for from expert systems from symbolic yeah so I became aware of all of that in the 80s and back then a logic program logic programming was a huge thing was inspiring to yourself did you find it compelling because most a lot of your work was not so much in that realm mary is more in learning systems yes or no but we did all of that so we my first publication ever actually was 1987 was a the implementation of genetic algorithm of a genetic programming system in prologue prologue that's what you learn back then which is a logic programming