azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

"You said that we could sove the problem by denying some persons their rights and I reminded you why we can't do that."True but irrelevant to my point. What I am arguing is that they can't be considered persons like you and I. We are fundamentally different from them - we are individuals, they are not. Now this is the point at which we disagree. You simply assert that 'we are in fact no different'. I however ask you to respond the argument I proposed. Allow me to draw it out as clearly as I can:"The fetus is ina very real sense a part of the mother, given that it gets all nutrition and oxygen from the mother."This is the first premise for my argument. My second premise is unsaid but goes along the line of"Any person who has been born doesn't rely on the mother in this way"With a small bit of logical rewriting, and a third premise ('any two things that differ in fundamental aspects are of different kinds'), I can arrive at my conclusion - that we are in fact are fundamentally different. Now this conclusion works a premise for the larger argument, that you did respond to. Your response however is fully without force, if you don't attack the argument that I am proposing at this level.Anyway, whether this difference is enough to reject the idea of age discrimination is a debate that I am not going to take now. All I want to show is that, what you are proposing is not a water proof argument pro life: You have to also argue that the fundamental difference between us and them is negligible.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

I don't dispute the fact that a person in their fetal stage of their life is significantly different than most (if not all) persons who are in a much later stage of their lives, growths and developments. You have to also argue that the fundamental difference between us and them is negligible.No. I Don't. The Constitution says that we are all equal. That means that our differences... no matter how obvious and or inconvienient - are not enough to support your claims that one group of persons has rights and the other group does not.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

I am challenging the usage of the term 'all'. If we agree that the difference between a person in their fetal stage and the rest of us is significant, then we can't disregard this difference without further investigation. What do you mean by 'all'?
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

People in a coma (like my wife was) are no less dependent upon others for survival than is a child in the womb. People are people be they 'dependent' people or not. We are all equally entitled to the protections of our laws and it's not contingent upon how dependent we are or not. The reason we can (in some cases) take a person off of life support and allow them to die is this. We all have the same right to our lives and to the protections of our laws. However, it doesn't come with an un-reasonable expectation that our lives must be maintained at all costs or extra-ordinary costs to others. A child in the womb is naturally dependent. Unless something has gone really wrong, their relationship with their mother is very ordinary. So, it is not unreasonable to expect the mother to allow the child to continue to live in that relationship.Conversly, a person in a coma, living on life support and at a great cost to others with little to no chance for survival or recovery can hardly be compared to the circumstances of a typical child in the womb. Does that help?
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

DUPLICATE
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

Well 'greater' is subjective. What's greater some could be lesser to others, like favorite movie or greatest actor, etc. but that aside my opinion is this.Gay people are sentient (usually) and have lived a life of seeing people gaining, and using rights. They may have friends who were rightfully married, then all of a sudden they go and try to, then get denied. So it's hypocrisy which is worse to me than destroying some cells.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

Destroying some cells..........I am afraid its a bit more then that buddy. Abortion is wiping out lives, and is not to be taken lightly, which I believe you have. If it wasn't for "some cells" you wouldn't be here, so it makes no sense for you to talk about it like that. Secondly, Hypocrisy doesn't make sense in this case. The people are not being hypocritical because they disagree with gay marriage. There is a difference between gay marriage and traditional marriage.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

Abortion is wiping out livesbefore 12 weeks, the fetus has no brain function. Making it technically brain dead, meaning it's not alive. If it wasn't for "some cells" you wouldn't be here, so it makes no sense for you to talk about it like that.If it wasn't for the semen that my father could have ejaculated before the date, or the ova that my mother could have dropped out of her system I also wouldn't be here to talk lightly about that, does that mean that masturbation and menstruation are wrong as well?Secondly, Hypocrisy doesn't make sense in this case.When you hear the American slogan, then see the ruling on gay marriage you think, "Well boy that's ironic.""Land of the free" and the protection of human rights claims that everyone is equal, yet gay people are not as equal as straight people?There is a difference between gay marriage and traditional marriage.There is a difference between black people, and white people, yet separate water fountains is not fair.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

"before 12 weeks, the fetus has no brain function. Making it technically brain dead, meaning it's not alive"It doesn't matter. It is going to be a life. Also, cells are considered living things, so the time they are aborted doesn't matter at all. Being brain dead doesn't mean anything here. There are many brain dead people in hospitals across the world. Do they not matter? They are alive, so being brain dead doesn't mean your not alive."There is a difference between black people, and white people, yet separate water fountains is not fair."Yes it Is wrong to have separate water fountains for blacks and whites. However an African American CANNOT change the color of their skin. Homosexuals can choose who they marry (in terms of gender) and choose who they want as a partner. So there is a big difference. No race can change their skin color, white or black. You can't use the "equal rights" point because it's not the same.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

It doesn't matter. It is going to be a life.Not if complications occur. Semen and Ova will one day become a life if they don't die from disuse. Also, cells are considered living things,Your hair and fingernails are made up of cells with no brain activity, does that mean you can't cut them?Being brain dead doesn't mean anything here.Actually it does, if a person is brain dead and being supported by machines their life is usually ended.Yes it Is wrong to have separate water fountains for blacks and whites. However an African American CANNOT change the color of their skin.So you're insinuating gay people can change their sexual orientation?Homosexuals can choose who they marry (in terms of gender) and choose who they want as a partner.Exactly, but they can't choose who they like therefore they should be allowed the same right as the people who also can't choose what they like but happen to like someone of the opposite sex.No race can change their skin color, white or black. You can't use the "equal rights" point because it's not the same.Gay people don't have the right to marry like straight people, it's exactly the same.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

"Not if complications occur. Semen and Ova will one day become a life if they don't die from disuse."Complications are natural, abortion is not. You can't control complications, you can control whether you get an abortion or not."Your hair and fingernails are made up of cells with no brain activity, does that mean you can't cut them?"No, fingernails and hair are made up of already dead cells and protein, as are the dead skin cells that flake off when you scratch. They are also a part of your own person, so you can do with them as you like. A Fetus however, is genetically different, and physically separated, like food in your mouth, or a leech on your skin, it is not a part of your person, you have no rights of control over it."Actually it does, if a person is brain dead and being supported by machines their life is usually ended."/Usually/ being the key word here. Their life is not necessarily ended, by your own admission."So you're insinuating gay people can change their sexual orientation?"I would venture to say so, but, even if I were wrong, and they can't change who they are attracted to, a homosexual CAN choose whether they marry or not, and they CAN choose, within the legally appropriate selection, who they marry."Exactly, but they can't choose who they like therefore they should be allowed the same right as the people who also can't choose what they like but happen to like someone of the opposite sex."Marriage is equally applied to everyone: Any Male can marry any female, and any female can marry any male. There is NO distinction in the law stating the two parties must be attracted to each other in a sexual manner. Attraction is irrelevant to the issue of marriage, as can be evidenced by the number of failing marriages and abusive behavior that is sometimes included with them, or by the many "loveless" marriages that exist and have existed. Lack of attraction is furthermore, also not viable grounds for divorce, which only further supports my point. Marriage is about procreation and childrearing, not spending your life with someone you're attracted to."Gay people don't have the right to marry like straight people, it's exactly the same."It's entirely different, as I just said. Straight people are no more permitted to marry people they are attracted to than homosexuals. The law is applied equally, attraction is not a part of it. Any male, hetero or homo, is permitted to marry any female, hetero or homo, and vice versus. There is no unfairness, because there is no distinction for attraction. Marriage is about creating a safe and stable environment for procreation and childrearing, not having sex.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

"Not if complications occur. Semen and Ova will one day become a life if they don't die from disuse."A unborn fetus is on its way to becoming a born human being. So when it is killed doesn't matter, just the fact that it is being killed is a problem. Also, sperm/semen are not in the process of turning into a life by themselves, they need other things, so it is okay if they die or are disused. The same goes for an ova."Your hair and fingernails are made up of cells with no brain activity, does that mean you can't cut them?"When i said that all cells are living things i was disputing your "some cells comment". I wasn't sayin it was bad to kill all cells. So yes you can cut your hair and nails."Actually it does, if a person is brain dead and being supported by machines their life is usually ended."But what about the people currently living that are brain dead. And by the way, yes these people are CURRENTLY ALIVE so how do you argue that. "So you're insinuating gay people can change their sexual orientation?"Yes i am. Many people have done it. This is how some people became bisexual, and there are people that have switched what gender they have been in a relationship willingly."Exactly, but they can't choose who they like therefore they should be allowed the same right as the people who also can't choose what they like but happen to like someone of the opposite sex."As i said before, they CAN choose."Gay people don't have the right to marry like straight people, it's exactly the same."It isn't the same because blacks have fought for equal rights because of their skin color (something they have no control over) where as gays choose to partake in homosexual acts such as gay marriage.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

Destroying some cells..........I am afraid its a bit more then that buddy.No, that's exactly what it is. It's not a person until later in the pregnancy. Conception is not the beginning of being a person. Abortion is wiping out lives, and is not to be taken lightly, which I believe you have. If it wasn't for "some cells" you wouldn't be here, so it makes no sense for you to talk about it like that.We operate on different definition of what makes something a person. For you, its egg fertilization. For me and Quocalimar (from what I can tell), it has to do with fetal sentience. The newly fertilized cell isn't much different from a sentience perspective than any other cell in the body, until much later in the pregnancy. It makes perfect sense for him to talk about it like that. Just because we're all dependent on the egg being fertilized doesn't mean we're limited in our ability to talk about it.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

I Get what you are saying. I am done then because we both have different views and theres nothing else to debate about it.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

I'm still waiting on ANYTHING in the way of proof that conciousness is required for personhood by our laws and or Constitution.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

It's a philosophical/scientific point that the brain is required to be a person. I never claimed that it was a law and/or in our constitution.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

It's a philosophical/scientific point that the brain is required to be a person. I never claimed that it was a law and/or in our constitution.You have yet to provide a scientific definition for the word person that would not include a child in the fetal stage of their life.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

You have yet to provide a scientific definition for the word person that would not include a child in the fetal stage of their life.Okay, for some reason the link, no matter how I format it, will not work. It is the wikipedia article "Beginning of human personhood", subsection "biological markers""at the first appearance of brain waves in higher brain (cerebral cortex) - 22-24 weeks of gestation (paralleling ′′higher brain death′′"
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

Your link is broken... and Wiki (while always an interesting source) is not a scientifically sound (peer reviewed) reference.A search of that phrase finds only FOUR pages with that definition and none of them are established scientific references.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

That's fine, I made sure they had a source. Hopefully this link works though:http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/anand/"Functional maturity of the cerebral cortex is suggested by fetal and a neonatal electroencephalographic patterns, studies of cerebral metabolism, and the behavioral development of neonates. First, intermittent electroencephalograpic bursts in both cerebral hemispheres are first seen at 20 weeks gestation; they become sustained at 22 weeks and bilaterally synchronous at 26 to 27 weeks."
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

And..... that document has nothing in it about personhood. Which is why the use of it as a supporting document in the Wiki article is not to be taken as a scientifically sound and credible definition for personhood.You are grabbing at straws.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

This was my original statement:It's a philosophical/scientific point that the brain is required to be a person.I don't know of a clear cut scientific definition for "personhood". I was posting evidence for my argument of the brain being a requirement for being a person. Namely, a minimal amount of sentience or brain development. My belief that who we are, our thoughts and our memories etc, is our brain, this is backed by evidence.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

So, you admit that yours is only a belief. A opinion. It is not a scientific fact.... and as a matter of fact, the legal definitions do not support your belifs / opinions on this. Got it!
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

It is not a scientific fact.... and as a matter of fact, the legal definitions do not support your belifs / opinions on this.Whether the legal definitions support my beliefs/opinions is irrelevant to the truth of the matter. My beliefs aren't simply beliefs due to my own wishful thinking. They have evidence to back them up, which is something that not a lot of people can claim, including yourself. A legal definition is not evidence in this case. As an example of what you sound like:Person A argues that marriage should be between two consenting adults.Person B argue that marriage should be between a man and a woman, not to mention the legal definition of marriage is between a man and a woman. Please provide evidence that the definition of marriage is between two consenting adults. The legal definition of marriage should be between two consenting adults. The legal definition of a person should at least require a brain. Why? Because without our brain, we do not exist.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

A legal definition is not evidence in this case. Lawmakers would completely disagree with that and at the end of the day, legalized abortion is an issue for lawmakers. You claim that a brain or brain activity should be required for personhood.... but it's not and I think for good reason. The main reason being that a child in the womb (brain activity or not) is the young of the parents who created them. This is especially significant in laws regarding IVF, patent laws (which BAN patents on human beings), paternity laws, etc.You are entitled to your opinions and you can even try to change the legal definitions... I'll be standing with your opposition.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

Lawmakers would completely disagree with that and at the end of the day, legalized abortion is an issue for lawmakers.Clearly they would, they are lawmakers after all. What I meant by my statement was that a legal definition does not dictate reality. The science behind the issue will help reveal to us the true nature of that reality though. A simple legal definition will not reveal it to us. The main reason being that a child in the womb (brain activity or not) is the young of the parents who created them. This is especially significant in laws regarding IVF, patent laws (which BAN patents on human beings), paternity laws, etc.But then we have issues where if a girl gets the morning after pill, which can prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus and therefore killing it, she can be tried for premeditated murder. This is ridiculous, when all shes done is killed a single cell. This single fertilized cell has barely more "awareness" or whatever you would call it, than any other single cell in our body. You are entitled to your opinions and you can even try to change the legal definitions...Mine are all backed by evidence. Yours just has a legal definition....
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

Mine are all backed by evidence. Yours just has a legal definition....My views are backed by science and the laws. My only problem is with one specific inconsistency in the laws (not science) which says if a stranger kills it, it's a murder but if the mother kills it, it's not.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

My views are backed by science and the laws.No, your view is certainly not backed by any credible evidence. You claim that they become a person at the moment of fertilization. What science demonstrates this? I have claimed that you need a brain in order to be a person. The scientific evidence supports this. what evidence supports this idea that something like you or I can exist without a brain? A legal definition is not evidence, it does not dictate reality.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

your view is certainly not backed by any credible evidence. You claim that they become a person at the moment of fertilization. What science demonstrates this?The science of observation. 1. The young of two cats in any stage of its development is a cat.2. The young of two dogs in any stage of its development is a dog. 3. The young of two human beings is also going to be a human beingThere is no scientific definition for personhood as personhood is a social and political construct. The closest thing in science that there is to personhood is member of the species and child in the womb has always been recognized in science as a member of their species.Going further, the legal definition for a natural person is simply a human being and or the body of a human being.There is no legal or scientific requirement for consciousness. You have already been shown that anencephalic children (children born without a brain) are legally recognized and treated as persons by our laws. They are entitled to the same Constitutional protections that we are.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

I don't even feel like retyping all of the stuff I've written before. I've already refuted all of this. Keep fighting for fertilized eggs to be recognized as people then. Hopefully one day, when a woman uses the morning after pill and prevents the egg from implanting in the uterus, maybe someone will call the police on her and she'll be locked up in jail for the murder of the fertilized egg/person.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

I'm sorry but you cannot killed someone who has not been ever born in first place
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

Babies have a heart beat in the womb and can die in the womb therefor they must be alive in the womb. And even before that. Even just as a ball of cells. Cells are alive. Murder is murder.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: No Recognition of Gay Marriage

It cannot breathe, drink, eat, move, think... which is less than cells can do.
Debate: Which is the Greater (bigger) Crime Against Hummanity?
Side: ABORTION - 50 MILLION KILLED

Actually it dose eat. It is feed sustenance through the umbilical cord. And fetuses do move ever heard a pregnant women talking about her baby "kicking" it's not a metaphor for something the baby is really kicking. And sense its moving that indicates brain activity which is classified as thought.