student who was killing it in neural nets and he tried to convince me to switch my interest but I wasn't having any no no you're stubborn I mean I was very stunned I remembering when I look back on it and having been an adviser of graduates yes yes and having seen the various types of graduate students there are including the extremely stubborn ones I remember him coming into my office when I was a grad student and saying Geoffrey I've had this idea that you might be interested in let me explain it to you so he explained this