Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill — House of Lords, 2015-03-09
Topic: Government Operations
Michael Goodall Watson (Labour, Centre-left): My Lords, this has been a longer and more vigorous debate than had been anticipated. I feel like a guest at my own party such is the distance we have travelled from the narrow effects of the amendments The noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, made an important point: a number of companies will be involved in the register and there will be some costs. I fully accept that. However, it is a central part of the Bill. It has come a considerable way down the road now and has been broadly accepted. The noble Lord said that he was not aware of any disquiet about it. That suggests to me that not many companies are making a great deal of noise about it. Yes, there are costs, but they have realised that benefits will follow the introduction of the register I disagree with the noble Lord when he says that we are the only country doing this. Yes, the UK is taking a lead—that is commendable—but someone has to start. There is considerable opposition to this within the EU, never mind beyond it, but we have to start somewhere. If we do not, it will never happen. From that point of view I give the Government credit for grasping the issue and taking it forward. Where it goes from here we do not know. Indeed, in doing research for this evening I noticed that since the Committee stage in January four Crown dependencies have come forward and said, "We have looked at the idea of a public register but, frankly, we do not think it is a good idea and we are not going to do it". Also since the Committee stage the leader of the Opposition has said that, should he be in a position to do so after 7 May, he will make it a requirement on the overseas territories and the Crown dependencies that they have such a public register. I accept that there is opposition to a register but the UK is due credit for leading the way in this As to what the amendments seek to do, I was surprised that the Minister said she was concerned that if too much information came forward it might obscure the situation rather than clarify it. That is similar to the argument that there is no point in having a 50 pence tax rate because people will not pay it; that you will get more tax if it is only 40p or 45p. If you set laws in any civilised country you expect people to obey them and for those laws to have the effect intended. If information is sought, it has to produce the clarity that is the intention of the amendments I repeat that it is anticipated that about 2% of all UK companies would be caught by these amendments should they be accepted and added to the Bill—not small companies and the small and medium-sized enterprises, because they do not have a complex international structure in which to hide aspects of their business, even if they wanted to I am disappointed that the Minister is not prepared to accept the amendment. It is a narrow point and would not add a great deal to what the Bill is trying to achieve. I accept that she will not change her position and I respect that. I also respect the fact that she said there will be a review within three years and that will give the opportunity to look at the situation again During the debate on these provisions I have noticed that in fact three new sections in the Bill would allow secondary legislation to address the question of foreign companies and ownership issues. I just highlight new Section 790K(5), new Section 790L and new Section 790M(7). I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, that it is indeed a beast of a Bill, although recently I was involved with the Deregulation Bill, which is every bit as complex and fat a document. There are opportunities, should the Minister feel that they are worth pursuing, but obviously it would be better if this was included in primary legislation. However, I accept what she has said and I look forward to the review of the legislation. There will be a lot of valuable impact as regards this part of the Bill. With those remarks, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.