8114 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE; AUGUST 30; 

or a million and a half dollars and construct a gun at a very large ex- penditure, and furnish the ammunition and put it in position for test 

in order to take the chance of possibly getting a contract -to construct a number of gun~. 

These were the objections I had, and I repeat that my conviction 

is that every interest in this country requires that it should be in a 

better condition of defense, that it should have a better navy, tha~ it 

should strengthen its fortifications, that it should P!Ovide more and 

better guns, and more and better material of every kind for the defense 

of the conn try. 

The Senator from Kansas thinks that there is no danger that there 

will ever be a hostile shot fired here. I think it is assuming a very 

great responsibility for the lawmakers of this country, for those who 

have charge of the dearest interest-a of this country, to assume that 

with.all the complications which surround us, with our position in the ·world, with our position as a nation, .being mixed up with all the commercial and political relations of the world, that there will be no hostile shot fired. I trust that may be so. No one would dread ·more than I would dread to see a war inaugurated. No one would go further 

than I would, on terms of honor and propriety, to avoid a war. · But 

if we would avoid it, we ought to havethatso-rtofstatesmanship, that 

sort of prescience, that sort of knowledge which would qualify us to 

prepare for such contingencies .and to sustain oar negotiations by the 

proper means of sustentation. 

As I had occasion to- say once before here, I believe unorganized 

power, I care not how great it is, is totally inefficient in the presence 

of organized power. A great Government like ours, charged with the 

responsibility which it has of protecting the population and the interests which it must protect, owes it to itselft owes it to its people, owes 

it to .every interest, if it would place itself in the position of a first-class 

power of the earth, to enforce the principles of right, which are neces- sary to the protection of its people and its honor. It is for that reason 

tllat it seems to me the committee ought to make more efficient provision for securing the construction of guns. 

FORT WALLACE RESERVATION. 

Mr. PLUMB. Before moving an adjournment, I desire ro present a conference report. . · The PRlf..SIDING OFFICER. The conference report will be re- ceived and read. · 

The Chief Clerk read as follows: 

The committee of -conference on the di.l!agreeing votes of the two- Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 8310) to provide for the disposal of the Fort Wallace military reservation in Kansas, having met, after full 

and free con:ference have agreed to reco.mmend and do recommend to their re- spective Houses as follows: · That the Senate recede from its amendments numbered 2, 3,4, and 5. That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 1, and agree to the same -with an amendment as follows: In lieu of the matter stricken out by said·Senate amendment insert the following: 

"SEc. 2. That the Union Pacific Railroad Company is hereby granted the pref- erence right, for the period of three months after the appraisement herein pro- vided for, to purchase the southeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 

24, township 13 south, range 39 west, and fractional blocks 44, 49, 50, 51, 36, and 

48, according to the town plat of the city of Wallace, the same being now occu- pied by said railroad company for depot a.n.d other purposes, at 830 per acre.'' 

And the Senate agree to the same. P.B.PLUMB, 

H. M; TELLER, 

JAMES H. BERRY, 

Managers on the part of the Senate. 

WM. S. HOLMAN, 

J. E. WASHINGTON, E. J. TURNER, 

Manager• on the part of the HO'!Ut. 

Mr. PLUMB. I move the adoption of the report. 

The report was concurred in. 

AMENDMENTS TO BILLS. 

Mr. C~, Mr. TURPIE, and Mr. PLUMB submitte-d amendments 

intended to be proposed by them, respectively, to the general deficiency 

appropriation bill; which were referred to the Comin.ittee on .Ap-propriations, and ordered to be printed. 

Mr. BECK submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him 

to the general deficiency appropriation bill; which was ref'erred to the 

Committee on Appropriations, and ordered to be printed. 

.ADMISSION OF W .ASHINGTON. 

Mr. PLUMB. Now I move• the Senate adJourn. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Before submitting the motion, the 

Chair will lay before the Seriate the unfinished business, the title of 

which will be reported. 

The C.HIRF CLERK. "A bill {S.l2) to provide for the formation and 

admission into the Union of the State of Washington, and for other 

pmposes.'' 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The qnesti.on now is on the motion 

of the Senator from Kansas that the Senate adjourn. 

The motion was agreed to; and (at 5 o'clock and 38 minutes p. m.) 

the Senate adjourned until to-morrow, Friday, August 31, 1888, at 12' 

o'clock m. 

' . , HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 

THURSDAY, August 30, 1888. 

The House met at 12 o'clock m. Prayer by Rev . .J. H. CUTHDERT, 

D.D. .• 

The .Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

JACOB BLOOMSTEIN VS. THE UNITED STATES. 

The SPEAKER laid before th:e Honse a letter from the assistant 

clerk of the Cour~ of Claims, transmitting findings of fact by the court 

in the case of .Jacob ffioomstein vs. The United States; which was re- ferred to the Committee on War Claims. 

COMMITTEE SERVICE. 

. The SPEAKER also laid before the House the following communica- aon: . 

WASHINGTON, ..4:u{l1L8t 29, 1888. 

Sm: I hereby tender my resignation as a member of the Committee on the 

Pacific Railroads, and also as a. member of the Committee on Coinage, Weightl;J, 

and 1\Ies.snres. I reqnest that the· resignation be accepted. Very respectfully, 

Hon. JoJiN G. CARLISLE, 

CHARLES TRACEY. 

· Speaker Howe of .Repre3enfati1JU. · 

The SPEAKER. If there be no objection, the request of the gentleman from New York will be acceded to, and he will be excused from 

further service on these committees. 

There was no objection. 

SEN ATE BILL REFERRED. 

The SPEAKER also laid before the Honse the bill (S. 32:34) to abolish circuit-court powers of certain district courts of the United States, 

and for other purposes; which was referred to the Committee on the· .Judiciary. 

LEA. VES OF ABSENCE. 

By unanimous consent, leave of absence WM ~ranted as follows: 

To Mr. WILKINS, indefinitely, on account of very important business. 

To Mr. LA.IDLA w, for ten days, on account of important business. 

To Mr. BREWER, indefinitely, after Tuesday next, on account of important business. 

To Mr. BYNUM. for fifteen days, from Saturday, September 1. 

Mr. GALLINGER. Mr. Speaker, I desire to ask leave of absence 

for myself for fifteen days. 

The SPEAKER. Without objection, the leave of absence will be 

granted. 

There was no objection. -

Mr. WISE. I also wish to ask leave of absence from Monday next 

for sixteen days. 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? 

There was no objection. 

PRINTING OF CERTAIN TESTIMONY. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Michigan [Mr. FoRD], the 

chairman of the select committee on the alleged violation of the law as to the importation of contract labor,· etc., asks that an order be made 

to print the testimony so far as taken by that committee. The Chair 

will state that the request of the gentleman doos not specify the num- ber of copies to be printed. 

1tfr. FORD. The request _is ro print the usual number of copies; 

1,900, I believe. 

Mr. BUTTERWORTH. To be distributed amongst the members? 

The SPEAKER. They will be printed of course for the use of the 

House. 

Mr. RICHARDSON. Inorderthatthere maybeno misunderstand .. ing, I would suggest to the gentleman from Ohio that when an order 

is made to print in this manner the number printed do not go to mem- bers by the usual method of distribution. . 

The SPEAKER. They do not of course go ro members as other 

documents which are printed for the use of the members; but they go 

into the document-room, where they are accessible to the members. 

Mr. BRUMM. I think in a. case of this importance there onght to 

be some understanding that the members shall each have the right to 

go there and secure a copy. . Mr. BUTTERWORTH. That is a very pertinent suggestion. It 

not infrequently happens that members go to the document-room to secure copies of documents and find them exhausted . Mr. RICHARDSON. That is the reason I Bllggested to the gentle- man from Ohio that when the order is made to print the usual num- . be.r of copies they are not distributed pro rata. amongst the members. 

· If it is designed that they shall go to the members it is necessary to 

introduce the resolution in another form; and I would suggest in this 

case that it had better go to the Committee on Printing, if that is the 

purpose. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will state that if the -resolution is 

referred to tbe Committee on Printing it ean report the cost of printing an extra number for distribution amongst the memhers. 

If there be no· objection, the request of the gentleman from Michigan will be acceded to and the usual number printed in this case. There was no objection. 
1888. OONGRESSIONAL ·BEOORD-HOUSE. 8115 

Mr. TOWNSHEND. If this should be referred to the Committee on Printing, would they have the right to repo.rt at any time? 

The SPEAKER. They have that right under the rule. 

Mr. FORD. I wish to make a parliamentary inquiry, as t-o whether 

or not, in order to print more than the usual number allowed by the 

rule, it will not be necessary to introduce a concurrent resolution? 

The SPEAKER. It is if the cost exceeds $500. But the Committee on Printing can ascertain and report that fact. 

Mr. FORD. My only object was, that after the matter was set up 

and the plates were stereotyped w·e could then determine how many 

extra copies were needed. This order as made will cover 1,900 copies, 

and then a concurrent resolution can be introduced if extra copies are desired. 

Mr. SPRINGER. The custom is to print the usual number as suggested by the gentleman from Michigan first, and then introduce a reso- lution to print extra copies. 

The SPEAKER. This resolution, the Chair understands, is not objected to; but it would be necessary to introduce a resolution and refer 

the matter tQ the Committee on Printing if that course is desired. 

Mr. RICHARDSON. If the gentleman from Michigan will giveme 

his attention for a moment, I will state that it is not customary to send a req nest of this character to the Committee on Printing when the usual 

number of copies is simply desired. They are printed in the natural 

order under the rule. , 

The SPEAKER. The resolution has not been sent to the Committee on Printing. It has been agreed to by the House~ 

M:r. RICHARDSON. That only calls for the usual number of copies. 

The SPEAKER. _ It does; and a resolution to print an extra num- ber w:ould necessarily go to the Committee on Printing. 

Mr. BUTTERWORTH. Before this matter is disposed of, I wish to 

call attention to the fact that in the distribution of such documents 

it is our experience that after the usual number is printed and sent to 

the document-room it is impossible to get a copy. 

A MEMBER. There is no way to prevent that. 

Mr. BUTTERWORTH. Oh, yes there is, if it is provided that at 

least one copy shall be reserved for each member. 

Mr. BRUMM. That ought to be done. 

Mr. BLOUNT. Is it not perfectly competent for the House to direct the superintendent of the document-room to apportion those that are ordered to be printed among the members? 

The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks that the rule of the House and 

the statute prescribe what distribution shall be made of the usual number of copies. The House can not change that except by changing the 

law. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I ask unanimous consent that the superintendent of 

the document-room be directed to apportion among the members pro 

rata. the document just ordered to be printed. 

Mr. BUTTERWORTH. That is fair. 

Mr. RICHARDSON. According to the rule, some of these have to 

go to the Senate document-room as well a'! to the House document-room. 

Mr. FORD. What are you going to do with the 600 copies of the 

regular order? . 

Mr. SPRINGER. Under the rules of the House, as members well 

know, they can have a copy sent to them by ordering it from the PublicPrinter. The rules formerly required that the Public Printer should 

send one copy of these documents to each of the members. We changed 

that, because we found that a great number of these documents accu- mulated in our rooms, and now there are only eleven copies of them 

left in the folding-room. . If we want extra copies they can be obtained 

under a resolution which can be referred to the Committee on Printing. , Mr. BLOUNT. I wish to ask the gentleman fro~ Tennessee (M1·. 

RICHARDSON] what are the difficulties ahoutappoTtioning the number 

assigned to the House among the members of the House? 

Mr. SPRINGER. It changes existing law. 

l\1r. BLOUNT. But it does not change existing law. Why is it not 

perfectly competent to direct the officer in charge of these documents, 

or the superintendent of the folding-room, to dispose of the number as- signed to the House bydistributingthemamongt:Qemembersprorata? 

Mr. BU'ITERWORTH. That is just and proper. -

Mr. SPRINGER. · That only leaves eleven copies in the folding- room. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I ask unanimous consent that that be done in this case alone. 

Mr. RICHARDSON. That the number which is assigned to the 

House document-room shall be divided among the members? 

Mr. BLOUNT. Yes; pro rata. . 

Mr. RICHARDSON. I see no objection to that; but I should take 

it, Mr. Speaker, that in view of the importance which seems to attach 

to this publication it will be followed by a concurrent resolution to 

print extra copies beyond the regular number. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I have no doubt of that. 

Mr. RICHARDSON. I am informed by the chairman .of the com- mittee [Mr. FORD] that that will be done, and a resolution will be introduced for that purpose. It will be reported back immediately. The 

plates will be made for the usual number, and when. that resolution is 

passed the · Public Printer will have the stereotype plates ready, and 

then they ca.n be printed off immediately. 

Mr. BLOUNT. Still I think there would be no harm. in the first 

publication going to the members. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I will state the objection to my friend. The 

11umber that goes to the document-room is intended to be for the per, 

manent supply for this House. Some years hence, say ten years from 

now, a debate may spring up upon this question, and members might 

want to obtain this publication from the document-room. 

Mr. FORD. Bnt there are 100 copies which go to the Clerk for that 

purpose. The.600 copies that go to the document-room are for distribution to members of this House. 

Mr. BLOUNT. That is all I ask. 

Mr. SPRINGER. One copy to each member? 

Mr. BLOUNT. Then I modify my requestsothatthere may be one copy sent to each member of the House by the Public Printer. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. CRISP). Is there objection to the 

proposition of the gentleman from Georgia? [After a pause.] The 

Chair hears none. 

The motion '\YRS accordingly adopted. 

Mr. BLOUNT moved to reconsider the vote by which the resoiution 

was adopt-ed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider lie on the 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ENROLLED BILLS. 

Mr. KILGORE, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that 

they had examined and found duly enrolled bills and a joint resolution 

of the following titles: · 

A bill (H. R. 1661) for the erection of an appraisers' warehouse in 

the city of New York, and for other purposes; 

A bill (H. R. 5516) for the relief of John H. Weeks; and 

Joint resolution (H. Res. 201) to correct an error in the act making an appropriation for the Department of Agriculture for the fiscal year 

ending June 30, 1889, and for ot~er purposes. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I ask unanimous consent that the order calling 

committees may be dispense{l with to-day, and that members having 

reports to submit may file them with the Clerk of the House. 

lli. HOOKER. I object. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Regular or~er. 

. CORRECTION OF THE RECORD. 

Mr. YOST. Mr. Speaker, I rise to correct the RECORD. On page 

8790 of the RECORD of Tuesday last there is a matter which I desire to 

correct: It would be proper to state that I would have made thiscorrection earlier, but my colleague from :Virginia [Mr. WISE] was not in 

his seat .on Tuesday last, and I did not see him in his seat yesterday 

until after the House had gone into the Committee of the Whole. I 

desired that he should be present when I made the correction. 

After the second line he states '' there were only sixteen Democrats 

and :fi.:.fteen Revublicans against it." I interjected there "twelve Re-. publi~ns against it and twenty-three for it;" but the Reporter did 

not catch the remark owing to the great confusion in the House. I 

desire that it should go in there now. 

Mr. WISE. If you stated "twelve" as the number of the Repub· 

licans, and I said'' .fifteen,'' you are correct. I did not mean to make a misstatement. I gave the names, which show there were "twelve." 

Mr. YOST. I said there were twelve Republicans against it and 

twenty-three for it. 

Mr. WISE. That is correct. 

Mr. YOST. One thing further. I desire to send to the Clerk's desk 

the RECORD of Tuesday, and have him read the paragraph I have 

marked. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Mr. WISE. Now, Mr. Chairman, in all honor and fairness, do you not think 

it is audacity to have the gentleman from Virginia. [Mr. YosT] come here, hard 

pressed in his canvass, and, in order that he may have ammunition, with this 

record staring him in the face, endeavor to make a party question of the Blair 

bill? I do profess that I would not be guilty of a. lie; and I believe the man who practices a fraud is guilty of a lie. I would not be guilty of a. lie for my seat here. I would not hold it, if I were capable of perpetrating a. lie. I want to make no false impression. I do not want it to go forth to my people that all 

Democr.a.ts are in favor of the Blair bill. I know they are not; neither are the 

Republicans. This is nota. party.question. . The man who attempts to make it a. party question is eillier in a. state of 

ignorance or worse. He is willing to sac1ifice the cause for a. political, party 

purpose . . I was once prosecutor in my district, and of all crimes in the cata- logue I hated that of false pretense worse than any other. To the bold, brave 

highwayman, who would come and demand your purse, you might give some portion of your adlniration for his courage. But the small man and the sneakthiefwho filches money by false pretenses excites your disgust. Mr. Chairman, I li.k:.e the bold, brave, manly- A MEMBER. Highwayman. Mr. WISE. Statesman, who honestly· follows his principles anywhere and 

everywhere, and who would scorn to profit by a false impression. I thank the House kindly for its attention . . 

Mr. YOST. !desire to ask my colleague whether th~ remarks which 

have just been read were intended to reflect upon me personally, or 

whether they were used in a general sense. 
8116 CONGRESSIONAL ·RECORD-HOUS~. , AUGUST 30, 

Mr. BLAND. I make the point that no question of privilege is presented to the Honse. 

Mr. WISE. I did not iutend to reflect personally upon my colleague. 

1\fr. YOST. That is all I desired t.o ask. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Missouri [Mr. 

BLAND] makes the point that no question of privilege is presented to 

the House. 

Mr. PAYSON. The matter is all settled between the gentlemen. 

RELIEF FROM CHARGES OF DESERTION. 

Mr. STEELE. I ask unanimous consent that there. be a reprint of 

the bill (H. R. 61061 for the relief of certain volunteer soldiers of the 

late war. The edition already printed bas been exhausted. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore.. There being no objection, the order 

will be made. 

MRS. GENERAL W .ARD B. BURNETT. 

Several members called for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The regular order is the consideration 

of two bills which, by previous order of the House, were postponed 

until to-day immediately after the reading of the Journal. 

Mr. STRUBLE. In regard to the first of those bills-the bill (S. 

681) to increase the pension of Mrs. General Ward B. Burnett-it was 

especially agreed that its consideration should not interfere with the 

bill now pending for the organization of Oklahoma. I had sincerely 

hoped that this pension bill might be disposed of this morning, but in 

Yiew of the fact that it conflicts with the bill already pending, I ask, 

a.s a further favor at the hands of the Honse, that Senate bill No. 681 

may be allowed to be called up for consideration during the session of 

Thursday next. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from fowa [Mr. STRUBLE] asks unanimous consent that the consideration of the bill (S. 681) 

to increase the pension of Mrs. General Ward B. Burnett be postponed 

for one week. 

Mr. HOOKER. I object. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I move, then, that .the further consideration of 

the bill be postponed until one week from to-day. 

The motion was agreed to. 

MARGARET STAFFORD WORTH. 

Mr. DOCKERY. I Mk unanimous consent that a similar order of 

postponement be made with reference to the other bill fixed for consideration this morning-the bill (S. 867) granting a pension to Margaret Stafford Worth. . 

Mr. CHEADLE. I hope that the same order may be made with 

reference to this bill as was made just now in the other case. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Missouri [Mr. 

DocKERY] asks that the same order be made with reference to this 

bill as was adopt-ed in regard to the one just acted upon by th~ House. 

Is there objection? The Chair hears none, and it is so ordered. 

INTERN .AL REVENUE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA. 

:Mr. DAVIDSON, of Florida, by unanimous consent~ introduced a 

bill (H. R. 11308) to subdivide the internal revenue collection district 

of Florida; which was read a first and second time, referred to the 

Committee on Ways and Means, and ordered to be printed. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. ROGERS. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry; has the morning 

hour for the presentation of reports been dispensed with? 

'The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. It has not been. Objection was made 

to that request. The regular order is now the call of committees for 

reports. 

HEl: RY .A. R.AMSA Y. 

Mr. CULBERSON, from the Committee on the Judiciary, reported 

back favorably the bill (H. R. 11197) for the removal of the political disabilities of Henry A. Ramsay; which was read a first and second time, 

referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, 

and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

WRITS OF ERROR IN CAPITAL CASES. 

Mr. ROGERS, from the Committee on the Judiciary, reported back 

with an amendment in the nature of a substitute the bill (S. 3234) to 

abolish circuit court powers of certain district courts of the United 

States, and for other purposes; which was. referred to the House Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

DEED TO SAMUEL I. GUSTIN. 

Mr. STEW ART, of Georgia, from tbe Committee on the Judiciary, 

reported back favorably the bill (H. R. 10919) to make valid a deed to 

a certain tract of land in Bibb County, Georgia, made and delivered by 

Brig. Gen. Davis Tilson, acting assistant commissioner of the Freedman's Bureau, to Samuel I. Gustin, his heirs and .assigns; which wa" 

referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, 

and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

BRIDGES ACROSS KENTUCKY RIVER. 

Ur. CRISP, from the Committee on Commerce, reported back fa,·or- ahly the bill (H. R. 11262) to authorize 'the construction of bridg<'s n.r.ross the Kentucky River and its tributaries by tho Richmond, Nicholasville, Irvine and Beattyville Railroad Company; which was referred 

to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, · 

with the a-ccompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

MATILDA SP .ANGLER. 

Ur. YODER, from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, reported back 

favorably the bill (H. R. 10106) to place the name of Matilda Spangler 

ou the pension-roll; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole 

House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, 

ordered to be printed. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

The SPEAKE~ pro tempore. The hour for the consideration of bills 

commences at twenty-five minutes to 1 o'clock. 

.M:r. SPRINGER. I move to dispense with that hour for to-day. 

There was no objection, ~nd it was ordered accordingly. 

OKLAHOMA. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I move that the House resolve itself into the 

Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union for the purpose of resuming the consideration of the Oklahoma bill. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee af the 

Whole on the state of the Union, Ur. DoCKERY in the chair. 

The CHAIRMAN. The committee resumes the consideration of the 

bill (H. H. 10614) to organize the Territory of Oklahoma, and for ot.her 

purposes. 

The Clerk will read the pending amendment, which was moved by 

the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. ANDERSON]. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Amend by inserting niter the word "acre," in line 14 of section 5, the followin~ Providfl(l, That all honorably discharged Union soldiers, sailors, and m1uines, 

who served in the war for the suppression of the rebellion, shall, in making en- tries for actual settlement under the provisions of this act, be, and hereby are, exempted, in consideration of said service, f.rom the payment of the purchase 

price provided for in this act; and proof of such actual set·vice for a period of at least sixty days, and of honorable discharge therefrom, by such former soldier, sailor, or marine, shall be accepted by the United States in payment in full 

of the purchase price of the lands so entered upon, and all fees in connection 

with said entry. .And all land officers of the United Htates are directed to give preference to the persons making entries under this provision." 

The CHAJ Rl\I.A..l~. When the committee rose the point of no quorum 

was made by the gentleman from Iowa [.Mr. ANDERSON]. The vote 

will be a~in taken on the amendment of the gentleman from Iowa. 

The committee divided; and there were-ayes 38, noes 51. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will appoint as tellers the gentleman 

from Illinois [Mr. SPRINGER] and the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. ANDERSON]. 

The committee again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 72, 

noes 92. 

So the amendment was disagreed to. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will proceed with the reading of the 

bill. . 

Mr. HOLMAN. I offer the following proviso to the section. 

The Clerk read as follows: Provided ju1·ther, That no person shall be authorized to enter land under any provision of this net who at the time of applying to make such entry is the owner of 160 acres of land or more in n.ny State or '.rerritory, or who shall have sold 160 acres of land or more within ninety days before applying to make such entry. 

The Secretary shall prescribe rules to carry into effect this provision. No land warrant or scrip of any kind shall be located on any land embraced in this act. 

' 1\fr. SPRINGER. I hope t.hat amendment will not be adopte.d. 

Mr. PAYSON. I move to strike out "160 acres," wherever it occurs, a.od insert "80 acres." 

Mr. PAYSON'S amendment to the amendment was agreed to. 

1\fr. ·sTONE, of :Mis ouri. I move to strike out that part of the 

amendment relating to any sale within three months. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read the portion proposed to be 

stricken out. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Or who shall have sold 80 n.cres of land or more within ninety dn.ys before ap- plying to make such entry. 

The amendment to the amendment was disagreed to. 

Mr. WEAVER. I wish to make a remark and offer an amendment. 

It ought to be a voluntary sale. 

1\Ir. HOLMAN. That is what it means. 1\Ir. WARNER. ~ It C..'l.n not mean anything else. 

Mr. OUTHWAITE. Is it in order to move an amendment making 

it one year inst€ad of ninety days? Mr. HOLMAN. There isno objection to that. 

Mr. OUTHWAITE. If it is to have any effect it should be made 

one year. 

The CHAIRMAN. Debate is not in order. 

Mr. WEAVER. Oh, no; that is going to an extreme. 

The CHAIR~1AN" . Debate is not in order. 

Mr. WEA VEil. I ask only to speak one minutt: on the amendmcnt. Tile CHAifUI AN. 

l\lr. OUTHWAITE 

reply. 

Is there objection? 

I will not object if I am allow~ a minute to 
1888. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. ~117 

Ilir. PERKINS. lias debate been limited? 

The CllA.IRMAN. It bas been. Is there objection to allowing the 

gentleman from Ohio one minute? 

Mr. OUTHWAITE. I want one minute to reply. 

Mr. WE A. VER. That is all right; there is no objection to that. 

The CHAIRMAJ.'f. Is there objection? 

There was no objection. 

Mr. WEA. VER. Mr. Chairman, while I nm in favor of reserving 

every acre of that land to ·poor people, there are hundreds of thousands 

of poor men in the Northwest and all over the country who are mortgaged beyond their ability to redeem their homes, and it does look to 

me a hardship to say such a man can not sell his mortgaged farm and 

save to himself two or three hundred dollars out of the wreck, and can 

not be permitted to go down there and locate a home for himself and 

family. It does not look right and it is not right. It excludes many 

worthy men whose misfortune it is to be mortgaged beyond their power 

of redemption. I make a plea for these men and do not want this in 

the bill because I think it is not fair. 

Mr. OUTHWAITE. If the settlers to whom the gentleman refers 

who had their lands mortgaged were alone to go there I apprehend the 

objection would be good. But I assume that that is not the case. It 

is not likely. It is to prevent those already having excellent homes 

of 80 acres, who are well established in life, from breaking up and selling out their lands and coming down into this Territory and taking up 

the choice lands from those who have not 80 acres or 40 acres or 10 

acres or any acres at all. The purpose of the bill is to provide lands for 

the landle~. 

Mr. O'NE[LL, of Missouri. And homes for the homeless. 

Mr. OUTHWAITE. Yes. 

Mr. WEAVER. The man who is the most homeless on earth is the 

man who bas a mortgage beyond his ability to redeem. 

Mr. OUTHWAITE. And I think, in order to allow those who have 

not homes to secure them in preference to those who are already well 

established, the amendment ought to be adopted, and that we ought 

not to legislate for the benefit of those who have already 80 acres of 

land as against tbos~ who have none. 

The question being taken on the amendment of :Mr. OUTHWAITE, 

the House divided; and there were-ayes 13, noes 63. 

Mr. HOOKER. No quorum. . 

Mr. OUTHWAITE. I would rather withdraw the amendment, if I 

may be permitted to do so, than take up the time of the committee. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has the right to withdraw it. 

The question now recurs on the amendment of the gentleman from 

Indiana [lvir. HOLMAN]. 

Mr. PEHKINS. Let the amendment be again reported. 

The amendment was again read. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Iftbe gentleman from Indiana will strike out the 

words ''or who shall have sold 80 acres of land or more within ninety 

days before filing the homestead entry" there will be no objection 

whatever to the amendment, I think. 

Mr. RY.A.N. That ha.c; already been voted down, anyhow. 

Mr. HOL~IAN. I can not consent to do tha.t. The whole scope of 

the bill as it stands applies to a few persons--

Mr. SPRINGER . . I am >ery sorry the gentleman from Indiana did 

not discover these good amendments and apply them to the general 

land laws when be brought in a bill this session revising the whole 

system. 

Mr. HOLMAN. They are in that law substantially. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I think not; and I would like very much for the 

gentleman to show me where they are in the law. ~ 

Ur. PEl<KINS. I would like to have the amendment read again 

with a view of suggesting an amendment to the amendment. · 

The amendment was again read. 

Mr. PERKINS. After the words "eighty acres, " where they first 

appear in the amendment, I would suggest the addition of the words 

"free of incumbrance." I tbinl.::, with the gentleman from Iowa, that 

there is serious objection to that feature--

The CHAIRMAN. Debate is not in order. 

The amendment to the amendment was rejected. 

The question recurring on the amendment of Mr. HoL~IAN, the com- mittee divided; and there were-ayes 25, noes 59. 

l\1r. HOLMAN. No quorum. 

Mr. SPRINGER. If the gentleman from Indiana will withdraw 

his amendment now, I will yield to him to move it in the House and 

ha.Ye the yeas and nays on it. 

Mr. HOOKER. l object. 

Mr. HOLMAN. With the understanding that there may be a yeaand-nay vote on tt in the House, I shall consent. 

1\Ir. PAYSON. Well, that ought to include the further proposition 

that the amendment may be divided. 

Mr. RYA~. Yes. 

.Mr. PAYSON. Because the first part will meet the universal concurrence of the Hoose, in my j~1dgment, and I had prepared an amendment snhstautially the same in character. Ir. SPUINGElt This is subject to division. 

Mr. PAYSON. If the understanding is that the amendment as. it 

stands shall be voted down, so that it may be brought before the House 

in a proper form and be then voted on, there will be no o~jection. 

Mr. HOLMAN. If the gentleman will permit me, the proposition 

is divisible into three parts, and any member can demand a division of 

it. With the understanding that I shall have a yea-and-nay vote in 

the House upon the amendment I consent to the suggestion of the gentleman from illinois. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will then announce the result of the 

vote. The amendment is rejected. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I hope it is understood that this matter may be 

offered in the House. 

J\Ir. SPRINGER. I..agree to that. 

lVlr. HAUGEN. I desire to offer a further amendment to section 5. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

.Amend by striking out in lines l5 and lG the words" have resided in the United States for two years, and;" so that it will read: "All persons who are heads of families, or over twenty-one years of age, and who are citizens of the United States, or h~ve declared their intention to be- comes citizens thereof," etc. 

Mr. HAUGEN. Mr. Chairman, I offer this amendment believing it 

to be in the general line of past legislation upon the subject of public 

lands. The policy of Federal legislation has hitherto been to give the 

adopted citizen and him who has declared his intention to become a 

citizen the same rights to acquire and hold property as the citizen by 

birth. I believe this policy to have been wise and beneficent. Under 

it our greatest development bas taken place. With our present rate ot 

immigration it should not be discontinued. Whatever may be said as 

to the foreign-born citizens of our large cities no complaint bas ever 

been heard in regard to those settled in country homes. On the contrary, they have always been recognized as industrious, thrifty, and 

valuable citizens. 

The immigrant's ambition is, as a rule, to secure himself and family 

a home, and his content and happiness depend largely on the fulfillment of that wish, while discontent arises as the acquisition of homes 

is made difficult. If it were not that these additions to our population 

are enabled to secure themselves homes among us, and thus give hope 

of becoming profitable to themselves and the community, it were far 

better not to admit them at all. In that case not many years would 

elapse until you would bear the same objections raised to European 

immigration that is now made to the Chinese. 

lf any danger to the maintenance of our institutions lies in store for 

us, I verily believe that land monopoly and consequent difficulty in 

securing i dependent homes for the 1mndreds of millions who will, before another century has rolled by, inhabit our country, are most likely 

to prove the rock upon which our noble ship may be wrecked. Popu-· 

Jar government must have its roots deep in the hearts and affections of 

the masses, and all legislation should have in view the welfare of the 

masses, the perfect equality of every voter, and absolute submission tO 

the will of the majority legally expressed. 

The sorest way to secure the loyalty of our adopted citizens is to atbch them to the soil. Our foreign-born citizens in countrybo;nes have 

aL all times proved themselves peaceful, law-abiding,and patriotic, and 

loyal to our institutions and laws. 

In this bill you say to the immigrant: You may immediately upon 

your arriYal, provided you will only declare your intention to become 

a citizen of the United States, enter lands anywhere within the public 

domain, and thus lay the foundation for a happy, prosperous home for 

yourself and 1h.m.ily, but if you wend your way to rich Oklahoma you 

must remain a hewer of wood and drawer of water for a per,od of two 

years. 

If this is the right policy as to this Territory, why should it not be 

equally applied to all public lands? 

Take the immigration of tbe last two years as a basis and apply 

this policy generally to our public lands, and you add to onr wageworking population a million people, nearly half of whom are males 

between the ages of fifteen and forty years, the very time of life when 

e>eryinducement should be extended to them to secure independent 

homes. ~ 

Our total immigration for the year ending .June 30, 1887, was 490,-

109, -and of these 227,284 were males between fifteen and forty years. 

Durin~ the year ending .June 30, 18887 the totalnumberofimmigrant:s 

exceeded that of the previous year by about 50,000. 

With the labor question fast pressing upon us is it not the wise thing 

to keep open "this safety-valve, and not by the very force of this proposed legislation make the acquisition of homes more difficult? If yon 

carry this propositioQ. to its legitimate results you wiB, as I have said, 

with our present rate of immigration, add to the already crowding, 

jostling ranks ofwage-workersamillionpeop~e. The tendencyofthis 

must necessarily be to make the relations between the employe and 

employer still more strained, and to increase the present difficulties 

and jealousies between labor and capital. 

Do not understand me as favoring alien ownership of lands. I do 

not. I believe no immigrant not fit for citiz~mship should be permitted to enter our ports. Those who have entered under proper restrictions, and who have declared their intention to become citizens, 

should stand the equal of eYery other citizen before the law as to property rights and the pursuit of happiness. Having ndopted this conn-
CONGRESSIONAL BEOORD~HOUSE. AUGUST 30, 

try as their .own they are as much ooncerned in its welfare and prosperity and the country is as much concerned in them as if their forefathers had landed on Plymouth :rock from the 1\Iayftowet. I r-egret 

that the committee has seen proper to extend to these future citizens 

of our common country this s:tepmotherly greeting, which .is likely to 

sow in their breasts the seeds of disappointment and dissatisfaction from 

their very arrival amongst us. I believe the proposition to be contrary 

to the liberal spirit which haB formerly prevailed on this subject, and 

to be a sharp entering wedge to the r~cognition of distinction between 

different classes of our citizens. I bespeak for my amendment favorable consideration. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I have no objection to the amendment. 

The amendment was adonted. 

Section 6 of the bill was read, as follows: 

SEc. 6. That whenever the Cherokee tribe of Indians shall !flgnifytheir assent to the provisions of this section, in legal manner, to the commission provided for in this act, and the President has issued his proclamation fixing the time as herein provided, the nnoccupied portion of the lands west of the ninety-sixth de- gree of west longitude, ceded to the United States bythesaid tribeoflndians by the treaty ooncl uded J nly 19, 1866, shall be open to ettlement except the sixteenth and thirty-sixth sections of said land, which shall be reserved for school purposes, and shall be disposed of to actual settlers only, in quantities not to exceed 160 acres, in square form, to each settler, at the price of$L25 per acre. All persons who are heads of families or over twenty-one years of age, and who are citizens of the United States, or have resided in the United States two years and have declared their intention to becm:ne dtizens thereof, shall be entitled to become actual settlers on such lands. An accura.U>I account shall be kept by the Secre- tary of the Interior of the money received a-S proceeds of the sale of said lands, and said money shall be placed to the credit of the Cherokee Indian tribe in the Treasury of the United States, after deducting the cost of the sale by the United .States and the amount heretofore appropriated and paid to the Cherokee tribe as pa rt com pen ation for said unoccupied lands: Provided, That nothing in this act shall be con trued to authorize any person to enter upon or occupy any of the lands mentioned in this or the preceding section, for the purpose of settle- ment or otherwise, until after the said Indian tribes and the commissioners herein authorized have concluded an agreement to that effect as provided herein, and laid the same before t.he President of the United States, who is thereupon authorized and required to issue his proclamation declaring such relinquished lands open to settlement, and fixin.g the time from and after which such lands may be taken. Any person who may <enter upon any part of said lands con· trary to the provisions of this act, and prior to the time fixed bythe President's proclamation, shall not be permitted to make entry upon twy lands or lay any claim thereto in said Territory. 

Mr. HAUGEN. I desire to offer the same amendment to this section-to strike out, in lines 16 and 17, the words: 

Have resided in the United States two years, and. 

~1r. SPRINGER. That was agreed to before in the other section, 

an(l I hope there will be no objection to it now. 

The amendment was adopted. 

1\Ir. BARNES. I desire especially to call the attention of the committee to the fact that the language of the sixth section clearly misrepresents the history of the case. It reads: 

. That whenever the Cherokee tribe of Indians .shall signify their assent to the provisions of this section in legal manner to the commission provided for in this act and the President has issued his proclamation fixing the time as herein pro- vider! , the unoccupied portions of the land west of the ninety·six;th degree of we t longitude, ceded to the United States by the said tribe of Indians by the treaty concluded July 19, 1866, shall be open to settlement, etc. 

By reference to the treaty it will be seen that there never bas been 

.any actual cession of these lands. . 

1\Ir. SPRINGER. I have no objection to an amendment, ".agreed to 

be ceded to the United States." 

Mr. BARNES. It was not .agreed to be ceded to the United States. 

It was agreed to be ceded to the Indians settling thereon. I move to 

am~nd by striking out the words "ceded to the United States," in 

lines 6 and 7, and make it read, "agreed to be ceded as provided by 

the treaty of J nly 19, 1866." 

1\Ir. RYAN. Let it be rean as amended, so we may see how it will 

read. 

The Clerk read aa follows: 

In lines 6and 7 strike out the words "ceded -to the United States" and in- sert "as agreed to be ceded according to the provisions of the treaty concluded 

Jnly 19, 1866." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. HOOKER. Before going from that section I desire to offer the 

amendment which I send to the Clerk's desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Strike out the words "in legal manner to the eommis ion provided for in this act" and insert "until the consent of said Cherokee tribe of Indians shall be 1irst obtained by a commission to be appointed by the President of the United States, and when said commission shall ha.ve reported that said consent of said Cherokee tribe of Indians has been obtained." 

1\11·. SPRINGER. The eleventh section provides for a commission, 

.and this simply anticipates it. Let your amendment be offered to that 

section. 

Mr. HOOKER. No; I want it to go right in there. 

If it be true that under the provisions of :this bill yon .are going to 

get as a condition-precedent their consent, then it ought to be done 

and reported before any organization of the Territory is attempted to 

be established there. and that is the reasonwbylofferthisamendment. 

It will be observed.that the language used in the bill of the committee is exceedingly vague and indefinite in its character. . It says' 'that 

whenever the Cherokee tribe oflndianssba.ll signify their assent to the 

provisions of this section in legal manner," without stating what that 

manner is to be, or in what way that assent is to be obtained. The pro-

:vision shonld be made to appoint a commission to visit these tribes in 

the first instance and obtain their consent to the institution of a Territorial government ther.e before anything is attempted to be done. It 

should be a condition-precedent before establishing the Territorial government there, and especially before the Government appoints the officers of the government and all the paraphernalia. of a Territorial government and then obtain the concession of the Indians. 

If the parties who are in favor of this bill are in earnest about re· 

quiring the eonsen_t of the Indian tribes, and especially of this tribe, for 

they are the owners, as I have shown on a former occasion, and have 

patents to the land embraced in this proposed Territory, it ought to be 

had as a condition-precedent. To create a government there, without 

any .e.xpressiCln of opinion had before from the tribes and the faet that 

the consent should be obtained afterwards, would, in my judgment, be 

an expensive operation. I do not know how much it will take, Mr. 

Chairman, to carry into effect this Oklahoma. bill. I venture the assertion that it will not cost the Government less than ten or fifteen million dollars to establish this TeiTitory. If yon are in earnest about obtaining the consent of the Indians, all this expense of the appointment 

of officers, and instituting all the para.pherna.lia of instituting a Territorial government can be avoided, because it will all be nugatory and 

worthless unless the consent of the Indians be obtained. Is it not, 

therefore, wisdom on the part of the United Sta.tes if a Territorial government is to be established there to send a eommiss~on first; and is it 

not best that this consent should be obtained as a condition-precedent, 

before the Territorial government is established? The tribes have never 

asked for it, and none of them .have asked for its establishment there. 

I submit, therefore, that there ought to be added to this section a provision to indicate tha.t the President of the United States ought to appoint a commission, and that the consent of these people should be h ad 

before the establishment of this government. It has been said that 

this hill was not designed or intended to go into effect until the consent had been obtained of all the Indians in it. 

Several MEMBERS. Oh, no ! 

Mr. HOOKER. If that is true, that it shall not operate except upon 

the consent of all these tribes, ought not that consent to be had be1ore 

the Territorial government is.established, so that it may be ascertained 

what the restriction by. the consent of the Indians will amount to? I 

will ask, simply as a business proposition, would it not be wise and 

prudent to obtain the .consent of these Indians in the first instance, because unless it is obtained your government would amount to nothing, 

and yon would have had all the expense of establishing a Territorial 

government over these Indians, and yet no Territorial govermnent established at all? Therefore I hold that the consent of the l::ldians 

should be had before any action is taken at all; that is, a provision 

ought to be adopted in every section of this bill that the assent of the 

Indians ought to be obtained in the first place. 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. If the gentleman from Mississippi will 

allow me in this connection, I desire to suggest an amendment to come 

in at the end of line I .of section .S. It is one which is pertinent to this 

subject and proper to be considered in connection with the amendment 

of the gentleman from Mi issippi. I propose to insert after the word 

'' Indians,'' in line 1 of section u; the words '' and any other tribe or tribes having an interest therein," so that it will read, "that whenever 

the Cherokee tribe of Indians and any other tribe or tribes having an 

interest therein shall signify their assent," etc. Now, it is a fuel;, as 

my friend the chairman of the committee well undertands, that the 

other civilized tribes have, or claim to have, some interest in thesolands. 

Mr. WARNER. Can the gentleman ten us whatindiausamongthe 

civilized tribes claim to have any interest in the Cherokee Outlet? 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. All the tribes. 

Mr. WARNER. But upon what is 'that claim founded? 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. It is asserted and claimed by tho representatives of the Indians. If they have no such right or interest, 

then of com:se the commission will so determine. 

Mr. WARNER. There is an assertion of that kind. but I ask tho 

gentleman from New York, as a lawyer, is there any law or any treaty 

upon which such a claim can be properly founded? 

Ur. HOOKER. If there is none, then th{> gentleman's amendment 

will not hurt. · 

Mr. WARNER. But it will do no good and it is unnecessar.v. 

1\,[r. BA.KER, of New York. It is distinctly asserted before the Committee on Indian Affairs anu before this House that the other civilized 

tribes have an interest. 

Mr. SYMES. !will ask thf\ gentleman tbi que tion: Did it appt:ar 

in any way before the Committee on Territories that .any Indians on 

this continent bad any interest whatever jn these lands except the 

Cherokee tribes? · 

!\1r. BAKER, ofNew York. There was a memorial presented in behalf of all the civilized tribes protesting against this bill, and they all 

claimed an interest. · :Mr. STilES. I beg the geutJeman'a pardon. We bad plenty of 

testimony befOTe us showing the ri bts of the Cherokees, but nothing 

whatever showing that any other tribe or rribes of Indians had or 

claimed to have any Merest in these lands. 
1888. CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-- HOUSE:. ·8119 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. My friend will undoubtedly concede ar~te and independent amendment. I will give way to the gentleman 

that if there are ~ny vested interests in any other tribe or tribes of In- from New York to offer it as a separate amendment, because it comes 

dians, they ought in justice to be protected. in at a line of the bill preceding the. point where my amendment cornea 

Mr. SYl\IES. But there are no such rights, and I do not think it in. Upon this amendment I desire to say a word. It has been said · 

comports with the dignity of the American Congress, passing an im- by gentlemen here that there are no other tribes of Indians than the 

•portant bill of this character, to be talking here about a claim which Cherokees who have any interest in the creation of this Territory, 

has never been presented even among all the wild claims that ~re which includes the Cherokee Outlet. Surely gentlemen can not have 

urged before the Committee on Territories. forgotten that every one of the treaties with the five semi-civilized 

Mr. WEAVER. And by talking about it and putting it in this bill tribes contains a provision that no Territorial or State government shall 

to create such a claim. - be established contiguous to any one of those five tribes without their 

Mr. SYMES. Yes, to create such a claim in the visionary minds of consent. E\"ery treaty contains that provision; yet gentlemen have 

sentimentalists. gravely said here that there is no other tribe of Indians who have any 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. Conceding that the gentleman is cor- interest in the matter. Why, sir, they every one of them have an inreet, it is only fair that this commission should be vest-ed with power terest in it, and they have an interest which they ought to assert and 

to pass upon the claim of any other tribe or tribes. which ought to be recognized in this bill for a simple and obvious rea,.. 

Mr. SY1\1ES. That is to say, the gentleman wants to send out a son. When we take the history of this proceeding with regard to conroving commission to look up Indian tribes and Indian agents and In- stituting this Territory of Oklahoma, we find that a bill was intradian attorneys, and see whether or not ~ the corruption of their imag- duced in the Forty-ninth Congress which was a bolder measure than 

ina the brains they will not present some kind of a claim which has no this, because it declared upon its face, what is no doubt behind this oill, 

foundation in fact. Such a course would make a farce of the commis- namely, a purpose to include the five semi-civilized tribes themselves 

sion and destroy the decent progreEs of this proceeding. and the lands which they occupy. . Mr. WEA. VER. And in case those Indiansshouldmakesncha claim, This bill does not propose that, but it does propose to include all the 

you have to get their consent before this law can go into operation. territory in the Indian Territory contiguous to the lands of those tribes, 

?tlr. BAKER, of New York. Oh, no. . _ and therefore the amendment of the gentleman from New York [Mr. 

?tlr. WEAVER. That .is the meaning of the amendment. BAK.ER] is a very wise and proper one. And the other Indians are in· 

Mr. RYAN. I want to say to my frien~ from New York that I do terested. They are interested to ·this extent, that if you~stablish, as 

not think he is warranted in making the statement to this House that I yon propose to do by this bill, a Territorial government bordering upon 

any tribe of Indians on the face of the earth claims any interest i.n the their lands, you at once create a Territory which will be peopled by 

Cherokee Outlet except the Cherokees themselyes. white men, a Territory from which you propose to exclude people who 

1t1r. B.A.KER, of New York. Perhaps I am not. Still, it is a fact desire to occupy'that portion of the public domain under the homestead 

that the assertion is made. law, and you will have a Territory infringing upon the five semi-civilMr. RYAN. I do not think the gentleman ha~ any paper, any me- ized tribes which will, be peopled by white men, and the next thing 

moria], or any sort of petition, on the part of any other Indians on the will be that you will want to embrace the lands which are now owned 

face of the e..1.rth, asserting that they have any sort of a claim on this and occupied, and defined by.metes and bounds, and governed by the 

Cherokee Outlet. So that my friend's amendment is simply and en- respective governments of the :five semi-civilized tribes. The bill of 

tirely without color or shadow of foundation. last season shows that the purpose is to eventually embrace them all 

Mr. BA.KER, of New York. I differ with my friend on that point. within such Territorial organization as will enable the white people to 

Mr. WEA. VER. Will the gentleman from New York [Mr. B.AKER] occupy their l.ands. 

permit me to ask him a question? I say, therefore, that every one of the five semi-civilized tribes has 

1\Ir. BAK~R, of New York. Certainly. an interest in the prevention of the -.;iolation of the treaties by which 

Mr. WEAVER. Suppose that Sitting Bull should claim that under the Government.of the United States has most solemnly agreed that at 

this treaty he had a right to petition the United States to be settled on no future time-:the language of the treaty is very broad-that at no 

this land as a "friendly _Indian," and that therefore his consent was future time will it organize and create Territories or States contiguous 

necessary? to these Indian lands. No, sir, thi~ Indian Territory itself occupies 

?tlr. BA.KER, of New York. Well, ifSittingBullshouldmakesuch but.a very small area of land, and this bill proposes to take a very 

a claim, the wise commission which will be appointed by the wise Ex- large proportion of it near each one of these semi-civilized tribes and 

ecutive of the United States would examine the claim, and if he could organize it into a Territory. The proposition, as was well said by the 

establish any rights, of course they ought to be determined and ex- distinguished gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HoLMAN], is a mostanomtinguished. alous piece of legislation, such as never before has been presented beMr. SYMES. And the gentleman from New York proposes to send fore the CongresS of the United States from the organization of the 

out a commission-- - Government down to the present time. 

Mr. B.i.KER, of New York. I do not propose it; the bill proposes it. . There never has been a proposition to create a Territory like this. I 

~Ir. SYMES. The gentleman proposes to send out a commission ap- say, therefore, that the amendment of the gentleman from New York 

pointed by this wise Executive, and have these wise members of this is proper and right, because this measure does affect the interests of 

wise commission sitting there by the month, and have Indians come every one of these semi-civilized t1·ibes, and virtually interferes with 

from all over this country to say whether or not they still claim :}ll this the provisions of the treaty entered into for their protection. 

continent. I have myself heard ministers of the gospel practically [Here the hammer felL] 

contend before the Territorial Committee t.hat all the land west of the Mr. SYMES. ?tlr. Chairman, the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. 

Missouri River belongs to-day honestly to the Indians, and that is about HoOKER] has finally stated the proposition which I imagine my friend 

the kind of farce that you would get up by your amendment. from New York was trying to eliminate by his visionary amendment. 

Mr. BA.KER, of New York. I did not suppose that in offering this It is that the five civilized tribes are interested in the organization of 

amendment it would excite so much opposition. Oklahoma Territory, because certain ancient treaties provide that you 

The CHAIRl\1AN. The time of the gentleman from New York has shall not organize Territories or States contiguous to the five civilized 

expired. _ . tribes without their consent. If that be the proper construction of those 

Mr. WARNER. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the gentleman from treaties, they wore violated by the organiza.tion of the Territory and 

New York [~Ir. BAKER] be allowed five minutes more, as nearly all State of Kansas, by the organizationofthe Territoryand State of Colohis time has been taken up by others. rado, by the organization of the Territory ofNew Mexico, and I Iillght 

There was no o~jection, and it was so ordered. say by the organization of the State of Texas. 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. I say, :Ur. Chairman, I did not sup- Mr. SPRINGER. And Arkansas. 

pose that a.n innocent little amendment like this would excite such Mr. SYMES. Yes, and Arkansas, and, comparatively speaking, every 

violent opposition. other State west of the Missouri River. 

1\Ir. SPRINGER. I understand that this is not offered as an amend- Now, we have finally, by the clearly-stated oratorical logic of thegenment to the amendment of the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. tlemanfrom Mississippi, foundoutthevisionaryclaim which my friend _ 

HooKER]. . from New York was trying to get at. I think the House understands 

Mr. BA.KER., of New York. No; but to be considered in connec- it and will vote intelligently upon the question whether we shall send 

tion with it. I really thought that the chairman of the Committee on a commission west to negotiate with t.he Indians in reference to the orTerritories and the committee would con ent to this amendment. ganization of a Territory or a State of this Union which may be contig-

[Laughter.] nons to or in the vicinity of the five civilized tribes. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Let the amendment be read. Mr. HOOKER. Out of lands belonging to the Indians themselves. 

The Clerk read as follows: Let the gentleman add that and his statement will be complete. _ 

After the word "Indians," line 1, section 6, insert "and any other tribe or Mr. SYMES. I beg the gentleman's pardon; the question of cession 

tribes having an interest therein." is provided for in other parts of the bill. . 

Mr. SPRINGER. That amendment does not have anv relation ·Mr. BAKER, of New York. Mr. Chairman, I do noj; propose by · whatever .to the amendment of the gentleman from MissisSippi [Mr. this amendment to recognize that there is any existing right, title, or 

BooKER]. claim in any other Indian tribe. But the commission, when appointed, 

Mr. HOOKER. No; and itwotild probably come in better as a sep- must necessarily act somewhat in a judicial_ capacity; they must pass 
\ 

8120 ·coNGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. AuGUST 30, 

upon the title and claim of any tribe or tribes to any portion of these 

lands. If it appears that no such claim is well founded, the commission will so report, and that report will naturally be conclusive noon • the question. But the rights of the Indians under the treaty, as has 

been well stated by the gentleman from Mississippi, are to be considered. 

If they have any rights under these treaties, any court in the land would 

recognize them; and certainly the highest legislative powerofthe Government will not refuse to recognize the just claim of any tribe or of 

any man. [Cries of'' Vote!" "Vote!"] 

Mr. BARNES. 1\fr. Chairman, I would like to say a few words on this question. · 

The CHAIRMAN. Debate is exhausted; but if there be no objection the Chair will recognize the gentleman. Mr. SYMES. I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman from 

Georgia [Mr. BARNES], who is a member of the Committee on Territories, may speak for five minutes. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair hears no objection. 

Mr. BARNES. Mr. Chairman, the construction which is put upon . the treaties by the gentleman from Colorado [Mr. SYMEsl is entirely erroneous. The five tribes were located on what is now known as the 

Indian Territory, and the whole of that Territory was granted to them, 

in pursuance of a policy of the Government adopted in 1830,·by which 

they were to be located on a certain area of territory in compact form, 

free from the intrusion of the white man. And one of the provisions 

of those treaties was that no State or Territorial government should 

ever be created over them. That provision was in e..'lch treaty. But 

the homes were located as homes for all the·Indians. It was not intended at that time that there should not be any State or Territory organized outside and independent of that area, becau~e such States or Territories were even then in existence. The intention, in pursuance 

of that policy, was that this a1·eaof territory on which these five tribe.s were to be located should be a separate Indian home over which no State or Territorial government should be established. And, Mr. Chairman, if this was to be s~ch a home, over which no State or Territorial 

government was to be created, each tribe located thereon, with its 

boundaries confined to a certain limit, bad an interest in the integrity 

of the entire Tenitory. And they have that interest to-day, except so far as modified by the treaty of 1866. Itisfortbisclearreason that ·each tlibe has an interest to-day in the preservation of the integrity of 

this whole area of country. On this ground, and on this ground espe- c~lly, I insist that the amendment ought to be adopted. · Mr. SYMES. The gentleman says that the provisions of the treaties 

to which he bas referred maintain his position, exce.Pt so far as they were modified by the treaty of 1866. Now, did not the treaty of 1866 

modify the position that thesfl tribes before occupit'd with reference to 

the control over the whole Indian Territory? 

Mr. BARNES. Those treaties did not modify the previous position 

of those tribes one jot or one tittle beyond the point that other tribes 

of friendly Indians were to be located there. · The 9riginal policy of 

preserving that Territory free from the intrusion of the white man was firmly adhered to and carried out in the treaty of 1866; and Mr. Cox, 

Secretwy of the Interior under General Grant, in a report on this subiect in 1870, insisted that this policy should be firmly adhered to. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I hope the committee will allow me one minute 

in reply. 

The CHAIRl\IAN. The Chair bears no objection. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman, this section relates simply to ceding the ownership or whatever claim the Indians may have to this land; 

it has no relation to Territorial goYernmentsor anything of that kind. 

Now, will the gentleman from Georgia [1\Ir. BARNES] give me his 

attention? When this treaty of July 19, 1866, was made between the 

Cherokee Nation and the United States, a treaty which stipulated that 

the Government· might take these lands at a stipulated price and settle 

friendly Indians upon them, was the consent of the other tribes asked 

to that treaty? Was their consent necessary? Of course not; eYerybody understands that. ' 

So this bill follows the precedent of that treaty, in which the Cherokees alone were parties, aud no other Indians were asked to consent; 

they can dispose of any portion of land which belongs to them only, 

and not to any other tri~e. That is all there is of this. 

Mr. BARNES. The gentleman is mistaken, because by the treaty 

of 1866 the policy of settling other friendly Indians there was preserved. 

1\fr. SPRINGER. The Cherokees were alone consulted in regard to 

disposing of their lands. 

Mr. BARNES. The policy under which all the tribes bad an interest was preserved. 1\Ir. WEAVER. Does the gentleman insist we should get the consent of every Indian tribe? 

Mr. BARNES. I insist we should have the consent of the five 

tribes. 

The CHAIRMAN. Debate is exhausted, and the question recur~ on, 

the amendment of the gentleman from New York [Mr. BAKER]. 

The · amendment was again read. 

The committee divided; and there were--:-ayes 21, noes 44. 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. I make the point of no quorum. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I hope the gentleman will not make the point of no quorum. It is difficult to get a quorum of the House, and time is 

only wasted. 

Mr. BAKER; of New York. The amendment is an important one, 

and I must insist upon a quorum voting upon it. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I am perfectly willing to give the gentleman a yea-and-nay vote on his amendment in the House. 

Mr. HOOKER. If the gentleman withdraws the point of no quorum, I will renew it. 

1\ir. SPRINGER. I have never askedafavorofthe House, anddming the fourteen years I have been a member I have never been absent 

from the deliberations of the House except on one occasion for two weeks, except when absent on committees under the order of the House. 

I. wish to be absent for a few days, but can not do so until this bill lias 

been disposed of or is out of t.he way. It would accommodate me if a vote could be taken upon the alll.endments and the bill disposed of. It 

would be a great accommodation to me if that could be don·e, and I know 

the public interest will be subserved by the disposal of this bill at an early date. · 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. I can not resist the appeal of the gentleman from Illinois, although the amendment I have submitted is an 

impoTtant one. Mr. SPRINGER. .As I have said, I shall agree the gentleman shall 

have a yea-and-nay vote on his amendment in the House. 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. I withdraw the point of no quorum. 

Mr. HOOKER. I renew it. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. SPRINGER. The gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. :ltfcCREARY] 

desires to make a report on the fisheries matter, and for that purpose 

I ask the committee informally rise and go into the House. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I wish to submit a conference report, and I do not 

agree to the committee informally rising merely for the purpose of receiving a report from the Committee on Foreign Aft'ain~. 

The CHAIRMAN. Objection having been made, the question will 

be put on the motion of the gentleman that the committee rise. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The committee accordingly rose; and 1\fr. BLAND having taken the 

chair as Speaker pro tempore, 1Jfr. DocKERY reported that the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union bad according to 

order had under consideration the bill (H. R. 10614) to organize the 

Territory of Oklahoma, and for other purposes, and had come to no 

resolution thereon. 

FISHERIES. 

Mr. McCREARY. Mr. Speaker, I am directed by the Committee on Foreign Affairs to report back the bill (H. R. 11257) to empower 

the President to carry out the purposes of an act to protect and defend 

the rights of American fishermen, approved March 3, 1887, with a substitute therefor. I ask that the original bill be laid upon the table 

and the substitute be treated as a new bill, and read a first and sec- ond time, and ordered to l1e printed. 

The SPEAKER pro te1npore. The Chair hears no objection, and it is 

ordered accordingly. 

Mr. McCREAHY. Mr. Speaker, I now give notice to the Hot:Se that 

under the privilege granted to the Committee on Foreign Affair3, I will 

call np this bill for consideration on Saturday next, immediately after_ 

the reading of the Journal. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Will the consideration of the bill continue for 

longer than one day? ' 

Mr. McCREARY. It is impossible for me to say, but I believe it 

will consume more than one day in its consideration. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I tope the members who are nbsent from the city 

will feel enough of interest in this important question to be present on that occasion and bel p to dispose of it n.s soon as possible. 

Mr. HEARD. Let me suggest to the gentleman from Kentucky that 

be cali it up on Monday next instead of on Saturday. Every member 

is aware of the fact that it is impossible on Saturdays always to get a 

quorum, and I hope he will agree to postpone C..'l.lling the. bill up t~ll 

"'Monday or Tuesday, and when so called up we can then diSpose of It. 

Mr. 1\IcCHE.A.RY. I have been instructed by the Committee on 

Foreign .Affairs to report the bill as it has been stated a.nd to give notice 

that thesubstitnte re-ported by the committee, and which is to be treated as a new bill will be taken up for consideration on Saturday next immediately after the reading of the Journal. I am not certain whether 

the bill will consume more than one day. 

Mr. DUNN. I risetoaparliamentaryinquiry. I think it ha.s been 

held heretofore that when the special privilege to report at any time 

b!ls been given to a committee it loses that special privilege when re- port has been made and it goes upon the Calendar for consideration. 

The gentleman from Kentucky therefore had better report back his 

substitute and move to recommit, which motion c.an be called up by 

him at any time. 

l\lr. McCREARY. I think the privilege goes with this bill until ii; 

is considered, and for that reason I do not agree with my friend from 

Arkansas. 
1888. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8121 

Mr. DUNN. I merely raised the question so that there may be no · A bill (H. R. 2601) for the relief of the Baptist Female College at 

doubt about it. Lexington, Mo. . 

Mr. McCREARY. I think when the House agreed that the bill Also, that the Senate had passed bills of the following titles; in 

might be reported for consideration at any time, it is within the power which concurrence of the House was requested, namely: 

ofthe House to agree that the bill may Le C.'llled for consideration im- A bill (S. 320) for the relief of J.D. Adams; 

mediately after the reading of t.he Journal on the day I have named. A bill (S. 3482) to authorize the construction and operation of a 

Mr. SPRINGER. It simply amounts, in the present instance, to wagon-road across the Pike's Peak reservation, in the State of Colorado; 

postponing the consideration. A bill (S. 3364) to provide for an American register for the steamer 

Mr. NELSON. I hope the gentleman from Kentucky will couple Saginaw, of New York; and 

with his suggestion a request that the bill and the report be printed in A bill (S. 3475) granting the use of certain lands in Pierce County, 

the REcoRD. Washington Territory, to the city of Tacoma for the purpose of a public :Mr. HOLMAN. I want to suggest to the gentleman fram Ken- park. 

tncky that it is a rule of uniform practice, and bas been SO held in the FORT WALLACE JIIILITARY RESERVATION. 

House without exception, as I understand it, that when a measure of Mr. HOLMAN. I submit a conference report at the earnest request 

this kind goes to the Calendar, whatever privilege it bad is lost. It of a member of the conference committee who wishes to be absent, 

must be recommitted to the committee; and then, of course, it is but with the understanding with the gentleman from Illinois that if · within the power of the committee to report it at any time for con- it occupies any time I will withdraw it. 

sideration. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The report will be read. 

Mr • .McCREARY. Then I will add to my first request that the bill The Clerk read as follows: 

be printed and recommitted to the Committee on Foreign Affairs, with The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on authority to report for consideration on Saturday next. the amendmen!lS of the Senate to tlle bill (H. R. 8310) to provide for the disposiThe SPEAKER pro tanp ore. That will be the order. tion of the Fort Wallace military reservation in Kansas, having met, after full and free conference haYe agreed to recommend e.nd do recommend to their 

Mr. HEARD. They have that privilege already. respective Houses as follows : The SPEAKER pro tempore. • The bill will be printed and recom- Tllat the Senate recede from its amendments numbered 2, 3, t, and 5. 

mitted. That the House recede from its disagreementt.o the amendment of the Senate 

numbered I, and agree to thesamo with an amendment as follows: In lieu of Mr. BLOUNT. I wish to ask the gentleman from Kentucky if he the matter s(ricken out by said Senate amendment insert: 

still gives notice that be will ask to call this bill up on Saturday ? . .. EC. 2. That the Union Pacific Railroad Company is hereby granted the pref-

:Mr. McCREARY. Yes, sir; immediately after the reading of the erence right for the period of three months after tbe appraisement herein proJournal. vided for, to purchase the southeast quarter of the southeast quarter of section 

24, township 13 south, range 39 west, in fractional blocks«, 49, 50, 51, 36, and 

I will further ask, :M:r. Speaker, that the bill be printed in the 48, according to the town plat of the city of Wallace, the same being now occu· RECORD, and that it be recommitted to the committee. • pied by said railroad company for depot and other purposes, at S30 per acre." 

Mr. NELSON. That is the substitute proposed by the committee And the Senate agree to the !Same. WILLIAM s. HOLMAN, 

and the report? J. E. WASHINGTON, 

Mr. McCREARY. The substitnte is what I referred to; and that Ma~g~~~~~~~:!t of the House. 

th~:~t~e~~.m~i~~IJ I::: ~~~~=~~~tfe~~~~r!!a~ntucky ~- t.PJ-2~R. if there is any objection to printing the report in the RECORD. JAMES H. BERRY, 

Mr. CANNON. By all means let the report be printed. Managers on the part of the Benare. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will submit the request to The mana.gers on the part of the House submit the following report: 

the House. Is there objection to printing the proposed substitute in The managers on the part of the House of the conference on the disagreeing R Yotes of the two Houses on the bill (H. R. 8310) to provide for the disposal of 

the ECORD? the Fort Wallace military reser>ation in Kansas submit the following written 

There was no objection, and it was so ordered. statement in explanation of the effect of the action on the Senate amendments 

Mr. CANNON. What was determined about the report? recommended· by the conference committee: · l b The bill as it passed the House extended to the Union Pacific Railroad Com· The SPEAKER pro tempol'e. The Obarr wil cause the report to e pany the preference right for a period of three months to purchase certain of 

also printed in the HECORD, if there be no objection. the lands within the city of Wallace, Kans., now occupied by said railroad com- Mr. CANNON. The report and the substitute are both to be printed. pany for depvt and other purposes, at such price as might be fixed, without 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without obiection, that order will be reference to the improvements thereon, by the Secretary of the Interior and at ., not less than $3.50 per acre. As agreed upon by the committee of conference, made. the said railroad company is gramed the right to purchase the land mentioned 

There was no objection, and it was so ordered. at the price of$30 per acre, and no discretion is given to the Secretary of the In·· 'Ihe snbstitute proposed by the Committee on Foreign Aftairs is as terior to charge a greater or less price for the land. . WM. S. HOLMAN, follows: J. E. WASHINGTON, 

A bill (H. R. lld09) to empower the President to carry out the purposes of an act E. J. TURNER, entitled "An act to authorize the President of the United States to protect and Managers on the part of the House. 

defend the rights of American fishing-vessels, American fishermt>n,.A.merican Mr. HOLMAN. I think a statement can be made briefer than the 

trading and other vesJels in certain cases, and for other purposes," approved re_port. It is simply this: The Union Pacific Railroad, or the Kansas March 3, 1887. _ Beitena.cled, etc., That whenever the President may deem it his duty to exer- branch of it, passes over what is known a.S the Fort Wallace reserva- cise any of the powers given to him by an act entitled "An act to authorize the tion. The railroad company had established its machine-shops and 

President of the United States to protect and defend the rights of American depots on the reservation and wa-s occupying about 40 acres of land. 

fishinJOt vessels, American fishermen, American trading and other >essels, in Th bill · 't 1 ·a fi th d' 'ti f t f th certain cases, and for other purposes," appro>ed March 3, 1887, it shall be law- e 10 1 s genera scope prov1 es or e lSpOSI on 0 par 0 e ful for the President in his discretion, by proclamation to that effect, to suspend reservation to be sold under the homestead law. The House provided 

in whole or in part the transportation across the territory of the United States, that the land occupied by the Union Pacific Railroad might be sold at in bond and without the payment of duty, of goods, wares, and merchandise im- a price to be determined by the Secretary of the Interior, at not less ported or exported from any foreign country, from or to the British domin- ions in North America. . than $2.50 an acre. The Senate struck out that provision, and that SEC. 2. That whenever the President shall be satisfied that there is any dis- le1t this 40 a-cres in the position of not having the price determined. 

crimination whatever in the use of the Welland Canal, the St. Lawrence Uiver In a conference it has been agreed that as to that 40 acres, instead of canals, the Chambly Canal, or either of them, whether by tolls, drawbacks, re- fund of tolls, or otherwise, which is or may be detrimental to the interests of the the price being determined by the Secretary of the Interior, it shall be 

D_nited.State!!, or any of its citi~ens, it shall be lawful for the President in his fixed at $30 an acre. I am not entirely satisfied with. the conclusion 

d1scret10n to tssue a proclamatiOn to that effe~t, whet·eupon there shall be col-~ arrived at but I feel that after the conference we have had the report lected a toll of 20 cents a ton upon every fore1gn vessel and her cargo passmg ' 

through either the Sault Ste. Marie Canal or the St. Clair Flats Ca.nal, and the should be adopted. Secretary of the Trea~ury may au~horize and direc~ any of the. cus.tolr!s offic;ers The report of the conference committee was adopted. to collect .the t?llS levied U?der thiS act, ?rtl;Je rre~tdent ma~ .. m lus discreho!ll Mr HOLMAN moved to reconsider the vote by which the report of when he lS sallsfied there 18 any such discrimmatwn, prohtblt the use of sata · . canals to any such foreign vessel. The President, when satisfied that such dis- the conference committee was adoptea; and also moved that the roo- crimination has ceased, may issue his proclamation to that effect, in his discre- tion to reconsider lie on the table 

tion, wbereup?~ ~he t<;>lls authorized by this act shall no longer be collected, The latter motion wa-s agreed fu and such prohib1t10n, tfordered, shall cease. · SEC. 3. That the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized to make any regula- QKLAHOMA .TERRITORY. 

tions needful to carry this act into effect. . ' Mr. SPRINGER. I move that the House now resolve itself into the 

The report (by :Mr. McCREARY) is as follows: Committee of the Whole for the consideration of tile Oklahoma bill. 

Mr. McCREARY, from the C<>mmittee on Foreign Affairs, submitted the fol- The motion was agreed to; and the House accordingly went into 

lo;~gc~e~ft~ee on Foreign A..tfa.irs, to whom was referred H. R.ll257, .. A bill Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, ?t!r. DOCKERY in 

to empower the President to carry out the purposes of an act to protect and de- the chair. 

fend the rights of American fishermen," approved March 3,1887, report favora- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. HooKER] ~?ly a. substitute therefor, and recommend that H. R.ll257 be laid on the table. f\_nd the gentleman from Tilinois [Mr. SPRINGER] will take their places 

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. as tellers and resume the count. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, announced The committee again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 18, 

that the Senate had passed without amendment the following bills: noes 60. 

A bill (H. R. 5670) to provide for the construction of a revenue-cutter Mr. SPRINGER. I ask the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. HooKER] 

for New Berne, N. C., to replace the revenue-cutter Stevens; and to withdraw the point of no quorum. 
8122 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. AUGUST 30, 

1\Ir. HOOKER. Regular order, 1\fr. Chairman. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Then I ask that the roll be called. 

The roll was called, and the following members failed to answer to 

their names: 

' Allen, Uass. Dingley, Kerr, Reed, 

Arnold, Dougherty, Ketcham, Robertson, 

Bankhead, Dunham, Laidlaw, Rockwell, 

Barry, Finley, Landes, Rowell, 

Belden, Fisher, Lawler, Russell, Mass. Belmont, Fitch, Long, Rusk, 

Biggs, Flood, Macdonald, Seymour, 

Blanchard, Foran, Maffett, Sherman, 

Boothman, Ford, l\o'Iaish, Simmons, 

Boutelle, Gaines, Martin, Sowden, 

Bowden, Gay, Matson, Spinola., 

Brown, Ohio Gibson, McAdoot Spooner, Buchanan, Glo~·er, McCornllck, Stephenson, 

Buckalew, Granger, McKinley, Stewart, Tex. Burrows, Greenman, McKinney, Stewart, Vt. Butterworth, Grosvenor, Mcl'i1illin, Tarsney, 

Campbell, Ohio Grout, McRae, Taylor, E. B., Ohio 

Campbell,T.J., N. Y.Hare, McShane, Taylor, J.D., Ohio 

Candler, Hatch, Merriman, Thomas, Ky. 

Catchings, Hayden, Milliken, Thomas,ru. 

Clardy, Hayes, Mills, Thompson, Cal. 

Clark, Hemphill, Montgomery, Tillman, 

Cockran, Hermann, Moore, Turner,Ga. 

Collins, Hires, Morrill, Wa.de, 

Cooper, Hitt, Morse, Weber, 

Cox, Hopkins,TII. Norwood, West. Crain, Hopkins,N. Y. O'Donnell, White,N. Y. Culberson, Honk, O'Neill, Pa. Whiting,l\lich. 

Cutcheon, Hovey, Owen, Whiting, Mass. Dargan, Howard, Peel, Wickham, 

Darlington, Hudd, Pidcock, Wilber, 

Davenport, Hunter, · Plumb, Wilkins, 

Davidson, Ala. Johnston, N.C. Pugsley, Wilkinson, 

David'!on, Fla. Jone . .<:;, Randall, Wilson, W.Va. DeLano, Kennedy, Rayner, Woodburn. 

The committee rose; and Mr. CRISP having taking the chair as Speaker pro tempore, Mr. DocKERY reported that the Committee of the 

Whole House on the state of the Union, having found itself without a 

quorum, had caused the roll to be called, and had instructed him to report to the House the names of the absentees. 

The SPEAKER pro t-empore. One hundred and eighty-three members have answered to their names~more than a quorum; and the 

committee will, under the rule, resume its session without any busines being transacted in the House. 

The committee resumed its session. Mr. DoCKERY in the chair. 

The CHAIRMAN. The tellers win resume their _Elaces. On the 

amendment offered by the gentleman from New York LMr. BAKER] 18 

gentlemen have voted in the affirmative and 60 in the negative. All 

members who have not voted will pass between the tellers. 

After completing the count, the tellers reported-ayes 36, noes 127. 

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. BURNES in the chair). The noes have it, and 

the motion is rejected. · 

The CleJ:k read as follows: 

Strike out the word~" in legal manner to the commission provided for in this 

act" and insert "by tbe consent of said Cherokee tribe of Indians, which shall be first obtained by a. commission to be appointed by the President of the Unit-ed 

State , and said commission shall have reported that said-consent of said Cherokee tribe of Indians has been obtained." 

1\fr. HOOKER. I would add to my amendmentand any other tribes having interest there. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I desire to ask my friend to withhold his amendment until we reach the eleventh section Of the bill, where the President is authorized to appoint this commission. It is impossible to have 

everything in one section. I will read the section: 

Snc. 11. That the President of the United States is hereby authorized and directed to appoint a. com.mission, to be composed of five persons, not more than 

three of whom shall be members of one political party, whose duty it shall be to open negotiations with the Creeks, Seminoles, and Cherokees, for the pur- pose of securing the consent of said Indians, so far as it may be necessary, to the provisions of section 5 and section 6 of this act. The commission is authorized to enter into such agreements with said Indian tribes as it may deem necessary to accomplish the purposes of this act, and shall submit the same to the President for his a.pproval or rejection. The compensation of the members 

of said commission shall be at the rate of $10 per day ; and they shall also be 

allowed, in addition thereto, their actual necessary traveling expenses, station- ery, and postage. They shall ha.ve power to appoint a secretary, who shall re- ceive a compensation of $6 per day, and such allowances for traveling expenses as he may actually incur. 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. ·It should be adopted, especially as you 

recognize that the Creeks and Seminoles have an interest in this land. 

Mr. SPRINGER. If he wants to make an amendment in this respect, I would ask the gentleman to-withhold his motion until it can be brought in at the right place. I want to get this bill so that if it 

pass it will read. in consecutive order and the subjects will be in their 

proper sections. 

Mr. HOOKER. I think this is theappropriate placeforthisamendment. We have other amendments which will be offered in the section 

to which the gentleman has just referred. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Lettheclausebereadasitwillappearifamended. _ The Clerk read as follows: 

That whenever the Cherokee tribe of Indians shall signify their assent totl.le 

provisions of this section by the consent of said Cherokee tribe of Indians or any other tribe or tribes having an interest therein, which shall be first obtained 

by a. commission to be appointed by the President of the Uniled Sto.tes, and 

when said commission shall have reported that said consent of said Cherokee 

tribe of Indians or any other tribe or tribes having interest therein shall be obtained and the President has issued his proclam~tion, etc. 

Mr. HOOKER. I offered this amendment prior to the amendment 

which was offered by my friend from New York [Mr. BAKER] to another part of tlle bill, and I gave way for its consideration as it came 

first in order in the bill. 

Now, it will be observed, :1\fr. Chairman, that section 6 of the bill 

provides, as it reads without amendmentThat whenever the Cherokee tribe oflndians shall signify their assent to the 

provisions of this section in legal manner. 

There is nothing to say what the manner shall be. There is no pTovision to say bow that consent shall be expressed, and if it is indeed 

and in truth an honest expression of opinion on the part of these Indians 

whether they desire the construction of, a Territorial government over 

the land which belongs to them under the most solemn treaties of the 

Government, then I say it ought to be obtained before there is any 

effort to create .that Territory. 

In other words, as I unde~tand the operation of the bill as proposed 

by the Committee on Territories, we are to go on and organize this 

Territory, and it virtually provides that this Territorial organization 

shall be operative over only the lauds of those Indians who shall assent to it; so that at all times the non-assent of any Indian tribe may 

vary the boundary of the Territory an.d make it different from what it 

was. If gentlemen will look at the map which this Committee on 

Territories have prepared for the purpose of showing what proportion 

of the,. Indian Territory they propose to embrace in Oklahoma, they 

will observe that the dark part represents the portion of the Territory 

occupied by ihe five semi-civilized tribes, and the white part the lands now known as this Oklahoma Territory. It contains within its borders about one-half of the Indian Territory which was conceded by the 

Government of the United States to the five semi-civilized tribes to be 

theirs forever. The patents and treaties of the Government make it 

theirs. 

Now, this bill proposes to take, I should judge, about one-half of 

this Indian Territory and constitute it into a Territory of the United 

States, with a regular Territorial government, and then, under subsequent provisions of the bill, a commission is to be appointed for the 

purpose of getting the·aasent of the various Indians who by the consent of the semi-civilized tribes have been settled as friendly Indians 

in their territory, among whom will be found the Cheyennes, the Arapahoes, the Wichitas, the Kiowas, the Comanches, the Uncas, the Iowas, 

the Chippewas, and various other tribes. These Indians are all settled 

upon this territory which it is now proposed to constitute a Territory 

of the United States, embracing, as it does, what is known as the 

Cherokee Outlet, which constitutes a very large proportion of this proposed territory. I say, therefore, that it is proper that the consent of 

these Indians should be had in the first place, and if the men who want 

to make a United States Territory out of these Indian lands are honest 

and earnest in their assertion that it is to be done with the assent of 

the Indians, then I say the obtaining of that assent ought to be preliminary to the organization of the new Territory. • · The CHAIRMAN_ The time of the gentleman from Mississippi has 

expired. The question is on the adoption of the amendment. 

1tlr. SPRINGER. I rise to oppose the amendment. I understand 

the gentleman's point in favor of this proposition is that he desires all 

of the Indians in the Indian Territory to be consulted and their consent obtained before this Territorial government can be established. 

Is that correct? 

Mr. HOOKER. Yes, sir. 

1tlr. SPRINGER. Now, there are five civilized tribes in that Territory, and probably ten or fifteen other tribes living in various parts 

of it. The gentleman desires that we shall consult all of the Indians 

in the Territory. Of those other tribes one has only ninety ·two members and another eighty-nine. They are living in remote parts of the 

Territory, and are not affected in any way by the claim of title to these 

lands. 

It seems to me very unreasonable, and it is a thing that has never been done heretofore. When we acquired titles to the lands of the Indians in Kansas each tribe consented for itself; and it was so in Mi issippi and in Georgia. These very Cherokees themselves agreed torelinquish their rights in Georgia and in Mississippi, and no other Indian tribes were consulted about it. This past winter we pa d a bill 

allowing the Sioux Indians in Minnesota to relinqui h a portion of 

their lands, 11,000,000 acres, and nobody claimed that their rights 

would be imperiled unless the bill contained a provision requiring a.ll 

the other Indians in Minnesota, or in the whole Northwest to be consulted. 

Mr. HOLMAN. But all the Indians on that reservation were consulted. 

Mr. SPRINGER. All that owned the reservation were consuJted, 

and thereis thesame requirement here. Now, ifyouadoptthisamendment it will simply enable other tribes of Indians that have no real 

interest in these lands to come to the Government and levy blackmail 

and demand that they shall be paid something before these Indians 

shall be allowed to relinquish the lands which they own and in which 
1888. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8123 

the others have no right whatever. If the gentleman wants to protect syndicate will have an interest in encouraging these small bands of 

the rjghts of the Indians why not let the Cherokees attend to their own Indians, .by argument or by som-ething more persuasive than argument, 

business, and let the Seminoles .attend to their business, and settle it to stand out against any proposition which may be made by the com· 

ina legal way? And by "a legal way" I mean this; They have their mission oTanyterms which may be acceded to by theothertrilies1 howLegislature and their Council, which the gentleman himself has ex- · ever just. Theamendment will simply have the effect ofblockingthe 

tolled in the highest terms, and why not allow them to determine the way to the opening of this territory. It is a measure the effect ·Of manner in which the assent of these Indians shall be given? It is which-! will not say it is so intended-will be directly in the interest 

Democratic to allow the Cherokee Nation to say for itself in what man- of the men who say that this territory shall not be opened to actual 

ner it shall dispose of its lands to the Government. It ean .sell t9 no settlers, whatever consent may be obtained from the Cherokees, the Oboeother purchaser. taws, the Chickasaws, or other tribes. This amendment is in the same 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. Mr. Chairman, the re'ma.clc of the gen- line as other amendments presented in the early stage of this discus· 

tleman from lllinois [Mr. SPRINGER] that this would make it pos- sion. 

sible for some other tribe or tribes U> levy blackmail upon the Govern- Mr. PERKINS. When the Government of the United States was 

ment seems to me hardly justified, for the reason that before thos~ -nego~ting with the Cherokees to open the Cherokee Strip to settlement 

tribe.c; can have a status before the commissfon they must establish the to other Indians.and freedmen, was it found necessary to nego.tiate with 

fact that they have an interest-not merely that they claim an inter- ~ther Indians located there to get their ~onsent before that could be 

est, but that they have one. done? 

Again, Congress has already recognized the fact that the Creeks and Mr. WARNER. No, sir. There has been something said about the 

Seminoles have an interest in this land, for by the act of March 3, 1885, Cherokees and Chickasaws in reference to the southern portion of what 

it was provided- is now called the Territory of Oklahoma, which was in the first place 

That the President is hereby authorized to open negotiations with the Creeks leased by those tribes to the General Government? In 1866 they ceded 

Seminoles, and Cherokees for the purpose of opening to settlement under. the that land for an addi tiona! compensation of $300, 000.. The money was hom.estea.d laws the unassigned lands in said Indian Territory ceded by them paid to them for the land by the Uruted States without any condition 

respectively to the United States by the several treaties of August 11, 1866, March as to the settlement of friendly Indians, freedmen, or anybody else upon 

21, 1866• and July 19•1866 i and for that purpose the sum of $5,000, or 8 0 much 1·t. It W"·" ·ceded Wl"thout condi.ti·on to the Um"ted States. The consent thereof as may be necessary, be, and the same is hereby, appropriated out of ..., any money in the Treasury not otherwise .appropriated. his a.ction hereunder to of the Cherokees, Creeks, Seminoles, or any other Indians was never be reported to Congress. asked, nor was there ever an intimation that their consent was necessary 

Mr~ WARNER. Is there anything in the law just read by the gen- to the validity of the cession. And so it was in regard to Oklahoma. 

tleman which requires one tribe to consent for another, or which con- When the Creeks and Seminoles were treated with, what was their 

templates that each tribe can not consent for itself? opinion as to Oklahoma Tenitory? It was not suggested other Indians 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. The law expressly recognizes the fact should be settled there or that the Government should negotiate with 

that these Indians are interested-- · other Indians to get their consent to the cession. 

Mr. WARNER. Will the gentleman answer my question? Is there [Here the hammer fell.] 

a word or a syllable in the law which the gentleman bas read that re- Mr. BARNES. I move to strike out the last word. I do not pro-

- quires the consent of one tribe to be dependent upon that of another? pose to make a speech; I propose merely to read the opinion of Carl 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. This is a quotation from the act of Schurz, Secretary of the Interior, in response to what has just fallen 

1885-- · · from ilie gentleman from Missouri [Mr. WARNER]. Speaking about 

:Mr. WARNER. Will the gentleman answe:r that question? this very cession he says: · 

Mr. BA.KER, of New York. I will answer it. I have read from The title acquired by the Government by the treaties of 1866 was secured in 

the act of ~885, providing for the appointment of a commission by the pursuance and furthe-rance of the same purpose of Indian settlement wnich is 

"d th U · d S · h th I-.:a· d th the foundation of the original scheme. That purpose was the removal of In- PreSl ent of e mte tates to treat Wit ese LNianBj an at dian tribes from the limiliS of the political, State, and Territorial organizations, 

act recognizes that these Indians have an interest-- and their permanent location upon other lands sufficient for the needs of ea.ch 

Mr. WARNER. A joint interest in each piece of land? tribe. These lands being ample in area. for the purpos.e, it. has become a. settled 

BA ER f N Y k. Wl.-· h · b policy to locate other tribes thereon as fast as arrangements can be made, and 1tir. K , 0 ew or lli:l>tever t e mteresli may e-- provisions have been constantly made by treaties, agreements, and acts of Con· 

Mr. W ARNE.R. I ask the gentleman to treat this question as a law- gress to effect these objects. The purpose is expressly de()lared in the said 

yer. Let him read the law and answer whether :there is a word in it treaties. ThecessionsoftheCreeksandSeminolesarestatedtoha.vebeenmade 

f .:a h f "in compliance with the desire of the United States to locate other Indians and which m.a.kes the consent o ~me tribe depenlLent upon t e consent 0 freedmen thereon." These words must be held to create a. trust equivalent to another. . whatwonld have been imposed had the language been "for the purpose ofloMr. BA.KER, of New York. It recegnizes the fact that under the eating Indians and freedmen thereon." The lands ceded. by the Choctaws and 

treaty referred to these Indians have an interest in this TerritoTV, and Chickasaws were by article 9 of the treaty of June 22, 1855, leased to the United ~J States * * * for the permanent settlement of the Wichita. and such other 

that interest, as specified in the treaties, consists in the right to object tribes or bands of Indians as the Government may desire to locate thereon. 

to t.he Governm'8ht of the United States throwing around those lands I call attention to these words: 

a State or Ter.ritorial.form of government. F.or the permanent settlement of the Wichita and such other tribes or bands 

Now, the amendment suggested by my friend from M"lSSissippi pro- of Indians as the Government may desire to locate thereon. 

poses to recognize what has a-lready been recognized by the Congress of He continues: 

the United States in its treatment of these Indians. The treaty ofl866 substituted a direct purchase for the lease, but did not ex- MI. W A.RNER. Ur. Chairman, I submit that the amendment offered tinguish or alter the trust. 

by the gentleman from Mississippi goes to this extent: that. although It could not do so, because the lease which was made in 1855 was 

the Cherokees may consent, although the Creeks and Seminoles may made foT permanent and not for temporary settlement. 

consent, although the Chickasaws and Choctaws and every tribe or Mr. WARNER. Let me ask the gentleman a question as a lawyer. 

band of Indians interested in the proposed Territory of Oklaltoma may I lease from him a house, occupying it for a certain purpose--

consetlt, but if a band of 92 Indians should fail to give its consent, the MI:. BARNES. That is not it. 

proceedings under the commission, although all other tribes consented, Mr. WARNER. Let me ask the gentleman a question as a lawyer. 

would be nnllified. That is the effect of the amendment, stripped of I lease from him a house fQl' ten years for a certain purpose; and before · 

all verbiage. It assumes that each tribe bas a joint interest with all the expiration of-the time for which the lease runs he makes me a war· 

the other tribes. I say that the treaties were made with each tribe ranty deed without any condition, can not I occupy it for whatever 

separately. There is not a word or a line in any treaty making the purpose I may see fit? · 

disposition of land by one tribe subject to the consent of any ~ther tribe M.r. BARNES. That is not this case. 

or band. In the law read by the gentleman [Mr. BAKER], although Mr. W A.RNER. It is just this case. 

several tribes are mentioned to be treated with, there is no intimation lli. BA.RNES. It is not thls case, because in the treaty of 1855-

that the consent of the Cherokees should depend upon that of the I came, lli. Chairman, very nearly sa,ying may it please your honor, 

Choctaws or that of any other tribe named. under the suggestion of the gentleman, as if we were making a legal 

This bill simply provides that the Cherokees, who have an interest argument-but underthetreatyof1855, when the lease wa made, it was in this outlet (and what may be the interest of the Cherokees it isnn- understood that it was made for the purpose of securing a permanent 

necessary at this time to discuss), shall have a right to dispose of that home, and not fora temporary purpose. In fact, it was nota lease. The 

interest in the same way as they had a right to dispose of the 800,000 treaty of 1866 merely converts the term ''lease'' into ''purchase.'' It 

acres that they sold to Mr. Joy. So with the Creeks and Seminoles; could not change the character of the home provided for the tribe lo· 

the bill assumes that they have a right to dispose of their lands with· cated thereon from a permanent home. So Carl Schnrz, Secretary of 

out the interference or consent of the Cherokees. the Interior, in passing on this question, says: 

Mr. Chairman, we have heard some talk of corporation inilnence in The treaty of 1866 substituted a dil'ect purchase for the l€ase, but did not ex- this matter. I am not here to cry out "robber" against the cattle tinguish or alter the trust. 

syndicates or any such organization; but it is a fact that a syndicate Mr. WARNER. The gentleman says the Secretary of the Interior 

does occupy a domain equal in area to the State of Massachusetts, and says it was a lease. 

' it occupies it comparatively without money and without price, with- Mr. BA.RNES. No, I do not say so. 

·out the payment of a ~t of taxation upon any property there. Ifthe Mr. WARNER. How was it then; was it a purchase or a le:::.se? 

amendment of the gentleman from l\iississippi should be adopted, that Mr. BARNES. The Secretary of the Interior said that .. the treaty 
8124 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-=-HOUSE. AUGUST 30, 

of 1866 'Substituted a direct purchase for the lease, but did not extinguish or alter the trust." That is the opinion of the Secretary of the 

Interior, Carl Shurz, and that has been the ruling and construction of 

the Government ever since the treaty of 1866 was made. The relation 

which existed between the Choctaws and Chickasaws ofthe'one part and 

the United States Government of the ·other part under the treaty of 

1855 was the relation of lessor and lessee. The relation which existed 

between the same parties under the treaty ofl866 was vendor and vendee, but whebher the Government held as lessee or vendee, it neverthe!~ held these lands as a trustee-holding the same as a permanent 

home for the Wichi tas and such other tribes or bands of Indians as the 

Government might desire to locate thereon. The lease became a deed, 

but the trust remained the same under the deed which it was under 

the lease. I repeat, then, in the language of the Secretary, that while 

the treaty substituted a direct purchase for the lease, it did not extinguish or alter the trust. The ruling of the Department of the Inte:. 

J;ior has always been in conformity with this opinion. 

:Mr. HOOKER. Mr. Chairman, I rise to reply to what has been said 

by the gentleman on the other side as to the purpose of this amendment. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I should like first that consent should be given to 

limit debate upon this section. 

Mr. HOOKER. I shall object to th~t at present. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I hope t.he gentleman will not object. We have 

been on it for a long time. How much time does the gentleman Wfillt? 

Mr. HOOKER. I shall confine myself to the five-minute rule. 

Mr. SPRINGER. By that rule the debate is already exhausted. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will recognize the gentleman from 

Mississippi for five minutes. 

Mr. HOOKER. The words I propose to strike out in the original bill 

of the committee are the words "in legal manner to the commission 

provided for in this act,'' which are found in the second and third lines 

of section 6, and insert instead of them the words: 

By the consent of said Cherokee tribe of Indians, or any other tribe or tribes ho.ving an interest therein, which shall be first obtained by a commission ap- pointed by the ~resident of the United States; and when said commission shall ha'\"e reported that said consent of said Cherokee tribe of Indians, or any other trii.Je or tribes having an interest, has been obtained, etc. • 

Those words I propose to insert in place of the vague, uncertain, indefinite, and if I may be permitted to so designate them, inaccurate 

terms employed in the bill. 

1\Ir. SPRINGER. Allow me a moment. 

Mr. HOOKER. Not now. 

But the gentleman on the other side, the gentleman from Missouri 

[Mr. W ABNER] certainly leaves out of view in the discussion of the 

amendment I have offered the very gravamen of the amendment itself, 

as well as the object it has in contemplation, _for even your own bill, 

gentlemen, proposes to obtain the consent of every Indian tribe. 

Mr. WARNER. Certainly. . 

Mr. SPRINGER. That is all that is required. 

Mr. HOOKER. And he says that one tribe can not consent for another. 

Now, I say it is a violation of the treaty stipulations with these tribes 

to undertake to ena-ct this legislation, because yon make a Territory of 

lands contiguous to the five civilized tribes, and you do it without 

their consent at all, and yet according to your own admissions they 

have an interest. But taking the view of those gentlemen supporting 

the bill, and those who have reported it, that it is essential to get the 

consent of each tribe to be affected by this provision, you can not avoid 

the effect of your own bill in this respect, that each tribe must consent 

for itself, and that you must have the consent ofall of them, for every 

foot of land in the Indian Territory that you propose to place in this 

Territory of Oklahoma is subject to the provisions of the treaties in 

which they are interested, and since the Cherokees own thi'.4 outlet, 

necessarily yon must get their consent. Hence, before yon ~o to the 

extent of creating the Territorial form of government there, over this 

Territory, with all of the machinery and appliances belonging to a Territory of the United States, yon should appoint a commission first to 

obtain the consent of the Indians interested in this matter, and your own bill shows that you intend to do that if you are in earnest in your 

assertions. The difference is that I hold this assent should be obtained 

first. Yon claim that it may be obtained afterwards. 

1\fy proposition is that the President of the United States shall be 

authorized, lbrongh the commission proposed to be appointed, to obtain this consent in ad vance. Let the Indians assent to the proposition 

first to establish this Territory. Primarily and necessarily you must 

obtain their consent to it. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Let me interrupt the gentleman to ask a question. 

Mr. HOOKER. Certainly. 

l\!1'. SPRINGER. Do yon say that we must get the consent .of the 

five tribes before this can be done? 

1\Ir. HOOKER. Before yon can organize a Territory? 

l\Ir. SPRINGER. Yes; before we can establish a Territory west of 

them on lands 'they do not own ? 

Mr. HOOKER. Yes, sir; I do. I say that yon .are violating the 

spirit of the treaty when you undertake to establish a Territory there, 

without their consent, over any !lOrtion of this land which under the 

policy of the Government, has been, since the very fil'8-t of these treaties 

with the Indians, set apart to be known as the Indian Territory and t~ 

be exclusively used for that purpose. 

There is no foot of land in your proposed Territory of Oklahoma, except a little part of this Public Land Strip, a small parallelogram np 

here, shown on this map, containing 3,672,64.0 acres of land, unt that 

belongs to the Indians under these treaties; and I insist that of the 

lands belonging to th~ Indian Territory which was to be theirs forever 

and which was granted to them expressly by the terms of the treaties, 

you have no right to take possession and undertake to form a separate 

organization over it in the shape of a Territorial government without 

the consent of the Indians themselves. I say that they have not relinquished an interest in the Territory because they have settled actually only that portion of the Territory which is covered on this map 

by the dark lines; and the mere fact that they have not occupied the 

entire Territory is not a forfeiture under any conditions of the treaties 

of their interest in t·he balance of the Territory. All of that land remains to them, and they can not be divested of it without their own 

consent. All of it remains subject to the condition to have settled on 

it by the Government only friendly tribes, and even then by the consent of the five civilized tribes. It' your bill means what yon claim it 

does, and what it appears on its face to mean, you have got to get their 

consent. · 

My amendment is, as I have already said; that this assent shall be 

first obtained in advance of any action on the part of Congress forming 

a Territorial government over this land; that the Indians shall be con· 

suited; that their consent shall be obtained before their lands can be 

organi:r-ed into a Territory of the United States. In contradistinction 

to that amendment we have the bill of this committee which proposes 

to take possession of these lands, which by the solemn policy of this 

Government in all of its treaties from 1793 to 1866 say was intended 

to be devoted exclusively to the settlement of Indians and to the exclusion of white meu. That is the main object of my amendment, that 

the assent of the Indians shall be obtained before yon undertake to or- -

ganize this Territory. · · 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

The CHAIRMAN. Debate is exhausted. The Chair will assume 

the pro jorrna amendment to be withdrawn. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I renew it for the purpose of making a few sng· 

gestions in t•esponse to what the gentleman from Mississippi has said. 

I wish to ask the gentleman a question. Whether the gentleman 

says this as I understand him, that we can not organize a Territory ot 

this Government over these lands without the consent of the Indians? 

Mr. HOOKER. Yon mean with regard to this Oklahoma Territory? 

Mr. SPRINGER. Yes, sir. . 

Mr. HOOKER. Why, yon say so yourself. It is in your own bill. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I have reference now to the right of the Government to organize a Territory over the five civilized tribes. 

:Mr. H<?OKER. You ought to have the consent of these tribes before doing it. · 

Mr. SPRINGER. Has not my friend himselffavcfred the organization of a Territory there without the consent of the tribes? 

l\Ir. HOOKER. No, sir. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I say the gentleman has, and beg his pardon for 

so flatly contradicting him. 

Mr. HOOKER. I think the gentleman is in error. I am in favor, 

,if you make it a Territory at all, of making it an Indian Territory, With 

representation here on this floor. But I do say that yon have no right, 

in view of om- treati~ with these Indians, to take possession of their 

lands without obtaining their consent. . · 

Mr. SPRINGER. We can organize an Indian Territory over the 

whole of it without their consent. 

Mr. HOOKER. Oh, no; not except in violation ·of your pledges. 

Mr. SPRINGER. The gentleman himself has favored a biJl to that 

effect. · 

l\Ir. HOOKER. I beg the gentleman's pardon; I never did. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I think I can Bhow the gentleman that my assertion is correct. 

l\fr. HOOKER. I think the gentleman will find some difficulty in 

doing that. · Mr. SPRINGER. I hold in my hand a bill which was introduced 

in the Forty-fourth Congress, and which was reported unanimously 

from the Committee on Indian Affairs by the gentleman from Arkansas, 

Mr. Wilshire, then a member of Congress. 

Mr. HOOKER. What is the bill? 

Mr. SPRINGER. It providee for organizing the Indian Territory, 

and says: The Indian country west of Missouri and Arkansas, bounded on the east by the lines of those States, on the south by that of Texas, and on the north by that of Kansas, and on the west by that of Texas, etc., shall be and is hereby erected into a province to bear the name of the" Province of Oklahoma." 

At that time the gentleman and his committee, for he was then a member of that committee, did not undertake to call it a Territory; 

bnt it provides a Territorial government for the whole of the Indian 

Territory without the consent of the tribes; and here is a report unanimously submitted from that committee in favor of that organization. 
- I • 

1888. CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-HOUSE. 8125 

Mr. HOOKER. Read it. · I and farms, and largely e?gaged in.rai~ing cattle. The Cheroke~s, Ch<?ctawl!, 

111 SPRINGER The report goes on after descrl"bl"nu the Territory and Chickasaws ha;ve written constit~t10ns of government, laws prmted m thell' n. r. . . • . • o own and the English language, Legislatures, each composed of an upper and 

wh1ch It IS proposed to create, to explam the reasons for the use of the lower house, and county, circuit, and. supreme courts of justice. The Creeks 

word " Province " and gives an apology in the report for using that and the Seminoles have departed less from their ancient form of government; 

d · t d · 1

"T •t "b t tin th tth Ind' h d · buttheyarewellandwiselygovernedbyla.wma.kersandelectivechiefs. wo; IDS ~a of ern, ?ry, . Y S -a ~ · a e I~ns a • a preJ- The most striking t!baracteristics of these people are truthfulness, strict fidelndiCe agawst the word Tern tory,'' bemg under the ImpressiOn that ity to their promises, and singular honesty. They never betray a. trust or break 

it would give some sort of control over them that they were unwilling a. promise. They have never, in even the slightest matter, violated a treaty; 

h · d d h 't call d "p · , In th' it needs no oath to make it sure that their testimony shall be true; and they to ~ve exercise , an ence 1 was e a rov1nce. lS con- have not yet learned how to cheat their credHors by fraudulent devices. nectwn the report goes on to say: By the report of the Board of Indian Commissioners for 1872 and the tables of 

This just pride, this high and honorable sentiment, is respected by the bill 

which we submit, and its provisions in no degree diminish or affect the nationality of the civilized tribes; and respecting even their prejudice against the 

word "Territory," which seems to them to contain a menace, and against incorporation whereunto they deem themselves guarantied by treaties, we pro· 

pose to call the political organ lim contemplated by the bill, as the Romans 

called Gaul and Britain," Provinces." 

[Laughter and applause.] 

And the gentleman from Mississippi, a member then of the Committee on Indian Affairs, assented to that report. Not only that; but in 

the latter session of that Congress the gentleman assented to another 

report on a bill which proposed to organize a Terri to rial government for 

that Territory under the name of the Territory of Oklahoma. 

Mr. PAYSON. Is not that barred by the statute of limitations? 

[Laughter.] 

J,llr. SPRINGER. This is a bill to organize the a Territory " of 

Oklahoma. It does not stop at a "province," but it ''goes the whole 

hog," and proposes to organize a "Territory," with a governor, three 

judge.~, and all the usual officials, to be appointed by the President of 

the United States. That Territorial government was to be put in operation without asking the consent of any tribe in the whole Territory; 

and I have here the bill reported from the Committee on Territories 

at the last session of that Congress, to which the gentleman gave his 

assent. Does he deny that? 

Mr. HOOKER. I will reply to the gentleman. 

M:r. WARNER. I think something has been said during this discussion to the effect that the breaking up of the tribal relation is a 

violation of treaty obligations. Now, every one of these reports says 

that the only salvation of the Indians is the breaking up of the tribal 

relation, and the allotment oflands to them in severalty. 

Mr. SPRINGER. One of the provisions of this bill gives each tribe 

the right to dispose of its own lands without consulting anybody .else. 

There wM a report submitted on this subject in that Congress which 

was written by a very distinguished gentleman, Professor Seelye1 who 

was a member of the Forty-fourth Congress, and also a member of 

the Committee on Indian.AffaiJ's. Ihaveinmypossessionacopyofthe 

report written by that distinguished ·gentleman and eminent philanthropist, and submitted to this House in favor of the org-anization of 

the Territory of Oklahoma, and it COI!tained no proposition to ask the 

assent of anybody. To that report, which I will have printed with 

my remarks, the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr .. HooKER] gave his 

consent. Am I correct in that statement? 

Mr. HOOKER. We will see about that when we get there. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Yes, we will see about it. 

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. 

SPRINGER] has expired. 

Mr. HOOKER. .Mr. Chairman: I desire to say that the gentleman 

from Illinois [Mr. SPRINGER], when he looked at lihis report, if he 

had read the whole of it, would have found that the bill to whjch it 

relates proposed to organize a Territorial government for those Indians 

been. use they were civilized and capable of conducting and carrying on 

a civilized government. Why, sir, there is not a treaty made 'with the 

Indians that does not provide that they shall have the right to a Territorial government for theDISehes whenever they want it, and it was 

not in opposition to the views of these Indians, but with their consent 

and becauE>e they desired it, that any proposition of that sort was made 

here. 

.Mr. SPRINGER. I beg the gentleman's pardon. They sent a petition to the next Congress remonstrating in the most earnest and solemn terms against the proposition. 

Mr. HOOKER. On the contrary, sir, it will be found by the very 

terms of the report itself that it proposed to create these lands into a 

Territory for those Indians because they were in a civilized condition. 

I beg to ca,U attention to some portions of the report which the gentleman from illinois did not read. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I did not read it at all, but I will print it. 

Mr. HOOKER.. No; yon referred to it and endeavored to create the 

impression that there was an attempt to set up a government over these 

In<tiaos against their objection and remonstrance. 

I read from the report: 

The Cherokees, Creeks. Seminoles, C'.u.octaws, and Chickasaws are neJther n <'mads, barbarians, nor pagans. They are civilized and Christian peoples, living under settled government and laws wisely adapted to their simple needs. 

They are peaceful, law-abiding, orderly, and moral, freer of vice or crime than .almost any other people in the world. They have been more than forty years neighbors of the people of Arkansas and Missouri, and in all that time the laws 

of good neighborhood have not been broken on either side. nor bas the power of th~ United States ever had to be called upou to keep the peace upon that 

rrontler. . The men of these five tribes are agriculturists, having comfortable homes 

comparative statistics therein given it was shown that in population, number 

of acres cultivated, products, wealth, valuation, and school statistics the Indian 

Territory was equal to any one of the organized Territories of the United States, 

and far ahead of most of them. It has a. smaller area than any other and a larger population than any excepting Utah and New Mexico. It has more acres ofland under cultivation than Washington, over one-third more than Utah, 

and twice as many as Colorado or Montana. 

The bill to which that report relates was a proposition to create a Territory within the Indian Territory for the Indians. The proposition which is now submitted for a Territory to be called Okla:qoma is 

upon its face a proposition to make it a white man's Territory to the 

exclusion of the Indian. It was said by the gentleman from Iowa 

[Mr. WE.A. VER], in advocating this measure, that they wanted this 

'.ferritory to be created not because they desired to preserve the Indians, 

not because they desired to preserve the Indian Territory in its integrity in their possession, but because they desired that white men should 

enter it and take possession of it-a very different proposition from that 

which was formerly submitted and to which the gentleman from Illinois has called attention. 

I insert here a copy of the bill referred to by the gentleman from 

Illinois, being H. R. 2823 of the first session Forty-fourth Congress. 

Mr. Wilshire, from the Committee on Indian Aff~irs, reported the following bill as a substitute for the bill H. R. 1923: 

A bill to provide a government for the Indian Territory. 

Be it enacted, etc., That the Indian country west of Missouri · and Arkansas, 

bounded on the east by the lines of these States, on the south by that of Texas, on the north by that of Kansas, and on the west by that of Texas, and its west- ern line from the initial monument prolonged north ward shall be, and is hereby, erected into a province to bear the name of the Province of Oklahoma. 

SEC. 2. That from and after the passage of this act the title to their land,.. in 

the province aforesaid, of the Cherokees, Creeks, Choctaws, Seminoles, Chick- asaws, Osages, Peorias, Kaskaskias, Weas, Q.uapaws, Senecas, Shawnees, Sen- ecas and Shawnees, Ottawas, and Wyandots, shall be a fee-simple absolute, 

without possibility of reverter or escheat to the United States, and with power of absolute free disposition and alienntion and of partition and holding in sev- eralty in fee. SEC. 3. That all other rights of property of the tlibes or individual Indians in 

the said province, and the laws. customs, and usages of each tribe, and all its 

powers of domestic legislation, and the powers and i urisdiction of its courts and 

tribunals of justice, shall remain unaffected by this act, and the legislative and 

judicial power of each shall e.xtend to all persons bein~ and residing i\1 each, 

and to all corporations having franchises and property therein. 

Sxc. 4. That the Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, Seminole, and Chickasaw Nations shall be henceforward, in law, a body politic and corporate, and by such name shall have the right to act and contract, and may sue and be sued in tpe courts of the United States, and in the Court of Claims, and elsewhere assert and 

maintain any cause of action, right, claim, or demand for moneys due tliem by the United States, legal or equitable, by virtue of treaty, contract, or otherwise, 

and to be heard therein by counsel of their own choice; and for any cause of 

action, ez contractu or ez delicto, for use and occupation or waste. may sue in the 

circuit court of the United States for the State or district in which such corpora.- tion has its domicil 

SEc. 5. That the citizens of each of said nations shall have the like right to sue in the Court of Claims upon any just demand against the United States un- der treaty or act of Congress. SEc. 6. That there shall be a governor of the province of Oklahoma, appointed by the President, with the advice and consent of the Senate, and a provincial 

secretary in like manner appointed1 each for the term of four years, revocable 

by the President at pleasure; and tnere shall be paid to the governor a salary of $3,000, and to the provincial secretary a salary of $2,000, each payable quar- terly at the Treasury of the United States. 

SEC. 7. That there shall be a legislative council for the said province, to be 

styled the provincial council, whereof the Cherokee, Creek, and Choctaw Nations shall each have two councilors; the Seminole, Chickasaw, and Osage Nations one each; and the small tribes named in the second section of this act collectively one; each to be elected by the qualified voters of his nation, tribe, or tribes, and to hold his office for the term of four years from the lst day of October next after his election : Providtd, That all male citizens of any of said tribes or nations, over the age of twenty-one years, who may have resided in such n·a. tion six months prior to any election held therein under this act, except idiots, 

lunatics, and persons convicted of a felony, shall be qualified voters at any election held under the provisions of this act. · SEc. 8. That the members of the provincial council shall convene at the seat of government of the province on the first Monday of October, 1876, and on the same day of every second year thereaft.er; and the governor shall appoint one of them to be the president of the council, who shall appoint a secretary and a. sergeant-at-arms; and the council shall be invested with the functions of a pro- vincial legislature, with power to legislate in regard to all matters of .intertribal 

and general interest nor interfering with the local legis1ation of each nation 

and tribe, nor contravening any Ia w of the United States, and to enact laws pro- viding for the administration of the property of persons not citizens of ci ther of 

the nations named above dying in said province, or elsewhere, when such property is found in the province, and regulating whatever may concern the affairs 

of the province at large. SEc. 9. That the provincial council shall be the exclusive judge of the elections and qualifications of its own members. None of its enactments shall have 

force of law without the approval of the governor. It shall not sit more than 

twenty days at any one time, and the governor may, by proclamation, convene it at any time in special session. Its members shall be paid $5 per day for every 

day while in session, and for every 35 miles· travel going and returning 

from and to their homes. The secretary shall be paid $5 for each day, and the 

sergeant-at-arms $3 for each day, while the provincial council is in session, ou' 

of the Treasury of the United States, upon the certificate of the president of the 

council, approved by the e;overnor, and through the marshal of the province. SEc. 10. That the seat of government of the p_rovince shall be at Eufaula, in 

the Creek country, where the governor and secretary shall renide and the prg.o vincial council shall hold its sessions. 
8126 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. AUGUST 30, 

SEc. 11. That the provincial council may create corporations for purposes ot internal improvement and manufacturing, but shall charter no bank and create no provincial debt. It shall pass such laws as ms.y be :;::.ecessary to preserve peace and harmony among the nations and tribes, secure the apprehension and delivery of crimina.U! and fugitives i'rom: justice, and fraudulent debtors from at1y State or elsewhere, rid the province of vagabonds and worthless and desperate persons, and protect the general rights and interests of the people; but shall have no power to levy taxes or impose excise or other duties or im- posts under any guise or pretense ·whatever. SEC. IZ. That the governor shall have the whole executive power, and shall see faithfully executed, everywhere in the province, the laws of the United States in force therein and the laws of the provincial council, and in each nation or tribe its local and domestic laws, customs, and nsa;ges, to which end he shall have power, whenever it may be necessary, to call for aid upoa the military force of the United States, to act. under the direction of the marshal or other officer avpointed by the governor, and in other respects. the governor and pro- vincial secreta.ry sha.ll have the powers and perform the duties. so far as may be consistent with the purposes of t.his act, of the governors and secretaries of state of any State of the Union. 

SEC. 13. That there shall be created for the said province a. provincial ~ircuit 

court, to be composed of a chief judge and two associate judges, citizens of the United States, each •ppointed by the President, with the advice and consent of the Senate, commissioned for six years, and removable only by impea.chmen~ 

each of whom shall reside at the seat of government of the province, and receive a salary of $3,500 per annum, payable quarterly, out of the Treasury of the United States; a. provincial att-orney and a. marshal of the province, to be in like manner appointed, and removable at the pleasure of the President, each of whom shall reside at the seat of government of the province; t.he sal- ary of the attorney shall be $1,500 per annum, and the salary and compensation of the marshal shall be the same as that allowed the marshal of the Territory of New MexicO'. SEc •. M. That the said provincial circuit court shall have the powers and juris- diction of both a. district and circuit; court of the United States, within and for the whole of said province, so far as the laws of the. United States may be. in force therein, in civil and criminal matters, and in matters of seizure and ad- miralty jurisdictic;m, and to enforce the laws enacted by the provincial couneil. SEc. 15. That each of the nations above named may, as a. body politic and cor:- porate, sue any persons, not its own citizens, in said district court sitting as a. circuit court, upon any cause of action, legal or equitable, upon contract or for tort, and have such judgruent, decree, and relief as of right it should have. And the said court shall also have jurisdiction of civil suits at law or in equity, 

by one of said nations· against another, or between citizens or a. citizen of one of said nations and a citizen or citizens of another; and this jurisdiction shall attach, although of two ol.' more plaintiffs all may not be of a nation or nations different from that of all or part of the- defendants, it one plainlltf be a. citizen of one nation and one defendant of another. But the said court shall have no iurisdiction of any suit by an individual or indi.vidua.Is, or by a. corponLtion, 

against either of said nations. SEC. 16. That the said court shall also have jurisdiction of suits at· law or in equity, ingjtuted by e ,ther of the said nations Ol.' tribes, or any of its citizen or citizeruJ, against any corporation not domiciled in said province, but having 

franchises.. property, or interests therein, and between eUher of the said nations and tribes, and a citizen or citizens of the United States or a corporation; but no corporation or citizen of the United States shall have right of action in said court against any citizen or citizens of said nations or tribes, except on ·con- tracts made, and other causes of action arising, after the passage of this aet: Pramded, That the said court shall not have jurisdiction of any suit at law or in equity between individuals, or between a. corporation and an individoa.l.or in- dividuals, unless the amount in controversy, or the value of the thing in eon- troversy, is not less than $500 • . SEc. 17. That the rules of practice and mod.es of procedure in the said provin- cial court, and the forms of writs and modes of sfunmoning and compelling at- tendance of witnesses and jurors, shall be the same as in the circuit court of the United States for Missouri; and the fees of bailiff, witnesses, and jurors shall be the same as in that court, with the same allowances for traveling expenses as . are allowed by Ia w thel'ein. 

SEc. 18. That the whole province of Oklahoma shall constitute one judicial 

circuit, divided into threejudicialdistricts: First, the Cherokee district, consist- ting of all the province lying north of the conn try owned by the Choctaws and Chickasaws and Creeks in 1850; second, the Creek district, consisting of the country owned by the Creeks arid Seminoles in 1850; and, third, the Choctaw 

district, consisting of the countl.'y owned by the Choctaws and Chickasaws in 

1850. SEC. 19. That there shall be six terms of the said provincial circuit court {any two of the judges constituting a q no rum) holden in each year, each to contm ue not more than thirty days: two at Tahlequah, in the Cherokee district, on the fust Mondays of April and October; two at Okmulkee, in the Creek district, on the fust ~fondaysofMayand November; and two at Atoka, in the Choctaw district, on the first Mondays of June and December; and ea.ch ,of said COD1'ts shall pro- ceed in civil and criminal matters in all respects as the circuit and district courts of the United. States, and appeals and writS" of error from the final judgments and decrees of said provincial district and circuit court may be taken or prose- cuted in the same manner and with like effect as appeals and writs of error are taken and prosecuted from the United StaLes district and circuit courts-o.f the State of Missouri. SEC. 20. That· the judges shall appoint a clerk of the court for each district, 

who shall reside and have his office at the place the"Tern where the court for his district is held. The marshal or a. deputy marshal shall attend-each session of . the court, and the mai"Shal shall have such numoer of deputies, and no more, as the court shall, upon his application, authorize; and no deputy shall act until his appointment is approved by the court. or one of the judges thereof. The judges may also appoint a ba.ilitl' of the court in each district, and fix his com- pensation, and as many interpreters as may be necessary, and fix their compen- sation· and the a.ccounts of the marshal, for all costs allowances, and expenses paid, shall be settled and approved by the court, and be pa.itl upon the certifi- cate of two of the judges. SEc. 2L That the marshal and his deputies and bail:.ifrs shall be citizens of one or other of the nations or tribes of Indians inhabiting the said province; and all of such Indians who can understand the English language when spoken shall be competent jurors, grand and petit, of the said court, in all cases what- ever. 

SEc. 22. That civil suits at law or in equity against individuals shall be in- stituted bi the court of the district in which the defendant Ol' one of the defend- ants may reside or be found; and when, of several defendants, some reside in other districts, process may be ser\red upon them where they reside or may be found. Criminal prosecutions shall be instituted in the districts. where the ac- cused may reside, if he have a residence in the province, and, if no~ then where he may be found. SEc. 23. That so soon as the clerks of said courts are appointed and enter upon the discharge of their duties, the clerk of the district court of the United States for the western district of Arkansas, on being notified thereof, shall transmit to the provincial secretary all indictments and other papers in criminal cases in that court pending against any and all persons charged with t.he commission of offenses in the Indian country, and exemplifications of the record in each 

such case, which shall have the same force and effect in all respects as the origi- nal record if authenticated by the certificate of the clerk and seal of the court· and the provincial secretary shall transmit such indictments, papers, and exem~ plifica.tions to the clerks of the courts in the respective divisions in which the defendants resided when the offenses were committed; or if they did not reside in either, or if it is not known in which they resided, then to the clerk of the court for the ·first division; and on receipt thereof by such clerk of either di- vision, the district court of the province sitting for that division shall be pos- sessed of. and have complete and full jurisdiction of, the case, as if the parties had been indicted therein. SEc. 24. That persons so mdicted, who may be In custody. shall be so held until duly demanded by writ of habeas corpus, for the purpose of trial or oth- erwise, by said district court of the province; and persons so indicted who may have been bailed and be at large on bail shall appear at the first term of the court for the district to which their cases may thus have been transferred, or t.heir bail be forfeited; and all witnesses summoned or recognized to appear in such case shall in like man neT appear before the court to which the jurisdiction of the case in which they are to testify may be tra.nsfeued. held for the division in which such cases are to be tried. SEc. 25. That the records of the courts of general and appellate jurisdiction of the Cherokees, Choctaws, Creeks, Seminoles, and Chickasaws shall have t.he same faith and credit, and their judgments and decrees the same force and ef- fect everywhere, a& the records, judgments, and decrees of courts of the Terri- tories of the United States; and exemplifications of the records and proceedings of such courts, when authenticated like those of the courts of the States under the laws of the United States, shall have the same fo1·ce and effect as thos~ of such courts of the United States. SEc. 26. That. the courts of tbe said nations shall have power and jurisdiction ·to eniorce the civil and criminal laws of their respective nations. except as to offenses punishable under the laws of the United States alone, within the terri- torial limits of each, S.,.,O'fl.inst all persons found therein, and all corporations there domiciled, having property, contracting or offending, with like power to en- force their judgments and decrees as the courts of general jurisdiction of the Territories of the United States. SEc. Z'l. That the governor shall appoint such notaries public in each nation as may be desired1 and fix the fees to be charged by each, and the provincial council may define their powers, and tb ... ir acts done in J?Ursuance of such laws shall be valid and ha~e the same effect as those of notaries public in Louisiana. SEc. 28. That the notaries public so appointed, and the judges of the several coul'ts of said nations, shall have the power to solemnize the rites of matri- mony. 

SEc. 29. That until the provincial council sha.U enact laws to prevent the in- troduction for sale into said province of spirituous and intoxicating liquors, any person who shall, from any place beyond the limits of said province, introauce, carry, or send into any part of said province, any spirituous and intoxicating 

liquors, intended to be sold and retailed therein, shaH, on conviction thereof in said district court, be punished under the laws now in force in regard to such offense; bu.t it shall not be unlawful for any one to impo.rt into said province such liquors for his own use or for medicinal purposes; and no other provisions ot the laws in regard to the introduction of liquors into the Indian country shall hereafter be in force in the Cherokee, Creek, Seminole, Choctaw, or Chick· asaw country. SEC. 30. That the United States will, a~ the request of either of sa.id nations, cause to be surveyed the lands owned by it, and each nation may establish land offices, and thereat sell the same at such prices as its Legislature may fix, and may also establish offices of regisby and record of patents, conveyances, wills, and other instruments. SEC. 3L That inasmuch as the Choct-aws and Chickasaws are joint owners of the lands occupied by both, the consent of both nations musli be had before a.ny of their lands can be sold or disposed of; and if they ea.n not agree upon divis- ion of themF either of those nations may file in the district court of the prov- ince, sitting as a. circuit court, its bill in equity, to have pa.rt:ition of the joint 

lands, according to their respective rights and interests, by commissioners, un- der decree of the court, to be proceeded in and carried into eftect e:s other suits and decrees in equity; service of subprena. or other process on the principal chief of the defendant nation being sufficient. SEC. 32. That" the offices of superintendeD~ of Indian a.Jl'airs for the. South- western superintendency, and of agents for the Cherokees, Creeks, Seminoles, 

Choctaws, Chickasaws, Senecas, and other small tribes in the second section of this act mentioned, are hereby abolished, and the papers of a.ll such offices shall be plaeed in the custody of the· provincial secretary; and the agents for the other tribes ih said province shall hereafter be under the supervision and con- trol of the governor of the province, and report to him. SEC. 33. That the governor of such protince shall cause to be selected and designa.ted by p:1etes and bounds reservations for the various bands of the Comanches or Neums, and of the Ca.ia.was, in that part of !!aid province that lies west of the ninety·eighth parallel of west longitude and south of the Arkansas RiYer, and shall, if practicable, by negotiation, induce the said bands to settle thereon and to engage in stock-raising and' agriculture; to which end he may agree, ou the part ofth.e United States, to furnish them with cattle, implements ofhnsbandry, and other articles necessary to their comfort, and may employ proper persons to assist them in their agricultural labors, and physicians to reside among them, at such rates of compensation as he may find necessary to secure tbe services of competent and fit persons, for which purpose he may draw from time to time the necessary sums from the Treasury of the United States, out of any moneys in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated. SEC. 34. That there shall be erected, under the direction and supervision of the go-vernor of the province. a. house and other necessary buildings for th.e gov- ernot; and oftlces for himself and the secretaTy, at the seat of government of the province, and court-houses and office..<f for the clerks and marshals at Tahle- quah, Okmulk:ee, and Atoka., of modest dimensions and at moderate cost, ac- cording to pla.ns and estimates to be prepared by tbe Secretary of War or "under his direction; the account therefor shall be audited by the governo:r and paid at the Treasury of the United States; and the necessary safes, furniture, books, and seats, stationery. and other articles for the several courts and offices shall be purchased by the provincial secretary, and the accounts be audited at the Treasury; and estimates for all salaries and other provincial expenditures shall be in due time furnished by the Secretary of the Treasury, with those for ex- penses of Territories. SEc. 35. That one Delegate, to be entitledtoa.seatin theHouseofRepresentatives or the. United States., to represent the people of said province, with the same privileges, rights, and compensation as Delegates from the Territories, may hereafter be elected by the qualified electors in the said province. Such 

Delegate shall be a citizen of some one of the nations or tribes composing said province, and the elections for the same shall be holden on the first Monday ot September, in the year 1876, and every two years thereafter, at the several 

place.s for voting in the several nations or t-ribes, in accordance with the elec- tion Jaws of ea-ch; and the retuYns of such elections sha.U be made to the pro- vincial secretary who shall cast up and arrange the same in t.he presence of the governor of the province; and the governor shall is.-rue, under the seal of- said province. a. certificate of election to the person receiving the highest num- be.r of votes for such Delegate, which shall be countersigned by the secretnry o! the province. 

SEC. 36. That when the lands or the Cherokees, Crcel:s, Seminoles, Choctaws. 
1888. OONGRESSIONAL'RECORD-=HOUSEQ 8127 

Chickasaws, and Osages shall have been patented in severalty among the-people of said nations or tribes, with title in fee in each individual entitled to the same, after making reservation of one thirty-sixth part thereof for purposes of education, the people of said province may assemble in convention by their delegat.es, in pursuance of regulations to be prescribed by the provincial coun- cil; and adopt a Sta te const itution, to be presented to the Congress of Lhe United States, for admission as a Sta te; such constitution shall have no force or effect for any purpose whatever until the same shall be acted upon and approved by 

Congress. . 

It will be observed, Mr. Chairman, that the question up for consideration in the Forty-fonrth Congress on the 24th March, 1876 (see 

CoNGRESSIONAL RECORD, Forty-fourth Congress, first session, page 

1!}48), was not whether t-he bill should pass or even be considered, but was up on a contest of jurisdiction between the Committee on Territories and the Committee on Indian .Affairs as -t-o which should have 

jurisdiction of the subject-matter. . When the question as t-o which one of these committees should have 

cognizance of this bill, the Committee on Territories or the Committee on Indian Affairs, wru~ pending before the House, I submitted the following remarks, which will be found in exact accord with the sentiments expressed by me not four days ago, in this deba~e, as follows: 

Mr. HoOKER. I desire to say simply a word upon the proposition presented to this House by the m otion of the g entleman from Ohio [Mr. Southard]. Useems to me that this subject-matter necessarily and properly pertains to the Committee on Indian Affairs, for the reason that prime among the subjects and objects of that committee is the mak.ini! provision for taking care of the interests of the In- dians.. U this was sim.ply a. proposition to organize an ordina,'ry Territorial gove rnment with a homogeneous American population resident in the Terri- tory, it would be very proper and right and seemly that the Committee on Ter- ritories should have exclusive jurisdiction of the subject. But inasmuch as the question of governing the Indians. by constructing a Territorial form of govern- ment for them is a question sui generis. and not like that referred to by the gen- tlema n from Ohio in regard to organizing a Territory of homogeneous Ameri- can population with a view to final admission as a State, I think the.re can be no que stion as to the jurisdiction of the Committee on Indian Affairs over this bill. . 

It is very well known to the House that in this Indian .Territoey there are various tribes or Indians, differing in numbers, differing in the legi!llation which prevails in their reSpective councils, and differing in their right of representa- tion in their local legislatures. It therefore presents a very peculiar question, and not one such as is ordinarily presented to the consideration of the House upon a proposition to organize a Territorial government upon the showing that a. certain Territory possesses the requisite amount of population. The prima.ry 

question is, whether the government for the Indians should be a government like that to which we would subject an ordinary territory consisting of Ameri- can citizens; and this is a very different question from that usually presented with reference to the organization of a. Territoria.l government. This question has beeu elaborately considered by the Committee on Indian ~irs. A very large amount of proof has been taken pro and con. Quite a number of gentlemen distinguished for their fidelity to the Indiaru~-many of t-hem Indians t,hemselves, some of the whole blood and some of the half blood- have been before this committee and have expressed their opinions with refer- encetothequestionbothora.llyandin writing. It is well known that a difference of opinion exists among prominent a.nd intelligent men of. the Indian tribes themselves and those who thoroughly understand their interests as to the policy of organizing the Indians into a Territorial form of government. Some conceive that' the Indians have anived at- such a.. point of intelligence with reference to their own affairs and their own interests and the protection of their own right-s as to fit them to be organized under a Territorial form of government looking finally to their admission into the Union. Bu~ it must be remembered thaL there are five nations of civilized tribes in this territory, whil.e there are othe1·s who can not probably be so classed. All these interests being 

involved, the question as to their representation in a Territorial government is a subject which properly pertains to the Committee on Indian AiTairs.' In answer to the remark of my friend from Ohio [Mr. Southard] that the rules of the House give authority over this subject to the Committee on Terri- tories, and that n<>rule gives it to the Committee on Indian Affairs, I may very properly say that the' other day, when the Committee on Appropriations, pre- sided over with so much ability by my friend from Pennsylvania [Mr. RAN· 

DALL l, which seems to draw to itself almost everv subject and topic of legisla- tion that can be presented for the consideration of the House-when that com- mittee reported the other day in the general appropriation bill a proposition to· transfer the Indian Bureau from the Interior Department to the War Depart- ment they were in my humble judgment trenching upon the functions of the Committee on Indian Affairs, who, though their special duties have not been defined under the' rules, have confided to their hands the great question of the interests and ma'n.agement of the Indians and the proper mode of carrying out the faith of the Govermnent as expressed in the treaties with the various Indian tribes. The Committee on Appropriations, I say, undertook to handle that question to the exclusion, in my judgment, of the committee to which it prop- edy pertains. And now, when a bill has been reported, wben proof has been taken and pre- sented to the House, and leave asked that it be printed and recommitted for further consideration, I do not think the House will conser;1t to take this matter from thecommittee to which properly pertain the management. and _control of this question and transfer it to the Committee on Territories, whose functions are simply to present bills for the organization of Territories when the popula- tion is homogeneous, not when it is 8Ui generi.!, as is the case with the Indians. When the Indian Committee shall have passed upon this question. with all the proof it has taken and all the lights before it, it may conclude that a certain form of government ought to exist. But it can not be supposed that an ordinary Territorial form of government would be adapted to the condition, the wants, the necessitie.s, and the respective rights of these various Indian tribes. Why? For t,he simple and obvious reason that if in the Indian Territory you organize a Tenitorial government in the ordinary form and manner, the control of that government will in a few years be possessed, necessarily in a large degree, by those who are not Indians. This, in my Yiew. would be the effect of the organ- ization of a Territorial government in the ordinary form for the. Indian Terri- tory. · 

For these reasons I agree with my colleague on the committee in the motion he has made to refer this question to the Committee on Indian Affairs, by whom it has long been considered. 

The honorable gentleman.from lllinois has allndCd in terins of great 

commendation to the position of Professor Seelye, of New York, who was on the Committee on Indian Affairs at the time when the bill to 

which the gentleman has referred was reported from the Committee on Indian Affairs in the Forty-fourth Congress. Now, what was Mr. Seelye's position in reference to this bill? His views will be found on 

page 1948 of the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, Forty-fourth Congress, .first 

session, a..s follows: Mr. SEELYE. Mr. Speaker, the question bow this Territ-ory shall be organized must of course depend upon the question whether it shall be organized at all, and the question whether it shall be organized at all depends primarily upon the wish of the Indians themse lves and upon actual treaty stipulations with these Indians; and if that is not a. question which primarily and p1·operly and exclusively belongs to the Indian Commissioner for consideration, I do not know what question does. U it does not, it is about time, I think, the Ind.iS.n Com- missioner _was entirely abolished. I demand the previous question. 

And the Honse refused t-o refer the bill to the Committee on Territories, and did refer it back to the Committee on Indian Affairs. . It 

will thus be seen, Mr. Chairman, that when the_ reference of the bill 

in the Forty-fourth Congress was up for consideration what were then 

my views on the rights and interests of the Indians, and what was the' 

best method of protecting them. And it will also be seen that. the 

opinion of Professor Seelye was whether there should be any Territory 

organized at all, and then if at all upon the wish of the Indians themsalves and upon actual treaty stipulation with these Indians. 

How different, Mr. Chairman, was tlie proposition made in the Fortyfourth Congress, and that now pending. 

This is a proposition to take one half of the Indian Territory and 

make of it a Territory to be occupied by white men who shall be re- quired to pay $1.25 an acre for the land. That is what it is, and it iB 

said to be done .on the plea that it is for 500,00{) landless, homeless 

people in the United States that you d~sire to make this-Territorial 

government. In treaties we made we secured the right that they 

should be admitted as a Territory of their own, nota white man's Ter- ritory, but an Indian Territ-ory, in which the Indian should be allowed 

representatives both in this House and ·in the other, and so far as the 

plea is made that there are no lands for occupancy, I will say it was 

well said by the gentleman from New York in his speech when alluding to the number of acres of public land we still had. He says: 

Adding the surveyed undisposed-of lands, 63,000,000, leaves a t-otal o£719,339,- 332 acres available outside of the Territory of Alaska and the Indian Territory: 

So that only an Oklahoma boomer may be apprehensive of the ex- haustion of the reservation of the United States in its public land...~ 

Now~ Mr. Chairman, surely the honorable gentleman from Illinois 

[Mr. SPRINGER] did not desire t-o mislead the committee by saying 

that this bill now under consideration was in the slightest degree like 

the bill of 1876 in the Forty-fourth Congress. The one proposes to preserve all the rights, laws, and citizenship of -the five semi-civilized 

tribes, and clothes them alone with the power t-o vote in said territories, and expressly preseiTes their tribal organization and tribal laws. 

This bill proposes to take their land vi et armis, and sell it at a price 

fixed, not by the owners, the Indians, but fixed. by the legal marauders 

who, under this law, have determined t-o have this specific land and none other, though there are 700,000,000 acres of public land yet open 

for occupancy. 

The plea that this must be done in the name of the landless and 

homeless laborers of the country is t-oo shallow .and thin to impose on 

the credulity of the simplest and most uninformed mind . Sir, this wrong may be perpetrated and one-half of this Territory, so · solemnly conveyed to these Indians fo.r their homes forever, converted 

into a Territory for white men, which mea"Ds the exclusion and iinal ex- tinction of the Indians. But it will be a wrong committed by the strong 

against the weak, which willleave a foul blot on thenation'.s honor and · ·good name. Mr. SPRINGER. I simply wanted to remind the gentleman that 

in the Forty-fonrth Congress he was in favor of organizing a government in the Indian Territory. I withdraw the fo.rmata.mendment. 

The question was put, and· the Chairman reported that the noes 

seemed to have it. 

Mr. HOOKER. I call for a division. 

The Honse divided; and there were-ayes 11, noes 65. 

Mr. HOOKER. No quorum. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I am afraid we will not be able to get aquortllD. 

and I hope the gentleman will not make this point. Only eleven have 

voted "ay," and this demand for a quorum can not be for the purpose 

of ascertaining the views of the Honse. If the gentleman will withdraw the point of no quorum, I will agree that he may have an ayand-no vote in the House on his amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will appoint the gentleman from Mis- sissippi [Mr. HooKE.R] and the gentleman fromlllinois [Mr. SPRINGER] 

as tellers. 

The eommittee again divided; and the tellers reported there wereayes 19, noes 99. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I ask that the roll be called. . The CHAIRMAN. Under the rule, the committee having found 

itself without a quorum, the Clerk will <:all the roll. 

The roll was called, when the following members failed -to answer to 

their names: 

Allen, Mass. Allen, Mich. Allen, Miss. Arnold, 

Barry, 

Belden, 

Belmont, 

Biggs, 

Bingham, 

Blanchard, 

Bliss, 

Boothman, 

Boutelle, 

Bowden, 

Brewer, 

Brower, 

Brown, Ohio Buchanan, 

Buckalew, 

Burnett, 

Buuows, 

Campbell, Ohio 

Campbell,T.J.,N.Y. 

Candler, 

Carlton, 

Catchings, 

Clardy, 

Clark• 

, 
8128 CONGRESSIONAL REOORD==-HOUSE. AUGUST 30, 

Collins, Hayden, :McKinney, Cooper, Haye , :r.Icl\'lillin, 

Cox, Hemphill, McRa-e, 

Crain, Henderson, ill. McShane, 

Culberson, Hermann, Merriman, 

Cummings, Hiestand, Milliken, 

Cutcheon, Hires, 1\fiUs, 

Dalzell, Hopkins, Ill. Montgomery, 

Dargan, Hopkins, N.Y. Morrill, 

Darlington, Houk, :Morse, 

Davenport, Hovey. Norwood, 

Davidson, Ala. Howard, O'Donnell, 

Davidson,Fla. Hudd, O'Neill,Pa. De La no, Hunter, Owen, 

Dingley, Jackson, Peel, 

Dorsey, Johnston, N.C. Perkins, 

Dougherty, Jones, Peters, 

Dunham, Kennedy, Phelps, 

Finley, Kerr, • Pidcock, 

Fisher, Ketcham, Plumb, 

FitchJ Lag-an, Pugsley, 

Flooa, Laidlaw, Randall, 

Ford, Landes, Rayner, 

Gaines, Lawler, Reed, 

Gay, • Long, Robertson, 

Glover, Lyman, Rockwell, 

Granger, Macdonald, Rowell, 

Greenman, 1\fa:ffett, Russell, Mass. 

Grosvenor, Maish, Rusk 

Grout, Matson, Sefm'our, 

Guenther, McAdoo, Sha.w, 

Hare, McComas, Sherman, 

Hatch McKinley, Shively, 

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will now rise. 

Simmons, 

Sowden, 

Spinola, 

Spooner, 

Stahlnecker, 

Stephenson, 

Stewart, Tex. 

Stewart, Vt. 

Ta.rsney, 

Taylor, E. B., Ohio 

Taylor, J.D., Ohio 

Thomas, Ky. Thomas,lll. 

Thomas, Wis. 

Thompson, Cal. 

Tillman, 

Turner, Ga. 

Vance, 

Wade1 Washmgton, 

Weber, 

West, 

White, N.Y. 

Whiting, Mich. 

Whiting, l'tiass. Wickham, 

Wilher, 

Wilkins. 

Wilson, W. V11. 

Woodburn. 

The committeeaccordinglyrose; and 1\Ir. CRISP having resumed the 

chair as Speaker pro tempore, Mr. DoCKERY, from the Committee of 

the Whole, reported that the committee had found itself without a 

quorum, had mused the roll to be called, and had directed him to report the names of the nbsentees. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. One hundred and sixty-six members 

have answered to their names-more than a quorum, and the committee will resume its session. 

The committee accordingly resumed its session, Mr. DocKERY in 

the chair. 

The CHAIRUAN. The Chair will announce the vote at the time the 

roll was ordered to be called. On the amendment of the gentleman 

from Mississippi [Mr. HooKER] there were-ayes 19: noes 99. The 

tellers will resume their places, and gentlemen who have not voted will 

please pass between the tellers. 

The Honse again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 20, noes 

109. 

:M.r. PAYSON. I would like to suggest to the gentleman from illinois [1\Ir. SPRINGER] that while a technical quorum is here, there is 

not a voting quorum, and as it is near the time for adjournment, I 

think it would be wise to rise and adjourn. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I would like to accommodate the gentleman. 

While a quorum will not probably vote upon this proposition we would 

be required to stay here until5 o'clock. But it seems to me that as only twenty gentlemen voted for the amendment., the gentleman ought 

to be satisfied and let the vote which has been taken determine his 

amendment. 

1\Ir. HOOKER. Regular order. 

The CHAIRMAN. The tellers will take their places. 

Mr. ROGERS. I move that the committee do now rise. 

Mr. PAYSON. Regular order. [Cries of "Vote!"] 

Mr. SPRINGER. I do not see any necessity of staying here. If 

gentlemen will-proceed with the consideration of the bill, I am ready 

to go on; but if not, I will move that the committee do now rise. 

Mr. ROGERS. I will withdmw my motion. _ The committee according rose; and Mr. CRISP having taken the chair 

as Speaker pro tempore, Mr. DocKERY reported that the committee had 

had under consideration the bill H. R. 10614, and had comet~ no reso1ution thereon. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I offer the resolution which I send to the Clerk's 

desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, That the Sergeant-at-Arms be instructed to telegraph all members 

who are absent from the city, unless absent on account of sickness of themselves or their families, that their presence here is required immediately in order that 

the public business may be transacted. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there o'Qjection? 

Mr. SPRINGER. This resolution is for the pnrpo~e of procuring the 

presence of membl!rs of the House, and the Speaker the other day decided such a resolution presented a privileged question when the question was up at that time. 

Mr. PAYSON. I desire to make a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. Does the gentleman· make a point of 

order? 

Mr. PAYSON. The question is whether a resolution of this kind 

could be adopted without first revoking the leaves of absence which 

have been granted. To telegraph for members who are absent on leave 

from the Honse seems to be entirely out of order unless the leaves already granted them should first be -revoke<l: And I make the inquiry 

whether that should first be done? 

Mr. SPRINGER. Certain leaves of absence were revoked, and since 

that time other gentlemen have been excused. The Honse has the 

right to compel the attendance of its members at any time. 

Mr. PAYSON.' Without revoking the additional leaves? 

Mr. SPRINGER. This is not a resolution to arrest the members 

but simply a statement that their presence is required. ' 

Mr. PAYSON. I think they ought to be here; but as a preliminary 

perhaps the a-dditional leaves ought to be revoked before wego throu.;.h 

the empty performance of telegr .... phing to members. 0 

1\Ir. SPRINGER. There is no penalty attached to this. I want to 

call the attention of the House to the fact that a certain important 

matter has been set for c:msideration on Saturday, and it is necessary 

that the members of the Honse should be here. 

This is ~mply ~n earn~st re9-uest to members who are absent, and 

whose busmess w1ll perm1tthe1r attendance, that they should put in an 

appearance at as early a time as possible. I think no gentleman ought 

to object to it, because we have spent half of this day waiting for members to come in to make a quorum. 

Mr. JOHNSTON, of Indiana. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 

Did not the last roll-call show the presence of a quorum? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It did. 

Mr. JOHNSTON, of Indiana. Then, as a quorum is here, I see no necessity for the resolution of the gentleman from Illinois, unless he 

can couple with it some proposition which will compel members to vote 

when they are in the Hall. . 

Mr. SPRINGER. This resolution is notoffered with a view of compelling the attendance of members. It does not propose the issue of 

·writs for their arrest; that ,may become necessary after awhile. This · 

is simply a statement from the House to absent members that, in the 

condition of our business, their presence here is required. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Will the gentleman from Illinois be 

kind enough to refer the Chair to the rule under which he claims that 

this resolution is privileged? · 

Mr. SPRINGER. I will do so. 

Mr. WHEELER. In the mean time" I wish to amend the resolution 

by substituting the word "requested" for "required." 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. No amendment can now be entertained. The question of order must first be determined, whether the 

resolution is privileged and is before the House for consideration. 

Mr. CANNON. This is a proposition, I believe, to send telegrams 

to absent members urging them to come here. That is the motion, I 

believe? 

The SPEAKER pro ie-mpo1'e. That is the substance of it. 

Mr. CANNON. Now, I wish to ask the Chair and the House what 

efficacy there will be in sending telegrams to absent members? It has 

been proclaimed that there is need for immediate legislation to enable 

ns to retaliate against Canada ; and the ''leader of the House,'' the 

gentleman from 'l'exas [Mr. MILLS], stated the other day in Chicago, 

according to the report in the public prints, that "11he British lion was 

to be taken by the snout forthwith." Now, if such an announcement 

as that will not bring him here, do you suppose that a poor littJe telegram will do so? I think the sending of telegram3 as proposed would 

be only a useless expense. 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. Let the expense of the telegrams be 

charged to the absent members. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the present consideration of the resolution submitted by the gentleman from Illinois? 

Mr. CUMMINGS. I object. · Mr. SPRINGER. I submit that this is a question of privilege. 

Mr. CUMMINGS. I object, because telegrams were sent members 

one week ago and when members had answered those telegrams by 

their presence the very day of their arrival leaves of absence were 

granted to others. It seems to met~ beafutile proceeding to summon 

members here by telegraph and then at the same time keep on granting 

leaves of absence. 

Mr. WEAVER. ' I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. Is this resolution subject to objection? Is not the resolution in order? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair was inclined to think the 

resolution could not be entertained except by unanimous consent. The 

gentleman from Illinois, however, said that he would refer the Chair to 

the rule under which the resolution is in order. Gentlemen will bear 

in mind the marked distinction between the present case and the condition of bti.siness when less than a quorum is endeavoring to secure 

the attendance of a quorUlll. 

Mr. WEAVER. The Chair can request members to come in from the 

cloak-room and vote; ~d certainly the House can request members to 

come from any part of the country. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The Chair has no doubt that the House can do so; but the question is whether this resolution is in order at this 

time. The rules provide that resolutions shall be referred to committees; and unless there is something that takes this resolution ont of 

that ordinary rule, it is clearly not in order now-not privileged. 

Mr. SPRINGER. TbeSpeakerheld the other day that a resolution 

to send telegrams summoning absent members was in order, and also 

that a.1·esolntiou revoking leaves of absence was in order. 
1888. .. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8129 . 

Mr. CHEADLE. There was no quorum pnsent at that time. We 

were operating under a call of the House, and the purpose was to se- cure a quorum. 

Mr. NELSON. I ask the gentleman from Illinois [1\Ir. SPRINGER] 

to yield for a minute or two, in order to allow the passaO'e of a bill. 

(Laughter.] 

Mr. SPRINGER. I desire to have this question disposed of. 

Mr. NELSON. This is a bill for the relief of a poor farmer in .Minnesota, whose house was burned and who in that way lost four fiftydollar United States bonds. I ask unanimous consent--

!.Ir. SPRINGER. I would like to know whether, in the opinion of 

the Chair, this resolution is privileged. · Th~ SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is inclined to think it is not 

privileged. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Then I move a call of the Honse. 

The motion was rejected; the~e being-ayes 32, noes 63. 

Mr. BAKER, of New York. I move the House do now adjourn. 

Mr. McCREARY. I ask unanimous consent that the bill (H. R. 

11309) set apart for consideration on Saturday be fixed instead for 

Monday, immediately after the reading of the Journal. There is some · doubt of the bill being printed in time. 

Mr. DUNN. That is suspension day. ' · The SPEAKER pro ·tempore. The gefl.tleman has the ~ight, under 

the order of the House, to call it up at any time. . . Mr. SPR~GER. But the gentleman bas given notice that he will 

call it up at a particular time. 

Mr. McCREARY. I give notice I will call the bill up on Monday 

next. 

Mr. SPRINGER. If the bill bad been recommitted, it could have 

been reported back a.t any time. 

Mr. McCREARY. In order that there shall be no mistake aboutit, 

I ask, by unanimous consent, to call the bill up on Monday next. .Mr. DUNN. I object to that, as it is suspension day. 

Mr. McCREARY. Does. the Chair rule that unanimous consent is 

necessary? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The present occupant of the chair 

thinks the gentleman has the right to call it up on Monday next. Of 

course the question of consideration can then be raised. . Mr. BLAND. If the bill bad been recommitted and the motion to 

reconsider entered, it could have been called up at any time; but it 

was postponed until Saturday, and it must be called up on that day 

unless it is postponed until Monday. 

Mr. McCREARY. I ask that the bill be considered on Monday instead of Saturday, and from day to day until disposed of. 

Mr. DUNN. I objeet to Monday. 

Mr. W.ARNER. We are not in danger from the Canadians in putting it off for one day longer. 

Mr. O'NEILL, of Missouri. I object to Monday, as that is suspension day, and I hope to get in some labor bills. 

Mr. BINGHAM. I have had placed in my hand for presentation 

to the House, by the secretary of the Pennsylvania Auxiliary of the 

American Peace Society, a memorial praying for such legislation as will lead to the establishment of a system of arbitration, especially 

between this country and Great Britain, for the settlement of all disputes without a resort to war. I ask that the memorial, with the names, may be printed in the 

RECORD and referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. 

There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. 

The memorial is as follows: 

To the Senate and House of Representatives of the United Stales: 

The undersigned citizens of Pennsylvania have been appointed-fiye of them 

by the goYernor of the Stal;e and five by the Pennsylvania Branch of the American Peace Society-for the purpose of endeavoring to further the adoption by 

the United States Governmentofthepropositionemanatingfrom over one-third 

of the members of the British Hous~ of Commons for the permanent abandon- ment of war as a means of settling differences between the two countries. ·we need not recount the arguments which have already been addres::~ed t-o you from different quarters in favor of this measure, nor the evidences derived 

from scores of successful experiments and covering half a century, that war can be prevented by arbitration whenever a nation is just in its intentions. In more than half of these cases the United States has been one of the parties and bas set a noble example to the rest of the world, which is more and more appreciated and followed as the years pass by. It is eminently fitting that this 

indust-rial, commercial, and professedly Christian country should be the pioneer in this movement so becoming the nineteenth century and so consonant with 

the teachings of the Prince of Peace; and, in our opinion, it is more appropri- ate that she should take the initiative in the present forward step in favor of a permanent treaty of arbitration than that any other nation should. It has been urged by way of objection that there is no necessity for this be- tween the United States and the United Kingdom. -But two disastrous wars occuned between those nations since the middle of the last century, and there 

}lave been at least two narrow escapes from war between them with.in the last 

quarter of a century. It is also significant that these were both averted by ar- btiration. 

The fact, however, that there is less likelihood of war between them than be- tween other nations affords the very reason why the present attempt can be 

made with reasonable hope of success. It would be most ungracious and would present the appearance of unfriendliness on the part of this country if a proposition, so commendable on general 

grounds, advocated by so considerable a portion of the British Parliament; a number of whem crossed the ocean as a deputation for the express purpose of ~resenting it: should be treated with the .discourte~y, either of silence or rejec-

~~~· ~Xdacr;,~~r~~ween whom and theu own eXISt the strongest ties of kinXIX-509 

We can not concei\"e that any sane man would prefer war, with all its train 

of losses, woes, and death, and its unspeakable demo:alizations, to a pacific so- lution of any difficulty that may arise, which would allow the happiness of a great people to remain uninterrupted, the course of commerce to flow on in its 

accustomed channels, and wealth and population to increase, unchecked by wanton waste and destruction. Fo'r t-hese reasons, fortified by the experience of the past and enforced by our hopes of the future prosperity of this country, we cordially support the propo- sition of the British deputation and entreat Congress to pass a joint resolution 

instructing our Government to negotiate with the Government of Great Britain a treaty providing for the settling by arbitration of all differences whatever be- tween the two countries which fail to reach a satisfactory solution through the 

ordinary channels of diplomacy, to the end that all disastrous eff'usion of blood 

by wars between these kindred nations shall hereafter forever be avoided. 

Joshua L. Baily, Robt. E. Pattison, Jno. Wanamaker, Chas. H. Janes, David Scull, committee appointed by th~ governor of 

Pennsylvania. Philip C. Garrett, George Dana Boardman, Rich- _ard Wood, T. P. Stevenson, W. F. Sadler (president), committee 

appointed by the Pennsylvania Auxiliary of the American Peace Society. I am in sympathy with the movement above referred to: James A. Beaver. \Ve cordially unite in the foregoing petition: Jas. Pollock, J. F. Hartranft, Henry III. Hoyt, ex-govern- ors of Pennsylvania; Edwin H. Fitler, mayor of Philadelphia; 

Daniel M. Fox, W. S. Stokley, Samuel G. King, ex-mayors of Philadelphia; John Cadwalader, collector of the port; GeorgeS. 

Graham. district attorney; Louis Wagne~ director of public 

works; Robel't P. Dechert, city controller; Henry Clay, receiver of taxes; F1·ank F. Zell, city treasurer; C. H. Krumbhaar, high 

sheriff; Geo. Philler, president First National Bank; L. D. "Brown, president Seventh National Bank; Lindley Smyth, pres- ident Pennsylvania. Trust Company; T. L. Erringer, president 

Philadelphia Trust; Sam. R. Shipley, presidentProvidentL. and T. Company; S. A. Caldwell, president Fidelity T. and S. D. Company; Thomas Cochran, president GulJ.rantee T. Company; Wm. Brockie, president Investment Company of Pennsylvania; 

G. III. Troutman. president Central National Bank; J. Simpson_ Africa, president Union T. Company; Jay Cooke; Eugene De- lano, of Brown Brothers & Co.; B. K. Jamison, banker; E. C. Knight; Francis B. Reeves, of Reeves, Parvin & Co.; William W. Justice, ot Justice, Bateman & Co.; B. B. Comegys, 4205 \\' al- nut street, president Philadelphia Bank; Geo. H. Stuart, p resi- dent Merchants' National Bank; Arthur M. Burton, attorne;-· 11t 

law; Elliston J. Morris; Thomas L. Gillespie, of Gillespie. Zeller & Co.; Geo. S. Harris, ofGeo. S. Harris & Sons; Wm. Hcnt·y 

Larned, of Larned, Haas& Handy; Ed wnrd H. Coates, of Ed wnrd H. Coates & Co.; James Whitall, of,Vbitall Tatum&Co.; \\'illiam Waterall, of William Waterall & Co. ; J. C. Strawbridge, of 

Strawbridge & Clothier; Geo. D. McCreary, vice-president- Mar- ket Street National Bank; Joel J. Baily, of Joel J. Baily & Co. PHILADELPHIA, June 30, 1888. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. HOOKER. I ask unanimous consent to extend my remarks 'on 

the Oklahoma bill. 

The SPEAKER pro umpore. The Chair will ask for general lea>c 

to members to print remarks on the Oklahoma bill. 

There was no objection, and it was so ordered. 

Mr. NELSON. I ask to consider a bill tG which there will be no objection. 

Mr. KILGORE. 

Mr. SPRINGER. 

bill to-morrow. 

I move the House do now adjourn. 

I give notice that I will not call up the Oklahoma. 

The motion to adjourn w-as agreed to; and accordingly (at 4 o'clock 

and 54 minutes p. m.) the House adjourned. 

PRIV .ATE BILLS INTRODUCED .AND REFERRED. 

Under the rule.private bills of the fo1lowing titles were introduced 

and referred as indicated below: 

By Mr. BUTLER: A bill(H. R.11310) forthereliefCaptainPlesant 

Williams-to the Committee on Claims. 

By Mr. MOFFITT: A bill (H. R. 11311) granting a pension to 

James Metcalf-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By Mr. C. A. RUSSELL: A bill (H. R. 11312) granting an increase 

of pension to Gifford M. Bridge-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By l\fr. TOWNSHEND: A bill (H. R. 11313) for the relief of James 

K. Rainey-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

Also, a bill (H. R. 11314) for the relief of Elison Colman-to the 

Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

A bill (H. R. 11315} for the relief of Susan Slatton-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By Mr. TURNER: A bill (H. R. 11316) grantiug-a pension to Char· 

lotte Ayres-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

PETITIONS, ETC. 

The following petitions and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk, 

under the rule, and referred as follows: 

By Mr. C. R. BRECKINR.IDGE: Petition of citizens of Woodruff 

County, Arkansas, for amendments to the interstate·commerce lawto the Committee on Commerce. 

By Mr. C01\ITTON: Petition of Bernhard Buscher, and of estate of 

Henry Stello, for reference of their claims to the Court of Claims-to 

'the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. R. H. M. DAVIDSON: Resolution of provisional municipality of Pensacola, Fla., in reference to the yellow fever in Floridato the Committee on Appropriations. 

Bv Mr. McKINLEY: Petition of F. B. Hinson and others, for a land 

. 
8130 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. AUGUST 31, 

district in .Northern New Mexico-to the Committee on the Public amendment was referred•to the Committee on Appropriations; and or- Lands. dered to be printed. · 

By Mr. O'FERRALL: Petition of Lewis F. Moreland, heir of Sam- Mr. MANDERSON, from the Committee on Military Affairs, to whom 

uel ~foreland, ·of Clarke County, Virginia, for rE.>ference of his claim to was referred the billtS. 1892) for the relief of soldiers who have been 

the Court of Claims-to the Committee on War Claims. honorably mustered out of the service of the United States GovernBy Mr. OUTHWAITE: Petition of E. F. Redfern and others, in favor menton surgeons' certificates, reported it with amendments, and subof granting pension to Norah Lohr-to the Committee on Invalid Pen- mitted a report thereon. 

sions. • . EXTENSION OF APPROPRIATIONS. 

By 1\Ir. PHELAN: Petitio~ of Pete~ L. Feeger, of Tipton 9onnty, · Mr. ALLISON. I am directed by the Committee on Appropriations, 

Tennessee,. for reference of .h1s war chum to the Court of Claims-to to whom was referred the joint resolution (H. Res. 219) to continue the 

the Committee on War Claims. . . . provisions of a joint resolution entitled a" Joint resolution to provide . ~y l\1r. SNYDE~: ~~mons~ance of William A. Quarne: and othe~, temporarily for the expenditures of the Government," to report it withCitizens of West Vugmm, agamst the passage of Senate bill No. 3234- out amendment and I ask unanimous consent that it may be considto the Committee on the Judiciary. ered now. ' 

By Mr. WHEELER: Pet~tion~fWilliam Gullatt, of.Jackson County, The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The joint resolution will be read at 

Al:abama, for refer~nce of his cla1m to the Court of Claims-to the Com- length. 

m1ttee on War ClaliDS. Mr. HOAR. For information. 

The following petition, indorsing the per diem rated service-pension 

bill, based on thtl principle of paying all soldiers, sailors, and marines 

of the late war a monthly pension of 1 cent a day for each day they 

were in the sen·ice, was refeued to the Committee on Invalid Pensions: ' 

By Mr. C. S. BAKER: Of H. G. Thayer and 44 others, citizens of 

Monroe County, New York. 

SENATE. 

FRIDAY, .A~tg1tst 31, 1888. 

Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. J. G. BUTLER, D. D. 

The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

PETITIONS AND MEYORI.A.LS. 

~1r. MITCHELL. I present a petition of the Tacoma Bar Association, of the city of Tacoma, Wash., praying for the creation of two additional judicial districts in that Territory, and providing judges therefor; 

also a similar petition signed by members of the bar generally of Pierce 

County, Washington Territory. I move the reference of the petitions 

to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. REAGAN presented the petition ofW. E. Bonner and 25 other 

citizens of Freestone County, Texas, praying that increased compen- sation be allowed fourth-class postmasters; which was referred to the 

Commi1 tee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads. 

REPORTS OF 00:\fMITTEES. 

Mr. TURPIE, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom were referred tbe following bills, reported them seYerally without amendment, and submitted reports thereon: 

A bill (H. R. 10122) granting a pension to Margaret Quinton; 

A bill (H. R. 7912) for the relief of Frances P. Vernon; 

A bill (H. R. 2716) granting a pension to J. W. Leight; 

A bill (H. R. 10738) to increase the pension of George C. Quick; 

A bill (H. R. 10241) increasing the pension of Richard Porter; 

A bill (H. R. 10907) granting a pension to Henry Mitchell Youngblood; and 

A bill (H. R. 6309) for the relief of Mary A. Covey. 

Mr. DAVIS, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was referred 

the bill (H. R. 9557) for the relief of 1\Irs. Margaret Longshaw, dependent mother of William Lon!!5haw, late assistant surgeon United States 

Navy, submitted an adverse report thereon, which was agreed to; and 

the bill was postponed indefinitely. He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the bill (H. 

R. 5193)granting anincreaseofpension toBenjaminFranklin, reported 

it without amendment, and submitted a report thereon. 

Mr. SAWYER, from the Committee on Pe~ions, to whom was re- ferred the bill (H. R. 9358) to increase the pension of Rosalie O'Sullivan, reported it without amendment, and submitted a report thereon. 

:Mr. BATE, from the Committee on 1\Iilitary Affairs, to whom were 

referred the following bills, reported them each with an amendment, 

and submitted reports thereon: A bill (S. 2766) for the relief of Maj. James Belger; and 

A bill (S. 2055) for the relief of Mrs. Catherine E. Whitall. 

Mr. BATE, from the Committee on Claims, to whom was referred 

the bill (S. 979) for the relief of Benjamin D. Lakin, submitted an ad-

. verse report thereon, which was agreed to; and the bill was postponed 

indefinitely. 

Mr. HARRIS, from the Committee on Epidemic Diseases, to whom was referred the bill (S. 3467) to prevent the introduction of contagions 

diseases from one Sta~e to another, and for the punishment of certain 

offenses, reported it with an amendment. 

.1\fr. FRYE, from the Committee on Commerce, to whom was referred an amendment intended to be proposed by Mr. DANIEL to the general 

deficiency appropriation bill, reported favorably thereon; and the 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. For information, subject to objection. 

The Chief Clerk read the joint resolution, as follows: 

Resolved, etc., That the provisions of o. joint resolution entitled 11o" Joint reso· lution to continue the provisions of a joint resolution approved June 30, 1888, 

entitled a 'Joint resolution to w.o..vid~ temporarily for the expenditures of the 

Government,' " approved July 31,1888, be and the same are hereby extended and 

continued in full force and effect to and including the 15th day of September, 1888. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the present con- sideration of the joint resolution? 

There being no objection, the Senate, us in Committee of the Whole, 

proceeded to consider the joint resolution. 

The joint resolution was reported to the Senate without amendment, 

ordered to a third reading, read the third time, and passed. 

BILL INTRODUCED. 

Mr. FARWELL introduced a bill (S. 3505) to amend an actentitled 

"An act to amend the statutes in relation to immediate transportation 

of dutiable goods, and for other purposes;" which was read twice by 

its title, and, with the accompanying paper~, referred to the Committee 

on Finance. AMENDMENT 'IO DEFICIENCY BILL. • 

Mr. CAMERON submitted an amendment intended to be proposed 

by him to the general deficiency appropriation bill; which was referred 

to the Committee on Appropriations, and ordered to be printed. 

LANDS IN COLU~IBI.A. COUNTY, FLORIDA. 

l\fr. CALL. I ask unanimous consent that the bill (S. 239) confirming titles to certain lands in Columbia County, State of Florida, which was reported ad>ersely by the Committee on Public Lands on the 27th 

instant and indefinitely postponed, may be placed on the Calendar. 

The PRESIDENT p1·o tempcn-e. The order by which the bill was 

postponed indefinitely will be reconsidered, if there be no objection, 

and the bill placed on the Calendar, with the adverse report of the com.mitt~e. The Chair hears no objection, and it is so ordered. 

TRANSIT OF GOODS IN BOND. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there be no further morning business, the Chair lays before the Senate a resolution coming over from 

yesterday, which will be read. 

The Chief Clerk read the resolution submitted by Mr. CuLLO:ll August 30, 1888, as follows: 

Whereas the President of the United State in his messa~e of August 23,1888, 

concerning our relations with Canada. advises Congress tnat Article XXlX of 

the treaty of Washingt-on, which provided for the tr11ousit of goods, wares, and 

merchandise in bond over the territory of the Unit-ed States to or from Canada 

is no longer in force ; and ' 

Whereas in the same message the President also advises Congress that sec- tion 3 of the act of March 1, 1873, passed to carry into effect the provisions of 

said Article XXIX is no longer in force; ~nd 

Whereas section 3005 of the Revised Statutes only authorizes the transit 

through the territ9ry of the United States of merchandise destined for Canada 

and arriving from abroad at New Yorkl Boston, and Portland in Maine (or at such other ports as may be specially designated by the Secretary of the Treas- ury) : Therefore, Reso~ved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he is hereby, directed to inform the Senate whether the transit in bond over or across the territory of 

the United States, without the payment of duty,of goods, wares, and merchandise coming from Canada has been permitted since July 1,1885, when Article 

XXIX of the treaty of Washington, and section 3 of the act of March 1,1873, are said to have ceased to be in force; and, if so, to what extent and by what au- thority of law. . 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to the 

resolution. 

1\Ir. GEORGE. Mr. President, I think the resolution is unnecessary. 

There are statutory provisions which have been in force since1862 and 

1864 under which exportations from Canada to the United States have 

been exported to foreign countries. In other words, at the time of the 

ratification of the treaty of 1871 all the operations of commerce which 

are permitted by Article XXIXofthattreatywerepermitted and in force 

and in vogue and constantly practiced under the then existing statntes 

of the United States. 

On June 7, 1864, an act was passed which is now incorporated in the 

Revised Statutes as section 3102, by which when goods arriving at a 

port in the United States were destined to a port not on the sea or