argyrotsipi/train-dataset huggingface dataset:
Palestine: Recognition — House of Lords, 2015-01-29
Topic: International Affairs
John Cope (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, when we discussed this part of the world on 30 October, I explained my involvement with Palestine resulting from my wife’s family having settled in Jerusalem for Christian reasons 150 years ago. I have, therefore, been visiting Palestine for over 45 years. I have seen for myself the problems on the ground and I have seen them get worse. I believe it is time—indeed it is overdue—that the UK recognises Palestine as a country. We all know that the 1967 borders need land swaps by agreement, but that is still the internationally agreed border. Some countries with disputed borders have long been recognised as states, including Israel itself. Many other countries without our historic responsibilities for the problems she faces, which my noble friend Lord Steel referred to in his excellent and moderate introduction, have recognised Palestine I believe recognition by the UK would help towards a settlement. The two-state solution needs two states to negotiate and agree. The PLO committed itself to recognising Israel over 20 years ago, in 1993. However, Israel not only still refuses to recognise Palestine but builds all over it. As has been said, settlement building is against international law. It is highly aggressive and provocative, particularly just now around Jerusalem. In this dispute, the extremists on each side constantly quote the words and actions of the extremists on the other side and squeeze out the moderates in the middle. Like my noble friend, I believe that recognition would give the Palestinian moderates a real boost and encourage the Israeli moderates to try and get their Government to negotiate properly with their neighbours. Many Israelis, like those quoted by my noble friend, recognise the truth that aggressive, illegal occupation will not work in the end. It is not the road to peace. The world cannot accept, and has not accepted, that a state can steal other people’s land by force and build over it For the UK, recognition would mean that at last we had tried to redeem our historic pledges, in so far as we still can, to respect the interests of the pre-existing inhabitants in creating what was called the national home for the Jewish people. I sincerely hope that on 17 March the very difficult Israeli electoral system will result in a long-sighted Government who realise that without a two-state solution Israel will never be at peace with its neighbours. Meanwhile, let us show our support for the two-state solution by recognising the second state involved in it.
Palestine: Recognition — House of Lords, 2015-01-29
Topic: International Affairs
David Gold (Conservative, Centre-right): I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Steel, not only on securing this debate but on finding a neat way of dealing with the difficult issue of how you negotiate with a terrorist organisation. One thing is sure: if we recognise Palestine as a state now, there will not be any need to negotiate with the terrorists because they will not negotiate with Israel or any other country seeking to broker a settlement. Negotiation inevitably means compromise. Why should the terrorists compromise? They will have achieved their main goal, without giving away anything. They will have statehood without conditions and without compromise, and, most of all, without having to recognise that the State of Israel exists and is entitled so to do. All they need to do is sit back, set off a few more rockets and wait until the UN resolves to give them even more Acknowledging that Israel exists and is entitled to exist has been the major stumbling block previously when the Palestinians have been offered a peaceful way to achieve their own state. They were offered and rejected statehood three times. The first occasion was, as the noble Baroness, Lady Ramsay, said, in November 1947, when by Resolution 181 the UN called for the creation of both a Jewish and a Palestinian state. The second was in the summer of 2000, when Yasser Arafat rejected the Barak peace plan. That plan offered the Palestinians all of Gaza, most of the West Bank and no Israeli control over the border with Jordan or the adjacent Jordan Valley. There was a small Israeli annexation around three settlement blocs, but this was balanced by an equivalent area of Israeli territory that would have been ceded to the Palestinians. In 2008, Prime Minister Olmert extended the Barak proposal by offering to split Jerusalem. President Abbas rejected this, too In its 1988 charter, Hamas, which controls Gaza, called for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine in place of Israel and the Palestinian territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel. That demand has never changed. On that issue, Hamas has been and remains uncompromising All here want peace between Palestinians and Israelis. Most would support the two-state solution, but this is not the way to achieve it. Just as we are debating here, in this mother of Parliaments, the proposition—
Palestine: Recognition — House of Lords, 2015-01-29
Topic: International Affairs
David Gold (Conservative, Centre-right): I am coming to the future right now. As we are debating here, in the mother of Parliaments, the proposition that we should unilaterally recognise Palestine as a state, I challenge those supporting this resolution to persuade their friends to reconvene the Palestinian Parliament—the future is in the Palestinian Legislative Council, which has not met since the Fatah-Hamas dispute in 2007—and table a similar resolution, that the Palestinians should recognise the State of Israel and its right permanently to exist. However, this is Alice in Wonderland. We all know that such a proposition is fanciful, and that it could never happen. I apologise for my unparliamentary language, but let us get real and acknowledge that, far from making progress, recognising a Palestinian state now would set the peace process back indefinitely Like the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, I want to look forward. In this House and in the other place there are many friends both of Israel and of the Palestinians. If we use those friendships and that influence to persuade both sides to resume negotiations, we will be giving peace a far greater chance than through one-sided, unhelpful resolutions that will have the opposite effect, of setting the process backwards.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: Government Operations
Nigel Lawson (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I give my full support to the amendment that the noble Lord, Lord Butler, has just moved. He pointed to the names of noble Lords who have put their names to this amendment, all of them former Permanent Secretaries to the Treasury, Cabinet Secretaries or, in some cases, both. In all my 23 years as a Member of your Lordships’ House, I cannot remember this ever occurring before, and it may well be that it is unprecedented. There is a reason for that I pay tribute personally to the noble Lord, Lord Butler. I have known him for many years. When I first became Chancellor, he was Permanent Secretary in charge of public expenditure at the Treasury, a duty that he fulfilled impeccably and has done over the years. We are very lucky in our senior Civil Service. He has been an outstanding public servant in a number of ways over a large number of years, and we ignore what he says at our peril The amendment is fundamentally about good government. I do not know whether this is still the case, but in my day the Treasury used to be known as "the central department". It was called that because it had a responsibility that went beyond the question of the management of the economy, in so far as one is capable of doing so; it also had a responsibility for good government. We in this House also have an overarching and overriding responsibility for good government. However well intentioned, the Bill, for the reasons outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Butler, is the antithesis of good government. It is gesture politics. Good government really matters, and the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Butler, goes to the heart of that issue. I warmly support it.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: International Affairs
David Arthur Russell Howell (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I rise to support this amendment for non-Treasury reasons, which may be a relief to noble Lords. We all know that the Treasury is full of very clever people, but frankly the Treasury is not always right and therefore there would have to be good reasons, other than the very fine reasons put forward by noble Lords who have already spoken, for urging that there should be an extra annual check on this programme and target My reason is simply that other, more effective, ways of promoting overseas development, eradicating poverty and meeting development goals are emerging all the time. The concept of ODA was invented 30 or 40 years ago, possibly more, and many new ideas have developed for promoting development and for contributing to development in more effective ways since then. The truth is that in looking at this Bill and the idea of the 0.7%, your Lordships are really dealing with an old agenda. These were fashionable views 20 or 30 years ago. Aid and development techniques have moved on rapidly Official development assistance—the ODA concept that we are dealing with—is rapidly becoming irrelevant. The complex challenges the world is now facing require a radically different financing model, one that requires a comprehensive approach to financing, embracing all sources of public and private finance available to developing countries. Tying the development effort unconditionally and without annual review into an "ODA-able" programme is bound to divert resources from far more productive ways of helping the poorest and encouraging development in today’s conditions One of the major contributions developing countries need is peace and security through military assistance, techniques and training, none of which is "ODA-able". We are deliberately limiting our capacity to help the development process in the conditions of the 21st century, so the case for annual review and revision by the Treasury to keep our development spending programmes up to date and effective seems unanswerable.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: International Affairs
John MacGregor (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I am very much aware of ex-Treasury Ministers speaking, but nevertheless I want strongly to reinforce the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Butler. Before I go on to my arguments, I state for the record that I wholly support the commitment and proud record of the UK on humanitarian and development aid. We are one of the world leaders. I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Davies, that it has to be enshrined in law to make that point, because our record and the level of spending to which we commit ourselves demonstrate that. This amendment in no way detracts from that I shall make four points in favour of this amendment, and I shall repeat very briefly what the noble Lord, Lord Butler, said. It all stems from my years of experience in dealing with public expenditure, in particular as Chief Secretary when the noble Lord, Lord Butler, was leading the programme in the Treasury under my noble friend Lord Lawson as Chancellor.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: Macroeconomics
Mark Schreiber (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I am a mere observer of government over quite a long time. Obviously, we all support the 0.7% target and the whole gesture of telling the world that we intend to stick to it. However, you cannot translate a gesture literally into statute like this. The way that it is being done shoots an arrow straight into the heart of good government. The Treasury system of controlling spending is a complicated and sophisticated one but one that, in my view, has done very well The last big change to it was in the 1970s. At that time, public spending was based on the old Plowden system of allocating resources, which effectively pre-empted decisions. The House of Commons was, again and again, asked to vote supplementary estimates, which it did with virtually no discussion. The whole thing descended into total chaos and there was a major economic crisis. That was then changed to the present system, with cash limits and proper scrutiny of each proposal, by the great Leo Pliatzky, who was then the Permanent Secretary in charge of spending. That was based on the system of cash-flow management used in the private sector. Until cash-flow management came into force, an awful lot of perfectly good companies went bust because cash flow was out of control. I do not believe we can change the principle of proper control of public spending for one particular thing, however desirable and however much we support it. That is why I support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Butler.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: International Affairs
John Dawson Eccles (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I speak as somebody who was part of the aid programme for a number of years with the Commonwealth Development Corporation and who was subjected to Treasury discipline. At the time, in today’s money we were responsible for about £3 billion of assets. Under the statutory arrangements of the day, we were partly responsible to the Foreign Office and partly to the ODA. The ODA arranged the monitoring meetings at which we would account for how we were getting on with the income and expenditure related to £3 billion of assets. In the run-up to the meeting, the discussions we had within CDC were all about what the Treasury official would ask us in the meeting which followed. From our point of view, in formal terms, the Treasury official had no right to be there, but of course the Treasury has a way of being where it wants to be.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: Macroeconomics
Michael Bruce Forsyth (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I will make a brief point in response to the point that was made, and the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Davies. It would appear that some noble Lords are under a misapprehension about what the Bill does. All it does is require the Secretary of State to have a target of 0.7%, and where under Clause 2 he or she has established that target, they have to make a statement to Parliament if they have not met the target. Clause 2(3) says that a statement made, "must explain why the 0.7% target has not been met in the report year and, if relevant, refer to the effect of one or more of the following", which are, in paragraphs (a) to (c), "economic circumstances and, in particular, any substantial change in gross national income … fiscal circumstances and, in particular, the likely impact of meeting the target on taxation, public spending and public borrowing … circumstances arising outside the United Kingdom" The noble Lord, Lord Davies, thinks that that is a flag, but it is more of a dish-cloth. All it does is to say, "This target is desirable, but if it’s not met, you’ve got to give a statement to Parliament, and these are the range of reasons" Circumstances outside the United Kingdom could be anything whatever. There could be a crisis in euroland or a whole range of things such as difficulties in Ukraine. The Bill does not impose an absolute statutory duty to spend 0.7%, as has been suggested by some noble Lords; it simply imposes a duty to tell Parliament if this has not been done and to give a reason for that. What it does do, however, is to mess up the procedures by which our country has accountability for public expenditure and to confuse the fiscal year with the financial year, and it does so because it is a flag-waving Bill in terms of meeting an international target. Those of us in this House who are seriously concerned about getting money to poor people in poor countries, and ensuring that that money is spent wisely, ought to support this amendment. Far from weakening the Bill, it would strengthen it as it would bring the Treasury into the process from day one and avoid the situation whereby the Secretary of State can say, "I didn’t meet the target because the economy wasn’t right and the Treasury wasn’t too happy". This amendment would strengthen the Bill and preserve the integrity of our financial control.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: International Affairs
David Arthur Russell Howell (Conservative, Centre-right): I am extremely grateful to my noble friend. Before she sits down, will she address the point that the noble Lord, Lord Reid, made, and which I tried to make, about outcomes? Will she comment on the fact that ODA and "ODA-able" expenditure is of less relevance in promoting development and overseas assistance to eradicate poverty than it was in the past? That is a rather important consideration on which I would value her views.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: Macroeconomics
Norman Stewart Hughson Lamont (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I support the amendments in this group, which give effect to the target being achieved over a five-year rather than an annual period. I do so because I believe that that would give much needed flexibility in meeting the target. If there were flexibility, that would lessen what some of us perceive as the perverse incentive of the target—rushing projects towards the end of a year in order to meet the target within a year. It is much more likely that the money will be more effectively spent if that happens over a period of years The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, has already rather anticipated these arguments. He said that—this was his reason for voting as he did on the previous amendment —he felt that the target of 0.7% of GDP gave greater certainty. That was, to some extent, supported by the arguments of my noble friend the Minister. However, I am deeply puzzled by the argument that having a target of 0.7% creates certainty or will give greater confidence about how the money will be spent. Meeting the target of GNI or GDP will not be that easy. It would be easy if we were certain what GNI and GDP were going to be. However, as everybody knows, economic data are subject to constant revisions. There is uncertainty about the future during the year when you are trying to determine what your target is a percentage of and you have to rely on economic forecasts. However, there is not just uncertainty about the future; there is uncertainty about the present and—dare I say it?—about the past. These statistics are constantly being revised. Noble Lords will recall our famous double-dip recession—there was great excitement on that side of the House that it was occurring. A few months later it had been revised out of existence by the statisticians.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: International Affairs
David Arthur Russell Howell (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, this amendment, like the last one, is about more than public expenditure control, important though that is. It is, as my noble friend has just emphasised, about flexibility. Why is there an essential need for flexibility? Because the fundamental views about the relationship between ODA, development and the eradication of poverty are changing fundamentally all the time—and certainly will change radically over a five-year period The worry of many of us who have worked for years in development and overseas aid issues—almost half a century in my case—is that the promotion and thinking behind this Bill, and behind the reluctance to have more flexibility, is blind to the entirely new thinking that has been developed in the OECD and other areas about the way in which development assistance should be contributed by the richer countries of the world. The concept of what is called "country programmable aid" has now been introduced. This is generally recognised to be a far more effective measure and a real contribution to aid from richer to poorer countries than the old ODA definition. The other very powerful new tool that has come along is impact investment, which would not be included under ODA at all because there is no grant element in it, and it would have to have a grant element to be ODA It is sad that we should be ignoring flexibility and insisting on a rigidity that will exclude development of the most effective new instruments for the eradication of poverty and for helping poor people and development processes throughout the world. That is why this amendment, like the last one, would give flexibility and help in our aid efforts and not hinder them.
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: Law and Crime
John Dawson Eccles (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, Clause 3(2) states: "Accordingly, the fact that the duty in section 1 has not been, or will or may not be, complied with does not affect the lawfulness of anything done, or omitted to be done, by any person" It seems to me that this means that the promoter of the Bill recognises that there has to be some flexibility. If this clause does not provide flexibility, I am not sure what it is for. I would be grateful if I could be told how I am expected to explain this in the bar of the Black Bull, if I am asked, without the other members in the bar of the Black Bull saying, "Oh well, that is typical political behaviour. Now you see it, now you don’t. Now you’re going to do it, now you’re not. All you do is put a provision in a Bill and then in an Act of Parliament which lets you completely off the hook".
International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill — House of Lords, 2015-02-27
Topic: International Affairs
Michael Bruce Forsyth (Conservative, Centre-right): I have to tell him that I can think of better things to do on a Friday morning. He keeps referring to an annual target, and it is true that the Bill provides for one. The target that was adopted by the UN is that: "Each economically advanced country will progressively increase its official development assistance to the developing countries and will exert its best efforts to reach a minimum net amount of 0.7% of its gross national product at market prices by the middle of the Decade" That, by the way, was in 1975. It makes no mention whatever of having to do that each and every year.