Forum: ell.stackexchange.com
Tags: <phrase-meaning><phrase-choice><idiomatic-language>
Title: Please, smoke with good manners
Question: In Tokyo, I saw this sign next to the smoking area.    It says   Please smoke  with good manners  in the area surrounded by planters.   The part "with good manners" sounds a bit weird to me. Is it just me, or is it not idiomatic?  One can have/teach/forget manners   He dressed well and  had  impeccable manners.  They  taught  him his manners.  I'm sorry, I  was forgetting  my manners.   but "with manners" seems a bit off, doesn't it? How would you say it?

Answers:
sents: text: While you can do things with good manners, it is rare to direct someone to do so in imperatives.
text: Unless addressing children, it is not required to remind people to be polite— a person with good upbringing has good manners out of habit; an poorly raised person cannot tell the difference, anyway.
text: This may reflect a difference of cultural perception, but I think more likely that it is simply a poor translation from Japanese.
text: A search on "smoke with good manners" mostly returns results from Japan.
text: Considerate would be the more idiomatic adjective to use to remind people to think of others, so a similar campaign in an English-speaking city might be
text: please be a considerate smoker or please be considerate when smoking , phrasings which are common in such signs.
text: When speaking generally of politeness, consideration, and other positive social behavior, good manners are something you have , not something you do (as with one's habits or one's nature ).
text: Someone with good manners may be said to be well-mannered , and someone without good manners is ill-mannered ; it is more usually expressed that someone has good manners, than that they do something with good manners.
answer_details: author: ell.stackexchange.com/users/21/choster
score: 13
sents: text: In Japan, there are many odd (and sometimes unintentionally hilarious) signs with translations of Japanese phrases into English.
text: This is a good example, as "please smoke with good manners" is not at all idiomatic.
text: A more idiomatic version might be:
text: Please be considerate of others when smoking in the area surrounded by planters.
text: or Please be courteous when smoking in the area surrounded by planters.
text: Side note:
text: One of the funniest "Japlish" signs I ever saw was from a train station, which advised passengers: Please do not run into the train.
text: Good advice to be sure, but more likely they meant to say Please to not run onto the train.
text: /
text: Please do not run to get on board the train Logically, "into" makes sense, but unfortunately the phrasal verb "run into" something means "collide with", usually "head-on".
text: I suspect most people know it's not a good idea to run into trains.
text: (Edit)
text: For general interest: A direct translation from the Japanese マナーを守って (mana o mamotte) would be:
text: Please mind your manners
text: when ...
text: However this is somewhat too strong for a public sign, as it's the kind of thing parents might say their children, or a teacher to her students.
text: Now children, be sure to mind your manners when we are at the museum, otherwise they won't allow us to come back.
text: A more nuanced translation would be "be courteous".
answer_details: author: ell.stackexchange.com/users/42184/Andrew
score: 13
sents: text: It is not uncommon to see "with good manners".
text: For example see Google and Google Books .
text: You can learn good manners, practice good manners, or keep good manners.
answer_details: author: ell.stackexchange.com/users/61125/Eddie Kal
score: 2
sents: text: A Japanese speaker might offer a better phrased translation, but this doesn’t seem too bad.
text: One can use good manners in other actions.
text: A smoker can be mindful of those nearby and carefully dispose of the remains.
text: That would seem to be good manners.
text: As others noted, “be considerate” would be how one would word this in English, typically.
answer_details: author: ell.stackexchange.com/users/516/JTP - Apologise to Monica
score: 2
sents: text: A native Japanese.
text: We are so embarrassed that our English literacy is so low despite the mandatory English study span
text: is 6 years in the shortest.
text: For example, a guidance of a community bus of one of the wealthiest district of a prefecture says, Abide by Low .
text: O.K.
text: How can we abide by Low , man!
text: Correct it to Law right now!
text: But towards 2020 Tokyo Olympic, the English guidance or announcements are getting improved gradually, but especially in rural areas, there are still many signs with strange English.
text: For example, Please notify the train crews if you find unclaimed and suspicious objects or persons
text: Okay, so if I find someone whose behavior seems to be strange, am I obliged to call the crews?
text: F::k
text: my country's English.
text: Hahahaha, An another odd guidance from one of the wealthiest districts.
text: (Many native English speakers live here.)
text: PLEASE STAND AT SEAT AFTER STOPPING.
text: So do we need to stand up at the seat every time bus stops?
text: Did the guidance try to mean "Please stand up from your seat after the bus stops"?
text: Oh..my lovely country always full of harmless and innocent but stupid instruction everywhere lol.
text: (Found today)Did the guidance try to mean "Please stand up from your seat after the bus stops"?
text: Oh..my lovely country always full of harmless and innocent but stupid instruction everywhere lol.
text: (Found today) Hahaha, here is an another shot from a Tokyo metropolitan subway.
text: As the Tokyo Olmpic gets closer, the "announcement" in English is getting improved in rapid pace.
text: But the banner of the central Tokyo subway is still behind the schedule?
text: Even though it looks they are appointing the "professional" English speakers?
text: Enjoy Tokyo with Good Manners!
answer_details: author: ell.stackexchange.com/users/17814/Kentaro
score: 2
sents: text: Alternatively, keeping "manners" in the title, it could be phrased as: Practice good manners while smoking in the area surrounded by planters.
text: Although "courteous" is what they're trying for with that translation, it is understandable.
answer_details: author: ell.stackexchange.com/users/94766/SentientFlesh
score: 2

Summary of the answers:
When speaking generally of politeness, consideration, and other positive social behavior, good manners are something you  have , not something you  do  (as with one's  habits  or one's  nature ). This may reflect a difference of cultural perception, but I think more likely that it is simply a poor translation from Japanese.
This is a poor translation from Japanese and while it is not uncommon to see "with good manners" the use of "courteous" would be more appropriate.