Brexit: Foreign and Security Policy Co-operation — House of Lords, 2016-10-20
Topic: International Affairs
Raymond Collins (Labour, Centre-left): My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, for enabling us to continue the debate we started on Tuesday. As the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, rightly said on Tuesday, "none of us has a crystal ball to predict the future with certainty" While acknowledging that we face significant challenges to peace and stability ahead, she asserted then, "that they are not ones brought about by the UK’s decision to leave the EU",—[Official Report, 18/10/16; col. 2312.] and that they will not be exacerbated by our leaving. That is the crux of what noble Lords have raised today and what this debate is fundamentally about. I think what all noble Lords seek is an assurance from the Government that they will undertake, or have undertaken, a full and proper assessment of the impact Brexit will have on the United Kingdom. We need to be satisfied that the negotiations will be governed by one overriding principle: to fully protect the interests of the United Kingdom and its people I totally agree with your Lordships’ EU Committee, as highlighted by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, that there is a middle way between micromanagement and the exclusion of Parliament. That is the role of constructive and timely comment on both the process and the substance of the negotiations. As your Lordships’ committee said, that will contribute to a greater sense of parliamentary ownership of the process, strengthening the Government’s negotiating position and increasing the likelihood that the final agreement will enjoy parliamentary and public support The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, emphasised in his introduction the development of the common foreign and security policy. In addressing our ability to maintain the UK’s influence in the development of that EU policy after Brexit, the Minister on Tuesday stressed the importance of bilateral relations. In particular, she emphasised the agreements we have with France that other noble Lords have mentioned, particularly on joint defence initiatives. But the Government could use a range of options to pursue their stated aim of a continued, "commitment to the security of our continent": through NATO; through continued participation in EU structures and operations as a third-country nation; and, as was mentioned, through bilateral relationships with EU partners. Will the Minister confirm today that no option has been ruled out in the conduct of our Brexit negotiations? That is what we need to hear in terms of effective scrutiny of those negotiations. In the debate today, noble Lords have mentioned joint operations through the common security and defence policy. Can the Minister tell us whether the Government intend to maintain the UK’s participation in such initiatives and joint operations under the umbrella of that policy, after Britain leaves the EU? These are long-term plans and initiatives. We need to understand that nothing is being ruled out. I raised on Tuesday the European Defence Agency, which helps to facilitate collaboration in the defence industry and carries out research to promote the EU’s defence capabilities. In response to a question in the other place the Defence Secretary, Sir Michael Fallon, did not comment on whether the UK would seek to participate in such areas as the EDA and EU Battlegroups after leaving the EU. Again, I think noble Lords would want to know that these matters are not being ruled out The first chief executive of the EDA, Nick Witney, has said regarding the future that, "some sort of privileged partnership between the UK and EU looks like a reasonable goal", but that the difficulties of defining it, embodying it in a treaty change and its relatively low priority, compared to untangling economic and migration issues, mean that such a partnership might not be achieved "for many years". Can the Minister tell us today what priority will be given in the negotiations to enabling the UK to continue participating in the EDA’s research, even over the period that it takes to negotiate some more formal relationship Turning to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Howell, I fear that he underestimates the problem with the EU developing its own distinct foreign and security policies without Britain’s influence. That could put it at odds with the objectives of NATO, the UK and the USA, potentially destabilising the one organisation in which we are all putting much faith and impeding its ability to perform its defence role, the policy towards Russia being a particular concern in that respect. As noble Lords have said, most of the foreign policy risks faced by the UK, such as international terrorism, Russian aggression and climate change, will continue to require international action. One issue we have not addressed much today is cross-border cybercrime A very useful report was published this week by London First, which represents the views of a wide range of business and public sector stakeholders. It set out key issues that may affect the UK’s security and, in particular, those that may arise from repeated terrorist attacks not just in the UK but against UK interests abroad. It welcomed the Government’s commitment to continue co-operation on law enforcement and counterterrorism in the negotiations, which was confirmed by the Prime Minister on her arrival in Brussels today—but by what means Like noble Lords, London First argues strongly that the UK Government should pursue as far as possible continued involvement with EU security institutions, especially Europol. No doubt many noble Lords have seen the briefing from the Law Society recommending that we continue our involvement in Europol and agencies which focus on intelligence analysis to support the operations of national law enforcement agencies in member states. An example of the options we may consider in negotiations is Norway, which has a relationship with Europol through a co-operation agreement with the EU. Any loss of Europol’s security resources and connectivity will make the UK more reliant on bilateral collaboration with member states. That would undoubtedly be more complex and time-consuming, which would increase the threat to our nation. The Minister cannot give us the definitive answer on the outcome of the negotiations, but will she confirm that no option will be ruled out? UK business benefits from the police intelligence and information that flows from participation in the umbrella organisation. The irony is that, to date, the UK has arguably been the leading contributor in the development of pan-European, non-military security policies through the EU, exerting its influence to ensure that Europe’s civilian security responses are as effective as possible. Successful UK security depends upon a successful economy, and thus the safety and security of UK business is critical to the overall UK national interest. Does the Minister agree that the UK public and private sectors should develop a national debate, especially incorporating business representatives, on the future of UK security This will be an ongoing debate. We have had two such debates this week. The most important principle is to ensure that the Government fully engage Parliament in the process so that we can ensure that negotiations are successful.