argyrotsipi/train-dataset huggingface dataset:
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Keith Robert Simpson (Conservative, Centre-right): This may be the kiss of death for them, but I congratulate the right hon. Members for Derby South (Margaret Beckett), for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) and for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) on three formidable speeches. It always takes incredible courage to stand against one’s party and they should not be denigrated for doing so I support the Government’s motion. I fully understand all the caveats of one kind or another that colleagues have put forward, but the most important immediate issue is making the strikes against Daesh in Syria that our intelligence and security agencies have identified and wish to carry out, because it offers a present threat to us, our constituents and our allies in Europe. This is a present threat. They may not get it entirely right. I can see my right hon. Friend for—what is his constituency? [Interruption.] I have so many friends! It would be wrong to name them all, but they think that there is no direct threat as far as intelligence is concerned. Those colleagues who have received briefings of one kind or another understand that. The intelligence and security services cannot guarantee to prevent every threat. We should support the motion primarily because we wish to extend our air campaign into Syria to help prevent the threats to this country Secondly, I am mindful that the elephant in the room is the Iraq war. We tend to look back to previous wars to draw lessons of one kind or another. The Prime Minister is absolutely right that we have to look at the present situation and the future. Hopefully, we have learned lessons, both political and military, from that war, but we can end up having our current operations and politics determined by past experiences Our predecessors sat in the Commons in the 1930s, determined never to have a great war again. The Labour party was divided—there were pacifists and those who wanted collective security. My party supported appeasement, as did the overwhelming majority of the British public, because they genuinely—these were not evil men and women—wanted to prevent another war. They failed, of course, because they were dealing with people in other countries who were not prepared to negotiate. The lessons learned from that war were used in 1956. Anthony Eden believed that Nasser was another Mussolini. He was therefore prepared to take action, but it was the wrong action at the time. I believe that we should put aside where we stood on other campaigns and look at what the situation is today My final point is that there has been a great debate about the 70,000 moderate or immoderate people who might or might not provide ground forces. I am sure that the leader of the SNP is, even as we speak, getting YouGov to go out and ask them whether they consider themselves to be moderates or immoderates.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Alberto Castrenze Costa (Conservative, Centre-right): Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that the RAF has the capability to destroy Daesh’s supply and funding lines without causing any civilian casualties of note? If the RAF is capable of doing that, why is he opposing this?
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Daniel Leonard James Poulter (Conservative, Centre-right): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden), who made some thoughtful remarks. I have come to a different conclusion from him about how to vote, but it is worth reflecting that no Government or MP takes lightly decisions about committing UK forces to combat. Our debate has highlighted the fact that there are no easy answers or solutions to the complex questions raised by the conflict in Syria and the fight with Daesh In broad terms, there are three issues that we are considering. First, we are considering the issue of combating extremism at home and the impact that airstrikes may have on that. Secondly, is it right to engage in airstrikes against Daesh, given concerns about our ability to engage in ground combat in an effective and co-ordinated manner, or to support troops in Syria? I believe that the answer is yes, and I shall come on to that. Thirdly, we are considering the issue of protecting civilians and refugees On the issue of extremism at home, ISIS, I think we all agree, presents a clear and present danger to the UK and our national security as things stand before the vote. To those who say that we will become a focus for attack if we vote for airstrikes, I would say that it is clear that we are already a target for attack. We have heard that there have been seven plots in the UK linked to ISIS in Syria that have been foiled by the UK police and security services. There is a fundamental threat to our national security, as is self-evident in the information that was passed to the Prime Minister, as he explained today. The answer to the question of whether ISIS presents a threat to our national security at home is clearly yes. In my view, given such a threat, it is in the interests of my constituents and of all hon. Members’ constituents to deal with it and strike ISIS at its heart in Syria and protect British citizens in the process On the issue of committing to airstrikes, there are concerns about capability on the ground and support for ground troops. We have heard that there is a patchwork of troops working to fight ISIS on the ground. Military action against ISIS has been taken by a number of our UN allies and other countries and concurrently the Vienna process is under way to build a broader diplomatic alliance. That is work in progress, both in diplomatic terms and in terms of supporting ground troops. The fact that we do not have a perfect solution on the ground and do not have absolutely the right capability to tackle ISIS and support the fight against it in a ground war by various Syrian forces is not a barrier to supporting airstrikes. This is an evolving process, and ISIS poses a threat not just to the UK but to other citizens. Finally, on the issue of refugees and civilians, the biggest threat to civilian life in Syria is Daesh/ISIS. There is a refugee crisis in Syria because of Daesh/ISIS acts. On those three points, I support the Government, and I urge colleagues to do the same.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Richard Benyon (Conservative, Centre-right): There is a strong pacifist tradition in this country that often requires courage to hold to. We have seen that in conflicts down the years. I have respect for those who could never support military action in any circumstances, wrong though I believe them sometimes to be. The rest of us have to reach a settled view on whether the proposal before us tonight is right or wrong. My view is that, on balance, it is right I come, like many hon. Members, from what one might call the post-Iraq generation. My default position is to apply a healthy dose of scepticism to any request for military intervention. We can all think of a great many reasons—they have been listed on all sides of the House—why not going ahead with an extension of the air campaign is the right thing to do. I entirely concede that it is not without risks. We have to understand, however, the true impact of saying that we will sit this out. If we say that and accept that air attacks have limited Daesh’s ability to operate in mass formations and conduct clear command and control operations and so on, we are, in the words of the Prime Minister, subcontracting our security to our friends In the past few days, we have seen many of the reasons not to proceed fall away: a unanimous UN resolution; a political and diplomatic process involving key parties is under way; and a greater understanding of what an air campaign is and is not.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Richard Benyon (Conservative, Centre-right): I entirely agree with my hon. Friend One of the main arguments put by a number of colleagues—even by the Chairman of the Defence Committee, on which I sit, a few days ago—is that air campaigns are only successful with little green men in battalions moving along the ground underneath the top cover provided by the RAF. In a perfect world, that is how we use air cover. We do not live a perfect world, however. I asked one my constituents––someone who knows a bit about this, General Sir Mike Jackson––whether he could remember any conflict where air power alone made a difference. He thought and said one word: Kosovo. He then started to recite other circumstances in which an air campaign can diminish an enemy, a point very ably made by the right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) We have now moved on to question the existence of the so-called 70,000 combatants. We can all dance on the head of a pin and say the reason why we cannot support the motion tonight is that they may not all be the kind of people we like, or that they might not immediately be an effective force on the ground. But they are there. They have not signed up to Assad or to the evil death cult we are targeting, and we have to use them. After the failures of the Iraq war, we have at least an independent and analytical organisation, the Joint Intelligence Committee, to provide the details. They are not being provided by politicians or their advisers. We can quibble about who these people are, but broadly speaking, since the Prime Minister mentioned the figure of 70,000 it has more or less stacked up. They are militias, some local, but through the four-year civil war they are still there and we should use them Standing by our allies at this time, particularly France, matters. Not stepping up now would give the impression that we are happy to subcontract our security. That would leave Britain’s role in the world in a very different place in the minds of our friends and our enemies. Britain’s place in the world, however, is not reason enough for armed conflict. Reason enough is found by recognising that the threat is right here and right now to the thousands of my constituents who travel to London every day to work or to attend peaceful events such as those that were taking place in the Bataclan theatre or the cafés where lovers and friends met in a way that we would want to see in every town and city in this country. The proposed action is limited, legal and has the authority of the UN. In supporting the motion tonight, we will be taking the fight, with our friends, to the heart of the ground controlled by one of the most hideous death cults of modern times.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
John Philip Glen (Conservative, Centre-right): I rise to speak in this debate with a degree of apprehension—apprehension that I am sure everyone who has contributed felt—about the implications and outcomes of what I hope we will this evening collectively mandate our brave forces to engage in, but I also speak with absolute clarity in my conscience that supporting this motion is the right thing to do In Daesh, we face an enemy that will not ever be willing to sit down and discuss its grievances, and will not bargain with the west through intermediaries, because it does not have any. Why is that? It is because it despises us simply for who we are. When we meet an enemy like that, we cannot back off. We cannot cite past misjudgments in Iraq, the nature of the Saudi arms trade, or the lack of progress in disrupting the oil trade as justification for not supporting this motion. We must realise that this evil force does threaten our security. It cannot be contained in some far-off land as we continue to close our eyes, stick our fingers in our ears and imagine it will go away; it will not, and Daesh will not.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Thomas Georg John Tugendhat (Conservative, Centre-right): I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. He is absolutely right; our defences do not start at Dover. They include the Emiratis, alongside whom I was proud to serve. They include the Kuwaitis, the Bahrainis, the French and the Estonians. They include so many of our allies. Our defence is their defence and, similarly, their defence is ours. We must stand with the French today; they may need to stand with us tomorrow This is not just about bombing, about which people have spoken a lot; it is about territory. Denying territory to the enemy and degrading their capabilities through air attack is an essential part of warfare. I have heard so much about military strategy here from armchair generals. May I say to the academic generals that even academics need universities in which to associate and places in which to meet? So too do terrorists: they need space, land and freedom of movement. That is what they have now and that is what we must deny them I say again that it is not enough to wish for peace—we must fight for it. As Ibn Khaldun said when he wrote his histories of the 13th and 14th centuries and "The Muqaddimah", history does come round, and one day I am sure we will all be pleased to see the middle east regaining its rightful position as the heart of light in the region—as a centre of science, excellence and innovation. But today it is our duty to stand with those who strive for it and fight those who would destroy it. We must stand today against ISIS and with the Government.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Martin John Vickers (Conservative, Centre-right): Although I share the Government’s objectives, I am afraid I have strong and deeply held reservations about supporting an extension of the bombing campaign without a longer-term strategy. Indeed, my concerns were admirably summed up by the Chairman of the Defence Committee—my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis)—and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie). I am not opposed to a bombing campaign per se, but as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has himself acknowledged—and across the House there seems to be total agreement—a bombing campaign alone cannot succeed; it can only be a prelude to a ground campaign The motion before us specifically excludes UK ground forces, and so we are to fall back on the 70,000 members of the Free Syrian Army. Whether this figure is accurate, I do not know, but I am very prepared to accept the Government’s acknowledgement that it is. However, it is a disparate group, and so we are asked to believe that this disparate group is capable of bringing order out of chaos. Maintaining order in a war-torn country with so many different factions is a massive challenge, as we have seen elsewhere. So we have a vacuum, and as we know, vacuums will always be filled.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax (Conservative, Centre-right): I first pay tribute to the brave pilots and crew of the RAF who are already flying in operations over Iraq. As always, they do our nation proud, and we are indebted to them Let me start by quoting from the great man himself, Winston Churchill: "Never, never, never believe that any war will be smooth and easy or that anyone who embarks on a strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realise that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events." That is a cautionary observation and one that runs through all the speeches I have heard tonight. The Government’s laudable aim is to safeguard the peoples of this great nation, to stand with our allies and to degrade Daesh. Members should please note that I did not say "destroy" Daesh, as bombing alone will not achieve that aim. What, then, does success look like? The only way Daesh can be truly destroyed in Iraq and Syria is by a large-scale multinational ground offensive, for which there is no appetite for a multitude of reasons—not least the ghosts of the past, which clearly stalk this Chamber tonight. But if we truly intend to tackle this problem, destroy Daesh in its lair and follow through on UN resolution 2249, a ground offensive is the only practical and logical conclusion. Bombing will degrade Daesh, kill its operatives and give heart to those fighting this organisation on the ground, but it will not destroy it. The Government have made it clear that they have no wish to put boots on the ground, which today’s motion specifically excludes. I suspect, however, that that is exactly where it might lead, as one consequence of a bombing campaign. We are a major player and must play a prominent role, standing up for values that are envied across the globe Islamic fundamentalism is, regrettably, our generation’s scourge, and it is not going to dissipate in the short term. Could this be our Thirty Years war? The current threat is real and present: it can and must be fought. So let us not discard the idea of boots on the ground—no matter whose boots they are—but explore that option in the eventuality. As Churchill indicated, conflict subjects us to forces outside our control. Subsequently, every eventuality needs to be examined Bombing alone will not solve this vexed question, which has divided the House and will do so again later, but it will demonstrate to the world that we will defend our island and her people, stand by our allies and meet our international obligations. As I said here on Monday night, evil thrives when good men and women do nothing. Tonight, I shall go into the Lobby with the Government. I am with the Government, our allies and the thousands of innocent victims who are looking to us for help.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
James Stephen Heappey (Conservative, Centre-right): On three occasions, I left my family and boarded a plane bound for Afghanistan or Iraq. As the plane went through the clouds, I took what could have been my final look out of the window at this country. When you do that, you cannot help wondering whether the people who have stood in this place have made the right decision, whether the nation is with you, and whether what you are going to do is worth while Today, I rise to contribute to that decision-making process, and I can tell the House that the responsibility weighs heavily on my shoulders. However, I am certain that the motion should be supported. It clearly states that the continuation of airstrikes in Syria is just one part of the solution that is required to defeat Daesh, and to secure a peace both there and in Iraq. Bombing, diplomacy, aid, and countering radicalisation at home and abroad are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, we have surely seen that they are utterly interdependent. Today, we must decide on whether to take military action, and I want to speak briefly about four themes in support of that action First, we are being asked to join a coalition—a coalition of our closest allies and some of our most important partners in the region—and we must answer their call. Secondly, our contribution does enhance the capability of the coalition. Difficult targets present themselves only fleetingly, and prosecuting those targets requires constant air cover involving highly skilled pilots and deadly accurate munitions. Our Royal Air Force offers that. Thirdly, there is the necessity for indigenous ground manoeuvre. In Basra, my battle group was fighting an insurgency that existed almost entirely because we were there. The 70,000 Syrians and 20,000 Kurds under arms could, and should, become a cohesive and capable force, but the bombing campaign will buy the time for them to be manoeuvred into the place where we need them to be, so that we can co-ordinate their efforts in support of the airstrikes It is, of course, important to note that those airstrikes degrade Daesh in the meantime. It has a military effect of its own. It is clear to me from today’s debate—this is my final point—that the House agrees on the ends that we seek to achieve, and that most of us agree on the means by which we seek to achieve them, diplomatic, humanitarian and military. The disagreement is on when, and in what order. I say from personal experience that when we are trying to buy time in a combat zone, we need to suppress the enemy. We need to keep their heads down, and deny them any freedom of action. Nothing in a combat zone is perfect—the timing is never right—but we must get on with this, because we are required to do so to help the Syrian people.
ISIL in Syria — House of Commons, 2015-12-02
Topic: Defense
Fiona Claire Bruce (Conservative, Centre-right): None of us comes lightly to the decision we make today, but one thing that I am sure of is that at the forefront of all our minds is the safety and security of every one of our constituents. In coming to my decision today, I have read all my constituents’ letters and emails. I have also asked myself a number of time-honoured questions about whether a conflict is just. Will this military action promote a just cause? Are our intentions right? Is there legislative authority? Is this a last resort? Is there a probability of success? Is the action proportionate Time prohibits a detailed response, but although in an ideal world no right-thinking person would advocate military action, we do not live in an ideal world—far from it. We and our constituents live with the very real, present and vicious threat of the evil ideology of ISIL, whose ultimate aim is nothing less than to destroy civilised society as we know it. The motion asks for authority for military action—airstrikes— "exclusively against ISIL in Syria" in order "to defend the UK" and "prevent terrorist acts by ISIL" Can anyone doubt that that is a just cause Do we have the right intentions? Just as the UK is compassionately motivated in seeking humanitarian efforts in Syria, supporting refugee camps in Lebanon and Jordan and welcoming refugees here, I believe the support for this motion in many parts of the House is born out of the same compassion for the suffering Syrian people—children raped, Christians tortured, aid workers beheaded, and whole families dispossessed, having been given three choices by ISIL: submit, leave or die. If our end goal for them is successful post-conflict stabilisation, and we want protection for them in the meantime from an evil and barbaric oppressor that threatens not only their peace and security but ours, I believe that we have the right intentions Do we have legitimate authority? If this House supports our Government, it will note that we have a clear legal basis for defending the UK under the UN charter.