National Shipper Advisory Committee

Committee Meeting

Miami, Florida

March 30, 2023

1:00 pm Eastern Time

Meeting Minutes

Introduction and Determination of Quorum

Dylan Richmond, the Designated Federal Officer (DFO), welcomed everyone in attendance, 

advised the meeting is subject to Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA) requirements, and 

confirmed a quorum was present and the National Shipper Advisory Committee (NSAC or 

Committee) could conduct its business. 

Committee members were reminded they cannot individually speak for the Committee or on 

its behalf.

Election of NSAC Chair and Vice Chair

The DFO announced that the first item on the agenda was the Committee’s election of a 

new Committee Chair and Vice Chair. underscored the FMC’s desire for the Committee to 

reflect a balance between importers and exporters. Ballots for the two open positions were sent 

out to Committee members via email prior to the meeting. Committee members then returned

their ballots directly to the DFO. The DFO asked if any Committee member would like to 

change their vote prior to reading the outcome. No Committee members motioned to change 

their vote. The DFO then confirmed Michael Symonanis was elected to the position of 

Committee Chair, and Kenneth O’Brien was elected to Vice Chair.

Remarks from NSAC Leadership

The NSAC Chair thanked the Miami-Dade Council for hosting the meeting and the 

Committee members for their work in the subcommittees since the last full meeting. The Vice 

Chair encouraged members of the public to engage with the Committee to ensure their side of the 

story is heard and that any recommendations put forth by the Committee address the needs of the 

whole supply chain. 

Update from Commissioner Carl Bentzel (Virtual)

Federal Maritime Commissioner Carl Bentzel provided an update to the Committee on 

his Maritime Transportation Data Initiative (MTDI). He stated he is awaiting final comments 

from FMC staff and other commissioners before publishing his final report. Commissioner 

Bentzel also expressed his desire for the public to provide comments on the recommendations 

from the report. The main recommendation from the report would be the establishment of a 

maritime transportation data system which would house several mandatory data elements vital to 

running an efficient supply chain. He expressed his continued support for engaging with the Data 

and Visibility subcommittee as his work is ongoing. 
Commissioner Bentzel discussed his conversations with the European Commission, the 

Digital Container Shipping Association (DCSA), and officials from the ports of Antwerp and 

Rotterdam as part of his research for the MTDI report. He shared that the European Commission 

is working on an inter-port interface which will focus on ships coming into port. According to 

him, European ports are struggling with inaccurate and untimely data. He has also discussed the 

potential benefits of track and trace technology for international intermodal cargo with DCSA. 

Following Commissioner Bentzel’s remarks, he took questions and comments from 

Committee members. The NSAC Chair asked about Commissioner Bentzel’s impressions on the 

scope and progress of Europe’s work so far. Commissioner Bentzel said he believes the U.S. is 

likely the first mover in tackling the complex problems facing both importers and exporters.

Europe has no strategy in place yet to enact their plan, and their plan is limited to handling ships 

when they first enter the port.

Data/Visibility Subcommittee Discussion

The Data/Visibility Subcommittee Chair, Gabriel Rodriguez, provided an update on their 

work since the last meeting. He stated the group meets on a bi-weekly basis and worked on 

developing the three recommendations proposed at the last meeting. The group is developing 

another recommendation aligning carrier and subcontracted party (e.g., MTOs, railyards, etc.) 

data. That potential recommendation will be informed by the MTDI final report, so the 

subcommittee held off on moving forward until the report was released.

The subcommittee chair also recommended that the Committee move from a data 

gathering stance to more engagement with the public, inviting industry partners and 

organizations to engage with the Committee and the subcommittee, and asked for general 

feedback on the NSAC recommendations that had been passed. 

The NSAC Chair commented on the subcommittee’s work going forward. He mentioned 

that their first goal is to clarify recommendations through creation of summaries for broader 

distribution. This will aid the NSAC as it works to widen engagement with the nation’s shipping 

community and ensure its recommendations reflect the needs of the entire shipping public.

Feedback from shippers could help the NSAC determine its next steps. The NSAC Chair 

reiterated that some of the issues with the supply chain are behavioral and, thus, can be addressed 

immediately and without requiring legislative or regulatory changes. 

Following this discussion, the subcommittee chair solicited comments and questions from 

Committee members. One member asked whether members of the Data/Visibility Subcommittee

would be willing to attend public events held by various groups and associations around the 

shipping community to solicit feedback on their work, rather than waiting for the public to reach 

out to NSAC. NSAC leadership would take this into consideration. 

Fees/Surcharges Subcommittee Discussion

The Fees and Surcharges Subcommittee Chair, Rich Roche, provided a recap of their Q1 

2023 efforts. He reiterated that the subcommittee supports reasonable detention and demurrage 
practices – i.e., incentivizing the movement of cargo – and only wants to correct the abuses of 

these charges. 

The subcommittee chair discussed the ongoing FMC rulemaking and asked the NSAC to 

come together to provide formal comments as a group to the FMC to ensure their voices are 

heard and the final rule best reflects the needs of shippers. The Committee’s comments, he 

suggested, should focus on early return date changes, customs holds, detention billing (who 

should be sending or receiving the bill), amended D&D invoicing (to ensure the 13 elements 

outlined in OSRA 2022 are included), and the “30/30/30” idea for billing and disputed charges 

for D&D (30 days to invoice, 30 days to dispute, and 30 days to resolve). He noted the first two 

items are already covered by previous recommendations from that subcommittee. 

The subcommittee chair reviewed their work on attempting to clarify jurisdictional issues

on through bills of lading. In the FMC’s response to its “Intermodal Oversight via Through Bills 

of Lading” recommendation from April 2022, the FMC stated any expansion of the agency’s

jurisdiction must be legislated by Congress. The FMC’s response did note that the Commission 

has jurisdiction on a “through transportation rate”. Despite this, the subcommittee feels the 

FMC’s recent actions do not support these statements. A major problem noted by the 

subcommittees is that railroads, which are not FMC-regulated entities, issue bills as well. At the 

recommendation of Commissioner Rebecca Dye, the subcommittee met with Surface 

Transportation Board (STB) Member Patrick J. Fuchs for another viewpoint on this issue. That 

Board member stated that the Staggers Act denies the STB jurisdiction over contract carriage.

The subcommittee chair listed a few possible next steps to move forward: 1) Follow the 

warehouseman’s case and ask Secretary of Transportation to have STB commence investigation.

2) Ask Congress to increase FMC’s jurisdiction. 3) Ask for rulemaking to have railroad 

operators invoice ocean carriers for storage directly. 

Following the update, the subcommittee chair solicited comments and questions from 

Committee members. One member asked if the group could move forward with the third idea 

without doing the second first. The subcommittee chair stated it is the subcommittee’s belief that

they could if the FMC adds language in their current D&D rulemaking mandating that rail 

operators must bill the ocean carriers. Other members reiterated the importance of identifying

where the FMC’s jurisdiction ends and any gray areas. The NSAC Vice Chair supported 

answering the NPRM and identified a fourth possible solution – working with the railroads 

directly to resolve the issues. He posited this might be a faster route to resolution. There was 

general support for the idea the incentive principle should be leaned on to cover these problems,

but it was acknowledged there is no referee in the game. 

Chassis Subcommittee Discussion

The Chassis Subcommittee Chair, Steve Schult, provided a brief update due to limited 

engagement since the last meeting. The subcommittee is waiting for ongoing litigation to be 

resolved as that will impact their work. In the meantime, the group is working to understand 

more holistically what chassis fairness looks like given the variance in chassis models at ports 

and regions around the country. The group plans to meet with several Class 1 railroads to 
determine the chassis impact is on inland moves and should have more information to share by 

the next full NSAC meeting. 

Public Comment Period (commenters limited to 3 minutes each)

The DFO notified the Committee that no public comments had been received via email 

and encouraged the public to provide such comments at nsac@fmc.gov. In-person attendees 

were then allowed to address the Committee.

Summation of Comments

Eric Olafson, Director of Global Trade and Cargo Development PortMiami

Mr. Olafson stated he believes the NSAC and PortMiami share common goals and 

problems. Since ports are a critical delivery point, he stated better transparency is needed to 

know how much cargo to put on rail or truck, and what is moving to inland ports. This is an 

important consideration for PortMiami as they work to build two inland ports. A considerable 

amount of their cargo is perishable – the port has seen a 58% increase in this category since 2018

– and it loses value quickly if cargo is not moving efficiently. Accurate and timely information 

on cargo is critical for the PortMiami.

He stated that we want to be able to see cargo at 360 degrees as it moves throughout the 

U.S. Right now, it is possible to find where your container is located, but it takes you twenty 

websites to find all the information. He offered his organization to be a resource for the 

Committee.

Brian Bumpass, Vice President of Logistics at The Allied Group

Mr. Bumpass stated that rail demurrage is a huge issue that shippers face and one that

should be relatively easy to fix. However, because neither the STB nor the FMC have firmly 

accepted responsibility for these moves it causes confusion in the industry. Since the FMC 

accepts jurisdiction over through bills of lading, and demurrage bills from railroads refer to this 

bill of lading vis-à-vis the container numbers included on the invoices, he believes it should fall 

to the FMC to resolve this problem. Mr. Bumpass asked what the FMC is doing to tackle this 

problem, what is the timeline for resolution, and whether there is a path for the FMC to ask

Congress to have their jurisdiction expanded.

John Dom, Member of Freight Transportation Advisory Committee and Chair of Florida Trade 

Advisory Committee 

Mr. Dom stated that everyone is looking closely at intermodal ports and recommended to 

the NSAC they connect with departments of transportation of various states and use them as a 

resource in the NSAC’s work. Many of the state DOTs are actively looking at the problems 

NSAC is discussing. One idea that may be of benefit to the industry, he shared, would be funds 

provided by the federal government for truck parking.
Closing Remarks

In closing comments, NSAC Chair Mike Symonanis underscored the challenge from a 

lack of feedback from the nation’s shippers which is vital to these conversations. He noted that 

the NSAC would benefit from engagement with a wide variety of shippers and that the 

Committee cannot move forward unless there is agreement that the recommendations represent 

all shippers. This feedback will help the NSAC avoid redundancy in what have been technical 

recommendations thus far. The NSAC is open to making modifications and wants to reach a 

consensus among the nation’s shippers. When this is done, the group can start to think about 

what behavioral changes, which do not require legislative or regulatory change, could be 

implemented immediately.

He believes that within the NSAC there is good representation between importers and 

exporters; and big, medium, and small organizations. He reiterated his belief that the group 

should work to identify behavioral and structural changes that will benefit all shippers. 

NSAC Vice Chair Kenneth O’Brien thanked all Committee members for volunteering 

their time to the Committee’s work and their work is meaningful. The system will not change on 

its own, and the NSAC needs to do this work to effect change. The solutions the Committee

develops must be fair and right for everyone.

Adjournment 

Following the closing remarks from NSAC leadership, the DFO stated that all agenda 

items had been covered and adjourned the meeting.