1915-03-30

DOMINION ELECTIONS ACT AMENDMENT.

[Stage Direction]
Hon. C. J. DOHERTY (Minister of Justice) moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 110, to amend the Dominion Elections Act. He said: This is one of the Bills which was reported by the select special Committee appointed to consider the advisability of amending the Dominion Elections Act and the Dominion Controverted Elections Act. In this Bill, they propose first to repeal certain provisions in force in Saskatchewan and Alberta which permit a voter presenting himself at the polls after the lists have been completed to vote by simply swearing as to his qualifications. The same provision holds good in the Yukon, and it is not proposed to alter it as regards that territory. In the view of the committee, the conditions which justify it have ceased to exist in the two provinces mentioned. The next provision of the Bill is to make an amendment with regard to deferred elections. The change effected by "the Redistribution Act in certain constituencies altered the names of those constituencies as they appear in the present Act, making the provision to defer the election no longer applicable. The Bill does not purpose to provide for deferred elections in the entire portion of the constituencies that have been composed of parts of those constituencies in which they were previously permissible, but only in these new constituencies where conditions require it. There is also an amendment to make provision with regard to cases where a candidate may die after nomination, to assimilate the condition prevailing in the provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan to that prevailing in the rest of the country. There is a provision to prolong the hours of polling from eight to six instead of from nine to five, and a provision requiring employers to give an extra hour over and above the noon hour to their employees to 
enable them to vote, without making any deduction in their pay. There is also a provision - for correcting an error in the French version of one of the sections of the Act as it now stands. Furthermore, the schedule containing the nomination paper is proposed to be amended so as to require the candidate nominated to insert in the * nomination paper an address at which all processes or papers with regard to the election, or any contestation of the election, may be served upon him.
Motion agreed to, and Bill read the first time.

[Stage Direction]
Hon. C. J. DOHERTY (Minister of Justice) moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 109, to amend the Dominion Controverted Elections Act. He said: Dealing with the provisions which this Bill proposes to make as a whole, I may say their purpose is to simplify the procedure in controverted elections and to expedite the trial. There are provisions with regard to the proof of qualification of the petitioner, which make the production of the list upon which a man figures as an elector in the district conclusive proof of his qualification. The forms of the petition and the counter petition are modified so as to make them more simple, while at the same time giving more specific information to the party against whom the petition is brought or the counter petition is made of the nature of the charges intended to be covered by it. There is a provision with regard to deposits for the purpose of making the receipt for a deposit conclusive evidence of the making of it. There is also a modification of the present requirements of advertising the petition, for the purpose of simplifying it. The delays for service and the delays for answer are also proposed to be shortened, and a delay of fifteen days is fixed, after which a day may be fixed for trial. There is a provision that, if neither of the parties choose to have a day fixed for the trial, the court, after the expiry of thirty days, after notification and application by the clerk, may fix a day upon which the parties shall be bound to proceed to trial. Inasmuch as preliminary objections are entirely done away with, of necessity the appeal from any judgment on such objections disappears; therefore the provision in the Act for appeal to the Supreme Court is amended by striking out any appeal from judgment on preliminary

objections. Then there is a provision that petitions shall not abate or be dismissed or withdrawn upon .the death, inability, or withdrawal of the petitioner, and provision is made to enable the proceedings to be taken up and carried on. There is an amendment with regard to prosecutions under the provisions which subject parties to prosecution for offences against the Dominion Elections Act otherwise than by contestation, requiring that any witness that the trial judge indicates as being necessary or useful witnesses on such prosecution shall be summoned, as well as all other witnesses considered [DOT] necessary by the prosecuting attorney.
Mr. MARCIL:: Is any definition of agent given in this Bill?


Mr. DOHERTY:: The Bill does not undertake to make any definition of what constitutes an agent.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to, and Bill read the first time.

[Stage Direction]
On the Orders of the Day being called:
Sir WILFRID LAURIER:: May I ask the Minister of Justice if the commission appointed to investigate the claims of pelagic sealers in British Columbia has made its report?


Charles Joseph Doherty: The report has not yet been made, but I understand that the investigation has been completed and that the commissioner is at present considering his report.



SUPPLY.

[Stage Direction]
The House in Committee of Supply, Mr. Blain in the Chair.
Charges of management-printing, advertising, inspection, express charges, etc., $42,000.
["The exportation of electric power is governed by the Privy Council, which fixes the rates and conditions.\nAt one o'clock, the committee took recess.\nThe committee resumed at three o'clock, Mr. Sevigny in the Chair.\nProgress reported."]
Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:: What is that advertising for?	[DOT]


Hon. W. T. WHITE (Minister of Finance) :: For advertising in connection with loans; it is a very small amount. The express charges are, of course, in connection with the movement of Dominion notes, currency, etc.
Charges of management-commission for payment of interest on public debt, purchase of sinking funds, $60,000.


Alexander Kenneth Maclean: Will the minister explain this item?


William Thomas White: We have an arrangement with the Bank of Montreal to act as our 1084
agent in London. The details of the agreement have been before the House in the past. There has been no change in the last couple of years. This item covers the commission for payment of interest on the public debt and for purchases on sinking fund account. It is simply a routine item covered by the agreement we have with the bank.


Alexander Kenneth Maclean: I see there is an increase of $10,000.


William Thomas White: The debt, especially during this year, will very substantially increase.
Brokerage on purchase of sinking funds,$5,600.


Alexander Kenneth Maclean: Does that gc to the Bank of Montreal agency?


William Thomas White: No, that would be the fee charged by brokers on purchasing for the sinking funds in the open market.


Alexander Kenneth Maclean: 'It does not cover the case where the Bank of Montreal is acting as Government agent?


William Thomas White: It is not paid to the Bank of Montreal. It is the brokerage for the purchase of securities for sinking fund account.	.
Removal of foreign and uncurrent coin from circulation, $15,000.


Alexander Kenneth Maclean: Has the minister any statement to make as to the quantity of foreign coin removed from the country this year?	.


William Thomas White: The amount exported for the 11 months of the current fiscal year was $1,534,009.16 and the charges paid, $10,951.79. My hon. friend no doubt knows that we have an arrangement with the banks under which, for a small commission and I think the payment of the cost of expressage, we export American silver.
Departments generally-Contingencies-Care and cleaning of Departmental buildings, including amount of $50 each to E. Snowden and W. H. Jeffrey for firing noon gun, $175,000.


Mr. GRAHAM:: I suppose that Mr. Snowden and Mr. Jeffrey do not have to pass a civil service examination for firing the gun?


William Thomas White: Since the war has broken out it might be advisable to consider whether they should not do so.


George Perry Graham: Their names appearing here would indicate that they did not have to pass an examination.


William Thomas White: That is an historic item it has been included for many years


Mr. DEVLIN:: Was it necessary to rent a number of additional buildings?


William Thomas White: My hon. friend will surmise . that this Government would not spend any money that was not absolutely; necessary. I believe it was necessary to rent the buildings. Of course, my department has charge only of the caretaking after they have been rented.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: My hon. friends, before 1911, condemned the Government then in power for renting additional buildings in the city.


William Thomas White: Before I can pass judgment on the merits of the case, I would have to be acquainted with all the facts. .


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: Has a new High Commissioner been appointed?


William Thomas White: No.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: Is one likely to be appointed in the near future?


William Thomas White: The Prime Minister would be better qualified to answer that question. I believe the Acting High Commissioner will remain there for some considerable time yet.


Charles Marcil: Is the Paris office still under the control of the High Commissioner, oj is it independent? I understood the Paris office had to report by way of London?


William Thomas White: I understand that that is not the case now. The Paris office is under the Prime Minister, I think.


Alexander Kenneth Maclean: While the Prime Minister is away, possibly the Minister of Finance will tell us who is to be appointed to the High Commissioner's office?


William Thomas White: I am afraid I shall have to leave that to be announced by the Prime Minister.


Wilfrid Laurier: Will he announce ht?


William Thomas White: In his good time he announces nearly everything that is necessary.


Wilfrid Laurier: In his good time, yes.


George Perry Graham: Will the minister tell us who would like to be appointed?


William Thomas White: Are we trying to get
through by Saturday night?
IMr. W, T. White.]
Civil Government-Department of Insurance -salaries, $28,025.


George Perry Graham: There has been some readjustment in the Insurance Department, I think.


William Thomas White: Mr. Fitzgerald having retired, Mr. Finlayson was appointed Superintendent of Insurance. There is no substantial change in the staff. There will be one or two promotions in order to meet the new situation.


George Perry Graham: Who are the inspectors of the Insurance Department?


William Thomas White: Mr. Finlayson does some inspecting. Then there is Mr. 0'Rei'ly, Mr. Watson, Mr. MacTavish, Mr. Gilliland, and Mr. Warwick.


George Perry Graham: Which one inspects in Montreal?


William Thomas White: I think Mr. Finlayson himself.
Civil Government-Miscellaneous-grant to the National Battlefields Commission, $122,000.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: What work is it proposed to carry on this year out of this appropriation?


William Thomas White: About six weeks ago the Prime M-'nister, the Minister of Public Works, myself and other ministers were invited down to the offices of the Commission to inspect the plans which had been prepared. They were no-t quite complete, but will be almost any day. The Chairman of the Commission told me that he hopes that the very full and comprehensive report which is being prepared will be ready for submission to the Government within a month or six weeks. I had hoped to lay it on the table of the House before the end of session, and to invite members down to see the plans. I have not' heard anything further about the matter, but I believe the work is almost completed. I shall be very glad to have any hon. gentlemen come down and see the plans when they arrive.


Wilfrid Laurier: The Commission have feported to me that they have been in correspondence with the Department of Militia with the object of getting a grant from the Militia Department of a certain park down there which forms part of the military works. I do not know just what it is, but I understand that if the Commission were allowed to use that park they would be able to carry on certain works which otherwise they cannot do.


Major General HUGHES:: There has been some correspondence on this subject with the department. If my right hon. friend will permit me, I will come around to him and explain the situation?
Excise-Salaries of officers and inspectors and to provide for increase depending on the result of Excise examinations, $570,825.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: Would the minister give some explanation of the increase?


Hon. P. E. BLONDIN (Minister of Inland Revenue):: The increase of $5,546.45 is due to the increase in business, resulting in the demand for stamps, and to general expenditures in the department.
Mr. DEVLIN': I see by the reports of the department that the 'department is making examinations of patent medicines, and that in several instances spurious goods were found on the market. Is the minister taking any steps to put an end to the sale of these spurious goods?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I understand that the law provides that anybody can get a license for the sale of patent medicines upon making application to the department and paying a small fee. We intend to appoint a qualified man to take charge of that branch of the department and to investigate very carefully every case in which a man applies for a license.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: I do not think the minis

ter understands my question. Take, for instance, the sale of the article known as citrate of magnesia; that and other articles have been examined by the department and it has been found that they do not contain the required basis of sodium or whatever specific they should contain. The department's inspectors so report. Is the minister going to allow that state of affairs to continue, or is he going to take steps to put an end to it.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Every time a complaint is received by the department our officers go to a store and ask for a sample in order that an examination of the article may be made, and if the article is found not up to standard, or deleterious to public health, the law jjrovides that proceedings may be taken against those who are selling it, and we intend to enforce that part of the law.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: Has the minister taken any proceedings up to date in the case of drugs?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I am informed that proceedings have already been taken in the case that my hon. friend refers to.


Mr. CARROLL:: Has the attention of the department been called to the abnormal amount of alcohol contained in certain patent medicines that are kept for sale in various Canadian drug stores and in other licensed stores?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Yes, and the matter is under investigation.


William F. Carroll: There have been many complaints in our part of the province, which is a prohibition province, that mixtures are sold in drug stores containing a percentage of alcohol sufficiently large to produce intoxication. I would like to know if the department has taken the proper steps in reference to this matter. It is to be regretted that stuff of that kind can be legally sold by drug stores and licensed vendors of patent medicines to young boys and very often young girls. I am not looking at it so much from the moral as from the physical aspect although both are bad.


Mr. SCHAFFNER:: Has the hon. gentleman in mind the names of any of these preparations?


William F. Carroll: No, although I think
Peruna is one. I. understand that in _pur own police courts in Glace Bay and Sydney mixtures have been found on prisoners who have come in, which they had bought at drug stores and which contained such large percentages of alcohol that persons were sent to jail as common drunks as the result of having inbibed them.


Frederick Laurence Schaffner: The only one that
has come to my notice has been the one to which the hon. gentleman has referred -Peruna. I was wondering if there were others.


William F. Carroll: There are others.


Charles Marcil: Has any inspection been
made of Peruna by the Department?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I am informed not.


Charles Marcil: Has any complaint been
received?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No.


Frederick Laurence Schaffner: Why not?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I am informed that this matter is supervised under the provincial law. The department sees to the collection of the duty on the alcohol used in the making of patent medicine, but the control of the sale of alcohol is with the Provincial Government.


Mr. PARDEE:: Do they not get their
licenses for patent medicines in your department?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: They get their licenses.


Frederick Forsyth Pardee: The department surely
will not grant them a license without having the power of supervision?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: It is more a certificate than a license. They have to make a certain declaration to the departmeent that the medicine is made of such and such material or liquid, and we give a certificate or a registration number.
Mr. PARDEE. You do not certify as to the ingredients used? Is there no formula that they have to file?
Mr.BLONDIN: No.


Frederick Forsyth Pardee: What is the object of the law, then? Surely the certificate can serve nc purpose?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The registration enables the department to keep track of a preparation if, upon investigation, it is found to be injurious to public health.


William F. Carroll: Would your inspectors
not have the right to investigate Peruna and find out whether there is an excess of alcohol in it?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: That is all under provincial authority, I am informed by my deputy minister.


William F. Carroll: Have they no power to make an analysis of patent medicines ?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The duty of our officers is to see that certain ingredients which are forbidden are not contained in the medicine.


William F. Carroll: If patent medicines containing a large percentage of alcohol and other poisons are sold in these drug stores, it is a serious thing if the law is not sufficiently wide to enable the Inland Revenue Department to have these medicines analysed. The law should be amended in that respect.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I agree with my hon. friend, and it is a branch of the department in which I intend to make improvements this year, and to that end we are providing in the Supplementary Estimates for the salaries of competent officials to analyse these medicines.	.


Frederick Laurence Schaffner: Surely the formula of these patent medicines must be registered in some department ?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The medicines are registered.


Frederick Laurence Schaffner: For example, have you not the formula of Peruna in your department ?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No. Patent medicines have only to be registered before they are allowed to be sold.


Charles Marcil: I heard a former Governor General of Canada denounce Peruna in the most energetic terms, as containing fifty or sixty per cent of alcohol.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: There is a standard which gives a list of different drugs which are forbidden to be used in patent medicines, but all that has been done up to the present is to see that such ingredients are not contained in the medicines.


Frederick Laurence Schaffner: I was under the impression, as most people were, that the formula of patent medicines had to be registered with some department of the Government. If that is not so, the law should be amended to provide for it.


Charles Marcil: Is not the vendor of every patent medicine obliged to send a sample to the department for analysis ?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No. The declaration
does not go further than to mention that the patent medicine does not contain any of the prohibited ingredients.


Charles Marcil: If your inspector ascertains that some of these medicines contain harmful ingredients, do you notify the provincial authorities to prosecute ?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The Department itself
prosecutes.


Mr. SPEAKER:: In the sale of headache powders, which sometimes con-
12 noon, tain phenacetin and phenal-gin, is there any restraint over the druggist against selling them to the public generally, other than the restraint provided for in the provincial Pharmacy Act?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The inspectors see that headache powders are made up to the standard, and the vendor is prosecuted for an infraction of the law.


Thomas Simpson Sproule: What do you mean by making powders " up to the standard " ? Some of these powders contain dangerous poisons, and it is generally understood that the sale of them to the general public is prohibited. They are patent or proprietary medicines, and is there no power in

the Inland Revenue Department to restrain the sale of them?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No. I understand that the duty of the inspector does not go beyond seeing that the medicines -which are sold contain none of the prohibited ingredients.


William F. Carroll: I would strongly urge
upon the minister and on the Government generally that the law should be amended so that those who sell patent medicines which contain dangerous ingredients should be prosecuted. Certain poisons are allowed in these proprietary medicines up to a specified quantity, and if the maker puts in two grains where one is prescribed then prosecution should be instituted. The Department of Inland Revenue should take power to control the sale of patent medicines and to analyse every such medicine which is sold in drug stores.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I have a report that 171 samples were collected by my officers this year. Four of the samples declare acetani-lid under the name of phenylacetanid, and seven declare phenacetin as acetphenetidin, and all but eight were held to meet requirements of the Act.
Excise-for extra duty pay at large distilleries and other factories, $15,000.


Mr. KNOWLES:: What is the annual
charge for bonded warehouse licenses made by the Minister of Inland Revenue, or is there any charge?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: For a distillery or for a manufactory of cigars and tobacco?


William Erskine Knowles: For bonded warehouses such as the wholesale liquor merchants have in the cities throughout the country?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: $50 a year.


William Erskine Knowles: If they have been used for only part of the year, is a refund made?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Such a case has never been brought before the department before. If such a case occurred, the man would be entitled to some consideration. It would be dealt with by Order in Council.


William Erskine Knowles: In my own province, in all probability bonded warehouses will be a thing ot the past after the first of July next, if the Government of that province carry out the policy that it has publicly announced. If the license is only $50 a year, the matter is not very important, but the principle is the same. From what date does the license run?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: From the 1st of April.


William Erskine Knowles: Will our merchants in the province of Saskatchewan have a refund for the nine months from the 1st of July to the 1st of April of the following year?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The matter will have to be considered by council. My impression is that they ought to have a refund.


William Erskine Knowles: Is the minister sure that the matter can be dealt with by Order in Council?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Yes.


William F. Carroll: Are the ordinary bonded warehouses under the control of the minister or under the control of the Department of Customs?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Under our control.


William F. Carroll: In the town of Glace Bay there is a public building, the first floor of which is occupied by the post office and the second floor by the customs. There is a large basement which is used as a bonded warehouse in . connection with the Customs Department. I am speaking about last summer; I do not know about the last two or three months.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: May I correct my answer? The Customs Department has bonded warehouses also.


William F. Carroll: For the keeping of intoxicating liquor?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Yes, all goods generally subject to a duty.


William F. Carroll: It is a fact that you
cannot go into the post office without getting the smell of intoxicating liquors to an intolerable extent. I do not know whether the matter has been remedied or not. The whole county, including that town, is under a local prohibition law; yet the Government are establishing bonded warehouses. I am not objecting to having a bonded warehouse in the town; but I do object, on behalf of the public, to having it in the basement of a public building into which every one of the public goes daily for mail.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: That case is for the
Minister of Customs.
Excise-travelling expenses, rent, fuel, stationery, etc., $130,000.


Charles Marcil: Why the increase?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: On account of the increase of business.


Charles Marcil: Does the minister contend that business has increased in the past year?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Yes.


Charles Marcil: In what part of the
counti'y?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I have here a comparative statement of receipts for the months of August, September, October, November and December, in the years 1913-14 and 1914-15. For the five months in 1914-15 the receipts were $1,363,859, against $1,074,000 for the five months in 1913-14, or an increase of $289,859. Although during a certain period in the present year, the revenue was not what it was expected to be, yet by the first of February we had collected as much in ten months as we collected in the whole of 1914.


Charles Marcil: On liquors or on cigars,
or on both?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: On all excise. There. fore the balance of two months will show a net increase.


Charles Marcil: It is advertised in the
newspapers that the Government maintains inspectors in distilleries, and that certain liquors are sold under government inspection. Does that mean that the Government guarantees the quality of the liquor put into the bottles? More inferior liquor is sold in this country than in any other country of w'hich I know/ except the United States.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: We guarantee the age.


Charles Marcil: But not the quality?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No.


Charles Marcil: Is not the inspection as to manufacture?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: My attention has not been called to that matter before.


Charles Marcil: The hon. member for South York (Mr. W. F. Maclean) made an interesting speech here some years ago in regard to the selling in this country of whisky supposed to be bottled in Scotland, which had never come from Scotland at all, having been manufactured in this country.
It was of an inferior quality, was sold at a low price, and was nothing other than poison. Has the minister any control over the bottling of such stuff as that? If he has not, he should have, because the poorest classes especially in the cities drink whisky of the very vilest kind.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Under the Adulteration Act, the department, on complaint being made, has power to prosecute the seller of any liquor so adulterated.


Charles Marcil: Is it necessary that a complaint be made before the matter is looked into? Do the inspectors not ascertain these things in connection with their own work?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No, they do not take action until complaint is made.


Charles Marcil: In Europe any one selling adulterated liquor is liable to a fine or to the loss of his license. In this country, so long as no complaint is	i man may
sell almost anything in the shape of liquor, put any label he likes on the bottle, and sell it at any price he likes.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Licenses for the sale of liquor are issued by the provincial authorities, so that that matter would come more under their jurisdiction than ours.
Weights and Measures-salaries of officers, inspectors and assistant inspectors, $112,800.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: Could the
hon. minister explain this item?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: It is the
same as last year.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: Why do
you pay that amount to the officers in Manitoba and the West, while you give nothing for similar purposes to the officers in the eastern provinces?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: My deputy informs me that this additional salary is granted, because living is much more expensive out West than elsewhere. I am under the impression that these officers are liable to incur living expenses on account of their being stationed so far from the capital.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: This does
not seem to me to be a fair increase, because living expenses are very high throughout Canada, in the eastern provinces as well as in the western provinces/ and the government should give a similar increase- of saTry to the officers stationed in Ihe eastern provinces.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: It was
always so and this is by no means a new departure.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: When an
enactment has become objectionable, it is high time to correct it.


Mr. DEMERS (Translation):: Under -the
words " Preventive Service " could the hon. minister tell us how the proceeds o! any penalty or forfeiture imposed or made in respect of persons selling without a license are appropriated? In what way are these penalties divided under the Act?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Half the proceeds of any penalty goes to the person having given information and the other half goes to the government.


Marie Joseph Demers: Does the
Inland Revenue officer not get part of the penalty? Does the officer by whom the seizure was made not get part of the proceeds of the penalty?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Yes, he
does, in certain cases, when he gives the information.


Mr. DELISLE (Translation):: What part of the proceeds does he receive?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: One-half,
minus expenses.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: In what
section of the country are these additional officers located?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: They are
distributed as a rule throughout the Dominion. We have opened new centres and it was found necessary to appoint more officers, but the new men are assigned to various points throughout the country. As regards the. province of Quebec, they are distributed between the cities of Quebec, Three Rivers, St. Hyacinthe, Montreal and other localities, according to their importance.
Weights and measures-rents, fuel, travelling expenses, postage, stationery, etc., including amount for purchase of standards of the metric system, salaries and other expenses of inspectors, $81,000.


Charles Marcil: How is the inspection of weights and measures carried on in the province of Quebec?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The inspectors make
regular inspections every two years, or whenever they are called upon to do so.


Charles Marcil: How many officials has tie minister now in the district of Quebec?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I am informed that we have nine.


Charles Marcil: I understand that some inspectors in the district of Quebec are employed only two or three months in the
year. These men have no stated salaries, and are given allowances for their travelling expenses. What is the average salary paid to these men who are not employed the whole year round?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: 


Charles Marcil: What salary is paid to Mr. John Dagneau, of St. Omer, county of Bonaventure, district of Quebec?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I will obtain that information for my hon. friend.


Charles Marcil: How many officials did the hon. minister have in the Quebec district five years ago? In my constituency three men have replaced two men, and I should like to know if the increase has been general throughout the 'district. I should like to know also whether Mr. Dagneau's salary has been increased, what he has been paid for travelling expenses, whether it is the custom of the department to allow such men to take part in municipal organizations and in the distribution of patronage and public offices. Hardly a return is brought down in the House which does not contain the name of John Dagneau as being the man making the complaint, as being a witness, or as having some connection with the distribution of patronage.
I do not know whether this is done with the minister's knowledge, but I would like to know exactly whether these men are permitted to interfere in political and municipal affairs. I think this man is mayor of his locality, but I have no objection to that. What are the rules governing officials who are employed for only two or three months in the year?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I am informed that the salaries of these officials range from $100 to $200.


Charles Marcil: Mr. Dagneau receives
much more that that.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I cannot give the
information now.


Charles Marcil: I presume the minister will say that, so far as interference in politics is concerned, it is not permitted?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I understand that is the policy of our department.


Charles Marcil: The minister may take my word for it that Mr. Dagneau is the most active politician we have in Bonaventure; he is even spoken of as becoming the Conservative candidate in the constituency, to which I would have no objection. He took the place of a man who

had been dismissed because he had taken part in politics, and the same rule should apply to him as to his predecessor.


Marie Joseph Demers: How does the minister deal with those employees?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The employees must be warned that complaints have been lodged against them, and that, in the future, they will have to submit to the Government regulations; and, if they do not comply, they are dismissed.


Marie Joseph Demers: Has the
minister had to take such action since he took control of the department.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Happily
not.
Rent, fuel, travelling expenses, stamps, stationery, etc., for the weights and measures branch, including the purchase of metric standard units, appointments and other expenses of inspectors, etc., $81,000.


Marie Joseph Demers: Will the
minister please explain the $6,000 increase in this item?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: My hon. friend is aware that since last August, there has been especially in my department, a great increase in the work on account of the collection of the war tax, and also, as 1 have already pointed out in the House, on account of the general increase of business in almost all localities. It covers especially the price of stamps.


Charles Marcil: Am I to
understand from the figures of the minister That, in general, the consumption of liquors is on the increase instead of decreasing?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No. My hon. friend must keep in mind that we have increased the tax by 50 cents per gallon.


Mr. BUREAU (Translation):: That has
nothing to do with it.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The revenue is increased by so much.


Jacques Bureau: I fail to see how, if a man buys a lo-cent stamp instead of a 5-cent one, that will give more work to an employee.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: My explanation was . not clear; I should'have said that the increase in the expenditure was for the printing of the stamps.


Jacques Bureau: The min ister has just told us that an employee 
must abstain from interfering in politics and that should he not do so, he is warned that he has to conform to the regulations. I may ask the minister if there is in force in his department a regulation which forbids civil servants to take part in politics?
Mr. BLONDIN'' (Translation):	No, I
was alluding to the general policy of the Government, and not to such a regulation as the hon. member has in mind. Fortunately for me, since taking charge of the department, I have had no complaint of that kind, and I did not have to act.


Jacques Bureau: That is
no answer. Did not the hon. minister say a moment ago that an employee must be warned that he has to comply with the regulations of the department? Well, I am asking him what are the regulations of the department?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Under
the Civil Service Act, there is a special section which forbids civil servants to take p,art in elections; but there is no written regulation to that effect; there is only the practice followed in the departments.


Jacques Bureau: Does the Civil Service Act apply to the outside service?
Mr.	BLONDIN	(Translation):	The	Act
applies to the inside service only.
Mr.	BUREAU	(Translation):	Most of
the employees of the minister's department belong to the outside service.


Marie Joseph Demers: Is there a penalty provided in the Act which provides that civil servants shall keep out of politics?
Mr.	BLONDIN (Translation): I	did
not say there was such an enactment. It is left to the minister's discretion and I think that whoever breaks the rule is liable to be punished by the minister.
Mr.	DEMERS	(Translation):	Are	the
revenue stamps printed in English and French?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: My hon. friend is not aware that the former practice was to have them printed in English only. I took steps to have them printed in both languages, and I hope before long to satisfy my hon. friend. The Act which is now before the House will come into force only on the 15th of April next.


Charles Marcil: The two languages are official, and for use in the

province of Quebec, would it not be possible to have stamps printed in both English and French? I shall go further. Would not a stamp printed in French only be as legal as one printed in English only?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I made
representations and as a result the officers of my department will be in a position to deliver stamps printed in French when so required.


Charles Marcil: Has the Government within the last few months, passed an Order in Council prohibiting employees of the outside service to interfere in the management of municipal or school affairs?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The Government has no fixed policy on the question ; I believe, on the contrary, that it was publicly stated that it was not the intention of the Government to prevent its employees from taking part in municipal politics?


Charles Marcil: I thought that it was the very opposite and that by an Order in Council, it was decreed that from the 1st of January, 1916 or 1917, civil servants would be forbidden to take part in municipal elections.


Jacques Bureau: Does that same rule apply to the provincial elections?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I think
the question relates chiefly to the civil servants in the city of Ottawa, and I know that the Government has decided not to interfere.


William F. Carroll: Has it been brought to the attention of the min's ter that a high-salaried official in his department has written a very severe castigation of the Liberal party in connection with the dual language question in Ontario?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I think that is going
far from tne item under discussion.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: No, I think that is
getting very near.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: What has my hon. friend to say?


William F. Carroll: I have this to say. Some days ago I noticed in the papers extracts from a pamphlet which was issued, I understand, by the gentleman holding the position of Deputy Minister of Inland Revenue. I am not bringing up this question for the purpose of making any comparison between
the French and the English languages. Both languages are excellent, and I think no man in this country educated, in the proper sense of the word, who cannot speak both. In this1 pamphlet the deputy minister severely criticises the attitude of the Liberal party in regard to the bi-lingual question. In my opinion he went beyond his depth, and beyond what any deputy minister or civil servant in this country should go. Even the Conservative press, the Ottawa Citizen, for instance,-


Mr. FRIPP:: That is not the Conservative press.


William F. Carroll: I know my hon. friend is very sore this morning.


Alfred Ernest Fripp: I am not a bit sore. The hon. gentleman has no right to make a statement of that kind.


William F. Carroll: I will say, then, that the hon. gentleman has reason to be sore with the Ottawa Citizen this morning.


Alfred Ernest Fripp: Why?


William F. Carroll: You had better read it. For instance, that letter addressed to the Minister of Militia that was given to Mr. Brown.


Alfred Ernest Fripp: Have you any fault to find with it?


William F. Carroll: I have every fault to find with it; so has the Citizen.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: This pamphlet does not refer to politics in general. It simply refers to the question in debate between the people in the province of Ontario.


William F. Carroll: Oh, no, it refers to the attitude of the Liberal party on this question, and, in so far as it refers to that, it is not consistent with truth in the way I understand it. The deputy minister makes an attack upon the leader of the Liberal party and upon the Liberal party generally for the stand they have taken on this question. 1 was going to point out that the Ottawa Citizen, which is generally looked upon as a Conservative paper,


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, no.


William F. Carroll: Hon. gentlemen may laugh. If they are willing to read the Ottawa Citizen out of the party simply because of its independence, I cannot help it. The Ottawa Citizen brought this question to the attention of the Minister of Inland Revenue. I really think that the Minister of Inland

Revenue should at least give a lecture to his deputy, not for his attitude on the bilingual question, but for the attack he has made on the Liberal party in this country.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I must tell my hon. frien^l that we do not want to interfere on behalf of or against any group of people in Ontario interested in this question. Just as Mr. Genest and Dr. Freeland and any other public servant in the city of Ottawa has a right to express his opinion, so has my deputy minister a right to express his opinion. I have no responsibility whatever for what my deputy minister writes on municipal or provincial matters, and should not think it just to prevent him doing that, or to lecture him for anything he has done in regard to a question outside of general politics. His pamphlet certainly cannot be called a partisan attack in federal politics.


William F. Carroll: If the minister says that the pamphlet does not contain an attack upon the leader of the Opposition or upon the Liberal party generally, all I can say is that he cannot have read the pamphlet. If I have read it correctly it is an attack, and was designed and intended as an attack, upon the leader of the Opposition and upon the Liberal party in Dominion politics. The minister is perfectly correct in saying that the hands of the deputy minister or any other civil servant in his department should not be tied upon any question of general interest, but when from one end of the pamphlet to the other an attack upon the Liberal party and its leader is deftly mingled with another question, then I say it becomes a matter of politics and the minister should interfere, especially if he wishes to carry out the policy whidi has been enunciated by his Government from 1911 down to the present, and especially before 1911.


Jacques Bureau: 
Pierre Édouard Blondin: I have nothing whatever to do with that paper. I had in the past, but not now.


Jacques Bureau: I am glad the minister says so. However, they always say that the paper is the organ of the Minister of Inland Revenue; it is known as such; it is accredited as -such; and whenever the minister wants to do anybody any harm it is always through this paper, La Semaine, that he does it. He is so closely connected with it that I do not think I am doing him an injustice when I say that it is his organ.
Mr. BLONDIN; How long is it since this paper was published ?


Jacques Bureau: I could not -say, because I do not read it regularly. It may have suspended publication. -The Tory papers in the district of Three Rivers seem to have been overcome with the sleeping sickness. As soon as the construction of public buildings ceases, the papers dwindle out of sight, and when construction is commenced again, the papers reappear. There was a copy of La Semaine in my box this morning; but, as the minister has said it is not. his paper, I will take -his word for it; and I will tell the people in the riding of Three Rivers to throw the paper aside, because it is not an expression of the opinions of the minister. I will go through the hon. gentleman's riding. and tell the people that he disowns that paper.


Mr. CODERRE:: 
William F. Carroll: I cannot read sufficiently well the French language to be able to say exactly what it contains, but I saw an extract from that pamphlet. When the Secretary of State says that the writer did not attack my right lion, friend the leader of the Opposition as such perhaps I agree with him; but will the minister say that he did not. attack the leader of the Opposition as a Liberal, or accuse him of trafficking in this question as a political question? Did he not attack Senator Belcourt, the champion of the French language in the city of Ottawa


Louis Coderre: Yes, he attacks him.


William F. Carroll: -and accuses him of trafficking in this question for party purposes?


Louis Coderre: That is what he says.


William F. Carroll: What does that mean?


Louis Coderre: It means that Senator
Belcourt is doing what he says he is doing.


William F. Carroll: It does not mean anything of the kind; it means that this Deputy Minister of Inland Revenue wants to make a political question out of it and wants to make his French confreres of the Conservative party in the province of Quebec believe that the Liberal party are against the French language in this country.


Mr. BURNHAM:: Who made a political
question out of it when they passed a resolution about it in the House at Quebec?


The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Blain):: I do not
think the committee are justified in going beyond the point as to whether the deputy minister was wrong in taking part in politics. What he has written I would think would not be a subject for consideration by the committee.


Jacques Bureau: What would constitute
taking part in politics? Would it mean that a man was out stumping? Would a man who would write in a paper making
accusations against another party, a man who- would write pamphlets and circulate them amongst the electors, not be taking part in politics? I submit that when a man writes a pamphlet on any public question and makes that question the pretext for an attack upon a party, the leader of a party, or a body of men because they belong to a certain party, he is meddling in politics. Words will fly, but writings remain. When a man writes a book or a pamphlet and uses any question to serve as a pretext for the abuse and detraction of another party, he is taking part in politics to as great an extent as if he went on the stump and made an attack upon that party. Therefore I think it comes within the scope of the discussion if the pamphlet contains such references as have been alluded to. The hon. the Secretary of State (Mr. Coderre) admitted that the pamphlet contained the statement that the leaders of the Liberal party in Ottawa were taking advantage of this situation to make a political question out of it and that they should be French before they were politicians. The fact that the writer attacks a certain number of men shows the animus and the desire, not to hurt the Liberal party in Quebec, but to hurt the Liberal party in Ontario. That is what he is aiming at. We remember the game which was played in 1911, and we remember that nobody played it better than the hon. the Minister of Inland Revenue (Mr. Blondin). I think that we are within the scope of the item when we discuss this question.


Mr. PUGSLEY:: I did not have the opportunity. of hearing the whole of the discussion, but I understand the complaint against the Deputy Minister of Inland Revenue is that he wrote a pamphlet charging that certain prominent Liberals were doing injury to the French Canadian cause and the French Canadian language. I understand the Secretary of State (Mr. Coderre) justifies that attack on the ground that an official has the right to express his opinion by writing pamphlets-


Louis Coderre: I would like to correct my hon. friend with respect to the statement that I am approving of all that has been said. I said that I had read the book, but that I had not seen anything in it of the character suggested by the hon. member for Cape Breton.


William Pugsley: I understand that it
makes a very strong attack upon certain

members of the Liberal party and among others it makes an attack against my right hon. friend the leader of the Opposition. I "would like to call attention to the fact that it was not so long ago that this Government dismissed from office a gentleman who had occupied a position very much inferior to that of the Deputy Minister of Inland Revenue, who was simply the collector of customs at Coaticook, and who was dismissed because, actuated no doubt by ultra loyal feelings, he wrote a letter to one of the newspapers in which he condemned in very strong terms the conduct of certain Conservative-Nationalists in Quebec who had made the statement on many platforms that French Canadians had only been enabled to breathe the air of freedom by shooting holes through the British flag. That public servant, who had given the very best years of his life to the country, was dismissed without any opportunity of redress or without any opportunity of justifying his conduct simply by reason of having made that statement. The Minister of Customs had only to say that his attention had been called to the matter, and that he regarded it as taking part in political controversy. Without any other reason that gentleman was dismissed from office.
Salaries of gas and electricity inspectors, $88,150.


Jacques Bureau: There is an increase of $9,200.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: That is due to the general increase in business.


Jacques Bureau: Is it due to an increase in salaries also?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No, it is for rent, fuel ' and general expenditure.


Jacques Bureau: No; this is " salaries of gas and electricity inspectors," and there is an increase of $9,200.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: It is due to an increase in the number of officers.


Jacques Bureau: Has there been any increase in the district of Three Rivers?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I think'not.
Rent, fuel, travelling expenses, stationery, etc., for gas and electricity inspection, and the purchase and repairs of instruments, $65,000.


Jacques Bureau: How much of that is for travelling expenses?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: It is the same as last
year.


Jacques Bureau: That does not answer my question.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The same reason as is already given in other cases; it is because of the belief that this amount was due to the officers on account of the high cost of living there.


Jacques Bureau: Where is that?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: In Manitoba; it is a
provisional allowance.


Jacques Bureau: That is not the item that we are on; we are on the item of $65,000 for gas and electricity inspection, and I want to know how much of the money goes for travelling expenses.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: These are the usual expenditures of the department.


Jacques Bureau: I understand that, but they are enumerated. There is so much for rent, so much for fuel and so much for travelling expenses. I am asking how much of the $65,000 goes for travelling expenses, and how much it is apportioned by districts.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I will get the information for my hon. friend.
Weights and Measures-provisional allowance' not more than $150 each to officers in Manitoba and provinces west thereof, whose salaries do not exceed $2,500 per annum, $3,000.


Jacques Bureau: Is that a uniform allowance to all officers who have a salary of less than $2,500 a year, or is it only for a few of them?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: It is given to all officers who receive less than $2,500 a year.


Jacques Bureau: Does the minister say
that every man who does not receive $2,500 a year is getting an allowance of $150, and that that covers all the- employees in the province of Manitoba?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Yes, and in the provinces west.


William Erskine Knowles: The custom is, in certain small places, to employ the customs officer to look after the work of the Inland Revenue Department, and the latter department makes an allowance of say $100.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: That is the practice.


William Erskine Knowles: Does a man who gets
an allowance of $100 a year from the Inland Revenue Department get this $150?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No, this only refers to
the man who receives a regular annual salary.


William Erskine Knowles: It does not apply to
those customs officers who receive a nominal salary for doing inland revenue work?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: It does not.
Export of electric power, $1,000.


Mr. ROBB:: What are the regulations
for exporting electric power?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: There are no written
regulations. The application is made to the department and reported to Council.


James Alexander Robb: Under what conditions did
the department give permission to the Cedar Rapids Company to export 60,000 horsepower?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The exportation of electric power is governed by the Privy Council, which fixes the rates and conditions.
At one o'clock, the committee took recess.
The committee resumed at three o'clock, Mr. Sevigny in the Chair.
Progress reported.



[Stage Direction]
A message from His Royal Highness the Governor General transmitting Supplementary Estimates for the year ending March 31, 1916, was presented by Hon. W. T. White (Minister of Finance), read by Mr. Speaker to the House, and referred to the Committee of Supply.

[Stage Direction]
The House in Committee of Supply, Mr. Sevigny in the Chair.
Civil Government-Administration of Justice, salaries, $141,848.75.
Mr. LANCTOT (Translation):: Mr. Chairman, I very much regret that the hon. member for Rimouski (Mr. Boulay) should not be in the House, because I am anxious to disprove certain statements he made the other day which are reported at page 1105 of the unrevised edition of Hansard. Here is what he said:
Regarding Hon. Justice Doherty, the member for Laprairie has again distorted the facts; he stated that Hon. Mr. Doherty received a pension of $7,000 a year, while it is only $4,666. I believe the pension of judges has been in existence since 1868.
Now, Mr. Chairman, here is what I had said, as reported at page 913 of the unrevised edition of Hansard:
Is it not his duty as Minister of Justice to make-laws or amend the bad ones? Let him give up his pension; it would be a noble deed; of course, he would be losing $4,666 a year.
That is the statement I made on the 9th of March and the member for Rimouski, before stating to the House that I had distorted the facts, should have read Hansard.
Now, I have another reason to be sorry at the absence of the member for Rimouski, because I wish to make a declaration that concerns him. At the beginning of the session, the member for Rimouski came to me at my seat


Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Sevigny) (Translation):: I must point out to the hon. member that the question now before the committee is the salaries of the employees of the Department of Justice. I suggest to the hon. member that he would be more in order if he would wait and rise to a question ol privilege.


Roch Lanctôt: I believe
that what I wish to say is connected with the general question of the salaries of the Department of J ustice and as at the present moment we are speaking of pensions, I think I am entitled to quote the words of the hon. member for Rimouski.


Albert Sévigny: I must point out to the hon. member that his correction of what the hon. member for Rimouski may have said has nothing to do with the salaries voted for the employees of the Department of Justice. I do think, as I said, that he would be in order if he brought that matter up on a question of privilege. He could then rectify the statements of the hon. member for Rimouski. .


Roch Lanctôt: Do you rule, Mr. Chairman, that I would be out of order in quoting the statement made by the member for Rimouski, charging me with misrepresentation?


Albert Sévigny: 1 maintain the ruling I have just given.


Roch Lanctôt: I shall then have to wait for another opportunity. But- since I cannot deal with this question any further, while I have the floor, I will ask the minister if he intends to move to have the payment of his pension suspended during 1915-16?


Charles Joseph Doherty: The question of my pension is noit alluded to in any shape. in the Estimates now before the House. I am not asking any vote to cover the pensions of judges. The pensions are regulated by the law of the country. An Act

would be necessary to amend the law now in force governing pensions, and I do not in the least intend to introduce such an Act.


Roch Lanctôt: The minister states an Act of Parliament would be required, but does it not belong to the Minister of Justice to make laws and amend them? 1 say that law is a bad law. In making this enactment, it was in the minds of the legislators to retire those judges who had become incapacitated by age or infirmities.


Charles Joseph Doherty: The hon. member is not in order in proposing to amend an Act when the subject under discussion is the Estimates, which simply call for a money vote to cover the salaries of the employees of the Department of Justice. This item has nothing to do with pensions.


Albert Sévigny: 1 believe the point of order is well takers I have about me the-best advisers a Deputy Speaker can possibly have, and such is my advisers' opinion. I will point out to the iron, member that the item now under discussion has to do with the salaries of the employees of the Department of Justice and that there is no question whatever of the amount received by the judges who are entitled to a pension. I rule therefore that the point of order is well taken.


Roch Lanctôt: Possibly,
Mr. Deputy Speaker, you have about you the best advisers, but I have about me the electors of my constituency who urge me to continue the fight against the present Minister of Justice.
Since it is settled that I may not speak of pensions, I ought to have the right to speak of the assistants who have been given to the minister. First, is it not true that the Minister of Justice, a pensioner of the State, has had to take with him two assistants and increase the salary of his deputy minister to do the work that he himself ought to do, but neglects doing, because he is always absent going to Montreal on his private business, which leaves him no spare time to attend to the administration of the country. I protest against the increased appropriation to pay the salary of the deputy minister and against the appointment of assistants in that office.
Administrate of justice-contingencies,


Marie Joseph Demers: What was the number of employees in the Depart-

ment of Justice in 1911, and what is it in 1915?


Charles Joseph Doherty: The hon. member will find this information in the reports brought down before the House, which give the number of civil servants in each department. The Department of Justice is included in these reports, but I shall gladly furnish any other information required by the hon. member.
Administration of justice-miscellaneous, expenditure, $10,000.


Mr. C. A. WILSON:: What is that for?


Charles Joseph Doherty: The services covered by this appropriation comprise the following: Cost of administration of justice in the Northwest Territories as now constituted, and in .unorganized districts; expenses incurred in connection with extradition eases and cases of fugitive offenders from or to other parts of the Empire; copies and translations of evidence required in dealing with applications for clemency; expenses of commissions of inquiry; sundry small expenses not otherwise provided for. $10,000 is considered ample to cover the yearly expenditure, but it is impossible to make a close estimate, as in one year there may be a large expenditure under the first two items, and the next year there may be scarcely any. This is the usual vote.
Administration of justice-living allowance for judge of Atlin district, B.C., $1,200.


Mr. W. M. MARTIN:: What is the policy of the'minister with respect to judges holding commissions in the active militia?


Charles Joseph Doherty: We did have a few applications from judges in different parts of the country asking for leave of absence in order to join the overseas contingents. The matter was carefully considered, and it seemed to the Government that the moment had not arrived when it was necessary that the judges should leave their judicial duties in order to take part in military operations. So far, we have declined to grant leave of absence for that purpose. I think there were altogether four or five such applications.


William Melville Martin: My question relates more particularly to judges who hold commissions in the militia in different districts, and who at the same time act as judges.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I have had no suggestion that any judge .has engaged in the duties of an officer of the active militia at

times when he should he giving attention to his judicial duties.


William Melville Martin: It would not be proper
to mention names, hut I know one case where a judge received promotion in the militia of Canada. He was promoted from the rank of captain to a higher rank, that of major or colonel, I think. He says that he wants to go to the front, but the Minister of Justice will not let him go. It seems to me that a man in that position ought either to be relieved of his position as judge, or to be given an opportunity to go to the front and show what he is made of.


Charles Joseph Doherty: If the gentleman referred to desires, as the hon member suggests, to be relieved of his position as judge, he has a very simple method open to him. The judicial business of the country must be carried on, even though we be at war. I trust that the time will not be reached when it will be necessary to call upon the judges to abandon the administration of justice in order to take an active part in the war. I am not prepared to say what might happen if some exceptionally well-qualified military man happened to be upon the bench, but under existing conditions we have not felt justified and would not feel justified in allowing a judge leave of absence in order that he may go to the war.


William Melville Martin: Does the minister not think that a judge who has not the eminent qualifications to go to the front as a militia officer should resign his commission in the militia?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I should like to know
the details of the particular case in question before pronouncing an opinion in that regard. I might perhaps say something very unfair by reason of my not knowing the particular conditions. It seems to me conceivable that a judge-I do not know whether my hon. friend refers to a high court judge or a county judge-might be able to be of some useful service in connection with the militia without in any way interfering with his judicial duties. I would not like offhand, without knowing the particular circumstances of a particular case, to make a pronouncement upon the subject.


Mr. GAUVREAU:: Does the minister remember that last year I had occasion to write to him about the case of a man named Auelair at Riviere du Loup? I never received an answer from the minister. I do not know whether he is too 109
busy with his pension or what it is. I thought at the time that a representative of the people of this country was entit'od to have an answer from the minister, even if he happened to be a Grit or of any othe: political faith. The trouble is that the>i wanted to expropriate a poor old fisherman at the point at Riviere du Loup on account of his political colour, he being a Liberal in good standing. I wrote to the Minister, of Justice asking for fair play and justice to the poor old fisherman. I may say that last session I brought the case to \the attention of the Minister of Public Works and, though we may think lots of things about him, he was kind enough to let me know that he was ready to help the poor fisherman. But I am sorry to say I could not obtain the same answer from the Minister of Justice. Is his heart harder than that of the Minister of Public Works? I hope not. Although I made a strong appeal to him, the poor old man was expropriated while he was away in the bush. His poor wife was alone and they sent down there two sheriffs and twenty young men with axes and picks to dislodge or expropriate the poor wooden building of a fisherman. What did they do with it? They broke it in pieces and threw it into the water, and they took his fishing boat and threw it into the water too. Why? Because he had built on a small piece of land that belonged to the Government at the point at Riviere du Loup. Why? Because he would not vote on the other side. I tell the Minister of Justice that that is a scandal and a public shame on his department and to allow such a thing to be done in a civilized country like ours is a double shame. It is German kultur, it is a German conception, as I said to the face of the minister's own representatives at Riviere du Loup. More than that his representative at Riviere du Loup, Mr. Berubfe,' a Conservative member in the local House, I am sorry to say, told the man that if he would move when winter set in he would allow him to do so. The man promised that as soon as the snow was on the ground he would take his little building away from the Government property. During that time the suit was going on, the fees were piling up and when the snow came the man was sad to learn that he had to pay $72 when he had been promised that if he would remove his property from the Government land nothing would be done. Is that what they call in this country fair play for the poor



fisherman? I leave it to the minister to give me an answer.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I am surprised-


Charles Arthur Gauvreau: Do not be too surprised.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I am surprised that the hon. member who feels so strongly for the wrong of this constituent of his, should have been here for something over two months and should never have taken occasion to call my attention to the serious wrongs which he says were perpetrated.


Charles Arthur Gauvreau: But the wrong is altogether done: you never answered my letter, and I wanted to reach you on your estimates; that is the only way to reach you.


Charles Joseph Doherty: If the hon. member did not receive an answer to a letter written to me or to the department, that is a matter which I very much regret. Certainly I have no intention of overlooking the hon. member's letter, and if somebody in the department failed to acknowledge it, I must, on behalf of the department, offer an apology. As to the hon. member's accusations in connection with the manner in which the judgment was executed, I can only say that it is the first time that it has been suggested to me that there was any such harshness. If the hon. member had communicated with me during the time he has been here, I would at least have been in a position to have made inquiries and to have verified the facts. I do not for a moment suggest that the hon. member is not telling the facts as he understands them.
Mr. GAUVREAU I live on the spot and I know.


Charles Joseph Doherty: But of course there are other people who live on the spot, and there is the counsel in particular to whom the hon. member refers who conducted the case and who I would be surprised to learn had acted with undue harshness. All I can say is that I will look into the question and will try to be as soft-hearted as the performance of the duties of my position will allow.


Charles Arthur Gauvreau: I am perfectly content with what has been said by the minister. When he has received a report from his attorney down there, he will be satisfied that what I have said is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.


Charles Avila Wilson: So help him God !

Supreme Court of Canada-Contingencies and disbursements, salaries of officers (sheriffs, etc.) books, magazines, etc., for judges, not exceeding 5300, law books and books of reference for library and binding of same, 56,500; $9,000.


George Perry Graham: Does this Government pay sheriffs?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I understand that occasionally a sheriff is called in to a sitting of the Supreme Court; it is necessary to give a fee to him in that case.


Roch Lanctôt: Is there no amount included in those contingencies, disbursements, etc., for furniture, chairs, rugs, etc.


Charles Joseph Doherty: The furniture is supplied by the Department of Public Works. The Department of Justice does not purchase any furniture.


Marie Joseph Demers: Is the sum of $6,500, which is voted every year completely spent every year; I mean are there not certain years when more is spent and in others less?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I regret to say that I
have not before me the details of the amount spent last year. I shall be glad to furnish them if desired. As I pointed out, this is the amount voted every year;' there is no increase.


Charles Avila Wilson: Regarding the item of $9,000 for law books, etc., may I ask the Minister of Justice whether he has come to a decision as to the printing of the report on penitentiaries, of which I spoke to him the other day?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I do
not believe that the cost of that report is included in the items, which are for the Supreme Court; but we have already voted an item which comprises the cost of printing this report.
Exchequer Court of Canada-Contingencies- Judges' travelling expenses, remuneration to sheriffs, etc., printing, stationery, etc., and $150 for judges' books, $6,000.


William Erskine Knowles: I should like some information with regard to the distribution of Exchequer Court reports. The=? reports of course are printed at the Government Printing Bureau. I should like to know to whom they are distributed free, if at all, and under what circumstances they are printed at the Bureau for the editor of these reports? What is the business contract between the Government and the editor of the Exchequer Court reports?


Charles Joseph Doherty: The Exchequer Court
reports are printed by the King's Printer and distributed, I understand, by the Department of the Secretary of State. As far as I am aware we do not make any distribution of these volumes.


William Erskine Knowles: The hon. gentleman
says that the distribution is under the Department of th^ Secretary of State, and then he says that no distribution is made.


Charles Avila Wilson: Is the hon. minister of opinion that the Exchequer Court and the Supreme Court Reports should be distributed to the Members of Parliament?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I do not believe they
are distributed.


Charles Avila Wilson: I know they are
not, but is it the opinion of the ministers that they should be distributed.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I have not given consideration to that question, but it is one probably that deserves consideration. In answer to the hon. member for Moosejaw (Mr. Knowles) I am not in a position to say to just what extent the distribution that is referred to here is done by us, but it is not the general distribution of the reports. I presume they go to the judges and other officials of our own connected with the administration of justice. I can get the information for the hon. member if he desires it.	.


William Erskine Knowles: I should like to know
about the business contract under which they are printed. The minister is aware that if anybody wants to purchase these .reports he has to pay $5 a volume. That money, I presume, goes to the editor of the reports, who without doubt is very well known to the minister. I want to know whether that money eventually finds it way to the Government, or whether the editor has the work done at a nominal price. I should also like an answer to my first question, as to the extent to which these Exchequer Court reports are distributed free. I bought a set of thirteen volumes myself and had to pay $65 cash, although they were printed by the King's Printer, and it goes against my grain to pay $65 for anything printed by the King's Printer.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I have always paid for my own volumes. I understand that the Registrar of the Court has an official list of the people to whom they should be distributed, and I shall be glad to procure 109i
that list for the hon. gentleman if he desires.	.


Marie Joseph Demers: Under the item of $6,500 for contingencies, disbursements, etc., I will ask of the Minister of Justice the same question I put to the Minister of Inland Revenue as to the details of this item; I mean is the whole of this amount spent every year; are there not years when more is spent, and some years, less?


Charles Joseph Doherty: Well I shall have a statement prepared of what was spent last year and let my hon. friend have a copy.
Exchequer of Court of Canada-salary of Marshal in Admiralty, Quebec, $333.34.


Charles Avila Wilson: What is the name of the marshal ?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I understand his name is Robert J. Bradley.


Charles Avila Wilson: Has he a fixed salary or is he paid by fees ?


Charles Joseph Doherty: We are voting a salary here. I understand that he also gets fees for certain proceedings.


Charles Avila Wilson: Did he get any fee in connection with the Storstad ?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I am really not in a position to inform the hon. gentleman.
Exchequer Court of Canada-to Chas. Morse for furnishing reports of Exchequer Court decisions to legal periodicals, $50.


Jacques Bureau: To what periodicals does Mr. Morse furnish these decisions ?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I understand to legal periodicals, to law journals and things of that kind. I can get the list if my hon. friend desires it.


Jacques Bureau: No, I do not want the list. But Mr. Morse is the editor of the reports, and I suppose he gets any benefit that is to be derived from the sale of them. I was wondeiing what the $50 was for.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I think the hon. gentleman is mistaken in supposing that Mr. Morse gets the price the reports are sold for. He gets his salary, but that is all. Whatever the reports are sold for is turned over to the Government, as I understand.


William Erskine Knowles: The minister is mistaken in that. Mr. Morse is the editor of these reports. I wanted to know how much Mr. Morse pays the Government for the printing. Mr. Morse is the editor of these

reports and sells them at $5 a piece. It is not much of a practice to supply them to the law publications.


Charles Joseph Doherty: Is the hon. gentleman quite certain that he is not confounding Supreme Court reports with Exchequer Court reports?


William Erskine Knowles: Quite certain.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I shall verify what my
hon. friend has said.


William Erskine Knowles: I have tried to get them myself. As the Exchequer Court reports were printed by the King's Printer, I thought I could pay for them on time and get other advantages, but he would not sell them under any circumstances. He sells them only to the editor.


Charles Joseph Doherty: There may be some arrangement for the sale of them.
Administration of Justice-Yukon Territory- travelling allowance of judge, $500.


Roch Lanctôt: How many judges?


Charles Joseph Doherty: Only one.


Roch Lanctôt: Well,
travelling is expensive for him.
Administration of Justice-Yukon territory- Maintenance of prisoners, $10,000.


Roch Lanctôt: How many prisoners?


Charles Joseph Doherty: The amount that is voted is to cover the expenditure. The prisoners, I understand, average nine at the same time. The expenditure under this head in 1912-13 was $7,946, and in 1913-14 $6,558.


Mr. PROULX:: How many jails are
there?


Charles Joseph Doherty: There is a jail at Dawson and a jail at Whitehorse. I do not know but that the Mounted Police building would be used for the detention of prisoners when necessary.
Dominion Police, $128,765.


Mr. McCRANEY:: When will we be
allowed to discuss the items on page 35 in regard to the salaries of the chief justices?


Charles Joseph Doherty: The items on page 35 are provided by statute, and I am asking no votes for them.


George Ewan McCraney: I wish to ask the minister if he has had any representations made to him in regard to an increase in the salaries of county court and district judges,

and if he has any policy to announce in regard thereto?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I have had some representations made this year, but not the usual crop, if I may be allowed to use the expression. It has not been considered that this was a desirable time to deal with the question.


Mr. GERMAN:: The expenditures on page 33 of the Estimates are apparently authorized by statute also, and I presume there will be no vote asked for them here. I would like to ask the minister if, in connection with these local judges in admiralty, he has ever considered the possibility of doing away with the system of court procedure at present in vogue which makes it necessary that alb actions in admiralty be brought in some of the admiralty courts and whether all these actions could not . be brought in the High Court and thus do away with this so-called admiralty work. It is a misnomer, it is quite a useless procedure, it is extra expensive, and the whole legal profession and litigants would be glad to see it done away with. Matters m admiralty could be brought into the High Court to much more advantage to litigants and with much more convenience to solicitors than they can toe disposed of under the system at present in existence. I took this matter up with the former Minister of Justice, Sir Allen Aylesworth, and I understood from him that in consequence of some old system which existed in the eastern provinces, and because there were some admiralty judges who were receiving $1,000 a year, it would not be well to make the change at that time. But surely the niue has come when we can do away with this effete system of procedure and have all these cases brought into the High Court and disposed of under the High Court procedure.
I will be glad if the Minister of Justice would give this matter some consideration because I know full well that it is a question which interests the profession as well as litigants. It would be well to have the old system done away with.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I shall certainly be happy to look into the matter to which my hon. friend has referred. It is the first time it has been called to my attention since I have occupied the position which I now hold. I have some recollection of the matter having been brought up under a previous administration. At that time there seemed, at all events in the Montreal district, to be

a very strong desire for the maintenance-of the present system. I was not, however, sufficiently concerned with it at that time to go into it with enough care to form any very definite opinion as to whether the system should be maintained or not, but I shall be glad to take the first opportunity of looking into it.


William F. Carroll: I want to say a word about the appointment of the registrars of alien enemies in my county. On February 11, I asked the following question:
Is Hyman Benjamin, of Glace Bay, N.S., employed by the Militia Department or by any other department of the Government? If so, what are his duties, and what is his salary?
The answer is that he is " not in the employ of the Government." I knew that this young man was in the employ of the Government, and on March 17 I asked:
1.	Who are the registrars of alien enemies for the riding of South Cape Breton, N.S. ?
2.	What is the salary paid to each?
3.	What assistants have they got, and what are their names and salaries?
4.	What are the names of the interpreters in connection with the work, and what are their salaries?
Mr. Casgrain (for Mr. Doherty) :
1.	H. C. Moseley.
2.	$200 per month.
3.	D. Nicholson, $100 per month; A. D. Gillis, $100 per month; B. Morrison, $30 per month.
4.	H. Benjamin, $75 per month.
The registration of alien enemies in my county is, in my humble opinion, not conducted in a desirable manner. Under the Order in Council of the 24th December, 1914, the city of Sydney was made a registration district, and it is in that district the the persons mentioned in the answer of March 17 are acting. Until the appointment of Mr. Moseley to the city -of Sydney district at $200 a month, the work was being done all through the county of Cape Breton, including all the mining towns as well as the city of Sydney, by Mr. D. A. Noble, who is the head of the police force of the Dominion Steel and Coal Company. Mr. Noble and his assistants were doing this work to the entire satisfaction of Colonel Sherwood, chief of the Dominion Police, and they were doing it without pay. When it came to the appointment of a registrar under the new regulation, Mr. Noble made application, but he was told that while he had been doing the work well the position was going to some one else, and witn that I cannot find fault if the Government so determined. But if the registrar, who has his jurisdiction limited to the city of Sydney, is entitled to receive
pay, surely Mr. Noble, who had spent money out of his own pocket in connection with his duties, and his staff, were entitled to some recompense. Mr. Noble is, as a matter of fact, doing the registration work in the county of Cape Breton to-day, outside of the city of Sydney. Mr. Noble and the others were perfectly willing to do this work as loyal citizens, without compensation, but if the department appoints a registrar under salary, surely Mr. Noble and his officers are also entitled to the same treatment. This young man, Hyman Benjamin, against whom I have nothing to say, is getting $75 a month as interpreter for Mr. Moseley, and that is looked upon as a joke down there. He is competent to speak English and Yiddish, but he does not speak German or Austrian, and, as a matter of fact, any person who lives there will tell the minister that he is not looking after these duties at all, but that his work is in another direction. I do not wish to be personal, but I would ask the minister to investigate this. When I put a question on the Order Paper, asking what assistants Mr. Moseley had, I was under the impression that Sergeant Stephen Black of the city of Sydney had been Mr. Moseley's assistant since the office was opened, but that information was. not given in the answer, although I believe it is correct. When in February last I asked if Benjamin was in the emplpoy of any department of government, I got the answer he was not, and when, having put the question in another form, I was told he had been in tlie employ of the Government since January 3, such a reply makes one suspicious. I have no objection to officials getting fair remuneration for their services if they do the work, and I have always maintained in this House and elsewhere that civil servants were entitled to a fair salary, but I do object to men being paid for ostensibly doing work when they are not capable of doing that work. I also object to a man getting a salary of $200 a month for doing work which had been done up to the 3rd of January for nothing by others, and who are still doing the same kind of work in the county of Cape Breton and getting nothing for it. I submit this matter to the Minister of Justice in good faith. Mr. Noble is not looking for pay, but he feels that if Air. Moseley is entitled to $200 a month for looking after alien enemies in Sydney, and the work being practically completed by Mr. Noble on the 3rd of

January when he left that office, that he is entitled to compensation. I have no reflection to cast upon Mr. Benjamin, of Glace Bay; he is a nice young gentleman, but he is not qualified, and if he were he is not doing the work he is paid for; he is engaged in other work the nature of which I do not wish to make public. These matters have been brought to my attention several times by persons of both political parties in the county of Cape Breton, and I submit them to the minister.


Charles Joseph Doherty: As to the error which
seems to have occurred in the answer as to Mr. Benjamin being employed in any department of the Government, I can only explain it by the fact that the question as first put specially mentioned the Militia Department, and attention was not called to it as having any reference to the Department of Justice. When the question was put to the Department of Justice, it was answered correctly, which shows, of course, that there was no intention to mislead in any way. Mr. Noble, under the direction of the Chief Commissioner of Police, did do very considerable work, under the Order in Council first passed, but later on, when the Order in
4 p.m. Council establishing a system of registration officers became effective, it was represented to us that in this district of Sydney there was a very large number of persons of alien enemy nationality, and that there was necessity for establishing a registry office, taking in the whole district. Not very long after that we ascertained, as the hon. member states, that Mr. Noble had been acting for the greater part of that district, and we then restricted the jurisdiction of the registry office to what we believed to be a portion of the district that had not already been dealt with by Mr. Noble.


William F. Carroll: That is the city of
Sydney?


Charles Joseph Doherty: Yes.


William F. Carroll: Mr. Noble had done exactly the same work at Sydney as he has been doing throughout the county.


Charles Joseph Doherty: The purpose was to restrict it to that portion of the district which we understood had not been fully attended to, but there may have been a misunderstanding about that. I do not know what arrangement was made between Commissioner Sherwood and Mr. Noble, but I shall

inquire into it, and I can assure my hon. friend (Mr. Carroll) that there is no desire to avail ourselves of the services of anybody without paying proper remuneration. The representations made to me are to the effect that Mr. Noble's work was well done. I think I may say that the work in that registration district is practically completed, and that it is probable it will not continue very much longer. As to the competency of this young gentleman referred to by my hon. friend, this is the first time my attention has been called to the matter. When we adopted the system of appointing registrars, we asked suggestions from the military officers commanding, and I think that was done in the Maritime Provinces. We then asked the registrar to select his assistants, and under that system it may be-and I have rio doubt the hon. member is satisfied it is so-that unfortunately the gentleman selected for the position he referred to is not competent. I regret very much if it should be so. I shall inquire into the matter and if the facts are as stated I shall certainly take means to rectify it.


William F. Carroll: The same work had been done by Mr. Nobld in the city of Sydney until ithe passing of this Order in Council and afterwards until the 3rd of January, as had been done before. The alien enemies are thickest in the mining 'districts, such as New Waterford, New Aberdeen, Dominion and Bridgeport. There were more alien enemies in New Waterford than in the whole city of Sydney. It *was a surprise to the people of Sydney generally that there should be a register established at Sydney, where Mr. Noble had done all the work as well as all that had been done in the other mining districts.


Charles Marcil: Can the minister give us an idea of the number of alien enemies who have been interned, where they have been located and what work they have been put to, if any?


Charles Joseph Doherty: The camps and stations where the aliens are actually interned are at Halifax, Quebec, Montreal, Toronto, Kingston, Petawawa, Spirit Lake, Kapus-kasing, Brandon, Lethbridge, Vernon and Nanaimo. In addition to these, two camps have been organized-one in the Port Arthur district for 800 prisoners and one at Amherst for 500 prisoners of war now on the way from Jamaica. The total number interned at the different, places

that I ''have enumerated. i3 2,752. The prisoners in Montreal,' who number only 100, are not at work; they are being detained there for the present, getting ready to be moved on.


Charles Marcil: Are they in the old jail?


Charles Joseph Doherty: No, they are not in the jail at all. No prisoner of war that I know of has been put in any jail building. They have been detained-I might almost say in a luxurious building, but at all events, in a building that was provided for the detention of immigrants on St. Antoine street, Montreal. It. is a new building, and we have endeavoured as far as possible to (provide for the comfort of the men. The three principal camps are now Petawawa, where there are 573 men, Spirit lake on the Transcontinental, in . the province of Quebec, where there are 683, and Kapuskasing in the province of Ontario, where there are 438. At Brandon there are 246, at Lethbridge 120, at Vernon 68, and at Nanaimo 97. At Spirit lake and Kapuskasing the men are at work clearing land. The respective provinces of Ontario and Quebec agreed to give to the Department of Agriculture a tract of land in each case of 1,000 acres or thereabouts, which is ultimately intended to be used as a model farm. We have established a camp at each of those two places, and the labour is being utilized in the clearing of the land. Furthermore, we look forward to quite a number of those people settling, under the ordinary provincial laws providing for the taking up of homesteads, in the neighbourhood of the particular locations. It seems to us and it also seems to the provincial authorities that, handling the matter in this way, we are doing a benefit to the locality, a more immediate benefit to the province and an ultimate benefit to the country generally.


William F. Carroll: In regard to the matter of which I was speaking before, Colonel Ingram was registrar at Sydney, and before he went to the front, he had as his chief assistant Bertram Ingram. Mr. Moseley was instructed to keep on the staff that Colonel Ingram had there. He kept them all on but Mr. Bertram Ingram, Colonel Ingram's assistant. After Mr. Moseley had been in office some days, Bertram Ingram was advised by the department that his services were no longer required, and that another gentleman by the name of Gillis, a quite capable man,
*was put in his place. Why were Mr. Bertram Ingram's services dispensed with ?


Charles Joseph Doherty: There was no particular reason. As I said a moment ago, we adopted the policy of allowing the registrar to secure his own assistant. Colonel Ingram was the first registrar, and the gentleman referred to was a relative of his. There is no reflection in that at all. When Colonel Ingram went to the front and his position .became vacant, Mr. Moseley was appointed. I was informed that Mr. Moseley was allowed the privilege of appointing his own assistant. Those positions are not considered as permanent, because it is only temporary work. At the outset, it seemed to us that for this temporary work, if the gentleman were a suitable person to be appointed as registrar, probably the most satisfactory way of getting the work done would be to allow him to appoint his own assistant. The functions of the office will be terminated very shortly now. The termination of Mr. Ingram's appointment was due to the fact that Mr. Moseley coming In, availed himself of the privilege given to him of securing his own assistant.


William F. Carroll: I understood Mr. Bertram Ingram got his dismissal through the department at Ottawa.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I can ascertain that. The matter came before me in some connection. If I am not mistaken, the hon. member or some one else asked me a question on the subject. Speaking from memory, I may say that, Mr. Moseley having communicated to us his action in the matter, we, who had been paying the salary of Mr. Ingram,- felt it proper to communicate to him the fact that a change had taken place.
Expenses of litigated matters connected with the Department of Justice, $13,000.


William Manley German: The creation of the office of Solicitor General of Canada was the result of a desire to avoid the payment of large fees to outside counsel in connection with the business of the Department of Justice. When Sir Charles Fitzpatrick was Solicitor General, he took briefs for the Crown in the Supreme Court and in the Exchequer Court, and he did save a considerable sum of money e_aeh year during which he held office as Solicitor General. Nowadays, however, -the Solicitor General does not take briefs in court or attend to the legal business which was had in view when the office of Solicitor General was first established. I am not blaming the

present Solicitor General any more than the Solicitor General under the former Government, but it is my opinion that the whole object of the establishment of the office of Solicitor General has been overlooked. The position has become a political one. It is a necessary position; the Solicitor General may have duties to perform in connection with the executive affairs of Government, but the office does not exist as a department of Government in the way that it existed when it was first established. The idea that the Solicitor General should take briefs for and act, one might say, as senior counsel for the Government, thus effecting the great saving to the Treasury of Canada which was the object of his appointment. I should like to know whether we are ever to return to the original conception of the duties of this office, or whether the Solicitor General is to continue as a political appointee and not as a useful member of the Government?


Charles Joseph Doherty: If the hon. gentleman had kept as close an eye on the Solicitor General as he would have us to understand he did, he would have been aware that the Solicitor General has attended to quite a number of important things for this Government, and I am glad to have the opportunity of recognizing his valuable services in that regard.


William Manley German: In what cases?


Charles Joseph Doherty: We will ask the hon. Solicitor General to give a list of them, if the hon. gentleman desires it. The hon. gentleman should not have spoken quite so soon without being certain of "his information. I think it would be perfectly fair to point out also that since the office of Solicitor General was originally established, there has been a very; considerable increase in the work to be done in' connection with the administration of justice in the different departments. If one looks at the increase in the number of applications for release under the Ticket-of-leave Act, one will realize at once that there is a great deal more than one man's work to be done in that connection. I do not think I make any mistake in saying that within the last, three or four years the increase has been from 75 to 100 per cent-more nearly 100 per cent than 75. In that connection the Solicitor General has rendered most valuable service, and wherever else there may be room for criticism in connection with the department,
I think the hon. member selected certainly the least vulnerable point when he

selected the Solicitor General for the subject of his attack.


William Manley German: Surely the hon. Minister of Justice does not suggest that the high capabilities of the Solicitor General should be devoted almost exclusively to considering applications for tickets of leave. A junior clerk could attend to that part of the work.


Charles Joseph Doherty: The hon. member will allow me to differ from his opinion in that respect. I think there is no more important work in connection with the Department of Justice than the matter of advising His Royal Highness with respect to the exercising of clemency. I am glad to have the abilities of the Solicitor General devoted to it, and, besides, I myself, have always felt it my duty to give quite a considerable amount of time to the matter.


Charles Marcil: Will the minister tell the committee something about the methods employed at present in connection with the ticket of leave system?


Charles Joseph Doherty: In dealing with tickets of leave I do not think it is possible to lay down any absolute rule that any convict who does a particular thing or things will get a ticket of leave; one has to be guided very largely by the circumstances of each case. One important factor in determining whether the crown should be advised to exercise clemency is whether the party has one or more offences to his charge. The conduct of the man while in prison is a factor, though, perhaps, not as important a factor as the one which I have just mentioned. The circumstances of the case are reported to us by the judge before whom the applicant was tried; sometimes we have the advantage of reports from the prosecuting counsel or from some other persons who are in a position to give us valuable information with regard to the particular circumstances of the case. Then we have the services-and they are very valuable-of the parole officer, who in a large number of cases makes particular inquiry as to the antecedents of the person concerned and as to circumstances connected with his offence that may not have come out at the trial. We endeavour to give in each case the proper weight to each one of these considerations. Of course, the fact that a man is a first offender is in itself a consideration of very great importance.	.
We have to consider the period of time for

which the man has been sentenced, the 'period he has served, and so forth. I think it would be difficult to hv down a policy on the subject. The policy. that we have tried to follow involves careful examination of each particular case, and in each particular case we endeavour to give our best consideration' and soundest judgment to those circumstances which make for or against the exercise of clemency.


Charles Marcil: Is it the practice of the department to give a ticket-of-leave after a certain number of years to a man under a life sentence?


Charles Joseph Doherty: We have given tickets-of-leave to men who have been under life [DOT] sentence. In that connection of course we have had to take into consideration all the different circumstances to which I referred a moment ago. I do not know that there was ever an absolute policy that a man under a life sentence should under no circumstances obtain a ticket-of-leave. I do not think there has been any change from the practice that prevailed before we came into office.


Hon. ARTHUR MEIGHEN (Solicitor General) :: I did not know whether the path of error that had been blazed by the hon. member for Welland (Mr. German) was to be followed by other hon. gentlemen opposite. I have had reference to the Act establishing the office of Solicitor General, which was passed in 1889 I believe, and have noted the purposes for which the Act was passed and the duties there laid down on the incumbent of the office. The duties are simply described as "to assist in the work of the Department of Justice." Surely it will be^manifest to the hon. member for Welland that there are many ways in which that work can be assisted besides taking part in the litigious work of the department I observed my hon. friend to say that the practice which was established in 1889 of the Solicitor General taking cases for the Government into the courts of Canada had fallen into disuse and become utterly extinct. From what information I have I am very much disposed to agree. I have understood that it became extinct, like many other good practices, under the late Government, and I am of the opinion the hon. member for Three Rivers (Mr. Bureau) will confirm what I say in that regard. However, it has met with a revival. Since I have had the honour of holding that position and have had time, I have endeavoured to the best of my capacity to do some service for the department and for the country in the way of conducting cases.
Mr. DEVL-IN: Did you win any cases?


Arthur Meighen: I will answer the hon.
member for Wright (Mr. Devlin). The late Government, in the course of their conduct of affairs, took occasion to expropriate certain property near the city of Winnipeg. The late Government made an offer of a certain sum for the property, but it was refused by the owners. The Government-entered into no negotiations, as a prudent man would have done, with a view to purchasing the property-and I believe it might have been purchased then-and, as a consequence, a heavy problem devolved upon this Administration, namely, the settlement of the damages for that property. It involved a claim in the Exchequer Court against the Government of Canada-the largest claim, I think, that has ever been made against the Government. It involved a suit that in length of time and legal difficulties involved will compare very favourably, I think, with any suit that has ever been brought in the Exchequer Court. Necessarily there would be a judgment against the Government but perhaps it would satisfy even the hon. member for Wright himself if he succeeded in securing a judgment which was only about 5 per cent of that demanded by the complainants. So that if he considers a 5 per cent judgment against the Crown a successful issue on the part of the Department of Justice, then I can claim a success.


Emmanuel Berchmans Devlin: In other words, you lost the case.


Arthur Meighen: In other words, the
hon. member for Wright holds that it is the duty of the Crown to take the property of individuals and pay nothing for it; that unless the Department of Justice succeeds * in enabling the Crown to defraud the people of this country, the Department of Justice loses its case. But that is not the attitude we assume. We believe we got a judgment according to the law and a fair judgment; so successful, indeed, that the other parties to the suit have entered an appeal and notified us that they purpose proceeding not only through the Supreme Court of Canada but to the Privy Council in England. We do not feel so-badly over the judgment that we have appealed against it. There have also been other cases, but I need not go into them in detail. I do not think the course we have pursued is under challenge. I

know the hon. member for Welland (Mr. German) is now convinced that the very good practice that was once in vogue has been revived under this Administration. I know that he regrets he did not make his complaint when there was cause to make it, and when he might have done a service to his constituency and to the country. The other work, as the minister has stated, has grown at a great rate. Indeed he has underestimated the rate at which the applications for parole have proceeded. They are now more than double what they were in October, 1911, and are still increasing. The number that daily comes before us for adjudication is about fifteen, and that of course occupies some little time. At all events it will be my stern endeavour to live up to the duties imposed upon me to the best of my ability, and I trust that if I set a good example in that regard the hon. member for Welland, when in good time he reaches this post, will strain his energies to the uttermost to follow the same creditable course.


William Manley German: Rather than regretting
that I brought up the question I am rather pleased that I did so, as I can now more strongly justify the assertion that I made. Whatever the statute may say as to the duties, the fact remains that the position of Solicitor General was created for the reason that I stated so much legal work was being done by outside counsel that it wras thought in the interests of the country that a Solicitor General should be appointed to act on behalf of the Crown in all cases which came before the Supreme Court or the Exchequer Court. The salary of the Solicitor General was fixed at $4,000 a year, he being also a member of the House with a sessional indemnity of $1,500, as it was then. But this Government has raised the position of Solicitor General to the dignity of a minister of the Crown, with a salary of $7,000. Is not that correct?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I think the hon. member is mistaken again.


William Manley German: Is it still $4,000?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I think it is $5,000, as it always was. We have not raised it in any event.


William Manley German: Very well. The Solicitor General has not indicated any cases that he has conducted in court except the one in connection with the expropriation of land in Winnipeg. The duties of the Solici-
tor General were to be to take cases in court for the Government and so relieve the Treasury from the payment of large counsel fees to outside counsel. These counsel fees are still being paid and are continually increasing, and the Solicitor General at the present time is not performing the duties for which he was originally appointed, that is, to take cases in court and to look after the business of the Government in court.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I can only express my regret that Parliament did not prescribe as the hon. gentleman says was the intention. That may have been the intention of my hon. friend, but Parliament left it to the discretion of the Department of Justice how best the services of the Solicitor General might be availed of.


Charles Avila Wilson: How many cases
has the Solicitor General , pleaded since his appointment, and in what courts?


Arthur Meighen: The Department of Justice has under review continually a very great number of cases in very many of which the Solicitor General himself takes a part, if not in the actual conduct of the case in court, in the preparation of the case and in the various legal discussions that necessarily are entailed. At the present time I have under my actual conduct, I think, four distinct cases. I do not interest, myself in all cases. I do not think it is within the capacity of any man to interest himself in all. [DOT]


Charles Avila Wilson: Supposing the Department of Justice has a case in the Exchequer Court, the Supreme Court, or the Privy Council, who is to fight the case before the judges?


Arthur Meighen: Usually the Deputy
Minister of Justice.


Jacques Bureau: The Solicitor General
seems to credit me with having locked the door in the Solicitor General's office and closing up business when I went in there. When I left, I did. I am not going to enumerate or go into details, I shall just refer him to Mr. Justice Cassels for information as to how many cases I took in the Exchequer Court.


Mr. CASGRAIN:: We shall have him before the Bar of tne House.


Jacques Bureau: Of course you cannot : -certain this from the records, because the

name of the Attorney General appears on the record in every case.


Wilfrid Laurier: Since the
Solicitor General is so energetic-and I know he is energetic in whatever field he is working-I would bring to his attention the case to which I have already referred twice during the session-those of the landowners at Valcartier who have not yet been paid the money due them in connection with expropriations. The Militia Department informed me the other day that all the cases which have not been settled have been referred to the Department of Justice. I brought to the attention of the House a letter from the solicitor of several of these people whose lands had been expropriated and who have not yet seen the colour of the money of the Government; I brought up letters asking why the Government, since they have not paid, cannot institute proceedings at once. The first letter was sent to the Government on the 9th of November, but on the 10th of this month no process had been issued. I bring these facts to the attention of my hon. friend, in the hope that he will take this matter up himself and have it attended to at once.


Arthur Meighen: I shall be very pleased to look into the matter in the department. I trust, if the result is a satisfactory settlement, that my right hon. friend will not follow the example of the -hon. member for Welland and complain that it is not taken into court.


Wilfrid Laurier: That is not very satisfactory. This is the third time I have been told by occupants of the Treasury benches that they will be pleased to look into the matter.


Charles Joseph Doherty: This time I might follow it up. This minister is pleased to say that he has been very pleased to look into the matter, and has given instructions that it be proceeded with so far as the papers are in his department and without any delay whatever, and that it be verified whether all the papers have come or not. I iva-s not present when the right hon. gentleman raised the question the last time. I had the advantage of seeing his observations in Hansard, and I gave those instructions. My hon. friend the Postmaster General says that a number of cases have been quite recently settled. That would be done through the Department of Militia.


Wilfrid Laurier: My complaint was that these cases should have been settled not recently but long ago, and it has been simply by calling the attention of the House and the Government to the fact that at last something has been done.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I am not in a position to control precisely what matters did come to our depai'tment for action; but I can say that when they did come, in some of the cases it was found that there were difficulties with regard to the titles that had to be cle.ared up. Before the right hon. gentleman raised the question my attention was called by a memorandum to the fact that the titles of some of these parties, ostensible owners, required to be looked into.


Wilfrid Laurier: The cases I drew to the attention of the House were not delayed on account of insufficiency of title, hut of disagreement as to the amount to be paid.


Jacques Bureau: Has the minister any personal knowledge of an information taken to expropriate land-at Nicolet for a wharf? I read some time ago in the Star that the 6um of 5450 had been offered to the Episcopal corporation of the diocese of Nicolet for a certain piece of land which had been refused; that proceedings -had been instituted by the Crown, and had come in conflict with certain laws or canons of the church which put the Attorney General in the position of a man who would be excommunicated if he proceeded with the case?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I need not express the intense alarm with which an intimation of possible excommunication coming from such a high ecclesiastical -authority as the hon. member for Three Rivers inspires me. I am all the more terrified that it comes at the very outset and for the first time from him.


Jacques Bureau: It came from the Star, your organ, which is a higher authority than I am.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I have not the -advantage of controlling that particular twinkling orb. I might say that I am not aware that any suggestion such as the hon. gentleman indicates has been made; it has not come to my personal knowledge. My recollection is that an effort was made to secure a property, but as there was some objection to it being taken I understood that consideration was given to the possibility of providing an

equally convenient wharf at another place. We would seek, in locating a wharf in any locality, to place it where it would he most suitable and convenient and give rise to the least inconvenience to the people of the district.


Jacques Bureau: I do not want the minister to lead the country and the House to believe that I am taking the lead in this case and acting as an ecclesiastical authority.


Wilfrid Laurier: They would not believe it.


Jacques Bureau: I hope they would not believe it. I feel sorry for the minister, coming down from the bench and then being excommunicated. My authority is the Star. I think I can produce the clipping.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I am not excommunicated yet. I will inform him when it comes.
Expenses under the Pecuniary Claims Convention with the United States, $25,000.


Wilfrid Laurier: I would ask for some information upon that. Have some these claims been settled?


Charles Joseph Doherty: There has been adjudication upon a certain number of claims but I am not aware that there has been any actual settlement or payment made. It is anticipated that when a number have been decided there will be a settlement.
Penitentiaries-Kingston, $210,600.


Mr. EDWARDS:: The last report of the hon. Minister of Justice (Mr. Doherty) is for the year ended March 31, 1913. I regret that the report for txie fiscal year ended March 31, 1914, is not before us; therefore, I will have to take what is available. The report which I have in my hand gives the population of the various penitentiaries in Canada as 1,970. The population, I presume, has gone up to the 2,000 mark within the last year. It is worth noting that this report states that the increase in the number of convicts in our penitentiaries in the last ten years has been 56 per cent. It is also worth noting that the increase in the number of Canadian-born convicts in the last decade is only 10 per cent. I would like to call the attention of the committee to the fact that taking the convicts in our various penitentiaries per 10,000 of each nationality, the number is only 1.75 for Canada and 8.7 for the United States and a3.3 per cent for Italy. The-figures are to my mind very startling. I also want to direct attention

to the fact that there are in our various penitentiaries 229 convicts under 20 years of age or about 10 per cent of the total population Of tne penitentiary. There are 875 convicts between the ages of 20 and 30 or a little over 44 per cent; 55 per cent of the present population consist of convicts under 30 years of age.
The increase in the number of our convict population seems to me to indicate beyond any doubt that the system which does at present, and has for years, prevailed in -regard to the administration of our penitentiaries whether under the late Government or under the present Government has been a failure. Some weeks ago I placed a question on the Order Paper asking for certain information in regard to the penitentiary at Portsmouth. The answer to this question would seem to me to be an endeavour to convey the idea that things at the penitentiary at Portsmouth had. very greatly improved in the last three months or since u.e investigation which was conducted a short time ago. I believe that there has been improvement in one or two respects at least. For" instance, I do not think there have been any insane convicts subjected to the tubbing which had prevailed to a certain extent previous to the investigation, The minister says himself, in answer to one of my questions, that there has been no hosing of convicts since the investigation and that it is under consideration as to whether it will be done away with or not. But, Mr. Chairman, notwithstanding one or two changes of this character, I think that the general conditions prevailing in that institution-and I dare say the conditions are very similar in the other	institutions-are	very
much the same as they were before the investigation was held. I regret to express the opinion that, if that is true, it is true largely oecause the commission appointed to investigate did not investigate as thoroughly as it should have done, In order that the committee may understand that there is a general opinion throughout the country that conditions are not what they should be, I am going to quote at some length from editorials in various papers published in this province and in the province of Quebec. I shall quote from papers on both sides of politics. The Kingston Standard, Montreal News, Toronto Globe, Toronto News, Hamilton Herald, Hamilton Spectator, London Free Press, Ottawa Free Press, London Adver-

tiser, and others, have taken up the matter and with one accord they condemn the existing conditions and deplore the delay in righting those conditions. I want to place on Hansard some editorial opinions from some of these papers-and let me say that these editorial utterances were published just a short time before Parliament assembled this year and long after the report of the investigating committee was brought down. The Kingston Standard says editorially:
So long1 as sick men are treated more like animals than like human beings, it can scarcely he said with truth that they are receiving justice in the fullest and largest sense of the word.
And again:
The stone pile still holds out-that infamous place of refined torture where men are not only breaking stone but are -breaking their hearts as well-a place where the finest intellects are stunted and finally deadened and where hopes are blasted and buried for ever.
And again:
As a matter of common humanity it desires to emphasize that the sooner action is taken the better.
The Toronto Globe refers to:
The barbarous and indefensible treatment of prisoners in the Portsmouth penitentiary for a year after an official report made the public familiar with what was and is being done in their name and with their sanction.
Again:
On every citizen rests the responsibility of seeing that the disgraceful conditions disclosed by the inquiry at the Portsmouth penitentiary are remedied.
Again:
It is impossible to believe that the public are indifferent to appeals against the degrading, brutalizing, disheartening processes that stunt the mind as well as cripple the body. The stone pile is still there a monument to governmental incompetence. The colossal stupidity of the men on whom it imposes as a pretence of productive labour is incomprehensible. It certainly does not impose on the dullest convict. He sees he is not working productively, but is subjected to a dreary and crippling routine that serves to deprive him of the results of effort, dull his senses, dwarf his mind, kill his ambition, and fill him with undying resentment at a cruel and protracted wrong.
Again, from the Toronto Globe:
Restriction of correspondence to one letter every two months is another unexplained infliction. It suggests a determination to prevent the incarcerated from being reached by humanizing influences.
Again, from the Toronto Globe:
The commission dimly comprehended the fact that it was dealing with one of the deepest problems of organized society. It revealed enough
to prove the existence of cruel and stupid wrongs against the imprisoned. It is strange and even lamentable that the report has been received in official circles with an almost childish distortion of vision. The feature of disclosure that impressed official authority was not the partial drownings, not the shocking hospital conditions, not the lack of medical attendance, but the fact that some employees had understated their ages when applying for appointments. The treatment of the imprisoned is an accurate measure of the governmental conscience.
Again, from the Toronto Globe:
Some one must champion the men whose sufferings are intentionally inflicted by organized society and whose complaints are unheeded. While such things continue the men on the outside of our prisons are in deep disgrace, whatever may be the verdict of the world on the imprisoned.
The object of Doctor Edwards, and of all who aid in this needed reform, is to end a notorious crime on the part of organized society, not to embarrass or cast reflections on any Government, minister or official.
I want to say that for that last sentence 'of the Toronto Globe I want to express my thanks. This leading Liberal newspaper of Canada has, I think in that sense, been more just and fair to me than those ffom whom I might naturally expect fair treatment. The London Free Press says:
It is a reflection upon the humanity of Canada when it is stated that even sick men at this institution are treated without consideration. Apparently the idea prevails at Portsmouth that the aim and purpose of a penitentiary is to break men. Brutality that does not stop short of the inadequate care of the sick; that drives men to the daily task of breaking stones as a punishment and that refuses to the convict all knowledge of his loved ones save once in two months is unworthy of this free country.
The Ottawa Free Press:
The utmost cruelty exists in the administration of the prison hospital at the Portsmouth penitentiary.
The London Advertiser:
While there is much talk about the abolition of capital punishment it is questionable if it would be less cruel to end the lives of some of the men who are sent into Canada's jails and penitentiaries than to allow them to he brutalized and deprived of every fine quality.
And again it refers to the penitentiaries:
As these dreary criminal universities where a man comes out with a higher degree in crime than he could ever secure In the loose unorganized school of the open world.
Again the London Advertiser states:
They (the convicts) should not be handled like delicate pieces of china but they should be given a chance to square accounts and not to be transformed into moral, mental and physical ciphers.

The Toronto News:
Prisoners, it is said, are treated more like animals than human beings. Surely this is a longstanding abuse that should be removed.
The Montreal News:
Our system of prisons is admittedly archaic and improvements competently suggested ought to be made.
The Hamilton Herald:
The evidence taken discloses revolting conditions at that institution-unnecessarily harsh treatment of prisoners as a matter of system, brutalities perpetrated by individual officials, the enforcement of a policy of repression which must have had the opposite of a reformatory effect. There was also disclosed the fact that there had been undue favouritism in the appointment of minor officials and discrimination in treatment against some.
Again:
You will never reform a criminal by cruel treatment. More probably you will succeed only in confirming him in his criminal tendencies.
The above are from very recent edi-. torials, and I have taken them from what I think I may safely call the leading newspapers of this country. Their opinions should, it seems to me, receive very serious consideration., I want to add another extract, from the Toronto Globe, which on November 3rd last said:
Many convicts in Canadian prisons are willing to enlist and take their chance in the war rather than serve out. the terms to which they have been sentenced. Kingston's recent investigation, although handicapped by the terror and reluctance of ex-convicts, revealed conditions from which an ordinary man would naturally turn to the worst horrors of war without the slightest promptings of patriotism. Torturing, tauntings, goadings, annoyances and the dreary routine with tortures awaiting every overflow of the goaded spirit must create p mental condition ready to welcome any change.
As I have said, these are extracts from leading newspapers of the country.	I
believe there are crimes which are not recorded on our statute books, crimes of organized society against those who have violated the laws of society. I want to say right here and now that I believe the conditions in our penitentiaries are, to say the least, deplorable. My sole object is to see an improvement in these conditions that will give the men who are
5	p.m. unfortunately incarcerated,	a
chance to make good in this world. That is my object.
Now, Mr. Chairman, it is quite a while since I first took this matteT up. It is over three years since I first drew the attention of the Minister of Justice to the conditions at Kingston penitentiary. It

was on the 2nd of December, 1912, that I made certain 'Specific charges against certain of the officials of that institution. On the 25th of August, 1913, 18 months after I had made my charges verbally and 9 months after I had made these charges in writing, a commission was appointed to investigate the charges I had made and the general conditions obtaining in our penitentiaries. Speaking on this subject a year ago, I made my comments in regard to that commission, and I drew attention to certain parts of the evidence which warranted me, I thought, in saying that the commissioners had deliberately falsified and misrepresented the evidence they had taken. I feel so certain and strong of my position in that regard that I would say that if I cannot easily establish from the evidence that was taken that they repeatedly misrepresented the evidence in their report to this House, and in some instances absolutely falsified the evidence in that report, I would be willing to resign my seat in this House and Tetire from public life forever. That is, at least, an indication of how certain I feel in making that very strong statement. I shall not go over in detail the various Instances to which I referred last session, but there aTe some things to which I want to refer, and to which, in justice to myself and to my object, it is my duty to refer.


Charles Avila Wilson: Will the hon. member be good enough to give the names of tl ese gentlemen who have falsified the evidence ?


William Cameron Edwards: The names of the commissioners, they being the gentlemen to whom I refer, are: G. M. Macdonell, J. C. Downey, and Dr. Etherington.


Charles Avila Wilson: Is my hon. friend so certain that the evidence has been falsified and falsely reported by the commission that he is willing to give up his seat in order to support his contention?


William Cameron Edwards: 
Charles Avila Wilson: Are you sorry for it now?


William Cameron Edwards: If my hon. friend will possess his soul in patience, he can draw his own inference from my remarks as I go along.	I want to say further that
in supporting Colonel Hughes for that position, I had pretty good encouragement from many sources. He was supported by a large number of hon. members from the province of Ontario, sitting on this side of the House. He was supported by a number of members from the Ontario Legislature on the Conservative side. He was supported by several Conservative associations passing resolutions. He had been recommended by men high up in the Department of Justice in this country in the past. Sir Charles Fitzpatrick, Sir Oliver Mowat and others, who had been Ministers of Justice in Canada had spoken very highly of Mr. Hughes, and Mr. Hughes had been in the penitentiary in one capacity or another for twenty years. All that was sufficient to warrant me in feeling that he would fill the position of warden very successfully. Mr. Hughes, in the course of his seeking for that position made charges against certain officials of the institution. What he said was largely, though not entirely, the basis of the charges which I made against the deputy warden and against the surgeon, and subsequently against the hospital overseer. His information was corroborated by information given to me by others. WTien Col. W. S, Hughes was inspector and came before the commission to give evidence, I was very much surprised at the first sentence which fell from his lips in reply to a question from me. He said to me: "I am not going to tell all I know about the Kingston penitentiary."

I was somewhat surprised, and asked him why. He said "I am now Inspector of penitentiaries, and I am not going into details in connection with that institution." Later he went into the box and took the usual oath to tell the truth, and the whole truth. I call attention to the following paragraph appearing on page 7 of the last report of the Minister of Justice:
During the past year-
That is, the year when this investigation was going on.

the penitentiaries have been subjected to more than the usual quota of criticism. It is needless to state that fair constructive criticism is welcomed and helpful, and receives careful consideration. by those engaged in the task of administering penal institutions. There is a class of criticism, however, which is merely the parrot-like reiteration of the mis-statements of officials who have violated their oath of office, or the equally unreliable vapourings of ex-convicts who seek notoriety. Such criticism is unfair and injurious. There is no close season -to protect officials from such attacks. They can do so only in their annual reports.
This is signed by the two inspectors, Douglas Stewart and W. S. Hughes.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I notice that my hon. friend, perhaps inadvertently, mentions the report as being that of the Minister of Justice. He has, however, pointed out that it is signed by the inspectors who made the report.


William Cameron Edwards: I thank the minister for the correction. I merely read from the cover of the report, which states that it is the report of the Minister of Justice as to the penitentiaries of Canada. No fault is to be found with Inspector Douglas Stewart in connection with the writing of that paragraph. I have not the slightest doubt but that Inspector Stewart felt that he could have made that language a good deal stronger. But what do hon. gentlemen think of W. S. Hughes signing his name to that report, a man who, more than anybody else and more than all others put together, has violated his oath by giving out information in regard to that institution? Last year I said that in my estimation there was discrimination along religious lines; that, either consciously . or unconsciously, favouritism was shown by the deputy warden. What authority did I have for making ithat statement? I had in the first place the authority of a return which was brought down in the House in answer to a question which I put to the Secretary of State. In this return the information is given -that a few years ago seven out of the ten

keepers were Roman Catholics, and that of 20 disciplinary officers some 14 or 15 were of that particular faith. That is why I made the statement that it appeared to me that there was favouritism or discrimination. But that was not all. I have in my hand a statement by Mr. Hughes, which he himself prepared for me right here in this building, in room 16, and in which he gives me.some information in that connection. He has furnished me also with a list of his various qualifications for the position which he was seeking. He had a letter which, when I first saw it, I thought was a spontaneous outburst of admiration for Mr. Hughes on the part of guards and ex-guards of Kingston penitentiary. Later, however, I found out that the letter was prepared by Mr. Hughes himself; that all the adulation which was therein contained was the work of his own pen. In addition to that, I have certain statements which Mr. Hughes made with regard to officials in the penitentiary. I have been represented as being actuated by improper motives; as going round with a bowie knife in my belt ready to take the scalp off any person not entertaining the same religious beliefs as I do. I am trying to live that objection down; I hope that not many members of this committee hold that opinion of me. However, I am going to give one of the remarks made by an inspector of the peni-ientiary in regard to one of the officials of the penitentiary; it is in the statement which Mr. Hughes kindly prepared for me. Mr. Hughes says that Rev. Father McDonald, the Roman Catholic chaplain of Kingston penitentiary, in addressing the prisoners in the chapel of the penitentiary, said that " any one who said he was saved outside the church of Rome is a liar, a scoundrel, and a fakir." These are not my words; they are the words which Inspector W. S. Hughes says were used by Father McDonald, the Roman Catholic chaplain.


Charles Avila Wilson: Was that written in room 16?


William Cameron Edwards: It makes no difference
where it was written. I have said that it is a statement made by Mr. Hughes, who makes this comment in regard to the statement which he places in the mouth of Father McDonald:
This was spoken from the pulpit in the prison, and should show very plainly where the trouble arose.
Inspector Hughes refers to the mis-statements of officials who violated their oaths

of office, and also to criticisms of the penitentiaries. A certain guard of the name of Smith was suspended for not attending to duty. In his report Inspector Hughes finds fault with officials because of their violating their oaths of office-and it is a violation of his oath of office if an official writes to anybody outside about matters affecting the penitentiary. Inspector Hughes says that Smith got a raw deal in the matter of his suspension. I have other letters from the gentleman, but will not take the time to place them on Hansard. I think that I am justified in letting the committee understand the position which Mr. Hughes has occupied in the past. I have not any particular reason to be proud of the course the commission took; my faith in humanity was not strengthened by their course. It was not until after I came to know and understand Inspector Hughes that I fully realized the import of the words used in one of Shakespeare's plays:
You have among you many a purchased slave,
Which, like your asses, and your dogs, and mules,	.
You use in abject and in slavish parts,
Because you bought them.
'Mr. Hughes's salary as accountant of the penitentiary was very different from his salary as inspector of penitentiaries. I do not know whether the salary had anything to do with Mr. Hughes's attitude. But I know that a man by his name who a year ot two ago was drawing a salary of 11.700 is to-day drawing a salary of $3,700 as inspector of penitentiaries and about $7 or $8 a day as colonel of the 21st battalion. In the course of my remarks last session I had to refer to Deputy Warden O'Leary, Dr. Phelan and hospital overseer Wilson. I made certain charges against those men, and I made those charges because I thought it was my duty to do so. I do not believe that, no matter how earnest and sincere the present Minister of Justice may be in his desire to rectify conditions at the Kingston penitentiary, it will be possible for him to rectify those conditions with those men holding the offices that they do. Others may differ from me in that regard; but I am stating my belief and, holding that belief, I think I should put before this committee certain reasons why I think these men are not fit for the positions which they occupy.
I shall not refer at length to the commission issued to the three gentlemen at Kingston. I have already said that in my judgment it was a mistake to appoint two 110
men or even one man on that commission from the city of Kingston, for reasons which appear to me to be obvious. These men were well acquainted with the officials involved, with the friends of those officials; and it was asking a good deal of citizens of Kingston to expect them to be in every respect entirely fair. I also think it was a mistake to appoint Mr. Downey, an official of the Ontario Government, as the third member of the commission. It seemed proper to the minister to place a five-year limit on the instructions that he gave to the commission. I have said before, and I say now, that I do not think that was fair to me; certainly it was not fair to me as it worked out. The minister may argue that he intended the commissioners to disregard the five-year limit as far as. my charges were concerned. The fact remains that they did not see fit to disregard the five-year limit, and I was placed in the unfortunate position of making certain charges -which the commissioners would not investigate at all, which they ruled out entirely. I think it would have been a little kinder if it had been intimated to me that they did not want to go into some charges which I had made; in fact, they might have been deleted-left out of consideration altogether. For instance, I made a charge of perjury against Deputy Warden O'Leary. This went away back to sixteen years ago. That charge was never investigated as the commissioners say it was. That was one of the misstatements they made. I say that charge was never investigated. In their report they say it rested only upon the unsupported statement of ex-guard Patterson. That also is incorrect, because before that commission, in the presence of eight or ten people and under oath, Inspector Hughes said that if the 'deputy were to receive a sentence of three years for every charge of perjury he could prove against him, he would spend the rest of his days behind the walls. That statement was made before the commission. I want to give some additional reasons why I think O'Leary'is not a fit and proper person for the position he holds, and why it is not in the interest of reform that he should remain at that institution. I think I suggested some time ago the desirability, so far as the wardens and deputy wardens and Certain, tother heads and officials of our penitentiaries are concerned, that they should be appointed, not as the warden or deputy warden of a certain institution, but as a warden or deputy warden of penitentiaries; and I



would repeat that, in my judgment, it would be advisable, even with the best officers, to transfer them at times from one institution to another. I believe it would have a good effect, as there is a tendency for these men to get into a rut if they remain for a long time in the one institution. I said that Deputy Warden O'Leary had shown evidence of a callous indifference which unfitted him, in my opinion, for the office he held. For instance, he made the remark to a guard that he should let a convict hang, but wind his clock; that was of more importance than anything else. The commission in their report attempted to show that that statement was not correct; but we have evidence in the report, we have the statement of Greer as to what took place. Greer swears that the deputy reprimanded him for being late in winding his clock. When he explained why he was late the deputy passed the remark: "Let the man hang, but wind your clock!" The commissioners read into Greer's evidence something which Greer's evidence does not contain. They say that Greer stated that he was on duty in 1907, and that the prisoner whom he cut down, had died two years before that, and that therefore Greer's statement was wrong. That was not fair. Greer in his evidence states that he would not attempt to give dates in regard to that or any other occurrence. He said he was on permanent night duty for eleven months previous to finally leaving the institution; but he said nothing about not being on night duty temporarily at various times. I have an affidavit from Greer which I think I should place on Hansard, because his honour and his word have been questioned by the commission. He says:
I,	Samuel Greer, of the city of Kingston, in tile county of Frontenac, make oath and say:
1.	That I was a guard at the Kingston penitentiary from October, 1895, to September, 1907.
2.	I gave evidence before the Royal Commission and was questioned as to an incident that happened during the time I was a guard, j stated that I could not give the date of the occurrence, and could not give any dates for happenings, and had no records of anything that happened while I was on duty.
3.	That I was on duty in the asylum at night, and when on my rounds to wind the clock and make inspection, I found a convict named Bishop hanging to the bars of his cell. X went at once to rescue him and succeeded in bringing him to life. The time occupied in reviving Bishop made me late in winding the record clock, and I was asked by Deputy Warden OT,eary why I was late, and I told him I had been rescuing a convict who was hanging in his cell, and he said that if I found any convict hanging again to attend to my clock first and

that the conviot would not hang while I was winding my clock.
4.	I reported this to Chief Keeper Hughes, who is now Inspector Hughes, and he told me that any time I saw a man in danger to save life first at all hazards, and he would see that I was protected.
S.	J. Greer.
Sworn before me at the city of Kingston, in the county of Frontenac, this 20th March, A.D. 1915.
Geo. H. Smythe,
A commissioner, etc.
I have also here testimonials from Mr. Hughes, from O'Leary himself, and from ex-Warden Platt, speaking in the highest terms of Greer's efficiency and reliability. If that was only one instance, perhaps it would not be worth citing, but that is not the only instance. Subsequent to that, another guard named Mar,sh found this same convict attempting to commit suicide.
By the way, you wdil find corroboration of what I have said in regard to Greer on page 417 of the evidence, and in regard to Marsh on page 658 of the evidence. That information is not given in the report of the commission, but I will give it now. Marsh found this convict hanging. Remembering how Greer had been reprimanded, he left the convict hanging, went out and wound his clock, and then came back and cut him down. I am informed they had considerable difficulty in bringing him to. That is only another instance of the callousness of the deputy. Guard Aiken (page 394) stopped in his rounds to pick up a sick convict who had fallen out of his cot and vomited on the floor. He helped him into liis cot, cleaned up the floor, and then wound his clock. This made him late, and he was reprimanded for being late by the deputy, who said that it was not his business to look after the sick convict. I cite these three instances as indicating, to my mind at least, a callousness and indifference on the part of the deputy which unfits him for the position he holds. The minister may think differently, and of course he will act upon what he thinks.
In regard to hosing. A certain cell was constructed specially for the purpose of hosing, that is, the corners of the cell were rounded off so that the victim could not get away from the action of the water. The hose has been used on convicts at different times at a pressure of 60 pounds to the square inch, and I believe that Inspector Stewart said that at St. Vincent de Paul Penitentiary the pressure was even as high as 75 pounds to the square inch. The report

of the commission in regard to this may be found on page 18. It says:
The victim must cry out for mercy or suffer physical collapse. But as a disciplinary agency it should he ranked with the rack and the thumb-screw, cruel and inhuman.
That is the opinion of the commission in regard to hosing. On page 17 we have this extract from the report: "The convicts who were hosed describe the punishment as terrible." On page 17 Ex-Warden Platt says:
In his evidence the doctor said he did not like hosing, and he never ordered it again.
He only used the hose once and never used it again. On page 18 of the report Inspector Stewart says:
The hose succeeds where nothing else will. It never fails to beat an incorrigible convict into submission. Very few men who will not give in in 30 to 60 seconds.	[DOT]
Q. Is that the most severe punishment?-A. No, I think shooting is more severe.
On page 17, referring to hosing, this commission says that , it should be ranked with the rack and the thumb-screw, cruel and inhuman. But on page 24 this same commission, in its desire to exonerate the deputy, says:
No act of his was revealed that indicated he was either cruel or inhuman.
And yet the deputy is on record as using the hose five times. Hosing is part of the punishment which is allowed under the regulations, and it would not be right or fair for me to blame the deputy for those regulations. Ex-Warden Platt tried it once and never used it again. Apparently he did not like it. The point I am endeavouring to make is this. The commissioners say that hosing, as a means of punishment, is cruel and inhuman and ranks with the thumb-screw and the rack; yet on the next page these same commissioners endeavour to exonerate the deputy from any act of cruelty or inhumanity, although he had actually used the hose in five cases.
Let me refer again to tubbing. The report on page 12 says:
There was evidence to show that insane patients had been punished by tubbing. An attempt was made to explain away the tubbing as a necessity where the victim were in a filthy condition and refused to bathe. It was made abundantly clear to your commission that the tubbing at Kingston penitentiary was resorted to neither for sanitary nor therapeutic reasons, but as a punishment.
That was in the commission's report. An attempt was made to explain away this 110J
tubbing on the ground that it was enforced bathing. A short time ago I placed a question on the Order Paper in regard to both hosing and tubbing. The answer to my question will be found on page 548 of Hansard of March 4 this year. I asked by whose order or direction' the act of tubbing insane convicts was carried out. I did not get any answer to that question, but there was what purported to be an answer. It said that bathing was enforced in cases where the convict refused to take a bath. That is not what I asked at all, but that is the answer I got. I further asked:
Are there any guards or other officials at Portsmouth penitentiary who have assisted in or ordered the tubbing of insane convicts?
To that question I was given what seemed to me a rather remarkable answer-an answer sent, no doubt, from Kingston penitentiary at the request of the minister. The answer was:
The warden is unable to find any one on the staff of the penitentiary who has any knowledge of tubbing having been used except as before described.
That is an enforced bath. It goes on:
The following are the statutory declarations of officers who are still on the staff of the prison and who have been, from time to time, in charge of the insane ward:
Then follow four or five affidavits, and let me point this out in regard to the affidavits which were given in connection with the answeT to my question. Guard Madden was in charge from the 31st of December, 1907, to 31st of August, 1911. Then we have McConville in charge from July 3, 1911, to September 13, 1911. So the affidavits of these two men conflict, because both Madden and McConville swear they were in charge during the months of July and August, 1911. If you look carefully at the affidavits you will also find that apparently there was no one in ehaTge from May 25, 1913, to July 1, 1913. That time is not covered at all. And further. Apparently there was no one in charge from September 8, 1913, to November 11, 1913. I should also like to call attention to this fact. The warden says that he was unable to find any one on the staff who knew of tubbing as a punishment. In regard to that I would respectfully draw the attention of the warden to Bryant's evidence to be found on page 789. Bryant says he helped to tub. But Madden, who furnishes an affidavit, here says that no such thing took place. Bryant says in his evidence under oath that both Madden and McQuade were

present when this tubbing took place. I also want to refer to Babcock's evidence on page 796, McWatters' evidence on page 804, and Matthews' evidence on page 816, and if the .sworn testimony of all these is not sufficient, we might look at the sworn evidence of Dr. Phelan, who said under oath that he had heard rumours that tubbing was taking place in the institution, and had put up a notice that it be discontinued. What does Bryant say in his evidence on page 789:
Q. Who would give that order? A. By the authorities.
Q. Who would that he? A. Either the warden, the deputy warden or the doctor.
Q. Give the names of some of them who were there? A. Mr. Madden was keeper.
Q. Would he be present? A. Yes.
Q. Anybody else? A. Mr. McQuade would be present.
Take the evidence of Babcock on page 796:	,
Q. Ever see a prisoner put in the tub to give him a cold bath? A. Yes.
Q. Where was that? A. Asylum.
Q. By whose orders? O. Mr. McWatters.
Q. What office did he hold? A. Acting keeper, I think, at the time.
Q. Why was the tubbing done? A, He insulted another officer.
Q. The prisoner had insulted an officer. A. Yes.
Q. Then the tubbing was done for punishment. A. It was.
Q. Who besides yourself were present when the tubbing was done? A. Just the three of us: McWatters, Matthews and myself.
Take McWatters' evidence at page 804. He says:
Do you remember Matthews being with you and Babcock in the asylum on duty together seven years ago?-A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember a convict having insulted Matthews and being subjected to the cold tub as punishment for the insult?-A. Yes, I do.
Q. You would not have subjected him to that kind of treament if it was only for the purpose of making him clean?-A. I would not.
Take Matthews' evidence at page 816:
Q. Were you present when he was put in the tub?-A. Yes, sir, I was present.
Q. Why was he put in the tub?-A. Misbehaviour, of course.
Q. What was it?-A. Well, the misbehaviour was this: he threatened to strike me.
Q. He did not need a bath because of his dirty condition?-A. No.
Q. It was.because of what he said to you that he was given a bath?-A. Yes.


Charles Joseph Doherty: Would the hon. gentleman mind mentioning the time that happened?


William Cameron Edwards: Counting back from the date when this evidence was taken, I think

he said it was seven years ago. I dare say that the minister has thought that I have been very much misinformed in regard to certain facts, but I think I have had better information than the minister has had. For instance, in answer to my question the other day, it was stated that:
The hose has not been used since May 11, 1913.
If you look at page 823 of the evidence given by Charles Grey, you will see that Grey says that the hose was used in his presence in July, 1913. That shows very conclusively that information supplied to the minister in regard to this matter was not reliable. I also want to call your attention to the fact, in regard to hosing and tubbing of insane convicts, that Dr. Etherington, at the time the commission was holding their investigation, declared that there were two insane convicts confined in the prison isolation. These prisoners should not have been there. There is a ward for them. The evidence also gives us verji clearly the fact that a convict was sent from Dorchester to Kingston because Kingston is the only penitentiary where they have, or are'supposed to have, facilities for taking [DOT] care of insane convicts. This man was sent from Dorchester and committed as insane? He was not committed to the insane department of the institution as he should have been, but ' to the prison. These conditions, I think, . call for some redress and some action on the part of the department.
I further charged that the deputy had shown favoritism in assigning guards to the various posts. I gave reasons why I made that charge a short time ago. The commission in their report referred to the evidence of one or two witnesses, as far as favoritism was concerned, and referred to that evidence as if it were all the evidence along that line. Allow me to call attention to the evidence of guards McQuade, Montgomery, Smith, Aikens, Bannister, Bryant, Caughey, Davis, Johnston, Ingledew, Patterson and Inspector Hughes, all of whom swore that the deputy showed favoritism. Consider their evidence, and let the minister, or any other person, judge for himself as to whether the evidence does indicate, consciously or unconsciously, that the deputy did show favoritism, which was not in the best interests of discipline. I charged him with neglect of duty and lack of judgment. Take the case of convict Chartrand. Let us see what Dr. Platt said in regard to that on April 12, 1912. He was warden then. He said:
v\

A convict designated as dangerous andv marked for special care escaped under circumstances which force one to the conclusion that wrell known, important and imperative duties were either neglected or performed in a culpably perfunctory manner.
The minister reflects on " the insufficiency of right surveillance provided " and concurs in the censure of warden and deputy. Where did the deputy show lack of judgment? McConville was in charge during the day time and a man named Smith was the night watchman. This prisoner was marked as one requiring special care. Who was McConville? McConville was a man who formerly had been suspended for being asleep and drunk on duty. The convict who cut the bars in the corridor which enabled Chartrand to get out said before he died that the time he cut these bars McConville was asleep in the corridor. The result was that the escape took place. It was only a partial escape as the convict did not get altogether outside. Smith was the night watchman. Who was Smith? Smith was a comparatively new man who had been reprimanded fourteen times for neglect of duty during a few months, or probably a year and a half, before that. Am I right in saying that the deputy, whose business it is to assign the various guards to their positions, showed a lack of judgment in placing in charge of that particular ward, where there was a convict that he had instructions particularly to watch, a man who had been suspended for being drunk and asleep on duty and another man who had been reprimanded fourteen times for neglect of duty.
I say that in my judgment O'Leary is absolutely tactless. He shows lack of tact in placing boys on the stone pile. He shows lack of tact in permitting men like Travers to have certain privileges which are not allowed to other convicts. A convict comes to the institution-a boy it may be 14 years of age. The deputy warden assigns that boy to his work. Surely, Mr. Chairman, if there is any convict who should receive special consideration it is the young lad of 14, 15 or 16 years of age who, unfortunately, comes into the institution. It is claimed that there is not enough work for all classes. That is very true and it is not to the credit of this Government, nor was it to the credit of the last Government, that nothing was done along the line of recommendations made by the Inspectors Douglas Stewart and G. W. Dawson that more productive labour should be furnished for the prisoners. But, Sir, surely a man of proper judgment, when a young lad like
that would come into the institution, would place him in the tailor shop, or the shoe shop, or where they are making the brooms, or at some work where he would learn something. The last place they ought to put him at is the stone pile.
Surely every person.will agree to that. I say, Sir, that if there, was only one thing connected with the institution which shows the absolute inefficiency and inability of O'Leary for the position he holds, it is the fact that he repeatedly has placed small boys on the stone-pile, which in my humble opinion, furnishes evidence that he is entirely unfit for his position.
I want to call attention to one or two other things that this man O'Leary has done. The prison records show that two convicts named, I think, Taucob and Quinn, were caught by Guard Walsh committing an unmentionable and abominable offence. Now, Mr. Chairman, a crime committed inside the walls of a penitentiary is supposed to be punished as it would be punished if it were committed outside the walls of the penitentiary. The guard did his duty in reporting that crime and giving certain details of it in writing to the acting warden, who, at that time, was Deputy Warden O'Leary, and Deputy Warden O'Leary- you will find this also on record-notwithstanding the denial of these convicts, believed they were guilty of the offence with which they were charged. Although I am not a lawyer, I believe I am right in saying that when a crime is committed inside a penitentiary the person committing that crime is to be taken before a judge and tried. Why was that not done in this case? It was not done, and why? These men, had they been brought before a judge, would undoubtedly have received a sentence of a number of years for the offence they committed, and which was charged against them by the guard, and which the deputy warden said he believed they were guilty of, and yet this deputy warden took it upon himself to act as judge and jury, and he sentenced these two men to a year in the prison of isolation. Is that the proper kind of a man to be practically in charge of that institution? Carlyle says:
Show me the man you honour; I know by that symptom better than any other what kind of man you are yourself, for you show me what your ideal of manhood is, what kind of a man you long to be.
I say, Sir, speaking my own opinion, that Dan O'Leary is not the kind of man I

would honour with that position or any other. The evidence is beyond dispute.
That O'Leary showed a callous indifference even to the risking of human life.
That he repeatedly took part in punishments which the Royal Commission rank with the rack and the thumb-screw, as cruel and inhuman.
That he was either aware of and endorsed the tubbing of insane convicts, or showed his utter incompetence by not knowing of that horribly cruel and utterly indefensible torture being perpetrated under his very eye.
He can get on either one of these horns which to him has the blunter point, but he cannot get rid of both. He says he did not know anything about the tubbing of insane convicts. I say that if he did not know he ought to know or he is not fit for the position he holds, and if he did know he is not fit for the position either.
I charge that consciously or unconsciously he exhibited a favoritism to his co-religionists, which was detrimental to the discipline of the institution, and which was responsible for much of the lack of harmony.
I say that he repeatedly neglected his duty. I say that he allowed special privileges to some and was cruelly exacting with others, and I say that he has shown complete unfitness by his general lack of judgment, in assigning convicts to their work, to wit, putting boys on the stone-pile.
That is my indictment against Deputy Warden O'Leary. I do not care who is appointed Deputy Warden of Kingston penitentiary, but I do say this: that when the warden of that institution is a Protestant, and the warden of that institution always has been a Protestant, I do believe and have so stated that I think the 'deputy warden should undoubtedly be a Roman Catholic, whoever he may be who is appointed there. But, I think he should be a very different man from what Deputy Warden O'Leary has shown himself to be by his conduct in the past. There is only a minute or two Before six o'clock, and I would like to submit a question or two to the minister which he can take up during recess.
At six o'clock the House resumed and then took recess.
The House resumed at eight o'clock.



PRIVATE BILLS.


[Stage Direction]
Bill No. 108, respecting The Moncton and Northumberland Strait Railway Company. -Mr. Webster.
Bill No. 96, respecting The Premier Trust Company.-Mr. Fripp.
Bill No. 97, respecting The Northwest Life Assurance Company.-Mr. McCraney.
Bill No. 84, for the relief of Arthur Ernest Birdsell.-Mr. Michael Clark.
Bill No. 89, for the relief of Thomas Jefferson Moore-Mr. W. M. Martin.
Bill No. 92, for the relief of Alice Beckett. -Mr. Michael Clark.
Bill No. 98, for the relief of Austin McPhail Bothwell.-Mr. Fripp.
Bill No. 99, for the relief of Agnes Gra-velle.-Mr. Fripp.
Bill No. 100, for the relief of Clara Mackenzie Darnell.-Mr. McCraney.
Bill No. 101, for the relief of Thomas Batin Harries.-Mr. Schaffner.
Bill No. 102, for the relief of William John Owen Delaney.-Mr. Porter.
Bill No. 103, for the relief of Edith May Webster Boydell.-Mr. Michael Clark.
Bill No. 104, for the relief of William Robert Delaney-Mr. Michael Clark.

[Stage Direction]
The House in Committee of Supply, Mr. Sevigny in the Chair.
Penitentiaries-Kingston, $979,700.
["I have said that, so far as incidentally to this punishment you can do reformatory work, my heart is entirely with the hon. member for St. Lawrence. We must all bear in mind, however, not to lose our balance. It may be creditable to our hearts when we lose our balance; but it is incumbent upon some one to keep his head in this regard, and the man who has charge of the administration of justice has to remember that justice requires punishment for violation of law, and punishment such as will operate to deter those who witness it from following the example of the offender. I do not undertake to forget that; I would be forgetting my duty if I did; but\nso far as is consistent with that, anything that can be done to help reform the prisoner should be done; and, whether consistent or not with that, we must, of course, be humane. Punishment does not exclude reform. So far as anything is done that ought to be done as punishment, we ought to be assured that our punishment shall be humane; and so far as it is possible to make it serve as a reformatory influence, I shall be glad to co-operate with all those who will co-operate with me, and glad to do my best alone. If I do not get the co-operation which, after what I have heard this evening, I think I have a right to count upon.\nProgress reported.\nOn motion of Mr. Rogers, the House adjourned at 12.05 a.m., Wednesday.\n'"]
William Cameron Edwards: Before recess I had stated why, in my opinion, the present deputy warden of Kingston penitentiary was not a fit and proper person to occupy that position. It is incumbent upon me to make a few references to Dr. Phelan, the surgeon of that institution, against whom I preferred certain charges, which charges were also dealt with b'fore the Royal Commission. I charged Dr. Phelan with having used violent and indecent language. I shall not quote his language, but I refer any person who wishes to read his words to page 389 of the evidence. For evidence in support of that charge, reference may be made to pages 419, 420 and 421, evidence given by guard Redden. In considering the charge of using indecent language, the following questions were put and the following answers given:
Q. What did he (Phelan) say about the conversation that took place between Aikens and himself at the gate?-A. He said I could say I had not heard it, and I told him I could not say that, that I had heard some of it.

Q. Dr. Phelan suggested to you that you should say that you had not heard the conversation?-A. I told him I could not say that because I had consulted him.
Q. You knew there was to be an investiga,-tion?-A. Yes.
Q. Did the doctor say there was to be an investigation?-A. He said he understood there were charges made against him.
Q. And what did he ask you to do about it? -A. He did not want me to do anything about it.
Q. As far as that case particularly, he wanted you to say you had not heard it?-A. *He said I could say I had not heard it, but I told him X could not say that.
Q. You did not assent to that?-A. No, sir, no.
That was not disputed by Dr. Phelan, who was represented by probably the ablest lawyer in Kingston, Mr. John L. Whiting. I recognize Mr. Nickle's ability, but I guess I shall have to hold to my original opinion. Mr. Whiting is the ablest lawyer in Kingston, and Mr. Nickle is an exceedingly close second. The evidence very clearly indicates that Dr. Phelan was endeavouring to induce Reddin to go on the witness stand and, so far as the matter which was being investigated was concerned he was trying to induce Reddin to withhold his evidence-trying to induce Reddin to perjure himself.
Another charge which I made against Dr. Phelan was in regard to graft. He said he took fees for examining guarus to which he was not entitled. Dr. Phelan as physician has certain duties. Among those duties is the examination of any guard appointed, and he is paid a regular salary for doing that. He is not supposed to get any money out of the guard for performing that service. The commissioners in their report at page 25 say:
Dr. Phelan admits that in four cases he asked for and received a small fee from an applicant for a guard's position as to his physical fitness, and this is a contravention of the statute, as he is not to practise his profession. He says he has not done so for several years. The amount wrongfully taken by him was $4.
The commission have not dealt candidly with that matter. Four cases were proven, they were satisfied that the charge had been proven ana requested us not to take up any further time by bringing forward other cases. He does not say and we have no right to conclude that because we had proved he had taken and he admitted having taken $4 from tour different candidates that it had stopped with that; indeed, guard Reddin, at page 441 of the evidence, says that Dr. Phelan asked him for a fee when he came. He did not pay the fee, but Dr. Phelan told him that he most generally
got a dollar for examination. Now, that may strike some of you as a very small affair, a matter of $3 or $4. The amount was small, but if Dr. Phelan would take money in that way from guards to which he was not entitled, contrary to the statute, he is at least open to the suspicion that he might take much larger fees for doing other things that he should not do. For instance, a suspicion has gone abroad that men of wealth who have become convicts in prison have prevailed upon the prison surgeon to report their health as breaking down under confinement. It has been stated that wealthy men or men who had wealthy relatives have paid prison surgeons, I do not say Dr. Phelan, for reporting them as breaking down under confinement and in that way have induced the surgeons to make representations to the Government that these persons should be liberated because their health was failing and if they were kept in confinement they would die prematurely. In that way they have been released before the termination of their sentences. Take the case of a man named McRea confined in Kingston penitentiary,, sentenced for life for manslaughter. He served only nine months of his sentence. He was released because, in the first place, the surgeon of the penitentiary, Dr. Phelan, reported that his health was entirely breaking down. Another doctor was called in from Montreal to corroborate that and the man, after serving nine months of a life sentence, was set free and is at liberty to-day.
I want to refer to another thing:	Dr.
Phelan's manifest neglect of duty. Rule 52 of the regulations states:
Upon the arrival of a convict the surgeon shall examine him to ascertain whether he is affected by any putrid, infectious or cutaneous disease whether he labours under mental or boclily defects, and whether he has been vaccinated. He shall report the facts to the warden.
Did Dr. Phelan carry out that rule? He made no attempt whatever to carry out that rule. Man after man was brought before the commission who swore that he had not been examined, until the commission said: " It is no use taking any further evidence on that point." They were convinced that the rule had not been lived up to. Then, take rule 53:
The doctor shall give special attention to the hygiene and cleanliness of the prison and prisoners, ventilation of the dormitories, workshops and other buildings, and to the water supply and drainage.	,	!

No person, after reading even a small portion of the evidence, would say for a moment that Dr. Phelan attempted to live up to that rule. That was the second rule which he openly disregarded. Why, Sir, in regard to the water supply, sixty or seventy men would be working on the stone pile; the drinking water for those men would be in the one pail and only one cup would be provided for them to drink from; and it was clearly brought out in evidence that there were men among that sixty or seventy who had loathsome diseases. One of them had syphiletic sores in the mouth, and still he was drinking from the same cup that was provided for the sixty or seventy others on the stone pile. Yet we have Dr. Phelan in his report saying that so far as the hygiene and cleanliness of the prison was concerned it was all that could be desired. He made reports like that year after year.
Did he attend to his work properly? Look at the asylum. Forty insane patients in the day-time were herded together in one common room-the violently insane and those not so violent all herded together. In this building they had night buckets for the excreta and the stench in that building was simply horrible. If you want further confirmation of the last statement take what Dr. Young says. Dr. Young, assistant superintendent of the Rockwood asylum, at page 10 of the report, testified:
* The physical condition of the patients (in the insane ward) shows the effect of improper diet, insufficient exercice and fresh air.
Each patient is locked in his cell without proper sanitary conveniences from 4 p.mf. to 7 a.m. The door of each cell is simply a grating and there is no provision for the isolation and care of noisy and filthy patients. There is no provision for the proper classification of patients, all of whom are gathered together in a large day-room, the acute with the chronic, the old and helpless with the impulsive and violent, the lucid with the demented.
That is what Dr. Young says. What does Dr. Platt say? In his report of 1908 I find these words:
The medical superintendent-
That is Dr. Phelan-
-who is prison surgeon, makes a huried call once a day, Sundays excepted. This constituting the whole care and treatment of the criminal insane.
Let me read an extract from the commissioners' report, page 11:
Many an unfortunate must have been deprived of a fair chance of recovery by reason of the State's unpardonable neglect. Further we find that the insane inmates have not received the attention which their state demanded 
and in some instances they have been subjected to unjustifiable punishment.
On page 12 the commissioners place the responsibility for this primarily on the surgeon and the inspector, the surgeon's annual reports giving the impression that the state of the insane left nothing to be desired, and the inspector accepting from year to year the existing conditions without adverse comment. I believe that Inspector Douglas Stewart said that it would not have made any difference if he had made adverse comment, as no attention would have been paid to him anyway. To show that what I have quoted in regard to this matter is absolutely right, let us take an extract from Dr. Phelan's report to the Government. He says on page 31:
The sanitary condition of the prison for the year has been up to the usual standard of efficiency.
It is a mighty low standard.
Every effort has been made to leave nothing undone which should be done to carry out the principles on which these important measures are established. The various workshops, dormitories and other departments are carefully attended to as regards ventilation, heating and cleanliness.
And this with 70 convicts drinking out of the same cup, from the same pail, and some of them with loathsome diseases 1 And yet he says the convicts are carefully attended to as regards cleanliness.
The water used for drinking purposes was examined during the year, and found free from organic particles which would cause disease.
I wondered if he examined the water in the pail I spoke of a moment ago. He says:
As usual, the hospital has been kept in a good condition, and always ready for the reception of the sick, who receive every attention, day and night, the directions being carried out most carefully.
Let us see if that is true. On page 17 of their report the commissioners say that there is no effective ventilation in the hospital, no sanitary appliances except an obsolete bucket for excreta, and that the only equipment for operating purposes is an old wooden table, that old books covered with dust lie on the floor, and that the place is generally dirty. The commissioners say:
Under no conditions are the patients permitted to have exercise in the fresh air nor indeed to leave their cells for any purpose.
Yet the surgeon's report says that everything is lovely, things could not be better, the hospital is kept in good condition, with everything always ready for the reception of

the sick, when the operation is performed on an old wooden table, when dusty books litter the floor, when there is any amount of dirt in the corners! Yet the hospital is in splendid condition and always ready for the reception of the sick. That is what the surgeon says. In that institution for the sick open wounds of . convicts have been dressed by convict orderlies who knew absolutely nothing about dressing wounds, who simply pulled out the dirty and rotten batting that was used, and tore off the dressings with their hands and put other dressings on without any antiseptic precautions whatever, being taken. That is the condition. Convicts suffering, lying awake in pain at night, and, as the evidence clearly shows, no person going to their assistance. The hospital overseer, H. W. Wilson, who was appointed by this Government, has refused time and again to get out of his bed to attend to the wants of sick convicts. It was amply proved before the commission that he refused to get out of his bed, although he had been provided with a room in the hospital so that he might be within call in case of emergency.
I think there have been some changes made in that institution since the commission held their investigation, and if I had anything to do with bringing about that investigation-I think possibly I had, at all events I am credited with having had something to do with it-I am very glad that we have succeeded at all events in stopping the tubbing of insane convicts. If I have done nothing else, I have cause to be gratified.
Let me now summarize in regard to Dr. Phelan. Did he use violent and indecent language. He admits that he did. That charge is proved. Is a man who would use violent and indecent language in speaking to one of the guards the proper kind of person to be surgeon of that institution? Did he try to induce a guard to perjure himself? Look at Redden's evidence on page 420 and you will see that clearly proved. Did he graft by taking money that did not belong to him, whether it was $4 or only 4 cents? He admits that he did. Did he persistently day by day and month by month disregard rules 52 and 53? The commissioners say that he did disregard these rules. Did he give only a small part of his time to the inspection, diagnosis and treatment of sick convicts? The warden of the penitentiary says that he did. Is it true that many an unfortunate insane convict was deprived of a fair chance of recovery because of Dr. Phelan's unpardonable neglect? The commissioners, on page 11 of their report, say that many an unfortunate convict was deprived of a fair chance of recovery. That every opportunity was given for the spread of loathsome diseases because of his disregard of rules 52 and 53 is amply shown. He paid no attention to hygiene and cleanliness, and his annual report from which I have quoted is, to say the least, most misleading. Yet Dr. Phelan is still on the job.
I have tried to give the reasons why, in my judgment, he is not a fit and proper person for the position he holds. We have heard a good deal in this House this session about the dismissal of officials. Hon. gentlemen opposite have said that officials have been dismissed by this Government for very slight cause, and in some cases without any justification whatever. Be that as it may, I will go this far and say that I think scores of officials have lost their positions without there being against them one-hundredth part of the evidence which I have adduced here why this man should lose his position.
Another man to whom I have called attention is the hospital overseer, H. W. Wilson, who was appointed by this Government. It has been shown in the evidence-you will see it corroborated on pages 570, 571, 592 and 593 of the evidence-that he repeatedly refused to get up at night to attend to convicts who were sick and required his attention, and in some cases were even dying. The commission makes use of these very peculiar words (page 24) in regard to this matter :
Your commission are of the opinion that these patients-
That is, the ones I have spoken of as being neglected.
Your commission are of the opinion that these patients were practically beyond human aid and that in their cases no hardship was inflicted toy Wilson's failure to get up to see them; yet, we feel that the physician, or his representative, should be present on such occasions and that there should be a regulation to this effect.
Is that not a very peculiar statement for this Commission to make? In the first place they start out to justify Wilson for not getting up on the ground that these men were practically beyond aid and if he had got up to give assistance to these dying men they would have died anyway. There fore, to carry the matter to its logical conclusion, afe they were going to die anyway.

salary. If any -one desires to ascertain whether these men were over age at the time of their appointment, it is a very easy matter to simply take the report of the inspectors, and taking that report I find that, notwithstanding this rule 3, and notwithstanding that these three men were removed from their positions because they had under-stated their age, there are in the several penitentiaries of the Dominion no fewer than 71 guards who were over age at the time tney were appointed.


Charles Joseph Doherty: Would the hon. gentleman be good enough to tell us when these were appointed, and whether it was before or after the regulation was made?


William Cameron Edwards: When was the regulation made ?


Charles Joseph Doherty: In 1899.


William Cameron Edwards: We will follow that up and see what develops. Some of these 71 guards were appointed previous to 1899, but there were a great many of them appointed subsequent to 1899, and some of them were appointed subsequent
9 p.m. to 1911, namely, in 1912 and 1913; I cannot speak as to 1914, because we have not the report for that year. Let me, for instance, call attention to one here who was born in 1871 and appointed on lanuary 1, 1911, being forty years of age.


Charles Joseph Doherty: To what position was he appointed ?


William Cameron Edwards: He was appointed as night fireman.


Charles Joseph Doherty: That regulation only
applies to police officers.


William Cameron Edwards: Very well, we will take police officers. I can understand that possibly the regulation would not apply to stokers and firemen, and I do not want to be unfair in the matter at all. We will take the case of J. Latour, St. Vincent de Paul penitentiary, who was born in 1869, and appointed February 1, 1912, at the age of forty-three.


Charles Joseph Doherty: What is his position ?


William Cameron Edwards: Industrial guard.


Charles Joseph Doherty: He is a farm inspector and not a police officer.


William Cameron Edwards: I do not so understand it, and that is not the case in Kingston penitentiary, as to which I am absolutely certain. These industrial guards are supposed to exercise the supervision of police officers in case they are required to do so.

But we will take another man, F. X. Bas'tien, who was born in 1876 and appointed October 14, 1912, at the age of thirty-seven, and designated as a guard.


Charles Joseph Doherty: Was he appointed a guard ?


William Cameron Edwards: Yes, that is what the report says.


Charles Joseph Doherty: The inspector informs me he was appointed as a messenger.


William Cameron Edwards: Of course, if the inspector says one thing now and puts another thing in his report, I am not responsible for that. I think I am justified in referring to what I see in this report, and taking it as correct. If the inspector who I am told got up this book, and put in this information, says in this book that he was appointed as a guard, and now says he was appointed as a mesr senger, why, all right. Let us take a chief watchman. Would he have any duties as a police officer ? If he had, I would go to the next page of the report and find Mr. Lawrence. He is put under the head of police, so I presume he is a police .officer, unless there has been a change. He is fifty years of age.


Charles Joseph Doherty: When was he appointed?


William Cameron Edwards: In 1899.


Charles Joseph Doherty: When did he retire?


William Cameron Edwards: I do not know whether he has retired or not.


Charles Joseph Doherty: He retired last year.


William Cameron Edwards: Not before this report
came out?	.
Mr. DOHERTYY No.


William Cameron Edwards: I have no later report. I can take only the evidence that I have in my possession. It is not my fault that the report for the year ended March 31, 1914, is not before the House.
Here is another one, A. L. Bellodeau, who also comes under the head of police. He was appointed in 1901 when his age was 41. What became of him? Was he a messenger?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I do not know what the minister who appointed those men had to do with the matter, but the report shows that they must have told the truth about their ages, because it appears on the pages of the report. If a predecessor of mine chose for some reason or other to waive the regulation, I am not responsible.


William Cameron Edwards: I do not wish to hold
the minister responsible for what his predecessors in office did. .1 am not a lawyer and I am not accustomed to arguing along legal lines; but if I understand the objection raised by the minister to my argument, it is that if a man gives his age correctly and is appointed, even although he is ten or twelve years over the prescribed age, that is all right; he should not lose his position because he does not lie about it.
. What is the object of putting the age limit of 35 years in the regulation? I presume it is because it was thought advisable not to take on men older than that.
Here is another case of a man appointed in 1907, Mr. Charles Card, as a guard. He was born in 1856. Therefore he was 51 years of age when appointed. Here is the case of Mr. A. Fisher, put down under the head of police. I suppose he is also a guard. He was born in 1871, and was appointed on February 1, 1912. That would make him 41 years of age when appointed.


Charles Joseph Doherty: In 1913, we changed the schedule of salaries. Many people who had been appointed under different designations all came under the designation of guards, although they had not been guards when originally appointed and although they did not act as guards. One of the men mentioned by my hon. friend, when he was appointed, was appointed as a stableman.


William Cameron Edwards: I am glad to get that explanation. The only defect in it is that one column gives the date of the man's birth and the other the date of his first appointment.


Charles Joseph Doherty: He figures now as a guard, but he ranks as a guard only for the purpose of salary.


William Cameron Edwards: According to this report he was fifty years of age when appointed. Do I understand from the minister that his status was changed and his salary raised?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I am told that, prior to the last modification of the schedule, men were appointed under different designations according to the particular kind of work they were to do. Under the last schedule fixing the salaries, those designations were done away with, and the same salary was paid to all those classes of persons under the general name of guards. A man who may have been employed to work in a stable now figures as a guard. A man formerly employed as a messenger now figures as a guard.


William Cameron Edwards: When was that change made?	.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I think it was in the year in which there was a change in the schedule of salaries. That was in 1913.


William Cameron Edwards: The man to whom I refer was first appointed in 1912. Therefore in this report he would not come under that change of schedule. I am not very much concerned about that. There is ample evidence to show that guards were appointed who were over the prescribed age. This report shows that they were over the prescribed age when appointed. If that was the case, I do not see why McGeein, Curtis and Godkin should be singled out. At the time Curtis was dismissed there were 37 older than he was; there were 35 older than Godkin and 23 older than McGeein. Only half of the guards in the institution in Manitoba are under 35; in British Columbia half; in St. Vincent de Paul only 19 out of 60 are under 35, and there are 4 between 65 and 70, and 1 between 70 and 75, although still acting as a guaJd. I presume he must be a Jack Johnson white hope. He must be an exceptionally strong man. In Alberta and Saskatchewan half the guards are under 35 years of age.
I call attention to the fact that a man who was sent to Kingston from Dorchester was hosed, notwithstanding the fact that he had been sent to Kingston as an insane convict. The inspector, as appears on page 1556 of the evidence, said that the surgeon's certificate that the man was physically fit for corporal punishment was all that he required. That may be strictly according to regulation, I have no doubt that Inspector Stewart is perfectly sincere in the belief that hosing is a most efficient and effective form of punishment. I have no quarrel with him on that point; he is entitled to liis opinion, but I most emphatically assert that I am opposed to the use of the hose on convicts, whether sane or insane. I do not believe that turning a water pressure of 60 or 75 pounds upon a man will do him any good. Perhaps I am not qualified to speak definitely in this respect, but that is my opinion. According to the evidence, page 1559, a mere boy who was sent to the institution was punished on December 12, 1911; on January 1, 12, and 13, 1912; on January 1, February 1, 22, and 24, March 15 and 26, 1913. Dr. Young said in his evidence that there was no doubt wliatever that the boy had been insane for years and was in-

sane while he was undergoing that punishment. I do not say that he was hosed, but he -was punished in various ways. He was put in the punishment cells, put on bread and water, put in the prison of isolation, put on half rations, deprived of light in his cell, suspended for 48 hours in his cell. We are all anxious to finish the business of the session, but if we were to stay here for the next six months, this is a matter that we ought to deal with, and deal with seriously, with a view to preventing the recurrence of anything of the kind in the future. Dr. Etherington declared that while the investigation was going on there were two insane convicts in the prison of isolation who should be in the insane ward. Yet the officers who, I claim, are largely responsible for this condition of affairs, still retain their positions.
There are several other matters to which I might refer, but I will not touch upon them at the present moment. It may be asserted that in my discussion of penitentiary matters, although I have been engaged in making adverse criticism, I have offered comparatively few suggestions in the way of reform. I should like hon. gentlemen to remember that I made certain specific charges; it seemed to me that I should justify the position that I took; that I should show why I believed that these men were unfit for the positions which they hold, and why I believe it is not possible to carry out any reform in the institution so long as these men are allowed to retain their positions.
I should like to make one or two suggestions with regard to prison reform. I express it as my opinion that a retrograde step was taken in the matter of prison management when the law was changed in 1875. Previous to that time the management of our prisons was under the control of a board of directors. The law was changed, and since that time they have been under practically the management of one man. I believe that a board of directors for our penal institutions should be provided. In no department, in no branch of the public service, do the officers require to possess such broad vision and sympathy, such firmness of character and temperament, such tactful kindness as is required of officers engaged in the administration of our penitentiaries. It is unreasonable, I say, to expect one person to possess all the mental and moral qualities necessary to enable him to

deal adequately with a diversified criminal population.
I would favour an indeterminate sentence. I believe that eonvicts under 21 years of age should be kept entirely separate from the older convicts, and should not be allowed to associate with them. If it is said that there is not sufficient accommodation to carry out that principle, then I say that the accommodation should be secured, and the sooner the better.
The pardoning and paroling of first offenders should be carried out in a more generous manner than it is at the present time. I am glad to see that the parole system has been advanced in this country; I think it may advantageously be extended still further. I think it is particularly worth while when applied to young convicts who are serving their first sentence.
The time involved in remission of sentences might well be reasonably extended. In California, I understand, the remission granted in each of the first two years, if the convict has conformed with regulations and has behaved himself, is two months. In each of the next two years he is allowed four months, and after that he is allowed a remission of five months in each year during the period of sentence. This remission is worth while. There is great encouragement to the convict in remissions of this kind, and the officers are enabled more efficiently to administer the prison, because the prisoners, working for these remissions, are more amenable to the rules.
Discipline must of course be maintained in any prison, but I doubt if discipline ever yet reformed a matured criminal. As a rude,' severe punishment hardens the convict and makes him more vicious and unruly, while firm kindness and tact softens, overcomes and subdues the evil in him. You may say that that is all theory, but the best test of the worth of the method is to consider whether it would be effective if applied to ourselves. Every one of us here could be led more easily than we could be driven. We would be more amenable to kindness and tact than to severe measures. In California they make food a disciplinary agent. All the food is supposed to be wholesome, but they have their tables graded; at some tables the food is better, more tasty than at other tables, and that is made use of as an inducement to convicts to obey the regulations. They also make the use of tobacco a disciplinary agent. They withhold or grant it

to the convict as his conduct warrants. I would grant tobacco to the convict in the penitentiary. I think a mistake was made when it was withdrawn from him. I believe there has been more trouble in the institution because of the withdrawal of tobacco from convicts than from any other one source.
The writing and receiving of letters might be made use of as a disciplinary agent. A convict is now allowed to communicate with his friends once in two months. That seems to be hard. Surely there is some bond of love between that convict and some one on the outside. What harm could be done by allowing him to communicate with his wife or family? It seems to me it would have a good rather than a bad effect. That privilege might be withheld or extended according as the convict obeys the rules. Lights in cells might be withdrawn as a punishment. Those are some of the means that I think would have a better and more salutory effect than putting a convict in a cell and knocking him about with a stream of water at 60 or 70 lb. pressure to the inch.
Labour is a necessity to the physical, moral and mental well-being of convicts; but if it is to be of any reformative value that labour should be productive. I do not call work on the stone pile, where a man or boy sits down month after month and year after year and pounds a larger stone into smaller particles, labour. That cannot have any good effect on the convict; on the contrary, as he smashes the stone he smashes his whole mental and moral nature, he crushes the life and ambition out of himself. It is a crying shame that, in this day, perhaps one-quarter of the convicts in Kingston penitentiary are engaged in the occupation of simply breaking stone month after month, year after year. Some men say that we cannot have productive labour in prisons because it competes with free labour. Working for the State, a convict does not augment the number of labourers in the country any more than he would if he were working outside. If he was a free man he would be in competition with the men outside. Competition, therefore, is not increased if he is inside the walls of a penitentiary. What kind of labour might be engaged in? One of our prison inspectors, Mr. Douglas Stewart, and his colleague at that time, Inspector Dawson, at one time a member of this House, made suggestions in their report to the Government in regard to prison labour which I am sorry to say
were never carried out. I firmly believe that had the suggestions which those men made at that time been carried into effect our prisons would have been far better today and some of the men who are leaving the prisons worse than when they entered would have left them better than when they entered. What did these inspectors suggest? They suggested that prison labour might be directed first, to some imported articles made in other countries and brought into Canada, second, to commodities which are temporarily or otherwise controlled by monopolies and, third, to some articles required for the use of the public service, mail bags, boots, caps and uniforms for the militia, letter carriers, customs officers and others, clothing for Indians and industrial schools, certain needs for the Northwest Mounted Police, and lighthouse service and rural nfail boxes. It seems to me that these are things that might be manufactured at our penitentiaries. I am not sure, but I would say that quite a number of our mail boxes have in the past been imported from the United States. These might have been made in the prisons. I suggested here a few years ago to the minister, and I repeat the suggestion, that one of the things that the prisoners might be employed in making is concrete tile for culverts and arches for use in road-building throughout the country. In some of the county jails throughout Ontario prisoners are employed in making tile. These are supplied to municipalities at cost. In Kingston, where they have an abundance of limestone and easy access to sand and gravel, where the cement could be shippeJ in, it seems to me that concrete arches and tiles for use in our roads could be made and handed over to the various municipalities at the actual cost of manufacture. I believe that most of the articles I have mentioned -could be made with the facilities they now have in the prison. What is the situation to-day? A prisoner now leaves prison, after putting in his sentence, without a trade, without a cent of money, broken down in health and crushed in spirit; and yet we expect that man to go out to the world and make good. What chance has he to make good and who is to blame that he has not a chance? I say we are to blame.


Mr. BICKERDIKE:: Hear, hear.


William Cameron Edwards: I would not go as far
as my hon. friend from St. Lawrence (Mr. Bickerdike) in regard to hanging; but I do think that there are worse things even than hanging in this country. To take hoid

of a boy, to put him in the penitentiary and deprive him of any chance of ever becoming "a useful citizen, is even worse than putting a rope around his neck and hanging him. Imagine a case coming before a judge. I have in mind now a boy who came before the commission being only then between 15 and 16 years of age. He had been convicted and sentenced to Kingston for four years by a fool of a magistrate in the county of Hastings. Why? What had he done? This poor lad had been working for a farmer, he had stolen a cheap watch and $2.50 in money, and the magistrate sent that boy, between 14 and 15 years of age, down to Kingston for four years! He walked in through the gate, his name was entered, he was given a number and a suit of clothes, his hair was cut and he was shaved and washed. Then he was passed over to deputy warden, who assigned, him his work. That boy was put on the stone pile, and week after week and month after month, sat on the stone pile alongside old recidivists, old, hardened criminals. And we expect that boy at the end of four years to come out a fine type of man and to make a good citizen ! The judge might just as well say to that boy, whose moral perceptions were not hardened, who was not depraved, who was rot criminal by nature, who had made his first mistake: "Here, my boy; you are young, you are green and unsophisticated, you have taken your first step in crime, but there is a lot for you to learn before you become a graduate in criminology; so I am going to send you down to an institution where you will have all the advantages of intimate association with men who have gone through the college of crime and are past graduates in the art of committing crime; you will have an opportunity to rub shoulders with them day by day, and if there is -anything that one of them cannot tell you some of the others will; your mind is plastic and easily moulded, you are susceptible to impressions; go down there to that university of criminology where you will have an opportunity of mixing with old experienced masters in crime; you will be right alongside of them day after day, and they will teach you the various things you have to learn before you can become a graduate in crime." The judge might go on and say: " Down there you will find grades of society just as there are outside; you will find some men of the type of Travers, the man who ruined a great many people in this country by his management of the 
Farmers Bank; he has had the advantage of home training and education; you will find him eating off a plate with a knife and fork and spoon; he gets pudding and other delicacies, probably a box of cigars now and then, and occasionally a little liquor is sent him; but, of course, my boy, you are not in that class; you are only young; you have not got to the point where you can wreck hundreds of people; you have all that to learn, so we will send you where you will have an opportunity of learning it." And what happens? If the boy is sharp and has taken advantage of his association with criminals, at the end>of four years he comes out of that institution a graduate in the art of crime. He knows how to commit the greater offences against society; he has been initiated into the higher degrees of crime. He comes out a graduate of criminology and a satire on our civilization in this country. That is the condition of affairs under our penal institutions as they exist to-day.
I want to enter my protest against existing conditions. .1 say, give these convicts some productive employment. Allow them to make many of the things which we use in various branches of the service, if by so doing you can teach that lad or man a trade and bring back his self-respect. I deplore and protest against the forms of punishment in those institutions, such as the tubbing and hosing of insane convicts, and I dare say the same thing takes place in other institutions. I firmly believe, others to the contrary notwithstanding, that that form of punishment does no good to the institutions, and does irretrievable harm to the convict who is so punished.
I am aware that those who criticise my remarks will say that I have not given a very good certificate to the person from whom I have received most of the information on which my charges are based. That is very true. I have not. They may also say that I have not- given a very good certificate to the commission that held this investigation. Well, I am not at all satisfied with the way that investigation was held. I have drawn certain facts from the evidence adduced before that commission, and from other sources absolutely reliable, and I challenge any man to contradict any statement of fact which I have made tonight. I regret that the commission did not go more fully into these matters and make a more thorough investigation. Certain changes have taken place. I do not believe there has been any tubbing or hosing

lately* and I hope those forms of punishment will never be reintroduced. I hope that before this debate closes, the House and the country will have the benefit of suggestions from men on both sides of the House, many of whom I feel certain are far more capable of presenting this subject to the House than I.


Robert Bickerdike: I am sure we have all listened with a great deal of interest to the expose made by the hon. member for Erontenae (Mr. Edwards.) But I do not think he went far enough in telling the minister just what should be done. He has shown very conclusively that Kingston penitentiary and the other penitentiaries are a disgrace to this country, but he did not go far enough. I do not intend to delay the passing of my hon. friend's Estimates in any way. I do not want to have them reduced either, for I think they are far too small for what I am going to ask him to do. I believe I am within the mark in saying that the management of prisons and prisoners in Canada has, to say the least, been most barbarous. We are certainly committing blunders to-day that in a very short time men will point to as the most extraordinary mistakes any government could have made. Our reforms are most certainly surrounded by the most barbarous methods which the most heathenish nation has ever employed. We continue to shut up in an iron cage our poor erring brother, when we should put him to work at some useful employment in God's sunlight and in God's fresh air. The Royal Commission that the minister appointed has reported that our penitentiaries are in a deplorable condition, and certainly the condition of affairs that exists or did exist is anything but a credit to the Minister of Justice and his Department.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I presume the hon. gentleman has read over the evidence before venturing to make that statement?


Robert Bickerdike: I have read the report that has been laid on the table of the House of the commission appointed by the minister himself. The hon. member for Frontenac says they kept a great deal back, but there is sufficient in that report, I think, to make the people of this country hang their heads in shame. I regret to have to say that Kingston penitentiary has earned for itself a vary unenviable reputation as an institution for the reformation of prisoners, or for the recovery of the poor unfortunate convicts in the insane 111
ward. The minister knows that just as well as I do. I want to say to the minister that we are going about this thing wrongly, and I think he will agree with me. There was a time when the minister did not have in his heart that vengeance that he appears to have had in recent years since he came into politics. I say that the visiting of vengeance upon transgressors should no longer be tolerated in any scheme of civilized government. It is held, on the other hand, by those who have conducted the most exhaustive researches into the relations of individuals with their fellowmen, that the state has a two-fold responsibility imposed upon it; first, its duty toward its citizenship as a whole, and secondly, its duty toward the individual violator of the law. In other words, the purpose of punishment in the broadest sense is, in the first place, to protect all citizens from the menace of criminal acts, and secondly, to place such restrictions upon the transgressor as will result in his reformation and the exemplification, through such measures, of the hazardous and disastrous nature of crime.
Instead of reforming criminals the Canadian system has really been making criminals. What good does it do to hang them or to shut them up in an iron cage? If you want to see what can be done with prisoners I would invite the Minister of Justice to visit the Guelph prison farm, and there see the result of the reforms inaugurated by the Hon. Mr. Hanna, of the Ontario Government.
I think that this is one bright spot in the Dominion of Canada where an attempt has been made for the reform of prisoners. If he will look at what can be done and compare it with what is being done under the mismanagement of our prisons and prisoners, he will agree with me, that to say the least of it, the management is most brutal. It is enough to make Canadians hang their heads in shame. Does it not now become the duty of Canada to raise herself to some standard of reform, both by abolishing the death penalty and instituting reforms amongst our prisoners, or at least amongst the young and less hardened criminals. Society should be more concerned in the reformation of the man than in his punishment.
My hon. friend from Frontenac cited the case of California. I have here quite a number of reports from different states. I will give my hon. friend the Minister of Justice a few facts to show what is being



done in the state of Colorado. The Governor of Colorado, six or seven years ago, found that the penitentiary of that state was conducted on the same principles as those which seem to govern the management of our penitentiaries in Canada. He wanted to institute some reforms there and he did so. He got hold of a bright young Irishman, brought him in from the outside and appointed him warden of the Colorado penitentiary.


Charles Joseph Doherty: That was a good beginning.


Robert Bickerdike: criminals is less feared than penal servitude for life. Innocent individuals are Occasionally executed, which makes the State a murderer of the worst kind. It prevents reparation in case of subsequently proven innocence, is irrevocable, too extreme a measure; with a wrong verdict, and the sentence earried out, the mistake cannot be rectified.
4.	All punishment should be reformatory,
not vindictive. Two or more men, organized under a form of Government, have no more right to take life than one man has. It is murder in either case, and brutalizing in both.	.
5.	There are fewer murders per capita in states and countries which have abolished the death sentence than in those states and countries who still stand for capital punishment, It deprives the criminal of the one due which civilized society owes to its unfortunate children of this class, the chance for spiritual reformation and expiation, to prepare for the hereafter.
6.	It is a relic of barbarism and of the dark and pestilential days of Nero misrule in Rome. Life imprisonment is a severer and juster punishment than the death penalty.


Albert Sévigny: Order. I regret to have to say that the hon. member is not in order. -The item under consideration is a vote for penitentiaries, and the hon. gentleman is now discussing the question of capital punishment, which has been discussed in a previous debate.


Robert Bickerdike: I submit to the
ruling of the Chair, but the hon. member for Frontenac has taken three hours discussing what should be done for the benefit of prisoners.


Albert Sévigny: That may be true, but the hon. member for Frontenac confined himself to a discussion of the penitentiaries, and the hon. member may continue for three hours discussing penitentiaries, and he will still be in order.


Robert Bickerdike: The hon. member
-was allowed to attack me and to attack the abolition of capital punishment, and I surely have the right to reply. It would be unfair to allow the hon. member for Frontenac to attack me and to attack my views and not let me have an answer.


Albert Sévigny: The hon. member for Frontenac d'id not attack the hon. member for Montreal. He said he was not of the opinion of the hon. member for Montreal, but he did not make any attack.


Robert Bickerdike: I submit respectfully to the ruling of the Chair, but I would like to place on record the opinion of an authority on hanging for crime. This is one of the greatest authorities that Canada has ever produced, and no one on this side of the Atlantic has ever had his experience in this matter. This is reprinted from the Maritime Baptist, and it is a conversation with Radcliffe, one of the employees of the Minister of Justice.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I beg pardon; he is an employee of the Provincial Government, which the hon. gentleman supports in Quebec.


Robert Bickerdike: I thought he must have been in the employee of the Minister of Justice.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I sometimes can stop him from hanging, but I never have authorized him hanging any one; that is done on the judgment of the provincial courts.


Robert Bickerdike: I think the Minister of Justice has something to do with hangings. A man said the other night that when the minister turned down his thumbs it meant no mercy.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I do not always turn my thumbs down.


Robert Bickerdike: You do not always turn your thumbs down; thank God foT that. This is the conversation with Radcliffe, the late official hangman of Canada, as published in a Socialist weekly:
It appears that he was the son of an English clergyman, and during his twenty-one years as executioner he was the means of sending one hundred and thirty-souls into eternity. Referring to his first execution, that of Burchell, of Woodstock, Ont., he said the crime for which he was found guilty was so terrible " that I had no compunction about putting him out cjf business in quick manner." Very different was his story of later hangings. " My family deserted me and changed their names, but I kept right on the job because I argued with myself that, if I was doing wrong, then the Government of the country was wrong, and would be punished. I held that I was the Minister of Justice at a hanging, and that if I was a murderer, he was also a murderer.


Charles Joseph Doherty: That used to be under a previous Administration, but not now.


Robert Bickerdike: I am glad there has been some improvement. It' has taken a long time.
And so I pacified by conscioenec in that way for many years, but of late it is killing me. The remorse which comes over me is terrible, and my nerves give out until I have not slept

for days at a time. I suffered agony of mind that was terrible, and began to feel as if iron bars tightened around me. I used to say to condemned persons, as I beckoned with my hand, " Come with me." Now at night when I lay dO'.Vn, I start with a roar as victim after victim come up before me. I can see them on the trap waiting a second before they faced their Maker. They taunt me and haunt me until I am nearly crazy with an unearthly fear. I will go to hell sure, and terrible punishment, for I am two hundred times a murderer, but I won't kill another man. I had always thought capital punishment was right, but not now. I Relieve the Almighty will visit the Christian nations with dire calamity if they don't stop taking the lives of their fellows, no matter how heinous the crime. Murderers should be allowed to live as long as possible and work out their sa'vation on behalf of the State. It is the only solution, for the stamp of Cain is on my brow, and the brow of the Government and the nation, as long as capital punishment is practised on this globe. It is a question whether a good living man could be found who would act as official hangman, and if found, whether he could be saved from demoralization. Is it expedient that one now and again should be ruined in order to the carrying out of capital punishment? Who can say the ruination is confined to one?
I regret very much that you, Mr. Chairman, would not let me go on with my reasons for asking that capital punishment should be abolished. The hon. Minister of Justice a few days ago, when the question came up before, called upon his followers to vote down the Bill which I introduced. In his argument against that measure, he made use of some of the most outrageous and startling statements that I have ever heard made in this House by a responsible minister of the Crown. He referred to the case in British Columbia, which my right hon. leader remembers, where a man was hanged because he happened to be in bad company. The Minister of Justice has suddenly developed remarkable facilities for mindreading. He told us that that man, whom he takes the full responsibility of sending into eternity-and he makes a boast of his action-had a bad heart; that he had murder in his heart. The hon. minister gave a very lengthy excuse for having senf that man to the gallows. He first sends that unfortunate prodigal to his grave; and just as soon as that man has gone where he cannot return to refute any statements, the minister undertakes to read his heart and his mind, and suddenly develops an ability for mind-reading, for which those of us who knew him in earlier days would never have given him credit. He reads that unfortunate man's heart, and tells this House quite seriously that all the man did was to prepare himself so that,
if anybody interfered with him in his robbery of his neighbour, he would be in a position to murder that person. The minister says that he went out with murder in his heart. I did not think the hon. minister had got so far as to be able to read a man's heart and mind. The hon. minister went further than that; he read my heart.


Charles Joseph Doherty: 
Robert Bickerdike: He said that the hon. member for St. Lawrence had no sympathy for the murdered; that his sympathy was all for the murderers. The Minister of Justice knew better than that when he said so. He boasts that he hanged that man to uphold the law; to maintain Canada's dignity by his act. The minister says to God:	Take
him back; I have read his mind; he is not fit to live amongst us righteous Canadians. That is really what the minister said.


Charles Joseph Doherty: Is that a quotation?


Robert Bickerdike: He says, for instance,-


Albert Sévigny: Order. 1 am sorry to say that the hon. member is absolutely out of order, and I will give him an authority better than mine. Bourinot says, in reference to previous debates:
No member in speaking can refer to any thing said or done in a previous debate during the same session.
I hope the hon. member will realize that the item under consideration is $200,000 for the penitentiary at Kingston.


Robert Bickerdike: And prison reform. I shall be pleased, Mr. Chairman, if you will correct me whenever I go out of order, because I am getting up in years and am a little absent-minded at times.
1 would like to point out what the hon. gentleman called self-defence.


Albert Sévigny: The hon. member is
out of order, and he must obey the Chair. If the hon. member is not satisfied with the ruling of the Chair, he can appeal to the House.


Robert Bickerdike: I want to know this, Mr. Chairman: with all due respect to the Chair, you allowed me to be attacked from the other side.


Albert Sévigny: I beg the hon. member's pardon. I want to be courteous to every member in this House; and if the hon.
COMMON -j
gentleman had been attacked by the hon. member for Frontenac (Mr. Edwards), I would have called the hon. member for Frontenac to order right away. I am not here as a partisan; I am here as Chairman.
I want to be courteous to every one in the House, and I think I have been courteous since the beginning of the debate.


Robert Bickerdike: I will submit, of
course. I will not say anything more about what happened before. Perhaps I might say this that I heard a man, very like the hon. Minister of Justice, say some time ago in some place such and such a thing. Would that be in order? I do not say he said so in the House. This gentleman that looks very like the Minister of Justice held that he did certain things because he was in power at the time. He held onwards and finally closed with the old excuse fresh once more from the devil's inexhaustible repertory, saying that he was not willing to re-. voke the death penalty for the rfascn that he had divine sanction for it. Has the hon. minister divine sanction for anything? If he has, I would like him to lay it on the table. I would like to examine it. The signature must be a forgery. Has the Minister of Justice divine sanction for sending men in the future into a cage and making them break stones all their lives? If he has divine sanction for that, I would like to see it. I am very sorry that you, Mr. Chairman, would allow me to be attacked and would not allow me to reply.


William Cameron Edwards: I am very sorry if the hon. member for St. Lawrence (Mr. Bicker-dike) thinks that I made reflections on him personally. If he understood my words in that way, I regret it very much. It was very far from my intention to make any reflection on him, and if I did, I was not aware of it.


Robert Bickerdike: All I said was this, that the hon. member for Frontenac spoke for three hours this afternoon and evening, and that during those three .hours he attacked my ideas and made special mention of the hon. member for St. Lawrence. I was not allowed to reply to him.. I submit, however, to the Chair.


Mr. HUGH CLARK:: 
Robert Bickerdike: Bad liver.


Hugh Clark: It depends almost entirely upon the condition of the trial judge. I believe that a system of parole and indeterminate sentence ought to come more largely into effect. I feel very strongly on this subject, and I hope the minister will take it into his serious consideration.


Mr. NICKLE:: If promise of conciseness will win the indulgence of the House, I shall have their favour while for a few moments I direct your attention to one or two matters that occur to me in reference to the subject under discussion. You will remember that in 1912 I first directed the attention of the House to the conditions as I understood them in the penitentiary at Kingston. Later on the hon. member for Frontenac again drew the attention of the House to these conditions, and, as a result of certain charges made by him, a commission was appointed to investigate, and further powers were given it as to a general investigation of the conditions of the penitentiaries of of Canada. I have listened with considerable attention and great interest to the speech delivered by the hon. member for Frontenac (Mr. Edwards) this eveningj, which showed .his characteristic care and which was delivered with characteristic vigour. If I might summarize his address, it would be divided into three parts. The first was a vigorous complaint against Inspector Hughes as to the character of the evidence adduced by him; the second was a eomplaint against the commission appointed by the Minister of Justice; and the third was a complaint against the penitentiary system as it exists in Canada to-day. As to the first complaint of the hon. member from Frontenac, that Inspector Hughes, then-Accountant Hughes, gave to the hon.

member certain facts and figures that were afterwards not substantiated when the commission meets. I cannot give any opinion, as I did not enjoy the confidence of the then accountant to the same degree as did the hon. member for Frontenac. However. as two members of the commission well known to me come from my riding, it is perhaps not amiss that I should differ from the hon. member for Frontenac in my conclusions as to the work of these gentlemen.
Mr. G. Mi. MacdoneM is a lawyer of some 65 or 70 years of age, a man who has given much of his life to the study of social questions, a man who enjoys the confidence of the whole community in which he lives. Dr. Etherington is a graduate of Queens' university, a fellow student of my own, a man who took a distinguished course in medicine, who walked the hospitals of Europe, came back to Kingston and has since practised successfully his profession in Kingston and district. The hon. member for Frontenac, in his speech of last year, said:
I may say that at the time the names of the commissioners were first mentioned as appointees I saw no reason why they should not perform their duties properly and well.
The hon. member for Frontenac in that expression of opinion therefore admitted that , at the time the members of the commission were appointed, he had no reason to assume that they would discharge their duty in anything but a proper manner. The hon. member for Frontenac has also quoted from the press of the country as to the conditions in the penitentiary and as to the reforms that ,members of the press think should be brought about. The late Principal Grant taught me one thing I have never forgotten. In that terse, epigrammatic way of his he said: "A man must never forget that an editorial in a paper is no greater than the man who holds the pen." I sometimes think that we are apt to attach too much importance to expressions of newspaper opinion. I appreciate the power of the press; I appreciate the tremendous weight it has in the formation of public opinion. But when we read editorial comment, we should give no greater weight to it than we would give to the expression of the individual opinion of the editor, if expressed in spoken rather than in printed words.
However, the hon. member for Frontenac has taken the liberty of quoting to this House expressions of opinion of the
[Mr. Nickle.j
Standard, of Kingston, and, therefore, since he has quoted from that paper believing it is entitled to weight, he surely will not object to my quoting from the same paper as to the character of the commissioners named by the Minister of Justice. On the 28th day of August, subsequent to the formation of the commission, the Standard, of Kingston, said as follows:
The appointment of Dr. Etherington, of this city as the third member of the commission to conduct the penitentiary investigation is an excellent one and will, we feel sure, be generally commended. This appointment completes the commission, the other members being G. M. Macdonell, K.C., chairman-an ideal man for that position-and Mr. Joseph Downey, ex-M.P.P.
The personnel of the commission assures that the investigation will be a real one and will he conducted without fear, favour or bias.
Again, on the 15th day of July, the same paper said:
The Government has made no mistake in appointing G. M. Macdonell, of this city, as chairman of the commission that is to investigate the Portsmouth penitentiary. Mr. Macdonell is a man of ability and of impartial judgment and with him as chairman there is assurance that no injustice will be done to any one and that all will be given a fair hearing.
These quotations are from the Conservative paper of Kingston. I now direct your attention to a quotation from the British Whig, a Liberal organ, dated a few days after August 28. This paper said:
The Whig is under no obligation to defend these men politically, as they owed their choice, primarily, to the fact that they were good Conservatives. But they possessed, apart from their political calling, special qualifications for the work. Mr. Macdonell, the chairman, had for many years given penology a very close study. He was largely interested in the reform of erring humanity. Dr. Etherington was chosen, it is presumed, because of his professional training, and because one very distinct phase of the inquiry was of a man of unbiased mind. Mr. Downey was, in a sense, a specialist in the service to which he was called in this case.
Mr. Downey, as you know, was a member of the commission appointed by Hon. Mr. Hanna to inquire into the American system of penitentiaries and reformatories, and it was through the report of that commission that the Guelph institution came into existence. So much for the personnel of the commission. Perhaps I should say, in passing, that I think possibly it was unfortunate that the powers of the commission included the investigation of the charges of the hon. member for Frontenac and also an inquiry into general penitentiary conditions. At the time the commission was launched the

member for Frontenac readily admits that he was primarily concerned with the investigation of the personal charges against the men of whom he made complaints, and that he suffered annoyance when his chief witness, Accountant Hughes, did not come forward with evidence of the state of facts, as he had hoped he would. The net result was that very soon the commission and the hon. member for Frontenac came to grips, and there were several lively sittings, if one may judge from the report in the daily papers throughout the country.
I had not the privilege, or rather I did not take advantage of my opportunity, of attending the commission, and therefore as to what took place I must speak purely from hearsay; but I am satisfied that if the commission came to tan erroneous conclusion as to the weight to be attached to the evidence given before them, that conclusion was an erroneous conclusion honestly reached. Thera was no such thing as what the hon. member for Frontenac calls " deliberate misrepresentation." In support of the statement that the members of the commission were characterized by deliberate misrepresentation, the hon member for Frontenac draws the attention of the House to the fact that in the commission's report they make reference to certain paging in the evidence, but do not give a reference to those pages. I think if the hon. member for Frontenac had stopped for a moment to consider the matter he would have readily seen that the report of the commission, as submitted to the Minister of Justice, would necessarily be typewritten or written in longhand and the evidence given before the commission *would be in typewritten form. In other words, if the commission in their report had placed the number of the pages in the report it would not be the same number of page if the evidence had been printed. The commission at the time they submitted their report were not in a position to know whether or not the evidence would be printed. They knew the evidence would be offered to the Minister of Tustice, hut they could not know whether or -not that evidence would come in a printed form to the House. They therefore did what any lawyer, what any member of a commission would naturally do:	they left the page
blank but made a reference to tne paging with the intent probably that that paging would be put in by whomsoever had the report printed and submitted for distribution. The hon. member for Frontenac draw's attention to the fact-


William Cameron Edwards: Could they not have referred to the page of the typewritten evidence?


William Folger Nickle: My hon. friend from Frontenac asks me if that could not have been done as well if the page of the typewritten evidence had been put in. It would have been most misleading if the evidence had been printed. The printed pages would have been totally different from the typewritten pages. The documents of the future would have referred to the typewritten reports, and confusion would inevitably have resulted.


William Cameron Edwards: If they had the typewritten documents printed, how would they know to what page the commission referred?


William Folger Nickle: It certainly shows no deliberate intention to deceive on the part of the commission.
The hon. member for Frontenac has drawn the attention of the House to the case of Gliartrand, a convict who escaped. He has said that Chartrand's case showed the intention of the commission to misrepresent, because they did not come to a conclusion in regard to the matter nor adequately report to the Minister of Justice, i should like the members of the House who happen to have in their hands the report of that commission to turn their attention to page 22, charge (e):
Charge (e) :	That the deputy was guilty of
gross neglect of duty resulting in attempts to escape.
The particular case cited was that of Chartrand, a convict, who cut through the bars of his cell and got into the yard of the prison, and the charge is that an inexperienced guard and inefficient guard had been placed in supervision of this convict. This case was fully investigated at the time by the minister, and Guards Smith and McConville were suspended for their conduct in the matter.
And there is much more with which I v ill not weary the House. There was an inquiry before the Minister of Justice covering some 30 pages. The minister gave judgment, and this is the last clause of the inquiry referred to on page 23 of this report :
The minister's judgment reflects on "the insufficiency of the right surveillance provided " and " concurs in the suggestion " that the warden and deputy warden be censured for neglect to profit by the attempted escape from an adjoining cell last year," etc., etc. There is no suggestion of such censure in the inspector's report, it does not appear in the record, so that we are unable to attach to it the correct significance, but considering that this whole matter was fully dealt with and adjudicated on by the minister at the time of this occurrence, it should

not again be made the subject of a charge before this commission. In any case, the whole record is on file and can be referred to, if, in the opinion of the minister, the matter should be reopened.
That makes it amply clear in that one particular case to which the hon. member for Frontenac has directed the attention of the House, the commission placed the matter before the Minister of Justice for consideration because he had the evidence iu his possession. It is not my intention to follow the hon. member for Frontenac through the numerous cases cited
by	him	from	the evidence. I havenot	had	the	pleasure of seeing acopy	of	the	evidence, and those
of us whose duty it has been through life to value evidence know how easily it is to pick out evidence here and there and make a tolerably well-founded argument. I am not going the length of saying that the hon. member for Frontenac is not correct in his conclusions, but I say that he loses sight of a great opportunity for good when in his zeal to secure the dismissal of two men-and the hon. gentleman to-night has made out a strong case for their dismissal -he blinds himself to the importance of this report. That this commission did not intend to cover up or shield anybody is seen from the fact that they reported in regard to the present physician in a way altogether beyond the charges made by the hon. member for Frontenac. Take, for instance, page 12 of their report in regard to the condition of the insane wards. No charge was made by the hon. member for Frontenac as to the condition of the insane patients, but this is what the commission says:
It being generally' agreed that the condition of the Insane is and has been for years altogether unsatisfactory, the question "who are responsible? " demands an answer. The responsibility falls primarily upon two men, the surgeon and the inspector. The former, in his annual reports, should have given expression to views [DOT] such as he presented in his evidence before the commission. This was clearly his duty and would have relieved him of responsibility, but unfortunately a perusal of his reports leaves one with the impression that the state of the insane left nothing to be desired.
Could there be a more drastic criticism of the surgeon than that? Turn to the hospital in regard to which the surgeon was responsible:
The operating room (so-called), where serious cases have been, and must be dealt with as they arise, has an old wooden table but no other equipment. When your commissioners visited this room, many old books lay about the floor and the place was not clean. In all, there was a

condition of affairs which should not have been tolerated. Again, there is to be noted an all hut complete absence of satisfactory records. Inspector Stewart's commendation of the existing conditions can only mean that he is not competent to express an opinion upon this aspect of prison management. Although his annual reports give a different impression, the surgeon in his evidence before the commission stated that many changes were necessary to make the hospital what it should be. . . .
We have no hesitation in reaching the following conclusions:
The hospital, in building, equipment, and sanitation is inadequate and out of date, and the personnel is not adapted to proper hospital administration.
There should be provided a new hospital, modern in plan and equipment, and the hospital staff should be reorganized, the members to consist of:	A visiting surgeon, a resident
physician, two trained male nurses, and convict orderlies.
Could there be a more drastic criticism of the surgeon than that? I cite these instances only to show to the House that it was the intention of the commission to shield nobody. They evidently felt the evidence in regard to specinc charges was not sufficiently strong to warrant conclusions that may have been in accord with the wishes and intent of the hon. member for Frontenac. That was probably the conclusion of the commission. But this shows clearly that the intention of the commission was not to shield but rather to lay bare to the public view the existence of facts as they found them at the Kingston penitentiary.
What were the reommen'dations of the penitentiary commission? I should like these to go on Hansard for the guidance of future members of Parliament:
Recommendations.
Your commissioners beg to make the following recommendations:
Management.
(1)	That the control of the penitentiaries be placed in the hands of a permanent commission of three members, with power to appoint staff officers and heads of departments, make regulations for the government of the institutions and generally direct their management.
(2)	That under such commission the warden of each prison be given full authority to employ and-dismiss'keepers, guards, etc., in addition to the powers he now enjoys.
(3)	That a Parole Board of not less than three members be appointed for each penitentiary. to sit once a month and to hear and consider applications for parole, and make recommendations on the same to the Minister of Justice.
(4)	That the field staff of the parole organization be increased to three officers to be directly under the charge of the Department of Justice and work in conjunction with the local parole boards.

Classification.
(5)	That an arrangement be entered into with the provinces of the Dominion to take over the custody of first offenders and prisoners under twenty-five years of age.
(6)	That should it be found impracticable to carry out recommendation No. 5, two reformatories for young prisoners and first offenders be established-one in the East and the other in the West.
< 7) That within the present penitentiaries a system of classification be inaugurated, based upon the conduct of the prisoners, and operated with a view to encourage them to habits or order, industry, and a better appreciation of the duties of citizenship.
Industrial Employment.
(8)	That what is known as the State-use or Public-use system of prison labour be adopted throughout the penitentiaries and that industries be established to supply the requirements of the Government, its institutions and services, with all goods that can be made in prison.
(9)	That outside labour be developed to the fullest possible extent at each prison, in farming operations and, where raw material can be conveniently obtained, in quarrying stone, making brick, etc.
Treatment of Prisoners.
(10)	That a thorough physical and mental examination be made of each prisoner on his admission, and as far as possible his antecedents and family history be obtained and put on record; and
That a proper filing system be installed at each penitentiary, so that the history, physical and mental condition of the prisoner on admission and his record in prison may be kept in one envelope.
(11)	That the close cropping of prisoners' hair be abolished, except in cases where it is necessary to preserve cleanliness.
(12)	That in place of the present prison uniform a suit and cap of one tone material, blue or grey, be adopted.
(13)	That a few copies of a carefully censored weekly newspaper be provided in each prison for the use of good-conduct prisoners.
(14)	That a moderate issue of tobacco oe made to good conduct prisoners who had contracted the habit before entering prison.
(15)	That as soon as space can be provided a dining-room equipped with proper service be established at each prison for all good conduct prisoners, and that meanwhile the tinware utensils in use be discarded and enamel-ware substituted.
(16)	That hosing of convicts and confining them in a dark cell or dungeon and shackling with ball and chain be abolished.
The Hospital and Insane Ward.
(17)	That a hospital, modern in plan and equipment, he provided.
(IS) That, the hospital staff be reorganized so that it comprise a visiting surgeon, a resident physician, and two trained male nurses.
(19)	That a separate institution for the criminal insane be established or that arrangements be made with the Provincial Governments for taking over this class.
The School.
(20)	That a school of letters be established te ea-h prison, and for three hours at least each
day instruction be given by a head teacher and inmate monitors.
(21)	That drill exeroises be held every Saturday afternoon when the weather is suitable, and on the afternoon of every holiday; and that an occasional entertainment be given.
Disciplinary Officers.
(22)	That in the employment of guards more regard be had to the charaoter and education of the applicant, with a view that the official should exercise the best possible influence over the prisoner.
Indeterminate Sentence.
(23)	That the Criminal Code be so amended as to empower judges to impose a maximum and minimum term of sentence on all persons committed to a penitentiary, the period of detention to be fixed by the Parole Board.
May I ask you if that strikes you as a report of a commission which was unable to correctly size up existing conditions, or the report of a commission that had not the interest of our criminal population at heart? It strikes me entirely the other way; it strikes me as the report of a commission which desired to be thorough, which gave to the subject the best that was in them. If, in their conclusions,- and there are conclusions and recommendations in this report that would not meet with my approval-if I say, in their conclusions, they err let us at least give them the credit of being honest in what they did and in what they said and of being desirous that the best possible results might come from their inquiry. We are all expressing our views in regard to penitentiary administration and I suppose that one man's' opinion is just as much good as that of another. Somebody has said that every man who rides down the hill to the penitentiary in a motor car thinks himself competent to express an opinion as to how that penitentiary should he managed. I have done more than ride down hill in a motor car to the Kingston penitentiary; I have been through that penitentiary time and again and there has never been a time that I have gone through that my heart is not stirred with pity at the scenes I have there witnessed and I have always felt that it is worth while trying to save any man no matter how degraded he may be.
I sincerely 'doubt if we are going about it in the right way under our present penitentiary- .system. I think that my hon. friend from Frontenac is perhaps right in this, that the system is wrong and that before things are going to be better you will have to get a different system. I do not believe you can run a penitentiary system over a long distance telephone. I

do not believe you will get the right sort of man as warden of the penitentiary so long as he is subservient to a central authority. If you are going to better penitentiary conditions in this country you will have to get a big man to take the position of warden, a man who will be master of the job, who will realize the importance of the work and who will realize that if he cannot do things as they should be done the job is not worth having and who. rather than 'do things that he does not believe to be right, will vacate his position and give up the work to some one else. You cannot run a penitentiary system in my judgment by having a central inspecting bureau dictating to and controlling your warden. Under such a system as that you develop a condition of apathy, indifference, and a desire to work along the lines of least resistance rather than ia desire to improve and better the conditions of the penitentiary.
In regard to work, it is the easiest thing in the world to say that work should be provided for convicts. Inspector Stewart, in report after report, has recommended that work be found. It is a difficult thing to find work for convicts in this country. In summer time it is easy enough to buy a few hundred acres of land and, if you have sufficient guards, to put these men out on the land. But you have long winter months and for six or seven months in the year it is impossible to develop along agricultural lines and the men must necessarily do their work inside. What work are they going to do? It certainly is unfair that convict labour should be brought into conflict with free labour. Free labour has the right to get the product of its toil and that product must not be undersold by the product of the penitentiary. If you are not going to bring the labour of the penitentiary into conflict with free labour how are you going to work out the scheme? I am inclined to think that possibly my hon. friend from Frontenac is right in saying that you should allow the penitentiaries to supply the State's needs. It has been done in the state of New York and I believe that the labour interests of the country are big enough and broad enough to realize that just because a man has made one, or possibly two slips, that does not put him outside the universal brotherhood of man or that therefore some arrangement should not be made by which penitentiary labour could be productively employed.
I agree with my hon. friend from
fMr. Niekle.]
Frontenac that the stone pile iniquity should not be tolerated for another hour. To see men and boys, hour after hour and day after day, pounding away on that stone pile is something that cannot fail to arouse sympathy. No sooner is one load of stone carted away than another is brought in. It reminds me of one of the mythological tales, according to which a man had to roll two stones to the top of the hill, and his punishment was complete when both reached the top. When he got one stone the whole way up, for some unaccountable reason the hill shook and the stone rolled to the bottom. There is nothing original about this work, there is nothing productive, there is nothing to stimulate ambition; and after a man has broken stone for a long time he has broken his soul, and his spirit and ambition have left him.
Take the question of the children that are in the penitentiary. My hon. friend from Frontenac has stated that ten per cent of the population of the penitentiary is under 20 years of age. I have seen children in our penitentiaries 16, 17 and even 13 years of age-I am not so sure about 13 years of age-sent there by irresponsible magistrates and judges, and yet I have heard it stated that these children, who could neither read nor write, should not have the privilege of a simple education because, forsooth, we might be educating criminals. I would like to ask the man who advocates that doctrine if it is not better to believe that, instead of educating a criminal, you might be making an honest man? If we are going to have children put in our penitentiaries, let us make some arrangement by which they can get a reasonable education; let us turn them out into the world with the rudiments of an education, so that when they come to fight their own battle of life, they may have the accomplishments of the common school, and not be ignorant of the simpler things of life.
I am glad to say that the insane problem, I believe, has been solved. I understand that arrangements have been made with the provinces by which the insane population of Kingston penitentiary is to be taken charge of by the various provinces temporarily. That is a move in the right direction. It recognizes that insanity is a disease, and that the insane are capable of being treated in such a way as to bring about improvement. It is not nec*sr \ry revert to the soul-harrowing conditions which existed in the insane ward at Kingston. These conditions are gone. My hon. friew itom Frontenac deserves

credit, and it must be a gratification to him to know that at least this amelioration has been brought about in the condition of this unfortunate class of people.
As to suits, cropping the hair, and all those things, I do not know whether they amount to much or not. But some great uoIdler has well said that if, during a campaign, you allow your soldiers to be unshaven and unkempt the army soon Becomes a rabble, and the rabble, a mob. I suppose the philosophy of that remark lies in this, that if you want to make a man self-respecting, you must make him tidy and feel that he is a man. One thing that struck me in the penitentiary was the garb of the convicts. What is the sense of insisting upon such a garb? The whole thing lacks, may I say, tone. It is slovenly in its detail and degrading in its colour. If we must have a distinctive garb, let us have one that will fit the man well. Let it be cut in such a way that he feels that he is still a man, and let the colour not be such as to offend his eye. It seems to be a little thing, but these are the little things that enter into the life of the convict. Let him remember the higher and bigger things in life, and do not insist upon these little things that serve only to degrade his manhood.
I had a request from a boy, who had been an accountant in a bank and who had made his first slip, and who was really heartbroken because he could write home to his mother but once in two months. What possible harm could there be in that boy writing home and benefiting by the home influence? You may say: We must have discipline. That is true, but surely the influence of home is worth something in the development of the youth.
Why all these cast-iron regulations? Discipline there must be, but let there be discretion with the warden, and if there is discretion in the warden, I believe there will be an improvement in the condition of the convicts.
As I said in the beginning, I am not going to criticise the remarks of the hon. member for Frontenae (Mr. Edwards) as to the correctness of his deductions from the evidence. I am not in a position to do so, because I have not had the evidence before me. But I do believe these commissioners were actuated by honest motives. I do believe that much good will come from their work. I think that the hon. member for Frontenae has sown the seeds of big things, and if we can develop some system by which hope will be stimulated in the minds of the men
who pass through our penitentiaries, and by which they will leave these institutions with the idea that better things are in store for them, the hon. member for Fron-tenac will have done a great work.
In Montreal the other day the Solicitor General made the statement that since 1899, 6,540 prisoners had been released from the penitentiaries on parole; that only 192 of these were convicted of crimes within the period of their parole, or 2-9 per cent of the total; that 226 violated their parole and had to be returned to the prisons, or 3J per cent; and that the total number who did not make good was 418, or only about 6 per cent. If 94 per cent of the men who are released on parole make good, why should not more of the men make good who serve out their sentences, provided they have a reasonable chance? I agree with the hon. member for Bruce (Mr. Clark) who said that men should be let loose from the penitentiaries with hardened muscles and with bronzed skin, with the consciousness that they Lave another chance which it is worth while to take advantage of, and with the feeling that during their period of incarceration they have not been oppressed and down-trodden-I was going to say tortured, but I will omit that word.
. If you eliminate from a man the last sign of manhood while he is in a penitentiary, there is little chance that when he is released he will feel it worth while to try and win back in society the place which he lost.


William Cameron Edwards: Like other hon. members in the House, I appreciate the flow of language of my hon. friend (Mr. Nickle) and his ability tb argue on one side of a question on general principles, and on the other side of it on specific instances. The hon. member has once again repeated what he said last session, and he has intimated that in my anxiety to see a couple of officials removed from their offices I lost sight of the greater opportunity. That, of course, was intended to draw to the attention of the House what he considered my narrowness of view, and to give evidence that he was still possessed of that breadth of view which characterized him a year ago. Let me say that I do not care a snap of my finger who is deputy warden, or warden, or surgeon, or an employee of any kind in Kingston penitentiary, or in any other penitentiary. If any of these officials, on my charges, were to be removed from office, I have no persons to nominate

to take their places, and I have no intention of nominating any one. I have given what I consider good reasons why these men are unfit for their positions, and if these reasons do not appeal to the Minister of Justice, very well: he has the say in that matter, not I. If also the hon. membei for Kingston cannot see the evidence as I do, he has, of course, a right to his own view.


William Folger Nickle: I said I knew nothing about it.


William Cameron Edwards: The hon. gentleman says he knows nothing about it, but that is not my fault. He had numerous conferences, some twenty-two or twenty-three, with the chairman of the commission while the investigation was being held, with regard to matters connected with the commission, evidence and otherwise, and I can readily understand his position here to-night with regard to the members of that commission, for I think that probably I. am right in saying that they were recommended by himself. They are at all events constituents of his,and if I cannot agree with him in regard to their handling of this matter, we will simply have to differ. The hon. member rather found fault with me for quoting so extensively from. the newspapers, and he said that it was possible we might attach too much importance to the press. Well, he gave the same quotations as he did a year ago, from the Kingston Standard and the Kingston Whig to justify himself. I also read a quotation from the Standard, and as my quotation from the Standard was of a later date than the one the hon. gentleman quoted, 1 might argue that it indicated that a change of opinion had come over the Standard as well as over myself in regard to the capability of these commissioners.
The hon. gentleman lost sight of my argument re McConville and Smith. My point and my sole point on this was that in appointing as guards men like Smith and McConville, one of whom had been reprimanded fourteen times within a few months far neglect of duty or for performing his duty inefficiently, and the other of whom had been suspended for being drunk, the deputy warden did not show good judgment. That is my view and my argument, and that argument the hon. member lost sight of entirely.
It may be that I have lost sight of a great opportunity, and that my hon. friend has been more happy than I in being able to see a great opportunity for reform. I contended, and I gave reasons for my conten-

tion, that in order to effect reform it was necessary to change some of the officials who, in my judgment, had proven themselves decidedly inefficient. I am sorry if my hon. friend and the minister cannot agree with me in that. It seems to me that I gave facts enough to 'show that these men were corrupting that institution, and 1 might quote from the words which Shakespeare puts in the mouth of Brutus:
The name of Cassius honours this corruption,
And chastisement doth therefore hide his head.
I would like to have the eloquence of my hon. friend to picture the conditions as they are in that institution. I venture to say that had he made the charges and the deductions from the evidence on which I sought my substantiation of these charges, he would have made a case very much stronger than I did, because of fiis exceptional ability not only as a speaker, but as a lawyer. However, he has not chosen to regard that side of the case at all. He contents himself with saying he did not look over the evidence. He says that the matter is one of great importance, wonderful importance. If it is of so great importance, and I do not dispute that it is, it is strange that it is not of sufficient importance for him to have given the evidence his attention. Might the hon. gentleman not have given the evidence some of his very valuable attention, in order that he might have drawn correct conclusions? I may not be able to deduce the facts from the evidence so accurately as he can, but I have at least looked the evidence over carefully and I have used what brains I have in trying to come to a proper conclusion. The hon. gentleman has placed his views before the House and has given us the benefit of his wisdom without having looked over the evidence.
So far as the commission is concerned, I -can repeat, if necessary, what I said this evening. The men on that commission lost a great opportunity; they showed again and again throughout the investigation that they were determined, so far as it lay in their power, to prevent evidence from coming up which would reveal those prison officials in their proper light. I can give dozens of cases to show that they misrepresented the evidence. They misrepresented Greer's evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt. I gave the page of the evidence, and any hon. member can consider for himself whether or not they properly represented

that evidence. For instance, on page 19, the commissioners say that the charges made refer to the present state of management of the penitentiary. That is a misrepresentation. The charges do not represent anything of the kind. The charges are there to speak for themselves. As to whether they went back of the present time is another matter. The commissioners said that the charges referred to the present time, when it was quite clear that some of the charges "went back several years. Some of those charges were shut off, because they went back of the present time.
In regard to the question of testifying falsely, the commissioners say on page 19, that that matter was considered; that it was under investigation before. That matter was never under investigation. That is a misrepresentation on their part again. Here is another one. Montgomery complained, they said, because his post was not changed as often as were those of others. Montgomery said that he resigned his position as guard because of unfair treatment by the deputy. Therefore that is a misrepresentation on their part. When such things as that appear on page after page of the report, am I not justified in saying that the commission deliberately misrepresented the evidence brought before them? If they did not deliberately misrepresent it, then why did they make statements which were at variance with the facts?
I do not know that it is necessary or advisable to argue the matter as to the personnel of the commission. The hon. member for Kingston has one view; I have a view which does not accord with his. He says that the system is wrong. I agree with that view. I say that the best system ever devised qannot be a success in the hands of men who have proved themselves as inefficient as those men have.
It is not fair to me for my hon. friend to represent me as being actuated solely along the line of the charges that I have made. I have made certain charges. If I have not justified myself in making them, I am in the judgment of the House in regard to that. But I repeat now, what I have said before and what I think my hon. friend should at least give me credit for, that my object is and has been to reform and improve conditions in our penitentiaries. The matter of the officials is of very secondary importance. The important matter is the changing of the conditions. I am honest in my belief that those conditions cannot be changed under such men as the
present officials. The main point is to effect those changes. I would be taking a very illogical position if I advocated here change and reform in our present conditions under the management of under-officers who, I fully and honestly believe	have	demonstrated their absolute inefficiency for the positions which they hold.	Whether I have made
myself clear to my hon.' friend the member for Kingston or not, I hope that I have made my position clear to the rest of the House. Last year he thought that I was holding a cent so close to my eye that I could not see the light of the sun. The hon. member for Kingston is not the only man who can see farther than the end of his nose. He is a very clever man, of course, but he must not allocate to himself all the knowledge and a-11 the breadth of vision in this country. I can hardly allow my hon. friend to do that. He has given lessons to members of this House, even to the Prime Minister; and he may feel, because he has done so and has got away with it, that small fish like myself do not count for very much. I may not; but if any imputation is thrown at me, I am going to fight back whether I am successful or not.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I regret very much to
delay the passing of the Estimates; but at the same time I presume it is due, if not to myself-after the description of myself which the hon. member for St. Lawrence gave, I feel that there is not very much due to myself-to the hon. members who spoke and to the importance of the subjects with which they dealt, that I should make some answer and give some expression of my own view's as to the matters that have been dealt with.
There is no possible question about the importance of our making every possible improvement in the method of dealing with out criminals. That is a very good cause, and I want to express my appreciation of everything that each of the members has said in support of that cause. I might perhaps take the liberty of pointing out that strong language does not always help the cause in which it is invoked, and that exaggeration of statement positively hurts any cause in support of which it is invoked. When the hon. member for St. Lawrence (Mr. Bickerdike), for instance, described me as going about with the brand of Cain upon my brow, I do not know that it convinced any one that capital punishment ought to ne abolished.


Robert Bickerdike: I beg the hon minister's pardon. I did not say anything of the kind. I said that was the statement made by one of my hon. friend's own employees, Mr. Radcliffe.


Charles Joseph Doherty: When he quotes my
employee, who by the way was not my employee, I do not think that aids him to convince people that capital punishment ought to be abolished; nor do I think that the numerous strong expressions, which the hon. member for Frontenac (Mr. Edwards) quoted from a number of newspapers as regards the conditions existing in our penal institutions, add very much to the weight of any argument in support of the improvement of those conditions. He must remember that the newspapers must have had their information from what took place in the course of the investigation, or if not from that source, from what was said by other persons to be the result of that investigation. That being true, the fact that one newspaper, or another newspaper, described conditions as barbarous, disgraceful, indefensible, and so on, is absolutely nothing as statement of fact. That is the expression of these newspapers; we have not the advantage of knowing what was the evidence upon which they based those statements, save in so far as we may assume that they based them on the evidence taken before the commission of investigation-and that sends us right back to where we were before the newspapers talked about it.
I sympathize with the idea of doing as much to treat every convict with such humanity as is consistent with his being detained at all. I go as far as anybody can go in the desire to see convicts treated with humanity, -but when you are trying to treat the convict with humanity you must be careful, in your zeal, not to be unjust to those who occupy the position of being charged with the carrying out of the law, such as the law is, and with the administration of a system for the carrying out of that law which is prescribed by regulations made by proper authority. The hon. member for Frontenac very truly pointed out the unreliable nature of evidence which you are likely to get in investigations of this kind, by reason of the desire which the convict or the subordinate employee may have to avoid in incurring the displeasure of those who occupy positions of authority over him. I think, too, that you have to recognize the essential unreliability of the evidence of a concur. Doherty.]
vict when directed against those whose position calls upon them to exercise authority over the convict, and who may have been called upon by existing regulations to exercise even an undue severity over that convict. In investigations of this kind you are necessarily face to face with testimony of a character which calls for the very closest scrutiny, both for the reasons pointed out by the hon. member for Frontenac, and for the reasons which I have just stated. I say that because I wish to add that from that results the absolute unsafety of taking every statement that is made by one or more witnesses placed in that position-witnesses whose testimony has to be weighed in view of the existing conditions-and say that it is true. We all know that evidence has to be weighed. We all know that one man's statement is not necessarily true, even when he believes it to be true. We all know that the statement of half a dozen men, contradicted by one man, may be an untrue statement, and that the one man may be telling the truth. Everybody whose calling in life puts upon him the duty of learning something about the appreciation of evidence, first learns the absolutely elementary principle that you must weigh evidence aud not count witnesses. I can quite understand that in the position in which the hon. member for Frontenac found himself, as he described it to us this evening, he was in perfect good faith when he brought these charges, and I do not question his good faith to-night, when he re-asserted his belief in these charges. But there is only one way by which matters of this kind can be dealt with and determined. You must find a tribunal to decide when people differ about questions of this kind, and such a tribunal must necessarily decide in the one sense or in the other. It is not to be expected that the decision of such a tribunal will always carry conviction to the party against whom the finding is made, but those who are called upon to take action in consequence of the existence of a certain state of facts must be allowed to rely upon the determination of a tribunal of some kind and to govern themselves accordingly. That is the situation in which we are placed with regard to the action that ought to be taken as the result of the investigation that has been had. I am satisfied that all of us have but one common feeling in the desire to make the condition of the convict as tolerable as is consistent with the purposes for which he is detained. I think that even the

hon. member for St. Lawrence, Montreal, who has such a growing conviction of the hardness of my own heart, scarcely believes all the very forcible things which he said this evening with regard to my attitude upon this question. I do not know whether I shall be able to persuade him in that regard, but I know myself what my feeling is respecting the treatment of the convict, and I am satisfied that we are all agreed on that point. It is an unfortunate and much-to-be-regretted circumstance that this matter of - general interest with which we are called upon to deal should find itself bound up with a question of charges against particular individuals. In saying that, I am not minimizing the importance of what the hon. member for Frontenac says when he points out that you cannot expect the best of systems to be worked to good results if you have not good men to work it out. Certainly, if I had to choose between the two, I think I should be disposed to prefer a bad system in the hands of good men to a good system in the hands of bad men. That does not alter the fact that it is regrettable that we have to treat these matters as connected; but the situation is such that we have to do it. I have the responsibility for the method in which this was done, and I am free to admit that possibly it would have been wiser to have separated the two things absolutely; to have investigated by one commission the charges which the hon. member for Frontenac brought forward against the two officers of the penitentiary Dr. Phelan and Mr. O'Leary, and to have left the general question of penitentiary administration and conditions to be separately considered by another commission. Possibly I was unwise in that regard.


William Cameron Edwards: Was not the object of
appointing the commission not only to inquire into the charges which I made, but also to inquire intelligently into matters in general?


Charles Joseph Doherty: Certainly.


William Cameron Edwards: As the hon. minister
clearly sets forth in his commission, the commission was to investigate and report, final judgment in regard to the officials as well as in regard to the general question of administration to rest not with the tribunal, but with the department.


Charles Joseph Doherty: No doubt the final decision and the final responsibility rests not 112
with the tribunal, but with the department. For the moment I was pointing out that possibly it would have been wiser to separate the two things. The present remark of the hon gentleman is perhaps more applicable to something I said a moment ago about the necessity of these matters being determined by somebody. I am not seeking to shirk the responsibility of the decision that has to be made both as to the charges and as to the action that has to be taken. I would base what I say on this: We must have a method of reaching some finality upon this subject. What is the method which was adopted, a method which I think the hon. member himself would concede was a proper method. I think the hon. member will recollect that his own suggestion was that we should appoint a commission to inquire, and, as he says, to report. We selected a Commission. If ever I tried to be careful to find an impartial commission and one with regard to whom there would be the impossibility even of suggesting that I had selected the members of the commission because I was looking for a result in one direction or another, I did it that time. Everybody was agreed, I think the hon. member for Frontenac was quite agreed, when those gentlemen were appointed, that I had sucfceeded in finding an impartial commission.


William Cameron Edwards: I did not know anything about it.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I will stand corrected if my memory deceives me, but I understood the hon. member for Frontenac, when this matter was discussed last year, to say, that at the time these names were announced as the commissioners chosen he had no fault to find.
%


William Cameron Edwards: That is not quite correct, that I saw no reason why they could not perform the duties properly. I candidly admit that I said that, and I am free also to say that I decidedly have changed my opinion.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I think we all quite realize that. What I wanted to point out was that I at least had got this far on a common road with the hon. member for Frontenac that I, from the best information I could get, believed I had got a perfectly impartial tribunal and he saw no reason why they should not perfectly carry out their duties.



Now, where is the parting of the ways? The parting of the ways between the hon. member for Frontenac and myself is upon the conclusion that the commission came to. His charge of opinion rests upon -the conclusion that the commission reached and the method in which he considered, in view of -the evidence, they reached that conclusion. So that we start with a commission, with no evidence to lead us to suspect the report of the commission, save the report itself. The hon. member for Frontenac discussed this commission last year and discussed this report. He discussed it on general lines, and he discussed it also with regard to the particular charges that were made against these two men. I said then that I would go into the evidence and compare it with the report, with regard more particularly to these two particular matters. I have tried to do that, putting into it the best capacity I had, and perhaps I may venture to claim that I have had some experience in the weighing of evidence. The result of my reading of the evidence, and my confronting of it with the report of the commission, I think it is only due to justice to say, is that, in so far as the charges against Mr. O'Leary are concerned, I can find no ground upon which I could disagree with the report. I am not saying, and no man can say, that the charges which the hon. member for Frontenac made were not true. But all of these matters have got to be judged on the evidence that is made. The member for Frontenac, I take it, had very much stronger grounds to believe these things to be true than he himself thinks that the evidence actually constituted. I have looked at that evidence, as I have said; I have compared it with the report, and I would be lacking in the courage to do justice if I did hot say that the results of the exercise of the best judgment that I have been able to bring to bear upon that question is that the report, in so far as it finds the charges made against Mr. O'Leary were not true, is justified by the evidence that was made before the commission. I make no profession to infallibility in that regard, but I have the responsibility, as the hon. member has pointed out, of reaching a conclusion as to the correctness of that report, and I am satisfied, as I have said, that that report is in that respect correct; and I feel, as I said at the outset, that, great as is my desire and great as should be the desire of everybody to treat with humanity and consideration the convict that has -erred, there i-s an imperative duty 
to do justice to the man against whom an offence is not established.
As regards the other charges, the charges against Dr. Phelan, you have got to divide the report which these gentlemen made between their report on the specific charges which were made and their general report upon conditions in the penitentiary that were not covered by the charges that were made.
I should say, perhaps, before I pass from thi-s, a word upon the five years limit. I may say at once that the five years limit was not intended by me, nor do the words of the commission that I issued, nor do I think the words of that commission as interpreted by the commissioners themselves, involve any limitation of five years in so far as regards any particular matter. I may cite the words:
Provided that the inquiries under paragraphs (a) and (b).
That is the management of the penitentiary and the conduct of the officers:
Shall not extend back over a longer period than five years, except in so far as the commissioners may deem it desirable, in the public interest, to inquire into any particular matter or matters antecedent to such period.
I would like to point out the condition which I found. Particular charges were made against these two men by the hon. member for Frontenac. They were addressed to me, and he asked for a commission. I acknowledged that letter, and I pointed out to the hon. member that it appeared to me that if these charges as they stood were to be submitted to a commission it would be a fair thing to communicate them to the people charged in order that an answer might be made and the issue might go to the commission. The hon. member for Frontenac answered me and said he thought it would be more desirable if a commission were appointed, and then he would lay the charges before them. I acquiesced in that manner of dealing with it. Speaking from memory, I am not quite certain whether the hon. member for Frontenac suggested to me a wider scope of inquiry or not, quite possibly it was so. I know that such suggestions were made to me by different members when the question arose, and I may say it was an idea that I *had in my own mind that it would be well to make a general inquiry and also to deal with particular matters. That general inquiry was of no interest save to enable me to judge of existing conditions, and certainly I think it would have been an unwise

thing to appoint a commission to investigate back to the time when the penitentiaries were started to ascertain how men who are dead and gone might have conducted themselves or what evils might have existed in the past. I was particularly careful to remove from them any restrictions so far as any particular matter was concerned which they might deem it desirable in the public interest to inquire into.


William Cameron Edwards: I presume the minister has looked at the evidence, and must have seen that the time clause was invoked again and again by the commission and by the counsel acting for the persons charged.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I have seen places
where the five-year limit was combined, with other considerations. I am not prepared to say that in 2,000 pages of evidence there is no case where exclusively upon the ground of the five-year limit something has not been excluded. But 1 think that while there may have been references to the five-year limit, there were also other considerations stated as justifying the refusal to go into the inquiry of some particular matter. For instance, the charge of perjury against O'Leary. To proceed to try a man on a charge of perjury fifteen years after the alleged offence, when persons who may have been thoroughly competent witnesses at the time have disappeared or died,-I appeal to the sense of fairness of my hon. friend whether that would be a fair thing to do.


William Cameron Edwards: I would appeal to the sense of fairness of the minister and ask him if he made that suggestion to me at the time.


Charles Joseph Doherty: 1 do not recollect that the charges specified a date at all.


William Cameron Edwards: The charge referred to a former investigation, and my hon. friend knows when that investigation took place.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I do not think I could tell my hon, friend now when it took place, and most assuredly, at that time, the statement as to a former investigation conveyed no specific idea of date to me. Moreover, I might point out to my hon. friend that when he told me that he did not want those charges communicated to the people charged, with a view to their making an answer, but that if I named a commission he would then make his charges, I must confess that I did not charge my mind with the particular words contained in his letter.


William Cameron Edwards: I am sure the minister does not *wish to misrepresent the facts, but he is not representing them correctly.
I did not state what he says at the time that conversation took place; I said that as soon as the commission was appointed, then copies of my charges would undoubtedly be sent to the men charged.


Charles Joseph Doherty: Of course, if I am mistaken I want to be corrected, but I think I can turn up the letter the hon. gentleman wrote me making the charges. This is the answer I made to that letter:
I have your letter of the 2nd instant, in which you make charges against Deputy Warden O'Leary and Dr. Phelan.
And so forth.
Before appointing a commissioner to make such inquiry, it would appear proper that the accusations should be submitted to the parties accused, for the purpose of eliciting any reply they may desire to make. Before communicating with these gentlemen, I desire to he informed whether you are willing that I should transmit them copy of your letter or if- you prefer that the accusations he communicated to them in some other form. I may say that for the purpose of the contemplated investigation, my present intention is to issue a commission under the Inquiries Act, Chapter 104 of the Revised Statutes Jif Canada. '
The reply I got to that was:
In reply to yours of the 4th inst., re O'Leary and Phelan, I quite agree that copies of the accusations should be sent to the accused, hut I am not sure that it would be in the best interests of a fair investigation to do more than that. The Commission of Inquiry which you propose to appoint, will bring out the facts and I am quite willing to go before that commission and restate what I have written to you.
There are other officials of the Portsmouth penitentiary whose conduct should he investigated, and I hope that the commission will be given wide powers.
What I understood him to say was " I am quite willing to go before that commission and re-state the charges.


William Cameron Edwards: Did you not say that
the first part of the letter should be sent to the men accused?


Charles Joseph Doherty: As I understand ithowever, it is perhaps not very material.


William Cameron Edwards: I think it is.


Charles Joseph Doherty: My attention certainly
was not called to the time at which the charge of perjury was made. Perhaps it was [DOT]my oversight, perhaps sufficient attention was not paid on my part. But I only want to point out that when the commissioners said, as they did say, that they did not think that would be a

fair thing to do, it seems to me they were right in saying that, at all events. I may say, moreover, that an opportunity was given in a general way to the gentleman from whom my hon. friend got a large part of the information on which he has based his charges to make any statements with regard to matters anterior to the five years.
With regard to the charges against Dr. Phelan, it is not necessary that I should go over what the commissioners said. It seemed to me they reached a fair conclusion on that subject. What are the consequences that'ought to be drawn from that conclusion is another matter. Tfhe first thing that struck me in dealing with this commission and their report was that the great material thing was to improve the conditions that were complained of.


William Cameron Edwards: What conclusion did
they reach about Dr. Phelan?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I thought the hon. gentleman read it himself. However, I will read it if he desires. Here is where they state the responsibility for certain conditions:
It being generally agreed that the condition o: the insane is and has been for years altogether unsatisfactory, the question " who are responsible?" demands an answer. The responsibility falls primarily upon two men, the surgeon and the inspector. The former, in his annual reports, should have given expression to views such as he presented in his evidence before the commission. This was clearly his duty and would have relieved him of responsibility,, but unfortunately a perusal of his reports leaves one with the impression that the state of the insane left nothing to be desired.
Then they go on to deal with Inspector Stewart.
Now here are the particular charges that my hon. friend desires that I shall read. I thought the hon. member was perfectly familiar with them at all events. There were four particular charges made. First he was charged:
(a) With gross political partisanship.
And the commission says:
The counsel for the Government properly says: "I do not propose to- argue that the evidence adduced supports the charge of political partisanship."
The second charge is:
Charge (b). The charge of "using violent and indecent language to a guard in the presence of others."
With regard to this the commission says:
The charge of "using violent and indecent language to a guard in the presence of others " is 
established, but it is claimed that it was used in jest; the evidence leaves this uncertain. In any case, the surgeon entirely forgot the dignity of his position and the discipline of the prison in making use of the language in question ; and the incident discloses an unhealthy state of things.
Then:
(c) With conniving at the absence of a guard at an election trial where said gufird was wanted as a material witness.
With regard to that the commission says:
The commission did not consider this charge to be within the limits of their commission. It occurred thirteen years ago. Some of the parties are dead. It has no bearing on the present state of - the prison.
Then there is the grafting charge, in regard to which they say:
Dr. Phelan admits that in four cases he asked and received a small fee from an applicant for a guard's position as to his physical fitness, and this is a contravention of the statute, as he is not to practise his profession. He says he has not done so for several years. The amount wrongfully taken by him was $4.
The foregoing are the only charges made against Dr. Phelan by Dt Edwards.
I have not been able to find in my examination of the evidence any reason to question the conclusions reached by the commission not only upon these particular charges but in regard to Dr. Phelan by reason of the general conditions in connection with the hospital. The action that ought to be taken in consequence of that is another question. The first thing that seemed important for us to do was to proceed to remedy the conditions. The great condition that called for a remedy in my mind was that in regard to insane patients.


Robert Bickerdike: Mr. Chairman, you were particular to call me to order. I would now call your attention to the fact that I do not think there is any quorum and you cannot conduct the proceedings of the committee without a quorum.


Mr. ROGERS:: The hon. gentleman is
mistaken.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I think the hon. gentleman will have to make another count. -


Albert Sévigny: I
think the point of order is well taken: there are only 15 members in the House.
Mr. Speaker having resumed the Chair,


Albert Sévigny: I beg to report, Air.
Speaker, that there is no quorum.


Thomas Simpson Sproule: It is probably my duty
to make the count. There are 22 members

in the House, which is two more than a quorum.
The House haying resumed in Committee of Supply, Mr. Sevigny in the Chair:


Charles Joseph Doherty: The first thing that seemed to call for improvement was the condition in regard to the insane convicts. Sometimes, when you improve a system, you alter the situation in regard to individuals. Very shortly after the close of last session I took up the matter of the removal of the insane. It was not a thing that could be done in a day. Arms were not held wide open to take these people off our hands. It was a matter of persuading the provincial authorities to allow these men to be removed. It took some months of correspondence, and it might have been done more promptly if there had not been other matters of considerable importance that occupied a great deal of the time of the Minister of Justice. We have not lived an ordinary year, and it is not only penitentiary matters that have had to wait. It was necessary for me to deal with this matter personally before I could bring about any consent to take these insane persons off our hands. I do not think this is the best -way to deal with this question. I hope we shall have an institution under Dominion control for convicts of this class, but in the meantime we have adopted the best possible method of disposing of the matter. We are now dealing with the whole system of the regulations and with the whole body of the recommendations. They are important recommendations. Many of them commend themselves to my judgment, although I do not agree with them all. I have taken means of ascertaining to what extent precisely they ought to be carried out. I thought that in dealing with them it was a reasonable and fair thing that I should endeavour to have the views of the men who have experience in administering the penitentiaries. I do not look upon them as being infallible, but I think it is the part of wisdom to have the benefit of their judgment. These recommendations have been submitted to all the different wardens and we have received the last of their reports. We propose now to take up the question of making regulations.
As regards what has been said about tubbing and hosing, it is hardly fair, although I do not impute any intention of unfairness, to let it go broadcast to the world that this tubbing is a matter of recent
occurrence. I followed the hon. gentleman as carefully as I could, and if I am not mistaken the last case which he described as tubbing was a case that occurred seven years before the evidence was given. At all events, I think we can agree that it was a number of years anterior to the time when the evidence was given, which was in 1913.
I would say that it was five or six years before the evidence was given, which would place it in 1907 or 1908. In face of that circumstance I think we might fairly say that tubbing is not one of the things we have had to contend with to-day. In regard to this punishment of hosing, we have had no recent case. The hon. gentleman says that my answer gave it as May, 1913, and that the witness to whom he referred said it was in July. I think the witness he refers to must be mistaken. It is only a matter of two months anyway, but the reason I think is, as I say, that since the beginning of the wardenship of Colonel Irvine there has been no hosing, and the wardenship of Colonel Irvine began about July. However, it is not very material, except as a matter of absolute accuracy.	,


William Cameron Edwards: I think that if my hon. friend looks at his brief he will see that the evidence of Grey is that the last tubbing took place in July, 1913.


Charles Joseph Doherty: I am only pointing out why he must have been mistaken, but at all events it does not matter very materially. I wish to say with regard to this punishment that I am not here to defend it. It is a punishment provided under regulations, and I am informed it was approved by Order in Council on the recommendation of the Hon. David Mills, who certainly was known in days past as a most humane man, and I am informed, with the approval of Sir Oliver Mowat, who was also a humane man. I may also point out that the majority of the wardens of the penitentiaries, men of high character, and some of long experience, looked upon this as a desirable form of punishment as a last resort. I do not point this out for the purpose of saying that it is a thing that ought to be continued^ but for the sake of showing that it is not fair to condemn as cruel for the infliction of this punishment a man holding office in which it is prescribed to him by higher authority that this was a suitable punishment to inflect.
We have taken up this whole subject very seriously. We have not been able

to deal with it as promptly as we would in another year, and under other conditions, but it is not helpful to us, when we are trying to introduce improvements, to have it stated in the press and elsewhere that to-day we are doing barbarous things. I heard it stated this afternoon, by an hon. member, that he had seen instruments of torture in the penitentiary, and I would be glad to know what these instruments of torture are, because I certainly have no desire to see them the-e. I want to point out how unfortunate it is that we should have statements go forward, without evidence to support them, as regards the condition of the penitentiaries to-day. I had occasion the other evening to read a statement from the warden of the Kingston penitentiary as to the conditions there to-day, and since he has been warden, and certainly that statement discloses no condition that would justify the description which was given by the hon. member for St. Lawrence (Mr. Bickerdike) to-night. I know that the representation made by the hon. gentleman was made in good faith, but fortunately it is without foundation as regards existing conditions in the peniten tiary.
We have completed the arrangements with regard to the care of the insane, and this great improvement necessarily creates a new situation in Kingston penitentiary. There is another question very close to that and which to my mind comes next to it, and that is the question of the whole system of medical attendance. I am sure the hon. member will agree with me that this iis .a most important question. There is more in that question than the position of one man; there is the question whether a different system in securing medical attendance for the convicts is not desirable. Before we come to deal with one isolated case it would be wise for us to come to a conclusion on the subject, because what may happen in a particular case may be affected very gravely by what conclusion may be reached on the general question.
I would ask nothing better than to have the time and the opportunity to bring about improvements in the conditions in our penitentiaries, but I want to say perfectly frankly that I can hold out no hope to anybody who thinks that between now and to-morrow, or between now and next week, or between now and next month, we can have an ideal system of penitentiary administration. It is not possible to effect improvement in such great haste as some people would seem to think. We are at

the beginning of things in the way of improvement, and we will have to go step by step. I believe we will in time bring about improvement, and I hope to have the cooperation of those hon. gentlemen who desire it as earnestly as I do. I shall count upon the assistance of the hon. member for Frontenac (Mr. Edwards), just as I shall count upon the assistance of the hon. member for Kingston (Mr. Nickle), and even upon the assistance of the hon. member for St. Lawrence (Mr. Bickerdike), if he gets himself into a frame of mind where he can believe that my heart is not so full of the spirit of vengeance as he affected to think it was. I do not promise the hon. member that the penitentiaries shall become such pleasure resorts as the Colorado prison that he has described. With the time that has been at my disposal I have done my utmost to bring about improvement, and 1 hope to be able to bring about still greater improvement. It is only frank and honest on my part to say that I believe that those are mistaken who nurse the idea that you can carry on institutions which only have the right to exist because it is the duty of society to punish offenders, by leaving out the element of punishment. I do not pledge myself to any undertaking of that kind. Of more importance than the condition of a particular convict is the question why society has the right to punish a man, and my belief is that the real reason why we have the right to arrest and detain a man is in order that tire punishment he receives may serve as a deterrent to others. Incidental to that punishment I would be glad to do everything I can to reform. Under no circumstances would I countenance anything that would not be humane. But when it is suggested that a penitentiary should cease to be a place where people are punished, that the conditions in it shall be made such as it shall cease to be a punitive institution, then I think the time will have arrived when the state would have no right to maintain such an institution. We have no right, in my judgment, to imprison a man exclusively for the sake of reforming him; our right rests on the necessity of punishing him to protect society, and when the necessity for punishment will have disappeared, the right to imprison will have disappeared also.


Robert Bickerdike: Would the hon.
gentleman not go a little further and say

that the punishment should be also with a view to reforming the prisoner?


Charles Joseph Doherty: I have said that, so far as incidentally to this punishment you can do reformatory work, my heart is entirely with the hon. member for St. Lawrence. We must all bear in mind, however, not to lose our balance. It may be creditable to our hearts when we lose our balance; but it is incumbent upon some one to keep his head in this regard, and the man who has charge of the administration of justice has to remember that justice requires punishment for violation of law, and punishment such as will operate to deter those who witness it from following the example of the offender. I do not undertake to forget that; I would be forgetting my duty if I did; but
so far as is consistent with that, anything that can be done to help reform the prisoner should be done; and, whether consistent or not with that, we must, of course, be humane. Punishment does not exclude reform. So far as anything is done that ought to be done as punishment, we ought to be assured that our punishment shall be humane; and so far as it is possible to make it serve as a reformatory influence, I shall be glad to co-operate with all those who will co-operate with me, and glad to do my best alone. If I do not get the co-operation which, after what I have heard this evening, I think I have a right to count upon.
Progress reported.
On motion of Mr. Rogers, the House adjourned at 12.05 a.m., Wednesday.
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Abbreviations.-lr., 2r., 3r=first, second, or third reading. Amdt.=Amendment. Com.= Committee. Con.=Consideration. Div.=Division. M.=Motion. Ref.= Reference. Rep.-Report. Res.-Resolution. Sec.==Section.
Aberdeen Association-franking privilege, 1370
Achim, Mr. Honore (Labelle)
Address in reply to Governor General's Speech
Trade of Canada, 11 Members at the front, 12 Canada and the war, 13 Defence by Belgians, 14 Experimental farm for Labelle, 2072
Address in reply to Governor General's Speech, 4
Adulteration Act Amendment Bill (Maple Sugar), lr., 1644. 2r„ 1790. Com., 1790. 3r., 1993. See 2313
Adulteration of food-maple sugar, 1785 Aeroplanes, reported appearance of, 144 Agricultural implements. See Taxation Agriculture
Agricultural Instruction Act, administration of, 2107
Animals, health of, 611, 1286, 2053, 2087, 2108
Bulletins, 2083, 2088, 2092 Cold storage, 2084 Dairying industry, 2080, 2103 Department
Estimates, 1228-1242, 2055-2109 French language in, 2077 Salaries, 2055 Experimental farms, 2056 Hog cholera, 627
Horses, 1230, 2104. See War supplies
Insect pests, 2078, 2109
Live stock, 309, 348, 2087, 2092, 2093, 2104
Meat and Canned Foods Act, 2090
Potatoes
Diggers, tariff on, 1174 Embargo on, 719, 772, 991, 1229, 2078 Powdery scab in, 2078 Shipment regulations, 1229 Seed grain. See that title Seeds, improvement of, 2106
Aikins, Sir James A. M. (Brandon)
Boots, army, 2442
Food exports, government control of, 537 Recruits' attestation papers, 1988
Alberta
Military training area, 155'7 Miners, unemployment of, 493 Oil leases, 48 Relief distribution, 242
Alert, revenue steamer, 1646
Aliens
Assistance to, 1218, 2053 Deportation of, 2122 Interned at Petawawa, 828, 998 Registration of, 48, 1147, 1733 See Criminal Code Amendment Bill
Allison. See War
Ames, Mr. Herbert B. (Montreal, St. Antoine) Canadian patriotic fund, 394
Amherst
Armoury, 389, 1395, 1977, 2035 Camp, 1290, 1395 Custom house, 1646 Post office, 436, 1396, 1975 Redstone Company, 1864
Ammunition, distribution of, 1652 Anderson, T. A., employment of, 605, 761, 996 Animals. See Agriculture Anticosti lightship, 309 Antigonish-Sherbrooke mail service, 46
Architect, Dominion chief, appointment of, 1958, 1961, 1966, 2184
Arichat mails, 1184
Armstrong, Mr. Joseph E. (East Lambton) Budget, 577
Record of the Government, 580 Reciprocity, 582 Naval affairs, 582 British preference, 584 Flax industry, 585
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ii
Armstrong, Mr. J. E. (East Lambton) Con.
Dominion elections-hours of polling, 1911 Inland navigation rates, control of, 43, 249 Taxation-gravel and sand, 1163
Arthurs, Mr. James (Parry Sound)
Canadian patriotic fund, 402 Dominion elections, 1919
Astronomical observatory, western, 15S5, 1893
Atlantic and Lake Superior railway, 1468 Atlases
Dominion electoral, 2307 Immigration, 1576
Auditor General
Office of-non-employment of French Canadians. 2318
Australia, steamship service to, 1292
Aviation school, 1989
Bagot county mail service, 141
Baie des Chaleurs railway, claims against,
Ball, Mr. R. J. (South Grey)
Budget, 955
Government expenditure and employment, 955
War contracts, 956 Tariff and taxation, 956 The war and trade, 957 Dominion elections-hours of voting, 1914
Ballot, patent, allowance for, 1591 Bananas, tariff on, 1167
Bank Act Amendment Bill (loans for seed grain). Res., 1242. lr., 1246. 2r., 1349. Com., 1349.	3r„ 1359.
Banks and banking
Borrowings from Government, 147, 476 Finance Act, 1914, continued, 477
Barker, Hon. Samuel (East Hamilton)
War supplies-horses, 2103
Barnard, Mr. Geo. H. (Victoria, B.C.) Submarines, purchase of, 107 Titles to real estate, fraudulent, 1223
Bathurst harbour, 46 Battlefields, historic, 1716 Bedard, L., dismissal of, 1652 Belgium
Emigration from, 632 Relief for, 1676
Bellemare, Mr. A. (Maskinong£)
Budget-agricultural production and the war, 809
Intercolonial railway ties, 309 Benjamin, H., employment of, 241 Bennett, Mr. R. B. (Calgary)
Bank loans for, seed grain, 1356 Budget, 1089
Canada and the war, 1090 Fiscal policies, 1091 Expenditures on public works, 1094 Protection and free trade, 1096 Home market, 1097 British preference, 1101 Controverted elections, 1924, 2009, 2025 Dominion elections, 1899 Experimental farms, 2060 Ferguson, Mr. T. R., report of, on Department of Interior, 2592
Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 2141
Relief for western farmers, 73, 1336, 1338 Senate, the, 2336
Soldiers, votes for, 2233, 2261, 2274 Supreme Court jurisdiction, 2054 Taxation-insurance companies, 1179 War supplies-horses, 2096 Bennett, Mr. Wm. H. (East Simcoe) Canadian patriotic fund, 397 Freight rates, inland navigation, regulation of, 259
Grain shortages at elevators, 1946 Soldiers, votes for, 2257, 2475 Bickerdike, Mr. Robert (Montreal, St. Lawrence)
Capital punishment, 42, 127, 281, 1763 Immigrants, inspection of, 1574 Prison reform, 1761 Binders, imports of, 1649 Blain, Mr. Richard (Peel)
Budget, 794
British preference, 799 Trade of Canada, 800 Fertilizers, 801 War supplies, 802 Dominion elections, 1906, 1913 Blais, A., dismissal of, 1652 Blondin, Hon. P. E. (Minister of Inland Revenue)
Excise goods in bond, transfer of, 1644 Maple sugar, adulteration of, 1644, 1790 Inland Revenue Department Appointment of temporary officials, 1644, 1868
Deputy Minister, pamphlet of, 1724 Estimates, 503-513, 1717-1727, 2313
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Blue-books, printing and distribution of, 1595, 2310
Boivin, Mr. Geo. H. (Shefford)
Granby mail service, 905 Ldvis dry dock, 767 Patent shovel shield, 437, 1235 Shefford mail service, 12S7 Bonaventure
Mail service, 769, 994, 2297 Purchase of war supplies in, 994
Boots, army, purchase of. See War Supplies
Borden, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert (Prime Minister)
Address in reply to Governor General's Speech
Services of the Governor General, 20 Loyalty of Canadians of foreign origin 20
Decease of members, 21 Army boot contracts, 21 Causes of the war, 22 Canadian contingent, 24 Aeroplanes, reported appearance of, 145 Aviation schools, 1989
British Columbia better terms commission 231&
British North America Act, proposed amendment of. See Parliamentary representation.
Budget, 1058
Proposed war taxation, 1058 Conference with Opposition, 1058 Tariff proposals, 1060 British preference, 1061 Length of debate, 1064 Canadian High Commissionership, 2318 Canadian Manufacturers' Association, cor-;
respondence of, 2189, 2461 Canadian Pacific railway ocean services, 749
Canadian patriotic fund, 395 Canadian representative at Washington 2315
Capital punishment, 140 Conservation Commission, 2324 Controverted elections, 1995, 2007, 2014 2020
Copyright, 203 Divorce bills, 1988, 2187 Dominion elections, 2143 Dominion notes, issue of,-1537 Expropriation of lands for military purposes, 1549
External Affairs, department of, 2318 Parquhar, Colonel, death in action of, 1283 Food exports, government control of, 551 Fort Erie shooting case, 333
Borden, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert (Prime Minister) -Con.
Franco-Canadian steamship service, 718 Government buildings rented-alleged misconduct of officials, 2050 House of Commons
Bowles, Mr. W. C., resignation of, 1526 Business of the Douse, 206, 1187 Committees, select standing, 74 Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Committees, election of, 41
Kepresentation in. See Parliamentary Correction of clerical errors in Act (1914), 1557, 1994
Intercolonial railway branch lines, 1543 Lake of the Woods Technical Board, 1394 Liquor manufacture, suggested suspension of, 2327
Medical Council of Canada, 1251, 2316 Ministerial changes, 207 Monuments, erection of, 1251, 1252 Mounted Police, Royal Northwest, 1249 2322, 2326
National Transcontinental railway, operation of, 2125, 2135 Newspaper attacks, 2190 Nickel, export of, 3 Nova Scotia
Military forces, 561, 612, 687, 720, 905, 1432, 1441, 1500 Postal services, 904
Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 2143-2146
Parliamentary	representation-proposed
amendment of British North America Act, 1460, 2327, 2340, 2342. See Prince Edward Island
Prince Edward Island, parliamentary representation of, 327, 1460. See Parliamentary representation Public Accounts Committee. See War supplies
Railway capitalization, 290 Reindeer, experiments with, 2315 Robertson, Lt.-Col. Struan. See Nova Scotia military forces Senate. See Parliamentary representation Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 679 Soldiers
Comforts for, 293 Payment of, 2320
Votes for, 337, 2200, 2213, 2259, 2469, 2477, 2537
Submarines, purchase of, 105, 946, 955 Taxation-liquor duties, 1154 Unemployment, 2320 Valcartier land claims, 1549
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Borden, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert (Prime Minister) -Con.
War
Appropriations, 93, 1397 *Canadian expeditionary forces-statement of mobilization and organization, 2364
Canadian troops in France, 204, 909 Engineering corps, 1525 Expenditures, statement of, 1397 Fair wages in war contracts, 38 Nova Scotia military forces. See that title
Pensions, 1188, 1394, 1450 Supplies, purchase of Ammunition, 93, 1455 Binoculars, 2605 Boots, 21, 144, 204, 2450 British Government, for, 38, 2461, 2614 Carleton Drug Company, 2605, 2614 Committee of Council, 1246 Generally, 93, 945, 2461, 2538, 2602, 2610, 2614, 2617
Horses, 2098-2102, 2606, 2613 Shells, 38, 2614
Western farmers, relief for, 1330
Boulay, Mr. H. (Rimouski)
Agriculture in Quebec, 2076 Anticosti lightship, 309 Budget, 984
French Canadians in Government service, 985
Judges' pensions, 987 Aid to agriculture, 988 Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company, payments to, 1864
French language in Department of Agriculture, 2077
Immigration inspectors and the French language, 233 Intercolonial railway Bridges, 897 Cement posts, 309 Dining car employees, 1485 Passenger service, 1485 Madawaska postal service, 1388 Marine service in Rimouski, 1256, 2304 Matapedia road, 2178 Ore refined in United States, 309 Voters' lists, errors in, 2309 War supplies-horses, 898, 1455 Bo unties on lead and petroleum, 1936 Bo urassa, Mr. J. Boutin (LSvis)
Dismissals, 1652 Intercolonial railway Chaudiere employees, 1785 Ldvis station, 831
Bourassa, Mr. J. Boutin (LOvis)- Con.
Lauzon dry dock, 1647 LOvis quarantine station, 241, 1290 National Transcontinental railway-Quebec terminals, 518 St. Romuald post office, 518 Telephone disinfectants, 2531 War supplies-horses, 830
Bowman, Mr. James (East Huron)
Budget, 930
Rival fiscal policies, 930 Development under protection, 932 Aid to agriculture, 934
Boyer, Mr. Gustave (Vaudreuil)
LOvis shell factory, 519
Maple sugar industry, 513, 1794
Rigaud
Armoury, 631, 993 Dredging, 390 Wharf, 1786
Scales in cheese and butter factories, inspection of, 513 St. Zotique wharf, 390 War supplies Horses, 388 Saddles, 521
Bradbury, Mr. George H. (Selkirk)
Budget, 715, 772
Pre-election promises, 716, 776 Expenditures on public works, 717, 772 British preference and the tariff, 781, 783 Cement merger, 784 Hudson Bay railway, 786 Seed grain distribution, 789 Experimental farms, 2066 Pollution of navigable waters, 3, 118 St. Peter's Indian reserve, 1321, 1882
Bristol, Mr. Edmund (Toronto Centre) Inland navigation freight rates, regulation of, 254
British Columbia
Better Terms Commission, 2316 Labour troubles, 497 Militiamen on active service, 151 Steamship services, 1300
British North America Act, proposed amendment of, 1459, 2327
Brooks-MacNally mail service, 994
Brouillard, Mr. Ovide (Drummond and Artha-baska)
Gilbert, R., employment of, 1787 Stanfold model farm, 1993
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Buchanan, Mr. William A. (Medicine Hat) Alberta
Coal industry, 492 Oil leases, 48
Relief distribution, 242, 2188 Bank loans for seed grain, 1244 Blood Indian reserve, 763, 1323 Brooks-MacNally mail service, 994 Coal imports, 521 Coutts quarantine area, 150 Experimental farms, 2066 Pood exports, government control of, 540 Lethbridge
Customs staff, 521 Field battery, 1646 Immigration inspector, 150, 1567 Postmastership, 143, 769, 1364, 1367 Wool storage, 828 Medicine Hat
Homestead inspection, 2123 Postmasters, 764 Rural mail service, 768 Mounted Police, Northwest, 1284 Oil and gas leases, 241 Railway charters, extension of, 724, 758 War supplies-horses, 631, 1146 Western farmers, relief for, 58, 947, 1244, 1340. See Bank loans Wrentham post office, 142
Budget debate, 80, 352, 404, 442, 562, 613, 689, 709, 772, 833; amendment (Sir Wilfrid Laurier), 841, 905, 955, 999, 1058; div., 1141. See Taxation
Bureau, Mr. Jacques (Three Rivers and St.
Maurice)
Cap de la Madelaine wharf, 2120 Inland Revenue, Deputy Minister of, pamphlet of, 1724
Maple syrup, adulteration of, 1792, 1800 St. Maurice river slides and booms, timber for, 2184
Soldiers, votes for, 2288, 2491 Taxation-postage stamps and war stamps, 2539
Three Rivers Dredging, 2175 Harbour works, 2155 Public building, 1786
Burnham, Mr. John H. (Peterborough West) Budget, 404
Unemployment, 405 British preference, 408 Eastern peril, 409 German menace, 411 Free trade, 413
Made-in-Canada movement, 414
Burnham, Mr. John H. (Peterborough West) -Con.
Budget-Con.
Balance of trade, 415 Ethics and industry, 416 Civil service, old men in, 1871 Controverted elections, 2011 Dominion elections-hours of polling, 1907 Grain shortage, compensation for, 1956 Immigration and old age pensions, 1573 Mail carriers, remuneration of, 1374 Naval service, 1660
Peterborough government employees, 1285
Burrell, Hon. Martin (Minister of Agriculture)
Agricultural Instruction Act, administration of, 2107
Agriculture, Department of Estimates, 2055 Bulletins, 2083, 2092 Cold storage, 2084 Dairying industry, 2081, 2103 Exhibitions, 20^5, 2109 Experimental farms, 2056, 2058, 2072 Foot and mouth disease, 2088 Horse breeding, 2104 Live stock industry, 2092 Meat, inspection of, 2091 Potato scab, 2078 Public health, 2108 Parliamentary representation, 1994 Seeds, improvement of, 2106 Cadwell Sand and Gravel Company, 1166 Calgary civil servants, 1184 Calmer-Telfordville mail service, 1187
Canada Grain Act Amendment Bill, lr., 1644.
2r., 2030. Com., 2030.	3r., 2191. Sen.
amdt., 2532
Canada Temperance Act, referenda under, 1590
Canada Year Book, 1938
Canadian expeditionary forces. See War
Canadian Manufacturers' Association and
war supplies, 1667, 2189, 2461
Canadian Northern Railway Company, payments to, 150
Canadian Pacific railway
Capitalization, control' of, 286, 726 Ocean services, 749
Canadian patriotic fund, 143, 1446, 1864 Canadian Patriotic Fund Act Amendment Bill, lr., 204.	2r„ 393. Com., 393. 3r„
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Canadian Peace Centenary Association, 2315 Canadian Peat Society, 1865
Canadian representative at Washington,
Canadian War Contingent Association, 2122 Canadian Wheatlands Company, 2188 Canadians in California, status of, 1189
Canals, 491, 632, 832, 1710, 1712
For individual canals, gee their titles
Canning public building, 1979 Canso
Fish reduction works, 633, 767 Military guard, 1556
Cape Breton, customs service in, 222, 225, 227, 1650
Capital punishment, abolition of, 42, 127, 264, 1228, 1761
Cardigan-Annandale mail service, 1648
Cardin, Mr. P. J. A. (Richelieu)
Richelieu postal service, 1287
Cardin, D., employment of, 1993
Cardinal canal, 832
Carey, J. M., employment of, 993
Cariboo island breakwater, 308
Carleton retaining wall, 390
Carrick, Mr. J. J., M.P., service of, 561
Carroll, Mr. W. F. (Cape Breton South) Aliens, registration of, 1147, 1733.
Bank loans for seed grain, 1352, 1358 Benjamin, H., employment of, 241 Budget, 989, 1012 Party truce, 1013 Naval question, 1014 Free trade, 1015 Proposed new taxes, 1016 Manufacturers and prices, 1018 Labour and the tariff, 1021 Liberals and the war, 1021 Aid to Belgium, 1022
Canadian Pacific railway ocean service, 743 Canadian patriotic fund, 393 Cape Breton customs service, 222, 225, 227 Explosives in mines, 1601 Food exports, government control of, 550 Foster, W. G„ employment of, 898 Inland navigation rates, 255, 1687 Intercolonial railway-service of Mr. Gute-lius, 1483
Iron and coal imports, 244
Carroll, Mr. W. F. (Cape Breton South)- Von.
Kelly, Edgar, employment of, 241 Livingstone, C. P., appointment of, 150 Miller, J., patent of, 1990 Mines Department, 1600 National employment bureau, 484-490 New Waterford Postal service, 1360 Recruiting, 392 Customs service, 227 Nova Scotia
Fire insurance rates in, 1284, 1399 Postal service, 903 Patent medicines, alcohol in, 1717 Railway charters, extension of, 722 Smuggling, alleged, in Cape Breton, 222 Sydney pilotage commissioners, 1265 Sydney-New Waterford mail service, 1361 Sydney-St. Peter's railway, 608 Valcartier camp stores, 308 Vancouver Terminal Company, 1262 Voters' lists, preparation of, 1594 War supplies-horses, 607
Carslake Hotel purchase. See Montreal
Carvell, Mr. Frank B. (Carleton, N.B.) Budget, 1066
The party truce, 1066 Revenue and expenditure, 1068 Taxation proposals, 1071 British preference, 1079 Canadian Northern Railway Company, 760 Civil Service appointments, 1144, 1285 Controverted elections, 1924, 2151 Dominion elections Hours of polling, 1906 Voters' lists, 1897
Fraudulent titles to real estate, 1221 French, Field Marshal Sir John, 1444 Horse exports, 1234 Intercolonial railway Fredericton land purchase, 168, 1475 Freight rates and trains, 156, 167 St. John and Quebec railway agreement, 1473
Militia-engineer services and works, 1513 Pollution of navigable waters, 124 Potato embargo, 719 St. John Valley railway, 46, 173, 1473 Soldiers Pay of, 2320 Votes for, 2352
Southampton railway investigation, 142 Taxation
Agricultural implements, 1174 Customs valuation, 1154 Fertilizers, 1076, 1166 Tobique Indian reserve, 187, 193
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[Stage Direction]
vii
Carvell, Mr. Frank B. (Carleton, N.B.)-Con.
Valley railway, 142 War supplies Hay, 140, 241
Imported munitions, duty on, 1506 Motor truck tires, 1290
Casgrain, Hon. T. Chase (Postmaster General)
Aberdeen Association and the franking privilege, 1370
Montreal postal service, 1378, 2296 Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 2145
Pollution of navigable waters, 125 Post office
Contingencies, 1360
Department staff and salaries, 1359, 2295 Dismissals, 1367 Estimates, 1359-1394, 2295-2298 Letters for soldiers, 1419, 1422 Mail bag locks, 47, 1393 Mail carriers, payment of, 2297 Outside service, 1360, 1371 Parcel post, 1371-1375, 1384 Rural mail service, 1379 Stamps, sale and use of, 1391, 1393, 1422, 2297, 2624
Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 661 Cattle. See Agriculture Censorship, 1264, 1448, 1496, 1506, 1618 Charbonneau, R., employment of, 610 Chesley public building, 1646
Chisholm, Mr. Alexander W. (Inverness) Campbell, Daniel, weights and measures official, 511 Cheticamp
Live-saving station, 1633, 1636 Marine medical service, 1269 Intercolonial railway branch lines, 1482, 1702
Inverness harbour improvements, 2052 McLeod, Mr., dismissal of, 1606 Navigable waters, removal of obstructions in, 347
Steam trawling, 246, 2306
Chisholm, Mr. William (Antigonish) Antigonish-Sherbrooke mail service, 46 Eastern Extension railway land damages, 1469
Fenian raid bounty, 1546 . Immigration to Nova Scotia, 1558 Intercolonial railway Abutment contracts, 895, 1286 Branch lines, eastern Nova Scotia, 1478, 1482
Chisholm, Mr. William (Antigonish)-Con.
Intercolonial railway-Con.
Bridges, watchmen on, 763 Coal contracts, 769 Nova Scotia
Indians, 1308, 1310, 1312 Inland revenue officials, 507 Postal service, 1380 Oil for fuel, imports of, 143 Taxation-postal rates and stamp taxes, 1413
War supplies-clinic thermometers, 307, 521 Civil Service
Appointments, 213, 218, 1144, 1285, 1591 Commission, 992, 1612 Dismissals, 213, 218
Militia service, civil servants in, 312, 522 Reform, 895, 1189
Speech of Mr. Adam Shortt, 213, 232, 471, 634
Clark, Mr. Hugh (North Bruce)
Agricultural reports, 2083 Prison reform, 1766 Soldiers, votes for, 2282, 2351
Clark, Mr. Michael (Red Deer)
Address in reply to Governor General's Speech, 27
Made-in-Canada campaign, 28 Canada's paramount duty, 30 Spending of monevs. 31 Party literature, 3i Election talk, 32 Claims of the Empire, 32 Budget, 863
Submarines in naval warfare, 864
Financial comparisons, 867
Home markets and the National Policy,
Borrowings or economy, 870 War and taxation, 872 Income tax, 872
British preference and made-in-Canada campaign, 873, 876 Effect of the new tariff, 875 Canadian patriotic fund, 404 Dismissals, 1366
Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 640 Soldiers, votes for, 2201, 2217, 2468 Taxation
Income, 1197
Postage stamps and war stamps, 1415 See Budget
Western farmers, relief for, 67 Wetaskawin settlers, grievances of, 1565
Volume i:	1-944
Volume ii:	945-1783
Volume iii:	1785-2628
[Stage Direction]
Clarke, Mr. W. A. (North Wellington)
Budget, 1050
Canada and the war, 1051 The Government's tariff policy, 1051 Revenue and protection, 1051 Western conditions, 1052
Coal. See Mines
Coast Guard, steamer, 1866
Coasting trade, 296, 1933
Cochrane, Hon. Frank (Minister of Railways and Canals)
Canadian Pacific railway ocean services, 746 Canals
Soulanges, 1712 Staff, repairs, etc., 1713 Trent, 1712 Welland, 1710, 1713
Government purchase of railways, 1540, 1681
Hudson Bay railway, 1861 Intercolonial railway Branch lines
Eastern Nova Scotia, 1467, 1477, 1482, 1701
Chatham, 1492, 1686 Bridges, 1492, 1686 Cape Breton improvements, 1687 Fredericton land purchase, 171 Freight rates and trains, 164 General management, 1489 Halifax terminals, 1688 Highway protection, 1687 Moncton
Death claim-Mrs. O'Rourke, 1475 Improvements, 1691 Subway, 1397
Mulgrave car ferry, 1473, 1693 Operation, 1472, 1690 Quebec solicitor, 1708 Rolling stock, 1695 Safety appliances, 1698 St. John and Quebec railway agreement, 1473
National Transcontinental railway Construction, 1859
Government operation, 1802, 1816, 2128 Montreal connection, 1711 Quebec Bridge, 1710 Terminals, 1860
Railways and Canals Department Estimates, 1467-1495, 1685-1713, 1859 Staff and salaries, 1471 St. John Valley railway, 184
Cockshutt, Mr. William F. (Brantford)
Food exports, government control of, 526,
Naturalization, 610 Soldiers, votes for, 2266
Coderre, Hon. Louis (Secretary of State and Minister of Mines)
Canada Temperance Act, referenda under, 1590
Dominion electoral atlas, 2307 Mines Department Electric smelting, 1602, 2313 Estimates, 1599-1612, 2313 Explosives in mines, 1601, 1604 Geological survey, 1607-1611 Investigations and experiments, 1603, 2313
Staff and salaries, 1599 Tar sands for road making, 1604 Printing and stationery, 1591 Scientific literature, international catalogue of, 1590
Secretary of State, Department of Estimates 1588-1598, 2307 Staff, salaries, etc., 1588, 1589 Vincent, Mr. J. U., pamphlet of, 1724 Voters' lists, preparation of, 1594
Colcleugh, F. W. R., employment of, 1648 Cold storage. See Agriculture Cole Harbour wharf, 517 Collingwood Ship Building Company, 519 Conservation Commission, 2314, 2324 Consolidated Fund expenditure, 1290 Contrecoeur public works, 1651 Cookshire post office, 1991
Copp, Mr. A. B. (Westmorland, N. B.) Amherst
Camp, 1290, 1395 Military buildings, 1395 Redstone Company, 1864 Budget, 936
Economy or taxation, 938 The party truce, 938 Tariff burdens on farmers, 940 Patriotism-and-production campaign, 941 New Brunswick and war taxes, 943 Intercolonial railway management, 944 Grand Trunk Pacific railway, labour conditions on, 498 Intercolonial railway Branch lines, 1685, 1706 Employees, enlistment of, 245 Management, 1487, 1491
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[Stage Direction]
ix
Copp, Mr. A. B. (Westmorland, N.B.)-Con.
Intercolonial railway-Con.
Moncton
Death claim-Mrs. O'Rourke, 1475, 1713 Shops, 1696 Subway, 1397 Operation, 1708
Sackville, accommodation at, 606, 1693, 1706
Wages, payment of, 498 Mount Allison military instruction, 1524 New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island railway, purchase of, 152, 1685 Post Office
Employees, inefficiency of, 1392 Rural mail service, 1390 Sackville
Home guard, 1517 Pilotage, 1266 Post office, 153 War supplies Hay, 1289 Horses, 520 Seasickness cure, 152
Copper exports, 312
Copyright, protection of, 196, 1226
Corn imports, 152
Cost of Living Commission, 1395, 2625 Country Harbour gas buoy, 762 Courts. See Justice Coutts quarantine area, 150 Cream exports, 294
Criminal Code Amendment Bills, lr., 47,205. 2r., 284, 304. Ref. to select Com., 476. Com., 1218.	3r., 1291. Sen. amdts.,
Crothers, Hon. Thos. W. (Minister of Labour)
Cost of Living Commission, 2625 Labour
British Columbia, troubles in, 497 Department
Estimates, 481-498, 501-503 Staff and salaries, 481, 502 Disputes, settlement of, 494 Employment bureaux, 485-490 Farm labourers, distribution of, 490 Grand Trunk Pacific railway, conditions on, 498
Railway construction and labour, 502 Railway employees, voting of, 2504 South Wellington mine disaster, 207 Technical education, 495, 502
Crothers, Hon. Thos. W. (Minister of Labour)
-Con.
Labour-Con.
Telegraphers, conditions of employment of, 2532
Unemployment, 483, 493, 501 Wages
Payment of, 498 War contracts, on, 490, 503 Welland canal, on, 492 Cumberland rural mail, 1649 Customs
Agricultural implements, valuation of, 605 Alert, revenue steamer, 231 Department
Appointments and dismissals, 218-222,228 Employees in war service, 217 Staff and salaries, 217-230 Fraudulent importation of horses, 229 Investigations, 611 Smuggling, alleged, 222 See Taxation
Customs Tariff War Revenue Bill. Res., 89, 1150, 1168. lr., 1217.	2r., 1400. Com.,
1400.	3r., 1405. See Budget, Special
War Revenue Bill, and Taxation Dagneau, John, employment of, 1866 Dairying Industry, See Agriculture. Davidson, Mr. Avard L. (Annapolis)
French, Field Marshal, 1446 Davidson, W. W., employment of, 768 Delisle, Mr. Michel S. (Portneuf)
Dorion, C. N., employment of, 521 Government reports in French, 828 National Transcontinental railway Portneuf claims, 993 Quebec terminals, 993 Quebec county telegraph service, 1187, 2122 St. Gilbert de Portneuf postmaster, 307 War supplies Horses, 520 Motor trucks, 1186
Demers, Mr. M. Joseph (St. John and Iberville)
Allison, J. Wesley, services of, 1145 Horses, embargo on, 150 Adulteration of maple sugar, 1798 Montreal postal station, 1651, 2528 Descarries, Mr. Joseph R. (Jacques Cartier) Budget, 1022
Canada's share in the war, 1023 Expenditures and taxation, 1024 Devlin, Mr. Emmanuel B. (Wright)
Civil Service reform, 895
Dominion elections-hours of polling, 1911
Georgian Bay canal, 1971
Volume i:	1-944
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Volume iii:	1785-2628
X
[Stage Direction]
Devlin, Mr. Emmanuel B. (Wright)-Con. Hull
Inland revenue service, 1871 Post office repairs, 1985 Mica duties, 830 Ottawa-Hull Postal rate, 766
Town-planning commission, 766 Patent medicines, 1717 Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 659
Doherty, Hon. C. J. (Minister of Justice) Aliens
Assistance to, 1218 Registration of, 1734 Canadians in California, status of, 1190 Canadian patriotic fund, 204, 393 Capital punishment, 264 Controverted elections, 1920, 1994-2030, 214S Copyright, 201, 1226 Criminal Code amendments Aliens, assistance to, 1218, 2053 Bawdy house, inmate of-penalty, 1227 Committee, select, on, 476 Dramatic copyright, infringement of, 1226
Military stores, fraud in sale of, 305, 1226 Real estate titles, fraudulent, 285, 1220 Doherty, Hon. C. J., pension of, 209, 1727 Dominion elections Hours of polling, 1915 M. for select com., 205	[DOT]
Railway employees, voting of, 2499, 2501, 2502
Voters' lists, 1895 Dominion police, 1732 Exchequer Court Expenses, 1731 Reports, 1730
Expropriations at Valcartier and Three Rivers, 1739
Insurance companies-licenses, 1247, 1399 Judges
Additional, for British Columbia and Alberta, 1428 Militia, in active, 1728 Salaries of, 1732
Superannuations in Quebec, 1186 Justice Department estimates, 1727, 2186 Maple sugar adulteration, 1793 Parliament, members of Active service, on, 351, 440 Government contracts, and, 2143, 2145 Parliamentary representation, 1788, 1929, 1994
Penitentiaries
Kingston
Management, 1775
Release of Thomas Riley, 2259
Doherty, Hon. C. J. (Minister of Justice)- Con.
Penitentiaries-Con.
Prison reform, 1775 Ticket-of-leave system, 1736 Soldiers, votes for, 1643, 1874, 2195, 2229, 2259-2294, 2343-2364, 2462-2528, 25332538, 2625.
Solicitor General, office of, 1736 Supreme Court Expenses, 1730
Jurisdiction-appeal in provincial election cases, 1988, 2053 '
Winding-up Act amendment, 2121, 2195
Doherty, Hon. C. J., judicial pension of, 209, \	808, 987, 1727
Dominion Controverted Elections Act Amendment Bill, lr., 1714.	2r., 1920.
Com., 1920, 1994, 2148.	3r„ 2154. See
Supreme Court Act Amendment Bill
Dominion Elections Act Amendment Bill, lr., 1714.	2r., 1895. Com., 1895, 2139.	3r„
2148. Select Com., 205. See 1527, 1929
Dominion lands and parks, 231, 1894
Dominion Notes Bill. Res., 1528. lr., 1539. 2r„ 1653. Com., 1653. 3r., 1653. See 146, 479.
Dominion police. See Justice
Dominion Trust Company, 519
Dominions, overseas Peace terms, and, 2627 Status of, 439
Dorion, C. N., employment of, 521
Douglas, Mr. James (Strathcona)
Agricultural literature, 2082 Calmar-Telfordville mails, 1187, 1376 Camrose, public building for, 1979 Edmonton, Dunvegan and British Columbia Railway Company, 723 Homesteaders' wood rights, 1560 Kiilam mail route, 244 Mclnnes, T. R. E., employment of, 1864 Nice, Mr., employment of, 1991 Oil lease, George McRae, 243 Pope land lease, 993 Ribstone, village of, patent of, 243 Seed grain distribution, 1281 Strathcona postal service, 1376 Wainwright park, 236 War supplies * Horses 898, 1234 Overshoes, 762
Wetaskawin settlers, grievances of, 1560, 1565, 1566
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[Stage Direction]
xi
Dredging. See Public works Drill halls. See Militia
Duchemin, H. P., payments to, 604, 667, 948
Duck Mountain
Homesteaders, 992 Timber reserve, 1577
East Erinville post office, 519 Edmonton
Public building, 2044 Rifle range, 1552
Edwards, Mr. John W. (Frontenac) Barriefield military road, 1515 Budget, 458
Government dismissals, 459 Government administration and expenditure, 459
Trade conditions, 462 The United States market, 463 Tariff increases, 464 British preference, 464 Tariff on agricultural implements, 467 The war crisis, 469 Cement duty, 469 Capital punishment, 136 Cheese inspection, 513 Dismissals, government, 459, 1366 Experimental farms, 2063 Farmers' relief, 1240 Hog cholera, 1286 Hughes, Major W. S., 435 Meat inspection, 2090 Parcel post, 1384 Patent shovel shield, 1236 Royal Military College, 1519 Penitentiaries
Kingston, 136, 515, 1740, 1773 Release of Thomas Riley, 2459 Stoney Mountain, 390, 1185
Electric smelting. See Mines Emigration to United States, 242 Employment bureau. See Labour Escuminac wharf, 1287
Estimates. See titles of departments and subjects
Eureka, steamer, 1265, 1268
Exchequer Court. See Justice
Excise, 1717
Exhibitions, 2085, 2109
Experimental farms. See Agriculture
Explosives. See Mines
External Affairs, Department of, 2314, 2318
Farmers Bank, depositors of, 391
Farmers' relief. See Western farmers, also Richmond county
Farquhar, Colonel, death in action of, 1283 Fenian raid bounty, 242, 1545, 1651 Ferguson, Mr. T. R., report of. See Interior Finance
Charges of management, 1715 ( Expenditure of Canada, 435, 764 Revenue of Canada, 152
Finance Act, 1914-proclamation continued, 476
Fish and Fisheries
Advisory board, 1270
American vessels, regulation of, 1650
Behring sea claims, 239
Bounties, 94
Breeding, 1278
Departmental estimates, 1270-1280, 1643
Exhibit at Toronto, 1277
" Fish and How to Cook It "-booklet, 239
Grants to fishermen, 2123
>Herrings-regulation of prices, 1786
Hudson bay fisheries, 1280
Inspection, 48, 1271, 1279
Licenses, issue of, 1275, 2302
Lobsters
Close season, 45 Hatcheries, 1278 Seed, 309 Undersized, 1150 Officers, 1270	_
Oyster culture, 1275 Pickled fish, 48, 1278 Protection service, 1622 Quebec, in province of, 994 Reduction works, 633, 767 Shell-fish commission, 607 Steam trawling, 243, 246, 311, 312, 1622, 2305
Tidal waters, fisheries in, 116, 1270 Transportation, 80, 1494
Fisher, Captain E., employment of, 517
Fisher, Mr. J. H. (Brant)
Budget, 817
Expenditures on public works, 817 Made-in-Canada movement, 818 Indian Department, 819 Votes for soldiers, 819	.
Flour, Canada's gift of, to Great Britain, 1646
Food
Exports, government control of, 526, 556 Inspection, 2090
Foot and mouth disease, 611, 2053, 2087
Volume i:	1-944
Volume ii:	945-1783
Volume iii:	1785-2628
[Stage Direction]


Forest reserves, 233, 1579
Fort Erie shooting case, 143, 332
Fort Will iam harbour improvements, 19701975
Foster, Mr. Arthur De Witt (King's, N.S.) Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 674 War supplies-horses, 629, 1033 Yarmouth harbour, 1289
Foster, Hon. Sir George E. (Minister of Trade and Commerce)
Belgian relief, 1676
Bounties on lead and petroleum, 1936
Budget, 999
The war and party co-operation, 999 Canada's finances, 1001 Protection or free trade and revenue, 1003, 1011	'
Financial inheritances of the Government, 1004
Methods of taxation, 1006 The tariff, 1008 British preference, 1009 Canada's part in the war, 3 012 Canada Year Book, 1938 Civil Service appointments, 1872 Customs valuations, 1404 Freight rates, ocean, lake and river. 215 Gold and silver marking, 1875 Grain Act
Administration of, 1939-1954 Amendment Bill, 1644, 2191, 2532 House of Commons Easter adjournment, 1645 Government business, 1787 Nickel export, 1937 Pit props, trade in, 1934 Steamship services, 1291. See that title Trade and Commerce, 212, 1291, 1931. See that title War
Appropriations, 1664, 1670 Supplies
Committee of Council on, 1666 Communications from Canadian Manufacturers' Association, 1668
Foster, W. G., employment of, 898
Fournier, L. H., employment of, 521
Fowler, Mr. George W. (King's and Albert) Controverted elections, 1925 Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 669
Fraser river, removal of obstructions in, 2303
Fraserville harbour, 392
Fredericton land expropriation, 168, 1475
Freight rates
Lake and ocean, supervision of, 215, 351 Inland navigation, control of, 43, 249
French Canadians
Civil Service, in, 985, 2318
Military service, in, 1149, 1442, 1445, 2189
French language
Blue books in
Printing and distribution, 1596, 2310 Translation, 504
Department of Agriculture, in, 2077 War stamps in, 1205
French river improvements, 1991 French, Sir John, 1'iekl Marshal, 1443 French Treaty and war taxes. See Taxation
Fripp, Mr. Alfred E. (Ottawa)
Votes for soldiers, 334
Fu rois, E., employment of, 1993
Gallon, W. J., employment of, 831
Garland, Mr. W. F. (Carleton, Ont.)
War contracts, 947
Gas inspection, 508, 1720 Gaspe
Deferred elections in, 1903, 2147 Purchase of war supplies in, 994 Railways, 518 Salmon fisheries, 116, 2302 Steamer service, 307, 833, 1286, 1301
Gaspe Bay anchorage, 998, 1449
Gauthier, Mr. Louis J. (St. Hyacinthe) Budget, 586
Criticism of the Government, 587 Party truce and the war, 688 Taxation and protection, 589 British preference, 589 St. Denis rural mails, 993 War supplies-waterproofs, 609
Gauvreau, Chas., employment of, 390
Gauvreau, Mr. Charles A. (Temiscouata) Auclair expropriation, 1729 Fraserville harbour, 392 Intercolonial railway
Gutelius, Mr. F. P., 141, 309 Hay, cutting of, 1710 Ice contracts, 79 Riviere du Loup shops, 141 Lake Temiscouata postal service, 79 Louisville Mails, 1288
Public building, 1288, 1459
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[Stage Direction]
xiii
Gauvreau, Mr. C. A. (Temiscouata)-t!on.
Mal4cit§ Indians, 1308 Menace newspaper, 991 Mousseau, P. A., employment of, 1992, 2122 Temiscouata postal service, 392 Genest, A., employment of, 767, 1185, 1368 Geological survey. See Mines Georgian Bay Canal commission, 1145, 2183 German, Mr. William M. (Welland) Admiralty court procedure, 1732 Bank loans for seed grain, 1245 Canadian patriotic fund, 1309 Controverted elections, 2000, 2010, 2016, 2152 Point Abino signal service, 1256
Soldiers, votes for, 2246, 2259, 2287, 2345, 2464, 2506
Solicitor General, office of, 1735, 1738 Taxation-patent medicines, 1423 War supplies Bicycles, 995 Boots, 315
Welland canal, wages on, 491 Gilbert, Arthur, employment of, 1787, 1993 Gillis, A. B., employment of, 831
Girard, Mr. Joseph (Chicoutimi and Saguenay)
Agriculture in Quebec, 2073 Glass, Mr.' S. Francis (East Middlesex) Budget, 913
Tremendous effect of the war, 913 Patriotism and production, 914 Credits for farmers, 916 Reciprocity with the United States, 917 Conditions of trade and finance, 919 Canada's share in the war, 922 British preference, 923 Immigration, 924
Dominion elections-hours for voting, 1910 Privilege-the member for West Lambton, 2460
Gobeil, A., employment of, 895, 1458, 1962 Gold and Silver Marking Bill, lr., 1645. 2r., 1875. Com., 1875.	3r., 1876.
Gordon, Mr. David A. (East Kent) Wallaceburg customs collector, 766 Government Railways Purchase Bill. Res., 1539. lr., 1544.	2r„ 1681. Com., 1681.
3r., 1685.
Graham, Hon. George P. (South Renfrew) Bank loans for seed grain, 1349 Budget, 1130
Party co-operation and the war, 1130 Public expenditure and the late Government, 1132
Graham, Hon. G. P. (South Renfrew)-Con. Budget-Con.
Railway obligations-Canadian Northern hnd National Transcontinental, 1133 Reduction of expenditure, 1136 War taxes or not, 1137 British preference, 1140 Cadet corps, 1518 Capital punishment, 136, 137 Cardinal canal Removal of houses, 832 Statistical officer, 832
Civil Service-temporary appointments, 1871
Coal imports, 633, 828 Coliingwood Shipbuilding Company, 519 Dairying industry, 2081 Pood exports, government control of, 554 Georgian Bay canal, 966 Commission, 2183 Horse breeding, 2105
House of Commons stenographers, employment of, during recess, 1360 Hudson Bay railway, 436, 631 Intercolonial railway Expenditures, 1492 Halifax terminals, 1689 Level crossings, 1688
Kingston penitentiary-employment of Mr. Begg, 828
Morris, F., employment of, 151 National Transcontinental railway Construction expenditure, 1859 Government operation, 1802, 1841, 2124, 2134
Quebec terminals, 606 Ocean freight rates, 751 Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 2144
Pollution of navigable waters, 124 Public health, conservation of, 2107 Railway capitalization, 289 Richards, James W., M.P., death of, 827 St. Thomas armoury, 1866 Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 681 Soldiers, votes for, 336, 2262, 2274, 2350 Trent canal-claim of Cory & Laverdure, 1712 War
Appropriations, 1667 Canadians, enlistment of, 1447 Members of parliament on active service, 439
Supplies
Canadian Manufacturers' Association, communications from, 1667, 2189, 2461 Clothing, 2531 Salisbury Plain, at, 306
Volume i:	1 -944
Volume ii:	945-1783
Volume iii:	1785-2628
[Stage Direction]


Grain	'
Administration of Act, 1939-1957 Amendment Bill. lr., 1644.	2r.,	2030.
Com., 2030. 3r., 2191.
Distillation of, 2624
Granby mail service, 905
Grand Trunk Pacific railway [DOT]
Expenditures on, 437, 1864 Labour conditions on, 498
See National Transcontinental railway
Gray, William (London)
Canadians in California, 1189 Dominion elections-hours of polling, 1908 South Wellington mine disaster, 207 Transportation of Canadian forces, 763
Green, Mr. Robert F. (Kootenay)
Edmonton, Dunvegan and British Columbia Railway Company, 721 Real estate titles, fraudulent, 1222
Gutelius, Mr. F. P„ 141, 309, 1483, 1489
Guysborough
Branch railways.- See Intercolonial
Fishery guardians, 313
Mail service, 519, 607, 633, 897, 1185
Half-breed scrip, 1287
Haliburton, recruiting at, 896
Halifax
Chartered steamers, 1647 Customs night watchman, 831 Military headquarters staff, 1514 Permanent force, supplies for, 2529 Public Works, 1458 Terminals, 764, 1688
Halifax and Eastern railway, 1466 Hall, R. P., appointment of, 763 Harbours. See Public works Hawkesbury-Grenville bridge, 1648, 1992, 2176
Hazen, Hon. J. D. (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)
Cheticamp life-saving station, 1635 Dredging, 1252 Fish and Fisheries Advisory board, 1270 Breeding, 1278 Departmental officers, 1270 Exhibit at Toronto, 1277 " Fish and How to Cook It "-booklet, 239 Grants to fishermen, 2301 Licenses, issue of, 116, 1275,' 2302
Hazen, Hon. J. D. (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)-Com.
Oyster culture, 1275 Protection service, 1622 Steam trawling, 1622, 1624, 2305 Tidal waters, fisheries in, 1270 Fraser river obstructions, removal of, 2303 Hudson bay Fisheries, 1280 .Hydrographic surveys, 1626 Navigation, 1627
Karluk, steamer. Sec Stefansson LeBianc, seaman, 1642 Live-stock inspection, 348 Marine
British ships, transfer of, 1057 Coasting trade, 299 Government steamers, 312, 338, 1255 Hydrographic surveys, 1626 Ice breaking, 339, 1255, 1267 Life-saving service, 351, 1633 Lighthouse and coast service, 1256-1260, 1267
Maritime road, 1267
Masters and mates, examination of, 340 Navigation Aids to, 1258 Obstructions to, 347, 2303 Schools of, 346 Pilotage, 1265
St. Lawrence ship channel, 1252 Seamen, sick and distressed, 1269 Shipping casualties m 1914, 833 Signal service, 1264 Steamboat inspection, 1270 Unseaworthy vessels, 345 Wrecking plants, 349 Wrecks, investigations into, 342 Marine and Fisheries estimates, 338-350, 1252-1280
Naval service, 237, 1612, 1654, 2298 Navigable waters, pollution of, 121 New Brunswick shale industry, 1608 Northern waters, patrol of, 1631, 2298 Parliamentary representation, 2332 Prince Edward Island winter mail service, 348
Quebec Harbour Commission-resignation of Sir William Price, 1966 Richard, Mrs. Margaret, claim of, 1642 St. John custom house, 1982 Shelburne fishery inspector, 1271 Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 642 Stefansson expedition, 1631, 1632, 229S Submarines, purchase of, 100 United States flag, alleged flying of, on wireless station, 1617 Wireless telegraphic service, 1263
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Volume iii:	1785-2628

[Stage Direction]
Hepburn, Mr. B. R. (Prince Edward, Ont.)
Steamboat rates, 257
Higenbotham, E. N„ dismissal of, 1364 High Commissioner, Canadian, 391, 2318 Homesteaders' wood rights, 1560 Horn, Werner, extradition of, 44, 79 Horses
Export to the United States, 150, 1230 Breeding, 2103
Fraudulent importation of, 229 See War supplies House of Commons Business of the House, 206, 687, 1187 Committees, select standing, 74 Deputy Speaker, election of, 41 Easter adjournment, 1645 Members
Active service, on. See Senate and House of Commons Government contracts, and, 1242, 2139 Indemnity of, 2309
Officials, appointment of, 144, 1526 1863 2258
Heading room, taking of papers from, 611 Representation. See .House of Commons Representation Act Amendment Bill, Parliamentary representation, and Prince Edward Island Sessional employees, 2109 Stenographers, post-sessional employment of, 1360
Voters' lists, preparation of, 1594	2111
House of Commons Representation Act Amendment Bill (correction of clerical errors). lr„ 1557.	2r„ 1788. Com.,
1788, 1929, 1994. 3r., 1994.
Hudson bay Fisheries, 1280 Hydrographic surveys, 1626 Navigation, 1627 Hudson Bay railway Construction, 436, 1861 Cost of mileage, 631, 1148 Le Pas bridge, closing of, 606 Wages of employees, 1395 Hughes, Major W. S., appointment of, 435 Hughes, Mr. James J. (King's, P.E.I.) Brudenell wharf, 2114 Budget, 1027
Financial administration, 1028 Taxation, prosperity, and revenue, 1029 Governments and expenditures, 1030 Civil service administration, 1032 War contracts, 1033
Hughes, Mr. James J. (King's, P.E.I.)- Con.
Cardigan-Annandale mail service, 1648 Charlottetown Harbour, 2114
School of navigation for, 347 Controverted elections, 2013 Cost of Living Commission, 1395 Drill halls, use of, 2036 Earl Grey, steamer, sale of, 312 Enlistment from the active militia, 1456 Fenian raid bounty, 1545 Food exports, government control of, 543 House of Commons reading room, 611 Liquors and tobaccos in bond, 314 Little Sand breakwater, 2117 North lake harbour, 2114 Potatoes, exportation of, 1229, 2078 Prince Edward Island Mail service, 348, 1378, 1385 Marine life-saving service, 351, 1637 Parliamentary representation, 316, 331 Public works, 2114 Railway, 1704, 1707 Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 673 Souris life-saving station, 1637 Taxation-cheques, 1203
Hughes, Hon. Major General Sam (Minister of Militia and Defence)
Allison, J. Wesley, services of, 1145, 1452, 1508, 1669
Ammunition, purchase of, 1451-1455, 15061512, 1669, 1867 Aviation, 1989
Boots, army, purchase of, 2455 Cadet corps, 1518
- Canadian troops in the firing line, 613 Censorship, 1448 Dominion arsenal, 1506 Duty on imported munitions, 1506 Edmonton rifle range, 1553 Engineer services, 1513 Enlistment. See Recruiting Fenian raid bounty, 1546 French Canadians, enlistment of, 1442, 1445, 1447
Haliburton recruiting, 896
Halifax headquarters staff, 1515
Home guards, 1516
Militia estimates, 1428, 1496, 1544
Motor trucks, purchase of, 1146
Nova Scotia military forces, 1396, 1436
Permanent force, Canadian, 1515
Prince Rupert Rifles, disbandment of, 1522
Recruiting, 438, 1680, 1989
Rifle ranges, 1553
Robertson, Struan, Lt. Col., 1396, 1436
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Volume ii:	945-1723
Volume ili:	1785-2628
[Stage Direction]


Hughes, Hon. Major General Sam (Minister of Militia and Defence)-Con.
Royal Military College, 1522 Salisbury Plain, supplies at, 439 Schools of military instruction, 1524 Shooting by sentries, 2124 Training camps, 1457 Valcartier
Camp, 1514, 1553 Land claims, 523, 1513, 1549 War
Appropriations, 1662 Supplies. See that title
[Stage Direction]
Inland revenue service, 1871 Post office repairs, 1985
Hydrographic surveys. See Marine
Ice-breaking. See Marine
Immigration
Agencies, 1558-1562 Inspection, 233 Officials suspended, 243 Oriental, 1576 Philadelphia agent, 522 Statistics, 1147
Indians
Blood reserve, 763, 1323 British Columbia, 1324, 1892 Department estimates, 1306-1328 Education, 1325 New Brunswick, 1317
North West Provinces and Territories, 1319-1324, 1876
Ontario and Quebec, 1306-1309, 1328 Nova Scotia, 1310, 1325 St. Peter's reserye, 1320, 1877 Tobique reserve, 187 Trust fund, 1327
Industrial disputes. See Labour
Inland Revenue Amendment Bills
Temporary officials, appointment of. lr., 1644. Res., 1868. 2r„ 1874. Com., 1874, 3r., 1994
Transfer of excise goods in bond, lr., 1644. 2r„ 1868. Com., 1868. 3r„ 1868
Inland Revenue Department
Deputy Minister, 438, 1723 Estimates, 503-513, 1717-1723, 2313 Staff and salaries, 503, 1717
Insect pests. See Agriculture
Insurance
Amendment Bill (renewable term policies), lr., 351
Companies Extension of Time Bill. Res., 1246. lr., 1249.	2r„ 1399. Com., 1399.
3r., 1400. See Taxation Department, 1716
Intercolonial railway
Abutment contracts, 895, 1286 Atlantic sugar refinery site, 150 Bathurst spur, 46 Block signals, 1690 Boulay, Messrs., employment of, 2530 Branch lines in eastern Nova Scotia, 44, 519, 992, 1467, 1473-1483, 1700 Bridges
Strengthening of, 1492 Substructures of, 897 Watchmen on, 608, 763 Cape Breton facilities, 1699 Cement posts, contracts for, 309 ChaudiOre employees, 1785 Coal tenders, 769, 1147, 1688 Courtenay bay spur line, 1698 Eastern extension land damages, 1469 Employees on military service, 217, 245 Envelopes, importation of, 896 Equipment, 1698
Estimates, 1472-1495, 1685-1704, 1706 Fish transportation, 80, 1494 Fredericton land expropriation, 168, 1475 Freight rates and trains, 156 French-speaking employees, 1485 German spy, suspected, 610 Ice contracts, 79, 311 Levis station, 831 Management, 1483-1493 Moncton
Death claim-Mrs O'Rourke, 1475 Improvements, 1397, 1691 Mulgrave car ferry, 1693 Operation, 1472, 1706 Prince Edward Island car ferry, 1473 Pugwash spur line, 391, 1693 Quebec, solicitor for, 1708 Receipts and expenditures, 143 Riviere du Loup shops, 141 Rolling stock, 1695
Sackville improvements, 606, 1693, 1706
Safety appliances, 1698
Shims, contracts for, 768	^
Ties, contracts for, 309
Union station culvert, 608
Wallace spur, 391, 1694
See Government Railways Purchase Bill.
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[Stage Direction]
Interior Department	.
Estimates, 231-237, 1281, 1558-1585, 1893 Ferguson, Mr. T. R„ report of, 2539 Staff, salaries, etc., 232, 1558, 1570
International railway service, 1470 Iron
Imports, 244 Ores, 309, 2313
Jameson, Mr. Clarence (Digby)
Unsea worthy vessels, 345
Johnston, J. W., employment of, 608
Jordan East breakwater, 390
Judges Act Amendment Bill. Res., 1428. lr., 1428.	2r., 1544. Com., 1544.	3r., 1544.
Justice
Admiralty court procedure, 1732 Department estimates, 1727, 2186 Dominion police, 1732 Exchequer Court Expenses, 1731 Reports, 1730 Judges
Militia, in active, 1728 Pensions, 765, 1727 Salaries, 1732
Superannuation in Quebec, 1186 Solicitor General, office of, 1735 Supreme Court Expenses, 1730
Jurisdiction-appeal in provincial election cases, 1988, 2053
Kamouraska lighthouse, 897
Karluk, steamer. See Stefansson
Kay, Mr. William F. (Missisquoi)
Cream exports, 294 Krans, J., employment of, 1185, 1286 Maple sugar, adulteration of, 1785 Philipsburg-St. Armand mail service, 249, 313, 995
Rural mail carriers, payment of, 2297 Soldiers, votes for, 2255 Stanbridge rural mail service, 995
Kelly, E., employment of, 241
Kemp, Hon. A. E. (East Toronto)
Dominion elections-hours for polling, 1908
Killam mail route, 244 Kiliarney and Manitowaning mails, 898 Kingston penitentiary. See Penitentiaries Kitsilano Indian reserve, 1892
Knowles, Mr. William E. (Moosejaw)
Exchequer Court reports, 1730 Experimental farms, 2057, 2061, 2071 Gold and silver marking, 1875 Homestead entries, cancellation of, 1868 Inland Revenue Department appointments, 1870
Soldiers, votes for, 2262, 2267
Krans, J., employment of, 1185, 1286
Kyte, Mr. George W. (Richmond, N. S.) Arichat mail service, 1184, 1372 Bank borrowings from Government, 147 Bourgeois river-Cannes mail service, 1389 Budget, 449
Canada and the war, 449 Government's financial record, 450 Economic conditions, 451 Cement duty, 452 Civil service, 452 Revenue and expenditure, 454 Fishermen and the tariff, 455 The war taxes, 457 Capital punishment, 138
Customs Department dismissals and appointments, 219, 222, 898 Dominion elections, 1912 Dominion notes, 146
Fenian raid bounty-claims of widows, 1545
Fishing bounties, 94
Food exports, government control of, 547 Gobeil, A, employment of, 895, 1458, 1962 Grandigne Ferry mail service, 1184, 1372 Haliburton recruiting, 896 Intercolonial railway
Atlantic sugar refinery site, 150 Eastern Nova Scotia branch lines and extensions, 992 Management, 1490, 1493 Johnston, J. W., employment of, 608 Loans, Imperial Government, to Canada, 146 Mail carriers, pay of, 1371 -
Nova Scotia
Indians, 1310, 1312, 1317, 1325 Military forces, 481, 561, 687, 1396, 1428 Postal service, 900, 1389 Parliamentary representation of Maritime Provinces, 325 Richmond county
Customs service, 219, 222, 228 Railways, 992
Robertson, Lt.-Col. See Nova Scotia military forces
St. Paul's Island life-saving station, 608
Squid imports, 244
Steam trawling, 1622
Trent Canal commission, 632
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[Stage Direction]
xviii
Kyte, Mr. George W. (Richmond, N.S.)-Con.
War supplies Binoculars, 2188 Medical, 149, 1866 [DOT]
West Arichat customs, 898
Labour
British Columbia troubles, 497 Department
Estimates, 481-498, 501-503 Staff and salaries, 481, 497, 502 Disputes, settlement of, 245, 297, 494, 501 Employment bureau, national, 352, 484490, 607
Fair wages in government contracts, 240, 391
Farm labourers, distribution of, 490 Grand Trunk Pacific Railway, employees of, 498
Railway construction, inspection of, 502 Telegraphers, conditions of employment of, 1786, 2532
Unemployment, 308, 483, 492, 605, 2320 Wages
Payment of, 498
War contracts, on, 38, 40, 240, 490, 503 Welland canal, on, 491
Lachance, Mr. Arthur (Quebec Centre) Foreigners, deportation of, 2122 Lauzon dry dock, 1866 Montmagny, wreck of, 1867 National Transcontinental railway-Quebec terminals, 1818, 1867 War supplies-sheepskins, 1866
Lafortune, Mr. David A. (Montcalm)
Budget, 1033 Nationalists, 1034 School question^ 1039, 1049 Tobacco culture, 1041 Agriculture, 1041
Highways, 1046	,
Bankruptcy law, 1047 Exhibitions, 1047 Cattle embargo, 1048 Insolvency Act, 1048 Capital punishment, 276 Montcalm postal service, 1385 Privilege-report in Montreal Gazette, 1057 St. Jacques l'Achigan public building, 2322
Lake St. John hydrographic work, 896 Lake Temiscouata postal service, 79 Lake of the Woods Technical Board, 1394
Lancaster, Mr. Edward A. (Lincoln and Niagara)
Canadian Northern Railway Company, 708, 758
Lancaster, Mr. Edward A. (Lincoln and
Niagara)-Con.
Edmonton, Dunvegan and British Columbia Railway Company, 705, 721 Life insurance-renewable term policies, 351
Private Bills
Senate amendments, 1371 Suspension of rules, 1527 Toronto Eastern Railway Company, 708 Van Buren Bridge Company, 709, 760 Vancouver Terminal Railway Company, 990
Lanctot, Mr. Roch (Laprairie-Napierville) Budget, 804
Canada's participation in the war, 804 The war taxation, 805 Government extravagance, 806 Expenditures on public works, 807 Payments to Mr. Bergeron, Mr. Ferguson and the Minister of Justice, 808 Doherty, Hon. C. J., pension of, 808, 1727 Furois, Eugene, employment of, 1993 Gauvreau, C., employment of, 390 Grand Trunk Pacific expenditure, 437 Judges' pensions, 1727	[DOT]
Laprairie protection works, 437, 2156 Laprairie-Napierville rural mail service, 1380
Montreal resident engineer, 437 Pelletier, Hon. L. P., trip of, 2529 Pettet, W. V., employment of, 2123 Quebec bridge, 437 Rhoda, steamer, 2531 St. Lambert post office, 1648
Land speculation. See Real estate
Lapointe, Mr. Ernest (Kamouraska)
Audette, L., employment of, 2122 Cardin, E., employment of, 1993 Charbonneau, Rodrique, employment of, 610
French, war stamps in, 1204 lie de Kamouraska light, 897 Intercolonial railway-envelopes, imported, 896
Lake St. John hydrographic work, 896 National Transcontinental railway Bridgekeepers, 897 Station employees, 1143 Quebec
Post office revenues, 896 Grain elevators, electric power for, 2123 Roy, F. X., employment of, 992 St. Anselme government employees, 1993 St. Germain de Kamouraska wharf, 2163 St. Mathieu dredging, 2173 Soldiers, votes for, 2507
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xix
Lapointe, Mr. Ernest (Kamouraska)-Con.
Taxation
Cheques, 1202 Spirituous liquors, 897 Theberge, J., employment of, 2529 Valcartier
Lighting, 2123 Lumber supplies, 2122 Vallge, L. O., dismissal of, 436
Lapointe, Mr. Louis A. (Montreal, St. James) Montreal barracks, 2035 War taxes, 1217
Laprairie protection works, 437, 2156 L'Assomption
Public employees from county of, 2528 Wharf, 1145
Last Mountain Lake dredging, 311
Laurier, Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid (Quebec East) Address in reply to Governor General's Speech
Progress of the war, 15 Significance of the struggle, 16 British sovereignty and the Dominions, 17
Conscription, 17
Canada's expenditure on the war, 18 War contract frauds, 18 Aeroplanes, reported appearance of, 144 Budget
Attitude of the Opposition, 834, 1065 Financial situation of the country, 836 The Government's financial policy, 836 Retrenchment and economy, 837 The new taxation-special taxes, 837 Taxation on railway travelling, 838 Customs tariff increases, 839 Taxes on British goods, 840 Proposed amendment, 841 Civil Service-speech of Mr. Adam Shortt, 634
Controverted elections, 1995, 2008, 2021 Dominion notes, 1536
Farquhar, Colonel, death in action of, 1283 Ferguson, T. R„ report of, 2568, 2620 Fort Erie shooting case, 332 High Commissionership, Canadian, 391 House of Commons
Bowles, W. C., resignation of, 1526 Business of the House, 206, 1188, 1787 Deputy Speaker, election of, 41 Easter adjournment, 1645 Intercolonial railway branch lines, 1540 Killarney-Little Current mail service, 898 Maple sugar, adulteration of, 1791 Ministerial changes, 208
Laurier, Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid (Quebec East) -Con.	.
National Transcontinental railway Construction, 1859
Government operation, 1813, 1842, 2127, 2138
Quebec terminals, 1860 Naval Service of Canada, 1661 Nova Scotia military forces-language of Minister of Militia, 1440 Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 2143, 2147 Parliamentary representation
House of Commons, 328, 1789, 1994 Senate, 1460, 2327, 2341 Pollution of navigable waters, 123 Privilege-Federal Press Agelncy leaflet, 2189
Railway employees, voting of, 2500 Seed grain, bank loans for, 1243 Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 634 Soldiers, votes for, 2206, 2280, 2348, 2360, 2464, 2484, 2524, 2536, 2627 Supreme Court jurisdiction-appeals in provincial election cases, 2054 Taxation Bananas, 1167 Corporations, 1192, 1196 Customs valuations, 1404 French Treaty, articles under, 1215, 1422 Insurance companies, 1178 Money orders, 1205 Penalties, 1586
Postal rates and stamp taxes, 1415 Railway tickets, 838, 1198, 1200 Spirits, 1153, 1156 Telegraphic messages, 1192, 1194 Valcartier land claims, 522, 1546, 1739, 2621 War
Expenditures, 1142, 1398 Supplies, purchase of, 144, 2617 See Address and Budget Lauzon dry dock, 1647, 1866, 1971 Lavergne, Armand, Lt.-Col., 1517 Law, Mr. Bowman B. (Yarmouth)
Amherst
Armoury, 389 Post office, 436 Budget, 820
Favourable to war appropriation, 820 Taxes and governmental extravagance, 820
Conservative party platform, 821 British preference, 823 Duties on fertilizers and feeds, 823 Postal rates, 824 Prohibition, liquor, 824 Chaplain to oversea forces, 242
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[Stage Direction]
Law, Mr. Bowman E. (Yarmouth)- Con.
Fish reduction works, 767
Fisher, Ward, fishery inspector, 1271
Indians, Nova Scotia
Claim of Dr. A. J. Deveau, 1314 Yarmouth agent, 1310 Jordan East breakwater, 390 Long Beach lobster pond, 309 Port Hawkesbury public building, 1981 Potato embargo, 719 Schools of navigation, 1260 Shelburne
Fishery inspector, 1271 Fog alarm, 389 Taxation
Fertilizers and feeds, 823, 1165 Letters and postcards, 1207 Newfoundland partridge berries, 1167 Toronto Home Guard, 243 War supplies-horses, 766, 898 Wrecking plants for Bay of Fundy, 350 Yarmouth
Cattle purchases in, 309 Fishery guardians, 313 Harbour, 607 Marine hospital, 832 Postal service, 313, 1361 Yarmouth-St. John steamship services, 1305
Le Blanc, seaman, 896, 1639 Lemieux, Hon. Rodolphe (Rouville)
Architect, Dominion chief, appointment of, 1958
Aylwin irrigation tract, 2571 Copyright, 196
Emigration to the United States, 242 Farmers Bank depositors, 391 Gobeil, A., employment of, 1965 Labour unemployment, 308 Mail bag locks, 46
Pelletier, Hon. L. P., testimonial to, 211 Prince of Wales fund and government loans, 244
Quebec and Saguenay railway, 2625 Quebec Harbour Commission-resignation of Sir William Price, 1965, 1966 Royal Society of Canada, accommodation for, 245 Soldiers
Free postage for, 338 Votes for, 2516
Taxation-patent medicines, 312 War supplies Boots, 48, 244 Canvas shoes, 389 Cartridges, 242 Medical, 308, 315 National Drug Company, 312 Slippers, 389
Leonardsviile dredging, 312 Lethbridge
Customs staff, 521
Field battery, 1646
Immigration inspector, 150, 1567
Postmastership, 143, 769, 1364
Wool storage,	828	i
Levis	'
Dry dock, 767	1
Quarantine station, 241, 1290 Shell factory, 519
Life-saving See Marine Liquor
Bonded, 314, 897 Inspection, 1720
Manufacture, suggested suspension of, 2327 Live stock. See Agriculture Livingstone, Charles P., appointment of, 150 Loans
Canadian Government, to banks, 147, 476 Imperial Government, to Canada, 146, 522
Lobsters. See Fisheries
Loggie, Mr. William S. (Northumberland, N.B.)
Budget
Reciprocal trade with United States, 925 Canada's part in the war, 925 Financial requirements, 925 Taxation proposals of Government, 926 Barbed wire, 927 Pork, 928
Raw materials, 928 British preference, 929 Chatham public building, 1982 Grain for distillation, 2624 Intercolonial railway
Chatham branch, 1493, 1685 Transportation of fish, 1494 Newcastle wireless station-alleged flying of United States flag, 1616 Soldiers, votes for, 2256
Longard, G E., employment of, 831 Longueuil, dredging at, 438 Louisville Mails, 1288
Post office building, 1288, 1459
Macdonald, Mr. Edward M. (Pictou) Address in reply to Governor General's Speech
Members of Parliament at the front, 36 Purchase of war supplies, 37 Fair wages and war contracts, 37 Newfoundland and Confederation, 39
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Macdonald, Mr. Edward M. (Pictou)-Con.
Alberta coal miners, unemployment among, 494
British Columbia militiamen on active service, 151, 1544 Budget
Criticism of Government* 1103 The Minister of Trade and Commerce and the Budget, 1105 Proposed taxation not for war, 1106 Borrowings, from England, 1106 Liberal administration, 1108 The Minister of finance, tariff and expenditures, 1108
National Transcontinental and Canadian Northern railways, 1111 British preference, 1111 Naval question, 1113 Political parties and the war, 1114 Canadian Pacific railway ocean services, 747
Canadian patriotic fund, 398 Cariboo Island breakwater, 308 Coal
Areas in Nova Scotia, 1609 Lands, government, leases of, 1611 Controverted elections, 2002 Dominion elections, 1908 Expenditure of Canada, 435 Fair wages, 490. See Address Fenian raid bounty, 242 Indians, Nova Scotia, 1310, 1313 Industrial Disputes Investigation Act, amendment of, 245
Inland Revenue Department, administration of, 503
Insurance companies-extensions of time, 1248
Intercolonial railway Branch lines, 1477 Bridge watchmen, 608 Claim of Mrs. Higgins, 1477 Coal tenders, 1147 Pictou harbour bridge, 1477 Receipts and expenditures, 143 Train service, 142, 167 Union station culvert, 608 Liquor manufacture, suggested suspension ' of, 2327
Macdonald, Wm, employment of, 1288 McLeod, J. W., employment of, 896 McNeil, Wm., employment of, 1648 Members of Parliament on active service, 36, 439
Naval service, 1621. See Budget New Glasgow
Dredge pontoons, cost of hauling, 1992 Mails, 517
Macdonald, Mr. Edward M. (Pictou)i- Con.
Nova Scotia Coal areas, 1609 Indians, 1310
Military forces, 608, 1434, 1499 Parliamentary representation, 2338 Patents, renewal of, 1261 Pictou (county) .
Fishery guardians, 245 Mail service, 244, 610, 995, 1288, 1458, 2123, 2188, 2297
Medical examiners for volunteers, 762 Pictou (town) winter freight handling, 246 Pictou Island telephone service, 143, 1258 Pit props, trade in, 1934 Prince Rupert Rifles, disbandment of, 1522
Real estate titles, fraudulent, 1222 Revenue of Canada, 152 River John customs sub-collectorship, 142 Shortt, Mir. Adam, speech of, 676 Soldiers, votes for, 2251, 2476, 2484, 2505, 2533
Stellarton public building, 763 Suckling, Rev. W. T., military chaplain, 1867
Taxation-cheques, 1409 Technical education, 245, 495, 496 United States flag, alleged flying of, at wireless station, 1618 Yale railway, 245 War supplies Boots, 2430
Fair wages and war contracts, 37, 490 Horses, 388, 520, 894, 994, 2123 Oliver equipment, 1992 Wireless stations, control of, 1618
Macdonell, Mr. A. C. (Toronto, South) Budget, 367
Answers to Opposition critics, 367 A satisfactory budget, 369 War loans and taxation, 371 Protection and British preference, 373 Public debt and expenditures, 375 Opportunities for Canada's trade, 377 Dominion elections.-hours of polling, 1903, 1914
Soldiers, votes for, 2249 Vancouver Terminal Company, 1262
Maclean, Mr. Alexander K. (Halifax)
Banks, Government advances to, 478 Budget, 352
The war supply, 352 Ordinary revenue and expenditure, 353 Government's pre-election pledges, 354 Expenditures by departments, 355 Methods of meeting expenditures, 360 Buy-in-Canada xoropaganda, 360
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Xxii
[Stage Direction]
Maclean, Mr. Alexander K. (Halifax)-Con. Budget-Con.
Falling imports and revenues, 360 Tariff taxation, 362 'British preference, 364 AVool duty, 365 'Cotton, 366 Bituminous coal, 366 Economy versus taxation, 367 Coast Guard, steamer, 1866 Controverted elections, 1923, 2012, 2148 Dominion elections
Hours of polling, 1903, 1916 Railway men, voting of, 1903 Voters' lists, 1896
Dominion lands, administration of, 232
Dominion notes issue, 1534, 1653
Dredge No. \ 1866
Expenditures, public, 764, 1290
See Budget
Fish and fisheries
American vessels, regulation of, 1650 Modus vivendi licenses, 1275, 1277 Halifax and Eastern railway, 1466 Halifax
Chartered steamers, 1647 Customs night watchman, 831 Headquarters staff, 1514 Terminals, 764, 1688 Permanent force, 2529 House of Commons sessional employees, 2109
Humphrey Colonel, retirement of, 1514 Loans, Imperial Government, to Canada, 522
Longard. G. E., employment of, 831 Naval service, 1613 Niobe repairs, 151 -Noreen, steamer, 1396, 2188 Petite Riviere fishery guardian, 1396 Privilege-newspaper misrepresentation, 688 Robinson, G., employment of, 831 Royal Print and Lithographing Company, payments to, 1864 Shubenacadie post office, 1866 Taxation
Insurance companies, 1184 Telegraphic messages, 1193 Trade and Commerce, 1292 Atlantic ports, 1299 Cuban trade, 1294 Tufts Cove dry dock, 1647 Tyrian, steamer, 1786 Wade, Wr. W., dismissal of, 1395 War
Appropriation, 1662, 1676 Expenditures-reference to Public Accounts Committee, 945 West Indian trade, 1295
Maclean, Mr. William F. (South York, Ont.)
Address in reply to Governor General's Speech
Parliamentary' institutions and the war, 33
Menace to American democracy', 34 Evil of militarism, 35 Banking facilities in Canada, 1353 Dominion elections-hours of polling, 1905 Food exports, government control of, 544 Nickel, exportation of, 3, 78 Railways
Capitalization, control of, 78, 285, 726, 744, 756
Bridges, construction of, in towns and cities, 78, 285, 1150
Taxation-insurance companies, 1181 Transportation, 261
MacNutt, Mr. Thomas (Saltcoats)
Budget, 789
Increased taxation and the farmers, 790 Saskatchewan Grain Growers' Association resolutions, 792
Taxation of land values and income, 793 Objections to new tariff, 793 Customs valuation of agricultural implements, 605
Northwest coal leases, 1148 Peart, L., employment of, 308
McCoig, Mr. Archibald B. (West Kent, Ont.) Budget, 622
Kent county mail service, 622 Tax on fertilizers, 623 Agricultural implements, 624 Horse raising, 625 Hog cholera, 627 Taxation
Fertilizers, 1162, 1164'	,
Gravel and sand, 1163
McCraney, Mr. George E. (Saskatoon) Aberdeen Association-franking privilege, 1370
Alexander divorce bill, 1894, 1987, 2187 Bank loans for seed grain, 1352 Controverted elections, 2027 Customs tariff
Articles exempt from increased duties, 246
Valuation for duty, 605 Nova Scotians in the west, 1560 Public works, expenditures on, 1971, 2035 Real estate titles, fraudulent, 47, 284, 1223 Rosthern customs, 79 Saskatoon
Customs collector, 79 Public building, 2043
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xxiii
McCraney, Mr. George E. (Saskatoon)-Con. Rural mails, 607
Schrader grazing lease, 1560, 1562 Western farmers, relief for, 56
McCrea, Mr. Francis N. (Sherbrooke) Barachois wharf, 2185 Genest, A., employment of, 767, 1185, 1368 Live Stock Commissioner Giard, 2084 Pickel, G. H., employment of, 831 Horses for the war, 830
Sherbrooke mounted rifles, supplies for, 314, 1512
McCurdy, Mr. F. B. (Shelburne and Queens) Intercolonial Railway-Sunnybrae branch, 1479, 1481
Nova Scotia military forces, 1503 War supplies-boots, 2419
McDonald, D. A., employment of, 1186, 1!,'88 Mclnnes, T. R. E., employment of, 1864
McKenzie, Mr. D. D. (North Cape Breton) Alert, steamer, 223, 230, 1646 Behring sea fisheries claims, 239 Budget
Royal commissions, 975 Canada's share in the war, 976 Criticism of the Government, 977 The Government's financial administration, 978
National Transcontinental railway, 979 Canada's finances and the war, 981 Public works expenditure, 982 Controverted elections, 1922 Duchemin, H. P., payments to, 667, 948 Fenian raid bounty, 1546 Food exports, government control of, 54 ft French River breakwater, 2053 Gobeil, A., employment of, 1967 Grain trade, 1954 Ingonish
Fishermen, 350 Wharf, 2112 Intercolonial railway Branch lines, 1481, 1491 North Cape Breton requirements, 1699 Trains, 166
McDonald, D Ay, employment of, 1186, 1288 Masters and mates, examination of, 340 North Cape Breton
Bonded warehouses, 1650 Customs service, 221, 225 Rented government buildings, 1288, 2049 Telegraph lines, 2180 North Sydney public building, 1981 Nova Scotia
Postal service, 902
Telegraph and telephone service, 2180
McKenzie, Mr. D. D. (North Cape Breton) -Con.
Parliamentary representation of the Maritime provinces, 321
Printing Bureau-pay of women employees, 1593
Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 665 Soldiers, votes for, 2273, 2358, 2485 Smuggling, alleged, in Cape Breton, 223 Sydney Mines public building, 1981 Taxation Penalties, 1418 Stamp taxes, 1417
Witness, alleged improper detention of, 1555
Wrecking plants, 349
McLean, Mr. Angus A. (Queens, P.E.I.) Experimental farms, poultry on, 2056 Charlottetown, car-building for, 1697 Marine life-saving stations, 1637 North Lake boat harbour, 2114 Prince Edward Island parliamentary representation, 324, 1462, 2331 San Francisco exposition, 2086 Real estate titles, fraudulent, 1224
McLean, Mr. H. H. (Sunbury and Queens) Soldiers, votes for, 2256, 2259, 2268, 2276, 2472, 2487, 2535
McLeod, Col. H. F., command of, 561, 1441
McLeod, J. W., employment of, 896
McMillan, Mr. John A. (Glengarry)
Military training camps, 1456 Montreal-Carslake hotel purchase, 1289 War supplies-horses, 2100
McNeil, W., employment of, 1648
McQuarrie, Major, resignation of, 2528
Mail bag locks. See Post Office
Maple sugar. See Adulteration
Marcil, Hon. Charles (Bonaventure)
Baie des Chaleurs railway, 518 Bonaventure rural mail service, 769, 994, 2297
Bouillon, E. A., employment of, 2121 Canada, steamer, stranding of, 344 Canadian Peat Society, 1865 Carleton, Que., retaining wall, 390 Civil Service	.
Commission, 992 Promotions, 1959
Controverted elections, 2017, 2030 Dagneau, John T„ employment of, 1866 Demonstration farm for GaspS or Bonaventure, 2068
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[Stage Direction]


M arcil, Hon. Charles (Bonaventure)-Con. Dominion elections
Candidates having government contracts, 2143
Deferred elections, 1903, 2147 Drinking water, supervision of, 1600 Escuminac wharf, 1287 Farmers in Quebec, aid to, 291 Fish and Fisheries
Fisheries in tidal waters, 116, 994, 2302 Fishermen, grants to, 2123, 2300, 2301 French
Blue-books in
Printing and distribution, 1596, 2310 Translation, 504 War stamps in, 1205, 1412 French Canadian battalion, 22nd, 1149 GaspS
Deferred elections in, 1903, 2147 Purchase of war supplies in, 994 Railways, 518 Salmon fisheries, 116, 2302 Steamer service, 307, 833, 1286, 1301 GaspS bay anchorage, 998, 1449 Grain trade and flour prices, 1957 Immigration, 1572, 1575 Indians, Quebec, 1307
Inland Revenue Department, administration of, 1720, 1870 Insurance Department, 2372 Intercolonial railway Lumber contracts, 768 Matapedia, subway for, 1698 Liquors, inspection of, 1158 Maple sugar, adulteration of, 1794 Marine life-saving service, 350 Matapedia
Road, 1289, 2178 Water supply, 768 Montreal post office, 1377, 1986, 2296 New Carlisle, public building for, 1287, 1985
New Mills salmon ptand, 2301 Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 2143 Paspebiac
Customs office, 633 Wharf, 633, 2161 Peat experiments, 2122 Port Daniel mail service, 1992 Postage stamps, sale of, on Sunday, 2297 Printing bureau, 1591 Quebec .
Fisheries, 116, 994 Rural mail routes, 769 Superior court judges, 1186 Repatriation, 1571
Marcil, Hon. Charles (Bonaventure)-Con.
Restigouche river Bridge, 1148, 1682, 2177 Dredging, 1289, 1648, 2172 St. Jean l'Evangeliste mail service, 833 Scoles, C. R., payments to, 1468 Soldiers, votes for, 2264, 2268, 2344, 2485, 2516, 2538
Taxation-telegraphic messages, 1406 War supplies, purchase of, 994
Marcile, Mr. Joseph E. (Bagot)
Bagot county postal service, 141 Budget, 1052
British navy and the war, 1053 Government's financial methods, 1055 The new taxation, 1056 German spy, suspected, arrest of, 610 Valcartier camp supplies, 149 War supplies Boots, 149 Horses, 315
Marine
British ships, transfer of, 990, 1057 Coasting trade, 296 Department
Estimates, 338-350, 1250-1270 Staff and salaries, 237 Earl Grey, sale of the, 312, 339, 1255 Empress of Ireland investigation, 339, 343 Hydrographic surveys, 1626 Ice-breaking, 339, 1255, 1267 Life-saving, 350, 1633, 1638 Lighthouse and coast service, 1256-1260,
.	1267, 2304
Maritime road, 1267
Masters and mates, examination of, 340 Navigation Aids, 1258 Hudson Bay, 1628 Obstructions, removal of, 347, 2303 Rates, inland, control of, 43, 249 St. Lawrence, 1057, 1252 Schools, 346 Pilotage, 1265
Seamen, wrecked and distressed, 1269 Shipping casualties in 1914, 833 Signal service, 1264 Steamboat inspection, 1270 Steamers, government, 312, 338, 1255 Steamship services. See that title Unseaworthy vessels, 345 Wrecking plants, subsidies for, 349 Wrecks, investigations into, 342
Martin, Mr. Mederic (Montreal, St. Mary's) Maisonneuve leased post office, 2050 Unemployment, 501, 2320
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[Stage Direction]
Martin, Mr. William M. (Regina)
Aberdeen Association-franking privilege 311
Advertising and printing, payments by Government for, 761
Anderson, T. A., employment of, 605, 761, 996	'
Bank loans for seed grain, 1355 Carey, J. M., employment of, 993 Coal royalties, 520
Davidson, W. W., employment of, 768 Duck Mountain timber reserve, 992, 1577 Pood exports, government control of, 539 Gallon, W. J., employment of, 831 Gillis, A. B., employment of, 831 Homestead inspectors, superfluous, 231 Homesteads and pre-emptions, statistics of, 996
.Horses, fraudulent importation of, 229 Hudson Bay railway, 1148 Immigration, 1147, 1570, 1572 Indians-St. Peter's reserve, 13, 19, 1888 Inland navigation rates, control of, 253 Inland Revenue frauds, 512 Interior Department, administration of, 231 1570
Judges in active militia, 1728 Last Mountain lake dredging, 311 Maple Creek land office officials, 997 Militia separation allowances, 688 Real estate titles, fraudulent, 1225 Regina
Mounted police quarters, 311 Property purchases by Department of Public Works, 762 Customs ports, 228 Regina-Moosejaw Water supply, 311
Riding Mountain timber reserve, 1577 Sabistons-half-breed scrip, 1287 Saskatchewan lands, Indian and school, sales of, 768
Saskatchewan river water power, 235 Saskatoon land office officials, 997 Soldiers, insurance, 390 Swift Current land office officials, 997 Taxation-agricultural implements, 11691172
Western farmers, relief for, 49, 632, 720, 768, 1150, 1329, 1342, 1355
Masters and Mates. See Marine.
Matapedia
Road, 1289, 2178 Water supply, 768 Mattatall Lake post office, 832
Medical Council of Canada, grant to, 1251, 2316
Medicine Hat
Homestead inspector, 2123 Postmasters, 764 Rural mail service, 76S
Megantic county postmasters, 609
Meighen, Hon. Arthur (Solicitor General) Budget, 1115
The Opposition's criticism, 1116 War taxes, 1117 Diminished revenues, 1118 Retrenchment of expenditure, 1119 Industrial protection, 1122 Aid to railways, 1125 Taxation for revenue, 1127 Land tax and income tax, 1129 Ferguson, Mr. T. R., report of, 2573 Grain trade, 1955, 2030, 2193 National Transcontinental railway-proposed government operation, 1823, 1838
Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 653 Soldiers, votes for, 2220, 2347 Solicitor General, office of, 1737 Western farmers, relief for, 68, 1332
Menace newspaper, 991
Merner, Mr. J. J. (South Huron)
Food exports, government control of, 536
Meteorological service, 1268 Metric system, 1785
Michaud, Mr. Pius (Victoria, N.B.) Edmundston post office, 1390 Herrings, exported, price of, 1786 Horn extradition case, 44, 79 Indians, New Brunswick, 1319 Intercolonial railway
Freight rates in New Brunswick, 165 Mail service, 1390 International railway service, 1470 Metric system, 1785 Oil for fuel, 294 Stamp taxes, 1210 War supplies-horses, 246
Middlebro, Mr. William S. (North Grey) Boots, army-report of special committef 2372
Middlesex county Indians, 518
Military stores, fraud in sale of, 205, 304, 476, 1226
Militia and Defence
British Columbia militiamen in active service, 151
Cadet corps, 1518
Civil servants in militia service, 312, 522
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[Stage Direction]


Militia and Defence-Con.
Department
Coal supply, 2319, 2326 Estimates, 1428, 1496, 1544, 2319 Dominion arsenal, 1506 Drill halls, 2035
Duties on imported munitions, 1506
Engineer service and works, 1513
Fair wages clause in contracts, 240, 391
Motor trucks, 1145
Officers' allowances, 1447
Permanent force, 1515, 2529
Petawawa camp, 240, 1185
Railway engineering corps, 1525
Rifle ranges, 1553
Royal Military College, 1519
Schools of instruction, 1524	'
Training areas, 1556
Valcartier camp, 240, 391, 1514, 1552, 2122, 2123 See War
Mines and Minerals
Coal
Imports, 244, 521, 633, 828 Leases, 1148, 1611 Royalties, 520 Western industry, 492 Department Estimates, 1599, 2313 Staff and salaries, 1599 Electric smelting, 1602, 2313 Explosives, 1601, 1604 Geological survey, 1606-1611 Investigations and experiments, 1603, 2313 Oil. See that title Peat
Canadian Peat Society, 1865 Experiments, 2122 Radium-bearing ores, 1609 Tar sands for road making, 1604
Ministerial changes, 207 Mizonnette lighthouse, 46
Molloy, Mr. John P. (Provencher)
Fournier, L. H., employment of, 521 Hudson Bay railway bridge, 606 Winnipeg
Resident engineer, 765	,
Volunteers, 313
Moncton. See Intercolonial railway Montmagny, wreck of, 1867 Montreal
Armoury-fair wage clause, 240 Barracks, 2035
Carslake hotel purchase, 1289, 2528. See also Postal Station A Dismissals of public works employees, 1652
Montreal-Con.
Eostal station A, 1651, 1986, 2186, 2528 Postal Station L, 2528 Post office, 1377 Resident engineer, 437
Monuments, erection of, 1251, 1252
Moosejaw
Property purchases by Department of Public Works, 762 Water supply, 311
Morphy, Mr. H. B. (North Perth) Compensation to workmen by railways, 514 Controverted elections, 2003 Real estate, fraudulent titles to, 1225
Morris, F., employment of, 151
Morris, Mr. James (Chateauguay)
Maple sugar, adulteration of, 1794
Mounted Police, Royal Northwest, 1249, 1284, 2322, 2326
Mousseau, P A., employment of, 1992, 2122
Murphy, Hon. Charles (Russell)
Canadian Northern railway, payments to, 150
Canadian patriotic fund, 143 Canadian War Contingent Association, 2122 Dominion Trust Company, 519 Fort Erie shooting case, 143 French river improvements, 1991 Hall, R. P., appointment of, 763 Immigration officials, suspension of, 243 Marriage laws, 436 North Bay recruiting, 1991 Nottar, H., death of, 150 Ottawa and Hull town-planning commission, 241
Overseas dominions, status of, 439 Pollution of navigable waters, 123 Princess Patricia regiment, 391 Soldiers, votes for, 2204, 2470 Valcartier camp-payment of accounts, 312 Victoria Memorial Museum, 153 War. supplies Boots, 2395 Canvas shoes, 763 Horses, 149, 314, 520 Overshoes, 315	*
Saddles, 632
National Drug Company, 312 National Gallery of Canada, 2182
National Transcontinental railway
Bridge keepers, 897 Construction, 1859
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xxvii
National Transcontinental Railway-Con.
Government Operation Bill. Res., 1802. lr., 1859.	2r„ 1894. Com., 2124.	3r„ 2139,
Investigating commission, expenses of, 44 Montreal connection, 1711 Portneuf claims, 993 Quebec
Bridge, expenditure on, 437, 1864 Terminals, 518, 606, 993, 1867 Station employees, 1143
Naturalization, 610, 1598, 2317 Naval Service
Department
Estimates, 237, 1612-1621, 2298 Staff and salaries, 237 Forces and expenses, 1613, 1614, 1654 Northern waters, patrol of, 1630, 2298 Stefansson expedition, 1630, 2298
Navigable waters
Pollution of, 3, 118, 204 Removal of obstructions in, 347
Navigation. See Marine Neely, Mr. D. B. (Humboldt)
Budget
Commercial depression, 959 Trade policy of the Government, 960 Decreased trade and revenues and the war, 961
The tariff increases, 962 Manufacturers and consumers, 963 The made-in-Canada movement, 963 Methods of increasing revenues, 964 Taxation of British imports, 965, 969 National Transcontinental railway, 966 Canadian Northern railway, 968 Hudson Bay railway, 969 Opposition alternative proposals, 970 German population of the west, 970 Live stock industry, 2094 War supplies-horses, 388, 2095, 2098 Western farmers, relief for, 61 Wood, E. C., land patent of, 151
Nesbitt, Mr. Edward W. (North Oxford) Budget
Hard times and the war, 593 Problems of the Minister of Finance, 594 Taxation of loan and insurance companies, 595 The new tariff, 595 Reduction of expenditures, 596 Soldiers, votes for, 2283, 2480 Taxation-insurance companies, 595, 1180, 1183
War supplies-boots, 2414
New Brunswick steamship services, 1301, 1304
New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island railway, purchase of, 152
New Carlisle, public building for, 1287, 1985
Newcastle wireless station-alleged flying of American flag, 1616
Newfoundland
Partridge berries from, 1166 Steamship services, 1295, 1301, 1303 New Glasgow
Dredging, 1992 Mail service, 517
New Waterford
Mail sendee, 1360 Recruiting, 392
Nickel Export Regulation Bill, lr., 3. Ruled out, 43. See 78, 1937
Nickle, Mr. William F. (Kingston)
Canadian patriotic fund, 401 Kingston penitentiary commission, 1767 Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 655 Soldiers, votes for, 2244
Niobe and Rainbow, His Majesty's Canadian ships, 45, 151
Noreen, steamer, 1396, 2188
Northern waters, patrol of, 1630, 2298
Northrup, Mr. William B. (East Hastings) Vancouver Terminal Railway Company 990
Nottar, H„ shooting of, 150
Nova Scotia
Coal areas, 1609 Electoral lists, 833
Military forces, 481, 561, 608, 612, 687, 720, 905, 1396, 1428, 1496 Postal service, 900, 1380 Public works. See that title Steamship services, 1301, 1304
Nova Scotians in the west, 1559 Oil
Fuel, 143, 294 Leases, 241, 243
Oliver, Hon. Frank (Edmonton)
Alberta	*
Military training area, 1556 Public buildings, 2044 Animals, diseases of, 2089 Architect, Dominion chief, appointment of 1960
Athabaska Landing public building, 2044 2298
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[Stage Direction]
xxvm
Oliver, Hon. Frank (Edmonton)-Con.
Athabaska river dredging, 2775 Banff and Calgary civil servants, 1184 British Columbia public buildings, 2045 Budget, 378
An extraordinary budget, 378 The financial situation, 379 War loans, 380
Means for increasing revenue, 3S1 Tariff increases, 383 "Westem agricultural production, 386 Canada Year Book, 1938 Canadian expeditionary forces, 2370 Canadian patriotic fund, 395 Coal, sub-bituminous, 1604 Edmonton, Dunvegan and British Columbia Railway Company, 705 Edmonton
Public buildings, 2044 Rifle range, 1553 River bank, protection of, 2169 Explosives in mines, 1606 Ferguson, Mr. T. R., report of, 2539, 2601 Grain trade, 1951, 2030, 2191 Homestead maps, 237 Homesteaders' wood rights, 1566 Hudson Bay
Navigation, 1627, 1629 Railway, 1861
Kitsilano Indian reserve, 1892 Kootenay bay wharf, 2171 Lethbridge immigration inspector, 1569 National Transcontinental railway-proposed government operation, 1850, 2136 National parks, Canadian, 236 Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 2145
Pigeon lake improvements, 2168 Prince George mail service, 2298 Printing Bureau and public printing, 1597 St. Peter's Indian reserve, 1876 Saskatchewan and Alberta government telegraph lines, 2179 Senate, powers of the, 2330 Soldiers, votes for, 2240, 2271, 2292, 2344, 2356, 2463, 2476, 2495, 2504, 2533 Stefansson expedition, 310, 1630, 1632, 2300 Sturgeon river improvements, 2170 Tar sands, 1605 Timber regulations, 1566 Valcartier camp, 1552 WTar
Appropriation, 1677 Pensions, 141 '
Supplies-horses, 766, 1867, 2102 Wrater-power investigations, 235 Weights and measures, inspection of, 511 Western farmers, relief for, 66
Ottawa
Buildings rented by Government, 148, 30S, 2047
Dominion buildings, 1968, 2037 Victoria Memorial Museum, 153, 1969 W'oods and Canadian buildings-cost of electric lighting, 1651
Ottawa and Hull
Postal rate, 766
Town-planning commission, 241, 766
Ottawa river storage works, 21S1
Pacaud, Mr. Lucien T. (Megantic)
Megantic postmasters, 609
Papineau, Mr. Louis J. (Beauharnois)
Charge of corruption, 1144 Civil service, increase of, 1588
Paquet, Mr. Eugene (L'lslet)
Budget, 971
Nature of the war, 971 Patriotism and production, 972 The public expenditures, 973 The war taxes, 974
Pardee, Mr. Frederick F. (West Lambton) Civil service-dismissals and appointments, 218
Controverted elections, 1995, 2153 Dominion elections-hours of polling, 1913 Drill halls, expenditures on, 2035 Gobeil, A., employment of, 1964 Philadelphia immigration agent, 522 Motor trucks for Militia Department, 1145 Taxation-gravel and sand, 1160, 1163, 1164 Wrecks, investigations into, 343
Parks, Canadian national, 236
Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 1242, 1901, 2140
Parliamentary procedure
Bill, re-committal of, with instructions, 2195
Divorce bills, on, 1987, 2187 Member, having begun speech, temporarily yields floor to intervening speaker, by consent of House, 999
Previous debate, reference by members to, 1765
Printing of parliamentary documents, rule for, 1057
Private Bills-suspension of certain rules, 1527
Resolution
Affecting postage submitted by private member, 338 Moved after notice, 1159 See Speaker
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[Stage Direction]
Parliamentary representation
British North America Act, proposed amendment of-address to the King, 1459, 2327
House of Commons Representation Act of 1914, correction of clerical errors in, 1557, 1994
/See Prince Edward Island
Paspebiac
Customs office, 633 Wharf, 633
Patent medicines
Composition of, 1717 Tax on, 1208, 1423
Patent shovel shield, 437, 1235
Patents, renewal of, 1261, 1284, 1989
Patriotic fund. See Canadian
Peace
Canadian Centenary Association, 2815 Terms of, and the overseas Dominions, 2627
Peart, L., employment of, 308
Peat. See Mines
Pecuniary Claims Convention, 1740
Pelletier, Hon. L. P.
Testimonial to, 211 Trip of, 2529
Penitentiaries
Begg, Mr., employment of, 828 Kingston, 136, 271, 515, 1740 Prison reform, 1049, 1761, 1775 Release of Thomas Riley, 2459 Stony Mountain, 390, 1185 Tickets of leave, 1736
Pensions, 1188, 1394, 1450 Perley, Sir George H.
Acting Canadian High Commissioner, 2318 Speech of-status of Overseas Dominions, 439
Peterborough, government employees in, 1285 Petite Riviere fishery guardian, 1396 Pettet, W. V., employment of, 2123
Phillips-Wolley, Sir Clive, appointment of, 151
Philipsburg-St. Armand mail service, 249, 313, 995
Pickel, G. H., employment of, 831 Picton armoury, 1145
Pictou (county)
Fishery guardians, 245
Mail service, 244, 610, 995, 1288, 1458, 2123, 2188
Medical examiners for volunteers, 762 Pictou (island) telephone line, 143 Pictou (town) winter freight handling, 246 Pilotage. See Marine Pit props, trade in, 1934
Pollution of Navigable Waters Bill, lr., 3.
2r., 118. Ref. to special Com., 204.
Pope lease on Knee Hill Creek, 993
Port Arthur
Drill hall, 2038
Harbour improvements, 1970-1975 Port Daniel mail service, 1992
Post Office
Closed offices, 833 Contingencies, 1360
Department staff and salaries, 1359, 2295 Dismissals, 1363 Estimates, 1359-1394, 2295-2298 Franking privilege, 311, 905, 1370, 2296 Free postage for soldiers, 338, 1419 Mail carriers, payment of, 2297 Mail bag locks, 46, 1393 Motor cars, 1391 Outside service, 1360, 1371 Parcel post, 1371-1375, 1384 Post cards, stamps on, 1205 Rural mail service, 1379, 1384 Stamps, sale and use of, 1391, 1393. 1422, 2297, 2624
Potatoes. See Agriculture.
Power, Mr. William (Quebec West)
' Salisbury camp, 1504
Prince Albert property purchase, 762
Prince Edward Island
Car ferry, 1704 Immigration officer, 1575 Mail service, 1378, 1385 Marine life-saving service, 1637 Parliamentary representation, 316,	1459,
2327, 2331 Public works, 2114 Railway, 1704, 1707 Steamship services, 1303 Winter mail service, 348
Prince of Wales fund, 244
Prince Rupert Rifles, disbandment of, 1522
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Volume ii:	945-1783
Volume iii:	1785-2628
[Stage Direction]


Printing Bureau, Government, 1591-1597, 2307 Prison reform. See Penitentiaries Private Bills discussed Alexander, Charles Isaac, divorce bill, 1894, 1987, 2187
Canadian Northern Railway Company, 708, 758
Canadian Northern Ontario Railway Company, 560
Canadian Pacific Railway Company, 725 Casualty Company of Canada, 761 Edmonton, Dunvegan and British Columbia Railway Company, 705, 721 Lohmann Company, patent of, 1261, 1284 Millen, J., patent of, 1989 Montreal, Ottawa and Georgian Bay Canal Company, 966
Toronto Eastern Railway Company, 708 Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo Railway Company, 967
Van Buren Bridge Company, 709, 760 Vancouver Terminal Railway Company, 990, 1262
Prostitution, houses of, 1227
Proulx, Mr Edmond (Prescott)
Aliens at Petawawa, 828, 998 Architect, Dominion chief, appointment of 1958, 1961
Dominion elections-candidates and government contracts. See Parliament. Dredge No. 7, 1647 French Canadians and the war, 1442 Furniture for government offices, 1868 Georgian Bay Canal Commission, 1145 Hawkesbury - Grenville bridge, 1648, 1992, 2176
Home militia, 312, 522 Judges' pensions, 765 L'Orignal post office, 1363 Minister of Militia and the war, 1517 Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 1242, 1527, 1901, 1929, 21402146
Petawawa camp, 1185 Picton armoury, 1145 Privilege-Ottawa Evening Journal, 991 Soldiers, votes for, 2291 Taxation-income, 1197 Telephones, free, for government officials, 1970
War supplies, purchase of Horses, 994 Housewives, 1650 Oats and hay, 1397
Public Accounts Committee. See War supplies-investigations
Public health, conservation of, 2107 Public works
Architect, Dominion chief, appointment of, 1958, 1961, 1966, 2184 Buildings Alberta, 2044 British Columbia, 2045 Manitoba, 2040 New Brunswick, 1981 Nova Scotia, 1975 Ontario, 2034, 2185 Quebec, 1983 Saskatchewan, 2042 Department
Engineering branch, 2181 Estimates, 1958, 1961, 2034, 2111, 2155 Dredging
Dredge No. 7, 1647, 1866 Maritime provinces, 1289, 1648, 1992, 2171 Ontario and Quebec, -1252, 2172 Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, 2175
Expenditures, 2035 (Harbours and rivers
British Columbia, 1970, 2170 Generally, 2155 Manitoba, 2166 New Brunswick, 1972, 2117 Nova Scotia, 2051, 2111 Ontario, 1970, 1975, 2164, 2184 Prince Edward Island, 1975, 2114 Quebec, 1971, 2119, 2155, 2185 Saskatchewan and Alberta, 2167 Slides and booms, 2184
Pugsley, Hon. William (St. John City) Allison, J. Wesley, services, of, 1451, 1506 Amherst post office site, 1975 Ammunition, purchases of, 1451, 1506 Architect, Dominion chief, appointment of, 1960
Bank loans for seed grain, 1244 Budget, 470, 562
Proposed taxation, 470, 563 Civil Service

statement of Mr. Adam Shortt, 471
Public works expenditures, 473, 564 Militia expenditures, 564 Stamp taxes, 569, 573 Coal tariff, 570
Farmers and the tariff, 570, 575 Duty on fertilizers, 571 French treaty imports, 573 British preference, 576 Canadian Pacific railway steamship services, 738
Censorship, 1448, 1496, 1506
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[Stage Direction]
Pugsley, Hon. Wm. (St. John City)-Con.
Civil Service
Appointments, 1873
War service, government employees on, 217
See Shortt
Controverted elections, 1922, 1997,	2008,
2017, 2151
Cost of Living Commission, 2625 Dominion elections-candidates and government contracts, 2140 Edmonton, Dunvegan and British Columbia Railway Company, 722 Ferguson, Mr. T. R., report of, 2584 Inland Revenue, pamphlet of Deputy Minister of, 1725
International railway, government acquisition of, 1682
Leonardsville dredging, 312 Lobsters, sale of undersized, 1150 McLeod, Colonel H. F., battalion of, 561 Medical Council of Canada, 1251 Militia Department coal supply, 2319 National Transcontinental railway, 1829, 2130
Ottawa-buildings rented by Government, 2047
Palmerston public building, 2037 Parliament, members of, and government contracts, 2140, 2146
Parliamentary representation, 1461, 2333 Patent ballot, allowance for, 1591 Printing, government, 1595 Privilege-omission, in Hansard, 689 Public works expenditures, 1362. See Budget Railway employees, voting of, 2503 Real estate, fraudulent titles to, 1219 St. John
Custom house improvements, 1982 Harbour improvements, 1972 Secretary of State, Department of, expenditure of, 1590
Seed grain. See Western farmers Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 213, 471, 647 Soldiers, votes for, 2226, 2353, 2463, 2477, 2490, 2503, 2538
Submarines, purchase of, 94, 110, 946 Taxation Banks, 1195 Corporations, 1195
Fertilizers, 571, 1159, 1395, 1400, 1402 French Treaty, articles under, 573, 1212, 1216
Insurance companies, 1179 Postal rates and stamp taxes, 1419 Proprietary or patent medicines, 1425 Spirits, 1155
Telegraphic messages, 1194 See Budget
Pugsley, Hon. Wm. (St. John City)-Con.
Transatlantic steamship services, 1298 Vancouver immigration building, 2046 War
Appropriations, 91 Supplies
Agents, 40, 2461. See Allison Ammunition 1451, 1507, 1669 Bicycles, 767
British Government, 2461 Horses, 1230-1232
Western farmers, relief for, 1329. See Bank loans
Qu'Appelle postmastership, 436
Quebec (city)
Bridge, 437, 1710 Harbour Commissioners, 2123 [DOT] Price, Sir William, resignation of, 1965, 1966
Harbour improvements, 1971 History of port, 1962 Postal revenues, 896 Terminals, 1860
Quebec (county) telegraph service, 1187, 2122
Quebec (province)
Aid to farmers, 291 Fisheries, 116, 994, 2302 Steamship services, 1301 Superior court judges, superannuation of, 1186
Quebec and Saguenay railway, 2532, 2625
Radium. See Mines
Railways
Capitalization, control of, 78, 261, 285, 726758, 1150
Employees, voting of, 2498 Extension of charters, 706, 720, 758 Labour conditions on construction work, 502
Mail contracts, 1375 Wages, payment of, on, 498 Workmen's compensation, 514 For individual railways, see their titles
Railways and Canals Department
Estimates, 1467-1495, 1685-1713, 1859-1863 Staff and salaries, 1471
Rainville, Mr. Joseph H. (Chambly and Vercheres)
War supplies-boots, 2408
Real estate titles, fraudulent, 47, 284, 476, 1219
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[Stage Direction]
Regina
Mounted police quarters, 311 Property purchases by Government, 762 2188
Water supply, 311
Reid, Hon. J. D. (Minister of Customs) Agriculture
Department estimates, 1229-1240 Farmers' relief, 1239 Potato embargo, 719, 749, 991, 1229 Civil Service-stenographers, 1472 Customs	.
Agricultural implements, valuation of, 605, 1170
Alert, revenue steamer, 23 Department
Appointments and dismissals, 218, 228 Employees on war service, 217-219 Estimates, 217-230 Staff and salaries, 217-230 Investigations, 611 Smuggling, alleged, 223 Spirits, valuation of, 1155 Duchemin, H. P., payments to, 952 Fraudulent importation of horses, 230 Patent shovel shield, 1236 Patents, renewal of, 1261, 1284, 1990 Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 662 Toronto custom house, 2039 War supplies-horses, 1230-1235
Reindeer, experiments with, 234, 2315 Repatriation, 1571.
Restigouche river Bridge, 1148, 2177 Dredging, 1289, 1648
RHoda, steamer, 2531
Rhodes, Mr. Edgar N. (Cumberland)
Amherst Armoury, 1977 Car-building, 1696 Post office, 1975
Cumberland mail service, 1649 Intercolonial railway-Wallace spur line, 1694
Nova Scotia military forces, 1496, 1501, 1551
Ribstone, village of, patent of, 243 Richard, Mrs. Margaret, claim of, 896, 1639 Richards, J. W., M.P., death of, 827 Richelieu county mail carriers, 1287 Richelieu river wharves, 995
Richmond county, Quebec, farmers, relief for,
Riding mountain timber reserve, 1577 Rigaud
Armoury, 631, 993 Dredging, 390 Wharf, 1786
Rimouski (county)
Dredging, 897
Purchase of war supplies in, 994
River John customs sub-collectorship, 142
Robb, Mr. James A. (Huntingdon)
Corn imports, 152 Drill halls, 2035
Flour, Canada's gift of, to Great Britain, 1646
Grain trade, 1346, 2032, 2192 Maple sugar, adulteration of, 1792 Rural mail service, 1384
Seed grain, purchase and distribution of, 1346
Taxation-Customs valuations, 1403, 1405 War supplies-horses, 249, 1232, 2099
Robertson, Struan, Lt.-Col. See Nova Scotia military forces
Robinson, George, employment of, 831
Roche, Hon. W. J. (Minister of the Interior) Astronomical observatory, western, 1585, 1893
Duck mountain timber reserve, 1578 Forest reserves, 1578 Homestead maps, 237 Homesteaders' wood rights, 1565 Immigration, 1558, 1569-1577 Agencies, 1558, 1564 Oriental, 1576
Indians, 1306-1328. See that title Interior Department
Estimates, 231, 1281, 1558 Ferguson, Mr. T. R., report of, 2551 Staff, salaries, etc., 233, 1558, 1570 Irrigation-refund, 1894 Lethbridge immigration officer, 1568 Nova Scotians in the west, 1559 Parks, Canadian national, 236, 1894 Schrader grazing lease, 1564 Seed grain. See Western farmers Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 232 Timber protection, 233, 1565, 1578 Tree culture, 233
Water-powers, development of, 234 Western farmers, relief for, 53, 292, 948, 1281, 1329, 1344, 1348 Wetaskawin settlers, grievances of, 1561 Yukon placer mining rights, 514, 1868
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[Stage Direction]
xxxiii
Rogers, Hon. Robert (Minister of Public Works)
Architect, Dominion chief, appointment of, 1958, 1968, 2184
Edmonton, Dunvegan and British Columbia Railway Company, 705, 720 Gobeil, A., employment of, 1962-1968 House of Commons-business of the House, 1787
Militia Department coal supply, 2326 National Transcontinental railway-government operation, 1857 Public works ,
Building's, 1961, 1975, 2034, 2185 Department
Estimates, 1958, 1961, 2034, 2111, 2155 Staff, salaries, etc., 1958, 2184 Dredging', 2171
Harbours and rivers, 1970, 2051, 2111, 2155
Miscellaneous, 2181 Roads and bridges, 2176 Slides and booms, 2184 Telegraph lines, 2179 Seed grain. See Western farmers Senate, powers of the, 2328 Shortt, Mr Adam, speech of, 471, 636 Telephones, free, for government officials, 1970
Victoria Memorial Museum, 1969 Votes for soldiers, 336 Western farmers, relief for, 62
Ross, Mr. Duncan C. (West Middlesex)
Foot and mouth disease, 611, 2053, 2087 Middlesex county Indians, 518
Rosthern customs receipts, 79 Royal assent, 2210, 2628
Royal Print and Lithograph Company, payments to, 1S64
Royal Society of Canada, accommodation for, 245
Roy, Col. Alex., retirement of, 1516 Roy, P. X„ employment of, 992 St. Anselme government employees, 1993 St. Antoine de Richelieu wharf, 995 St. Armand rural mail service, 1289 St. Denis rural mail service, 993 St. Gilbert de Portneuf postmaster, 307 St. Jean I'Evangeliste mail service, 833 St. John, N.B.
Custom house improvements, 1982 Harbour, 1972
St. John Valley railway, 46, 142, 173
St. Lambert post office, 1648
St. Lawrence. See Marine
St. Mathieu dredging, 2173
St. Paul's Island life-saving station, 608
St. Peter's Indian reserve. See Indians
St. Romuald post office, 518
St. Thomas armoury, 1866
St. Zotique wharf, 390
Sackville
Home guard, 1517, 1706 Pilotage, 1266 Post office, 153
Railway accommodation, 606, 1693 Saskatchewan
Homesteads and pre-emptions, 996 Indian lands, 768 Land office officials, 997 School lands, 768
Saskatoon
Customs collector, 79 Public building, 2043, 2326 Public Works Department property purchases, 762
Rural mail service, 607
Schaffner, Mr. F. L. (Souris)
Bank loans for seed grain, 1355 Boissevain postmastership, 1369 Capital punishment, 136 Experimental farms, 2058, 2064 Food exports, government control of, 531 Freight rates, 258
Taxation-proprietary medicines, 1208,1211
Schrader grazing lease, 1562
Scientific literature, international catalogue of, 1590
Scott, Mr F. S. (South Waterloo)
Budget, 590
The late Mr. Clare, M.P., 590 Taxation of banks,, 590 British preference, 591 Government railway expenditures, 591 The made-in-Canada movement, 592 Canada's opportunities, 592
Secretary of State, Department of Estimates, 1588, 2307 Staff, salaries, etc., 1588, 1589
Seed grain, distribution of. See Western Farmers and Richmond County
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[Stage Direction]


Seguin, Mr. Paul A. (L'Assomption)
L'Assomption (counts'), public employees from, 2528
L'Assomption (village) wharf, 1145,	2119
St. Lin public building, 1984
Senate. See Parliamentary representation and Senate and House of Commons
Senate and House of Commons Act Amendment Bills
Independence of members, lr., 1242 Members on active service, lr., 351.	2r.,
439. Com., 439.	3r., 441
Sharpe, Mr. Samuel (North Ontario)
Bank loans for seed grain, 1352 Canadian Pacific Railway Company's ocean services, 741, 757 Canadian patriotic fund, 1864 Ottawa-Woods and Canadian buildings

cost of electric lighting, 1651 War supplies Horses, 829 Ammunition, 1652
Sharpe, Mr. Wm. H. (Lisgar)
Binders, imports of, 1649 Food exports, government control of, 547 Grain trade, 1954 Hudson Bay navigation, 1629 Shefford county rural mail service, 1287 Shelburne
Fishery inspector, 1271 Fog alarm, 389
Sherbrooke Mounted Rifles, supplies for, 314, 1512	.
Shipping. See Marine
Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 213, 232, 471, 634 Shovel shield, 437, 1235 Shubenacadie post office, 1866 Sinclair, Mr. John H. (Guysborough)
Aliens, registration of, 48 Amherst
Custom house, 1646 Post office, 1396 Belgian relief, 1676 Budget, 889, 905
The party truce, 889 Canada's financial problem, 890 War expenditures, 891 Imperialism and nationalism, 891 Canada's period of hard times, 892 The Government's financial administration, 893
Political patronage and war contracts, 906
Sinclair, Mr. John H. (Guysborough)-Con.
Budget-Con.
The new taxation, 909 Fishermen and the tariff, 910 Naval policy, 911
The member for West Peterborough, 911 Summing up, 912 Canning public building, 1979 Canso
Lobster hatchery, 2530 Military guard, 1556 Reduction works, 633, 767 Cole Harbour wharf, 5f7, 2051 Copper exports, 312 Country Harbour Gas buoy, 762 Wharf, 2114
.Duchemin, H. P., payments to, 604 East Erinville post office, 519 Fenian raid bounty, 1651 Fish and Fisheries
American vessels, regulation of, 1650 " Fish and How to Cook It "-booklet, 239 Lobsters
Close season, 45 Hatcheries, 2530 Pickled fish, inspection of, 48 Shell-fish Commission, 607 Steam trawling, 243, 311, 312, 1623, 1625, 2306
Transportation, 80 Guysborough
Branch railways. See Intercolonial Fishery guardians, 313 Mail service, 519, 607, 633, 897, 1185 Halifax public works expenditures, 1458 Intercolonial railway
Branch lines, eastern Nova Scotia, 44, 519, 1467, 1480, 1700 Fish transportation, 80 Ice contracts, 311 Imported stationery, 1697 Mulgrave car ferry, 1693 Pugwash spur line, 391 Wallace spur line, 391, 1694 Isaac's Harbour lobster hatchery, 2530 Le Blanc, seaman, family of, 896, 1639 Marine
Canadian shipping registry, 45 Coasting trade, 296, 1933 Shipping casualties in 1914, 833 Mattatall lake post office, 832 Military stores, fraud in sale of, 205, 304 National Transcontinental railway investigating commission, 44 Naval Service, Department of, 238 New Harbour breakwater, 2051 Niobe and Rainbow, Canadian ships, 45
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[Stage Direction]
Sinclair, Mr. John H. (Guysborough)- Con.
Nova Scotia
Electoral lists, 833 Military forces, 1438, 1502, 1550 Ocean freight rates, 216
Phillips-Wolley, Sir Clive, appointment of, 151
Pit props, trade in, 1934
Post offices closed in Canada, 833
Printing, government, 2308
Public works, expenditures on, 2039, 2047
Richard, Mrs. Margaret, claim of, 896, 1639
Shortt, Mr Adam, speech of, 639
Soldiers
Cerebro-spinal meningitis among, 2529 Votes for, 2263, 2268, 2345 Taxation
Letters and post cards, 1413 Patent medicines, 1424 War supplies-boots, 48
Soldiers. See Militia and War
Soldiers Voting Bill. lr., 1874.	2r„ 2195.
Com., 2258, 2343, 2462. 2533.	3r„ 2538.
Senate amdts., 2625. See 334, 1643
Solicitor General, office of, 1735
Soulanges canal, 1712
Southampton railway investigation, 142
South Wellington mine disaster, 207
Speaker (Hon. T. S. Sproule), rulings and statements of Bills
To be introduced by resolution:
To increase salaries, 1644 To regulate exports, 4, 43 Questions as to details irregular on 2r, 2201
Motion for ref. to com. only after 2r 262
House not to instruct on Bill in possession of com., 387
Private bills-suspension of certain rules 1527
Re-committal, with instructions, 2195 Blue books, printing and distribution of, 1596, 2311
Committees, power of, to administer the oath, 304, 306 House of Commons
Reading room, 611, 1863 Sessional employees, 2109 Irrelevancy, 1049
Members, irregular references to each other, 577
Patent medicines, sale of, 1718
Speaker (Hon. T. S. Sproule)-Gon.
Printing of parliamentary documents, rule for, 1057
Privilege, questions of
Newspaper articles not such, 991, 2460 Political pamphlet, statements in, not such, 2190
Question containing unadmitted allegation of fact, also referring to unofficial matter, irregular, 2532 Report from Com. of Supply not receivable on day resolutions have been agreed to by Com., 2323
Resolution affecting postage not movable by private member, 338 Voters' lists, preparation of, 1594 See Parliamentary procedure
Special War Revenue Bill. Res., 87, 1175, 1191. lr., 1217.	2r., 1405. Com., 1405,
1586. 3r., 1588. See Budget and Taxation
Squid imports, 244
Stamp taxes. See Taxation
Stan bridge East rural mail service, 995
Stanfield, Mr. John (Colchester)
House of Commons
Members and government contracts, 2142 Sessional indemnity, 2310
Stanfold township, model farm for, 1993 Steamboats. See Marine Steamship services
Australia and New Zealand, 1292, 1300 Canada
British Columbia, 1300 Gasp6, 1301
New Brunswick, 1301, 1304 Nova Scotia, 1301, 1304 Prince Edward Island, 1303 Quebec, 1301 China and Japan, 1300 Cuba, 1294 France, 718
Great Britain, 1291, 1293, 1297 Newfoundland, 1295, 1301, 1303 South Africa, 1295
West Indies and South America, 1295
Stefansson expedition, 310, 1630, 2298
Stellarton public building, 763
Stevens, Mr. H. H. (Vancouver)
Budget, 599, 613
Expenditures on public works, 600, 616 Estimates for the year, 603
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Volume i; 1-944
Volume iii:	1785-2628
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Stevens, Mr. H. H. (Vancouver)-Con.
Budget-Con.
Financial and trade conditions and the war, 613, 617, 620 French treaty rights, 614 The new taxation, 615 Canada's foreign trade opportunities, 617 House of Commons-members' franking privilege and war stamps, 905 Kitsilano Indians, 1892 Militia Department coal supply, 2319 National labour bureau, 607 Vancouver Terminal Railway Company, 990
Submarines, 94, 107, 946, 955
Suckling, Rev. W. T., enlistment of, 1S67
Supply, Committee of, 212-240, 338-351, 481514,	1228-1242,	1249-1283,	1291-1328,
1359-1394, 1428-1458, 1466-1525, 15441585, 1588-1643, 1685-1714, 1715-1783, 1859-1863, 1876-1894, 1930-1987, 20342053, 2055-2121, 2154-2186, 2295-2320. For details see titles of departments and subjects.
Supply Bill (for 1915, $14,766,499.39; for 1916, $156,496,333.73). Res., 2371. lr„ 2r„ Com., and 3r., 2372.
Supreme Court Act Amendment Bill. lr.,
1988. 2r„ 2053. Com., 2053. 3r., 2055.
Sutherland, Mr. Donald (South Oxford) Budget, 87S
Made-in-Canada movement, 878 Protection and the reciprocity pact, S79 The political truce, 880 Naval policy, SSO, 887 Opposition criticisms, 883 War taxation, 885 British preference, 886	_
Experimental farms, 2069 Food exports, government control of, 548 Horse breeding, 2106 Meat inspection, 2091 Soldiers, votes for, 2285
Sydney-St. Peter's railway, proposed, 608, 992
Tar sands. See Mines
Ta riff. See Taxation
Taxation, War
Customs
Agricultural implements, 1169-1175 Bananas, 1166
Exempted articles, 246, 1151 Fertilizers, 1151, 1159, 1162, 1395, 1400 Gravel and sand, 1160-1165 Newfoundland partridge berries, 1166
Taxation, War-Con.
Customs-Con.
Resolutions, 1168 Revenue, estimated, 1169 Silk, 1167 __
Spirits, 1152 Tea and coffee, 1168 Valuation, 605, 1152 Special
Bank circulation, 1191	'
Bills of exchange, cheques, etc., 11771205, 1407
Corporations, 1191-1197 Date of operation, 613 French treaty, articles under, 1211-1216 Department of Justice, opinion of, 1422 Insurance companies, 1178, 1191, 1405 Letters and post cards, 1206 Exempted postal matter, 1413 Loan and trust companies, 1191 Modifications, proposed, 1177 Money orders, etc., 1205 Penalties, 1411, 1418, 1427, 1586 Postal rates and stamp taxes, 1412-1421, 1586
Proprietary or patent medicines, 312, 1208, 1423
Resolutions, 1175	'
Revenue, estimated, 1208 Railway tickets, 1197-1201, 1406 Telegraphic messages, 1192, 1406 Vessel tickets, 1201 Wines, 1208-1216, 1422 See Budget, Customs Tariff War Revenue Bill, Special War Revenue Bill, and Ways and Means
Taylor, Mr. James D. (New Westminster) Hansard, omissions from, 689 Vancouver Terminal Railway Company, ' 1262
Technical education, 245, 495, 502, 1146 Telegraphers. See Labour
Telephones, free, for Government officials, 1968
Temiscouata postal service, 392 Terminal elevators. See Grain Act
Thoburn, Mr. William (North Lanark) Soldiers, votes for, 2270
War supplies and Canadian Manufacturers' Association, 1669
Thompson, Mr. Alfred (Yukon)
Aviation school, Canadian, 1989 Silver-lead bounties, 1937 Trade with Russia and South America, 1935
Yukon, the, 1580-1584
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xxxvn
Thomson, Mr. Levi (Qu'Appelle)
Bank loans for seed grain, 1352. See Western farmers Budget, 811
Conditions in the west, 812 The new taxation, 813 Tariff increases, 814 Made-in-Canada campaign, 816 British preference, 816 Qu'Appelle postmasters, dismissal of, 436 Western farmers, relief for, 60, 1341, 1352 Three Rivers
Harbour, 2155, 2175 Public building, 1786
Timber protection, 233, 1560, 1566, 1578
Tobin, Mr. Edmund W. (Richmond-Wolfe) Colcleugh, F. W. R., employment of, 1648 Cookshire post office, 1991 iHorses, embargo on, 1235 Prices of feed and foodstuffs, 2080 St. Mathieu, dredging at, 2174 Richelieu river wharves, 995 Rimouski dredging, 897
Richmond county, Quebec, farmers, relief for, 1237
Vezina's Corners postmastership, 1991 War supplies-horses, 830, 1146
Tobique Indian reserve, 187 Toronto
Customs examining warehouse and postal station A, 2039 Harbour improvements, 1975 Home guard, 243 Post office building, 1970
Trade and Commerce
Commissioners and agenls, 1930-1936 Department
Estimates, 212, 1291, 1931 Reports in French, 828	'
Staff and salaries, 212 China and Japan, 1931, 1932 Russia, 1931, 1935 South America, 1934, 1935 West Indies, 215, 1295
Trawling. See Fish and Fisheries
Tree culture, 233
Tremain, Mr. H. B. (Hants)
Budget, 824
Opposition criticisms, 824 Protection and revenue, 825 Interest of the farmers, 826 Party co-operation necessary, 827 Trent canal
Commission, 632 Construction, 1712
Truax, Mr. R. E. (South Bruce)
Chesley public building, 1646
Tufts Cove drydock, 1647
Turgeon, Mr. Onesiphore (Gloucester) Bathurst harbour, 46 Budget, 700, 709
The war expenditures, 700 Financial conditions in Canada, 701 Taxation and British preference, 703, 712 Tariff and protection, 709 Economy of expenditure, 712 Encouragement of agriculture, 713 The war and a general election, 714 Controverted elections, 2024 Mizonnette lighthouse, 46 Parliamentary representation, 1465 Privilege-St. John Standard, 145 Soldiers, votes for, 2509
Turriff, Mr. John G. (Assiniboia)
Budget, 417
The war expenditures, 417 Ordinary expenditures, 418 The increased taxation, 420 The Civil Service, 423 Retrenchment and economy, 424 Farmers and the tariff, 426, 430 Taxation of British goods, 429 Canadian Northern Railway Company-extension of time, 759 Canadian Pacific Railway steamship services, 733, 754 Dominion elections Hours of polling, 1911 Voters' lists, 1898
Ferguson, Mr. T. R„ report of, 2572 Fisher, Captain E„ employment of, 517 Food exports, government control of, 542 Freight rates, proposed increase of, 351 Grain trade, 1944, 1947
Hudson Bay railway-wages of employees, 1395 '	.	'
Inland navigation rates, 253 Inland Revenue, Deputy Minister of, 438 Intercolonial railway-payments to Messrs.
Boulay, 2530 Longueuil dredging, 438 McQuarrie, Major, 2528 Maple sugar, adulteration of, 1793 Nickle, export of, 1937
Ottawa-buildings rented by Government, 148, 308
Privilege-Toronto Evening Telegram, 480 Railway capitalization, 288 Regina property purchase by Government, 2188
Soldiers, votes for, 2269, 2274, 2518
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Volume iii; 1785-2628
xxxviii
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Turriff, Mr. John G. (Assiniboia)-Con.
War supplies
Automobile tires, 1145 Comforts for soldiers, 292 Field glasses, 155 Pails, 152 Razors, 307
AVestern farmers, relief for, 71 Tyrian, steamer, repairs to, 1786 Unemployment. See Labour Union Life Assurance Company, 2317,-2372
Valcartier Camp
Accounts, payment of, 312 Fair-wage clause in government contracts, 240, 391
Land claims 522, 1546, 1739, 2621 Lighting, 2122 Lumber contracts, 2122 Selection, 1513 Stores, disposal of, 308 Supplies, destruction of, 149 Vallee, L. O., dismissal of, 436 Valley railway, operation of, 142 Vancouver Harbour
Commission, 1875 Improvements, 1975 Terminal Railway Company, 990 Verville, Mr. Alphonse (Maisonneuve)
Belgian immigration, 632 Budget, 1081
The Government's taxation policy, 1081 Public works expenditures, 1083 The made-in-Canada movement, 1083 Taxation of coal and raw materials, 1084 Effects of high tariffs, 1085 War and democracy, 1088 Carslake Hotel Company, claims of, 2528 Contrecoeur public works, 1651 Dominion elections-hours of polling, 2498 Fair-wage clause in government contracts, 240, 391
First Canadian contingent, British-born In, 610
Food exports, government control of, 540 Laprairie government road, 2159 Montreal-dismissals of public works employees, 1652 Post office Branch offices, 2296 Registered letters to members, 2296 Public works and industrial distress, 2040. See Budget
Railway employees, voting of, 2498, 2502 Soldiers, votes for, 2264, 2289, 2498, 2508
Verville, Mr. Alphonse (Maisonneauve)-Con.
Taxation-railway tickets, 1198 Telegraphers, conditions of employment of, 1786, 2532
Unemployment, 605. See Budget Winnipeg immigration officials, 392
Vezina's Corners postmastership, 1991
Victoria Memorial Museum. See Ottawa
Voters' lists, preparation of, 1594
Votes for soldiers. See Soldiers' Voting Bill
Wade, W. W., dismissal of, 1395
Wallaceburg customs collector, 766
War
Canadian forces-statement of mobilization and organization, 2364 Censorship, 1264, 1448, 1496, 1506, 1618 Cerebro-spinal meningitis among soldiers, 2529
Chaplains, 242 Enlistment, 438, 1456, 2531 Civil servants, 233, 312, 522 Expenditures, 1142, 1397. See AVar Appropriation Bill and War supplies First Canadian contingent, 610, 763 France, Canadian troops in, 204, 909 Home guard, 1516 Payment of soldiers, 2320 Pensions, 141, 1188, 1394, 1450 Princess Patricia regiment, transport of, 391
Railway engineering corps, 1525 Recruiting. See Enlistment Seeley, Colonel, command of, 1284 Shooting by sentries, 332, 2124 Soldiers
Cerebro-spinal meningitis among, 2529 Life insurance, 390 Mail matter for, 338, 1419, 1422 Payment of, 2320
Votes for. See Soldiers' Voting Bill v Supplier
Agents, employment of, 40. See Allison Allison J. Wesley, services of, 1145, 1452, 1508, 1669
Ammunition, 91,	242,	1451,	1506-1512,
1669, 1867
Automobile tires, 1145 Bicycles, 767, 995 Binoculars, 2188, 2372, 2602, 2605 Boots, 21, 48, 144, 149, 204, 244, 2372, 2450 British Government, for, 38, 2461, 2614 Canadian Manufacturers' Association, correspondence of, 1667, 2189, 2461 Canvas shoes, 389, 763 Carleton Drug Company, 2602, 2605, 2614
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Volume ii:	945-1783
Volume iii; 1785-2628

[Stage Direction]
War-Con.
Supplies-Con.
Clinic thermometers, 307, 521 Committee of Council, 1246, 1666 Corruption, charge of, 1144 Pair wage clause in Government contracts, 240, 391 Field glasses, 155 Hay, 140, 241, 1289, 1397 Horses, 149, 246, 249, 314, 388, 520, 607, 631, 766, 829, 894, 898, 994, 1146, 12301235, 1455, 1867, 1993, 2095-2196, 2602, 2606, 2613 Housewives, 1650 Investigations
Boots: notice of m. for special Com., 144; ref. to Com., 204; rep. of Com., 2372
Public Accounts Com.: ref. to Com., 945; announcement, 2538; rep. of Com., 2602
Medical, 149, 308, 315, 1526, 1866 Motor trucks, 306, 1145, 1186, 1290 Oliver equipment, 1992 Overshoes, 315, 762 Pails, 152 Razors, 307
Remounts. See Horses
Ross rifle, 306, 439
Saddles, 521, 632
Salisbury camp, 306, 439
Seasickness cure, 152	'
Sheepskins, 1866
Shells, 38, 2614
Fair wages in manufacture of, 490 Shovel shields, 437, 1235 Slippers, 389
System of purchase, 2602, 2610, 2614, 2617 Waterproof garments, 609 See Militia
Taxation. See that title
War Appropriation ($100,000,000) Bill. Res., 91, 1397. lr„ 1399,	2r„ 1653. Com.,
1653.	3r., 1681
Warnock, Mr. David (Macleod)
Waterloo lakes park, 236 Western farmers, relief for, 65, 1333
Washington, Canadian representative at, 2315
Water-power investigations, 234
Ways and Means, Committee of, 87, 1150, 1168, 1191; rep., 1217. See Budget and Taxation
Webster, Mr. John (Brockville)
Technical education, 1146
Weichel, Mr. William G. (North Waterloo)
Address In reply to Governor General's Speech
Tribute to Their Royal Highnesses, 4 Great Britain and the war, 5 Financial and trade conditions, 6 Made-in-Canada movement, 7 German-Canadians, 8 Unity of the Empire, 9 Deceased members, 10
Weights and measures, inspection of, 505, 510, .1720
Welland canal
Construction, 1710, 1713 Wages, rates of, 491
West Arichat customs, 898 West Indies, trade with, 215, 1295
Western Farmers Relief Bill. Res., 1328. lr., 1349.	2r., 1544. Com., 1544.	3r., 1544.
See 49, 632, 720, 768, 947, 1150, 1242, 1281; also Bank Act Amendment Bill
Wetaskawin settlers, grievances of, 1560, 1565
White, Mr. Gerald V. (North Renfrew) Pembroke drill hall, 2039
White, Hon. W. T. (Minister of Finance) Bank borrowings from Government, 147, 476
Bank loans for seed grain, 1242-1246, 1350. 1358
Battlefields commission, 1716 Budget, 80	.
Revenue and expenditure, SI, 82 Organization of oversea forces, 81 Debt and borrowings, 82 Special taxes, 85 Tariff taxation, 86
Economic conditions, actual and prospective, 90
Budget-amendment of Sir Wilfrid Daurier, 841
Reply to criticisms, 841 Expenditures of late Government, 841, 848, 853
National Transcontinental railway, 841
Public works, 845
World-Wide effects of war, 846
British preference, 849, 860
Public works and labour, 850
Proposed war taxation, 851, 854
Opposition alternatives, 855
Tax on railway tickets, 857
Postage, 857
Customs taxes, 858
Industrial and agricultural interests, 858 Taxation of banks, 859 Canada's share in war, 862
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[Stage Direction]


White, Hon. W. T. (Minister of Finance)

Con.
Casualty Company of Canada, 761 Finance-charges of management, 1715 Dominion notes, issue of, 146, 479, 1528, 1653
French treaty and war taxes, 1211, 1422 Loans, Imperial Government, to Canada, 146
Shortt, Mr. Adam, speech of, 655, 682 Taxation, war
- Customs	'
Agricultural implements, 1169, 1173 Bananas, 1166 Exemptions, 1151 Fertilizers, 1151, 1160, 1401 Gravel and sand, 1165 Newfoundland partridge berries, 1166 Revenue estimated, 1169 Silk, 1167 Spirits, 1152 Tea and coffee, 1168 Special
Bank circulation, .1191 Bills of exchange, cheques, etc., 1177, 1202-1204, 1407 Corporations, 1191-1197 French treaty, articles under, 12111216, 1422
Insurance companies, 1178, 1181, 1191 Letters and postcards, 1206 Exempted postal matter, 1413 Loan and trust companies, 1191, 1405 Modifications, proposed, 1177 Money orders, etc., 1205 Penalties, 1412, 1427, 1586-1588 Postal rates and stamp taxes, 14121422, 1586, 2624
Proprietary or patent medicines, 1209, 1423
Railway tickets, 1198-1201 Revenue estimated, 1208 Telegraphic messages, 1192, 1406 Vessel tickets, 1201 Wines, 1&11-1216, 1422	[DOT]
See Budget
Union Life Assurance Company, 2317, 2372
Wilcox, Mr. Oliver J. (North Essex)
Budget, 630, 689
Tax on fertilizers, 630, 695 Party truce, 689 Revenue and expenditure, 692 Obligations of Government, 693
Wilcox, Mr. Oliver J. (North Essex)-Con.
Budget-Con.
Hog cholera, 696 Political patronage, 696 What Government has accomplished, 697 Naval question, 698 Vital issues of the war, 699 Taxation
Fertilizers, 1162 Gravel, 1161, 1165
Wilson, Mr. Charles A. (Laval)
Capital punishment, 1228 Lavergne, Armand, Lieut.-Col., 1517 Real estate, titles to, 1222 Roy, Alex., Col., retirement of, 1516
Winding-Up Act Amendment Bill. lr„ 2121.
2r., 2195. Com., 2195. 3r., 2195.
Winnipeg
Immigration officials, 243, 392 Public buildings, 2041 Resident engineer, 765 Sewage, 2167 Volunteers, 313
Wireless stations, 1263, 1616, 1658
Wood, E. C., land patent of, 151
Woodworth, T. C., employment of, 2123
Wrecks. See Marine
Wrentham post office, 142
Wright, Mr. William (Muskoka)
Budget, 431, 442 Tariff policy, 431 Protection in Canada, 433 British preference, 434 Farming conditions in the west, 443 Trade and industry, 447 A non-partisan tariff board, 448 Experimental farms, 2072 Grain trade, 1952, 2192 Parcel post, 1385
Yarmouth
Fishery guardians, 313 flarbour improvements, 607, 1289, 2113 Marine hospital, 832 Postal service, 313, 1361
Yukon Placer Mining Act Amendment Bill.
lr., 514.	2r„ 1218. Com. and 3r„ 1218.
Sen. amdt., 1868
Yukon territory, 1393, 1580
Volume i:	1-944
Volume ii:	945-1783
Volume iii:	1785-2628