logistic loss and when you run forever and ever you try to maximize the margin okay these are of course two endpoints of an extreme case on one of these you're trying to say infinitely close to your initialization the other you're moving infinitely far so they're very different with endpoints probably in my opinion what's interesting is probably when this is not quite zero you're going slightly further than the linear regime but you're clearly not going to this super asymptotic regime you've deviated slightly from the N key