Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill [HL] — House of Lords, 2016-06-06
Topic: Culture
Nicholas Trench (Crossbench, Unknown): My Lords, I thank Peter Stone of Newcastle University and Historic England for their briefings I am grateful to the Government for introducing this Bill and for doing so so early in the Session. As we know, this will not provide a panacea for saving all cultural heritage or bringing back what is lost, but it will put us on the same footing as the countries which have ratified. This means we will be in a better position certainly in terms of having a moral authority which we previously lacked, as well as, importantly, having more of a shared responsibility for the protection of cultural heritage. By ratifying this Bill, we become part of a majority by joining the 66% of the world’s countries to have done so, although one of the far fewer in number to have signed the second protocol I should mention the two technical issues already referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, and add to what she said. The word "violation" is in fact used in Clause 3, so there is a confusion. As a non-legal person it feels to me that the word "breach" by itself is less strong than the word "violation", which is the term used in the convention. I notice, however, that this is the wording that was used in the 2008 draft Bill, so it has probably been simply carried over On the question of possible claims of ownership made on pieces which are loaned abroad, in addition to what the Minister has already outlined, one thing I would say is that other countries in Europe such as Germany have signed the second protocol, where it has been in force since 2004. Germany has an arts and antiques trade and public museums comparable to those of the UK, so the question is simply this: have any concerns been felt by Germany over the past 12 years or by other countries which signed in 1999? I have heard nothing of that In regard to the illegal trade in antiquities, there is clear anecdotal evidence in recent newspaper articles and on television programmes that London is a market for this trade. My feeling is that until auction houses and the antiques trade become, or are compelled by law to become, less secretive about the provenance of the goods they sell, it will be difficult to do a great deal about this. The Dealing in Cultural Objects (Offences) Act 2003 has not yet produced a single conviction, so one hopes that the strengthening of the law which the Minister has outlined will have an effect. What is the current strength of the Metropolitan Police Arts and Antiques Unit, are there plans to expand it, and what other measures might the Government use? I would also ask the Government what is to be the strength of the new cultural protection capability for the Armed Forces—the new monuments men and women The £30 million fund is of course hugely welcome, but there is a question about the long term and whether there is to be a legacy, and here I echo what was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews. I certainly support the idea of a Blue Shield international co-ordination centre in the UK, possibly based in London. It could co-ordinate work on a global basis, ensuring that among the much necessary work there is no unnecessary duplication of projects such as mapping. The idea is backed by, among many other organisations, the British Museum, the Museums Association and the Council for British Archaeology. This is an opportunity for the UK to be a leader in the field, and if we do not take it, another country will The more I learn about this area of cultural protection, the more I am convinced of its importance. The riposte to those who say that people come before cultural property is this. By protecting cultural heritage we also protect people because our cultural heritage in its broadest sense is also what we inhabit not just literally in terms of bricks and stone, but more abstractly in terms of our learning—the sciences, the arts and everything that we term as "culture"—and which we transform using our minds into the material environment that surrounds us. Of course all art and culture, if it lasts for 2,000 years, did once start off as brand new There are questions for the longer term of what is cultural property, and it has to be said that the perception of cultural heritage changes over time. A danger for our own culture is that we get drawn into formalising a hierarchy of cultural value where some things are worth saving and others are not. My hope for the Bill is the opposite: that it will help to raise awareness of the value of cultural heritage more generally. Even in the Middle East distinctions are tacitly made. The destruction of Palmyra, which I am sure was a trigger for the timing of this Bill, is tragic, but once you get away from the more classically influenced sites there is considerably less reporting of the destruction of sites of equal significance. I am thinking for instance of the old city of Sana’a in Yemen, itself a world heritage site. I hope that the Bill will focus our minds on how the UK might have helped better to prevent that destruction Cultural heritage also needs to be protected in peacetime, not just from military attack. No doubt the Minister will have seen last week’s UNESCO report detailing the effects that climate change poses to world heritage sites including Stonehenge, Venice, Easter Island and many others, including natural heritage sites. The risk from fire, flooding and even simple neglect and lack of funding are also potential causes of destruction. In relation to this Bill, I understand that every four years countries are invited by UNESCO to give answers to a questionnaire specifying what they have done to protect their own cultural heritage. What preparations are being made in advance of these questions?