azza1625/createdebate-arguments huggingface dataset:
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

Religion has always been a point of argument for human beings. Sometimes, even leading to war, such was the case with the Crusades. What is the point of arguing about something that we're not sure is even there? Sure it may be a strong belief, but why must you live your life by a two thousand year old book?The Bible is outdated. It is two thousand years old and over a billion people live their life according to the standards set forth in said book. Books should always have more editions, especially for one that hasn't gone out of print for the last two millenia. It doesn't tackle issues like healthcare, the environment or a democracy. Even if it does, it barely goes into any detail. What I'm trying to say, is that people should stop fighting over and discriminating each other according to what religion they are, but to instead, respect each other for out own, independent character, not by what outdated book they like to read.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Not for the greater good

I try not to, but I often find myself classifying people into two groups. One group who is up to the challenge of cultivating their own beliefs and another who are very strongly inclined to adopt a popular or safe profession of belief that minimizes challenges. I consider the latter group to be much much larger than the former.Theism may indeed promote order but I am not convinced that tranquility and order necessarily entails "the greater good"Theism, from what I can tell neuters healthy skepticism. If they believe that they have access to an entity worthy of complete and utter trust their critical thinking skills atrophy. I think a good measure of doubt is a necessary component of wisdom and wisdom is essential to the greater good. So my opinion is: No it is not.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

NiceSo you're saying tranquility and order (also a good way life?) is NOT the greater good?I don't agree that it neuters healthy skepticism and religious people have a good measure of doubt. People are always thinking twice about everything they do, that's normal, difference with theists is they follow their religion. Doesn't mean they don't doubt. Problem these days is TOO much doubt and TOO much skepticism.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Not for the greater good

So you're saying tranquility and order (also a good way life?) is NOT the greater good?If you have large segments of the population in full submission to tyranny, You may have order and tranquility at the expense of dignity justice, liberrty etc.. this scenario would serve the few and ignore the greater good altogetherHopefully that explains better for you what I was thinking when I typed: "I am not convinced that tranquility and order necessarily entails "the greater good"People are always thinking twice about everything they do, that's normalYeah... Thoughtfulness and respectfulness are the norms.. LOLProblem these days is TOO much doubt and TOO much skepticism.We are polar opposites regarding this subject. However I prefer it framed in this atheistic manner. So I will start a debate entitled "Which causes more problems religiously, excessive trust or excessive doubt?"
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

I think we have different understandings of what a religious society leads to. I don't blame you but that's simply because you're basing your thoughts on history, but moreover history of certain religions as Christianity, Islam and (not so sure) Judaism. However what would you say to a Buddhist society? Or a Hindu society? Certain religions have been detrimental, but imo other religions, some extinct, some not, did not have the problems you've described. egyptians? Ancient chinese and indian? ancient greeks etc. etc. They were all deeply religious societies (correct me if I'm wrong) which did not have the same borders as you're describing (again correct me if I'm wrong).
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Not for the greater good

I am not anti-religion. I am anti-theism.Interesting critique on how I base my thoughts.I support the spirit of freedom of religion. People should be free to practice religion in their own way so long as they are not violating anyone's rights.They were all deeply religious societies (correct me if I'm wrong) which did not have the same borders as you're describingI don't remember describing any borders?
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

by borders i meant the part where you said at the expense of justice, liberty etc.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

Since there is no scientific evidence to prove a "god's" existence, and most stories and ideas about "god" have been proven wrong over the course of history, it is safe to say that there more than likely is no "god," and if there is, he, she or it likely doesn't care about humanity. Therefore it is detrimental for societies to believe in "god" for 2 main reasons: 1: It gives people who "speak for god" absolute power and infallibility in the eyes of their followers, and 2: It causes people to react based on emotions as opposed to reason.1. Those who believe that their leaders are under "god's" guidance and are therefore all powerful and infallible put themselves under the yoke of authoritarianism. Though authoritarianism can be achieved without belief in "god," religion is certainly a tool in the authoritarian arsenal as either a means of oppression, i.e: the Spanish Inquisition; or as a means of persecution, i.e: Soviet Russia/Nazi Germany. Erasing "god" from the minds of people allows them more freedom in their thoughts and actions. It should be up to the individual to decide what his or her personal moral boundaries and beliefs are. People should not be influenced by religion or "god" because they end up supporting what they are told to support as opposed to what they would support on their own.2. Belief in "god" causes people to respond to difficult situations with emotion rather than logic, i.e: the Crusades/ fundamentalist Islamic terrorist organizations. Though not all conflicts stem from beliefs in "god," many do, and the world would be better off with fewer reasons for people to fight. Karl Marx said that religion is the opium of the people. It causes the individual to feel a certain way without taking into account his or her personal opinions. It gives people ideas for irrational plans in dealing with their problems as opposed to logical problem solving strategies. Islamic terrorism is a great example. Much of the animosity Muslim extremists feel towards the West is due to the West's support of Israel. They fight back with car bombs and suicide bombers, when peace talks would be much more effective in supporting their case.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

This is a great argument, so I marked you up, even though some idiot decided to mark you down...BUT the problem is that you're still putting MAN's mistakes as God's discredit. You're right that it is the belief in God that some of these things occur, but then again that can be applied to anything anybody strongly believes in. Take football in England... and how 'hooligans' go about it... the fights, friendships, groups etc. (You've seen Greenstreet right?) People fight, go extreme, argue etc. over DIFFERENCES, PERCEPTIONS, INTOLERANCE, IGNORANCE etc.The thing about having no God and having people think for themselves is that each and everysingly person's mentality and moral coding will be different to their neighbour's and imo that will bring about more destruction than having a God even in today's world.My point is that having God, without abusing 'Him', would create a better mentality for people than those who do not follow God.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

I think you make a fine point in saying that uniting behind a common religion will bring about more peace than allowing divided opinions, and I also appreciate you referencing Green Street Hooligans. I thought that was a wonderful movie and you tied it into your argument nicely so I marked you up a point for it.To clarify my argument, I understand that eliminating religious beliefs will not be the end-all solution to the world's problems, and that people will always fight and try to control one another, however I see religion as simply another tool or motivation to fight. I believe that eliminating religion from the list of things to fight over could only help.To address what you said about uniting behind a common "god": I believe that it is natural for humans to have differences, and that society must find a way to embrace those differences instead of repressing them with religion (or other forms of absolute unity such as authoritarian government, etc.) It may sound nice to have everyone united in feeling and acting the same way, but it is simply not human nature to do so, and history shows that these sorts of feelings only breed more intolerance toward those who don't fall in line. The sort of logic you are arguing for is the same sort that Hitler would have used to explain himself. That society would be better if we all just felt the same way towards everything, and that we were all united behind a common government (or religion in this case). The point I'm trying to make is that people are different. Their moods and opinions are always changing, and the way to cope with this not by eliminating diversity, but finding a way to embrace it (i.e: democracy)
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

hmmm.........People will have differences, but what about religions that not only accept other people's beliefs or lack of them?I do not think it's right to accept people for what they are... or SOME people anyway. When it comes to race, nationality, eye colour, hair colour, religions (not cults) etc. people should and do live side by side. Some issues are contreversal i.e. sexuality, cross-gender, physical enhancements etc. which I think should be eliminated.I ain't not hitler dude, lol. I don't have a problem with differences and in touch with points made earlier the religions I am in favour of have always been very tolerant to certain issues, so wouldn't it be better for not just an extremely tolerant religion, but broad, flexible and continuously evolving religion?
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

I think you will be hard-pressed to find a religion that is as tolerant and flexible as you say. Religions are built around infallible "gods", and therefore must stick to whatever they say at their conception in order to maintain validity. Religions cant change without contradicting their previous statements of infallibility. Look at how hard the Catholic Church fought to stop Galileo's ideas about celestial bodies, and how hard modern Christian organizations are fighting to teach creationism and dispute evolution. If they changed, the would go against everything they were told in their bibles.I didnt mean to offend you with my Hitler reference. I'm sure you're not a fascist or mass murderer, i just wanted to show where that argument can lead. My point is that change, and the ability to cope and embrace it, is almost always for the betterment of society. And since religion's nature is to claim infallibility, they deter change and consequent societal improvement by saying: "what I am saying now is the one and only truth in the world. It always has been and always will be because it is what God wants." This leaves no room for changes or improvements in ideology and leaves no room for those who believe in a separate code of infallibility. Religion is by nature rigid and stagnant in its policies, and it only helps breed intolerance and ignorance and therefore is far more detrimental to society than it is helpful.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

:D You are looking at the POV of abrahimic religions. My example is Hinduism, Buddhism, Taosim and probably a lot more that have allowed freedom to worship whatever religion they please.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

So if everyone gets to worship whatever religion feel like, doesn't that negate your point of uniting behind a common religion? What you are saying here basically agrees with what I said about people having freedom to believe whatever they want. If there is no common religion, then there is no single religion to unite behind and therefore no point to religion as a unifier or peacekeeping tool.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

It's a common religion, not the only religion. Even if there wasn't a single dominant religion. If there were several thousand religions, if they could live side by side with only minor conflicts, if they had tolerance it would be ok. However that's only possible with these religions as abrahimic have a looong and thorough history of not being able to get along with those next to it.It's the mentality of the religions that's most important. The abrahimic religions feel everybody has to convert to their beliefs... which is why it is dominant, because they followed that aggresively. The other religions respect other's and don't agressively convert others and don't feel it's their mission to convert, but more to respect and understand. If religions had that mentality.. then it would definately be a better world and half of these 'religion causes wars' bs ideas would go out of the window.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

You have to call upon God just try sometime and pray to him and just be yourself have a conversation to with about your worries and ask him to make himself real to you and he will. God doesn't want to be where he is not welcome he doesn't want robots thats one of the reason why he gave us a freewill.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

you should try talking to the flying speghetti monster and he may reveal himself - if it is within 10 minutes of the 3rd new moon of the colander year
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

Ive tried to talk to "god," and he fails to make himself real to me in much the same way he fails to make himself real to the 4000 Africans who starve to death every day. When "god" shows to me that he can feed those starving people, or fix the economy, or do something that has a real impact besides making me feel better for a little bit, I'll start believing. Until then "god" can't do anymore for me than heroin can. I can feel euphoria for half an hour, but at the end of the day nothing has changed.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

I hear you and understand all of those things you mentioned. It's a theological discussion on why there are so many bad things that happen in the world.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

Belief in God does not dictate a good moral character and that is obvious by the wars we fight, the priests who molest children, the countless acts of violence carried out in God's name/title, people who profit from running religious organizations (i.e. televangelists) etc.We're a nation that puts "In God we trust" on our currency. If that's not the most blatant contradiction I've ever seen regarding man's claimed allegiance to God...I don't know what is. "God", used to be many gods if you're brushed up on what we now call astrology and mythology. Today, the catch-all term, "God" and the Bible, are used to erase any memory of man's true history and origins so that we may be better controlled by one singular deity who doesn't even exist. I will gladly burn in hell if I'm wrong.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

It's not just a matter of deterrents (i.e. policeman vs. boogie man). Most people seem not to understand that they are good to each other because that's the best way to survive! Or in the context of human society - have a chance of happiness. Without getting into a whole thing about how the media keeps you in a state of perpetual fear (much like the messiahs or priests of old and new) and why, or how a few rotten apples can spoil the whole batch if it seems that antisocial behavior can provide better results for an individual in the short term I just want to say - people are basically and statistically good. It's in our nature to be good. Just like it is to be scared, a fact that the media and religions rely upon with great effect to their bank balance. We need to make a society where there are less (ideally none) poor, uneducated, sick and in other ways unhappy people for no good reason. The question of deterrents, and which one is more effective will become moot. Until then belief in god is just holding us back.For a proof of concept look at Sweden. It's much easier to get a perspective on things by looking at empirical findings then following your intuition - i.e. throwing around arguments with no real data, making doomsday forecasts and alike.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

Believing in God is so Great! Here's just a little list of all the great things that humanity has achieved in "God's" name!1. The Crusades: thousands upon thousands of good honest Christians stopped killing each other for a little while to kill thousands upon thousands of "evil" "savage" Muslims in several centuries of good, honest, and God blessed blood letting. Yay God!2. Witch hunting: without witch hunting, how else would we have been able to put those overly independent, intelligent, or simply abnormal women in their places! And, here's the genius of it; it's win win! Either they're proved to be a witch and then we get to kill them, or they're proved not to be a witch, but they die anyways from the testing!3. Hell: what better way to make little children behave than by terrorizing them with stories of being tortured for eternity in the fiery bowels of the abyss! Belief in God makes parenting a breeze! This also works for controlling mentally handicapped people!4. Purchasing Redemption: everybody makes mistakes! Sometimes you just can't help murdering all those innocent children and then defiling their remains. But wait! Have no fear! You don't have to go to Hell! All you need to do is "Purchase your Redemption" from the Pope or any one of his representatives. Although, this option is no longer available in the present day, there's something even better! Not only can you get away with murder, they'll even pay you for it if you join the US Army, or any one of the private defense contractors currently serving in Iraq!5. Defense against Science (a.k.a. the Devil's Art): From Galileo Galilei to Albert Einstein; from Nicholas Copernicus to Giordano Bruno, our belief in God has protected us against such VILE and DESPICABLE creatures also known as "scientists"! Through such holy means as putting them in prison, burning their books, torturing them to confession, or simply setting them on fire, our belief in God has allowed us to remain in pleasant, ignorant bliss, encouraging us to allow those who are our betters (aka chosen by God) to make our choices for us.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

This is a cop out of the old question to whether god exists or not. If you want your history books forged and you ability to think for yourself stripped of you, I suggest moving to North Korea. Would believing in Santa Claus your whole life make you a better person, what a stupid proposition. Kids don't start stealing and killing when they find out Santa Claus isn't real. The only surprising part is a child can easily fathom Santa not existing, yet grown adults can't do the same with god. Imagine if a child demanded proof that Santa didn't exist, and claimed that it is better to just believe in him...no i bet you can't imagine such a stupid child...only adults seem to be able to defend such an idiotic concept.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: Yes, for the greater good.

dumbo alert. I don't know who's thicker you or misterguy.I guess only time will tell.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

I suggest you read the book called "They are either Extremely Smart or Extremely ignorant" Get it free here:http://extremelysmart.wordpress.com/download-my-book/
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

Everything works the way it would if there was no god, therefore there's no reason to believe there is a god. Just like there's no reason to believe in Zeus or apollo....Etc Whether it is for the greater good (which it's not) is erroneus. Should people believe in Santa their whole lives, would it be for the greater good...who gives a shit, and no, I don't need a fake story to help me behave. We've spent long enough listening to these people, lets try and seek actual truth, rather than live in a fairy land.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

I often hear religious people maintain that without God there would not be any reason to be moral - and that society would be chaotic as a consequence.If that where true why is it that on average 95% of jailbirds consider themselves religious (most of the Christian) in America, and this percentage is higher than the percentage of religious people in lawful societyIt seems to me quite the opposite, that on average religious people have a hard time being moral and following the common law (Offcourse any subgroup has their criminals though)
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

It's interesting that this question was asked, because if you look at many religions and their roles in society one could argue that many, or perhaps most of them were created with belief in god leading to the greater good; a necessary glue for society.Fast-forward thousands of years later and we have Christians killing Muslims, Muslims killing Hindus, and so on. We have simple political issues (globalisation, abortion, sex education, homosexual rights, death penalty, cloning, stem cells, global warming, among many others) which are made insoluble because religious groups decide to make these simple issues into theological issues, dividing countries and communities needlessly all in the pursuit of political power and votes.So while I can't claim to know what a world started on the premise of "No, for the greater good" would look like (since that isn't the case in our world) I can only imagine that it can't be worse that what "Yes, for the greater good" gave us.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

i think that all religion is just a false sense of secruity for people who dont have enough self confidence or want to belong to a community also for when you die you dont just rot but you go to a place in the sky with all your friends and family. You dont.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

No, the terror attacks of 9/11 were faith based decisions and obviously not for the greater good
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

Affirming with the truth is always going to be the best route. Sadly in our society, we have created some situations where the only "greater good" is to deceive ourselves or someone else.I am not saying the truth says God does not exist. I'm saying that until it can be proven as the truth, I'm not going to accept it.
Debate: Is belief in God for the GREATER GOOD?
Side: No, for the greater good.

Ha, well that one went wrong. Crusades. Witch trials. Inquisition. Holy war.