azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

I'll debate more civilly with you - partly I was debating you and Cartman at the same time and I no longer feel the need for civility towards his arguments, and partly I was just shocked at how wrong someone could be so wrong on something as important as Iraq.Much of the issue was belied by your attempt argue the semantics of the heading (War in Iraq) rather than the well understood intent. You can argue that the Washington Monthly was imprecise to use the word War, but by that same measure there was no Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, etc.There were distinct operations in Iraq (Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation New Dawn) which Obama brought to a close. Indications are that Romney would not have, thus the contention that it is an Obama accomplishment. Why people are trying so hard to score points based on semantics rather than really discuss the substance eludes me.Before going into Iraq, there were no Taliban in Iraq, and Sunni and Shia were not listed anywhere as our enemies. Additionally, "[w]e remained in Iraq for as long as we did because we were watching for al Qaeda. They appeared to have moved out of Iraq, so we moved on as well..." is not even in the ballpark of why we stayed there or why we left - thus my frustration. 1000's of people actually died and so few know or even care why.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

I'll debate more civilly with you - partly I was debating you and Cartman at the same time and I no longer feel the need for civility towards his arguments, and partly I was just shocked at how wrong someone could be so wrong on something as important as Iraq.I was just throwin' some stuff out there. It won't all be gold. I also am not fond of debating with links, because that kind of takes away the point of arguing. "I think such and such""No, you're wrong! Here's a link to prove it!""Okay... debate over"My Iraq comment was more of an assumption, as you can tell. It just seemed a likely possibility since troops left Iraq and more were sent to Afghanistan. You don't need to comment on that, by the way. I don't need to read another repeat.Much of the issue was belied by your attempt argue the semantics of the heading (War in Iraq) rather than the well understood intent. You can argue that the Washington Monthly was imprecise to use the word War, but by that same measure there was no Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, etc.Oh... maybe you need some fresh air or something.There were distinct operations in Iraq (Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation New Dawn) which Obama brought to a close. Indications are that Romney would not have, thus the contention that it is an Obama accomplishment. Why people are trying so hard to score points based on semantics rather than really discuss the substance eludes me.I don't understand the Obama cheerleading. He brought Iraq to a close, good... but he sent more to Afghanistan, which he also said he would bring to a close. I don't understand having pride in a politician who sucks just as bad as all the rest. Can't we just all agree that career-politicians running the country is doing us more harm than good?Before going into Iraq, there were no Taliban in Iraq, and Sunni and Shia were not listed anywhere as our enemies.Sunni and Shia extremists... which is what I meant in the first place, but they mainly fall under al Qaeda and Taliban.Additionally, "[w]e remained in Iraq for as long as we did because we were watching for al Qaeda. They appeared to have moved out of Iraq, so we moved on as well..." is not even in the ballpark of why we stayed there or why we left - thus my frustration. 1000's of people actually died and so few know or even care why.Yeah... you said that already. Maybe you should take a break from the internet if shit like that frustrates you.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

I'll give you this - it takes an impressive amount of chutzpah to not know much about why the government went into, stayed, or left Iraq and then feel comfortable going onto a debate site to make matter-of-fact assertions about it only to admit you were just 'throwin' some stuff out there'."Okay... debate over"Wouldn't it be just as easy to say:No, that's wrong because.... I don't need to read another repeat.Right. You need to read a book.He brought Iraq to a close, good...See how much time you could have saved both of ushe sent more to Afghanistan, which he also said he would bring to a close.Obama has consistently said that he would refocus our attention on Afghanistan and increase troops there in order for us to bring it to a close in 2014, and he is still on track to do so. Or, did you not know any of that either?I don't understand the Obama cheerleading.Indeed. Why would people post Obama's accomplishments at a site dedicated to debating ideas under a debate related to Obama? confounding....Can't we just all agree that career-politicians running the country is doing us more harm than good?The alternative being?just as bad as all the restonly in some people's imaginations. He is smart, moral, and pragmatic; I wouldn't rate him as the best president ever, but certainly closer to the best than the worst. Mostly I think he just needs to use the bully pulpit better to sell his ideas and cajole Congress into cooperating/compromising. Much of his policy agenda has been blocked by partisanship, yet people still blame him for not changing the mess the last guy left fast enough.Maybe you should take a breakMaybe you should take some time to know something before debating it.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

I'll give you this - it takes an impressive amount of chutzpah to not know much about why the government went into, stayed, or left Iraq and then feel comfortable going onto a debate site to make matter-of-fact assertions about it only to admit you were just 'throwin' some stuff out there'.I'll take that as a compliment.Wouldn't it be just as easy to say:No, that's wrong because....Well, it hasn't made this debate any more fun lol.Right. You need to read a book.On what? Iraq? I clearly don't want to read that.Obama has consistently said that he would refocus our attention on Afghanistan and increase troops there in order for us to bring it to a close in 2014, and he is still on track to do so. Or, did you not know any of that either?You truly are wasting your time looking for all of those links... and I knew that, doesn't mean he's going to keep to his word.Indeed. Why would people post Obama's accomplishments at a site dedicated to debating ideas under a debate related to Obama? confounding....Exactly.The alternative being?People with some real-world experience.only in some people's imaginations. He is smart, moral, and pragmatic;Ugh... I get it! You have a crush on Obama.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

I'll take that as a compliment.it wasn't.Iraq? I clearly don't want to read that.Right - you would prefer ignorance.You truly are wasting your time looking for all of those linksI looked them up over 2 years ago to cure someone else's ignorance.Ugh... I get it! You have a crush on ObamaUgh, I get it you don't. And looking through all of the arguments on this debate we can see that anti-Obama opinion is founded upon...?
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

If things had gone wrong, you know where the blame would have went.Yep... and we also know from this list where a lot of the credit is going.I'll reiterate what I said: Obama gave credit to military and counterterrorism professionals, allies, etc. and took credit only for working with intelligence officials and giving the order - the credit to which he was entitled. refwhether to use a drone strike or Seal teamSeems like a pretty easy decisionWould the same be said if any of the seal team had been killed, or if the mission wasn't successful?
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

Would the same be said if any of the seal team had been killed, or if the mission wasn't successful?Yes. How long were we looking for Bin Laden?
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

I responded to this... not sure if you noticed.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

Yea, when I replied to one of the arguments they all disappeared from the New Arguments list - just started trying to find the ones I hadn't got to yet. Will start with this one.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

2) StimulusSince we were debating the debtThe debate basically went straight from the mention of stimulus to debating the debt which I think misses some important aspects of the stimulus:> how much deeper would the recession have gone with no intervention (if there is any time for increasing government debt, it is during recessions)> The Stimulus was signed on February 17, 2009 and the recession officially ended in June 2009> GDP was -8.3% in Q4 of 2008 but went into the positive range (+1.3%) by Q3 of 2009 (from bea.gov Table 1.1.1)> Job growth - We lost nearly 2 million jobs in Q4 of 2008 and 2.3 million in Q1 of 2009 but the trajectory changed and we started adding private sector jobs by March 2010 and the private sector has since added jobs for 44 months in a row ref refYou just assumed that I meant Jan. '09- Jan '12As you just mentioned, you said "in his first three years", which by definition was Jan 2009 to Jan 2012, so I made no assumptions in that regard.I assume that you think it was Bush's fault entirely...That would be an incorrect assumption. There is certainly blame enough to go around for Clinton, Summers, the Reserve, the SEC, Congress, ratings agencies, the investment banks, and many othersA few things:i) Of course since the collapse happened before Obama took office, all of these pre-date his term and policies.ii) The causes of the collapse would seem to be a lot more relevant to the discussion of Wall Street Reform rather than the Stimulusiii) On repealing Glass Stegall - > The repeal was a conservative idea. The bill that repealed it was called the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, named for 3 Republicans, and initially every Democrat in the Senate except Fritz Hollings of South Carolina voted against it - ref> I'll let Clinton explain what blame he thinks he deserves and what he doesn't refiv) reducing Fed interest rates to get past the dot-com bubble is different than keeping them there long afterv) Part of Dodd-Frank was directed at fixing the conflict of interests that Credit Rating Agencies. It is still in progressvi) SEC allowing unlimited leverage and superseding anti-predatory lending laws occurred under Bush and are addressed in Dodd-Frank ref refvii) Executive incentives/claw-backs are also addressed in Dodd-Frank ref
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

11) Mubarakdo you remember who came next? Morsi, which ended up resulting in even more protests.Does the inability to establish a full democracy in Egypt in a year mean Mubarak should have continued his 30 year reign?12) Reversed Bush Torture PoliciesYou really believe that they aren't still torturing terrorists?Here is the Executive Order that was issued. Politifact followed up in Nov 2011 and still rated the promise as kept ref. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?13) America’s Image AbroadEveryone's pissed offOur favorability is still up an average of 10% from 2008 ref14) Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program, Expanded Pell Grant SpendingI don't know much about this, so alrightInstead of securing bank loans through Federal Family Educational Loan program (guaranteeing profits for banks), loans are now issued directly to students saving about 68 Billion over the next 10 years.Some of that savings will be used to increase the number of Pell grants and they tied the maximum Pell grant award to CPI.15) Race to the TopNot many people support that oneArgumentum ad populum. Note that 'many people' includes many Democrats who don't like the pressure on teacher unions and focus on charter schools etc. rather than disparities between rich and poor schools.The initial results are mixed, but I'll demur from a conclusive opinion until more results are in. TN and DC16) Boosted Fuel Efficiency StandardsWe'll see how that goes...The standards started with the 2012 model year so we are already seeing how that goes. Should we expect it to go any differently than raising fuel standards have gone in the past?17) Coordinated International Response to Financial CrisisObama's economic/financial record is not good, if you haven't noticedThat's not exactly a response to the topic if you haven't noticed.18) Passed Mini StimuliAnd now there's a controversy about where that money really wentI think it is referring to this which wasn't an allocation of money so wondering where it went is not a valid concern - it was a series of tax cuts and credits along with extending unemployment (the payroll tax cut was extended for another 2 months in December 2011).19) Asia PivotBegan? Two years later and not a single marine is over there.200 marines just got back from spending 6 months over there. Also, Navy ships touring that area have nearly doubled. The the next round of 1,150 Marines can't be sent until next year because the base hasn't been built by the Australian government yet. ref20) Increased Support for VeteransYet more veterans supported Romney than Obama Ad populum strawman, and not a great one at that.There aren't good statistics on how veterans vote since it is illegal to ask them (18 USC 596), however, Fox News did an exit poll of Veterans in Virginia which showed both candidates getting 49%. refAdditionally Obama got nearly double the campaign donations from Military personnel. ref
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

Does the inability to establish a full democracy in Egypt in a year mean Mubarak should have continued his 30 year reign?The Egyptian opinion of America has gone down since then. Should we have gotten involved in the first place? It seems like we did more harm than good.Here is the Executive Order that was issued. Politifact followed up in Nov 2011 and still rated the promise as kept ref. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/ the-guantanamo-testimonials-project/testimonies/prisoner-testimonies/guantanamo-torture-and-humiliation-still-going-on-says-shackled-Briton Of course, that may not be the most reliable of information... but I seriously doubt that they aren't still torturing terrorists. Our government may even be outsourcing torture to other countries.Our favorability is still up an average of 10% from 2008It's up for certain nations, but it's also down for many countries. http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/06/13/global-opinion-of-obama-slips-international-policies-faulted/ That's not exactly a response to the topic if you haven't noticed.That comment didn't really help either, if you haven't noticed.There aren't good statistics on how veterans vote since it is illegal to ask them (18 USC 596), however, Fox News did an exit poll of Veterans in Virginia which showed both candidates getting 49%http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/10/08/poll-66-percent-of-military-members-support-romney/ http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/memorial-day-does-romney-have-more-support-military-veterans-obama
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

Initially we were publicly supportive and privately firm, but after long train of abuses and usurpations (e.g. arresting bloggers, postponing elections, decreeing that demonstrations in support of the judges who want independence from executive authority were illegal, putting Presidential contenders in jail, beating torturing and killing protesters, etc.), Obama said there should be a peaceful transition and that it should include free and fair elections, freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, and the freedom to access information.http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/18/world/middleeast/18egypt.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/world/ middleeast/28diplo.html http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/02/01/remarks-president-situation-egypt As far as intervention goes, it seems pretty logical and perhaps even too light.Creating a democratic government over 80 million people is no easy feat, but is worth the effort - you disagree?
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/ the-guantanamo-testimonials-project/testimonies/prisoner-testimonies/guantanamo-torture-and-humiliation-still-going-on-says-shackled-briton (your link has an extra space after 'projects/' and before 'the-')that may not be the most reliable of informationLooks like legitimate information to me - you just forgot to check one thing - the date December 11, 2004
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

Looks like legitimate information to me - you just forgot to check one thing - the date December 11, 2004Dammit! I should have noticed that.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

It's up for certain nations, but it's also down for many countries.That's why I used the average for all the countries that had data for 2008 and 2013:Country     '08 Fav  '13 fav  difSpain            33% | 62%   +29%Indonesia     37%  | 61%  +24%France          42%  | 64%  +22%Germany       31%  | 53%  +22%Australia       46%  | 66%  +20%Mexico          47%  | 66%  +19%Argentina      22%  | 41%  +19%Japan            50%  | 69%  +19%South Africa   60%  | 72%  +12%Turkey           12%  | 21%   +9%South Korea   70%  | 78%   +8% Russia            46%  |��51%   +5% Britain            53%  | 58%   +5% China             41%  | 40%  -1% Poland            68%  |��67%  -1% Lebanon         51%  | 47%�� -4% Jordan            19%  |��14%  -5% Egypt             22%  | 16%  -6% Pakistan         19%  | 11%  -8% ---------------------------------------------- Average          40%  | 50%    10% Out of the 19 nations that had data for both years, 6 had a net decrease (less than one-third), and 13 had a net increase (more than two-thirds) - with 9 gaining by double digits.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

Okay... so what about the other 177 nations?
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

If you have poll results for 2008, let's compare.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

No, I don't... but since this debate is about Obama, I'll share the poll results for the global opinion of Obama...http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2013/07/Balance-of-Power34.png
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

global opinion of ObamaWhile his appeal has waned since being newly elected, more than 61.5% of the countries in the poll you reference still rate Obama as favorable. (Thus the title: "Confidence in Obama High but Declining")this debate is about ObamaItem 13 from the list is "Improved America’s Image Abroad" - thus a comparison is in order."Obama is still rated more highly than President George W. Bush was in most countries surveyed in 2007 and 2013. The gap in confidence in the two American leaders is especially large in Europe. But even in the Middle East, where both presidents received low ratings, the Turks, Egyptians and Jordanians are much more likely to have confidence in Obama than they did in Bush."http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/07/18/chapter-2-global-opinion-of-barack-obama/  (the report which includes the image you linked to)"In 37 of the 47 countries surveyed, including the United States, majorities say they have little or no trust in Bush to do the right thing in world affairs. Only in Israel and six of the 10 nations surveyed in sub-Saharan Africa do majorities express confidence in Bush. And in most countries where trend data are available, confidence in Bush has either declined in recent years or held steady at very low levels.""Bush retains majority support in Israel, where 57% express confidence in his leadership. But this represents a decline of 26 percentage points since 2003."http://www.pewglobal.org/2007/06/27/chapter-6-views-of-world-leaders-and-institutions/
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

"Obama is still rated more highly than President George W. Bush was in most countries surveyed in 2007 and 2013. The gap in confidence in the two American leaders is especially large in Europe. But even in the Middle East, where both presidents received low ratings, the Turks, Egyptians and Jordanians are much more likely to have confidence in Obama than they did in Bush."The confidence in Bush was low in 2007, but they're comparing it to the confidence in Obama in 2013. Wouldn't it be safer to compare confidence in Bush from 2005, or wait until 2015 to compare Obama to Bush in 2007?
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

Wouldn't it be safer to compare confidence in Bush from 2005Maybe you should have checked that before suggesting it:             2005   2013Poland    47%   49%Canada   40%   81%Britain     38%   72%Germany 30%   88%Spain      18%   54%Lebanon  23%   37%Russia      28%   29%Indonesia 19%   53%France      25%   83%Jordan       1%    24%Pakistan   10%   10%Turkey       8%    29%Pakistan remained the same, but every other foreign country with numbers for 2005 and 2013 shows an increase under Obama.refref
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

2005  2013Avg: 24%  51%a 27% increase in the overall average.
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: One of the Worst

Yeah... that's pretty bad. Wait... what's the point of all this? Do you think I support Bush? LOL
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

The point was Obama has: "Improved America’s Image Abroad"
Debate: Will Obama recover from the absolute mess he has created as president of the US?
Side: Great President

That comment didn't really help eitherIt provides the opportunity for someone to look at the actual reference:"17. Coordinated International Response to Financial Crisis:To keep world economy out of recession in 2009 and 2010, helped secure from G-20 nations more than $500 billion for the IMF to provide lines of credit and other support to emerging market countries, which kept them liquid and avoided crises with their currencies."and respond if they wish.