azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

The bible does say "Love thy enemy". It also says "Love thy neighbor as thyself" or "Turn the other Cheek". Shouldn't that apply to God or does he get to fill his heart with hatred if he wants to? And apparently "God IS Love" in the bible as well so this is a paradox anyway.God is an anthropomorphized idea. It is this person we created so that we can always feel loved. God has human emotions. He thinks like a human. He reacts to things like a human would. He gets angry and jealous. He kills and hates. He even changes his mind. That is another reason why I am confident that he was created by humans. Because we put our own characteristics into the things we create. We made ghosts, aliens, and fictional AI in our image as well.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

There's only one word for love in English. In Hebrew there are 3 types. It depends on the context in the Hebrew Bible. No one said God is or isn't love. God can speak for himself. I offer theories by a flawed human mind. I'm not God. If he is he is. If he is not, then my or your getting flummixed about it changes nothing.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

I offer the idea that these theories are flawed. How can you look at what is happening in the world and honestly think that there is a God who truly cares about us? The book says one thing, but the reality says another. Its contradictory. God says he loves those who trust in him and yet allows horrible things to befall them regardless of their faith. Or he doesn't. There is no correlation. Plus he provides no real way to verify what he is saying is true. There is no way to know that if you listen to the bible, it is right. He doesn't come down and check up on you. He doesn't grant amazing miracles to anyone (unless it's in the bible). If he does exist, he doesn't care about you. He will let horrible things happen to you and expect you to deal with it. That's why I think he is made up.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

God is an anthropomorphized idea. It is this person we created so that we can always feel lovedSaying God is bad or "I don't like Bible God", then saying Bible God was created to make us feel loved is a contradiction of terms.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Well if you want to get technical, I think God was created by people in power during the time to control you. They offer incentive if you follow him, and punishment if you don't. It's a psychological play on your mind. The church took money for it. In fact, you used to be able to literally pay for your salvation. You could give the church money and get your sins washed away. It was called "Indulgences". A god that is always there and loves you is more appealing than the other wrathful gods you could be following. Saying God love you no matter what was a conversion tactic. Would you rather believe in a pagan god, or a god that always loves you? But this ideology is contradictory because that god that supposedly loves you will torture you if you don't love him back. That's the point. It doesn't make sense. It was used to force people's obedience. The pope was the government and was "chosen by god". If you acknowledge this god exists, you also acknowledge that the governing laws come from this god. But there never was any god. Just a group of men who did horrible things to people who didn't agree with them.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

God has human emotions. He thinks like a human. He reacts to things like a human wouldJesus was/is a human.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Not even just Jesus. God has emotions. God has wrath and envy and impatience. Even before Jesus there are passages about God doing things based on how he feels. God told Abraham to kill his son, and then changed his mind. God kills Lot just for looking at something he didn't want him to. God allows Job to be punished and tormented by the devil just to see if he will still follow him. He is anthropomorphized. He has hands and feet like a human (in all of his depictions). He has thoughts like a human. In fact, most people make him and older white man so it's not just one level of bias. We even think of God like a human person. We talk to him in a human language, we ask him to make human decisions about our lives.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

He gets angry and jealousThere is a difference between jealousy and envy. Envy wants what is not yours. Jealousy is manifested when something is yours. To have aprehension that someone is on your property without permission is rather normal.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Ok fine. Following the philosophy I guess he would only get jealous because technically he owns everything. But this is still a human emotion regardless. An omnipotent being who has total control and power, and no physical human brain or chemicals, should get jealous of something small and physical in our simple little realm. It is the rational of a human mind to think god would care about human things.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

He kills and hatesDefending your own from someone actually is based in love.The Canaanites were destroyed, yes. They also were sacrificing babies to Baal (who is Satan. Baal- prefix to baal-zebub in the Jewish encyclopedia.) by cooking them alive.I loved my cousin. He came into my yard drunk and came after my mother. I punched him propbably 80 times to subdue him. I loved him. I loved her.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

It's not just in defense of people he loves. He kills Job's family to test him. He kills the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. Pretty much the whole world in Noah's Ark story. Lot's wife, all the innocent first-born Egyptian children for a plague, a bunch of the Israelites (his own people) in the desert, a baby boy to punish David for adultery (I think this is in Samuel), he kills several people with lions, foreigners for not worshipping him, and even Ezekiel's wife just because (Ezekiel 24:15-18).But if you are going to make the Old Testament argument, I would bring up Ananais and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-10) and King Herod. This is just the killing portion. I didn't bring up God's hatred which is definitely a wicked emotion. It's literally the opposite of love.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

He favors the people with money over the people without and he tortures innocents based on random circumstances."Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."biblehub.com/matthew/19-24.htmLooking at his disciples, he said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.biblehub.com/luke/6-20.htm
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Says one thing, does another. The rich flourish in this world. They are unaffected by the disease and struggles of the poor. If you happen to be born poor, you are screwed. God doesn't have anything for you until after you die.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

he tortures innocents based on random circumstances."Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy." Matthew 5:7"For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you." Matthew 6:14
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

What does mercy have to do with God sending people to hell? Or God allowing innocent children to be born into disgusting, horrible situations? I'm basically talking about the "Problem of Evil". No bible quotes answer that.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

I have no idea who "goes to hell" or what hell even literally is. One verse says "can destroy a soul in hell." "Hell" is the same as love in Hebrew. We have one word for "hell". Hebrew has many with different meanings and conceptualizations.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

When you say Hell is the same as love in hebrew do you mean its literally the same word?
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

No, I mean it has multiple meanings in Hebrew, making translation sketchy. It's like the Cherokee language. There is no word for love in Cherokee, so it gets interesting trying to translate the Bible into Cherokee. To the Jews"Hell" meant many different things, many of which have nothing to do with judgement, punishment, nor being "eternal".
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Thats pretty cool. I did not know that. But I am fairly convinced that when most christians talk about Hell, they are referring to a place of eternal torment.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

You might know how Christians who read English theoretically might think on the issue. We don't know what transalatory issues there are in hundreds of other languages. They might have a different take on the topic. What we do know is that Jesus was a Jew in the Bible, and the Jews used the other conceptualizations of hell that I provided.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

So do you believe in a Hell? Like a place of torment that God sends you to?
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/hell-sheol-hades-paradise-and-the-grave/
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Actually, I did know a few of those were used such as Hades, Tartarus, and Gehenna.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

Or God allowing innocent children to be born into disgusting, horrible situations? I'm basically talking about the "Problem of Evil"1)The Bible says that some of those who we entertain are angels. Perhaps God wants to see what you do in a situation. He already knows what He would do. If you or I haven't done anything to help these kids, this argument wouldn't be a good one to present to God IMO.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

I could see if you mean a random person is like some sort of angel or something, but that is definitely not the case for everyone. I know people personally who have been brought up and tormented. These people are human. They have lives just like me. There are entire regions of people who are brought up in turmoil. To say that they are all probably angels testing us is callus. There are real people who suffer for no good cause. There are real people who have to witness a loved one die of horrible circumstances and they lose their faith because they cannot reconcile a just god who would put them through that. I agree with those people.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

there are real people who suffer for no good cause.You're making an assumption here based on an emotional appeal rather than an intellectual appeal IMO. We don't know the cause or the ripple effect of an event that leads into another event, which leads to another event. These effects are incalculable to a human mind. We have no way to know if the end justifies the means.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Well my assumption is based on what I can see around me. I may not know exactly how every situation ends up, but I do know that innocents suffer. Some of which are so devastated that it affects them for the rest of their lives. There's no justification for that. There's no rule of Karma for these people. This is definitely an appeal to intellect. I can't see any rational in a God who would do these things to people.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

I may not know exactly how every situation ends up, but I do know that innocents sufferEveryone "suffers" if they live to any age at all. This sounds like an appeal to different levels of suffering. Different people have different levels to their suffering. An omniscient being would know if your faith would collapse even without much suffering. If suffering causes good somewhere, somehow, is God obligated to the complex web of equations that get to this "good" or is he obligated to stop all suffering. It's semantics to me. Example? My grandfather loved God. In his last days he loved and praised God even in tremendous suffering. That is a trophy on my grandfather's life. Is God obligated to allow it, or does he have the right to take away the suffering and not allow my grandfather to prove his metal? It's subjective in terms of the "moral thing to do". Life isn't black and white. Sometimes the greatest beauty is painted with dark colors.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

I think that was elegantly put. "Sometimes the greatest beauty is painted with dark colors". Although these are just ponderings of what could be the mind of God. Is it really all just a test of faith? And if this omniscient being knows the strength of your faith, why would he collapse one's while mildly testing another's? Theres no consistency for it. If you are born into a rich family in a good country, your faith will be tested lightly for the most part. You will know little suffering. But if you are born in a third world country, you might live your entire life in a state of suffering and not know god at all.I find that there is beauty in people who overcome their suffering with no appeal to a god at all. When religious people suffer, they will pray. When they overcome it, they tend to attribute their triumph to their god. Yet when an atheist suffers, and then overcomes their suffering, they can truly rejoice in oneself. Or in a person that comes to them out of the goodness of their heart.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

From a purely intellectual point of view, he may not find one "basking in their own glory" to be what he hopes to obtain from an individual. Omnipotent Field studies may show that this mindset isn't congruent with his plan or goal. He may be simply looking for the one who deflects glory. In the Bible, this was Satan's named flaw arrogance/self glorification, basking in his own beauty, and judgemental towards others. When Christ came he was poor, washed peoples' feet and sacrificed himself for others. He even disallowed a person from calling him "good".
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

This is yet another issue I take with Christianity. It focuses so much on the rejection of self. It focuses on the idea that you are a sinner and are unworthy from the beginning of your existence. You must reject any "pride" and reach out to God in order to be saved. You cannot save yourself. God must save you. Although some regard this as a virtue, I don't agree with that view. Perhaps it's because I was raised in a country that takes pride in its individualism. You must make your own worth and the harder you work, the more money you make. Everything I have in my life I earned myself. Yet there is no consolation for me in Christianity. I must submit myself to an idea on my knees and sacrifice all that I am. And there is little evidence or reason to show why I should believe this is the truth. I am expected to just do it.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

This is yet another issue I take with Christianity. It focuses so much on the rejection of self. It focuses on the idea that you are a sinner and are unworthy from the beginning of your existenceMaybe we are. Maybe we won't remember any of this and what we gravitate towards here is simply a personal reference to God of your nature when temptation and struggles arrive. But where we will be there is no temptation or struggle, but he still knows what we would do. That gives you value even in a utopian world. He knows who you are in a non-utopian world. He knows you inside and out by having witnessed you in real time. Thebook of Job is an illustration of this concept. Satan tells God "of course he loves you. You give him everything". So now God knows how Job is when you take away everything. This enhances Job's personal value and relationship to God.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Well you can maybe all day, but before we get to that point, there needs to be a way to know if there even is a god or afterlife in the first place. If there isn't even that, then it's pointless to try and figure out the rest.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

And if this omniscient being knows the strength of your faith, why would he collapse one's while mildly testing another's?For all we know he has seen us in every position possible, and some people have no versions where they remain faithful or accept him. And this is simply just another version where said person doesn't remain faithful.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

https://youtu.be/2SGXZYinnaM
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Lol yes I wish life was more like Bruce Almighty. Unfortunately, this is just a movie. Here is a movie with a contrary example. Someone who does not deserve the torment they are subject to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UuYTHwZbOQ
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

Everybody wants "God to do something". He already knows what he'd do. Die for all who can accept it and face torment and crucifixion. He's looking to see what you will do about it. If we hear about starving children, will you try to feed them? Will we blame him ? If we see a hurting person, will we have empathy? Will we care? He's not the one taking the test. That already happened. We are taking the test now. He showed his metal. Now it is our turn.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

There is some wisdom in your thinking. However, you don't need a God to get to this point. You can have empathy and care for one another based on the person that you are inside. You can do good for somebody without the threat of eternal torment or promise of salvation. It doesn't need to be a test. It can just be that we are all here and nobody really knows what is going on. But we all want this to be a beautiful place and to have a better world. There's no dogma telling us that. It can just come from yourself. In fact, that's where it is coming from anyway. There is no god hovering over your every action. You do good things on your own.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

There are real people who have to witness a loved one die of horrible circumstances and they lose their faith because they cannot reconcile a just god who would put them through that. I agree with those peopleI have no legs. I still have faith. And I disagree with those people. I accept it and go on.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

Well that really comes down to experiences in life. My experience with religion was a struggle. I tried very hard to reconcile it, especially in difficult circumstances. When I called out to God, I got no answer. When I fought for my belief, I was beaten down and broken. When I had questions, there were no solid answers. I came to a point where I decided to start from scratch. I said if there really is a God, he will find me. I decided to look at the world with new eyes. When I started fresh, I kept a very open mind and took nothing for granted. I truly explored all kinds of different philosophies and answered so many questions for myself. I found that for me, atheism resonated the best, although I do agree with a few bits and pieces from other religions. I don't believe my journey is done and I am still exploring with open eyes. In fact, I probably wouldn't be on this website if I thought I had everything figured out. I like debating and hammering it out with people because I learn things that I wouldn't have if I would've just stayed out of it. Some people are afraid to talk religion, but it is intriguing to me (Probably because of my background). But honestly, I find a lot more beauty in the world where I am at now than where I was with my catholic background. I still find God in different ways, but I wouldn't say it's anything near to what the God I used to believe in is like, so I continue to say I am an atheist, although I am probably more of an agnostic taoist or something. I read the bible and that is not where I found god. But perhaps it resonates more with you. For me, it's the little things in nature and people. I think if anything, we are all god, but I have nothing to prove it. I reject the idea that we are all sinners because to me that ideology is ugly. I really do think that the Christian god was invented to control people and it looks nothing like a real god would.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

When I called out to God, I got no answer. When I fought for my belief, I was beaten down and broken. When I had questions, there were no solid answersUnderstood. And it sounds familiar. The Psalmist questions God and calls out. He is even angry at God. Jesus himself cried out "why". The Bible definately does not depict a reality any different than what you describe. Here are a couple of somewhat short videos you might find interesting to watch if you get the time to do so.https://youtu.be/lps36TVvIhttps://youtu.be/v1Yhab36Y0I
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: Yes.

I watched these videos. Although the first one makes a convincing argument, I think it's an appeal to emotion to need a god to justify the purpose of one's suffering. I do believe that this world tends to be cold in its nature. There is no good answer to give that person for their suffering. Sometimes horrible things happen to people just because and there is literally nothing we can do about it. Hence why I don't totally deny people their religions. Some people need to find this comfort and this hope. They couldn't stand the thought of suffering and dying for no reason at all. It's scary to think that nobody is in control of everything and it is comforting to think there is an ultimate plan for everything. Yet for me it still begs the question. If your suffering did have some good effect somehow in the future, isn't it unjust to judge individuals based on their personal choices yet subject them to torment for some overall good? Shouldn't a person of good faith see some benefit of it in their lifetime? Shouldn't the one who rejects God feel the torment? Why does the innocent have to suffer in order for the sinner to benefit? It doesn't answer my question. It leaves a hole for my intellect.
Debate: Is this universe created by solely natural processes?
Side: No.

Some people need to find this comfort and this hope. They couldn't stand the thought of suffering and dying for no reason at all. I have already come to grips that "I might be wrong". It doesn't bother me. I'm not a highly emotional person, thus I tend to find emotional appeals unconvincing and pointless. I have many tough questions for the atheist, and I find faith to be quite reasonable and actually rather intellectualy stimulating.