azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

The article i cited is from the National Inquirer and of course ithe site is run by yet another one in your ' conspiracy theory ' scenariosYou claim I am the one who believes in "conspiracy theories" in an attempt to discredit me. But you are propagandising an unproven theory about a conspiracy of kamikaze cave-dwelling Jihadists, which extends to believing dozens of notable scientists are writing hoax papers. Furthermore, you are trying to persuade people that their research is a hoax by linking opinion pieces in The National Inquirer and the website of a "pseudo-scientific" paranormal research society.I shall leave you with some nice extracts from another peer-reviewed 2006 paper written by professor of physics, Dr Stephen Jones:-Even with its strength halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed by a 650 °C fire." (Eagar and Musso, 2001; emphasis added.)We see from the photograph above that solid metal from the WTC rubble existed at salmon-to-yellow-hot temperature (approx. 1550 - 1900 oF, 845 - 1040 oC.) The temperature is well above the melting temperatures of lead, zinc and aluminum, and these metals can evidently be ruled out since they would be runny liquids at much lower (cherry-red or below) temperatures. However, the observed hot specimen could be structural steel (from the building) or iron (from a thermite reaction) or a combination of the two. Additional photographs of the hot metal could provide further information and advance the research.Then we have the model of Bazant and Zhou, which requires the majority of the 47 huge steel columns on a floor of each Tower to reach sustained temperatures of 800oC and buckle (not melt) – at the same time. But as we’ve seen, such temperatures are very difficult to reach while burning office materials, in these connected steel structures where the heat is wicked away by heat transport (Paul and Hoffman, 2004, p. 26). And then to undergo failure at the same time for straight down collapse, well, no, this scenario is far too improbable.http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200609/WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

Yes you're a 'truther ' . Your 'dozens ' of scientists work has all been de -bunked .Yes the CSI evaluate conspiracy theory claims that's what your claim is .I've read enough of your bullshit to last a lifetime .
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

"Dermot is less intelligent than a soggy bag of McChicken Nuggets, so please feel free to plagiarise his opinion to prove how wrong you are."It doesn't matter who said something, just whether or not it is valid, and it's not plagiarism if I make it clear that it's not my words.I agree that I may be expanding the parameters too much, though I'm specifically talking about free will of belief, not free will in general, so then again I might not be expanding the parameters too much. I don't think we can assume free will is real, especially since the question is basically about whether or not we have free will of belief. I was probably wrong to narrow it down to religious belief, but I don't think we're straying too far off the path."If someone has no direct experience of the choices then it cannot be said "the way they are" causes them to pick a certain choice. Therefore, the participant must necessarily make a decision."In the paragraph which I just quoted you from, you've made a string of unfounded assertions. The way they are will still decide for them, it's kind of like tossing a coin - it may appear random, but things like height off of the ground, force of the flip, etc, will determine what happens before the coin even lands. Same goes for apparent random decisions, if you ask me to choose between to things I've never heard of, it won't be a random decision, the way I am will be the cause of what I "choose," even if I think I'm making a random choice. Have a nice evening.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

Here is an interview with Galen Strawson where he makes his case ......http://www.believermag.com/issues/200303/?read=interview_strawson You're wasting your time on Q all he does is attack and make continuous unfounded claims , he dislikes intensely differing opinions .
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

I read that, and thought it was quite interesting. Thank you for linking it to me.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

You're welcome Mack . The argument annoys the hell out of people because they cannot believe that they may not have free will after all .
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

It doesn't matter who said something, just whether or not it is validWrong again. There is a direct relationship between who says something and the mathematical probability that it is valid. Hence, the variable you claim "doesn't matter" usually affects the outcome you claim does matter. In the paragraph which I just quoted you from, you've made a string of unfounded assertions.If that were true then you would have provided clear, structured examples. Since you have done nothing of the sort, I think it infinitely more likely that you are making a generic right wing political attack. Specifically, the one in which you prevent me from defending myself by deliberately giving no indication what the fuck you are attacking.The way they are will still decide for themYou have not critiqued my "assertions" but rather simply repeated what you said in your last post and ignored the paragraph I wrote which disproves it.it's kind of like tossing a coin - it may appear random, but things like height off of the ground, force of the flip, etc, will determine what happens before the coin even landsIt is nothing like tossing a coin because tossing a coin is a physical action not a mental decision. Are you actually stupid? if you ask me to choose between to things I've never heard of, it won't be a random decisionIf you have never heard of the two things you have to choose between, then how can your decision NOT be random, you fucking idiot? If I ask you to choose between "kktuui" and "endhgl" then clearly your decision will be random, because you possess zero information about what the right choice is.Stop attempting to defend an argument I have explicated is indefensible. Instead, go back to school and learn how to spell properly. Thanks.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

You can't just dismiss something based on who said it. The probability doesn't matter unless it is zero, it's still entirely possible they are correct. You make unfounded assertions because you don't explain why it cannot be said that the way they are causes them to pick a certain thing, you just pussyfoot around it. I will make my argument for why your argument is wrong, but first I'll say that with the coin flipping analogy, I meant to compare the forces on the coin to the electrical impulses and whatnot in the brain that are there under the surface making the decisions because of the way they are. It's not the best analogy and I don't have time to better explain it. Here's my argument for why you "refutation" fails. Firstly, as I've somewhat said already, even if the brain seems to be making random decisions, it would appear that the decisions (like one between "kktuui" and "endhgl") are caused by the brain forming opinions of the two instantly, because of the way it is, where else would the 'choice' come from? If the choice comes from the way one is, then it's not truly a free-will style choice. This is a little bit unfounded, and unclear, but my second argument is better.Secondly, if the decision is truly random, as you say it would be, then it is a product of chance, not free will, and therefore doesn't really count as a choice in the way we're talking about - the person couldn't be held responsible for making that choice if it were only up to chance. If it's only up to chance then it's only up to fate, and not free will. I had to rush this response, sorry if it's unclear.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

Let me add: If it is randomness that causes the result of the choice, then it's not free will. If it isn't randomness, then what could it be other than the way they are (which eventually comes down to randomness as well, and is therefore not freewill)?Also, you may disagree with my taking the debate in the direction of free will, but I feel it's necessary to answer the question, and I'm allowed to go off on tangents that somewhat relate to my point.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

Let me add: If it is randomness that causes the result of the choice, then it's not free will.The result isn't random you infuriating pseudo-intellectual buffoon. The options are random. The result is dependent upon your personal choice of random options which you have had no prior experience with. If you have no experience of something, it cannot therefore be said to "make up part of who you are". It isn't rocket science. If you can't understand the logical validity of this argument then you should not be debating philosophy in the first place.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

The options are random? That's not what you said earlier: " If I ask you to choose between "kktuui" and "endhgl" then clearly your decision will be random" Random options would mean the two (or more) options are randomly selected, and doesn't really have anything to do with this debate in any way that I can see. I'm starting to think you don't understand what I mean when I say "make up part of who you are," and you're taking it out of context. The options don't make up who you are, the way your brain processes the options, even ones it has never heard of, makes up part of who you are.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

You can't just dismiss something based on who said itExcuse me, but you can't just pretend I did this. I completely refuted the point you made, so why are you now pretending I simply dismissed it? You are not being honest and not being honest is the first indication of who has lost a debate.You make unfounded assertions because you don't explain why it cannot be said that the way they are causes them to pick a certain thingThis too is a totally fucking egregious lie. I gave a complete explanation when I refuted your original claim.If you have no experience of something, it cannot be said to "make up part of who you are". If I don't know what it is then how can I have a bias toward it? That is like saying the Taj Mahal makes up part of who I am, even though I have never been anywhere near India.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

"Excuse me, but you can't just pretend I did this."Sorry, I didn't mean 'you' as in you specifically, just as in a general person. I should have said 'criticize' in place of 'dismiss.' "I gave a complete explanation when I refuted your original claim."That simply isn't true, you didn't explain your logic enough."If I don't know what it is then how can I have a bias toward it?" It's not about 'biases' it's about the way your brain will look at the two unfamiliar things. It's not the biases that make up who you are, it's the way your brain thinks, bias is only part of the way your brain works, but it's not necessary for the point I'm making.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

You choose who you worship and how you follow your God of choice....................................................
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

I believe that religious belief is a choice, and it should be a choice. While we may be born into a particular religion due to our parents, society should allow us to choose what religion we want to be a part of after we have become a legal adult. This is because as a existential deist, I believe that we make our own path in life. While our environment and parents shape us into who we are as an adult, it is ultimately up to us to decide who we are as an individual.  While some would argue that being a part of a religion is not a choice, that is against the very foundation of the 1st amendment. Which is freedom of expression. I believe that if America is truly a land of rugged individualism, we should allow religion to be a choice.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

Yes its a Choice.... If its Not a choice whats the purpose of Believing in God.... Any ways What is Religion... Religion Divides, Separate People, Family, Nations, Tongues... But the Love Of God Draw all man Correct Yes.... Thats Why Religion Destroys.... But The love Of God Makes Us Choose Him... And The Love That God Showed us was Pure Religion the Love..... And God Love was His Son JESUS thats Why its Not Hard to let the World Go.... Choose Today whom you gonna Serve... Cant serve to masters.... Only one
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

It should be a choice, whether one wants to believe in something or not, there have been wars in the past with religious groups trying to impose their ideologies on people, but now we have become much more tolerant I think, thanks to a more organised form of governance.. now to really get to the question, we as we grow up from children to adults, have been exposed to a certain kind of religious belief system/ non- religious belief system, that really narrows down things for the rest of our life. For people, who choose to ignore it, not take it very seriously, would not ponder upon the question and would not mind continuing the belief just because they've been exposed to it previously. There are other people who are too emotionally attached to the belief to actually question it, which makes them defend their belief system from an emotional bias irrespective of what arguments are made against the system. Finally, who actually question and are able see something without any bias of any sort, are the ones who can see it to be a choice. It's a choice, at the end of the day, it's people who make it seem that it isn't, but that doesn't stop anyone from changing their beliefs.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

there have been wars in the past with religious groups trying to impose their ideologies on people, but now we have become much more tolerant I think, thanks to a more organised form of governance..Interesting analysis. What are your thoughts on this:-George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa It's a choice, at the end of the day, it's people who make it seem that it isn't, but that doesn't stop anyone from changing their beliefs.I don't believe it is quite that simple. You can't simply expect a person who has been brainwashed to make a choice. It's a vicious circle, because what these people already believe stops them from changing their beliefs. In fairness however, I don't think we can generalise one way or another. Some people can and do overcome indoctrination, while others never do.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

there have been wars in the past with religious groups trying to impose their ideologies on people, but now we have become much more tolerant I think, thanks to a more organised form of governance..by organised form of government, I am referring to what was present in the past and what is present today, sure there are wars even today but the "law" stops me from killing another person just because he/she's of a different religion, I was referring to such advances..I don't believe it is quite that simple. You can't simply expect a person who has been brainwashed to make a choice. It's a vicious circle, because what these people already believe stops them from changing their beliefs. In fairness however, I don't think we can generalise one way or another. Some people can and do overcome indoctrination, while others never do.A belief is something we believe in, and just because one doesn't want to change their belief, doesn't mean they can't, that is, it is a property of a belief to be optional, which inherently is present. However, as you said, there will be people who are brainwashed to the extent that it becomes a belief that what they believe in, is perfectly correct under all circumstances, but there are people who change religious beliefs. So can I generalize for decisions made by people? no, can I make a statement that's based on a property of believing? yes. but that doesn't stop anyone from changing their beliefs.what I meant there was, people can choose to change provided they want to, if they don't want to, they won't.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

For religious belief to work it needs access to immature minds .The majority of believers come to belief through indoctrination which begins from infancy when the child is taken to the local church , temple , mosque and the process begins .The child's family ,friends and society are traditionally of the same belief which makes the process so successful .Have you ever heard a young child ask about god or religion ?The questions are easily answered by the believer and the child's concerns addressed and the child reassured .Indoctrination relies on getting children early before they have developed a BS detector otherwise it won't work .Believers of course will deny this and they dislike the term indoctrination , they will claim everyone is indoctrinated in one way or another which is nonsense as the difference is that traditionally the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or examine critically the doctrine they have learned .Regards religion and god if one was not introduced to religious thinking and the god concept most would reject it for the nonsense it is , imagine an adult reading the bible for the first time and hearing of resurrected humans , talking animals , miracle working messiahs etc ,etc .Religion relies on indoctrination it cannot work without it ,If religion was not through indoctrination and cultural influence how come people in Muslim countries are Muslim and people in Christian countries are Christian choice does not come into it .
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

Actually, I've never in real life heard a young child ask about religion, perhaps that is a result of being taught to accept it without question, or that I just don't know a lot of young kids. I asked my young sister a while ago if she believed in God and she said "I don't know" and didn't seem remotely interested. Not sure what to make of that. I agree that without it being taught at a young age, religion would probably die. I've never heard a religious person give a satisfactory answer to your last point, about place of birth & religion, I think it is one of the best arguments against religion.I wasn't actually intending to make this debate about indoctrination very much, although that is interesting, rather whether people have choice as to the way their brains process available information to form a belief, specifically about religion. I explain this in my first counter argument to quantumhead up above.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

That's interesting , I have heard kids ask god questions especially as they get a bit older and they start to ask questions about almost anything .There is no valid argument against the birth and religion argument , if there is I've yet to hear it .The reason I brought up indoctrination is because choice does not come into it ; the reason I eventually rejected religion is because of exposure to different viewpoints on the whole god /religion question I found the arguments compelling and this changed my mind as I couldn't construct any rational arguments against them .So do you think not think you made a choice as in accepting the validity of new information and finding it convincing ?
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

I pretty much became an atheist the same way as you. I did consciously make the choice to ask questions, but I had no control over whether or not my brain accepted the arguments, or anything like that. I couldn't decide not to accept the validity of new information/find it convincing right? If something is convincing, there's nothing you can do about it, it just is. I can't choose to believe that a red car is blue in the same way, (unless I was presented good evidence that I was colorblind). I don't think I made a choice, and I would argue that you didn't make a choice either, and people who weren't convinced (and remained religious) didn't choose either. You're born with the brain you have, and raised to use it in a certain way, there's nothing you can do to change that.P.S, Could you start using full stops / periods at the end of your sentences, it gets confusing sometimes. :)
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

Why had you no control over whether or not your brain accepted the arguments ?I cannot understand why you say one does not have control reagards acceptance .You're born with the brain you have and raised to use it in a certain way ; what exactly do you mean ' raised to use it in a ceratain way ' ?Sorry about that , will do ......
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

I had no control because the way my brain processes the arguments isn't a choice, it just happens. If my brain says "this argument makes sense" I can't just say "nope" and no longer understand the argument, and I certainly can't do something like say to myself "I think I'll be a Scientologist now," I wouldn't be able to choose to accept that religion, though I could choose to look at the arguments for it, I couldn't choose to be convinced by them if they suck. "what exactly do you mean: 'raised to use it in a certain way?'" I mean that you are taught things, and you don't really have control over that, at least while you are young. The whole thing is sort of a free will question, where if your brain is set to work a certain way, then it's going to respond to certain stimuli in a way that is fixed (which might actually be predictable, with super advanced neuroscience we don't have?). In this situation, one wouldn't have free will, just an illusion. In that way, you wouldn't be able to choose what to believe, though you might have the illusion of choice at times.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

I had a feeling this was going into the whole free will question from the start .The Philosopher Galen Strawson puts together a basic argument as to why we do not have free will .......You do what you do, in any given situation, because of the way you are.To be ultimately responsible for what you do, you have to be ultimately responsible for the way you are — at least in certain crucial mental respects.But you cannot be ultimately responsible for the way you are in any respect at all.So you cannot be ultimately responsible for what you do.If free will is merely illusory should a murderer be punished ? This whole line of enquiry got very ' heated ' last time it was debated and always seems to get so 😊
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: No, because...

That's what I was getting at, though I didn't entirely intend it to begin with. I suppose I agree with Galen Strawson then. I don't know if a murderer should be punished, but they should definitely be kept away from society, at least for a time. I suppose that's a whole new debate topic though.
Debate: Is religious belief a choice?
Side: Yes, because...

Ask Yourself what is Religion.... Pure Religion is Being like Jesus.... James-1:27- Pure Religion and Undefiled Before God and The Father Is this, To visit the Fatherless and widows in their Affliction, and to keep Himself unspotted from the world.... Not having nothing to Do with Evil.... And we are not stupid to Good Nor Evil.... .... If a Man seemeth to be Religious and Bridleth not his tongue... And Decieve His own heart this man religion is (Vain) Meaning How he Serve God Is Nothing....