argyrotsipi/train-dataset huggingface dataset:
EU Exit: End of Transition Period — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: International Affairs
William David Wiggin (Conservative, Centre-right): How much does my right hon. Friend think the EU will lose in the event of no deal? Is not this figure not helped by senior Labour politicians suggesting that we might extend the transition period?
EU Exit: End of Transition Period — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: International Affairs
Michael Andrew Gove (Conservative, Centre-right): My hon. Friend is absolutely correct that no deal is in nobody’s interests. The fact that the First Minister of Wales or the Mayor of London are holding out the prospect of an extension to the transition period does not contribute to the concentration of minds and—to be fair to the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves)—the productive work required in order to secure a deal.
EU Exit: End of Transition Period — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Agriculture
Michael Andrew Gove (Conservative, Centre-right): The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. One of the things that the Government have always stressed is that in the event of a no-deal exit, the sectors that would be most adversely affected by tariffs would be in the agriculture sector, with red meat producers particularly hard hit. That is why we are anxious to avoid that outcome and to secure a deal. Come what may, there will be new processes, but also new markets, for producers in Orkney and Shetland. I will work with him to make sure that, in whatever eventuality, we support the high-quality producers in his constituency.
EU Exit: End of Transition Period — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Foreign Trade
Dehenna Sheridan Fareham (Conservative, Centre-right): My right hon. Friend will know that I share his vivacious optimism about Britain’s future as an independent sovereign trading nation, but the farmers of Teesdale and Weardale are understandably concerned about what happens if we get to the end of the year without an agreement. Will he reassure the House and my constituents that all is being done by our negotiators to reach that deal? Does he agree, in terms of the future of Britain’s trading policy, that our independence as a trading nation will provide great opportunities for our agricultural sector?
EU Exit: End of Transition Period — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Agriculture
Michael Andrew Gove (Conservative, Centre-right): I am grateful to my hon. Friend for attributing to me vivacity as well as optimism. I am certainly optimistic, but it is Conservative Members who were elected in the 2019 general election who provide the vivacity, including herself. She is absolutely right to raise the concerns of farmers in Teesdale and Weardale, and indeed across the north-east. As I mentioned in response to the previous question, it is red meat producers who, in the event of no deal, will most need our support, but it is also red meat producers, particularly lamb exporters and sheep farmers, who have a great deal to gain. One of the biggest consumers of lamb and sheep meat in the world is the US. At the moment, our access to the US market is restricted. It is one of many markets, including markets in the far east and the middle east, to which we could have access. My hon. Friend’s advocacy on behalf of the farming sector and on behalf of free trade shows the way to future prosperity for the constituents she serves so well.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): The hon. Member makes a really important point. Under the Bill, there are steps where prosecutors will have to pay due regard to the impact on soldiers and sailors of that type of further action We have been told that this Bill is controversial. Some have gone as far as to say that it decriminalises torture or prevents veterans receiving compensation. Both allegations are untrue. I have to question whether those making such points have actually read the Bill in full. As the former Attorney General for Northern Ireland, John Larkin QC, has recently written: "It is clearly wrong to say that the Bill would forbid prosecution of serious allegations of torture supported by evidence."
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: International Affairs
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): The hon. Member points to the statement made in the House, and the Government still stand by that. We will ensure that legislation comes forward as part of the overall package to address legacy issues in Northern Ireland.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): First, I took the decision that, if we look back at many examples of case law or challenges, the debate around torture and murder has often been about the excessive use of an action in doing something that is what a soldier may or may not think is legitimate. For example, it is an act of war to go and attack a target. It is, unfortunately, an act that a soldier may have to do, which is to use lethal force in defence. It is often a side effect or a consequence of an action that you detain people. Often, the legal debate around that has focused on whether the soldier has been excessive in that use of force. If a soldier uses an excessive amount of force in self-defence on duty, that is viewed as murder. That is where we have often seen challenges in courts around both investigations and decisions to charge What is not part of war in any way at all is sexual offences. It is not a debatable point. It is not a place where it is possible to turn on a coin and argue that there is a right and a wrong. That is why I took the view that we should exclude sexual offences from schedule 1 but in the main part of the Bill cover all other offences. It is not the case that, even after five years, someone cannot be prosecuted for torture, murder or anything else. It is absolutely clear that it is still possible to prosecute, and it is our intention, should new or compelling evidence be brought forward, to prosecute for those offences. The Bill is not decriminalising torture and it is not decriminalising murder in any way at all. I mentioned earlier the view of the former Attorney General of Northern Ireland, who is himself well practised in that type of law and an expert.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Andrew John Bower Mitchell (Conservative, Centre-right): I do think we are nearly there on this point, but my right hon. Friend knows that it is important, because it has been raised by some very senior members of the armed forces. I have talked to his excellent junior Minister, the Minister for Defence People and Veterans, my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Johnny Mercer), and we all want the lawfare that my right hon. Friend described, which is so outrageous, stopped. Mrs Thatcher brought in the Criminal Justice Act 1988, which made it clear that torture of anyone, anywhere is a criminal offence. It would be very helpful if my right hon. Friend now made it clear, in addition to his response to the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), that it is never acceptable, under any circumstance, for any act of torture to take place.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): I fully agree with my right hon. Friend: torture is not an acceptable part of what any soldier or any citizen of this country should take part in. Where former Governments, of all colours, have been found to have not upheld those standards, they have either been prosecuted or faced the consequences. No one is excluding that and no one is decriminalising it.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): First, the Bill deals with two parts of why often people are investigated. One is under civil proceedings, where they are investigated or interviewed, or involved in the inquest. Many of those personnel find themselves repeatedly interviewed, either as a suspect or, indeed, through constant summonses as a witness in an inquest. As we know from a number of cases, that has happened on multiple occasions. That is why the second part of the Bill deals with the civil route and the first part deals with the criminal bit On the criminal bit, one change is the requirement after five years for a number of thresholds to be gone through before a decision to prosecute is progressed. We think those thresholds are enough to make sure that investigators, or the prosecutor, before perhaps embarking on a repeat investigation—for example, if there has already been one—have to have regard that this is important new evidence. In my experience, investigators do not just investigate for investigation’s sake; they investigate to reach a point of prosecution. If they feel that a prosecution is unlikely, they will not pursue it. I feel that will therefore reduce the number of investigations My right hon. Friend also makes the point, in regard to the critics, that the Bill does not prevent prosecution in certain circumstances of egregious crimes committed either against humanity or our treaty obligations at all. That is really important. We will never prevent new evidence from producing a prosecution if a crime has been committed.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): I am now going to progress The second element of the first part of the Bill ensures that, when making a decision, the prosecutor must give particular weight to certain matters, such as the adverse impact of operations on our personnel and the public interest in finality where there has been a previous investigation and there is no compelling new evidence. If it is deemed that the case should proceed to trial, the third threshold requires consent before a prosecution can proceed. In England and Wales, for example, that will be from the Attorney General. In those cases, the Attorney General will be acting independently of Government, as guardian of the public interest Some groups such as Liberty have suggested that this is political interference. It is nothing of the sort. Given that the Attorney General already has decisions over prosecutions in statute ranging from the Auctions (Bidding Agreements) Act 1927 to the Theatres Act 1968, it is neither uncommon nor controversial.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): If the hon. Gentleman is going to tell us about the Advocate General for Scotland—[Interruption]—or rather, the Lord Advocate in Scotland, who also sits in the Scottish Cabinet—and his role in directing prosecutions, I will be interested to hear.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: International Affairs
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): My hon. Friend makes a substantive point, and one reason we find ourselves facing these challenges is because there is a clear conflict between international humanitarian law in some areas, and international human rights. The encroachment and growing reach of ECHR into areas of combat has created a clash, in some sense, between things such as the Geneva convention and individual human rights. That is why when the authors wrote the ECHR, they included some of those carve-outs as a way of accommodating the international laws under which they had been operating in the mass conflict of the second world war. Indeed, when the Defence Committee was chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), it picked up on that very real clash, which is hard to resolve. In my view, some of the problems with lawfare is that people are exploiting that clash for financial gain. It is easy to hide behind a humanitarian law on one day and a human rights law on another, and we have a duty to try to make a difference We are not going as far as many countries under the jurisdiction of ECHR. Other countries in Europe have a statute of limitations on criminal offences. Germany and France both have a number of criminal statutes that are statutes of limitations. Other countries also do that, or have amnesties, but we are not going that far. We are trying to resolve that clash and see how we can ensure a proper threshold, so that there are no vexatious investigations and our men and women do not constantly find themselves the subject of them.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): Well, he should be. Only a solicitor would argue the toss between a barrister and a solicitor; for us mere soldiers, they are learned gentlemen or women in this context. I am afraid that he is absolutely wrong in his assertion. Nowhere in the Bill prevents a prosecution for torture either under five years or over five years. If he can show me where in the Bill there is a decriminalisation or tolerance of torture, I would be delighted to hear which clause or subsection decriminalises torture. Will he show me the statute?
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: International Affairs
Thomas Georg John Tugendhat (Conservative, Centre-right): The right hon. Gentleman must recognise—I am sure he knows this well, having spoken to his opposite numbers in socialist or left-wing parties around Europe—that many other countries follow this system of derogation and have national caveats. France itself has a reserve of emergency powers it can use to defend its troops against vexatious or inappropriate litigation. Is he seriously suggesting that France is not a law-based state, or that it is in some way immoral and has no right to sit as one of the P5? Surely he is not suggesting that.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Ben Lobban Wallace (Conservative, Centre-right): I listen with interest to what my hon. Friend says and to his example of unique circumstances. The hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) made the point that this Bill makes some people less or more equal before the law—that it was an unfair application—but it does not prevent anyone from being prosecuted for a crime that they have committed, nor does it introduce special defences for people, so that some of these offences allow them to have an excuse. All it does is ask a prosecutor to have exceptional regard for the circumstances that those concerned may find themselves in and also, where an investigation has already happened, to think about the level of new evidence that should be applicable.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Thomas Georg John Tugendhat (Conservative, Centre-right): I agree with my right hon. Friend, and the important point about the Bill is that it recognises the difference between a crime and an error. We all know that crimes should be prosecuted, and we all know that the difference between a crime and an error is a difference of understanding and, on some occasions, circumstance. It is not necessarily a crime for a missile, sadly, to go astray and kill civilians. It can be an error; it may be a terrible, regrettable error; it may be an error that we should learn from a thousand times. But it cannot always be a crime, otherwise the invasion of Normandy could never have happened, because if it was always a crime for civilians to die in combat, the troops could not have prepared that battlefield to land on those beaches If that was a crime, it would always be a crime to use force in situations where we cannot be absolutely certain of the outcome of that force. Of course, that is never possible, because the reality is that if we put such blocks on any use of force, what we are saying is that force can never be used.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: International Affairs
Thomas Georg John Tugendhat (Conservative, Centre-right): Is my right hon. Friend aware that it is not only the United Kingdom facing an issue with the extraterritoriality of the ECHR? The French Conseil d’État —in which I must declare an interest, as my wife is a member—has also been investigating this, as has the German court, because this extraterritoriality was never envisioned by the signatories in the ’50s, nor was it envisioned by the then Prime Minister in the ’90s.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Robert Alexander Stewart (Conservative, Centre-right): I have the greatest respect for the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) and I accept what he said, but I emphasise the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South West (Stuart Anderson) just made. He made the first reference to the people who are really affected by what we are talking about—that is, the young men and women who are normally charged. Let us remember, colleagues, how bloody awful it is to undergo some of these investigations time and again. Let us remember how dreadful it was when we saw those ambulance-chasing lawyers going after units and individuals in Iraq, and later in Afghanistan.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Thomas Georg John Tugendhat (Conservative, Centre-right): I appreciate the hon. Lady’s point about the confusion of post-conflict societies and therefore about the statute of limitations, but would she not accept that this goes both ways? There is also the difficulty people can have in defending themselves when evidence has been lost, burned or destroyed in exactly those post-conflict societies, and therefore time works both ways on this question. This is essential for the defence in justice, because justice must not only be for the prosecution, but for the defence.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: International Affairs
Thomas Georg John Tugendhat (Conservative, Centre-right): I am very pleased to hear the hon. Gentleman talking about this because it matters so much to many of us. But there is a difference, surely, between overseas operations and domestic operations that he has touched on. The very nature of what we are dealing with, with citizens of countries from around the world rather than citizens of the United Kingdom, means that the legal framework must be different. While I appreciate that he is absolutely right that the Bill should go further, or indeed the Northern Ireland Secretary should bring forward a Bill that covers similar issues, does he not recognise that it at least addresses part of the lacuna, even though not the whole?
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax (Conservative, Centre-right): I will not give way, because 70 Members wish to speak, and the hon. Gentleman has had plenty of time to say his bit The point I am trying to make is that this man did not get away with it. He was convicted for four years of his life. He paid for a terrible mistake in the heat of battle after a long tour. When the circumstances were investigated by the lawyers at the Appeal Court and the experiences that he and others had been through came out, and the psychiatrists had their say, it was discovered that this man had been pushed to a point that none of us in this place can understand Next time—and there sadly will be another time—we send our men and women into harm’s way, we must remember what we are sending them to. This Bill, which I totally support, is being introduced to protect them from new aspects of law that our forebears in world war two and other battles did not have to cope with. I shall be voting with the Government tonight. I thank the Minister and the Secretary of State for bringing this Bill to the House, and I look forward to the Northern Ireland Bill coming to the House before Christmas.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
John Henry Hayes (Conservative, Centre-right): On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Lady may have inadvertently misled the House, and I would not want her to do that. She made the point just now that the Bill meant that serving personnel could not be prosecuted for war crimes. That is fundamentally untrue, as the Minister no doubt will confirm. If she withdrew that remark, we could all make some progress.
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
Christopher Mark Clarkson (Conservative, Centre-right): I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, but if they were taken into account and taken seriously, we would not need legislation such as this What I described should dispel suggestions that the Bill will create immunity from prosecutions. The Bill only creates a test of exceptionality for prosecutions after a period of five years has expired. What is exceptional within the scope of the Bill is determined by an independent prosecutor, the Attorney General, who is still accountable to this place. It is clearly wrong to say that the Bill would forbid prosecutions of allegations of torture supported by evidence The Government are seeking with the Bill to provide some reassurance to service personnel that they are unlikely to be prosecuted many years on from events, where no new evidence has come forward. To paraphrase my right hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat), we the powerful must protect the strong—
Overseas Operations (Service Personnel And Veterans) Bill — House of Commons, 2020-09-23
Topic: Law and Crime
John Luther Mercer (Conservative, Centre-right): No I will not give way Any allegation that has a very low quality of evidence will clearly be investigated. There is no time bar on murder. There is no time bar on any of the offences in the Bill. That is a low bar that we are asking prosecutors to get over. Unnecessary? Seriously? Say that to Lance-Corporal Brian Wood, who I was with yesterday. When his kid comes home from school, he goes upstairs and cries in his room. Why? He says, "Daddy, at school they’re all saying that you’re a murderer." Every single one of those allegations was found to be completely false and generated simply to build the financial position of solicitors The shadow Defence Secretary made some comments about the Secretary of State. Let us get this absolutely clear and into the open. Many colleagues here have been very quick to declare interests seeking associations with the armed forces, but not with the lawyers who pursued them. The shadow Secretary of State failed to declare his interests when referencing the much criticised law firm Thompsons Solicitors, from which he received £2,000 for his direct mail campaign literature in 2017. In fact, since 2001 Labour and its MPs have received £229,000, including £80,000 from solicitors Leigh Day. It is all on the record, including tens of thousands of pounds to the shadow Attorney General, the right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry).