global minima and you can find a region in which there are global minima but no local minima no local minima of higher loss yeah one way is you take in under parametrize network and start introducing neurons and then set them to be like to sort of cancel each other configure the ways you add them in a way that cannot help but it's still a local minima I can make at least I can make it a higher order saddle up certain but I'm not saying you'll find them yeah I'm saying there are ones and certainly not near random initializing