Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing (England) Regulations 2015 — House of Lords, 2015-12-15
Topic: Agriculture
Robin Granville Hodgson (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I begin by thanking all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, for her forensic examination of the difference between the regulations, the noble Lord, Lord Trees, as a distinguished veterinarian who is some way further up the learning curve than I am, my noble friend Lady Byford for her practical experience, my noble friend Lord De Mauley, who is a poacher turned gamekeeper or perhaps a gamekeeper turned poacher—I am not sure which way round it is—and the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, who I appreciate made some interesting comments, to one of which I should like to return in a moment As I expected, my noble friend on the Front Bench has given a full, courteous and comprehensive reply, and I would not want him to think that I underestimate the advantages that have come about in animal welfare as a result of some of these regulations. His lengthy remarks on this technical subject deserve a careful read in Hansard, but I have to say to him that I think there was a drawing on a mixture of the religious and non-religious—this way and that way—which I did not find entirely clear. However, I owe him a careful read. We did not get to the bottom of the issue about why there is this critical omission and change in the text of the English regulations compared to those in Wales and Northern Ireland. The Times of 4 November states: "If this was a clerical omission it would be merely regrettable, but it appears to be worse than that. When the new rules on stunning chickens were placed on hold last year the hesitation was explained by Defra on the ground that they might limit religious freedom. Concern was also voiced"— as my noble friend said this evening— "that if a minimum shock strength was imposed that was deemed too high, some halal slaughterers might stop shocking altogether. The first argument prioritised unscientific belief over animal welfare. The second allowed a minority of slaughterers to reset the legal parameters for their whole industry. Religious slaughtermen have a right to derogate from EU law (and thus most national regulations) governing non-religious slaughterhouses. This is as much latitude as any religion can reasonably demand" I am irrevocably or inevitably drawn to the conclusion that these regulations, as regards the position of poultry, are a fudge. Defra knows that they are a fudge and I suspect that my noble friend knows they are a fudge. This is not a happy evening for animal welfare as regards poultry. More importantly, as the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, pointed out, it is not a happy evening for candour in public policy. Whatever our religious beliefs, the Government owe the country to be open and honest about matters such as these. Otherwise, suspicion, misconstruction and mistrust flourish, which was the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, about the need to have transparency in the way in which decisions are reached in these matters I end by repeating that, in the light of all that has been said this evening, I hope my noble friend will go away and talk to his officials about further consideration of putting in the particular words in the regulations, which would answer the questions that we have all raised this evening. But it is late and, in the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the Motion Motion withdrawn.