1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1621 --------------------------~------------------------.-----------------------_,· ------~-----------------

Also, papers relating to the claim of I. & 0 . P . Cobb & Co., of Aurora, Iniliaua, for boats aud barges taken and destroyed, by order of 

General Boyle, on the Ohio River, in July, 18G3, to the Committee on 

W a.r Claims. 

By Mr. L.A. WSON: The memorial of Reid R. Throckmorton, of New 

York, for reward and compensation for the invention of the tubular 

locomotive boiler, to the Committee on Commerce. · Also, the petition of Buckman & Fogg, of New York City, con- tractors for carrying United States mails on route No. 6435, for increased compensation, to the Committee on the Post-Office and PostRoads. By Mr. LYNCH: The petition of Victoria L. Brewster, for a pension, 

to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By Mr. MERRIAM: The petition of George W. Blunt, of New 

York, for indemnification for alleged infringement by the Hydrographic Bureau of the copyright of Rogers & Black's code of signals, to the Committee on Naval .Affairs. 

By Mr. RICE: The remonstrance of bankers of Chicago, Illinois, 

against any additional issue of paper money by the Government, to 

the Committee on Ba.nking and Currency. 

By Mr. SCUDDER, of New York: The petition of citizens of Huntington, Suffolk Cotmty, New York, that FrankM. Crossman may build 

at his own expense a breakwater in Cold Spring Harbor, to the Committee on Commerce. 

Also, the petition of coasting captains, vessel-owners, and others, 

of New York, for an :tppropriation for the erection of a light-house at 

the entrance of Colcl Spring Hu,rbor, Long Island, to the Committee 

on Commerce. 

By Mr. SMITH, of Virginia: The petition of the heirs of E. 0. 

Watkins, for compensation for property tnken during the late war, to 

the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. SPRAGUE : The petition of Peter M. Ward, of Pomeroy, 

Ohio, for correction of his military record, to the Committee on Military Affairs. By Mr. WHEELER: Resolutions of the common connell of the 

city of Buffalo, New York, asking an appropriation of the sum esti- mated by the Chief of Engineers for the prosecution of the harbor 

improvements in progress at Buffalo, to the Committee on Commerce. By Mr. WILLIAMS, of Wisconsin: The p etition of De Lorm:t 

Brooks, of Wisconsin, prayiu~ for an amendment of the Constitution which will dispense witn the present judiciary system, and 

substitute therefor arbitration by persons chosen and paid by the 

parties litigant, to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

IN SENATE. 

THURSDAY, February 19, 1874. 

Prayer by Rev. E. D. OWEN, of Washington. . The Secretary proceeded to read the Journal of yesterd:ty's proceedmgs. 

Mr. FENTON. I move to dispense with the further reading of the 

Journal. 

:Mr. ROBERTSON. The Senate is too thin to attempt to do any 

business at present. I therefore think tho reading of the Journal had 

better be proceeded with. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempoTe. The Senator from South Carolina 

objects. 

'£he Secretary resumed the reading of the Journal. 

Mr. ROBERTSON. As several Senators havo jnst come in, I withdmw my objection. T~e PRESIDENT pro _tempor~. If there_benofurtherobjection, the reading of the Journal will be dlSpensed With. The Chair hears none. 

HOUSE BILLS REFERRED. 

The following bills from the House of Representatives were sever- ally read twice by their titles, and referred to the Committee on the 

Judiciary : .A. bill (H. R. No. 492) to make persons charged with crimes and 

offenses com pent witnesses; 

.A"J:>ill (H. R. No. 933)_to provide for the holding of terms of the 

distnct court of the Umted States for the western district of Missouri 

at Springfield, in said State; 

.A. bill (H. R. No. 1592) limiting the time for prosecutions and con- victions in certain criminal offenses ; 

.A. bill (H. R. No. 1593) relating to the ptmishment of the crime of 

manslancrhter; 

A bill (H. R. No. 1594) for the punishment of extortion by officers or person acting nuder the authority of the United States· and 

.A. bill (H. R. No. 207 ) for the benefit of occupying claim~nts. The bill (H. R. No. 2076) to authorize the Secretary of the Treasury 

to discontinue the use of tho cutter Relief as a revenue-cutter and use_sai~ vessel for a boarding station in Mobile Bay, was read twj_ce by 1ts t1tle, and referred to the Committee on Commerce. 

MARINE-HOSPITAL REPORT. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore laid llefore the Senate the resolution 

o~ ~he House of Represe~tatives ~or printing the report of the super- Vlsmg surgeon of the manne-hosp1tal service for the year 1873 · which was read, as follows : ' 

~oloed, (the Senate c?ncu·rring,) That the Government Printer he instructed to prmt fi_ve thouS!lnd cop1~s of th? report of John W. Woodworth, supervising sur- geon of tho manne-hosp1tal semco of th~ United States for the year 1873; fifteen 

hundred for the use of the Seiillte, and thirty-five hundred for the use of the House. 

The resolution was referred to the Committee on Printing. 

NATIONAL SA VINGS-BAJ.'fK. 

The PRESIDENT pm tempore laid before the Senate the annual statement of the National Savings-Bank of the District o;f Columbia in ac- cordance with section 8 of tJ:!.e special act of incorporation approved 

May 20, 1870, for the year ending December 31,1873; which, on mot.ion 

of l't'lr. SHERMAN, was referred to the Committee on 1!-..in:.LUce and ordered 

to be printed. ' PETITIONS AlirD MEMORIALS. 

. The PRESID~NT p1·o ternporo presente(l the following joint resolution of the Leg1slature of the tate of Iowa; which was read : 

Joint resolution relative to the amount due from the United States to the State of 

~~vt:~~~o~:! ~f lands conveyed to non-commissioned officers and privates in 

Wher?as in t~e act.admittin~ the S~~e of Iowa into the Union, for and on account of c~rtam consulerations thercm s~emficd, Co~g~·e s stipulated .to pay to saiu State 

5.per ce1_1t .. on !Jle sales of the 1mblic lands Wlthm the same, w1thont anyrescr,-:1-

tion or lim~ tatwn whatever; 3:JJ~l wilereas a ve~y large portion of saiu public lands 

has ~e.en disposed .of und~r military ~varrants Issued to non-commissione:l officers, mns1~1ans, aml_pnvates m tho J.:I;ex1can war, upon which the Departrnentof the 

In tenor has rl?fused to pay the smd 5 p er c~nt .. ; a~ul whereas, in the opinion of the 

members of this General Assembly, s:ud claim IS a Just andequit..1.bleone andshoulu 

receive a favorable consideration and the sanction of Congre s : Ther fore, 

Resqlvcd by tlw G&neral Assembly of. tlw State of Iowa, That Congx·e s be, aml the same IS hereby, requested, by resolution or otherwi e, to direct tlio Q-Qneral Land 

Office to tako accotmt of all the public lanus within the State of Iowa. which may have been dispo ~cl of unde!' said military warrants, and to allow aml pay ::; per cent. thereon, at an estimate of :.;1.25 per acre. · esol~ed1 That our Senator" he instructed and our Representatives requested to 

~~~ ~;~~nence to_secure a proper recognition and an equitable adjustment of 

R esolved, T~t the secretarY. of state be instructed to forward a certified copy of these resolutions to the President of tile Senate anc.l to the Speaker of the House 

and to each of our Senators and Representatives in Congress. ' 

JOHN H. GEAR, .Speaker of the House of Representatives. 

JOSEPll DYSART, P1·ebident of the Senate. 

Approved February 6, 1874. 

C. C. CA.RPE~TER. 

STATE OF IOWA, SS : 

I, J~siah T. Youn<T, secretary of st..1.te of I owa, do hereby certify the above and for~golflg to he a ftill, true, an.Ci. complete copy of the said orirrinal resolution now on lllem my office. " • WitnC?Ss my_hand and the peat seal of the State of ~owa.. Done at the city of 

Des Momes this 14th day of 1rebruary, A. D. 1874. 

[SEAL.) JOSIAH T. YOUNG, 

Secretary of State of Iowa. 

I hereby certify that this joint resolution originated in the senate. J. A. T. HULL, Secretary. 

Mr. WRIGHT. I move that that memorial be referred to the Committee on Public Lan<ls, and I desire to say that to-morrow or Monday _morning I shall introduce a bip. upo;u that subject, and I shall ask 

the mdu1gence of t.he Senate for five mmutes while I explain it. 

The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The resolution will be referred to 

the Committee on Public Lands. 

1\:Ir. SCOTT. I present the memorial of shippinO' merchants busi- ness men, and other citizens of Philadelphia, prot~stinO' acrain~t the 

passage of the House bill leasing to Messrs. Dupont of'Wi'lmincrton 

Delaware, th~ Old Lazare~o ~ite, ne~r Penro~e Fer~y Bridge, o~ th~ bank o_f the n~er Schuylkill, m the cttyof Philadelphia, for a powder 

maga~me,_setting forth t?e dangers to s~rrounding buildings and the 

effect 1t Will have upon 1mprovement.s m that neighborhood of the 

c_ity. Th~ memor~al is signed by officers of three of the steamship 

lines of ~hiladelphla, and by a large n~ber of the leading commercial 

and busmess men of that City. I believe the bill was referred to the 

Committee on Military Affairs, and I ask the reference of this petition 

to that committee. The PRESIDENT pro tempm·e. It will be so referred . Mr. SCOTT. I notice~~ the Associated Press dispatches in refer- ence to one or two petitions on the same subject that they were referred to the Committee on Commerce. If that be dorrect, I will ask 

to have the reference changed. I am not aware how it is on the 

Journal. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The other petitions were l'eferred 

to the Committee on Iilitary Affairs . Mr. SCO'Yr presented the petition of Jolm Barnard and others of C~e~ter Co_unty:, enusylv~n a, praying fo! the appointment of a c~m­ llllSSlOn o~ mquu:y concerm!lg _the alcoholic liquor traffic, its relations 

to pauperlSm, crnne, the publtc health, and general welfare · which 

was ordered to lie on the table. ' 

Mr. BOGY pre~ented_ a memorial of .A.. G. Neugent, agent of the 

State of ~lls oun, praymg the passage of a bill to reimburse that 

State for expenses incurred in placing soldiers in the field during the 

wa,r of tho rebellion; which was referred to the Committee on Militu.l'y Affa,irs, a,ud ordered to be printed. 

Mr. ALLISON presented the following joint resolution of the Legis-
1622 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

lature of Iowa; which was referred to the Committee on Privileges 

aml Elections : 

.Joint resolution requesting the Senators and Representatives in Congress from this 

State to vote for and use their influence in procurin"' an amendment to the Constitution of the United States so that United States 'Senators shall be elected by 

the :people. 

Resolved lfy the General Assembly o.f the State of Iowa, That the Senators and 

Representatives in Congress from this State be requested to vote and use their infin· ence to so amend the Constitution of the United States that United States Senators ·shal1 be chosen by the people of the several States, and not by the Legislatures thereof. 

Approved February 6, 1874. 

Mr. SHERMAN. I present a petition signed by about 200 bankers, 

merchants, and other citizens of Chicago, illinois. In looking over the list I find among them the names of many of the leading firms 

of the city of Chicago known to me by reputation. They respect.:. 

fully represent that they view with alarm the propositions before 

Congress for increasing the volume of United States notes; that they 

believe that any additional issue of paper money by the Government 

would be most injurious to the interests of the nation;. that the 

country is now suffering, and has been for the past twelve years, great 

loss and inconvenience arising from an irredeemable currency. Values 

of all kinds of merchandise and other property are continually fluctuating, owing to the constantly changing price of gold, ancl thus no certain calculations can bo made in business. Speculations of all 

kinds are stimulated by an irredeemable currency, and the minds of 

the whole people are demoralized aml roudored unfit for the pursuits 

of steady industry. They further represent that the resumption of 

specie payments at the earliest practicable time is imperatively re- quired by the interests of the nation, and they most respectfully 

deprecate the issue of any more legal-tender notes, a"! such a proceeding would be understood as postponing indefinitely a return to a sound 

financial condition ; and they further pra.y that the green backs alrea-dy 

issued out of the so-called reserve shall be withdrawn again as speedily as possible. I move that this p etition be referre{l to the Committ,oo on Finance. 

1\fr. LOGAN. I did not hear the names that were attached to that 

petition. 

Mr. SHERMAN. Tho names of about two hunclred bankers and merchants. I know some of them. Mr. LOGAN. The petition has been in circulation for some time. 

I know the men who signed it, and I can only say that some of the 

gentlemen who signed it were the first men to close their doors and r eftu;e to pay their depositors, ::tnd they did pay their depositors with 

all cl~ses of paper that they had on hand. I do not speak of all of 

them; but some of the leading men who signed that paper have to- day in the hands of depositors paper of all classes, and closed their 

doors and refused to pay. Now they want specie payments. I do not 

speak of the ma,iority of them, but I speak of some, for I have seen their names published in the papers. I desire to say now, inordert.hat 

the Senator from Ohio and his c·ommittee may be satisfied in reference to the sentiment of my constituents in Chicago on this subject, that as soon as the time allows it to come here, I shall present a petition, 

without any speech accompanying it, showing what the sentiment of 

that portion of the country really is. 

The PRESIDENT pro temp01·e. The petition will be referred to the 

Committee on Finance. 

:Mr. BUCKINGHAM presented the petition of John H. Wall and 

other citizens of Lynn, Massachusetts, praying for the appointment of a commission of inquiry concerning the alcoholic liquor traffic, its 

relations to pauperism, crime, the public health, and general welfare ; 

which wa-s ordered to lie on the table. 

Mr. HAMLIN presented a petition of ship-m::tsters, ship-builders, 

and ship-owners of the town of Searsport, Maine, praying for an ap- propriation for the purpose of erecting the "Close fog-bell" signals 

along the coast of the United States wherever the shippiu:g interests 

may require; which was referred to the Committee on Commerce. 

111r. FENTON presented the petition of the Methodist Episcopal 

church, of Phillipsburgh, New Jersey, signed by their pastor, Rev. 

\Yilliam N. Searles, and other officers, praying for the appointment 

of a commission of inquiry concerning the alcoholic liquor traffic, its 

relations to pauperism, crime, the public health, and general welfare; 

which was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. RAMSEY presented a letter of the Commissioner of Indian 

.Affairs, and other papers, relating to the bill (S. ro. 411) for the relief 

of the Holy Cross Mission in the Territory of Dakota; which 'Yere 

referred to the Committee on Public Lands. · 1\'Ir. MITCHELL. I present a memorial numerously signed by citi- zens of Oregon, in whlch they represent that the entire people of Oregon and of the adjacent Territories are deeply interested in obtaining 

rail way communication with the East; that the vast interior country 

between the Cascade Mountains and Salt Lake is without means of 

transportation, and that the Portland, Dalles and Salt Lake Railroad 

is a,n enterprise calculated to assist greatly the wants of commerce, 

and to develop the country in natural resonrces; that tho isolated 

condition of this entire region is a constant drawback to its growth 

and prosperity. They respectfully state that the bill introduced by 

myself, asking aid for this enterprise, is in the true interests of com- merce and of territorial development ; that the enterprise itself is 

entitled to take rank as a national work, and as such demands, as they 

thiuk, t he f::tvorable attention of Congress. They therefore pray t.ho 

passage of the bill. I move the reference of tills petition to the Committee on Public Lands. 

The motion was agreed to . Mr. IERRIMON presented the petition of Jonathan S. Taylor, 

praying that he ma.y be allowed a pension; which was referred to the 

Committee on Pensions. 

1\Ir. OGLESBY presented the petition of General Henry Raymond 

and Colonel Abraham Dally, of New York, asking that Congress so amend the laws as to allow a pension to all honorably discha.rgecl 

soldiers of the war of 1812, and to the widows of such soldiers, without regard to the time of marriage; which was referred to the Committee on Pensions. 

1\Ir. GORDON presented the memorial of John Mabry, praying 

that he may be restored to the pension-rolls, and that a pension be 

paid him on account of services rendered in the Mexican war; which was referred to the Committee on Pensions. 

REPORTS OF CO:Ml\IITTEES. 

:tllr. CONKLING, from the Committee on "commerce, to whom was referred the bill (S. No. 482) to authorize the construction of a bridge 

across the Willamette River, at Salem, in the State of Oregon, re- ported adversely thereon; and t he bill was postponed indefinitely. 

Mr. FERRY, of Connecticut, from the Committee on Patents, to 

whom was referred the bill (S. No. 119) for the better secmity of 

property in patterns for metal castings, reported it wi'thout amenclment. · Mr. CHANDLER1 from the Committee on Commerce, to whom was referretl the bill (S. No. 485) to grant an American register to the 

Canadia.n schooner George Warren, reported it without amendment. 

Ho also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the Lill 

(S. No. 237) to change the name of the port of San Pedro, California, 

to Wilmington, reported it without amendment. 

He also, from the same committee, reported a bill (S. No. 517) 

authorizing 1he Secretary of the Treasury to use tho revenue-cutter 

Relief as a boarding station in Mobile Bay; which was read and 

passed to a second reading. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempo're. The Chair will remind the Senator 

from Michigan that a House bill on the same subject has just boon referred to that committee this morning. 

Mr. CHANDLER. Then I will not ask action on this until tho 

committee consider the House bill. 

Ur. MORRILL, of Maine, from the Committee on Appropriations, 

to whom was referred the bill (S. No. 474) for the relief of mail con- tractors for services rendered in tho States of Virginia,, North Caro- lina, South Carolina., Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Tonne - see, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Texas, prior to May 31, 1861, asked to bo 

di charged from its further consideration, and that it be referred to the 

Committee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads; which was agreed to. 

He also, from tht' same committee, to whom was referred the bill 

(S. No. 277) making an appropriation of $792.46, due the late James 

L. Day, of Connecticut, for transporting the mails over post-route 

8152, asked to be clischargecl from its further consideration, and that 

it be referred to the Committee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads; which was agreed to. 

He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the petition of certain mechanics and laborers employed by the Government 

on Dix Island, in the State of Iaine, praying compensation for the 

two hours' additional labor performed by them each day over and 

above a lawful day's work previous ro the 11th day of June, 1872, asked 

to be dischar~ed from its further consideration, and that it be referred 

t.o the Comnnttee on Claims; which wa"! agreed to. 

Mr. PRATT, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was referred 

the petition of various citizens of West Virginia in behalf of William 

C. Parker, of that State, praying that he be allowed a pension, submitted an adverse report thereon; which was ordered to be printed, and 

the committee was discharged from the fm·ther consideration of tho 

petition. · · 

He also; from the same committee, to whom was referred the petition of John P. fcElray, late of Company D, Forty-ninth Regiment 

of Missouri Volunteers, praying to be allowed a pension, submitted an adverse report t.hereon; which was ordered to be printed, and the 

committee was discharged from the further consideration of the petition . 

1\Ir. McCREERY, from the Committee on Indian Affairs, to whom was referred the bHl (H. R. No. 1922) to establish a reservation forcertain Iudiaus in the Territory of Montana, reported it without amend- ment. 

He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the bill 

(S. No. 296) to establish a reservation for certain Indians in the Territory of Montana, asked to be discharged from its further consideration ; which was agreed to. 

h-. HOWE. I beg leave to report, from the Joint Committee on the Library, the bill (S. No. 300) proviilin~ for a bust of the l:ttc Chief 

Justice Chase, to be placed iu the room of the Supreme Conrt. The 

two HQuses have already acted on that subject., and provided for such a bust. The committee therefo1·e recommend that this bill be indefinitely postponed. 

The report was agreed to. 

:tllr. JOHNSTO.r, from the Committee on Patents, to whom ·was r ferred the petitiou of Rudolf Eickmeyer, praying the extensiun of 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1623 

a patent on sewing-machines for stitching linings into hats, reported 

adversely thereon, and asked to be discharged from its further con- sideration; which was agreed to. . He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the petition of John W. :Marsh, praying for the reissue of a patent on improve- ments in sewing-machines, reportetl adversely thereon, and asked to 

be clischarged from its further consideration; which was agreed to. Mr. DENNIS, from the Committee on Commerce, to whom was re- ferred the bill (B. No. 406) to allow the schooner Ocean Wave to take 

the name of Edith E. ·wright, and be registered under. that name, re- ported it without amendment. 

Mr. CLAYTON; from the Committee on Military Affairs, to whom was referred a petition of various citizens of Illinois, in behalf of Abram 

Hoevener, late of the Second Regiment fississippi Volunteers, Afri- can descent, praying to be allowetl the ilifference in pay between that 

of sergeant and secontllientenant, submitted an adverse report; which was ordered to be printed, and the committee was discha,rged from 

the further considemtion of the petition. Mr. OGLESBY, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was referred the petition of Barnet Simonson, of New York, praying for a bounty -land wan· ant and pension, submitted an ad verse report thereon; 

which was ord0red to be printed, and the committee was discharged 

from the further consideration of the petition. He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the peti- tion of Celia Tweed, praying for a pension, submitted an adverse re- port thereon; which was ordered to be printed, and t]w committee was discharged from the further consideration of the petition. 

Mr. FERRY, of lichigan, from the Committee on Post-Offices aml 

Post-Roads, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. No. 1222) for the 

relief of George W. Keyes, reported it without amendment, and sub- mitted a report thereon ; which was ordered to be printed. He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. No. 517) for t,he relief of Sarah F . Lincoln, postmaster at Spencerport, 

:Monroe County, New York~ reported it without amendment, aml submitted a report thereon; which was ordered t.o be printed. 

PROTECTION OF THE CHANNEL OF BUFFALO RIVER. 

Mr. CONKLING. I am instructed by the Committee on Commerce 

to report a brief House bill and to ask its present consideration, which 

I think 'Yill take but a moment. It can harilly be objectetl to; and 

if it is to be passed, time is very important. 

By unanimous consent., the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, 

proceeded to consider the bill (H. R. No. 1906) to dredge and protect 

tho navigaUle channel at the mouth of the Buffalo River against the 

sand-bar formed by the gaJ.e of December, 1873. The bill appropriates the sum of 20,000, to be expended by the 

Secretary of \V ar for the purpose of dredging and protecting the 

navigable channel at the month of the Bu:IIalo River, and of removing 

the sand-bar formed by the great gale of December last at that point. 

Ir. CONKLING. It will be seen that the purpose is to anticipate, 

by $20,000, whatever appropriation may go to this harbor, owing to a very unusual casualty which happened in December from an almost 

unprecedented gale. I hold in my hand a communication from the 

Secreta.ry of War, and one from the Chief of Engineers, showing the 

eminent necessity of this, which I will have read if any Senator de- sires. 

1\lr. l\IORRILL, of Maine. I should like to hn.ve it read, because 

it may be necessary to refer to it. 

The Chief Clerk read the following letter : 

OFFICE OF THE CmEF OF ENGINEERS, 

Washington, D. 0., Februa7iJ 17, 1874. 

Sm: I have to acknowledge the reference to this office for report of the letter of 

the chairman of the Committee on Commerce of the Senate of the United States, of 

the 12th instant, inclo ing H . R. bill1906 aml requesting information as t{) the neces- sity for an early appropnation for dredging, &c., at the mouth of Buffalo Tiiver, 

New York, and beg lea.vo to reply, that from information r ecently received at this 

office it appears that there has accumulated at the head of the south Unite1l States 

pier at Buffalo about twenty thousand cubic yards of sand, which may seriously obstruct the channel unless removed by dredging. This deposit of sand has been caused mainly by the extraordinarily severe gale of December last, ami the danger 

is imminent that when tho ice in the lake breaks up and begins to scour along tho 

shoro of Lake Erie into the Niagara River, the larger part or this sand will be car- ried across the mouth of Buffalo River at the li~ht-house pier-head. To prevent this, immediate relief by dredging should be proVIde!l for; otherwise t.he incoming 

fleet from the West will be compelled to seck refuge behind the outer breakwater 

and lighter before entering the harbor. It is belie>ed that n ecessity exists for an appropriation in advance of the passage of the river and harbor act to r emedy the 

evil referred to, and it is therefore renommended that H . R. bill 1906 be passed. The letter of the chairman of the Committee on Commerce is herewith returned. 

Very respectfully, yonr obedient servant, 

A. A. HUMPHREYS, 

Brigadier-General and Ohief of Engineers. 

Hon. W. W. BELKNAP, SecretanJ of 1Va1·. 

The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered 

to a tb,ird reading, read the third time, and passed. 

COP YRIGHT AND PATENT CASES. 

:Mr. FERRY, of Connecticut. The Committee on Patents, to whom was referred the bill (S. No, 494) amendatory of an act to revise, con- solidate, and amend the statutes relating to patents :tnd copyrights, have clirected me to report it back with an amendment, and, as amended, to a-sk for its present consiuerat.ion. It is very brief. 

By unanimous consent, the Senate, as in Committee of the \Vhole, 

proeoeded to consider t he bill. . 

The Committee on Patents reported the bill with au amendment, 

to make it reau as follows : 

That tho provisions of section 55 of the act entitled "An act to revise, consolidate, and amend the statutes relating to patents and copyr-ights," approved July 8, 1870, shall be applicable to all suits and proceedings at law or in equity pending at the time of the passage of said act. 

:Mr. FERRY, of Connecticut. The bill is to remedy an oversight in the repealing section of the general act of 1870. By t he fifty-fifth 

section jurisdiction was given to the courts, after the decree of a per- manent injunction in case of infringement of a patent, to assess the 

damages themselves. Prior to that time damages were assessed by a jnry. It was intended that the alteration should apply in all such 

cases, whether pending at that time or not. But in the repealing 

clause of the act of 1870, substantially this phra-seology is used : "Tho 

remedial provisions of this act shall apply to cases hereafter to be 

brought," or words to that effect ; so that the intention of the fifty- fifth section is really not obtained in reference to cases then pendiJ?..&· The committee have therefore reoommended the passage of this bill. The amendmentwas agreed to. The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amendment was concurred in. The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading, read the 

third time, and passed. 

POST-ROUTES IN ARKANSAS. 

Mr. RAMSEY. The Committee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads, to 

whom was r "'ferretl the bill (S. No. 493) to establish certain postroutes in the State of Arkansas, have instructed me to report it back 

and recommend its passage. I should like the Senate to consider the 

bill at once. It is a very short bill; and although the committee were careful in reporting the regular post-route bill, it is said in this 

instance that there may be a saving of $10,000 by taking off steamboat service from the Arkansas River and putting the mail on the 

route sup;gested in this bill. 

:Mr. CAMERON. I wish the Senator from Minnesota would withtlraw his bill until to-morrow. I gave notice yesterday that I want ed 

to call up a bill to-day. Mr. CLAYTON. I hope the Senator from Pennsylvania will make no objection to this bill. It is one that is made necessary from the 

construction of a railroad across the Arkansas River. It will save at least 810,000. Mr. CAMERON . I will make no objection, as I want help myself 

to get up a bill. By unanimous consent, the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, 

proceeded to consider the bill, which proposes to establish the follow- ing post-ron tes in Arkansas: From Little Rock, via Argentine, Reed's Landing, Eagle Landing, 

Wampoo, Plum Ba,yon, Adamsburgh, and Pastoria, to Pine Bluff; 

From Pine Bluff, via Carson, Rob Roy, New Gascony, Greenback, 

Cooper's Landing, Willamettc, and Sa,rassa, to Arkansa-s Post; 

From Watson's Station, on the Texas, 1\lississippi River and North- western Railroad, to Red Fork, on the ..Arkansas Hive.r; and 

From Bath Station, on the Texas, Mississippi River ancl Northweste-rn Railroad, to South Bend, on the Arkansas River. The bill.was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered to 

be engrosseu for a. thircl reading, read the third time, and passed. 

LAND DISTRICT IN ffiW MEXICO. 

Mr. PRATT. The Committee on Public Lands, to whom wa re- ferred the bill (H. R. No. 4.29) creating an additional land district 

in the Territory of :New 1\Iexico, have directed me to report the same back to he Senate without amendment, and recommend the passage 

of the bill. Inasmuch as there is some UTgeucy for the present con- sideration of the bill, I ask that it be now put on Hs pa-ssage. 

There being no objection, the Senate, as in Committee of the 'Vhole, 

proceeded to consider the bill, which provides tha.t all that portion of 

the Territory of New Iexico lying south of the principal base line of 

the 'Ierritory shall constitute a separate land district, to be called the 

La fesilla land district, the office of which shall be located at such 

plac<5in the district as the President of the United States may direct, 

which may be changed from time to time as the public interest may 

require. . The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered 

to a third reading; read the third time, and passed. 

REPORT OF SUPERVISING SURGEON OF 1ARINE HOSPITALS. 

Mr. ANTHONY. The Committee on Printing, to whom wa-s referred 

the resolution to print five hundred additional copies of the report of 

the supervising surgeon of the marine-hospital service of the United 

States, for the nse of the Treasury Department, have instructed me to 

report it back and recommend its passage. I ask for the present con- sideration of the resolution. There being no objection, the Senate proceeded to consider the following resolution : 

Resolved, That five hundred extra copies of the report of tho supervising surgnoL of the marine-hospital serviee of the United States be printed for the use of-th6 

Treasury Department. 

Mr. STEVENSON. I should li"Ke to ask the Senator from Rhode 

Island how many have already been ordered 'f . 

:Mr. ANTHONY. I think there have been no extra copies of this 
J624 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY lU, 

document ordered. It only costs eighty-nine dollars and some odd 

cents to print this number. The resolution was agreed to. 

CENTE TNIAL EXITIBITION. 

Mr. BUCKINGHAM. I am instructed by the Committee on Indian 

Affairs, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. No. 1923) authorizing 

the payment of annuities into the treasury of the Seminole tribe of 

India.nB, to report it back :with an amendment, and ask for its present 

consideration. 

!vir. CiliERON. I hope there will be no new business entered on now during the morning hour. 

Mr. BUCKINGHAM. I will give way to any morning business. 

Mr. CAMERON. I gave notice yesterday that I would bring up at 

the end of the ordinary businestt of the morning hour to-day a certain 

bill. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempm·e. Does the Senator from Pennsylva- nia object? 

lli. BUCKINGHAM. Allow me to withdraw the presentation of 

the report until another time. 

The PRESIDENT pro tmnpm·e. The report is withdrawn for the 

present. Mr. CAMERON. Now I move that the Senate proceecl to the con- sideration of the bill (H. R. No. 13:J4) in relation to the centennial 

exhibition. 

The PRESIDENT pro ternpoi·e. Is there objection to taking up the 

bill inclicated by the Senator fTom Pennsylvania f · . Mr. SARGENT. I object. 

The PRESIDENT pro tentpore. Senators in favor of the motion--

Mr. SUMNER. I object. . The PRESIDENT pro te~npore. Objection was made to unanimous 

consent, and now the Chair is putting the question on the motion. 

Mr. SUMNER. Very well. 

Mr. WRIGHT. It will be remembered that when we closed the 

morning hour yesterday we had under consideration Senate bill No. 161; and I think that in a very short time we can dispose of that bill. I am opposed to taking up the bill of the Senator from Pennsylvania at present, for the r eason just statecl, th...'tt I think we ought to 

get through with the morning business; and in the next place I think 

the bill he suggests is of such importance that we ought not to take 

it up during the morning hour. I hall therefore antagonize t.he proposition with the bill I h ave referr ed to. The PRESIDENT p1·o tentpore. The question is on the motion of 

the Senator from Pennsylvania. 

:Mr. SUMNER. It seems to me that the Senate will depart from its 

usual order of bu iness if it abandons an important and interesting 

question under debate yesterday at the close of the morning hour, in 

order to enter upon a cliscussion which must be extensive, an<l which we had better look at ::tt once. It involves millions of money- millions 

of money to be consider e<l in the morning hour, a.nd millions of money 

to be thrust into debate, in order to shut out the interesting question 

that the Senate was considering yesterday. 

Now, sir, I speak directly to the question of business; I do not go 

into the merits of either bill; but I submit to the Senate that we had 

better proceed with the business in hand, and especially that we should not displace it in order to take up a proposition which will require 

hours, if not days, of discussion, and-which, as I have already stated, involves the appropriation of millions of money. I snppo e the Senate 

is about ready to vote on the question o.f the commission to inquire into 

the traffic in alcoholic drinks; I doubt if there is to be much more debate on t hat question; but be the debate more or loss, that que tion 

should be concluded before we enter upon another, at least during the morn~g hour; and then, as I have already suggested, not during the 

morrnng hour should we undertake to involve tho country to the ex- tent of somewhere from five to fliteen millions of dollars. 

Mr. CAMERON. M.r. President, I am very much surprised to find an opposition to a simple measure such as I desire to bring forwa-rcl 

coming from the Senator from :Mas achusetts, who is generally so liberal ancl so ready to second all measures for the 4onor and glory of 

the country. What h e says in regall'd to the bill of ye terday is to some extent correct. I shall go with him in favor of that bill as far as he will go. In all matters relating to temperance, in all matters which go to the improvement of the morals of the people, I will go 

with the Senator a I have gone with him many a time, and perhaps, as I have done sometimes before, I will go ahead of him on such q ues- tions. 

But I think it is unjust that he shoulcl state that ·the bill which I 

propose to bring up will involve millions. He has given a magnitude 

to the sum that under any eircumstances can be required far, far above 

anything that anybody will expect the Government to tlo after this. 

He talks about fifteen millions, when the bill which I pre ·ent here does 

not ask a cent-not one cent. It is only brought her to correct some errors in the State Department in relation to the centennial exhibi- tion. Cong~·ess pas ed a. law in 1871 directing that a centennial ex- hibition should be helll in the citv of Philadelphia for various rroocl reasons given ill the debate, and in '1872 passed another law incorp~rating a company and making the question a national one, not only gi v- ing the sanction of Congress to all that was done, but authorizing the 

persons appointed in that bill commissioners to invite contribntions and persons from all parts of the world. 

The PRESIDENT pm tempore. It is the duty of the Chair to remind 

the Senator that the merits of the bill cannot be debated on this 

motion to proceed to its consideration. Mr. C.AUERON. That is very true, :md I thank the President for 

giving me the hint. But I am not on the merits now; when we get 

up tho bill I shall show you what its merits are, if I can. Now, we only want it acted on immediately, because, as I wa about saying, the 

commissioners gave invitations to different persons in different parts 

of the world and some of tho invitations were accepted; among the 

rost an acceptance came from the German Empire from the hands of 

Bismarck himself, expre ::~ing great interest in the international ex- hibition and prolnising to be one of the powers that would be represented at it. Directly after that the Secretary of State, feeling that 

he might be too far. committed in the measure, gave directions to our 

ministers and consuls abroad to say that he did not invite them, 

although he had already invited them by other acts. What a position did that put us in ! People were invited to our house and were getting ready to come. Pos ibly yon may have been sometimes cir- cumstanced, Mr. President, as I have been, invited to a house and 

when you got there found there was no feast prepared. I have too 

much pride in my country to have such an act committed here in 

regard to a great measure in which we a.re all so much concerned. 

The reason I urge now tho passage of the present bill is that we may 

have time to prepare. This is the beginning of 1 74. In 1876 tho 

exhibition must be in full operation, a little more than two yea1·s 

after this. I ask now that the Senate take up the bill and pass it, 

which has nothing in it except a matter of form. The bill is on the 

table of all the Senators, with a little pamphlet sho\ving all the laws 

that have been pas ed. I ask the Clerk to read the bill. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The bill will be read for information. 

The CHIEF CLERIC .A bill--

Mr. SUl\Jl{ER. Is the bill before the Senate t 

The PRESIDENT pro ten~pore. It is not. 

Mr. CAMERON. It may be read, I supp(}se. 

The PRESIDENT pro telnpo1·e. The Senator from Pennsylvania 

asks to have it read for information. 

M.r. SUMNER. Very well. 

The Chief Clerk read the bill, as follows: 

Whereas at various international exhibitions which have been h eld in foreign 

countries the United States have been represented, in pursuance of invitations 

given by the governments of those countries and accepted by our own Government: Therefore, 

Be it en!l.cted, cf:c. , That the President bo requested to extend, in the name of 

the Uniterl States, a r espectful and cordial invitation t{) the governments of other 

nations to be represented and take part in the international exposition to be h ld at Philadelphia, under the auspices of the Government of the United St.'ttes, in the 

year 1876. 

:Ur. STEVENSON. Mr. President, I never object to or interfere with the private bill of any Senator on this floor; but if I am cor- rectly informed the bill proposed to be taken up by the Senator from 

Pennsylvania during the morning hour is to become an entering wedge 

for an appropriation of from$5,000,000 to 10,000,000 from the Treasury 

of the United States. When the act of 1871. to which the Senator 

from Pennsylvania [Mr. CAMERON] referred, 'vas pa sed, the seventh 

section of it providedThat no compensation for services shall be paid to the commissione1·s or other 

officers provided by this act, from the Treasury of the United States; ancl the United 

States shall not be' liable for any expenses attending such exhibition, or by reason of the same. 

Section 8 providedThat whenever the President shall be informed by the governor of the StatoO of 

P ennsylvania that provision has been ma-de for the erection of suiL.'l>ble bnililings for the purpose, and for the exclusive control b.v tho commission h erein proviued for 

of tho proposed exhibition, the President shall, through the Department of State, 

make proclamation of tho same, setting forth the time ·at which the exhibition will 

open anu the place at which it will be held; and he shall communicate to the cliplomatic representatives of all nations copies of the sa.mo, to!!ether ·with such regulations'as may be adopted by the commissioners, for publication in their respectivo countries. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair must remind the Senator 

that debate on the merits of this question is not in order at this time. 

Mr. STEVENSON. I do not propose to discuss the merits now. I was only stating t he question as I umlerstand it, and about stating some reasons why a bill of so much importance should not be taken 

up and disposed of during the morning hour, if that is in order. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is undoubtedly in order to dis- en s whether the bill shall be taken up this morning or at some other 

time, but not the merits of the bill. 

Mr. STEVENSON. I again repeat, it is not my purpose to go at this 

time into a general discussion of this bill; but I simply de ire to state 

to the Senator from Ponnsylv:111ia [Mr. CAMERO~] that if I comprehend this mea-sure it will ultimately commit the Government of the 

United States to an appropriation of not less than five aucl which 

may reach ten million dollars to this centennial celeuration. I think 

I speak advisedly. I think I can show that the reason for asking speedy action now by Congress is that this proposea centennial can- not go on unless Congress shall appropriate this amount of money ; 

that the erection and completion of the buildings by private enter- prise was to be a sine qua non to any invitation being cxtenrlctl by 

tho President to foreign power~, and that a1l this wa' to b accom- p~ishecl by corporate and inclivi(ln.a.l subscrip'Jiou. Now I tlll(lcr~t.au d 
-- ----------------------~~~~----~~~~--------------------------~ 

1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1625 

the fact to be that these buildings have not been erected, and I 

have reason to believe that they never will be built unless a large 

appropriation from Congress is obtained. This constitutes the ne- cessity of the prompt passa,ge of this bill to which the honorable Senator alludes. The object of the bill is to inaugurate a measure which shall commit Congress upon this subject-by which the faith 

of the Government shall be committed to a State and corporate 

undertaking. This is shown by the two acts which were passed on 

3d March, 1871, and in J nne, 1872. I insist that this bill shall be 

examined and discussed before committing the Government to an implied obligation and future appropriation of certainly not less than 

five, and which may exceed ten, million clollars. 

Although this present bill doe not provide, as the Senator from Pennsylvania says, for the appropriation of a dollar, he will not deny that 

it contemplates the plighted faith of the Government for millions 

hereafter; it is the entering wedge to such an obligation, and I wish now to state to the Senator from Pennsylvania that if such be the 

purpose, it is better tha,t bot.h Congress and the country shall understand it. Why not ask frankly for that. direct aid, stating its objecU 

Why this indirect legislation 'f A deficiency of forty-odd millions of 

the annual revenue confronts us. The absolute necessity of a rigid 

economy to meet the ordinary expenditUI·es of the Government to pre- vent increa.sed taxation is impo ed upon Congress. We have been, as you know, obliged to cut down both the Army and Navy appropriations for the next fiscal year. In view of the condition of our finances, I insist the Senate should to,ke no step which shall, without 

full eli cussion, commit the Government to any futme appropriation 

of millions of money to what has hitherto been regarded as a cor- porate or State undertaking. 

If the Congress of the United States shall hereafter determine to 

make this celebration wholly a national affair, and agree to appropriate the millions which shall be required to make it a national suc- cess, then it shmuel go to tho Committee on Appropriations. Such a measme cannot be--

The PRESIDENT p1·o tempm·e. The Chair must again remind the 

Senator that his remarks are adclressed to the merits of this bill. 

ll!r. STEVENSON. I am not adclres ing myself to the merits; I am only attempting to show that this bill sl10uld not be takeu up 

without a discussiou which would extend beyond the morning hour. 

The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The rule provides that on a motion 

to take up any measme it shall not bo in order to discuss its merits. 

On a motion to postpone one measure and take up another, while the 

rule as to debate on the merits of the measure to be taken up would 

be the same, the subject nuder consideration and which is to be postponed is always open to debate. But t.his motion is made simply to 

take up a mea ure. Now, if it were in order on one side to say that , this bill shall be taken up because it is an excellent bill, and, on the 

other side, that it ought not to be taken up because it is a very bad 

bill, the rule would be of no avail whatever. Mr. STEVENSON. Mr. President, I sa.id nothing about the merits 

of the mea,sure proposed to be taken up by the Senator from Pennsylvania. I have only opposed its present consideration. I said 

nothing as to whether after a full discussion I should vote for tlJe 

bill or vote against H. I have been urging rea ons why I thought 

this bill was too important to be taken up and considered during the 

morning hom. If I comprehend this bill, it is a quiet, unpretending 

measme, asking for no present appropriation from the Treasury, but 

still proposing to commit the Government to the cost of this celebra- tion at Philadelphia in 1876, as under the auspices of the Government, 

for which the Government will be in honor bound to pay hereafter. 

The former acts contemplated no such object. The Goverument is 

not now, directly or indirectly, bound. This act is necessaryto create 

such a liability. Let it be discussed and considered. ~!r. CAMERON. Will the Senator allow me to say a word 7 

Mr. STEVENSON. Certainly. 

ll!r. CAMERON. There are just ten minutes now before the morn- ing hom· will expire, and I wish to correct an erroneous statement of 

the Senator from Kentucky. 

ll!r. STEVENSON. I cannot hear the Senator. 

Mr. CAMERON. I say I wish to conect the statement of the Sen- ator. The PRESIDENT p1·o t-e1npore. The Chair must enforce its ruling 

that this debate is out of order. The only question before the Senate now is whether this bill shall be taken up now or at another time, 

and the remarks of the Senator from Kentucky and the remarks of the 

Senator from Pennsylvania go to the merits of the bill. ~!r. CAMERON. I was not going to make any remarks in favor of 

the bill, but to correct a m~statement, unintentional, of coUI·se, of 

the Senator from Kentucky. Section 8 of the act of 1 71, the sec- tion just below that read by the Senator from Kentucky, providesThat whenever the Pre ident shall be informed by the governor of the State of 

P ennsylvania. that provision bas been made for the erection of suitable buildings for the purpo e.~ llJld for the exclusive control by the commi sion herein proncled for 

of the proposen exhibition, the President shall, thn~ugh the Department of State, 

make proclamation of tho samo, &c. 

The Legislature of Pennsylvania, in consequence of this section, 

have appropri:l.ted 1,000,000 and the city of Phila{}elphia $500,000 

for tho buildings. I only wish to correct that tatement of the Senator. I know he would like to bo correct about it. 

Mr. STEVENSON. I ·bould liketoaskthe Senator from Pennsylvania what is tho estimated cost of the building . 

The PRESIDENT pro tempo1·e. The Chair rules that such debate is 

out of order. 

Mr. CAMERON. I cannot answer the question now, but I will when 

the bill comes up. 

Mr. SCOTT. Will the Senator from Kentucky permit me to make a suggestion to my colleague f 

Mr. STEVENSON. Certainly. 

Mr. SCOTT. Enough has transpired to show that this bill cannot 

be finally considered in the morning hom; and in view of the facts 

stated as to the importance of immediate or .early consideration, may 

I suggest to my colleague that he use the res1due of the morning hom 

in seeming action on a motion to make the bill a special order, o that it may be taken up soon, at a time when we can dispose of it'? 

Mr. C.iUIERON. I have tried two or three times to make it a spe- cial order. Now I leave it to my colleague, and I shall be very glad 

if he shall succeed in getting a tlay fixed for its consideration, and I 

will assist him in doing so. 

Mr. SCOTT. I should like to have the opinion of the chairman of 

t?e Co~mi~tee on Appropriations as to how soon the naval appropria,.. 

twn bill Will be out of tho way. I do not wa.ut to antagonize this measure unnecessarily, but it is certainly important that it be made a special order and be disposed of soon. :Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. In replytothatiwill saythat of course it will depend upon the disposition of the financial meaeure now before the Senate. If that should be cli...;;posed of to-day, I should 

hope that the naval appropriation bill might be disposed of by the 

Senate as early as .Monday next, perhaps. 

Mr. SARGENT. If it is taken up at once. Ir. MORRILL, of Maine. If it is taken up at once I do not anticipate that the bill will involve much debate or very great delay. I 

should hope that by Monday: or Tuesday at fmthest, if we dispo e of the financial bill to-day, we might get through with the naval ap- propriation bill. 

:Mr. SCOTT. Then I move that the consideration of this bill be 

made tho special order for Tuesday next. lr. S.ARG ENT. Provided it does not conflict with the naval appro- priation bill. 

Mr. CAMERON. Say Wednesday or Thursday. 

:Mr. SCOTT. My colleague suggests Wednesday next. Mr. SU~f:t\"'ER . I should like to know what is to become of the 

finances. The financial question is under discussion now, and when 

is that to end ~ 

Mr. SHER IAN. As a matter of course the unfinished business will 

override a special order. 

J',fr. SU ThTER. I understand that; but why should we go forward 

and make a special order on this important question in the dark' I 

wish the financial question brought to a reasonable termination. L t us have our votes upon it. We have had only one vote. It strikes me that the Senator from Pe1msylvania is interpo ing another important question right across the other and earlier question; and, 

unhappily, the question ho proposes is to impose new burdens upon 

the national Treasmy, when I cannot doubt it is om duty to watch it 

with care. 

Mr. SCHURZ. The proposition of the Senator from Pennsylvania 

is evidently to have this bill acted upon as soon as possible, ami to 

make speedy action as certain a.s it can be made. Now, for my part, 

I do not mean to indicate how I shall vote upon this bill. It may 

involve a lar~e appropriation of money, or it may not. The probability is that 1t wi.If. .At the same time it seems to me j ust to the 

people of Pennsylvama, or to those who have undertaken this great 

work, that thissubjectshould be disposed of as soon as possible. If the 

Congress of the United States be willing to make such an appropriation, let it be done in time, so that the appropriation can be used to a. good pnrpo . If the Congress of the United States be unwilling to 

make such an appropriation, let the people who have nndertaken this 

great enterprise know it in time, so as not to run into fmther e11..-pense 

andfmther liabilities, which might greatly embarrass them. I think 

it is therefore but just to those who have undertaken a work which, aft~r all, is patriotic, and which is designed to redound to the honor 

of this country, that they should be 'fairly dealt with by the ConO'ress 

of the United States; and it seems to me that the first thing we should 

do, as soon atleastas we cando it, is toletthem know how we expect 

to act upon this particular question, whether we mean to give them 

money or whether we mean not to give them money, so that they at 

least may govern themselves nccorclingly. I therefore am heartily in 

favor of tlJe motion made by the Senator from Pennsylvania on my 

left, [Mr. ScoTT,] and I hope the Senate may deem it wise to appoint as early a clay as can bo done without too much interfering with the 

great questions now before us and the business necessary to be transacted for the considemtion of this bill. .Mr. STEVEN ON. I was sadly misunderstood by Senators when 

thoy snppo eel that I wars opposing this bill. I only oppo ed its 

being taken up in the morning hour. I have no objection to it. being 

made a. special order. I concur in what has fallen from tho Senator 

from Mis ·ouri, that it iii a question of t.oo much importance to be disposed of in the morning hom. I <lesire. that the e gentlemen shaJl have a full hearing, and I am then willing to abide by what the sentiment 

of the Senate shall be. I only desire that the bill should not be taken 

up this morning, and I simply attempted to give the rca on that I 

thought were involved in the cousitleration of the bill as tending against the motion to take it np now. 
1626 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

The PRESIDENT pro ternpore. Tho Senator from Pennsylvania 

moves--

1\fr. SUMNER. One word more, if t he Chair pleases. I would not 

have it understood t,hat I run acting except in the discharge of public 

duty, to secure t he best interests of my country, its r_enov.rn and glory, 

which I have ::Lt heart, and also the proper celebratiOn of that great 

anniversary of the day which first saw republican government on earth. That day I would have nobly commemorated; but I do object 

to this hasty, premature attempt to press this subject npon the attention of the Sena,te during the morning hour, a.nd I must also object 

to the effort to press it forward to the exclusion of important qu~s

tions now on our Calendar. When those have been adequately discussed and we have reached our conclusions upon them-one, two, 

three 'four questions, perhaps,-could be named of great importancethere' will be a time for us to fill ish this question. 

The PRESIDENT pTo ternpm·e. The morning hour ha,ving expired, 

the Senate resumes the consideration of the unfinished business of yesterday, which is the bill in rel::Ltion to national-ba~k circ~lation. 

Mr. SCOTT. I hope we may have ::L vote on this question. 

l\fr. CAMERON. I trnst the other business will be waived for a moment until we ca,n take a vote on the motion of my colleague. I 

believe that everybody is now agreed that a day shonlcl be :fixed for 

the consideration of this subj ect. I am glad to find th::Lt the Senator 

from Missouri has got in to his old track. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Pennsylvania 

asks that the pending order be laid aside informally, for tho purpose 

of proceeding with the centennial bill on the motion to make it a snecial order. Is there objection 1 ~Mr. SHERl\fAN. I have no objection if it creates no debate. I think 

it but fair to give the Senators from Pennsylvania ::L day in court, and 

therefore I hope we shall have a vote on the motion. 

Mr.l\IORTON. I think there are speci::Ll reasons why ibis bill should 

be acted upon one way or the other without delay. I know something 

about it. 

The PRESIDENT pro tentpm·e. The Senator from PcllllSylvania moves that this bill be made the special order for Wednesday next. . Is there objection 1 The Chair hears no objection, ::Lnd it is so ordered. 

MESSAGE F'ROM THE HOUSE. 

A message from the House of Representatives, by Mr. McPHERSON, 

its Clerk, annmmced that the Honse had passed tche following bills; in 

which the concurrence of the Sen:;tte was requested: 

A bill (H. R. No. 2080) to provide for deducting any debt due the 

United States from any judgment recovered against the United States 

by such debtor; _ A bill (H. R. No. 447) extenclin<Y the time for the completion of the Gre~n Bay allll Sturgeon Bay and Lake l\Iichigan Ship-Canal, in the 

State of Michigan; and 

A bill (H. R. No. 886) to provide fortheelection of Congressmen at 

large for the State of Alabama. 

The message also announced that the House ha.d pa-ssed the following bills of the Senate: 

A bill (S. No. 438) to withhold from salo the site of the old Nyatt 

Point light-house; and . . A bill (S. No. 269) to change the t1tles of certam naval officers, and 

for other purposes. NATIONAL-BANK CIRCULATIO~. 

The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the consideration of the bill (S. No. 432) to amend th0 act entitled "An act to provide for the redemption of the 3 per cent. temporary-loan certificates, 

and for an increase of national-bank notes," the pending question 

beinO' on the amendment of 1\Ir. CAMERON to the instructions moved 

by Mr. MERRil\10N to the motion of Ir. BuCKINGHAM to recommit 

the bill, namely, to strike out a,ll after the word "providing," in line 

3 of the instructions, and insert : 

That so much of section 2'2 of tho act entitled "An act t~ provide a national currency secured by a pledge of United States bonds. and to provide for the cir- culation and redemption thereof," approvecl .June 3, 1864, and of the ~e;veral acts supplementary thereto and amendatory thereof; and such of the proVIswns of the ar-t entitled "An act to provide for the redemption of the 3 per cent. t emporary- loan certificates, and for n,n increase of national-bank notes," approved .July 1::!, 

1870 aml so much of such parts of any other act or acts of Congress a-s limit, or as may be construed to limit or r estrict, the entire amount of notes for circulation to be issued lmder the said act of .June 3, 1864, and the several supplements t hereto, be, and the same arc hereby, r epealed; and that hereafter all associations organized, or that may be organized, lor carrying on the business of banking under the provisions of said act shall be free to establish and or,ganize national banks with circulation at any place within the several States and Territories of the United Skttes, 

upon the t erms and comlitions and subject to all tho limitations and restrictions now provided by law, except the limitation upon the entire amount of circulation. which 

1s hereby repealed. 

~Ir. MORTON. I ask for the yoa,s :1nclnays. 

The yeas a,nclnays were ordered. 

:Mr. COOPER. Is the pemling proposition amendable¥ 

The PRESIDENT p1'0 tMnpm·e. It is not. . Mr. HOWE. Mr. President, I have ::L word of apology to offer. I 

have pretended all along, sincethoopeningof this session, to be opposed 

to the increase of a paper irre.deemable currency. I thought I was opposed to it really. Here is a proposition, however, to increase a pttpor currency irredeemable ; and I am going for tha.t proposition. I 

deprecate the necessity which has overtaken me; but it is here, and 

I must struggle with it the best way I can. · 

I was rather glad when in the morning of this debn.tc I beard the 

honomble Senator from Ohio, [1\Ir. SHERl\:IAl"\'"1 ] aud tho honorable 

Senator from fissom·i, [:M1·. ScnoRZ,] and other Senators, t~tlk n.bout 

tho evils of a.n irredeemable paper circulation, and talk about the 

evil of continuing to circulate among the people of the country the 

promises of tlle Government of the United States dishonored. I 

thought that was good sound morality, and I thought Senators meant 

it, wanted to prevent it, would if they could. Yesterdn.y I thought 

I offered them a fa.ir opportunity to guard against inflating or expand- ing an irredeemable currency. I asked, I invited, the Senate to vote 

for a proposition which would allow the holclers of this deferred paper 

to give it up and take 5 per cent. bonds for it. A very large runjority 

of t ho Senate said no, they would not agree to that. I have all along 

explained to the Senate the necessity I felt myself to be unuer to do 

something, if I could, to accommo,date a :financial necessity wllich I 

believed to be not general through the ·west and the South, but to be 

partial, to be real, to be urgent, to be honest. I have also spoken several 

times to the Sena.te of that exclusive feature of your present banking 

L'l>w, which I hold to be a great reproach to H, and which I want to get 

ritl of. I do not see any possibility of getting rid of either of these 

evils but by accepting the proposition now submitted by the Senator 

from Pennsylvania. That is accompanied by this one evil conse- quence, that it does inflate the currency. I have offered to support a proposition which would remove that feat me. The Senate ha rej ected 

it, and I rp.nst take it raw, or not take it at all. I have concluded to 

take it, if I can get it. It will remove one great reproaeh from your 

statute; it will relieve some communities which have been m ging 

for relief, and are entitled to it; it will avoid the necessity of making a raid on om friends in Rhocle Island. I am always glad to be in 

Rllode Island in clam time. For the purposes proposed by the Senator 

from Ohio I would rather not go, considering that Rhode I land seems to regard such a visit very much as some of us regard the proposed visit 

of all mankind to Philadelphia in 1876; she is glad to see us, but 

does not want to pay anything-wants us to accommodate ourselves. It will avoid tho necessity, J !:lay, of making such an enforced visit as that; and so I am compelled to vote for this measure. But while I 

declare that to be my purpose now, I say I still hold myself ready on any day, in the Senate or out of the Senate, at any or at all times, to 

agree to any sensible measure which shall redeem tho good faith of 

the Government, and which shall prevent an expansion of this irre- deemable currency. 

Mr. LOGAN. I do not desire to detain the Senate a moment by 

way of discussion; but I wish to read. an article in the last Intm·- Ocean received here from Chicago, believing it to be the leading 

republican paper in the Northwest, merely in answer to what has 

been said, not expecting to convince anybody or to change any per- son's vote: MOllil~Y VS. CONSTITUE~CIES. 

"Tho New York business interests sencl word they hope t{) have by the midille of next week another memorial, r epresenting at least $300,000,000, protestin"' n ot only 

against further inflation, but insisting that the already-disbursed portfo11 of the 

so-called reserve may be called in."-.uate Washin,qton tc'teg1·ant. 

We do not know exactly how many hundred million dollars the memoria.ls from " the New York buslliess interest" already before Congress ropre"e.nt. Nor is 

it important to us or to anybody else that we should know. Nor is it of the 

sli.ghtest consequence to ConE,•Tess or to the country whether the New York memo- rialist.~ represent$300,000,000 or $1,000.000, or no dollars n.t:tl.J. Memorials addre sed to Congress on the subject of thecUITency, oronanyother subject, are not to be esti- mated according to the magnitude of the bank a-ccounts of the signers. The opinion 

of .Jones to the effect that it is the duty of Congress to contract still further the 

volume of cUITency. or to prohibit still further issues, will have no weight whatever 

with honest law-makers unless it is supported b,v r eason and convincing arguments. P etitions and protests merely serve to call attention to the fact that the people are divided and agitated on a given question. If a hundred thousand people peti- tioned Congress to do a certain thing, it should bo borne in mind that there are still 

thirty-nine or forty millions of other p eople still unheard. The petition or r emon- strance containing a hundred thous:md names, tl1erefore, is sin1ply a notice t{) Congress 

that the subject-matter of the prayer deserves consideration. But the idea th:lt the 

petition or r emonstrance is to boestimatedaccordingto the amount of property repre- sented, or pretended to be r epresented, by the signers is pernicious in tho extreme. It 

is a blow at the principle of the equality before the law of citizens, one with another, 

whether rich or poor, which Ues at the very foundation of our system of gove-rnment. It is a proposition to r ear on tho ruins of the old sla,ve oli~arcby an oligarchy consisting 

ofthemoneyodaristocracyofthecountry. Itisanattemptatamonstrousiunovation, w-hich cannot be tolerate(l for a moment. But if petitions in favor of contraction and remonstrances a~;::Unst an increa-se of the cUITenc:v are to be poured in upon Congress, this mcthoa of procedure runst be met in klnd. Let the people of the 

'Vest rich and poor, merchants, mechanics, and laboring men, send to Congr ess petitions asking squarely for an increase of the currency as the sole means by which 

the varied industries of the country can be brought ba-ck from their present condi· 

tion of h elpless collapse to a state of active prosperity. 

I merely read that to show the position of this paper. 

1\Ir. SCHURZ. What paper is that f · Mr. LOGAN. The Inter-Ocean. 

Mr. SCHURZ. So the Senator has been reading us a political artical from the Inter-Ocean. 

Mr. LOGAN. Certainly; I said so. 

1\Ir. SCHURZ. Now I will read to the Senate the financial article 

of the Inter-Ocean, probably of the same number: 

SATURDAY EVE:OUNG, February 14-

l\Ir. LOGAN. The paper I read from is dated tho 17th. 

Mr. SCHURZ. Then I read from the Inter-Ocean of February 14, 

containing the financial report : 

SATURDAY EVEt\IXG, February 14.-'l'he week closes on a quiet and easy local 

money market, esp ecially for parties who arc able to presentgootl collatcrals. 'l'he 

mo\·crnent of currency is decidedly in fayor of this city, and bankers are enabled 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1627 

to readily accommodate their customers. Farmers have been liberal sellers of pro- duce during the past month, and country bankers have materially increased their 

deposits, and in turn have forwarded them to the money centers for investment. 

This also has assistetl tho merchants to a great extent, as they have been able to ma1w closer collections and r equest f ewer favors of the banks. The ease in tho New York money markets, and a more ~eneral disposition to r efuse stocks as collaterals, bas a1c;o turnetl money in favor of the West, and some of the city corre pond· ents of the New York ultnks have hac\ con iclerable money placeu in their hands 

for the purpose of loaning ou colla.terals which can be turned quickly, and in which 

there is little probal>ilit.y of a sharp decline in prices. The principal demand is 

from grain aml provision operators, a,ud they a,ro generally accommodated to tho 

full extent of their requests. Lumber dealers aremakin.!! some inquiries for loans at the opening of the season, but have not made any definite arrangements. On the street the inquiry for loans is moderate, anu rates of interest arc easier for gootl paper, thou;:;h the majority of the offerings consist mainly of paper not in much 

favor with tne banks. Real estate loans are obtainable at the legal rate of interest. 

Here is the money article of the Inter-Ocean against its political. 

Mr. FERRY, of Michigan. I merely want to emphasize what the 

Senator has read in regard to the lumber-men. What he has read now verifies what I said ye terday. 

Mr. SCHURZ. I beg your pardon. I stated yesterday, n·om the 

money article of the Chicago Tribune, that during this season the lumber tmde has been very lively, and that about three times the amount 

had been shipped to the 'Vest that there was the year before. lli. FERRY, of Michigan. In regard to the ease of money and the 

possibility of making loans, the Senator took a certain ground yesterday. 1\Ir. SCHURZ. Perhaps the lumber-men were so fortunate us to 

operate upon a large scale without making loans. 

Mr. SHERMAN. :Mr. President, I certainly have no right to com- plain of the position taken by my honorable friend from 'Visconsin, 

[Mr. HowE.] As a matter of course, he is the best judge of his own course in re~ard to voting on the various propositions that come up; but I think I have a right to complain that he should at.tribute 

hi course in now voting for an unlimited sea of paper money to the 

fact that. I could not vote for his proposition yesterday. He has cer- tainly referred to it as an excuse for the course he thinks proper now to pursue. The reason I could not vote for the proposition of the Senator from Wisconsin was because, while I am in favor of the general 

purport of it, I am decidedly opposed to his moue of canceling or con- tracting the volume of greenbacks. In my judgment it is not neces- sary. The rna s of them can be maintained at par in goltl without the necessity of contracting sharply, decidedly, in the mode propo ed by 

him ; and therefore, with all respect for his opinion8, I could not vote 

for Iris propo ition, as he must have known. I however had so much r espect for him that I could not vote against it, and I sat quiet because the object of his proposition undoubtecliy met my approval; but the 

provision of it that required the cancellation of greenbacks did not 

meet my approval, and therefore I did not vote for it. 

Now, Mr. President, we are faced by a proposition, it is true far 

removed from tho bill, to allow anybody who can command the bonds 

of the United State-s to issue notes of the Unit.ed States to the amount 

of !:JO per cent. of the bonds, without limit, without restriction, with- out redemption, without convertibility- an unlimited sea of paper money, with no proposition whatever to convert either these notes or the greenbacks into anything of value that will either produce in- come or property. Itissin1plyto ~ive the right to is ue an unlimited 

amount of paper money, or limited. only by the amount of bonds that 

ma,y be purchased and by the amount of reserves required by law, 

and this in the bee of propositions pending in both Houses of Congress .to repeal the reserve, so that then there will be no limit except 

the amount of bonds. I have no desire to comment on that proposition further. A.s a matter of course, if this amendment is adopted it opens up the 

whole sea of debate; it opens up the whole controversy again, and we shall havo to go over it once more. I will not now offer any 

amendment to the pending proposition, simply because I should like 

to have the sense of the Senate tested. We have had a long debate 

already, and it is scarcely necessary to prolong it. If the Senate is now prepa.red to vote for this proposition and to instruct the Committee on Finance to report such a bill, undoubtedly the committee 

will obey its instructions, will follow the instructions literally, especially as the form of a bill is given and all -'"he materials are given; 

but as to whether such a proposition as that can be adopted, whether it can be adopted now, each Senator will have to say-stand upon his own position representing his own constituents, and responsible to 

them and to the people of the United States. Mr. BUCKINGHAM. 1\Ir. President, I should like to vote for the 

proposition of the Senator from Pennsylvania if there was connected 

with it anything which would restrain or curtail the issue of nationalbank notes; and for the want of that I must vote against it; for if 

we adopt that measure I can see nothing but disaster to the entire 

busines of this country--di aster which will result n·om an overflow 

of promises without any po ·sible chance for · redemption, until the 

community shall be overwhelmed with the idea that thel'e is little or no value in them. 

SuppOI'le the honorable Senator was in debt-a very improper sup- position, I agree; but suppo e he was in debt, and he should give his 

checks upon a bank, ancl men should go and ask the bank to pay his 

check and they should be answered., "He has no money here;" and 

therefore. the bank could not pay his checks. The holder of a check 

who recmved that answer first would know that the check was gootl, 

that the drawer of it was responsible., and therefore he wonld se_ek to 

pass it upon his neighbor, and his neighbor would ta.ke it, and take 

it whyt Because he would lmow that the man who gave the check was able to pay. And so he might issue other checks, aml other men would go to the bank and in the same way be refused, bnt by and by 

the number of checks would be so grea.t that the men who held them 

wonld be unable to get for them money with which they conld meet 

their own obligations, and therefore they would begin to decrease in 

value. Now let the honorable Senator increa e his obligations by in- creasing the number of checks until he has flooded the neighborhood 

where he lives with them, ancl what wonld be the value of his checks 'I 

I think not unlike that would be the effect of this measure, and therefore I cannot vote. for it. lli. FERRY, of :Michigan. 1\fr. Pre \dent, the Senator from Connec- ticut is as well aware as other Senators upon this floor that the simple proposition before the Senate now is (and unamendable, I would remind the Senator) to break the pre ent monopoly of banking; simply 

that and nothing more. In other words, if the banking privileges of 

to-day are desirable to any })Ortion of the community, they shoul<l be 

open to aU in harmony with t he spirit of our institutions. I say that 

is a simple proposition submitted to the Senate, and it is one, I think, 

which will commend itself to the whole nation. The Senator knows as well that if he desires to place restriction · upon this extension of privileges of the present banking system, ho 

will have the opport unity after the vote has been taken. If this propo- sition to make banking free to all be carried, it will then be open to 

amemlment., and such checks as the Senator may see fit to put upon 

it can be added; but at this stage of the proceeding there must be 

either a yea or nay vote upon the proposition whether banking shall 

be open to all or whether it shall be a monopoly for a few. 

Now, sir, I am not disposed to consume time, for I (lid design to 

speak at length on the pending question; but I will content myself 

by merely stating that my preference is that the Government shoulcl 

issue all the circulation of the country, and under a general system 

of banking separate t he issue from the clisconnt. That is my choice. But surveying the condition of the nation in it industrial and com- mercial relations from a business point and with a practical mind, 

my belief is that the cotmtry demands immediate relief; and if we cannot get it tmder the form of ~reenbacks, let us ha.ve it under the 

form of national-bank notes, as the next best step attainable. With 

tbe right to organize banks when and where wanted, the freedom 

will compensate for some objections. The Senator understands well that the national-bank currency is redeemable l>y greenbacks. Now, if I ·w"ere to suggest- and if the 

chairman of the Committee on Finance will take it in the spirit in 

which it is tendered- it wonhl be to 1n·ovide for some sort of redemp- tion of t he greenbacks, by fixing a mode of conversion or redemp- tion, and let the system of circulation become as free as air, to go 

wherever there is demaml for it. Mr. ~ERMAN. My friend will allow me to sugge t that the 

Senate has already vote(l down a pr oposition to redeem the greenbacks either in coin or bonds. 1\fr. FERRY, of :Michigan. For the very reason that the Senate 

had not stated its judgment upon the question whether there shall 

be an increase of currency or not; and if there be not freedom granted 

then there is restriction in the proposition ur~ed by the Senator. I can readily see how redemption or conversion mto 5 per cent. bonds may contract the currency if there is not an outlet ; but under free- dom of circulation ba ed upon the stocks .of the Government, that 

indispensable security will erve as the brake to regulate the volume 

of circulation, an(l, controlled by business demands, there will be a wholesome check upon any unnecessru.7 expansion of the currency. Now let rue remind the Senate of one fact. Senators talk about restriction, and we hear it stated by Senators n·om New England, who 

say that there is already so great a restriction upon the banking cap- ital that capitalists will no longer invest under the present system. What is the restriction f First, you must pay 10 to 15 per cent. pre- mium for your bonds ; next, you must leave a margin of 10 per cent. with the Government as additional security for the redemption of the 

currency. There ·is 25 per cent., to which must be added a reserve of 

15 per cent., making 40 per cent. iclie capital, so that you have but 60 

per cent. of your capital in the form of active circulation. Certainly 

that is an important restriction upon banking investments. That 

breaking up of capital >Yill necessarily prove a wholesome check upon an overissue of currency. · Now, I a,sk any Senator who takes exception to the proposition now pending before the Senate tills simple, practical question : lf the 

l>oucls of the Government, based upon the credit of the United States, 

with the simple addition of interest that is to accrue by the lapse of ·time, are a sufficient redemption for your currency, upon what princi- ple can it be denied that the same credit in like bonds as pledge for security will make the currency issued upon them sufe autl stable 

beyond the possibility of depreciation¥ I say po ibility, because I can- not now conceive of any po ible depreciation of United States bonds. 

Allusion has been made to this method of exp~msion, and comparison 

made with other issues with no valuable foumlation in fact. Tl.te 

superexcellence·of our currency is well illustrated by this simple fact : in all other panic· everybody who had a dollar of currency was glad 

to get rid of it; the ol>ject was to convert it into any other species of property. But when the last panic occurre<l it proved au exception to all o her panics, whether nuder suspell iou or not, in this re-
1628 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

gard; every man who had a dollar of Government issue or of national- bank issue held it, and preferred it to any other kind of property. If in the crucial test of a panic the people will thus act and hold 

the currency instead of converting it, and refusing even to convert it 

into coin at but 2 per cent. difference, (for youT currency stood at 4 

cent premium and your coin at 106,) what higher proof would you 

have that the people are satisfied with its value and safety Y Now, I 

say, a ystem based upon the credit of the whole nation, restricted by 

the total bonds held by and within the control of the nation-and 

that is but a moiety of the bonds that are now outstanding- cannot 

be one of insecurity by any means. Suppose, at the worst, all of the 

$1,GOO,OOO,OOO of bonds outstanding were held in this country and 

tendered for banking currency, the volume woultl not reach what it was in 1865 of all the forms then in circulation. \V e have thus tested 

without disaster a volume equal to the extreme maximum which I have 

suppositiously put. 

Mr. SCHURZ. Will the Senator permit me to ask him a question¥ 

Mr. FERRY, of :Michigan. Certainly. ~fr. SCHURZ. I understand the Senator just now said that in 

1865 the whole volume of our curTency in all its forms was about 

$1,600,000,000. ~fr. FERRY, of Michigan. To state more precisely, $1,575,000,000. 1\I.r. SCHURZ. \Viii the Senator be kind enough to inform us what 

the cturent rates of interest then were f 

1\fr. FERRY, of Michigan. Well, 1\fr. President, I thought that and 

the regulation of gold were settled pretty well and effectually in the 

j udgment of all by the Senator from Illinois, [Mr. LOGAN.] When, 

a,s was stated, the price of coin went up, and interest ran up be- cause the volume increased, it was caused solely, as was stated by the 

Senator from Illinois, by the doubt resting upon the ability of the 

nation to suppress the rebellion; and when gentlemen speak of the 

appreciation of our credit in the midst of the war, I tell them it was not simply because of any declaration of good faith on the part of 

Congress. I say to the chairman of the Committee on Finance, with 

due respect and without any clisparagement of his eminent labors and 

ability, it was not so much his services in leading the Finance Com- mittee and the Senate through the passage of acts to strengthen the 

public credit, but it wa more the services of the other Sherman, m~•rching to tho sea; and Grant, tramping through the wilderness, 

that settled the doubt restin~ upon the integrity and solvency of the 

cotmtry; and they were the illustrious financiers who caused gold to 

tumble. Mr. SCHURZ. I did not ask what the causes were of the decline 

of the premium on gold. I asked simply this question: ·whether, 

when the volume of the currency amounted to about $1,500,000,000, 

that is to say, double what it is now- not during the war, while there was any doubt as to the stability of the Government, but after the 

war, when tho victory was achieved, when the confidence of the 

people in the durability of our institutions was fully resto-red- ! ask 

whether the doubling of the amount of our currency had the elfect of 

reducing the rate of mterest at that time to one-half Y 

lir. FERRY, of .Michigan. I am not disposed to evade the question, 

and I will answer the Senator in the langua~e of my collea~ue, with 

whom I differ upon the currency question. 1 answer in his language 

when he said that during or succeeding the war, and up to within a very short period, the whole country was prospering. How"? Because 

business was done upon a cash basis; there was less individual indebteclness during that time in consequence of the adequacy of currency. 

Individuals could get currency then to transact their own business or the business of corporations at lower rates of inte.rest, and obtained 

it and paid as they went. That I deem the best answer to the 

question put by the Senator from Missouri. When the Government 

steps in and supplies abundant currency at a depreciation of 10 per 

cent., even taking that for granted, at the present rate of gold, it is 

far better than to force your circulation to a coin standard and com- pel an extended credit system to makeup for deficiencyof money. I 

would rather see money abundant so that business should · be trans- acted upon a cash principle than keep the volume of curreney in the 

hands of a monopoly who shall dictate to individuals the amount of 

their lines of credit, and extort from them as a consequence higher 

rates of interest. 1\ir. SCHURZ. If I clo not annoy the Senator from Michigan-- :Mr. FERRY, of Michigan. Not at all. Mr. SCHURZ. He says that the answer he has given is a-very clear 

and pertinent answer. I must say that if that answer wa~ very clear, 

my understanding must be excessively dull. .My question was this, 

and I repeat it: There was at that time what we call a generous 

abundance of money; there was just double the amount of what we have now, $1,500,000,000 of currency. The question I asked was whether that abundant amount of paper money had the effect of reducing the current rates of interest to one-half of what they are now. The Senator, instead of indulging in patriotic rhapsodies, which are · very well in their way, but, I suggest, cannot solve problems of finance, 

might have answered me point-blank yes or no, so that I should know 

what I was about. For my part, I suspect that although tho a.mount 

of currency in the count1·y then was double what it is now the cur- rent rates of interest were a.t least fully as high as they are to-day, 

and probably a good deal higher. fr. FERRY, of lichigan. The Senate is very well aware that the 

Senator from Missouri puts a hypothetical case. He does not state the 

rate of interest at one time, neither does he state it at another, n.ml 

therefore I am left to the general principle for reply to hi , general q ues- tion. If he wants me to draw tho a:q.swer more narrowly, I will state 

to him another fact, which has come perhaps within his own observation. In the city of New York, during the months of the summer, 

when there i a redundancy of currency, the rates of illterest are nominal; but in that same city, when there is a scarcity of cunency, or when other seasons of the year occupy more of that currency in 

busine s channels, you find the rates of interest running up. If tho 

Senator wants me to be more direct and practical than this, I will 

put my own observation and experience again t his. I will state 

that, so far as I am concerned, in 1865 and 1tlu6, during this increase of cUlTency, this flood of cunency, as it is called, I was able for myself and others to negotiate loans at from 2 to 4 per cent. less than I 

have been able to negotiate them within a month, and that is puttin~ 

it moderately. That is a direct and specific answer, and the general one in relation to New York is :mother answer to what the Senator 

has put. ~1r. SCHURZ. I am sony t.o trouble the Senator. 

Mr. FERRY, of Michigan. Not at all; I am not sorry to be troubled. Mr. SCHURZ. But I would say that the record of fin:ui.ce tells n. 

story a little different from that told by the Senator. He may, in his 

individual operation ' have been very fortunate; but if he will look 

at the newspapers of that period he will find that durin<Y the ~orre

sponding months, when exactly the same eondition of business pre- vailed that prevailed during the same months now, the rate of interest was not only as high but was usually higher than it is to-day, although 

tho supply of money was, as he has himself admitted, just douulo 

what it is now. 

Mr. l!""'ERRY, of Michigan. I can only say that the Senator looks 

through diffel'ent channel of business from what I clo. He looks 

through professional eyes, and I look through bu iness ones. That is ~ho difference uotween us. He puts doubt upon fact, and I put fact 

upon doubt. There is where we stand; simply that, and nothing else. I state .to him facts within my own knowledge that loans were nerro- tiated in the years mentioned at lower rates tha,n it is pos ible0

to 

negotia+o them now. W.u.en there is a redundancy of cuuen y hank- ers solicit debtors to take money, and modify interest rates; and in 

the other case tho debtors seek for loans and are subject to lenders' 

terms. 

Now, I desire to ca.ll attention to another check on this redundancy 

unde1· this measure of free ban1..-i.ng, and then I shall be through. If 

there is poverty in the land, as stated by the Senator from Mas!':.lChusetts, [~fr. BOUTWELL,] if the great obstacle in the way of return to 

specie redemption is the poverty of the country or in localit ies, th n there will be no capital to expand thjs currency. That will be a sub- stantial and effectual check. Let it not be forgotten that not a dollar of this currency can be dmwn out of the Trea ury by the hanks 

without placing there $1.10 or. 1.15for every ninety cents of currency. Eve;ry man who seeks to organize a uank must fir t have capital 

enough to buy the bonds, and when he has bought the uond , he theu 

gets 90 per cont. of currency upon those bonds. No man will enter 

into banking unless he is ure that there wm be a demand for the 

currency after he has organized his bank. That is a groat check. The poverty which is aiel to exist thTOughout the country, if it be 

so, is another essential check. Then in the way of security to the 

people the currency rests upon the bonds of the Government, for the 

payment of which the faith antl honor of the country are pledged. 

1\fr. BUCKINGH.Alof. The Senator from Iichigan objected to the 

position which I took, because that which be takes is so much better, 

designed a-s it iB to break down this monopoly . I think I have 

expressed no other opinion since I have been here than that it was important to break up this monopoly and to make the system of 

banking free. To make the banking system free is to ureak clown 

the monopoly. We then arrree in the object; but to break down the 

monopoly by introducing that which is more disastrous to the public 

interests than the monopoly itself is not my purpose ; and I verily 

believe that the :flood of irredeemable currency which would :flow over this country in consequence of a system of free ban1.'ing, with- out redemption in anything which was of more value than the bank 

bills themselves, would be a vastly greater evil than that which pertains to this so-called monopoly. The Senator claims that we may 

yet incorporate in the measure the very restrictions which we suggest. I ahould like to inquire of the honorable Senator if he is ready 

to vote that national-bank notes shall be redeemed in bonds'!' If so, 

that would be one restriction. :Ur. FERRY, of Michigan. I will answer the Senator frankly, by 

stating that I am in favor of convertibility. I have a-dvocated that 

since .the fourth clay of tho ses ion, and it is part of my plan. I will 

go with the Senator, so far as it shall be prudent in my judgment, to 

adopt some method of interconvertibility. ~fr. BUCKINGHAM. It is very surprising to me that a Senator on this floor is not willing to put two things together, when it is es en- tial to put those two principles in the bill, where the one will conn- teract or balance the other, so a-s to make the system a perfect, practicable system. Mere expansion is not elasticity; it is all stretch in one direction. \Vhat we want is somethin~ which will bring back 

tho currency or prevent too great an expansiOn. I should like to see something of that kind; I hope to see it, and yet I fear we shall not 

obtain it. · 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1629 

Mr. HOWE. Mr. President, I feel bound to say a word in reply to 

the Senator from Ohio, [:Mr. SHEmU l'f,] ... who seemed to think that I 

urged his vote last evening as my reason for voting for the amend- ment of the SenatorfromPcnnsylvania,[l\Ir. CAMERON.] Tha.tcould 

not have been my argument, unless I very much misstated it. I cer- tainly dill not know how the Senator voted last evening on the prop- osition which I had the honor to offer. I simply knew that the Sen- ate had voted against a. proposition which I offered with a view of 

preventing expansion. That vote briugs me to choose between the 

alternative ofletting a want, which I h ave complained of frequently, 

go without redress and without relief, or of allowin<T it to be relieved 

in the manner proposed by the Senator from Pennsylvania. I choose 

to support the measure now before the Senate. If inflation comes from it, it is not my fault. I repeat, because I see Senators smiling, 

if inflation comes from this measme it is not my fault, because the 

Senate might have guarded that possibility last night and may to- day, and also have relieved the Government from tha,t reproach which 

many of them liave hmled at it, of allowing its promise to go unre- deemed, simply by consenting to pay its promises with a 5 per cent. bond. That they do not choose to do, for reasons don btless satisfae- tory to them, very likely to be satisfactory to the country, but not at 

all satisfactory to me. I think I have a right to say that the expansion which may be ex- pected to follow upon the adoption of this measme is not so broad, so wide, so illimitable, as my honorable friend from Connecticut and 

others seem to think. If it were ever so broad, I should still go for it, 

holding those responsible for its effects who would not guard n.gaiust - those effects. I would go for it for the good there is in it, and hold- ing others responsible for the ill that is in it. But it is not of that character. It will be guarded, as the Senator from Michigan bas 

pointed out. Capital will be a little guarded in its investments. It 

always i . Nobody will be tempted by the freedom you offer to put 

money in the banking bu ine sunless he believes that there is an honest 

demand for capital to be employed in that way; and the judgment of 

cupitalists exercised as to t he wants of t particular locality can be relied upon a great deal more safely than our judgment as to whether 

the whole country has more or less circulation than it wants. I uo not know of any financier capable of determining that question with 

accuracy; but I know of a great ma.ny gentlemen whose opinion as to whether more ba.nk currency should be used in New York, or Chi- cago, or Green Bay, or Dubuque, would be very satisfactory to me, aud 

I should rely upon it pretty confidently. No dollar will be invested 

in banking under your bill unless such ca.pitalists, such business men, 

find some locality where tlley think it can be employed advantageously to themselves, because profitably to the community about 

them. I know that this paper currency will be expanded somewhat. I 

know more money will be invested in banking when the Government 

gratuitously furnishes the banks a redeeming medium of $400,000,000 

of mere promises, not money. l\Im·e currency and more bank-notes 

will be put out than would be put out if capitalists were required to 

redeem every one of their notes on demand in coin. But that is be- cause the inducement you are holding out is o great. That is what 

brings about that expansion. You can make that less if you will. In making it less, of com e you guard against this danger. It is not 

the fa.ult of the single proposition before you. It is not because of 

anything in the particular proposition before you that this danger 

is so strong; it is becau e of something tha.t the Senate will not 

incorporate upon that. Mr. fORRILL, of Vermont. Mr. President, the time is not auspi- cious for making any speech here ; f:rr tho die is cast ; the minds of 

Senators are made up. It is not my purpose to make a ·speech, 

but I wish to submit a few remarks on some points that seem to me worthy of a little further consideration before the final vote is t.a.ken. Is it not strange, l\fr. President, that since 1866 we should have hau a new race of statesmen and philosophers born here to adorn our country Up to 1866 there was no one here or elsewhere who re- pudia.ted the example and the doctrines of the earlier st.ate men of our country as well as of the statesmen of other countries in rol:Ltion 

to the great questions of finance; and yet we find here now arrayed on one side of this que tion Senators who utterly repudiate the idea of being bound by any precedents of the past. In 1836 there wa~ n. 

general unanimity in favor of approaching the resum,ption of specie 

payments at once. Now, we find in this Chamber Senators are per- haps nearly equally divided upon that question. 

It seems to me that a great and material error is at the base of this 

division of opinions. The question here presented is now one of un- limit-ed banking privilege anywhere and to anybody. It would seem, therefore, that Senators believe that cmTmwy, or so-called paper ·money, is the lever which i to produce wealth. Never was there a greater mistake. Wealth is only to be produced by la.bor anu the 

products of bbor. The merchandise and tho commodities that any 

locality may have for sale will always command money, and thattheu 

lJecomes t.he evidence of wealth. The orio-inal question that was brought in here by the Committ-ee 011 Finance was simply a qnestion relating to the distrilmtion of 

$2-5,000,000 of circulation held by the Eastern States, among those that were dcfici0nt. The complaint was that the Comptroller of the Cur - runcy founll that the ln.w could not be carried into practical effc~t. 

The Committee on Finance brought in the bill here for the sole purpose of removing any obstacle to its going into immediateoperation. 'Vhen that bill came here it was met by the parties who were to derive 

the greatest benefit from it with opposition. It was said that it was not enongh. In t.be language of the Senator from Indiana [ Ir. MoRTON] it was declared to be "a half-way measme," or not even that. Now, sir, I desire to show that when that bill was passed t.he distin- Pcuished Senator from Indiana not only thought that it was more than 

'a bali- ay mea-sure," but even more than he would himself require, perhaps. I thou~ht I had the Globe, containing the remarks of the 

Senator from Incl1ana.. I do not find them, but I can state them, for 

I read them this morning. It was then propo eel to retire $45,000,000 

of the 3 per cent. certificates, with an increase of bank circulation · to the same ext.ent; and a bill bad passed the Senate for a redistri- bution of '* 30,000,000 of the banking currency held by t he Eastern States ; and the distinguished Senator from Indiana saiU at that time 

that if the other bill was passed and this bill aJso, it wa perhaps more than he should require; certainly that it was enough. That bill 

passed) but it pas ed at $25,000,000- only $5,000,000 less- and the 

$54,00u,OOO bill also passed. At first the Senator from Indiana was only for a trifling, a very 

moderate, increase of the amount of paper money; he was for pour- ing only a little water into the pump, in order .to pump out more. That increase has been made to the extent of at least 27,000,000, 

i ued b the Secretary of the Treasury. But now, the appetite hav- , ing grown upon what it feeds, the Senator wants a great deal more ; 

he wants, I suppose by his efforts here, going with tho e who go 

furthest, to have an indefinite amount of national-bank not.es. As a leader on that subject, the Senator, I fear, has not been quite consist- ent. I propose to read his position in March, 1!;G9, in relation to the 

redemption of greenbacks. There was a bill pending, and he referred 

to an act already pas eel, which contained this clause : 

Shall also be L'lwful money and a e.~al tender in payment of all debts, public and 

private, within the United ~tates, except duties on imports ancl interest as aforesaid. 

The Senator from Indiana remarked upon that : 

Language cannot be broader, cannot be more comprehensive, than tltis; and this 

is a pmt o£ the contract between the Government and e>ery purchaser of a bond 

created subsequent to that time, except where the creation of that bond is exnepted from its operation, as it was in the ten-forty ad. I tis a part of the contract, although 

it is not contained in tho sn.mo itlcntical act of Congre s tha.t creates the l>onlls. 'it 

is tho law, in full force and operation when all these bonds were sold, and is in force 

to-day. 

The position of the Senator at that time was that the bonds of the 

United , tates couhl be paid in greenbacks. But he enforced that 

idea with his usual emphasis further: 

It is a mere quibble to say that becansa the right to pay the obligation in le<'al- tendcr notes does not exist in the act crca,ting tho bo-::J.Ils, therefore it is not appli- cable. If it is found in another law of the s:1Ille date or of antecedent date, it is 

just as much a part of the contract., it is just as much a part of the right of the Gov- ernment, as if it was contained in the act creating the obligation. 

But what I more particularly desired to call the attention of the 

Sena.te to was his position in relation to a point which I havo a.t heart 

uow, as I bad then , and that is the redemption of the United Stat-es 

notes in coin or its equivalent; and now I quote what the Senator from Indiana said l\farch 11, 1 69: 

lli. President, this bill doescontainono provision that I am glad of, and it is this: "And the United States al o solemnly pledges its faith to make provision at the 

earliest practicable period for the redemption of the United Sta-tes notes in coin." 

Sir, that is worth all tho rest. It will do more tha.n all tho rest to strcn!!then the 

public credit. Who cn,n doubt it~ Aml in view of this solemn pledge thi Con- · gress ought not to adjourn with.out making some provision for the purpose of 

redeeming the United States notes in coin according to the terms of this solemn 

promise; and when that is dono, all the rest adjusts and settles itself. 

That was good doctrine in 1869. I was happy then to follow the 

Senator, and I very much regret that he has changed his position. Again, February 27, the Senator from Indiana said : 

This part of the bill- • 

Referring to the part which I havo already readmeets with my approval, I believe it is the first time that it has been proposecl in 

Congress to declare that tlto ;rreenl>acks are to be paid in coin. Although logically 

there is nothing else in which a greenl>ack can be paid, yet I believe it has e~·er 

been thought or desired on the part of those who hav-o been tinkering with the law upon this question to declare that the greenbacks were payable in coin. 

I consider these doctrines uttered by the Senator at that time as sonnu. If they were sonml the11, they are sotmd now. We onght to 

ba.ve complied with that law before this time; anu yet the mensme before ns puts off the lby for au indefinite periou. '\Vho can toll 

when wo are to resume specie payments, who can say when we are to pay United States notes in coin, when on yesterda.y the Senator voted against even redeeming them in United States bonds? 

Mr. President, it eems to me that we are about to inflict a great 

evil upon the country, and especially upon the debtor class. What is 

tho fact in relation to the debtor class~ If gold is at 12 per cent. premium, we are making them pay interest on 12 per cent. more of 

principal than they would have to pay if they were on a specie-paying basis, and this just so long as a depreciated currency continues. I believe that we are inflicting a great evil upon the country, be- canso upon looking over the whole country- and as statesmen we are bound to lebrislate for the whole country- it seems to me that f,his recent panic has badly affected tho Senate, while it pervades only n. 

small portion of the country. Take the Pacific coast. The whole 

Pacific coast are in favor of a resumption of specie payments. Take 
1630 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. ],EBRUARY 19, 

the East; there is little more than one voice there in relation to it. Take the South; there is no portion of our country that is so well 

able to support a specie currency as the cotton-growing States: Their 

product is not only large, but it always commands specie. Then if 

we regard the evidence of the hoards of trade throughout the coun- try, I know of but a single exception, and that a very mild one, that 

ha not exhortecl us to take some steps in relation to an approach to a re umption of specie payments. They are all against expansion. 

If Senators who urge the inflation of the currency in order to 

increase business mean by that that we are to construct railroads, 

subsidized or not, where they are not needed, before they are wanted., 

they will find themselves very much mistaken. The cre<lit of rail- roads built into regions containing no population and containing no business, has received a shock from which it wHl not recover for 

years; and no matter how plentifully you make money, you cannot 

induce capitalists to embark and subscribe for bonds or for stock in 

railioads in sections of the country where they will not pay dividends 

when built. Under such circumstances, it seems to me utterly futile 

to attempt to revive merely speculative business by issuing a further 

amount of the national-bank ourency. And now a sin~le word in relation to the question of getting specie. 

It is a universal law of trade that gold will not circulate nlongside 

of depreciated. paper ; otherwise wherever gold is wanted. it will 

flow. It is impossible to prevent it; and if we were to take some steps, not now) of course, as early as the Senator from Indiana once proposed, July 1, 1871, for the reBumption of specie payments, but at some future day not too remote, I have no question of the ability of 

the banks or of the United States Government to do it. Of comse the United States Government would retire its le~al tender notes in 

bonds, and by the time those were retired the banu:s would be in full 

possession of all the goltl they needed. Take the banks of the city 

of New York; with $26,000,000 circulation, they have $09,000,000 of 

legal-tender notes on hand, and over $30,000,000 of coin. Are they 

not in a condition for resumption' Of course they are. But, Mr. President, I did not design to make a speech. I only 

desired to show, while I am proud to follow my friend from Indbna on many questions, that be was not infallible on the question of 

finance. Mr. MORTON. Mr. President, I do not profess to be infallible upon 

this or any other subject; and I will say frankly to my friend from 

Vermont that I have had occasion to change my views upon several 

questions in connection with it. I hope I learn something by experi- ence, observation, and reflection. But, sir, upon the particular point 

to which my friend refers I happen to be entirely consistent with 

Inyself. I was in 1869 in favor of declaring that the United States 

notes were to be paid in rrold ; and I will tell my friend. something, 

perhaps, that he does not how in "Tegard to that provision of the act 

of 1869 to strengthen the public credit, from which he has just read : 

.A.nd the Unitetl. States also solemnly pledges its faith to make provision at the 

earliest practicable period for the redemption of the United States notes in coi,n. 

I will say to my friend that I believe I am tlle author of tllat pro- vision of that act, and I am just as much in favor of it now as I was then. In the first remarks that I made at this session of Congre , on the financial resolution introduced by the Senator from Ohio, I used 

these words : 

I a~ree that the faith of this Government is pledged to redeem what are called 

greenl>acks in coin. I agree to that as fully and as strongly a-s anybody ; and I 

further agree that wo are to keep steadily in view what is caned a return to specie 

payments; but the question is, whether it is our uuty at this session of Congress. at this time, in the ~res nt condition of the country, to look to and adopt such 

mea13ures; and at this point I differ with the committee. 

.A.t the time tllat act was passed we were in the heyday of prosperity; we had, perhaps, as good times as this country has ever had. I thought 

it was a goocl time then to take some step in that direction. I had pre- viously brought forward a proposition myself to fix a day, some three 

years in advance, when the Government would begin the work of re- sumption, and I had proposed that the Government should do what was necesaary in order to redeem those notes in coin, that it should. begin 

to collect the gold for that purpose. I think my friend from Vermont 

then did not agree with me. Sir, the faith of the country was pledged 

from the beginning, and is pledged to-day, to redeem these notes in 

coin; but who is there now proposing to do it¥ 

Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. I will say to the Senator that I think 

he will fmd that I have never been opposed to a return to specie payments. Mr. MORTON. \Vho is now proposing to redeem that pledge¥ My 

friend introduced a bill. Did ho propose to redeem those notes in coiu 1 

Not a bit of it. The Senator from Ohio [Mr. SHER;\IA ] introduced a bill. Did he propose to redeem those notes in coin¥ Not a bit of 

it. He proposed to redeem them in coin or in a bond, giving the 

Government the preference of paying in a bond, well knowing t.he 

Government had not the gold, and his bill made no provision for 

getting the gold, or even for keeping the surplus in the Treasury for 

that purpose. :Mr. :MORRILL, of Vermont. The Senator will remember that my 

bill proposed that the Government should issue bonus and obtain the 

gold to ~edeem the notes. Mr. MORTON. That is the fact ·about my friend:s bill. The Sen- ator from New Jersey [~fr. 'I! RELINGHUYSEN] introduced a bill proposing to isaue three hundred million or four hundred million bonds 

to buy gold to redeem tho greenbacks. The Seu:1tor from Ma.ssachu.- setts r fr. BoUTWELL] showetl, at least, I thougllt·, tolerably c~early, 

that that could not be done. I never believed that that thing was practicable. I bad always supposed from the first-that was my itlea 

in 1868-that the Government must collect the ?cold gradually until 

it got a quantity that would authorize it to say, 'We will begin at a certain time to redeem our notes." My friend. from New Jersey, I 

think, at that time did not agree with me about it. b-fr. FRELINGHUYSEN. The Senator from Indiana is in enor as to the measure which I intro<luced. It was to authorize the Secretary 

of the Treasury to purchase gol<l, and to supply him with bonds not 

exceeding the amom1t of two hundred millions for that purpose. Mr. MORTON. Certainly to purchase gold to redeem the notes, 

and thut was the particular point that was answered by the Senator 

from Ma-ssachusetts, showing that that thing could not be done. Now my friend from Vermont has referred to another thing. In 1868 

and 1869 I did aTgue on this floor that the Government had the right to use the originullegal-tender notes, issued before the bonds were is ue<l, with which the bonds were bought from the Government at par, and 

which on their face <lecla.recl that they were a legal tender in payment 

of all debts, public and private, except for two things, interest on the 

bonds and duties on imports. I did a1·gue that by the plainest :w.cl most 

direct provision of the law the Government had the right to use those same notes in the pa.yment of those bonds. All the lawyers and all the 

courts arguing from now till doomsday, can never disprove the right of 

the Government to do it. But there was a vast interest aga,in.st it, and no one took a more active part than my friend from Vermont in bringing 

about a different construction of the law. That wa the great blunder of this Government, that has cost it hundreds of millions of dollars. But for that the greenbacks would be at par to-day, and would 

have been years ago. The Government dishonored its own promise; 

the Government violated the law of the creation of these greenbacks 

for a purpose; I will not say it was not patriotic, but it was as clear an infraction of the law as ever was made by a government or private 

individual. That is ov~r and gone. By the act of 1869 that question was settled. I have never aid. a word about it since ; it is too lat e now to refer to it; but I still insist that that was the greatest financial blunder ever committed by this Government. But let that pass, 

1\fr. President. 

Congress declined in good times, and when it seemed to me that the 

opportunity was fair, to ma.ke any provision for a return to specie 

payments; but just as soon as-- · Mr. SHERMAN. Will the Senator allow me a word as to the point 

he has just spoken of V 

l\fr. MORTON. Yes, sir. Mr. SHERMAN. The Senator refers to the circumstances which 

gave rise to the act of 1869. I ask him whether, as a correlative proposition to that which relieved the bondholders from any fear that 

they might be paid in greenbacks, there was not incorporated in that 

act the specific pledge of the public fa.ith that the greenbacks them- selves should be, as soon as practicable, made equal to coin¥ I usk 

him whether those two propositions did not go hand in hand 'I I say 

to him, what I know to be a fact, that the proposition to require the 

Government to pay the bonds only in coin ancl not in greenbacks 

could. never have passedCongre s, in my judgment, bntforthesolemn 

pledge accompa,nying the same bill that the notes would be paid in 

coin at the eru:liest practicable period. 

I will ask my friend another question : whet,her at the time we made 

this pledge, seeking to bring both bonds and. notes to gold, it wa.s not 

expected that in two or three years, at the utmost, the pledge would be 

redeemed' 

:Mr. MORTON. I t.hink that was the expectation at that time. I 

then thought that could be clone; but I believe there wa.s no purpo e, 

at least there was no fixed attempt on the part of my friend, the 

chairman of the committee, at that time, in that auspicious period., to 

bring about a return to specie payments . .1\fr. SHER:J\.lli~. Let me correct the Senator. On the contrary, my 

friend will find that at the very next session of Congress I introduced a bill, and from that time to this have been every se sion day by day 

demanding that the Government should keep its promise to the note- holder, having fulfilled its obligations to the bondholder. Mr. MORTON. What I have said. is, that thisse sion, upon the top 

of a panic, when our industries were greatly depres ed, and a large 

portion of the people of tho country suffering from the effect of the 

panic, was not the time to enter upon the resumption of specie pay- ments. · One word in answer to this bugbear now about inflation. I think 

I am somewhat justified. in calling it a bugbear. In the first place, we were tolU. at the beginning of this discussion that the twenty-five 

millions provided for in this bill would not be taken in two years; that 

the premium on the bonds was such, ancl the condition of things in tho 

West and South such, that twenty-five millions of c4·culation would 

not be taken in two years, and that long before it was taken there 

would. be ample opportunity to make further provision for banking 

capital, if it were desired. Then we were told right on the heels of 

that, that New England had taken this excess, not because she wanted 

it, not because it was profitable, but because she was clriven into it by 

the act of C~ngressbxing the State banks out of existence; and a bill was made to us by the Senator from Rhode Island [ Ir. ANTHOXY] 

upon that ground, that it was not particularly profitable to New Eng-
1874 .. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1631 

land; she did not care a, bout it, but she had been driven into it. • .And 

then we were told by the Sen::ttor from Maine., [Ur. HAML~,] ::tnd the 

argument went all around horo-I think my frieucl from Ohio himself 

used it-tha,t n:ttional banking was not particularly profitable; that 

there wa.s only about 1t or perhaps 2 per cent. profit made on the cir- culation; t.h::tt was no particular inducement to go into it; but when 

the proposition for free banking is bronght forward, then the whole 

tide of argument turns in the other direction; then it is so profitable, 

there are such large inducements, that national banks will be estab- lished to the extent of the whole amount of the bonds ::tvailable for 

that purpose. 

Mr. President, that position, in my opinion, is unsound. If the other 

arguments were true, of course it is unsound. National banks will 

not be established except where it is believed they will be profitable, 

and where there is a. local wa,nt for them. There are places in Indiana where there is not a. bank within thirty miles now, with large population; there a.re places in Iowa, I presume, where there is not a bank 

in forty or fifty miles; a.nd so in Missouri, and so in illinois, and so in 

all these We tern States. Wo have towns now of two or three thou- sand inha.bitants without a bank, towns rapidly growing; and they 

cannot get banks. The States cannot give t hem to them; the General Government will not give them to them. Here are these local 

wants. We wish to supply them; but we aro told that we shall not 

do it; that this is a cast-iron system, and must remain just as it is. That is what we aro complaining about; and I will say to my friend 

from Ohio that these questions are entirely divisible. The question 

of distributing the benefits of the national banking system is a. thing 

entirely separate and apart from the question of the resumption of 

specie payments. If you resume specie payments to-morrow we still 

ought to have the means of equalizing the benefits of this national 

banking system; and every community in Ohio, Incli::tna, illinois, Iowa, or elsewhere that has now come to the point t hat they want a ba.nk 

onght to haye some means of getting it. Now they have not; and 

my friend's bill refuses to supply them. As I had occasion to say 

before, of the twenty-five millions not a dollar will go to a single 

Northwestern State. l\Ir. President, as was said last night by the Senator from fa.ssa- chusett.s, [1\lr. BOUTWELL, ] as you increase the number of banks you 

increase t he uemand for legal-tender notes. As the law now stamls 

they must have 15 per cent. of r eserve on their circulation for country 

b::tnks ancl15 per cent. on their deposits, which will make an average 

of from 25 to 30 per cent. I suppose-! h ave not looked at the figures-there are now $100,000,000 of greenbacks in the vaults of the 

banks heltl as reserve. Mr. ALLISON. One hundred and ten million dollars by the report 

of the Comph·oUer. . Mr. l\IORTON. My friend from Iowa says $110,000,000; therefore 

of the volume of greenbacks, now some $375,000,000, $110,000,000 are helcl in the vaults of the banks out of circulation, because they are held as a reserve. As you increase the number of banks you increase 

the difficulty of gettingthese reserves. You make a newdemandfor 

greenbacks. Yon do not cheapen the greenbac~s, but you increase 

their value, because you create a new demand for them. Yon do not 

increa-se the number of promises that the Government is pledged to 

redeem in coin. The Government is pledged, we will say, to redeem 

these notes in coin; you do not increase that difficulty at all, but you 

contribute to bring np the value of these notes a.s you increase the 

demand for them; aml thus you diminish the difference between their 

value and the value of coin. fr. SCHURZ. The Senator from Indiana will perhaps permit me to ask him a question-not a question put for the purpose of interfering 'vith his argument, but purely to get some information from 

him. He tells us that the organization of national banks in audition 

to the number of national banks we have now, and the issue of cur- rency over and above the amount now outstanding, and perhaps over and above the amount•of greenbacks out, will have. the etfect of 

appreciating the greenbacks. Th:tt is t.he way I understand him; 

because the greenbacks are needed as a reserve. Am I correct ' 

Mr. MORTON. That was my argument, undoubtedly. Mr. SCHURZ. Now, I should like to know whether, in the Senator's opinion, if we should carry the issue of national-bank notes sa.y 

to about $800,000,000, to double the amount of greenbacks outstanding, the appreciation of greenbacks would bo so great as to create a. difterence in the current value of greenbacks and national-bank 

notes' I as ure the Senator from Indiana that this question is put 

in perfect good faith, and not to lead him into a snare. Mr. MORTON. I will say to my friend that if the amount of nation:tlbank notes was iucrea ed to $800,000,000, in my opinion it would lead · to the wincling up of tho national banks, because they could not, with- out too much expense, procure the notes in which the:v were bound to 

redeem theirs ; because whenever you get the amount of nationalbank notes to :tny considerable extent above tho volume outstanding 

of legal-tender note , there will become a difference in value such as to make it profitable to run the national-bank notes home and get the 

legal-tenuers in place of them ; and that of itself will prevent the 

extension of the baukin~ system, aa a matter of course. Mr. SCHURZ. Now, if I understand tho opinion of the Senator it 

is tills : that as soon as the volume of the national-bank notes issued 

exceeds the number of greenba~ks in circulation, then the greenback 

will appreciate in proportion to the national-bank notes, In otber 

words, that the current value of greenbacks will be greater than that 

of n::ttional-bank notes. Is t hat it; and that therefore, in issuing 

national-bank notes redeemable in greenbacks, we have to confine om- solves strictly to the number of greenbacks out f Is that the SenatmJs 

opinion f 

Mr. MORTON. I did not say "strictly." I did not say dollar for 

dollar. 

Mr. SCHURZ. Say materially, virtually. 

Mr. l\IORTON. What I said was, that whenever the volume of 

nation:tl-bank notes exceeded to any considerable degree the volume of 

legal-tenders, the difficulty of procuring legal-tenders as reserves and 

for the purpose of redeeming the bank-notes would be enough to 

make it profitable for brokers to speculate in legal-tenuer notes, and 

that that would be an effectual prohibition to the fmther extension 

of the national banking system. vVe h ave experience which shows us that in regard to banks of another character--

Mr. SCHURZ. If I may continue this conversation, which I hope 

the Senator from Indiana considers as pleasant as I do my elf, then 

if there were, say, some $500,000,000 or $600,0001000 of national-bank 

notes out, to prevent the difficulties which nece sarily would arise 

by the disproportion between greenbacks and nation:tl-bank notes, 

and in order to restore the necessary equilibriun1, it would render necessary the emission of a further amount of greenbacks iu oruer to 

keep afloat the national-bank circulation. Would not that be it Y 

Or it would necessitate the withdrawal of the national-bank circulation in excess of the amount of greenbacks out. Is not that about it f 

Mr. MORTON. What does the Senator mean when he says" is not 

that about it 'I" It would r equire an act of Congress to do' it, ~­

tloubtetliy. 

Mr. SCHURZ. · Precisely the question I put to the Senator is this: 

Whether this proposition is correct in his opinion Y 

Mr. MORTON. Mr. President, as long as Congresslimitsthe num- ber of greenbacks to be issued-a thing that Congre may perhaps 

trust itself with-that of itaelf necessarily fixes a limitation to the 

extension of the national banking system, so that its issues cannot 

go far beyond the volume of the greenbacks. I do not believe myself 

that it would extend more than forty, fifty, sixty, or seventy millions. Certainly I do not believe it would go to the extent of one hundreu 

millions. I do not think the demands of the country now require :1 

greater increase of the curreucy than that. 

lr. SCHURZ. Will the Senator permit me another question f 

1\Ir . .MORTON. Yes. 

J\Ir. SCHURZ. If the Senator believes that it will go farther than 

that., why not fix the limit 1 llnt leaving that aside, there was another 

question I wanted to a.sk the Senator. Is it the opinion of the Senator that an increase of the nationa,l-bank circulation would have the 

effect of raising the prE~miurn on gold-I mean a considerable increase, 

the greenback circulation remaining the same~ 

Mr. MORTON. I think not at all. .An increase of the greenback 

circulation to anyconsitlerable extent perhaps would; but an increa e of national-bank notes to be redeemed in greenbacks, while the vol- ume of greenbacks is held steady, certainly would not increa e the 

premium on gold. I think it would have the other effect, by increa - ing tho demand for greenback , and making them thus that much more valuable ; and that brings me to a thought which I may as well 

express now. I believe the emission of twenty-seven millions of 

legal-tender notes by the Secretary of the Treasury since the panic 

has not had an appreciable effect in increasing the preminm on gold. 

It bas relieved the condition of the country. Some of. my frienus 

here are not willing to admit the extent of that relief; but I think 

that is one of the most beneficial thin~s that have been done by this 

Government. I approve it; I indorse 1t wholly; and I call the attention of my friend from Vermont to the fact that when we provided 

for the issue of :fifty-four millions of national-bank notes in 1870, 

that did not increase the premium on gold then; but, on the contrary, 

the premium on gold declined. Nor do I believe that the issue of 

forty, fifty, or seventy-five millions of national-bank notes can have 

any effect upon the premium on gold, except to reduce it by increas- ing the U.emand for g1·een backs . .Mr. SCHURZ. The Senator ays that the effect of the emission of 

abont twenty-five miUions of ~rcenbacks has not been to increase the 

premium on gold. Why, one tning is certain-that gold has gone up, 

since the <.lay it reached its lowest point, about 6 per cent. I think it 

is now about 12 . 

Mr. ALLISON. It was 11 the day before tho panic. 

fr. MORTON. Aml two or three months before the panic it was 1t;. In the om·ly part of last spring I think it was 18. Mr. SCHURZ. It was 18 in April. 

Mr. MORTON. So far as the price of gold is concerned, I will say 

to my friend that during the panic there was no market for gold. 

People did not want it. You could not sell gold in the market; you 

could not even borrow greenbacks with it. The demand then was for greenbacks; the demand was for currency ; antl so far from tho 

panic depreciating our currency-and that shows the sotmdness of 

it-the value of the currency WM increased by the panic aml there 

w::ts no market for golcl at all, and gold was sold as low as 7 per cent. because there was no demand for it. And yet we hear the currency constantly slandered. as the great curse of the country. In t.ho time 

of a panic, and a bad panic, the premium on go1<.1 goes <.lown and the 

value of currency appreciates; anu yet we are told that is an argn-
1632 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

ment showing the immediate necessity of returning to specie payments. It only calls me back to a position that I made in answer to 

my friend some time ago on this floor, that the effect of panics was not to demand gold, but it was to demand the suspension of the pay- ment of gold by the banks, which has very nearly always been t.he 

ca e. Mr. SCHURZ. I may remind my friend from Indiana of the answer that I gave to him, that since suspension is such a perfect remedy for 

panics, it is perfectly astonishing how, having been in a suspended 

condition for the last eleven years, and the remedy having been 

applied without intermission during that period, we could have had a panic at all after the medicine was administered to us long before 

the disease broke out. 1\Ir. MORTON. That is only an answer in phraseology." It is not an answer in substance at all. I never said that suspension would 

prevent all panics. I did argue, and I proved it too, that specie pay- ments did not prevent panics j' that in point of fact, to come right 

down to the naked history, there had been more panics under specie 

payments than there had · been under-other circumstances, and that 

the worst panics which had occurred in England and in this country were when the banks were paying specie, and there was no suspicion 

of their unsoundness either ; so that my friend's answer was an an- swer in words and not in substance. My frien<l understands very 

well the force of language, and how to make an apparent metaphys- ical point when there is nothing absolutely in what he says; and I say 

that in all kindness. 

Mr. SCHURZ. No,v, I think I cannot let this provocation go unan- swered. I thank the Senator for his compliment, but I think there was a little more in my answer than mere language. Th.e Senator has 

been arguing before us all the time that a condition of specie payments is such as is most apt to bring about panics. He has been argu- ing also that a suspension of specie payments is the. best remedy that can be invented for panics. Now, when tl1is last panic broke out, we were not in a condition of specie payments, as t he Senator is well 

aware, but for eleven years we had been under suspension ; and yet, as I expressed it, although the medicine had been applied constantly 

for eleven years, it did not prevent the breaking out of the disease. M:r. MORTON. I said all that myself. I said suspension was not an infallible remedy against panics. Mr. SCHURZ. Then we are better agreed than before. :Mr. MORTON. We do not disagree in substance, when my friend comes down to it, because he cannot controvert, and he has not conh·overted, the soundness of the positions I took in the first argument tllat I 

made upon this subject. So far as the play of words is concerned, I 

always yield the palm to my friend. 

But, 1't1r. President, I do not want to take up the time of the Senate; 

I simply want to say that there are two questions before the country. 

The first is the question of resumption. I said in the beginning of 

this session that I hardly thought this was the time to consider that 

question; at least I did not think it was an auspicious time. I said 

in the speech I have before me, made on the 20th of December, that 

if we provided for resumption at this session of Congress, we ought 

to put it off so long that it would not alarm the country, and would 

not embarrass the commerce, the trade, and the industries of the 

country. That is what I said then. But there is another question 

upon us now, that has been growing for years past and is growing 

to-day; and that is the demand in many parts of this country for bank 

facilities that are now absolutely withheltl from them. You cannot 

make one of these que tions an excuse for not answering the other. 

The proposition of the Senator from Pennsylvania now is to answer the one, to provide by free banking for giving to every part of the 

country facilities, if they want them and are prepared to take them. That is a separate and di.~tinct question from the other. nut when we come to that, we have the other tlu:ust in our face and presented 

a>S a reason why no action should be taJren in this db:ection, and we are told that things must remain just as they are until we get to specie payments. Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. Mr. President, I now have the passage 

in the Globe before me that I referred to when I was up before. :Mr. SCHURZ. Allow me to ask the Senatorfrom Vermont toyield 

to me a moment. I wish to say one word in reference to the last 

statement of the Senator from Indiana. He says that we are insist- ing, with regard to the extension of banking facilities, tha.t things 

must remain just as they are until we return to specie payments. 

Now, it is very well known on this floor that we are not insisting upon 

anything of the kind. On the contrary, it has been advocated on our side all the time while this bill ha.s been before the Sena,te to take 

away a certain .amount of circulation from the New England States 

and distribute it in the West and South. The Senator from Ohio, • the chairman of the Committee on Finance, proposed in his bill tweutyii.ve millions; an amendment was introduced raising that amop.nt to 

:fifty millions. So it cannot be said that we have been insisting upon letting things remain just as they are. Mr. MORTON. l\Iy answer to my friend is just this, that tho re- distribution of twenty-five millions will leave at least twelve States 

entirely untouched. They would not get one cent from it, and so far as those States are concerned the bill does insist, in sullstance, that 

things shall remain as they are ; and some of those twelvo States are among the most prosperous and growing States in the Union·, whose 

wants are rapidly increasing. 

ir. SCHURZ. Well, sir, there is an amendment before the Senate 

increasing the amount to fifty millions, and the Senator has been telfing us just now in his speech that he does not believe that the in- crease of national-bank currency, in consequence of the passage of a free-banking act, wm exceed forty or fifty million dollars. . ~!r. MORRILL, of Vermont. When I was addre ing the Senate a few moments ago I referred to a passage in a speech of the Senator from Indiana in 1 70, wherein he seemed to be content with a much 

less figure than he is now as to this twenty-five million distribution. 

On the 25th of January, 1870, I find these words. After alluding to 

the bill for $30,000,000 to be taken from the Eastern States and distributed, he said: 

If this is to be a substitute for the other bill, then it docs not go far enou~h. If 

it is intended as supplemental to the other bill, aml the amount of $45,000,000 1s fixed 

under the expect,a.tion that the other bill is to be passed in the House, then it does 

go, perhaps, far enough, and perhaps further than some might insist upon going. 

Not only that bill for "45,000,000, but in compliance with the argu- ment of the Senator from Indiana that it ought to be made 9,000,UOO more in order to offset for there. erve, we clid pass a bill of $54,000,UOO, 

and that has been all issued as I understand; and, in addition totha.t, 

the ~2;),000,000 bill for distribution was passed. The latter not being 

practically operative, we brought in a bill at this ses ion to make it 

operative, and in addition to all that, 27,000,000 more of the so-called reserve have been issued by the Treasury Department. And in the same speech already mentioned the S euator sai(.l this: 

While I have been steadily opposed to the e:l.'])ansion of the currency ever since 

I have had tho honor to bo a member of this bouy, I have always been opposed to contraction, and I think the sense of Congress has been expressed time and again within the last three years against the contraction of the cuuency. 

Now, Mr. President, after having conceded all that the Senator 

asked in 1870, and after decla.ring his opposition to expansion, the 

Senator to-day is even more eager and cries, "Give, give," all the 

time for more currency. The Senator is mistaken in supposing that 

the question of distribution would be left open after a resumption of 

opecie payments. Upon a resumption of specie payments there would 

be no objection in any part of the country to free banking, and, of 

course, that question would not be still left open. It would settle 

and adjust the question at once. The Senator made a remark in relation to the issue of the fifiiv-fonr millions, that it did not at that time increase the premium on~ gold ; 

and why Y Let me answer. Because that issue was a sub titute for 

the 3 per cent. certificates then used as a part of the reserves of the 

banks, and answering all the purposes of currency. The Senator from Indiana is a gentleman whose views are so important .to the country that he is interdewed, and I find that a cor- respondent of the -New York Herald interviewed him November 30, looo, and here is what is reported of that interview : 

I have been misrepresented as to my exact views, but I shall be happy to give 

you a correct understanding of them. I propose to return to specie pa.vnients, and 

contemplate fixing the time by law, say the 1st of Januar·y or July, 1871, for begin· 

ning the redemption of the greenback currency; and this for several reasons. I am opposed tQ further contraction until redemption begins. 

Then, as a further illustration of the Senator's position, he wrote a letter to the New York World of the same date, November 30,1868, in 

explanation of his financial views, and he said : 

What I urged during the canvass was that the first duty of the Government was to return to SIJecie payments, which, when a{)Complished, would settle all questions a~ to the payment of the bonus. 

I only bring up these records to show that the Senator from Indiana 

is alwa~"S earnest in urging and promulgating his views, and that if 

he is urgent to-day, he was no less urgent six years ago. It seems to me with my limited comprehension, that there is somewhat of a cMerence between his position to-day and that of six years ago, 

although he assures us that there is not; and. of course I am bound to 

believe him, and not the record. I take it that he is, like my friend 

from Pennsylvania, utterly opposed to any inflation, but he wants a further supply. And hereafter, when anybody is found in a state of 

inflation from having taken a little too ·much of the ardent, it will 

not be said that he is inflated; only that he has a good supply. [Laughter.] 

1\Ir. MORTON. Mr. President, I am especially gratified by there- marks of my friend from Vermont. He has paid me a very high corp.-

plimeut. Ho has shown that he thinks my record is of sufficient 

importance for him to keep well posted in it, and he has also shown 

that he is a diligent reader of the New York Herald and of the New 

York World, and that he keeps files of those newspapers to which he can refer on occasion. I want to say to my friend as to that interview, although I have no recollection about it now, I think the statement of it is correct, because the reporters of tho New York Herald 

\ery seldom make mistakes on such subjects; but at the date of t.hat 

interview in 186" the time was much more auspicious for returning 

to specie payment , or at lea.'Ot for taking tho :first step, than it is now. Then there was no panic upon the country; there were uni versa! good 

times, and the utmost confidence was prevailing everywhere. I pro- posed to fix the time some three years in advance, and th:1>t the Government should collect the gold, not by selling bonds as it is propo ed 

to do now, but that the Government, instead of selling gold in t he 

market from time to time, should keep its gold until it had on han<l a quantity that woukl authorize it to say to the country, "We are prcpal'!Jd to begin the de~ption of our notes in coin." I always 
• 

1874: c ·oNGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1633 

thought that that was the sensible way. But gentlemen have now found out a patent way for returning to specie payments. My friend 

from Ohio has discovered that the way to redeem the notes in coin is 

to redeem them in bbnds by another promise to pay. There is a great 

thirst for bonds. The Senator from New J ersey [Mr. FREUNGHOYSEN] proposes to issue bonds; my. friend from Vermont [Mr. MoRRILL] propo es to issue bonds. _ It all looks. in the direction of an increase of the bonded debt of t ,hecountry. Thattheyseemtoregard as the great panace~ of our ills; to resurri.e specie payments by paying 

in bonds. 

Now, one word in regard to the extract read from my speech in 

1870. What was the proposition .at that time 'f It :was to equalize 

the distribution then by taking $25,000,000 from the East and anding 

it to the $54,000,000 of new notes, making $79,000,000. That wa-s thought to be necessary in 1870, fully four years ago. In 1870 it was thought that that would perhaps equalize the currency sufficiently at 

that time; but that wa,a not carried out, and now four years have 

elapsed of unprecedented growth, and a number of States have added 

million to their population and millions to their wealth, and yet we are told that we must be held to this estimate fixed in 1870, when 

it is notoriously inadequate. . _ I say again these two questions are artfully confounded all the 

time. The . question of resumption and the question of equalizing 

the benefit of the national banking system are artfully confounded. 

They have no necessary connection with each other. Let us take one 

at a time. _ . . . Mr. SHERMAN. I should like to ask the Senator a question. He 

says now that he desires to equalize the currency. If the Senator 

desires to equalize the currency, why not take the bill reported by the 

committee, an<l that is still the text of this whole debate 'f Increase 

the amount named in it if you will, and I have no doubt the majority 

will probably vote with hi.in 011 that point; but pass the bill and it 

will equalize the currency. 

Mr. MORTON. What bill f . . 

Mr. SHERMAN. The bill for the $25,000,000 redistribution; in- crease the amount if you will. The proposition now. pending ands to 

the inequality. The statement made by the honorable Senator from 

Maine [Mr. HAMLIN] yesterday is true. The New England States, 

probably two of them, Rhode Island and ¥assachusetts, will take more bank stock unaer this measure, threefold, than all the cotton 

States combined; and the State of New York and the Eastern States 

that already have a surplus will take more bank stock under this sys- tem of free bank:i.Iig as now proposed than all the West and South 

combined. So that the Senator addS to the inequality, and he makes 

this local complaint only more grievous. If the Senator really wants to carry out the idea he now puts forward, if he wants to equalize the currency, he can do it by passing 

the original bill. The Senator from Maine said that he for one would 

rather you would take the whole ba'nk circulation from his region of 

country, make the equalization go to the iull extent of the $80,000,000 

of which certain fStates have an excess, than to vote for this increase 

of paper money. N9, sir, the idea is not to equalize the currency; 

that is not the object of this proposition. If that is what you want, 

the way is plain and simple before you; all you have to do is to go 

ba-ck to the original bill, and pa.ss .a bill that will equalize the cur- rency; withdraw from the States that have an excess and give to the 

South and West as much as they want, an~ as fast as they want it. 

That is not the p'urpose of this measure. That is not the purpose of 

the Senator from Indiana and his friends. If it is, 'there is a plain and 

easy way to do it. They have the power .now to equalize the cur- rency if they want to do it. A bill is pending that will provid~ all 

they want for two years ; and if that is not enough, take more, take 

the whole amount of excess; and that surely equalizes the currency. 

But that is not the proposition. _ My friend cannot now say that all this movement to inflate the 

currency is merely to equalize the currency. Those who vote for the 

pending proposition desire to kill and defeat the bill for equalizing the 

currency. Sir, I intend now and hereafter to show that this attempt 

to make a local grievance the ground of a national calamity is entirely 

unjustifiable. You have it in your power, I tell my friend from Indiana, now to equalize the currency on the basis of existing laws, not 

only to the amount of twenty-five millions, but to the amount of 

seventy-five millions. When you have tbe power to do that, you come forward ana say, "No ; we will not exercise this power; we will 

authorize New England to issue more paper money, New York to 

issue more paper mon;ey, the. West and, the South to issue more, with no limit or restraint." Sir, it is idle for these gentlemen to talk to us about equalizing bank currency. That if? what we desired to do; 

that is what we sought to do. We sought to go as far as there was occa.sion1 to go to the extent .of twenty-five millions; but the very 

proposition made by us to etirllllizE! the ctiiTency is' made the· basis of an inflation· of the currency; . Why, air, let me say to Senators now in all seriousness that this 

proposition to invite all the capitalist of this country to put their 

money into bonds of tbe United States, and with those bonds to get 

an almost equal amount' of paper money, is t'o invite from all the 

industrial interests of the country great masses o£ capital and put it 

where it can ~uplicate its power, receive interest on its original 

amount and interest on as ~uch more paper m01iey. But it is said 

that capitalists will not do it, that they wHl not buy bonds.: Let me 

103 

tell you, Senl:l.tors, they will buy bonds; or rather those who have tho 

bonds will get the benefit of this circulation, aud those who have not 

got the bonds will only have to pay a higher price for them. 

This measure is deceptive to the West and South for a double rea- son. This propo ition of the Senator from Pennsylvania, without 

the redemption, will add to the value of the bonds, will depreciate the 

value of your greenbacks; and then when greenbacks are to be u ed 

for the purcha-se of bonds you will have to pay a higher price for the 

bonds. Thus the bondholders, the capitalists, will get an increase<l 

price for their bonds if they are sold at all ; but they can take thol:le 

bonds ancl deposit them safely in the Treasury of the United State 

without risk, Without danger, without redemption, without f ear that 

they Will be taken or impaired, and then they can draw out of t.h€1 

Treasury of the United States the notes of the United State , for 

which the United States are bound, to the amount of 90 per cent. of 

their bonds, and when they have received those notes they can loan 

them at 10 per cent. to the people of the South and West. Yes, sir ; 

the bondholder now in possession of a bond of the United States 

may take his bond and file it with the Treasury, put it in the custody 

of the Treasury of the United States, draw his interest regularly, 

quarterly according to law, receive all the interest that the Government agreed to pay him in gold, and then he may receive 90 per cent. 

of that bond in circulation, and issue that and loan it at 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, or 20 per cent. to the people of the West and South. How long will 

such a system of inflation exist 'f 

I tell Senators that the passage of this measure, as now offered, un- legs you add to it some provision for the redemption of these notes, 

is the death-knell of the national banks. As sure as fate, when the 

people begin to inquire, "Why give this franchise to capitalists; why 

enable banks aBd capitalists to issue their promises to pay without 

any burden of redemption; why shall not the people exercise this 

power f If more money is desirable, if .that is the only thing, and 

there is no question as to the character of money, why not the United 

States issue the money T Sir, unless the burden of redemption is car- ried on the face of every bank-bill, there is no ans~er to the .argu- ment. If bank-notes and United States notes are not to be redeemed 

either in coin or bonds, if they are neither redeemable nor convertible, then there is no reason in the world why you shall have n ationalbank notes at all. Why not issue your greenbacks ; why not follow 

the example of our revolutionary fathers; why not follow the ex- ample of the French and other nations th.at have issu~d irredeemable paper money, and let the people enjoy the profit T But, sir, if 

you ada to the proposition something that will make these banks 

redeem their promises, make them as good as gold, or as near to it as public policy will allow, then you add that burden which is the only 

restraint on an irredeemable paper money. Senators, with my strong 

convictions on this subject, I can scarcely venture to express my ideas. Mr. MORTON. Mr. President, if I have been misunderstood by the 

Senator, I am sure he is the only one on this floor. In what I said 

about equalizing the currency, I said I wanted the West and the South 

to be suj>plied, ;not by robbing the East, but by giving to them what 

they needed. I could not have been misunderstood on that point. 

The Senator is willing that we shall take $75,000,00Q, if need be, from 

the East to ~qualize the currency. His argument certainly meant 

that; and the Senator from Missouri expressed himself in favor of 

$50,000,000.if that was necessary, a little while ago. These are magnificent offers to give away $75,000,000 of other people's property to 

vindicate a principle. It is on the principle of Artemus Ward, who was willing to sacrifice all his wife's relations for the purpose of preserving the Union, [Laughter.] And weknowthereisamagnificent case recorded in the New Testament where a large offer of other people's property was made on certain terms and conditions. Here is an offer of from twenty-five to seventy-five millions of the bank currency 

of New England to vindicate a great principle! 

Mr. SHERMAN. And yet my friend was the first one to offer this 

identical proposition in 1870. 

Mr. MORTON. I do not remember that I was. I think my friend 

is mistaken about that. But it has gone by, and that is a dead letter; and I think no member of this Senate believes that 25,000,000 

will ever be taken from New England and given to the West and 

South. The idea of taking $50,000,000 and giving it to the West and 

South is a perfect sham. It will never be done. Nobody expects it 

to be done. It is a mere delusion which is being held out for the pmpose of preserving things in their present condition. I am willing to 

deal with practical questions, but I think tl).ere is nobody in this 

country who believes that $25,000,000 or 10,000,000 will be taken 

from one State and given to another. Tl;le people of the State from 

which it is taken will regard it as an act of spoliation and robbery, 

I do not care what their Senators _may say on this floor; it will be 

resisted; it will be resisted by lawsuits; it will be resisted in every 

way. There is ~ plain and. fair courseJ and that is to allow the people 

of the West and South, wherever t hey want a bank in my State, in 

Iowa, or elsewhere, to come and get that bank upon the same terms 

with others. These dangers of in~ation are gross e~aggerations. 

Mr. LOGAN. Allow me-to make a suggestion to the Senator in that 

connection Y 

Mr. MORTON. Certainly. • . , .. Mr. LOGAN. HQwis ittha.tthe SenatorfromOhio reconciles these 

two pllopositions : first, in his argument some days ago, he did not be- lieve the twenty-five millions tha;t are to be distributed by being 
·-

1634 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

taken from the East and divided between the West and South, would 

be taken up in two years Y I believe he stated that. 

1\fr. SHERMAN. Yes, sir . .Mr. LOGAN. If the distribution of $25,000,000 would not be taken 

up in two years, how cau it be that if we pass a law so that anybody can take it, it will ruin the whole country in six months Y 

Mr. SHERMAN. I thought when my friend from Indiana made 

that argument the other day it needed no answer; but my friend 

from Maine answered it perfectly. In the West and South we all know 

they have not the capital to invest in national banks, and we know 

they cannot do it. Their means are employed in agricultural pursuits, 

and other pursuits, and they have not the surplus capital and bonds 

to enable them to engage in banking. But make the opportunity to 

bank free all over the United States, and it will be availed of by men in New England and New York, where they have large accumulations 

of capital and you will have plenty of banks organized. 

Mr. LOGAN. Then I will ask, in connection with that, how the Senator reconciles these arguments Y He says that it takes a way from New 

England because New England has an excess of circulation more than 

is needed, and distributes it to the West; and in the next breath he 

says New England will issue millions more. Mr. SHERMAN. I reconcile the positions in this way: I think it is 

but fair and right to all portions of the country that each portion 

should have a certain part of the bank circulation according to the 

ratio fixed by law, and the distribution of that sum is an arbitrary 

distribution; but, on thewhole, it is fair-one half accordinO'\o population, and the other half according to productions and wea,th. As 

long as the western and southern sections want any portion of this 

bank circulation, they ought to have it up to that proportion; and if 

the East have, by a misconstruction of the law, more than they ought 

to have, it is better to withdraw it. 

Mr. LOGAN. One other question and I am through, for I do not 

want to discuss the matter. In the argument that the Senator made 

the other day to the Senate he insisted that the faith of the Government was pledged, and ought to be irrevocably so, that they never would issue more than $400,000,000 of gree;nbacks. I believe that was the argument. A moment ago he asked, if we want to inflate 

the currency, why not issue greenbacks instead of national-bank currency! How does he reconcile that! 

Mr. SHERMAN. Did the Senator suppose I was in favor of issuing 

greenbacks t 

Mr. LOGAN. If you were not, I do not see why you should suggest 

to the Senate to do that in place of the other. I want to see the positions reconciled ; that is all. 

Mr. SHERMAN. I am opposed to both until we come back to the 

coin standard. I said, if I had to choose between two evils, I greatly 

preferred to violate the obligation that we made in 1869, in one particular, by giving the benefit to the United States of issuing the cur- rency, rather than violate the same obligation in an indirect way by 

issuing more irredeemable paper currency, or redeemable only in 

greenbacks. There was no inconsistency in my positions. Sir, the 

only consistent position in the whole matter is to repeal all these 

limitations and regulations about the distribution of bank circulation, 

and require these banks to redeem their notes in coin, or, for the 

pre ent, until coin can be accumulated, in bonds of the United States. 

[Mr. BOGY addressed the Senate. His remarks will appear in the 

Appendix.] · 

Mr. FLANAGAN. Mr. President, I must beg a few minutes to avail 

myself of the opportunity to compliment my distinguished friend 

from Missouri [Mr. BOGY J for theveryeloquentand enlightened speech 

that he h~s delivered to the Senate. Certainly I have been delighted · to hear him. His manner, his ideas, and all, are impre ive, delightful, 

and clear. I am told that "an honest confession is good for the soul." 

He has come near convincing me that I have held wrong impressions 

upon this all-important subject from the beginning. He has now, 

to my mind, unmistakably cut the gordian knot. He ha.s, beyond a doubt, in my humble opinion, made known to the Senate the manner in .which we can pay the great national debt that now hangs over us. His manner of doing it, however, I cannot indorse, but it is a very 

great temptation; though it is certainly clear, as I think I can demonstrate to the Senator, from his ideas, from his language, and his law 

and the facts associated with everything that he has said on the 

subject, that his plan is impracticable. • He tells us that we have a statute which requires all import duties 

to be paid in ~old. That is correct. He says that they have yielded, 

up t.o this period, about $200,000,000 per annum. That is agreed. He 

says upon the same line that they will continue thus to yield. It 

will be seen clearly and unquestionably that we shall be annually 

pos essed of 100,000,000 of gold in excess of any demands against 

the Government, for the 100,000,000 set apart by statute to pay the 

interest upon our foreign debt; but as to citizens of the United States, 

they must take care of themselves; they must bushwhack it and do 

the best they can. If the measure now presented to the Senate should 

become a law~ I have no question of the result, for history authorizes me to arrive at but one conclusion, and daily experience teaches me nothing else, nor do I believe anything else successfully can be taught. 

History is repeating itself. The centennial question was up this morn- ing, and it reminds me that a hundred years ago there was a. debt 

hanging over the American nation that had been made by and through our struggle for independence. We know what became of it. In a 

few years, if we go on the downward slide as is now contemplated, in 

my opinion the same state of things will exist as to our present debt. 

This is a mighty debt, and millions have been created; aud if we go 

on, it too will uffer the fate that the continental money of 1776 did. 

Now, sir, I go further. The idea presented by my friend o ably as to what should be done with the one hundred million excess of ~old 

that we have every year is directly in line wit h that which the u-ov- ernment has been doing. We have gone into the market regularly 

every two weeks for two or three years, and we have sold gold, soltl 

a million or two millions, as the case might be, as was understood, 

for the purpose of maintaining the credit of the Union and protecting our currency. We were thus speculating. Now, upon the same line 

of peculation, you are to have your ecret agent, if you please-i 

would not look well for the Government to do it, lJut the same line 

suggests the idea-send your agents out with that $100,000,000 to buy 

currency when our money will be depreciated, a bank having sprung 

up at every cross-roads in this broad nation as now contemplated, 

giving thereby plenty of money without metes or bounds. Do that, 

and at a very early period you will see this money bought up at two 

for one, and then it will go down to ten for one; and it would no take as many years as it might be at first supposed to require before 

the whole edition might be bought up with the one hundred millions 

of pecie that we hould receive in exce s over our requirements from 

our imports. 

Why, sir, how wa it in 1836, in the days of the proud old Jackson f 

I indor e him as a good man, but many of his acts were not indorsed 

by me during his life; but he died a Christian, and his many,good 

deeds live to-day in the remembrance of his countrymen. When he 

jumped on old Mr. Biddle and tb.e United States Bank, from his success in that assault spran~ up State banks all over t he Union, and there 

the United States ha<1 her deposits from time to time. They were all 

over mighty New England, and the far West that is now peopled; 

they were not far from Saint Louis-the mighty city that my friend so ably represents-with her three hundred thousand people; they were in Illinois. In Mis ouriand Illinois there were land offices, with 

their respective register , each officer having two or three rooms. A man would go there, having ridden a hundred or two hundred miles, 

with his wallet in one hand and his meat and bread in the other, having in the wallet just refuse money enough to buy his forty or eighty 

acres, as the case might be, for a homestead. When he got there he 

had to go through·the mill, and he was ground over, and they made 

known to him, "Your money will not answer the purpose." 

Mr. BOGY. Will the Senator allow me a word¥ The sentleman answers my speech, thinking I have advocated the creatwn of the 

old State banks. 

Mr. FLANAGAN. Yes, sir. 

:Mr. BOGY. The Senator misunderstood my argument. 

Mr. FLANAGAN. I am directly against them. 

Mr. BOGY. I am against the old State-bank system. I am for the 

national-bank system, but giving to the States the power to say what 

number of banks shall exist in them, and where they shall be located, 

preserving all the national features a.s to security and circulation. 

Mr. FLANAGAN. I will stop if you include the greenbacks. 

[Laughter.] 

The applicant in the ca e I have supposed in 1 36, seeking his 

little home, would have to put himself into the mill, and he would 

be ground over to the tune of _abont 100 per cent. before he could 

get a little location to take his family to. Thus it was with the 

State-bank system in those days; and now when you tell me that 

this is a panacea in any way, manner, or shape to appreciate the cur- rency by extending it.in untold millions-for really, as contemplated 

by my distinguished friend's amendment from Pennsylvania, it is un- limited-! do not believe it. I dislike to go against anything that my 

fli.end from Pennsylvania presents, recognizing his experience and 

ability and all that is so well due to him; but the question is clear 

to me. ·The history of the United State admoBishes me unmistakably that if we do not now come up and act in good faith and redeem 

the solemn pledge made to the nation, that at the earliest practicable 

period you would resume specie payments, in other words, pay coin 

for this indebtedness, at a very early period your money will go down, as all paper money preceding it in all countries who e example can po ibly be invoked has done, and it will be anything else than beneficial to the Union, but it will be destructive to it beyond a doubt. 

The PRESIDENT p-ro temp&re. The question is on the amendment 

of the Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. CAMERON] to the proposition 

of the Senator from North Carolina, [Mr. MERRIMON.] 

Mr. CAMERON. Before we come to a vote, I want to correct a typo2"raphical error. In line 5 I wish to insert "so much" before 

" of ;" o as to read : 

And so much of the several act-s supple~enta.ry. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment as p~rlected will 

be reported. 

The Chief Clerk r ad as follows : 

That so much of the twenty-second section of: the act entitled "An act to ~rovide 

a. national currency secured by a pledJI;e of Umted States bonds, and to proVIde for 

the circulation and redemption thereof," approved .June 3, 1864, and so much of the 

several acts supplementar!. thereto and amendatory thereof, and such of the pro- visions of the act entitled 'An act to provide for the redemption of the 3 per cent. temporar -loan certificate-s and for an increase of national-bank notes," approved .J nly 12, i870, and ao much 'or auoh parts of any other act or acts of Congress as 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1635 

tim:it, or as may be construed to limit or restrict, the entire amonntof notes for cir-

'Culation to be issued under the said act of J nne 3, 1864, and the several suppl~m~nts 

rthereto,-be, and the same are hereby, repealed_; and that he_reafter alla~somations 

10rga nized, or that. may be organized, for carrymg ?n the busmes~ of ban~ng, under 

.the provisions of said act, shall be free to establish a.nd orga.I;llze_ national ba;nks with circulation, at any place within the several States and Te?TI;tor~es of the Uru~d 

:States upon the terms and conditions, and subject to all the limitations and res_trlcttions how provided by law, except the limitation upon the entire amount of crrcu- 'la.tio~, which is hereby repealed. 

Mr. CAMERON. I understand there are two or three Senators 

absent in consequence of sickness in their families, and I would rather, 

t.herefore, that thifi! vote should be put off until to-morrow. 

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. There is always some one absent. 

Mr. HAMILTON, of Maryland. The Senate is pretty full, I think. 

Mr. CAMERON. Very well. 

Mr. FLANAGAN. The Senator from Mississippi, Mr. ALcoRN, if 

he was here, would vote "yea." I should vote "nay." So I have 

agreed to pair off with him. 

Mr. HAMILTON, of Texas. I am paired with the Senator from 

Kansas Mr. INGALLS. He would vote in the affirmative, and! should 

vote in' the negative. 

Mr. STEVENSON. The Senator from Rhode Island, Mr. SPRAGUE, 

has been suddenly called out of the Senate by indisposition in his 

family. If he were here he would vote "yea," and I should vote "nay" 

but that I hav"e .paired with him. 

Mr. HITCHCOCK. I desire to state that the Senator from Vermont, 

Mr. ED fUNDS, is paired with the Senator from Arkansas, Mr. DoRSEY. The Senator from Vermont, if he were here, would vote ''nay," 

and the Senator from Arkansas w,ould vote "yea." 

The call of the yeas and nays was concluded. 

Mr. GORDON, (who had first voted in the affirmative.) I did not 

IUilderstand when my friend from Delaware, Mr. BAYARD, left t.hat 

I wa-s paired, except on the question of a return to specie payments; 

!but I am reminded by' my friend from Ohio [Mr. SHERMAN] that the 

Senator differed very widely with me on this subject. I do not wish 

to be guilty of any breach of faith OJ run ~y ri~k. I will therefore 

withdraw my vote, and state that I am parred w1th the Senator from 

Delaware. If he were h ere he would vote "nay," as I understand, and 

I should vote "yea." · The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator will be permitted to 

withdraw his vote if there be no objection. 

The result was announced-yeas 26, nays 32; as follows: 

YEAS-Messrs. :Bogy, Brownlow, Cameron, Carpenter, Clayton, Dennis, Ferry of 

Michigan, Harvey, Hitchcock, Howe, Johnston, Logan, Mitchell, ¥orton, N orwo<?d, 

Oglesby, Pa~rson, Pease, Pratt, Ramsey, Robertson, Spencer, Tipton, West, Wmdom, and Wnght--26. NAYS-Messrs. Allison, Anthony, Boutwell, Buckingham, Chandler, Conkling, Conover Cooper, Cragin, Davis, Fenton, Ferry of Connecticut, Frelinghuysen, Gilbert, Goidthwaite, H~g.er, Hamilton of Maryland, Hamlin, Jones, Kelly, McCreery, Merrimon, Morrill of .Maine, Morrill of Vermont, Sargent, Schurz, Scott, Sherman, 

Stewart, Stockton, Sumner, and Wadleigh---32. ABSENT-Messrs. Alcorn, Bayard, :Boreman, Dorsey, Edmnnds, Flanagan, Gordon, Hanrilton of Texas, Ingalls, Lewis, Ransom, Saulsbury, Sprague, Stevenson, 

and Thurman-15. 

So the amendment to the amendment was rejected. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question recurs on the instructions moved by the Senator from North Carolina, [Mr. MERRIMON,] as an amendment to the motion to recommit. 

:Mr. GORDON. I offer an amendment to the amendment of the 

Senator from North Carolina, to strike out all after the word "instructed," and insert: 

To report n. bill for free banking and providing for the convertibility of the 

Unit-ed States Treasury notes into low-interest bonds OI" gold coin, at the option of 

t.he Goverrunent, and the bonds convertible into United St.'ttes Treasury notes at the option of the holder. 

I will state in a word that I offer this amendment in order to bring 

to the support of free banking a number of gentlemen who otherwise 

cannot vote for it. I think with this amendment we may carry it. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the amendment 

<>f the Senator from Georgia to the amendment of the Senator from 

North Carolina. 

Mr. FERRY, of Michigan. I call for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered. 

1\Ir. MORRILL, of Vermont. Would it be in order now to strike 

out the words "and the bonds convertible into United States Treasury note~ at the option of the holder'" 

The PRESIDENT p1·o tlJmpO're. That would not be in order. This 

is an amendment to an amendme.nt. 

The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. 

Mr. FLANAGAN, (when his na,me was called.) In this case again 

I am paired with the Senator from Mississippi, 1\Ir. ALCORN. If he were here he would vote "yea," and I should vote "nay." 

Mr. GORDON, (when his name was called.) Does the Senator from 

Ohj.o think this amendment would be included in my pair with the 

Senator from Delaware' 

Mr. SHERMAN. I think so. 

Mr. GORDON. Very well, then; I shall not vote. 

Mr. OGLESBY, (when his name was called.) I just came into my 

seat before the roll-call commenced. The amendment was being read, 

but I did not distinctly understand it, and several gentlemen near me have not distinctly understood the meaning of a part of it. 

M.P. SHERMAN. I should like to ha.ve the last clause of it read over again. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair will direct the whole 

amendment to be read. 

The Chief Clerk ao-ain read the amendment of Mr. GORDON. 

The call of the roll was concluded. ~ :h-Ir. STEVENSON. I am naired with the Senator from Rhode Island, Mr. SPRAGUE. l do not know how he would vote on this particular proposition; but I shall not vote. He is for expansion, as I 

understand, and I am opposed to it. 

The result was announced-yeas 26, nays 30 ; a-s follows : 

YEAS-Messrs. Bogy, Brownlow, Buckingham, Cameron, Carpenter, Clavton, 

Conover, Cooper, Davis, Dennis, Ferry of Michigan, Goldthwaite, Harvey, Hitchcock, Johnston, Logan, Mitchell, Norwood, Patterson, Pea-se, Pratt, Ramsey, Robert- son, Spencer, Tipton, and Windom-26. . NAYS-Messrs. Allison, Anthony, Bor~man, Bon~ell, Chandler, Co~g, 

Cragin, Fenton, Ferry of Connecticut, Frelinghuysen, Gilb_ert, Hager,_Hanrilto1;1 of 

Maryland Hamlin, Howe, Jones, Kelly, McCreery, Merrrmon, Morrill of Marne, 

Morrill of Vermont, Sargent, Schurz, Scott, Sherman, Stewart~ Stockton, Sumner, 

Wadleigh, and Wri h~O. 

AnSENT-Messrs. Alcorn, Bayard, Dorsey, Edmnnds, Flanagan, Gordon, Hamilton of Texas, Ingalls, Lewis, Morton, Oglesby, P..ansom, Saulsbury, Sprague, Steven- son, Thurman, and West--17. 

So the amendment to the amendment was rejected. 

Mr. COOPER. I offer the following in lieu of the instructions proposed by the Senator from North Carolina: 

To report a bill providing for the convertibili~ of United States Treasury notes into gold coin or 5 per cent. bonds of the United States, and also for free banking 

nnder the provisions of the national-bank act. · 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the amendment 

of the Senator from Tennessee to the amendment of the Senator from 

North Carolina. 

The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. MORTON. I was going to ask for the yeas and nays. ["Too 

late."] 

Mr. STEWART. Is there any motion to reconsiderf 

The PRESIDENT pro t.ernpore. The Chair thinks the call for the 

yeas and n ays is not now in order. The Chair waited before declaring the result, and no such call was made. 

1\Ir. MORRILL, of Maine. There was no doubt about it. 

Mr. SHERMAN. The same vote comes up again on the next question. 

Mr. ALLISON. The question now is on the final adoption of the 

substitute. , The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the amendment 

of the Senator from North Carolina as amended by the amendment 

just acted on. Mr. l\1ERRIMON. I move to reconsider the vote by which the substitute of the Senator from Tennessee was adopted for my amendment. 

The PRESIDENT pro tem.pore. The question is on the reconsideration. 

Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. Did the Senator from North Carolina 

vote in the affirmative' 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. There was no division called for, and 

the yeas and nays were not asked. The motion is in order. 

Mr. DAVIS. The Senator from North Carolina, I think, voted in 

the wrong way to justify his moving a reconsideration. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair cannot know the fa-ct, as no division wa~ called for. The question is on the motion to reconsider. 

Mr. MERRIMON. On that I ask for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered. 

Mr. HOWE. Now I think this proposition had better be reported once more. I do not understand it. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It will be read. 

The Chief Clerk read as follows: 

And that the Committee on Finance be, and they are hereby, instructed to report a bill providing for the convertibility of United States Treasury ~otes into gold coin or 5 per cent. bond.<J of the United States, and also for free banking nnder the provisions of the national-bank act. 

Mr. MORTON. I simply want to state that that was the proposition 

of the Committee on Finance last winter, authorizing the conversion 

of the greenbacks into a 5 per cent. bond, and free banking simply 

upon those terms; involving, a~ was argued la-st winter, and I think 

very clearly, and I do not propose to go over it now, the rapid absorption of the greenbacks, and contraction. 

1\Ir. SCHURZ. Allow me to make a suggestion to the Senate. I 

suppose it must have become clear to a great many Senators who 

formerly were hotly iu favor of instructions, that the best thing we · can do, after all, if we want to recommit this bill at all, is to recom- mit it without instructions. 

Several SENATORS. Let us take the vote. 

1\Ir. SCHURZ. Very well. 

1\Ir. HOWE. I want to say a word on the pending proposition. If 

I 1.mderstand it--and I am not at all sure that I do-it is a. proposition requiring the Secretary of the Treasury to furnish 5 per c.ent. 

bonds at par, as long as anybody wants them, for greenbacks, and 

buy them back at a premium when he has a surplus of money in the 

Treasury. 

Mr. BUCKINGHAM. I do not understand that to be so. I differ 

very much from my friend from Wisconsin. I do not see what au- thority there is in these instructions to buy back bonds for notes. It 

seems to me to be a very simple proposition, a proposition to authorize free bal})ting ; and th~n, as under the banking law, the banks al'f\ 
1636 CONGRESSIO_tT_A_]j l{]J'CORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

required to redeem their notes in legal-tender notes. These instructions will direct the committee to bring in a bill to say that the Government· shall redeem its legal-tender notes in 5 per cent. bonds, 

which virtually brings legal-tender notes to par in specie. That is 

the extent of it. 

Mr. HOWE. That is not the extent of it, is i12_ f Let it be read 

once more. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment will be read:- The Chief Clerk read the amendment proposed by Mr. COOPER. 

Mr. HOWE. Now, what :j.s to be done with the legal-tender notes 

when redeemed f 

Mr. COOPER. They are with the Treasury, to be used if needed. _ It is not to retire the greenbacks. They are left in existence, to be 

used by the Secretary of the Treasury as the needs of the Government require. 

Mr. HOWE. Then I did misunderstand the proposition. 

Mr. COOPER. There is no provision for the purcha-se of bonds, or for the· cancellation of greenbacks. I do not desire any cancellation, nor their use again, unless for the ordinary expenses of the Government. Mr. HOWE. It is simply a proposition, then, to enable the holder 

of a greenback to put it in the Treasury and get interest on it, or get a bond paying 5 per cent. interest ; but the note callllot be canceled, 

but must lie in the Trea ury. 

Mr. SARGENT. It may be paid out ln Government expenses, like 

other money. 

Mr. STEW ART. It is a proposition to pay our debts. 

Mr. HOWE. No; it is not a proposition to pay your debt, because 

the debt is so much larger as the bonds are issued. 

ltfr. BOUTWELL. It seems to me the proposition is perfectly 

clear that the holders of United States notes may present them at 

the Treasury and· demand redemption. 'I'he Secretary of the Treasury 

may redeem in coin, or he may redeem in 5 per cent. bonds. The 

money, the United States notes being in the Treasury, would be like 

any other money in the Treasury, to be used for any purpose for which 

any other money could be used. If there should be an excess of cur- rency for tbe ordinary expenses of the Government, that excess would 

accumulate unless 6 per cent. bonds were at something less than par 

in gold. In that case these accumulations could be used for the pur- cha~e of 6 per cent. bonds; but if 6 per cent. bonds should be in excess of par in coin, there would be no r~lief. The notes would accumulate_ to the extent of the diSposition of the people to convert. Mr. GORDON. Would not the effect be to that extent, let me ask 

the Senator from Massachusetts, to contract the currency! 

Mr. BOUTWELL. Undoubtedly, to that extent. 

Mr. SHERMAN. The details of such a bill would undoubtedly 

provide the purposes for which the notes could be reissued. The 

principle of this proposition I can vote for with pleasure. The difficulty suggested by the Senator from Massachusetts is one of detail. 

The money comes into the Treasury of the United States, and is the 

property of,the United States, the money of the United States, legal' 

tender, and it can be used by the Government of the United States 

for any purpose that the law may authorize. As a matter of course, 

any committee in framing a bill under such instructions would provide the necessary details to carry it into execution. They may provide the uses and purposes for which the money should be used. 

Mr. BOUTWELL. But will the Senator n·om Ohio question· this 

proposition, that if there should be a disposition on the part of the 

holdeFs of United States notes to converttheminto 5 per cent. bonds, 

and if the accumulations consequent upon such disposition and practice, together with the ordinary revenues of the Government, should 

exceed the ordinary expenses of the Government, there would be an accumulation of these notes in the Treasury, exhibited as a currency 

balance, for which there could be no use except the purchase of 6 per 

cent. bonds T And inasmuch as the power of the Trea-sury is limited 

in the purcha-se of 6 per cent. bonds to such bonds as can be bought 

at less than par, the power of the 'I'Feasurer to relieve the contraction 

which might be produced by the conversion o£ United States notes 

into 5 per cent. bonds would be dependent upon the price of 6 per 

cent. bonds in coin. Mr. SHERMAN. Undoubtedly in a bill to carry out these instructions some details would be required to express the purpose for which 

the money could be used. As a matter of course, any committee 

carrying into execution these instructions would niake some provision 

for the purchase of 6 per cent. bonds, or for whatever it might be 

deemed public policy to use the money in. Undoubtedly the natural use would be to purchase 6 per cent. bonds. 

Mr. BOUTWELL. Let me ask the Senator from Ohio if there can be any other use to which a surplllB can be applied, after the ordinary 

eXpenses of the Government are paid, except the purchase of 6 per 

cent. bonds. 

Mr. SHERMAN. I would not be in favor of such use; but as a matter of course the use of the money would be regulated by the details of the bill reported. 

Mr. BOUTWELL. Is there any other use within the knowledge of tlie Senator from Ohio to which surplus money could be applied, 

however acquired Y 

Mr. SHERMAN. In my judgment it ought not to be used for any 

purpose ; but, as a matter of course, the law might allow it to uc used 

for other purposes. But the money could be -used in the payment of 

bonds. Suppose the 5 per cent. bonds are worth, as they are to-day, 

ninety-nine and a half cents on the dollar; these notes may be con- verted ihto 5 per cent. bonds; that makes the notes equal to bonds 

worth! ninety-nine and a half cents on the dollar. As a matter of 

course, the law would provide some means by which these notes 

might be applied to the purchase of 6 per cent. bonds; but, as the 

Senator properly says, the 6 per cent. bonds can only be purchased 

at par in gold. But w~ have a right by law now to pay off $12,000,000 

of 6 per cents at par in gold. Consequently the only loss there would 

be to the Government would be the difference between the value of 5 

per cent. bonds at 99t or 99 and par in gold; in other words, the effe.ct 

of it would be that the Government could use this.money to buy gold 

with which to pay the bonds that would be called in. 

Mr. :MORRILL, of Vermont. I would suggest to the chairman of 

the Finance Committ ee that a better provision would be to burn them 

up, as the increase of bank currency by free banking would more than supply theh place. . . 

1\fr. SHERMAN. That would be a question left to be reported upon 

by the Committee on Finance, and entirely open to discussion. My 

honorable friend from Vermont and myself would differ a-s to the use 

to which the law might require these notes to be applied. And perhaps the Senator from Ma-ssachusetts would differ with us.- But that 

is a matter of detail which will certainly be reported to the Senate 

by the committee, and the whole subject will then be presented for 

the action of the Senate. 

Mr. BOUTWELL. The Senator from Vermont suggests a second use. Every Senator will see that that means contraction- absolute, 

positive, uncertain as to a;mount that may take place, or as to the 

time when. Therefore I think that, except for those Senators who are in favor of contraction, that view of the ultimate result of this 

policy is inadmissible. · 

Now, as to the other, which is the alternative proposition- thereinvestment of these notes in 6 per cent. bonds. You work a tempo- rary contraction by the accumulation of a currency balance in the 

Treasury, unless those bonds can be purchased with United States 

notes at something less than par; and the accumulation of a currency 

balance in the Treasury of the United States, for all the purposes of 

businesS, is precisely the same as a contraction produced by the withdrawal of the notes from circulation and their positive destruction; 

only there is a power of reissue, whenever the time comes that they can be reissued for any lawful purpose. 

I did not intend to mingle so far in the debate. This is only a 

proposition for contraction, uncertain as to the time when or as to the 

amount. 

Mr. BOGY. Will the Senator from Massachusetts petmit me to 

ask him a question f 

Mr. BOUTWELL. Certainly. 

~Ir. BOGY. Would not the contraction brought about by the con- version of greenbacks into 5 percent. bonds be more than overbalanced 

by the creation of national-bank notes under this fre6'-banking Jaw, 

and in time have the effect of entirely retiring the legal-tender notes 

and substituting national-bank notes 7 . Would not that be the effect T 

Mr. BOUTWELL. I cannot say. I am not on the floor for the 

purpose of discussing the question of free banking. I have always 

voted against it. 

Mr. BOGY. The proposition is coupled with free banking. 

Mr. BOUTWELL. It is. I do not think it is in the way of com- pensation. 

Mr. BUCKINGHAM. Mr. President, instead of going into detail, 

I sliould hope the proposition might go to the committee ~s it is, and 

leave it for the committee to bring forward a bill with such details as they think proper, and then leave it to the Senate to determine 

whether they will approve or modify those details. Mr. CONKLING. Mr. President, did we need illustration of the 

loose and aimless futility of the mode in which we· are proceeding, I 

submit we have it now. We are dealing with a great a'nd many-sided 

subject hap-hazard and by guess. Without any appropriate measure before us we are plying each other with vague generalities and incomplete suggestions, upon which we are to vote as they are read one after another; and this is the way we are asked to solve one of 

the gravest and most intricate problems which can possibly confront us. By our own action we cast away the aid upon which we reiy even in trivial and simple cases. The invention of the moment is 

subst~tuted, when dealing with supreme an<\ complex affairs, for that careful process o-f legislation which has been found safest and best for 

eight hundred years in England, for a century of our own, and from 

the beginning of legislative bodies everywhere. Is this wise or par- donable 'I Is it safe in such a matter to dispense altogether with 

action by a committee in its committee-room, where not only general 

principles, but details and minute particulars, can be exactly adjusteu 

and perfected, and printed that we may study and understand them r 

Shall we legislate on the wing, without waiting to hear fri}m the ltp- propriate committee 'I 

The Finance Committee has brought forward no plan. Tlie Senate 

has been pleased, by discussing the general subject, to postpone the . action of the committee, so that we have not even the excuSe for pro-

/ ceeding we might have had the committee been derelict or laggard. 

It is true the committee has reported several minor special bills-bills 

I not professing to enter at all upon the subject at large, but for exMp- tional and collateral purposes. One was a bill to aaaist banh in rid'. 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL EECO.RD. 1637 

ding themselves of their circulation in certain rare cases; and there 

have been three other bills, one of which is now before us, all limited 

and fragmentary, touching the ski.rts here and there of matters 

financial in character, and all abstaining purposely from the general 

subject. But we have had, and as we are going on we are to have., 

from the committee no plan, no project, no system, no solution, as a whole, of finance, nor even of currency or banking. What is the product thus far of this unusual, if not blind and hazardous, proceeding! What end have we reached t 

What have we at this moment t We have adopted, and are instantly 

asked to reconsider, a Delphic proposition which it needs no ex-Secretary of the Treasury, no expert in finanee, to inform us means either one thin~ or the opposite, depending on an arrangement of details 

not implied or hinted at in the proposition itself. Without even a division, the S@nate has just declared for free banking, United States 

notes to be convertible into 5 per cent. bonds. Who does not see that this is but a juggle of words f Who does not see that it means contraction to the oontractionist and expansion to the expansionist! 

Who does not see that whether the langu.age points north or points 

south, whether it means contraction or means expansion, depends on the ultimate destiny and disposition of the greenbacks f And yet 

what is to be done with the greenbacks nowhere appears. 

If the greenbacks after reaching the Treasury are to be paid out 

again for current expenses, or in a crisis for bonds, as 13,000,000 were at once of the 44,000,000 reserve, a child can tell without slate or pencil that the transaction is expansion, if it be expansion to add to 

the volume of paper money afloat. On the contrary, if the meaning 

be that greenbacks having been paid to the Treasury for bonds, 

which bonds are to become the basis of bank circQ].ation, are, in the 

language of the Senator from Vermont, to be burned up, blotted out, 

and never reissued, the process is contraction. Why f Because the 

bank currency to be received upon the bonds purchased with the 

greenbacks is to be 10 per cent. less than the bonds, and 10 per cent. 

less than the greenbacks, and it is to be lessened also in e:fl'ect by the 

requirement of a reserve to be maintained by the banks. Thus, if 

greenbacks are to be paid to the Government for bank circulation, 

and the greenbacks are to be destroyed, in place of substituting one for the other, dollar for dollar, you will have substituted one for the 

other less a large diminution. This is contraction as sure as gravitation. The language before us is equally consistent with either 

view. In other words, in the form of instructing the committee 

what to report we have adopted a declaration which looks to the 

right a much as it does to the left, which tends equa,lly upward or dov;;nward, which leads to expa.nsion as clearly as it le~cls to con 

traction. 

What progress are we making t What light are we shedding upon 

anything in doubt f What are we doing except to expend the time 

of the Senate1 and, as politicians sometimes say, "making a record"- a record not likely t9 be useful even iu tripping one more than another 

of the parties to itf It seems to me, all having had abundant opportunity to express their views at large, and to record themselves upon one governing point, that we might now all consent to let the whole 

matter go back to the Committee on Finance without instructions. 

Let them work out and report some theory practically applied, giving us the detail and machinery by which it is to be executed The Senate may then advisedly concur with the committee or take issue with 

it. The Senate can then perfect the work of the committee, or over- throw it altogether, and by better light find ground approved by the 

general judgment. 

It may be, Mr. President, that I am adding to the expenditure of 

time by an appeal to Senators to put an end to the e uncertain 

doings by allowing the bill to return to the committee without further 

attempts at·instructions. My apology must be that I have wasted no time and occupied none thus far during the debate, believing that if 

by possibility I had anything of value to suggest it were better withheld until something more definite had been matured, and the time 

had come for action. 

Before taking my seat, however, I deem it due to frankness not to 

neglect to add my voice of warning and protest against all schemes 

for wholesale issues of irredeemable paper money. Conscious of the 

many things taught by the science of finance which I do not know, 

there is one thing which I think I do know, having learned it from 

the saddened and blackened annals of many epochs. Reason and 

experience convince me that we shall launch Government and people on a sea without shore or bottom when we legislate the nation out 

upon a sea of unlimited irredeemable paper money. 

A note not to be paid or redeemed is a promise made to be broken, a promise made to be broken is a lie, and a lie will upset anything, 

from an apple-cart to an empire. 

Paper monAy not to be paid or redeemed i,s a falsehood and a fraud. 

[t can never be true, and therefore it can never be right or safe. 

It is false that by stamping the murk of a dollar upon a bit of paper you transmute it into a dollar. It is false that you can thus 

reverse the truth of property and change the nature of value. Property is the product of labor. If it is true in value it represents 

the cost of production. A barrel of flour is a unit of value. Why T 

Because, a necessity of man, its price represents the cost of producing 

it. So of a diamond, a gem, a nugget of gold or of silver; so of a coined dollar, less only a small alloy put into it to cover the ex penses of coinage, and to make it harder, that it may better bear attritif'n 

and to keep ~t out of the crucible of the artisan. Making allowance 

for this ~lloy, a coined dollar :r;epresents the cost of pro(luction. 

Redeemable paper money preserves the same reality. 

When you have paper money redeemable you have only a symbolic 

currency; you have in the paper a; symbol of the value behind it; 

but when you have no value behind it which the holder can reach, no redeemability, yon have a mere :f:l.oating false promise to pay. 

I say nothing of the legal-tender acts, or the legal-tender policy. 

It was resorted to temporarily in the stress of dire emergency, to keep 

the flag of the Union flying in the field. Above all, it was supported 

by a pledge, oft repeated, to redeem it, and I am not now arguing for 

contraction of the currency. This is not the time to discuss the legal- tender acts; but now that no war threatens us, and no overmastering 

necessity is to be pleaded, guilty and mad will be the hour when Congress can find no better way to conduct the finances of the nation than 

to print an uulimited i sue of irredeemable promises to pay. Had I 

believed that my voice would be heeded by Senators-whose faces are set toward wild inflation, it should have been raised days ago in this 

debate. I advert to the matter now only incidentally and briefly, 

having risen, not to occupy the time of the Senate but in the hope 

tha_t Sen~to!'s wo~d not refuse t<_> listel?- to ru;t appeal to stop chopping 

logiC, splitting hrurs, and expenmenting With general declarations, 

and give the committee opportunity to prepare a complete measure upon which the eminent Senators around me, learned in finance and 

in currency, can unite; and then those so little instructed as I will be 

safe in followina. 

Mr. OGLESBf. l\1r. President, I have no other apology to offer 

for havin~ remained silent during the long debate upon these financial questions than the apparent one, at least to my own consciousness, of an inability to throw any light upon the subject. I had no well-defined notion about what it was best for Congress to do, if it 

were thought best to attempt at this time to do anything. We are scarcely away yet from the reverberating echoes of the war. The 

public mind of this nation has been dwelling for the few years that 

have intervened since its close upon the sad spectade of war, and 

its serious and fruitful results. The public mind of this nation has 

not been calmly contemplating the subject of national finance. As a. people we have not thought deeply or broadly on the subject. Th0 

time, however, is coming when the American people must J:;:e seri- ous consideration to these grave matters. We are but t · g the 

preliminary step. I have not felt firm in any conclusions formed 

about it. 

I will be frank to my constituents, as I am frank to this body, and 

make that open declaration to-day. I have sought, in common with 

honorable Senators here, to steer for the bright and clear course that 

would lead to a settlement of the questions before us and prosperity 

and satisfaction to the country. But, sir, I have not seen my way 

clear as to what my course as a legislator should be. I have listened 

to this debate now for two months. I have listened with benefit to 

myself. I am grateful the time hM not come when there is justifica--

tion for the declaration sometimes pnblicly made that the intellect or that the intelligence of the American Senate is waning. To my mind 

there is in this body ability, intellect, and experience, that will com~ 

pare with the most favorable era of the American republic. There is 

ability here; there is integrity here; there is statesmanship here; 

there is simple, plain, common honestv here. 

I confess that I have been benefited, and I trust enlightened, by 

this discussion. We have gone along, step by step, until at last we are confronted by a vote that hM pa sed into the official journals of 

this body. A vote recorded less than thirtyminut.es ago says that it is 

the sense of the American Senate that we shall not have free banking. I stand here to-day to commend the wisdom of the republican 

Congress that gave us the ~reenbacks and gave us the national 

banking system. I stand renecting the unanimous feeling of the 

whole country when I make the a sertion that the is ne of the Treasury note, elevated to dignity by attaching to it its legal-tender feature, in connection with the system of national banking, carried our country safely through the civil war. It has met with the universal 

favor of republicans and democrats, of all people, and is at this mo- ment sustained by the indorsement and support of a larger number 

of American citizens than any other paper circulation ever received 

at any time since the organization of the Government. I ' it based upon gold Is it based upon silver No, sir; I will be 

frank; the national banking system and the legal-tender system, if I 

may call it a system, were neither of them based upon gold or silver. 

They were neither of them ba ed upon the results of political science. 

Political economy formed no part of the consideration. that entered 

into the public mind when these two great measures were inaugurated. They were based upon, and sprung from, absolute necessity, 

and the conviction of the American people that such measures were indispensable to the salvation of the country. 

He who looks back to the narrow path of political economy to find reasons upon which to base our paper system will utterly fail. It was based upon the political economy of no country or of no author. 

It was based upon the political necessities of the times, and is therefore now to be treated and considered on a broader plane, and as a purely American question, disconnected in f9"eat part, if not entirely, from the theories of other times, and, as I think, of other countries. I 

will not, for I cannot now in the few moments I propose to speaknot upon finances, but rather upon the turn these proposed amend-
1638 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

ments aFe taking on the motion to recommit this subject to the Finance 

Committee-go further in the direction of sustaining these thoughts. 

Here we are still within reach almost of the battle-cry and shouts 

of victory that closed the war, and we are now demanding, or r- tiou of our American people are demanding, a speedy redemption of 

the legal-tender. Sir, I maintain for that legal-tender to-day that it 

i as good as gold. The honor of this nation is pledged for its redemption in gold; it will be, and shall be, every dollar, redeemed in gold. 

We will never repudiate a dollar or a dime of it. Sir, it has upon it 

the impre s of the best faith of this nation. It is the money sealed 

and sanctified with the best blood of the Republic. It is no disgrace 

to the nation; it is a noble currency, a grand trophy of the war, and 

held dear in the heart of every .American citizen. We will redeem 

every dollar of it in gold, not to-day, not to-morrow, not upon the heels 

of a panic that no Senator yet has been able to fathom; no American 

citizen has comprehended, or fully comprehends, the mysteries of that 

panic-; and not upon the heels of it will we venture to pass laws for 

the redemption of this currency. . · We have attempted to legislate upon it at this session. What has 

been done¥ The Finance Committee reported a resolution to and 

asked this body for in tructions. That led to a long and interesting 

debate, an in tructive debate. I make the general average of it in 

giving this O]Jinion, however; and in that general average I say it was an instructive and enlightening debate. We have taken one vote. The REcoRD will show that yesterday the Senate declined to 

instruct the Finance Committee to report back measures here for the 

redemption of the national-bank circulation, either in coin or in 

Government bonds. Another vote of this Senate, already recorded, 

bas r efused to instruct that committee to report back measures here 

that, if the national banking system should be made free, or if any 

addition of circulation should be provided for, pm·i pass-u with it the 

leO'al-tenders should be redeemed to the extent of ei~hty-five dollars of 

legal-tenders for every one hundred of increased bank circulation. The 

Senate refused to instruct the committee to report such a measure as that. Then came the proposition of the Senator from Pennsylvania, which, plain, straight, unvarnished, was for free banking under our present national-bank law; and the Senate refused, by a vote that has now gone into the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, to instruct the Finance 

Committee to report free banking. 

Now comes the pending instruction which has been pa-ssed by this 

body, and what have you now instructed that committee to do f I 

take the liberty to read the proposition. .A.re we acting like intelligent men¥ Have we for the moment, at this late hour of the day 

when nature i weary and tired, in some freak of momentary relief, forgotten ourselve , making a record we ought to and shall be held re ponsible for, adopting language that means nothingT How is that 

committee going to construe these instructions that they have just 

received from the Senate¥ 

That the Committee on Finance be instructed to report ba{)k to thls body a bill 

increa ing the national-bank circulation 46,000,000, or to an amount not exceeding 

400,000,000, with instructions also to re:port a bill providing for the convertibility 

of United States Treasury notes into com. 

Mr. COOPER. The Senator is mistaken. 

Mr. OGLESBY. Have we not just moved to reconsider the vote 

by which that was passed f Was it not passed f .A.nd is there not a 

motion pending to reconsider it' 

Mr. COOPER. Mr. President, the Senator from Illinois is mistaken. The amendment which I offered was adopted in lieu of the 

proposition of the Senator from North Carolina; and the motion now is to reconsider the vote adopting it in lieu of that. 

Mr. OGLESBY. .As a substitute T 

:Mr. COOPER. Yes; it is not attached to it. :Mr. OGLESBY. That only shows how confused this b~~y has been 

for the last hour. [Laughter.] I am not sure that there lS any pending probability that I shall extricate it at all. [Laughter.] But I 

do not wish to have·my name go upon the Journals of this body and 

in the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD as instructing the Committee on Fi- nance to report a bill providing for the convertibility of United States 

notes into coin. We have always talked about the redeemability of 

the legal-tenders; we have always talked about a possible time when 

they might be redeemed with coin or redeemed with something else; 

but the .American Senate stands here late this afternoon instructing 

its Finance Committee deliberately to introduce a bill that shall proville for the convertibility of greenbacks into coin. Well might the 

Senator from New York lecture us in the able and magnificent manner in which he can and always does. I do not wish to vote upon that 

resolution. With instructions to report a. bill providing for the convertibility of United StatR:> TreasUI'y notes into gold coin or 5 percent. bonds of the United States. 

\\hat construction will the Finance Committee put upon that intellirrent instruction f Will they report back a bill here the leading 

feat me of which will be free banking¥ No ; because the Senate has 

refnsed to sustain free banking, and the leading idea of the Finance 

Committee will not be for free banking, and it will be sustained by 

the vote of this Senate in not being so led. We have instructed them 

here that free banking is not what this body desires. Therefore when 

they come to consider this proposition and to bring back a bill, the 

leading feature of that bill will not be free banking. It will be in 

snborilination to the other instructions, to convert the legal-tender 

notes into coin or a 5 per cent. bond of the United States. What do 

you mean, Senators f Do you mean to say that that convertibility shall 

be at the option of the Treasury of the United States, or do· yon mean to say it shall be at the option of the holder of legal-tender notes f 

If you leave the Finance Committee to put its interpretation on that- language, and the Finance Committee shall report a bill providing· for the convertibility of greenbacks into national 5 or 6 per cent. 

bonds, at the plea~ure of the Government or at the plea~ure of theholder, it can quote in the face of the Senate its vote of instructions- to do that very thing. Therefore the instructions the Senate is giving to the Finance Committee are not intelligible or intelligent instructions. 

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine, rose. The PRESIDENT Jn'O tentp01·e. Does the Senator from illinois yield 

to the Senator from Maine T 

Mr. OGLESBY. I do·not believe both of us together will make this 

thing any better than I am making it. [Laughter.] 

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I am very much inclined to think that 

is so; but if my honorable friend will yield to me for a moment I will 

remind him that it is about half-pa t five o'clock, with very little 

probability of closing this matter to-night; and if he will yield for 

the purpose of an adjournment I should be glad to move it. 

Mr. OGLESBY. I concur with the honorable Senator in his solicitude about an adjournment. I have been dying for one for three 

hours, [laughter;] but it would not be fair to adjourn in the middle 

of a sentence, when that sentence, unexplained, wonld be no more intelligible than the resolution of instructions I hold in my hand. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I hope it will keep over until morning, 

and we can put the two together in the morning and the Senator can go on with his speech. 

Mr. OGLESBY. I will adjourn in a few moments. [Laughter.] 

The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The Senator from illinois declines 

to be inteiTupted. 

Mr. OGLESBY. I say I shall vote against these instructions what- I 

ever interpretation may be put upon my act by my people at home or in this nation. I hope I shall live long enough and have healt.h 

enough to explain to them what my honest view about it wa.s, upon 

this little resolution which is destined to become a very important 

paper in American political financialliteratm:e. There is no escaping 

it, and I shall carry it with me, and no doubt will have a great neces- sity for it to explain myself to the intelligent people of illinois. 

Now, sir, the fiat of this body is recorded against free banking. I was somewhat in doubt as to whether it was the best thing to be done 

at this time. My preference was-and that is all I am at liberty to 

say ; it concerns no Senator; I am well and thoroughly persuaded it 

will affect no Senator; but as it is customary and excusable for gentlemen to say "My opinion is this way or that way," or "I think so and so," catching that fever, and benefiting by that example, which 

is very healthy to new beginners in this body-I say that my opinions about free banking were not well fixed. I did not know that it was the best thing for us to do at this time; but I had made up my 

mind to vote either for a Honse bill or a bill in the Senate to legal- ize the issue of the 44,000,000 legal-tenders, to put them back to 

400,000,000, and there let them stand as an entirety, and to be treated 

by this American people and this American Congress as a solitary 

grand fact. I will not undertake to redeem them by retiring them 

and contracting the currency. You may begin to-day, the Secretary 

of the Treasury, the republican party, or any other political party, 

may begin to retire the legal-tenders to-day, redeeming them in gold or in bonds, and you will not r tire one hundred millions before you 

will arouse a voice of general and universal indignation throughout 

the land that you or I nor none of us can meet. The only fair way 

to deal with the legal-tenders is to put them at $400,000,000, where 

they were put in war. Let them stand together and be treated together as an entirety, and the time will come as surely a~ yon and I 

sit here, without any of the peculiar modes of political economy, without any of the intricate poli'j;ical financial science that bothers ns quite as much a it enlightens us, in the good time of the natural 

growth of our country, when they will reach par, when they will be 

converted in the hands of the people into gold, and from gold back 

into greenbacks again; and I declare then, and then! shall maintain, 

that that will be a redemption by the Government; and it is the only · redemption they will ever have under the sun; and that is the way 

they will ultimately be redeemed, by growing to par wit.h gold in the 

hands of the people, and not by a formal redemption at the Treasury 

by the nation. The general indisposition to part with this favored 

and popular circulation, under American politic , will hold them in 

the hands of the people until they shall grow to par with coin, when 

the universal verdict of an intelligent people will be that they are 

fairly, honestly, fully redeemed by the United States. 

I then favored the amendment of the Senator from North Carolina, 

[Mr. MERRIMON,] and took the liberty to go across and suggest to him 

that it would be a good thing to do, although he had already made up 

his mind to do so, to add $46,000,000 of national-bank circulation to the 

currency of the country. You would then have $400,000,000 of legaltenders and $400,000,000 in national-bank circulation, making a grand 

total of paper circulation of 00,000,000, and po sibly $100,000,000 or $150,000,000 of gold in circulation ; and I am not prepared conscientiously to say that it is too much for this American people or for the 

necessities of the times. 
' 

' 

1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1639 

I have listened attentively to the arguments of the able Senators 

who have argued in the direction of what ~hey- thought a rea~onable 

return to specie payments. I do not find 1t m my heart to rmpugn 

their motives, for I could very clearly see that they were actuated by an honest desire to do right; but I differed from their reasoning. It 

is not the time to lay the groundwork or the platform of a return to 

specie payments now. It can never be done by law. Victories can as well be won by law. Neither is the result of statutory enactment. 

Yon may pa-ss measures looking in that direction ; you may adopt laws 

to ameliorate the condition of the country; you may pass laws to 

-t:acilitate commerce; you may pass laws to increase and to protect the 

industries of the country; you may pass laws to elevate labor, to favor 

labor, to encourage labor, to encourage the labo~ing community of tJ;te · country; you may pass laws of a g~neral and liberal _ nature, that. m their wide and humane scope take m the lowest man m the land With 

the highest man in the land; and thus, bringing universal prosperity, 

you may bring the Government back to where we will stand upon 

what is commonly called a specie basis. 

Now we have turned our backs upon free banking. I liked t he 

present national sys~e~. I co.nfess I like its~. _I ~m n?t dubio?-s 

of it. I am not susp1c10us of 1t. I do not believe 1t ~ a ~-e ~o crr- cumvent the industries of our country. I do not believe 1t lS m the 

hands of dishonest and corrupt men. I do not believe it will fall into 

the hands of dishonest and bad men. It has been a good ystem. It 

bas !riven us a good currency. There was some limitation on the amo~t. Neither republicans nor democrats in this country like anythino- that bears the a-spect of monopoly, or special privilege , or special franchises, or exclusive or special rights. It is not consistent 

with the humanity and common· sense of the American genius. Therefore I was in favor, and did at last make up my mind to vote, and did 

vote,_to remove that restriction andletthe banking privileges, whatever 

they are, extend to the country. That has been defeated in this body. 

The next thing we can hope for is the amendment of the Senator 

from North Carolina. If that shall be defeated, then we will come back and place ourselves in the tender mercies of that other branch 

of the Senate-honorable, good, noble Senators they are-who will 

take charge of the :finances on a specie basis. If we can do no better, if we cannot get what we want., if we cannot ~et what we believe 

is right, I tell those gentlemen I will throw nothing in their way ; I 

will stubbornly resist nothing; I will help them to modify their measures n,ll I can; but in helping them I will steadily tell them that 

they are wrong ; that they are premature in their action ; that they 

will bring misery where they intend to bring happiness. 

Now, sir, I wish to say a word more, as 'I have been ~orced to say 

something by thatirresisti le desire which people cannot always con- trol, yet I think under the discipline of the experience of the Senate 

I have behaved pretty well for two solid months. It is about as much as human nature can stand to remain silent that long in the midst of so much eloquence, so much logic, so much splendid debate, and I say 

this in none other than a serious and truthful spirit. I can add nothing to it, God knows. That I know and so do the people know who 

sent me here. If I should make a mistake in voting on these financial 

mea-sures, I will go back to Illinois and will meet a people who will 

indulgently hear any explanation I may have to make about it. I am not afraid to vote in this body. I know the people who sent me here will hear me at home. The fact about it was that on the very 

day of my election by the Legislature we had an agreement that 

amounted almost to that. I said to them that for the first two or three years I might make mistakes, and if so they must excuse me, 

and they nodded all around, all over the house, ''yes," [laughter;] so that I feel pretty safe. 

I meant to vote and did in earnest vote for free banking. I would 

vote for it again in this Chamber, and will if the opportunity again 

offers. If I cannot get -that, I will vote for forty-six millions, or that 

number of millions which will ~arry the national-bank circulation up 

to 400,000,000. If I cannot get that, I will take what I can get, and 

trust to luck, the experience of time, and the reason of the future, to 

adjust our financial affairs upon a sound, healthy, and enduring ba is; 

but I cannot vote at this time for any measure tending, a-s this last 

amendment does, to contraction. 

Mr. SHERMAN. I move that the Senate do now adjourn. 

The motion was agreed to; and (at five o'clock and forty-five minutes p. m.) the Senate adjourned. 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 

THURSDAY, February 19, 1874. 

TheHousemetattwelveo'clock m. Prayer byRev.J. W. PARKER, D. D., of Washington. 

The Journal of yesterday was read and approved. 

CURRENCY. 

Mr. KILLINGER. I had intended to submit some remarks on ques- tions connected with the currency when the bill on that subject comes before the Honse for consideration. I find, however, I will have to 

be absent several days, and therefore ask permission to print them 

in the RECORD. [See Appendix.] 

There was no objection. 

APACHE INDIANS rn ARIZO~A AND NEW llfEXICO. 

~Ir.AVERILL, byunauiruous consent, reported back from the Com- mittee on Indian Affairs a letter of the Secretary of the Interior, 

transmitting a statement of indebtedness on a{}count of collecting 

upon reservations and subsisting Apache Indians in Arizona and New Mexico prior to July 1, 1873, and moved that the committee be uis- charged from the further consideration of the same, and that it be 

referred to the Committee on Appropriations. 

The motion was agreed to. 

TITLES OF CERTAlN NAVAL OFFICERS, ETC. 

Mr. SCOFIELD. I ask unanimous consent to report back from 

the Committ-ee on Naval Affairs, for present consideration, the bill 

(S. No. 269) to change the titles of certain naval officers, and for other 

purpo es. The bill was read. It provides that from and after the pa-ssage of 

the act the title of first assistant engineer shall be changed to pa-ssed 

a-ssistant engineer, and that the title of second assistant engineer shall 

be changed to a istant engineer ; provided that the regulations of 

the Navy Department in relation to the examinations and amount of 

ea-service previous to each examination be complied with. In its seconu section it provide that from and after the 30th day of June, 

1874, the course of instruction at t he Naval Academy, for cadet engi- neers shall be four years instead of two, as now provided by law; and 

this provision shall fir t apply to the cla s of cadet engineers entering 

the Academy in the year 1874, and to all subsequent classes; and that 

all acts and part of acts inconsistent therewith be, and the same are thereby, repealed. ~Ir. HOLMAN. I hope the gentleman from Pennsylvania, the chair- man of the Committee on Naval Affairs, will give some explanation, 

particularly in regard to the second section of this bill. 

Mr. SCOFIELD. The second section proposes to extend the time 

of instruction at the Nn,val Academy for cadet engineers. This is a new branch of the work of the Naval Academy. It is only within a few years that engineers have been educated at that institution at all. 

Formerly only officers of the line were there educated. But under a law passed some years ago the Secretary authorizes competitive exam- inations, at which a large number of boys appear, and selects about 

fifteen ordinarily from the whole number to remain at the Academy 

for two years. But it has been found, after a little experience, that 

that time is too short. It is found that they should remain there four 

years, the same as those designed to be officers of the line. This bill 

merely lengthens the time from two to four years. The :first section, which changes the titles of the engineers, is simply 

for the purpose of adopting the language used in the Navy. When we fixed the rank of staff officers of the Navy two years ago the act 

made use of the titles "first assistant engineer" and "second assistant 

engineer" instead of "passed assistant engineer" and. "assistant 

engineer," the titles which had been customary. That change is 

desired by the Navy Department, and I suppose there will be no objection to it. 

The object of having the bill adopted now is that the Navy Department may notify members of Congress to nominate boys for this 

competitive examination. Arrangements for that have to be made 

immediately, as the notices have to be sent out 1st of March, the examination taking place in June. The Naval Committee of the 

Honse examined the bill pretty carefully and were unanimously in 

favor of it. There are about :fifteen annually selected, but each mem- ber of Congress is requested to recommend one for the competitive examination; and then the naval board appointed by the Academy, 

after examination, selects about fifteen of the boys; the others are dismissed, of course. Mr. WILLARD, of Vermont. Does changing the names of these 

officers affect their salaries at all T 

Mr. SCOFIELD. It does not j.n the least. They are now called 

fu t and second engineers ; if this bill shall pass they will hereafter 

be called assistant and passed assistant engineers. Mr. COX. · I have received a letter from a gentleman connected 

with the Navy in this position, and he is in favor of the present designation of the e engineers. He gives no rea Qn except his love of 

precedent and of the service, but objects to any other name. Mr. SCOFIELD. I think the gentleman is mistaken. 

Mr. COX. I am not; I have just looked at the letter. Mr. SCOFIELD. I have here a recommendation of this change 

signed by nearly every engineer in the service-every one that could 

be reached. Gentlemen can see how large a package it makes. [Holding up a bundle of papers.] This is a specimen of their recommen- dation: 

I beg to express my approval of the proposed change of title from first assistant 

enginee?-' to passed assistant engineer, and from second assistant engineer to assist. ant engmeer. · 

The recommendation has been sent out to all the engineers in the 

service that could be reached, and they have invariably signed it, and 

expressed their approval of it. They cannot possibly object to it, 

because it is in their interest. 

Mr. COX. I do not propose to object to the first section of this "bill, 

but I would like to have some good rea-son given for it. I cannot see any reason for making the change. The engineer who corresponded 

with me seemed to take some pride in the office and in the name of 

the office, which had been so honorably filled by his predecessors, and 

which honor he seemed desirous of sharing. 
1640 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, FEBRUARY 10, 

1\ir SCOFIELD. The gentleman has probably misread the letter. 

The ~ld title was what we propose to make ~t now. That was 't~e name of honor from past services, and the engm.s~rs want to haye It 

restored. . Mr. COX. I do nnt like to object to ~bill that li_~ been matured 

by a committee of this Rouse. . . . .Mr. HAZELTON, of Wisconsin. The prootical e:ffem; of. this bill 

will be to reduce by o~~ha~ the number of students educated a engineers. 

Mr. SCOFIELD. It will, probably, unless we enlarge the number 

of the claas. The Secretary has some little discretion about it. I ask 

for a vote. 

The bill was then read the third time, and passed. 

Mr. SCOFIELD moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was pa-osed ; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

GREEN BAY AND LAKE MICHIGAN SHIP-CANAL. 

Mr. SAWYER. I aak unanimous consent to take up and put upon 

its passage the bill (H. R. No. 447) extending the time for the completion of the Green Bay and Sturgeon Bay and Lake Michigan ShipCanal in the State of Wisconsin. This bill has the unanimous approvai of the Committee on the Public Lan.cls. . The bill was read. It provides that the time for the completwn of 

the Green Bay aud Sturgeon Bay and Lake Michigan Ship-Canal be 

extended to the lOth day of April, 1876. 

Mr. HOLMAN. As I stated on yesterday, inasmuch as this grant 

of land is for the purpose of. creatin.g a free canal for the wh~le 

country, I shall not object to Its comrng before the. H~use now for 

consideration. 

Mr. SAWYER. This bill is unanimously reco~ended by the C~mmittee on the Public Lands. 

No objection being mad~, the bill was ?rdered to be.engrossed and 

read a third time; and berng engrossed, It waa ~ccordingly read the 

third time, ana passed. 

Mr. SAWYER moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was 

passed ; and also moved that the motion tC! reconsider be laid on th~ 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

EXPORTATIO~ OF DISTILLED SPIRITS. 

Mr. BURCHARD. I rise to a privileged report, andre_l)ort fro~ the 

Committee on Ways and Means a bill to facilitate tb,e expor~ation of 

distilled spirits and amendatory of the act in relation thereto. 

The SPEA.KFm. On what ground does the gentleman clf.m that 

this is a privileged report f . 

Mr. BURCHARD. That it is a tax bill, and also that it is ve.ry 

desirable that it should be passed now. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair would be glad to entertain the bill, but 

be cannot admit that it is a privileged report. The Chair does not 

know any rule under which it would be a privileged .report. ' 

Mr. BURCHARD. It is a bill affecting the revenue. The SPEAKER. The Chair only calls attention to the matter be- cause it may be a very important precedent in the order of business 

in the House. 

1\fr. BURCHARD. Of course, if there is a:qy objection to its con- sideration at the present time, I do not claim t.hat it is p~vileged 

for consideration. It is a bill, however, that b:;ts been exammed. by 

the Committee on Ways and Means, and I was mstructed some time 

since to report it and ask its pa-ssage now. Mr. BUTLER, of l\Iassoobusetts. Does not the rule require that 

this bill shall receive its :first consideration in Committee of the 

WholeY 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman asks unanimous consent to have 

it considered in the House. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I object to that. I ask that it be 

referred to the Committee of the Whole. . Mr. BURCHARD. I ask that the bill be printed, and recommitted 

to the Committee on Ways and Means. . No objection being made, the bill (H. R. ~o. 2081) was rece~ved, 

read a first and second time, ordered to be prrnted, and recoillillltted 

to the Committee on Ways and Means. 

The SPEAKER. In regard to the ~ill just recommitted t:Jle C~air 

desires to say, that all measures relating to revenue or the Imposmg 

of taxes in any way, when they come from the Committee on Ways 

and Means, may be reported at any time for commitment, but for no other purpose. 

TOPOGRAPHICAL SURVEY OF CAPITOL GROUNDS. 

Mr. SESSIONS. I ask unanimous consent to report back from t~e 

Committ ee on Public Buildings and Grounds Senat-e bill No. ~60, 

making un appropriation for ~ topographical survey of the. Capitol crrountls and plans for improvrng the same; and ask that It be re- ferred to the Committee of the Whole on the Private Calendar. 

No objection being made, it was ordered accordingly. · 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

The SPEAKER. The morning hournowbegins at half-pa-st twelve 

o'clock.. Reports are still in order from the Committee on the Judi- .ciary. 

~~OVAL O!f CAUSES Jl'RO¥ STATE COURTS 19 U~TED ~TATES COURTS. 

Mr. POLAND, from the Committee on the Judiciary, reported a bill 

(H. R. No. 2082) regulating the removal oi causes from the Statt} 

courts to the courts of the United States; w.hich was read a first and 

second -time. 

The bill was read. 

The :first section provides that in all eases where by law any part.y 

to an action pending in a Sta~ court has a right t? reJ?QVe the sa~~ 

into the cu:cuit court of the Umted States, the application therefor, U 

made bytb5 plaintifi', shall be made a ... the term of the State. court t o which the •·rocess by which the suit is commenceQ. is made return.al>k; 

and if suCl::- s.pplication for removal is made by a defendant, the saru ' 

shall be fil'?"l prior to the time when by law thE> plaintiff therein 

would be entitled to a judgment by default. 

'l'b.o flecond section provides that, in addition to t.he conditions no,,-

requ.ii'ed by law of the paryy seeking su~hremoval, h!3 shall giye goAd 

and sufficient surety that if be shall fail to enter sru.d cause m ncb 

circuit court on the first day of its session next su~ceeding such re- moval or if such cause shall by said circuit coucli be remand.ed to tht. 

State ~ourt by reason of not being entered by the party asking for 

the removal, or because the same was illegally or improperly ordered 

to be removed, he shall pay to the other party all .such costs as are sustained by him by rea"'on of such removal; and if the party procuring such order of removal of a cause. shall ~ot dnly.enter ~b.e same in such circuit court on the first day oflts sesSlon, the opposrng party 

may docket such cause in the circuit court witb a certificate of the 

order removing said cause, from the clerk of the State court from 

which the same was removed; and said. court shall thereupon order 

the same to be remanded to the State court; and in such ca e, and 

also whenever such circuit court shall remand any cause to a State 

court from which it was removed fox; the reason that the same was illegally or improperly removed, said circuit court shall proceed to 

tax the costs of the ~arty not a-sking such removal, and the same shall be duly certified by the clerk thereof, and shall be recov:erable 

uP.on the bond given on such removal. 

The third section provides that in any suit hereafter to be brought 

in any State wher~ the. matte:r in.~~te e~c.eeds the sum of $500, 

exclusive of costs,~ which the plamtiffls a ci~IZenof the State where 

the suit is commenced and the defendant or either of several defendants th~rein is an alien or a citizen of another State, such defendant 

may remove such cause from the State court to the circuit court of 

the United States next to be held in the district in which such cause 

is pending, by filing his app~cation tberefo~ and giving s~curity as provided in the second section, and also filing an affid~v1.t as provided in the act of March 2, 1867; and all the proceedings for and 

upon such application shall be as provided by said act. 

The fourth section provides that the provisions of the. act shall 

apply only to suits commenced after its passage. - :Mr. ELDREDGE. Will the gentleman from Vermont [Mr. POLAND] 

allow me to offer an amendment f 

Mr. POLAND. I will bear what the amendment is. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. It is to strike out the third section of the bill. 

Mr. POLAND. I consent that that amendment may. be offered. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Will the gentleman yield to me for. a . word or two of explanation f 

Mr. POLAND. Certainly. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Mr. Speaker, the third section of this bill provides for bringing in the United States courts what I consider a new cla-ss of cases. At all events the question is in dispu.te; and the most 

that is clai~ed hy those who think the thir~ section _ought to be 

passed is that the question has already been raised, and lS now pending in the courts, to determine whether like ca es are entitled to be 

brought in the United States courts. This bill provide that where one of the defendants is a resident of the State and the other a non- resident' in such cases the action. may be brought in the United States 

courts · 'and if not originally brought there, but in a State court, it 

may b~ removed from the State court into the United States court 

upon an affidavit provided for byt~ bill,_wherevero~e of~be defendants is a nou-re ident of the State m which the action IS brought. 

This provision is new, and it is one which it seems to me ough.t not 

to be adopted. In the :first place the United States court~ ar~ now crowded with business, especially the Supreme Court. With five or six hundred ca es pending when the courts adjou.rn, and the courts 

unable to dispose of the cases now pending, this provision will tend 

to increa e the number of cases. Again if this provision be adopted, many cases may, by trick or fraucl b~ removed from the State courts on the grol!llq.. that a defendll.nt i~ a noh-iesident, when in fact he lias sim-ply been induced to 

consent to be a d~fendant in order that the case may be so removed. 

A person having an action against a single individual, a resident of 

the State, may, by co~vance, by fraud, ~I· arrangeme~t>y.i$. a. non- resident have him consent to have the actwn brought aga,rns hjm as one of the defendants, he ~aking ~o objection; an~ th~n, O{\ a~ affidavit that be is a non-resident, this defendant, acting m consprracy 

and fraud \-vith the plajntiff, may have the c~e transferred from ~be 

State court.to the United States court. 

Now, at a glance it can be seen this provision ~ught not to .be 

adopted; and it is for that rl?ason I have moved to strike ou~ thf\ th.u·a 

section of the act, beca.use 1.t not only crowds the courts, rncreasrng 

the number of United States cau&_es in the Uni~eil. States Supr~me 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1641 

Court necessarily, but because it provides means whereby cases. :rpay 

be fraudulently removed from the State courts into the U~~ St~t~ 

courts. 

Mr. BUl'LER~ of Ma.asachusetts. Will the gentleman from Vermont yield to me for a moment T 

Mr. POLAND. Certainly. MI. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. Mr. Speaker, the exact state of 

the p,rovisions of this section is this. I believe it to be the law now. One judge of a circuit court has decided it to be the law. The ques- ~io,n is now before the Supreme Court. It is intended to meet this 

evil. In order to prevent a citizen of another State going into the 

United States courts in many of the States, they insert in the writ 

t4e name of ~ resident . When they sue they insert in the writ, with 

the naine of a non-resident, the name of a resident, so as to prevent, 

under the old judiciary a~t, suit being removed; and then when they 

get to trial they disoontinue as to the resident and go on against the 

foreigner .... In some Stat.es that makes a great hardship and great 

wrong, and takes away the jurisdiction of the United States courts. 

The constitutional provision is familiar to everybody, but I will 

refer to it. The judiciary power extends to controversy between two or more States, between a State and citizen of another State, and between citizens of different States. Now, can it be said there is no controversy pending between two citizens of different States because 

the plaintiff has inserted the name, rightfully or wrongfully, of a citizen of the same State'!' Let me give you a case. A mancomesfrom 

Illinois to Massachusetts, an(l the man from Massachusetts has a suit 

against him. He sues the citizen of Illinois and joins a Massachusetts man as defendant with him. Under the judiciary act that suit would 

be removed into the United States court, and when it comes to trial 

he can ilisoontinue against the Massachusetts man and go on against 

the Illinois man. Now, no wrong is done to the Ma.asachusetts man by either party to the controversy in taking him up to the United 

States court, because he is tried by a Ma.asachusetts jury in the State 

of Massachusetts. He is tried in the Federal court, but he is tried by 

the same class of jurors as are in the State courts. But the Illinois man has not the right of appeal to the Supreme Court in case he is 

wronged by the Massachusetts law. 

In the South, I am informed by gentlemen from there, when they 

want to get a northern man within the jurisdic1ion of the State court 

they insert a defendant t9 keep him out of the United States court. 

!fl.r. HALE, of Maine. Will the gentleman from Massachusetts state 

if, under the present law in the case he supposes, where one of the 

defendants had been struck out, leaving the other a non-resident, the 

non-resident could move for a transfer of the suit to the United States 

court f 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. He couldnot. 

Mr. HALE, of Maine. My question applies to the law as it now exists. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. He cannot. It used to be under 

the old law. This bill provides, in order to prevent the whole case from going there before the transfer is made, that the transfer shall 

be made at the time. 

Mr. HALE, of Maine. Under the old law T 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. Under the old law he could get 

out. Now we are making a provision to cut off the right of transfer 

at that time, so a man shall not go on litigating his case in the State 

court, and then turn around and transfer before final judgment against 

him. .A.t any time now before final judgment it can be transferred 

when between the cit~ens of one State and the citizens of another 

State. -

There is a similar provision in cases affecting ambassadors and other 

public ministers, &c. There the United States Supreme Court can have original jurisdiction. In ca es of controversy, where we sue an ambassador by joining a citizen of the United States with him, do we thereby keep him out of the Supreme Court 'I Clearly not; but we should have some legislation to meet that case if any such should 

arise. This legislation is meant to meet that ca e. We simply provide that by the mere joining of another party with him yon shall not 

keep him out of the United States court. Judge Shepley, of the fir t 

circuit, had decided, after very full argument by \ery able counsel, 

that this is the law now; and that case is before the Supreme Court. To remove those doubts and have a uniform law all over the United 

States this provision is inserted. Mr. E. R. HOAR. I ask that the section which it is moved to strike 

out may be again re,ad. The third section was again read. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. This is, in my judgment, a matter of extreme 

general importance, ap.d I wish to state to the House frankly and fully 

the connection I have with the quest ion before I proceed to make any 

remarks on it. I had considered this question as counsel for a party ; 

but as this will have no bearing, so far as I am aware, upon that case, 

which ha& already gone nearly to its decision, that will not, I suppose, 

make it improper for me to statewhatviewi entq:tain as a matter of 

law. 

This section, un,der the· clause in the Constitution which gives the 

Federal courts, the judicial power of the United States, jurisdiction over controversies between citizens of different States, proposes to give the power to one defendant who may be a party, or one of the component parts of a party, to the controversy, without the will of the other 

parties to the controversy, to remove the suit to the United States 

court. It is a very grave question whether that is consistent with 

the Constitution o~ the. United States. Whether it was so consistent. or P,c;>t ~ h,ad the honor of arguing, about a month ago, before the 

Supreme Court, with very distinguished counsel on the other side. An 

opinion, as I understand, will be delivered upon that question a week 

from next Monday by the court. 

It has been stated truly that Judge Shepley, of th~ circp.it court 

for New Enp;land, has decided under an existing law-,-the statute of 

1867-that such removal could take place., No gentleman exceeds me in the respect I have for the professional ab¥ity and Judicial character of that eminent gentleman. Stating that fact, hqwever, is not 

stating to the House quite the whole of the judicial au,thority upon 

the subject; and I state to the House that Judge Shepley, of t_he first 

circuit court, is the only judge or tribunal in the United States, so far as by the most <Uligent search I can ascertain, that has so held · and 

the contrary has been held by the State courts of sey~D; States, including my own State of Ma sachusetts, and by two. of the circuit courts 

of the United States, the circuit court for New York, and the circuit 

court including Iowa. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I ask the gentleman which are the 

other States of the seven tQ which he refers T 

!tl.r. E. R. HOAR. New York, Ma sachusetts, Georgia, Alabama. I 

do not know that I can repeat them all. I think, Wisconsin and Iowa. I cannot undertake to say, and will not say, that the number is e~actly 

seven. But I will say this to the House, that every State that has 

passed upon the question throughout the Unj.ted. States, it was con- ceded in ·the argument before the Supreme Court by COl1DSel on both 

sides after the mpst diligent search, had decided the other way. Judge 

Dillon, of the circuit court of Iowa, and Judge Blatchford, holdil;lg 

the circuit court in New York, had also decided the other way. And 

up to the time of Judge Shepley's decision the judicial decisions were uniform. It would seem to me that under those circumstan_ces, with 

the question awaiting immediate decision in the. Supreme Court of the 

United States, it is hardly expedient for this House to. take up this 

question, and that upon a bill which is not yet printed, which mem- bers ought to have an opportunity to study carefully, and which I 

have myself never seen, having only heard it re~d at the Clerk's desk. 

I think that such a bill ought not to be instantly or hastily passed. 

I do not even understand whether it receives the unanimous approbation of the Judiciary Committee. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. It does not. 

!tl.r. E. R. HOAR. It is intimated to me that the proposition does 

not receive the unanimous approbation of the Judiciary Committee. 

Mr. B TLER, of Massachusetts. It does not. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. And therefore there seems to me the more rea- son that it should be more deliberately exa:ririned, and that a greater 

opportunity be allowed to consider it. ' 

The history of the legislation on this subject is very brief. Under 

the first judiciary act of the oonntry, which provided that the United 

States courts should have jurisdiction of suits between citizens of 

different States-using the word "suits," and not" controver ies"-

all the Federal courts decided that every par:ty,, plaintiff or defendant, must be competent to sue or be sued by all the parties oppo ing 

him ; that is, that they must be all citizens o:f different States. 

Mr. McCRARY. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him whether 

the decision was based upon the Constitution or the. judiciary act 

itself'/ 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. Upon the judiciary act only. The only point that 

would involve the Constitution would be whet.her the word "controversies" in the Constitution and the word "suits" in the judiciary 

act were intended to be equivalent to each othf:lr, and were sou. eel by 

tho men who, having participated in the framipg of the Constitution, 

proceeded to pass the general laws necessary to carry it;; general policy into effect. • I pass, as not having anything to do wit~ the question, the variou 

acts that have been passed in relation to jurisdiction derived from 

the subject-matter by partie a officers of the United State 1 on matters done and performed on behalf of the United States; forrnstance, in regard to the Pacific Railroad and other corporations created by 

the United States, which stand on an entirely different ground. But 

Congress, in 1866, undertook t(l provide for the rem.ova,.l of causes where one defendant only was a citizen of adifrerent State and where 

all were not. .A. defendant who was a citizen of a different State from 

the plaintiff might remove the cause, proVided the case was capable 

of division, so that the controversy might be carried on against him, 

leaving the rest of the Sl+it in the State cour.ts. I suppo eat the time 

that was passed that was considered to be as far as it co11ld be con- stitutionally done. 

In 1867 an act was pa ed to enable the plaintiff to remove the suit, 

which act was open to the objection that my colleague [~l.r. BUTI¥R] 

has stated very forcibly, that the plaintiff could remo e it at any 

time. I understand this bill propo es to limit that so that the removal 

shall be done seasonably, and with that I entirely concur~ Theobjectof 

that statute was apparently to enable the plaintifi' to remove th~ ·suit; 

for the language used wa.s that either party, the plaintiff or the defend- · ant, being non-resident, could remove the suit. ' 

:hit:. I!OLA}\1). I should be very glad to yield longer to my :fri,.end 

fx:om Ma~sachusetts, [Mr. E. R. HoAR,] but this is our last morning hour, and one-half of it is gone, and we have a great press of business. Mr. E. R. HOAR. I move that the bill be printed and reoommitted. 
1642 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

Mr. POLAND. I consent to that. 

The SPEAKER. That will be done if there is no objection. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Ma-ssachusett . I enter the motion to reconsider 

the recommittal. And now I yield to my colleague on the commi,ttee, 

the gentleman from Alabama, [Mr. WmTE.] 

lli. E. R. HOAR. I desire to make a parliamentary inquiry. Can a motion be made to reconsider a vote that has not yet )>een passed 

by the House f 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. BUTLER] 

who makes the motion to reconsider has the floor; and, if he desires, 

he can proceed to debate it, because that motion is as broad a-s the 

ori(J'inal motion. If he yields the floor, then a motion can be made to 

lay0the motion to reconsider on the table. 

Mr. POTTER. I move to lay it on the ta.ble. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. I did not understand that the motion to recommit was agreed to. · The SPEAKER. The Chair heard no objection. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusett-s. If I have the floor I now yield 

to the gentleman from Alabama, [Mr. WmTE.] 

The SPEAKER. For what purpose f 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. To report some bills from the 

Committee on the Judiciary. The SPEAKER. That cannot be done. The gentleman from 

Massachusetts, [Mr. E. R. HoAR,] who occupied the floor by leave of 

the gentleman from Vermont, [Mr. PoLAND,] who reported the bill, 

moved that it be printed and recommitted. To that motion the Chair 

heard no objection. Then the gentleman from Massachusetts, the 

chairman of the Committee on the Judiciary, [Mr. BUTLER,] said 

that he entered a motion to reconsider that vote. The gentleman is 

still upon the floor; no business has· intervened; and the gentleman 

cannot pass to or yield for the consideration of any other business so as to deprive any other gentleman of the opportunity to test the sense of the House by moving to lay the motion to reconsider on the table. 

Mr. BUTJ..ER, of Massachusetts. The reason why I entered the 

motion to reconsider wa-s that my colleague [Mr. E. R. HoAR] had 

said that he had not had time to examine this bill. I was quite 

content that it should he recommitted and printed, in order that the 

House might have an opportunity to examine it. But this is our difficulty: if this bill shall pass out of our control by a motion to recom- mit, and that motion be reconsidered and tabled, we may never be able 

to get it up again. In that way we will be consenting to kill the bill on one motion. I therefore entered the motion to reconsider, in order 

that hereafter I might have the opportunity to bring it ag5rin before 

the House. 

The SPEAKER. When the gentleman entered the motion to recon- sider, the Chair understood that there was general consent all around 

to the arrangement, and that would leave the bill in the control of 

the gentleman to bring it up hereafter. 

:Mr. E. R. HOAR. I certainly should not object to that. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair said that he heard no objection to it. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. It is to be hoped that fair notice will be given 

when it is to be called up. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. Certainly. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Can a bill be printed pending a motion to 

reconsider f 

The SPEAKER. ...,.. Certainly; the motion to reconsider applies to 

the recommitment. The Chair will state, for the information of the 

House, that after the motion to recommit had been agreed to, had some other gentleman been recognized, and then he had yielded to 

the gentleman from Massachusetts to enable him to enter the motion 

to reconsider, that could not have been followed by a motion to lay the 

motion to reconsider on the table. But no business whatever intervening, and the motion to reconsider being pending, any gentleman 

had the right to move to lay the motion on the table• before the House 

proceeded to the consideration of any other business. But the Chair 

understood that it- was generally a~eed tha't the motion to recon- sider might be entered in the J ourna1. 

Mr. POTTER. I consider the most of this bill as valuable, all ex- cept the third section. I think the third section is very C.angerous. 

Under the suggestion of the chairman of the committee, [Mr. BUTLER,] that under the motion to reconsider the recommitment he will 

bring this bill again before the House at some time when it can be 

fully considered, I will withdraw the motion to lay it on the table. 

The SPEAKER. The motion to reconsider will be entered upon 

the Journal. PRINTING THE BANKRUPT LAW. 

Mr. G. F. HOAR. There is a great demand for the Senate bankrupt 

bill, and all the copies heretofore printed being entirely exhausted, 

I ask unanimous consent that it may be reprinted. 

No objection was made, and it was ordered accordingly. 

WESTER...~ JUDICIAL DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I now yield to the gentleman from Alabama, [Mr. WIDTE,] my colleague on the Committee on the 

Judiciary. 

Mr. WHITE, from the Committee on the Judiciary, reported back, 

with the recommendation that the same do pass, the bill (H. R. No. 

225) to amend the act entitled "An act to establish the western judicial district of North Carolina." 

The question was upon oruering the bill to be engrossed and read 

the third time. 

The bill was read. It provides that section of the act of June 4, 

1872, entitled "An act to establish the we tern judicial district of North 

Carolina," be amended, by adding thereto the following: "There shall 

also be appointed a marshal of the United States for said western district 

of North Carolina, who shall receive such fee and compensation, and 

exercise such powers and perform such duties, as are fixed and enjoined 

by law." 

Mr. ·wiLLARD, of Vermont. I make the point of order that this 

bill, containing an appropriation, mu t go to the Committee of the 

Whole. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair sustains the point ; the bill is so re- ferred. 

CONGRESSl\iEN AT LARGE FOR ALABAMA. 

Mr. WHITE from the Committee on the Judiciary, reported back a bill (H. R. No. SB6) to provide for the election of Congressmen at Large 

for the State of Alabama. 

The bill was read. It provides that the two additional Representatives to Congress allowed to the State of Alabama according to the 

apportionment under the ninth census may be elected by the State at 

large, and the other Representatives to which the State is entitled by 

the districts as now prescribed by law in said State, unless the General Assembly of Alabama shall otherwise provide before the time 

fixed by law for the election for Representatives to Congress from 

said State. 

Mr. WHITE. In explanation of this bill, I will state that by the 

apportionment act of the last Congress the State of Alabama was allowed two additional Representatives; and provision was made for 

their election in the State at la.r(J'e for the Forty-third Congre . Since 

that time the Legislature of A~abama, because of the bet that one branch is democratic while the other is republican, has been unable 

to redistrict the State. The districts remain as they were, being only 

six in number; and without the passage of such a bill as this by Congress the State will be deprived of two Representatives that we h:1ve 

been by law declared entitled to. 

l\1r. COX. Will the gentlem~ from Alabama [Mr. WmTE] allow me to ask him a question? · Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir. . Mr. COX. I believe _the gentleman is now a member at large from 

the State of Alabama 'f 

Mr. WHITE. Yes,·sir. 

l\1r. COX. Was not the gentleman elected under the apportionment act of the last Congress f 

l\1r. WHITE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. COX. Then what is the necessity for the passage of another 

lawf 

Mr. WHITE. Because the law of the last Congress provided for 

the election of Representatives at large to the Forty-thi.rd Congress 

only. Underthe ninth census Alabama is entitled to eight Representatives; but she has only six districts. The State was not redistricted 

at 1ihe la.st session of the General Assembly. This bill simply provides 

for an election for Representatives at large in the next Congress, 

thus giving the State the full number to which she is entitled. 

Mr. POTTER. Mr. Speaker, the existing law requires that the St:1tes 

shall be redistricted according to population. The difficulty with 

Alabama is, that being entitled to two more Representatives than she 

has districts, she will not reili trict the State and..make di tricts for new members. The law of the last Congre made provision only for 

the election of members at large to the pre ent Congress, in order, if 

I understand the policy, to compel the States to redistrict so that the 

districts might be nearly equal in population. If a State will not do 

this I am unable to see why she should not remain without the additional representation. 

Mr. WHITE. The difficulty in the case arises from the fact that one branch of the Legislature is democratic and the other republican. 

The matter was brought to the attention of the General Assembly, 

and action upon it urged by the governor; but these two boilies have 

been unable to agree. The question now submitted to the House is 

whether in consequence of this failure to agree, and when there is no reasonable prospect of agreement, the State of Alabama shall be 

deprived in the next Congress of a part of the representation to which 

she is w.nder the law entitled. 

Mr.l\f.AYNARD. Inasmuch as the Legislature of Alabama is unable 

to redistrict the State by its own action, would it not be better to 

bring in a bill to redistrict the State by act of Congress, so that 

there may be one Representative for each district'f 

l\1r. ·wHITE. I do not know that that would be objected to; but no proposition of that kind is before the House. No body of men and 

no one man can reasonably be charged with the responsibility for this 

failure to redistrict the State. 

Mr. BROMBERG. I wish to ask my colleague one question. How 

many Legislatures have had this question under consideration alreadyT 

Mr. WIDTE. Only one. Mr. BRO~IBERG. It has been under consideration at three different sessions. When I was in the senate of that State this very question was under consideration. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. Why did you not redistrictf 

Mr. BROMBERG. I waa not on the committee appointed for thai 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1643 

purpose; but the question was before us. Since then the Legislature 

has met twice; yet the two branches cannot agree. It is evident 

that somebody wants to gerrymander. 

Mr. HAYS. Allow me to ask the gentleman how long the State of 

Alabama has been entitled to eight Representatives t 

Mr. BROMBERG. I only know that when I sat in the senate of 

the Stat~ in 1872 the question. of redistricting the State was then 

already before us. Mr. HAYS. The State was not then entitled to these additional 

Representatives. 

Mr. WIDTE. The question could not possibly have been before 

the senate at that time, because the State was not then entitled to 

this additional representation. 

Mr. BROMBERG. Theywere notableto agreethen,and they have never been able to agree since. If we are to wait until some one party gets the control of that Legislature we shaU always have these 

two Congressmen at large, because the State of Alabama is so con- stituted that parties will always be almost equally divided in that 

Legislature. Democrats and republicans will wait in vain if they 

expect to wait until one party or the other shall get control of the 

Legislature and fix up the districts to suit themselves. They must 

agree to some compromise; they must settle upon some fair and impartial distribution of the districts. 

Mr. W. R. ROBERTS. Does the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. 

BROMBERG] want his State to be deprived of part of its representation on this floor f 

:Mr. BROMBERG. I want the people of my State represented in 

a proper way. I do not want to have certain districts "left out in 

the cold." 

Mr. W. R. ROBERTS. If the State will not act, why should the 

gentleman object to the regulation of the matter by Congress! 

Mr. BROMBERG. Because I think the Legislature should be compelled to come to some agreement. 

Mr. WIDTE. I do not yield any further. I call the previous question on the bill. 

The previous question was seconded and the main question ordered; 

and under the operation thereof the bill waa ordered to be engrossed 

and read a third time; and being engrossed, it was accordingly read 

the third time, and passed. · Mr. WHITE moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

CREDITORS OF THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAB. 

Mr. WHITE also, fmm the same committee, reported back a joint 

resolution (H. R. No.9) authorizing the Secretary of the Treasury to 

pay over to the State of Texas the balance remaining of the fund 

appropriated by the acts of September 9, 1850, and February 28, 1855, 

for the payment of the creditors of the late republic of Texas, with 

the recommendation that it do paas. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. That must go to the Committee 

of the Whole on the state of the Union. 

?t1r. HERNDON. I do not think the point of order is well taken. 

This does not propose the appropriation of any money. I hope the 

gentleman will allow me to make a short statement. I believe the 

Chair will see that it is not subject to the point of order. . The SPEAKER. On what ground is it not subject to the point of 

orderf 

Mr. HERNDON. It is upon this ground. The amount sought to 

be refunded to the State of Texas was specified by the appropriation 

made on the 2dth day of February, 1855, and that sum has remained 

in the Treasury ever since. The limitation upon it ha ceased, and 

this is simply to refund that amount to the State of Texas. It is 

already in the Treasury, and set apart for this very purpose. 

The SPEAKER. The rule reads, "or authorizes the payment out of an appropriation already made." This would come certainly under 

that provision. 

The joint resolution waa referred to the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union. 

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURTS IN LOUISIANA. 

Mr. WIDTE also, from the same committee, reported back a bill 

(H. R. No. 107) for the better organization of the district courts of 

the United States within the State of Louisiana, with the recommen- dation that it do paas. 

?t1r. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I make the point of order against 

that bill. 

The SPEAKER. It provides for a new office, and therefore for a salary, and must go to the Committee of the Whole on the state of 

the Union. It will be so referred. 

DEBTS CONTRACTED BEFORE THE WAR. 

Mr. WHITE. I am instructed by the Committee on the Judiciary 

to report a substitute for House bill No. 525, House joint resolution 

No. 11, and House joint resolution No. 18, repealing certain laws and 

parts of laws therein mentioned, and to move that the substitute be 

printed and recommitted, with leave to the committee to r eport at 

any time. The SPEAKER. This bill has not the proper title. The title indicates nothing at all. 

?t1r. wHITE. I am instructed to r eport back a substitute for a certain bill and joint r esolutions of the House, to repeal certain laws 

and part£ of laws. 

The SPEAKER. The bill will be r eceived as an original bill, bnt 

it should have a title to state exactly what the bill provides. Mr. WHITE. I will report it as an original bill (H. R. No. 20· :n 

providing for paying the debts and bounties upon contracts made n,atl 

for service'S rendered previous to the 14th of April, 1861, by persons 

engaged in the r ebellion. 

The bill was read a first and second time. 

?t1r. WHITE. I move that the bill be printed and recommitted, 

with leave to the committee to report at any time. 

fr. MAYNARD. Would the effect be, if we give leave to the com: mittee to report at any time, to make this a special order whenevo.r 

the committee shall choose to bring it up on their own motion Y 

The SPEAKER. It will; but it requires unanimous con ent. The 

right to report at any time carries with it the right to consider at 

any time. · 

lli. MAYNARD. Instead of granting leave to the committee to 

report at any time, had not the committee better fix some time when 

it will bring it up for consideration Y 

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to granting leave to the com- mittee to report at any time' 

?t1r. COX. If they report it back with a different title, would it 

affect the motion Y 

The SPEAKER. It would not. Is there objection Y 

Mr. COBURN. I object. Let it come up in its regular order. 

The bill was ordered to be printed and recommitted. 

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA. 

?t1r. CESSNA, from the Committee on the Judiciary, reported back a bill (H. R. No. 541) to provide for a district and circuit court of the 

United States for the northern district of P ennsylvania, with the 

recommendation that it do pa s. Mr. NEGLEY. I make the point of order against the bill. The SPEAKER. The point of order is well taken, and the bill will 

be referred to the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union. 

FEES OF UNITED STATES MARSHALS. 

Mr. CESSNA also, from the same committee, reported back a bill 

(H. R. No. 780) requiring the ·United States marshals and clerks of 

the United States circuit and district courts, who have received fees 

and emoluments in exce s of their legal compensation, to deposit the same with the Treasurer of the United States, with a sub titute. 

The Clerk r ead the substitute, as follows: 

Strike out all after the enacting clause and insert: The United States marshals and clerks of the Unitefl States circuit and district courts of the several States and Territories be, and they are hereby, directed to 

forward without delay to the Secretary of the Treasury a report of the proceedings in bankruptcy, and all other proceedings in equity and chancery growing out of the same, with the co t thereof; and the ecretary of the Treasury is nereby author- ized and required to prepare such blank forms for thi purpo e as will enable them to make said r eport full and uniform. SEc. 2. That where the said reports show or where it appears that any of said marshals or clerks have received fees and emoluments of their re peotive offices, of every name and character, in excess of their maximum compensation a provided 

by law, and have failed to deposit the same, the Secretar,y of the 'l'reasury, through the Departmont of Justice, shall require them to immediately deposit the said ex- cess in the Treasury of the United States; and for this purpose the Secretary may designate two or more suitable employes of the Treasury Department a special agents to examine the books, account , and reports of sa1d officers, which agents shall receive for such extra services such compensation as the Secretary of the Treasury shall deem just and proper, payable out of the fees and emolument~:! 

r eceived or collected : Provided however, That no employe, for such services and as e~u ar salary, shall receive more than $5,000 in a periocl of one year. SEC. 3. That in case any clerk or marshal shall neglect or r efuse to deposit any such excess of fees anrl emoluments as herein directed, the Secretary of the Trea.'l- ury, through the Department of Justice, shall proceed to collect such excess by suit upon tlle official bond of such officer, or by any other process which be may deem most advisable. SEC. 4. That any officer who shall neglect or refuse to deposit with the Treasurer of the United States any excess of fees and emoluments of office by him r eceived over and above the maximum allowed by law, shall be deemed _guilty of embez- zlement of the money so withheld, and on conviction thereof shaU'bc punished by 

imprisonment and h ard labor for a term not less than one year, nor more than ten years, or by fine of not les than 1,000, nor more than the amount embezzled, when the sum exceeds $1,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment. 

Mr. CESSNA. If there is no objection raisecl to the con ideration 

and passage of the bill I will ask the previous question. But if any 

gentleman desires to oppose it, or to make any inquiry in regard to 

it, I am willing to yield for that purpose. 

1r. SPEER. Will the gentleman yield to me for a moment ' ~1r. CESSNA. Yes, sir. lli. SPEER. The bill reported by my colleague covers, perhaps, in 

the main, the ground I had in view in introducing there olution of 

instruction to the Judiciary Committee on Monday last. It appears 

by the last report of the Attorney-General that there are certain clerks 

of United States courts that have persistently refused to make re- turn of the amount of fees and perquisites that come into their hands 

in pursuance of law. And I am credibly informed that the fees and. 

perquisite of some of the clerks amount to .the enormous sum of 

100,000 annually. The fees are most enormous. Under the (>.:x:i ting 

laws they are required to report the amounts of these fees and perquisites to the Attorney-General, but they have refused to do so, and 

he has n o authority under the law at present to compel them. He 

states in his report that he has made application to the judges of the 

circuits or districts in which these defaulting officers reside, and that 
1644 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

he has had no response from them, while he has not the authority to 

compel them to obey the law. 

The bill of my colleague goes in the right direction so far as it does 

go. I did not catch from the reading of it whether it applies to those 

officers who are now in default. 

Mr. CESSNA. The bill does apply to all officers in default; but does 

not punish them, as that would be ex post facto legjslation. 

Mr .. SPEER. Does it require them to make returnsf 

Mr. CESSNA. Yes, sir. The bill directs that all in default shall 

be proceeded against for collection, and that the punishment shall 

be added as an infliction or penalty for all cases that may arise hereafter. 

As the morning hour is almost expired, I must insist on calling the 

previous question. The previous question was seconded, and the main question ordered, 

and under tha operation thereof the substitute was a-dopted. 

The bill as amended was ordered to be engrossed and read a third 

tiine; and 1:>eing engrossed, it was accordingly read the third time, 

and passed. ' 

Mr. CESSNA moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

Mr. CESSNA. I am instructed by the Committee on the Judiciary 

to move that they be dischargod from the further consideration of 

House bill No. 32, and also the re olution introduced by my colleague, 

[Mr. SPEER,] directing the committee on the Judiciary to investi~ate 

the cause of failure of certain clerks of courts to pay excess of feesmto 

their respective courts. They embrace tl:le same subject-matter as that 

of the bill ~ust passed. I move that the committee be discharged from 

the further consideration of the bill and resolution I have na.med, 

and that the same be laid upon the table. 

The motion was agreed to. 

ADDITIONAL JUDICIAL DISTRICT IN NEW YORK. 

Mr. POTTER, from the Committee on the Judiciary, reported back, as a substitute for the bill H. R. No. 520, a bill (H. R. No. 20 3) to 

establish an a-dditional judicial district in the State of New York, anu to make further provisions in relation to the courts of the United 

States in the said State; which was read a :first and second time. 

Mr. NEGLEY. I make the point of order on that bill that it contains an appropriation. The SPEAKER. The point of order is good, and the bill goes to 

the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union. 

INDIANA JUDICIAL DISTRICT. 

Mr. WILSON, of Indiana, from the Committee on the Judiciary, 

reported back, with the recommendation that it do pa s, the bill (H. 

R. No. 199 ) to divide the State of Indi'ana into two judicial districts, 

and to provide for the holding of courts of the United States therein; 

which was read a :first and second time, and referred to the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union. 

CLERKS OF UNITED STATES COURTS IN INDIANA. 

Mr. WILSON, of Indiana, also, from the Co1nmittee on the Judiciary, reported back the bill H. R. No. 1235, with an amendment in 

the nature of a substitute. 

The substitute, being a bill (H. R. No. 2084) to provide for the appointment of clerks for the circuit and district courts of the United 

States held at New Albany and Evansville, in the district of Indiana, was received, and rea-d a first and econd time. The bill provides that clerks shall be appointed for the circuit and 

district courts of the United States held at New Albany and Evansville, in the district of Indiana, in like manner and subject to the same duties and responsibilities that other clerks are 'ubject to in other 

independent districts; the deputy clerks at said place shall perform 

the duties of the offices, respectively, till clerks are duly appointed 

and qualified. The bill further provides that the clerks o appointed 

shall be entitled to receive, as compensation for their services, the fees now allowed by law arising out of the business of said courts, and no other compensation. 

The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time ; and 

being engrossed, it was accordingly read the third time, and pas ed. 

Mr. WILSON, of Indiana, moved to reconsider the vote by which 

the bill was passed ; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

PURCHASE OF MONTICELLO. 

Mr . . JEWETT, from the Committee on the Judiciary, reported back 

the bill (H. R. No. 1250) to authorize the purchase of Monticello, formerly the homestead of Thomas J e:fferson; and moved that the committee be discharged from the further consideration of the same, and that 

it be referred to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. 

The motion was agreed to. 

PROCEEDINGS IN MANDAMUS. 

Mr. JEWETT, from the same committee, also reported back, with a recommendation that it do pass, the bill (H. R. No. 1273) to regulate 

proceedings in mandamus. 

The question was upon ordering the bill to be engrossed and read a thir~ time-. 

The bill provides t hat in all Ilroceedings in 111andarnus jn a.ny of 

the courts of the United States, wherein any officer of the United 

States is made a party defendant, but who may die, resign, or be re-. moved from office before the final determination of such proceedings, 

the same may be continued in the name of his successor in said office, 

and such proceedin~. may be had as in case of the death of a party 

defendant during the pending of a suit at law in the proper court; 

and said proceedings in manda11tus shall proceed to a hearing at the same term, unless for good cause shown the court shall continue the 

case, and if a peremptory writ shall be awarded, the same shall and 

may be directed to any successor in office to such person who may 

have so resigned, been removed, or died. The second section provides 

that the act shall take effect and be in force from and after its 

passage. 

·:Mr. MAYNARD. I hope the second section of this bill will be 

stricken out. All laws take effect from and after their passage, unless 

otherwi e specified. It is not necessary to put in that· section. 

:Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. The second section should be 

stricken out. There is no objection to that motion, as that section is 

unnecessary. 

The motion to strike out the second section was agreed to. 

The bill, as amended, was ordered to be engrossed and read a third 

time; and being engrossed, it was accordingly read the third time; 

and passed. 

Mr. JEWETT moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was pas ed ; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. The morning hour has now ex- pired, and with it expires the second morning hour to which the 

Committee on the Judiciary are entitled. There are before our com- mittee two very important bills: one for the distribution of the 

Geneva award, and the other the bankrupt bill with the Senate amend- ments. The committee, on account of their patient hearing of the 

voluminous arguments of those interested in the Geneva award, have 

not yet been able to come to any determination upon the bill. It may 

be months before we shall be again called in our regular order, and 

the claimants are already long kept out of their money. I ask unan- imous consent of the House that, in regard to t.he Geneva award bill 

and the bankrupt hill, the Committee on the Judiciary have leave to 

report at any time; and I pledge myself to the House for the com- mittee that we will not antagonize any special order. 

:Mr. POTTER. And that the House shall have due notice of the 

purpose of the committee to report those bills. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Ma sachusetts. Certainly; we will give due notice 

to the House. We want those bills fully discussed. 

Mr. POTTER. There is no other way by which those bills can be 

considered by the House, and they are very important. 

Mr. DAWES. There is no objection to it, I suppose. 

:Mr. W. R. ROBERTS. I object to any such order, at least in rea-ard 

to the Geneva award bill. 0 

Mr. DEWITT. Should not that bill be considered first in Committee of the Whole Y 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. Why T 

:Mr. DEWITT. It proposes to take money out of the Treasury that 

is now there. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I do not think it can be regarded as an appropriation bill; but. the point of order, if good, can be made 

when reported. 

Mr. W. R. ROBERTS. I think the money is safe where it is, and we can afford to let it r emain there a little longer. I am not in a hurry. 

Mr. POTTER. The gentleman may not be in a hurry; but there is 

such a thing as justice. 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massa-chusetts. I wish to say that the Geneva 

award bill will probably go, I think it is almost certain to go, to the 

Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, when reported. 

Mr. W. R. ROBERTS. What objection has the gentleman to allowing that bill to take its regular course f 

:Mr. BUTLER, of MassachuSetts. Because we will not be called 

again for two months at least, if then. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. It will no.t make much difference whether we are called or not. During the last Congress some committees were not able to report. I have a. bill now which I carried through the 

last Congress without being able to report it, although I was ordered 

to report it to the House. Other matters of no importance are re- ported upon, however. . 

Mr. PACKER. I call for the regular order of business, and that 

the House now proceed to consider the special order, being House bill 

No. 825, providing for the free distribution of printed matter. 

Mr. MAYNARD. If fu order, I desire to move that the rules be sus- pended and the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole. 

The SPEAKER. The bill of the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. 

PACKER] is a special order in the House at the hour of half-past one, 

to the exclusion of all other orders except appropriation bills. 

:Mr. DAWES. A special order in the House; I suppose we can go 

into Committee of the Whole. 

The SPEAKER. The order is that the House will consider it to 

the exclusion of all other orders except appropriation bills. 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. .1645 

Mr. DAWES. If the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. PACKER] 

should not press his bill, I suppose we can go into Committee of the 

Whole on the tax bill. 

Mr. PACKER. A number of gentlemen desire to speak on the bill, 

and we will soon have it out of the way of the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. DAWES.] 

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read the resolution agreed to by 

the House in regard to the post-office bill. 

The Clerk r ead as follows : 

Resolved That the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads be authorized to report House bill No. 825, providing for the free distribution of printed matter, 

&c. on Thursday, February 12, and that it be made the special order for that day at half-past one o'clock, and from day to day thereafter until disposed of, excepting the regular appropriation bills. 

The SPEAKER. Nothing is excepted but general appropriation 

bills. 

Mr. MAYNARD. I risetoaparliamentaryinquiry. Is it not within 

the power of a majority of the House, if they so incline, to suspend 

the rules and 0'0 into Committee of the Whole t 

The SPEAKER. This order was made under a suspension of the 

rules, two-thirds voting therefor. - Mr. MAYNARD. So I understand; but is the effect of the order--

The SPEAKER. That order takes away the power of the House 

to go into Committee of the Whole upon anything except general appropriation bills until this question is dispo ed of. Mr. MAYNARD. I beg to .say that I intended to ask the House 

to-day to re olve itself into Committee of the Whole for the purpose 

of considering the free banking bill; but under the ruling just made 

by the Chair, I am precluded from submitting that motion. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair supposed when the ~entleman .from 

Tennes ee gave his notice to that effect that this bill would be disposed of uefore this time. Mr. MAYNARD. When this bill is out of the way1 I shall still 

endeavor to bring to the attention of the House the bill I have indicated. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will recognize the gentleman at the 

:first practicable moment. 

MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT. 

A. message in writing from the President of the United States was presented by Mr. BABCOCK, one of his secretaries. 

CHANNEL AT THE MOUTH OF THE MISSISSIPPI. 

Mr. NEGLEY, by unanimous consent, presented a memorial of 

ma,rine insurance companies, shippers, ship-owners, pilots, underwriters, and the Tow-boat Association of New Orleans, against military interference with the channel at the mouth of the Mississippi 

River; which was referred to the Committee on Commerce, and 

oruered to be printed. 

TRANSMISSION OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS, ETC. 

The SPEAKER. The House resumes the consideration of the bill 

reported from the Committee on the Post-Office andPost-Roads, a bill 

(H. R. No. 825) to provide for the distributibn of public documents 

printed by the authority of Congress, and of seeds furnished by the 

Agricultural Department, for the free exchange of newspapers between publishers, and for the free transmission of weekly newspapers 

by mail within the county where published. The gentleman from 

Iowa, [Mr. KAssoN] has twenty-five minutes of his hour remaining. 

Mr. SCOFIELD. Inasmuch as the gentleman from Iowa gave a large part of his time to a gentleman speaking on the opposite side of 

the question, I ask unanimous consent that he be allowed his full 

hour. 

Mr. KASSON. I hope I shall not require a full hour, though I may 

need a few moments more than the time to which I am entitled. 

Mr. SCOFIELD. Then I ask that the gentleman may be allowed so much time as he needs to complete hi:s remarks. Mr. GARFIELD. Has any limit been fixed to this debate t 

The SPEAKER. There bas not. 

Mr. GARFIELD. What is the condition of the bill in regard to the 

possibility of amendments t . The SPEAKER. The Chair knows nothing in regard to the disposition of the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. PACKER] in regard 

to the offering of amendments. 

Mr. GARFIELD. Is the motion to recommit pending T -The SPEAKER. It is. 

Mr. ARCHER. The gentleman from Iowa [:Mr. KASSON] yields to 

me that I may state that my colleague, Mr. WILSON, has been detained 

from the House for several days by serious sickness. Mr. TYNER. I desire to say th::~>t I shall not object to an extension 

of the time of the gentleman from Iowa, even to the limit of one hour, if he shall occupy all the time himself ; but if he is disposed to 

"farm out" any portion I shall object to the extension. 

Mr. KASSON. Mr. Speaker, I shall be quite content with whatever 

the House may desire in the matter. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Indiana suggests that he has no objection to an extension of time to the gentleman from I owa for his- own use, but he objects to granting additional time to be 

"farmed out." 

' 

Mr. KASSON. I had not proposed to "farm out" any portion of my 

time except to two or three gentlemen who ask an opportunity to give 

notice of propositions they mtended to make. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair hears no objection to the r equest of 

the gentleman with the limitation stated. 

Mr. KASSON.. By reason of the declaration of the chairman of tho 

committee yesterday, that he did not feel at liberty to allow me to 

offer as a substitute a bill which I have introduced and which ha 

been referred to the committee, I must ask now,in order to sho-w the 

point in part to which I hall speak, that the Clerk read as a·patt of 

my remarks the bill (H. R. No. 1863) which I shall offer as a sul,stitute whenever it maybe in order. I have made two or three-amen.uments of the text of the bill as r eferred. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

A bill providing for the sale and di tribution of public documents, and authorizing the free delivery of newspapers through the mails in the counties of publication. 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Represmtatives of the United States of 

America in Oongress assembled, That hereafter all extra. copies1 beyond the usual 

number printed, of all reports and documents published by oruer of Congre s, or of either Honse thereof, shall be sold and disposed of in the manner provided by 

this act. SEc. 2. That the price of the A,!!l.icultural Report and of the volume known as Abridgment of the President's Message and Accompanying Documents shall be 

twenty-five cents for each volume; and of all other volumes and documents the 

price shall be the actual co t of the paper and binding of the same, which shall be 

certifieil to the Secretary of the Senate and th~ Clerk of the House of Representa- tives, respectively. by the Congressional Printer, ann the price shall be printed on such volume or document. 

SEc. 3. That it shall be the duty of tho Secl'eta.ry of the Senate, or of the Sergeant- at-Arms of the House of Representatives, upon payment to him of the price Of any such volume or document, to cause the same to be addre sed by mail or delivered at the Capitol, as requested; and when sent by mail within the United States no additional charge shall be made for postage thereon; but the saine shall be stamped 

by the officer transmitting the arne in the manner to be provided by the Postmaster- General. And all moneys so r eceived by either of said officers shall be by him paid 

monthly into the Trea,sury of the United Sta.tP.s, and placed to the account of public printing, and an annual report th&reof shall b'e made to Congress by the Secretary of the 'l'rea.sury. SEc. 4. That each of said officers of the Senate and House of Representatives shall open an a{)C()unt with each class of said extra volumes and documents so subject to sale, showing the entire number to be disposed of, and the number each day 

for which he shall have received the price, and the total receipts of that day therefor; and all deliveries thereof shall be matle upon his order addressed to the officer 

of the respective Houses in charge of suoh books and documents, who shall pre- serve the same, subject to the examination of the Committee on Accounts of the 

respective Houses, who shall compare the same from time to time with the accounts of the Sergeant-at-Arms and of the Secretary of the Senate respectively. 

SEC. 5. That in all cases where Congress shall not have otherwise regulated the 

number of extra copies of any such book or document to be printed, the Committees on Printing of the two Houses shall, as a joint committee, determine the nom ber in 

their judgment needed to SUJ.>ply the public demand therefor under the provisions 

of this act; and the Con!ITess10nal Printer, being notified thereof, shall-provitle and 

deliver the number so determined in manner as shall be directed. by said joint com- mittee : Provided, That no new edition shall be ordered by said committee which 

shall require further expense for compositiop, but additional copies may be ordered 

from stereotype plates. SEc. 6. That from and after the beginning of the postal quarter next following the 

approval of th.i.l! act, all weekly newspapers may be deli verBS. free of postal charges through the J?OSt-offices and mails within the county where, at least, two pages thereof are pnnted, and the same are published; but post-office carriers shall not be 

required to distribute such papers unless postage shall have been pa;i.d thereon at the usual rates. SEC. 7. That any person who shall knowingly, and with intent to defraud the 

Government of the United States, make, use, or cause to be used, any of the said 

stamps, or any imitation of the stamp herein authorized to be prepared and used 

for any other purpose, or in any other manner than as is hereihbefore authorized, 

shall, on conviction thereof, be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and be punished 

by a fine of not less than 100 nor more than $1,000, or by imprisonment not less 

than three months nor more than twelve months, or by both fine and imprisonment; 

in the discretion of the court. 

Mr. MONROE. The gentleman from Iowa yields two minute · to 

me, that I may offer an .amendment and say a w01:d or two in regard 

to it. I desire to move to amend the bill by striking out sections 1, 

2, and 4. 

Mr. Speaker, the bill reported by the chairman of the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads looks to the future. It propo es to continue the large and expensive system of public printing which 

has existed in the pa~t. Now, the amendment which I offer proposes 

to strike out all the sections which look to that object. I have 

always had a serious difficulty in rriy own mind in regard to this 

great expense. I notice that gentlemen who have spok.eu in favor of 

this mea ure have asked us to vote to continue this expenditure in 

the interest of the people. Now, sir, that is just the point that I 

would like to have explained. My difficulty in regard to this great mass of public printing has always been just here: I have' always had a difficulty in seeing how it is for the interest of the people. I hope some gentleman who is to follow me will explain this point, I suppose we never send of any of the e public documents to o:ur con- gressional districts more than one book to about twenty~five or t.hirty 

tax-payers. That is my recollection of an estimate I once made in 

regard to one of the reports. And the result is, that when this very 

small portion of tax-payers receive thevolumes, members of Congress 

get large numbers of letters from other tax-payers complaining of this 

inequality. I hope some gentleman who is friendly to the measure 

will show us how this great inequality can be continued in the interest of the whole body of the tax-payers. . Mr. SCOFIELD. The gentleman from Iowa yields to me the same length of time, simply to indicate an amendment which I shall offer 

when I .have opportunity. It is in the eleventh line of the bill, page 

2. In offering it I will simply say that I shall vote aga.in8t the whole 
1646 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY- 19, 

of this bill except the third section, which provides for the free 

transmission of weekly papers in the county where they are published, and newspaper exchanges. I shall vote against the whole of 

this bill, except the thlrd section, which provides for the transmission 

of weekly papers in the county where published, and newspaper 

exchanges free. I will support that, but all the balance I intend to 

vote agains\, in accordance with the pledge the republican party ~ave in convention in Philadelphia in 1872, to abolish the frankmg privilege and to keep it abolished. If it is to pas , I propose 

in the eleventh line to strike out the word "charge," where it provides all these documents, having been properly stamped, shall p ass throu7ch the mails "without chaxge"-I propose to strike out the 

word 'charge," and in lieu thereof to insert "without prepayment 

of postage, but the amount thereof shall be stamped on the wxapper 

and paid by the person receiving the same." 

Mr. KASSON. Now, Mr. Speaker, I wish to call the attent1on of the 

House first to the bill which is offered as a substitute for the bill re- ported by the committee, and I should hardly ask the indulgence of 

the House on this question, ox desire to antagonize the bill reported 

by the committee, except for the fact of my personal and official fan;illiarity with the working of the old franking system; and also from 

my belief that it is important in this instance, as in all others, that 

the House should shape its legislation upon some principle of action 

instead of the mere expediency of the hour. The great danger of con- gressional legislation to-day is in the fact that in the hurry and 

crowd of business, we often utterly fail to look back to the first principles of legislation, upon which every bill should depend, so as to bear 

the test of examination, as a precedent for the future as well as an 

expedient for the present. 

We are told to-day there are accumulated documents in the basement of this Capitol. If that be so, it is not by virtue of any 

resolution which has passed this Congress at the present session. It 

is not by virtue of the old accumulations, for they, by car-loads and 

train-loads, were sent off before the 1st of July la~t. 

Now, sir, there are two systems, one of which, as you accept one principle or the other, should be adopted in respect to public documents furnished by order of the Government. One of these principles 

is to allow every citizen of every political jlarty of the United States an equal right to possess himself of any public document which gives information of the proceedings of any branch of his Government. 

Nobody proposes to give away the records of the transactions of the 

Supreme Court and distribute them among the people as the acts of 

one of the sovereign branches of this Government. Nobody proposes 

to give away any proceedingsexceptthoseconnected with the political 

departments. 

This bill which I have offered as a substitute takes the only ground 

which is equal and just to the people in the distribution of public 

documents; that is, to furnish them at such prices as bring them 

within the range of the mass of t he people of the country and to furnish them upon identically the same t,erms to the entire community. 

That is a principle which will stand the test of examination. It is a principle recognized in every civilized and free government. There 

is not a public document published to-day by order of the Parliament 

of England which is not on sale at a low price, less than the cost 

of it, to all the public who may desire it. But the Congress of the 

United States heretofore has taken different ground until the period 

of the Forty-second Congress. There is nobody in England, not even the Queen of England herself, who is authorized to have an advantage over a private citizen in her communications passing through 

the postal service of that country. 

We began in the early history of this country by giving governors 

of States the right to frank pnh1ic documents and by giving Senators and Representatives the right to frank letters and documents 

not weighing over two ounces. Members and Senators have seen fit 

to let this franking privilege grow, until now you send not only two ounces of mail matter, but you send whole volumes, whole edition_s of books, car-loans of books, in many of which the people take no more interest than they do in old newspapers which lie about their 

rooms. It is characteristic of special privileges, and it is characteristic 

of perquisites, to grow by that they feed on. If we were to look into 

the bosoms of members here-if we had a psychoscope, and could 

sound the moral sense of members, and I might say their political 

sense, I think you would find that thcjinterest of the public in obtaining any of the documents of Congress was not the only motive which 

inspires members to vote for a bill like this. It belongs, Mr. Speaker, 

to that class of subsidies, to that interest of perquisites, which it is the 

duty of all reformers to resist and reduce to the utmost possible extent. 

Now, sir, there is, as I have said, a choice of but two principles of 

action ; and I want neither of them compromised in this Hou e. One 

of those is represented, not by the bill of the committee, but by the 

suggested amendment of the gentleman from New York, [Mr. HALE,] 

and that is to restore the franking privilege, pure, simple, and absolute, on the ground that communications of all sorts between the representatives and the , people should be as free and unobstructed as po sible. And, ou the other hand, antagonized to that is the principle that every citizen, irrespective of his standing as a favorite with a Senator or Member, enabling him to have a book given to him and 

transported free, should have an equal right to go or send his money 

to the place of deposit and obtain any document he desires. , Between 

these two principles there should be no compromise. The report of 

the committee is an attempt to compromise those two principles, and 

deals with the two elements in a mixed way that seems to yield in 

part to the public objection to the restoration of the franking privilege, and at the same time restores it to a degree that is a~ obnoxious as possible to any right principle of action. 

I submit therefore that if gentlemen shape their votes on this occa- si<;>n with reference to any just principle of public action they must 

do one thing or the other. They must restore the franking privilege 

fully, on written as well as printed communications, with the people, or they must put the people on equal terms to obtain access to all 

those public documents which are printed by Congress. 

Now, l\1r. Speaker, after con idering the principle of our action, let us look at the details of the bill. 

I will ask you first to look at the mode of operation, on the principle 

of- sale. We have two documents that are more largely circulated 

than any other. They are the Agricultural Report, of which we have 

ordered heretofore two hundred and fifty thousand extra copies an- nually, and the Abridgment of the President's Message and Accompanying Documents, a volume of nearly the same size. 

Mr. WILLARD, of Vermont. We have ordered in all :five hundred 

thousand copies of the Agricultural Report for two years. l\1r. KASSON. I spoke of the number per annum. Thenumberfor 

two years is over five hundred thousand; for one year two hundred 

and :fifty-five thousand. I do not remember the exact number we have been in the habit of ordering of the abridged edition of the 

President's Message and Accompanying Documents. I think we ordered of those between thirty and !orty thousand copies. 

Now, sir, we have just these two great documents most demanded 

by the people, one with reference to the development of the interest 

of agriculture, and the other giving information to the people of the 

United States on the condition of their Goverument. Tho e two vol- umes this bill proposes to make accessible to everybody who desires 

to read them. The man who wishes them in his library for reference, or to read them, will do as people are daily doing now-will send to 

the disbursing officer, or to us, twenty-five cents, a convenient sum to 

remit so as to get possession of those documents, and that will be paid 

into the Treasury. 

But, sir, if we do not allow them to be thus exposed equally to pur- cha~e by any citizen of the community; if we retain the power of distribution and send them to our own friends, political or personal, only 

those who have the good fortune to have political or personal friends 

in Congress will get them. And, if one not so favored is not periQ.itted 

to go and buy even at the full price; if we absorb all into ourpo es- sion, we practically say that no man in the United States shall have 

knowledge, or if you so please to term it, "information," in regard to 

public affairs, except just so far as we, the members of Congress, will 

allow him to have it. 

What is the effect of it f Why it is simply this: that in the republican districts, representing two-thirds of the United States, but a mere fraction of the political opponents of our party are likely to ~et 

posse sion of this information. And yet they are the very men w no, aa much as any others, if not more than any others, need the information necessary to enable them to criticise the party in power and its 

public action. And in the democratic districts the gentlemen on the 

other side of the House know that they ~nt to oblige their own supporters, and that the republicans in their district have a very 

small share of what you please to term the favors of the Government or of the members of Congress. I say, sir, that this cannot be defended upon any principle except that of subsidies or of perquisites 

of members of Congress. 

Mr. CANNON, of illinois. Will the gentleman yield to me for a question f 

Mr. KASSON. Certainly. 

Mr. CANNON, of Illinois. I understand the gentleman to say that 

he thinks it would be more equitable to allow these reports to be sold, as they are paid for out of the common fund. I ask the gentleman nom Iowa if he intends to defend a measure upon this floor that will secure the publication of enough volumes of these Agricultural Reports to supply every citizen of t he United States with one at twentyfive centiS Y 

:Mr. KASSON. I answer the gentleman emphatically that we do 

want to supply every citizen who thinks the document worth twentyfive cents, and demands a copy. Now we stereotype these documents 

of which I have spoken and some others. 

The entire cost of composition is incurred by printing the few copies 

that we call "the regular number." Consequently, if extra copies :ne printed, no expense is incurred except that for the paper and pre - work, and for binding, if they are bound; therefore, that i all which 

you have to consider as the cost of the document to the public. This 

bill provides that extra copie may be printed from the tereotyped 

plates of any public document until the public demand is satisfied, and furnished to the public at the actual cost, which will be com- paratively small for the reason I have stated. 

Mr. SPEER. Does the printing of the Agricultural Report cost only 

twenty-five cents Y Is not the actual cost sixty-three cents¥ 

Mr. KASSON. I have different st tement~ in regard to that. One 

is that the cost is a little over forty cents, and the other is that it 1a 

sixty cents. The cost varies with the size of t4e docwp.~nt, and aJ.s.q 

depends upon the extent of the edition. 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1647 

.1\fr. SPEER. Then why sell it for twenty-five cents t 

Mr. KASSON. I have given the cost, including the composition, 

which is the great element of cost in the beginning. When you have 

incurred the expense of composition by printing oue single copy, or by 

printing what we call the regular number, then the cost of composition 

is out of the calculation in regard to the number ordered to be printed 

for the use of the people. That is enough to justify the fixing of the 

price at twenty-five cente. But there is another reason, and that is 

to fix the price at a sum which will be convenient for transmission, 

and which will make the document a-ccessible to the people without 

imposing a burden upon them. It is designed to approximate the cost, 

and also to fix a sum convenient for remittance, and to put the documant, if valuable, within the reach of every citizen who may desire 

it. So much in regard to the question of cost and the manner and 

mode of distribution. . The second section of the bill has also a provision in it that the 

price is to be printed upon every document, so that the public may 

know it without special inquiry. 

1\fr. DONNAN. Allow me to correct my colleague [Mr. KAssoN] in regard to the cost of the Agricultural Report. The last official report 

of the Public Printer shows that of the twelve hundred extra copies 

ordered by the Senate, the cost barely for printing, dry-pressing, folding, &c., with binding, amounted to a little upward of $834. That 

would make it about sixty cents per copy, aside from the cost of com- position, which is incurred, as my colleague ha-s said, in the printing 

of the regular number. 

Mr. KASSON. The cost may be more or less. The object of this 

bill, as I have said, is to make these documents accessible to the people, and accessible at less than cost to all people who are interested 

in them. The rule prevails in other countries, and I think it is a good 

principle to be followed in this. 

In the third section I provide for the officers who are to rec~ive this 

money for the documents, and who are the disbursing officers of the two Houses. I want to make it easy for the citizen to address his 

member for a document (or the officer if he chooses) and to send to him 

the price of it, and he will then turn it over to the proper officer, who 

will send the document and credit the money, to be paid at stated 

periods into the Treasury. The labor which distracts us so much 

from the business for which we are mainly sent here is thus put upon 

the working officers of the two Houses, and with equal advantage to 

the people. 

The fourth section relates to keeping the accounts. 

The fifth section relates to the printing of extra copies of documents 

that are stereotyped, by order of the Joint Committee on Printing, 

until the public demand is satisfied. 

The sixth section is the same in substance with that of the bill 

reported from the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads, providing for the free circulation, in the counties of publication, of 

weekly newspapers. 

:Mr. HURLBUT. Will the gentleman explain on what principle he 

permits. county newspapers, and not others, to exercise the franking 

p1'ivilege f · 

1\fr. KASSON. That has never been considered as a franking privilege ; it is not a franking privilege. The Postmaster-General himself never asked for the repeal of that as a repeal of the franking privilege. Congress put it in the bill, shall I say, not as to this body, but as to wme other body, that it was designed as a sort of punishment 

for the clamor by the press for the repeal of the franking-privilege abuse. Gentlemen know what the fact was as well as I can tell them. 

It was not asked as a part of the repeal of the franking privilege. It 

rests upon a different principle entirely. We ought not to charge the same postage for a weekly newspaper deposited m a post-office at the 

very next door, not going through the mails at all, as is the case with 

half of the editions that are published in the counties-we ought not to 

charge them the same postage that is charged for newspapers traveling over great distances and incumbering the mails. They pass in 

counties and in mails where there is no heavy accumulation; and 

besides that is the argument that it is in the nature of an irritating 

tax upon very important means of intelligence within the county. In fact, while the income is trifling, its removal is necessai'Y in order 

to relieve the country press of a burden which to the metropolitan 

press is nothing, but which to the local press amounts to a great deal 

in restricting its circulation. 

Mr. FOSTER. And it is not even an equivalent for free city 

delivery. 

Mr. KASSON. As the gentleman suggests, it is not even an equiv- alent for free city delivery. I must not dwell too long upon these 

points. I call attention to this bill, which, if the House consents to 

entertain it as a substitute for the bill of the committee, will be open 

to whatever amendments the House may consider neces ary. Now, I come to the more important topic of the franking privilege 

itself. I have alluded to its history. I have shown briefly how it 

has grown, as the nature of all such things is to grow from day to 

day and year to year, until it is piled mountain-high; and then comes ·the fact of a revulsion ; then comes a cry of the people for its abolition. And that Forty-second Congress which has been so much cen- sured by the public for some of its actions has never been censured 

for this. Now, sir, you of the Forty-third Congress are asked to undo 

the one special reform act of the Forty-second Congress, and to put yourselves to the a.ct of abolishing the abolition of an admitted abuse. 

Gentlemen say now, as they said before, "There is no saving to the 

Government in this; it does not diminish the cost at all of carrying 

the mails." And it was stated here in my neighborhood yester(lay 

that the prices had even increa ed in the letting of the contracts this 

year. Now, a word upon those points. On the lOth of April, 1872, a. 

bill was introduced from this Post-Office Committee to abolish the 

frauking privilege. I will a k the Clerk to read two or three extracts 

from what was then said. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The bill was read. It provides in its first section that all laws and parts of laws 

giving the right to any officer or Department of the Government, or other person. to e'ith r send or recei~e through the United States mails, free of charge, any letter, 

docnment, or other mailable matter, are hereby repealed. The second section pro- vides that this act shall take effect on and after the 1st day of July, 1873. 

Mr. HILL. Mr .. Speaker, this bill is similar to the bill that passed this House two years ago. Smce then there has been no cha.n~re in the public sentiment in 

regard to the abolition of the franking privilege. The same reasons that existed 

then and called for its abolition exist now. * * • • Applications have been made, and I believe are now before Con/P'ess, askin~r for an additional increase from 50 to 100 per cent. for carrying the mails, and the argu- ment urged on some of the routes is that there are so many public documents loading down the mails that they cannot carry them at present rates. One railroad 

president remarked that they did not ~ret as much for carrying the United States mail as they did for carrying coal, for the reason the mails were so loaded down mth free matter, public documents, &c. • • * * 

In reference to the objection "that nothing would be saved aside from getting the 

mails carried at a less price," I would state that when this matter was before the 

House two years ago I ascertained from the postmaster of this city that during three weeks, ten days of which Congress was not in session, there had been an av- erage of over foll!' to~s e~ day of free matter sent out from the city post-office, the 

postage upon which, if paid, would amount to about $2,000 per day. • • In regarcl to the abuse of the privilege, it incr11ases rather than diminishes. When 

in the dead-letter office a. few weeks ago, I saw a bag of law books which was held 

for postage; it was one of five bags, ent several hundred miles through the mails 

under the frank of an ex-member of Congress; four bags had gone through, and this bag having broken open, and these law-oooks discovered in it, was sent to the dea-d. 

letter office. And again, it was not long since several bags of large books from a publi her in New York City were detected, directed for one of thegreatcitiesof the 

West, franketl by an ex-member of Congress. These are among the few that are stopped while being transported througb. the mails; but many go unknown, and 

reach their destination in safety. 

:Mr. KASSON. I want the Hou e to understand that every argument we listened to yesterday was an argument in this House when 

the question of repeal was up. By referring to that debate members 

will see that it was argued that the abolition of the franking privilege would not diminish the cost of carrying the mails ; that there 

would be no saving to the Po t-Office Department; that the pretense 

that there wa-s to be any economy in consequence of it was all humbug. These arguments were repeated yesterday. I looked in the 

REcoRD this morning to find the figures given by the gentlemen who 

spoke yesterday; but, both of them having reserved their speeches 

for revision, I am unable to refer to their figures. I remember, however, the purport of those figure , and I wish to state to the House 

that it is within my knowledge, as a positive fact, that this carrying 

of enormous amounts of franked matter has seriously affected the 

cost of carrying the mails. When I was connected with the PostOffice Depa1'tment I know a claim of many thousand dollars came to us from the overland mail-route for extra compensation in conse- quence of our taking mail matter from another route and putting it 

upon that. I have been my elf in coaches crossing the country 

westward which were loaded down with these va.st mails, so that pa-ssengers were to a large extent excluded. I know that on many of 

tho e western routes branching off from the Union Pacific Railroad 

it has been found almost impossible, except in small deta~hments, to 

carry the large amount of franked matter which that country will 

be entitled to if the frankino- privilege be restored. 

And, sir, the bids now in the Post-Office Department for contracts 

for carrying the mails for fonT years in that very western country, 

including Illinois, Iowa, Minne ota, and the Pacific States, are made 

upon the basis of no free matter passing through the mails, and con- sequently with no expectation of these tons of mail-sacks of public 

documents. If we restore the franking privilege, what shall we see next year¥ Claini after claim from those western contractors for 

additional expense incurred in con equence of your changing the law and compelling them to carry the contents of whole warehouses across their routes t,o scatter them through the country. 

:Mr. COBB, of Kansas. I desire to ask the gentleman whether the 

bids for carrying the mails are not usually for carrying all the mails 

for the next four years, and whether this free matter is in any respect excepted 

Mr. KASSON. The gentleman has stated precisely what the law was and is. Nevertheless, that did not prevent contractors from com- ing before the Department aud Congress, claiming that this great 

Government could not afford to do an injustice, claiming that equity 

demanded an allowance of compensation for service that was not in 

point of fact contemplated by them when the contract was made. 

Consequently the suggestion of the gentleman from Kansas amounts 

simply to this : that we may impose extraordinary labors not foreseen 

when the contract was made, and yet, with the power of the Government on our side, shallsa.y, "We wjll not give you a cent of compensation, because we have your bond;" and the Government, after adding 

tons of public matter not contemplated in the contract, will, like Shy- lock, demand the pound of flesh, and the blood along with it. 

1\Ir. CLYMER. My friend from Iowa says that if the franking privilege should be revived, as proposed by the committee, there 
j 

1648 CONGRESSlONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

would be claims for extra compensation. I ask him, if his system were inaugurated, whether like claims would not be made Y 

Mr. P ACK.ARD. Or, in other words, how much Jess will they be 

with the gentleman's twenty-five cent stamps f 

Mr. KASSON. I hear those questions coming in all round. I kuew 

when! got to this point it would develop a great earnestne s to :find out 

all the details. I am happy to say, in all respects the bill I suggested 

would be an advantage. The first thing is, you have gut more money 

in your Treasury to meet those claims with if they come. The other 

point is, that if you do not send them as gratuities, as a special favor 

to the people who do not ask for them, you will not find any dema.nd 

at all for many of them, and only the real popular demand for any of 

them. 

I know quite well, Mr. Speaker, we have paid for this Government 

printing between two and three million dollars largely in conse- quence of the existence of the franking privile~e. You propo e now not merely to carry this mass of matter through the mails, but you 

propose to put all the machinery of the Government Printing Office 

at work, with all its incidental costs, whether the people want it or not. The substitute bill will give you a test whether the people want 

it or not. If they want it, the small sum required in my substitute ~ show by its payment on the part of the people that they do want 

the documents, :md which of the public documents they most value. 

Now one word as to the fact alluded to yesterday by ~he gentleman on my right. It was alleged as a fact there was an increa e actually 

of the contract prices in the bids put in this spring. Fortunately 

when I went to my room, after the close of the debate, and took up 

the New York Tribune to read the news from Washington-for I get 

it there sooner than I do here, and ometimes get it there even before 

it transpires, so far as my own committee is concerned, [laughter]-

when I took np the New York Tribune, I found these facts stated oearin~ upon this very point, and which facts were obtained unquestionably from the Post-Office Department. I ask the Clerk to read 

the portion I have marked. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

The awards made to-day for the ensuing four years' postal service in the Pa{}ifi.c 

States a.nd Territories were generally at rates very greatly reduced from the present cost of the same service. For instance, the mail service on the route from Kelton, 

Utah, to the Dalles, Oregon, which has for the past four years cost 224,000 per annum, was to-day let for $67,900 per annum; and the route from Prescott, Arizona, to San Bernardino, California, was let for $23,800 per year, which is now under con- tra{}t at $48,000 per annum. The route from Corinne, Utah, to Helena, Montaua, was let at 15,000-a saving of two-thirds. 

In these and similar cases there are a number of other low bids, indicating that 

very material reductions will be effected, even if the lowest bidders forfeit their 

deposits and fail to perform the service. Certified checks, amounting to about 

$1,500,000, are on deposit with the Postmaster-General as security for the good faith 

of the varioll8 bidders, and will be retained by him until the new service goes into 

operation. 

Mr. KASSON. Now, Mr. Speaker, this will do to show that on these 

very routes where your franked mail was fol'merly the most onerous burden, now that you have abolished the franking privile~~~ the prices - for carrying the mails have come down one-half to two-thirds, as the case may be. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Let me ask the gentleman a question. 

Mr. KASSON. I will in a moment; but let me :finish what I have 

to say on the point first. Prices have come down that much on those great routes. In addition to the information derivedftom that paper, I went into the PostOffice Department this morning, and sn.w the head of the Contract 

Office. I do not like to state anything in the natura- of fn.cts or re- ports which does not come in writing; bnt there was no time to get 

it in writing~ and any gentleman can verify it for himself if he chooses 

to do so. Tlie chief of the Contract Office told me he believed the con- tract price over t1ie western district, west of the :Mississippi River 

and north of the Ohio, and embracing Kentucky and Tennessee, but 

not including the State of Ohio-in that vast postal district be has 

information sufficient to indicate that there will be a reduction of per- haps 50 per cent. on the former contract prices; and that it would be 

safe for him to say there would be a reduction of at least 30 per cent. on the former contract prices. Yet gentlemen, in the face of these 

facts, come in here with a proposition to restore that old congre sional 

perquisite; and say there is no evidence, so far, that there has been 

any saving to the Post-Office Department by the abolition of the 

franking privilege. . Mr. ELDREDGE. The gentleman from Iowa will now allow me to ask him a question. I wish to ask him whether he does not can- didly believe one-half of the contracts taken at the low prices he 

states 'Will be forfeited! Does he believe these contracts will be car- ried out, when taken, as he ha.s stated, at a price two-thirds le s than 

the foTIDer price! Are they not mere straw bids! 

Mr. KASSON. I believe they will be carried out in every instance 

with the law as it now exists, where the law has been complied with. 

Under the law as it was when I was in the Department it might be 

otherwise. Now these bidders are compelled to put up a depo it as security for the carrying out of their contract. Under that law, I 

have no doubt, these contracts will be carried out upon the reduced 

price I have stated. Mr. ELDREDGE. D•es not the gentlem:m from Iowa know that 

many of these are straw bids, and wlien the contractors fail to carry 

out their contracts, the Postmaster-General will t11en give them out 

at- whatever price he pleases! And then I want him to answer if he 

believes this reduction is in consequence of the abolition of the 'franking privilege! I want his candid answer to both questions. . Mr. KASSON. There were two questions propounded by tlie gentleman from Wi consin, [Mr. ELDREDGE.] The first is as to straw bids. 

I assure the gentleman again that the old sy tern, which admitted all 

those straw bids, is now changed and repealed; and the competitors, 

to show their good faith, put up their deposits. The very extract read a moment ago at the desk shows that one and a half riilllioils of ri:wn·ey are no win the hands of the Department as guarantees fortM c·ontracts. 

The other question the gentleman fTom Wisconsin referred to iiiy c'aiidOJ.• wa.s whether the reduction was owing to the abolition of the 

franking privilege. I answer it was in part probably owiri.g to other 

things. But I an wer with equal candor that in part, and largely 

I believe, it was owing to the abolition of those car-loads of matter 

which the Department ceased to distribute. 

Mr. Speaker, i know from my own recollection of the reports that came to us, that ih the western country they used to take these sacks 

by the dozen, laid them under their coache when they got into mud- holes, used them to fill up the mud-holes, ran their coaclies over them, 

and left them to be picked up by the Indians or the next emigrant 

wagon. Reports of this sort of thing came ti.Ihe and asain to the 

Department, and we were asked to correct it. Every man who has 

traveled in that country knows how these sacks of franked matter were piled up, sometimes by wholecoach-loads, where several routes of 

mail communication were concentrated into a great line to be carried 

through a sparsely settled country. , In some parts of my country, where the weekly mails are carried ·on horseba{lk in a ack, with a man or a boy on the top of it, what are you going to do if you load that mail-sack with public documents! 

The carrier cannot possibly, under that system, carry the mails with 

the expedition and celerity that the postal system requires t 

I now yield to the gentleman from Maryland, [Mr . .ARCHER,] who 

desired a short time ago to address a question to me. Mr . .ARCHER. The gentleman spoke of a million and a half, or something in that neighborhood, being in the post-office vaults to 

make the bids good. Is that in money or in checks Y 

Mr. KASSON. It is in certified checks, just such as business men in the community take, with the a-ssurance that they will bring in the 

money. 

:Mr . .ARCHER. Certified by national banks or private banks T 

Mr. KASSON. By national banks I suppose in every case. The 

mode is in accordance with law, whatever it is. I cannot stop to detail that. We pas ed a bill very recently to authorize the PostmasterGeneral to transfer their deposits to the Treasury. 

Mr. HEREFORD. I desire to ask the gentleman a question. Mr. KASSON. Certainly; I will hear the gentleman. 

Mr. HEREFORD. After the abolition of the franking privilege 

by the Forty-second Congress, did not that same Congress make a larger appropriation for the mail service than had ever been made in 

the hist<uy of the GOvernment t 

Mr. KASSON. And for the very good reasori, Mr. Speaker, that 

every year the appropriation increases with the increase of com- munication. 

Mr. HEREFORD. But larger in proportion t 

Mr. KASSON. Less in proportion. 

Mr. HEREFORD. I beg the gentleman's pardon. 

Mr. KASSON. Let me give the gentleman official proof. He is 

entitled to it if his ooinion differs from mine. I read from the letter 

of the Post-Office Department, dated 20th of January last-a Senate 

document. The Senate sought information on this very point, and it 

appears that the estimate to which he refers was au increase of 4..07, 

say 5, per cent.· on the previous year. The average increase for the 

few previous years before the abolition of the franking privilege was about 11 per cent7 and I believe upwards. I cannot put my eye on the exact :figures, t>ut I know that the annual increase was about 11 

per cent. 

Now, the actual increase this time, notWithstancling the fact to 

which the gentleman alludes, was reduced to less than 5 per cent. In other words the amount asked for was $19,270,000 ; and at the 

usual rate of increase, which was over 11 per cent., it would have 

been $20,388,000, a difference of $1,118,000, since the repeal of the 

franking privilege, upon the estimates of the Departinent. Aud this, 

notwithstanding that at the same time you provid'ed :for an increa e of compensation to railroadS, so that the estimates of the PostmasterGeneral han to be higher in consequence of the law which you pa d 

enlarging the pay of post.al service and the railroads of the country. 

That, I think, will answer the gentleman's question. Mr. BECK. Will the gentleman allow me to a.sk him a question 

for information f 

.Mr. KASSON. Yes, sir. , 

~fi. BECK. The Postmaster-General in his report forthis year show 

that the ordinary revenues of the Department for the year ending Juno 

30, 1873, were 22,996,000 and the expenditures $29,000,000. For tbe 

year 187:Z the revenues were 21,915,000 and experidi'tures $26,658,000. 

Now, be estimates that for the next fiscal year the revenues will 

amount to $29,293,000; and the Secretary of the T,reasury, page 8 of 

his report, estimates the deficiency required by the Post-Office Department as $6, 11,000, in the last report, which is higher than it ever w~ 

before . . I wj.sh the gentleman to explain how that is. Mr. HEREFORD. That' is iny recol1ection1 exactly, 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1649 

Mr. KASSON. Is the gentleman reading from the estimates of the 

Secretary of the Treasury¥ :Mr. BECK. Yes, sir; we gave the Postma.ster-GeneraJ last year for 

deficiencies a little over 6,200,000. Now, he asks for something over $6,800,000, being between five and six hundred thousand doll:1rs more t.ha.n was given him l::t8t 'Year for deficiencies, while his revenue has 

gone up :f:rom$21,000,000 to $29,000,000. That, however, does not appear 

in the Book of Estimates. 

Mr. KASSON. I do not desire to go into a debate on the financial 

condition of the Department. 

:Mr. BECK. No; but I want the facts to appear. 

:Mr. KASSON. Since the gentleman has named the matter, I will 

state that the growth of the expenses of the Post-Office Department 

shows a remarkable condition of increase during the last few years. 

The ~entleman will see all the figures on page 4 of: this document. 

It ism consequence of the enormous· increase of the railroad service 

in this country, the enormous expense of carrying the mail on that 

service, especially in connection with the postal-car system. 

Mr. BECK. Is it not true that the deficiencies of the Post-Office 

Department are now larger ·than ever before, while the revenues of 

the Department are much greater' 

Mr. KASSON. That is estimated deficiencies. The average increase 

of the deficiency is only some hundreds of thousands of dollars; I 

do not recollect the exact amount. The simple fact is that it arises 

from the enormous increase of expense in carrying the mails over the 

railroad system of the country. The Postmaster-General has probably ba ed the estimated deficiencies upon the lettings, which he had 

the right to suppose would be like those of last year, whereas in point 

of fact they promise to be reduced . Mr. COBB, of Kansas. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question f 

1\lr. KASSON. I will, if it relates to the subject under consideration. 

Mr. COBB, of Kansas. On the fust page of the Postmaster-Gen- eral's report is given estimated revenue from the stamps supplied to 

the several Departments, 2,250,000. Should not that also be added 

to the deficiency, as being a direct charge against the Government for 

that po tage Y • Mr. KAS80N. I answer no. It has always been the desire of the 

Post-Office Department to put its own actual expenses against the re- ceipts that ou~ht to go into its treasury. When I wa-s there we fought 

against saddling that Department with the subsidies to your ocean steamships, and finally got that item removed and charged to another 

account, as being for the general commercial interests of the country. 

Therefore when other Departments, not the Post-Office Department, 

choo e to use the mails, it is not fair to charge upon the Post-Office 

Department all the expense of all the business of the country, and 

in that way create enormous deficiencies. I am not here representing 

the Po t-Office Department. If gentlemen want to go into figures 

about it, I beg them to refer to the committee whose business it is to 

know them. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. But in making proper e timates, I suggest to 

the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. KAssoN] that he should require the 

Post-Office Department to give credit for all that is paid to it in the 

way of postage from the other Departments. 

Mr. KASSON. It is included in the receipts. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Precisely. 

Mr. KASSON. Aud is included in this estimate. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. And yet, taking into consideration that fact, 

and the other fact that the frankinO' privilege has been abolished, 

you find the deficiencies of the Post-Office Department to be greater 

than before. 

Mr. KASSON. I have already spoken of that, and I am not here to 

defend the Department's finances. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Where then is the saving to the Government! 

Tell us, if you can. Mr. KASSON. The deficiencies would be 2,000,000 greater but for 

this. I say again I am not here fighting the battles of the Post-Office 

Department. I have no relations with that Department, any more than any other gentleman on this floor. In regard to details of information, I beg to refer gentlemen to the proper source, which is the 

Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. I am attempting to 

speak alone of the franking privilege. · Mr. CLYMER. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question Y 

Mr. KASSON. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CL YM.ER. The gentleman says the lettin~s this year are for less sums than they were four years ago, and that is l)ecause the franking 

privilege has been abolished. Is it not the fact that four years ago 

the lettings were made upon the condition that the mails should be 

carried in four-horse coaches, which were obliged to be run at stated 

times, and to make certain connections' Thi year the lettings have 

been upon the basis that it wa no matter in what the mails were carried so the connection was made ; they could be carried in a twohorse wagon, or a one-horse wagon, or on horseba,ck, or in any other 

way. 

Mr. Kl\.SSON. Thathaa been the rule for years. The lettings only 

require certainty, celerity, and security. 

Mr. CLYMER. Did they not require four-horse coaches four yc~·s 

ago 'f 

Mr. KASSON. No, sir; that was abolished when I was in the De10! 

partment, and has not been required for several years. We refused 

to do anything more than t.helawrequircd; that is, to make a contract 

to carry the mails with certainty, celerity, and sccmity. 

Mr. CROSSLAND. .A.llow me to ask a qnestion in connection with 

that of my colleague, [.Mr. BECK.] He says that the ccretaTy of the 

Treasury has made estimates for deficiencies of the Post-Office Department, showing a large iucrea e over <leficieucies for last year. The 

Postmaster-General only asks for a deficiency of 4,000,000. The Secretary of the Treasury iu ma.kin~ the estimates includes the deficiency 

for subsidizing steamships, making the estimates $2,000,000 more than 

is asked by the Postmaster-General. The amount asked for by tJ1e 

Postmaster-General is less than the deficiency of last year by $2,000,000. I stand by what the Postmaster-General has asked, and not by what 

the Secretary of: the 'I'rea ury asked. The Postma-ster-General has 

asked for a deficiency of only four millions and a little over, which is 

a reduction of more than two millions. The Secretary of the Treasury asked for 6,000,000, in order to subsidize the ships. That is how 

it was. 

Mr. KASSON. I am glad that this explanation has been made. .A.s 

I have said, I have not examined fully this financial question. 

Mr. BECK. Some time ago I called iny colleague's attention to 

what the Secretary of the Treasury showed from the estimates of the 

Postmaster-General; and when the gentleman looks at the Postma-ster- General's report he will find that he does ask just what the Secretary 

of the Treasury says he asks, though he puts it in a separate item; 

and in the appropriations of last year, which were only $G,300,000, 

those things were all embraced. Now, those estimates were furnished 

by the Postmaster-General himself; and notwithstanding the increasecl 

income of the Department the $29,000,000 are kept out of the Book of 

Estimates for the purpose of making it appear that we a.re spending 

less than we actually are. I confess I have no faith in the PostmasterGeneral; and he is the only officer of the Government in whom I have none. [Some further remarks were .made by Mr. BECK and Mr. CRossLAND, which were lost. in the confusion in the Hall.] 

Mr. KASSON. Mr. Speaker, I was, when interrupted, about coming 

to a very interestin~ point, but I am afraid I shall have difficulty in 

bringing the attention of the House again to the subject under con- sideration. 

[H&e the hammer fell.] 

Mr. TYNER obtained the floor. 

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. KAsSON] has expired. 

Several MEMBERS. Let the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. KAsSON] 

go on. 

Mr. TYNER. I shall object to an extension of the time of the gentleman from Iowa, unless he will occupy the time himself. Mr. STORM. I ask that the gentleman be allowed fifteen minutes. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Indiana [Mr. TYNER] is entitled to the floor, and he must suggest what arrangement he proposes. 

Mr. TYNER. I was about to say that I had no objection to the ex- tension of the time of the gentleman from Iowa for, say, ten minutes, 

if he will occupy the time himself and not yield to interruptions. If 

he cannot occupy the floor and hold it, then I shall object to his proceeding at all. I wish it also to be understood that whatever time the 

gentleman from. Iowa may occupy shall not come out of my hour. 

The SPEAKER. That is a matter of course. Mr. KASSON. I only wish to say that I always like to yield rather 

than seem to be guilty of discourtesy; but if the gentleman from In- diana· [Mr. TYNER] desires that there should be no interruption, of course I will accept the floor on that condition. 

1\ir. ELDREDGE, I hope there will be no objection to the gentle- man from Iowa proceeding. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair hears no objection. 

Mr. KASSON. Mr. Speaker, without wishing to exaggerate in one way or to diminish in the other, I have explained the apparent influ- ence of the repeal of the franking privilege upon the expense of: the 

contract service. I have also spoken of the fact that its incumbrance 

of the mails interferes largely with the ordinary and proper transaction of postal business. I now wish to call attention to some of the 

circumstances att~nding the repeal of this measure. I have already had read by the Clerk the substance of the bill 

reported in April, 1872, by 1\ir. Hill, of New Jersey, from the Commit- tee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads, for the repeal of the franking 

privilege. That proposition failed. It did not even get enough support to enable the yeas and nays to be taken upon it. That was in 

April, 1872. On the 8th of June following Mr. Farnsworth, the chair- man of the committee, introduced a bill for the repeal of the franking 

privilege, and asked that the rules be suspended and the bill passed. 

Recollect, in April they did not get enough to call for the yeas and 

nays in this House on the bill for the repeal of the franking privi- l~~e. On June 8 they got enough to suspend the rules and pas the 

bi.J.l- 139 votes for, and 29 votes against it, on this floor. What haq 

happened in the mean time f · 

Mr. DUNNELL. Will the gentleman allow me ask him a. q"!les~ 

tion Y ~1r. KASSON. I am under condition not to allow my~elf to be in-. terrupted. What had ha,ppened in the mean t:i,me '¥ Ther.e ha-d ha.p-pened an exceedingly numerous convention, supposed to be of resp~ct;1ble :re:p.,-
1650 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. ]fEBRUARY 19, 

resentatives of the larger part of the people. It had assembled at 

Philadelphia. It was called the republican convention. It nomi- nated Grant and Wilson for President and Vice-President, awl at 

that time it adopted a platform of principles. The te~th resolution of that platform, while it may not be valuable reading to my' 

friends on the other side of the House, will, I hope, be regarded as of some significance by my friends on this side who are republicans. That tenth resolution was that "the franking privilege ought to 

be abolished, and the way prepared for speedy reduction in the rates 

of postage." That voice came from Philadelphia, a voice that was heeded by people of the same wayofthinking politically, who believed 

it was a proper principle of republican action in administe1ing the 

Government of the United States. 

And, sir, t 1us House responded to that public demand for the repe_al 

of the franking privilege. This House of Congress passed the bill 

under a suspension of the rules June 8, but a little time after the 

adoption of that resolution by the convention. It went to the Senate. 

Thus far there was good faith in acting in accordance with this 

demand. The Senate waited until the people had elected that ticket 

and ratified that platform at the polls. Then the Senate, yielding to 

the demand alike of the convention and the people, pas ·ed the bill3:3 to 16. It came back to the House, and on January '27, as quickly as it could be reached, they suspended the rules again and passed the 

abolition of the franking privilege. 

But, as if not contented with that, on March 3, when the PostOffice appropriation bill came back from the Senate, you passed a clause which clinched the nail on the other side, by expressing the 

determination of that Forty-second Cong1·ess at least that this franking privilege ghost should be laid forever. 

Now comes a proposition from the same committee which formerly reported-! do not mean personally, but officially the same committee 

which reported for the repeal-to this Congress to repeal that law. And what are the reasons given for itY I ask the members on this 

side of the House whether they are going to back down on the very 

resolution upon which they were elected to this Congress. Gentle- men regard their pledges ·once given as too sacred to be forfeited. Cannot members of Congress keep their pledges! Are gentlemen, the 

moment they are elected, going to throw overboard the platform upon 

which they were floated into office T Sir, if I knew that was a mistake, that it was a bad exercise of our jud...,.ment, since I have been 

elected on that platform to this Congress f will not go back upon 

my pledge until the people manifest distinctly their will that we should change our action. But, sir, it is not the only manifestation of the will of the people. 

Is this people of ours so weak, this constituency which sent us here so :fickle, that it does not know what it wants f Do the new mem- bers of the House remember what the people have said about this 

franking privilege Y I want to say to the members, like myself, not 

in the Forty-second Congress, what I was astonished inyself to discover, that the voice of the people was heard by thousands of petitions as well as by the platform of the Philadelphia convention. 

Here in these baskets are some of the expressions of the popular voice on the franking privilege. I just want the House to see a sample of 

what the people have said to Congress about the franking privilege. 

[Showing six basketfuls of petitions for its repeal.] 

Mr. RUSK rose. Mr. KASSON. Do not interrupt this interesting manifestation. 

[Laughter.] This will do to exhibit to the House. 

l\Ir. RUSK. Did not the Postmaster-General get these up a;t his own expense, or rather a,t the expense of the Government 'r 

Mr. KASSON. I wish to show to the House what the voice of the 

people was which ca,me up to the Forty-second Congress and which 

that Congress obeyed, as well as the platform of the republican con- vention at Philadelphia. I will answer the gentleman in one minute; 

I do not yield for inteiTuptions now. What do we see here 1 Here 

is one. These citizens denounce t h e franking privilege as an abuse. 

Mr. PLATT, of Virginia. I wish the gentleman to state-- Mr. KASSON. I tell the gentleman that I will answer him in the course of a minute or two, if he will only restrain his voice just now. The SPEAKER pt·o tempm·e, (Mr. ScoFIELD.) Gentlemen will please come to order. 

l\Ir. KASSON. These petitions set forthThat the abuses of the franking privilege, and the frauds incident thereto, have 

assumed such enormous proportions, that 1ts total abolition has becomo a necessity. 

They then go on to give the reasons on which this statement is 

based. And these petitions have come to the House to the extent I 

have intimated. · Mr. ELDREDGE. How much did it cost to bring them here 'f 

A MEMBER. Are they not all printed alike! 

Mr. KASSON. I am coming to that, if the gentleman will not be 

e;o very impatient. They want to deprive me of the time the gentle- man from Indiana [Mr. TYNER] has given me. Gentlemen say that 

they are all printed alike, and that the Postmaster-General did this ; 

that it was the Postmaster-General that sent them out. I do not 

know who sent them out. I have reason to believe--

Mr. NEGLEY. Every one in my distrj.ct was sent out by the Department. 

Mr. KASSON. I decline to be interrupted. I was not speaking of 

the gentleman's clistrid . 

1\Ir. 1\TEGLEY. When you said you were speaking of the whole 

country you spoke of my district. . The SPEAKER pt·o tempore. The gentleman's time has expired. 1\Ir. KAI::)SON. I would have :finished ere now if goutlomen hacl not 

occupied my time with interruptions. 

Mr. SENBR.. Is unanimous consent neces ary in onler to the gentleman's proceeding f 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is not proceedino- n,t 

all at present. Tho Hou e will come to order. [Laughter.] 0 

Mr. PLATT, of Virginia. If the gentleman is going to proceed by 

unanimous consent, before I give consent I wish to be permitted to 

ask him a question. 

Mr. KILLINGER. The gentleman is not speaking by unanimous 

consent but in the time of the gentleman fromlndia,na, [1\Ir. TYNF.R.] 

The SPEAKER p1·o tentpm·e. The House will come to order. Gentlemen in the aisles in front of the Chair will please resume their seats. Order having been r estored, · 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from India,na [1\Ir. TYNER] is 

entitled to the floor. 

Mr. KASSON. I hopo the gentleman will allow me a few minutes to finish my remarks. 

1\Ir. TYNER. I havo yielded to the gentleman several times, antl as he seems unable to have order preserved in the House while he is 

addressing it, I will now try my hand. 

Mr. KASSON. I gave thirty-five minutes of my time yesterday to 

the gentlemen of the committee. 

:Mr. TYNE.R. And the gentleman's time was extended to-day to 

make that up, and he received ten minutes in adclition. 

1\Ir. KASSON. I had only one extension given me of :fifteen minutes. 

Mr. TYNER. The gentleman from Iowa will observe that other 

gentlemen are objecting to his proceeding. 

Mr. SHAl~S. I object to his proceeding any fnrther. 

The SPEAKER pro tentpore. The gentleman from Indiana [~Ir. 

TYNER] can yield to the gentleman from Iowa if he chooses. 

Mr. TYNER. I decline to yield. 

1\I.Ir. ELDREDGE. I hope he will yield long enough to allow him 

to have the documents read which he has brought in here. [Laughter.] 

l\Ir. BIERY. I rise to a point of order. It seems to me that these 

documents brouo·ht in here are the subject of great confusion. 

The SPEAKER 11ro tmnpore. The Ohair overrules the point of order. 

The gentleman from Indiana [Mr. TYNER] is entitled to the floor. 

MESSAGE FRO:\I THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. SYMPSON, one of their clerks, 

informed the Hou e that the Senate had passed bills of the following titles; in which the concurrence of the Honse was requested: 

A bill (S. No. 494) amendatory of an act to revise, consolidate, anu amend the statutes relating to patents and copyrights; and 

A bill (S. No. 493) to establish certain post-routes in the State of 

Arkansas. 

The message further announced that the Senate had pa~ eel, without amendment, bills of the House of the following titles : A bill (H. R. No. 1903) to dredge and protect the navigable channel 

at the mouth of Buffalo River against the sand-bar formed by the 

gale of 1863; and 

A bill (H. R. No. 429) creating an additional l and district in the 

Territory of New ¥exico. 

DISTRIBUTION OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS, ETC. 

The House resumed the consideration of the bill (H. R. No. 825) 

relating to the distribution of public documents, &c. 

Mr. TYNER. Mr. Speaker, if an opportunity shall be afforded for 

sepa,rate votes on the two distinct propositions contained in the pending bill, I will support so much of the bill as authorizes the free circulation of weekly newspapers in the county of their publication, and 

the free exchange between publishers. But I ball oppo e that portic;m of the bill which provides for what is equivalent to the free distribution of public documents. I arrive at a determination to oppose 

the last-named provision of the bill by a different course of reasoning 

from that which seems to have influenced othe1· gentlemen who have taken part in this debate. 

Before I proceed to examine the features of the bill, I will ask the 

House to bear with me while I very briefly allude to the agitation, 

begun in the commencement of the administration of the present 

Postmaster-General, which finally resulted in the abolition of the 

franking privilege. That may throw some light on the subject now, 

and enable us to act more intelligently. The whole subject, sir, is a 

practical one for the House and this Congress to determine. There 

is no sentimentalism involved in the settlement of the questions now presented to the House, nor will the display of ill-temper enable us to arrive at a clearer judgment. I propose to treat it, therefore, as a practical subject, while I recall to the recollection of the older mem- bers the anxiety of the Postma-ster-General heretofore to encourage 

and influence the action of Congress in excluding unpaid matter from 

the mails of the United States. 

Four years ago, in his first annual report, he called attention to the 

subject in a paragraph that I will ask t.he Clerk to read. 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD .. 1651 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The cost of free matter bas been increasing from year to year, until at last it wei~bs 

down t.he Department into continuous insolvency. The additional e>..lJCnseto which 

it subjects the service is counted by millions, wlille ther e is provideu to meet itonly the standing annual appropriation of 700,000. It was stated ten years ago that the Department actually eJ..lJended at that time, in the performance of the duties which 

the franking privilege imposed, little if anything short of $3,000,000. Since that 

time the expense has-L'lr.,.ely increased, and 't am convinced that it now exceeds tho enormous sum of $5,000,000, about one-half of which is paiu on fraudulent matter. 

Mr.' TYNER. Gentlemen will observe that the cost of the franking 

privilege is here estimated at $5,000,000 pe-r year, one-half of which enormous sum covered the expense of sending fraudulent matter in • the mails. It was a startling calculation, and very properly provoked 

the severest condemnation of the public. The press and the people 

did not spare Senators and Representatives who thUB abused a system 

designed to afford a ready and cheap communication between them 

and their legislators, and they cried aloud for the discontinuance of 

the evil. Only members of Congress disputed the accuracy of the 

Postmaster-General's figures, and protested against the injustice of 

holding them responsible for alleged frauds. I had the honor of debating the subject, at the time, in a speech wherein I attempted to 

demonstrate, and did demonstrate, that the postage value of all the 

matter sent under the frank of Senators and Representatives could 

not amount to one-fourth the sum named in the official report referred 

to. I am sorry, sir, that I have not time to quote some portions of 

that speech, because they would more clearly present the subject 

under discussion than anything I can now say. 

Immediately after the publication of the report from which I have 

quoted, the Postmaster-General caused the printing of a large num- ber of blank petitions, praying for the abolition of the franking 

privilege, which he sent to all, or nearly all, the postmasters in the 

United States, accompanied by a circular directing them to present 

said petitions to the patrons of their respective offices for signatures, 

intending in this way to impress Congress with the consciousness that 

the people desired that the mails should be closed against everything 

except paid matter. The gentleman from Iowa [Mr. KASSON] has 

dragged some of these petitions from their musty resting places and 

presented them by the basketful to the House as an echo of the voice 

of the peoplo. It would, therefore, be well to suggest that of the 

sixty or seventy thousand blanks then sent out there were probably r eturned from twenty to twenty-five thousand, more or less numer- ously signed. It was the opinion of the Committee on the Post-Office 

and Post-Roa~, of which I was then a member, and to which all of 

these petitions sent to the House were referred, that they had been 

signed by a number of persous equal to 5 or 10 per cent. of our voting 

population. How many names appended to them represented minors, or were fictitious, I do not know, nor can I say that any of them were not genuine. It is exceedingly doubtful whether they were signed by 1 per cent. of the voting population. The Postmaster- General, however, had nothing to do with any. of them after they 

left his Department to be presented to the public for signatures. 

I will now send to the Clerk's desk to be read one of these petitions. It was taken at random from one of the baskets in which the 

whole batch was exhibited to the Honse by the gentleman from Iowa, 

[Mr. KAssoN.] Thirty or forty names are appended to it, all written 

by the sn.me hand, and with the same ink. 

The Clerk read the petition, as follows : 

To the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America: 

The petition of the undersigned, citizens of-- , respectfully represents: that 

the abuses of the "franking privileo-e," and frauds incident thereto, have assumed 

such enormous proportions that its tota.l abolition has become a necessi~y. It loads 

the mails with hundreds of tons of matter properly chargeable with postage, greatly increasing their wei&ht and bulk, and cost of transportation; a.nd, in many cases, r~tar~g the transnnssion and delivery of legitimate correspondence. It is a spemal pr1vile~e, the benefits of which accrue to the fa.voreclfew at the expense of the 

many. It nas been the fruitful cause of the large deficiencies charged upon the · national Treasury for the support of t.he Post-Office Department, amounting to millions of dollars annually. It ha-s seriously impaired the usefulness and efficiency 

of the postal service in meeting the just expectations and increasing wants of the 

people, in respect to reduced postage charges and enlarged mail accommodations. For these and other reasons, which might be urged, your :petitioners humbly pray 

that your honorable bodies will pass a law aboliShing the franking privilege; and, as in duty bound, they will ever pray, &c. 

Mr. TYNER. Under the inspiration of instructions thus communicated, and desirous of cuttinO' off an annual expense of $5,000,000, imposed by the so-called fraclung privilege, the House passed a bill 

abolishing it; but the Senate did uot reach a vote on it during that 

Congress. When the Postmaster-General submitted his next annual 

report-his report for 1870-'71-he again called attention to the subject in a paragraph that I will ask the Clerk to read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

I am thoroughly satisfied that if the franking privilege were repealed and all matter passin ~ tJ;rroug:h the. mails charged '_vi~h it." fa?' share.of postage, the De- partment would m a snort time be self-sustamrng. Th1s assertion when made heretofore was warmly denied, and nothinu was left but a resort to a demon tration by fig~es. It has been already ::~tated the "deficiency for the lMt year has been reuuced to !,?2,814,116.98. Correct accounts of the cost of free matter dispatched through the 

malls were ordered to l?e kept ~.V tho postma-sters for the six months beginning the 

1st o_f January a.nd eJ?ding the o>Oth of June last; and the returns which have been r ecmvecl are now berng aiTanged and tabulated for submission to Congress. I r egret that owing to numerous ina-ccurate and incomplete returns, a.rul tho failure of 

many of the postmasters to ~keany return, it has b een iupossible, with the limited 

mJ?lber of clerks emp~oyed rn the Depa.rtment, to present the r esnlts in detail with 

tins report. Enough L':l known, however, to enable those who are most.farniliar with 

the work to express the opinion that the aggregate retums will show the aggre~ate 

cost of free matter furtheyea.rto be fully equal to the above.rnentione!ldeficfencies. 

The rm during which accounts were kept was confine!l to the first l1aif of the 

year, when f ew elcdion::~ were heltl and when only a small portion of tho public !luc- uments are transmitted. Should the amount of franked matter be acmu·atclv 

a-scert.ained during a presidential canvass, aud subjected to the posta"'-e charged 

upon other like matter sent by private inilividu:ils, I am conrinceu th:lt the l1\ erage cost per annum would be greatly enhanced. 

1\Ir. TThTER. Mr. Speaker, having promised to yieltl at least one- half of my time to other gentlemen, I am admonished that I must 

not pause to comment on the ilifference in the figures of the Postmaster-General's first n,nd second reports. The Hoose will remember 

that, by his first calculations, it required n,t least $5,000,000 to represent tho postage value of franked matter. After·a more careful esti- mate and revision of his calculations, he came down, in one year, over $2,000,000; but nevertheless, in his second report., he ~presses 

the belief that his Department can soon be made self-sustaining if it can be relieved of this great burden of uncompensated service. Now, 

sir, I want to address myself to that point for a singlo moment, for 

the double purpose ·of testing his faith in his own opinions, aud, also, 

of framing a concise history of the preliminaries to legislation on this subject, and the results that followed. 

The law abolishing the franking privilege went into operation on the 1st of July, 1873. No report of theoperationsof the postal estab- lishment has since been submitted. I reo-ret that we cannot have it now as a guide, and I also regret that we have no other reliable rlata 

by which to judge of the effect of the new law. And right here lot me say that the absence of such information as an officin,l report only can furnish will constitute one of my reasons for voting against a substantial revival of the law authorizing the free transmission of 

public documents in the mails. Let ns not be so hasty in undoing 

the legislation of the la ·t Congress that we cannot judge intelligently as to its effect. If there be economy in closing mail-sacks to anything except paid matter, let that be conclusively shown. The first 

duty of a Representative is to protect the public Treasury from the 

encroachments of extravaganoe, and, above all, to not impose unneces- sary burdens that may be misunderstood to constitute personal privileges and conveniences. If the alternative is presented of doing himself a positive injustice on the one hand, or a possible ·wrong to the 

public on the other, let his judgment be decided by an anxiety to 

avoid even the appearance of partiality for himself. So reasoning, sir, I urge the propriety of awaiting the uext annual repo;rt of the 

Postmaster-General before we shall revive any feature of the franking pri ruege. It will be time enough to legislate agn,in when we shall 

have the results of the first year's operations of the. postal service 

under a system of paid postage. Possibly the demonstrations of a single year will not be reliable and satisfactory, and in that evont it 

would be wise to wait still longer. Until our duty can be foreshadowed 

by practical results we should scrupulously avoid any disturbance of 

existing law. · · But, sir, while we have no official report to indicate the accuracy or incorrectness of the Postmaster-General's calculations, we may yet 

test his faith in them by his estimates for the coming fiscal year, and 

by comparing them with previous receipts and expenditures. If he 

had proposed to rely solely on his own reve:i:mes, or mainly to do so, 

for the means to meet the immense uemands on the postal service, 

that would show that he was positive beyond a doubt that his Depart- ment will become self-sustaining at once. To delay a dangerous ven- ture until experience shall demonstrate the probable safety of undertaking it is wise and prudent. There may be the best of reasons, 

aside from the necessity of being cautious, for not trying to meet un- avoidable expenses by estimated receipts alone. Numerous contracts now in existence may have to give way to others not so expensive, OJ.' 

other arrangements looking to decreased expenditures may have to be 

perfected before it would be wise to rely alone on his own resources. I do not, therefore, criticise his motives or pretend to challenge the 

correctness of his calculations. All I propose to do is to ascertain 

whether his estimates for next year look as though he now believes 

he can get alon~ without help from the general Treasury. Dry as figures are, I will yet ask gentlemen to listen to those I quote from 

the Postmaster-Geneml's estimates. These estimates were probably 

made up after the lapse of one full quarter from the elate at which 

the new law took effect; and he therefore had some means of knowing how much his receipts had been swollen by the increased sale of 

stamps, even though he may not have known that n,ny real reduction 

of expenditures would follow. It appears that the expendHures of the Post-Office Department for 

the last fiscal year were $2!;},084,945.67; that the receipts during the same period were $22,996,741.57, showing a deficiency of $6,088,204.10. 

Now if we deduct from that sum the subsidies paid to mail-sten,mship 

lines, not properly chargeable to the ordinary expenses of the Department, to wit, the sum of $725,000, we have an actual deficiency of 

$5,253,204.1 0. 

Now, Mr. Speaker, if the Postmaster-General had still been impressed with the .belief that, by reason of the iliscontinuance of free. 

mat.ter in the mails, his Department. would promptly become self- sustaining, is it not probable he would have presented UB such esti-. 

mates for the next fiscal year as anticipatecl at least a. t:,rreat falling off 

in deficiencies f 

He estimates his expenditures at $33,929,912, and his receipts at 

$2U,293,549; his deficiency, therefore, at $4,636,363. But in his esti- mateu receipts he includes the sum of $2,250,000, to be derived from 

the sale of official stamps to his and the other Executive P~part-. 
1652 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

ments. These are to be paid for out of the general Trea-sury; ancl 

while they swell his receipts, and consequently reduce his deficiency, 

they do not thereby remove him any farther from the slon~h of actual 

insolvency. The people pay for them at last., and they ~nly figure to 

make his balances look better. Deduct, then, these estimated re- ceipts to be derived from the sale of official stamps, and we have a-s the result a deficiency of $6,836,363, or $1,623,159.90 more than the 

year before. I do not mean to intimate that the increase will be so great, or that there will be any increa-se at all. My meaning is that 

the Postmaster-General's figures produce this result, without distorting them at all. 

Now, sir, we may, without injustice, regard these figures as an index to the more matured opinions of this officer on the subject we are considering. Viewing them in that light, I agree with him precisely. Five years of service as an officer of the Department, and 

such experience as ordinary observation and close application to 

business for that period would furnish, enable me to predict with some degree of confidence that the next report of the PostmasterGeneral, and all others that follow it, will show continued deficiencies unless they can be removed by some other expedient than the 

abolition of the franking privileO"e. I know, sir, that I addre s un- willing ears and unbelieving minds, if I now address the public outside of this Hall; Uut still an honest belief, which I have the right to 

express even in the face of public opi.nivn, requires me to say that I 

do not think the abolition of the franking privilege will reduce the 

expenditures of the Post-Office Department a srngle dollar. Its 

receipts will be increased, partly by the amount of postage paid by 

Senators and Representatives out of their private purses, but far more by the larger sums that will be transferred from the general 

Treasury to cover the cost of the corre pondence of the several 

Executive Departments. So much a-s comes out of the pockets of 

those who have heretofore employed the frank will reduce expenditures, and, consequently, chronic deficiencies that much; but that 

which is paid by the General Government can hardly be tortured 

into a corresponding reduction of deficiencies, or a real increa-se of 

receipts. 

Let me turn now to a suggestion of the gentleman from Iowa, [Mr. 

KASSON.] He referred to the fact that the late proposals for carrying the ~ils in the West and Northwest are at largely reduced rates 

from those at former lettings- probably 30 to 40 per cent. below the 

last contract prices. He refers to this as one of the first fruits of getting rid of free matter. He will know I am not discourteous in saying that I do not believe this had anything to do with it. I will 

venture the opinion that no bidder can be found who took this into 

consi<leration. But, sir, these favorable bids may be tra~ed to other 

and entirely different causes. The Forty-second Congress revised the 

postal laws. The committees of the two Houses having the bill in 

charge saw the necessity of protecting the Government against the 

perpetration of frauds, known as "straw bidding," whereby low bidders, who never expected to comply with theirproposals1 could blackmail higher bidders in consideration of their withdrawmg from the 

competition, leavin~ the national Treasury to make good the differ- ence between the b1ds of these two classes of swindlers. The Postmaster-General urged the necessity of a remedy, and one was afforded 

him in the law from which I quote a section: 

SEc. 250. That no contract for carrying the mail shall be made with any person who has entered, or proposed to en tar, into any combination to prevent the making 

of any bid for carrying the mail, or who has made any agreement, or given or per. 

fol'Dled, or promised to ~ive or perform, any consideration whatever to induce any other person not to bid for any such contraet; and if any person so offending is a contractor for caiTying the mail his contract may be annulled; and for the first 

offense the person so offending shall be disquali.iied to contract for carrying the 

mail for five years, and for the second offense shall be forever disqualified. 

* * * * * * * 

That any person or persons bidding for the transportation of the mails upon any route which maybe advertised to be let, and receiVlllg an 3war·d of the contract for 

such service, who shall wrongfnlly refuse or fail to enter into a contract with the Post. 

master.Gcnera,J, in due form, and perfol'lll 'the service described in his or their bill or proposal, shall be deemed ~nilty of a misdemeanor, and, on conviction thereof, be 

punished by a :fincnotexceeding 5,000, and by imprisonment for a t-erm not exceed· 

mg twelve months. 

Now, Mr. Speaker, let us apply this provision of t.he law to offers 

for carrying the mails over the route referred to by the gentleman 

from Iowa, [Mr. KASSON]-the route terminating at tho Dalles, in 

the State of Ore~on. It is about to be let, he says, at from sixty to 

seventy thousana dollars per annum. It is now supplied at a cost of 

something over $220,000. Under the present law, a bid as large in 

amount as the present contract price would have to be accompanied 

by a draft for at least $11,000, forfeitable to the United States on the 

failure of the bidder to execute his contract. This would very naturally make bidders cautious. And besides the section quoted, there 

i.8 another, jmpo in 0" punishment by fine and imprisonment on po tmasters or other officers who falsely certify to the sufficiency of the 

guarantors or sureties on the bidders' bonds; and still another, disqualifying any person, under certain circumstances, from ever receiving a contract for carrying the mails. 

In a word, Mr. Speaker, we have, for the first time in the history of 

the Post-Office Department, required m n to make honest bids for 

performing mail service of this kind, and the first results are large 

reductions in the cost of transportation. To trace these reductions 

to the abolition of the franking privilege will be found by the gentleman from Iowa [1\Ir. KASSO~l to be a tiresome chase. He would 

doubtless be weary even before he could find a single bidder who gave 

the subject one ea1·nest t.hought. 

Bnt, 1\lr. Speaker, I am compelled to huny through with my re- marks, or else disappoint gentlemen who have been promised a part 

of my time . . I will therefore refer to another reason that will influ- ence me to vote against so much of the bill under consideration as provides for sending documents in the mails without cost to mem- bers. I refer now to the cost of printing t.he e documents. The aggregate expense of printing and binding documents ordered by law 

la t year, as shown by the Congressional Printer's report, ran up to 

674,684.25. This is exclusive of the cost of the printing done on the 

separate order of the Houses, and is therefore as near an approximation to the cost of printing such documents as a.re prepared for general distribution as I can make without devoting considerable ex- amination into figures. It is accurate enough to show that at least 

$500,000 per year can be saved by not printing public documents for 

distribution amo?-g the rna. ses. So long as the expense of conveying 

such documents ill the mails must be borne by members from their own purses, amounting to about one-fourth of their compensation 

per year, I am quite certain the orders for printing will be few an<l 

limited. I therefore go for saving the half million to the Treasury 

for at lea tone year, during which time we cau make up an intelligent judgment on this whole subject; and if then it shall appear that 

the exclusion of free matter from the mails does diminish the expense 

of carrying them, and if the people shall miss these contributions to 

their literature enough to indicate their anxiety for their continuance, 

I will, if I should be here, join in an effort to revive the whole or a part of the old law. At present, however, I cannot do so. There is a better solution of the insolvency of the Post-Office Department than that affor<led by the theory that the franking privilege causes it. I have taken the trouble, since I began to think of this 

subject, to make up a statement of the cost of some of the expensive 

routes in Texas, Nebra ka, ancl some of the Territories. I find .that 

the cost of sending the mails over one route in Nebraska, five in 

Texas, and five in the Territories, amounts, under the present contract 

prices, to 681,293 per year, whiJe the salaries of postmasters on the 

line of these rout.es, which are the closest data we have to arrive at 

the .amounts of the revenues derived from the mail service thereon, 

aggregate only $34,009; showing that there has been paid out year 

after year, in supplying these long routes in the several TeiTitories 

and in two or three of the States named, the sum of $645,000 over and above the entire receipts of the offices thus supplied. I wiJl 

further state to the House that the mail service over the e routes is 

in some cases performed seven times a week each way, in others sjx, 

3fd in no case les than twice. Now, sir, the e long and expensive 

mail-routes supply the hardy pioneers who settle our frontiers with 

the means of communicating with the rest of the world, and assist in 

carrying to their cabins the evidences of spreading intelligence and 

civilization in thickly settled communities. They do much to make 

frontier life endurable; and while I would not cut them off, it might 

be possible to lessen the service on them, an<l thus reduce expen es. At any rate they have done more to bnil<l up balances a~ainst the 

Treasury than all the matter ever caiTied under cover of tne frank; 

and yet, sir, I would permanently dispense with the frank sooner than 

curtail these mail facilities. 

I have now done with that branch of the subject, and beg leave 

to call the attention of the House to only one more. C'rtmtlemen 

have spoken a~ though the passage of this bill, providin~ for the 

furnishing of stanlps to carry public documents free in tne mails, 

would antagonize the position of the Postmaster-General. I do not so understand it. Four years ago, when he first presented this sub- ject to Congress, he only took ground against the transmjs ion of free 

matt.er in the mails. He then recommended the plan of providing the 

several Departments and Senators and Representatives with stamps 

to cover their official correspondence and the cost of sending official 

documents. Even in what I have said I did not suppose I was criticising his recommendations. I have only challenged the accuracy of 

his calculations and predictions. The supporters of the bill need not 

assault his positions on this subject, for his first suggestions are in 

the line of their wishes. To make good this statement, I will ask 

the Clerk to read a brief extra~t from his first annual report. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

It is not proposed or desired that Government officials should be personally taxed 

for the transmission of their public correspondence. It is asked, on the other 

hand, that every Department, every member of Congress, and every other public officer, shall have a liberal allowance of stamps for postage, subject to a proper 

accountability, and that the sum necessary therefor shall be appropriated out of the 

general Treasury. 

:Mr. TYNER. Now, sir, jf the House will bear withmeforamoment 

only, while I present in as concise a form as possible two or three 

rea-sons why I support the rest of the bill, I will then yield to one or two 

other gentlemen. Every gentleman must recognize the fact that there 

is the great,est injustice and inequality in the rates of postage on new -

papers. There is not the same injustice and inequality in the rates 

of postage on letters. Drop-letters, in towns and cities where the 

letter-carrier system baa not been adopted, are charged postage at 

the rate of one cent per half ounce; in cities where letter-car1·iers are employed, two cents; while mail-letters are charged three cents. 

The distinction is clear and explicit; the additional posta~e is charged as an equivalent for the cost of conveying the- letter ill the mails. 

There is no such distinction in newspaper postage. The subscriber 
1874 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1653 

of a weekly pays as much postage on the newspaper he takes from 

the delivery-window of the-post office in the town where it is published, and which ha..s never been in a mail-sack, as though it had 

been carried from the Atlantic to the Pacific coast. I need only state 

this fact with which, however, all are fa.miliar, to show the gross 

injustice· of continuing the present law. The country press is generally poor, and unable to bear the heavy and unnecessary burdens. 

To give them a fair chance with the great metropolitan weeklies, made 

up as they are of clippings from dailies alrea4y in print, and, therefore, 

inexpensive, we must give them some advantages in the way of cheap 

postage, or no postage at all. And not only the press, but those who 

support the press-the subscribers of the country weeklies-demand 

their free conveyance in the mails. The proposition is, therefore, not 

to extend favors to publishers alone, but to their patrons. But if 

gantlemen will not put them on the free list, I at least urge the propriety, as an act of justice and common honesty, that they shall be 

charged postage at merely nominal rates. 

And in behalf of exchanges it is only necessary to say that the 

continuance of postage on them is the continuance of a tax on the 

spread of information. This medium of interchangjng thought for 

public use, public improvement, and public welfare, ought not to be 

obstructed for the single purpose of deriving a paltry sum in the way 

of postage. Let it go free as raw material out of which improved 

thoughts and ideas are manufactured, and then require prepayment on all other newspapers except weeklies. If this be done.t my observation and experience enable me now to promise more t.han double 

the revenue derived from postage on all newspapers under the present 

loose system of collecting it. 

I now yield seven minutes to the gentleman from Pennsylvania, 

(Mr. TOWNSEl'I"'D.] 

Mr. TOWNSEND. Believing as I do that the perpetuity of republican institutions depends upon the intelligence and virtue of the people, I am in favor of the largest dissemination of information among 

the masses. With this sentiment in my mind, I shall vote for the bill 

that has been rf)ported by the committee, a-sking, however, when the 

proper time shall arrive, that some amendments may be made to it in 

order to remove unjust discriminations in favor of some and against 

others of the newspapers of the country. 

In the third section of the bill the committee has provided, and I 

think very justly too, that weekly newspapers shall be sent free of 

postage to individuals residing in the county of publication. This is a privilege that was afforded to them previous to the abolition of the 

franking privilege; and it is one which I think should be accorded 

to them in the interest of general education, through the dissemination of knowledge among the people. It also enables them to com- pete more f11lly with the newspapers of the great cities, which, with 

their large capital and greater facilities, crowd hard upon the country 

pnpers, and in some districts affect materially their circulation. 

But I wish to call the attention of the House to the injustice of 

restricting this privilege merely to weekly newspapers. There is 

growing up around us a new kind of daily paper of great value, that 

may properly be called the people's newspaper. It is the little one- cent newspaper, like the one I hold in my hand, that is published 

daily in the different towns throughout the country. They are now most unjustly taxed, at a far higher rate, in proportion to their subscription prices, than are the large dailies of the great cities. 

This newspaper is one published in my district, and is like three or four others that are published there. It is the only daily paper that 

reaches the poor man. It goes to the laboring man, the mechanic, the 

artisan, and affords them all the daily reamng of the news that they 

get. These papers are ably edited; they condense the topics of the 

day, political and literary, and contain the local news. Their circulation is circumscribed by the bounds of the county where they are published; generally speaking they do not get outside of it. The greater 

part of their issue is now sent through the mail to the little country 

villages, and afford the principal daily reading of their inhabitants. 

This daily, called the Daily Local News, is furnished to subscrib- ers at the rate of three dollars per year. The postage upon it is $1.20 

per year, or 40 per cent. of the subscription price. This other daily 

printed in my district, the Chester Evening News, is issued at $2.75 

per annum. · The annual postage upon it is $1.20, or 44 per cent. of the ~ubsoription price. 

I also have here a copy of the New York Tribune, a daily paper 

printed in the city of New York, containing a much larger amount of 

information, and going almost entirely among the wealthier classes of 

the community. The subscription price is ten dollars per year; yet it 

pays only $1.20 per aunum in the shape of postage, the same as the 

others, or only 12 per cent. of the subscription price. I say, then, 

that this is an unjust ancl odious discrimipation against the poor man and in favor of the rich man, taxing the information afforded the 

former at a much higher rate than that of the latter. 

More than that, I ma.y say that these large city dailies pay no posta~e 

at all in perhaps nine cases out of ten. They do not circulate largely 

through the mails. They are carried in large packages by express 

companies throughout the country; they are distributed by newspaper agents in every large town and at every station along the railroads. By taking large quantitie..s of them the newspaper agents are enabled to get them at a reduction on the yearly rate of subscription, and are generally enabled to sell them to their cURtomers at ·the reg- ular subscription price without the addition of postage, thus making a still greater difference between the country and metropolitan 

dailies. 

Therefore, when the proper time arrives, if the gentleman who has 

charge of this bill will allow me-and if not, I hope the opportunity 

will in another way be afforded-I prop6se to offer an amendment, to 

strike out from the third section the word "weekly," and to insert in 

its place the words "aU others" before the word "newspapers;" so that all newspapers printed in any county shall be distl'ibuted free of 

postage through the mails to the subscribers in that county. I feel 

that this privilege is due to this important class of newspapers. 

I wish to make a single further remark with regard to what is con- sidered the public sentiment of the people in relation to the abolition 

of the franking privilege. You have all seen here the large number 

of petitions exhibited to-day by the gentleman from Iowa, [Mr. 

KAssoN.] I do not know that in the whole course of legislation on this floor there has ever been exhibited to the House or to the nation a more purely artificial public sentiment than that which was got up 

for the abolition of the franking privilege. It wa-s a sentiment inaugurated in the Post-Office Department; it was got up by the Post- ma~ter-General, who, believing, no doubt, it was in the interest of 

the Government, had circulars printed here and sent out to all the 

postmasters in the nation, who seemed to consider it their official 

duty to obtain signatures to those petitions and send them h ere. In 

regard to all the petitions that were sent to me, there were but two_ letters accompanying them, and in neither one of them was any 

request made to me to support the proposition to abolish the franking 

privilege. Those petitions came to me without note. or comment. 

The postmasters seemed to think it was incumbent on them to get 

signatures and forward the petitions. It was in that way that this 

artificial public sentiment was made manifest. It was not a spontaneous effusion of the people's will. And we, not being aware then, as we are now, how the thing was done, very hastily, and I think, 

injudiciously, repealed the franking privilege. 

In the interest of the people, therefore, who ought to have information disseminated among them as cheaply as possible, who are entitled to know what we do here, I feel that all public documents 

printed by Congress should have a ready and ext.ensive circulation, 

for the national benefit in the enlightenment of the public mind far 

outweighs the comparatively small expense they occasion. 

Let then the people have every opportunity to be informed through 

the medium of congressional publications and cheap newspapers. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. TYNER. I now yield to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. GARFIELD] for seven minutes. 

Mr. GARFIELD. I have OJJly two or three reflections which I wish 

to submit to the House. In the first place, I quite agree with what 

has been said here by one gentleman, that it is not yet time for us to 

say that we have fairly tried the effect of the repeal of the franking 

privilege. The repeal took effect only on the 1st day of July last, 

and we have had less than eight months in which to test its results. 

I£ we restore the frank, as proposed in the pending bill, it ought to 

be because we have already found by experience that it was unwise 

legislation, or because we have clear and conclusive proof that the 

people demand its restoration. I have heard no evidence that either 

of these conditions ex:i.IIts at the present time. 

Gentlemen have sneered at the twenty-five thousand petitions that were laid before Congress, because most of them were copies of a blank 

sent out by the Postmaster-General. It is neither wise nor just 

to sneer at a petition because the man signing it is not the man who 

drafted its prayer. I hope gentlemen will not throw contempt 

upon the people by insinuating that they were made the tools of the 

Postmaster-General; that they were duped into signipg petitions 

which they knew and cared nothing about. The fact 1s, 1\fr. Speaker, 

there was a general demand for the repeal of the franking privilege, 

and a very general conviction that it had grown to be an abuse. The 

impression had become general, though erroneous, that the frank was a sort of corrupt perquisite which Congressmen enjoyed, and which 

ought to be taken away from them. In so far as that was the feeling 

I did not sympathize with it at all. It was not on any such ground 

that I voted for the repeal. True, there were abuses growing out of 

the frank. Who can deny that the abuse was great when we saw two political armies quartered in the two wings of this Capitol during 

the last presidential campaign, one of them sending out their franked 

documents by the million from one end of the Capitol, and the other 

sending them out by the million from the other, with an army of 

clerks at work ancl the mails loaded with tons of weight which bore no share of the burden of supporting~ the postal service t I believe 

that was an abuse, and an abuse that good men everywhere wanted to see abolished. The franking privilege having been abolished, let us stand by the present system, and fairly test its results. If we find that 

any marked injustice has been wrought by the law, let us amend it. 

But in my judgment it would be unseemly trifling for us to restore 

the frank as proposed in this bill. We have seen the dozen basketfuls of petition& sent in at the last session, asking for the repeal, but 

we have not seen a single _petition asking for the restoration of the 

frank. 

Gentlemen say that the restoration is to be made in the interest of 

the people. Let us at lea-st wait till they ask for it. 

I admit that to abolish the frank for the Executive Departments 

and to issue official postage-stamps is in itself no saving of money. This 
l654 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

has apparently swelled onr appropriations for the current year by 

almost $2,000,000; and yet the $:.3,000,000 worth of stamps authorized to 

be used actually cost the Government les than$ ,000. So that an actual e~-penditnre of $8,000 in money appears on the books of the 

Trea..sury as an expenditure of $2,000,000. That is one of the items 

which made the appropriations of the last Congress appear larger 

than they really were. Bnt there is another phase of the case that has seemed to me a much 

greater abuse t han the frank itself. I refer to the extraOTdinary 

amount of public printing . .Aside from the Congressional Globe, which 

cost us a.bout $350,000 a year, we have been paying nearly $2,000,000 a year, for several years, for public printing. The Executive Departmtmts and Congress have been printing, binding, and issuing books 

and documents by the million of copies. We have been sending 

them out without any special knowledge of what the demand of the 

country was for such documents. To accomplish this we have built 

and maintained the largest printing house on the glope. I believed 

this excessive amount of printing was an abuse, and an a.buse that 

nothing but the repeal of the frank would correct. )f this bill should 

pass, all that evil will be brought back upon us. The whole business 

of printing to the amount of $2,000,000 a year, for the purpose of sending out documents which we certainly do not know whether the p eo- ple want or not, will be continued. We shall continue to tax the 

many to print documents for the few; and that, too, not on their 

demand, but of our own motion. The abuses of the frank and of the 

ext.ravagant printing heretofore done ought not to be revived. 

But in repealing the franking privilege I think we did injustice to one class of our citizens, an injustice which, in my judgment, we ought to rectify. For this reason I am in favor of passing one section, 

and only one section, of the bill of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, 

[Mr. PACKER.] I refer to the third section, which makes newspaper 

exchanges free and allows papers to circulate free within the counties 

where they are published. I will vote for that section as a matter of 

justice and of public policy. .As the case now stands, the repeal of 

the frank has seriously crippled the country newspaper press. The 

.five thousand weekly newspapers of the United States are, in my 

judgment, our most authentic exponents of public opinion. Compare, 

for exampl~, the metropolitan journal with the country paper, in 

their relation to the public mind. In one case the editor is the head 

of a great business establishment, which he manages in the interest 

of its owners. The telegraph brings him in communication with cen- tral points of a vast area of country; but those points are mainly 

cities and villages. His staff all are brilliant thinkers and accom- plished writers, but they have little contact with the people themselves. By midnight the metropolitan journalist has received at his 

office the brief report of the most striking events of the day from 

other cities and centers, and he dashes off a brilliant editorial which 

he sends out a thousand miles in all directions, and this is called the 

sentiment of the .American people. Compare this with the less brilliant work of the country newspaper editor. In the course of the week 

he sees and converses with men from every township of his county, 

and his mind thus becomes .filled with the prevailing thoughts and 

sentiments around him. If he be a sensible and observing man, the 

week's intercourse with his fellow-citizens will make his paper a better exponent of the sentiment of his county than all the distant 

metropolitan journals of the United States put together. I do not say 

this to disparage these journals. They have a value per.uliarly their own. But the five thousand weekly newspapers of the country are far more truly the photographs of the public mind than the great daily 

j ournals are. If I am correct in these views, it would be a public calamity if the 

country press should be destroyed or seriously crippled. 

Now the repeal of the frank has clearly had this tendency. It threat- ens to break down a large number of the small country newspapers that 

could only compete with the metropolitan press by the aid of their free 

circulation within their counties. But aside from these considerations of public policy, it is a positive injustice to charge the same rate 

of postage for both these classes of papers. The weekly New York 

paper coming a thousand miles or more, and weighing three times as much as the small country newspaper, can now be delivered at the same r ate of postage as one of those country newspapers which is car- ried to a post-office but five miles from the place of publication. This 

is an injustice which ought to be remedied. It ought to be remedied 

in the name of public education; and the metropolitan press ought 

to consent to it for their own good, to enable them to know more accurately and fully what are the tides and currenJ;s of public opinion. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I would like to inquire of the 

gentleman whether all those country newspapers did not ask that we 

shollld abolish the franking privilege. 

Mr. GARFIELD. I do not know whether they did or not. 

1r. BUTLER, of Massachusetts. I know they did; and I thought 

at the time they would get sick of it. [Laughter.] . Mr. PARKER, of Missouri. Mr. Speaker, recognizing the full force 

of that German proverb that "speech is silver, but silence is gold," if 

it had not been for some of the extraordinary posit.ions of my friend 

from Iowa [Mr. KASSON] on this question, I would not have said a word upon it. But I want to say in the beginning of the brief r e- marks I wish to make on this Question I am wholly in favor of the 

bill of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr. PACKER,] chairman of 

the Committee on Post-Offices aud Post-Roads. I was in favor of that 

bill when first introduced. 

I confess the beauty and eloquence and pathos with which tho 

gentleman from Iowa [l\fr. KASSON] alluded to the condition of the 

little boy and that poor, broken-down old mare which carried the mail 

through his district so worked on my sympathetic natme that for a moment I was swayed from the support of this bill. [Lanrrhter.] I 

wish to make a statement in connection with that fact. I~ 1869 and 

1870 I went into the gentleman's district in Iowa, and I did not fintl a horse or a mare in that district able to stand. 'l'he people told me there they had all been broken down packing over the county these 

public documents. [Laughter.] It will be remembered by the Honse that the ~entleman from Iowa [Mr. KASSON] wa>S in CongTess at that 

time, and if there was any abuse of this privilege at that period it 

must have been done by him. 

Let us look a moment at this magnificent plan the gentleman proposes to this House and which he asks it to a-dopt. By way of prelude I w~ll. remar~ right here that. th;ere ~ one disease afflicting the 

body-politic of thts country, and It lS th1s : that every time a pull- lie man, every time a legislator, every time a lawgiver in the land crosses the briny deep he is not satisfied unless he can come back here 

and graft upon this republican tree of ours some scion of monarchy 

and aristocmcy. This bill of the gentleman from Iowa is one of those 

obnoxious shoots from the royal stem of old England brought over here by the gentleman from Iowa. [Laughter.] This does very well 

in a country where the ruling class is interested in keeping the honest masses of the country in absolute ignorance, but it will not do in this 

broad land of light and liberty, where intelligence is the sheet-anchor 

of ·the people's hopes and the people's liberties. It will not do in 

republican America. . 

Now, how is it in England 'I .All over the British Isles you will 

find establishments organized and presided over by persons called 

"the Queen's booksellers"-persone who have the privilege of selling 

public documents, and who are permitted to place over their places 

of business the Queen's coat of arms. Do you want "the Presi- dent's booksellers" all over the country! I suppose that will be the 

next step. That, I presume, will be the next shoot that some man who so much admires the institutions across t he water will seek to 

ingraft upon the republican institutions of this country. 

Mr. Speaker, I want none of it. Nor do I wish the rule to prevail 

which prevailed in Rome when a tyrant made the laws which ema- nated from his own breast only, and then hung them up so hi<Th the 

people could not rea-d them, in order that he might take advantage of 

their ignorance and punish them. 

You lock up the avenues of intelligence connected with this GoV'lernment; you break down the baniers against corruption the moment 

you do it. It is the duty and the right of the people of this cotmtry 

to know what we are doing here, to know what these Departments are doing, to know what is being done by their representatives. 

Now I will have to pass on, as my time admonishes me I must be 

brief on each point. 

The gentleman from Iowa made a remark which I am sure he did 

not intend, and it is this: that if we could look into the hearts of 

members here we would find it was not for the purpose of di semi- nating knowledge among the people that they support this bill of 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania, but because they desire their own advancement. It is not the first time I have heard some would-be 

leaders of this House impugning the motives of other gentlemen here. If I were disposed I could 8ay, but I will not, that, when I take up 

the substitute of the gentleman from Iowa, it was not for the purpose of disseminating information among the people that he desired the 

newspapers of the county should circulate free, but it was from the 

fear of what might be said by this palladium of our liberties, the 

unpurchased and unpurchasable press. [Great laughter.] I could 

say that, but I will not do it. [Renewed laughter.] 

There is another point. He says the republican party adopted a platform at Philadelphia, and he referred to the t enth resolution of 

that platform, which says the franking privilege ought to be abolished. He then said that the Forty -second Congress came back hero from the 

Philadelphia convention and immediately complied with that r esolution by abolishing the franking privilege. While I think they did it 

at that time, yet, to use avulgarphrase, they kicked their own action 

in the face, because at the same session of Congress they provided 

for allowing forty thousand of the people to exercise this very privi- lege. That is what that Congress did. Consistency is a jewel, but it 

ought to be worn by the gent1eman as well as by th.e rest of us. 1\Ir. KASSON. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him why he 

voted in the last Congress for the repeal of the franking privilege, 

under Mr. FaJ·nsworth's billY :What new light has he received f 

If he thought the franking privilege should be done away with then, 

why does he want it restored now Y 

1\Ir. P .A.RKER, of Missouri. .As I have only seven minutes, I cannot 

go fully into what is suggested by the gentleman from Iowa. In the 

vote I gave, to which the gentleman refers, I voted with the whole 

House, and in pursuance of the ~~ction of the r epublican convention 

held at Phila-delphia at that time. But I will say to the gentleman 

that it was the a.buse of the franking privilege which the people ob- . jected to, which the Phila-delphia republican convention objected to, 

aud which the Forty-second Congress objected to. It wa.s not the 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1655 

exercise of what was really a privilege of the people, such as is sought 

to be given by this bill of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, but it was the abuse of this privilege that had grown up which was objected 

to by the country. The personal frank of members had been used 

without their consent. The frank of the Departments bad been used 

without their consent. And the object and intent. of the republican . convention, in passing its resolution in reference to the franking pri vilege, was to destroythat abuse. 

LHere the hammer fell.] 

Mr. TYNER. I yield seven minutes, the balance of my time, to my 

coilea()'ue from Indiana, [Mr. PACKARD.] 

Mr. PARKER, of Missouri. I would like a few minutes longer. 

Several JlriEllrnERS. "Go on I" "Go on I" 

The SPEAKER. There is a request made that the gentleman from 

Missouri [Mr. PARKER] may proceed without prejudice to the right 

of the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. TYNER] to assign the balance of 

his time. Is there objection 'I The Chair hears none. Mr. PARKER, of Missouri. I will say further, that when I gave 

that vote I knew that it would become necessary to give the Departments this privilege; I knew it would become necessary to give the 

people this privilege, such a privilege as we eeek to give them in this 

bill of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr. PACKE~.] Iknewt.hat 

it would become absolutely necessary; and upon no other principle can the action of that Congress be explained. Upon that principle, 

and that alone, can it be consistently andjustly and honestly explained. 

Now, it is not sought by thiS bill of the gentleman from Pennsylvania to re-estab~h the abuse at a."ll. Nobody asks by this bill that 

this personal privilege belonging to the members of this House and 

of 1;he Senate shall be restored. What is wanted is simply that the means of disseminating information justly due to the people of this 

country shall be restored to them. 

J\11'. KASSON. But the bill expressly provides that this very matter shall be sent under the frank of the members of the two Houses. 

Mr. PARKER, of Missouri. That is merely as a means of authenticating the document that is to be sent. The bill further provides that no document shall be sent that has not been ordered to be published 

by both this House and the Senate. 

Mr. KASSON. The first section provides for a stamp, and then 

there is also a provision made that the matter shall be sent under a frank. 

Mr. P .ARKER, of Missouri. The name of the member on the ba{}k of 

the book is a certification to the proper officer of the House that the 

document is one that ought to go. Is it not the name of the member 

which carries it through the mail 'f 

Mr. KASSON. It is. It cannot go without it. 

Mr. PARKER, of Missouri. The name of the member alone does ·not carry it. :Mr. WILBER. Will not a clerk be able to use the member's frank, as before'/ 

:Mr. PARKER, of Missouri. It will do him no good if he does use it, for no book or document will go through the mails under this bill 

unless it is stamped by the Clerk of the House or the Secretary of 

the Senate. It is the stamp which carries it through. and not the name of the member. 

If you confine the privilege to the members of Congress, that, I suppose, will deter any other man from the use of it; although perhaps 

it may be true that there is rio law you can pass which some one will 

not violate. 

I desire to make just one other remark in answer to the gentleman 

from Iowa, [Mr. KAssoN.] His whole argument on this floor was against the restoration of the franking privilege. The tenor of his 

speech was in that direction. He appeals to the feelings of this House 

by bringing up here piles of petitions that had been lying away in some underground pigeon-holes for several years. He undertakes, I suppose, to frighten somebody by these postmasters' petitions. But what 

does the gentleman do himself in that connection f He is willing to 

restore the privH~e of free transmission through the mails to one class of people. He is willing that a man who publishes a news- paper for a business, and for profit, shall have it. But he is not willing that the people should come to the fountain-head and get their 

knowledge here in the shape of these authentic documents published 

by authority of Congress and distributed to the people for their information. · I do not know, sir, how it is in the gentleman's district. But I wish 

to say in reference to my own people that there is not a single document published here that is not sought after and read and studied by 

the people of my district. Unfortunately for me and for the people 

of my district we do not get enough of them. 'Ve do not get as many as we ought to have. Gentlemen parade here the cost of the publication of thesedocuments. I say, sir, that one of the duties of this Govm·nment is to disseminate intelligence, and I do not care what the cost 

ma.y be. When we talk of the cost of supporting our Army and our Navy I will have something to say in objection to it. But when we come to the post-office system or any system which disseminates knowledge and information among the people, let it cost what it may, I am in iavor of it. 

ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. 

1\Ir. PENDLETON: from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, repo~cd 

that they had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: An act (S. No. 438) to withhold from sale the site of the old lightstation at Nyatt Point; and 

An act (H. R. No. 1906) to dredge and protect the navigable channel at the mouth of Bufl:hlo River against the sand-bar formed by the 

gale of December, 1873. 

TRA.l.~Sl\fiSSION OF PUBLIC DOCIDIENTS. 

The House resumed the consideration of the bill in relation to the 

transmission of public documents, &c. 

l\fr. PACKARD. On the 15th of December last I had the honor to 

introduce into this House a bill, which I send to the Clerk's desk to be 

read as a portion of my remarks, and which, if I have the opportunity, 

I shall ofler as a substitute for the bill now under consideration. 

The Clerk rea-d the I?ill, as follows : 

A bill to provide for the free transmission by mail of certain mail matter. 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following mail matter shall be allowed to 

pass free in the mail: first, official matter, written or printed, sent by or addressed to chiefs, heads of Bureaus, chief clerks, or other officer of either of the Executive 

Departments, including all such blanks as are required by the business of the sev- eral Departments ; secondly, copyright matter to the Librarian of Congrells, if 

marked on the package "Copyright matter;" thirdly, petitions to Congress, if prop- erly marked and designated; fourthly, notices to publishers of the refusal or neglect 

of subscribers to take newspapers, magazines, or other periodicals from the postoffice, to be sent under such reaulati<!ns as the Pos~aster-G eral may prescribe; fifthly. dead letters returned to ~e wr1ters thereof; SIXthly, not more than t en copies of each of t.he public documents published by order of Congress to each of the sev- eral congressional districts and Territories of the United States, to be placed in such 

public school or college libraries a.s Representatives and Delegates may designate, the same to be sent under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior, properly stamped and marked; seventhly, weekly newspapers, one copy to each actual sub 

scriber within the county where the same is published and m the counties imme . diately ad.joining. . SEc.. 2. '!'hat all mail matter not hereinbefore specially made free must be prepaid 

by postage-stamps. 

Mr. P .A.CKARD. In the introduction of the bill which has just 

been rea-d I had in view certain objects, one of which was the transmission of certain kinds of mail matter, and especiallyofficial matter 

sent out from the Departments. My design was to obviate any neces- sity on the part of the Government to print stamps to be placed upon 

the communications, documents, and blank forms by which the Departments of the Government transact their own officia,J. business. 

That was one of the objects of my bill. 

Another object was to provide for the transmission free through 

the mails of newspapers in the counties where published. .Anc1, as will be seen by reference to the bill which has just been rea.d, it would 

extend that privilege to the counties immediately adjoining. It 

seemed to me that that was proper, for this reason: As a matter of 

fact, country newspapers do not circulate much outside of the county 

where they are published. But there is occasionally a newspaper 

published on the edge of a county, almost on the county line, outside 

of the county seat. The circulation of such newspapers is very frequently grea in the adjoining county than in the county where 

it is actually published. My design wa-s to provide for cases of that 

sort. I believe it is just and right that those cases should be provided 

for. And I believe that it is just and right that country newspapers 

should have this free circulation in the counties where published and 

in the adjoining counties. The difference in postage receipts would 

be unappreciable, for the reason that the circulation of the country 

newspapers is, except in rare instances, almost wholly in the counties 

where published. ' 

Another object I had in view was to provide for the dissemination 

of information among the people. I hope that in any opposition 

which I may manifest toward the bill of the committee no member 

of this House, and no person who may hear or read what I say to-day: 

will suppose for one moment that I am opposed to the dissemination 

of information among the people. I believe that the bill which I 

have presented will furnish that information to the people more effectually and better than the bill which has been reported by the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. 

And how and whyY The documents which we sep.d out from Congress as its publications are books· of reference only. Very few of 

them are read through from beginning to end; that is not their purpose. They are books of reference. Sometimes I may want to consult a page of one of those books. At another time my neighbor may want 

to consult another page. Now put them where the people can reach 

them, and a lawyer who may want to look into one of the-m would 

have the opportunity to do so. But perhaps in my distributi3n of 

those documents under the old franking system I have failed to send 

the lawyer the document he desires to consult, but have sent it to his 

neighbor, a. merchant, who has no use for that particnlar book. 

Suppose we place these books in the libraries of the country, one or two in each county, in the library at the county seat or in the 

school libraries; I would not be particular as to the number. But if 

we put them into the libraries, then the newspapers and other vehicles of information will inform the people that those books are there. 

And when any question arises that a lawyer, merchant, farmer, or a man pursuing any trade or profession in life, desires to examine, he 

will know where to go for the information. We can put these books 

into the libraries of the country at a mere fra?tion of tho expense 
1656 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

that wonld be incurred by sending them out in the miscellaneous way 

in which they have heretofore been sent. It has been suggested that there would be little or no increa-se of 

expense by sencling documents through the mails. ·when I fi;rst c~e 

to a preceding Congress and was about to vote upon the franking pnviiegc, I thought then, and I still think, that the transmission of documents ilid not add to the expense of carrying the mails. But it will 

add to it now, for the reason that weight has become an element in 

contracts with railroad companies for carrying the mail. We have 

heard it stated here to-day that bidders for contracts have put their 

bids lower than before. I do not know whether that was on account 

of the repeal of the franking privilege, but it seems to me it is rea- sonable to conclude that was held in view by them in making their 

bids. Certainly if I was ~oing to make a bid or a contract for canying the mails over any g1ven route, and I knew that one hundred 

thousand pounds per week were to be carried; or, on the other hand, 

that not more than one thousand pounds were to go, I certainly should 

make a difference in the bid. 

Another element of expense we have right here in the Capitol. The 

Doorkeeper of the Honse a few days ago was directed to reduce his 

force by one-third, because of the abolition of the franking privilege. 

If we resume the right to send public documents through the mails 

free of postage that force must be brought back here. :My colleague 

who has spoken on this bill to-day [Mr. TYNER] has stated, and it is a moderate estimate, that it will certainly increase the expense of the 

Public Printing Office at least $500,000 per annum. Now, under the 

substitute which I propose the people of the country will be furnished 

with documents in a more satisfactory manner than they can possibly be w1der the system of transmission of documents proposed in the 

bill of the committee. Take the agricultural report. Of that document each member receives about six hundred co.J?ies. I have in my 

district thirty thousand voters. Only one out of every fifty of those men can get an agricultural report. Can any man tell me a good rea-son why forty-nine men should help to pay for the agricultural 

report which oneman receivesT Why should A help to pay for the 

book that B gets Y 

In sending out these documents to one in every fifty, they are sent 

generally t.o personal and political friends. ·why should the democrats in my district help my republican friends to pay for their documents; and why should the republicans in the district of my colleague [Mr. NIB.LACK] help to pay for the documents which he sends 

to his democratic fi:iends.Y Under my substitute the people will get 

this information, andeverybodywill be placed on an absolute equality. 

Mr. SPEER. The gentleman has said he sends documents to his 

political or personal friends only; does he not send them to every 

man who asks for them T 

Mr. PACKARD. Certainly ; but, a-s a rule, I send them to my personal friends; there are some democrats who are my personal friends 

and to whom I am glad to send documents; and I suppose other gentlemen do the same. In the few seconds that are left to me I want to add that I have 

regretted to see here to-day a dispo ition to ridicule t:qe petitions that 

have been sent here by the people on the subject of the repeal of 

the franking privilege. My impression is that the people who sent 

those petitions here knew what they were about. Certainly the 

delegates who composed the Philadelphia republican convention, 

and who were from and of the people, could not have misunderstood 

public sentiment. They did not; and they only echoe~ the popular 

feeline: when they said, "The franking privilege ought to be abolished." It is not wrong for Representatives here to listen to that 

voice. It was in obedience to it that the Forty-second Congress 

repealed the franking law. And now, I ask, has there been any demand 

for its restoration T None whatever. The people do. not ask it. They 

do not expect or desire it. We may well and safely delay its restora- tio~ at least until we have some assurance that the country desires it. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. STOWELL obtained the floor. 

Mr. NIBLACK. Before this debate proceeds further I would like 

to submit a proposition to the gentleman having charge of the bill, 

[Mr. PACKER,] that after to-day the debate shall be collfined to tenminute speeches. I think that ill this way gentlemen who desire to 

be heard would be better accommodated, better than under the present 

arrangement, by which any gentleman obtaining the floor holds it for 

anheur. 

Mr. PACKER. The committee have no desire at all to shut off 

debate on the bill. Whenever the House desires to close the debate we Are willing to ask for the previous question. On the other hand, so long as the House desires the debate to continue we have no wish 

to stop it. 

The SPEAKER. The arrangement suggested by the gentleman 

from Indiana [Mr. NIBLACK] cannot be made except by unanimous 

consent, or by a suspension of the rules on Monday. 

Mr. :MAYNARD. I object. 1'.11:. POTTER. I wish to say to the gentleman in charge of this bill, 

that thus far no gentleman on this side of the House has been allowed 

to speak at all, either for or against the bill. Some of us would like 

to occupy at least ten minutes. 

1\fr. WILLARD, of Vermont. Let me remind the gentleman that 

this side of the House will be held responsible for the action on this 

bill. [Laughter.] · 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Is this to be a close corporation, and are gentle- men on the other side to take the responsibility together with all the 

perquisites of the concern Y [Laughter.] 

Mr. PACKER. Not at all. We are very anxious to bear from gentlemen on the other side. There is no effort on the part of the committee to restrict debate in any particular. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. My r emark was directed to the gentleman from 

Vermont, [Mr. WILLARD,] not to the gentleman who ha-s charge of the 

bill. I thought I had a right to go for a Vermonter whenever I had a chance. [Laughter.] 

Mr. WILLARD, of Vermont. We are ready for you. Mr. GARFIELD. I hope the House will close this question as soon as possible, that we may get to other matters of public business which are of less consequence, perhaps, but which it is necessary to con- sider. 

Mr. STORM. Tho gentleman from Ohio [Mr. GARFIELD] always 

wants debate to clo e after he has made his speech. 

1\fr. GARFIELD. If the House would fix a time when the debate 

shall close-say four weeks from now or three weeks from now, any 

reasonable time-I think it would be desirable. 

Mr. COBB, of Kansas. It seems that the older members of this 

House always have an opportunity to speak when their committees report and when every other committee reports. But inasmuch as about one hundred and seventy of us were not members of any former 

Congress and may desire to get our views before the country when our committees report, the gentleman from Ohio will pardon us if 

in this case w desire to keep open the discussion until we can be 

heard. 

Mr. GARFIELD. Well, if four weeks be considered too short a time, make it five ; but let us fix some time for the closing of the 

debate. 

Mr. STOWELL. I cannot yield any further. 

Mr. PACKER. But two members ef the committee have yet been 

heard. The Honse will remember that the greater portion of the 

time has been occupied by gentlemen who are not members of the 

committee. Several other members of the committee desire to speak. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Virginia [Mr. STOWELL] is 

entitled to the floor. 

Mr. SENER. I understand my colleague will yield to me to make a motion to adjourn. 

The SPEAKER. The Chair will say in regard to the usage, for there 

is no rule on the subject, where a committee reports a measure, mem- bers for or a~ainst are recognized alternately to the extent of the time 

during whicn the debate is allowed. When the committee is unanimous, opportunity must be given, of course, to expression of opposition 

outside of the committee. The Committee on the Post-Office and PostRoa-ds has bad two hours allotted to its members. The position of the 

gentleman from Virginia, also a member of the committee, is recognized by his holding the floor. The Chair understands the gentleman 

from Tennessee, who is a member of the committee, is opposed to the 

bill, and it will be the duty of the Chair to follow in that way. Members of the committee cannot speak consecutively if the committee is 

unanimous. If the opposition is in the committee it is to be heard 

first, and if it is not in the committee, then other members of the House are heard as chance may fall. That is the law which prevails. 

Mr. CONGER. My objection is this, that the gentleman from Ohio 

[Mr. GARFIELD] after he has had his full say on this subject proposes we shall at once close the door to any further debate. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Ohio has not the power to 

close the door. It would take a majority af the House to do that. 

Mr. STOWELL. I will yield to a motion to take a recess. 

ENROLLED BILLS. 

Mr. PENDLETON, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported 

that they ha-d examined and found truly enrolled an act (S. No. 269) 

to change the titles of certain naval officers, and for other purposes; 

when the Speaker signed the same. 

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

Mr. HODGES, by unanimous consent, was granted leave of absence 

for twenty days. NATHANIEL KUYKENDALL. 

On motion of Mr. HEREFORD, by unanimous consent, leave was grant.ed for the withdrawal from the files of the House of the pa.pers 

in the ca-se of Nathaniel Kuykendall, in order that they may be presented to the Senate, no adverse report having been made. 

FRANK Y. COMMAGERE. 

On motion of Mr. NEGLEY, by unanimous consent, leave was granted for the withdrawal from the files of the House of the papers 

in the case of Frank Y. Commagere, no adverse report having been 

made in the case. 

C. M. FRANCE. 

On motion of Mr. BROMBERG, by unanimous consent, leave was granted for the withdrawal from the files of the House of the papers accompanying a bill (H. R. No. 594) for the relief of C. M. France, of 

Mobile, Alabama, no report having been made as yet in the case. 

ARKANSAS POST-ROUTES. 

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Arkansas [Mr. HYNES] asks 

unanimous consent for the purpose of taking up for action at this 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD: 1657 

time a bill to establish certain post-:routes in the State of Arkansas, 

containing no other legislation whatever. Is there any objection to 

the bill being taken up and considered at t~is time Y • 

Mr. HYNE~. It is merely for the establishment of certam postroutes in the State of Arkansa,s. 

There was no objection. 

The House proceeded to the consideration of a bill (H. R. No. 593) 

to establish certain post-routes in the State of Arkansas. 

M:r. HYNES. There is no legislation whatever in the bill, and I hope 

it will be put on its passage. 

The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time; and 

being engrossed, it was accorilingly read the third time, and passed. 

Mr. HYNES moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

And them, on motion of Mr. POLAND, at (half-past four o'clock p. 

m.,) the House took a recess until half-past seven o'clock p.m. 

~VENING SESSION. 

. The House rea-a embled at half-past seven o'clock p. m., Mr. G. F. 

HOAl{ in the chair as Speaker pro ternpo're. 

REVISION OF THE STATUTES. 

The SPEAKER pro ternpore. The House meets this evening to re- sume the consideration of the bill reported from the Committee on Revision of the Laws of the United.States. It is entitled "A bill (H. 

R. No. 1215) to revise and consolidate the statutes of the United States 

in force on the 1st day of December, A. D. 1873." 

Mr. POLAND. Mr. Speaker, I move on page 629, in section 2512, 

in lines 7 and 8, to strike ont these words, "such place as the Secretary of the Treasury may direct," and insert "Eastport;" so it will 

read: 

SEc. 2512. There shall be in the State of Maine fourteen collection districts, as fol 

lows: 

First. The district of Aroostook; to comprise the county of Aroostook as bounded on the 22d day of February, 1869; in which Houlton shall be the only port of entry. Secoml. The district of Passamaquoddy; in which Eastport shall be a port of 

entry and delivery; and the towns of Calais, Pembroke, and Robbinston ports of 

delivery. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move on page 630, in line 40, to strike out "and 

Alna," strike out "s" after the word "ports," and insert "a" before 

"port;" so it will read: 

Ninth. The district of Wiscasset; in which Wiscasset shall be the port of entry, 

and Booth Bay a. port of delivery. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move on page 630, section 2513, at the end of the 

third line, to in ert, "who shall reside at Houlton;" after the word 

"collector," in fourth line, "who shall reside at Eastport j" at the end 

of the eighth line insert, "wh0 shall reside at Machias;' at the end 

of the ninth line insert, "who shall reside at Ellsworth," and at the 

end of the tenth line insert, "who shall reside at Castine;" so it will 

read: 

SEC. 2513. There shall be in the collection districts in the State of Maine the following officers: 

First. In the district of Aroostook, a collect{)r, who shall reside at Houlton. 

Second. In the district of Passamaquoddy, a collector, who shall reside at Eastport, a deputy collector to reside at the port of Calais, and at Eastport a surveyor, to be co.llea the surveyor of Eastport and the district of Passamaquoddy. 

Third. In the district of Machias, a collector, who shall reside at Machias. 

Fourth. In the ilistrict of Frenchman's Bay, a collector, who shall reside at Ellsworth. 

Fifth. In the district of Castine, a collect{)r, who shall reside at Castine. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendments to the· remainder 

of section 2513, pages 630 and 631 : 

Add at end of line 13, "who shall rel?ide at Belfast." 

Add at end of line 14, "who shall reside at Waldoborough." Add at end of line 15, "who shall reside at Wiscasset." 

Add at end of line 16, "who shall reside at Bath." 

Adfl at end of line 17, "who shall reside at Portland." 

Add at end of line 22, "who shall reside at Kennebunk." 

Add at end of line 23, "who shall reside at York." 

So it will read: 

Sixth. In the district of Bangor, a. collector and a deputy collector, who shall r eside at Frankfort. 

Seventh. In the district of Belfast, a collector, who shall reside at Belfast. 

Eighth. In the district of Waldoborough, a collector, who shall reside at Waldo· 

borough. 

Ninth. In the district of Wiscasset, a. collector, who shall reside at Wiscasset. 

Tenth. In the district of Bath, a collector, who shall r68ide at Bath. 

Eleventh. In the district of Portland and Falmouth, a collector, who shall reside at Portland, not exceeding three deputy collectors, a surveyor, an appraiser, and an assistant ap£:iser. de't:d~th. the district of Sa.co, a collector, who may reside at Saco or Bill· 

Thirteenth. In the district of Kennebunk, a collector, who shall reside at Ken· nebunk, 

Fourteenth. In the district of York, a collector, who shall reside at York. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. I would like the gentleman from Vermont to 

tell us if this is new legislation. 

Mr. POLAND. Not at all. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. If this is a mere collation of the statutes, how 

does it become necessary to add the place of residence' 

Mr. POLAND. The statute in nearly all the collection districts 

provides where the collector shall live. In some instances the revi- sers have pnt that in. In most instances they have left it out. This 

is to supply what is founcl in the statute. The difficulty about making 

any general provision is that the statutes are different. 

l\Ir. ELDREDGE. Does the law now by any general provision, 

require the collectors to live in any particular place in the district¥ 

l\Ir. POLAND. No, sir. 

1\fr. ELDREDGE. If not, how is it that it becomes necessary to 

insert here, in this collation, the place where they shall reside 

Mr. POLfiTD. The provisions of the statute in reference to where 

the collectors shall reside are generally found in the statute relating 

to collection districts. Some of the statutes say the collector shall 

reside at the port of entry. Generally the place is named, and in some instances the revisers have incorporated it. In some instances 

it is in the revision, in others it is not. The instances where we have 

inserted it are the cases where the revisers have omitted it. We 

insert it nowhere except where we find it in the statute, and we put 

it in as we do find it. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. It seems as if this thing had been very loosely 

and carelessly done when we find so many places left out . Mr. POL~TD. The revisers in many instances have left the places 

out. We thought they should be in, and therefore we have taken 

great pains to hunt up all these statutes, and to put in all they provide. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

1\Ir. POLAND. I move to amend section 2518 by ad · g "who shall 

reside at Portsmouth;" so it will read : 

SEC. 2518. There shall be in the district of Portsmouth a collector and a. surveyor, who shall reside at Portsmouth. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendment: 

In section 2521, page 632, line 2, after the word "collector," insert "who shall re· shle at Burlin.!!'ton;" so it will read: 

SEc. 2521. There hall be in the district of Vermont a collector, who shall reside at Burlington, and, at the iliscretionof the President, two surveyors for such ports of delivery as shall be designated by him. 

The amendment wa agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendment: 

On pages 632 and 633, section 2522, in line 18, strike out" Beverly and;" insert" a" 

after "Danvers," andsubstitnte"port"for "ports;" in line 48 strike ont "seventy" 

and insert" ninety;" in line G6 strike out "Dighton;" so the section, as regards the third, ninth, and eleventh districts of Massachusetts, will read as follows: 

Third. The district of Salem and Beverly; to comprise all the ;waters and shores within the towns of Beverly, Salem, and Danvers, as bounded on the 2d clay of 

Ma,rcll, 1799; in which Salem shall be the port of entry, and Danvers a port of 

dehvery. 

Ninth. The district of Edgartown: to comprise all the waters and bores within 

the county of Duke's County, as bounded on the 2d day of March, 1799; in which 

Edgartown shall be the port of entry. Eleventh. The district of Fall River: to comprise all the waters and shores on Taunton Hiver, and in the town of Rehoboth, as bounded on the 2d tlay of March, 

1799, and all that part of t.he town of Tiverton, in Rhode Island, north of tbe south 

line of the farm of William Slade, and of the farm of the heirs of Boylston Brayton, as bounded on the 9th day of August, 1842, to Wattuper Pond, and by that 

pond to the south line of the State of Mas achusetts, and the waters and shores adjoining thereto; in which Fall River shall be the port of entry and delivery, and 

Swansea, Somerset, Freetown, Berkley, and Taunton ports of delivery. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

1\li:. POLAl~D. I offer the following amendment: 

Amend section 2524 so that it will read: 

SEc. 2524. There shall be in the collection districts in the State of Massachusetts 

the following officers: 

First. In the district of New-buryport, a collector and a surveyor, who shall reside at Newburyport. 

Second. In thtl district of Gloucester, a collector and a surveyor, who shall r~side 

at Gloucester. 

Third. In the district of Salem and Beverly, a collector and a surveyor, who shall reside at Salem. 

Fourth. In the district of Marblehead, a collector, who shall reside at Marblehea<l. 

Fifth. In the district of Boston and Charlestown, a collector, a naval officer, a sur- veyor, who shall reside at Bo ton, two appraisers, aml two assistant appraisers, a 

special examiner of drugs, medicines, and chemicals; anll the Secretary of the Treasury may appoint an inspector of customs for the port of Chelsea. 

Si.xth: In the district of Plymouth, a collector, who shall resido at Plymouth, 

Seventh. In the llistrict of Barnstable, a collector, who shall reside at Barnstable. 

Eighth. In the district of Nantucket, a collector, who shall reside at Nantucket. 

Ninth. In the district of Edgartown, a collector, who shall re..c;ide at Edg_a.rtown. Tenth. In the district of New Bedford, a collector, who shall reside at New j;Serlford. Eleventh. In the district of Fall Riv-er, a collector, who shall reside at Fall River. 

1\Ir. ELDREDGE. It would seem that all those amenclments might 

have been included in one by saying these officers should reside at 

the town after which the district is named. 

Ir. POLAND. The laws are so diverse in relatio.n to that thn,t it w~s impo _sible to make any general provision that would include 

them all. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

!.h. POLAND. I offer the following amendment : 

Amend section 2527, page 635, so that it will read : SEc. 2527. There shall tie in the collection districts in the State of Rhode Island 

the following officers: • First. In the district of Newport, a collector, who shall reside at Newport. 

Second. In the district of Bristol and Warren, a collector, who shall reside at Bristol. 

Third. In the district of Providence, a collector and an appraiser, who shall 

reside at Providence. 

The amendment was agreed to. 
1658 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19, 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendment : 

Amend section 2528, page 635, so that, as regards the fourth and fifth diatricts of 

Connecticut, it will rerul as follows : Fourth. The district of New Haven: to comprise the waters and shores from the west line of the district of Middletown westerly to Housatonic River; in which 

New Haven shall be the port of entry, and Guilford, Branford, .Milford, and Derby 

poF'iftb~ ~~:edi;trict of Fairfield : to com rise all the waters and shores in the 

State of Connecticut west of the district of New Haven ; in which Fairfield shall 

l>e the port of entry, and Norwalk, Stratford, Stamford, and Greenwich ports of 

delivery. 

The amendment wa.s agreed to. Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendment : 

Amend section 2529, paae 636, so that it will read as follow~: 

SEC. 2529. There shall tle in the collection districts of the State of Conn.ecticut 

the followrn a officers : First. In the district of Stonington, a collector and a surveyor, who shall resicle at Stonington. Second. In the diatrict of New London, a collector, who shall reside at New LondoThird. In the district of Middletown, a collector, who shall reside at Middloto~t~. In the district of New Haven, a collect<>r, who shallresideatNewHaven. 

Fifth. In the diatrict of Fairfield, a. collector, who may reside at Fairfield or Bridgeport. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendment : 

Amend section 2530, page 636, so that, as regards the third and fifth collection dis· 

tricts of New York, it will reaa as follows: 

Third. The district of Champlain : to comprise all the waters and shores of Lake 

Champlain and the rivers connected therewith within the State of New York; and to extend westwardly alono- the northern boundary line of the State to the river 

Saint Lawrence; in which Plattsburgh shall be the port of entry, and Whitehall 

and Fort Covington ports of delivery. FifiJJ. The district of Cape Vincent; to comprise all the waters and shores of the 

river Saint Lawrence from the western boundary of the county of Saint Lawrence as bounded on the 2d day of March, 1811, and all th~ watt:rs. and s!Im:es ?f .Lake 

Ontario and the rivers and waters connectecl thereWith, Within the JuriSdiction of 

the United States, and within the State of New York, to the western extremity of 

Hungry Bay; in which Cape Vincent s!Iall be the port of entry. 

The amendment was agreed to. Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2531, so that the last part 

will read as f~llows : 

Fifth. In the district of Cape Vincent, a collector, who shall reside at Vincent. 

Sixth. In the district of Oswego, a collector, who shall reside at Oswego. 

Seventh. In the district of Genesee, a collector, who shall reside on the Genesee 

River. 

Eighth. In the district of Niagara, a collector, who shall reside at Suspension 

bW~~h. In the district of Bnffalo Creek, a collector, ~ho shall resid~ at Bnffalo, 

and an appraiser. 

Tenth. In ihe diatrict of Dunkirk, a collector, who shall reside at Dunkirk; and 

for each of the ports of Barcelona, Silver Creek, and Cattaraugus Creek, a deputy collector. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2536, so that the last paragraph will read: 

Sixth. The district of Burlington: to comprise all t.lJe waters ann shores of the 

Delaware River, within the State of New Jersey, northward of the northern bo\llld , ary of thecountyof Gloucester, as bounded on the 2d day of March, 1799; in which 

Burlington shall be the port of entry and Lamberton the port of delivery. · 

The amendment was agreed to. 

:Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2537, so that it will read as follows: 

SEc. 2537. There shall be in the collection districts of the State of New Jersey the 

followin" officers: 

First. 'iii the district of Newark, a collector, who shall reside at Newark. 

Second. In the district of Perth Amboy, a collector, who shall reside at Perth 

Amboy. · Third. In the district of Little Egg Harbor, a collector, who shall reside at Tucker- town. 

Fourth. In the district of Great Egg Harbor, a collector, who shall reside atsnch 

place within the district as may be designated by the Secretary of the Treasury, Fifth. In the district of Bridgeton, a collector, who shall reside at Bridgeton. 

Sixth. In the district of Burlington, a collector, who shall reside at Lamberton, 

The amendment was agreed to. Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2538, by striking out of 

line 7 the words "Delaware City;" so that that portion will read: 

First. The district of Philadelphia: to comprise all the waters and shores of the 

Delaware River, and the rivers and waters connected therewith, within the State 

of Pennsylvania, andtheportof Camden, in New Jersey; in which Philadelphia 

shall be tbe port of entry, and Camden and Chester ports of delivery. 

The a~endment was agreed to. ' 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2539, so as to read a.s follows: 

SEc. 2539. There shall be in the collection districts of the State of Pennsylvania the followina- officers: 

First. In the district of Philadelphia, a collector, a naval officer, a survevor, two a11praisers, and two assistant appraisers, who shall reside at the port of Pbilaaelphia; a special examiner of drugs, meclicines, and chemicals ; an assistant collector, who 

shall reside at Camden, and shall have power to enter and clear vessels in like man- n er as the collector of Philadelphia, but shall act in conformity to such instructions 

and regulations as he shall from time to time receive from the collector of Philadelphia ; and an inspector, who shall reside at Chester, and have the powers of a deputy collector. Second. In the district of Erie, a collector, who shall reside at Erie. 

Third. In the district of Pittsburgh, a. surveyor and appraiser. 

The amendment was agreed to. · Air. POLAND. I move to amend section 2543, by striking out 

"Nanjemoy" as one of the ports of delivery in the Annapolis collection district. 

The amendment was a!!I'eed to. l\Ir. POLA.i~D. Amend section 2544 so that the first portion of it 

will read as follows : 

SEc. 2544. There shall be in the collection districts in the State of Maryland the 

following officers: 

First. In the eastern distdct, a collector, who shall reside at Crisfield. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2546 by striking out the 

words, "who shall not be required to 1·eside at Georgetown ;" so that 

it will read : 

That there shall be in the diatrict of Goorget9wn a collector. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2547 by striking out the 

words "Accomack Court-House and Chin co teague" as ports of deli very in the Cherrystone collection district of Virginia. ~ 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend the same section, in the paragraph relating to the Yorktown collection district, by ins·erting the 

words "East River" after the words "West Point" in line 31 · so that. that paragraph will read as follows: ' ' 

Fourth. The district of Yorktown: to comprise all tho waters and shores from 

the point forming the south shore of the mouth of Rappallannock River to tho point forming the south shore of the mouth of York River, and from the mouth of York 

River to West Point, and from West Point to the highest navigable waters of the 

Pam1mke.v and Mattapony Rivers; in which Yorktown shall be the port of entry, and West Point, East River, and Cumberland ports of delivery. 

The amendment wa~ agreed to. l\ir. POLAND. I move to amend the paragraph relating to the 

Portsmouth district so that it will read as follows : _ 

Fifth. The distlict of Norfolk and Portsmouth: to comprise all the waters and 

shores within the State of Virginia southward of the dishict of Yorktown, not incluaed in the districts of Peters burgh and Richmond ; in which Norfolk and Portsmouth shall be the sole port of entry, and Suffolk, Smithfield, and Hampton ports of delivery. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2548 so as to provide that 

in the district of Cherrystone the collector shall reside at Chenystone. The amendment was agreed to. · 

lli. POLfiTD. I move to strike out section 2550, and to insert in 

lien thereof the section which I send to the Clerk's desk to be read. 

The section referred to wa.s as follows : 

SEc. 2550. The master of any vessel, bound to any district of James River above 

Sewal's Point, shall, before passing the point, and immediately after his arrival 

either at the same or at Hampton Road, deposit with the collector of the port of 

Norfolk and Portsmouth a true manifest of the cargo on board such vessel. The 

collector shall, after registering the manifest, transmit the same, duly certified to have been so deposited, to the officer with whom the entries are to be made. The 

collector may, whenever he deems it necessary for the security of the revenue put an inspector of the customs on board any such vess 1, to accompany the same imtil 

her arrival at the first port of entry or deli very, in the district to which she is des- tined. Every master or commander who neglects or omits to deposita manifest as aforesaid, or refuses to receive an inspector of the customs on board, as the ca e shall require, shall be lia.ble to a penalty of SSOO, t<> be recovered with costs of suit, one half for the use of the officer 'vith whom such manifest ou~ht to have been deposited, and the other half for the use of the collector of the aistrict to which the ves el may be bound. 

The Clerk read the proposed new section, as follows : 

It shall be the duty of the master of the revenue-cutter at the mouth of the James 

River, under the orders of the Secretary of the Treasury, to board all vessels bound 

up the said river, to indorse their manifests, and to place an officer on board of each 

vessel having a cargo from a foreign port; that whenever there shall be no revenue- cutter on that station, or when the state of the weather shall be such as to r ender 

it impracticable to send an officer on board of any such ves el, the captain is hereby aut,horizecl and directed to deposit with the surveyor at Hampton a copy of the 

manifest of the cargo on board of such vesseL 

1\Ir. POLAND. The provisions contained in the section printed in 

this revision, regulating vessels going up James River, are superseded 

by a later statute, which later statute is embraced in the proposed new section. · 

Air. ELDREDGE. The section as printed in this revision contains some provisions not embraced in the proposed substitute. Air. POLAND. The early act which is copied in this revision was repealed and a new proyjsion made in regard to vessels and officers 

of the revenue at the mouth .of James River. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. The section which it is proposed to strike out 

proTides for penalties in case of non-performance of the duties pre- scribed. . :Mr. POLAND. That is repealed. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Is the whole of the section repealed Y It seems to me that the provision of the section is a very wholesome one, aml 

I can see no reason why it should be superseded by a section which 

provide no penalties in ca e the manifest is not filed as provided. ~Ir. POLAND. I think the whole of the section as printed in the 

revision has been repealed. I will examine the tatutes again, and 

if I find that we are in enor, I will bring the matter up again. The amendment was arrreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2551, in relation to the dis· 

trict of .Albemarle, by striking out the words "and Plymouth, Wind- sor, and Winton ports of delivery," at the end of the paragraph; so that it will read as follows : 

First. The di1ltrict of Albemarle: to comprise Albemarle, Currituck, and Croatan 

Sounds, and all the waters and shores adjacent t<> and fiowing into those sounn11 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1659 

south of the southern boundary line of the St.ate of Virginia, together with that 

part of Pamlico Sound north of ancl including Loggerhead Inlet, and all the waters and shores appertaining thereto; in which Edenton shall be tho port of entry. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend the paragraph in relation to the 

district. of Pamlico, by chanr,ing the name of the port of entry f-rom 

"New Berne" to" Newbern.' The former spelling is the one used 

in the earlier statutes, but of late years the latter spelling has been 

used. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move further to amend the same paragraph by 

striking out at the end these words: "and Washington a port of 

delivery." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2552, so that it will read 

m; follows: 

SEc. 2552. There shall be in the collection-districts in the Sta.te of North Carolina. 

the followin(J' officers: 

First. In the district of Albemarle, a collector, to reside at the port of entry. Second. In the district of Pa.mlico, a collector, t9 reside at the port of entry. 

Third. In the district of Beaufort, a collector, to reside at the port of entry. Fourth. In the district of Wilmington, a collector, to reside at the port of entry. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. Why does not the gentleman use in this case the same language that he used in former provisions Y Here he uses 

the language, ."reside at the port of entry;" in the former provisions 

he used the specific name of the place. 

Mr. POLAJ\T)). We follow the language of the statute. We make 

it so here because the statute says so. Mr. ELDREDGE. Is it the opinion of the gentleman from Vermont 

[Mr. PoLAND] that that alters the meaning ir1 any respect, or does he 

not know t 

Mr. POLAND. The port of entry might be changed from one place 

to another in the district. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2553 by strikin~ out the 

words "Savannah River'' and inserting the words "Back River, in 

Georgia;" so that that portion of the section will read as follows: 

Third. The district of Beaufort: to comprise all the waters and shores from Combahee River to the Back River, in .Georgia; in which Beaufort shall be the port of 

entry. · 

The amendment was agreed to. Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2554 by inserting after 

"surveyor," in line 5, the words 11 3Vho shall reside at Charleston;" so that that portion of the section will read as follows : 

Second. In the district of Charleston, a collector, a naval officer, a surveyor, who 

shall reside at Charleston, two appraisers, and a special examiner of drugs, medicines, and chemicals. · 

Also, to insert after that paragraph the following: 

Third. In the district of Beaufort, a collector. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2555 by striking out of 

the paragraph relating to the district of Saint Mary's the words "and 

Saint IDa and Jeffersonton ports of delivery." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2556 so as to provide that 

the collector in the district of Saint Mary's shall reside at Saint :Mary's. 

The amendment was agreed to. Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2559 so that it will read as follows: 

SEc. 2559. There shall be in the collection districts in the Stat~ of Florida the 

following officers: 

First. In the district of Fernandina, a collector. 

Second. In tbe district of Saint John's, a collector, who shall reside at such place as the President may designate as a port of entry, and a surveyor, who shall reside 

atPilatka. 

Third. In the district of Saint Augustine, a. collector, who shall reside at Saint 

Augustine. Fourth. In the district of Key West, a collector, who shall reside at Key West. 

Fifth. In the district of Saint Mark's, a collector, who shall reside at Cedar Keys, and a surveyor, who shall reside at Bayport. Sixth. In the district of Apalachicola, a collector, who shall reside at the port of 

entry. 

Seventh. In the district of Pensacola, a collector, who shall reside at Pensacola. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2564, in the paragraph re- lating toN ew Orleans, by inserting as a port of delivery the following: 

Pittsburgh, in Pennsylvania. 

The amendment wa.s agreed to. 

1tfr. POLAND. I move to amend section 2566, so that it will read as follows: 

EC. 2565. There shall be in the collection districts in the State of Louisiana the 

followin{l" officers: 

First. fu the district of New Orleans, a collector, a naval officer a surveyor, two appraisers, and one assist.-mt appraiser, and a special examiner of drugs, medicines, anu chemicals, who shall reside at the port of New Orleans; a deputy collector, who 

shall reside at Shreveport, in the State of Louisiana; ami for each of the other ports of delivery named in the preceding section a surveyor, who shall reside at such ·port, and shall, in addition to the customary duties devolving upon such officer, perform the duties specially prescribed by law with respect to merchandise imported 

into that partico.lar port. And for ea.cli of the ports of Cincinnati, Louisville, Evans- ~e, Saint LoUJ8, and Memphis, there shall be appointed an appraiser, who shall 

reSide at such p01t. 

Second. In the district of Teohe, a collector, who shall reside at Brashear. 

The amendment wao agreecl to. 

Mr. POLAl"\TD. I move to strike out section 2572, and to insert in 

lieu the section which I send to the Clerk's desk. 

The section referred to was as follows : 

SEc. 2572. The mast-er of anvvessel destined for the porto£ Natchez shall stop at New Orleans, and deliver to the collector for the district of New Orloans a manifest of the cargo on board such ''cs. el. If he shall fail to do so, he shall be liable to a penalty of ,.5,000. Tho collector for the clistrict of New Orleanr; shall transmit a certified copy of such manifest to the collector for the district of Natchez, and sbaU 

direct an inspector to go on boarll such vessel and procee<l with her to the port uf 

atchez and there report such ve sel to the collector for 'the district of Natchez im- mediately after his arrival; from which report the duty of the inspector sluill. CCill!e. 

The Clerk read the propo ed new section as follows: 

That any vessel proceedin" to the port of Natchez, from any port or plaoo in for- eign cotmtries, shall stop an 'a report her arrival at the port of N w Orleans; and 

before such vessel sha.U proceed on her voyage to the port of Natchez, it shall be 

the duty of the collector of the port of New Orleans to order on board such vessel a custom:house officer, who shall remain on board such vesselnntil her arrival at the 

port of Natchez; and it shall be t.he duty of such custom-house officer to take pos- ~ession of and safely keep all the papers belonging to such vessel having reference to the frei$ht or cargo· on board, which papers he shall deliver to the collector of 

the port or Natchez immediately after Iris arrival at such yort. And any such 

vessel which shall depart from the port of New Orleans Without such officer on board shall be subject to all the pains aml penalties provided for by law for a violation of the revenue laws of the United States. And the expenses of the custom- house officer who may be put on bonrd of any such vessel at New Orleans, from the 

time of his being put on board until his return to New Orleans, shall be paid by the owner or owners of such ves el. 

Mr. POLAND. This is very like the case in relation to the arrangement about vessels at the mouth of James River. The revisers have 

copied the earlier stat·ute, which has been superseded by a later one, 

which is embraced in the proposed new section. The amendment was agi·eed to. Mr. POLAND. I move, page 650, section 2575, line 13, to insert 

"Copano" after "Matagorda;" and in lines 23 and 24 to strike out 

all after the word "ent.ry ," in line 23-to strike out these words, "and 

Point Isabel a port of delivery." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

?!fr. POLAJ\T)). I move, page 651, section 2576, at the end of line 10, 

to insert," and a surveyor, who shall resi<le at Copano;" at the end of 

line 11, same section, to insert" who shall reside at Corpus Christi;" so it will read : 

SEC. 2576. There shall be, in the collection districts in the State of Texas, the following officers: 

First. In the district of Galveston, a collector who shall reside at Galveston; a deputy collector, who shall reside at Sabine, and shall exercise such powers as tho 

Secretary of the Trerumry may prescribe in pursuance of law; a surveyor, who 

shall restde at Velasco, and a surveyor who shall reside at Houston. 

Second. In the district of Saluria, a. collector, who shall reside at Indi:mola, a. surveyor who shall reside at Matagorda, and a surveyor who shall re ide at Lavaca, 

and a surveyor who shall reside at Copano. Third. In the district of Corpus Christi, a collector, who shall reside at Corpus 

Christi. 

Fourth. In the district of Brazos de Santia"'o, a collector, who shall reside at Brownsville; and a deputy collector, who shall reside at Brazos d.e Santiago, and 

shall have the power to enter and clear vessels. 

Fifth. In the district of Paso del Norte, a collector, who shall reside at El Paso. 

The amendment wa.s agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move on same page, section 257!l, to insert "and" 

before "Vallejo," and to strike out" Santa Cruz, Stockton, Benicia, 

Monterey, and Sacramento," in lines 11 and 12; so it willreacl : 

SEc. 2579. There shall be in the State of California two colle-:tion districts, as follows: 

First. The district of San Diego: to comprise all the waters and shores of the 

counties of Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, San Berna.rclino, and San Diego; in which 

San Die~o, on the Bay of San Diego, shall be the sole port of entry, and San Pedro 

and Santa Barbara ports of delivery. Second. The district of San Francisco : to comprise all the waters and shores of 

the St.ate north of the counties of Snnt.a Barbara, Los Angeles, and San Bernardino; 

in which San Francisco shall be the port of entry, and Eureka and Vallejo ports of 

delivery. 

?!fr. ELDREDGE. I should like to know by what law there are two collection districts in the State of California Y 

Mr. POLAND. I will a.nswer the gentleman from Wisconsin that 

it is by reason of a recent act of. March, 1873. Mr. ELDREDGE. Read it. 

?!fr. POLAND. It is as follows: 

That the counties of Santa Barbara, Los Angeles, San Bernardino, and San Diego, in the State of California, are hereby detached from the collector's district of San 

Francisco, and all the territory, ports, harbors, rivers and waters of said counties 

shall constitnte a collection district by the name of San Diego tlistrict, and the city of San Diego, on the bay of San Die~ , established a.s a. sole port of entry for snid 

district; and tho President of the Umted States, by and with the advice and con- sent of the Senate, shall appoint a collector to reside at said port, whose compensa- tion shall be S3,000 per annum. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move on page 652, in section .25 0, in line 3, after 

the word "collector," to insert ''who shall reside at San Djego;" after 

line 5 insert "for the ports of San Pedro and Santa Barbara;" and 

in line 7, after" surveyor," insert "who shall reside at San Francisco;" so it will read: 

SEC. 25 0. There shall be in the collection uistricts of California the following 

officer : First. In the district of San Diego, a collector, who shall reside at San Diego, and two inspectors, to be appointed by the collector, with the approval of the Secretary of the 'l'reasury, for the ports of San Pedro and Santa Barbara. 

Second. In the district of San Francisco, a collector, a naval officer, a surveyor. 

~~~tj~~:lg:r ~} ~~g;.r:Odi~:e!~~ndp~h~;ri~~~ d~si~~!oiffc~~:~o ~~ resiue at Eureka, a deputy collector wh1> shall reside at !Vallejo, an inspector at 
1660 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 19; 

Monterey, an inspector at Sa.ora.mento, an inspector at Benicia., and an inspector at 

Stockton. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move, on paO'e 652, section 2583, in line 7, to strike 

out "out at," before "Gardner;~ in line 16, ~o strike out _the_words 

"and Pacific City and Nisqually, ports of delivery;" and m lines 23 

and 24 to strike out all after the word "entry," as follows: "and 

Milwaukee a port of delivery." . . The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move, on page 653, section 2584, in lines 9 and 10, 

to strike out all after tbe word "Astoria," as follows : " a surveyor 

who shall reside at Pacific City, and a surveyor who shall reside at 

Nisqually ;" in lines 12 and 15, _strike oll:t after the word_" P~utland," 

''and tt surveyor who shall res1de at Milwaukee;" and m line 14, to 

insert after "collector," "who shall reside at Port Townshend;" so 

it will read : SEc. 2584. There shall be in the collection districts in the State of Oregon and the 

Territory of Washington the following officers: 

First. In the southern district of Oregon, a collector, who shall reside at Empire City and three deputy collectors, who may be appointed by the collector, with the 

a.ppr'oval of the Secretary of the Treasury, and of whom one shall reside at Ellensberg, one at Port Orford, and one at Gardner. . Second. In the district of Oregon, a collector, who shall reshle at Astona.. 

Third. In the district of Willamette, a collector, and an appraiser who shall 

reside at Portlancl, and a surveyor who shall reside at MiJwauke~. 

Fourth. In the district of PugetSound, a collector, who shall res1de at Townshend. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move, on page 653, section 2584, line 7, to substitut-e" Gardner" for" Gardiner." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move, on page 654, section 2589, at the end of line 

2, to insert after the word" collector,"" who shall reside at Sitka;" 

so it will read: 

SEc. 2589. There shall be in the collection district of Alaska. a collector, who 

shall reside at Sitka.. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move, on the same page, section 2691, at the end of 

line 2, after the word "collector," to insert " who shall ,reside at the 

port of entry." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move, on the same page, section 2593, at the end 

of line 5, to insert " who shall reside a.t Du Luth." 

The amendment waa agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I move, on the same page, section 2594, in line 1, to 

strike out "two" and "on-e;" so it will read: 

SEC. 2594. There shall be in the State of Wisconsin one collection district, as follows. 

In line 3 strike out " first" and insert " fonrth;" then transfer the 

whole paragraph, from line 3 to line 15, inclusive, which is aa follows: 

Fourth. The district of Superior: to comprise aJl the waters and shores of that 

part of the upper peninsula. of the State of Michio-an lying east of the principal 

meridian, all the islands in and bordering upon the Sainte Marie P.iver, and all that 

part of the State of Michigan lying west of the principal meridian and north of the 

latitudinal line dividing township number 43 from township number 44 north of the 

base-line of that State, including the territory in the State bordering Green Bay, together with all the islands, waters, and shores of Lake Superior, and the adja- cent territory to the head-watersof all the rivers and streams tributary thereto and 

within the States of Michigan and Wisconsin; in which Marquette sha.ll be the 

port of entry, and Sault Sainte Marie and Mackinaw ports of deliveryto page 655, after line 21, section 2596 ; and in the same section strike 

out "second" in the sixteenth line and insert "and;" and strike out 

"Kenosha and Manitowoc " in line 19. · I will give a word of explanation in reference to the change. There was a. collection district in what is termed the Upper Peninsula of 

Michigan. A part of tha.t collection district was in Michigan and a part of it was m Wisconsin ori~inally. But, by the present arrangement, that district is all in Michigan. The r evisers, by some mistake, as this formerly embraced pa.rt of ·wisconsin, had put it in as a district of Wisconsin. This amendment transfers it to the Michigan 

district. There is but one collection district in the State of Wisconsin. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. This leaves it just as it was. l\fr. POLAND. It leaves it just aa it is. There are four districts 

in Michigan and only one in Wisconsin. Therevisers had put two in 

Wisconsin a.nd three in Michigan. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. BARBER. I would inquire of the gP>ntleman from Wisconsin 

[Mr. ELDR.EDGE] in regard to Southport and Kenosha, which is the 

present name of the place. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. I do not know what the statute means, and I 

have not been able to get anything out of the gentleman from Vermont as to what it means. He says he does not know, and of course it is of no use for me to ask. But I know that the place now called 

Kt\nosha used to be called Southport; that is a good many years ago. 

And I should be very much surprised if the recent legislation in r eference to it had not called the place by its right name-that is, Kenosha, which is the proper name of the place now. . Mr. POLAND. The same statutes speak of Kenosha and Southport. If there is a confusion of names it is the fault of whoever made 

the statute. 

Mr. FIELD. It is notorious that what was Southport is now Kenosha-. I move to strike out "Southport" and r~tain "Kenosha." 

Mr. POLAND. I think perhaps we should not be too rash in making that change. We have spent a great deal of time in looking 

through the statutes, and we find that the same statute names both. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. I see that both are named here, and I would 

suggest that the question be referred to some gentleman on the com- mittee, who, when he haa examined it, has an opinion on the subject. 

l\fr. POLAND. Very likely it will be. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman from Michigan 

insist on his amendment T 

1\fr. POLAND. If there is any error about it we will ta.ke great 

pleasure in having it corrected. 

Mr. FIELD. I withdraw my amendment. 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendment : 

Amend section 2595, line 655, so it will rea.d as follows: 

There shall be in the collection district of Wisconsin the following officers: In 

the rlistrictofMilwaukee, a collector antl an appraiser, who shall reside at Milwau. 

kee, and a deputy collector at each of the ports of Southport, R:wine, Sheboygan, 

Green Bay, and Depere. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I ofier the following amendment: 

Amend section 2596, pa<Te 655, so that it will rea(l: 

SEC. 2596. There shall 'be in the State of Michigan four collection districts, as follows: 

First. The district of Michia-an: to compri.se aJl the waters and shores of the 

St-ate of Michigan lying west o¥ the principal meridian and south of the latitudinal 

line dividing township number 43 from township number 44 north of the baseline of. the State, except tbe territory bortlerin~ Green Bay, anu incluilin~t. the 

island of Bois Blanc; in which Grand Haven shau be the port of entry, and .uun· can City a point of delivery. Second. The district of lb:ron: to comprise all the waters ann shores of the 

Saint Clair River, and of the counties of SaintClrur, Lapeer, 'I'uscola, and Saginaw, as bounded on the 13th day of April, 1866, and of all the territory of the State of Michi~n lying north of those counties and east of the principal meridi;m; in 

which .rort Huron shall be the port of entry. 

Third. The district of Detroit: to comprise all the waters and shores of Lake 

Erie and Lake Saint Clair, and the waters com1ected therewith, within the juris- diction of the United States, from the Miami River to the mouth of the Saint Clair 

River; in which Detroit shall be the port of entry. And the President is authorized to establish within the district of Detroit two ports of deli;ery. Fourth. The district of Superior: to comprise nil the waters and shores of that 

part of the upper peninsula of the State of Michigan lying east of the piincipal 

meridian, all the islands in and bordering upon tho Sainte Marie River, and all that 

part of the State of Michigan lying west of the principal meriilian and north of 

the latitudins.lline dividing township number 43 from township number 44 north 

of the base-line of that State, including the texTitory in the State borderin$ Green 

Bay, to~ether with all the islands, waters, and sliores of Lake Superior ana the ad· 

jacent territory to the head-waters of all the rivers and treams tributary thereto 

and within the States of l\llchigan and Wisconsin; in which Marquette shall be the 

port of entry, and Sault Sainte Marie and Mackinaw ports of delivery. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POL.Al\TD. I offer the following amendment: 

Amend section 2597, line 655, so it will read as follows: 

SEC. 2597. There shall be in the collection districts of Michigan the following officers: 

First. In the district of Michigan, a collector, who shall reside at Grand Haven. 

Second. In the district of Huron, a collector, who shall reside at Port Huron. 

Third. In the district of Detroit, a collector, and an appraiser who shall reside at Detroit, and a surveyor at each of the two ports of delivery designated by the 

President. 

Fourth. In the district of Superior, a collector, who shall reside at Marquette, a deputy collector who shall reside at Sault Sainte Marie, and a deputy collector who 

shall reside at Mackinaw. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendment: 

Amend section 2600, page 656, so that, as regards the second district of Ohio, it 

will read: 

Second. The district of Sandusky: to comprise all the waters and shores of Lake 

Erie within the jurisiliction of the United States, from the western bank of the 

Vermillion River to the western cape of Sandusky Bay, in which Sandusky shall 

be the port of entry. 

The a.mendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following_ amendment : 

Amend section 2601, page 656, so that it will read: 

SEC. 2601. There shall be in the collection district-s of Ohio the following officers: 

First. In the district of Miami, a collector, who shall reside at Toledo. 

Second. In the district of Sandusky, a collector, who shall reside at Sandusky. Third. In the district of Cuyahoga, a collector, who shall reside at Cleveland ; "and an appraiser at Cleveland. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I offer the following amendment: 

On page 662, line 21, strike out "Bridgeport" and insert "Fairfield." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I ofi'er the following amendment to section 2624, on 

page 664, relating to the duties of surveyor : 

Strike out lines 23 to Z7 inclusive, as follows: 

Sixth. To examine and asct>rtain the quality, kind, and quantity of all wines imported, and t.he quantity and kind of all tea.s ancl sugars imported. Seventh. To grant certificates for imported spirits and wmes, and make returns thereof, in manner hereafter provided. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

:Mr. ELDREDGE. On page 661, section 2616, there is a provision 

thatEvery collector, naval officer, and surveyor shall, before entering on the duties 

of his office, give a bond to the United States, with one or more sufficient sureties, for the true and faithful discharge of the duties thereof according to law, under 

penalty as follows. 

The law provides that the bond shall be approved by somebody, I 

believe; but there is no provision in this section for the approval of 

the bond. The law provides t.hat it shall be approved by the Commissioner of Customs. 
1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 1661 

Mr. POLAND. Thnt provision will be found in another place. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. It will be found on the next page, in section 

2617. 

Mr. ELDREDGE. That seems to cover it, I think. 

Mr. POLAND. In reference to the amendment on page 664, in the 

provisions relating to the duties of surveyors, I wish to say that since 

those provisions were adopted a new class of officers-the apprai ers- have been created by law; and these duties have been devolved upon 

them. 

I move further to amend by striking out in section 2634 the word 

"or," and inserting the word" on" before the word "exportation." 

The amendment was agreed to. . Mr. POLAND. I move to amend by striking out the whole of sec- tion ~5. 

The section was as follows: 

SEc. 2655. There shall be allowed the following fees to t.he measurers, -weighers, 

~~~~;:dr:~~ttr:}b;dtst!:!l:aid monthly by the collector out of the revenue, 

First. 'For the measurement of every one hundred bushels of grain, forty·five cents. Second. For the measurement of every one hundred bushels of salt, accordinl! to the weight established by lawforthe payment of duties thereon, seventy·fivecents. Third. For the measurement of every one hundred bushels of coal, ninety cen t.s. Fourth. For the weighing of every one hundred and twelve pounds, and marking 

every cask, box, or package, weiuhing more than two hundred pounds each, except 

sugar, coffee, pepper, pimento, an'a indi~o, in bales, bags, mats, canisters, orseroons, with the weight, m durable characters, m the districts of Pennsylvania, New York, 

Boston and Charlestown, and Baltimore, one cent and seven·eighths ; in the district 

of Norfolk, .two cents and a quarter; and in the other districts, three cents. Fifth. For tho gauging and marking every cask, to be mar keel in durable charac· ters, with his own name and the quantity, twelve cents. Sixth. For computing the contents: of and marking cases containing distilled 

spirits and wines, four cents and a half per case. • Seventh. For actually counting the number of bottles of cider, beer, ale, perry, or porter, contained in any cask, or other packa&e or paekages, one cent and a half 

per dozen; and in proportion for any greater or Jesser quantity. These allowances shall be deemed to include a compensation for making returns of the merchandise weighed, gauged, and measured, specifying the quality aa well as quantity. 

Mr. POLAND. In reference to this amendment, I will state that 

weighers and gaugers were originally paid by certain fees as prescribed here, those fees being paid, not by the owners of the goods, 

but out of the revenue, and charged to the United States. All those 

officers are now paid stated salaries. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I also move to amend by striking out "forty" and 

inserting " fifty" in line 3 of section 2656. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I wish also to move an amendment to section 2753. 

The section was as follows : 

SEc." 2753. The assistant appraisers at the port of New Yorkshallreceivea salary of $3,000 a yea.r, expenses of collecting the revenue, and paid to them in oa.ch, to be 

paid out of the appropriation for de.fraying the expenses of collecting the revenue, and paid to them in monthly payments, and in due proportion for any period less than one month for the time they may actually serve. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend by strikinl7 out in the second and 

third lines the words " expenses of collecting the revenue and paid to 

them in each." · The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I have also an amendment to offer to section 2755. 

The section was as follows : 

SEc. 2755. Each inspector shall receive, for every day he shall be actually em. ployed in aid of the customs, a sum not exceeding four dollars ; and for every other 

person that the collector may find it necessary and expedient to employ, as occa. sional inspector, or in any other way in aid of the revenue, a like snm, while actually so employed, not exceedlng three dollars for every day so employed, to be paid by the collector out of the revenue, and charged to the United States. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend by striking out in the second and 

third lines the words " a sum not exceeding fom," and inserting the 

word" three." The old pay of the inspectors a-s fixed by law was three dollars a day. By a subsequent act, to be found in section 2760, 

the Secretary of the Trea-sury was authorized to increase the compensation not exceeding one dollar per day. .As that provision ha-s been 

incorporated in the revision, section 2755 should stand as it is in the 

old law, so that the Secretary shall not be authorized to allow a dollar a day additional to fom dollars a day. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. POLAND. I wish also to offer amendments to section 2794. 

The section was a-s follows: 

SEc. 2794. Vessels which are not vessels of the United States shall be admitted to unlade at the followin~ ports only; and no such vessel shall be admitted to make 

entry in any other district than in the one in which she shall be admitted to unlade: 

First. In the State of Maine: Portland and Falmouth, Bath, Ellsworth Wiscas· set Machias, and Penobscot. ' 

Second. In the State of New Hampshire: Portsmouth. 

Third. In the State of Massachusetts: New Be<lford, Fall River, Salem antl 

Beverly, Gloucest-er, Newburyport, Marblehead, Nantucket, Boston and Charles. 

town, and Plymouth. Fourth. In the State of Rhode Island: Newport and Providence. 

N~1J.aJ:n.the State of Connecticut: New London, Midilletown, Bridgeport, and 

Sixth. In the State of New York: New York. 

Seventh. In the State of New Jersey: P erth Amboy and Burlington. Eighth. In the State of Pennsylvania: Philadelphia. Ninth.. In the State of Delaware: Wilmington, New Castle, and Port Penn. 

Tenth. In the State of Maryland: Baltimore, Annapolis, Town Creek Notting. ham, Digges's Landing, ffnow Hill, and Carrolsburgh. ' 

Eleventh. In the District of Columbia: Georgetown. Twelfth. In the State of Virginia: Alexandria, Wicomico, Dumfries, Tappa. 

bannock, Port Royal, Fredericksbur~h, Urbana, Yorktown, West Point, Hampton.· Richmond, Petersburgh, and NorfolK and Port-smouth. · · Thirteenth. In the State of North Carolina: Wilmington, New Berne, Beaufort, 

Edenton, and Plymouth. Fourteenth. In the State of South Carolina: Charlest.<>n, Georgetown, and Beau- fort. 

Fifteenth. In the State of Georgia : Savannah, Sunbury, Brunswick, Frederica, 

and Saint Mary's. Sixteenth. ill the State of Louisiana: New Orleans. 

Mr. POLAND. I move to amend by striking out in the second line 

of the section the words "at the following ports only," and inserting 

"only at ports of entry established by law." 

The am~ndment was agreed to. 

:Mr. POLAND. I move further to amend by striking out the whole 

of this section after the :first paragraph. 

The amendn!ent was agreed to. 

l\fr. POLAND. I move to amend by striking out section 2795. 

The section was as follows : 

SEc. 2795. Vessels arriving from the Cape of Good Hope, or from any place 

beyond the same, shall be adinitted to make entry at the following ports only: First. In the State of Maine : Portland aml Falmouth, Bath, Castine, Bangor, K ennebunk, Saco, and the port of entry designate!! for the district of Pas ama. quoddy. 

Second. In the State of New Hampshire: Portsmouth. 

Third. In the State of Ma sachusetts Boston and Charlestown, New Bedford, 

Plymouth,"Naatucket, Eugartown, Fall River, Newburyport, Salem and . .Beverly, Marblehead, and Gloucester. Fourth. In the State of Rhode bland: Newport, Bristol and Warren, and Providence. 

Fifth. In the State of Connecticut: New London and New Haven. 

Sixth. In the State of New York: New York. 

Seventh. In the State of New Jerser: Perth Amboy. Eighth. In the State of Pennsylvama.: Philadelphia. Ninth. In the State of Delaware: Wilmington. 

Tenth. In the State of Maryland; Baltimore and Annapolis. 

Eleventh. In the District of Columbia: Geor~;etown. 

Twelfth. In the Sta.te of Virginia: .Alexa"idria., and Norfolk and Portsmouth. 

Thirteenth. In the State of North Carol.ina: Wilmington, New Berne, and Eden- ton. 

Fourteenth. In the State of South Carolina: Charleston, Georgetown, and Beaufort. 

Fifteenth. In the State of Georgia.: Savanna.b.. 

Sixteenth. In the State of Florida: Pensacola and Key West. 

Seventeenth. In the State of Louisiana: New Orleans. 

Mr. POL.A...."f\fD. The original statute from which this is copied 

provided that foreign vessels should land only at particular ports; but 

it embraced the whole list of ports of entry, which ha-s been very much 

enlarged since. This second section provided that "vessels arrivirig 

from the Cape of Good Hope, or from any .place beyond the same, 

shall be admitted t.o make entry at the following ports only," naming a very restricted number. These provisions have been changed by 

treaty, so far a concerns all the nations with which we have treaties ; and if they were to be kept in force now, no foreign vessel could 

land on the Pacific coast at any port; because at the time the original act wa pa sed we had no port on that coast. The committee regard the provisions of these two sections, except what we have left 

of the :first section, as entirely superseded by later legislation. 

The amenclment was agreed to. Mr. POLAND. With all the diligence I have been able to use, this 

is as far a-s I am prepared to go with amendments on behalf of the 

committee this evening. I now yield to my colleague on the com- mittee, the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. E. U. HoAn. J 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. I am happy to state to the House that upon all 

that part of the revision assigned to my special charge, I am able to 

report to-night with the exception of a single section, whlch, not yet 

having been able to make any sense of or to :find where it came from, 

I have concluded to postpone to a future occasion. 

The :first amendment which I offer is to section 443, epecifying the 

subordinate officers, clerks, employes of the Department of the Interior, and their respective salaries. I move to amend by inserting 

after line 27 of the section these words, "public documents, one superintendent at a salary of "'2,500 a year." 

The amendment was agreed to. 

l\fr. E. R. HOAR. The next amendment which I wish to offer is to 

section 444. 

The section was as follows : 

SEc. 444. The Secretary of the Interior is charged with the supervision of public business relating to the following subjects: First. The census, when directed by law. 

Second. The public lauds, including mines. 

Third. Public buililings which are under the charge of the Chief of Engineers. Fourth. The Indians. Fifth. P ensions and bounty lands. 

Sixth. Patents for inventions. . Seventh. The custody and distribution of publications. Eighth. Education. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. I move to amend by inserting at the end of the 

section the following: : 

Ninth. Government Hospital for the Insane. 

Tenth. Columbia. Hospital for the Deaf and Dumb. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

:Mr. E. R. HOAR. I also move to amend by adding at the end of 

section 505 the following : 

Congressional j ournals and public documents authorized to be distributed to institutions on the esi~a.tion of members of Congress, shall be sent to such libraries 

and institutions oruy as shall signify a willingness to pay the cost of their trans- portation. 

The amendment was agreed to. 
. 1662 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. FEBRUARY 20, 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. I wish to move an amendment to section 4194. 

The section was as follows: 

SEc. 4194. Vessels registered pursuant t~ law, and no others, except such as shall 

be duly qualified · accoriling to law, for carrying on the coasting trade and fisheries, or one of them, shall be deemecl vessels of the Uniteu States, and entitled to the 

b enefits and privileges appertaining to such vessels; but they shall not enjoy the same longer than tliey shall continue to be wholly owned by citizens and to be 

commanded by a citizen of the United States. 

Mr. E-. R. HOAR. I move to amend by inserting at the end of the 

section the following : . 

And officers of vessels of the United States shall in all cases be citizens of the 

United States. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. The next amendment is to strike out "presumptive," and insert "prirn.a fame," in section 4330; so that the section 

will ),'ead as follows : · 

SEc. 4330. The collector of the customs, at any port at which any vessel so em- ployed shall arrive, or from which any such vessel shall be about to depart, shall 

appoint and direct one or more of the inspectors of the cnstoms for such port to examine such vessel, and report in writing to him whether the requirements of lnw 

1mve been complied with in respect to such vessel; and if such report shall state such compliance, and shall be approved by such collector, it shall be deemed prima 

facie evidence thereof. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. I have also an amendment to section 4285, an amendment of considerable length, and which I do not know that I 

need explain, though there is a very curious explanation. 

The section was as follows : 

SEC. 4285. Upon vessels which shall be entered at any custom-house in the United 

States, from any foreign port or place, there shall be paid the respective duties followinu : On ve sels of the United States, the officers of which are citizens of the 

Unite'a States, thirty cents a ton: on vessels of the United States, the officers of 

which are not citizens of the United States, eighty cents a ton; on vessels built 

within the United States, but belonging wholly or in part to subJects of foreign powers, sixty cents p er ton; on forei~ vessels entered in the Umted States from any forei!!Il port to and with which vessels of the United States are not ordinarily permitted' t.o enter and trade, $2.80 per ton ; on other vessels, eighty cents per ton : Provided, That nothing in this section shall impair any rights or privileges which 

have been or may be :w.q_nired by any foreign nation, under the laws and treaties of 

the United States, relative to the duty of tonnage on vessels. 

Mr. E. R. HOAR. I move the following amendments: 

In line 4 strike out the words "the officers of which are citizens of the United 

States;" strike out from the word "on," in line 5, to the word "ton," inclusive, in line 

6; in lines 11 and 12 strike out "eighty" and insert ''thirty;" and after the word " ton," in line 12, insert the following : Provided, That the President of the United States shall be satiafied that the discriminating or countervailing duties of any foreign nation to which such vessels lon~r, _so 'far as they operate to the disadvantage of the United States, have been 

abolished; otherwise 80 cents per ton and. 

lli3 a curious specimen of the way in which aets of Congress are sometimes expres ed, it may, perhaps, be interesting to some gentle- men to know the length of time that it took the committee to find 

out what the duty should be under this section. The commissioners 

to revise the laws gave one rate of duty; the revisiqn as here reported 

gave another and totally different one; and it was impossible to discover, without a very long comparison of statutes, how they came to 

differ or whence this one was derived. At length we found the differ- ence arose from a very curious use of language in one of the statutes, 

to which the acute lawyer who revised the work gave one construction, and to which the commissioners gave another. 

The statute provided certain discriminating duties in favor of one class of vessels should be repealed, while the practice of the Government was discrimination against the other should be repealed and 

the whole duties should be stricken out. It has been uniformly the 

construction since the time the statute was passed. It was capable 

of both constructions, and the revising lawyer took the other. The 

committee found out at last what it meant. I believe they have got 

it now conformably to the practice as well as to what we thought was the true meaning of the statute. 

The motion was agreed to. 

And then, on motion of Mr. POLAND (at five minutes to nine 

o'clock, p.m.,) the House adjourned. 

PETmONS, ETC. 

The fQllowing memorials, petitions, and other papers were presented 

at the Clerk's desk under the rule, and referred as stated: 

By Mr. ARCHER: The petition of Caroline Sturtz, for a pension, 

to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By Mr. BASS : The petition of Anna 1\f. Kopf, for a pension, to the 

Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By 1\Ir. BLA.INE: The petition of Charles C. Gould, of Augusta, 

:Maine, to be reimbursed for moneys advanced and food and clothing 

furnished Union prisoners in rebel prisons, to the Committee on vVar 

Claims. 

By Mr. CHIPl\L~N: The petition of Thomas Galloway, of Baltimore, Maryland, for a pension, to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

Also, the memorial of theW omen's Christian Association of th~ District of Columbia, presenting their fourth annual report, and asking an appropriation from Congress of 25,000, to the Committee on Appro- priations. 

By 1\lr. COBB, of North Carolina: The petition of citizens of Pitt 

and Greene Counties, North Carolina~ for the establishment of a postroute between Snow Hill and Greenville, North Carolina, via Willow 

Green and Ballard's Store, to the Committee on the Pest-Office and PostRoads. 

Also, the petition of citizens of Tyrrell· and Wa hington Counties, 

North Carolina, for an appropriation for the improvement of the Scuppernong River, to the Committee on Commerce. 

By 1\lr. COX: The memorial of William Radde, of New York, relative to the return to specie payments and the redemption of legaltender and national-bank notes in coin, to the Committee on Banking and Currency. . Also, the memorial of the Washington Branch of the Amalgamated . Society of Carpenters and Joiners, relative to alleged infractions 

of the eight-hour law, to the Committee on Public Buildings and 

Grounds. · By Mr. FARWELL: The petition of merchants of Chicago, Dlinois, deprecating the issue of any more legal-tender notes, and asking 

the withdrawal as soon as possible of those already is ued out of the 

so-called reserve, to the Committee on Banking and Currency. 

By 1\fr. FIELD: The petition of Oliver Lumphrey, late first lieutenant :First New York Lincoln Cavalry, that his muste:t date from 

the reception of his commission and that he receive pay from that 

date, to the Committee on l\.lilitary Affairs. 

By Mr. GARFIELD: The petition of citizens of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania., for an appropriation of $SO,OOO for the improvement of Ashtabula Harbor, in the State of Ohio, to the Committee on Commerce. 

By Mr. HOOPER: The remonstrance of the selectmen and other 

citizens of Swampscott, Massachusetts, against discontinuing the 

custom-house at Marblehead, to the Committee on Ways and Means. 

By 1\fr. HUBBELL: The petition of citizens of Charlevoix County, 

Michigan, for appropriation for the improvement of Pine River, to t.he 

Committee on Commerce. 

By Mr. KELLEY: The petition of bankers, merchant-s, and others, • of Philadelphia, deprecating an increase of currency and praying for a speedy return to specie payments, to the Committee on Banking 

and Currency. 

By 1\fr. LEWIS: Papers relating to the claim of Robert and Isaac 

Quinn, for destruction of property during the late war, to the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. LOFLAND: The petition of citizens of Sussex County, 

Delaware, for an appropriation to remove obstructions in Nanticoke 

River, tothe Committee on Commerce. 

By Mr. LOWJ\"'DES: The petition of William F. Keirle, of Bc1ltitimore, Mary land, for the refunding of a fine paid by him to the 

United States, to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By 1\Ir. NESMITH: The petition of George A. Miller, of Eugene 

City, Oregon, for relief, to the Committee on Military Affairs. 

By 1\fr. ROSS: The petition of citizens of Lawrenceville, 'J'ioga 

County, Pennsylvania, for the repeal of the second section of the act 

of June 6, 1872, which made a reduction of 10 per cent. in certain 

duties, to the Committee on Ways and Means. 

By 1\fr. SHELDON : The petition of Absalom Baird, for the passa.ge 

of an act to authorize the President to nominate and promote Mm to 

be lieutenant-colonel and assistant inspector-~eneral, to dat~ from 

June 13, 1867, to the Committee on l\filitary Affairs. 

By Mr. S~ITTH, of Virginia: The petition of Peter K. Morgan, for 

land bounty and a pension for services in the war of 1812, to the Committee on Revolutionary Pensions and War of 1812. 

By Mr. SPRAGUE : The petition of R. R. Hudson, for the purchase 

of the Louisville and Portland Canal by the Goverument, to the Committee on Commerce. 

Also, the petition of Henry Raymond and Abraham Dally, in behalf of the veterans of the war ol 1812, for certain modifications of 

the pension laws, to the Committee on Revolutionary Pensions and 

War of 1812. 

By Mr. WILLARD, of Vermont: The petition of Cordelia Wilkins, 

for a pension, to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By 1\Ir. --: The petition of members of the North Alabama Bar 

for the extension of the jurisdiction of tha circuit court of the 

United States for the fifth circuit over the northern district of Alabama, and for holding terms of the court at Huntsville, Montgomery, 

and Mobile, to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

IN SENATE. 

FRIDAY, February 20, 1874. 

Prayer by Rev. E. D. OWEN, of Washington. 

The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

HOUSE BILLS REFERRED. 

The bill (H. R. No. 447) extending the time for the completion of 

the Green Bay and Sturgeon Bay and Lake Mich1gan Ship-Canal, in 

the State of Michigan, was read twice by its title and refe1Ted to the 

Committee on Public Lamls. 

The bill (H. R.No. 8 6) to provide for the election of Congressmen 

at large for the State of Alabama was read twice by its title and 

referred to the Committee on Privileges and E~ctions. 

The bill (H. R. No. 2080) to provide for deducting any debt due the 

United States from auy judgment recovered against the United States