Housing and Planning Bill — House of Lords, 2016-04-20
Topic: Housing
Elizabeth Andrews (Labour, Centre-left): My Lords, I have two amendments in this group which deal with slightly different issues. The first is an amendment on the consultation on technical details. I have retabled this amendment, which I laid in Committee, because I felt that the explanation the Minister offered was rather elliptical and because there is now emerging evidence that expert and civic groups which have already responded to the consultation are seriously concerned about this. I want to give the Minister an opportunity to put her thoughts on the record The amendment would, in effect, make it compulsory for local authorities to hold a consultation at the second and technical stage of PIP before planning permission was awarded. My argument was then, and it remains, that it is often only at this stage, when the details of the site development are released, that local people really play their part in determining what is best for them and what would really work. That can be anything from the nature of local materials to the location of health centres or shops The Minister has written very helpfully to me and I am very grateful. I would like her to expand, on the record, on what she said: "The idea is that local authorities will have consulted both statutory agencies and the community at the permission in principle stage" I find the phrase "The idea is…" rather worrying. Surely we should have something more at this stage than what sounds like wishful thinking. It is important to understand that argument, because her assertion underpins the reasons spelled out in her letter as to why there will be no required consultation at the technical details stage. She goes on to say: "When a subsequent application for technical details consent is received we consider that the local authority will therefore be in a good position to determine what further engagement is appropriate at this stage. This could make for a more efficient approach and avoid unnecessary duplication" The fact is that the consultation papers I have seen suggest that this has gone down very badly with those who count. The Minister quotes Civic Voice, for example, which carries the experience of civic societies throughout the country. What Civic Voice says in its response is: "While we agree that PIP for allocated sites should be consulted upon through the local and neighbourhood plan processes, we strongly disagree with the proposal that local authorities will not be required to consult with the community and others on applications for technical details consent. It is likely that there will be important matters still to be considered at this stage that affect communities and they should, therefore, be entitled to submit representations. The reality is that it is not just the principle of development that can cause concern to communities and others but the layout, design and relationship with development. This will be the first opportunity for communities to see what the proposed development will look like" That is extremely relevant and very true. That is also the reaction, significantly, of the London Forum of Amenity and Civic Societies, the TCPA and Historic England. I read only four consultation responses instead of 850, but I have a reasonable idea that that view would be echoed by many more. Civic Voice advocates quite simply that an application for technical details consent should be subject to the normal consultation procedures for a standard planning permission. The fact is that the local voice in local decision-making is getting rather faint. That worries me, and, I think, many noble Lords. I ask the Minister for reassurances that the expert group on local plans will not reduce even further the right of local people to participate in local decisions The Minister told me in her letter that she would consider my concerns about this approach, together with the responses to the consultation, before finalising the necessary regulations and guidance. That is extremely important and very helpful news. However, I press her to go a little further. On a related point, I doubt that any of her consultees agree that cutting down the time for consultation from eight to five weeks—which is also proposed—is sensible. Frankly, this gives the average parish council hardly time to meet before it has to produce its consultation response, bearing in mind that most of them meet once a month. Therefore, I seek assurances from the Minister on that. For a start, will she place in the Library a breakdown of the responses to the consultation on the specific point about consultation itself, because that is really important? She will know that the role and the plausibility of consultation is something to which the scrutiny committees of this House return time and again for criticism. It is important to validate that this is a credible consultation process and that people have been listened to. Therefore, can I have an assurance on the record that if the weight of responses from those expert and community organisations reject the idea that local authorities should not be obliged to hold a consultation at the technical details stage, this proposal will indeed be dropped and normal planning rules will apply? I will not press this to a vote this evening but I would be very grateful for some assurances along those lines I am very sad that the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, is not in his place because I feel quite isolated. I am sure that he would have a great deal to say on the involvement of local people. We miss him very much indeed. He is not here, sadly, but I know that this case resonates around the House. There are many instances in which the local voice and localism are at risk of being diminished in the context of planning. In the longer term, I am sure that it is much wiser to listen to local people I turn now to my Amendments 107ZA to 107ZD. In Committee, I tabled two amendments which were intended to identify—in short—some of the hazards that would flow from the creation of PIP and the splitting of the process into two, and to reflect on some of the damage that might be done and some of the unintended consequences. I spoke about archaeology because that is a very acute example. Archaeology is not an exception, as the Government seem to argue, but is the predictable and likely victim of collateral damage in a situation where decisions are taken without full knowledge of what is under a site. New and unanticipated archaeological discoveries are made every day—witness the magnificent Roman villa discovered in Wiltshire last week, which people had no idea about and which may turn out to have international significance in terms of the extent of the Roman Empire and the villa’s great wealth and so on. It is very important. In the existing planning system, the norm has been for many years to carry out pre-determined archaeological investigations. It is a familiar process and it works well. That is swept aside by permission in principle and is not even required at the second technical details stage. In the consultation, the Council for British Archaeology simply said the following to the Government, which I want to put on the record: "If Government wishes to avoid re-visiting ‘in principle decisions … at multiple points in the process’ … it must fully recognise and address the corollary, namely that in order to avoid re-assessment at a later stage all necessary information which may affect the principle of development or its viability must be assessed before permission in principle is granted (and, with regard to archaeological issues, this should be specifically recognised in legislation and stated in policy)" One of the things I suggest the Minister might consider doing is meeting the Council for British Archaeology and the Chartered Institute for Archaeologists face to face to discuss their concerns. She might also explicitly endorse the policy set out in paragraph 128 of the National Planning Policy Framework and ensure that, where it is felt to be necessary, an archaeological site investigation could be made as part of the conditions attached to technical consent. It would be helpful to have that endorsement. Perhaps she could give me an answer this evening or write to me before Third Reading.