azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Atheism

Matter cannot be created or destroyed and it simply cannot bring itself into existence thus something must create it and ot must not be limited by the laws of physics inside the spacetime because that implies that it exists in a spacetime and is limited by time so an eternal being must create it if it cannot be created or destroyed.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

...something must create itYou're forgetting another possibility; that matter may have always existed. I don't think you'll find a reputable scientist on the planet that will tell you the universe came from nothing. It was just in a different form than it is now. Give this some thought. The elements that the universe is made of are very simple. A spec of dust is far more complicated than these elements. So which is more likely to have always existed, a spec of dust or an all powerful being capable of creating an entire universe?
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

How did it bring itsepf into existence though? How does something that has an end have an eternal life span? Also if matter cannot be created or destroyed something must create it. It cant just spawn on its own.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

How did it bring itself into existence though?You seemed to have missed my argument. It didn't bring itself into existence, it has always existed. If you think it's possible for an all-powerful being to have always existed, why can't something as simple as the basic elements always exist instead?How does something that has an end have an eternal life span? Matter doesn't have an end. As you said, "matter can't be created or destroyed", therefore it is eternal. It just changes forms. Everything in the universe from stars, to planets, to humans is made up of the same basic elements, so matter takes many forms. Before the big bang that matter was just in a different form. We have no way of knowing for sure what form it was in or what triggered it to change forms since we don't have a time machine to travel back to when it happened. It may be a question we never find an answer to.The point I'm trying to make is that if something as complex as an all-powerful being can be eternal, then surely something as simple as the basic elements can be eternal, and that is more likely than a god because it is much simpler. Occam's Razor.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

The universe is reaching its end. It will either freeze, pull itself apart into oblivion, or crunch back together and start again. Now in astronomy you theory is possible but something must have started it. Thats the point of debating. With your theory the fun of debating ends and there is nothing left to discuss. With mine we can go all day long. Both are possible.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Sure, I'm not saying that your theory isn't plausible, I'm just saying that it is less likely because it is significantly more complex and defies every known law of science.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Ehh I wouldnt say less likely because we cant measure its probability since science, so far, cannot even peer into it. We have discovered things that make zero sense. We may never know. Cant really put a probability stat on it. The theory of lots of things are conplex and become easy when they can be explained. So it a true sense it is just lik the theories produced back then during Platos time or the time of colonial America.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

We can't assign precise probability, but we can weigh the evidence for each hypothesis to see which one is more probable.-HYPOTHESIS 1: The matter that our universe is made of is eternal and just changes forms.Supporting Evidence: 1) We have observed matter.2) We have observed matter change into many different forms.3) The law of conservation of matter states that matter can't be created or destroyed. Therefore, it is eternal.Potential Problems:I can't think of any off the top of my head. Can you think of any?-HYPOTHESIS 2: A powerful and eternal god created the universe.Supporting Evidence:1) God appeared on toast ;) I honestly can't think of anything that isn't easily refuted, so I'll let you come up with the supporting evidence.Potential Problems:1) God would have to be a conscious being. We have never observed consciousness from anything that doesn't have a brain. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but it does seem unlikely.2) It defies the law of conservation of matter and many other laws of science.3) It seems unlikely that something that powerful and intelligent could just exist.4) There is evidence for the Big Bang, such as cosmic microwave background radiation. If the universe was created by an intelligent designer it seems unlikely it would have been done via a chaotic event like the big bang which resulted in a highly unstable and destructive universe where entire galaxies collide, stars explode, and black holes suck up everything in their path.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Your number three still leaves the question as to what created those initial things? They cannot just always exist. They must have been created by something. Also I looked at your bottom problems. Why can an intelligent designer not make the big bang? Why not? Why cant it be conscious? The thing is that just because you didnt or currently dont see it doesnt mean it is there or isnt happening. Those laws are limited to what we can observe in our own space time which I am sure will be our limit for awhile. All I am seeing is "unlikely" because we havent seen it or dont really have a reason to even bother looking for it. If matter cannot be created or destroyed then I think that something must put it there. I dont think we even have the capability to fathom it.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Your number three still leaves the question as to what created those initial things? They cannot just always exist.Then god can't either. Why can something as complex as a god always exist, but something as simple as the basic elements not always exist?They must have been created by something. Then that something that created them must have also been created, and that something had to be created by something, and so on.Why can an intelligent designer not make the big bang?I didn't say it couldn't. I'm saying it would be a very poor way of designing something. The chaos of the universe indicates a lack of design. Why cant it be conscious? Again, I didn't say it couldn't, I said it was unlikely because it defies everything we know about consciousness.The thing is that just because you didnt or currently dont see it doesnt mean it is there or isnt happening.I agree, but until there is some kind of reason to believe something is there or is happening, there is no good reason to do so. It's pure conjecture. Just because I currently don't see fairies doesn't mean they don't exist, but until some evidence is found to support their existence I see no reason to believe in them.If matter cannot be created or destroyed then I think that something must put it there.That's a contradiction. I've changed the last few words of what you said to make it stand out. "If matter cannot be created or destroyed then I think that something must create it."Like I said above, why can something as complex as a god always exist, but something as simple as the basic elements not always exist?
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Like I said. This being can exist outside of our spacetime and it is not applicable to our laws. You cant create an eternal being. Thats impossible but you say my theory contradicts. Tell me if matter cannot be created or destroyed but you are talking about the big bang that is a contradiction. The big bang had a beggining so how would things be there before the big bang? Also you cant have infinite big bangs. That would be an overload of heat. So by your logic something as silly as an eternal being cannot be proven or disproven by science but with science I can lean the argument in my favor by simply stating that:1) If we have evidence of a big bang then it had a beggining and thus cannot be eternal and also makes you contradict your entire theory.2) This being cannot be limited by our laws. It would be limited by time in that sense and thus cannot be an eternal being. You must be Alpha and Omega. 3) This isnt chaos. This is just stuff that isnt normal for us. Stars explode. Black holes form. Dark matter is present. Anti matter could exist. I mean it isnt chaos. These things happen all over the universe on a daily basis.3) True, there is absolutely no reason to believe in such a being. Doesnt mean people vant explore it and believe it is there.4) I cannot contradict myself if my being is not limited by our spacetime and has the ability to create these things. If the being is not limited by our laws or spacetime then it could practically exist and we have no ways of proving it or disproving it. 5) This is a continuation on the chaos bit. This universe is extremely fine tuned and some things still boggle scientists like stars that burn at room temperature or stars the size of jupiter or the theoretical things like nemesis and nibiru. They are all possible. Nibiru and nemesis have been shown to not exist but scientists agree that it is 100% possible for them to exist. This is a fine tuned universe. The way things occur is mind blowing.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

I am not talking about God. I am talking about an intelligent designer. Not God. So I cant really answer your first paragraph because I am not talking about God. Also if the big bang is not the beginning what is? Also you say nothing can happen without time but if you are eternal time is nothing. Time isn't affecting you. I am aware that the frequency of events doesn't mean it isn't chaotic but this isn't chaos. These things are just deadly and catastrophic to us. On a universal scale things will appear to be different. Order in the universe? How is it not ordered? What is order in the universe? A straight line of stars? Multiple earths? Our planet got lucky and had the perfect distance from a star and the perfect elements to support life which happened from these "chaotic" events. Chaos is only in the human mind. Fine tuning? Are you confused on fine tuning? Tell me with earth and its ability to support life is that not fine tuned? Are stars not fine tuned? Are planets not fine tuned? Are black holes not fine tuned? How do you declare something not fine tuned yet this fine tuned universe made life possible on earth? Simply because you cannot find a reason for its existence or cant find anything to support it doesn't mean that people cant still believe in it. Also my example were examples of the things that boggle scientists which should be easy to identify by my diction amid syntax. Fine tuning doesn't imply what you are stating. It doesn't have to have a goal. It is simply fine tuned. Our placement from the sun and our abundance of elements can be seen as fine tuned. Just because it isn't livable doesn't mean it is not fine tuned. I dint think you are seeing this on a large universal scale.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Matter came from the big bang. How in the world does it exist if an infinite lineage of big bangs cannot happen? You said there is proof of the big bang so where does your situation fit? Also the sun cannot supernova and it is sort of a petpeeve when people say that. It will turn into a red giant and exahale all its gas and become a white dwarf. It doesnt have enough msss to supernova. Also by your definition of perfect gravity would not be possible. Object with high mass would have no pull on others. A black hole forms from a collapsed star due to its gravity. A supernova is the start of new life for other stars. Earths gravity pulls those meteors. So what are you trying to say? The universe is fine tuned dispite your definition. Your definition of perfection would not support life. Everything occurs by a chain of random events and a smidge of luck. We are lucky to still be alive. We are lucky oxygen and hydrogen elements were brought to this planet by meteors colliding with earth which you claim to be catastrophic. Those events brought life. If time isnt affecting you you are frozen? Who said that? If time isnt affecting you then you are eternal. You arent bound by space or time and we cannot fathom it because we are bound. Our minds are limited. I already know of other planets and there possibility but they have to be lucky enough to have elements that support life. Other factors play in besides distance. Also fine tuning is on a universal basis. Not a "support life" basis. You are only seeing this from a human perspective. Take this on a grand scale. We are lucky. I know the debate is called "Does God exist?" but the side is labeled "deism".
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Matter came from the big bang. As I already said before multiple times, the big bang didn't create matter, the matter already existed in some other form. The big bang just spread it around. ------------------------------------------ How in the world does it exist if an infinite lineage of big bangs cannot happen?I never said anything about an infinite lineage of big bangs. We have no way of knowing whether there have been other big bangs or what existed before the big bang. It's one of those mysteries we may never know the answer to.------------------------------------------ Also the sun cannot supernova and it is sort of a petpeeve when people say that. It will turn into a red giant and exahale all its gas and become a white dwarf. It doesnt have enough msss to supernova. My bad. Either way, it will wipe out all life on earth.------------------------------------------ The universe is fine tuned dispite your definition.Fine tuned for what? The reason I included those definitions was to show that fine tuning requires a goal or purpose.------------------------------------------ Your definition of perfection would not support life. If I had the power to create a universe I could easily come up with a better universe that could support life. For starters I wouldn't create the whole thing with a big bang, I would put everything neatly in place where it is in perfect harmony and not smashing into each other. I would make planets stable so they aren't plagued with natural disasters. I would make most plants edible, etc. ------------------------------------------ Everything occurs by a chain of >>>random<<< events and a smidge of luck. We are lucky to still be alive. We are lucky oxygen and hydrogen elements were brought to this planet by meteors colliding with earth which you claim to be catastrophic. Those events brought life. You just made my point. The universe is not fine-tuned, it is "random" and we are here by "luck", not fine-tuning by some intelligent designer. If it was fine-tuned our planet wouldn't be plagued with natural disasters. If it's fine-tuned then why are 99% of all species that have ever lived on this planet extinct? Whoever is doing the fine-tuning needs to be fired because he is doing a lousy job.------------------------------------------ If time isnt affecting you you are frozen? Who said that? I said it. Remember, without time there is no sequence of events. Pick any series of actions, like eating a bowl of cereal, and try to imagine how you would do it without a sequence of events? If an intelligent designer does anything at all it would requires a sequence of events. If he/she wants to move a planet 100 yards, the first event would be coming up with the idea to move the planet. The next events would be moving the planet inch by inch until it reaches it's destination. The next event would be stopping the planet. No time, no sequence of events, nothing happens, it's frozen.------------------------------------------ I know the debate is called "Does God exist?" but the side is labeled "deism".I guess I'm blind because I don't see the word "deism" anywhere on this page.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Oops this says thiesm. Wow I thought it said deism this whole time. Wow I feel stupid. I still like debating against my beliefs so I shall continue to dabate with you to learn more logic from an athiest. Now how can matter eternally exist if the big bang spreads it around and it has an end? If not an infinite lineage of big bangs yet one occured how does matter eternally exist? Dont worry lots of people just think it will supernova. I just hear it all too often. Who knows? Maybe there is a purpose. We dont know yet. Highly doubt we will ever know. Also the way you describe a better universe is odd. If things didnt collide with each other then earth wouldnt exist. Earth was made by collisions. Neatly in place in perfect harmony? How so? Woupd you bend the laws of physics and all the astronomical properties that you know of now? The universe you are imagining is odd. Our universe is currently where it is now by a super massive black hole. With all the fluff in your perfect universe life would not exist. Random events from a fine tuned universe. I thought this was implied already. Why are we plagued by natural disasters? Because that is how things work in the universe. Just because humans cant live doesnt mean that the universe is not fine tuned. Everything that goes on is simply amazing and mind blowing. From the biggest stars to stars that burn at 80 degrees farhenhiet to pulsars (which are just neutron stars) to the creation of life. How can you be affected by time if you started the clock? Why would you be frozen? I understand the sequence of events but even the bible had a semi right idea (God said 1 day to him is of a thousand years to man) and if you are not affected by time you are not bound by any of its effects. You are eternal. You can still do what ever. In order to be eternal time cannot affect you.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

What makes me think that it has an end? Well we have the big rip theory and the big crunch theory. We have the theory where things continue but if all scientific laws are still present everything freezes. Also when you say pull it back together again that is the infinite big bang theory which relates with the big crunch theory. Like I said if all laws are present it cant happen. There is no way to know what form the matter took previous to the big bang. I could have been something we can't even begin to imagine.Something you cant imagine? Like an eternal being or God? The big bang may have been a one time event that was triggered by some strange event in an unknown dimension. It's all a big mystery, and will most likely stay that way. All I know is that if something had to exist eternally I think it's far more likely that something simple like matter did than a powerful intelligent being.What makes matter non-complex? What makes a God non-simple? The fact that earth was made by collisions is what leads me to believe that it is not intelligently designed. It seems like a strange and incredibly inefficient way to create something. If I were creating a universe I would just make Earth appear fully intact.Make the earth fully intact? Like God did? I find it a bit funny that your perfect vision of the universe is what God supposedly did. Collisions a weird way? We will never know the purpose will we?Can I see some proof of your time theory? Because I am not understanding it. Can you time something that has no beginning and has no end?  Being eternal doesn't mean time doesn't affect you, it just means you've been around forever, which I admit is a hard concept to grasp and gives me a headache just thinking about it. The concept of eternity is mind boggling.And if this gives you a headache then according to your reasoning intelligent design will be impossible to understand.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

What makes me think that it has an end? Well we have the big rip theory and the big crunch theory. We have the theory where things continue but if all scientific laws are still present everything freezes.Just because it freezes doesn't mean it ends. It's still there.-------------------------------------------- Also when you say pull it back together again that is the infinite big bang theory which relates with the big crunch theory. Like I said if all laws are present it cant happen.I'm just throwing ideas out there. Scientists are discovering new things all the time. They didn't uncover the elusive Higgs Boson particle until just last year. They still haven't figured out exactly how dark matter and dark energy work. My hypothesis that matter has always existed isn't contingent on a big crunch, I'm just brainstorming. -------------------------------------------- Something you cant imagine? Like an eternal being or God?Sure it's a possibility, but I find it highly unlikely, and until some kind of evidence is discovered to tell us what existed before the big bang I'm content with saying I don't know.-------------------------------------------- What makes matter non-complex? There isn't much to it. It's all just different combinations of very simple elements.-------------------------------------------- What makes a God non-simple?Consciousness, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence. I don't see how something that powerful could be simple. -------------------------------------------- Make the earth fully intact? Like God did? I find it a bit funny that your perfect vision of the universe is what God supposedly did. That's because the people who made up the stories in the Bible also thought it would make more sense to make a fully intact planet then to make one by smashing stuff together.-------------------------------------------- Can I see some proof of your time theory? Because I am not understanding it.I'm not sure how I can provide proof of timelessness since I can't stop time, but based on what time is its not hard to extrapolate what timelessness would be like. "Time is a dimension in which events can be ordered from the past through the present into the future, and also the measure of durations of events and the intervals between them." So timelessness would be the opposite, a lack of ordered events with no past or future. With no past or future things can't change. In other words, they would be frozen. I'm not sure I can explain it any clearer than I already have. Sorry-------------------------------------------- Can you time something that has no beginning and has no end?Yes, if I start a clock that never stops it is tracking time. Just because it continues to do it forever doesn't mean it doesn't track time. -------------------------------------------- And if this gives you a headache then according to your reasoning intelligent design will be impossible to understand.I think that's the first time I've ever heard you insult someone : (
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

No no no buddy thats not an insult. I am saying that if this gives you a headache, as it does many, intelligent design will be outside of our level of understanding. This I only picked up by your words. Of course you are a smart person. I am just saying that in a general sense. My bad. Terrible wording. Now everything else you mentioned seemed to be more of a day by day possibility thing. I also think that the people who wrote the bible had no idea that earth could be made by mass collisions.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Atheism

I am so sure he isn't I won't waste my time explaining why. If you feel the need so much to prove to everyone that God does exist you're obviously pretty unsure of yourself and are hoping to convince yourself that you're right. Well I know I am right and need not prove it!
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

Ha! Look at my previous ignorance.. Oh how people change XD
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

The reason theists seek new believers is because we all want as many people as possible to be saved from their sin... not to convince ourselves.
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Atheism

and why would an all powerful being need to create sin in the first place?
Debate: Does God exist?
Side: Theism

The Truth is God.If you know The Truth doesn't exist, I know you are wrong!To say, "It is truth that there is no truth and I know it!"Is a self defeating statement.