argyrotsipi/train-dataset huggingface dataset:
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Nicholas True (Conservative, Centre-right): My noble friend raises a very important point. He says there will not be a lot of complications. Is he not saying that, once his new post-2000 system comes in, each time the house is sold thereafter there will not be an alteration? That seemed to be the implication of what he said. If this system is to have the logic that I think it might well have, clearly at each point of sale—not, as he said, interestingly, of inheritance or gift—the system must, surely, generate a new council tax, whereas he seemed to be saying the opposite.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Mark Schreiber (Conservative, Centre-right): Of course it does: it is the actual price paid. If somebody buys a house, they will know the band in which it will be according to what they are paying. Of course it is the case. At present, if there are major alterations made to a house, there will be an assessment made by local government of whether it should move into a different band.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Mixed Topics
Mark Schreiber (Conservative, Centre-right): I want to say a word on the retrospection point. Recently, the Chancellor of the Exchequer reduced the rate of capital gains tax from 28% to 20%. That new rate will apply to gains which are realised after, I think, 5 April this year on gains which have already been made which, if the sale of the asset subject to capital gains tax had been made earlier, would have been at 28%. So changes in tax rates do have an element of retrospection I do not believe, frankly, that we are going to have a lot of widows who bought a house since the year 2000 finding that they are paying enormous new sums, as my noble friend mentioned. The big increases have probably been in the last five years and it is very unlikely that widows have paid millions of pounds for houses in the last five years or so and therefore suddenly find that they are put on to a new rate. I think it would be perfectly reasonable that they should be put on to a new rate if that were the case.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Mark Schreiber (Conservative, Centre-right): Of course there are two schedules: it is the whole purpose that properties migrate, when they change hands, on to the new schedule. People who are currently occupying a property, if it was acquired before 2000, will be on the old schedule and there will be no change at all. Even in my illustrative table, for most people there will be no change anyway, because although the bands will be different and there will be some losers and some gainers, they will not be very big ones On the noble Lord’s very important point about overseas people, I have always believed that one way of dealing with the abuse of the overseas purchase of property should be that British law should be so administered that ownership is not recognised unless the property has been properly registered by the Land Registry in the name of a person. If that happened, people would be very hesitant to acquire expensive property without getting a proper Land Registry entry, because that is the proof of ownership—if you are going to buy something, you want to be absolutely certain who you are buying it from. The noble Lords raises a perfectly valid point which should be dealt with, although it is not dealt with in this Bill I think that this is an idea worth pursuing. It may be that we will want to make further amendments on Report—if there is time to do it before the new Session, which is probably rather unlikely—but I think that the Bill is an advance worth making and I therefore ask my noble friend to withdraw his amendment.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
James Peter Hymers Mackay (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, this subject of property valuation has proved rather difficult over the years. I spent my early years at the Bar in Scotland on a considerable number of these valuation cases. Then, of course, my noble friend the Minister’s father, as Secretary of State—and a distinguished Secretary of State he was—agreed to have a revaluation in Scotland. When that revaluation came, it was discovered that domestic properties were going to pay a rather higher amount of the local taxation than they had previously. Many people who were interested in politics were owners or occupiers of residential property and the result was an urgent desire to do something to deal with the injustice which this seemed to throw up, and we all know what the effects of that ultimately were. I am not sure that anybody has discovered a really good method of dealing with local taxation. When I made visits abroad when I was Lord Chancellor, I used to ask about these matters. It was pretty clear that nobody in any of the countries that I visited had developed a satisfactory system The present system is certainly by no means perfect, but it could be improved by extending the bands. As has been pointed out, the Secretary of State has the power to do that. There are, of course, difficulties with that. As my noble friend Lord True pointed out, it is difficult to know on what basis the new bands would be applied. It is argued that a revaluation would be necessary. I believe that it might be possible to have a fair system which extended the bands using the previous valuations. That would still produce a change in favour of fairness, although perhaps not such a substantial change as that proposed in my noble friend’s Bill. As has been said again and again, one of the difficulties with this kind of tax is that, through succession or something, people may find themselves in properties which are highly valued, but they may be very short of cash with which to pay the local taxation. That problem is not likely to be solved, albeit that the market conditions may force people to change the properties in which they live It is certainly very worth while considering whether to extend the bands without doing too much more. If that happened, it might to some extent deal with the situation better than it is dealt with at present, although it would not by any means be a perfect solution. The detailed difficulties that my noble friend Lord True pointed out could be modified considerably if something of that kind was done. I am keen for the Secretary of State to consider this issue extremely carefully, although I know, of course, about the political risks inherent in doing anything at all in this area. However, courage is required if you are to be fair.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Roger Bootle-Wilbraham (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend on the Front Bench does not want to get involved in this amendment and, indeed, series of thoughts produced by my noble friends Lord True and Lord Marlesford. However, there is a technical point. Can he confirm whether a property has to be registered at the Land Registry? I rather suspect that the answer is no.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Patrick Cormack (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, my noble friend Lord Marlesford has done a great service in bringing this matter to the attention of your Lordships’ House. However, I am reminded of Ernie Bevin saying that if you open Pandora’s box you do not know how many Trojan horses will come out. We have to tread carefully here. As one of only two Conservative Members of Parliament who did not support the introduction of the poll tax in Scotland, and who consistently voted against it on every conceivable and possible occasion, I hope that we will tread extremely carefully As I said, my noble friend has done the House a service in bringing this matter before us, but I think that perhaps we should look at differentiating between those who are truly resident in this country and those who are not. The escalation of property prices, particularly in London, has had enormous repercussions for the native population. We should consider some form of surcharge for those who merely buy properties as investments and rarely, if ever, live in them. There has to be some consideration of how we deal with that As I say, we have to tread extremely carefully but, of course, we know that because of the lateness of this day in this Session of Parliament, which will shortly come to an end, there will not be time for an exhaustive Report stage on this Bill. We should thank my noble friend Lord Marlesford for bringing this matter to our attention and consider how best we can approach it in the forthcoming Session.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
James Younger (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord True for his work on, and engagement with, this Bill. He has brought to the debate his customary passion and commitment. I am sure that everyone agrees with me that this House benefits from his experience as a council leader and the expertise which he brings to the subject I will not repeat all the points made by my noble friend Lady Williams at Second Reading. However, the Government have a firm commitment to keep council tax low for taxpayers, which we have successfully delivered and continue to deliver. I express my reservations that either with or without this amendment, the Bill would not support that aim. My noble friend Lord True and the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, raised this matter and I agree with them that operating two parallel systems for council tax valuations would risk introducing new costs and confusion into the system. I note that my noble friend Lord Marlesford himself acknowledged that a new system should be administratively easy. In the protracted transition period during which these systems would need to operate, residents could face dramatically different council tax bills, based on the arbitrary distinction of when their home was last sold. The Government believe that it is fairer, as well as simpler, to band properties in a single list on the basis of a common date Furthermore, the present system of council tax provides stability and certainty for households, helping them to manage their finances. It is well understood, which is evidenced by the very high collection rate of 97%. Ultimately, people know that they will be charged on the same consistent basis as their neighbours. I should add that council tax in England has fallen by 9% in real terms since 2010-11. The Government see no need to introduce turbulence and uncertainty into households’ financial management by changing the council tax bands. This uncertainty about council tax bills could generate further risk to the Government’s aims to see 1 million new homes built in England over this Parliament I note and appreciate the remarks made by my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern, who alluded to some interesting experiences in Scotland. In particular, he suggested the introduction of a new band at the top. But he also noted, in his informed contribution, that many properties in the higher bands are occupied by cash-poor households. That, in a nutshell, is the issue and the Government have no plans to introduce a new band My noble friend Lord Skelmersdale raised the issue of whether a property has to be registered at the Land Registry. It is indeed the case that properties purchased before 1990 might not be registered, so he makes a valid point The present system gives taxpayers confidence and stability. It is widely understood and payment rates are high. I hope that noble Lords will understand that, for those reasons, the Government cannot support the Bill.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Nicholas True (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I am grateful to those who have spoken and to my noble friend on the Front Bench for the kind things that he said. They are entirely unjustified: I can assure him that there are many, many people—leaders and former leaders of local authorities—who have far greater expertise than me. We heard from one of them, the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, with whose intervention I very much agreed. His extremely pertinent point about disguised ownership was touched on also by my noble friend Lord Cormack. The massive capital inflows to the country are an issue and we heard, in the Chancellor’s recent forecast, the expectation of the scale of future inflows of individuals and capital that are distorting the market. Attempts are being made to chase, capture and tax that money, but it is difficult. This matter might need to be examined but it is not necessarily a matter for this Bill. Neither is it necessarily a matter that would defeat the Bill, but it is an interesting, separate point of detail I was grateful for what the noble Lord, Lord Butler of Brockwell, said, not least because he agreed with me in detail while making a point on substance. One difficulty with taking the value of a property at a particular time is that it is a snapshot. The current council tax system, albeit based on 1991 values, has benefits. There is a separate argument about revaluation, and I said at the outset that this debate is about my noble friend’s Bill, not about whether we should have higher bands. My noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern made a very important intervention on that. A property changing hands is a snapshot of its value at a time, whereas the council tax basis is an assessment of relative values across the country. Although there will be anomalies in it, it is broadly—and certainly at the time it was introduced it was intended to be—fair and accurate I said in my opening remarks that my noble friend Lord Marlesford brought forward an interesting point and the noble Lord, Lord Butler, supported him. I understand the logic of this. But if you just take individual snapshot values you will get the variations that the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, referred to, which will be frozen in two parallel bands. And it will not reflect the fact of market change Relatively, all houses in an area will go up and down with the market. There will be variations. But let us say that there is a property crash, which is quite possible with some of the excessive values we have now. Under my noble friend’s scheme, if you have scrimped and saved to buy a house worth £525,000 and the market goes down, you will find yourself paying a council tax which is twice that paid by people who paid £495,000. If it is on the excessive value that has been charged before, what does the person do when the value goes down and they find themselves paying twice as much as their neighbours who have just bought the house next door?
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Nicholas True (Conservative, Centre-right): The noble Lord makes a perfectly reasonable point. However, although you can appeal to the valuation tribunal on the valuation of the house, there is a risk that there would then be a cry that the value was no longer fair. Revaluations and appeals on business rates can sometimes take years to determine. I was pointing out that there are potential anomalies and the noble Lord makes a perfectly reasonable point. However, there is a risk of creating new industries and new administrative costs I should not, in this response to the debate, have gone into a new detailed point. I apologise to the Committee.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Mark Schreiber (Conservative, Centre-right): I do not think that any of us envisage a system in which each time people think the value of their house has gone down they can apply to be put into a new band. That does not apply at the moment and it would not apply under the new system in my Bill. With great respect, that argument is pretty irrelevant.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Housing
Nicholas True (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, there is a principle of progression: the landowner will have more dustbins than the person at his gate in the cottage. But the question is whether council tax should be the means of levying an enormous amount of tax on immobile wealth—whether that is the right way to go after that wealth. If we had a Government who wanted to go after people with more money than the average, I have been long enough in policy-making to suggest that there might be better ways of doing so than by using council tax. It is a perfectly legitimate argument that has raged between my good socialist friends and others through all my life, but I would not do it this way I wish to conclude and make it clear to the House before I do, in case any noble Lord wants to intervene on me again, that I do not propose to move my further amendments because we have had an extremely interesting and valuable debate and I do not wish to detain your Lordships. I hope that I have made it clear that if my noble friend wished to bring this Bill forward on Report, I would not only lay a number of amendments but make them more detailed amendments. The local authorities and the householders of Britain would deserve no less. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-04-22
Topic: Other
Mark Schreiber (Conservative, Centre-right): This amendment is merely technical. It was a mistake in the drafting of the Bill to apply it to Scotland and Wales, where of course the devolved powers mean that it would not be appropriate to apply it. So I beg to move that this amendment be incorporated because it is purely technical.
Trade Union Bill — House of Lords, 2016-03-16
Topic: Mixed Topics
Martin Callanan (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I will raise one or two drawbacks to the course of action outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, and others. I have no objection whatever to the cause of e-balloting in principle. But, as I understand it, if the Government are satisfied that it represents a secure, stable and hacking-free way forward, the power to make regulations on e-balloting already exists. For the same reason that we do not allow electronic balloting in general and other elections, the same concerns should exist for trade union ballots as well. It involves considerable challenges, and we all know about the problems on the internet of hacking, stealing ballots, intimidation et cetera. The noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, has attempted to answer some of those problems, but they exist and we should bear them in mind There have been allegations of ballot rigging in trade union elections before. There were allegations of rigging in elections to the national executive of the Transport and General Workers’ Union a few years ago. For the public to have faith in the process, it is important that the integrity of the process is recognised and that people believe that, when a ballot takes place, it is fair to all concerned. For that reason, I oppose the amendment.
Trade Union Bill — House of Lords, 2016-03-16
Topic: Mixed Topics
Patrick Cormack (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I cannot resist responding to my noble friend. I did, indeed, argue against having tablets in the Chamber—and if we were to have that debate tomorrow, I would probably, for the same reasons, take the same line. But I agree with him entirely on this issue. I choose not to do certain things online, or do anything online, but that is my prerogative and my choice. The noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, is merely arguing that this is something that should be looked into. I completely accept that it is the way in which most people use things these days. Therefore, I totally agree with my noble friends Lord Forsyth and Lord Deben. There is no rhyme or reason in this, and I cannot for the life of me understand why the Government are arguing against a system that the Conservative Party felt was good enough for the selection of a candidate for London Mayor, as has already been mentioned. I think that we are really just wasting our time. My noble friend the Minister should accept the amendment, which is modest in its proposals and does not give any ultimate and absolute commitment to anything but merely makes a sensible suggestion that we should accept without Division.
Trade Union Bill — House of Lords, 2016-03-16
Topic: Civil Rights
Lucy Neville-Rolfe (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I have explained that we already have the power, and we also have the will to move in this direction. However, for the reasons I have stated, we should not agree to the review set out in the amendment. As I was saying, other countries have struggled to implement online voting successfully and sustainably. The Speaker’s commission identified 14 countries that have tried internet voting for binding elections, which included five countries—the UK, Finland, the USA, the Netherlands and Spain—which either piloted or fully adopted electronic voting and then decided to discontinue its use There is a problem here. The only country that has succeeded with a sustainable system is Estonia, and that is because its ID card system makes it unique. I met with the President recently and we had an interesting discussion about this. Of course, it is possible there because their system is different On the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, of course, the concept of a review is not new and, as I said, a lot has already been done to review the case for electronic balloting. I have spoken of the Speaker’s Commission on Digital Democracy, which published a report on 26 January last year. Obviously, the Electoral Reform Services looked at the case for e-voting for trade unions in the UK and published its findings—indeed, they were published online—and WebRoots Democracy published a report on 26 January on secure voting with contributions from global experts and academics in the electronic voting field. Therefore, we are not short of reviews Against that background and despite the excellent points made by noble Lords, I cannot agree with the amendment because it irrevocably commits the Secretary of State to press ahead with a strategy for the rollout of electronic balloting, irrespective of any problems the review finds. I have tried to explain that another review could find problems—it is not absolutely dead easy. As I have said, we have the power to permit e-balloting, and we will use it when we are convinced that all the concerns have been addressed. This is why the current legislation is framed as it is, and for good reason. I am conscious that this all sounds rather negative but, rightly, noble Lords want to know what problems prevent us agreeing to electronic balloting and I hope I have given a flavour of them. There has been a good deal of positive progress in the way technology can help to address these issues, and that is reflected in the reports I have cited I hope that I have been clear. I have listened to the case for the amendment and the case made at other stages of the Bill but, for the reasons I have given, the Government do not support the amendment and I encourage the noble Lord to withdraw it.
Trade Union Bill — House of Lords, 2016-03-16
Topic: Other
Lucy Neville-Rolfe (Conservative, Centre-right): I thank my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay for his comments. It shows the value of scrutiny in this House. If I may, I will reflect on the point about it being in writing, but this is an area where we are finding a way through on the Bill.
Trade Union Bill — House of Lords, 2016-03-16
Topic: Mixed Topics
Douglas Hogg (Conservative, Centre-right): The noble Lord advances pragmatic arguments in respect of existing contributors, but what is the argument of principle? Given that the Government may be persuaded to introduce a generous transition period, why should existing contributors be denied the opportunity to opt in, which gives them some benefits?