Forum: music.stackexchange.com
Tags: <rhythm>
Title: Phrase to help count 3 groups of 17?
Question: I'm trying to learn to count 3 groups of 17.  For example, for 2 groups of 11, I came up with:  1-ap-ple-a-day-keeps-the-doc-tor-a-way  2-ap-ple(s)-a-day-keep-the-doc-tor-a-way  What's something similar that I can use for 3 groups of 17? Like:  1-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da2-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da3-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da-da-Da  Thanks.

Answers:
sents: text: If this feels like 4/4 time with an extra beat tagged on at the end, then I would count each measure as: 1-ee-and-uh-2-ee-and-uh-3-ee-and-uh-4-ee-and-uh-5` If you want the pattern to count up and don't need to worry about accenting a particular beat, I would recommend this: 1-ee-and-uh-IS-ee-and-uh-SEV-ee-and-uh-EN-ee-and-uh-TEEN`2-ee-and-uh-IS-ee-and-uh-SEV-ee-and-uh-EN-ee-and-uh-TEEN`3-ee-and-uh-IS-ee-and-uh-SEV-ee-and-uh-EN-ee-and-uh-TEEN
text: ` Then, internalize the "ee-and-uh"s so that you don't have to count them out loud.
text: This leaves you with: 1
text: / / / IS / / / SEV / / / EN / / /
text: TEEN`2 / / / IS
text: / / / SEV / / / EN / / /
text: TEEN`3 / / / IS / / / SEV / / / EN / / / TEEN` If you were to learn this method, it would be easier because you'll only have to count 5 beats, and the rest you will be able to simply feel intuitively.
text: Another value of this pattern is that, if you are learning to count/feel lots of different odd meters, then you can easily remember which one is 17/8 versus, e.g., 15/8.
text: If you want the 17 beats in groupings of 3 (so that every third beat is a strong beat), then you could use: 1-and
text: -uh-THIS-and-uh-IS-and-uh-SEV-and-uh-EN-and-uh-TEEN
text: -OH2-and
text: -uh-THIS-and-uh-IS-and-uh-SEV-and-uh-EN-and-uh-TEEN-OH3-and
text: -uh-THIS-and-uh-IS-and-uh-SEV-and-uh-EN-and-uh-TEEN-
text: OH
text: Once you internalize the weak beats (the "and-uh"s), you can count it more easily like this: 1
text: / / THIS / / IS / / SEV / / EN / / TEEN
text: OH2
text: / / THIS / / IS / / SEV / / EN / / TEEN
text: OH3 /
text: / THIS
text: / / IS / / SEV / / EN / / TEEN OH
answer_details: author: music.stackexchange.com/users/40842/jdjazz
score: 4
sents: text: Take a look at poetry written in a 17-syllable meter, for instance: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17Thís is the | fórest pri | méval, the | múrmuring | píne and the | hémlocks (Introduction to Evangeline: A Tale of Acadie Henry WadsworthLongfellow, 1807 - 1882) Then for a 1,2,3 pattern, craft your 5 Dactyls (triplets) and the final Trochee (duplet).
text: 1 pretty kitty eats meat in the morning along with some salmon.2 pretty kitties
text: eat meat in the morning along with some salmon.3 pretty kitties
text: eat meat in the morning along with some salmon.
answer_details: author: music.stackexchange.com/users/53914/Richard Barber
score: 4
sents: text: What is some-thing sim-il-ar that would fit for three groups of sev-en-teen.
answer_details: author: music.stackexchange.com/users/50691/ggcg
score: 2
sents: text: Assuming captial 'Da' is the stress.
text: It's duple and 16+1.
text: But, a meter like 17/8 seems to obscure the very regular stress given except for the last group.
text: It seems a mix of 2/4 and 5/8 meters makes the clearest break down of beats and stresses.
text: 2/4 1 + 2 +
text: | 1 + 2 + | 1 + 2 + | 5/8 1 + 2 + a
text: I'm seeing this as a subdivision of 2 rather than 4.
text: So instead of treating 'Da-da-Da-da' as 1 e & a I reduce that to just Da-da twice which counts as 1 + 2
text: + .
text: If you had written something like Da-da-ti-da or otherwise differentiated the 1st and 3rd events, then a subdivision of 4 would have been appropriate.
text: I don't see how the various mnemonics suggested in other answers are supposed to help.
text: If it's put into meters that reflect your stress pattern, it's not overly complicated, and a mnemonic becomes necessary.
text: Personally, I feel the mnemonic seems to obscure the pattern.
text: If a mnemonic is really desired, wouldn't it make sense to pick parts of speech to reflect the beat divisions?... up and down andleft and right andin and out andthere and back a-gain ...
text: that a pattern of 4 + 4 + 4 + 5 = 17 eighth notes.
answer_details: author: music.stackexchange.com/users/23919/Michael Curtis
score: 2
sents: text: Sheet music and notes would make the question more clear Using 4 times Da-ba-da-ra with a final Da and counting with the fingers of the left hand instead of 1 234 - 2 234 - 3 234 4 234 5 !)
text: and the right hand counts the lines would make it easy to get along : 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 1=17 1) Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da 2) Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da 3) Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da -ba-da-ra + Da
text: In jazz counting 8th notes goes Da-ba-Da-ba (where the -ba is creating a swing as the da is longer than the ba.)
text: Thus you might also use this by counting 4 times Da-ba-Da-ba with a final Da !
text: for each line.
answer_details: author: music.stackexchange.com/users/56219/Albrecht Hügli
score: 2
sents: text: Not sure if I understand where you want to put the accents.
text: If it does not matter then I think that I would break down 17 into a nine plus an eight and then further break down the nine to three sets of three and the eight to four sets of two.
text: So my result would be Da da da Da da da Da
text: da da Da da Da da Da da Da da or if counting 1
text: 2 3 |2 2 3 |3 2 3 |1 2
text: |2 2 |3 2 |4 2
text: For me this is easier to count in my head or to say out loud.
answer_details: author: music.stackexchange.com/users/24412/JimM
score: 1
sents: text: Using konnakol (you can find many videos on it): || ta ka ta ki
text: ṭa
text: |
text: ta ka ta ki ṭa |
text: ta ka ta ki
text: ṭa | taam .
text: ||||
text: ta ka ta ki
text: ṭa
text: |
text: ta ka ta ki ṭa |
text: ta ka ta ki ṭa | tohm .
text: ||||
text: ta ka ta ki
text: ṭa
text: |
text: ta ka ta ki ṭa |
text: ta ka ta ki ṭa | dheem .
text: || Quick note: The 't' is dental (close enough to the Spanish/French denti-alveolar 't') and 'ṭ' is retroflex (but can be approximated by alveolar 't' of English).
text: The period (.) indicates a rest (of unit duration) Here the difference in the three phrases is at the end , but it could easily be moved to the start.
answer_details: author: music.stackexchange.com/users/12356/M. Vinay
score: 1

Summary of the answers:
Sheet music and notes would make the question more clear  Using 4 times  Da-ba-da-ra  with a final  Da  and counting with the fingers of the left hand instead of  1 234 -  2 234 -  3 234   4 234   5 !). In jazz counting 8th notes goes Da-ba-Da-ba (where the -ba is creating a swing as the da is longer than the ba.)
For each line, count with the fingers of the left hand instead of  1 234 -  2 234 -  3 234   4 234   4 234    5 !)  Using the right hand counts the lines would make it easy to get along.