6086 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Mr. COCKRELL. The appropriation provided for in the joint resolution was an amendment, I believe, to the deficiency bill agreed to 

by the Senate. That amendment i.n that bill was submitted to the 

House conferees. It was disagreed. to with a full knowledge and with 

all the information we now have upon it. The Senate necessarily bad 

to recede. What has changed the views of the House in regard to the 

matter I do not know. It is a remarkable proceeding. Believing that 

we were doing justice and were right ~ placing the amendment on the 

bill and insisting upon holding it there as long as we could, and that 

the conferees were wrong then and the Hou e is right now in passing 

the measure, I shall not object to its consideration, but simply ask that a provision be put in to make the District liable to one-half of it. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. HAWLEY in the chair). Is there 

objection to the second reading of the joint resolution? The Chair 

hears none. · The joint resolution was read the second time, and the Senate, as in 

Committee of the Whole, proceeded to its consideration. 

Mr. COCKRELL. I find in looking at the resolution that the provision is sufficient. 

The joint resolution was reported to the Senate, ordered to a third 

reading, read the third time, and passed. 

EXECUTIVE SESSIO:N. 

Mr. HOAR. I rise to move an adjournment until 9 o'clock to-mor-

' row, if there be no objection on the part of the Senator from Iowa. 

Several SEN A TORS. Ten. 

Mr. ALLISON. I see no objection to the motion unless it should 

turn out that the House should disagree to our amendment to the 

naval bill just passed, and in that case it might be necessary to have 

another conference. 

Mr. HOAR. This will give three hours before 12 for that purpose. 

Mr . .ALLISON. Very well. 

Mr. HOAR. I move that the Senate adjourn until 9 o'clock to-morrow. Mr. SHERMAN. Before that motion is put I ask whether any hour 

has been fixed for final adjournment? 

Mr. ALLISON. No hour has been fixed for final adjournment, and 

I think none should be fixed to-night. 

Mr. COCKRELL. I hope the Senator from Massachusetts will say 

10 o'clock. 

Mr. HOAR. It ought to be 9. 

Mr. MORGA.J.'{. Weought to have a brief executive session . . I hope 

the Senator from Massachusetts will allow us to have a brief executive 

session. 

Mr. :S:OAR. I will modify my motion and move that the Senate proceed to the consideration of execqtive busine . The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the motion of the 

Senator from Ma.Ssachusetts that the Senate proceed to the consideration of executive business. 

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the consideration of executive busines . After eight minutes spent in execut~ve 

session the doors were reopened; when, on motion of Mr. HOAR (at 11 

o'clock and 20 minutes p. m., Sunday, July 6) the Senate adjourned 

to meet at 10 o'clock a. m. on l\IQnday, July 7. 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 

SATURDAY, July 5, 1884. 

The House met at 9 o'clock a.m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. 

JOHNS. LINDSAY, D. D. 

The Journal of the proceedings of Thursday last was read and approved. 

SEN ATE REPORT ON LABOR .AND CAPITAL. 

The SPEAKER laid before the House the following resolution of the 

Senate; which was referred to the Committee on Printing: 

Resolved by the Senate {the House of .Representatives concurring), That the report 

of the Senate Committee on Education and Labor on the relations between labor 

and capital, with the a ccompanying testimony, be printed; and that 25,000 additional copies be printed, of which 8,000 shall be for the use of the Senate, 16,000 

for the u e of the Hou e of Repre entatives, and 1,000 copies for the use of the 

Senate Committee on Education and Labor. 

IRRIGATIO:N IN CALIFORIA. 

The SPEAKER also laid before the House the following resolution of 

the Senate; which was refened to the Committee on Printing: 

Resolved by the Senate (the House o.f Rep1·estmtatives concurring), That there be 

})rinted 2,000 copies of Executive Document No. 290, first session Forty-third 

Congress, relat.ingto irrigation of the San Joaquin, Tulare, and Sacramento Valleys, California, of which 1,000 copies shall be for the use of the Senate and 1,000 

copies for the use of the Honse. 

WASHINGTON AND GEORGETOW.~: RAILROAD CO}IPANY. 

The SPEAKER also laid before the House a communication from 

the president of the Washington and Georgetown Railroad Company, 

transmitting the treasurer's annual report of the company's receipts 

and disbursements for the year ending December 31, 1883; which was 

referred to the Committee on the District of Columbia. 

ORDER OF BUSTh""ES . 

1\Ir . . RANDALL. I move that the House take a recess until 11 

o'clock this morning. 

Mr. STRUBLE. I ask unanimous consent to make a report from 

the Committee on Pensions. 

The SPEAKER. .A. motion for a recess is pending. 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. I move that the morning hour be dispensed 

with. 

The SPEAKER. That motion is not in order pending a motion for 

a recess. 

The question being taken on the motion of l\Ir. RANDALL, there 

were-ayes 26, noes 11. 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. No quorum. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Illinois [.M:r. TOWNSHE "D J 

makes the point that no quorum has voted. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Can we not dispense with the morning hour by 

unanimous consent and then take a recess? 

U.r. TOWNSHEND. I am willing that shall be done. 

The SPEAKER. The House can do almost anything by unanimous 

consent. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I ask unanimous consent that the morning hour 

be dispensed with. 

Several members objected . . [Cries of" Regular order!"] 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is the motion for the recess. Mr. 1\Icl\IILLIN. I understand that the point of no quorum is 

withdrawn. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will put the motion aga~ 

The question being · again put on the m9tion of Mr. RANDALL that 

the House take a recess until 11 o'clock a. m., it was agreed to; and a recess was accordingly taken. · 

The recess ha$g expired, the Hou e at 11 o'clock a. m. resumed its 

session. · 

WITHDRAWAL OF PAPERS. 

11Ir. WILSON, of Iowa, by unanimous consent,· obtained leave to · 

withdraw from the files of the House papers in the case of Barbara A. 

Cheney. 

INVE TIGATIOY OF PACIFIC RAILROADS. 

Mr. THOMPSON. I ask unanimous consent for the consideration and 

adoption of a resolution proposing an investigation to obtain information needed by the Pacific Railroads Committee and which can not be 

obtained without an investigation of this kind. This information is 

important in its connection with bills which have been before us for some time to regulate freight and fares on these roads; and it is also desirable to obtain information whether the late report made by Government experts was in any way modified, suppressed, or changed. I send 

the resolution to the desk and ask unanimous consent forits immediate 

consideration and adoption. 

Mr. DUNN. I do not object to any resolution p:roposinganecessary 

investigation. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. TROMP ON] 

asks unanimous consent for the immediate consideration of a resolution 

which will be read, after which the Chair will ask for objection. 

The Clerk read as tollow : 

.Resolved, That the Speaker of this House appoint a committee of five mem- bers from the Committee on Pacific Railroads to investi~te the affairs of the 

Union Pacific Railway Company, _the Central Pacific Railroad Company, and 

Northern Pacific Railroad Company, and report what was the cost of building 

the same, whether at any time the net earnings of said roads have in either case been greater than 10 per cent. of its cost after deducting all expenditures, &c., a provided in the act of 1862, and whether the right to reduce and fix by law 

the rates of fare on said roads, or either of them, has accrued and should be ex- ercised by the United States; also, whether the recent report of the Go·vern- ment accountants was suppressed, withheld, altered, or modified by any one; if so, by whom and at whose instance and for what purpo e; and whether any contract or combination was entered into between any of the officials of said 

railroads and any officer of the Government, or arrangements made to delay or influence action upon the part of Congress in regard to said roads, and w bet her any of the funds or securities of either of said roads ha'\"e been in any way misappropriated or misapplied; and for this purpose they may send for persons and papers, swear witnesses, employ clerk , accountants, and other nece sary 

labor, may visit and hold meetingS:on any portion of said roads in cities in which 

their papers are kept during the recess of Congress; and the expenses of aid 

investigation, not to exceed SlO,OOO, hall be paid out of the contingent fund of 

the House. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the pre ent consideration of 

this resolution? 

Mr. BELFORD. I wish to make an inquiry in regard to this reso- lution. 

1\Ir. THO~IPSON. Let the resolution first come before the House, 

and if the gentleman wishes to move an amendment I will yield to him 

for that purpose. 

Ur. BELFORD. I will take my chance now. I do not wish to put an amendment in. I wish to inquire whether there is not in the Treasury Department a railroad commissioner who makes every year a re- port to the Government. 

Mr. THOMPSON. Yes, i.r. 

Mr. BELFORD. .As to the condition of all these railroads? 

1\Ir. THOMPSON. But, sir, it is so insufficient on the very points 

which we desire to investigate that we have been induced to make this 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6087 

request for additional information. There is no information in the Railroad Commissioner's report relatingtotherates of fare; noneat all, sir; 

and therefore we have asked to make'this investigation. We have had 

these bills before us and we h.ave not had any data upon which we can report to the House any legislation. We have to make this investigation before we will be able to submit any report to the House for action 

which will be at all atisfactory. · 

1\fr. BELFORD. I understand this Government made appropriation 

to aid in the construction of the Union Pacific Raihoad--

1\Ir. McCOID. I object. 

1\fr. BELFORD. And the Central Pacific Railroad. 

1\Ir. THO~IP ON. I hope the gentleman from Iowa will let the 

resolution pass. 

1\Ir. BELFORD. I hope the gentleman will be willing to let the res- olution be considered. 

Mr. McCOID. It is unnecessary. It is too late a day in the session 

to provide for a junketing expedition. 

Mr. THOMPSON. I wish to say to the gentleman from Iowa [cries 

of'' Regular order. ' 1] that there is no junketing expedition about it. 

[Cries of "Regular order! "] This investigation is absolutely demanded. [Cries of" Regular order!"] 

The SPEAKER. The regular order has been demanded and there 

is nothing before the House. 

EXPLANATION. 

l\Ir. STEELE. La t night during the call of the roll I stated that I 

was paired with my colleague, 1\Ir. LAMB, and fot that reason I wished 

to withdraw my vote unless necessary to make a quorum. Afterward I 

stated that as Mr. LAMB and myself would vote the same way I would 

let my vot.e stand. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. WILSON, of Iowa. I hope, l\Ir. Speaker, that every gentleman 

present to-day will vote to make a quorum, as that is understood in 

every pair which has been made between members. 

Mr. REED demanded the regular .order of business. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I move to dispense with the morning hour. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 49, noes 36. 

So (two-thirds not having voted in the affirmative) the morning hour was not dispensed with. 

Mr. TOWNSHE~D. Let us have the regular order of business. 

The SPEAKER. The regular order of business is the call of com- mittees for reports. 

LEAVE OF ABSE:YCE. 

Mr. TULLY, by unanimous consent, was granted indefinite leave of 

absence on account of important business. 

LEAVE TO PRI:YT. 

Mr. YOUNG, by unanimous consent, was granted leave to print in 

the RECORD some remarks on the Mexican pension bill. 

CRAIG VS. SHELLEY. 

Mr. TURNER, of Georgia. In behalf of my colleague on the Committee on Elections [:1\ir. DAVIS, of Missouri] I desire to submit a re~ 

port from that committee in the case of Craig against Shelley, of Alabama. 

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read the resolution accompanying 

the report. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, That Charles M. Shelley was not elected a Representative in the 

Forty-eighth Congress from the fourth district of Alabama, and is not entitled to a seat in said Congress. 

Resolved, That George A. Craig was elected a Representative in the Fortyeighth Congress from the fourth district of Alabama, and is entitled to a seat in 

said Congress. 

The report was ordered to be printed. 

:Mr. BE.NNETT, by unanimous consent, presented the views ofthe 

minority, which were also ordered to be printed with the report of the 

committee. • 

DELEGATE FROM MONTANA. 

Mr. RANNEY, by'unanimous consent, from the Committee on Elections, submitted a report, accompanied by the following resolution: 

Resolved, That 1\Iartin 1\Iaginnis was duly elected as a Delegate from the Ter- ritory of Montana. in the Forty-eighth Congress, and is entitled to a. seat as said 

Delegate. 

1\fr. RANNEY. The committee was unanimous in that report, and I 

presume there will be no objectio~ to its adoption at this time. 

The SPEAKER. It would be irregular to do so during the call of 

committees for reports, but it can be called up again. 

PRAIRIE BAND OF POTTA WATOl\IIE INDIANS. 

Mr. PERKINS (by 1\ir. FUNSTON), from the Committee on Indian 

Affairs, reported back with an amendment the bill (H. R. 3622) to provide for the sale of the lands belonging to the Prairie Band of Pottawatomie Indians in Kansas; which was referred to the House Calendar, 

and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

GEORGE K. OTIS. 

Mr. LEWIS (by Mr. SCALES), from the Committee on the Public 

Lands, reported back favorably the bill (H. R. 442) to authorize the 

Secretary of the Interior to issue to George K. Otis duplicates of certain land-warrants lost while in the possession of the officers of the Government; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House 

on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to 

be printed. 

PUBLIC BUILDIKG1 LYNN, !ASS. 

Mr. WEMPLE (by Mr. REESE), from the Committee on Public 

Buildings and Grounds, reported back .fuvorably the bill (H. R. 4781) 

for the erection of a post-office building at Lynn, Mass.; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, 

and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

PUBLIC BUILDIKG1 WILKES BARRE, P A. 

Mr. P EY, from the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds, 

reported back with amendments the bill (H. R. 5138) for the purchase 

of a site and the erection of a public builmng at the city of Wilkes 

Barre, Pa.; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House 

on the state of the Union, and, with the accompanying report, ordered 

to be printed. 

W.ASHI:YGTON1S HEADQUARTERS, MORRISTOWN, N. J. 

Mr. KEAN, from the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds, 

reported back the joint resolution (H. Res. 197) authorizing the Secretary of War to assist in canceling the debt and in enlarging and improving .the grounds and collections of Washington'S" Headquarters in 

Morristown, N. J., and in securing suitable ground in which to gather 

the remain of Revolutionary soldiers there buried, and in erecting a monument over the same; which was referred to the Committee of the 

Whole House on the state of the Union, and, with the accompanying 

report, ordered to be printed. 

PUBLIC DUILDING1 PLYMOUTH, MASS. 

Mr. HOPKINS,fromtheCommitteeonPublicBuildingsandGrounds, 

reported, a a substitute for H. R. 4095, a bill (H. R. 7506) for a ~ublic building at Plymouth, Mass.; which was referred to the Comm1ttee 

of the Whole House on the state of the Union, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

PUBLIC BUILDING, 'LA FAYETTE, IND. 

Mr. HOPKINS, from the Committee on Public Builmngs and Grounds, 

also reported back with amendments the bill (H. R. 5486) fo:r.the purchase of a site and the erection of a public building thereon in the city 

of La Fayette, Ind.; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole 

House on the state of the Union, and, with the accompanying report, 

ordered to be printed. 

~TERI.AL FOR PUBLIC BUILDINGS. 

Mr. HOPKINS, from the Committee on Public Buildings and 

Grounds, also reported back, with the recommendation that it be 

adopted, a resolution reterred to said committee directing an inquiry 

into all matters pertaining to workmanship, the furnishing of material 

and quality of the same, for the construction of public buildings, and 

also with reference to expenses pertaining to the same; which was 

ordered to be printed, and referred to the House Calendar. 

PETER M. HAGLER. 

1\fr. CULLEN, from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, reported 

back the bill {H. R. 252) granting a pension to Peter M. Hagler; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

CAROLINE HIGGERSON. 

:Mr. CULLEN, from theCommitteeonlnvalidPensions, also reported 

back the bill {H. R. 1856) granting a pension to Caroline Higgerson; 

which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to' be printed. 

CANADIAN RECIPROCITY TREATY. 

:Mr. HITT {in behalf of Mr. BELMONT), from the Committee on Foreign Affairs, reported back the joint resolution (H. Res. 32) requesting 

the President to negotiate with Great Britain for a renewal of the Canadian reciprocity treaty of 1884; which was referred to the House Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

WILSON W. BROWN AND OTHERS. 

Mr. LEFEVRE, from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, reported 

back with a favorable recommendation the bill (S. 337) granting a pension to Wilson W. Brown and others; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accom- panying report, ordered to be printed. 

JA::\IES KING. 

1\fr. LEFEVRE, from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, also reported back with favorable recommendation the bill (S. 2049) grantihg a pension to James King; which was referred to the Committee of 

the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying 

report, ordered to be printed. 

JEREMIAH l\11 CARTY. 

l\1r. STRUBLE, from the Committee on Pensions reported back with 
., 

6088 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

amendments the bill (H. R. 6029) for the relief of Jeremiah McCarty; 

which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

CLAIMS REFERRED UNDER THE BOWMAN ACT. 

Mr. McMILLIN. Mr. Speaker, on. behalf of the Committee on Claims, I desire to submit a report with reference to the claims referred 

by that committee to the Court of Claims, under the act of March 3, 

1883, with an a-ccompanying statement. While there is no rule that 

requires this report to be made, I think it is one that ought to be made 

for the informatio~ of the House, and I understand the Committee on Rules have prepared and are ready to report a rule to cover the case. The SPEAKER. The report will be printed in the Journal if there 

be no objection. 

There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. 

THEODORE TEED. 

Mr. V .AN .ALSTYNE, from the Committee on Claims, reported a 

bill (H. R. 7507) for the relief of Theodore Teed; which was read a first and second time, referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the a-ccompanying report, ordered to 

be printed. H. J. T. MOSS. 

1\-Ir. V .AN .ALSTYNE, from the Committee on Claims, also reported 

back the bill (H. R. 6661) for the relief of H. J. T. Moss; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying repprt, ordered to be .printed. 

G. ALEXANDER RAMSEY. 

Mr. V .AN ALSTYNE, from the Committee on Claims, also reported 

back with amendments the bill (H. R. 2200) providing for the relief 

of G . .Alexander Ramsey; which -was referred to the Committee of the 

Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying 

report, ordered to be printed. 

ISSUE OF DUPLICATE CHECKS. 

Mr. V .AN ALSTYNE, from the Committee on Claims, also reported 

back with a favorable recommendation the bill (S. 1705) to provide for 

the issue of duplicate checks; which was referred to the House Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

PRESENTATION OF COMMITTEE REPORTS. 

Mr. SMITH, from the Committee on Printing, reported back with 

amendments the joint resolution (H. Res. 263) providing for the preservation of reports of committees; which was referred to the Committee 

of the Whole House on the state of the Union, and, with the a-ccompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

COLLECTION AND INDEXING OF COMMITTEE REPORTS. 

:Mr. SMITH, from the Committee on Printing, also reported a joint 

resolution (H. Res. 285) providing for the collection and indexing of 

the repo:r:ts of committees; which was read a first and second time, referred to the Committee of the Whole House 011 the state of the Union, 

and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

JOHN DAILY. 

Mr. HENLEY, from the Committee on the Public Lands, reported 

back the bill (H. R. 2916) for the relief of John Daily; which wasre- ferred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, 

and, with theaccompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

FLAVIA A. HASKELL. 

Mr. SUMNER, of Wisconsin, from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, reported back with a. favorable recommendation the bill (S. 1627) 

granting a pension to Flavia .A. Haskell; which wa.s referred to the 

Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the 

accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

JOHN F. DENSON. 

Mr. BROWN, of Pennsylvania, from the Committee on Claims, re- ported back with a favorable recommendation the bill (H. R. 4316) for 

t he relief of John F. Denson; which was reterred to the Committee of 

the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying 

report, ordered to be printed. -

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

By nn~ous consent, indefinite leave of absence was granted to 

Mr. STORM, on account of sickness. 

ENROLL.ED BILLS ·SIGNED. 

Mr. PETERS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the committee had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the 

House of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: 

A bill (H.' R. 137) for the relief of Betsy .A. fower; 

.A bill (H. R.. 284) for the relief of Mary G. Hawk; 

.A bill (H. R. 569) granting a pension to Reuben Marshall; 

A bill (H. R. 709) granting a pension to Robert L. Willey; A bill (H. R. 747) granting an increase of pension to FannieS. Beaumont; 

.A bill (H. R. 2089) granting a pension to Margaret Wiggins; 

.A bill (H. R. 2091) granting a pension to Mrs. Rebecca Hall; 

.A bill (H. R. 3056) to constitute a bureau of navigation in the Treasury Department; 

.A bill (H. R. 2869) for increase of pension of Martha Stribling, widow 

of Cornelius K. Stribling, late a rear-admiral in the United St:.ates Navy; 

.A bill (H. R. 4457) granting a pension to J. G. Crawford; 

.A bill (H. R. 4530l granting an increase of pension to Patrick Foley; '.A billlH. R. 4568 granting a pension to Andrew J. Konkle; 

.A bill H. R. 6766 granting a pension to Mrs . .Anna J. Foster; and 

.A bill H. R. 6767) granting an increase of pension to Mrs. Virginia 

Zeilin. 

PRINTING OF DIGEST. 

Mr. REED. I ask unanimous consent to report from the Committee on Rules for present consideration the resolution which I send to the 

desk. 

The resolution was read, as follows: 

Re.solved, That 2,500 copies of the Digest of the second session of t.he Forty- eighth Congress be printed and bound for the use of t.he House at said session. 

Mr. REED. This is simply to print the usual number of copies of 

the Digest for the next sess}on. 

Mr. COX, of New York. That is all right. 

The resolution was adopted. 

Mr. REED moved to reconsider the vote just taken; and also moved 

that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

:Mr. V .ANCE. I ask unanimous consent to call up a bill from the 

Calendar to relieve a gentleman of his disabilities. It will not take a. moment. 

Mr. DUNN. I call for the regular order. 

Mr. PETERS. I desire to present a bill for reference. I understand 

the gentleman from .Arkansas (Mr. DUNN] does not object to the inboduction of bills for reference. 

There was no objection. 

UNITED STATES COURTS I:S WASHINGTON TERRITORY. 

Mr. PETERS, by unanimous consent, introduced a bill (H. R. 7508) 

in relation to the appointment of clerks to the United States district 

courts in Washington Territory; which was read a first and second time, 

referred to the Committee on the Territories, and ordered to be printed. 

ANNIE HOLBORN. 

Mr. PERKINS, from the Committee on Indian .Affairs, reported ba-ck 

with a favorable recommendation the bill (H. R. 4774) for the relief of 

.Annie Holborn; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole 

House on the· Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, 

<]rdered to be printed. 

CONTESTED ELECTION-BOTKIN VS. MAGINNIS. 

The SP,EAKER. The regular order is demanded. The regular order is the consideration of the contested-election case reported by the 

gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. RANNEY]. 

The report is as follows: 

Mr. RANNEY, from the Committee on Elections, submitted t.he following re- port: Martin Maginnis and A. C. Botkin, respectively the candidates of the Demo- cratic and Republican parties for member of the Forty-eighth Congress in l\Ion- tana. Territory. In a. total vote of 23,318, Mr. Maginnis was declared by the proper authorities to have been elected by a majority of 1,4B4 votes. 

Mr. Botkin, contesting, in his notice of grounds of contest says: 

NOTICE OF OONTRST. 

HELENA, MONT., December30,1882. 

SIR: You will please take notice that I will contest your election and return as Delegate to the Forty-eighth Congress for the Territory of Montana. The 

grounds upon which I rely in said contest are as follows: 1. That a. large number of illegal and fraudulent votes, to wit, three thousand 

(3,000), were cast, counted, and canvassed for you in t.he counties of Custer, Da.w.-

son, and Missoula, in said Territory. 2. That polling places were established in the counties of Custer, Dawson, and Missoula aforesaid without authority of Jaw, and in violation of the statutes of 

Montana Territory, at which polling places a large number of votes, to wit, two 

thousand (2,000), were cast, counted, and canvassed for you. 3. Tha.t the precinct or polling place designated as Crosil River, and alleged in 

the return to be in Gallatin County, in said Territory, was situate upon an Indian 

reservation, to wit, upon the reserve for the Crow Indians, at which said pre- cinct or polling place 295 votes were cast, counted, and canvassed for you, and 79 for this contestant. 4. That in the counties of Custer, Gallatin, and Missoula men employed in the 

construction and operation of the Northern Pacific Railroad were coerced to 

vote for you by intimidation and threats of discharge from contractors, subcon- .tractors, and other employers. 5. That the votes cast in the several counties of the said Territory were not 

counted, returned, and canvassed in accordance with law. 

Very respectfully, ALEXANDER C. BOTKIN. 

Hon. l\IARTIN MAGDi'l'i'IS . 

The committee are of the opinion that there is such a want of particularity in all of the assignments save the third that they might well be disregarded. But, waiving the question of particularity, the committee conclude tlw.t the polling places established in the counties of Custer, Dawson, and :Missoula were not without authority of law. WerP-ga.rd the statute prescribing that precincts shall 

be established u.t the regular meeting immediately preceding the general election to be directory rather than mandatory in its character. And, following the 

familiar rule in such cases, we do not hesitate to say that their designation at 

another time, in the interests of a free and convenient ballot, was such an exer-
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6089 

cise of power as the commissioners might well indulge in. However this inay 

be the committee do not find that there was any wrong or iajury done, or that 

th~re was any fraud in the matter. The statute referred to is as follow : . "SEC. 5. It shall be the duty of the comm~ioners of the sev~ral countie~, at their 

regular session immediately preceding said general electiOn, to appomt three 

discreet and capable persons, possessing the q ualificati<?ns of electors, to _act as judges of election in each township or-precinct; and sa1d board shall designate one or more of said judges, whose duty it shall be to post up, or cause to be posted up, in each precinct or township, notices of election in the manner ~eremaft~r 

provided. Said board of commi.ssioners shall also set off and establish at smd 

meeting townships or precincts when the same may be necessary. And the 

clerk of said board shall make out and forward by mail, immediately after t"f:le 

appointment of said judges, a notice thereof in writing dire~ted to each of said 

judges so appointed. In case there shall be no P<? t-office many one or more of the townships or precincts _in any county,_ then m that event the clerk sh..<tll 

forward notices of such appomtment by mail to the post-office nearest to such 

precinct or township, direc!'C~ to the judges as aforesaid. Ifinanyofthe town- ships or precincts any of sa.IdJudge refuse or neglect to serve, the votersofs~ch township or precinct may elect a judge or judges to fill vacancies on the mormog 

of t-he election to serve at such elections. 

* • * * • * * 

"SEC. 1~ It shall be lawful for any elector to vote for Delegate to Congress ~t 

any place of holding elections in this Territory, and for members of the Legislative .Assembly, and all otb!'lr officers at any place for ho~din~ elections within 

the particular limits for which such meiD;ber of the Legtslnhve .As_sembly and 

such other officers are to oe elected: Provided, That an elector qualified to vote for part and not all of the officers to be cho en at any election shall vote an open ballot, and the judges may _determine t.be leg~pty o~ such vote." . . There is some proof tendmg to how that old1ers" voted at thiS election. In the opinion of witnesses these "soldiers" were from forty to one hundred 

and fifty in number. We do not feel that we are justified in presuming that 

because the contestant and his witnesses have seen fit to designate these per- sons as soldiers that the-y are therefore necessarily incompetent as electors. In his description of th.em, an? of their qualifica~ions as elect?rs, cont.estant has contented himself w1th saymg they were soldiers. There IS no ev1dence 

that they were not residents of the Te~ritory;. that they _had ';lot been rt;sid~n~s 

of the Territory long prior t_o any coh;>tment m the TI_mted States s~~ce, 1f It is claimed that they were m the mt-ed States serVIce-a propos1bon by no means clear in the light of the proofs. But if it is admitted that they were en- listed men of the United States .Army, and are therefore incompetent as elect. ors the committee are still left in doubt as to how and for whom these incompeten't electors cast their b~~ollots. Your committee are not willing to say, in the light of the proofs, that the ap- parently large vote at Miles City and at other new towns along the line of t~e 

railway indicate illegal voting. Under the law of the Territory t?e voters ?Id not need to be residents where they voted. In all new countries the votmg 

population is large compared with the entire population. The rule that one in 

five of the total population i a voter, that holds good in the older and more densely populated portions of the United States, is not a true rule in the new and sparsely settled regions. In the latter the male adults are much more nu- merous, and the argument that cont-estfmt attempts to m~ke by showing the 

total population and the total vote we regard as an unfau one, and refuse to give it the weight he desires we should. Your committee do not find that illegal and fraudulent vote!! were cast for ihe contestee in Custer, Dawson, and l\1i&.c;oula Counties. In our judgment, the 

proofs are entirely wanting to show that in Custer, Gallatin, and Missoula Counties men employed in the con traction and operation of the Northern Pacific 

Railroad were coerced to vote for contestee by intimidation and threats of discharge by contrad.ors, subcontractors1 or other employers. In our judgment, no proofs are adduced establishing thiS ground of contest. So far as we may judge from the evidence introduced and the argument of 

counsel, the fifth assignmant, namely, that the votes cast in the seyeral counties 

of the said Territory were not count-ed, returned, and canvassed m accordance 

with law, has been abandoned by contestant. We do not find anything in the 

record tending to sustain this allegation. The committee are therefore unanimous in the opinion that the following resolution should be reported to and be adopted by the House: " Resolved, That Martin Maginnis was duly elected as a Delegate from the 

Territocy' of Montana in the Forty-eighth Congress, and is entitled to his seat as such Delegate." 

The resolution was read, a.s follows: 

Resolved, That Martin Maginnis was duly elected a Delegat-e from the Territory of Montana in the Forty-eighth Congress, and is entitled to his seat as such 

Delegate. 

Mr. RANNEY. In this case the Committee on Elections have unanimously reported in favor of the !5itting Delegate. I know of no reason 

why the resolution should not be adopted. 

The resolution was unanimously adopted. 

1\!r. RANNEY moved to reconsider the vote just taken; and also 

moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion wus agreed ttl. 

ORDER OF BUSINES . 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. I ask unanimous consent to have printed 

in the RECORDa petition infavoroftheeducational bill signed by 5,000 

citizens of the city of New York n.nd elsewhere. 

Several members called for the regular order. 

CO~TESTED ELECTIO~--POOL VS. SKINNER. 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is the consideration of the contested-election case of Charles C. Pool vs. Thomas G. Skinner, first Congressional district of North Carolina. 

Mr. TURNER, of Georgia. It is entirely agreeable to me to take 

that case up at any time when it will suit the convenience of the House. 

But some appeal was made to me on account of the absence of the gentleman interested. in the resultof the case, thatit should be postponed. 

If it is to be gone into, we ought to proceed at once to a decision. But 

if there is any reason why it hould not now be tried, I suggest that 

reason should be given to t.he House at this time. I will inquire of 

the gentleman from North Carolina [Mr. BENNETT] if there is any reason why that ca e shoula not :now be disposed of? 

Mr. BENNETT. The House will recall the fact that a few days ago the case of Pool vs. Skinner was called up and the House by :1. very 

decided majority refused to proceed with the consideration of it. The 

action of the House at that time was taken by Mr. SKINNER and his 

friends as evidence that the temper of the House was against the consideration of the case at this session. Mr. SKINNER went away under 

that impression, and I think it would b~ obviously an injustice to him 

to proceed with the case in his absence in view of all that has transpired. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to passing the case over? 

Ur. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. I object. 

Mr. BENNETT. I move to po tpone the further consideration of the 

report in this case until the second Monday in December, 1 4. 

The motion to postpone was agreed to. 

CONTESTED ELECTION-cRAIG VS. HELLEY. 

The SPEAKER. The next matter in regular order is the contestedelection ease of Craig vs. Shell-ey, fourth Congressional district of .Alar 

bama, reported this morning by the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. 

TuRNER] for his colleague, the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. DAVIS]. 

Mr. TURNER, of Georgia: With regard to this case it is due to the 

gentleman from Uissouri, in whose behalf I presented that report, to 

say there was an understanding arrived at in the committee with the 

gentleman from North Carolina [Mr. BENNETT], who is in charge of 

the views of the minority, that that matter should not be called up for 

one week after the case was decided by the Committee on Elections. 

In view of that understanding, I ask that the case may go over. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Georgia asks that the case 

may be passed over for the present. Is there objection? The Chair 

bears none. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I ask unanimous consent that t.he House 

now resolve itself into Committee of the Whole on the Private Calendar 

for the purpose of considering pension bills. 

Many MEMBERS. Regular order. 

The SPEAKER. The demand for the regular order is equivalent to 

an objection. The regular order would be a motion, if made, to go 

into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union for the purpose 

of considering bills raising revenue or general appropriation bills. 

Mr. HENLEY. I desire to submit a privileged mo~on. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. HENLEY. I move to take from the Sp~p.ker s table Senate 

amendments to House bill 7162--

The SPEAKER. That is not a privileged motion. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. What is the regular order? 

The SPEAKER. Any motion that may be made in ordeF. 

l'tfr. HENLEY. I have t.he floor, I believe. I move to take from 

the Speaker's table the Senate amendments to House bill 7162 to forfeit the unearned lands granted to the Atlantic and Paeific Railroad 

Company to aid in the construction of a railroad and telegraph line 

from the States of Missouri and Arkansas to the Pacific coas4, and to 

restore the same to settlement, and for other purposes. I desire to ask 

the House to non-concur in those amendments, and I will state that 

they are so radical and change so entirely the purport and scope of the 

bill as it originally passed the House that they can not be consistently 

concurred in by the House. I therefore ask the House to non-concur in 

those amendments. 

l'tfr. BELFORD. I desire to know what the amendments are. 

The SPEAKER. They will be read before the question is taken 

upon non-concurrence. Is there objection to considering the Senate 

amendments to the bill indicated by the gentleman from California 

(Mr. HENLEY]? 

M:r. BELFORD. I object, unless we can have an opportunity to 

consider the amendments. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from California (Mr. HENLEY] 

states that he desires to move to non-concur in the amendments, and 

that motion is debatable unless the previous question shall be ordered. 

Mr. HENLEY. On that motion I demand the previous question. 

Mr. STRAIT. I object to the consideration of the bill and the Senate amendments. 

The SPEAKER. Objection being made, the bill with the Senate 

amendments is not before the House. 

l'tfr. TOWNSHEND. I move to go to the business on the Speaker's 

table, and will state that my purpose is to reach the Mexican pension 

bill v;rith Senate amendments. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I rise to a privileged motion. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Jtfr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I move that the House now proceed to 

consider the special order fixed by resolution of the House on the 18th 

of February last, being House bill 3962 granting pensions to certain 

soldiers and sailors of the Mexican war and other wars therein named, 

and for other purpose . 

The PEAKER. Under the rules of the House the question will be 

first taken upon the motion of the gentleman from· Alabama [Mr. 

HEWITT]. 

Mr. DUNN. I it in order, pending these motion. , to move that the 

House nO\Y take a recess? 

The SPEAKER. It is. 
6090 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, 

:Mr. DUNN. Then I make the motion that the House take a recess 

untill o'clock. I am informed that the conference committees will 

have work ready for us by that hour. 

Mr. MILLS. And we can not do anything between now and then. 

The SPEAKER. .A motion· for a recess is a privileged motion un~er 

the rules, and takes precedence of the other motions now pending. 

The question was taken; and on a division there werer-ayes 78, noes 

33. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. No quorum has voted. 

Tellers were ordered; and 1\Ir. D NN and Mr. JoSEPH D. TAYLOR 

were appointed. . The House again divided; and the tellers reported that there wererayes 88, noes 2"2. . 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR {one of the tellers). No quorum has 

voted. 

The SPEAKER. The tellers will continue the count, and gentlemen who have not voted are requested to vote in order to make a quorum. 1\fr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I would like to make a proposition to 

the House, if in order. There are lying upon the Speaker's table a 

number of House pension bills returned from the Senate with amendments. I ask unanimous consent that the Mexican pension bill be 

temporarily laid aside, and that those individual pension bills be taken 

up and the amendments considered. 

The SPEA.KER. The Mexican pension bill bas not yet been reached. 

A motion is pending to go to the Speaker's table, and the gentleman 

from Illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] states that be makes that motion for 

the purpose of reaching that bill. 

1\ir. TOWNSHEND. I am willing to adopt the proposition of the 

gentleman from Iowa [Mr. HENDERSON]. 

1\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. I have no objection to that. 

Many MEMBERS. Regular order. 

The SPEAKER. The demand for the regular orde1· is equivalent to an objection. The Chair, however, will state the request and then gentlemen can object in a formal way if they desire to do so. The gentleman from Iowa [~Ir. HE~DJ,i:RS'ON] asks unanimous consent that all the 

pending motions be withdrawn, and that the House proceed to the con-

. sideration of House pension bills with Senate amendments now upon 

the Speaker's table. 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. The motion is not to withdraw the Mexican 

pension bill. 

The SPEAKER The Mexican pension bill is not up. 

Mr. DUNN (one of the tellers). I object. 

The SPEAKER. Objection is made. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Then I call for the yeas and nays at once, as I think that would be an economy of time. 

The SPEAKER. The tellers will make their report. 

The tellers reported that there wffi'e ayes 112, noes 34. 

Mr. HtNDEHSON, of Iowa. I call for t.he yeas and na.ys . . 

The question was taken upon ordering the yeas and nays; and there 

werer-ayes 21, noes 79. 

The SPEAKER. More than one-fifth voting in the affirmative, the 

yeas and nays are ordered. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama.. I call for tellers on ordering the yeas 

and nays. 

Tellers were ordered, there being 35 in the affirmative (more than 

one-fifth of a quorum); and Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR and Mr. DUNN 

were appointed. 

Mr. PERKINS. Before the vote is taken on ordering the yeas and 

nays I desire to make a p:nliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER The gentleman will state it. 

1\Ir. PERKINS. If the motion for a recess should be voted down, 

will a motion to go to the Speaker's table for the purpose of considering 

House pension bills with Senate a,mendments be in order? 

The SPEAKER. It would not, except by unanimous consent. 

The House again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 7, noes 74. 

So the yea and nays were not ordered. 

The SPEAKER. On the motion that the House take a recess there were aye 7 , noes 33. 

Mr. KEIFER. I make the point there is no quorum voting. 

Mr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. Will it be in order to go to the business 

onthe Speaker's table? 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. That is the motion I have made. 

1\fr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. But the gentleman from Illinois made 

it coupled with the motion to take up the Mexican pension bill. 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. No; I did not. 

The SPEAKER. It would not be in order to move to go to the 

business on the Speaker's table for the purpose of taking up any particular measure, unless by unanimous consent; and the motj.on of the 

gentleman from Illinois was a generaJ one, to go to the business upon 

the Speaker's table. 

Mr. HENDERSON, ofiowa. Then let the motion be to go to the busi- ness on the Speaker's table for the purpose of taking up House bills' 

returned wit_h Senate amendments, and let us dispose of them. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. That is exactly what I am willingto do when 

we go to the Speaker's table. 

Mr. GUENTHER. In that case it will be well to withdraw the 

point that no quorum bas voted. 

Mr. SPRINGER. If the point of no quorum be withdrawn, then, 

the >ote being 7 to 33, the House takes a recess. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I hope the point of no quorum will be withdrawn so that we may go to the business upon the Speaker's table, 

and then we can take up bills of the Honse returned with Senate 

amendments. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from illinois moved to proceed to 

the consideration of business on the Speaker's table, and pending 

that the gentleman from Alabama moved to proceed to the consideration of the special order h eretofore made by the House; which is a 

motion having precedence o•er the motion of the gentleman from Illinois. If the motion to take a recess be now withdrawn the que tion 

first recurs on the motion of the gentleman from Alabama. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. If the motion be agreed to, and it be 

also agreed that we shall pa-ss over the 1tfexican pension bill, I will 

withdraw my motion. 

The SPEAKER. Then the only question rerrutining is the motion 

of the gentleman from Arkansas to take a recess; which is still pending. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. If the gentleman from Arkansas will withdraw his motion we can adjust this matter, I think. 

1\Ir. DUNN. I will withdraw·it, as that seems to be the wish of the 

House. 

The SPEAKER. The pending motions are all withdrawn except 

the motion to proceed to the consideration of business on the Speaker's table. 

The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I am willing now, 1\Ir. Speaker, tba£ the Mexican pension bill may temporarily be laid aside until the bills referted 

to by the gentleman from Iowa, House bills returned with Senate amendments, shall be taken up and considered. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. No, no; the question was that the Mexican pension bill should be passed over altogether, and it was only on 

that condition I consented to go to the Speaker's table. 

1\ir. TOWNSHEND. That is what I am trying to do; and for that 

purpose I move that the Mexican pension bill be laid aside temporarily 

until those House bills with Senate amendments can be disposed of. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I agreed to go to the business upon the 

Speaker's table on condition that the 1\Iexican pension bill should be 

pa ed over. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. The House having gone to the business on the 

Speaker's table, nd the first business on the Speaker's table being the 

Mexican pension bill, I move that it be temporarily laid aside. 

The SPEAKER. But that is exactly what the gentleman from Alabama objects to. His understanding was that it should be laid aside; 

not temporarily, but laid aside. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Until these bills have been disposed of. 

1\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. No; that was not the understanding. 

Mr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 

Will it be in order to ask unanimous consent to take up and pass a 

House bill with Senate amendment? 

The S~EAKER. Only by unanimous consent. 

1\Ir. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I ask unanimous consent. It is House 

bill 1985, where there was a clerical error, and the amendment from 

the Senate merely corrects that clerical error. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? 

Mr. SPRINGER. Let us take up all House bills granting pensions 

to private individuals with Senate amendments, without saying anything else. 

Mr. CALKINS. How many bills are on the Speaker's table with 

Senate amendments? 

The SPEAKER. There were eight. 

1\Ir. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I did not understand there was any 

objection to my bill. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair understands now there are only three 

of them, some having been disposed of. 

Mr. CALKINS. What we want to· do, Mr. Speaker, is to go to the 

Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar to consider and 

pass Senate bills which have come over. 

l\1r. TOWNSHE~D. That can be done a.ft.erward. 

Mr. DUNN. I think we had better have the regular order. 

The SPEAKER. The House has agreed to go to the consideration 

of the business on the Speaker's table. 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. Then I demand the regular order. 

The SPEAKER. The regular order of business is the Mexican pension bill. 

l\1r. SPRINGER. I move that be laid aside temporarily. 

1\.{.r. HEWITT, of Alabama. I am not going to be trapped by any snap judgment of that kind. · I demand that the understanding be car- ried out. 

Mr. TOWNSHEl\TD. What is the gentleman's understanding? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. That we should go to the Speaker's 

table for the pu ose of taking up private pension b ills pa ed by the 

House and retu:Ted with amendments by the Senate aud now upon 

the Speaker s ta >: e. 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6091 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Does anybody object to that? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alaba~a. To that I have no objection. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. There is no objection whatever to taking up 

the bills mentioned by the gentleman from Alabama, but I wish it to 

be distinctly understood that when they are <lisposed of I shall renew 

my motion to take up the Mexican pension bil1. That is all I ever have 

agreed to. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Thatwasnottheunderstanding. That 

bill was to be pas ed over. Mr. TOWNSHEND. Until the others were dispo ed of, only. 

Mr. PERKINS. Let us go on, then, with the business. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I will not agree to that arrangement. 

That was not the understanding at all. 

Mr. DUNN. I renew my motion that the House take a recess until 

1 o'clock. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 55, noes 57. 

Mr. BURNES. Mr. Speaker, I desire to make one appeal to the .common sense..of this House. I move that this Mexican pension bill 

and amendments be postponed and made the special order for the second 

Tuesday in December next. 

The SPEAKER. That is not in order pending the motion for the 

recess. Mr. SPRINGER. That has been voted down. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair had not announced the result of the 

vote, under the impression that the point of order was made in the Hall 

that no quorum bad voted. If the Chair was mistaken in that respect 

the motion for a recess bas not been agreed to. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I demand the regular order, which is the motion I have made. 

l\Ir. SPRINGER. The regular order is the motion of the gentleman 

from l\fissourL 

The SPEAKER. It is. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I submitted a motion that the House proceed 

to business on the Speaker's table, which was agreed to. Pending 

that the gentleman from Missouri comes in and submits his motion to 

postpone the consideration of the pension bill now upon the table to a fixed time. Is that in' order? 

The SPEAKER. The motion of the gentleman from illinois was agreed to. The l\Iexican pension bill is" now before the House for con- sideration. Pending the consideration of that bill the gentleman from 

Missouri moves its postponement, which motion is in order. Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I rise to a privileged motion. I move to proceed with the special order of February 18, which makes the Mexi- -can pension bill a special order on that day and from day to day thereafter until dispo ed of. 

l\Ir. TOWNSHEND. That is notin order, for we have the Mexican 

pension bill now under consideration. 

The SPEAKER. · The gentleman from Alabama calls up the special 

order. The House has determined to proceed with the consideration 

of business on the Speaker's table. The Mexican pension bill is the 

first business on the Speaker's table. It has not been taken up and no motion made with reference to it except the motion of the gentleman 

from Uissouri to postpone its consideration to a time fixed. 

Mr. CALKINS. That motion is in order? 

The SPEAKER. It is. 

Mr. . PRINGER. Then upon that I demand the previous question. 

l\Ir. CALKINS. I ask if it is not the intention of the gentleman 

to wake this a continuing order? 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. It ought to be. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I insist that my motion takes preced- ence of that. I call up the special order and ask if that has not pri- ority? 

The SPEAKER. Wben this bill is aetually under consideration, 

and a motion is pending in regard to it, the Chair thinks that no other 

motion to call up a new subject is in order until this is disposed of in some manner. If the gentleman from Alabama desires to make his 

motion to call up the special order, he must make it when some other 

matter is not actually pending before the House. 

l'llr. SPRINGER. I demand the previous question on the motion of 

the gentleman from Missouri. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. To postpone the consideration to the 

second Tuesday in December? 

Mr. SPRINGER. That is the motion. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Missouri moves that the further consideration of this bill and the Senate amendments be postponed 

until the second Tuesday in December next. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Does the gentleman from Missouri propose a continuing order? 

?tlr. BURNES. I have no objection-- Mr. TOWNSHEND. The gentleman from Missouri, as I understand, amends his motion further that it shall be considered from day 

to day until disposed of. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair stated the motion of the gentleman 

from Missouri as he himself put it. 

' 

The question is on agreeing to the demand for the previous question. 

The previous question was ordered. 

The SPEAKER. The question recurs on the motion of the gentle- man from l\fissouri that the further consideration of this bill and the 

Senate amendments thereto be postponed until the second Tuesday in 

December next. Mr. TOWNSHEND. The consideration to continue from day to day. 

Mr. WASHBURN, Mr. ROBINSON of Ohio, and others demanded 

the yeas and nays. 

l\Ir. WHITE, o£ Kentucky. Is it in order to move an amendment 

to the motion? 

The SPEAKER. It is not. The previous question is pending. l\fr. WILLIS. I tise to a parliamentary inquiry I desire to know 

if this vote should be taken by yeas and nays, and the fact disclosed 

that no quorum is present, whether any other business can be taken up 

at present? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. There is a quorum. 

l\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. There is clearly a quorum present un-· less they mean to filibuster against this bill on the other side. 

The SPEAKER. The question is upon ordering the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered. 

E...'\fROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

l\Ir. PETERS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, re~rted that 

the committee had examined and fourid truly enrolled bills of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: A bill (H. R. 103) granting a pension to Theresa Crosby Watson; 

A bill (H. R. 562) granting a pension to H. E. Van Trees; and 

A bill (H. R. 570) granting a pension to M. H. Clements. 

MEXICAN WAR PENSION BILL. 

The question was taken on the motion of Mr. BUR~ to postpone 

until the second Tuesday in December the further consideration of the 

Mexican war pension bill; and there were-yeas 55, nays 135, not voting 134; as follows: 

Adams,J.J. 

Alexander, 

Barksdale, 

Bennett, 

Blanchard, 

Blount, 

Breckinridge, 

Broadhead, 

Buchanan, 

Burnes, 

Caldwell, 

Cassidy, 

Clay, Cosgrove, 

Atkinson, 

Bagley, 

Bayne, 

Boutelle. 

Brewer, F. B. Browne, T. M. 

Brown,W. W. Budd. 

Calkins, 

Campbell, J. E. Campbell, J. M. Cannon, 

Carleton, 

Chalmers, Connolly, 

Cox,W.R. 

Culbertson, W. W . Cullen, 

Cutcheon, 

Davis,G.R. Davis,R.T. 

Deuster, 

Dingley, 

Dowd, 

Dunham, 

Eldredge, 

Ellwood, 

English, Evans, l . N. Everhart, F errell, Follett, Foran, 

Geddes, 

Adams, G. E. Aiken, 

Anderson, 

Arnot, Ballentine, 

Barbour, Barr, 

Beach, 

Belford, 

Belmont, 

Bingham, 

Bisbee , Blackburn, Bland, Bowen, Boyle, 

YEAS-55. 

Crisp, Culberson, D. B. Dargan; Dibble, 

Dibrell, 

Dunn, 

Eaton, 

Findlay, 

·Garrison, 

Gibson, Graves, 

Halsell, 

Hancock, 

Hemplllll, 

Hex:bert, 

Hewitt,G.W. 

Hunt, 

Jones,J.H. Lanham, 

Lyman, Miller,J.F. MilL", 

Mitchell, Murphy, Oates, 

Peel, Pierce, 

Potter, 

NAYB-135. 

George, Libbey, Glascock, Lore, Green Lovering, Greenleaf, Lowry, Guenther, McCoid, Hardy, Maybury, 

Hart, 1\Iiller,S.H. Hatch, H. H. l\1illiken, 

Hatch, W. H. 1\IoiTill, 

Henderson, D. B. Murray, 

Hepburn, Neece, Hiscock, O'Hara, Hitt, O'Neill,J.J. 

Hoblitzell, Parker, Holman, Payne, 

Holmes, P ayson, Holt-on, Perkins, Horr, Peter , Houseman, Phelps, 

Howey, Poland, James, Pusey, Jeffords, Ranney , John on, Riggs, 

Jones, B. W. Robertson, Ka on, Robinson, J. S. Kean, Robinson, W. E . Keifer, Rockwell, Kellogg, Rowell, 

Ketcham, Seney, Kle iner, Singleton, Lacey , Skinner, C. R. Laird, Smith, Lawrence, Spooner, 

Le Fevre, Springer, 

NOT VOTING-134. 

Brainerd, 

Breitung, 

Brewer, J. H. Brumm, 

Buckner, 

Burle igh, Cabell 

Campbell, Felix Ca ndler, Chace, Clardy, Clements, 

Cobb, 

Collins, Con'l'erse, Cook. 

Covington, 

Cox,S.S. 

Curtin, Davidson, 

Davis,L.H. 

Dockery, 

Dorsheimer, 

Duncan, 

Elliott, 

Ellis, 

Ermentrout, Evins,J.H. Fiedler, Finerty, Forney, 

Funston, 

Pryor, 

Reese, 

Rogers, J. H. Seymour, 

Stewart, Charles Taylor, J.l\1. Tillman 

Tucker, ' Turner, H . G. Turner, 0 car Van Eaton, Wellborn, Williams. 

Stephenson, 

Stewart, J. W . Stone, Strait, 

Struble, Sumner, C. A. Sumner, D. H. Taylor, J.D. Thomas, 

Townshend, Valentine, 

Van Alstyne, Vancef Wadsworth, 

Wakefield, 

Wallace, 

Warner, Richard Washburn, Weaver, 

Welle r, White, J.D. White , Milo Whiting, 

Wilkins, 

Wilson, James Wilson, W . L. Winans, E. B. Winans, John Wolford, Wood, 

Woodward, Yaple, York. 

Fya.n, 

Goff, Hammond, Hanba{)k, Hardeman, Harmer, Haynes, 

Henderson, T . J. Henley, Hewitt, A. S. Hill, 

Hooper, Hopkins, 

Houk, 

Hurd, Hutchins, 
6092 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Jones,J.K. Moulton, 

Jones,J. T. Muldrow, 

Jordan, Muller, 

Kelley, Mutchler, 

King, Nelson, 

Lamb, Nicholls, 

Lew:i , Nutting, 

:bong, Ocbiltree, 

McAdoo, O'Ferrall, 

McComas, O'Neill, Charles 

McCormick, Paige, 

McMillin, Patton, 

Matson, Pettibone, 

Millard, Post, 

.!\:Ioney, Price, 

Morgan, Randall, 

Morrison, l4tnkin, 

Morse, Ray, G. W. 

So the motion was not agreed to. 

After the second roll-call, 

• 

Ray, Ossian 

~· Rice, 

Rogers, W. F . . Rosecrans, 

RUBSell, 

Ryan, 

Scales, 

Shaw, 

Shelley, 

Skinner, T. G. Slocum, 

Smalls, 

Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Steele, 

Stevens, 

· Stockslager, 

Storm, 

Talbott, 

Taylor, E. B. Thompson, • Throckmorton, 

Tully, 

Wait, 

Ward, 

Warner,A.J. 

Wemple, 

Willis, 

Wise, G. D. Wise,J.S. 

Worthington, 

Yonng. 

Mr. PERKINS asked unanimous consent that the reading· of the 

names of members voting be dispensed with. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Has a quorum voted? 

The SPEAKER. A quorum has voted. 

l\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. I object to dispensing with the reading of the names. 

The names of members voting were then read. 

The following members were . announced as paired on all political 

questions until further notice: 

Mr. MOULTON with Mr. EZRA B. TAYLOR. 

Mr. BLACKBURN with Mr. RUSSELL. 

Mr. DAVIDSON with Mr. HAYNES. 

Mr. BucKNER with Mr. KELLOGG. 

Mr. ROGERS, of New York, with Mr. HOOPER. 

· 1\Ir. DUNCAN with Mr. SMITH. 

Mr. DOCKERY with Mr. BREWER, of New Jersey. 

Mr. CLARDY with Mr. JoHNS. WISE. 

Mr. NICHOLLS with Mr. CHACE. 

Mr. JO:NES, of Alabama, with Mr. BURLEIGH. 

Mr. RoBERTSON with Mr. BARR. 

~fr. MORRISON with Mr. KELLEY. 

. THROCKl\fORTON with Mr. BISBEE. 

Mr. WORTHINGTON with Mr. BOWEN. 

Mr. CAMPBELL, of New York, with Mr. BREITUNG. 

1\Ir. REAGA...~ with Mr. PETTIBONE. 

Mr. BLAND with Mr. Homr. 

Mr. FIEDLER with Mr. HEPBURN. 

Mr. SNYDER with Mr. HANBACK. 

Mr. SHAW with Mr. ANDERSON. 

:?ifr. CoLLINS with Mr. DUNHAM. 

Mr. CooK with Mr. MULLER. 

Mr. MATSON with Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. 

Mr. COBB with Mr. KETCHAM. 

:Air. HAMMOND with Mr. REED. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio, with Mr. BINGHAM. 

~fr. HARDEMAN with Mr. McCoRMICK. 

Mr. DoRSHEIMER with ~fr. MILLARD. 

~fr. HILL with Mr. HOLMES. 

Mr. TuLLY with Mr. BELFORD. 

Mr. HEWITT, of New York, with Mr. RICE. 

Mr. PosT,. of Pennsylvania, with Mr. LoNG. 

Mr. ERMENTROUT with Mr. ADAMS, of Illinois. 

Mr. BARBOUR with Mr. WAlT. 

Mr. BEACH with Mr. HARMER. 

Mr. HOPKINS with ~fr. BRAINERD. 

Mr. BOYLE with Mr. LAWRENCE. 

~fr. DAVIS, of Missouri, with Mr. JOHNSON. 

Mr. AIKEN with Mr. BRUMM. 

Mr: CoNVERSE with Mr. WILSON, of Iowa. 

Mr. LEWIS with Mr. LAIRD. 

Mr. WARD with Mr. HENDERSON, of illinois. 

Mr. PATTON with Mr. McCOMAS. 

Mr. BALLENTINE with ~fr. GoFF. 

The following pairs were also announced: 

Ml.·. SKINNER, of North Carolina, with Mr. NUTTING, until July 8. 

Mr. Down with Mr. RAY, of New York, until July 8. 

Mr. CABELL with Mr. RAY, of New Hampshire, on aJl questions except Mexican pension bill. 

:Mr. CABELL with Mr. CURTIN, on the Mexican bill. 

lli. JORDAN with Mr. JEFFORDS, for to-day. 

~Ir. LAMB with Mr. McMILLIN, on the Mexican pension bill as 

amended by the Senate. Mr. LAMB would vote against and Mr. McMILLIN in favor ofpostponement. 

M.r. JO}.'"ES, of Arkansas, with Mr. HISCOCK, for this day. 

Mr. THOMPSON with Mr. NELSON, on this vote. 

Mr. PAIGE with ~fr. RYAN, for this day. 

Mr. MONEY with Mr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania, on this vote. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I desire to state that my colleague, 

Mr. FoRNEY, is absent on a conference committee. 

The result of the vote was then announced as above stated. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I ask unanimous consent of the Honse--

Mr. RE.ED. Let us have the regular order. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I rise to a personal explanation. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

~fr. BROWNE, of Indiana. The Clerk announced a pair between 

my colleague, Mr. MATSON, and my elf. Such a pair was made, but 

it was expressly stipulated between my colleague and myself that the 

pair was in no case to extend to any vote in connection with the ~{exican war pension bill, as my colleague and myself agree upon all questions in connection with that bill. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I now call up the special order made 

in February last. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I call for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER. That is the regular order, unless the question of 

consideration is raised against it. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. It is not debatable? 

The SPEAKER. It is not. 

Many !!EMBERS. Regular order ! 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will endeavor to enforce the regular order. The gentleman from Alabama [Mr. HEWITT] calls up for consideration at this time the special order made in February last, being 

the bill granting pensions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Mexican 

war, &c. The Chair does not understand whether the gentleman from 

·illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] raises the question of consideration against 

it or not. • 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I do, in the interest of the ~{exican pension 

bill now on the Speaker's table with Senate amendments. 

ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

'1r. YAPLE, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the committee had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: 

.A bill (S. 838) to consolidate the Bureau of Military Justice and the 

corps of judge-advocates of the Army, and for other purposes; and 

A bill (H. R. 7012) making appropriations for the construction, repair, and preservation of certain public works on rivers and harbors, 

and for other purposes. 

~fr. PERKINS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the committee had examined and found truly enrolled a bill and joint 

resolutions of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: 

A bill (H. R. 5709) to amend article 72 of the Rules and Articles of 

War; 

A joint resolution (H. Res. 260) authorizing the printing and binding 

of additional copies of the. reports of the National Board of Health; 

and 

A joint resolution (H. Res. 276) providing for the printing of 50,000 

copies of the :first annual report of the Bureau of Animal Industry. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

The SPEAKER. The question is, Will the House now proceed to 

the consideration of the special order ? 

Mr. SPRINGER. Pending that I ask unanimous consent--

Mr. REED. Why can we not proceed with the regular order? 

The SPEAKER. The House will proceed with the regular order, 

and pending the demand for the regular order it is not in order to ask 

unanimous consent for any other purpose. 

The question was taken; and upon a division there were-ayes 33, 

noes 73. 

Mr. HEWITT, of .Alabama. No quorum has voted. 

The SPEAKER. The point is made that no quorum has voted. 

Mr. WASHBURN: I call for the yeas and nays. . 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. That is right; let us have the yeas and nays. 

The question was taken on ordering the yeas and nays; and there 

were 51 in the affirmative. 

So (the affirmative being more than one-fifth of the last vote) the 

yeas and nays were ordered. 

The question was taken; and there were-yeas 46, nays 109, not 

voting 169; as follows: 

Alexander, 

Barksdale, 

Blanchard, 

Buchanan, 

Caldwell, 

Clay, 

Cox,S.S. 

Cox, W.R. Culberson, D. B. Dargan, 

Dibble, 

Dowd, 

Adams, G. E. Atkinson, 

Bagley, 

Bayne, 

Boutelle. 

Brewer, F. B. Browne, T. M. Brown,W.W. 

Brumm, 

Budd, 

YEAs-46. 

Eaton, 

Garrison, 

Gibson, 

Green, 

Halsell. 

HatchhW.H. 

Hemp ill, 

Hunt, 

Jones,J.H. 

Lanham, 

Lore, 

Lyman, 

McMillin, 

Miller,J.F. 

Mills, 

Murphy, 

Pierce, 

Peel, 

Pryor, 

Reed, 

Robinson, W. E. Rogers, J. H. 

Seney, 

Stewart, Charles 

NAY8-10~l. 

Burnes, 

Cf',mpbell, J. E. C.llllpbell,J.M. 

Cannon, 

Carleton, 

Cutcheon, 

Davis,G.R. 

Da.vis,R.T. 

Dingley, 

Eldredge, 

Ellwood, 

English, 

Evans,I.N. 

Everhart, 

Ferrell, 

Follett, 

Foran, 

Funston, 

Geddes, 

Greenleaf, 

Taylor, J. M. Tillman 

Turner, H. G. Turner, Oscar 

Vance, 

Warner, Richard Wilsol!! W. L. Wise,ti.D. 

'Volford, 

York. 

Guenther, 

Hardy, 

Hart, 

Hatch,H.H. 

Henderson, D. B. Hepburn, 

Hiscock, 

Hitt 

Hobhtzell, 

Holman, 
-

1884. CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-~OUSE. 6093 

Holmes, 

Hooper, 

Horr, 

Howey, 

James, 

Johnson, 

Jones,B.W. 

Jordan, Kasson, 

Kean, 

K ellogg, 

Kleiner, 

Lacey, 

Laird, 

Lawrence, 

LeFevre, 

Libbey, 

Lovering, 

Lowry, 

McComas 

Miller, S. H. 

Milliken, 

Mitchell, 

Morrill, 

Murray, 

Neece, 

Nelson, Ochiltree, 

O'Hara, 

O'Neill, J. J. 

Parker, 

Payne, 

Perkins, Peters, 

Poland, 

Pusey, 

Rankin, 

Riggs, 

Robinson, J. S. 

Rockwell, 

Rowell, 

Skinner, C. R. 

Smalls, 

Smith. 

Spooner, 

Stephenson, 

Stewart,J. W. 

Stone, Strait, 

Sumner, C. A. 

Taylor, J.D. 

Thomas, Townshend, 

Valentine, 

NOT VOTING-169. 

.Adams, J. J. Cullen, _ Jones, J. K. 

Aiken, Curtin, Jones, J. T. 

Anderson, Davidson, Keifer, Arnot, Da.vis,L.H. Kelley, 

Ballentine, Deuster, Ketcham, 

Barbour, Dibrell, King, 

Barrh Dockery, Lamb, Beac , Dorsheimer, Lewis, 

Belford, Duncan, LoMcnAgloo, Belmont, Dunham, a Bennett, Dunn, McCoid, 

Bingham, Elliott, McCormick, 

Bisbee, Ellis, l\latson, 

Blackburn, Ermentrout, Maybury, 

Bland, Evins,J.H. · ~Iillard, 

Blount, Fiedler, Money, 

Bowen, Findlay, Morgan, Boyle, Finerty, Morrison, 

Brainerd, Forney, 1\'Iorse, 

Breckinridge, Fyan, Moult-on, 

Breitung, George, Muldrow, 

Brewer,J.H. Glascock, Muller, 

Broadhead, Goff, Mutchler, 

Buckner, Graves, Nicholls, 

Burleigh, Hammond, Nutting, 

Cabell, Hanback, Oat-es, 

Calkins, Hancock, O'Ferrall, 

Campbell, Felix Hardeman, O'Neill, Charles 

Candfer, Harmer, . Paige, Cassidy, Haynes, Patton, 

Chace, Henderson, T.J. Payson, Chalmers Henley, Pettibone, 

Clardy, Herbert, Phelps, 

Clements, Hewitt, A. S. Post, 

Cobb, Hewitt, G. W. Potter, 

Collins. Hill Price, 

Connolly, Holton, Randall, 

Converse, Hopkins, Ranney, Cook, Honk, Ray, G. W. 

CO!:l(frove, Houseman, Ray, Ossian 

Covmgton, Hurd, Rea.gan, Crisp, Hut-chins, Reese, 

Culbertson, W. W. Jeffords, Rice, 

The following additional pair was announced: 

Van Alstyne, 

W ak:efield, 

Wallace, 

Washburn, 

Weaver, 

Weller, White, J.D. 

White, Milo 

Whiting, 

Wilkins, Willis, 

Wilson, James Winans, E. B. 

Winans, John 

Yaple. 

Robertson, 

Rogers, W. F. 

Rosecrans, 

Russell, Ryan, Scales, Seymour, Shaw, 

Shelley, 

Singleton, 

Skinner, T. G. 

Slocum, 

• Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Springer, 

Steele, 

Stevens, 

Stockslager, 

Storm, 

Struble, 

Sumner, D. H. 

Talbott, 

Taylor, E. B. 

Thompson, 

Throckmorton, 

Tucker, 

Tully, 

VanEaton, 

Wadsworth, 

Wait, 

Ward, 

Warner,A.J. 

Wellborn, Wemple, 

Williams, 

Wise,J.S. 

Wood, 

Woodward, 

Worthington, 

Young. 

Mr. MONEY with l\lr. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania, on this vote. 

Mr. ADAMS of Illinois. .On the occasion of former roll-calls I have 

been announced as paired. That pair was on political questions, and 

this one was not included; I have therefore voted. 

The SPEAKER. On this question the yeas are 46, the nays are 108. 

No quorum has voted, and the motion is not agreed to. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Does the Mexican war pension bill come up now in regular order ? 

The SPEAKER. It would if there were a quorum present, but the 

Journal now shows that there is no quorum present. 

. Mr. HOLMAN. Then I move a call of the House. 

The question was taken on the motion of Mr. HOLMAN; and upon a division there were-ayes 33, noes 20. 

Before the result of the vote was announced, 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama, called for the yeas and nays. 

The question was taken upon ordering the yeas and nays; and there were 17 in the affirmative. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I would inquire of the gentlemanfrom 

Indiana [Mr. HOLl\IAN] if any conference report is ready? 

:M:r. HOLl\IAN. I think not at this moment. 

The SPEAKER. Upon ordering the yeas and nays there were 17 in 

the affirmative, which is not one-fifth of the last recorded vote. 

1\lr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I ask that the other side be counted. 

The negative was counted, there being 62. 

The SPEAKER. Upon ordering the yeas andnays the ayes are 17, 

the noes are 62; more than one-fifth have voted in the affirmative. 

1\I.r. BUDD. I call for tellers on ordering the yeas and nays. 

Tellers were not ordered. 

So the yeas and nays were ordered. 

The question was taken; and there were-yeas 105, nay 47, not voting 

172; as follows: 

Adams, G. E. 

Alexander, 

Atkinson, 

Boutelle, 

Browne, T. M. 

Brown,W.W. 

Brumm, 

YEAS-105. 

Budd, Davis, R. T. 

Cannon, Dingley, Cox, S. S. Dowd, 

Culbertson, W. W. English, Cullen, Evans, I. N. 

Cutcheon, Finerty, Drnis, G. R. Follett, 

Funston, Geddes, 

Gibson, Glascock, 

Goff, 

Greenleaf, 

Guenther, 

Halsell, 

Hancock, 

Hardy, Hart., Hatch,W. H. 

Henderson, D. B. 

Henley, 

Hepburn, 

Hiscock, Hitt 

Hobiitzell, 

.Holman, 

Houseman, 

Jeffords, Johnson, 

Jones,B.W. 

Jordan, Kean, Keifer, 

Kleiner, 

Adams,J. J. 

Bagley, 

Bennett, 

Breckinridge, Broadhead, 

Caldwell, 

Calkins, 

Campbell, J. M. 

Carleton, 

Clay, 

Cosgrove, 

Cox,W.R. 

Lacey, 

Lawrence, 

LeFevre, 

Libbey, 

Lowry, 

Lyman, 

McComas, 

Mcl\Iillin, 

Miller, S. H. 

1\lilliken, 

Morrill, 

Neece, Ochiltree, 

O'Hara, 

O'Neill, J. J. 

Parker, Payne, 

Payson, Peel, 

Perkins, 

Dargan, Dibrell, Eaton, 

Ellwood, 

Everhart, 

Hatch1H. H. 

Hempnill, 

Hewitt,G. W. 

Holmes, 

Horr, 

Jones,J. H. 

Kasson, 

Peters, 

Poland, Pusey, 

Rankin, Ranney, 

Riggs, 

Rockwell, 

Rowell, 

Seney, Seymour, 

Skinner, C. R. 

Smalls, 

Smith, 

Spooner, 

Springer, 

Stephenson, 

Stewart, Charles 

Stewart, J. W. 

Struble, 

Taylor, J. D. 

NAYS-47. 

Laird, Lanham, McCoid, Maybury, 

Miller, J. F. Mills, 

Mitchell, 

Muldrow, 

Pierce, 

Pryor, 

Robinson, W. E. 

Scales, 

NOT VOTING-172. 

Thomas, 

Townshend;. 

Turner, H. ti. 

Valentine, Wait, Wallace, Washburn, 

Weaver, White, J.D. 

White, Milo, 

Wilson,W.L. 

Winans, E. B. 

Winans, John 

Wolford, 

Woodward, Yaple, York. 

Strait, 

Taylor, ;J. M. 

Tillman, 

Turner, Oscar 

Van Alstyne, 

Vance, 

Van Eaton, 

Wakefield, 

Warner, Richard Willis 

Wood: 

Aiken, Culberson, D. B. James, Reese, 

Anderson, Curtin, Jones, J. K. Riee 

Arnot, Davidson, Jones, J. T. Ro~rtson, Ballentine, Davis, L. H. Kelley, Robinson, J. S. 

Barbour, Deuster, Kellogg, Rogers, J. H. 

Barksdale, Dibble, Ketcham, Rogers, W. F. 

Barr, Dockery, King, Rosecrans, 

Bayne, Dorsheimer, Lamb, Russell, 

Beach, Duncan, Lewis, Ryan, Belford, Dunham, Long, Sha~, 

Belmont, Dunn, Lore, Shelley, 

Bingham, Eldredge, Lovering, Singleton, Bisbee, Elliott; McAdoo, Skinner, T. G. 

Blackburn, Ellis, McCormick, Slocum, 

Blanchard, Ermentrout, Matson, Snyder, Bland, Evins, J. H. Millard, Spriggs, 

Blount, Ferrell, Money, Steele, 

Bowen, Fiedler, Morgan, Stevens, 

Boyle, Findlay, Morrison, Stockslager, 

Brainerd, Foran, Morse, · Stone, 

Breitung Forney, 1\'Ioulton, Storm, 

Brewer, F. B. Fyan, Muller, Sumner, C. A. 

Brewer,J.H. Garrison, Murphy, Sumner, D. H. 

Buchanan, George, Murray, Talbott, 

Buckner, Graves, Mutchler, Taylor, E. B. 

Burleigh, Green, Nelson, Thompson, 

Burnes, Hammond, Nicholls, Throckmorton, 

Cabell, Hanback, Nutting, Tucker, 

Campbell, Felix Hardeman, Oates, Tully, 

Campbell, J. E. Harmer, O'Ferra.ll, Wadsworth, 

Candler, Haynes, O'Neill, Charles Ward, 

Cassidy, · Henderson, T. ;J. Paige, Warner, A. J. 

Chace, Herbert, Patton, Wellborn, 

Chalmers, Hewitt, A. S. Pettibone, Weller, 

Clardy, Hill, Phelps, Wemple, · Clements, Holton, Post, Whiting, Cobb, Hooper, Potter, Wilkins, 

Collins, Hopkins, Price, William~ 

Connolly, Houk, Randall, Wilson, James Converse, Howey, Ray, G. W. Wise, G. D. 

Cook, Hunt, Ray, Ossian Wise~ ~.S. 

Covington, Hurd, Reagan, Wortnington, Crisp, Hutchins, Reed, Young . 

So the motion for a call of the House was agreed to. 

Mr. GIBSON. I ask unanimous consent that thereadingofthenames 

be dispensed with. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama, rose. Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I hope the gentleman from Alabama will 

not object to dispensing with the reading of the names. When the 

result is announced, I will ask unanimous consent for a recess till half 

past 2 o'clock, so that we may see if we can make some arrangement 

about this matter. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair hears no objection; and the reading of 

the names is dispensed with. 

The result of the vote was announced as above stated. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I now ask unanimous consent that the 

House take a recess until half past 2 o'clock. I hope that in the mean time we may reach some agreement by which we can get out of the 

present difficulty. · 

1\Ir. MILLS. I suggest to the gentleman from Indiana that we might 

utilize this day in attending to business at the Departments. I understand the conference committees will not be ready toreporttill6o'clock 

this evening. 

1\Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. But we may get out of this dilemma 

in a very short time after half past 2, and then, if necessary, we can take a recess till the conference committees may be ready to report. 

Mr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I ask unanimous consent to ta$e up 

from the Speaker's table--

'l'he SPEAKER The House can transact no business until the call 
·-

6094 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

which has been ordered has been dispensed with and a quorum exhibited. The gentleman from Indiana has asked unanimous consent 

to dispense with further proceedings under the call and take a recess 

till half past 2 o'clock. 

Mr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. Let the gentleman ask unanimous 

consent simply to dispense with the call. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I will name 3 o'clock for the recess if 

it will suit the gentleman better. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Iowa [Mr. HENDERSON] objects to the request for a recess, but does not object to dispensing with 

further proceedings under the call. 

Mr. HEWITT, of .Alabama. - I understand the gentleman from Iowa 

wants to reach a bill on the Speaker's table which has been returned 

from the Senate with a merely verbal amendment. 

Mr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. That is my purpose. The amendment is merely clerical. I have been trying for ten days to have the 

bill taken up and the amendment concurred in. 

l\Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. I am willir.tg that should be done. 

A bill (H. R. 6750) to amend paragraph 7 of section 2527 of the Revised Statutes· and 

Joint resolution (H. Res. 17) authorizing the appointment and retirement of Samuel Kramer as a chaplain in the Navy of the United 

States. 

LEAVE OF AB ENCE. 

By una,nimous consent, leave of absence was granted in the following 

cases: To Mr. PRYOR, indefinitely. 

To Mr. FIEDLER, for ten days, on.account of sickness in his family. 

To :Mr. ELLWOOD, for ten days. 

To Mr. DUNCAN, for one week. 

EDUCATIONAL BILL. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. I ask by unanimous consent to put in the 

RECORD a petition, without names, signed by 5,000persons, praying for 

the passage of the educational bill, with an explanation as to the procurement of the names, &c. The SPEAKER. If there be no objection further proceedings under 

the call will be dis.Eensed with and the Chair will recognize the gen- -

tleman from Iowa LMr. HENDERSON] for the purpose of calling upthe ~ 

bill he has indicated. 

Several ME!IrnERS. How long is it? 

Mr. WILLIS. It is only about eight or ten lines. 

Mr. COSGROVE. I object. 

l\IESS~GER IN HOU E POST-OFFICE. ; There was no objection. 

So further proceedings under the call were dispensed with. 

MALVIN PIERCE. 

Mr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I ask unanimous consent to have taken 

from the Speaker's table the bill (H. R. 19 5) granting a pension to 

:M:alvin Pierce. I desire that a verbal amendment- of the Senate be 

concuned in. 

There being no objection the bill was taken from the Speaker's table 

and the amendment of the Senate was read, as follows: 

In line 4 of the bill, and also in the title, trike out "Malvin " and insert" Melvin." 

The amendment was concurred in. 

l\fESSAGE FROM THE SE..~ATE. 

A me age from the Senate, by 1\Ir. McCooK, its Secretary, an- nounced that the Senate had agreed to the report of the committee of 

conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses upon the amendments of the Senate to the bill of the House 7069, making appropriations for the legislative, executive, and judicial expenses of the Gov: 

ernment for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, and for other purposes; had further insisted upon its amendments on which the committee of conference had been unable to agree; had agreed to the further 

conference asked by the House and had appointed as conferees on the 

part of the Senate Mr. ALLISOX, MT. DAWES, and Mr. COCKRELL. 

RECE S. 

M:r. BROWNE, of Indiana. I now ask unanimous consent that the 

Hou e take a recess until 3 o'clock. 

There being no objection it was so ordered; and accordingly (at 1 

o'clock and 50 minutes p. m.) the House took a recess until 3 o'clock 

p.m. 

AFTER RECESS. 

At 3 o'clock p. m. the House resumed its session. 

1\fESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by 1\fr. McCooK, its Secretary, announced 

that the Senate had agreed to the report of the committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of 

the Senate to the bill (H. R. 7440) making appropriations for fortifications and other works of defense, and for the armament thereof, for 

the fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, and for other purposes. 

It further announced the passage of bills of the following titles; in 

which concurrence was requested: 

A bill (S. 150) granting a pension to Sarah Denny Ripley; and 

A bill (S. 1422) granting an increase of pension to Abey . Slocum. 

It further announced the passage of the following bills and joint reso- lution of the House without amendment: 

A bill (H. R. 503) granting a pension to Hiram C. Henderson; 

A bill (H. R. 1970) for reliefofl\Irs. Alice T. Sherwood; 

A bill (H. R. 2070) granting a pension to Decatur Hamlin; 

A bill (H. R. 2245) granting a pension to Eliza A. Shealey; . 

A bill (H. R. 3231) granting a pension to Michael Shields; 

A bill (H. R. 3493) granting a pension to Ann Hunter; 

A bill (H. R. 3979) granting an increase of pension to :M:ary Ann 

Egan; 

A bill (H. R. 4254) granting a pension to James Aaron; 

A bill (H. R. 4694) granting a pension to James Clark; 

A bill (H. R. 5889) granting a pension to Alonzo Hooper; 

A bill (H. R. 6677) to increase pension of William Irving; 

A bill (H. R. 3337) authorizing the inspection of the boiler of the 

steamship Kent; 

A bill (H. R. 4492) for the relief of l'IIrs. Pauline E. Milliken; 

A bill (H. R. 5544) for the relief of Laura .J. Goddard; 

A bill (H. R. -6589) for the relief of Asa Dye; 

Mr. SPOONER. Mr. Speaker, I am directed by the Committee on 

Accounts to submit a report, which report I ask the Clerk to read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Your committee, to whom was referred the accompanying petition of the Post- master of the House, respectfully report that in order to provide for the proper transa.ction of the business of the House post--office and the seasonable forwarding of the very large amotmtof mail matter accumulating at and abont the 

end of Congress, it seems necessary to retain the services of the four session messengers employed in the post-office for the period of one month after the 

adjournment of Congress at the present ses ion. 

Also, that to facilitate the dispatch of the heavy mail of the House it is desirable to continue in the same service the mes enger in the heavy-mail wagon of the House post-office during the recess of Congress. Your committee therefore report the two accompanying resolutions and rec- ommend their pas age. Resolved, That the four e sion me sengers of the Hou e post-office be con- tinued in employment one month after the adjournment of Congress at its pres- ent session, to be paid, at-the same rate heretofore paid them, out of the contingent fund of the House. Resolved, That the Postmaster of the House be, and he is hereby, authorized to continue the messenger in charge of the heavy-mail wagon during the recess of Congress, and that such messenger be paid by the Clerk of the Hou e, out of 

the contingent fund of the House, at the same rate of compensation he now receives. ' 

The resolutions were adopted. 

:Mr. SPOONER moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolutions were adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

~Ir. SPRINGER The gentleman from Arkansas withdraws his objection to the resolution I asked leave to offer some time ago. I now ask--

~fr. REED. I demand the regular order. 

The SPEAKER. That is in the nature of an objection. 

COKSULAR AND DIPLOMATIC APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Mr. BURNES. l'l1r. Speaker, in behalf of the committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the consular and 

diplomatic appropriation bill, I am instructed to submit the report 

which I send to the desk. 

The SPEAKER. The report will be read. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

The committee of conference on t.he disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 6770) making appropriations for 

the consular and diplomatic service of the Government for the fiscal year end- · ing June 30,1885, and for other purposes, having met, after full and free confer- ence have agreed to recommend and do recommend to their respective Houses as follows: 

That the Senate recede from its amendments numbered 11, 26, 2:7,30,33, 43,46, 

55, 58, 75,135,139,141,142,145,146,147,148,151,152, 1531 154,155, 160,162, and 165. That the House recede from its disagreement to tne amendments of the Senate 

numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 13, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 28, 29, 31, 32, 34, 35, 36, 40, 45, 47, 48, 49, 50, 

51, 52, 53, 54, 56, 57, 59, 60, 61' 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, B2, 83, 

84,85,86. 7,88,89,90,91,92,93, 94,95,96, 97,99, 100,101,102,103,101,105,106,107,108, 

109,110,1ll,112, ll3,114,ll5, 116,117, 118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,127, L'>9, 130, 132, 

133, 134,136, 137, 144, 156, 157, and 161, and agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate 

numbered 7, 8, and 9, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the amended paragraph insert the following: " For salaries of ministers resident in Belgium, theN ether lands, Hawaiian Islands, and Sweden and Norway, at $7,500 each, $30,000; for salaries of mini ters resident and consuls-general in Venezuela and theArgentineRepublic, at $7,000, 

$15,000." 

And the Senate agree to the same. . That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 12, and agree to the same with an amendment a follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed by said amendment irisert "$4.5,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. · That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 14, and agree to the same with an-amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed by said amendment insert "812,000;" and the Senate agree t~ the same. · That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate 

numbered 15 and 16, and agree to the same with an amendment a-s follows: In 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6095 

lieu of the sum proposed in each of said amendments insert "$2,625; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 17 and 18, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of t.he amended paragraphs iruiert the following: "For salaries of secretaries of legation in Spain, Turkey, Austria, Italy, Bra- zil, and l\Iexico, at $1,800 each, $10,400; for salary of the clerk to the legation in Spain $1,200." And the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen- ate numbered 24, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu f the matter proposed to be stricken out by said amendment insert the follow- ing: "And no secretary or second secretary of any legation shall be entitled to or receive any compensation over the ·above as salary as such secretary for act- ing as charge d'affaires during the t-emporary or other absence without leave of the minister to whose duties he may succeed; " and the Senate agree to the same. 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate riurnbered 25, and agree to the same with au amendment as follows: In lieu of l lle amended paragraph in ert the following: "For the salaries of int-erpreters to the legations in China at $3,000, and in Ja- pan a'l.d Turkey at $2,500 each, $8,000; but no person drawing the salary of in- terpreter as above provided shall be allowed any part of the salary appropri- ated for any secretary of legation or other officers." And the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 37, 38, 39, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the amended paragraph insert the following: " For salaries of consuls-general at Frankfort, Vienna, Bucharest, St. Peters- burg, and Halifax, at$3,000 each, 15,000." And the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 41 and 42, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: Iu lieu of the matter proposed to be stricken out and the matter proposed to be inserted bysaidamendments insertthe following: "For salariesofthe consuls- general at Constantinople and Rome, at $2,000 each, $4,000; for salary of the consul-general at l\Iexico, 82,500; " a.nd the Senate agree to the same. That tbeHouserecede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen- at-e numbered 4-!, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In I ieu of the sum proposed by said amendment insert "$335,600;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen ate numbered 68, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: Insert after said amendment the following: "Greece, Athens;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate :u umbered 80, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: At the end of said amendment insert " 1\Iatamoras; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 98, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: After said amendment insert the following: "Friendly and Navigator's Islands, Apia;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 126, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: 1 n lieu of the matter proposed to be stricken out by said amendment insert the following: "And after June 30, 1884, no consul or consul-general shall be entitled to oral- lowed any part of any salary appropriated for payment of a secretary or second ecretary of legation or an interpreter;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 128, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of t be matter proposed to be inserted by said amendment insert the following: "For allowance for clerks at consulates, $47,920, as follows: For the consul at Liver- pool, a sum not exceeding the rate of $2,000 for any one year; and for the con- suls-general at London, Paris, Havana, Shanghai, and Rio de Janeiro, each a sum not exceeding the rate of 1,600 for any one year; for the consuls-general at Berlin, Frankfort, Vienna, and Kanagawa, and for the consuls at Hamburg, Bre- men, Manchester, Lyons, Hong-Kong, Havre, Crefeld, and Chemnitz, each a sum uot exceeding the rate of $1,200 for any one year; for the consul-general at Mon- treal, and for the consuls at Bradford and Birmingham, each a sum not exceed- ing the rate of 960 for anyone year; for the consuls-general at Calcutta, Port au Prince, Hayti, and Melbourne, and for the consuls at Leipsic, Sheffield, Sonne- uerg, Dresden, l\Iarseilles, Nuremberg, Tunstall, Antwerp, Bordeuux, Colon (As· 

pin wall), Glasgow, and Singapore, each a sum not exceeding the rate of $800 for n.ny one year; for the consuls at Belfast, Barmen, Leith, Dundee, and Mata- moras, and for the consul-general at Halifax, each a sum not· exceeding the rate of $640 for any one year; for the consul-general at l\Iexico, and for the consuls at Naples, Genoa, Stuttgart, Florence, ~lannheim, Prague, Zurich, Panama, and Demerara, each a sum not exceeding the rate uf $480 fur any one year;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate n urn be red 131, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows : In lieu of the sum proposed in said amendment insert "$6,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 138, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the matter proposed to be iu erted by said amendment, insert the following: "For salaries of eight mar hals for the consular courts in Japan, China, and Turkey, ~,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 140, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the matter proposed to be inserted by said amendment, in ert the following : •· For hiring of steam-launch for nse of the legation at Constantinople, $500 ;" 

and the Senate agree to the same. . That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 143, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lien of the matter proposed to be stricken out by said amendment insert the follow- ing : " For the expense of providing all such stationery, blanks, record and other books, seals, presses, flags, signs, rents, postage, furniture, statistics, newspa- pers, freight, foreign and domestic, telegrams, advertising, messenger service, 

including $6,000 for other miscellaneous expenses as the President of the United ~tate may think necessary for the several consulates and commercial agencies in the transaction of their busine , 110,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senat-e numbered 149, and agree to the same with amendments as follows: Restore the paragraph proposed to be stricken out by said amendment, and in lieu of the sum of $5,000 therein stated insert the sum of $7,500; and the Senate agree to the same. 

the matter proposed to be stricken out by said amendment insert the following: " For the purpo e of enabling the President to provide at the public expense all such stationery, blanks, records, and other books, !!eals, presses, flags, and signs as he shall think necessary for tee several legations in the transaction of their business, and also for rent, postage, telegrams, furniture, and traveling expenses, including for miscellaneous expenses, 815,000; in all, $75,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the Honse recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 163, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the matter proposed to be inserted by said amendment insert the following: "For an agent to the State of the Congo Association, $5,000; said agent to be charged ~vith introducing and extending the commerce of the United States in the Congo Valley. And for such purposes the further sum of $10,000or so much thereof as may be necessary; and the President is hereby authorized to appoint in the recess of the Senate:sucb agent, whose commission shall expire at the end of the next session of the Senate ; '' and the Senate agree to the same. That the Honse recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen- ate numbered 164, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the sum proposed in said amendment insert" ~.000;" and the Senate agree to the same. On amendments numbered 158, 166, and 167 the committee of conference is unable to agree. JAMESN. BURNES, 

R. W. TOWNSHEND, W.D. WASHBURN, 

Managers on the part of the H01J,Se. 

W. B. ALLISON, EUGENE HALE, JAMES B. BECK, 

Managers on the part of the &nate. 

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will now read the written statement 

accompanying the report. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The managers on the part of the House of t.he conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 6770) 

making appropriations for the consular and diplomatic service for the fiscal year 18851 and for other purposes, submit the following written stat-ement in explanation of the conference report : The bill as it passed the Senat-e appropriated &,782,576. 75, being an increase of $798,806.75 over the bill as it passed the Honse. The conference committee has agreed upon all of the one h1mdred and sixty- seven amendments of the Senate, except the ones numbered 158, 166, and 167, which appropriate $250,000 to meet the necessary expenses attendant upon for- eign intercourse, to be expended nuder the direction of the President, and pro- vide for three commissioners, at 87,500 each, to be appointed by the President, to ascertain the best modes of securing more intimate international and com- mercial relations between the United States and the several countries of Cen- tral and South America, and for a secretary to said commission at a salary of $-3,000. Upon which amendments it has been unable to agree, and so reports to the House. 

A large number of the amendments were merely clerical, being a rearrange- men~ of the form of the bill, to all of which it is recommended that the House agree. 

The bill as agreed upon, not including the amendments 158, 166, and 167 re- ferred to, appropriates $1,188,890, being ~94,686.75 less than as it passed the Sen- ate, $235,120 greater than as it passed the House, 107,865less than the appropri- ations for the year 1884, and $380,711.75less than the estimates for 1885. JAMES N. BURNES, R. W. TOWNSHE!-."D, W. D. DORSHEIMER, 

Managers on the part of the House. 

Mr. BURNES. It is unnecessary I presume that I should make any 

further statement than that which has been submitted in writing and 

read by the Clerk. It may not be amiss, however, to observe that while 

the Senate pla~ed one hundred and sixty-seven amendments upon the .. 

House bill, more than one-half of them were purely technical andrelated to the arrangement of the bill rather than to any sub tantial q ues- tions affected thereby. I kuow of no reason why I should hesitate now to move that the report be adopted, after which we can take the three 

items on which we have disagreed and have them considered by the 

House. 

In that connection I will say that I had strong hope that the con· 

ferees on the part of the Senate would agree to recede from the amend· 

ments which we have reported a disagreement upon. I believe I may 

say that on the part of Senators other than the conferees it is purely 

from a desire to test the judgment of the House that this d:isagreement 

has occurred. At all events, it becomes necessary that the judgment 

of the House be taken upon the three remaining amendments. 

The fin."'t upon which there is a failure to agree is an amendmentap· 

propriating 250,000 under a certain section of the Revised. Statutes 

which authorizes the appropriation of money for, we may say, the secret 

service of the Government. The other two amendments are pra-ctically 

but one, and relate to the establishment of a commission with a secre- tary to visit the Central and South American States with a view of de- veloping a spirit of commercial friendliness on the part of tho eStates. 

I believe that is all I ·will say at present. 

The report of the committee of conference was adopted. 

Mr. BURNES moved to reconsider the vote by which the report was 

adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Mr. BURNES. I now move that the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 158 be ~ken up and that the House further insist upon its 

disagreement to that amendment. 

The amendment was to insert the following: 

That the Honse recede from its disagreement to theamendmentof the Senate numbered 150, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the matter proposed t-o be inserted by said amendment insert the following: ".For rent of prisons for American convicts in Turkey and for wages of keepers (158) To meet the necessary expenses attendant upon foreign intercourse, to of the same, 1,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. I be expended under the direction of the President, pursuant to requirement of That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment ofthe Senate section 291 of the Revised Statutes, $250,000, or so much thereof as may be nco- numbered 159, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of essary . 

• 
6096 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Mr. WASHBURN. Pending the motionofthe gentleman from Missouri [Mr. BURNES], I move that the House recede from its disagreement to that amendment and agree to the same. 

Mr. BURNES. Wait one moment; I will give you an opportunity 

to make that motion. 

This amendment of the Senate proposes to appropriate $250,000 for 

the secret service of the Government. Before the gentleman on the 

other side proceeds, or takes any steps in the direction of proceeding, 

I think I had better make a statement. We are hedged about by obligations so that it is almost impossible for me to discriminate between 

what ought to be said and what can not be said. My impr ion is, 

accepting the personal assurances of the Secretary of State, that the 

public interest requires that. there should be no discu ion of this question. I say this, not because I seek to avoid di cussion, but in deference to the opinion of the Secretary as to the public interest. 

So far as I am concerned, believing that this House is sufficiently informed of the restrictions attempted to be placed upon us, I shall not 

proceed with the discussion of this question unless it is the desire upon 

the part of gentlemen who represent the State Department, and I have 

simply to say that whatever may be the obligations seemingly placed 

upon us, if we enter into the discussion it mu t necessarily be a full 

and complete discussion of the whole subject and of all the facts and 

all the circumstances bearing upon the proposed appropriation. 

This I do, yielding clear convictions on the subject in deference to 

an alleged public interest. And with this statement, having moved 

that the House insist upon its disagre.ement to the amendment, I will 

leave it to gentlemen on the other side to indicate the course they desire to adopt. And upon my motion I demand the previous question. 

ML SPRINGER. Will the gentleman permit me toaskhim aquestion? 

Mr. BURNES. Certainly. 

Mr. SPRINGER. How far can the gentleman go in stating the object of this appropriation without violating the secrecy of the committee? 

Mr. BURNES. I trust my friend from Illinois{Mr. SPRINGER] will 

not insist upon an answer to his question. I believe it would be well 

for the other side to indicate their preference upon this subject; they 

may be better informed of the limit of the obligation that may be 

claimed is upon us. I will not attempt to define that obligation, nor 

at present admit or deny that there is any whatever. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I desire to know something about-this appropriation before I can vote upon it. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman declines to answer, and demands 

the previous question. . 

Mr. WASHBURN. I understOod my colleague on the committee 

would allow me to make the motion I have indicated. 

Mr. BURNES. Certainly; I will do so. 

1\oir. WASHBURN. I move that the Honse recede from its disagreement to this amendment of the Senate and agree to the same. I will 

simply state in the same line indicateu by my colleague [Mr. BURNES] 

that there are many embarrassments in the discussion of the mattm-s involved in this amendment, and I will not at the present time undertake 

that discu~sion. I will state, however, that the Senate, after listening 

to a very full debate, by an almost unanimous vote placed this amendment on the bill. I think the House will ma.ke a great mistake unless 

it recedes from its disagreement to the amendment. I therefore move 

that the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment, and 

agree to the same, and upon that I call the previous question. 

Mr. BURNES. I beg simply to say, and this will end the debate on 

the subject, that against the judgment or opinion of the distinguished 

gentleman from Minnesota [Mr. WASHBURN] I interpose that of the 

majority of the Committee on Appropriations, that majority of the 

committee having calmly and impartially considered the whole subject and reached a contraryconclusionfrom that of the gentleman from 

Minnesota. 

Mx. HOLMAN. And think that the appropriation ought not to be 

made. 

Mr. BURNES. Yes; that the appropriation ought not to be made. 

Mr. HERBERT. I understand the gentleman from Minnesota [M:r. 

'WASHBURN] to state that it would embarrass him very much to state 

what this appropriation is for. I think it would embarra us on this 

side very much to vote for the amendment unless we know what it is 

for. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I think the amendment shows for ib elf what 

it is for. 

The previous question was ordered. 

The SPEAKER. The first question is on the motion of the gentleman from Minnesota [Mr. WASHBURN] that the Hou e recede from its 

disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 158, and agree 

to the same. , 

The question was taken by a viva voce vote, and the Speaker announced that the noes appeared to have it. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I think we may as well have the yeas and 

nays. 

The yeas and nay were ordered. 

The question was taken; and there were-yeas 80, nays 94, not voting 

150; as follows: 

Adams, G. E. Atkinson, 

Boutelle, 

Brewer, F . B. Brown, W.W. Brunun, 

Calkins, 

Campbell, J. M. Cannon, 

Chalmers, 

Cullen, 

Cutcheon, 

Davis,G.R. 

Davi ,R.T. 

Dingl y, Evan ,I.N. 

Everhart, 

Findlay, 

Finerty, 

George, 

Adams, J. J . Alexander, 

Bagley, 

Barksdale, 

Bayne; Bennett, 

Blount, 

Breckinridge, 

Broadhead, 

Buchanan, 

Burnes, 

Campbell, J. E. Carleton, 

Cassidy, 

Clay, 

Co grove, Cox,S.S. 

Cox, W.R. Crisp, 

Culberson, D. B. Dargan. 

Deuster, 

Dibble, 

Dibrell, 

Greenleaf, 

Guenther, 

Hancock, 

Hart 

Hatch, H. H. Hepburn, 

Hilt, Horr, 

Howey, 

Hunt, 

James, Jeffords, K asson, 

Kean, Keifer, Kellogg, 

Laird, 

Libbey, 

Lyman, 

:McComas, 

Dowd, 

Eldredge, 

Follett, 

Foran, 

Forney, 

Garrison, 

Geddes, 

Gibson, 

Glascock, 

Grayes, 

Green, 

Halsell, 

Hatch,W.H. 

Hemphill, 

Henley, 

Herbert, 

Hewitt,G.W. 

Hoblitzell, 

Holman, 

Houseman, 

Joues,J.H. 

Jordan, 

Kleiner, 

Lanham, 

YEAS-80. 

McCormick., Millard, 

Miller, S. H. Morrill, 

Nelson, 

Ochiltree, 

O'Neill, Charles 

O'Neill, J. J. Parker, 

P a)'-ne, 

P ayson, Perkins, Peters, 

Phelps, 

Poland, 

Potter, 

Ranney, 

Ray,G.W. Ray, Ossian 

Rockwell, 

NAY8-94. 

Lore, 

Lowry, 

l\Iaybury, 

Miller, J. F. 

Mills, 

Muldrow, 

Murray, 

Neece, Oates, 

O'Hara, 

Pierce, 

P eel, 

Pryor, 

Pusey, Randall, 

Reese, 

Riggs, Robinson, W. E. Rogers, J. H. Seney, 

Singleton, 

Springer, 

Stewart, Charles Sumner~ C. A. 

NOT VOTING-150. 

Aiken, Davidson, Jones, B. W. 

Anderson, Davis,L.H. Jones,J.K. 

Arnot, Dockery, Jones,J.T. 

Ballentine, Dorshei.mer, Kelley, 

Barbour, Duncan, Ketcham, 

Barr, Dunham, King, Beach, Dunn, Lwey, 

Eelford, Eaton Lamb, 

Belmont, Elliott, La wrence, Bingham, Ellis Le Fevre, 

Bibee, Ellw~d, Lewis, 

Blackburn, English, Long, 

Blanchard, Ermentrout, Lovering, 

Bland, . Evins, J. H. McAdoo, Bowen, Ferrell, McCoid, 

Boyle, Fiedler, McMillin, 

Brainerd, Funston, Matson, 

Breitung. Fyan , Milliken, 

Brewer, J . H. Goff, :Mitchell, 

Browne, T. M. Hammond, ~Ioney, 

Buckner, Hanback, Morgan, Budd, Hardeman, Morrison, 

Burleigh, H ardy, 1\Iorse, Cabell, Harmer, Moulton, 

Caldwell Haynes, Muller, 

Campbeil, Felix Henderson, D. B. Murphy, 

Candler, Henderson, T.J. Mutchler, 

Chace, Hewitt, A. S. Nicholls, 

Cla.rdy, Hill Nutting, 

Clements, Hi~k, O'Ferrall, 

Cobb, Holmes, Paige, 

Collin , Holton, Patton, 

Connolly, Hooper, Pettibone, 

Converse, Hopkins, Post, 

Cook, Houk, Price, 

g~~~s~r{, W. W. ~~~hins, ~=; Curtin Johnson, Reed, 

Rosecrans, 

Rowell, 

Ryan, 

Skinner, 0. R. Smalls, Smith, 

Spooner, 

Stephenson, 

Stewart,J. W. Strait, 

Struble, 'l'aylor, J.D. Thomas, 

Valentine, 

Washburn, 

White, J.D. White, Milo 

Whitingi.-

Wilson,Jame 

Winans, John. 

Taylor, J.l\I. 

Tillman, 

Townshend, 

Turner, H. G. 

Turner, Oscar Van Alstyne, 

Vance, 

Van Eaton, 

Wallace, 

Warner, Richard 

Wellborn, 

Weller, 

Williams, 

Willis, 

Wilson, W. L. Winans, E. B. Wise, G. D. 

Wolford, 

Wood, 

Woodward, 

Yaple, 

York. 

Rice, 

Robertson, 

Robinson, J. S. 

Rogers, W.F. Russell, 

Scales, 

Seymour, Shaw, 

Shelley, 

Skinner, T. G. 

Slocum, 

Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Steele, 

Stevens, 

Stockslager, 

Stone, 

Storm, 

Sumner, D. H. Talbott, Taylor, E. B. 

Thompson, 

Throckmorton, 

Tucker, Tully, 

Wadsworth, 

Wait, 

Wakefield, 

Ward, 

Warner, A. J. Weaver, 

Wemple, Wilkins, 

Wis~~.,J_.S. 

Wormington, Young. 

So the motion of Mr. WASHBURN was not agreed to. 

Mr. ALEXANDER. My colleague Mr. MORGAN is sick and unable 

to be in the Honse to-day. 

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will announce the additional pairs. 

The following were announced as paired for this day: 

fr. WILKINS with Mr. HE~DERSOX 1 of Iowa. 

Mr. LE FEVRE with l\Ir. WAD WORTH. 

l\lr. LACEY with Mr. MONEY. 

Mr. Jo~TES, of Wiscon in, with 1\'lr. TAYLOR, of Tennessee. Mr. BLANCHARD and 1\.fr. HoLTON were announced as paired until 

further notice. 

Mr. WILLIS. I was paired the other day with the gentleman from 

Illinois [Mr. HE .. DERSON]. I do not know whether that pair has ex- pired. Fearing that the gentleman from illinois may regard the pair as continuing, I withdraw my vote. 

There ult of the vote was announced as above stated. 

• 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6097 

ENROLLED Bll..L SIGNED. 

Mr. YAPLE, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the committee had examined and found truly enrolled a bill of the following title; when the Speaker signed the same: A bill (H. R. 1985) granting a pension to Melvin Pierce. 

DIPLOMATIC APPROPRiATION Bll..L. 

The House resumed the consideration of the amendments of the Senate, not disposed of by the conference report, to the consular and diplomatic appropriation bill. 

The SPEAKER. The question now recurs upon the motion of the 

gentleman from Missouri [Mr. BURNES] that the House further insist 

upon its disagreement to the Senate amendment 158. 

The motion was agreed to. · Mr. BURNES moved to reconsider the vote just taken; and also moved 

that the motion to recoJlSider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion wa:S agreed to. 

Mr. BURNES. I now move that the House insist on its disagreement to the amendments numbered 166 and 167; and upon that motion 

I demand the previous question. 

The amendments of the .Senate were to insert the following pamgraphs: 

For three commissioners to be appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, at a compensation of $7,500 each. Said commissioners shall ascertain the best modes of securing more in~imate international 

and commercial relations between the United States and the several countries 

of Central America, and for that purpose they shall visit such countries in Ven- tral and South .America us the President may direct. For one secretary to said commission, to be appointed by .the Pt:e~ident, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, ~,000; andm add1tlon to the 

foregoing amounts such further sum as may be required for the re!!Sonable ex- penses of said commission, such expenses to be paid upon the ce~tificate C?f ~he 

chairman thereof and approved by the Secretary of State; and sa1d comm.ISSwn 

shall report their aetion to the President, for transmission to Congress, with such 

recommendation as he may deem fitting. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I hope my colleague on the committee [Mr. 

BURNES] will withdraw the demand for the previous question so that 

I may make a motion that the House recede. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman can make that motion at any rate. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I move that the House recede from its disagreement to these two amendme~ts and agree to the same. I desire to 

state briefly that I do not suppose that there is any gentleman on this 

floor--

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from M~issouri withdraw the 

demand for the previous question? 

Mr. BURNES. I will inquire whether my colleague on the committee 

desires to debate this proposition? 

Ur. WASHBURN. I wish to make a brief statement. 

Mr. BURNES. Ur. Speaker, is there any limitation upon the debate? 

The SPEAKER. There is not, unless thepre"iousquestion be ordered; 

in which case there will be thirty minutes for debate. 

Mr. BURJ\TES. Then I insist on the call for the previous question. 

When the previous question is ordered, we can discuss this matter. 

Mr. KASSON. I suggest that the gentleman from Minnesota [Mr. 

WASHBURN], on his own motion to recede, is entitled to the floor. 

The SPEAKER. But the previous question was called. 

111r. WASHBURN. I understood the call for the previous question was withdrawn in order to allow me to make the motion to recede. 

The SPEAKER. That was not necessary in order to admit the mo- tion, but pending the call for the previous question the motion is not 

debatable. If the previous question be ordered there will be thirty 

minutes for debate. 

The previous question was ordered. 

The SPEAKER. There· are now thirty minutes for debate, fifteen 

minutes in favor of the motion and fifteen minutes in opposition. 

Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Speaker, I presume there is not a member 

of either House of Congress, nor an intelligent citizen of this country, 

who has given any attention to the subject, who does not feel deeply 

humiliated at the condition of our commercial relations with the States 

referred to in this amendment-the Southern and Central American 

States. The position which we occupy to-day as anation with respect 

to them is absolutely humiliating. With these republics lying right at our doors we are to-day, from the want of proper reciprocal relations, 

absolutely robbed of all the benefits to which we are properly entitled. 

The President of the United States and the Secretary of State, recognizing this condition of things, desire to take the first step to see 

whether something can not be done to inaugurate such commercial re- lations with those countries as will give to the United States·the advantages we should enjoy. Thegreatdifficulty under which we labor 

to-day is the want of a market for our products. Under the existing 

condition of things we are absolutely shut out from these countries, 

which should naturally be our markets. 

I hope this House will recede from its disagreement and allow a com- mission of intelligent gentlemen to take up and investigate fully this 

whole question, ultimately leading to treaties and arrangements which 

will give to this country and its citizens in the way of commercial intercoUL--se what they are naturally entitled to. I .reserve what remains 

of my time. 

XV-382 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has twelve minutes remaining. 

Mr. BURNES. :Mr. Speaker, I beg in a few words to call the atten- ·on of the House to what I consider is involved in this amendment. 

We have the expense of Government representatives in every state in 

South and Central America: We have ministers, consuls, consuls-general, and secretaries of legation in a,U of the. South and Central Ameri- can states under the most liberal appropriations ever granted by Congress, many of these in excess of the demands of the State Department. 

The Appropriations Committee, without the recommendation of the Secretary of State, have added secretaries of legation and created consulates, 

so that in every one of these South American states we have representatives, ministers, consuls, and secretaries of legations largely beyond any 

former service. They are there, sir, everywhere. 

We presume they are intelligent gentlemen. We have to presm;ne 

that they are qualified for the discharge of the duties imposed on them 

by law. We are not here to say they are incompetent or unfaithful, 

but we are here as representatives of the people and say ~hat they 

shall discharge the duties which have devolved upon them under 

the law. While these officers are there at every government, while 

the Secretary of Stat-e has the great advantage of diplomatic and con- sular service at every capital and every commercial city, why should 

he ask for more ministers, consuls, and secretaries of legation under 

the name of commissioners to look out for matters made the duty of 

our ministers and consuls by law? And why can not he in Washington, where he is in daily intercourse with our representatives abroad, 

and with numerous citizens of South and Central America, confer with 

them and ordering the officers to their posts instruct them to do the 

work required of them by law, rather than give it to new commissioners, extra or special officers of the Government, unknown and unnamed 

in the Constitution. 

What necessity can there be for a roving commission at $7,500 a year 

to each one of its three members, with a secretary and with contingent 

and traveling expenses, to go wandering and junketing from state to 

state and I might say from speculation to speculation and from private interest to private interest? Are not those who have resided at 

Lhese several governments for long periods of time better able to tell 

the movements of trade and commerce in their respective localities 

than this itinerant commission? Shall we discharge or supersede these 

officials who are now acting as ministers an9 consuls? Shall we ig- nore and dishonor them? Shall we send others there to perform the 

duties which have been confided to them? Is it not a confession that 

they have not been of any service to the Government when it is proposed to send out a commission to do the very work which they ought 

to have done if they are capable of doing anything at all? 

I submit to gentlem~ of the House on both sides that this being a purely business question the officials now in South and Central Ameri- can states ·are incompetent and unfaithful in the discharge of th~ 

public duties imposed upon them. If so, is it not better that the President in the exercise of his executive functions should remove them from 

the offices for which they are incompetent and appoint in their places 

some of the commercial men of the country whose business has well 

prepared them for the labor of ministers and consuls and secretaries of 

-legation? Let this be done and I will guarantee they will not require an extra commission to do their work for them. Let the President prepare the commercial treaty which he desires submitted to each one of 

these sta~. Let him order immediate or simultaneous negotiations 

to be opened and pressed by our representatives and regular reports to 

be made to him, so that operations in every state will be focused here 

in the State Department. 

Let him and them work up to a general conclusion, and each minister and each consul so working definitely and reporting regularly will 

be a permanent aid and adjunct in the accomplishment of useful re• suits. Thus the end desired will be accomplished without commis~ 

sioners and without extra cost to the public Treasury. 

Now, Mr. Speaker, other gentlemen may do as they please, but for 

myself I will not consent to the unnecessary duplication of officers of 

thi.&Government. We have representatives now. I will not agree to 

appoint a new set to do their work. My constituents require me to 

do the work of the position they have confidingly given me here, and 

I can noj; consent that others shall have substitutes unauthorized by 

law or any public necessity, thereby doubling expenses and encourag~ 

ing and rewarding the faithless and incompetent. The saered Scriptures warn us agai..n!3t supplanting another in his work, and the Constitution of our country and the common honesty of our people abhor the 

proposition to appoint and pay two men for doing the work of one. Commissions like this proposed were no part of the diplomatic or com- mercial machinery authorized by the Constitution, and they are not in 

much favor with me. Whenever we have tried them we have been deceived or betrayed. They are inventions of modern growth, and are 

usu::illy organized for private ends and .aims. Places are in demand. 

Borrowing from the great-hearted President, there are more "pegs 

than holes. '' Sinecures are easily found. Partisan service is too often 

paid for out of the Treasury rather than from the pocket of the beneficiary of such service. Political favorites, not active, able business 

men, such as travel for the great business houses of this country, will 

be your commissioners. If we agree to this amendment $50,000 per 
6098 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

year w.Jl be the cost of these four new officials. But the worst evil is 

that you r ecognize the :principle of duplication of public officers in 

order to accommodate the throng of office-mongers. 

I will yield for five minutes to my colleague on the Committee on 

Appropriations, the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND]. 

.Mr. TOWNSHEND. I will reserve the time until I have heard from 

the other side. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I will yield for five minutes to the gentleman 

from Iowa [Mr. KASSON]. 

Mr. KASSON. I hardly know and hardly believe there is much advantage in prolonging a discussion where the opposition to it rests 

largely upon a conviction that the object of government is to prevent 

it from doing anything on the ordinary principles of business. This 

proposition does not originate with the Government as an absolute initiative. It came from the Mississippi Valley, it came from the business men of that valley. They believe, they say, that a commission 

of business men sent for the express purpose of uniting the opinion and 

judgment of different small countries and bringing about an exchange 

of views directly between them independent of political relations and 

political obligations, would secure good results to the commercial interests of the United States. They have asked such a provision should 

be made. The Senate have introduced an amendment upon this bill, 

and the question is whether there are not prospects of business advantage sufficient to induce us to grant it. How can you get a crop tmless you plant? How can you plant without some expense? I did 

greatly desire to speak to this House for a few moments on the entire 

programme for enlarging the commerce and influence of the United 

States on the Western continent. 

I did desire to ask gentlemen to observe the line of a ship sailing 

from Liverpool to the·west coast of South America and contrast it with 

the line pursued by an American ship sailing from the port of New 

York for the same destination. She starts now from New York and 

goes southeast sailing on a course away from her destination until she 

turns the point of Bra:zil, and then runs like the European ship toward her destination. · . 

But when you have done what the 'United States will be treasonably 

guilty if it shall not do; when it is done, when you have opened the 

way across that lake and isthmus of Nicaragua, then your ship from 

New York sails directly to her destination upon a great circle, and by 

a route shorter than that now pursued by nearly the distance from 

Liverpool to New York. 

Then if you look 1,1pon the globe, and I trust that some of you to 

whom I have spoken personally since the last Congress upon this question have done so, you will be surprised to see the advantage the United 

States gains over England in tmding to that coast of South America. 

While now from England they have a straight line to the South Cape, 

we go two sides of a triangle, and the advantage is all with Liverpool. 

Mr. Speaker, that is but a part of the scheme, of which this is another 

part, to extend the influence and the commercial relations of the United 

States to establish treaties of reciprocity with small countries as well 

as great countries where we have one minister now for five of these 

Central American states, -and where, if he were to go from one to the 

other it would require the entire period of the year's service for traveling. It is proposed that your business commission shall go there to 

~ commerce to them, to talk railroads to them, to talk routes of communication by water to them, to tell them what we produce in this 

country, what their merchants can trade on, and what there is that 

can be disposed of in this country, what we will take of their products, 

and to talk over all other business projects with all of these countries, 

presenting the advantages of ours to them, and I thank the executive 

government for having a-dopted the business proposi.ti.ons of business 

men in this country; and I think this House will neglect its duty if it 

does not approve of this recommendation ofthlil Executive--

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has expired. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Mr. Speaker, I look to the southern countries, 

to Mexico, South America, and to Central America, as the future market 

for the surplus products of this country; and I feel that the most im- .portant problem ~hich will be likely to engage the attention of our 

statesmen for a long time in the future is that course which will pave 

the way to close commercial alliances with all the nations on the American continent-the establishment of the same commercial freedom 

among them as that which exists among the States of this Union. I 

will go as far as he who goes furthest to advance the interests of the 

United States in that direction. I would be the last person to hamper 

or delay such a consummation. There is but small foundation for the 

hope that any considerable extension of the market for our surplus mam,lfactured products can be made in Europe, and our present com- mand of 'the wheat market there is threatened by the development of 

India. Our pork is being discriminated against by several European 

countries. 

I fear tha.t the manufacturers of Europe will ever be able to exclude 

the products of our workshops from theEa.st. Thereforenecessity and 

wisdom demand that we should look to the south and to the west for 

our most lucrative trade. We must look to Uexico, Central America, 

South America, China, Japan, Australia, and the islands of the seas for 

our future commercial prosperity. If we will knock, they will open 

their doors to our commerce. Indeed, theyinviteustocome. Mexico 

has led the way by her recent reciprocity treaty with us, which others 

will follow if we desire them to do so. It is for this reason I am ready 

to join hands with all who are willing to move in the direction which 

will advance our commercial interests with the other nationalities on 

this continent. But, sir, I do not believe such a result can "be achieved 

by the proposed amendment of the Senate. What does this amendment 

do? 

It seeks to appoint a roving commission, to gather just such statistics 

and information as we have already furnished to us by the official documents emanating from these various countries or our official agents 

there. We have. accredited agents to these countries, diplomatic and 

consular ag~nts, who will accomplish everything that can possibly be 

accomplished by this expensive commission. We can by the use of a 

few postage-stamps instruct these agents to gather up the desired information, and accomplish all that you seek to accomplish by the expenditure of some $25,000, as will be required if this provision of the 

Senate shall prevail. · 

Now, in order to evidence the sincerity of my' desire and to promote 

closer commercial relations with those countries, I wish to send to the 

desk a joint resolution which was introduced by myself at the beginning of this session, authorizing the President, who can act through our 

diplomat.ic agents, to invite the co-operation of the governments on this 

ontinent in securing the establishment of a commercial league or a 

commercial union similar to that which has so long existed among the 

states of Germany and known as the German Zollverein. 

The Clerk will please read: 

Joint resolution requesting the President to invite the co-operation of the gov- ernments of American nations in securing the establishment of free commer- cial intercourse aJ:Pong those nations and an American customs union. 

Whereas the establishment of free commercial intercourse among the nations now existing upon the continent of America will promote the friendly political 

relations, internal commerce and industry, and secure a more extensive market 

for the surplus prQducts of each of said nations: Therefore, 

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the President of the United States be, and he is here- by, requested to invite the co-operation of the governments of the American 

nations in securing the establishment of a commercial league by and between 

the said nation , to be known a.s the customs union of America, the arrange- ment of a common basis of import duties from other countries than those which may compose said league, and that the commercial intercourse among the peo- ple of all the American states may be freetl from the payment of any customs or other dues whatever; and that a common system of weights and measures may be also established for the purpose of facilitating such intercourse. 

The establishment of this union in Germany led not only to the great 

Commercial prosperity of the German states, but has finaJly led to their 

politicaJ unification. I believe that wise and enlightened action on the 

part of this Government will bring i;ogether representatives of all the 

governments on this continent in an international convention or congress, where investigation, discussion, and deliberation may be had and 

this grand object may be accomplished; and we shall thereby secure a 

free market for the products of our farms and our workshops, protected 

against competition from other lands. 

In such a convention or assemblage of intelligent representatives of 

the American nations the mutual advantages which will ensue to all 

concerned can be shown and appreciated. The other countries in the 

commercial union being without manufactures to any considerable extent, and their raw materials and products being in the main different 

from those of our own country, show that no serious conflict of interest 

can arise. They have need for our manufactured articles and farm 

products, and we can with profit take in return their products. Similarity of political institutions and mutuality of interest will promote the peace, the friendly relations, the enlightenment, and pro perity of the people, as surely as such circumstances will develop the resources of all the nations concerned. Such a commercial union would 

be the beginning of an era of prosperity far beyond the hopes or 

dreams of any who have studied the future of the American continent. The scheme that I advocate is purely commercial- in no wise political. I do not believe a political union of these countries is desirable or beneficial. Their welfare and happiness can be promoted best by a 

continuance of their separate and independent sovereignty. The territory subject to our political power is large enough. As a. lover of 

the welfare of my country, proud of its extent,its greatnessandglocy-, 

as one ardently deSirous of its future peace, prosperity, and grandeur, 

I would rather see our flag supplant the dominion of Great Britn.in over 

the world's commerce than behold it the s~bol of sovereignty over the 

territory of the whole American continent. 

I believe the establishment of such a commercial league would silence 

in a large degree t,he divisions existing among our people on the tariff. 

With a free market for their surplus products in those countries, protected by a common "basis of customs duties against the remainder of 

the world, the manufacturers would be content to see free trade established among the American nations; and by the time that such a policy 

would demonstrate the advantage of free trade in America, the national 

debt and the pensions to soldiers would no doubt be so far diminished as 

to enable us to dispense with tariff taxation altogether, and then would 

rise a universal demand in this country for free trade with all the 

world. 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6099 

Such a commercial league should therefore be favored by protection- ists as well as free-traders; for while it does establish the same freedom 

of trade among the American nations as exists among the States of this 

Union, it at the same time opens a free market for our surplus products, 

while it continues the barrier against European competition. 

It should be favored by Mexicans and Spanish-Americans as well as by North .Americans, because it would develop the internal commerce 

and stimulate the trade of all the countries concerned. 

The trade of those countries ought to be controlled by us. Their nearness to us, the facilities of communication by water or rail, all 

give us the advantage over any other country. What share of this 

trade do we get now? The statistics will show that England, France, 

and Germany come to our door and take away the bulk of this trade. Look at the figures. Our trade with some of those countries is so insignificant in comparison with England and France as to be humiliating to the pride of our country. Take Chili and Peru, so remote from 

EW'Ope and yet, compamtive+y speaking, easy of access to us across the Isthmus of Panama or from California, and see the disparity: 

Exports from- Chili. Peru. Total. 

Great Britilin ........... : ............... ............ ...... $32, 064., 347 $18,751,466 $50,815, suf 

~~~dEitate·~:::: :: :::: ::::::::::::::: :: :~:::::::::::::: 1:: ga~: ~g g; rrt ~~ ~: i~;; ~ 

I have not yet had access to the statistics of the trade of these coun- tries with other European countries. Their trade in 18 0 with all 

foreign countries amounted to 653,701,000, of which $373,994,000 were imports and consisted mainly of manufactured articles. Of those imports England furnished $88,520,000; France, 62,771,000; and the 

United States only 36,044,000. If this commercial union is established these figures would be more than reversed. 

If such a union is formed, of course a common ba is for customs duties 

should be provided on imports from other countries outside of the 

league. The German Zollverein or Customs Union, to which I have 

referred, demonstrates the immense advantages accruing from such a league to people of contiguous nations with common interests. It has 

contributed more than all else to the prosperity of the German states, 

and was instrumental in bringing about their final political unity . . Our effort to establish this union may at first meet with the difficulties encountered in the establllihment of the G~an Zollverein. At first only two states entered into the league; but as the advantages 

became known others joined, and by January, 1854, all the German 

states were included except Holstein, Mecklenberg, Limburg; Hamburg, and Bremen. Its subsequent accessions and success are well 

known. Ther~fore, if we should only commence with a.l\Iexican com- mercial alliance, in time all the other countries would join. At any rate, we. have everything to gain and nothing to lose by the 

attempt. The greatest danger which threatens the prosperity of our country is that which may result from production of more than we can market. If the time comes when the manufacturer can not sell his wares or the farmer can not find a market for his grain and provisions, 

then stagnation will follow. This teaches us we should without delay seek au e:A.'tended and permanent market. I have already said, as 

we can not look for it eastward we must look for it southward and 

westward. A vigorous, wise foreign policy will secure it for us. 

This proposition, I repeat, has no political purposes. The countries 

concerned are independent nations, and would resent our advance with 

such motives, but would welcome us if we should convince them our object is purely commercial. By this proposition we should turn away 

from old-fashioned political diplomaey and utilize our foreign agencies 

to extend our·commerce and open new markets. In the remaining hours of this session I only have time to briefly call 

attention to this great question, but I will avail myself of this opportunity to say that I shall at the next session press the consideration of 

the joint resolution I have offered, and trustifitshould fail that some measure having in view the same object may be adopted . 1\fr. WASHBURN. How much time have I remaining? 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has seven minutes of his time re- maining. l'I:Ir. WASHBURN. I only desire to remark that what the gentle- man from Illinois has stated very much reminds me of a friend of mine 

who said he was in favor of the Maine liquor law, but he was against its 

execution. I yield four minntes to the gentleman from Connecticut 

[.Mr. EATON]. 

1\fr. EATON. I have investigated this matter somewhat for several 

years past, and I have no doubt I agree with my friend from Illinois 

[Mr. TOWNSHEND J in one respect, that we must look to the states 

south of us for a market for our manufactures and the products of the 

farm also to a great extent. But I differ with him in this: I do not 

believe that the diplomatic and consular agents that are there are the men to commence this business treaty. What does this call for? It 

calls for commercia;! and manufacturing men. Ur. TOWNSHEND. Will my friend from Collllecticut allow me to 

say he is mistaken as to my position? I do not propose to authorize our 

diplomates or consular agents to inaugurate this treaty, but to invite 

those countries to send commissioners to us for that purpose. 

Mr. EATON. You want to get that information through these gen- tlemen, and I want to get it through men who know what they are doing. 

Therefore I will take commercial men and manufacturing men and send 

them there. We are building our railroads into l'I:Iexico and in a com- paratively short time will have railroads extending .five hundredmiles 

south of Mexico. Now let commercial and manufacturing men be intrusted with this 

business. Let them go to all these people. Let them talk with the 

commercial and manufaeturing men of those countries. Let us build 

up a trade between this country and the southern republics. 

I have no doubt about this subject at all. I believe a true patriotism would dictate to us to go to the largest extent that wa-s prudent 

and cautious in this matter. I have no fears that the President of the 

United States will notappointpropermen to carry out this greatmeasure; and I ask this House to put into the hands of the administration a small sum of money that will in my opinion prove of inestimable 

value to us within the ensuing year or within the near future. An 

expenditure is proposed of .. 25,000 for what my friend is pleased to 

call a roving commission. A roving commission! Gentlemen sent 

for a particular and specific purpose to meet with the people south of 

us; not to negotiate, but to show to the people in power in Nicaragua, 

in the Argentine Republic, and everywhere else they may go, the great 

advantage it would be to them if there could be an exchange of com- modities between those people and this people. , The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Connecti~ut has 

expired. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I yield two minutes to the gentleman from 

Louisiana [Mr. HUNT]. 

l!fr. HUNT. My duties upon the shipping coiU.Iillttee have re- quired that I should look somewhat into this subject. I find that 

England and France, through their capital invested in steamships and 

communicating lines of commerce to the countries south of us, have 

caused the traffic which belongs to the United States to be drawn iri 

an unnatural direction. The course taken recently in Congress by 

way of repealing the compulsory postal laws, which oblige American 

vessels in the foreign carrying trade to transport the mails virtually 

without compensation, looks to an enlightened change of public policy. The Government, by reason of its recent liberal course toward the 

World's Exposition to be held at New Orleans has perhaps done more than anything else could have done to pave the way for freer and more liberal intercourse with the people of the countries to which I have 

referred. 

I ask, Mr. Speaker, how can this be aecomplished well unless you 

send experts, informed commercial men, to visit these countries? And 

what is the expense in the way of salary compared to the valuable 

knowledge that will be obtained and to the large commercial advantages that must necessarily result? 

Mr. WASHBURN. I yield one minute to the gentleman from 1\Iissouri [Mr. O'NEILL]. 

Mr. 0' NEILL, of Missouri. I can state, with the concurrence of Mr. 

BROADHEAD, the other member from Saint Louis, that the merchants 

and manufacturers of that city give this proposition their unqualified 

hearty support under the belief that it will give to this country a trade 

that rightfully belongs tO us and that is now diverted to other. coun- tries through the absence ofproper commercial relations. t 

The people of Central and South America are strongly in sympathy 

with our people and institutions, and through the agency of a compe- tent commission can be readily induced to enter into strong commercial 

relations with us. The introduction of the American system of railways in Mexico and its -rapid extension southward gives strong assur- ance that we will soon be united to those people with ties of close commercial communication, provided they can be induced to co-operate in 

this grand work, which I imagine will be one of the principal efforts of 

the commission. It is fraught with bright promise to our commercial 

interests, and I earnestly hope the amendment will be adopted. 

1\Ir. BURNES. I beg just to call the attention of the House for a moment to the language of the amendment: 

For three commissioners to be appointed by the President, by and with the 

advice and consent of the Senate, at a compensation of 7,500 each. Said com- missioners shall ascertain the be t modes of securing more intimate international and commercial relations between t·he United States and the several 

countries of Central and South America, and·· for that purpose they shall visit 

such countries in Central and South America as the President may direct. 

If gentlemen will point to any law or regulation of the State Depart- ment that does not make it the duty of ministers and consuls to do this 

particular work, then I shall ackJ;wwledge myself in error. But they can not. 

I desire to say a word to my friend, the distinguished gentleman 

from Iowa [1\Ir. KASSON]. In the language of those from the l!Iissis- sippi Valley who have urged this scheme upon him, he has been un- able to read between the lines the bitter irony in regard to the ineffi- ciency of the present service in South and Central America.. That is 

all. We all, everywhere, want all the trade we can get. Some of us object to a scheme that, under the name of seeking it, takes ll()ID all 

our ministers and consuls in South and Central America the work they 
6100 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. J ULY 5, 

are paid for performing and intrusts it to duplicate ministers or consuls under the name of commissioners, &c. 

I regret, however, that my friend from Iowa [Mr. KASSON] has given us the intelligence that this was not a movement on the part of the 

Secretary of State; that it was not conceived by the Administration, 

whatever the indorsement given to it by sending it here. I say that 

the judgment of the State Department seems to have been against it 

until attention was called to it, as the gentleman says, by business men 

ofthe Mississippi Valley. In reply to the remarks of the gentleman from New Orleans [Mr. 

H UNT] I have a word. We have done pretty well for New Orleans at 

this session. Will he never give us a rest? I love New Orleans very 

much indeed, and hope she may not tarnish her glory and glut her 

spirit of enterprise by the cry of the horse-leech so long as our Treasury 

has a dollar of swplus. 

Mr. BROADHEAD. I would ask my colleague if the business men of the :1\fississippi Valley are not just as capable of judging of the importance of this matter as the Secretary of State? 

Mr. BURNES. I answer my colleague by saying that the Secretary of State has great duties enjoined upon him by the Constitution 

and the laws. It is his business to study all these questions. I pre- sume he does. He ought to. The business men of Saint Louis are 

equal to any in the world, but they study their ledgers and stockbooks more clo ely than they do the avenues of trade and commerce or the proper diplomatic and consular service of this Government. 

They attend to their own business well and intelligently; they are 

great and successful in that respect, but if I had their ear I would say 

that they sometimes make a great fuss about very small matters, and 

sometimes make none at all when they might well cry aloud from the 

hoiL5e-tops. 

Mr. ADAMS, of New York. I would ask the gentleman what are 

the average salaries paid to our consuls in these different countries. Mr. BURNES. In South America? 

~1r. ADAMS, of New York. Yes; about how much? 

Mr. BURNES. Our ministers there are paid from $7,500 to $12,000 

a year each. 

Mr. ADAMS, of New York. I believe there is only one minister 

there. 

Mr. BURNES. There are some ten or twelve ministers and envoys 

extraordinary, and double as many consuls and consuls-general. 

Mr. ADAMS, of New York. What are our consuls paid? 

Mr. BURNES. From two to three and four thousand dollars a year. I can not answer the gentleman more fully; the time is short. 

I say here that it is true, as my honored friend from Connecticut 

( Mr. EATON] says, we wa~t this trada It is a question as to the 

3oo-ency to be adopted in order to obtain it. I ask him whether we shall 

have a double agency or a single agency for this purpose? What zeal 

induces the gentleman to stand forth here against the judgment of the 

people of this country as represented on this floor? What induces him 

to do t hat? 

Mr. EATON rose. . Mr. BURNES. The gentleman can answer it at his leisure and 

through the RECORD, if he wishes; but not now. Mr. EATON. I neverwriteforthe RECORD; I speak what I have to 

say. ~Ir. BURNES. Very well; speak it in your own time. I say that we have reduced the tariff duties on coffee and various other articles 

produced in those countries without any sort of compensation. So long as we maintain war taxes here at home we can not hope to compete for 

this trade. The seeds of the disease lie in our laws on the tariff question, which the gentleman is unwilling to change. Trade-general 

trade with the states of the south- will come when revenue is made 

the primary object of all tariff legislation, and commerce flies once 

more in American ships and under our own flag. 

I now yield the remainder of my time to my distinguished friend 

from Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT]. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has two minutes of his time remaining. 1\1r. BLOUNT. I do not believe I will use that. 

Mr. SPRINGER (to Mr. BLOUNT). Give it to me. 

:1\ir. BLOUNT. What side are you on? 

Mr. SPRINGER. On your side. Mr. BLOUNT. All right. 

1\'Ir. SPRINGER. The gentleman gives me his two minutes' time. 

I am quite as anxious as gentlemen on the other side and a few gentlemen on this side to have the trade of South Carolina (laughter ]-of 

the South American republics. And I will tell those gentlemen when 

they will get it. The same hour in which it will come to us will be that 

hour and t hat day when we can sell the manufactured articles of this 

country to them at the same or at less prices than can England and the 

other countries of Europe. Whenever we can do that we will have 

their trade. But you can send commissioners to South America from now until 

the day of judgment, and you may drink barrels and barrels of champagne with the people there, and you can never sell a wool hat to a 

single citizen of those Countries until you can sell it as cheap or cheaper 

than such articles are sold by the countries of Europe. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. WASHBURN. I will now yield my half-minute of time re- maining to the gentleman from Connecticut [.rt1r. EATON]. 

The' SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has expired. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I think I have a half-minute remaining. • 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman had seven minutes remaining, and 

yielded four minutes to the gentleman from Connecticut [lli. EATON], 

two minutes to the gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. HUNT], and one minute to the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. O'NEILL]. 

Mr. WASHBURN. And the gentleman from Missouri [1\ir. O'NEILL] 

used only half a minute; and the half-minute remaining I yielded to 

the gentleman from Connecticut [Mr. EATON]. 

1\ir. 0' NEILL, of Missouri. I used only half a minute. Mr. TOWNSHEND. HnsthegentlemanfromMinnesota. [Mr. WASHBURN] anytime remaining? 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Missouri [Mr. O'NEILL] 

states that he used only half a minute of the time yielded to him. The 

Chair therefore recognizes the gentleman from Connecticut [Mr. EATON] 

for half a minute. 

1\Ir. EATON. One-half minute! I will take just a quarter of a 

kinute to tell my friend from Illinois [Mr. SPRINGER] that the champagne. which he drinks, which comes out of barrels [laughter], is not 

the kind consumed by the people in the countries now under discussion. • 

Now let me say one word to my good friend from Missouri [Mr. 

BuRNES], and let him ponucr upon it. There has never been any great 

public measure carried out between our country and other peoples ex- cept through the instrumentality of legations expressly authorized. 

Such matters are never intrusted to the regular minister abroad. I will 

nsk my good friend who is going to Austria [1\Ir. KASSON] whether 

if any great measure is to be consummated a special embassy or com- mission is. not always deemed necessary? 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. BARKSDALE. I shall vote -to retain: in the consular and diplomatic bill the clause to appropriate a sum for the employment of com- missioners to ascertain the best mode of securing more intimate and 

commercial relations between the United States and the Central and 

South American countries. We should liberalize our intercourse with 

those countries to promote the sale of American farm products and man- ufactures. Ordinarily I have voted to sustain the action of the con- ferees on the part of the House. I will not do so in this instance. I 

will vote for the motion from their position. . 

The South American countries produce many articles for which the 

climate of the United States is not suited, and the United States produce many articles for which those countries are not. adapted. The interests of both countries dictate that there should be a more liberal interchange of these commodities. Enlightened public policy would strike 

off the shackles that have prevented the development of this trade and 

the mutual enjoyment of its benefits. It is not a local question. The 

manufacturers of the East and of the South as well as the agriculturists of the West and the South are alike interested in the measure. I 

do not speak with an eye to Southern interests exclusively, though a Representative of a Southern constituency. I speak for the whole 

country. The sum proposed is insignificant compared to the benefits 

which it is believed will follow. The suggestion that a communication 

which a postage-stamp will carry would be sufficient to attain the end 

desired is preposterous. It is an economical but an exceedingly narrow view of the question. 

Scarcely less absurd is the suggestion that it can be a<JComplished by 

the consular agents of the Government already employed in those coun- tries by our Government. It is a great work, and to achieve it the 

services of experts and practical, broad-minded statesmen and competent diplomatists should be brought into requisition. I will cheerfully 

vote for the bill as it came from the Senate in this particular. 

The question being taken on the motion of Mr. WASHBURN that 

the House recede from its disagreement to the Senate amendments 

numbered 166 and 167, there were-ayes 82, noes 53. 

1\ir. HOLMAN. I call for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered. 

The question was taken; and there were-yeas 111, nays 76, not voting 137; as follows: 

Adams, G. E. Adams,J.J. Atkinson, 

Barksdale, 

Bayne, 

Belford, 

Boutelle, 

Brewer, F. B. Brewer, J. H. Broadhead, 

Brown, W.W. Brumm, 

Budd, 

Calkins, 

Campbell,·J. M . 

Cannon, 

Chalmers, 

Cullen, Cutcheon, D argan, Davis,G.R. Davis, R.T. D euster, Dingley, 

E aton, 

Ellis, 

Evans,I.N. 

Everhart, 

Ferrell, 

Findlay, 

YEAS-111. 

Funston, 

George, 

Glascock, 

Greenleaf, 

Guenther, 

Hancock, 

Hart, 

Hatch, H. H. Hepburn, 

~;itt,G.W. 

Hor~, 

Houseman, 

Howey, 

Hunt, 

James, 

Jeffords, 

Johnson, 

Kasson, 

Kean, 

Keifer, Kellogg, 

Laird, 

Libbey, 

Lyman, McCoid, 

1\:lcComss, 

McCormick, 

Miller, S. H. 

Milliken, 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6101 

Mitchell, 

Morrill, 

Muldrow, 

Nelson, 

Nutting, 

Oates, 

Ochiltree, 

O'Hara 

O'Neill; Charles 

O'Neill, J. J. Parker, 

Payne, 

Payson, 

.Alexander, 

Bagley, 

Bennett, 

Blount, 

Breckinridge, 

Buchanan, 

Burnes, 

Caldwell, 

Campbell, J. E. Carleton, 

Cassidy, 

Clay, 

Clements, 

Cox,W.R. 

Crisp, 

Culberson, D. B. Dibble, 

Dibrell, 

Dowd, 

Perkins, 

Phelps, 

Poland, 

Potter, 

Price, 

Ranney 

Ray,G.W. 

Robinson, J. S. 

Rockwell, 

Rosecrans, 

Rowell, 

Ryan, 

Seymour, 

Dunn, 

Follett, 

Forney, 

Garrison, 

Geddes, . Gibson, 

Graves, 

Green, 

Halsell, 

Hatch ~.H. 

Hempnill, 

Henley, 

Herbert, 

Hoblitzell, 

Holman, 

Jones, B. W. Jones,J.H. 

Jordan, 

Kleiner, 

Singleton, 

Skinner, C. R. Smalls, 

Smith, 

Spooner, 

Stephenson, 

Stewart, Charles 

Stewart,J. W. Stone, 

Strait, 

Struble, 

Sumner~,..C.A. 

Taylor, J.D. 

NAY8-76. 

Lanham, 

Lore, 

Lowry, 

Mcl\Iillin, 

Miller,J.F. 

Mills, 

Murray, 

Neece, 

Pierce, 

Peel, 

Pryor, 

Randall, 

Riggs, 

Rogers, J. H. Scales, 

Seney, 

Shelley, 

Springer 

Sumner, b. H. 

NOT VOTING-137. 

Aiken, Davidson, Jones,J.K. 

Anderson, Davis,L.H. Jones,J.T. 

Arnot, Dockery, Kelley, 

Ballentine, Dorsheimer, Ketcham, 

Barbour, Duncan, King, 

Barr, Dunham, Lacey, 

Beach, Eldredge, Lamb, 

Belmont, Elliott, Lawrence, 

Bingham, Ellwood, LeFevre, 

Bisbee, English, Lewis, 

Bla-ckburn, Ermentront, Long, 

Blanchard, Evins,J. H. Lovering, 

Bln.nd, Fiedler, McAdoo, 

Bowen, Finerty, Matson, 

Boyle, Foran, Maybury, 

Brainerd, Fyan, l\1illard, 

Breitung, Goff, Money, 

Browne, T. M. · Hammond, Morgan, 

Buckner, Hanback, Morrison, 

Burleigh, Hardeman, Morse, 

Cabell, Hardy, Moulton, 

Campbell, Felix Harmer, Muller, 

Candler, Haynes, Murphy, 

Chace, Henderson, D. B. Mutchler, 

Clardy, Henderson, T.J. Nicholls, 

Cobb, Hewitt, A. S. O'Ferrall, 

Collins, Hill Paige, 

Connolly, His~ock, Patton, 

Converse, Holmes, Peters, 

Cook, Holton, Pettibone, 

Cosgrove, Hooper, Post, 

Covington, Hopkins, Pusey, . Cox, S. S. Houk, Rankin, 

Culbertson, W. W. Hurd, Ray, Ossian 

Curtin, Hutchins, Reagan, 

Thomas, 

Tillman, 

Valentine, 

Wakefield, 

Washburn. 

Weaver, 

White, J.D. White, Milo Whiting '· Winans, 'E. B. Winans, John Yaple. 

Taylor, J. M. 

Thompson, 

Townshend, 

Turner, H. G. Turner, Oscar Van Alstyne, 

Vance, 

VanEaton, 

Wallace, 

Warner, Richard Wellborn, 

Weller, 

Williams, 

Wilson, W.L. Wise, G. D. Wolford, 

Wood, 

Woodward, 

York. 

Reed, 

Reese, 

Rice, 

Robertson, 

Robinson, W. E. Rogers, W. F. Russell, 

Shaw, 

Skinner, T. G. 

Slocum, 

Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Steele, 

Stevens, 

Stockslager, 

Storm, 

Talbott 

Taylor, E. B. Throckmorton, 

Tucker, 

Tully, 

Wadsworth, 

Wait, 

Ward, 

Warner,A.J. 

Wemple, 

Wilkins, 

Willis, 

Wilson, James Wise,J.S. 

Worthingon, 

Young. 

So the motion of Mr. WASHBURN, that the House recede from its 

disagreement and agree to Senate amendments numbered 166 and 167, was agreed to. 

The following additional pairs were announced: 

Mr. WEMPLE with Mr. PETERS, until further notice. 

Mr. MURPHY with Mr. HEPBURN, on all political questions, indefinitely, reserving the right to vote to make a quorum; Mr. HEPBURN 

to determine wha~ are political questions. 

Mr. PAYNE with Mr. ELDREDGE, until further notice. 

The result of the vote was announced as above stated. 

Mr. WASHBURN moved to reconsider the vote just taken; and also 

moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Mr. OCHILTRE.E asked and obtained leave to print remarks in the 

RECORD upon the pending bill. 

.Mr. TOWNSHEND. I ask that all other members, if they desire 

it, may have the same privilege. 

Mr. VALENTINE. I object to that. . Mr. TOWNSHEND. Then I ask leave to extend in print theremarks I have made on this question. 

Mr. V ALENTil~E. It is understood that the remarks must be con- fined to this subject. 

The SPEAKER. That is the understanding. 

There being no objection, the leave requested by Mr. TOWNSHEND was granted. . 

Mr. BURNES. In order to save time I move that the House ask a further conference with the Senate on amendment numbered 158. 

.Mr. VALENTINE. How many amendment are there undisposed of? 

The SPEAKER. Only this one. 

The motion of :Mr. BURNES was agreed to; and the Speaker announcerl as conferees on the part of the House l\Ir. BURNES, lli. TOW:KSHKL"'fD, 

and lli. WASHBURN. 

1\iANAGEMENT OF SOLDIERS' HO"!\IES. 

Mr. ROSECRANS. I ask unanimous consent to report from the 

Committee on Military Affairs for immediate consideration the resolution which I send to the desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, That the resolution of this House directing the Military Committee t.o examine into the plan, practical workings, and management of the national homes for disabled volunteers, and to examine such homes as it may deemfnec- essary by subcommittee, and providing that all necessary expenses be paid out of the contingent fund of the House, pa.ssed on the 26th of May, 1884, be, and the same is hereby, amended by adding the following, to wit: "The Clerk of the House, upon the order of the chairman of the Military Committee, shall ad- vance to the Sergeant-at-Arms, in amounts not exceeding $1,000 at a time, such sums as may be required to meet the current expenses of clerk-hire, travel, &c.; said amount to be promptly accounted for by proper vouchers duly certified by said chairman." 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the present consideration of 

this resolution? 

Mr. VALENTINE. .AB I understand, this refers to a resolution 

heretofore adopted. 

The SPEAKER. The House adopted heretofore a resolution providing for this investigation, but failed to authorize the Clerk of the 

House to furnish money in advance to the Sergeant-at-Arms to defray 

the expenses. The present resolution is designed to remedy that defect. · There being no objection, the resolution was considered and adopted. 

Mr. ROSECRANS moved to reconsider the vote by which the reso- lution was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

1\ir. TOWNSHEND. I move to proceed to business on the Speaker's ·table. [Cries of" Regular order!"] 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is the motion of the gentleman 

from Indiana to take a recess until9o'clock this evening. 

Mr. HOLMAN. The conference report on the fortification bill em- braces but a single item, and it can be delayed until this evening without inconvenience. 

l\1r. WHITE, of Kentucky. Let us adjourn. 'I demand a division. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 100, noes 17. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. No quorum. [Cries of "Oh! "] I 

withdraw the point of no quorum, but I believe we will not do anything this evening. 

The SPEAKER. The point of no quorum having been withdrawn, 

the motion was agreed to. 

Accordingly (at 5 o'clock and 10 minutes p.m.) the House took a recess until9 o'clock p. m. 

AFTER· RECESS. 

At 9 o'clock p.m. the House resumed its session. 

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

By unanimous consent, leave of absence was granted in the following cases: 

To Mr. ELDREDGE, on account of sickness in his family. 

To Mr. RANKIN, for the remainder of the session, on account of important business. 

CICERO H. DRAKE. 

On motion ofMr. GEDDES, by unanimous consent leave was granted 

for the withdrawal from the files of the House of the papers in the case of Cicero H. Drake, no adverse report having been made thereon. 

RICHARD D. BREWER. 

On motion of Mr. GEDDES, by unanimous consent leave was granted 

for the withdrawal from the files oNhe House of the papers in the case of Richard D. Brewer for reference to the Secretary of State. 

JOHN N. QUACKENBUSH. 

Mr. JORDAN. I move by unanimous consent to take from the 

Speaker's table the bill (S. 28) to confirm the status of John N. Quackenbush as a commander in the United States Navy for present consideration. 

The bill was read, as follows: 

Be it enacted, &c., That the President of the United States be, and he hereby is, authorized to nominate and, with the advice and consent of the Senate, appoint the said John N. Quackenbu h a commander in the Navy of the United States, 

vice George U. Morris retired, to take rank and position on the list of such commanders from and after the date of the retirement of Morris, namely, Octo- ber 21, 1874, and next after the name of Commander William T. Sampson, the appointment to be to fill the vacancy, still unfilled, caused by the retirement of Morris, the ri~ht to fill which is unquestioned under the decision in the case of Charles M. Blake vs. The United States (13 Otto, 227}, and the right to reissue the original commission of Commander Quackenbush might be questionable: 

Provided, That such appointment shall not entitle the said John N. Quacken- bush to compensation during the time that intervened between the appoint- ment ofW. S. Schley and thesubseqnentretirementofMorris: Pr~idedfurther, 

That after such reappointment the said John N. Quackenbush shall be entitled (with the exception provided for above, namely, that no compensation be re- ceived for the few months that intervened between the issuing of the commis- sion t.o Schley and the retirement of MorriR) to compensation from the date of his original commission to the present time, as by him duly received up to the time of the raising of a question as to his status in consequence of t.he Supreme Court decision in the case of Blake above referred to ; and he having been borne on the rolls of the Navy until August 1,1883, and on waiting orders until said date, he shall receive whatever arrears of salary have accrued since the 1st day of April, A. D. 1881, that being the date on which further payment of his salary was deferred until his s~atus should be finally decided. 
6102 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. J ULY 5, 

Mr JORDAN "?rir Speaker I ask unanimous consent to take Sen- 1 day of June, the time stated in the letter-supposing, of course, that the power : · h. S eak ', tabl f' •ts · di te "d ti to mitigate might then have been exerted by the President. nte bill No. 28 from t e P er S e. or 1 1mme a COnsl era on "This nomination, following so closely on the letter of dismissal written by 

and passage, and I am sure the House will agree to my request and pass the Secretary of the Navy, is apparent.ly inconsistent with the sub equentstatethe bill if I can uet them to !rive me their attention for a few minutes. ment by him that the entence was mitigated by him at the time mentioned. · e e · b t 1 "cal · tak Th bill h It a sumes, indeed, the complete execution of the sentence-that the officer The bill seeks to correct_a senous U C en. IDlS e.. e as was thereby dismis ed, and is an official act ba ed on this a sumption. But it 

been reported favorably 1n the Senate and ill the Hou e by the Naval did not of itself affect or change the previous or then existing tatus of such 

Committees without a dissentinu vote. The relief sought bv the bill officer. T.hus .• bad the nomination !=>een made af~r the approval of t~e send d b P e.d t f th U "t d s+~tes ws ta tence Of d1 mlSSal, but before anythmg WaS done In executiOn thereof, It COUld has been recommen e _Y ~ res1 en 0 e n1 ;e lJiA1 ' a ecre_ ry hardly be considered a constituting a, sufficient execution of that sentence. 

of the Navy, and the opnnon of the AttorJ?-ey~Genera.I has been gt ven "So tJ;le confirmatio~ of the nomination, and the i ue of a commission therein its favor. And there is no person or officml ill any department of the upon, d1d not n.ece sarily produce any alterat~on of the statu!! of ~be officer un- . h h" t to •t f1 I kn der entence. "' * * It maybe that the "VIce" In the nommahon was made Government wh? has a ng t to Oo,-:)ec 1 so ar as 0~. by inadvertence, and, in view of the tatement just adverted to, it can not be The facts are srmply that J obn N. Quackenbush was appoillteda com- regarded otherwise than as thus originated." 

mander in the Navy of the United States in re!mlar course of promo- Following t.his ad vic~ of the Attorney-General, C<;>mmander Quac~enbusb J;tas · · d b et- t" 1 · F b served out hiS probation under order of the President, the duratiOn of whJch twn on May 25, 1871 . .He _was trie Y a ?OUr mar Ia ill e rnary, expired on the 9th day of June, 1880, at which time he was restored to waiting1874 and sentenced to d1siD1Ssal. The Pres1dent approved the sentence orders pay, under which be now i . The recent decision and judgment of the 

on J~e 5 1874 On June 9 Commander Qll!lckenbush was notified SupremeCourtoftheUnitedStatesinthecaseofCbarleslll.Blaket·s.TbeUnited ' · b 1 f h f1 ts d th t fr th t States (13 Otto, 227) makes que tionable the right of aid Quackenbu h to bold byt.he Secretary of the Navy Y et~r 0 t ese ac '~ a om a said office, not byrea on oftheorderofdismissal,firsterroneouslypromulgated 

date he would cease to be an officer 1n the Navy. The sentence was a and immediately after~rd withdrawn, because, according to the opinion of 

very harsh one not satisi:-wtory to the President althouuh he had ap- the Attox:ney-q-en~r~l, the letter of the Sec!etary of the Ne. vy~ on the t?. of :pe- . ' .) 4 h S ta ' f th No t t cember, m whwh It IS stated that the Pre 1dent had as en tea to the mitigat10n proved 1t; and on June L-, 1~7 .' t ~ ecre ry 0 e avy wro e 0 of the sentence on the 9th day of June, is accepted as evidence of the highest 

Commander Quackenbush notifYillg him that the sentence of the court- order oftbefact referred to therein, but by reason of the fact that the nominamartial was on the 9th day of June 1874 mitigated to suspension from ti~n of W. !?· S<:hle.Y to . be commander was made "vice Qua<:kenbush, d~s- .r.' · ' h · to d t miSsed "whwh,ifg~venltsfullforceasaponafideactofthePresident,takenm rank and duty on furlough-pay ~or SlX years, t e suspensiOn a e connection with the subsequent confirmation of the same by the Senate, accordfrom date. ing to the decision of the Supreme Court, operate to super ede Quackenbush, 

On the lOth day of June 1874 the President nominated W. S. Schley who. thereupon ceased to I?e an officer in ~he ~avy. . " · ' ' h di · d , Th" · t" W1th re pect to the making of the nommation of W. S. Schley m the manner to be commander, VIce Quackenbus , smlSSe · lS nomma lOU it was. Hon. George M. Robeson in a letter to the Presidebt dated February 16 was confirmed. The mistake, purely clerical, in using the words ''vice 1882, ~ys: ' ' 

Quackenbush dismissed '' when the dismissal hn.~ been set aside and "The ~omination of Schley • vice Quackenbush' w~nt thr<;>ugh in some in com- ' ' difJi Th" · tm t f S hl prebens1ble manner, and when brought to my attentiOn, as 1t made an excess of annulled, caused the whole culty. 1S appoill en O C ey number3, I ordered no nomination to be made for the position shortly after 

made an exce of the number of commanders allowed by law. The vacated by the retirement of Morris, which reduced the number of commanders 

?'ttention of the Secretary of the Treasury was called to the matter, and to Ith~l~g~ =~~bered that Mr. Robe on was Secretary of the N~vy at the 

ill order to protect the Government and Commander Quackenb_ush he time the matters mentioned in his letter took place. · 

decided that no nomin:.ttion should be made to the next succeeding va- General Grant, in a letter to the President, dated February 10, 1882, says : 

caney and none has been made and the place remains now vacant as "Th~ ca .e of q<>mmander.J. N. Quackenbush, United ~tates ~avy, seLtenc~d • ' < • • ' d' to be dismissed m 1874, has just been called to my attention, with the hardship 1t has been ever Sillce the retrrement of George W. Morse, comman e-:. attending his case, by reason of inadvertency in sending in the nomination of 

It is considered important that this mistake should be corrected. ThlS ~is succes or a,f~er h!B sentence had been C<?mmuted. The matter of nominabill accomplishes the purpose desired and fills the place which bas been bon~ or promot10n;s m the Army and Nav:Y Is. regulated by Jaw, so tJ;la.t the Ex- . . . . . ' ecut1ve scarcely thmks to look at thenommation when put before hun, suppos- held vacant ill order that tblS act of JU bee nnght be done. ing of course they are all to fill vacancies. In this way it seems Commander 

I submit with this statement the report of the House Committee, Quackenbushwassuspended,an~~ow!indshimselfindangerofueingoutofthe 

made byHon GEORGE D. WISE from the Naval Committee. It makes Nary by reason ofthe.recentdeciSion m an~ther case. I. remember the case of · · · · f 1-.~~ bill Commander Qua~kenbusb, but not the details of my act10n. I have no doubt the record complete and JUStifies and requrres the pass:.tge 0 t.l.l.U:i : however, thatHon. George l\1. Robe on, then Secretary of the Navy, knows and 

The Committee on Naval Affairs, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. 5758) to confirm the status of John N. Quackenbush, a commander in the nited States Navy, having had the same under consideration, report as follows:. John N. Quackenbush was, upon the 25th day of 1\lay, 1871, duly appomted and commis3ioned by the President of the United States, by and with tqeadvice and consent of the enate, a commander in the Navy of the United States, in regular course of promotion.fro!ll the rank of lieutenant-commander . . H~ was tried by a naval court-martml m February, 1874, and entenced to diSmiSsal. The record show that this sentence wa approved by the President on the 5th day of June, 1 74. On the 9th day of June, 1874, the Secretary of the Navy addressed a letter to Commander Quuckenbu h, at Boston, informing him of the sentence of the com-t-martial and of its approval by the Pre ident, and stating that from that date (9th June) he would" cea e to be an officer in the Navy." On 1~th June 1874 the Secretary of the Navy aga,in addre ed a letter to Com- mander Q uackcubu~h, at Boston, asking him to return the order dismissing him from the Navy; and the latter returned the order to the Secretary of the Navy, under cover of a letter of the 15th of June, 1874. · On the Stl,l day of December, 1874, the Secretary of the Navy again addre sed a Jetter o Commander Quackenbush, at Boston, s~t~ng that the senteD;ce of the -court-martial ·was on the 9th day of .June, 1874, mitigated to suspensiOn from rank and duty orl furlough pay, for six years, the suspension to date from that day And the'Fourth Auditor was so notified the same day. 0~ the lOth day of June, 1874, the Presi~ent nominated to ~he. Senate W: S. Schley to be commander in the Navy," VICe Quackenbush, disnnssed," whwh nomination was confirmed by the Senate on the 12th day of J une,l874. It appears that this nomination was inadvertently ma-de" vice Quackenbush, dismissed " as there had been no intention on the part of the President to dis- miss Quadkenbush. A retention of both Schley and Quackenbush upon the list made an excess of one over the legal number of commanders. The Secretary of the Navy as soon as this fact was called to his attention, directed that no nomi- nation sb~uld be made to the next succeeding va-cancy, which recommendation was complied with no appointment being then made, or having subsequent~y 

been made, to the position made vacant by the retirement?fGeo.rge W.l\I~rrJS, the only result of the error havi:Jg been that Schley received his promotiOn a. few weeks earlier than would otherwise have been the case. . . The President referred the matter to the Attorney-General for an opm1on. The Attorney-General rendered his opinion on t he 16th day ofl\1arch,l878 (15 

Op., 466), in which he says: . . . . . "Presuming that the fir t branch of your mqmry- that part of 1t re~a.tmg: to t he admissibility of • parol proof' that the President assented to the m1tJgatJOn of the sentence on the 9th of June-is propounded with reference solely to the admissibility of the letter of the _Secretary of !he NavY: of the 8th of December as evidence of the fact just mentiOned, I su1;1m1t that this letter can !lOt be pr~perly viewed in the light of mere pax:ol evidence. of such fa~t .. It IS al! ~ffiCJal 

document, pei·taining to a matter wh1ch ~ecessanlycru:J?-e wt~hin the officm~ ob- servation of" the Secretary, and regar~ed sunJ?lY as such, IS eJ?-tltled to be received as at lea t prima facie proof of what IS tberem stated touchmg that matter; b~t 

being moreover a.n act which, in contemplation of law, proceeds from the Presi- dent himself it ~ust be deemed to be evidence of the very highest order of the particular fadt a.bove referred to. Tb~rections of the President r~specting the mitigation of a com·t-martialsentence may be, and frequently are, given ore tenus, and left to be formally made known and carried out through .the hea~ of the ap- propriate Department. ' Vben this is the c.ase the. order or mstruct10ns of ~he 

latter issued in discharge ofthatduty, constit.utepnma.ry and perhaps conclusive evide~ce of what the directions of the President were. "Agreeably to these views, the let~er of the Secr etary of the Navy of ~he . th of December must be considered sat1sfactor! p r oof, ~?t only of t_he DlltigatJOn o f the sentence by the Pre ident, but that It was nnt1gated by brm on the 9th 

remembers all about it. I do know, however, the intention was not to put him out of the service, and I now recommend his nomination to the vacancy which was kept open for him from the time of the first vacancy after the promotion of Schley. 

"The fact that executive action was delayed so long in the case of Com- mander Quackenbush at the request of Samuel Howe shows quite conclusively that the approval of the entence and mitigation was done at one and the same time. 1\Iy decision was probably given verbally to the Secretary, and a, nus- take in the record has been made by a clerk." With respect to the latt-er question ~lr. Robeson, in the letter already quoted from, says: "The action of approval and of mitigation was at one and the same time, whatever the records in the Department may appear to show. The direction to me being verbal, and a letter being sent at once by me to Commander Quackenbush, and afterward, in December, the letter promulgating the finding and mitigation, I may have rested content with my action, and neglected to order or to make full indorsement of the records." It is highly probable that the draught of the formal approval of the sentence of dismissal, which appears upon the record of the court-martial in the hand- writing of some one else other than the President, was made on the 5th day of June, but was not actually signed by the President till on the 9th day of June. The bill under consideration authorizes the President to nominate, and, with the advice and consent of the Senate, to appoint, the said John ·N. Qua{)kenbush commander in the United States Navy, vice George U. l\Iorris, retired, to take rank and position on the list of such commanders from and after the date of the retirement of ~Iorris, namely, October 21, 1874, and next after the name of Com- mander W. P. Samp on; the appointment to be to fill the vacancy still unfilled, caused by the retirement of Morris, the right to fill which is unquestioned under the above decision, and the right to reissue the original commission of Com- mander Quackenbush might be questionable, with the provision that such ap- poin tment shall not en title the said John N. Quackenbush to compensation dur- ing the time that intervened between the appointment of Schley and the subse- quentretirementofl\Iorris; and with thefurtherprovision that after such reap- pointmentthe said John N. Quackenbu h shall be entitled (with the exception 

provided a.bove, namely, that no compensation shall be received for the few months that intervened between the issuing of the commission to Schley and the retirement of Morris) to compensation from the date of his original commission to the present time, as by him duly received up to the time of the raising of the ques- tion as t o his status, in consequence of the Supreme Court decision in the ca e of Blake above referred to; and he having been all this time borne on the rolls of the Navy and on waiting orders, he shall receive whatever arrears of Ealary have accrued since the 1st day of April,l881, that being the date on which fur- ther payment of his salary was deferred until his status should be finally de- cided. 

There appears to be no doubt of the fact that it was not the intention of the President to dismiss Commander Quackenbush from the Navy, either by the approval of the sentence of the court-martial o r the nomination of Schley to be commander. Quackenbush has, as before stated, served out his probation un- der the order of the President, and it would be a hardship for him now not to be retained in the Navy. The committee therefore report the bill back with a favorable recommendation. 

There was no objection, and the bill w~ taken up, read a first and sec- ond time, ordered to a third reading, read the third time, and passed. Mr. JORDAN moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed; and also moved that t he motion to reconsider be laid on th e table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 
J_884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6103 

ENROLLED BII.LS AND JOINT RESOLUTIONS SIGNED. 

Mr. NEECE from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

they had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles; 

when the Speaker signed the same: 

A bill (H. R. 503) granting a pension to H~m C. Henderson; 

A bill (H. R. 1970l for t~e relief of~· Ali?e T. Sherwood; 

A bill (H. R. 2245 gran~g a pe~1on to Eliza A. Shea~y; and 

A bill (H. R. 2070 granting a pensiOn to Decatur Hamlin. 

Mr. PERKINS . from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

they had examined and found truly enrolled bills and a joint resolution 

of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: 

A bill (H. R. 3321) granting :1 pension to Michael Shields; 

.A bill (H. R. 3337) authorizing the inspection of the boiler of the 

steamship Kent; 

.A bill (H. R. 4694) granting a pension to James Clark; 

.A bill (H. R. 3979) granting an increase of pension to Mary Anna 

Egan; 

.A bill H. R. 4254) granting a pension to James Aaron; 

A bill H. R. 5 9) granting a pension to Alonzo Cooper; 

.A bill H. R. 6589) for the relief of Asa Dye; 

.A bill H. R. 3493) granting a pension to Ann Hunter; . 

A bill H. R. 6750) to amend paragraph 7 . of section 2527 of the 

Revised Statutes; 

A bill !H. R. 5544) for the relief of Laura J. Goddard; 

A bill H. R. 6677) to increase the pension of William Irving; ' 

A bill H. R. 44!!c12) for the relief of ~rs. Pauline~· Milliken; and 

Joint resolution (H. Res. 17) authonzmg the appomtment and retirement of Samuel Kramer as' a chaplain in the Navy of the United 

States. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. HEWITT of Alabama, l\1r. PRICE, and l\1r. COLLINS rose to ask 

unanimous consent. 

Mr. DUNN demanded the regular order of business. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I now ask unanimous consent to submit a report 

from the Committee on Expenditures in the Department of Justice with 

reference to the investigation before that committee, and to ask--

The SPEAKER. The Chair can not entertain the request for unanimous consent when the demand for the regular order is pending. 

l\1r. SPRINGER. I understand thatitisnotinsisted upon as against 

this proposition. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair asked the gentleman the question a 

moment since, and was informed by him that he declined to withdraw 

the demand. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Who has demanded the regular order? 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Arkansas. . . . 1\Ir. SPRINGER. He said he would not demand It as agamst this. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. It 'would be renewed, if withdrawn, by 

two or three or twenty-five or thirty others. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I call up the Mexican pension bill. 

Mr. SPRINGER. That has been called up so often I thought perhaps the House might like to have something else called up. [Laughter.] 

The SPEAKER. The question is on the demand for the previous 

question made by the gentleman from Illinois on his motion to concur 

in the Senate amendment. · 

1\:Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. I make the point of order that the 

question is on my motion to take up the special order. .A yea-and-nay 

vote was taken on that motion, which developed the fact that no quorum 

was present. 

l\1r. TOWNSHEND. That was disposed of by the House. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from .Alabama is correct; no 

quo101m voted upon the motion submitted by him. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. There was a yea-and-nay vote, but no 

quorum was present. 

The SPEAKER. The question is now, Will the Honse proceed to the 

consideration of the special order called up by the gentleman from 

Alabama? upon which the yeas and nays were ordered, and the Clerk 

will call the roll 

The question was taken; and there were--yeas 38, nays 101, not 

voting 1 5; as follows: 

Alexander, 

Barksdale, 

Blanchard, 

Broadhead, 

Buchanan, 

Caldwell, 

Cassidy, 

Clay, 

Clements, 

Cosgrove, 

.Adams, G. E. 

Adams, J. J. 

.Atkinson, 

Bagley, 

Bayne, 

Brewer, F. B. 

Browne, T.l\1. Brown,W.W. 

Budd, 

YE.AS-38. 

Cox,W.R . . Dargan, 

Dibble, 

Garrison, 

Gib on, Graves, 

Halsell, 

Hatch,W.H. 

Houseman, 

Hunt, 

Kleiner, 

Lyman, 

l\Iaybury, 

Mitchell, 

Ochiltree, 

O'Neill,J.J. 

Pierce, 

Taylor, J.M. 

Tillman, 

Tucker, 

N.AY8-101. 

Burnes, 

Carleton, 

Chalmers, 

Collins, 

Connolly, 

Culbertson, W. W. Cullen, 

Cutcheon, 

Davis,G.R. 

Davis,R.T. 

Deuster, 

Evans,I.N. 

Everhart, 

Ferrell, 

Follett, 

Foran, 

Glascock, 

Goff, 

Turner, H. G. 

Turner, Oscar 

Vance, 

Warner, Richard 

Willis, 

Wolford, 

Wood, 

York. 

Greenleaf, 

Guenther, 

Hart, 

Hatch, H. H. 

Hemphill, 

Henderson, T. J. 

Henley, 

Hepburn, 

Hoblitzell, 

Howey, 

James, 

Jeftords, 

Johnson, 

Jones,B.W. 

Ka on, Kean, 

Keifer, 

Lacey, 

Lawrence, 

LeFevre, 

Libbey, 

Lore, 

Lovering, 

Lowry, 

McComas, 

McCormick, 

Millard, 

Miller, S. H. 

Morrill, 

Neece, 

Nelson, 

O'Hant, 

Payne, 

Payson, 

Peters, 

Price, 

Ranney, 

Ray,G.W. 

Ray, Ossian 

Rockwell, 

Rosecrans, 

Rowell, 

Seney, 

Seymour, 

Skinner, C. R. 

Smalls, 

Spooner, 

Springer, 

teele, 

Stephenson, 

Stewart, J. W. Str~t.it, 

Struble, 

Sumner, C. A. 

Sumner, D. H. 

Taylor, J.D. 

Thomas, 

Town bend, Valentine, 

Van Alstyne, 

NOT VOTING-185. 

.Aiken, Dorsheimer, Jones, J. T . 

Anderson, Dowd, Jordan, Arnot, Duncan, Kelley, Ballentine, Dunham, Kellogg, Barbour, Dunn, Ketcham, Barr, Eaton, King, Beach, Eldredge, Laird, Belford, Elliott, Lamb, Belmont, Ellis Lanham, Bennett, Ellw~od, Lewi , Bingham, English, Long1 Bisbee, Ermentrout, 1\.IcAaoo, Blackburn, Evins,J.H. 1\IcCoid, Bland, Fiedler, 1\Icl\Iillin, Blount, Findlay, Matson, Boutelle, Finerty, 1\.Iiller,J. F. 

Bowen, Forney, ~ills!lliken, Boyle, Funston, , Brainerd, Fyan, l\.Ioney, Breckinridge, Geddes, l\Iorgan, Breitung, George, Morrison, Brewer, J. H. Green, Morse, Brumm, Hammond, 1\Ioultori, Buckner, Hanback, Muldrow, Burleigh, Hancock, 1\Iuller, Cabell, Hardeman, Murphy, Calkins, Hardy, 1\Iurray, Campbell, Felix Harmer, 1\Iutchler, Campbell, J. E. Raynes, Nicholls, Campbeli,J.M. Henderson,D.B. Nutting, Candler, Herbert, Oates, Cannon, Hewitt, A. S. 0' Ferrall, Chace, Hewitt, G. W. O'Neill, Charles 

Clardy, Hill, Paige, Cobb, Hiscock, Parker, Converse, Hitt Patton, Cook, Hol!han, Peel, Covington, Holmes, Perkins, Cox., S. S. Holton, Pettibone, Cri p, Hooper, Phelps, Culberson, D. B. Hopkins, Poland, Curtin, Horr, Post, Davidson, Houk, Potter, Davis, L. H. Hurd, Pryor, Dibrell, Hutchins, Pusey, Dingley, Jones, J. H. Randall, Dockery, Jones,J.K. Rankin, 

Wadsworth, 

Wait, 

Wallace, 

Washburn, 

'Veaver, 

Weller, 

White,l\filo 

Whiting, 

Wilson, James 

Wilson, W.L. 

Winans, E. B. 

Winans, John 

Woodward, 

Yaple. 

Reagan, 

R~ed, 

Reese, 

Rice, 

Riggs, 

Robertson, 

Robinson, J. S. 

Robinson, W. E. 

Rogers, J. H. 

Rogers, W . .F. Russell, 

Ryan, Scales, 

Shaw, 

Shelley, Singleton, 

Skinner, T. G. 

Slocum, 

Smith, 

Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Stevens, 

Stewart, Charles 

Stockslager, 

Stone, 

Storm, 

Talbott, 

Taylor, E. B. 

Thompson, 

Throckmorton, 

Tully, 

VanEaton, 

. Wakefield, 

Ward, 

Warner, A. J. 

Wellborn, 

Wemple, 

White, J.D. 

Wilkins, 

Williams, 

Wise, G. D. Wise,J.S. 

Worthington, 

Young. 

So (no quorum having voted) the mot~on was ~ot agreed~· 

Mr. DAVIS, of Illinois. I move to dispense With the reading of the 

names. Mr. V .AN EATON. I object. 

The Clerk recapitulated the names of those voting. 

The following additional pairs were announced:. 

1\fr. PARKER with Mr. COSGROVE, on all questions, from 5 o'clock 

J nly 5, 1884, until the close of the present sessi~n. 

Mr. MoRRILL with 1\ir. GR.A VES, on all questiOns, except the Mexican pension bill, until further notice. 

Mr. HANCOCK with Mr. CANNON, on all questions for the present. 

The result of the vote was then announced as above recorded. 

The SPEAKER. No quorum has voted, and the motion is not dis-

~ed~ . Mr. WOLFORD. I ask unanimous consent to go into Committee 

of the Whole to take up pension bills of the House amended by the 

Senate with a view to putting them upon their passage. 

1\:Ir. TOWNSHEND. I have no objection to that. · 

The SPEAKER. That can not be done in the absence of a quorum. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Then I move a call of the House. 

The motion was agreed to. · The Clerk proceeded to call the roll, when the following members · 

failed to answer to their names: 

Aiken, 

Andersqn, 

Arnot, 

Barbour, 

Barr, 

Beach, 

Belford, 

Belmont 

Bingham, 

Bisbee, 

Bland, 

Bowen, 

Boyle, - Brainerd, 

Breitung, 

Brewer, J. H. 

Brumm,· 

Buckner, 

Burleigh, 

Cabell, 

Calkins, 

Campbell, Felix 

Campbell, J. E. 

Candler, 

Cannon, 

Chace, 

Clardy, 

Cobb, 

Con~erse, 

Cook, 

Covington, 

Cox, S.S. 

Cox, W.R. 

Curtin, 

Davidson, 

Davis,L. H. 

Dingley, 

Dockery, 

Dorsheimer, 

Dowd, 

Duncan, 

Dunham, 

Eldredge, 

Elliott, 

Ellwood, 

Ermentrout, 

Evins,J. H. 

Fiedler, 

Findlay, 

Finerty, 

Fyan, 

Geddes, 

George, 

Hammond, 

Hanback, 

Hancock, 

Hardeman, 

Hardy, 

Harmer, 

Haynes, 

Henderson, D. B. 

Hewitt, A. S. 

Hill 

Hol:nan, 

Holton, 

Hooper, 

Hopkins, 

Horr, 
6104 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. J ULY 5, 

Houk:, Margan, Rankin, Stockslager, Mr. STEELE. I make the point of order that the gentleman who 

Hunt, Morrison, Rea.ga.n, Stone, objected did not rise in his seat. 

~~r:hlns ~i~~~~n, :f!~· ~~b~t't, Mr. BLOUNT (rising). I conform to the gentleman's request by 

Jones, J. k. Muller, Riggs, Taylor, E. B. now rising; but on the suggestion of the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. 

Jones, J T. Murphy, Robertson, Throckmorton, HEWITT] I do not insist on the objection. Kelley, Kellogg, 1\Iurra.y, Mutchler, Robinson, J. s. Tully, Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I do not think the gentleman from In- Rogers, W.F. Wakefield, 

King, Nicholls, Russell, Ward, diana will abuse the privilege granted him by the House. Laird, O'Ferrall, Ryan, Warner, A. J. Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. We have been struggling for now three 

Lewis, Lamb, Ppaige, SS~les, WWeilkmple, days and have not as yet r<>ached the consideration of a single amend- arker, uuw, ms, '~-' 

1\IcAdoo, Patton, Skinner, T. G. WisehJ. S. ment on this House bill. 

McCoid, Peel, Slocum, · Wort ington, Mr. TOWNSHEND. Oh, yes; wehaveconcurred in severalamend- 1\IcMillin, Pettibone, Smith, Young. Matson, Poland, Snyder, ments. 

1\Iilliken, Post, Spriggs, Mr. BROW~TE, of Indiana.' I mean, if the gentleman will underMoney, Pryor, Stevens, stand me, that for three days we have been attempting to consider one 

The SPEAKER. On this call 187 members have answered to their amendment to this bill, but have not yet succeeded in coming to a connames. elusion on it orevenreaehing the considerationofa single amendment. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I move to dispense with further proceedings Mr. TOWNSHEND. Oh, yes; we have concurred in several amendunder the call. ments. 

The motion was agreed to. Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. . The gentleman will understand me. Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I call for the regular order. , We reached the sixth amendment three days ago and have been strugMr. WOLFORD. I ask the gentleman to withhold that call for a gling to consider that sixth amendment for three days, and have not 

moment that I may ask unanimous consent to take up some pension yet succeeded in doing it. Now, when we have passed this, there are 

bills that have been passed by this House and amended by the Sen- still :fifteen other amendments to be considered. If it were possible to 

ate and sent back here. I make that request with a view of p~tting consider these the bill then, under the very proper rulingoftheChair, 

them on their passage at this time. goes to the Calendar of the Committee of the Whole House on the state 

Several members called fo.r the regular order. of the Union and goes to the foot of that Calendar,· and there are four 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I think if the proposition of the gentleman hundred and eleven bilJs before it. The Clerk and myself counted 

from Kentucky is understood there will be no objection to it. them this afternoon. 

The SPEAKER The regular order is demanded. Now, under the rule, before we can reach the bill when it has passed -1\fr. STEELE. We did not hear the request of the gentleman from to that Calendar, we must succeed upon a motion to go into the ComKentucky. mittee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. We may be an- The SPEAKER. The Chair will state it. tagonized by tho e who oppose the bill, as they have antagonized the 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I have no desire to demand the regu- consideration of the ame:Qdments by breaking a quorum and the other 

lar order in oppo ition to the request of my colleague. methods to which parliamentarians resort, and it will be impossible 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will state the request of the gentleman for us to go into Committee of the Whole House. But suppo ewe reach 

from Kentucky. He asks that by unanimous consent the House take it, then under the rules the bills on the Calendar are to be ta,ken up in 

up from the Speaker's table for present consideration House pension their order. When a bill is taken up we may object to its considerabills with Senate amendments. tion. Then the committee must rise and we go back into the House; :Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. That is all right. and then the question before the House is: shall the House consider 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? the particular bill? And again resortmaybe had to these parliamentMr. MILL . I desire to ask-- ary tactics to defeat or delay the consideration of the question; and I 

The SPEAKER. The Chair hears no objection. know the gentlemen intend to resort to them. I do not say that to 

Mr. MILLS. IwasaddressingtheChair,_butitseemedimpossiblefor complain oftheir a-ction. I say they may resort to these tactics; and 

me to get the ear of the Chair. _ if they do, we can not reach the consideration of this bill till next DeThe SPEAKER The Chair did not hear the gentleman on account cember; if we should continue in session from now till then we can 

of the noise on the floor. not reach it at all. 

l\Ir. MILLS. I wanted to know, reserving the right to object, if These rules, which were arranged apparently in some kind of circumthe special privilege granted to these pension bills was intende4 to locution office, absolutely prevent legislation when men are in earnest 

be granted to any other reports; or if it is understood when they are to ·prevent it by making use of the rules. The question, then, is this: 

disposed of we are going back again to the Mexican pension bill? Or we find ourselves in this situation; the record is made up; gentlemen 

do we leave this Mexican pension bill aUogether? who oppose this legislation are ready to stand by whattheyhave done; 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Not at all. We only leave the Mexi- and on the other hand we who favor it are ready to stand by the record 

can pension bill to take up special pension cases. we have made. We are ready to go to the country upon that record. 

Mr. MILLS. Then I object. Now the question presents itself, why continue this utterly useless 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Texas states he was on his struggle longer? There are other measures here which ought to be 

feet intending to object, if his question was not answered satisfactorily. considered and passed if Congress is to adjourn within the next twentyThe Chair entertains his objection, four or thirty-six hours, as many hope. If this Mexican war pension 

CONSULAR AND DIPLOMATIC APPROPRIATION BILL. bill could be considered and 'passed within reasonable time I would stay 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will submit to the House an order in here and insist upon its passage. But it can not be; it is impossible to 

d h f bill pass it. There is not a gP.ntleman on the floor who does not know that 

regar tot e return ° a · this struggle on the part of those who favor the passage of this bill with The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved ·That the Clerk request the Senate t.o return to the House the bill of the Senate amendments ~ utterly useless. We are powerless in the 

the Hous~ (No.6770) making appropriations for the diplomatic and consular · hands ofthe few gentlemen who seek to defeat that measure. service of the Government for the fiscal year ending June 30,1885, and for other I therefore propose that we leave it where it is, and by tmanipurposes; and the me sage of agreement to the report of the committee of con- mous consent pass to the consideration of House private pension bills 

ference thereon. · that have come back from the Senate with amendments, and Senate 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection his resolution will be con- private pension bills which hav-e been passed by that body and sent to 

sidered as adopted, and the Clerk will ask for the return of the bill. us and are now on the Speaker's table. [Applause and cries of ''That 

There was no objection. is right!"] _ 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. TOWNSHEND. I differ with my friend from Indiana [Mr. 

The SPEAKER. Theregularorderisdemanded. Theregularorder BROWNE] as to what would be the fate of this bill if it should go to 

is the motion of the gentleman from Alabama [1\fr. HEWITT] that the the Committee of the Whole. In the :first place, I do not understand 

House do now proceed to the consideration of the special order, the bill that it would go to the foot of the Calendar. That is a question which 

H. R. 3962. I propose to raise whenever the bill goes to the Committee of the Whole, 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Will the House indulge me in making and good parliamentarians will bear me out in the belief that it is not 

a brief statement of the situation in which we find ourselves, with a yet settled that the bill would go to the foot of the Calendar if it should 

view of reaching some adjustment of the controversy between thegen- be referred to the Committee of the Whole. 

tlemen who oppose and those who favor the l\Iexican war pension bill? Again, I will say to my friend that he is mistaken in regard to the 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will proceed if there be no objection. number of bills now in Committee of the Whole on the state of the 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. How much time does the gentleman Union. I made a computation of them last night myself, and I fbund 

from Indiana desire to occupy? that there were not more than one hundred and fifty on that Calendar. 

1\fr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Not more than five minutes. [Laughter.] But even if there "':ere one .h~dred an~ fifty or four 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the gentleman from Indiana hundred bills on that Calendar, w1th a maJonty determmed to reach 

making a brief statement? the Mexican war pension bill, I am satisfied that it can be reached. 

l\f.r. BLOUNT (in his seat). I object. Therefore I do not consider the bill killed by sending it to the ComMr. BROWNE, of Indiana. What I desired t o say was notintended mittee of the Whole. to be partisan or irritating in any way. Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I want to say--
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6105 

Mr. TO}VNSHEND. Do not interrupt me; I did not interrupt you. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Very well. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I am willing, however, to acquiesce in the 

suggestion made by the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. BROWNE] to let 

the bill go over for the present. But I give notice that if th bill shall 

go over until the next session of Congress, I shall then insist, as I have 

heretofore done, upon the motion to proceed to the consideration of 

business upon the Speaker's table, and seek to bring this bill up for 

aetion. And I trust that the time may come when the majority of 

this House will favor the consideration of this bill, with such modifications of the Senate amendments as will satisfy a majority of the 

House. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. A single word. I made this statement 

on the supposition that my distinguished friend from illinois [Mr. 

TOWNSHEND] who has made this gallant fight for this measure agrees 

withme--

1\fr. TOWNSHEND. I do agree with you. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. But if he proposes to go before the country with the assertion that there is even a possibility of passing this 

bill between now and the time when this House may be called upon 

to finally adjourn, then I withdraw my suggestion. [Applause, and 

cries of" That is right!"] 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I wish to say this--

Mr. REED. Try the experiment. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. The gentleman has misunderstood me. [Cries 

of" Regular order!"] That is hardly fair. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. The trouble comes from your side. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I know there is fair dealing enough on that 

side of the House to allow me a moment to reply to the gentleman from 

Indiana [Mr. BROWNE]. That gentleman has misunderstood me. I 

did not say that we could reaeh this bill within the next few days of 

this session if it goes to the Committee of the Whole House. But I say 

that if it g<Jes to the Committee of the Whole, then at the next session 

of this House I believe the bill can be reached and disposed of, if a ma.. 

jority of the House are determined to reach it. Therefore I am willing 

that for the present the bill shall be set aside, and that we take up the 

private pension bills which the gentleman suggests. 

The SPEAKER. It is important that the House shall understand 

distinctly what the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] means 

when he says he is willing 11 that this bill shall be set aside for the 

present.'' Does the gentleman mean set aside for this session, or set 

aside until the other measures to which reference has been made shall 

have been disposed of? The Chair takes the liberty of making this 

suggestion because the other day there was some misunderstanding 

about the agreement that was then entered into. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I will state again that if it is likely that this 

House will adjourn within the next few da.ys, I am willing that the 

bill shall be laid aside for this session. But if the session is to be protra.cted during this month, or during the summer, I would not like to 

bind myself to an agreement that the bill shall be laid a&de for this ·session. · 

Mr. MILLS. I propose that we lay this bill aside by unanimous 

consent-lay it aside for a week, as a gentleman suggests-and then 

proceed to take up the pension bills which have come from the Senate, 

and aJso the bills reported from the Committee of the Whole (of which 

there are some half a dozen) for the erection of public buildings. The 

bills to which I refer have been acted upon favorably in the Committee of the Whole, and are now on the Speaker's table as unfinished 

business. " 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Now, I think we can arrive at an agreement. 

If this House is not to remain in session longer than next week, I 

would be willing to lay this bill aside for the session--

M:r. MILLS. I fear the gentleman did not understand all my proposition. 

The SPEAKER. There are three or fo~ propositions now before 

the House. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I will make a motion which is in order, and I 

think meets ail these objections-that the further consideration of this 

bill be postponed until the 14th of July, that is M"onday week. If we should be in session on that day, we can take it up; and for the present we get it out of the way. The motion which I submit is in order and 

does not require unanimous consent. 

The SPEAKER. The motion indicated by thegentlemanfrom illinois [Mr. SPRINGER] is in order whenever the gentleman from Ala.. 

bama [Mr. HEWITI] withdraws the motion he has made that the House 

proceed to the consideration of the special order. It requires unanimous consent or some agreement among members on the floor to reach a conclusion. 

1111'. SPRINGER. I ask the gentleman to withdraw that motion, 

and I will move to postpone the consideration of this bill until the 

14th of this month. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I think the House will bear me wit- ness that I have used every effort to get up the private pension bills 

which are now pending in the House-bills to pension persons who 

have been wounded or who have contracted disease in the military 

service of the Government. I am willing now to accept the proposition made by the gentleman from Indiana that this bill shall be postI 

poned or laid aside until the next session, and that we proceed now to 

the consideration of those private pension bills. 

A M'EMBER. House bills with Senate amendments. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. House bills with Senate amendments 

and aJso Senate bills reported favorably by the Pension Committee of 

this House and now on the Calendar. 

Now, Mr. Speaker, one further word and I am through. Gentlemen 

will remember that this bill, which now comes back from the Senate 

with amendments, passed this House early in the session. Going to 

the Senate, it remained there until the closing weeks of the session, 

when it came back here with :fifteen or sixteen amendments, radical 

amendments, which many of us believe will involve an expenditure of 

:fifty or sixty million dollars annually. Whether that is the fact or not, 

we honestly believe it. We believe that it will saddle upon the Government a debt of $2,000,000,000. 

Mr. SPRINGER (to Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama). Donotdiscussthe 

merits of the question. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I am not discussing the merits of the 

question; I am only stating what we honestly believe. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Now, upon that point will the gentleman 

allow me to correct him? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Wait a moment. I did not interrupt 

the gentleman at all. 

Gentlemen will bear me witness that I have been willing to discuss 

this bill, but have been prevented from doing so. An attempt has been 

made to pass this bill without discussion and wit.hout consideration. 

It seems to me that there is not a reasonable man in all this country 

who can object to what I have done here, believingasibelieve. Now, 

I may be wrong--

Mr. STEELE. I think you are. 

Mr. HEWITT, o~Alabama. I may be wrong, but still I believeMr. TOWNSHEND. It is on that point I wanted the gentleman in 

fairne..'IS to allow me to correct him. 

A MEMBER (to:J\1r. HEWI'IT, of Alabama). Nowwithdrawyourmotion. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. No; I will not withdraw my motion; 

but I will consent that we go to the Speaker's table to take up private 

pension bills with Senate amendments and dispose of them, and when 

they are disposed of that we go to the Private Calendar in Committee 

of the Whole and take up private pensions bills which have passed the 

Senate and which the House committees have recommended, this bill 

meanwhile going over till next session. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. One word in reply. 

Mr. HERBERT. I object to further discussion. [Cries of" Regular order ! "] 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Mr. Speaker, I refrained from adiscussion--

Mr. HERBERT. I object to further discussion. 

Mr. TQWNSHEND. I merely want to correct the statement-of the 

gentleman from Alabama [Mr. HEwrrT]. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I have not gone into any discussion. 

I simply stated-- [Cries of" Regular order!"] 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is demanded on both sides. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I think in fairness I ought to be allowed to 

correct the statement of the gentleman from Alabama. [Renewed cries 

of 11 Regular order ! '' ] 

The SPEAKER. Unanimous consent is asked that the bill known 

as the Mexican pension bill with Senate amendments be passed over--

Mr. TOWNSHEND. A misrepresentation has been made in regard 

to that bill, and I want to correct it. I have a right to do so. 

The SPEAKER. The bill is not under discussion. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I know that; but the gentleman from Alabama 

took advantage- [Cries of" Regular order!"] The bill does not 

involve anything like the amount of money which the gentleman stated. 

[Renewed cries of" Regular order!"] 

The SPEAKER. The Chair is endeavoring to submit a request to 

the HonseMr. MILLS. I desire to submit an amendment. 

The SPEAKER. It is not subject to amendment; it is a request for 

unanimous consent. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. If I can not correct the statement which has 

been made, I object. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from illinois objects. The Chair 

will state in the interest of the transaction of public business--

1\fr. TOWNSHEND. I object, 1\ir. Speaker. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair had recognized the gentleman's objection, but desires to make the statement that whenever it appears on a call of the roll--

1\fr. TOWNSHEND. I say that the statement made by the gentleman from Alabama is not correct. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Illinois is not in order. When..: 

ever it appears from a call of the roll that is entered upon the Journal 

that no quorum has voted the Chair can not entertain any motion or transact any further business until a quorum appears. The Constitution itself forbids the transaction of business by less than a quorum of 

the House. The Chair states this so that gentlemen who demand the 

yeas and nays may know the possible effect of it. 

Mr. BELFORD rose. 
6106 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

The SPEAKER. There is no question before the House. [Cries of 

'' ReguL:'U' order!"] 

Mr. BELFORD. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. BELFORD. I want to know how much of a majority the 

Democrats have. [Laughter.] 

The SPEAKER. That is not a parliamentary inquiry. 

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, announced 

that the Senate returned to the House, in compliance with its request, a bill (H. R. 6770) making appropriations for the consular and diplomatic service of the Government for the fiscal year ending June 30, 

1885, and for other purposes. 

It further announced the pa-ssage of the following bills without 

amendment: . 

A billlH. R. 204) granting a pension to Susan Y. Atwater; 

A bill H. R. 1752) for the relief of Mary L. Lee; and 

A bill H. R. 5553) granting a pension to Isabella Palmer. 

CONSULAR AND DIPLOl\LA.TIC BILL. 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection, the bill will be corrected 

in accordance with the action of the House and returned to the Senate. 

There was no objection; and it was ordered accordingly. 

MEXICAN PENSION BILL. 

The SPEAKER. The question recurs on the motion of the gentle- man from Alabama [:Mr. HEWITT] to call up the special order, being 

the original Mexican pension bill, introduced by the gentleman himself, on which the yeas and nays have been ordered. 

Mr. WAIT. Can not the gentleman from Alabama withdraw that 

motion if he sees fit? 

The SPEAKER. He can, but he does not do so. [Cries of '' Regular order ! "] 

The question was taken; and there were-yeas 41, nays 111, not 

voting 172; as follows: 

YEAS-41.· 

Adams,J. J. Eaton, Lore, Tw·ner, H. G. 

.Alexander, Garrison, Lyman, Turner, Oscar 

Barksdale, Gibson, Ma ybury, Vance, 

Blanchard, Graves, Mills, Warner, Richard 

Caldwell, Halsell, Ochiltree, Willis, 

Carleton, Hatch, W.H. O'Neill, J. J. Wilson, W. L. 

Cassidy, Henley, Ranney, Wolford, 

Clay, Houseman, Seney, Wood. 

Cox,W.R. Hunt, Taylor, J. M. DargRil, Jordan, Thompson, 

Dibble, Kleiner, Tillman, 

NAY8-lll. 

Adams, G. E. Funston, McCoid, Springer, 

Atkinson, Gla cock, McComas, Steele, 

Bagley, Greenleaf, McCormick, Stewart, J. W. 

Bayne, Hart l\Iiller, S. H. Strait 

Belford, Hatch, H. H. Mitchell, Struble, 

Boutelle, Hemphill, l'\Iorrill, Sumner, C. A. 

Brewer, F. B. Hepburn, :Murray, Sumner, D. H . 

Brewer,J.H. Hiscock, Neece, Taylor, J. D. 

Broadhead, Hitt, Nelson, Thomas, 

Brown, W . W. Hoblitzell, O'Hara, Townshend, 

Budd, Holman, 0' ,.eill, Charles Valentine, 

Campbell, J. M. Holmes, Payne, Van Alstyne, 

Chalmer , Horr, Payson, Wadsworth, 

Collins, Howey, Perkins, Wait, 

Co grove, James, Peters, Wallace, 

Culbertson, W. W. J efl'ords, Phelps, Washburn, 

Cullen, Johnson, Price, Weaver, 

Cutcheon, Jones, B. W. Pusey, Weller, 

Davi. G. R. Kasson, Randall, White, J.D. 

Davis, R. T. Kean, Ray,G.W. White, Milo 

Deuster, Kellogg, Ray, Ossian Whiting, 

Dingley, . Lacey, Reed, Wilson, James 

English, Laird, Rockwell, Winans, E . B. 

Evans, I. N. Lawrence, Rosecrans, Winans, John 

Everhart, LeFevre, Seymour, Woodward, 

F~ell, Libbey, Skinner, C. R. Yaple, 

Fo ett, Lovering, Smalls, York. 

Foran, Lowry, Spooner, 

NOT VOTING-172. 

Aiken, Bw·nes, Dowd, Hardy, 

Anderson, Cabell, Duncan, Harmer, 

Arnot, Calkins, Dunham, Haynes, 

Ballentine, Campbell, Felix Dunn, Henderson, D. B. 

Barbour, Campbell,J.E. Eldredge, Henderson, T. J. Barr Candler, Elliott, Herbert, 

Beach, Cannon, . Ellis Hewitt, A.. S. 

Belmont, Cl.ace, Ellw~od, Hewitt, G. W. 

Bennett, Clardy, Ermentrout, Hill, 

Bingham, Clements, Evins, J. H . Holton, 

Bisbee, Co-bb, Fiedler, Hooper, 

Blackburn, Connolly, Findlay, Hopkins, 

Bland, Converse, Finerty, Houk, 

'Blount, Cook, Forney, Hurd, 

Bowen, Covington, Fyan, Hutchins, ' Boyle, Cox, S. S. Geddes, Jones, J . H. Brainerd, Crisp, George, Jones, J. K. Breckiuridge, Culberson, D. B. Goff, Jones, J. T. Brei tung, Curtin, Green, Keifer, 

Browne, T. M. Davidson, Guenther, Kelley, 

Brumm, Davis, L. H. Hammond, Ket{!bam, 

Buchanan, Dibrell, Hanback, King, 

Buckner, Dockery, Hancock, Lamb, 

Burleigh, Dorsheimer, Hardeman, Lanham, 

Lewis, 

Long, 

McAdoo, 

McMillin, 

Mat on, Millard, 

Miller, J. F. 

1\:Iilliken, 

Money, 

Morgan, 

Morrison, 

Morse, 

Moulton, 

Muldrow, 

1\Iuller, 

1\Iurphy, 

1\Iutchler, 

Nicholls, 

Nutting, 

Oates, 

O'Ferrall, 

P aige, 

Parker, 

Patton, 

Peel, 

Pierce, 

Pettibone, 

Poland, 

Post, 

Potter, 

Pryor, 

Rankin 

Reagan: 

Reese, 

Rice, 

Riggs, 

Robertson, 

Robinson, J. S. 

Robinson, W. E. R.ogers, J. H. Rogers, W. F. Rowell, 

Russell, 

Ryan, 

Scales, 

Shaw, 

Shelley, 

Singleton, 

Skinner, T. G. 

Slocum, 

Smith, 

Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Stephenson, 

Stevens, 

Stewart, Charles 

Stockslager, 

Stone, 

Storm, 

Talbott, 

Taylor, E. B. Throckmorton, 

Tucker, 

Tully, 

VanEaton, 

Wakefield, 

Ward, 

Warner, A. J. Wellborn, 

Wemple, 

Wilkms, 

Williams, Wise, G. D. Wise,J. S. 

Worthington, 

Young. 

So (no quorum having voted) the motion w~ not agreed to. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I ask unanimous consent to withdraw 

my motion. 

The SPEAKER. The record shows there is no quorum present, 

and only two motions are in order-to adjourn, or that there be a call 

of the House. If the gentleman moves to adjourn it can be taken by 

tellers, and the Chair has no doubt a quorum is present. Mr. CUTCHEON. I move that there be a call of the House. 

Mr. PERKINS. · I move that theHouse do now adjourn. [Cries of 

"No!" "No!"] 

The SPEAKER. The Chair understands the desire to be simply to 

ascertain the presence of a quorum. 

The question was taken. 

Before the announcement of the result, 

Mr. PERKINS, Mr. MORRILL, and others demanded tellers. 

Tellers were ordered. 

Mr. PERKINS and Mi. TOWNSHEND were appointed tellers. The House divided; and the tellers reported- ayes 44, noes 157. 

So the motion was not agreed to. _ 

The SPEAKER. A quorum is present, as shown by the reportofthe 

tellers. 

Mr. KASSON. In view of the examination that several gentlemen on the other side have given to the proposition I suggested yesterday, 

I venture once more to ask if there will be objection to acting upon the 

three points to which I alluded, two of which have already passed both 

Houses of Congress and one has been favorably reported by a committee of this House? If there be consent to hear a brief statement, I 

should be glad to name the three items to which I referred, since both 

the chairmen of the Pension Comn':rittees of the House-the gentleman 

from Alabama who is now on his feet before me and the gentleman 

from Illinois-as well as other gentlemen have signified their acquiescence in these amendments. 

If I could have leave to state them I would be glad to call attention 

to them, as it seems to be conceded this is all we are likely to do with 

the bill at this time. 1r. HEWITT, of Alabama. In response to the gentleman from 

Iowa, I wish to state that if the Senate choose to pass them they have 

nothing to do but to pass a bill which the House has already passed, 

and they will become a law. 

Mr. KASSON. Only two of them; and the Senate have not acted 

upon them, except upon the bill that they have sent backtotheHouse 

with other amendments. 

1\fr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Only two, and they are now before the 

Senate and can be passed by the Senate at any .time. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I demand the regular order. 

1\fr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I now withdraw my motion to take up 

the special order. 

Mr. FOLLETT. I move to postpone the further consideration of this 

bill now under consideration until the second Tuesday in December 

next. 

Mr. BOUTELLE. Let the responsibility of that rest upon those who 

propose to kill this pension legi la.tion. 

The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the motion of the 

gentleman from Ohio to postpone the further consideration of this bill 

until the second Tuesday in December·next. 

The question was taken. The House divided. 

Before the result was announced, 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I ask the yeas and nays on that motion. · The yeas and nays were ordered. 

1\fr. CUTCHEON. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. CUTCHEON. I desire to a k the Chair if it would be in order 

to offer an amendment to the motion of the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. 

FOLLETT]. . 

The SPEAKER. It is a motion to postpone. 1\Ir. CUTCHEON. I understand; and I desire to move to amend the 

motion by making the postponement for one weex: from Tuesday next, so that if Congre shall remain in session we will have an opportunity 

with a full House to act upon this pension bill; but, on thecontrary, if 

Congress should adjourn in the mean while, ef course the measure would 

necessarily have to be po tponed. 

Mr. FOLLETT. I accept that amendment. 
1884. OONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6107 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will state that in order to allow the 

amendment of the gentleman from :Michigan to come before the House 

to be voted on the order directing the yeas and nays to be taken must· 

first be reconsidered, for that order relates to a particular motion. 

1\Ir. SPRINGER. I move to reconsider ~he vote by which the yeas 

and nays were ordered. 

The que tion was taken. The House divided; and therewerEr-ayes 

60, noes 21. . 

1\Ir. WillTE, of Kentucky, Mr. BROWN, of Pennsylvania, and oth- ers. No quorum. · 

1\Ir. HISCOCK. I desire to inquire of the gentleman from Ohio if he 

will be willing to modify his motion to this effect: that the Senate 

amendments to the Mexican p,ension bill shall be considered on the day 

fixed. 

1\ir. DUNN. No; I object to that. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Why? 

lli. TOWNSHEND. That can not be prevented if the majority of 

the House desires it to be done. 

1\Ir. FOLLETT. I am perfectly willing ~hat the House shall take 

such action in that respect as it may deem advisable. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. We had assurance from the gentleman 

from Illinois in charge of this bill that there is a possibility at the last 

moment of being able to pass it before the adjournment of Congress. 

While that possibility exists I do not feel inclined, nor do the friends 

of the bill on this side of the House, to postpone it. 

1\Ir. TOWNSHEND. Now the gentleman from Indiana. misrepresents, or rather misunderstands me. The gentleman did not understand me to agree--

. 1\Ir. HISCOCK. There seems to be an understanding here that the 

bill can not be reached or any definite action taken. I do not believe 

it can be reached before the House adjourns. 

1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. Let us try it. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Now, if you will fix by unanimous consent on the 

other side1\Ir. BLOUNT. I demand the regular order. 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is the motion to reconsider the 

vote by which the yeas and nays were ordered. Upon that no quorum 

voted, and the Chair will appoint tellers. 

1\lr. WHITE, of Kentucky, and Mr. FOLLETT were appointed tellers. 

1\Ir. STEELE. Did any gentleman raise the question of a quorum? 

M_r. WHITE, of Kentucky. Yes; we want a square vote on that 

motwn. Let gentlemen· put themselves on record on the proposition 

of the gentleman from Ohio. · 

The SPEAKER. The tellers will take their places. 

The House divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 58, noes 54. 

The SPEAKER. No·-quorum has voted. 

1\fr. SPRINGER. I withdraw the motion to reconsider the vote or- dering the yeas and nays. 

Mr. WHITE; of Kentucky. Then I insist on the regular order. 

The SPE~ER. The question now is on the motion of the gentleman from Oh10 [Ur. FOLLETT] to postpone the further consideration 

of t~e Senate amendments to th~ pending bill until the second Tuesday m December next; and on this motion the yeas and nays have 

been ordered. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Would it be in order to withdraw the motion? 

The SPEAKER. It would. 

Mr. FOLLETT. I withdraw it. 

1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. I object to the gentleman withdrawing 

his motion. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Ohio has the right to withdraw his motion under the rules of the House. 

Mr. WHI'l'E, of Kentucky. I would like to see that side fairly on the record. I do not want to see them retreat under :fire. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I move that the House go to the Speaker's table 

to consider pension bills. 

The SPEAKER. That motion requires unanimous consent. 

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

Ry unanimous consent, leave of absence was granted as follows: 

To 1\ir. DIBRELL, for the remainder of this session on account of 

sickness in his family. ' 

T? 1\ir. CAMPBELL, of Ohio, for one week, on account of important 

busrness. 

To Mr. CHALMERS, for the remainder of this day. 

MESSAGE FROM THE SEN ATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, informed 

the House that the Senate had agreed to the report of the committee 

of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the.bill (H. R. 6770) making appropriations for 

the. consular and diplomatic service of the Government for the year . endmg June 30, 188<>, and for other purposes; further insisted npon its 

amendment numbered 158 disagreed to by the House, agreed to the 

further conference asked by the Hou e on the disagreeing votes of the 

two Houses thereon, and had appointed 1\fr. ALLISON, Mr. HALE, and 

Mr. COCKRELL managers of the conference on the part of the Senate. 

The ~essage further announced that the Senate had appointed 1\ir. 

PLUMB lll place ofl\Ir. DAWES, excused, as one ofthe managers of the 

conference on the part of the Senate on the amendments of the Senate (not disposed of in conference) disagreed to by the House to the bill 

~H .. ~- 7069) making appropriations for the legislative, executive, and 

JUdicial expenses of the Government for the :fiscal year ending June 

30, 1 5, and for other purposes. 

The message further announced that the Senate had passed without 

amendment bills of the House of the following titles: 

A bill (H. R. 875) granting a pension toP. W. Bradbury· 

A bill (H. R. 50 8) for the relief of Magdalena Cook; ' 

A bill (H. R. 4180) granting an increase of pension to Rowland 

Ward; and 

A bill (H. R. 2574) granting a pension to Rosella Pegg. 

MEXICAN WAR PENSIONS. 

The_ SPEAKER. The regular order is demanded. The regular 

order 18 the motibn of the gentleman from illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND J. 

lli. TOWNSHEND. I have no motion pending. 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is the demand of the gentleman 

from Illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] for the previous question on the motion to concur in the sixth amendment of the Senate to the Mexican 

pension bill. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I withdraw the motion for the time being. 

The SPEAKER. What motion, then, does the gentleman make? 

The bill is before the House. It is the first business on the Speaker's 

table, and the House has resolved to go to the consideration of bills on 

the Speaker's table. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I am willing the House should proceed to 

other business. 

lli. CALKINS. I move to concur in the pending amendment· or I 

move to concur in all the Senate amendments, if that is in order.' 

1\fr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I make the point of order that that can not be done. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Alabama makes the point of 

order that the amendments must be considered separately. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I move to postpone the further consideration of 

the bill and make it the special order for Tuesday week in the House. 

Mr. HORR. Say Monday morning. 

1\ir. SPRINGER. If gentlemen prefer it, I will say Tuesday next. 

The SPEAKER. The latter part of the motion of the gentleman 

from Illinois [1\Ir. SPRINGER] is one which requires unanimous con-

~eJ?-t, because it changes the rules of the Honse. A motion to postpone 

18 rn order, but to make the bill a special order gives it preference over 

others and changes the rules. 

1\fr. SPRINGER. Then I move to postpone the further consideration of the Senate amendments until Tuesday next. 

1\ir. DAVIS, of Missouri. On thatmotionidemand theyeasandnays. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. That motion is equivalent as I understand, to defeating the bill. ' 

· The yeas and nays were ordered, 47 members voting therefor-more 

than one-fifth of the last vote. 

The SPE~E~. TJ;te question is on the motion to postpone the 

further consideration of the Senate amendments to this bill until next 

Tuesday. 

1\ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. The effect of which is to kill the bill. 

The question was taken; and there werEr-yeas 24, nays 127, not 

voting 173; as follows: 

YEAB-24. 

Adams,J.J. Collins, Lyman, Tucker, Alexander, Cosgrove, lUcCoid, Turner, H. G. 

Blanchard, Dunn, OchiHree, Wilson, W.L. Brewer, F. B. English, Potter, Wise, G. D. ·cannon, Follett, Rogers, J. H. Wolford, Cassidy, Garrison, Springer, York. 

NAYB-127. 

Adams. G. E. Funston, Libbey, Skinner, C. R. Atkinson, George, Lovering, Smalls, Bagley, Glascock, Lowry, Spooner, Ballentine, Goff, McComas, Steele, Bayne, Graves, McCormick, Stephenson, Belford, Greenleaf, Maybury, Stewart,J. W. Boutelle, Guenther, Millard, Strait, Brewer, J. H. Halsell, 1\liller, S. H. Struble, Broadhead, Hart, Mitchell, Sumner D.H. Browne, T. M. HatchhW.H. Morrill, Taylor, J.D. Brown,W.W. Hemp ill, :Murray, Thomas, 

Budd, Henley, Neece, Towru;hend, 

Calkins, Hepburn, O'Hara, Tumer, Oscar 

Campbell,J.M.: Hiscock, 0 Neill, Charles Valentine, 

Carleton, Hitt, ·o•Neill,J.J. Van Alstyne, Clay, Hoblitzell, Payne, Vance, 

Connolly, Holman, Perkins, Wadsworth, 

Cox,W.R. Holmes, Peters, Wallace, 

Cullen, Horr, Phelps, Warner, Richard 

Cutcheon, Houseman, Price, Washburn, Dar~n, Howey, Randall, Weaver, 

DaVIs,G.R. James, Ranney, Weller, 

Davis,R.T. Johnson, Ray,G.W. White, J.D . Deuster, Jones,B.W. RaydO ian ~~,1\Iilo Dibble, Jordan, Ree, 

Dingley, Ka son, Robinson, J. S. Wilso~. James Dowd, Ke.'Ul, Rockwell, Winans, E. B. EatDn, Kellogg, Rosecrans, Winans, John 

Evans, LN. Kleiner, Rowell, Wood, 

Everhart, Lacey, Seney, Woodward, Ferrell, Lawrence, Seymour, Yaple. Foran, LeFevre, Singleton, 
6108 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, 

.Aiken, 

Anderson, 

Arnot. 

Barbour, 

Barksdale, 

Barr 

Beach, 

Belmont, 

Bennet~, 

Bingham, 

Bisbee, 

Blackburn, 

Bland, 

Blount, 

Bowen, 

Boyle, 

Brainerd, 

Breckinridge, 

Breitung, 

Brumm, 

Buchanan, 

Buckner, 

Burleigh, 

Burnes, 

Cabell, 

Caldwell 

Campbell, Felix 

Campbell, J. E. 

Candler, 

Chace, 

Chalmers, 

Clardy, 

Clements, 

Cobb, 

Converse, 

Cook, 

Covington, 

Cox,S.S. 

Crisp, 

Culberson, D. B. 

Culbertson, W. W. 

Curtin, • Davidson, 

Davis,L.H. 

NOT VOTING-178. 

Dibrell, 

Dockery, 

Dorsheimer, 

Duncan, 

Dunham, 

Eldredge, 

Elliott, 

Ellis, 

Ellwood, 

Ermentrout, 

Evins,J.H. 

Fiedler, 

Findlay, 

Finerty, 

Forney, 

Fyan, 

<kddes, 

Gibson, 

Green, 

Hammond, 

Hanback, 

Hancock, 

Hardeman, 

Hardy, 

Harmer, 

Hatch, H. H. 

Haynes, 

Henderson, D. B. 

Henderson, T. J. 

Herbert, 

Hewitt, A. S. 

:ruwitt, G. W. 

Holton, 

Hooper, 

Hopkins, 

Houk 

Hunt,' 

Hurd, 

Hutchins, 

Jeffords, 

Jones,J.H. 

Jones,J.K. 

Jones,J.T. 

Keifer, 

Kelley, 

Ketcham, 

King, 

Laird, 

Lamb, 

Lanham, 

Lewis, 

Long, 

Lore 

McAdoo, 

McMillin, 

Matson 

Miller,lF, 

Milliken, 

Mills, 

~Ioney, 

Morgan, 

Morrison, 

Morse, 

Moulton, 

Muldrow, 

Muller, 

Murphy, 

Mutchler, 

Nelson, 

Nicholls, 

Nutting, 

Oates, 

O'Ferrall, 

Paige, 

Parker, 

Patton, 

Payson, 

Peel, 

Pettibone, 

Pierce, 

Poland, 

Post, 

Pryor, 

Pusey, 

Rankin, 

Reagan, 

Reese, 

Rice, 

Riggs, 

R.obertson 

R.obinSOEJ 'w. E. 

R-Ogers, w. F. 

Russell, 

Ryan, 

Scales, 

Shaw, 

Shelley, 

Skinner, T. G. 

Slocum, 

Smith, 

Snyder, 

Spriggs, 

Stevens, 

Stewart, Charles 

Stockslager, 

Stone, 

Storm, 

Sumner, C. A. 

Talbott, 

Taylor, E. B. 

Taylor,J.M. 

Thompson, 

Throckmorton, 

Tillman, 

Tully, 

VanEaton, 

Wait, 

Wakefield, 

Ward, 

Warner,A.J. 

Wellborn, 

Wemple, 

Whiting, 

Wilkins, 

Williams, 

Wise1."!.S. 

Wortnington, 

Young. 

Mr. ADAMS, of New York. I ask unanimous consent that the reading of the names of those voting be dispensed with. 

1\fr. WELLER. I object. . 

The SPEAKER. Objection is made, and the Clerk will recapitulate 

the names of those voting. 

The Clerk read the names, as above given. 

The following additional pairs were announced: 

M:r. STORM with Mr. HART, until further notice. 

Mr. OATES with Mr. PAYNE, for this day. 

1\fr. MULDROW with Mr. JEFFORDS, for this day. 

The SPEAKER. On the motion to postpone there are-yeas 24, 

nays 127. No quorum has voted. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Would it be in order for me to withdraw the 

motion to postpone? 

The SPEAKER. It would be. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Then I withdraw that motion. 

The SPEAKER. Thegentlemanfromlllinois (Mr. SPRINGER] withdraws the motion to postpone. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Then I suppose the question recurs upon 

concurring in the amendment of the Senate numbered 6 to this bill? 

The SPEAKER. It does. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I object to the gentleman-withdrawing 

the motion to postpone. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has that right under the rule, for 

this is no vote, no quorum having appeared. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Then I desire to discuss the question 

of concurring in the amendment of the Senate. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will proceed. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. On the 3d Q.ay of March last this bill 

was passed by the House under a suspension of the rules, in which I did 

not concur, because I did not believe that it was right to pass a bill involving as much money as even this bill then involved without discussion 

and without deliberation. But the bill was passed granting pensions 

to certain surviving soldiers of the Mexican war and to the widows of 

such as were married prior to the discharge of the soldiers from the 

service. That bill went to the Senate the next day, and it remained 

there until a little over a week ago, probably two weeks. 

J\Ir. PETERS. I rise to ~question of order. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

:Mr:_. PETERS. What is the subject before the House? 

The SPEAKER. The question is upon concurring in the Senate 

amendment numbered 6, and the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. HEWITT] is addressing the House on that question. 

Mr. PETERS. I call for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER. That is the regular order. The previous question 

has not been demanded or ordered, and under the rules of the House 

the subject is debatable. !~Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. I would inquire how much time the 

gentleman has? 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman is entitled to one hour under the 

rules of the House. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I beg gentlemen not to become excited. 

I shall not be excited. It was rirged here by the friends of the Mexican 

pension bill, and by the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] in 

particular, that the Mexica.n pension bill should stand upon its own 

merit. 

MESSAGE FROU THE SEN .ATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, informed 

the Honse that the Senate had agreed to the report of the committee 

of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H .R. 7069) making appropriations for 

the legislative, executive, and judicial expenses of the Government for 

the :fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, and for other purpo es; also that 

the Senate further insisted upon its amendments to said bill numbered 

21, 24, and 25, disagreed to by the House of Representatives, and asked. 

a further conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses thereon 

and had appqinted as the managers of the conference on the part of the 

Senate Mr. soN, Mr. PLUMB, and Mr. CocKRELL. · 

Them ge also announced thattheSenatehadappointed 1t!r. CoCK~ 

· lace of Mr. D.A. WES, excused, as one of the managers of the 

confere e on the part of the Senate on t!Ie diSagreeing votes of the two 

upon the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 7380) 

ma appropriations for sundry civil expenses ofthe Governmentfor 

the :fi. cal year ending June 30, 1885, and for other purposes. 

MEXICAN W .A.B. PENSIONS. 

e House resumed the consideration of the Senate amendments to 

the bill (H. R. 5667) granting pensions to the soldiers and sailors of the 

Mexican war, and for other purposes, the question being upon the 

motion to concur in the sixth amendment of the Senate. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I was saying that the friends of the 

Mexican pension bill objected to attaching to it pensions for Indian wars 

which had ·preceded the Mexican war, upon the ground that the soldiers of each of those wars should stand upon their own merits. Under 

the influence of that argument this bill was passed, giving pensions 

simply and purely to the surviving soldiers of the Mexican war and the 

widowsofsuch as were married to their husbands prior to their discharge from the service. 

We were then told by the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. BROWNE] 

and by other gentlemen on that side of the House that that bill, limited 

as it was to the soldiers of the Mexican war an.d their widows, would 

cost this country from twenty to twenty-five millions of dollars per 

annum. And some of the great newspapers of the country contended 

that it would cost $100,000,000. It was opposed upon the ground that 

it was taking too much money out of the Treasury. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Allow me to say that I never said that 

the pension bill would ever cost more than $7,000,000, instead of 25,-

000,000; a difference of$18,000,000 only. 

::h'Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. If members of the House wiil take the 

trouble to go baek and read the debates in the Forty-fifth Congress 

upon this subject, and also the debates in the present Congress, and if 

they will read the great newspapers .of the country-if they will even 

take the estimates coming from the Pension Bureau-they will find that 

the Commissioner of Pensions estimated that there were from 25,000 to 

30,000 of these Mexican war soldiers still surviving who would be entitled to pensions under that bill. And because of the large amount of 

money which that bill would cover it was bitterly opposed by gentlemen on the other side. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Will the gentleman allow me a question? 

At 100 a year for 25,000 persons the amount would be two and a half 

million of dollars instead of$20,000,000. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Now, therecomesherefrom the Senate 

a bill which is broader and more extensive even in regard to the soldiers 

of the Mexican war-a bill which will require more money in its execution than the bill which passed the House. The bill which was reported 

by the Committee on Pensions, and which passed the House, gave a pension to widows, but only in cases where the woman was married to the 

soldier before his discharge. This bill, which the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. BROWNE] and other gentlemen on that side of the House 

are advocating and trying to put through here without discussion or 

the privilege of amendment upon this side, proposes to grant pensions 

to widows regardless of the time when they were married. 

It is almost impossible to make any calculation as to the difference in 

the amount which these two measures would cot the Government. 

The war of 1812 was fought many years ago; and there are not now on 

the pension-roll more than a dozen surviving soldiers of that war. Yet 

there are on the pension-roll on account of that war 20,000 widows. 

The old men marry young wives. My friend from Kentucky who sits 

beside me [Mr. WoLFORD] says that is what they ought to do. I 

hardly think they ought. My friend had better not take a very young 

wife. [Laughter.] 

Now, what claim upon the country has a widow who married a man after his service as a soldier was performed? The claim of such a widow is not at all parallel to that of a widow whose husband left her 

in charge of the home and the <;hildren while he went off to fight the 

battles of his country? There is no similarity between the two cases. 

In the one case it may almost be said the wife was a participant in the 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· HOUSE. 6109 

hardships of her husband. She bore the burden of the family while 

the husband was .fighting for ·his country. She suffered the loss of hLs 

society. Such a widow ought to have a pension. But when a soldier 

after his return from the service marries the case of his widow is very 

different. 

There is another consideration connected with this granting of pensions to widows without limitation as to the t.ime of their marriage. It 

is an inducement, an absolute inducement for young girls to marry 

these old soldiers just before they die in order that they may receive 

pensions. 

Now, Mr. Speaker, I say it comes with poor grace from gentlemen 

on the other side who have heretofore opposed the Mexican pension bill 

upon the ground of the amount of money which it would take to meet 

these pensions to become all at once the advocates ofthis bill. 

Mr. Speaker, I have never advocated or supported and I never will 

favor a pension fund for widows of soldiers of the Mexican war or the 

widows of any other soldiers where the woman married the soldier after 

his discharge from the service. , 

Mr. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. Did you vote for the Cushing bill? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I did not. 

Now, there are certain pensions which are very different from service 

pensions and to which the rule I have just mentioned does not apply, 

because the law under which the right to a pension accrues is different 

and the pension is different. When you come to the case of an invalid 

pension, there the law of the contract which the Government made 

with the soldier when he entered the service was that if by wound or 

disease contracted in the service he should be disabled for the performance of manual labor he should have a pension, or if he died from such 

wound or disease his widow should have a pension regardless of the 

time of the marriage. I am for carrying out that law. I will stand 

by it as .firmly as any man on the other side of the House. Since I 

have been in Congress I have always stood by that law. The soldiers 

of the late war who received wounds or contracted disease in the service, and who under the law are entitled to pensions, will always find 

me an advocate of their claims. I shall always vote in favor of liberal 

pensions to such persons. 

So far as regards these invalid pensions, the claim of the widow to a 

pen ion regardless of the time of the marriage is a part of the contract 

which the Government made with these soldiers at the time they entered the service; and the.Government can not refuse to meet the obligation it has thus assumed without a repudiation of a sacred debt. 

Although I have stood here opposing this measure, the position I 

have taken has not resulted from any animosity toward the Union soldiers. I do not believe they have a warmer friend on the other side of 

the House than myself. I have always stood here ready to do them full 

justice. So long as I may have a vote in this House it shall always 

be cast to do justice to those who stood by the Union during the. late war. 

But, Mr. Spea.ker, this bill comes back here with amendments which 

I can not support. It proposes not to carry out the law of the contract, 

but to give a pension to every soldier of the late war who is now suffering from disability, whether that disability originated in the service 

or not. It gives these soldiers pensions ranging as high as $24 a month. 

But, Mr. Speaker, when it comes to deal with the pensions of soldiers 

of the Mexican war, how different are its provisions ! While I do honor 

to the Union soldiers, while I say they deserve as much as any soldiers 

of this country have ever had, yet I do not believe the country ought 

to make a distinction between the soldiers of the Mexican war and the 

soldiers of the Union Army. 

:Mr. STEELE. It puts the Mexican soldiers withoutregard to disability. 

:Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. You do, do you? No, sir; you do not 

do any such thing. You pension Mexican soldiers over a certain age, 

and for disability; you givP- him $8 a month. But when you come to 

the Union soldier, who is just as good and just as patriotic and deserves 

as much credit as those who fought in the Mexican war, you give him 

$24 a month for the same kind of disability, making a clear, unequivocal distinction between the two. 

Mr. STEELE. Why did you not offer an amendment? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama.. I havenothadanyopportunityto do so. Mr. STEELE. You did not give us any opportunity. 

:1\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. How? 

~Ir. STEELE. . You filibustered and prevented. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Why? 

Mr. STEELE. I can not say. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Because you tried to gag me, and you 

would do it if you could now, but I accidentally got in. 

:1\Ir. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. You do not seem to begaggednow. 

You had the same privilege all the way through to debate this bill. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Why, sir, the veryfirstthing they did 

was to move to concur, and they called the previous question and denied me the right to offer amendments. And when I tried to put 

your Union soldiers in here who had lost an arm or a leg to do them 

justice, you made the point of order on the bill and would not permit 

it to come in. How can you justifY the clear distinction between the 

two classes of soldiers, the one having stood gallantly by that flag which 

floats ov;r your head, Mr. Speaker, in a foreign war, and the other in 

a domestic war, who fought just as gallantly, just as heroically and deserves just as much credit and just as much houor. I believe we ought 

not to make a distinction between our soldiers in any age of our country or in any of our wars. Yet this bill does it. 

Again, sir, this bill is an innovation upon all the precedents heretofore established in reference to pensions. These amendments are most 

of them service pensions. Some of them I had no objection to. The 

main one is a service pension. Heretofore service pensions have been 

granted after the lapse of so many years from the close of the war. 

That has been the unbroken precedent in granting service pensions 

heretofore. · 

Mr. WEAVER. Do you not think you are brea.king the &bbath ? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I have read somewhere that there is 

no harm to do good on the Sabbath. I am not the only one who has been 

charged with breaking the Sabbath. I remember there were some 

self-righteous gentlemen who lived way back in the past who charged 

a certain person with breaking th~ sa:.bbath because he plucked a 

roasting-ear. 

A 1\IE:M:BER. When was that? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. A good many years ago. It is related 

in a history which you gentlemen do not seem to read much. [Laughter.] 

I was saying, Mr. Speaker, that the servicepensionswhichhave been 

heretofore granted have been on the ground that after the lapse of so 

many years from the war the presumption was the soldiers were getting 

old and they were entitled to pensions as a recognition of their services 

to the country. 

Mr. STEELE. The bill cuts off those who are not very old, and you 

object. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. They never did make any distinction 

between soldiers of the same war. 

I will now yield for a conference report. 

ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

Mr. GLASCOCK, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported 

that they had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following 

titles; when the.Speaker signed the same: 

A bill !H. R. 5553) granting a pension to Isabella Palmer; 

A bill H. R. 1752) for the relief of Maria L. Lee; and 

A bill H. R. 204) granting a pension ~ Susan Y. Atwater. 

LEGISLATIVE, EXECUTIVE, AND JUDICIAL APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Mr. llOLMAN. I submit the following report. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate numbered as hereinafter stated to the bill of the House 7069, making appropriations for the legislative, executive, and judicial ex- penses of the Government, and for other purposes, having met, after full and 

free conference have agreed to recommend and do recommend to their respecti ve Houses as follows : That the Senate recede from its amendments numbered 27 and 205. 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 91, 92, 94, 95, 2fYl, 208,209, 210, and 21l, 

and agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 93, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the number proposed insert "20; "and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Serutte 

numbered 206, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu 

of the number proposed insert '' 75; " and the Senate agree to the same. 'Ulat the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 212, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu 

of the sum proposed insert "$1,955,150; " and the Senate agree to t.l;le same. The committee of conference is unable to agree on the amendments of the 

Senate numbered 21, 24, and 25. 

JOHN HANCOCK, J. G. CANNON, 

Managers on the part of the HQ'USe. 

WILLI.A.l\I B . .ALLISON, P. B. PLUMB, F. M. COCKRELL, 

Managers on the part of the Senate. 

The statementa~companying the.report is as follows: 

The managers on the part of the House of the conference on the disagreeing votes ofthetwoHouseson the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 7069) 

making appropriations for the legislative, executive, and judicial expenses of 

the Government for the fiscal year 1885 submit the following written statement in explanation of the conference report: . The bill as it passed the Senate appropriated 21,697,261.85, bemg $1,087,~.90 

increase over the amount as it passed the House. As. agreed upon, includmg 

the amount involved in amendments 21, 24, and 25, which are not agreed to, it 

appropriates $21,426,321.85, being $816,484.97 greater than as it passed the House, 

and $270,940 less than as it passed the Senate. WM. S. HOLl\1.A.N, 

JOHN HANCOCK, J. G. CANNON, M~nagers on the part of the HQ'USe. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I desire to submit a very brief statement of the 

effects of this report. I am equally unfortunate in the result of this 

conference as in the former conference between the two Houses, in not 

being abl~ to reach the conclusion that has been satisfactory to my 

associates as man.agers on the part of tl;te House. I have not been able, 

sir to sign this report of the conferenc.e for reasons which would be h~dly necessary for me to enter into at so late an hour as this. 

But I wish to state the results of the action of. the conferees as pre-
6110 CONGRESSIONAL RECOR.D-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

sen ted, for I desire to correct certain impressions under which the conferees reported last evening touching one of the subjects of disagreement, that in regard to the Pension Bureau. There were four subjects- matter referred to the committee as matters of disagreement between 

the two Houses bv the last reference made. The one numbered iri 

the Senate amendments 21, 24, and 25, covers the item of the contingent 

fund of the Senate, which it is understood involves the employment 

of clerks for the Senn.tors. This is an item of $24,000, as it appears by 

the increase made in the Senate upon the House provision, but in fact 

involves an appropriation of "34, 000. 

The conferees have not been able to agree upon that, and it is the 

only subject, it will be observed, that remains as a matter of final disagreement. The other three subjects are embodied in the report as 

having been agreed upon. 

The :first is as to the salaries of collectors, and deputy collectors, and 

others under the internal-revenue system, which is Senate amendment 

No. 80. 

The conference yielded their disagreement, which increases the 

amount of appropriation for collectors, and deputies, and other officers 

connected with the service, $100,000. The House, it will be remembered, reduced the number from eighty-six, the number now existing, 

to forty-three; and it reduced the amount to be appropriated for the 

payment of the same $100,000. That sum the Senate amendment restores, and strikes out the provision, which would be amendment No. 

81, reducing the number of collection districts to forty-three. 

So that subject of the internal-revenue districts as affected by these 

amendments of the Senate 80 and 81, by restoring the law as it is now 

and increasing the appropriation $100,000, has been agreed upon, the 

House receding. · 

The next amendment, also involved in the internal-revenuesystem, is 

No. 87, and is the provision in the aggregate for the agents, gaugers, 

storekeepers, and others employed· in connection with the internal-revenue system. The Senate amendment appropriated $136,000 as an increase over the amount appropriated by the House. That item embraces the salaries for the special agents, and is virtually, with the exception of one matter to which I will ask attention in a moment, the 

restoration of the estimates as they came to the House last December. 

In that connection I will say the only concession made by the Senate 

was as to the number of special internal-revenue agents. 

The number now provided by law is thirty-five. The number provided in the bill as reported by the House committee was twenty-five. 

The House reduced the number to five. The Senate amendment 87 

increases the number to twenty-five, ten less than the present number. 

The Senate yields the increase to the extent of :five special agents; and 

this report fixes the number at twenty, being :fifteen more than the 

House bill provided for and :fifteen less than the present law. That is 

the concession as to the interval-revenue system made by the Senate. 

All the other provisions, as will be ·seen, touching the internal-rev-

. enue collection districts and customs districts are yielded by the House, 

the amendments of t.he Senate being accepted. 

~tothefourthsubject-mattercoveredbyamendmentsnumbered207 

and 212, in relation to the Pension Bureau, I stated last evening that 

the adherence by the House to its disagreement was a matter of form, 

and that the increase of the appropriation for that bureau was designed 

to cover the increased expense of the pensions anticipated by the passage of the Mexican pension bill. If that measure shall fail, then 

$266,400 covered by the amendments numbered 207 and 212 would 

properly be omitted-from the bill, and the Senate would then recede 

from them. 

Upon the other hand, if the Mexican pension bill passed, then the 

House would have to recede, leaving the $266,400 proposed by the Senate appropriated by th~ bill. I expressed last evening not only,what 

was the understanding on the part of the House, but what was the 

understanding on the part of the Senate. But since then, in a communication from the Commissioner of Pensions, he insists that without 

any reference whatever to whether the Mexican pension bill should 

pass or not, the increased clerical force provided by the Senate amendments is absolutely necessary to the efficiency of his bureau, and asks 

that the sums included in these amendments should be appropriated; 

that the clerical force should be provided; that the nu,mber of additional officers contemplated should be provided in the bill. .And the 

committee of conference have agreed to that item, which amounts to 

something more than I stated last evening. It amounts altogether to 

$273,400. 

A .MEMBER. What is the number of additional clerks? 

1dr. HOLMAN. The number of additional clerks is something over 

two hundred. 

Mr. CANNON. The number, I will say to my friend, is two hundred and forty-two over what the House bill provided for. 

M:r. HOLMAN. I have a statement showing the exactnumber, but 

left it in the committee-room of the Committee on Appropriations. 

Mr. Mcl\IILLIN. I desire to ask the gentleman from Indiana a question. Are there two hundred and forty-two clerks in addition to 

the two hundred and :fifty increase provided for in the House bill ? 

M:r. HOLMAN. Yes, sir. 

:Mr. McMILLIN. So it is contemplated to give nearly :five hundred 

additional clerks by the bill as amended by the Senate and proposed 

to be passed now ? 

Mr. HOL111.A.N. Yes, sir. The gentleman will remember when the 

increase of special agents was provided in the House bill there was a 

reduction I think of two hundred and thirty-six of the clerical force 

of the bureau. 

Mr. HEWITT. of Alabama. Did not the Commissioner of Pensions 

ask for that? 

Mr. HOLMAN. I will state that the bill as it came to the House 

and as it passed the House was exactly according to the then views of 

the Commissioner of Pensions. His estimates were carried out according to my present recollection-and I think I am accurate--exactly 

in the House bill in accordance with his recommendation both as 

to the reduction of the clerical force, in the main embracing the lower 

grades of clerks, and also as to the number of special agents, increasing them from two hundred and :fifty to four hundred and a to the 

appropriations r equired. The Committee on Appropriations reported 

and the House pnssed that portion of the bill exactly according to the 

estimates, without any deviation. 

Mr. :Mc~1ILLIN. Was not the statement then made that the employment of the one hundred and :fifty additional special agents would 

enable the Department to dispense '\vith these lower-grade clerks who 

were dispen ed with by the House bill? 

Mr. HOLMAN. The view then expressed, if I remember it correctly, 

was that in the then condition of the business of the Pen ion Office the 

higher grade of clerks should be made more efficient than the lower 

grade and that the employment of the one hundred and fifty special 

agents whose salaries would be much higher than the average would 

greatly facilitate the business of the office. And both in the appropriation of every dollar asked for by the Commissioner of Pen ions and 

in the action now as reported to the House by the conferenc;e the exact 

sum asked by the Commissioner has been provided for. There has beep. 

no attempt I believe to ~e any retrenchment whatever upon the sum 

required by the Commis ioner of Pensions. 

I am aware that I am occupying considerable time in this tatement, 

but I wish to state the general result of this report. The effect of these 

concessions made in the report now before the House i to increa e the 

appropriations over the House bill 5509,400; that i to say $236,000 

in connnection with the internal-revenue system and 273,400 in connection with the Pension Bureau; mah.-ring, in the whole, 500,400. 

This bill, as gentlemen will observe from the stat.ement which wa read, 

was increased by the Senate-including the $509, 400-increased by the 

Senate $1,087,424.90. TheHousehas yielded 16,484ofthatamount 

and the Senate $270,940. 

I only wish to add, Mr. Speaker, that the reason I was not able to 

sign the conference report made last evening, and the reason I am not 

able to sign the one made this evening, is on account of the large increase in the public employment in my judgment not required, and 

espedally on account of the increase of salary in various bureaus and 

Departments of the Government--the House and Senate and all the 

Departments. I do not believe, in the present condition of the employment and salaries of this Government, that these increases either in the 

number of employes or in the salaries can be justified upon any ground 

of public necessity. I will only further add that as to the Pension 

Bureau and the increase of the clerical force there, I acquiesced in the 

action of my colleagues on the conference. 

Ur. SPRINGER. Will the gentleman allow me one question? 

Mr. HOL?!'IAN. Yes, sir. 

111r. SPRINGER. Did I understand the gentleman correctly as saying that the Senate amendments increased the number of persons employed in· the collection of internal revenue over the present law? 

111r. HOLl\1A.N. No, sir; not over the pr~nt law. They correspond with the provision of the present law. That is to say, all the existing provisions remain in force, except that the number of internalrevenue special agents is reduced from thirty-five to twenty. That is 

the only concession that has been made on the pa,rt of the enate in 

connection with the internal-revenue system. .And no conce ion has 

been made in connection with the system for the collection of customs revenue. The only change made is the reduction I have mentioned in the number of special agents. 

1\fr. McMILLIN. Do I understand the gentleman to say that the 

report as agreed upon makes no reduction in the number of customs 

collection distm.cts? . 1\fr. HOLMAN. It makes no change· whatever in the law as to that. 

Mr. McMILLIN. Then the recommendation of the Secretary of the 

Treasury stating that there can be and should be a reduction and consolidation of districts goes for naught? 

Mr. HOLMAN. There is no change made in the law by the report 

of the committee of conference. 

Mr. McMILLIN. I wish that some advocate for disregarding the e recommendations of the Secretary of the Treasury would give to the 

House some reason why the House should recede from the stand it 

has taken on that subject. 

l\Ir. HOLMAN. I wish to say on that subject, that the reduction 

of the number of districts under the customs system would not necessarily reduce the number of ports of entry and delivery. We did not 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6111 

provide for the reduction of the number of ports of entry and delivery, 

but we simply reduce the number of districts down to sixty-nine, and 

conferred upon the President the power to designate the ports of entry 

and delivery. Gentlemen will see that the only method by which retrenchment could have been accomplished in any event was through 

the appropriations of mon~y hereafter to be made. 

The law now provides that the Secretary of the Treasury shall report to Congress ·each year estimates of the sums of money required to 

carry on the system for the collection of customs revenue. Therefore 

the whole subject necessarily comes before Congress when it proceeds 

to make the next annual appropriation for the expenses of that system 

of revenue. 

I attach a great deal more importance to the action of the conferees 

in regard to the internal-revenue districts. I think the number could 

have been reduced with absolute safety from eighty-six to sixty-three, 

according to the proposition of the Committee on Appropriations of this 

House. That could have been done with absolute safety, and that 

would have resulted in a saving to the Government of somewhere·between$100,000and 125,000; and the question comeshometousnow, I 

think, whetheJ; or not the House can yield that point. 

I desire to say one word more. According to the theory of the Constitution of the United States that branch of the Congress most immediately responsible to the people and more directly connected with them 

has been invested with the control of the expenditures of the public 

revenue. Revenue bills are to originate in the House of Representatives. But according to the practice of more recent years gentlemen 

will perceive that we merelyformulate a bill and send it to the Senate. 

That bill is simply the foundation upon which to build the superstructure. 

Ur. McMILLIN. And you do not know it when it comes back, do 

you? 

Mr. HOLMAN. This bill comes back to us from the Senate with 

two hundred and eighty-three amendments, every one of which, I believe-there may have been one exception, which affected the question 

of the increase or decrease of expenditures directly or indirectly-provided for an increase of the appropriations from the public Treasury. 

I think that in one instance there was a tmnsposition of some employment which would effect the reduction of the compensation of a single 

person in the public service. 

Mr. SPRINGER. That must have been a mistake. 

Mr. HOLMAN. And the question is how much the House of Representatives shall be held responsible for the appropriation of money 

from the public Treasury. While the House is conceding $876,484, the 

Senate, less responsible for the protection of the public Treasury than 

the House according to the theory of the Constitution, concedes but 

$270,940. It seems to be generally understood that as a matter of course 

the House will recede. 

By the action of the Senate there have been increases of the salaries 

of employes of the House, of the salaiies of the employes of the Senate, of the salaries of employ~s in every Department of you:r Government, with increases of the number of employes everywhere. It was 

thought that the liberal increase of officers during the last two years, 

and especially during the first session of the last Congress, would have 

rendered a further increase entirely unnecessary, for the time being at 

least. Yet I can call to mind at this moment scarcely a bureau in the 

Government in which there is not an increased number of employes, or 

increased salaries, or both. 

I see nothing in the condition of the public business, with the exception of one single Department, the Post-Office Department, that justifies either an increase of the number of officers or an increase of the 

salaries. In a few instances the House endeavored to reduce salaries 

and to equalize them, as in the case of the subtreasurer at Boston, who 

wa8 receiving a larger salary than other subtreasurers; and in other 

instances where the House thought it was entirely proper that there 

should be a moderate equalization of salaries, of course the House 

made a concession. 

}.lr. HENLEY. Will t~e gentleman permit me to ask him a q_uestion? 

Mr. HOLMAN. Certainly. 

Mr. HENLEY. The question is this: Notwithstanding this multiplication of officers and officials, is it not a matter of fact that all of the 

Departments of the Government are greatly behind in their bu8iness; 

and if so, why? That.is the fact. 

Mr. HOLUAN. I am not aware that thatisgenerallythefact; there 

may be instances where such is the case. I think it Will be frequently 

foun_d in this Government that the multiplication of offices does not 

ad vance the public business. On the contrary, the employes of the 

Government embarrass and jostle each other in the attempt to perform 

their public duties. The efficiency of the various Departments of the 

Government, according to my experience, is not found to be increased 

by an increase of salaries, and seldom by an incr8¥e of the number of 

employes. I now call the previous question. 

Mr. HANCOCK. I hope the gentleman will not call the previous 

question--

Mr. HOLMAN. Of course I yield to the gentleman from Texas all 

the time he wishes. 

Mr. HANCOCK. Mr. Speaker, I desire to occupy the time and attention of the House a very few minutes. I do so because I think the 

statement of my colleague on the committee is unfair and his deductions are not warranted by the facts. There is an increase to the 

ainount that he states, but very little of that is in consequence of salaries. In the House there is an increase of $500 to the Doorkeeper. 

In the Semite the total increase on the subject of salaries, as I now 

recollect, does not amoltnt to as much as a thousand dollars. I believe 

my statement on this point will be borne out by the facts. 

The gentleman has alluded to the great hardship of not having been 

able to equalize, as he terms it, the salaries paid to the different subtreasurers. The facts about that matter are just these: The subtreasurer at Boston, under the law as it now stands, receives a 8alary of 

$5,000. The committee which prepared this bill in the House reduced 

that salary to $4,500. The Senate insisted upon maintaining the old 

law on this point, and adopted an amendment appropriating 5,000. 

How much there is censurable or wrong about that I am not prepared 

to determine. I do not think it a very grievous matter. One side or· 

the other may be right or may be wrong. At any rate, the Senate was 

very persistent and determined, and their conferees stated a good many 

rea-sons which seemed to be with them controlling why the salary 

should not be reduced. 

The increase, then, in this bill results mainly from two causes: first 

from the amendment of the Senate restoring the law as it has existed 

with reference to the collection of internal revenue. In the bill as it 

now stands there is no change in this respect except in regard to agents, 

who are reduced from thirty-five to twenty. The Senate refused to 

reduce the number of collectors from eighty-four or eighty-six-! think 

eighty-four is the present number-to sixty-three. The increased 

sum in this particular is the difference between the payment of eightyfour men and the payment of sixty-three. Whether or not very 

nearly as much money would not be required to pa.y deputies to take 

the places of the principals whom it was proposed to dispense with is a 

matter I am not prepared to determine. It was insisted and urged 

that the economy, if any, would be very small. 

Upon that point we certainly have not a great deal to complain of; 

and I see no cause whatever to justify the position of the gentleman 

from Indiana in seeking to call upon the country to look upon this action of the House as something that is wonderfully wrong and should 

bring down censure and condemnation upon everybody who does not 

happen to agree with him. 

Upon this matter a question has been asked which I want to answer. 

The gentleman from Tennessee has asked, with at least an ex cathedra 

air, for some one to show a reason why the provision put upon the bill 

in the House consolidating the customs districts was not adhered to. 

My answer to him is, simply because it was a mere brutum fulrnen, not • 

reputable to the House that passed it. It amounted .to nothing, unless it might be the will and pleasure of the President to make the 

reduction contemplated. The only reduction made by the bill was a 

reduction of the number of collection districts, leaving the President 

at liberty to appoint as many officers as he might deem proper in the 

respective districts-=-a very vicious system of legislation, I think, and 

extremely anti-democratic; a species of legislation that should never 

be tolerated by any body of men claiming to be Democrats. 

Legislation on this subject slwuld be had. I think it a very proper 

subject for legislation; but I want to put on record mJ dissent-more 

than that I want to enter my earnest objeetion-to this system of legislation as being wrong, vicious in the extreme. It is a species of legislation that has been too long tolerated and should never be attempted 

upon an appropriation bill. Such bills are not the proper place for legislation of this character. The Constitutiondoes not contemplate that 

laws for the general government of the country should be pas ed in 

this way. -By such a system of legislation the committees having 

charge in conference of matters of this character are in a position which 

they are not entitled to occupy with reference to the influence they 

may exert upon the legislation of the country. 

By this system it is placed within the power of one branch of the 

Government to insist that certain legislation shall be adopted and to 

take advantage of an appropriation bill in order to compel the other 

branch to agree to it, without fair, open, free, untrammeled discussion. 

Such a system of legislation is in my judgment vicious in the extreme. 

The amendments of the Senate in connection with internal-revenue 

collection no doubt go a great way to swell these appropriations. The 

gentleman estimates the amount as $150,000, and probably he is right. 

But he ha omitted to state several causes which have increased, and 

necessarily I think increased, this appropriation-matters in regard to 

which probably the Senate had more light than we had in cl9nsidering 

them. 

There is a large increase in the Sixth Auditor's Office. I believe all 

agree that this is necessary. 

Mr. HOLl\f.AN. But my friend must remember we largely increased 

the force in that office in the bill as it passed the House. 

:Mr. H~COCK. We made an increase of thirty-seven clerks-exactly that number and no more. , Mr. HOLMAN. That is true. Mr. HANCOCK. The Sixth Auditor came before the committee time 
6112 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

and again and proposed that we should examine his office and convince 

ourselves of the impossibility of keeping up the business of the office 

properly without the additional assistance that he asked. Should not 

the business of that office be kept up? Is it not the interest of the 

country that it should be? I leave gentlemen to answer that question 

for themselves. 

Then there is the Patent Office, in which there is a. large increase. I 

am not much more favorably disposed toward that office than is my 

colleague on the committee. I think it probable a. great deal of wrong 

is. perpetrated there upon the great masses of the people. Nor is that 

sufficiently answered by the reply that it brings in a large revenue. It 

has grown to immense proportions, far in ad vance of the anticipation of 

any one. But it is there and the popular will seems to desire to continue it, and we should make adequate provision for the discharge of 

the duties devolved on that bureau. 

There is the Indian Bureau, where there has been a considerable increase, which is urged as a necessity, and a good portion of it growing 

out of a change of policy in reference to the education of the Indians. 

I do not approve of that. I can not have my way about these things 

or I would change them. I have had some little experience, and of 

course some little knowledge of the policy pursued by the Government 

toward the Indians. 

I believe you will agree with me that from the landing ofthe Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock and the landing ofthe:fi.rstsettlersofVirginia 

at the mouth of the James River up to the present time it has been an 

unrelieved failure. There has never yet been a savage race civilized 

except through one channE:l, and that is the one of labor. It is the 

policy which has heen pursued by the Spaniards who have settled south 

ofus on this continent, and they have succeeded in making useful citizens out of a good many of them. There are now those enjoying the 

highest positions in their society who have not a drop of European 

blood in their veins. President Juarez himself was a full-blooded Indian, the chief-jus tic~ is another, and the president elected in August is 

deeply tinctured 'vith Indian blood. 

But you have adopted a policy. You say you must get the Indians 

together and educate and Christianize them. It is squandering a great 

deal of money, but at the same time it is furnishing remunerative positions to a number of meritorious persons I suppose. [Laughter.] 

These appropriations come in this way. 

Then there is the Pension Office. The gentleman is much more in 

favor of pensions than I am; but that, too, has become the subject of 

sensational legislation, and no one can say whether Republican or Democrat has the ascendancy. They are as nearly alike on that subject as 

I have ever seen men in my life. All that is necessary is to say ''pension" and pension it is, and so on indiscriminately. 

I may not have another opportunity, and I wish to speak out my 

feelings on this subject. · I say there has been the grossest injustice to 

the people of the United States. I have no objection to vote a pension 

to an invalid soldier, butwill votefor it as cheerfully as another. But 

this profuse and profligate waste of public money by pensioning on 

every flimsy pretense is an act of injustice which can not fail to be appreciated by any one who will dispassionately look at it. 

We have appropriated nearly $86,000,000 of money for this purpose; 

more than double the entire annual expense of the Government from 

1840 to 1850. Another cycle will increase that to $100,000,000, and 

may perchance -to $150,000,000 of public property in order to gratify 

aspirations of deserving statesmen. [Laughter.] I do not believe the 

gentleman from Indiana will get up and sa-y, so far as we have provided the necessary force to issue pensions and pensions and pensions to 

go into his district, that it has been squandering so much money for that 

purpose. 

I ~hink, Mr. Speaker, that the report of the committee should be accepted. It is the best we could do; and I do not think we have done 

anything more than respond to the exigencies of different branches of 

the Government that demanded this change. There is where the 

money has gone, except the difference between collecting internal reve- nue by the mode proposed by the Senate and that by the House. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I yield five minutes to the member for Tennessee 

[Mr. McMILLIN). 

Mr. McMILLIN. Mr. Speaker, my distinguished friend from Texas 

is in error as to the "airs" with which I made the inquiries I addressed to him; at least I did not intend to assume any ''ex cathedra 

airs." 

The gentleman complains-and let us examine into his consistencythat the method of legislating upon appropriation bills was not contemplated by the Constitution and is vicious. 

Following his argument to its legitimate conclusion and comparing 

his action with it, what do you find? It is highly constitutional, altogether commendable, a:lld entirely proper to increase the number of officers by an appropriation bill and to increase their salaries, but it is quite 

the contrary. to decrease the number or their salaries. He justifies the 

increase of officers, he justifies the increase of their salaries on an appropriation bill, but his virtuous and patriotic soul is wrought up when 

you come to diminish either the number or reduce the salaries. I have 

a high regard for the gentleman. He is my friend, and I take pride in 

the fri~ndship. 

Mr. HANCOCK. Let me interrupt the gentleman by saying that I 

did not justify or condemn. 

Mr. McMILLIN. Well, the gentleman makes that explanation. I 

understood him as holding to the position that the Constitution never 

contemplated anything of the kind; and I undertake to say now that he 

is the :first lawyer of his reputation who ever asserted the opinion that 

it was not constitutional to legislate upon an appropriation bill. 

But what did the House bill propose? It proposed to do simply 

what the Secretaries of the Trea-sury for ten long years, at least, had 

said ought to be done, that is, to diminish thenumberofthese customs 

collection distr~cts. We come forward to do the work; and yet when 

we undertake to do it the House, of which he is a member, is slapped 

in the face by him and told it is unconstitutional to proceed in that 

way. It is constitutional, according to the gentleman, to raise a salary, 

but not constitutional to get rid of a thousand useless officers whose services may be dispensed with-four hundred in connection with the collection of customs duties-and between six hundred and a thousand 

in the internal-revenue service. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Will the gentleman pardon me for interrupting him? Suppose a bill had been introduced here in reference 

to these custom. collectors, what committee would it have gone to? 

Would it not have been the Committee on Ways and Means? 

Mr. McMILLIN. It would probably have gone to the Committee 

on Ways and Means. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. That committee then would have had 

jurisdiction, would it not? 

- Mr. Mcl\IILLIN. Yes, sir; I admit your case in the broadest sense, 

but there is also a rule which the gentleman should remember that 

makes it legitimate to act on an appropriation bill where you diminish 

the amount of the appropriation or decrease the salaries, and where that 

a{!tion is in the direction of economy there is no man who will deny 

that it is proper and legitimate. 

Mr. Speaker, the amendments of the Senate involved here present a 

reduction of expenditures in the collection and internal revenue and 

customs duties by more than $1,000,000. The Hou.Se, as I intimated 

before, by this action gets rid of more than 1,000 officers, probably as 

many as a thousand in the internal-revenue service alone. I think it 

is eminently proper to muster out of the service some of the large number of internal-revenue officerswho have swarmed over the country for 

long years past, and I trust that this House will stand by its action and 

never agree to abandon it. The House has already held that it was 

eminently proper by several votes, and I hope it will not abandon the 

contest. 

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has expired. 

Mr. HANCOCK. I would like to correct one expression of the gentleman. I said that it was not contemplated by the Constitution. 

Mr. McMILLIN. Very well; the gentleman can have the benefit 

of his statement. . 

Mr. HOLMAN. I yield five minutes to the gentleman from North 

Carolina [Mr. Cox]. 

Mr. COX, of North Carolina. l\lr. Speaker, there is a question involved in this controversy of the gravest importance, and I trust the 

House will not suffer the bill to pass without giving it the most careful consideration. It is the amendment of the Senate which proposes 

to give to certain Senators clerks, and which is tantamount to an increase of their own salaries to the extent of 1,000 each. 

While I recognize the entire independence of the two Houses and 

the propriety of not too critically scanning the internal workings of 

each other, yet when measures are proposed which in their effect tend 

to impair that' perfect equality which is contemplated by the Constitution, we can not too carefully scrutinize them. It is not the amount 

involved which gives this proposition its importance, but the danger 

that.underlies the concession of a principle which establishes a troublesome precedent. 

As is well kn9wn, there are three co-ordinate departments of the 

Government, the legislative, the executive, and judicial. Each department is supreme in its own sphere, and the preservation of our liberties in a great measure depends upon a due recognition of this fact. 

The legislative department consists of a Senate and House of Representatives, whose rights and duties are defined by the Constitution. 

All bills raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives, 

to whom the people have confided the purse-strings of the nation, it 

being the more popular branch and also more directly amenable to them. 

The question in regard to fixing the pay of the employes of the Senate 

is one which must be regulated by law, and as no law can be enacted 

except by the concurrence of both branches of Congress, it musb follow 

such matters should be approved by each. It is true that great disparity 

exists between the p;:ty of the employes of the Senate and of the House, 

but it is insisted such should not be the case. This inequality is of comparatively recent origin, and has led to frequent efforts on the part of this House to secure an equitable readjustment, but no satisfactory arrangement has been arrived at. It is not 

insisted that the duties of the employes of the Senate are more exacting 

and di:fficul t than those of the House, and as their compensation is about 

20 per cent. higher, the effect is to create discontent. The only suggestion 

proposed by Senators for equalizing the salaries is that we should in-
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSEo 6113 

crease the compensation of our employes inasmuch as this inequa1ity was 

cau ed by the reductions at our end of the Capitol. The gentleman from 

illinois [Mr. C.Al\~O:N] stated in his remarks on this amendment that 

the payment of thirteen months' salacy for twelve months' service-a 

species ofliberality commendable for its disinterestedness-originated 

from a desire to equalize the salaries of the two Houses. But it is 

known that the Senate, still keeping in advance, has likewise given 

their employes an extra month's pay. In this race who pays for the 

sport? The exclusive right of the Senate to regulate the salaries of its 

employes was submitted to rather than prolong an unending controversy; 

but to show in what light this prerogative was viewed by the Senate 

even "so recently as in the Forty-sixth Congress, I in"'\ite your attention to the remarks made bySenatorHouston, fromAlabama, and Senator BECK, from Kentucky, when the subject was then under discussion. 

Mr. HousTON. Mr. President, I suppose the compensation of employes is a matter of controversy between the two Houses that ought in some way or other t-o be adjusted so as to relieve the Houses of that difficulty and of that trouble. • The Senator from Kentucky speaks of the House of Representatives regulating the pay of its own employes and the number of its employes, and of the Senate 

doing the same as to its. Now, that really in legal parlance can not be done. If we can convince the House that we need a certain number of employes at a certain compensation, then the House will accede to it. If the House can so convince the Senate, then the Senate ought to agree with the House. But the 

idea that each House can regulate the number and pay of its own employes without the concurrence of the other House I think is utterly untenable. If we have a judgment upon that subject and the House agree with us, then our judg- ment ought to be carried out. The compensation allowed to the employe. of 

the two Houses is according to law. A law to be passed must have the assent of both Houses of Congress; and when we have such a law it is exceedingly unfortunate that trouble should exist between the two Houses and that one should compensate its employes higher than the other. Mr. BECK. All I desire to say is that the committee had not time to go into the matter of regulating the compensation of employes now. When the regular 

session meets it is to be hoped that the difficulty that exists between the Houses will be adjusted and arranged. For the time being we thought the course we pursued the only safe thing to do, with new officers attheheadoftheemployes of the Senate, with no absolute information as to whether the rule we followed 

is right or whethe-r it is wrong, and the subject being now carefully considered 

by a committee of this body, and for the present we did not deem that this was the proper time to &O into the matter. 

* * * • * * * Mr. HousTON. No v,sir, in my judgmenttheSenatehasnomore right to establish the pay of its ow u officers than it has to establish the compensation of the offi- cers of the House. '.fhe same claim of power thatwonld enable the Senate to say what its employes should receive would result in givingto the Senate the 

power to say what the employes of the House should receive. We must act on such a subject by a law, and it being a law the twoHousesoughtt-o act together and ought to agree upon omething just to the employes of both, and thereby 

these difficulties in the future will be obviated. There being simply one com- mittee now looking into the matter, I do not think that meets the difficulty, and I therefore shall vote against the amendment. 

From this Senatorial discussion it will be seen it was not contended 

that the Se»ate could alone regulate the compensation of its employes 

without theconcurrence.ofthe House. Senator Houston boldly maintains that "it can not be done;" while Senator BECK apologized for 

not adjusting the salaries on the plea. that there was not sufficient time 

in a short session; and an examination of the discussion, which was 

quite protracted, fails to show that any Senator then denied the position of the Senator from Alabama. It is fair to state, however, some of 

the Senators then insisted that on the score of expediency it was better 

for each House to regulate these matters for itself. But when an easement is once enjoyed, I care not how acquired, plausible reasons will 

ever be found by strong men for its continuance; for, like the statute of 

limitations, when it once begins to run all creation can not stop it. 

The propositioN now before the HoOBe goes a bow-shot farther than 

the question of regulating the number and compensation of the employes of the two Houses independently of each other, and is far more 

objectionabk To employ a clerk at a salary of 1,000 is virtually to 

increase a Senator's salary to that amount, and when the precedent 

is once established that by their own volition Senators can increase 

their salaries, though called by another name, without the concurrence 

' 'bOf this House, what becomes of the doctrine clearly set forth in the Constitution that the compensation of Congressmen shall be regulated by 

law? The members of this House can not avoid their responsibility 

by throwing it upon the Senators when through their non-action or complaisance they permit this encroachment to be made. The CoRStitution 

con templates the perfect equality of the two bodies as to pay as well as 

to rank, but by this action the salary of a Senator is raised to $6,000, 

while that of a member of this body remains at 5,000. 

~ow, I yield to no one in respect for the distinguished body at the 

other end of the Capitol, many of whose members I am gratified to call 

my friends, and far be it from me to impugn their motives. even though 

called on to criticise their acts. I wish to emphasize the fact that all 

our relations should be characterized by the utmost harmony and even knightly courtesy, but in order to accomplish this end and preserve 

thorough amity it is ipdispensable that the rights and prerogatives of 

the members of each House should be jealously guarded and respected, 

that there should be no invasion on our part of the prerogatives of the 

Senate, and we should permit no encroachment on their part upon our rights, even when a , in this instance, they are believed to be unintentional. Upon the character 9f the labors and responsibilities of the 

members of each House we will not dwell, as any observations on so delicate a subject might be considered invidious. 

It is not improper, however, to remark that a large amount of the 

XV--383 

business imposed upon all of us arises from a neglect to provide proper 

tribunals upon which much of the private business and Department 

work should devolve. Unless reforms begin at home and Senators discontinue having their private clerks paid out of the Treasury, we may 

reasonably expect that it will not be long before the contagion will 

spread to members of this House. I know that I represent a generous 

and liberal constituency, who are perfectly willing to grant every facility to members of both Houses in the discharge of their laborious public duties; but at the same time I apprehend they will agree with 

me that the tendency to multiply offices and increase needless expenses 

in the administration of public affairs is a growing evil. For the nation is being divided rapidly into two classes, consisting of office-holders and pen..<;ioners on one side, with tax-payers and toilers on the other. 

In the early part of this session I took occasion to call attention to 

the advancing strides toward extravagance in the House, which in 

in 1876- 77, with two hundred and ninety-three members, had one 

hundred and ninety-one employes, with an expenditure of 203,344, 

while in 1 3-'84, with the same number of members, the employes 

had increased to two hundred and fifty-four, with an expenditure of 

310,631; and now, through no spirit of discourtesy or hypercriticism, 

I call attentiontothe factthatinl 73-' 74, with se>enty-four Senators; 

theexpenses of the Senate were 153,744, while in 1 3-'84, with se>-

enty-six Senators, the expenses were $305,593. I have been unable to 

obtain the total number of employes prior to 1878-'79. In that ye::tr, 

with the same .number of Senators as at present, the number of employes was one hundr€d and seventy-eight, while, if this amendment 

shall be accepted, their number will be two hundred and twenty-fh·e, 

or about three employes to each Senator. Yet while neither good taste 

nor duty may warrant this House in an attempt to dictate what force 

should be employed by the Senate, still we should insist that it must 

be employed according to law, and we should never surrender a principle which affixes an inferiority even in salaries upon the members of 

this House. Experience has shown that the dispo ition of the Senate 

to propose amendments in the way of large appropriations to bills originating in this House is rapidly destroying the very spirit of the Constitution. So much I feel it my duty to say in explanation of my oppo ition t9 concurring in the report submitted by the committee. 

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from North Carolina 

has expired. The gentlemen from Indiana has five minutes remaining. 

• 1\Ir. HOLMAN. I shall yield thattimetothegentlemanfromNorth 

Carolina if he wishes it. 

Mr. COX, of North Carolina. I do not desire to occupy more time. 

:Mr. CANNON. I desire to say a word. 

1\lr. HOLMA..1\. I yield the five minutes to the gentleman from Illinois [1\Ir. CANKOK]. 

l\ir. CAN~ON. I desire to say a word as to the increase of force in 

the Pension Office referred to by the gentleman from Indiana. The 

House bill as it pas ed dropped two hundred and eighty-five clerks and 

copyists in the Pension Office. The Senate amendment-s as agreed to 

by this conference committee restored all of those two hundred and 

eighty-fi>e people except forty-three; so that the force in the Pension 

Office proper by this bill as amended by the conference report is fortythree less than the force now employed. 

The gentleman from Tennessee [1\Ir. McMILLIN] spoke of the one 

hundred and fifty special agents that were provided for in this bill by 

the House provision which recei>ed the assent of the gentleman from 

Indiana f)\Ir. HoLMAN], as well as of the House. There is such an 

increase. But those agents are for duty not in the Pension Office proper, 

but all over the United States; being rendered absolutely necessary to 

bring up the in>estigation of the different pension claims which are 

now about one year behind, and we are all receiving great complaints 

as to that. 

I did suppose before to-day that thisforceoftwo hundred and eightyfive clerks and copyists who have been receiving small pay need not be 

appropriated for. But the Commissioner of Pensions and the SecretarY 

of the Interior said to the committee, and have made a statement in 

writing, which I hold in my hand that owing to a recent decision of 

the Secretary of the Interior and the changed condition of the business 

of the office ince the Commissioner of Pensions submitted his annual 

report to Congress in December last, it wa.s necessary, if this work was 

to be promptly and properly done, that the Senate amendments should 

be agreed to. · 

Mr. WILLIS. What changed condition of the business does the 

gentleman refer to ? 

1\Ir. CAN~O~. There is a change in consequence of the rulings of 

the Secretary of the Interior touching the allowance of pensions in 

certain classes of claims. This caused a changed condition of business 

in the Pensfon Office. 

Now, I understood my friend from Indiana to say-and I understand 

that to be the fact if he did not say it-that he agrees to the action of 

the Holise conferees touching the concurrence in the enate amendments as to this force in the Pension Office. 

Mr. HOLl\1AN. I so stated. 

Mr. CAN~ON. Yes, sir; so I understood the gentleman. Now I 

want to call the attention of the House to the fact that if it ·had not 

been for the agreement as to this force in ·the Pension Office, then the 
6114 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

million of dollars of increase placed upon this bill by the Senate would 

have been substantially divided into two parts, the House yielding 

substantially half and the Senate half. But when you take 273,400 

and add it to what the House had already conceded, of course it swelled 

the amount. I think it just and proper that should be stated. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. CANNON. I will take the floor in my own right just to COIIlplete a statement or two, and will not weary the Honse. 

As to the increases of salaries that my friend from Indiana spoke of, 

I have not much to say. They have been referred to by the gentleman from Texas [Mr. HANCOCK]. So far as the substance is concerned 

in regard to this bill, the allegation deals not in fact, but is based on 

imagination only. A few salaries have been slightly increased; a few 

salaries have been slightly decreased; it is about equal. There is one 

·increase of salary in the report made yesterday of $500 to the medical 

referee, from ti2,500 to $3,000, Dr. Hood being the officer. 

A MEMBER. And well deserved. 

Mr. CANNON. In my opinion also, well deserved. I do not desire 

to say anything about that. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I do not think any salaries were decreased. 

Mr. CANNON. Oh, yes; some salaries were decreased in one of the 

subtreasuries and also in one of the mints. 

Nowthen-- [Criesof"Vote!" "Vote!"] 

If my friends really feel we ought now to have a vote I will yield. 

I do not want to tire the House. But they had fifty-five minutes on 

the other side, and it occurred to me that eight minutes-and I will 

try not to occupy more than that altogether-was not an undue time 

for me to take. 

Now, my friend from Indiana, whose knowledge and ability I fully 

appreciate, has a pretty thorough acquaintance with the civil service 

of this Government. He and I agree in many particulars. In some 

we do not agree. For instance, my friend would 1·egulate many things 

under the law by withholding appropriations as a matter of policy. In 

the Second Auditor's Office, for instance; claims of soldiers for pay and 

various other claims are regulated. He thinks it would not be wise to 

hasten that business, because there is a large accumulation of claims 

that.ought not to be granted . . I agree that is true. But the deficiency 

of clerical force hinders the nieritori9us business as well. 

In regard to the Land Office my friend concedes, and it may be true, 

that the land laws needregnlation and amendment. Very well; if so; 

let us amend the land laws. But he would limit the operation of those 

land laws, and in my opinion to the detriment of the settler and pioneer who goes West, by limiting the force in the Land Office so as to 

throw their work behind. Now, I do not concur with him in that, and 

I do not believe that the majority of the members on either side of this 

House will agree with him. Yet I do not doubt his perfect sincerity. 

I want to say that_ in perfect good faith since I have been upon the 

Committee on Appropriations, in the last Congress and in this, I have 

not willingly given my assent to any proposition unless I believed it was 

for the public weal. And I want to say here and now that the wonderful growth in population, in enterprise, and in prosperity of this 

grea-t Anglo-American race, as it reaches out and spreads over the continent, demands at the hands of those who control the purse-strings of 

the Government that they make such ample and prompt appropriations 

as will secure the performance of the business of that Government 

which that race supports, and which· in tum should guarantee to the 

people proper protection and support. [Applause.] 

I believe ·thatthis conferenceteportshould be adopted. It is not all 

that I would have it. If I had had mywayabout itand had been free 

in the matter, I would have receded still further from the disagreement 

to the Senate amendments. But, after all, in conference the two branches 

of the Legislature must give and take. If we could have it all our own 

way, then there would be no need of a Senate. If the Senate could 

have it all their own way, then there would be no need of a f!ouse. 

Legislation is wisely lodged in the co-ordinate branches of Congress, 

the House and the Senate, and in the Executive. In the very nature 

of things legislation means compromise. And I believe that upon this 

bill and upon other bills, more especially upon this bill, the compromises have been wise. 

The report of the committee of conference was then adopted. 

Mr. HANCOCK moved to reconsider the vote by which the report of 

the committee of coJl{erence was agreed to; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

llr. PERKINS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the committee had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: A bill (H. R. 875) granting a pension toP. W. Bradbury; 

A bill (H. R. 2574) granting a pension to Rosella Pegg; 

.A bill (H. R. 4180) granting an increase of pension to Rowland Ward; 

and 

A bill (H. R. 5088) for the relief of Magdalena Cook. 

LEGISLATIVE, ETC., APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I move that the House further insist upon its disagreement to the Senate amendments numbered 21, 24, and 25 to the 

bill making appropriations for the legislative, executive, and judicial 

expenses of the Government for the fiscal year ending J nne 30, 1885, 

and for other purposes. 

Mr. HANCOCK. And I now move that the House recede from its 

disagreement to the Senate amendments and agree to the same. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I call the previous question on both motions. 

l\1r. KASSON. Let the amendments be read. 

The SPEAKER. They will be read, of course. 

The previous question was ordered. 

The amendment of the Senate numbered 21 was read, as follows: 

On page 5, after the words" for miscellaneous items exclusive of la.bor,•rstrike 'out " lO,(X)()" and insert " $34,000." 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I understand that is the amendment 

which gives the Senate an increased contingent fund. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Let the other amendments be also read. 

The amendment of the Se!h'l>te numbered 24 was read, as follows: 

On page 5, in line 25, strike out" $62,770" and insert" $76,770." 

Mr. HOLMAN. That is merely a change of the total. 

The amendment of the Senate numbered 25 was read, as follows: 

Strike out these words: "Provided, That no part of the money appropriated by this act shall be expended for clerical services for any Senat<>r, Representative, or Delegate in Congress." 

The SPEAKER. Under the rules of the House thirty minutes areallowed for debate, :fifeeen minutes on each side. The gentleman from 

Texas [1\Ir. H.A.KcocK] on the one side and the gentleman from Indiana 

[Mr. HoLMAN] on the other will be recognized to control the time for 

debate. 

Many MEMBERS. Vote ! Vote! 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I ask the gentleman from ·Texas [l\fr_ 

HANCOCK] to yield to me. 

Mr. HANCOCK. I will yield five minutes to the gentleman. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I do not think I shall occupy the fiveminutes, but I desire to be heard on one amendment. In addition to. 

what the gentleman from North Carolina [l\Ir. Cox] has said in opposition to this increase of the salaries of Senators I desire to call the attention of memberS of this Forty-eighth Congress to the debates which 

will be found upon pages 2100 to 2103 of volume 108 of the Globefor l\Iarch 3, 1873. 

At that time the leading members on both sides of this House, in 

both branches of the Forty-third Congress, after the labor of the term 

for which they were elected was through, appropriated to each Senatorand member back pay by an increase of their salaries from '5, 000 to, 

7,500 a year. That action by the Forty-third Congress was condemned 

and the salary-grabbers repudiated by the people at the polls. Iremember that in my own State of. Kentucky the Legislature passed resolutions condemning every Kentucky member of Congress who voted 

for or who dodged the vote but took that increase of salary. 

ltfr. DAVIS, of Illinois. Did not Massachusetts elect Ben. Bntle1~ 

governor after that? 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. And did not a subsequent Kentucky 

Legislature, contrary to public opinion, re-elect one of those ''salarygrabbers" to the United StatesSenate? AnddidnotthisHouse, when 

itbecameDemocratic,in theForty-fourth, theE'orty-:fifth, and the Fortysixth Congress, elect as its Clerk one of those'' salary-grabbers?'' nch 

things only go to show, as has been shown on this floor in regard to, 

land grabbing, which now demands the forfeiture of unearned land 

grants, that in reference to these matters no one party can stand up 

and say that it is less guilty than the other. It has so happened that 

the leaders on both sides in the two branches of Congress, when there 

wasany plundering of the Treasury to be done, have agreed upon that 

matter. Both parties have unscrupulous adherents, and both parties. 

are equally guilty. 

Now, the amount in question in this case is small; but the propo· 

sition for this small increase of allowance to Senators is what is known 

in the backwoods as an" entering-wedge" that is driven into the railcut preparatory .for the glut which is to split the log open. The proposition is that we shall vote to the Senate a contingent fund from which 

to hire private secretarie , not for all Sena.tors~ but for those who are 

so unfortunate, perchance, as not to have already a secretary-acting 

as a committee clerk, but possibly doing the personal business of the 

chairman also. 

:More than that. The Senate not only uses the power it has under 

the Constitution to advise and consent to nominations by the Pre ident, but it lays its hands upon the Honse of Representatives and appoints a Senator's son and Senator's brother to the subordinate po itions of this House. 

In the Forty-fourth Congress: as I remember very well, the most intelligent colored man in this Capitol was removed by the Democratic 

Clerk of the Honse from his position in the library of the Honse; but 

when it was ascertained that a Democrat competent to perform the 

duties could not be found, that colored man was, on motion of the gentlemanfromlndiana[Mr. HouiAN], reappointed to his place. But this 

Honse has gone a step farther and put a kinsman, a brother, as !understand, of a Democratic Senator in the place of that colored man, the 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6115 

latter being retained in a. subordinate position possibly in order to " coach" the other. I am constrained to believe that the duties of the 

position were never better performed than in the Forty-fourth Congress 

when the place was held by this colored man, who by virtue of long 

service and fn.ithful performance of duties for which he was so well fitted should never have been removed. 

T?e SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Kentucky has 

expued. 

· Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. This is a step in the direction of additional salaries. [Cries of " Regular order ! "] · 

The SPEAKER. The first question is upon the motion of the gentleman from Texas [Mr. HA 'COCK] that the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate and agree to the same. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I feel obliged to ask for the yeas and nays on this 

question. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Let us have the yeas and nays. We 

have plenty of time. We are obliged to wait for the conference reports 

to come in. · 

A MEMBER. It is now half past 1 o'clock. 

Mr. WHITE, _of Kentucky. There is no necessity for hurrying. 

There is a great principle involved in this case. 

The question being taken on ordering the yeas and nays, there were- ayes 24, noes 90. 

1tfr. LONG. I call for tellers on ordering the y-eas and nays. 

Tellers were ordered ; and Mr. LoNG and Mr. HOLMAN were appointed. . The House again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 41; more than one-fifth of the last vote. 

So the yeas and nays were ordered. 

The question was taken; and there were-yeas 72, nays 93, not ·voting 159; as follows: · 

.Adams, G. E. Atkinson, 

Bayne, 

Belford, 

. Boutelle, 

Breckinridge, 

Brewer, J. H. Broadhead, 

Calkins, 

Cutcheon, 

Davis, G. R. 

Davis, R.T. Dibble, 

Ellis, 

Evans,I.N. 

Ferrell, 

Funston, 

Garrison, 

Adams,J.J. 

Alexander, 

Ba.gley, 

Bennett, 

Blount, 

Brewer, F. B. Browne, T. M. 

Brown, W. W. Buchanan, 

Budd, 

Burnes, Caldwell, 

Cannon, 

Carletpn; 

Cassidy, 

Clay, 

Cosgrove, 

Cox,W.R. Crisp, Culberson, D. B. 

Dargan, 

Dowd, 

Eaton, 

Finerty, 

Aiken, 

Anderson, 

Arnot, 

Ballentine, 

Barbour, 

Barksdale, 

Barr, 

Beach, 

Belmont, 

Bingham, 

Bisbee, 

Blackburn, 

Blanchard, 

Bland, 

Bowen, 

Boyle, 

Brainerd, 

Brei tung, 

Brumm, 

Buckner, 

Burleigh, 

Cabell, 

Campbell, Felix 

Campbell, J. M. Campbell,J.E. Candler, 

YE.AS-:-72 . 

George, 

Goff, 

Grayes, 

Greenleaf, 

Hancock, 

Hatch, H. H. Hemphill, 

Henderson, T. J. Henley, 

Hepburn, 

Hewitt,G.W. 

IDscock, 

Horr, 

Houseman, 

Howey, 

Hunt, 

James, 

Jeffords, 

Johnson, 

Kea.n, 

Lacey, 

Libbey, 

Lore, 

Lyman, 

McCoid, 

'McCormick, 

Mitchell, 

Morrill, 

Muldrow, 

Ochiltree, 

O'Neill, Charles 

O'Neill,J.J. 

Parker, 

Perkins, 

Peters, 

Potter, 

N.AYB-93. 

Follett, Neece, .Foran, Nutting, 

Forrley, O'Hara, 

Gibson, Pierce, 

Glascock, Pusey, Guenther, Randall, 

Halsell, Ray~G. W. Hatch, W. H. Reea, 

Herbert, Reese, 

Hoblitzell, Rockwell, 

Holman, Rogers,J.H. 

Jones, B. W. Seney, 

Jones,J. H. Seymour, 

Jordan, Smalls, 

Kleiner, Springer, 

Laird Stephenson, Lanh~m, Stewart, Charles 

Lawrence, Strait, Le Fevre, Struble, 

Lovering, Sumner, D. H. Lowry, Taylor,J.D. 

Mc:Mil.lin, Taylor, J. M. 

Maybury, Tillman, 

1\Iiller,J. F. Townshend, 

NOT VOTING-159. 

Chace, Ellwood, 

Chalmers, English, 

Clardy, Ermentrout, 

Clements, Everhart, 

Cobb, Evins,J.H. 

Collins, Fiedler, 

Connolly, Findlay, 

Converse, Fyan, 

Cook Geddes, Covi~gton, Green, Cox, S. S. Hammond, 

Culbertson, W. W. Hanback, 

Cullen, . Hardeman, 

Curtin, Hardy, 

Davidson, Harmer, 

Davis, L.H. Hart, 

Deuster, Haynes, 

Dibrell, Henderson, D. B. 

Dingley, HiH~llwitt, .A. S. 

Dockery, 

Dorsheimer, Hitt: 

Duncan, Holmes, 

Dunham Holton, 

Dunn, Hooper, 

Eldredge, Hopkins, Elliott, Honk, 

Pric.e, Ranney, 

Robinson, J. S. 

Rosecrans, 

R-owell, 

Shelley, 

Skinner,C.R. 

Spooner, 

Steele, 

Stewart, J. W. Sumner, C. A. 

Thomas, 

Valentine, 

Vance, 

Wadsworth, 

White, Milo 

Whlting, 

Woodward. 

Turner, H. G. 

Turner, Oscar Van Alstyne, Van Eaton, . Wallace, 

Warner, Richard 

Washburn, 

Weaver, 

Wellborn, 

Weller, 

White, J.D. Williams, 

Willis, 

Wilson, James Wilson, W. L. Winans, E. B. Winans, John 

Wolford, 

Wood, 

Yaple, 

York. 

Hurd, 

Hutchins, 

Jones,J.K. 

Jones,J.T. 

Kasson, 

Keifer, 

Kelley, 

Kellogg, 

Ketcham, 

King, 

Lamb, 

Lewis, 

Long, 

McAdoo, 

1\IcComas, 

Matson, 

Millard. 

l\Iiller, S. H. 

Milliken, 

Mills, 

l\Ioney, 

Morgan, 

l\Iorrison. 

Morse, · Moulton, 

Muller, 

Murphy, Poland, Shaw, 

Murray, Post, Singleton, Mutchler, Pryor, Skinner,T.G. 

Nelson, Rankin Slocum, 

Nicholls, Ray, O~ian S_mith, 

Oates, Reagan, Snyder, 

O'Ferrall, Rice, Spriggs, 

Paige, Riggs, Stevens, 

Patton, Robertson, Stockslager, Payne, R-obinson, W. E. Stone, 

Payson, Rogers, W. F. Storm, 

Peel1 Russell, Talbott, 

Pettibone, Ryan, Taylor, E. B. Phelps, Scales, Thompson, 

Throckmorton, 

Tucker, 

Tully, 

'Vait, 

Wakefield, 

Ward, 

Warner,A.J. 

Wemple, 

Wilkins, 

Wise, G. D. WisetJ.S. 

W ortnington 

Young. 

So the House refused to recede from its disagreement. 

The following additional pairs were announced: 

Mr. PRYOR with Mr. KASSON, until further notice. 

Mr. GEORGE D. WISE with Mr. SPOO:ID:R, for the rest of the day. 

Mr. BARKSDALE with Mr. MCCOMAS, for the rest of the day. 

The vote was then announced 118 above recorded. 

1\Ir. CALKINS. I do not know whether when Mr. HUTCHINS went 

away he understood I was to vote in case there was not a quorum. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman had better let . his vote stand, as there is barely a quorum. . Mr. HOLMAN. I am, as it were, in charge of the pair of the gentleman from New York [Mr. HUTCHINS], and I will relieve the gentleman from Indiana from any scruples about letting his vote stand. 

Mr. CALKINS. Very well. . 

Ur. HoLMAN's motion that the House still further insist on its disa=" 

greement to the Senate amendments was agreed to. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I move that the Hous.e further insist on its disagreement and ask for a fluther conference between the two Houses. 

The motion was agreed to; and the Speaker appointed as managers 

of said conference on the part of the House Mr. HoLMAN, 1tfr. HANCOCK, a.nd Mr. C.Al-."'"NON. 

FORTIFICATION BILL. 

Mr. RANDALL. I submit a privileged report. 

The Clerk 1·ead as follows: 

The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 7440) making appropriations for 

.fortifications and other works of defense, and for the armament thereof for the 

fiscal year ending J uue 30, 1885, and for other purposes, having met, aRer full 

and free conference have agreed to recommend and do recommend to their re- spective Houses as follows: 

That the Senate recede from its amendments numbered 9 and 10. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 6 and 7, and agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate ~umbered 1, 2, and 3, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In heu of the amended paragraph insert the follo~ing: 

"For the purchase of machine-guns of the latest improvement, $20,000. 

"For .the armament of seacoast fortifications, including the manufacture and 

conversion. of h.eavy guns and carriages, projectiles, fuses,_ powder, and implemen!S, the1r tnal ~nd proof, and all necessary expenses mcident thereto, includmg compensatiOn of draughtsmen on gun construction while employed in 

the Ordnance Bureau, $400,000, and not exceeding 815,000 thereof may be used 

for the expensesof experiments in the use of dynamite or other high explosive projectiles." 

And the Senate agree to the sa-me. That the House recede from its disaiP:eement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 4, and agree to the sa.me w1th an amendment as follows: Strike out from s11.id amendment the following words: "Said sum to be expended under 

the direction of the Secretary of War;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 5, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the matter proposed to be stricken out and the matter proposed to be inserted 

by said amendm.ent insert the following: "And to make the same known to manufacturers of ordnance on their application, and to report the same to Con- gress at its next session for its approval;." and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 8, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows : In lieu of the matter proposed to be stricken out by said ameud,ment insert the following: 

."SEC. 2. Tho.t hereafter a.ll rifle~ cannon of any particular material, caliber, or. kind, made at the cost of the Urnted States, shall be publicly subjected to the proper test, including such rapid firing as alike gun would be likely to be subJected to in actual battle, for the determination of the endurance of the same to the satisfaction of the President of the United States or such persons as he rda_y 

select; an~ he~ hereby authorized t'? select not t-o exceed five persons, who 

shall be skilled m such matters; and if such guru; shall not prove satisfa-ctory 

they shall not be put to use in the Government service." ' .And the Senate agree to the same. 

The report was concurred in. 

SAMUEL J. RANDALL, 

WILLIAM H. FORNEY, J. WARREN KEIFER, 

Managers on the part of the House. 

JOHN A. LOGAN, 

H.L.DAWES, 

F. 1\I. COCKRELL, 

Managers on the part of the Senate. 

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read the statement accompanying 

the report. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The managers on the part of the House of the conference on the disagreeing 

':otes ?fthe two Houses on the bill (H. R. 744.0) making appropriations for fortificatiOns, and for o1her purposes, for 1885, submit the following written state- ment in explanation of the conference report: 

The bill as agreed upou appropriates $700,000; being $1.00,000 less tbau as it pa sed the Senate and 105,000 greater than as it passed the House. It appropri1 

ates $30,000 more than the law for 1884 and $300,000 less than the esotimates for 1885. SAM. J. RANDALL, WM. H. FORNEY, 

Managers on the part of the House. 
6116 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Mr. RANDALL. Mr. Speaker, the report itself explains very fully 

the exact condition of the bill at this time; but I want to say a word in 

another direction, and I say it on the first appropriate opportunity that 

is presented to me. Since time has been allowed me to make an examination I :find that I was in eqor, and I say it so that there may be no 

mistake hereafter. !allude to the bursting of three cannons to which 

I referred some time ago. 

Gentlemen present may remember that there was a controversy on 

that point in the House. I was in error in the statement I then made, 

and it was not surprising that I was led into an error; for it appears 

that three cannon of the same kind, but not three of the four-these 

were two of8-inch and one of 11-inch, the cann<m as stated by the gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. ELLIS] ordered by act of Congress; tho e 

were never :finished, being condemned before completion. The Government advanced some 58,000upon them to the Souih Boston Iron Company and $48,000 to another firm. Subsequently there was legislation 

which checked the further progress of the manufacturing of these guns. 

Mr. ELLIS. The steel was also condemned by General Benet. 

l'tir. RANDALL. But there was also legislation upon the subject, 

as I recollect. General Benet, however, condemned as well the steel, and 

in consequence of the misfortune of the firm manufacturing one or more 

of these guns the Government lost this loan of $58,000. The other part, 

the steel part, condemned by General Benet, cost 48,p00; so that I 

think the Government lost by that matter alone about $106,000. 

Mr. ELLIS. I think about that sum. Mr. RANDALL. I make the statement now, as I always love to 

correct myself when I am in error. 

The SPEAKER. The question is upon the adoption of the conference report. 

The conference report was agreed to. 

Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider the vote by which the report 

was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on 

the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF .BUSIKE S. 

Thereupon conferees were appointed. These conferees have not reported 

to the House, as I understand. 

I am informed that the Senate conferees have made a report to that 

body of disagreement. If there has been a disagreement, I desire to 

ask the Chair if it is not the duty of the conferees on the part of the 

House to report the subject back, in order that the House may be placed 

in possession of it. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair does not think that is a parliamentary 

inquiry. 

Mr. RANDALL. Has the notice been given to the House of a disagreement? 

Mr. EATON. I would like to say a word in reply to the lecture of 

the gentleman from Alabama. 

M1·. HEWITT, ofAlabania. This does not come out ofmytime. 

Mr. EATON. In the first place, the gentleman is mistaken when 

he says that the report has been made in the Senate. 

l'tfr. HERBERT. I was informed by one of the conferees it had been 

made. 

l'tir. EATON. The statement was made, I am informed by lli. HOAR, 

one of the conferees on the part of the Senate, that the conferees had 

not yet been able to agree; that is all. 

Mr. RANDALL. If the report was made to the Senate, it would 

hav~ to come here before we could act upon it. 

l'tir. HERBERT. I think the House should have possession of that 

subject, soas to take such action as it sees proper. !wanted to call the 

attention of the House to it. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Ala~ama is entitled to the 

floor and has thirty minutes of his time remaining. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I a k unanimous consent to take from 

the Speaker's table a couple of bills--

Mr. WHITE, f Kentucky. I call for the -Tegular- order. _That is 

not part of the entleman's speech. 

The SPEA R. The gentleman from Kentucky calls for the regular order, w. ich is equivalent to an objection. 

MEXICAN-WAR PENSION . 

The SPEAKER. If there be no further reports of conference com- Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. When I yielded to the gentleman from 

mittees the gentleman from Alabama is entitled to the floor for thirty Indiana [Mr. HoLMAN] for a conference report I was stating that the 

minutes. precedents for service pensions had in view distance of time from the 

Mr. WOLFORD. I move that the House do now adjourn. war, the lapse of time from the clo e of the war, and not the age or 

Mr. RANDALL. I hope not, Mr. Speaker. I have the conference the disability of the soldier. In the case of the Revolutionary soldiers 

report on the sundry civil bUl in my hand; and as soon as the Senate it was thirty-five years after the clo e of the war that the service pen-· 

returns the bill to the House I shall be ready to present it. sion was granted. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alab.ama. Let us take a recess for ten or fifteen But, Mr. Speaker, in granting that pension it was granted not to 

minutes. persons that were disabled, but to such soldiers as had served such a 

Mr. RANDALL. I am afraid if that is done members will go away length of time in the war of the Revolution; and to all that class withfrom the Hall. out distinction of age or disability. In the war of 1812 some fifty-odd 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I do not insist upon the motion. years had elapsed from the clo e of the war to the time when the penMr. WHITE, of Kentucky. l'tir. Speaker, by the vote that bas just sion was granted. About the year 1858, thirty-five or forty years after 

been taken on the disagreement between the Senate and the House con- the close of that war, this House passed a bill granting pensions to all 

ferees on the legislative bill I think it must be pretty clear that we I soldiers of that war, regardless of the disability or age of the soldiers .. shall not conclude our labors to-night. It is now past 2 o'clock in the The pensions were conferred upon all of them that had served for 

morning, and there is no quorum here. sixty days. That bill was defeated in the Senate in consequence of an 

Mr. LYl'tiAN. Ob, yes; therewasaquorumpresentonthelastvote. extravagant statement inade by the then Commissioner of Pensions. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Evidentlythereisnotaquorum within Tb&war then came and the granting of those pensions was postponed 

the Hall at the present time, no matter what may have been here on unti11871. . 

the last vote. Thirty-seven years after the close ef the Mexican war, following the 

The SPEAKER. What motion does the gentleman make? precedents that have been made upon this suhject, I have favored the 

ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move that the House do now ad- pensioning of the soldiers of that war and of the Indian wars prior to 

journ. the war with Mexico, making no distinction between them as to age, 

· The motion was not agreed to. . as to poverty, or as to disability, and following strictly the precedents. 

Ur. HEWITT, of Alabama. I yield to the gentleman from Illinois j But, Mr. S.Peaker, if these precedents are to be laid aside and a depart-

[Mr. SPRI GER] for a moment. I ure iS to be taken from them, then I shall never vote to pension any 

Mr. HOL IAN. Will the gentleman from Alabama allow me a , of the soldiers of the Indian wars or of the Mexican war either. If 

moment? [we are not to followtheprecedents, then let us stand upon the invalidMr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Notoutofmytime. [Criesof "Regu- pension system, and let us carry that out and do justice to the soldiel'S 

lar order ! "] under that system. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I desire to ask unanimous consent-- [Cries Ur. WHITE, of -Kentucky. Will the gentleman yield to me for a 

of" Regular order! '] question? 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is demanded all over the House. Mr. HEWJT!f, of Alabama. If it comes out of my time I can not. 

Mr. SPRINGER. If gentlemen will hear me a moment I want to l'tir. WHITE, of Kentucky. I yield the time for it out of my time. 

ask unanimous consent to make a statement [cries of " Regular or- Mr. HEWITT of Alabama. The gentleman has no time to yield. 

uer ! ''], and I am doing this in the interest of the business pressed upon The gentleman bas heretofore occupied all the time he has had in this 

me by my committee. I desire to state it' to the House and ask their House. 

consent-- [Cries of "Regular order. '] 1 Ur. WHITE, of Kentucky, rose. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair would recognize the gentleman but I The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Alabama declines to yield. 

can not, since the regular order is demanded. The gentleman from Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. There is another objection to this bill. 

Alabama is entitled to the floor. I call the attention of my friend from Indiana [Mr. BROWNE] to the 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask unani- ~ amendment to the second section of this bill. He will remember that mous consent to take from the Speaker's table one or two House bills when the rules were suspended and the Townshend bill passed he obwith Senate amendments granting pensions. , jected to that bill upon the ground that a soldier that served in the 

Mr. HERBERT. Mr. Speaker, I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 1 Mexican war and afterward joined the Union Army and was wounded 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. • 1 and was drawing a pension on account of that wound in the Union 

Mr.-HERBERT. Some tenor twelve days ago the House passed, as I service was excluded by that bill from a pension; and he objected to a substitute for the Senate bill, a bill to count the electoral vote. That it upon that ground. The gentleman was mistaken in his objection . 

. was forwarded to e Senate and the Senate rejected the substitute. That bill which the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] intro-
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6117 

duced and which the Committee on Pensiolli reported gave the soldier in the l\Iexican war who afterward joined the Union Army and was wounded and was receiving a pension for that wound, it gave him 

in addition to that $8 a month. 

:Ur. STEELE. Will the chairman of our committee yield to me to 

say that we did not report the Townshend bill ? Mr. ToWNSHEND 

took Ol!lr bill. · 

M:r. HEWITT, of Alabama. That is true. Now a Republican Senate, professing to be the peculiar friend of the Union soldiers of this 

country, strikes that out and excludes the Mexican soldier who a:trer- . ward volunteered and went into the Union Army. If he is receiving a pension, it denies him a pension for his services in the Mexican war. 

I a k you gentlemen who have been struggling here day after day 

and hour after hour, are you willing to strike in this way at the l\Iexican soldier who did service in the Union Army-are you willing to 

deny him a pension for services in the Mexican war because you find 

he gets a pension for his wounds received in the service of the Union? 

There is another objection, and it has been urged by my friend from 

Indiana [Mr. STEELE] and by my frien'd from Iowa [Mr. STRUBLE] 

against the passage of the Mexican bilL I do not believe I violate the 

secrecy of the committee-room and I do not think the gentleman will 

object to it when I say that one of the grounds of objection to the bill was that there wereover200,000 applications of soldiers who had been 

wounded or claimed to have been wounded for pensions in your Pension Bureau, lying there year a:trer year, to be disposed of; and it was said that if we passed this Mexican pension bill it would come in the 

way and postpone these matters. The ·ideawas to wait until these applications that have now accumulated therein the Pension Bureau had 

been disposed of, so as not to interfere with them. That was the objection urged then. . • 1r1r. STEELE. Our objection was that you were willing to provide 

for pensioning soldiers who fought against us, but you would not provide the means for giving pensions to those who fought for us. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I know that was one of your objections. You not only want to put all these Mexil'an soldiers on the 

pension-rolls, but you put in another class of soldiers, soldiers that 

were not wounded in your service, soldiers who did not contract disease in your service that disabled them; a class that may now be disabled for some cause not at all connected with the service. You want 

to admit their claims and place them in the Pension Bureau~ and sore- tard the progress of action upon the applications that are now there 

for invalid pensions, for men who ought to have;} been pensioned years 

ago. 

Mr. STEELE. This bill will pension all disabled soldiers. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. You put a new class of applications in 

thePensionOffice; youextendyourpension-list. Now, whyshouldnot 

this bill be resisted? Can any gentleman tell me what this bill is going 

to cost the country? 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. I can . . Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. No; you can not. 

llr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. I can tell you. 

Mr. HEWIIT, of Alabama. I do not want to hear it now. Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. You asked a question and I want to 

answer it . • Ur. HEWITT, of A.lahama. I will answer it for you. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. Then you ought to do that. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. My dear sir, I want some official data. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. I will give you official data. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. The gentleman is the representative of a good large number of soldiers in his district who would like to have 

pensions, and the gentleman would like to get that soldier vote. Therefor I would look with some degree of caution upon any estima~ he 

would make. 

l\Ir. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. Will you allow me, then, to ask you 

just one question? . 1\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. Certainly. 

l\Ir. JOSEPH D. T.A. YLOR. Did you not, at the time we were con- sidering the l\Iexican pension bill which you reported, when we had an all night session--

U .r. HEWITT, of Alabama. The time you were resisting it. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. Yes, sir. Did you not say that you 

would support measures which weresubstantiallythe same as the Senate amendments to this bill, provided they were brought in at another 

time and not annexed to this bill? 

}.lr. HEWITT, of Alabama. No; I did not say that. 

Ur'. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. That you had no objection to them? 

Mr. HEWITT,. of Alabama. I told you then, and I tell you now, 

and I will tell the country now, that I am ready to support a bill that 

will give widows pensions of $12 a month. 

l\Ir. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. Does not this bill do that? 

Mr. HEWITT, of .Alabama. It does a great deal more than that. 

1\:Ir. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. And so-- Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I would like to yield, but I have not 

time. 

Mr. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. I only want to prompt you on this 

bill. . 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I do not need prompting; I understand it, I think. I also favored an amendment which makes the re- ception of a soldier by the Government in its service prima facie evidence 

that he was sound when he entered that service. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. That is in this bill. 

Mr. HEWIIT, of Alabama. That is in this bill, and I approve it. 

But I want to tell you gentlemen that we passed such a provision 

through this House a good long while ago. Now, if your Republican 

Senators "over there were so much in favor of it, why did they put it 

on a bill which they knew could not be passed? 

l\Ir. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. How did they know you were going 

to oppose it here. · 

l\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. They knew it could not pass; they did 

not want it to pass, and a great many of you do not want it to pass. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. You will probably hear from the soldiers this fall. 

l\Ir. HEWI1'T, of Alabama. I have many a Unionsoldierinmydistrict. I have in my district two counties that furnished two regiments 

of soldiers for your service. And I want to have the gentleman understand that those Union soldiers are my warm friends. I am not an enemy of the Union soldier, and all of you who have served with me on the Pensions Committee know that I am not. 

l\Ir. CUTCHEON. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Cert~y. 

l\Ir. CUTCHEON. Will the gentleman now withdraw his point of 

order aga.inst this bill, and allow it to be considered and passed upon 

section by section, without making any point of order? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I will tell the gentleman now that so 

far as I am concerned he may repass the bill if he wants to, and th~n 

I would advise him to go over to his Republican friends in the Senate 

and test them there, and ask them to pass the bill wehavealreadysent 

there, and see whether they are for it or not.· It is not necessary for 

them to pass another bill and send it over here. 

1.Ir. PETERS. A.llow me to ask the gentleman from A.labama--

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. If you will extend my time I will 

talk all night and answer all your questions. 

Mr. CUTCHEON. The· gentleman has· not answered my question 

whether he will now withdraw his point of order. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. There is too much that is wrong in 

this bill now; of course I can not do that. I say that if there was a 

desire upon the _part of the friends of the Union soldiers to pass this 

bill, why was· it delayed from the 3d of March until a few days ago 

before it was sent back to this House from the Senate? 

Will you go before your Union soldiers and explain to them why 

those who profess to be their particular friends delayed this measure 

until an hour when they knew it would be impossible to pass the bill. 

if it was to be allowed any decent consideration? 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. Will the gentleman allowmetoanswer a question which he asked? · 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. No; I can not yield now. Mr. Speaker, there is here presented to the country the extraordinary 

spectade of an attempt to force through this House without debate and 

without consideration in the very last hours of the session a bill which 

in my opinion will involve an expenditure of from fifty to sixty million 

dollars per annum; which will saddle upon this country a debt of two 

thousand million dollars. Are you willing to go to the coUiitry in this 

Presidential race and tell the tax-paying people that you voted to pass 

without discussion or deliberation a bill which would saddle upon 

them a debt of two thousand millions? 

l\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky, rose. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Take your seat; my dear friend; you 

have occupied enough time already. 

Now I repeat, Mr. Speaker, there is not a reasonable thinking man in the North who will not indorse the resistance to the passage of this 

measure under the gag. I do not believe that any of the noble soldiers 

who fought in the war from love of country will approve such a measure being forced through in this way. · 

Mr. STEELE. The other bill was forced through. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. One wrong does not justify another. 

That is a .su:fficient answer on that point. 

l\Ir. PETERS. Will the gentleman from Alabama allow me--

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Mr. Speaker, how much more time 

have I? When that question is answered I can decide whether I will 

yield. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has nine minutes. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Then I can not yield. 

1\fr. PETERS. We will extend your time. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. If you will extend my time I will an- swer. 

l\Ir. PETERS. Will not the gentleman allow this bill to be considered and passed with the provisions he approves, and let it go to the 

Senate, trusting to their good faith as to whether they will or will not 

concur? 

A. MEMBER. We want to get the bill into a conference. 

1\fr. HEWITT, of Alabama. My dear sir, do you not know that you 
6118 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

have a Presidentialracejustaheadofyou? Do younotknowthat you 

have a Congressional race just ahead of you? 

A 1\fEMBER. We will take our chances upon that. 

1\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. Do you suppose that we could trust 

you or my Democratic friends herefrom the.Northon that subject during a political excitement? I tell the gentleman that when the Presidential race and the Congressional race are over we will then consider 

this bill. 

1\fr. WH;ITE, of Kentuc1.ry. You are makil;lg a political question of 

the matter. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Gentlemen on the other side want to 

make it a political question; I do not. This question should not be 

carried into the Presidential race. I do not believe that· any man can be justified in legislating for the promotion of party interests or 

party success. 1\Ir. PETERS. I simply propose that the bill be passed here with 

the provisions which the gentleman approves and sent to the Senate. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I do not believe in that kind of legislation. 

1\fr. PETERS. You have said you approved increasing thepension.s 

of widows. 

'JYir. HEWITT, of Alabama. I do; and I will vote for that measure at any time. If you will detach it from this bill, I will give it my 

hearty support. But from what we have seen during this CongresS, it 

is wholly unnecessary to send such a bill to your Republican friends in 

the Senate. 

1\'Ir. PETERS. Let us try them and place the responsibility on the 

Republican party. · Mr. HEWITT, of A.I.a.bama. We have already tried them. We sent 

them in this bill one or two provisions which they could have passed 

and ought to have passed in the interest of the Union soldiers of the 

country, but they refused to do so. Ur. BROWNE, of Indiana. They have passed them. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. How have they passed them? They 

have put the bill in a shape in which they knew it could not be passed; 

and one Senator declared it was done to defeat the bill; that the bill 

was loaded down for the purpose of defeating it. 

I repeat, Mr. Speaker, that my opposition to this bill is not on account of any hostility to the Union soldiers of this country. . Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. You have been fighting this bill for four 

days. 

1\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. And that ·to your mind is evidence 

that I am an enemy of the Union soldier? It is a .hard matter for 

you gentlemen on the other side to believe that a man who fo~ght you 

in the late war can entertain a good opinion of your soldiers. You 

neveT committed a greater mistake in your lives than in entertaining 

-the idea that we cherish any hostility toward those men. The, Union 

soldiers have warm and fum friends among the soldiers in the Southern 

confederacy. · , Mr. O'NEILL, of Missouri. This is Sunday, andletusstoppolitics 

and attend to business. [Laughter.] 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. My opposition, siT, has notbeenonany 

such ground. My opposition has been against forcing a bill through 

of so much importance to the people of this country in the last hours 

of the session. 

I reserve the remaining portion of my time. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has four minutes remaining. 

. 1\Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. I do not know whether the House is 

in a temper to hear a calm and candid discussion of this matter or not. 

I confess! am somewhat surprised the gentleman from _\.labama should 

oppo e the consideration of this bill upon the ground, as he alleges, 

that ufficient time for its examination has' not .been given by this side 

of the House. Does the gentleman remember when this original bill was introduced it was passed by this House over our protest under a sUspension of the rules, cutting off all amendments, limiting the debate 

to but thirty minutes? 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I was opposed to that at that time. 

1\fr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I protested this act should not be passed, 

taking, according to the estimate of the Commissioner of Pensions, not 

less than 54,000,000 from the Treasury, without giving the House an 

opportunity to discuss the measure and offer amendments. The gentleman supported the bill then. 

What next? The gentleman opposes the second section of this bill 

beca.u e it does not give a pension to a soldier who may have served in 

the Mexican war and who subsequently in the Union service may have 

receiYed a wound by reason of which he is entitled to a pension of 8 

a month. I am surprised at that, because, if I remember correctly, the 

very bill the gentleman brought into this House excluded from pension that very class of soldiers. 

lr. HEWITT, of Alabama. That is a mistake. 

l\1r. BROWNE, of Indiana. If I am mistaken in regard to ;be provision of the gentleman's bill I am not mistaken in regard·to this, that 

every Mexican pension bill brought into this House by gentlemen on the other" side, from the Forty-fifth Congress to the present time, con- tained the identical provision contained in this bill. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Will the gentleman yield to me for a. moment? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Certainly. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. On my own motion that provision of 

the bill which had been introduced by myself and others, which in 

operation would have excluded Union soldiers, was stricken out. If 

you will examine my report you will find the reason why it was done. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I am not mistaken in the historical fact 

that every Mexican pension bill which has been brought into this House 

from and including the Forty-fifth Congress up to the present time con·· tained this provision. The gentleman stated it was stricken out on his own motion. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. The bill brought in by the committee did not contain it. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. In the first place Mexican soldiers were placed on an exact equality with those who served in the Union army 

in the war of the rebellion. The disabled Mexican soldier is en- titled to the same rate of pension with the Union soldier. The general 

law puts them on terms of perfect equality in that regard. It makes no discrimination whatever between the two classes of soldiers. 

What is the gentleman's bill, and what is this? He protests now, 

as I understand him, against purely service pensions. But the gentleman's bill provided for a service pension to every soldier in the Mexi- can war who simply appeared on some muster-roll of the army during 

the Mexican war. 

He does not by this bill require any service whatever, and yet the 

fact has been developed in this debate that quite 40 per cent. of all the 

enlistments in the Mepcan service were made after the last battle of 

that war had been fought. 

But the gentleman was not willing to stop there. He put in hi$ 

drag-net in ·the shape of his Mexican war pension bill and took into it 

all the Indian wars in which the United States had been engaged, and 

I was even surprised that he did not provide for the blood-hounds that 

Van Buren imported from Cuba to hunt down fugitive negroes in the 

Florida swamps. He ought to have provided for them, for they doubtless rendered very. efficient service in that direction. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I would like to ask the gentleman 

where he read that history or got the information from? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. And his bill, covering the Mexican war and all of the Indian wars and all of the disturbances in the Southern 

States in the shape or nature of wars, gave a pure service pension, and 

nothing else. 

Now, bow has this bill been improved in that regard? It still re- tains the service provision, but cuts out in the first place the Indian wars. That is the saving. Not only that, but it was proper to be done 

for reasons I could give if I had time to enter into the history of the e 

wars, because it deprives of a pension, it excludes from a. pension, a class of soldiers that did not know service and who attempted to per- form no service. I have a letter from a citizen of my own State, who 

informs me that in a certain city in that State a company was made up 

for the Mexican war, but remained in camp in the city in which it was enlisted a sufficient length of time to entitle them to pension under 

the general bill; and that they never left the city of their enli.5tment. 

They never crossed the Ohio River. They were never e~ route to the scene of conflict; and this bill, therefore, is greatly improved in this, that it requires that the applicant for a pension shall have either participated in a battle in that war or shall have served at least fourteen day. in Mexico or on the frontiers of Mexico, or shall have been en route 1or the field of action. 

The gentleman objects that this bill as amended by the Senate ex- tends the provisions of the pension laws to widows who were not at the 

time of the service the wives of the soldiers. 

The SPEAKER. Will the gentleman from Indiana suspend to re- ceive a message from the Senate and a conference report? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Certainly, reserving my time. 

MESSAGE FROl\1 THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its SecrQtary, announced 

that the Senate agreed to the report of the committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the enate to the bill (H. R. 7380) making appropriations for the sundry civil 

expenses of the Government for the :fiscal year ending June 30,1885, and 

for other purposes. 

Also, that the Senate further insisted on certain amendments peci- fied to said bill disagreed to by the House ofRepresentatives. 

The message further announced that the Senate had passed a bill of 

the following title; ib. which the concurrence of the House of Representatives was requested, namely: 

A bill (S. 2203) to donate a cemetery site on the public lands tO the 

city of Kirwin, in the State of Kansas. 

ENROLLED BILL SIGNED. 

1\Ir. YAPLE, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the committee had examined and found truly enrolled a bill of the following title; when the Speaker signed the same: 
1~84. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6119 

.A bill (S. 28) to confirm the status of John N. Quackenbush as a. 

commander in the United States Navy. 

SUNDRY CIVIL APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Mr. RANDALL. I now call up the message from the Senate and 

desire to submit a conference report on the sundry civil appropriation 

bill. 

The SPEAKER. The report will be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 7380) making appropriations for ·und ry civil expenses of the Government for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, ·and for other purposes, after fu~l and· fr~e conference have agreed to recom- mend and do recommend to theu respective Houses as follows: 

That. the Senate recede from its amendments numbered 7, 9, 18, 21, 24, 27, 28, 

29, 31, 32, 50, 53, 54, 55, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 65, ~. 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, , 1. sz, 83, 84, 85, 86, ss, 89 oo, 91, 92, 93, 95, 96, 99, 100, 101, 103, 101, 108, no, 1!5, 

116 119 125 127 129 130, 13i, 132, 143, 144, 145, 151, 154, 159, 160, 166, 168; 171, 112, 

174' 175' 179° 180:182:183, 189, 197, 199, 202, 203, 204, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 213, 214, 

215: 216' 226' 231, 232, 233, 284. 236, 23'J, 241, 242,244, 245, 248,249, 250, 251 and 252. 

That the House recede from its disagreement to theamendmentsoftheSenate 

numb red 2, 3,6,8, 10, 11,12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20,22, 23, 25,_26,30,33,34, 35,39, 41, 42,43, 44 45 46 47 49,51,52, 56, 62, 63; 66, 67, 87, 94, 102,104,105, 111,112,113,118,121, 123, 

ci~~~m~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 173: 17 : 181: 184: 185: 113?,187, 190,192, lg_:3, 1~ 196,198,200, 205.! 211, 212, 217,218, 219, 

221, ~2. 2?...3, 225, 230, 235,238, 239, 247, 259, "£11, 272,273,274, 27<>, 276,277,278, 279, 280; 

281 2 2 283 284 285 286, 287, 288, 289, 2'-JO, 302, 303, and 304; and agree to the same. That 'the Hou'se r~cede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 1, and agree to the same. with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert" $5,000 ;" and the Senate agree to the same. · That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 4 and 5, and agree to the same with amendments as follows: In lieu of the sum proposed in each of said amendments insert "S7,500;" and the enat.e agree to the same. , That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered14, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert "$1.25,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 36, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert "$140,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 37, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the um proposed insert "$20,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 38, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed -insert "$1.5,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 40, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: .At the end 

of said amendment insert the following : "Provided, That a report in detail of 

all such inspection shall be made to the Secretary of the Treasury, who shall 

annually transmit the same to Congress;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 48, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: Strike out the amended paragraph; and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen- ate numbered· 64, and .agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the sum proposed insert" $170,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 97, and agree to the saine with an amendment as follows: ln lieu 

of the sum proposed insert "$120,600; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 98, and agree to the same with an amendment a follows\ In lieu of 

the urn proposed in said amendment insert "$1.4,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 106, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the matter proposed to be stricken out by said amendment insert the following: 

"And hereafter, whenever it is pract.icable,contracts for the transportation of moneys, bullion, coin, not-es, bonds, and other securities of the United States, and paper, shall be let to the lowest responsible bidder therefor after notice to all 

partie having means of transportation;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 114, with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the sum proposed in 

said amendment insert "$20,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 117, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the um proposed in said amendment insert "Sl5,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendmentoftheSenate 

numbered 120, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lines 7 and of said amendment strike out the words "not to exceed one hundred thousand dollars; '' and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 122, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the amended paragraph insert the following: "To establish and maintain quar- antine stations, and to provide proper helter for and care of neat cattle imported, at such ports as may be deemed necessary, $25,000, to be expended by 

the Commissioner of .Agriculture under the supervision of the Secretary of the Trea ury ; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 124, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the matter proposed to be inserted by said amendment in ert the following: "To 

enable the several Executive Departments, the Department of .Agriculture, and 

the Smithsonian Institution to participate in the World's Indust.rial and Cotton 

Centennial Exposition to be held at JSew Orleans, La., under actofCongress of 

February 10, 1883, a follows: For the War Department, $15,000; for the Navy 

Department, $10,000; for the State Department ,.10,000; for the Treasury De- partment, $12,000; for the Interior Department, S125,000; for the Post-Office De- partment, $10,000 · for the Department of Agriculture, $?..5,000; for the Depart- ment of Justice, lta,ooo; for the Smithsonian Institution (including the National 

1\Iu eum and Commission of Fish and Fisherie ), $75,000; for necessary incidental expenses of administration by the board, including office rent, fuel, gasJ stationery, telegrams, and expressage, 15,000; in all, $300,000; to be disbursea 

under the direction of the board of United States Execut.ive Departments ap- pointed under executive order of May 13, 1884; and no expense of any kind beyond the amounts herein provided for shall be incurred by any of the said De- partments or any officer thereof on account of said exposition. 

''To enable the several Executive Departments of the Government, including 

the Department of .Agriculture and the Smithsonian Institution, to participate 

in the Cincinnati Industrial Exposition, to be held at Cincinnati, Ohio, during the 

months of September and October, 1884, 810,000; and to participate in the South- ern Exposition, to be held at Louisville, Ky., from .August 16, to October 25,1884, 

SlO,OOO; in all $20,000: Provided, That in case more than ~he said :oums is r~uire~ 

for the execution of this provision the same shall be prud by said expos1hon . .And the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 126 and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lines 7 and 8 of the a:Uendment strike out the words "amounting to &17,362;" and the 

se,r:~~ fl:~o~s~hr~~:~~efrom its disagreement to the amenament of the Senate 

numbered 128, and agree to the . arne with an amendment as follows: In ljeu of 

the sum proposed in said amendment insert" $21,000; ' and the Senate agree to 

th~~~h·e House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 135, and agree to the same with. an amendment !lS follows: ln li~u of 

the matter propo ed to be inserted by said. amend~ent m ert the followmg: 

"For constructing terraces north of the Capitol, sect10n marked .A, as shown on printed plan accompanying the letter of the. Secretary of the Treasur;v (Exe.cutive Document No. 9, first ses ion Forty-eighth Congress), $60,000, n_:1eluding wages of mechanics and laborers: Provided, That the ~ork u!ld~r this appro- priation shall be confined to the north front of the Capitol bmldmg,_and shall not. extend westward beyon<i the line of the west front of the Senate wmg of the 

Capitol;" aud the Senate agree to the same. · That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 137, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In line 2 of the said amendment strike out the word " lower; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 146 and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the um prop~sed insert "520,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 149, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert " $350,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 153, and agree to the same 'Yith an ~m~ndment a~ follo~s :_Strikeout 

all of said amendment after the word' acre," 1n hue 6, and mserttnlien thereof 

"$!5 561 in full payment for said land;" and the Senate agree to the same. Th'at the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen- ate numbered 157, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the sum propo ed insert "$386,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 158 and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the words stri~ken out by said amendment insert the following words: "Di- rector subject to the approval of the;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen- ate numbered 161, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows.: Strikeout "June30" and insert "January!;" and the Senate agree to the 

sa~;at the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 163 and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum prop~sed insert "$30,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 176, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert "$10,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 177, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum propo ed insert "$!9,000; ' and the Senate agree to the same. '.rhat the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate n umbered 188, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert" $6,000 ;"and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 191, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert" $12,500;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 195,and agree to the same with amen?ments a~ fol~ows: In l~e 1 of 

said amendment strike out the words "two stories" and m heu thereof msert the words "one story;" and in lieu of the sum proposed in the amendment in- sert "$15,000 ;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 201, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed in said amendment insert" $20,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 220, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum propo ed insert "$20,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. '!'hat the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 224, and agree to the same with _an amendment as,~ollows: In line 1 ?f 

said amendment after the word "act,'' strike out the words be and the same IS 

hereby" and in iieu thereof insert the words "during which said publications 

shall be subject to the order of Senators, Representatives, and Delegates, and 

shall be;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the Hou e recede from its disagreement to theamendmentofthe Senat-e 

numbered 227 and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum propo'sed insert" $60,000 ;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 228 and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum prop~sed in ert " 40,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the Hou e recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 229, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert '' 40,000; '' and the Senate agree to t.he same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 240 and agree to the same with an amendment. as follows: Restore the matt-er pr~posed to be stricken out by said amendment, and strike out, in 

line 21, page 75 of the bill. the word "sum" and insert in lieu thereof the word 

"sums;" and the Senate agree to the same. . 

That the Hou e recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 246, and agree to the ame with an amendment as follows: In lieu of 

the sum proposed insert •' $35,000; '' and the Senate agree to the same. 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 291, and agree to thesa!I!ewithan amendment as follows: In lieu 

of the sum proposed in ert "52,250,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. 

That the House ·recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate 

numbered 292, 293,294, 295,296,297, 2VS, 299,300, and 301, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows : In lieu of the amended paragraph insert the following: "For printing and binding for Congress, including the proceedings and 

debates, $1,153,170; for the State Department, $10,800; f~r the Treasury Department, $270,000; for the War DepA.rtment, 157,500 (of which sum 12,000 shay be 

for the Catalogue of the Library of the Surgeon-General's Office)_; for the avy Department, $63,000; for the Interior Department, $340,000 (of which sum $10,000 

is appropriat-ed for rebinding tract-books for the General Land Office); for the 

Departmel'lt of Justice, $9,000; for the Po t-Office Department, $1.80,~; for the 

.Agricultural Department 22,000; for the Supreme Court of the Umted States. 

$1 ,00); for the supreme ~urt <'!f the Di trict of Columbia, 1,350; for the Court 

of Claims $9 000 · and for the L1brary of Congress, $6,080. And no more than an allotment'of~ne:halfofthe sum hereby appropriated shall be expended in the two first quarters of the fiscal year, and no more than one-fourth thereof may 
6120 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, 

be expended in either of the two last quarters of the fiscal year, except that, in addition thereto, in either of said last quarters, the unexpended balances of al- lotments for preceding quarters may be dx:Rended; " and the Senate agree to the same. 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate numbered 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, and 317, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows : In lieu of the m a tter pro- posed to be stricken out by said amendments insert the following: " That the Joint Committee on Public Printing is hereby instructed to examine into the numbers printed of the various documents..!eports, bills, and other papers published by order of Congress, or of either .uouse thereof, and of the CoN- GRESSIONAL RECORD,- and to report a bill, in December next, making such re-· ductions in the numbers and cost of printing, and such changes and reduc- tions in the distribution of said publications, as they may deem expedient·, with a report giving their reasons therefor; and that the said committee is also in- tructed to investigate the printing and binding for the Executiye Departments, executed at the Government Printing Office and at the branch printing offices and binderies in the various Departments, and report a hill, in December next, 

making such reductions in expense and imposing such checks as they may deem expedient, with a report giving their reasons therefor; and said com- mittee is further instructed to make any other inYestigationscalculated in their opinion to reduce the cost of the public printing, and report the result thereof; and the said committee is hereby authorized to summon and to examine experts and witnesses, and to call upon the heads ofExecutive Departments and the Pub- lic Printer for such information regarding the preceding matters as they may desire; and any expenses necessarily incurred in making t.he investigations aforesaid shall be defrayed equally from the contingent funds of the two Houses of Congress; " and the Senate agree to the same. The committee of conference is unable to agree on the amendments of the Senate numbered 243, 253, 254, 255, 256, ~"'7, 258, 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266, 267, 

268, 269, ZlO. SAM. J. RANDALL, WM. H. FORNEY, . THOS. RYAN, 

Managers on tM pa1·t of tM House. 

W. B. ALLISON, EUGENE HALE, 

F. M. COCKRELL, 

Manauers on tM part of tM Senate. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. SPRINGER). The Clerk will now 

read the written statement accompanying the report. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

The managers on the part of the House of the conference on the disagreej!· votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 7380 

making appropriations for sundry civil expenses of the Government for the year ending June 30,1885, and for other purposes, submit the following written statement in explanation of the conference report : The committee of conference has agreed upon all of the amendments of the Senate except 18 of the whole number·of317. The amendments of the Senate no~ agreed to relate to that portion of the bill making appropriations for expenses of United States courts and strike out aJl of the provisions of the House which fix a. salary compensation for attor- neys, marshals, and clerks, together with the legislation relating to the same and which was placed upon the bill in the House on the report of the Com- mittee on Expenditures m the Department of Justice. The Senate added to the bill $4,036,R90.69, of which sum it is agreed by the conference that the Senate recede from ~,732,060.3land that the House agree to Sl,Z78,930.38. The amendments not agreed to incl'ease the bill as it passed the House $26,000. 

' SAM. J. RAND.il.L, 

WM. H. FORNEY, 

THOS.RYAN, 

Mwnagers on tM part of tM House. 

Mr. RANDALL. I move that the report be adopted. 

The report was agreed to. 

Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider the vote by which the report 

was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid 

on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Mr. RANDALL. I am now ready to answer any question any gentleman may wish to ask me in reference to any item in this bill in 

which he may feel an interest. 

Mr. WILLIS. I would like to ask the gentleman from Pennsylvania 

in regard to item 124. I wish to know whether we are to understand 

by that that the Cincinnati and Louisville exhibitions are to have the 

benefit of these exhibits and that the limit of cost at those places is to 

be $10,000? 

Mr. RANDALL. That is the agreement. The amendments of the 

Senate about which the conferees were unable to agree relate, as stated, 

to expenditnres in the Department of Jnstice. I do not think it inappropriat e to say that the Senate were firm and fixed in their determination not to allow what they term in that body to be legislation on an appropriation bill. The two conferees representing the majority of the 

House were equally firm in asserting this was a beneficial provision, 

and consequently disagreement is reported to the Honse for such ac- tion as the Honse may see fit to take. 

It is proper for me to say, however, that the Senate recognized the fact 

that the appropriation for the carrying on this Department of the Government, the Department of Justice, is not required to the same extent 

as during the preceding year; in fact, as the report states, that while 

the Senate and the House have been unable to agree as to legislation, 

yet the amount of money appropriated to carry on this service is a-dually 20,000 less than the amount fixed in the provision passed by the 

Honse. 

The gentleman from Kansas [Mr. RYAN J has the fignres, I think, on that point, and he will give them. He can answer now, if he will. 

Mr. RYAN. I will follow the gentleman. 

Mr. RANDALL. Very well. 

Now, the Senate propo es, if the Honse will recede from the amendments in dispute, the following: 

~~ ~~~u!o~rthcir =.~:;~::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::·:.::: :::::::::::::::::::::: ~: m 

Net reduction...... .................. .................... ....................................... 16,300 

~~ ~~~u!o~ ~.%. ~~~~:r::::::::::·.:::::·:.::::::::·.:·.:::::·.:· :.::::·:::::::::::::::::: gg: ~ 

Net reduction.......... ........................................................ ...... ............ 29,900 

To ad~f~1 c~~~f:f:~~ ... ~·:::::.~:: ::::.:·.:::::·.::::::::::::::::·.::·.:::·::.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.":::::::::: :: ~ 

Reduction under House bill................................................. ............ 20,200 

I now yield to the gentleman from Kansas. 

Mr. RYAN. Mr. Speaker, this amendment, known to the Hou e as 

the Springer amendment, provides an entire new system for compensating Federal court officer, the marshals and their deputies, United 

States attorneys, and the United States commissioners. It is legi lation important and elaborate. It covers some eighteen pages of closely 

printed matter. It overtnrns a system which has existed since the 

foundation of the Government. It passed this body under a suspension 

of the rnles, so no member had an opportunity to criticise or amend it. 

Mr. RANDALL. Excnse me. That amendment did not pass under 

a suspension of the rules. It was open to debate and amendment. 

Mr. RYAN. I beg pardon. At all events it went to the Sena.te on 

this bill at a time when it could not be fully considered in the last 

hours of the session. The Senate had no opportunity to give the subject careful consideration, and the Senate conferees seemed to think it 

unjnst and unfair that we should thrnst upon the Senate legislation of 

this magnitude and importance in this manner and expect them to 

agree to it. They were firm, apparently, at least in their purpose not 

to agree to it. 

So fur as I am personally concerned I am friendly to the legislation. 

I believe it to be wise, and I think it would be well and for the best 

interests of the service if it were enacted intoalaw. I shall move that 

the Honse recede from its disagreement with the Senate in regard to 

these amendments, and if that prevails I shall snbmit other amendments, the effect of which will be to make provision tor the marshals, 

the attorneys, the clerks, the commissioners, the jurors, and the witnesses, and for the support of prisoners, and the rent of conrt-honse , 

and miscellaneons items, covering this whole snbject. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentuch.7. Allow me to ask the gentleman jf he 

will snbmit amendments covering the salaries of marshals under a different system of making payments than at present? 

:Mr. RYAN. Under the existing law. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Recognizing the fee system as it stands? 

Mr. RYAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I hope it will not be agreed to. 

Mr. RYAN. I have some hope that it will prevail. 

I want to say to the Honse that if these motions are adopted that I 

propose to offer, the Springer amendment will be stricken out, but provision will be made for the courts in Utah, and 600,000will be provided 

for the marshals, the same as the current year; 325,000 for the attorneys, the same as the current year; 160,000 for the clerks, the 

same as the cnrrent year; and 100, ooo· for the commissioners, whereas 

$130,000is provided for the current year. It will also provide 400,000 

for jurors, whereas $450,000 is provided for the current year; '500,000 

for witnesses, whereas $600,000 is provided in the cnrrent year; 300,000 

for the support of prisoners, the same as in the current year; ·50,000 

for the rent of court-honses, the same as for the current year; and 

$300,000 for miscellaneons expenses, whereas 310,000 is the current 

year's appropriation. 

I understand the effect will be, so far as dollars and cents are concerned, that if these motions prevail the bill will carry $20,000 less 

than it would if the Springer amendment were adopted. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I would liketoinquireofthegentlemanfrom Kansas whether these provisions that he refers to and to which he will offer an amendment are not the Senate amendments to the bill? 

Mr. RYAN. They are the Senate amendments with amendments. 

Mr. HISCOCK. And simply change the amounts? 

Mr. RYAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Then wonld you change the amount here, or imply mo•e to recede from the d.L~greements and agree to the enate 

amendments with amendment-strike ont the Springer amendment and 

send that to the conference? 

Mr. RYAN. I would not, becanse in point of fact they are sub tantially agreed to by the conference on the part of the Senate and there 

would be no objection to them, I think. 

JI.Ir. RANDALL. I now yield twentyminutestothe gentlemanfrom 

Dlinois [JI.Ir. SPRINGER]. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I shall be briefer than that and will not occupy 

any longer time than is ab olutely necessary. 

I desire the attention for a short time of the gentleman from Kansas, 

who has stated his intention to move to recede from our disagreements 

and agree to the amendments of the Senate. He has said that he will 
~- ·-

1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6121 

then propose certain amendments also to the Senate propositions and 

which will reduce the amount carried by the bill as it stands 20,000. 

Mr. Speaker, this is the most delusive proposition I have ever heard in 

any deliberative body. The gentleman proposes to reduce the amount 

paid to jurors $100,000 and to witnesses $50,000. Now, is that below 

the appropriations for the current year, or does it include the appropriations and deficiencies ? 

l\Ir. RYAN. The appropriations for 1884 I have already stated to the 

House in comparison with those proposed. 

l\fr. SPRINGER. You propose less than the appropriations for the 

current year, including deficiencies? 

Mr. RYAN. Yes, sir. 

l\fr. SPRINGER Thatisthewaylunderstoodthegentleman. Now, 

I want to call attention of the House to this fact, that while it is not proposed to change the machinery under which the expenses of courts are 

incurred, the gentleman proposes to reduce the amounts appropriated 

for that purpose. During the last fiscal year there was expended for the 

fees of witnesses 660,000; that is theamountofthe appropriations and 

deficiencies estimated and appropriated already. And now the gentleman proposes to appropriate $500,000. There is a clear deficiency, to 

come in next session, of 100,000in the fees of witnesses. How can you 

restrain or reduce the fees that witnesses are to earn in the courts of the 

counocy? It is beyond your control. Unless you change the legislation the same laws are in force, and yet you propose to reduce the 

amounts paid tothem. There is evidentlya deficiency to begin with of 

$160,000 on the tees of witnesses. 

Under the existing laws the witnesses get so much per day and they 

get 6 cents a mile for traveling between their residences and where the 

court sits. Under the proposed amendment they get the actual amount 

paid to the railroad company; which will not average over 3 cents per 

mile in all the State..'>, while it is a little above that in the Territories, 

so that instead of paying 6 cents per mile for the travel of witnesses 

and jurors as the present law contemplates, under the amendment you 

pay in the State of New York 2 cents a mile. Therefore under the 

portion of the bill which the Senate has rejected you are reducing the 

expenses for witnesses by the difference between 6 cents and 2 cents a 

mile for the travel which they make in that State. And so it is with 

aJl the travel that is made by marshals, deputy marshals, attorneys, 

witnesses, &ndjurorsin all of the courtsofthe country; and hence the 

substantial reduction of the mode of incurring expenses which this 

amendment produces. 

Mr. BELFORD. Will my friend permit me to remind him of the 

fact that you can not travel over a railroad in Colorado unless you pay 

10 cents a mile? · 

Mr. SPRINGER. I understand that the State of Colorado and the 

Territories are exceptions. But the whole expense of running the 

United States courts in the State of Colorado is small. 

Mr. BELFORD. I will state to the gentleman that the court was 

compelled at one time to suspend its operations inconsequence ofthe 

fact that the appropriations were not adequate. 

Mr. SPRINGER. .No doubt in the State of Colorado this is an injustice to witnesses, and therefore the gentleman from Colorado should 

support this amendment because this amendment will allow him all he 

pays for his railroad travel. But as it is he is compelled to go to court 

and get 6 cents a mile, when he pays the railroad company 10 cents 

a mile. Such inequality as this exists all over the Territories; while 

in the great State of New York you pay "the witness; the juror, 6 

cents, and he pays the pilroad 2 cents a mile. It is such legislation 

as this that we are perpetuating by the existing law, and which we 

will perpetuate if we concur in the Senate amendment to this bill. 

The committee of which I have the honor to be the chairman early 

began the investigation of this case. We were instructed to do so by 

the Honse. And we were requested to do so by the President of the 

United States. In his message to thisHouseinDecember last hesaid: 

District attorneys and marshalsThey should be paid wholly by salaries, instead of in part- by fees, as is now t he case. The change would prove to. be a measure of economy, and would discourage the institution of needless and oppressive legal proceedings, which it is to be feared, have in some instances been conducted for the mere sake of personal gain. . 

Mr. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. Now, is it not a mistake not to in- troduce :, separate bill for the purpose of carrying out the recommen- dation of the President '! 

Mr. SPRINGER. I have introduced a bill, but the only place where 

it caD be enacted is on an appropriation bill. You can not make these 

changes unless you accompany them with appropriations which are to 

pay the expenses. If this legislation should be injected into the middle 

of a current year you would have to stop at once and change the whole 

system; because we appropriate salaries in this amendment, and un- der the old law we appropriated fees. 

1\ir. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. You could make your appropriation 

to fit your new law. · 

:Mr. SPRINGER. You could make it on an appropriatio}l bill, and 

then you come down just exactly to where this brings you- to an appropriation bill. And this is the proper appropriation bill, and there- fore we have placed the amendment upon this bill. 

Not only did the President make this recommendation, but the Attorney-General in very eloquent and earnest language urged this Houseto do away with this corrupting fee system. Resaid in hisreportlast 

fall: 

The practice of compensating the United States marshals by fees is an expen- sive one. Examiners of the Department of Justice who have been detailed to examine their accounts report that in order to make the maximum fees of the office $6,000 per annum, unscrupulous marshals, in some instances through their deputies, have encouraged frivolous prosecutions, outraging the rights of citizens, and involving the United States in unnecessary and excessive ex- penses. It is estimated-

! call your attention to this language of the Attorney-General: 

It is estimated that it costs the Goverument ten dollars' expenses for every- dollar's emoluments of the marshal. · 

In order that our marshals may earn $6,000 each the Government 

must expend 60,000. That is the existing law, which it is now proposed to perpetuate by receding from our position. nder the bill a 

it now si:.o'Ulds, as proposed by the committee of which I am chariman, 

instead of costing the Government 60,000, it will cost $6,000 only. 

The Attorney-General goes on to say: · 

Thus it will appear that it would be to the inte rest of the Government to give the marshal a fixed compensation, so as to remove all inducements to practice· frauds upon the Government on the one hand or wrongs upon the citizen ou the other. If the deputy were to be paid fees for executing process it would in-· sure the same efficiency as the present fee system, and at the same time relieve the Department of the extraordinary expenses complained of, as the marshal would h a ve no interest in encouraging such practices. 

That is what this bill does, precisely following the recommendations. 

of the President and the Attorney-General, and doing so with a labor 

that in my judgment is unparalleled in the history of Congress since I 

have been a member, in the diligence with which we have pursued thesubject for the purpose of arriving at the truth. And the members of" 

the committee will bear me out in saying that there has been no partisanship displayed, and we have uniformly acted as a unit and not been 

divided on this important question. Now let us see what the Attorney-General says has been the practice under the present system: 

Since my report to Congress, other investigations have been made by officers· of the Department of Justice charged with the duty of examining the account of con.rt officers in the several districts, which have confirmed my opin1on as to the urgent necessity for the proposed legislation. Citizens haye been repeatedly arrested on frivolous and trumped-up charges, and similar outmges have been practiced in some districts to such an extent as to render the Government odious to the people, making them hostile to the courts of the United States. The results of these investigations in detail have been given to your commit- tee in the testimony of tke examiners of the Department of Justice and in their· reports. 

A strong argument in favor of a change in the law is that the most faithful and conscientious officers, attorneys, and marshals desire it, while any change is- opposed by persons who are wrongfully using the process of the court at the expense of the citizen and the Government, harassing the one and plundering- the other. 

Experience has shown that few persons are able to resist the temptations- to increase their fees, though they differ in their methods. Those wholly d e- praved render accounts for which no service whatever has been performed. 

Others, more. fearful of detection and punishment, though equally dishonest, in- crease their compensation by charging for distances greater than they have· traveled; and still ot-hers seek every opportunity to manufacture cases, arrest- ing persons reported to have committed any trivial infraction of the law, no matter how irresponsible and worthless the a-ccuser. The effect of the fee system is demoralizing, and men naturally honest and; 

disposed to do right nt first yield in time to the temptation it offers to increase their compensation by questionable means, and there is a disposition among- officers to creat-e if possible a. condition of circumstances that will enable them to secure their maximum. Disinterested people generally agree tha t the fee system has been a. failure. The remedy is to compensate court officers, as far as practicable, by fixed. sal- aries. 

I could read further from the views of the Attorney-General on this. 

subject, but I will not worry the patience of the House. 

Mr. WHITE; of Kentucky. Will the gentleman allow me--

Mr, SPRINGER. In one moment, please. Now, as to whether this. 

is hasty legislation. Your committee has considered this subject all 

winter, and when the first draught of the bill was prepared it was sent 

to the several Departments of the Government which were required 

to execute it. The result of the investigation by the departmental 

officers is detailed in a letter from the Attorney-GeneraJ. to the chair--

man of the committee, from which I will read: 

GENERAL: !have not the experience to say whether the bill submitted to me is so perfect in its details as to insure a. just and efficient administration of the law, but it hll.s been examined with care three times by the First Comptroller· and the First Auditor of the Treasury and the chiefs of their respective divisions- of the judiciary, and four t.imes, by my direction, by officers of the Departm.ent of Justice who have a practical knowledge of such matters, and they all concur- in the opinion that the bill as framed will protect the rights of the citizen and the interests of the Government, and prevent in the future a repetition of the· proceedings which, in some instances, have made an action in the United States- courts in effect a. confiscation of property. 

* * * * * * * As the general provisions of this bill are commended by those who have a praetical knowledge, and as a. change in the law is demanded by every consid- eration of eeonomy and expediency, I earnestly recommend the bill to Congress .. with the changes mentioned above, for its favorable conside ration. 

I will say that so far as the changes suggested by the Attorney-General are concerned they are all embodied in the provisions now beforeus. That provision to which he took exception in regard to the compensation of speciaJ. counsel was ruled out on a point of order made hy 

ruy colleague [l'tfr. CANNON]. Therefore there has been cli minaku. from this measure before it passed the House eYery single item whid1. 

-

I 

. 
! 

I 

•. 

I 

~ -- = 

6122 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSEo JULY 5, 

was objected to by any of the accounting officers of the Treasury Department. 

It was examined three times in the Treasury Department on three 

different draughts of the bill, and their propositions were concurred in by 

the committee. It was exPmined four times in the Department of 

Justice .by all the law officers there who had any experience in the 

courts: They have pronounced this measure one of economy and expediency, and not only that but one for the relief of the oppressed 

people of this country who are harassed by frivolous prosecutions. 

Gentlemen on the other side may hardly believe me when I tell them 

that in one county in the State of Alabama every citizen was arrested 

on frivolous charges. And in one county in the Sta,te of Texas on one 

eccasion every voter was summoned as a witness in the courts and car- ried to an adjoining county at great expense to the Government in order 

that the marshal might earn his fees, when it was testified that twenty 

witnesses in the suit would have been ample to cover every point at issue 

in it. 

This unlimited J>OWer on the part of the deputy marshals enables 

them to raid the country and summon the citizens of a whole county 

and compel them to go from one part of the State to another, to dragthem to where the court is, 6r before a commissioner where they can 

not give security for ~ts, where they will be away from their friends 

and those who know them and will vouch for them, and so multiply 

the costs in the suit. 

Not only this; but it has encouraged and sanctioned the worst system of constructive mileage and constructive meals and constructive 

service that has ever been known in any country iu the world. I will 

give an instance which has been established before the committee and 

which is an illustration of many others. In the State of Illinois, where 

I had supposed these things did not exist, the marshal, as was shown 

by the evidence, made a contract with three of his deputies by which 

they were to earn, :first, his $6,000 and after that their maximum of 

$3,000 each, making the net earnings of that court, in order to realize 

the maximum of these officers in the conspiracy, $15,000. In orderto 

do this, what was done? Writs were sent to Cairo by mail and mileage charged both ways, as if some one had traveled the whole distance. Persons were arrested in the court-house at Springfield, at the 

very door of the marshal's office. The costs upon the writ at the outside would have been properly only $2.50. But that marshal or some 

of his deputies deliberately sat down in the office and wrote up a fee-bill 

which went upon the hypothesis that the marshal had sent a guard for 

the person arrested and had brought him ba-ck under guard. There 

were charges for travel and meals both ways, and the fee-bill amounted 

in that single case to $55. 

The machinery under which such outrages as these are perpetrated 

is still in existence. The proposition before the House to-night is that 

this machine shall be continued after you have been advised of the 

enormities which have been practiced under it. I hope this House 

will stand by the legislation which it has adopted. The President has 

recommended it; the Attorney-General has approved it; the Comptroller of the Treasury has commended it; all the law officers of the 

Department of Justice have examined it and pronounced it a vast improvement, a great reform. 

Every honest marshal, I believe, in the country has commended this 

proposition, even though its effect may be to reduce his salary. I have 

letters here which I could read to the exhaustion of the patience of 

members-letters from all parts of the country, saying that this measure 

is imperatively demanded by every consideration of justice to the Government and justice to the citizen. 

It has been shown, Mr. Speaker, that these oppressions on frivolous 

prosecutions have become so great in some localities that, as appears by 

one of the official departmental reports, the officers of the Government 

are regarded as public enemies. This system has in many localities 

made th~ Government odious in the enforcement of its criminal law, 

because the Government has .perpetrated such outrages upon its citizens. The laws should be administered in a spirit offairness and justice, 

o that even the citizen who has done wrong shall1·espect and revere the arm which punishes him. But under this system the officer of the 

law is_regarded as a tyrant and the Government of the country as an ~ngine of oppression. , · 

I ask the House to stand by this proposition. If Senators would 

only take time to have some of their supernumerary secretaries read 

t he e provisions over to them they would understand the measure and 

would agree that it should be passed. 

:U.r. RANDALL. I yield five minutes to the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. HERBERT]. . 

l\fr. HERBERT. Mr. Speaker, the gentleman from Penn.Sylvania 

[Mr. BROWN] asks why bills on this subject have not been introduced 

and referred to appropriate committees. In the last Congress I introduced three bills covering fully all the propositions embraced in thi~ 

.amendment offered by Mr. SPRINGER to the appropriation bill in this 

Congress, and had them referred to the Judiciary Committee. In the 

present Congress I again introduced those bills and they went again 

before the Judiciary Committee. The committee of which the gentleman from Illinois is chairman took up this subject when it began the 

investigation of expenditures in the Department of Justice, and with 

the aid of the Attorney-General and the appropriate officers of the Treasury Department considered these questions fully. I had frequent 

conferences with the Attorney-General and these officials of the Treasury 

Department in relation to these bills. Not only the present AttorneyGeneral favors these changes, but his predec~r, 1\fr. De,·ens, was in 

favor of them. I have made this matter a special study for years past, 

and ha•e been during that time attempting in every possible way to 

give to my colleagues on this floor such information as would secure 

the passage of some 1p.easure of this. kind through Congress. Perhap 

no bill ever sent from this House to the other was more thoroughly 

and fairly considered before asking the action of the House upon it 

than the bill containing these three propositions as to marshals, district attorneys, and commissioners. 

All the officers of the Treasury Department whose business it is to 

pass upon the accounts of marshals, district attorneys, and commissioners have considered every one of these propo itions. The salaries 

of the different marshals and district attorneys throughout the United 

States have been adjusted with reference to the accounts which ha>e 

been presented from year to year and passed upon by these officers, who 

aided in perfecting the measure. 

How, then, can the Senate saythat this question has not been fairly 

considered? · The consideration, too, has been entirely non-partisan. I 

think I ought to say here that this country owes thanks to AttorneyGeneral Brewster for the fairness and thoroughness with which he has 

investigated this whole subject. Under his direction and control the 

frauds with which we are now familiar have been unearthed. Not only 

in Texas, Alabama, South Carolina, and other States South, but even 

in the Attorney-General's own State of Pennsylvania the whole system 

has been shown to be rotten to the core: The people demand reform. 

The system is vicious. It must be cut up root and branch. We must 

no longer make sale of justice. Nothing was ever more palpably shown 

to be needed than the passage of this bill, and, as I have said before, no 

bill was ever more thoroughly and carefully considered. 

It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, the Senate ought to take time under 

these circumstances to consider this question, to read over and consider 

this bill, and ought to pass it. For myself, I believe if this Congr 

should remain in session from now to the first .Monday of next December simply for the purpose of passing this bill, the time would be well 

spent. 

[Here the hammer fell. J 

ENROLLED BILL SIGNED. 

Mr. PERKINS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

they had examined and found truly enrolled a bill (H. R. 7440) making appropriations for fortifications and other works of defen e, and for 

the armament thereof, for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, n.nd for 

other purpo es; when the Speaker signed the same. 

SUNDRY CIVIL BILL. 

Mr. RANDALL. I now yield to the gentleman from Colorado for 

five minutes. 

Mr. BELFORD. Mr. Sp~ker, it was my fortune during the Ter'ritorial period of Colorado to occupy a position on the bench for six years. 

All the abuses described by the gentleman from illinois [Mr. SPRINGER] 

were practiced at that time, until I personally interfered and declared 

they should go no further. Poor men, practically without a dollar, were 

carried over my district and because they could not pay their fees 

were put into jail under alleged violation of the Government law and 

by Government officers, by what was called the United States marshal 

and the district attorney. · 

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message was received from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK,'its Secretary, announcing the passage without amendment of a bill (H. R. 4985) 

supplemental to and amendatory of an act to incorporate the :Mutual 

Fire Insurance Company of the District of Columbia. 

The message also announced that the Senate further insisted on it 

amendment 1fi8 to the bill (H. R. 6770) making appropriations for the 

consular and diplomatic service of the Government for the fiscal year 

ending June 30, 1 5 and for other purposes, and asked a conference 

on the disagree~· g v es of the two Houses, and had appointed as man- agers of said confe nee on its part Mr . . ALLISON, Mr. H.ALE, and l\lr. 

COCKBELL. 

SUNDRY CIVIL BU.L. 

Mr. BELFOR . I say these men were dragged all over that district-for what purpose? Because they had gone there and cut a stick 

of timber to cook their beefsteak, or because they had sawed out o. 

board to build their houses, when the Government would not sell the 

land because it was mineral land. On account of the e things these 

men became so offensive to om Western people that, although they 

were Government officers, we drove them out of the State; and thank 

God for it! 

How could we get a log to build our cabins unless we went to the 

public domain? How could we cut a log to build our churches unless 

we went on the public domain that the Government would not ell us 

because it was mineral? Yet every poor devil in that State who bad not 

money enough to. cook his beefsteak or erect a church or construct his 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6123 

house was brought into court by these snobby officials sent out by the 

Government, and their chief occupation was to rob the pioneers who had 

made a great and magnificent Commonwealth that contributes to this 

nation over $30,000,000 a year. 

I believe in fixing the salaries of these men, limiting them absolutely 

a:nd conclusively, affording them no opportunity whatever to oppress 

.and outrage the people. What has. been done in the past may be done 

in the future; and let us girdle the possibilities of the future by the 

magnificent mandates of public law, and stop these oppressions and 

robberies that to my personal knowledge went on there for years and 

years. 

~ Ju t stop that gavel for a moment, Mr. Speaker. I stopped those 

abu es, and because I stopped them the Government of the United 

States removed me from my position as a judge of that Territory. I 

propose now to get even with the Government that was blindly enforcing the law covering abuses about which it knew nothing. 

[Here the hammer fell.l 

l\Ir. RANDALL. I yield to the gentleman from Maine. · Mr. REED. I wish to address the Honse a few moments on this subject, because it seems to me there has been one or two erroneous impressions given by gentlemen who have spoken. In the first place the gentleman from Alabama [:Mr. HERBERT], and I am a little bit surprised a gentleman of his careful forethought should make such a suggestion, 

.sa,ys to "~!§..there is no reason in theSenateobjection; theyhavenothad 

time to consider this bill because the Attorney-General and two Auditors have considered it. Well, it now so happens the Attorney-General 

and the two Auditors are precisely the individuals who have no right 

to pass legislation and the Senate of the United States are people who 

have that right. It seems to me that he has confounded the objection 

()f Senators that they have not had time to consider it with the general 

idea that somebody else had the right to consider it. 

Now, allow me to make a few suggestions, for I do not think it is an €ntirely one-sided subject, in opposition to the views expressed by 

orne gentlemen upon this floor. 

.Mr. HERBERT. Will the gentleman allow me a moment? 

Mr. REED. Assuredly. 

1\Ir. HERBERT. I wish to state to the gentleman that I simply 

meant to suggest the idea that if the Senate should undertake to conider bills of this kind they would be compelled in the very nature of 

things to apply to the Departments for full and thorough information on the subject, and that full and thorough information is furnished by 

t he results of this bill. They would have to look there to get the information they ought to have,.and which this committee bas furnished 

in the preparation of this bill. 

Mr. REED. That is just exactly the time they have not had, and 

(;Onsequently the gentleman froui Alabama admits the proposition. 

But I wish to make a suggestion or two in regard to the general 

merits, not for the purpose of urging upon the Honse my views with 

reference to thE\ subject, but merely for the purpose of showing that 

seru;ible or plausible views at least may be entertained upon the other 

ide. It is one·of·the great evils and difficulties of legislation that men 

take up a case of occasional outrages and paint the whole subject that 

color. That is undoubtedly a very grave mistake. There are outrages 

and there are evils under any system of law, but if we undertook to 

repeal all laws that men twisted or made injurious use of we should 

not have any revised statutes of the United States. 

Ur. Speaker, I have been enabled to give some slight examination 

to this subject myself. Originally it was presented to the Judiciary' 

Committee, and at the first sight the plausibleness on the face of it 

took me as well as others. Why not? I said. The county attorneys 

in the various States of the Union have salaries paid to them, and 

they perform their duties faithfully; what reason, then, can there be ~ why the same system shall not work equally well in the United States 

court? That was, I say, my :first impression; but, sir, a careful con- sideration of the subject will satisfy any man that the cases are totally 

different. Now you want to set against human self-interest the ..,elf- interest of other people, and unless you do it, in a long run you are going to be beaten. 

I remember some gentleman very anxiously and earnestly came here 

to repeal every inducement for the prosecution of frauds upon .the 

tariff, and it was done with a_great hurrah, with the applause of the 

newspapers and the general good-will of good men _.:throughout the 

whole country. But when the subject is probed to the bottom it will 

be found that it has resulted in frauds upon the revenue which are a di grace to the country and an injury to the legitimate business of the 

country. It has been such an injury that all the money the informers 

got in their dubious way would not pay one-tenth of 1 per cent. of the 

damage. 

Now, the reason whysalaries arenot as good for district as for county 

attorney is because of the different nature of the crimes over which 

the courts have jurisdiction. The county attorney prosecutes mostly 

what are known as common-law crimes; and every lawyer knows how 

difficult when you come within the range of common-law crimes it is 

to procure convictions. The United States cases are not common-law 

crimes; and there is not that public feeling of assisting a prosecuting 

officer that is exhibited in the aseof crimes against the States. On the 

contrary, the counties do not regard smuggling or moonshining as very 

serious crimes, and there is not a public sentiment to aid and assist 

the prosecutor. 

You have every measure of self-interest arrayed against the Government, and the only self-interest arrayed upon the other side is that 

which is paid for by the public. I grant you that such a system sometimes leads to outrages on the part of bad men. There is no question 

but what it does. But as a general system it has been in existence here a hundred years, and in most p!lli:s of the United States it works 

well. And the disco>ery of a few scoundrels, the discovery of violations of the law, while that should arouse our just indignation it should 

not be made an exeuse for wholly overturning the system which has 

been so long established in this country and has worked so well. I 

desire simply to sa,y that I do not talk about this on the merits except 

so far as it may indicate that there is a reasonable ground for giving 

the Senate, the co-ordinate branch of the Government, a fair opportunity to examine into the matter. · Mr. RYAN. I offer the motion which I send to the desk, and upon 

that I call the previous qnesti.on. .Mr. RANDALL. I desire to yield :five minutes to the gentleman 

from Kentucky [Mr. WHITE]. 

Mr. RYAN. I withhold my motion until the gentleman from Kentucky shall have spoken. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. For ten years past I have been calling 

attention tO the abuses of the present system by which marshals and 

district attorneys receive the maximum of fees instead of fixed salaries; 

and the uniform answer is given that my motive must be because I 

wanted to screen moonshiners. The gentleman from Maine [Mr. REED] 

who has just taken his seat. seems to think that that is the motive that 

must influence gentlemen who oppose this fee system. He does not 

exactly say that--

1\Ir. REED. I did not say so, nor did I insinuate so. Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. The gentleman is assisting indirectly, 

perhaps not wittingly-but it is a fact he is assisting that idea carefully 

promulgated all over the United States by the men who have during 

the last six or eight years secured such legislation as would enable the 

large whisky monopoly, which now has 100,000,000 gallons in bonded 

warehouses to ripen at the expense of the United St.ates, to throw dust 

in the eyes of the legislative body. 

Now, there is a line of duty to be performed by the marshal and the 

disij):ict attorney and the United States commissioner. But they frequently overstep that line. The record shows that they do not detect 

the great violations by which the Government loses thousands of dollars in big distilleries, but that they are continually hunting up tea-kettle, tea-cup, and coffee-pot cases, and dragging poor men hundreds of 

miles to be tried. The records of the Department of J lli!tice and of the 

Revenue Dep~rtment all confirm me in the assertion that that is done 

not to carry out the duties they are sworn to perform, but on ac- count of the manner in which they are paid. They manage to run up 

costs in order to secure the maximum fees allowed. Now, if you change 

the system so as to pay these officers fixed salaries, my opinion is that 

these tea-kettle and coffee-pot cases, these trivial and often imaginary cases w hicb for the mo~t part haJve in them nothing but fees, would come to an end. Yon could find such cases here in this Capitol, on every street 

in this city. The men who keep the restaurants in this Capitol building, in either wing of it, by a joint resolution, have no right. to sell intoxicating liquor. But does any gentleman who hears me doubt if he 

wanted to get a glass of wine, or a glass of beer, or a milk-punch, or a whisky-straight in a tea-cup he can get it in this Capitol? Yet you 

know that a joint resolution of the two Houses of Congress prohibit the 

sale of intoxicating liquors on the Capitol grounds, and no one has a Gover-nment license or city license to do so. Why, sir, what would 

you think if the United States marshals should raid on them? 

Now apply that to North Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee, or Kentucky, 

and imagine a man, not a member of Congress but a poor man, living 

:fifty or a hundred miles from a railroad, who had gone to one of the 

saloons or little distilleries operated according to law there and bought a gallon of whisky or apple brandy. If he should turn around and 

give a pint of it to a man passing on the road and that man the next day 

should give him a little tobacco, raised by his own labor on his little 

farm in that remote section, that act would be construed by the beneficiaries of the miserable fee system into a violation of the law, and 

both parties would be dragged to the nearest, or rather I should say 

to the most remote, Federal court simply to run up costs against the 

United States and to secure the largest fees possible. This is not an 

imaginary case. The records are full of such cases. Then add to that the payment of constructive fees that not only in 

Illinois and Texas but in my own, State have been going on for years. 

Yon may say these things should go unnoticed. It is true they are not 

noticed as to the officers who violate the law in that way. But see how 

the man who violates the simple letter of the law is punished. He is 

dragged to the most distant Federal court. He is not able to pay his 

fees for his witnesses to attend; he is dragged off to where he can not 

get anybody ·to go on his bond. And what is the result? He must 

confess judgment, because that is recommended by his attorney as the 

quickest way to get free; and then eke, yes, eat it out at the ~vern-
6124 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

ment's expense. Such outrages can only be obliterated by abolishing 

the fee system and paying :fixed salaries to worthy officers. · 

[Here the hammer fell.] . . 

Ur. SPRINGER. I desire to make a. brief reply to the argument of 

the gentleman from Maine [~Ir. REED]. In doing this I think I can 

produce a better authority than my own individual one. I will produce the authority of the Attorney-GeneraL In his letter from which 

I have already quoted he say&: 

It has been suggested that district attorneys and marshals would be less at- tentive to their duties if paid by salary. I do not believe there is anything to fear from this source, and I do not think this objection will commend itself to Congres ; for if a district attorney or marshal neglects his duty he will doubtless be complained of by the judge or he will be reported to the Attorney-Gen- eral, either through examiners who will visit ev ery judicia l district semi-an- nually, or the officers of ot.her Departments, or in some other w ay , and such un fa ithful officer can then as now be removed from office . 

}low, as to the conclusion, the Attorney-General further states, tmd 

tha.t answers the other argument of the gentleman from Maine, and I 

am sorry he has ranged himself in the class the Attorney-General has 

de cribed: 

A strong argument in favor of a change in the law is that the most faithful 

and conscientious officers, attorneys, and marshals desire it, while any change 

is opposed by persons who are wrongfully using the process of the court at the expense of the citizen and the Government, harassing the one and plunder· ing the other. 

The Attorney-General gives as the expression of his Department, 

based upon information obtained from all of the officers with whom he 

has come in contact, that the honest class desires the change while the 

di honest class does not. 

Mr. REED. I do not see any particuJ.ar reason for the gentleman 

from illinois ranging me in ei.ther class. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I did not arraign the gentleman. 

Mr. REED. I would like a moment's time. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I have all the time that is allowed, and I have 

the right to reply to the gentleman and haverepliedinamannerwhich 

it was proper for me to reply in. I have simply stated what the law 

officer of the Government has said. And it is the opinion of the committee of which I am chairman that those who advocate the fee system 

are those who are profiting by it for illegitimate and unlawful purpo es, while the officers of the Government desire a change in the system. 

Mr. REED. I would now like to say a. word. 

The SPEAKER. The time has expired for debate on the pending 

proposition. The Chair understands that the gentleman from Kansas 

[!tir. RYAN] desires to submit a motion. 

lir. RYAN. I submit the proposition which I send to the Clerk's 

de k. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Kansas moves that the House 

recede fi·om its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate and agree 

to the same. 

~Ir. RANDALL. I understood that the gentleman desired to move 

that the House recede from its disagreement and agree with an amendment. 

~Ir. RYAN. The othermotion will follow. 

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read the proposition of the gentle- man from Kansas. 

The Clerk read ·as follows: 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 243,258, 200, 261,262,263,264,265, 2&>, 268,269, and 270, and agree to the same. 

:\Ir. RYAN. I now yield :fiveminutes ofmytime to the gentleman 

from Maine f.:~Ir. REED]. 

Mr, REED. I have no reply to make--

1\Ir. SPRINGER. One word before the gentleman proceeds. :My 

attention has been called by the gentleman from Texas [Mr. WELLBORN] to a remark of mine which would seem to indicate that I consider 

that the gentleman from Maine placed himself in the class described 

by t he Attorney-General. I did not mean to say that, and if I did say 

it I withdraw those words. 

l\Ir. REED. Then I will make no reply to them but will proceed to a 

point upon which I desire to speak. I am gla<ltthe gentlenian has withdrawn that remark, for it was rather an unpleasant statement to me 

and would have called for a reply. 

Ur. SPRINGER. I do not desire to reflect upon the gentleman in . the slightest. 

Mr. REED. I simply desire to say in reply to the suggestions which 

the gentleman has quoted from the Attorney-General that in my judgment-and the House will understand that I am only presenting some 

impressions which might possibly show that there were grounds for 

giving the Senate an opportunity to consider this matter-the AttorneyGeneral has the impression that good persons desire to receive salaries, 

~d that there will be no ill effect to follow from the giving of salaries, 

becau e there is such an opportunity to prosecute and to remove from 

office district attorneys. 

l\Iy experience in life has been different from that of the AttorneyGeneral. I have found that in all official positions laxity must proceed 

almost to the extent of crime before the removal of the officer from office takes place, especially when the officer is surrounded by a community 

desirous of violating the law. 

I have pointed out that United States laws do not punish things which are evil in them elves, but evils which are only statute evils. The very 

community which the man is in will be the very last to complain of 

him for quietly drawing his salary and quietly neglecting the enforcement of the laws. 

And this gives me an opportunity of saying more plainly than I aid 

before that the danger I fear is that the self-intere t of the community 

may prove too strong for the ense of public duty of the officer. I do not 

mean by that that he will neglect his duty to such an extent as to mak e 

himself liable to removal from office. But I do mean that there will 

be such a lax administration oflaw that in the end the expen~e of the 

Government will be much greater than any saving that can be made as 

to the matter of fees. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I would like to ask the· gentleman from Kansa a 

question. 

~Ir. RYAN. Very well. 

Mr. HISCOCK. As these appropriation bills have come in h ere from time to time I have di ·covered, I think, that all of the legislation 

which tho e bills carried has been eliminated from them. I belie>e that in all instances legislation has been stricken out by the Senat e. 

1\Ir. RANDALL. Oh, no . • 

Mr. HISCOCK. Now, I suppose the gentleman from Kansas must 

know about what the sense of the Senate is on that subject. I it a 

principle with the Senate that our appropriation bills should not carry 

legislation? 

Mr. RANDALL. I would like to answer that question. I would 

ask the gentleman if it is not new legislation for Senators to provide 

clerks for themselves? 

Mr. TUCKER. And they insist upon our receding from any legislation which we may have put upon these bills. 

Mr. REED. We will stand by you in that matter of the clerks. 

1\ir. RYAN. · So far as this bill is concerned the Senate conferees have 

agreed to surrender any legislation that was put on the bill that was 

objected to by the conferees on the part of the House. 

1\Ir. SPRINGER. If the gentleman from New York will look at 

page 51 of the bill he will :find page after page oflegislation put on by 

the Senate. 

Mr. RANDALL. Yes; and the case is the same on every bill where 

it suits them to put on legislation. · 

?tfr. HISCOCK. If I may be allowed a single moment, I wish to say 

that in times past both the Senate and the House have been accustomed 

to put legislation upon appropriation bills; but as I remember-and I 

will appeal to the gentleman from Pennsylvania to say whether I am 

correct in the statementr-the rule has been that whenever legislation 

has been proposed by one House upon a general appropriation bill and 

objected to by the other it has always gone out. 

Mr. RANDALL. We have an instance to-night when it doe not go 

out, because the Senate chooses to insist. 

~Ir. HISCOCK. In what instance? 

Mr. RANDALL. Why, sir, in the matter of clerks to Senator . I 

will give another instan~the appropriation of 250,000 asked for the 

Nicarnoaua matter, upon which we are compelled to vote blindly. That 

was put in by the Senate. 

~Ir. CANNON. That is under a provision of the Revised Statute . 

Mr. HISCOCK. I presume the Senate will say in reference to t hat 

250,000 that it is not legislation, that it is si.J?.ply the appropriation of 

a sum of money under a statute. There is a statutory provision that a 

certain sum may be put at the disposal of the 4-dministration or the 

President for use as a secret fund. Now, I do not understand t hat it i 

new legislation for the Senate to ask that a certain sum be appropriated 

for such use. Hence I must differ with the gentleman from P ennsyl- vania on that question. 

Mr. RANDALL. Why, on the naval bill the Senate has undertaken 

to compel us to agree to new legislation. 

l\Ir. HISCOCK. Mr. Speaker, I have supposed that if we are t o reach 

any understanding whatever between the two House we are to reach it 

upon the basis that all which is in fact new legislation hall go out of 

all the bills. 

l\Ir. RANDALL. In the discussion in the Senate in reference to the 

provision for the construction of the new cruisers one of the o-:::enators 

from Iaine stated distinctly, in reply to a question by a Senator from 

Delaware, that he wanted the Howse again to have an opportunity of 

expressing its o~jection in regard to the cruisers. 

1\Ir. HISCOCK. I know nothing about that. 

Mr. RANDALL. I do; here is the record. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Well, take the case of the new cruisers if you please. 

It has been ruled in this House by one of the ablest parliamentarian of the House that the placing upon an appropriation bill of a sum: of 

money for the construction of a. new cruiser or ship is not new legi la- tion. It was so held in the last Congress by the then chairman of t he Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, the gentle- man from Iowa [Mr. KAsso~], who certainly is regarded as a very able 

~ 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6125 

parliamentarian. I will admit, however, that it is a question upon 

which I myselfhave >ery serious doubts. · 

Mr. RANDALL. Then I do not need to answer you on that point. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I repeat that in regard to any provision in a general appropriation bill which is confessedly new legislation, and is objected to by the House other than that in which it originated, the 

rule always has been that it should go out of the bill. We have had 

erious contests upon questions of that kind, and such has always been 

the result. Hence it seems to me that if this is the ground upon which 

the Senate places itself, we have nothing to do but to agree to that 

rule, if we expect the two Houses to come together upon these appropriation bills. 

!llr. RYAN. I yield five minutes to the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. BAYNE]. 

Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Speaker, I rise not so much for the purpose of 

discussing this question as more particularly to enter myprotestagainst 

this kind of legislation, and against the spirit and meaRing of the proposition known as the "Springer amendment." 

Mr. SPRINGER. You must admit that this measure would ha>e 

sa-.;-ed a good deal of money in Western Pennsylvania if it had been 

enforced there. 

Mr. BAYNE. I do not care whether it applies to Pennsylvania or 

el ewhere; I say that the adoption of this proposition will eliminate 

from the administration of justice in this country every el.ement that 

should make it effective. There is nothing more certain than that the 

marshals, district attorneys, and other officers are stimulated to the 

efficient performance of their duties by the fees they receive. There is 

nothing more certain than that when officers of this class are paid stated 

salaries they neglect their duties. 

Mr. SPRINGER. The gentleman will allow me to say that be misapprehends this proposition. Under the present law the deputies are 

obliged to divide their fees with the marshal, who performs no duty. 

Under the provision now proposed the deputy gets the whole amount 

of the fees, and will be better paid for honest work than under the 

existing law. . 

Mr. BAYNE. That does not meet the case. 

Mr. SPRil~GER. It does . . You said he must have an incentive. 

He earns more for honest work' under this than under the old one. 

Mr. BAYNE. That is not the effect of it. We have tried this sytem in Pennsyl>ania. 

Mr. SPRINGER. It has worked out and exposed the fact of a defalcation there to a vast amount. 

Mr. BAYJ:I.TE. It is working a serious disadvantage there. The sheriff's office paid, when fees were allowed, some 60,000 a year, and with 

six officials the office was well and efficiently carried on. Since they 

have adopted the sy tern of paying salaries the1·e are fourteen or fifteen 

men employed, and the surplus is a mere nothing that goes into the 

county treasury. In Allegheny we find the same thing. The district 

attorney received fees until a few years ago, when they paid him a salary, and the amount that goes into the treasury of the county is merely a nominal sum. 

Neglect, sir, arises on every hand when you adopt a system of this 

kind. The only thing which will stimulate the active prosecution of 

duties by officers is they shall have fees. The principle of this proposition is essentially vicious. It is calculated to disarm the administration of justice of that energy and efficiency which should characterize 

it and go with it e\erywhere. 

l\1r. PRING ER. Would the gentleman encourage officers in making 

frivolous prosecutions for the mere purpose of collecting fees? 

Mr. BAYNE. :No, I would not. I would impeach them. You say 

under your bill when a man lacks in duty he can be relieved. Why 

can not you under the present law impeach a man and remove him 

when he neglects his duty? If you can reach the one you can reach 

the other. The difficulty is no greater in the one case than in the 

other. If it is in the power of the Government to censure or hold 

amenable to the law an officer for violation of duty, it is equally within 

its power to make amenable to the law a~y officer for neglect of duty. 

You can reach the offending party in either instance; but the fact that 

the Government fails to bring these men to account who have been lax 

in the discharge of their duty indicate that it is much easier to make 

out a case against a man who affirmatively violates the bw than against 

a man who merely neglects his duty. Therefore you ee the fault you 

visit on the present system is ·visited with double force on the system 

you propose. 

Mr. SPRINGER. The gentleman says it is easier to pro ecute the 

actual offender than a man who n.eglect.s hi duty. 

1r. BAYNE. Yes. 

Ur. SPRI:NGER. Does he not know the marshal of the western district of P~~sylvania, was a defaulter to a 11.rge amount, and has be 

moved his Impeachment? Were you wift to come here and arraign 

him because he wa-, defrauding the Government? 

Mr. BAYNE. Have gentlemen been swift to do it on that ide of 

the House? 

Mr. SPRINGER. Did you do it? 

Mr. BAYNE. _ I will answer the gentleman Lola Montez fashion. 

Has any body been swift to bring to justice any man who has summoned 

witnesses from the whole country into the United States courts for the 

purpo e of piling up the fees? Has anybody been swift to do that? 

l\Ir. HERBEI-a. I have been doing it right along at the Department of Justice. 

Mr. BAYNE. I did not know about the defalcation in that office. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

1\lr. RYAN. While I believe myself this legislation to have much 

merit, yet its merits are at least debatable. There is a difference of 

opinion among men who are well informed in re.:,o-ard to it and who are 

honest and conscientious in the judgment they have formed. But it 

is not now so much a question of the merits of this controversy a 

whether the House ought to in tke last hours of the session in ist on 

this legislation when they have given the Senate of the United State 

no fair opportunity to consider it. 

What are the facts? Here is legislation that overturns a system that 

has lasted since the very foundation of the Government. Do you expect the co-ordinate branch of this Congress, a part of the lawmaking 

power, the Senate of the United States, to accept the a-ction of the House 

in regard to this measure without mature consideration? If you do, it 

seems to me you are expecting from that body what they ought not to 

be required to yield. I think it a fair thing for this House to do if we 

desire an early adjournment, if we desire that in the next twenty-four 

hours this Congress shall be adjourned, that we recede from thi~ legislation, and therefore· I call the previous question on the motion I have 

ent to the Clerk's desk. 

The previous question was ordered. 

The SPEAKER. The question now is on agreeing to the motion of 

the·gentleman from Kansas that the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate indicated and agree to the same. 

The question was taken. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 64, noes 30. 

Mr. SPRINGER. No quorum. 

The SPEAKER. The point of order being made that no quorum 

has voted, the Chair will apoint tellers. 

Mr. SPRINGER and :Ur. RYAN were appointed tellers. 

Mr. CULBERSON, of Texas. I ask the yeas and nay . 

The yeas and nays were not ordered. 

The House again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 7 , noes 38. 

1\lr. SPRINGER. I have to insist upon a quorum on a measure of 

this kind. 

The SPEAKER. The tellers will resume their pla-ces. 

The House again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 83, noes 45. 

l\Ir. SPRINGER. I do not desire to prolong this truggle at this late 

hour after the Hou e has been in session about twenty hours continuously. I withdraw the point of no quarum and let the vote stand. 

But I give notice to the House that I shall not withdraw this measure 

from the consideration of Congress. I shall be .a member of the next 

Congress as I am a member of this, and I will agitate this subject until 

it becomes the law oftheland. [Applause.] 

l'rlr. RY A.N moved to reconsider the vote by which the motion was 

agreed to; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on 

the table. . 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Mr. RYAN. I now offer a furthermotion, which I send to the desk. 

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 253, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu 

of the sum proposed in said amendment insert " $600,000;" and after said amend- ment insert as a new paragraph: 

"For compensation of the district marshals of the United tates, 12,700." 

The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. RYAN moved to reconsider the vote by which the motion was 

agreed to; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion wa agreed to. ..-

Mr. RYAN. I now offer the following: 

That the Hou e recede :t'tom its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate 

numbered 254, 255,2.56 2.57, and agree to the same with amendments as follow!:! : In lieu of the sum proposed in the amended paragraph in ert "$325,000; " and 

insert a a new paragraph: · "For compensation of the district attorneys of the United States, $20,100." 

The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. RYAN moved to reconsider the vote by which the amendment 

was agreed to; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on 

the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BU INESS. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. I move that the Hou e do now adjourn. [Criesof ' No.' '_To!'] 

Mr. GIBSON. I move that the House take a recess until 9 o'clock. 

Several MEMBER . Say 10 o clock. 

Mr. GIBSON. Very well; I will modify it, and say 10 o'clock. 

The SPEAKER. The motion to adjourn i pending. The question 

is first on that motion. 

The motion was not agreed to. 

1\Ir. GIBSON. I now insist on my motion fora recess. 
6126 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Mr. HOLMAN. l\Ir. Speaker, it seems to me that it will facilitate 

the adjonrtunent of Congress if the recess be postponed until a later 

hour-as late as 2 or 3 o'clock. The Chairman of the Committee on 

.Appropriations is now on the floor, and I hope he will express his views 

upon that subject. 

Mr. GIBSON. I am willing to name any hour that will snit the 

Committee on .Appropriations. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I think if a recess is taken until 2 o'clock the business will be in a better shape than if we remain in session during that 

time. 

Mr. RANDALL. I see the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. BuRNES] 

is on the floor, and I hope he will express his opinion. 

Mr. BURNES. I beg to say, sir, that I would accept the proposition 

of my friend and colleague on the committee from Indiana if I thought 

it would facilitate the business of the House, but I am quite sure that 

there is one matt-er that can not be considered at 3 o'clock if the 

members of this House, or some of them at least., once retire. I will 

say I am· conscious, in fact I am certain, that if this House ta,kes a 

recess or adjourns it had better be until Monday morning, because we 

ought to go on now without a recess and conclude this matter, or else 

adjourn until Monday morning, for, as I have said, you can not consider a single matter until Monday if you do not consider it now. 

[Cries of'' Go on!"] 

The SPEAKER. The question is upon the motion of the gentleman 

from West Virginia [Mr. Grn ON] that the House now take a recess 

till 9 o'clock. 

The motion was not agreed to. 

CONSULAR AND DIPLOMATIC . BILL. 

l\Ir. BURNES. I submit a conference report on the consular and 

diplomatic appropriation bill. 

The Clerk read as follows: The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendment of the Senate numbered 158 to the bill of the House No. 6770, 

making appropriations for the consular and diplomatic service of the Govern- ment for the fiscal year ending June 30,1885, and for other purposes, having met, after full and free conference have been unable to agree on the amendment of the Senate numbered 158. · 

J. N. BURNES, R. W. TOWNSHEND, W. D. WASHBURN, 

Managers on the part of the House. 

W. B. ALLISON, EUGENE HAT,E, F. l\1. COCKRELL, 

Managers on the part of th~ Senate. 

The SPEAKER. The question is on the acceptance of the report. 

Mr. BELFORD. I desire to have that amendment read. · 

The SPEAKER. That is not involved in the question as to the acceptance of the report. It will come up afterward. 

The report was accepted. 

Mr. BURNES. I move that the House further insist on its disagreement to the Senate amendment numbered 158. 

The SPEAKER. The amendment will be read . 

The Clerk read as follows: To meet the necessary expenses attendant upon foreign intercourse, to be ex- pended under the direction of the President, pursuant to the requirement of section 291 of the Revised Statutes, $250,000, or so much thereof as may be nec- essary. 

l\Ir. BURNES addressed the House. [See .Appendix.] 

~Ir. BLOUNT. ltlr. Speaker, the scheme to build the Nicaragua 

Canal is not a new one to this country. During the last Congress a 

bill was reported at the instance of the gentleman: who owned this 

concession providing for a guaranty of 3 per cent. on $75,000,000 for 

twenty years. Among the incorporators are U. S. Grant, E. D. l\forgan, Daniel Ammen, S. L. Phelps, now the Peruvian minister, who according to the newspapers has strong confidential relations with these 

parties here, who is now in this capital, and has been stated a few days 

ago to hold confidential communications with the Committee on Foreign .Affairs in connection with this important work. That scheme, 

sir, was argued for months before the Committ~ on Foreign Affairs, of 

which I had the honor at that time to be a member. Among the first 

arguments urged in favor of that measm·e was that it was exceedingly 

important that this Government should take hold of it; that they desired their own country should have control of that canal, the regulation of its freights, the regulation of transportation across it. It was 

alleged as an inducement that now the commerce of the country had to 

go by way of Cape Horn. 

We were ·told, sir,. by these gentlemen with an unqualified declaration that the Panama Canal could not possibly be built. We were 

told that at that very time every laborer had been withdrawn, and 

that they could not command the money for the purpose; and yet before the expiration of a very few weeks the evidence was before that 

committee that there were thoUS::l.nds of hands at work on the Panama 

Canal, and at the very hour this person, the Peruvian minister, who was agitating it before Congress, was alleging that there were no hands and no money, and the work could not . be done. And a few weeks later 

Mr. De Lesseps, it was announced in the press of the country and before all men, had negotiated for all the money that was required for 

tht\ work to carry out the project to its completion. 

Then we were told that there was no difficulty about building it; 

that there were ample funds to be obtained in various directions and 

no difficulty at all upon the subject; and also that their desire was to 

interest the Government of the United State.~ in it for the purpose of 

having control over it when completed. Months have elapsed and they 

have failed to accomplish anything, and now they are here attempting 

to terrify this House with the idea that France or England want to get 

control of it. 

Mr. EATON. What evidence is there of that? 

Mr. BLOUNT. What evidence is there of it? 

Mr. EATON. If my friend will pardon me for a moment. He asserted that he had heard that S. L. Phelps had been before the Committee on Foreign .Affairs. 

l\Ir. BLOUNT. I did not, sir. 

Mr. EATON. I so understood you. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I stated that the newspapers of Washington announced that fact, and that I was not in confidential relations with the 

State Department, and could only speak from what I saw in the newspapers. 

Mr. EATON. But I hope the gentleman will permit me a moment 

on this point. 

l\Ir. BLOUNT. If the gentleman from l\Iissouri will yield to me 

additional time I will submit to any interruption. 

Mr. EATON. I supposed you would like to be set right. 

Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman from Connecticut will pardon me. 

I want to be perfectly courteous, but I have but. a very few minutes 

and I must request not to be interrupted. 

~Ir. BURNES. It may be well for me to say in this connection that 

the gentleman to whom he alludes, who is the minister to a court of 

South America, was summoned to Washington viaNicaragua, and in 

all,human probability in the interest of this appropriation. I do not 

know that he was paid to lobby on this floor for the enterprise. 

Mr. BLOUNT. Mr. Speaker, I Will proceed with my remarks. 

Now gentlemen are claiming that the Panama Canal can not be built. 

The country is full of such reports. But the distinguished engineer 

having control of that project, the man who built the Suez Canal with 

the solid voice of Europe crying out it was destined to be inevitably a 

failure ; with all the governments of Europe throwing all the ob tacles 

possible in his way, and yet conscious of his own power, conscious of 

the creations of his genius to enable him to overcome all obstacles that 

beset his way and to achieve a grand success-that distinguished engineer, with the confidence and capital of France at his back, is now 

pursuing the great work. So that as far as this allegation that we 

must go around by Cape Horn is concerned, there is nothing in it. 

There is nothing in it any longer. The commerce of the world is de -

tined, in my judgment, to havethisway acrosstheisthmusofPanarua 

by the success of this canal. 

Where, then, sir, is the necessity of our constructing this one? We 

are told that it is to keep France and England from getting control and 

violating the Monroe doctrine. What about Panama? Why not go 

there at once and look to that and see that no government i8 interfering at that point? My friend here on my right says you should have 

done it. Well, you did not do it, and you are not trying to do it to-day. 

There is something else in this, and I think my friend from l\fissouri 

[Ur. BuR~TES] in a confidential way has given some idea as to what it 

was. 

Now, Mr. Speaker, the proposition, in the li.ght of what we have 

known going on about this Capitol in connection With this schel\1e for 

months and years, does appear to my mind to create a ground for suspicion such as has been already suggested by the gentleman in charge 

of this report. What is it we are asked to do? To give $250,000 as a 

secret-service fund, while we in control of the revenues of the Government are not to be told what it is for ! It will not do. The information is given recently that this secret-service fund is nothing less than 

an attempt to commit the Government finally to the building of thi 

canal. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Then we do not want it. 

Ur. BLOUNT. No; as the gentleman from Arkansas say , we do 

not want it. We might have had it years ago if we desired it. I haYe 

heard of nobody seeking it from any authentic source. The e gentlemen have gone and obtained a conce ion and they ha"'"e had it for yea1 ; 

and if there is to be anything gathered from their conduct in attempting to influence legislation they got it for the purpose of making money 

out of it. But they failed to get the scheme through here in the light 

of debate. 

The false statements in reference to the scheme were exposed as soon 

as ma:de; and my judgment is, if we bad the truth ofthis whole matter out to-day, if everything was uncovered and all the parties to this 

transaction were known and the scheme de"'"eloped, this House would 

not dare to put its hand to this work. 

Build the canal in Nicaragua? Is that the policy of the administration? Is that to be the policy of the party in power? Where do you 

get the authority to build a canal in a foreign country? If you build 

it in Nicaragua in the interest of com.p1erce, what will you do down in 

South America? Why,· sir, you will have a great deal of the same sort 

of work. British capital has gone there, and is building railroads all 
=- -

, 

1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6127 

over those countries. Shall we, apprehending something may occur, 

take up these railroad-building projects-and they are already proposed 

to us-in these South American republics? If we do this, we will 

not hesitate to go on with the other. . ~Ir. CULBERSON, of Texas. What do they propose to do with 

this money? 

Mr. BLOUNT. My friend from Texas ~ks me how this 250,000 

. is to be used. 

Mr. CULBERSON, of Texas. How do they propose to apply it? 

1\Ir. BLOUNT. I will say to my friend I am not in the confidence 

of the administration, and can only guess about these matters and infer from what the gentlemen who are in its confidence have told us. 

I suppose, as it is a secret-service fund, that it is to be used for the 

purpose of corrupting some officials down in Nicaragua in the interest 

of this scheme. From what I can learn, and my information is semiofficial, that is what it amounts to. 

Mr. HENLEY. That is what I understand the friends of this propoition say. 

Mr. BLOUNT. As I understand, it is simply to "set up" the Nicaraguan officials rightly; and when that is done then the concession is 

to be had. There are parties that have rights in Nicaragua and they 

have to be bought up. I suppose good faith on the part of those down 

there who have worked up the scheme requires that the parties to the 

cheme here should work up their part; and I am given to understand 

it will result in a clean sum of 100,000 to each one of the American 

gentlemen who are interested in the business. And then, when that 

is all done, we must start out on the scheme of building this canal. 

When you get the right of way, you get the right of way for a purpose. 

You must construct the work. Well, what is it to cost? Weare told 

we must not ask anything about that; that is a confidential matter between the people in Nicaragua and the people who own the contract. 

And yet I can not help saying something about it, even although it 

should be considered an impertinence. 

These gentlemen, when before the Committee on Foreign Affairs, 

claimed this canal would cost $40,000,000 to build it. But in making 

that estimate they took very good care not to say a word about the 

width of the canal at its bottom. I have before me this statement, 

which is correct: 

The canal is to be twenty-eight feet in depth and one hundred and fifty feet in width on the water surface. The true breadth of a. canal is its breadth at the 

bottom. 

And this estimate to which I have alluded is wholly defective as re- gards any statement of what that breadth is. If large enough for the 

largest vessels of commerce, the probability is the estimate would have 

gone very far, two or three times, beyond the amount of this estimate. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. If the gentleman will allow me, I can give the 

figures of Major McFarland, who was appointed by the QQvernment to 

make an estimate. His estimate was that it would cost something 

about $140,000,000. 

Mr. BLOUNT. That illustrates the way in which gentlemen get new ideas as new necessities arise. When before the Committee on Fo:reign 

Affairs they said it would cost forty and odd millions, and now the estimate ha-s jumped up to $140,000,000 or 150,000,000. 

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Georgia has expired. 

Mr. BURNES. I yiel~ ten minutes to the gentleman from Alabama 

[Mr. HERBERT]. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I understood the gentleman was to yield 

tome. . Mr. BURNES. I yield tothegentlemanfromArkansas [:Mr. BRECKINRIDGE]. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. About two minutes are all I want. A few 

days ago I had the pleasure of meeting in this city a very eminent engineer, Captain Eads, who is also engaged in constructing a line of intercourse across that neck_of the continent. We )l.ave assurance of 

the Panama Canal being in rapid process of completion, and Captain 

Eads told me that he did not want any money from this Government 

or from any. other government to construct his ship-railway a-cross that 

part of Central America. He told me that he had or could get all the 

money he wanted from private partie , and the only thing he wanted 

from our Government was ·simply a general sentiment of good-will. 

Now, sir, we should not control this system or the half of this oceanic 

system if we controlled this project that is presented to us at this time. 

We should gain nothing exclusive by this negotiation. But our security does not lie in that. Our security, Mr. Speaker, consists in our 

enunciation of the Monroe doctrine and in the world's consciousness of 

our ability and determination to maintain that doctrine. That is our ecurity. 

[Here the hammer fell. J 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I desire just a moment more. 

l\Ir. BURNES. I yield to the geptleman the time he wants. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Does not England know our entiment on 

that subject? Does not Nicaragua know our sentiment on that subject? They both know it, 1t1r. Speaker, and we have no need of intrigue. We have no need of finesse; what we need is plain, frank, 

manly negotiation, if indeed there be need of anything at this time. 

This, sir, is all we can need or ought to assent to, wita a fair, liberal sentiment and policy toward the governments of the world, giving 

them distinctly to understand, not only the great nations but also the 

little State of Nicaragua, that we have got, if need be, thousands of millions of dollars for the maintenance of that national and continental 

position and policy, but not one cent for tribute. There, sir, is our 

security. It was enough when we were weak; it is enough since we 

are strong; and I trust this House will recognize the grand national 

principle and policy that underlies this question, and not simply the 

pittance of $250,000 that carries with it an avalanche of national disgrace. 

Mr. HERBERT. This question has been suddenly sprung upon us, 

and there are perhaps very few members who understand what it means 

and where this policy we are to enter on is to carry us. I confess that 

I have no such information on this subject as would authorize me to 

attempt to instruct the House. When we vote away the people's money we ought to know what we are doing, and in my opinion the country . 

is indebted to ·the gentleman from Missouri for the information he has 

given:. Let us consider for a moment what this first step we are invited to take may involve. The amendment on its face seems to be 

very innocent. It is an appropriation of 250,000 to carry on 'our 

foreign intercourse." We are told that this $250,000 is to be used, as 

I understand it, in securing the assent of Nicaragua that this concession now owned by some dozen gentlemen may be transferred to the 

United States. At present, according to its terms, it is not transferable. Unless Nicaragua alters or amends it, neither the QQvernment of 

the United States nor of Germany nor of Great Britain nor any other 

government can obtain possession of it. This $250,000, then, is simply 

to be used in order that that concession may be so modified that we 

may have the privilege to pay 1,200,000 for it to the enterprising gentlemen who own it. 

If that be the sitp.ation, if the Government of the United States seriously desires to enter upon the great work of constructing, owning, and 

controlling a. canal across the isthmus, then it seems to me the cheaper 

and better way would be simply to assert our right, under the Monroe 

doctrine, if such right we have, to say that no other government shall 

be allowed to purchase that concession, and then to wait until the 24th 

of next October shall come, and not pay $1,"'200, 000 to these twelve gentlemen who are asking it at our hands, bnt simply get the concession 

then from the State of Nicaragua. [Here the hammer fell. J How much 

time did I have? 

The SPEAKER ·pro tempore (Mr. SPRINGER). The gentleman had 

five minutes. The gentleman from Missouri [Mr. BURNES] desired to 

reserve a portion of his time for himself. 

Mr. HENLEY. The gentleman from Missouri intended to yield two 

or three minutes to me, and I will yield it to the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. HERBERT]. 

Mr. HERBERT. I thank the gentleman. I want simply to say 

that if we are to undertake the construction of a canal across that 

isthmus, then we ought to count the cost. There are I understand three 

routes, the one called the Tehuantepec route, the other the route by way 

of Lake NicaTaooua, and the other the Panama route. De Lesseps contends that the Panama route is the cheapest route. 

We saw recently a report from an engineer officer made to one of our 

Departments that 60,000,000 had already been expended upon the 

Panama Canal. According to my recollection this engineer states that 

only one-thirtieth portion of the work necessary to complete that canal 

has been accomplished by that $60,000,000. If that calculation be 

correct, then thirty times $60,000,000 would make$1, 800,000,000 which 

that Panama Canal is to cost. If this House is to embark this QQvernment upon the buildi.D.g of a canal in competition with that Panama 

Canal, and if it is to cost anything like $1,800,000,000, it is well that 

the people should know it and that we should vote understandingly. 

[Here the hammer fell.] . 

Mr. BURNES. I now yield to the gentleman from North CaroJina 

[Air. Cox] five minutes of my time. · 

1\Ir. COX, of North Carolina. I will resflrve that time till later. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I certainly will not weary the House at this unseasonable hour by anything but the very briefest remarks in relation 

to this proposition. ~fr. EA'.rON. If my friend will permit me, I de8ire to say to my 

friend from Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT] that I think he made a mistake in 

supposing that I desired to cross him at all. 

Mr. BLOUNT. Not at all. 

Mr. EATON. I simply desired to say this: that as a humble member of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of this House I never saw Mr. 

Phelps, and he never appeared before the committee to my knowledge, 

and I never heard of his appearing there in the world. 

Mr. BLOUNT. The gentleman did not understand me to say that 

he appeared there. 

Mr. EATON. The gentleman said that some newspapers said so. I 

therefore put my assertion against that newspaper report. 

Mr. BLOUNT. IfthegentlemanfromMinnesota [~Ir. WASHBURN] 

will allow me, I stated that I knew nothing about it. 

Mr. EATON. I understand that. 

Mr. BLOUNT. That it seemed to be a confidential matter, and that 
()128 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. .JuLY 5, 

I had read in the newspapers that Mr. Phelps was to be heard before 

·the Committee on Foreign Affairs and the Committee on Appropri- · 

.ations. Mr. EATON. He never was heard before the Committee on Foreign 

Affairs. 

· Ml·.WASHBURN. Sincethegentlemanfrom1\Iissouri[.Mr.BURNE ], 

my distinguished colleague on the Committee on Appropriations, has 

seen fit to refer to what took place in what I supposed was a confidential conference, I will say this: there was a conference which I supposed was confidential, for reasons that are obvious to any one. 

In this conference it was made apparent that conditions were likely 

to arise in the next six months which would make it very important 

to h ave the fund provided for in this amendment, by which very desirable and advantageous negotiations could be carried on; and therepI·esentations made in the presence of the Committee on Foreign Affairs 

and the Committee on Appropriations were so strong that at the time 

there seemed to be no dissenting voice as to the propriety of having 

this appropriation made. • So far as regards the statement which has been made and repeated 

here, that this appropriation is to be expended to private parties, I 

will say that such an impression is entirely erroneous. On the contTary, it was stated and reiterated that under no circumstances was one 

single dollar of this appropriation to be paid to any individual or corporation or association; that this syndicate or company or whatever 

you may call it was not in any case to reap any benefit from this appropriation. This statement was made in answer to interrogatories, and 

it was reiterated in the most forcible terms. 

Mr. BURNES. Will my colleague on the committee allow me at 

this point to call his attention to the fact that he was not present, I 

believe, at the first interview upon the subject. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I was present at the interview to which I refer, 

which I suppose was a confidential interview. 

Mr. BURNES. That was the interview of the two committees? 

Mr. WASHBURN. And the only interview of which I have any 

knowledge. 

Mr. BURr~·rES. I would like the gentleman to answer me a question 

(I trust he will paTdon the interruption), because he has made a statement that has not to me quite the look that I desire. He says that 

this meeting was a confidential meeting, not to be mentioned. I ask 

him to state now whether it was not distinctly agreed that if the matter 

had to come before the House we should take the liberty of dealing 

with this question rree from all restraint? 

Mr. WASHBURN. I never heard any such agreement or any such 

suggestion. Other gentlemen can speak for themselves. 

l\1r. BURNES. Then I ask wa the gentleman present at the first 

interview upon this questiou? 1\Ir. WASHBURN. I was present at one interview only; and that 

was a conference made up of the Committee on Foreign Affairs and the 

Committee on Appropriations. 

Mr. BURNES. Then I will not pursue the gentleman with my inquiries any further. 

:Mr. WASHBURN. And the reason this conference was confidential 

was not that the Department or the Government has any secrets from 

the American people, but because in conducting negotiations of this 

kind it will not do and it is not proper to herald everything to the 

world, as gentlemen here propose to do. 

Several MEMBERS. Why not? 

Mr. WELLER. ''Let your light shine.' ' 

Mr. WASHBURN. I presume the Department has no secretl:! fTom 

the American people and wishes to ha.'e none, but it desires to act in 

the best interests of the country; and it is very trange and very pitiable if we have an administration which we can not trust with negotiations of this character to so limited an extent. 

So. far as concerns these vast appropriation which are talked of not 

, a dollar can be appropriated except by act of Congress. When gentlemen talk about the $1,200,000 to be paid to buy up this syndicate, 

when they talk about the millions and millions of dollars that it would 

require to construct this canal, they must bear in mind that not one oollar can be paid to anybody until it has fir t been appropriated by 

Congress. 

1\lr. SPRINGER. Suppose we get this concession; suppose everything is honest and fair, and no undue influence is used; what are we 

going to do with it when we get it? 

Mr. WASHBURN. We will settle when we get it what it is best 

to do. Ro fa.r as I am concerned, I want to see ocean and ocean connected by a canal. 

1\fr. SPRINGER. With GoYernment money ? 

Mr. WASHBURN. Whenever tills is done, I want that canal under 

the control of this Government and no other. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Our Government to pay for it? . Mr. WASHBURN. That is for Congress to decide when the time 

shall come. Now, if by negotiations looking to the future ther~ are any points 

to be saved, it seems to me it is proper to make an appropriation of this 

kind to take such steps as may be necessary to save an.y important 

points. The Government is not committed to anything. It simply 

places itself in a position to hold the vantage ground, if you pleasenothing more. This is all that is asked in this appropriation. 

I will not take further time, but will yield ten minutes to my friend 

from New York [Mr. PoTTER]. 

Mr. POTTER. Mr. Speaker, Iknownothingaboutconfidentialcommunications or interviews or meetings of committees of .conference 

alluded to. I know none of the parties who are supposed to be connected with this concession. I never knew until it was stated by the 

distinguished gentleman from 1\fissouri that General Grant or that he 

who was my intinlate friend, Hon. E. D. Morgan, had anything to do 

with it. I can only say if 1\lr. Morgan did have anything to do with 

it it was not with any unpatriotic purpose or any purpose unworthy 

of an American citizen of the highest order. 

I did, some years ago, at the request of the Senator from .California, 

investigate with him as well as I could by such surveys as he furnished 

the several routes for building canals to connect the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. The r esult of that investigation was that in my judgment the Nicaragua route was by far the most feasible, far the most 

practicable for the construction of the canal. 

It was in a perfectly healthy country with a river accomplishing a part of the distance that needs only deepening and widening to connect 

it with Lake Nicaragua, which, if I recollect aright, is about ninety 

miles in length, and on the average five or six in width, and of sufficient depth to float ships of considerable draught. 

1\lr. EATON. The largest draught. 

Mr. POTTER. I am speaking simply of the results of the investigation made p ersona,lly as an American without a particle of pecuniary 

interest, and with the sole purpose of ascertaining whether such a canal 

could be built to serve the beneficial purpose for which it is designed. 

I came to the conclusion as a somewhat practical man that the canal 

was perfectly practicable, and that it could be built for a sum inside of 

lOO,OOO,OOU and at the outside I believe for half that sum; and that it 

would be of immense and ever-increasing benefit to the commerce, the 

progress, and de\elopment of this continent, with the destiny of which, 

I agree as much as any other member ou this floor, the American people are charged. · 

Now, sir, without going into the detail of this thing, for I know nothing about these negotiations, I understand this proposition to be simply 

to put at the dispo.<>al of the treaty-making power of this Government, 

at the disposal of that poweT upon which the Constitution has devolved 

the power of making treaties and to negotiate such as it shall find it 

clearly and undoubtedly the interest of this country to make. I do 

not understand that acquiring this passage across the Isthmus of Nicaragua wquld be any yielding of the 1\Ionroe doctrine. I do not understand we are required to go to war with England or France for the purpose of enunciating and maintaining the Monroe doctrine in regard to a canal, which I believe, and which I think most practical men believe, 

will turn out in the end to be a magnificent failure. I would not and 

do not believe the executi\e department of the Government would 

undertake to purchase this concession or to acquire it in any way until 

they shall ascertain with certainty not only that they will get a good 

title, but that it will be in every way pr.;tcticable, and that it can be 

constructed within such cost as will be for the best interest of this 

countl'y. 

I am a Democrat, and I think as strict as any man on the doctrine 

of State rights and proper limitations of the powers of the National 

Government, and I find no difficulty in any way or anything in the 

Constitution to prevent this Government from constructing if need be 

a highway for its comme-mce, its armies, its fleets, for our merchant 

fleets, to enable it to take such a position as we ought to take based upon 

the trade and commerce ofthe Pacific and .of South America. · 

I find no difficulty in the Constitution in accomplishing that object. 

We have a right to construct military highways. We have a right to 

provide for commerce. It will not be denied that thi3 purpose is strictly 

and entirely national; and if it accomplishes the secmity and inures 

to the benefit of the vast interests of the commerce of this country upon 

this great continent which is ours, then it becomes a public policy to 

develop and care for it. 

Now, sir, I am not afraid, in view of these vast possibilitie , to trust 

to the Executive of this nation and to the treaty-making power of this 

Government the paltry sum of $250,000 upon his responsibility and 

upon the responsibility ofhis advisers the Senate. I am not afraid to 

trust hinl to make these negotiations. I think it will be in very safe 

hands. He will not go beyond it. Charged with the interests of the 

American people, he dare not go beyond that sum. I believe, sir, that 

we ought to place this amount under his responsibility, subject to the 

treaty-making power of this Government; and I therefore voted for it 

and I shall vote for it again. 

:1\ir. HENLEY. Let me inten-upt the gentleman for a moment, as I 

would like an explanation of what he means when he speaks of giving 

this to ''the treaty-making power.' I understand this fund is to be 

taken into a sort of secret-service arrangement. The Senate has nothing to do with it. . · . Mr. POTTER. I understand the Senate helps to make appropriations in the first place. It is a part of the treaty-making power. No 

treaty will be accomplished for this or any other purpose if the Sen.ate 
--

1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6129 

does not agree to it; and I understand further that this has been considered by the Senate, considered at length, and that they are entirely 

or quite unanimous in their opinion that the interests of the country 

require this appropriation to be made. · 

.1\Ir. BURNES. It would be unjust, sir, to the gallant Senators from 

my State to sit here and allow that statement, unparliamentaryin the 

fir t place, to pass uncontradicted; and it is unjust to them in the second place. It was not unanimous, sir, I assure you. 

Mr. WASHBURN. Very nearly. 

Mr. PO'ITER. I do not know how that is, but such was my information. 

Mr. BURNES. 

1\Ir. POTTER. 

Mr. HENLEY. 

The SPEAKER. 

a:pired. 

It wa not unanimous by any means. 

It was YeiY nearly so as I am informed. 

But the Senate has nothing to do with it. 

The time of the gentleman from New York has 

Mr. TUCKER. Will the gentleman from Minnesota allow me to 

.ask a question ? 

Mr. WASHBURN. I will yield to the gentleman for that purpose. 

1\Ir. TUCKER. I would like to ask the gentleman from Minnesota 

if there has been any communication fro.m the executive department 

to either brnnch of Congress as to the purpose for which it desires this 

.appropriation of 250, OUO? 

1\Ir. WASHBURN. I think there has been no written communication so fur as I know. 

1\Ir. BURNES. Not a word. 

1\Ir. TUCKER. Are we then to love darkness rather than light? 

.(Laughter. J 

Ur. IcCOID. You did when you bought Louisiana; you would 

not have gob it in any other way. 

~Ir. CANNON. Under section 291 of the Revised Statutes this appropriation is to be made if at all. A statute was passed by the fathers 

in 1793 and amended in 1810, under which many confidential appropriations have been made by the generation before the last, by the last 

.generation, and by this generation. 

l\1r. WASHBURN. I now yield fifteen minutes to the gentleman 

from Louisiana [Mr. HUNT]. 

l\1r. HUNT. Mr. Speaker, I am reminded by the course of this detbate ofwhattook place when 1\Ir. Adams was a member of Congress, and 

.a young gentleman (and I presume he was anew member like myself) 

called during the discussion for the vouchers of the secret-service fund. 

Thereupon Mr. Adams said:. "The gentleman can call and call and call 

-until he is gray. 71 

It is difficult for me to unden,""'tand how diplomatic matters that are 

important in their character, and particularly in those negotiations that 

.are preliminary, can be made the subject of public exploration and dis-

-cussion. But if the compL."'>int of the learned gentleman from Missouri 

[Mr. BURNES] is addressed to this condition of things, and that of the 

-distinguished gentleman from Virginia [1\Ir. TUCKER] and that of the 

-distinguished gentleman from Georgia [.1\ir. BLOUNT] as well, I have 

only to say to them that they complain of that secrecy which is the 

inevitable and natural and necessaq condition precedent to such a state 

.Qf affairs as is under consideration. 

But, 1\Ir. Speaker, the situation is so grave, that I consider the statement that has fallen from the gentleman from Missouri deserving to be 

-corrected. He has risen heN and grren the House to untlerstand that 

·Congress should enter upon the future of ihe country ill reference to its 

.South American relations under the protection of what he calls the 

' Monroe doctrine;" and this, he went on to tell us, is the doctrine 

by which we are at liberty to do what will best consult our national 

happiness. 

The gentleman had better go to the books. I commend him to the 

:perusal of 1\Ir. Calhoun. I commend him to the exercise of that cau-

-tion with which he habitually speaks, and which he has lost sight of on 

1the present occasion. 

1\lr. BUR~ES rose. 

1\Ir. HUNT. I do not yield. 

The Monroe doctrin~ was this: It was a declaration by PresidentMonIJ"Oe that this continent was not to be considered any longer in a condition jerre naturre; that it was to be considered as under the dominion of 

-existing public law. This was one branch of the Monroe doctrine; that 

the American continent was not to be considered as subject to colonization. 

The second branch of the Monroe doctrine-! recollect it well, and 

there is but one other remaining point-was that the United States 

would not see witli indifference the free republics which had wrested 

t heir liberty from the dominion of Spain reduced by the absolutists of 

Europe to slavery again. 

Mr. BuR ~Es rose. 

Mr. HUNT. I do not yield. When Mr. Calhoun at a later period 

.of his life was called upon to speak upo_n this Rubject, he in the lifetime of 1\Ir. Adams declar~ the doctrine with that accuracy for which 

he was remarkable, in order that it might recei>e correction and no 

-correction was given, and the doctrine as declared by these two great 

men is known by publicists and can be found in the horn-books. 

XV--384 

No, sir. The United States never declared any such do<:trineasthis: 

that in order to promote their national happiness they could act as they 

pleased with the states of the civilized world or with the governments 

of South American countries. That would be preposterous; that would 

be impo ible doctrine; that. would be against the language of proud 

equality and of national freedom which go>erns the relations between 

states. 

Now, sir, having spoken on the misty difficulty in which the gentleman who opened this d,ebate found himself, and having shown what 

the Monroe doctrine was, it remains for me to say th.1t it is well believed 

that the.Clayton-Bulwertreaty has been violated. It has been violated 

in the departure of Great Britain from her obligations of neutrality 

and in the notorious settlement by her on the continent where shehad 

obligated herself not to settle. 

The gentleman from Mjssouri takes the ground that where one party 

to a treaty has violated the treaty it i manly and right for the other 

party to carry on diplomatic colloquy with regard to it. I say it is 

not. I say that is not law; I say that is not sene; I say that is not 

the doctrine of contracts; for where a contract between equals is violated by one party, that violation releases the other party to the contract 

from the obligations entered into. I say, if our Government has just 

ground to know that Great Britain has broken faith we are free from 

the obligations of the contract. 

But, sir, one step further. The gentleman says if it comes to the 

worst under the Monroe doctrine we might go to war, and I suppose 

to possess ourselves of this Nicaragua canal That has been the loose, 

uninformed, unintelligent opinion of the effect of the Monroe doctrine, 

which, however, does injustice to its authors, and is not in accordance 

with correct histoq; neither is war, on vague, general, declamahny 

views, the object and policy of civilized, Christian states. 

What, then, are we brought to1Mr. Speaker? We are brought to determine a proposition to give the Department of State $250,000 with 

which to enter upon diplomatic relations. I have no confidential relations with the Department of State. I have no poli~cal ties which 

bind me to the President. I do not hesitate to say, however, Mr . 

Speaker, that whenever, in my judgment, it is patriotic to trust him 

I will do so. [Applause on the Republican side.] If the President of 

the United States has violated his oath of office, if the Secretary of 

State is unworthy of trust, there are the laws of the country to which 

we will hold the President and hold the Secretary. But there is one 

comforting reflection which I have in speaking my mind freely on this 

subject. It is this: That there has never been a President of the United 

States guilty of conduct which can truthfully be described as criminal 

or infamous. 

Now, .Mr. Speaker, is it a great thing to place at the President's disposal $250,000? The gentleman from Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT] sees in 

the proposition chimeras dire; he sees more devils than vast hell can 

hold. In what? In the prospect to give the Chief Magistrate of the 

United States $250,000. Why, sir, President Lincoln had, I think, as 

a secret-service fund as much as eight millions at his disposal. But 

the gentleman from Georgia sees in the pending proposition a disposition to do what? To contract a debt of $120,000,000 for constructing 

this Nicaragua canal. Now, can one dollar be appropriated without the 

leave of this House? Can a single dollar be drawn from the Treasury 

without that leave? And has it come to this, that we can hold no 

governmental relations unless the breath that goes out in our utterances is tainted with suspicions of the highest officers of the Go>ernment? I protest aga.in.-.t the idea of the l\Ionroe doctrine to which I 

have referred. When the absolutists of Europe had suppressed the 

spirit of revolution which broke out in the southern portion of the 

continent, Spain turned her eyes to her provinces which had succeeded 

in wresting their liberty; ann the propositions of which I spoke a few 

minutes ago were put forth with· careful accuracy; they were no filibm~tering pronunciamentos; they were no general bluster, no mere 

loose talk about national happiness. lli. Monroe never talked that 

way; 1\Ir. Calhoun never talked or thought that way. 1\Ir. Adams, 

the Secretary of State, was incapable of it. 

So it is, ~fr. Speaker, that we find ourselves on familiar ground, I 

hope on American ground. I hope that we have a Chief Magistrate 

animated by an American spirit. I do not like this misty talk, these 

quasi-confidential reports, which according to one gentleman it seems 

are not confidential, and according to another gentleman are confidential. That is not, I submit, the way to speak of the public business; 

that is not right. This is not a place to appeal to prejudice. These ~e 

transactions between great public functionaries upon matters of high 

international moment. 

I am.not prepared to say whether or not this canal is going to be a. great success. B11t this I will say, that by the route around Cape Horn 

the ad>antages of distance and time are exclusively with European nation . Sailing from European ports ships go with directness past the 

eastern point of South America to the Cape of Good Hope. On the contrary, Ye els sailing from our American ports are obliged to sail far to 

the ea tward, and then turn to the southward and westward to tlle 

point where their course intersect tho e of European ships, thus losing 

greatlyin the matter of distance. The constructionofthis waterronte 

. 
6130 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5 . 

will reverse the conditions I have referred to. From gulf ports like 

New Orleans, for instance, the advantages would be enormously increa ed. 

If, then, Mr. Speaker, I am right, the Monroe doctrine interferes with no rightful power of development in the way of international intercourse on the part of foreign nations with the South American governments; 

it interferes with no capacity on their part for treaty tipulation ; it 

derogates from no right of sovereignty in any foreign nation in carrying on international relations with these South Americ:m republics; it 

interferes with no right on the part of the United.States to acquire by 

purchase that which we may deem valuable as a great water way. 

Who does not know that in the progress of negotiations, in the establi hment of our frontier lines, in our treaties with Great Britain 

from the time of the Revolution and until the recent treaty of Washington, and through all the intricate mazes of the treaties with regard 

to the fisheries, Great Britain has always been arrogant, grasping, and 

the steady enemy of the peace, progress, and power of this country? 

Who does not know that she has interposed herself in the pathway of 

traffic between this country and the Pacific. coast, and clutched that 

traffic which has been so eloquently spoken of here by my honorable 

colleague [.l\1r. ELLIS] and deprived the United States of it? 

For my part, Ur. Speaker, nothing that an American Representative can do to support his country, to support its administration if need be 

for the national honor, to support his Government in directing wisely 

and ·trongly its foreign relations with Great Britain or any other power, 

will I leave undone, conscious a I am that I stand erect, untouched by 

any affiliations the propriety of which can be questioned, and look olely 

to the development of the pea.ce, prosperity, happiness, and glo1·y of the 

Republic. [Applause.] 

Mr. WASHBURN. I nowyield ten minutes to the gentleman from 

Connecticut [Mr. EATON]. 

Mr.· EATON. Mr. Speaker, I do not desire to enter into this discussion at all, and for this reason: Whatever I may know in regard to 

the intentions of the Government of the United States or its officers has 

been obtained under such circumstances as to be strictly confidential. 

I can not talk about it; I will not talk about it. My friend from California [Mr. HENLEY] laughs. I have a right, I apprehend, to my own 

convictions of what is my duty. 

With other members of the Committee on Foreign Affairs I have been 

in consultation with the State Department for four months, three 

months before thetwocommitteesmetin "joint convention," if I may use that phrase; and I want to say-for this I have a right to saythat. never, in any consultation ith the Secretary of State, at any 

time during those four months, has he uttered one word which would 

imply that one dollar of the money which this Congress is asked to appropriate is to be used for private purposes-not one dollar. Never in 

my presence has the Secretary of State used any language that could 

be tortured into such an intention. That is as far as 1 choose to go in 

this matter. 

One word on another point: I thank my friend from Louisiana [:1\Ir. 

HUNT] for his correct statement of the Monroe doctrine. We have 

outgrown the old Monroe doctrine. We are every day, and we have 

been for years, going further than the old Monroe doctrine went. 

Now, one word with regard to this treaty which has been spoken of, 

the Clayton-Bulwer treaty. I undertake to say that there is not in 

this country a well-informed international lawyer, not one, who will 

not say that this treaty is to-day simply null and void. It requires 

· no abrogation. Great Britain herself bas violated every principle of 

the Clayton-Bulwer treaty. I do not regard it in the light oflaw at all. 

I do not know any well-informed man who has examined the subject 

who does so re~rd it. In that treaty Great Britain pledged herself 

and we pledged this country that no settlement should be made any- where within the territory designated. To Great Britain was conceded merely the right to cut Iogwood, &c., at some points. She has 

overstepped the provisions of her own treaty. She has made a large 

settlement in violation of its terms. Therefore, I say the treaty i null 

and void. 

Mr. BURNES. I desire to a k my friend from Connecticutwhetber 

it is not a fact that no notice of any intention to abrogate this treaty 

bas ever been given by our Government to England? 

Mr. EATON. In reply to that I will say--

Mr. BURNES. Wait a moment. 

Mr. EATON. That is one question. Let me an wer that before 

you put another. No notice has been given, and none is required. Mr. BURNEtt Wait one moment. You are answering two questions-Yankee-like. [Laughter.] 

Mr. EATON. I suppo e I guessed what you would say next. 

Mr. BURNES. Now, not as a constitutional lawyer, but as an ordinary Missouri lawyer, I ask you this question: If you enter into a contract with your colleague [:Mr. SEYMOUR] that you will do a certain 

thing in a certain way, and he is to do a certain thing in a certain way, 

and you find he has not done exactly what you think he ought to have 

done under the contract, would you give him notice that you were going to regard the contract as annulled, or would you violate your 

&ide of the contract without any sort of notice? What would be your 

view of the duty of a party in such a case in the private relations of 

life, or the international duty as between great sovereignties who may 

be involved in international controversies? 

Mr. EATON. I answered that question substantially at the begining of my remarks w ben I said that no notice had been given of abroga-· tion or desire to abrogate the treaty, and I said no notice wa necessary 

because the other great contracting party ha rendered· the treaty null 

and >oid. 

Ur. BURNES. Great Britain denies that, you know. 

Mr. EATON. I do not know about that; I ha\e not the time now to go into the correspondence between our State Department and 

Great Britain. 

Mr. BURNES. It has been a ubject of correspondence. 

Mr. EATON. One word further. A contract between private indi-

>iduals the interpretation of which may be determined by the upreme 

court of the District of Columbia, or the supreme court of the State oi 

Connecticut, or the supreme court of Missouri, i one thing; a contract 

between two great powers is quite another thing. I do not care to gointo an argumen to show the difference between a contra.ct to which 

pri>ate individuals are parties and a treaty between overeign powers. 

When one of the parties to such a treaty has rendered the treaty null 

and void, it is null and void as to both. 

There is no court to go before except that great court of last resort_ 

Nobody can try it-nobody except an arniy. 

l\Ir. BAYNE. Permit me to ask a que~tion. 

, Ir. EATON. I will. 

Ir. BAYNE. uppo e after the treaty had been nullified by Great. 

Britain the United States had availed itself from time to time of thebenefits of that treaty, let me ask the gentleman whether in the light 

of that circumstance he would regard the treaty as void? 

Mr. EATO-'-J· I beg my friend's pardon; that is hardly a properquestion. [Laughter.] Tlie reason is the great point at issue b tween 

these two overeign powers was the occupation or non-occupation oi 

that territory. " 

Mr. BURNES. What territory? Do you allude to British Honduras?· ~Ir. EATON. All the territory in the vicinity of Briti h Honduras or Lake Nicaragua; all that territory. 

Mr. BURNES. Does the gentleman claim that England holds one inch of territory in Honduras or on the South American continent which. 

it did not hold when the Clayton-Bulwer treaty was made? 

l\Ir. EATON. Yes. 

Mr. BURNES. I beg the gentleman's pardon. 

Mr. EATON. Yes. 

Mr. BURNES. On the contrary, our claim or that of our Government is that England has established what seems to be a government 

over British Honduras, and not that she has extended her territory. 

I defy the p;entleman to show she has extended it one inch. 

Mr. EATON. It is the first time in the history of England that I 

remember she has not extended her territory when she had the opportunity. [Laughter. J 

Mr. BURNES. She has not. 

Mr. EATON. But I am not talking about that. My belief is my 

friend is mistaken; but that is not the point. The point is, here wa a treaty in regard to the manner in which certain countries or parts oi 

territory, no matter who the owner was, hould be occupied. Neither 

the United States nor Great Britain was at liberty to establish any 

great basis on any of that territory, whether British territory or Ameri- can territory, whether belonging to Honduras, Nicamgua, or any otherstate. That was the essence, the gravamen of the treaty. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman's time has expired. 

Mr. WASHBURN. I will yield more time to the gentleman from 

Connecticut. 

Mr. EATON. I do not wish to say a word more. If this i not a . proper time to do this thing, why gentlemen will refuse to do it. But 

I will undertake to say this: After examination of months into this great 

question, for it is a great question in my judgment, the United State . will be false to herself, false to her honor, ful e to her glory, and fal e to that great future which we think is looming up for her, unle shedoes take some step to procure the right of way a$.!foss that Lake Nica-- ragua to build a canal there. 

Mr. BELFORD. Let me ask the gentleman a question. 

Mr. EATON. Certainly. 

Mr. BELFORD. Can not you do that better by a railroad than by a canal? 

~Ir. EATON. I know gentlemen think a railroad can take up an, 

8,000-ton ship and carry it with perfect ease. 

Mr. BELFORD. Allow me another que tion. Does not the value· 

of commerce practically consist in expedition of transportation? 

Mr. EATON. Beyond all question; and therefore I say to my good 

and esteemed friend from California [l'llr. HENLEY] that the building · 

of this canal (it will certainly be built some time) will shorten the dis--

tance between New York and California, as compared with the Panama 

Canal, 2, 600 miles. Mr. BELFORD. Let me ask the gentleman another question. We 

have a railroad from the city of Denver to the old City of Mexico. 

Mr. EATON. I am glad there is a road with two such good ends. 

as Denver and Mexico. 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL· RECORD-HOUSE. 6131 

Mr. BELFORD. We are going to build thatroad across the Isthmus 

of Panama and through the Argentine Republic and down into Brazil. 

Mr. EATON. I hope so. Ur. BELFORD. If we do that, can not we tran port all the commerce of those territories in one-third of the time it could be done by 

vessels? 

1\Ir. EATON. I cannotgointo computationaboutthatruatternow. 

Mr. BELFORD. I know you can not. 

l\Ir. BLOUNT. Since my friend from Connecticut has stated that he 

felt restrained to some extent in reference to making astatementabout 

this matter by reason of the propriety of preserving ecrecy, and I say 

it with great re pect, I would like to ask if he regards it a proper que -

tion whether be believes that the purpo e of thi -whole matter is not 

that the Government shall eventually build this canal across the 

isthmus? 

1\Ir. EATON. ~1r. Speaker, I will answer that question partly. 

can not answer fully. I am not the Government; perhaps it it my misfortune that I am not. But this I would say, the object of the Government is to obtain the right to build; that is the object. I hope that the 

time will come when it will be built by this Government, owned by 

this Government; and Ihad as lea>emakethatpurchaseandhavesuch 

right to do it certain as our esteemed great Democratic leader had to 

buy Louisiana from a foreign government. . . 1\Ir. SPRINGER. But when be bought 1t 1t was ours. 

Mr. EATON. And so will this canal be. 

Mr. HENLEY. I hope the gentleman from Connecticut will be allowed time to answer a que tion that I would like to ask him. 

It is proposed, although this matter is surrounded with so much mys-

•terythatitisdifficultto say whatisproposedand what is assumed to be 

the case, to make an appropriation of 250,000 for the purpose of ini tiating step to acquire the right to the conce sion which had been previously granted to these twelve men. 

1\Ir. EATON. No. 

M:r. HENLEY. I so understood it. 

Mr. EATON. Perhaps I ought not to say no. I do not want to say 

it. If you asked me if I believed that was the intention I should say 

no, I do not believe it. 

Mr. HENLEY. I understand that to be the case, and it is disclo ed 

by the friends of the measure here. Now, what specific data has the 

House, what information has the gentleman or any gentleman upon 

this floor which is authentic and upon which we could rely as to the 

pre ent value of this concession? Information has reached me that 

Nicaragua will be only too glad to grant free to any one, not for 250, · 

000 or for$1,000,000, but will give without charge to any one this same right of way and concession who will come with capital and give earnest of his intention to build the canal. Therefore, as I understand, we 

are offering a great deal of money for absolutely nothing. 

ME SAGE FROM THE ENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Ur. McCooK, its Secretary, announced 

that the Senate bad agreed to the amendments of the House of Representatives to the amendments of the Senate numbered 253, 254, 255, and 

257 to the sundry civil appropriation bill, and further insisted upon its 

amendment numbered 267, disagreed to by the House of Representati ves on said bill. 

S'CNDRY CIVIL APPROPRIATION BILL. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will state that by reason of a clerical error in one of the amendments proposed by the gentleman from Kansas one of the amendments of the Senate was omitted. If there be no 

objection the House will now dispo e of it. 

Mr. RYAN. I move that the House recede from its disagreement 

to the amendment of the Senate numbered 267, and ~gree to the same. 

Mr. GIBSON. What is that amendment? 

Mr. RY A.N. It is one of the ections of the Springer amendment1 

which was omitted by an error. Standing alone it has no connection 

with the· bill. 

The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the motion of the 

gentleman from Kansas. 

The motion was agreed to. 

CONSULAR AND DIPLO:MATIC APPROPRIATION BILL. 

The House resumed the consideration of the conference report on the 

consular and diplomatic appropriation bill. . 

Mr. HENLEY. I hope the distinguished gentleman from Connecticut will not imagine that I meant any disrespect in the question which 

I asked him a short time ago. 

Mr. EATON. By no means. I could not imagine such a thing of 

the gentleman. 

Mr. HENLEY. Of course the gentleman knows that nothing of the 

kind was intended. 

Mr. EATON. Certainly. Now a word fmtber. I want to say in 

the first place that my friend from California in his question assumes 

a thing that I know nothing about, something that bas not come to 

my knowledge. 

Mr. HENLEY. It has been stated here on the floor. 

Mr. EATON. I do not know it. Now, another thing: Has my 

• 

friend read the clau e of the amendment itself? I will answer that 

long question of his by asking him to read this cl:m e: 

Two hundred and fifty thousand dollar , or so much thereof as may be neces- sary. 

Then, if there is no need for any of it, none of it i · necessary, and it 

will not be used. I do not believe the Department of State will use it. 

For these concessionnaires will not get one dollar of tbi money if Nicaragua desires to give instead of ell the right of way. Not a dollar will 

be used. 

Mr. HOL~IAN. Will the gentleman from Connecticut allow me a 

question upon this alleged concession? 

Mr. EATON. Let it be very short. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I find that article of this conce sion reads as follows: 

This conce ion is transferable to the construction company only. 

Another c.:>rporation, also organized in Colorado, as the gentleman 

will remember, which is to be organized by the provisional society, the 

ociety to which this concession was made: 

And in no case can it be transferred to n. foreign government or power; nor can the company cede to any foreign government any of the lands granted in 

this conce ion; but it may transfer them to private parties with the same re- striction. · 

Now, is not the gentleman from Connecticut aware of the fact, or is 

be aware of the fact that up to this hour what bas transpired on the 

part of the Go>ernment through its State Department in connection 

with this subject has been with the gentlemen who are members of this 

Interoceanic Canal Company and not at all with Nicaragua? Have not 

:ill the steps that have been taken up to thi time been taken. with 

and in relation to this canal company and their executive committee? 

The SPEAKER. The additional three minutes allowed to the gentleman from Connecticut ha>e expired. 

Ir. EA.TON. I can answer the gentleman in one moment. I do 

not know any such thing. On the contrary I know differently. 

Mr. HOLMA....'f. I think the gentleman is laboring under >~ry great 

misapprehension as to the fact. 

Mr. W A HBURN. I yield five minutes to the gentleman from 

Illinois [Mr. CAN~ON). 

Mr. CANNO~. I did not desire to say one word about this amendment, and would not have done so were it not that I was stricken with 

absolute surprise by the remarks of the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. 

BUR~"E ] who opened this discussion. I frankly say I do not know 

much about the merits of the propo ed route for a canal across the 

isthmus to which he addressed himself. I am a member of the Committee on Appropriations; and on one occasion to which that gentleman 

and others have referred I did meet with certain gentlemen who composed the Committee on Foreign Affairs and certain matters were there 

discussed, and I was very much surprised hy the remarks of the gentleman from M:issouri, because if that was the only interview, either h~ 

or I totally misunderstood the substance of it; and I thought I paid 

very close attention to what took place at that interview. 

So far as I know or believe from what information I have, I do nOl• 

understand that one dollar of this money, in the event it is voted under 

section 291 of'tbe Revised Statutes, as a confidential fund, to the President, is to go to auy corporation or to any person, in any way, shape, 

or form, for the purchase of a concession. Now, then, M:r. Speaker, I 

do want to say thi in reply to the suggestion that has been made by more than one gentleman. 

Mr. GIBSON. Will the gentleman from illinois yield to me for a 

question? 

Mr. CA....'f"NO~. I can not yield; I have only five minutes. 

Why, gentlemen, is it possible that the United States is to play a 

horn and heat a drum whenever it desires to negotiate a treaty or perform any other governmental function in order to give everybody ·notice of our intentions? 

Mr. BLO~T. Will the gentleman allow me-- fr. CANNON. I have said I can not yield when I have only five 

minutes and require that time to complete what I have to say; otherwise I would take pleasure in yielding to the gentleman. 

I say again I have not exhausted the merits of this question, nor do 

I apprehend, with my limited knowledge, that I could exhaust it in one month, or perbap iu two or three months. But I do say this: We 

have an executive branch of the Government. The President i amenable to public opinion and is soon to go out of offiee. I have always 

understood him to be a reputable citizen, and I know he bas the confidence of the whole country to a wonderful degree. And under the 

statute of 1793 authorizing this confidential fund t:o be expended by the 

President in our foreign intercourse, I belie•e appropriations have been 

made to every administration that ba been in power since the formation of the Government to the present time. In view of this law and 

pm'ttice, having the interests of the country at heart, I am not ready to 

stand here and withhold the sum of $250,000 that that Executive would 

like to have possession of to use within his discretion, in whole or part, 

in the foreign intercourse of this Government, he all the time being re- spon ible to Congress, responsible to public opinion, responsible to the 

whole people. 

(Here the hammer fell.] 
6132 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Mr. W ASHBUR.L -. I reser>e the balance of my time. 

l\fr. TOWXSHEXD ro e. 

Mr. COX, of North Carolina. I had understood I had fixe minutes 

remaining. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Korth Carolina is entitled to · the floor for five minutes. 

:Mr. TOWNSHEXD. If the gentleman from Korth Carolin:t desires 

to proceed now, I will take the floor after he has poken. 

Mr. COX, of North Carolina. Mr. peaker, in con ide ring the proposition now before the House, it is not propm· to impugn the motives 

of any gentlemen connected with this transaction, for in the recommendations submitted we must see that their conduct has been honorable and patriotic. . 

The discussion has taken a very broad and so mew hat eccentric range. 

My cool and unimpassioned friend from Louisiana, [Mr. HuxT] has entertained us with a dissertation on · the Uonroe doctrine, the ClaytonBulwer treaty, the law of contracts, &c.; my friend from New York 

[Mr. PoTTER] has dL~ussed the desirability and practicability of the 

Nicaragua Canal; while other gentlemen have been impatient at the 

seeming mystery with which the mea ure is surrounded. Now, what 

is the real matter upon which we are called to act? It is simply this, 

that we should place $250,000 as a ecret fund at the service of the 

President, to be used in his discretion in negotiating some foreign treaty. 

We are told that the specific purpo for which this fund is to be 

used can not be disclosed without imperiling the success of the contemplated negotiation, but our Democratic training causes us to be dissatisfied with thi partial granting of confidence, and the imagination 

is excited with specters of deep de...<Ugn, and produces a general assault 

on the whole line of those who advocate the measure. I was present 

at the conference of the two committees when the purpose of this appropriation was fully presented and considered, and the reasons for 

withholding the information, which have been criticisocl, were fully explained. My friend from Minnesota [Mr. W .A.SHBUR:S] is rather comprehensive in ·his statement-when he says that all pre ent seemed to 

favor this measure. He will doubtless recall the fact that there was 

no vote taken which would indicate the views of members before the 

committees separated. 

A secret-service fund ha always been employed by this Government, 

as it is by every other, but I venture to say in our whole history it h:is 

never exceeded at any one time $30,000, and u ually much less. The 

weaker the Government and the more perilous its po ition the greater 

is the necessity for the employment of such a fund. The present proposition to appropriate $250,000 for this service when the Go>ernment 

is at perfect peace with all the world and the American name feared 

and respected abroad, is not calcu'lated to impre.._"S u with that confidence which should command our support. The discussion has disclosed the fact that notwithstanding the information posses ed by the 

Committees on Foreign .Affairs and Appropriations, instead of their 

members being united in support of this measure, they entertain very 

different and widely diYerging views in regard to the necessity and 

propriety of the appropriation. Therefore they do not present such a 

union of council a is calculated to impress this body with the nec~ty 

for this departure from our American policy of frankness and fearless- ness in all our negotiations with foreign nations. 

Another thing will strike us as singular, that while we are called on 

to make this secret-service appropriation for a secret purpose, the re- marks which ha>e fallen from different members of the House indicate that we are dealing with no secret at all, and if this be true it i 

proper we should discuss the proposition itself instead of involving it 

in ashroudofmystery. Ifsecrecyisnecessary, ofwhichihavenotbeen 

convinced, then only would this appropriation be justified without 

disclo ing all the facts. We as representatives ofthepeoplearesimply 

their trustees in regard to the money in the Treasury, and when appropriations of this kind requesting large sums for this secret-service fund 

are asked for we have a right to demand that good and cogent reasons should be given for our compliance, or else they should be so overwhelming in their nature as to COIIUlel the members of the committees 

to whom the facts have been disclosed to present greater harmony in 

their recommendations. As before remarked, I have not been convinced 

of the necessity for this amendment to our consular and diplomatic bill, 

and therefore can not recommend its adoption by this House. 

l'!:Ir. BURNES. How much time remains? 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has one minute remaining. 

Mr. BURNES. I will yield that one minute to my friend from 

Louisiana [Mr. ELLIS]. 

Mr. ELLIS. I thank the gentleman, but I do not want it. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from illinois [Mr. TOWNSHEND] 

is recognized as entitled to the floor. . 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I was about to remark, when I sought the 

floor a few moments ago, that the further discussion of this matter 

would be in the nature of inflicting punishment upon the members of 

this House. But as I am a member not onlY. of the Committee on Appropriations but also of the conference committee which has brought 

in this report, I feel that it is due to myself to occupy at least a few 

minutes in stating the rea ons why I have not concurred in the enate 

amendment. 

I will say that I really regret that any discussion has taken place 

upon thi question. It is difficult to di cuss the reasons that have 

prompted the request for this appropriation without diruging matters 

which I do not feel ought to be brought before this House. I will say 

that I have arrived at the conclusion I have reached in joining my 

friend from l\Ii ouri [1\Ir. BUR~~s] without finding it necessary toreflect upon anybody, either an official or a non-official. 

I think the reasons are apparent and clear enough without indulging in any reflections upon the motives of any one, and without-and 

I will not say that any one has done so-invading the secrets of the 

committee of conference. 

I have studied the questions as well as I could, in order that I might 

be enabled to arrive at a just and fair conclu ion upon this important 

question. And in one or two words only I will state the grounds upon 

which I base my oppo ition to the amendment of the Senate. 

We find there is a grant which was made to certain individuals for 

the construction of a canal across the Isthmus at Nicaragua. That 

grant contains a clear, distinct, unequivocal provli ion that it can not be 

assigned to the Government of the United States or to any other government. 

The next difficulty I have found in this case is this : A treaty exists 

which England does not admit has yet been abrogated, either by any 

action of hers or by her non-action. That is a treaty that specifically 

and unequivocally declares that the Government of the United States 

will not acquire the exclusive right to the construction of a canal across 

the Central-American ist.hmus without the co-operation or consent of 

Great Britain. 

A word or two more. Suppose that we appropriate this $250,000, 

and suppose, as gentlemen seem to have taken it for granted, it is to be • used for the purpo e of acquiring the rights enjoyed by this private 

corporation who hold a grant from Nicaragua, what use can we make 

of them? We can not make any use of them, because, in the first 

place, the grant itself declares that we can not acquire the title to the 

grant. - In the second place, we can not make any u e of the grant 

without involving ourselves in complications with Great Britain, to say 

the least of it. . Then, a it appears to me, if this . 250,000 is used for the purpo e 

of enabling this private corporation to accomplish what is necessary to 

be a-ccomplished by it in order to avoid a forfeiture of the grant in October next-if any of this money is expended to enable that corporation to preserve that franchise, that grant, then whatever use is made 

of it the benefits resulting from it will inure to the corporation, with 

no benefit whatever to this Government. 

· These are the reasons which have controlled my action in withholding my assent from the amendment of the Senate. I will not trespass 

further upon the patience of the House; but in accordance with promise will yield ten 1¢nutes to the gentleman from Colorado [1\Ir. BELFORD]. 

Mr. BELFORD. Mr. Speaker--

:\1r. BURNES. I rise to a point of order. If I have been correctly 

informed, each side in this debate was limited to an hour. ' 

The SPEAKER. No limitation has yet been put upon the debate. 

The previous question has not been demanded. 

Mr. BELFORD. I do not know, Mr. Speaker, what the love-birds 

of Africa, who constitute these two committees, may have finally concluded upon; but one thing to my mind is certain-this scheme ought 

not to be adopted; this amendment ought to be repudiated. 

We have running from Denver in my State to the old City of Mexico 

a line of railroad. We propose to run that road acro!SS the Isthmus of 

Panama through South and Central America, Argentine Republic, and 

the Empire of Brazil, so that the tourist may take a Pullman palacecar from the city of New York and travel without interruption till he 

sips his coffee under the shadow o.f the palace of the Emperor of Brazil. 

For what reason should we build the canal here proposed? What 

will best promote commerce? The expedition of transportation. That 

is the great solvent of the future. We are entitled to control the en- tire colWllerce of this continent, and we can only do so by the influence 

of railroads, which reduce the time occupied in the transportation of 

goods. Who control the commerce of Mexico? Foreigners. Who control the entire commerce of the Argentine Republic? The Italians. 

Who control the commerce of these other states? The subjects of France 

and England and Germany. We have had no ability to compete with 

them, because we had no vessels that could carry goods with equal 

promptitude. · Now, suppose that instead of constructing a canal of this kind, evidently in the interest of private speculators, we go to work and construct that railroad from the City of Mexico across the isthmus, through 

South and Central America. Can we not transport all our commerce 

upon that route in seven days instead of four weeks; and can we not, 

by the great. gain in point of time, overcome the competition of European 

powers ? I think this scheme for a canal is an idle project, and I propo_ e to vote against it. I shall do so on the principle that there is a betterway; that instead of giving $250,000 for the construction ofthis 

canal, we ought to give $250,000 to construct the railroad as I haYe 

described. When we get it con tructed we shall make England and 

France and Germany bow their heads in reverence to the commerce which 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL· RECORD-HOUSE. 6133 

we shall control, the commerce of the continent, to all of which we are 

justly entitled. With the8e "Views I shall vote against the amendment. 

Mr. TOWXSHEND. Now, if my friend from Colorado [Ur. BELFORD] will call the previous question--

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Missouri [Mr. BURXES] ha 

one minute remaining. 

~Ir. BURNES. I will occupy that minute in calling the attention 

of my genial, accomplished, and esteemed friend from Louisiana to a 

statement of the l\Ionroe doctrine :::s given in the message of President 

l\Ionroe in 1823: 

The occasion has been judged proper for a ert.ing, as a principle in which 

the rights and interests of the United States are involved, that the American 

continents, by the free and independent condition which they have assumed 

and maintained, are henceforth not to be considered as subjects for future colonization by any European power. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. BUR~ES. I regret I have nottimetoread the second and third 

utteran.ces of President Monroe on the same subject. In the third he 

~ys that the pEUce and quiet (which are synonymous with the happi- ness) of the people of this country will be involved in any attempt to 

interfere either with the existing in titutions or the governments of 

these people. 

I now moYe the previous question. 

Mr. WASHBURN. l move that the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate and agree to the same. 

The previous question was ordered. The question being taken on the motion of Mr. WASHBURN it was 

not agreed to there being-ayes 41, noes 48. 

Mr. BURNES. I move that the House further insist on its disapgreement to the amendment of the Senate. 

The motion was agreed to. . 

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Missouri move that a 

further conference with the Senate be requested? 

Mr. BURNES. Yes, sir. 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection, it will be so ordered. 

There was no objection; and the Speaker announced the appointment of :Mr. BURXES, l\Ir. TOWNSHEND, and l\Ir. WASH BUR..~ as the conferees on the part of the House. 

Mr. RANDALL. I would like to consult the wish of the House 

in relation to a recess to a. later hour in the day. There are members 

of the conference committees who do not desire to be out of the House 

when important questions between the two Houses are being discussed 

and disposed of. I am quite willing myself to continue to sit here, but 

I am pressed on all sides to submit a. proposition to the House. We 

ha.ve now been here nearly twenty-two hours, and if we could take a 

moderate length of time in recess perhaps we could get along better. I 

would s-aggest 3 o'clock p.m. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Oh, no; say 10 o'clock a. m. 

Ur. BLOUNT. I suggest that we follow the lead of those having 

charge of conferences. 

1\Ir. CALKINS. It is usual to follow the suggestion of the chairman 

of the Committee on Appropriations in such matters. 

Mr. RANDALL's motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at 7 o'clock 

and 20 minutes a. m., Sunday, July 6) the House took a recess until 

3 o'clock p.m. 

AFTER RECESS. 

At 3 o'clock p. m. (July 6) the Honse resumed its session, and was 

called to order by the Speaker. 

LEAVE OF ABSE~~. 

By unanimous consent, leave of absence was granted in the following 

cases: To Mr. ENGLISH, for ten days, on account of important business. 

To Mr. HATCH, of 1\Iissouri, indefinitely. 

To Mr. CosGROVE, for the remainder of the session. 

ToUr. POTTER, for one week, on a.ccountof important busmess. 

To Mr. JOHNSON, indefinitely. 

MEXICAN PENSION BILL. 

On motion of Mr. TOWNSHEND, by unanimous consent, the Mexican pension bill with Senate amendments was ordered to be printed. 

EDCCATIONAL BILL. 

1\Ir. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. 1\Ir. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent 

to present to the House the book I hold in my hand. This beautiful 

volume contains the names and post-office addresses of 5,000 men who 

petition this Congress to pass without delay a bill granting Fecleralaid 

on the basis of illiteracy to promote the cause of education. Judge 

Tourgee sent petitions like the one on the second page of this book to 

the subscribers of tb_e Continent, a. magazine of which he is the editor 

and publisher, and when the petitions were signed and returned to 

him he cut off the printed heading and caused the names, with one 

heading, to be bound in this volume, as he states in the first page. Other 

like volumes will be forwarded by him as the names are sent in. These 

petitioner pecifYcerta,in provisions which they insist should enter into 

any bill which shall become a law. JudgeTourgeehasprobably given more attention to this subject than any other man in the United States, 

and hence his int€rest in this matter. I ask that the petition on the 

second page and the explanation on the first page of thi volume be 

printed in the RECORD as a part of my remarks. This book will be 

placed in the Library, where it can be seen by any member desiring to 

examine it. 

The Clerk will please read the statement of Judge Tourgee and the 

petition. NEW YORK, Jtme 4,1884. 

In presenting the following petition to the members of the House of Representatives for their consideration I desire to state that it was made up under my immediate personal supervision, the headings of the separate papers of 

which it is composed being simply cut off and the petitions pasted into the volume-in the order in which they were received. No attemptwa made to reach specific individuals or classes. The petitions were sent only to the regular mail subscribersofthe Continent magazine and such 

others as made special application for them. The volume contains some 5,000 

signatures of men of all parties and of every shade of politicatthought. 

Thi volume contains only the fir t installment of the ignatures alr eady re- ceived; others will be prepared and forwarded from time to time until the 

question is finally settled. It is believed that almost e,·ery name is that of an intelligent and substantial citizen. Every State and Territory is represented. The utmost care has been taken to make the petition worthy of the repr~entatives of the people. In the hope that it may tend in some measure to guide in 

the correct application of a great and beneficent principle, I have the honor to subscribe the same. ALBIO~ W. TOURGEE. 

"Make the spelling-book the scepter of national power! " 

A PETITIPY. 

To the Senators and Membe:rs.ofthe House of Representatives 

of the Cong1·ess of the Unired Stat-es: 

'Vhereas the Qoyernment of the United States fostered and protected the in- stitution of slavery for three-quarters of a century; and 

Whereas the said institution of slavery was based upon ignorance and ren- dered necessary laws which prohibited, by the extreme t penalties, the education of the slave; and 

Whereas the said institution prevented the development of diversified industries, discouraged the establishment of public schools, and created throughout 

the South a very numerous ignorant class, known as "poor whites; " and 

Whereas at the close of the war of rebellion 4,000 000 of ignorant slaves were made free, and, as an unavoidable and intended resuJt of national legislation, were thereafter enfranchised and became equal political factors with the other 

citizens of the various States; and 

Whereas th~ said 4,000,000 of freedmen have now increased to more than 6,000,000, and because of generations of degradation and repression the greater 

part thereof are still illiterate; and - Whereas in sixteen of the States of the Union 40 per cent .. of the voters are confessedly unable to read the ballots which they cast, and a large portion of 

the rest of the popuJation of said States are unable to do more than merely spell out a few words with difficulty, and are in no useful sense able to read and 

write; and 

Whereas this population is increasing faster than was eYer known before in t.he history of any people, and the number of illiterates is year by year increasing at a still more rapid rate; and 

Whereas &'3 per cent. of the power of a majority in the House of Represen~ 

ativesand the Senate of the United States, as well as in the electoral college, is 

exercised by these communities, two-fifths of whose voters are neither able to comprehend their political duties, to understand how to perform them, or to see to it that what they do produces the results they intend; and 

Whereas the States of the South are not actually able, because of the impoverishment of slavery and the losses attendant upon war and em&ncipation, to provide schools for so great a m ultitnde of the illiterate; and 

Whereas "the only remedy for darkness is Tight; for ignorance, knowledge;" 

and 

Whereas this mass of uninstructed power is perilous to the nation's life and a. mena-ce to the liberty of every citizen in the land: Therefore, We whose names are hereto attachE}d;resident as set forth herein, profoundly impressed wilh a sense of national peril, and fully satisfied that justice, good 

policy, and the highest statesmanship demand such action at our hands, do re- spectfully and earnestly petition you, our agents and attorneys, the Senators 

and Representatives from the various States of this Union, to take instant meas- ures for the cure of this evil and for averting this impending peril, and do abjure you to make no delay in this business, which so nearly concerns your oaths to promote "the welfare of the United States;" and 

Whereas many riots and murders and outrages of various kinds have d isturbed the peace and disgraced the civilization of those States, and we believe 

that only the general enlightenment of all cia ses of the people can repress such 

evils, can prevent a conflict between the raceil at no distant day which must re- sult in the most horrible of all forms of civil war, we implore you also, by your sworn obligation, to provide for the national defense and the general safety of 

the land, that you without delay make such appropriation and provision for 

the promotion of intelligence and education as, without extravagance or un- necessary expenditure, shall most speedily and certainly tend to the immediate 

reduction of the ratio of illiteracy, especially in the Southern States, and among all races and classes of citizens. 

While submitting to your wisdom the details of the measure designed to se- cure the object in view, we would respectfully suggest that in our opinion it 

should contain the following elements: 1. The fund should be distributed according to illitera-cy, and the schools devoted to each race should .receive the amount to which the illiteracy of that race entitles them. 

2. It should be devoted wholly to the promotion of primary education, or the 

eradication of illiteracy, and should be applied only to the payment of teachers. 

3. It should be disbursed directly to each school district, according to the illi~ 

eracy therein, and only paid upon satisfactory proof that a primary school, or schools. under the charge of competent instructors, has been in operation in 

said district for a specified time during the year for which the appropriation is 

made. 

4. '!'hat the approprin.tion should in no case exceed one-half the legitimate expenses of the cho0l to which it is given, the remainder to be supplied either 

by State or local taxation, or by private contribution, and the payment thereof to be hown before disbursement of the national fund is made. 

5. That the proportion of the fund assigned for the illiterates of one race shall 

in no case be disoursed to schools for the other race , nor the appropriation for one year be ap_plied to the support of chools during another year. "'-ith these provi ion , and such others as your wisdom may dictate, we be- lieve that an expenditure of ten or even twenty m illions of dolla rs a year for a period of ten year;;; m.ight be economi<oally and effectively disbursed, and would 

accomplish m ore in securing the pro perity, good government. and secudty of 

the United States than any other po !.il>le nse to which the same could be applied. 

And your petitioners will ever pray, &c. 
6134 CONGRESSIONAL RECOR.D-HOU E. JULY 5, 

On motion of Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama, by unanimous consent, the 

House (at 3 o clock and 3 minutes p.m.) took arec for fifteen minute. 

AFTER RECE S. 

At 1 minutes after3 o'clock p.m. the House resumed its ses ion. 

Mr. RANDALL. 1\ir. Speaker, I de ire to make a motion to take a recess for an hour. In upport of that motion it is proper for me to say 

I of course am reluctant to keep the Hou e in s ion on this actual 

day, but in one hour it will be sufficiently developed by consultation 

of conferees whether an agreement is likely to be reached to-day. 

I believe in all probability the consular and diplomatic bill will come 

from the Senate with such action as will secure its immediate pre entation to the Pre1 ident. 

The ueficiency bill is still in conference. 

The conferees on the naval bill are unable to agree. In obedience to a suggestion a bill ha been prepared by each side looking to an appropriation for six months for the support of the Nary, which may be a solution of the difficulty between the two Hou e . That would leaYe 

out of course for six months any appropriation for monitors or duplication of cruisers. Still it w.ill contain an appropriation looking to the 

completion of the crni ers. It will embrace also for six months an appropriation of$500,000 for armament. It was inserted by vote of the 

House over the recommendation of the committee, and the conferees on 

the part of the Hou e felt in duty bound to recognize that vote of the 

House in that particular. Otherwise they would not have done it. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Will the gentleman allow me to say 

that on last night in the middle of my speech he .took me off the floor 

to pre ent a report from the committee of conference on one of the appropriation bills, with the right reserved and accorded to me of resuming 

and concluding my remarks ome time between now and next December. Now, instead of taking a recess, I would be glad, with the indulgence of the House, to entertain them for about three-quarters of an hour. [Laughter.] If it be the ense of the House that I may pr~ 

Ct-t.'<i and conclude my remarks now it will be more atisfactory to me. 1\Ir. RANDALL. The gentleman from Indiana will permit me to 

state that I did not take him off the floor except .by his own consent. 

1\'Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. By no means. I yielded the floor at 

the suggestion of the gentleman, and for that reason I appeal to him to 

allow me to proceed now. Mr. RANDALL. I think the gentleman from Indiana had better 

take a later time in this session. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. In this session? 

1\ir. RANDALL. There are not many members pre ent yet, and I 

feel obliged to press the motion. I am satisfied that by the expiration 

<Of that time it will be demonstrated beyond all doubt .whether there 

will be agreements between the two Houses in the matters now in con- -troversy.· 

Mr. MILLS. Do you expect that we will be allowed to adjourn tonight'? 

Mr. RANDALL. Yes, sir; undoubtedly-at least that is my hope. 

~Ir. HOLMAN. Permit me to state that with reference to the fourth 

bil1, to which the gentleman from Pennsylvania has not referred, there 

is but a single item of disagreement. I refer to the legislative bill. 

lli. RANDALL. I have not said anything about that bill because 

the gentleman from Indiana himself who had charge of the bill was present on the floor, and I preferred that he should make the statement 

him elf. · · 

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Indiana desire to be 

heard? 

Mr. HOLMAN. Only to say that with reference to this fourth bill, 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania having mentioned three others that are pending-that with reference to the legislative bill there is but a single item in controversy between the two Houses, and that question 

will be presented at an early date for the action of the House. 

i\Ir. RANDALL. I now ask that the motion I have made be submitted to the House. 

1\fr. VALENTINE. I hope the gentleman from Pennsylvania will 

not urge the motion for a recess. A gentleman on the other side of the 

House occupied an hour last night in the discussion of this 1\Iexican 

pension bill, and it is only proper that this ide should have the opportunity of a reply. 

Mr. RA.J.~DA.LL. Thi is Sunday, and I do not want to encourage or to do anything that will bring up a debate of an acrimonious or a political charact~r on to-day. 

l\Ir. VALENTINE. The debate on the other side partook of that 

character. 

'I:r. RAJ\TDALL. I only want to stay here on Sunday as a necessity 

to get clear of the appropriation bills. Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. The peech on the other side was made on Sunday. 

everal MEMBER : Oh no. 

l\1r.l\1ILLER, of Penrisylvania. It commenced after 12 o'clock last 

nip;ht. 

)1r. RANDALL. I dislike to do anything that seems discourteous 

to the gentleman from Indiana, but I must insist upon the motion in 

the interest of the completion of the appropriation bills, and for the rea on I have tated. 

The question was taken. The House divided; and there were-ayes 

52, noes 21. · 

1\Ir. ::\fALLS. No quorum. 

The PEAKER. The point of order being made that no quorum has 

Toted, the Chair will appoint tellers. 

1\Ir. RANDALL. I want to urge upon the gen:leman who makes 

the point of a quorum as against the recess that there are members of 

the conference committees that do not want to be a.b entfrom the House 

when it is in ession if it is po :ible for them to be here, and as the 

only busine in my judgment that should be transaeted on this day is 

the necessary business relatinO' to the conferences, I hope the point will 

not be insisted upon. . :Mr. STEELE. That could readily be arranged if the members of 

the conference committee desire<l to be present. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Who made the point of order ? 

The SPEAKER. The Chair understands the gentleman from Nebraska to have made it. 

1\Ir. VALENTINE. I did not make the point of ord~r. 

Mr. SMALLS. I made it, but at the suggestionofgentlemenarouud me I will withdraw it although I would like to hear the speech of the 

gentleman from Alabama [Mr. HEWITT] answered. 

Mr. BROWNE of Indiana. May I be permitted to say a word? 

I thought it was but right that I should baTe an opportunity of simply 

stating how this Mexican pen ion bill now stands with the Senate amendments, in order that the country may know precisely the issue that had 

been dividing the parties here during the last three days. I do not desire to make anything like a partisan or political speech; but after the 

gentleman on the other ide [~1r. HEWITT] has consumed an hour, if 

the House shall think it be t now that I say nothing at this tage of 

the session; that this ide should say nothing; that we should stand 

mute; that we hould submit this case, and that that is fair, I will submit to the judgment of the House. 

Mr. RANDALL. There is no effort on my part to gag anybo!'ly. 

1\fr. HOLMAN. Allow me to say to my colleague from Indiana that 

it is scarcely fair to say that there has been a division between the parties on this question. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I referred in that statement to the two 

sides as divided upon this bill. I spoke in no political sense at all. I 

know that there are Democrats favoring it and Democrats opposing it. 

The SPEAKER. The point of no quorum having been withdrawn, 

the motion for a recess is agreed to. 

And accordingly (at3 o'clock and 32 minutes p. m.) the House took a recess for one hour. 

AFTER THE RECESS. 

The recess having expired, the House (at 4 o' clock and 42 minutes 

p. m.) resumed its session. 

ORDER OF BUSINES . 

Mr. THOMPSON. Iaskunanimousconsent- [Cries of "Regu- lar order!"] 

1\Ir. SCALES. I ask unanimous consent to present a enate resolution referred to the Committee on Printing for pre ent action. 

The SPEAKER. The resolution will be read, ubject to objection. 

The Clerk read a follow : 

Resol<Ued by the Senate (the House of Representativesconcurri11g), 1. That the Joint Committee on Public Printing is hereby instructed to examine into the numbers printed of the various documents, reports, bills, and other paper published by order of Congres , or of either House thereof, and of the CONGR ION AL REcoRD, 

and to report a bill in December next·, making such restrictions in the number and cost of printing, and uch changes and reductions in the distribution of said publications as they may deem expedient, with a report gi'\"ing their rea ons therefor; and that the said committee i also in tructed to investigate the printing and binding for the Executive Departments, executed at the Government Printing Office, and at the branch printing office and binderies in the variou Departments, and report a bill in December next making such reduction. in expen es and imposing uch checks as they may deem expedient, with a report 

giving their reasons therefo:r:; and said committee is further instructed to make any other investigations calculated in their opinion to reduce the cost of the public printing, and report the result thereof; and the said committee i hereby authorized to summon and to examine experts and witne e , and to call upon the heads of the Executive Department and the Public Printer for such infor- mation regarding the preceding matters as they may desire; and any expen es nece sarily incurred in making the investigations aforesaid shall be defrayed 

equally from the contingent funds of the two Hou e of Congres . 2. aid committee i hereby authorized to sit during the recess for the purposes of the first section h e reof and in the discharge of its u ual duties. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request ofthegentleman 

from North Carolina? 

.Mr. CHACE. I object. 

(:)RDER OF BU D\"'ESS. 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is demanded. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I move that the House take a further recess of one hour. I wish to state that the report of the committee of conference on the sundry civil bill will be reported to the House to be presented 

to the two Houses at quite an early moment, to be followed by thereport on the naval appropriation bill. By taking a rece for the period 

of one hour the business of Congress will be Yery much promoted. 

Mr. TUCKER. I ask the gentleman from Indiana to withhold his 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6135 

motion for a moment to allow me to pre ent a report from the Committee on the Judiciary. 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection the gentleman from Virginia [Mr. TUCKER] will send up his report. 

There was no objection. 

PUEBLO OF A - FRANC! CO. 

Mr. TUCKER, by unanimous consent, from the Committee on the 

Judiciary, reported back a resolution relating to the grant to the 

pueblo of San Francisco, and moved that it be)aid upon the table and 

that the accompanying report be printed. 

The motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINE 

The SPEAKER. The question is on the motion of the gentleman 

from Indiana [l\Ir. HOU!IAN] that the "House take a recess for one 

hour. 

1\ir. O'NEILL, of Pennsylvania. I think it might be well to extend 

the rece until 7 o'clock. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Indiana states that the report on the undry ch-il bill will be ready in a short time, to be followed by t e report on the naval bill. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I find, after consultation with gentlemen 

who are in favor of the amendments of the Senate to the Mexican-war 

pension bill, that they believe it is but just to them, to the House, and 

to the country that I should correct some of the mistakes that were inadvertently committed in the argument·of the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. HEWITT]. I hope, there{ore, while the conference committees are absent and are engaged in other work, the HouAe willnottake 

a recess, but that I will be permitted to proceed to make that statement. I had the floor at the time the gentleman from Pennsylvania 

[l\Ir. RANDALL] entered the House with a conference report, and 

yielded it becau e I did not desire to obstruct that business, in which 

the whole House and the country are so deeply interested. Having 

been thus courteous to the Housel do think I am not asking too much 

when I appeal to it to allow me to proceed. 

Mr. HENLEY. My recollection is-I appeal to the House for its 

accuracy upon that point-that the gentleman from Indiana had approximately the ·same amount of time that the gentleman from Alabama has had. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. The gentleman from California is very 

much mistaken. Heis mistaken by overforty-fiveminutes; that is all. 

Mr. HENLEY. I do not think so. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I hope the gentleman will be granted 

the privilege of addre ing the House. 

The SPEAKER. But the gentleman from Indiana has made a motion for a recess for one hour. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Will not the gentleman from Indiana [l\Ir. HOLMAN J 

{!Onsent that we remain in session for debate only on this question, no 

other business to be transacted? 

Mr. HOLMAN. I made the motion I did out of deference to the 

-common sentiment of our country in regard to the employments proper 

for the Sabbath day. I think Congress should show a decent respect 

for the opinions of their constituents in regard to the Sabbath, and that 

no other business hould be done to-day than that which is necessary 

-to be done. That is my sentiment; but I will not insist on the motion. I withdraw the motion for the recess. 

1\Ir. YOUNG. I renew it. I move that the House take a recess 

-until 6 o'clock. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I regret my colleague [Mr. HOLMAN] 

.(lid not make that suggestion when the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. 

HEWITT] was addressing the Hou e. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I hope my frieJid from Tennessee [Mr. 

YOD'NG] will be generous to the opposition and not insist on his motion 

for a rece s. ·. 

Mr. YOUNG. I should be very glad to hear the gentleman from Indiana on this important question. . But if he addresses the House other 

gentlemen will want to be heard, and I should like to have an opportunity of disco ing the question myself 

Mr. PETERS. I give notice that I shall insist on a quorum on the motion for a recess. 

The SPEAKER: The question is on the motion of the gentleman 

from Tennessee [Mr. YOUNG] that the House take a recess until6 

o'clock. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 38, noes 58. 

So (further count not being called for) the motion was not agree 

The SPEAKER. 

entitled to the floor. 

ing. 

l\IEXICAN-WAR PENSIONS. 

The gentleman from Indiana [1\ir. BROWNE] 

He has forty-eight minutes of his time remainMr. BROWNE of Indiana. Mr. Speaker, when I yielded the floor I 

was proceeding to say that the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. HEWITT] 

critici es the amendments to this bill-one of them, at least-because 

in the case of widow the pension is not confined to tho e who were wive of the soldiers at the time they performed the services or at the 

time of their discharge. The amendment as it stands is in accordance 

wit.h the uniform rule pursued in pension cases. Our legislation has • 

rarely limited pensions to widows who were wive when the deceased 

husbands were in the service. In every instance in which pensions 

have been granted to tho e who have ubsequentlydied becanseofdisabilities incurred in the service they have gone to the surviving widows, 

without regard to the time of marriage. Until now the propriety of 

this legi lation has never been challenged. Whether or not this be a 

correct principle, it will add a very small sum to the pension account, 

and I shall not stop to discuss that question further. I doubt the siricerity of this objection and fear it is used as a mere pretext by those 

who are unwilling to give the Union soldier any relief by this bill. 

The gentleman from Alabama insist that the amendments enlarge 

the provisions of the original act so far as the soldiers of the Mexican 

war are concerned. In that he is evidently mistaken. For, as I said 

this morning, they not only cut off from a right to pension all those 

who e names appeared on the roll, but who actually performed no service in that war, but they restrict the ervice pension to two classes: 

First, to those who have attained or may hereafter attain the age of 62; 

and secondly, those who are subject to a disability or dependence of 

such charaeter as is equivalent to some of the cause prescribed or recognized in the pension laws of the United States. And this as a service-pension is most generous. 

· The men who fought at Lexin_gton and Monmouth, and Saratoga, 

Bunker Hill, and Yorktown were not allowed a service-pension until 

June 7, 1832, fifty years after the clo e of the Re...-olution and when 

its survivors were of the average age of 75 years. And then no provision was made for the surviving widows. They were given a pension for the first time by the act of July 4, 1 36. No Revolutionary 

oldier wa entitled to a pension under the act of 1832 unless he had 

erved at least six months. We did not give a soldier of 1812 a hortservice pension until March, 1878; nor until the average age of the 

soldiers of that war was 86 years. By this most liberal bill we require 

of the Mexican war soldier a service of fourteen days only, and that 

he shall have but attained the age of 62. In the light of these undeniable facts, who will say this measure is illiberal to the Mexican war 

soldier ? Who would put him above the heroic men of 1776 and 1812? 

But, sir, I have shown that this bill as it is amended restricts rather 

than enlarges the class of claimants to whom pensions would have been 

given under the original act. My friend, therefore, is mistaken, very 

badly mistaken, when he objects to this bill because it increases the 

expenditures from the Treasury. It does exactly the reverse. 

He next insists that the bill discriminates against the Mexican soldier 

and in favor of the soldier who performed service in the Union Army 

in the late war. Here he commits a still graver mistake. But before 

proceeding to discuss that point I hope he will allow me to call his 

attention to the fact that every one oftbe Mexican soldiers, those who 

were actually in the service and those who were not in it, has been given 

by the liberality of the American Congress a land-warrant for one hundred and sixty acres of the public domain. .Every man of them has 

received his land-warrant or his land-scrip or its equivalent who was 

in the service of the Government in the Mexican war. 

The legislation of Congress. on that subject began by providing that 

those who had served a given length of time should receive a land-' 

warrant for one hundred and sixty acres, another class serving less time 

should receive eighty acres, and still another class forty acres. But 

by sub equent legislation all of them, without regard to the time of 

service, were given each one hundred and sixty acres of the public domain. The record shows that these men got their land to the last acre. 

In this they have been favored above the Union soldier . 

This land bounty has never been accorded to the Union soldier of 

the late war. No matter how long he may have served, how valuable 

or how distinguished his services may have heen, he has never received 

and perhaps never will receive from the Government of the United 

States a single acre of the public domain. Tho e who oppose this bill 

will certainly never vote him a land-warrant. 

1\Ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. I ask the gentleman to yield one moment. I would like to ask him ifalarge numberofthe Union soldiers 

did not receive a bounty in money. 

1\Ir. BROW:NE, of Indiana. Yes, a 'ery large number of them re- ceived bo ties in money; which were not given to the soldiers of the 

M:exi war. But a very large number (a fifth or sixth of the whole num r, perhaps ten time as many as all who were engaged in the 

M can war) received no bounty at all, or, if any, a very insignificant 

o e. But, sir, were these wars equal-equal in duration, in sacrifice, · suffering, in danger, in results, in anything? 

Now let me call the attention of gentlemen of the House to the faet 

that by several acts of Congress there was given to the soldiers of the war of 1 12, of the Mexican war, and of the various Indian wars which 

the gentleman from Alabama included in his bill, and for the passage 

of which he eems to be so anxious, an aggregate of over 62,000,000 

acres of the public lands. What an empire was this! How munificent 

this gift. 

1\ir. HEWITT, of Alabama. I would like to tate to th~ gentlel_llan 

that if he will examine the records he will find that two-thirds of that 

land was stolen from the soldiers. 
6136 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Stolen from them? How stolen? You 

surpri e me. 

.Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I perhaps should not say t'Yo-thirds, 

that is a little extravagant. But at leastone-fourthof the land granted 

to the oldiers ofthe Indian wars and of the Mexican war wa.s absolutely tolen from them. 

1\lr. BROWNE, of Indiana. By whom? Certainly not by the Government. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. You -will find by an examination of 

the records in New York and other States that the land-warrants were 

obtained from the soldiers and sold to other parties. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Suppose that were true; I am talking 

about what the Government did. The fad the gentleman states, if 

historically correct, does not affect the generous disposition of the Government of the United States to""ard these men. That these soldiers 

were swindled is no fimlt of the Government. 

Mr. I;IEWITr, of Alabama. I beg your pardon. 

l\Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. Allow me to proceed. Let me say that 

of this 62,000,000 acres of bounty lands given to these soldiers over 

16,000,000 acres went to the soldiers of the Mexican war alone. Now, 

let u look at that for a moment. Sixty-two millions of acres makes 

96, 75 quare miles, or the equal of a territory 311 miles square; a domain twice as large as the great State of Indiana. The Mexican war 

soldiers alone got a territory two-thiJds as large as that State. Yet the 

gentleman talks about the legislation of Congress discriminating a,aainst 

the oldiers of the Mexican war. Sir, they have been favored by that 

legislation above all others, as I have shown, and as I will show as I 

proceed. 

The next thing the gentleman ha asserted is that this eighth section, 

taken I suppose in connection with the other provisions of the bill, 

will take from the Treasury of the United States the immense sum of 

$2,000,000,000. I would ha•e been gratified had the gentleman favored the House with the figures by which he reached that startling 

conclusion. Pardon me for a -erting that this estimate is absurd. 

I have had something to do in figuring upon estimates for pensions 

upon this and other bills, and am safe in saying that the gentleman' 

statement is a fearful exaggeration. ~ow let us see. To be brief, 

acc01·ding to the highest estimate made by any one who understands the 

question this bill in the aggregate, including every class of pensioners 

contemplated by it, willnotputuponthepension-rollsmorethan 250,000 names. Remember that there are now pending in the Pension Bureau 

from two hundred and fifty to three hundred thousand applications for 

pension , a large percentage of which will go upon the pension-roll 

under the law as it now stands. 

If claimants for pensions under the eighth section of this bill are 

taken from those who have applications now pending, and many will 

be, the result as to these will not be to increase the pension expenditures at all, for if they are not paid under this act they will be paid 

under the general law. However this may be, I put the highest number of beneficiaries under these amendments at 250,000. The average 

pension will be about $100 a year, and the amount to be met therefore 

will be 25,000,000 for the first ;year. · But we must remember that 

these pensions, under the eighth section,•are granted only to a class of 

disabled or diseased or infirm persons, and that death from year to year 

will rapidly diminish the roll. And it is not within the possibility of 

things that it can reach '2,000,000,000 or 1,000,000,000or $500,000,-

000. 

I believe sincerely that the total cost of the Senate amendments to 

this bill will not be equal to the sum the Government has paid as interest on the national debt for a single year. The opposition to this measure set up its co t simply to frighten the timid. 

But again, it is claimed that this bill by the eighth ection discriminates against the soldier of the Mexican war and in favor of the Union 

soldier. Let us ee. The fir t section gives, as I have already attempted to how, a sernce-pension to tho e who have attained the age 

of 62, and to those who are disabled or who are dependent, and pension are pronded for tho e who served. from one to fourteen days. 

That is what is done for the soldier of the Mexican war. If he served 

from one to fourteen days, if he has attained or hall attain the age of 

62 years, or if he suffers under a disability or is dependent, he receives 

a pension. 

How i it as to the Union soldier, under the provisions of the eighth 

section? In the first place, he must have sen-ed three months-not 

merely one day or fourteen da,ys. In the next place, the language is: 

'Vho has or hall become disabled from any cause not the result of his own 

gross carelessne s, &c. 

In the first place, he must have served three months; in the econd 

plaee he must be suffering from a disability which i not the result of 

his own -vicious habits or disreputable conduct. What further than 

that? 

And shall al o be dependent upon his own labor for support, or shall be chargeable upon the charity of others who are not by law required to give him 

snpport. 

.All thCJ e things must concur before the nion oldier can receive a 

pension under the eighth ection of this bill. He must have served 

three months; he must be disabled in a pensionable degree, and he must 

be dependent upon his own labor or upon the charity of other people for 

support . 

Now, let me stop here and appeal to gentlemen on both sides. As a matter of j nstice to the oldier who has faithfully and heroically served 

hi country, ought not the Government, when that soldier becomes disabled and dependent, to put him upon the pension-roll and save him 

from becoming the object of private or pul.>lic charity, whether he is to 

be supported by others who are under no obligations to support him, or 

whether he must be committed to one of the common poor-houses of 

the country? Can it be po ible that any one denies this obligation of 

the country'? 

Mr. McMILLIN. Will the gentleman yield to me a moment? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Always to my friend from Tennessee. 

1\Ir. 1\Ic:UILLIN. The gentleman has described two classes of cases 

provided for under ~his bill, ~e cases of soldiers of the Mexican war 

and the cases of soldiers of the late war. Now, does not the gentleman 

think it unjust to give to the widow of the soldier of the Mexican war 

only a month, and to the widow of a soldier of the late war 12 a month? Does he not think it unjust to give to the totally disabled 

soldier of the Mexican war $ a month, and to the totally di a bled soldier of the late war $24 a month? There is what I concei re to be thegreat injustice of this bill, which I think no man can justify. 

Mr. BROWNE of Indiana. I have attempted to show that while 

the provisions of this bill are extended to soldiers of the Mexican war 

who performed from one to fourteen days' service--a cia of oldiersevery one of whom has received one hundred and ixty acres of the public lands; a benefit which has not been given to the Union soldierthis bill is not objectionable as creating a discrimination or an ineq uality between these two classes of soldiers. 

~Ir. ~IcMILLIN. But that remark does not apply to all of eitherclass. A portion of the Union oldiers received 300 bounty, and a 

portion of the soldiers of the Mexican war who are to get but 8 a. month for total disability, served not only three months but a year or 

more than a year. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. But will the gentleman permit me to. 

say that under this eighth section a disa,bled Union soldier may receive 

only 8 or $4 or S2 or 1 a inonth, while in every in tance the soldier 

of the Mexican war is to have a month? Under the eighth ection 

of tills bill the pension to be received by the Union soldier is to be fixed 

according to the degree of disability, while to the Mexican soldier, 

without regard to the degree of his disability, the bill grants a pension 

of a month ab olutely. 

Mr. McMILLIN. But where the disability is total the soldier of 

one class gets SS a month and the soldier of the other class 24 a month. 

There is the injustice of which I complain. 

~Ir. BROW1-.TE, of Indiana. That may be true. I do not say that 

thi mea ure, taken as a whole, doesnotcontain some inequalities andl 

defects. But the gentleman will permit me to say to tho e who have 

united with my friend from Alabama [Ur. HEWITI]-I do not say 

that this remark includes the gentleman, and it does not make any 

difference whether it does or not-do you not know that by your tactics you have prevented us as well as yoursehes from suggesting any 

kind of amendment to these provisions put upon the bill by the Senate? You ha•e absolutely tied the hands of this House so that we 

ha•e not been able to amend this bill at all in order to meet the objection which you now make to it. 

Mr. McMILLIN. But there is no man here deluded enough to believe that there can be at this stage of the session a single amendment 

accomplished to remedy the "inequalities " of which the gentleman 

speaks. The gentleman does not say that he believes such amendment 

practicable. · 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana.. I do not know what might have been 

accomplished. I only know we had no opportunity to try. I attempted 

to reach this mea ure a week ago and was voted down. 

Ur. l\IcM.rLLL.~ rose. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. If the gentleman will indulge me, I 

have a line of argument I desire to follow. 

lli. l\IcMILLI~. I was going to call the gentleman's attention to. 

the fact, in response to what he said, that his motion to adopt the amendment of the Senate is the very injustice we speak of. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. It does not come with good grace for 

gentlemen to talk about the bad faith of denying motions to adopt 

amendments and all that when they put a bill through this House 

under a suspension of the rules which they now confe was extrava-

~ant and would take million of dollars from t he Trea ury of the United 

States. 

~lr. Mc~IILLIN. The bill which came from the ::Senate is no more 

like the one which went from the House--

~Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. No; it is very much improved, I admit. 

It is juster if not cheaper. Now l\Ir. Speaker I ba•e attempted to how that when you takethi whole measure together there i in it no inju tice, extravagance, or inequality of whlch the gentleman or the country ha•e a right to 

complain, and I have attempted to how in the econd place that the 

eighth section, to which o much objection was made by the gentleman 

from Alabama, is absolutely just to both the Union and Mexican war 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6137" 

soldiers. I do not belie\e the gentleman from Alabama, ""ith all his 

courage, would dare put himself upon record as voting against it. He 

may stand up and be counted against it, but when the roll is called 

this record ' that doth make cowards of us all'' would probably show 

his name in its favor. 

Ur. HEWITT, of Alabama. I never vote standing up when I would 

not vote upon the record. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. The gentleman may have that courage. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I hope the gentleman from Indiana will let me make a uggestion as to the amount of cash w bich will be required 

to pay these pensions. The Commissioner has informed me twice that 

he had made a careful computation of the amount which would be re- quired to pay these pensions, and that the pro>ision relating to Union 

soldiers would amount to 12,000,000, and the provision relating to 

Mexican soldiers to $4,000,000, and that he is satisfied it will cost no more. ~Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. I am wry thankful to the gentleman 

for giving the House that information. I said tha,t the amended bill 

would cost twice that much, and am willing to stand by it if it should, 

to stand by it at all co ts, for it is right. Let us see what this bill 

provides as it now stands. 

Mr. COX, of New York. Will the gentleman from Indiana answer a question? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I do not know whether I can, as the 

gentleman from New York often asks questions that are very puzzling. 

Mr. COX of New York. Do you not think this bill has been handicapped and loaded down in order to reject it? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Do I so think? No. 

1\Ir. COX, of New .York. Yes; has not the Mexican pension bill 

been handicapped with amendments in order to destroy it? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. The only objectionable part of the bill 

is the Mexican war part of it. 

Mr. COX, of New York. You do not answer my question. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. No, sir; not on our side. I have not 

heard such an intimation before. ~1r. COX of New York.. The Senate loaded it down to reject it. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I have heard rumors of certain gentle- men professing to support the bill who were not in earnest about it. 

1\Ir. COX, of New York. I am rather simple about it, but did you 

not handicap the bill with these amendments? 

.Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. · I have no doubt you are simple about 

it. The opposition can not escape by this route, even by your help. 

Mr. COX, of New York. Yes; it means the truth, and that is all 

there is about it. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. What is the next amendment of the 

Senate? It is simply to increase the pension of the widows of private 

soldiers from $8 to $12 a month. This applies to widows of all soldiers 

in all our wars. The simple statement of the fact is all I need say 

in its defense. That is all; the statement makes its own argument 

that we propose to give these widows the pitiful sum of $12 a month. 

I take it for granted nobody but the gentleman from .Alabama and 

those who have obstructed the passage of the bill are opposed to this 

amendment. 

Mr. HEWI'IT, of Alabama. If the gentleman had listened to me last night he would have known that I said that I would vote for that 

part of the bill. 

1\>Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. The next amendment is that where one drawing a pension from the United States because of disability dies 

leaving a widow and infant children, that a pension shall inure to the 

widow and the infant children without proof that the death was actually the result of th~ disability. In other words, when the pensioner · who needs the pension in his own lifetime for the support of his wife and 

children dies, the w.idow and infant children shall be entitled to suc- ceed to the pension without proof, as is now required by law, that the 

death actually occurred by reason · of the disabilities for which he is 

put upon the pension-roll in the first instance; and the mere statement 

of that proposition is all I care to say in it8 defense. Its justice has 

not prevented gentlemen from filibustering for three whole days to 

defeat it. 

What next? The law as it now is gives a pension to the infant children of deceased soldiers until they reach the age of 16 year8. That is 

the existing law. 

Now, this next provision extends the pension to tbe infant children 

of decea ed soldiers after they have passed beyond the age of 16 years 

in the event they are of unsound mind, insane, or idiotic, or are in 

other respects helpless and unable to take cal'e of themselves. 

This section, therefore, simply declares that the helpless condition of 

infancy continues as to these children after they have attained the age 

of 16 years. In the case of children in perfect health and ound mind 

the pension terminates at 16 years; but when they are helpless because 

of un oundness of mind or disease of body the pension continues to 

them, as it ought to do; and I challenge any gentleman to controvert 

the propriety of that provision in the enate amendment. I want to see who has the courage to deny a pension to this helpless class of 

soldiers' orphans. And what next? · 

The next continues the pension to the dependent father and mother, 

where the soldier son has left no widow or minor children, under almost .• the same conditions that continues the husband's pension to the widow. 

Where the pensioned soldier died from his disability leaving no dependent children or widow it continues the pension to the father or motherwhen it is shown that the father or mother were dependent upon their · own labor for support, or are dependent upon the charitable contributions of others who are under no legal obligation to afford them that . support. Let me here quote this section. It is as follows: 

SEC. 12. That in considering the claims of dependent parents the fact and. cause of death and the fact that the soldier left no widow or minor children . hanng been shown as required by law, it shall be necessary only to show by 

competent and sufficient evidence that such dependent parent is without other- present means of comfortable support than his or her own manual labor, or the - contributions of others not legally bound for his or her support; and such as . may be found to be entitled to $8 a month under existing laws shall receive in lieu thereof $12 a month from the date of this act. 

That, Mr. Speaker, is a humane provision which simply gives a pension to the old mother or father of a son who is dead, because of""ounds . or disabilities incurred in the service. This section confines the pension 

to cases where the proof of fact has been made that the death was the · Tesult of wound or disabilities incurred by the soldier in the service · 

of the United States, and in that event the Go\ernment comes for-- ward and says to the parents of the soldier who has given his life, who· has laid himself down in the \alley of death because of his patriotism 

and his heroism-the Government says it will provide for that father· and motheriftheyare so poor as to be dependent upon their daily laborfor their maintenance, or are dependent upon the charities of others. 

Is not this right? It will enlarge the pension-roll but little, and the- few this section will add to it will not remain upon it long. These 

old men and women are rapidly passing away. Before they are all 

gone let the nation testify its regard for the sacrifices of their dead sons- by gi\ing them a little pension. 

The last of the Senate amendments is one that I think every mem- ber of the House who has had any experience in the Pension Bureau 

recognizes as most eminently wise, just, and proper. It provides that. 

where the Government of the United States has accepted the services. 

of its citizen, has accepted him into the military senice, that that ac- ceptance shall be prima facie evidence of the fact that he was sound at 

the time of his enlistment. It simply applies~ what ought to be the· rule in such cases, the doctrine of estoppel as against the Government. and forbids it to deny the soundness of its citizen soldier after it has 

voluntarily accepted his services. It must be remembered that it is- only prim,a fade, and may be set aside by proof of the fact that the disability existed prior to or at the time of his enlistment, and in that- event no pension will be given. ' 

The present law, which requires from the pension claimant affirma- - t:ive proof of soundness at enlistment, is not only a great hardship but 

ithasdefeated thousandsofmeritoriousclaims. We all know this. No- one denies it or dares attack this amendment. 

Now, gentlemen, I have gone over the amendments of the Senate to· this pension bill. I admit that I was opposed to the Mexican war pension bill, and could not have voted for it as originally presented tothe House. But after these amendments, after the adoption of these 

very judicious amendments on the part of the Senate, I am heartily 

in favor of it. With certain amendments, which I mentioned in the 

discussion at the time, I would ha\e supported the original Mexican. war pension bill. In regard to the Mexican war soldier I then said :: 

Now, what dol say is regard to these sixty-day men? Here is an amendment I propose t.o offer to the bill. I propose-and I speak for myself-to give every man who actually served in Mexico or participated in any battle in the Mexican_ war a pension, without regard to the time of his service. I propose, in the sec- ond place, to put on the pension-roll every man who was on the muster·roll of the Army of the United States for sixty days in that war who will show he was in such pecuniary condition as to need the assistance of the Government in his- maintenance. 

As to the Union soldiers and their interests, I said: 

I insist that when this bill is considered it shall come into the House, so that we may have an opportunity of amending it and by our amendments seek to do- justice to the soldiers of the war for the Union. 

As the bill has at last been amended. to meet in a large measure my 

views in these, I have given it my sincere support. 

Mr. HEWITT, of .Alabama. Will the gentleman pardon me a mo- ment? The section that he has just referred to in regard to proof o! 

soundness I would be willing to extend still further. I would go fur- ther than even the Senate goes, because when the Go\ernment accepts 

the seTvices of the soldier, after it ha made its examination and de- clared him sound and accepted him into the service, the Go,ernment 

ought to be e topped from denying his claim in that respect. 

:l'!Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. I submit to the gentleman from .Ala--

bama whether it is exactly fair for him, after peaking an hour, to re- peat hi peech in the body of mine. I desire to be kind and indulgent to all gentlemen upon the floor. I understand the gentlem~m to · occupy the position that this is a just provision of the bill. I do not 

want to put him in a false light. I ha\e undertaken to tate the facts 

exactly a they appear, and I ha\e not said anything else. I have 

attempted to show to the House th.."tt the amendments of the Senate- are wise and judicious, and that they are uch as patriotic men may 

assent to. It is such a bill as should pa the House without ob true--
6138 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

tion from any quarter. I have attempted to show that the expenditures involved in · this measure have been exaggerated-! hope not 

intentionally exaggerated; but that they have been frightfully exaggerated is certain. . I have attempted to shqwthat it is impo ible in the nature of things 

that this measure can cost the Treasury of the United States one-fourth or more than one-fourth of the sum named by the gentleman from 

Alabama. 

How much time ha\e I remaining? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. THO:\IPNON). The gentleman has 

eighteen minutes of his time remaining. 

Mr. TILLMAN. Will the gentleman from Indiana permit me to 

suggest one difficulty? The gentleman from Illinois [1\Ir. TowNREND J stated a moment ago that the Commissioner of Pensions had 

stated the cost of this bill would be about $12,000,000 a year for Union 

oldiers. Now I wi h to ask the gentleman from Indiana if the clause 

be retained in the bill granting pensions on the ground of dependencedependence either on the labor of the soldier or upon private charitywhether that is not such an unknown quantity that no man can approximate an accurate estima.te. In that connection will the gentleman please permit me a minute longer? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I have agreed to give ometime toone 

or two gentlemen. But if the House will extend my time long enough 

I have no objection to the request of the gentleman from South Carolina. 

Mr. TILLMAN. I think the House will be willing to extend the 

gentleman's time. Will not that provision offer a premium for pauperism; or, will it not offer an inducement to the oldier to pe improvident or vicious and to look forward to the pro pect expressed in the 

ong of the English pauper: 

Hang sorrow, and drive away care, The parish is bound to find·me ? 

Will it notal o stimulate soldiers who have but little visible property 

to sell that· property o as to have the evidence of their possessing no 

means of keeping them from being dependent put out of the way? 

That is the unknown quantity, in my judgment, that will make these 

pensions aggregate the sum suggested by the gentleman from Alabama. 

I would thank the gentleman from India.na if he would address himself to that view of the subject; for I assert in all seriousness, not 

only speaking for myself but for my section, that we are willing to vote 

liberal pensions to the widows of the Union soldiers, to their orphans, 

and to every soldier who was disabled in the service; but we are not 

willing to vote for pensions to those men who have been disabled by 

their own immoral act, or who are dependent or may become so when 

the Government shall have offered this premium for improvidence and 

vice or, as I said a moment ago, pauperism. 

· Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. The gentleman from South Carolina 

[Mr. TILLMAN] is always frank and always candid. As regards any 

estimate of the cost of a pension bill there is always an uncertainty 

u.bout it, and accuracy is impossible. 

Mr. TILLMAN. But to grant pensions on the ground of general dependence is a new principle, is it not? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. It is not altogether a new principle. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. It is the law now. Mr. TILLMAN. I suppo e that there may be a few exceptional 

cases in which pensions have been given on the ground of special dependence. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I hope the gentleman from South Carolina will not interrupt me further, and I would like to have my time 

extended, as I have.agreed to give away some portion of it. 

I say briefly it is impossible to state accurately what the cost will be. 

The estimate of the cost I have made is this: Under the provisions of 

the bill as it now is, limiting the age of the Mexican soldier to 62 and 

of the widow to 62, and with the provision contemplated by the bill as 

to dependency, I believe it will co t the first y~r about $4,000,000.-

Bnt after persons have arrived at that age and are in addition to that 

disabled they can not live long, and it will be in the very nature of things 

a very short time until that roll would entirely disappear. After we 

- have reached 62 yE>-ars it is but a srep to the grave. I will not attempt 

to give an estimate·as to the annual per cent. of decrease that would 

occur to the Mexican war soldier roll. It i clear, however, that it will 

soon pass away. Under the limitations of the bill, as ame.nded, the 

Mexican war roll will be neither large nor expensive. 

Now, in the next place, I have estimated the beneficiaries provided 

for by the bill, leaving out the Mexican soldiers, at 210,000-1 think 

a very liberal estimate-and the average pension 100 a year; making 

for the first year 21,000,000, and a total of 25,000,000. 

And I may make the same remark in regard to this list which I made 

a moment ago. This includes the class of old people, that is, the dependent futhers and mothers, who must necessarily be old because the 

Union veterans are now old men and their fathers and mothers are older than they; so that the class of tho e that are dependent must 

necessarily very rapidly disappear from the pension-rolL They can not stay there long. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. I think the gentleman from Indiana has made 

too large an estimate. ·The Commissioner of Pensions has told me 

twice he has made a careful computation in his office of the co t of 

this bill, and he asserts it can not exceed sixteen and a half millions 

all told. · 

Mr. BROWNE, oflndiana. Letitbeso. How much tiwehavelleft? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman has eleven minutes of 

hi time remaining. 

1\Ir. BROWNE oflndiana. Now,Icannottellthenumberoftho e 

who are dependent; but allow me to say, under the liberal provisions 

of the pension laws and their administration by the Pen ion Office a 

large proportion of these are being taken up on the pension-roll under 

the general law, and I do not believe this class will be large or that it 

will add largely to the expenditure. About that, however, I may be 

mistaken. 

In the next place, I do not believe that this will be an inducement to · pauperism; I do not think it. Men generally shrink from pauperiim 

or poverty. I know that human nature is depraved and will r e ort, 

in order to obtain money, very often to measures that are not reputable; but I am not willing to believe that this thing will be done to any 

con iderable extent. I know that the true soldier is incapable of uch 

a thing. My answer to all that is that this submits the conditions, the 

proof1 ,. the practice in the Pen ion Office, the charncter of the evidence 

to b received to the ecretary of the Interior; he provides the rules 

under which the proofs are to be made, and it i very ea y for him to 

require the applicant for the pen ion to show whether or not recently 

before his application he has dispo ed of any part of his mearu ; and the 

Secretary may by rule provide against contingencies of this character 

and confine t.he benefits of this bill to those who are honest claimants. 

No, no! He who wa a true oldier is an honest man, and I do not 

fear that the genero ity of the people will be .imposed on. He who 

does so under the guise of a soldier or of a soldier's dependent relative will receive the contempt, the merited contempt, of every honest 

man and every faithful and patriotic soldier. It is no more possible to 

take ad vantage of these than of other provision in the pension laws. 

And in conclusion permit me to say that, regarding the provisions of 

these amendments as just, I believe they ought to be granted to the 1

Union soldiers of the country. I believe they are entitled to receive 

these benefits. I believe a great and magnanimous people are willing 

to accord these benefits to them. 

1\Iore than that I think that when the nation is strong and vigorou , 

its commercial condition healthy, millions of dollars in its Treasury, 

with a taxing power without limit; when we are tak-ing in from taxes 

upon tobacco and spirits $100,000,000 a year, and when we can add to 

that a tax upon the incomes of the rich if the exigencies of the case require it-while we can pay these just pensions, meet the demands of 

this beneficent mea ure without its being a butden upon our people, 

I do not think we ought to stop and count its cost. The soldier of the 

nation did not stop to count the peril or the sacrifice when the drumbeat and the bugle-blast called him to the battlefield. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I yield to the gentleman from Kentucky. 

Mr. BLACKBURN. I thank the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. 

BROWNE] for his courtesy. In all this discussion I have not said one 

word. I simply desire now to send to the Clerk's desk and have read 

a letter from a constituent of mine upon the Senate amendments to 

this bill. His character will be vouched for by every one who knows 

him and his intelligence is illustrated by his letter. His politics are stated in the letter. He is a consistent Republican, having never 

voted the Democratic ticket in his life. 

1\Ir. BROWNE, of Indiana. That is good. 

Mr. BLACKBURN. This letter expresses my views so clearly and 

so fully, that !will ask-the gentleman togivemethecourte yofhaving 

it printed in the RECORD. 

Severall\IEMBERS. Let it be read. 

1\Ir. BLACKBURN. Very well; I ask to have it read. 

The Clerk read as follows: CYNTHIANA, KY., June 25, 1884. 

Dw Sm: I am one of the surviving oldiers of the 1\Iexican war and aRe- publican at that, but the action of the United State Senate ye terday in its amendment to the House bill granting pensions to the survivors of that war i excedingly displeasing to me and my comrades, and it is to be hoped that the House of Representative will never disgrace itself by concurring in them. If we can not be placed on the pay-rolls upon an equal footing with the men who erved in the war of 1812 we do not crave that di tinction. We brought a world of wealth to our country, and now, after a lap e of more than thirty- even years, if the Congre of the United States is still unwilling to recognize our trials and sufferings in that war, we beg of you and there t.uf the m embers of yonr honorable body to ee that we are not insulted and humiliated by restrictions. · Hoping that the Hou e of Repre entatives will never suffer the bill to pa in 

it pre ent form, I am, dear ir, very truly and incerely, your , 

Ron. J. 0. S. BLACKBURN, 

Washington,D. 0. 

A. WILLIAl\I ON. 

1\fr. BRO\\~, of Indiana. It was unanimously understood that 

becau e of the interruptions while I was speaking I hould have ten 

minutes' additional time. 

Ir. BLACKBURN. That is right. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I have, I think, about-eight minute of 

my own time remaining. 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE~ .6139 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has five minutes of his original 

time. 

Mr. JORDAN. Will the gentleman permit me to ask.him a questiqn? · Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. If it is not to come out of the little time 

.allowed me, and I take itfor granted that it is not, I am entirely willing. 

Mr. JORDAN. I understood the gentleman to say that in order to 

p aythe large amount ofpensionsthatmightbe required bypa" ingthis 

bill he was in favor of having an income tax impo ed in this country. 

I would like to ask him first whether he is in 1avor of uch a tax as that; 

.and, ·econdly, whether in his judgmeut the increase of pensions provided by this bill would require an increase of taxation in this country? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I an wer the fu t question by saying 

unhesitatingly-yes. If my record had been of sufficient consequence 

to have attracted the attention of the gentleman, he would have known 

that I have put myself on record as in favor of that kind of tax when-

-ever the necessities of the Government required it. • 

To the second question, I answer that I do not believe it will be 

necessary to resort to any further taxation beyond that which now exists in order to pa.y this increased pension-roll. 

1\lr. JORDAN. Then you do not believe that there is any nece ity 

for an income-tax now ? 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I have answered my friend's question. 

I now yield three minutes to the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. 

MILLER]. 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. Very early in the first session of 

·the Forty-seventh Congress I took occasion to tate, when a bill was 

under discussion to grant a pension of $50 per month to the widow of 

the late General Alex. Hayes, of Pennsylvania, that while I would not 

vote against any reasonable bill which gave a higher rate of pension 

·than $8 a month to the widows of officers of the Union Army, I thought 

·that the rate of pensions to the widows of private soldiers should be 

largely increased, and that the widow of the private soldier should re-

. ceive as large a pension as the widow of an officer. The Senate amendment to the Mexican pension bill, now under discussion, grants an in-

· Crease from $8 to $12 per montJ!. It is conceded that bill can not nf:tN 

pass this session. Gentlemen on both side have stated to-day that 

-they were willing to vote for a separate proposition increasing the rate 

·to $12 per month. I therefore send to the Clerk's desk and ask to have 

read as part of my remarks such a bill, and I a k unanimous consent 

·that it may be put on its passage: 

The Clerk read as follows : 

.A. bill to increase the rate of pension payable to widows of deceased soldiers 

from to $12 per mpnth. 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of .America in Cong1·ess assembled, That all widows of soldiers and sailors who a :such are now receiving under ex:i t.ing laws, general or special, the sum of per month, by reason of the death of such soldiers and sailors in service or from a disability contracted in the military or naval service of the United States, . and in line of duty, shall from and after this date be entitled to and receive the rate of 12 per month in lieu of said rate of 8 and all such widows who shall 

hereafter be found to be entitled to the rate of per month under existing laws .shall be entitled to and receive the rate of $12 in lieu of said rate of . 

Mt. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. That is the provision of section 9 

-of the Mexican war pension bill as amended by the Senate, and I ask 

unanimous consent that it be now put upon its passage. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the gentleman 

from Pennsylvania [Mr. MILLER] that the bill which has been read by 

the Clerk be now put upon its passage? 

Mr. TURNER, of Kentucky. I ri e to a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. T RNER, of Kentucky. Is it in order to make a request for 

nnanimou consent at this time? 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Indiana [Mr. BROV\'NE] 

_yielded to the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. MILLER]. 

Mr. TURNER, of Kentucky. But is it in order to snbmita request 

for unanimous con ent? 

The SPEAKER. It is in order at any time to make a reque t for 

unanimous con ent. 

Mr. l\fiLLS. I understand the Committee on Invalid Pensions have 

reported the same thing. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. That is all right. 

Mr. TURNER of Kentucky. I call for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is called for, which is equivalent 

to an objection. 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. Do I understand the gentleman 

from Kentucky [Mr. TURNER] to object to passing this bill at this 

time? 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has objected. 

Mr. MILLER, of Penn ylvania. I regret thatanyoneshould make-

-objection to the passage of this proposed bill The subject has been 

.considered by a committee of this House, and a bill similar to tbi bas 

been unanimously rei>orted, but at this late day of the session it is im-

-possible to reach that bill in regular order. All gentlemen upon both -.sides of this House admit that the rate of pension now paid to the widows 

-of private oldiers ought to be increased. Without unanimous consent 

it is utterly impo ible to pass the measure at this time. All admit 

it i just, right, and proper; All admit that unle s uch a measure 

pas es by unanimous consent the widows of the private soldiers mu t 

take the pittance they now receive by law while the widow of officers 

receive the inCJ·eased rate. In behalf of the widows of the privat oldiers who fell in the ervice, or who have ince died of di.sa.bilities contracted in the line of duty, in behalf of those who ha>e no voice in 

making our law , and who must accept what we offer, in behalf of the 

widow~ of the gallant dead, I ask the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. 

Trm ... ·ER] to withdraw his objection. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

l\Ir. TURNER, of Kentucky. Mr. Speaker, I demanded the regular order. 

The PEAKER. That is equivalent to an objection. 

Ur. TURNER, of Kentucky. I did not say I objected to the bill. 

The SPEAKER. But that is the effect of the demand for the regular order. 

Mr. TURNER, of Kentucky. I know that; but I do not want to 

be placed in a false po ition. I expressed no opinion as to the merits 

of the bill. We passed a bill under the two-thirds rule pensioning 

l\Iexican veterans. The Senate loaded it down with amendment and 

virtually killed the bill. The gentleman from Alabama [ Ir. HEWITT] 

has been trying for two days to get con ideration of another bill pensioning Iexican veterans reported from the Committee on Pension . I 

want to see that bill taken up and passed and I do not want it obstructed by propositions of any character offered out of order. That 

is the reason I demand the regular order. I do not want to be misunderstood or placed in a false po ition. When the bill referred to by the 

gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. MILLER] cGmes up in regular order let it take its regular course under the rules. But I am opposed to 

these propositions offered out of order. 

1\Ir. BROWNE, of !Jldiana. I yield two minutes to the gentleman 

from Pennsylvania [Mr. BROWN]. 

Mr. BROWN, of Pennsylv\nia. After the passage of the Mexican 

pension bill through the House I took some pains to investigate the 

amount necessary to pay pensions under that bill. I desire now merely 

to ask permission of the Hou e to insert in the RECORD some statistics 

with reference to that subject, and to enlarge a little upon the effect of 

the Senate amendments. 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection the gentleman will have 

leave to print. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. If the gentleman will di.sclaim any intention 

to make any partisan remarks, I will not object. 

Mr. BROWN, of Pennsylvania. I do that. 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. Then I make no objection . 

Mr. HENLEY. I call attention to the fact that the gentleman from 

Nebraska [Mr. VALENTINE] on the other side of the House has objected to any requests of this sort coming from this side. However, we 

take a Christian's revenge and do not make any objection in this case. 

The SPEAKER. There is no objection, and the leave requested by 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania is granted. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I yield three minutes to the gentleman 

from Maine [Mr. BOUTELLE]. 

Mr. BOUTELLE. Mr. Speaker, I confess to a little surpri e that 

any gentleman in this House should refer to the incorporation of some 

amendments intenaed to ameliorate the condition of the pension laws 

in regard to the Union soldiers and their dependents as necessarily 

" handicapping" a bill in behalf of the veterans of the Mexican war. 

The bill originally passed by this House in regard to soldiers of the 

Mexican war provided for a service pension of $8 per month. The Senate of the United States in everal direction enlarged the operations 

of the bill as affecting Mexican war pensioners, and then at a late tage 

in the session after it bad been demonstrated that the House of Repreentatives was likely to fail to act upon any of the important mea nres 

called for by thousands of the people of this country 1or the liberalization and implification of the pension laws in regard to the oldiers of 

the late war, it ingrafted upon the enlarged Mexican pen ion bill the 

eries of amendments which have come before the Hou e, and Congress 

is asked to enact a measure which provide liberally for soldiers of the 

Mexican war and at the same time does some degree of ju tice to 

several classes of persons entitled to pensions in connection with the 

late civil war. It is no part of my purpose in the three minutes at my command to 

undertake to discuss in detail the merits of the e propositions, but I 

state what will be attested by nearly every gentleman on this floor, 

when I say that no class of legislation which ha claimed the attention 

of Congress at this session ha been urged upon this body with more earnestne , with more generality of intere t on behalf of all classes of 

the people of this country, than these measnres demanding that we !-\hall 

liberalize our pen ion laws in such a way as will enable the Gov1•rnment to discharge some part of its duty to the soldi ers who a re now 

disabled; after having served their country in time of war, to the widows 

of uch soldiers, to their orphan children, and to the aged and devcndent mothers who gave their sons to pe1·ish in defense. of the nation's life. [Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I yield the residue of my timt> to the 

gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Jo EPH D. TAYLOR]. · 
·6140 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

M'r. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. Ur. Speaker, how muc}l is there re- maining of the gentleman's time? 

The SPEAKER. Three minutes. 

Ir. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR. I will a k an extension of three minutes, as I am not in the h..<tbit of ~"ing very much. 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection, the gentleman will be 

allowed to occupy six minutes. 

There was no objection. 

Mr. JOSEPH D. TAYLOR addxessed the Honse. [See Appendix.] 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. As both sides have had equal time, I move we take a recess until half-past 6 p. m. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. The gentleman yields to me to submit a motion. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. Certainly. 

.Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. I move the Committee of the Whole 

Hone on the st.:'tte of the Union be discharged from the further consideration of the bill I send to the Clerk's de k and that it be put on its passage. 

The Clerk read a follows: 

A bill (H. R. 4009) to incr~ase the pen ion of widows and dependent relati~es of 

deceased soldiers and ailors. 

Be it enacted by the Senate and H ouse of Representatives of the United tates of 

.<hnerica in Congress assembled, That from and after the passage of this act the rate of pension for widows, minor chHdren, and dependent relatives now on the pension-roll, or hereafter to be placed on the pension-roll, and entitled to receive a le rate than hereinafter provided, hall be $12 per month; and nothing herein ball be construed to aifectthe exi tingallowance of$2per month for 

each child under the age of 16 years. And all acts or parts of acts inconsist-ent 

with the provisions of this act are hereby repealed. . SEc. 2. That noclaimagentorattorneyshall be recognized in the adjudication of claims under this act, nor shaU any ucb person be entitled to receive any compensation whatever for services or pret-ended services in making applications thereunder. 

Amend the title so a to read: " A bill to increase the pensions of widows, 

minor children, and dependent relatives of decea ed oldiers and sailors." 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? 

Mr. BUCHANAN. Regular order. 

Mr.- BROWNE, of Indiana. I now renew my motion to take a recess until 6.30 o'clock. 

.Mr. WOLFORD. IhopetheHonsewillnottakearecessnow. Some 

of us want to be heard on this bill. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I promised t.o make this motion. 

Many 1.1El\rnERS. Say 7 o'clock. 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. If the Honse desires it I will modify the 

motion for the recess until 7 o'clock. Th~ motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at 5o clock and 50 minutes p.m.) the Honse took a recess until 7 o'clock. 

AFTER THE RECESS. 

The recess having expired, the House (at 7 o~clock p. m.) resumed 

its session. PENSION BILL . 

llr. BAGLEY. bir. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to take from 

the Speaker's table House pension bills with Senate amendments thereto, 

and move concurrence in the amendments of the Senate thereon. This 

will perfect the legislation in reference to about a half dozen of these 

bills. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? 

There was no objection, and it was order_ed accordingly. 

Bills of the following titles were accordingly taken from the Speaker's table, the Senate amendments read, severally considered, and con- curred in: 

A bill (H. R. 1042) for the relief of l\Irs. Sarah Sinfield; 

A bill (H. R. 1897) granting a pension to Catharine Hunter; 

A bill (H. R. 2979) granting a pension to Nancy Ellis; 

A bill (H. R. 4417) granting an increase of pension to Jacob Miller; 

and • A bill (H. R. 6530) to increase the pension to Richard Jobes. 

Mr. BAGLEY moved to reconsider the several votes taken by which 

the Senate amendments were concurred in; and also moved that the 

motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. . 

Mr. HOLMAN. I move that the Honse now take a further recess for fifteen minutes. 

The motion was agreed to; and a~cordingly (at 7 o'clock and 7 minutes p. m.) the Honse took a recess. 

AFTER THE RECESS. 

The recess having expired, the Hon e (at 7 o'clock and 23 minutes 

p. m.) resumed its session. 

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, an- nounced that the Senate had ao-reed to the report of the committee of 

conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the bill (H. 

R. 7235) making appropriations to supply deficiencies in the appropriations for the fiscal year ending J nne 30, 1884, and for prior years, and 

for tho e certified as due by the accounting officers of the Treasury in 

aecordance with ection 4 of the act of June 14, 187 , heretofore. paid 

from permanent appropriations, and for other purpose . 

Also, that the Senate had passed without amendment the bill (H. R. 

58 ) granting a pension to Ellen 0 Brian. · The message also announced that the enate had passed bills of the 

following titles; in which the concturence of the House of Representatives was requested, namely: 

A bill (S. 671) for the relief of Elon A. Uarsh and Minard Lafever; 

and 

A bill (S. 1751) to amend an act entitled ''.An act to provide a building for the u e of the United States circuit and district courts, the postoffice, internal-re\enneoffice, and other Government offices at Erie, Pa., 

and making an additional appropriation therefor." 

EXROLLED BILLS IGYED. 

nlr. G L.ASCOCK, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the committee had examined and found duly enrolled a bill of the following title; when the Speaker igned the same, namely: 

A bill (H. R. 4985) npplemental to and amendatory of an act to incorporate the 1\Intnal Fire In, nrance Company of the District of Co--

lumbia. ORDER OF BU ~E • 

Mr. WELLER. I understand that there are some pension bill that 

have been passed by the enate, which have come to the Hou e and• have been favorably reported by the House committee, and now on the 

Speaker's table. I move that these be taken up by unanimous consent 

and passed. I understand that it can be done in about twenty minutes. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will state to the gentleman that the 

bills to which he refers are in Committee of the Whole Honse on the 

Private Calendar. 

Mr. WELLER. Then I ask unanimous consent to discharge the 

Committee of the Whole Hon e on the Private Calendar from the further consideration of Senate bills granting pen ions. [Cries of' Reg_-

nlar order ! ''] 

DEFICIENCY APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Mr. RANDALL. Mr. Speaker, I desire to make a privileged report. 

I present the report of the conference committee on the general deficiency bill. 

The SPEAKER. The report will be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Hou es on- the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 7235) making appropriations to supply deficiencie in the appropriations t'or the fiscal year ending June 30, 1~ 

and far prior years, and for tho e certified as due by the accounting officer of' 

the Trea UIY in accordance with ection 4 of the a.ct of June 14, 1878, heretofore 

paid from permanent appropriation , and for other purposes, having met, after 

full and free conference have agre-ed to recommend and do recommend to their 

respective Hous-es as follows :' · . That the Senate recede from its amendments numbered 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 22, 39, 47, 

48,and 49. 

That the Hous-e recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate 

numbered 17, 21, 92, and 122, and agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendmentoftbe Senatenumbered ll,and agre-e to the same with n.n amendment as follows: In lieu of' 

the sum proposed in said amendment insert "$80,000; '' and the Senate a.gree to the same. 

That the House recede from itsdisagreementto the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 85, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of' 

the sum propos-ed insert "$70,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 86, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu of" t.Be sum proposed insert "840,000; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen- ate numbered 87, and agree tQ the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu- of the sum propos-ed insert "$301,000 ;" and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disag.reement to the amendment of the Senate· numbered 101, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In lieu. of the sum proposed ins-ert "$5,816," and insert after said amendment, as a new paragraph, the following: 

"For clerks to Senators,$27,666." 

And the enate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate· numbered no, and a~ee to the same with an amendment as follows: Restore- the matt-er to be stricken out by the said amendment, and in line 8 thereof, 

after the word " subject," insert the words "excepting $0,000 thereof; " and the · Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement tQ the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 117, and agree to the same with an amendment as follow : In lieu- of the um proposed in said amendment ins-ert "$87,500; " and the Senate agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate numbered 138, with an amendment as follows: Restore the matter proposed to· be stricken out by said amendment, and in line7thereof, after the word" case," 

insert the words "which case shall be preferred in the order of the 'docket of· said court." SAM. J. RANDALL, 

J.A.l\IES N. BURNES, 

W. H. CALKIN , Managers on the part of the House. 

• EUGEJ\"E HALE, 

W. B. .A.LLI ON, F. M. COCKRELL, 

Managers on th~ part of the en ate. 

The statement accompanying the report was read, as follow : 

The managers on the part of the House of the couf~rence on t~e i a=e eing~ 

vote of the two Houses on the bill (H. R. 7235) making appropriatiOn to sup-· ply deficiencies for the fiscal year 1885, and for other purpo es, submiL the following writt-en statement in explanation thereof: 

The amendments oftheSenate upon which the two Houses disagreed involved. the appropriation of 759,222.54, of which sum it is agreed that the Senate yield• ~.5!?9.63, and that the House agree to ;251,692.91. 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSEG 6141 

The bill as finally agreed upon appropriates $9,996,616.61, being $274,849.96 in .excess of the bill as pa sed in the vous , and $835,461.63 less than as passed the Senate. 

SAl\I. J. RANDALL, · W. H. CALKINS, 

Managers on the part of the House, 

Mr. RANDALL. It is proper I should state to the House seriatim 

the effect of the report of the conference committee. There were in all 

twenty-three points in dispute. The first five related to one subject; 

that is, the paving around the public buildings. From this the Senate ,recede. 

The next relates to the payment of expenses incurred in the fiscal 

year 18 3 in relation to. the employment of certain internal-revenue 

officers who were selected to traverse different States with a view to 

pre>ent any unlawful distillation of spirits from fruit. The amount 

a ked for was $6,758. 31. The House did not appropriate for that purpose. The Senate inserted the appropriation. The Senate recede, and 

the money, therefore, is not appropriated. 

The next is amendment numbered 11, which relates to the salaries 

and expenses of agents aud subordinate officers of internal revenue. 

The House made no provision. The Senate inserted 150,000, based 

upon a communication from the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, 

that owing to certain changes of the internal-revenue law this amount of 

money was nece .•;sary. .. The Senate and the House ha>e come to an 

agreement in relation to the amount by inserting .. 0,000, instead of 

$150, 000 as in the Senate amend nent. 

The next amendment of the Senate as to which there was ilisagreement, numbered 19, related to certain claims on the part of the States 

of California, Oregon, and Nevada. These grew out of the act of 1861 

le...-ying twenty millions of direct taxes on the States. A repayment of 

15 per cent. was provided for in case of prompt payment by the States. 

These three States did not pay quite on time. But there has been allowed to the State of Kansa under the circumstances this 15 per cent.; 

and after a good deal of argument pro and con the conferees on the part 

of the House receded and allowed the amount of money to these three 

States under that clause in the act of1861, believing that, Kansas having 

received payment under like circumstances, it was unjust not to gi>e to 

these three additional States the amount. 

A 1\'IEMBER. How much is that? 

.Mr. RANDALL. The amount is 43,151.1'7. 

The next amendment, numbered 21, was for the payment of a j udgment obtained against William Higby in the State of California. The 

· House recede from disagreement to that amendment. The Senate inserted the appropriation. There was no remedy, as the House conferees 

thought, in relation to that matter. Being a judgment, they had to 

accede, and the House recedes from its disagreement. 

The next is amendment numbered 22, to enable the Secretary of the 

Treasury to reimburse the amount paid for expenses of commission appointed to go to Louisiana in April, 1877,53,950.73. That was indebtedness, as the conferees on the part of the House thought, not authorized 

by law; and the Senate recede. 

The next is amendment numbered 39, which relates to certain claims 

'Under the act to aid in the improvement of the Fox and Wisconsin 

Rivers. This subject is well understood in the House, and I need not 

enlarge particularly upon it. Part of this $10,000 was a claim against 

the company before the United States resumed control of the work. The 

United States originally granted lands in connection with this improvement to promote it. The nited States subsequently resumed ownership and control and has appropriated a large sum of money to that impn..'>ement. Theae claims grew out of and are adjusted under the State 

law of Wisconsin. They are not judgments but claims. The House 

did not originally insert them. The Senate recede from their payment. 

The next amendments are numbered 47, 48, and 49, and relate to the 

payment of certain claims in connection with contracts for the construction of the monitorsr the first one being an amount alleged to be due to 

Harlan & Hollingsworth; the next to William Cramp & Sons, and the 

third to John Roa{!h. The House did not insert these and the conferees 

on the part ofthe House did not think that they could come in here as 

claims. The Senate recede from the payment oftbem. 

The next point of controversy relates to the fees of United States attorneys and United States marshals. The amount asked for by the 

Attorney-General was $9o;ooo. The amount allowed by the House was 

$50,000. The Senate increased that to $90,000, and a compromise has 

been effected by making the amount $70,000. 

The ame has be~n done in relation to the fees of marshals. The 

House inserted $25,000 for that purpose, the Senate increased it to 

75,000, and the amo1mt agreed upon in conference is 40,000. 

The next item of difference was amendment numbered 101, about 

which a great deal of feeling was exhibited in conference. The words 

in erted by the Senate were~ "for miscellaneous items, $33 4 2." A 

part of that was intended, and so stated in conference, to pay the clerks 

of enators who had been employed under the authority of a resolution 

of the Senate which provided for their payment out of the contingent 

fund of the Senate. I need not go over the record of the controversy 

between the two Houses on this subject; it is knovm. to all whom 

l address heTe. · 

The House conferees did not feel dispo ed to accede to the payment 

of these clerks, at least in that way; yet they recognized the fact that 

the clerks had been appointed, had rendered sernce, and were without 

pay. The suggestion was made that that was not a desirable way of 

making proYision for their payment, and the conferees determined to 

separate the amount which was to be paid to the Senators' clerks t'roiQ. 

the rest of the appropriation, and agreed to substitute these items for 

the one inserted by the Senate: 

For miscellaneous items, $'5,816. For clerks to Senators, $27,666. 

The House conferees thought it the more desirable way to ha>e the 

amount of appropriation and the object for which it was intended appear plain and distinct upon the face of the law, so that the Senators 

themselves and that body should take all the responsibility in connection with it. The House conferees were brought to agree to this change 

because they thought the House had made its opposition to this mode 

of employing clerks sufficiently expressive, and because they also realized the fact that it was idle to continue the struggle any longer, for 

the Senate was as determined in this respect as the House possibly could 

be. We have to leave this to others. 

The next point of difference was the Senate amendment numbered 

110. The House inserted an appropriation of$25,000 forthe Agricultural Department for the investigat,ion of infectious and contagious 

diseases of domestic animals. By the passage of an act relating to the 

disease of pleuro-pneumonia that appropriation was made in part unnecessary. Therefore, the amounL of ~25,000 was reduced to $5,000, and 

that latter amount was give11 so that in case of nec~ity there might 

be a sum of money to provide for any danger that mig4t hereafter arise 

in that regard. 

The next poip.t of difference was upon the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 117, which appropriated $175,000 to provide for the payment for land taken for a reservoir under the '' act to increase the water 

supply of the city ofWashington, and for other· purposes_." That 

amount was inserted by the Senate, the estimate having reached that 

body after the passage of the bill by the House, or at least having 

reached the Committee on Appropriations of the House after the bill 

had been reported. The conferees agreed upon the sum of $87,500, 

which was deemed sufficient for the present. 

The next point of difference was Senate amendment numbered 12"2, 

which is known as the provision for a bar against claims presented to 

the auditing officers of the Treasury Department and a restriction as to 

the time of presentation. The original paragraph as inserted by the 

House upon the recommendation of the Committee on Appropriations 

was prepared with the approval and concurrence of the Secretary of 

the Treasury and the officers who have connection with these claims 

in their administration of the affairs of that Department. The Senate 

decided that it was new legislation and were unwilling to have it in this 

bill, because as they alleged they had not had time to sufficiently examine the subject so as to be able to pa.ssanintelligentjudgment upon 

it. I do not understand the Se-nate to be hostile to that provision, but 

they want it to come in, as they allege, in the regular order, outside of 

an appropriation bill. 

The next point of diMgreement involves certain claims of customs 

officers or inspectors, amounting in the aggregate to about 5180,000. 

They are claims made by customs officers for the difference between 

what was allowed to them by the Secretary of the Treasury and what 

the auditing officers of the Treasury Department subsequently decided 

they were entitled to. The House inserted an appropriation for that 

purpose, but accompanied it with a proviso that before any of this money 

should be paid to the claimants there should be a test case in the Court 

of Claims, so that there should be a judicial determination of the subject whether the United States Government was under obligations to 

pay this amount. After a great deal of hesitation the Senate conferees 

agreed to yield this point, provided the decision of that test case by 

the Court of Claims could be expedited. To reach that this language 

is inserted: ''Which case shall be preferred in the order of the docket 

in said court.'' 

That, Mr. Speaker, is a full statement of the work of the committee 

of conference on this bill. And now, unless some one desires to speak 

upon it, I demand the previous question on agreeing to the report of 

the committee of conference. 

Mr. CALKINS. Will the chairman of the committee give me a moment for a brief statement? 

Mr. RANDALL. Certainly. 

l\Ir. CALKINS. I desire to speak for a moment with reference to 

Senate amendments numbered 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9, making ilppropriations 

for paving the streets around public buildings. I want to make the 

statement for the purpose of setting the members of the conference 

committee right. While I belie>ed, and still belie>e, that the Go>ernment of the United States ought to pronde for this paving, while one 

of the other members of the conference committee, the gentleman from 

.Missouri [Mr. Bulli~ES] believes with me on that subject and could 

not and did not yield, I finally yielded my judgment to that of the 

chairman of the committee "ho seemed to feel that the Go>ernment 

of the United States ought not to be charged with this expense ; and 

be and I alone are respon ible for the action of the conference committee in this regard. 
6142 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, 

I make this statement in justice to one of the conferees. I may say 

further that this was the last item of disagreement, and we had to 

yield it in order to reacl1 an agreement upon the bill. I do not wi h 

to speak with reference to any of the other questions. 

Ur. HOLMAN. Mr. Speaker, as will be een, t.he only item about 

wbichtbereis any difference on the partoftbe House conferees is amendment 101 of the Senate, appropriating 27,666 for the pay of clerks of 

Senators during the Ia t fiscal year. To avoid the necessity of bringing 

that subject again to the attention of the House I wish to present the 

question now, inasmuch as the same question is involved in the remaining point of disagreement between the two Houses on the legislative 

executive, and judicial appropriation bill. I take it for granted, Ur. 

Speaker, thatifthe House should concur in this report, including tbi 

item of 27,666, such action ought to be considered a-s instruction to 

.Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider the vote by which the report 

was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

~AVAL APPROPRIATIO:N BILL. 

Mr. RANDALL. I ubmit the following report. 

The Clerk read as follow : 

The committee of conference on the disagreeing vote of the two Houses on the amen~ments of th~ ~nate, except the one numbered 41, to the bill (H. R. 4716) making appropriations for the naval service for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, and for other purposes, having met, after full and free conference have been unable to agree. 

SAM. J . RANDALL, W. S. HOLMAN, 

the conferees on the legislative bill as to the character of the report • W. H. CALKINS, 

Managers on the part of the House. 

that shall be made upon the sa~e subject embraced in that bill. 

In other word , I take it for granted, and I think I express the Tiews 

of my associates on the conference committee upon the legislative, exEUGENE HALE, JOHN A. LOGAN, J AS. B. BECK, 

ecutive, and judicial appropriation bill, that the House would prefer The SPEAKER. 

this appropriation should be definite and specific rather than in the The 

Managers on the part of jhe &nate. 

tatement accompanying the report will be 

form of an appropriation for general contingencies of the enate. The read. 

committee of conference on the legislative bill must report on one of The Clerk read as follow : two forms. Either they must report a disagreement (which would re- The managers on the part of the Hou e of the conference on the disagreeingIt · th H · · th t d t · . tin b >ote of the two Hou es to the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H R 4716) su m e ouse concurrrng In a amen men or lDSlS g upon t e making appropriations for the naval ervice for the fi cal year 1885 ubmit the 

disagreement and asking a further conference) or they must report in following statement in explanation of the conference report: 

favor of concurrence in this amendment, which would imply be an The conferenceco~_ittee being unable_t? agree upon the amendments of the 

appropriation of $44,000 for contingencies of the Senate. ~:Uat; leaves the bill ln the same condition as wh~n last considered by the 

Thus the House will see it is quite important that the question should 

be settled on this bill; for although this sum of '27,666 is for a deficiency for the service of the la-st year, yet if the House should accept 

this as a proper provision on this bill it would scarcely be consistent 

with the duty which one House owes to the other or with the courteous 

relations which should prevail between the two bodies that this House 

should at the same time refu e to make a corresponding appropriation 

for the current year. 

I hope, therefore, in deciding whether this report shall be accepted 

it will be taken {or granted, unless some gentleman objects to orne 

other part of this bill, that the only matter about which there is any 

disagreement on the part of members is as to this item of 27,666. If 

this report should be adopted, the House would seem to instruct the 

committee on the legislative bill to make a report concurring on the 

appropriation of a definite sum for the payment of clerks of Senators. 

lli. McMILLIN. In order to get the exact sen e of the House and 

in order that the instruction if given may be the real sense of the 

House, can we not devise some means-! submit the question to the 

gentleman from Pennsylvania [ fr. RA:t\"DALL] and the gentleman from 

Indiana [l\Ir. HOLliiAN]-to vote upon this question separately? 

Mr. HOLMAN. No, sir; that can not be done. But this is the 

point I was seeking to present: If no gentleman objects to any other 

portion of this report, then as a matter of course this one item, Senate 

amendment 181, is the only matter for con ideration. I believe the 

House unanimously agrees that these other items are properly adjusted 

by the conferees, leaving that one subject only to be acted on if the 

report should not be adopted. 

Mr. RANDALL. I demand the previous question on the adoption 

of the report. · 

Mr. PAYSON. Mr. Speaker, I desire to make a parliamentary inquiry. Is it permissible under the rules to demand a separate vote 

SAl\!. J. RA-r-."DALJ.~, 

Wl\1. S. HOLMAN, W. H. CALKINS 

Managers Oil Ute part of lhe House. 

Mr. RANDA'LL. 1\Ir. Speaker, the real and material points of contro.versy rel~te to wheth.er additional. money hall be appropriated to 

build what IS known as rron-clad morutors, and whether there shall be 

any money appropriated to duplicate what is known as cruisers. The 

Senate conferees were unwilling to recede from the amendments" of the 

Senate in the e particular. The House conferees, or a majority of 

them rather, were equally determined. There was but one way open 

and that was that the appropriations for the upport of the Navy should 

be provided for temporarily. 

After the report is disposed of I will then submit a bill providing 

for the temporary support of the Navy, which I will when it is beforethe House further explain. 

1\Ir. CALKINS. I a k the gentleman to yield to me for ten minutes. [Crie of "Vote."] 

1\Ir. RANDALL. If general discussion is to be had--

l\Ir. CALKINS. I do not wish to enter into any general disco sion• [Cries of" Vote!"]; all I want is ten minutes. 

1\fr. RANDALL. I will yield ten minutes to the gentleman. Does, 

the gentleman wish to speak to this report or to the Navy bill? 

Mr. CALKINS. Yes, I would rather do that if the gentleman will 

permit me. 

lli. RANDALL. Certainly. 

The previous question was ordered; and under the operation thereof 

the report was adopted. 

Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider the vote just taken· and als() 

moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. ' 

The latter motion wa agreed to. 

upon amendment 101? TEMPORARY NAVAL BILL. 

The SPEAKER. The question is upon the adoption of the report Mr. RA.l'IT)ALL. I present the following bill and ask for its con- as an entirety. The propo ition is not divisible. sideration. 

Mr. CANNON. I will say to the gentleman, however, that if the The Clerk read as follows: 

report be not adopted it will go back to conference. 

The SPEAKER. All the amendments embraced in this report 

would go again to the conference committee. 

:Mr. HOLMAN. But with the understanding that there is but one item about which there is any disagreement. 

Several MEMBERS. Oh, no! 

Mr. RANDALL. The simple question is whether we shall continue 

in session or accede to the amendment of the Senate. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 

Mr. BELFORD. I have ri en to one, or tried to do so. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York rose first. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I simply wanted to a k the Speaker 

whether this report is amendable or debatable. 

The SPEAKER. It is debatable unless the previous question, whic:h 

has been demanded, be ordered. But it is not amendable. 

1\Ir. BELFORD. I wish to know whether it is proper to offer an 

amendment to come in at the end of the bill. I send it to the Clerk's 

desk to be read. 

Mr. RANDALL. I have demanded the previous question and this 

debate is not in order. The SPEAKER. It is not subject to amendment even if the previ- ous question bad not been called. 

The previous que tion was ordered; and under the operation thereof 

the report was adopted. [Applause.] 

A bill (H. R. 7509) making temporary provision for the naval service. 

Be it en~. &c., T~at fpr the pur\>ose of providing for the expenses of thenaval.semce for the s1x mont;h enw ng December 31, 1884, tb ere is hereby ap- propnated out of any money m the Treasury not otherwi e appropriated one- half, or 50 per ~J?t., of the !5Um of money and for like purpose , and continuing: the same proVISion_s relating thereto, as were app_ropriated for the purpose of th~ fi~l year ending June_30, 1884, by the act entitled "An act makingappro- pnattOn for the naval service for the fiscal year ending June 30 1884 and for 

other P~J?OS. ," approved .1\~c~ 3,1883, except as hereinafter deciared'. subject to th~ ltmJtahons and conditions m respect to t-he di bursements of the appro- pnat.lons hereby made that were impo ed by said act and the other law of the 

United States upon or in respect to appropriations made by said act: Pro-vided 

That nothing is appropriated by thi act ' 'for special ocean surveys and th~ ~ublication t~ereof," 01;" "for the purchase and manufacture after full investiga- tion and test In the Umted States, under the direction of the Secretary of the 

Navy, of torpedoes adapted to naval warfare or the right to manufacture the 

arne,' and for the fixtures and machinery nece "ary for operating the same. That the clau e under the heading of" Bureau of Yard and Docks" commenc- ing ''For general maintenance of yards and docks" fs amended so as to ap- propriate for the ix months herein provided the sum of 110,000. That under the heading of "Increase of the Navy" in said act in lieu of theparagraphs thereunder preceding the heading of "Naval Acad~my" there i~ sub tituted the following: ' 

For <:ontinuing work upon the three new steel cruisers and one di patch-boat authonzed by act of Congre approved March 3, 1883, a..~ follows: Chicago. $349,133.45; Bo ton, $231,853.28; Atlanta, $231,853.27; Dolphin 108.660 · in an . 21,500; the four pivot guns of the Chicago to be mounted on Clark; d~flective smgle-gun turrets or V shields of the same weight as is now allowed for the 

mounting and armor _protection of the guns: Provided, That it hall not change the contract eutered mto by the Government for the construction ol said ves- sels. 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6143 

For completion of steam machinery and boilers, with nece sary fittings for sea-serviceof teel cruisers and dispatch-boat, under contract with John Roach, a per act approved farch 3, 1883: United State steel cruiser Chicago, "_20,000; 

United States steel cruiser Boston, 155,000; United States ste 1 cruiser Atlanta, 

$155,000: United States dispatch-boat Dolp¥n, $90,000; in a~, $620,000. For COJ:!l· 

pleting equipment, outfit of three new crm ers, and one dtspatch-boat, now !n course of construction, 78,600. Forna,'igation outfit of the four new steel crws- ers, $30,000. For ordnance outfit of the three new teel cruisers and one dispatchboat, $>00,000. · · Nothing herein contained shall be construed as appropriating mon.ey for or authorizing the continuation of work upon the double-turreted momtors 1\lonadnock, Terror, Amphitrite, and Puritan; and any unexpended balance now re- maining of the appropriatbn contained in said act, approved March 3,1883, for engines and machinery for the aid double-turreted monitors, hall be covered into the Trea. ury, except such part thereof as may be required under exist- ing contracts made for the engines and machinery of the three last-named mon- itor . · 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection this will be considered as 

the second reading of the bill. f 

There was no objection, and it was so ordered. 

1\ir. RANDALL. I asli that the bill may be considered in the House 

as in Committee of the Whole; and I now ask the previous question 

upon the bill. 

Mr. REED. I understand the previous question will give fifteen 

minutes on each side. 

The SPEAKER. There will be fifteen minutes on each side after 

the previous question is ordered. 

Mr. RANDALL. I am willing .to divide the time. 

The SPEAKER. If then~ be no objection the request of the gentleman from Pennsylvania that the bill be considered in the House as in 

Committee of the Whole will be considered as agreed to. 

There was no objection.· 

1\Ir. RANDALL. I now demand the previous que tion upon the engro~sment and third reading of the bill. 

The previous question was ordered. 

Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider the vote by which theprevious 

question was ordered; and al o moved thattbe motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Mr. RANDALL. Will the gentleman allow me to go on first? 

1\Ir. CALKINS. I would rather that the gentleman should explain 

the provisions of the bill before I take the floor. 

Mr. RANDALL. This bill provides for carrying O'l the Navy as to 

pay of officers, a to pay of retired officers, as to pay of the petty officers and men, and as to the miscellaneous pay the same as under the 

last <:lau e of the pre ent law, providing only 50 per cent.: however, for 

the six months. The exceptions relate :first to ocean surveys, 10,000; 

and then as to 100,000 which was appropriated in the la t bill in relation to the purchase and te ting of tmpedoes, no part of which, or a 

mall part perhap of which ouly has been expended. Therefore there 

ha not been inserted anything for that purpo e for the coming six 

months. 

Yarrls and docks have been made an exception, becau e there was 

$264,000 appropriated in la t year's bill, 64.000 of which was made immediately available, and 200,000 remain of the appropriation for the 

past fiscal yeacr. It will be seen that the amount of 110,000 given is 

in excess of the amount really asked for the past :fiscal year. 

. The monitors are made an exception. There was 1,000,000 appropriated in the last bill and there is none in this. 

For steel cruisers there was appropriated last year 1,300,000. The 

appropriation to the crui ers for their completion ha been provided for 

in full in this bill, as originally provided in the bill reported from the 

Committee on Appropriations; and the rea on why this bill does notrestrict them to 50 per cent. as in other cases, aggregating in this case 

$2,150,000, is because the entll:e sum it was believed should be made 

available for any portion of these vessels which may be completed 

· within the next six months, and therefore this bill embraces the appropriations in full to complete the cruisers. This bill also contains in 

full 500,000 to be used ior their armament. 

In the aggregate, if in the next six months the amounts shall bear 

the same relation to the support of the Navy as these appropriations 

bear toward the support of the Navy for the first six months of this 

year, the reduction under the appropriation for the now current year 

below the appropriations for the last year will be somewhere in excess of half a million of money. Necessarily the amount of money appropriated for the first six months by reason of these appropriations in full 

~complete and arm the crui ers will be a million over what is the 

al>verage; while the amounts in the next six months will be a million 

. under the average. So that there will naturally be a diffe1·ence when 

we come to make the appropriations for the coming ix months on this 

basis of two millions and more. That is all I have to say. 

Mr. CALKINS. The ex~tct situation of affairs at this juncture is 

this: The House and the Senate are unable to agree on the bill which 

was reported by the Committee on Appropriations of this House making appropriations for the current fiscal year for the Navy, and that 

bill remains in conference under this disagreement just a it was when 

the last report was made. But to supply the money necessary to run the Navy Department until the next session of Congress this bill has 

been introduced. Its provisions have been explained by the chairman 

of the commiLtee. I am free to say myself that under no circumstances 

would I ever be willing to yield as a matter of principle the buildrng 

of the Navy which is provided for in the Senate amendments that are 

now upon the bill. I never could yield them. I would rather sit here 

all summer and run into the next ession than yield to it. But recognizing the fact that some concessions hould be made in order that the 

Hou e may adjourn at an early day, I see no better way than to pass 

the bill which bas been introduced by the chairman of the Committee 

on Appropriations, leaving the original bill in conference to be taken 

up at the as...~mbling of Congress at it next session. 

This is about all I desire to say in reference to the merits of the bilL 

It is about as good a bill under the circumstance a could be intro-

.duced a:nd passed, beca.use it misses all points upon which the difference between the two House seem irreconcilable. Of cour e I may 

say the two points of difference are whh reference to the completion oi 

the four monitors and the building and construction of seven new steel 

cruisers. 

I desire to say one thing further, and then I will yield to the gentleman from ~Iaine [Mr. REED] to complete the discussion on our side. 

In closing my service in this House I am gla{l to say to the members of 

the House and to the country that my last effort here was for the building up of the American Navy· that my last words poken here in discharge of public duty were in favor of making the Navy of the United 

States what every patriotic cit]?en from one end of the country to the 

other de ires. [Applau e.] 

The time will come, and bortly, 1\Ir. Speaker when this House, no. 

matter how it is compo ed or what shad~ of political differences divide 

it, will have a demand made upon it by the people which it can notresist for the building of a navy. This House must yield to their superiors. That time is fast coming. If there is a general sentiment upon 

any subject throughout the country among men of all shades of political opinion it is that this country must have a navy. I have taken 

o ion several times during this ession to point out the specific needsf building up this branch of the ervice, this arm of the nation. I 

shall not repeat again what I have alrea{ly said on former occasions, but 

I take pleasure in saying that before long, I have no doubt, the flag oi 

our country, that bas been pro trated for the last ten years, will again 

float in the breeze of heaven from the mast-head of our ships; that 

our Navy, that has fallen almost into decay, will again be restored, and 

that this nation in the future as in days past will be as proud of the 

Navy of the United States as it was when men bearing the most illustrious names that adorn our history were in command of it. [Ap--

plause.] 

I append the following remarks in answer to the speech made by the 

gentleman from Pennsy 1 vania [Mr. RANDALL] the other day in debate: 

Oppo ition io the building of new cruisers rest ostensibly upon the 

objections raised in certain quarters to details in the plans of thosealready under construction. On the strength of these objections to 

special and minor points it is represented that the vessels now building 

will be total failures; and further, that any vessels hereafter built by the: 

advisory board will be identical with the first, and therefore they, also, 

will be total failure . These two a umptions have been shown again: 

and again to be wholly unwarrantable, but they are repeated andreiterated with as much confidence as if they were new propositions. 

Whatever vessels you build, or wherever you build them, some technical person or persons, some professional man or men under the Navy 

Department must-finally decide as to the details. That the deci<rion 

will be attacked is to be expected. In so complex a matter as the construction of a ship there must needs be a diversity of professional opinion; and if the work of construction is to cease whenever an irresponsible individual raises objections to the details of designs, no ships could.. 

ever be built for the Navy. The attack on the cruisers is based chiefly 

on inferences drawn from the expressions of Ur. Wilson and Mr. Isherwood. The opinions given by these two officers are unofficial and irre--

sponsible, as the advisory board under the law exercise a controlling 

authority over the designs. Possibly this faet may account in part. 

for their present critical attitude. 

Mr. Wilson, as Chief of the Bureau of Construction, and Mr. Isherwood, as a former Chief of the Bureau of Steam Engineering, are not 

perhaps desirous that this or any other advisory board should find its. way smooth, since the existence of such a board serves to diminish the 

almost independent control formerly exercised by these bureaus over· 

the designs of ships and engines. These officers were members of the 

first advisory board, a body composed of some of the most distinguished 

men in the service, ·and their action at that time in dissenting, with 

two others, from the report of the ten members who formed a majorityof the board, went far to render its whole work abortive. 

The views of Chief Con tructor Wilson are fully di cussed in a letter of the Navy Department printed with the documents which werelaid before the Senate Committee on Appropriations, when considering. 

this bill. The Secretary says: 

NAVY DEPARTMENT, Washington, March 5, 1884..· 

* * * * * The statement that 1\Ir. Wilson says that all the cruisers will be a failure., is a . misleading exaggeration. Mr. Wilson's objections to certain points in the steel~ 

cruisers were few and clearly defined. The one now in question was that the Boston and Atlanta ought not to have open forecastles aud poop-decks. Because they have such, he stated before the Senate Committee on Naval Affairs tl at 
6144 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

he thought that while in smooth water tbey would haYe peed, yet in a heavy ea they would be practically failures as sea-going vessels. RS their'speed would 

be lu1ocked down by forcing their bows into the sea, which would also be likely to roll.on board aft as they ascended into it. He did not pretend that the ea- worthmess of the hips would be afl'ected nor their speed in mooth water Ies- - sened, but only that the high speed could not be maintained in rou"'h weather. No such incautious or reckless word as ''failure" was used by 1\lt~ ·wilson on · the 2d of April, 1883, when the design to adopt open forecastles und poop-decks was submitted to him. He only stated that the "alterations made necessary" i~ the plans could not be" recommended ot· indorsed" by his bureau, "as it be- llev~ that very many essential and necessery features and qualities which an • effictent and useful naval vessel of this clas hould have will be su.crificed by it." Th.e changes then, thus mildly dissented from were made upon the recom- me~datton of the BuTeau of Ordnance and of the naval advisory board, in order to gtve a greater range of fire to the two h eavy fore and aft ~uns, and are ex- plained in my tatement to the enate committee, as follows: 

"Complaint ha been made from time to time thatthelineofficersoftheKavy . de ire to have ~ip comfor~able for cru~s.ing. and not fighting hips, and I was very much gratified to recetve a proposition to make these two ships distinctly 

fighting ships; and when I und_erstood the que tion I adopted the recommenda- . tions without the slightest hesitation. The statement of Chief Constructor Wil- son that these ships will be failures because this plan is adopted of an open fore- • castle and open poop is an erroneous statement, which he should not have made 

in my judgment. He qualified his statements, when revising his testimony by saying that they will be faiJ•rre as ea-going vessels. ·whether they can m~ke as much speed wheu they are being driven again t a heavy sea as if they were • differently constructed, I do not undertake to 11ay, but, as has been stated by ~he m~mbers of the board, such is not the object sought in constructing a fight- mg h1p. 

·:Their capaci~y to ride out a gale, _or make way against a head sea, i not the po~nt to be con tdered, and all the ~dvantages of having an occasional wave • strike over the bows when they go mt-o a head sea, and of having the water come down on the poop when they rise from the water, which 1\Ir. Wil on thinks • should have prevented _this _c<;m truction, notwit~standin&" all the sea-going 

members of the board think1.hflerently, are a mere mconvemence which it was inmy)udgment, very wise in these ships to run the risk of, in order to get thi~ · ~fl'ectJ ve. range of fire. ~he sa_fety and seaworthiness of the ships is not affected m the shghtest degree, m my JUdgment, unless you are to a ume that a crui - ing war vessel is to be built for the purpose of driving aero theNorthAtlantic • Ocean as do the great passenger and mail steamer . "TheACTn<G CRAIIUlA..'<. Hasanythingdeveloped in theconstrulltionofthese ve ~I th3:t _in your ju<l:gment impairs their efficiency as general cruising ves- ··sels m add1t1on t-o fightmg vessels? 

"Secretary CHANDLER. Nothing whatever; subjecttothei·emarks I have just 

made. They are not built for North Atlantic passenger steamers. . "The ACTn<G CRAIR:ILU\. Do you believe th~re is anything in their construe- : t10n that makes them partiCularly dangerous ID storms: "Secrel.!!.ry CHANDLER-. Nothing whatever." . . It h?uld be ~rne in _mind that the naval advisory board, consisting of three 

lin.e oftice.rs, wtth Admual Shufel.dt at the head, one naval constructor, one - -cluef engmeer, and two accomphshed naval architects from civil life were unaniJ?ous upon all the J?Oint_s of dilfer~nce with 1\lr. _Wilson; and that by law 

the ships could not be bwlt Without thetr consent, while they could be without ~~-ue~Vith their judgment on every point went my own, so far as it was of any 

1\Ir. Wilson proposed to bore the bott-om of these new teel cruisers full of 

hole , and cover them with four inches of wood and copper sheathing which 

would increase the weight and displacement, subject the steel sides to destruc- > tion by electric action, and require frequent repairs at navy-yards. He desired to fit them with exten ive sail-power, so that they could cruise by wind instead 

of ste~. He prefer~ed open gun-decks to covered gun-decks. He objected to . so placmg the battenes of the Boston and Atlanta as to make them effective war vessels, for fear a. little water would come on board in a. storm at sea. The e four were all his objections. The Department., by the advice of the ad vis- - ory board, wisely overruled him; and he designed the hull of the ships con- ' trary to his own views on these points. · 

CHffiF ENGINEER ISHERWOOD. 

. The weight that may be attached to the opinions of Mr. Isherwood, 

who is extolled by the opponents of this bill as being the most eminent . engineer offieer in the Navy, may be gathered from a slight examination of his career. Mr. Isherwood was appointed Engineer-in-Chiefof 

the Navy in l\larch, 1861, and he was Chief of the Bureau of Steam Engineering from JQ.ly, 1862, to March, 1869. This bureau succeeded in 

expending fro~"'\'>Ctober, 1862, to March, 1869, in a period of six and _a half years, the sum of S37;ooo, 000. During this time some hundred 

pairs of engines of various sizes were constructed, at a cost of 20,000,000. · Of these: only eleven are now in vessels in commission, the Lancaster, 

Pensacola, Hartford, Richmond, Omaha, Lackawanna, Shenandoah · Ossipee, Monocacy, Yantic, and Tallapoosa. ' 

So far as the efficiency of the engines is concerned objectors might desi o--

nate these vessels also as total failures, for none of them have any co~­ • iderable speed. The same may be said of the five engines built during this period which are now in vessels laid up, namely, the Franklin . Benicia, Plymouth, Ticonderoga, and Florida, except in the case of th~ Florida, whose model would have made her a fast ves el with almost . any engines. Two out of the one hundred engines built are now in 

navy-yards. The remaining eighty-two have been sold, with vessels 

?r eparately, as old material, fifteen of them never having been placed m any vessel. 

In this va t accumulation of machinery made by the bureau in six 

. years and a ha.lf were five pairs of ''geared engines,'' constructed upon . a favorite theory of Mr. Isherwood's, according to which the power was 

to be transmitted by means of cog-wheels. This more than doubtful 

experiment, which foreign en~eers have never been induced to repeat, co t the Government three m1ll10ns and a half. Of the five engines o built four have been broken up and sold as old material. Two of them were neTer put into any ,.e el. The only one still in the service, that -of the Florida, cost $795,000, while the present apprai ed value of the 

vessel, engines and all, is only $52,700. 

It is only fair that after uch a statement of his record 1\Ir. I her- , wood' own opinion of his merits should be appended. It is expressed .. with no excess of mode ty, in a letter written by him in June, 1 3 

urging the Pre ident to appoint him Chief of the Bureau of Steam Engineering, although he had little more than a year to erTe in order 

that he might have the increa ed rank and pay which retirement during the term of chief of the bureau brings with it. 

Th~ letter is as follows: 

. 111 EAST THIRTY-SIXTH STREET, NEW YORK June 1 , 1883. · 

Sm: The po it~on of Chief of the Bureau of Steam Engineering in the Kavy 

Department haVIng become vacant on the 15th instant by the placing of it late 

incumbent, Chief Engineer William H. Shock, on the retired-li t I take the lib- erty to lay before you this my application to be Chief Engineer Shock' suc- cessor, with some rea ons for your consideration why I should receive the ap- pointment. 

The. positi'-!n. has no political importance, _it is p_urely professional, and the 

selectiOn f?r ~tIs confined by law to a few chtefengmeers of the Navy. Now, I am by seruority at the head of that corps, being the oldest chief enaineer in the 

Kav_y by commission, and in all military organizations this seniority is rec- ogmzed liS carrying precedence with it, and there is sound reason for such rec- ogn~tion. ~n the pre~nt case it ~ives me no legal claim to the app intment, 

but It ceTtamly forms a moral one m the absence qf better qualification in my competitors . That the longest service, other things equal, should be rewarded with promo- tion. to the highest po iti~n, ~in all similar corps and .organizations con idered to be right and pro~r, formmgm fact a great part of the mducementl:lt-o remain a life 

long in them with devotion to the attainment of professional excellence. The 

propriety of giving the highest position to the oldest member of such organizations as the Engineer Corps of the Navy is so well indo~ ed by the univer al 

practice of all civilized governments that it is certainly unnecessary for me to do more than state it. With regard to my professional fitness for the po ition I a~ obliged t-o say_the ~ollowing facts for myself, and I hope they will be received 

'!lth candor, constdenng they are necessary to the purpose of this comm un ica-

~~rlfi~f~J':are, however, well known throughout the Kavy and admit of ea y 

I have been an engineer during my whole life, was specially educated for it pr~ctically and theoretically, and there is nothing connected with engineering m 1~ broadest sense that I am not able to do, from the mining of the ore to the ma~mg of the metal; from the working of the ladder, including the con truc- tio_n of the special t~ls for ~oing it, to the designing and building any kind of ma- chinery and any kind of rron vessels. In a word, I am master of all the proc- esses from obtaining the metal to ita final combination in the hull and machinery 

of any kind of iron steamships. Mv professional writings, which are voluminous, both in special book and in 

the l?eriodical literature of engineering, have the highest reputation, and are consi~ered a.r;t authority in Europe as well as in the United State . A an engi- neer m the highest sen e of the word, I believe it i conceded that I have no u- perior, and in my own corps most certainly no equal. I was originally appointed Engineer in Chief of the Navy by President Lincoln, and the appointment was one of the first made at the commencement of ~is administrat.ion. At that time the Bureau of Steam Engineering did not ex- ISt. It was created later for me, and I held the position of its chief uninterruptedly to 1869. I have thus, under two titles, performed thedut.ie oftbe office 

for at>?ut eight consecu~ive yearst em!Jracing the e_ntire period of the war. D~nmg that war f designed ana built more marme steam-engines than mo t engmeers ever saw, and every one of them perfectly fulfilled its object. ·In their 

design and C?nstruction I was _pitt~ agains~ the best engineers in the nited 

States, h<?th I~ the N~vy and m pnvate employment, who competed a"'ainst me and mvanably w1thout success. I produced the best and fastest cruiset·s 

and ironclads of their tonnage (the Wamponoag may be taken as a specimen of 

the first and the original Miantonomoh of the last) that have ever teamed in ocean, and in all cases gave satisfaction to my superiors in the Navy Depart-

~:~~;.'hose confidence in me ~engineer and man remained un haken to 

If it be aid that my length of service as chief of bureau should be sufficient I reply tha~ ~in~ re~ired from the bureau, which, if appointed now, 1 shall b~ ~r?m age hm1tatwn m the latter. mont~ of your administration, carries with It mcreased ra~ and correspondmgly mc.reased pay, and I respectfully ubmit I a.n;t mor~ entitled to these as compensatiOn for my greater en·ice than any engmeer m my corps. On the other hand, if the question be viewed wholly in 

the light of the public interests, then only the professional qualification of the p~rs.on will be co~ idered and otJ:ter considerations will have no place in deter- mmmg the selectiOn, and on this ground alone I am willing to rest my can- didacy. 

Within the last few years I have had the advantage of a. long profe sional tour ov~r Europe, and have visited. every workshop and examined every steam hip, merchant or naval, of any Importance there as well a every public 

and private workshop and dock-yard in Western Europe. oli~.m a native of New York city, and am and always have been a citizen 

If appointed now I shall be placed on the retired-list of the Navy by law on the 6t_h day of October, 188t, which will give you the selection of my succe or. Belteving that I have submitted all the material points of theca e, I have the 

honor to be, sir, 

Very respectfully, your obedient servant, B. F. ISHERWOOD, 

Chief .Engineer United Stat-es Navy . 

To His Excellency the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. 

ARE THE MO"YITORS FAILURES? 

Those who oppose the reconstruction of the Navy are in the habit of 

stigmatizing as a total failure every vessel whose construction or com- pletion is advocated by the naval administration. As the cruisers under construction and the cruisers not yet designed are total failures, so the five partly finished monitors come under the same designation. 

The phrase has become a catchword in the mouth of the opposition, 

and the repeated and detailed refutation of all specific objection has no effect in stopping the cry. Boards of officers ha>e again and again 

examined the monitors' and recommended \heir completi8n. The modifications made in the original designs have secured their efficiency in 

all points about which a doubt existed. 

The following statement i found in the document laid before the 

Senate committee in reference to the naval appropriation bill: 

There are only two courses of action now open. If the vessels are inefficient no more money ho.uld e.exp~nded upon the~; they hould be broken up at once a~d the matenal ut.thzed J_D other way ; if, on the other hand, they will be efficient they hould IIDIDedrntely be carried to completion, because there i no question that the country needs and de ire an increase of it mean of coast defen e. 
I 

1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6145 

Three main points are referrP.d to as elements of weakness in monitor : i. Lack of buoyancy; 2. Unseaworthiness; 3. Vulnerability. 

1. LACK OF BUOYA -cv. • As stated in the report of the advisory board for December 15, 1883, given above, a doubt which at one time existed in reference to the buoyancy of the Puritan has been extended in the public mind to th~ other ves els. Apart from the Pu- ritan there has never been any ground for such a doubt; and in the case of the Puritan it has been ascertained that in the calculations embodied in the earlier reports tending to show that the weight exceeded the buoyancy excessive weights were adopted for the turrets. Although the error was subsequently cor- rected, and the fact that the vessel is perfectly buoyant has since been repeatedly confirmed and published through official channels, the assertion tha~ the Puri- tan will not float is still made from timetotime,keepingaliveapopularthough 

.entirely groundless impression. 2. UNSEAWORTHINESS. The monitors now building, while they have been modified in accordance with the discoveries of modern science and the demands of modern warfare, are .similar in their general proportions and distribution of weight. t{) the vessels of the same frame built during the war. Additional safety has been secured by the use of iron hulls, double bottoms, and water-tight subdivisions, while in all .other particulars governing their behavior at sea they are essentially the same. The testimony in regard to the seaworthiness of the earlier vessels is conclu- .sh·e. 

Commodore John Rodgers states: '' The Monadnock behaved so well at sea as to inspire her officers not only with .confidence but with enthusin m at her performance as a sea. boat." Lieut. Commander F. f. Bunce states, in reference to the same vessel, after a .successful passage from Philadelphia to San Francisco: · "This vessel is a most excellent sea boat, and haB received no damage from .any weather we have encountered. At sea she has never needed or received .assistance of any kind whatever from other vessels, and therefore I regard her .or any vessel of her class as thoroughly competent independent cruisers." Commander J. C. Beaumont says of the Miantonomoh : ''She is an excellent sea boat, as safe and more comfortable than any vessel I .ever served in." Commander A.Murray, after a passage across the Atlantic in the Miantonomoh, states: 

"Heavy weather does not appear to materially affect the speed or rolling of the monit{)r, for while the other vessels were lurching about and their prog- ress checked by heavy seas, she went along comparatively undisturbed or un- -checked." Assistant Secretary G. V. Fox, after describing the same voyage, states : "From these fact and the experience we have derived from the use of such 'Ve els during the war, we may safely conclude that the monitor type of iron- .clads is superior to the broad ide, not only for fighting purposes at sea but also for cruising." 

3. VGL~'"ERABILITY. 

The thickness of the armor of the monitors in inches is as follows : 

Name. Turret. Deck. (amidships). 

I

. Side 

ltfiantonomoh .................................... .. 

I yield the balance of ~y time to the gentleman from Maine [Mr. 

REED]. 

Mr. REED. I desire, Mr. Speaker (Mr. Cox, of New York, in the 

chair), to call your particular and personal attention to the observations I am about to make. In the course of debate upon the subject 

of the naval bill the gentleman from New York now occupying the 

chair made some statements which were startling to us on the other 

side. In endeavoring to defend the Democratic party for their refusal 

to a ist in building a navy be furnished the House not only with the 

criticisms of the naval constructor and of the L-tte chief engineer, Mr . Isherwood, but also with some statements purporting to come from the 

Admiral of the Navy. I read from page 5856 of the CONGRESSIONAL 

RECORD, from the speech of the gentleman from New York, made July 

1, which will be found there: 

The Admiral says: "I am nevertheless well satisfied that it would be most unwise to vote $!,000,000 for the construction of seven steel cruisers next year until we have some evi- dence that the Chicago, the Boston, the Atlanta and the Dolphin are of the proper type or types to enable our naval officers •

1 to keep alive the knowledge of war." 

And he asksMeaning the said Admiral _asksAre these the types of ships that are " capable on brief notice of being ex- panded into invincible squadrons?" 

The gentleman from New York proceeded: 

I perceive the emphasis of the recommendation of your great Admiral. I would not go back on that recommendation, nor on the testimony of your skilled and ingenious builders and engineers . 

I will read a. copy of a letter from the Admiral of the Navy, dated 

Washin~n, D. C., July 3, 1884: WASHINGTON, D. C., July 3, 1884. 

SIR: !beg leave t~ acknowledge the receipt of your letter of July 3, and have to say that the only opinion I recollect to have expressed with regard to the steel cruisers were in my last annual report to you and in my evidence before the Senate Naval Committee, which was published, and which I believe you have seen . My opinion expressed in that evidence was that we should not only build the proposed steel cruisers, but as many more as we could get. In looking over my report to you I can see nothing bearing on the quotation you make from the CONGRESSIO~AL RECORD. I made some criticisms on t.he Chicago, Atlanta, and Boston with regard to their want of sail-power and the advisability of building in the future a larger class of vessels. I have not only been in favor of voting four millions for the construction of seven steel cruisers next year, but went rather farther in that direction perhaps than prudence would dictate. 

1f&FJ!fi~~:::::-:-::-:-::::::·:·:·:·.·::::::::::::::::::::::: } 

1H 

nt 

15 

1 7 I am quite satisfied that I have had no correspondence with any one on this 7 subject. As I have no copies of letters bearing on this matter I am unable to fur- nish you with any. 1 

Puritan ............................................... . 3and 2 12 I think you will find on examination that the quotation is not a literal one 

In the first four monitors the thickne s of the turret armor is sufficient to pro- -tect the battery of the vessel effectually from the attack of the great majority of naval guns in present use. The only question that can arise is a» to the side armor. It is true that at point-blank range a projectile from a modern 8-inch {9-ton) gun will penetrate seven inche of iron armor, but the steel or steel-faced armor .of these vessels represents a capacity for resistance equal to 25 per cent. more, or St inches' thickness of iron armor. Only the larger guns can be successfully .directed against such armor. Moreover it is one of the peculiar advantages of the monitor type of vessel that the exposed side rise only 30 inches above water, and in coast and harbor .operations the light draught of the monitors enables them to choose a position where a larger vessel could not easily approach them. Under the existing lim- itations upon accuracy of fire with rifled guns a target composed of a horizontal band 30 inches wide, at a di tance of from half a mile to a mile, is well-nigh im- possible to hit. It can not therefore be denied that the four lighter monitor , with their powerfullO-inch guns, will be of material service for the purpose for which they are intended, namely, the defense of our harbors. The remaining monitor, the Puritan, with 12 inches of side armor and 15 inches .on the turrets, is a vessel of unquestipned power, and would be a formidable an- tagonist to any of the large armored vessels of the same cla s in foreign navies. It has ever been claimed for the monitors that they were invulnerable, or even ~hat they would be a match for the enormous iron-clad battle-ships of Europe, such as the Inflexible and Duilio. It would doubtless be a more complete pro- tection to have a vessel like the Inflexible stationed near each of the great com- mercial harbors, but the expenditure necessary for this object would be two and ·<me-half times as great as the total cost of the monitors when completed, as will be seen from the following statement of the actual co t of the two types of vessels: INFLEXIBLE. 

f~~~~~~i:::::::.:.:.:::::::::.::::::::.::::.:~::::·:·:·::·:·:·:·:::':':':':':":'::::::::::::·::·:·:·::·:·:·:·:·::·:·:·:·:·:~~·:·::::: $J,~:! ~ Total:....................................................................................... 3, 948,677 10 

MONITOR. 

~~~~~:!.~~.~~~~.~.~.~~~~~.~::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 5'7,~:~ &1 

~~r=~~~~:~fo;::~~i~~::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: f;~~;~:: Even if the theory upon which much of the opposition to the monitors is based, that large ironclads and heavy armor are indispensable, were correct, the fact would still remain that a considerable amount ha already been laid out upon the monitors, and the real question is whether it is worth while to throw away .all the benefits of this outlay only because a much greater outlay would ha.ve given a better result. The highest professional opinion has pronounced offi- cially in favor of their completion and has declared that their total cost will be in no way exorbitant when compared with the results obtained. Common pru- -dence demands that we should take immediate steps to remedy the defenseless condition of our coasts and harbors, and the most rapid and economical meas- ure that can be recommended at the present time is to push the partly con- :Strunted monitors to completion. 

XV-385 

from my report or from my evidence, and I feel sure I have said nothing of the kind in conversation. · Possibly Mr. Cox has been misquoted, or this may be a quotation from some other person's communication to him. I have the honor to be, very respectfully, your obedient servant, 

-Hon. WILLIAM E. CHANDLER. DAVID D. PORTER, Admiral. 

Secretary of the Na'V'IJ . 

Of course I had a very natural curiosity to know what distinguished 

admiral had been confounded with the Admiral of the·Navy, and set 

myself to search. And one of the first things that I met was a commendation with the usual modesty of the gentleman from New York 

directed to his own speech printed that identical day, July 1, which 

he says WlU! "printed carefully;" and the House, knowing his habit, 

would have no doubt of that being the faet. And if my friend Governor LONG will kindly look at the passage there [indicating] in the 

speech of the gentleman from New York printed July 1, page 5 09 of 

RECORD, and note the quotations and compare it with what I will 

read, he will see where this matter came from. 

I am nevertheless well satisfied- · 

The "I " jn that case was the gentleman from New York; the "I " 

in the other case w~ t~e Admiral of the Navy-

! am nevertheless well satisfied that it would be most unwise to vote $4,000,000 for the construction of seven steel cruisers next year, until we have some evi- dence that the Chicago, the Bo ton, the Atlanta, and the Dolphin are of the proper type or types to enable our naval officers" to keep alive the knowledge of war." 

And then the gentleman asks: 

A.re these the types of ships that are "capable on brief notice of being ex- panded into invincible squadrons?" 

Is it there? [To Mr. LONG. J 

Mr. LONG. Yes. 

1\Ir. REED. My friend informs me that it is an exact copy. Now, 

I do not remember but one historical parallel to this. George IV, an accomplished gentleman-and there the parallel is perfect with my 

friend from New York-a man who had been busy about great affairsand the parallel continues [laughter ]-had become so interested in 

tho e great affairs that he actually labored under the hallucination that 

he was present at the battle of Waterloo [laughter], and he insisted upon 

the Duke of Wellington indorsing his statement. Now, the gentleman from New York [Mr. Cox] ba been at the 

bead of the Committee on Naval Affairs. While he is ometimes subject to these hallucinations, as, for instance, when be was led to make a tariff speech at a time when the subject was not. under consideration, 

1 
6146 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5~ 

he has evidently so devoted his mind to the subject of the Navy, has 

evidently become so fired with enthusiasm upon the subject, bas so 

absorbed himself- in it, that he has forgotten his own personality-a 

great matter [laughter ]-and for the moment has imagined himself 

to be the lord high admiral of the American Navy. [Great laughter.] 

I do not know, Mr. Speaker, that I can add anything to this. [Renewed laughter.] I will reserve the remainder of my time. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman has three minutes of his time remaining. 

Mr. CALKINS. I desire to ask leave to extend my remarks upon 

this subject. I will say that there will be nothing in them personal 

to any member of the House; they will be in reference to ~Ir. Isherwood. 

There was no objection, and leave was granted a-ccordingly. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Pennsylvania has six minutes of his time remaining. 

:Mr. RANDALL. I yield to the gentleman from New York [Mr. 

Cox]. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I desire to say in the first place that if 

ignorance and impudence would ma.ke a statesman the gentleman from 

Maine [1\Ir. REED] would make a Bismarck. [Laughter.] I do not 

know what I have done to call forth this remarkable pasquinade upon 

me. I have said nothing except what I have quoted from the public 

records. If Admiral Porter has made any other statement than those 

which the public reports contain, I do not know it. 

I am straightforward in my work here. I found that record and I 

made use of it. I was placed on the Committee on Naval Affairs without my knowledge and without being competent. And then this great 

big magnificent man from Maine twits me with my ignorance, while I 

am all the time trying to study more than he knows. [Laughter.] 

I have made this statement about these cruisers, so and so, and I 

have proved it by Admiral Porter and by all who care to have any 

knowledge or experience on this matter of building ships. . And now 

at the last moment of this session my mild friend from Indiana (Mr. 

CALKINS], the candidate for governor of that State, yields to this man 

from Maine, with his gall-bladder all reeking with meanness toward the 

Democratic party, to atta-ck a small man in ~he House at this lateho~ 

of the session. [Great applause on the Democratic side.] 

Now, I like to be good on Sunday, but who is there in all the United 

States of America or the everlasting universe that could be good on 

Sunday with the provocation of so mean a man as that? [Renewed 

laughter.] 

Mr. REED. The gentleman from New York [Mr. Cox] has made 

a characteristic speech, in which he has avoided the facts which I stated. 

The charge which I have made is that he has put into the mouth of the 

Admiral of the Navy what the Admiral of the Navy did not say. And 

I have proved it over the signature of the Admiral, and I have proved 

that the gentleman from New York made the statement ip issi1nis 

verbis-if he can understand that much Latin applied to himself. 

(Laughter.] And he retorts with gross personal allusions. Well, 

what can you expect? The source warranted it; his course of life 

would lead us to expe-ct it, and I purpose to pay no attention to that 

portion of it. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I have lived an honest man; you are not 

as honest a man as I am. 

Mr. REED. I admit--

Mr. COX, of New York. You ran the railroad business; I never did. 

[Applause On the Democratic side.] ~ 

Ur. REED. No; and the gentleman from NewYorknever ran anything that required a head. (Laughter and applause on the Republican side.] The gentleman from New York pleads his size. I admit 

the insignificance of it. If he pleads littleness in every other respect 

I will admit it. [Laughter.] 

Now, here is the plain charge-and.it is repeated in Democratic newspapers-that the Admiral of the Navy has made certain statements, and 

his words purport to be given. I have proved that be never said it, 

and I have proved that the gentleman from New York himself said it. 

He quotes himself, causing his statement to be promulgated over this 

oountry as a statement of the Admiral of the Navy. And yon have 

heard his reply. 

Mr. COX, of New York. That j..s not true. 

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Uaine has expired. 

Mr. COX, of New York. His time ought to h ave expired long ago. 

This is a poor, pitiable apology. 

Ir. RANDALL. Mr. Speaker, it is not my wish at this time to indulge in any sentimental politics. On the contrary, I prefer not to do 

so, not.to do anything that may disturb the harmony of our relations 

just at this time, when we are about to separate to be judged of as to 

what we have here done by our own immediate constituencies. It is 

proper, however, that I should say this much: that the appropriations for the Navy propo ed in this bill bear an average r elation to the appropriations for these objects which have been made for the past ten 

years. 

No matter how much men may seek to play the demagogue, there is 

not, I feel certain, within these walls any man who is unfriendly to 

the .American Navy. That Navy is manned by officers and men equal 

in skill, courage, and endurance to any navy in the world. But I 

must say that tor the past ten years the great enemy of the American 

Navy has not been foreign navies or their threatened purposes, but the 

real enemy of the American navy has been its ci vii administrators during that period. [Applause on the Democratic side.] And we stand 

here to-night with a purpose in the future, as we have tried to do in 

the past, to reform all the abuses of the civil administration to which 

I have referred. And I am not going to allow gentlemen on the other 

side to criticise our a-cti<JD. in connection with the Navy of the United 

States without reminding them of the derelictions of duty of their own 

party officials in the past in these particulars. 

It was my purpo e to-night to present a summary of the appropriations, to give the fa-cts and figures of our action here during the present 

session of Congress in connection with the amounts of money we havevoted to carry on the Government.. But I am not able to do so, for the 

bills are not yet passed. I shall, however, claimtheiudulgence Ofthe 

Honse to insert in my remarks, when I have the power to do so, these 

figures, giving the assurance that I shall insert nothing but what is 

directly connected therewith. When that shall have been done, the 

House and the country will find that the majority in this House have 

exerciesd a wise apd discriminating economy which can not fail to receive the commendation of every fair-minded man in the United States 

who has the intellect to understand the faets. 

rr:he SPEAKE~ The time for debate on this question under the 

rules has expired. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I ask consent to print in Connection with this bill some remarks and statistics. 

· The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York asks leave to print 

in the RECORD some remarks concerning general appropriations. The 

Chair hears no objection. 

Mr. CANNON. I desire similar leave. 

The SPEAKER. Ifthere be no objection leave will be granted. 

There was no objection. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I desire, with the consent of my friend 

from Pemisylvania, to ask leave to print in the RECORD the statement 

of Admiral Porter on this matter, so as to confute the statement made 

by the man from Uaine. 

Mr. REED. I can not agree to that. I gave the gentleman notice 

that I intended to bring this question up, and I gave him an opportunity to be prepared to support his statement. 

Mr. RANDALL. I thought I had settled all that. 

The SPEAKER. Objection is made to the request of the gentleman 

from New York [Mr. Cox]. 

• Mr. COX, of New York. The gentleman never gave me notice. I 

shall print in the RECORD, unless there be objection, the document I 

have mentioned. , 

Mr. REED. If I can be allowed one minute. 

Mr. COX, ofNewYork. I can not be allowed a minute. [Cries of 

'' Regular order ! ''] 

The SPEAKER. Objection is made. 

Mr. COX, of New York. Every word I have said can be printed. 

Mr. REED. I withdraw my objection. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I ask to print the report of Admiral Porter, so as to confute the gentleman and prove every word I said to be 

true. 

Mr. REED. I give him leave. 

Mr. COX, of New York. I do not ask you. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection by any gentleman? 

~Ir. COX, of New York. As the Chair asks any gentleman, of course-

! object. 

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from New York ask leave to 

print the report? 

Mr. COX, of New York. I did; but the gentleman from Maine objected. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair hears no objection, and leave is granted 

accordingly. 

Mr. COX, ofNewYork. Iwill place in juxtaposition extracts from 

my speech, in which I quoted from Admiral Porter, and the corresponding passages in the Admiral's report to the Secretary: of theN avy. The e 

will show that I have followed the text of the report. The language 

referred to by the gentleman [Mr. REED] was my own-he must have 

known it was my own-and which I inadvertently credited to Admiral 

Porter. 

The following is the language I 

attributed to Admiral Porter in my 

speech of June 30 last, as published 

in the RECORD on the pages indicated below: 

The Admiral holds the opinion that an effective cruiser "should not only be fitted with a full area. of quare sail , but she should have all the usual jibs and try-sails, and have light stays be- tween all the masts where the latter could be et,' in addition to full steam- power. (Page,389.)-Record, page5809, second column.. 

The following is the language 

u ed by Admiral Porter in his report to the Secretary of the Navy, 

made part of the latter report. The 

pages referred to are tho e of the 

last annual report of the Secretary 

of the Navy: 

A. ship of war for cruising, then, should not only be fitted with a full area of square sails, but she should have all the usual jibs and try-sail , and have light stays between all the masts where the latter could be set.- Report of Secretary of the Navy, 389. • 
1884. 

Under date of Xovember 19, 1883, Admiral Porter made a. report to the Secretary oftheNavy, in which he calls the attention of the Secretary to the fact that" incase we should have a. war with any foreign nation all ports will be clo ed again t our cruisers so far as obtaining coal or munitions of war is concerned. Our vessels," he says, "after consuming their coal must either lie idly by until a supply is sent from home or make an effort to reach the United States under sail, with per- haps fuel enough to run a blockade at the end"of their cruise. Without full sail power," sa.ystheAdmiral, "a. ship of war"--cruiser-" would make but slow progress under these circum- stances." (See last annual report of the Secretary of the Navy, volume 1, page 390.)-.Recard, page 5809, first column. 

He does not agree with the advisory board or the Secretary in respect to the speed of the Atlantic merchant s~amers or that propo ed for our crmsers. He' says that" a large portion of the ocean commerce is now carried on by swift steamships, many of which aver- age fifteen·knots across the Atlantic;" and that " in time of war the greater 

part of the enemy's commerce would be carried in such ve els." "Now and then," he says, "a comparatively slow steamer might fall a. prey to our cruisers, but this would not often happen."-Reco,·d, page 5809, second column. Admiral Porter tells the Secretary that " nearly all the European steam- ship lines, Messageries, Peninsular, and Oriental, &c., are composed of large and fast vessels, capable of over- coming the resistance of the heaviest seas, which would swamp a vessel of small dimensions attempting to force her way in chase."-.Recard, page 5809, second column. The Admiral regards it as absurd to apprehend a war between England and the United States, "since their in- terests are so mixed up .in commercial enterprises." But in the event of such a war he says that "most of the fast steamships of Great Britain would be withdrawn fromcommerceand armed with heavy batteries." He says "the ocean would swarm with these con- verted merchant steamers, and they would effectually control it." Why does the Admiral make this stat-ement? Because he does not regard the pro- po ed steel cruisers-those being built and those propo ed-as effective cruis- ers. " In case of such a war," he a ks, ' 1 bow long would it take for a steam- ship like the Oregon or the Alaska [English merchant steamers] to over- haul and capture small 1 commerce de- stroyers? ' "-Record, page 9809, second column. 

The coal capacity of such steamers would be, as the Admiral says, " tre- mendous." 1

' They would carry six month ' provisions, and their com- manders might laugh at Atlantic seas."-Record, page 5809, second column. 

"Take the Chicago, for example," says Admiral Porter. "It is said she will have only 14,000 square feet of can- vas in her principal sails. Any seaman knows that so small an amount of can- vas can only be considered 1 auxiliary,' and would only propel the ves el through the water in a. very fresh breeze." "With the very peculiar rig of the Chicago, without bowsprit and jibs projecting beyond thetbow, no ves- sel would work under ail in smooth water, much lessinaheavysea." -Rec- o,·d, page 5809, second column. "I am not," says Admiral Porter, '

1 an ad vocate for extreme , but am cer- tain that no ship will be a first-class cruiser unless she has sail enough to send her thirteen knots through the water off the wind and ten knots by the wind. That i the speed of our old first-class frigates and ships of the line with their full bows. The finer lines of to-day ought to do better. " -Record, page 6564, second column. He considers that modern cruisers, "with the enormous weight of boilers and machinery carried low down," have " a stability not posses ed by the old-fashionedsailingshipsofwar," and that "they could carry top-gallant sails when the latter would have to take a. reefin the top a.ils."-Record,page5810, fu·st column. · 

CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6147 

In case we hould have a war with any foreign nntion all ports will be closed against our cruisers so far as obtaining coal or munitions of war is concerned, and our ves els after con- suming their coal must either lie idly 

by until a supply is sent from home or make an effort to reach the Unit-ed States under sail, with perhaps fuel enough on hand to run a blockade at the end of their cruise. Without full sail power a ship of war would make but slow progress under these circum- stances.-Report of Secretary of tlu: Naey, 390. 

A large portion of the ocean com- merce is now carried on by swift steam- ships, many of which average their fif- teen knots across the Atlantic, and in time of war the greater part of an en- emy's commerce would be carried in such veSsels. Now and then a compar- atively slow steamer might fall a prey to our cruisers, but this would not often happen.-Report of Secretary of the Naey, page 390. 

Nearly all the European steamship 

lines, Messageries, Peninsular, and Oriental, &c., are composed of large and fast vessels, capable of overcoming the resistance of the heaviest seasi which would swamp aves el of smal dimensions attempting to. force her way in chase.-.Report of Secretary of 

tlu:Nacy. 

It may seem absurd to apprehend a war between England and tlie United States[ since their in tere ts are so mixed up in commercial enterprises, but should such a calamity occur, most of the fast st-eamships of Great Britain would be withdrawn from commerce and armed with heavy batt-eries]. In such a case how long would it take for a steamship like the Oregon or the Alaska to-overhaul and capture small "commerce-destroyers?" The ocean would swarm with these converted merchant steamers, and they would effectually control it.-.Repart of Secrer 

tary of the Navy, 390,391. 

Their coal capacity would be tre- mendous; they could carry six months' provisions, and their commanders laugh at Atlantic seas.-Report of Sec- retary of Nacy, 392. 

Take the Chicago for example. It is said she will have only 14,000 square feet of canvas in her principal sails. Any seaman knows that so small an amount of canvas can only be consid- ered" auxiliary," and would only pro- pel the ves el through the water in a very fresh breez-e. With the very pecul- iar rig of the Chicago, without bowsprit and jibs projecting beyond the bow, no vessel would work under sail in smooth water, much less in a heavy sea.-Re- port Secretary Navy, 3&S. 

I am not an advocate for extremes, but am certain that no ship will be a. first-class cruiser unless she has sail enough to send h-er thirteen knots through the water off the wind and ten knots by the wind. That is about the speed of our old first-class frigates and ships of the line with their full bows. The finer lines of to-day ought to do better.-Report Secretary of Navy, 389. It may be said that the comparatively narrow beam of modern ships is op- posed to their carrying sail according to the ordinary rule, but the great 

length of these ve sels, with the enor- mous weights of boilers and machinery carried low down, gives them a tabil- ity not po e sed by the old-fashioned sailing ships of war, o.nd they could carry top-gallant sails when the latter would have to take a reef in the topsails.-Report of Secretary of the Navy, page 389. 

"I will," he says, "suppose a case of two ships of wa.r meeting at sea, of equal size and weight of metal. The machinery of both ves els may be in- jured, and both may have to depend on their sails. The one that is the best rigged and with the position of the center ofeffortofthe sailssofixed that the steamer will work as well a.s the old-fashioned sailing ships (which can be accompli bed) will sail around the other ve sel and compel her to surren- der." We are told by the Admiral that the desired result "can be accom- plished."-Record, page 5810, first column. 

"It may be argued," says A.dmiral Porter, •· that the proposed ships will not be required to maneuver, and that they will always work in important cases under steam." This argument might apply to heavy ironclads, b11t certainly not to cruisers. In respect to the latter he well says that " it is neces- sary to guard against every contin- gency," and that" even in time of peace every effort should be made to econo- mize coal, the careless expenditure of which eats up the public treasure." "What a. steamship consumes in coal would in a. few years buy a. new ves- sel." The Brooklyn is a. very much smaller ship than the Chicago, yet this old-fashioned vessel can spread 8,000 square feet of canvas more than is in- tended for the Chicago.-Record, page 5810, first column. When England a.nd France assumed 8. hostile attitude to the United States during the late civil war Congress 

appropriated money for 65,890 tons of fast steamers, "real commerce-destroy- ers "-(I still quote from Admiral Por- ter's report to the Secretary) -"all larger than the proposed Boston class, and eleven of them as large or larger than the proposed Chicago.''-Record, page 5810, first column. " Had these vessels been built of iron" (a.s they ought to have been), says the Admiral, '' we might not at this day have been complaining of a de- cayed navy, since, if properly taken care of, they must still be serviceable." How many millions has Congress ap- propriated to maintain a navy since that time?-.Record, page 5810, first col- umn. 

I will suppose a. case of two ships of war meeting at sea, of equal size and weight of metal. The machinery of both vessels may be injured, and both may have to depend on their sails. The one that is the best rigged and with the position of the center of effort of the sails so fixed that the steamer will work as well as the old-fashioned sail- ing ships, which can be accomplished, will sail around the other vessel and compel her to surrender.-.Report Sec--

retary Na'Vy, page 389. 

It may be argued that the proposed 

ships will not be required to maneuver, and that they will always work in im- portant cases under steam; but in war 1t is necessary to guard against every contingency, and even in timeo£peace every effort should be made to econo- mize coal, the careless expenditure of which eats up the public treasure. What a steamship consumes in coal would in a few years buy a. new ves- sel-Report of Secretary of the Naey, 388 and 389. 

Now, here is a case where Congress 

appropriated money for 65,890 tons of fast steamers, real com.merce destroy- ers, all larger than the proposed Boston class, and eleven of them as large or larger than the proposed Chicago. I hardly think the foreign governments referred to would have been impressed with such vessels as the proposed Dol- phin class.-.Report Secretary Navy,391. 

Had these vessels been built of iron we might not at this day be complaining of a decayed navy, since, if prop- erly taken care of, they must still be serviceable.-Report of Secretary of the 

Naey, page 391. 

On the 2d of July, I was reported (on page 5856 of the RECORD, which 

contains the proceedings of the 1st of July) as follows: "I said very 

feebly yesterday what I say to-day more vigorously, that I would rather 

have one good large iron-clad steamer at a cost of $4,000,000 than your 

whole fleet of forty-million-dollar cruisers. These cruisers can not 

fight the present iron-clau vessels of the world. To make these vessels, 

according to .Admiral Porter, able to compete with the vessels of the 

world-this is the crucial test of a navy worth having-the Admiral 

says: 

· I am nevertheless well satisfied that it would be most unwise to vote $4,000,00Q for the construction of seven steel cruisers next year until we have some evi- dence that the Chicago, the Boston, the Atlanta1 and the Dolphin are of the proper type or types to enable our naval officers ' to keep alive the knowledge of war." 

.And he a ks: 

Are these the types of ships that are "capable on brief notice of being ex- panded into invincible squamous?" . 

I perceive the emphasis of the recommendation ofyour great .Admiral. 

I would not go back on that recommendation, nor on the testimony of 

your skilled and ingenious builders and engineers. I would not in a time when this armament is growing. 

The language here attributed to .Admiral Porter I took in the hurry 

of debate from page 5809 of the RECORD. They were my own words, as any one :nllght have seen from the RECORD by the following language then used: NON-COMBATANT SQUADRONS. 

Now, while I have not sufficient naval knowledge to say that we should not direct our attention mainly to providing a. navy of steel cruisers for the pleasure and accommodation of our officers before we embark to any considerable ex· tent in the building of fighting ships, I am nevertheless well satisfied that it would be most unwise to vote $4,000,000 for the construction of !'even steel cruisers next year until we have somefevidence that the Chicago, the Boston, the Atlanta, and the Dolphin are of the proper type or types to enable our naval officers "to keep alive the knowledge of war." Are these the.types of ships that are" capable on brief notice of being expanded into invincible squadrons?" 

This language had relation to my comments upon the report of the 

Secretary of the Navy and the action of the advisory board, as any 

one would ee who will r&'l.d the foregoing part of my speech. On the 

hasty glance I cast on it I did not observe that the quotation marks 

did not refer to .Admiral Porter. They referred to the Secretary's language. The above extracts from the r~rt of Admiral Porter to the 

Secretary of the Navy abundantly support the position I took against 

the addition of new cruisers to our fleet. No one can read .Admiral 

Porter's report without seeing that he takes substantially the same grounds that I took against them. 
6148 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Mr. REED. I desire leave to reply. 

1\lr. RANDALL. That will be lost on the House. 

Mr. REED. What I have said has not been lost. 

The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time; and being 

engrossed, it wa accordingly read the third time, and passed. 

Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was 

pa ed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the 

table. 

'.fhe latter motion was agreed to. 

APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE. 

1r. RANDALL, by unanimous consent, submitted the following resolution: 

Resolved, That the Committee on Appropriations, or such subcommittee as they may designate, are hereby authorize4 to sit during the vacation, for the purpose of considering and facilitating the business of the committee in ad- vance of the next regular session, to be convened at such time as the chairman 

of said Committee may order. 

1\Ir. RANDALL.' It is the usual resolution adopted at a long session, 

so as to enable the Committee on Appropriations to assemble and transact business prior to the meeting of the second session, in orderto have 

the bills prepared in some degree in advance. 

Mr. KASSON. Do not the rules provide for the meeting of the Committee on Appropriations? · 

The SPEAKER. Not that I know of. 

Mr. KASSON. I thought there was such a provision 1or the meeting 

of the Committee on Appropriations in advance. 

The SPEAKER. There is not. 

The resolution was adopted. 

Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid 

.on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

EXCUSED FROM COMMITTEE SERVICE. 

Mr. CALKINS. I ask by unanimous consent that I be excused from 

further service on the Committee on Appropriations; and I do this now 

so that the Speaker may appoint my successor. There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. 

LEGISLATIVE, ETC., APPROPRIATION BILL. 

1\Ir. HOLMAN. I submit the following privileged report. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The committee of conference. on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate numbered 21, 24, and 25 to the 'bill (H. R. 7069} 

"making appropriations for the legislative, executive, and judicial expenses of 

the Government for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, and for other purpose , " having met, after full and free conference have agreed to recommend and do 

recommend to their respective Houses as follows: 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Senate 

numbered 24 and 25, and agree to the same. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Sen- ate numbered 21, and agree to the same with amendments as follows: In lieu 

of "thirty-four" insert "ten," and after the word "dollars," in t~e amended 

clau e, insert "for clerks to Senators, $24,000;" and the Senate agree to the same. WM. S. HOLMAN, 

JOHN .HANCOCK, J. G. CANNON, 

Managers on t.he part of the House. 

W. B. ALLISON, P. B. PLUMB, F. l\1. COCKRELL, 

Managers on the part of the &nate. 

The SPEAKER. The statement accompanying the report will now 

be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The managers on the part of the House of the conference on the disagreein~ 

votes of the two Houses to the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 7069) 

making appropriations for the legislative, executive, and judicial expenses of 

the Government for the fiscal year 1885 submit the following statement in ex- planation of the conference report: It is recommended that the House recede from its disagreement to the amend- ments of the Senate, and agree to the same with an amendment which inserts 

in the bill the following : · "For clerks to Senators, $24,000." WM. S. HOLMAN, JOHJ.~ HANCOCK, J. G. CANNON, 

Managers on the part of the House. 

1\lr. HOLMAN. Mr. Speaker, I hor I will have the ear of the House 

for a few moments. 

1\Ir. WHIT;E, of Kentuck'"Y. I rise to a question of order. I ask bow 

much time the gentleman is going to allow for debate on this? 

1\Ir. HOL fAN. How much time does the gentleman want? 

1\fr. ·wHITE, of Kentucky. About ten minutes. 

Mr. HOLMAN. The gentleman shall have that time. I hope the 

House will understand that this report in this form recommends the 

appropriation of this money, it is true, but it is purely a formal..report 

under the parliamentary rules for the purpo e of bringing the subject 

in this formal manner before be Honse. 

It is not to be a umed on the part of the Honse that the majority of 

its managers at thisconferencefavortheprincipledeclared in the report. 

I have already explained the reason why the report in this form is presen ted, and I desire to present it again. If the committee of conference 

simply reported a fuilure to agree} then the question would be, shall the 

House recede? And if the House not-only declined to recede, but on the 

contrary adopted the amendments of the Senate, then it would not show 

upon the face of the law that the , 20,000 was being appropriated for 

clerks ofSenators, butsimplytbat a given sumofmoneywa-5 appropriated for the contingent expenses of the Senate, to be applied as the enate might think proper. Therefore, for the purpose of presenting the 

subject in a tangible form, the conferees on the part of the Hou e consented to this form of report, recommending as a matter of form to the 

House to agree in the proposition of the Senate embodied, not in term, 

but in effect, in the original proposition of the Senate for 24,000, which 

sum they proposed to appropriate for the present fiscal year, beginning on 

the 1st of the present month, for the compensation of clerks of Senators. 

As a matter of course, Mr. Speaker, if the House shall adopt this 

report that is the end of the controversy between the two Houses, and 

the legislative, executive, and judicial appropriation bill becomes a 

law. It appropriates $24,000 for the clerks of Senators in that event. 

If the House does not agree to this report, the subject goes as a matter 

of course to another conference. That is all. 

I am exceedingly anxious to placethismatterclearly before the House, 

for I do not wish that the majority of the House conferees should be 

placed in the attitude of in effect recommencling the appropriation of 

this $24,000, as their judgment is against the appropriation for that 

purpose, and I trust we have been successful at least in presenting the 

reasons why the report has been presented in the form in which it stand . 

I now yield ten minutes to the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. 

WHITE]. 

1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. 1\lr. Speaker, the amount of money involved in this demand of the Senate is very small. We have given 

that much money frequently to various objects. But, sir, that is not 

the question. There is a principle involved in this demand. It was 

a small tax that led to the war of the Revolution. It was not the 

amount of the tax, but the principle involved in the tax which led to 

the throwing of the tea overboard in the Bo ton harbor. So it is in 

this case. It is not the $24,000 that I object to, but the principle it 

involves. If the Senate can say that the House shall give this $24,000 

to hire private secretaries for them, they arrogate to themselves the 

right also to demand that we shall give to them a carriage and a span 

of Kentucky trotters, a coachman, and a lackey. It is clearly intended 

as an increa e of the salary of the Senators, and there is no dispute but 

that is what it amounts to. 

Now, sir, we are brought to face this question fairly. In the Fortythird Congress the distinguished chairman of the Committee on Appropriations LMr. RANDALL], now"in this Roue, made this remark on a 

similar bill to increase the salary of Members and Senators from 5, 000 

to $7,500, known as the back-pay salary grab. In that discussion the 

gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. RANDALL] said: 

When I went into this conference on this bill I found there were three over- shado·wing questions beyond all others which were in controversy between the two Houses. The first one that met us in committee was this question of salaries. Upon that question I have uttered no doubtful sound and have made no doubtful record in this House. I have declared to the country and to my con- stituents that! believe I have earned$7,500a year since I have been in this Con- gress, and that I can not live here for less with my family in any ort of de- cency. 

Now, sir, there is the whole issue in a nutshell. We knew and the 

Senators knew when they were elected that the alary was fixed at 

$5,000 for each year. Can a member of Congress live in Washington for 

$5,000 a year? We thought so when we were candidates. If Congressmen can not perform their duties and can not live in decency in 

Washington for $5,000 a year, then pass a new law to take effect at the 

beginning of next Congr Representatives of the people are equal 

in rank if not superior to United States Senators, and it is not just nor 

proper that a Senator who is elected for six years and receives the same 

salary, the same allowances for stationery, the same allowance for mileage, nay, more, when there is an extra session of Congress shall be 

allowed more salary than is received by the Representatives of the 

people who under the Constitution hold the purse-strings. 

The Senators are chosen, as I say, for six years, while a Member is 

elected for but two years. Are we prepared to say that $5,000 salary 

a. year, which we knew we were to receive when we were elected to Congress, and 5,000 a year which the Senators knew they were to receive 

when they were elected to the United States Senate, is not sufficient? 

It is the high living indulged in, perhaps, after reaching Washington 

which leads to demands for increase of salaries. The gentleman from 

Pennsylvania [Mr. RA~J)A.LL] said in the clo ing hours of the Fortythird Congress, on the 3d day of March, 1 73, that he could not live 

here for less than 7,500 a year with hi family; and therefore he voted 

with the majority to increasethecompensation 2,500toeachandevery 

Representative and Senator. The Senate took the same view of the 

matter, and in order to assure the passage of that back-pay grab they 

proposed to give the President of the United State "50,000 a year. 

The country spoke .with no uncertain sound on that alary grab. It 

condemned the act, repudiated most of the members of Congress who 

•oted for it. Not a single member from the State which I have the 

honor in part to repre ent who voted for that salary grab occupies a 
.1884. CONGl{,ESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE . 6149 

place on the floor of t.his House to-day; not one. There are very few 

of them from· other States. Some of the Democratic members who took 

the salary grab have been able to weather the storm more than the Republicans who took it; which shows again that the Republican party 

is more ensitiveto questions of honor than the Democratic party. [Applau e and laughter.] 

Xow, sir, I call the attention ofthe HousetotheCon titution, article 

1, . ection 6, paragraph 2: 

:Ko Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, 

be a-ppointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which 

shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof hall have been increased 

during such time. 

Does not every member know, does not the whole country know that 

this increase of 24,000 tor the Senate to hire private ecretaries amounts 

to an increa e of a thousand dollars a year of the salary allowed to each 

ruemberoftheSenate to give to some member ofhisfamily; and are we 

not in that respect violating the Constitution; for ''inasmuch as ye do it 

unto the least of them" ye do it unto the Senators? [Laughter and 

erie of" Vote!" "Vote!"] 

I need not discuss this further. I merely want to put myself qnarely 

on the record; and for one, although the amount is only e;24,000, before I will grant one dollar to the superiority of the foreign ambassadors 

of the State who consent to appointments after they have advised the 

President to make them, whereby the Republican minority in the South 

is traded off for the support of Democratic Senators, which results in 

the success of one faction over another faction of the Republican party 

in the North, all of which tends to the disruption and destruction of the 

Republican party-before I consent to that I am willing for one to stand 

heJ'.'e, if a quorum will stand with me, until next December. 

Mr. HOLl\lAN. I ·yield to the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. 

YoUNG]~ · Mr. YOUNG. It appears to me that the question involved in the 

report just submitted is a very important one. I confess I do not dis; 

tinctly understand what the recommendations of the committee of conference are. I understand this, however, so far as my personal convictions go, that we ought not to vote for such a measure as this. I have 

no disposition to protract this session of Congress. I have no dispo ition to reflect in any way on gentlemen on this :floor who entertain 

different view . . But I feel I owe it to myself and to my constituents to express to the 

Hou e my disapprobation of this measure. In itself it may be right. 

The alary of every Represm:ttative and of every Senator perhaps ought 

to be greater than it is. Perhaps they ought to have this clerical assistance. I know members of the House need it. But I know this in 

addition-that the people who sent us here do not expect us to pass 

this measure, and, therefore, I desire to record my vote against it. 

Mr. HOLMAN. So far as the appropriation bills are concerned this 

is the last of them, with the exception of the diplomatic bill, which 

will undoubtedly be returned to the House in a few minutes; and this 

is the last item upon which this HQuse will have occasion to act so far 

as the general appropriations are concerned. I trust, sir, that notwithstanding the lateneSs of the hour this question will be decided 

according to the judgment of each member on this :floor. In my judgment this money ought not to· be appropriated. It is virtually and 

necessarily simply an increase of the salaries of a part of the members 

of the NationalLegi Iature-thatandnothingle . I do not think the 

appropriation should be made. I do not think that any ha te to leave 

this Capitol should justify any variation from the dictates of reason and 

judgment in deciding upon this question. I do not think the appropriation should be made. 

I yield to my colleague on the committee, the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. CANNON], such ti,me as he may desire. 

Mr. CANNON. I desire only to occupy a minute or two. 

I did not intend to say a word about this, .Mr. Speaker, and would 

not now were it not that a day or two ago, when this subject was 

discus..<;ed to a certain extent by the House, I announced my opposition 

to this appropriation. Being upon the colltference committee and having 

united with the gentleman from Indiana and the gentleman from Texas 

in recommending the adoption of the conference report, it is due to myself that I should say that action wa.S taken in view of the action of the 

House in adopting the conference report upon the deficiency bill. · I do not regard this matter as an open question now, for the reason 

that within the last hour, when the conference report upon the deficiency bill was adopted which appropriated 26,000 or 27,000 to pay 

for these clerks for the year just clo ed, the principle was established, 

and tills appropriation is but to pay for the same clerks for the year 

which has just commenced. 

I do not care about discussing this question further. I perhaps 

might say that I hope in the future this will be corrected, either by 

doing away with this pay for Senators clerks, or by a well-considered 

and judicious law, if pay there must be to any clerks, that will make 

it exactly equal as between the House and the Senate. It is not so 

much the amount of money that is involved that gives me trouble in 

connection with this question, but it is the fact that we have already 

yielded and are proposing to yield further to a distinction between the 

two co-ordinate branches, when my conviction i that hereafter as heretofore they should stand exactly upon the same platform touching this 

and all other pay and perq nisites. · 

The SPEAKER. What motion does the gentleman from Indiana 

[.Mr. HOLMAN] submit? 

1\Ir. HOL1\1Al~. We make the report with the usual recommendation as a matter of form, with the view that if the vote taken on the 

deficiency bill is to be regarded as an instruction, and if the appropriation is made, it shall appear on its face what it is for; that it shall 

appear on the face of the law that the money is appropriated not for 

general contingencies but for clerks of Senators. 

It is for that purpose and because of the implied instructions given 

by a former vote of the House that the conferees of the House have 

submitted this subject in its present form, with the understanding, 

however, that the majority of the Honse conferees, the gentleman from 

illinois [Mr. CANNO:N] and my elf do not concur in the appropriation 

of thi money, but on the contrary believe that the salaries of members of the ;House and of Senators are high enough. 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. Allow me to ask the gentleman a 

question. 

~1r. HOLMAN. Certainly. 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. Do I understand from the gentleman from Indiana that he is going to vote against this conference re- port? · 

Mr. HOLMAN. If the gentleman will call the yeas and nays, perhap I will.' 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. I trust that if the gentleman does 

this side of the House ill follow him. · 

The SPEAKER. The question is upon agreeing to the report of the 

committee of conference. 

1\Ir. COX, of North Carolina. Upon that I call for the yeas and nays. 

1\Ir. HOLMAN. For the purposeof brin.,<Ying this subject before the 

House for action, I move pro forma the adoption of the report. 

The question was taken upon ordering the yeas and nays, and there 

were 19 in the affirmative. 

The SPEAKER. That is not one-fifth of the last vote. 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania, and Mr. PAYSON called for a count 

of the other side. 

The negative vote was counted, and'there were 105. 

The SPEAKER. Upon ordering the yeas and nays upon agreeing 

to the report of the committee of conference the ayes are 19, the noes 

105. The ayes not being one-fifthofthe whole vote, tlie yeas and nays 

are refused. • 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. No quorum has voted. 

The SPEAKER. It does not require a quorum to decide the call for 

the yea and nays. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I call for tellers on ordering the yeas 

and nays. 

Tellers were not ordered, there being but 10 in the affirmative-:t10t 

one-fifth of a quorum. 

The PEA.KER. The yeas and nays are refused. The question is 

upon agreeing to the conference report. 

The question was taken; and upon a division there were-ayes 70, 

noes 48. 

Mr. WillTE, of Kentucky. No quorum. _ 

Mr. 1\llLLS. Do not make that point and require us to stay here 

all nigh1i . . Mr. WIDTE, of Kentucky. There is important legislation to be 

done besides this. 

The SPEAKER. It can not be done without a quorum. 

Mr. WILLIS. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. WILLIS. Can any business whatever be done without a quorum? 

The SPEAKER. Of course not; the Constitution prohibits it. 

1\Ir. WIDTE, of Kentucky. Members of Congress are paid by the 

year, and ought to be here. 

The SPEAKER. The question is not debatable. The pointoforder 

is made that no quorum has voted. The Chair will appoint as tellers 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky, and Mr. MILLS. 

The House again divided; and the tellers reported that there wereayes 100, noes 69. 

Before t.he result of the vote was announced, 

Mr. WHITE, ofKentuc:b..""J, said: Now that we have a quorum I ask 

for the yeas and nays. . The SPEAKER. The yeas and nays have been a ked for and refn ed by the House. 

1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. Can not I ask for them again ? 

The SPEAKER. Only by unanimous consent, the House having 

already voted not to take the question by yeas and nays. 

Mr. WillTE, of Kentucky. Then I ask unanimous con ent for the 

yea and nays. 

Many members objected. 

The SPEAKER. Objection is made. Upon this vote the tellers report ayes 100, noes 69. The ayes have it, and the report of the com- mittee of conference is agreed to. 

Mr. HOLUAN moved to reconsider the vote by which the report of 
6150 CONGRESSIONAL REC-ORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, . 

the committee of' conference was agree!l to; and also moved that the 

motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

EXROLLED BILLS SIGKED. 

Mr. PETERS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the cqmmittee had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the ame: A bill (H. R. 1042) for the relief of 1\Irs. Sarah Sinfield; · A bill (H. R. 1 97) granting a pension to Catherine Hunter; 

A bill (H. R. 2979) granting a pension to Nancy Ellis; 

A bill (H. R. 4417) granting an increase of pension to Jacob Miller; 

A bill (H. R. 5888) granting a pension to Ellen O'Brian; and 

A bill (H. R. 6530) to increa e the pension of Richard Jobes. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

1\Ir. WELLER. I rise to a question of order. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. WELLER. On the conveningofthe Housethisevening !made a motion that we proceed to the consideration of certain pension bil~. 

The SPEAKER. That is not a point of order. 

Mr. WELLER. I was about to state the point of order. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. WELLER. I want to know whether it will be necessary for me to renew that motion, or whether the Speaker will submit it to the 

House. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman must decide for himself whether 

it is necessary for him to make the motion or ot. 

:Ur. WELLER. I did not hear the Chair. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman did not make the motion. The 

gentleman arose and attempted to make it, but it was not made. 

Mr. 1\llLLS. I want to ask a kindness of the House in this our closing hours of the first session of the Forty-eighth Congress. I want 

the House to do me the favor to permit Senate bill No. 62, providing 

for the erection of a public building at Waco, Tex., to be taken from 

the Speaker's table and passed at this time. The judges of both the 

circuit and district courts certify that there is no place there for the 

court to be held. The bill has passed the Senate, has been recommended 

favorably by the committee of~he House and is on the Speaker's table, 

and it will take but a moment to pass it. 

1\Ir. BLACKBURN. That is right. 

Mr. GUENTHER and others objected. 

The SPEAKER. Objection is made. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I call fo.r the regular order. . Mr. HOLMAN. I move that the House now take a recess for thirty 

minutes. 

The SPEAKER. That is a privileged motion' under the rules of the 

House. . • The question was taken upon the motion of.Mr. HoLMAN; and upon a 

division there were-ayes 111, noes 17. . So (no further count being called for) the motion was agreed to; and 

accordingly (at 9 o'clock and 25 minutes p.m.) theHousetoqk arecess until 9 o'clock and 55 minutes p. m. 

The recess haying expired, the House resumed its session. 

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA EXPENSES. 

1\{r. HOLMAN. There were certain items struck from the deficiency 

bill by the conferees proposing appropriations to be paid from the funds 

of the District of Columbia. After this was done the gentleman 

having charge of the subject became satisfied that t-'!:lose appropriations, amounting to about 5, 000, shoUld be made. I ask unanimous 

consent that a joint resolution covering these matters may now be introduced, and, if there be no objection, passed. 

There being no objection, 

Mr. HOLMAN introduced a joint resolution (H. Res. 286) for the 

payment of certain persons therein named for clerical services in making clerical and" assess" books; which was read a first and second 

time. 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection the House will proceed 

to the consideration ofthis resolution. 

There being no objection, the joint resolution was read, as follows: 

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives, &c., That the Secretary of 

t}le Treasury be, and he is hereby, authorized to pay the following named per- sons fot; clerical services in making clerical and ''assess'' books, namely: To F. G. Cowte, $138; to G. A. Hall, $4'35; toW. E. Morgan, $505; to John S. Bell, 

$180; t.o Thomas B. Shoemaker, $45; to William Griffin, S700; to E. W. W. Griffin, 

$900; toR. E. Fish,$900; to Frank Wilson, $900; to J. F. Thompson, $171; to Charles D. Merwin, $30; in all, 55,704, out of any money appropriated for the 

District of Columbia not otherwise specifically set apart for other purposes. 

1\Ir. CALKINS. I desire to say that the statement- made by the 

gep. tleman from Indiana in regard to this matter is entirely correct. 

1\fr. RANDALL. While this proposition is right, I wish it understood that there was no error in the report upon the deficiency bill; 

these items were not omitted by mistake. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I did not intend to have it understood that these 

appropriations were omitted by an error. They were intended to be 

stricken out of the deficiency bill. 

The joint resolution was ordered to beengrossedandreadathird time; 

and being engrossed, it wa.s accordingly read the third time, and passed. 

1\Ir. HOL'MAN moved to reconsider the vote by which the joint res- olution was passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

1\IES AGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secre~ announced 

that the Senate had agreed to the report of the committee of conference on the amendments of the ~enate numbered 21, 24, and 25 to the legislative, executive, and judicial appropriation bill. 

ORDYANCE AND GUNNERY. 

~Ir. HISCOCK. I send a resolution to the Clerk's desk to be read; 

and if there be no objection, I will ask for its immediate consideration. The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, That a select committee of seven Representatives be appointed by 

the Speaker to inquire as to the capacity of steel-producing works in the United 

States to make steel of suitable quality and sufficient in quantity to furnish metal 

for guns of high power, and metal plates and other material for the construc- tion of vessels of war, and for the armor or sheathing for such vessels. 2. That said committee shall also inquire as to. the character and sufficiency of machinery and machine-tools in the navy-yards, and also in private founderies and machine-shops in the United States, fpr the construction of engines 

suitable for vessels of war, and for manufaduring guns for the proper arma- ment of such vessels, and of the seacoast defenses, and for the purpose of con- structing iron and steel ships of war. 3. Said committee shall also inquire into the best locations in the United 

States for manufacturing guns, engines, and armor for vessels, and for building 

iron and steel ships of war, and the best method of manufacturing and building 

the same, whether by the Government or by contract with private persons. 4. Said committee shall have power to sit in the vacation of the House at any place in the United States, to send for persons and papers, and to appoint a clerk 

and messenge r, and may report by bill or otherwise. 

5. The expenses of said committee, and of witnesses summoned before it, shall 

be paid out of the contingent fund of the House, to be certified by the chairman 

of the committee, and audited and allowed by the Committee on Accounts. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the present consideration of 

this resolution? 

Mr. COX, of North Carolina. I object. 

EXCUSED FROM COlfMITTEE SERVICE. 

l!Ir. KASSON. I ask to be excused from further service on the Committee on Ways and Means. 

There being no objection, !Ir. KASSON was excused. 

GOVERN1\IENT WHARF AT WILJUINGTON 1 N. C. 

Mr. GREEN. I ask unanimous consent to take from the Speaker's 

table for immediate consideration Senate bill1251, to authorize the 

purchase of a wharf for the use of the Government in Wilmington, N. 

C. This bill is designed simply to authorize the purchase of property 

in Wilmington, N.C., for the benefit of the revenue-marine service, and 

for other purposes. 

1\ir. DUNN. I object. 

CO:ID\fiTTEE APPOINTMENTS. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair announces necessary changes which 

have been made in the committees of the House by reason of vacancies 

which have occurred. 

The changes announced by the Speaker are as follows: 

Committee on Ways and Means (to fill vacancies)-THOMAS M. 

BROWNE, THOMAS B. REED. 

Committee on the Judiciary-ABRAHAM X. PARKER, EDWARD K. 

VALENTINE (to fill vacancies occasioned by the resignations of THoMAS 

M. BROWNE and THOMAS B. REED). 

Committee on Agriculture-E. H. FUNSTON (to fill vacancy occasioned 

by the resignation of THOMAS P. 0CHILTREE). 

Committee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads-THOMAS P. OcHILTREE 

(to fill vacancy). 

Committee on Manufactures-RoBERT SMALLS (to fill vacancy). 

Committee on Labor-E. H. FUNSTON (to fill vacancy). 

Committee on Militia-ROBERT SMALLS (to fill vacancy). 

Committee on Patents-J. R. CHALMERS (to fill vacancy). 

Select Committee on the Law respecting the Election of President 

and Vice-President-J.. ·R. 9HALMERS {to fill vacancy occasioned by 

the resignation of ABil..A.HAl\1 X. PARKER). Committee on Appropriations-JoHN D. LoNG (to fill vacancy). 

Committee on Banking and Currency-JOHN KEAN, Jr., in place · of BENJAMIN S. HOOPER . . 

Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds.,..-HARRY LIBBEY, in 

place of JOHN KEAN1 Jr. 

Select Committee on Public Health-BENJA:U:IN S. HooPER in place 

of HARRY LIBBEY. 

Committee on Commerce-WILLIAM P. HEPBURN in place of JOHN 

D. LONG. . 

Select Committee on American Ship-building and Ship-owning Interests-LEWIS E. McCoMAS in place of JOHN D. LOYG. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I move a recess for half a,n hour. 

Mr. WEAVER I ask the gentleman to withhold that motion for a moment. I desire to ask unanimous consent to take from the Speaker's 

table and put on its passage the bill (S. 2348) to authorize the increase 

of the capital stock ofthe First National Bank ofOmaha, Nebr. This 

is a matter to which no one will. object when the bill hJ.S been read. 
I 

1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6151 

Mr. DUNN. I demand the regular order of business. Inion which I send to the desk, and I am sure it will <'-<>mmeurl it~ 

The SPEAKER. The question recUIS on the motion to take a. re- to the Hou e as a proper mea ure if they will hear the reading of it. 

~. The SPEAKER. The resolution will be read, subject to objecbon. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move that the House do now adjourn, The Clerk read as follows: 

and on that motion I ask for a division. Resolt·ed, That the resolutions of February 23 and August 7, 1882, directing the 

The House dinded,· and there were-ayes 1, noes 94. compilation and printing of questions of order decided in the Committe~ of tuc 

Whole Hou eon the tate of the Union on general appropriation and revenut" 

So the House refused to aujourn. bills be extended so as to include the Forty-sixth, Forty-seventh, ami Forty- The SPEAKER. The question recurs on the motion to take a recess eighth Congresse . 

for thirty minutes. • :Mr. BLACKBURN. I will state that this is simply in accordance 

The Rouse divided; and there were-ayes 77, noes 9. with the resolution formerly adopted by the House. and is necessary 

1\h. WHITE, of Kentuck-y. No quorum. to enable the chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on the 

The SPEAKER appointed Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky, and Mr. HoL- state of the Union to know what h:lS been the rulings of the committee 

!IAN as tellers. • in such cases. 

The House again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 99, noes 2. 1\fr. DUNN. Let me ask if some such resolution was not in~ 

lli. WHITE, of Kentucky. I ask we proceed to the consideration duced on yesterday? 

of the l'lle:xican pension bill. lli. BLACKBURN. No; not this resolution. 

The PEAKER. That is not in order while the House is dividing. 1\fr. DUNN. There was a resolution in reference to the Digest intro1\h. WHITE, of Kentucky. No quorum has voted, and I move that duced on yesterday. 

there be a call of the House. Mr. BLACKBURN. That related to the printing of the Digest of 

The motion that there be a call of the House was disagreed to. the Rules, butthisresolutionrefersto the compilationofpointsoforder 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. It is now nearly midnight. We are and decisions upon them. 

waiting for the Senate. They are now engaged in an active debate, The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the present consideration of 

and we had as well go home as to stay here. Why should we waste the resolution? · 

time by taking recess after recess? I moved that the Hou e adjourn, Mr. HOLMAN. Reserving the right to object I would like to state 

and it has refused tO do so. As it will not adjourn let us proceed to that I do not remember the effect of that resolution. 

busine . Here is the Mexican pension bill returned with amendment, Mr. BLACKBURN. I will read. it for the gentleman. I have it 

and let us take it up and send it back to the Senate. Here also is the here before me. 

educational bill. On the23dofFebruary, 1882, onmotion ofthegentlemanfrom Maine 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Kentucky is out of order. [!\h. REED] the following resolution was adopted: 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky (at 10 o'clock and 25 minutes P· m., That the Journal Clerk be directed to compile for the use of the House all 

July 6, 1884). I move the House do now adjourn. questions of order raised and decided in Committee of the Whole House on ~ The motion was disagreed to. the state of the Union, upon the consideration of appropriation and revenue lli. DAVIS, of Illinois. I ask unanimous consent to take up Hous~ bills from the Fortieth t-o the Forty-sixth Congress inclusive, and the necessary expenses incurred in copying a.nd indexing the same shall be paid out of the 

bill 260. contingent fund of the House, subject to the approval of the Committee on Ao1\Ir. HOLMAN. I withdraw the motion for a recess. counts. 

THANKS TO SPEAKER C..A..RLISLE. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I notice that Mr. Speaker CARLISLE is temporarily 

absent from the chair, and I offer a. resolution to which there will not 

only be no objection, but which, in my judgment, will be unanimously 

adopted, as expressing the sentiments of every member of the House. 

I ask the Clerk to read·it. [Applause.] 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, That the thanks of this House are due and are he~eby tendered ~o 

Hon. JOHN G. CARLISLE, Speaker of the House of Representatives, for the ability, efficiency, and strict impartiality with which he has discharged the arduous 

and responsible duties of his office during the present session of Congress. 

[Applause.] · · . 

The question was submitted to the House on the adoption of the reso- lution. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. ScALEs in the chair). The resolutic,n is unanimously adopted. [Applause.] 

Mt. HOLMAN. I move to take a recess for half an hour. 

1tf 'l. DAVIS, of illinois. I ask unanimous consent of the House that 

House bill260 be put on its passage. 

Mr. DUNN. Regular order. . 

1\h. DAVIS, of Illinois. I ask the gentleman to withdraw his demand until I can make a brief statement. The bill has been reported 

from the Committee on the Judiciary. 

Mr. DUNN. I have no objection to the gentleman making a statement, but I will renew my demand after he has concluded. 

· Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Is a recess demanded for conference 

committees to meet or to go to the Senate to hear the discussion? 

Mr. HOLMAN. The latter, I presume. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. The Senate is enjoying a hilarious debate which will last till Monday morning, and as it is now near midnight I move the House adjourn. 

The motion was disagreed to. 

Mr. HoLMAN's motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at 10 o'clock 

and 25 minutes p. m.) the House took a recess for thirty minutes. 

AFTER THE RECESS. 

The recess having expired, the House atll o'clock and 5 minutes p. m. resumed i t.s session. -

Mr. WELLER. I now move, and hope there will be no objection to 

the motion, to discharge the Committee of the Whole House on the 

Private Calendar from the further consideration of certain pension bills 

passed by the Senate and which only wait the action of the House to 

become laws. 

Mr. DUNN. Regular order. 

])fr. WELLER. I hope the gentleman will not insist upon that demand. These are bills that can be disposed of in twenty or twentyfive minutes, and I hope he will withdraw the objection. 

Mr. DUNN. Rigular order. 

. DIGEST OF POINTS OF ORDER. 

Mr. BLACKBURN. Mr. Speaker~ I ask consent to b:tfer the resoThat was the resolution reported by the gentlemanfrom·Maine [Mr. 

REED], then and now a member of the Committee on Rules of this body. 

This is ~imply to carry it on to embrace the Congresses specified in the 

resolution in order that the chairman of the committee may he guided 

by such decisions as have been made in the Committees of the Whole 

House by hi'3 predecessors. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the present consideration of 

the resolution? 

There was no objection. 

The resolution was adopted. 

Mr. BLACKBURN moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. . 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDNANCE AND GUNNERY. 

1\h. HISCOCK. Mr . .Speaker, I llllderstand the gentleman from 

North Carolina is willing to withdraw his objection to the resolution I 

offered before the recess. and I now ask that it be taken up for present 

consideration. ' 

Mr. COX, f North Carolinia. That is correct. I withdraw the objection. 

The SPEAKER: The resolution will be reported to the House. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

.Resolved, That a select committee of seven Representatives be appointed by the Speaker to inquire as to the capacity of steel-producing works in the United 

States to make steel of suitable quality and sufficient in quantity to furnish 

metal for guns of high power, and metal plates and other material fot the con- struction of vessels of war~ a~~ for the arm~r or sheathing for such vessels. 2. That said committee sna.u also inquire as to the character and sufficiency of machinery and machine-t-ools in the navy-yards, and also in private founderiesand machine-shops in the United States, for the construction of engines suitable for vessels of war, and for manufacturing guns for the proper anna.- ment of such ve els, and of the seacoast defenses, and for the purpo es of con- structing iron and steel ships of war. 3. Said committee shall also inquire into the best locations in the U:ni~d 

States for manufacturing guns, engines, and armor Tor vessels, ~ad for b~~g 

iron and steel ships of war, and the best method of manufacturmg and building the same, whether by the Government or by contract with private persons. 4. Said committee shall have power to sit in the va{)ation of the Hou e at any< place in the United States, to send forpersonsandpapers, and to appoint a clerk 

and messenger, and may report by bill or otherwise. · 5. The expenses of said committee, and of witnesses s~oned before i~, shall 

be paid out of the contingent fund of the House, to becertlfled by the cha1rman 

of the committee, and audited and allowed by the Committee on Accounts. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the present consideration of 

the resolution? 

Mr. WELLER. I do not quite like that resolution, but in hopes 

that the pension bills to which I have referred may be properly considered after this is disposed ot; I will not make objection. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I withhold the right to object to that paper for a. moment. There may be, and undoubtedly are, subjects thatoughtto 

be inquired into; but I submit to the gentleman from New York that 

the inquiry sought to be made by a gentleman from his own State 

[.Mr. HEWITT] is at least of as much practical moment and the in- formati~n more difficult to obtain than this, and more in my judg-
6152 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, 

ment justifying an investigation through the committee than even 

the matters involved in the resolution which has just been read, for 

those are matters that can be obtained in other ways thau through the 

report of a committee of Congress. I submit, therefore, to the gentleman from New York 'that the duties to devolve uoon that committee 

hould also relate to the inquiry sought to be inStituted by his colleague; and I ask that the resolution of Mr. HEwr'IT be read in connection with this subject. 

.Mr. COX, of New York. I think the be t way i to consider both 

the resolutions together. :Mr. HISCOCK. If the resolution which the gentleman from Indiana asks me to consent to have passed is the one to which I objected 

the other day, I say very frankly I shall not withdraw my objection. 

That resolution had for its purpose, as I believe and as I understood at 

the time, the investigation of Departments to a certain extent by a 

political committee. This is nothing of the kind. This is simply and 

olely for the purpose of investigating a subject as to which the House 

ought to have information, and it has nothing political in its charaeter. 

Everything of that kind has been excluded from it. .And if I am 

asked to make a bargain that something of a political charaeter or a 

resolution which authorizes investigation must be incorporated in it, 

it may be as well understood first as last that I can not consent to it. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I think the gentleman from New York should acquiesce in that proposition. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I can not do it. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York [Mr. HiscocK] 

has asked unanimous consent to introduce a resolution tor present consideration. Is there objection? · :M:r. HOLMAN. Reserving the right to object, I have asked the gentleman to agree to the introduction of the other resolution which I have 

sent to the desk. 

l\Ir. THOMAS. Of course the gentleman from Indiana ha~ the right 

to reserve his o"Qjection; but I think the resolution introduced by the 

gentleman from New York [Mr. HiscocK] ought to be passed. Iremember when we were trying to ecure the passage of the bill authorizing the building of the new cruisers the Committee on Naval Affairs 

found itself without any sufficient information as to the ability of the 

iron and steel manufacturers of this country to furnish nece sary material out of which to build ships., In fact there seemed to be little or 

nothing generally known as to the capacity of this country to furnish 

the material to be ultimately adopted. An investigation was made by 

the Committee on Naval .Affairs, running through some four months of 

time, and certain facts were disclo ed before that committee and reported to the House which induced this House to adopt steel as the 

best material out of which to build ships. That point for that time 

was settled. 

Now, another important point is to determine whether we have the 

ability to furnish the proper material for the construction of high-power 

guns. It is of importance that that matter should be dispassionately 

and thoroughly investigated, so that Congress at its next session may 

ad wisely and intelligently upon a question which muat of necessity 

come very soon before us for action. · Mr. WELLER. Will the gentleman yield to me for a question? 

Mr. THOMAS. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WELLER. I desire to inquire of the gentleman from Illinois 

if, in his opinion, it is wi e to send out seven legislators to enter the 

field of science with reference to this matter? 

Mr. THOMAS. That depends entirely on the selection of the legislators. If I were making the selection there are some members in my 

eye whom I would not send on such an ex-pedition. 

Mr. WELLER. I reciprocate the gentleman's sentiment. 

Mr. T'HOMAS. For my part I have no expectation of being on the 

committee. 

Mr. WELLER. I would inquire further of the gentleman from Illinois if it is not quite possible for this committee of seven to make a finding that will result in an advertisement of some particular firm or its 

work? 

Mr. THOMAS. I hardly think the gentleman's estimate of the legislators of this country is justified by the chara<!ter they bear here and 

at home. I am quite confident that the average legislator, the average 

member of Congress, has the good of his country at heart and his own 

reputation at stake sufficiently to prevent anything of the sort. 

Mr. McMILLIN. I will suggest to the gentleman from Illinois 

that going through the navy-yard a few days ago I saw they are already 

making very large and what ru·e expected to be very fine guns out of 

American material. 

Mr. HORR. The gentleman from Tennessee is entirely mistaken. 

The jackets for those guns were all shipped from abroad. 

Mr. McMILLIN. Ifiaminerror, theofficerincharge ofthe work, 

who went through the navy-yard with me, is in error also. He was 

my authority, and I supposed he was thoroughly informed on the subject. 1\lr. HORR. Does the gentleman mean the rifled cannon they aTe now building there? 

Mr. Mcl\IlLLIN. Yes, sir. 

l\lr. HORR. The jackets for that cannon were shipped from abroad. 

You can not make a piece of steel in the United States large enough 

for that purpose. 

l\It. McMILLIN. I am speaking of the guns. There are jackets 

as well. But the steel out of which the gun properi mane is produced 

here. It seems to me that if the steel that is put into the gun proper 

is not good it ought to be obtained elsewhere; and if it is fit for that 

it is fit for the jacket as well. 

Ur. THOMAS. I want to say to the gentleman from Tennessee that 

the <1,uality of American steel has been shown to be the best of any 

made in this age. 

Mr. McMILLIN. Then what is the need for are olution to make an additional inquiry a to that question? 

Mr. THOMAS. Because we . think the cap~city of our steel manufactories to furnish steel in large amounts has not yet been presented 

to Congress in such a shape as to be readily accessible. 

Mr. McMILLIN. Can it not be obtained by the Bureau of Statistics. 

or by the Engineer Bureau? 

1\Ir. THOMAS. I suppo e it could. 

Mr. Mcl\fiLLIN. Or by the Navy Department? 

Mr. THOMAS. I suppo e that if a. resolution were introduced here 

directingeithertheBureauofStatisticsortheNavyDepartmenttomake 

an investigation and report it would be done. I think, however, that 

this House is quite as able to look up and prepare statistics for its own 

use as either of the bureaus or Departments; and it would be much 

more accessible when presented in the way in which committees of this. 

House are accustomed to present matters of this kind, and it would be 

very much more satisfactory. 

?tlr. WELLER. Another question, if I may ask it? 

1\Ir. THOMAS. Certainly. 

l\Ir. WELLER. In your opinion would it not be better for this". 

House to select five or seven scientific men, men who understand the 

business, rather than to take seven legislators, even such as the gentle- man has not in his eye at present. · 

Mr. REED. I would like to say just a word in reply to that sug· 

gesti.on. 

l\Ir. WELLER. I hope the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. THOMAS} 

will answer my question, unless he declines it: 

l\1r. THOMAS. No, I do not decline to answer it; I shall be very 

glad to do it. After some little experience here I have found that the 

intelligence of members of this House enables them to investigate 

such subjects as we are caUed upon to legislate about. It is proper for 

them to hear the opinions of experts and to report the facts to the 

House, and I think it would be done much more satisfactorily by the 

committee here proposed than by any body of scientific men that you. 

might select. 

lfr. Mcl\IILLIN. I would like to ask the gentleman this question: 

does he consider it possible that we have a board of officers constructing large guns that are to co t from 100,000 to . 200,000 eaeh, or even, 

$50,000 each, and those officers do not know good material when they see it, and do not know where it is produced? 

.Mr. THOMAS. I do not propose to answer for the intelligence or 

those officers, but I do assert that there are naval officers and men en· 

gaged in the construction of these guns who are able to determine that. 

matter. 

l\Ir. McMILLIN. Do they not know more about it to-day than can 

be taught to any set of men, who do not understand it as scientists, 

between now and the next session of Congress? 

Mr. THOMAS. I think that is a very safe propo ition. 

Mr. REED. It seems to me that the remark of the gentlemen from 

Iowa [Mr. WELLER] ought to be attended to. 

l\Ir. WELLER. And I hope the gentleman from Maine will give it 

specific attention. 

l\Ir. REED. Precisely. The proposition now before the House is. 

not to create a scientific commission for the purpose of improving the 

manufaeture of steel. It is to create a committee of this House to ob· 

tain information and transmit it to this House. One of the disadvantages that we lie under in our legislation here i that no one of the head& 

of the Departments charged with executive work has a position on the 

floor of the House which would enable him to explain tlie various measures which are before us. Therefore, while we have naval officer& 

learned in their business and Army officers learned in their business, 

they cannot come hereon the floor and with the knowledge which they 

ought to have explain the facts which it is necessary for this House too 

understand. 

It is very desirable that a committee should be appointed to obtain 

the necessary information in order that that information may be communicated to us in regard toquestions as they may arise. It has been 

the custom for many years for Congress to do that. For instance, we 

had a Mississippi River committee, and I think the members of that 

committee gave this House a great deal of information. A great dea1 

of information is to be obtained from the statements of individuals, and 

everybody knows that they are much more effective than statements 

which are found in books. 

ENROLLED BILL SIGXED. 

1t!r. HOLl\IES, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6153 

the committee had examined and found truly enrolled a bill of the 

House of the following title; when the Speaker signed the same: 

A bill (H. R. 7235) making appropria~ions to supply deficiencies .in 

the appropriations for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1 84, and for pnor 

years, and for tho e certified as due by the accounting officers of the 

Treasury in accordance with section 4 of the act of June 14, 1878, heretofore paid from permanent appropriations, and for other purposes. 

MESSAGE FRO::\! THE SE....~ATE. 

A lllessage from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, informed 

the House that the Senate had receded from its amendment numbered 

15 , disagreed to by the House, to the bill of the House of the following title: 

A bill (H. R. 6770) making_ appropriation for the cons~ar and diplomatic service of the Government for the fiscal year e.nding June 30, 

1 5, and for other purposes. 

The message alRo announced that the S{lnate had passed without 

amendment a joint resolution of the House ofthe following ~tle: 

Joint resolution (H. Res. 286) for the payment of certam·pel'SOns 

therein named for clerical ervices rendered the District of Columbia 

in making numerical and ''assess" books. 

The message further announced that the Senate had passed, with an 

amendment in which the concurrence of the House was requested, a 

bill of the following title: 

A bill (H. R. 7509) making temporary provision for the naval service. 

ORDNANCE AND GUNNERY. 

The SPEAKER. Is th~re objection to the present consideration of 

the resolution submitted by the gentleman from New York [Mr. HisCOCK] which has been read ? 

Mr. COX, of New York. Would it not be better to say something 

on it? 

The SPEAKER. The resolution is not yet before the House. 

Mr. RANDALL. Let us get it before the House and then talk 

about it. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Let it remain in its present attitude until we can 

hear from gentlemen. 

The SPEAKER. If there is no objection it will stand as it is. 

Mr. WELLER. Might I be permitted to ask the gentleman from 

Uaine [Mr. REED] a que tion touching this matter ? 

APPROPRIATIOY FOR THE NAVAL SERVICE. 

Mr. RANDALL. I ask con ent to call up the Senate amendment to 

the bill of the House 7509, making temporary provision for the naval 

service. 

The SPEAKER. The amendment of the Senate will be read. 

The amendment of the enate was read, as follows: Strike out, after line 25, on page 3, down to and including line 11, on page 4, the following: "Nothing herein contained shall be construed as approprt:t1:ing money for or authorizing the continuation of work upon the double-turreted mou\tors .Monadnock, Terror, Amphitrite, and :Puritan; and any unexpended balance remaining of the appropriation contained in said act approved March 3, 1883, for engines and mac.llinery for said double-turreted monito~s shall be covered into the Treasur:y, except such part thereof as may be reqmred under existing contracts made for the engines and machinery of the three last-named monitors," and in ert: "The appropriation for engines, machinery, &c., of the double-turreted monitors Monadnock, Terror, Amphitrite, and Puritan con- tained in said act approved March 3, 1883, shall be, and is hereby, continued; and the same is made available for the purpose declared in said act." 

Mr. RANDALL . . Mr. Speaker, I think I donotviolate the proprieties of legisilltive life and association when I say that this bill was 

introduced by me with the concurrence of all the members of the conference committee upon the naval appropriation bill proper. It was 

in fact the result of agreement; and at the request of the Senate conferees this bill wru not brought in as a substitute for the original bill, 

as might have been done in the conference report, because it was deRired that the original bill might rest upon the table to be in a position 

to be considered further when Congress shall reassemble in December 

next. I therefore ask--

Mr. CALKINS. If the gentleman will yield to me a moment, I 

desire to state in the presence of the House that this amendment affectB 

only the Monadnock--

Mr. RANDALL. I know all that. 

Mr. CALKINS. I hope the gentleman will allow me to make my 

statement. It affects only the Monadnock, which is now at the navyyard in California. 

Mr. RANDALL. I know that. But when I make an agreement 

I want to abide by it. 

Mr. CALKINS. I ask the gentleman to allow me to complete my 

statement. This amendment affects only the Ionadnock, which is 

now on the Pacific coast. Of the money appropriated by the last Congress fo.r that vessel there is unexpended, if I remember rightly, 62,-

000 or '6~, 000. 

Ur. RANDALL. No, sir; 174,000. 

.Mr. CALKINS. I accept the gentleman's correction. One hundred 

and eventy-four thousand dollar3 of the amount appropriated by the 

last Congress has not been expended because the Secretary of the Navy, 

out of deference to the opinion of the chairman of the Committee on 

Appropriations at this session, decided that he would not make the 

contract until Congress bad had opportunity to act upon the question. 

This money was appropriated by the last Congress and' under the existing law is subject to be expended for the side armor of the Monadnock. No appropriation is asked from this Congress, but simply that 

this money already appropriated and unexpended shall be used in putting the ide-armor on this vessel, o that it may be in the same condition as the other three monitors, which are on the Atlantic coast. The 

Senators from the Pacific coast unquestionably believe that this vessel 

should be put in the same condition as these others. 

M.l'. RANDALL. That is all very well; but the gentleman, as one 

of the Hou e conferee , knows that this bill as introduced and passed 

in this House was not only acceptable to the sLY members of the conference committee but it was read to the Secretary of the Navy himself and not dissented f1·om by him. 

l'rfr. CALKINS. I trust the gentleman will allow me to complete 

my statement. I do not dispute the proposition which he has submitted; his statement is true. But the Sena.te conferees have been voted 

down by the Senate. 

Mr. RANDALL. I do not know anything about that. 

111r. CAL~INS. Evidentlytheyhavebeen. Hereisthebillamended. 

The Senate declines to agree with its conferees. The conferees are 

not to blame for that. 

Mr. RANDALL_ I do not blame them. 

111r. REED. These bills are not pa ed by the conferees but by the 

two Houses. 

Mr. CALKINS. The Senate has a right at any time to decline to concur in the action of its conferees; and the House has a similar right. 

The statement of the gentleman from Pennsylvania is correct; but the 

Senate ha.S disagreed to the action of the conferee . 

The Senators from the Pacific coast evidently feel deeply on this subject. Now, in order to reach .an agreement as early as possible, and 

inasmuch as this proposition does not involve any new appropriation, 

but simply allows the appropriation already made and unexpended to 

be used upon the M:onadnock, now on the Pacific coast, I suggest to the 

House whether it would not be well to agree to this amendment propo ed by the Senate. 

Mr. RANDALL. I can not vary from what I consider I am bound 

by as a member of the conference committee. It never would have 

come in here outside of a conference report except that the conferees of 

the Senate asked for the change, and in this manner this· agreement was 

made. I therefore move to non-concur, and call the previous question. 

111r. CAL..KINS. , Will my colleague permit me a moment? 

Mr. R~DALL. I have no doubt when this is explained to the 

Senate, as I am advised thel'e was not a quorum present when it was 

agreed to, they will have to recede if they are bound by considerations 

of honor in reference to the agreement. I insist upon the previous question. 

Mr. CALKINS. I move to concur. 

The SPEAKER. A vote in the negative on the motion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania will be equivalent to the motionofthe gentieman from Indiana to concur. Mr. RANDALL. I think that motion, if the gentleman from Indiana will permit me to suggest, should be made by somebody else than 

a member of the conference committee. 

Mr. CALKINS. At the suggestion of the Speaker that a vote in the 

negative on the motion of my colleague on the committee is equivalent to the motion to concur, I will not make the motion, and the genUeman from Illinois who wishes to be heard can make the motion if 

he desire . The SPEAKER. If the motion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania is voted down, it will be equivalent to concurrence. Mr. HISCOCK. Before that question is submitted to the House I 

would like to ask this question, whether all of the conference reports 

which have been accepted here to-nightwere not considered together? 

Mr. RANDALL. Practically they were. 

Mr. HISCOCK. And the conferees on these bills acted upon them 

under an agreement upon this b1n as a part of the scheme, with a view to getting the two Houses together? 

111r. R~ALL. That is practically the case. 

Mr. HISuOCK. If that is the case I propose to stand by that agreement. 

Mr. BUDD. I move to concur in the amendment of the Senate for 

the purpose of getting a square vote of the House upon this question. 

The SPEAKER. As the Chair bas already stated, the gentleman from 

Pennsylvania has moved to non-concur. If that is voted down it is 

equivalent to concurrence. 

Mr. BUDD. Is not a negative vote on the motion to concur equivalent to an affirmative vote on the motion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania? 

The SPEAKER. It would be. The question is on ordering the 

previous question. 

The previous question. was ordered . 

The SPEAKER. The question is on the motion of the gentleman 

from Pennsylvania that the Hou e non-concur in the Senate amendment. 

The question was taken. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 52, noes 40. 
' 

= 

. 6154 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5, 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. I raise the question of no quorum 

in order that the gentleman from illinois [ Jr. CANNO .. ] may be heard 

for a short time. He wishes to be heard on this subject, and I make 

this point simply for the purpose of allowing him that privilege. 

1\Ir. RANDALL. If that point is made it will only succeed in stopping the na-val bill from going through. 

Mr. 1\ULLER, of Pennsylvania. I make the point of order for the 

reason stated, that no quorum has voted. 

The SPEAKER. The point of order being made that no quorum has 

voted, the Chair will appoint tellers. 

l\Ir. MILLER, of Pennsylvania, and Mr. RANDALLwere appointed 

tellers. 

Mr. CANNON. lf I may be permitted to make a suggestion with 

reference to this matter before the tellers are appointed, not upon the 

merits I will say to the gentleman from Pennsylvania that perhaps 

:five or' ten minutes :spent in this way ma.y possibly be time profitably 

spent. Mr. RANDALL. No; I think we had better go on with the vote. 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. You will have to tring a quorum 

here if you expect to ad upon this matter, unless that privilege is 

granted. 

1\Ir. CANNON. Just let me make .a single suggestion. 

Mr. BLACKBURN. I think this side of the House is voting under 

the impression that they a,re voting in accordan ~ with an agreement or 

an arrangement made on the part of the conference of the two Houses. 

If that is true, to make the point of no quorum will not answer any good 

purpose; because we will sustain that agreement if we have to stay here 

a week or a month. 

l\Ir. MILLER, ofPennsylvania. I must make the point of order for 

the reason I have stated. 

fu. CALKINS. Let me state that if there was any such agreement 

or arrangement it was not·communicated to me; for if such an agreement had been made I should certainly not be willing to depart from it. 

Mr. BLACKBURN. I am surethatthere is not a man in theworld 

who will come nearer to submitting to and carrying out an agreement 

than the gentleman from Indiana. But this -side of the House was informed that the motion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania was to 

carry out an agreement already made. 

Mr. CALKINS. I repeat, however, that if such an agreement was 

made-and I certainly do not wish to be understood as disputing itwith the other two gentlemen on the committee, I had no information further than as I have stated. 

Mr. BLACKBURN. And my friend knows that I would not impeach his purpose to carry out any agreement to which he was a party. 

But this side of the House has that information from the chairman of 

the committee. 

Mr. RANDALL. It was expected that this bill should go as it passed 

the House; that is, a it were, in the nature of a conference report. 

Mr. CALKINS. If the gentleman from Pennsylvania will pardon 

me for interrupting him, the only information he gave me, as I understand it, is that it had been submitted to the conference and the Senate 

conferees agreed to it. 

1\Ir. RANDALL. Yes. 

l\Ir. HORR. But that does not bind the Senate. 

Mr. RANDALL. Then they asked as a matter of agreement in conference that they should be allowed to report a disagreement entire, 

and that I was to introduce the bill here in the House, which I did, 

and with the statement if necessary that it did meet the approval of 

the entire conference. That is what I consider an understanding on 

theirpart. • Ur. CANNON. Will the gentleman from Pennsylvania yield to me 

for a moment? 

Mr. RANDALL. Yes, sir. 

ENROLLED BILL SIGNED. 

Mr. NEECE, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

they had examined and found truly enrolled a bill (H. R. 6770) making 

J appropriations for the consular and diplomatic service of the Govern- ment for the :fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, and for other purposes; 

when the Speaker signed the same. 

TEMPORARY N A V .AL BILL. 

Mr. CANNON. Mr. Speaker, I wish to say this in reference to this 

·matter. If I understand the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. RANDALL] it is that two of the conferees, the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HOLMAN] and the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. RANDALL], met 

the Senate conferees, :five in all. 

Mr. HOL~1AN. And the Secretary of the Navy. 

Mr. CANNON. And the Secretary of the Navy. But I was not 

aware that he belonged to either of the bodies. He made six; then and 

there, they having the naval bill under consideration, and no other, 

agreed among themselves that certain things should be done. Now, 

that agreement I suppose binds those gentlemen and covers the matters 

about which they agreed so far as they are personally concerned. And 

I suppose they are in honor bound in accordance with that agreement. 

But, sir, that does not bind me, and I say that I am j ustified in believing when this bill comes from the Senate with an amendment it 

shows so far as the Senateis.concerned that body has reversed the action 

of the Senate conferees. 

I wish to call attention to a remark that the gentleman from New 

York [Air. Cox) made a moment ago. I have respect for him as well 

a for the House conferees, and yet, sir, five gentlemen, two from the 

Hous ... and three from the Senate, with the SeC'retary of the Navy, can 

not billd me and can not bind the House or the Senate. If they undertake to make an agreement in a close corporation and then get the 

House al!d Senate by the ears, I object to it because I did not authorize them to make that kind of an agreement. 

Now, OD2 word, to see if I understand the fads a. bout the Monadnock. 

As I underst.and it, at the last Congress there wa appropriated in round 

numbers a million of dollars to do certain work on the four monitors, 

three on the Atlantic and one on the Pacific coast. The Secretary of 

the Navy made contracts and work was done on the three on the Atlantic coast. He had the power to make a contract to do the work on 

the monitor on the Pacific coa8t up to the 1st day of July to the extent 

of 174,000 that had tnot been expended. He has no power now to 

make any such eontract because the fiscal year has expired. And this 

only authorizes the Secretary of the Navy to make now a contract which 

he could have made prior to the 1st of July. It seems to me if those 

are the facts there is some propriety in our considering whether we will 

agree to this amendment or not. If it is proper we should agree, I do 

not feel, as one member of the House, that I am estopped by any agreement those five members and the Secretary of the Navy may have made. 

.Mr. BUDD. Mr. Speaker, understanding as Idothefacts stated by 

the last speaker, I feel in duty bound to insist on having the same 

amount of· justice done in regard to these monitors in regard to the 

Pacific coast that was done in regard to the Atlantic coast. We have no 

ironclads on the Pacific coast. We do not ask this Congress to appropriate one doll~r for the construction, repair, or finishing the Monadnock. 

We simply ask this Congress to let the matter alone, to let it stand as 

it did; that i , to allow the money appropriated by the last Congress to 

be expended in accordance with the law of the last Oongress. 

I dislike to antagonize anybody at this late hour of the session, but 

I think we should be granted the same amount of work under the appropriation already made that has been granted to the Eastern coast. 

We have no coast defenses. We have no ironclads. The money is 

on hand to be covered into the Treasury of the United States. We do 

not know whether we will ever get it out again, and this ironclad will 

go to rack and ruin unless so~e further work be done on it. I therefore ask gentlemen to allow the money now on hand to be expended in 

:finishing the monitor Monadnoc. I ask only that you shall mete out 

the same justice to us that has been received by the Atlantic coast, no 

more and no less. 

Mr. BURNES. I think I can make a statement with regard to this 

matter that will be entirely satisfa.ctory to both ides; at least I think 

it ought to be. This bill went to the Senate. There were one or two 

Senators hostile to it; and under their rules an objection would carry 

the bill over for another day. I think these conferees were acting in 

good faith. I feel confident of that; my association with them for a 

number of days past has given me confidence in them that they were 

doing the very best they could. In order to get this bill to its present 

stage they had to move along gently. They got it passed with this 

amendment. And now I feel confident that if this amendment is nonconcurred in the Senate will promptly recede. I was there when the 

debate took place and the proceedings were had. I consulted with 

some of the Senators and I feel confident that the agreement, the un-

.derstanding, with all of us will be carried out by the Senate if the bill 

is sent back. 

Mr. ROSECRANS. I desire to make a brief statement to the House 

on the subject before it. It will be remembered by members on the floor 

who were members of the Forty-seventh Congress that the discussion 

on the naval bill as to the appropriations for :finishing those ironclads 

was a sharp one, and that there have been two opinions and are now 

two opinions entertained as regards their usefulness. It is maintained 

by some that they never will answer as sea-going vessels. An4 

nobody pretends to denythattheywillanswer for harbor defense. We 

have a large amount of money in them. I stated .on the floor of the 

House on that occasion thatinasmuchas therewas a difference of opinion as to whether they would ever be useful or not, and as we had a 

large investment in them, it was safe to say it would be a prudential 

arrangement t& finish and try one of them, and if any one of them 

should be finished and tried that ought to be the one on the Pacific 

coast for the following reasons: 

First, we have no ironclads on that coast; and, secondly, in case the 

worst should happen-and that is that this vessel should prove unseaworthy in heavy eas-itwould answer as a harbor defense, neededand 

useful; andweshould then have established the propositionthateither 

they would answer for every purpose, as their friends and advocates believed, or, failing that we should have nearly their value for harbor 

defense in the Bay of San Francisco. I went to the Secretary of the 

Navy after I had made that st~tement on the floor of the House and 

told him what I had said, and he seemed to concur with me. And yet 

the money that we appropriate, instead of being applied to :finiAh one 

of them, has been divided among them all; and it so happens that the 

-

\ 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6155 

work on the three on the Atlantic coast has been forwarded and the 

money spent, while we have of the appropriation which put them in 

their present condition an unexpended balance: . . It will therefore follow from what I have sa1d if we ever finiSh any 

one of them the one that ought to be finished, so a to test the whole 

of them, is the Monadnock. That is the first proposition. And the 

second is that since the Navy Department has not done that, but has 

divided the money to be pent and spent it upon all, that portion of it 

which belongs to the Monadnock ought certainly to be allowed to be 

spent. , Mr. GLASCOCK. Will my colleague allow me to make a suggestion? 

Mr. ROSECRANS. ~rtainly. . 

Mr. GLASCOCK. We do not·ask for the expenditure of money for 

the purpose of finishing the Monadnock, but simply for the completion 

of the amount which remains of the unexpended bal~nce of the million of dollars given by the Forty-se>enth Congre for the purpo e of 

finishing the four double-turreted monitors, one of which is the Monadnock. The contracts have been let for putting the machinery in 

the monitors on the Atlantic coast, and the Monadnock now stands in 

a position of inequality with her isters in that no provision has been 

made for supplying her with machinery. All we ask of this House is 

that the amount left from that unexpended balance shall be applied to 

put machinery in the Monadnock, in order that she may be placed on 

an equal footing with her three sisters. 

Mr. RANDALL. I think there has been no illiberality to California or the Pacific coat. We have given them all they ask. 

Mr. BUDD. We have no complaint to make on that score. 

The SPEAKER. The previous question has been ordered on the motion of the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. RANDALL]. A vote 

Wa$ taken, and the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. MILLER] raised 

the point of no quorum. 

Mr. RANDALL. He made the point, insisting that the gentleman 

from Illinois [Mr. CANNON] might be permitted to speak. The gentleman from illinois has been allowed to speak. 

Mr. IDLLER, of Pennsylvania. The ground on which I made the 

point having been removed, I now withdraw it. 

Mr. BUDD. I demand tellers. 

Tellers were not ordered, only 27 members voting therefor-not onefifth of a quorum. 

The SPEAKER. Upon this question the ayes are 52 and. the noes 

-40. The ayes have it, and the motion of the gentleman from -:Pennsylvania that the House non-concur in the amendment of the Senate is 

agreed to. 

:Mr. RANDALL moved to reconsider the vote just taken; and also 

moved. that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

Mr. PETERS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

the committee had examined and found truly enrolled a joint resolution of the following title; when the Speaker signed the same: 

Joint resolution (H. Res. 286) for the payment of certain persons 

therein named for clerical services rendered the District of Columbia 

in making numerical and "assess" books. 

Mr. GLASCOCK, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

they had examined and found duly enrolled a bill of the following title; 

when the Speaker signed the same: 

A bill (H. R. 7380) making appropriations for sundry civil expenses 

of the Government for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, and for 

other purposes. 

ORDNANCE AND GUNNERY. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York [Mr. HiscOCK] 

asks 'unanimous consent tor the present consideration of the resolution 

which bas been read. Is there objection? 

Mr. HOLMAN. I think thegentleman fromNewYorksbould have 

consented to the i'e3olution I desired to have added. I think the facts 

sought to be obtall;led under that resolution would be valuable to ena- ble us to ascertain what other safeguardswerenecessary for the protection of the public moneys. 

I think it might have elicited information which would ·result in 

many legislative reforms touching the custody of the public funds. 

But the gentleman from New York is quite persistent in his oppo ition 

to it, and thinks it has some political purpose, and I do not feel justified in objecting to his resolution, which may result in obtaining much 

>alnable information for us. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to . the present consideration of 

the motion? 

- Mr. WELI.JER. I object. 

1,1r. HOLMAN. Oh, I would not object. 

Some time sub equently, 

Mr. WELLER withdrew his objection. 

There being no further objection, the resolution was received and 

adopted. 

Mr. HISCOCK moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution 

was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on 

the table. 

The lattermotion was agreed to. 

The SPEAKER announced the committee, as follows: l\1r. S.Al\ffiEL 

J. RANDALL of Pennsylvania, Mr. ABRAMS. HEwiTT of New York, 

Mr. J .A.M.ES N . BUR~"ES of l\1issouri, l\1r. CHARLES F. CRISP of Georgia, 

Ir. FRAKK HISCOCK of New York, l\Ir. THOMAS B. REED of Maine, 

and :Mr. WILLIAM WALTER PHELPS of New Jersey. 

ORDER OF HUSINE . 

l\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move that the House now adjourn. 

1\Ir. l\IILLER, of Pennsylvania. I move that when the House adjourns to-day it be to meet at 10 o'clock a. m. on l\Ionday next. 

Mr. HOLl\IA.l~. I suggest that there be a recess until10 o'clock a. m. Monday. 

WITHDRAWAL OF PAPERS. 

Mr. BLACKBURN asked and obtained unanimous consent for the 

withdrawal from the files of the House of the papers in the case of W. 

C. Humber. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Kentucky [l\1r. WHITE] 

moves that the House adjourn, and the gentleman from ..t>ennsylvania 

moves that when the House adjourns to-day it be to meet at 10 o'clock a. m. l\Ionday. 

Mr. RANDALL. I am adviSed by the Clerk that the legislative, 

executive, and judicial appropriation bill will probably be enrolled in 

fifteen minutes. I think we had better remain until that is reported 

from the Committee on Enrolled Bills. 

l\Ir. KASSON. It can be brought in in the morning. 

Mr. RANDALL. Very well; suit yourselves. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I modifY my motion so that the House 

shall adjourn until 10 o'clock a. m. l\Ionday. 

The SPEAKER. That can not be done except by unanimous consent, for a resolution of the House fixes the time of daily meeting at 11 

o'clock. The House could take a recess until10 o'clock. 

J,Ir. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. Then I will withdraw my motion 

that when the House adjourn it be to meet at 10 o'clock Monday, and 

move that the House take a recess until that time. 

The motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at 12 o'clock and 5 minutes a. m. 1\ionday, July 7) the House took a recess until10 o'clock. 

AFTER RECESS. 

The recess having expired, the House reassembled at 10 o'clock a. 

m. Monday, July 7, and was called to order by the Cler~ J,Ir. JoHN 

B. CLARK, Jr. 

The CLERK. In the temporary absence of the Speaker, the Clerk 

calls the House to order. 

Mr. RAND..d.LL. I move that the House take a recess for ten minutes. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The recess having expired, the House was again called to order by 

the Clerk. · 

ELECTION OF SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE. 

Mr. RANDALL. I submit the resolution which I send to the Clerk's 

desk. 

The resolution was read, as follows: 

Resn1 .. ed, That Hon. J. C. S. BLACKBUR ~, a. Representative from the State of 

Kentt!ky, be, and he is hereby, elected Speaker pro tempore during the present absence of the Speaker. 

The resolution was adopted. 

The CLERK. The resolution is adopted, and the gentleman from 

Kentucky [Mr. BLACKBURN] will take the chair. 

Mr. BLACKBURN (on taking the chair as Speaker pro tempore). 

Thanking the House for this compliment of its confidence, I will en- deavor to deserve it. 

1\:lr. RANDALL. I submit the resolution I send to the Clerk's desk. 

The resolution was read, as follows: 

Resolved, That the Clerk of the House be instructed to inform the Senate and 

President of the United States that the House has elected Hon. J. C. S. BLACKBURN, a. Representative from the State of Kentucky, Speaker pro tempore to serve during the present temporary absence ofHon. J. G. CARLISLE, Speaker. 

The resolution was adopted. 

ORDER OF BUSINES . 

Mr. THOMPSON. I ask unanimous consent to offer a resolution. 

The SPEAKER pm ternpore. Is there objection? 

Mr. STRAIT. I call for the regular order. 

Mr. THOl\IPSON. Will the gentleman let the resolution be read.? 

Mr. STRAIT. No; I call for the regular order. 

Mr. THOMPSON. I will say to the gentleman that it does not affect railroad interests at all. It is simply a resolution authorizing the 

Clerk of the House to pay the employes of the House their salary for 

this month immediately upon the adjournment of the session. 

Mr. STRAIT. I think we bad better have the regular order. 

ENROLLED BILL SIGNED. 

Mr. PERKINS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

. 
6156 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, 

the committee had examined and found truly enrl)lled a bill of the following title; when the Speaker pro tempore signed the same: 

A bill (H. R. 7069) making appropriations for the legislative, ex~ntive, and judicial expenses of the Government for the fiscal year ending 

June 30, 1885, and for other purposes. 

ORDER OF BUS:rnESS. 

Mr. GOFF. I move that the House go into Committee of the Whole 

for the purpose of considering enate pension bills which have been 

favorably reported in this House. 

Mr. DUNN. · I move that the House take a recess till half-past 11 

o'clock. · 

Mr. WELLER. I move an amendment so that there will be a recess for three minutes. I will say that I am as desirous as the gentleman from West Virginia [Mr. GOFF] can he to take up and pass pension 

bills; but I am satisfied the House will not permit it. . 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. The question i on the motion for a 

recess, which is not debatable. 

Mr. GOFF. There are only about twenty of these Senate bills upon 

the Calendar. P .A Y OF HOlJSE IDIPLOYEs. 

Mr. PERKINS. I hope the gentleman from Arkansas [Mr. DUNN] 

will withhold his motion for a ft~w moments. I wish to submit a resolution. If the gentleman will listen to the reading I think he will 

have no objection. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

Resolved, That the Clerk of the HouseofRepresentativesbe,andhe is hereby, 

authorized and directed to pay to the officers and employes of the House borne upon the annual roll their respective compensations for the month of July, 

1884, as soon as pradicable after the a.<ljournment of this ses ion of Congress. 

Mr. DUNN. I withdraw mv motion in order that this resolution 

may be acted upon. ~ 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the . present consideration of the resolution? 

Mr. HOLMAN. I presume there will be no objection, but I desire 

to offer an amendment, or, if necessary, a eparate resolution, to place 

upon the roll two colored men who are employes of the Honse. 

Mr. THOMPSON. I think the gentleman's proposition with reference to those two men is very proper and ought to be adopted. 

Mr. PERKINS. I hope the resolution I have submitted will be 

acted upon at once. If anything further be necessary it can be adopted 

afterward. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair does not understand that 

the cases referred to by the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HOLMAN] 

are embraced in the present resolution. 

Mr. PERKINS. If there are other employes who should be provided for, of course I have no objection. . 

Mr. HOLMAN. I hope my resolution w:ill be admitted at once. 

tlr. ·PERKINS. I have no objection whatever. I supposed my 

resolution was broad enough to include all the employes of the Honse. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I ask the Clerk to read. the resolution which I send 

to the desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, That the Doorkeeper be directed to place the names of James Hall 

and Charles Carter on the roll as laborers at the Hou e water-closet as provided 

for that place. 

M:r. PERKINS. I am willing to accept that as an amendment. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman can not accept it. It 

is in the nature of a separate resolution. If there be no objection this 

resolution ofthe gentleman from Indiana will be first entertained. 

There being no objection, the resolution of Mr. HoLMAN was considered and adopted. · 

The question being then taken on the resolution of Mr. PERKINs, it 

was agreed to. 

:Mr. DUNN. I now renew my motion for a recess until half past 11 

o'clock. 

The motion was agreed to, there being-ayes 36, noes 19. 

The Honse accordingly (at 10 o'clock and 20 minutes a. m.) took a 

recess until 11 o'clock and 30 minutes a. m. The recess having expired, the Honse resumed its session. 

ERROR IN ENROLLMENT. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. An amendment of the Senate to the 

consular and diplomatic appropriation bill having been omitted in the 

enrollment of the bill, the Chair desires to submit to the HonseMr. RANDALL. Is there a message from the Senate in relation to 

this matter? If not, had we not better wait for such a message? I 

learn that the Senate has taken some action upon the question. I suggest that we delay action until the message from the Senate is received, 

o that the action on the part of the House may be in harmony with 

that of the Senate. 

The SPE:AKER pro tempore. The Chair will state to the gentleman 

from Pennsylvania that as the bill originated in the House, and it does 

appear that this omission of an amendment has been discovered since 

. the bill was sent to the President, the Chair simply desires to call the 

attention of the House to the fact. 

Mr. RANDALL. The chairman of the subcommittee who had that 

bill in charge [l\Ir. BURNES] is not here now. I ask that thi matter 

be allowed to rest until he comes in. 

The SPEAKER pro twpm·e. That will be done. 

PENSION BILLS. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The House now resumes the consideration of the regular order, and the pending question i the motion of 

the gentleman from West Virginia [Mr. GOFF] that the House proceed to the consideration of Senate pension bills. 

M:r .. HOLMAN. Let me suggest, .Mr. Speaker, that whatever i done 

in this matter must be done by unanimou consent, and I sugg t that 

that unanimous ..consent be so modified a to include also the consideration of pension bills in the Hotise. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection tbattho e bills shall 

also be included? 

Mr. McMILLIN. Is it to be considered that this unanimous conent embraces private or public bills? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The motion of the gentleman from 

West Virginia is that unanimous consent shall be granted for the consideration of Senate bills in Committee of the Whole on the Private 

Calendar which have heen favorably reported by the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

:Mr. McMILLIN. I think that is entirely proper, but in the same 

connection I ask that the unanimous consent shall al o embrace three 

or four bills now on the Speaker's table which have come from the 

Committee of the Whole Honse on the Private1Calendar with a favorable reCommendation. They have been lying upon the Speaker's table 

for six or seven weeks because of a personal explanation, and have not 

been acted on during the time when the consideration of pen ion bills 

was in order. They have been acted on by the Committee of the Whole 

Honse on the Private Calendar, reported for favorable action, and they 

ought to be disposed of. 

Mr. 1riiLLS. I move that the Committee of the Whole House on t~e 

state of the Union be discharged from thefurtherconsiderationofthose 

Senate bills referred to by the gentleman from West Virginia, and that 

they be con idered in the Hou e. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Thatissubstantiallythemotion ofthe 

gentleman from West Virginia [Mr. GoFF]. 

Mr. l\Icl\IILLIN. And as I understand, the motion is also to include 

the Honse bills reported from the Committee of the Whole House on 

the Private Calendar. 

The PEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman from West Virginia 

accept the suggestion of the gentleman from Tennessee? 

l\Ir. GOFF. I do. 

Mr. WELLER. Mr. Speaker does the motion contemplate the consideration of the bills coming from the Senate, some twenty in number? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The motion contemplates the consideration of the Senate pension bills which have been reported by the 

Committee on Invalid Pensions of this Hou e and are now in Committee of the Whole Honse on the Private Calendar. 

l\Ir. WELLER. I am 'satisfied the Honse shall consider tho e bills. 

Mr. WILLIS. It is also the understanding that the bills reported 

from the Committee of the Who1e House on the Private Calendar, and 

which are now on the Speaker's table, shall also be included in the 

arrangement. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It :is, as that suggestion of the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. McMILLIN] bas been accepted by the gentleman from West Virginia. 

Mr. GOFF' resolution as modified was then adopted. 

P .A Yl\fENT OF HOUSE EMPLOYEs. 

Mr. PERKINS, by unanimous consent, introduced a joint resolution 

(H. Res. 287) providing for the immediate payment of officers and employes of. the House of R_epresentatives; which wa read a first and 

second time. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, &c., That the Clerk of the House of Representatives be, and he is 

hereby, authorized and directed to _pay to the officers and employes of the · House borne on the annual roll therr respective compensation, including the 

Capitol police, for the month of July, 1884., as soon as practicable after the adjournment of this session of Congre s. 

· Mr. UcUILLIN. I understand the object of this is to pay these 

emplo~s who are entitled to it under the law at the adjournment instead of at the end of the month. 

Mr. PERKINS. That is it, and it can only be done by joint resolution. 

Mr. THOUPSON. I hope the gentleman will permit me to amend 

there olution by including the pages, who will have some eight days' 

pay due them. 

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman accept that as a modification 

of his resolution? 

1\fr. PERKINS. .Although I am of the opinion it is unnecessary, 

still if the gentleman insists upon it I will allow the amendment to 

<:orne in. 

Mr. THOUPSO~. Iwillnotembarrasstberesolution, but will bring 

in another to cover the case after this has been adopted. 

The joint resolution was ordered to be engrossed and read a third 
1884. CON.GRESSION AL RECORD-SEN ATE. 6157 

time; and being engro ed, it was accordingly read the third time, and 

passed. Mr. PERKINS moved to reconsider the vote by which the joint resolution w~s passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

PAGE . 

Mr. THOMPSON. I submit the following resolution. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, &c., That the Clerk of the House of Representatives be, and he is hereby, a.uthorized and directed to pay to the pages of the House the balance of pay they would be entitled to for the month of July out of the contingent fund of the Hou e, to be immediately available. . 

There was no objection, and the resolution was adopted. 

Mr. THOMPSON moved to reconsider the vote by which the resolution was adopted; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid 

on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. WELLER. I rise to a question of order. Under the under· 

standing reached pension bills are now in order; and, if so, I ask that 

their consideration be at once proceeded with. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The Chair will state the clerks are now busily engaged in arranging the bills so that there may be Iio confusion 

or delay in reporting and acting upon them. 

Mr. McMILLIN. I suggest while the clerks are arranging the bills 

that under the order just adopted the House first proceed to the con- sideration of the bills coming from the Committee of the Whole House 

on the Private Calendar, and now lying upon the Speaker's table under 

the recommendation that they be pas ed. . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is informed the clerks are.' 

now ready to proceed to the consideration of the Senate bills from which 

the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar were discharged, including only the Senate bills favorably reported by the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

PENSION BILLS PASSED. 

The following Senate bills reported favorably by the Committee on 

Pensions and Invalid Pensions, and referred to the Committee of the 

Whole House on the Private Calendar, were severally considered, the 

Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar di charged from 

their further consideration, and the bills read a first and second time, 

ordered to a third reading, read the third time, and passed, namely: 

A bill (S. 773) granting a pension to Mrs. Kady Brownell; . A bill ( . 547) granting a pension to John C. ~. Beyland, of New 

York· i 

A bill ( . 1339) granting a pension to Frank Gray; 

A bill ( . 1641) for the relief of the widow of Edward U. Wilkins; 

and 

A bill (S. 1363) granting a pension to FrankS. Hillard. 

1\IES AGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, announced 

that the Senate had passed without amendment the bill (H. R. 4297) 

for the relief of Henrietta M. Sands. 

The message further announced that the Senate had appointed l\Iessrs. 

SHEIDI.AN and BAYARD to join such committee a 'may be appointed 

by the Hou e to wait upon the President of the United States and inform him that Congress having concluded its business is ready to close 

its ession by adjournment .. 

CO~ UL.AR .AND DIPLOM.ATIC .APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Mr. BURNES. l\Ir. Speaker, I desire now to call up a resolution in 

regard to the enrollment of the consular and diplomatic appropriation 

bill. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The resolution will be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved bytheHouseof Represl'!l;tatives (tlu Senate concurring), That the Presi- dent be requested to return to the House of R~resentatives, in which it originated, the bill (H. R. 6770) making appropriations for the consular and diplo- matic service of the Government for the fiscal year ending June 30,1885, and for other purposes. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state that this is done 

in order to correct an omission made in the enrollment of the bill. 

The resolution was agreed to. 

1\IE .AGE FRO::\! TH~ S]J:Y.ATE. 

A message from the Senate, by l\Ir. McCooK, its Secretary, an- nounced that the Senate receded. from its amendment to the bill making temporary provision for the naval service of the Government. [Applause.] 

PENSIO~ BILLS P .ASSED. 

Under the previous order of the House, the Committee of the Whole 

House on the Private Calendar was discharged from the further con- sideration of Senate pension bills of the following titles; and the same were severally considered, read a first and second time, ordered to a third reading, read the third time, ;:md pa ed, namely: 

A bill (S. 280) granting a pension to Wesley Morford; 

A bill (S. 1566) granting a pension to Martha Bastin; 

• A bill (S. 284) granting a pension to Henry J. Seward; 

A bill (S. 1227) granting a pension to Capt. Israel Stongh; 

A bill (S. 1225) granting a pension to l\Iary Hopperton, widow of Edward Hopperton; 

A bill (S. 2244) granting a pension to James Brown; 

A bill (S. 464) granting a pension to James P. F. Toby; 

A bill (S. 461) granting a pension to Warren Croan; 

A bill (S. 912) granting a pension to Henry A. Armstrong; 

A. bill (S. 1430) granting a pension to Sarah C. Hall; and 

A bill (S. 1444) granting a pension to William J. Hess. 

Mr. GOFF moved to reconsider the votes by which the various Senate pension bills were passed; and also moved that the motion toreconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. RANDALL. I move that the House do now adjourn. 

Several ME:MBERS. Why at this hour? 

Mr. RANDALL. The reason is I find for the :fi.rsttimethismorning 

that we are now in the legislative day of Saturday, July 5, and it is 

necessary that the House should adjourn so as to be actually in Monday's session, which will have to be done by consent at this hour. It 

is necessary to relieve onr proceedings from confusion of dates. 

The motion was agreed to by unanimous consent; and aecordingly 

(at 11 o'clock and 58 minutes a.m., Monday, July 7) the House adjourned. 

PETITIONS, ETC. 

The following petitions and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk, 

under the rule, and referred as follows: 

By Mr. BINGHAM: Petition of Horatio I. Kurtz and others, mem- bers of the Grand Army of the Republic, of Philadelphia, Pa-4 for the 

establishment and maintenance of a national cemetery near Philadelphia for the remains of the Union soldiers of the late war-to the 

Committee on Appropriation. . By Mr. S. S. COX: Memorial of Nathaniel McKay, relative to monitor l\fiantonomoh-to the Committee on Naval Affairs. 

By l\Ir. W. R. COX: Petition of W. H. Chambler and 43 others, of 

James W. Hilliard and others, of W. L. Crocker and 55 others, and of 

W. W. Rogers and 57 others, all of Wake Councy, North Carolina, urging national aid to education-severally to the Committee on Edu('.ation. 

By Mr. DINGLEY: Remonstrance of E. K. O'Brien and others, 

against Government postal-telegraph system-to the Committee on the 

Post-Office and Post-Roads. 

By l\Ir. KEIFER: Petition of E. Sherrett and 46 others, favoring 

the passage of certain bills in the interest of soldiers, sailors, &c.-to 

the Select Committee on Payment of Pensions, Bounty, and Baek Pay. 

By Mr. KEIFER: . Preample and resolutions of Powell Post, No. 

381, Grand Army of the Republic, of Tremont City, Ohio, in favor of 

additional and more liberal legislation in the interest of soldiers and 

sailors of the late war-to the Committee on the Payment of Pensions, 

Bounty, and Back Pay. . • 

By 1\lr. LOVERING: Petitionsof4,000 citizens and oldiersnotmembers of the Grand Army of the Republic, for the passage of H. R. 6463, 

granting a pen ion of per month to all honorably discharged officers, soldiet , and sailors who served in the Union Army during the 

late war ot the rebellion-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By Mr. McCOMAS: Petitionrelatingtotheclaimof John D. Keedy, 

of Louisa McCollister, and of Ramsay Robb Lees-severally to the 

Committee on W M Claims. 

By Mr. PRICE: Petition of F. ::M:. Smart and 70 others, of l\Ierrillon, 

Wis., for the passage of the Lovering pension bill (H. R. 6463)-to 

the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By l\1r. POLAND : Resolutions of Dndley Post, Grand Army of the 

Republic, of Arlington, Vt., for legislation about pensions-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

SENATE. 

MONDAY, July 7, 1884. 

The Senate met at 10 o'clock a.m. The Chaplain, Rev. E. D. HUNTLEY, D. D., offered the following 

prayer: 

0 Thou, whose watchful care has kept us to this day, we come once more to worship in Thy presence. And as we attempt to voice our thanks for all Thy kindness, we pray Thee to accept the utterances 

which we are conscious fail to express the gratitude we feel. . 

Whichever way we look we are met by evidences of Thy favor. 

Surely ' goodness and mercy have follo.wed us all th~ days of our lives. 

We have been unworthy of Thy kindness, and confess to have made a lamentably poor use of many God-given opportunities. But "Thou 

hast not dealt with us after our sins, nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. ' Death ha not been permitted to enter the Senatorial 

ranks during this lengthy session, and those of our number who came here with impaired vigor have been so blessed of Thee that feebleness 

.