• 

1260 CONGRESSIONAL. RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

in charge of ihe pending bill to allow it to be laid aside informally at 

this time, in order that the contract-labor bill, Honse . bill 2550, of 

which I spoke some time ago, may be· considered at this time. The 

bill is a short one. · I do not think it will excite discussion. I think 

it can be very readily disposed of ~his evening. I ask that the pending 

order be informally laid aside that it may be now considered. The PRESIDING OFFICER. What is the Order of Business? 

Mr. BLAIR. . Eight hundred and sixty-three. 

Mr. McPHERSON. I do not see the chairman of the Finance Committee in his seat. I would ask the Senator from New Hampshire not 

to displace the pending bill. 

Mr. BLAIR. My request was that it be laid aside informally that 

the bill to which I referred might be considered. 

Mr. McPHERSON. This bill being the continuing business. 

Mr. PLUMB. I do not believe the bill which the Senator from New 

Hamp.Shire has charge of will be able to get through as readily as he 

thinks, although I am not aware of any opposition to it on my part. 

I am in favor of it with some amendments; but it is. very late now, 

and we shall get into some wrangle about it if it is taken up. He 

might as well let it go over until to-morrow, I think, and therefore I move that the Senate proceed to the consideration of executive business. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Kansas moves that 

the Senate proceed to the consideration of executive busiri.es.S. 

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the consideration of executive business. After forty minut-es spent in executive 

session the doors were reopened, and (at 5 o'clock and 25 mii:mtes p. 

m.) the Senate adjourned. .· 

HOUSE OF R,EPRESENTATIVES. 

WEDNESDAY, February 4, 1885. 

The House met at 12 o'clock m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. JoHN 

S. LINDSAY, D. D. 

The ;Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

Mr. B~LFORD, representing the State of Colorado, appea.red and took 

his seat. · · REPORT OF COAST A.J.."n) GEODETIO SURVEY. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will lay before the House, 

under the statute1 for re:(erence to. the Committee on Prlnting, a con- current resolution of the Senate7 which the ·clerk will read. 

The Clerk read as-follows: 

Is THE SENATE OF THE U!<"ITED 81'ATEs, Ja~~JLary 3:), 1885. 

.Ruolved by the Senate (the Hottse of Representatives conc"rring), That there be 

printed 3,000 extra copies of the.report of the Superintendent of the Coast and 

Geodetic Survey, showin~ the progress in said survey during the year ending June 30, 1884, for distribution by said Superintendent. • 

CORRECTION OF .ERROR IN ENGROSSED BILL. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will a&k consent of the 

House ro submit also at this time a House bill, which has been reCalled 

from the Senate by the aetion of the House for the purpose of correcting a clerical error, the title of which will be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

.A bill (H. R. 691) for the relief of William W. Thomas. 

• lN T:HiJ: SENATE OF THE UXITED STATES, January 30,1885. 

Ordered, That the Secretary be directed to return to the House of Representa- ti.v~, in compliance with its request, the bill (H. R . 691) for the relief of William 

W.Thomas. · 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will report the corrections 

to be made in this bill. · The Clerk read as follow~: 

It is proposed to strike out in line 13 the words" June 30 ' ' and insert " March 

S ;"in line 14strike out "64 " and insert" 65 ;"in lines20and21 strikeout" June 30" and insert "March 3 ;"in line 22strike out "65" and insert "64;" in line Zl 

tstrike out" SO" andjnsert "60;" so that it will read ns follows: · "Be il enacted; &c.; That the Secretary of the Treasury be authorized and directed to pay to William ,V. Th~mas, of Portland, in the State of Maine, the sum of 8309 (being the amount of coupons of United States bonds lost by him, and now unpaid, namely, coupons d.ile December 15, 1867, of five-hundred-dollar 7.30 notes, numbered 132909t 132911,142262, and 142268, act of 1\Iarch 3,1~, dated June 15, 1865; also coupons aue January 15, 1868, of one-thousand-dollar 7.30 notes, 

numbered 24199, 24204, 39406, and 6.fi36, act of March 3, 1864, dated July 15, 1864; 

and coupons due January 1, 1868, of bonds numbered 1437, 86826, and 86827, for 11,000 each, act of July 17, 1861), upon said Thomas givingabondofindemnityin 

double the amount to be paid, with sureties satisfactory to the Secretary of the 

Treasury." · 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Jf there be no objection these correc- tions will be made in the bill, and the same will be returned to the Senate as corrected. 

There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the rule of the House adopted on yesterday, which the Clerk will now read, the order of bu8iness for today is changed. · The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, Thn.t each morning during the remainder of this session, immediately 

o.fter the approval of the Journal, there shall be et apart one hour for motions 

to take up and consider such bills or resolutions' on any of the calendars of t.he 

House, or on the Speaker's table, or bills favorably reported from the calendars 

undisposed of, as the member making the motion may designate. And the bills or resolutions so designated shall be immediately considered, unless objected to by at least ten members. But no bill or resolution taken up for consideration 

under this order shall be debated for more than ten minutes, which time shall 

be equally divided between the supporters and the opponents ofthe measure. If 

the yeas and n ays shall be ordered on any such bill or resolution, or any pro- posed amendment thereto, and the call of the roll shall be commenced before 

the expiration of the said one hour, the same shall be completed before the reg- ular order of business is entered upon : Pr(}vided, That while thjs order remains 

in force the Speaker shaJl not entertain any requests for unanimous consent to consider &ny bill or resolution at any other time than herein provided; but )le may entertain such requests to refer bills or resolutions to committees, or to dispose of Senate amendments to bills which have passed the House. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The morning hour begins a.t seventeen 

minutes past 12 o'clock. -

PUBLIC UILDL.~G, COUNCIL BLUFFS, IOWA. 

Mr. PUSEY. Mr. Speaker, under the operation of the rule adopted on yesterday, I ask consideration of the bill (H. R. 441) for the com- pletion of a public building at Council Bluffs, Iowa. 

The bill was read at length. . Mr. PUSEY. I a.sk the reading of the letter of the Secretary of the 

Treasury in this connection showing the necessity for the construction 

of this building. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. · The first question is, Shall the bill be 

considered? 

Mr. HOLUAN. What constitutes an objection to the consideration 

of a bill under this rule? 

The SPEAK.ER pro tempore. The Chair will .state that under this 

rule a bill called up in its proper order shall be immediately considered unless there shall be objection ·made by ten or more members to 

its present consideration . . Mr. HOLMAN. Does not the objection come in after the bill h..'lS 

been considered? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state that the rule is 

imperative and clear in its language that the bill shall be considered 

unless the objection of ten members shall be interposed. The bill is 

read in the hearing of the House in order that members may determine 

whether or not they will object to its consideration under the rule. 

Mr. HOLMAN. But is it not proper, prior to asking objections tO 

the consideration of the bill, that the report should be laid before the 

House in order to inform the House as to the nature of the measure proposed to be considered? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thinks that the report could 

only be read within . tlie time allowed for .debate under the rule. It 

forms no part of the bill·itself, and is not necessarily read, and can not 

be read, except by unanimous consent, prior to asking objection of the 

House to the consideration of the measure. If the report shall be first 

read, it would be in the nature of debate, and it would then be too late 

to object to the consideration. · . 

Mr. HOLMAN. I hope I will be indulged for a moment further. 

Under the system of rules formerly prevailing in the House when the 

House was in Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar a single objection was sufficient to postpone the CQnsideration of a meas- ure. It was held by the Speaker, as I now remember, that the reading 

of the report might be demanded before objection· was called for. 

1\1!. DUNHAM. I rise to a question of order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it . Mr. DUNHAM. I ask if this hour is to be taken up in the consideration of the rule? 

Mr. RANDALL. Oh, yes. This is ~question as to its effect. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state that five minutes 

is allowed, under the. tule, for debate for and against the measure which is proposed to be considered. The Chair knows of no rule under 

which the gentleman from Indiana is proceeding except by unanimous 

consent, which will be charg~ to the time allowed for debate upon 

the measure proposed. 

Mr. HOLMA.J..~. But certainly this time occupied on a question of 

order, to ascertain the meaning and application of the rule, would not 

be charged to the hour. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair did not understand the 

gentleman as rising to a question of order. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I am insisting that, according to the practice heretofore prevai.1.plg in regard to objections of a•similar character, thereport should be read before the question of objection shall be submitted. 

That was the practice heretofore in ·the case already mentioned, where a single objection postponed the consideration of a measure, and it was held that tlie reading of the report preceded the call for objection. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair does not think the point of 

order is well taken. The Chair knows no rule of the House requiring 

the reports accompanying a measure to be read, nor of any practice of 

the House which allows it io be taken otherwise than as a part of the 

debate upon the proposition. 

Mr. WELLER. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. WELLER. I desire to kno'v whether under the present rule 

this bill, the consideratio.n of it being objected·to by the requisite ten 

members, on the next morning hour can be again called up? 
'• 

1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1261 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. That is not a parliamentary inquiry,. 

and the Chair does not feel ealled upon to respond to the gentleman's 

question. The question is whether there is objection'to the consideration·of the bill. 

Mr. STORM. How is that to be arrived at? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has stated in·as distinct language as it can command that objection must be interposed by at least 

ten members before the -proposition to consider the measure is defeated. . Mr. STORM. How is the objection to be signified? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair Will ask members objecting 

to rise, and it will then be ascertained if the bill is objected to by the 

requisite number. As many as object to the present consideration _of 

the bill will rise and remain standing until counted. 

More than ten members rose. . The SPEAKER pro tempore. Evidently more than a sUfficient num- ber have risen to object, and the bill is withdrawn. 

Mr. WELLER. I now rise to make a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. WELLER. I wish to inquire if the Speaker has ma.de a deci~on 

which will goveru the House in signifying objection. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state such has been the 

decision. made. 

PAY OF GRADUATES OF NAVAL .ACADD!Y. 

Mi. THOMAS. I call up for consideration the bill (H. R. 7752) to 

equalize the pay of graduates of the Naval Academy. . The bill was read. · . 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I wish to inquire of ~be Chair if ten minutes are allowed for debate before objections are called for. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Five minutes are allowed on either 

side, and the Chair will state to the gentleman from Ohio1 as the Chair 

has already stated, that a~r debate. it is too late to object. Is there 

objection to the ptesent consideration of this bill? · More than ten mem'Qers objected. 

. PUBLIC BUILDI:XG AT FORT WAYNE . . 

Mr. LOWRY. I call·up for consideration the bill H. R. 6412, a bill 

to am eng chapter 464 of the act:s of the first session of the Forty-se'\"enth 

Congress,· entitled "An act to provide for a public building at the city 

of FQrt Wayne, in the State of Indiana." 

The bill was read. 

The consideration of the bill was objected to by the requisite num- ber of members. DA1I ACROSS ::\IISSISSIPPI RIVER. 

Mr. NELSON. I call up for present consideration the 'Qill (H. R. 

G764} tO authorize the Mississippi Water Power and Boom C.ompany, of 

Brain(}rd, :Minn., to construct a dam across the Mississippi River. 

The bill was read. 

Mr. NELSON. I ask leave to make a brief explanation. 

The_ SPEAKER pro tempo're. · It is the duty of the Chair to call for 

objections. . :Mr. WELLER. There is an amendment which the gentleman from 

Minnesota bas that doubtless will obviate any objections that gentle- men may have to the bill. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The bill has been reported by the Clerk as it is proposed to be amended. · 

The consideration of the bill was objected to by the requisite num- ber of members. 

CO::UPENSATION OF UNITED STATES .A.TTOR...~EYS, ETC. 

Mr. HERBERT. I call up for consideration the bill which I send 

to the desk. 

The Clerk read the title of the bill, as follows: 

A bill to amend the law in relation to the compensation of United States district attorneys and United States marshals, and for otpe~· purposes. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state . this bill is not 

covered· by the rule. It is a new bill not on any of the calendars or reported by the Committee of the Whole House to the House; nor is 

it on the Speaker's ta.ble. It does no.t belong to the class of bills em- braced in the rule. · · 

Mr. HERBERT. · This is a bill reported last session by the Committee on Expenditures in the Department of Justice. It is a bill which 

passed this House. 

The SPEAKER·pro tempore. Will the gentleman from Alabama 

[Mr. HERBERT] furnish the number of the bill that it may be 'found on the Calendar if it occupies a ·position there? 

Mr. HERBERT. ·I nsk'theChairtopermit me to complete my statement. This is the bill that passed this House last session on the stmdry civil appropriation. bill. It went· to the Senate on that bill, and was stricken off because it was new legislation. It baa been reported, 

and as I understand it comes withiil the tenus of the rule. It is a bill 

which has been reported by the.committee. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair-will state to the gentleman 

from Alabama that the bill which he has sent to the Clerk's desk bears no number or information of its status op any calendar or on the Sp~-

er's table. . 

Mr. HERBERT. But I have furnished the information to the Chair as to the status of the bill. ' 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair must be governed by the 

Calendar of' the House, Wtd is informed by the Cl,erk that this bill is not on any of the calendars -or on the Speaker's table. 

Mr. HERBERT. There is nothing on the calendars that contradicts 

my statement. I state to the Chair this is the identical bill that was reported by the Committee on EA-penditures in the Department of Justice last session; it is word for word exactly as it passed this House. ~ir. SPRINGER. I can explain this matter. [Cries of" Regular 

order!''] 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The regular order is being observed. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I desire to state-- · Mr. HOL}.fAN. I suggest there should be no debate allowed, or else 

the objection should be permitted to come in at the end of the ten minutes' debate. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has already stated that when· 

debate has been had on a bill it is too late to object. There is no debate now proceed in g. · Mr. SPRINGER. I wish to make this explanation. Thi!lbill bas 

been reported as the gentleman from Alabama states, and I desire to 

show that the gentleman from Alabam~J, and the Chair are both correct. 

This bill was introduced anew this session, was referred to the com- mittee of which I am chairman, and I am authorized to report it bac~ 

and to move to suspend the rules and pass it. I have not had an opportunity of doing so as yet. The Chair is correct in statfng the bill 

is not on any calendat, and the gentleman from Alabama is also correct 

in his statement. 

Mr. WELLER. I understand tba.t all this is proceeding by unani- mous consent. 

The SPEAKER pro temJJOre. The Chair does not think this bill which 

is sent to the Clerk's desk comes within the rule. The bill as sent to 

the desk does not enable the Chair or the Clerk of the House to find 

that it is either on the Speaker's table or on any calendar or reported 

to the House by the Committee ofthe Whole. 

Mr. HERBERT. The Speaker will permit me to remark tliatit is 

only necessary to look at the records of this House to find that what I 

have stated is absolutely correct. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is not questio:rri.ng the accu- racy of the gentleman's statement at all. The Chair has called upon 

the Clerk for information as to whether tills bill, either upon ~ts face or in fa.ct as the Clerk is now enabled to examine his Journal, comes within the limit of the rule, and the Chair is informed that there is no • such information to be had, either froni ·a hasty examination of the 

J o.urnal or from the bill which the gentleman has sent to the Clerk's desk. 

Mr. HERBERT. Then, Mr. Speaker, I withdraw the bill for the 

present in order to give. time for a full and proper examination, giving 

notice that I will call it up hereafter at the first opportunity. 

ORDER OF llUSINESS. 

Mr. PERKL~S. Mr. Speaker, I desire .to make a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr: PERKINS. I desire to ask the Chair if by unanimous consent 

the rule under w hie}} we are now acting can be amended ? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It can not. 

. l\1r. PERKINS. Not by unanimous consent? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thinks not. 

. Mr. PERKINS. I desire to make another inquiry. Can a motion 

be entertained by unanimous consent to permit the objections to be interposed (if objections m·e to be inte:rposed) after the ten minutes' debate? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would sa.y not. This rule 

expressly p1·ohibits the Chair from eil~erta.ining a request for unani- mous consent. 

RELIEF OF WEST VIRGINIA TROOPS. 

Mr. GOFF. I call up for present consideration a bill which has 

been reported unanimollSly by the Select Committee on the Payment 

of Pensions, Bounty, and Back Pay, the bill (H. R. 3462) for the relief 

of West Virginia troops acting under authority of the governor of the 

State. 

The bill was read with amendments. 

Objection to the consideration of the bill was made by the requisite 

number of members. · 

DR.A WBACK ON DUTIES. 

Mr. HEWITT, of New York. I call up for present consideration the 

bill (H. R. 7651) to amend section 3019 of the Revised Statutes, relat4J,g to drawback on duties on_ imported material when manufactured 

and exported. 

The bill was read. 

Objection t~ the consideration of the bill was made by more than the 

requisite number of membet'S. 

JOHN P. PETERSO:X. 

.Mr. HENDERSON, of illinois. I call up for present consideration 

tlie bill (H. R. 6270) for the relief of John P. Peterson. 

The.bill was read. 

Objection to the consideration of the bill was made by the requisite 

nUII,lber of members. . 

r 
1262 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

D. 0. ATKINSON. 

1\Ir. CASSIDY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to take up 

and pass the bill which I send to the Clerk's desk. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair can not at this time entertain a request for unanimous consent. 

Mr. CASSIDY. Under the rule, I mean. 

The SPEAKER pro templFre. The Chair can not entertain a request 

for unanimous consent. The gentleman from Nevada [Mr. CASSIDY] 

asks the present consideration of the bill which he calls up, and which 

is the bill (S. 1455) for the relief of D. 0. Atkinson. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I ask to have the report in that case read. 

Mr. CASSIDY. This is fully authenticated by the Post-Office Department, and it only provides for the payment of $170, due on lost 

vouchers. 

- Objection to the consideration of the bill "!as made by the· requisite 

number of members. · 

1\Ir. CASSIDY. I will pay it myself if the Government can not afford 

it. [lAughter.] 

REPORT OF HEALTH OFFI E~ OF DISTRICT OF COLUl\IBIA. • 

1\Ir. ROGERS, of New York. lli. Speaker, I call up, for the pur- - pose of correcting a. clerical error, .the joint resolution (H. Res. 288) au- thorizing fJ:le printing of 2, 500 extra copies of the annual report of the 

health officer of the District of Columbia. · The joint resolution was read with Sen..'\te amendment. 

Objection to its consideration was made by the requisite number of 

members. 

ADJUSTMENT OF LAND GRANTS. 

Mr. ANDERSON. I call up the bill (H. R. 6416) to·provide for the 

adjustment of land grants made by Congress to aid in the construction 

of ra!Jroads in the State of Kansas. . The Clerk proceeded to read the bill. Before the reading was con- cluded,. · 1\Ir. ANDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I ask leave ,to withdraw that bill 

for the .present. 

:Mr. WELLER. I object. , 

The SPEAKER 121'~ tempore. The Chair will state that the gentle- man from Kansas has a right to withdraw his bill. 

lli. WELLER. Then I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. Why call 

for objections? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. . The Chair has not called for obje~tions. 

JOHN L. -LAKE, JB. 

!Ir. BARKSDALE. lli: Speaker, I call up the bill (H. R. 2331) for 

the relief of John L. I,ake, jr. 

The bill was read. 

Mr. BARKSDALE. I ask that the report of the Committee on Claims on this bill be read. · 

Objection to the consideration of the bill was made by the requisite 

number of members. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

:M:r. LAl\IB. I move that the Honse adjourn~- · 

The SPEAKER jyro tempore. The gentleman from Indiana moves that the Hol,ISe adjourn. . lli. LAMB. Till Judge HOLMAN is ready for the House to transact 

business. 

The question being taken on the motion of Mr. LAMB to adjourn, 

there were-ayes 105, noes 105. 

Mr. RANDALL. I call for tellers. 

Mr. CONNOLLY. I call for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were not ordered, only 37 voting therefor. 

1\lr. O'NEILL, of ?!1issouri. Now let us have tellers on agreeing to 

the motion. · _ The question being taken on ordering tellers, they were not orderedonly 28 voting in favor thereof. 

The SPEAKER pro te-mpore. On the motion to adjourn the ayes are 105, the noes 105; and under the rules the motion is not agreed to. 

Mr. NEECE. I desire to take from the Speaker's table, by unani-. mons consent, a bill for reference to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair does· not think it in .or<}er 

during the hour covered by this special rule to ask unanimous consent even for the reference of a bill. 

DISTRIBUTION OF LAWS AND RECORD. 

?!fr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I call up ·for consideration the bill 

(S. 2449) to provide for the distribution of the statutes of the United 

States and the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD to designated incorporated 

bodies,· institutions, and associations within the several States. and Territories. 

The bill was read. 

The consideration of the bill was objected to by the requisite num- ber of members. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

11Ir. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I move that the House adjourn. 

The question being taken on the motion, there were-ayes 41, noes 63. 

:Mr. HENDERSON, of Iowa. I call for tellers. 

Tellers were not ordered. 

So the motion to adjourn was not agreed to. 

lli. WARNER, of Ohio. I move that the Honse take a recess for 

fifteen minutes. ' 

. Mr. WELLER. I move to amend the motion by striking out i, fifteen'' and inSertinJ! ''ten.'' · . · lir·. WARNER, of Ohio. I accept the amendment and modify my 

motion uceordingly. · 

Mr. SPRINGER. I rise to a point of order. I desire to rai e the 

question whether this hour, under the new rule, is not to be devoted to 

requests for the consideration of bills, and whether the.time consumed 

in these dilatory motions is to be taken out·of the hour. allowed for 

this purpose. . . 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is not the.understanding of the Chair 

that the House, by the adoption of this new rule, robbed itself of its 

inherent power to adjourn or to take a recess. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Nor do I so understand, but under the rule is not t~ hour to be devoted to the purpose designated ? Otherwise this 

hour may be consumed entirely by motions to adjourn or other dilatory 

motions. It seems to me this rule has set apart one ho~ for a particular 

purpose, and if time be occupied for other purposes the time so con- sumed is not to be considered as a part of the hour. I make this point 

now, as the pracijce nnder this new rule to-day may control its construction hereafter. I submit that this rule is to be construed as having some meaning, and in such a way as to give the House some relief in 

the transaction of its business. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair does not agree with the gentleman in constrtting this new rule. The Chair thinks that the time 

the gentlemanfromlllinois [.Mr. SPRINGER] isnowoocupyingin discussing a point of Ol'der of his own raising must, under the rule, come out 

of the hour which the Honse has set apart. [Laughter.] 

lli. SPRINGER. I beg leave to di.fter with the Chair. If it is an improper construction to allow this hour to be consumed by motions to 

adjourn, &c., then certainly a point of order which may stop such a proceeding is a proper consumption of.time. 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. The Chair overrules the point of order. 

The question being taken on the motion of. Mr. w ABNER, of Ohio, as modified, that the House take .a receSs for ten minutes; there were- ~~~n . 1\Ir. W :ASHBURN and 1\fr. WARNER, of Ohio, called for tellers. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. ·No quorum having voted, tellers are .ordered under the rule, and the Chair appoints the gentlell).an from 

Ohio, Mr. W ABNER, and the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. WASHBURN. . 

1\fr. WASHBURN. I withdraw the point that no quorum has voted. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I also made the point, and I insist upon it. 

The tellers took their'places, and the Honse proceeded tO vote. 

During the count by tellers the following proceedings took place: 

Mr. STEELE. I call for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. This proceeding is the regular order. · rhe Honse is dividing. 

?!Ir. STEELE. I make the point of order that the hour has expired. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The expiration of the hour does not 

affect the taking of the vote on. the motion for a recess. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I withdraw the point of order that no quorum voted. 

1\Ir. REED, of Maine. I renew the point. · 

_The SPEAKER pro tempore. Upon this motion no quorum has yet 

voted.. The Chair asks gentlemen to vote on one side or the .other. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I withdraw my motion for a· recess. 1\Ir. HAMMOND. I make the point that the hour under the new rule has expired. . 

1\Ir. SPRINGER. In other words, the hour' for obstructing bnsinesa 

has expired. . · 

The SP.EAKER pro tempore. The motion for a recess is withdrawn; 

and the hour appropriated for the consideration of business under the new rule has expired. [Cries. of "Regulat· order!"] The regular order is the call of committees for reports. · 

}'IORNING HOUR. 

:rrir. WILLIS. I move the morning hour be dispensed with. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 94, noes 55. 

So·(two-thirds nQt having voted in the aflirmative) the morning hour was not dispensed with. . -

.?!Ir. WILLIS. . With a view to proceeding to the public business I • withdraw the motion. [Cries of" Regular order!"] 

The SPEAKER. The regular order is the morning hour for the call 

of committ~es for reports. . . · · 

Al\IENJ?ME~"T OF RULE . 

1\Ir. HOLMAN. I move the reference of this propqsed change of the 

rules to the Committee on .Rule5. · The Clerk read as·follows: · 

Amend ~he rule adopted on the 3d of February, 1885, as follows : · Strike out the words " but no bill or resolution taken up for consideration under 

this order shall bedebatedformorethan ten minutes, which timeshallbeequally 
.. 

1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. • 1263 

divided between the supporters and op:p<?nents of the measures," and insert'' not exceeding ten minutes' discussion, which time shall beequallydivided between 

the supporters and opponents of the measure, and amendments shall be in order 

during such ten .minutes." 

Mr. HAMMOND. Does that lie over? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is referred to the Committee on Rules.· 

.Mr. HAMMOND. I make the point of order that a motion to amend 

the rules is not a matter ofprl.vilege except on Monday. . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state that under the 

rule it is, and tmder the uniform practice. of the House, so far as the 

Chair is informed, it has always been held to be a privileged motion .. Mr_ HAMMOND. I do not remember what the change has been, 

but i,t was held in the Forty-first Congress, by Mr. Blaine, then Speaker, 

it was not in order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. ...If the -gentleman desires it, the Chair 

w:ill have repeated decisions made on this subject read. 

Mr. HAMMOND. If the Chair is quite certain I withdraw the point 

oforder. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is quite certain. . Mr. HoLMAN's amendment was referred to the Committee on Rules. 

Mr. OATES. I move the following amendment to the rules for refer- ence to the Committee on Rules. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

.Ruolved, That during the remainder of the present session of Congress the House of Representatives shall begin its sessions each day at ll o'clock a.m. 

Mr. OATES's motion was agreed to, and the amendment was referred 

to the Committee on Rules. · 

PHL.~NEY & JACKSON. 

. Mr. REED, of Maine, from the Committee on Ways and 'Means, re- ported back favoTably the bill (H. R. 639) for the relief of P];linney & 

.Jackson; which was-referred to the Committee of the Whole HoUBe on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to~ 

printed. · · 

DUDLEY HALL & CO. 

Mr. R~D, of Maine, from the Committee on Ways and Means, also 

reported back favorably the bill (H. R. 690) for the relief of Dudley 

Hall & Co.; which wllS referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to 

be printed. . 

PEOPLE'S NATIOX.AL BAXK, LAWRENCEBURG, IND. 

Mr. HEWITr, of New York, from the Committee on Ways and 

Means, reported back favorably the bill (H. R. 7706) to authorize the 

Secretary of the Treasury to issue a duplicate certificate of deposit to 

the People's National Bank of Lawrencebm·g, Ind . ; which was referred 

to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, 

with the accompanying report, ordered to be.printed. 

ELlZA J. RAY. 

Mr. HISCOCK, from the Committee on Ways and Meaus, reported bac~ favorably the bill (H. R. 6201) for the relief of ElizaJ. Ray; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on: the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

LANDING GOODS, ETC. 

Ur. GLASCOCK, from the Committee on Ways and Means, reported 

back with an amendment the bill (H. R. 2834) to amend certain promions of chapter 4, title 34, Revised Statutes, relating to the movement 

ofvessels and the la~dingof goods and personal effects; which was re- ferred to tha House Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, 

otdered to be printed. . . 

BRIDGES ACROSS TEXSAS RIYER, ETC. 

Mr. SEYMOUR, from the. Committee on Commerce, reported, as a substitute for the bill H. R. 7450, a bill (H. R. 8174) authorizing the 

construction of bridges across Tensas River, Boeuf River, and Bayou 

Bartholomew, in the States of LoUisiana and Arkansas; which was read a first and second time, referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered 

to be printed; the bill H. R. 7450 being laid on the table. 

ASTORIA AND WINNEl\IUCCA RAILROAD CO::U:PAl~i'Y. 

M.r. SEYMOUR, from the Committee on Commerce, also reported. as a substitute for the bill H. R. 7652, a bill (H. R. 8175) to grant the 

right to the Astoria and Winnemucca Railroad Company to construct 

bridges over navigable water courses; which was read a first and second 

time, referred to the House Calendar, and, with the accompanying re- port, ordered to be printed; the bill H. R. 7652 being laid on the table. 

CONFIRMATIO~ OF TITLEs. 

1\Ir. COBB, from ~mm.ittee on the Public Lands,·reported back 

favorably the bill ( . q 26) to confirm titles to lands in certain cases; .which was referred to the House Palendar, and, with the accomp!}nying report, ordered to be printed. 

W A'l'ER ROUTE FllOM LAKE 1\llCHIGAN TO DETROIT RIVER. 

1\Ir. ATKINSON, from the Committee on Railways and Canals, re- ported back favorably the bill (H . .R. 4991) to provide for the survey of 

a water route to connect the waters of Lake ~Iichigan with the Detroit 

River; which was Teferred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to 

be printed. 

NICHOLAS WITHAM. 

Mr. LOVERING, from the Committeeonlnvalid PensioJlS', reported 

back favorably the bill (H. R. 7612) granting a pension to Nicholas 

Witham; which was referred to the House Calendar, and the accom· panying report ordered to be printed. 

DANIEL B. RANDALL. 

Mr. UORRILL, from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, reported .back favorably the bill (H. R. 7903) granting a pension to Daniel B. 

Randall; which was referred to the Committee oftheWhole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be 

printed. · ADVERSE REPORTS. 

· Mr. MORRILL, from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, reported 

back adversely the following bills; which were severally lai4 on the 

table, and the accompanying reports ordered to be printed: 

A bill~H. R. 565) for the reliefofBe"i\jamin E. Rowdybush; 

A bill H. R. 7424) for the reliefofWilliam Seamans; 

A bill H . .R. 6281) granting a pension t-o Michaet Lane; . 

A bill~J;I. R. 7027) granting a pension to James Smithpeter; 

A bill H. R. 7930) granting a pension to Silas S. White; 

A bill H. R. 2073) to restore to the pension-roll the name of Charles 

R. White; and 

A bill (H. R. 6785) to :restore to the pension-roll the name of Charles 

R. White . MARIE LOUISE CRAVEN. 

Mr. BAGLEY, from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, r(_lported 

back with an adverse recommendation the bill (S. 129...,8)_ granting an increase of pension to Mrs. Marie ~uise Craven; which, on his motion, was ordered to be referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calend;tr, and, with the adverse report, printed. 

~DA ALLEN. , 

Mr. BAG LEY, from the Cpmmittee on Invalid Pensions, also reported 

back the bill (H. R. 7938) granting _apension to AmandaAlleil; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Privat-e Cal· 

endar, and, with the ~ccompanying report, oroered to be printed. 

CH.A,RLES W. GREEN. 

Mr. RAGLEY, from the Committee on Invalid "Pensions, also reported 

back the bill (H. R. 6177) for the relief of CharlesW. Green; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, 

and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

HE~TRY W. HUGGINS. 

Mr. BAGLEY,.from the Committee on Invalid Pensions, also reported 

back the bill (H. R. 7735) for the relief of Henry Vt. Huggins; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be· printed. 

HENRY BIEDERBICK. 

Mr. BAGLEY, from the Committee ouinvalid Pensions, also reported 

back with amendments the bill (H. R. 7~33) granting a pension to 

HemyBiederbick; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole 

Honse on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, or- dered to be printed. 

ADYERSE REPOR~S. 

Mr. BAG LEY, from the Committee on Invalid Pensi9ns, also reported 

back with ad ''erse recommendation bills of the following titles; which were severally ordered to be laid on the table, and the accompanying 

reports printed, namely: . 

A bill !H. R. 7402) for the relief of Henry Cary Weir; . A bill H. R. 988) to increase the pension of Annie S. ~Iellach; 

A bill H. R. 7263) granting a pension to Newell F. Osterhout; 

A bill H. R. 4193) granting a pension to John H. O'Brien; 

A bill (H. R. 7099) granting a pension to Elizabeth Smith; 

A. bill H. R. P548l granting a pension to Derrick F. Hamlink; 

A bill H, R. 6181 granting a pension to Rachel Ann .Johnson; 

A bill H. R. 8089 granting a pension to Reuben Jenkins; 

A bill H. R. 3726 granting a pension t-o Philander Carran; 

A bill H. R. 2417) granting an increase of pension to Mrs. Marie 

Louise Craven; 

A bill (H. R. 2461) for the relief of Elizf\beth Aurand; and 

A bill (H. R. 7333) for the relief of Harriet P. Blake. 

HENRIETTA !II. SANDS. 

Mr. CULLEN, from the Committ-ee on Invalid Pensions, reported 

back with an adverse recommendation the bill (S. 1286) for the relief 

of Henrietta M. Sands; which was ordered to be laid upon the table, 

and the accompany~g report printed. 

JA!IIES H. REID. 

Mr. STOCl{SLAGER, from the Committee on . Inv~d Pensions, re. poTted back with amendments the bill (H. R. 2068) granting a pension 
1264 • CONQRESSIONAL REOORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

to James H. Reid: which was referred· to the Committee of the Whole 

House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, 

ordered to be printed. 

HARRY H. G. KISLINGBURY AND OTHERS. 

Mr. ROBINSON, of :New York, from the Committee on Pensions, re- ported back with amendments the bill (H. R. }618) granting a. pension 

to Harry H. G. Kislingsbury, Walter F. Kislingbury, W.beeler Schofield 

Kislingbury, and Douglas E. L. Kislingbury, 1·espectively, children of 

the late Frederick F. Kislingbury, a lieutenant in the Eleventh Regiment United States Infantry; which was referred to the Committee of 

the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying 

report, ordered to be printed. · 

SARAH DENNY RIPLEY. 

Mr. STEELE, from the Committee on Pensions, 1·eported back the 

bill (S. 150) granting a pension to Sarah Denny ·Ripley; which was re- ferred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, 

and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. · 

REFUND OF :\IO:NEY UNDER DIRECT TAX OF .AUGUST 5, 1861. 

Mr. PRICE, _from the Committee on Claims, reported back with 

amendment the bill. (H. R. 6'047) to credit and pay the several States 

and Territories all moneys <;ollected under the direct tax levied by the 

act of Congress approved August t">, 1861; which was referred to the 

Committee of the Whole House·on the state of the Union, and, with 

the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I ask, MJ:. Speaker, the privilege of submitting a minority report to·accompany the bill just reported from the 

Committee on Claims. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. Does not that require unanimous consent? 

The SPEAKER pro tempor.e. The Chair will state that it does. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. How, under the new rule, can the Chair en- tertain the request for unanimous consent? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will admit that under the 

).'ll].e adopted on yesterday the Chair does not think it could ente:y;tain 

the request for unanimous consent for the consideration .of a measure. But the Chair does not.think that under that rule it is precluded from 

entertaining a request for unanimous consent of this character. The 

Clerk will read that provision of the rule: . Mr .. REED, of 1r!aine. I wanted the Chair to pass upon it, as there 

is so much difficulty in doing anything by unanimous consent. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Pr<»ided, That while this order remains in force the Speaker shall not enter- tain any requests for unanimous consent to consider any bill or resolution at any other time than herein provided; but he may entertain such requests to refer bills or resolutions to committees or to dispose of Senate amendments to bills which have passed the House. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. It will be seen that under the rule the 

Chair is not p1;ecluded from entertaining the request for unanimous con- sent in this instance. The Chair hears no objection to the request of 

the gentleman from Ohio, and he will have permissibn to submit the 

minority report her¢ter. · 

:MRS. JULIA. HARTLEY. 

Mr. WOLFORD, from the Committee on Pensions, reported back the 

bill (H. R. 7952) granting a pension toUrs. Julia. Hartley; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, 

and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. · 

ELIZ.A.BETH FLEMING AND OTHERS. . 

1\Ir. ELLWOOD, from the Committee on Claims, reported, as a substitute for the bill H. R. 1140, a bill (H. R. 8176) for the relief of 

Elizabeth Fleming, Frances E. Robinson, and Mary and Margaret Johnson; which was readafirstandsecond time, referred to the Committee 

of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed, the ~ill H. R. 1140 being laid on·the 

table. 

EXPENSES IY DEFENSE OF THE UNITED STATES. 

Mr .. GEDDES, from the Committee on War Claims reported back 

with amendments the bill {H .. R. 7919) to settle and ;djust the claims 

of any State for expenses incurred by itindefenseofthe United States; 

which was referred to the Committee of the Whole ]Jouse on the state 

of the Union, and, with the amendments and accompanying report, or- aered to be printed. 

PA YllENTS lfADE BY :MISSOURI. 

Mr. GEDDES, from the cOmmittee on War Claims, also reported 

back with a favorable recommendation the bill (H. R. 2366) to authorize and direct the. Secretary of the Treasury to cause to be examined 

certain vouchers of the State of Missouri for payments made since April 

.2, 1882, to officers and enlisted men of her militia forces for services ~endered to the United States in the suppression of the rebellion, and 

to report to Congress; which was referred to the Committee of the ~ole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the accompanying re- port, ordered to be printed. · 

co~ting officers of the United States Treasury Department; which was read a first and second time, recommitted to the committee, and ordered 

to be printed. . . · WA'.(ER SUPPLY OF WASHINGTON. 

Mr. WILSON, of West Virginia, from the Committee on the District 

of Columbia, reported back with a favorable recommendation the bill 

(H. R. 8140) to amend an act entitled "An act to increase. the water 

supply of the city of Washington, and for other purposes;" which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, 

and, with the accompanyillg report, ordered to be printed. 

PRINTING OF NAVAL AND :MILITARY REPORTS. 

' 1\lr, ROGERS, of New York, from the Committe~ on Prlnting, reported back with a favorable recommendation the joint resolution (H; 

Res. 292) autholi.zing the printing of certain naval and military reports·; 

which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state 

of the Union, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

PRINTING OF REPORT ON SPOLIATION CLAIMS. 

Mr. BRATTO~, from the Committee on Printing, reported back with a favorable recommendation a concmrent resolution of the Senate to 

print 3,000 copies of the communi~tion of the Secretary of State con- taining a list of claims agains~ France by reason of spoliations com- mitted prior to the 21st day of July, 1801, of which 1,000 copies shall 

be for the use of the Senate and 2,000 for the use ofthe House of Representatives; which was referred totheComm1tteeofthe Whole House on the state of the Union, and, with the accom.panying report, ordered 

to be printed. . . 

SHIPPL~G 001\UliSSipNERS. 

1\Ir. LORE, from the Select Committee on American Ship-building 

and Ship-owning Interests, reported back with amendments the bill 

(H. R. 8072) relating to shipping commissioners; which was referred 

to the House Calendar, and, with the amendments and accompanying 

report, ordered to be printed. · 

DOCUMENTING VESSELS, ETC. 

1\Ir: DINGLEY, from the Select Committee on American Shi.P·bnilding and Ship-oy;ning Interests, reported ba.ck with amendments the bill 

(H. R. 8071) to amend. sections 4153, 4177, and .4371 of the Revised 

Sta,tutes as regards documenting vessels and designating their numbers 

and tonnage; which was referred to. the HouseCa,lendar, and, with the 

amendments and accompanying repo~, ordered .to be printed. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore: The call of committees for reports has 

been completed. The Chair will ask consent that such gentlemen as were not in their seats when theircommitteeswereca.lled be permitted 

to report now. There was no objection. 

• J. P. BUSH AND M. GRIGSBY. 

1\Ir. HERBERT, from the Committee on Ways and Means, reported 

back with a favorable recommendation the bill {H. R. 7766) for therelief of John P. Bush and 1\Iartin Grigsby; which was referred to the 

Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the 

accompanying report, ordered to be printed. 

ORVILLE HORWITZ. 

Mr. HISCOCK, from the Committee on Ways 'and Means (for Mr. 

BLACKBURN), reported back with amendments the bill (H. R. 734) for 

the relief of Orville Horwitz, assignee in trust of C. D. De Ford & Co. ; 

which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar, and, with the amendments and accompanying report, 

ordered to be printed. _ . 

. POSTAGE ON SECOND-CLASS MATTER. 

1rlr. MONEY, from the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads, 

reported a bill (H. R. 8178) to reduce postage on mailable matter of the 

second class; which was read a first ~d second time, referred to the 

House Calendar, and, with the accompanying report, ordered to be 

printed. 

HONORABLY DISCHARGED UNION SOLDIERS, ETC. 

1\Ir. MUTCHLER, from the Select Committee on Reform in the Civil 

Service, reported back with an adverse recommendation the bill (H. R. 

7548) to prohibit the removal of any honorably discharged Unl.on soldier, 

sailor, or marine, or the widow or dependent relative of any deceased 

Union soldier, sailor, or marine, from any office in. the civ.il service of 

the United States except for specified cause; which was laid upon the 

table, and the accompany-4lg report ordered to be printed. 

Mr. 1\IILLARD. I desire to give notice of the presentation of aminority reporf. · 

The SPEAKER pro tempore . . The gent~mm New York [Mr. 

MILLARD] asks permission to :file a minori .~:rt. The Chair hears no obj ectj.on. The report will be pril:lted with the report of the majority. 

DESCRIPTIVE CATALOGUE OF GOVERNME..t.."iT PUBLICATIONS. 

ALLOWANCE OF CLAIMS. Mr. ROGERS, of New York. I rise to make a privileged report. I ,Mr. G;EDD~, from the Committee on War Claims, also reported a am directed by the Committee on Printing to report back with a favorabill. {H. R .. 817'7) for the allowance of certain claims reported by the ac-- ble recommendation the joint resolution (S. R. 104) providing for. t.he 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECOR.D-· HOUSE. 1265 

printing and distribution of the Descriptive Catalogue of Government 

Publications. · · Mr. WILLIS. I mll for tb.e regular order. 

The SPEAKER pr·o tempore. This is a privileged report under tbe 

rule. 

The joint resolution was l'ead, as follows: 

Resolved, <!:c., That there' be printed :mdhalf-bound iu leather, with the excep- tion of the 1·eserve sets, which shall be full-bound in leather, 6,600 copies of the 

Descriptive Catalogue of Government Publications, of which 1,500 copies shall 

be for the_use of the Senate; 3,000 copies for the use of the House of Representatives; 4 copies for the library of the Senate; 12 copies for the library of the 

House; 60 copies, 50 of which shall ·be for foreign exchanges, for tb:e Librru·y of 

Congress; 2 copies for the library of the Executive Mansion; 40 copies for the 

Depart.ment of State; n. copy to be sent to each legation of the United States 

abroad; 25 copies for the Treasury Department., including its bureans; 20 copies 

for the War Department, including 1 for the library of the Military Academy at 'Vest Point; 20 copies for the Navy Department, including 1 for the library of 

the Naval Academy at Annapolis and 1 copy for the No.valObservatoryatWashington; 25 copies for the Department of the Interior, including its bureaus, the 

Railroad Commission, the Geological Survey, and the Census Office; 818 copies to be delivered to the Secretary oft he Interior for distribution to such librarie~,. 

not depositories of public documents, as shall be named for this purpose bv each 

Senator, Representative, and Delegate in Congress; 10 copies to the Pest:omce Department and ita burettus; JO copies for the Department of Justice, including a copy for the library of the Supreme Court and a copy for the library of the 

Cotirt of Claims; 2 copies for 1!be Departruen t of Agl'icnltme; 2 copies for the . Smith.S<mian Institut.ion; 2 copies for the Government P•·inting Office; 1,000 

copies to be bound and distributed with the reserved documents, and 50 copies 

for the use of the Joint Committee on Public Pt·iuLing, to be distributed among those who have aided in the compilation of the work. 4 

SEC.·2. That the Public Printer sholl print 500 aduitional copie. of the abovenamed work, to be half-bolmd in leather, and sold at 10 per cent. ad'\"ance on cost price, to any person applying for the same, a notice stating the price to be inserted .at le.'\St once a week in the daily edition of the CONGRE IOXAL RECORD 

until the edition shall have been disposed of. 1 SEc. 3. That all provisions of law unde1· which any additional copies of the 

nbove-named work might be printed are, so far as they apply to the above-named 

'vork, repealed. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. I wish to ask t hegen tlema.n from New York 

bow large a volume will this be ? 

Mr. ROGERS, of N cw York. I do not know how large a >olume it 

will be. It is a work which has been cn-dered by pmvious Cong resses, 

and has been compiled under the direction of previous Congre ses. Mr. REED, of Uaine. Does it come down to the present t imc? 

Mr. ROGERS, of New York. Yes, sir; there is a report here, if the 

gentleman desires to have it reacl. 

The joint resolution was · ordered to a third reading; and it was ac- ~ordingly read the tbira time, and passed. 

Mr. ROGERS,. of New York~ moved tor consider the vote by whic·b 

Lhe joint xesolution was passed; and also moved that the mot.ion to 

reconsidf:'.r be laid on the table. 

The latter.motion was agreed to. 

REPORT Ol!, SJUITHSONIA~ L~STITuTJO~. 

Mr. ROGERS, of New York, from the Committee on Printing, also 

reported back with a favorable recommendation the .concurrent 1·e olution providing for the printing of the annual report of the Smithsonian 

Institution. 

The'Cierk Tead as follo')'s: 

IN TilE S~ATE OF THE u~I"IED STATES, Jwma1·y 2G, 188-'5. 

Re&olved by the Senate (the House'of Representatives concurl'ing), '£hat the annual 

report of the Smithsonian lnstitulion and Natlonal :Museum 1oi· the year 1834 be printed, and that there be p1'inted 16,060extracopies; of which 3,000co)Jies shall be for the usc of the Scno.tc, 6,060 for the House of Rep•:esentati\"e\l, and 7,000 for 

the Smithsoniap_lnstitution. · 

The concm·rent 1·csolution was agreed to. 

Mr. ROGERS, of New York, moved to reconsider the motion by which 

the concurrent 1·esolution was agreed to; aud also moTed to lay that 

motion on the table. 

The latter motion wM agreed to. 

EYENIYG SESSIOY ... 

Mr. WILLIS. 1\Ir. Speaker, I rise to a privileged motion. 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. 'The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. WILLIS. I move that at 5 o'clock to-~ay the House take a 1·ecess until 8 o'clock this evening; my object being to go on with the 

1·i ver and harbor bill. 

The SPEAKER pro te-mpoTc. The gentleman fron,1: Kentuck"Y [Mr. . WILLIS] mo>es that the. Honse take a recess from 5o clock until 8 

o'clock this evening. 

1\Ir. ADAMS, of Illinois. Will not the gentleman f1·om Kentucky 

[Mr. WILLIS] modify his motion to include the method of passing over certain item.S. 

Mr. WILLIS. I will state to the gentleman and to the House that I 

have no objection to an understanding that none o( the matters that are in dispute shall come up at the cvcning·session, and, if this motion 

prevails, I am mlling to agree that· no item in the bill 1arger thau 

$50,000 hall be considered at the night session. 

l\Ir. REED, of 1\Iaine. Mr. Speaker1 that is going to prevent the discussion of the bill, by preventing the attendance of members. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The motion of the gentleman f1·om Kentucky is that at 5 o'clock to-day the House take a.. recess until8 o'clock 

this evening. 

:Mr. KEIFER. Jt.Ir. Speaker, I want to know whether it is undexstood that no othe1· business is to be taken up at this night se.."Sion. 

XVI--~<> 

r 

1\Ir. WILLIS. That is my intention in making the motion. 

Mr. KEIFER. That no other business shall come np? 

Mr. WILLIS. Yes. 

Mr. KEIFER. Well, 1\[r. Speaker, let it be so understood. 

The SPEAKER p?·o tempore. As the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. 

KEIFER] knows, that can be done only by unrurimous consent. 

:Mr. KEIFER. I understand that; but I suppose there will be no objection? . . The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is ther~ objection to an understanding 

that no other business than the river and harbor bill !ihall be ta"}{en up 

at the session this evening? The Chair hears no objection, ::md it is so undei"StoQ'd. · 

. Mr. SPRINGER. I desiJ:e tO say that these arrangements by which we guarantee that nobody will be present in the House at an evening 

session merely amount to a provision that nothing shall be done. Now; 

if we t.'tke a recess, and have an .evening session, let it be done in such a way as to have the members of the House present, and let us do some business. What is the usc of some of us coming here when others will 

not, and when the House will probably find itself without a quorum? 

I am willing to come here to-night, but I want to come for the pUl'pose 

of transa,cting business. Therefore I suggest to the gentleman from 

Kentucky [l\!1·. WILLIS] that he had better modify his motion. .1\fr. WASHBURN. Will the gentleman from Kentucky (1\Ir. WILLIS] agree to modify h.is motion? 

1\Ir. PETERS. Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the night sessions he~in to-morrow night. · . 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The. question is on the motion of the 

gentleman from Kentucky (1\I.r. WILLIS] that at 5 o'clock this after- noon the ·rrouse take a recess until o'clo~k t.his e~·enil;lg, at which 

night session, by unanimous consent, there shall be no business transacte(l or considered except the rivet and ha.rbor bill. 

Mr. REED, ofl\Iaine. I object to that. 

The SPEAKEP..pro tempore. 0Qjection is m:1de. Then the motion 

of the gentleman li·om Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS] is that a.t 5 o'Clock this 

afternoon the House take a recess _until 8 o'clock this evening. · _ Mr. BAYNE. 1\Ir. Speaker, I suggest to my friend from Kentucky 

[Mr. WILLI.'] that, instead of taking a :recess and ho1ding a night ses-· sion, we· come here to-morrow at 11 o'clock. 

D-r-1\.Ir. WILLIS. We can not do that without changing a rule of the 

nouse. : . . The SPEAKER p1·.1 tempore. The question is on the motion of the 

gentleman from K~tucky that at 5 o'clock this afternoon the House 

take a 1·ecess until 8 o'clock this evening. . 

The question was takf:'n; and there wme-.-ayes 114:, noes 2;). 

1\Ir. PETERS. I make the point that there is no quorum voting. 

The SPEAKER pi'O tempore. The point is m:ade that no .quorum has 

voted . . The Chair wiU therefore appoint teller3, and will designate 

the gentleman 1i·om Kentucky, Ur. \liLLIS, and the gen~lemaii from 

Kansas, ~h. PETERS, to act as tellers. 

Before the count was completed the demand for tellers was 'l"ith:. dra~; and the motion of Mr. WILLIS was agreed to. 

lllr. WILL IS moved to reconsider the vote by which the motion was agreed to; a.ud also moved to lay that motion on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Ur. HISCOCK. :Mr. Speaker, in this connection I ~nderstood fTom 

the statement of the gentleman from Kentuck"Y [Mr. '"WILLIS] awhile 

ago thl'.\t·certain points in tl~e river and harbor bill were to be passed over at this night session. 

1\Ir. WILLIS. Yes, sh-. No gentleman need have the slightest 

doubt on that point. Only items under $50,000 will be considered. 

1\lr:. WARNER; of Ohio. I can for the regular order. 

Mr. 'VASHBURN. 1\Ir. Speaker, do I unde1-stand the gentleman 

from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS]-- · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state that this is a matter with which the H.ouse has no earthly concern, and the gep.tleman 

from Ohio [Mi·. '"\VARYER] has demanded theregular order. 

RIVER AND HARBOR BILL. 

1\Ir. WILLIS. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House do now re olve 

itself into Committee of the w·hole Hovse on the state of the Union 

for the pmpose of resuming considemtion of the ri •er and harbor bill. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The House accordingly resolved itself into Committee of the Whole 

House on the state of the Union (Mr. HA::\DiOYD in the chair), andresumed the consideration of the bill (H. R. 8130) mak'.ng appropriations 

for the construction, repair, and preservation of certain public works on river and harbors, and for other purposes. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Improving harbor at Rockland, Me.: Coutinuing improvement, $20,000. 

Mr. KING. I move to strike out the last word. 

Mr. Chairman, in the limited time allowed for discussion, under the 

rule, I "'ould like to call the attention of this House to the character 

of attacks that have been made upon this measure. The enemies of 

this bill have put in the fo~efront objections ·to the improvemept of the 

Mississippi River. For years the demand has come up from the central 

portion of this continent, from the country 1ying west· of the great .A.p-
1266 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD~HOUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

palachian region, north of the Gulf and 8outh of the lakes, fox: the im- prove~ent of this great national highway. In the beginning of _the 

Forcy-sixth Congress the law was passed creating a commission to be 

intrusted with this improvement. The criticisms now directed against 

this work come, I discover, first from Wisconsin. The gentleman who 

spoke on Fri<L'ly last on this subject rl\fr. PRICEl began his argument 

by endeavoring to prove that a part of the plan being executed by that 

commission is not only fruitless but uselessly expensive; and he stated 

in substance -that this particular feature of the commission's work is the 

only object of th~ com.mission. I refer to his remarks tegarding levees. 

Does this bill provide for no streams except the "Mississippi River 

and other: great water ways?'' : · It was tl!at very idea upon which the President of the United States 

wrote his veto message of 1882. That river and' harbor bill appropriated$18,000,000,farlessthanrecommendedintheEngineer'sReport,on 

the recommendation of the members of Congress who were invited to 

go before that committee and were patiently heard by the committee. 

Even such a distinguished Democrat as Senator BAYARD came before 

that committee to urge appropriations for streams in the little State of 

Delaware. The President's veto message was on the idea that in that 

l\fr. Chairman, in the act creating that commission for the improve- bill were appropriations for catfish streams and for little trout streams. 

ment of this river not one word is said about levees. The title of the 

act reads thus: · I call attention·ofthis Committee of the Whole ~nd the country to 

the fact that this bill by the side of that dollar for dollar appropriates 

AJ? act to provide for.the .appointment of u. Mi sissippi River commi slon for infinitely more for little catfish streams and little trout streams than 

the 1mprd'Vement of satd rtver from the hea-d of the passes near its mouth to the bill of 1882 did. 

its headwaters. · I call the attention of this committee and the House to the further 

That body of cientific men has adopted · certain plans for this im- fac~ that but fo_rthat:veto messa.geofthePresident of the United States, 

provement. Had we then known the wisdom of the gentleman from 1-which put the Idea before the country that a river and harbor bill was Wisconsin, possibly we would have induced the President to put him a great steal, and that members .of Congress were thieves and were en- upon ~at body. .All that he says is negatived by the opinion of these deavoring to get ceTtain appropriations for certain localities in order to 

scientific men in charge of this work. . elect or re-elect corrupt American citizens to the Congress of the United 

The distinguished gentleman from Maine [Mr. REED] says without States-but for that idea inculcated by th~t veto message, Mr. Chairthe slightest ql!-alification, that t~is work is to cost 150,00o,OOO. I ma;D, the Democratic party would not no:v be in power. You met in 

have been astom bed to bear on this floor statements embra<!ing inaccu- Chicago, through your cho en representative -- racies of the >ery wildest character; but never before have I known The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman's time has expired. · one so boldly made against a measure so meritoriou as this, and purely 1\Ir. STEELE. I will take the floor and yield my time to the genwith the object of prejudicing this body against it; for, sir, there is not tleman from Kentucky. one :figure to sustain sucha statement. :Mr. WffiTE,'of Kentucky. I thank the gentleman from Indiana 

[Here the hammer fell.] for hi courtesy. 

Mr. JONES; of Wisco~, obtained the floor and said: I yield my As I was saying, the Democratic party of this nation met in Chlcago, 

time to·the gentleman from Louisiana [All'. KING].. . · through its chosen representative , and avowed in its platform last July, 

.M:r. KING. The gentleman from WestVirginia[~Ir. Grn o -] whom for the :first time, that it was in favor of the Government appropriating 

I do not now see in his seat, stated on thisfloorafew day aO'o thatl\!r. money for'' the improvement of the Missis.'ippi and other great water 

Eads had said this work would cost$100,000 000. ~Ir. Eadscorrected ways of the Republic." 

him the next day by"telegtam, to the e.ffect~t he had never said this Is·tbe Big Sunflower one of the great water ways? [Laughter.] Is 

work would cost exceeding $30,000,000. There is no wa.rrant no au- the Great Pee Dee one of the great waterways? Is the Suwane~ River 

thority whatever for the statement made bythegentlemanfrom1.Maihe· one of the great water ways?. You not only do that but you have put 

and the highest estimates I have seen for this work have not exceeded in your bill appropriations to survey streams that have not been heard 

$45,000,000. · ' of even up to this day. Where is the Pond River in the State of Ken~ 

l\1r. Chairman, it is au easy .ma.tte-r to rise here now with criticismt tucky? Where iB the Little River in the State of Kentu&y, and where 

and ®mplaints directed against the river and harbor bill. This has is the L~~le River in the State o_f Louisiana? Apply this criticism to 

been made a convenient bore for every man to d!ount who wishes to other States and you will find this bill is a bill to survey creeks and 

c~tc some ~p~ar impressio~ in his own·district against appropria- bayous and little treams which: can no_t i~ any sense b'=' considered as tions for the rmprovement of nvers and harbors. The c bills are caned gT6<'1>t water ways of the Republic. ThlS bill launches out nat only to 

''steals'' -and ''log-rolling schemes.': But I would ca.U the attention improve the Uississippi lliver and other great wat;cr wa.ysr but proposes 

of this HoUBe to the ·tact-and there i no possibility of its beinO' neo-- to discover Rtrea.ms which have no·t yet been discovered. If that is your 

atived-that the bill called the river and harbor bill comes in~ he~e theory, if that is your platform, I then ask you in what respect you 

afte1· more careful scrutiny than any other measure introduced into differ-from the old Whig party? . this House. First, a urvey must be made;· recommendations Dlnst There is in this bill, as I shall attempt to how as we go forward, an come from the Chief of Engineers a. to the amount· of money that can utter disregard ofthe recommendationofthe Chief ofEngineers. If we be properly expended upon this work. These recommendation must are not to rely upon th~ recommendation of the Chief of Engineers, if 

be indorsed in turn by the Secretary of War and by the President of your committee sitting with closed doors and not hearing what mem- the United States. bers on this floor, elected bythe peopleofthe several districts to repreNo bill, I say, that con;tes before this Hou e i more carefully drawn· sent their constituents, have. to say on this subjec_t, then who shall tell 

yet no measure.has been more malign,ed before the country. What h~ us how to prepare a bill which will give relief to the commerce of tM 

been the sp~ t prompting these misrepresentations regarding this meas- conn try, which. is .the ~bj ect sought in the passage of any just river aud 

ure? I can not here more than suggest that it~ the >ast transporting harbor appropriation bill? 

line of railway· which compete with the cheap freight ways; for we I am one of those, 1\Ir. Chairman, who believe there is bnt one true 

know that a:s rivers f,'O down freights go up, and as freights go up rivers ground upon which to prepare a bill making appropriations for the imgo down. provement of ri vcrs and harbors, and that is to prepare it in accordance 

An attack has been made here on the purpo e of this committee-in with_t~e_needs<?fcommerce, and.ifsuch a bill hastocarry 3G,OOO,OOO,_ the e.ffort'to improve the harbor of Galveston. No one can look at the and 1t IS made up upon a true prmciple, I sh:ill. support that bill. But 

vast -population.and territory now dependent upon that o11tlet to the to state in a national platform one thing and then to prepare a bill upon 

sea without sympathizing with those men in their efforts to afford rc- an entirely opposite basis, and then to ask Congress to support it when 

lief-a relief demanded for the purpose of furnishing food supplies and Congress does not know how it was prepared-does not know what it 

supplies for the manufacture of the common. est articles of daily neces- contains-has not had an opportunit_y to learn by full and fair discussity. Already we read that in the city of New York beef is toO high .sion, but only as each member has learned .forhimselfbylookingatthe 

for t·he poor man to .eat. If you cari get cheap ways Qf·transporting report o~the en~n~e~ and bringing to bear on th_e st;tbjcct the knowlmea..t from Texas I will ~tee thatthepeopleofthatgreat city will edge which we mdiv1duallyhave of our several distncts-I say, under 

not want for cheap beef. these circumstances, 1\fr. Chairman, it is impossible to expect us to 

The CHAIRM.A.N. Debate on the pending amendment is exhausted. swallow this bill without having more light on it than we now have. · Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move to amend the amendment by It was very proper that the chairman of this Committee on Riv-ers 

striking out the last word. and Harbors shouJd ·want to have night sessions when nobody would 

Mr. Chairman, I desire to call the attenion of this Committee of the be here to discuss this bill or have its enormities pointed out. 

Whole to the fact that this bill is a worse bill than the river an.d harbor And. I want to call the attention of the House to anothe-c fact, that 

bill of 1882, which was vetoed by the President, by which veto the the De~ocratic party has made rapid progress. I should like to incorDemocratic patty was greatly benefited. I desire to call attention to porate m my remarks a protest presented to a former Congress, signed 

the further fact that the Democratic party has changed front on this by the chairman of this comrr?-iltee and by the Speaker of this Congress 

important question of internal improvements. · I wis)l further to call and by many others who have been converted to this important docattention to the fact that if this bill passes, the Democratic party if . trine of the Whig party that internal improvements are for the benefit 

it can do so, stultifies itself before the·country. In the Democ~tic of the whole country. 

platform adopted at Chicago on the lOth of July last the Democratic [Here the hammer fell.] 

party asserted that- Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky, by unanimous consent, withdrew his 

The Federal Government ~hould care for and improve the 1\fls issippi River formal amendment. 

and the other great water ways of the Republic, 80 as to s~ure for the interior 1\Ir. HORR. I renew it. It is unnecessary for me, 1\Ir. Chairman, 

States easy and cheap transportation to·tide water. to state to the members of this H<?use that I am! in favor of a. judicioWJ 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1267 

river and harbor bill. I am also in favor of one thnt is built in a spirit 

of fairness toward all the great and all the small water ways of the 

country. Forastr.eam which is national that needs only $5,000 is just as much entitled. to it as one that· needs $5,000,000, and should be as carefully looked after by the COmmittee on Rivers and Harbors as the 

largP.r work. · But, Mr. Chairman, I rose more for the purpose of calling the attention of the committee to the fact that this debate had drifted a little 

into sectionalism.·, It is not a part and parcel of this bill; and I was astonished at my friend from Texas, Judge REAGAN, wha has had so much experience on this bill, that he should have taken part in that 

discussion in the manner in which be did. He undertook to claim that 

the States of Michigan and Wisconsin had received enormous sums of 

money in proportion to the other States. 

Mr. REAGAN. I alluded to Wisconsin, not to Michigan, and then 

only in response to the gentleman from Wisconsin himself. 

l'rfr. HORR. Then another gentleman mentioned Michigan, and I 

may be permitted to say that she is entitled to be mentioned in this 

bill, because she has got a large amount of necessities. But here is 

what I was coming to: My friend frOln Texas enumerated eight States 

which he compared with the State of Wisconsin, and claimed that that 

State alone)ladgotmoremoneyfrom the Treasury of the United StateS' 

trum all of these eight States put together, and my friend, Mr. BLANCHABD, said that Michigan exceeded Wisconsin in the amount drawn. from 

the Treasury for such·purposes. · · 

Now, Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman from Texas will :stop for a moment he will see that in that list five of these States are States 

which the Mississippi River passes through in large part, or along the 

coast of them, and he will find that his estimate is perhaps inaccurate 

in one respect. Will he tell me what amount of the l'rfississippi River 

appropriations he bas charged aga.inst these respective States? I ask 

this because when you come to compare the amount with Michigan, 

and estimate that she is te receive $8,000,000, yon charge up to her the 

improvements on the Sault Saint Mary's Canal, on the Saint Clair Flats, 

and on the Detroit River, which amount to more than 5, 000,000 of the 

$8,000,000 you charged to Michigan, whereas that is a. simple thoroughfare for. the commerce of Lakes Uichigan, Superior, and Huron. Lake 

Superior touches, of com'Se, upon Michigan, but the commerce of that 

great channel is the entire commerce of the West. Now I ask the 

gentleman frankly, if he charges $8,000,000 to Michigan, whether it 

would not also be fair to charge to these other States their proportion 

of the Mississippi River improvements? 

Mr. REAGAN. If the gentleman from :Michigan will confin-e himself to answering me, I would then be able to make response to his inquiry; but since he is discussing Mkhigan, to which I <lid not refer, I can not answer him. _ · 

Mr. HORR. Bnt you gave the amount appropriated jn Louisiana in 

your list, and I ask why is the amount apprppriated for the 1\ii.ssissi ppi 

River improvements not to be cba.rged to Louisiana on the basi ·of consistency. when you charge Michigan with allofth~improvements that 

I have named? . Mr. REAGAN. Because the Secret.ary of War did it, and I take it 

from his figures submitted on the 14th day of January, 1884, in his re- port made to thiei House in answer to a llouse resolution. 

1lfi. HORR. But, Ur. Chairman, the Mississippi River is Ju t as much a local enterprise as the Sault Saint Mary's Canal, and it should be 

charged to those States just as much as the other improvements I have 

mentioned in Michigan are charged to her. ·. Now, sir, I do no~ do this for the purpose of claiming that you charge 

too little or too much, and only state it to illustrate the fact that this . is a national bill and not a State or sect-ional measure. I do not care which part of the country a harbor is in; if it needs improvement you 

should not inquire what State it is in, but simply whether it is a. na- tion~ work and needs improvement. I do not sympathize with the sensi~veness of some ofmyfriends over here whoobjectt.otellingwhat 

part of the country a specific improvement is in. If a member on this 

floor happens to state that a certain great expenditure is in a ·certain 

part of the country, they seem at once inclined to raise the cry of sec- tionalism. Why is it anything against the harbor because it happens 

to be in Texas instead of Michigan ? It may be tough on the harbor, 

it is true, but it does not justifY anybody in raising that as an objection. (Laughter.] 

(Here the hammer fell.] 

Ur. HISCOCK obtained the floor and yielded his time to Mr. HoRR. 

Mr. HORR.. Now, Mr. Chairman, the great bulk of.this bill has 

been prepared, in my judgment, with great care. There are things in it 

that I do not like. I object at p1~ent. to the launching out on an ex- penditure of $750,000 for Galveston lfay. Why? It is not because· I 

would not vo~ for it if I was satisfied that the harbor was capable of 

improvement, and that wa8 the place to construct the harbor. But I 

am not satisfied that it is the plaee and I will siate'my objections to it. 

I was on the committee which appropriated over $200,00Qfor the improvement of that harbor. ~o man was clearer in his judgments or more complete in his demonstrations with reference to the posSibility 

of that improvement than my friend from Texas. He was satisfied 

with the plan on which that money was being expended. He thought 

it was the one that would improve the great harbor at Galveston. He 

had back of him a gentleman, ?lir. J.iansfield, I believe. A~ I correct 

in that? 

. Mr. REAGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HORR. 111r. Mansfield appeared before our committee, and I 

have heard some strictures. upon him throughout this discll.SSion; but 

for myself I may say that no one appeared before that commi~,' 

among all who appeared before it, who in my judgment seemed tohave a cooler brain or clearer head than this.Armyengineer. He stat-ed that 

he was sure of succeeding; and we gave, at.the speciilJ. instance ofiny: 

friend from Texas, a large amount of money mr Galveston Harbor! 

w]J.ich they tell us now, for all purposes of improvement, might just as well have b~en dumped into the sea. Now, I want to stop dumping 

money at. Galveston until we know what we are about. They need an ad~uate harbor on that coast. I am in favor of the United States Government proceeding with that work when it has been determined that 

Galveston. is the best place for-it. When that is done I am for GalvesJ 

ton. But we.do not know yet about it. . · . I am at a loss because good engineers differ about it.. ·rs there· not 

some otl;lcr point on that coast where tho e quicksands are not so terrible as they are at that harbor? We have already sunk in that.harbor a good deal more than a million dollars. How much more water . 

have you got now than there was before you commenced that process? 

.Mr. OCHILTREE. Three inches. 

Mr. HORR. About three inches, says my friend.from Texas. That 

is an expensive process; a million dollars for each inch. 

Mr. OCHILTREE. Three hundred thousand dollars for each inch; .Mr. HORR. I believe that that harbor is such a one that such an expensive work should never be commenced upon it until we have had 

careful investigation and know what we are about . . Who has made 

this careful investigation to offset the thet>ry of the Government engineers, which they have b~n working on for the last ten years? What 

body of men have made this examination? I. am told there are harboTJ on the coast of Texas where these sand shoals can be av-oided. I · 

am told there are outlets where railroads center. If that is true, let 

u.S seek one of those places and improve it. If Galveston is the place, 

I am for Galveston. 

[Here the hammer fell.] . The committee informally rose; and the Speakerp1·o temp01·e resumed 

the chair. MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary 1 informed 

the House that the Senate insisted ·on its amendments to the bill (H. 

R. 8121) to enable the commissioners of the District Of Columbia to 

maintain public order during the ceremonies of the inauguration of the 

President, and for other purposes, agreed to the conference asked for 

by the House on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses thert}on, and 

had appojnted Mr. HARRIS, Jlrlr. INGALLS, and Mr. PIKE as tho con- . ferees on the part of the Senate. · The Committee of the Whole resumed its session. , 

RIVER .AND HARBOR .APPROPRIATION BILL. 

The CH .. :URMAN·. Debate on the pending amendment is exhausted. 

Mr. HORR. I withdraw it. · . 

Mr. REAGAN. I renew the amendment. I will notice the last 

point made by the gentleman from :Michigan [1\Ir. Ho~R] first. He seeks 

to prejudice the present appropriation because of my urging an appro- priation un~er a different plait, and because he said that I recommended 

that plan as the right plan. Well, sir, his statement is all right with this 

understanding in relation to it that I am not an enginee1·. I have never given opiniQns as an engineer because I am not an engineer. ·I took 

the repo~ts of the Secretary of War and the local engineers and accepted 

them as good authority. Upon their m~king the recommendation the 

gentleman speaks of. I approved and did ·what I could. It is right to 

say the gentleman from Michigan was fair generally in reference to 

appropriations ofthat kind. 

But the gentleman from Michigan takes me to task for giving a. sec- tional cast to this debate. Why, ·Mr. Chairman, I served upon that 

committee for eight years. I have bad a considerable part in the·.formation of every bill for the improvement of rivers and harbors which was gotten up during those eight years. During that timelwas never governed by sectionalism. I was as liberal and as earnest in the im~ 

provement of. the water ways connected with the great lakes as I was in reference to the improvement of the water ways in any other part of 

the- country. · I believ-ed the Sault Saint Mary's Canal to be a great and 

necessary national public work, and I supported large appropriations 

for it. I believed that the deepening of the shl)al water at Detroit was a great and necessary national work, and I approved it. I was never governed by sectionalism, and 1 have no feeltug now th~t prompts me to be governed by sectionalism. . 

It seems to me, with all deference to the gentleman, that it would 

have been more proper for him to have rebuked the gentlemen on his 

own side of the House who introduced this sectionalism and made a point out of it than to have attacked me for it. · · 

I desire to say another word on that subject, for I mean that gentle- men shall unde1'Stand when they assail the work at Galveston on the 
1268 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 

ground of sectionalism that tbey_shall have the benefit of the a:ssault 

they make. I do not mean that this fight shall be all on one si~e, as· gentlemen will leam before they get through. The gentleman who 

·:raised this cry of sectionalism, the gentleman from Wisc~nsin [Mr, 

PRICE], has had from first to last for the improvement of the Fox and 

Wiscoll$in Rivers, in his State, $2,280,750 93. There has heen that 

expenditure on a work that will never be completed, a.ml that the 

engineers have more than once said could not be completed according 

oo the original ·plan on account of the quicksand sho~s on the Wisconsin River. But by. some sort of juggling between the State ana Federal authorities these-two millions and nearly three hundred thousand 

dollars have furnished a. great deal of valuable water-power for private 

parties to use. :M:r. REED, of Uaine. 1\{ay I ask the gentleman a question? 

l\Ir. REAGAN. Yes, sir. 

l\Ir. REED, of l\Iaine. When did we origina.te that scheme? 

1\Ir. REAGAN. l\Iore than a. dozen years ago. 

l\Ir. REED, ofl\Iainc. ·There have been none like it lately? 

1\lr. REAGAN. That work has been appropriated for year after 

year for the last ten or twelve years. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. There have been no new schemes of that 

kind lartely.· The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Texas [1\Ir. 

REAGA~] has expired. 

1\Ir. McA.DOO. -1\lr. Chairman, the Committee on RiYcrs and Harbors, to say the least., hcted very injudiciously in not allowing a more full discussion on the bill. This is a very important measlue, and 

every member of the House who has any views should have an opportunity to express them. I personally am in favor of the legitimate improvement of the_water ways of the country, and more especially now when so many people arc unemployed and bu iness depression prevail- ing. . • . . As to the proVision!:t of the bill, -I thipk that such ri>ers as the MisBissippi and Tennessee and others, if possible and prncticable, should be 

improved, but there· are grea.t projects in the bill which are open to 

very severe criticism. Among these I shmi speak first of the appropriation for the improvement of the harbor at Gal\eston. I have no doubt 

that James B. Eads is-a man. of superior ahili'ty, but I am loath to ad-

·mit, after all that has been said in his favor. on the floor of this House, that the Almigp_ty should have called in l\1r. Eads when he planned this 

continent. [Laughter.] After hearing my eloquent friend fromLou- :isiana. [Mr. BLANCHARD] in his chaste and Chesterfieldian way pay 

such a beautiful tribute to 1\lr. Eads, I looked in the hook of Genesis • to ·see if 1\lr. Eads's name was not as plentifully sprinkled through that 

book us it is in this bill [laughter], and disappointed in my researches 

I respectfully suggest to the learned aml reve1·end gentlemen who are now revising the sacred volume that H might be imprO\·ed i~ that re-

~ool . · lllr. Chairman, what does this bill propose to no as far as Galveston 

is concerned? 'Vhy, sir, we are giving l\Ir. Eads the harbor and-the 

United States Treasury-giving him the harbor to do what he likes 

with it, and giving him the Treasury to pay him for doing .it. [Renewed· laughter.] 

It is a matter of speculation. It is a question on which engineers 

have differed and disputed and still dispute. :Millions already expended 

have p1·oduced little or no results, and we have only Ur. Eads's word 

for it that seven or ~ight millions more will insure a success. Anothel· thing: We have an Eno·ineer Corps in our Afmy . . It is supposed to be theYeryc·ream of the service. Men are ad:nitted into it by 

l'e.ason of their superior· capacity and fitn~ss. Now, sir, is n9t the Galveston provision in this bill tantamount to sa.ving that the members of our Engineer Corps are unfit for their positions? If the members of 

the Engineer Corps are incapable of coping with this pi·oblem, then let 

the corps be aboli hed, and let us give the whole business of internal 

improvements over to Capt~ James B.• Eads. If they are incompetent 

and lmreliable at GalYeston, can they be trusted at~ ew York or Charleston? Of wha.t value are their opinions or decisions on any improve- me_nt? Nearly all the legislation in these bills is founded upon their 

opinions and t·ecommendations, so that if 'Ye.now pTononnce them un- reliable the rest of this bill is under grave suspicion. 

1\Ir. Chairman, in the limited time allowe(l me I am obliged to deal 

~ery hurriedly with the provisions of this bill; but there is another 

item to which I objec~the appropriation for the improvement of Big 

Sandy Bay in Massachusetts, tor making a '

1 harbor of refuge'' there, a sort of a mru·ine boarding-bon e, an oceanic Yellowstone Park, where 

the wanderers of the sea can run in and enjoy themselves and admire 

the princely liberality of our Government in providing this beautiful 

harbor for them. ·Why Sandy Bay when you have Boston and Port11lld? Are mariners afraid of the culture of the one and the lack of 

1·efreshments in the other ? So· far as this bay is concerned, there is no definite plan proposed, and there is no need for the work. If you are going to build a harbor of refuge on the New England coast, why not 

build one also on the New Jersey coast south of Sandy Hook? But I 

for one can not agree, when our rivers, om· gt·eat national highways, 

need legitimate improvement and are asking for aid, that we are called 

upon to expend the national fonds to build harbors of refuge on the 

New England coast. 

Then as to the item of the improyement of the Mississippi River, it 

is very strange that after the many years that we ha.ve been expending 

money on improvements of that river there is scarcely an instance in 

which tho e improvements haYe withstood the floods that periodically 

sweep down the bed of the mighty stream. 

If we arc to improve the Mississippi, why not take a sufficient sum and make one direct test case as to the best plan of improving that 

river, instead of appropriating 100,000 one year, $200,000 another 

year, $1,000,000 another year, and so on, to be sprinkled all along the 

stream? Let us have a fair scientific test made of what can be done 

before we are calted upon to make these appropriations. At the last 

session of Congress such a proposition was voted down by friends of 

this bill. 

1\Ir. ELLIS. It has been made. 

1\Ir. l\IcADOO. I doubt it. 

l\lr. ELLIS. It bas been made, and has succeeded. 

Mr. McADOO. Let that test be made, Mr. Chair~an, and then if 

you find that the l\Iis:?issippi River can be improved on that plan, I 

for one am willing to vote sufficient money to improve the entire great 

stream. The whole country is ihterested in the improvement of this 

free, natural highway, which in its freedom fo:r commerce and travel 

rivals tl1e railroads and cbeapens every product to the consumer. But so 

far in the works made upon and along its course the awful forces of nat- ure have not been successfully curbed by scientific experiments. Let 

us do for it whatever is practicable and necessary, but avoid expenditures which arc blim:l ventmes and bring no beneficial results. 

[Here the hammer fell.] . 

1\lr. W AR:NER, of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the 

last word, and· I yield my time to the gentleman from New Jersey [Mr. 

l\IcAooo]. 

. 1\fr. 1\'Ic.AbOO. -Now, 1\fr. Chairman, under the shadow and protection of these great schemes we find a host of little fellows creeping in. 

We are making these appropriations unde•what authority? Under 

the clause o.( the Constitution which says that we shall have power to ·reguln.te commerce between the States. It would seem that a stream 

of sufficient importance . to make its improvement a national matter 

ought to be lmown to members of this House generally, but I .venture 

to a.Ssert th:lt if my disUnguished friend from Indiana, who sits on my 

left [Mr. HoL:.IAN], and who is one of the best informed men in the 

country, were before the Chil Service Commission for examination he 

could not tell _a thing about the- Yallabusha [laughter] or about the 

Scoma Loosha. I Yenture to say that he could not tell whether-the 

Scoma Loosha is a continuation of the Yallabusha, or whether the Yalla-busha is a continuation of the Scoma Loosha. [Renewed laughter.] 

Yet, 1\lr. Chainnap, under the provision of the Constitution to which I 

haYc referred, we are called upbn to make a considerable approp.riation 

fodheimprovementofthe YaJlabusha. [Laughter.~ . Then, sir, looking through this bill to find the Yallabusha, I come to the Salkehatchie; Wac~maw, \Yapoo Cut, Wateree,· Coosa, Caloosahatchee, Chocta.whatchce, Wit.hlacooche·e, Big Sunflower, Noxubee, Tallahatchie, Tchula L:~.kc, Chifuncte, and the Boeuf-which latter, I suppose, runs souptogether with the Stielaquamish, the l:[iawassee, and the universally 

known Hay Lake. Here, for m~amplc, is an approp~ia.tion for tlle improvement. of the Wateree. Now, sir, the Wateree .is not a river at all, 

it is a lumber-yard. · · 

On that suQject. I refer gentlemen to t.hc report of the War Department, which states that there is no channel there-that it is a mere 1

' net-work of logs.'' That being so, the proper way to improve and 

protect the Watcrce would be to send down a co"Qple of :fire-engines to see that the river does not- burn up. [Renewed laughter.] The _re- por~, howe\·er, adds that here we can profitably-to what or whom we must conjecture-spend a hand..QQme sum of money. 

Then here is.Romerly Uarsb. Now I venture -to say that very few 

gentlemen know op what pa.rt of the map to find :Rome:rly 1\larsh; yet 

wp arc rolled uportto make an approp1·iation for its improvement under our constitutional authority to regulate comme1·ce between the States. 

Although I have looked over the most modem atlas, I was lmable 

to find Romerly 1\Iarsb, not even on the beautiful map which the 

friends of the Hennepin Canal have kindly presented to me·. It is 

modestly mentioned in the Engineer's report, and appears to be a canal, 

to begin work on which the Florida and Georgia Steamboat Company 

kindly donated S5,000. So far as it is concerned the bill is a misnomer, fori tis neither a river nor a harbor, bnt a canal to be cut through ·a marsh. I am in doubt ~hether it is a p:rintte and local enterprise or a matter of real interstate commerce. Here iS the Gasconade, this blustering stream which mean del'S through 

the sylvan sh~dcs of the State6lf M~ouri. I find on turning to the 

report of the War Department this significant language: . 

The only work done on this . ~reamSays the report of last yearwas in the office, uecause there was not sufficient appropriation. 

Now, it is a problem such as confronted the philosopher when he &'OW 

a calf's tail sticking through a knot-hole, as to whether they brought 

this boastful and vaunting stream, the Gasconade, into the office and 

improved it there, or whether their profound minds in the precincta 

of the sanctum cogitated plans how to impi'OVe it without the office. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1269 

Yet this ·is just the class of little fellows that creep in under the 

shadowing protection of this gigantic scheme about Galveston Harbor, 

and this harbor. of refuge on theNewEngland coast, and this improvement of the :Mississippi. These modest, retiring little fellows coming 

in, each walk off with l1> bag of United States·coin to the tune of five, 

·ten, or fifteen thousand dollars, or $100,000,· or even much more. Why, sir, here is the Big Sunflower. ~spent some time examining 

Mitchell's Atlas to find out where this.:flowery and resthetic stream hid 

itself. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

l\Ir. BELFORD. Ur. Chairman, I move the amendment which I 

send to the desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

After "dollars" in line 10 insert: · '''.rhattheSem!etaryofW~risherel>yauthorizeu and,di.rected toappointacommission, to consist of two officers of the Enginet>r Corps of the Army and one· from civil life, to make surveys for the construct-ion of 1·eservoirs on the Poudre, 

Platte, and Saint Vrain for the storage of surplus water to be used in irrigating and reclaim.ins the public lands located in the State of Dolorado, and to report the probable cost of the constructioi.J. of such work:; and the sum of ~~ ouo is 

hereby appropriated to defray the expenses of such commission." 

l'Ir. WILLIS. I make the point of order on thi amendment. 

Mr. BELFORD. ·well, I hope my friend from Kentucky will l'e- serve his point of order until I can be heard upon this amendment.: 

Mr. WILLIS. I will"1·eserve the point. ' 

The CHAIRl\IAN. ·The gentlem:m from Kentucky asks leave to xe- serve points of order on this amendment until the gentleman from · 

Colorado [Mr. BELFORD] has been heard. Is there objection? The 

Chair hears none. . Mr. BELFORD. Mr. Chairman, this is the only bill before the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union in which my section of 

t.he countJ:y has no" pqrk" whatever. I have but one single objection 

to this l;>ill of my friend f1:om .Kentucky, which I shall vote for; and 

t-hat is, he has not made ~e slices-of ''pork ' ' sufficiently large. 

I want t,o tell you gentlemeJl who ha.ve undertaken the contract of 

wringingoutandsweepj.ngthecarpetonwhichRepublic:msha>ewalked 

_for the last twenty-five years, what.you ought to do with tne appropriationS pf this Government. You have in the Treasury of the United 

States to-day-[laughter]-oh, yes; this is the old story, "unlock 

the Treasury;" but wait till I ~et through with it. You have in the 

Treasury of the United States to-day $145,000,000 of a>ai1able cash. 

[Laughter.] Not one dollai of that sum is expended by this administration. [At this point ~Ir. BELFORD walked over to tile Democmtic 

side of the Honse.] I want to get o,·er here and talk to my friends. 

-[Laughter.] 

In the. last Congres l\Ir. , peaker CARLISLE, a man whom I profoundly honor on account of his justice, his integrity, and his impartiality, introdueed in this House a bill to refund the national debt at 

3. per cent. You can all readily recall the 'illibustering we had in this 

JHouse at that time, and you can also readily n~CJ.ll the fact that on every vote "in that filibustering epoch I stood up with you Democrats ·like a lone pine tree in the de~ert. [Laughter.] We broke that ''deadlock." We passed that bill. Rutherford B. Hayes-who, in my judgment, never was elected President of the United States [laughter and 

applause on the Democratic side], although ~voted to heat you Democrats, because you had not the courage to stand hp for your rights 

[laughter]-Rutherford B. Hayes vetoed that bill. 

Then Garfield came in. He was going to call an extm session of 

Congress t~ see whether he could not get a refunding bill which would 

suit the administration better than that bill introduced by Hon. J OHY - G. CA.BLISLE. The llanks had brought a pressure on the Treasury of 

the United States. They had sent in, I think it was, over $18,000,000 

under a contract with John Sherman that when the pressure went by 

he -would return the money to them. 

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman is exhausted . . 

Mr. MILLS. I will 'take the :floor and yield my time to the gentleman from Colorado. . Mr. BELFO:RD. Thanks. I have not been he:\rd for two months. 

Just give me a chance. [Laughter.] 

Now, Mr. Chairman, the Democrats came into power in this House, 

and we told :Mr. Sherman he should not return the $18,000,000 to those 

thieving, villainous bankers in the city of :New York, who were seeking to contl·ol the currency of the whole country. That is point No. 1. 

Now I wish togiveyoupoint No.2. I wish·to see whether you D~mocrats have the nerve and the heroism and the courage ·to ·do wb.at is 

right in the next four years. I recollect walking down from this Capitol, when Garfield was inaugurated, with one of'the most distinguished 

Senators from the South-I mean up the Avenue from the Treasury 

Department-and he said: ·'' There is no use talking about it, you Republicans have this country for twenty-five years;" and in six weeks we were all together, pulling each others ears from the coast of the 

Atlantic, where the sun .first stops to take up the dew-drops, to the coast 

of the Pacific Ocean, where he stoops to cool his hot axle. [Applause.] 

That is what you are going to have now. What was the campaign 

you fought last year? What was the sum and substance of it all? 

The great Republican party that had conquered the most magnificent 

army on the face of the earth, our Southern friends, came out with a b1·oad declaration, floating all over the nation, with one single objection tb,at was suspended in the s'l--y like a magnet, and that was that 

Grover Cleveland kissed a widow one day too late. [Great laughter.] 

Was not that the whole substance of the campai~? Then the Democrats, to equal it up, to cover it over on every ~ide, came out with the 

magnificent issue that another candidate for the Presidency had kissed a maiden one day too soon. [Renewed laughter.] Was not that a beautiful issue to present to. a great natiQn by t~o great parties of ibis 

country? The result of tt was that the great mass of thE! people preferred the widow on the ground that she had more information and 

experience on that subject. [Renewed laughter.] 

But what I want to caJ.l your attention to is this. I stated that you 

had $145,000,000 of surplus in the Treasuryofthis nation. You have 

callable, redeemable bonds at this hour to the amount of $197,"000, 000. 

Why do you not take this $145,000,000 out of the Treasury, buy $145,-

000,000 of these Windom bonQ.s and discharge our debt to that amount? 

1\fr. SPRINGER. We have not got the key of the Treasury yet. ~Ir. BELFORD. And you will not do· it when you do have the-key. 

You have got a bill pending here to-day w~ere the estimates, I am informed, amount to $34,000,000 while your appropriations amount to 

$12,000,000.' I wish to God Almightyt.he ehairmanofthe Committee 

on Appropriations in this House conll;l b~ aftlicted with the disease 

called the malady of thought i~ the direction of liberal appropriations. [Laughter.] • Now, why am I in favor of this Galveston.Harbor? Weare building a railroad from the city of Denver to Galveston. We expect to avail 

ourselves of the products of Texas and ship her cattle through Colorado 

to. the East. _ · The CHAIR~IA.N. The gentleman's time 'is exhausted. 

Mr. BELFORD. I will have to get in the balance of what I want 

to say some other time. . . Mr. WILLIS. I make the point of order against the gentleman's 

amendment that it is not within the jurisdiction of a bill appropriating 

money for rivers and harbor. Besides, it is the substance of a pending 

bill and therefore not in order. . The CHAIRUAN. Does the gentleman from Colorado desire to be 

heard on tile point of order? _ .Mr. BELFORD. I expect the Chair will rule my amendment out. 

The CHAITIMAN. · The gentleman from Colorado admits his amendment is obnoxious to 1he point of order, and tl1e .Chair rules it out. 

Mr. llELFOllD. I think any amendment on the subject of water is 

obnoxious UQder tlle general rules of this House. [Laughter.] 

Mr. WHITE, of Kcutucky. -I.moveto s~ikeoutthelast three words 

of the pending paTJ.gr::tph. 

l\Ir. Chairman, I ·desire to c:11l the attention of this committee to the 

further fact that works which have been begun have not been prosecuted with that zeal ' and economy which should cha1'Acterize great 

naijonal 'vorks, :nH.l I call the attention of the committee to this fact: 

that the Chief of Engineera does not know how much we are paying 

annually to civil engineers, how much we are paying annually to the 

regular Engineer Corps; and he has not the remotest conception of what 

the value of the plant is. But we know enough to·understand that 

there are men in this employment at salaries varying from $350 down 

to $85 per month as engineers. I shall i~corporate in my remarks what 

I have been able to find of information on this subject. This much I 

learn, that the officers in charge of the work, I mean the civilian engi- neers as well as the regular Engineer Corps, are paid annual salaries; 

amounting in the aggre~ate to half a million dollars a year. 

More than this, I find that the annual pay of employes whose names appear in the last Blue Book, those who are above the grade of laborers, was.$515,000 for the Mississippi River Commi !'1ion alone. (See 

speech of Mr. HEPDURN, first session Forty-eighth Congress.) Now all 

these expenses go on whether we make a large or a small appropriation 

for rivers and harboxs. . I desh·e to re..'\d now from a report of the Chief of Engineers, General 

Newton: . . Hon. Mr. ''VniTE, Hrmse of Represtntatives: 

SIR: In reply to your telephonic message, just received, asking the salaries 

paid td civil engineers employed by the United States on rivers and harbors, as well as the value of the plant employed on rivers throughout the United States, I have the honor to state ~hat the salaries paid the assistant engineers varyft·om $25Q to $85 a month. 

He made a mistake there, for it is from $350 down to $85. 

The total number of these assistants is one hundred and eighty-tlU"ee. His 

impossible to state the vall}e of, the plant employed on rivet'S throughout the 

United States, except by addressing the individual officers of the Corps of Engi- neers in charge of the works or -improvements. 

Very respectfully, yow· obedient servant, 

JOHN NEWTON, 

Chief of Engineers, Brig., Brt. Maj. Gen. 

Is not that a beautiful officer to have at tlie head of these great. 

works? · · 

Again he says in a telegcam: . 

Hon. JoHN D. WHITE: 

' 'VAR DEPARTM.EST, ,J'anuary 31, 188i). 

It is impossible to answer your question wilhoot a careful examination of 

office records, which would require much work for many days. If no appropriations are made and no work is to be done, the plant could be sold and expenses 1·educed to zero in a very short time upon many small works. 

• 

JNO. NEWTON, 

Chief Engineers • 
1270 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

~ 

Now, sir, the point I desire t.o make is that no matter whether that place at the lower st-eamboat wharf, whereas now they have to make the stop in - bill carries $11,000,000 or whether it carries $25,000,000, you have the the lower bay (except at high wat~r) and transfer passengers and freights on board of a lighter, at great expense and loss of time. 

annual expense of the maChinery, of the plant, of the engineers, and the Much of the lumber manufactured in the saw-mills at Cherryfield (about seven annual salaries of officers and employes above the grade of laborem, miles above the draw-bridge) is shipped from the portofl\lillbridge. Vessels of 

and if your bill is a small one so much · the less goes for your public the larger a.ss areal~ built here st three different spip-yards. 

improvements. I will state also, Mr. Chairman, that this poip.t is a landing point for 

\ I wish to call the attention of the committee to th-e fact, also, that the line of steamers between Mount Desert Ferry and Annapolis, Nova 

this bill of $11,000,000, when the Engineer Department of the Govern- Scotia. Without going any further into the details of the matter I ask 

ment, under thefr sworn statements, tell us they can ll$e judiciously, for the adoption of my amendment appropriating $20,000 for this im-

)"visely, profitably, and economically $34,000,000, amounts simply to provement. The engineem recommended 50,000, but I have -placed 

saying that you do not have faith in the capacity of the engineers to the amount at $20,000, bringing it as near as possible to what I believe 

form a judgment, or that you havee1n abiding faith in your comm.it-Ule has been the pro rata proportion adopted by the committee. 

that aets with closed doors. · Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I think it is hardly necessary to say more · If we are convinced that the engineers aie correct in their methods in connection with this matter than to state the fact that there is not 

and estimates, then we ought to appropriate the full amount of money aline before the committee with reference to this improvement. Whatrecommended by them. · ever information we have in regard to it is in old reports of the engiIn the protest against a river and harbor bill of a former Congress, to neers, and a.s there is no report bearing upon it before· the committee it . which I alluded a few moments ago, 'Mr. Speaker CARLISLE, Mr. was not under consideration and has not received any consideration. 

;wiLLIS, and 1\-!r .. Cox, and,. a number of Democrats signing the protest, Mr. BOUTELLE. Will the gentleman permit me to suggest that 

the theory was laid !!own that, in the first -place, the appropriation I endeavored in every possible way to have information with regard to 

wasunconstitutional, andin the-second, tbatwedidnothavethemoney this matter placed before the committee? I oonferred with no fewer 

in the Treasury. If your Democrati~ platform of 1884 can be relied than three members of the committee. I submitted to them this report ~pon as the basis of your belief, then your constitutional objection is and placed before them my correspondence with the engineer in charge overcome. If you ·can rely upon the statement of the Secretary of tb8 of the coast of Maine, one of whose communications I hol<} in my hand, 

';l'reasury that there are now $146,000,000 in the Treasury, the second which declares that a further survey and report are unnecessary, beobjection is overcome. The question then reems, do the people want cause the survey heretofore made was entirely adequate to justify the 

cheap transportation? If they do, how are they to get it? I answer, appropriation. · by improving the rivers; by improving the harbors, and by compelling .Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. The point is that we had no current report, 

the railroads to come in direct competition with nature's own water which is usual in such cases from the engineers; a fact which is not in 

ways. · conflict at all with the statement made by the gentleman from M:ai.ne. 

But if you are going to make any of these improvements, where will As to cases of that sort, .the committee saw very clearly there was alyou stop? Will you stop with the Cumberland River on the idea that most an indefinite number of them. There were more of a current charit is a great ri-ver, or with the Great Pee Dee River on the ground that it acter than we could deal justly by, and they did not consider it ex- is a great river; or will you stop'iwitb the Big Tombigbee River on the pedient to enter into that class of cases. idea that it is a great river? There is no limit if you carry out the Mr. BOUTELLE. What class of cases does ~he gentleman refer to? 

ltheory embodied in the decision of the Supreme Court, that every river Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. The cases that have .not got current re- on which there is commerce is a navigable river. And, in my humble ports and are not indorsed by the Chief of Engineers. Once yo~ tb.row 

opinion, we shalT make adequate appropriations from the abundance in open that door, and there is no end to the appropriations that would 

'our Treasury to improve all the navigable water ways of the Republic, be demanded at the hands of the committee. Therefore we discarded 

and thus insure competition with railroads and secure cheap transporta- that class of propositions without beginning to express an opinion upon 

tion for the people of the United States. · them, having more submitted to us than we can do justice by. This 

-[Here the hammer fell.] is not a condemnation of -the project but a non-examination of it. 

The Clerk read as follows: J\.Ir. BOUTELLE. Permit nieto saytbat it seems to me impossible 

lmp~oving harbOr at Ba~gor and Penobscot Rh·er, Maine: Continuing im- under the rule adopted by the committee for any appropriation to be 

provement, $15,000. · obtained for any im-provement that may lui.ve been recommended in 

Mr. BOUTtiLE. I desiie to ofter the amendment which I send to the past. There is no way to get a new survey and a new recommen- the desk. dation, because the engineers have alrea{}y made the survey and it 

The Clerk read as follows: would be a waste of m01:iey to survey it again. I appea~ to the House 

At the end of line 12 insert: to act upon this on the merits of the survey niade and reported on in 

"Improving the mouth of the N arraguagns River at J_\Iillbridge, Me., $20,000." the regular ·mode some years ago. • 

Mr. BOUTELLE. Mr. Chairman, that proposition to put an item The question being taken on agreeing to Mr. BouTELLE's amendinto the appropriation bill for that improvement was referred to the ment, there were-ayes 51, noes 57. 

Committee on Rivers and Harbors; and as the members of the Honse Mr. BOUTELLE. No quorum. were not given the permission or privilege this year of going before the· '!he CHAIRUAN. _A quorum not ]laving v_ote~, the Chair will apcommittee, we were obliged to pla.ce propositions of that 1..-ind in the pomt tellers, and llppomts the gentteman from Ma1ne, Mr. BOUTELLE, ·hands of so:r.ue member and trust to the action of the committee upon _and the gentleman from Arkan as, Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. 

them. . · The com.Itll.ttee again divided; and the tellers 1·eported-ayes 81, 

I have been informed that the reason why the committee failed to noes 84. 

include that item in the bill is because it is not recommended in the So the amendment was not agreed to. 

Book of Estimates for this year, and that the committee in preparing Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move to strike out the last word of 

the bill had adopted the rule or usage that they would not insert any- -the paragraph. . · thing in their bill not embraced in the recommendations of the Book Now, Mr. Chairman, I desire to· call the attention of this committee 

of Estimates. to the further fact -that while we 4ave got one hundred and forty-six 

. I found :upon inquiry of the engineers connected with these works millions in the Treasurywehave, under Democratic influences, the ame that a survey bad been made and a recommendation filed in the year President who vetoed the river and harbor bill of 1882 appointing a _1880 by the board ef engineers. The suggestion was then made that free-trade Democrat as Secretary of the Treasury who is also a free- an item be inserted for a survey for this work. I was informed.by the whisky Democrat, and bas gone so far as to lend millions of money to 

engineer in charge of that portion of the coast that he bad examined the whisky '"'ring;" and yet, sir, the Republican. party went out of 

the report made in 1880 by General Thom, of the engineers; that the power because it appropriated eighteen millions and a. half for the peo- ·report seemed to be adequate, and that if a new survey were ordered ple's public works. I desire to read here a statement from a Demobe should be obliged to state that it was unnecessary. JJpon making cratic paper in accord with the President. It says: 

ihah suggestion the item for the survey was stricken out of the bill; As a. matter of fact the President has all along sympathized with the distillers and therefore as the bill stands now no provis~on has been made. in their distress, and was glad when it was discove1·ed that a remedy remained 

'l'he proposition for the improvement of this river is based upon the within the law. Friends of the measure who were urging it did not neglect~ of 

course, to lay their case before the Executive, o.nd were greatly' encoru·agea at 

report of the engineers, to be found upon pages 535, 536, and 537 of the every step of t-he proceedings by the knowledge that his good wishes attended 

report-for 1880. It is a-report on improving the mouth of the Narra- tliem. There was never a. moment, indeed, when the President would have unn2 us River at Millbridge, Me. In that report the engm' eer making throwna.·singleobstaclein the way. Thistalktha.tthedistillershave succeeded o-~ in securing from the Secretary of the Treasm-y what Congress had deuied to 

the survey states: · them _reveals only the _pigheadedness of some people. 

Theimprovementproposedfubemadeatthisplaceconsistsindredginga.channel from deep water below Turner's Point to the deep water of Fickett's Point, Mr. Chairman, I desire to call the attention of the country to the fact 

called the "Deep Hole," the only available anchorage in the harbor. As this that while this Committee on Rivers and Harbors h!lS been able to re- place is only accessible at or near high tide for yessels navigating these waters, rt · ~ n1 third 1 tb t hich ha b it is now of little value for vessels seeking· shelter during heavy weather and at po an appropna.,.Lon O Y one- as arge as a W s een time of low water. At present there is only ftve and a. half feet of water at mean recommended- by the sworn engineers, the Chief Executive, through his 

low water, or four feet a.t extreme low water, over the several bars crossing the Cabinet, has been able to lend to the most infernal whisky monopoly channel. This improvement would also enable the-steamers of the Portland, in this country millions of dollars, money which under the la.w has Bangor and Machias Steambont Oompany,which touch at this port four times a week during the entire year, to land passengers and the he;1vy freights for this fallen due, and which under the action of this Congress in its first scs-
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1271 

sion and under the action of the Forty-seventh.Congress in both its ses- of the UD.ion anything which relates to the welfare of the Union is a4· 

sions was required to be paid when due. missible in the discussion. If I can show to the intellect of the gen· 

Again, sir, I want to call the attention of the country to the fact that tleman from Texas that whisky regulation by the Treasury Department 

this bill is going to be put 'through by a Democratic majority, co~- was made beca'Q.Se there w~ abundance of money in the Treasury, and 

posed, in part, of at least forty members who are not entitled to seats because there we?e Democratic influences brought to bear upon it-if I 

upon this floor. I remember when a most elegant gentleman from can show that the Democratic majority in. this House and in the other 

Georgia [Mr. BLOUNT] the other day called attention to the fact that wing of the Capitol is not the old J effersollian~ not the old Jacksonian 

the gentleman from 1\fichigan [Mr. HoRR] had not been returned to Democraey, but the late seceding Democracy; and if! can sl!ow to the 

the nex..t Congress. I wondered whether it had come to this, that a entire satisfaction of this House that we have more money in the Treasmember occupying a seat on this floor by the small vote of 3,514 in a uryfor rivers and harborS than we have to lend to whisky men, I think 

district containing 87,000coloreslpeopleand only!)5,000wltltepeople, a the House will pardon me for the slight allusion which I have made to 

district which has a· colored majority of 22,258, and in which there are whisky in discussing a water bill. 

at least ~,000 voters-! wondered, I say, whether we had reached the The CHAillMAN. Does the gentleman desire to be heard further 

point where a gentleman occupying a seat under such conditions would on the point of order? . comment here upon the fact that another gentleman had failed to be 1\lr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Not on the poin1; of order. I desire to 

returned to the next Congress. If it be said that the gentleman from proceed with my remarks, if the gentleman from Texa.s.will allow me. Georgia had no opponent, I desire to call .attention to the fact that in The CHAillMAN. ·The Clerk wUl read from the Digest, page 28'2. 

the election of a Congressman at large the vote was only 3,348 for the The Cffirk read as follows: 

Democratic candidate at large, and only 162 (or the Republican candi- ".A. member shall confine himself to the question under debate and avoid per- date at large in this district containing at least 25,000 voters, and having sonality."-RULE XIV, clause 1: but in Committee of the Whole on the state of a colored population of 23,258 in excess of ·its white population. you the Union he is not bound to confine himself to the guestion under debate-Cbng. Globe, 2, 30, p. 587; :t.·3l,p. 1475; 1, 32, p. 1856-except where a special 'order is 

may apply this test to gentlemen on the other side of the House and you pending, when the debate must be confined strictly to the measure under con· will find that there are at least forty of them sitting here who have no sidera.tion. 

right to their seats. Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Now 1 in reference to this point of order 

[Here the hanimer fell.] I would like to say one word further. I am aware of f!he fact that on The CHAillMAN. The Clerk will report the next paragraph. yesterday general leave was given t~ print in the REcoim; but this pro. 

The Clerk read as follows: viso was put in, 'that nothing should be printed under that leave which 

For improving breakwa.te1· at mouth of Saco River, 1\Iaine: Continuing im- did not directly relate to the river and. harbor bill. And it was just 

provement and repairs, $10,000. • to suit the case of the gentleman from Texas that I rose to make these 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move to strike out the last two words. remarks, so that I would not have to print them in the REQORD under 

Now, Mr. Chairman, I have not time to itemize the vote in the that general leave. I am glad to have the g~tleman's attention, and 

counties, but I s~all do so in my printed remarks. I hope I shall be allowed to proceed. . Mr. REAGAN. 1\Ir. Chairman, I make the point of ord~r that the Mr. WILLIS. I hope my colleague [Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky] will 

gentleman from Kentucky [:Ur. WHITE] is not discussing any question be permitted to go on, and that the gentleman from Texas will with· 

that is· before the House or that is germane to the bill under considera- draw his point of order. I believe this Committee of the Whole desires 

tion. This is a water bill, and not a whisky bill or an election bill. to proceed as business men in the consideration of a business matter. 

Mr. WHITE, ofKentuc1.ry. Whisky and waternaturallygotogether, :Mr. REAGAN. I think it is an imposition upon the House to. in· 

the more you take of one the more you want of the other. [Laugh- dulge in general remarks of. this character when we are operating under 

ter]. . an order of the House to consider the river and harbor appropriation · The CHAillMAN. The gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WHiTE] bill. We are ·not in Committee of the Whole for general debate; but 

will confine his ·remarks to the question betbre the Committee of the we are considering the river and hatbor bill under the five-.n:iinute rule.' 

Whole. It has been ruled a hundred times in my hearing within the last few 

1\Ir. REAGAN. Do I understand the Chair to overrule the point of years that under these circumstances remarks must be confined to the 

order? · question before the Committee of the Whole. · 

The CHAIRMAN . . On the contrary, the Chair held the point of TheCHAlRl\IAN. TheChairhasnohesitatjonastotheproperruling 

order to be well taken, and requested the gentleman from Kentucky to in this particular case. By order of the House, the Committee of the 

confine his remarks to the question before the committee. ·· . Whole is proceeding to consider the river and harbor appropriation bill. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I ask the arttention of the gentleman from The Chair, therefore, regards it as a special order; so that the general 

Texas (Mr. REAGAN] to the fact that I am coming rapidly to Galves- rule in regard to debate in Committee of the Whole on the state of the 

ton Harbor. [Laughter.] ~ hope the gentleman will possess his soul Union d~ not apply, but members are required to confine their re· in patience, for I am aware of the fact, which he will not deny, that marks to the question under conside:ration: Therefore the Ohair holds 

nearly $2,000,000 have been sunk in Galveston Harbor, and that the that the remarks of the gentleman frow, Kentucky were out of order. 

proposition of this bill which will meet with most univ:ersal condem- The gentleman has two minutes left, in which he may proceed in otder. 

nation is the one to create a harbor for a city where 'there is shoal water 1\u. WHITE, of Kentucky. 1\Ir. Chairman, .I desire to call attenfor fifty miles in front of it. tion to the fact that from the foundation of this Government down to 

1\Ir. Chairman, the Democratic party has come into power upon such the present 'time we have appropriated for purposes of this kind not 

doctrines as this: "We believe that labor is best rewarded where it is $105,000,000, as was stated by seyeral. gentlemen who are members of 

freest and most intelligent;" and yet, sir, in the Georgia district to which this close corporation called the Committee on· Rivers and Harbors, but 

I have alluded there are152,000 people, over25,000ofthem voters, and we have appropnated $142,000,000; and if.this bill passes we sha]J. 

less than.4,000 actually-voting. _ have appropriated $154,445,339. 

Ur. REAGAN. 1\Ir. Chairman, I must insist upon the point of order. · · Mr. REED, of Maine. Not counting what the Senate 'Jill add. 

The gentleman from Kentucky (Mr. WHITEJ.isdiscussing an election Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. NotcountingwhattheSenatewilladd, 

in the State of Georgia, and not anything contained in this bill. as my friend from 1\!aine suggests.· 1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. REA- Now:, General Gillmore, inhisrepo:r:to~theCharlestonHarbor, sfutes: 

GAN] is better posted in thehl<rliory of this inatter than I am, but the It bas been the subject of profound regret on my part that the importance 

country does not know as much about it as my friend from Texas does, of ~ gyea.t national work bas not been recognized in Congress by lib~ral apfor he was in a position for four years to know all about it. propna.tions. 

These are some of the Democratic doctrines: 1\Iark the language, ''liberal appropriations.'' 

We believe that labor is the best rewarded where it is freest and most enlight- Frequent stoppages and increase in the ultimate cost of the work have been 

ened. We oppose sumptuary laws which vex the citizen and interfere with in- the result of this policy. · 

dividualliberty- He asksfor$600,000, and this committee proposes to appropriate the 

1\Ir. REAGAN. M.t. Chairman, I must again call the attention of sumof$150,000. Inreadingsuchstatementsasthisfrom the engineer's 

the Chair to the fact that the. gentleman from Kentucky iS not discuss- report, I naturally inquired as to the. annual cost of the plant, the ma-- ing the measure before· the House. chinery, and all the equipage for-carrying on thiS woi:k, together with 

'.fhe CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WHITE] the salaries ofthe men who must be employed whetherwemake large' 

will suspend. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. REAGAN] will please or small appropriations. I desired to get at these facts in order to show: 

cite the rule to which ·he invites the attention of the Chair, and which to .this committee and to the country that in view of all the outlay 

he thinks is violated by the gentleman from Kentucky. necessarily made a small bill is niggardly; a small bill is not up to the 

Mr. REAGAN. Mr. Chairman, dol have to cite a rule to show that needsofthetimes; andasnoCongressmancangetadollarofthemoney 

in a five-minute debate a gentleman is not entitled to discuss ma~ appropriated for rivers and harbors, the President's insinuating veto 

that are not relevant or germane to the bill we are considering? If so, message to the contrary notwithstanding, we should appropriate liber·· 

I will take my seat. · ally for public works so as to insure their economic and early com4 

M:r. WHITE, of Kentucky. Mr. Chairman, I desire to be heard on pletion. 

the point of order. [Here the haml;Iler fell.] 

In reply to the gentleman from Texas, I want to say that, if I am not The Clerk read as follows: 

mistaken, when the House is in Committee of the Whole on the state Improving harbor at Portsmouth,N. H.: Continuin~ improvement, $1.0,000. 
1272 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-. HOUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

• Mr. HAYNES. I move to strike ·out '~ 10,000 " and, in lieu thereof. 

to insert $20,000. · · Now, :lrfr. Chairman, I have offered this. amendment in good faith, 

and from .a. knowledge that the sum recommended by the committee in 

their report and in the bill before the House is totally inadequate to 

carry on the work now in progress at Portsmouth Harbor. I think I 

do not underestimate the peculiar difficulties under which this com- mittee labor in their work; but this I must a.y, that taking this ,item 

by itself, independent of every other item in this report, I am unable 

to understand by what course of reasoning "they have arrived at the 

conclusion they have. But taking it in comparison with other recom- mendations-herein contai.ried for harbors of much less importance and 

for harbors of less magnitude, I am still more in the dark. We have 

here one of the most important harbors on the Atlantic coast, a harbor . in a great many respects unexcelled by any llarbor of this co1.mtry, a harbor where the heaviest vessel that floats, or e>er will float, can enter 

at all stages of the tide and in all seasons of the year, :1 harbor that con- tains one of the great naval stations of this country, a harbor where; in 

the last year, by the report before me, over eight hundred vessels arrived. . Now, the Chief of Engineers recommends, and I think: he simply re- iterates the former recommendation , that all appropriations for this 

harbor shall be expended at one point until the work there is completed, · namely, for the removal of what is known as the Gangway Rock, a dungerous obstacle in the channel of the harbor, right in the jaws of 

the commerce that enters that port. The character of this obstruction 

he states as follow : 

Owing to the strong tiuul currents in this harbor, Gangway Rock has }Jl'Oveu to hen serious difficulty to navigation, anu especially so to United tates vesseli! 

which hay~ visited thi port and the navy-yard. 

It is not alone Mr. Chairman, ~menace to private interest~ and private, comme1·ce but to Government inte'fe ts. 

[Here the hammer fell.] · M.r. WILLIS. I desire to &'tY in reganl to Portsmouth Haxbor that 

the committee were governed by the following fact: The Chief of 

Engineers re_ports, as the gentleman states, that Gan~ay. Rock .is the 

only point upon which work hould now .be done; that nothing ell'le 

shoul(l be touched until this :was out of the way. His report shows. that Gangway Rock is half remo\"'ed, and the estimate for that was 

$85,00o-1eaving$42,000. There are $24,000 on hand and :510,000 appropriated in t1iis bill-making enough to remove that rock; and tmtil 

it is remoYed no other work can be done. The committee has-endeavored to be just to this harbor, a its import:mce require . I ask for a 

vote. 

The committee divided; ·and there were-ayes i50, noe GO. 

' · l\lr. HAYNES, No quorum has voted. 

The CHA..IllUAN. The point of order being made, the Chair will 

appoint as tellerS l\Ir, WILLIS and 1\fr. -HAYNES. . ' Mr. :WILLIS. I hope my fdend will not make that point. ·. · The CHAIRUAN. Does the gentleman insist on it? · Mr. HAYNES. No; I will withdraw th~ point. · So the amendment was disagreed to. 

'l'he Clerk read as follows: 

Improving harbor at Burliw.:to_n, Vt.: Continuing improvement, $'.20,000. 

Mr. JOHN S. WISE. I desire to oiier the following amendment: 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, That this and ·au other improvements of riv~r and hru:bors pro- vided for in this bill shall be-conducted by the Engineer Department, undet· the 

11ulhority and ilirection of :fames B. Ends. · 

1\fr. WI.J;.LIS. I make the point of order against that amendment. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Kentucky will state his 

point of order. ~Ir. WILLIS. We are not on· the question of-legislation. We arc 

considering rivers and harbc;>rs; and the amendment.is not within the 

jurisdictidh of the committee. 

l'tlr. JOHN S. WISE. I ask leave to strike ~ut everything that re- lates to any other portion of the bill ex~t this particular clause. 

l\Ir. WILLIS. I hope my friend will withdraw that, and let us go on as business men with this bill. 

:Mr. JOHNS. WISE. I think it would be ea ier to finish the matter by inserting that amendment; but I will move to strikeout th"e last 

word. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is recognized on thatameodment. 

M.r. JOHN S. WISE. Mr. Chairman, I shall probably be absent from 

the House at the time the clam;e i,s 1·eached which contains the name of 

M:r. Eads as putting him in charge of the improvement at Galveston 

and elsewhere, and it was a desire to putmyselfonrecordon that point 

which led me to offer the amendment while I yet had the opportunity 

to be heard. 

I occupy, it is true, a position,· sir, upon the Committee on Levees and 

Improvements of the Mississippi River, but I am frank to confess I 

know no more al:>out the subject now than I did when I attended t.he only 

meeting of that committee which has been held since I had the honor 

t.o be upon it., aml !speak upon this subject ~a sufferer to some ex- ~nt by the >ery propo ition which is now made. 

I speak as one who knows that the question of Mr. Eads's ability, the 

question of the success of his plans, of his enterprises, the question as to whether he is a great success or a. great failure as an engineer is a mooted question in the minds of the people of this country, scientific or otherwise~ and not a concluded question by any means as this bill as- sumes it to be. 

I have observed, sir, the· unanimity with which the gentlemen from 

that section of the country who represent it here on this floor seem to 

espouse the idea of his ability; and I give them credit for their perfect 

good faith in what they have S:1id and all they propose to do conceming it. Bu~ there are hundl·eds and thousands of men in the Mississippi Valley to-day, as I know from ownership and interest in Mj issippi 

and Louisiana property, who believe honestly 'that the system and 

c4emes-propo ed by Mr. Eads as prosecuted to-day are going to ultimately ru.i.n the Missi sippi Valley. There are men who believe that 

under the present system of engineering adopted or recommended by 

him he will force the river through the Bonnet Cane crevasse or the 

Atchafalaya River, as it is inclined now to go u.nder the present system 

of improving the river qs far as it has gone. 

The tendency is already in that dir<'ction. There are men there in 

that valley, scientific or otherwise, who believe this is to be the result; 

and yet the proposition of the. committee in reporting this bill to the 

House is to absolutely ignore the whole Engineer Department of this 

Government, headed by the Chief of Engineers, who .wears the stars of a gener::tl upon his collar and who has been educated at the national 

academy where millions and millions of dollars have been spent to give 

the best engineering instmction tl1at the wol'ld can give. The proposition embodied in this bill to-day is that we are to ignore and set aside 

that whole Department, and on the ip:sc di:l:it of a non-professional com- mittee, to put aside a regularly organized department of fQis Government and place one of the largest, greatest, and most important improYements proposed in this whole country in charge of a gentleman 

whose th(!Ories and schemes arc at be t but problematical. 

N'ow, sir, I desire to place myself on record as being opposed to .that 

in toto, and I maintain if this is to be carried out here we might as well 

at once abolish the departm.ent of .engineering at Wet Point and let 

the Committee on Rivers and Harbox ~ take full control. 

fHere the hammer fell.] . .Mr. LIBBEY obtained the floor and yielded his time to Mr. JoHN 

S. WISE. 

.Mr. JOH~ S. WISE. I am Yery much obliged·to my colleague. 

Now, Mr. Chairman, I haveprettymuch8aidall thatldesired toS:1y 

in this connection. I S:1Y1 only to complete the sentence which was on my lips when my time expired, that if this !ecommendationof the com- mittee is to be taken, if their plan is to be adopted, let us follow it up 

to its legitimate conclusions by the announcement that the United, tates 

academy at West Point is a failure. . ) 

Let us follow it up by the announcement that we have an organization containing hundreds of men educated at a vast expense to the 

Government, paid millions of dollars in salaries, .as has been shown by 

the statistics furnished by General Newton, who do not · know wba.t 

they are about. I ask you to follow it up by that allllouncement; 

But, Mr. ~irman, it is not necessary to follow it. up, because the very 

act which has been presented here for our adoption is itself an an· nouncement that the Committee on Rivers and Harbors of the House 

of Representatives of the United States knows more about engineering 

science than the engineers of the A.rmy, and that they and Mr. Eads can run this GoYernment, while there is nothing for the Engineer Department to do but to draw its pay and take a back seat. 

I have never in my life seen a proposition which not on_ly igno1·ed 

but absolutely insulted the Department of Eagineers as this does. I 

say that it is a proposition which assumes that a mooted and vexed 

question about the MiSsissippi River and its treatment is settled, and 

settled by the views of l\u: Eads, and· that that ystem carries with it a right and title to take posses~ion of the vast improvements of this 

Government and control thematwill and establish plans based on: any 

kind of theory, while the Engineering Department ofthe Government 

is to stand by and idly suck its thumbs. That is what it means. Let me add in conclusion, 11-Ir. Chairman, that I do not make this 

statement as an enemy or opponent of this bill. I make it as a friend 

of river and harbor improvements, and I make it as a man.,wbo will 

vote liberally for the enlargement of these appropriations from Uaine 

to Florida,· and as one, who deprecates the introduction he1·e of the 

idea by anybody that "you get more than I do," or that "your sec- tion gets more than .mine." When it comes to Boston Harbor, which 

has had more money poured out into it than my whole State ever got, 

I mean to vote for Boston; and if there is anybody here who believes 

it to be necessary and wants to move to increa e the amount, I will 

vote with him for it. But the greatest calamity that could have befallen this bill was the introduction of this personal direction clause 

in it. 

I say it is not right, sir, to tie up the fortunes and theories of a private individual with the adoption of a great measure of national importa.J:¥!e such as this. I say it is a misfortune that an adventurer :md 

his fortunes ·should be linked with a measure of public policy; and 

when this bill is to be voted upon I shall vote for every appropriation it 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· HOUSE. 1273 --- * . contains, and more besides if it is believed that they are not sufficientJ from-Kentucky is that the amendment is not P,ermane to the clause; 

but that proposition I'can never sustain. . · the point made by the gentleman from illinois LMr. SPRINGER] is that 

I only desired, Ur. Chairman, in this hurried manner to record before . it is not germane to tJie bill. 

this Honse and the country my view th.at the proposition to make the ML SPRINGER. Not germane to this clause of the bill. 

fortunes of one man by incorporating his name in a great national meas- Mr. HEPBURN. This bill is for the purpose of carrying on certain 

ure in ~efiance and to the exclusion of the Engineer Department of this works of improvement. Engineers are essential incidents to carrying 

Government in its bol(Jness and audacity surpasses anything I have ever on all these improve:rp.ents. They must be provided for in some way, 

witnessed in this House. and it is proposed by this amendment to provide for them in part. It 

The CHAIRMAN. The time for debate on this amendment has ex- seems to me that it is clearly germane to ~he general purpose of the 

pired. bill, and therefore germane to all of the clauses of the bill, 

1\fr. HEPBURN. I offer the amendment which I send to the desk. · The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will again read the amendment for 

The Clerk read as follows: information. · 

After Hne 16 insert the follo,ying: · . The amendment was again read. 

"Provided, That no part of the sums in this act appropriated shall be paid to Mr. REED, of Maine. :Mr. Chairman, it is certainly competent for 

civil engineers; and the Secretary of War is hereby directed to detail fram the this House, while it is makinR" an appropriation, to sayhowthatannro- Army of the United States such a number of captains a.nd lieutenants as will ~ .1:'.1:' 

perform tbe labors of the ch-il engineers now employed under the direction of priation shall be expended. If this is not a general appropriation bill 

the Sec1·etary of War. " and 11ot subject· to the particular nile, then cert.ainly it mnstr come 

Mr. WILLIS. I make the point of order on that amendment, and under th\) general rnle which enables Congress to (lirect the manne1· of 

pending that I appeal to my friend from Iowa .to withhold it until we the expenditure, and it has been t·epe:ltedly ruled. In such a case, if it 

get to the section where it would have a better application. does come under the particular rule, or under the reason of the rule, 

Mr. HEPBURN. .I have offered this amendment in perfect good the employment of officers already under the pay of the Government 

faith. It applies as well to the bill if attached to the paragraph which is on its face a retrenchment. This amendment provides that none of 

has just been read as if attached to any other. With reference to the the money shall be paid to ch;l engineers, bnt that Army officers who 

point of order, I would like to hear what it is. are already under tbe pay of the Government s_hall be detailed to do 

Mr. REAGAN. The point of order is that the amendment changes that work. ·existing law and does not retrench expenditures. The law is now that 1\fr. LONG. I under;;tand the question to be whether this amendthis work is to be done under the direction of the ·war Department. mentis germane. The amendment is in the form of a proviso, and 

The gentleman from Iowa proposes to change that and adopt another that provi5o by its Yery terms. applies to the 'whole·bill and not to any 

rule which does not reduce expenditure. part of it. The proviso is germane to the bill. The mere place in the 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair could not on account of the confusion bill where that provi o shall come in i'3 of no consequence. It applies 

in the committee hear di'3tinctly the point of order that ha been to each clause and to the whole bill . . raised. · Mr. STO~'E- l\Ir. Chairman, I submit that in the present posture 

Mr. REAGAN. I w~ll restate it. The amendment changes exi ting of the case this amendment js .not in order, because it has no relation 

law and does not reduce expenditures. The ex_isting laWTequire~ these to tbe preei e subject now under consideration: I think that while 

works to be done under the direction of the Secretary of War. This this is not a general appropriation bill, it is in "the nature of a general 

adopts a new and different rule, not existing in the law now, ·and it appropriation bill, and in Committee of the Whole is to be dealt with 

does not retrench expenditure. as an appropriation hi 11 ~o far a it is found necessary or--practicable to 

lli .. HEPBURN. I have been utterly unable to he..'l.r ~hat was the observe the rule which requiTes the committee, in dealing with a genpoint of order. eralsubject-matiei·, to bkeitJup by sections . . ..T.hepointi wish to make 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will a k the gentleman from Ken- is ibis, ·that while the general subject now under consideration is the 

tucky [Mr. WILLIS] to state his point of order. . rh-er and · harbor bill, by t he practice and usage of the House we deal 

.?Ylr. 'VILLIS. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. REAGAN] has made with snch.a hill sec.tion by section, and therefore, when-we· are dealing 

the point. · with the-particular clause now under consideration;the question to be 

· Mr: REAGAN. I ask the gentleman from Kentucky [Mi·. WILLI.] considered is -whether the amen-dment proposed is germane to that ·parto state it. The Chair can not hear me. ticula!'partofthc bill. Now the question raised by thegentlema.nft·om 

•· The CHAIRMAN. TheChairheard the gentleman from Te~a [Ur. Iowa [Mt~. HEPBURX] is.a. question of administration, whicllirelatesto 

REAGAN], bnt thought the gentleman was repeating a point of order the general character 'of the bill, apd, as has been said, it comes in ap- · 

made by the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS]. propriately in the latter part of the bill-where matters of administration 

. ·Mr. REAGAN. I was not aware the point of order had be o ma!le are considered .and.provided for; bnt to attempt to. raise a-question of 

by the gentleman from Kentucky; -otherwiseiwoul(lnotha>e made it. mhninistration·and 11ut it into -the- bill at this point is only t& cause 

· Mr. HEPBURN. I ha•e been unable to hear what point -of order confusion in onr"lllethod of transacting business. 

has been raised on this amendment. Thcrefore,·in·my judgment, if we are to observe the rnleortheusage 

The CHAIRMAN. So far as the Chair is informed the point of order of the House, which requires us in dealing with bills of.ihis.nature-I 

raised is that this ill new legisl..'l.tion and does not on its face decrease do not claim tlr.lt this is a general appropriatio~ bill-to deal with them 

expenditure. · . by sections. I think we shall .find. it extremely inconvenient if we unMr. HEP.BUR.N. 1 gnggest to the Chair tha.t this is not a general dertake to insert in this partof"the bill a matter wltich has no relation 

appropriation bill, and that point of order can not be raised in con- to the pre<:i'3c question now under consideration. ·I call attention to 

nection with it. I desil·e to suggest, secondly, that.while the amend- the seventh clause of Rule· XVI, on page 196 of the Manual, which 

ment may not specifically upon its face curtail expenditures, yet it provides that when a motion or proposition is under consideration, no 

must be plain to gentlemen that it must have that effect. . subject different from the one under. consideration shall be admitted 

M:r. WILLIS. I do not desire to occupy the time of the committee under color of an amendm&nt, and I submit that under the kue confurther 'than to state what is in my judgment the foundation.of this strnction of that rule we are now dealing with a proposition which is 

rule which does not allow new legislation on appropriation bills. not the entire bill, and that this amendment has no relation to the 

?1-Ir. HISCOCK. Does the gentleman from Kentucky claim that this paragraph- under consideration, and ~here fore is not germane. 

is a general appropriation bill covered by the twenty-first rule? . Mr. HEPBURN. M:r. Chairman, the point of order raised by the 

.Mr. WILLIS. I claim it is a. general appropriation bill to the ex- gentleman from Massachusetts [l\Ir. STONE] seems to me to involve 

tent of excluding new legislation changing existing law and which is simply a matter of literary taste, as to where this amendment should 

not in the line of economy. · · come in. I submit that if it cannot be attached to the paragraph now 

Mr. SP~INGER. I make the fuTther point of order that the amend- under consideration, there is no portion of the bill to which it can be 

merit is not germane to this clause of the bill. . attached, according to the gentleman's argument, because the paraMr. WILLIS. We give these approptiation bills the right of way, graphs in .the bill all apply to distinct matters, and this amendment 

and, as they have the right of way, we hamper their jurisdiction; and proposes that this principle shall apply to all the paragraphs-that it 

this being one of the appropriation bills having the right of way, I take shall be general in its operation. 

it it comes within the rule prohibiting new legislation unless in the line The CHAIRMAN. The clause of Rule XVI, cited by the gentleman 

of economy; and moreover the amendment is not germane to this part from Massachusetts (.1\fr. STONE], reads as follows: 

of the bill. 1 And no notice or proposition on a subject different· from that undet'·cons!derMr. HEPBURN. Allow me to call the attention of the Chair to the a.tion shall be admitted under color of a~endment. 

r1~ng found on page 381 of th,e Digest, where, under the caption of The Chair thinks that the subject under comidera.tion is the improve-

" River and harbor bill," I find this: ment of rivers and harbors, and that this amendment is not upon a difNot one of the general appropriation bill . See debate and decision of Chair- ferent imbject, because it .is not passing to a dift'erent subject for the man CARLISLE. committee to undertake to prescribe how the money appropriated in 

Mr. BOUTELLE. On this very point now raised. this bill for such improvements shall be expended. The point of order 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has no difficulty on that proposition. is therefore overruled. . 

Thisisnotageneral appropriation bill; buttheChairwill hear thegen- ~lr. HEPBURN. 1\Ir. Cbairmari, I was a.bout to saJ when intertleman from Iowa [Ur. HEPBli"R~] as to the amendment being germane rnpted by this point of order that there is a popular belief in this 

to the· bill under consideration. 'l~e point as made by the gentleman country that these works of improvement are carried on by the engineer 
1274 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

officers of the Army, and that to that extent at least-the matter·of 

engineering-there was no additional expense imposed upon the Treasury. I desire to suggest to the committee that that. is a serious mistake. A report recently made oo this _House by the Secretary of· War 

develops the fact that two ·hundred and two civil engineers are now employed upon the various river and harbor improvements, and that a monthly expenditure in excess of $35,000 is iitcurred in their payment. 

Four hundred thousand dollars is paid annually by this Government 

to engineers outside of the Army of the United States. We have at 

this time nearly 1,500 edu'cated engineers of the class named in this 

amendment. These gentlemen have all received the same education 

that is received by those who are graduated with such rank as entitles 

them to appointment in the engineers. 

There is no difference in the character of the instruction received by 

West Point graduates, and it is therefore reasonable to suppose that 

those graduates of that institution who are not in the Engineer Corps 

have such capacity as is needed for carrying on these wor_ks. -.There are 1,500 gentlemen from whom these details might be made. It is com- plained on every: occasion when we are discussing ._an Army appropria--

tion bill that the Armyofthe United States is top-heavy; that it has 

entirely too many officers_ It is a fact known to at least a hundred gentlemen no:w :present that three officers are not needed in time of peace 

for the command of a single company. Very many of these officers are loitering away their time at fmntier posts, where they are absolutely 

doing nothing; and by a proper detail they might be placed in such a situation that they would be earning their mon~hly pay and saving the 

Government $400,000 a year. I am entirely unwilling to· believe that 

these gentlemen have not -the capacity for this work, or that they are not equal to other gentlemen who are now taken from civil life and 

employed upon these public improvements. It often happens that a county eDooineer or a county surveyor is employed upon these works, 

and· often it is a mere matter of favoritism as to who shall-receive the 

large stipends that are paid. 

I believe it would be a wise procedure to put the e officers to work,, 

thus saving this large amount of money and securing this better character of educatedtalenttocariy,on with increased efficiency these various 

needed improvements. · . Mr. BRECK.lNRIDGE. Mr. Chairman, I want to call attention to one or two very imJ)ortant features in this amendment. It proposes to 

take two hundred officers out of the line of the Army, detaching them 

from theirregimentsandfrom theirpresentduty, an~ put them upon the 

engineering works of the Government. The gentleman who submits 

this amendment pr~nts no information from th·e Secretary of War 

that. the public service can stand such a detail. This of itself is a very 

weigqtymatterto be considered. Weareatpresentemployingin round 

numbers one hundred military engineers upon our civil works and two 

hundred civil engineers upon the sa~e works. Our works are in charge 

of the military engineers, who employ the civil engineers. . But the realfoundation propositiOJ?.Ofthegentleman's amendment is 

to keep civil works entirely in the charge of mili.tmy engineers. Now, 

the growth and drift of enlightened thought in this country is in the 

other direction. ·Engineering science is so extensive, is so great in all 

the elements of greatness, that those countries which have achieved 

em.iiience in the specialties of that science llave found· that men must 

de-vote themselves to the special features of it. I have a letter, which 

is only one.ofmany from learned men upon thissubject, from the president of one of the most eminent uni ve.rsities in this country, who states 

that he has examined the working of this system in every European 

nation and with unusual facilities for getting at the facts; and that none of those countries permit their military engineers to have anything to 

do with-their civil works, nor do they permit their civil engineers to run their military· works. They do not go upon the "jack-of-all-tradesand-good-at-none" plan. They compel their military engineers to con- fine themselves to that engineering which has reference to the art of war, 

and their civil engin-eers to confine themselves to the civil engineering 

features of that vast and intricate science. 'l'his is only in accordance 

with t.he sound doctrine of a division of ·labor as laid down by Adam 

Smith, as due to the ''utility'' of Bacon, and as can not be successfully 

controverted by any man. What would be thought of us, if in time of war we should put all our great military operations ·under the charge of civil engineers? 

What ought to bethought of ns, if in any time of peace we put all our civil operations under the charge of military engineers as we do now? 

It is foolish to the last degree, as reaiOn and . results loudly testify. 

Each, in subordination, can supplement the other as occasion may re- quire; but we should regard economy and the public weal, and stick 

to reason. 

There are points of analogy between the two prof~ions; but there 

are great diffet:ences between them, and in none of our great institutions where civil engineering is taught, one branch being enough to 

constitute the life-work of even a great man, do they ever pretend to 

trench upon the great science of military engineering. It seems to me that our military engineers are makirig a grave mistake. They ought 

to resent, as mr as is practicable and proper, being employed out of the 

strict line of their profession. We have had twenty years of peace. 

Let us have twenty years more. Let us work our military engineers 

to death on civil works. · Let us get into war with a foreign country. 

What kind of men have we then? How will they contend with the 

great military engineers of foreign countries? Our old men are dead. 

Our new ones are· untrained in war. How much blood and treasure is 

needed to fit them for du~? We need them now and soon will employ 

them on our coast ·defenses, and we have not enough for needed work. 

We need to work them in this, and to send them abroad for study. 

I have stated what is the drift of enlightened opinion in this matter. 

There is now before the Committee on Rivers and Harbors a bill, introduced by me, which I have not _asked the committee to t:,J.ke action 

upon this session, but which I e~pect to perfect and to ask them to 

take action upon next session-a bill to create a river and harbor bureau, with the view of ultimately putting this whole business upon 

the basis that it occupies to-day in every enlightened country except ours. . · [Here the hammer fell.] 

:Mr. BLANCHARD obtained the floor and said: I yield my time to 

th_e gentleman from Arkansas [Mr. BRECKINRIDGE]. 

Mr. 'BRECKINRIDGE. I thank my friend for his kindness. We. put these works in the hands of men not trained to this division of the 

science. What is the result? We find works at all the great harbors 

along the coast in such a wretched state of dilapidation and disorder 

that our committee by a unanimous vote incorporated in this bill a measure which I introduced for the appointment of a United States 

harbor board to take these harbors all under consideration. 

Oti.r committee unanimously adopted a provision under which this. 

board is to embrace four ci vii engineers, only two Army engineers and one member to be detailed, for his technical knowledge, fro~ the Coast 

and Geodetic Survey. I argued this nearly a whole day and a half before my committee. We went all over the books. ·We did more than 

I can cite here. At the very incepti<:m of the great ma:t:ine worJcs of 

America, some ten years ago, the gentlemen in charge of those works, 

instead of· sitting like Paul at the feet of Gamaliel to learn of those 

who had made a special study of this business, got into an unfortunate 

wrangle-our military engineers upon the one hand, and the civil and 

hydraulic engineers and the balance of mankind and the laws of Almighty God upon the ot.her hand. The result has never been shrouded 

in a particle ef doubt. 

There is not on earlh, with all the magnificent sea-works that exist, some of them over a eentury old, a single one embracing any one of the 

essential features of these submerged fascine works i.n salt water, where 

there is no mud or silt-bearing stream. There is nothing to counte- nance such a system. I have seen it mentioned but once in the annals 

of high foreign authority, and then with ridicule. Having gone into 

this line of experiments, ·they h~ve brought the work on the Mississippi 

River to-day to a point where, as I can show by turning tQ their reports 

and as I briefly outlined in my remarks the other day, and as I will show 

in my printed remarks, a promised, by clear citations of the text, they 

propose and practice a plan of w~rk which is a complete and radical 

abandonment of the original plan for improving that great river, and 

their wretched experiments are attended only with failure. They forced an eminent ci vii engineer off the <?Ommission; and they have now a plan 

of operations sketched out to spend, a.s stated by the gentleman from 

:Maine [Mr. REED], $150,000,000. Tbe calculation is a very plain one; 

and there is not in any of their work aguaranteethatitwilllasttwelv~ 

months. 

This incubus of untrained engineers--

.Air. REED, of Maine. I am glad to hear the gentleman say that. 

I hope his ~tateineuh will receive the attention of the Hou e. Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Your statement is correet. 

A MEXBER • • In what? • Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. · I will show you in what. They llave put 

the cart before the horse and brought it to a point where they propose 

to carry on a systematic course of revetment to prevent caving, instead 

of contracting, as a condition precedent, the shoal places in order to 

bring about uniformity fJf width, uniformity of depth, uniformity of 

velocity, thereby minimizing ex~ve depth and excessive velocity, the causes of the caving. . And their calculations are, in round numbers, 

that the system will cost $150,000 a mile, and there are n~rly a thousand miles.of the :Mississippi River in this condition, and it has two 

sides to it, and one side is always caving in where the other is forming a bar; you have, I say, a thousand miles at $150,000 a mile, making an aggregate of $150,000,000; and yet they can not point us to any experiment in this' departure from the original plan and from reason showing 

that it will stand twelve months after a single rise. Therefore i have agreed with those who hav-e urged that this incubus 

of mediocrity of untrained engineering talent in this line be taken off 

that· riv.er, or in some way subordinated, and it he put back to the 

original plan adopted by Congress which Captain Eads formulated, 

and which; clear in reason and sustained in practice, has never failed; 

That is in strict accordance with the safe, ascertained laws of hydraulics 

throughout the world, as indorsed by the most eminent hydraulic en- gineers, as both in harmony with science and common sense. In no place where it has been carried on has it been a failure, while in no locality where these experiments have been carried on have they been a success. They have brought that grand river and its improvements 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD~HOUSE. 1275 

to the-verge of collapse. We have gotrothat pointa.twhichthissehool 

of untrained men in this. specialty, who, in this and other important 

works, have abandoned. the beaten track in ~his regard, have shown 

that in their wretched quarrels pique has been stronger than rea.so:n, 

and they-have brought the public interest int8this.direfulstateofsuffering. . · Galveston Harbor is an instance of those harbors improved by that 

untrained engineering skill of a like character with this so-called improvement of the .Mississippi River, involving. the same conspicuous 

fundamental error, and -therefore I say the whole drift of American 

thought, interest, and experienee is in-just the reverse direction to that 

indicated by the gentleman's amendment. . And, Mr.• Chairman, I trust his amendment will not be adopted, but 

that we will go on and incorporate sound principles in this bill as far as we seek to incorporate them now, leaving m()re for the future. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman's time has expired. 

Mr. ROGERS, of Arkansas. I will take the floor and yield my tim~ 

to my colleague. • . Mr. HEPBURN. Will the gentleman from Arkansas answer a question? . • · Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HEPBURN. When did this change of policy and plan on the 

part of the Mississippi Ri\'er Commission take place? 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. It took place and is expressed in the first 

report they made after Eads was forced off the commi~on. I will 

take pleasure in showing mv friend the exact text of that plain and 

emphatic determination ofumt Mis$ssippi River Commission, as I have 

gone over the whole matter quite recently. It took place in the first 

report they made after Captain Eads was forced off the commission. 

Mr. HISCOCK. When was Eads forced off the commission? 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. He was forced off very soon after that sec- ond report. 

Mr. HEPBURN. Prior to your argument on this bill last year? 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. It was, and· I did not understand it as well 

when I made my argument la t year as I hope I do now, or l would not· have indorsed this commission with the confidence I then felt in them. 

I look upon that Ti~er as a national question. The people.of this 

country have got to a point where commerce demands outlets, and all 

these bars and aJl these .barriex:s which clog up the energy and 'enterprise of our country have got to be removed, and to remove them we may well expect to make expenditures commensurate with the. 

difficulties involved as other nations have been forced to do under like 

circumstances. And I need only call attention to the fact that France 

the first year after the Franco-Prussian war appropriated $1.000,000,- ooo ·on works of this kind, $100,000,000 to b'e spent each year for ten 

years. While we can not go to that great length _at once, yet we need 

not hope to overcome the great natural barriers at much less cost than 

other .nations have to pay under similar circumstances. · We have 

reached the time for a turn, and the battle is joined right here, now. And, sir, the people of this country do not begrudge expenditures of 

this kind which bless twice. They bless ~osewho give as well as those 

who receive. They make goods cheaper to the buyer and higher to the 

seller. All that the people of this country want is the inaugmation of a plan in which they have confidence. But in order to give confidence 

you must put men at the head of these works of acknowledged success and ability; and then, and only then, will this conn try prove· true to 

its great duty a:nd destiny. And I trust;" sir, in the pro ecution of 

this work that no backward step will be taken, as is proposed here, so much at variance with what we believe to be the only available plan 

commensurate with the needs of the countrY, but that we will proceed 

in the plain, beaten track of modern progress. [Applause.] 

Mr. REED, of Maine. :Mr. Chairman, I am glad to listen to theremarks of the gentleman from Arkansas. I a.m. glad to have him re-en- force the statement I made to this House, that an ultimate expenditure 

of.$150,000,000 is proposed for the Mississippi River, and that we can not get out of that work inside of that amopnt--

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. The gentleman misunderstands me; I did 

not say thatt. • · 

Mr. REED, ·or Maine. Under this plan. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I say under the experimental plan. 

Mr. REED, of :Maine. Under the experimental plan? . Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. But Captain Eads states that under a. proper 

system of conducting the work the wbole thing should. be ~one for 

between $25,000,000 and $501000,000, and nearer $25,000,000 than 

$50,000,000. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. Yes·; Captain.Eads makes that statement, :md~-

li1r. BRECKINRIDGE. And we could not have better authority. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. All of these other gentlemen have been making similar statements, and that is just what I complain of. Last year 

I took a stand against the Mississippi River appropriation, and I did it 

upon an indication that I saw here in the House. A proposition was 

made, a sensible business preposition, that we should ·content ourselves with the prosecution of the work on the two reaches·ofthe river the~ under process of construction, to see if the plan contemplated in 

that work was to be a success. If it was a success, then we conld go 

on;. if it was not a success, we could suspend operations. 

But that business proposition was rejected by an overwhelming crowd 

of votes. That satisfied me that there were a. great many gentlemen 

who were more interested in the expenditure of money than they were in the navigation of the Mississippi River. Now the gentleman from 

A rkansa.s comes before the Honse and re-enforceB by facta the suspicion 

which the conduct of these geritlemen at t}J.at time engendered in the 

minds of thinking men. It is well, therefore, for us to have fastened on our minds the tremendous fad that there is a proposed expenditure 

of$150,000,000 involved~ this question. · . Nor is it any infom1ation to me to be told that Captain Eads or Captain Anybod:yelse says that he can do it for $25,000,000; for the distinguished men whom we have found out, whom even members of the 

committee have found out, announced that they could do it· for $33,-

000,000; and the ·two reaches which have been .operated upon originally had an appropriation of $2,670,000, and all of these famous gentlemen told us that that was amply sufficient for all the purposes, on which assurance we were beguiled into this tremendous expenditure. 

And now one of these commissioners ·says, and he is the only one who 

has the manliness to say anything about i ~ that it is ascertained to-day 

that tb~e improvements will cost three times the amount they estimated it would cost, and may not last twelve months, as my friend 

from "Massachusetts suggests. But, · sir, the three times a.s much is by no means a certainty. 

No JD.an knows what it may cost eventually. No man who has been 

up and down that ri.\er will doubt the fact that a work of this cha.raeter is like undertaking to chain a tiger with a bullrnsh. 

I intend when we come to.this paragraph referring to the Mississippi 

River in this bill to make some 1·emarks about it. My object now is 

to impress upon the House the great fundamental fact admitted and 

asseverated by the gentleman from Arkansas, that $150,000,000 wlll not see the end of this unjustifia.bleexpenditure. 

:\Ir. HISCOCK. l\lr. Chairman, I confess to a great dP..al of pleasure 

in hearing the acknowledgment made bythegentlemanfromArkansas as to the probability of the ultimate cot of this work; and I ask him 

to bring in here the. endence that Captain Eads has not jndorsed from 

the beginning the very plan now pursued by the Mississippi . River 

Commission. I assert that he bas indorsed it to the country :J.Dd to 

Congre , and that he has neve1· given to the country or. to the Honse 

any other plan. He bas gone out of the commission. They have 

made changes there. Why'? Because 25 per cent. of the money we have appropriated for the improvement of the Mississippi River has 

been expended in repairing th~ work that has been done since·1881. · The experience ofihe last few years has demonstrated that all yon ~re doing is being washed down the river and washed into tpe Gulf.of 

Mexico. Captain Eads discovered it, and we can fairly draw the infer- ence that knowing the fact and recognizing the failure of his plan, he 

voluntarily retired from the commission. 

Now, I insist that we can demonstrate here that he is recognized by 

the Government and the country as having given his indorsement of 

the present plan as it is now being prosecuted·; and I ask the Committee on Rivers and Harbors iftheyhaveinvestigated the question ofthe 

amount of money that has been expended for repairs on works that 

bave been done under this plan within· the last two years? 

Why ha\·e you not informed the House on that subject? I assert 

that of the · ,000,000 which have been appropriated .and expended in . this work nearly $2-,000,000 ·h.-we been expended in repairs on these 

mattresses and thi-; revetment work; 11nd y~t that fact-has been kept 

from the House, and kept from the country. This.co.mmittee, with 

full power to investigate, with full power to ascertain all the facta upon 

this question, have brought in this bill and attempted to change the manner of doing this work, claiming we must call this Captain Eads 

to the helm and that .be has some new plan, some new method that 

will gi\e success to this great cheme of public plunder. 

:No, sir, I say to my friend do not leave this question since you have 

thrown down the gauntlet on that point, do not leave it till you have ·brought in the proof that Captain Eads has. ever advised against this 

cheme and against the plan as prosecuted to-day. 

MESSAGE li'RO:\I TH::J: SEN ATE. 

The committee informally rose; and Mr. BLACKBURN .took the chair 

as Speaker pro tempore. . 

A message from the Senate, by l\Ir. 1\IcCooK, its Secretary, informed 

the House that the Senate had agreed to the report of the conun.j,ttee 

of conference on the biH (H. R. 121) to enable the commissioners of 

the District of Columbia to maintain public order during the' ceremo- nies of the inauguration of the President, :tnd for other purposes. 

RIVER Al-o""D HARBOR APPROPRIATION BILL. 

The Committee of the Whole resumed its session. 

Mr. HERBERT. I shall endeavor, ·Mr. Chairman, to bring this debate back to the question really before the committee. When we get 

to the appropriation for the Mississippi River, gentleman can then discuss that question. I believe, Mr. Chairman, that we ought to adopt 

the principle llJlderlying the amendment of the gentlemen from Iowa 

[Mr. HEPBURN] when we get ready for it; but we have not yet made 

the·necessary preparation. . This Government, in expending so many millions of dollars as are appropriated annually in the river and barber bill, ought to have the 
1276 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD.:.._HOUSE. FEBRUARY . 4, 

benefit of the very best talent and of the service~ of the.. men who have 

received thev.erybest education. The education at WestPoint in en- gineering has been increased very much during·the last twenty years. 

But gentlemen will :find that the education giv,en there in that branch 

is not equal to that received in the sch~ls of arts and mining in the 

New York and Columbia Colleges, or in the special school at Harvard, or in the Ecole Polytechnic of l' rance, or in certain schools in Germany. · . . We will not be prepared to adopt this poliqyofusing only the talent 

and education, the skill and ability of onr Army officers until we have 

improved ·our system of education at West Point. .I believe we ought 

to add another year to the curriculum at that institution, and let it be 

devoted to the science of engineering. ·we have net much use now for our officers except a.s the nucleus of 3;1. army. We might as well extend the time and approprbte the mcmey necessary for educating these 

young men another year, devoting that time especilllly to the science 

of engineering. When we shall ha>e done that and turned out graduates who have had the additional time at West Point, then we will be 

prepared, and not till then, to anopt the principle of the amendment 

of the gentleman from Iowa. 

As it is now; 1\Ir. Chairman, we are simply doing what is done by 

every government in the world-availing ourselves of the very b~ ~lent to do the work. · The Gove:rnment ought not to be limited in its 

choice. In England the officers who conduct the ordnance survey are most of them civilians, eminent men, who haYe pecial qualifications 

from education and experience. I believe that that is the best policy 

to pursue. I believe it i& the best pol icy to pursue here :until we can, as I have said, provide for giving at West Point the very best education on this. subject of ei:tgineering.of which the human mind is capable. . Mr. WILLIS. Before moving that the committee rise I will ask my 

fl"iend from Iowa. [1\ir. HEPBURN] to withdraw his amendment with a view to renewing it ih the morning. 

Mr. O'NEILL, of Missouri. I object. 

The CHAIRl\IAN. The gentleman from Iowa can withdraw his 

amendment and renew it when he please . . 1\fr. HEPBURN. With the understanding that I can renew it in · the morning; I now withdraw my amendment. 

Mr. WILLlS. I move that th~ committee rise. 

Mr. O'NEILL, of Missouri. I a k the gentleman from Kentucky to 

withhold his motion for a moment. 

Mr. WILLIS. I will do so. Mr. O'NEILL, of 1\fissouri. In yesterday' di cuss ion the gentleman 

from Kentucky [1\Ir. WILLIS] made this :~tatement: ' That of the appropriation made last year of $520,000 for that p01iion of the river of 

which Iwastheadvocate, only$135,000 had been expended; and ·that, 

in .otl}er words, Congress had appropriated fa.r more than it could judi-. cionsty expend." These are tb,e exact words in the RECORD. ·. Now, as regards the appropriation of last year, I have-hereacommunication from the f:hief of Engineer.! irr which· he states that all that 

money has been expended but $240,000, and that every dollar of that 

will be expended before the-close of the present fiscal year, ou the 30th 

June next. I desire to insert in the UECORD his statement and also a dispatch from t.he resident engineer at Saint Louis, Major Ernst. . 1\Ir. WILLIS. That is exactly wl1at I aid. There has been appro; 

priated a-much larger sum than has been expended. 

Mr. O'NEILL, Of 1\Iissouri. But will be expended before June 30 

next. 

The following are the communications referred to by 1\Ir. O'NEILL, 

of Missouri: OFFICE OF ';rHE CHIEF' OF ENGTh"F.EBS, 

UNITED STATJ!:S ARMY., 

Washington, D. 0., February 4,188-5. 

SIR: Your telegram of the 2d inst-ant received to-day. !hasten to inform you that the balance of former appropriation for Mississippi River between mouth of Illinois and Cairo unexpended is $247,000, which will all be expended before close of the fiscal year. . For further information please see report of Major Ernst, herewith, pages 1-111, 

1417, &c. Estimate submitted by him for next fiscal year, $1,000,000. This work is now undel' control of t)le Mississippi River Commission. Very respectfully, your obedient servant, · · .JOHN G. P .A.RKE, Colonel of E ngineers, Btl. Maj. Gen. United States Anny. Hon . .JorrN J. O'NEILL, House of }Upruentativu, Washington, D. 0. 

To Hon. JoHN J. O'NEILL, S AINT LoUIS, Mo., Feb ruary 4,1884. 

House of .Repruentativu, Washington, D. 0. : 

Amount now available, about $247,000, will a.H be expended by end of fiscal yeru·; Sl,OOO,OOO can be advantageously expended next year. The works st-ood the heavy break-up of ice a month ago without damage. 

ERNST, Engineer. 

1\:ir. WILLIS. 1\:Ir. Chairman, I now renew ~y motion that the 

committee rise. . 

The motion was agreed to. 

The rommittee according1y rose; and Mr. BLACKBURN having re- sumed the chair as Speaker p1·o tempore, 1\lr. HAl\OIO~D reported that 

the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union had; ac- cording to order, had under consideration the bill (H. R. 8130) making 

appropriations for the construction, repair, and preservation of certain · 

public works on rivers and harbors, and for other purposes, and had come to no resolution thereon. · 

EXECUTIVE COUl\£UNICATIONS. 

The SPEAKER pro /Import;: The Chair asks the consent of the 

House to submit certain executive communications. 

There was no objection. . . 

URVEY YEAR GUTTEXBURG,_ IOWA. 

The SPEAKER pro te1npore laid before the House a letter from the • Secretary of War, transmi ttil1g a report of the. Chief of Engineers of a survey of th~ 1tfississippi River near Guttenburg, Iowa; which was referred to the Committee on Rivers and Harbox , and ordered to be 

printed. · • 

INDIAN DEPREJ?ATIO~ CLAIMS. 

· Tqe SPEAKER pro tempore laid before the House a letter from the 

Secretary of the Interior, transmitti.ng a supplementalt·eport ~f Indian 

depredation claims reported to the Interior Department since January 

13, 1885; which was ref e .. ed to the Committee on Indian· ~airs, and 

ordered.to be printed. 

PAWCATUCK RIVER, RHODE ISLAND. 

The PEAKER pro tempore laid before the House a letwr f1·om the 

Secretary of War, transmitting a report from. the Chief of Engineers of a surveyofPawcatuck River, Rhode Island; which was referred to the 

Committee on RiYcrs and Harbors, and ordered to be printed. 

ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

Ur. GLASCOCK. from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported 

that the com mitt~ hafl examined and found truly enrolled bills of the 

following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: . A bill {S. 2278} correcting the military record .of Wickliffe Cooper, 

deceased, late major eventh Cavalry and brevet colonel United States 

.Army; 

A bill (S. 1242} to reimburse Elizabeth Comstock for customs dues 

pam by her on articles donated for the relief of colored emigrants; 

A bill (S. ·468} granting an increase of pension to Mrs. Mary K. 1 • 

Eaton; and . 

· A bill (S. 1111 } granting an increase of pension to Sally r.o(lman, 

wido\y·of General I. aac P. Rodman. 

LEAVE OF ABSENCE.' 

By unanimous con ent, leave of absence was granted as follows: 

To 1\Ir. SKLINER, of North Carolina, for one day. 

:Mr. BENNEIT was excused from attendance on the evening ession, on account of sickness. 

:M:r. HERBERT was excused from attendance on the e>ening session, on account•. of sickness in his fami1y. 

'oRDER OF BU. !NESS. 

1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky . . I move that the House do 11ow adjom·n. 

':M:r. WILLIS. 1\'Ir. Speaker, I call· attention to the order of the 

House for a. recess until 8 o'clock this evening. ·. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has that order in mind, but 

ne'i'erthelcs the motion of the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. '\yHITE] is in order. · 

Mr. WILLIS. But that motion will not a:fl:"ect the recess, because 

the motion to take a recess wa8 agreed to and the motion to reconsidet was lmd on the tab1e. · · 

The SPEAKEU pro tempore. The Chair understands that, ·but, iu 

the judgment of the Chair, the motion of ·the g.entlem:m from Kentucky 

[Mr. WHITE] is in order under the.rule. Several MEMBERS. Regular order. 

The SPEAKER pro temp01·e. The regular order is called for, and, 

the hour of 5 o'clock having arrived, the regular order is the execution 

of the order of the House to take a recess until 8 o'clock this e\"ening. 

The House therefore stands in recessuntil8 o'clockthlsevening, when 

the gentleman from Tennessee [~ir. McMILLIN] will preside. 

• EVENING SESSION. 

The House reassembled at 8 p. m., 1\fr. McMILLIN in the chair as 

Speaker pro tempore. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

:M:r. WILLIS. I move that the House resolve itself into the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. No objection being made, the niotion 

is agreed to. • 1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentuckj. I call for telle:rS. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thinks the gentleman i too 

late with his demand, but the Chair is not disposed to cut him off. 

1\fr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I made it as quickly as I could. 

The SPEAKER.pro tempore. The Chair is not disposed to take advantage of the gentlemarr's delay. Does the gentleman [Mr. WHITE, 

of Kentucky] now caU for tellers? 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I do. 

The question was taken, and no one rose to second the demand for 

tellers. · 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· HOUSE. .1277 

The SPEA~ER p1·o tempore. No · one · having risen, tellers ar~ re- fused. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. Mr. Speaker, I make the point of order 

that no quorq.m has voted. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. That fact has not been ascertained. 

Tellers are refused. The House has resolved to go into the Committee of 

the Whole on the state of the Union, and the gentleman from Georgia 

[Mr. HAMMOND] will take the chair. · The House accordingly resolved itself into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union (Ur. HAM!IO:ND in the chair) and resumed 

the consideration of the bill (H. R. 8130) making appropriations for the 

construction, repair, and Neservation of certain public works on rivers 

and harbors, and for other purposes. . The CHAIRMAN. -The House is now in Committee of the Whole 

House on the state of the Union for the further consideration of the ·river ~d harbor appropriation bill. The Clerk will read the next paragraph of the bill. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

liD proving harbor at Bw·lington, Vt.: Continuing impro>ement, $20,000. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. 1\Ir. Cbairm, I move to amend by 

making that appropriation $21,000. As I have not the estimates of 

the Chief of Engineers at hand, I desire to call attention to the anom- alous position that we are in here to-night, in Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, to eonsider a river and harbqr bill carrying over $12,000,000, and yet not one-quarter of the members of this House 

present, not one-half of a quorum present, and by a gag we are forced 

into this committee. Let the country take notice of that fact. We are here; too, not to discuss this bill, but to· discuss such parts of the 

bill as the Committee on Rivers an_d Harbors desire, for be it remem- ' bered that it was thechairmanofthe committee .who made the motion 

that we should discuss no item of appropriation here to-night ·that ex- ceeds $50,000, We are here todiSC0$8 the sinall items in this bill, _the 

trout streams, the catfish streams, and the ponds. · 

Now, I desire to call attention to the f~t th_at in the Forty-se\'enth 

Congress a bill was passed, which has be~ condemned by a portion of 

the people, which was uniiormly condemned by the metropolitan press 

controlled by the railroad interests of j:.he country, and which was further condemned by the veto message of the President, which inured to 

the benefit of the railroad magnates ·who do no~ waut water transportation in competiti{)n with the rail way lines. I desire_ to call attention to the fact that in that biH there was appropriated for the Big 

Hatchie; for the Great Pee Dee,. for the Clinch in Tennessee, for the Big 

Sunflower in Mississippi, for the South. Fork of the Cumberland in 

Kentucky, for the Tradewater' in Kentucky, for the Big Tombigbee, 

together with the ·Niagara-for all these there were appropriated only $26,QOO. . . . 

Bu.t in your Democratic bill of last session you appropriated for the same items $49,500-nearly double what was carried by the bill of·the 

Forty-seventh Congress. You may apply the same comparison to this 

bilJ, and you will find that·it is with equal justice condemned. 

In the bill of 1882 there were thirty-two 1·ivers for whic"h $5,000 ea.ch was appropriated; one for :which 4,500 was appropriated; seven with an appropriation of $4,000 each; two, $3,500 each; 'seven.teen, $!,000 

each; one, $2,500; seven, $2,000 each; four, $1,500 each; four, $1,000. 

Your Democratic bill of last session a·ppropriated for twenty-eight rivers 

$5,000each; three, $4,000each; t-wo, $3,500each; sixteen, $3,~each; 

seven, $2,500 each; nine, $2,000 each; one, $1,500; and one, $1,000. 

In the Forty-seventh Congress the aggregate was $339,000 for these 

small streams; and at the first session of the Forty-eighth Congress it was $257,000. The difference in respect to these streams is not very large. 

Now we are here to-night to discuss that pa1·t of this bill which it seems is intended to carry the Galveston appropriation, to carry the 

Mississippi River with ease, to carry the Hennepin Canal, and to carry 

the other enormous appropriations in this bill. I say we ought to have ~full committee. We ought to diScuss this thing with the light of 

day, with three hundred and twenty-f!.ve members present, not with an attendance of forty members as we have to-night. And, sir, when 

the proper time comes I shall call for a quorum; and if yom side does 

not produce it here, you will not make any progress to-night. 

1\lr. WILLIS. It is very eviden~ that there is nQt a quorum in the 

Hall to·night; but the House has been in session only a few minutes. 

It is well known to members tl;lat to-day, for the purpose of expediting 

the public business, this arrangement for an evening session was made, so that all who desired to oppose any item in this bill could have an opportunity to be preseat. The question now simply remains whether we shall call here a sufficient number of members to make a quorum, or whether those items which are nqt in dispute-items whiclihave been 

carried in every river and harbor bill for the last ten years, j.tems which 

certainly were in the last bill and the one-prior to that-can be disposed 

of to-night, thus making way for those matters which are in dispute and 

which can only be determined upon a full.voteofthe Committee of the 

Whole. · · 

The Committee ori Rivers and Harbors in bringing in this bill stated 

frankly to the House and to the country that they had no hope of re- porting a measure which would escape criticism. As chairman of that 

committee I felt it to be my duty in the brief opening statement which 

I made to call attention to four or five items-the Hennepin Canal, if 

you p1~e, the Galveston Harbor, the Sandy Bay appropriation, and 

the improvement of tlie Mississippi River-which would excite debate. 

Those matters can be discussed and settled when there is -a full House. 

We are now methereas·business men and Representatives of the people, not desiring to waste public tiJ,De, but disposed I trust to proceed 

with this bill and get·rid of that portion upon which we are all agreed. 

I appeal to my colleague as a Representative on this floor to let us go on with these matters upon which we.can agree; and if we come to any 

matter really in dispute, it can be pa-ssed over. In the interest of public business ~d with a view to the discharge of our representative 

duty, I ask him and I ask other gentlemen to let us go on in this way, 

confident that those objects which all of us have in view will in the 

end be best secured. · 

!Yfl:. WHITE, of Kentucky. Do I understand that this amendment 

is still open to debate? . The C.HAIRMAN. Debate on the pending amendment is exhausted . .Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I thought my colleague [Mr. WILLIS] was discussing the amendment. · The CHAIRMAN. He opposed it. · . 

:Mr. WHITE, of-Kentucky. I rise to oppose my colleague. Mr. 

Chairman, I desire to call attention-- · 

Mr. BROWNE, of Indiana. I rise to a point of order. Is it in order 

for the gentleman f1·om Kentucky to discuss this question in the ab- sence of a quorum? · 

The CHAIRMAN. It has not appeared to the Chair that there is no quorum pre ent. 

Ur. BROWNE, of Indiana. · If that point is to be raised, I hope it 

will be raised an(l settled before the gentleman from Kentucky proceeds further 'vith this discussion. 

Ur. :wHITE, of Kentu.cky. Very well; I am willing if the Committee of the Whole is ready to vote on the proposition. 

The CHAIRUAN. The Chair understood the gentleman from K~ntncky to make another motion to strike out. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I do not withdraw my motion· to increase this appropriation $1,000. . The CHAIRMAN. Debate on that is exhausted. · Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. . Then I call for the question. 

The'CHAIRMAN. Tbequestionisontheamendmentof Mr. WHITE, 

of Kentucky. · 

The committee divided; and there were-ayes 11, noes 64. · M:r. ''rHITE, .of Kentucky. No quc,rum has voted. Let us have· a call of the House if we are going to make appropriations. 

The· CHAIRl\IAN. The Chair appoints as. tellers 1\Ir. WHITE of 

Kentucky and 1\Ir. BLANCHARD. · The committee again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 11, noes 97. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. No quo.i·nm. 

The CHAIRMAN. Under the rule, the roll will be called. 

The roll was called; and the following members failed to·answer to 

their names: . · · 

Adams, G. E. .Adams,.J . .J. Aiken, 

Anderson, 

Arnot, 

Atkinson, 

Ballentine, 

Barbour. 

Barksdale, 

Bro·r, Beach, 

Belmont, 

Bennett, 

Bingham, 

Bisbee, 

Blackburn, 

Bland, 

Boutelle, 

Bowen, 

Boyle, 

Brainerd, 

Bratton, 

Brei tung, 

Brewer,.J.ll. 

Brumm, 

Buckner, 

Burnes, 

Cabell, 

Caldwe"ll, 

Campbell, Felix Campbell,J.M. 

Cassidy, 

Chalmers, 

Clardy, 

Clay, 

Cobb, 

Collins, 

Converse, 

Cook, 

Covington, 

Cox, W.R. Craig, 

Culbertson, ,V, ,V, 

Curtin, 

Cut.cheon, 

Dargan, 

Deuster, 

·Dingley, 

Dockery, 

Dorsheimer, 

Dowd, 

Dunn, 

Eaton. 

Eldredge, 

EJlio!.t, 

Ellis, 

Ellwood, 

Erwentrout, 

Evaus, 

Everhart, 

Fiedler, 

Findlay, 

Finerty, 

Forney, 

Funston, 

Garrison, Geddes, George, 

Glascock, 

Goff, 

Graves, 

Green , H:mback, 

Hancock, 

Hardeman, 

Harmer, 

Hat.ch, H.H. · Hatch, ,V. H. Henderson, D. B. Henley, 

Herbert, 

Hitt, 

Hoblitzell, 

Holmes, 

Holton, 

Hooper, 

Hopkins, 

Houk, 

Howey, 

Hutchins, 

.Jones, B. W. Jones,J.K. 

Jones,J.T. 

Jordan, 

Keifer, 

Kelley, 

"Kellogg, 

J:.Ucey, 

J..~aird, 

· Lamb, 

Law1·ence, 

LeFevre, 

Lovering, 

LowTy, 

Lyman, 

1\IcCoid, 

McComas, 

l\Iillm·d, 

Miller, J. F. :Miller,S,H. 

Milliken, 

Mills, 

:Mitchell, 

1\Ioney, 

:Morgan, 

1\Io.-rill, 

Morrison, 

Morse, 

MouHon, 

Muldrow, 

~fuller, 

~Iurray, 

1\-IutchJer, 

Nicholls, 

Oates, 

Paige, 

Patton, 

Payson, 

Peel, 

Perkins, 

Peters, 

Pettibone, 

Phelps, 

Poland, 

Post, 

Ranki.n, Ranney, 

Ray,G.\V. 

Ray,Ossian 

Rice, . Robertson, 

Robinson, J. S. 

R.obinson, W, E. 

Rockwell, 

Ryan, 

Seney, 

Shaw, 

Singleton, 

Skinner, c. R. Skinner, T. G. Smith, A. Herr Smith,H.Y. 

Spriggs, 

Steele, 

Stewart,.J. W. Struble, 

Sumne~. C. A. Sumner, D. H. Talbott, 

'.ra.ylor, E. B. Thomas, 

Thompson, 

Throckmorton, 

Townshend, 

Tucker, 

Turner, Oscar Valentine, 

Van Alstyne, Vance, 

VanEaton, 

Wadsworth, 

Wakefield, 

Ward, 

Warner, Richard Washburn, 

Wemple, 

White,l.\Iilo 

Whiting, 

Wilkins, 

Williams, 

Winans, E. B. Winans, John Woodward, 

Worthington, 

York, 

Young. 
1278 CONGRESSIONAL REOO~D-~OUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

The committee rose; and the . Speaker pro tempore (Mr. MoMILLIN) 

having resumed the chair, Mr. H.AMMoND reported that the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union having had under 

consideration the bill (H. R. 8130) making appropriations for the con- struction, repair, and preservation of certain public works on rivers and 

harbors, and for other purposes, finding itself without a quorum, had 

caused the. roll to be called, when one hundred and thirty-six members 

had answered to their names, and he was directed to report the names of the absentees to the House, to l;>e spread upon the Jo.urnal. 

Mr. HEWITT, of .Alabama .• I wish to state that my colleagile, Mr. 

HERBERT, is absent on account of sickness. • Mr. GEORGE D. WISE. My colleague, Mr. CABELL, is absent on 

account of sickness. . The SPEAKER pro tempore. This is not the time for excuses; that 

will be done further on. . Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I rise to a question of order, and it is 

this, that the roll-ca.ll having been proceeded with and the Chair having announced that excuses were in order and they having been begun, 

it is not now in order for gentlemen to interrupt that roll-call which the 

House is now executing. · 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Kentucky is in e:rror as to. the statement he makes. Members were offering excuses for absentees when the Chair announced it was not in order for excuses to be made at that time. Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I stand corrected, but I understood the names of absentees were about to he read under the rule. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair begs leave to state there is no rule of the House requiring excuses· for absentees to be rendered at 

this time. In case of further proceedings for the purpose of compelling 

the attendance of absent members, it will be in order to receive excuses for absent members. .. Mr. WILLIS. I move that the House resolve itself into the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union for the purpose of con- sideling the river and harbor appropriation bill. 

Mr. COSGROVE. Pending that I move the House do now adjourn. 

. The House divided; and there were-ayes 25, noes 85. . So the House refused to a<ljourn. . Mr. STORU. I rise to a parliamentary. inquiry. The last vote on a .call of the House disclosed a quorum was not present. Can any other 

business be tran&1.cted except to"proceed with the call of the House or 

to adjourn? 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. The Chair will stnte to the gentleman 

from Pennsylvania that there ha.'! been no proceedings in the House de- ·termining the fact that no quorum is present. There was a call in the 

Committee of the Whole, but there has been no ascertainment of the 

fact of no quorU.m in the House. · · Mr. STORM. Tftat fuct was reported t() the Hou e, and the House 

is in possession of that informjl.tion. 

.l.Ir. HOL1t'IAN. The roll-call showed therewasnoquorum present. 

The SPEAKER p1·u tempore. The question is on the motion of the 

gentlemanfr.omKentucky [Mr. WILLIS], that the House resolve itself 

into.the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 93, noes 2. 

.l.Ir. BELFORD. The call of the roll shows aquorum.isnot present. 

Mr .. DUNHAM. I <lesirc to ask a. question for information. The 

gentleman: from Georgia, [hlr. ~IMOND] , chairman of the Committee of the Whole IIouse on the state of the Union, reported that the 

committee. finding itself without a. quorum, had caused the roll to be 

called, and he then reported the names of the absentees to the House. 

Now, that list of absentees has never been read. . The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The Chair will state to the gentleman 

from lllinois that the rule requires the names of the absentees to be re- ported to the Honse to be entered upon the Journal. That does not 

require the reading of the names of the absentees . .. Mr. DUNHAM. Have the names been reported to the House? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. They have, and been entered upon tlie 

Journal as the rule requires. 

Mr. DUNHAM. Is the report of one· clerk to another reporting to 

the House. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The -Chair rules on the point of the 

gentleman from Illinois that the usual course has· been pursued. It 

has been the uniform custom of the House to proceed as bas been done 

~"~~ . The .Chair appoints Mr. WHITE of Kehtucky aml Mr. BLANCHARD as tellers, and they will take their places. 

The House divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 124, noes 8. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move that there be a call of the 

House . . We ought to have a quorum when discussing a bill that carries 

$12;000,000 and over. 

Mr. O'NEILL, of Missouri. I ask for a division on that motion. 

The House divided; and there were-ayes 24, noes 62. 

So the motion was disagreed to. • . 11fr. WILLIS. 11fr. Speak~, there are here about the usual number 

of members who legislate, and in order to get mt>re it would be neces- sary to exhaust the patience and time of those who are here, and that 

I am unwilling to do. I have, as the House will bear me witness, done 

everything I could to advance this bill as expeditiously as is consistent 

with its proper ~nsideration; J!ut I do not feel it would be right to 

ask the House to tax the members who are present by keeping them 

here until a call of the House can be enforced. I will only ask the 

members who are present and those who may be here to-morrow to 

give the committee aJl the aid they can in the consideration of this bill. 

Mr. WffiTE, of Kentucky. Mr. Speaker, there is nothing before 

the House, and I move that.we now adjourn. 

Mr. WILLIS. And in view of these facts and the obstruction that 

has been foisted upon the House, I move that it do now adjourn. 

Mr. WffiTE, of Kentucky, I hav.e already made that- motion. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Kentucky moves that the House do now adjourn. • · Several MEMBERS. Which gentleman from J{entucky? 

The SPEAKER ~·o tempore. The gentleman from Kentucky on the 

right of the Chair LAir. WILLIS] is recognized as making the motion, 

he having the. floor, and not the gentleman on the left, who interposed 

the motion. 

The motion was agreed to; ~nd accordingly (at 9 o'clock and 6 minutes p. m.) the House adjourned. 

. PETITIONS, ETC. 

The following petitions and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk, under the rule, and referred as foUows: 

By Mr. BARBOUR: Petition and papers of John A. Fairfax for re- lief as to ceTtain losses during the late war-to the Committee on War 

Claims. 

By Mr: BAYNE: Petition of Rev. E. E. Swift, D. D., and others, of 

Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, praying the early consideratioa by 

Congress of the Mormon question.::__to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By Mr. BEACH: Petition of·citizens of Newburg, N. Y., on the 

Mormon question-to tht! same committee. . By .ltfr. BURLEIGH: Petition of citizens of Cambridge, N. Y.1 re- questing early consideratio_n of the Mormon question-to the same committee. • . By .ltfr: CARLETON: Petitions of Robert N. Jenks and about 75 

others, of Saint Clair; and of D. ~ester and about 75 others, of Saint Clair, 

:Mich., asking for the purchase by the United States of the Portage 

Lake Canal, and to make the same free of tolls-to the Committee on Rivers and Harbt>rs. 

By Mr: HAYNES : Petition of A vetas Blood and others, of Manches· 

ter, N. H., for legislation to put in force the reciprocity treaty with 

Mexico-to the Committee on Ways and Means. 

By 1\fr. A: S. HEWITT·: -Petition of the New York State Cider and 

Cider-Vinegar Association, asking for the repeal of the vaporizing law 

of 1879-to the same committee. 

By llr. J. T. JONES: Memorial of the Alabama Legislature, fer improvement of Coosa River-to the Committee on Rivers and Harbors . By Mr. LO~: Petition of Mrs. L. C. Marks and 50 others, of Thomas 

McCorkle, jr., and 23 others of J. H. Nixon and 30 others, and of George 

Gray and 31 others, citizens of Wilmington, Del., for the suppression 

of l\lormonism by Jaw-to the Committee on the Judiciary. :Ify .Mr. I!IERCE: Petition of William H. Kellough, executOr ofEleazer 'V oods, deceased, of Gibson County, Tennessee, asking compensation for property taken and used by the United States. Army during the 

late WJU-to the Committee on War Claims. 

By .ltfr. SHIVELY: Petition of John F. Kendall and 95 others, citi- zens of La Porte, Ind., for action by Congress looking to the suppression 

ofMormonism in the UnitedStates-totbeCommitteeon the Judiciary. 

By Mr. E. B. TAYLOR: Petition of23 citizensofGreene, Trumbull 

County, Ohio, asking an increaseofwidows' pensions-to the Committee on-Pensions. 

By Mr. WEMPLE: Petition of citizens of Schenectady, N.Y., urging action by Congress upon the bills for the suppression of Mormonismto the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By llr. WINANS: Petition of the Racine Wagon and Carriage .l.Ianufacturing Company, for legislation favoring the reciprocity treaty with 

Mexico-to.the Committee on Ways and Means. 

By Mr. YAPLE: Petition of Mrs. C. Case- and others, citizens· of 

Niles, Mich., for .an increase of widows' pensions-to the Committee on Pensions. 

The following petitions for the passage of the Mexican war pension 

bill, with Senate amendments, were presented and severally referred 

to the Committee on Pensions: · 

By Mr, ALEXANDER: Of citizens of Sullivan Comity, .Missouri. 

By Mr. ANDERSON: Of 62 citizens of Clyde; of 13 citizens of Rice, 

Cloud. Collllty, and of 55 citizens of Sutphen's·Mills, Dickinson County, · Kansas. · By Mr. J. H. BREWER: Of citizens of West Point Pleasant, Ocean 

County, jlnd of Aaron Wilkes Post, Grand Army of the Republic, ofTrenton, N.J. . By 1tfr. CARLETON: Of S. H. Avery and 200others, of Port Huron; 

of .Peter B. Cade and others, of Romeo, and of Daniel George alld 65 

others, of Sanilac County, Michigan. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SE~ATE. 1279 ~· . .. . . 

By Mr. W. W. CULBERTSON: Of163voters of Ashland, Ky. · By Mr. CUTCHEON: Of citizens of Chase, of Lake, and of Newaygo 

· Counties, Mich. . By Mt. EATON: Of citizens of Hartford, Conn., and others. · By Mr. ELDREDGE: Of J. M. Bransonand159others, ofTecumseh, 

Mich. . By Mr. ENGLISH: Of Adam L. Ogg and 126 ex-soldiers, of Hancock County, Indiana. . By Mr. FUNSTON: Of citizens of Urbanna, of Ochiltree, and of 

Hepler, Kans. · By Mr. FYAN: Of B. R. A. Jones and 370 otpers, of Carthage, of 

Charles Jacobsand others, ofR. M. Peckand38 citizens, ot:WebbCity, 

of James Spain and 27 citizens of Carthage, Jasper County; of D. T. 

Bruck and 56 others, of Lawrence Countyj of John V. Atterbury and 

56 others of Elkland, Webster County; of J. E. Hunt•and 50 others, 

of Ash Grove, Greene.County; and· of Thomas J. Newport a~d 123 

others, ofNeosho, Newton County, "Missouri. . By Mr. HANBACK: Of 149 citizens of Scottville, and of 143 citizens· 

of Bull's City, Kans. . · • By Mr. HAYNES: Of Alfred J. Crane and 41 others, of Deerfield; 

of AamnWhitimore, jr., and 37 others, of Pittsfield; of J. C. Hill and 

14 others, of Wakefieid; of John Kenney and 10 others, ex-soldiers, of 

Greenville; of Isaiah Tuckerand49 others, ex-soldiers, ofRockingham 

County, and of Charles T. Gilman and 79 others, of Belmont, N. H. 

By Mr. HISCOCK: Of citizens of Cortland County, and of Syracuse, 

N.Y. · . By ~Ir. RITT: Of 15 citizens of Winslow, .of 48 citizens of Polo, of 

63 citizens of 1\Iount Carroll, and of 120 citizens of Brookville, Ill. 

By Mr. HOUSEMAN: Of David Stockdale and 38 others, of ·Wayland; ofEnglishville, and ofBerlin, Mich. 

By Mr. LACEY: Of J. S. Willson and 87 others, of Leslie, Mich. · By ?!Ir. LAMB: Of citizens.ofClay, of Yigo and of Fountain Counties, Indiana. 

By Mr. McCOID: Of citizens of Salin·a Jefferson County; of Wapello, Loui~;a CouJ;,lty, of Louisa and Henry Counties, ·Iowa. 

By Mr. McCOMAS: Of 120 soldiers and citizens of Garrett County, 

Maryland. . . By Mr. !liA YBURY: Of citizens of Wayne County, of Plymouth1 and 

of Ecorse, "Mich. . By Ur. MILLARD: Of citizens of Broome; of Tompkins, and of 

Schuyler Counties; of Dryden, of Trumbull Corners, and of Groton, 

Tompkins Connty, New York~ 

By Mr. MORRILL: Of 52 citizens of Severance, Doniphan County, 

Kansas. · • By Mr. MOULTON: Of 100 citizens of Macoupin, of Moultrie, and 

of Shelby Counties; and of Colis, Uoultrie County, Illinois. ·By Ur. NUTTING: Of numerous citizens of South Valley, Otsego 

County, and of Oneida, Madison County, New York. 

By Mr. PARKER: Of citizens of nusseU and of Hewittville, N.Y. 

By MI;'. PAYNE: Of G6 citizens of 'Yaterloo, of 38 citizens of Port 

Bvron, of S. E: Bulloch and 120 others,. citizens of Wolcott; of C. A. 

PUlver and 62 others, citizens of Sod'US; of 59 citizens of Moravia, and 

of 40 citizens of Owasco, N. Y, . By Mr. POLAND: Of Charles P. Coy and 300 others, of Bethel, and 

of Arthur S. Byam and 200 others, of Chester, Vt. 

By Mr. W. F . .ROGERS: Of ex-soldiers of Buffalo, and of citizens of 

Angola, Erie County, New York. 

By Mr. SPRINGER: Of citizens of Jacksonville, and of200 citizens 

of Forest City, Ill. 

By Mr. STEPHENSON: Of H. R. Allen and 35 ·others, of Merrill; 

of John Garty and 77 others, of Waupaca County, and of David Dicks 

and 55 others, of Langlade Cotinty, Wisconsin. _ . By Mr. J. W. STEWART: Of citizens of Lamoille, of Addison, of 

C4_ittenden, of Franklin, of Rutland, and of Bennington Counties, 

Vermont. 

! By Mr. STORM: Of citizens and soldiers of Carbo.J?. County, ~d of 

Nanticoke, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. 

By Mr. STRAIT: Of James Hartt and 37 others, of Winsted Lake, 

McLeod County; of S. Harnden and 64 others, of Farmington, :Qakota 

County; of·w. J. Ives and 15 othern, of Hutchinson, McLeod County;. 

of J. R. ButleJ; and 76 others, of Glencoe, McLeod County; of George 

Botham and 45 others, of Murdock, Swift County: Minnesota, and of 

Fred. A. Hobbs and 42 others, of South Norridgewock, Somerset 

County, Maine. 

By Mr. WAKEFIELD: Of 125 citizens of Kasota, of 94 cj.tizens of 

Eagle Lalte, and of 45 citizens of Balaton, Minn. · By Mr. WEAVER: Of George Little and 80 others, citizens of Odell; 

of P. Sherman and 328 others, citizens -of Tecumseh; of William G. 

Stone and 83 others, _citizens of Crab Orchardi of C. F. Came and 59 

others, citizens of Louisville, and of John McCaig and 88 others, citizens of Elmwood, Nebr. . By Mr. WEUPLE: Of citizensofEdinburg, of Gl<?versville, of Ballston, of Duanesburg, of Schuylerville, and of Amsterdam, N .. Y. 

By Mr. W. L. WILSON: Of64citizens of Preston County, of62citizens of Morgan's Glade, Preston County, and of 42 citizens of Randolph County, West Virginia. . . 

By "l!r. JOHN WINANS~ Of Edward Rogers and 64 others, mem..: bers of L. E. Curtin Po~t, No. 34, of W}litewater1 and of N. G. Parks 

and 23 others, of Woodworth, Wis. · ByMr. WOODWARD: Of170 citizens of Vernon, and of64 citizens 

of Sank Counties, Wisconsin. 

·SENATE. 

THURSDAY, February 5, 1885. 

Prayer by Rev. J. G. BuTLER, D. D., of the city of Washington. 

The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was rend and approved. 

PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore presented a petition of the Legislative 

Assembly of Idaho Territory, praying that so much of the lands in that 

Territory as are not actuallyrequired for the useand occupancy of the 

Shoshone and ·Bannock Indians may be restored to the pu))lic domain 

and opened to settlement; which was referred to the Committee on Indian Affairs. · 

He· also presented. a petition of the Legislative Assembly of Idaho 

Territory, praying that so much of the lands set apart in that Territory 

for the Nez Perce Indians as is not actually needed for their use .may 

be opened to_ settlement; which was referred to the Committee on illdian .Affairs. · 

Mr. WILSON presented the peti~ion o~ Joseph Qunningham and other 

citizens of Iowa, praying that a pension be granted to John Q. Deakins, late a 59ldier in the Black Hawk .war; which was referred to the 

Committee on Pensions. 

Mr. HARRISON presented the petition of Satnuel Barr and 45 other 

citizens of Tippecanoe County, Indiana, praying that an appropriation 

of$100,000 be made for the improvement of the Wabash River between 

La Fayette and Terre Haute, and Pitt.sburg, Ind.; which was referred 

to the CQmmittee on Commerce. 

Mr. S'!BIN presented a concurrent resolution of· the Legislature of 

Minnesota; which was read, and referred to the Committee on Commerce, as follows: · . 

Whereas the Senate of the United States paSsed certain resoiutions of date of 

April22, A. D.l884,directing the honorable Secretary of War to have examined 

and to procure information as to cost, condition, and value of the Portage Lake 

an.d Lake Superior Ship Canal Company's canal and the Portage Lake and 

River Improvement Company's canal (canals tha.t cut a channel across the base 

of Point Keweenaw, making an open passage from Keweena.w Bay to Lake 

Superior), said examination· to be made with a view to determining a fair value 

of said canals; and . · · 'Vhereas the honorable Secretary of War designated Col. 0. M. Poe, of the 

United States Army, to make full examination of these improvements and re· port all the fact.-., in accord.'lllce with the terms of said Senate resolution ; and 

Whereas the honorable Secretary of War, after Feceiving a full and careful re- port made by Colonel Poe, did submit his report to the Senate of the United 

States on January 5, A. D.l885, wherein the purchase of these two canals is rec- ommended at a.. fair and reasonable price, a.nd that they be made free water .ways to the commerce of the Northwest and the great !a.kes; and, · Whereas the t()lls and tonnage dues collected by these companies are a serl· . ous burden to important industries and a large number of people who are mainly supplied by these canals, and also a serious tax to the vessel interest and 

the commerce passing through them to the Northwest; and . Whereas these canals, form important channels. that should be made free to the 

great commerce of the Northwest a.nd that is tributary to La.ke Superior; and 

Whereas the general use of these canals shortens the distance through La.ke 

Superior via these canals over two hundred miles in going east and west, and 

permits of a quiet and safe passage, avoiding the most turbulent and unsafe por- tions of Lake Superior; and · Whereas these rona.ls may be made harbors of refuge where Lake Superior is the-most dangerous in navigating, and where these canals may be made the most available shelter from the storms that occasion serious disaster in this lake 

and .in the vicinity of these canals: And therefore, 

Be it resolved by the house of representatives (the senate concurring therein), That our Senators and Representatives in Congress be urged to use their influence in procuring such legislation as will result in acquiring the title to these canals .to the United States for the -purpose of making them free water ways to the com- merCe of Lake Superior and the Northwest. 

Resolved, That the clerk of the house be instructed to furnish duly certified 

copies of the foregoing resolutions to each Senator and Representative in Con· gress from the State of Minnesota. · Adopted by the house of representatives January 15, A. D.l885, and concw-red 

in by the senate Janua1·y 23, A. D.l885. . J. R. HOWARD, 

Chief Clerk of the House of Representativ~. 

Mr. CONGER presented the petition of James Moffat and 21 other 

citizens of Michigan, praying for the passage of the bill providing for 

the purchase by the Government of the two canals acrosS Keweenaw 

Point, Lake Supe1ior, State of Michigan; ·which was referred to the 

Committee on Commerce. · 

REPORT OF COIIIMITTEES; 

Mr. PIKE, from the Committee on Claims, to whom was referred the 

bill (H. R. 4382) for the relief of William H. Davis, ~eported it without amendment, and submitted a report thereon. 

Mr. CULLOM, from· the Committee on Pensions, to whom was re- ferred the bill (H. R. 5207) granting a pension to Adalbert Stickney, 

reported it without amendment, and submitted a report thereon • 

.1\fr. JACKSON. On behalf of the minority of the committee I present their views upon that bill, which I move be printed and laid on the table. 

The motion was agreed to.