Debate: Capitalism vs Socialism
Side: Socialism

Your main point is inconsequential to me as I am not the person you were directly debating with. I'll let him sort out your main point if he sees fit to do so. I, however, am mostly concerned with the contentions I denounced.Alot of the poverty malarky; the idea that the average Soviet citizen was considerably poorer than the poor of the United States; derives from one of the worst contextual misinterpretations of wages I have seen. It is common for anti-Communist theoreticians to look at wages, including real wages, and see that; for example; the average wage in the USSR is 2.00 an hour while the average wage in the USA is 10.00 (they do the same for Cuba). This, of course, ignores all of the free goods and services provided to the general population. Given to all Soviet citizens but never included in the standard of living calculations are free health-care, free post-secondary education, free psychiatric care, among other public services.Also, the differences between a Socialist economy and a Capitalist economy with regards to what wages actually mean is never factored in. Lately, however, we have seen a rise in a new form of standard of living calculations that considers more than wages and GDP per capita. According to the papers I so lovingly googled for you; the standard of living in the USSR averaged rather well up to the era of Khrushchev. However, taking in only the Stalin years we see a dramatic rise in the standard of living; this includes the continued social upheaval that marked the slow end of the civil war, the famine years, and WWII. http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:gIQj25664GoJ:www.econ.ubc.ca/dp9718.pdf+soviet+u nion+comparison+standard+of+living&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1≷=us&client=firefox-a http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:H5ira9fs-W0J:www.hsph.harvard.edu/pgda/seminars/ 2007/Spring/Brainerd_Ussr.pdf+soviet+union+comparison+standard+of+living&hl=en&ct= clnk&cd=3≷=us&client=firefox-aHave a read, sweetheart; interesting stuff. "o begin, the Soviet Union's living standards didn't begin to improve until the "Khrushchev Thaw", essentially a liberalization reform which gave the dramatically more freedom to move and trade, and a host of other things like the uncensoring of books and integration into the international community."According to the papers published that is outrightly false. The standard of living in the USSR began under Stalin, increased under Stalin, and then increased even further under Khrushchev. The "liberalization" policies you mentioned were certainly helpful and necessary. Of course; the term "liberalization" is certainly misnomer if you are thinking of the current usage, meaning a drive towards Capitalism and Free Markets.Khrushchev simply transferred economic power from the central government to regional and local governments; or from a centralized Socialist system to a slightly decentralized Socialist system. A good idea; certainly, and nothing outside the boundaries of Communist theory. Of course, the papers talk about the stagnation in living standards after Khrushchev. Oddly enough, this stagnation was not confined to the Soviet Union but broadly felt by the United States, Britain, and most of the other developed nations. Economic downturns were affecting most of the developed world; partly because of the energy crisis but also due to a number of traditional economic problems. Some of my information on living standards comes from offline books and atlases so I am still researching Soviet living standards online. Since you wanted this short I will just deal with one of the most glaring falsehoods you put out. I'll do Venezuela later as well; perhaps that's another debate entirely. It's irritating how easily a simple debate can turn into many debates in such a short time.