azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

You're arguing from the assumption that a tax increase on this upper end is some extraordinary repayment of debt it sounds like.I believe though that this costs the upper end less in terms of "payment" as far as any decrease in lifestyle, then the "cost" to a middle class family, working just as hard, who pays only minimal taxes, even if they pay only sales tax and get a full refund... even worse, the cost to several impoverished mothers, who do work, but need food stamps and must forgo these foodstamps so that this individual may, as stated in another line of this debate, make $23,000 that month instead of only $21,900 that month (aproximately what the numbers would come to at the very lowest end of the tax increase.)The assumption from your perspective sounds like those who are not rich do not have value to society, they are not paying society. They are. They are paying society in terms of low paying jobs that somebody has to do, they are paying society through sales tax, they are paying through their time and effort. Your assumption seems to be that their sacrifice is less. I disagree.In fact, I think they are giving society more when it's measured in terms of personal sacrifice, albeit not by choice of course, who doesn't want to be rich? But the point is this tax increase would do a little to equal how much each is giving back, it in my estimate is still uneven, but it's something.So if fairness is the point, then it is fair for the upper end to pay more. They are not giving more, but in terms of money, they would be paying more. Which is great. I'm not anti-rich. If you are successful it's great that you have more, it's part of what keeps people motivated and createive. I am pro-fairness though, and honest assessment of just how much this would really cost the rich, which is very, very little. It's not a selfless act this taxation.It's not just about fairness though, it is also about opportunity. Ideally, the money would be used to create more opportunity for others to become the ones paying this slightly higher tax rate.Obviously some disagree with the entire theory of how societies best work. But this is the theory and I think it is a very viable one. More so than the stagnation I believe the notion that everyone did it all on their own, and no one owes the society they were raised in a penny of their riches or a drop of their sweat.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

I do not believe that I mentioned any particular increase in taxation. As I read it, the passage in question was a general defence of taxation, and not an argument for the levy of new taxes against the wealthy.LaterI do not see how the rejection of an extraordinary tax can be construed as a rejection of taxation in general.Ignoring inconsistency, and that indeed, the other side of this argument is the rejection of taxes in general and speach addresses that as well, I'll simply lay out what the speach was about again.In 2001 Bush put in a tax cut that goes from $100 or so cuts for the median, up to hundreds of thousands of dollars if you make Romney bucks.This speach was about the repeal of the taxes on the upper end.Your argument, shortened, is there is no guarantee taxing the wealthy more will lead to more opportunity.Okay, but we do know some things.1. The conservatives are going to continue to use the defecit as an excuse to cut programs and distract. Well, you want to cut the defecit? This will, whether it's used to help the poor and middle class or not. Meanwhile, you don't need to cut programs that do help the poor and middle class. These are called austerity measures in Europe, and they don't work as we see. As we saw in the first Great Depression and should have remembered.2. Those tax cuts which were advertised necessary to boost the economy obviously did not work. The US, managed almost miraculously, to go from the strongest the world had ever seen to the second worst in US history all while these job-creating tax cuts were in place.I argue I trust government to put in place jobs programs, fix infrastructure, hire more teachers, etc so long as the conservatives who only want to cut more taxes for the rich, cut any program for the poor, and put cameras in women's vaginas get kicked out of office.And jobs plans have been proposed over and over while the republicans complaining about this speach are busy making lawas about abortion and filibustering any attempt to create jobs.Perhaps its too American-specific a speach for you to have understood the context. That's okay. It was about a specific tax. It was making the argument from a broad percpective of fairness and opportunity.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Yep! He said it and he meant it and I wasn't surprised at all.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

... because he is correct, and no one did it on there own. And it is also self evident.So... you're on the wrong side maybe?
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

You like him, don't you? I mean really like him...
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

I just get bored of blind hatred toward a president. The last president managed to tank the greatest economy in the history of the world, squander the second surplus in U.S. history, start two wars without paying for them, and eliminate basic constitutional rights through the Patriot Act. He's treated like the pope compared to the disrespect this president gets... who subsequently has improved the economy and killed the guy who was used as the excuse for two wars. The juvenile hatred doesn't even have a basis, as this debate clearly shows.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Wait just a minute. I am not blind in my hatred of Obama, it has taken the better part of four years for me to get to the point where I think he is really just a puppet idiot. I respected him and his pledges early on, but now we are in a whole different situation. Which, if you hadn't noticed sucks!
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

1. Your quote is missing chunks of what he said. He didn't say "you didn't build that--" then go on, he explained it. So you're either fueling this idiocy purposefully or have poor sources.2. Nothing he said there is factually incorrect, even with chunks missing. I have my own business too. I couldn't have my own business had I not an education. I could not if other people were not educated enough to start their businesses and need my expertise. I could not without the internet.So I'm going to bitch and moan if someone points out the fact that I myself did not build the internet nor educate every client I get?No, I'm not. I don't base my self-worth on the delusion of 100% independence.If not being grateful for anything and taking offence to any comment shattering some delusional mindset of total self-suffiency is a pre-requisite to being a business owner than perhaps that in itself is insight into the decline of U.S. business as much as the recession.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

1. Your quote is missing chunks of what he said. He didn't say "you didn't build that--" then go on, he explained it. So you're either fueling this idiocy purposefully or have poor sources.Yes, I copied it from CNN...so bad source.2. Nothing he said there is factually incorrect, even with chunks missing. I have my own business too. I couldn't have my own business had I not an education. I could not if other people were not educated enough to start their businesses and need my expertise. I could not without the internet.I agree with you, I was just trying to stir it up al little because I believe he really put his foot in his mouth
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

"Yes, I copied it from CNN...so bad source."LOL. I like how iamdavidh didn't even reply to you. He probably read "CNN" then decided to back off. You see, Democrats can never disagree with their precious CNN. It's all knowing and always right.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Obama didn't kill Osama, the military set up a plan and the soldiers killed him... all Obama did is say "yeah you can do it" when they asked him, what you think everyone else would have said "no don't kill him" really?
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

squander the second surplus in U.S. historyThe lowest yearly deficit under Clinton was still nearly 18 billion.eliminate basic constitutional rightsThe incumbent hasn't?treated like the pope compared to the disrespect this president getsHa. Ha. Let's switch social circles, because I'm certain I'd enjoy yours more than you do.improved the economyhahahahahahajajajajajajajajajajakilled the guy who was used as the excuse for two warsLet's give him another Peace Prize.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

The lowest yearly deficit under Clinton was still nearly 18 billionThe surplus referred to is the public debt surplus. Meaning the administration was paying back its debt to the public.On the point you stated, that 18 billion was down from 430 billion yearly from the first Bush. Considering Clinton took over in a economic recession, this is a pretty incredible feat. Your ability to demean that feat only provides insight to the partisanship that has engulfed the Republican party.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

So I agree with you on this, but you have to admit he made a little mistake in his choice of words when he said: "If you've got a business you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen" (completely different than what he had said a few sentences earlier) It's: "you didnt build it on your own" vs "you didn't build it." Not the same at all. He said both of those things, which contradict each other. So what we have here is semantics and but hurters. Don't get me wrong I'm not butt hurt over semantics but I just want to hear you admit that it was a dumb thing to say.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

Sure, the order of the words is tragic, and the placement of punctuation when read in transcript form. Here's the transcript of that part of the speech.If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.He was talking about the roads and the bridges and the American system that helped them get there. That's what he's saying they did not build. It is even more clear that he is talking about the roads and the bridges and the American system when you hear it as opposed to read it. It was worded in the way to make it entirely too easy to distort though.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

This is what happens when iamdavidh thinks about his favorite politician and man. ObamaAs for the debate, Obama is complete idiot, that is a given.On day to day activities, successful people did do it on their own, but building the capital structure, of course, not, this takes many time.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

I didn't do it on my own because I didn't pave the roads or build the trucks? Fair enough, but when my company fails because I can't afford enough lawyers to by-pass the seemingly endless barriers-to-entry the government has set up for me, are the people going to return all my time and money? No?Then I guess you're something of a hypocrite, Mr. Obama...
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Obama is trying to gain credit for what the free market does, each earning their own share, producing their own capital for their own benefit. The free market is a natural phenomena, to which no single person can claim as their own creation.My success is not owed to anyone because no matter how much they help me, I must put in the effort to make it happen. The people who helped me did so of THEIR OWN SELFISH BENEFIT.They didn't provide me roads, sandwiches, computers and books so that I could have a good life, they did it to benefit THEIR OWN LIVES. To pay their own bills, their own taxes, their own comforts.They DID NOT help me. They helped themselves. The benefit towards me was a coincidence and that's how the free market works. I do not owe them anything for my success, except my continued patronage for being a productive member of society.This is TRADE not GIFTS.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

I'll put it another way. If all my professors of engineering helped me learn about bomb making and I go blow up a few thousand people. will they ALL be summoned and be responsible for my efforts? Will my barber, grocer, parents, all be sentenced as accomplices in a mass murder?If all my helpers are to benefit in my success, then they are also liable for all my failures. To cherry pick all the good ones and discard the bad ones is delusional and mentally dishonest.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

He has no concept of what it takes to own a business. Yes,... we do it on our own. The government didn't help us, they stood in our way in the form of tax dollars and terrible assistance programs that charge the same if not more in interest on a small business loan. It takes sweat equity, stress and risk to run a business and that statement shows his ignorance.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

I think that was his point, but he's not an idiot for making it.Businesses do not get anywhere on their own without other people, by definition.You have to hire someone to work for you?Then your success was not solely on your own.You're a fool or a pompous ass for believing your business was done solely on your own. You are a piece of your business just as your employees are, just as the buildings you run your business from are, just as your investors are, etc.Give me a business where one man does all the work ever - built the building, all the furnishings in the building, manages all the labor, manages all the numbers, hires not a single person to help him (which all this together is not physically or mentally possible unless working from home) - and THEN that person can be pissed off at the President's statements.The fact that anyone is angry with the President's statements is downright sickening. The idea that there are so many people willing to assume that all the work for something as complex as a business was only 100% their own is such a horrendous testament to the piety of this country and society.This debate within itself makes me loose hope in humanity.Successful people did nothing on their own and if you believe they did you are either a fool or a horrible person.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Yeah, iamdavidh is the biggest Obama suck up I have ever seen.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Well, this is kind of a dumb question because there is video evidence of him saying "If you have a buisness you didnt build that somebody else made that happen!" if that doesnt scream successful people didnt do it on their own then i dont know what does......he's an idiot.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Yes he did, and worse he tried to reverse positions almost immediately. I interpreted his statement to mean that a persons success is never earned without help either from parents, investors, government, employees mentors etc. No one does it 100% on their own. I agree but I don't think that means you owe every unsuccessful person in society a damn thing. If you want to give back you should make that choice not some socialist / commie politician who wants to redistribute wealth.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

http://www.youtube.com/embed/QXEoQJ7ZMZs?feature=player_detailpage  ;)
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Obama did say that! His meaning might be different then what some people interpret it as but all in all he did say that
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Obama is an idiot and sounds like he hasnt left Junior High School where personal cut downs are the key to climbing the social ladder. Anytime someone injects resources (time, talent, treasure) and makes something better than it was before an improvement is made. This takes initiative. His statement is an insult to initiative takers and can only be appreciated by the class of envious haters who realize that once they cant have something they dont want anyone else to have it either.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

Andy, I don't think you understand what he's referring to. He's not saying that any of your hard work isn't worth celebrating, or congratulating. He's simply saying that without government services, such as roads, security, and other forms of infrastructure, as well as all of the users that you rely on for income and business, were most probably essential for you to earn the money you did.I think it refers to you significantly less than most, considering that you founded your own business, and while there is some truth there, he did not phrase it especially well, so I'm hardly surprised that you're offended. Hope you feel better soon.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Also, probably should have posted this on the other side, it makes it seem too much like I'm defending him.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Nah, we already know you are an Obama suck up. No use in hiding it.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

Well, I'm not, so I don't know what your point is. Stop implying ad hominems, and debate.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

If there's a money making opportunity for 2 or more people, they will get together and put the infrastructure in place. The government should stay out of it. But that's just me ;)
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

And they should get credit for their creativity and entrepreneurialism, no one disputes that. They, in turn, need to recognize that those who funded and created the infrastructure that will be put in place deserve credit as well. Currently, government is heavily involved in the creation and maintenance of infrastructure, so it's hard to understand your reasoning that government should stay out of it.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Currently, government is heavily involved in the creation and maintenance of infrastructure, so it's hard to understand your reasoning that government should stay out of it.Simply put, the government should not be involved in the business of creation and maintenance of infrastructure.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

Well, the wealthy 1% got there because of government, no doubt, so I can agree with him there.However, most business men are hardworking AND smart, and they use capital to get where they are.Labor is just as responsible for the building of a business as a building. I'd say that successful business men that are not the result of government regulations choosing winners are responsible for 90% of their success. The other 10% goes to the existence of society itself. Because without existence, those successful business men wouldn't exist, and that would mean that they wouldn't have that business.I hope this clears everything up.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

Not really. Like Andy said, Wal-Mart started out as one store. So NO, the wealthy 1% didn't get there because of government. Plenty of doubt.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

One store that could incorporate itself.As well, many smaller businesses are stamped out by giant businesses like Wal-Mart because of regulations (such as minimum wage) and taxes (including in issues of health benefits).Wal-Mart being able to make enough money to be a big business is mostly due to rigid competition, but the inability to compete with a business that becomes so large and heavily incorporated comes a lot from government regulation and taxing.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: Yes, he is an idiot

"Wal-Mart being able to make enough money to be a big business is mostly due to rigid competition, but the inability to compete with a business that becomes so large and heavily incorporated comes a lot from government regulation and taxing."...so you should be on the Obama is an idiot side?
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

I don't care much about the sides. Neither of them are really concerning what I'm saying, which is the problems with government interfering in the market.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

Well, yes, he did say it. But the two options presented clearly show that the "yes" side is completely out of context to what it was that he said.The truth is, they didn't do it on their own. That is not to say that they don't deserve credit for what they've done, but they must also acknowledge that it is not a 100% individual effort. They received a loan or a grant to fund it. If they paid for their business straight out, then they got the money from either their parents or from previous jobs. All of which mean that they had assistance in some form. There is also the fact that they utilize the police, roads, and various other things which are provided by the taxes of EVERYONE not just their own.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

That was taken out of context. Google it and watch the entire thing. He's saying that lots of people helped; it wasn't just you.
Debate: Did Obama really say successful people didn't do it on their own?
Side: No, he had a different point

That wasn't his point. The small quote has been exploited. His point is that if you were successful, you had help along the way. A mentor, a teacher, someone who believed in you. The idea is to take a moment and thank those people.