not yes and is there any evidence that indicates otherwise or is it depends on like your parameter settings if you set the learning race small it agrees well if you set the learning rate big then no it disagrees if you set a small aircrews yeah but there are certain values that we usually use in practice so and the ones like a good test error disagree Cilicia pretty simple question I hope but how should we think about Hessians for models that don't actually have Hessians you should think about it as okay one quantitative