Debate: Noah's Ark, Jonah and the Whale, Adam and Eve....Do you believe in fairy tales?
Side: Yes, it is the word of God

"I don't really see crude coercion as moral guidelines."My point is that atheism doesn't offer moral guidelines."Religion didn't come up with the idea that killing is bad, society did. And then society came up with religion. It should be pretty obvious that for any society to function well there cannot be indiscriminate rape, theft, murder, and such."Why should people care for society when all that matters is their personal survival. If it is so "obvious" to each individual that rape, theft and murder are a threat to their wellbeing, why does it still happen?"Comparatively Jesus was a much better kind of guy than god is, but he was the one who pushed the idea of eternal damnation in the first place. Understandable, as he was trying to civilize a bunch of savages, but still his message wasn't all light and love and forgiveness; he had a dark side."What dark side?"I don't think the atheist ideology has a lot of concern for the law. If an atheist is or isn't mugging you it probably doesn't have a whole lot to do with his atheism. So I don't think your example works, here. But if it did, I would rather have someone withhold a mugging for the sake of the law (because that's actually based on something real) and not for the sake of religious law."Really? I would rather have someone following his own set of personal rules than for them to feel as if their forced to obey the laws of government which were set by someone they consider their equal."Yes I am. I think. I don't really understand the bit about thinking something to others."You said religion causes barriers in society, this is because it makes people believe different things."Atheism is the default state of being. Religion was created and imposed and used for discrimination, whereas a lack of religion has existed since the dawn of man."That's besides the point, atheism still causes barriers because it causes people to think differently to others."I can't speak for all atheists and all religions, but generally I give as much respect to someone/something as it does to me. Religions like Christianity and Islam do not respect me, in fact they make a point of insulting people like me, so I should not be required to respect them."How do religions not respect you?"I feel a moral right to insult someone who insults me, yes, and i think this is more valid than a religious person claiming the moral right to insult someone because a book written by some long-dead desert nomads tells them they have that right."How does the Bible give Christians the moral right to insult people?"Because god responded to this "insult" by destroying our language, shattering and fragmenting it so that it would be next to impossible for people to work together. If people hadn't been working together, making people unable to communicate with one another would have been a pretty useless response on gods part."Making people speak different languages is hardly a punishment."What? The Tower of Babel was constructed for the purpose of uniting and empowering humanity, as well as to scope out Heaven. God saw what was going on, and was afraid of what they might have achieved, working together as they were."The people of Babel, saw themselves equal to God. Hence they wanted to build a tower to the heavens to show that they're all-powerful. Thus, God teaches them humility by showing them that they're not all powerful."Dick move, man! This might have been about teaching humility the same way a mob boss beating the shit out of one of his thugs is about teaching humility, but I don't see how working together for the greater good is "idolizing" ourselves, and I don't see why God felt the need to be such a prick about it."A strange comparision, making a civilization speak different languages can hardly be compared to "a mob boss beating the shit out of one of his thugs"."And if you followed that moral model you would quickly find yourself in prison for life without the chance for parole. Which was kind of my point."It doesn't states, kill bad people. The moral is that only good people deserve to live and also that only God should have the power to kill."A fair point, but my own point about how god went about getting what he wanted in this regard goes undisputed; suffering, violence, and threats are god's tools of the trade. If god made us in his image, that might explain why we're such a violent species; if we made god in our image, which i think is more likely, that explains why he is burdened with all of our fatal flaws as humans; pride, anger, cruelty, and violence. It all makes sense, when you think about it. God is such a savage, violent entity because he was created by uncivilized barbarians."I'm not going to quote hundreds of scriptures about God showing his love to humanity and all that because you should have seen them when you were picking out those previous scriptures.