azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

That you oversimplified does not negate the consequential construction of a false dichotomy. My point was that you have created a realm in which the only comparable standard for rationality is between theism and strong atheism, with no allowance for the merit of the non-assumptive nature of non-belief (e.g. agnosticism, soft atheism). You falsely conflate my refutation of your analysis surrounding knowledge with my views on rationality. Knowledge was never my premise. I was merely responding and bringing your statements to their natural conclusion of contradiction and fallacy. I never once stated that rational means correct, and in fact a significant part of my analysis that you did not even address was grounded in the very definition you are providing of rationality being defined by logic and reasoning. In short, my point was that science is rational because it pursues a course of logical analysis whereas religion pursues a course of substituting assumption where knowledge does not yet exist (or even with total disregard to knowledge that does exist). Science and religion are both fallible, but science is significantly less fallible because it engages with a process of logic and reason whereas religion engages emotion.Lacking capacity and/or motivation to pursue logical processes does not by default make a conclusion reached outside of logic and reason a rational one. In the absence of knowledge substituting assumption is not rational so much as it is emotional; most people do not do well when confronted by the unknown and feel a need to explain it by whatever means necessary. Regarding afterlife Belief in afterlife is not assumed for the sake of being able to reason, it is assumed for the sake of avoiding reasoning and facing the uncertain or unknown. There is no proof at all, sensory or memory-based, that indicates that an afterlife is a part of reality. Regarding creationsism/ID. This is not an especially relevant distinction in the context of my refutation. My point applies to both equally. Your only counter to my turn on Occam’s Razor is a fallacious retort that God does not need a cause because he is the cause. This absolutely does not address that fact that God (a something) came from nowhere (nothing). It is the same problem, just with a fancy little bit of circular reasoning to circumvent its obvious flaw. What you claim can in no way be substantiated and it is a wholly unfounded assumption.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

I suppose we'll just simply have to disagree entirely on this; your reasoning isn't flawed, you just have a completely different perspective than I do. I don't see any benefit to continually going back and forth on this matter; I've made my statements and I stand by them.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

I WORSHIP LORD SATAN AND GODDESS KISHKI :D WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhttp://kishkizism.wordpress.com/
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

When did Kindergarten get out? Why don't you go get your color book and crayons and draw us a nice picture.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

For someone who worships God, you suuure are a dick and I do not mean the appendage, though your personality smells of a filthy one.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

I thought what I said was very nice. You have the potty mouth not me. Look in the mirror.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

Don't play dumb. You were obviously insulting him by calling him a child, but we both know that, so there's no point in discussing it.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

I do not use profanity...but when someone is acting like a child...then call them out. Why do people need to use profanity? This is a debate site...and usually the ones who do this are kids...who just crash the site to disrupt it.Is it an insult to call someone out on language unbecoming to a debate?
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

What he said was perfect for this debate. The fuck you blabbin about?
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

When people use profanity it discredits themselves. It lowers what they say to be nothing but blabber....no substance at all.And one of the rules is.......NO SWEARING.Or can't you read? Either that or you are just here to disrupt and derail the topic that you can't debate?
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

I WORSHIP LORD SATAN AND GODDESS KISHKI :D WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOThis was his statement. Where the fuck do you see profanity in his statement?Apparently you are the one who can not read.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

But you certainly feel the need to swear dont' you?The statement in the way it was said...was childish.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

They are just sentence enhancers, so I don't see the fucking problem. He was just happy to proclaim his love for his religion. Is happiness childish?
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

Sentence enhancers? LMAO The fact is you have a potty mouth which takes away from anything constructive you could ever say. Is happiness childish? Depends on what the action is...that expresses it.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

ELOHEL! If I wasn't wearing a beanie with a yellow dog motif, then i would take you more seriously.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

The maturity level with which you post is unbelievable. You have this style because you don't have content.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

The levels of all my skills, are unbelievable, but thanks anyway.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

I can't believe I'm siding with churchmouse on this, but come on- the overwhelming majority of satanism is not legitimate satan worship by any means and exists specifically to troll religious individuals. There are exceptions, but the tenor of the original post makes it pretty obvious that it is not one of said exceptions. It is quite obviously an inflammatory post intended to offend those of a religious mind, particularly those of Christian faith- it is worse than a personified insult because it's a direct attack against a mass of people, posted prominently in a debate that would obviously draw many of them to it. It's worse for the same reason that genocide is worse than homicide, much as I hate to make such an extreme comparison. If churchmouse is guilty of anything here, it is feeding a troll, as we've all been known to do at times.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

Yeeeeah...all of that is useless and doesn't justify churchmouse's trolling.And it's obvious that prodigee was trolling, but that doesn't mean that churchmouse has to troll him to. "Oh, he's just a troll, so it's not trolling if someone trolls him.", is what your excerpt looks like to me...churchmouse is guilty of trolling as well. Case closed.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

Rather a dick move to bitch at the one trolling the troll while ignoring the original troll, isn't it?
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

Well I was just trolling anyway lol. Someone else planted the bait, but I stole the catch. x)
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

Fair enough :P It's not as if I can claim to be completely above a little trolling myself!
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

The belief in God can be reasonably disputed as being rational. Religion, however, as a whole is not rational as its multiple forms contradict one another. But if one where to look at the various types of religion and cut off the least rational types that would leave one type of theism, which once filtered again could be seen as rational from a theological standpoint. The main issue with religion as opposed to just the philosophical notion of God is that its strength is also its weakness - religions usually show a viewpoint of involved gods or God which usually means the intervention into our realm. The strength of this is that it helps to convince those who witness it that their God is real. However this leaves open the negative - the ability to disprove those events,and pick apart that belief system. So it would have to be a decently strong piece of theology.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

You cannot isolate religion into a singular theism, and to premise an argument on an impossible hypothesis is utterly meaningless. The conception of an involved deity or deities is not a strength in defense of its rationality. An interpretation of events as divine intervention is not evidence of divine intervention. There can be no "decently strong piece of theology" because it is all based on fallible assumption.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

That's like saying that you cannot argue for a particular type of government in a debate about governments so I'd hardly call it an impossible hypothesis.And fallible theories can then be argued for and against appropriately, using the limits of current science, philosophy and historical research. In fact the idea of an involved God makes it more rational as if it is true it becomes possible to definitively prove, as opposed to the probability element of just the philosophical evidence.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

Not really. Your argument as I understood it was that by filtering out the nonsense and less defensible stances of religion one could create a rational form of religion. That is like saying that by filtering out the problematic aspects of all types of government one can create a functional form of government. Neither is useful because neither is a remote approximation to reality. There is no religious belief that filters out the indefensible, and I would argue that any attempt to do so would ultimately negate religion as being rational.An involved deity cannot be definitively proven. No act or occurrence can be conclusively or even suggestively linked to any deity through any course of logic; if it could it would already have been done. The notion of an involved deity is hardly new, and claims of divine intervention are as old as the debate we are having now... yet that intervention has never been proven.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

Yes that is what i'm saying, and that does seem very realistic. The way we morph our governments over time makes them more effective. Unless you want to say that Athenian democracy would be just as effective today than our current models.Why can't it be definitively proven?. When a deity moves into the physical realm it becomes an observable and testable event.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

There is little to suggest that our governments are actually more effective, particular as there is no standard point for assessing effectiveness between governments across cultures across massive spans of time. I think it is safe to say, however, that Athenian democracy was probably more effective than Somalian government (if not American republicanism). Similarly to government, I do not think religion today is much if at all better than religion before. And if it is, I would contend that this is a consequence of secular moderation and external pressures rather than of religion itself. If anything, religion has most consistently counteracted development and change.An involved deity does not become physical themselves, but influences events in the physical realm. Because such events cannot be proven to any degree to be causally connected to any deity, an involved deity is not evidential proof of religion.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

The reliability of a religion is dependent upon two main categories.The first is the role model(s) that represents the religion and who according to the effectiveness of his morals and actions has the credibility to be the representative of that religion.The second is the moral argument. This is due to the fact that it is unnatural for a representative or prophet who abides by morals or whose morals are innate in him to deceive people into worshiping God. And further than that, the human being has a built in characteristic to accept good and reject evil from the first day he is born. And so religion reinforces that mechanism of choosing good rather than evil. Any other categories like miracles of Moses or Jesus peace be upon them or the miracles of the Quran are there to to support the moral and prophecy arguments.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

it is very rational to believe a magic man in the sky...............................
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

Yes, it is very rational. If you think about it honestly, If there is no God, then how do we know anything? We don't. Everything could just be an illusion. You could have dreamed up everything that we know. You say it's not true? Prove it. And if this world is just an illusion then why are there laws of physics? Why does gravity always seem to work? But, then again, this argument I just made could just be nonsense, imagined as a logical question...
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

Religion can be rational if someone who believes takes everything in moderation.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

It is rational to be afraid of death, as it is in our natural programming to want to live. It is also rational to seek the truth. What is irrational, is accepting something lamentably not true, because you cannot think of a suitable answer for the question. What is life, what happens after death, why are we alive?  It is rational to disagree with others. It is not rational to fight to the death for your beliefs, and encourage others to do the same. It is not rational either, to accept one ridiculous answer and lead your life by it, and yet turn your back to a similar answer, profetised by a secondary religion.What's more, it is irrational to ignore the facts that are staring you in the face which are disproving your beliefs ( or at least some of them) and to continue fighting for something which has been proven ( or at least in part) not to be true.^ Many aspects of religion are irrational.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

What is irrational, is accepting something lamentably not true, because you cannot think of a suitable answer for the question. What is life, what happens after death, why are we alive?Depends on who the person is. If this is like an uneducated family in China or Africa it's completely rational. A deity of some sort or belief in reincarnation is okay for them.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

I just added only in advanced countries...
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

A lack of education does not make a religious belief rational, it just makes it less unreasonable.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

Actually it does. From the logical viewpoints they see this as something inherently true. It's rational to them. All logic isn't objective. To them it makes perfect sense.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

If the only standard for something to be rational is that it makes sense to someone then rationality as a concept becomes utterly meaningless. Furthermore, if that is the standard then any person who believes in a deity or reincarnation is being rational regardless of what context they are situated within.No human thought can be purely objective, as we are all influenced by feelings and opinions that we hold. However, the very purpose of logic is to mitigate this subjectivity through a particular system of principles and criteria for assessing the validity of inference and demonstration. Logic is the science of formal reasoning, and rationality is distinguished as a consequence not of its inherent objectivity but for its mitigation of subjectivity to the greatest extent possible. Just because someone thinks something that does not make it rational, because rationality requires a system of procedures for analysis and deduction.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

There is a difference between uneducated people and people who lack common sense.Education is vital, but but you do not have to be Einstein to see the unseen.People with true wisdom can see God and the purpose of creation without having to tackle the scientific details which never contradict with the fact that God exists.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

I am not afraid of death...I would like to live a long life however. I know my eternal life will start after I die. I would think someone who is unsure about what happens after death...would be afraid.You talk about answers to questions. Why since you say the believer knows nothing....don't you explain why we are here and how we got here. What was the first cause? It is rational to fight to the death for something you believe in. I would fight for Christ and my family. It is rational to encourage others to do good, the right thing. The facts? Why don't you share the facts with us all.What was the first cause?And address cause and effect...coming from the science angle of it. Did a big explosion happen? If it did...what caused the explosion and why? How do you account that evolution formed the universe in perfect harmony...the eye, the egg, life on our planet and on no other?Why is being in an intelligent creator so irrational..if you can not explain anything either?
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: No Religion is Not

I would think someone who is unsure about what happens after death...would be afraid.I do not believe in life after death. In fact, I am quite convinced that there is no life after death. This does not frighten me. I am reconciled with my own mortality and universal insignificance. To me, escaping into a belief in the afterlife to avoid confronting those realities cheapens the life we know we have. It is rational to fight to the death for something you believe in. I would fight for Christ and my family. It is rational to encourage others to do good, the right thing.It is not rational at all to fight to the death if one appreciates the finality of death. Of course, believing in an afterlife without any actual evidence to support that belief should make death insignificant. But a belief that fighting to the death is rational when premised upon an irrational belief is itself irrational.And please, who are you to say you actually know what is "good" or "right"? Does it never strike you how incredibly egotistical that is, to think that you have the correct view on life, the universe, and everything and everyone else is just flat out wrong. Especially when you cannot prove it at all. Why since you say the believer knows nothing....don't you explain why we are here and how we got here. What was the first cause? [...] And address cause and effect...coming from the science angle of it. Did a big explosion happen? If it did...what caused the explosion and why?I will not pretend to understand complex scientific theories on the origins of life and existence, nor will I attempt to claim that science is even capable of explaining all of that yet. However, I refuse to substitute an arbitrary set of beliefs for knowledge we do not yet have. Ultimately a belief in god does not answer the question of where existence came from anyways; it only changes the point of arbitration to the consideration of where god came from. How do you account that evolution formed the universe in perfect harmony...the eye, the egg, life on our planet and on no other?The universe functions as a complex system because it has had billions of years to develop from the simplest causes to the more intricate effects. Given that the human life span has never exceeded much more than a century, obviously it is a challenge for most people to conceive of how much complexity natural cause and effect can generate. Creationism is a way of sidestepping the frequent human inability to grasp the possibility of complex evolution. Basically, since we cannot fully understand or appreciate it, let's invent a deity who can. The existence of some deity capable of accounting for the complexity of the universe and creating it in one go makes far less sense, particularly as it necessitates the creation of such an intelligence. If you subscribe to a creationism where god laid the seeds and let things develop from there... well, then, your own reasoning defeats itself since clearly cause can lead to complex effect.
Debate: Is Religion a Rational Belief to Have?
Side: Yes Religion is/Mixed/Other

But you don't know for a fact that there is no life after death. I would think that would make you afraid. Because if there is....say if Christ said was true...then who loses out? What convinces you that there is no life after death? Gee...that means no consequences so what reason would it be to be kind and do nice to people? Who cares. And if there is no eternal punishment, no consequences...then it should not matter what we do...murder, rape....no incentive to be good. What realities are bad to confront? If you don't think there is an after life...you shouldnt be afraid to confront anything in life, even the bad stuff...who cares. You end up in dust anyway, right? it is rational to fight for the death in something you believe in..especially if you believe in an after life. If there is one our existence matters, it means something. If there isn't one...as I said who cares. If one believes in an afterlife where consequences in life matters...you better believe it matters how one lives. What is good and right? Well rape is bad. ARe you saying its good? What is good about rape? How many people think rape is good? Do you think someone should be punished for rape?You don't understand complexed science...no one does totally. There is more unexplainable than explainable. That does not mean there was not a first cause....why are we here and who put us here? I don't have enough faith to believe it was by random chance. I don't understand the first thing about scientific theories..but I know they can't answer the big questions in life...the big ones we all wonder about. And I don't think any mathamatician would say....that it all statistically could have happened the way it did.