azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

you seem emotional at the happenings in another debate. They wanted an atheist state for economic and political reasons, not as some sort of replacement (non)Theology inherent in atheism. It would of been smarter to have harvested the power of religion instead of trying to get rid of it. Christians are naturally imperialistic, after all if their not their best friends and family are going to hell. Their children will be raised in a heathen society resulting in them going to hell, etc.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

you seem emotional at the happenings in another debate. I seem emotional? That's a first - most of the people who know me would swear I don't have emotions.They wanted an atheist state for economic and political reasons, not as some sort of replacement (non)Theology inherent in atheism. It would of been smarter to have harvested the power of religion instead of trying to get rid of it.Yet that doesn't negate the fact that they did want an atheist state. Christians have fought war in the name of Christianity, just as atheists have fought wars in the name of atheism !http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ Should_practicing_Jews_christians_and_muslims_be_separated_from_the_rest_of_the_human_race These disputes are not in the least based on logic.I wrote:And, as I said, atheists have also been responsible: Lenin, Castro, Stalin, Mussolini.Aveskde wrote:It perplexes me when believers use this argument, because they are both tacitly arguing that belief systems cause followers to commit murder, including their own religion, and completely missing the mark that the men on their list had no religious belief system but instead political ideology, sprinkled in with a helping of misanthropy.Yet he is forgetting that, while wars have been fought in the name of religion, other wars have been fought in the name of atheism. One'll make a list of Christians who have started wars - that's perfectly acceptable - yet one is mistaken if he tries to make a similar list of atheists. That's what I'd call double-standard and illogical.It perplexes me when atheists use this argument, because they are trying to exempt themselves from responsibility, whereas they put all responsibility for Christian wars on the Christians.Explain this:Why can't a Christian use the argument against an atheist that atheists have been responsible for war, if the atheist is allowed to use it vice versa?"
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

Because atheism isn't a specific belief system, it's a lack of a particular belief. The difference of thought among atheists is far more varied than among christians, simply because defining yourself as believing in one particular god and following the particular tenets of a religion is infinitely more specific than not believing in a god. The term "atheist", in and of itself, tells you next to nothing about the individual in question. That's why using Stalin as an example for all atheists is completely ludicrous - it's like saying that all brown haired people are Nazis because Hitler had brown hair. Stalin was a single individual who managed to get dictatorial control and decided to spread his personal ideals through violence. He does not reflect the views of anyone but himself, because there is no universal atheist set of beliefs.The argument for christians being violent, on the other hand, stems from the fact that certain areas of the bible can (and have) been interpreted as being violent, imperialistic, and warlike. When people act on THESE ideas, it can be directly traced back to a common source, the bible. While this still doesn't reflect on every christian, it does show that parts of the bible can and have been used over the years to justify violence.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

Because atheism isn't a specific belief system, it's a lack of a particular belief. The difference of thought among atheists is far more varied than among christians, simply because defining yourself as believing in one particular god and following the particular tenets of a religion is infinitely more specific than not believing in a god.So because atheism is more complicated they can't be generalized?The term "atheist", in and of itself, tells you next to nothing about the individual in question.In my experience it has told me quite a bit.That's why using Stalin as an example for all atheists is completely ludicrousAnd using Pope Urban as an example for all Christians is also completely ludicrous.it's like saying that all brown haired people are Nazis because Hitler had brown hair.Blond hair. Surely you know nothing about the Third Reich.Stalin was a single individual who managed to get dictatorial control and decided to spread his personal ideals through violence.And he was an atheist. One of his goals was to spread atheism, just as Saladin's goal was to spread Islam during the Crusades. That wasn't Saladin's only goal, but it was one of them.He does not reflect the views of anyone but himself, because there is no universal atheist set of beliefs.Neither do those religious peoples who commit acts of violence.The argument for christians being violent,This is a generalization, by the way.When people act on THESE ideas, it can be directly traced back to a common source, the bible.Is the Bible the cause of the violence, or the justification of such?
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

Their argument is that religions have inherent properties which support war like actions. They point to history and historical figures as evidence. The people your pointing to were more then just atheist, all of them have been lumped together under the term "communist". There are confounding variables in your evidence, you'll have to clearify how atheism leads to wars, and why many other atheists who are not "communist" do not support wars. I clarified how christainty supports imperialistic actions in my last post, I can also show a path of how it could be against it as well(its less common though). you should be able to do the same on the position your supporting. Lenin, ccastro, stalin, mussolin happened to be athiest, they did not start wars because of their atheism. Aveskde doesn't seem to be forgeting anything, you have yet to show him the accuracy of your position. What you quoted seems reasonable.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

Communism encouraged atheism.By spreading communism they were - whether inadvertently or not - spreading atheism.Seeing as how they persecuted all theists, it stands to reason that it was not inadvertent.Atheists did to Christians during the 1920s-1980s exactly what Christians did to the Muslims throughout the Middle Ages.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

Communism encouraged atheism.By spreading communism they were - whether inadvertently or not - spreading atheism.Seeing as how they persecuted all theists, it stands to reason that it was not inadvertent.Atheists did to Christians during the 1920s-1980s exactly what Christians did to the Muslims throughout the Middle Ages.You're telling me you don't see the error in your reasoning and these sentences were intentional?Your entire line of reasoning reads like:Nazism encouraged blond hair.By spreading Nazism they were spreading blond hair.Seeing as how they persecuted Jews, it was not inadvertent.Blonds exterminated Jews.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

"onwards Christian soldiers, marching of to war"never heard that song?I might be wrong, but I have never heard an athiest claim atheists are morally superior to anyone - a claim that the big three religions all do without much evidence. Athiests (and I) though, do claim that religions give people very dumb reasons for killing others (if they, are gay, women and have been raped, are of another religion - they all deserve to die according to the bible - and doctors are apparently also fair game according to seom revisionist bible nut cases) Also 95% of prisoners are religious (higher percentage than in every day society)showing that religious people might be less law abidantThen also there is the thing about intelligencehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence Now like I have said before: I dont think people who are religious have any lesser capacity to be generally smart (and you can train to get better score on intelligence tests - and they also just rate general intelligence, and not special abilities) I just think the reason that religious people have lower grades in intelligence tests is because religious sentiment (espeicially in the bible belt in America - and in the middle east country´s) is a barrier for further learning. Religious peoplen shy away from learning things that might open up their brain capacity.So I dont think atheism is a key to morality, nor have I heard such claims, but I do think religious thought often aids in being immoral (and stupid - and these two very often go together)
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

Wait, what? "onwards Christian soldiers, marching of to war"So the fact that they were Christian soldiers is the sole reason they were going to war correct? Not for their land or their lives... but because they we're Christian? BS"I do think religious thought often aids in being immoral (and stupid - and these two very often go together)" Seriously? You think believing in a god that will damn you for wrong doings makes it easier to do wrong? Also Immorality and stupidity VERY RARELY go together... Hitler was not stupid, retarded maybe, but stupid he was not. Doing the wrong thing usually takes cunning and determination, even a dog can tell when it is causing undo pain. "I just think the reason that religious people have lower grades in intelligence tests is because religious sentiment" For the love of god ( mine ) please reword that, I hoped you meant to say on AVERAGE, because if not there is absolutely no reason to continue this discussion.Let's just be honest, it is easier to be immoral when you don't have to live by a code of morality correct? Yes religion has been and is involved in more than a few wars, but at the very least their religions won't ask for a holocaust...
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

the full quote was: "I just think the reason that religious people have lower grades in intelligence tests is because religious sentiment (espeicially in the bible belt in America - and in the middle east country´s) is a barrier for further learning. Religious peoplen shy away from learning things that might open up their brain capacity"It is very hard to argue with a person that is only gonna read half a sentence and then start criticizing it as if it was the whole.Seriously? You think believing in a god that will damn you for wrong doings makes it easier to do wrong?You forget one very improtant thing about cristianity - If you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour your sins are supposed to wash away, therefore people can just accept him on their deathbed or when in prison (as many have done) and get this "get out of hell free card" pretty easilly.So yes I am very serious in thinking that the bible (both new and old testament) are very confusing mismatch of different morality´s that in no way go together. I think people generally pick and choose what happens to fit for them out of this book, and i dont think that kind of hack morality helps in any way - and I am afraid the best way to excuse ones evil doings is to have that kind of incongrruent hogwash to go to from where you can pick and choose when to be moral and when not to be, and still be able to count yourself amoung the "saved"Immorality and stupidity VERY RARELY go together... Hitler was not stupid..Colin Wilson Criminologist and one of the best FBI agent/profilers (I forgot his name but he was an consultant on Silence of the Lambs) have both said that criminal genius is very rare. "There are no Hannibal lecters in this world that we know of..." most criminals have average intelligence - but offcourse the smart ones usually get famous, because they are more scary and their behaviour is more interesting.Like I said 95% of prisoners are religious - and Prisoners have a slightly lower IQ than the average citizen (so prisoners also have that in common with relgious people)Contary to popular (American) beleif - Hitler was not an Atheist but a Catholic(many crazy genocidal murderes have been atheists though - and I dont think atheism neccesarilly has much moral highground - other than that we have very few athiests in prison Per capita - and also very few (allegedly) in political office) Atheism is not neccesarilly a panecia for morality (but obviously neither are organized religiouns) but atheism surely has strong evidence for itself as raising IQ´s - for whatever that is worth
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

You love that link, don't you? Religiosity and intelligence.Then, if all these people who believe in a higher power are idiots, explain the smartest people who have ever lived:(This list includes the two people with IQs over 200: van Goethe and Sidis)Robert BoyleJohann Wolfgang von GoetheWilliam James SidisCarl JungIsaac NewtonGalileoMichelangeloJuhann GutenbergJames WattBlaise PascalAlexander FlemingBeethovenMendelBachBaconPasteur
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

You obviously didnt read what I said. There is a tendancy for people who are religious to get lower IQ scores - that does not mean that all religious people are stupid - just that they (on average) have a tendancy to be dumber. Now I said that I think it highly likely that the religious mind set, where you are deterred from valueing evidence, and should take it on the word of your masters (the curch leaders) that things are as they say: this mentality I think is probably the reason that religious people train their mind less, and therefore get lower IQYou are quite right - many religious people have been geniuses. But most of the people you mention are too old to have known all the evidenve about how complex multicellular organisms (like ourselves) can evolve from single cell organisms, that then basically came out of a puddle of simple chemicals.And on the list of living geniuses there are going to be fewer and fewer religious people as time passes. Basically because religions are social constructs that have gotten way passed having any purpose as science has slowly but surely debunked all the theories the church has claimed to be the true represantation of the universe.All religion has got left is a very very vague idea of some sort of sky daddy, and as science gets better and better at explaining mysteries away, then religious leaders are very crafty in making the idea of God more and more vague, so as to save him (the sky daddy) from death by their vaguness.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

I know precisely what you meant. I simply used those names to exemplify the fallacy of your argument.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

that you call statistical analysis with doubleblind experiments: an "argument" shows that you didnt get what is being said here.I am not surprised I need to explain this to a religious person but: you dont argue against statistics of averages by pointing out a few anomalies. A few anomalies are counted for in those statistics -This is a measurement of averages not fundementals.I did not make the arguement that religious people have (on average) a lower IQ than non-religious people: the people who partook in the test made the argument themselves collectivelly. Now my argument was that I though that this was not some sort of concreat thing about religious people that they couldnt get rid of, but rather that the mindset they get used to by being a follower of the big three, makes them not willing to streach their imagination (and at the same time their brain neurons). Then there are some people who have a high capacity for juggling in their mind abstrakt and contradicory thoughts - those people are smart and can (if they want) be religious at the same time as being smart in other fields - but they average Joe, as the statistics show, is not able to do so - and therfore his mind becomes specialized and non-responsive.So now that I have explained my arguement (again). How come you think pointing out smart people who where religious, is going to show a fallacy in this argumentDo you really think you can point out a few anecdotes to topple wide ranging statistical studies - Is this really how poor the american school system has become
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

The doubleblind experiment is fallible. If anybody dare to make the assumption that there is anything which is infallible, I shall direct them to this quotation by Jung:"Any absolutist attitude is always a religious attitude, and in whatever respect a man becomes absolute, there you see his religion"I am not surprised I need to explain this to a religious person but:I hold this as a derogatory remark, as well as being highly fallacious. In other words: Fuck you.Do you really think you can point out a few anecdotes to topple wide ranging statistical studiesNo, I was simply attempting to keep you from using that fallacy; you do mention it extremely frequently.Is this really how poor the american school system has becomeI am not American. Also, I am an autodidact (look it up, PungShiti).P.S.I didn't even bother reading your entire first argument; you use that 'religiosity and intelligence' thing so frequently that all I meant to do was to show you the error of your ways.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

The doubleblind experiment is fallible. If anybody dare to make the assumption that there is anything which is infallible, I shall direct them to this quotation by Jung:"Any absolutist attitude is always a religious attitude, and in whatever respect a man becomes absolute, there you see his religion"I love how religious people tend to pick up scientific arguments and pass them of as arguments for religious beleifI agree with this statement (and so do all scientists) but this is where scale comes in. If you have 9999 test that show gravity as x in strength, and then there is one test that gives out a slightly different result - then that does not makes us all float now does it. The same goes for your legue of extraordanary gentlemen.You cant just say to every experimental result you dont like that "all experiments are possibly fallable" - because these experiments are done multible times. If the experiment gives out widely different results each time, then surely there is something wrong with the method of the experiment, but if the results vary very little, then you can say that the experiment is sound to a given degree.I point out the IQ relgiosity phenomena because it is well documented (been done several times by different parties) and because I love to hear the arguments that religious people have agianst it: and the arguments are usually simple minded statments about the philosopical limits and properties of scientific testing, like yours - and it seems non of you relgious lot know anything about how theorems are tested and made into sound theories.You are right about one thing. I did have to look up "audodidact" So you are self-taught - doesnt seem to have worked too well for you (fuck you too :)
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

I love how religious people tend to pick up scientific arguments and pass them of as arguments for religious beleifMore generalizations.(and so do all scientists)Another generalization.The same goes for your legue of extraordanary gentlemen.More insults(?)I point out the IQ relgiosity phenomena because it is well documented (been done several times by different parties) and because I love to hear the arguments that religious people have agianst it: and the arguments are usually simple minded statments about the philosopical limits and properties of scientific testing, like yours - and it seems non of you relgious lot know anything about how theorems are tested and made into sound theories.Aveskde apparently agrees with me that it is a highly fallacious argument. Here's what he said: "It's not a very useful argument, because if you're trying to call a person stupid for believing, it doesn't work (population versus individual) and if you're trying to say that religion makes people stupid, it doesn't work (stupid people are drawn to religion, not the other way around)."You are right about one thing. I did have to look up "audodidact"So you are self-taught - doesnt seem to have worked too well for you Doesn't seem to have worked well?Tell that to the people who come to me frequently for answers to just about any subject. Tell that to the people who, after meeting me once, tell others that they must be careful what they say around me, because I will never forget anything they say.
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

Aveskde apparently agrees with me that it is a highly fallacious argument. Here's what he said: "It's not a very useful argument, because if you're trying to call a person stupid for believing, it doesn't work (population versus individual) and if you're trying to say that religion makes people stupid, it doesn't work (stupid people are drawn to religion, not the other way around)."I am not calling any one person stupid for believing: I (and the statistics) point out that for some reason religious people tend to get lower IQ´s, on average (meaning that smart individuals can be religious - they are just less likely to be religious) Then my argument was that this lack of skill in general intellegence tests might have something to do with how religious groups (especially recently in America and Brittain) shun learning about important factors of the universe, society physics and biology because it goes against what they belive.It might very well be that "stupid people being drawn to religion" is also a big (and maybe bigger factor) like Aveskde says, but that hardly changes much my argument - I mean, why would stupid people be drawn by religions - could it be because it gives them simplfied answers (so they dont have to think much or train their brain)???Well that would be my argument exactly - That religiouns give people false hope and security and acts as freezer for the church goers brain capacityYour friends are obviously very nice and complamenting
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

It's ironic how your talking about intelligence and you spelled compliment wrong. "complament".
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely not

I find it ironic that I have a greater vocabulary in English than many of you religious guys here, English not being my native languageI also find it Ironic that that was the strongest argument you could think of "a typo"
Debate: Atheists, like Hitler, should be separated from the rest of the human race
Side: Absolutely

I congratulate you on being multi-luangistic, but you obviously do not have as big an English vocabulary as at least most of the people in this debate, seeing as you misused the word "ironic" in your last sentence.