so that we can find this balance between having something that we can get accurate I guess quantification from but also the joint distributions are not intractable yeah so it's always a trade-off between tractability and match with the real world I would say I think in general first order assumption I mean in principle if you have full state then of course definition of full state means that the first-order assumption will be true otherwise it's not full state but in practice your state will not be maybe the full state of the world to be a