Debate: Vegetarianism vs Non vegetarianism
Side: Non vegetarianism

Minimal pain is still pain, is it not? Also, I seriously doubt things go so smoothly every time. If animals are viewed as not deserving of ethical treatment, abuses are going to be common.Your argument here is fairly tenuous, I'd suggest reading the link I provided to see why.It does, it makes you less likely to suffer from heart disease. I'll leave this to the other thread.Meat doesn't cause heart problems, it's a matter of good diet. Soy contains certain compounds which reduce cardiovascular problems. Therefore it isn't so much a problem due to eating meat, but abstaining from foods like soy.Ok, I didn't read your point carefully and assumed you were making the tired old argument that animals kill therefore people should kill. Upon rereading I see you were actually saying that we have a symbiotic relationship with the animals we slaughter. Ok, but that doesn't change the fact that inflicting pain is bad. Again, we could preserve genetic stock without breeding and killing.I do not believe that inflicting pain is inherently bad. I believe that meaningless pain is a bad thing. Much pain actually serves a purpose.However, to address your point in particular, farming cattle, poultry, pigs and so on is a largely humane practice when performed on a small level. There is room for improvement (for example, chickens deserve more empathy but somehow they do not provoke it in humans as much as mammals do), but if you have ever lived in a farming state, and you would have probably noticed that in small farms the cows are given ample room, and in general conditions are better because the owners gain nothing from abusing their animals.I agree. However, society is far from the point of negative returns. As things are now, we could achieve much benefit at minimal expense.I can't comment upon this without you elaborating upon what you think needs to be done.I think you're giving an absurdly simplistic answer to a very difficult philisophical question. Maybe people need a certain amount suffering to feel fufilled, maybe a pain-free life would be more satisfying. It's not at all clear. I for one think I would like to live a long happy life with as little suffering as possible. Of course you are free to punch yourself in the nuts repeatedly if you think that's what life is all about.It's complicated to you probably because you see pain as an inconvenience instead of a tool to learn by, and an indicator if something is wrong. On a personal level pain keeps us from laying in one pose or on one body part too long, it indicates a possible health problem, and causes us to avoid dangerous things. On a local level it causes us to learn from our mistakes with others, and to appreciate what we have when it is gone. It gives pause to our lives when they are too regular and full of forgettable memories, maybe a better way to explain it is that a tragedy in our life makes us appreciate good moments instead of merely expecting them. On the global level pain keeps us from acting in a purely detached, callous and manipulative manner towards our neighbour states because it allows us to empathise with their plights. It also motivates revolutions and change in those states so that they don't stay in their bad situations forever.Living in a pain-free life is merely existing, watching a show unfold before you, expecting the next episode. Almost everything in life requires some dialectic in order to give a deeper context. Good means little without evil, happiness is just existence unless you know sadness, lawfulness doesn't mean much without lawlessness, and so on.I agree. I would argue that all the suffering we inflict on animals with regard to their use as food is unnecessary.That's too broad a statement for me to argue with directly.Are you arguing that the pain that is inflicted upon them as they exist in open pens is unnecessary? The pain they suffer from each other and from simply existing, as they wouldn't exist unless they were being used? Is it unnecessary pain when they go hungry from a diet which prevents overfeeding? When they are worked for exercise, and being whipped, is that unnecessary?