that is, we're all talking ... We're sort of fluidly talking back and forth as if spirituality and religiosity are identical forms of meaning making and they're really not. There are many, many ways to be spiritual. Some involve belief in a supernatural deity with agency, but not all of them do, right? Some of them ... sometimes spirituality means just being full of awe and wonder at something larger than you, that transcends itself transcendence, like in connecting with nature for example. As Einstein was saying in his book.