azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

I am not advocating that "the baby" be the punishment. I'm advocating that "the delivery" be "the punishment" (as you put it). I see "the delivery" as a chance for a life that most people see as forfeit. Think about this, ask any teenage girl, "What would you do if you get pregnant?" More often than not, the response will be, "I'll get an abortion." In other words, "an abortion" is the default answer. Other options are not even considered. I don't think abortion should be the default answer. I believe other options should be considered. One way to force the consideration of alternatives is to give fathers a chance to claim the baby (although, if you ask a teenage boy, "What if you get a girl pregnant?" More often than not he'll give you the same default answer, "abort".). By allowing the father to claim the baby, the fetus is given one more chance at life. With the current system his only chance lies on the mother. With the system being proposed, he has two chances at life, his mother and his father. Two chances for one parent to chose life. If they both chose to abort, his chance at life is forfeit. But you have admit that two chances at life is better than one. Even if the chances of one parent choosing life is small, it is still better than one chance.Also note that if the father claims the child he has sole responsibility for the child. After delivery, the mother walks away. So your spiteful retribution argument is a moot point.Also NOTE that I'm not advocating making abortions illegal. So your abortion history is a moot point.It is not that the father's decision trumps the mother's decision (argh!) It is that the fetus' chance at life trumps which ever parent wants it destroyed. In other words, the only way to get an abortion is if both parents want it destroyed. Only the rejection of both parents can trump a fetus' chance at life. Therefore a man cannot force a woman to get an abortion if she wants the child. So your sinister argument is a moot point.As I stated before, the goal is to force the consideration of alternate options. Most unwanted pregnancies happen to teenage parents. I would be highly surprised (given the selfish nature of teenagers) that either one of the parents would chose to keep the child. More likely than not, they will both opt for an abortion. So your foster care argument is a moot point.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Think about this, ask any teenage girl, "What would you do if you get pregnant?" More often than not, the response will be, "I'll get an abortion."A source on this?"So your spiteful retribution argument is a moot point."No, it isn't, because you still advocate punishment for a woman having sex. "So your abortion history is a moot point."No, it isn't, because if a woman were to be refused an abortion based on the father's decision, plenty of them would still seek illegal abortions elsewhere. No one has any right to 'claim' something that is inside someone else's body, and dependent upon that other person for survival. And because the fetus is not yet a legally recognized person, but the mother is, when their rights conflict, hers come first. And like Banshee said, when the fetus can be implanted in the father's body, when he can carry it himself, then he has a right to it. Until then, he cannot demand someone else carry a fetus for him against their will. "Most unwanted pregnancies happen to teenage parents."Again, a source on this? According to this page on abortionstatistics.com (http://www.abortionfacts.com/Statistics/age.asp ), most abortions occur in the 20-24 age bracket, then the 25-29 age bracket, and only then in the 15-19 age bracket. People have no right to 'force this consideration' on women who want abortions. They can share information with them, appeal to their logic or emotions, and generally do their best to convince them to keep the baby, yes, but force them? No. If a woman wants an abortion, it should be available to her. Anything else is far more barbaric than the alternative.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

if a woman were to be refused an abortion based on the father's decision, plenty of them would still seek illegal abortions elsewhere.O M G ! ! !What kind of selfish bitch would seek an illegal abortion to spite the father of her child once he has stated that he'll take full responsibility for the child? How selfish does one have to be chose to destroy the life of someone who who has a father waiting for him/her to be born with loving arms?But wait, let me finish your argument for you, a fetus is a parasite. A fetus is not human. How freaking convenient for you to define a fetus that way. Just like it was convenient for Nazis to define Jews as rats. It makes it that much easier to destroy. nice!
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

the fetus is not yet a legally recognized person, but the mother is, when their rights conflict, hers come first.I beg to differ on the following grounds:http://www.createdebate.com/debate/invite/How_many_people_are_involved_in_a_pregnancy_situation
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

They can share information with them, appeal to their logic or emotions, and generally do their best to convince them to keep the babyI don't want to convince anyone to keep the baby. I want to make sure that a pregnancy goes to term if the father chooses to take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the baby. Once the bay is born the mother walks away. In other words, in the OFF CHANCE that the father wants the baby, the mother has to endure 9 months. The father has to endure 18 years. 9 months of your life is a small price to pay for the life of a life. If you can't do the time, then get your partner to agree that he will opt for an abortion if you get pregnant and make sure he wears a condom and make sure you get on the pill and take it religiously.Wait..., what?.... what is that I hear? Getting your partner to agree and committing to birth control is too much to ask? People can't expect women to be responsible before having sex. It's easier to just left any and all responsibility from her shoulders and let her abort if she's screws up (it's not her fault)? Screw the little bastard? Is that your position? Are you too selfish to even consider any alternative that gives a fetus a slight chance at life? A slight chance because the probability of a man in his 20's who would chose to take full responsibility for a baby is slight. A man in his 20's is either in college or starting his career. How can he take care of a child? More than likely he can't. So giving him the right to opt to keep the child is moot because chances are that he wont take that option. But I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in giving the fetus a fighting chance no matter how slight. it's only fair.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: No

The father has to endure 18 years. 9 months of your life is a small price to pay for the life of a life.Do you know how many lives you would be able to save if you devoted 9 months of your life to trying to do so? Or even just by devoting 18 years of child support funds to people in need.http://www.bread.org/learn/hunger-basics/hunger-facts-international.html Go find someone that is hungry and then feed them. Or find someone sick and get them care.After you have exhausted all of your resources doing so then you can feel justified in expecting someone else to devote their time and/or money into another live which you have no part in.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Like Inspector Jacques Clouseau always says in his Pink Panther movies with a heavy French accent..., "Ooh, good one!" ;)
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Carrying a baby to term is NOT a punishment. If it were a punishment, women wouldn't give birth. Jeez!
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: No

"What kind of selfish bitch would seek an illegal abortion to spite the father of her child once he has stated that he'll take full responsibility for the child?"I don't know, possibly someone who realizes her bodily autonomy is being bulldozed, and that the rights of a non-person have overridden her own? Someone who simply does not want to be pregnant right then and might be absolutely terrified by the thought of being forced through it?"I beg to differ on the following grounds:"You can beg to differ all you want and use your own debate as some sort of proof, but the government does not currently recognize a fetus as a person with rights and citizenship. "I don't want to convince anyone to keep the baby. I want to make sure that a pregnancy goes to term if the father chooses to take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the baby."Feel free to carry as many pregnancies to full term as you can handle. Do not assume any degree of control over someone elses' body. It is not up to you (or anyone else) what medical procedures they do or do not undergo, it is not up to you (or anyone else) what they put in their bodies or what they remove, or why they chose to do so. "Getting your partner to agree and committing to birth control is too much to ask?"You do realize that not all people who have unwanted pregnancies are having wild, unprotected sex at every corner, right? No method of birth control is 100% safe; not condoms, not vasectomies or hysterectomies, not hormone pills or IUDs. In fact, 57% of women who got abortions reported using a contraceptive at the time. "Are you too selfish to even consider any alternative that gives a fetus a slight chance at life?"Personally, this is not where I stand. If I got pregnant, the father was I man I could love and trust, and he was truly willing share the burden of raising a child, I would not get an abortion. But I realize that my choice is not everyone's choice. It is not up to me or anyone but the woman in question to decide when an abortion is okay and when it isn't. Whatever is going on inside a person's body is 100% their prerogative and no part of the decision process belongs to anyone else unless they want it to. "Carrying a baby to term is NOT a punishment. If it were a punishment, women wouldn't give birth."Let me finish that sentence for you: "Carrying a baby to term is not a punishment unless you are being made to do it against your will." There you go.So giving him the right to opt to keep the child is moot...Did you just say your own position is moot? In any case, no it isn't, because if this resulted in even one woman being forced through childbirth against her will, that would be disgusting."Just like it was convenient for Nazis to define Jews as rats. It makes it that much easier to destroy. nice!"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Godwin's law does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate,In this case I think the comparison to Nazis is appropriate because you have compared a human fetus to a parasite, a non-person that has no rights whatsoever and can thus be disposed off as seen fit by the individual carrying it without having to answer to anyone and without any consequences, culpability, repercussions, accountability, nothing. I mean, it fits to a 'T.' But I'm sure you'll disagree ;)
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

And you have compared a nonthinking, nonfeeling, nonsentient lump of tissue, in most cases of abortion no bigger than a golf ball, to a completely self-aware human being that suffered persecution, starvation, brutality, and execution. I added that not because I had any strong feeling on the appropriateness of your reference, I found it irrelevant and didn' give it much thought. More than anything, I thought it was funny to see Godwin's Law in action.And is that really the only point to which you can offer a rebuttal?
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Actually I don't care either because regardless of what I say on CD, it will never have any bearing on legislation. And the same goes for anything you say.On the other hand, if there was an organized group of people that thought like me and decided to follow the gay community's fight for gay marriage as an example on how to change legislation, then that would really be interesting ;)But I understand your point. I mean, if anyone gave me absolute power over anything (including life and death), I would never relinquish that power either (regardless of how many people's rights it tramples on) ;)
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: No

Actually I don't care either because regardless of what I say on CD, it will never have any bearing on legislation. And the same goes for anything you say.Since when is CD only for discussions that have bearing on legislative action? To me, that seems like a cop-out because you don't really have any valid rebuttals for lots of these points. On the other hand, if there was an organized group of people that thought like me and decided to follow the gay community's fight for gay marriage as an example on how to change legislation, then that would really be interesting ;)Have fun with that. Since Roe vs. Wade, ongoing polls show that America is becoming more and more firmly pro-choice. Many Americans still believe abortion should be limited, but not only is that changing too, most of them are not fanatically eager to force these limitations on women. But I understand your point. I mean, if anyone gave me absolute power over anything (including life and death), I would never relinquish that power either (regardless of how many people's rights it tramples on) ;)Is there a point to saying the exact same thing twice in different posts, and not addressing my response to the first time you said it?
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

You know, that I think about it, since father's rights are being denied and there's no way to get them back in the near future, and since I can only change my behavior, if I weren't in a committed relationship I would change my behavior to giving women facials rather than giving them control over my sperm ;)
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: No

Is that supposed to offend me? As long as you're not doing it without your partner's permission, that is a completely reasonable and justified way to ensure you never find yourself in this situation. Enjoy yourself.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

You know what I find disgusting? A woman who would willfully deny a father a chance to be with his child by killing it. That is more disgusting than anything you may consider vile.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Thank goodness the US government disagrees with you and places a person's right to their own body at a higher value than the fate of a fetus, which is not a person yet.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Yeah, that can be changed though. People who think like me will just have to follow the example being set by the gay community in their fight to get legislation changed. ;)
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

What about the value of the father whos life will change dramatically? Why should he not have a say?
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: No

Because he's not the one who is functioning as a life support system for the fetus while it incubates.He does have a say, by the way, no one is trying to claim he should just keep his mouth shut. But he just cannot cast the deciding vote.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Nobody is saying he should cast the deciding vote either. However, by current standards, he has no say whatsoever. I have aske everyone the same question. I will ask one more time. If the father says he does not want the child and she still insists she does, why should he hold financial burden after the child is born. On the flip side, if he wants the child and is willing to hold all burden before and after the child is born, why should she be able to abort? Even if, he agrees to find a surrogate mother.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

I think this is human(refer to link), if anyone isn't a human, it's you.I mean I completely understand that abortion is a last resort at sometimes,but seriously, just because you don't want a baby? That is completely RIDICULOUS.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

On the topic of illegal abortions....Morals: principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct.Way back when it was wrong for a woman to have a child out of wedlock, and when it was wrong to kill a fetus, abortion were considered immoral. And so, only immoral women had abortions and only immoral women died due to said abortions (by definition). Thus, abortions were illegal.Why was it wrong for women to have children out of wedlock? Because the brief pleasure achieved through the sexual act is not worth the problems created by a one parent household.Why was it wrong to kill a fetus? Because life was held to a higher standard.Now that it is not wrong for a woman to have a child out of wedlock and abortions are no longer immoral and thus legal, innocent fetuses die.Why are abortions no longer immoral and legal? Because it was reasoned that we can enjoy the brief pleasure achieved through the sexual act if we allow abortions and force fathers to pay child support on the off chance that the woman does not chose to abort.But doesn't this shift the woman's half of the responsibility for getting pregnant onto the father's shoulders? Absolutely.But is killing a fetus worth the brief pleasure achieved through the sexual act? It is if you reason that the fetus is nothing more than a collection of cells that are not alive and claim that the fetus is a parasite. I don't like to see women die, moral or immoral but if I had a choice as to who should live, I'd pick the innocent fetus. Why? Because a woman can chose when to get pregnant simply by waiting until she's married to a man who wants to start a family with her. Abortions not only allow a woman to enjoy sex before she is married but also to enjoy this sex with a man that doesn't want to start a family with her. The sacrifice for all of this sex is the life of a fetus. In other words, a fetus has no control over the sex but he is made responsible for the consequence of that sex. If the couple had acted responsibly and waited until they were married and committed to each other, then there would be no need for an abortion, no need to make the fetus responsible for something it has no control over. The couple, however, do have control over the sex and are capable of making a choice to have sex and therefore it is ultimately the couple who should be held accountable and made responsible for the consequences of that sex, namely the fetus.It is thus wrong for a woman to make a conscious choice to have sex out of wedlock and then, when things go wrong, to deny the father any rights to the baby and (on top of that) to kill the fetus.If, on the other hand, you make a woman accountable for her role in the pregnancy, you will then see women acting more responsibly.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Dang, i love you joe! your so amazing, i am super glad i am allies with you!I personally believe that the father should have just as much say in the matter as the mom. It takes two people to make a baby, it should take two to decide on an abortion. I agree that if the father wants to take full responsibility for the baby then it should be perfectly fine, what's the harm in that? Seriously guys, just because the embryo is not "born" yet does not mean that it is not a human being. If you ever see pictures from abortions, you will know what i mean. It is a horrible and very disturbing site.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

I do not think either person's decision should trump the others. For example, if a mother wants to bring that child into the world, even though the father says he is not ready, that is her choice. However, she should not have any legal grounds for child support. If she can just terminate because she doesn't think she is ready, why is it a decision forced upon men?On the flip side, I have suggested a surrogate mother which the father will hold full financial burden to, no legal liability for the mother after the child is born and the father agree to keep the child. Why should this not be an option? The procedure is no more harmful than an abortion to the mother.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

The fathers decision should not trump the mothers. As the mothers should not trump the fathers. If the mother does not want an abortion and the father does, she should have to free him of any responsibility of that child after it is born. He must be willing to do the same in the opposite as well.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: No

I agree, the argument above also implies that it is the fault of the "promiscuous" woman for the pregnancy though the equally "promiscuous" man remains seems to be free from fault or punishment. Even as a man I can say that's simply wrong.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: No

Child abuse is one of the leading causes of promiscuity,therefore a person should seriously think twice about calling anyone a slut.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Science has come a long way. It is possible to have a surrogate mother. What if he suggested the embryo be planted in someone else's body?
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: No

If he suggests that and she agrees, great. But she still has the right to choose an abortion instead, no matter what he wants.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

To imagine a woman being denied an abortion just because her boyfriend/husband or whoever wanted to keep the baby strikes me as incredibly disturbing. It is essentially disregarding her wishes in favor of his and forcing her to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want, and that sounds like a nightmare to me.So let me see if I understand you correctly. If a boyfriend/husband wants full custody of the baby he is "disregarding her wishes in favor of his" and this is "disturbing."But (and this is a big but so please bear with me), if he wants full custody of the baby and she opts to have an abortion regardless of the FACT that the fetus is half HIS, she is NOT disregarding his wishes in favor of hers and this is NOT disturbing.And... having an abortion is NOT a nightmare for the father who wants to keep and raise his child but it is a nightmare to carry a child for 9 months.NOW... I know that she may NOT want the baby but doesn't she have any responsibility for her actions? After all, she did consent to sex. And, before you twist this, a rapist would have no say in the matter.It sounds to me that what you want is a one way street, specifically the street that benefits only you and no one else (not the father, not the fetus). You want to have the final say in the matter and no one can hold you accountable for your actions.Does that about sums up your point?
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

Agreed. But, he should be able to opt out and have no responsibility to the fetus after birth if he doesn't want it. She has all the authority so he should have no responsibility.
Debate: Should a father have a right to refuse an abortion?
Side: yes

So why should a father who wanted her to have the abortion, have to pay child support? If, on the flip side, he wanted the child and had no say? Its a double standard. Lose lose for the man.