1904-03-14

[Stage Direction]
A Message was delieved by Ernest J. Chambers, Esquire, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod :
+i,M4r'TS-PEAKER-1 am commanded to inform you that His Excellency the Governor General desires and awaits the attendance of your honourable House in the Senate Chamber.
Accordingly the House went Into the Senate Chamber.
And the House being returned.

Mr. SPEAKER.: I have the honour to inform the House that I have received from the judges selected for the trial of election petitions, pursuant to ' The Dominion Controverted Elections Act,' certificates and reports relating to the elections
For the electoral district of the North Riding of the county of Ontario ; and
For the electoral district of the North Riding of the county of Grey.
hy which the said election petitions were dismissed.



FIRST READING.

[Stage Direction]
Bill (No. 1) respecting the administration of Oaths of Office.-Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister.)

Lawrence Geoffrey Power: I have the honour to inform the House that when the House did attend His Excellency the Governor General this day in the Senate Chamber, His Excellency was pleased to make a speech to both Houses of parliament, a copy of which is as follows :-
Honourable Gentlemen of the Senate:
Gentlemen of the House of Commons :
In again meeting you in parliament, it is our first duty to express our heartfelt thanks to a beneficent Providence for the abundant harvest with which the country has been fovoured during the past year, and for the general prosperity that prevails in all parts of the Dominion.
It is very gratifying to note that the yearly increasing trade of Canada.which has been so marked a feature of the past six years, gives no indication of any abatement, -while the number of settlers seeking homes in Manitoba and the Territories is without a parallel in the history of the country. These two very important facts lead irresistibly to the conclusion that long before the Transcontinental Railway, authorized by parliament at its last session, can possibly be completed, its urgent necessity as a medium for canj ing the products of the west to our own Atlantic ports will have become apparent, independently of the mauy benefits that will follow from the opening up for colonization and for various enterprises of the northern parts of Quebec and Ontario.
The agreement made with the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company regarding a new transcontinental railway, contained certain stipulations which in effect required the Grand Trunk' Railway Company of Canada to become a party to that agreement and to assume heavy obligations in respect thereof.
Further consideration of the agreement by the representatives of the Grand Trunk Railway Company and my government has resulted in showing the desirability of certain amendments to the contract which, having been approved by my government and subsequently by the ,board of directors and the shareholders of the Grand Trunk Railway Company, will be submitted to you for ratification.
The sum of $5,000,000 in cash has been deposited in the Bank of Montreal in accordance with the provisions contained in the original and supplemental agreements with the company.
A Militia Bill will be introduced containing several important amendments to the present law rendered necessary by the growth of the force and calculated to promote its efficiency.
A co"y of the award defining the boundary between the Dominion and Alaska, and other papers connected with the controversy, will be laid before you.
In view of the widely exetended settlements now forming in the Territories, it will become necessirv to increase the strength of the Northwest Mounted Police Force, and authority will be asked for that purpose.
Gentle//ten of the House of Commons:
The accounts of the past year will he laid before you. I am glad to say that the revenue

will exceed the expenditure, leaving a balance to be applied in reduction of the public debt.
The estimates for the coming year will be laid before jou at an early date.
Honourable Gentlemen of the Senate :
Gentlemen of the House of Commons :
After the long protracted session of the last year, when so many important matters were dealt with, it is not probable that your duties will involve your being detained on the present occasion for any lengthened period. X commend, however, to your best consideration the subjects to which I have referred, and I invoke the Divine Blessing on your deliberations



MEMBERS INTRODUCED.

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Louis Alfred Adhdmer Rivet. Esq., member for the electoral district of Hochelaga, intro duced by the Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister) and Hon. Sydney Fisher (Minister of Agriculture).
Armand Lavergne, Esq., member for the electoral district of Montmagny, introduced by the Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister) and Mr. Louis Lavergne.
Horace Haszard, Esq., member for the electoral district of West Queen's, P.E.I., introduced by Hon. H. R. Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals) and Mr. McKinnon.
Joseph E.: Armstrong, Esq., member for the electoral district of the East Riding of the county of Lambton, introduced by Mr. R. L. Borden and Mr. Clancy.


James J.: Donnelly, Esq., member for the electoral district of the East Riding of the county of Bruce, introduced by Mr. R. L. Borden and Mr. Clarke.
John Waterhouse Daniel, Esq., member for the electoral district of St. John city, introduced by Mr. R. L. Borden and Mr. Lefurgey.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE-GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC AGREEMENT.

Rt.   H@: That the speech of His Excellency the Governor General to both Houses of Parliament of the Dominion of Canada, be taken into consideration on Monday next.


Mr. R. L. BORDEN (Halifax).: Before the motion is adopted I would like to bring to the attention of the right hon. gentleman (Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid Laurier) the fact that reference is made in the speech to an agreement between the government and the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company, or gentlemen representing that company ; and I would like to know if it is the intention of the government to place that agreement upon the Table of the House before the address is taken into consideration ? As this is a subject of considerable importance, I should think it only right that the House should have the advantage of perusing the agreement before we enter into consideration of the speech from the Throne.


Sir WILFRID LAURIER.: I may inform my hon. friend (Mr. Borden, Halifax) that Mr. SPEAKER.
the message he refers to will be laid on the Table before the end of this sitting.


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Motion agreed to.
I

Wilfrid Laurier: That Select Standing Committees of this House for th-, present session be appointed for the following purposes 1. On Privileges and Elections. 2. On Expiring Laws. 3. On Railways, Canals and Telegraph Lines. 4. On Miscellaneous Private Bills. 5. On Standing Orders.
6. On Printing. 7. On Public Accounts. 8. On Banking and Commerce. 9. On Agriculture and Colonization-which sai_d committees shall severally be empowered to examine and inquire into all such matters and things as may be referred to them by the House ; and to report from time to time their observations and opinions thereon, with power to send for persons, papers and records.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.
Wilfrid Laurier: That a special committee of five members he appointed to prepare and report with all convenient speed a list of members to form the select standing committees ordered by this House on Thursday, February 13 instant, such select committee to be composed of the following members : Sir Wilfrid Laurier, Mr. R. L. Borden, Sir Richard Cartwright, Hon. James ' Sutherland and Hon. John Haggart.


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Motion agreed to.
OFFICIAL REPORT OB' THE DEBATES, j
Rt.   H@: 
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Motion agreed to.

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Report of the Joint Librarians of Parliament.-Mr. Speaker.

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,Ho'1;1S'r WILFRID LAURIER (Prime M mster) delivered a Message from His Excellency the Governor General.

Mr. SPEAKER read the Messng* lows
fol-

Minto.
of	''ernor General transmits to the Hoase
Alaiestv tv.118-?.11 agreement made between His Railway f?6	anii the Grand Trunk Pacific
in	ComPany dated March 8, 1904, varying
ment mt? ,resPeets the provisions of the agree-His Majesty and Sir Charles enmno "Ilson and others representing the said the a a c°Py which forms the schedule to cot A a Eflward VII., chapter 71, and he re-mmends the same for the favourable consideration of that honourable House.
Government House,
Ottawa, March 11, 1904.
Robert Laird Borden: Might I ask the right lion, gentleman (Rt. Hon. .Sir Wilfrid Lau-lrier) if he has had the amended agreement printed, notwithstanding the rules, which otherwise make it necessary to send it to the Committee on Printing V


Wilfrid Laurier: I am informed that the order has been given for the printing of this document, and it probably will be distributed on Monday.



ADJOURNMENT-PAPERS HE THE ALASKA BOUNDARY AWARD.

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Rt. Hon. Sir WILFRID LAURIER (Prime Minister) moved the adjournment of the House.
Mr.   R.@: L, BORDEN. Before the motion is adopted, I would like to say that I understood from my right hon. friend yesterday, that the papers relating to the Alaskan Boundary Treaty and Award would be laid upon the Table of the House this week. Perhaps my right hon. friend meant some later date. They have not been laid upon the Table of the House up to the present time.


Wilfrid Laurier: I expected that these papers, a portion of them, the award at all events, would be laid upon the Table this week. It may be that I am mistaken ; at all events, hon. members will have them in their boxes I hope at a very early date.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to, and House adjourned at «-55 p.m.
[Stage Direction]
Monday, March 14, 1904.

the House to be necessary on account of a decision of the Supreme Court rendered since the prorogation of parliament last fall. The object is to amend the section of the Act of 1903 in regard to trains crossing the highway at rail-level within the incorporated limits of cities, towns and villages. Until last session the law was that trains were not allowed to run at a higher rate of speed than six miles an hour in the thickly peopled portions of cities, towns and villages unless protection were provided by watchmen and gates. When we were revising the law last session it had been decided by the Court of Appeal in Ontario that it was for the judge -or jury, in a case tried by jury-to decide whether protection was required at any crossing where an accident happened if the rate of speed exceeded the statutory, limit. Last session Hon. Mr. Blair, then leading the government in regard to railway measures, induced this House to increase the limit of speed at these crossings to ten miles an hour. I believe that, had this House known or suspected that the Supreme Court would reverse the decision of the Court of Appeal of Ontario, this Act would have been amended by the unanimous decision of both sides in this House in the way I here propose. It works out in this way : The Supreme Court having decided in the way it has, the section as it stands is of no practical value and should either be removed from the statute-book, or this amendment should be made to it, in order to give it the effect originally intended. The effect of my amendment would he that, if the speed of ten miles an hour is exceeded at a crosing at rail-level within the incorporated limits of a city, town or village, the railway company must maintain a watchman at that point. Too many people are being killed by reason of the speed at which trains run within the incorporated limits of cities, town and villages. There is an outcry because of trains running over these crossings at forty or fifty miles an hour, with no protection for the public provided. I am not advocating the limiting of speed, but only seeking to provide that if they exceed ten miles an hour at crossings within incorporated limits, the railway company shall provide watchmen. They can run without watchmen if they run at no more than ten miles an hour ; but if they wish to increase the speed within incorporated limits, they must have watchmen at all points where they cross the highway at rail-level.
Motion agreed to, and Bill read the first time.


Mr.  E. A.@: LANCASTER (Lincoln and Niagara) moved for leave to introduce Bill (No. 2) to amend the Railway Act, 1903. He said : Mr. Speaker, this Bill will be found by
Bill (No. 3) to amend the Criminal Code, 1892.-Mr. Lancaster.
Bill (No. 4) to amend the Act respecting certificates to masters and mates of ships.- Mr. Lancaster.



COMMON'S ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.

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, The House proceeded to the consideration of His Excellency's speech at the opening of the session.
Mr. G. D. GRANT (North Ontario).: year 1903 the farmers of this country exported of their own produce $114,000,000 worth, there being an increase of $18,000,000 over the previous year's export and an increase of $64,000,000 over the export of 1896. I ^need not go into the different articles. I need not quote the returns of the different products, but when we remember that in 1903 our farmers and cheese men sold of cheese $24,000,000 worth, of butter $7,000,000 worth, of hams and bacon $16,000,000 worth, of wheat $24,000,0(10 worth, and of cattle $11,000,000 worth, it will convey to us some faint idea of the growing importance of the industry of agriculture and furthermore of the splendid strides it has been making during the past few years in Canada. Being myself a solicitor, practising in a small way in a country town, I have some practical knowledge of What the farmers, at least of my own province, are doing. I can say from my experience and knowledge of the state of affairs in the province of Ontario at least, and I doubt not but what it is true of the other provinces, that the farmers are paying off their mortgage indebtedness and paying it off very rapidly. Mr. Speaker, if a farmer comes into a solicitor's office to borrow money to-day it is not because he is going behind. It is because he wants to buy the fifty acres next to him or the 100 acres across the road, and the man who has sold the fifty or 100 acres to him is not going away to Dakota disgusted and disgruntled, but very likely he is retiring with a competence to live in comfort in the adjoining town, or if a young man. is going to our Northwest there to join in making a home amongst the many hundreds and thousands who are settled in that fertile country. Why do I quote these figures ? It is not for the purpose, let me assure you, Mr. Speaker, of recording any party advantage, or of building an argument thereon-and I quite confess an indisputable argument might easily be built thereon for the retention of the present government and its policy-but for the purpose of strengthening and confirming, if it were necessary, the conviction bf every one, that it is a good thing to be a citizen of Canada in this fair day of hope and progress.
Sir. let me refer to our great western country. The speech from the Throne would have been singularly lacking had it not spoken of the wonderful growth which Western Canada has experienced. I hesitate to quote figures ; I hesitate to set an array of statistics before the House on such an occasion ; but I cannot refrain from giving a few figures which bear on the development of the West. When I state, that the immigration to Canada last year (1903) comprised 128,000 souls, it will be apparent at a glance that there has been a great influx of settlement, and I may add that two-thirds of these new comers were English speaking citizens. These figures show an increase over the figures of the previous year of 44,000,


George Davidson Grant: or more than fifty per cent, and they represent eight times the number who came to Canada in the year 1896. Why, Sir, last year, from the United States alone, 47,000 immigrants came to settle in Canada, and so far as we know these belong to the most desirable class that we could possibly attract to our country. And how has this happened ? Has the Canadian west not been there from time immemorial; have these fertile prairies not been there ever since there has been a Canada ; ever since there has been a government of Canada ! How is it that only of late years has that long dormant land awakened up to settlement ! I trust. Sir, that I am not going beyond the reasonable bounds of courtesy and etiquette to be observed on such an occasion when I say that the credit of that splendid development and growth is due largely to the vigorous policy and generous treatment which the Department of the Interior has meted out to that western country. Why, for the fiscal year 1903, we find that there were 31,383 homestead entries taken out in that western land, being more than double the entries of the year previous and eighteen-fold greater than the entries for the year 1895-6. And, Sir, I have made inquiry and I find that for the first eight months of this year there have been over 16,000 entries, and the great rush which is confidently expected this spring, will no doubt insure that the figures for the current year will greatly outstrip those for the year I have just mentioned. Is it not reassuring to remember that during the year last past, there was made available and open for settlement, in fact disposed of for settlement in our great West, nine and a quarter millions of acres ? In this is included of course the land sold by the colonization companies, the railway companies having land grants, the Hudson's Bay Company, and our own Department of the Interior. The Department of the Interior alone disposed of for settlement over 5,000,000 acres of land last year. This was an increase over the year 1896 of fifty-fold and more. Now, Sir, when we remember that the total yield of wheat in that western country was between 60,000,000 and 70,000,000 bushels last year, we perhaps can form some idea of what a fabulously rich asset we have in Manitoba and the Territories. I might multiply figures and quote statistics further, but I shall have mercy upon the House, and I shall content myself with saying, that the growth and the expansion recorded by our great west during the past three or four years, is unparalleled by any country in the history of the world. There is this to be said : that both Manitoba and the Northwest Territories are, as time goes on, getting more independent; I mean in a financial way, and nowadays, it would take more than one bad harvest to seriously hamper any of the western provinces. Such, Sir, is the story of our west, and I have but touch-

of Canada have been those most free of interruption by snow and storm. The main line of the Canadian Pacific Railway, running through the northern part of the province of Ontario, has been very slight^ impeded ; and I am told on very good authority that the Quebec and Lake St. John Railway, probably the most northerly one in Canada, running for a distance of about 200 miles from Quebec to Roberval, has run every train, both freight and passenger, on schedule time throughout the whole of the year. And that railway, I believe, runs through a country very similar to that which will be traversed by the eastern division of the Grand Trunk Railway. Therefore we may dismiss that bogey from our minds.
The government is to be commended, in my humble -opinion, for holding intact the main features of the contract of last year. The variations of the contract are not in any way material, and do not in any manner tend to jeopardize the successful issue of the project. As these modifications and alterations have been published in full, and are on the desk of every hon. member, I shall not weary the House by going into them in detail. Perhaps the most important amendment is that which relates to the guarantee of the bonds of the mountain section. By the original contract the government agreed to guarantee the bonds of that section to the extent of $30,000 a mile. Under the amended agreement the guarantee will be for three-fourths of the cost of construction ; it may be more or it may be less than $30,000 a mile. Then the time for the completion of the western division is extended from 1908 to 1911. In view of the delays that have unavoidably taken place, that extension can, of course, be quite justified. The original contract, as you will perhaps remember, did not provide a time limit for the construction of the eastern division. While the Grand Trunk Pacific Company were bound to construct the western division within a certain time, the government were not bound by a time limit for the construction of the eastern division. Under the amended contract, as I read it, it is provided that in the event of the western division being completed and equipped with rolling stock to the amount of $15,000,000 before the eastern division is completed by the government, the company shall be entitled to the return of the $5,000,000 deposit, which, by the way, has been put up in cash as provided by the original contract. It will be noticed, however, that the original obligation to equip the line to the amount of $20,000,000 of which $5,000,000 is assigned to the eastern division, remains to be complied with when the eastern division is completed by the government. These two amendments, with the additional amendment regarding the holding of the common stock by the old Grand Trunk Railway Company, are, to my mind, the three Mr. GRANT.
important amendments. But, I repeat, these amendments leave the main features of the contract of last year undisturbed. We had,
I believe, an advantageous contract with the Grand Trunk people last year ; I believe we have an advantageous contract with them this year. The contract remains in all essential respects just as advantageous a contract for the country as it stood before.
Among other matters of a domestic nature that were freely discussed during the late recess, was the ever-present question of the tariff. Now, Sir, even among those who clamour for a stiff and arbitrary advance of the tariff all along the line, there is by no means unanimity as to what change or changes should be made. Of course, the ultra-protectionists clamour for a very substantial increase ail along the line. Other promoters of the agitation single out special industries which they assert are suffering by undue competition from without. The great mass of the consumers of this country have not yet been heard from, nor do they possess any organization by which they can, as a body, make their wants and wishes known. The consuming public have not the opportunity of recording their views at conferences or conventions, as other interests have. The great body of the people can express their convictions and their wishes on this and kindred matters only at the polls.
Now, Sir. I do not for one moment say that the existing tariff is a perfect tariff. A perfect tariff-that is, one to suit all the different sections of this great country, with its frequently changing conditions, and its many diverse interests-could only be framed and put into operation by perfect men ; that is to say, by a government composed of perfect members.
Well, Mr. Speaker, I quite admit that the 3 present administration is about as perfect an administration as ordinary human limitations will allow; but, I do not claim for them that they have been able, or will ever ; be able to form a tariff that will suit everybody, all the manufacturers and all the j consumers, always and at all times. I do put forward this claim, however,-and ; I say it with the assurance derived from the i records-that the present tariff, on the ; whole, has been a very satisfactory tariff : for Canada. And on what do I base this claim? First and foremost, our present tariff has been a good revenue producer. It has fulfilled one of the main functions of a tariff in that it has produced abundant rev- ; enue. I have already referred in part, to the figures since 1897, and I need not speak * further of our constantly enhanced receipts from customs. When I say broadly that the Minister of Finance was able to declare last year a surplus of fourteen or fifteen millions and this year will be able to sho^ even larger surplus, and when I say that wo are told on authority that there will* in all probability, be a further reduction

Hon. Gentlemen of the Senate :
Gentlemen of the House of Commons :
After the long protracted session of the last year, when so many important matters were dealt with, it is not probable that your duties will involve your being detained on the present occasion for any lengthened period.
I have no desire to make any invidious references or enter into any particulars, but simply throw out the suggestion to hon. gentlemen opposite, in the best of good feeling', that they would deserve well of their country if they would unite with gentlemen on the treasury benches in the endeavour to carry out the wish expressed by His Excellency and thus prove that the hope he indulged is not a vain one. I might perhaps enlarge on this theme, but I find that I am exceeding the limit of time at my disposal. Once more the representatives of the people are gathered together in parliament to devise measures for the good of our country. Never before in the history of this Dominion has its outlook been so bright. With the public treasury overflowing, with the fertile areas of our western country rapidly filling up with home-seekers and home-makers, with settlers and capital seeking our shores, surely it is incumbent on us to devise liberal measures, measures commensurate with the growth of Canada and her prospects, to meet the increasing demands of our rapidly increasing trade. All irritating questions of a racial and sectional type being happily out of the way, clean gone for ever, I fervently hope, Mr. Speaker, -thanks in the main to the master mind which has guided the destinies of this country since the Liberal party have come to office-we may confidently look forward to a lengthy period' of national growth and prosperity. The people of Canada need have no fear for the future, if measures bold and wise be devised for our development. In the great task of building up a nation on the northern half of this continent we must see that we lay the foundation strong, firm and sure. Let us be true to our splendid traditions, let us use wisely the magnificent heritage with which Providence has endowed us, and we cannot fail, in our day and generation, to contribute much to the up-building of our beloved Canada.


Mr. L. A. RIVET (Hochelaga).: (Translation.) Mr. Speaker, the task which devolves upon me of seconding the address in answer to the speech from the Throne carries with it a responsibility, the thought of which impresses me particularly. I would have been tempted to avoid it had I not been assured of your indulgence and prompted by a deep sense of my duty towards my province and my country. I must say, however, that the able and eloquent remarks .iust made by the hon. member for North Ontario (Mr. Grant) have rendered that task much easier for me to fulfil.


George Davidson Grant: chose as its leaders on the 23rcT of June, 1896, and in whom to-day it has deservedly put its faith.
The most important measure announced in the speech from the Throne is, no doubt, the ratifying of the amendments made to the agreement with the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company for the construction of the transcontinental! railway.
I wish, in the first place, Mr. Speaker, to express my deep satisfaction at the fact that these amendments do not in any way alter the original policy of the government on that national issue, and do not alter any essential feature of the agreement originally passed with the company. It is specially gratifying to me to note that the government persist, in spite of some interested criticisms, in their intention to build the eastern section of that great line. The building of that section, the main object of which is to give to our western farmers an all-Canadian railway line operated throughout the year and leading to our seaports, and also to develop those immense regions of northern Ontario and northern Quebec, seems to become more and more a plain necessity. I do not ask for better proof than the state-rnents made before the Canadian Club, on the 24tli February last, by Sir Sandford Fleming, our ablest expert in Canada. The statements on which that eminent authority based his approval of the building of the whole transcontinental in accordance with the government plan, have been published in the newspapers, and I need not repeat them here. I shall be content with saying that the force of such testimony is unquestionable. On the other hand, Dr. Bell, the noted geologist, has given recently on the agricultural, mineral and forest wealth of that eastern region an opinion which corroborates the testimony of Sir Sandford Fleming.
We have been apprised, Mr. Speaker, of the motives which have suggested that great plan of a new transcontinental railway. To connect the shores of the Atlantic to those of the Pacific by a new and allCanadian route, to open up for settlement immense regions abounding in mineral, agricultural and forest wealth, to ensure new outlets for the products of the west, where immigration from Europe and the United States is constantly pouring in ; lastly, to ensure the commercial independence and liberty of Canada. Such were tlie main reasons which the Prime Minister pointed out to the House in commendation of the scheme. These reasons, which the whole country approved of a few months ago, are to-day as cogent as ever. Let the transcontinental railway be built at once. Mr. RIVET.
such is the general wish of the people, as expressed by the result of the by-elections and voiced by enlightened business men and our ablest and most reliable experts in Canada.
As regards the amendments made to the agreement, they will, no doubt, have the approval of parliament. Those amendments are of such a kind as to leave no place for conflicting opinions. The terms of the contract were so much in favour of the government, certain conditions were so stringent on the company, that one could foresee how difficult it would be for the company to carry out the whole of its obligations. Unfortunately, those fears materialized. In spite of their good will and good faith, the company were at first unable to^make the cash deposit of five million dollars required by law. However, the recent and happy news of the replacing of the interim deposit by a legal one will be gratifying to the country as a whole. The increase in the government guarantee as regards the mountain section, which, as intimated officially a few days ago, forms one of the proposed amendments, will be approved of by all who will take the pains to investigate the immense difficulties which the company may encounter in the building of that part of the road.
The new recourse granted to bondholders is evidence of the wish of the government to protect more effectively those who are willing to invest their funds in the carrying out of this national undertaking. On that point, as on many others, England is letting us have the benefit of her practical ability and of her old-time experience in the management of public affairs. Our leaders could not seek inspiration at a better source or find a nobler example to follow. The additional delay of three years granted to the company for the building of the western section is a change of small importance, which only shows the willingness of the government to grant all the necessary liber-cari'ylng through of a work which will last for centuries.
xn oiiua
m Liiese amendments are commendable, inasmuch as they are in accord with the spirit of the original agreement, and are further evidence of the government's resolve to carry through an undertaking from which all parties interested are destined to reap great advantage. For those reasons. Sir, it would be desirable that no voice should be heard in this House in opposition to the Act introduced by the gov-eminent.
I did not make reference to a question < tlie greatest interest to tlie electoral dtvisic w nch has chosen me as its represen tativ that question, raised by our opponents, o

public contracts. Then the bon. member for North Norfolk continued as follows :
There is no subsidy in this contract. Now, Sir, I desire to refer to the wise provisions in the public interests contained in this agreement. Care has been taken in this respect. We have not a Minister of Railways and Canals with carte blanche in the construction of a transcontinental line. This would be a very pleasant condition, no doubt, for a public official to occupy.
And the present Minister of Railways and Canals (Hon. Mr. Emmerson) said :
And in that very attitude, it seems to me, he shows an .inconsistency which would almost lead one to conjecture that the real cause of his resignation was not the building of another line from the province of Quebec to the maritime provinces.
And my hon. friend from Hants (Mr. Russell) was particularly bitter. I shall not quote bis words, but they can be found by any bon. gentleman who desires to examine ' Hansard.' And my bon. friend from Victoria (Hon. Mr. Ross) used the following language with regard to Mr. Blair.


Hon. Mr. ROSS.: And I stand by it now.


Robert Laird Borden: The bon. member for Victoria tells us that he stands by these words :
I wonder if he had been asked to be the leader of this great commission that is to conduct this railway ipolicy, what his conduct would be and where we wop Id find him now. Well, let me say to them that an ex-Min,istsr of Railways and Canals does not count much in this country now, and when a man loses his seat in the government he loses his power and his influence.
That was the view of the situation entertained by my bon. friend from Victoria (Hon. Mr. Ross). The matter, therefore, stood in this position. There was a charge of absolute folly, of an absolute waste and squandering of public money made by Mr. Blair against the government. Not only that, but there was the charge, as interpreted by my bon. friend the Minister of Justice (Hon. Mr. Fitzpatrick), of unworthy motives in the making of this contract, which has been so much lauded. The government proposed to bring on an election. About that there cannot be much doubt. We have it on the authority of my hon. friend the Solicitor General (Mr. Lemieux). We also have the fact that campaign literature was distributed throughout the country. We also had the government putting up tlieir candidates in the majority of constituencies, and making every possible preparation for a general election. But, if all tales be true, a man came from New Brunswick and told my right hon. friend that that province was not in very good shape, and could not be counted on if Mr. Blair should take a part in the fight. What followed ? It was felt that it would be much better to have Mr. Blair disappear, and negotiations were entered into with the view of procuring his silence. And with all these charges of unworthy Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).
motives and absolute folly unretracted and still ringing in their ears, the government appointed this gentleman to one of the highest positions at their disposal. I do not know what explanation my right hon. friend will give us, but this much must be said of Mr. Blair, that if the government have given him this certificate, both of ability and character, by appointing him chairman of the Railway Commission, every one of these hon. gentlemen opposite who attacked him, every one who called him shifty, as the hon. member for Hants did, and who belittled him in every way and imputed unworthy motives to him-every one of these gentlemen must do one of two things. They must either rise in their place and condemn the government for having appointed Mr. Blair to that position or apologize to Mr. Blair for the unfounded attacks they had made on him.
Mr. Speaker, the commission which has been appointed is one which has most important judicial duties to perform, and certain administrative duties also. It will have control over vast public and private interests, and it should be composed of men of the highest ability and absolutely beyond suspicion. Mr. Blair has charged the government with unworthy motives. He has denounced their transcontinental railway scheme as a wanton and senseless waste of public money. Not one of these charges has he ever retracted. On the other hand, the government have declared that Mr. Blair was actuated by unworthy motives. The men they put up to reply to Mr. Blair belittled him in every possible way. They called him shifty, insincere, and even treacherous. Yet the government have appointed this man to this important position. Was it or was it not their object to remove Mr. Blair by this means from their path in tire province of New Brunswick and throughout the country ? Can any other conclusion than that such was their object be drawn by any fair minded man in this House or country ? If there be any other conclusion which can be drawn, I have.no doubt that my right lion, friend (Sir Wilfrid Laurier), with that ability and ingenuity which always characterizes his utterances in this House, will be able to devise some reason for the appointment to this commission of a gentleman so opposed to the railway policy of the government.
This commission is an important one, and when the government, during last session, called upon us to vote large salaries for the men who were to compose it, there was not very much opposition from this side of the House. There was not from myself any word of protest. We realized that the men who should be called on to perform the
i.uties of that commission ought to be me'1 who would command a liberal salary. But. ii I might venture to make a suggestion 't seems to me that when the Appropriation Bill for that purpose was before the House,


Robert Laird Borden: unit in demanding for themselves the same powers of self-government which are enjoyed by the people of the older provinces. The Minister of the Interior (Hon. Mr. Sif-ton) recognized some time ago-whether he does now or not-the importance of this subject, because on the 21st of March, 1901, three years ago, in writing to the premier of the Northwest Territories he said :
I may say that I realize very fully the difficulties of the position in which the government and legislative assembly of the Northwest Territories is placed, and I admit that there is very much in the suggestions which are made in your letter and in the memorial regarding the necessity of a change in the constitutional and financial position of the Territories.
Without at the present moment committing myself to any positive statement I am prepared to say that the time has arrived when the question of organizing the Territories on the provincial basis ought to be the subject of fun consideration. It would appear to me- that the better way of bringing the matter to a more definite position would be to arrange for a conference upon the subject between the representatives of your government and a committee of council representing the federal government.
That meeting has, I believe, taken place. The matter has been occupying the attention of the government for three years. My hon. friend from North Ontario (Mr. Grant) said that the question of tariff revision was now about to occupy the attention of the government. Well, if the government do not proceed any more rapidly with tariff revision than with provincial autonomy, three years will elapse before there will be any tariff revision and I do not know how much longer afterwards. Sir, the people of tlie Northwest Territories are entitled to tlie same rights of self-government as are enjoyed by the people of the older provinces. According to the census and according to tlie estimate made by the government of the number of settlers who went into that country last year, there are no fewer than 350,000 people in the Territories, and I have no double that by midsummer the population will perhaps be 400,000. Why should not the right of self-government be granted to them ; why should they not have the same rights over their public domain, their lands and minerals as are enjoyed by the provinces of eastern Canada ? Why should not the people of the Northwest Territories be entitled, if they see fit, to incur debt for the purpose of giving to themselves adequate railway development. The railway which is proposed by the government is a single line of railway running across the continent and no such line of railway unless it has sufficient branches, can ever meet tile needs of the people of the Northwest Territories. They know best what they desire in that respect. They know wliat branch lines are necessary ; and if the people of Prince Iidward Island, if the people of British Columbia, a province with n small population but with enormous re-


Robert Laird Borden: than was accomplished by the former one ; because all that was accomplished by the former deposit and by the guarantee was that three or four years afterwards the guarantee was given up, and some five years afterwards we were called upon to vote an appropriation to return that deposit with interest. My right hon. friend on that occasion went further. He said :
It is with joy indeed that I welcome this explosion of satisfaction at the announcement that this scheme has not failed, but that it is to be carried -through. I know that in some quarters this idea of having this passenger traffic amongst us was not popular; but, Sir, let me say to you that if there is a patriotic idea in the land it is the idea that we should not only carry the freight, but carry the passengers between America and Europe. We can do it, we ought to do it, and now it is no longer in donht.
I may mention for the benefit of my right hon. friend that that speech was made by him on the 7th day of October, 1897, just six years and a half ago. The language of my right hon. friend on that occasion was eloquent. It almost reminded one of some of the eloquent phrases in which he introduced the transcontinental railway measure last year. In fact, I do not know that at any time in his speech of last year he soared to greater heights than he did when he told the country that the fast Atlantic service was no longer a matter ^of doubt. Well, what have the government accomplished since ? Has any step been taken ? A good deal of water has run under the bridges since that time ; the Boer war has been begun and ended ; but nothing has been done for the fast Atlantic service. What do the government propose to do ? Have they anything to say to tlie House with regard to this measure which is important not only to the maritime provinces, but to every province and every Individual in Canada ?
My hon. friend from North Ontario (Mr. Grant) referred also, and I trust in no faultfinding spirit, to the fact that the government had made no mention in the speech from the Throne of any step being taken towards rounding off this Confederation by including in it the Island of Newfoundland.
I commend my hon. friend from North Ontario for the independence he has shown in calling attention to this omission in the speech from the Throne. It is Worthy of the high opinion I have always had of that hon. gentleman, that he should have called the attention of the House to the omission of this all-important matter. Newfoundland has been called the ' sentinel of the St-Lawrence.' I should like to see it called the ' sentinel of Canada ' in the St. Lawrence, and to see this confederation rounded out by bringing that island in as a part of this great Dominion of which we are all so proud. In the debate on the speech from the Throne last year, I did suggest to the government that it would be a step worthy


Robert Laird Borden: 

the right hon. gentleman has not made very plain.
In conclusion I wish to go back for a moment to a subject which I have already mentioned, the attitude of this government in the first place with regard to the amendment to the Transcontinental Railway Act, and in the second place to the appointment of Hon. Mr. Blair as chairman of the Railway Committee. Does my right hon. friend remember his language of last year ? Does he remember his words when he said :
To those who urge upon us the policy of to-morrow and to-morrow and to-morrow ; to those who tell us, wait, wait, wait ; to those who advise us to pause, to consider, to reflect, to calculate and to linquire', otur answer is : No, this is not a time for deliberation ; this Is a time for action. The flood of tide is upon us that leads on to fortune ; if we let it pass it may never recur again. If we let it pass, the voyage of our national life, bright as it is to-day, will be bound in shallows. We cannot wait because time does not wait ; we cannot "wait because in these days of wonderful development, time lost is doubly lost.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to inquire in view of that language of my right hon. friend how it is that when this measure was consummated by the signing of this agreement, when that agreement bound the gentlemen who were parties to it, when these gentlemen declared that this road was to go on, when these gentlemen put up a guarantee representing one million pounds sterling, when they declared through their official head that they were prepared to go on with the railway this spring without amendment, liow is it that my right hon. friend has called to them : Wait, wait, wait, till we get before parliament and give you further concessions. What about the flood tide then ? He did not then regard the flood-tide but hastened the opening of parliament in order that there might be further amendments.
But, at that time he said further :
Such is pur duty ; it iis immediate and imperative. It is not of to-morrow, but of this day, of this hour, and of this minute. Heaven grant that it may not be already too late'; Heaven grant that wMilst we 'tarry and dispute, the trade of Canada is not deviated to other channels.
Then he insisted upon haste. Now he says, " Wait, wait, wait, until we once more go before parliament with practically a new measure, and can insert in this agreement a provision providing that this railway shall be completed not in 1908, but in 1911. He now says wait, wait, wait until we can attach a provision to this contract by reason of which the completion of this road should' be delayed for three years beyond the time in which it was to be completed if the contract as originally designed had been carried out.


Robert Laird Borden: 
Some hon. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.


Wilfrid Laurier: In matters of obstruction.


Some hon. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.


Wilfrid Laurier: When the day of prorogation came, and in fact, the snow whitened the tops of the hills and if we had remained a few weeks longer it would have also whitened the vales. Five months have not yet elapsed since the day of prorogation. My hon. friends should allow us some time to' breathe. The members of this House Generally, are men of business. They have to earn their living, to attend to their own avocations and five months is not too long for the members of this House to attend to (heir own affairs before being called again to discharge the business of the country. I apprehend from what my hon. friend has said that it may be that the length of this session called at this moment may carry us into the season when members of this House would perhaps be better employed at then own business. There is a way, however, bj which we can correct any inconvenience that may arise from the late summoning of parliament and that is by preparing for an early closing of it. If my hon. friend will not act altogether upon the reproach which he made to my hon. friend from North Ontario (Mr. Grant), if the speeches are not too Jong, it the floodgates of eloquence are kept under control, perhaps we may expect that tun
House shall not have a session of eight months, not even a session of five months, but that we may prorogue m time som all of us may go to the country and j . the pure air in the leafy month of June.


Robert Laird Borden: Has that right ever been denied to Canada ?


Wilfrid Laurier: 
Robert Laird Borden: 
Wilfrid Laurier: If never granted.


Robert Laird Borden: Has it ever We9 denied 1


Wilfrid Laurier: It never was applied for yet.


Mr.   R.@: 
Wilfrid Laurier: will look at the Montreal 'Star ' any day for the last twelve months or so you will see at the head of the editorial page a standing pronunciamento :



TO THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA.

[Stage Direction]
Give the manufacturers, workingmen, and farmers of Canada the same kind of tariff as that which has made the United States the home of the most prosperous manufacturers, workingmen and farmers in the world.
' The home of the most prosperous manufacturers, the working men hnd farmers of the world.' I say the home of factions, combines and anarchists.

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Force the government to give you as good a tariff as that which has made the American manufacturers rich. When you get this tariff, pay your Canadian workmen American wages.
I pity the poor Canadian workmen if they get American wages instead of good Canadian wages.

[Stage Direction]
Take a leaf out of the book of the American workingman. Help your employers to obtain for themselves and for you a Canada-for-Canadians tariff.
Why, Sir, is it at this moment, when the people and the government of the United States are endeavouring to free themselves from the shackles which have been coiled around them by the manufacturers, the trusts, the combines, which are the direct creation of the tariff that we are called upon-to be so foolish and so criminal as to put our limbs into these shackles ? Is it at a time when manufacturers in the United States are closing their mills right and left that we are to adopt the policy which has brought about the distress that to-day exists in that country ? Is it at a time when American workmen have their wages decreased by ten, twenty or even forty per cent that Canadian workmen are asked to be so unmindful, so ignorant of their own interests as to adopt the American tariff ? No, Sir. For my part, much as I admire the United States-and I have never had any hesitation in declaring that I have the greatest admiration for that great people, for they are a great people, and no one can read their history without admiration of the qualities that they have displayed-great as is my admiration for the United States, yet, if we are to seek an example, it is not to the United States that I would look for it. We can do better. I do not want to seek my examples anywhere than in this land of Canada. We have better institutions and a better fiscal policy than theirs. We have a fiscal policy of moderation. Their fiscal policy is a policy of exaggeration. It has brought that country, I will not say to the verge of civil war. But tonday what do you find in the United States ? You find a condition which is not healthy, a condition different from that
Wilfrid Laurier: which you find in Canada. At the top of the United States social system you find the wealthy manufacturers, the monopolists, and combinesters who have made the coun-' try simply a tribute payer to their organizations. And what do you find at the bottom ? Almost anarchy, strikes almost in permanence; you find labour institutions going the length of declaring a penalty against the members of their institutions who become members of the militia, thus refusing the very first duty that the citizen owes to his country. This is the condition which exists in the United States and this is the example which hon. gentlemen on the other side tell us we should follow. Far distant be the day when we shall seek an example of the United States to guide ns in fiscal or in other matters. No, Sir, we will continue as we have commenced ; we will remain simply ourselves ; and, to use a good Canadian phrase, we will paddle our own canoe. We will continue the course we have advocated in the past; we will maintain ourselves as we have commenced ; we will continue the policy of common sense, calmness and moderation which has already done so much for the Canadian people, for their fair name and for their general prosperity.


Mr. W. F. MACLEAN (East York).: 
Mr. CAMPBELL.: Have you made an estimate of the cost ?


William Findlay Maclean: Yes, I have made an estimate of the cost, and I may tell my hon. friend that if the government had gone to the Grand Trunk people in London and said: We will assume your liabilities and make some small provision for the common stock, they could have got that road. Let me tell the hon. gentleman that it is not the Grand Trunk shareholders who pay for the maintenance of this road but the people in Canada who use the road. They have paid the debt and are paying the debt and should control the road and use it towards the solution of the transportation problem. _ My right hon. friend deprecated this action of tlie present chairman of the Railway Commission in leaving his government on that issue. H011. Mr. Blair believed or was coming to the belief that national ownership was the real solution of the question. He took that view in this House and was prepared, I believe, to take over the Canada Atlantic Railway for the same purpose, and instead of making a mistake I say tlmt he brought forward a policy which u-ouhl bine done a great deal for the mimedi.
provement of the transportation farflit es or
this country. He made no mistake, but oil the contrary proposed something that was in

the interests of all the people. The characteristic of all the legislation and discussion before the world to-day is that it is moving on the lines of national ownership. Municipal ownership has done everything for the cities of Great Britain and the principle is spreading, in European countries they derive great benefits from the state operation of railways. In the United States they think they can secure a great measure of relief from the high charges of the railways if the railways were owned by the country. It may he impossible for, them to accomplish that end now but it would be easy for us to take over the Grand Trunk Railway, to combine it with the Intercolonial and to make a national system not only giving the people reduced freights but making a road which would be a power in reducing the charges of the Canadian Pacific Railway of which the people in the west complain. That is practical politics, earnest politics, an endeavour to solve the transportation problem, and Hon. Mr. Blair was moving along that line but lie got no credit for it and to-day is told that he made the mistake of his life. The people of Ontario and Quebec to-day are looking for lower passenger rates. Is there any way to get them other than to take over the railways ?. If the Grand Trunk be taken over and a passenger rate of 2 cents a mile be given on it, we would have every road in this country giving a 2 cents a mile rate. This would be going a long way in solving the transportation problem and in a moderate way it would secure the opening up of the back country of Canada I think we should have a two cent rate and that it will come. Government ownership to my mind is the only way to obtain relief and I believe it is on lines of that kind that the people of Canada are looking for improvement. They want to have something done and this is the only way to bring relief to the farmer, to the man who raises stock.	_
We have great stock industries all over this country, in Quebec and Ontario,, and the people engaged in these industries wish to get their cattle to market without having to submit to exorbitant rates and there is no way of accomplishing that result except by adopting the principle of government ownership and in that way giving the relief that these people require. The farmers are meeting all over the country asking for railway relief. They are meeting all over the Northwest Territories, and the constant cry is that they want a reduction in transportation rates. We are told in the address that in some way the Bill now before parliament will aid them because it will help to move the grain of the west. It may do so in a very modified form, but the real solution has not been arrived at. it will not come from tills measure and it is not likely to come from any measure introduced by lion, gentlemen opposite. We have to na-


William Findlay Maclean: everything they want. There is no legislature in this country to-day doing anything for the people, but every one of them is turning handsprings to distribute the resources of the country among the great corporations. That has got to come to an end. Perhaps the word ' Conservative ' and the word ' Liberal ' have passed out of usefulness in this country. Perhaps the day has come for a true national party- a party that believes in Canada,' in the people, in the nation, and is prepared to do for the nation instead of doing for the corporations. If we are to take on true national greatness in this country, if we are to appreciate ourselves, we must use the resources of the country and the money of the people directly for the good of the people themselves, and not for making rich men and great corporations, who grind down the people. The day has arrived for bringing all that to an end, as you will find if you go about the country. The opposition in this House has declared in favour of public ownership in connection with the Intercolonial and its extension, and the people of the Northwest recognize that there is no solution of the transportation question except on national principles and they are all nationalists in that sense. The phrase is growing, and those who believe in it are increasing in numbers ; and I believe to-day, as I have believed for some years, that the only way to solve these problems and to grant relief to the people is to move on national lines. Let us have a national tariff, let us have a national system of transportation, let us maintain the integrity of Canada on this North American continent. National propositions such as these will command the support of the Canadian people. It is on these lines that I have been appealing in my own constituency and my own province, and the people respond ; and it is the men in this House who approach public questions on these lines who will be sent back here by the people. They cannot go on the old cries, because the people will not have them. The people are at last alive to the fact that so far the governments and the parties of this country have been working for the corporations, have been throwing away the resources of the country and have been doing nothing for the people directly. This, I trust, is coming to an end. I hope we can see the beginning of a great national movement on this side of the House. If the opposition start to educate the people on these lines, and oppose them to the lines proposed by hon. gentlemen opposite, the day of real relief and improvement will soon come for the people. I hope that day is at hand; and whether the election comes this year or next year, hon. gentlemen will find that it is only on these great national lines that they will com-Mr. MACLEAN.
mand the support of the people of Canada.


Hon. Mr. HAGGART.: At this late hour, with the consent of my right hon. friend, I would move the adjournment of the debate.


Wilfrid Laurier: I have no objection, but I hope we will be able to keep later hours in the future. I would move in amendment that the following words be added to the motion :
That the order for the consideration of the motion for an address to be presented to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to Ms Speech, have precedence over all other business, except the introduction of Bills, until disposed of.


[Stage Direction]
Amendment agreed to.
Motion (Hon. Mr. Haggart) agreed to, and debate adjourned.

[Stage Direction]
Sir WILFRID LAURIER moved the adjournment of the House.
Robert Laird Borden: 
Wilfrid Laurier: 
[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to. and House adjourned 10.30 p.m.

[Stage Direction]
Tuesday, 'March 15, 1904.