Debate: Abortion the defining Moral issue of our day
Side: abortion is wrong

You said, “Tell me how many people it takes to conceive a child. Can a woman conceive on her own? Can a man produce a child on his own? No. Both sexes are required to conceive a baby, they are both responsible for the act of conception.”It takes two, the woman can’t conceive on her own and no man can produce a child on his own. But that has nothing to do with responsibility. Our government even though it recognizes the father if they are married…does not take him into consideration, should she want to abort. He simply is not an issue. The government recognizes the risks of the woman and awards here the right to decide. If they are both are responsible for the risks they take…then why are the fathers rights stripped?You said, “Answer this question please. Does a man make a conscious decision to have sex and deposit his sperm in the woman? Does he know that the woman has a possibility to get pregnant? Does he know that if she were to get pregnant the woman would have the right to abort? Yes he knows all of these things. And yet he still chooses to impregnate a woman. Therefore he is half responsible. He is not stupid he knows the risk just as much as the woman and takes the responsibility just as much as the woman.”Yes he does. Yes he does. Yes he does. BUT, he also knows he can walk away if he doesn’t want to be involved. Example…..Two kids having sex on the beach during spring break. They want to have sex obviously for pleasure. They might not even know their names or where they are from. Now who takes the big risk should they get pregnant? The guy or the gal. Who can fade into the sunset, never to be seen or heard from again? THE MAN She takes the big risk. What risk did the kid take? NONE. This Cassie Anthony trial…..she says she has no idea who the father of Caylee was. She was known for sleeping around and they did DNA samples on many of her acquaintances. Nothing turned up. They even did DNA on her father and brother. Who got pregnant, who had the baby? She did…because whether reckless sex happened or not…the risk she took didn’t pan out….she got pregnant….and where is the dad???????You said, “If the man is to be considered then he has to be considered on all grounds. Which means if his opinion was taken into consideration by law then he could force a woman to abort a fetus that she wanted to have. Seeing as you're anti-abortion wouldn't that bother you?”Well in my opinion he should be considered on all grounds. In this case I believe she should have the baby and that because she did not want it, it would go to him. You said, “Here's a list! Directly copied and pasted from what you have said to me. Is this what the word of Jesus taught you do? Name call?” MaterialistJudge mentalYou look sillyyour ignorantYou are cold.You champion killingsissyHitler, Margaret Sanger. Your views on this mirror theirs.You are a jokeYou’re so ridiculous it’s not even funnyyou respresent death to innocent human beings “You also said, “You deserved to be called a pig. I hate sexism. I'd call you a pig if your were racist or homophobic, being sexist is discriminating and holds the same grounds to me. Oh and perhaps you re-read that section because here is what I said I never denied that I called you a name. Hypocrite. All you've done since this debate began is name call, I will retaliate.I'm not the one in denial. I called you a pig once. You've demeaned and name called multiple times.”And you want to compare your use of the noun Pig…to the descriptions I have used? Do you know the difference between a noun and an adjective? You gotta come up with something better than this. LOL A pig is a filthy animal that lives in a sty………LMAO How old are you really, are you even an adult? What I stated was the truth in the nicest terms possible. And why are you bringing religion into this. All these humanists bringing religion into debates…when I have not. Is it because of my name? Again ignorance…go research what a churchmouse is. Do you think that Christians because of the love commandment should just take it…roll over and play dead? Why do you judge me by perfect standards and not yourself. You have a filthy mouth and it demeans your posts…and makes you look like you have no class. You use the F bomb like it’s a conjunction. Your views on abortion and the reasons for it mirror Hitler and Sangers and I could add a few more for that matter…..but will leave it with these two. Why don’t you do some heavy research on this…not just cut and pasting something you quickly found on google? Your position is heartless, cold, and you like I said are ignorant of the facts. Your pro-abort position makes for champion killing, not life.I said, “You said yourself that you believe for whatever reason…that abortion should be legal and an option for any woman should she need it.You said, I know and your point is?”And this is not championing abortion? LMAO And you want people to believe your pro-life? LMAOI said this, “It got there sissy because she opened her legs and allowed sperm to swim inside her. She is the one taking the risk...not the man Then you replied with this. “This is SEXIST, you think a man has no responsibility for getting a woman pregnant. Of course he does. Could a woman get pregnant without a man? No. Therefore the man HAS to assume HALF the responsibility for a child being conceived. There are two things that create a life, an egg and a sperm. Half and half. They both decide to have sex, they both know the risks, they both procreate. They are both responsible.”Why? is biology sexist? The truth is the truth it seeks no sides. We have hashed this over and over and you will never get it I’m afraid. The man does not have to assume squat…unless he is married and the courts order him to pay. Did the kid on the beach have to do anything? How many one night stands you think happen when the male just takes off…knowing or not knowing if he impregnanted the woman?You said, “An unmarried man has the same say as a married man by law. For someone who claims that I know nothing on the law of abortion you sure know bugger all yourself.'Not true, go educate yourself, not going to do it for you. Bugger? Boy have not heard that one since Kindergarten.You said, “The man also allows himself in. Stop implying the girl is always the instigator of sex. If the man didn't want to have sex and ejaculate in her then it would be rape. If he didn't want to get her pregnant he could have said no or used a condom. Just as the girl could say no or use a condom. They both take equal blame.”Only because she says YES. He goes on her invite. If they are running around the bases…have not scored a grand slam… and she says no……..it’s no, you can’t come in. If he does against her wishes it’s rape. Instigating has nothing to do with this. But whose body is changed by the sex act? Not his..Hers. She knows that what he might leave behind will affect her for at least nine months. He knows that it won’t affect him in the least…..UNLESS HE IS MARRIED. “How, explain to me how scientifically a man is not responsible for pregnancy? That is how it is I'm afraid. It takes a man and a woman to procreate. They both did it. He doesn't have a decision in pregnancy by law because....oh God do I have to repeat myself AGAIN...because if he chose for her to abort when she didn't want to he would be forcing her. It's not the man who has to carry the baby for 9 months. And if you READ what I say... most fathers do have a say because the mother and father will come to a mutual agreement.”It does take a man and a woman to procreate…which is why I also am against same sex unions, it’s not natural…but that’s another debate. They both have sex….blah blah……..and as I said unless he is married he can take off and never be seen again. SO WHO TAKES THE BIG RISK?Sure some married couples are on the same page….but we will never know how many married women go behind their spouses backs to kill, because they know their husband would not approve. There is no way of knowing that statistic.You said, “Seriously? All you've done is called everyone names and demeaned and condemned them for believing a woman has a right to abortion.Not true. I state the facts and back them up with scientific evidence. You champion killing so you don’t want to see the evidence. You want the killing option open which in my opinion is cold.You said, “I'm sorry about the fact you had one but it doesn't mean I can't look past the fact you are a complete hypocrite. How dare you tell me I contribute to abortion and patronize me like that when I've never done anything to contribute to abortion and you've had one.”Why on earth would you of all people be sorry? Mind boggling to say the least. I am not a hypocrite, I simply made a mistake lived in hell and want to share my story. My kind of story is the one PP does not want out there, because they want abortion pictures in the best way. Tell me……Have you ever in your entire life made a mistake? Did you ever think you knew the truth about something and then found that you didn’t believe that way all along? Are human beings allowed to make and learn by their errors? What?...we can’t change our minds about issues, feelings? Must be nice to be perfect. Well my position on abortion changed….and I am allowed to change my mind…..are you? When you make a huge mistake….if you have children don’t you want to protect them, teach them what might hurt them? What you’re saying here….is that I do not have the right to change my mind, I don’t have a right to warn people about what could happen especially mentally with abortion? You are the one who is judgemental and arrogant….. but then you’re perfect remember? “In a sense I'm beginning to feel like you have had some strange notions thrust upon you. And I actually feel very sorry for you. Someone has clearly put it into your head that you are bad person or a whore or something. The person who had sex with you and created your child is half responsible. It takes two people to make a child. You cannot create a life on your own.”Oh my goodness don’t. I was not a child when I had it….I should have known better…and I took the risk because I knew what would happen. But like most others in the heat of passion I guess I didn’t care and did it anyway. No one thrusted anything on me, and guess what, I do not blame anyone but myself. I am a wonderful person MOST of the time, not perfect like you but I am ok. I have raised two wonderful, happy and successful children, am a grandmother to two little girls, have been married over thirty years to the SAME MAN….and have a blessed life. Christ forgave me when I became His. And I promised Him that abortion would be my witness…to share what HE did for me in my hour of need. I am the luckiest person in the world. The baby I aborted was my husbands. A pregnancy at that time would have been hard. We were on the same page…until later…when I started suffering, he could not understand my feelings. He was supportive but of course our faiths in God are different, because when I became Christs, he didn’t. Worldviews change….and mine did drastically. We have adjusted…and he now tolerates my feelings, actions. I do not force my beliefs on him. I pray someday we will be on the same page. You said, “I have friends and family who have had abortions I would never claim to know how they felt, they talk about it and of course most of them are distraught. It's abortion. I never said it was happy fairy la la land. However they could have felt worse if they had a child. What about mothers who are forced into keeping a child and are miserable, unable to love the child? Do their emotions mean nothing?”Distraught about what? Tell me….how can you on one hand think abortion is horrible, not a fairy lala trip….then go against what your morals tell you is wrong? I don’t get it. Abortion if you have ever seen one is horrible. Have you ever seen one? Anyone who does not see one and think it’s horrendous…is cold, compassionless and EMPTY. Here watch this……..and if you don’t, think about the reasons why you won’t. Search your heart…about why you would support something so barbaric. And if you have children….put them in the place of the tiny one who is getting slaughtered. http://www.catholic.org/video/?v=13  I am not Catholic but they always have good stuff on their sites about abortion. “I'm not denying it isn't an upsetting process, stop assuming you know everything about my opinion when I haven't even spoken a word about this. Who in their right mind would tell a child they aborted their sibling? How selfish.”What is upsetting about it? And who says the kids are young? I wouldn’t tell a child about abortion for all the obvious reasons. I would at least wait until the child was the age when a lot of kids are having sex. I told my kids when they were teenagers. It’s not selfish…its real life and it happens. Kids see a lot of gruesome stuff on television. What makes abortion different you tell me? It’s the most performed surgery in the world. I said, “You are pro-choice whether you want to believe it or not…BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY CONDONE OTHERS the right to killYou said, “Not pro-choice thanks. I have a limit. That's like saying 'you're a speeder and broke the law because you drive fast even thought it's within the speed limit!' It makes no sense.”You are pro-abortion period, end of story. You want to deceive yourself into thinking you’re not but you are. You condone what that video I wanted you to watch…shows. That’s what you think should be legal. You do not stand up for all life.“What has the holocaust got to do with abortion. Since they felt pain and were living, viable humans this has no relation to my opinion.”Well there were people back then who stood by and did nothing….and looked the other way. In a way it was humanity at its worst that let all those gassed down. Everyone participated……good should have overcome evil, but didn’t. People act out of fear….and I am sure there were people who did not like what Hitler was doing BUT DIDN’T DO ANYTHING TO STOP HIM…I am talking about the people in his own country….the people who could have physically taken himout….the guards, etc. Abortion is like that….people sit by and do nothing….they think anything they do….won’t change the laws, won’t help the victim. But if every pastor on every pulpit preached the evils of abortion….if every parent with compassion in his heart would stand up for what is right and good…….abortion would once again be considered murder. If we stood up as a nation about the evils of abortion….wow….how many lives would be changed, hearts mended. But we are a secular country that has turned its face from God…and it shows by our morals and our morals influence our laws. I work with people who are atheists….so it is possible for people with no faith at all to stand up and make a difference. Its knowing what is right and wrong, what is good and evil………..standing up for it, no matter what.You said, “Again what does having a slave have to do with abortion. Of course I wouldn't and I wouldn't condone it but you're just talking about meaningless jargon now.”Again talking about standing up for what is right, doing the right thing……..even if you are swimming up stream. I know the odds are against abortion being overturned are slim to none……but I keep working and praying I am wrong. Society is sinking into a moral less abyss.You said, “I sure has hell do when someone accuses me of being a racist murderer.”You condone murder….I never called you a racist. You said, “I don't think calling someone a pig is violent, how did you come to that conclusion?”I never use violent adjectives on you….you used a noun to describe me. And swearing is classless….“I didn't say pain is the only reason people are scared of death. Stop lying. I'm not scared of what's beyond it, I don't believe in religious afterlife in a heaven and hell sense. And if it was true, which I don't believe it is, everyone I love and know has already been condemned to hell in the eyes of God, I'd rather be there supporting my friends and family than sitting in heaven with you.”Well you hold the cards to your future eternity. No one else is responsible but you. And if you’re wrong…you will have all eternity to think about it. How do you know EVERYONE has been condemned? And how do you know that you will be recognizable in hell to your family and friends? If you went to hell with them…..being with family etc…would be just a tad bit good…you would have support, be near the ones you love. And if you have support, then it is not hell. LOL What happens if you get there and you can’t find anyone? Well you would have all eternity thrashing about to find them I suppose. I know many people in my family who will not go…that is their choice. I bothers me, and I cry about it sometimes when I am praying. But I love Christ more than any other person in the world….and I have faith in Him….more than I have faith in anyone that has ever been in my life. I believe that I will not know if any family does not make it. Heaven is perfect….and it would be hell if you knew someone was not there that you loved.“You name called, you didn't retaliate you instigated. Since revenge is against God's will wouldn't you be sinning again if it had of been retaliation. I'm not judging you by different standards or religion. I'm just telling you what the Bible says, isn't that what happens at church every time you go? Are they judging you?”It’s funny all the nonreligious, materialists, humanists, atheists, agnostics always bring up religion, must be they think about it a lot. LOL I do not feel I called you names. I described and compared your worldview to people you obviously you have a problem with. I am certainly not trying to get revenge, come on. I am simply showing you why your worldview is not compassionate or all that good. I am bold, and I do state the facts in ways people feel offended. But I think down inside they are offended because what I say exposes them, gets them thinking about what they think is ok. And you think abortion is ok. And….you are judging me…I point out what you say that are untruths but I am not judging your heart….I can’t, scripture does not allow me to do that…not unless you claim to be a Christian. That is why I bring no scriptures up with you because you don’t know better. God will judge you. I can however judge actions (not hearts) of Christians as they can judge mine and many have done that…I thank them for it because many times more than I would like to admit, I needed judgement. Why do you quote a book you don’t believe in? LOLYou said, “No I just don't want to be quoted scripture since I don't believe in it as the divine truth. It's worthless quoting the Bible to me. I will only accept proven fact as a reliable source.”You don’t believe in it, yet you use it to make a point. LOL You said, “I said I don't believe abortion should be allowed past the second trimester as that is when the fetus feels pains. Unless it's a medical reason for the mother or baby.”You are a pro-abort and you champion abortion period….live with it accept the label take it as your own.You said, “Why because you post things from Wikipedia? Wow I wish I had that knowledge. Don't tell me I need to 'get educated' I think it's clear to see who has more accurate spelling and grammar. The only things I've posted are links and small quotes. Everything else is my words. You ask for evidence you get it.”LOL Boy you are really diggin deep now…. I post rarely from Wikipedia….and on this forum have posted from very reliable sources. I am not however handing my posts in to be graded….so I could care less about absolute perfect spelling and punctuation. I work….I live a full life and when I get on here….I slam it out the fastest way I can. If I had to hand in an article or paper ….it would be correct. You have provided however little evidence, more lies. Just like the lie about the earliest born preemie….I showed you your error. I work in this field and I know….“I don't really feel the 'worldwide love'. I love my family and friends. That is it. I am not religious or spiritual I do not feel compelled to love anyone other than the people I feel genuine love for. I do not love you, I do not love strangers whether they be child, adult, fetus. At best I like some random people. That does not mean I don't value other people though, I value good people, respectful people, kind people, intelligent people e.t.c”This is your worldview…and explains what I said all along…why you are pro-abortion. The lack of love for your fellow man shows your true heart. I feel sorry for you actually. You said, “What do you want me to do set fire to the abortion clinics? Did you want me to pioneer a revolution? Do you want to preach to people? Sorry I won't and I can't. If I saw an actual baby or child I'd intervene with their death. But what the hell is someone meant to do about a fetus. Tie the mother up and feed her through a drip until she gives birth? Fuck sakes, read my words PLEASE. When does the second trimester begin? 12 weeks that's when a baby feels pain, derp. I already said that about 6 times?”Who is setting abortion clinics on fire? If you compare the acts of violence against how many abortion clinics there are in the world……its nothing. Pro-lifers are basically kind and compassionate people who respect the law…just try to change it. Am I preaching? What is the difference between you putting opinion and facts out and what I am doing? Do you ever look in a mirror? You simply act like a juvenile. You have no class... You do not even know what you are saying. LOLYou said two things in your post…………you are against abortion at the end of the second trimester which would be 24 weeks….and here you say 12 weeks it feels pain. LOL Can’t let this one go……your hilarious. I mean that in the nicest comedic way possible. LOL This is what you said earlier… You said, “I said I don't believe abortion should be allowed past the second trimester as that is when the fetus feels pains. Unless it's a medical reason for the mother or baby.”So is it 12 weeks when you say the fetus can feel pain….or 24 weeks when obviously it can’t. LOLYou do not even know your own position. That is why you look silly and have to swear. Do you even know when the fetus can feel pain? LOL Naw…you don’t.