azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

this didn't stop speakers for both the north and south focusing on it as an issueThe official voted-on state proclamations, made contemporaneously by the people seceding, on why they were doing so cannot seriously be portrayed as people focusing on side issues...it is still important to note that the Union had not ended slaveryExcept it had.There were a couple states that were still in the process, but nearly every northern state had 0 slaves by 1860 - refeven in the middle of the war only ordered an end to slavery in the rebelling states.A) See my statement above about Lincoln's prioritiesB) Lincoln's position (and likely a correct one) was that he could not emancipate all slaves without a constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation only affected combatants because it was justified as a war power.correlation argumentsUtter silliness. If the states themselves tell you the CAUSE - how can you then claim mere correlation?Lincolns platform was generally one of limiting the power of both the federal and state governments, ...The Republican platform of 1860 is completely dominated by slavery, secession, etc. - they were at this point basically pleading to just get back to pre-Dred Scott which was going to make slavery, for all intents and purposes, legal in every state.Because no black or mixed-race man ever owned a slave, and because no white people were enslaved or put into indentured servitude. Right.If your argument is that slavery wasn't racially biased - I think you will have a very long way to go to prove that case.In fact, it is one of the vectors of attack Lincoln used against it. Some people used the existence of slavery in the Bible as evidence that it was acceptable and Lincoln's argument was that the Biblical version of slavery was not based on race, so Biblical slavery would allow for white slaves:"In Kentucky, perhaps, in many of the Slave States certainly," said Lincoln, "you are trying to establish the rightfulness of Slavery by reference to the Bible. You are trying to show that slavery existed in the Bible times by Divine ordinance. Now Douglas is wiser than you, for your own benefit, upon that subject. Douglas knows that whenever you establish that Slavery was right by the Bible, it will occur that that Slavery was the Slavery of the white man—of men without reference to color—and he knows very well that you may entertain that idea in Kentucky as much as you please, but you will never win any Northern support upon it." - refStating Slavery as The sole factor, or even the main factor of the civil war is also revisionismDo you know the causes better than the states themselves? or the soldiers? Can you name any factor that superseded race? Kansas/Nebraska Act, Bleeding Kansas, John Brown, Harper's Ferry, Missouri Compromise, the Fugitive Slave Act, Dred Scott, etc. etc. etc. - nearly every source of tension underlying the war had slavery as its underpinning.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

I cannot continue debating when you're going to cite sources that don't even back your claims. It takes some significant interpretation to interpret all of those as making slavery the primary driver, beyond it simply being the final straw so to speak.The ONLY valid thing here is the point regarding the census date. That was my mistake, and I concede that much. I reiterate, though, that not having slaves is not the same thing as slaves being banned- they weren't. Negative attitudes towards slavery conveniently arose in the north just as industries shifted in a direction that slave labor wasn't suited for, causing a wealth shift towards the south. Hmm. I'm bowing out, but not conceding, and leaving the last word to you. I maintain, however, that it is perfectly acceptable as a symbol of ones heritage. Even if i were to concede that said heritage was, in fact, racist (I don't), that doesn't change the fact that it is a symbol of someones heritage, and does not imply any racism in one keeping at as such. Nor is it appropriate to label it a hate symbol, by any stretch.All yours.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

Heard Lincoln's second inaugural again the other day and thought I should put a quote from it here:"One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it."http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres32.htmlAlso worth noting that slavery is the specific gravamen in the first address as well... - including: "One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute."(thousandin1-You can continue to demur, I certainly have more than proved the case - just wanted to post here so I have my arguments on the subject together so they are easier to find/reference later)
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

Lincoln said that the Constitution was based on the ideal that: "ALL men are created equal." The Confederate states only considered their "niggers" to be 3/5ths of a person (and THAT was, apparently, a minority opinion)! THAT was against the founding principles of America. Anyone who thinks he should have ignored that, or that "most" of the countries citizens supported it, is blind. The VAST majority of America was against it and the abuse of humanity that went with it! The war WAS about slavery and the greed of those who put profit above our founding principles! Funny, we still seem to have those problems today. profit over principle!
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

Absolutely not. The Confederate flag doesn't represent racism, slavery, or anti-black movements; it represents a nation.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes it is racist

yeah - it represents a nation- a nation of racists...
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

What many people fail to realize is that slavery was not the only major issue behind the Civil War. States versus federal rights was a driving cause as well as the economy. That being said, the flag symbolizes things other then slavery and while it is somewhat racist it is largely heritage.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

That's the worst revisionist bs that has ever come out of the American public school system. The issues of state's rights only came up when the South needed to justify itself after the war. The Confederacy was formed for the simple reason that by electing Abraham Lincoln the majority of Americans had indicated that they weren't going to stand for the expansion of slavery, a policy that would have eventually destroyed the slave based economy of the Deep South, for non-slave holders the war made little sense. The Confederate flag then stands for racism and the idea that slavery is justified if you make a lot of money in the process.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

Actually, it is the American public school system that is full of bull. The winners of a war are the ones who write the history, and because of the Union winning they focused on slavery because it was the moral issue that made them the heros. If you read an actual history book then you would find that only 26% of the people who lived in the South owned slaves due to how expensive they were. In actuality, the election of Lincoln was only the final straw. What really happened was that there was a build up of tensions and that was what led to the Civil War. One of the major issue was the North getting involved in the economy of the South via tariffs in order to protect Northern industrialization. The south would end up paying an unproportional amount of the taxes which would also go to help the North rather than the people actually paying the taxes. So paying taxes to a group of people who wanted to destroy the culture of the South did not make much sense. As for States' Rights vs Federal Rights, it had been going on since Adams and Jefferson so saying that it was an issue created after the war does not make much sense. If you want to say because of the idea of slavery being behind the Confederate that the flag itself is racist than that is fine, but by the same logic that makes the American flag the most racists symbol ever because behind it is the idea that killing Native Americans is okay, nuking cities that have Japanese civilians is okay, and that declaring war upon peaceful nations is okay.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

Warlin really hit the nail on the head. The war had little to do with Slavery. If anything, it had more to do with the compromise of 1850 which took away more State's rights. yet, the North was not following the Federal laws put into power.The south felt screwed. They were forced to follow Federal law that the North wanted but the North wouldn't follow it.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

You can't say it had little to do with slavery, but more to do with the Compromise of 1850 - the Compromise of 1850 was an attempt to deal with slavery....
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

The U.s. has discriminated against blacks and Indians in the past. Is the U.S. flag racist? Just a thought.I will admit that most of the people I have seen with confederate flags ARE somewhat racist and uneducated. Most educated people that are not racist that are proud of their southern heritage don't have a confederate flag in their garage. I'm not a big fan of the confederate flag. But I don't think it should directly be linked to racism.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

I agree with you 100%. I was just about to say that. Your argument can be used in other instances, especially in countries which used to have colonies such as France, UK, Holland, Italy, Belgium (just to name a few).And you are also right about that most americans who are using the confederate flag to promote some idiotic racist ideology are extremely uneducated and are strong followers of incest inbreeding....oh, and these racist inbreeds were living on this continent before Columbus and Native American Indians too? See, there is more than one reason why incest is wrong....it promotes stupidity.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

Again, the arguement isn't a question of someone's right to do something, but of the meaning behind practicing that right.One has all types of rights around here.But,Pretend I'm a proud German who just feels that Germany was really really united under the 3rd reich, I mean, I don't personally have a problem with Jews, so it should be cool for me to wave a nazi flag right? I mean, no one would get the wrong meaning from that right?
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

comparing a nazi flag to a confederate flag is a very different one. confederate flag was around before and after civil war, nazi flag was around couple of decades. very big difference.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

aye, ive been reading alot about what you've had to say about this subject. And i agree 100% wit you bossman. i have a debate on this exact topic. its me and my partner against another two. they are for the confederate flag and me and my partner are of course not. its hard finding info about why the confederate flag is racist becuz i need actual facts to support my arguement from actually experts. i for one, already know the truth behind the flag and what u said to all those other people, u couldnt have said it any better than tht. But how do u know so much about this topic? i could use u as my expert.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

Just correct me if I am wrong. Did black men not fight on the side of the evil Confederate Battle Flag waving, evil, southern white man. Bottom line a Northerner can own slaves at that time and all is good, but a southerner owns a slave at the same time and all things related to that period a racest .
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

The US changed its position with regard to slavery (with the 13th Amendment, etc.) - that is the difference between a flag that represents a racist nation and a flag that represents a nation with a racist past.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

The Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern heritage. I am part of a family that fought in the Civil War. The McCoy family fought for the free rights of the Southern States of America. I would fight for my flag any day and I won't stop till everyone understands what the real meaning of the Confederate flag is. i believe the the flag should not be seen a racism but as a flag of rights.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Racist Heritage

The flag itself is not a racist symbol when it is used right. However, that hill was used to oppress African Americans a long time ago during the Civil War. So...it isn't a racist symbol, but it does have a racist heritage.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

The flag is symbol of southern pride and heritage. Now sure the flag has people behind it that that are racist but that is the only thing that people like to focus on. Another example of this would be the swastika. Now everybody knows it was he symbol of the Nazi party and they killed a bunch of Jews so therefore the swastika has to be evil, well what about before Hitler. People seem to look over the fact that the swastika is also a religious symbol for Buddhism and Hinduism.So if you look at these pieces of information is the flag really racist that would be a no. We just like to make people in America feel comfortable so we do stuff like this. So WHITE POWER and remember that is racist but BLACK POWER is OK with everyone.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

its not hate and aint racist, abraham even owned slave and it started because the south wanted to leave the USA because of the economy and education.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

abraham even owned slaveNo, he didn't.the south wanted to leave the USA because of the economy and education.Did they oppose education? Your post is evidence that they may have won that battle...
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

I am a direct descendant from the Lee family (As in Robert E Lee), and I believe that it's a sign of my heritage.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

The war has come and gone 150 years ago, what does it matter now? It could be construed either way, heritage to the Southern states for a war that they almost won, or a symbol of racism. I choose the former: it is a heritage, though it is not up to me to decide if it is to be forgotten.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

Yeah i used to think the confederate flag was racist, but than i looked into what the confederates stand for. They don't stand for slavery or racism. They stand for their heritage and state over governmant. Plus i saw a black man with a confederate flag on his truck soooo.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

Ya know what to me its heritage but hell where i grew up we fly that flag with honor and pride and you bet your ass im racist and guess what if someone wants to give me a dirty glare for what i believe in then you can kiss it son cuz thats what the civil war started upon the yanks wanted the south to join their side but thats why its called the rebel flag and as much as anyone says they aint racist and they proudly wave that flag for heritage you aint true to the history and your a pathetic exuse for sucking the bungholes of our nation...Oh Martin Lucifer Jr. what have you done!!! damn you!!!
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

While i agree that it is some what a sign of racism i think that you should be able to fly a confederate flag ware ever you may please. i consider that it is censorship and i think that is wrong on things like this. flaying a confederate flag is a freedom of speech type thing.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

Why is it that the confederate flag wasn't considered racist until the blacks started to find everything whites did, "RACISTS"? but yet they can call one another the "N" word? lmao at them..... Do they know what the word "double standard" means? I think it's just one more right that they try to take away from the whites.. To show us they can get away with anything and everything.. They kill, steal and rape like a bunch of typical Africans. Their own people sold them into slavery. How smart was that? Our country has been belittled by a so called President so much that we look like a third world country. There's another "get away with" anything.. A Muslim running our country to the ground. Its all a ploy to take over our country anyway they can. If you don't like the U.S.A. then get the hell out.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

This is the Wiki definition of the Confederate flag "the Confederate Flag does not represent and never has represented racism. It is a symbol of southern heritage, representing freedom, states rights, individual responsibility, and resistance to an out of control federal government. It may be true that some racists have used the Confederate flag, but racists also wave the American flag. Consider this: No slave ship ever sailed from a Confederate port or under a Confederate flag. On the contrary, virtually every American slave ship was from either New York or one of the New England states and they all sailed under the United States Flag. Also, at the time of the American Civil War, slavery had been practiced in every state and colony in America and was still being practiced in several northern states, under the Stars and Stripes, even during the War Between the States.Ulysses S. Grant, commanding general of the United States Army during the Civil War was a slave holder. Robert E. Lee, commander of the Confederate Army, was against slavery. The Confederate constitution outlawed the slave trade and Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, proposed a plan to end slavery altogether. There were more free blacks, and also more abolitionists, in the South than in the North. Also, tens of thousands of black soldiers fought for the Confederate States of America in a war which they considered a second American revolution, "War for Southern Independence."Unfortunately racist groups have used the Confederate flag in recent years, but those same groups, especially the Ku Klux Klan, have historically used the American flag for a much longer period of time.The truth is, neither the American Flag nor the Confederate Flag is racist. If people who are racists fly either flag, that does not mean the flag itself represents racism." I think this sums up what the Flag stands for and if it's use by Racists makes it a Racist Flag then so is the Stars and Stripes, The Union Flag and the Flag Of St George
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

The Confederate constitution outlawed the slave tradeIt did not outlaw slaveryhttp://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America - "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."- "1. The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states, and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any state of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property: and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired."- "the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states."
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

I assume you read my whole post and that it was quoted from Wikipedia if it's incorrect fair enough the main concern for me is that you are also quoting from the same source which makes does not prove either of us right or wrong it just shows that Wikipedia is an unreliable source.Forgetting the fact that Wikipedia may be unreliable it is not debateable that the North did not feel Blacks were equal to Whites many northerners were involved in the slave trade and what I have always found interesting is that once Northern soldiers had "freed" Black slaves they worked them harder and treated them harsher, also the Confederate army had Blacks fighting side by side with Whites whilst the Northern army kept Blacks and Whites segregated
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

Ah - the good old false equivalence.You paste a large blob of opinion (which no longer exists) from a wikipedia page and somehow that is the same as a wikisource page where you can click and see the original document.http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Constitution_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America.djvu/10 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Constitution_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America.djvu/19 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Constitution_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America.djvu/20 Wikipedia is a possible starting point - not an ending point.It is useful when someone posts a fact with a verifiable link to a credible source;when you read paragraphs of nothing but opinion - caveat lector.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

So your telling me there were no slaves owned in the North and when slaves were freed the Northern soldiers treated them with respect and were nice to them, also are you trying to tell me black soldiers were not segregated in the Northern army or that blacks did not fight for the confederacy?
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: Yes its racest

So your telling me there were no slaves owned in the NorthAll of the northern states had passed laws abolishing slaverySee my other post here for references.
Debate: Is the confederate flag racist? or is it heritage?
Side: No its heratege

There were Northern generals quoted as saying that if they believed the war was being fought over the right to own slaves they'd switch sides immediately. History is written by the winners and because slavery has become a dirty word the Civil War is now seen as a war over the freedom of the slave with the north portrayed as the gallant slave freeing heroes and the south the evil slave traders, reality is rarely that simple. At the time slavery was not seen as the big issue because of the opposition a lot of people did not think the ban was going to be implemented nationwide. Hence the generals comments about the war not being fought over slavery