Grenfell Tower — House of Lords, 2018-03-22
Topic: Housing
Nicholas Bourne (Conservative, Centre-right): I thank the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy and Lord Stunell, for their contributions and for their general welcome of the report. Turning to the issues that have been raised, I totally endorse the comments about the commitment that we saw from the emergency services at the time of the fire and the immediate aftermath. They did fantastic work, and obviously that work is being continued by public servants—by civil servants and local authority workers, as well as by charities, faith organisations, voluntary organisations and volunteers. There was also an incredible outpouring of charitable giving after this awful disaster I shall try to deal, first, with the point concerning the figures raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy. I think I understand what he is getting at: it is perhaps more a question of the organisation of the figures. All the figures were in the Statement, as I am sure he appreciates. I shall take that point back—but, as I said, the figures are there. The noble Lord will know that to an extent there is a degree of fluidity about this. Some people were initially in temporary accommodation and, after a period there, they opted to stay on a permanent basis. So there is a bit of fluidity in the figures, as I am sure he will accept I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, for his acknowledgement of the robust nature of the Statement. I think that it reflects the feeling in the department. In fairness, considerable progress has been made in some areas, as the report will demonstrate, but much more needs to be done. We should remember that the task force is an intervention. This intervention will remain and the task force will report again in the autumn. The leader of the council and the council have an obligation to respond to the task force’s report, and I know that the Secretary of State has already spoken to the council about that We are expecting to see more progress in relation to the housing issue, but I gently remind noble Lords that the approach—which we have all accepted was the right one—was to allow people to turn down offers. I think it is right to say that everybody has had an offer, although I hesitate to say "every household" because some households have recently split, and that is another factor. However, certainly the vast majority of households have had offers. It was an agreed policy—probably in both Houses, but it was certainly the feeling in this House—that people should have the opportunity to turn down properties and change their minds. That said, we recognise that too many people, and certainly too many children, are in emergency accommodation, and that is not desirable. However, some people are still suffering trauma and do not want to discuss moving at this stage. I am not saying that that is the case for everybody but I remind noble Lords that it is still very much a factor, particularly if there is talk of moving to a high-rise building or even to one that has more than two or three storeys. There are considerable difficulties here, for understandable reasons Picking up on other points, the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, asked about the status of the block. I will get back to him on the precise situation but it remains a crime scene, which limits what can be done on it at the moment. However—again, this has been widely welcomed—we have given an undertaking that the future of the site will be determined by the local community. Quite rightly, it will take the lead on how the redevelopment goes ahead, and I am sure that we will all want that to happen at pace once the site is no longer a crime scene The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, also asked what was intended in relation to managed blocks in the private sector. We have provided financial assistance of £1 million to help identify blocks with Grenfell-type cladding, and that process is ongoing. However—I think that this is the point that the noble Lord was getting at—there is then a question of who pays for that. The view of the Secretary of State and the Government is that this should be met morally, if not legally, by the owners of the blocks. That said, we have seen cases where that process has not been followed. The Secretary of State is calling together a round table of those involved—landlords and, following an undertaking in the Statement made earlier today in the other place, tenant organisations, which will also have a view on this—to see what can be done in that regard On the question of those in social housing, we are still talking to 41 authorities, and deep discussions are going on with four to five organisations about assistance. Most of them do not want assistance with cladding; they want assistance with other things such as sprinklers. Therefore, it is not all specifically Grenfell-related, if I can put it that way. It may be that Grenfell has provided the impetus to look at these matters, but the assistance does not all relate to cladding. However, the discussions about financial assistance continue I think that those were all the points raised by noble Lords. If I have missed anything, I will, as always, write following the Statement, picking up points and, if necessary, correcting myself, as is sometimes the case.