azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

Abortion for Rape Victims?  By Gregory KouklIf we allowed an abortion under those circumstances it would send a terrible message, that when someone reminds you of something extremely painful you can eliminate them. But you can't kill another human being just because their existence makes your life physically or emotionally burdensome.If I had a law on my desk that restricted abortion except in the cases of rape or incest I would sign it, even though I don't think rape and incest ought to be exceptions. I'd just rather save 98% of the children whose lives are taken through abortion rather than none.©1999 Gregory Koukl. Reproduction permitted for non-commercial use only.For more information, contact Stand to Reason at 1438 East 33rd St., Signal Hill, CA 90755(800) 2-REASON (562) 595-7333 www.str.org
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

You are assuming from a Christian article that everyone in the world must believe in Christianity, which can't happen because God gave man free will. Of course it is not morally right if you are a Christian, but not everyone is a Christian and you have to respect their rights as well. Did not Jesus command, 'love your neighbor as yourself'? Your neighbor could be a Christian, atheist, wiccan, whatever, could they not? It is not up to you to judge someone, leave that to God. No matter what you do or say, people will continue to have abortions in the world. It is an unfortunate fact of life, similar to war, similar to racism, similar to obesity. You see them committing a sin and loudly call them out, but you are being hypocritical because you also sin. You are saying that you are perfect and never sin, which, unless you are Jesus coming back down again, is impossible. I am a Christian as well, but I realize that it is wrong to judge and criticize someone for sinning when I do the same thing as well, albeit a different type. Like I said earlier, leave the judging to God.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

So let me see if I understand you. Killing children isn't actually wrong. It is only if you believe it is. So what Hitler did was good because he thought it was. And it would be good, by your logic, to kill you so long as I believed it was right. Since when does right and wrong depend on what one believes? This is certainly not the view of right and wrong that Jesus of Nazareth held. To be a follower of Him means to hold the same worldview has he does.About loving: To love someone means to seek the very best for them and protect them from what harms them, You can't say you love someone and then stand by when they are being harmed when it is within your power to do something. Humans in the early stages of life just happen to be your neighbor. Go back and read the passage on the Good Samaritan. Your position is the one the Pharisee took and the one Jesus condemned.about judging: The passage of scripture were Jesus deals with judging doesn't condemn judging nor forbid it. It does condemn judging hypocritically however. It then goes on to say " first remove the log from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers" If judging is wrong for you? why did you judge what I wrote? are you saying that you are perfect and never sin? I guess you don't leave the judging to God do you.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

No, you are way out in left field. Stop the red herrings and keep it to the topic. What does Hitler have to do with abortions? As I said earlier, one of two commandments to adhere to as a Christian (that Jesus said himself in the gospels) is to love your neighbor as yourself. Let me ask you, what did Jesus believe about abortions, since you feel that my interpretation is not right? What is the view of right and wrong according to Jesus of Nazareth?You stand by and watch people kill each other during war. What kind of love is this? Yes, you can do something concerning abortions. Judging them as a murderer however does not encompass this. That is the main point of my argument. I am saying you cannot judge someone to be murderer and that they are automatically going to hell because they have an abortion.What do you mean by 'judging what I wrote'? Judging to me is calling a male gay because he wears pink, calling a person retarded because they fail a grade in school, and calling a person hell-bound who has an abortion. Apparently you did not read the last part of my statement concerning sin. Also, I need to know what your definition of judging is, since you disagree with mine.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

Lets see Hitler killed people. abortions kill people. Wow your right, no correlation at all, a true red herring.Want to know what Jesus taught about abortion, right and wrong and judging people? Go get your Bible and knock off the dust because it would be wise to ask Him not me.Final thought; We are all lawbreakers and apart from the grace of God, all of us are going to prison for a long time for comic treason. And since the one we offended is infinite in worth, the debt we owe is infinite also. So consider what infinity minus 10 thousand is, infinity. That's how long it will take to pay the debt. But that's not the question at hand is it; it's about abortion. And for that there is only one question; what's being killed? If it's not human, no justification is necessary. No one needs justification to remove a tumor do they? But if it's a human being killed in an abortion then no justification is adequate.So if you think abortions shouldn't be banned, please tell me exactly what is being killed in an abortion,
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

Hitler was a murderer for having abortions? Like I said, keep it to the topic. Hmm, lets see...You dispute me, I ask for evidence as to why you dispute me, you come up with "go check the Bible." I'm still waiting for the evidence. I ask two simple questions. What did Jesus say about abortions? What is right and wrong according to Jesus? I mean, if you want to cop out and not answer them, you shouldn't keep the debate going, since you were the one who disputed me.We are all lawbreakers. So how should one type of sin get emphasized over the other? God looks at every sin the same way, except for blasphemy against HS. A person who commits a murder commits the same sin in the eyes of God as someone who lies. Why are you trying to deny it? You have no right to tell someone that their sin is worse than yours, because you are not God, and God does not judge sins that way except for one, blasphemy against HS. "Go get your Bible" if you think I am wrong. I can't keep arguing with you if you continue to take the debate off topic. We are talking specifically about whether you should judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion. I have said this throughout my past statements, yet you want to keep diverting the topic to something you feel comfortable with. I put my first statement under the 'abortions should be banned' view for a reason. The question is not about what is being killed in an abortion. Obviously it is a human being imo. Again, stop cop-ing out and keep it to the topic. Should you judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion?
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

The funny thing is you say that I say a whole lot of things that I can't find in the things I write. Maybe you could help me out and tell me were I said such things like: "Hitler was a murderer for having abortions""You have no right to tell someone that their sin is worse than yours". I said that?"Should you judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion?" Were did i do that? I thought the question was; Should abortion be banned. And help me with this one: "We are talking specifically about whether you should judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion."Who is judging someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion?Please show me were I said that.Just for the record; my view is that everyone of us, apart from the grace of Jesus Christ, is hell bound for the high crime of cosmic treason, aka idolatry. Romans 1:18-25Romans 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.If I remember correctly you responded to a post I made quoting Greg Koukl who i thought made a very good point regarding the question of this debate and you responded with, you can't use that, it's Christian. How very judgmental of you.Anyway, since your not to familiar with what scripture teaches. I'll help you out. And note the part were Jesus says you shall not murder. About right and wrong; notice that Jesus quoted the Ten Commandments here. That's an objective standard, not a subjective one as you suggest. And he says in the last passage that all men will be judged by this law. That means it applies to all men, at all times and in all places. that is the polar opposite of what you say.So one of you has got to be wrong.Matthew 19:17-19 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

You are correct in your assessment of me. Doctrinally I consider myself a Reformed Baptist, but primarily a follower of the historical Jesus of Nazareth. I also think we agree for the most part, however I took exception with several things you said because I found them to be inconsistent with a Christian World-view. Primarily your statement that Christian morality applies solely to Christians. That is known as moral relativism (for a full discussion of this please see the book by Francis J. Beckwith and Greg Koukl titled: Relativism: Feet Firmly Planted in Mid-Air ) The scripture I quoted was to make the point that morality, according to Jesus, was objective. I was very explicit about that; to infer anything beyond that is to read into what I said something that is not there. I also took and take exception to your insistence that we are commanded not to judge. The only thing I can find is a command not to judge hypocritically and then a command to judge once we have dealt with our own sin. I do agree with your sentiment of judgmentalism and the holier than thou attitude I think your are trying to address. If we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone then we have nothing in which to boast. Even the faith I have is a gift from God Ephesians 2:8 I am by nature a murderer and hell bound sinner and deserving of the wrath of God, but I have received mercy and I 'm now commanded to go and show mercy as I have been shown mercy.But I ask how are we to fulfill the great commission if we first don't judge that people are murderers( see the sermon on the mount) and hell-bound? If there is no peril, there is no need of a savior and no need to warn people. And that means that Jesus died in vain. But Jesus made a judgment, people are murderers and hell-bound and it matters not how they got there, only that they need to be saved. And He asked me to go for Him and seek and save that which is lost. If I'm His follower than I'll do what he commands me.“If you love Me, keep My commandments" John 14:15 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:19-20
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

No, as a Christian, I believe the morality that God gave and still gives applies to everyone of every race, regardless of religion. There is no such thing as another religion, for they are committing idolatry. Either you interpreted my statement wrongly or I misspoke. I don't believe morals are relative to peoples of a certain religion or a certain culture. If I did, I wouldn't be a Christian because I would be contradicting myself and my beliefs. I think it is important that we go over the verses in question and see the meaning behind it.Matthew 7:1-5"Stop judging others and you will not be judged. For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged. And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying, 'let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,' when you can't see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log from your own eye; then perhaps you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye."My interpretation of these verses are that Jesus is warning you from judging someone else for their sin when you sin even worse, in other words being hypocritical. Now, as a Christian, it is your duty in Matthew 18:15-17 to kindly confront the person about what they have done, with the goal being to bring repentance in that person (James 5:20). You could also look at 2 Timothy 4:2, where it says that you should kindly correct, rebuke, and encourage with good teaching. You see what I am saying? You are not to judge someone, but to rather point out the truth to them so that James 5:20 can occur. To kindly come up to someone and tell them that what they are doing is wrong for the purpose of bringing them closer to Christ is not the same as pronouncing judgment upon someone. We are to judge the sin as murder, and always with the goal of helping the person see that Jesus is a solution for the consequences of sin. Now, if I go up to someone who commits an abortion and yell at them that they are going to hell for being a murderer, what does that solve? It doesn't solve anything. This is the kind of hypocritical judgment Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7. On the other hand, if you kindly go up to the person, show them where they made the mistake, tell them that they can be forgiven of it with the blood of Jesus Christ, and send them on their way, you plant the seed in them in which they can hopefully come to Jesus. Of course, it is up to them to decide, but by showing them the solution to the problem, you have a much greater chance of that person coming to grips with what they have done, and then turning to Jesus and becoming saved.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

Palinin,Help me with something if you can. As I read back through this debate something odd jumped out at me. You dismiss and ignore every point I raise and then expect me to answer every point you raise; why is that? waiting for a response.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

There is a difference between refuting and ignoring. I addressed every point you made and didn't keep bringing up topics that were irrelevant to the debate, such as Hitler.Abortion for Rape Victims?By Gregory KouklYou are assuming from a Christian article that everyone in the world must believe in Christianity, which can't happen because God gave man free will.So what Hitler did was good because he thought it was.What does Hitler have to do with abortions?To be a follower of Him means to hold the same worldview has he does.As I said earlier, one of two commandments to adhere to as a Christian (that Jesus said himself in the gospels) is to love your neighbor as yourself.We are all lawbreakers and apart from the grace of GodWe are all lawbreakers.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

The Jewish Holocaust is considered a life issue.Life issues also include abortion and euthanasia.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

HItler has everything to do with abortion!The only difference between the Jewish Holocaust and the Abortion Holocaust is that the abortion holocaust is longer and many more people have died!
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

Hitler killed many living lives. Abortions kill potential lives, fetuses, things that we can create an abundance of. People who have abortions have gone on to have many children. Does the world need more population or something? Are we in crisis mode because the world population is shrinking?
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

Exactly. The child is not to blame for the rape that occurred to the woman. I watched an episode of Endeavour and I saw a woman who had a child, her boyfriend was murdered in cold blood. The child was about to be taken by the woman's mother and father. This woman is their daughter but the parents refused to allow her to look after her child. The cop involved defended the custody of the child belonging to the daughter herself and warned that he would arrest the parents for stealing the child away. From that episode alone, I saw, a mother's child is her's and her's alone unless she abuses the child ofc, than the child will need to go into protective custody or to the father if he didn't leave. Child abuse is real these days. Other than that, if the woman decides to marry the man she loves and has children together, the responsibility falls on both of them.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

nearly everyday of the week, the US government (your tax dollars) is killing innocent children in Iraq and that does NOT seem to be such an issue
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

That is not even the argument. We are debating abortion not the war in iraq.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

The debate is about abortions, which is about the act of stopping an unwanted pregnancy from developing into a life. Pro-lifers are arguing that abortions are killing lives which is what war is!!!! So what pro-lifers wanna do is put a ban on wars instead of abortions, since wars are killing actual lives and ruining many others, whereas abortions are just potential lives and not actual lives...Put a ban on wars and you'll free up so much money spent on defense every year! Why do you worry about abortions so much when the world population is not exactly dwindling...
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

Prev, show me how this has to deal directly with abortions being banned and I will answer it. I think you meant Afghanistan now anyways, we are pulling out of Iraq.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

attn Palinin2040:the double standard used by many anti-abortionist/pro-lifers makes me kinda blah about the so-called abortion debate [just give 'em education and contraception and watch the number of abortions drop]they wail-n-moan about innocents murdered in the womb (something the government has nothing to do with in comparison to war) but turn a blind eye every time a bullet or bomb. that they paid for, kills murders an innocent Iraqi or Afghan childwhy even bother discussing the thousands of Vietnamese killed in "free fire zones" and during "carpet bombing" raidsa young woman decides to "kill" her baby and the "lifers" don sack clothes and ashes. your government kills and the "lifers" rally behind the flag and cry patriotismthank goodness this rank hypocrisy is being well documented and will not be erased from history
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

To sum up your argument:Pro-lifers are hypocrites because they oppose the killing of babies from abortions while approving of the killing of babies during war.I understand your viewpoint, but I disagree with it. I don't approve of war at all, and I am pro-life for the most part. There are other people just like me as well, but you said many, so you are pretty much correct in your reasoning.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

Going off topic invalidates your arguments 100%. Seriously. Stay on topic or get off this site. Grow up and cry me a river, prevaricate. We are discussing the lives of babies not a war.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

Well, once it is a child, it already is illegal to kill it.Before the first tri-mester it's a cluster of cells with no more self-awareness than a kitchen table.So that wouldn't be "killing a child" at all.And don't start with the potential bs. Because by that logic you would also have to outlaw masterbation, and save every ejaculation in a cup separating out the thousands of sperms representing "potential" life and finding female eggs to inject them in.... 'course judging by your past arguement, I guess you'll try anyway.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should be banned

Yes, you are absolutely right, it is illegal to kill a child, but just because it a simple "cluster of cells" in the early stages of pregnancy, does that give us any further right to destroy it? Not convinced? Perhaps this example will help my point:You are walking through a farm one day, and you stumble upon a chicken egg that has been freshly laid. You step on it, and guess what? You have commited murder!I instantly know the reply to that statement, after all, it's just an egg, so therefore there isn't any developed life growing inside... yet! It doesn't matter how far the stages of development have gone, because there is ultimately going to be a child, and forcing an early abortion is the prevention of life, and in my eyes, is nothing short of an abortion at say the six month stage of a human pregnancy.By the way, if I may add this, then I would say that your view on the "potential bs," and how we should "outlaw masterbation," is either incredibly misguided, or incredibly stupid. Need I remind you that there are several billion sperm cells in each male. So, how many sperm cells are produced during the process of masterbation? I certainly wouldn't think billions, millions, or even several thousands!
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

Oh jeez, I don't know where you and that J whatever guy came from, but your critical thinking skills are absolutely awful on this topic.My point about the thousands of potential lives every time a guy cums are accurate.There are thousands of sperm, each "potentially" able to make a life if it finds an egg. This is every time a guy cums. Look it up. There stored in you, if you don't jack it or screw they're dissolved in the body or come out in your sleep. But it's a sperm holocaust literally everyday within our bodies.And I used that example to show J whatever exactly how silly the "potential" life argument is.Potential life is not a legitimate excuse against abortion. Because, exactly... like... I... said... we destroy thousands of potential lives every single time we masturbate, or don't masturbate, or even when we do have sex.Now, reread this twice if you feel a need to reply, and consult a dictionary if you have to, I'm tired of having to over-explain the simplest things.
Debate: should abortion be banned
Side: abortion should not be banned

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is graced;If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.Let the heathens spill theirs on the dusty ground --God shall make them pay for each sperm that can't be found.Every sperm is wanted; every sperm is good.Every sperm is needed in your neighborhood!Hindus, Taoists, Mormons, just spill theirs anywhere,But God loves those who treat their semen with more care.Every sperm is sacred! Every sperm is great!If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate!-- Monty Python