Debate: Christians should stop campaigning against abortion.
Side: Have every right.

Ok, I understand better now that you have explained your post. "I did not state that God would be non-powerful, I stated that he would not be all-powerful. Secondly I did not jump to a false conclusion, the conclusion is based on deductive logic"I misread this, for that I apologize. As for the conclusion, I still believe it to be false. I think the main argument here is the relation between God's omniscience and free will, which you believe to clash resulting in omniscience precluding free will. I will answer on this below."God is touted as the first cause of everything, this would include evil, if not then God did not create all, if so, then God wishes abortion to happen as if he didn't he would not be all-powerful and all-knowing. If God is the originator of all and is all-knowing, he is the originator of evil"Chiristians believe that God created all things, yes. So, your first point of "this would include evil"; God created man, and God's desire was that man would love Him and what He gave to man. But, love is not real unless we have the ability to not love. God could have created man and left out evil and free will, giving man no choice but to love Him. That isn't what He wanted though; He wanted man to love Him out of choice, He wanted man to love Him amidst all the evil. God created choice for man, and whilst He knew what choices man would make, He wanted man to have that choice to make. "Why would a man need to consult God on that which God already knows and planned for. If God is to intervene then it is already predetermined by God that he would do so, as God would have to have known the actions that this man would take"God does not plan out our lives, He gave man a brain so that he could make his own decisions, but God knows our futures and what will happen etc. God would have known "the actions that this man would take" but what I am saying is why would God intervene when the man had not consulted Him before deciding to kill a child and its future. "Seems a bit senseless, doesn't it. Omniscience precludes free will. A mans supposed free will is benign when the creator created him to carry out the actions that he "decides" to carry out"No, it doesn't seem senseless at all. Omniscience in no way precludes free will. God didn't "create him to carry out the actions", God created man and gave him choices and decisions, and wanted to be a part of the man's life. God COULD take complete control over our lives and control us like we were His puppets, but as a benevolent God, He wants us to make our own decisions and choices. God knows everything that we do, every choice that we make, every thought that we think, but that does not mean that we have no free will, for He allows us to make our OWN decisions, whether they please Him or not. Wars in history are evidence of that; the Vietnam War, WW1, WW2, the Holocaust etc; He knows they will happen, He allows them to happen. Thus, omniscience does not preclude free will, His knowing our futures does not mean He plans them, He doesn't, He simply knows what will happen and still allows us to make our decisions and mistakes - that is what free will is about."are you telling me that Christians do not state that when a loved one dies that it was their time as part of the path that God set out for them?"No, I am not telling you that; Christians don't all rationalize it like that though, you said that all Christians do. You say that God sets out a path for us as though we have no choice or say in the matter - that is false. Free will is for us to CHOOSE our paths, to CHOOSE what we do now, today and tomorrow. " I'm talking about people that narrowly avoid certain death, a surviver of a serious gun shot wound or people that survive cancer, etc."Right, contrary to what you believe, I actually had no idea that is what you meant. So, if I was shot and narrowly escaped death, I would not think to myself 'It musn't be my time to go yet'; God doesn't control us like that, it may be that the person firing had sneezed just as he pulled the trigger and the gun slipped therefore the bullet missed my heart and entered my shoulder instead."answer any of the illogical contradictions posited"What illocical contradictions? The one where you say that omniscience precludes free will? I just did, above, and I showed that omniscience does in no way preclude free will."Have a little think about this obviously impassioned statement if God knows and the time of your death and the place and has planned it, then it was abortion that the child was destined for, if not then God is not omniscient."But He DIDN'T plan it, He ALLOWED the death to happen whether it be disease, murder or freak accident, He allowed it to happen. Same with abortion, He most certainly did not plan it, He allowed it to happen."It is a central point to Christian dogma that one should worship their God without question, this is blind faith and yes your faith is blind, as you can not even entertain the notion that the teachings of the church are contradictory when faced with pure deductive reasoning. I have read the Bible, and I do know quite a lot about Christianity, it is from this that I can form my deductions as to do so with out any knowledge would be ignorance."Here's the thing; the teachings of the church that I attended years ago were corrupt. My bible was the teaching that I turned to and learnt from - so telling me to accept that the church is contradictory is just plain stupid because a) I don't attend church and b) "pure deductive reasoning" - bullshit. "It is wrong as the Bible teaches of God's omniscience and also of his granting of free will, and omniscience precludes free will, so if the Bible teaches that both exist then one or both must be wrong. As for me, as I don't believe in God I truly know I have free will and can sit here typing things that get Christians all worked up as they can't explain it."Already stated how and why and that omniscience does not preclude free will. The bible teaches us that God knows all and gives choice and knows the choices we make and allows us to make those choices. As for the second part, I am not getting "all worked up" because I can explain it just like any other true Christian can explain it. I am generally the laid back type anyhow so it takes a lot to work me up, and believe me, an athiest sitting typing an argument on a computer/laptop has zero chance of working me up.