optimization algorithms could give us a way of just lightning-fast updating the state of a machine learning system to contain a specific fact like that without needing to have it presented over and over and over again so some of the success of symbolic systems in the 80s is they were able to assemble these kinds of facts better but dude there's a lot of expert input required and it's very limited in that sense do you ever look back to that as something that will have to return to eventually sort of dust off the book from the shelf and