Brexit: Foreign and Security Policy Co-operation — House of Lords, 2016-10-20
Topic: International Affairs
Annabel Goldie (Conservative, Centre-right): My Lords, I thank all the noble Lords who contributed to this important and constructive debate. Many illuminating points have emerged The Government have made it clear that, as we leave the EU, we will not turn our back on the world. The UK remains a permanent member of the UN Security Council, the second-largest contributor to NATO and a leading member of the G7, the G20 and the Commonwealth. We take these responsibilities seriously. That underpins the fact that we will continue to be a strong and influential European voice on the world stage, promoting and defending global peace and security Nor will we be leaving Europe. We cannot geographically. We are part of Europe. There are a great many areas in which our interests and those of our European neighbours will continue to coincide. Foreign and security policy is one of these areas. We share the same challenges, and it is in all our interests to continue co-operating on them as closely as possible It is important to stress that the UK has constructive relationships with all EU states on a bilateral level, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned. That is a very healthy situation. We also have important relationships throughout the EU. France is a particularly good example. I referred to it earlier in the week and make no apology to referring to it again as it illustrates the point well. We work with France in a wide range of fields, not just on foreign and security policy, but also on defence, energy, migration, transport and trade. We also have strong relationships with European states which are not members of the EU, such as Norway and Switzerland. When we leave the EU, we will not step back from these relationships or from the co-operative relations we have with existing EU states, EU enlargement states and other countries in Europe, such as Serbia, Ukraine and Georgia. It will be in our mutual interest to strengthen them The UK is currently a major contributor to EU foreign and security policy. Our input ranges from the political expertise of our diplomatic network to our military engagement in CSDP missions and from our support for EU development aid to our contributions to the EU’s intelligence and situation centre. I remind noble Lords that our defence budget is the second-largest in NATO after that of the US and the largest in Europe, and we have committed to maintain defence spending at 2% of GDP. Our assets are used to great effect to support EU activity. Some noble Lords mentioned Operation Sophia, which has been successful and is helping to tackle illegal migration and to stem the flow of weapons to terrorists, particularly Daesh, in Libya Our contribution to the strategic direction of the EU’s foreign and security policy is also important. A number of noble Lords rightly raised this because our shared security challenges, together with the UK’s strong contribution to EU foreign and security policy, mean that it would be in all our interests for the UK to maintain close security co-operation with the EU after we leave. Defining the way we co-operate with EU partners and the EU as an institution on this issue in future will be an important element to be considered as we exit. This will include defining how the UK will interact with the EU’s common foreign and security policy and common security and defence policy There are many other specific questions we need to consider, such as our future interaction with the EU on sanctions policy and overseas development. This area of policy is a topic of great interest to EU member states, as well as other key partners around the world, and we will therefore need to have detailed discussions with EU partners in due course to understand what kind of relationship would meet our mutual interests. A range of options could be envisaged, from ceasing work with the EU as a foreign and security policy actor entirely, to retaining a close and influential relationship with the EU’s CFSP and CSDP. A close relationship would be possible in principle—provided it can be achieved in a way that delivers mutual benefits I will now try to deal with the contributions made today, and in the time available see whether I can make some effort to respond to them. I will deal first with the very eloquent contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, when he opened the debate. He raised a number of important points, and the ones I particularly noted down related specifically to the CFSP and CSDP. He posed the question of whether, if we withdraw, we become an outsider—I think that was the word used. I would very much hope that the mutuality of interest, because of the challenges confronting Europe, means anything but that. We have that big defence budget and are right at the heart of defence, which is why we will constructively explore ways in which we might work with the EU in the future to mutual benefit and advantage. Our role in defence and international diplomacy, to which the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, referred, is of course cemented and underpinned by one of the largest and most influential diplomatic networks in the world. You can never disconnect defence from diplomatic endeavour and activity My noble friend Lord Howell, in a very thoughtful speech, deployed a most welcome element of pragmatism and insight. Although alert to the challenges, he identified opportunities for the United Kingdom to work outside of but with the EU to improve the EU approach to defence, given the challenges currently emerging within the EU itself The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, referred to his anxiety about an "Anglosphere" emerging. As a proud Scot who voted to remain in the EU, I do not want an Anglosphere—it sounds absolutely ghastly to me—but as a proud citizen of the United Kingdom, I want our global influence in terms of diplomacy, defence and economic reach to be the building block for new relationships both with countries in the EU and with those outside it My compatriot, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, to whom it is always a pleasure to listen, graciously acknowledged the importance of this debate in demonstrating the role that Parliament can play, which was a very important point to make. He raised a number of interesting hypotheses on which I cannot comment in detail. I see him reaching forward in his seat with anticipation, and although it is not my desire to disappoint him, I am bound to, because the comment that he seeks would be premature at this stage, and if I tried to make it I should get into very hot water—not a prospect I relish. The noble Lord also mentioned Gibraltar. We will never enter into arrangements under which the people of Gibraltar would pass under the sovereignty of another state against their wishes. I can give him that assurance The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, expressed a concern about the UK becoming, I think, a "me, too" country. I observe that we were an influential power before we entered the EU, we remained such as a member of the EU and all the evidence suggests that that influence will continue when we leave the EU. I do not think that the title of "me, too" would be apposite, as I anticipate a role for the United Kingdom post-leaving the EU where we are forging relationships and are a global leader My noble friend Lord Marlesford also helpfully alluded to the opportunities. I understand the concerns about our diplomatic global reach, but I reassure him that our diplomatic network is hugely influential, and represented in over 85% of the world’s countries. Some of the delegations to which he referred are, in my understanding, EU-funded, so that does not come out of the UK budget. Our overall diplomatic reach is significant and highly effective The noble Lord, Lord Davies, raised issues about defence capability and was worried about approaching the negotiations on matters of defence in a spirit of "frivolity", I think he said. Those fears are unfounded. He rightly underlined the importance of intelligence relationships. It is fully acknowledged that global intelligence is a matter of singular importance. For example, the noble Lord will be aware that our "Five Eyes" intelligence-sharing partnership with the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand is just part of the existing framework of intelligence infrastructure which is out there. I think the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, referred to this, but of course we will have before us, as we enter into these vital negotiations for leaving the EU, the importance of doing everything we can to maintain intelligence-sharing relationships. That is made all the more significant because of the shared and joint interests we have with EU countries.