Debate: Modern music is contributing to the downfall of society.
Side: No

There is no definitive way to value poetry...That was my point. Thank you for reiterating it.How do you know that?Because I didn't get dropped as a child. Also I have ears.That is a strange conclusion to make. There is an incredible amount of cultural difference between western democracies.Eh, I guess it's relative, but my point was that we aren't arguing about peruvian hip-hop or Tuvan throat-singing so I think that we both understand the relevant cultures enough to meaningfully comment about them.I shall enjoy this. First, I shall attempt to discern the meaning of the lyrics, in the context that you have provided:Good, I'll enjoy it too. I love music so it should be fun.Sorry I didn't go through the whole song and analyze it but last time I tried putting a lot of effort into a debate with you, you ended up just giving a trite response. Now that I know you plan on putting thought into this discussion (thank you for doing so by the way) I will be happy to discuss the song, which I think can be judged as better than the U2 song you provided on a level that is more than subjective. First, the full lyrics:[Verse 1:]I'm fearlessNow hear thisI'm earless And I'm peer-lessThat means I'm eyelessWhich means I'm tearlessWhich means my iris resides where my ears isWhich means I'm blindedBut I'mma find it I can feel it's nearnessBut I'mma veer so I don't come nearLike a chicken or a deerBut I remember I'm not a listener or a seer so my windshield smearHere, you steer, I really shouldn't be behind this, clearly cause my blindness The windshield is minstrel, the whole grill is roadkill, so trill and so sincere. Yeah, I'm both them thereTook both pills, when a bloke in a trench coat and the locs in the chair had approached him hereAnd he clear as a ghost, so a biter of the throats in the mirrorThe writer of the quotes for the ghosts who supplier of the notes to the livingRiveting is rosy, pockets full of posies, given to the mother of the deceased. Awaken at war, 'til I'm restin' in peace [Chorus 1:]You goin' over niggas' heads Lu (Dumb it down)They tellin' me that they don't feel you (Dumb it down)We ain't graduate from school nigga (Dumb it down)Them big words ain't cool nigga (Dumb it down)Yeah I heard Mean And Vicious nigga (Dumb it down)Make a song for the bitches nigga (Dumb it down)We don't care about the weather nigga (Dumb it down)You'll sell more records if you (Dumb it down) [Verse 2:]And I'm mouthlessWhich means I'm soundlessNow as far as the hearing, I've found itIt was as far as the distance from an earring to the ground isBut the doorknockers on the ear of a stewardess in a LearShe fine and she flyin, I feel I'm flying by'em 'cause my mind's on cloud nine and in her mind at the same timePimp C the wings on the underground kingWho's also KlingonTo infinity and beyondSomething really stinks, but I Spinks like LeonOr lying in the desertI'm flying on Pegasus you're flying on the pheasantRider of the white powder, picker of the fire flowers, spit hot fire like Dylon on Chappelle's skitYeah, smell it on my unicorn, don't snort the white horse, but toot my own horn (sleep) [Chorus 2:]You've been shedding too much light Lu (Dumb it down)You make'em wanna do right Lu (Dumb it down)They're getting self-esteem Lu (Dumb it down)These girls are trying to be queens Lu (Dumb it down)They're trying to graduate from school Lu (Dumb it down)They're starting to think that smart is cool Lu (Dumb it down)They're trying to get up out the hood Lu (Dumb it down)I'll tell you what you should do (Dumb it down) [Verse 3:]And I'm brainlessWhich means I'm headlessLike Ichabod Crane isOr foreplay-less sex isWhich makes me stainlessWith no neck left to hang the chain withWhich makes me necklace-lessLike a necklace theftAnd I ain't used my headrest yetThey said they need proof like a vestless chest 'bout the best, fair F-F-jet in the nestWho exudes confidence and excess depthEven Scuba Steve would find it hard to breatheAround these leagues My snorkle is a tuba, Lu the ruler around these seasWestside Poseidon, Westside beside'em, chest high and risingAlmost touching the knees of stewardess and the pilotLucky they make you floweredPersonal floating devices, tricks falling out of my sleevesDavid BlaineMake it rainYou Make a boatI make a planeThen, I pull the plug and I make it drainUntil I feel like flowing and filling it up again..(Westside) [Chorus 3:]You putting me to sleep nigga (Dumb it down)That's why you ain't popping in the streets nigga (Dumb it down)You ain't winning no awards nigga (Dumb it down)Robots and skateboards nigga? (Dumb it down)GQ Man Of The Year G? (Dumb it down)Shit ain't rocking over here B (Dumb it down)Won't you talk about your cars nigga? (Dumb it down)And what the fuck is goyard nigga (Dumb it down) Make it rain for the chicks (Dumb it down)Pour champagne on a bitch (Dumb it down)What the fuck is wrong with you? (Dumb it down)How can I get on a song with you? (Dumb it down)[Gemini: talking]Look B, here's my man, my two way, (hey) uh, what should I - ah here take this (hey) that right there, fuck what my boys talk about nigga, (hey) nigga you hot to me, I like you (Dumb it down)[Lupe:]Bishop G, they told me I should come down cousin, but I flatly refuse I ain't dumb down nothing Now the first verse (the one you analyzed) is him talking to the fans of hip-hop/rap that he considers ignorant. In the first line he claims he is fearless because the whole song is essentially taking on the established paradigm of rap's subject matter which often is unintelligent and degrading to women (a common theme in Lupe's songs is criticizing those rappers which degrade women).By saying that he is earless, peerless and eyeless he is saying that he can't hear or see the critics (which are represented in the chorus) and that because of this he is tearless...in other words these critics don't bother him. Obviously the peerless part is a double entendre which could mean that he either has no equal when it comes to rap, or that no other rappers are doing what he is doing by criticizing the ignorance of many hip-hop artists.Another interpretation of this verse is that he is talking about blinded fans looking instead of listening ("which means my iris resides where my ears is"). The bullshit that exists in many rap songs is blinding, but Lupe says I'mma veer so I don't come near. The 'chicken or a deer" part is simply a metaphor about how he avoids the BS prevelant in mainstream rap like people avoid animals in the road (although if you can think of an alternative meaning I'd love to hear it...knowing Lupe there might be one).The line about him not being "a listener or a seer" means that he can't see clearly (my windshield smear) because he is the artist and not the audience. He doesn't have the proper perspective to judge his own lyrics and therefore hands over the wheel to the audience though, but they don't avoid what he had to veer away from so "the whole grill is roadkill. Another interpretation of this verse is that he is thinking about giving up the wheel entirely by separating himself from the rap game entirely because it is a "minstrel" show. (If your not familiar with what this is, it was when white people dressed in blackface and acted like caricature of black people. What Lupe is saying is that those people raping the the songs are portraying blacks no better.) In his next line he makes a reference to the matrix by saying he took both pills. What this likely means is that he is living in two worlds at the same time: the BS one created by ignorant hip-hop artists, and the "real" one which is where he believes the truth to lie. He is both a part of the hip-hop/rap world and removed from it at the same time."The writer of the quotes for the ghosts who supplier of the notes to the living" appears to be him saying that he is a ghostwriter for ghost writers.In the final line of this verse he talks about how he is "Riveting as Rosie" which is a reference to the WWII Rosie the Riveter poster. This is a reference both to how good his raps are, and how he is looking to empower women with his rhymes...something not often seen in hip-hop/rap songs. This reference also relates to the rest of the line which goes Awaken at war, 'til I'm restin' in peace which likely means that he will be fighting until he dies to change the hip-hop/rap game for the better.The first Chorus is relatively self explanatory. It represents the pressure put on rappers (and specifically on Lupe) to conform to the standard themes of hip-hop and "dumb down" his lyrics. The first Chorus is mostly concerned with the fact that many of his lyrics are heady, and that most of the uneducated people in the hood don't want to hear that kind of music.I'm going to stop here for the sake of brevity, and because I think I've made my point.The extract from "Dumb it Down" contains a host of immodestiesMost of which you misinterpreted (not through any fault of your own, I only gave you a portion of the song and I know how hard it is to search "Dumb it Down" Lyrics on google). He was really saying that he is trying to avoid the BS that rap portrays and how he refuses to dumb down his lyrics for the sake of an ignorant audience. Now you could argue that he is being immodest by claiming that his raps are more intelligent than other rappers, but I doubt he'd find a lot of opposition to that point, especially if we are only looking at mainstream rap.some superficial contradictionsAre you saying that these phrases are only contradictory on the surface (superficially)? If so then I'd say that this isn't a problem since the song is meant to be read on a deeper level.some rhyming Is this a criticism?and some colloquialismsThe language he is using is the language he grew up using in Chicago, and the language that his audience is familiar with. This may be the only part where cultural differences may create an issue in listening. I'm used to listening to this kind of music so it doesn't bother me, but you may have to force yourself to look past it if your going to look at lyrics like these.If you are arguing that coloquilisms in a work of art is a negative, however, then I would ask you to read what many consider to be the single most important piece of American fiction: Huckleberry Fin.as well as an ill conceived metaphor or twoThere is quite a few more than one or two metaphors, and any that you interpreted to be ill conceived, likely come from a misunderstanding on your part and not a lack of talent on Lupe's, but if you insist that they are ill conceived then I would be happy to talk about any specific lines.Like I said before, Lupe's lyrics are extremely complex and I get new meanings out of them on almost every listen. Therefore i likely missed something when going through the song, and possibly misinterpreted a thing or two.Your U2 song on the other hand is relatively straightforward. While it uses one or two lines that are open to multiple interpretations and double meanings, "Dumb it Down" is filled with them. Now this can't be held against "New York" completely because double meanings of rhymes is a huge part of the genre and less so with U2's type of music. Even rap songs I consider to be inferior usually have a couple clever turns of phrase that have meanings deeper than what they first appear to be (one of the reasons I enjoy the genre). Also, pointing out there's a lot of diversity in New York is pretty weak political commentary. I guess their next song is going to be about how many Christians they see when they go to Church. How edgy.In short, while I'm sure that U2 wrote a very nice song about New York, it doesn't hold a candle to "Dumb it Down" lyrically. There is a simple reason for this: rap is almost all about the lyrics, and few do it better than Lupe. I find it funny though that you use your own lack of ability to understand the lyrics of "Dumb it Down" as a negative. I know when I read many famous works of poetry the meaning is not apparent immediately to me, but usually I don't just write the whole thing off as shitty. Otherwise I never would have come to like T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland" (seriously, if you've never read it before, read through a part of it once and see if you can decipher the meaning).I don't blame you though for not understanding it. I had a serious advantage in that this is a genre I listen to often, and this particular song I've listened to about a hundred times. What you should realize though, is that while "New York" may make one allusion in the whole song (the one about the titanic) there are more allusions than I can count on both hands (and probably at least one foot).I can understand though if you want simpler songs. They require less thinking, and the meanings are not far below the surface. I wouldn't ask Lupe to do that though because I bet he'd respond with: "*I flatly refuse, I ain't dumb down nothing."