Queen’s Speech — House of Lords, 2021-05-13
Topic: Mixed Topics
Dafydd Wynne Wigley (Plaid Cymru, Centre-left to left): My Lords, I am very grateful, and I hope that the gremlins have gone now. As I was saying, I congratulate the noble Baronesses, Lady Fraser and Lady Merron, on their maiden speeches. Alas, my comments may disabuse them that they have entered a Chamber free of voices seeking new relationships with the nations of these islands The Queen’s Speech exemplified these issues. The Speech failed to differentiate between legislation that applies to England, such as health and education, or to England and Wales, such as the police Bill, and those with UK-wide force, such as the National Insurance Contributions Bill. Was this because the Government intend to take back devolved powers in those matters? Probably not—it is just the "imperial condescension" to which the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, referred, that Westminster fails to accept that the United Kingdom is a multi-legislature state In health, education and many other matters, Wales and Scotland currently enjoy legislative independence, but that seems to have been ignored in presenting measures such as the health and care Bill, the higher education Bill, the Environment Bill and other matters. The reality is that these Bills all deal with competencies that are fully or partly devolved to Wales and Scotland. Will the Minister clarify whether those Bills will apply fully or partly to Wales or to Scotland, or are they mainly, or totally, measures applicable only in England? Will he confirm, if they do apply to Wales or Scotland, that the UK Government have discussed their intentions with Welsh and Scottish Ministers and secured their prior agreement The relationship between our four nations was, until Brexit, evolving on a pragmatic basis. Because of the differing history and priorities, devolution was a process which took different paths in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Brexit, however, challenged the devolved patterns of government in relation to repatriated powers and undermined the delicate constitutional balance developed over three decades in Northern Ireland. So it is little wonder that in the recent elections in Wales and Scotland, independence was a central issue. Plaid Cymru’s leader, Adam Price, campaigned primarily on independence and increased the number of Plaid seats. Some Labour candidates also indicated sympathy for Welsh independence. The Welsh Labour leader, Mark Drakeford, secured a notable victory, reflecting the voters’ belief that he had handled the Covid crisis far better than had Boris Johnson. Mr Drakeford is not independence-minded, but he acknowledged that if Scotland becomes an independent nation Welsh Labour will have to reconsider its position Last Thursday, as the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, mentioned, parties which advocated scrapping the Senedd lost all their seats, because most Welsh voters prefer the way we are governed by our own Senedd to the way in which Westminster governs Wales. Today, no one denies that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have the right to self-determination, as was recognised in Section 1 of the Wales Act 2017 and stated explicitly by Michael Gove last Sunday. The question is whether we should take up the option of independence in the face of the post-Brexit power grabs by Westminster and increasing English nationalism, as seen most crassly in the Government sending gunboats to Jersey If this is Westminster’s approach, it is no wonder that Scotland elected a Parliament with an overall independence-seeking majority and that independence is emerging as a major issue in Wales. Instead of sneering at independence-supporting trends in Wales and Scotland, the Government should ask themselves why this is happening. Is the independence issue here to stay? If so, what models of it might be countenanced Whatever form of independence is espoused by Scotland or Wales, both nations will still have a British dimension, just as the Scandinavian nations have a Nordic dimension. We shall still be partners sharing the same island, with the Queen as head of state. We would wish to remain in the Commonwealth, a culturally diverse, voluntary association of nations. Our model of independence recognises a degree of interdependence and the essential free movement of people between Wales and England, as there is between the south and north of Ireland Instead of seething with indignation at each other through clenched teeth, would it not be more sensible to start exploring these options? Might there be models of confederalism which facilitate the degree of independence that each nation seeks with a mutual acceptance of the need for intergovernmental models of co-operation in those matters that are best suited to our mutual needs, and to geographic and economic reality? Such mutual issues might well include: the sharing of a currency and an independent central bank; the co-ordination of environmental initiatives and of railway services; and those aspects of defence policy which relate to the protection of these islands My appeal is for this Chamber to address these issues positively, across party divides. That is a discussion in which I and my party are more than ready to participate, though I suspect that such an approach may not always be shared in all corners of this House. The failure of the Queen’s Speech to relate appropriately to legislative diversity within these islands is a manifestation of that difficulty.