azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

You are using argument from ignorance, thermodynamic is about small things about size of a matches box.Also how do you prove that universe is a closed system? Can you somehow prove it ... or is it just your wish?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

In that sense what does it prove? Nothing. The only thing that the the laws of thermodynamics would be usefull in "disproving" would be evolution on earth IF they applied which they dont because the earth in relation to the universe is not a closed system.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

I'm not sure about the rest of your argument, but I think most believers in god would say god is more than just "everlasting source of energy outside of the universe". And if god is more than "everlasting source of energy outside of the universe" I think your argument fails to prove god (as defined by most dictionaries and believers) exists.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

How does one define God then? What type of "god" can be attributed to "God" status? Regardless, it proves that there has to be something outside of nature that is required to be eternally powerful.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

Take Catholicism. Catholics think god is intelligent. Lets say your thermodynamics example is correct (I don't think it is), all it proves is that there is a energy outside of the universe, not that Catholics definition of god exists. I think you can take any other theology and argue the same thing. I think your being too liberal in your use of the word god since most would say god is not just "energy" or "power".
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

Can "God" be good? Can He be evil? The debate question is too vague. Does God have intrinsic characteristics? etc?And how is my argument about thermodynamics not correct?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

Look up the definition of god. You will see that god, by common definition, is more than just a force. So while vague, god does have some intrinsic characteristics.There is a good article here about your thermo dynamics argument. http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/secondlaw.html  I will readily admit that I don't have a good enough understanding of cosmology, relativity, etc. to make good scientific arguments on the subject. But as the author points out a gap in scientific understanding of nature does not mean god exists. In early history, god was used to explain "everything". As science advanced, we were able to prove that most things have an explanation that does not involve god. Because of this I think that it is disingenuous to simply place god as the explanation for anything that science can't prove at the moment. You can't say god did that, have it proved that he did not, then say oh, god did that, have it disproven, etc. At some point you need to concede that the more likely explanation is that science just has not solved that yet.Going back to my original point, why call a force that "kicked" off the universe god? Why not just call it "first force" or "Gravity"? It's just a force, not an omnipresent intelligent creator. In other words why does the force that started the univers (if there is even such a thing) need to be intelligent?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

Going back to my original point, why call a force that "kicked" off the universe god? Why not just call it "first force" or "Gravity"? It's just a force, not an omnipresent intelligent creator. In other words why does the force that started the univers (if there is even such a thing) need to be intelligent?By nature, something that is limitless energy has limitless capability, which means limitless knowledge and limitless ability to be anywhere; for He would be the very thing that transferred His energy to the universe.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

I think your tendency to anthropomorphize the "force" may be interfering with your reasoning. We want "god" to be like us (intelligent, creative, moral) even through there is no reason for this to be the case.Please explain how limitless energy=limitless capability= limitless knowledge? Knowledge does not increase with energy?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

I think your tendency to anthropomorphize the "force" may be interfering with your reasoning. We want "god" to be like us (intelligent, creative, moral) even through there is no reason for this to be the case.Talk to Plato about that one ;) Realm of Forms to an extent. And who said anything about it being human like? I simply said that it is limitless in power and knowledge. You have jumped to the conclusion (if I remember that this debate is about correctly) that I am attributing human characteristics to it. You were the one, if I am not mistaken, to say that God has intrinsic human like characteristics.Please explain how limitless energy=limitless capability= limitless knowledge? Knowledge does not increase with energy?If something has limitless energy, then it has limitless power. If it has limitless power, then it can do anything. If something can do anything, then it can know anything. If it can know anything, then it can know everything. Thus, limitless energy, capability, and knowledge.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

Knowledge is a very human quality and definitely not something you can associate with a simple force.I think your mixing you terms. Lets say limitless energy does imply limitless power. Power in this equation power is "the rate of doing work" http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/work.html  power is not the "power" that a president or dictator has. Your mixing the two definitions of power to transform it in to something else.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

1) You said it right there, "the rate of doing work." If something can do anything, then it can do anything, which includes knowing.2) And even if you find this argument as dumb, it still does not deny the fact that an eternal power source is required to answer my first argument. And because this being would be outside of nature, then it will never be able to be answered via science. Therefore, one must use rationality to determine what it is. What is it? And if this being did create everything, it still does not answer the "why?" Thus, the only logical answer is that it a God that plays a role in the universe it created.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

Well right away your saying "If something can do anything..", that's a leap. We have yet to establish that a force that "kicked off" the universe "can do anything". All your theory said is that there was some energy outside the universe. It did not prove that force can do "anything"; in fact the force only did one thing: "kick off the universe".To be clear, I don't find any of your arguments dumb. They are very interesting to me. In fact, I really hope that one day someone can convince me that god exists because I think god makes life and living much easier in many ways.So back to the theory... The origin of the universe is one place where science does not have all the answers, but there are theories about how the universe "started" that don't require god or the breaking of the laws of thermodynamics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_model.  If there is any theory besides the god theory, then we can't say the god theory is "right", all we can say is "it's in the running". As I said before, just because science can't prove it today, does not mean or even imply it's god.Maybe another way to look at this would be from my view. In a nutshell, science does a very good job at answering the questions of the universe. Assuming there are a finite number of questions, I don't see why (given enough time) science can't answer them all. Over the history of man, we have gone from "everything seems supernatural" (the sun, lightning, volcano, the moon, clouds, etc) to now "nothing seems supernatural". This is a very impressive feat over a short period of time. So to me it's hard to understand how anyone in modern times, given this amazing track record of science, can have faith in the idea of god, over a scientific explanation of things. I do understand the desire for there to be a god (dying and going to heaven is much better than the alternative), but that desire does not make it true.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

would you present ht proof please? ...any specific good, specific bronze age myth?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

Well in all fairness, I must say that the 'energy being' must be conscious for it to be capable of building the universe with all its laws and regulations.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

Must be? I mean our understanding of the universe thus far points to a very small and simple set or particles/forces. All the complexity has evolved (at the molecular and chemical level, then later Darwinian evolution for animals) from these few simple things. If you think everything just "snapped" in to existence, then yes, it would seem too amazing and complex to be "natural". But, if you imaging things slowly growing an changing over billions of years, it makes much more sense that it could happen without intelligence.On the flip side if you did think everything just appeared, how did that work exactly? How did god get all those tiny pieces in the right place? There must be trillions and trillions of details that need to be "managed" when building the universe "intelligently"?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

--All the complexity has evolved (at the molecular and chemical level, then later Darwinian evolution for animals) from these few simple things. If you think everything just "snapped" in to existence, then yes, it would seem too amazing and complex to be "natural". But, if you imaging things slowly growing an changing over billions of years, it makes much more sense that it could happen without intelligence.--Firstly I don't believe everything just snapped into existence. There was a certain order in which things came, each thing depending on each other in the creation story. First, there was light, then sky, then dry ground etc. So I dont think everything just popped into existence. Furthermore the God I speak of is one with infinite understanding and also infinite capabilities. there is nothing too hard for him to understand( he made it all from scratch) or too small for him to see there is no trillions of details he needs to go through.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

I mean given the complexity and intricacy of the universe even 7 days seems like the blink of an eye in "building" terms. I'm trying to see it from your point of view. Lets say your right and god is intelligent and created the universe in a few days. How did it work exactly? Did he know where everything went ahead of time (I'm thinking of that tiny hair on the right front leg of a dust mite)? How did he physically go from the plan to the physical structures being there and assembled properly?I mean it would be one thing to say the universe magically appeared. I get that. But to say that god was intelligent and purposely built the universe brings up issues in my mind of how that intelligence was transformed in to the physical structures that are here.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

--I mean given the complexity and intricacy of the universe even 7 days seems like the blink of an eye in "building" terms.--To be fair I don't believe we can say God literally built the worlld in a few days like how we understand it. Remember that for the first three days there was nothing to mark the difference between day and night. So in all fairness I can argue that if there was nothing to mark the day with for the first few days then GOd wouldn't simply switch to days on the fourth day. He must have been speaking of day in another sense.And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.  Secondly the Bible also says ( I assume your talking about the Bible) that God sees a day differently from us.But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:8The writer wasn't stupid to make two statements that are completely paradoxical. He is trying to make a simple statement that God experiences time from a different perspective in heaven. So I'm suspecting a rolex would be worthless up there.________________________________________________________________ --I'm trying to see it from your point of view. Lets say your right and god is intelligent and created the universe in a few days. How did it work exactly? Did he know where everything went ahead of time (I'm thinking of that tiny hair on the right front leg of a dust mite)? How did he physically go from the plan to the physical structures being there and assembled properly?Luke 12:7 says "Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."Its to show that God is intimate with what he makes. It is exceedingly difficult for us to know how many hairs are on our head but he knows. HE could have counted them but I doubt he needed to. I just think He 'knows'. Its called omniscience.Secondly God obviously had a plan in my opinion. Whenever I read the creation story you would notice that he had an order in which he made things and each thing is dependent on each other.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

Yeah. This debate almost always comes down to the same point of faith. You have it and can use it to support your belief in god, the bible, etc. I don't have it, so I can't believe in those things (in the literal sense). Maybe you have a different view?The thing that was initially interesting about this debate was the thermodynamics idea since it tries to prove god without using faith. Like many non believers, I would love for there to be proof of god because the idea of god (especially the afterlife) is so attractive.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

I don't then science has really attempted to explore the possibilities of whether God exists. They use 'beat around the bush' tests and theories to disprove his existence and never use one theory to tackle it straightforward. I am trying to learn the tricks and the trade of Thermodynamics and these other scientific principles so I can employ them in my debates but until then........ Another problem I have is with these theories( whether they have been proven or not) is that I do not want to use a theory to support my arguments of God and a few years from now they are dis-proven. I believe my belief should stand side by side with my evidence and for the same time period. Which means I cant be using thermodynamics to disprove my theory today, then use evolution tomorrow because the former has been dis-proven . I want to use something that is a standstill and I've come to realise that scientists keep echoing the same thing over and over again "Where only 99% sure". That really annoys me. Good debate though
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

Hmm. I have never really seen any credible scientific theories that try and disprove god. There must be people trying but I don't see how you can? When your at the boundaries of understood science (how did the universe start, etc) it's pretty easy to insert god especially if its just a force or energy. But to me, as you start giving god human attributes (intelligent, sentient, creative, creator, etc) it's harder for me to believe.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

God clearly exist all around us. There are four forces in nature Electromagnetism, Gravity, Weak force and Strong force. These four forces rarely occur on a plant the odds of them occurring on a planet like ours is 1 in 1,000,000 or more. It does happen just anywhere. Add it would occur after the Big Bang which was 13.7 Billion years ago. But our sun was formed 4.6 Billion years ago. That is a 9.1 billion year distance between the big bang and our suns formation. Which means it is either a miracle or a doing by some being very advance with incredible technology. THe type of technology to create planets.I believe that we are ever closer to finding clues of us and our planet being create by being from another galaxy. I do believe in God and that he did in fact create our Planet.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

I question all of your arguments... As far as I know the four forces of nature exist on every planet. If you can reference material that says otherwise, I would love to see it. As already stated the universe and the number of planets is huge so your odds are off I think. Why is the time between the Big Bang and the formation of our sun an issue? Suns are being created and destroyed all the time and by no means points to incredible technology? Of course you are free to believe in god but your arguments are by no means proving that belief is correct.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

hese four forces rarely occur on a plant the odds of them occurring on a planet like ours is 1 in 1,000,000Good thing there is roughly 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

WOW !!!! You can't seriously take this line of science based argument and then say because it's billions of years between the Big Bang and the creation of Earth a miracle must have happened. THIS IS JUST PLAIN IGNORANT !!!! The stars evolved over many generations. It's why starting from a universe of Helium we have heavy metals today. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST DON'T SAY ANYTHING !!!! I rarely get this rude but this mistaken psuedo science is evil.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

I'm gonna ask a serious question here, which is not intended as ad hom or anything.Do you actually take anything away from debates on this site?I've seen you mention the second law since you joined the site, and I've seen several people (myself included) rebut your use of it successfully. Yet you still continue to use it as an argument.I'm just wondering.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

You have in no way rebutted this argument. You may have tried but all I have seen are people throwing strawmen at it.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

Funnily enough, in our little debate on it, you still haven't responded to me. Seeing as you have nothing further to say on that debate, would that not count as a successful rebuttal?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

1) I don't know what you are talking about. I responded to all of them.2) Clearly since I didn't see it and you are telling me now that I never responded, it shows that simply because one does not respond that he or she is not "defeated."3) Measuring a debate one who wins based on who leaves first is a horrible measuring tool.4) If I said that I'm not responding to you anymore, then I felt that the argument was going no where and you were going in circles, making useless arguments, etc. Thus there was no point in responding.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

The notion of a victor in debate is silly to me anyway. However, say this were face to face, and I made a rebuttal, and you just walked off, regardless of whether you thought the argument was going nowhere, would make you look like your point had been defeated, no?Anyway, in case you didn't see it, the argument you haven't responded to is here.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

There's nothing to respond about there.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

So the quote " What I will say however, is that plugging God in is lazy, especially seeing as we are in the most exciting time for physics since Einstein." is not something you'd respond to? You agree that God in science is lazy?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

I don't agree because plugging God in is the right thing to do. Its a red herring to say that it is lazy to plug God into science.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

Ergo, there was something to respond to in my post, and you were wrong.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

See my rebuttal to your 2nd law of thermodynamics argument. Your're right on the Newtonian level, but wrong at the quantum level. Virtual particles can be observed to pop in and out of existence. CAN BE OBSERVED is the key phrase here. Can you show me a documented observed creating something from nothing.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

You said: "the universe could not fluctuate from positive to negative to positive entropy because that too would break the 2nd Law". This only applies to newtonian physics. At the quantum level there is a thing called a virtual particle which literally pops into existence and then disappears.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

I have heard of these particles. This does not break the 2nd Law, nor the argument.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

The point is that the Newtonian laws do not apply at the scale of the singularity that began the Big Bang. No miracles necessary. You are REALLY on to something when you talk about everlasting energy though.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

Actually, no. Because the particles that appear are in space, while the Big Bang was before space, which would mean that there would be something from nothing. Virtual particles are saying that in space they appear, which means that something was there before. I understand how it can seem as if the 2nd Law is violated. However, the second law only applies to closed systems. This is not a closed system; for it can take from other energies. My argument is in the larger scope of everything; as in the effective nothingness that exploded/expanded could not fluctuate through time from negative eternity to positive eternity. Thus, the argument still stands.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

Yes it does break your argument.You obviously do not understand TD.
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God doesn't exists

If you talk about TD you look really stupid, 2law is Newtonian physics and works only on small and slowly moving. objects/containers. Second problem is ...how do you prove that universe is closed up system?
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

By bringing up quantum physics, an unproven science, you are simply offering possibilities, not hard evidence. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe they have found even one of their theories to be proven about quantum mechanics. In short, all it is is speculation. Please don't bring speculation into a debate about facts
Debate: Does God exists?
Side: God exists

Your reasoning is good until the end. I skimmed over it so I'm not sure if there are any other non sequiturs in there.It doesn't follow that God being lesser in entropy than the Big Bang results in the denial of God. It also doesn't follow that the Big Bang came from a state of higher entropy. Therefore, the argument is a non sequitur.In fact, I actually think you advocated my theory.