Forum: bicycles.stackexchange.com
Tags: <safety><advocacy><bike-lane>
Title: How should I deal with bike messengers + others (salmon) riding the wrong way in a bike lane?
Question: Frustrated cyclist "jegrgic" poses this question at the  New York Cycling Club (NYCC) website .  They say:   When I see this, I want to just go over to the person and try to give them some common sense. But typically, I just do my best to avoid them (usually by going into traffic) and swear under my breath while shaking my head.   Is it productive to be confrontational in this situation? Has anybody been able to educate them? Should we let the salmon swim upstream unimpeded?

Answers:
sents: text: I want to just go over to the person and try to give them some common sense.
text: If I felt like that, I'd have to tell every second cyclist I see at night that they ought to have lights.
text: Is it productive to be confrontational in this situation?
text: Has anybody been able to educate them?
text: Should we let the salmon swim upstream unimpeded?
text: Ring your bell. :-)
answer_details: author: bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/1097/ChrisW
score: 11
sents: text: I have in the past stopped and held up my hand in a 'stop' gesture and had a short conversation with people riding the wrong way.
text: If they stop, which they normally do, I typically and quickly try to point out: Wrong way riding is illegal.
text: It's substantially more dangerous.
text: Our state is a contributory negligence state, so if you are in an accident you will likely collect much less or nothing at all.
text: And I finish with:
text: Maybe it's none of my business, but everyone is better off when we all follow the expected traffic rules.
text: Generally I get a response that ranges between acceptance and indifference.
text: The anecdotal evidence that it works is that they usually cross the street and on my typical route I seem to see fewer 'salmon'.
text: Truth is, they may be thinking I'm a crackpot and crossing back over as soon as I am out of sight.
text: Only once has someone yelled or argued with me.
text: That said, I don't stop messengers.
text: They generally know the rules and are choosing to flaunt them.
answer_details: author: bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/213/Gary.Ray
score: 9
sents: text: I'm sure there are cultural differences between NYC and where I live, but I've found that any attempts at yelling " Don't go the wrong way! ", " You're gonna kill yourself!
text: Ride with traffic! "
text: or something like that at a passing cyclist get no acknowledgment, get dismissed ("
text: yeah,
text: yeah, whatever"), or hostility.
text: There's very few wrong-way cyclists that seem open to being educated.
text: I'm really hoping somebody can share some techniques that have seemed to reach the salmon.
text: I think the one thing I know of working is police ticketing them, especially since here one of their options for dealing with the ticket is taking a bicycle safety class from a LAB certified instructor via the local cycling advocacy group.
text: In the US there's been federal grant money for "bicycle safety" that police departments can apply for to pay for overtime for police officers to concentrate on ticketing cyclists for dangerous illegal behaviors.
text: It might be possible to convince your local police department to apply for some of that funding.
text: As far as how to keep yourself safe, hugging the curb and slowing down works great.
text: Since they can see the oncoming traffic they're better situated for a dodge out of the bike lane.
text: Slowing down so that you can stop quickly is helpful, too.
text: If there's cars next to you, this doesn't work as well, since wrong-way cyclists are generally willing to ride in the door zone without thinking twice about it.
answer_details: author: bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/76/freiheit
score: 7
sents: text: It's not your problem.
text: Leave them be.
text: Do your own thing, swim your own path.
text: It's easy to say that
text: but life's too short.
text: If they're not going to listen to what you say and it would just annoy you even more than it apparently already does, then just leave them to it and go on about your day.
text: Unless someone has actively endangered me with their stupidity, then I'm inclined to just ignore it.
text: I'm not a cop, they'd not pay me any attention anyway.
text: If I'm feeling particularly belligerent then I might deliberately get in their way (I do tend to do this with pavement riders when I'm a pedestrian), but generally that's just risking their anger and they wouldn't learn anyway.
answer_details: author: bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/425/Unsliced
score: 5
sents: text: It'd be best if they simply obeyed the traffic laws, but the few times I've brought this up with wrong-way riders, I've encountered everything from disbelief to hostility.
text: I simply do my best to avoid them and not collide with them.
text: To that end, I've found that you can usually "direct" these riders within the bike lane or shoulder.
text: When I see them in the distance riding towards me, I'll point at them, then left, while I simultaneously move to the right.
text: (If time permits, I'll point at myself first , to make it clear
text: I'm saying "How about if we both ride on the right side of this lane.)
text: It almost always works, and many wrong-way cyclists actually seem to appreciate this; I've gotten a few friendly nods from doing this.
text: This technique has worked on the streets of New York City, various locations in New Jersey, and also while on tour in Rhode Island.
text: However, note that some areas may have laws that make signaling like this problematic, possibly opening you up to liability
text: if there's an accident caused by your signals.
text: ( Here's an example .)
answer_details: author: bicycles.stackexchange.com/users/8/Goodbye Stack Exchange
score: 5

Summary of the answers:
Cyclists have a variety of ways of dealing with other cyclists riding the wrong way in a bike lane. Some people believe it is better to keep out of their way and ignore them. Others believe they should be confronted. The only thing that seems to stop them is the police ticketing them. Each cyclist has to make up their own mind.
Most responders find that these cyclists are not usually responsive to correction, unless this is by a police officer with the power to punish offenders. Rather than seeking to educate people, it can help to ring your bell and indicate your direction of travel, then look after your own safety.