1384 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

interf~re with the order of business. I only wish to give notice that 

at half past one o'clock to morrow I shall ask the Senate to take up 

the immediate deficiency appropriation bill to the exclusion of everything else. It is of absolute importance that that bill shall pass the 

Senate this week, for the reason that it involves, among other things, a deficiency in the public printing, which makes it necessar~ that an appropriation for that service should be passed this week if we are to continue the printing necessary for the Senate and House. 

Mr. ~fiLLER, of California. How long will that take t 

Mr. ALLISON. I do not know, but probably an hour or two. I 

merely wish to givethat noticeinorderthat.Senatorsmayknowthat 

whatever they take up to-night will be set aside to-morrow at half 

past one. The PRESIDENT pro ternpm·e. The deficiency bill will in all pro bability take up the whole of to-morrow after half past one. Mr. BLAIR. I object to any understanding that will be in an honorary way binding on any Senator as to the order of business after 

the disposition of the bill which is brought to the attention of the 

Senate by the Senator from New Jersey. I have no objection to that 

bill being now considered. · The PRESIDENT p1·o tempm·e. Does the Senator from New Jersey 

adhere to his motion T 

Mr. McPHERSON. I adhere to my motion. 

Mr. HOAR. It is quite obvious that the taking up of any meas- ure by vote to-night will be a mere idle ceremony. Here are half a dozen Senators, the Senator from New Jersey [Mr. McPHERSON] with 

his bill, the Senator from California [Mr. MILLER] with his bill, the 

Senator from Vermont [Mr. MORRUJL] with his bill, and perhaps 

others, all stru~gling to get their bills taken up to-night that they 

may be the unfinished business, when it is perfectly manifest that 

whate\er bill is taken up will be displaced by the appropriation 

bill, which always has the right of way, athalfpast one to-morrow, ana it will require to try the question all over again then. 

Mr. McPHERSON. My bill will take no time scarcely; it can be 

determined readily. 

Mr. HOAR. No matter how much time :Lt takes the appropriation 

bill will displace the pending measure, except by unanimous con- sent. You either have to have unanimous consent to lay aside the 

pending measure informally, which you will not get or you have to 

displace it by the appropriation bill. It makes no dHference whether 

it takes five minutes or five seconds, it is an entire waste of time. 

To-morrow, when the Senate gets through with the appropriation 

bill, it will be in order for either of these Senators to call up the bill 

that he wants and proceed with it. Nothing is gained by our spending this time and having a struggle now. I therefore move that we proceed to the consideration of executive business. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the motion of 

the Senator from Massachusetts. 

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the con- sid&ation of executive business. After ten minutes spent in execu- tive session the doors were reopened, and at (four o'clock and thirty 

minutes p. m.) the Senate adjourned. 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 

THURSDAY, February 23,1882. 

The House met at twelve o'clock m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. 

F. D. POWER. 

The Journal of Tuesday last was read and approved. 

CORRECTION. 

Mr. ATHERTON'. I rise to make a correction. On Tuesday last I was absent under leave of the House, obtained on last Saturday, and 

I had a pair with my colleague, [Mr. MOREY.] For some reason- ! presume through misapprehension on the part of the Clerk-that 

pair was not read on Tuesday. I desire it to appear in the RECORD 

that I was paired on that day. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman's statement will go into the RECORD ; and if further correction be needed, it can be made. 

LINCOLl.~ M01<1"'1JMEI\TT ASSOCIATION. 

Mr. ORTH. I ask unanimous consent that the bill (H. R. No. 3210) 

in reference to the trustees of the Lincoln Monument Association be 

taken from the Speaker's table for the purpose of concurring in an amendment of the Senate. 

Mr. HUBBELL. Let the bill be reported. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

Whereas owing to the large number of t.rustees named in the'' Act to incorporate 

the Lincoln Monument Association," approved March 13, 1867, it proves to be im· 

practicable for a m:~tiority of said trustees to meet for the transaction of the busi- ness of said association: Therefore, Be it enacted, et-c., That hereafter five of the trustees of said association, whether 

named in said act or subsequently appointed, shall constitute a legal quorum and 

may exercise all the powers conferred by law upon said association. 

The amendment of the Senate was read, as follows: 

Add to the bill the following: 

"Prcnrided, That each of the said trustees shall be notified by the president or secretary twenty days in advance of any meeting of said trustees." 

There being no objection, the bill was taken from the Speaker's 

table and the amendment of the Senate concurred in. 

Mr. ORTH moved to reconsider the vote by which the amendment 

of the Senate was concurred in; and also moved that the motion to 

reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. SYMPSON, one of its clerks, an- nounced that the Senate had passed without amendment the bill (H. 

R. No. 2944) authorizing the Lancaster National Bank of Lancaster, 

Massachusetts, to change its location and· name. The message also announced that the Senate had passed a bill (S. 

No. 1233) to amend an act entitled" An act to provide for the con- struction of a marine hospital in the city of Memphis, Tennessee;" in 

which the concurrence of the House was requested. 

RELIEF OF MISSISSIPPI SuFFERERS. 

:.Mr. CHALMERS. I ask unanimous consent to have read the telegram which I send to the Clerk, after which I propose to submit a resolution. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI, February 21, 1882. 

Quitman County overflowed. Thousands of colored people starving. We must have assistance at once. 

W. T. JEMISON. 

Hon. J. R. CHALMERS, Washingron, D. 0. 

Mr. CHALMERS. I ask unanimous consent to present for immediate consjderation a joint resolution, which will be found to be in 

exact accordance with the precedents of the House ofRepresentatives 

established in the Forty-third Congress. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Mississippi asks unanimous 

consent for the present consideration of a joint resolution, which the 

Clerk will read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Joint resolution (H. R. No.l43) to provide relief for Mississippi sufferers. 

Resolved by the Se:nate and House of Rep'l'esentatives, &c., That the President of 

the United States be, and he hereby is, authorized and empowered to direct the 

issue temporarily of supplies of food and disused Army clothing sufficient to Jilrevent 

starvation and suffering and extreme want to any and all classes of dest1tute or helpless persons living on or near the Lower MisslSsippi River who have been ren. dered so by reason of the present overflow of the MisslSsippi River. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the present consideration of 

this joint resolution f 

Mr. KASSON. To whom does the resolution give authority f 

Mr. CHALMERS. To the President of the United States. This is an exact copy of a resolution passed in the Forty-third Congress. 

Mr. MARSH. I simply want to ask the gentleman from Mississippi 

why he confines this resolution to people living along the Lower Mississippi River. I see by the dispatches that this oyerflow extends to 

the Ohio and along the Upper Mississippi. I object to the resolution 

in its present shape. 

lli. CHALMERS. I ask the Clerk to modify the resolution by striking out "lower." 

Mr. KASSON. Will the gentleman from Mississippi accept the suggestion that the resolution be referred to the Committee on :.Military 

Affairs with authority to report it back at any timet . Mr. CHALMERS. I will consent to that. 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection, thejointresolution will 

be considered as read a first and second time, and will be referred ro 

the Committee on Military Affairs, with leave to report it back at any time. 

There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. 

DECISIONS OF POINTS OF ORDER. 

Mr. REED. I offer the following resolution: 

Resolved, That the Journal Clerk be directed to compile for the use of the :-douse· all questions of order raised and decided in the CoDliDlttee of the Whole House on1 

the state of the Union on general appropriation and revenue bills from the Fortieth to the Forty.sixth Congress, inclusive, and {be necessary expense incurred forcopying ana indexing the same shall be paid out of the contingent fund of the· House, subject to the approval of the Committee on Accounts. 

1\Ir. Mc~llLLIN. Is there any report on that f 

~Ir. REED. I desire to say it is a proposition simply to compile· the decisions of the chairmen of the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, for a few Congresses, for our guidance in 

the passage of appropriation and revenue bills. It is a very small 

matter, the extra expense, I am informed, amounting to less than 

100. 

Mr. ATKINS. I hope my colleague will not object to it. 

Mr. REED. I have no doubt it is for the advanta.ge of the busi- ness of the House. 

1\lr. HOLMAN. We have not heard it on this side, and I ask that 

the resolution be again reported. 

1\Ir. REED. I am sure that when the House understands the reso- lution there cannot be the slightest objection to it. 

The resolution was again read. 

There was no objection, and the resolution was received a.nd agreed 

to. 

Mr. REED moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution 
1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. i385 

was agreed to; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid 

on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

UNSEAWORTHY STEAMERS. 

Mr. PAGE. Mr. Speaker, I rise to a privileged question. The 

Committee on Commerce has instructed me to report back the following resolution of inquiry, with the recommendation that it do 

pass: 

Whereas it is alleged that certain vessels, called steamers, have sailed out of the 

port of New York under the English flag, and with an American certificate allowrug them to run, among them the steamShip Bahama, lately lost; and 

Whereas it is alleged that the said la~t mentioned vessel was unseaworthy, of 

which the supervising inslJector-general of steamboat inspectors was advised, and 

that other vessels siriiilarly privileged are grossly unfit and unsafe, and the lives 

and property of our citizens put in peril thereby: Therefore, 

Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be directed to communicate to this House all information in his office or that of his subordinates in relation to such vessels, with a. view to so amend the law as to remedy such gross disregard 

ilf life and property. 

:Mr. SPRINGER. I understood the gentleman from California to 

state that this is a privileged question. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman did so state, and the Chair will 

ask whether it is a resolution of inquiry referred to that committee T 

:Mr. PAGE. Yes, it is a resolution of inquiry introduced by the 

gentleman from New York [Mr. Cox] and referred to the Committee on Commerce. I have been instructed by that committee to report 

the resolution back, with the recommendation that it do pass. 

The resolution was a-dopted. 

Mr. PAGE moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid 

on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

L.~RSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. PAGE. Mr. Speaker, I have also been requested by the Committee on Commerce to ask by unanimous consent of the House that 

the argument now proceeding before that committ~e on the question 

of interstate commerce may be printed for the use of the committee 

and for use of members of the House. 

There was no objection, and it was ordered accor<;lingly. 

Th'DIAN TREATY KEEPING AND PROTECTIVE ASSOCIATION. 

Mr. HASKELL. :Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent, as chair- man of the Committee on Indian Affairs, to present to this House a memorial letter of the Indian Treaty Keeping and Protective Association, with their petition for 1882, and to a~k that I may be permitted to read that memorial letter and the heading of the petition, 

and to have both papers printed in the RECORD. The letter will ex- plain itself, and I have no remarks to make in addition to what are eontained therein. 

This petition represents, it is claimed, a hundred thousand persons, and is pre anted here by a committee of ladies. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair hears no objection. 

1\Ir. HASKELL. I will now read the memorial letter which I have 

referred to : 

Memorial letter of the Indian Treaty Keeping and Protective .Association with 

their petition for 1882. 

To the Senate and House of Representatives in Otmgress assembled: 

.Again the women of a national Indian association be~ leave to present to your honorable body the petition they have circulated and rece1ved again from the people 

of the United States. Their roll represents, at a low estimate, considerably more than a hundred thousand citizens, mstead of thirteen thousand, a~ did their first, three years ago, and is a most earnest plea for a righteous, speedy, and permanent 

settlement of the Indian question. 

Among the petitioners are many hundreds of churches which have ado~ted the 

petition by a unanimous rising vote, this often having been taken at a regular Sabbath semce. Various popular meetings have also here presented their plea similarly expressed, while the roll contains names of members of legislative bodies, of 

governors, judges, and lawyers; names of bishops and of many hundreds of the 

Clergy, among the latter the entire minbtry of three denominations in the city of 

Pbiiadelphia, numberin~ nearly three hundred; names of the professors and stu- dents of theological semmaries like those at Hartford, Cambridge, Rochester, and 

Upla.nd; colleges and universities like Yale, Harvard, Brown, Cornell, Rochester, 

Washington and Lee; names of editors of leadin~ periodicals; the boards of hundreds of missionary and other benevolent societies, not a few of these being na- tional ones, with names of art, literary, and social clubs. Besides all these, the roll 

containR the si.,.natures of hundreds of business and manufacturing :firms who con- trol capital to The amount of many millions of dollars, and who employ many thousands of operati'\"es, all showing that not only has there been a rapid ~.rowth of sen- timent among the reli!tious and intellectual leaders of the commuruty demand.ing legislation which shalf end oppression of Indians and secure to them full opportunity for industrial, mental, and religious development, but that the commercial 

intere ts of our land al o are fast coming to demand a just and SlJeedy settlement 

of the Indian question. 

Pe1mit an expression from the association presenting to-day to your honorable 

'lody their third annual petition-an association having sixteen State committees 

and one in ea<'.h of the larger cities, with helpers in e'\"ery State, all these com- ·mittees being composed of patriotic Christian women- permit these to say that 

in til their ears and hearts comes the cry of suftering, undefended, e>eNmdangered 

Indian women and dhil<lren, and that this cry is our appeal to you to secure for them 

':egal protection; that the plea of Indian women for the sacred shield of law is the 

plea of the sisters, wives, and mothers of this nation for them, the plea of all woman- hood, indeed, on their behalf to you as legislators and as men. Permit us also to say tnat in laboring by every means in our ~ower to :fill our land with a knowledge of ·the present condition of Indians, ancl of our national obligations to them, we most leeply feel that while justice demands the recognition of Indian personality before ~he law, thus mgst surely' and simply, it seems to us, securing to Indians protection 

and fostering care, we yet feel that legislation securing this t~ognition will be an' 

honor to the present Congress and to our beloved country. For this legislation we- most earnestly and respectfully pray. 

MARY L. BONNEY, President Indian Association. A l\fEI I A S. QUINTON, Ge'Mral Secretary Indian Association. · Mrs . .A. S. QUINTON, (Chairman,) 

Mrs. SENATOR H.A WLEY6connecticut, 

Mrs. SPE.AKER KEIFER, hio, 

Mrs. BISHOP SIMPSON, Pennsylvania, 

Mrs. WILLIA..Y E. DODGE, SEN., New York, 

Mrs. REV. DR. GEORGE D. BOARDMAN, Pennsylvania, 

Petition Oommittee. 

Mr. CASSIDY. I would like to know whether the name of Sitting 

Bull is on that petition Y [Laughter.] 

Mr. HASKELL. I now ask, Mr. Speaker, that the petition for 188"2. 

of the Indian Treaty Keeping and Protective Association be read. 

The Clerk read a~ follows: 

Petition for 1882 of the Indian Treaty Keeping and Protective .Association. 

To tlte Presid-ent of the United States, and to the Senate 

and House of Representatives in Oong-ress assembled: 

We the undersigned, men and women of these United States, do most respect- fully but most earnestlY' pray our President and your honorable body: 

First. To maintain all treaties with Indians With scrupulous fidelity until these 

compacts are modified or abrogated by the free and well-considered consent of 

the Indian tribes who were also parties to these treaties. 

Second. That since thenumberof Indian children within the limits of the United 

States does not probably exceed sixty thousand or one-third the number of children 

in the public schools of some of our larger cities, and since treaties with many tribes 

already bind our Government to provide a te:wher for every thirty Indian children 

among these tribes, therefore we pray that a number of common schools sufficient 

for the education of every child of every tribe may be provided upon their reserva--- tions, and that industrial schools also may be established among them. 

Third. We pray that a title in fee-simple to at least one hundred and sixty acres of land may be granted to any Indian within the reservation occupied by his tribe 

when be desires to hold land in severalty, and that said land shall be inalienablefor twenty years. 

Fourth. We also earnestly pray for the recognition of Indian personalitY' and 

rights under the law, giving to Indians the protection of the laws of the United 

States for their persons ana property, and holding them strictly amenable to these 

laws; also givin~ them increased encoura~ements to industry and opportunity to trade, and securmg to them full religious liberty. 

Mr. HASKELL. I move those papers be referred to the Committee on Indian Affairs, and that they be printed in the RECORD. 

There wa~ no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. 

DAMAGES TO PRIVATE PROPERTY AT HOT SPRINGS, ARKANSAS. 

The SPEAKER laid before the House the following communication 

fi:om the President of the United States; which was read and, with 

the accompanying papers, referred to the Committee on the Public 

Lands, and ordered to be printed: 

To the Senate and House of Representatives: 

I submit herewith for the consideration of Congress a letter from the Secretary of the Interior, and :wcompanying papers, in which he recommends that authority 

be given for the payment of certain damages which unexpectedly occurred to the property of private persons on the Government reservation at Hot Springsr 

.Arkansas, in consequence of work performed under the direction of the super- intendent in the performance of his duty. 

EXECUTIVE MANSION, February 21, 1882. 

CHESTER .A . .ARTHUR. 

Mr. CRAVENS. Should not that be referred to the Committee on Appropriations T 

The SPEAKER. The Chair is of opinion that the usual practjce 

has been to refer such matters to the Committee on the Public Lands. 

That committee considers the question first, and recommends such 

action as may be warranted by the facts . 

DEFICIE...'Il'CY IN PATENT-OFFICE APPROPRIATION. 

The SPEAKER also laid before the House the following letter from 

the President of the United States; which, with the accompanying 

papers, was read, referred to the Committee on Appropriations, and 

ordered to be printed : 

To the Senate and House of Representatives: 

I transmit herewith a communication of the Secretary of the Interior, dated the 

16th instant, relative to the necessity for a deficiency appropriation for the pay- ment of salaries of clerks and laborers in the Patent Office during the presentfiscill ~~ I 

The subject is commended to the consideration of Congress. 

CHESTER A . .ARTHUR. 

EXECUTIVE MANSION, February 21, 1882. 

EVIDENCE IN PE4 SIO~ CASES. 

The SPEAKER also laid before the House the following letter from 

the President of the United States; which, with the accompanying 

papers, was read, referred to the Committee on Appropriations, and 

ordered to be printed: 

To the Senate and House of RepresenJ.atives : 

I transmit herewith for the consideration of Congress a communication from theSecretary: of the Interior, inclosing a copy of a communication from the Commissioner of Pensions, in which he recommends that more adequate provision be made 

for the payment of the expenses of obtaining evidence of the extent of the disability of those pensioners of the United States and applicants for pension who reside in 

foreign countries. 

CHESTER .A. ARTHUR. 

ExECUTIVE MANSIO~, February 21, 1882. 

ISAAC A. SYLVESTER. 

The SPEAKER also laid before the House the following letter, 

with accompanying papers, from the President of the United States; 

• 
• 

1386 OONGRESSIONAB RECORD- HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23r 

-which wa.s read, referred to the Committee on Appropriations, and 

·orderea to be printed : 

To the Senate and HOU8e of Bepruentati?Jes: 

I transmit herewith for the cunsideration of Congress a communication from the :Secretary of the Navy, with accompanying papers, asking, for reasons stated by .him that Congress may be requested to ma.Ke a. special appropriation for the pay- :men't of the claim of Isaac A. Sylvester against the Navy Department. CHESTER A. ARTHUR. EXEcUTIVE M&'\SION, February 21, 1882. 

NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES. 

The SPEAKER, by unanimous consent, laid before the House a !letter from William B. Rogers, president, transmitting a report of 

-the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences from November 

16, 1880, to the close of the year 1881; which was referred to the Committee on the Library, and ordered to be printed. 

LEAVE TO WITHDRAW PAPERS. 

By unanimous consent, leave to withdraw papers from the files of 

dihe House was ~anted to Mr. TOWNSHEI-1'1>, of lllinois, in the case of 

Isaac N. Willh1te. 

ORDER OF BUSIXESS. 

Mr. BURROWS, of Michigan. I demand the regular order. 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is the morning hour for the r.call of committees. 

Mr. CASWELL. With the inteutio:n ofproceeding with the con- sideration of the Post-Office appropriation bill, I move that the 

morning hour be dispensed with. · · The House diviaed; and there were-ayes 101, noes 34. 

So (two-thirds having voted in favor thereof) the morning hour was dispensed with. 

Mr. CASWELL. I~eld for a moment to the gen\leman from Vir-

..ginia, [Mr. WISE.] 

COLONIAL IDSTORY OF VIRGINIA. 

Mr. WISE, of Virginia. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to 

ubmit the following resolution from the Virginia Historical Society,_ .and ask its reference to the CoiBmittee on the Library, and that it 

be printed in the RECORD. 

There was no objection. The memorial is as follows: 

Rrcm10ND, VlRGlli'IA, Februa1'Y 14, 1882. 

MY DEAR SIR: I beg to communicate to you the following action of this society 

in a. meeting hel<l on the lOth instant: 

Resolvecl, 1, That the Virginia Historical Society respectfully petition the Congress of the United States to publish the manuscripts bearing upon the colonial history of Virginia. now belongin~ to the Congres ional Library, and to distril~ute the 

publications among the histoncal societies of the several States. 

Resolved, 2, That the Senators and Repre entatives from this Stat-e be respect- fully requested to present the foregoing resolution to Congress, and to urge appro- priate legislation in reference thereto. 

Resolved, 3, 'l'hat, the several St::tte historical societies in the Union be requested to nnit.e in this petition to Congress, and to instigate the co-operation of their Rep- ·resentatives in that body toward the accomplishment of the desirable measure .asked for. 

I beg to remain, my dear sir, yours, faithfully, (SEAL.] 

Hon. GEORGE D. WISE, 

United States House of Representatives. 

R. A. BROCK, 

Oon·esponding Secretary. 

POST-OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Mr. CASWELL. I move that the House resolve itself into Com-

;mittee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, for the further 

-consideration of the Post-Office appropriation bill. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The House accordingly resolved itself into Committee of the ·whole 

.House on the state of the Union, :Mr. CALKINS in the chair. · The CHAIRMAN. The House is now in Committee of the Whole 

.for the further consideration of the bill (H. R. No. 3548) making appropriations for the service of the Post-Office Department for the 

nscal year ending June 30, 1883, and for other purposes. 

Mr. illSCOCK. I suppo15e the first question is upon the point of ~rder made upon the amendment submitted by the gentleman from 

:Missouri, [Mr. BLAND.] 

The CHAIRMAN. The first question is upon the point of order 

made by the gentleman from Wisconsin on the amendment offered 

by the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. BLAND] as a substitute for the 

amendments submitted by the ~entleman from Indiana and the gentleman from Tennessee. The clerk will report the pending substitute. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

For inland transportation by star routes, $7,245,000 : Provided , That it shaJ.l not be lawful for any contractor hereafter to sublet his contra~t, but he shall be required to fulfill the same according to law. 

Mr. CASWELL. I think the substitute clearly changes existing 

law, a,nd does not in any sense retrench expenditures. It simply 

provides that the contractor shall in no instance sublet his contract. 

Mr. BLAND. The Chair will notice that the substitute does reduce 

expenditures by reclucin~ the total amount covered by the bill. It 

reduces it $5,000. The bill appropriates 77250,000; the substitute $7~5,000. 

.t'aragraph 3 of Rule XXlli provides as follows : 

Nor shall any provision in any such bill or amendment thereto changing existi.!lg law be in order, except such as, being germane to the subject-matter of the bill, 

shall retrench e.xJ!enditures by th.e reduction of the number and snla.ry of the Offi.. cers of the UnitOO. States, by the reduction of the compensation of Mly person paid out of the Treasury of the United States, or by the reduction of amounts of money covered by the bill. 

This substitute does reduce the amount of money covered by the 

bill, and consequently it is a provision that is in order. There can be no question but what it is germane to the proposition. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I suggest to my friend from Missouri [Mr. BLAND] 

that this substitute offered by him contains two substantive propositions. One does reduce expenditures. As regards the other, it ioes 

not appear on its face that it red11ces expenditures. 

Mr. BLAND. My answer to that. is that the substantive proposition that changes existing law will effect the proposed reduction of 

eJ..-penditure. The reduction of $5,000 is logically made on account of 

the other proposition which prevents the subletting. In other words, 

the logical supposition is that the amount covered by the bill can be 

reduced the s11.m of$5,000 on account of the sub equentprovision which 

prevents subletting. That :i.s the logical con truction of the whole 

substitute. It stands as one proposition, that the sum shall be re- duced by $5,000, and hereafter no contract shall be sublet. 

Why can this sum of $5,000 "be taken offY Why can the appropriation be reduced that amount Y Because of the subsequent part of the 

proposition that hereafter no contract shall be sublet. That is the 

logical construction of the whole proposition, and it does reduce the 

amount covered by the bill, and is therefore in order if germane; and 

that it is a-ermane will not be disputed. · Mr. RO:fhNSON, of Mas achusetts. I would like to reserve another 

point of order, to be submitted at the proper time. I do not desire 

to speak to that now pendino-. The point of order now pending is 

made against the whole sub titute, and I do not desire to speak in. 

support of it. 

The CHAIRMAN. The point of order pending is to the substitute 

offered by the gentleman from Missouri for the amendment offered by 

the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HOLMAN] as proposed to be amended 

by the gentleman from Tennessee, [Mr. ATKINS.] 

Mr. ROBINSON, of 1\fa.ssachusetts. But I desire n.t the proper time 

to make the point of order to the proposition in the substitute of the 

gentleman from :Missouri that it is new legislation, and I desire at 

the proper time to be heard upon that for two minutes. If the Chair 

desires it, I will make the point of order now. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair does not desire anything as to that, 

but he will say if any point of order is to be made against the proposed substitute now would be the proper time to mn.ke it. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Very well; I make it now, 

though I was of opinion but one point of order could be pending at a time. 

The point made is that the amendment offered by the gentleman 

from Missouri is not in order under the rule, because it is a change 

of existing law. Now, it seems to me the point is not well taken, 

because the gentleman has modified his amendment so that it reduces 

the amount covered by the bill by $5,000. He has taken $5,000 off 

the amount in the bill and attached a change of legislation to that, 

and therefore avoida in that way the point of order aa now made. Now I propose to make this point of order, which I think cannot 

be avoicl.ed. I make it against the "provision" in the gentleman's 

amendment, that it changes existing law and does not retreneh ex- penditure. I make the point of order in that way because tha.t is 

the language of the rule, and I a-sk the careful consideration of the 

Chair to it : 

Nor shall any provision in any such bill or amendment thereto changing exi t- ing law be in order. 

That is, no provision in a bill; no provision in an amendment. The 

rule does not say "no amendment," but "no provision in any sn.ch 

bill or amendment" shall be in order, &c. That is, the rule contemplates you may take out any part of the amendment and make your 

point against it. That is the reasonable construction of the rule. 

Now look at the gentleman's proposit.ion. He propo es to reduce 

the amount in the bill, which is 7,250JOOO, by $5,000. If he proposed 

to stop there, all1·ight. But he goes further, anrl to carry the change 

of existing law he reduces the amount for another purpose. And it 

is right the point of order shouJd be made and maint ained here, 

because the whole policy of the rule is to prevent substantive lewslation upon an appropriation bill unless that substantive legislat1un 

in itself retrenches expenditure. 

Mr. BLAND. Will the gentleman allow me-- . Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. In a moment. If the gentle- man from Missouri only wanted to cut off $5,000 from the amount he 

might offer au amendment for that plllrpose. But he does not stop 

there. He follows with the word "provided." That draws the line, 

and surely there is no better word to introd11ce a provision than the 

word "provided." 

Mr. BLAND. Let me state to the gentlemanMr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I ask the gentleman t.o bear 

with me for another moment. All the gentleman is after_, as it seems to me-if he says to the contrary I will hear him with pleasure-all 

h e is really after comes after the word " provided." He is not after a reduction of 5,000. If he is, there is a simple way of getting at 

that, but I know that is not what he is after . 1\Ir. BL.Al\TD. I desire to answer the gentleman from Massachusetts on that point. He says the word "provided" is in the aubatttute. 
1882. CONGR'ESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1387' 

The word ''and" might as well have been there. The 81lbstance of 

the substitute is that a reduction is made of $51000 and h~reafter no subletting shall be had. And why can the reauction be made f It 

is because of the provision of the subsequent part of the substitute 

that no subletting can be had. The reduction might be $100,000, and 

the reason for that might be the provision that no subletting should 

hereafter be had. The word ''provided" might be stricken out. The 

reduction by the amount of 5,000 is made; and it makes no differ- ence whether you follow that with the words "and hereafter" or the 

words "provided, hereafter." The word'' and" ma.y be substituted 

for the word "provided." The proposition stands as a whole, the 

reduction not being sepu.rated from the balance of the proposition. 

It all stands together as a proposition to reduce the amount, a11d the 

reduction follows as a consequence of preventing the sublettmg. 

That is the lo~ical construction of the amendment. And I may reduce 

the amount m the bill one or two or :five thousand (lollars, if that 

is held admissible under the rule. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. The question i , does the gentleman's proposition, that which he is really after-that change of 

existing law which he proposes-does that proposition save one 

dollar f 

Mr. BLAND. That is for the gentleman and myself to construe at our own convenience. I think it will save hundreds of thousands of 

dollars, and will prevent the conuption throughout this Department 

and the public service. My opinion is that if such had been the law 

heretofore we never would have heard about the corruptions of Brady 

and the carrying of political elections by funds stolen from the PostOffice Department. I say it will not only reduce expenditures, but 

will save 1nillion of money that has been used at every eleetion from 

parties connected "'ith this service. We want to break up that ring. 

That is the object of the amendment. It is not only in the line of 

retrenchment, but of reform, and is in order. 

Mr. CONVERSE. The gentleman from Missouri [M,r. BLAND] says 

that this amendment is in the interest of economy and for the purpo e of breaking up rings. I want to call the attention of members 

of this committee for one minute to that subject. What is the purpose of advertising at all in the letting of these contracts 'f It is to 

get up a competition among the bidders, so that the Government may 

be able to secure the performance of this service for the least possible money. Now, does anybody suppose that you can diminish the 

amount for which this service· can be performed by excluding bidders · Mr. BLAND. I beg the gentleman's pardon; it does not exclude a bidder in the world. 

Mr. CONVERSE. It does exclude bidders when you say that no Joan shall bid unless he can personally perform the service; that he 

shall not sublet the contract or allow anybodv else to do the work 

under the contract. Whenever you say that you exclude more than 

half of the bidders1\Ir. BLAND. I let in bidders who are now excluded by corruption. 

l\Ir. CONVERSE. There are none excluded by corruption. The 

law provides that each route shall be advertised, that each bid upon 

that route shall be separately made. And if the gentleman has any 

constituent who wants to bid on any single route he may put in his 

bid in pursuance of law, the bid will be sent to the office in Washington and be there considered, and if it be the lowest bid the law 

requires that the contract shall be let on that lowest bid, and there 

is no way of avoidmg it. But the gentleman by his amendment proposes to say that nobody shall bid except those in the locality who can personally perform the service. 

Mr. VANCE. Will thegentlemanpermitmeto ask him a question Y 

Mr. CONVERSE. Certainly. 

l\1r. VANCE. Which is the most important and desirable : to have 

the contract made at the lowest rate and have the mail service all over the country in confusion and the mails not delivered properly, or to have the mails properly carried and delivered in the interest of 

the people! 

Mr. CONVERSE. Certainly the mails should be carried in the 

intere t of the people. But it is not true that these sublet contracts are not performed, because the Government holds the original bidder re ponsible and r etains the original security for the performance of 

the contract; besides heavy fines and penalties are imposed by the 

law as it now stands for failure to carry the mails in pursuance of 

the contract. 

Now, if a man obtains a contract on his lowest bid and chooses to 

sublet it to another party, what business is it of the Government so long as the work is done f We want to invite all bidders, those who 

think they can make money out of it by subletting it and those who 

want to do it themselves; and whoever bids the lowest for a particular contract on a particular route, let Lim have H. 

Whenever the Government reaches the point that it proposes to 

exclude all bidders except those who can personally perform the serv- ice, then it will exclude more than half the bidders not only in mail 

conh·acts but in all other contracts in which the Government is intere ted. 

1\Ir. l\1ANNING. Where is the authority of the gentleman for saying that this amendment prevents the subletting of contracts Y 

Mr. CONVERSE. I find it in its own provisions. 

Mr. MANNING. It does not prevent the subletting; it proposes 

to prevent the speculation. It prevents the making of contracts 

with parties who have not a dollar invested, and who do not give one moment of time and labor upon it. 

Mr. CONVERSE It does no such thing. 

Mr. V ALEN'.fiNE. I can answer that question. 

Mr. CONVERSE. I will answer the inquiry of the gentleman. 

The proposition is that if a contractor sublets his contract, then the 

Government shall repudiate the original contract and make another 

contract with the person to 'fhom the original ha~ been sublet. 

1\fr. MANNING. Not so; only where the contract has been su'blet 

for a smaller amount. 

Mr. CONVERSE. Certainly; where it h~s been sublet for a smaller 

amount. But who ever heard that a contract was repudiated be- cause it was sublet for a smaller priceY Yon may repudiate a con- tract for some fault or fraud on the part of the contractor. But now you propose to repudiate a contract because somebody may make a dollar out of it. It is neither jru.t nor honest nor economic nor con- stitutional nor anything else. 

l\1r. ATKINS. Will the gentleman pertnit me to ask him a question Y 

Mr. CONVERSE. Certainly. 

Mr. UPSON. I rise to a point of order. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. UPSON. Is this debate in order upon the merits of the proposition Y 

The CHAIRMAN. The debate should be confined to the point of 

order. 

Mr. ATKINS. I would a.sk the gentleman from Ohio if under the 

law the Postmaster-General is not now authorized to annul any con- tract at any time Y 

Mr. CONVERSE. Certainly. 

l\1r. ATKINS. Then where is there any vested right about it Y 

Mr. CONVERSE. These gentlemen propose to repudiate a contract 

because somebody may make a dollar out of it. Such a thing has never before been heard of. I say that the Government ought to invite all bidders, black and white, rich and poor, male and female, 

and whoever bids the lowest let him receive the contract and be held 

responsible under that contract and his bond. That is the true theory 

of this whole matter, and the policy which has been adopted by the 

Government from the beginning of the mail service. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. SPRINGER. Will the Chair be kind enough to state the proposition now pending before the committee 'f 

The CHAIRMAN. Upon the substitute offered by the gentleman 

frop1 Missouri [Mr. BLAND] points of order have been made by the 

gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. CASWELL] and the gentleman from 

Massachusetts, [Mr. ROBINSON.] The point a~ made by the gentle- man from Wisconsin is that the proposition changes existing law 

and does not retrench expenditures. The gentleman from Ma~sachusetts makes the further point that under the rule no provision is in 

order upon a general appropriation bill unless the provision itself 

retrenches expenditures, and that where an amendment is offered 

containing two or more substantive propositions a point of order will 

lie against either of them that changes existing law and does not 

upon it face retrench expenditures. 

l\1r. WASHBURN. Can we not have that substitute reported Y 

The CHAIRMAN. It will be reported again before the decision is 

made. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Is the Chair ready to decide Y 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is ready to decide the question, but 

is willino- to hear the gentleman from Illinois, [Mr. SPRINGER.] 

1t1r. SPRINGER. I desire to discuss not the point of order, bnt 

the merits of the proposition, if the point of order should be over- ruled. 

The CHAIRMA.i.'{. Before deciding the point of order, the Chair 

will direct the Clerk to read the substitute offered by the gentleman 

from Missouri. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

For inland transportation by star routes $7~245,000: Provided, That it shall not• be lawful for any contractor hereafter t.o sublet his contract, but he shall be re- quired to fulfill the same according to law. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will state that this is the :first time, so far as he has been able to learn, that the precise point of order 

made by the gentleman fi·om Massachusetts has been made. Points 

of order going to the entire amendment have been made in the last 

Congress and in the present during the consideration of this bill, 

but the precise point now mised by the gentleman from Massachusetts has never before been made under the rule since it was amended. 

When the Chair decided a point of order raised upon an amendment reducin~ the amount covered by this bill an appeal was taken 

from the dec1sion, as members will recollect, upon the point that 

where the amount was reduced for the purpose simply of attaching 

to the reduction a new substantive proposition not neces arily con- nected with it, it was not within the purview of the rule. The Chair~ upon the point as then presented, maintained the same doctrine neld by the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. CARLISLE] and 

others when occupying the chair in Committee of the Whole in the 

last Congress. Tb~ Chair now holds that a point of order against a substantive 

provision which upon its face has no relation to the amount which 

is reduced in another substantive proposition is well taken. In 

this case the amendment embraces two propositions. One is to reduce 
1388 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY. 23, 

the amount covered by the bill. To that substantive proposition a. point of order will not lie because it is within the rule. But as the 

second proposition-that "it shall not be lawful for any contractor 

hereafter to sublet his contra.ct, but he shall be required to fulfill the same according to law "-is not a necessary part of the reduction of the 

amount covered by the bill, a point of order will lie against it. The 

Chair holds that under the rule a point of order may be made against 

any substantive provision not directly connected with the amount 

coverecl by the bill ; and thatMr. BLAND. I desire to ask whether the Chair assumes that the 

author of this proposition necessarily han in his mind two separate 

propositions--

The CHAIRMAN. No, sir. 

:Mr. BLAND. How can the Chair assume that the provision in 

rega.rd to the subletting of contracts will not produce an economy 

authorizing a reduction of the amount of the hill¥ How can the 

Chair say that I had not the reduction in my mind as a necessary 

consequence of the provision¥ 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair does not assume anything in the 

decision of this point of order, but simply plants himself upon the 

proposition which has been recognized, so far as he knows, by all his 

predecessors in the chair, that any substantive proposition which, 

upon its face, reduces appropriations in any one of the three ways 

named in the rule a in order; and the Chair holds now and has held 

that where there is a proposition requiring the Postmaster-General 

to cancel contracts where they are being sublet for a less price, that 

being upon its face a reduction of expenditures1 would be in order. 

:Mr. BLAND. With all deference to the ChaiT, I wish to say that 

unless the reduction were contemplated as the effect of the provision 

under consideration there could be no meanin~ in the reduction of 

the sum appropriated; without this the reduct10n of the amount to 

the extent of $5,000 would be meaningless. 

The CHAIRMAN. ·The Chair appreciates the point made by the 

gentleman; but as the gentleman will see the second proposition 

that "it shall not be lawful for any contractor to sublet his con- tract, but he shall be required to fulfill the same according to law," 

does not upon its face show that public expenditures would be reduced 

by the adoption of the provision; and bein~ a substantive proposition it is clearly liable under the rule to t.he point of order. The 

Chair, therefore, sustains the point raised by the gentleman from 

Massachusetts upon that provision of the amendment. 

1\Ir. UPSON. I wish to make a parliamentary inquiry. Does this 

point of order lie against the amendment of the gentleman from Indiana, [Mr. HOLMAN f] 

The CHAIRMAN. The point of order made against the amendment of the gentleman from Indiana was overruled on the day before 

yesterday. Mr. HOLMAN addressed the Chair. 

The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from India.na. desire to 

speak to the remaining portion of the paragraph f 

:Mr. HOLMAN. Yes, sir; I wish to say that I have examined the 

amendment offered by the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. ATKINS] 

to the amendment which I submitted on the day before yesterday; 

and inasmuch as the gentleman's proposition is in perfect harmony 

with my amendment, I accept it as a modification. I will state, however, that it seems to me impossible for a.ny lawyer to examine the 

original proposition Without giving it exactly the same interpretation that it will have with the words proposed to be added upon the 

motion -of the gentleman from Tennessee. In other words, under the 

provision which I offered the contract with the original contractor 

cannot be canceled until a new contract has been made; and a new contract cannot be made with a sub-contractor until the proper bond 

has been executed. So the proposition of the gentleman from Ten- nessee does not eithe:r increase or diminish, but perhaps it makes it 

clear. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Indiana states he accepts 

ijhe amendment of the gentleman from Tennessee [~ ATKINS] as a modification of his own. The Clerk will now report his amendment as modified. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

Provided, however, That whenever any contra{)tor shall sublet his contract for 

the transportation of mails on any roate for a less sum than he contracted to per· form the service for, the Postmaster-General rna.y declare the original contract at an end, and enter into a. contract with the sub-contractor without advertisement to perform the service on the terms on which he has agreed with such original con- tractor to perform the same. -

The CHAIRMAN. To which the amendment of the gentleman from 

Tenne ee has been added as a modification, which the Clerk will read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Provided, That the sub-contractor shall enter a. good and sufficient bond~ and 

that the original contra{) tor shall not be released from his contract until a goon and 

sufficient bond ha-s been made by the sub-contractor. 

The CHAIR~1AN. For which the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. 

BLAND] offered a substitute, of which the first clause still remains 

before the committee. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Mr. Chairman, I desire to say a word to t.he com- mittee against legislation of this sort on an appropriation bill. We 

han a little experience the other day, when an amendment was offered to the bill striking out the clause with reference to the Saint 

J .. ouis bridge; and I warn members of this committee that if we put 

on this bill legislation of this character which has been carefully 

matured in committee we are very likely to cause confusion in the 

postal laws of the United States. 

Having said this much on that point, I desire now to be heard for a moment on the merits of the amendment, and to state one or two 

objections which are obvious to me. Under existing contracts, a.ll 

in force at the present time, there is a provision that whenever the 

Government cancels a contract it forfeits to the contractor a month's 

pay. Will any gentleman tell me, in the event Conetress impo es it 

upon the Department to cancel contracts made with the original con- tractors, this month's pay will not be forfeited under the terms of 

those contracts which have been entered into for carrying the mails 7 

Another objection to this amendment, and that objection is rather 

in the nature of pointing out that it. will be of no effect whatever, 

and on this point I ask the close attention of every member of this 

committee. The moment this amendment is adopted the contractor 

will make a sub-contract with a friend, a partner of his perhaps, for a larger price, or for the same price which the Government undertook 

to pay him. The Department does not recognize sub-contractors 

under contractors, and the moment this contract has been assigned, 

the moment it hacS been sublet for a higher or for the same price, the 

contractor will be outside of the provisions of this proposed law. 

Gentlemen may tell me they can remedy this defect here in this 

committee. I say, in answer to that, here, in this Committee of the 

Whole on the state of the Union, is no place to mature provisions of a kind which may be efficient and have the effect desired. They 

should be kept off of appropriation bills. Provisions of this kind 

should be sent to the appropriate committees, there matured and 

brought in so a to be consistent with existing law, and where the 

purpose is sought to be gained which should be accomplished that 

purpose may be attained. 

One word further in opposition ; and I commend to this House the 

remarks of the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. CONVERSE] on this question. Any legislation adopted by this House which has the effect to 

limit bidding, to circumscribe biddin~, yes, Mr. Chairman, which 

ha-s the effect to strike down the professional bidders, is against econ- omy, and will in my judgment cost this Government at least a million and a half to two millions of dollars. And in this connection I 

will send to the Clerk's desk and ask to have read a communication 

which I have received from the Postmaster-General. 

The CHAIR:rt1AN. The gentleman's tin1e has expired. 

Mr. BLAND. I withdraw the amendment I offered. 

Mr. CANNON. I will now take the floor and yield my time to the 

gentleman from New York, [Mr. HISCOCK,] in order that he ma.y con- clude his remarks. 

Mr. IDSCOCK. I ask t.he Clerk to read the document which I 

have sent up. 

The Clerk read a-s follows : POST-OFFICE DEPARTMENT, 

Washington, D. 0., February 23, 1882. 

Sm : In compliance with your reque t of yesterday for information touching the number of contracts awarded by this Department to those persons commonly designated as " local " and " professional " b1dders for mail service, and the percentage of sub-contracts filed, I have the honor to inform ;you that about 85 per cent. of the awards of contracts at each mail-letting are made to "professional" bidders, whose proposals. permit me to add, are about 20 per cent. lower in price than those of " local" bidders. Sub-contracts are filed in this Department upon about 85 per cent. of the routes awarded to " professional" contractors. Respecting the amendment of the honorable member from Indiana (Mr. HOLMAN] to the bill (H. R. No. 3548) relative to sub-contracts, to which you directed 

my attention, I suggest that it might be urged, among the other objections pre- sented in the House, that it does not prevent a contractor from subletting his contract to a. partner in interest at the full conkact pay, or a. larger amount, and 

filing such sub-contract in this Department. 'l.'he e.ftect of such action by a. con- tractor would be to exclude the person who performs mail service from the benefits 

of the sub-contract law, compelling him, as a. carrier or employe, to look to the 

sub-contractor for his compensation. The subject of sub-eontract is receiving the special attention of this Department with the Vlew of presenting suggestions toward further legislation, in response to a. recent resolution of the House of Representatives. Very respectfully, 

Ron. FRANK HISCOCK, 

T. 0. HOWE, Post:rnaster-General. 

Ohairman Oommitue on Appropriations, HOUile of Representatives. 

N OTE.-.A.bout 90 per cent. of the amount appropriated is paid to the professional bidders, because nearly aJl the large routes are controlled by them. 

H. D. LYMAN, 

Acting Second Assistant Postmaster-General. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I a-sk the gentleman from New York to indulge me a moment, and before proceeding, I would like to have the next 

to the last clause read again. 

Mr. IDSCOCK. I do not wish this to be taken out of my time. 

Now, Mr. Chairman, it appears by this communication which I have 

presented from the Department professional bidding ha-s precisely 

this effect: it makes competition with the lowest bidders, and the 

records of the Post-Office Department exhibit the startling fact that 

they haveatleast90 per cent. of all the star routes in the United 

States and their bids are 20 per cent. less than those Qf the local bidders. 

I say, Mr. Chairman, to gentlemen on this floor, that while we are entirely willing, and it may be entirely proper, that local bidders 

shall be fostered, it is not in the interest of economy they shall be 

left without this formidable competition which has the effect to pnll 

down these rates 20 per cent. And this letter which I have presented here brings to us the assurance from the Department that wo 
1882 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1389 -----·---------------------,--------------------------=-

will add to the cost of the star-route service of the United States at 

least one million and a half of dollars if we adopt the amendment 

oft'ered by the gentlemanfrom Indiana, [Mr. HOLMA...'f.] 

Let me call the attention of the committee to the fact that the Department is now busily engaged in formulating provisions which are deemecl essential and proper to be added to the present pos~al laws 

of the cmmtry. I ask this committee, then, t.o wait until thoso provisions come in here, and when they do, we can then make such 

amendment as in our jud!mlent may seem suitable. 

Mr. MAGINNIS. Has the gentleman from New York any idea. from 

his knowledge of the rules controlling this House those suggestions can become the law unless they pass in this Post-Office approprin.-. 

tion bill¥ 

[Her e the hammer fell.] 

Mr. HOLMAN. Mr. Chairman, I understand the gentlema.n from 

New York to concede that this proposition as it now sta.nds before 

the committee is only subject to objection to the extent mentioned 

by him, and I think the main point made by him is that under the 

present law the contractor who sublets his contract and whose con- tract is afterwards rescinded or annulled by the Department is entitled to one month's additional pay. Now, it is conceded, as I understand it, that if the contra.ct is rescinded or annulled the contracto'l' 

is en ti tied to one month's pay, and this he is enti tied tow hen ever the 

Government cancels the contract. The present law ~ives the Postmaster-General discretion in this matter, to be exermsed, of course, 

I take t.o be the meaning of the law, wherever the public interests are to be promoted; and, under that discretion, he is authorized to 

annul the old and let and accept the new contract at a lower rate, or on the basis of the contract between the old contractor and the 

sub-contractor. 

Now, the gentleman from New York must see that inasmuch 'l.S the 

power now exists to annul the contract, and the power now exists to 

pay the contractor whose contract is canceled one month's additional 

pay, that the tendency of this proposition now submitted is not in 

any manner to diminish fair competition for these mail-route con- tracts; so that I cannot see, under the law as it now exists, where 

any variance would come in as far as the competition is concerned. 

Ancl of course no Postmaster-General, it is presumed, would cancel an original contract and enter into a new contract with the sub-contractor without taking the fact into account that on a four-years con- tract, for instanco, there would manifestly be a saving to the Government; then, and not until then, when that fact is shown that there 

would be a saving to the Government, would he be presumed to make a contract with tne sub-contractor at the lower rate. 

So, Mr. Speaker, this provision, suggested by the gentleman from 

New York, is a little more satisfactory than I thought, if it only 

tends to break up in any manner, and I hope it will, tlte power of the 

ring to which the gentleman has referred. Judging from my own section of country the effect of this body or ring of bidders at the 

capital is to destroy all fair and healthy competition. It discourages men from bidding, because the men who perform the service, 

who do the labor, who are the real responsible men, are deterred 

from applying for contracts because they are not able to come in 

competition with them. The opinion prevails among them that this 

ring of monopolists forms a close corporation, who have by some means or other secured absolute cont.rol of the letting of contracts through 

the Department. Now it is to break that up; it is to secure the con- tracts to the bo'nafide bidders, to secure to the men who do the work an opport-unity to enter into contracts, to engender a fair competition among responsible parties for the performance of the work, 

that I advocate this proposition. It has been stated, sir, that 85 per 

cent. of the contracts are let to professional bidders, to straw men, as my friend from New York calls them-straw men and ring men- who are not themselves responsible for the work, while the honest 

bidders for the contracts are excluded. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. VALENTINE. :Mr. Chairman, I desire to be heard for a mo- ment upon this substitute. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will first recognize the gentleman 

from North Carolina to submit an amendment. 

Mr. VALENTINE. I was taken oft' the floor before for an amendment. 

Mr. VANCE. I make the point of order that the gentleman from 

Nebraska has already had the floor once pon this proposition. 

Mr. VALENTINE. I yielded then for an amendment before I had 

concluded. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will preserve the rights of the gentleman from Nebraska. The Clerk will report the amendment of the 

gentleman from No.rth Carolina, after which the Chair will recognize the gentleman from Nebraska. 

The Clerk read u.s follows : 

Provided further, That when a contract is declared void on account of its having been sublet the contractors shall not be entitled to one month's 6A"tra pay, as pro- vided by the statute. · 

Mr. V .!LENTINE. This amendment, Ml·. Chairman, as I understand from the reading of it, simply provides that hereafter, should 

this provision become a law, the Postmaster-General would not be 

permitted to pay, as the law now allows, one month's extra compensation to the contractor whose contract has been annulled. On 

Tuesday last I was addressingthe committee in opposition to the 

amendment of the gentleman from Indiana, [Mr. HOLMAN,] believing 

it to be an amendment that would result in no practical good to the 

Government, when the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. ATKINS] 

oflered his amendment to the amendment, which seemed to me at 

that time to obviate the objection to the amendment of the gentle- m from Incliana. But upon a closer examination of the two in con- nection with each other I am still of the opinion that the proposition of the gentleman from Indiana as modified by the amendment 

of the gentleman from Tennessee is unwise, and ought not to be 

adopted by this committee. 

I have no doubt, l\Ir. Chairman, that every ~entleman who spoke 

in favor of that amendment honestly believed 1t to be for the benefit 

of the Government and for the protection of the service. If I could 

agree with them in that belief I should support the proposition; 

but I cannot. I think all who examine this matter closer will admit 

that this proposition if it becomes a law does away practically with 

the law now in force which allows a contractor to sublet his con- tract. If any contractor has entered into a contract by which he 

could make a single dollar he would be less likely to sublet it to a contractor for a less amount, if he knew that he was liable to a forfeiture of the contract. 

Now, suppose we pass this law; what effect will it have Y There 

will be no more sub-contracting on these star routes, but the con- tr:wt'Or who has taken the contract, say at $2,000 per annum, to carry 

the ma.il, say from A to Bin the St.ate of Nebra.ska, goes to one of 

my constituents and says, "I hire you to carry this mail," say for 

$1,200 per year. That, the gentleman says, would be an evasion. 

It would not. You cannot prevent a man who takes a contract for 

carrying the mail on a particular route from hiring another to carry 

it in his name and for him; Under the present law a sub-contractor 

already has the right to file his sub-contract and draw his pay directly 

from the Post-Office Department. They pay him. The sub-contractor is protected under the law at present. 

Mr. COBB. I wish to say to the gentleman the Department do~· 

not know the sub-contractor at all. It does not communicate with 

him. 

Mr. CASWELL. Under the law of 187t! t:ue· sub-contractor files his 

contract and is protected. 

Mr. VALENTINE. I cannot proceed with all this confusion. 

The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Nebraska yield for 

interruptions f 

Mr. VALENTINE. I do not. I reply to the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. COBB] that he is cert11.inly mistaken in his statement. 

Under the present law the sub-contractor files his sub-contract with 

the Post Office Department, or with the Sixth Auditor, I am not cer- tain which; and he is protected to the amount of his sub-contract 

and they pay him directly. 

Now, then, adopt this amendmel}.t and what is the effect on your 

constituents and mine who actuu.~.r perform this work for the professional contractor f Why, sir, the contractors would simply go out 

and hire them to perform it. They would hire them to carry these 

mails and there would be no protection under the law to t.hese constituents of yours and mine who perform the service, but they would be 

wholly thrown at the mercy of these professional contractors. 

I would like to call attention to the law. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

The CHAIRMAN. The amendment offered by the gentleman from 

North Carolina [Mr. VANCE] will again be read, ~fter whlch the 

Chair will recognize the gentleman from North Carolina in support 

of the amendment. 

The amendment was again read. 

Mr. VANCE. I wish to call the attention of the committee to the 

sta.te of affairs in the country in regard to this subletting of con- tracts. I do not deny that my object is to prevent the practice of 

subletting the carrying of the United States m:tils. The very thing 

the gentleman from New York [Mr. HISCOCK] refers to, this bidding for carrying the mails, is a speculation which has grown up, 

and which I think has wrought a great deal of damage in the coun- try. The fact is, Mr. Chairman, that the impression has gone all over this land that a ring has grown up in and around this capital 

and in other parts ofthe country, who take the contracts for carrying the mails of the United States and never themselves personally 

do carry the mails. What has been the effect, sir f I have now letters from different parts of my State and from different parts of other 

States, complaining that the people have not received their mails, 

in some instances for six weeks. I know in one case, sir., two daily 

mails in my section of the country were bid off by men in the State 

of Iowa who never have seen the country where these mails have to 

be carried and have no interest in it. The routes were bid for as a matter of speculation. The sub-contractors grew tired and threw 

up the contracts and the mails were stopped. 

I think it is time that this state of affairs should be put a stop to. 

'Vhat do gentlemen most desire¥ To have the mails bid off at a low 

price by speculators, by a ring, then to have the contracts relet and 

many times sublet, sometimes four or five times over, till at last a man is seleoted to carry the mail who is not able to do it, who is not able 

to provide the stock.! the pay not being sufficient. I think, sir, this 

great Government ot onrsisableto payfo.rcarryingthe United States 

mails, and to pay a fair price for having the mails sent all over the 

land ; and I think, sir, it is in the interest of the people and it is in 
1390 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

the main in the interest of economy to break up this source of cor- ruption, this bu~iness of letting the mails throughout the country. 

I think it is incumbent upon the Government to encourage the citi- zens to carry the mails and to give them a fair opportunity. They are not here in person; they have no opportunity of knowing what 

iB done in cases where clerks may be corrupt. I do not say that they 

are; still it may be that the clerks may be corrupt, and may give intimations to these sub-contractors, while people in the country have 

not that opportunity of getting information. 

I say, Mr. Chairman, the main point is to have the mail carried 

with speed, with safety, and with efficiency, so that the ·people may 

have their mails and may receive their newspapers. One man wrote 

to me lately that he hardly knew whether Congress had assembled or not, because tke mails had been so long in reaching his neighborhood. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

:Mr. BELFORD rose. The CHAIRMAN. Debate on the p1·o fonna amendment is exhausted. 

Mr. VALENTINE. I withdraw it. 

Mr. BLACK. I desire to offer an amendment. 

The CHAIRMAN. · Amendments are not now in order except in the 

form of a substitute. 

:Mr. UPSON. I desire to o:fl'er a substitute. 

Mr. BLACK. I desire to offer an amendment to the amendment 

of the gentleman from Indiana, [Mr. HOLMAN.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Two amendments are already pending. 

Mr. BLAND. I desire to ask the Chair whether I have the right 

to withdraw the amendment I have offered. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair understands the substitute of the 

gentlema:n from Missouri [Mr. BLAND] has already been withdrawn. 

Mr. UPSON. I desire to offer a substitute repeating the amendment offered by the gentleman from Indiana and the amendment 

thereto offered by the gentleman from Tennessee, and incorporating 

between them what I now send to the de.sk; and I desire to be heard on the substitute. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Colorado [.Mr. BELFORD] 

is recognized for debate, but suspends to have the substitute reported 

which is offered by the ~entleman from Texas, [Mr. UPSON.] The 

right of the gentleman from Texas to be heard is reserved. 

Mr. UPSON. Let the Clerk read what I propose to in ert between the amendments already pending. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

Or, if the sum agreed upon to perform said service by the sub-contractor shall be 

deemed. inadequate compensation for the service to be rendered, the Postmaster· 

General may in his discretion enter into a contract, -..vithout advertisement, with 

the sub-contractor, or any other person, to perform said service during the term of, 

a.:1d at any sum less than that fiXed in, said original contract. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I desire to reserve all points of ot der on the substitute. 

Mr. BELFORD. I will, Mr. Chairman, favor any legislation that 

looks to preventing an original contractor from subletting his con- tract. For the last five years the people of my State have endured 

great abuses under the law as it exists at present. . There is in this city a ring of mail contradors who seem to have the 

preference in regard to the transportation of the mails of this country. 

They secure the original contracts and, so far as the routes pertaining 

to the State of Colorado are concerned, they sublet them to persons 

iR that State. Those sub-contractors cancarrythemailsveryreadily 

and profitably in the summer time, but during the winter, when the snows are deep, in a great many instances, they would be forced to 

carry the mails across the main ridges on snow-shoes; and on account 

of the inadequacy of the compensation they receive they often refuse 

to carry the mails during the winter season. The original contractors are somewhere in theEast, and forweeks and weekseverywinterthe 

miners of the San Juan country and in the southern portion of my 

State are absolutely deprived of all mail facilities. 

Now, it does our people very little good to forfeit the contract which 

is in the hands of the original contractor. My idea is to prohibit the 

whole system of subletting the carrying of the mail, and give the 

people who reside in Colorado an opportunity to make contracts 

directly with the Government of the United States for the transportation of the mails in that State, instead of having those contracts made 

with persons of the ring that dominates the Post-Office Department 

in this city. 

Mr. CANNON. Have not your people now the privilege of bidding' 

Mr. BELFORD. They haveinacertain way, but it is a sham and a humbug, for the ring here seems to have some means of acquiring 

information so that they can underbid, and they "do underbid, every 

honest bid which is put in the Department by the people who live in 

these Western .States and Territories. 

I say we are here to legislate for the benefit of the people to whom 

we desire to send these mails. I shall vote for any provision which 

will deprive these contractors of the power of withholding ft·om the 

:people, at least of my State, the benefits of mail facilities for which we appropriate so much money at every session of Congress. 

Mr. BLACKBURN. I cannot say in :five minutes all that I desire 

to say to the committee on this subject, but I will ask their indulgence to suggest to their common sense and intelligence the absolute · n.ecessity of som@ legislation which will look in the direction at least 

ofthe amendment offered by the gentlemanft·omindiana, [Ur. HoLMAN.] That the least thoroughly, cheap, honest, and efficient system 

of mail service is that attained under the law as it stand.s to-day I 

deem it no gentleman will question or deny. I need not refer to the 

contest had in this House during the last session of Con!ITess, when 

I, as the chairman of a committee of investigation charge:fwith looking into the conduct of the star service of the country, and those 

associated with me sought to point out to Congress the abuses that 

needed correction. 

I do not undertake to say that those abuses were altogether the 

fault of the law. On the contrary, I believed, and those who were with me in that service believed, and the Committee on Appropriations unanimously concluded and the Congress of the United States 

concluded that there was a gross abuse of power on the paxt of the 

late Second A sistant Postmaster-General. 

But that was not all of it. The system itself is faulty. We had 

in that investi~ation developed the fact that there was then in existence, as there IS to-day, a riNg of bidders, in whiGh you might find ~me man h<?lding more t han five h~dred star-route contract , carryrng the mails probably on not one srngle one of aU the routes he bid 

off, receiving an annual income reaching a princely sum from this 

process of subletting contracts, failing, ii you please, on one route 

and drawing all the profits from all the other routes. 

That investigation disclo ed the fact that the Post-Office Department was in the habit of recognizing on its books the sub-contractor, 

and yet holding him responsible in nothing for a failure to peeform 

his contract. They would practically displace the origir,talcon tractor; 

they do it to-day, and claim the warrant of law for it. 

They displace the original contractor without accepting the subcontnwtor, as in the case of John .A.. Walsh of this city; and when he stood on the books ofthatDepartmentadefaulteruponmorethan one of his contracts, by reason of a failure to perform the service, ho was not made responsible in the matter of dockage of pay upon any 

other contract. 

Now, sir, this ought to be done: if Mr. Boone, for instance, who can bid off more thau five hundred contracts, as he did under the 

late administration of :Mr. Brady, shall fail upon one or more, then 

he should be required .to surrender them all. No man should be permitted to go into this ring of thieves, for such it is proper to denominate them, take five hundred or a thousand contracts, sift out those 

that are profitable, forfeit the others to the prejudice of the Government, and then reap the benefits from this illiberal, unfair, and thieving process of" culling." 

I believe that the amendment of the gentleman ft·om Indiana [Mr. 

HoLMAN] is right. This Government is able to pay a fair and just 

compensation for the transportion of its mails and the performance of 

that service. I do not believe that it promotes either honesty or fair 

dealing or efficiency of service to allow a coterie of men, whose advantages neither I nor any man on this floor can know, to secure by 

wholesale the contract mail service of the countryin section which 

they have never visited, to which they never intend to go, and in the 

performance of a ervice to which they do not propose to give attention . 

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman ha.s expired. 

11-fr. HATCH obtained the :floor and yielded his time to :Mr. BLACK- BUR..~. 

Mr. BLACKBURN. I thank the gentleman from :Missouri [:Mr. 

HATCH] for his kindness. Now, Mr. Chairman, this is not a matter into which politics can enter at all. I address myselfto the calmest 

judgment of gentlemen on both sides of this House. I ask whether 

they are not willing to admit that there is something faulty in the 

existing state of thing:s, and that some remedy is needed 7 It will 

not be denied. I believe that some measure should be devised either 

by the Post-Office Department or by the wisdom of Congress to put a check to a system which, though warranted in law, enables a, co- terie of men, with their regularly salaried attorneys and advocates 

here at your national capital, to bid for contracts by the hundred, 

if not by the thousand, to sublet them in every direction, to forfeit 

whichever of them may prove to be unprofit..<tble, and yet hold to those 

which pay them largely, leaving the Government to bear the burden 

and make up the deficiency. This is not only possible, but the investigation into the star service in the la-st Congress proves that it 

is a matter of daily occurrence; it happens all the time. It is "all 

gain and no loss" for the contractors; it is all "loss and no gain" for 

the Government. • Gentlemen may say, as the ~entleman from New York has said, 

that it will increase the expenct.itures for the mail service if were- fuse to allow the contractor to sublet the service he contracts for. 

I do not believe, in the first place, that such will be the effect; but, as the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. ATKINS] suggests to me, such 

an effect if it happen will be of temporary duration, and the Government will be the gainer in the end. 

As a general proposition, sir, that law-maker is the nearest right who seeks to make the legislation of the country honest. The system of star-route conii:racts as carried on to-day is not an honest 

system; thieves profit by it and the honest Government pays the penalty. The evils of this system should be corrected, and if the amendment of the gentleman from Indiana does not do this let us devise a measure that will. I do not believe that any man who takes a con-
1882. ·coNGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1391 

tract from t.he Government to render it specific service should ever be released from that contract until its execution has been fully 

met. 

I do not believe that the Government will be the loser by the legislation now proposed. I would rather see the mails-of Kansas car- ried, after competitive bidding, upon due a-dvertisement, by local 

contractors than to see this service pass into the hands of a stockjobber here in the cityofWashington, who never crossed the limits 

of that State in all his life and never purposes to do so. That this 

system results in individual benefit I doubt not; that it results in 

general disadvantage I am sure. I believe that the amendment 

offered by the gentleman from Indiana, as modified by the gentleman 

from Tennessee, will, in a great measure, meet the difficulties that we encounter, though I doubt whether this proposition goes far 

enough. I am sorry that the chairman of the Committee on Appropriations, the gentleman from New York, seems, to me at least, to 

have changed his opinion since last Tuesday, when, a.s the REcoRD 

shows, he seemed to accept the amendment of the gentleman from 

Tennes ee as driftin~ in the right direction. • I insist that there 1s an absolute necessity for some limitation upon 

this matter of star-service contracts. This House, if it refuses to 

put a limitation upon it, stands committed as the advocate and 

defender of all the abuses that have grown up under it. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair understands that the pro forma amendment of the gentleman from Celorado [Mr. BELFORD] is withdrawn. 

The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from 

Texas [Mr. UPSON] as a substitute. 

Mr. UPSON. Mr. Chairman, I fully concur with the eloquent and 

very able remarks of the gentleman from Kentucky, [Mr. BLACKBURN,] and I may not be able to add anything to what he has so well said. In explanation of my reason for offering this amendment 

I will say that while I approve in general the amendment of the gentleman from Indiana as well as that of the gentleman from Tennessee, I do not approve the provision requiring that the contract when 

let to a sub-contractor shall be let at the same price at which the 

sub-contractor agreed to render the service in his contract with the 

original contractor. I venture to say that in nine cases out of ten 

the sub-contractor on mail routes agrees to render the service for a less sum than he can possibly in fairne s perform it. Hence my 

amendment allows the Postmaster-General in his discretion to enter 

into a contract with the sub-contractor or with any other person at a sum less than the amount of the original contract, although it may 

be more than the sum agreed upon between the original contractor 

and the sub-contractor, provided the Postmaster-General in his judgment believes that the sub-contract has been let at a sum less than 

that at which the service can fairly be rendered . . 

I fav~red the amendment offered by the gentleman from Missouri 

[Mr. BLAND] as it would have accomplished directly, without circumlocution, what the amendment of the gent]eman from Indiana 

[1\fr. HOUIA1~] will effect indirectly, name1y, the stoppage of the 

cqrrupt system of subletting star-mail contract·. 

It will partially, if not effectually, clo e that Pandora's box of 

fruitful evils which have encircled, permeated, and infested the PostOffice Department, bywhiQh the public Treasury has been plundered 

and the people deprived of needed, reliable, and an efficient mail 

service, and which have brought that branch of the Government, 

the Post-Office Department, into world-wide disgrace. That dangerous box is still open, giving forth its many evils to wrong and curse the people. Let us nail down and rivet its lid, spike its sides 

and ends, and bolt its bottom securely and lastingly by an absolute 

prohibition of the snbletting of mail contracts. 

This amendment is in the line of the bill I had the honor of introducing in the House on the 12th of January, 1860, durin(J' the Fortysixth Congress, and which I introduced on the 19th of December, 

1881, bnt upon which, thus far, I have been unable after repeated 

efforts to obtain any report from the Committee on the Post-Office 

and Post-Road , to which that bill was referred. Mvbillreferred to provi~les also the_ mode of lettin~, &c., ofma?J contrac~ and requires 

the kind of serVIce contracted for to be spemfied. I will read section 

2 of that bill relating to subletting, which is as follows: 

SEc. 2. That hereafter no subletting or transfer of any contract for inland man transportation other than by railroads and steamboats shall be permitted and the same is hereby expressly prohibit-ed. Whenever it shall come t.o the kn'owled~e of the Po tmaster-General that any mail-contractor has sublet or transferred Ills contract, in whole or in part, the same shall be considered as violated and the serv- ice shall be again advertised as herein provided for; and such con~ctor and his 

securities shall be liable on their bond to the United States for any damage resulting to the United States in the premi eR. .Any person or persons contractor or contractor~~, directly or indirectly interested in any mail contract' as an ori!tinal 

party or as original pru·ties thereto, who shall hereafter sublet or tr~sferthe s~e rn whole or in part, excepting by way of pledge or mortgage as security for actuai 

advances in money, property, work, labor, or materials t{) carry out such contract shall forfeit all rio-hts and claims under the same, and shall be deemed !milty of ~ 

rmsdemeanor, an8 be punishable by a fine not exceeding $5,000, and b~ imprison- ment for not more than -twelve months. ~ 

I would much prefer the passage of my bill than to have the amendment of the ge_ntle.m~ from Missouri _[Mr. BLAl.TD] or the amendment 

I a.J?l now ce>nsidermg mgrafted on this general appropriation bill. I 

.beh_eve there should be a separate and .~stinct statute covering this 

snl>Ject as well as the mode of advertiSl.Dg and the letting of mail 

contracts; but rather than run the risk of a failure to have my bill 

acted on, and a-s the~ seems to be a disposition at this time to pass. some mea-sure whereby the evils heretofore arising from the subletting 

of mail contracts may be prevented, I shall support the amendment 

of the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HOLl\IAN] with the amendment 

of the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. ATKINS] whether my amendment is adopted or not, as a decided step in the right direction toremedy the evils complained of. 

The conclusion of the gentleman from Illinois, [Mr. CAN.NO.N,] 

namely: 

If one is not competent to contract for more service than he can in person per- form-and that is what this amendmen~means substantially-then we, to a very large extent, cut off competition, and the cutting off of competition increases th& cost of the service, and increased cost of service means increased burdens upon. the peopleas well as the gentleman from Ohio, [1\Ir. CONVERSE,] when he says 

the adoption of these amendments will lessen competition and in- crea e the co t of the mail service, is clearly a 1wn sequitttr. How 

en1arging the ring of contractors will " cut off competition " it is 

difficult to comprehend. It seems to me that in the ratio the number 

of bidders is increased, in the same ratio competition will be increased. I believe it to be a notorious fact that the operations of the close· 

scheming ring of favored contractors hanging around the Post-OfficeDepartment, each bidding in and securing hundreds and sometimes. thousands of contracts, have deterred hundreds, ag~egating thousands, of honest bidders in almost every State ofthe union from bidding on mail contracts, thereby lessening the number of biddem,. 

destroying a le~itimate, active, and fair competition in the interest 

of economy, frur dealing, and an efficient and honest service. This. 

ring has been, and is to-day, the terror of honest bidders throughout 

the country. I cannot believe that its extinction and utter annihilati~n will be any injury to the Government, the country, or the mail 

service. That Department must be rotten indeed which obtains its 

economical administration and success through a corrupt ring that 

feasts and _fattens upon its awards. Destroy this ring, which depewls 

solely for 1ts support on the subletting of contracts, by taking away 

the ri~ht to sublet, and you throw wide open the door to free and 

fair bidding and invite wholesome competition all over the country. 

Because ring contractors may contract to perform service below 

its value and are enabled to farm it out at a profit to themselves, but 

at ruinous rates to poor sub-contractors, does not justify the basesystem. The Government, no more than a priv·ateindividual, should 

seek to obtain honest labor ;for a less sum than it is fairly worth~ 

Why is it that a ring contractor, who has not a horse, a mule, a saddle, a harness, coach, wagon, or buck-board, or even the crack of a. whip at his command, can take one, a hundred, or a thousand con- tracts at a less rate than the honest, competent bidder who has the 

means, the pluck, and hard-working industry to carry out his con- tract' Simply because he is enabled to take advantage of the igno- rance or necessities of others, and thereby, in tiisregard of the intentions of the Government, and in violation of the spirit and object oi 

his contract, is enabled to force upon the people an inefficient, unre- liable, and inadequate mail service. While the ring-contractor may 

reap a profit, the illy-paid sub-coutractormaywork and toil, in sun- shine and rain, with little or no return, of+;en to his utter ruin, and 

the people are deprived of proper mail facilities. 

The friends of the star service earnestly desir~ that those who have-· 

committed frauds in the Post-Office Department or in the postal 

service of the country should be punished and that the avenues tofraud in that service should be closed. While they heartily unite 

in this, they ask that the star service may be protected,. and, wherenecessary, extended and restored. Under the outcry against this. 

service during the administration of the late Postmaster-General 

that ervice wa-s cn.toff nearly 4,000 miles, muchofitgreatlyneeded 

service, which it is hoped the present administration will restore. 

The present Postmaster-General has, so far aslknow, the confidenceof the country for honesty, fairness, and intelligence, and the people 

dependent upon the star service for their mail facilities look to him 

for justice, in giving them needed and efficient mail service, as well as an honest and an economical administration of his Department. 

[Duri.J;lg the delivery oftheforegoing remarks, when five minutes. 

had exprred, Mr. CULBERSON obtained the floor and yielded his time 

to Mr. UPSO.N, who then concluded his speeoh.] 

Mr. CASWELL. I move that the committee now rise for thepur- pose of limiting debate. 

The motion of Mr. CASWELL was agreed to. 

The comnrittee accordingly rose,;, and J\.Ir. ROBINSON, of Massa--

chusetts, having taken the chair as 1:5peaker pro tempore, Mr. CALKL~S 

reported that the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the 

Union, having had under consideration the bill (H. · R. No. 3548) 

making appropriations for the service of the Post-Office Department 

for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1883, and for other purposes, had come to no resolution thereon. 

Mr. OA.SWELL. I move that.the House again resolve itself into 

Committee of the ·whole on the state of the Union for the further 

consideration of the Post-Office appropriation bill; and pending that 

motion I move that all debate upon the pending paragraph and 

amendments be limited t-o thirty-five minutes . Mr. HATCH. I move to amend-- The SPEAKER ro tempm·e. The Chair will state the motion. Tb.~ 

gentleman from Wisconsin moves that the House resolve itse.lf intP 
1392 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

'Committee of the Whole for the further consideration of the PostOffice appropriation bill, and pending that motion moves that all 

debate upon the pending paragraph and amendments thereto be 

limited to thirty-five minutes. 

Mr. HATCH. I move to make it two hours. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Oh, no; make it one hour. 

Several MEMBERS. Make it one hour. 

Mr. HATCH. I will make it one hour then. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 67, noes 79. 

So the amendment was disagreed to. 

Mr. CASWELL'S motion to limit debate to thirty-five minutes was 

-then adopted. The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. The question now recurs on the motion 

that the House shall resolve itself into the Committee of the Whole 

House for the further consideration of the Post-Office appropriation 

1>ill. 

The motion was agreed to; and the House accordingly resolved it elf 

into Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, (Mr. 

CALKINS in the chair.) 

TheCHA.IRMAN. Thecommitteeresumesit session, and byorder 

of the House all debate on the pending clause and amendments thereto 

is to be closed in thirty-five minutes. 

Mr. BLOUNT. Mr. Chairman, I have learned to have avery areat 

respect for this House, and for its aci?er~nce to the interes~s of tJ;e 

American people. Whatever conclusiOn It may rea-ch I believe will 

be in just deference to those interests. I am not here, in what I 

shall have to say, to act in furtherance of any "ring" or "rings" 

located at the city of Washington for carrying on the mail service. 

Nor am I here for the purpose of aiding one or two or a dozen men among my constituents to push this embarrassment out of the way 

in order that they themselves may have the opportunity of carrying 

the mails at higher rates than they could secure by competing with 

any other person or persons or corporation or "ring," or whatever 

else you may choose to call it. I believe w~ ?ught not to legisl~te 

for either of these classes~ }:>ut for the fifty millions of people who ill· 

habit this country. I betieve we ought to legislate with a view of ·having the most economical and just administration of the postal 

service which can possibly be had. 

What is the present statusofthelawf It submits, Mr. Chairmnn, 

the service of the United States in the carrying of these mails to com- petitive bidding from every quarter throughout this land, and it is a ·course which has been accepted as right and fair from the beginning 

of the Government down to the present time. Why should we not ~et everybody come in for the purpose of competing and reducing the 

cost for carrying the mails of the United States t Why should not 

-the g:reat American people have the public service done at the lowest 

possible rate t 

Why, sir, we are told thatforseveralyearspastwehavehad under 

-the operation of our laws a "ring," as it is called, and rightly so ·called-and! have no apology to make in its behalf-resort had to low 

bidding, and then under the law a-a it stood prior to the last Congress the lowest bidder getting the contract at a rate which did not 

compensate for the service, excluding in this way a class of innocent 

bidders, and then by a system of expediting and multiplying the serv- ice securing large compensation. For instance, the ori~al oon- . -tract for carrying the mail from Las Vegas to Venitas was $16,000, at 

which rate it was impossible to carry the mail with any profit, but 

by multiplication of trips and expediting the service was run up to 

'$150,000. The whole mail service was full of just this sort of thing. 

But that is not the service which this House provided for during 

-the last Congress. It was then provided there should be no increase 

beyond 50 per cent. upon the original cost, and there should be no lllultiplication of trips or expediting of service without rea-dvertise- :ment. The Government broke loose from the old system. It then 

'Said to these gentlemen in the "ring" who had been pursuing the 

JlOlicy I have indicated, "Here is an end to all such service," and the 

Government stands to-day free from the power of any such "ring." 

Therefore, theabusesofwhichthecountrycomplainedpriortothelast 

Congress, the abuses for which certain rndividuals are being prose-

-cuted to-day by the Government, are of the past. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. REED. Mr. Chairman, I believe as I get more experience here 

I drop whatever prejudices I may have ba-d-not that I am doing that 

rapidly, but I find them disaprea-ring gradually. Among the prejudices whlch I entertained whe:r: I entered Con~ress was against talking for the benefit of the county of Buncombe, nut I am &ntirely satis-

-fied that was a mistake ; that there is nothing better in this world 

than presentation of grievances, no matter whether they be reason- .able or unreasonable, for there is nothing which shows the right of 

things like a statement for and against. 

But it is one thing, Mr. Chairman, to st:tte grievances, and another 

thing to provide a remedy. We must not permit ourselves to be car- -ried away by any one-sided a~pect of a case. We must not allow 

ourselves, because complaints are made to us by our constituents ·against people who are absent and far away, to carry us into a direc- ~ion which may be injurious to the Government of the United States. 

Now, I heard a statement made here by a member of the Committee on Appropriations which certainly astonished me, a statement 

that a contractor having one hundred ron tes could select those which 

paid and drop those which did not pay, and the Government was 

utterly powerless. Anybody who knows anything about the administration of the Post-Office Department knows the instant a son- tractor fails in his wcnk on one route his pay is stopped on the others 

until that is made good. 

It is in answer to such complaints as that we are called on to legislate. The trouble about this matter is this: we have either to open 

this matter to free competition or else we have to adopt some other 

system. I amnot one of tho e who believe it is the duty oftheGovern- ment to screw down its employes to the very lowest level. I believe 

there is something in efficiency of service. 

Nevertheless, in a large business, extendina as the Post-Office Department does over this whole country, you have got to adopt some system that will be automatic, some system that will work itself; 

and the system of open and free competition does it. 

If any man here in Washington is willing to take a post-route 

cheaper than anybody else, it goes without saying that it is for the 

interest of the Government to accept him ; and if abuses arise, in th0 

long run they will correct themselves. I believe that the next com- ing trials will slrow whether this system to which we are referring 

has been subject to the abuses alleged throughout this discussion; 

but, if I am correctly informed, it is altogether a misstatement to say 

that outsiders can have access to these bids in the office. As the 

system is described to me, it seems to be absolutely hnpo sible that 

such could be the case ; and consequently in the mail lettings the 

routes go to the lowest bidder. 

I ask the committee, Mr. Chairman, to pause before they break 

down this system on account of the alleged difficulties which have 

arisen in its administration, and establish in its stead a system the 

effect of which we can see in part, and which may be liable to a great many imperfections and difficulties that we cannot see. I think 

that unless some square system is adopted, embodying sound principles of business, we had better leave the matter to the free competition of all bidders of every class. 

Mr. SPRINGER rose. Mr. IDSCOCK. If the gentleman from Illinois will yield for a moment, I desire to yield my time to the gentleman from Georgia 

[Mr. BLOUNT] to enable him to finish his remarks. 

The CHA.IRMAN. The Chair will then recoQ1ri.ze the gentleman 

from Georgia; after which the gentleman from fllinois will be recognized. 

Mr. BLOUNT. Mr. Chairman, I am indebted to the gentleman from 

New York, the chairman of the Committee on Appropriations, for his 

courtesy in extending time enough to enable me to conclude what I 

desired to Sft.Y in this connection. 

Nowt sir, it is clear to my mind that the great body of the abuses 

which It is alleged now exist, and out of which the last administration 

had to endure so large a share of scandal, that these abuses are in a great measure removed by the legislation thereon at the last session 

of the Forty -sixth Congress. We cannot expect in the affairs of government an administration so exact as that which pertains to the private affairs of ordinary life. There will be always abuses. They are inseparable from any system of government. They are subjects always 

for criticism and for legislation; but, Mr. Chairman, let us not, in the 

animosities excited by just criticism, go beyond whatwould be reason- able and proper, and substitute something in the b.eat of that discussion that does not promise anything better, but which strongly points 

to an increase of the danger. · There is not only the law as to competitive bidding, but we have 

another law, meeting the abuses to which reference has been made 

by my friend from North Carolina. His alleged abuse is, that the 

contractors do not always carry the mail; that they sometimes fail. 

But if they do fail, what is the remedyf Does not my friend know 

what the remedy is f Let them be prosecuted. Let the Government 

prosecute them. Their liability, under the law, is clear and cannot 

be evaded. They are liable to $5,000 fine and an imprisonment of 

twelve months if they fail to carr..v the mails. 

Do you tell me the Government does not prosecute them for fail- ure Y Why, sir, are we in that helpless and hopeless condition that 

the laws are not enforced, that the Government is powerless, or that 

it is so corrupt that it defeats their purpose 'I If that be the con- dition of affairs I must eonfess that I know of no remedy by any 

legislation which you can propose here. But, sir, they are liable to prose~ution, as I have said, and they ought to be prosecuted. And 

what IS the remedyf 

Gentlemen will say: why we have left people at home who would 

be perfectly willing to take the contracts and carry them into effect. 

What would be the situation then f Why, sir, during the last Congress we found when we were investigating this great question of tho 

star-route service, we found that it wa-a done uniformly by petitions 

sent by people living along the route, and by members of the House 

and Senate who pressed their consideration on the Postmaster-General. We found that throughout the whole system abuses prevailed,, 

and that Senators and Representatives were themselves active in 

urO'ing these things upon the Department. How will it be, sir, when this is multiplied by the three hundred 

and twenty-five members of the nexi House, and with the Senate, 

with friends at home urging the increase of the service, and with 

the petitions and other documents forwarded through the agenoy 

of the mail contractors f I submit that we will all be constantly 

annoyed by such petitions. There will be more petitions, there will 
1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1393 

be constant applications for service, and for increase of trips and 

expedition, and tbe pressure upon the Department will be enlarged 

by the addition of new members to constitute the next Congress. 

There is not one route iu fifty of these expedited routes that ha-s 

not been justified by just such methods as that. And therefore I 

Ray, sir, that the country will not be benefited in any mantter by 

multiplying the powers that shall clamor in the Department for 

increase of trips and increase of compensation. Our legislation upou 

this subject is just as skillfully drawn and as comprehensive as we can make it; and I trust this committee will see the propriety of letting it alone. 

l\Ir. MANNING. May I ask the gentleman from Georgia a question T 

The CHAIIU1AN. The time of the gentleman from Georgia bas 

expired. ~11'. MANNING. I want to ask a stngle question before the gentleman takes his seat. 

Tlle CHAIRMAN. ·without objection the gentleman may proceed. 

:Mr. ATKINS. I object. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I regret that the gentleman from Georgia opposes 

this amenclment. I was in hopes that my friend would be on the 

side of genuine economy, but his economy in this respect is that of 

straining at t.J1e gnat and swallowing the camel. He is objecting to ~e slight increase of expenditures and overlooks the great fact that we am cutting down one of the greatest sources of fraud in the 

administration of the Post-Office Department. 

The •rentleman from Ohio on my left, and also the gentleman from ~·ew Ygrk, have tsuggested that we will have greater competition by 

allowino- the professional biddel'S to come in; and the Department 

has sent a letter here stating that the professional bidders are 20 per 

cent. below the local bidders. In reference to the allowing of the 

coiL tracts for furnishing supplies for the printing at the Government 

Printin•r Office, section 3770 of the Revised Statutes provides that 

the Joi:ft Committee on Public PrintingShall not consider any proposal which is not accompanied by satisfactory evitlence that the person making it is a manufactnrer or dealer in the description of 

paper which be proposes to furnish. 

That provision requires the bidder to be one capable of furnishing 

1 he material himself; in other words, capable of doing the work. 

This provision of the gentleman from Indiana is of the same character. It rectnire the person who puts in a bid to be able to perform 

the work, an(l not to put in a speculative bid with the expectation 

of gcttino- n local bidder to do the work at his own bidding. 

It bas Leeu further statecl that we cannot secure the necessary 

competition-that was the argument of the gentleman from Georgia 

[M..r. BLOUNT] and others-if we cut off this professional bidder. 

l\lr. Chairman, I am willing to cut him off, let the consequences be 

what 1hey may. I will tell the committee and the gentleman from 

Georgia what it costs us to have the professional bidder, and then 

I will take the statement of the gentleman from New York [Mr. 

HrscocK] as to what the professional bidder saves, and putting them 

together, see which is to be preferred. 

According to the reportofthe Postmaster-General, this service was increased iu one year by 1,699,000 by reason of these professional 

bidders. Now I cannot conceive of its being increased one-tenth part 

of that amount by cuttin~ off these professional·bidders. The rule 

with these professional b1dders is in the first place to buy off if they can all the local biduers, and if they do not succeed in doing that 

the local bidder is so harassed or surrounded by difficulties that he 

cannot get his bid in. But the object of the professional bidder is 

to bid low with the object of underbidding local bidders, and then 

having his service expediteq, increased, or extended; and it is tho 

very point in this business t)?.at the professional contractor comes here 

to Washington and gets his contracts less than any honest man can take them for. He does not expect to do the work, and he does not 

do the work on the contract he enters into. This report of the Postmaster-General shows that the contracts were let at ridiculously low 

prices, and that in many cases after only one month of service hacl 

been performed upon them they were expedited to the amount of 

thousands and thousands of dollars. 

Mr. CASSIDY. They have friends at court to help them. 

!1r. SPRINGER. Yes, sir; they have friends at court, as is suggested by my friend from Nevada who lives in a region where the 

people suffer from these swindling contracts; and under the law: the 

local bidder is almost prohibited from making a bid. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

.Mr. CANNON. I have been through a contest touching abuses in 

this service. I recollect we had one in the last Congress that the 

gentleman from Kentucky spoke of. I was in that contest. Then I 

believed and so stated, and so state now, that we had maladministration in the Post-Office Department. Now I believe and so state that 

there is not maladministration in the Post-Office Department. Then 

the law needed amending, and we amended it so that the cost of the 

t>ervice coultl not be increased over one-half of the original contract 

1n'ice. Mter that amendment and with proper administration in the 

Post-Office Department, when no man can point to an abuse that is now being carried on in corn1ection.. with this star service, it is won- derful to see bow men ;rush in to correct the frauds that did exist two 

years ago and have been corrected. Oh, sir, I wish we could have 

had but one-half the power two years ago when we were making 

XIII-88 

this fight that we now have when it is not needed. I say we had the 

fight then and we hear the talk now. Why, sir, you cannot pnt any legislation upon the statute-book but 

what the bad action of the executive, in the event you have bacl 

action _on its part, will ba e upon it abu es and fraud . But what is 

the use now in this appropriation bill, when everything is running 

smoothly, when the country commends the action of the Department 

in connection W1th star routes, when the law is as it should be, when 

the Postmaster-General tells you in his communication that these 

biuders are 20 pe-r cent. lower than the local bidders, the difference 

amounting to a million and a half of dollars-why under such circumstances are we caJled upon to rush in and, so to speak, to break a cog out of the wheel' Why are we called upou to enact legislation that will embarrass the honest aclministration of this Department instead of aiding and assisting it 'I 

Nor, sir, do I think it is wi e in any event, even if legislation is 

needed, to enact that le~itslation in this piecemeal way. Here is the 

Committee on the Post-uffice and Post-Roads. Let them consider the 

question. Already a resolution, as the Postmaster-General tells us, 

has been introduced and adopted by the House directing him to over- haul this whole system and report to Congress. Before that is done we rush in in haste without understanding the law, without understanding the precedents, without knowing what will be the result of our action, to embarrass the Department. I do not think it wise. · Again, if yon pass this law I undertake to say that the effect of it 

will be to relieve every one of the bids in the Pacific section that 

have just been opened, because under the law as it stands to-day they can sublet, and the bids were made in view of that law. That service 

under those bids is to commence on the 1st of July next. If you pass 

this amendment, I undertake to say that when the 1st of July comes you will not have the bids, and cannot have, under the law, thereletting to commence on the 1st of July next. If this matter ought 

to be revised, let the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads 

fully investigate it and report to this House, instead of coming in 

here and turning a handspring, and crying "fraud!" "fraud!" 

"fraud!" when by the very provision you propose to put on the law 

you will embalTass the Department and begot fraud instead of cutting it off. 

Mr. DAWES. While I fully agree with tho remarks of the gentle- man who ha.s just spoken, [:hfr. CANNON,] and while I believe that 

there was maladministration nnd there was dishone ty in this serv- ice, I believe that there is now both the disposition in the administration and the power under the law to correct the abuses. 

There is, however, one feature connected with the law in reference 

to the subletting of contracts which to my mind presents an anomaly 

in Jaw. Under the law a contractor can sublet and t1·ansfer the entire 

benefit and interest of his contract. No consideration whatever 

necessarily obtains in the transfer; it is neither in equity nor in common sense a subletting; it is an assignment without consideration. In other branches of the Government service, if I am not mistaken, an assi~nment of a contract is forbidden by law. 

Now, what 1.8 the special reason for this exception to the general 

law in connection with the postal service 7 And what are or have 

been or will be its excellencies in application in the administration 

of the Post-Office Department that should justify its continuance f 

.And if evils have grown and may continue to grow out of it, why not 

correct it f . 

In my own district I have seen some practical application of this 

system of subletting. A professional bidder obtained a route for 

467 and sublet it for $467; this wa less than the service is worth. 

The Department to-day has relieved the sub-contractor from carrying the mail six times a week in accordance with the contract, and 

has allowed him under the provisions of the law to perform the serv- ice by carrying the mails but three times a week. The professional 

bidder sublet the contract for precisely the same amount he was to 

receive. He made no money in the transaction. Then why did he 

do it f How could he afford to do it 7 He could afford to do it, perhaps, for a reason which I find in this fact: within twenty miles of 

that route this same professional bidder was allowed $3,500 under a temporary contract, not advertised, with no other bidder, as it was prior to the act of April 7, 1881. I also find that the present administration bas discontinued that contract, because the compensation was exorbitant and the service was not needed. 

I have no disposition to assail the present system; but the abuses 

which have occurred under it must be considered and must be cor- rected, let who will control the a-dministration, whether the Republican or the Democratic party. 

Mr. MAGINNIS. My honorable friend from Illinois [Mr. CANNo~] 

complains that when a year ago he was making war on maladministration iu the Post-Oftice Department he did not have the support 

of the members from the West and South who now favor this amendment, which is intended to exclude the professional bidders from 

mon.opoliziug the mail c9ntracts and to permit our local carriers to 

have a chance to carry the mails. There never was a time, then or 

now, when western and southern members did not favor such a change as this in the laws relating to the letting of contracts for 

carrying the mails. · We do not favor this amendment because we distrust the present 

administration of the Post-Office Department. I believe that it is 
1394 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

just and honest. And allow me to tell you here that there are no people in this country who are more concerned in and who more heartily indor e an honest and faithful administration of the PostOffice Department than the representatives of those western con- l!tituencies where the vast expanse_ of territory traversed is greatly 

.lisproportioned to the number of inhabitants who now occupy it. 

At best we know that our mail routes show a deficit in receipts as compared to expenditures, and if dishonesty prevails the deficit will 

be rrreater; but we contend that mail service should be maintained 

be;au e not only our local population but the great commercial marts 

of the country are interested in a liberal service upon them. 

But we did hold then and we still hold that refetrm coulcl be made 

in the methods of the Department and honesty secured in the letting 

of mail contracts without reducing or attacking the mail _service 

certainly not excessive and in most instances insufficient, that the 

tlealings between the Government and its contractors could be regulated without depriving the people of the mail service which they 

req nired. Therefore we could not join in a crusa.de which was not so much for reform in the contract office as it was a general accusation 

that there was already too liberal a service in the western Territol'ies. In the Territory L represent the reform administration found 

very few places where they could reduce the service, and the few re- ductions that they diu make have proved a great inconvenience to 

the people. We could not join in a cry for the reduction of the serv- ice, but the late Postmaster-General had no warmer sympathizers in 

every effort to break down the monopolists who have prevented our home contractors from obtaining service. We did regret that it was thought necessary during the progres of that reform to attack neces- sary routes and to publish, as some of the New York papers did, the names of nearly every Army officex: and every Senator and member 

from the West as having indorsed the establishment or increase of 

unnecessary mail routes. , In my country, at least, none such were 

found to exist, but it was found that many new routes were necessary. 

Now, if I ever desired the verification of my former statement that 

the jackal that follow the Federal supply trains through the extent 

of the land burrowed beneath this capital and made their dens within 

the shadows of these Departments, the very letter which tho gentleman from New York [Mr. HrscocK] has had read in defense of 

his position, to the effect that 90 per cent. of these bids were let to 

protes ional bidders, would afford me all the information needed to 

strengthen the position I have always held in that respect. 

This is the very fact, and this state of things was the very source of abuse and of corruption which polluted the administration of the 

Po. t-Office Department and brought it into disrepute. 

r\ow, what are the objections which are urged against this amendment Fir~t, that it will diminish competition. Sir, I hold that it 

will not <lirninish, but will ratker increase competition, for when 

local bidders throughout the country find that they can make bids 

which will stand some chance of acceptance you will see that they 

will bid freely, and they will make their bids lower than they are 

made now. Another gentleman [Mr. C.ll>TNON] tells us that if we adopt this 

amendment it will be practically saying that there shall be one con- tractor for each one of the thousands of mail-routes in the country. 

That gentleman will remember that in the testimony given before 

his committee last year the largest contractor in the United States 

testified that he carried the mails over every route for which he con- tracted, and that he had never let a sub-contract. Consequently 

that does a.way with the objection that it will be necessary to have a separate contractor for every separate route in the United States. 

Another objection was made by my friend from Nebraska, [1\lr. 

VALENTINE,] that these men would not let sub-contracts, but would 

do this work by agents. Well, they do that now, and one of the difficulties about the sub-contract system is this: these ring contractors 

let a route to a sub-contractor, that sub-contractor goes out into his 

country and runs a lot of debts through the country, obtains animals 

and vehicles from our home people, and then fails, and the contractor 

h; not responsible for any of the debts incurred among our people. 

He then gets another sub-contractor to try it. That man also fails, 

and so on to the end of his term, greatly to the det1iment of the people of the country. 

These contractors who get such a number of routes bid off the con- tracts in different names. They have a bad route, and they cause their factotum to fail on it. He is irresponsible; his bonds generally 

prove worthless; the Government is forced to relet the route, and the 

riug contractors perform the service only on such routes, as a general 

thing, as are profitable to them. The number of routes that these 

people carry at a loss to themselves is very small I assure you. You 

need not be afraid of voting for this amendment for fear of letting 

them out of many bad contracts. They will get out of them some way. If in no other way they will get some special agent to declare 

the route unnecessary, and through political influence here have it 

di continued. This dodge generally works well, as it is apparently 

in the interest of economy. I know that this has been done in my own 'l'enitory against my protest, to the great injru-y of •umbers of 

:peO})le who have been left without a mail until another route could 

ue -advertised and let in some way. 

There is no tlaliger t>f this amendment breaking down the recent 

h:tting. If it dee9, it would not do muoh ha.ri:u te have a 1 lettini1 

for I understand that most of the successful bidders are of the same party that have been so loudly censured. And many other ro:ntes 

have fallen into the hands of new combinations which, before the con- tract time is out, will prove as bad as the old ones. It is not a change 

of individuals, not an alternation of rings that the country wants, 

it is a change of the system. We want a method uncler which rings 

will be unprofitable, and consequently impo sible. Let us encourage 

the local bidders. If the Government does have to pay a little more at first it will at least pay it to the honest local mail-carrier. Ho 

will spend it in the country where helivesandcarriesthemail. He 

will carry the mail better than the non-resident contractor, because 

he is more amenable to public sentiment at home and to the critici m 

and complaint of his own neighbors. His profits will ~o to the 

general uood of the community in which he lives, and Wlll not be 

used, a tboseofthe profe sional bidder are u ed, to corrupt your clerk 

and officials and to create perennial candals in the contract office. 

I think that if we adopt this proposition, and make a discrimination 

in favor of local bidders, we shall take a step further on the high road 

to real reform in the Post-Office Department; we will do more to secure a clean administration of the service than has ever been done 

before by Congress. It may cost a little more at first, but in t.he end 

it will be infinitely cheaper, besides a.dding to the honesty, the efficiency, and thegoodreputeofthepostal Department of this Government. 

.Mr. CASWELL. I yield one minute to the gentleman from California [Mr. PAGE.] 

Mr. PAGE. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman yields to me one minute 

that I mayreplytothe gentlem<m from Georgia, [Mr. BLOUNT,] who 

could not :find language bitter enough to denounce the Senators and 

Member of Congress who have recommended an increase of the mail 

service in their districts or State . I desire to send to the Clerk's 

desk, to be read or printed in the RECORD, a statement showing the 

increase of mail service in the sixth Congre sional district of Georgia, 

made on the recommendation of the gentleman himself during the 

current contract term. There are nineteen rout.es, and the largest 

post-office in the district does not pay $400 per annum. I will uot 

occupy the time of the gentleman from Wisconsin by having this 

statement read, but will ask that it be printed in the RECORD. 

There was no objection. The statement is as follows: 

The followin~ is a. statement of the increase of ma.il service in the sixth Congressmnal district of Georgia, made on the recommendation of Hon. J. H. BLOUNT, 

during the current contract term : 

15159 

15161 

15162 

15163 

15165 

15167 

15225 

15290 

15292 

15296 

15297 

15303 

15310 

15380 

15381 

15417 

15418 

15419 

15426 

Termini. 

Madison to Monticello ....••..•..•.•..•...•.•....•••.•.•••..•..... Social Circle to Monticello ........•.....•..•......•...••..•....... Monticello to Macon ............................................. . 

~~~~;eftoc~~~~ ~~~~~:::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ~=~ Ro~si~~SJ!~~i;~~~~::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 

iYC>~!~~~~~t:> Ji>~::::::::::::::::::::::::: ~:::::: ::::::::::: 

Haddock Station to Hillsborough ................................ . Eatonton to Monticello ......................................... .. Cochran to Dublin ............................................... . 

~~Ef~n:O~:~:O.l. ~~~~::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::: 

Griswold ville to Jeffersonville ................................... . Jeffersonville to Macon .......................................... . 

g~~~~~o~tfe~~~~~~~~::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 

Gordon to Big Sandy ............................................. . 

$273 00 36 66 4M 63 

160 00 694 83 600 00 895 00 384 00 215 00 208 58 396 00 92 8'2 125 00 495 00 249 tlO 

595 00 99 50 100 00 130 iO 

Mr. CASWELL. I yield a minute to the gentleman from Tennessee, [Mr. ATKINS. J 

Mr. ATKINS. Mr. Chairman, I had hoped to say something on this amendment, but I find myself this morning so very unwell as to 

be unable to do so. I will only say (for this seems to be the main 

point in this discussion) that the amendment of the gentleman from 

Indiana, as modified by t.he incorporation of my amendment, en- larges the area of competitive bidding..; and so far as you do this 

you purify the service. As suggested by the gentleman :(rom Montana, [Mr. MAGINNIS,] those persons in the States and Territories 

who would be glad to bid are now deterred from doing so by the ex- traordinary success of a certain ring living here in Washington and 

Georgetown, members of which bid for nearly all these contracts. If 

this amendment should be adopted it would break up that ring. 

Allow me to add that this ring could not be successful if it were not 

for the fact that they are bouncl to be in collusion with certain men in the Post-Office Department. In this remark I have no allusion 

eithe1· to the Postmaster-General, or the :First, Second, or Third 

Assitltan t Po tmaster-General. 

1\Ir. CASWELL. I yield two minutes to the gentleman from Kentucky, [Mr. BLACKBURN.] 

}Jr. BLACKBURN. Mr. Chairman, in reference to the statement 

made by me this afternoon that these star-service contractors avail th~itlselves of profitable contracts and relieve themselves of unprofitubl untra.sts-a. statement whieh I unders ana was eontroverted b7 

---
1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1395 

the gentleman from :Maine [Mr. REED ]-I simply say that if he will 

refer to the printed report made in the last Congress by the Committe-e on Appropriations, char~ed with the investigation of this matter, 

be will find that the then Second Assistant Postma-ster-General admitted under oath as a witne s that he had in five or six cases failed 

to hold Mr. Walsh responsible as a defaulting contractor, because 

the law di<l not authorize him to do so, although Mr. Walsh stood 

that day upon the books of the Department as the accredited and 

recognized sub-contractor upon another route that ».ad been raised 

from 13,500 per annum to something more than 13tl,OOO. ,Mr. MAGINNIS. Can there be a failure on any contract without 

its being bid off to another person f ~lr. BLACKBURN. I answer the gentleman that the sworn testimony of the then Second Assistant Postmaster-General, now in print on the Jiles of this House, shows that that was, as it is to-day, the 

practice of the Post-Office Department ;• and under the existing law 

it caunot bo avoided. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

:Mr. CASWELL. Mr. Chairman, I do not suppose that any gentleman on this floor desires in the lea-st degree to foster or protect 

thoso men known as professional bidders. But we must concede to 

them the same rights that other citizens enjoy. While I am ready to 

join hands with gentlemen here at any time to adopt, if we can, a law to check and prevent these abuses, I do protest against any effort 

to tack upon this appropriation bill this loose provision, which will 

result in an entire failure to accomplish the objects in view. 

Why are these professional bidders in possession of 85 per cent. of 

these contracts f Because their bids are the lowest. Can we prevent 

t heil· bidtling in this way f No one will for a single moment pretend 

that we can. Their bids are lower than those of the local bidders, 

nnd we must concede to them the right to take contracts for which 

they are the lowest bidders ; we cannot prevent it. 

I have not yet beard an answer to this point, that under this amendment every one of these contracts may be immediately let to a partner or a fri erul for the same or a greater price, and then they are beyond 

the reach of the amendment; the contractor may then proceed t.o hire 

his service and put it upon the routes. [Here the hammer fell.] I 

ask a moruPnt more, as I have not heretofore occupied a single 

minute on thi question. Under this provision we would take away 

from the men who are now doing the service of the country the right 

which we gave them, under the law of 1878, to file their sub-contracts 

in the Department and receive their pay directly from the Government. We leave the men who actually do the service to the mercy 

of the original or the sub-contractor in every instance; and thus 

they may be cheated out of a portion of their pay. 

The very evil we tried to prevent would be re-established by the 

adoption of the amendment, and we will find the entire service con- trolled Ly profc sional bidders in the hands of nominal sub-contracton; who arc beyond the reach of this law. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendment pending. 

Mr. HOL~IAN. One word of explanation. The gentleman fTOm 

Wisconsin, adopting the views of the Postma-ster-General, suggests 

the snb-contractor may enter into a contract with the Department or other person at the same price for which he himself contracted to ~arry the mails, and thus defeat the operation of this provision en- tirely. I ask, therefore, to submit t.he following for the proposition as it now stands before the committee: 

Provided, however, Tbat whenever any contractor or sub-contracror shall sublet 

his contract for the transportation of the mail on any route for a. less sum than that 

for which he contracted to perform the service, the Postmaster-General may de-

<'L'lore the original conti·a{lt at an end, and enter intc. a contract with the last sub-con- tractor withoat advertising to perform the service on the terms at which the last 

sub-conti'actor agreed with the oriltioal contractor or former sub-contracror to per- form the same: Prwided, That said last sub-contractors shall enter into a good and 

sufficient bond, and that the oriJZinal contractor shall not be released from his con· tract until a good and sufficient 'bond has been made by such last sub-contractor anu accoJ)ted by the Post-Office Department. 

The CHAIRMAN. The question first recurs on the amendment 

moved by the gentleman from North Carolina, [Mr. VANCE, 1 which 

will now be read. 

The Clerk ren,d as follows : 

Providedfurtlter, That when a contract is declared void on account of its having neen sublet the contra.ct()r shall not be entitled to one month's extra pay as pro- vided for by the statute. 

The committee divided; and there were-ayes 66, noes 76. 

Mr. VANCE demanded tellers. - Tellers were ordered; and Mr. VANCE and Mr. CASWELL were appointed. 

The committee again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 75, noes 83. So the amendment was rejected. 

The CHAIRMAN. The question now recurs on the substitute 

IDOYed by the gentleman from Texa-s, [Mr. UPSON,] which will be 

reacl. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Or. if the sum agreed upon to perform said service by the sub-contractor shall 

be cleemed inadequate compensation for the service to be rendered, the Postmaster- General may in his discretion-enter into a conti·act, without adv-ertisement, with t.be sub-con tractor or auy other pers!'n to .perf!'J'!ll said service during the term of, 

-and at a.ny sum le s than that fixed m, sa1d or1grnal contract. · 

r. UPSON~ 'that was intended as an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Indiana as modified by the amendment 

of the aentlell!an from Tennessee, [Mr. AT~S.] 

The CHAIRMAN. In that case it could not have been received at 

the time, but it is now in order as an amendment to the amendment 

of the gentleman from Indiana. 

The amendment to the amendment was rejected. 

The que tion next recurred on the amendment of Mr. HOiu"\IA.lll. 

The committee divided; and there were-ayes 88, noes 72. 

Mr. CASWELL demanded teller . Tellers were ordered; and Mr. CASWELL and Mr. HoLMAN were appointed. 

The committee again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 99, 

noes 8'2. • 

So the amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. CASWELL. I shall ask for a yea-and-nay vote on that amendment in the IIouse. 

Mr. CANNON. This being an amendment to the committee's bill, we are entitled to :1 vote on it in the House. 

The CHAIRMAN_ You·are entitled to a yea-and-nay vote if one- fifth of tho e present vote in favor of it. 

1\1r. ATKINS. I move the following amendment: 

Provided further, When a contract, hereafter made,Js declared void on account of its being sublet, the contra{ltor shall not be entitled to one month's extra pay, a.s prescribed by law. 

Mr. ATKINS. I will simply say the amendment as offered now is 

not liable to the same objection as when offered by the gentleman 

from North Carolina. 

The CHAIRMAN. Debate is closed. 

Mr. VANCE. I intended my amendment should have the effect to 

apply only to future contracts and not alone to those already in exist- ence. 

The committee divided; and there were-ayes 581 noes 33. 

So :Mr. ATKr~s's amendment to the amendment was agreed to. 

l\fr. MULDROW. I offer the following amendment: 

Provided further, That in addition to the advertising for bids for performing serv- ice on postal star routes by the Postmaster-General now required by law, he shall 

also advertise the geueraJ maillettingsin ea{lh State and Tern tory in ene newspapN· 

in each Congressional district of each State and Territory, and by posting such 

adv-erti ement at each court-boust' in such State or Territory where the service is to be performed, for at least sixty days before the time of such general letting. 

Mr. CANNON. I make the point of order on that amendment, that 

it changes existing law, and does not decrease expenses, but, on the 

contrary, increases them. 

lli. MULDROW. On the contrary, it seems to me it is apparent 

that it decreases expenditures. In the first pla.ce, it is germane to 

the subject-matter, and in the next place, it does decrease expenditure, or at least that will be the result if the amendment is adopted. 

Why, the very object of this is to create competition. In all tran - actions in life competition is the means to secure the service or the 

thing required at the lowest rate. Wherever you have this competition you will have low bidding, and wherever you give notice, and 

the most extended notice, there you will have the greatest number of 

bids. Therefore, by inserting the advertisement8 in a newspaper in 

each Congressional district, and by posting the advertisement on each 

court-house door in every county in the Sta~ or Territory where the 

service is to be performed, it necessariiy gives a much greater com- petition than you would otherwise secure. The result would be, 

instead of an increase of expenditure, a reduction in expenditures. · The CHAIRMAN. The law now is, as the Chair understands it, 

that all ad vertise.ments for this service are by posting notices upon 

the doors of the post-offices throughout the country, furnished by the 

Post-Office Department. This proposed amendment necessarily in- creases that expenditure by publication in newspapers tbroughont 

the district or terdtory where the service is to be performed. The 

Chair, therefore, thinks that it isobnoxioustotherule for the reason that whatever be its effect ultimately, it does not on its face retrench 

expenditure. 

Mr. MULDROW. But the effect of it is to retrench expenditure. 

The CHAIRMAN. Not upon its face. 

Mr. MULDROW. It secures the service at a less rate by giving a more extended notice; and under the rule the objection is obviated 

by the fact that the result of it is to largely reduce expenditures. 

The CHAIRMAN. The universal line of decision in such cases is 

that the proposed amendment must upon its face retrench expenditures. This does not upon its face retrench expenditures. 

111r. HUMPHREY. I hope the Chair will hear me for a moment 

upon the point of order. The point of order made against this proposed amendment is, that it will chan~e existing law, and that it will 

increase expenditures. It is so obnoxwus tot he first point that I will 

not attempt to contest at this time, but as to the second point I hold 

it is not olmoxious to the point of order, because it will sn,ve expenditures. If the e routes were advertised in each State, or in each 

Congressional di trict, it would do more to bring t.hem dow11 to a reasonable compensation for the service than anything else, in my 

judgment, that could be done. It would give an opportunity for the 

people to be informed generally, so that a man might intelligently make a bid without sendina here to the Department and get this 

book which contains the different routes on which service is to be 

placeu; a,l.1d which is the only accessible source of information that l::e 

cfin have; while under the preijent law only a not.iee is ad.Yert.ised in 
1396 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23·, 

the post-office, so that the majority of people have no opportunity of 

knowing the routes. ,:Mr. MULDROW. The present law requires only the publication 

of tbe advertisements by posting them up in the post-office, where no body sees them. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is in sympathy with the object the 

gentleman desires to accomplish, but must hold that this is obnoxious to the point of order for the reason already given. . 1\fr. HUMPHREY. I hope before the Chair decides the point that 

he will hear me for a moment. 

Tbe CHAIRMAN. The Chair will hear the gentleman on tbe point 

of order. 

1\Ir. ~UMPHREY. This amendment, in my judgment, will effect a considerable saving. If adopted, and wider publicity was thereby 

given to these advertisements, it would, under the law, do more toward securi.Rg economy in that branch of the service than anything else. There would be no more expense in reletting, as this 

would save all the expense which is made necessary by·the fact that 

under the present law there is necessarily little or no competition. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will be compelled to hold that the 

amendment is obnoxious to the rule. The Clerk will read the next 

paragraph. ' 

The Clerk read as follows: 

For railway post-office car service, $1,526,000. 

For necessary and special facilities on trunk lines, $500,000. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. I desire to offer an amendment to 

line 60. 

The CHAIRMAN. The amendment will be- read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

After the word "lines," in line 60, insert" including the Mississippi River," so that it will read "for. necessary and special facilities on trunk lines, including the 

MU:sissippi River, $500,000." 

Mr. CANNON. I make the point of order upon that amendment. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. What is the point of order' 

Ur. CANNON. My point of order is this: that under existing law 

th steamboat service is let by contra{}t- . Mr. HISCOCK. Let me call the attention of the gentleman to 

another point: the clause to which this amendment would be appropriate has already been passed. 

Mr. CANNON. Certainly. It is not germane in the first place. 

In the second place, the pay for steamboat service is regulated by 

contract, while this loo.ks toward another method for ~;ecuring the 

1}erformance of that service. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. As I understand my colleague the 

point of order he makes is simply that under existing law the steamboat. mail service is established by contract. Now, am I to understand my colleague to say that all other mail service is not a matter 

of contract f 

I call the attention of the committee to a very notable feature in 

the provisions of the statutes upon the subject, that in all cases relating to mail service by railroads the Postmaster-General may contract, 

but in all matters relating to steamboat service the Postmaster-GEmera! is aQ.thorized to_ cause service t-o be performed, a much more potent word than a mere contract. He has power to cause the mail 

to be carried on steamboats; and, Mr. Cha.irman, it is very natural 

1hat that section of the law should contain the word "cause," because 

the navigable waters-the great Mississippi-are conceded to be 

nmler the exclusive jurisdiction of the Government of the United 

State . Hence the law provides that the Postmaster-General may cause steamboats and packets to cauy the mail. He may compel them to 

ca1·ry the mail. But he can only contract with railroads. He has no such authority over railroads and other post-roads of the United 

States. The law simply authorizes the Postmaster-General to con- tract for carrying the mails over them. 

This, lli. Chairman, is an appropriation of r:oo,ooo for special 

facilities on trunk lines. Has the law anywhere defined what a trunk line is f What is a trunk line in the meaning of the law f -Are not the great naviga\lle waters of the country trunk lines Y 

Have they ·not their tributaries as mnch as the railroads, many of 

them' 

Then, sir, this gives a very wide discretion to the Postmastel'-General to say what road is a trunk line. It does not matter what road 

he may seleot and extend his favor to in the appropriation of this 

money; if in his opinion, or according to his judgment, or even if we infer only from his expenditure of the mo~ey, that he considers a particular line to be a trunk line, we have no appeal from that decision. 

Now, sir, IinsistthatthegreatM:ississippiRivershould be included 

in this appropriation of $500,000 to be placed at the discretion of the 

Postmaster-General. 

Tbe CHAIRMAN. The Chair desires to call the attention of the 

gentleman from Illinois to the fa~t that the pending clause relates 

to special facilities on trunk lines of railroad. 

.l\lr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. And I beg to call the attention of 

the Chair to. the fact that the clause does not necessarily relate to 

railroa<ls exclusively. It may have been so intended, but from the 

text of the Lill it does not appear to have any special relation to rail- roans. Mr. CANNON. If that be true, and if the gentleman undertakes 

by his amendment to make this c1au e apply to steamboats, thenbis 

amendment is subject to the point of order. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. I know my colleague's astutene ' S 

and assiduity in such matters, but I must beg him to be not quite so fast. 

The CHAIRMAl~. Th~ Chair will ask the gentleman from Illinois 

[Mr. SL~GLETON] whether thflre is any law now existing by which 

the term "trunk lines" can ue made to apply to steamboats Y 

lli. SINGLETON, of Illinois. I wa-s coming to that. At the fiftyninth line of the bill there is an appropriatiouFor railway post-office ear service, $1,526,000. 

That is for car service. The next item is that now before the com- mittee: 

For necessary and special fa{lilities on trunk lines, $500,000. 

What are trunk line Y The clause does not say railroad line any 

more than river lines, but it says trunk lines. I suppose my colleague [Mr. CANNON] will not think that it relates to a subsequent 

clausewhichauthorizes the Department to spend nine or ten thousand. 

dollars for trunks. 

This bill does not define what a trunk line is. Nor has the statute 

defined what a trunk line is; whether it is a line of railroad or a navigable river. They are simply tru11.k lines available for the mail 

service of the United States, and the term is applic-able to post-roads 

of the United States, whether they are turnpikes, whether they are plank-roads, whether they aJ"e canals, whether they are navigable 

waters, Ol' whether they are railroads. Any of these may, in the discretion of the Postmaster-Genera], be declared trunk lines and may 

have the benefit of this appropriation of $500,000. 

Now, sir, we ask that the great M:is is ippi River shall have applied to it a portion of this appropriation. We are entitled to it. An<l 

I do not think the Chair can hold that the point of order is well taken 

by my colleague that this relates to railroads only. This is not. :.b 

clause providing for the transportation of mails upon railroads. It 

is wholly and entirely outside of the preceding paragraphFor inland mail transportation, namely: For transportation on railroad routes $10,655,000. 

That has already been agreed to by the committee and that sum appropriated for that kind of post-roads. Now here comes a sum to 

be appropriated indefinitely; not to railroads but to trunk lines. And 

I propose by my amendment to say what shall constitute a trunk line 

in the meaning of this act, by saying that the navigable waters of the 

great Mississippi River shall be regarded as one of the trunk lines of 

the United States. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of the opinion that in the popular sense in which the language is u ed, the term trunk lines in the pending paragraph applies simply to trunk lines of railroads, and that the 

amendment would not be germane to this clause. The Chair exceedingly regrets to be compelled to rule as he does, that the amendment 

is not ~ermane to a clause which applies simply to the trunk lines 

which m the popular sen e of the term are trunk lines. · :Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. With ~eat deference to the opinion 

of the Chair, I wonlcllike to ask him wnether he knows of any statute confining trunk lines to railroads, to navigable waters, or to any 

other means of transportation f 

The CHAIRMAN. No, sir; the Chair was simply construing the 

term in its popular sense. Mr. PAGE. I move to strike out the words "on trunk lines," so that it will read : For necessary and special facilities $500,000. 

1\Ir. HISCOCK. I make the JH>int of order on that amendment. 

The CHAIRMAN. What is the point of order made by the gentle- man from New York. 

»Ir. HISCOCK. The point of order is that the amendment changes 

existing law. 

The CHAIRMAN. Will the ~entleman from New York state 

whether there is a law now in eXJstence ·giving a right to make appropriations for necessary and special facilities on trunk lines f 

Mr. SPRINGER. In answer to that qnestion, with the permission 

of the gentleman from New York, I would refer the Chair to the 

printed report of the Postmaster-General, page 100, where, under the 

head "special facilities," he says: 

For the year ending June 30, 1882, the amount appropriated for this item was $425,000. Tbe reasons for the expenditure of this fuitd have been fully set forth in 

previous reports upon which appropriations have been made for this object each 

year since 1878. 

Therefore I assume that these appropriations have been made in 

accordance with the ex.istin~ law on the subject. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Cnair will now hear the gentleman from 

California, [.Mr. PAGE.] ' 

Mr. PAGE. I do not understand any gentleman on this floor is 

serious in maintainino- that this amendro.ent to st-rike out the words 

"on trunk lines" i~ of.noxious to the point of order. I suppose thiR 

committee can limit this appropriation to trunk lines, railroads, 

steamboat lines, or any others. And my amendment is simply to 

strike out the limitation. I do not know why it should be obnoxious to the point of order. I simply propose to strike out t.he limitation. The committee have reported a bill which provides $.500 000 

for necessary and special facilities on trunk lines. Those words l' on trunk lines" impose a limitation upon the expenditure of the money 

·-... .... __ 
1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1397 

in a certain direction. I move to take away the limitation and leave 

it in the discretion. of the PostmaRter-General to use this money upon 

any line, whether a trunk line or not. It cannot be obnoxious to the 

point of order. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Ever since 1877, I think--

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. Will the gentleman from California 

[Mr. PAGE] allow me to make a suggestj.on f 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from New York [Mr. HiscocK] 

is on t.he :floor. 

Mr. PAGE. The gentleman from New York cannot take me from 

the :floor. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thought the gentleman had concluded. 

Mr. PAGE. I want to state before I yield the floor that I shall :tsk 

the gentleman from New York, [Mr. HiscocK,] the chairman of the 

Committee on Appropriations, who raises the point of order against 

my amendment, to send to the Clerk's desk and have read the proYision of law which makes my amendment subject to his point of 

order. Unless the gentleman can find some such law, I must hold 

that his point of order is not well taken. 

.Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. Will the gentleman allow me to 

make a suggestion ' 

Mr. PAGE. I will, certainly. 

Mr. SINGLETON, ofillinois. Iwouldsuggestthatthegentleman move to further amend the paragraph by insertin~ the word ''mail" 

between the word "special" and the word "facilities." , Mr. PAGE. I have no objection to that. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. So that it will read ''for necessary 

antl special mail facilities $500,000." 

Mr. PAGE. I will accept the suggestion and modify my amendment accordingly. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Certainly sin.ce 1878 we have been accustomed 

to make appropriations in precisely the language of the clause under 

consideration. I read now from the appropriation for the current 

fiscal year : 

For necessary and special facilities on trunk lines, $425,000. 

As I have said, an appropriation in that very phraseology has been 

made in at least three annual appropriation bills. I therefore take 

the ground that this appropriation in this bill is authorized, because 

it is continuing an appropriation which has been provided for by 

law. Certainly no point has been made by any one against the 

clause in the bill, that it is repugnant to a point of order because it 

changes existing law. 

I think it has been held on repeated occasions that an annual appropriation may be made to succeed an appropriation for a particular purpose for the cunent year. It comes under this phraseology of 

the rule: 

No appropriation shall be reported in any general appropriation bill, or be in .order as an amendment thereto, for any expenditure not previously authorized by law, unless in continuation of appropriations for publioworks andsuoh objects as are nh-eady in progress. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. Will the gentleman permit me to 

a k him a question right there t 

Mr. HISCOCK. Certainly. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. I would inquire of the gentleman if a point of order was not made upon a preceding paragraph in this 

bill in relation to the Saint Louis bridge, which point was sustained 

by the Chair, although there was an appropriation for the same purpo e in the last appropriation bill, and the friends of the appropriation contended that this was but a continuing appropriation Y The 

gentleman from New York, I think, opposed that view and the Chair 

tmstained him. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I can only reply to that, that however it may have 

been decided, the item appropriating 25,000 for the Saint Louis 

bridge service is now in this appropriation bill. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. That is simply begging the question. 

Mr. HISCOCK. One word further. If the amendment of the gentleman from California shall be adopted, we will be putting it in the 

power of the Post-Office Department to apply this .special appropriation to any of the railroads of the United States. 

Mr. PAGE. Or to any other mail-route. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Yes, as the gentleman says, his amendment as he 

has modified it at the suggestion of the gentleman from illinois [Mr: 

S~GLETON] will put it in the power of the Post-Office Department 

to apply this fund to every mail-route in the United States. 

Mr. PAGE. That is my intention. 

Mr. HISCOCK. The gentleman says that is his intention. Now, 

certainly, there is no law which authorizes that; it is not in pursu- ance of any previous enactment of Congress, and it is extending the 

discretion of the Post-Office Department. 

Mr. PAGE. One word in reply to the chairman of the Committee on Appropriations, the gentleman from New York, [Mr. HiscocK.] 

It seems to me there can be no question that the amendment I have 

oftered is clearly in order. The gentleman has not sent to theClerk's 

desk to be read any law which my amendment violates. He sin1ply 

says that last year Congress appropriated $425,000 for a similar purpose. What of thatf If it does not appropriate $425,000 this year for that purpose that will be no violation of law. 

Now while I admit that we may put in a paragraph a limitation 

on the expenditure of money in a certain direction, still I claim the 

right of this House, without violating any provision of law, to change 

that direction and make it apply to an entirely di:fi'erent purpose. 

I do n.ot care to discuss the merits of my amendment on a point of 

order. When the time comes, if the Chair shall hold the amendment 

to be in order, I will, I think, give good reasons why the amendment 

should be adopted. I wait the demsion of the Chair. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I think the point of order as made is not well 

taken. The appropriation for special facilities originated in this 

way: in 1he Forty-fourth Congress the two Houses were engaged in 

a controversy as to the method of compensating railr<>ads. There was a feeling on the part of the Senate in favor of compensating by 

weight, space, and speed, it being held that the mails on certain 

lines ofrailroad ought to be canied very rapidly. 

The House disagreed entirely with that view, and for several 

months the question wa.s in dispute. The gentleman from Indiana, 

[:Mr. HoLMAN,] who had charge of the bill, was the chairman of the 

House c-onferees. TheSenatefinally abandoned the legislation which 

they had contended for, and compromised upon an appropriation of 

$350,000 for special facilities for that fiscal year. There was no legislation upon the subject except that provision in that appropriation 

bill. 

At the next session of Congress there was provided $425,000 which 

might be used by the Department for the purpose of obtaining special facilities, and we have for four years provided in the Post-Otlice 

appropriation bill a sum of money which the Postmaster-General 

might use for that purpose. Without such provision he could not 

have used a dollar of money _in that way. There is, therefore, no legislation on the subject except the provision contained each year 

in the annual appropriation bill. 

But my friend from New York says that the amendment is relieved 

from the operation of the rule because we have had during seYeral 

years past specific appropriations of this character, and thh! is iu 

pursuance of the same object. Now, 1\ir. Chairman, only the other 

day, upon a question with reference to schools for colored people in 

the Chickasaw Nation, the same argument was made by the gentle- man in charge of the bill-that we had been giving for three or four 

years appropriations for this object, and therefore such appropriations were to be fa.stened as a system upon the Government; but the 

Chair Yery properly ruled otherwise. So as to these appropriations 

for special mail facilities, Congress may or may not at any session 

make such an appropriation. This is not a continuing object, and 

therefore the argument of the gentleman from New York has no force. 

Now, 1\Ir. Chairman, if the original proposition is in order I do not see why the amendment is not. The truth is that neither is authorized by existing law. The proposition of the gent.leman from California is not to amend existing law. The appropriation of a given sum in tills bill for special facilities is not law; it stands outside of 

the law; and when the gentleman from California proposes to amend 

that provision by striking out a given word, his proposition is in 

order if the provision in the bill is in order. 

Mr. WHITE. I would like to ask the object of this clause. For 

what is this money to be expended f 

Mr. BLOUNT. As the language indicates, for special facilities. 

1\ir. WHITE. What are those" special facilities f" 

Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman in charge of the bill can state in 

detail where this money is to be expended. I believe a part of it is 

for special trains running out ofNew York City, and for similar facilities in various places throughout the country. It is to provide e:>...rtra 

trains, or extra speed, in order to facilitate the carrying of the mails. 

Mr. WHITE. I am obliged to the gentleman for his explanation. 

I thou~ht that was the object, but I did not know. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I cannot see, Mr. Chairman, wherein the amendment of the gentleman from California is at all out of order. I should 

not have sa1d anything on the point but for the fact that the chair- man of the Committee on Appropriations has invoked the Chair to 

hold that because three or four appropriations of this sort have been 

made during the last three or four years, therefore it,is in order for- ever to continue thi expenditure in appropriation bills. 

I am in favor of the rigid enforcement of the rule. Its operation 

may sometimes be embarrassing, but it is to the interest of gentle- men in charge of the legislation of this House and in the interest of 

the conn try that the rule should be strictly adhered to. As no point 

of order has been made upon the original proposition (a.lthough it is 

not authorized by law) the gentleman's amendment is in order be- cause it proposes to change, not any existing law, but simply a clause 

proposed for adoption in this bill. The true course for crentlemen 

who desire to 1·estrain legislation to the limitations of the Yaw woultl 

have been to have made a point of order on this clause making 

appropriations for special facilities. 

Mr. ROBL.~SON, of Ma sachusetts. I hope the gentleman will not 

base hi.s argument upon the assumption that the original appropriation is out of order, because that can hardly be sustained as a good 

point. 

Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman is no doubt thinking of his own past record on these points. He has not always been right in the 

past; bnt I aru glad he has at last got upon a sound basis. The 

present position of the gentleman is a good one, and I stand with him. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I only wanted the gentleman 

to stand in a good place ; that is, with me. 
1398 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-ROUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman has not always stood in a good 

place; he has only lately got there. 

l\Ir. HOBINSON, of Massachusetts. That is the gentleman's ver- sion. He saw the matter wrongly because he wa~ looking the other 

way. 

Mr. BLOUNT. The difference is that the gentleman's party is in 

authority here now, and was not before. 

The CHAIRMAN. Upon this point of order the Chair would not 

hold that an appropriation made in a previous appropriation bill for an object not authorized by law would be such a provision of law as would justify a subsequent House in making another appropriation 

for the same object if a point of order were made against it. But, no point of order having been made against the clause, the provision of 

which is in furtherance of a rule established by previous Congresses, 

restricting the authority of the Postmaster-General to expend money 

upon trunk lines, the Chair would at present incline to the opinion 

that to change the rule now would be in the nature of making a new law, and would therefore be obnoxious to the rule under which we are operating. 

Mr. BLOUNT. In previous cases the provision simply related to 

the appropriations contained in the bill. • The CHAIRMAN. The Uhair so understands. But this amendment, if adopted, would enlarge the discretion of the PostmasterGeneral, would make it apply not only to trunk lines but to every 

other line as well. 

Mr. PAGE. Does the Chair sustain or overrule the point of order on my amendment Y 

The CHAIRMAN. TheChairhasnotyet ruled. It is a very close 

question upon which he is very much in doubt; and he would prefer 

that the clause should be passed over for the present, to be recurred 

to hereafter, if that is the pleasure of the committee. The Chair 

would prefer to have this clause passed over informally until this 

point of order could be more closely looked into. 

1\Ir. PAGE. I have no objection to that. 

Mr. CASWELL. With the under tanding that no other amendment or proposition shall be considered. 

Mr. PAGE. Oh, no. The CHAIRMAN. That was not included in the unanimous con- sent which the Chair asked. L'i there any objection to the clause 

being passed over informally for the present, and that when it is 

again taken up no other amendment shall be in order! 

Mr. PAGE. I do not agree to that, for if the Chair holds my amendment to be out of order, I then propose to move to strike out the 

whole paragraph. 

The CHAIRMAN. There is objection to the proposition of the 

gentleman from Wisconsin. The Chair will now ask for unanimous 

consent to pass over the clause informally for the present. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. That is that it is to be passed over until the subsequent paragraph has been disposed of. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair wishes to look np authorities bearing on the question before he decides the point of order. 

1\Ir. SINGLETON, of illinois. I am asking the Chair to :fix some definite time when it is again to come up so we may be prepared. 

Some of ns may wish to look up authorities also. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will suggest then that the clause be 

passed over informally until the committee reaches the conclusion of 

the bill. 

Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinoi . That will do. 

The CHAIRMAN. 'The Chair will a k by unanimous consent this 

clause be :passed over informally until the bill has been gone through 

with, when the Committee will again recur to it for such action as may be deemed necessary. 

1\Ir. ROBESON. With all our rights reserved in reference to the 

clause. 

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly. 

1\Ir. ROBESON. I have an amendment to offer. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair hears no objection, and it is ordered 

accordingly. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

For compensation to railway post-office clerks, $1,650,000. 

Mr. 'VILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. I move in lines 62 and 63 to strike 

out $~0,000 and insert inlieuthere of $800,000; so it will read: 

For compensation to railway post-office clerks, $1,800,000. 

Mr. Chairman, the other day I said nearly all I desired to in 

regard to the compeliSation of theRe hard-worked employes. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I desire to understand whether the amendment 

:provides for other than an increase of the amount. 

The CHAIRMAN. That is all. 

Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. The amendment, Mr. Chairman, 

proposes to add to this clause for compensation of railway post-office 

clerks the sum of 150,000. My purpose, then, is to offer an amendment to the succeeding ~lanse for route agents increasing the amount 

$:.300,000, making an increase in the bill of $450,000. · On this question I have consulted the general ~nn::lrintendent of the 

railway mail service, and in order to carry these -employes np to the 

maximum of '11 1,200 and $1,400, respectively, it would require the sum of $585,270. I h:we thou~ht it better, inasmuch as we cannot chanO'e ~xisting law on ""his bi117 to leave the new appointees at 900 ~r 

$1,000, with the discretion to increase to $1,150 or $1,200 a year, to 

which the old employes would go at once. I trust, M.r. Chairman, there will be no objection to this mcrease. I am informed by the superintendent that in 1Cl76, when this proposition for economy was made-and I speak of it in no partisan sense, 

for I want to keep this question out of politics and do justice to 

thee employas-tb,at when the appropriation was reduced he called 

his division superintendent!t'iiogether and consulted them as to how 

many of the employes conld be spared. The reply was that with the 

increase of the service they could spare none but needed more. Finally they came to thl proposition, shall we discharge the e men or reassign their salaries! The conclusion wa to keep them all, 

and the result was that the e hard-worked, faithful employes expecting promotion from year to year were compelled to give up their 

$1,150 and go back to $900; but the Government economized. And 

there these men stand to-day levied upon to save money for fifty 

millions of people. 

Now, the bill agreed upon by the Committee on Appropriations increalSes the amount over last year 250,000, but there is a call now from the division superintendents f:>r three hundred new men, which 

will take the sum of $271,000 at present salarie . That is more than 

the Department will have. So, you see, there is not a dollar for the 

relief of the present well-drilled, efficient, and faithful force. They 

must drudge on. I am receiving, as we all are, daily appeals from these men. One 

wrote me the other night as follows: 

Monthly expense& of a route agent. 

Twenty datys' ?oard while onduty ......... . . ----------------. : .. ---------· $20 00 

Board for lunily. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . • . . . 16 00 

Board for self while at home............................................... 6 00 

R~om rent ........ ----- ....... ----------------------------------........... 5 00 

Wood or coaL ......... ------------------- .......... -------------........... 7 00 

Washing .......... ---- ........ -----·------ ............. -------------------- 4 00 Insurance .•.....................• ---- ...•.............. ,................... 2 00 I 

Total................................................................ 60 00 

Salary . .. . . . . . . . . . ... . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . . . . .. . . . . ... .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . •..•... .... 75 00 

Necessary expense ...... ............................. ........... ---- ----... 60 00 

Balance ........................................... :. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 00 

Leaviiig the enormous sum of fifteen dollars to buy clothing, pay doctor's bill, 

and incidental expenses. 

There you havo it, Mr. Chairman. Fifteen dollars a month after 

they have simply had that which divides civilization from barbarism, 

food and shelter. Fifteen dollars to clothe their families, educate 

their children, nurse their sick, and bury their dead. For all the 

comforts, vici situdes, and calamities of life the modest sum of 15 

per month. If these amendments are adopted they will give them 

only 13 additional per month on the average. I hope this House 

will vote that for them without a grudge. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. HISCOCK. 1\Ir. Chairman, as I understand the amendment 

proposed by the gentleman from 'Vi soon sin and now before the com- mittee, it simply contemplates to increase the amount provided for 

in the law. I do not understand that he has offered any amendment 

to change the compensation that may be paid to the mail-route mes- sengers and local agents, and therefore to the argument he has made 

for this amendment I make no reply. 

I have therefore only this to say in reference to the amendment 

pending before the corumittee, that we have given the full amount 

estimated for by the Department; and I hardly think that the com- mittee is justified in increasing an appropriation when that increase 

is not asked for by the head of the Department that has charge of 

the disbursement of the money. 

Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. Will the gentleman permit me to 

interrupt him, to say that this increase is not only approved by the 

Department, though they have a pride, I think a mist-aken one in 

this instanc-e, in keeping within the line of economy, and I think gentlemen at the head ofthe Department are in accord with this increase 

and believe it to be just. 

Mr. HISCOCK. There is this difficulty about the matter, which I 

will call the attention of the committee to: I receive, as the gentle- man from \Visconsin does, and as other gentlemen doubtless receive, numerous letters complaining of the amount of compensation of these 

employes of the Government; but where I receive one letter complaining of undue compensation for this service, I receive twenty asking an appointment to the service at the present compensation. 

1\Ir. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. 'Vill the gentleman from New 

York allow me 7 They reply, That is so; but they can get CoJ?pess- men cheap, men without a dollar's salary, to serve in this .Hou. e. The only question i , what is a fair compensation for the service t 

:Mr. HISCOCK. I do not know that the question of the gentleman 

calls for any response. 

Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. I hope not. 

Mr. HISCOCK. When Congressmen go to this Department and demand the appointment of these postal clerks and route al$ents they are met with the response, Give us more money and we w1ll employ 

them; but when the head of the Department sends in an estimate 

here and gets every dollar he asks, I ask if it is proper or wise in us to 

go beyond that, and extend the appropriation and enlarge the amount 

given for this purpo e, upon the loose talk of the men at the head of 
\ 

1882. OONGRESS!ONAL RECORD-ROUSE. i399 

the bureau in reply to these applications for places' I say I think it is 

uncalled for, and it is not vouched for by the man at the head of the 

Department, who is responsible to the people for the expe-nditure of 

the money. There is not a single membe~ o~ the Co~ttee on Appropriations who would not have been willing to giVe every dollar 

the Postmaster-General estimated for this service, and what I protest against is providing more money than the responsible head of 

the Department asks for. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. DUNNELL. I move to strike out the last word. 

M.r. SPRINGER. I have been trying to get the floor to make a point of order upon the amendment. Is it not subject to a point of 

order¥ 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks it is too lat.e now to make a point of order against it, inasmuch a-a the discussion has proceeded 

for ten minutes without objection. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I have been trying to get the floor for that purpose. · The CHAIRMAN. TheChairdid not understand the gentleman a.s makin<T the point of order. 

Mr. SPRINGER. As soon as I saw the nature of the amendment 

I endeavored to make the point of order. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair does not understand the gentleman 

from Illinois as having pressed the point of order. It is now too late, 

nnless the gentleman msists that be was unable to mako it although 

pressing the point. 

:Mr. ATKINS. It is not liable to the point of order in my judgment 

an:rhow. ~fr. BRIGGS. I hope the distinguished gentleman from Illinois 

will be permitted to take the floor. He does not very often have the 

opportunity. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will recognize the gentleman from 

Minnesota, [Mr. DUNNELL.) 

Mr. DUNNELL. Mr. Chail1Jlan, I have not consumed any of the 

time of the committee since this bUl has been before it for consideration, and although many days have elapsed, and although this bill is more immediately interesting to my constituents than any other, I 

have refrained from occupying any time of the committee upon it. 

I believe the amendment of the gentleman from Wisconsin is right, 

wholly right, eminently right, and I hope the committee will adopt 

it. I am satisfied that there are no persons in the service of the Government who better and more faithfully earn their money than the men employed in this postal service and who run upon the cars, 

whether as postal clerks or as route agents. 

There is in my own district and lapping over a little into Dakota a run of three hundred and forty miles. The agent starts at four 

o'clock in the morning, lands at l!'landreau in Dakota Territory at ten 

minutes before twelve, stops twenty minutes, turns around and goes 

back to La Crosse, making a run of six hundred and eighty miles 

w1thout rest. I wish to say that for the last five, six, eight, or ten 

years there has been an increase upon the demands of this class of ·ervice wholly out of character with the pay received, as well as ruin- ous to the health and lives of the men employed in the service. I have 

hacl ufticient experience in the House to know that there ha-a been 

gra.cluallybronghtabqutin the reductions that have been from time to 

time made here a vast increase in the severity of the service to which 

these men aresu bjected. I remember that eight or nine years ago I was informed in the Post-Office Department that ninety miles a-day were considered all that a route agent ought to run, and that ninety miles were all that could be run Without damage to the health of the man. Now there is hardly a route agent or postal clerk who does not run twice that number of miles each day. I have got so, Mr. Chairman, 

that I begin to hate the word economy. I really dislike the sound 

of that word. I have heard it talked about here so much, and thrown 

out so many t-imes in almost every debate upon this floor, that I have come to dislike the word as commonly used in public legislation. 

We need a just distribution of public money. What is required, 

let us give. What is wanted, let us vote. Let us not carry the idea 

of economy away beyond the verge of just and fair treatment of the men who serve the Government. We are not poverty-stricken as a. people. We have not an empty Treasury. We are not in want, and 

I do hope and pray that the present Republican Committee on Appropriations will not try to C8pe with their predecessors in the line of 

"retrenchment and reform." • 1\lr. WHITE. I offer what I send to the desk as an amendment to 

the amendment of the gentleman from Wisconsin, [Mr. WILLIAMS.] 

The CHAIRMAN. There is already an amendment pending to. strike out the last word. Does the gentleman from Minnesota withdraw that amendment f 

l\lr. DUNJ\TELL. I do. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amonilinent offered 

by the gentleman from Kentucky. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Add to the pending amendment the following: 

"PrO'Vided, however, That in future the general superintendent of the United 

States railway mail service shall not appoint at his pleasure any such clerks from 

Ohio, Indiana, Alabama., Mississippi, or Tennessee, nor his friends from Washing· ton City, to perform service in the State of Kentucky so long as there are of tlie 106,000 Republicans, 12,000 Greenbackers, and 17 Independents residing in that grand old Whlg State suitable persons who are willing to perform the duties imJlOSed by law." 

Mr. CASWELL. I make the point of order on that amendment. 

The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is sustained. 

Mr. WHITE. I imply desire to say in reply to the gentleman from 

Wisconsin. that the State of Kentucky would feel more interest in 

these gentlemen receiving just compensation if some of them lived in 

that State. 

1\lr. CANNON. I move to strike out the last word. 

This is not a proposition to increase the salaries of theRe clerks in 

the postal service. If my friend from "Wisconsin had had au amendment that fitted his speech, then we would have had something else 

to consider. This is simply a proposition to give $150,000 more than 

is estimated. 

Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wi<3consin. Will the gentleman allow me to 

say a word f 

Mr. CANNON. Certainly. 

Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. The gentleman from Illinois ought 

to know that the statute fixes the salaries, and this is an appropriation of money to pay them. 

Mr. CANNON. But the speech of the gentleman from Wiscon>in 

is one thing and his amendment is another. 

Now, in reply to the gentleman from Minnesota, [1\lr. Dm~""ELL,] 

who stated he was tired of this word "economy" as it had grown to 

be used, I must say that in my opinion it is a misused word, or has 

been so in the past. But, Mr. Chairman, when the Republican side 

of this House, with a Republican administration, through its Republi- can Committee on Appropriations recommends in an appropriation 

bill every dollar that was estimated for, which is $345,000 more than was appropriated for the current year for this class of service, then 

I am for that kind of economy; an<l I say very frankly that I am not 

for the economy that the gentleman speaks of, that would dump 

150,000 more than is asked for or estimated; when we are far ahead 

of what the current year carries, and when in my opinion as the serv- ' 

ice is now running we are recommending sufficient for the service of 

the coming year. 

Mr . .ANDERSON. I rise to oppose the amendment, and wish to say 

I have very great confidence indeed in the statements of the gentle- man who has just taken his seat; but if there is any principle of the 

Republican party that is greater than the principle of economy it is 

the principle of justice. I know perfectly well that in my State the men in this service are worked harder, worked longer, and paid poorer 

than any men tbat I know of in the Unite<l States service. 

1\lr. CANNON. The gentleman f.rom Kansas will understand I was not spe:tking of that matter at all. 

1\fr. ANDERSON. The committee say they have given what was estimated. But estimated by whom f By the late Postmaster-General. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I wish to ask the gentleman from Kansas a question. Is there any thing from the present Postmaster-General re vi - ing that estimate f 

1\lr. ANDERSON. I do not know whether there is or is not, and 

I do not care. I simply know this-that the gentleman who has 

charge of this service, the chief of that bureau, and who knows . something about the details of the work, recommended far more than 

the committee bring in; and for one I am willing to vote the appropriation up to the point recommended, as a matter of justice, to 

enable the Department to meet the growing interests in the West, 

such as gentlemen in the East cannot realize. · In my own district, 

where the railroad system is being rapidly extended, when we ask for 

postal facilities we cannot get them. And why! Simply because 

the Department baR not the money. 

Now, I will go as far a-a any Republican or any other man in what 

is fair and economical; but I want it distinctly understood as far as I am concerned, I wish to see jw;tice done to these men, and I wish 

furthermore to see justice done to the people who are benefited by 

your railroad service. 

Mr. WHITE. Will the gentleman allow me before he takes his 

seat to ask him whether it is not a fact that tbe superintendent of 

the railway mail service now adjusts some of. these clerks up and 

adjusts others down at his pleasure Y 

lli. ANDERSON. I do not know that to be a fact, and I doubt it 

very much. ' 

Mr. WHITE. .And whether the same injustice would not be done 

if this additional amount were appropriated Y 

1\lr. ANDERSO:N. I never heard that char<Te made before. 

Mr. HISCOCK. A great deal has beensaidhereabontMr. Thompson, the superintendent of the railway mail service. If that gentle- man has ever made an estimate in excess of the appropriation which we are now considerin~, I have never seen it; and I call the attention of the gentleman ttom Kansas to that fact. 

Mr. ANDERSON. What does the gentleman from New York sayt 

:Mr. HISCOCK. I say if Mr. Thompson, the superintendent of the 

rail way mail service, has ever made an estimate in excess of the 

amount which we have put in this bill, I have never seen it. We 

have here in the report of the Postmaster-General thee timates made 

by :Mr. Thompson, which are the basis of our bill. ~fr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. I hold in my hand estimates made 

by Mr. Thompson, which I propose to put in the RECORD. 

Mr. HISCOCK. How shall this committee make appropriations 

upon estimates which have never been submitted to Congress, but 

which have been referred to individual members and carried around 
1400 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23; 

in their pockets' Are we invited to any such feast as that under 

the cry which may be set up against the word " economy f" 

Now, I desire to say further in reference to this that in the urgent 

deficiency btll which we passed a few days ago, as the bill was re- ported t.o the Honse, was a. provision that cut down the estimates of 

the superintendent of the railway mail service. He came to your 

committee and we re-vised the item so as to increase the appropriation according to his estimate, and that estimate also was in accord- ance with his recommendation for the next :fiscal year. In no con- versation that I have had with him has he urged that a larger sum of money should be appropriated for this purpose. ~- WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. Has he stated to the Committee on Appropriations that he proposed to raise the salary of any person 

employed to the amount of one dollar f 

Mr. HISCOCK. As I understand the practice, it is to adjust the 

salary of the clerks according to the service they perform and the 

value of that service. And as I remember it, the appropriation for 

the current fiscal year was too large for the lowest class of clerks, and we transferred a part of the appropriation for the lowest class of 

clerks or agents to those of a higher grade. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. HASKELL. Probably the difficulty with the estimate and the 

difficulty that some members here are laboring under is owing to a misapprehension a-s to the manner in which the compensation of these men has been :fixed. 

The superintendent of the rail way mail service, Mr. Thompson, has 

estimated for an increase over the amount appropriated by the bill 

last year for route a,gents; but that is an estimate for an increased 

number of agents on account of new ra,ilroads and new routes. 

Now what are the facts in regard to this me:ttter f Until the Democratic party came into power in this Honse the route agents were ' paid under a provision of law which provided that they should not 

receive in exce s of 1,000 a year. 

Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman is mistaken. 

1\Ir. HASKELL. The law providin~ for route a~ents is that they 

should not be paid in excess of $1,00u a year eacll. The very :first 

appropriation bill which that party brought before Congress was so small and so meager compared with the enormous rate of increa,se of 

business throughout the 'Vest that one of two things had to be done: 

either the new railroads without postal service had to be left without 

that service, or thepayofthe employes had to be reduced below what was contemplated by law. In order to keep the service going the 

pay of the employes was reduced in some instances from 960 to 900 

per annum, and in other instances from 1,000 to 900 per annum, and on that reduction it has stood ever since. 

There has never been a time when the chief of the railway mail 

service has not asked an appropriation sufficient to pay these route 

agents the full amount allowed them by law. It is said they can be 

promoted if they show a good record for ability. These employes 

cannot be promoted on a route-agent route. Only on the railway 

post-office lines is thero any promotio1il. But on the great bnlk of the 

railway-service lines the work is performed by route agents, and 

there is no promotion for them. I have agents in my district running 

two hundred and sixty miles on a trip without rest, and yet yon pay 

them 900 a yeaJ., while they do more work than nine out of ten of 

your railway post-office clerks. But you pay the railway post-office 

c1erks from $1,200 to '1,400 a year, and you pay these route agents 

only 900 a year. Youpaytherailwaypost-office clerks all they are allowed by law to receive, and you refuse to pay these route agents 

the amount allowed them by law. This amendment will give the 

route agents what the law allows them to receive. 

1\Ir. HISCOCK. Thls amendment does no such thing. The only 

effect of the amendment is to authorize the employment of more persons. 

1\Ir. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. Certainly not. 

Mr. illSCOCK. It does not have the effect of increasing their 

compensation. 

Mr. ·wiLLIAMS, of Wisconsin. The amendment which I propose 

will increase their compensation; but the 250,000 the committee 

gives is to employ three hundred new employes. 

The question was taken upon the amendment of Mr. WILLIAMS, 

of Wisconsin; and upon a division. there were-ayes 67, noes 88. 

Before the result of the vote was announced, 

Ur. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin, called for tellers. 

Tellers were ordered; and Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin, an<l Mr. 

CASWELL were appointed. 

The committee agajn divided; and the tellers reported that there 

were-ayes 77; noes 101. 

So the amendment was not agreed to. 

Mr. BING HilL I move to amend line 62 by striking out the word 

"post-office" and inserting in lieu thereof the words rc mail service;" so that it will read "railway mail service clerks." And I desire to 

amend the three succeeding clauses by strikin? out "route agents," "mail-route messengers," and "local agents,' and inserting "railway mail service clerks." 

The CHAIRMAN. The amendment suggested by the gentleman 

to the pending clause is now in order. 

lli. BINGHAM. I would ask the gentleman from New York [Mr. 

HISCOCK] if he will accept my amendment f 

Mr. HISCOCK. My impression is that the Committee on Appropriations will consent to the amendment, but I desire to further con- sider it. 

The CHAIRMAN. The :first amendment will be read. 

The amendment was read, as follows: 

In line 62 strike out "post-office" and insert "mail ervice;" o that the clause 

will read: 

"For compensation to railway mail- ervice clerks, $1,650,000. " 

Mr. HISCOCK. I do not wish the one amendment adopted nnle 

all are adopted. 

The CHAIRMAN. This clan e alone is under consideration. Mr. HISCOCK. I trust the committee will consent to consider all 

together. As l understand it it is merely a change in the title of 

-:..he e employes which the Post-Office Department de ires. 

The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to having the amendments 

made to the several clauses as suggested f 

Mr. WILLITS. Are not these names in the law now 1\Ir. HISCOCK. I think not. 

The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to agreeing to the amendments in the several clauses as suggested f 

Mr. illSCOCK. I do not ask that the amendments be no_yv made, 

but I ask consent that they be considered in all the clauses together so that we can see how they would read if amended as proposed. 

The CHAIRMAN. The clauses win be read as proposed to be 

amended. 

The clauses as proposed to be amended were then read. 

The CHAIRMAN. Unanimous consent is asked that these amenclments may be considered together. Is there objection Y The Chair. 

hears none. l\lr. HISCOCK. I desire to ask the chairman of the Post-Office 

Committee [Mr. B~GHAM] whether he does not desire to have the e clerks classified in this bill f 

Mr. BINGHAM. No, sir; we do not ask that at all. I will state, 

in connection with the amendment, that such a provi ion has be u asked for by the Post-Office Department for the past four years. In 

the last report the general superintendent of raihmy service says: 

I would thereforerenewtherecommendationmade by my immediatepredeces or in his report for the fi cal year ended June 30, 1878, and repeated by myself in the 

reports for 1879 and 1880, that the appropriation for the payment of the railway 

mail service clerks for the fiscal yea1· ending June 30, 1883, be made in gross for 

the sum of $3,480,000. 

That the Commmittee on Appropriations has reported. 

And that it be enacted that hereafter the railway mail service clerks be divide•l 

into five classes. 

To carry out the propo ed classification the Post-Office Committee 

will report a bill. We now simply ask that in this bill the Hou e include under the one designation these several clas es: railway 

post-office clerks, route agents, local agents, and mail-route messen- gers. These amendments make no increase at all in the appropriation. 

1\Ir. CANNON. As I understand, the gentleman wishes to have the 

language of this bill conform to a law hereafter to be passed. I 

suggest to him that it will be time enough to change the language 

of our appropriations when the law has been changed. The gentleman proposes to strike out the words ''route agents" ''mail-route mes en~ers," &c., and to put in the words "railway mail service 

clerk .' Such an amendment, I undertake to say, would loove the 

service as it now stands withc·::..t an appropriation. 

1\Ir. ATKINS. Allow me to ask whether this amendment would 

not involve an increase of payf 

Mr. CANNON. It would certainly make an appropriation for a. clas of officers that have no existence under the law, and would 

fail to appropriate for the classes Qf officers that do exist. 1\Ir. WILLITS. Let me read the statute. Sectiou 4024 provide 

that "the Postmaster-General may employ as many route agents a may be necessary." "Route agents" is the title under the law. 

Then section 4025 provides that "the Postmaster-General may appoint clerks for the purpose of assorting and distributing the ma.il 

in railway po t-offices." I concur in the remark of the gentleman 

from illinois, [1\Ir. CANNO~,] that by adopting these amendment of 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania. we would make an appropriation 

for a class of officers that does not exi!rti. 

Mr. BINGHAM. The designation" mail-route messengers" h~s no existence in the Revised Statutes at all. It is simply taken from an appropri'-t.tion bill. The same remark applies to the expression 

''local agents,?' &c. 

1\Ir. CASWELL. I hope the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. 

BINGHAM] will withdraw the amendments. 

Mr. BINGHAM. Very well; upon the request of the gentleman in 

charge of the bill I withdraw these several amendments. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

For route agents ,$1,375,000. 

Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. I move to amend the clause by 

striking out the word "three" and insertin~ the word "six;" so that 

it will read, "for route acrents, $1,675,000.' 

Now, 1\lr. Chairman, whether the Committee of the Whole shall 

decide to vote this amount or not, I desire that members shall see just how the matter stands. Thesuperintendentoftherailwaymail 

service had no idea of going past his superior. Nobody had any idea 

of carrying around surreptitiously statements in his pocket. Tl\_is 

amenilinent raises the appropriation for compensation of route agents 
\ 

\ 

1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1401 

,.·300,000, and both amendments would have amounted to $4GO,OOO. 

Recognizing this as a large amount of money, I desired to be prepareel to state te the committee just what the increase consisted in, 

and sought the superintendent's statement, not in the form of an 

official recommendation, but to insure accuracy of statement and to 

avoid any possible extravaga-nce in the amount voted. And as I have 

his permission to use it in this form I will read both tables, the one applying to the preceding clause as well as to this one; which are as follows: 

Railway postal clm·ks. 

Salary. Men.J Increase per man. . 

$1,300 457 -$1~~ to r-aise to $1,400 ...........•••......•. ........•... 1, 150 487 50, to raise to 1, 200 .......•.....•.....•.....•........ 1,000 165 1 200, to raise to 1,200 ..........•............•.......... 900 2:&7 300, toraiseto 1,200 .........•.....•...........•...... 

Total. .................................•....•.•...... I 

ROUTE AGE~"TS. 

Total in- crease. 

$45,700 

24,350 

33,000 

68,100 

171,150 

1, 000 136 200, to raise to 1, 200.... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27, 200 

9 0 3 220, to raise to 1, 200. ...... ..... .... .. ••.••. .... .. . .. . 660 

960 8 240, to raise to 1, 200 .....•...........•... :.. . . . • . . . . . . 1, 920 

940 53 260, to raise to 1,200.................................. 13,780 

920 27 280,toraiseto 1,200.................................. 7,560 

900 

1

1. 210 300, to raise to 1, 200.................................. 363, 000 

TotaL............................................... 414,120 

Thus it will be seen that to raise the salaries of the postal clerks 

t.o $1,200 and $1,400 it would take $171,150. And to raise the route 

agents to the ma.ximum of $1,200 would require $414,120, or $585,270 

iu all. To be on the safe side I put the former at $150,000 and the 

latter at $300, or. 135,270 less than the superintendent's estimate. 

One gentleman asks, why notchangethelawt Is.:'ly whydoesnot 

the Post-Office Committee report a change of the law t We cannot 

change the law on this bill; such a proposition would be ruled out of 

order. But here are men engaged day anrl night in dangerous, dirty 

and exhausting labor, who by no manner of economy can save over $1!'> a month, and to do that they and their families would soon go 

")taked. They cau Bupply their families with the necessaries of life 

but any of its comforts beyond the narrowest range are out of the 

question, and when we propose to give them a small increase ofpay, 

which makes the difference between actual want and comfort, we are asked, is not this prodigalityf My God! if this be prodigality 

what shall be the name ofparsimony ¥ Pay these men a fair price. Is 

not the Government able to do that t Are not the people willing it 

should be done' Is not every body in favor of just and fair dealing, 

and are not all interested f Do not the people want their letters 

promptly Y What is the efl'ect to the business man if a valuable pack- a~e is overlooked or mislaid Y Yet there are hundreds and thousands 

ot these passing daily through these men's hands. 

My friend, the chairman of the committ<Oe, [Mr. HiscocK,] cited 

twelve star routes, where the service had been discontinued at a sa.ving of s~eme $380,000. 

Now let us stop the ltunry of star-route business awhile and o-jye 

these-faithful, intelligent employes their just and honest" dues. t?rhe 

amonnt saved will almost do it. There is no danger here. The 

money will not ue stolen. It. will not be squandered. It pays carrent 

every chtyexpenses. It goes amongthepeople. It is right. 1\lr. Chairman, itisjust. No Washington "r.iug" will beformed by this money. 

No colossal fortnne will rear its head here to corrupt or intimidate. 

No lobby will fatten or fester on this appropriation. The boys can neither cline nor wine yon, bnt they can serve you faithfu1ly and 

well and willingly. This money goes to men who breast the storm 

and work tbrou«h the night if ueecl be, though jostled at every turn 

and nearly choakcd with coal-<lnst and cinders. They are not here 

lobbying. They are there laboring. Several of them have been 

lmrued to death. Yon propose to pem~ion them or their wives and 

children. Very well! Bnt do not mock them with propositions to pension them in deatil, while you withhold from them their honest dues 

in life. I beg tile committee to consider. I do not wish to lecture 

the committee if I could; this is tileir matter rather than mine. It 

is said that tile Committee on Appropriations have allowed $250,000, 

bnt the answer to that again is that the three humlred new men needed will absorb it all and more too, and not a dollar can go to the 

relief of the old employes. These men are never heard here. The letter-carriers are, an<l I am glad of it. But why not these as well as those. I ask that they be heard, for this is what they say, and I adopt 

it as a part of my remarks: 

P£:tition to the Congress of the United States by the employes of the United States 

mail service for readjustment of salaries. 

WlH•rcas en tlte 1st clay of Angnst, 1876, lly general order the salaries of all 

ltead clerkfl were reclncecl from $1.4-00 to 1.300 per annum, anti!. the salaries of all 

secontl cle;.!:.s \Tero reducecl from $1,200 to $1,150 per annum. Wl1e1·eas on the l!it day of May, 1881, by a general order there were four grades of railway post-office clet·ks created, known as head clerks, with salaries ef $1,300; 

Recond clm·ks, with salaries or $1,150; third clerks, with slllaries of $1,000; and 

fonrth clerks, with salaries of $900 per annum. Tllat under tl1is regulation clerks are called upon to stand side by side for the same numller of hours and perform the same kind of duty, with a difference in 

their salaries varying from $150 to $250 per annum, causing unkindly feeling, sad 

tending to destroy the efficiency of the service. We call your attention to the fact that there has been no reduction under the 

late order of the salaries of clerks on any light line where the work can be per- formed lly two clerks, but that this last reduction falls upon all heavy lines where 

the work is the most severe. That on account oft he rapid increase in the quantity of mail to be distributed on the cars, and the great-er number of separations to be made in each State, it has 

become necessary to put night service on nearlv all railway post-office routes. This causes many clerks to work all night. All heavy railway post-offi~e lines either run on the Sabbath day, or work in yards. Each clerk on such Jines performs 

twenty-six days' more service than formerly. 

This reduction falls upon those least allle to bear it, by reason of the fact that 

all employes so reduced are compelled to pay a goodly portion of their sa-laries for 

maintenance while away from home on the road. That during stoTms we are called upon for extra duty, whlch greatly increases said expense. We are called upon for more rigid examinations than at any other time since the 

est.ablislunent of the service, postal clerks being called upon to commit to memory from four to six State.~. These examinations have of late taken a great portion of 

the time heretofore allowed us for rest and recreation to fit us for our severe mental 

and physical duty on the cars. . That all clerks so reduced have the extra-hazardons task of performing their 

labor on the cars, thus putting in peril life and limbs. The numerous railroad 

accidents demonstrate that this is no small risk. 

That the hom'S of actual duty on the cars have been greatly increased on nearly 

all railway post-office Jines. Considering our hours of duty, and the risk of life, 

the employes in tile ra.il way mail service are the poorest paid of any branch of the 

Government sernce. We call your attention to the rapid advance in the price of nearly all articles of 

food, clothing, also of bouse rents and fuel. In view of the foregoing facts, we humbly, but most earnestly petition your honorable body to re-establish the former 

salaries of employes in tbls important branch of the Government service, namely, $1,400 per annum for bead clerks, and a uniform salary of $1,200 per annum for all 

second clerks who shall have passed the necessary ~»mminatlons. That in the case of new appointments to the regular Post-Office service, or ti·ansfers of route agents to the re~ar Post-Office service, said clerks shall receive not less than 

$1,009 for the first year. That if said clerks shall have passed the necessary ex- aminations, they shall, after the first year, receive not less than $1,200 per annum. We submit to your honorable body this our humble petition, trusting that it will meet with your approval, and that action will be taken at once. 

0. A. HUNT, W. P. MORSE, 

NORMAN PERKINS, S. G. SW .AIN, 

J. M. GRAHAM, R. .A. LODD, 

J. C. HARLOW, L. L. OWEN, I. J. PINNOCK, GEO. BRADFORD, 

C. F. H.A WLEY, CH.A.S. J. COOPE.R, 

GEO. S. RACE, S. CLEMONS, ED . .A. CLARK, R. V .AN HOUTEN, 

C. R. WOOLTON, C. W. HID3BELL, 

S. P. BRANNON, .ALBERT. S. FROST, 

.A. C. BUFFINGTO:N, WM . .A. WALKER, 

CHAS. F. HALL, W. G. TAYLOR, 

R. F. SAYTON, :F. P. SMITH, 

.A. W. SANBORN, GEO. RUSHTON, 

GEORGE W. ESTOVER, ROBT. HAST REITER, M. C. RUSSELL, W. H. SLY, J. T. BEACH, M. W ACHENHEIMER, 

C. P. RAWSON, E . .A. JONES, 

WILLARD M. SMITH, WM. M. MITCHELL, 

.A. H. RICE, F. P. MORGAN, 

WM.BELL, 

F. R. DENHAM. 

GEORGE C. DEETERICK. 

GEO. KEMPER, ED. ROGERS, 

J. C. PARKS, H. H. WILSON, 

E. W. PARSONS, F. SUTTON, 

S. 0. PINCKETT, 

C. L. SHAFFER, 

(Jhicago and La Orosse Railway post-o.ffiu. 

DAVID W. YOUNG, J. W.HOWE. 

N. FLANSBURG, L. E. COLE, 

A. F. CAMPBELL, T. 0. STEW .ART, 

A. R. BARNES, GEO. W. DUFFUS, PHILIP M. COATES, 

J. H. WE.A. VER, 

FRANK P. HOLLISTER, 

Chicago and Burlington Railway post-office. 

B. J. SUMMERFIELD, 

J. STEARNS SMITH, 

G. S.EDDY, 

C. E. BARRY, 

ahicago and Cedar Rapids Railway post-o.ffiu. 

S. F. CHAMPION. Detroit and Chicago Railway post-o.ffiu. 

GEO. W. BE~TEDICT, Chicago and La Orosse Railway post-ojfice. 

C . .A. GUTHRIE, Chicago and-Burlingtcm Railway post-office. W. B. STEWARD, Chicago, Foreston and Dubuque Railway post-ojftce. GEO. A. WEBSTER. FRED. WHEAT, Chicago and DUbuque. 

G. K. YOUNG, Chicago and CBd.ar Rapids. 

C. E. SLOCUM, Chicago and Burlington,. GEO. L. DORR, Toledo and Burlington Railway post-office. 

J. L. HIBBARD. Chicago and Dultuque Railway post-o.ffiu. F. W. BRIS'l'OL. Chicago and Iowa City Rai1way post-ojfice. 

0. H. P. McDOWELL, Chicago and Saint Louis Railway post-office, (night line.) W. W. CAMERON, .Toledo and Chicago Railway post-ojfice. FRED. W. DICKHUT, La Fayette and Quincy Railway post-ojfice. 

A. W. SAYLES, Chicago and Saint Louis Railway post-ojfice, (day line.) H. J. SKEELS. La Fayette and Quincy Railway post-ojfice. W. S. BEST, Chicago, Foresto-n and DUbuque Railway post-ojfice. 

J. R. HARDING, Chicago and Dubu~ue Railway post-ojfice. J. A. MATHEWS, Chicago and Bltrltngton Railway post-ojfice. B. H. SUNDERLAND, Chicapo and Dubuque Railway post-ojfice. BEN. F. TUFTS. Chicago and Iowa OitlJ Railway post-ojftce. 0. M. WELCH, Chicago, Foreston and Dubuque Railway post-o.ffi..ce. 

G. R. GLENN, Chicago and Saint Louis Railway post-ojfice,1mght line.) E. L. '\VEST, Gil. and Spring., agent. J. F. EASTIN, Chicago a.nd Saint Louis Railway post-ojfice. J. H. CLARK, Chicago and Saint Loui8 Railway post·o.lfice, (night line.) J. W. LILLIS, Chicago and Saint Louis Railway post-office. 

Q. H. CHAPIN, La Fayette arAl Quincy Railway post-ojftce. H. S. MORGRIDGE, Chicago and Iowa City Railway post-office. 

C. E. CASE, Chicago and Iowa City Railway post-ojfice. WM. Z. TOUSLEY, Chicago and Saint Louis Railway post-o.ffiu. J. E. HODGES, Chicago and Central Railway post-ojf.ce. J. \V. PE'I''l'lT, Chicago and Iowa City Railway post-ojfice. A. L. WHEELER, Chicago and Saint Louis Railway post-ojfice, (night line.) WM:. H. PENN, Chicago and Iowa City Railway post-otfice. H. N. DANIELS, Chicago, Foreston and Dubuque Railway post-o.ffwe. 

C. CASE, Chicago and Iowa City Railway post-ojfice. 
1402 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-ROUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

So, Ur. Chairm.w, if I have accomplished nothing more, I hope 

the story of these men can be heard and heeded. They have no voice 

here, but the voice of justice is mighty, and it will never die. 

[Here the hammer fell.] . .Mr. SPRINGER. Is it in time to make a point of order f 

The CHAIRMAN. It i8 too late. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I did not know before what it was. Mr. WILLITS. .Mr. Chairman, this amendment does not involve 

any change of law whatever, as I understand it. The law as it 

stands is ·as follows: 

SF.c. 40:!4. The Postmaster-General may employ a'l many route agents as may be 

necessary for the prompt and safe transportation of the mail, each of whom shall 

be paid. out of the appropriation for transportation of the mail, a salary at the rate of not less than $900 nor more than $1,200 a year each. · 

According to the table read by the gentleman from Wisconsin, 

nearly all these route agents are paid a sum not exceeding $900 or $1,000 a year. If you make an additional appropriation of money, 

t-he superintendent may appoint (we will say) five hundred at 900, 

ftve hundred at $1,000, and grade them up to 1,200 a year. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I think I ought to say a single word in reply to 

the gentleman from Wisconsin. He certainly misunderstood me if 

he says or intimates I charged he carried around in his pockets any 

communication he had received from the Department surreptitiously. 

I did not intend to make any such charge, and am quite sure I did 

not. 

1\Ir. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin. · We can have no difficulty about 

that. 

l\Ir. HISCOCK. The point I was trying to impress upon this com- mittee, and especially upon those who are on this side, was this: 

that when we have given--

l\1ESSAGE FROM THE SE.t.~ATE. 

The committee informally rose, and the Speaker having taken the 

chair, ames age was received from the Senate, by Mr. SYMPSON, one of its clerks, announcing the passage of joint resolution {S. No. 41) 

authorizing the Secretary of War to issue rations for the relief of 

destitute persons in the district overflowed by the Mississippi River, 

in which concurrence was requested. 

POST-OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL. 

The Committee of the Whole resumed its session. 

Mr. HISCOCK. The point I was tryin~, Mr. Chairman, to impress 

upon the committee, and especially this s1de, was that JVhen we have 

given every dollar the superintendent of the railway mail service 

has recommended to Congress, when our party friends and a man for 

whom we are responsible, when we have given all the PostmasterGeneral is willing to recommend to Congres , a Republican and in 

sympathy-with this side, we have gone far enough. And the words 

chn.rging the Committee on Appropriations with parsimony, in my 

judgment, are ill-timed. If we stand back of the Department that we are responsible for, we have gone far enough. And I think I am j nstified in appealing to gentlemen on this siue of the committee not 

to allow themselves by the impassioned eloquence of the gentleman 

from Wisconsin to be carried beyond the line of propriety and far 

ahead of ~here the Postmaster-General has asked us to go. 

The question was taken; and there were-ayes 63, noes 83. 

So the amendment of Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin, was disagreed to. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

For local agents, $175,000. 

Mr. DIBRELL. I move to add the following: 

Six hundred dollars of which shall be paid to an assistant transfer agent at Chattanooga, Tennessee. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I make the point of order that changes existing 

bw. There i11 110 law providing for such an office. 

Mr. DIBRE.!JL. It does not create a new office, but only directs 

l1ow the money shall be expended; nor does it increase this appropria.tion. The transfer agent at Chattanooga works from six o'clock 

in the m<Yrning till twelve at night, and he should have this assistant. 

Mr. HISCOCK. It is a change of law and increases the service. 

The CHAIRMAN. The amendment is obnoxious to the rule and is 

not in order. _ 

Mr. GUNTER. · I move that the committee rise. 

.Mr. HISCOCK. We can in a little while get through with what 

remains of the bill except the clause reserved, and I hope we will 

do it. 

Mr. GUNTER. A joint resolution has passed the Senate giving _ relief to our citizens who are suffering from overflow of the Mis..c:;issippi, and I wish to get into the House to take it up and pass it. 

The committee refused to rise. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

For mail locks and keys, $25,000. 

lr. VANCE. I move to add as follows: 

For supplying the smaller post-offices of the United States not already furnished 

witl letter-balances or scales for weighing mail matter, the sum of$20,000. 

Mr. CASWELL. I make the point of order upon that amendment, 

hnt am willing to bear the gentleman from North Carolina. 

Mr. VANCE. I hope the gentleman will reserve the point of order. 

Mr. CASWELL. Very well. 

:Mr. VANCE. Mr. Chairman, there are 10,000 post-offices in the 

United States not supplied with balances and scales for weighing 

postal matter. I have a letter here from the Postmaster-General, 

addressed to the chairman of the Committee on the Po t-Office and 

Post-Roads, in reference to this matter, which I send to the.Clerk's 

de k to be read. 

Mr. CASWELL. I hope the gentleman will allow it to be inserted 

in the RECORD without readina. 

Mr. VANCE. Very well. I 'have no objection to that. I wish to 

say, sir, that the law requires the postma-sters to be ab olutely accu- rate in reference to the cb~~es for postage; but especially on registered letter packages, and it a less charge is made on such matter 

than the law requires, the postmaster is responsible for the deficiency; and postmasters are required in their settlements with the 

Department to forward the amounts of such undercharge. Major 

Rhodes reported, as will be seen in the report of the Postmaster-General, that there were over two hundred dollars a month collected from 

small offices in that way. I think it unjust, sir, that these men should 

be required to pay out for what they have no means of remedying, 

because they are not allowed these scales and have no means of ascer- taining the proper weight. This is a simple act of justice. Those 

po tmasters throughout the country who are able to pay for scales 

have them furnished to them, while those who are not able to purchase have been heretofore refused by the Post-Office Department. 

The Postmaster-General says the scales ought to be furnished, 

Major Rhodes, in charge of that part of the Department which supplies blanks, says that they ought to be furnished, and I hope there 

will be no objection to this amendment. I will incorporate the letter to which I have referred with my remarks. 

The letter is as follows : POST-OFFICE DEPART)!]Ll'IT, 

Washington, D. 0., February 20, 1882. 

Sm: I have the honor to call your attention to the report of the superinbmdent 

of the blank agency upon the operations of his office for the fiscal year ending 

June 30, 1881, found upon pages 461-463 inclusive of the report of the PostmasterGeneral for 1881. 

It will be seen from this report that at lea.'!t 10,000 of the smaller offices of the 

United States are unsupplied with letter-balances or scales, and are therefore un- able to accurately rate the poStage upon matter mailed at their offices. In consequence of this inability to properly x-ate up the postageJ registered mat- ter is sent from their offices without full prepayment as required oy law and regu · lations; and when cases of this kind are reported to the Department, the post- master is requi.J:ed to remit the deficiency of postage in uncanceled postage- tamps to the Department. 

The amount thus collected is estimated at $200 a month, which, besides the cost of collectinj!:, may be considered an unpleasant ~,>enalty against postma ters who execute therr offices according to the supplies furnished by the Department, greatly more to the accommodation of the public than to their own private advanta~e. 

It seems no more than just that where the po t-'11 business at any locality IS sufficient to warrant the establishment of a post-office the Department should a nme 

~~~3~t~th: b~=~e~;~i.~h~flc~~tmaster with the necessary supplies to properly 

I therefore recommend that an addition of $20,000 be made to the present appropriation of $15,000, making a total of$35,000, for the purchase of letter-balance~:~ ami 

scales for the next fiscal year. It is believed that with this additional appropriation the Department will be 

able to supply these postmasters, who have not received the~, with letter-balances 

for the purpose of properly rating matter mailed _at their offices. 

Very respectfully, 

llon. H. H. BINGHAM, 

T. 0. HOWE, 

Postmaster-Gene red. 

Chairman Committee on the Post-Ojfice and Post-Roads, 

House of Representatives, Washington, D. 0. 

1\!r. CASWELL. I must insist upon the point of order. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair sustains the point of order. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

For mail-bags and man-catchers, $200~000; of which sum $9,000 may be used for 

the purchase of packing-trunks for the transportation of registered letters. 

1\!r. SINGLETON, of Illinois. I move to strike out the last clause 

which has been read; that portion of line 73 which relates to packing-trunks. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendment of the 

gentleman from Illinois. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

Strike out in line 73, after the word 11 dollars" where it occurs the first time, the 

words " of which sum $9,000 may be used for the pw·chase of packing-trunks for 

the transportation of registered letters." 

1\!r. SINGLETON, of Illinois. I am not able to comprehend exactly 

the object of this appropriation. I do not understand it; perhaps 

the honorable chairman of the committee may explain it to me and 

show why this is necessary. For myself, I cannot tmderstand why 

trunks for the transportation of registered letters should be provided, 

and not for the transportation of other letters. Why they are not as 

safe (these registered letters) in the ordinary bags that are provide(l 

for the transportation of the mail generally as other mail matter is 

somethina that I am unable to see. ~!r. CASWELL. In reply to the gentleman from illinois I will 

say that this is for through registered packages, so that they may not 

be overhauled or rereceipted for while in transit. The PostmasterGeneral has asked for it, and I see no reason for not granting it. It 

is certainly a measure of safety in the transportation of registered 

packages. 

f 

l 
\ 

t 

1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1403 

The CHAilll\IAN. The question is on the motion of the gentle- man from Illinois, to strike out the clause just read. 

The amendment was not agreed to. 

OFFICE OF THE THIRD ASSISTANT POSTMASTER-GEXERAL. 

The Clerk read as follows : For mannfactnre of adhesive 'Postage-stamps, of official stamps, and ofnews- paper and periodical stamps, $109,400. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I offer the following amendment. 

Mr . .MlLLS. I hope the gentleman will allow the committee to rise. 

Mr. DUJ\TNELL. Let us get through with the bill. 

The CHAIRMAN. The ()Jerk will report the amendment of the 

gentleman from Illinois. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Amend line 79 by striking out the words '' all official stAmps," and line 80 by 

striking out the words" four hunclred," and inserting at the end of line 80 the following: . " And hereafter no official st-amps shall be manufactured or supplied t{) any of 

the Departments, or 1;() any officer of' the United States, but all oorrespondence on official business shall be transacted in penalty envelopes." 

Mr. CASWELL. I desire to reserve the point of order on that 

amendment ; and if the gentleman from Illinois will yield to me, I 

will move that the committee now rise. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I will yield for that purpose. 

Mr. CASWELL. I move th"at the committee now rise. 

The motion was agreed to; and the Speaker having resumed the 

chair, l\fr. CALKINS reported that the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union having had under consideration the bill (H. 

R. No. 3548) making appropriations for the service of the Post-Office 

Department for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1883, and for other purposes, had come to no resolution thereon. 

El'\"'ROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

1\fr. ALDRICH, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported 

that they had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles ; when the Speaker signed the same: An act (IL R. No. 3~10) in reference to the trustees of the Lincoln Monument Association; and 

An act (H. R. No. 2944) authorizing the Lancaster National Bank 

of Lancaster, Massachusetts, to change its location and name. 

RELIEF FOR SUFFERERS BY RECE....."'I"T OVERFLOWS OF MISSISSIPPI RIVER. 

Mr. KING. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that Senate 

joint resolution (S. No. 41) for the relief of destitute persons in the 

district overflowed by the Mississippi River be taken from the Speaker's table and put upon its passage at the present time. 

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read the title of the joint resolution. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

.A. joint resolution (S. R. No. 41) authorizing the Secretary of War to issue rations 

for the relief of destitut-e persons in the district overflowed by the Mississippi River. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the present consideration of 

the resolution t 

Mr. HAZELTON. Let it be read. 

The Clerk read as follows : Resolved, &c., That the !'<um of $100,000 is hereby appropriated, of which sum so much as is necessary shall be used b~ the Secretary of War in the purchase and 

distribution of subsistence stores to aid in the relief of destitute persons in the district overflowed by the Mi.ssissi;ppi River and its tributaries; and he is authorized w co-operate with the authorities in the several States of which such district is a part in making distribution of the same. 

There beu1g no objectiOn, the joint resolution was taken from the 

Speaker's table, read three times, a.nd passed. 

Mr. KING moved to reconsider the vote by which the joint resolution was pa.ssed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. , The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. SPARKS. I desire to introduce a bill for reference. 

Several members called for the regular order. 

Mr. li.TEAL. I move that the House now take a recess. The SPEAKER. Under a previous order of the House, if the mo- tion for a recess shall now prevail, the House will again meet at half 

past seven o'clock. 

Mr. HISCOCK. What is the order-of business for this evening f 

The SPEAKER. The order for this evening would be the consideration of the DistJ:ict code, no other business to be transacted. 

Mr. HAZELTON. That is all right. 

The question being taken on Mr. NEAL's motion, it w~ agreed to. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York [Mr. CAMP] will 

take the chair at the evening session as Speaker p1·o tmnpm·e. 

The result of the vote was then annomroed; and accordingly (at 

five o'clock and three minutes p. m.) the House took a. recess until 

half past seven o'clock p.m. 

EVE:NING SESSION. 

The recess ha vin~ expired, the House reassembled at half past seven o'clock p.m., .Mr. tJAMP in the chair as Speaker pro tempm·e. 

DISTRICT MUNICIPAL CODE. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. By special order of the House the only 

business to be transacted this evening is the further consideration 

ofthe bill (H. R. No. 1295) to establish a municipal code for the 

District of Columbia. The Clerk will .proceed with the readin~ of 

the bill. 

The Clerk resumed the reading of the bill, beginning with chapter 3, "the listing of personal property." The following section was read: 

SEc. 150. When any person shall have been prevented from making or yeryifying. the inventory of property for taxation above provided for, by sickness or aosence, and the assessor shall have made a statement for him, he may, at any time before 

the assessment of taxes thereon, make, verify, and file with the treasurer the proper inventory, but in such case, before the treasurer shall receive the same, the pex·son making it must add to theordina~ affidavit the further statement that his failure ro give to the assessor the required mventory was occasioned by his absence or sick- ness; and on the filing of such inventory the treasurer shall correct the return made by the assessor. 

l\f.r. PAYSON. I would like to inquire of the gentleman from Ohio 

whether the word" treasurer," in the eleventh line, should not be 

''auditor." 

.l\ir. NEAL. The word "treasurer" occurs three times in that sec- tion. In all those places it should be "auditor." 

The SPEAKERp1·o tempo1'e. If there be no objection, the amendment will be made. 

Mr. HOLMAN. What is the amendment f 

The SPEAKER pro temp(YI'e. The substitution of the word. "auditor" for the word "trea.surer." 

Mr. NEAL. The office of treasurer, as I stated, has been abolished. 

There being no objection, the word "auditor" was substituted for 

the word ''treasurer" wherever it occurred in the section. The same substitution was subsequently made in sections151, 153, and 155. 

The Clerk continued the reading of the bill to the close of section 

171. 

Mr. HOGE. With the consent of the House I should like to recur to section 160. 

There was no objection. 

Section 168 was read, as follows : 

If any -person who shall be seized of lands as tenant by courtesy or in dower, or who shall be seized of lands for life, or in right of his wife, shall neglect to pay the taxes thereon until such lands shall be sold for the payment of the taxes, and shall not within one year thereafter redeem the same according ro law, such :person shall forfeit to the person next entitled to said lands in remainder or reversion, all 

the estate which he, so neglecting as aforesaid, may have in said lands. And the 

remainder-man or reversioner may redeem the said lands in the same manner that ot.ber lands may be redeemed which have been sold for taxes. 

Mr. HOGE. I move to strike out the last word. 

It strikes me t,hat that is a very extraordinary provision, not for 

the enforcement of the payment oftaxespreeisely, but for the redemption of lands which have been sold for taxes. This section provides: 

If any person who shall be seized oflands as tenant by courtesy or in dower, or who shall be seized of lands for life, or in right of his wife, shall neglect ro pay the taxes thereon until such lands shall be sold for the payment of the taxes, and shall not within one year thereafter redeem the same acoorrun~ to law, such person shall 

forfeit to the person next entitled to said lands in remamder or reversion, all the estate which be, so neglecting as aforesaid, may have in said lands. 

I understand the effect of that provision to be that as a penalty for 

having failecl to pay the taxes, and permitting the land to be sold 

because of default and then not redeeming within the time prescribefl, the estate which the person neglecting to do this may have 

in said lands shall by the opora.tion of this section determine, and 

the party in remainder by simply coming forward and redeeming, 

after the lands have been sold, after the proceeds of the sale have 

gone to discharge the tax, may obtain the estate. The failure toredeem within twelve months shall forfeit the estate of the tenant 

by courte~y or in dower, and thereupon by the mere operation of the 

section and the enforcement of the collection of taxes, the whole 

character of the title is changed, the tenure by which the estate is 

held terminates, and the remamder-man comes into possession. 

Now, the question I desire to ask my friend from Ohio [Mr. NEAL] 

is whether it is not rather extraordinary that an entire change in the 

whole doctrine of the law of real property should be effected by a single provision in the chapter on the means of collecting taxes on real property; whether it was intended this should be the effect, and 

whether it may not be that very serious results may follow from permittjng by accident property which is held by a tenant by courtesy or in dower being sold for taxes and not being redeemed within the 

proper time f I think, sir, it demands a little more consideration than we have been giving to the rest of this chapter, and I doubt very 

much indeed whether the whole section should not be expunged, so that the provision made here for the payment of taxes should not go 

to the extent of affecting the titles and producing very serious results 

which have not been thought of. 

Mr. NEAL. I may state that this is the law as it is now and has 

been for a great many years in the State of Ohio. It has never been 

known, so far as I am aware,_ to work any particular hardship there. 

The object is to compel persons having estates JJy courtesy or in 

dower, &c., in real property, to pay their taxes promptly. Theremainder man or the reversioner has a right to demand a statement aa to this. He is the one interested. If you do not make provisions which are stringent in their character the person holding the par- ticular estate will be careless about it, the taxes will grow from year 

to year, the penalties will be piled up, ~nd finally the particular 
1404 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

estate will determine, and then the remainder-man or the reversioner 

wi IJ ue cornpelletl to pay all the accumulated taxes in order to redeem 

his vroperty, taxes which have not been paid by the person holding 

the particular estate. It il:l not worth while to talk about mercy or charity or anything 

ofthat sort in the drafting a tax law. Thelawofnecessitymustbe 

stringent in its provlliions, otherwise taxes will not be paid and the 

Government cannot go on. Yon may denounce it as Draconic in its 

character, if yon please; I care not. I hold that no provision can be too stringent which compels the payment of taxes, for the reason that good citizens always pay taxes that are honestly and fairly 

levied and a e ed, while it is only the bad citizen or the careless or indifferent citizen who refuses to pay such taxes. 

As I said at the out-set, this clause is copied verbatim from the Ohio 

law in regard to taxation. That law was revised by commissioners 

appointed bythegovernorofthat State, whospentseveralyearsatthe 

work. They had before them all the laws upon taxation of other 

States, so that they could determine what was the best method to 

l e adopted for the assessment and collection of taxes. 

I think my friend from West Vir<Yinia, [:M.r. HOGE, 1 if he will con- sider this matter thoughtfully, will come to the conclusion that yon 

cannot make a provision much too stringent in cases of this character. 

What is this provision Y It permits one year to roll around before 

the property becomes deHnquent. Then the tax of the second year is 

added to it, and then the property becomes delinquent, and is sold 

for the taxes. Then if after a period of one year from the sale of 

the property for taxes the remainder-man or reversioner or ten:mt 

uy dower or uy courtesy allows the taxes still to be piled up, we then say that he t~hall forfeit his right and the person next in suc- <:e ion shall have the right to redeem the property. 

Suppo. e a woman dies leaving her husband tenant by courtesy, 

;tnil perhaps with some step-children. That husband can go on year 

after year, if you do not have a provision of this character, allowing 

tax after tax to be assessed and piled up on that property; and finally, 

when they have accumulated to such an extent that he thinks it is 

not worth while to redeem it, he allows the property to be sold and 

to pa s into tho hands of other persons, and after his death then these 

heirs can come in and redeem it. 

I think if the gentleman from West Virginia will consider this mattor a little more thoroughly he will come to the conclusion that these 

provisions are not too stringent to accomplish the object which is 

sought to be accomplished. ' 

Mr. HOGE. If the gentleman will give me his attention for a mo- ment. 

MJ:. NEAL. Certainly. 

l\1r. HOGE. I ask him what is the meaning of this language in 

the section, "shall neglect to pay the taxes thereon until such l:mds 

shall be sold for the payment of the taxe ." Sold to whom' 

Mr. NEAL. I would suggest to the gentleman that if he desires 

to propose any amendment, we pass over this section informally un- til we come to consider chapter 5, which shows how property is to be 

sold for delinquent taxes. 

l\1r. HOGE. Very well. 

1\lr. :!\TEAL. Then if he desires it, we can recur to this section 

again, if there is no objection. 

The SPEAKER pro temp01·e. If there is no objection section 168 

will be reserved for future consideration. 

There was no objection. 

The Clerk resumed the reading of the bill, and read the following: 

CHA.PTRR V. 

DELINQUENT BALES. 

SEC. 172. It shall be the duty of the collector of taxes in said District to :prepare a complete list of all taxes on real pro:perty upon which the same are leVled, m arrears on the 1st day of July annually, mcludirig all taxes due to the late cor- porations of Washington City, Georgetown, levy court, and the District of Col- urn bia; and he shall, within fifteen days thereafter, publish the same, with a notice 

of sale, in a pamphlet of which not less than 5,000 copies shall be printed for ci{-

f'ulation; and it shall be the duty of said collector of taxes to give notice, by ad· ~erti<;ing in the rei!Ular issue of two da.ily newspapers published in said District 

twice a week for tliree successive weeks, tha.t said pamphlet ha been printed and 

that a. copy thereof will be delivered to any tax-payer applying therefor at the 

office of said tax-collector; and that if the taxes due, together with the penalties and costs that may have aoorued thereon, shall not be prud prior to the day named 

for sale. the property will be sold by the said collector at public auction at the 

oflice of said collector in the city of Washington, on the first Tuesday of October 

following, and each secular day thereafter nntil all is sold, at a fixed hour, between 

the hours of ten o'clock in the forenoon and four o'clock in the afternoon of said 

clays, to the highest bidder or bidders~ 

l\1r. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I desire to have the attention 

of the gentleman from Ohio for a moment. 

Mr. NEAL. Certainly. 

1\Ir. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I wish to call the attention 

of the gentleman to the langua(J'e of the second and third lines of 

this section 172: "A complete list of all taxes on real property" "in arrears on the 1st day of July annually." Where is the pro- vision that determines whether the taxes are in arrears or not 'r 

That is, how far must they be in arrears to go into that list Y An answer to that question will also assist in answering the question 

asked by the ~entleman from West Virginia [1\!r. HOGE] a moment 

ago; it will g.tve us some light on that subject. Is it taxes for the 

current year or for prior years! 

Mr. TAYLOR. Section 16:~ will answer that question. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I am told that section 163 will . define what are delinq nent taxes ; I suppose that portion which reads as follows: 

If one-half of the tax annually levied upon the real and personal property taxed 

shall not be paid before the 1st day of December, in each year, said mstallment 

shall thereupon be in an-ears and delinquent, &c. 

If myfriend from Ohio [111r. NEAL] can spare ·a mo~ent to follow me--

l\1r. TAYLOR. Look farther on in section 163, lines 15 anc116. 

1\lr. ROBINSON, of 1\lassachu etts. Well, what I would like to 

draw out is this: How long a.fter the assessment of the tax does that 

tax stand in a position to be held in arrears! How long a time is 

there between the as essme111.t of the tax and the time when there is 

authority to sell the property for delinquency f 

l\1r. NEAL. The taxes are asses ed in :May, and the first installment is payable on the 1st of November. 

1\lr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Of the same year ' 

Mr. NEAL. Of the same year; and the second installment is payable the May following. If those installments are not paid by the 

1st of July, tb,en they are in arrears and yon can add to them the 

penalties, the interest, and tho other taxes that have beco-me due at 

that time. In other words, there is a year ::md a half of taxes that 

may be called delinquent taxes. 

Mr. CASSIDY. And they become delinquent the June followingf 

Mr. NEAL. Ye, the Juno following the time the second installment is due. 

1\Ir. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Then there would be about a year and a h..'tlf after tho tax is as essed before it becomes delinquent. 

l\1r. NEAL. Ye, sir. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. That is what I wanted t<r 

draw out. 

Tho Clerk read as follows: 

SE<'. 182. On or before the first Monday of November, 1882, the collector shall prepare a list of all lands which ma.y have been bid off a.t ~tny tax sale, und~r any law 

authorizing such sales, :tt a period more tha.n two years prior to said first Monday of November, and shall proceed to advertise and dispose of the s!Ulle as is provided 

in the :pl'eceding sectio!Hor the sale of forfeited lands; and all the provisions of the 

preceiling section as to the sale, execution of deed, character of the title acquired, 

and redemption upon the removal of dis~~>bilities shall be applicable to sales Illllde 

hereunder. 

Mr. NEAL. I think that in the third line of this section there is an omis ion. After the words "lands which may have been bid off" 

the words'' by the District of Columbia" should be inserted. I move that amendment. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I desire to call the attention 

of the gentlemn.n from Ohio to the thirtieth line of section 181 of 

page 69. I see that this language differs from that of a prior section 

in re~ard to redemptions in the fact that this cln.use does not except 

married women. Now, I want to call the attention of the gentleman 

to this, so that it may be amended hereafter, if it be thought desirable. 

1\lr. NEAL. The language in section 181 is "minors and other 

persons under legal disability." 

?t1r. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. But a prior section says, 

"minors and other persons under legal disability, except married 

women." Did the gentleman design to have the language different 

in this place f 

1\!r. NEAL. Well, Iwilllookatthat, and will ask leave to go back 

if it should be found that there is any omis ion. 

l\1r. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. It seems to me that this language in section 179 is not very well chosen. It reads, " minors and 

other persons under legal disability, except married women." Now, 

married women may be under the disability of coverture, and also 

under other legal disability. Of course, under such language as this, 

they would not have the benefit of the removal of their other legal 

disability. 

Mr. NEAL. Well, I suggest to the gentleman that we will examine 

that and if we find there is an incongruity we will return to it. 

1\lr. ROBINSON, of Ma-ssachusetts. I do not press the point now. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Unanimous consent is asked that this 

part of the bill be passed over informally to be returned to hereafter. 

The Chair hears no objection. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

SEC. 189. CommercioJ.agents shall pay $200 annually. Every person whose busi· ness it is to sell or offer for sale, or solicit orders for sale of goods, wares, or mer· chandise, by sample, catalogue, or description, whether owner or agent, shall be 

regarded as a commercial agent. · 

Mr. SKINNER. I would like to inquire whether, if a section be 

allowed to pass now it is implied that th~re is no objection to it, so that it cannot be amended hereafter'r 

J.):r. NEAL. Yes, unless the section is specially reserved. 

Mr. SKINNER. Then, Mr. Chairman, I would like to have the gentleman in charge of this bill explain the principle upon which com- mercial travelers are taxed in the District of Columbia, while so far as my knowledge goes they are taxed nowhere else. 

A MEMBER. They are in Baltimore. 

{ 
. 

1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1405 

1\Ir. SKINNER. Now, by this bill a commercial agent who sells 

merchandise in the District of Columbia by sample, catalogue, or otherwise is compelled to pay a license of $200. I find by looking over the subsequent sections that wholesale dealers in distilled and 

fermenteclliquors have to pay a license of only $200; that wholesale 

dealers in malt liquors have to pay only $100 license; that proprietors of bar-rooms, sample-rooms, and tippling-houses are required to 

pay only $250 annually. I find also that proprietors of bowling-alleys 

)lay $10 an alley; proprietors of theaters a license of $150. There may 

be a sufficient rea ·on why commercial travelers should be taxed here 

while they are not generally taxed elsewhere, but I know there is 

great complaint in this regard. The matter can perhaps be satisfactorily explained. If so, I shall be very happy to hear the explanation and to support the bill. 

M1-. HASKELL. I move to strike out the pending section. I do 

not know whether it is the habit in any other cities to charge com- mercial travelers a license fee for the privilege of soliciting orders. 

If so, jt is a barbarous practice wherever it may exist; it is against 

al'l commercial law and commercial eqttity. But if such a tax were eYer legitimate anywhere, it certainly is not so in the District of 

Columbia, where-the people of the United .States pay one-half the 

xpenses of the city o-overnment. If the business men of the United 

States who are taxed to support the government of this city do not 

pay enough in that way, I insist that some other means ought to be 

employed to make up the deficiency, rather than tax their representatives who may come here to solicit business. Of all the cities in the 

United States it seems to me there is in this city the least excuse for 

sueh a rule. I move that the section be struck out. 

l\1r. SKINNER. One word furt.hAr. I am told-I do not know how 

true it may be-that there is a certain combination among the mer- chants of this city, at lea t the wholesale merchants, to insist upon 

this t:u in order that representatives of large business houses in other 

cities may not be able to come here and sell goods. As the gentle- man from Kansas says, if there is propriety anywher~ in the imposit.jon of snch a tax, Washington City is the last one where it should 

be imposed. It certainly should not be classed along with the licenses reqniretl of the wholesale liquor dealers, or tippling-houses, or bar- rooms. Commerdal agents are known as a respectable class of our eomumnity, ancl as a very extensive one, representing large business 

interests in every great city in the Union. They certainly incre<t e the lmsiuess of t.Le nation. They do it in cities with -which I am acquainted, aml I believe it is not right for the Congress to say that 

what may IJe done in any other city in the United States in perfect 

freedom and honestly and intelligently may not be done here where 

the laws are made. I hope the motion to strike out the section will 

preva.il. 

:Mr. TI.OBINSON, of Massachusetts. Now, Mr. Speaker, I will put 

in my word, so the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. NEAL] will have it in 

bulk. 

There is another phase of this question which my friends have not 

t.oucLed on. 'Ve are legislating here not for the country outside but 

for the District of Columbia, and now in the interest of the people 

here we ought to strike this clause out. There ought to be no barrier between the people for the purchase of goods in this way; and 

it is to the interest of retail dealers in this city, and therefore of the 

purchasers--

1\lr. CASSIDY. 'Ve ought to have free trade here. 

l\lr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Yes, sir; free trade here in this 

District., because protection will not benefit anybody in this District; 

there is nothing to protect. Washington is simply a city of consum- ers, and that consumption should be supplied by the country at lar~e. 

It is ready to be supplied, and there should be no tax on it. My pornt 

is yon are to let the people here have it because there is no object or benefit in establishing a banier. 

It. might be said perhaps, on the other hand, if there were any man- ufact.nring enterprises conducted and there were means of supply, 

then there would be some occa ion to put a wall around and keep the 

rest out. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. Will the gentleman permit me to a k him a question f 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I will be happy to have the 

gentleman ask me a question. 

l\Ir. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. I would like to ask the gentleman 

from Massachusetts whether a similar law does not exist in nearly 

all the cities of the Union f 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I understand that it does. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND, oflllinois. Now, then, if it existsinallother 

cities, wLy n6t in 'Vashington f 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I remember it is found on the st<~tute books of many States, but I am glad to know it is a fact that 

many of the States are repealing those laws, and many are disregarding them as a relic of past ages. There is :~tothing better for this 

conutry tha.n there should be a complete interchange. There should 

be no bonnd<tries here in passing. There should be absolute free 

tm<le in this country, so the gentleman from Georgia may go into 

1assaelmsetts and sell his goods as freely as he may sell them in the 

Stat.e of Geor•ria. 

1\fr. TO\V.KSHEND, oflllinois. I do not think the restriction ex- tend~:> to State lines. It is the local law of different cities. 

lir. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. It is allowed by the State Le~islatures. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND, of illinois. It i8established in cities by special 

charters. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of l\la sachnsetts. But allowed by the Legislatures. 

l\1r. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. Of course authorized by the Legislature . :Mr. ROBINSON, of Ma achusetts. It is quite proper there should 

be a law restricting pedlars or hawkers. That is a very different 

affair; a man who goes about from door to door with a pack on his 

back, because he pays no tax, and it may be the community should 

have the benefit of taxation applied to him. That is another class of 

persons. 

Mr. NEAL. 1\Ir. Speaker, so far from this tax being a relic of bru·-

barism, it is one of the most Christian ta.xes that is imposed by this 

bill. It is an evidence of the enlightenment and civilization of this 

present clay. [Laughter.] I can understand very well how gentle- men having a manufacturing constituency like that of my friend 

from the ~eat State of New York, [Mr. SKINNER,] or of my friend 

from the State of Massachusetts, [l\1r. ROBINSON,] would be glad to 

have their commercial travelers come in and skim off the cream of 

the trade of this District. 

Why, is this just! 'Ve have merehants here who are paying a tax 

of $1.50 on their entire property for the government of this District; 

they are compelled to pay special assessments for the streets, ave- nues, and sidewalks. They cannot compete with these men who pay no tax unless we find some way to compel those outsiders to bear a portion of the burdens here. 

'Vhat do these men dot They come to Washington and rent a room for a dollar a day, and there they display their samples. They 

walk the streets, they have the protection of the police, and if this 

clan e i stricken out they will pay no tax whatever for the privi- le~es they enjoy. Now, says the gentleman from Kansas, it will be eminently improper iu the city of Washington this tax should be levied, for the reason this Government pays one-half the tax here. Why does the 

Government pay one-half the tax t Because the assessed valuation 

of the property owned by the Government is equal to all the property, 

real and personal, of the citizens of this District. That is the reason the people of the city of Washington have been taxed as no people 

in the country were ever taxed. 

Mr. HASKELL. How many wholesale dealers are there in the city 

of Washington f . . 1\Ir. NEAL. I do not know how many wholesale dealers there are in the city, nor how many retail dealers there are. l\lr. HASKELL. Are there more than two f 

Mr. NEAL. I do not know whether there is one or two. I do not 

know whether there are any; but that is not a matter to be considered now. It is a matter of no importance in the consideration of this provision, and in the determination of what is right and just nuder the circumstance presented here. Why, 1\ir. Speaker, this provision does not 

impose any tax or burden upon the commercial traveler coming into 

the District of Columbia from New York, Boston, or elsewhere, that 

it does not impose upon agents residing here. No man, whether a resident of the city or not, can be allowed to conduct business of this 

character under this regulation without paying the tax; and any 

man, no matter where he comes from, who sells, or offers to sell, or who solicits orders for goods of any kind, by sample, catalogue, or description, whether the owner or agent, shall be required to pay the 

tax, and shall be re~arded as a commercial agent. The exact wor<ling of the sentence here is, that- · 

Every person whose business it is to sell, or offer for sale, or solicit orders for 

Rale of goods, wares, or merchandise, by sample, catalogue, or description, whether 

the owner or agent, shall be regarded as a commercial agent. 

Now strike that provision out; allow your commercial travelers to 

establish their agencies here to the detriment of legitimate dealers 

who are compelled to pay the taxes that you impose upon them by 

law, and what condition of things do you bring aboutY You allow 

these men to come in here from all parts of the country, get a room at one of the hotels, display therr samples, not paying a dollar of 

tax; or if they want to escape even that expense, let them go to one of the private houses, rent a room for a dollar a day or less, and transact business there of the same character that you impose a heavy 

tax upon one of the local merchants for transacting. 

Mr. SKINNER. Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a question f 

1\Ir. NEAL. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SKINNER. In what way is this tax to be collectecl-wh3t is 

the process t I understand there is an agent, or an employe of the 

Government, who has charge of this business. Now I have heard some things about the process by which this tax is collected, and a certain process by which it is evaded, by connivance with some of 

the official . I would like to know how it is done f 

l\1r. NEAL. I am unable to give the gentleman any positive information as to the actual method of collection. There was an officer 

appointed by the commissioners, and I have always supposed him to 

be an honest, faithful, and competent man in the discharge cf hio 

duties. If, however, the gentleman from New York can give me such 
1406 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

information, or if he possesses any that tends to establish the facts 

that there is any wrong in this matter, I will have it investigated at once by the commissioners, and if he is dishonest or unfaithful, the ma.tter will be attended to promptly. 

Mr. HASKELL. I would like to ask the gentleman from Ohio 

whether the cities in his own State levy this tax T 

Mr. NEAL. No, they do not levy it, and for the particular rea- son that the constitution expressly prohibits the levying of such 

tuxes. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Then is the State of Ohio a Christian or barbarous community T [LauO'hter.] 

]).fr. NEAL. I will answer the gentleman from Massachusetts that so far as this tax .is concerned it is not up to the standard I would 

like. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Then Ohio is only Christian 

because she gets all the offices-is that itT [Laughter.] 

Mr. NEAL. .All I have to say to the gentleman from Massachusetts in reply to that is, ·that notwithstandin~ the imm~nse amount 

of talk that has been had for the last four or nve years m regard to 

the offices, I will venture to assert that his State has a larger representation in the Departments than the State of Ohio. .And Maine, 

which is still further north, has at least twice the number that Ohio 

has. [Laughter.] 

Mr. ROBINSON, of~fassachusetts. .And that 1ised to be a part of 

Massachusetts. 

Mr. NEAL. Yes; and that used to ue once a part of Massachusetts. 

Now, in answer to the question of the gentleman from Kansas in 

regard to this tax in Ohio, I will say that in 1855 the constitutional 

convention provided that there should be a llliform rate of taxation 

levied upon all property. But since that. time, while it was thought 

at the time to be the very acme of taxation, so far as the principle is concerned, it has been found since that time to be one of the very 

worst principles, in some respects, that ever was devised; and Legi latures and courts. have been working for years past to evade that 

provision in levying taxes. For instance, if the gentleman from 

Kansas should come to my city he would have to pay a license tax 

to the city. 

l\Ir. HASKELL. What forT [Laughter.] 

Mr. NEAL. He would have to pay a tax to the city, if he wanted 

to peddle goods. There is a municipal provision of the city that 

requires the tax to be paid if you want to peddle goods or sell by sample, or exhibit anything-if yon want to run a circus or a public 

exhibition of any kind, you would ha:ve to pay a tax for it. 

l\lr. HASKELL. I will not take my circus to Ohio. [Laughter.] 

:Mr. NEAL. This is one of the police regulations of the city, and 

iu all cities, I understand, a similar tax is levied. · Now, Mr. Speaker, in behalf of the tax-payers of this city I hope 

that this House will not undertake to strike out a paragraph of this 

kind which is so manifestly for their protection. These people are heavily taxed on their property, goods, and merchandise, and this 

I regard as one of the wisest provisions that is incorporated in this 

bill. 

~lr. HASKELL. What is the present rate per cent. that is levied on property in the District of Columuia T · l\lr. NEAL. One dollar and a half on the hundred. 

l\Ir. HASKELL. .And you call that a heavily tax-burdened people 'I -

Mr. NEAL. I tell the gentleman from Kansas that the people of 

Washington have l1een the most grievously oppressed of any people 

in this Union for the last ten years in that respect. 

l\fr. HASKELL. ·I ask the gentleman from Ohio to put his fin~er 

on' a map and point out another city of 50,000 people in .A.menca 

that has but lt per cent. of taxation. I ask him to name one such 

city. . l\fr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. With the perlnission of my friend 

from Ohio, I will say to the gentleman from Kansas that I doubt 

whether he can put his finger on a single city in this Union where 

thevaJnation of the property for ta~ation is so high as it is here in 

the city of ·washington. .And that bas a great deal to do with the 

rate of taxation. In this city property is taxed at its full amount, 

at its intrinsic value, while in other places, as I know is the case in my own State, it is taxed only at one-third of its value. .And, 

of course, where property is taxed at its full amount the taxation 

would be just three times as great as it would be if the property were ·assessed at one-third on1y of its value, the rate being the same. l\fr. HASKELL. I will say to the gentleman from Illinois that if 

property is assessed here at its full value, even then, as compared 

with a city where property is only taxed at half its value, the city 

of Washington is not unduly taxed. .A rate of 3 per cent. is not con- sidered high taxation. - l\lr. ERRETT. I would like to ask the gentleman from Illinois 

[l\11'. TOWNSHEND] a question. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Ohio [Mr. NEAL] 

has the floor. 

Mr. NEAL. In answer to the. gentleman from Kansas, I have 

already stated that in the last ten years the people of Washington 

have lJetm the mJl:!t grievously oppressed ia the way of taxation of 

any people in the United States. I do not hesitate to reaffirm that 

assertion. The special taxes that have been levied all over this city, 

and the work for which they have been levied, the cutting down 

streets, the paving avenues, some of them two hundred and three 

hundred feet wide, and the consequent flooding of grounds, and everything of that sort, have been of such a character that the result in 

many instances has been the virtual con:fisca tion of property. I know 

instances now where those special taxes have not been paid because 

the property was not worth the money, and parties have not been able to borrow money for that purpose. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The time of the gentleman from Ohio 

has expired. 

l\Ir. HENDERSON. I wanted to ask my friend from Ohio a question. If yon tax these commercial runners $200 for the privilege of 

selling goods to the merchants of this city, does it not follow as a consequence that they must charge that much additional in the selling of their goods in order to pay this license! Now, it seems to me that the very men whom the O'entleman from Ohio seeks to protect 

must ultimately have to pay thls tax which you require the commer- cial ageut or the commercial runner to pay, or else if he does not pay 

it, when he purchases the goods he collects the amount from his cus- tomers; so that the people here have to pay it in the end anyhow, in · one form or another. That is the way it strikes me. .As a rule, ~Ir. Speaker, I do not believe in taxing the right of a man to work. .As a rule I do not believe in taxing a man in the ex- ercise of his right to follow any employment that gives him support. 

I believe that all taxes ought to be levied upon the property of the 

community for the benefit of the community. It seems to me that 

that is legitimate and proper. We do tax saloon-keepers; we do tax 

circuses; but we do not tax the right of men generally to work or to 

follow an employment which enables them to support themselve . That is what we do here; and if you compel a commercial agent who 

may be, for aught I know, in a respectable business, to pay a tax of 

$200, he must get that much out of his customers here in this city in some way. These very merchants who purchase goods from him 

have to pay that much more to enable him to come here and prose- cute his business. If they do not pay it themselves, but purchase 

their goods from him, then the people here in the city have it to 

pay. 

Mr. MOORE. I would like to ask the gentleman from Ohio a question :first and then make a very few remarks. I wish to ask the gentle- man how much in fact that tax has brought to the city T What does 

it now bring 1 

Jtfr. NEAL. Tens of thousands of dollars. 

Mr.l\IOORE. Can the gentleman state how much within a limited 

range T 

Mr. NEAL. I do not think I can state exactly. 

Mr. MOORE. When I am at home I am myself engaO'ed in com- mercial business. While I do not pretend to know anything of the 

legal aspects of the question, I know the practical results of the law 

because the same sort of law exists in my State and in my city and 

has done so for many years. The effect of this law in Tennessee is 

substantially to embarrass business very considerably while it produces comparatively no income. 

This city is a city of ret:til merchants, of shop-keepers, and as a gentleman near me suggests, of boarding-houses and politicians. 

There is no wholesale business in Washington, substantially none. If there is I neverhaveheardoftheman whodoessuoh business, and 

I have been engaged in commercial business all my life. 

This class of agents are a great benefit to the retail merchants of 

this city. It is a great convenience to a retail merchant in Washington to have a commercial drummer come from New York, from 

Boston, and from Baltimore-from Baltimore particularly-because 

he can come here in an hour with his samples and lay them down on ·the man's counter and furnish him with all the appliances he needs 

without his spending a dollar to visit the market. .As I have said, 

the only class of trades-people in Washington are the retail men, and 

I contend this law is an absolute and a very great benefit to those people and to this community. 

Mr. SKINNER. Do you mean this law imposing a tax! 

1\lr. MOORE. No, not the law, but the class of people whom this 

law taxes. The absence of a law taxing these commercial agents 

would be a benefit to the business men of this community. 

Mr. NEAL. I will state to the gentleman from Tennessee that a very large proportion of the dealers in ·washington have remon- strated agai.Jist the repeal of this provision. They do not agree with 

the gentleman in what he states. 

Jtlr. MOORE. I know the effect of this law, being a wholesale 

merchant myself in Tennessee. There are drummers coming there 

almost every day from the eastern cities and from Saint Louis, Chicago, &c.; and a similar law to this exists upon the statute-book 

there. A similar law to this is on the statute book there, and there 

is not one man in twenty who pays the license; it is evaded in some way. .And we who are in business-it maybe to my discredit that I 

say it-connive at the evasion, because, as has been said, we regard 

it as a relic of a past era. ]).fr • .ALDRICH. May I inquire of the Chair what is the pending 

amendment! 

Tl~e SPEAKER p1·9 t~mp6t·e, 1.'he pending propok!ition is the motio'' 

·' ( 
I 

\ 

1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1407 

of the gentleman from Kansas [Mr. HASKELL] to strike out section 

189 relating to commercial travelers. 

Mr. ALDRICH. The gentleman from Ohio in charge of this bill, 

[1\ir. NEAL,) I am glad to say, is generally right; but in this case I 

think he has made a mistake. If he could modify this section so as to have it apply in those cases where people come here with their 

goods to sell, and remain perhaps during a ses ion of Congress or a part of a session, and sell their goods in competition with tke mer- chants here, then I would have no objection to it. 

Mr. NEAL. There is an express provi ion in this code which re- quires every man who comes here with goods for sale and remains 

twenty-four hours to have his goods assessed for taxation. 

Mr. ALDRICH. That is all right. 

Mr. NEAL. He has to pay taxes at the rate of one dollar and a half on a hundred. 

Mr. ALDRICH. Then I do not think we need this section at all. 

I want to say, t.hat in my judgment the commercial traveler who comes here to sell goods to the merchants by sample is doing them a great favor. 

Mr. NEAL. They do not think so. Mr. ALDRICH. There are seasons of the year when the merchants are very busy and cannot take the time to go to the large cities to 

make purchases of goods. All that time and expense is saved them 

by the commercial travelers who come here. 

I want to correct the gentleman when he says that there is not a city in the United States which does not impose a tax on the com- mercial travelers who go there. That is a mistake. It is not done 

in my city, and these commercial travelers are there all the time. I 

thiuk any enterprising city is absolutely benefited by the commer- cial travelers who go there and exhibit in that city the wares which 

they have for sale. They would sell many goods to these men, and 

the result would be more enterprise in busine s here. 

So far as I understand this is generally amunicipalla,w. The cities 

who pass such laws to keep out commercial travelers are of the old 

fogy kind, and are without that enterprise which makes cities great 

aud pro perous. I think this is a mistake. 

Mr. NEAL. Have you not such a law as this in Chicago' 

1.1r. ALDRICH. No, sir, we have not. 

Mr. NEAL. EverythinO' is free trade there. 

Mr. ALDRICH. Yes; these men come in there and sell their goods 

ty ample, and weneverthinkoftaxingthem. 'Veareglad to have 

them come. That is one thing which helps to build up Western 

cities. orne of the smaller cities have passed laws to tax these commercial 

travelers and keep them out; and in every instance that I have heard 

of, snch a law has not been long in force beforeit is wiped out, be- cause they find it to work injuriouSly. 

Mr. NEAL. Now let us have a vote. 

The SPEAKER pro tempo're. The question is upon the motion 

of the gentleman from KansacS [Mr. HASKELL] Lo strike out sec- tion 189. 

The question was taken; and upon a division there were-ayes 22, noes 13. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e announced there ult of the vote, and 

declared the motion ag_reed to. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I suggest that, inasmuch as there is no quorum on this vote, this section be passed over until there is a full House. 

The SPEAKER p1·o temp01·e. That would require unanimous con- sent. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Of course it is impossible to proceed with business 

without a quorum. 

Mr. TAYLOR. I have a suggestion to make which I think will 

obviate the troub1e concerning this section. If we could dispose of 

the motion of the gE~ntleman from Kansas [Mr. HASKELL] in another 

way it might be well. I su~gest that we simply provide here a definition of what is a commerCial traveler, so as to show that it is one wbo sells goods to others than dealers. I think that would meet the 

views of all. 

The SPEAKER pro temp01·e. This discus ion is hardly in order. 

Mr. TAYLOR. I make the suggestion so that the gentleman from 

Kansas ma.y modify his motion. 

The SPEAKER p1·o ternpm·e. Does the gentleman from Indiana 

[Mr. HOLliiA~] raise t.he question that there is no quorum 7 

Mr. HOLMAN. I made the suggestion that as there was no quorum 

the section be passed over for the present. 

The SPEAKER p1·o te-mpore. The Chair will submit to the House 

the nggestion of the gentleman from Indiana, that this section be 

pa sed .over for the pre ent to bEfreturned to hereafter. 

Mr. ALDRICH. Of course there will be no objection to that if the 

geu1JlemaJ.l raises the point that there is no quorum. Bot it eems to me tbat a-s there was a very decided majority in favor of it. the 

:waenclment might be regarded as adopted. 

The SPEAKER pro tentpore. The Chair suggests that by unanimous 

con ent t.be vote just taken may be set aside. 

Mr. SKINNER. Does the gentleman from Indianamakethe point 

that there is no qnornm 1 

The SPEAKER pro telnpm·e. The gentleman suggested that h e would 

make it. 

Mr. HQLMAN1 1 di<.l not say so in o many words. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman said so inferentially. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Let the section be passed over for the present. 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. The Chair hears no objection to passing over section 189 for the present, to be returned to hereafter. 

The Clerk will proceed with the reading of the bill. 

The Clerk read the following : 

SEC. 191. Telegraph companies shall pay annuaJly $250, and $' on each telegraph-pole in use in the District, and shall paint and number all such poles in the manner pre cribed by the commissioners of the District. Telephone companies 

shall pay annnally $100. and hereafter no more or additi.tmal telegraph or telephone 

poles shall be erected within the limits of the cities of Washington or Georgetown. 

Mr. HASKELL. I would like to inquire of the gentleman from 

Ohio [Mr. NEAL) what is the idea in regard to the latter part of this 

section. It reads : ' 

Telephone companies shall pay annually $100, and hereafter no more or aclditional telegraph or telephone poles shall be erected within the limits of the cities 

of Washington or Georgetown. 

Mr. NEAL. The idea is to have them put underground. They are becoming a terrible nuisance in cities. 

l\fr. HASKELL. Why not have them all put underground t 

l\fr. NEAL. We a1low those to stand which are already erected; 

do not compel them to be taken down. 

Mr. JOYCE. I observe that the next section to be read is sec- tion 19:t I desire to say that I shall move to strike out sections 193, 

194,195, 196, 197, -and 198; but I have no objection to their being all 

read before submitting my motion, if my right to make it be not 

lost. 

The SPEAKER pro temp01·e. Without objection the ri~bt to mo\e 

to Rtrike ont these section will be reserved. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

SEc. 193. Wholesale dealers in distilled or fermented liquors, wines, or cordials 

shall pay $200 annually: Provided, This license shall not authorize any person to sell fermented or distilled liquors, wines, or cordials in less quantity than one pint nor to be drunk upon the premises where sold. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. There seems to be a little 

ambiguity in the language of this proviso. 

The SiEAKER pro tempore. The Chair desires to state to the _gentleman from Massachusetts that the gentleman from Vermont LMr. 

JOYCE] has reserved the right to move to strike out this and several 

succeedinO" sections. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. But I suppose it is in order to 

perfect them as we go on 7 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is. 

Mr. NEAL. Certainly, if there i'3 anything wrong. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. The proviso reads: 

Provided, T\;s license shall not authorize any person to sell fermented or distilled liquors, Wines, or cordials in less quantity than one pint, nor to be drunk on the premises where sold. 

[LanO'hter.] 

Mr. NEAL. It ought to be "drank," instead of"drunk.'' 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. It does not read very well. I am afraid somebody ma.y get into trouble unless an amendment be 

made. 

Mr. NEAL. Well, let the gentleman move to strike out "drunk" 

and insert "drank." 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Perhaps my friend from Ohio 

would like to pass this over and take it up in the calmness of the 

morning, so as to get it right. [Laughter.) 

Mr. NEAL. I am not responsible for typographical errors. Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusett.s. I move to amend by striking 

out the word" nor" and insertin~ in lieu thereof the words" or to 

sell such liquors, wines, or cordialS." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

SEc. 194. Wholesale dealers in malt liquors alone shall pay $100 annnally. .All persons not licensed as brewers, engaged in bottling ale, beer, porter, or other malt 

liquors, or who sell the same in ke~s or barrels, or supply it to dealers in bottles, 

shall be deemed wholesale dealers m malt li9uors. SEC. 195. Every person engaged in the bnsmess of manufacturing brewed or malt 

liquors for sale, shall pay $100; if a larger quantity than 5,000 barrels be manu- factured. the sum of $200 annually. SEc. 196. Every person engaged in the business of distilling or manufacturing for sale spirituous or intoxicating liquors shall pay $200 annually. SEc. 197. Rectifiers shill pay $50 annually, in addition to the license as whole- sale dealer. SEc. 198. The proprietors of bar-rooms, sample-rooms, and tippling-houses shall 

pay $250 annually; and of beer-saloons $100 annually. Every place where malt 

liquors only are sold to be drunk on the premises shall be regarded as a beersaloon. Every plaoo where distilled or fermented liquors, wines, or cordials are sold to be drunk on the premises shall be regarded as a bar-room, sample-room, or tippling-bon e; and it shall be the duty of the proprietor of every such plaoo to depo it with the collector the amount of his license fee. with his application for 

license, and also present the written permission of a majorit.y of the persons own- ing real eslate, and. for this purpose department officers having cl1arge of {>nl>lic bUildings shall be considered as owners thereof1 and a majority of the res1clents keepin~ hon e on the side of the square where it 1s desired to locate such bu. iness, and of the sido of the square fronting opposite the same, which permission, with 

the signattues attached, shall be certified to by the collector of taxes; and such 

licent>e shall not be issued until approved by the commissioners : Provided, how- ever, That where, during the year, no complaint has been made against the pro- prietor of any Rnch place on the part of the propert,y-hol!let-s and r esidents, such 

proprietor shall not be required to file every year With his application for license 

such a written permission of persons ownin~ rea1 estate and residents; but if such complaint hn ucen macle, the prop1·ietor shall obtain anew the wtitten com;ent of 
1408 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

such owners of real estate and residents as is herein required of him. And no spirituous, vinous, or malt liquors shall be sold except in compliance with the provisions of this title, nor to minors nor intoxicated persons. 

Mr. JOYCE. I move to a.mend by striking out sections193 to 198, 

inclnsive, and inserting what I .send to the desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

That from and after the passage of this act no person shall be allowed to manu- facture, import, sell, exchange, or give, barter, or dispose of any intoxicating liquors to be used as a bevera/;{e in the District of Columbia. 

That it shall bela wful for druggists who are regularly licensed dealers in poisons, 

drugs, al.ld alcohol to sell intoxicatin~liquors for medicinal and scientific purposes and the mechanic arts only: Proviaed, That they are labeled and marked dis· 

t.inctl:y, so that the buyer ~ay be aware of what isJ?irrchase~, and cautioned against 

their IIDproper use: Prom'ded.further, That the srud druggiSts shall ke~p a boo~ of 

regist.ry, in which shall be entered all sales so made by them as afor6Sa.Id, sbowmg 

the name of the person to whom delivered, the quantity, date of sale. and on whose 

order or prescription the sale was made; and such record shall be submitted to the 

inspection of the board of police in the District of Columbia, or before any court in a trial at law, whenever required by said board or court. That any Ucensed druggist or other person who may manufacture, import, sell, 

exclillnge, or give, barter, or dispose of any intoxicating liquors as a beverage in 

violation of the provisions of this act shall be subject, for each offen. e, to a fiDe of 

$300, and to imprisonment not exceeding three months, and in default of payment of the fine to three months' additional imprisonment; also, the person thus offendin~ 

shall be Uable for all damages accruing from the sale or other disposition of intoXIcating liquors as a beverage in violation of the provisions of this act. All courts having original jUiisdiction, and offic~ charged "?th. the executio~ of civil and 

criminal law, as well as the board of poli.ce of the Dtstrict of Colnmbta, are hereby 

authorized and required to give a fatthful, prompt, and efficient execution to this act. 

lfr. JOYCB. Mr. Speaker--

Mr. NEAL. If the gentleman seriously iutends to insist upon 

this amendment, I suggest that we pass the sections informally and recur to them hereafter. 

Mr. JOYCE. · I have no oujection to that. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Tlw gentleman from Vermont asks 

permission that these sections ue passed over, to ue retm·ned to hereafter. 

Mr. JOYCE. I desire it distinctly understood that I do not ask to 

have them passed over-not by any means. The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The Chair should have said the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. NEALl asks it. ~fr. NEAL. I am very willing to have the matter disposed of now, 

provided the question of a quorum is not to be raised. 

Mr. JOYCE. That, of course, I cannot tell anything about. 

Mr. NEAL. You can tell whether you will raise it. It is very evident that this code, if it ever becomes a law, must be considered by a thin House. :Members do not care enough for legislation afi'ecting 

the District of Columbia to attend any night session or to give in the 

flay-time one moment to the consideration of District business. In 

view of the indifference in this House upon measures of this kind it 

is a thankless job for members of the District Committee to work 

upon them. 

Mr. JOYCE. In answer to the gentleman ft·om Ohio I said, as I say 

now, that I have no objection to passing over these sections for the 

present, though I do not ask it. But when this matter is to be con- sidered I desire to be heard. 

The SPEAKERpro tempore. TheChairhearsno objection topassing ov~ sections 193 to 198, inclusive, to be returned to hereafter, 

the amendment of the gentleman from Vermont to be considered 

pending. 

Mr. DINGLEY. I desire to make this inquiry: If the substitute 

of the gentleman from Vermont should be rejected when the House comes to consider these sections, will amendments to the sections be 

in order Y 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It will be in order to perfect the sec- tions before the question is taken on striking out and inserting. 

Without objection the request of the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. NEAL 1 

will be agreed to. 

There wa.s no objection. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

SEc. 212. Peddlers shall pay $50 annually. Any J?erson who may offer for sale, 

from bouse to house, dry fancy goods, hardware, notions, toys, and similar articles 

nDd goods, delivered at the time of sale, shall be regarded as a peddler: Provided, 

!1~!l:O~'k~t!i~8:~~s~u~:~U:~~~~~ $'i~ ~~~o~b!~:duf:eJli~ :~fn °! 

license, provided such person obtains the written permission of ~e commissioners. 

Mr. MOORE. Private carriages certainly should be taxed at some rate. We tax every other vehicle of every imaginable character, and 

why not carriages kept for private use T 

Mr. NEAL. Iwillanswerthegentlemanfrom Tennessee. Private 

carriages are taxed at their real value in money. If the gentleman 

will examine this lwense system he will find there is nothing taxed 

Ly special license, except commercial travelers, which does notrequire the surveillance of the police. That is the principle we adopted 

in preparing this Jicense system. .All property used in a legitimate 

and honorable way is subject to the ordinary rules of taxation. But 

when it comes to hacks which stand upon the streets, aud upon which 

the police must keep an eye to see no exorbitant charges a.re imposed, 

special license tax is imposed. And so it is with carts and horses and 

flmys. It was for that reason, and that alone, any tax was impol:led 

here. The gentleman will notice the tax on carts and drays is light, as they ordinarily are run by poor people. We did not propose to 

impose any burdensomo tax on them, and yet it waR necessary to 

impose some to keep in view of the police these vehicles kept for ~& . 

Mr. MOORE. I did not notice the section as it was passed, and if 

in order I should like to ask whether it is thought best the tax on theaters shall remain as it is T I would like to move an amendment 

to make it $250. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It has been passed a,nd can only be 

amended by unanimous consent. ~fr. MOORE. -1 did not see it until it was passed. 

Mr. TAYLOR. Regular order! 

The Clerk read as tollows: 

SEc. 214. Any willful and corrupt false swearin~ or affirming by any person before any officer of this District empowered to administer oaths and affirriiations, to any material fact in any matter relating to the assessment or collection of taxes or licenses impo ed by the provisions of this act, shall be deemed peljury, and shall 

be punished in the manner prescribed by law for such offenses. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massn.chusetts. I should like to ask the gentleman from Ohio whether there is any provision in the bill by which 

the complainant gets one-half, or any portion of the penalty imposed 

for violation of license laws f 

Mr. NEAL. I cannot answer that question now. Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusettd. That fea.ture of any law I disJike exceedingly. 

Ur. NEAL. I cannot answer positively. If there is it comes hereufter, and the gentleman from Massachusetts can move to strike it 

out. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

CHAPTER VIII. 

COLLATERAL DiHERITANCES, DISTRIDUTIVE SIIARES, A..."'D LEGACIES. 

REc. 215. All estates, real and personal, passmg from any person who may die 

seized and possessed thereof, being in this District, or any part of such estate or interest therein transferred by deed, grant, bargain, gift, or sale, made or intended to take effect in possession after the death of the grantor, bargainor, devisor, or donor to any person, in trust or otherwise, other th:m for the use of the father or mother, wife or children, and other lineal descendants of the grantor, bargainor, devisor~.donor, or intestate, shall be subject to a. tax of 2! per cent. on every hundred doual's of the value of such estates; and all executors and administrators shall 

only be discharged from liability for the amount of such tax, the payment of which 

they may be charged with, by paying the same as herein directed : Provided, That no estate which may be valued at a less sum than $500 shall be subject to the ta.x imposed by this section: .And prO'IJidedjurther, That the said tax shall not be ap- plied to grants, deeds, or devises for purely charitable purposes. 

l\Ir. HOLMAN. I wish to call the attention of the gentleman from 

Ohio having charge of this bill to whether the words "on every 

hundred dollars" ought not to be omitted. The tax is fixed at~ 

per cent. on the value of said estates. It seems to me the words 

"on every hundred dollars" is a repetition and I move to strike them 

out. It is 2-! per cent., and it is only repeating the idea a second 

time. 

Mr. NEAL. The gentleman is right. ~fr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Strike out u every hundred 

dollars of," so as to leave the word'' on" in. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Certainly, I accept that as a modification of my 

amendment. 

The amendment as modi.fied was agreed to. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

SEC. 227. The register of wills shall give to the person paying the said tax dupli- cate receipts for the same, one of whicb shall be forwarded by said person to the 

treasurer, to be by him preserved, and certified copies thereof shall be evidence in 

suits upon the bonds of said register. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Is the word "treasurer" right 

there! 

Mr. NEAL. No; it ought to be "auditor," and I move to make 

that amendtnent. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

SEc. 228. The register of wills shall pay over monthly to the treasurer all taxes collected by him under the provisions of this chapter and take his receipt therefor. 

:Mr. NEAL. I move to strike out the word "treasurer," in the sec- ond line, and in lieu thereof insert the word "collector." 

The amendment was agreed to. - Mr. NEAL. Now the next title is title 4, concerning public schools, 

and I am authorized by the unanimous vote of the Committee on the 

District of Columbia to strike out all of that title. Regulation of 

public schools does not belong to a book of municipal ordinances. I 

should never have put it in there, but I left it, finding it in la.st year's 

work. 

~fr. COBB. Why should it not remain f 

~fr. NEAL. Because this is a book of ordinances, and the present 

law on the statute furnishes a good school tlystem, one under which 

the schools have flourished, and there is no necessity for a change. 

Mr. HASKELL. I sn~gest the title be passed over informally. 

1\!J:. NEAL. If there ts any good 1·eason why it should be passed over I do not object, but otherwise I do object. 

:Mr. HASKELL. There are some questiona which I wish to raise 

when the House is full. 

Mr. MANNING. If the gentle:man has some suggestion to offer in 

reference to the matter I do not object to its being passed over. I 

repeat the inquiry of the gentleman having charge of the bill, why ~:~hould it be passed overt 

\ 

i ,., 
1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1409 

Mr. HASKELL. I am entirely willing to st.atemy reason for asking it be passed over. Here is a section evidently passed by the 

commntee concerning the public schools of the District of Columbia. 

I suppose there are some modifications, indeed I know there are some, 

of existing- school laws of the District, and I do not know but with some modifications the present title would be preferable to a large 

number of members. It might be the new law with these modifications might be much better than the old law, and I should like to 

have an opportunity, since the idea of striking it out has come up, 

to examine the difference between the law as it now stands and the 

law as it would be if this section were adopted. I have not had 

time to examine the changes proposed by this new code in reference 

to the school laws. 

Mr. MANNING. I do not understand the gentleman from Kansas 

yet. He says that is all; but it seems to me that he quit before he 

answered. 

1\Ir. HASKELL. Then I will try to make myself plain, ifth~ gentle- man will give his attention. The Committee on the District of Columbia at some time set itself deliberately to work to revise the school 

system of the District, as evinced by this school title in the bill now onder consideration. If they did revise it they made changes, that 

is clear. Now, I say that possibly with slight modifications the old 

plan might snit me better than this, or this, for instance, might more nearly conform to my views than the olllaw, and I have not 

had time to examine the difference between the old and the new sufficiently to make up my mind positively upon it yet. If, however, 

it is determined here to go through with it to-night, it would prevent 

the House from the consideration of the school system, which perhaps 

needs much change, amendment, and modification that ought to be 

incorporated t.o make it perfect in this code. For that reason I 

think it would be wise to pass it over for the time being. 

Mr. MANNING. I take it for granted, Mr. Speaker, that the gentleman from Kansas has already crystallized his views about the 

matter. I take it for grl\>nted that the modifications which he thinks 

ought to be made he has already determined upon. It may be that with 

the modifications suggested now we could perfect and conclude this 

matter at once. But I am not in favor of pressing the matter, and if 

the gentleman desires it, I have no objection to defer to his views. 

Mr. CoBB rose. l\lr. HASKELL. I am perfectly willing and ready to present such 

suggestions and modifications as I think should be required, if it is 

the wish of the House to proceed with the matter to-night, and if the 

gentleman from Indiana will yield to me for that purpose. 

The SPEAKER pro t.e?npo·re. The Chair had already recognized tho 

gentleman from Kansas before the gentleman from Indiana rose, and 

will recognize the gentleman from Indiana afterward. It is in order, 

the Chair will state, to perfect the section before the motion to strike 

out is submitted to the House. 

1\lr. NEAL. l'lfr. Speaker, it is proper that I should say that the 

principal point aimed at by this code is to make such laws as will more effectually secure a proper collection of the taxes in the District 

of Columbia. The principal object in view is to enable the people here 

tounderstandexactly whatlaws they are living under; but there is 

nothing in the code but what might be properly designated the mu- nicipal ordinances of the city. The school system is never included 

in the ordinances of any city, and the gentleman from Kansas will 

not find in any book of ordinances of any city in the Union, I will 

venture to assert, a school system. 

The Committee on the District of Columbia proposed a bill in the 

first instance that they incorporated in the bill which had been presented in the Forty-fifth Congress by the gentleman from Kentucky, 

[1\Ir. BLACKBURN.] I did riot know myself at that time when I un- dertook to revise it, nor wa8 I sufficiently acquainted with the laws 

of the District to know what was required and what was not. How- ever we revised the law as-we found it, and that revision is now as it 

appears in this code. But nponexaminationofthelaw asitisnowon 

the statute-books I find no material improvement in this particular 

part of it, and I am also informed that the schools here are flourishing 

to such an extent that Washington is noted all over the country for one of the best and most efficient l)chool systems in the United States. 

For these two reasons~ I do not think that it is best to interfere with 

the system or undertake to modify it. 

In the second place, if we should conclude to do it, this portion of 

t4e bill had better be set down as a special measure to be considered 

separate and apart and independently of the bill before the House. 

It is for these reasons that the Committee on the District of Columbia without opposition instructed me to move to strike out this title. 

Mr. HASKELL. If I may now be permitted I will state frankly 

my objections. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The Chair will state that this debate 

is proceeding of course by unanimous consent. 

Mr. HASKELL. I understand that, and will now state frankly 

to a· many members of the House as are present exactly what I am t.hinking of. It has been a matter of some pride and interest to a largo majority of the people of my State to eliminate from its con- stitution ancl from its Iaws the words white and black, and German 

and hisl1, and American born and foreign born, and all that, regard- ing it as objectionable language, phraseology, or terms. I would 

lilw to see eliminated from the la.wt? pf t~e Pistnct of Col~Iqhia everr 

XIII-89 

.· 

allusion to white and black people, whether it relates to schools, or whether it relates to court , or whether it relates to taxation. 

I do not stand here as an advocate of a mixed school or a separate 

school system, or of any kincl of a system-for or ap:ainst any of these 

proposition ; but I insist that in this day and age it is time for us in our laws to stop legisla.ting about people, black, white, or colored, or any other sort of people by name, or to use in our legislation any 

longer that class phraseology. There is only mischief, wro~~' and 

eiTor in it, and I believe that the laws ought to be clear of all such 

phra eology. 

Mr. NEAL. May I ask the gen~.leman from Kansas a question T 

lli. HASKELL. Yes, sir. 

lllr. NE.AL. .Are you in favor of taking away from the authorities 

of the District of Columbia the discretion in regard to the schools, so that if the best interests of the District require the establishment 

of separate schools for co~ored childTen, you would prevent them from 

doing itT 

Mr. HASKELL. No, sir. 

Mr. NE.AL. That I understand to be the position of the gentleman. 

Mr. HASKELL. I will tell the gentleman from Ohio that I would 

simply copy the school system in my own State. Kansas has a better school ystem than there is in the whole world elsewhere. 

:Mr . .ALD.iUCll. I beg tho gentleman's pardon. I do not agree 

with him. 

lllr. COBB. We have as good a system in my own State. 

Mr. HASKELL. That question was settled at the time of the Paris 

exposition in 1878. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND, oflllinois. There is no better system than that 

of Illinois. . l!lr. HASKELL. I know whereof I speak. There was an inspection of school syst.ems at the time of the Paris exhibition, and the 

school system of Kansas was exhibited before the world, and in com- petition with all other school systems, and the State of Kansas took 

the prize. 

In that school code the word "white" or the word "colored" does 

not appear anywhere; and yet there are colored schools all over the 

State of Kansas, and there are mixed schools all over the State of 

Kansas, arranged and adapted to the needs and tastes of the various 

localities and situations. I would like to have in the District of 

Columbia, in its school system, no white or black. I would leave it 

to the board of school trustees to grade their schools, to manage 

their schools, and adjust and adapt their schools to the needs of this 

District in its various localities. If the colored people want a separate school by themselves, and it is as economical and convenient to 

give it to them as to give a mixed school, why then give them a separate school. 

lli. NEAL. .And suppose the white people want a separate school T 

Mr. HASKELL. If the white people want a separate school, and 

it can be given to them decently and in order, I would give t hem a white school. But if you take out of the law the words " white" 

and "black" and leave the system quite clear, you leave the school 

trustees at liberty to adapt the school system to the needs of the 

Di trict. 

Tills matter of providing for separate schools may seem to be very 

harmle and simple and just and righteous; aud yet it can be made 

the meanest enginery of oppression in the world. I do not know it 

has been so made in the District of Columbia; but I say it can be made so. You can by this means bar out of all decent schools every colo reel 

child in the Di trict. Yon can put your colored children in barns and 

barracks and rat-holes under these very harmless-looking phrases that 

appear in the law providing for separate schools. 

I do not stand here as an ad vocate for a mixed school, nor as an an- vocate for a separate school. But I do stand here as an advocate for 

absolute equality before the law. It is time in this nineteenth cen- tury, and in this year of 1882, to wipe out of your statute-books these 

unfair and prejudicial distinctions. 

Mr. !\fANNING. I rise to make an inquiry of the Chair. What is now pending before the Honse! 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair stated, when the gentle- man from Kansas took the floor, that this discussion was proceeding 

by unanimous consent. If any gentleman objects--

1\Ir. MANNING. I onlywanted to look forward and see what this was coming to. Ur. HASKELL. I was speaking to the motion to strike out this 

title. 

Mr. 1\IA.J.'\TNING. I imagine while the gentleman may be in order 

to speak against the motion to strike out, he is not in order to speak 

indefinitely. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. There is no motion to strike out pending. 

1\Ir. MANNING. I understood the gentleman in charge of the bill 

to submit that motion. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Ol.Jio [Mr NEAL] 

asked unanimous consent, as the Chair recollects, to pass over title 4. 

Mr . .ALDRICH. The gentleman from Ohio made the motion to 

strike out. 

The SPEAKER pro tempo1·e. And then the gentleman from Kansas 

aiked unanimous consent to pass over that title. That request was 

s-qbmitteq_ to t4e ~OUB~; ~nq 0~ that req_nest to rP.-81'! PYI3f th~ titl~, 
1410 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· HOUSE. FEBRUARY 23, 

with a view of returning to it hereafter, this discussion arose. The 

Chair under ·tands the discussion relates to that request to passover, 

and the Chair stated the gentleman from Kansas was proceeding by 

unanimous consent. Of course if he is arguing the que tion upon strikin<Y out, the five minutes to which he would be entit led are exhausted, and the gentleman. from Kansas is not entitled to speak 

further. 

1\Ir. COBB. I do not know in just what shape the question is pending now before the House. But I think that this portion of the bill 

ought to be retained, when properly modified an.d changed. I am not 

satisfied from the knowledge I have of the management of the public ~chools but what there can be somechangesmadewhichmayperfect 

t he system. I will suggest one now. The board of trustees is com- posed of too many persons. There at·e nineteen members on the board. 

l\Ir. 1\~AL. Does the gentleman from Indiana know that the com- missioners can r educe the number down to five if they choose to do it 7 

l\fr. COBB. I know the commissioners may do that, as they are authorized under the general act to reduce the number of officers; but 

they caunot increase the number, I believe. I think it would be well 

for Congress to look into this matter and to make such changes as are rio-ht and proper under the practice adoptecl by the commissioners. 

So far as mixed schools are concerned I am oppo ed to them. I do 

not believe that the children of this District or of any State in thi~> 

Union can be benefited by mixed school . There are certain conditions in life that we have got to recognize practically in legislat ion as well as anywhere else; and the man who cannot see it , 1 occurs to me, must necessarily fail to be a good legislator. ln this District e~ ry man knows who looks out upon the population that th re are clas ·es of people h ere who cannot mix in public school , and it is 

better that each of them should have a separate school where they 

can best be benefited. 

There a.re other suggestions I might make. But the pecial point 

I desire to make is this: that we ou~ht to consider this school question and make such provi ions in this bill as will guide and control 

in a gener::tl way the board of trustees. 

Now I see an amendment here right at the start in this chool matt er that I would object to most seriously. I thinkitisnotpractical. 

It divides up the District of Columbia into school district , putting 

in one of them I believe about twenty-five schools, and in another I 

believe two hundred and fomteen. Now that is not right. 

1\Ir. NEAL. Oh, not schools. 

1\fr. COBB. Yes, sir, schools; I mean exactly what I Ray. It is a di ision which has been gotten up certainly without regard to the 

interests of the District. Therefore I would amend that portion of 

the bill. For instance, it ays "the fourth district shall include all 

that portion of the District which is east of said Eastern Branch." 

That portion includes twenLy schools; I said twenty-five. 

Then another provision is, "the third district shall include all 

that portion of the District of Columbia which is between Seventh 

street and the Eastern Branch of the Potomac River." That includes 

two hundred and fourteen schools; twenty in one ilistrict and two 

hundred and fourteen m another. 

Now, in lieu of such a provision as that, !would say that the District of Columbia should be divided into seven schotll districts, and so divided tha,t as near as can well be done an equal number of schools 

should be in each district. That might be done by the commissioners 

of the District of Columbia. 

There are other matters which I might suggest, but I will not take 

up the time of the House to do so now. I think the e provisions 

in relation to the schools in the District shoultl be considered and 

determined by the House. J\.fr. ALDRICH. I think we can afford to trust this Committee on the Disb·ict of Columbia. It seems to be the unanimous request of 

the members of that committe.e that this whole title should be trick en out. I think the reasons given by the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. 

NEAL] are good reasons w by we should accede to that reque t. The 

code is the important thing, as the gentleman has stated, for it relates to taxes: &c. He has given the whole story. His request is that this 

whole title latin~o public schools should be stricken out. 

Mr. CASSIDY. we do not want to jeopardize the whole code by 

the consideration of this school law. 

Ur. ALDRICH. Not at all; the code is too important. I have come up here night after night, and have been willing to do so, to 

h elp along this important matter. The Committee on the District 

of Columbia are unanimous in making this request, and it seems. to me that it is a very reasonable one. I hope this title will be stricken 

out, and that we will go on with the rest of the bill. 

Mr. MOORE. I would like to say a very few words on this motion 

to strike out. I come from a section of the country where the colored people form a very large element of the population. I come from Tennes ee, where a very few years ago the slavery question was a, great question, but where the people to-day recognize all as American freemen. 

I am not in favor of mixed schools, of miscegenation, of mixed white 

and colored animals or men, or anything. Birds of one kind :flock 

together, and animals of one kind herd together, and so on. There 

is no trouble about that; we have lived past that era. We are living now in an age of prejudice, it is true, but we are not 

living amid such deep and bitter prejudices as pervaded the country 

~···· r -

twcntyyearsago. Wehavemadeimmenseprogressintwentyyearsimmense progres . A few years ago the use of the word "colored" in connection with 

the ballot woUld have created strife and discord and discontent. 

That matter is now discussed all over my section of the country, aud 

nobody thinks any harm of it. Those gentlemen on the other side 

of the House who used to make the most noise, make no noise in my 

section now when that question is discussed. 

Ifyou strikethewords ''white" and "black" from the laws ofthe 

land there will be no danger of black people and white people mingling and mixing and marrying and troubling each other. TherA 

should be no such words on the statute-book. 

Now, when I say that I wish it to be distinctly understood that I 

have never been charged with any disposition or fancy for mixing 

and miscegenation and all such stuff as frightens timid men. There 

is no danger of it. 

Order is Heaven's first law, and, this confessed, 

Some are and must be greater than the rest. 

Sir, I believe the Anglo-Saxon race is the greatest that was ever created. And because I think it is a greater race than the colored race is one of the best reasons in the world why I am willing to give 

the colored race a chance. In Heaven's name, if we are superior, as we claim to be, what harm can there be in helping to raise up the 

" ak and the lowly and the fallen f There is no harm in that. 

'Vhy should we as Christia.ns and patriots be so much alarmed at 

this matter We are living in daily intercourse and mingling with 

the colors and blending together in all sorts of life. Yet I see no 

harm ; I am not afraid of that. 

W e are told by England's greatest bard that "the strawbery grows 

beneath the nettle," and-[ after a panse]-I will give it to you in a. moment. I am not quite so apt in the line of public addresses as some of my distinguished friends on the other side; but I will give 

it to you if you will give me time: 

The strawberry grows beneath the nettle, 

And wholesome oerries rise and ripen best 

Neighbored by fi:uits of baser quality. 

Now, gentlemen, you may make the application; you may apply 

it to other race and it will be equally relevant. I therefore am opposed to having the words "white" and "colored" in the laws 

applied to the District of Columbia, and when the time comes I 

shall vote for expunging them. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will now submit to the House the 

r equest of the gentleman from Kansas, [Mr. HASKELL,] that this 

title be pa eel over for the present, to be returned to hereafter. 

1\fr. CASSIDY. Let it be tricken out. 

Mr. ALDRICH. Yes, we had better strike it out now. The SPEAKER p1·o ternpore. There is objection to passing the 

matter over. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman 

from Ohio [Ur. NEAL] t.o strike out all of title 4, embracing sections 

229 to 254 inclusive. 

The que tion being taken, there were-ayes 21, noes 6. 

l\Ir. COBB. No quorum. 

The SPEAKER p-ro tempore. Does the gentleman from Indiana 

raise the point that no quorum has voted f 

1\Ir. HAsKELL rose. 1\fr. COBB. I will hear what the gentleman from Kansas [l\Ir. 

IlA.sKELL] ha to say. 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. It may then be too late. 

1\fr. HASKELL. I shall have to ask for a. consideration of this 

question in a full House. 

The SPEAKERp1·o tempm·e. The point is made that no quorum 

has voted. 

Mr. )TEAL. I move, then, that the House adjourn. The motion wa agreed to; and accordingly (at nine o'clock and 

fifty-five minutes p. m.) the House adjourned. 

PETmONS~ ETC. 

The following memorials, petitions, and other papers were laid on the Clerk's desk, under the rule, and referred as follows : By 1\fr. BAYNE: Papers of S. S. Marvin, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, r elative to second-class mail matter-to the Committee on the 

Post-Office and Post-Roads. 

Also, the resolutions of the Chamber of Commerce of Pittsburgh, 

Pennsylvania, relating to the Geneva award-to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By 1\fr. BEACH: The petition of 40 citizens of Newbury, and 20 

citizens of Haverstraw, New York, for the repeal of the tax on bank 

deposits, and two-cent stamp on bank checks and drafts-to \he 

Committee on Ways and Means. By J\.fr. BLACKBURN: Papers relating to the claim of Rudolph 

Lo bseger, a citizen of the Swiss Confederation-to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. 

By 1\fr. BLISS: The petition of 440 citizens of Brooklyn, Green Point, 

and Flushing, Long Island, for the repeal of the tax on bank deposits 

and the two-cent stamp on bank checks and drafts-to the Committee on Ways and 1\Ieans. 

By 1\Ir. CORNELL: The petition of 40 citizens of Kingston, and 

of Egbert & 'Vhittaker, of Saugerties, New York, for the repeal of 

' 
1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 1411 

the tax on bank deposits and the two-cent stamp on bank checks 

and drafts-to the same committee. 

By Mr. DEZENDORF: Papers relating to the claim of R. I. Sanders-to the Committee on War Claims. 

Also, papers relating to the claim of Fred. N. Gray and of John 

Morrisett-severally to the Committee on Claims. 

By Mr. ERRETT : The resolutions of the Chamber of Commerce of 

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, relative to the distribution of the Geneva 

award-to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By Mr. FORNEY: The petition of John C. Orr, J. M. Jackson, and 

others, citizens of Alabama, praying for a grant of lands to aid in the construction efthe Alabama and Georgia Railroad-to the Committee on the Public Lands. 

By Mr. GARRISON: The petition of citizens of Accomack County, 

Virginia, for an appropriation for dredging Hunting Creek-to the 

Committee on Commerce. 

By l'tfr. J. HAMMOND: The petition of 40 citizens of Fort Edward, of 80 citizens of Glens Falls, and of 20 citizens of Whitehall, New 

York, for the repeal of the tax on bank deposits and the two-cent 

stamp on checks and drafts-to the Committee on Ways andl\Jeans. 

By Mr. HARMER : Memorial of the American Baptist Home Mis- sion Society, representing a church membership of 1,000,000 and a con- stituency of 5,000,000, asking that measures be taken to remove and prohibit tke practice of polygamy and its accompanying vices 

throughout the country-to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

Also, two petitions embra{}ing the names of 1,160 citizens of Philadelphia, for the repeal of the tax on bank deposits and the two-cent 

stamp on bank checks and drafts-severally to the Committee on Ways and Means. 

By Mr. HISCOCK: The petition of 320 citizens of Syracuse, New 

York, for the repeal of the tax on banks and the two-cent stamp on bank checks and drafts-to the same committee. 

By Mr. HOUK: Papers relating to the claim of Simeon S. Barrettto the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. HUMPHREY: The petitions of 40 citizens of Green Bay and 

of 40 citizens of La Crosse, Wisconsin, for the repeal of the tax on bank deposits and the two-cent stamp on bank checks and draftsseverally to the Committee on Ways and Means. 

By Mr. KETCHAM: The petitions of E. P. Pelton and 186 others, 

citizens of Poughkeepsie, and of citizens of Hudson, New York, for the repeal of the tax on bank deposits and the two-cent stamp on bank 

checks and drafts-to the same committee. 

By 1\Jr. LATHAM: The petition of citizens of North Carolina, for au appropriation for the improvement of Pamlico and Tar Rivers- to the Committee on Commerce. 

Also, the petition of citizens of North Carolina, for the establish- ment of a post-route from Farmville to Greenville, North Carolinato the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. 

By 1\Ir. LINDSEY: The petitions of citizens of Boston, of Bootk 

Bay, of Bangor, of Ellsworth, of Castine, of Saint Geor~e, of Bath, of 

Rockport, ofWaldoborough, of Searsport, ofCamdtm, of Matinicus, of 

Winterport, of Vinalhaven; of Hampden, of Ferry Village, of North 

Haven, of Rocklandz of Kittery, and of Bristol, Maine, for the erec- tion of a light on Little Ram Island, at the entrance of Booth Bay 

Harbor-severally to the Committee on Commerce. 

By Mr. LORD: The petition of.A.llen Shelden, S.D. Elwood, and600 

others, citizens of Detroit, Michigan, for the repeal of the tax on bank 

deposits and the two-cent stamp on bank checks and drafts-to the 

Committee on Ways and Means. 

By Mr. M.ARTIN: The petition of Alexander Jackson, jr., and 103 

others, and of James L. Heverin and 200 others, citizens of Delaware, 

for the improvement of Saint John's River, in the State of Delawareto the Committee on Commerce. 

By Mr.l\fcKENZIE : Papers relating to the claim ofW . .A.. Eastonto the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. MOULTON: The petition of 240 citizens of Paris, illinois, 

for the repeal of the tax on bank deposits and the two-cent stamp on bank checks and drafts-to the Committee on Ways and Means. 

By 1\Ir. NEAL: The petition of the American Chamber of Commerce, banker~>, manufacturers, and agriculturists, for the appointment of a commission to revise the tariff-to the same committee. 

AJ o, the petition of William F. Wilson, praying that he may be li~ved of the charge of desertion-to the Committee on Military .A.tfatrs. , By Mr. NOLAN: The petition of G. Birch and others, t() •duce 

the duties on sugar to a rate not exceeding 25 per cent. ad valoremto the Committee on Ways and Means. 

Also the petitions of John G. Ward and others, onV. H. Ferguson & 

Bros. and others, and of .A.. V. Mynderse and others, citizens of New 

York, for the repeal of section 5, chapter 125, of the laws of 1879, so as to permit the use of alcoholic spirits in manufacturing vinegar- severally to the same coffilnittee. 

Also, the petition of 350 citizens of Albany and of 40 citizens of 

Cohoes, New York, for the repeal of the tax on bank deposits and 

the two-cent stamp on bank-chocks-to the same committee. 

By Mr. ORTH: The petition of D. H. Olive, for relief-to the Com-

-mittee on 'Var Claims. 

By Mr. PHELPS: Thepetitionof240citizensofNewHaven, Connecticut, for the repeal of the tax on bank deposits and the two-cent 

stamp on bank checks and drafts-to the Committee on Ways and 

Means. 

By Mr. PRESCOTT: The petitions of 280 citizens of Rome, and of 

280 citizens of Ut.ica, New York, for the repeal of the tax on banks 

and the two-cent stamp on bank checks and drafts-severally to the same committee. 

By Mr. RICH: The petition of 104 citizens of Simada, Macomb 

County, Michigan, for legislation for the suppression of polygamyto the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By l\lr. ROBERTSON: Papers relating to the contested-election case of Elam vs. Smith in the Forty-fifth Congress-to the Committee on Elections. 

By Mr. SCOVILLE: The petition of the members of the Ministers' 

Union of Buffalo, New York, for legislation for the suppression of 

polygamy-to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By .Mr. SHULTZ: Papers relating to the claim of W. T. Alexander-to the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. SKINNER: The petition of citizens of Little Falls and of 

citizens of Ilion, New York, for the repeal of the tax on banks, and 

the two-cent st.amp on bank checks and drafts-severally to the 

Committee on Ways and Means. 

By 1\h' . .A.. HERR Sl\1ITH: The petition of a temperance convention, 

held at York, Pennsylvania, which was attended by 300 persons, asking for a constitutional amendment prohibiting the manufacture and 

sale of alcoholic liquors-to the Committee on the Alcoholic Liquor 

Traffic. 

By Mr. SPRINGER: The petition of citizens of Springfield, Illinois, 

for the pa-ssage of the McKinley bill, fixing the rates of duties on manufactures of iron, steel, &c.-to the Committee on Ways and 

Means. • By Mr. TALBOTT: Papersrelating totheclaimof John B. Brownt-o the Committee on Claims. 

By Mr. URNER: Papers relating to the application of H. H. Blackburn to restore certain causes to the docket of the Court of Claims, 

and to provide for the hearing thereof-to the Committee on the 

Judiciary. -

By Mr. WARNER: Papers relating to the claim of Mrs. Jane Yenable-to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. 

By Mr. WASHBURN : The resolutions of the Congregational Club 

of Saint Paul, Minnesota, demanding the suppression of polygamy 

in Utah- to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By 1\h'. C. G. WILLIAMS: Papers relating to the claim of Edwin 

De Leon-to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. 

By Mr. 'VILSON: The petition of Thomas Doll(~van and 125 others, 

citizens of Brook County, West Virginia, for legislation to regulate 

charges for freight and passenger traffic on railroads-to the Committee on Commerce. 

Also, the petition of Anderson Langford, for a pension-to the Committee on In valicl Pensions. 

By Mr. G. D. WISE: Papers relating to the claim of Mrs. Bettie 

T. Gibson-to the Committee on Claims. 

SENATE. 

FRIDAY, February 24, 1882. 

Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. J. J. BULLOCK, D. D. 

The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE. 

.A. mossage from the House of Representatives, by Mr. McPHERSON, 

its Clerk, announcerl. that the House had concurred in the amendment of the Senate to the bill (H. R. No. 3210) in reference t-o the 

trustees of the Lincoln MonUIDent Association. 

The roes age also announced that the Hou e had passed the joint 

resolution (S. R. No. 41) authorizing the Secretary of War to use rations for the relief of destitute persons in the districts overflowed 

by the Mississippi River. 

El\'"ROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

The message further a.nnl)unced that the Speaket of the House had 

signed the following enrolled bills; and they were thereupon signed 

by the President p1·o tempore : .A. bill (H. R. No. 3210) in reference to the trustees of the Lincoln 

Monument Association ; and 

.A. bill (H. R. No. 2944) authorizing the Lanca-ster National Bank, 

of Lancaster, Ma saohusetts, to change its location and name. 

EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATION. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore laid before the Senate a communication from the Attorney-General, transmitting, in response to resolution of the 19th ultimo, the official report of C. C. Lancaster, jr., in 

relation to t.he conduct of judicial officers and their accounts in Alabama; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, and 

ordered to be printed. 

PROPOSED ADJOURNl\IENT TO MO~DA Y. 

Mr. AJ\TTHONY. I move that when the Senate adjourn to-day it 

be to meet on Monday next. 

Mr. INGALLS. What is that motion f