- -

1496 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 10, 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 

TUESDAY, Februar-]J· 10, 1885. 

The llouse met at 12 o'clock m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. JOHN 

S. LINDSAY, D. D. 

The Journal of the proceedings of Saturday, February 7, was read. 

The SPEA)rEU pro ti:m.pore. Without objection, the J onrnal as read 

will be approved. 

:Mr. KELLEY. Mr. Speaker, I desire' to ask that the Journal as read 

be amended in that portion of the proceedings of yesterday which refers 

to what occurred between one of the assistant sergeants-at-arms of the 

House and the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WHITE]. 

After stating that the Sergeant-at-Arms returned for his mace and 

passed up the aisle, ~t says "th.e gentleman from Kentuck~ ~k his 

seat." '.fhat is a miStake, and It should state the truth, which Is that 

when the member from Kentucky saw the party who had assailed him 

pass beside the Speaker's chair and assume the mace he took his seat; so that the Journal should read ''he had taken his seat,'' and not that 

he took his seat under the constraint of the Sergeant-at-Arms with the 

mace in his hand. 

This much is due to the gentle~an from Kentucky. I can have no personal feeling in suggesting thi~ amendment which is due to him. The 

House knows that there can have been no personal relations between 

bini and me for some years past, w bile I know I am ready to bear testimony that I have never experienced anything but courtesy from the 

gentleman, whom I think was yesterday a grave aggressor upon the 

dignity and decorum of the House. 

I move that the Journal be amended by striking on t the word '' took'' 

and inserting ''had t.1.ken,'' or such form of words as may be necess.·uy 

to make the correction I have suggested. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that this matter 

should be correct in the Journal, and I am equally sure that it is correct as it now stands. It is a mistake on the part of the gentlemen on the other side of the House, perhaps on this side, that the mace, Cromwell's old bauble, is the only symbol of authority. It is only the outward emblem of the inward authority of the Speaker; and when the 

Speaker sent the Sergeant-at-Arms, without having the mace in his possession, down to the member from Kentucky, be had the right under 

the fourth paragraph of Rule XIV to do just what he did; and I wish that 

rille had been read in- the hearing of the Bouse on yesterday, as it 

might have 8aved the motion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania. 

That clause of the rule in question is as follows: · 

· l. If any member, in speaking or otberlYise, tr~nsgress t.he ru.les of ~he House, -the-Speaker shall, or any member may, co.ll him to o~r; m wh1ch case he 

shall immediately sit down. 

It does not follow that he shall be approached with the mace if he is 

approached by the authority of the Speaker in .the person of the officer 

of the House; aml the Speaker-on yesterday said, as the RECORD will 

show, that he had directed the Sergeant-at-Arms to see that the gentleman-from Kentucky was seated. All was done in kindness and gentleness by the Speaker pro tempore toward his colleague. There is 

nothing to complain -of. Nobody can complain of either the Speaker 

nro tempore or the Speaker himself in their treatment of the gentleman 

from Kentucky; and the only complaint is that they have exceeded in 

lenity and not in severity. [Applause on the Democratic side.] 

Mr. KELLEY. I do not desire to discuss the doctrine of this case at this time. A time will come for that. All that I now ask is that 

the Journal, which should be a faithful record of the proceedings of the 

Honse, shall state the facts as they actually occurred. · The gentl~man from Kentucky did refuse to take his sea~ upon the 

order of a man who had laid violent hands upon him and bore no symbol of office. When, however, that citizen left hin1 to assume evidence that he was an officer of the House and under the Speaker's 

command the gentleman took his. seat; and when the representative 

of the Sergeant-at-Arms approached or turned to approach the gentle- man from Kentucky he was, as all the gentlemen around us here w.ell 

know and wjll say, already in his seat. And the Journal should show, 

not that he took hiS seat under official constraint, but that, if he had 

made a mistake in assuming that no citizen had the right to force him 

by violence off his feet when addressing the Chair-when he saw that 

the authority ofthe House was speaking to him he had taken his seat; 

and I ask that this correction be made in the J onrnal. 

1\Ir. CONVERSE. Will the gentleman from Pennsylvania permit me a question? 

Mr. KELLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CONVERSE. I would like to inquire of the gentleman from 

Pennsylvania, who has had long and wide experience in parliament..'U'J' 

law, whether there is any rule of the law which requires an officer of 

this House to carry with him the maee or other sy~bol of authority 

when he is obeying the instructions of the presiding officer of the House or when sen;ing a writ or process or perfor:Ql.ing any other duty that he 

is by the Thw required to perform? 

1\Ir. KELLEY. As there will be, Mr. Speaker, time enough to ·dis- cuss that question when it arises, I shall not proceed to discuss it n<fw. 

The question before us is whether the Journal states the facts as they 

occurred or whether it misrepresents them. I ask that it state them 

correctly. 

Mr. REAGAN. The Journal is correct as read. It states the facts as they occurred. The only pretense for making this question is a purely technical one, which ignores the actual facts of the case. The gentleman from Kentucky k-new the Sergeant-at-Arms as well as the Speaker and every other member of the Honse knew him. He 

heard the order of the Speaker to the Sergeant-at-Arms to cause him 

to be seated. The pretense now that he did not bring the mace is, I 

repeat, a mere technical pretense, in order to make an issue to the disadvantage of the Speaker when he had discharged the duty which devolved upon him-with perhaps the exception stated by the gentleman 

from New York [Mr. Cox], that he extended too much leniency and 

listened too long to the abuse of the patience of the House. 

l\Ir. REED, of l\Iaine, rose. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman from Texas yield? 

1\b. REAGA.l~. I was going to move, and I do move, to lay the pro. 

posed motion to correct the Journal on the taBle. 

1\Ir. REED, of Maine, addi·essed the Chair. 

The SPEAKER pro te-mpore. The motion to lay on the tabl~ is not 

debatable. 

1\Ir. REED, of Maine. I think the gentleman from Texas will kindly 

withdraw his motion for a moment. 

l\lr. REAGAN. I would be glad to hear the views of the gentleman 

from l\L'line, but we have a great deal of important business and we should not waste more time on this matter. 

1\Ir. REED, of l\Iaine. I simply desire one moment. , The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will stoa.te the motion of the 

gentleman from Texas, as the gentleman from Maine well knows, is not 

debatable. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. K.E'ILEY] has 

moved to correct the Journal--

Mr. REED, of 1\Iaine. I wouldlikeiostate-- [Cries of" Regular 

order!"] . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is not debatable, as the 

gentleman from l\Iaine knows perfectly well. The ge1;1tleman from 

Pennsylvania [l\lr. KELLEY} .has moved to correct the Journal.as indicated, and the gentleman from Texas moves to lay that motion on the table. 

The question being tn.ken on l\Ir. REAGAN'S motion, there were- ayes 138. noes 94. · 

1\Ir. KELLEY. I call for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will call the roll. 

l\Ir. WASHBURN. Before the roll is called I would like to have the 

clause of the J ourual which it is proposed to correct reported ag~in. 

The SPEAKER pro tentpore. Unless there be objection it will be 

again read. 

Several members objected, and called for the general order. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I am satisfied so far as I am concerned. [Cries 

of" Hegular order!"] 

The question was taken; and there were-yeas 164, nays 95, not voting 64; as follows: 

Adams, J. J. 

Aiken, AlexatHler, 

Arnot, 

Bagley, 

Ballentine, 

Barbour, 

Barksdale, 

Beach, 

Belmont, 

Bennett, 

Blackburn, 

Blanchard, 

Bland, 

Blount, 

Boyle, 

Bratton, 

Bre.ckinridge, 

Broadhead, 

Buchanan, 

Buckner, 

Cabell, 

Campbell, J. E. 

Candler, Carleton, 

Clardy, 

Clay, 

Cobb, 

Collins, 

Converse, 

Cosgrove, 

Covington, 

Cox, S. S. 

Cox,W.R. 

-Crisp, 

Dargan, 

Davidson, 

Deus~r, 

Dibble, 

Dibrell, 

Dockery, 

YEA8-164. 

Dorsheimer, 

Dowd , Dunn, 

Eaton, 

Eldredge, 

Ellis, English, 

Ermentrout, 

Ferrell, 

Findlay, 

Follett, 

Foran, 

Forney, 

Fyan, Geddes, 

Gibson, 

Glascock, 

Graves, 

Green, 

Halsell, Hammond, 

Hardeman, 

Hardy, 

H a tch, W.H. Hewitt, A. S. 

Hewitt, G. W. Hill 

Hol:Uan, Hopkins, 

Houseman, 

Hurd, Hutchins, 

Jones, B. W. 

Jones,J.H. 

Jones,J.K. 

..Jones,J.T. 

King, 

Kleiner. 

La mb, 

Lanham, 

Lewis; 

Lore, Lovering, 

Lowry, 

Mcl\Iillin, 

Matson, 

Maybury, 

1\liUer,J.F. 

Mills, 

Mitchell, 

1\Ioney, 

:!\I organ, :Moulton, 

Muldrow, 

Muller, 

1\Iurphy, 

1\Iurrny, 

Mutchler, 

Neece, 

Nicholls, 

Oates, Ocbiltree, 

O'Ferrall, 

Paige, P a tton, 

Peel, Pierce, 

Post, Pryor, 

Pusey, Randall, 

Reagan, Reid , J. W. 

Riggs, 

Robertson 

Rogers, J. H. 

Rogers, W.F . Rosecrans, 

Seney, 

Seymour, 

Shively, 

Singleton, 

Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Springer, 

Stevens, 

Stewart, Charles 

Stockslager, 

Sumner, C. A. Sumner, D. II. Swope, 

Talbott, 

Taylor,J. M. Thompson, 

Tillman, 

Townshend, 

Tucker, 

Tully, 

Turner, H. G. Va.n Alstyne, Vance, 

VanEaton, 

Wallace, 

Ward, 

Warner, Richard 

'Varner,A.J. 

'Vea.ver, 

Wellborn, 

Wemple, 

'Vilkins, 

Williams, 

Willis, 

Wilson, Jame3 

Wilson, W. L. 

'Vinans, E. B. 

Winans, John 

Wise, G. D. 'Volford, 

Wood, Woodward, 

Worthington. 

Yaple, 

York. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-HOUSE. 1497 

Adams, G. E. 

Anderson, 

Atkinson, 

Bayne, 

:Bingham, 

:Bisbee, 

Boutelle, 

Brei tung, Brewer, F. B. 

Brewerd;H. 

Brown,w. W. 

Browne, T. M. 

Budd, 

Campbell, J.l'II. 

Cassidy, 

Connolly, 

Craig, 

Cu1bertson, W. ,V. 

Cullen, 

Cutcheon, 

D&vis,R. T. 

Da.vis,L.H. 

Dingley, 

Dunham, 

Ellwood, 

Evans, 

Everhart, 

Finerty, 

Funston, 

George, 

Goff, 

Greenleaf, 

Guenther, 

Hanback, 

Hart, 

Hatch, H. H. 

Haynes, . Hemphill, 

Hepburn, 

Hiscock, 

Hilt, 

Holmes, 

Horr, 

Houk, 

Howey, 

Hunt, 

Jeffords, 

Johnson, 

NAYB-95. 

Kean, 

Keifer, 

Kelley, 

Lawrence, 

Long, 

Lyman, 

McCoid, 

1\IcComas, 

McCormick, 

Millard, 

Nelson, 

Nutting, 

O'Hara, 

O'Neill, Charles · :Payne, 

p kins P!'fers, ' 

Pettibone, 

Phelps, 

Poland, 

Price, 

Ray,G.W. 

Ray Ossian 

Reed, T. B. 

NOT VOTING-64. 

Rowell, 

Ryan, 

Skinner,T.G. 

Smjth, A. Herr 

Smitb,H.Y. 

Spooner, 

Steele, 

Stephenson, 

Stewart, J. W. 

Storm, 

Strait, 

Struble, 

Taylor, E. B. 

Taylor, J.D. 

Thomas, 

Valentine, 

Wadsworth, . Wait, 

Wakefield, 

'Vashburn, 

White, J.D. 

White, Milo 

Whiting. 

Barr, Elliott, Lacey, Reese, 

Belford, Fiedler, Laird, Rice, 

Bowen, Garrison, LeFevre~ Robinson, J. S. 

Brainerd, Hancoek, Libbey, Robinson, W.E. 

Brumm HM"IDer, McAdoo, Roekwell, 

Burleigh, Henderson, D. B. 1tliller,S.H. Russell, 

Burnes, Henderson, T. J. Milliken, Shaw, 

Caldwell, Henley, 1\:lorrill, Skinner, C. R. 

Campbell, Felix Herbert, Morrison, Slocum, 

Cannon, Hoblitzell, Morse, Smalls, 

Chalmers, Holton, O'Neill, J. J. Stone, 

Clements, Hooper, Parker, Throekmorton, 

Cook, Jru:nes, Payson, Turner, Oscar 

Culberson, D. B. Jordan, Potter, Weller, 

Curtin, Kellogg, Rankin, · Wise, J. S. 

Davis, G. R. Ketcham, Ranney, Young. 

So the motion to correct the J our:1al was laid on the table. 

The following members were announced as paired on all political 

questions until further notice: , Mr. MORRISON with Mr. LIBBEY. Mr~ SHAW with 1rlr. LAIRD. 

Mr. GARRISON with Mr. BARR. 

Mr. RANKIN with :Mr. KELLOGG. 

Mr. HERBERT with Mr. LACEY. 

The following. pairs were also announced: 

Mr. CALDWELL with Mr. BRUMM, on this vote. 

Mr. DAVIS, of Illinois, with Mr. O'NEILL, of :Missouri, on this vote. 

Mr. BoYLE with Mr. HENDER!?ON, of Iowa, for to-day. 

The result of the vote was then announced as above stated. 

Mr. REAGAN moved to reconsider the vote just taken; and also 

moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Mr. KEIFER rose. [Cries of ''Regular order!"] 

Tb:e SPEAKER pro tempore. · If there be no further objection, the 

Journal will stand approved. 

Mr. KEIFER. I object. I now move that theChairappointacommittee of five members to examine and report upon the question of fact, as made by members around me, wi lh 1·eference to the proeeedings yesterday in connection with the Sergeant-at-Arms and the gentleman from 

Kentucky [Mr. WHITE]. I may state, in support of this motion, that it 

is in accordance with the rule in the English Parliament; indeeed, it is 

the only way to have the fact recorded, and it is the right of every member, no matter what thejudgmentof the House may be, to have the facts 

recorded. The House has no right to vote, by a majority vote, that a fact which has occurred in its proceedings shall not be recorded in the 

Journal. 

Mr. REAGAN. Mr. Speaker, I move to lay the motion made by the 

gentleman from Ohio [Mr. KEIFER] on the table. 

1t1r. TOWNSHEND. I call for the regular order, Mr. Speaker. 

'.Fhe motion of the gentleman frem Texas [.l\Ir. REAGAN] is not debatable. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Ohio [Mr. KEIl!'ER] moves that the Chair appoint a committee of five members to ex- amine and report as to the correctness of the Journal as read by the 

Clerk. That motion the gentleman from Texas [Ur. REAGAN] inoves 

to lay on the table. 

Mr. THOMPSON. Is the motion subject to the point of order? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thinks that it is too late to 

make the point of order. The question is on the motion of the gentleman from Texas [Mr. REAGAN] tolay upon the table the motion of 

the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. KEIFER]. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. l\Ir. Speaker, does the gentleman from Texas 

(Mr. REAGAN] have the right to make that motion while the gentle- man from Ohio [Mr. KEIFER] is on the floor? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair understood that the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. KEIFER] had concluded his remarks. 

Mr. KEIFER. I had not concl,uded, l\lr. Speaker. 

The SPEA.KER pro tempore. The gentleman had made his mo- tion, and in the silence that ensued, the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. 

lrxrFER] not addressing the Chair, the gentleman from Texas [Mr. 

REAGAN] rose and made the motion to lay on the table. 

Mr. KEIFER. I paused, Mr. Speaker, for the purpose of having 

the Chair state the question, w)lich had not been stated up to that 

time; and before the Chair had stated the question the gentleman from 

Texas [Mr. REAGAN] took the floor to move to lay my motion on the 

table. I claim the right to have the Chair state · the motion that I 

have made, and then to proceed to discuss it. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair does not recognize the right 

of the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. KEIFER] to require such service at 

the hands of the Chair until he has concluded his remarks; but in order 

to be entirely fair, the Chair will hear the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. 

KEIFER) further. - Mr. KEIJ[ER. Mr. Speaker, I do not make this motion in any captious spirit at all--

Mr. McMILLIN. 1\Ir. Speaker-- . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Ohio [Mr. KEIFER] is recognized. 

Mr. McMILLIN. But before he discusSes the proposition the point 

of order can be entertained. . The SPEAKER pro te-mpore. The Chair will overrule the point of 

order if the gentleman desires to make it, and will hear the gentleman 

from Ohio (Mr. KEIFER]. 

Mr. McMILLIN. I was about to reserve the point of orde~. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has passed upon it, and the 

gentleman from Ohio will proceed. 

Mr. KEIFER. I do not make this motion in any captious sense at 

all, nor to occupy the time of the House, but to preserve th~ integrity 

of the records of the proceedings of this House. I do not know personally the facts in relation to this matter that is claimed to have been 

omitted from the Journal, but all around me, I may say regardless ot party~ there is concurrence in ·this: that the gentleman from Kentucky 

[Ur. WHITE] took his seat before the Sergeant-at-Arms arrived with 

the mace. 

Now, whether that is correct or not depends upon the facts as they 

may be disclosed L.v a large number of honomble gentlemen here. The 

point I make, Mr. Speaker, is that it is not the right of a majority of 

this House to say that a fact which concerns the proceedings of this 

House and is a tmrl ·of them shall not be recorded upon the Journal. 

Indeed, I think that the House, with a little deliberation, would not 

attempt to prevent a record being made of the proceedings as they took 

place. There may well be a difference of opinion as to what did take 

place; it may be that a majority of the House, either from not knowing 

anything about the matter,-or from information received, might vote 

down a motion such as that submitted'by the distinguished gentleman 

from Pennsylvania [Mr. KELLEYl; but in parliamentary bodies when- ever there is an allegation of inaccuraey in the Journal, or of omission 

from the Journal, it has been the practice to 'appoint a committee to inquire into the facts and report to the -House, in order that the-Journal 

might be -corrected. The Journal is of that sort of paramount im portance that in the organic act of the nation it is made mandatory upon 

each House of Congress to keep ajournal of its proceedingS. Now, is 

that journal to be kept in accordance with the vote of the majority of 

the House,·in accordance with their wish as to what shall be recorded, 

in accordance with the whim of the majority of the House (if I may 

use the expression) at the time the record is made up, or is it to be 

kept in accordance with the fact? To illustrate, suppose t.he gentle- man from Texas [1\Ir. REAGAN], or any other gentleman, has an important proceeding here upon a bill, and it is entirely omitted from the 

Journal by mistake or otherwise, I insist that that gentleman himself, 

even if no other member agrees with him, has a right to have the Journal show exactly what did take place-precisely what did take place. 

It is not for the judgment of the House to determine whether or not it 

shall go upon the"I'ecord, but whether it is the fact. 

This, lli. Speaker, comprises substantially all I desire to say. It is 

laid down in Jefferson's Manual, page 139, that in eases of this kind 

the House may take proceedings to have the facts ascertained which 

should go upon the Journal. The language is: 

On information of a misenb-y or omission of an entry in the journal, a com- mittee may be appointed to examine and rectify it and report it to the House. 

I now yield five minutes to the gentleman from Maine [Mr. REED]. 

Mr. REAGAN. 1\fr. Speaker, how does this debate come up? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The motion 9f the gentleman from 

Ohio is that a committee of five members be appointed to inquire into 

the facts and report to this House as to the correctness or incorrectness 

of its Journal. 

Mr. REAGAN. I moved to lay that motion on the table. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will repeat the statement 

already made, that the Chair, supposing the gentleman from Ohio had 

finished his remarks, recognized the gentleman from Texas [Mr. REA.-

GAN],who moved to lay the motion of the gentleman froni Ohio on the 

table. But the gentleman from Ohio, claiming that injustice was done 

him, the Chair, in order to be entirely fair, recognized the gentleman 

from Ohio to proceed again. That gentleman now seems to be claiming an hour, and is yielding certain time to other members. 

Mr. ROBERTSON. Has be the right to do so under the rules? 
1498 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 10, 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will say that it is the gentleman's right, if he claims it, under the circumstances. Mr. ROBERTSON. Does he claim it? · 1tfr. KEIFER. Not the whole hour_; no. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has recognized the gentleman from Ohio. 

Mr. KEIFER. I yield five minutes to the gentleman from :Maine 

[Mr. REED]. . 

Mr. REED, of Jtlaine. Jtfr. Speaker, the only anxiety I feel about 

this matter is "that 'the House should do itself justice. This is not a. 

matter of personal popularity or personal unpopularity. It is a question of what is due to the House in the statement of a fact upon its Journal. I simply desire to say to the House that I was personally an eyewitness of the transaction, and that the Journal does not, ~ccording to 

my recollection, state the fact as it occusred. 

I do not desire for one moment to enter into the question of the right or wrong of the transaction; that will come up under another form of 

proceedings. But here is a proposition to correct a missta.tement in·the 

Journal It seems to me the House owes it to itself to make that cor- rection in some form or other. I do :not know that a word need be added 

to what I have said. The Honse ought to ascertain whether the cor- rection should be made, if there is any dispute. 

Jtfr. KEIFER. I yield five minutes to the gentleman from Georgia 

[Mr. HAMMOND]. 

Mr. HAMMOND. MF. Speaker, I shall be obliged to vote for this 

resolution, because it is proper, without any regarrd to who is right as to the matter of fact. There is an issue, and the only way to try that 

issue is before a committee. We have no standing committee that has 

jurisdiction ofthis question; therefore a special committee ought. to be 

appointed. . I may believe that the Journal is exactlycorrect; other gentlemen 

believe it is wrong. The fact that anybody feels an interest in having it corrected creates a necessity for ascertaining the truth. This is 

but a repetition, for the purpose of emphasis, of what I have already 

said. 

Jtfr. KEIFER. I now yield five minutes to the gentleman from 

Indiana. [Mr. LQWBY]. 

Mr~ LOWRY. Mr. Speaker, upon this question valuable time is 

being consumed which there is an imperative demand should be devoted to the transaction of the public business. Ihaveconversed with 

several gentlemen on this side of the Honse, and I find the opinion to 

prevail generally that the shortest and quickest way out of this imbroglio will be to adopt the motion of the gentleman from Ohio-appoint this committee, and let a report be made in regard to the facts 

touching this transaction, and thus dispose of it without consuming 

the time of the House. 

Mr. KEIFER. I now desire to yield for a moment to the gentleman 

from Pennsylvania [Mr. KELI,EY]. 

Mr. KELLEY. Mr. Speaker-- . Mr. O'NEILL, of Missouri. I rise to a point of order. Was not a motion made to lay on the table? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. That motion is not before the House. 

The gentleman from Pennsylvania. will proceed. 

Mr. KELLEY. Mr. Speaker, I began the remarks with which ·r preceded my motion on this subject by disclaiming all personal feeling in 

this matter. I can not do so at this time: I have a deep personal interest in this question as now presented. I have made a stat~ment as to a matter of fact which I had witnessed, and which was witnessed by 

my neighbors all around me. This honored member of the Democratic 

party who now stands near me, the gentleman from LQuisiana [Mr. 

HUNT], stood as near as I did to the scene of the transaction, and would, 

I am quite sure, tell a committee that my statement was to the letter 

accurate. 

Jtfr. HUNT. I believe the gentleman's statement was correct. 

Jtfr. KELLEY. I believed the gentleman would say so. The man himself who came as a citizen and claimed to be executing an order addressed to an officer of the House, and whose conduct has given rise to 

this discussion, has, if I am not misinformed by several gentlemen, said 

that my statement of the facts was accurate. 

As has been said, it is due to the member involved that the Journal 

sh.'lll speak of him truthfully. It.is due to the honor of the House, in 

whose behalf! proposed the amendment, that it-shall recite the truth 

and not falsely record the angry impulse of a majority on the floor. 

Therefore I ask as a measure of justice to the House that the parliamentary usage of a committee to inquire where in a moment of excitement an issue has been raised shall be followed so it may be corrected. 

l'!fr. REAGAN rose. 

. Mr. KEIFER retained the floor. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair desires to know what the 

gentleman from Ohio proposes to do ? 

Mr. KEIFER. . I do not propose to occupy any more time at present. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman must occupy his time or yield the fioor. 

Jtfr. KEIFER. I yield a moment to the gentleman from Minnesota. 

Jtfr. WASHBURN. Mr. Speaker, I only desire to say that I think 

this is a case of much ado about nothing. Just as it now stands it seems 

to me it is beyond the authority of the other side of the Honse, or of this 

Honse, to do anything except to go forward and have thi committee 

appointed and the fact ascertained. 

lfr. O'NEILL, of Missouri. . We will not do anything, of course, if 

we take up the whole time with this trash. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I sat in my seat, and I know, unless my; senses misled me, that the statement in the Journal is not correct. Now, can any one of us afford to refuse to have that correction made? I can not see that anybody is to be harmed by it. Let the correction be made 

and let the Journal stand as a true record of our proceedings. 

Mr. OATES. Let me ask the gentleman a question. 

Mr. WASHBURN. And then let us proceed to business. So far as I am concerned, I have heard en~ ugh of this whole trifling proceeding. 

Jtfr. OATES. Let me ask the gentleman a question. 

Mr. KEIFER. I yield the floor for the present. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Ohio has yielded 

the floor. [After- a pause.] The Chair recognizes the gentleman from 

Texas. 

Jtfr. WASHBURN. I yield for a question. 

Mr. REAGAN. I am, willing to yield fora question. 

Jtfr. OATES. Is not the Journal correct so far as it goes, the trouble 

being in the fact that it is not explicit? ["No ! " from the Republican side.] It states the Sergeant-at-Arms went and got his mace and 

then returned, and that, after he had returned, Mr. WHITE took his 

seat. If you had inserted the wotds that 1\fr. WHITE had taken his 

seat "before the deputy sergeant-at-arms had again reached him," 

you would have the whole thing. It is not an error in what is stated, 

but in notsta11ing enough to make it explicit. · l\fr. REAGAN. Now I desire to go on. The SPEAKER pm tempore. The gentleman from Tex::tS is recognized. 

1\fr. REAGAN. · M:r. Speaker, the whole of this means that gentle- men on the other side of the House, for the protection of the man who 

has been interrupting the proceedings of the House and producing unnecessary delays by a course of conduct that ought not to · have been 

tolerated, now desire to dictate to the Democrats on this side that they 

shall make an apology for the Speaker having performed his duty as he 

did. That is all there is of it. The Sergeant-at-Arms by the command 

of the Speaker went to the desk of that member and tried to get him to 

take his seat after he was called to order and requested to do so by the 

Spealrer; but he refused to be seated. The Sergeant-at-Arms went back 

to his desk and got his mace, under the idea perhaps that it would add 

to his authority; butw'hen he returned thememberwasseated. It seems to me we ought not to consume .(Dither time, that common decency, in 

view of the history of this tra.nsictio.n, forbids that we should go on to 

spend more time on this subject. 

It is asserted that it is an outrage on personal rights. Now, if the 

question of right could be considered, the whole question of right, we would consider the outrage on the rights of this House and on the interests of this country by delaying its proceedings day after day by dilatory and filibustering motions. 

1\fr. BOUTELLE. By whom? 

M:r. REAGAN. By the very gentleman youarenowt-r:ying to make a martyr of; the gentleman you put up-the gentleman Mr. REED 

put up. I am tired of seeing Democrats rise here and apologize for 

efforts on the part of the majority in trying to control this House. 

[Applause on the Democratic side.] It has .been our fate long 

enough--

Jtfr. REED, of Maine, rose. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Texas will sus- pend. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. I desire the words of the gentleman from 

Texas be taken down. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The words will be taken down. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I rise to a question of order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. 

Jtfr. WHITE, of Kentuck'"Y. The gentleman fmm Texas has been 

called to order, and he has not taken his seat while the words are being 

taken down. • The SPEAKER pro tempo1·e. The words of the gentleman from Texas 

have been called for, and when they have been supplied by the Official 

Reporter they will be read. The gentleman from Texas having been 

called to ·order will take his seat. [Laughter.] 

Jtfr. REAGAN. .Let the words be taken down if the gentleman 

wants them. 

The SPEAKER pro temp01·e. The gentleman from Texas will sus- pend until the language of the gentlem~ has been reported to the 

Honse. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentuck--y. I rise to a question of order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. M:r. WHITE, of Kentucky. I make the point of order that under the rule itself the only privilege of the gentleman from Texas now is to 

take his seat until the words are repol'ted to the HouSe. I call the attention of the Chair to the fact thq.t the gentleman is still standing. [Laughter.] . The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. The Chair will state that it is in order 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 1499 

• for every member on the floor to take his seat; and the Sergeant-atArms will see that all members are seated. 

Mr. REAGAN. Since the gentleman from Kentuc1..~ is so sensitive 

about the rules, I will take my seat. (Laughter.] · 

[The assistant sergeant-at-arms, with the mace in his hands, proceeded through the Hall until order was restored and members had resumed their seats.] 

The SPEAKER p1·o temp01·e. The Glerk will read the language to 

which the gentleman from 1\laine excepts. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

1\Ir. BOUTELLE. By whom? 

Mr. REAGAN. Bv the very gentleman you are now trying to make a martyr 

of; the gentlemati you put up-the gentleman Mr. REED put up. I am tired of 

seeing Democrats rise here and apologize for efforts on the part of the major- ity in trying to control this House. [Applause on the Democratic side.] It has 

been our fate long enough. 

* * * * * * • Mr. REED, of Maine. I ask that the gentleman's words be taken down. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will now read clause 5 of 

Rule XIV. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

5. If a member is called to order for words spoken in debate, the member 

calling him to order shall indicate the words excepted to,· and they shall be 

taken down in writing at the Clerk's desk and read aloud to the House; but he 

shall not be held to answer, nor be subject to the censure of the House therefor, U further debate or other business has inten·ened. 

The SPEAKeR p1·o tempore. The Clerk will now read clause 4 of 

the same rule. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

If any member, in SI>eaking or otherwise, transgress the rules of the House, 

the Speaker shall, or any member may, call him to order; in which case he shall immed~tely sit down, tmles.;; permitted, on motion.of another member, to ex- plain, and the House shall, if appealed to, decide on the case without debate; 

if the decision is in favor of the member called to order,he shall be at liberty to proceed, but not otherwise; and if the case require it he shall be liable to 'cen- sure or SU<(_h punishment as the House may deem proper. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Maine [Mr. REED] 

take3 exception to the language of the gentleman from Texas. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. I simply a k the Speaker to rule upon the 

question of order as to the i'ight of the gentleman to mention my name 

in the connection in which it has been mentioned by him. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman from Uaine make 

the point of order that the gentleman from Texas violated the rules of 

the House in using the language read by the Clerk? 

Mr. REED, of Maine. That the gentleman was out of order in making a personal allusion to me in the course of his remarks. 

The SPEAKER p}·o tempore. The Chair does not regard the language 

of the gentleman from Texas as a transgression of the rules of the House 

in the connection in which it was used. 

Mr. RANDALL. I move that the gentleman from Texas be allowed 

to proceed. 

b1r. CASSIDY. In order? 

Mr. COX, of New York. The gentleman from Texas should be allowed to proceed, Mr. Speaker, but I think that the gentleman was out 

of order in naming the gentleman from Maine. I therefore move to 

amend the motion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania by moving that 

the gentleman from Texas be allowed to proceed in order. 

Mr. REED, of .l\'Iaine. That is proper. 

Mr. COX, of New York. The gentleman from Texas was unqnes- tionably.out of order in mentioning by name the gentleman from Maine; 

and although we are in the habit of doing it on. the floor every day, 

w'hen attention i.::; C!\lled to it it is a practice that ought not to be indulged in. 

Mr. REED, of Uaine. I have no resentments or animosities what- ever in the matter; but I think the rule ought· to be enforced with 

regard to members mentioning the names of other members on the 

floor of the House in debate. . . 

Mr. MILLS. Mr. Speaker, I think my colleague from · Texas was perfectly in order in mentioning the name of the gentleman from Maine 

in the manner that he did. It will be remembered that a direct question was asked of my colleague, and in response to that question he 

named the gentleman from Maine. • 

Mr. COX, ofNewYork. Undertherulethe gentleman hadnoright 

to name a member. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has already passed upon 

the point of order, and the gentleman of course has the right to appeal if he ees proper. 

Mr. RAND.f\.LL. The Chait decides that the language of the gentleman from Texas was not out of order. 

1'he SPEAKER pro tempm·e.. Such has been the ruling of the Chair. 

Mr. RANDALL. Now, in view of that decision, from which no appeal was made, I make the motion that the gentleman from Texas be 

allowed to proceed. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. And the gentleman from New York supplements that by a motion that the gentleman be allowed to proceed in order. 

1t1r. REAGAN. I desire to say that I used the name ofthe gentleman from Maine in response to a question; and if that is the objection 

I cheerfully withdraw the personal reference to him. 

l'lfr. REED, of Maine. I han~ n'> hj~ction beyond that. 

Mr. REAGAN. l\Ir. ::=:: c-:~.' : , .. _ I !1 :\·;_· srnt cd once that the motion 

which was offered this morning, and which has been disposed of, did 

no~ embrare the whole question. That was true as far as it went, but 

it did uot embrace the whole case. The circumstances before the llouse 

and all that transpired in reference to it are facts in the knowledge of 

the House. All of the circumstances took place in view of the members of the House and to their personal know ledge, and yet it is proposed that there shall be an investigation by a committee to know what 

are the facts which are already in the knowledge of the House. What 

can we know that we do not now know after a committee .shall act 

upon the subject? I warn Democrats of this side of the House that if 

they consent to this inve;otigation they help to put the·Speaker of this 

House in a false and disagreeable attit1_1de in having done his duty in 

the mildest ·possible mauner; and they undertake to apologize for what 

has been done, not to get new facts, but to get a report from the com- mittee and involve another partisan discussion and waste of time upon 

this subject. · More consumption of time, more waste of time, for it 

has been manifest to this House for days, for two weeks nearly, that 

the purpose was .to defeat necessary legislation and appropriations by 

dilatory and filibustering motions. 

Ur. HJSCOCK. Let me ask the gentleman from Texas if there has 

been any more filibustering on this side, on this bill or on any other 

bill, than there has been on the other side on the Mexican pension bill, on the public-building bills, and other measures that could be named? 

Mr. UEAGAN. 1\:Ir. Speaker, I am discussing the question before 

the House and !do not propose to allow the gentleman from New York 

[Mr. HISCOCK] to lead me into a general discussion. We are now within 

three weeks of the final adjournment. The appropriation bills, many 

of them, are not yet passed. It will require extraordinary expedition 

to pass them. Thegentlemanfrom New York does not need an answer from me; he does not need an answer from any other member, that this 

House has had its time willfully wasted by filibustering and dilatory 

motions. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Mr. SpeakerThe SPEAKER pro tempm·e. Does the gentleman from Texas yield 

to the gentleman from New York? 

Mr. REAGAN. I do not; but I propose to yield to the gentleman 

from Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT]. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I make the pbint that the gentleman from Texas is 

not now speaking in order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from New York is not 

in order. The gentleman from Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT] is entitled to 

the floor . . Mr. BLOUNT. It seems to me this is a very plain matter. !twas 

complained by gentlemen on the other side of the House that the Journal was incorrect in the very small matter as to whether the gentleman 

from Kentucky [Mr. WHITE] was sitting or standing when the officer came the seconcl time with the mace-a very small matter. 

Mr. KEIFER. Let it be corrected then. 

:h1r. BLOUNT. The gentleman from Ohio has bad the floor and will 

allow me to proceed. Thegentlemanfrom Pennsylvania [Mr. KELLEY] 

rose and called that matter to the attention of tliis body; and the opinion of the House was that it was a matter of too small significance to 

be entertained, and it tabled the motion. That is the whole of it. 

I think any gentleman must concede that there is nothing in this 

matter of correcting the Journal in this particular, unlessl as has been 

suggested, it is preliminary to something else behind of which we ~ 

not ad vised. · Now, after the House has deliberately deteqnined that this is a matter of no COQSequence at all and I think every gentleman's judgment 

will lead him to that conclusion, the very moment it is suggested, after 

that has been deliberately done on a yea-and-nay vote, the gentleman 

from Ohio [.Ur. KEIFER] rises and wants to raise a committee to examine this great question. And they are to come back and make their 

report, and whatever further time of this House they are to occupy and 

whatever purposes they may have is then to be di clo ed. 

.Ai3 has been suggested by the gentleman from Texas, weare approaching the end o~ the.session. We have crowded upon us the consideration of many important matters, including appropriation bills, the delay 

of which may involve the country in an extra session of Congress. I 

do believe it is our duty now to close up this small matter and to go on with the business in which the country is so deeply interested. 

Mr. REAGAN. I mo>e to lay the motion of the gentleman from 

Ohio [A1r. KEIFER] on the table, and on that I call the previous question. · A1r. RANDALL. The call for the previous que tion is not necessary. 

Mr. REED, of Maine, rose. The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what purpose does the gentlem~n 

from Maine rise? 

Mr. REED, of Maine. The Chair has decided the gentleman from 

Texas [Mr. REAGAN] was in order in the remarks he made, and it 

would seem unfair they should go unanswered, as they are easily answered. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has no power over that. 

The motion to lay on the table is not debatable. 

Air. REED, of blaine. I appeal to the sen e of £.1tirness of the 

Honse--

- .The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. Debate is not in order. The geutle-

• 
• 

1500 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 10, 

man from Ohio [Mr. KEIFER] moves w appoint a committee of five 

members to decide on the correctnessor incorrectness of the Journal in 

the particular indicated; and the gentleman from Texas [lt:lr. REAGAN] 

moves to lay that motion on the table. 

The question being taken, ~here were-ayes 1~, noes 17. 

Several MEMBERS. No quorum. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The point as to a quorum is not made 

by any gentleman rising from his seat. 

Mr. BOUTELLE, Mr. ANDERSON, and others rose, and. made the 

point that a quorum bad not voted. 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. The Chair recognizes gentlemen for the 

point that a quorum bas not voted when they rise from their seats and 

make it. The Chair will appoint tellers. · Mr. REAGAN. Let us have the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered, 51 members voting therefor. 

The SPEAKER pro te;mpore. The question is on the motion of the 

gentleman from Texas to lay upon the table the motion of the gentleman from Ohio. 

The question was taken; aml there were-yeas 155, na,ys 32, not 

voting 136; as follows: 

YEAS-155. 

Aiken, 

Alexander, 

Arnot, 

Bagley, 

Ballentine, 

Barbour, 

Barksdale, 

Belmont, 

Bennett, 

Blackburn, 

Blanchard, 

Bland, 

Blount, 

Boyle, 

Bmtton, 

Breckinridge, 

Broadhead, 

Buchanan, 

Ca. bell, 

CaJdwell, 

Campbell, Felix 

Campbell, J E. Carleton, 

Clardy, 

Clay, 

Clements, 

Cobb, 

Collins, 

Converse, 

Cosgrove, 

Covington, Cox,s.s: 

Cox, W. R. 

Crisp, 

Davidson, 

Deuster, 

Dibble, 

Dibrell, 

Dorsheimer, 

Adams,J.J. 

Beach, 

Brown,W.W. 

Buckner, Campbell, J. M. 

Candler, 

Cnssidy, 

Dargan. 

Dowd, 

Eaton, Eldredge, 

Ellis 

Engllsh, 

Ermentrout, 

Ferrell, 

Follett, 

Foran, 

Forney, 

Fyan, 

Geddes, 

Gibson, 

Glascock, 

Graves, 

Green, 

Greenleaf, 

Halsell, 

Hardeman, 

Hardy, 

Hatch, W.H. Hemphill, 

Henley, 

Hewitt, A. S. 

Hill 

Hol~an, 

Hopkins, 

Houseman, 

Hurd, 

Jones, B. W. Jones, J. H. Jones, J. K. Joues, J. T. King , Kleiner, 

Lan ham, 

LeFevre, 

Lewis, Lore,. · 

Lovering, 

Lyman, 

1\Icl\lillin, 

Matson, 

lliaybury, 

lliiller, J. F. Mills, Money, Morgan, 

:Morse, 

Moulton, 

1\Iuldrow, 

Muller, 

lUurphy, 

1\furmy, 

Mutchler, 

Neece, 

Nicholls, 

. Oates, 

Ochiltree, 

O'Fermll, 

O'Neill, J. J. Paige, 

Patton, 

Pierce, 

Post, 

Pryor, Pusey, Ra ndal-l, 

Ueagan, 

Reid,J . W. Reese, 

Rig-gs, . Robertson, 

Rogers, J. H. Rogers, W. F. Seney, 

Seymour, 

Shively, 

N.AY8-32. 

Davis, L. H. I.AJ)Vry, 

Dockery, Parker, 

Everhart, Poland, 

Finerty, Potter, 

Hammond, Skinner, C. R. 

Hewitt, G. \V. Sltinner, T. G. 

Hunt, Struble, 

Lawrence, Thomas, 

NOT VOTING-136. 

Adams, G. E. Elliott, Kean, 

Anderson, Ellwood, Keifer, 

Atkinson, Evans, Kelley, 

Barr, Fiedler, Kellogg, 

Bayne, Findlay, Ketcham, 

Belford, Funston, Lacey, Bingham, Garrison, Laird, 

Bisbee; George, Lamb, 

Boutelle, Goff, Libbey, Bowen, Guenther, Long, 

Brainerd, Hapback, 1\:IcAdoo, 

Breitung, Hancock, 1\IcCoid, 

Brewer, F. B. Harmer, McComas, Brewer, J·. H. Hart, McCormick, 

Browne, T.l\1. Hatch, H. H. 1\Iillard, Brumm, Haynes, 1\Iiller, S.H. 

Budd, Hen derson, D. B. Milliken, 

Burleigh, Henderson, T. J. Mitchell, 

Burnes, Hepburn, Morrill, 

Cannon, Herbert, 1\Iorrison, 

Chalmers, Hiscock, Nelson, 

Connolly, Bitt, Nutting, 

Cook, Hoblitzell, O'Hara, 

Craig, Holmes, O'Neill, Charles 

Culberson, D. B. Holton, Payne, 

Culbertson, ,V. ,V. Hooper, Payson. Onllen, Horr, Peel, 

Curtin, Houk, Perkins, 

Cutcheon, Howey, Peters, 

Davis, G. R. Hutchins, Pettibone, 

Davis, R. T. James, Phelps, Dingley, Jeffords, Price, Dunham, Johnson, Rankin, 

Dunn, Jordan, Ranney, 

Singleton, 

Slocum, 

Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Springer, 

Stevens, 

Stewart, Charles 

Stockslager, 

Storm, 

Sumner, D. H. Swope, 

Talbott, 

Taylor, J.M. Thompson; 

Tillman, 

Townshend, 

Tucker, 

Tully, 

Turner, Oscar 

Va,nce, 

Van Eaton, 

'Vnl)ace, 

'Vard, 

'Varner, Richard 

'Veavcr, 

'Veil born, 

"\Vemple, 

'Vilkins, 

Williams, 

Willis, 

Winans, E. B. "'Winans, John 

Wise, G. D. 

'Volford .. Wood , 'Voodward, 

Yaple, 

York. 

Turner, H. G. 

Wait, 

Wakefield, 

'Varner, A. J. 'Vashburn, 

'Vil ou, W. L. 

'Vorthington, 

Young. 

Ray, G. W. 

~d,~]_s_:n 

Rice, 

R~binson, J. S. 

Robinson, W.E. Rockwell, 

Rosecrans, 

R~well, 

Russell, • Ryan, 

Shaw, 

Smalls, 

Smith, A. Herr Smith,H.Y. 

Spooner, 

Steele, 

Stephenson, 

Stewart, J. W. Stone 

Straight, 

Sumner, C. A. Taylor, E. B. Taylor, J.D. Throckmorton, 

Valentine, 

Van Alstyne, 

Wadsworth, 

Weller, 

White, J.D. White, 1\Iilo 

Whiting, 

Wilson, James Wise,J.S. 

Mr. ROBERTSON. I ask unanimous 

the. names be dispensed with. 

consent that the reading of 

Mr. ANDERSON. I object. 

The Clerk read the names of members voting, The result of the 

vote was then announced as above stated. 

:Mr. REAGAN moved to reconsider the vote by which the motion of 

Mr. KEIFER was laid on the table; and also moved to lay that motion on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Unless there be further objection to 

the Journal it will stand approved as read. [After a pause.] The 

Chair hears none, and the Journal is approved. 

1\IESS.AGE FRO::\! THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, informed 

the House that the Senate had passed bills of the following titles; in 

which the concurrence of the House was requested: 

A bill (S. 2084) to amend chapter 464 of the acts of the first session 

of the Forty-seventh Congress, entitled '' An aet to provide for a public building at the city of Fort Wayne, in the State of Indiana;" 

A bill(S. 2342)declamtoryofthemeaningoftheactof July 12, 1866, 

entitled "An act for the relief of Maria Syphax;" and 

A bill (S. 2615) to authorize medals commemorative of the completion 

and dedication of the Washington :Monument. 

The message fUither announced that the Senate had passed with 

amendments, in which the concurrence of the House was requested, a bill (H. R. 5479) to prevent unlawful occupancy of the public lands. 

The me...<;gage also announced that the Senate had adopted a· resolution, 

in which the concUirence of the House was requested, for the printing 

and distribution of additional copies of the treaties and communications 

transmitted to the Senate by the President in his m~e of January 

23, 1885. 

· The message fnrther announced that the Senate had adopted a reso- lution, in which the concUirence of the House was requested, authorizing and requesting the President to communicate to the governments of 

all nations in_ diplomatic relations with the · United States the resolutions .adopted by the international conference held at Washington in 

October, 1884, for the purpose of fixing a prime meridian and a universal day and to invite their accession to the same. 

ELECTORAL COUNT. 

Ur. KING. Mr. Spe..'l.ker--

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. 

KING] will suspend for a moment until the Chair can make an an- nouncement. The Chair announces the appointment of Mr. CL.A Y and 

Mr. KEIFER as tellers on the part of the House, provided for iu the 

concurrent resolution of the two Houses on the subject of CO}lllting the 

votes for President and Vice-President of the United States: 

E..'iROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

1\Ir. NEECE, from ihe Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

they had examined. and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles; 

when the Speaker pro tempore signed the same: Joint resolution (H. Res. 327) providing for the printing of the eulogies deliYercd in Congress upon the late John H. Evins, late a Representative in the Forty-eighth Congress from the State of South Carolina; 

and ' 

A bill (H. R. 5674) for the erection of a public building in the city 

of Tyler, in the St.'l.te of Texas. 

Mr. PETERS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

they had examined and jound truly enrolled bills of the following titles; 

when the Speaker pro tempore signed the same: A bill (H. R. 1339) to increase the appropriation for the erection of 

the public building at Pittsburgh, Pa.; and 

A bill (H. R. 1013) for the erection of a public building at Troy, 

N.Y. 

DAVID'S ISLAND, NEW YORK. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore laid before the House a letter from the 

Secretary _of the Treasury, transmitting an estimate from the Secretary 

of War for the construction of a sea-wall around David's Island, New 

York Harbor; which was referred to the Committee on Appropriations, 

and ordered to be printed. · 

SAINT LOUIS RIVER .AND BAY. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore also laid before the House a letter from · the Secretary ofWar, transmittingareportfrom the Chief of Engineers 

of a survey and examination of· Saint Louis River and Bay, Wisconsin 

and Minnesota; which was referred to-the Committee on Rivers and 

Harbors, and ordered to be printed. 

F ORT POINT CHANNEL, BOSTON. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore also laid before the House a letter from 

the Secretary of War, transmitting reports from the Chief of Engineers 

of a survey and examination of Fort Point Channel, Boston Harbor, 

Massachusetts; which was referred to the Committee on Rivers and 

Harbors, and ordered to be printed. 

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

Mr. HENDERSON, of Iowa, by lmanimous consent, was granted indefinite leave of absence on account of sickness. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-- HOUSE. 1501 

WITHDRAWAL OF P .APERS. 

Mr. PETTIBONE, by unanimous consent, obtained leave to withdraw from the files of the House the pape~ in the case of A. L. Rog~rs, 

without leaving certified copies thereof. ~so the papers in the case of J. B. Hale, leaving certified copies thereof. · 

Mr. LANHAM, by unanimous consent, obtained leave to withdraw 

from the files of the House papers presented by him in the claim of V. 

F. Gorrissen; t~ere having been no adverse report thereou. 

HOUR OF 1\IEETING. 

no pUrpose of making an attack or reflection upon him.. Whatever 

language I used upon that occasion was n"ot used with that intent, but 

to emphasize the position I occupied upon the question that I was discussing. I have known the gentleman from Louisiana. since he has 

been a member of the House, and in all our intercourse I have found 

he always has been earnest in defending the rights of his constituents, 

and at the same time, as I believe, has intended tp be just. On the 

occasion therefore to which he has referred I have no doubt he labored 

under a misapprehension. 

]')fr. SPRINGER. Now "let us have peace" and the regular order . . 

The SPEAKER pro te-mpore. The regular order is called for. ·The 

gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. PHELPS) rises, ~s the Chair understands, to present a privileged report. 

CHARLES .A. VAN BOKKELEN. 

1\Ir. PHELPS. I a.m directed by the Committee on Foreign Affairs 

to report back with a recommendation that it be adopted the resolution of inquiry which I send to the desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Mr. RANDALL. Mr. Speaker, in obedience to the constitutional 

requirement as to the counting of the electoral vote, in accordance with 

the Revised Statutes fixing to-morrow as the day on which those votes 

shall be counted, as by concurrent resolution of the two Houses the 

time for the count has been :fixed at 12 o'clock to-morrow, and as it 

will be inconvenient for this House to meet at that hour and more 

convenient to meet at an earlier hour, I move that the session of the 

House to-morrow commence at 11 o'clock. I believe, Mr. Speaker, 

that this is a privileged motion not connected altogether with the rule, 

because the fixing of the hour of the meeting of the House has gener- Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to furnish to 

ally been referred to another committee than the one on the rules. • this House, if not imcompatible with the public interest, all the correspondence and other papers in the hands of the Government relating to the case of Charles The SPEAKER pro te-mpore. The gentleman from Pennsylvania .A. Van Bokkelen, a citizen of the United States, imprisoned for a year past, as 

[Mr. RANDALL], for the reasons he has st.'l.ted, moves that when the alleged, at Port au Prince, Hayti. 

House adjourns to-day it be to meet at 11 o'clock to-morrow. The resolution was adopted. 

Mr. MILLS. I move that hereafter the hour of meeting of the House ]')1r. PHELPS moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution 

be 11 o'clock every morning. was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on Mr. RANDALL. To that I will urge no objection. the table. 

Mr. KEIFER. I think we had better not undertake to make a The ln.tter motion was agreed to. 

change permanently now. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair understands that the motion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. RANDALL] is made in 

order that the House may to-morrow, in the exereise of its power and 

in obedience to the requirementS of the Constitution :md law, discharge 

a special duty. 

Mr. RANDALL. That is my object. 

Mr. KElFER. To that there certainly should be no objection. 

. The SPEAKER JYI'O""tempore. Is there objection to the motion of the 

gentleman from Pennsylvania? 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. As amended by the motion of the gentleman 

from Texas. [Cries of "Oh, no!"] 

· The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Texas insist on his proposition? _ 

Mr. SPRINGER. Is it not in order to move an amendment? 

The SPEAKER JYI'O te-mpore. The Chair would hold an n.mendment 

in order if any gentleman insists upon such a motion. 

Mr. RANDALL. I will say in this connection that the members of 

the Committee on Rules have -consulted-perhaps informn.lly-and I 

think I mn.y say it istheintentionofthecommitteetointrodueen. proposition that on and after Mondn.y next the House shall meet at 11 

o'clock. 

1tlr. KEIFER. Let me suggest that the-Committee on Appropriations must have considernbletimethisweekto prepareitsbills, and the 

members of that committee cannot be here as early as 11 o'clock every 

day. 

Mr. RANDA.LL. In view of the fact that it is the intention of the 

Committee on Rules to report a proposition that on ancl after Monday 

next for the remainder of the session the hour of meeting shall be 11 

o'clock, I would prefer that the gentlemn.n from Texas withdmw his 

motion. 

Mr. MILLS. I do so. 

The SPEAKER JYI'O tempore. The question is upon the motion of the 

gentleman from Pennsylvania that when the House adjourns to-nay it 

adjourn to meet at 11 o'clock to-morrow morning. 

The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider- the vote by which the motion 

was agreed to; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Mr. SPRINGER, Mr. TOWNSHEND, and others called for the regular order. · 

PERSONAL EXPLANATION. 

Mr. KING. I rise to a question of personal privilege. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. KING. Mr. Speaker, on some day last week, I think it was 

Friday, the gentleman from New York [Mr. HISCOCK] made some remarks which I thought reflected upon me. I replied in terms which I 

thougbtjust, under my understanding of his meaning and purpose. 

Personal explanations have been made in person between the gentleman and myself, and I am satisfied he intended nothing offensive or 

unkind to me. Feeling free therefore· to do so, I take great pleasure 

in withdrawing all of my remarks which were offensive to him, and to 

express my regret that under any misapprehension I should have said 

anything which was unkind or offensive to the gentleman from New 

York. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Mr. Speaker, I wish to say that upon the occasion t,o which thegentleman from Louisiana lMr. KING] has referred I had 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I call for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER pro te-mpore. The·regular order now for one hour is 

the ~<tiling up, under the special rule} of bills, resolutions, &c., for consideration. 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. I wish to inquire whether it is not in order to 

move to dispense with this proceeding. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. ,. It is not . 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I ask unanimous consent that we may dispense 

with this proceeding in order to resume the consideration of the PostOffice' appropriation bill. · 

Several members objected. 

MOBILE AND OIDO RAILROAD COMPANY. 

The SPEAKER pro te-mpore. The Clerk will report the title of n. joint 

resolution coming up in this hour as unfinished business, having been 

called up on last Saturday by the gentleman from New York [Mr. 

DORSIIEIMER). 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Joint ,resolution (S. R. 4) to provide for the settlement of accounts with the 

1\Iobile and Ohio Raib·oad Company. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. This resolution was read during the 

last hour devoted to this business and upon the conclusion of the reading the hour expired. 

.Mr. DORSHEIMER. Mr. Chairman, for the information of the 

House I will ask for the reading of the report. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

1\Ir. TUCKER, from the Committee on the Judiciary, submitted the following report [to accompany H. Res. 293): The Committee on the Judiciary, to whom was referred the joint resolution 

(H. Res. 293) to provide for the settlement of accounts with the Mobile and Ohio 

Railroad Company, respectfully report: That they have examined into the facts of the case as exhibited in the different laws J>assed, and the reports of the Quartermaster-General, and previous re- ports of committees upon this subject. By the act of February Z7, 1875, "to provide for settlement with certain railway companies," the Secretary of War and .Attorney-General were authorized 

and empowered jointly to adjust and settle the claims of the United States 

against the Mobile and Ohio and other railway companies named therein for 

property purchased·by them of the United States in the years 1865 and 1866. The 

Secretary of 'Vnr reported to the Senate (Ex. Doc. 57, Forty-fourth Congress, first session) that under the provisions of that act an abatement of 25 per cent. was found equitable and just in the valuation of the property charged, and that 

he made that deduction and settled with certa.in of the roads on that basis in 

accordance with the provisions of the law. He reported further that he had 

been unable to make any settlement of the account with the Mobile and Ohio 

Railway Company for the reason that a settlement on the basis determined on as equitable and just, and on which settlement had been made with the other 

companies, would· bring the Government in debt to the company, and that no means had been provided in the act cited for paying any balance in favor of the 

company. 

In the annual report of the Quartermaster-General, made to the last session of 

Congress, attention is called to the condition of the accounts of the 1\!obile and 

Ohio Railway Company, and legislation is recommended for their settlement on an equitable basL~. 

J n the report of Colonel Chandler, he says: "~hree acts of Congress have passed, under which compromises 'have been 

effected and theaccountsclosed. * * * Butitwasfoundnotpossibletoclose the account of the Mobile and Ohio Railroad Company, because, on an applica- tion of the principle considered equitable, a cash payment from the United States 

to the railroad company was necessary, as the railroad bad already paid over $500,000 on its debt, and it ~as considered that the law did not justify a settlement which would bring the Government in debt. In this case, it is suggested that Congress be asked to have some equitable law to close the long-standing account." 

The committee believe that the law intended that settlement should be made 

with each company on the same basis. The fact that settlement on the basis adopted requires the return to the Mobile and Ohio Railwa,y Company of money-
1502 GONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. FEBRUARY 10, 

overpaid by it should not be taken ad,·antage of by the Government from. any 

failure in the law t{) provide for it. . This resolution is to direct the settlement to be carried out with the Mobile 

and Ohio Railway Company. We report the resolution back and recommend its passage. 

Mr. DORSHEIMER. Mr. Chairman, I do not think it is necessary 

for me to proceed at any length for the purpose of re-enforcing the report ofthe Judiciary. Committee. However, it will beproper for me to 

inform· the House that this bill at former sessions passed both Houses of 

Congress, but at no time has passed both Houses at the same session. 

Tbe act of 1875providedforthe settlementoftheaccountsofa number of railway companies named in the act. The Mobile.and Ohio Railway Company was one of those so named. · The settlement with the 

other companies brought them in debt to the Government, but the auditing officers found that an adjustment of accounts between the Government and the 1\Iobile and Ohio Railway Company would bring the 

Government in debt to that company, and the act of 1875 having made 

no appropriation, it was impossible to make the adjustment of accounts 

which the act contemplated. 

Under these circumstances the JudiciaryCommitteesofboth Houses 

have in a nmnber of instances recommended the passage of a law which 

should permit the adjustment of this account. · The Judiciary Committee now recommend that the joint resolution which has passed the 

Senate shall receive the approval of the House of Representatives. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. T4e gentleman's time has expired_ . 

Mi'. HOLMAN. I have in my hand the report made by the Judi· 

ciary Committee, but it is not very full, and I hope the gentleman from 

New York will state how much this railway corporation owed the Government and how much was paid before the act of 1875 was passed. 

Mr. DORSHEIMER. I state in answer to the gentleman from Indiana that there is no evidence from which the committee could obtain 

information as to what balance would be found on an adjustment of 

these a<lcounts. The railway company previous to the passage of the 

act had purchased $500,000 worth of rolling-stock from the Government 

and had paid therefor the sum of$440, 000. The basis of adjustment between the Government and other railway companies named in the act 

if applied to the transaction with the Mobile and Ohio Railroad Company 

would bring the Government somewhat in debt. There has never been 

any ascertainment whatever, for it appears when the officers charged 

with the duty of auditing the accounts found whatwas likely to be the 

result they stopped further proceedings and made no ascertainment 

whatever. 

Mr. HOLMAN. But it occurs to me that the Judiciary Committee 

ought to have ascertained the amount of the original indebtedness and 

the amount that would have remained after deduction of 25 per cent. 

I concede it is quite clear from the report and my recollection of the 

transaction that this corporation should have been credited with 25 

per cent. According to the views expressed by the Quartermaster the 

amount of deduction contemplated by the act of 1875 should not exceed 25 per cent. The Quartermaster seemed to think25 percent. deduction from the original price of the property sold to the corporation 

was reasonable. 

But the statement simply comes to us as to the payment by this company of over $500,000, as shown here by the report; while there is no 

statement as to the original indebtedness of the corporation nor are we 

informed as to the amount involved in this measure. That information ought to have been given to the House in some shape. 

Air. DORSHEil\IE.R. In further reply to the gen.tleman from Indiana I will state that if it had been possible for the Judiciary Committee to ascertain the amount properly payable to the Ohio and Mobile 

Railway Company there would have been no necessity at all for the 

passage of this joint resolution. The joint resolution is passed for the 

purpose of having .an adjustment of this account on the spot-in the 

place where the railroad is l()jated and where the evidence exists. There 

is no evidence before the Judiciary Committee on which it could audit 

the a<loount. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I am anxious to have this resolution again read if 

it can be done in the time allowed in opposition. 

The joint resolution was again reported. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Ur. Speaker, I regret that theeftects of this measure are so briefly stated in the report--

[Here the hammer fell.] 

The SPEAKERp1·o tempore. Thetimeallowedfor debate underthe 

rule has expired. 

Is there objection to ~he present consideration of the joint resolution? 

Objection was made by ten members, whereupon the joint resolution 

was withdrawn. 

SAC .ll.TD. FOX INDIAN RESERVATION IN ~'EBRASKA AND KANSAS. 

hrr. WEAVER. .Mr. Speaker, I ask to take from the House Calendar the bill (H. R. 6658) to provide for the sale of the Sac and Fox In· 

dian reservation, in the States of Nebraska and Kansas, and for other 

purposes, and put it upon its passage. 

The bill was read, as follows: 

thorized t{) cause t{) be surveyed, if necessary, and sold the remainder of the 

reservation of the Iowa Indians~. lying in the States of Nebraska. and Kansas. The said lands shall be appraisea, in tracts of forty acres each,- by three compe- tent commis ioners, one of whom shall be .selected by the Sac and Fox tribe of 

Indians and the other two shall be appointed by the Secretary of the Interior. SEo. 2. That after the survey and appraisement of said lands the Secretary of 

the Interior .shall be, and hereby is, authorized to offer the same, through the 

United States public land office at Beatrice, Nebr., at public sale, to the highest bidder. In cases where improvements have been made by any Indian or for tlle 

United States upon such lands, such i!pprovements shall be separately appraised : Provided, That no portion of such land shall be sold at. less than the appraised value thereof, and in no case for le.ss than $8 per acre, and t{) none except such as purchase the same for actual {)CCupation and settlement, and who have made 

and subscribed on oath. before the register of said land offiee, and tiled the same with said officer of the land office at Bea.trice1 Nebr., that it is his good faith and 

intention to settle upon aud occupy the lana which he ecks to purchase, and 

improve the-same for a home; and, except in case of the death of the purchaser, unless said party shall have executed his declared intention by making improve· menta and being in actual occupation of said land, by actual residence thereon, at the time for making the second payment, he shall forfeit the :payment already made, and the land shall be subject to resale as hereinafter provtded. Each pur- chaser of said lands at such sale shall be entitled to purchase one hundred and 

sixty acres of land, and no more, except in cases where a tract contains a fractional excess over one hundred and sixty acres. If the excess is less than forty acres, is contiguous, and results from inability in the survey to make township and section lines conform to the boundary lines of the reservation, and no other .objection exists, the purchase of such excess shall be allowed. Such purchaser shall pay_ one-fourth of the purchase-price at the time said land is bid off, one- fourth in one year, one-fourth in two years, and one-fourth in three years, with 

interest on the deferred payments at the rate of 5 per cent. per annum; and 

where there are improvements upon the lands purchased which shall have been 

separately appraised, the purchaser shall pay the appraised value of such improvements at the time of purchase, in addition to the amounts hereinbefore re- quired to be paid. No patents shall issue until all payments shall have been 

made; and on the failure.of any purchaser to make payment as required within 

ninety days he shall forfeit the lands purchased, and the same shall be subject to entry and sale, at the appraised value thereof, or shall be again offered at public sale, as the Secretary of the Interior may determine. 

SEc. 3. That if any member of said Iowa tribe of Indians residing at the date 

of the passage of this act upon any of the lands authorized to be sold by the sec- ond section of this act, and who has improvements thereon, shall elect to re- main on the lands occupied by him, such lands shall be withheld from sale as provided for herein; and the Secretary of the Interior shall cause a certificate to issue to the person so electing as follows: If he be the head of a family, to one hundred and sixty acres of land, and if a single man, eighty acres of land, 

the land so selected to include his improvements, and to be accepted in full sat- isfaction of his interest in and t{) the said reservation, and of the moneys or fund 

realized from the sale thereof. The certificate provided for herein shall be of 

the legal effect and declare that the United States does and will hold the land 

thus certified, for the period of twenty-fi'f'e years, in trust for the sole use and 

benefit of the allottee, or in case of his decease, of his heirs according to the 

laws of the State in which said land is situated, and that at the expiration of 

said period the United States will convey the same by patent to said Indian, or his heirs as aforesaid, in fee, discharged of said trust and free of all charge or incumbrance whatsoever; and if any conveyance shall be made of the lands 

thus allotted, or any contract made touching the same, before the expiration of 

the time above mentioned, such conveyance or contract shall be absolutely null 

and void; and such lands during such time shall not be subject to taxation, alienation, or forced sale, under execution or otherwise. 

SEc. 4. That the proceeds of the sale of any improvements belonging to individual Indians shall be paid to the Indians t{) whom such improvements be- longed. The proceeds of the sale of any improvements belonging to the United 

States shall be d~positedin the Treasury of the United States; and the proceeds of the sale of said lands, first deducting therefrom the cost of the survey, ap- praisement, and sale, and the expense of removing the Indians as hereinafter 

provided, shall be placed to the credit of said Sac and Fox Indians in the Treasury of the United States, and shall bear interest at the rate of 4 per cent. per an- num, which income shall be annually expended for the benefit of said Indians, under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. 

SEc. 5. That the Secretary of the Interior may, with the consent of the Indians expressed in open council, secure other reservation lands upon which to locate 

said Indians, cause their removal thereto, and expend uch sum as may be neces- sary for their comfort and advancement in civilization. 

SEc. 6. That the President of the United States be, and he is hereby, authorized to cause a patent to be issued to the Sac and Fox (of the .Missouri) tribe of 

Indians for the reservation that may be selected for them under the provisions of the preceding section. 

SEc. 7. That the patent authorized by the preceding section to be issued to said 

Iowa tribe of Indians shall be of the legal etlect, and declare that the United 

States does and will bold the land therein described in trust for the sole u.se and 

benefit of said Sac and Fox tribe of Indians. 

S&o:8. That whenever the Indians who may be properly residing upon the 

said reservation referred to in the last preceding sections shall desire allotments 

of lands in severalty, the Secretary of the Interior shall cause allotment to be 

made to such Indians in quantity as follows: 

To each head of a family, one hundred and sixty acres. To each single person over the age of 21 years, eighty acres. SEc. 9. That upon the approval of the allotments provided for in the ~_>receding 

section by the Secretary of the Interior, the President shall cause ce:&tificates to issue therefor in the name of the allottees, which certifieates shall be of the 

legal effect, and declare that the United States does and will hold the fee of the 

land thns allottedi:for the period of twenty-five years, in trust for the sole use and benefit of tlle ndian to whom such allotment shall have been made, or in case of his decease, of his heirs, and that at the expiration of said period the 

United States will convey the same by patent to the said Indian, or his heirs, in 

fee, discharged of said trust and free of all charge or incumbrance whatsoever ; and if any conveyance shall be made of the lands set apart and allotted as herein provided, or any contract made touching the same, before the expiration of 

the time above mentioned, such con"eyance or contract shall be absolutely null 

and void. 

SEc. 10. That the Secretary of the Interior may, with the consent of the I n- dians expressed in open coun cil, a~ provided in section lt cause the removal of 

that portion of the Sac and Fox tribes residing upon saia Sac and Fox reserva- tion in Nebraska and Kansas to the reservation that may be secured for them, and expend such sum as may be rendered necessarr by such removal, and for 

the comfort and advancement in civilization of satd Indians; and the sum of 000, or so much thereof as may l'>e necessary, is hereby appropriated, out of 

any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for the payment of such 

expenses and for the expenses of the survey, Appraisement, and sale of said 

Sac and Fox land; and the amount so expended shall be reimbursed to tlle 

United States out of the first proceeds of the sales of said lands. 

Be il enacted, &c., That with the consent or the majority of the chiefs, head- Th SPEAKER t (lii M · th h · ) men, and male adults of the Sac and Fo.x (of the Missouri) tribe of Indians, ex- e pro empore .., r. ILLS ill e C aJI • Is there obpre ed in open council, the Secretary of the Interior be, and he hereby is, au· jection to taking up this bill for· consideration? 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1503 

1\Ir. WARNER, of Ohio. Let the report be read, or let us _have an explanation of it. . 1\Ir. WEAVER. Mr. Speaker, I am satisfied that after having stated 

this case to the members on the floor there will be no objection to this 

bill. 

This is one of the most carefully prepared bills that has ever been 

brought before this House; and I desire to state at the outset that the 

bill was prepared by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and concerns a reservation lying in the States of Nebraska and Kansas, consisting of 

8,014 acres, no more. . It is provided in the bill that the lands shall not be sold for less than 

$8 per acre, and that they shall be ~ld to the highest bidder. Provision is also made that actual settlers are to have these lands in quantities not to exceed one hundred and sixty acres. There are residing on this reservation at the present time seventy-five 

Indians only, the balance of the tribe being on a reservation in the Indian Territory, that has been already set aside for their use by execu- tive orders. There are two or three amendments only for the purpose 

of correcting clerical errors and names of tribes that I desire to offer as 

the bill progresses. If there is any gentleman on this floor who desires 

any other information on the bill I shall cheerfully give him an explanation, for I understand all about this reservation. 

I reserve the remainder of my time. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I wish to ask the gentleman from Nebraska what is to be done with the Indians now on the reservation? 

1\Ir. WEA YER. It is provided in the bill that they are to be placed on the reservation where a large portion of the tribe has already been 

located in the Indian Territory. 

1\Ir. WARNER, of Ohio. Are these Indians willing to relinquish 

the reservation and go with the rest of the tribe? 

M:r. WEAVER. They have applied for·the passage of the bill, and 

the Commissioner of Indian A.fl'airs has recommended it. There is no reason in the world why it should not pas . Mr. RANDALL. Do I understand the gentleman to say that they 

have asked for this themselves? 

Mr. WEAVER. Yes, sir. 

Mr. RANDALL. That factoughtto besetforthin the report. The 

report has not yet been read. 

.Mr. WEAVER. I will state further to the gentleman from Pennsylvania that the Indians are amplyprotected--

Mr. RANDALL. I think the report had better be read. 

Ur. WE.A:VER. I was going to state that it is further provided in 

the bill that the lands can not be sold until the Indians make further 

application. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. Where is the money to go which is to be 

derived from the sale of these lands? 

'1\!r. WEAVER. Into the Treasury, and the Indians get the benefit 

of it as well as of the interest on it. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. The Indians are to be benefited, then, by this change ? 

1\Ir. PERKINS. I will answer the gentleman aud say yes; and it 

is also provided that the lands are to be sold only to the highest bidder, 

the minimum price being fixed at $8. 

1\ir. RANDALL. I ask that the report be read. 

The report (by :rtlr. PEBKINS) is as follows: 

The accompanying bill provides for the sale of the Indian reservation of the 

Sao a.nd Fox Indians, lying in the States of Kansas and Nebraska, and for the 

removal of the Indians to such reservation as may be secured for them, with 

their consent, by the Secretary of the Interior. 

The lands are valuable, and are located in Brown County, Kansas, and Richardson County, Nebraska, in a fine agricultural section, and are surrounded by finely colf,ivated farms, and by churches, schools, and thrift and prosperity, and 

in consequence of which will bring a large sum for their occupants. There are only 8,014 acres of the land and in Its present condition it yields but little to its 

occupants, and contributes but little to their advancement, comfort, or support, can not be taxed, alienated, or disposed of, and it does not in any way contribute to the growth, development, or material prosperity of the communities of which 

it constitutes an integral part. There are about seventy-fi\re of these Sac and Fox India-ns, the most or nearly all of whom are residing on this reservation. These 

lands are situated the same as the Iowa Indian lands in Kansas and Nebraska, 

the condition of which your committee bas heretofore re~rtoo to the House, ~~\fmmending their sale substantially as provided for by t e provisions of this 

· Your committee are advised that it is the wish of many of the Sac and Fox Indians that this reservation should be sold, and that the proceeds may be usefJ. in the manner provided for in this bill; but if in this your committee are mis- taken, the billts so drawn that nothing can be done under it without the con- sent of the chiefs, headmen~ ~nd male adults of the tribe, and no harm would re ult from the ~assage of tnis bill. The bill provides that the Secretary of the 

Interior may, Wlth the consentoftheindians,expressed in open council secure other lands for them upon which to locate, and cause the removal of the' Indian 

tribe, and ex'Pend such sum as may be necessary for their comfort and advance- ment in civUtzation in so doing. ~hese Indians wear the American dress, speak the English language, and are qutte well qualified for the duties of citizenship and to care for their own and 

v;tany of them desire to go to the Indian Territory, where they think the oondi- ttons are more congenial and the opportunities for development and improve:. ment better than upon their present reservation. And yet the bill is so framed 

that if they should find lands that could be obtained for them where the conditions would be more desirable than the Indian Territory, such lands could be B~~ured for them by the Secretary of the Interior for the purpose of & reservaThe land now occupied by them is but little cultivated and developed, and 

has J;>ecome410 valuable in consequence of the development of the surrounding 

country that, in the judgment of your committee the proceeds realized from its 

Mle wou!d do very much toward making the Indians comfortable where cheap 

lands could be obtained for them, and would give them a fund for educational 

purposes that could be used for their good. The bill provides that the land shall be appraised by three disinterested ap-- praisers, and shall be sold at not less than the appraised value, and in no event at less than S8peracre. Italsoprovidesthatsuchindiansashaveimprovements. on the lands shall be permitted to retain them if they so desire, and shall have 

certificates of allotment is.sued to them by the Secretary of the Interior for the 

land upon which the improvements are situated, as follows: If the head of a 

family, to one hundred and sixty acres; if a single man, to eighty acres. The 

conditions of certificates, and the circumstances under which they may issue, are suggested in the bill as reported by your committee, and it has been prepared 

with such caress to do justice to theindians as well as to thepurchasersofthe~ 

lands, and it retains nearly all the important provisions of the original bill. 

Tbe bill has also been prepared so as to give the lands to actual settlers who 

should desire them for purposes of cultivation nnd for a home, and to prevent them from falling into the hands of speculators and those who would hold them, at the expense of the communities, for years as a speculative investment, and, in 

the judgment of your committee, it is better for the lndiansi as well as better for 

the communities in which the lands are situated, that the and should be disposed of as provided in the bill; and hence your committee report it to the House, 

recommending ita favorable consideration and passage, as a substitute for House bill5350. 

During the reading of the report the hammer fell. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The time for debate in support of the 

bill has been exhausted. 

1\Ir. WARNER, of Ohio. I take the floor in opposition and ask for 

the completion of the reading of the report. in my time. 

The Clerk resumed and concluded the reading of the report as above. 

The SPEAKER yro tempore. The time allowed under the rules for 

debate on this bill is exhausted. Is there objection to the present con- sideration of the bill? 

There was no objection. · :Mr. HOLMAN. I suggest. to the gentleman in charge of the bill to 

make the rate of interest on page 3, line 34 of the bill, 6 per cent. instead of 5 per cent. 

?!Ir. WEAVER. I agree to that amendment. 

Mr. HOLMAN. That is the portion of the bill, as I understand, 

that provides for the rate of interest on the purchase-money. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair hears no objection to that 

amendment being made. 

1\Ir. WEAVER. I offer the amendments which I send to the desk. 

The Clerk read as follows : .. In line 8, section 1, strike out the words "Iowa Indians" and insert the words 

"Sac and Fox Indians." In line 4, section 2, insert after the word " Beatrice'' the word!f" or Lincoln." In line 14, section 2, insert after the word "Beatrice" the words "or Lincoln." In line 15, section 2, strike out the word "and" between the wot·ds "faith " 

and "intention." In li1;1e 4.1, section 2, after the word " required" strike out the words " within 

ninety days" and insert" by this act." 

The amendments were agreed to. 

1\Ir. WEAVER moved to reconsider the vote by which the amendments were agreed to; a~d also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

The bill as amended was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time; 

and being engrossed, it was accordingly read the third time, and passed. 

Mr. WEA YER moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ESTATE OF CHESTER ASHLEY 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I call up for consideration from the Private 

Calendar the bill (H. R. 1779) for the relief of the e,state of Chester 

Ashley, and I desire to amend it by substituting a Senate bill having 

the same title. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman call ·up the House 

bill from the Private Calendar or the Senate bill from the Speaker's 

table? He can do either under the rule. 

:Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I will call up the Senate bill from the Speaker's table, the bill (S. 591) for the relief of the estate of Chester Ashley. 

The bill was read, as follows: 

Be it enacted, &c., That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he is hereby, au- thorized and directed to pay to the estate of Chester Ashley, out of any moneys in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum of 81,100, in full for rent of 

building in the city of Little Rock, Ark., for the use of the Army, from July,l865, to the 31st of Ma.rch.l866. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman from Arkansas 

ask for the reading of the report? 

?!Ir. BRECKINRIDGE. Yes, sir. 

The report (by Mr. FERRELL) was read, as follows: 

The Committee on War Claims, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. 1779) for 

the relief of the estate of Chester Ashley, having considered the same, report as follows: · The facts out of which this bill for relief arises will be found stated in Senate 

report of the Committee on Claims, first session Forty-eighth Congress, a copy of which is her:eto appended. · - Your committee adopt the said report as their own, and report back the bill 

and recommend its passage. 

•· [Senate Report No. 582, Forty-eighth Congress, first session.] 

" The Committee on Claims, to whom was referred the bill (S. 591) for the relief 

of the estate of Chester Ashley, have considered the same, and report as foJ· 

lows: ~ 

"Chester Ashley was the owner of a house iu Little Rock, Ark., which was 00:. 

.cupied as oftlces for headquarters of the Department of Arkansas from .Tuly 1, 

,, 
1504 CONGRESSION.A:L· REOORD--HOUSE. FEBRUARY' 10, 

1865. to March 31, 1866. On May 10, 1866, Henry Noble, colonel and assistant 

quartermaster, issued to said Ashley a voucher for $1,100 for the rent of said hou~e. being at the rate of Sl2:s a month during its ·occupancy by the United 

States forces. The voucher was presented to the accounting officers by Ashley's ndministrotor, and the claim was rejected, the act of Congress of February 21, 

1867, prohibiting the settlement of claims for the use and occupation of real 

('State in the insurrectionary States. 

"It has been the uniform policy of this eommittee to recommend the payment of claims for rent of buildings in the insurrectionary Sta.tes where an agreement was made for its payment by proper authority. This claim evidently comes within this rule, and the comm.ittee therefore report back the bill and recom- . mend its passage." · 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I shall not make any extended remarks on this bill unless some questions are asked. This is a regular case; it has 

been approved by a committee of the Senate and passed the Senate, and 

it has been approved by 'the very painstaking Committee on War Claims 

of the House. I am' ready to answer any questions. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I hope the gentleman from Arkansas will 

explain a little further than the report seems to explain-first, why this 

rental was not paid by the quartermaster or through the Quartermaster's Department in the regular way. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. The report shows that. 

Mr. McMILLIN. I will explain that if the gentleman will permit 

me. :Mr. W A.RNER, of Ohio. Very good. But I desire to ask two questions: First, was this contract made between the quartermaster or as- sistant quartermaster there and the owner of the property? 

:Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. It was. as the report shows. 

Mr. W A.RNER, of Ohio. And had the quartermaster the right to 

make that agreement? 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. He had, as the committee believes. 

lflr. W A.RNER, of Ohio. And why, on that state of facts was not the 

rental paid at the time by the Quartermaster's Departmen ? 

lli. BRECKINRIDGE. ·Whatever may have been the reason, the 

Senate committee and our committee felt it was unjustthat this claim 

should not be paid. 

Mr. McMILLIN. I will call the attention of the gentleman from 

Ohio [¥f. WARNER] to thefadtha.tin1867, theearlypartof the year 

1867, after claims of this ki.n.d had accrned, there was a statute pa.ssed 

by Congress forbidding their payment. I had occasion, the gentleman 

will .permit me to state further, to investigate that question recently; 

and even where there had been a contract regularly entered into-- . Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. As in this case. Mr. McMTLLIN. As in this case, the officers of the Government were not permitted to pay by reason of that retroactive statute. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. lean understand that; but that does not 

explain why it was not paid in the year in which the property was used or in the next year; why it was not paid at the time. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I can not tell the gentleman. 

Mr. STORM. It was because of the law preventing the payment of 

claims at that time, the renting of the property having taken plaee in an insurrectionary State. 

Mr. MILLS. There were cases of that kind all through the South. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I want to ask the gentleman from Arkansas if it is 

not true that a contract was made by the Army officer for this property, and if the Government did not use the same and have never paid 

for it? 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. There is no doubt about that. That is perfectly plain; both committees state it. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I had no doubt about it myself; · I wanted the gentleman to state that fact. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. But still my question is not answered: 

Why this was- not paid through the Quartermaster's Department at the 

b& . 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I can not tell the gentleman. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I suppose the chairman of the Committee 

on War Claims can inform me. Mr. GEDDES. This fact plainly appears from evidence submitted 

to the committee. The gentleman from Ohio [Mr. W ARNE.B.] will ob- serve the c1.aim was presented by the administrator shortly after the 

close of the occupancy of the premises. It sufficiently appears that it was on account of the sickness of the party and his subsequent death 

that it was not presented at an earlier date, and that only the short time 

of one rear intervened between the be of occupancy and the be the 

claim was presented. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. Thatissu:ffi.cientexplanationthere. Now, 

let me ask one question furlher. Was this agreement or contract for 

the rent approved by the Quartermaster-General? 

Mr. ROGERS, of Arkansas. It was. Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. It has had the approval of the Quartermaster-General? 

Mr. ROGERS, of Arkansas. Oh, yes; the reprirt shows that. 

The bill as amended was ordered to be read a third time; and it was accordingly read the third time, and passed. 

Mr. ROGERS, of .Arkansas, moved to reconsider the vote by which 

the bill was passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider. .be., 

laid on the table. • · 

The latter motion was agreed to, 

PUBLIC BUILDING, AUGUSTA, ME. 

Mr. MILLIKEN. I call up Senate bill235, and ask ita present con- sideration. 

The bill was read, as follows: 

Be it enacted ~e., That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he hereby is, au- thorized and directed to purchase or otherwise provide a suitable site, and cause to be ere.cted thereoniatthe city of Augusta, in the St.ate of Maine, a substantial 

and commodious pub ic building, with fire-proof vaults, for the use and accom- modation of the post-office, United States courts, internal-revenue office, pension office,andforother Government uses. Thesite,andthe building thereon, when 

completed according to plans and specifications to be previously made and approved by the Secretary of the Treasury, shall not exceed the cost of $150,000; 

and the site purchased shall leave the building unexposed to danger from fire in 

adjacent buildings by an open space of at least fitly feet, including streets and 

alleys; and for the purposes herein mentioned tlie sum of $150,000 is hereby ap- propriated, out of any moneys in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to be expended under the direction of the Secretary of the Treasury: Provi<kd, 

That no part of said sum slmll be expended until a valid title to the said site 

shall be vested in the United States, and the State of Maine shall cede to the 

United States exclusive jurisdiction over the same, during the time the United 

States shall be or remain the owners thereof, for aU purposes except the administration of the criminal laws of said State and the service of any civil process 

therein. 

Mr. RANDALL. I ask for the reading of the report in that case. The report (by Mr. MILLIKEN) was read, as follows: 

That Augusta is the capital or the State, with a population of 8,666, showing a 

small increase during the last decade. It is situated on the Kennebec River1 in 

the center ofpop~tion in the State, has a fineandextensivewater-power, nas large industries in the manufacture of cotton1 lumber, boots, and shoes; &c., and 

has-good railroad facilities, and is surroundea by thriily and growing towns and 

cities within a radius of twenty miles. . The post-office business of Augusta for the year ending J nne 30,1883, was as follows, namely: 

~=~~E~J!i:!~"i~~-;:iih~t'~~~·~;;i;~~~~~~;r;;i·ih~·.A;;-~~ 883• tr78 ~ office...... ..... .. .......... ...... .. ......•. ..... .. .......... ...... ...... ...... ......... ....... ....... 48, 051 09 Receipts from money-orders issued............... ....................................... 37,086 02 Receipts from money-order drafts........................................................ 3, 650 0()' 

Receipts for money-orders deposited by postmasters .......................... 183,571 00 Amount of money-orders paid ................................. ............................. 139, 288 95 Amount of money-order money deposited with Postmaster Goddard, . at Portland......................................................................................... 84,179 00 Amount deposited with assistant treasurer at Boston, Mass............... 72,480 30 

Total postal business of the office ......................................... : ...... G52, 184 49 

Total number of money-orders issued during the year........................ 2,467 

The number of money-orders paid during the year...... ....................... 21,936 

Total number of sacks of newspapers sent from the office during the ' 

year.................................................................................................... 47,378 

Totn.l number of circulars sent............ .................................................. 5, 709, ISO Total number of pieces of mail matter handled by letter-carriers....... 1, 332,66.1 

Total number of pieces of mail matter handled during the year ........... 18,173,928 

In the amount of second-class mail matter for the year ending Jun.e 30, 1882; 

Augusta ranked as the seventh post-office in the United States, New York city being first i Chicago, second; Boston, third; Philadelphia, fourth; Saint Louis! 

fifth; ~ncmnati, sixth; Au~a. seventh. Augusta's post-office recei~ts show; a large mel"ease each year smce ltr79, when they were $51,44.0, and are likely to increase in future, for they are in great part due to large publishing houses located here, which do a business which extends all over the globe, and has been 

increasing for more than a deCI\de. They have extensive permanent buildings and the very best class of printing machinery, and, together with the cotton and 

lumber industries here, have a continually growing business. 

We also find thnt this va.st mail is handled in two separate buildings, more than three hundred feet apart, which is both inconvenient and unsafe, as these 

buildings have no fire-proof vaults, and is very expensive to the Government! 

For these unsafe and inconvenient buildings the Government pays a l'ental of 

$3,300 per year; and though they are the best that can be had, they afford but 

poor returns in the accommodations which they give for the rental paid. It is 

estimated by Mr. ManleY,, the present postmaster, that $3,000 per year might be 

saved to the Government in rental and by reason of the superior facilities which a properly constructed bu.Mding would afford. · : There is a United States pension office ·at Augusta, which distrihutes annually $2,500,000 on account of pensions. The internal-revenue office is also located at Augusta, and at least one term of the United States court is required to be held 

there on account of its central location in the State and the commercial inter- ests which cent-er here. Augusta is at the head of navigation on the Kennebec 

River, and in the midst of a large and rapidly increasing manufacturing and 

commercial community. A bill similar to the one accompanying this teport passed the Senate of the 

Forty-seventh Oongress, and was favorably reported to the House, but on ao- connt of the illness of Mr. LINDsEY, who had charge of it, was not called up on the Calendar. • · Your committee would therefore recommend that bill H. R. 702, accompany~ ing this report do pass, limiting the cost of said building and grounds, "When 

completed, to the sum of $150,000. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I ask the gentleman from Maine [Mr. MrLLII!..EN] 

whether he will not consent that the bill may be amended by inserting 

after the word ''dollars,'' in line 11 of the engrossed bill, the followi.Dg: 

And it shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Treasury after the site fo~ said building shall have been purchased, to cause a plan and specifications of 

said building to be prepared, which said plan and specificationsshallnotinvolve an expenditure in the erection and completion of said building and the ap- proaches thereto exceeding the portion of said $150,000 remaininif. after the site 

of said building shall have been paid for; and no plan for said building shall be 

approved by the Secretary of the Treasury involvmg an expenditure exceeding the s~ so remaining after paying for the site of said building. 

Mr. MILLIKEN. I aooept that amendment. I would have placed 

it in the bill originally if it had been suggested. 

The SPEAKER pra tempore. Is there objection to the consideration 

of this bill? 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I was about to propose an amendmentj· but 

the one suggested by the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HOLMAN and 

accepted \1ythegentlemanfromMa.ine (Mr.:MILLIKEN] isSll'bstantialW 

the same, so..I:Lwill .not.ofl'er!mine. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1505 

The bill as amended was ordered to a third reading; and. accordingly 

it was read the third time, and passed. 

Mr. MILLIKEN moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed· and also moved to lay that motion on the table. 

The iatter motion was agreed to. 

DR. THOM;AS J. JONES. 

Mr. HALSELL. Mr. Speaker, I call up the bill (H. R. 6533) for the 

relief of Dr. Thomas J. Jones. 

The bill was read, as follows: 

Be it enacted, &c., That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he is herei}y, au- thorized n.nd directed to pay to Dr. Thomas J. Jones, of Warren County, Kentucky, out of any money_in the Treasll!Y not otherwise appropriated, the sum- of $300 for medical serVIces rendered the Eleventh Regrment Kentucky Infantry Volunteers during the months of October, November, and December, 1861. 

The report (by Mr. FERRALL) was read, as follows: 

This claim is for medical services alleged to have been r-endered the Eleventh 

Regiment of Kentucky Infantry Volunteers during the months of October, November and December, 1861, under appointment of Col. P. B. Hawkins, com- mandin'g the said regiment. Colonel Hawkins in his affidavit states" that he appointed the said Dr. Thomo.s 

J. Jones pro tempore as the attending physician on the sick o~ ~is regiment, there being no regular surgeon appointed; that he knows the sa.1d Dr. Thomas 

J. Jones attended to the sick of his regiment most faithfully,day and night, for over three months." 

Under sections 1304, 1305, and 1306 ofthe .Anny Reg-ulations ofl863, pages 313, 314 and lil8 commanding officers of United Sta.tes troops bad authority, in proper cases, to e~ploy private physicians. . Your committee, in view of the foregoing statement of facts, report hereWith a. substitute for the bill, appropriating the sum of $300, and recommend its paseage • • 

· The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time; and being 

engrossed, was read the third time, and passed. 

Mr. HALSELL moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was 

passed; and also moved to la.y that motion on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

JOSEPH F. WILSON. 

Mr. CANNON. Mr. Speaker, I move to discharge the Committee of 

the Whole on the Private Calendar from the consideration of the bill 

(H. R. 275) for the relief of Joseph F. WUson. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The hour allotted to this business· has ·expired. ORDER OF BUSINE'3S. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I move to dispense with the morning hour. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The SPEAKER pro temp, ore. The morning hour is dispensed with. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I move that the House now resolve itself into 

the Committee of the Whole Honse on the state of the Union for the 

consideration of general appropriation bills. 

'l'lle motion was agreed to. , The House accordingly resolved itself into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union (Mr. SPRINGER in the chair), and resumed 

the consideration of the bill (H. R. 8138) making appropriations for the 

service of the Post-Office Department for the fiscal year ell ding J nne 30, 

1886, and for other purposes. , ) The CHAIRMAN. The House is now in Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union for the consideration of the Post-Office appropriation bill. The gentleman from Maine [1\Ir. DINGLEY] is entitled 

to the floor. · [Mr. DINGLEY concluded remarks begun and printed on page 1444.] 

:Mr. HOLMAN. l\lr. Chairman, the feature ofthis bill which seems to command most attention and which is of the most practical importance is that iJ1 relation to the compensation of railroads for transportation of the mails. Und,oubtedly the committee is impressed with the 

importance of some reform in regard to that matter of expenditure. 

Undertheactof1873the compensation paid to railroad corporationsfor 

transportation of the mails was very materially increased. The limitations which were provided prior io that time were removed and a very 

material andstrikingincreaseof compensation to railroads provided for, 

while since that time the expenditure of the Government for service on the star routes and by steamboats has been largely reduced. The cost 

of tra~porting the mails by railroad has steadily increased notwit"Qstanding the reduction since of the 15 per cent. in 1877 and 1878, and 

at a rate that ought to arrest the attention of Congress. 

I have before me, Mr. Chairman, a statemen_t showing this extraordinary increase. The entire expenditure for transporting the mails by 

railroads, including the postal-car service in 1881, was $11,031,000. The 

estimates for 1886, after a lapse of only five years, for the same service was $17,559,205; an increase of$6,528,205. 

Mr. HORR. That includes the Union Pacific, too. 

Mr. HOLMAN,. It includes the estimates as they stood both in 1881 

and in 1886. 

Mr. MONEY rose. 

1\Ir. HOLMAN. Give me ,a moment to state tbe figures. Indicating 

the increase in five years of $6,528,205, an increase greatly beyond any 

just arid fair increase which would arise from an increase in the postal 

service. 

Mr. MONEY. Will the gentleman from Indiana. state what is. the 

XVI-95 

increase of mileage of railroads within that period, and also the bulk of 

mails carried over them ? . Mr. HOLMAN. I sought to state, ifmyfriend will allowme, amo- ment ago that it was manifest that the increase was far beyond the in~ 

crease of the postal service and far beyond the increased mileage of the 

railroad system. . Mr. HORR. Mathematics will not show that, Judge. . Mr. HOLMAN. It will still be that :five years ago $11,031,000 cov- ered the cost of the railroad postal service, which now reaches over $17,500,000. I think a mere statement of the figures is a sufficient 

indication that the basis of the adjustment of this service is wrong. 

Mr. HORR. But in that statement there are included $1,100,000 of 

the Union Pad:fic expenses, which were not in the estimates. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Does not my friend largely overstate the amount? 

I think the mail service on the Union Pacific roads could not reach 

that sum. But if I undel'Stand the estimates, in 1881 they were made 

upon the same basis as in 1886; and I think my friend will discover 

such to be the fact. I think the estimates in 1881 as in 1886 were intended to cover the Union Pacific system as well as the other roads. 

If the figures are correct, and I think they are correct as far as the es:. timates are concerned, then it is manifest that the expenditures in this 

branch of the public service are growing far too rapidly, and in some 

manner this increase ought to be arrested. 

Mr. MONEY. Will the gentleman allow me a question? 

Mr. HOLMAN. , I hope my' friend will permit me to proceed with~ 

out interruption, since I have but seventeen minutes. The gentleman 

and othel'S, unfortunately for me, occupied the greater par.t of the time 

allowed for debate, and I think occupied it well, so that I have but sev- enteen minutes at my disposal, and I trust I may be permitted to use the time· without interruption. 

Upon the basis of the increase, to which I have called attention of the 

committee, from 1881 to 1886 the expenditure for the next fiscal year, 

1887, will have reached over $20,000,000; that is to say, for the year 

1886 the increase will be $3,184,205 over the year 1885, and in 1887 

will exceed $20,000,000. '.fhis is startling increase in a single ye.'llr! 

1\Ir. HORR. But that all comes from extra weight of mails carried 

by the roads. It can not be derived from any other source, for they ean not get it from any other source. . Mr. HOLMAN. The' increase in 1886 over 1885 results from weigh~ 

ing, and that is the very thing that oug}lt to arrest the attention o~ 

Congress.. The increase from one year to another, from 1885 to 1886, 

is the enormous sum of $3,184,205, if I understand these estimates. 

Mr. MONEY. Will my friend allow me to call his attention to the 

fact that the rate of increase in the receipts, which is the measure of 

mail transportation, was for the years to which he refers as follows: 

The rate of increase in the receipts for 1880 over 1879 was 10.8 per cent.; 

for 1881 over 1880 it was 10.4 per cent.; for 1882 over 1881 it was 13.8 

per cent.; and for 1883 over 1882 it was 8.6 per cent. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I would like to yield to my friend from Mississippi 

and permit him to call attention to the figures; but the gentleman has 

had his time, and I am satisfied he could hardly-expect me to consume my time by allowing him to call up figures, when I seek to present the same facts in a different form. 

Ur. MONEY. I simply called the gentleman's attention to that in 

order that be might eonsider them in connection with )lis argument. 

Mr. HOLMAN. But the ratio of increase is not so important or definite as the actual increase in expenditure. It bas been proposed, 

if possible, to adopt some system that would cure the ext:roordinary 

result of our weighing system recognized by the act of 1873 and the 

preceding years. 

Congress in 1883 provided by law for a commission of experts to ex- amine and report to Congress what system could be adopted that would 

fix the railroad transportation of the mails at just and reasonable rates, 

and reform the injustice resulting from this sy&tem of regulating the 

compensation by'weight of the mails. That commission has made an 

exhaustive report on this subject, and, since attention has been called 

to that report of the commission during the discussion of this question, 

I ask the Clerk to read the passage marked, for the purpose of showing 

the final conclusion reaehed by them in reference to this question. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

This careful analysis of the returns of all the railroads in the United States 

points to the conclusion that as the average yield per car mile is about 26 cents, 

if the roads receive 5 mills per linear foot per mile run, or at the rate of 25 cents for a. 50-foot car, at the ordinary speed of twenty miles per hour, they will be getting a rate corresponding closely to the returns from all passenger traffic 

combined, which on the face of it would seem to be both just and reasonable, 

and the commission feel constrained to make this further qualification, that the 

regularity and fr~uency of the service, the freedom of railroads from liability, the certainty of the compensation, the exemption of the carrier from those ex- penses ordina.rilyattendingpassenger traffic, all combine to strengthen the con- viction in the minds of the commission that the rate herein recommended is both 

just and reasonable. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Now, :Mr. Chairman, when this bill was under discussion during the last session of Congress we were then informed by 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania [?rir. BISGHA::U] who addressed the 

committee touching this question to-day that the plan proposed last 

session to reduce the compensation to railroads by a reduction of 5 per 

cent. was not a. reasonable plan, and that the plan proposed by this com~ 

-
1506 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 10, 

mission was an intelligeut·and wise plan and would rednce the cost of 

the transportation of the mails over the railroa48 at least a million of 

dollars, if my memory is correct. 

The commission claim that the pla.n proposed by them will reduce 

the cost a. million dollars a year. That plan is embodied into this bill. 

This report pr~pos~ to pay the railroad companies for the transportation. of the mails a. sum substantially equal to what they would earn by the employment of the same space in the transportation of passengers. And yet they said substantially that that basis is not exactly a fair orie to the Government; that there is no responsibility in the transportation of the . mails, not so much even as in the transportation of 

freights. There is.no responsibility; it is freight transported virtually 

at the risk of the Government, and the only liability incurred by the 

railroad corporation is simply that of seeing that the mails are properly and promptly delivered; that and nothing more; while the transportation of passengers is subject to great and import-ant responsibilities. · 

Now, sir, the commission propose as the unit of the adjustment of compensatio~ to railroads the payment of 5 mills per linear foot of car space occupied by the mails {)er mile for a speed of twenty miles per 

hour or less. It is said by my friend from ~fichigan that that basis 

will greatly exceed the present cost. And that impression had reached 

the subcommittee, of which he and myself are members and the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] is chairman having charge of 

this bill. Therefore the majority of that committee have reached the 

conclusion that the basis. should be reduced 20 per cent., and that instead of paying 5 mills per linear foot of the car space occupied it shall 

be 4 mills. My friend from Michigan thinks that is too low. 

Now, I have only this to say about it, the same that I was compelled 

to say nine years ago when this subject .was first befoYe the Honse andreported substantially in thesameformin which it is now, except that then 

the limit of weight was not taken into account in fixing the amount of 

space to be occupied. That· has been added as the result of the investigations of the commission. When the matter was then pending (I had 

charge of the bill) I was compelled to say to the Committee of the Whole, 

then considering the bill, it would be impossible to tell the exact effect 

of the measure until a practical test had been made; and I am com- pelled to say that is the conclusion I have reached now. I think .the 

plan must be tested practically before the exact result can be determined. The railroad postal service is a vast and complicated one. There are so many roads, and the service varies so greatly in the wide 

range between the great trunk lines running many trains daily and 

the small roads doing but 'little service and running once a day, that no amount of calculation will disclose the exact results. 

Bnt the plan is strongly recommended.- It is recommended by the 

superintendent of railway mail transportation, and by- this commission 

it is recommended-acommission appointed under the authority of Congress-a commission of very competent gentlemen. And yet I am compelled to say for myself that I do not believe it can be stated 'with 

reasonable certainty what will be the cost until the effectofthe proposition shall be determined by actual experience. · But I regard it of 

the highest moment that the plan reported by the commission shall be 

tested as far safer and better than the law under which we are now 

acting. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Both the Post-Office committees of the House 

and ofthe .Senate have also agreed to it. · Mr. REAGAN. Would it interfere with the gentleman from Indi- ana if I should ask him a. question? 

Mr. HOL:hiAN. Not at all. 

I\1r. REAGAN. I want to inquire of the gentleman for information 

whether the committee or subcommittee know what would be the cost 

of the railroad service of the trunk roads, for instance, under this 

method? 

I\1r. HOLMAN. We have all of ns made more or less calculations as to the effect on particular routes in different parts of the country; on the plan as proposed and on the basis of 4 mills for every linear 

foot car space, I think it will be found there will be some material re- duction on the basis of 4 mills. I think that is certain, and tha.t there 

will be a material reduction even on the trunk lines below what is now paid. And I think I can safely answer the gentleman from Texas that 

at 4 mills there will be paid a good deal, perhaps a great deal, less than 

will be under the present law when the next weighing occurs, which 

will be in the coming spring. 

The CHAIRMAN. The time for general debate on this bill allowed 

by order of the House has expired. The Clerk will proceed to read the 

bill by patagra.phs for amendment. - The Clerk proceeded t() read the bill, and read the following paragraph: 

For compensation to postmasters, $12,300,000, 

lli. HORR. ! .offer the amendment which I send to the desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Strike out "$12,300,000" and insert " $13,000,000." 

Mr .. HORR. I offer thisamendmentsimplyfor the purpose of avoiding a deficiency in the coming year. We appropriated for this service 

in 1885 $11,000,000. In 1884 we expended $11;~83,830.87; that is, 

we expended in that year over $280,000 more than we a.pproprin.ted in 

the bill of last session for the current year. Now the Department estimates that this year there will be a deficiency of $875,000; so .that it 

will cost for this current year for that item $11,875,000. 

The Department estimates that it will cost $13,000,000 to meet the 

expenditure next year. I am aware, Mr. Chairman, that it makes no difference whatever whether we appropriate this money or not as fur as the postmasters themselves are concerned. They retain their salaries out of the money collected, and consequently it is a simple matter 

of book-keeping. All I desire is to appropriate enongh money to prevent a deficiency bill next year. And this amount is needed for that 

purpose. It does not affect the expenditure itself one mill, nor can it 

do so, becanse the compensation is :fixed by law. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. The appropriation for the salaries of postmasters in this bill is an increa~e of $1,300,000 above the appropriatien of 

last session. It is an increase of nearly $3,000,000 over the appropriation in 1883. The eXpenditures last year for this purpose up to thA 

30th of last June did not exceed $11,283,830. This year we have rec- ommended an appropriation of over $1,000,000 more money than waa expended -last year for the salaries of postmasters. The subcommittee made careful inqniry as to the amount that would probably be 

needed to compensate postmasters, and it was my firm conviction that 

$12,000,000 would cover every necessary expenditure for that purpose; 

but the general committee, after thoroughly considering the question, 

in order to cover aU possible danger of a deficiency, authorized an in- crease upon that sum of 300,000. It was the ()pinion of the members 

·of. the committee generally, as I understood, with perhaps the.exception of the gentleman from Michigan [Mr. Ho:&R], that the appropriation of $12,300,000 would avoid the possibility of any deficiency what- ever. 

Mr. HORR. Will the gentleman say that, from a single man con- nected with the Department, he has ever had any estimate or statement that the amount in this bill is sufficient to meet the requirements of this branch of the service ? 

lli. TOWNSHEND. I will say this: That the estimate of the Department is purely speculative. The Department estimates that there 

will be a percentage .of increase corresponding to that of some yeo.rs 

past; but that is altogether a speculative estimate. I call the attention 

of the gentleman from Michigan [Mr. Ho:&R] to the fact that notwithstanding we appropriated last year $1,300,000 less than the appropriation in this bill, the Department has not yet sent to the Committee on Appropriations any request for a deficiency. 

Mr. HORR. They do not have to. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Wait until I get through. I know what the 

gentleman from Michigan [lli. Ho:&RJ is going to say. He is going 

t.o say that an inqniry was sent to the Department-perhaps by some individual-and that some of the officers of the Department have said 

that ~t is probable that there will'be a deficiency of $700,000 or $800,-

000. 

:Mr. HORR. Eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Well, suppose .there should be; still we appropriate here a half a million more than that possible deficiency and the 

deficiency of last year. If there should be a deficiency-and that is 

only a matter of speculation-of, say, $800,000, then it would only re- quire for the current year, up to .June next, $11,800,000. Now, in 

order to guard against the danger of a deficiency next year, we have 

added over $500,000 to that amount. I am quite convinced, Mr Chairman, that if the sum recommended in this bill be appropriated there 

is no danger of any deficiency. 

Let me say further, that I think the increase in the aggregate amount 

needed for the salaries of postmasters will be much less in the future 

than it bas been in the immediate past. The bulk of the increase last 

year resulted from the fact that we increased the salaries of postmasters, and the law was made retroactive so as to embrace arrears of salaries for the six months preceding. It was that unexpected retroactive 

feature of the bill that swelled the appropriations.in 1884. But no such 

question will arise under the present bill. There are no arrears of salaries to be appropriated for, and I am convinced from the investigation 

I have made that with an appropriation of $12,300,000 we shall have a surplns to be returned into the Treasury rather than .a deficiency. 

The CHAIRMAN. The time for debate upon this paragrat>h has expired. . . Mr. HORR. · I move to strike out the last word. The speech which 

the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] has made is precisely 

the saru.e speech made by him upon the Post-Office bill last year. I 

do not find fault with it because it is a repetition, for good things will 

bear repeating. [Laughter.) He stated at that time that the amount 

which w.e put into that bill would cover, in his judgment, more than 

the expenditures of tlie year for the compensation of postmasters. I 

tried then to get him to increase it $750,000, and told him I fearM his 

estimates were made in a sort of general, hazy way, without any definite computations. Mr.TOWNSHEND. Yet,althoughweonlyappropriated$11,000,000 

last year-$1,300,000 less than the appropriation in this bill-there has 

been no demand for a deficiency. 

Mr. BINGHAM • . It is not time yet. 
1885. ·CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1507 

Mr. HORR. But notwithstanding the gentleman from illinois [Mr. 

TOWNSHEND] said that the amount in the bill would be sufficient, we are now told by the officer in charge of that branch that if the expenses 

continue for the next six months as they have been for the last six 

months there will be a deficiency of $875,000. I told the gentleman at 

the time. that that deficiency would have to be made up, but he would 

not belie~e it, and now he eomes here and claims thesame thingagain. 

Mr. Chairman, I have an idea that these are the actual facts of the case. The officers up there in the Department have made their estimates carefully, upon mathematical bases, while my friend from illinois has simply said: '' I guess we can keep this bill down if we cut 

out six or seven or eight hundred thousand dollars; so let us cut it out, 

and let it go at that.'' Itd6es not do any harm to the service in the end, 

:Mr.Chairman; I do notcaremuchabout it, only I would like, if possible, 

to have a little business principle infused into this bill at this end of 

the Capitol I am going to insist on that as far as I can, but if the 

House will not consent to it, then let the bill go over to the other end 

of the Capitol and let them do there as they did last year-insert the · business principle into it for us, as they will do. · :Mr. BINGHAM rose. The CHAIRMAN. Debate on pending amendments is exhausted. 

.Aij the Chair understands, the formal amendment is withdrawn. 

Mr. BINGHAM. I move to amend th~ amendment by striking out 

the last word. . Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman in charge of this bill 

asserts that no executive communication has been received by this 

House with reference to the suppORed deficiency in oompensation of 

postmasters, I wish to remind him that we are not within six months 

of the time when such a ·communication may, according to the usage, 

be expected. Postmasters are paid under a general statute, and they 

take from the revenues of their offices the compensation they are allowed 

under the law. The compensation of postmasters of the first, second, 

and third classes is regulated by the actual amount of business done in 

their office, so that they can determine to the very cent the compensation that they are allowed by law. The compensation of postmasters 

of the fourth class is determined by the amount of stamps canceled in 

their offices, so that they also know e:uctly the compensation they are to receive. 

The gentleman refers to the appropriation for 1884. I hold in my 

hand the estimates of deficiencies for 1884; now before the gentleman's 

committee, and I find there the following: ."Three hundred and thirtythree thousand dollars, amount retained by po tmasters in excess of 

appropriations.'' 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. That is to meet a deficiency in the appropriations of the last Congress. 

Mr. BINGHAM. Of course. But nev~r mind that. We can not 

have from the Department a statement of the deficiencies for the present fiscal year until the meeting of the next Congress. · Mr. TOWNSHEND. The appropriation for the year in which that 

deficiency of more than $300,000 occurred was only_$9,250,000. 

Mr. BINGHllf. r grant that. But I am calling the gentleman's 

attention to the fact that the estimate of deficiency for postmasters' 

salaries during the present fiscal year will not come to this House until 

the meeting of the next Congress. That is all I have to say on this 

point. I withdraw the pro forma amendment. 

1t1r. TOWNSHEND. Mr. Chairman, of course the Committee of the 

W.kole will do as they please about this matter--

1\!r. HOLMAN. A single word before my friend from illinois proceed8. It is oonceded that no harm will be done if we make a mistake 

about this item. 

Mr. BINGHAM:. None whatever. 

Mr. HOLUAN. The subcommittee believe that the amount proposed in the bill is sufficient. If it is not sufficient, no injury can be 

done to this branch of the public service. 

Mr. BINGHAM. That is true. 

Mr. HOLMAN. So I submit we ought not to spend time over this 

matter. 

Mr. BINGHAM. I agree to that. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I merely wanted to supplement what my colleague on the committee has said by calling attention to the fact that we this y~r have raised this appropriation over $3,000,000 beyond the 

appropriation for 1884. Is it -possible that the salaries of the postmn.sters of this country are growing so rapidly that it beoome.<; necessary to 

increase this appropriation every two years to the extent of more than 

$3,000,000? If this be the fact, the time has come when we should see whether we can not reduce the salaries of postmasters. 

Mr. MONEY. · You can do it by decreasing the business. There is no other way. 

1t1r. TOWNSHEND. But I do not ask a reductionoftheir salaries. 

I am confident, from what I know of the appropriationsofthe past (ew 

years, th"-t this sum named in the bill, $12,300,000, w:ill pay every 

dollar of the salary of every postmaster in the land. I have no fear 

whatever" on that point. It was out of abundant caution that the subcommittee recommended the increase this year to $12,000,000; and it was still further out of abundant caution that the general committee 

added $300,{)00. . 

I see no reason whatever for an increase upon this item of tlie bill, 

except a wanton desire to swell these appropriations far beyond what 

may be needed for the public service. 

1t1r. HORR. What does the gentleman mean by "wanton" with 

reference to this matter? Will the amount of the appropriation affect 

the amount expended to the extent of one cent? 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. I admit it will not; but where is the honesty or good sense of appropriating vast sums of money where there is no 

need for it? 

Mr. HORR. What can there be "wanton" in the appropriation if 

the amount of expenditure is fixed by law? 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. It is a. wanton disregard of. a proper sense of 

economy to appropriate large sums of money for which there can be no 

need. · 1\Ir. CUTCHEON. Will the making of this appropriation as proposed cause the salaries of the postmasters to cost any more? 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Not atall; and if the sum appropriated should 

nof be quite large enough, as said by the gentleman from Indiana, no possible injury can result. · Mr. CUTCHEON. Can anything be saved by cutting the appropriation down? · 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Butweshould not appropriate more than will 

be ~uireQ.. . . 

The question being taken on the amendment of Mr. Hom~ to strike 

out, in lines 25 and 26, "$12,300,000" and insert "$13,000,000," ·it was not agreed. to; there being-ayes 40, noes 55. 

The Clerk read as followa: 

For comp~nsation to clerks in post-offices, $5,100,000. 

Mr. HORR. I move, in line 28, to strike out "one" and insert 

"three;" so it will read "$5,300, 000." And I Will yield the iloor to 

the gentleman from lllinois {l\Ir. CANNON]. · Mr. CANNON. I wish to say a word, !rlr. Chairman, in reference to 

these Po3t-Office appropriations. Now, the appropriation for the cur- rent fiscal year is $4,900,000. There is in addition a deficiency estimate for $75,0()0 more, which has not yet been passed upon. For some months it has been impossible throughout the length and breadth of 

the country to get any allowance-for clerk-hire for separating offices or for offices of the first and second class. The truth is, where the salary 

is less than $2,000 th~ postmaster pay.s his own office-rent, his own clerk-hire, and except where there are star routes or cross railroads, 

where he is required to distribute or separate the mails, and where oc:- casionaJly a small allowance is made for separating-and .there is within 

my own knowledge in my own section, and I understand it is so throughout the country generally-this class of postmasters have not only to 

pay their own clerk-hire, their own office-rent,. for their own fuel and 

lights, but they have to draw on their own salaries-and it·is equally 

true of fourth-class offices-to pay for the large amount of work which 

is thrown upon them.· · . I thought last year this appropriation was not sufficient. I still think so. For the coming yea!' I believe the full estimate ought to be given, 

if you expect to have good service for the convenience of the people. 

I must say I am not as anxious about it this year as I was last year. 

[Laughter.] 

Yon gentlemen are soon to take charge of these offices, or rather your 

party is soon to administer the affairs of the Post-Office Department as well as of the other Departments of the Government. Whatever party or Executive may administer them, in my judgment there should be 

sufficient money appropriated to carry on the service so as to give the 

people the ampleSt facilities. I do not think this bill recommends 

enough, and therefore I shall vote for the amendment of the gentleman 

from Michigan. Still I would be frank and say that if you gentlemen on the other side of the House do not want an increase, for one I am not going to push it on you. That is all !desire to say on the subject. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I trust the committee will observe the fact that the 

increase for this service over the present year is $300,000. 

Mr. BINGHAM. No, $200,000. 

1t1r. HOLMAN. Yes, $200,000; and gentlemen will see that this is a very material increase. 1\fr. Gresham, the late Postmaster-General, 

issued an order to the postmasters, as gentlemen will remember (and I 

hope gentlemen will not forget that fact), in which he admonished 

them that clerical force was not intended to supersede their active participation in the dnties of their respective post-offices; that the postmaster was expected to render efficient service in the discharge of the 

duties of his office. I admit thi,s had more directreference to the postalorder system than to the general duties of post-offices; but it was a. significant fact, and it is a fact which Congress should take notice of. 

The attention of postmasters was called to the fact they were to render a proper degree of service in oonnection with the post-offices over which 

they were placed. I believe, sir, with an increase of $200,000 a year 

you are making ample provision for that branch of the service. I am 

in favor ofappropriating all that is necessary, and $200,000 increase is 

undoubtedly sufficient. Any amount above that would, in my judgment, be unnecessary and extravagant. · 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I wish to ask the gentleman a ques-
1508 CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 10, 

tioii for the purpose of explanation. I want to know how it is that • the allowance for clerk-hire for Birmingham, 4-la., which bas gross re- ceipts-- · 

Mr. HOLMAN. What page? . 

Mr. HEWI'.PT, of Alabama. Page 681 of the Postmaster-General's 

report. I wish to knowwhyitis that the office of Birmingham, .Ala., 

is allowed but $1,652 for clerk-hire, while in the same State the office 

of Selma, which bas receipts of only $60Q-over a thousand less than 

Birmingham-is allowed $2,223. .Also, why the city of Vicksburg, 

Miss., which has $100 less of gross receipts than Birmingham, is allowed $3,000 for clerk-hire. I wish to lm.ow if there can be any ex- planation why such difference is made in these offices. You will find 

the same running through the whole report. 

Mr. HOUIAN. I think there is some explanation, for this. Undoubtedly in some degree the distribution of the clerical force is arbitrary. "The Postmaster-General assigns clerks to post-offices according 

to his own discretion. · I should ta'ke· it for granted that postmasters 

who are ma&t; persistent in asking assistance in the way of clerical force 

wouldbemost.likelytoobtain it. Thereisanotherexpllitnationto which 

I wish to call the attention of the gentleman from Alabama, and that 

is this: Some of these offices are distributing offices for other points to 

and still the pressure and demand will come up ·for higher appropriations and a larger number of clerks. One reason in my judg'ment why 

General Gresham, who was a most excellent officer, asked for no more than he did was because he discovered that. the clerical force was not 

properly distributed; that in some offices there were more clerks than 

there ought to be, and in some offices there were less than theye ought 

to be in accordance with the amount appropriated. The report which 

the gentleman from Alabama has read confirms that conviction of the 

late Postmaster-General, for it is well known that in some States where 

the population is much less than in others they have received a large 

allotment for clerical force-twice as much as is given to others. I can give the House the reason for it and the authority for believing that 

there ought to be a readjustment or redistribution of the clerks in postoffices. My authority is the late Postmaster-General himself in his re- port at the last session of Congress. I read from page 11 of the report 

of the Postmaster-General last year upon this very question. What is 

his language? He says: 

PostJ;Dasters, backed as many of them are by influential friends, have in some cases been unreasonable in their demands for allowances, and it is not surpris- ing that some of them have received more than their share of the appropriation, while others have received less. · 

a greater extent than others. ~ such cases the1·e would be a larger My friend and colleague from illinois [Mr. CANNON] seems to feel 

amount of clerical service required in proportion to the amount of rev- considerable anxiety that we may not provide appropriations enough to 

enue received than in some other offices. There in s<>me instances may employ all the clerks that will be needed under the incoming adminisbefound the explanation ofthe difference he states. But the distribution tration. I want to say here, sir, at the very threshold of the incomof ·this fund is entirely under the control of the Postmaster-General, ing Democratic administration, that I want to see it prove itself true to 

and he is necessarily besieged with applications for increase of clerical the fust fun,damental Democratic principle of economy; I want to see 

force, and favoritism undoubtedly prevails in the service, which accounts the incoming Democratic administration practice what we have been 

in a large degree for the difference in the clerical force of different offices. preaching under Republican administrations. [Applause.] I want to 

The CHAIRMAN. Debate upon the pending amendment is ex- seetheexpendituresoftheGovernmentkeptwithinreasonable bounds. 

hausted. But if I could be convinced that this appropriation is not large enough 

Mr. BINGHAM. I move to strike out the last word. I would be perfectly willing to accede to the dellll\Ild that is made. 

Mr. Chairman, Ihavejustthistosay: thatifitwas clearly understood (Here the hammer fell.] 

how this appropriation will ~e applied under the ·law .and under the dis- Mr. BINGHAM. I withdraw the pro forma amendment. 

cretion of the Postmaster-General there should be no difficulty in voting Mr. HISCOCK. I renew it. I confess I am surprised there has not 

for the amen,dment and the recommendatio11 of the Department. There been a very large reduction in the appropriations for this branch of the are almost six hundred first and second class post-offices, as well as 2, 300 service; that there is not a reduction in salaries, and that the employes ·separating offices. 'rhis appropriation is disbursed and distributed are not called upon to work more hours. I did expect the gentleman 

among this number of offices. 'These offices return to the Government from Illinois (:!VIr. ToWNSHEND] would present a bill here that would .60 per cent. of the postal rev!'lnues. There are 8,240 subordinates in point directly in the direction of economy . 

. the clerical force of the first ;and second class post-offices. This does Now, if the next administration is to be economical, I, for one, am op- .not include the separating offices, where the average is about $240 to posed to making appropriations so that they can turn a large surplus 

the 2,300 separating offices. into the Treasury. I think that would be imwise, and it seems to me The appropriation for this year is in deficiency $75,000. .As recom- the gentleman fi·om Tilinois instead of having increased any of these 

mended by the committee your bill appropriates $200,000·in addition appropriations should have decreased them. 

to the allowance for the present fiseal year. But we know to-day that \Ve have been lectured hero for the last eight years on the excessive 

the allowance for the present fiscal year is $75,000in deficiency. There- appropriations for the Post-Office Department, and now I understand 

fore for the next fiscal year, upon the information that we possess to- the gentleman from illinois has brought in a bill here actually increasday, the bill appropriates but $125,000 additional. ing the appropria~ions for the different branches of that service; and I 

That appropriation to this class of post-offices, which pay 60 per have risen, sir, only for the purpose of expressing profound surprise 

cent. of all the revenues and gross receipts from your service, will give that that should be the faet. 

to this vast body of offices but one hundred and fifty-six men at $800 ·What does the great Democratic party .interid to do? This is the a year compensation. It will not give an allowance to any of the sep- first appropriation bill for this Department, the money voted by which 

arating offices, nor will it promote a single man .in the service to-day, is to be expended by the incoming administration; and here the country 

that numbers 8,240. is presented with a bill which proposes to increase the amount. It 

I want to say in this connection, representing a large city constitu- does seem to me the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HOL..'\I.A.N] and the 

ency as I do, that there are grave and serious apprehensions that the gentleman from lllinois (l\1r. TOWNSHEND] have been somewhat derebnsiness interests of our community will be seriously hampered if a lict in their duty. · 

full and fair appropria.tion is not made for our postal facilities. Under l\lr. HORR. I rise to oppose the pro forma amendment. I am very 

the general statute to-day the Postmaster-General to all outlying sec- glad to hear my friend from Illinois (Mr. TOWNSHEND] indorse the 

tions of the country can locate post-offices; and again under the general accuracy, abilitv. and integrity of Postmaster-General Gre..~ham: bestatute the postmasters will receive their compensation. But to the cause the estimates upon ~hich this bill was drawn were made by that 

districts that have a fixed post-office, like New York and Philadelphia, gentleman: .In the bill the gentleman has presented here he has cut we must make and we must demand for our convenience ·appropriations down the estimates of his ideal, and proposes to have an incoming adunder the general appropriation bill for clerk -hire and carrier force; ministration run this Department for $3,000,000 less than this ideal of 

and I further make the statement that the business of the Department his says it can be run with. 

will not be carried on under the meager increase of $125,000. lli. TOWNSHEND. Does the gentleman from Michigan say that 

[Here the hammer fell.] Postmaster-General Gresham prepared these estimates ? He had been 

l\Ir. TOWNSHEND. :Mr. Chairman, the appropriation for the cur- appointed judge before the estimates were prepared. 

rent year givestheentireamountcalled for by the Department. Every Ur. HORR. The estimates were made before Ju9ge Gre$am went 

dollar estimated for by the Postmaster-General wM given by Congress out. 

for the current year; but it seems that the Postmaster-General-and I Mr. TOWNSHEND. I venture the assertion that Judge Gresham am willing to admit it-did not make quite as large an estimate as did not pass on these estimates. · · should have been made, as appears from the present condition of things Mr. HORR. Last year you cut down the estimates of the same Postin the Post-Office, and for that reason a deficiency of $75,000 is asked master-General $4,000,000, and ;had it not been for the wisdom of 

for. another body that bas to revise these bills our service would be to-day 

Now, in order to avoid a d~ficiency for next year we have given an with a deficiency of over $4,000,000. 

increase of $200,000, which will be $125,000 more than the appropria- The gentleman from Illinois says he does this because he wants to 

tion that is made for the current year and the deficiency for this year keep good the word the Democrats have been giving to the people that 

which is asked for. But, as I have said, we gave all of the estimates they are to run things economically. Bless your sonl, Brother Tow·Nfor the current year-- SHEND, do riot trouble yourself about that. [Laughter.]. Nobody 

Mr. BINGHAM. Why, does not the gentleman know that yon cut understood you intended that in earnest. Bht let me say to you right 

down the estimates nearly $5,000,000? here, if you run these Post-Office matters as economically as theReMr. TOWNSHEND. I can not yield to the gentleman now for an publicans have done in the last four years you will get the encomiums 

interruption: I say all was given that wa.s estimated (or. of the people of this country. You can not can-y the mails and do this 

;Now, this is an item of the bill that we can increase ro any amount, _work for any less money than it is being done fo;r now; and, as I said 
-

' 1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1·509 

yesterday, it will be a sorry day for this nation when the Post-Office 

bill of one year is smaller than the bill for th~ year preceding it. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I agree with you. 

Mr. HORR. It mast be in the necessity of things larger. 

Now, what I have offered here is to give a little money to help out 

the distributing offices that are growing up all over the United States. 

Wherever a railroad line is run, and star routes cross it, an increase of 

work arises, and it takes clerks to distribute that mail. Do you think 

the Democrnts will distribute it without pay? [Laughter.] Will you 

get some Democrats to work at it for nothing? liy impression is, :Mr. 

Chairman, that if this work is to be done, ~d Democrats are going to 

do it, they will have to eat and drink like other men. So far as I 

know they are not visionary either on eating or drinking. [.Laughter.] 

It is an actual business with them, and I propose simply to give mo:gey 

enough to keep this service in a respectable condition. But if you do 

not want it, all right; I am not going to worry over it. 

The pro forme£ amendment was withdrawn. 

The question was taken on Mr. HOBB's amendment to strike out 

$5,100,000 and inser~ $5,300,000; and tbere were-ayes 92, noes 31. 

So (further count not being called for) the amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. MOl-lEY. I offer the amen<lment which I send to the desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

. After line 28 insert the following: 

"And postmasters are authorized, with the. approva.l of the Postmaster-General;to assign at any time any clerk or employe of their respective post-offices to duty in anybranch thereof: Provided always, Thatanyemploy6 shall be paid 

!rom money-order funds for such time as he is engaged in money-order work." 

Mr. MONEY. Postmaster-General Gresham made a ruling that no clerk or employe of the Post-Office paid in whole or in part from the 

allowa11ce for postal funds should be employed in the money-order 

business, and issued an order {No. 12) to that effect. · The result is that a clerk who is paid to transact the money-order 

business can not be put at any other work whatever. The money-order business may not occupy him one-third of his time, yet lmder this 

ruling of the Postmaster-General (which is a proper construction of theJaw) the postmaster can not put the clerk at any other work. And, 

mce 11ersa, a clerk engaged in ordinary postal -business can not be detailed to assist in the money-order department even though he ma.y 

have nothivg else. to do. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that this 

paragraph be passed over informally for the present, so that my friend 

from :Mississippi [Mr. MoNEY] may offer this proposition later, after 

the matter has been examined. . · Mr. MONEY. I have no objection at all to that arrangement. 

The CHAIRMAN. There being no objection, this paragraph will be 

passed over for the present with the understanding that the gentleman 

from Mississippi [Mr. MoNEY] may offer his amendment at a subsequent time. 

Mr. AIKEN. I desire to offer an amendment which I send to the 

Clerk's desk to be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

After the word dollars, in line 28, insert : · "Three million five hundred thousand dollars of which shall be paid to clerks 

in first-class offices, $900,000 to clerks in second-clalSS offices, and $700,000 to clerks 

in third-class post-offices." . 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order on that amendment that -it proposes new legislation and increases expenditures. 

Mr. AIKEN. The gentleman is mistaken; there is not a .word of 

increase in the amendment. On the contrary, it looks directly wecon- omy, and therefore it seems to me that it is not amenable to the point 

of order. I hold, sir, that it is legislating in the direction of economy 

ro say exactly where and how thepublic moneyshall.bespent,andnot 

allow any office:r of the Government to distribute it when~ he pleases, 

to the advantage of his friends and the disadvantage of other servants 

of the Government. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will rule upon the point of order. 

Mr. AIKEN. I do not care about the point of order; but is it in or- der, l!:lr. Chairman, for me to say a few words on the amendment? 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of opinion that this amendment is 

not subject to the point of order, as it merely provides for the distribution of the money appropriated in the bill, and does not increase ex- penditure. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Why, sir, it increases the appropriation $300,-

000. 

Ur. AIKEN. It does not increase it a dollar-not one dollar. It 

looks to the economical distribution of the money appropriated by the 

bil1, ana it is entirely germane to this paragrc.~.ph. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is informed that the amendment does 

not increase the amount of the appropriation. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Let it be read again. 

The Clerk again read the amendment as above printed. 

. Mr. HOLMAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise to a point of order. 

Mr. AIKEN. If the committee will allow me to explain my own amenllment they will be at least edified. . . Mr. TOWNSHEND. I have madethepointof order, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Just a word, Mr. Chairman. Tbepropositioncontained in this amendment does not reduce expenditures; it does notreduce tp.e amoqnt appropriated by the bill or by the pre8ent law. ~ It 

simply provides for the mode of distributing a certain portion of the 

money appropriated in the bill, and that mode is contrary to the pro- . visions of an existing statute. I will call the attention of the Chair to 

the present law, if it is important in this connection; but it c:m not be 

important, because under clause 3 of Rule XXI, an amendment, to be 

in order, must reduce expenditure, and this does not reduce expenditure but merely".provides for the disposition to be made of the money. 

Mr. AIKEN. Mr. Chairman, do I tmderstand the Chair to decide 

that this amendment is not in order? 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chaii is of opinion that this amendment is 

not subject to the point of order, and will ~bmit the question to the 

committee on its merits. 

l!Ir. AIKEN. Then I hope the House will hear me while I proceed 

to explain the amendment, and I will not submit to interruption. 

Mr. HOLl\IAN. 1\Ir. Chairman, there is so much confusion in the 

Hall that I did not bear the decision of the Chair. 

The CHAIRUAN. The Chair overruled the point of order. 

Mr. 'HOLUAN. l!Ir. Chairman, I rise to a point of order. When 

the ruling of the Chair was understood by me I at once rose to take an appeal. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is in ol'der. · Mr. HOLMAN. I appealf1·pm the decision of the Chair, and on that 

appeal I desire to say but a word. I ask tho Clerk to read clause 3 of 

Rule XXI. 

The Cle:rk read as follows: 

No appropriation shall be reported in any general appropriation bill, or be in 

order as an amendment thereto, for any expenditure not previously authorized 

by law, unless in continuation of appropriations for such public work.s'a.t:td objects as are already in progress. Nor shall any provision in any such bill or; amendment thereto changing existing law be in order, except such as, being german~ to the subject-matter of the bill, shall retrench expenditures by thereduction of the number and salary of the officers of the United States, bythe re- d uction of the compensation of any person paid out or the Treasury of the United 

States, or by the reduction of amounts of money covered by the bill. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I now ask the Clerk to rea.d sections 3859 and 

3860 of the Revised Statutes. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

SEC. 3859. The Postmaster-General may designate offices at the intersection 

of mail-routes as distributing or sepa:rating offices; and where any such office is 

of the third, fourth, or fifth class be may make a reasonable allowance to the 

postmaster for the necessary cos.t of clerical services arising from such duties. 

SEC. 3860. The Postmaster-General may allow to the postmaster at New York 

city, and to the postmasters at offices of the first and second classes, out of the 

surplus revenues of their respective offices, that is to say, the excess.ofbox-rents 

and commissions Gver and above the salary assigned to the office, a reasonable sum for the nece8Sal'y cost of rent, fuel, lights, furniture, stationery, printing, clerks, -and necessary incidentals to be adjusted on a satisfactory exhibit of the 

facts, and no such allowance shali be made except upon the order of the Post- master-General. · 

Mr. HOJ~M.AN. Those two provisions of law determine the manner in which ibis clerical service shall be furnish~ to the various postoffices. Clause 3 of Rule XXI requires it shall affirmatively appear 

that a legislative provision upon an appropriation bill retrenches ex- penses. This amendment not·only proposes to change the law as read 

by the Clerk, but it does so without any pretense of retrenchment. On 

the contrary, it provides for the payment of the money in a different 

mode and under different authority from that provided for by existing 

law. .And the method of payment proposed in the amendment must 

eventually result in a very heavy increase of expenditure. 

The CHAIRMAN. Before submitting this appeal to the committee ~ Chair desires to say that in ruling originally upon this question he 

gave-butlittJa...thought to it. The attention of the Chair, as well as the committee, havm ~ especially called to the matter, the 

Chair desires to give the reasonsl"Or1lie occisum that he made. 

In the opinion of the Chair the third clause of Rule XXI does not 

apply to this provision at all. If the provision now proposed as an - amendment had been included in the bill as reported-appropriating 

$3,500,000 for clerks of the first class, $900,000 for clerks of the second 

class, and $800,000 for clerks of the third class-it seems to the Chair 

the provision would not have been a change of existing law or obnoxiQus to the rule. 

Mr. V A.LENTINE and Mr. HOLMAN rose. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair desires to conclude his statement of 

the grounds. of his ruling. 

l!Ir. HOLMAN. Allow me a single additional word. The Chair 

must perceive that. the present law applies to first and second class 

offices, while this provision extends to third-class offices. 

The CHAIRMAN. The question whether an amendment increases or diminishes the amount proposed to be appropriated does not nec- essarily bring it within or exclude it from Rule XXI, as the Chair un• derstands. It frequently happens thn.t appropriations for a given year are larger or smaller than for the preceding year. But that c;onsidemtion does not change the fact that this is a work already existing, and 

that Congress must appropriate the necessary amount therefor . 

. The Chair is not passing upon the question whether more is appropriated for these various classes of offices than ought to be appropriated; 

but simply rules that it is within the province of the House, in making appropriations, to designate the particular obj~cts for which the 

• 
• 

1510 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 10, 

appropriations are made; and by such a specific designation of objects Rule XXI is not violated. . Mr. VALENTINE. Has the Chair noticed the fact that this amendment entirely excludes fourth-class offices, and does thereby change ex- isting law? Under this amendment not one dollar of the present appropriation can be used for the fourth-class offices. 

The CHAIR1t1A.N. The Chair would entertain an amendment to 

provi,de for fourth-class offices. It must not be supposed that the Chair 

is bound to suggest necessary or proper amendments to this bill; the 

Chair merely rules upon the question whether a proposition is subject 

to the point of order. 

ltir. OATES. Now let us have a vote on the appeal. 

The CHAIR1t1A.N. The gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HOLMAN] 

has appealed from the decision of the Chair. The question is, Shall 

the decision stand as the judgment of the committee? 

The Committee of the Whole having voted on the 9.uestion, The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is in doubt, and would prefer to appoint tellers. [Cries of '' Oh, no!"] The Clerk will count the vote. 

The question having been again ta.ken, there were-ayes 54, noes 34. 

So the decision of the Chair was sustained. · The CHAIRMAN. The question is now on the amendment submitted by the gentleman from South Carolina [:rtir. AIKEN], on which 

the gentleman is entitled to the floor. 

Mr. AIKEN. In order to meet the objection urged by the gentle- man from N eb:raska. [Mr .. VALENTINE] I ask consent of the committee 

to amend my own amendment by inserting after the word ''third 7

' 

the words ''and fourth.' 1 

Mr. VALENTINE. Will that be sufficient? 

1tir. AIKEN. This gives a discretionary power to the PostmasterGenerai to the ex~nt of 800,000, bn,t not as to the bulk of the money 

appropria.ted. 

Now, it seems to be the·desire ofthe House to know how I have ar- rived at this suggestion for the distribution of this money. I simply 

took two or three annual reports of the Postmaster-General and added 

up what they report had been disbursed for the benefit of these respecti ve offices. Taking the first class, then the second class, and then the 

third class, I found the amount given the first-cla-ss offices even in the 

last fiscal year to be $85_,000 less than is allowed in my amendment, so that this sum may be added next year to what ·has been expended 

this year for first-class offices. ·I take it that will be quite sufficient, as th~ past year we.have bad an increase of only three first-class offices. 

Then I took the second-class offices and found it· in the same way. 

I added up the amount disbm:sed through them for clerk-hire for two 

or three years, and discovered that the amount I have inserted in this 

amendment will give a margin of $130,000 surplus to be expended for 

the incoming year. And I simply ask that the Postmas~er-General be 

required to disburse the remainder- of -the appropriation in s~curing 

clerical help to the third and fourth class offices. 

Mr. Chairman, I stated yesterday that second-class offices got 17 per 

cent. on their net revenue for clerk-hire, and last year this amounted 

to only $820,000. Third-class offices paid nearly $600,000 more into 

the Treasury than second-class offi,ces, and they received less than 17 

per cent. The entire amount they received, although numbering 2,160, was only $420,000. This amendment gives them at least $350,000 more for the next fiscal year: leaving 150,000 for fourth-class offices, which 

is more than was distribq.ted last year. 

Now, Mr. Chairman, with that e::q>l~nation, it does seem to me this 

is a perfectly legitimate distribution of t~is money. It does not cur- tail the authority of the Postmaster-General in disbursing the ehtjJ:.e 

sum, hut simply appropriates so many dollars f~r ~~ass-of-presidential offices, thereby: secu~8 justi iiy over-worked postmasters of that class. 

Mr. BAYNE. I rise to oppose the amendment, but priitcipally for 

information. I have heard the explanation of the gentleman from 

South Caroliba. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Let me suggest the shortest way out is to take a vote, as I am satisfied the amendment will be voted down. 

1tir. BAYNE. The gentl~man from South Carolina is mistaken in 

this matter. He asks you to make an apportionment of this money. 

He has told you how much it will give to one class, how much to an- other, and ho.w much to another. Now, what benefit is to come from 

subdivision and separation of the amount? 

Jlt!r. AIKEN. I will simply say postmasters of the third and fourth 

classes throughout the United States, working twelve and fifteen hours a day many of them, have to take the money out of their own pockets 

to pay for clerk-hire, and in my amendment these postmasters will have 

that money supplied to 'them by the Government without one do1lar 

being taken from the first and second classes. · 

:Mr. BAYNE. · I am afraid the gentleman's amendment will cripple 

the other. classes, and I lJelieve it should be voted down. [Cries of 

ference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the bill (H. R. 

7131) tQ authorize suits for damages where death results from the wrong· 

ful act or neglect of any person or corporation in the District of (}()-

lumbia. . It further announced the passage of. an act (H. R. 7785) making appropriations for the payment of invalid and other pensions of the United 

States for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1886, and for other purposes.. 

with amendments, in wbich concurrence was requested. 

POST-OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL. 

The committee resume~ its session, 1tir. SPRINGER in the chair. 

M:r. CANNON. I move to strike out the last word. I think, Mr. 

Chairman, jt would be well for the committee to understand what this 

amendment of the gentleman from South Carolina [1\Ir .. AIKEN] does. 

Under the law, as it now is, any clerk a such can be authorized, paid· for, either in third or fourth class offices: For tlte first and second class 

offices there is a provision of law which allows the Postmaster-General 

in case of separating offices to make allowance for clerk-hire. It is not 

for clerk-hire technically speaking. S.o I wish the committee to un- derstand that if thiS. amendment is adopted it makes an appropriation 

pure and simple fOt" clerk-hire at forty-five or forty-six thousand postoffices not now entitled to it under the law. A man, therefore, who 

holds a third or fourth class post-office, where there is no cro -route, 

where there is no separating to be done, may apply and receive a.portion of this appropriation for clerk-hire. Now, that effort has been 

made several times heretofore and has been opposed, and e pecially 

from that side of the House, with great force and so far successfully. 

And I undertake to say, that if this amendment is to be adopted, instead of $800,000 you want a million or two millions to satisfy the 

demand. 

That is all I desired to say, and I withdraw the pro forma amend· 

ment . . The CHAIRMAN. The. question is on agreeing to the amendment 

proposed by the gentleman from South Carolina. 

The amendment was not agreed to. 

M:r. ANDERSON. 1\Ir. Chairman-- . The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will proceed with the reading of the 

bill. 

The Clerk proceeded to read, as follows: 

For patment· of letter-carriers and incide.ntal expenses of the free-delivery 

system--:-

Mr. ANDERSON. I rose to offer an amendment. · The CHAIR?!f.A.N . . The gentleman will permit the Clerk to read 

the section through before subinitting an amendment. 

1tir. ANDERSON. I desire to offer an amendment at the point · where the gentleman from South Carolina offered his amendment. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I move that the committee do now rise. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The committee accordingly rose; and the Speaker pro tempore having 

resumed the chair, Mr. SPRINGER reported that the Committee of the 

Whole House on the state of the Union having had under consideration 

the. Post-Office appropriation bill had come to no resolution thereon. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I move that the House do now adjourn. 

The SPEAKER pro temp()re. The ~ir desires· unanimous consent 

to present the following executive communication and also to lay before tha House some personal requests of members. 

"" There was no objection. 

SILVER DOLLARS AND SILVER CERTIFICATES. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore, by unanimous consent, laid before the 

House a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, transmitting, in re- sponse to a resolution of the House of February 3, 1885, relative to the 

alleged refusal of certain banks and banking associatioQ.s to receive silver dollars a-nd silver certificates in settlement of their balances, reports 

.from the Treasurer of the United States and the Director of the :Mint; 

which was referred to the Committee on Coinage, Weights, and Meas· 

ures, and ordered to be printed. 

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

By unanimous consent, leave of absence was granted as follows: To :Mr. FERRELL, until Thursday next, on account o( important 

bnsiness. 

To Mr. RosECRANS, for to-morrow, on account of important business. To ltir. HrTT, for to-morrow, on account of important business. 

To 1t1r. RoGERS, of New York, for one week from the 11th inst~nt, 

on account of bnsiness. 

TICKETS FOR THE ELECTORAL COUNT. 

"Vote!"] The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair desires to say for the inMESSAGE li'RO!II THE SEN ATE. formation of the House that the tickets printed and issued under the 

The committee informally rose; and the Speaker pro tempore having· resolution passed. on yesterday for the reserved galleries or the House 

reaumed the chair,. a message from the Senate, by 1tir. M:cCooK, its Sec- on to-morrowdurmg the count of the electoral vote are nowm the bnndA 

robry, nnnoun('.ed ~he adoption of the report of the committee of con- _ of the Doorkeeper and subject to the order of members. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· HOUSE. 1511 

HOT SPRINGS RESERVATION, ARKANSAS. 

Mr. ROGERS, -of Arkansas {by request), by unanimous consent, iptroduced a bill (H. R. 8182) for the regulation of the Hot Springs reserva,tion, at Hot Springs, Ark. i which was read a first and second time, 

referred to the Committee on the Public Lands, and ordered to be 

printed. 

PUBLICATION OF TREATIES. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair desires to submit in obedience to·the statute the following concurrent resolution of the Senate 

for reference. 

The resolution is as follows: 

ResoLved by the Senate (the House of Repre&entatives concurring), That there be printed 9,500 additional copies of the treaties and conventions transmitted to the Senate by the President in his message of January 23, 1885, of which 1,500 

copies shall be for tlle use of the Senate; 3,000 copies for the use of the House; 41

000 copies for the use of the Department of State; and 1,000 copies for distribu- tiOn, by the Department of the Interior, among public libraries not depositories under existing laws, each Senator, Representative, and Delegate in Congress to designate two libraries to whom copies of the work shall be tllus sent. And the Public Printer is also authorized to print and })ave bound 2,000 additional copies to be sold at actual cost and 10 per cent. added. 

The resolution was referred to the Committee on Printing. 

CHA..J..-~lGE OF J;t~FERENCE OF A BILL. 

On motion of Ur. BREITUNG, by unanimous consent the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds was discharged from the further con- sideration of the bill (S. 1374) to provide for the sale of the old site of 

Fort Brady, Michigan, and·for a new site and the construction of suitable buildings thereon; and the same was referred to the Committee on Military Affairs. 

PENSION BILLS ON THE SPEAKER'S TABLE. 

Ou mo~ou of Mr. 1\IATSON, it was ordered that Senate pension bills on the Speaker's table be taken therefrom and appropriately referred. 

ORDER OF BUSINE S. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I demand the 1·egular order. 

Mr. ROGERS, of New York. I rise to submit a prhileged .report. 

The SPEAKER p1·o te-mpore. The regular order has been demanded, 

which is the motion of the gentleman from illinois that the House do now ~journ. 

Mr. ROGERS, of New York. I hope the gentleman will not insist 

upon the demand for the regular order. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. Doos the Chair understand the gentle- man to insist upon the demand? 

M:r. HEWITT, of Alabama. I withdraw the demand. 

:Mr. DUNN. I renew it. 

?tlr. ROGERS, of New York. I ask to submit a privileged report. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The regular order has been demanded. 

M:r. ANDERSON. Would it be in order to move that the House 

take a recess untilll o7clock to-morrow? 

The SPE.AKERJJrotempm·e. The Chair will state thatitwould not. 

By unanimous consent, on motion of the gentleman from Pe.nnsylvania, 

this morning it was ordered, instead of a recess to-day, that when the 

House adjourns to-day it be to m~t at 11 o'clock to-morrow. 

The question is on agreeing to the motion of the gentleman from ru~~ . The motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at 5 o'clock and 12 minutes p. m.) the House a?journed. 

PETITIONS, ETC. 

The following petitions and papers were laid on the Clerk's "desk, 

under the rule _and. -referred as follows~ 

By MI. BARKSDALE: Petition of Susan Flowers, widow of B. Y. 

Flowers, deceased, of Claiborne Connty, and of Mrs. Nancy Mitchell, 

of Copiah County, Mississippi, asking for compen ation for property 

taken and used by the United States Army during the late war-to the 

Cominittee on War Claims. 

By Mr. BAYNE: Resolution of the Grand Army of the Republic, Department of New York, aslriugCongress t,o provide for the purchase by 

the Government of the Forbes historical art collection-to the Committee on l\Iilitary Affil.irs. · 

. By Mr. BEACH: PetitionofcitizensofWestTown, N.Y., and vicinity, m reference to the Mormon question-to the Committee on the Judiciary. -

By Mr. BUDD: Memorial of the San Francisco (Cal.) Chamber of 

Commerce, favoring House bill 7163, to regulate the forms of bills of 

lading and the duties and liabilities of ship-owners and others-to the 

Committee on Commerce. · 

Also, memorial of Stockton (CaL) Board of Trade, for the ratification 

of Nicaragua treaty; also for construction of ana vy-to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. 

Also, concurrent resolution of the California Legislature, favoring a soldiers' home-to the Committee on Military Affairs. 

A1so1 petition of <:itizens of~n Joaquin County, California, asking 

for an mcrease of Widows' pensiOns-to the Committee on Pensions. 

· By Mr. BURLEIGH: Petition· of. citizens of Troy, N.Y., requesting early consideration on the Mormon question-to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By Mr. S. S. COX: Petition of George A. Hoyt, FloydJones, and38 

others, corporate and natural persons, of New York city, asking that the 

UnitedStates shall acquire the two canalswhichconnectPortageLaK.e, 

Michigan, with Lake Superior-to the Committ-ee on Rivers and Harbors. 

By Mr. DIBBLE: Petition of H. C. Rucker and of Matthew J. 

Rucker, of ·Lexington County, South Carolina, asking for compensation for property taken and used by the United States Army during 

the late war-to the Committee on 'Var Claims. 

By Mr. FOLLETT: Two petitions for the establishment of night 

schools in the District of Columbia-to the Committee on the District 

of Columbia. 

By~fr. T. J.HENDERSON: PetitionofLewisHurd, Mrs. Catharine 

Wheeler, and 26 others, of Henry County, Illinois, asking for an in- crease in widows' pensions-to the Committee on Pensions. · Also, petition of Mrs. Harriet Darby and others, citizens of Morri· 

son, Ill., asking for an increase of widows'. pensions-to the same committee. 

By Mr. HOLMAN: Petition of William A. Moulton, of Hidalgo, Ill., 

late a soldier in Comp:my D, Eighteenth Regiment Indiana Volunteers, 

for an increase of pension-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By Mr. B. W. JONES: Memorial of Business Men's :Association of 

Oshkosh, Wis., for improvement of the Fox and Wisconsin Rivers-to 

the Conunittee on Rivers and Harbors. , By Mr. LAMB: Petition from citizens of Indiana, asking that Benjamin Martain be reimbursed for property taken and used by the United 

States Army duri~g the -late war-to the Committ-ee on War Claims. , By Mr. ~!ILLS: Petition of numerous citizens of Limestone County,· Texas, asking for reduction in price of CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-to 

the Committee on Printing. 

By Mr. MULDROW: Papers relating to the claim of Daniel Peel, of 

Tishomingo County, Mississippi-to the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. POLAND: Petitions of Rev. L. C. Dickinson and others, of 

Caledonia County, and of Rev. G. F. Arms and others, of Dover, Vt.; 

praying for legislation on the Uorm.on question-to the Committee on the Judiciary. · By Jrlr. PRYOR: Papers relating to claim of Fayette Hungerford, 

with communication from the Secretary of the Navy, asking certain 

appropriations-to the Committee on Appropriations. . By Ur. PUSEY: Petition· of citizens of Council Blufl's, Iowa, asking 

legislation on the Mornu:m question-to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By Mr. G. W. RAY: Petition of citizens of Otsego County, and of 

Delhi County, New York, asking for , action by Congress on the Morman question-to the same committee. . By Mr. J. H. ROGERS (by request): Memorial of the city council 

of Hot Springs, Ark., and others, in favor of a bill for the regulation 

of the reservation at Hot Springs, Ark.-to the Committee on the 

Public Lands. 

By Mr. VAN EATON: Petition of David Singleton, of Adams 

County, Mississippi, asking compensation for property taken and used 

by the United States Army during the late war-to the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. VANCE: Petition of Solomon H. Messer, of Jackson County, 

North Carolina, for a pension-to the Committee on. Pensions. 

By Mr. RICHARD WARNER: Petition of Jeff·M. Stone, of Lincoln 

County, Tennessee, for compensation for property taken and used by 

the United States Army during the late 'War-to the Committee on War 

Claims. 

By Mr. WEMPLE: Petition of citizens of Buel, Montgomery County, 

New York, urging action by Congress on the bills before them for the 

sunnression of Mormonism-to the Committee O.ll the Judiciary. · By Mr. MILO WHITE: Petition of 96 citiZens of Freeborn County, 

Minnesota, asking legislation on the Mormon question...:...to the same 

committee. 

ByMr. W.L. WILSON: PetitionofJosephWest,ofBerkeleyCounty, _ West Virginia, asking COJIJ.pensation for property taken and used by the 

United States Army during the late war-to the Committee on War- Claims. • 

The following petitions for the passage of the Mexican war pe~ott 

bill with Senate amendments were presented and severally referred to 

the Committee on Pensions : By Mr. BUDD: Of citizens of ElDorado and of Placer Counties, 

and of Sacramento, Cal. 

By ?tir. KLEINER: Of ex-soldiers of Augusta and of Stendal, Ind. 

By Mr. L.!CEY: Of Nicholas 0. Bowen and 43 others, of Athens, 

Mich. · · 

By Mr. McCO~t:AS: Of 44 citizens of Hagerstown, Md.; of 63 citizens of Hancock, and of 63 soldiers and citizens of Hagerstown, Md. 

By 1t1r. G. W. RAY: Of citizens of Oneonta, Otsego County, New 

York.