argyrotsipi/train-dataset huggingface dataset:
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Government Operations
Annabel Goldie (Conservative, Centre-right): It is a little difficult to predict specific examples. Many of your Lordships have had experience of ministerial positions. I imagine that if an anomaly were brought to the attention of the Minister that something was not going to apply; it was no longer relevant; it did not fit in the new framework of what will be a body of UK law, the Minister would be reasonable in trying to ensure that that element, whatever it was, did not appear to make its way via the Queen’s printer on to what is perceived to be the body of law for the UK Some may argue that that is inherently flawed and a deeply suspect way for any Government to behave. In the extraordinary situation in which we find ourselves— I suggest that outside of wartime this situation is unprecedented—common sense has to be applied. There has to be a proportionate way of balancing legitimate interests in the constitution with the practical need to make sure that we do not create nonsense in the statute book.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Government Operations
Douglas Hogg (Conservative, Centre-right): Before my noble friend responds to that, I wish to make a similar point. If a direction is published, that is after the event; whereas if it has to be done by regulation, that in effect gives everyone the right to say that the Minister has got it wrong. That would be prospective rather than retrospective. Does the regulation procedure not have that advantage? It gives people the right to say the Minister has got it wrong.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: International Affairs
Annabel Goldie (Conservative, Centre-right): I hear the noble Lord, and I shall certainly reflect on that observation, but if I may be permitted to advance what the Government consider to be the case in relation to the proposition that this be dealt with by secondary legislation it might enable the Committee to understand why the Government have adopted the view that we have. The alternative option to require that any such direction is to be made of secondary legislation would arguably be counter- productive. The task of identifying instruments that will not become retained EU law will be a continuous one, and our awareness of such instruments will grow over time. I understand and respect the motives behind the amendment. I have to suggest that it would seem rather paradoxical to require the Government to legislate repeatedly in order to avoid the publication of irrelevant EU legislation, but maybe I am being perverse in looking at it that way. The legislation required to ensure that our law operates effectively after exit day will be significant, and I respectfully suggest that we should try not to add to that task in this case. As I have said, though, many useful points have been raised on this complex question, and I shall reflect on all the contributions made. However, on the basis of what I have been able to say, I hope the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw his amendment.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Annabel Goldie (Conservative, Centre-right): I disagree with the noble Lord. I was using "impractical"—if I did use it, and it is so long ago that I started my speech that I cannot remember what I said—in the context of what is reasonable and proportionate in all the circumstances I turn to Amendment 355ZZA—sounds a bit like a pop group—in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles. If I have understood the amendment correctly, the noble Baroness is concerned about regulations being used to diminish the evidential value of certain matters or documents. I agree that this is an important area which we want to get right. Part 2 of Schedule 5 ensures that the rules of evidence, currently in Section 3 of the 1972 Act, can be replaced and properly reflect the legal landscape post exit. The power in Part 2 of Schedule 5 enables a Minister to make provision about judicial notice and the admissibility of specified evidence of certain matters. For clarity, judicial notice covers matters which are to be treated as already within the knowledge of the court and so are not required to be "proved" in the usual way The power in part 2 of the Schedule covers a limited and technical, though important, area, and subparagraphs (2) to (5) of paragraph 4 set out the scope and limits of that power. While I understand the noble Baroness’s concern, and share her desire to ensure that the effective administration of court proceedings continues after exit, I hope I have reassured her that the regulation-making power is designed to do exactly that. In addition, regulations made under this power are subject to the affirmative procedure, as provided for in paragraph 9 of Schedule 7, so there will be a debate and a vote in this House before any new rules are provided for. On that basis, I would ask the noble Baroness not to press her amendment.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: International Affairs
Annabel Goldie (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh for her comments. In response, I will need to be fairly brief. Clause 13 gives effect to Schedule 5, which is a technical but important part of the Bill. Quite simply, Schedule 5 seeks both to ensure that our law is sufficiently accessible after exit day and to provide for rules of evidence replacing those currently in the European Communities Act. I acknowledge my noble friend’s intention to oppose that Schedule 5 stand part of the Bill and will try to persuade her otherwise Paragraph 1 of Schedule 5 requires the publication of relevant instruments defined in the schedule as those that may form part of retained direct EU legislation and the key treaties likely to be of most relevance to, or to give rise to directly effective rights et cetera forming part of, retained EU law under Clause 4. My noble friend will understand that, after a period of more than 45 years of membership of the EU, a huge body of law has developed. Without wanting to seem patronising, that is exactly why this Bill before us is so vitally important. We want to make sure that all the protections, rights and benefits that our citizens in the UK have enjoyed under that huge body of law will flow seamlessly on exit day into our UK domestic law On the specific question that my noble friend asked about whether there was any central archive, I am not aware of any specific central archive, but I shall certainly have officials look at that and I shall undertake to write to my noble friend.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: International Affairs
Annabel Goldie (Conservative, Centre-right): I do not have a response to that specific point, but I shall certainly undertake to write to the noble Lord and provide more detail I revert to my noble friend Lady McIntosh, who I think sought a figure for the number of instruments or individual components of law. I am unable to provide that; I do not think that such a figure exists. Obviously, a lot of work has been done across departments to ascertain what is likely to affect the activities within departments and what is likely to become part of retained EU law post exit day. Again, I shall double-check that and, if there is any more information that I can give in that connection, I shall do so The remaining provisions of paragraph 1 provide for the power to publish other documents, such as decisions of the Court of Justice of the European Union or anything else that the Queen’s printer considers useful in relation to those things. It also ensures that, in accordance with the snapshot, anything repealed before exit day, or modified on or after exit day, does not have to be published. This is supported by the targeted and what I have already described as common-sense power in paragraph 2 to enable Ministers to narrow the task of the Queen’s printer by ensuring that instruments that are not retained EU law do not have to be published. We have had an interesting debate on that and I have given certain undertakings to look at the contributions from Members.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: International Affairs
Annabel Goldie (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, if we do not get through this debate, I will not be visiting anywhere. I must thank a group of your Lordships for their fascinating contributions, some of which have eliminated my need to write to anyone about anything. Still, I shall look at Hansard In the view of the Government, the mixture of defined duties and specific powers provided for in part 1 of Schedule 5 strikes the right balance. I say to my noble friend Lady McIntosh that it is comprehensive, flexible and accountable Part 2 of Schedule 5 ensures that after exit day questions about the meaning or effect of EU law can continue to be treated as questions of law and so can be determined by our courts when determining that such a question is necessary in order to interpret retained EU law. As I said earlier, it also contains a power, subject to the affirmative procedure, to make provision about judicial notice and the admissibility of evidence of certain matters I hope that my remarks have provided sufficient explanation of the rationale behind, and indeed the importance of, Clause 13 and Schedule 5 and why it is imperative that that clause and schedule stand part of the Bill.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Government Operations
Anne McIntosh (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, this has been an entertaining and illuminating debate. I am grateful to those who have pressed the Minister for answers I do not quite understand why there is a discretion in sub-paragraphs (3) and (4) of paragraph 1 of Schedule 5 for the Queen’s printer not to publish the instruments in question, because it would be difficult to find out what they are if they are not published. I look forward to hearing from the Minister how many there were in the last year—if we ever get a final answer. Could she also respond on the issue of why there is no discretion under sub-paragraph (1) when there is a discretion under sub-paragraphs (3) and (4) The Minister has confirmed the scale of the exercise that we will all be involved in. It was not my intention that Schedule 5 should not be part of the Bill; it was purely my intention to explore the fact that there is no archive and we do not know how many instruments of this type there will be.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Government Operations
Richard Cavendish (Conservative, Centre-right): The noble Lord is making an important point about devolution, with most of which I agree. Does he accept that this Government have really gone out of their way to try to devolve power and that in many cases, as I think he would accept, it is the people on the ground who have refused and rejected it?
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Energy
Richard Cavendish (Conservative, Centre-right): The noble Lord will remember from an earlier debate that it seems that Euratom was understood in detail in Yorkshire by not tens or hundreds but thousands of people. I think people were probably not duped.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: International Affairs
Richard Cavendish (Conservative, Centre-right): By whom were these promises made? One problem about a referendum, the principle of which so many of us disagree with, is that it is not a case of a Government making promises that they then have to honour. I do not remember being told about not receiving a penny less. Also, I think that the noble Lord might desist from the extraordinary use of the word "extreme" Brexiteer. You cannot be 52% in the European Union; you are either in or out under this absurd and very unpleasant system of a referendum.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): I am obliged to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their observations on this matter. We are all agreed that we have to maintain the independence of the Parole Board: that is certainly our intention. Transparency came up early in this process as a matter that had to be the subject of review. Indeed, my right honourable friend’s predecessor announced on 9 January this year that he intended to institute inquiries into the question of Rule 25. Those inquiries have effectively concluded and, as I indicated, we intend to bring forward proposals with regard to Rule 25 by the end of April. The detail of that is not something that I can address because we have yet to formulate an alternative rule that allows for the appropriate level of transparency. As to the further, more detailed review that is to touch on victims, for example, and their position, we fully intend that such a review should be completed by the summer. I cannot give a cast-iron guarantee, but that is certainly our intention. We recognise the importance and the urgency of this work I turn to the questions raised by the noble Lord, Lord Marks. The question about the evidence of past offending raises the issue of reports of other offences for which an individual has not been tried or convicted. The court commented on that in its judgment and indicated that such evidence should be before the Parole Board, not in order that it should make its own determination of guilt or innocence but so that it could utilise that material in engaging with the party seeking parole and test their honesty and candour with regard to their previous offending. It is in that context that I anticipate this material being used. Particular note is taken of the interests of victims and the question of notification: that will be addressed in the course of the forthcoming review, as well as the question of how the Secretary of State’s representatives will take a more enhanced role in these matters. That will be a matter for consideration As for training, we were not saying that the training was deficient in the past, but we believe it can be improved. That will again be the subject of the forthcoming review. The noble Baroness also asked what material was and was not before the Parole Board. I should say that the judge’s sentencing comments should, as a matter of procedure, have been before the Parole Board. That is a failing on the part of HM Prison and Probation Service, which should have been providing the material to the Parole Board. There is other material that the Parole Board could have called for, and which the court clearly felt it should have called for, that it did not call for. Clearly, we have taken that into account when deciding on the need for further review in this area. Beyond that, I would not like to make any further comment, except that in light of Nick Hardwick’s resignation it may be that new leadership will bring about change in itself, so far as the conduct of the Parole Board is concerned.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): I am obliged to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, for his observations and readily concur with his comments on the contribution that Professor Nick Hardwick has made to criminal justice in this country. I say that without qualification. Clearly a situation had arisen in which there had to be consideration, both by the Secretary of State and by Professor Nick Hardwick, of whether it would be tenable for him to continue in the present circumstances. In light of that, he tendered his resignation. Again, I repeat, I accept without qualification the comments made about his considerable contribution to criminal justice in this country.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Helen Margaret Newlove (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, this has been a successful day for victims and they have received justice, but we must not forget how hard this journey has been for them. They have had huge pressure on their shoulders. It has not been an easy fight and is still not an easy fight. I ask my noble and learned friend to think that it cannot be right that offenders have legal teams to take them through the parole system, yet the victims have had to crowdfund through the internet to get a legal team to represent them. Surely the Government will look at this so that it never happens again My other point is that, if Worboys appeals this judgment, I want it understood that all the victims in this case should be given the right information, including those who did not go to trial but had their evidence put on file. It is more important that we do not see the same situation again, where victims are scared and do not feel safe for their lives.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): I am obliged for the observations of my noble friend Lady Newlove. I should like to repeat the appreciation of the department and the Lord Chancellor for the work she has done in leading engagement with victims in the inquiry to date. That has been extremely important. Under the present victims’ scheme, those who are the victims of an offence for which there has been a conviction are automatically engaged in the victim engagement scheme. Where the victim of a reported offence did not proceed to trial or conviction, however, the position is different. We shall look at that matter in the forthcoming review.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): I note the observations of the noble Lord. Clearly, the role of the CPS in the conduct of the prosecution of Worboys is a matter of some concern. The CPS takes these decisions independently and clearly, that independence has to be respected. Worboys was the subject of an IPP sentence, albeit one that was liable to open the door to review before the Parole Board. I cannot give an undertaking at this time of any formal inquiry into the role of the CPS with regard to the original prosecution decisions that were taken, but I note what the noble Lord has said.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Douglas Hogg (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I welcome what my noble and learned friend has said about the action that has been taken. With regard to enhancing the role of the Secretary of State at the meetings of the Parole Board, I suggest that in complex cases he gives consideration to using a special counsel, who might, after all, also be able to articulate the views of the victims. I remind him of the practice that was adopted when I was a very junior Minister in the Home Office reviewing the tariffs in life sentence cases, which was to obtain the up-to-date observations of the trial judge, if available—and, if I may say so, the Lord Chief Justice.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): Well, indeed. I am obliged to the noble Lord for his observations in that regard. As I indicated earlier, it had occurred to my right honourable friend’s predecessor, almost as soon as this matter came to his attention, that Rule 25 really did need to be looked at and given further consideration because of the impact it had on the perception of proceedings. Regarding the proceedings of the Parole Board itself, clearly, there are hundreds of individuals involved and engaged in that process. It is critically important as part of our criminal justice system and it is equally important that it should remain independent of the Executive.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): I am not able to answer that question but the point the noble Lord makes is entirely accurate because, generally speaking, the issues for the Parole Board to consider are, first, whether it should release into an open prison environment and, thereafter, whether there should be release on licence.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): The noble and learned Lord makes an interesting suggestion. It is not a point which I recollect being addressed at the time, and the matter was looked at from the perspective of the Secretary of State for Justice. As the noble and learned Lord implicitly acknowledges, the Secretary of State was in something of a difficult position, given that the Parole Board—albeit an independent entity—has a link to the Ministry of Justice. But I take on board the noble and learned Lord’s observation.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Government Operations
James Alexander Douglas-Hamilton (Conservative, Centre-right): Does my noble and learned friend accept that his assertion that there will be a review of procedures with a view to keeping them properly up to date is extremely welcome? Does he agree that in very anxious cases of this nature, the protection of the public must be considered paramount?
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, we are concerned that we maintain a balance between the aims of the parole process and the interests of the victims of serious crime. In the context of any review, that balance will be at the forefront of our minds. The Parole Board has always been conscious of the need to take account of the future of offenders who are in prison. We do not operate a system of permanent internment—there comes a time when offenders are deemed safe for release on licence—but clearly the process by which we arrive at these conclusions has to be the subject of continued assessment and, in this instance, further review.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): Clearly, it is a matter of concern for the entire justice system that victims, particularly of these sorts of serious crimes, should not feel inhibited in coming forward and reporting them. We have seen issues arise regarding the way these complaints were handled on some occasions by the police; those resulted in civil litigation, which has now concluded. We have also seen the issue raised of the CPS in the context of the number of prosecutions actually undertaken in the Worboys case. Clearly, we must keep these matters under review in the context of ensuring that victims of such crimes are willing to come forward and report offences, and appreciate that they will receive justice at the end of the day.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Patrick Cormack (Conservative, Centre-right): Can my noble and learned friend assure the House that this deeply unfortunate case will not result in undue delay in looking at other prisoners who are on indeterminate sentences? That issue has been raised many times in this House, not least by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): Clearly, the Worboys case will not be allowed to displace further consideration of the position of IPP prisoners. That issue is raised regularly in this House. We have had it under active consideration and continue to have it under consideration.
Worboys Case and the Parole Board — House of Lords, 2018-03-28
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Keen (Conservative, Centre-right): I do not regard the position taken by my right honourable friend as inconsistent with the independence of the Parole Board. He took a view on the matter following the decision of the High Court, and he expressed that view to Professor Nick Hardwick, who tendered his resignation.