Conduct Committee — House of Lords, 2021-04-20
Topic: Government Operations
John Lytton (Crossbench, Unknown): My Lords, at the consultation stage I sent a very short response on this matter and, having followed progress, I welcome the chance to debate it. I congratulate the Conduct Committee on its work. I am certain I have no relevant foreign interest to declare, unless the presidency of a literary society in Missolonghi, Greece, and having an Austrian wife makes me somehow suspect I am mainly a retired surveyor, but most of my life has been concerned with avoiding conflicts of interest with matters of confidentiality, ethics and the public interest. The nation clearly expects higher standards of public figures; that is clear. Some years ago, as a member of the anti-corruption APPG, I noted that the Government-appointed anti-corruption tsar spent more time pointing a finger at foreign powers than addressing the acute issues at home. Standards should surely apply across Parliament. With the greatest respect to other noble Lords, I am not sure that there can be exceptions simply for the fact that noble Lords are unsalaried or it is acknowledged that they have outside interests. It is the legislative process that matters. So, part of me is with the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, but I stress that it is only part Peers, as we have heard, are expected to act on their own honour, but it appears from what I will term the Russia report that some do not. In the wake of the Greensill affair, we can also see how vulnerable we may have become domestically and, therefore, how much more so to slick, targeted attempts to influence parliamentarians and Administrations by foreign powers—perhaps jurisdictions where the rule of law does not even wholly apply. If we do not sort this out, the nation will take matters into its own hands, out of disgust, disappointment and distrust in its leaders and parliamentarians. So, this debate is of very great significance if meaningful and trusted dialogue, at the root of the word "Parliament", is to endure I sense, on balance, the probable need to accept what the committee has proposed, but I have reservations. Of course, it might mean changing terms of business and carrying out constant case reviews, and probably arbitrary fee apportionments to establish the earnings, but that is a price I would have to accept, and I could avoid the occasions of risk and further that I am not indispensable. I acknowledge the difference between acting as a professional for a foreign state on its own local administrative matters, and using influence, paid or otherwise, in a manner that seeks to influence our own government legislation of public administration for the benefit of that power I am confident that the general public understand the sense of all this, even if not the finer distinctions. We exclude from this House on occasion those who are found guilty of gross bullying, disreputable acts in private, criminality and so on. That nuclear option remains available to us; if Members are shown to have offended, they can be shown the door. Used judiciously, that would have a significantly chilling effect on some of the potential abuses feared by the committee. The report makes clear that register entry accuracy is ultimately the decision of the Peer. It is thus based on trust, as we have heard. However, it does more to capture the activities of the honest and willing than of a few less-honest Members. None the less, registration and disclosure in debate are important safeguards, and I support the Conduct Committee’s ethic of consistent application of known standards A popular absolutism is not helpful either, although how we are seen outside is what counts, even if that viewpoint is not particularly well informed. Disclosures in a public register do more than inform the world of where prejudice might lie. They also tell those with less healthy interests who is operating in certain areas and the companies or states that they deal with, involvements which could be of political or commercial value to outside influences and which could potentially identify targets for attention. I therefore wonder whether, in due course, some limited exceptions will become necessary. I can see the difficulty for the registrar in sifting through varying shades of involvement, while it is not necessarily that difficult for the Peer making the entry. After all, if they are unable to grasp the general principles, then the public might question why they are here in the first place We are involved in a world where asymmetric conflict exists. We must be aware of that, and I would be grateful at times for periodic briefing and updates on the issues that we need to be aware of and on how to avoid circumstances of influencing. However, going forward, I suggest the following principles. We do not want to completely discourage willing horses. The register and the rules on declaration must be fair, workable and not unduly oppressive. Involvements that are essentially small-scale, iterative and within clearly defined bounds should not become a burden. Practical thresholds should be kept in mind and reviewed, and the significance of the involvement, rather than just the money received, should be weighed in the balance. The subject matter of that involvement ought to have some relevance. For some, it is not significant, but we must be robust in defending whatever is in place and insisting on compliance There is an area for further discussion. I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, can assure us that the rolling process of review will continue. On that basis, I would support the committee where it stands at the moment.