Armed Forces Bill — House of Lords, 2021-11-23
Topic: Defense
Desmond Browne (Labour, Centre-left): My Lords, this amendment is also in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and the noble and gallant Lords, Lord Houghton of Richmond and Lord Craig of Radley. Once more, I am grateful to them for their continuing support of this amendment This is the fourth time this amendment, or a variant of it, has been debated in your Lordships’ House in a relatively short time. This version of it has been shaved. The specific references to overseas deployment and overseas operations have been taken out, but subsection (2)(c), which relates to "engagement with current and new routes of international efforts to secure a new legally binding instrument governing the use of novel technologies in conflict" has been added to it as part of what the review that it would mandate needs to consider. I will explain that, hopefully in a relatively short period of time The amendment mandates, within three months of the passing of the Act, "a review of the implications of increasing autonomy associated with the use of artificial intelligence and machine learning … in weapons systems" The review would be required to focus on the protection and guidance that Armed Forces personnel need to ensure that they comply with the law, including international humanitarian law, and how international and domestic legal frameworks need to be updated I have no intention of repeating the points I have previously made. I will just take a few seconds to remind noble Lords of assurances we have been given by the Minister thus far. I draw noble Lords’ attention to cols. GC 437-38 from the Grand Committee. I accept that we have been given some reassurances that the MoD is "alert to" the complex issues that this amendment raises and is working and "has worked extensively on them over the … last 18 months." I also accept that presently the Government’s position is that the Minister "cannot set out details until these positions have been finalised, but work to set a clear direction of travel for defence AI, underpinned by proper policy and governance frameworks, has reached an advanced stage"— so we are in keen anticipation—and that: "Key to this is the defence AI strategy", which, it is hoped, will be published "in the coming months, along with details of the approaches we will use when adopting and using AI."—[Official Report, 8/11/21; col. GC 437.] These are substantially the Minister’s words. I do not intend to read all of this; people can read it for themselves. Withdrawing the amendment in Committee, I indicated that I expected the issues, which are moving at a dramatic pace, to have moved on by the time we got to Report, and that the probability was that this amendment would come back, because there would be developments. There have been developments. Some of them are that my knowledge of matters relevant to this amendment has increased, but another of them was much more dramatic Last Wednesday the "Stories of Our Times" podcast published a podcast—do we publish podcasts?—entitled "The rise of killer robots: The future of modern warfare". This was hosted by a journalist, a woman, a podcaster, Manveen Rana. The guests were Matthew Campbell, a Sunday Times foreign affairs features editor, General Sir Richard Barrons, former Commander of the UK Joint Forces Command, and General Sir Nick Carter, Chief of the Defence Staff. I think a British academic based in the United States also contributed. If I can find a way to do this—I think it might be possible—it is my intention to ensure that every parliamentarian in this building, here and in the other place, gets access to this podcast because, more dramatically and probably with better effect, it makes the points that I have been trying to get across in the last three attempts and this one, explaining why it is crucial that this work is done.