Brexit: Foreign and Security Policy Co-operation — House of Lords, 2016-10-20
Topic: International Affairs
Roger John Liddle (Labour, Centre-left): My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, on introducing this very timely debate. There was not a word in his speech with which I would disagree. I also congratulate my noble friend Lord Collins on having introduced a debate on this subject earlier in the week. I am very sorry that I was not able to take part in that but it is a subject of vital importance I agree and have always agreed with the noble Lord, Lord Howell, that the EU needs substantial reform but it would have been a lot better for us to be doing that from the inside than from out. In the months of depression that I have suffered since 23 June, nothing has got me away from the terrible thought that this is the greatest foreign policy disaster that Britain has undergone since appeasement in the 1930s in terms of weakening our influence in the world. I hope that I live long enough to see the guilty men held to account The Brexiteers seem to live in a world of illusion about Britain’s role in the world. I would describe their position as one of attempting to revive the Anglosphere, rebuild a close special relationship with the United States and strengthen our relations in trading and other areas with the old dominions and the Commonwealth, along with a view that we can have enormous influence as a result of the power of the English-speaking world. I am extremely sceptical about this proposition of the Anglosphere. For me, the only conceivable role for Britain in the world is to continue to seek the closest possible working relationship with our allies in the European Union. On Britain and the United States, Macmillan recognised 60 years ago that the only way to sustain the transatlantic relationship was through Britain becoming a member of the Common Market and having influence in the gathering process of European integration. When Dean Acheson said that we had lost an empire and not yet found a role, influence in Europe was the only conceivable role for Britain. I find it very difficult to believe that we can strengthen our relationship with the United States outside the EU. My old boss Tony Blair used to talk a lot about Britain being the transatlantic bridge. I always remember that at one meeting I attended, Gerhard Schroeder said, "The trouble with your bridge, Tony, is that the traffic is all one way". Of course, there was truth in that. The lesson of Iraq was that the British public did not like the idea of playing second fiddle to US foreign policy because, regrettably, it was demonstrated that Britain had very little influence in securing a successful outcome of that operation In the US election, we see the United States withdrawing into itself, unable to address the failure of the West in the horrors of Syria. It is shameful that we are allowing all this to go on. Today Mrs May should be going to Europe to bang the Council table about the need for common action for common purposes in our common interest. Syria affects Europe far more than the United States, yet she is going to go to talk to people at the dinner about Brexit. This is shameful We need a united Europe to face up to the gathering menace of Putin. Some people in my own party have to face up to that as well. I would like to hear some critical words about Mr Putin’s actions from my party leader On the relationship with the wider Anglosphere outside the United States, the Commonwealth has very diverse economic and security interests nowadays. Liam Fox may be right that the Australians will be keen to do a trade deal with us if and when we are able to do a trade deal with them, but I remember that when I was in Brussels the Australians used to look to Britain’s presence in the European Union as the most effective way of protecting their economic interests. A British-Australian trade deal will be useful, but it will not play that central role All our international effort will clearly go into trying to negotiate trade agreements. This will be much more difficult than people think as there is a gathering protectionist mood in the world, and we will have to pay a price for trade agreements. There will be a loss of much of our agricultural industry as tariffs come down. If we are going to do a free trade agreement with India and have a closer relationship with it, we will have to accept far more free movement of Indians to Britain under mode 4 of the GATT services deal This brings me to the view of Britain as having lots of soft power. I take what the noble Lord, Lord Howell, said about free movement. There is a lot of nonsense talked about the choice there, but you cannot be a global nation with global influence if you have as a firm policy objective reducing immigration to the tens of thousands. If we have that as our objective we will never be able to attract people to our universities and cultural institutions so that Britain will be a centre of global talent. If the Government are serious about a global vision, they have to rethink their immigration policy Using soft power depends on leverage. I remember the G8 summit in 2005, where Britain played a big role. How did we play that role? Because on subjects such as climate change and the development deal for Africa, we were able to mobilise our partners in the EU in order to exert influence. We will not be able to do that outside unless we have the closest relationship with our partners, and that is not going to be achieved by Boris Johnson insulting his way around the capitals of Europe. For that reason, we have to wake up and recognise that we are in a weak position as a result of Brexit, and form the closest possible partnership with our EU allies.