1918-04-22

REPORTS AND PAPERS.

[Stage Direction]
Volume IV of the Report of the Auditor General for the fiscal year ended March 31st, 1917.-Sir Robert Borden.
Certain information in connection with Bill No. 53, relating to the Civil Service.- Sir Robert Borden.
Copy of Orders in Council in reference to appointment of Colonel Langton as Paymaster General in Militia Department.- Hon. Mr. Burreill.
Return showing what bluebooks have been printed during the years 1916 and 1917.- Hon. Mt. Burrell.

[Stage Direction]
Hon. C. J. DOHERTY (Minister of Justice) moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 65, to amend the Companies Act.
Mr. MURPHY:: Explain.


Hon. Mr. DOHERTY:: The amendment is to one of the sections of the Companies Act. That section requires that the original instruments creating mortgages and charges upon properties of the different companies concerned should be deposited with the Secretary of State. Several lawyers practising in the province of Quebec have called my attention to the fact that, inasmuch as in that province large numbers of these classes of deeds require for their validity to be executed notarially, it is not possible to comply with the provision of the statute as it now stands, the originals of the instruments, having, as is well known, to remain with the notary. The purpose of the amendment is to provide that in cases of that kind a notarially-certified copy of an authentic instrument of that nature may be deposited with the Secretary of State, and shall avail as the original for the purpose of the deposit.
There is also another amendrnent, to insert the word " hypothec." The section as it now stands provides for deeds of mortgage, etc. As in Quebec, many of these

charges are by hypothec, which is a different thing to a mortgage, it has been thought wise to insert the word " hypothec " also.
Motion agreed to and Bill read the first time.



NATURALIZATION ACT, 1914.

[Stage Direction]
(Correction of clerical error in French version.)
Charles Joseph Doherty: moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 66 to correct a clerical error in the French version of the Naturalization Act, 1914.
He said:	The purpose of the Bill is to
correct what upon its face is a manifest error in the translation. The section sought to be amended is one which provides that, where a person who is a British subject ceases by declaration of alienage or otherwise to be such British subject, any manor children of his, who by reason of his being a British subject are also British subjects, shall likewise cease to be British subjects. The English version makes an exception to that for the case where the minor child, by the ceasing of its parent to be a British subject, does not become under the law of any Other country a citizen of that other country. In that event, where that consequence does not follow, the child would remain a British subject. The English version itself is, perhaps, not very felicitously expressed, and it is probably in view of the form in which it is so expressed not to be wondered at that the error was made in the translation. The translation as it now reads makes a child cease to be a British subject, not unless he does not, but unless he does by the operation of the law of some other country in consequence of his parents ceasing to be British subjects, become a citizen of that country. It is, however precisely the other case that is desired to be excepted.


Hon. Mr. LEMIEUX (Translation):: Mr. Speaker, as the Bill is intended to correct a clerical error in the French wording of this Naturalization Act, would my honourable friend be kind enough to explain the proposed change in my mother tongue?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I have not here the statute in question, but I think that in comparing the clause as it now reads with the proposed amendment, the reason of this change will become moTe apparent; it will also be realized that this amendment is absolutely necessary in order

that the French version be in accordance with the provisions contained in: the English bill. The law we have passed here is exactly the same as the one voted by the Parliament of the United Kingdom, and the error I have mentioned has slipped into the French translation. To the general rule that, whenever the parent ceases to be a British subject, any minor children of his shall also cease to be British subjects, the Bill, as worded in English, mates exception in cases where the minor child, though its parent has ceased to be a British subject, has not become under the law of any other country a citizen of that other country, while the French text, as it is now in the statute book excepts the very oase where the child becomes a citizen of another country.
The purpose of that section is to conserve British citizenship to every child whose father ceased to be a British subject whenever, under the laws of the' country to which his father has emigrated, the said child has not become a citizen of that other country, and who, unless an exception were made in his behalf would lose thereby all citizenship. The proposed amendment reads as follows:
12. " Lorsqu'une personne, Ctant sujet britannique, cesse de l'etre par une declaration d'ex-tranCitC ou autrement, tout enfant mineur de cette personne cesse en meme temps d'etre sujet britannique, sauf dans le cas oil tel enfant ne devient pas, en vertu de la loi d'Un autre pays, par le fait que telle personne a cessC d'etre sujet britannique,, naturalise dans cet autre pays."
I admit, :Sir, that the translation is not of the nicest, but as the English wording is not itself very elegant, it was not possible for me to give a translation of it both correct and beautiful.


Mr. BUREAU (Translation):: The reference here is, no doubt, to countries that do not recognize the naturalization of minors?


Charles Joseph Doherty: Exactly.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to, and Bill read the first time.

[Stage Direction]
On the Orders of the Day:
Sir WILFRID LAURIER:: I have not observed that the new regulations with regard to the censorship of the press have been laid on the Table. If not, may I ask when they will be brought down?


Sir ROBERT BORDEN:: I understood that they had been brought down.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I laid them on the Table on Friday, I think.



PRIVATE BILLS.


[Stage Direction]
Bill No. 7, respecting The Canadian Indemnity Company.-Mr. Allan.
Bill No. 23, to incorporate Merchants Casualty Company.-Mr. Andrews.
Bill No. 6, respecting The Burrard Inlet Tunnel and Bridge Company.-Mr. Stevens.
Bill No. 34, respecting The Canadian Northern Ontario Railway Company.-Mr. Morphy.
Bill No. 10, to enable ihe Western Power Company of Canada, Limited, to own and operate the railway of the Western Canada Power Company, Limited.-Mr. Stacey.

[Stage Direction]
Bill No. 58, respecting certain patents of The Dynamic Balancing Machine Company. -Mr. Fripp.
Bill No. 5*9, to incorporate the Gospel Workers' Church in Canada.-Mr. Middle-bro.
Bill No. 60, to incorporate Montreal, Joliette and Transcontinental Junction Railway Company.-Mr. Denis.
Bill No. 61, respecting The Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo Railway Company-Mr. Stewart.

[Stage Direction]
[Questions answered orally are indicated by asterisks],

Mr. MacNUTT:: 1.	What is the total number of "draftees" under the 'Military Service Act," up to 1st of February, 1918?
2. How many were exempted for farm work?
3. How many were declared "medically unfit?"
4.	What disposition has been made of the "medically unfit?"
'Hon. Mr. DOHERTY: Some little time ago I asked if the hon. gentleman would be good enough to make somewhat clearer what he contemplated by the word " draftee." Does he mean those who have passed through the Military Service Act and who have been ordered to report, or does he mean men actually taken into the force, because his conception of the meaning of the word makes a difference both as to the answers that ought to be given

and as to the department that ought to answer the question?
Question stands.


TORONTO CENTRAL, POLICE BUREAU.
[Stage Direction]
Mr. CAiSGRAlIN:
1.	Is the Government aware of the fact that on or about the 29th of March, 1918, in the City of Toronto (Trinity Street), detectives of the Central Police Bureau searched and found a large consignment of firearms, revolvers, and swords?
2.	Has the Government taken any steps towards investigating this matter?
Charles Joseph Doherty: The Government lias no information. Inquiry is being made.


HARBOUR EXPENDITURES.
Mr. CROWE:: 1.	What has 'been the cost, respectively, of (a) dredging, (to) construction of wharves, (c) breakwaters, and (d) repairs, in connection with the Harbours of Halifax, N.S., St. John, N.B., Victoria, B.C., and Vancouver, B.C., since October, 1911, to the present date?
2.	What has been the total expenditure in connection with the construction and repairs of dry docks in the harbours of Halifax, N.S., and St. John, N.B.?


Hon. Mr. CARVELL:: This question, has been referred to my department, and it has, so far as my department is concerned, been answered, but certain expenditures by the Department of Marine and Fisheries have to be added to the answer.
Question stands.


MOTOR-BOATS FOR SALMON FISHING.
*Mr. LEMIEUX:: 1.	Is it the intention of the Government to pass legislation to compel motor-boats used for salmon fishing to be equipped with mufflers?
2.	Is the Government aware that motor-boats, as actually used, prevent salmon from getting in rivers to spawn?


Hon. Mr. BALLANTYNE:: 1.	Under consideration.
2.	No.


CLAIMS AGAINST CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY.
Mr. J. H. SINCLAIR:: Have any claims been preferred against the Government in connection with the C.N.R. that were not specified at the rate of purchase; if so, what is the gross amount of such claims ?


Hon. Mr. REID:: No.


MAJOR J. W. MARJESON.
Mr. POWER:: 1.	What position does Major J. W. Marjeson hold in the Department of Militia and Defence?
2.	What is his salary?
3.	Is any separation allowance drawn by any person on his account?
[Mr. Doherty.!
4.	What amounts were paid him during the months of November and December, 1917?
5.	What qualifications does he possess to justify him holding his present rank?
6.	What qualifying course has he followed in order to obtain that rank?
7.	By whom was he recommended for his
present position?	,


Hon. Mr. BURRELL:: 1.	President, Separation Allowance Board; Chairman, Refund Adjustment Board.
2.	Major in the Canadian Expeditionary Force, and is paid, in addition to pay and allowances of his rank, $1 per day extra duty pay and 80 cents per day .subsistence allowance.
3.	Yes, separation allowance is paid to his wife at Major's rate.
4.	Answered by No. 2. (He was on leave from November 20 to December 20).
5.	He was a Lieutenant in the 75th Regiment, having taken a course at Aldershot in 1910. He was appointed Paymaster 25th Battalion, C.E.F., with the rank of Captain, and, after 18 months' service overseas and in Canada, was given the rank of Major. Under P. C. 447 constituting the Separation Allowance Board, the President must be a returned soldier, a Field Officer and a person having legal knowledge.
6.	Answered by No. 5.
7.	By the then Accountant and Paymaster-General.


JAS. STARRATT MARSHALL.
Mr. POWER:: 1.	Has there been since August, 1914, a person named Jas. Starratt Marshall, of Spa Springs, Annapolis county, in the Active Militia of Canada?
2.	If not, when did he leave the service?
3.	If so, when did he join the service, and what has been i;is occupation?
4.	What amount has he received during the period in which he was employed?
5.	Has the Government any information as to whether or not whilst in the service he carried on the work of launidryman either In his public or private capacity?
6.	If in the former capacity, what extra pay did he receive?


Hon. Mr. BURRELL:: When the horn,
gentleman asked this question the other day, the minister suggested' that if the hon. gentleman would give further information, he might 'be able to .answer the question. The hon. gentleman has not yet given any further information.
Question stands*.


EAST OACOUNA WHARF.
*Mr. GAUVREAU:: 1.	Does the Minister of Public Works know that the wharf, which was constructed at East Cacouna in spite of much local opposition, is

an obstruction to light-craft navigation and is of no public usefulness whatever?
2.	If not, is it the Minister's intention to investigate the matter with a view to avoiding needless expense in connection with said wharf in the future?
lion-. Mr. CARVELL:	No, and nothing
in the departmental records show that there was opposition to the construction of the work. The District Engineer states wharf is not an obstruction to- light-craft navigation, but is of public usefulness by providing a landing at high tide for small craft crossing from upper end of Notre Dame des Sept Douleurs.
CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY SHARES.	'


Mr. PAPINEAU:: Has the Government acquired the five-sixths of all the shares of the Canadian Northern Railway as authorized by chapter 24 of the Statutes of 1917? If so, when?


John Dowsley Reid: Yes, as of October 1, 1917.


ORPINGTON MILITARY HOSPITAL.
Mr. PAPINEAU:: 1.	Does the Government contribute to the maintenance of the Ontario Military Hospital at Orpington?
2.	If so, to what extent?
3.	Is there any agreement or contract to that effect? If so, what is it?


Hon. Mr. BURRELL (for Major-General Mewburn):: 
HIGH COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE, LONDON.
Louis Joseph Papineau: At page ZZ-227 of the Auditor General's Report for the year ending March 31, 1916, we find that the sum of 3367,443.39 was advanced by the High Commissioner's Office to the Chief Paymaster, London, and that said sum is a balance of advances unaccounted for.
1. Has an account of said advances been rendered since the Report of the Auditor General was tabled?
2.	If not, has the Government endeavoured to obtain such an account justifying or explaining the disposition of said amount?
3.	Who was in charge of the High Commissioner's Oflice, at London, during the fiscal year ending March 31, 1916?


Hon. Mr. BURRELL (for Major-General Mewburn):: 1.	Yes; accounting will appear in the Auditor General's Report, year ending March 31, 1917, which is now in hands of the printer.
2.	Answered by No. 1.
3.	Sir George Perley, acting High Commissioner for Canada. Mr. W. L. Griffiths, secretary.


SICKNESS OF SOLDIERS ON LEAVE.
Mr. CURRIE:: 1.	What steps have been taken to establish a safe routine for dealing with the numerous eases ef sickness of soldiers while on leave?
2.	Has the Government in contemplation the extending of any compensation to the families that have suffered by the lack of such a system?


Hon. Mr. REID (for Major-General Mewburn) :: 1.	In the General Instructions concerning hospitals immediately to be issued, the following appears-:
"No Officer, N.C.O. or man will be treated at his own home, but will be transferred under the direction and supervision of a Medical Officer to a Military Hospital, except when, in the opinion of his medical attendant, it will be unwise to move him."
2.	No, but individual cases receive consideration as they arise.


FOOD CONTROL DEPARTMENT EXPENSES.
John Howard Sinclair: What was the cost of operating the Department of Food Control, including salaries, temporary employment, travelling expenses, services of all kinds, equipment, rent, etc., from the date on which the Branch was organized up to December 31, 1917?


Hon. Mr. CRERAR:: 


EDITORIAL COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL PUBLICATIONS.
Mr. SEGUIN:: 1.	Who composed the Editorial Committee respecting the Printing of Public Documents?
2.	How many persons form this Committee, and of what nationality are they?
3.	What are the duties and salary of each person?


Sir GEORGE FOSTER:: 1.	Fred. Cook, assistant King's Printer; F. C. T. O'Hara, Deputy Minister of Trade and Commerce; F. C. C. Lynch, Superintendent, Natural Resources' Intelligence Branch, Department of the Interior.
2.	Answered by No. 1. Mr. Cook, English-born, but has been a resident of Canada for thirty-six years; Mr. O'Hara, Canadian-born; Mr. Lynch, Canadian-born.
3.	The duties of the aforementioned, in addition to the duties of their respective offices, are to consider all reports and publications of various kinds submitted by the various Government departments to the King's- Printer, with a view to eliminating as far as possible the publication of what is considered unnecessary from the standpoint of economy both as regards the cost of printing and distribution of public documents. In general, to carry out the wishes of Parliament as expressed- in the report of the Joint Committee of both Houses on the printing of Parliament, presented on September 12, 1917.
The members of the Editorial Committee have not been paid any remuneration for their services as members of such committee.
Their salaries for their regular duties are as follows: Mr. Cook, $4,000; Mr. O'Hara, $5,000; Mr. Lynch, $2,700.


*Mr. CURRIE:: According to an Order in Council recently submitted to the House, provision is made for the appointment of an Editorial Committee, which works under a Sub-committee of Council of which the Minister of Trade and Commerce is Chairman, such a Committee having been recommended by the Joint Committee on Printing last Session. Has the Right Honourable Minister any report to submit to the House on the operation of this Editorial Committee?


Sir GEORGE FOSTER:: The report is now being prepared and will be laid on the Table in the future.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS.

Mr. CURRIE:: 1.	What are the names of all persons employed in connection with the work of preparing the Votes and Proceedings, the Order Paper and the Journals of the House, (a) in English, and (b) in French, and the salary and other remuneration paid to each?
2.	What number of each of these documents are printed, (a) in English, and (b) in French, and the cost of printing and binding the same for the fiscal year ending the 31st of March, 1918?


Mr. CURRIE:: 1.	What are the names otf all- persons employed, in connection with the work of -reporting and translating in the House?
2.	How long has each been so employed?
3.	What is the rate of remuneration paid to each during the past year, with the total amount paid to each class of persons?
4.	What number of copies of the Debates of the House have been printed during the past year, (a) in English, and (b) in French, specifying the number of the unrevised and of the revised editions, respectively?
5.	What is the cost of printing and binding the same for each year since 1900, inclusive?
6.	What are the amounts paid in addition to the above, in each year since 1900, inclusive, for (a) reporting, (ib) translating, (c) typewriting, and (d) printing proceedings before Parliamentary Committees?


Mr. McMASTER:: What amounts have been paid by the Government for printing or advertising to the Globe, Toronto, and the Devoir, Montreal, during each of the fiscal years ending March 31, 1915, 1916, 1917 and 1918.



FEDERAL ELECTION DOCUMENT.

Wilfrid Laurier: For a copy of envelopes Nos. 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 39, 53, 5-6, -59, and- 99, polling booth No. 9, Barracks of St. Johns, Quebec, used in the Federal Election of 117th December last and placed in -Military bag -No. 446 of the North American Continent Military Votes. Also, a copy of the envelopes Numbers 6-5 and TO, polling booth No. 4, Barracks of St. Johns, Quebec, usedi. in the Federal Election of 17th December -last, and' placed in -Military bag Number 451 of the North American Continent Military Votes.


Thomas Foster: Stand.


Wilfrid Laurier: Might we have some explanation why this motion is allowed to stand?


Charles Joseph Doherty: My colleague asked that this motion be allowed to stand, because it will be necessary to look into the effect of it. I do not want to say at the present moment that the papers cannot be brought down, but I would point out this: In order to

produce the copies which the hon. member is asking for, it will be necessary to withdraw the documents referred to from the sealed packages in which they are contained in the custody of the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery. Now, all the provisions which are contained in the statute with regard to these documents convey the idea that these seals are not to be broken except upon an order for a recount, when they would be broken by the judge or in his presence, and after he has done with the papers he would be bound to seal them up again. There is also provision for the production of documents of this kind upon the order of a court when there is some proceeding pending before that court in which these documents are necessary evidence, or when there is a petition in contestation of an election pending before such court. In these cases, provision is made for an order of the court for the production of these documents, which involves, of course, the breaking of the seals, and that is done in the presence of the court. The law prescribes that in such cases the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery shall obey such an order of the court, but it specifically orders him, when he receives these election documents, which are under seal, to retain them for a period of one year and then destroy them, unless within that period there has been contestation of an election, in which event he is to retain them for a year subsequent to the decision of the contestation.	_
There is also a specific provision in the Dominion Elections Act-it is true, it mentions ballot papers only, because then there was no question of envelopes of .this kind-that none of these ballot papers are to be inspected by anybody while they are in the possession of the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery. So, as I read the statute, the duty of the Clerk of tlfe Crown in Chancery is to keep those sealed packages sealed, subject to their production upon an order of a competent court, which order is to be made only when there is some proceeding before that court in which these documents may be necessary. For the moment, I do not think it is necessary to go into The question whether Parliament might be included as being a court in a proper case, but I would point out that there is absolutely no proceeding pending before Parliament in which it is made to appear that these documents are required. The motion is simply to procure copies of these documents-I have no doubt for some proper purpose-and it seems to me we should
look more closely into the effect of the motion before passing it.


Wilfrid Laurier: I will ask the hon. member for Chambly and Vercheres (Mr. Arehambault) to read the minister's explanation.



UNOPPOSED MOTIONS FOR PAPERS.

Mr. J. E. SINCLAIR:: For a return giving an abstract of all claims, with the names of the claimants and the amount of each claim filed against the Department of Railways and Canals, on account of the freezing of shipments o>f potatoes on the Prince Edward Island Railway or on the docks at Charlottetown, Pictou, Summerside and Point du Chene, during the year 1916. Also a return giving the same information for the year 1917, including the above-named1 railway and docks, the New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island' Railway and the dock at Port Borden.


John Ewen Sinclair: For a return giving an abstract of all claims, with the names of the claimants and the amount of each claim, made against the Department of Railways and Canals for breakage and pilferage on the Prinoe Ediward' Island Railway in 1917.



ALIEN LABOUR IN CANADA.


Mr. SPEAKER:: The first resolution on the Order Paper is one by the hon. member for Comox-Albemi (Mr. Clements) dealing with alien labour in Canada. Before putting the motion, I may say that to prevent unnecessary overlapping, it has been deemed advisable to join the discussion on resolutions Nos. 4 (Mr. Clements); 18, Mr. W. F. Miaclean (South YoTk), and 20, Mr. Nicholson (East Algoma). While they are not exactly similar, there is sufficient similarity between them to enable discussion to take place on the one resolution, which I believe meets with the approval of the movers of the respective motions.


Mr. H. S. CLEMENTS (Comox and AI-berni) moved:: That, in the opinion of this House, all the regulations and Orders in Council respecting Alien labour in Canada should be consolidated into one uniform law but that in framing such legislation due regard should be had to the local conditions and needs of the different parts of the Dominion.
He said: (Mr. Speaker, in rising to propose the resolution which stands in my name, I think I need offer no apology for taking up the time of the House unnecessarily. I am not a new member and I should regret at

any time bringing to the attention of the House a question which I did not deem to be of paramount interest to the country at large. Unfortunately, a good many members do take up time unnecessarily in the discussion of subjects which do not fall within that category. The question which I am going to bring forward, as the resolution itself indicates, deals with the alien situation in. Canada. I think that question is a most important one and that it merits every consideration possible from the Government, especially from a strong Union Government, who should deal with the situation with an iron hand.
Shortly after the elections in December last I drew the attention of the minister representing the province of British Columbia, and of my fellow-members from that province to the alien situation as regards western Canada, and more especially the province of British Columbia, which I have the honour to represent, a very large territory, and in each and every ease I received in reply a'very sympathetic letter practically agreeing to the programme which I proposed. Now, Mr. Speaker, as far as I am personally concerned, I desire something more than personal sympathy, I want action taken as regards the alien situation in this country, and especially in western Canada. I might say at the outset that the Order in Council brought down a few days ago by the Prime Minister, dealing with idleness in the Dominion, to some extent meets the object of my resolution, hut I must frankly state that that Order in Council will not be worth the paper it is written on unless it is carried out with a strong iron hand, not by any commission, but by the best police authority that can: possibly be obtained. To my mind to entrust its enforcement to a commission' would not meet the situation at all; there have been too many useless commissions appointed in the past. I believe that one good business man, in a good many cases, would have given better service and accomplished far more than some of these commissions have done. The main purpose of my resolution, and the advice I wish to offer to the, Government and to the country, is, that whether you take a census of the man-power of Canada or not, and I believe that is very essential, it is imperative that an absolute census should be taken of every alien in Canada, regardless of their sex and regardless of their nationality or their holdings in Canada. If that were done it would show, in

my opinion, that there are in this country very disturbing elements, a fact which this Government does not adequately realize, but which calls for strong and prompt 'action on the part of the present Union Government. If such action were taken by the Government it would show that they mean business, and it would inspire the .alien element to which I refer with greater respect for Canadian citizenship, greater respect for the institutions of the country, and a greater appreciation of the magnificent means of livelihood which they can command at any time in the Dominion. In the second place, it would be of the very greatest advantage to the present Government, or to subsequent incoming administration in this respect: They would be in a position to know what kind of immigration should be admitted into this country in the future; for I am bound to say that in the past the Federal Government has been by far too lax with respect to this subject. Greater precautions, in my humble judgment, should be adopted in the Dominion with respect to the admission of immigrants, and if a census is taken .such as I am now proposing it will be very advantageous not only at the present time, but in the future, as regards immigration. I must say that I appreciate the difficulties, not only of an international nature but otherwise, of conscripting the many thousands of aliens who are within the borders of Canada to-day. I listened with a great deal of attention to the Prime Minister's remarks last week when he referred to the thousands of Belgians who have been conscripted by Germany in the interest of that country and the maintenance of her industries. Personally, I see no reason why every alien enemy in the Dominion should not be conscripted and placed at work doing something for the State, instead of being allowed to run at large as disloyal aliens and pro-Germans are now doing to the disadvantage of Canada. I would not go so far as to say that any aliens should be conscripted and placed in the firing line, or conscripted at $1.10 a day for labour purposes. I think that due regard should 'be had at all times to labour conditions and to the views of the labour organizations of this country. I believe in the organization of labour just as much as I believe in the organization of capital, but I also hold that both of them should he reasonable in their demands. 1 believe the enemy aliens in Canada should be conscripted and put to work and given a fair wage for the sustenance of themselves

and families, .and that the 'balance of their wages, due regard being paid to the -value of their labour, should be taken and applied *for the benefit of the State, or for some fund to be devoted towards ameliorating the conditions of our gallant soldiers who have returned incapacitated from the front. That is my view so far as alien labour is concerned.
I have heard many people make the argument, including several sound business men, in connection with what may be termed the shortage of labour in this country, that the importation of fifty thousand or one hundred thousand coolie labourers from China should be permitted. I am absolutely opposed to any such idea, and I see no reason -for it. So far as the development of our national industries, or the acceleration of the production of food stuffs is concerned, if the present strong Union Government take hold of the situation, as I think they ought to do, and properly distribute the available labour, whether it be male or female, and put the new Military Act into proper effect, I believe that ample labour will be found to take care of our industries and to meet all our requirements in the way of increased food production.
There is a very large element in this Dominion who, up to the present time, have apparently not realized the seriousness of this war or the obligations of their citizenship. I refer now, not to aliens, but to our own red-blood'ed citizens, to those who are loyal Britishers, but who do not appear to realize the gravity of the situation. Possibly bom with silver spoons in their mouths and possessing bank accounts, they have shown little, if any, appreciation of the duty whlich devolves upon them of doing something in the interest of the country and! of the allied cause. Because they have a bank account, or are otherwise favoured by fortune, that is no reason why they should go. Scot free. I believe that every man from the age of twenty to sixty, including the class that I refer to, if he is not already in service should be conscripted' and made, if necessary, to don a pair of overalls and cotton shirt and drive a binder or a plough on the prairies in order to bring about greater production. That is what I would recommend in so far as that particular class is concerned.
With reference to the conscription of labour, there is no doubt that in British Columbia the lumber and other interests have made very serious complaints about the labour situation. There would be no
serious shortage of lumber in British Columbia but for the activities of alien enemy, pro-German, agitators who are creating disturbances in the different camps and at the different mills. Their propaganda is assisted by the fact that the mill owners have been endeavouring to keep the country a white man's country and not to employ Asiatio labour. A mill owner will get a crew together and at great expense will transport that crew from. Vancouver or Prince Albert to a mill 100 or 300 miles distant. Shortly after the men have reached their destination one of these enemy alien agitators will appear on the scene and' make demands upon the employer that cannot be granted. The result is that the mill is closed down. If time permitted I could give the House absolute evidence of instances in whlich agitators have appeared and, when questioned about their nationality, claimed to be Russians or Italians, when as a matter of fact they were Austrians. This element, and there are only a few hundreds of thousands of them in this country, ought to receive the attention of this Government. They ought 4 p.m. to be compelled to assume the duties of citizens of this country whose protection and liberty they enjoy. I want to be absolutely fair in my remarks in regard to these people. I am speaking with particular reference to the situation in Northern British Columbia, because I know the conditions there better than I know them as they exist in the prairie provinces, but I assume that the situation I am discussing is somewhat similar all over the Dominion. There are thousands of Austrians in Northern British Columbia who are working in the large plants there, who realize their position as aliens and who are absolutely peaceful and harmless. They are not doing any harm, but they are doing their best to develop our natural resources and to promote the Allied cause. Therefore, I have nothing to say against that peaceful element in this country. But, if this Government are not strong enough to deal with the element to which I have particularly referred, who are agitators, German sympathizers, and, in fact, just as much proGerman as the Kaiser is, then it is not worthy of the support that it got from the people of this country. I care not whether the reason advanced for not dealing with these people be international law or not; I say that the time has arrived, in the great stress of this war, when international law might very well be forgotten, and when even the Act of Confederation might be over-

looked, if necessary, to meet the situation. The situation is not what it has been in the past and changed circumstances call for extraordinary remedies.
As far as the distribution of labour is concerned, there are in British Columbia large Austrian, Italian and other elements who are naturally railroad builders and who could be very well conscripted and brought to the prairie provinces, or any other provinces, of this Dominion to repair the roadbeds which are so necessary to meet the transportation needs of the country and to help in winning the war.
I regret to 'have to refer to the province of Quebec. I would like to say personally that I was brought up with French Canadians and I have always had the highest regard for many of them, although I must confess that because of the recent attitude of Quebec I have not had the same regard for them as I had in the past. We heard the right hon. the leader of the Opposition (Sir Wilfrid Laurier) the other day pleading the cause of Quebec and telling us why the men of Quebec had not enlisted as we had expected they would do. I see no reason why 20,000-yes-75,000 French Canadians, with their narrow farms, 100 yards wide in some instances, should not be conscripted, taken to British Columbia and placed in their natural element, the lumberwoods. Whether this be done under the Military Service Act or not, I mean to suggest that their work should be done under military supervision and that they should be employed in the production of spruce lumber particularly, which is so important from the aeroplane point of view and therefore important to the allied cause. If 75,000 French Canadians in the province of Quebec were conscripted, taken into the province of British Columbia and kept there for six months or a year,-1 believe that when they returned to Quebec they would be better citizens and would educate the balance of that province.
At every meeting I had the honour of addressing throughout that great country that I have the honour of representing, two paramount questions were put to me. There was represented in thoise- meetings the red blood of both the former political parties, and they united in supporting me as the candidate of the Union Government. One point these people insisted on was that this Government should deal with a strong hand with the alien enemies I have referred to. The second was. that each province, in so far as the enforcement of the Military Service Act was concerned, should be stand-
CMr. Clements.!
ardized and should give its quota according to its population. I am here to advocate that and to do my utmost to carry it out regardless of whether the Government of the day sees, fit to do it or not.
Speaking for the northern part of British Columbia, I desire to say that the red blood of that country responded to the country's call irrespective of the Military Service Act. Every available naan coming within that category enlisted voluntarily and, I regret to say, in. many cases, made the supreme sacrifice. They came forward without any hesitation and offered themselves for their country's cause and the cause of civilization. If time permitted, I could point to dozens, and dozens of men fifty-five and sixty years of age who gave a wrong age so that they might get to the front and do their duty.
But I sayit is galling indeed to thefathers, mothers and daughters of those who so gallantly responded to the colours, to see these seditious elements surrounding them at every point on that coast, watching and waiting like a hawk watches a bird, to take advantage of the positions that these gallant men filled before they left for the front, waiting to swoop down upon every fishing or other privilege that they enjoyed. On several occasions I have brought these matters to the attention of the officers of the Government, and have referred to these seditious elements who. are always skating as close as possible to the thin ice so as to avoid arrest. Finally, some one would plead that he was a naturalized Canadian, it may be an Austrian living in our country as a naturalized citizen. The officials have told me that, under those conditions, it was impossible to deal with such individuals owing to their being naturalized. Well, Sir, if we have not the machinery to deal with them, it is high time that the Government instituted some machinery. There are thousands upon thousands in this country who should be dealt with with an iron hand.
Now, that is about all I have to say upon the subject. I hope that the few moments I have occupied this afternoon, in my feeble way, will give a great deal of food for thought to this Government in their efforts to deal with this very grave situation. The leader of the Opposition the other day invited the solution of the problem of unison in this Dominion. He was referring at that time to the difficulties between the provinces of Ontario and Quebec. It is all right to carry out an obligation, whether it be a private note or an international pledge, but, as I men-

tioned in my opening remarks, these are not times of peace, these are strenuous times for the Empire and the Dominion. While I am not speaking for the Government, I will say in conclusion, that if I had the power placed in my hands by the Almighty this afternoon, 1 would give my hen. friend the leader of the Opposition the solution for unison in this Dominion, which will be for the best interests of 'Canada in the future whether in one province or another. Ilf I had it in my power from the Almighty this afternoon, I would say this, Mr. Speaker: Before the clock tolled twelve to-night, I would institute in this country one flag, one school and one language.


Mr. R. C. COOPER (South Vancouver):: Mr. Speaker, as a new member of this House I rise with due humility to support the resolution moved 'by. the hon. member for Comox-Alberni (Mr. Clements). If there was an apology necessary, it is absolutely done away with by a date to be found on that calendar behind your back. On that date, three years ago, our men made history for Canada at Ypres. To-day, I find an attempt, supported from Halifax to Vancouver by every branch of the Great War Veterans' Association, by many manufacturers, by many other associations, an I by many independent men and women, to bring the enemy alien under some control. On this subject .1 wrote on the 11th April to the right hon. leader of the Government, asking if he would give me an expression of the intention of the Government on this matter. I have not yet received an answer. On March 26th, a petition was handed to the Prime Minister and the Government by the Great War Veterans' Association of Canada. I propose to read this to the House, and it will show what these men ask for.
March 26, 1918.
To the Right Honourable
Sir Robert L. Borden, P.C., K.C.M.G.,
Prime Minister, Ottawa.
Sir,-
May it please you to hear and give consideration to the humble petition of this gathering of representatives of the Great War Veterans' Association of Canada, -which follows:
Whereas there are in Canada a great number . of people of alien origin.
Therefore be it resolved that it is our opinion that the aliens of enemy origin in our midst should be employed in work of (National importance or in industries essential to the winning of the War, under proper surveillance, and their employer for the time being made responsible for them; and that their earnings over and above an amount equal to the pay and allowances -of a Canadian soldier be taken by the Government for War purposes: or, failing their
being employed that such alien enemies be interned.
Further that measures be taken at once to make the Military Service Act applicable to all allied aliens in the same manner and to the same extent as to the citizens of Canada, either by negotiating the necessary treaties or conventions with the remaining Allied countries, upon similar lines or the same as those provided for in the conventions recently adopted between the United States of America and Great Britain, or, failing the obtaining of such treaties or conventions, that such allied aliens be forthwith given the option of enlisting voluntarily in the Canadian Forces, or being deported to their country of origin as is being done by the Government of the United States under the Alien Slacker Bill just passed- by an overwhelming majority in the House of Representatives at Washington.
Further that no steps should be taken to call out the second or other class under the Military Service Act, or to return to France married men of the First Contingent, C.E.F., until the question of the disposition of the aliens has been settled in a manner satisfactory to the citizens of Canada, and that we urge the Government to take up -and deal with these questions without further delay.
I would say, Sir, that the Government failed to take any notice of these representations. In my own province of British Columbia, there have been large mass meetings held for the purpose of making the Government at least look into this matter, if it does nothing else. To-day, in British Columbia alone, we have a matter of more than 60,000 enemy aliens, who are practically allowed their liberty, who can do as they like, and over whom there is no control. I ask you to-day, with our young men going overseas to defend our shores in France, what is our position going to be if these aliens are left in practically uncontrolled freedom? lit- is not possible that we may have a repetition of the scenes enacted in Northern France, in Flanders, in Serbia, in Montenegro and in Northern Italy? It is possible. It may not be likely, but I commend it to the attention of the Government. What has been done to handle this question? I noticed in a paper the other day that it was proposed to form a garrison battalion. Presumably that is the only way they could be handled. Some of our industries in British Columbia, notably the railways and the mines, are practically controlled by enemy aliens of Austrian or German origin. -
These men have absolute liberty, and they earn anywhere from $4 to $10 or $12 a day. What do they contribute to the country? How do they help the country to carry on this war, which was saddled upon us by their own people? Absolutely nothing. In a few cases they have been persuaded, I believe, to subscribe to war loan, but war



loan is a good investment. If these men, particularly those in the coal mines, feel it incumbent upon them to work and earn a nice, daily wage, they do so. On the other hand, if they want to play baseball or go out into the woods on a sunny day, they do so. They care nothing about the fact that the people of Eastern Canada and the prairies are waiting for coal to keep them from freezing.
The Government has 'an anti-loafer law. What penalty does it provide? One hundred dollars and costs, or in default, six months' imprisonment with hard labour. Such a penalty may be all right for men of British birth, but it is not all right for the type of men who work in the mines and on the railways in British Columbia. These men have been taught from their earliest infancy that only by force can they get what they want, and I submit that they should be controlled by force. If six months is the penalty for offences against the anti-loafer law, then I think that in order to deal with the enemy aliens we must have a much more severe penalty than that. What is the penalty in Germany? It does not start at a minimum and work up to a maximum; it starts at a maximum and works down to a minimum. But the maximum penalty in Germany with our prisoners, is death, and I see no reason why the enemy alien here in Canada, should not, under similar conditions., be forced to pay that penalty if necessary.
As a reason for not handling this situation the Government say: we have an agreement with the labour unions of this country. Only last Friday the Prime Minister, when he was giving certain figures of enlistment, said that 227,000 skilled and unskilled labourers had gone overseas. These men from the labour unions who have gone to fight are surely entitled to some sort of consideration when they come back. To-day the ranks of labour are full of enemy alieus. I venture to say that at least one-third of the total membership of the labour unions in Canada consists of enemy aliens or aliens of neutral countries. Labour represents in Canada some 200,000 men. The number of men that Canada has so far sent overseas is 364,750. The balance, therefore, is as two to one, and I submit that the men who have gone overseas are more entitled to attention and consideration from the Government than those who remain behind to work and earn big wages.
It may be suggested that if we insist on enemy aliens in this country working, our

prisoners of war may be badly treated, or worse treated than they are now. I have under my hand a letter which I received this morning from the father of one of my men who was taken prisoner at Ypres three years ago the day after to-morrow. He says:
Now as regards the hoy. We have received a picture of him a few days ago, and a letter was the first in which he really made a murmur, and that was only, "Believe me, my chum and I have (fei-tainiy been through the mill." He looked pretty good, a little hard round the mouth but still as "straight as a die." The poor lad with him looked terribly ill.
This boy of nineteen, who went over with me, had no hard lines about his mouth when I saw him three years ago, but he has to-day. If you say that any action on our part to deal with enemy aliens in this country will affect our Canadian prisoners of war, you forget that Canadians in Germany cannot be subjected to greater indignity than that to which they are now subjected; that no more insults could be heaped upon them; that they could not be more starved than they are to-day. Their position, therefore, cannot be made easier by our being lenient with enemy aliens in this country. Our men in Germany to-day are earning thirty pfennings a day for their work. Thirty pfennings amounts to threepence- six cents-and the enemy alien in Canada, who has absolute liberty, earns $3, $4, $5, $10, $14 a day, and he does not care a snap of his finger about our authority.
Then, the Hague Convention. What is the Hague Convention? It has meant a good deal to the Allied powers; what has it meant to the Teutonic powers? Nothing at all. The Prime Minister on Friday mentioned the deportations from Lille; he spoke of the women who were sent back of the German lines in France. Yes, and I can tell you of a monument that has been raised at Bac St. Maur, a place now in the hands of the Germans, to the memory of four women of France who in 1914 were raped by the Germans; they were then covered with gasoline and burned. That is possible in Canada if we allow these enemy aliens uncontrolled freedom.
In my country, in the fisheries especially, we have many Scandinavians. Well, there are Scandinavians and Scandinavians. We* know that the Norwegians are friendly to us; they are more likely to help us than anything else. But what of the Swedes? These men are openly antagonistic to us; yet they go round filling our men's places and giving nothing in return for the liberty that is accorded to them. On Friday the leader of the Opposition denounced auto-

cracy in no uncertain tones. That may be all right from the standpoint of the citizen, but as a soldier I say that as long as this war continues, long live autocracy. It is the only way you can conduct a war. Think what would happen if, when an officer commanding a division gave an order, his brigadiers and officers consulted whether they should obey the order or not. Take the case of Russia. Russia consulted the people as to what she would do in the war-and look at her to-day.
I wish, in conclusion, to quote from the Prime Minister's speech on Friday last these great words:
As to our duty, the first line of defence Is held in Prance and Flanders; the second line of defence is here. Will those in the second line desert and betray the first? If such an outcome were possible, it would be to the everlasting disgrace of the Canadian people. Only those who have been among the men in the fighting line can realize with what faith and confidence the Canadian soldiers rely upon us for that aid and support which are their due; only those who have been among them can realize how intense a bitterness and disappointment would possess their souls if that aid should fail them. I beg you to remember that in this country we are all in one sense in the battle-line; that we must all discharge our duty with the same indomitable spirit as those who are holding back the German onset. May we not estimate that duty in the words of a great Frenchman: "Life was not intended as either a pleasure or a sorrow, but as a great duty committed to our charge and which we are bound to carry on and fulfil by the standards of honour." If -that is true of the individual life, is it not equally true of the national life? What we inherit from the past we hold in trust for the future; let us see to it then that Canada's honour is maintained and her escutcheon kept untarnished to the end.
Those are great words; but what are the feelings of our 364,000 men who have gone overseas if they know that here in Canada there will be no room for them when they do come back; that the enemy alien is protected in every way, and that the enemy alien and the neutral alien hold the fat jobs? Will they not feel that, although the Government have courageously enforced the Military Service Act and sent men overseas to aid them in the fighting line, they have been deserted in their home life, in regard to which they are entitled to some consideration just as they are entitled to be reinforced? The Government should seriously consider this question. There must be some means whereby the Government can control the present practically uncontrolled liberties of the enemy alien in Canada. There must be some means whereby the Government can make those enemy aliens contribute something towards the
62J
cost of the war which is being waged against us by the country of their birth. The Government should grapple with this matter without delay, because the people cf Canada, and, more especially, the people of the West of Canada, are tired of procrastination, and must insist on the Government dealing immediately with this question.


Rodolphe Lemieux: Mr. Speaker, I have listened with some surprise to the speech delivered by my hon. friend from Comox-Albemi (Mr. Clemente). I have followed his career since he entered thie House many years ago. He disappeared for a while. He left his good old county of Kent and went West. He followed the advice of the great American editor, "Go West, young man;" but I am sorry that, in coming back East, he has brought with him. very strange notions in regard to the unity of this country. At first sight, the object of hie motion is very commendable:
That, in the opinion of this House, all the regulations and Orders in Council respecting Alien Labour in Canada should be consolidated into one uniform law but that in framing such legislation due regard should be had to the local conditions and needs of the different parts of the Dominion.
The last portion of the motion could not be understood had the House not heard the comments made 'by my hon, friend, but the first portion of his motion is commendable. When the hon. gentleman undertakes to state how the enemy alien should be treated, he goes a little too far. The enemy alien must, in Canada as elsewhere, be treated according to ithe tenets of international law. No one is above international law, and no civilized country which took part in- the Hague convention in 1908 is above the regulations which were framed there by the representatives of those civilized nations.


John Allister Currie: What about Germany
and Austria?


Rodolphe Lemieux: Germany is without the pale of civilization. M.y hon. friend (Mr. Clements), I am sorry to say, discards international law. So did Bethmann Holl-weg, Chancellor of Germany, when, in 1914, he said to the British Ambassador that the treaty, which was binding on England, France, Russia and Germany, was a mere scrap of paper. When again the German Chancellor said: "Necessity knows no law," and "We must hack our way through," he was doing exactly what m.y hon. friend stated a moment ago-he was discarding

international law. He was speaking the same language as my hon. friend from Comox-Albemi. My hon. friend' from North Simcoe (Mr. Currie) interrupts me by saying:	Wlhat about Germany? What about
Austria? A British soldier speaking in that way! Germany committed the awful murder of Edith Cavell and that of Captain Fryatt. Would my hon. friend say that it would be right for England to follow Germany's example.


John Allister Currie: No.


Rodolphe Lemieux: No, it would not toe right for England to follow Germany's example.


John Allister Currie: My hon. friend cannot
quote from the Hague convention any clause dealing with aliens. He is setting up a straw man and arguing from that. I should like him to quote the clause.


Rodolphe Lemieux: I listened to my hon. friend (Mr. 'Clements) and I heard him state to the House that as regards our treatment of aliens he made light of international law, because Germany knew no international law. My -answer is, that just because Germany is putting herself without the pale of civilization, Canada, being a civilized country, should not imitate Germany. We have, unfortunately, in Canada some people who are bound to out-Prussian the Prussians. The War-time Elections Act, passed by Parliament last year, was a Prussian act, nothing more and nothing less.
iSome hon. MEMBERS: Order.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Take it back.


Rodolphe Lemieux: There are sitting on the other side of the House gentlemen who stated it a few days ago.


John Allister Currie: I rise to a point of order, lit is not the first time that an hon. member has been expelled from the House of Commons for reflecting discredit upon the House of Commons, and I say that the hon. gentleman, in the manner in which he has stated his opinion in regard to the War-times Elections Act, is reflecting discredit upon this House, and he should be asked to take it back.


Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER:: Order. I
hardly consider the point of order well taken. I did not judge from the expression used by the hon. member that he intended to reflect any discredit upon the House of Commons. If he did so, he should, of course, take it back.


Rodolphe Lemieux: Last year, Sir, the Government disfranchised the Galicians who,

although they came from Austria, were far from sympathetic with the Central Empires. The Galicians Should not have been deprived of their right to exercise the franchise as they came to Canada, they, the victims of the Austrians in Europe, solely to enjoy here the freedom which they had been denied for centuries under the Austrian flag. That is what I meant a moment 'ago when I qualified the War-time Election's1 Act as being nothing else but a. Hunnish and Kaiser-li'ke measure.


Mr. ARTHURS:: Will the hon. gentleman allow me a question?


Rodolphe Lemieux: No. Mr. Speaker, not
the hon. gentleman. My hon. friend from Comox-Albemi (Mr. Clements) has spoken, about the aliens, but he forgot to refer to the Japanese. Surely he should know that the Tories of British Columbia at the election of 1908 made the same splash over the Japanese as my hon. friend has made this afternoon, and that they were elected on the slogan of " A white British Columbia." Will my hon. friend tell me whether the Japanese are still coming to British Columbia? Will he not admit that his friends in British Columbia were wrong in advocating ithat drastic policy in 1908, if he remembers that at the beginning of this war the coasit of British Columbia, which is the coast of Canada, was protected by Japanese warships? My hon. friend, who, I am sorry to say would make a poor diplomat, when speaking of aliens referred to the French Canadians, of course. In the minds of many, naturally, the French Canadians are but aliens. I do not know how many centuries ago the forebears of my hon. friend came to Canada, but I do know that every (French (Canadian can claim three hundred1 years of ancestry in .Canada; so, for any one to refer to French Canadians as aliens, is simply to display his ignorance or his fanaticism.


Herbert Sylvester Clements: I wish to correct my hon. friend. I did not refer to the French Canadians as aliens at all, but referred to the unpatriotic sentiments of the French Canadians, and 1 still stick to that.


Rodolphe Lemieux: rear. That description of the wonderful way in which every part of that machinery worked, just like one well oiled machine, could not help but grip one, so to apeak, with the efficiency of the organization. The thought that struck me was that we have so far failed to carry our supporting lines back far enough; and I say to you, Sir, and to this House, that those supporting lines will not be carried back far enough until they are extended to the most remote farm, mine and factory in the farthest comer of Canada. We must organize our man-power if we are going to be successful in carrying on the war. I believe that we are all fairly well agreed in regard to that. It is, however, when they come to the question of methods, and the manner in which we are to attain the object aimed at that there seems to be a fairly wide divergence of opinion. There are those-such for example as the hon. gentleman who moved this resolution, if I understood him aright -who would introduce a complete measure -c -entire ma.n-nower of this country. There are others, as per example the hon. member who seconded the resolution, if I correctly gathered the purport of his arguments, who would confine that system to the aliens of this country. There are others again, and I have met a good many of them, who will say to you: Heave the situation just as it is. Let the labour problem work itself out. Give each individual the right to work where he likes, and to do what he likes, and to work or not, as he pleases. I am not in accord with either of these three. I will include the question of the conscription of all working men, and the conscription of aliens under one head for the purpose of making a few remarks on that phase of the subject. I do not believe that it is practicable to conscript any class of working men, and dn the last analysis it is practicability that we want, what we require to secure from the men of this country is one hundred per cent of efficiency in man power, whether they are aliens or whether they are Canadians, let me repeat again: I do not believe that it is practicable to conscript men in the manner in which you would conscript an army, put them to work in groups and get efficiency out of them. I may be asked, if you can conscript men for one service, why can you not conscript them for another service? For instance if you can say to one man, your duty is to don khaki, shoulder a rifle and go to the front, why cannot you say to another man, your duty is to don overalls, take a monkey

wrench and hammer and go to work in a machine shop. The answer I give to that is simply the conditions of service. In one case you have an army of men, every single one of whom is engaged in the same business, working under the same environment and under the same discipline, and with the age-long traditions of the army to back them up. On the other hand you have a group of civilians-an army of civilians if you will permit me to- use the term-engaged in a multitude of different classes and kinds of employment, from the janitor in the apartment house to the high salaried official in some of our large industrial .and financial institutions, each one working in his own way; and if we are going to be successful in connection with these organizations and industries the element of personal initiative and adaptability is the one thing that is going to mean success. So that on the ground of practicability, I say to you that the conscription of men for industrial pursuits is, to my mind, simply /-*P +Vtr* nimetiAn T am snpalcincr one who had something to do with the labour problem, in one form or another, during the whole of my life. I appreciate very much what one of the hon. gentlemen who spoke this afternoon said with regard to the aims .and desires of the Great WaT Veterans Association, but in the last anaiy-sis I believe that the representations that have been made by that association, and the position they have taken with regard to this question, is very much the same as that taken by any of the rest of us, who may have a heart interest in this war through the fact that some near relative is at present engaged in it. But after all, the view we take from that standpoint is purely sentimental, and you cannot deal with a subject such as this on sentimental grounds. It would be very nice indeed if we could .accept and gratify all the sentimental desires of those who have relatives at the front, or of the men who have returned from the front, What we want to do is to find some means by which we can in the best way possible, support these men at the front. It is not as I said, after all, a matter of sentiment; it is a matter of finding some means by which we can, if possible, get 100 per cent efficiency out of the working men of this country and put every man to work in some useful form of employment.
'That leads me to a brief consideration of the Order in Council that was laid on the table of this . House by the right hon. the Prime Minister (Sir Robert Borden)
t

on the 5th of this month. I am not going to criticise what has been done; nor do I wish to anticipate anything that may yet be contemplated in that regard. With the main principle embodied in that Order in Council I am in full and complete accord.
I believe that the time has come when every able-bodied man in this country must go to work without regard to where it is or who he is. He must become engaged in some useful form of employment. It may be said that this does not harmonize with the view that I have already expressed. You cannot conscript men. The idea of conscripting a man in the form in which you ordinarily conscript men and the idea of saying to a man: You must get into some useful form of employment, leaving it in the latter case to the individual to voluntarily find any employment he sees fit to choose, are absolutely and entirely different matters.
As I have said. I am in full accord with the main principle of the Order in Council laid on the table of the House by the Prime Minister. But, Sir, it seems to me that the Order in Council, in at least one or two particulars, does not go far enough. The first to which I would refer is that relating to strikes. If I can read the Order in Council aright, there is a clause in it that leaves the door -wide open to any group of men to strike if they wish and also leaves the door wide open to any wooden-headed employer who wishes to enforce conditions which would cause his men to strike and to force a tie up of his business. In war time I believe such a Situation as that 5 p.m. to be utterly illogical. Are we, or are we not, in earnest in connection with this whole subject? The question is: Are we determined to throw the whole weight of this country's power behind our men at the front? We have sent overseas almost'400,000 men, possibly more; I have not the figures, but (that is neither here nor there. Every one of these men who volunteered went with the whole force of this country behind him as expressed by this Parliament. Every man -who has gone there, or who may go as a conscript, has behind him the definite pledge of the great majority of the people of this country that they are going to support him to the last. What then would be the result if with all of these men over in France, the locomotive engineers on the Canadian railways, on the first of September next, should decide to tie up our transportation system? What would happen to our men at the front? If I am properly informed there is at this moment-or if there is not at this
moment, there was a short time ago a strike on in Nova Scotia in one or two of the most vital industries of this country in so far as our war effort is concerned.


Mr. McKENZIE:: Let ny; tell the hon. gentleman that he is entirely misinformed; there is no such condition in Nova Scotia.


Mr. G. B. NICHOLSON:: I am very glad indeed to hear that. The newspapers .of Toronto gave us the impression that the employees of the Nova Scotia Steel Company and one of the coal companies, were going out on strike. If that has been averted it has been a splendid thing for this country.


An hon. MEMBER:: They did go out,


George Brecken Nicholson: An hon. gentleman says they did go out. They may have gone back to work again, but I submit that so long as the Order in Council remains as it is, the opportunity is right there to do just what I have said. It is open to some employer of labour, on the one hand, to put his men in such a position as to compel them to strike, or it is open to some group of agitators, such as has been referred to by the seconder of this resolution, to organize an effort that will make it impossible for the employer to carry on the industry on which he is engaged. Neither of these conditions should be permitted during the war. I believe that it is entirely unnecesary that they should exist.
There is one other clause in the Order in Council that, if the House will bear with me, I will,read. It is:
Useful occupation and reasonable distance shall be a question of fact to be decided by the magistrates.
If useful occupation or the distance that a man has to go to secure that occupation is going to remain a question of fact that can be decided by some magistrate, the door is thrown wide open for a repetition of the farcical drama we have seen enacted in many parts of .the country in connection with the Military Service Act. All manner *and kinds of excuses will be used and acted upon in order to keep men out of work and to keep them from doing the things that men should be doing in this country. Instead of that being left for some magistrate, or any other local individual for that matter, to say what is a useful employment or how far a man should go to accept employment, there should be some central authority to pronounce on that. If necessary, I say that he should be compelled to

go from the Atlantic to the Pacific or vice versa. The hon. member for Maisonneuve (Mr. Lemieux) would say that dt should be vice versa, and that he should be compelled to go from the Pacific to the Atlantic. There should be no limitation as to the place in Canada in which a man should be required to work if that is the place where workmen are necesary. In order that we may get away from the possibility of these difficulties, there must be some central authority set up to direct the course in which the whole labour effort of this country will flow if we are going to do the things We must do.
In that connection, I would suggest to this House and to the Government that the labour organizations should be utilized as one of the means by which this can be brought about. I, as one of those who have been following closely the course of events in this connection, was very much gratified when I learned that the Prime Minister, in following up the position that he had previously taken in inviting into his Cabinet a representative of labour in the person of the Hon. Senator Robertson, had called into council here in Ottawa, the representatives of some sixty-five labour unions in Canada. I, with many others, felt then that this was going to result in some real constructive effort to co-ordinate the forces of labour in Canada. But we were somewhat disappointed when according to the reports that were published in the Press and some of the statements made by labour leaders who were present, that the whole result of that conference in so far as the labour organizations were concerned was largely a negative one. I am not going to criticise the representatives of labour who participated in the conference. They were acting, I am prepared to admit, on their best judgment and doing the thing which they, at that time, believed to be the right thing. But negative propositions will never land us anywhere. Negative propositions will not win this war. We must get something constructive. And if the leaders of the labour organizations in Canada are going to take the part that their position in the community demands of them, they must get away from a negative attitude towards these great world problems.
Now, 'Sir, I am prepared to admit that there are reasons why the leaders of organized labour should be somewhat skeptical of any suggestion which has underlying it the idea that they are going to be drawn into the industrial life of this country, so
[Mrr G. B. Nicholson.]
to speak, or to be made responsible for carrying on the industrial work. There are two or three reasons for that. In the first place, it is only within the past dozen years, or possibly twenty years at the most, that it became in any way nearly fully recognized that labour had the right to organize. Prior to that such a thing as a labour organization was looked upon as an alien institution, and right up until the present time there are many employers of labour-men who are themselves leaders in what we may call "big business," who desire that they themselves shall have the right to organize large combinations of finance in order to carry on their business-who still say that labour has no right to organize. I have heard men say quite recently: " Just wait until this war is over and we get these fellows where they belong, and we will then show them what we are going to do with labour organizations." Now, Sir, II say to you that if there is an employer of labour anywhere in this country who believes that he has simply got to wait until the war is over until he can return to his former position of capitalizing the flesh and blood of his fellow beings in order that he may use them for his owrn selfish ends, he is living in a fool's paradise. My opinion is that that time will never return in this country again.
Another reason why organized labour is somewhat skeptical is that governments and parliaments in times past have not been any too ready to listen to the legitimate demands of labour, while they have, as a rule, I believe, been fairly ready to listen to the importunities of those who would make use of organized labour. We are passing out of that stage, and the leaders of organized labour must recognize that we are passing out of it. May I repeat, that, in order to attain the position I believe they are aiming at, they must be called upon to accept the responsibilities that go with the privileges they enjoy. Every advance politically that democracy has ever made has carried with it a corresponding responsibility, and the leaders of organized labour must accept that responsibility. One form of autocracy is not very much .better than another, and the autocracy of lab ur would be just as great a curse to this country as the autocracy of the Bolsheviki. If the Russian peasants had the privilege of answering the question to-morrow, I believe they would say that they preferred the Czardom of the Czar to that of such men ae Trotzky.


Wilfrid Laurier: Hear, hear.


George Brecken Nicholson: And if we are
going to fight just such a condition, we must call upon the leaders of the working forces of this country to take their positions and accept their responsibility in connection with working out the great problems before us. The suggestion I have to make to this House and to the Government is, that a commission, or a committee, or anything else you like, representing organized labour in Canada, and representing the employers of labour in Canada, should be given the responsibility of seeing that there is no such thing as a strike so long as this war lasts).


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Hear, hear.


George Brecken Nicholson: 
Daniel Duncan McKenzie: Will the hon. member permit a question. He is dealing with a vital point. He states that he knows what the will of the body of labour on a certain question is. He did not state what he understands the mind of labour to be on that certain point.


George Brecken Nicholson: My conviction from personal contact with workingmen throughout this country is that they desire to do everything they can to reinforce the efforts our men are making at the front to win this war, and the only way they can reinforce that effort is by going to work and staying at work. Do not misunderstand me: I do not speak in any official capacity for organized labour, nor do I wish to be understood as saying even that I represent

a majority of organized labour. But I believe that I speak for the real feeling of organized labour in its best sense when I make that statement. I had the privilege recently of discussing this subject with a group of one hundred representative men of this country, drawn from the Atlantic to t'he Pacific, andf I put the question to them straight: Do you think that the representatives of organized labour in Canada are willing to. bring about a system such as was brought about between the Director of Railroads in the United 'States and the representatives of the railway organizations there? The answer was: Emphatically, yes.
To pass to the alternative. As I have said, I believe that we can find in Canada sufficient men to do all the things that we are endeavouring to do, inoluding the sending of reinforcements to our hoys at the front, which is the most vital necessity of all. If we cannot do that, if our men or some portion of them fail to respond to the imperative call of going to work, then I say that the Government will be justified in importing labour from any part of the world where labour can be found. I have no hesitation in saying that 50,000 coolies from Northern China could be imported into Canada, if necessity arose, without jeopardizing to the slightest degree the interests of Canadian workingmen, because when their services were no longer required they could he sent back to the country from which they came. People who say that coolie labour should not be introduced into this country under any circumstances do so purely for sentimental reasons. Our boys in France never talked of going on strike because the ghourkas or the men from Algeria went into the trenches beside them. Nor do they raise any objection to the employment of 100,000 Chinese labourers in France, who are doing transport work and many other things necessary to the support of the boys in the front lines. The people, therefore, will not object if our hoys are supported by coolies imported from other countries in order to produce foodstuffs, make munitions and war equipment, and do anything else necessary to assist in carrying on this war.
I am convinced that this House will support the Government; I am convinced that the people will support this House, in any measure, no matter how drastic it is, that may be found necessary to organize the industrial and productive work of this country up to the limit of its capacity.
I therefore urge upon the Government the desirability of their thking any steps-I 
think I can speak for organized labour when I say that in the last analysis they will support the Government also in this respect-to accomplish that end.
(Mr. JAMES ARTHURS (Parry Sound): Mr. Speaker, I have no desire to detain the House at any length, hut the question now under discussion is a very burning one in many parts of our great Dominion. Men fail to .see the reason why their boys should voluntarily go overseas and work for $1.10 a day, while foreigners come in and take their places in the ordinary walks of life and earn $7 and $8 a day. This question is talked of -and spoken about all over Canada. But we are to-day face to face with a somewhat different condition. On Friday last we passed tn Act under which all the young men of Canada between certain ages are required to go to the front, whether they have business at home or not. The man who is to-day earning $20, $30 or $40 a week, the man who has a large income, will be required to accept the $1.10 a day of the soldier. Perhaps this man has a widowed mother; perhaps he has young sisters depending on him, who, when he is sent overseas, will have their ordinary source of income cut off, while Austrians or Germans will take up his work. The mothers and sisters of these Austrians and Germans will thereby receive the benefit of earnings which had formerly accrued to the men who went overseas. Some say that these foreigners are doing very little good in the industrial world; that many of them are agitators; that many of them are leaders in strikes and other activities not favourable to the prosecution of Canada's part in the war. Other men argue that we cannot do anything because these men are members of trade unions. I think, however, that the proper solution is somewhat along the line suggested by the memlber for East Algoma (Mr. Nicholson) that we should1 come to some agreement; that this matter should be talked over by men who know their business; that some plan should be arrived at whereby we may obtain the services of these men and at the same time do equal justice to all.	j
The member for Maisonneuve (Mr. Lem-ieux) said that we could not do anything along this line because of international law; that any action would be a violation of the arrangements made at the Hague tribunal. But 1 would call his attention to the fact that the bombing of open and unfortified towns is not in accordance with the conditions of the Hague tribunal. Moreover,

it is against the ordinary canons of war to use gas; but the Germans have adopted this, and in self-defence the Allies have had to take the same course. If we take the same course with the German citizens of Canada that the Germans take with subjects of the Allies now in their country, no reasonable objection can be made by them.
The hon. member also dragged in a discussion of the Military Service Act. He had a great deal of sympathy with the Galicians who had come to this country, as he said, not because they were, favourable to, but in order to get away from, the Central Powers. It is quite true that many Galicians came here in order to better their condition, and the same may be said of many Germans. But may I ask the hon. gentleman this-he refused me the right to ask him the question when he was dealing with the matter-where are the brothers, the cousins, and the uncles of these men for whom he professes so much sympathy? They are fighting to-day against the Allies, and they are the men who are making these measures now necessary in Canada.
The hon. gentleman (Mr. Lemieux) also said something-I believe that was the one thing which brought him to his feet-regarding conscription or the Military Service Act in his own province. Well, that is not akin to this subject, and I have no desire to raise the question here. Let me say this: the great majority of the people of Ontario are willing to make any sacrifice and to put up with any adverse conditions in order to assist in the common cause, but they do demand that in the matter of supplying men necessary for the reinforcing of our boys at the front, equal justice be done to all classes in the community and that each province and each military district should supply its quota of men.
The member for Maisonneuve finished with the remark that he did not know whether there were any strangers in the House, but he was quite satisfied that there were Prussians. I am not quite satisfied even that there are Prussians, but if there are men playing the Prussian game in this House, and who have been doing so for some time past, they are friends of hon. gentlemen on the other side.


Mr. W. F. MACLEAN (South York):: Mr. Speaker, the discussion this afternoon has, as it very properly should, taken a wide range, and because of the width of the discussion and because we have on the Order Paper three different motions dealing with this question, it is only fair that all sides should be heard. The speeches that have
been delivered, especially those that have been delivered by the new members of the House, are instructive in regard to the situation. The most important question that came up in December in my election campaign, and, I suppose, in the election campaigns of most of the other members of this House, was the winning of the war, and the next most important question was what was to be our attitude towards the enemy alien living in our country. As far as I could gather from the meetings, there was, in the elections throughout Ontario, practically a unanimity of opinion that something must be done by the Government of this country in relation to the aliens, and, in particular, the enemy aliens, in Canada. The returned veterans had their view, and that has been expressed here to-day. Women voted in that election, and now that we are enfranchising all the women of Canada, they will be an important factor in coming elections. The women of this country, especially those who have soldier relatives, are convinced that something is radically wrong about our treatment of enemy aliens in this time of war, and the same view is held by our soldiers. Things are so bad in this country, and they have been so bad in the United States since that country entered the war, that it is absolutely essential that there should be a re-writing of the definition of what constitutes citizenship, of the definition of an alien, and of the rights of an enemy alien. You hear it said in all parts of the country, and it is a fact, as has been stated by hon. gentlemen who have spoken this afternoon, that women do not like to see their boys going to the front as volunteers, or under conscription, and being paid $1.10 a day, when enemy aliens are being given their jobs, many of them being paid as much as twelve dollars a day. I know that to be the fact in shop after shop throughout my constituency. There are enemy aliens in this country and in the United States. There are many enemy aliens in Great Britain. The outstanding feature of the question is that in Englishspeaking countries, and especially where British law prevails, we have made a great mistake in the privileges we have given in regard to the settlement here of aliens, and, in particular of enemy aliens.
One of the hon. members who spoke said that the time had come when we should have further regulation of labour, and he mentioned "bootblacking" as a non-essential employment. In every city of this country there are Greeks blacking boots and carrying on pool rooms, who ought to

be compelled to return to the land of their birth and to serve in their own army in the cause of the Allies.
An, hon. MEMBER:	What about the
Italians?


William Findlay Maclean: In view of the seriousness of the situation, when the necessity is so great for men and food and munitions and war supplies of all kinds we should be on the job right now and Parliament should not dissolve until it has found a way of enumerating the manpower and women-power of this country and made provision for utilizing that power in the most effective way. The thing I appreciated most last Saturday, as an ordinary farmer, was to have two young boys come to our place and say: "We have read in the papers that they are making a list of the boys who will work on farms; we want to work on a farm." And we took them on.


Sir SAM HUGHES:: They knew a good thing.


William Findlay Maclean: Yes, those hoys were patriots: in their way. We must, start right now to register t-he man-power of this country; it is no good1 postponing the matter any longer. I heard more in the last election of the alien enemy question than of any other. Our people are absolutely dissatisfied with tlhe large alien element in this country, who tell us they are not under our law and are not subject to our discipline because of certain treaty rights. They are in our country and under any laws we choose to make to win the war and to maintain our rights which are now in jeopardy. It is all very well to make the issue a matter of ethics, and in that connection I have just one criticism to make of two men so great as Mr. Asquith and President Wilson. For a long time in the conduct of the war Mr. Asquith, as Premier, made the issue largely an ethical one; he talked about morals and the German attitude, and put his case in very fine English. For two years the President of the United States was engaged in that same ethical discussion with the powers in Germany. Now what is the good of having a moral discussion with an unethical people like the Germans? They hung President Wilson up for two years, and are hanging us up now by discussion of international law and what we should do and what not do. The thing in practical politics is that Asquith should have made an issue with Germany much earlier than he did, and President Wilson should have taken action when the Lusitania was torpedoed, and yet we have had to wait for a long time in both instances. I am voicing no criticism, I am merely suggesting to the House that the time has passed to indulge in an ethical discussion with an unmoral people like the Germans, and it is wrong to discuss 
international law and the rights of aliens who happen to be in this country, and who say that they do not have to fight, and that they do not have to work in Canada only when they see fit.
These aliens have got to be made to work, and those of them in this country belonging to allied nations who will1 not serve in our army, and' say they will not do so, have all got to get out of this country and serve in the armies of their own country, and if we are to be fair and square with our own boys who have gone to the front. One-half the*alien labour in this country are engaged in some occupation or another which is not of a useful character. As I said, you will find one-half the Greeks in Toronto keeping poolrooms, or blacking boots, or running fruit stands, and the same with many other aliens. They should be made to get into some useful occupation, and my advice to the Minister of Agriculture, who sees the necessity of getting labour on the farms, is to insist on this enumeration and regulation of man-power. Let it be done right away; make every one of these aliens turn in and do something. I know it is a hard thing to do. You cannot, perhaps, intern them, but there is a way to deal with the problem. The Germans have found a way. They have found a way to make our boys, and our fellow subjects who have fallen into their hands, do something. More than that they have made them take small pay and they have ill-treated them. I do not (propose ill-treatment or anything of the kind, but the people whom I represent here, think, that, in the tenor of the motion that I have on the Order Paper, to-day, there are lots of these people who should be made to work, and that the difference between the wages they receive and the soldier's pay of $1.10 per day should be devoted to some war purpose.
We have been told that you cannot control this labour, but I tell you how you can control it. What is the fundamental thing in connection with many of the problems of the war? It ie the enforcement of the idea of licensing. If you want to carry on a business you must pay a license. If you are manufacturing, and especially if you are making munitions, you have to take out a license under the law as it is now, and' things may get so bad in this country, because the war is not over yet, that we may have to require every manufacturer no matter what his business is, to take out a license. Under that license we can make rules and regulations concerning the men that the manufacturer employs

in his work. As I say, that may reduce production somewhat, but it will put these people under discipline, both the employer and the man who works for him, and hitherto that has not been the case. As I said before, one of the most insolent things we find in the workshops of Ontario is the case of men who are getting from $6 to $10 and $12 a day. They work when they like, and they have been getting the preference, at least so I have been told, and hon. gentlemen who represent city constituencies will doubtless corroborate it. These foreigners are getting work in preference to the relatives of soldiers at the front. A great many hon. gentlemen in this House have had experience of that, certainly I have had, and the employers of this labour must be put under some kind of regulation, and under some kind of license. I have no cut and dried proposal to submit fcr the solution of these troubles, but the difficulties are with us for solution.
This is a Parliament fresh from the people of Canada empowered to deal largely with these war questions, and there never was so good an opportunity as now exists to define the word citizenship and define what an enemy alien is, and what we ought to do with all these aliens now in our country so as tio make them contribute their .share towards the winning of the war. Of course, there are any number of difficulties connected with the matter, but they can be dealt with and they have got to be dealt with one way or another. I agree with what the hon. member for E. Algoma (Mr. Nicholson) said, that we can get organized labour to join with the Government in working out some solution. Of course, the problem is a hard one to solve, but we have got to deal with it, and the United States have also got to deal with it. The war is not over, the question is with us, and people are talking about it at every opportunity. The women are talking about it most. The women are voters in this country, and even although it may be a question of sentiment, as the hon. member for 'East Algoma said, I am reminded Of Napoleon's statement that, sentiment rules the world, and so it does. That being the case, I invite the House to have the fullest possible discussion on the matter. Let every hon. member state his experience and make suggestions as to what action he thinks should be taken, and let the Government maintain an open mind in connection with the subject, and then we will work Out some solution of the very great problem now before the people of the country.
Mr. FRED. LANGDON DAVIS (Neepawa): Mr. Speaker, in rising to discuss this question, I would like to make a few preliminary remarks on what has already been said. It is always exciting to meet gentlemen with an appetite for trouble, sometimes alarming, and alarm is my feeling at the suggestion, in connection with this question, of conscription. With the Union Government facing the question of conscription of soldiers, to add to its troubles the conscription of labour is quite too much. I do not want to see Union IGovernment die of what I might term-coining a word for the purpose-conscriptitis. It may, however, be threatened with that complaint if an unwise course is followed, but there are other ways of dealing with the question. First of all, what is the idea which each member has in his mind with regard to the enemy alien? How many men has he acquaintance with who would come within that class? In Manitoba we have had many Austrians who are called alien enemies, offering for enlistment. A few we have accepted and some we have rejected. I know men of Polish, Hungarian and Galician birth who have given their lives for Great Britain on the battlefields of Western France. To-day, and I do not know whether I transgress any rule of the House in mentioning it, with three-quarters of the opposition to the present Government French Canadians, we are perhaps facing this situation: That we 'English-speaking people, with our usual insularity and self-sufficiency, are putting a tag upon a class of people whom we do not very well know, and whom we are not in complete sympathy with. One of the troubles I see to-day is that an hon. member from British Columbia, two thousand miles from Quebec, is proposing conscription for French Canadians. Well, it seems to me there is not only a great distance geographically between him and them, hut also a great gap in the matter of sympathy and understanding. It does really seem as though we are separated to such an extent in the matter both of sympathy and of distance that we never can get together. Are we going to perpetuate such a situation with regard to the aliens who have come to our shores? Is it not well that we should look at the fact that perhaps a solid French Qanada may some day extend her hand with special offers to people of foreign descent? Indeed, in Manitoba to-day we have a situation where the Galician population is already becoming assertive and reaching out for membership in our local

House. How long will it be before they will demand Galician members in this House? As a matter of fact it seems to me it would be a good thing if we had two or three of them here to-day to inform the House as to what would be the attitude of their people towards the conscription of alien labour. I do not think the solution of the question lies in that direction at all.
I do not think that it lies in the direction of the conscription of any labour whatsoever. It does lie, perhaps, in the direction of the policy which already European countries and the United States have adopted. We know that in Great Britain and in France they have undertaken to restrict the less essential industries. In the United States they are doing the same. Have we not the courage to advance along the same line?
Before dealing with the question in that sense, let us look at the situation which faces us to-day, because, again, I think there may not be sufficient clearness in our minds as to the actual facts. Owing to the long seeding time we have had this spring, we are not very greatly in need of agricultural labour just now. More than that, from the best information I can gather, we need, perhaps 5,000 or 10,000 men for railway right of way maintenance purposes. Whether we need more men for actual mining or not I cannot tell; I do not know where to get that information. I have asked men from the coal mining regions and they have told me that upwards of 1,000 men have left the coal mining regions of Nova 'Scotia and gone to Halifax, where labour is in demand and high wages are offered. With regard to our western mines, the matter depends entirely, I believe, on the situation in regard to railway transportation and on how far the West will answer to the request that is now being made that we should lay in 70 per cent of our supply of fuel during the coming summer. If that is done we are going to need labour in the coal mines. The ordinary requirements of the West in regard to agriculture from the first of August to the loth November are from 25,000 to 40,000 extra men. We have been getting them from the United States and the eastern provinces. But, as a result of conscription and of the enlistment of so many thousands of men, we find that in the last year or . so we are not getting nearly so many; so that, in all probability we will find that we are limited there. Added to this will be the effect of the Order in. Council brought down last week which will take, according to the esti-
IMf. Davis.]
mate of the Prime Minister, 10,000 in each year called.
At six o'clock the House took recess.
After Recess.
The House resumed at eight o'clock.


Mr. F. L. DAVIS (resuming):: 

alien " is a concept which has not a truth in it. These men have expatriated themselves for the purpose of bedoming Canadian citizens; many of them have changed their names to Anglicized forms in order that they might he able to enlist. If we treat such men as men and brothers, it will make Canadians of them; if we treat them in any other fashion, we will make o! them an alien element in Canada-and that, above all things, God forbid.


Mr. H. C. HOCKEN (Toronto West):: Mr. Speaker, I find myself in sympathy with the member for South York (Mr. W. F. Maclean) when he tells us that he has not been able to find any complete solution for the difficulty which is indicated in the motion now under consideration. I myself have given a good deal of thought-* with the application, perhaps, of less brains than the member for -South York would apply to it-to the finding of a solution of the problem that would be satisfactory to me and that I would feel like urging on the Government.
The electors in every riding in the city of Toronto are hedged round by a foreign population which is contributing nothing . to the conduct of the war, and which is living in ease, comfort and luxury. Some of them, indeed, are laughing at their English-speaking neighbours who have been forced to do their duty. I quite appreciate the' difficult nature of the problem that confronts the Government, but it is a problem which, I think, we might be able to solve at least in part. A certain exasperation exists throughout Canada when men of English birth and blood see foreigners, neighbours of theirs, go to the tribunals-as they have been going in the city of Toronto-with a smile upon their faces, declaring: " I am not naturalized "; and upon the strength of that statement walking out free to do as they like and not bearing any of the burdens incident to the war. Take, for instance, the case of a man conducting a grocery store in the east end of our city. He was taken away from his occupation, and his store had to be closed. Across the way from him, a block or two down the street, was a Greek, conducting th-e same kind of business. This Greek remains, not only to carry on the business with the customers that he previously had, but to take over the customers of the English-speaking merchant who had to go and fight, at the soldier's pay of $1.10 a day. I am sure that this is a state of affairs that would exasperate anybody, and it is no wonder that in, the district the member for South York represents, as well as in

every other part of Toronto, this feeling has become so strong. I sympathize particularly with the member for South York, because he has in his riding what was formerly a Suburb of Toronto, and which is now incorporated in the city-the district called Earlscourt. This district, which was at that time a distant part of the city, wa-s settled by Englishmen who bought their little twenty or twenty-five foot lots by paying a dollar a month for them, built their little homes-some of them not much larger than a couple of packing boxes put together-and, as time -went on, put up more respectable and m-ore commodious residences, showing the splendid spirit of the Englishman to be independent. When- the war broke out, that whole district was depleted of its men; thousands of them left that small section of our city. The women who have been left behind to carry on the work would have been- just as glad to go to the front as the-ir husbands, if it had been possible for them to do so. There is not in Canada any finer class of people than these men and -women in Earlscourt. The men, on the day of the declaration of -war, stepped out and announced their willingness to take their share of the burden; and the women were left at home, and voted in the last election. These are the people the member for Sou-th York has had to meet; they are the ones who made representations to me to try to have something done towards the conscription of alien enemies. Tt is not surprising, iMr. Speaker, that they should press upon me with great earnestness, even as they have pressed it upon the member for -South York and the member for East York (Mr. Foster) and, indeed, every hon. gen-tlem-an who represents a Toronto constituency.
I respect international law, and believe that we should not ignore it. At the same time, however, one's respect for these conventions must be somewhat limited when he sees chaos approaching his country. If the Germans should win this war, it would be chaos for Canada; and if any good purpose, any great end, is to be served by modifying our observance of international law under conditions such as those which confront us, I join the member for South York in saying that ste-ps in that direction ought to be taken. Just how far we should go, I am no more prepared to say than he is; but in view of the desperate state of affairs in which we find ourselves, we should take all necessary measures for the protection of our country and for the organization of our man power, whether of

enemy aliens or of native and naturalized citizens, in order to get the very best results.
We have been informed that attempts are being made to arrange conventions with neutral countries in order that those who have come from those countries to Canada may be enlisted in our forces or be required by law to contribute their services to the State in some other way. I think that is a most commendable thing for the Government to do, and I most sincerely hope that they will press their efforts to arrange such conventions. We should at least be able to make such a convention with the kingdom of Italy; that of itself would mean a tremendous increase in man power, either by having men who came here from Italy enlist in their own armies, or by causing them to join our armies here.
How this conscription of enemy aliens can best be carried out, I have not determined, but I am still thinking about it, and perhaps I may 'be able to find some solution, if only in part, and submit it later if I have opportunity. But one thing we can do and ought to do is to follow the suggestion of the member for Neepawa (Mr. Davis) and cut down non-essential industries.
If I go into a hotel, I find twenty to thirty men serving victuals to the guests. Those twenty or thirty men could be better employed and could give better and more important service to this country than they are giving at present, and there is not one of them who could not be replaced by a young woman who would do the work quite at satisfactorily. I shall go further than that and say that fruit stores and confectionary stores should be conducted by women; that the Government should require them to be conducted by women. Work of that nature is surely not beyond either the physical or the mental powers of an ordinary intelligent woman. Out of those fruit stores, confectionery stores and other stores of that character, a large number of men could be obtained to be put at moTe important and essential work. If I were the Prime Minister of this country, I would go so far as to close up every pool room, billard room and bowling alley in the land until this war was over, for not only are young men required to conduct these places, but in a great many instances they are a resort for idlers, and they should at least be restricted, if not entirely done away with. Surely there are other forms of amusement in which men could
engage without requiring the assistance of those who are at present employed conducting such establishments. I fail to see how any person can argue that those places of amusement are essential to the carrying on of the war or to the comfort, convenience and happiness of the people of Canada at this time.
My hon. friend from Comox-Alberni (Mr. Clements) suggests that it might be a good thing to get a large number of French Canadians to go out to British Columbia to work there. I can give him a plan that will enable him to achieve that purpose if he goes at it seriously. We attracted a great many to the city of Toronto by paying them $6 a day. During the period of voluntary enlistment very large numbers came in, and as the young men of our city went into the ranks at $1.10 a day, the men from Quebec came in to take their places at $6 a day. They have been living very comfortably and happily, and they are very welcome in the city of Toronto. I have no doubt, as the hon. member for Comox-Alberni says, they will go back to Quebec with broadei minds and be better citizens because of this association with the English-speaking people of the city of Toronto. A good many of them went to Halifax. My information-and it was obtained upon the spot-is that from Point Levis alone several hundreds went down to Halifax to engage in the work of restoring that city. Afterwards, according to the press, the military police went down to Halifax to find some men for whom they were searching, and they found a good many of those men who had left Point Levis to go down to Halifax engaged on the restoration work, and at the same time carrying in their pockets exemption certificates on the ground that they were farmers. Perhaps the offer of $6 a day might secure the relief in British Columbia that my hon. friend from Comox-Alberni desires.
I was glad to hear the hon. member for Maisonneuve (Mr. Lemieux) state that the bends of the province of Quebec are so attractive to the investors of this country. I have been reading of some parts of the province in which the bonds are not so satisfactory, ilf the Montreal press tells the truth, that great city, the greatest in the Dominion of Canada, has been upon the verge of bankruptcy. That statement was made in a number of Montreal papers, and it was also stated that the bonds are somewhat difficult to dispose of.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Order. I hesitate to call the hon. member to order, but I think he is wandering somewhat afield.


Horatio Clarence Hocken: I was merely referring to the statement made by the hon. member for 'Maisonneuve that the bonds had been so attractive, but they did riot seem to be so because the city was put under a commission.


Mr. GAUTHIER:: Is the hon. member aware that the bonds of that city, which he claims is bankrupt, were all underwritten by the Bank of Montreal?


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Order. This is not germane to the discussion at all.


Horatio Clarence Hocken: 
Mr. F. B. McCURDY (Parliamentary Secretary):: With much that has been said in support of this resolution all will agree. Since the war has entered its present phase, I am -sure that there can he only one desire in -this country, that is, in what way, and in what manner, can Canada's striking force in the conflict be strengthened.
The hon. member for East Algotna (Mr. Nicholson) suggested that it should be done by co-ordinaiting the labour of the country The hon. member for Kootenay (Mr. Green)

The form of questionnaire makes provision for obtaining the information that is required by the Registration Board under such headings as name, nationality, age, physical disabilities, if any, number of children in the family, present occupation, length of experience in that occupation, and name of employer, if there is such. There are also questions to ascertain in what other line of activity the registrant would be useful if he left his present employment.
With this machinery it is confidently hoped that the Government will be put in possession of a record1 of the man and woman power of the country which is necessary to the further utilization of this power in the more essential industries; and for war effort. During the discussion this afternoon, many references were made to organized or union labour as such. Is it not possible that we should fall into the error of treating men as a class? General statements are apt to be misleading. I remember some time ago in connection with an investigation of conditions surrounding returned soldiers, visiting a plant in Montreal, where some 500 or 600 returned soldiers were employed. I asked the foreman of the shop, a most intelligent man, what had been his experience with the returned soldier as an employee. He said: "Come with me," and took me to a machine where a man was working with a great deal of dexterity, and said: " There is the best man in the whole shop; he is a returned soldier." There were perhaps two or three thousand employees in all. We went a little further, and he showed me a man working at another machine, and said: " There is the worst man in the whole shop; he is a returned soldier." So he had among one particular class of men at once the best man and the worst in the shop. From the employers' point of view I was clearly in error in suggesting any division by class aione. And it seems to me that in referring to unions as such, there is a danger of falling into a similar error. Neither labour unions, organized labour, or organized financial groups as such, can have any monopoly of patriotism. You find just as true a heart beating under the workman's jacket as under the frock coat of the employer, and, conversely, the same is true.
What has been done by Canada since the war began? In the matter of recruiting, who expected at the outbreak of war that wt- should have had upwards of 400,000 men coming forward voluntarily and joining the colours? Who, at that time, would have 
hazarded a prediction that after four years of war, Canada would have been able to float a loan of $400,000,000? The experience
ir.	the American Civil War and of Canada in this war, if it illustrates one thing more than another, illustrates that under stress oi war conditions, with their stimulating effect upon the patriotism of the people, results can be achieved far beyond the standard of peace times.
So, may we not expect that, when the information is available, that this inventory of man power and woman power will yield, we can, even should we have to depend on the labour which is now in this country, further strengthen our war effort?


Thomas Foster: Mr. Speaker, there appears to be a very strong sentiment prevailing throughout the Dominion that something should be done with the aliens in this country. This is indicated by the fact that we have already on the Order Paper notice of resolutions by three members of this House, and possibly three ether members had it in mind to bring forward similar resolutions. This sentiment prevailing from the Atlantic to the Pacific is not only confined to members of this House, but the press of the country has strongly urged that some action shou'd be taken.
The Prime Minister told us a few days ago that he had about completed a treaty with the United States whereby Canadians in that country and Americans in Canada can be conscripted, or some action taken whereby they can do their part. And the same will apply to Canadians in the United States. But the Prime Minister stated that it would take months, or possibly a year or two, before a treaty could be effected to take in the nations of Italy, France, Spam or Russia. We must have some immediate action along this line, as has been mentioned this afternoon. What do we find in the city of Toronto? In one section of that city, there are about 20,000 Macedonians and Bulgarians; in another section, about
25,000	Italians. There are about 35,000 Jews, about 5,000 Greeks, and, about 4,000 Chinamen. Throughout the city there are 70,000 or 80,000 foreigners. I venture to say that perhaps fifty per cent of that population has not been naturalized. Is it fair that these people should remain here, and at the expense of our own boys who are left, earn the very large wages-from $5 to $10 a day-that they are making? I venture to say that there are many members of this House who do not know how these people live, or how they hoard their earnings. I

know that in some parts of the city, where I have had dealings with them, they earn very large wages and live on very little, perhaps fifteen or twenty-five cents a day. It takes two or three dollars a day to keep a Britisher, who spends his money furnishing his house and living on the best, keeping the factories going, and wearing good clothes. But what does the other class do? They wear the cheapest of clothes; they do not furnish or occupy houses as Britishers do, but herd together, perhaps ten or fifteen in a room, paying possibly, a dollar a week each to sleep in that room. They get their board very cheaply, and save the greater part of their earnings. As we know, the greater part of this population is not stable but floating. Why are there so many of them in Toronto? The hon. member for West Toronto (Mr. Hocken) has explained that ivhen you want to attract people you offer large wages. That is why so many have come to Toronto from all parts of the Dominion and outside of it. Thousands of these foreigners have been attracted to the city on account of the very large wages that are paid. To illustrate this situation: A few days ago an accident occurred to a foreigner, and when he was taken to the hospital the sum of $3,500 was found in his belt. In another case, $2,000 was found in the same way. In many cases we find that these people are comparatively rich, carrying large sums of money around. What have we done to get a share of that money paid back to the treasury of this country? We have not done anything. I think there should either be conscription of these people and part of their wages assigned, or that we should levy a war tax on what they earn. You would only have to levy a very small percentage upon their earnings to amount to millions of dollars. I venture to say that throughout this Dominion there will be 200,000 foreigners subject to war tax? If we levy a dollar a day upon these, it would run into millions of dollars, which would 'be easy revenue to the Dominion, and would come from a source where nobody would be materially affected, because these people earn large amounts and spend very little, and if times get better on the other side or in some other country they will float away. We have got nothing out of them, but they have done all they could to get money out of this country. Representations have beeni made to the Cabinet and to the Prime Minister by various portions of the Dominion that some action should be taken in this regard. Why should not we avail ourselves of this opportunity of increasing the revenues of the country, particularly when no serious hardship would result to anybody? In my district a man had to give up a splendid business, which has since been taken up by foreigners, among whose families may be found five ot six husky young fellows whose services might well be devoted to securing some material benefit for the nation. But they are there, making a fortune, while our own men have been conscripted and taken away. Walking down one of the main streets of Toronto .a few. weeks ago I could not help thinking that it was difficult to tell whether I was in Italy, Jerusalem or Toronto-judging by the conversations of the people passing up and down the street. A few years ago a foreign voice was seldom heard in Toronto; to-day almost every second person you meet speaks' a foreign language. I also noticed within three or four blocks thirty or forty husky foreigners, while very few of our own hoys were to be seen. On the same day I met a lady who was much grieved that her boy, who on account of his delicate constitution had been brought up with a great deal of attention and care, had 'been conscripted, while hundreds of healthy, husky young foreigners were walking about, enjoying life and all that money could purchase. These young men earn large wages without any material hardship, because in the large factories, including many of the munition works, the strong, husky fellows are preferred to the more delicate or physically unfit. The Great War Veterans have taken this matter up and it seems to be becoming difficult to hold them under control and to prevent them from raiding some of the factories where so many foreigners are occupying important positions and earning much money, to the disadvantage of returned soldiers. It would appear that many of the manufacturers prefer the foreigners to the returned soldiers. Indeed, a few months ago a kind of raid was made on some factories; the men went in and took out foreigners who were working there. There have been many threats during the past week, and if some steps are not taken to deal with these alien enemies, I am afraid that trouble will develop. I should be very sorry to see it occur, but in this respect the responsibility rests upon the Government of endeavouring to solve the problem which confronts us. I do not say that I can solve it-indeed, I do not know that any of the members who have already spoken can solve it. I suggest that a special committee be named to go into the

matter and make a recommendation to the House. That is what the public are looking for. Before the session is over some action should be taken, or we may have trouble in some parts of the Dominion. The feeling is that while we should treat these people justly, it is not right that they should be earning a tremendous amount of money which may at any time go from this country into some other country, while our own boys are fighting overseas. I trust that, having regard to the discussion which has taken place, the Government will, before the session closes, take some action in the matter, and thus prevent anything unseemly that might occur against these alien enemies.


Mr. S. F. TOLMIE (Victoria City):: 

TREATMENT OF RESIDENT ENEMY SUBJECTS.

[Stage Direction]
(lil.) According to the British view, the first consequence of the existence of a condition of war between two States is that every subject of the one State beoomes an enemy to every subject of the other. For it is imposible to severe the subjects from their State, and the outbreak of war between two States cannot but make their subjects enemies. It is, however, a universally recognized rule of International Law that hostilities are restricted to the armed forces of the belligerents, and that the ordinary citizens of the contending states, who do not take up arms and who abstain from hostile acts, must be treated leniently, must not be injured in their lives or liberty, except for cause or after due trial, and must not as a rule be deprived of their private property.
It is thus no longer considered admissible to detain as prisoners subjects of one of the hostile parties travelling or resident in the
[Stage Direction]
country of the other at the time of the outbreak of war.
(12) The view that such action was illegal except in grave emergency has steadily gained support. Article 5 of the Regulations annexed to the Convention, 1899, concerning the Raws and Customs of War on Rand, 1899, permitted the internment of prisoners of war, and it was contended at the Conference of 19"07 that the terms of the article afforded a strong argument e con-trario, that the internment of enemy subjects not prisoners of war was prohibited. No vote was taken on the ,point, tout this interpretation of the article was generally accepted subject to the reservation of the right which every State undoubtedly possesses of taking such steps as it may seem necessary for the control of all persons whose presence or oonduct appear dangerous to its safety.
13.	This immunity, however, cannot apply to persons known to be active or reserve officers, or reservists, of the hostile army-for the principle of self-preservation must justify belligerents in refusing to furnish each other with resources that will increase their means of defence.
Men of the kind referred to by these resolutions are men of military age, reservists of the alien enemy.
14.	The expulsion of subjects of the enemy from the territory of the opposing State is in strict law admissible, but is usually not resorted to unless grave reasons make it advisable.
15.	'Belligerents have in recent years always acted in obedience to this principle. Thus expulsion has been decreed from seaports, fortresses, and defended areas, where special precautions were necessary, and from the actual or expected theatres of hostilities.
16.	Should' the expulsion of any person be ordered he should be given suoh reasonable notice as may be consistent with public safety, in order to make arrangements for the custody of his property and preparations for his departure.
Now, that is the statement of the case by the British Government in their own Manual, and whilst they say there is a strong trend towards preventing the internment, and interfering with the liberty, of alien enemies, still at the same time it is stated distinctly there that at the Hague Convention no vote was taken on this subject. So the argument that international law interferes is quite contrary to the facts and to all international law. Let us see now what the Hague Convention says further-and I am going to read from the Regulation respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, with reference to prisoners of war, chapter 2:
Article 4. Prisoners of war are in the power of the hostile Government, but not of the individual or corps who capture them. They must he humanely treated.
AH their personal belongings, except arms, horses, and military papers, remain their property.

This is the article referred to in the selection from the Manual read by me and applies, as you note, to reservists.
Article 5. Prisoners of war may be interned in a town, fortress, camp, or other place, and are bound not to go beyond certain fixed limits ; but they cannot toe placed in confinement except as an indispensible measure of safety, and only while the circumstances which necessitate the measure continue to exist.
Article 6. The State may employ the labour of prisoners of war, other than officers, according to their rank and capacity. The work shall not be excessive, and shall have no connection with the operations of the war.
So that, enemy reservists in this country, that is men of military age, can be conscripted by this state, and can be compelled to labour for the state at anything but munition wprk.
Prisoners may toe authorized to work for the public service, for private persons, or on their own account.
Work done for the State is paid for at rates proportional to the work of a similar kind executed by soldiers of the national army, or, if' there are no suoh rates in foroe, at rates proportional to the work executed.
When the work is for other branches of the public service, or for private persons, the conditions are settled in agreement with the military authorities.
So that, the State has absolute control to fix the wages even of these men who are alien enemy reservists.
The wages of the prisoners shall go towards improving their position, and the balance shall be ;paid them on their release, deductions on account of the cost of maintenance excepted!.
Article 7. The government into whose hands the prisoners of war have fallen, is charged with their maintenance.
In default of special agreement between the belligerents, prisoners of war shall toe treated, as regard rations, quarters and clothing, on the same footing as the troops of the Government which captured them.
Article 8. Prisoners of war shall be subject to the laws, regulations, and orders in force in the army of the State in the power of which they are. Any act of insubordination justifies the adoption towards them of such measures of severity as may be considered necessary.
Then it goes on to deal with other matters of this kind. So, you see, Mr. Speaker, as far as the question is concerned in its reference to alien enemies of military age, there is no doubt in the world of our perfect right to deal with them as prisoners of war. There is no convention or regulation to the contrary. And I might say further that the Emperor of Germany has added his signature to this convention.
I might say that these conventions are plain, ordinary worded matters of treaty, and any man of ordinary intelligence can read and understand them. Any of my

friends who	speak the French language. and who are not well versed in English,	will find	the French
version parallel with the English in this volume. I think I have proved conclusively that we have a perfect right, as far as international law is concerned, to register all alien enemies, to even intern them, or make them prisoners Of war, and that in so doing we are not contravening any of the Hague conventions. When this war broke out, we commenced to register these people, and a great many have been registered. A large number of them are good, honest men, Bohemians, Galicians, and men from the outlying provinces of Germany and Austria, who are doing good work in this country, going weekly to the registrar's, and giving notice to the police of their presence, and, on the whole, behaving themselves like respected citizens. Many are working in munition factories. If they should ever have to go back to their own country, God help them, because in doing that they are contravening the laws of their own country and rendering themselves liable to trial by court martial, with all that that involves. However, the question, as far as they are concerned, to my mind, is settled by the Hague convention, and there is no reason why the Government should not take action. Shortly before the election there was a feeling that in certain sections of this country these men were not registered. They were not registered in Waterloo county, and there has been a great deal of dissatisfaction in my province because the law has not been carried out as strictly as it should have been, in Waterloo, and I regret very much I should have to bring this matter up in the House at the present moment, because nothing has even been done in that regard since the election. There has been no attempt to organize this country as a military power, because after all Canada is the greatest of the secondary military powers, as all the Other small nationalities have dropped out. We must recognize that the British Empire and the Allies regard Canada and its army as a separate identity, the glorious action of our men on various fields having stamped us distinctly as a nationality of our own, quite capable of taking our place in the sun with any other nation, even the great Gorman Empire.
Now, such being the case, the splendid discipline of our people at home is evident. They have sat for four years here without hardly raising a word of complaint on account of the lack of organization at home and the lack of any organized effort to
carry on our industries after the war. Even within recent days, when it is proposed to take the son of the widow, nineteen years of age, from the handles of the plough and put him in uniform, there is no complaint, even while there are 35,000 exemptions in Quebec still going through the courts, which no doubt, will not, perhaps, be reviewed or disposed of until about the time that this war has ended. The people are quite conversant with these matters; they are not quite so dull as some may think they are. They know very well that this Order in Council is intended to get a number of new men very quickly, but that it does not at all heal the differences that exist with regard to the men in Quebec who are over the age of 23.
Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Order. I hope the hon. gentleman will not


John Allister Currie: I am not going any further with that subject, Mr. Speaker. I have said enough. With regard to the matter of labour unions, hon. gentlemen have dealt with this question very ably and I do not think I can add to what they have said. I wish, however, to refer to one special class of labour which aliens in Toronto have entirely taken to themselves;
I refer to needle work. Enemy aliens have gone into the clothing factories in Toronto, organized labour unions of their own, taken possession of these factories so far as the clothing business is concerned, and driven English and Canadian women entirely out of employment. No Canadian women can get employment in these factories dominated by foreigners. Take the case of a woman whose son or husband has fallen on the battlefield and who desires to add to her little pension; or the case of a sister of a soldieT who has fallen. It is very hard for such women, who have -been earning their living by doing needle work, to see husky Austro-iGermans or Russians employed in these factories, sewing women's petticoats. Thousands of them are so employed in Toronto; the Government should conscript these aliens and make regulations as what employment they shall engage in. We ask these women to go to the land and produce. Hundreds of delicate girls of university education went out last year and worked in the fields in Grimsby, Hamilton, and elsewhere in Canada, helping to produce food, responding as beet they could to the call of the Crown. This year they are further organized. In my own riding local organizations have been established in every municipality known as Greater Produc-



tion Associations. All men and women in the respective municipalities belong to these associations, and they have taken a pledge that this year they will produce enough food to keep themselves and, if possible, t<? add to the Allied stores. The spirit of the people in that regard is splendid, But if we pass a regulation providing that alien enemies shall not be employed at occupations in which women cam be employed, at least 25,000 able-bodied men will be released in Toronto alone and can be put to work on the farms of Ontario. In this *way the labour problem would be partly solved-and the same would apply in the West and all over the country.
There are labour unions and labour unions. The members of such unions as the locomotive engineers, firemen's and trainmen s, and the like, are splendid citizens, loyal and true at heart, who work day after day and night after night wTith no rest and very little sleep, trying to do their duty to their country and to get the munitions to the seaboard. Other tradesmen, the shipbuilders and printers, too, are doing their best, But some labour unions have sprung up which consist almost entirely of agitators and with the foreign element as a backing and chief among them are unions connected with the great industry of mining. Sir, we have in Cobalt mines that are capable of producing enough minerals annually to pay all the expenses of the war and to pay our trade balances with other nations in gold. But we find that before the war was taken up by our Allies to the south, foreign agitators came from that country, entered these mines, and demanded such high rates of pay for the alien miners that most of the mines were crippled, and many were compelled to close down, not so much because the owners -who, in the great majority of cases, are loyal men-were not desirous of making big money, as because the workers demanded such high wages that the mines could be operated only at a loss. The result is that the minerals are not produced. I submit that the Government should take some action in this matter, not only with reference to the coal, but with reference to the gold and silver. As the Minister of Agriculture knows, wheat has been refused in exchange for our trade balance, but there is one thing that no nation will refuse to take or can, under the Hague Convention, or having regard to international usage, refuse to take, payment of their trade balance in gold. The efforts of the Government should, therefore, be directed to seeing that 
our gold and silver mines are operated to their full capacity, not standing still as many of them are to-day. If the owners do not operate them, then let the state operate them, as has been done in Australia and ' South. Africa.
These foreigners who constitute the members of the labour unions to which I have referred are represented by very clever English-speaking talkers who come here, and who belong to what are known as the International Socialists ^Society. They speak in the name of labour; they do not want the foreigner conscripted, because they are sent here financed by the alien enemy, to talk thus to the Government. These foreign socialists think that the only great people in the world are the now Russian government, who have so greatly injured the cause of the Allies. They speak openly of socialism and revolution, but they are not interned; many of them have not done an honest day's work in years and have had nothing at all to do with labour in the true sense. Many of these organizations in Toronto and in other centres are purely Socialistic organizations, have no connection with true labour, and should not be listened to as the voice of labour. The true labour of this country, represented as it is by thousands of men in the trenches, is loyal and willing to do its share in this war; you never hear a complaint from them. I submit that during the war no man who is an alien enemy or a neutral alien should be permitted to join any association or organization that has to do with the military actions or industrial life of the country. That would stop a lot of the kicking about aliens. I do not believe that Canadian labour unions composed of Canadians are raising any objection to the conscription of aliens.
The registration of man power has been referred to by the member for Colchester (Mr. McCurdy). I wish to refer to another registration which took place in this country. Two or three years ago the people were crying out for national service; they -wanted the Government to organize such a system of national service as prevails in France, where every man, woman and child in the State must do his or her duty to the State. But in this country we always take half measures-half measures are what you can expect from an irresolute people. We had a registration which cost the country half a million dollars-the money might much better have been given to the widows and orphans. It is true that there is a card

system to which we may refer for information. I suppose, but there was no real registration under that system. I listened very carefully to what the hon. gentleman (Mr. McCurdy) said about the further registration system which is proposed, but to my mind the people of the country are now saying that this registration business is nothing but camouflage- is that it is an attempt on the part of the Government to deceive the people into thinking that they are doing something, and they never intend getting anywhere with it. What is a real registration? There is a registration in Belgium, and, I think, in a number of European countries. The system of registration there is that, when a man becomes of a certain age, he has to go to the mayor of the city and register himself, and then he gets his papers. He cannot move out of his municipality unless he goes to the mayor and states what he is going to do, and gets a paper, or passport. By that method and form of registration, they have almost abolished such refined artists as we have in this country, such as burglar, because if a man is found outside of his own limits, unless that stranger goes and registers at the office of the gendarme, or the police, or the mayor, he is immediately arrested, it does not matter whether he is a Lord, a Duke, or what he is. The foundation of the registration of the man-power and woman-power, as well as the alien enemy, in this country should be in that form. What is the use of building pyramids on their ends? They will only topple over. If you are going to have a registration, instead of an Order in Council, for Heaven's sake, let us have a law. This Parliament is quite prepared to discuss a Registration Bill, consider it clause by clause, and pass it. Not only is this Parliament a very old institution, but it follows in its act the Mother of Parliaments, and Parliaments act in a certain way; they move just like the planets. Parliaments were organized and ordained hundreds of years ago that all laws should be brought in to the Table of the Clerk; that those laws should be read three times on three separate days and discussed. Since the days of Henry VtDI, it has been the regulation, that on three separate days the law has to be read, argued and discussed, so that there should be mature judgment, discussion and action.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Order.


John Allister Currie: I knew I would be kept
close to the line. I am arguing for the
&4i
very subject named in the resolution, I am taking exception to the Orders in Council and regulations to which reference has been made in the resolution and by the hon. member. I say, as a member of Parliament, that it is quite contrary to precedent to establish regulations of this kind by Order in Council, when the matter should be referred to and could well be dealt with by this House, after which it would become statute law of the land.
il again repeat that I have no hesitation in saying that the great majority of the people of this country, '90 per cent of them, are opposed to this form of legislation. The manhood and womanhood of this country are prepared to do their duty. The Government has only been moving behind the time. There are throughout the country hundreds and thousands of organizations that are doing exactly what the Government proposes they should do-encouraging production. A number of young men are going to be taken away. Their places have to be filled by somebody. We should register the alien, ascertain what he is doing and put him under Government control. Then the Government can take him out of employment in which women or old men could be engaged, and put him where necessary. That is the object of this discussion, and that is what the members of the Great War Veterans Associations require.
I have nothing to say about the men from Quebec. They have a perfect right to go to British Columbia, ot Ontario, or any other part of the country ir>
which they can find employment with sufficient remuneration for their labour. The people of Ontario, the mothers-, sisters and daughters of the men at the front, resent, to some extent, the stranger coming in and taking the place of the men who have gone overseas, but somebody must do the work, and I take no objection even to the alien enemy accepting any position in the country which he is capable of filling, as long as he takes it with the knowledge and under the regulation of the Government, so that we may know where we are going and what we are abou-t. The English-speaking women in the large cities, such as the city of Toronto, and certain .sections of this city, are becoming alarmed, afraid. I have received a great number of letters, not only from meir but from women -saying t-hat. they are beginning to be terrorized by conditions as they exist at present, because we have not placed the foreigners under any control. For that reason I say it is the immediate duty of this

Government, before it commences the registration of the mian-power of this country, to proceed to the registration of the enemy-alien; to open books in every municipality in this conntry, to see that he has fourteen or twenty days in -which to register himself, to give him his papers, and then to have a duplicate of those papers sent down- here so that we shall know exactly what employment he is in and whether or not we can place others in his employment. In the old 'country, what is the condition of the exemption law? It is not that a man is exempted because he is a farmer, or for a certain period of time during the war 'because he is in a certain occupation.; the question is: Can this man's place toe taken toy somebody who is not of military age, or can his place toe taken by a woman? We are not really in this war until we realize that is the rule that should govern us.. Moreover, it is only right that in the promulga-gation of these regulations which are going to take our young men, exception should be made that the young men of nineteen, twenty and twenty-one years1 of age who are the only sons of widows, .and especially those who are .farmers, should not toe taken and dragged from their homes to go to the war, leaving the work of operating the farm to. the women. I do not hesitate to say that, because all the militia laws and conscription laws of the -world say that the only son of a widow must be exempted. That is the French law, and it is a grand law. The 'Spanish law, the Prussian law, the Russian law, all make that exception. I do not think we would make any error or mistake in adopting the same principle. I have given my views on the subject. I am only voicing the sentiments of a very large element in this country-the female element and the element of the men who have gone to the war and who have returned.
Reference to the employment of the returned soldier has been made by my hon. friend from Colchester (Mr. McCurdy) who is a Parliamentary Secretary in one of the departments, and virtually a member of the Government, and surely I can speak in regard to that matter. I want hon. gentlemen to bear in mind that, with very few exceptions, the soldiers who have returned are men who have been wounded, men who have been very ill, or men who are over age and who have done their share in the war. In many cases, their efficiency is not one hundred per cent, although the hon. member for East Algoma (Mr. Nicholson) has said it should be one 
hundred per cent. Their efficiency may not be that, and it takes quite a little while for their nerves and actions to become normal. The people of Canada are great and big enough and have enough common sense to realize that and to know that too much cannot be expected of those men at once.	.


George Brecken Nicholson: I do not wish to be interpreted as having said that I feel that the returned soldiers when they return to work should bring their labour efficiency up to one hundred per cent.


John Allister Currie: I am very sorry I mistook what the hon. member said. I thought it was a slam at the returned soldier.


George Brecken Nicholson: I have tried to make it very clear that I am not going to take off my hat to any man in this House in my admiration of the work the soldier who has returned or the soldier who has not returned is doing, and I do not think it is fair I should be referred to in that way.


John Allister Currie: 
Mr. M. R. BLAKE (North Winnipeg):: Mr. Speaker, that we have had trouble with the alien enemy and foreigner within our gates goes without saying, but everybody has been beating about the bush instead of going directly to the point. If a man comes to me with a pain in his side or some other ailment, my first idea is to find out what is wrong, and then suggest a cure. The foreigner is not so much to blame for this trouble as our own people. It is a very sad fact that very few people, not only foreigners but men in every walk of life, can meet with but a small measure of success without having their heads turned. That, of course, applies to the foreigner also. When war broke out I had the honour of being medical officer to the 106th Regiment of Winnipeg, and I had hundreds of applications from these men whom we now call foreigners, to enlist. They were the first men to come into the recruiting office, but through the orders of the G. O. C. for the district we hesitated to take them lest they might be spies, or at all events not turn out satisfactorily when they got to the front. We were asked for 500 men from our regiment, and we took 685 to Valcar.tier, and I am satisfied we could have taken a full regiment if we had been able to enlist men of alien birth. But now matters have changed; these men have been receiving good wages, they have taken the place of our boys, and are enjoying prosperity such as they never knew before; they have achieved a gTeat pleasure of success and many of them have gained a competency. But that is not the only thing that has put them wrong. We have also to take into account the English-speaking so-called leaders of labour. Hon. gentlemen will all remember the time when, for whatever reason, the price of grain on the Winnipeg market went over three dollars a bushel.
Three men at least that I could name in Winnipeg-so-called leaders and directors of trade unions-went, down among these aliens and said: " Look at the tremendous price farmers are going to get for their wheat. Do not think of working for them unless you get five dollars a day during the harvest," and that disrupted the whole labour situation. We ought to have more stringent laws for dealing with seditious utterances such as these men have made. One of these men I had the honour of defeating in the last election; he has been converted since and is now in khaki; but the other two are still at it, though a little bit more quietly than they used' to be. I think it is high time the Government took these men in hand at once; it would certainly relieve the situation for Manitoba. These aliens are open to persuasion. The I. W. W. may have worked some influence among them-probably in the way of German propaganda-but they are docile at heart. I have the honour of representing probably the most cosmopolitan constituency in this Dominion, for in Winnipeg North thirty-seven languages are spoken.
I know these aliens well; they may fight among themselves, and1 many a head I have had to sew up, but they are not given to pursuing any aggressive policy against the English-speaking people who have been in this country for years; they are very amenable to argument and to direction, and have great respect for the law; they can easily have the fear put into them, and if these labour leaders who have set them wrong were put down for two or three years, or until the termination of the war, they would soon come right.
With regard to the curtailment of unnecessary industry, sixty per cent of the wheat in southern Manitoba is in the ground to-day; in probably three weeks more it will all be sown, and in ninety days more, which is the usual time from seeding to harvest, the fields will be ripe. There is therefore plenty of time for the Government to give careful consideration to what the hon. member for Neepawa (Mr. Davis) has said with regard to curtailing unessential industries. If these industries were closed down on July 31 that would give two weeks before harvest, which usually comes about the middle of August, for the men thrown out of work to rush to the farms and save the crops. We have heard1 all over this country talk of conscripting these men, and it comes mostly from people who have given very little thought to the subject and have little foreseen the

consequences of enforcing conscription among the foreigners. If these men were conscripted to the farms we have no means of making them do a reasonably good day's work. It is an old saying that a volunteer is worth two pressed men, and these men would undoubtedly take life very leisurely unless we had some way of keeping them on the go. If some one suggests that a returned soldier be sent to look after one or two men, there are very few farmers who want to be bothered with three men to do the work of two. It is an impossibility to conscript these foreigners to the farms, as far as the West is concerned, and it is for the West I am speaking; only on farms where they could be used in vast numbers would the scheme be practicable at all.
I have said that these labour leaders were of English-speaking origin, and I think that applies not only to the leaders of farm labour but to the labourers in mines as well. There are two main things to which our attention should be directed, and they are food and men. I believe that the men will not be got by the application of conscription to the foreigners, but I think our system in Winnipeg of registering alien enemies is a fairly complete one; I do not think there are many alien enemies living around Winnipeg who have not registered at the district registration office. That is not the whole number though. I have no doubt that those who are alien enemies are being looked after, and that there will be no trouble, by means of a registration system properly pursued, in getting every man and woman in this country registered.
The member for Winnipeg Centre (Mr. Andrews) has said he has had the pleasure of seeing France and England awaken, and I hope he is going to have the pleasure of seeing Canada awaken shortly. He has said that if the contemplated measures are put through we shall double our production by proper organization. I have no doubt, Mr. Speaker, that such are the facts, and that by closing non-essential industries it will be possible to send many men to work on the land. It has been said that of the men who will come under this draft, aged from nineteen to twenty-two, sixty per cent will be physically unfit. That does not give any very alarming figures, when we think of the possibilities in connection with the cultivation of the land, as well as development along other lines, by registration, by direction and by proper organization. To turn men into channels which will produce the

necessary food supplies is, to my mind, as essential almost, if not quite so important, as to secure the men.


Mr. T. HAY (Selkirk):: Mr. Speaker, I know the House is getting tired listening to this discussion, but it may be profitable in the end to pursue it a little further, and as I come from a constituency where there are a great number of foreigners I may, perhaps, be pardoned if I say a word.
I wish to state, first of all, that I have listened to the discussion that has so far taken place with pleasure, with interest and with profit, although I do not agree with all that has been said upon the subject. In the first place, I do not think it will be advisable to close up what we call non-essential industries, because the result would be, if that were done at the present time, to throw a great number of people Out of employment that could not be utilized in any other capacity. To close up such industries would not only result in injustice to a great number of people, but would fail in achieving the desired object. The closing up of non-essential industries will not accomplish anything in the way of production at this time, and yet I suppose the object of taking such a course would be to compel the men now employed in those industries to go on the farm. Now a great many of these men that would thus lose their occupations, in the first place, would not and could not make good on the farms in Manitoba. In the second place, their labour would be lost, and any help they might have yielded from an industrial point of view would be lost by their being thrown out of employment. In my belief such a policy would not work in the interest of the country at this tune. We must bear in mind that there is a period of reorganization coming, and if we dislocate the prevailing conditions by any such drastic method as has been suggested by some hon. gentlemen it will simply mean that we will have to reorganize later on in order to help the industries that would thereby be crippled to become properly and thoroughly established again. I feel that the Government is moving along right lines in obtaining a registration of the man-power and women-power of Canada. I am satisfied that through this means we will be better able to adjust labour and other conditions than by any other method, and we shall then know exactly where to lay our hands on the men needed for the different departments of agriculture and labour. Besides, in this way, we shall un-

doubtedly be in a far better position to deal with this question later on.
I want to say a word for the farmer before I close, or the alien enemy as he is called. There are a great many aliens in the constituency which I have the honour to represent, and in the constituencies surrounding Winnipeg, and we can hardly call these people alien enemies because they are naturalized British subjects at this time. A great many of them are making good, and are now doing a great work in the interest of the empire; we do not want to forget that. These men are producers of food on a large scale, which is one of the things we want to see carried out at the present time. Furthermore, I desire to point out that we invited many of these people to come to this country to help us in building our railroads, and to help in solving the labour problem in Canada. We have been glad to have these foreigners here, and we want to- show some consideration for them when they came here on our invitation. We should realize that they have done and are doing work that is in the interest of Canada. There is no shortage of labour perhaps at the present moment, but I desire to point out that from this out labour will be required in the upkeep and maintenance of our railroads, and we know that our railroads-and I believe in particular those that the Government are interested in-are in very bad shape at this time. We will need thousands of labouring men in this country to put our railroads into the shape in which we will be able to successfully handle the 1918 crop. We must utilize this class of labour for that purpose, and the Government should see that that labour is available when it is needed.
One word with reference to interned aliens. In my humble opinion, the men that are in detention camps at this time, the men that are disloyal to this country and are alien enemies in the true sense of the term, should, when peace is declared and we have won the victory for which we are now fighting, be deported by the Government to their own country.
The question dealt with by the resolution is a big one. It is one which will take considerable thought in order to solve the many problems connected with it arising out of labour conditions, and I hope that it will be thoroughly and efficiently dealt with in the best interests of the country.


Mr. F. B. STACEY (Westminster District) :: It has been said that the resolutions before the House present one of the most
difficult problems that the Government and Parliament will have to deal with. Perhaps I might isay that, in my humble opinion, it is the most difficult of all. I consider that it is easier to present and adopt the resolutions which passed the House last Friday than to digest and settle this big labour question, which is perhaps the greatest problem before the people and Government of Canada to-day. There are four resolutions, I think, before the House. I shall not attempt to speak with regard to all of them, but will merely offer a word or two concerning the first. Coming also from a province where the situation is most acute regarding Chinese labour, I do not think that the men in Eastern Canada can properly appreciate the great difficulties arising from that situation as it obtains today in British Columbia.
A man must go there and live for some years and then he will be convinced of the seriousness of the situation in regard to the question of Chinese labour. I sincerely hope that there will be no further importation of Chinese labour into that country for some time to come. Probably members of this House do not know that in certain cases the Chinese themselves are beginning to be landlords and that in some cases they engage native labour. The morals resulting therefrom cannot be discussed here tonight. I come to the resolution presented by my hon. friend from East Algoma (Mr. Nicholson):
That, in the opinion of this House, the marked shortage of labour for agricultural and industrial purposes in all parts of the country provides ample justification for the introduction of a complete and comprehensive system of compulsory registration and direction of the country's man-power.
4s I understand it, the registration clause of the resolution has been provided for, I take it amply provided for, and that perhaps. need not be further discussed. But, in regard to the Last five words, "direction of the country's man-power," it seems to me that the resolution introduced by the hon. member for Neepawa (Mr. Davis), given as No. 29 on the Order Paper, is the solution of the problem, or helps at any rate to accomplish the result aimed at. It reads:
That, in the opinion of this House, the maintenance and increase of production of foodstuffs and war material requires national control and direction of the capital and labour of the people, in order that non-essential business may be curtailed and our wealth and work directed to serving the state.
It is quite evident that such a proposition as that, in order to he considered at all.

must rest upon some very serious national condition, and I need not detain the House at this hour to explain that the serious condition exists. We all know that. We all admit that. We went into this war, and we went into, it from the sound conviction that it was based on justice and righteousness. In other words, we [believe in the legitimacy, righteousness and necessity of our part in the -war. Granting that position, 1 claim that everything else necessarily follows. I believe, Sir, that following the adoption of that premise, the dedication of the resources of the nation to the achievement of the object follows as a matter of course. I believe that everything that this nation possesses, every resource of manpower of material wealth at its command must in the last analysis be consecrated to adoption of the principle underlying the declaration of war. If that be so, and I do not suppose there is any disposition to dispute it, there should he no division in this House upon one side or the other. We are agreed, I take it, that .although we may have differed in the .past as to methods and as to the manner of approaching this subject, to-night, when we are .facing the situation .as it is on the continent of Europe, we are agreed upon, the fact that we must unite. In order to unite, in order to. make this a reality, I hang my hope upon a sentence uttered by .the right hon. the Prime Minister Sir Robert Borden.-"Industries essential to the winning of the war." I believe that phrase- has. been used also by other members- of the- Government. If that be done, then there must be, as I believe there will be, consideration given by the Government to the question involved in resolution number 29. Is there any man here who -believes that all the industries carried on in Canada to-day are essential to the winning, of the war?
The term; used ini the "loafer" law is " useful " but (I do not think that is strong enough. There may be a great many useful industries in time of peace which are not essential to the winning of the war, and these are the industries which should be in some measure curtailed. I think we should curtail certain industries and thereby release a large number of men who could devote their energies to the prosecution of industries that are essential. It may mean a good deal of inconvenience, some rearrangement

perhaps a great deal-but suppose it does, are we not all inconvenienced, and have we not suffered more than can be expressed from all the inconveniences and losses during the course of 
this war? Nothing should stand in the way of setting aside certain industries with the view of releasing men, capital, and the resources of the country for the prosecution of such industries as are essential, more especially agricultural production, the making of munitions, and the manufacture of certain commodities for the clothing and feeding of civilians and soldiers. I claim that we should set aside the production of things that we can do without. Let me read a letter that just came to hand during the last few days and which is written by an ex-member of one of the provincial legislatures. It reads:
During the last six days I have had no less than eight men here trying to sell1 oil and book my fall supply of gasolene. These men are not only wasting their own time, from a productive standpoint, hut are wasting gas and oil and adding very materially to the cost of the very article which we must use, to produce more food with. I will venture to say that oil could he sold for at least ten cents a gallon less in the companies were all forced to take these men off the road. Gasolene and fuel oil could also he reduced from three to five cents per gallon. And surely in this hour when our nation is In such terrible straits for food as well as men, for all kinds of productive work, that these men could be better employed.
I might say that at least three of these men were under 35 years of age. We are also deluged to death with machine men. All this must add to the cost of these articles and thus place a greater burden on the producing class, which is already heavily burdened'.
I think that as an addition to the Order in Council compelling all men to he usefully employed, that you should place some of these things as non-essential and thus drive the thin edge of the wedge to wipe this curse forever off the map.
That is the opinion and judgment of a man who is not in the House, who has not heard this discussion, and knows nothing of what has been going on here to-day. Jn regard to the alien question, I would only say that I do not see that it is wise or possible to conscript the alien for individual service. It may be advisable and possible to do so for national service, but it seems to me that there are great difficulties, indeed, grave difficulties, in the way of compelling an alien to work for an individual. It would take man for man to keep him at it. I am hoping that when we do know the mind of the Government on this question there may be such financial provision made that will apply to all men, perhaps in the way of a tax, perhaps in som/e other way, but formulated in some manner that will compel every man in this country to contribute his full .quota towards the salvation of the country and the prosecution of the war. And I am prepared to give the

Government every chance to work out such a scheme and not embarrass them unnecessarily. We have not yet heard from the Government as to their policy on this question, but I am disposed to believe that from the members thereof there will come such a solution as will satisfy the House and the country. Further, I may add that in my judgment it will be a very difficult thing, Sir, for the Government to introduce any legislation that in the opinion either of this House or the country at large will be too drastic. I think it will be a difficult thing for them, when we are facing the situation that obtains to-day, to introduce any legislation that, from one ocean to the other, will be regarded as too drastic. We are one, and whatever difficulties or differences may have divided us in the past, I claim, Sir, they 3'hould not separate us in the future, and I trust that there will be, growing out of thi3 discussion, and out of the spirit which prevails among true Canadians, a better spirit of unity and harmony than has been manifest in the past in certain sessions of this House.
May I be permitted to say one thing more? I have in my constituency one district composed almost entirely of French Canadians. Let me say that during the campaign I received from no audience a better hearing than was given to me by that body-or as we call them in the West " bunch "-of French Canadians.


An hon. MEMBER:: How did they vote?


Frank Bainard Stacey: I will tell you how they voted. It may be a little out of order, but the question has been asked, and if you will allow I shall answer it. They told me, before going to see them, that it was not much use for me to go there. They said: " Stacey, they are going to beat you by a hundred." " All right," I said, " I will go and see them anyway, I won't hurt them; I will go and see them and talk to them." I did so to the best of my humble ability. And, behold, Sir, when the Teturns came in the majority against me was not 100, but only 38. So, if we get more of them in the West, perhaps we shall have a somewhat similar result. Leaving all jokes aside- and I may be pardoned for speaking earnestly on this question, for I have a reason for doing so-I sincerely hope that no man on either side of the House will in the future utter what in his after moments he may be led to regret, and compelled to say before he goes to sleep at night: "I wish I had not said that."
Hon. C. J. DOHERTY (Minister of Justice); Mr. Speaker, I am sure we all realize that we have had an afternoon and evening which has added a great deal to our stock of information, at all events as regards the interest which is taken in this question of alien labour, more particularly of alien enemy labour, and the treatment of the alien enemy, by those who are represented by the hon. members who have spoken; and perhaps, most of all we have learned what a variety of opinion may be entertained with regard to this highly important subject. We have had suggestions that are valuable. We have had some that, perhaps, at first glance, look more catchy and attractive than they may prove to be practicable and feasible. But, upon the whole, I am satisfied that the Government will certainly be glad to give in all earnestness its serious consideration to the different views that have been put before us and to look at them, and into them, sympathetically, having before it the same purpose that, 1 am sure, has inspired the hon. members who brought these different resolutions before the House and those who, from one point of view or another, have spoken upon them.
I do not desire to detain the House at any length, but I do think that it :s worth while, in view of the apparent lack of knowledge on the part of quite a few hon. members who have spoken, of what has been done with Tegard to the control of the alien enemy in this country, that I should, for a few moments, point out some of the outstanding, leading and principal things that have been done in that connection. I venture to say that it is a mistake to assume that the Government since the outbreak of this war has been oblivious of the existence of the alien enemy in this country, and has been blind to the necessity of taking such steps and such measures in the way of precaution as circumstances might indicate to be necessary.
Let me recall to hon. members that at the outset of the war the Government took a position with regard to the presence of the alien enemy nationality within the country. We had an option at that time. It was open to us if we had thought, and those responsible for the Government of the United Kingdom and the general direction of the policy as towards foreign nations had thought, that it was in the interests of this country to seek to expel the persons of enemy alien nationality, I think it would have been quite within our right to take that course.

I think, too, that it would have been, and is to-day, within our right to intern the persons of enemy alien nationality within this country, more particularly, perhaps, those of them who being of military age and under obligation to do service according to the laws of their respective countries, might very properly he treated as persons that this State has an interest to see did not get away from this country and return possibly to perform those obligations towards their respective countries and take part in this war against us. Now, at the outset of this war, we took the position, not only that we would allow these people to remain within the country, but I might say at .the suggestion-and I might even say upon the insistence-of the authorities of the Mother Country we took the position that these people, those of them at all events who were of military age, should not be allowed to leave this country. And, taking that position, not only consenting that they should remain but actually preventing their departure, we felt bound, under these circumstances, so long as they violated no law' of this country, so long as they behaved themselves as good citizens within this country, to extend to them the protection of the law'. We announced that to them. We announced to them at the same time that those of them who by act or word show'ed a spirit of hostility to this country, or who did not conform to the laws of this country, would be interned. And large numbers were interned.


Samuel Hughes: For cause.


Charles Joseph Doherty: Some of them for cause. Quite a number of them were interned more largely under the inspiration of the sentiment of compassion, if I may use the expression, than because of hostility. At that time, when the labour market was glutted and there was a natural disposition to give the preference in the matter of employment to our own people, thousands of these aliens were starving in some of our cities. There were thousands of them in Montreal, great numbers of them in Winnipeg, large numbers in Port Arthur. In many instances we interned these people because we felt that, saying to them, "You shall not leave the country,'' we were not entitled to say, "You shall starve within the country." However that may be, a considerable number for cause, and an additional number for the reasons which I have given, were interned, until at one time we had some seven or eight thousand interned aliens. So that we were not

oblivious of the existence of aliens in this country, nor absolutely inactive with regard to looking after them.
Very shortly after the outbreak of war we established a very general system of registration. We established registration offices in the places throughout the country where there were considerable numbers of persons of alien enemy nationality. We summoned them to register-at Montreal, Sydney, Toronto, Winnipeg and cities throughout the West; among them, I think, two cities of British Columbia. We called for a general registration of persons of alien enemy nationality, and that registration was very thorough and very complete. But there came a time when the persons of alien enemy nationality were registered, and when the work was completed there remained only the task of supervising the reporting of those who had registered. We found that with one or two exceptions the work could be done as effectively through the police officers in the different localities, and we did not feel justified in keeping up offices and large staffs wholly for the purpose of taking these reports. Up to the present day, by the police officers in different parts of the country, under the supervision and direction of the Chief Commissioner of Police, track is kept of the alien enemies. The member for North Simeoe (Mr. Currie) referred to the county of Waterloo as a place w'here there had been no registration office. It is quite true that we did not have a registration office there, but the Chief Commissioner of Dominion Police appointed a representative to gather the necessary information with regard to persons of alien enemy nationality in that district and to take proceedings wherever that might be necessary. People who are familiar with the conditions in that county will, perhaps, see why we did not consider it necessary to establish a registration office there. The great bulk of the people of alien enemy nationality within that county were not people such as you have to deal with in the western provinces, or in the cities of Montreal, Toronto, and other places-that is, recently arrived immigrants. They were, in large volume-the bulk of them, I think- people who had resided there for many years, who were located on farms, established there, known to everybody. The purpose of registration is to acquire information about people, and when you are dealing with an old, settled community, where information with regard to everybody is easily procurable, there is not the same need

to call for registration as there is when you are dealing with a floating or unknown population. However, whether we were mistaken in that, particular-


John Allister Currie: Were there not many alien enemies in Waterloo of recent arrival? I understand that about twenty-five per cent of them had come to the country only within the last ten or fifteen years. I agree that a large number of them were old-timers, but were those registered who were of recent arrival?


Charles Joseph Doherty: We did not establish a registration office in that particular county, hut we did establish a system by which we were able to keep track of the alien enemy population there, just as throughout the rest of the country. It is well that we should have the suggestions which hon. gentlemen have thrown out as to what we might do that might be better; on the other hand, it is well also that hon. members should know that we have not been absolutely doing nothing, waiting to hear from them this evening.
Not only did we have that system of registration and of internment, but we had a very effective system by which the incoming and the out-going of the alien enemy was controlled. This was done under the direction also of the Dominion police, and largely through the instrumentality of the immigration officers. The coming and going was very closely watched and very effectively controlled. I must render testimony to the work of Sir Percy Sherwood. Ever since the war broke out he has maintained a most careful supervision over the action of alien enemies in this country. Reports were received from all quarters in the early stages of the war- in much greater number than they are received to-day-embodying suggestions of groups here and individuals there who were reported as being dangerous. All these suggestions were gone into and run to the ground, even in cases where on the face of them they appeared to be futile. The greatest possible care was taken. At the outset of the war, when we were apprehensive of trouble from the alien enemy resident in the United States-that country then being at peace-we had a most effective system of ascertaining what was going on there, and complete reports were received. That system, of course, is better when carried out quietly. As some evidence that we were not entirely idle, may I not say this: we are in the fourth year of the war; what have we had in the way of outrage or crime or violence from
the alien of enemy nationality? When this war broke out, I was very apprehensive on this subject, and so was tSir Percy Sherwood who set to work to make plans to guard against such occurrences. It goes to show probably that jur apprehensions were exaggerated; it goes to show that some of the fears expressed here tonight of what the alien enemy might do were exaggerated, but if also goes to show that effective methods to keep in touch with what was going on must have been resorted to. Strong testimony that there was somewhere an eye that was watching and a hand that was controlling is to be found in the fact that we have gone as far as we have, and that with this large population of alien enemy nationality, we have had so little of crime, of violence, proceeding from them in this country.
There are just two other subjects with regard to which I should like to say something. There is the question of our conscripting, or compelling to join in our military operations, persons of allied nationality residing in this country. That is a matter on which we have not been idle. Just after the conscription law was passed, following out a suggestion that had 'been made before it was passed and which, at that time, did not seem feasible;, we took steps to make provision, and there is presently a law in force in this country, enacted by Order in Council, under which, if . our allies were ready to take their men home, we provided the necessary machinery for rounding the men up and delivering them to their respective countries. That was passed at the instance of the Italian Consul, the French Consul, the Belgian Consul; and it was passed because we did not want to wait for a treaty. As hon. members all know, we are not in a position to make treaties directly. Everybody knows the slowness of diplomatic action. To; get in advance of the treaties, we passed this law at that time in the full expectation that those respective Governments would be in a position to avail themselves of it. Our part is all ready, and we are ready to carry it out. What happened, unfortunately, was that the respective Governments were not able to find transportation for their men. The trouble is not for lack of our being ready to do our part. Shortage of transportation is the only reason why those have not .'been sent home to join the forces of their respective countries.
As to our conscripting them, that is something we cannot do until the treaties are carried out, and the treaties have to be negotiated and finally executed through

the home authorities. As hon. members know, an agreement Ijias (been come to *with the United (States, lit is delayed awaiting the action of the United States Senate. There is no means by which we can hurry it. We have done the best within our power to press it As regards the treaties with France, Italy and Belgium, the British Government has, I understand, entered into treaties with those countries with regard to the people of those countries within the United Kingdom. They communicated with us some months ago, and we replied asking them to see that the treaty was so extended as to enable us to conscript the men of those nations within this country. I, myself, personally, on more than one occasion have cabled and written pressing for action upon the subject. I am not saying that by way of criticism of the authorities in the Old Country. Doubtless they have many things to attend to at the present moment. I mention the matter only for the purpose of bringing home to hon. members the fact that we are just as anxious as they can be to get that system into operation.
Just one more word upon the subject of how we can deal with the person of alien enemy nationality in the Hvay of compelling him to work. It has been said that we can intern him. Yes, we oan. It has been said that we we can make him register. Yes, we can. We have made him register and we have interned1 him, in the measure which it seemed to us useful to do it. I may say, before I leave the subject of internment, that when we had seven or eight thousand of those people interned, it was costing this country something over $1,500,000 a year. We found that the sentiment of every man who came into contact with the Austrian who was interned' was that he was absolutely not dangerous.


John Allister Currie: 
Charles Joseph Doherty: I shall get the exact
information.
(Mr. CURRIE: It was an Austrian officer who led that outbreak.


Mr DOHERTY:: The hon. member may be better informed than I am. Let us concede for a moment that one or two of them are dangerous. When I speak of the Austrian, I am speaking of the bulk of the people of that nationality. Although there was a glut in the labour market, conditions changed until there was, in this

country, a crying need for labour; we had people from* all parts of the country, as loyal people as we are ourselves, asking for the labour of those men, and we discharged them and allowed them to go out where they found employment. We felt it our duty then, in fairness to the working people of this country, to stipulate that these men should be paid the ordinary wage, and we also felt it our duty to stipulate, and we did stipulate, that they should not be employed where our own people were available for employment. It is over a year ago since these men have gone out, and we have had no word of complaint as to their conduct subsequent to their going. To-day our interned prisoners number from two to three thousand, and these are for the most part Germans; I regret that I cannot say anything like the same thing about them as I said about the bulk of our interned Austrians.
One hon. gentleman has spoken of these interned people in British Columbia as living on the fat of the land. I would be glad to show the hon. gentleman just how much it costs to feed these people in these internment camps, but I do not propose to say it here and let it go out to the public, because I do not want a despatch from Germany complaining that these men are not being properly fed. They are being properly fed. But if there is one thing of which we can speak with some pride it is the system by which this has been carried out and the results we have been able to obtain in the way of economy, while still treating these men in a way which leave us open to no complaint.
I just want to say one word on the subject of our compelling them to work. A good deal has been said about international law and there has been a good deal of contempt expressed for too great an anxiety to adhere to international law. I would like to point this out. Tn dealing with these people we are not dealing with prisoners of war, to which the citations from the Hague Convention referred which were made by the hon. member for North Sim-coe (Air. Currie). We are dealing, not with people captured in an act of nostility towards this country, but with people who came to this country peaceably, and who happened to be found in this country when war broke out. We had the right, and might have said to them, "Go away. We do not want you here." But, when we told them they could stay here, when we left them free to stay here, it became our duty, so long as they were guilty of no hostile

act or deed and so long as we had no reason to suspect their readiness' to obey the law, to treat them not as enemies but as people whom -we have been willing to keep within our gates. That did not deprive us of our right to intern them if in any particular case there was ground for suspicion of their conduct; nor even if at a certain stage we had reached the conclusion that all of them were dangerous, did it prevent us from interning them all. It is open to us if we think it wise to intern them. When we did intern them, unless we are going to depart from the very well settled rule of international law, which I may say the United Kingdom has not seen fit to depart from, we have no right to compel them to work. The hon. member for North Simcoe read certain citations from The Hague Convention with regard to prisoners of war, and there is no doubt that he cited them correctly. If we were dealing with prisoners of war, with soldiers taken in performance of their duty as soldiers, and made prisoners of war, all those rules would apply to them, and there is no doubt that we have the right to compel men so taken to labour if we pay them the ordinary wage of a soldier. But the situation is absolutely different when, you are dealing with civilian residents of this country, whom this country may find it necessary to intern by reason of the apprehension even of their being dangerous; you are not then dealing with a prisoner of war.


John Allister Currie: The extracts I read dealt with the rules governing alien enemies.


Charles Joseph Doherty: If I understood the
citations, the hon. gentleman was reading extracts with reference to prisoners resident in an alien enemy country.


John Allister Currie: It referred to clause 5. I read the whole thing.


Charles Joseph Doherty: The hon. gentleman
may have understood it differently from what I did, but I would suggest to him that if be will read over the rules of the Hague Convention carefully he will see that what those specific rules have in contemplation is the 6oldier prisoner of war, and they all indicate it; those rules state specifically that you must feed your prisoner of war the same as you feed your own soldiers.


John Allister Currie: Will the minister direct
me to the clauses of the Hague Convention dealing with those who are not soldiers?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I quite agree with the hon. gentleman that there is no clause in the Hague Convention dealing with civilian prisoners at all. We have to fall back upon the accepted rule of international law, that you may deal with civilian prisoners in the manner which I have indicated. You may say to him, " You shall not stay in the country." Or you may let him stay in the country if you choose, and if you let him stay in the country you are not entitled to punish for being a prisoner of enemy nationality. You may intern him for your protection, that is your right, but when you do that, and cut him off from the means of earning his livelihood, you have to give him his bread and butter and his clothes, and you cannot compel him to labour, as you can compel the soldier prisoner of war under the rules- of the Hague Convention.
I may state that we have had repeated remonstrances from Germany through the United States consuls charging us with subjecting these men to compulsory labour, and the answer we sent back-and, of course, it was the truthful answer-was that we were not compelling them to labour, their labour was voluntary. We did not feel in a position to question the doctrine laid down by Germany that these sections of the Hague Convention did not apply to civilian prisoners; we acquiesced in that view and Great Britain acquiesced in that view.
It might be interesting to the House to learn what they do in Great Britain in regard to compulsory labour. We have heard a good deal about what Germany does, but I am quite sure that hon. gentlemen do not intend to hold Germany up to us as the model that we should follow. I fully appreciate the absolutely natural feeling of irritation that we all share when we see the advantage that is resulting to these people from the fact that our own young men have gone forth to do their duty and fight. But, after all, is it not a part of our duty to control our feelings? Is not one of the things that we want to preserve through this war the reputation which we have been given to boasting of-too much, perhaps-the reputation for the spirit of fair play under all circumstances. I would rather point to the model of Great Britain, and I do not think Great Britain is treating these interned men in any spirit of mawkish sentimentality or because she wants to be ethical with an unmoral people, as one hon. gentleman said this afternoon. She is doing this, no doubt, in recognition of her international law obligations, and also under the direct menace of Germany that otherwise there would be reprisals and it would be worse for us.

It is all very well to say that our men over there cannot be treated any worse than they are. I do not want to extenuate many instances of ill-treatment that have come to our knowledge, but I do know this: that for the long period of time before the United States came into this war we had the advantage of having the German internment camps inspected by the United States consular officers in that country, just as those same officers inspected the camps in this country and reported to Germany. I must say that the reports were on the whole favourable. There were instances where there was ground for complaint and in some of those instances the complaint was listened to and conditions remedied. It is all very well for us sitting at home here to say: " Oh, we don't care. We are mad with the alien enemy here; let us get after him. They cannot treat our boys any worse than they are already treating them." But it is our boys over there who will have to bear the brunt of it. I am a stickler for international law, but I must confess that that argument appeals to me in the strongest possible way. I hold in my hand a despatch from London, dated March 5, 1918, telling how they treat these men in England. It is as follows:
Downing Street, March 5, 1918.
My Lord Duke,-
I have the honour to transmit to Your Excellency, for the information of your Ministers, a copy of a memorandum which has -been prepared at the Home Office as to the procedure followed in the United Kingdom with regard to the internment and treatment of enemy aliens. This information has been furnished in reply to an enquiry made by the Government of New Zealand, and it is considered that a statement of the policy of His Majesty's Government in regard to these matters might be of interest to your Ministers.
2.	In connection with the memorandum I should explain that interned enemy subjects are not compelled to work. A number of them work as volunteers for wages, both inside the camps on such industries as can be organized with advantage, and also outside the camps, in quarrying, roadmaking, farm work and reclamation of land. Some hundreds of interned civilians in addition have volunteered for the special working camps, where they are employed in timber-cutting and constructional and other labouring work. Besides these, between 1,500 and 2,000 have on their own application been sent out to employers on license from the camps, either singly or in small groups, for employment in farm work or industries of national importance. In every case the work is undertaken voluntarily, and the alien is at liberty to give it up and go back to the camp from which he came if he so desires.
3.	As regards male enemy subjects who are exempted from internment or, in the case of those above military age, from repatriation, it was decided early last year that all these, if

physically fit, must do work of national utility as a condition of retaining their exemptions, and measures have since been taken through the Ministry of National Service and the Employment Exohanges to place them in suitable occupations. Here again, however, there is no absolute compulsion ; the alien, if unwilling to undertake the work offered him, has always the option, if of military age, of going to an internment camp, or if above military age, of being repatriated; and in no case is an alien enemy required, as a condition of retaining his exemption from internment or repatriation, to undertake work on munitions or other work of such a kind.
I have the honour to be,
My Lord Duke,
Your Grace's most obedient, humble servant,



WALTER H. LONG.

[Stage Direction]
Governor General His Excellency
THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE, K.G., G.C.M.G., G.C.V.O., Etc., Etc., Etc.
The great point that I want to bring out is the absolute recognition by Great Britain that work of that kind is voluntary. Now Great Britain is a better country for us to go to for an example as to treatment of persons of enemy alien nationality. Great Britain does not require these persons to work unless she sees good reason for it, and I call attention to the words employed in the despatch which this is described " as the policy of His Majesty's Government in regard to these matters ". We must also keep in mind that we are not an absolutely independent nation, that the United Kingdom is the nation with which other countries deal, and that it would be becoming and proper that we should give some thought to the policy of the United Kingdom upon a matter of this sort. Because it must be remembered that reprisals will not fall on the Canadian alone; they will also be inflicted on the British subject from wherever he has come. So that I think that in so far as it is suggested that we should adopt a policy of compulsory labour to be	imposed	on	the person ofenemy alien	nationality,	there	is verygood ground at all events for us to pause before we decide upon it. Do we want to put ourselves outside the pale of the law? Do we want to put ourselves outside the pale because	Germany	is	there?	Do wewant to be in the same class with Germany, or would we rather stand within the pale, and so standing be in the company of the Mother Country? But when you get down to the	practical	question,	as one
hon. gentleman from Winnipeg said here this evening, how are you going to make men work? You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. What

will be the result of your law if the alien does not want to work? You will have to send him to jail, or possibly intern him. Which is the best for this country, to have these persons of alien enemy nationality living in internment camps at the expense of the country at a time when there is a great call for labour here, or to have them working on productive labour which is to the advantage of Canada and supporting themselves, even if they get large, wages? Of course, we may so control or arrange matters that we may see to it that these people do not unduly profit to the detriment of our own people; but upon the abstract question of conscripting the labour of persons of enemy alien nationality and making them work, while it sounds very satisfactory, yet when you come to carry out the idea and send them, out to work, what kind of a day's work will you get from men of that kind? Surely it would not be suggested that we should send a slave driver out with the alien armed with a whip to keep him working; and, short of doing that, what course can you pursue? You can either, as I have already stated, send them to jail or you can intern them.
I do not say but that perhaps I would be anxious, just as anxious as any hon. member, to find some equitable and practical method1 by which everybody in this country, including this particular class, should be compelled to contribute to the support of our effort by taxation or by some other means. I think I can safely say, speaking for myself, and I think perhaps I am also safe in saying I can speak for the Government, that the different suggestions thrown out this afternoon will certainly have careful consideration. More than that they are the very things that are filling our own minds all the time, because we are seeking to discover methods that will properly and effectively deal with this exceedingly difficult question.
I have occupied a longer time than I intended when I rose, but I did think it worth while to remind those who knew it before, and to inform those who perhaps were not aware of it, of what has been done with regard' to this matter, and of the very serious questions that arise in connection, at all events with one of the suggested remedies. Now there can be no objection to the motion passing, because it suggests only a consolidation of existing laws. There may be advantages in that, and there certainly cannot be any evil results from it. I would rather hope that good will flow
from the discussion which we have had, inasmuch as it has furnished us with many suggestions that I believe will give room for profitable thought.
Daniel Duncan McKenzie: Mr. Speaker, I desire only to detain the House for a very few moments in connection with this resolution. It is mot very clear to me as a lawyer what is intended by the motion of the hon. member for Comox-Alberni (Mr. Clements'. The only law that I am familiar with in connection with alien labour is the Alien Labour Act, and if that is the law that the hon. member wants to consolidate, its consolidation will not .be effected by Order in Council. If there are other alien., labour laws which required consolidation, or which should be consolidated, I am not familiar with them and the hom. gentleman did not allude to them. The resolution is a somewhat broad proposition, and having listened with the greatest attention to the hon. gentleman's remarks, I am forced to the conclusion that he had in his travelling bag a great many things that had very little relation to the subject. I cannot for the life of me see the connection, for instance, between this resolution and the conscripting of labour in the province of Quebec. It would simply appear to me that the hon. gentleman was making a stool-pigeon of the resolution with a view to having a fling at that province.


John Allister Currie: The hon. gentleman was
probably not in the House when Mr. Speaker announced that it had been decided to discuss all the resolutions on the Order Paper bearing on the subject at the same time as the motion standing in the name of the hon. member for Comox-Alberni (Mr. Clements).	,


Daniel Duncan McKenzie: I have been for quite
a number of years in this House with the hon. member for Comox-Alberni, and I have always found him to have enough to do in dealing with his own little affairs in his own way. I must remain convinced that my mind is still strong enough to persuade me that the hon. member was dealing entirely with his own resolution, and with what was in his own mind when the Speaker gave a wider scope to the discussion. And what I have stated was what he undoubtedly had in mind himself. However, before going any further into the matter, let me say that my mind is so constructed that I find it difficult not to criticize a man who is doing something that is not consistent with his history and with his career, and

who does not seem to be straight and honest and open. If there is anything in the world that the member from British Columbia should keep mum on it is the question of labour, the question of aliens, and the question of colour and race and creed in respect to labour matters. I remember well when I sat behind the Government in this House up to the time of the change of Administration in 1911, that we heard a great deal from the Pacific province about a "white British Columbia." I remember it well, and I have with me the Hansard containing a report of a discussion in the early paTt of January, 1908, when the famous telegram of whether the Conservatives were for a white British Columbia, or were absolutely opposed to anything in the colour line, was sent.


John Allister Currie: The hon. gentleman was
no<t a member during that session.


Daniel Duncan McKenzie: Perhaps so, but he was here shortly afterwards if he was not here then. British Columbia sent us a solid representation of Conservatives in 1908. I think the hon. gentleman was here then; perhaps he was not. He does not say himself that he was not. I think the hon. member came here in 1908.


Herbert Sylvester Clements: The hon. gentleman is quite mistaken; it was in 1911 that the solid representation came here.


Daniel Duncan McKenzie: I do not quite understand the reference. This telegram was the basis for sending a solid representation from British Columbia in 1908.


Rodolphe Lemieux: And then it was a forgery.


Daniel Duncan McKenzie: It was said to have been a forgery, hut it was allowed to do its work. It was not until after the election it was discovered to be a forgery. After the election, when we came to this House, there was some discussion, and it turned out that it was a forgery. Up to that time nobody in this Parliament had any knowledge that there was anything spurious or improper about it. But it was brought to the notice of the House, in the discussion on the Address soon after the election of 1908. The discussion is in Hansard, and any body who cares to read the speech of the then leader of the Opposition, now the right hon. leader of the Government (Sir Robert Borden), will find his reference to it. I believe my hon. friend from Comox-Alberni came here first in 1908. He does not dispute that. At any rate, my recollection of him goes that far. We had a telegram,

whether proper or genuine or not, and these gentlemen came here basing their principles and their policy upon that declaration. When they were in opposition they were full of the fight. But the day came when there was a change and they found themselves behind a government which had power to do the things that they said our government had power to do. From that time down to this day, year after year, session after session, the same coloured races, the same Chinese, the same Japanese, were good enough for my hon. friend from Comox-Alberni. We have heard not a word from him complaining about these laws. He has not a word to say about the consolidation of regulations which are good enough for him. But before that his party in the British Columbia Legislature, under the Government which he was supporting, passed forty-two fake Acts which they knew they had no business to pass, which they had not the slightest authority to pass. They were playing a fake game, and my hon. friend was behind them. He never raised a voice or a hand in protest against it. It was simply a scheme to deceive the people of British Columbia into supposing that they were passing laws and sending them to Ottawa when they knew that the Minister of Justice would have to advise that they were ultra vires of the provincial legislature as they were ultra vires of this House even if we attempted to pass them. But still they went on doing this with the knowledge of my hon. friend, doing it for political purposes and taking all the benefits that were coming to them from it. He never complained. But now, when there is perhaps enough foreign element in this Government to justify him in pulling out the old knife again, he is prepared to slash it around, to find fault, and to say that there must be a different colour. The sun must rise in a different way, the electric light in British Columbia must flare a different light upon the situation. Because, forsooth, there are a few Liberals, or men who were Liberals, and who, I hope, are Liberals still, in this Government, he thinks it gives him a justification to introduce this question again. I would say to the hon. member that if he expects labour to have confidence in him and his party, if he expects the man who has no capital, no backing, no strength, except the strength of his arm, and of the brain that the Lord put in his head, to be behind him, to believe him, and to have confidence in him, he must place himself behind legislation that is true, straight, honest and

simple, and such that the man who runs may read. If he expects to enlist the favour of the labouring men of this country, he must show genuine earnestness in the support of the interests of labour.
There are new men here, whom I should not accuse of anything wrong, because I do not know their histories. But I know the men who have been here since 1908, and I know that they have been playing the political game as strongly as it could be played, and who care nothing for labour, ex-cepfor the use they can make out of labour to further their own political ends and purposes. I submit to my hon. friend from Comox-Alberni that I simply regard this motion to-day as another scheme like the passing of these 42 or 50 nonsensical Acts of the Legislature which they sent here to be disallowed, and which were passed for the purpose of fooling the labour men and making them believe that something was going to be done. That is the history of the Tory party in British Columbia, and thht is the history of the hon. member himself, in so far as labour in that country is concerned. Upon that history he must stand or fall. He cannot be allowed to come to us to be redeemed, washed, and made whiter than snow upon a death-bed repentance of this kind. I would not sleep well to-night if I should allow my hon. friend to escape with a history of that kind behind him, and not tell our friends from British Columbia and these new and zealous men who have come here lately, and who are, perhaps, ignorant of the history of their predecessors in connection with matters of this kind, what the actual facts are. For the betterment of the matter, I would tell them to begin at Jerusalem, begin at British Columbia. Establish a clean, straight, consistent record of your own in regard to the matter, and then come to us for the betterment of the situation. We can assure hon. gentlemen that we are with labour every time and will give consistent laws and regulations, in so far as they can possibly be given, to both capital and labour. It is of the highest importance for us that the best possible relation and the greatest degree of confidence should exist between capital and labour. There can only be confidence and consistency and true living and life in this country by all acting upon the square, acting in a straightforward way, saying what they think, and governing themselves accordingly. That is the spirit of life, that is the practice that I would like to see carried out, that has always been the 65
policy of the Liberal party and that is why to-day everywhere in this country labour is looking to that grand old party for what is necessary fbr the upholding of its hands in connection with the industries of the country.
I have only one word more to say. As far as the province from which I come is concerned, we have no trouble with alien labour. I think that a great part of the difficulty with alien labour in other parts of the Dominion is due to the fact that, perhaps, a proper example is not set before it by the people who inhabit the country and who are really Canadians or English-speaking people. I say that with the greatest possible respect. The men who come to this country should familiarize themselves with our laws and be assimilated by and become familiar with the regulations, laws and practices of our own people. In the province from which I come we have a very excellent class of labour.
We have splendid characters in our miners, good, Christian, well educated people. And foreigners coming in nave noticed what our own people do, how they observe the law, keep the Sabbath day, go to church, pay their debts, and dress well. They notice that these things are being done in Nova Scotia, and they dare not, to any great extent, depart from them. For that reason, within a few years after the foreigner comes to our province, he becomes a man who is hard to distinguish from the person who has been with us for a great many years. Unfortunately, when this terrible war came upon us, we had hundreds, if not thousands, of these people in our province. We had a few internments, but I think for reasons given by the Minister of Justice to-night, that they were not permitted to go away; and there was some fear, perhaps not greatly justified, that they should not be allowed to work in the mines, because any one wanting to be mischievous could make a great deal of trouble in a coal mine, causing disaster and probably loss of live, and it was thought that some of these foreigners might perhaps be willing to sacrifice their lives for the purpose of causing serious destruction; and there was fear, perhaps unjustifiable fear, on the part of our own men against allowing them to work in the mines. For that reason, some, not a great many, were interned.	But, taking them all in all, we have no complaint to make. We have no trouble with them, and although hundreds and no doubt thousands of aliens are work-



ing in the steel works and coal mines^ and generally in our larger industries, I know of only one case where it was rumoured that one of them threatened or remarked that, "Some day the mine wrould be on fire." I do not know whether he meant anything by it, but he was interned. That is the only case of that kind that we have had, and that man is still interned in some part of the province. Coming from that part of the country and knowing these people, and sitting in this House while this discussion is going on. it is very likely, as many of them are watching events, that they would think ill of me if I did not bring to the notice of the House that in the province of Nova Scotia we have no such trouble as has been spoken of in British Columbia. And so far as general labour is concerned, as that subject has been touched upon, we have every reason to be proud of the conduct of the labouring classes not only in Nova Scotia but in every part of the Dominion and not only in the Dominion but in every part of the Empire. When we compare the way in which the poor man is exercising the power of his capital with the way in which the millionaire is exercising his in food production and other things, I think the labouring man is far superior in his patriotism and sacrifice to his wealthy competitor. He has nothing to put forward, as I said b.efore, but the brain in his head and the strength in his arm. And, knowing, as we do, that they could have given us a great deal of trouble, 1 think we have reason to be proud and thankful, and to recognize with appreciation and praise what our labouring men in every part of the Empire, and particularly in Canada, have done.
If there is any necessity for the consolidation of any law6, or if any better condition of things can be brought about by consolidation of them, I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that I have no objection at all. But I must say that I do not know what I am agreeing to when I am agreeing to a consolidation of laws in respect of alien labour in this country, when, apart from the Alien Labour Act, I am not aware that there is any law at all. However, if there is not, no harm can happen.
I must congratulate hon. gentlemen who took part in this debate. I have watched it very closely, and I am particularly proud of our new members for the high tone to which they kept this debate and the very excellent manner in which they have expressed themselves. I am sure we have every reason to hope that while such men remain with us, not only the interests of

labour, but every other Canadian interest, will be well maintained, and our reputation as a Parliament will not be impaired.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion


Herbert Sylvester Clements: In conclusion, I would like to say a word. I appreciate very much indeed the acceptance of the resolution by the Government, and I sincerely hope that legislation along the line of the resolution will be brought down ere long. I have no thought of replying to the hon. member (Mr. McKenzie), who has just taken his seat. I came into this House some four years before the hon. member did, and neither he, nor any one else, can accuse me of ever being a partisan in this House. I should like to have seen the hon. member for once in his life, when dealing with this resolution, get away from that partisanship which he always exhibits. That is all I have to say to the remarks of the hon. gentleman.
Motion of Mr. Clements agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. Doherty for the adjournment of the House:


Daniel Duncan McKenzie: What business will be taken up to-morrow?


Mr. SIFTON:: The War Appropriation,
probably.
Motion agreed to and House adjourned at 12.15 a.m., Tuesday.
Tuesday, April 23, 1918.