azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

Quite easily, no.Here's why:When a criminal steals something from you, you get zero benefits from it. My garmin was recently stolen from me, do you know what I got from that? The inability to navigate. This is not a benefit.However, when the government collects your tax money, you generally get a benefit in some form or another from it. For instance, when you are old and can no longer take good care of yourself, you might be thankful that medicare exists. When that robber decides that it's time to kill you and your family, you might suddenly think that the tax money that pays for the police sure is nice to pay. When you drive to work in the morning, you might want to consider that the roads you drove upon were paid for by taxes, and your car is really only tolerably safe because of strict government regulations on the car industry... so, keep that in mind, too. Taxes do a lot for you, and a lot more for big corporations. That network of interstates serves Wal-Mart to the tune of several more billion a year than it does me, so, don't even get on your flat tax bullcrap.Now, compound all of that with the fact that the entire system of currency that you even use, and those dollars you "earn" and love so much are in fact not even "yours" to begin with. You are borrowing them for use from the government, that's why they put their own faces and monuments on them. Those dollars aren't yours, they are only representative of what you have done as perceived by others... and when the government wants you to assign some of your work-reward back to it, it has every right to demand it, since it establishes the system by which you profit.Example:Everyone who comes to my swimming pool and enjoys the waters and the rights to operate hotdog stands and be guarded by lifeguards must pay $3 to get in and continue enjoying said benefits. This allows me to pay my lifeguard so he can eat a hotdog every once in a while and keep my pool clean and safe. If you operate a hotdog stand on my pool grounds, I'm asking for another dollar because I have to clean up after you and let your suppliers in, as well as make a "no eating hotdogs in the pool water" rule that I have to enforce. Since you make a lot more than the average pool denizen, you should be very happy to hand over that extra dollar.And if you don't like it? GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY POOL (AKA, go somewhere else to do your business and work).
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

Well, that's an awful lot of writing for post so lacking in substance =/From what I gather, your argument is1. Taxation is not theft because we get stuff back from them2. The government prints money and forces us to use their currency; therefore we owe them labor...OK, so with 1 the problem is a lack of understanding on your part. You can steal a purse from one person and get whatever is in the purse, but if you're going to do the same to millions of people you're going to have to convince them that it's in there best interest to allow you to rob them. Besides that, the government also now has the benefit of a coercive monopoly over all the most vital services. The thing is, you don't need a group of small people with a vast geographical over claim to have a monopoly on police, roads, medical attention, food distribution etc. in order to have these things because if there is a large enough demand for these services that a government feels the need to enforce a violent monopoly then there is clearly a high enough demand that these things would be provided with or without such monopolies.The reason is a simple as supply and demand, it's basic economics 101. Now, on to number 2...Just because the government has also forced a monopoly currency does not mean that you need; let alone OWE the government for this. You can have free-market currency and indeed there has been and still is.What your saying here makes about as much sense as though a crazy general store owner is threatening to kill you unless you only buy what he sells and then telling your kids they should be grateful for the things the crazy general store owner does.Sure, the store owner sells you goods and services, but then so could anyone else and in fact it's better to have other store owners because at least then you would have competition and an incentive lower prices down from the monopoly rate you would get by only having one insane store owner.Your example proves nothing. you're talking about the free-market exchange between you (the pool owner) and everyone of whom both wants to swim and has the money to do so. This is unrelated to how government operates as you are not the only pool owner and you don't demand mandatory payment of every person living in the same country as you wheather they actually want to use your pool or not.It's the same thing with letting other people sell hotdogs around your pool. They want to sell hotdogs, you want compensation so long as they do it on your property, but there's no coersion, you're nto forcing people to sell on your property just so you can force them to pay you. If they don't want to pay they can just open there stand a few feet off of your property but you can't do that with governments becuase they claim everything from coast to coast.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

Yes, by definition, as per this debate, Taxation is not theft, it is Taxation. When you are stolen from, you do NOT get anything in return. There's a gulf of difference that you don't seem to be able to grasp for some reason.As per your purse example, if they are ALLOWING me to take their purse, and I am providing a service in exchange for continued allowance, then I am NOT stealing their purse anymore.As per your "crazy general store" owner example, all I can say is, "What?" ... do you actually read what you type on here?If you don't want to pay taxes, DON'T EARN MONEY and DON'T OWN PROPERTY in this country. That's how you get out of it. Move to another country that doesn't charge taxes for anything (protip: there's not one). Or you could be homeless, or earn so little income that you can afford to rent a crappy house and pay for food and that's it, and you won't be paying taxes under current US law. Actually, other people's taxes will likely pay for quite a large portion of your food.The US Government has never forced me to do anything. "Paying Taxes" is a CONDITIONAL CONTRACT between law abiding citizens and the government. When you pick up that piece of currency and put it into your pocket, you are acknowledging the powers that be... otherwise, LEAVE THE DOLLAR ALONE. Again, tax avoidance:1) Earn so little you pay no tax.2) Move to another country.3) Join a religious order and live life at a monastery or commune.4) Become homeless.You don't like those things? Everything else that exists here was built by a MAJORITY that agree that pitching in your share of the tax burden is expected, and reasonable. You don't think it's expected and reasonable? Don't use the roads we pay for, don't use the schools we pay for, etc.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

long post, but yes you are right. people seem to think if the government cant do it, no one can. well maybe one day when government topples they will realize they like the services they had beforehand and will find alternate ways to fulfill them like we are saying now.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

This debate seems to be more about whether anarchy is a viable system, than it is about taxation being theft.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

mainly because the two go hand in hand. government lives off taking your property and bullshitting about how its for the greater good or some crap like that. once people wake up and decide they like their hard earned property, government will crap its pants.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

Unless you can show me a time or place where sustainable anarchy has ever been better than our current system, you're forced to admit that they are right. Taxes are the sacrifice that we have to make in order to have the comfortable lifestyles that we have.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

the Americas before the revolution where almost completely left alone by the British. the people elected leaders but heres the major part. they had no taxes and when they did. only people who wanted to pay taxes did. the others did not and they were left alone. if people needed some thing done such as a road built. they hired some one for the job. see you don't need taxation to do something. if the government stopped with taxation and stopped giving out free meals and monopolizing public services. then we would choose and hire our own people to do it. just because a service stops does not mean people wont do any thing about it.if garbage piled up in your street you would not let it sit there, you would hire some one to pick it up. things can be done whit out government, its surprising i know, but possible.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

the Americas before the revolution where almost completely left alone by the British. the people elected leaders but heres the major part. they had no taxes and when they did. only people who wanted to pay taxes did. the others did not and they were left alone. if people needed some thing done such as a road built. they hired some one for the job. see you don't need taxation to do something. Native Americans got along fine without taxes, so did the Aboriginals. It doesn't change the fact that such a social order has narrow contexts in which it can work, and in the context of a post-industrialised, modern society, you cannot drop government funding for infrastructure and just expect the private sector to take on the burden and provide reliable quality of service.I shouldn't have to explain this to you, it's extremely obvious to anybody.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

Native Americans got along fine without taxes, so did the Aboriginals. It doesn't change the fact that such a social order has narrow contexts in which it can work, and in the context of a post-industrialized, modern society, you cannot drop government funding for infrastructure and just expect the private sector to take on the burden and provide reliable quality of service.that is not what I'm suggesting. as i said earlier it would be a slow process of becoming independent off government. does a child just move out of the house when he is born and get a job? no, that is unthinkable. the same is with government dependency.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

that is not what I'm suggesting. as i said earlier it would be a slow process of becoming independent off government. does a child just move out of the house when he is born and get a job? no, that is unthinkable. the same is with government dependency.On the slider of government dependence you have Saudi Arabia and North Korea as the far right and Somalia and Columbia as the far left. You cannot expect a society to function well with minimal government as is made abundantly clear with Somalia and Columbia. Further, light government leads us into monopolistic, buyer-beware societies like the North and South in the 19th century, and USA in the early twentieth.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

most of this is irreverent. i know the political spectrum and its different government types. minimal government as is made abundantly clear with Somalia and Columbiaumm that is not minimal government. that is warlord militant chaos, where the leader has complete control which is totalitarianism which is a lot of government. libertarianism is non or little government interaction and organized anarchy/capitalism.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

umm that is not minimal government. that is warlord militant chaos, where the leader has complete control which is totalitarianism which is a lot of government. libertarianism is non or little government interaction and organized anarchy/capitalism.Somalia has effectively no government, it is unstable and barely holding on with foreign support.Without an effective government warlords were able to take over regions. Ergo anarchy leads to "might makes right" and people taking power without oversight.In other words, government is necessary to avoid power vacuums because people cannot rule themselves.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

we see government as two different things, while i see it as a organized central institution as our is. i also see it as any time some one is ruled by an other. for that is what government means, to govern over some one. so while we say Somalia and stuff have a weak government that is because they do not have a centralized organized institution like us. but they have militant factions still leading forces around. and i see this as just an other type of government. so whether it is considered government is debatable, but the fact that people are oppressed and ordered and abused by a greater power is the problem.because while i still want weaker government control, i still believe are government is most definitely a better one then others.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

so while we say Somalia and stuff have a weak government that is because they do not have a centralized organized institution like us. but they have militant factions still leading forces around. and i see this as just an other type of government. so whether it is considered government is debatable, but the fact that people are oppressed and ordered and abused by a greater power is the problem.Whether or not you change terminology, the fact remains that weak governments can create power vacuums and are susceptible to militants who use force over ethics.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

yes but the vacuum being there because of one lack of power over the other. a libertarian society would be careful to have a slow safe transition into smaller government.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

yes but the vacuum being there because of one lack of power over the other. a libertarian society would be careful to have a slow safe transition into smaller government.It doesn't matter how slow the transition is. It just won't be a vacuum, but instead the wealthy having power over people while a small and impotent government does nothing to stop it.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

Taxes are what support the government and keep order. It's because of taxes, you can go to the Police if you're in trouble. In the UK (which is where I live), it's because of taxes, we get free healthcare, basically free TV and benefits.You don't want to pay taxes? Then get out of the country.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

Wow, your post is like reading out of a high-school civics textbook. You don't NEED government to have police. Police exist in the first place because there is a demand for them. Would demand for police suddenly stop if taxation stopped tomorrow? No, you DON'T have free health care. you pay for it with your taxes.Leaving the country doesn't solve anything since all the other countries use taxation as well.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

And what exactly funds the Police? Taxes which are controlled by the government. We'll always need Police, but without taxes, they won't be able to run. If theoretically, you got rid of taxes, then the Police would have to turn into a business to be able to survive, and start charging for what they do, which I for one, don't want. Plus if it was to make it's own money, then criminal could easily make "donations" and suddenly become innocent. Well, technically it's not free but you're not really paying for it. You pay taxes and tax go towards health care. However, in some countries you have to pay for your own health insurance or be charge a LOT of money when you need help. True but at least you wouldn't be whining about how this government works.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

"And what exactly funds the Police? Taxes which are controlled by the government."...Uh, I never said they weren't. What's your point? "We'll always need Police, but without taxes, they won't be able to run."That's like saying "We'll always need shoes, but unless the government forces a coercive monopoly and mandatory payments, nobody will be able to have shoes.".Where are people getting this idea that only the government can supply these services? XD"If theoretically, you got rid of taxes, then the Police would have to turn into a business to be able to survive, and start charging for what they do, which I for one, don't want."Wow, that is a profoundly ignorant statement. You're honestly the first statist I've debated whom honestly thinks monopolies are better than competitive businesses.Look, when you have a monopoly you are able to charge for your service at monopoly rates. Which means you can charge more for your service while providing as little as necessary to maximize profits. The only limit to how high you can charge and how crappy your service can be is when people opt out; as in, they would rather not have the service than get it from you. But when you take things one step further and make payment for the service mandatory you extend the limit to whenever the population starts getting violent. Without a monopoly, not only are all of these problems avoided but you get the added benefit of companies working to out-do each other in terms of service quality and affordability. Now, exactly which part of better police at cheaper prices sounds worse to you?"Plus if it was to make it's own money, then criminal could easily make "donations" and suddenly become innocent. ""it"? Criminals are people too =p A person can always bribe an officer. That's just a fact of life and having a government monopoly on police doesn't change this fact. The only difference is with a monopolized police system if they don't punish the officer for taking the bribe there isn't much you can do about it because you can't chose to pay a different service and you can't even chose to just NOT pay the monopolized service. But, if there were many police agencies then if one was corrupt people could chose to simply NOT hire them and watch as their company goes bankrupt. "Well, technically it's not free but you're not really paying for it. "No. There's no "technically". You ARE paying for it and it's NOT free."You pay taxes and tax go towards health care. However, in some countries you have to pay for your own health insurance or be charge a LOT of money when you need help."You're still paying a ton whether your health care comes from tax or pocket. This is a matter of comparing one coercive monopoly with a slightly different coercive monopoly, NOT comparing a coercive monopoly to a free market hospital. "True but at least you wouldn't be whining about how this government works."Not true. I currently live in Canada, but I still talk about the U.S. model, the U.K. model, the Russian model, etc.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

Theft is the act of taking property from someone against their permission, with the additional stipend that it must also be illegal to do so.For example, towing the vehicle of a man who lost his license would be against his permission possibly, but is not theft because it is authorised by the state to do so.Taxes might be against the consent or permission of the people, but it is mandated (authorised) by the state and so cannot be theft.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

if murder was allowed by the government would it not be murder? regardless of who allows it or enforces it it is still theft. don't think its not because government says its not.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

if murder was allowed by the government would it not be murder? Correct. Illegal killing is murder. Killing with authorisation is assassination, self-defense, war, etc.regardless of who allows it or enforces it it is still theft. don't think its not because government says its not.Go back to the definition. You may as well call war murder, for example.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

first of all are government does not allow assassination and that is debatable of being murder or not. as for killing in war, that is not murder that is fighting and defending your self. murder is the killing of a non combatant. people who go to war should know the price that can come from it.as for taxation. it is still theft, as i said and you choose to ignore, i receive punishment for not paying taxes that i must against my own will meaning regardless of what the government says it is still theft. i have nothing wrong with giving the government money but on my own will.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

first of all are government does not allow assassination and that is debatable of being murder or notYou might want to do some more research into our nation's history of covert ops and destabilising countries we don't like.as for killing in war, that is not murder that is fighting and defending your self. murder is the killing of a non combatant. people who go to war should know the price that can come from it.In war, killing is sanctioned under certain circumstances and is therefore not murder.as for taxation. it is still theft, as i said and you choose to ignore, i receive punishment for not paying taxes that i must against my own will meaning regardless of what the government says it is still theft. i have nothing wrong with giving the government money but on my own will.Is taxation legal? That's all that matters here. Your will on the matter is irrelevant, just like whether a person wants to die has no bearing on whether war is murder.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

this is a good counter argument i will admit. it has made me think about it. i am not entirely the narrow minded god fearing man you think i am from are other debates.while i feel taxes are an abusive unfair way of taking my money regardless if it is for good or not. we have hit into a good example of the same being for dying in battle.but again i say people go into war expecting death to be a effect of it. and war is an extreme example argument to mine. usually before war we try negotiating and finding peace terms. but with taxes the only negotiating is how much we can give them.i feel then that taxes should only be used for in extreme circumstances like when a draft is used for war. because honestly do we need this amount of are money taken for who knows what the government does? we don't need to be global police and if the people of America feel its time we stop then we have that right. to much we give the president the power to choose for us.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: No

this is a good counter argument i will admit. it has made me think about it. i am not entirely the narrow minded god fearing man you think i am from are other debates.I never said I thought that about you. I actually just think you're young and lack my experience.i feel then that taxes should only be used for in extreme circumstances like when a draft is used for war. because honestly do we need this amount of are money taken for who knows what the government does? we don't need to be global police and if the people of America feel its time we stop then we have that right. to much we give the president the power to choose for us.Taxes are used to provide infrastructure maintenance like roads, power lines, water, and so on. The money also covers medicare and medicaid for the poor and elderly, as well as public schooling, subsidies for agriculture and certain industries, as well as government positions and city jobs like police, firefighters, and senators, politicians, etc. Then there's military research, and the war machine, espionage, etc.Minimal taxes starves all of this. We pay for this so that we have the protection of civilisation.
Debate: Taxation is Legalized Theft
Side: yes

lol but almost all of those things you mentioned can just be privatized. then there wont be starvation for them. like i said i have argued already about it. its just whether you think people can handle privatized services or if government should do it. thats the main line. mainstreamed or private.