National Shipper Advisory Committee

Committee Meeting

March 9, 2022

1:00-3:00 pm Eastern Time

Minutes

Introduction and Determination of Quorum

Dylan Richmond, the NSAC’s Designated Federal Officer (DFO), opened the meeting, 

announced a quorum had been reached, and the meeting could proceed.

Remarks from NSAC Leadership

Michael Symonanis, NSAC Vice Chair, encouraged the public to review the work of the 

Committee and Subcommittees, and to submit comments or recommendations. This is to ensure 

the Committee’s recommendations reflect various perspectives across industries, regions, and 

geographies. The public can submit comments to the NSAC at nsac@fmc.gov. 

Update from the Data Sharing and Visibility Subcommittee

The Data Sharing and Visibility subcommittee chair, Gabriel Rodriguez, stated that the group 

had conducted three exploratory meetings to date. The first of these was held to learn about the

Port of Los Angeles’s port optimizer to discuss how this system provides visibility to their 

customers and what data they currently collect. Members hoped to uncover ways that this 

optimizer could be adopted by other stakeholders, with elements perhaps being able to inform a 

national portal. Members also met to discuss how to utilize digital technology for tracking cargo 

and how to develop national standards on industry metrics and definitions. 

Going forward, the subcommittee will work to develop recommendations that will increase data 

sharing and visibility across the supply chain. These recommendations will focus on 1) 

reinforcing the Federal Maritime Commission’s (FMC) authority to ensure a reliable ocean 

transport system and prevent an unreasonable increase in transport service costs and 2) 

considering the establishment of a national port authority or supply chain authority to ensure the 

creation of national data standards and integrity. The subcommittee chair underscored they are 

not looking for a specific solution, but instead are focusing on ensuring all necessary data points 

will be encompassed in any solution(s) that may be produced from their efforts.

Comments on the above were solicited from all Committee members and the public present at

the meeting. Members expressed their appreciation of the subcommittee’s research into a range 

of methods and tools that can be utilized to meet their objectives. The Committee Vice Chair 

suggested the subcommittee review discussions being held outside the FMC and NSAC to 

prevent duplication of efforts. The NSAC Chair also expressed the need to avoid any of the 

Committee’s recommendations being contradictory. 

One member asked the subcommittee to identify any potential quick wins. The subcommittee
chair suggested the development of a national data portal as such an opportunity given 

significant interest from the White House and other parties seeking a working model by year end.

Update from the Fees and Surcharges Subcommittee

Rich Roche, chair of the Fees and Surcharges subcommittee, stated the subcommittee’s first task 

was to align their interests with that of the ongoing Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking

(ANPRM) at the FMC regarding detention and demurrage. At their first meeting, members 

discussed rail storage issues and what government agency holds jurisdiction when intermodal 

cargo is with a railroad (or other intermodal service provider) yet on a bill of lading with an 

ocean carrier. Some members expressed a belief that this could fall under the FMC’s purview

given other government agencies’ denial of having such authority. Other issues discussed 

included terminal dwell fees and the difficult nature of defining the term “Merchant” when

determining the party (or parties) responsible for unpaid invoices. 

In their most recent meeting, the subcommittee worked to develop a recommendation that the 

FMC make a formal statement on their jurisdiction over rail transportation for intermodal cargo, 

when the rail move is contracted by the ocean carrier. Other issues discussed included: dwell fees 

from ports and terminals, miscellaneous port fees, government holds, ambiguous language used 

across the industry to define fees, frequently changing vessel schedules, merchant clauses, and 

IPI box rules. The subcommittee chair stated merchant clauses can potentially be abused and 

parties may be billed for fees for which they should not be held financially responsible. This 

issue is one the subcommittee will continue to define and clarify. 

The subcommittee chair reiterated support of detention and demurrage charges when they serve 

to incentivize the fluid movement of cargo but stated these charges can be abused and applied in 

situations where they clearly fail in this regard. A similar stance was adopted toward government 

holds on cargo, with the subcommittee chair stating they have a punitive element to them, and 

the risk should be shared by all parties given their random nature. 

Summary of Written Comments from the Public

The DFO stated there are no comments to report at present and encouraged members of public to 

reach out and provide comments or suggestions to the Committee via nsac@fmc.gov.

Closing Remarks

The NSAC Chair requested to hear any objection to forming a third subcommittee to discuss

“box rules” (informal method railways and carriers coordinate with each other at railheads) per 

Rich’s request. No objections made were voiced, but the Chair stated this matter would be 

brought up again in a subsequent meeting following further internal discussion. 

A member stated they would like to ensure adequate communication between the two established 

subcommittees as data visibility, availability, and standardization is important in ensuring 

resolution of issues surrounding detention and demurrage charges. The Chair and Vice Chair 
supported this notion and stated they have set up the committees in such a way to ensure their 

objectives dovetail and their work is aligned. 

It was announced that the next full Committee meeting would be in-person in Washington, DC, 

in April.

Adjournment 

Committee Member Attendees:

Brian Bumpass – NSAC Chair

Michael Symonanis – NSAC Vice Chair

Rich Roche – Fees and Surcharges Subcommittee Chair

Gabriel Rodriguez – Data Sharing and Visibility Subcommittee Chair

Michael Brock

Rick DiMaio

Scott Fremont

Steve Hughes

Alison Leavitt

Peter Mento

Debb Minskey

Ken O’Brien

Adnan Qadri

Colin Yankee

Justin Cauley

Bob Connor

Chris Crutchfield

Sean Healy

Alexis Jacobson

Fernando Lagonell

Dan Miller

Jen Morrissey

Dylan Richmond – Designated Federal Officer, Federal Maritime Commission

Signed:

__________________________________________

Brian Bumpass

Chair

National Shipper Advisory Committee

August 8, 2022