just finishing up and starting as a new faculty member and neurosurgery with an interest in stroke and Michael marks was a young guy who was interested in putting catheters up into the brain to try to treat stroke so he was a radiologist I was a neurologist and Gary was a neurosurgeon and the typical approach to stroke back then was that those three groups did their own thing that they didn't work together that they worked independently with what they could offer and the idea that we had is that it would be a novel approach to