azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

Every gun event you go to has NRA members collecting funds from private citizens as funding for the NRA.and how do they do that? by fear mongering about how the "liberals" are coming for their guns.... the very same talking points you are bring here today.The NRA has no power to sell guns without liberals trying to take away the ability to buy them.The NRA has no power to sell guns without liberals trying to take away the ability to buy them.so you admit that the NRA uses fear mongering to sell more guns.... gtkAnd stupid anti gun people let them by doing everything the NRA claims liberals want to do to go after guns.if that were true you wouldn't have any guns by now.I have only ever been talking about taking away the right to purchase guns.do you own a car? do you feel the laws about owning a car are somehow taking away your right to own a car?i don't see how it should be easier to rent a gun that it is to rent a car.... do you?because there are hundreds of shooting ranges that agree with me.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

and how do they do that? by fear mongering about how the "liberals" are coming for their guns.... the very same talking points you are bring here today.First, the only one using talking points is you. I specifically said I am not afraid of the liberals coming after the guns I already own.Second, I live in California, so the fear mongering argument won't work. Every single year in California the anti gun people try to pass a law restricting gun rights. Every. Single. Year. The NRA gets money because of that, not fear mongering.so you admit that the NRA uses fear mongering to sell more guns.... gtkI have only seen fact spreading since I live with new gun laws every year.if that were true you wouldn't have any guns by now.The NRA is stopping you from passing all the laws you want. The NRA says liberals will try to pass a law banning certain guns, and liberals propose a law to start banning those guns. You are the one repeating the liberals will literally take our guns talking point again.do you feel the laws about owning a car are somehow taking away your right to own a car?Do you live in a state where minivans are illegal, but compact cars are legal? Do you live in a state where there is a list of the make and model of car that you are allowed to purchase? Do you live in a state where pickup trucks are legal as long as you don't have a bed liner? Those are the kind of restrictions seen with California, so your analogy is worthless. If you had those restrictions on cars would you think that your right to own cars was being limited? don't see how it should be easier to rent a gun that it is to rent a car.... do you?Both are deadly weapons. When you rent a car you can take it anywhere. When you rent a gun you can only use it at the range. When you rent a gun they make you agree to the safety rules. Renting a car doesn't require that. Renting a car requires insurance, and guns don't. So, it isn't really that much harder to rent a car, and the slight inconvenience of showing you having insurance is offset by being able to take the car anywhere. I am not sure what you're talking about here.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

The NRA gets money because of that, not fear mongering.you clearly do not understand the NRA business model.it is precisely that kind of fear mongering that "extracts" revenue from the suckers who are on their mailing list.this "plan" was leaked some time ago.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

The NRA in California doesn't have to do that. I would love to see the leaked plan. But, in California they don't need a plan to collect money. Any response to my argument? I would say to the rest of my argument, but you didn't really respond to anything so far.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

I would love to see the leaked plan. no you wouldn't...From 2004 to 2010, the group’s revenue from fundraising -- including gifts from gun makers who benefit from its political activism -- grew twice as fast as its income from members’ dues, according to NRA tax returns. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-12-29/nra-raises-200-million-as-gun-lobby-toasters-burn-logo-on-bread
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

I would love to see the leaked plan. no you wouldn't....The National Rifle Association’s fundraising pace continues to quicken amid fears of new restrictions on firearms, with the gun lobby’s political action committee posting its best single month of fundraising in more than a decade.Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/03/nra-fundraising-is-best-in-decade-89168.html#ixzz3duO2LW00
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

"Congressional Democrats and President Barack Obama have vowed to overhaul the nation’s gun-control laws, after a shooting in Connecticut left 26 children dead."Sorry, not fear mongering. The anti gun people said they wanted to act. How is that fear mongering?
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

overhaul the nation’s gun-control lawsall the things they wanted to do have WIDE public support, even among NRA members.what are you afraid of?
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

The anti gun liberals who only stick to talking points like you. What happens when hold down the trigger on a semi-auto gun? Too many people don't know the answer to that question and still think they have enough information to make laws against guns.The other thing I am afraid of is a mandatory background check. Every new gun purchased in America goes through a mandatory background check, yet the anti gun people want unspecified background checks.I am afraid of people who don't know what they are talking about making rules.You didn't answer how there is fear mongering by the way.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

What happens when hold down the trigger on a semi-auto gun?is this an exam? when i answer you question correctly, what will be the NEXT test i have to pass... and how many more tests will it take to satisfy you?this is a slippery slope that i'm not willing to indulge... if you have 'fear's about the knowledge of policy makers, then EDUCATE them instead of talking down to them.this fear of yours is not my problem.Every new gun purchased in America goes through a mandatory background checkthis is not true. MAKING this true is one of the things that enjoy WIDE support among Americans, including NRA membership.when the number of guns manufactured out strips the number of background checks performed..... by several orders of magnitude... then there is a leak in the system somewhere.I am afraid of people who don't know what they are talking about making rules.welcome to representative democracy.there are other forms of governance you can live under... but you'll have to move.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

is this an exam? when i answer you question correctly, what will be the NEXT test i have to pass... and how many more tests will it take to satisfy you?I have heard the wrong answer from your group enough times. If you answer that one question right, I would consider what you have to say.this is a slippery slope that i'm not willing to indulge... if you have 'fear's about the knowledge of policy makers, then EDUCATE them instead of talking down to them.How am I supposed to educate them? Giving money to the largest citizen represented lobby is bad.this fear of yours is not my problem.The stupid law you want is not my problem. You can't have it.this is not true.Then, you are misinformed. It looks like you are nothing but liberal talking points. It is true, for new guns. The only problem is with used guns.MAKING this true is one of the things that enjoy WIDE support among Americans, including NRA membership.So, why can't congress pass a law that ONLY did this?when the number of guns manufactured out strips the number of background checks performed..... by several orders of magnitude... then there is a leak in the system somewhere.I agree, and since that isn't happening we are in good shape. The only time the number of guns outnumber the number of background checks is when the Obama administration ships guns to Mexico.welcome to representative democracy.How is that supposed to make my position any less valid?there are other forms of governance you can live under... but you'll have to move.Doesn't look like it to me hippy. :)
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

If you answer that one question right, I would consider what you have to say.and i've heard that from your group enough times... to know better than to believe you.there will always be a "but you don't know X" as your rationale for not having to lift a finger to help.it's ok, we've come to expect little from you as it stands.btw, you might want to consider that liberals own guns too.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

How many anti gun liberals own guns though? What's your point?Why is it not bad that people who don't know what semi-auto means are able to determine that semi-auto guns need to be banned?there will always be a "but you don't know X" as your rationale for not having to lift a finger to help.What the hell are you even talking about? Help what? The reason I want you to answer the question is because it is vital to discussing laws against those guns.By the way, I love the telling other people they are dick for not listening to you while simultaneously being high and mighty about not listening to them strategy. It totally beats the only use talking points while complaining that real arguments are just talking points strategy that you were using.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

I would love to see the leaked plan.no you wouldn't...Conservative website The Daily Caller published in its entirety an over-the-top fundraising pitch from National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre that suggested the only way to save America is to buy an NRA membership.http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/03/03/ daily-caller-publishes-nras-paranoid-fundraisin/198314
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

Well, guns are. Every country in the world has unstable people. Not every country in the world allows such easy access to guns. I have never held a gun and I don't any of my friends or family have either. It must seem surreal to an USAian that such countries can exist but yes it is true.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

That says nothing to address the number of guns already in the US. Do you believe that Americans can be persuaded to relinquish their guns?
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

Nope. But I don't believe crazy people can be persuaded to stop being doing crazy things either. Seems there is no answer - you're screwed!
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

You should try it some time, within a safe and controlled environment of course. It's quite fun.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

if you would like to start comparing numbers, how about comparing the number firearms with the number of firearm related wounds/deaths on a per country basis.should you actually DO that math, it becomes undeniable that the US has a problem with gun violence that directly relates to the number of firearms (especially hand guns).
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

While I definitely agree with you that the factors leading to the high rate of gun violent do not include gun ownership, and that the anti-gun crowd seriously lack evidence to back up such claims, pointing to limited statistics from one city does not do much to support your case. In order to back up a claim regarding the entire nation, one would need national statistics.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

national statistics are PROHIBITED by law put into place by NRA lobbying on behalf of the gun manufacturers and dealers.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

{national statistics are PROHIBITED by law put into place by NRA lobbying on behalf of the gun manufacturers and dealers.}Uh...link please.Oh, BTW, try this one on national crime statistics (published by the DOJ) on Firearm Violence, 1993-2011. This must be the one the NRA prevented from being published, along with all of the others.Just curious WHERE do you get your info?
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

{national statistics are PROHIBITED by law put into place by NRA lobbying on behalf of the gun manufacturers and dealers.}Do you have a reply to my previous reply asking for a link to your assertion and asking where you got your misinformation from? If not, you lose.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

The CDC isn't allowed to pursue many kinds of gun research due to the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association. Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1#ixzz3duBB57ic
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

Those statistics would all be worthless. You want the CDC to research if having guns around causes gun violence. What is the point? Guns have to be around for gun violence. Knives have to be around for knife violence. Cars have to be around for car violence. What would you be trying to prove?
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

{pointing to limited statistics from one city does not do much to support your case.}OK Let's look a West Oakland...West Oakland,Violent Crimes 19.94 per 1,000For the state of CA it's 4.02 per 1,000National Median is 3.8My chances of becoming a victim in West Oakland in Oakland 1 in 50 in California 1 in 249 West Oakland Property Crime 63.46 per 1,000For the state it's 26.58 per 1,000National Median is 27.3Crimes Per Square MileWest Oakland, 434 per square mileCalifornia, 89 per square mileNational Median, 37.9 per square mileWant more? Google it. This has nothing to do with the NRA.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

So I tell you that looking at limited statistics from one city does not do much, and your take away is to give me limited statistics from another city.Pointing to West Oakland and trying to make a greater point about the nature of gun crime will not work. Same with Chicago. A claim about a national trend requires national statistics.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

I think generalizing gun legislation based on national statistics would be a terrible idea.Each city needs legislation catered to its issues.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

yeah yeah yeah... chicago, chicago, chicagothat's all you guys ever talk about.and its been SHOWN to you why chicago is a mess, but you refuse to listen.i'm over it.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

{yeah yeah yeah... chicago, chicago, chicago}yeah yeah yeah... Oakland, Oakland, OaklandOK Let's look a West Oakland...West Oakland,Violent Crimes 19.94 per 1,000For the state of CA it's 4.02 per 1,000National Median is 3.8My chances of becoming a victim in West Oakland in Oakland 1 in 50 in California 1 in 249 West Oakland Property Crime 63.46 per 1,000For the state it's 26.58 per 1,000National Median is 27.3Crimes Per Square MileWest Oakland, 434 per square mileCalifornia, 89 per square mileNational Median, 37.9 per square mileWant more? Google it. This has nothing to do with the NRA.Then we can look a South Central L.A., New Orleans, Miami, Cleveland, etc.{and its been SHOWN to you why chicago is a mess, but you refuse to listen.}You're right. It has been SHOWN. It's called criminality. You can excuse that behavior, I won't.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

It's called criminality. You can excuse that behavior, I won't.what causes criminality?is it guns?
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

{what causes criminality? is it guns?}Nope, not guns. It's the criminals that use them to kill others, especially the innocent.what causes criminality? is it bows and arrows?what causes criminality? is it cross bows?what causes criminality? is it catapults?what causes criminality? is it rocks?Exactly how many NRA members/legitimate gun owners have been involved in drive-by shootings? Drug sales related killings?How many Smith & Wesson owners have killed Colt owners because they thought such ownership was an insult, just as when the wrong colors are worn in the wrong neighborhood?Those gangstas have low I.Q.s, are narcissistic and too lazy to put forth any effort to work or improve themselves by getting and education. They're drop-outs with little ambition but to rise up in the drug/murder world and hurt their own people.This was an introduction to Criminality 101. The NRA is not responsible for their plight; they are.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

good, we can agree that guns do not cause crime.but your attempt to identify what DOES cause crime seems to be based on the following which i have gleaned from your manifesto...they thought [fill in the blank] was an insultthe wrong colors are worn in the wrong neighborhoodhave low I.Q.sare narcissistictoo lazyThey're drop-outswith little ambition[they want to] hurt their own peoplethat' is quite a collection of racists coded language.are you aware of how racist that appears?are you, in fact, a racist?
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

And yet while gun sales continue to clime and the number of guns in this country continue to clime, gun violence is half of what it was approximately 30 years ago.Your relation is correlation, not causation.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

ALL crime is down by about half what it was 30yrs ago... this does not change the fact that you are an order of magnitude more likely to be shot in the US than in the other "civilized", first world, countries, where there are far fewer guns.the gun sales, due to NRA fear mongering, are mostly going to ppl who already have guns.... that's the only way they can continue to make their profits.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

ALL crime is down by about half what it was 30yrs ago... this does not change the fact that you are an order of magnitude more likely to be shot in the US than in the other "civilized", first world, countries, where there are far fewer guns.That is most certainly true, and it is indeed a problem. However, you implied that the increased number of guns directly causes an increase in the number of gun related crimes. If that were so, it would be born out by the increased number of guns bought in this country. Instead, gun crime (indeed, as you said, all crime) is going down, which would imply that the relationship is not as direct as you implied.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

it may still be as direct as i've implied, because the increase in sales, as i said before, mainly went to ppl who already had guns.so there are not as many new ppl with guns as the increase in sales would suggest.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

But the implication isn't that there are more people with guns. The implication was simply that the number of guns in this country directly relates to the number of gun crimes. As you said, "if you would like to start comparing numbers, how about comparing the number firearms with the number of firearm related wounds/deaths on a per country basis."You did not say "the number of gun owners", you said "the number of firearms".
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

allow me to restate then...."the number of gun owners" as well as "the number of firearms"
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

this does not change the fact that you are an order of magnitude more likely to be shot in the US than in the other "civilized" What is the point of trading away getting shot with dying? If you are less likely to die or get hurt, who cares what the thing is that hurts you in the rare cases?
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

What is the point of trading away getting shot with dying? you are the only one making that claim... there is not a shred of evidence to back it up.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

Your argument is that as long as gun violence goes down it is ok to replace the gun violence with more knife violence. I don't understand that argument.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

the reason you don't understand is because you are arguing with yourself.i've never made that argument, you just made that up out of whole cloth.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

No, that is exactly what you said. "I don't care that people are less likely to get hurt, as long as those people get hurt by bullets I am upset." Therefore, you would like the crime rate to go up if you can eliminate gun violence. It doesn't make sense.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

Your talking about criminals using guns as part of their crimes and gang violence using guns. My point, which you gave failed to address, is the slaughter of innocents by unstable people with guns. The sort of tragedy that has occurred again in Charleston SC. The story that keeps on repeating month after month in cities across America. Your making a distraction with your numbers, which have nothing to do with disturbed people having access to guns.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

Your talking about criminals using guns as part of their crimes and gang violence using guns. rather than telling me what i'm talking about, why not make your case for what you would like see happen regarding gun violence in America?its a LOT easier to cast stones at innovators, than it is to actually innovate and make changes which matter to ppls lives....what i am talking about, should you care to listen, is there are a number of things we can do as a society to improve the situation w.r.t. gun violence.none of which involve denying anyone the right to own a gun... but ALL of which mean that you will need to relax your collective sphincters and allows some discussion on the subject.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: No, They do not work today

but ALL of which mean that you will need to relax your collective sphincterSo now you need to tell me what to do with my ass. That's what you have?PatheticI have already explained the core problem in my first post. Perhaps you should read that, then try to come up with a more germane innovation than dealing with anal constriction.
Debate: Can more Gun laws prevent Gun violence
Side: Yes, low info voters sux

I have already explained the core problem in my first post.that's not true.but there is this bit, so maybe you are on to something..."The data suggest that Republicans own guns more than two-to-one over Democrats."what you have ACTUALLY done is shown that you are not serious about doing anything to affect the problem.