Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place) (England) Regulations 2020 — House of Lords, 2020-09-18
Topic: Health
James Bethell (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I thank all those involved in this debate for a really important contribution. This face-coverings debate is always a very tough one. It is tough because in many of our areas of response to Covid we have really clear evidence-based decision making. In the area of lockdowns, we have a huge amount of information from the ONS, REACT and our test and trace system. With the clinical trials of our therapeutics, we have incredible data from patients and from recovery. We have a numbers-driven approach to a lot of the response on Covid, but in this area of masks—there is no two ways about it—it is heavily contested. The proof points on whether masks make a difference are not proven. Different groups have different perspectives. Therefore, we are left to rely on principles of common sense, taste and preference, and those are not the principles on which we can run an effective epidemiological response to this horrible disease Our epidemiological response has two levels. The first and by far the most important level is reliance on hygiene and social distancing—the "Hands, Face, Space" protocol. That is the one that will beat the virus and it is the one advocated by the CMO, and the CMOs from all the nations of Britain, and it is our primary front in our battle against Covid. The second tier is test, trace and isolate, which is effective and important for surveillance, and is proving to be impactful in breaking the chain of transmission Turning to face coverings, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. Like my noble friend Lord Blencathra, I particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours. He has provided evidence-based commentary and been an advocate, in very reasonable terms, for the wearing of face coverings and we are grateful for his characteristically energetic contributions. I hope to answer his specific questions in turn. The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, put it well. We cannot lean on clinical trials and scientific modelling to provide clear-cut solutions on this one. Where does that leave us? Since 11 May, we have brought in a proportionate and evolving strategy on masks. It has been brought in in a way which does not compete with social distancing and hygiene as the Government’s priorities. The messages we have put forward on face coverings are designed so that they do not confuse the public about their importance. My noble friend Lady Sanderson put it really well. We cannot give the public the idea that wearing a mask is in any way a defence against the disease or an effective substitute for social distancing. If we did that, we would be blowing up our first line of defence Turning to noble Lords’ questions, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, made a strong point about valves. These are typically used in medical PPE, where they are highly regulated, but he has observed, as I have, their clumsy use in retail face coverings. Any face covering that fails to stop the transmission of droplets is not achieving its basic objective and would therefore be in breach of our guidelines, which are clear. We will look into whether further communication is needed on this point Many noble Lords, including my noble friend Lady Hooper asked about compliance. As my noble friend Lord Hayward, the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, and others have stated convincingly, the ONS statistics on compliance do not completely align with one’s personal experience. We therefore took the decision to strengthen the penalty system for face-covering regulations to discourage non-compliance, in particular for repeat offenders. The laddering of fines which was brought into force on 28 August has coincided with a massive increase in the public’s use of face masks, or at least that is my perception As several noble Lords have rightly argued, it is important that people who are exempt are not accosted or abused in any way. I welcome the appeals made in this Chamber for "No mask" badges for those who are exempt. I celebrate the fact that a design for such a badge is published on GOV.UK A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, and the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, have accused the Government of mixed messages. We have worked hard to communicate well on this, but we are competing with our principal messages of social distancing and good hand hygiene. For that reason, we have not put the marketing and messaging about face masks at the top of our messages A number of noble Lords asked about recent research. The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, is entirely right. In August, the WHO updated its guidance on, "specific considerations for the use of non-medical masks, also known as fabric masks, by children as a means for source control in the context of the current … pandemic." It also advises on the use of medical masks for children under certain conditions. We are seeking to follow that guidance In August, SAGE SPI-B reviewed evidence which suggested that mandating face coverings was one of the key behaviours to help deliver Covid-safe large events in large venues. This is in conjunction with other behaviours, including regular handwashing and social distancing Other research has been published by the Health and Safety Executive for the benefit of employers. This includes research on the effectiveness of surgical masks against a range of airborne particles and older research to help inform greater compliance with wearing face masks. Further research is being funded by UKRI about the effectiveness of face coverings and face masks and the factors underpinning compliant behaviour with face-covering regulations. Emerging findings are published on the UKRI Coronavirus Hub. I encourage all those with an interest in the area to keep track of that source of evidence In September, SAGE reviewed evidence which suggested mitigation of the risk of transmission of the virus in higher education settings through measures including face coverings. This is particularly in educational settings and areas of universities where social distancing may be more difficult In response to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, about testing, let me clear that we are by no means at the end of our ramping-up of testing. His testimony about his experiences in Pendle is powerful, and I would be glad to meet the noble Lord to discuss them My noble friend Lady Hooper raised an important point about ensuring that guidance for face coverings is clear and communicated to all. I reassure her that we will publish accessible guidance, including in other languages, which will cover how, when and where to wear them safely The noble Baroness, Lady Massey, asked specifically about the use of face coverings in schools. The Department for Education has updated its guidance on wearing face coverings in schools following both the WHO and SAGE statements on children. The Government’s priority is to get children back to schools and colleges safely The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, asked about a potential Covid-19 vaccine and when it might be possible. I reassure her that the department, along with NHSI and PHE, is currently planning for the delivery of any successful vaccine candidate We keep the area of face coverings under close review. The public mood on this has shifted considerably. We are aware of a more nuanced understanding about the use of face coverings by many in the public. We will revisit this subject regularly. This has been an informative and powerful debate. I hope therefore that the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, feels able to withdraw her amendment.