3369

OIC-302 (Re\ 5-19-94)

,

- I -

OFFICE OFTHJZ INDEPENDENTCOUMEL

Date of uanscription l/26/98

On below date, investigators interviewed ASHLEY L.

RAINES. Also present at the Law Office of Shea and Gardner, 1800

Massachusetts Avenue, N-W., Washington, D.C. 20036, were RAINES'

attorneys, WENDY WHITE and HOWARD RUBIN. RAINES provided the

following:

RAINES currently resides at _I_,

hone number \m

Her date of birth is - social security

number U-b; place of birth, Little Rock, Arkansas. She

is currently employed at the White House as the Director of

Office of Policy Development Operations and Special Liaison to

Management and Administration, Old Executive Office Building

#145, office phone j_. RAINES graduated from

Southern Methodist University in September, 1993.

RAINES advised that she met MONICA LEWINSKY in

November, 1995. They have become close friends. During the

Summer of 1996, LEWINSKY told RAINES that she had been engaged in

a sexual relationship with the President. LEWINSKY advised

RAINES that the President would call her at the White House

office or home and ask her to come and see him. LEWINSKY would

meet the President in the Oval Office. They would go into the

study off the Oval Office, and at times would kiss and engage in

reciprocal oral sex.

At the time LEWINSKY first spoke with RAINES about this

(Summer, 19961, the relationship with the President had.stopped,

and LEWINSKY had changed jobs and worked at t8e Pentagon.

LEWINSKY was unhappy and frustrated that she hadn't heard from

the President in over one month.

LEWINSKY later told RAINES that the President had

called LEWINSKY, and for a period of time telephone calls were

the extent of their relationship. However, in early 1997,

LEWINSKY again went to see the President at the Oval Office.

LEWINSKY stated from early 1997 through about late December 1997,

her relationship with the President resumed. This included, on

occasion, reciprocal oral sex. LEWINSKY told RAINES that the

President's secretary, BETTY CURRIE, would "clear" her through,

and that her visits in 1997 were infrequent.

Invcstigatlon on l/25/98 at Washington, D.C. File Y 29D-LR-35063

Date dktatcd l/26/98
3370

OIC-302~1 (Rev. 8-19-94)

29D-LR-35063

Continuation of OIC-302 of Ashley L. Raines .On l-/25/98 . page 2

RAINES advised that LEWINSKY showed her gifts that came

from the President. These included:

eight inches long,

a hat pin approximately

an antique looking brooch the size of a half

dollar, special edition copy of "Leaves of Grass" by WALT

WHITMAN, items from Martha's Vineyard with "Black Dog" logo,

including a ball cap, and a short, baggy summer dress, and an

autographed photo of the two of them wishing LEWINSKY "Happy

Birthday."

neckties,

RAINES believed that LEWINSKY had given him two

described as nice dress ties-that RAINES believed she

saw the President wear on one occasion. LBWINSKY also told

RAINES that LEWINSKY gave him a couple of books.

RAINES advised that LEWINSKY told her she had been

subpoenaed for a deposition by PAULA JONES' attorneys. LEWINSKY

was concerned with what to say. LEWINSKY felt she had done

nothing illegal, but if she denied having had sex with the

President, would this be perjury. LEWINSKY advised RAINES that

she had contacted VERNON JORDAN and JORDAN had referred a lawyer

to LEWINSKY. RAINES was never told of or shown the affidavit

LEWINSKY and her attorney provided to JONES‘ attorneys. At that

time, LEWINSKY told RAINES she had not spoken to the President

about the affidavit.

Sometime around the middle of 1997, LEWINSKY told

RAINES that she wanted to leave D.C. LEWINSKY asked the

President for help. VERNON JORDAN put her in contact with Revlon

and Bersa &. Marcella (phonetic) in New York as well as a couple

of other firms.

this job hunt.

RAINES didn't know how JORDAN got involved in

P

Rained advised that her last contact with LEWINSKY was

a phone call on Tuesday, January 20, 1998. LEWINSKY asked RAINES

to speak to her lawyer BILL GINSBERG. GINSBERG asked RAINES to

refer all of her calls concerning LEWINSKY to his law firm.

GINSBERG also stated "be careful." RAINES didn't understand what

GINSBERG was referring to.

TRIPP.

RAINES was aware of LEWINSKY's friendship with LINDA

LEWINSKY told RAINES she had confided in TRIPP concerning

her relationship with the President. RAINES also believed

LEWINSKY had also shared that information with LEWINSKY's mother

and an aunt.
OK-302a (Rev. 8-19-94)

3371

29D-LR-35063

Continuation of OIC-302 of Ashley L. Raines .On l/25/98 . Page 3

RAINES stated that LEWINSKY had been a very loyal and

supportive friend. RAINES found LEWINSKY to be truthful and had

no reason not to believe LEWINSKY concerning LEWINSKY's

relationship with the President.
3372
3373

Ashley Raines, l/29/98

Grand Jury

Page 2 to Page 117

CONDENSED TRANSCRIPT AND CONCORDANCE

PREPARED BY:

OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Suite 490-North

Washington, DC 20004

Phone: 202-514-8688

FAX: 202-5 14-8802
3374

BSA Ashley Raines. K!gigB XMAX(1)

Page 2

111 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

f!_’ “_“____________X

13: IN RE:

14GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS :

is;’

Page 3

t11

ASHLEY RAINES

I:iwas caked as a witness end having been first duty Sworn b

,a 1 the Foreperson of the Grand Jury, was examined and test if-yred

tslas follows:

161 EXAMINATION

I71 BY MR. WlSENBERG:

Q

l~lrecord olease.

Good morning. would you state your name for the

I251

Page 4

t I Ifederal law other than a Class B or Class C misdemeanor or

12 1 infraction in dealing with witnesses, potential wr&sse s, I 3 I attomevs or others conceminq the avil case Jones v.

i 4 j Clinton?

151 Dii ou understand what I just read?

[61 x Sure. Yes. -

(71 Q

[alto you?

And the authority of the Grand Jury as Ive read it ’

[91 A Yes.

I:!;

Cl Im now going to be reading to you, discussing with ’

&

ou briefly what are known as rights and responsibiliiis of

[I 2 1 rand Jury witnesses. Occasionall

113 1 understand and that will require thar

I11 ask you if you

114 ]no so that the court re

you say either yes or

[ I 5 1 nod or uh-ph oSru$uR

orter can pick it up rather than a

I161

Q Okay. You have every - you have a privilege

i :i ; against self-incrimination which means you may refuse to

t191answer an

,20 1 would tendy.question if a truthful answer to that questionto mcnmmate you. Do you understand that?

i2li A Yes. . -

(221 Q Anything you sa

t23lGrand Jury or in a subsequent L

may be used against you by the

~24 lunderstand that?

gal proceeding. Do you

I251 A Yes.

OlCStarr

Page 5

0 If you have retained counsel. you cannot have the

counsel in the Grand Ju

! will permit you a reasona le opportunity to step outside the %

room wrth you. but the Grand Jurors

: Grand Jury room to consult with your counsel if you so

E -desrre. Do you understand that?

A- Yes.

Q And I understand you are represented by counsel

I here today;rs that correct?

2‘ A Yes.

_- Q And who would that be?

A Wendv White. .--

[IT: Q And do you know what firm she is with?

il:: A Shea and Gardner.

i iij Grand Jurors themselves,

Page 6

:: Icant’ go blabbin about it. Do you understand?

-1‘

.-, A #es.

i3; Q There are other exceptions. For instance, if -.

; 4 : Im’ not at all saying this will happen, but if there was ever

r5:atriallaterofany~and~puappearedasawrtness.and

: 6 1 you sard something a that nal that was drfferent than what

ou said at the Grand Jury, that would be an example where

wo;e”,” ‘ breached. Do you understand that?

Q

li f i Counsel that are peculiar to the Office of lnde

There are certain things that office of Independent

ndent

r:IiCounsel that its ’ - at I+one,instance will a ow. R” wrth

;;f;z=yper court order, m certain occasrons the rule of

[ ~5 jexamp

would

%

be - could be breached. That would be another

I:61

py;~;nderstand that?

0 The -but other than these exceptions, if is a

i : : i rneral rule we are att bound by that oath of secrecy.

I I 91 owever. you are not_ A witness who appears before the Grand

;;;;J~ IS not bound by an oath of secrecy. Do you understand

7.3

i22j A Yes.

If :inot.

Q You can go talk about what transpires here today oc

Thars a matter for you and your attorney to tak

rzs~about. Do you understand?

3

Page 7

[II A Yes.

Q You can7 tie to us. You cant ’ i

13’ i nutshell not -intentionalty not telling the tnrth a&a

rjury is. in a

I 4 I material matter an important manner in front of the Grand

15 1 Jury. Do you unPerstand that?

I61 A Yes.

Q If there k anything I ask or Ms. Wirth asks that

ieiyou ’ dont understand by all means ask us to ’ re-ask that

tslquestion. Do you understand?

I101 A Okay. Yes.

Q

I :i i to consult with

Again, tf there is anything anytime that ou need

our attorney, you are free to do that. x

(13)

r

ou are uncom 1ortabk and you want to take a brief break,

114 I hats fine too. ’

II51 A Okay.

Q Lets sea. The ’ - there arts certain &ago&s of

i i7” i witnesses who come before the Grand Jury, and let ma give you

t 1 s I the definition of a target fmm the Department of Justica

t 191 manual. The target ts defined as a person to whom the

t201 rosecutor or the Grand Jury has substantial evidence linking

comm&siin of a crime and who, in the

122 : jud ement of the prosecutor is a putative defendant.

t2ll~imgorhertothe

1231un erstan~tha\~finibon?

Do you

1241

I251 0 You are not a target. A subject is defined as a .

Page 2 to Page 7
BY, Ashley Raines, 1129198

-~~___ Xuu1(2)

Page 8 Page 11

(1 lperson whose conduct is wlthm the scope of the Grand Jurys’ ;: ~Admimstrat~on.

12 1 Investigation. Do you understand that? [:: Q

13: $ $z;!dd[ou repeat that again. A

And what is your title there7

subject IS defined as “a person whose

Its a long title. It ’ s Director of ’ office of

1: i conduct IS wlthin the scope of the Grand Jurys’

! ii Policy Development Operations -

I_.

f 6 j Investigation.”

.3. i6

Q _Okaanyd _And -

A

ji] A Okay .

i-1

iJ)

Q Im sorr ’ y

:9’ Q Do YOU understand that? A

r s: Administration.- and Special Liaison to Management and

i9j A Yes:

0 As you can tell. that is a very broad definition.

1 :yi Its not like you think of a subject on a police t.v. show ’

rl2lnecessarily. Subject is basically anyone whose got

[13linformation relevant to the Grand Jury. Do you understand

[14lthat? I

I151 A Yes.

0 So you are - in the technical Department of

I :7”; Justice definition, you are a subject. Do you understand

[lslthat?

Page 9

[ 1 Iconcern. And a witness just being sqmebgy coming in no

[zlsuspicion on them at all,, just comln in to grve testrmopy.

(3100 you understand that mformal drs inctlon between wrtness.

.I.

;;;subject an:arg$;. ‘

Q Wrthin that distinction within that system you are

I76ia witness. Do ou understand that?

[El A {es.

Q Now we cannot romise an body, witness or subject

[{zithat they will never be a target. g d

A Yes. We dont know an ’ hrng about you and we ‘ -

I :: i you never know how a investigation wi develo So were’

o yoy?em;nd that,?

[13lnot in a position to tell anyone who appears be ore us as a [ 14 Igeneral matter that you will never be target. Do you

[ I 5 1 understand that?

I161 A Yes.

Q

I:i;subpoena;

Okay. Finally, you were here today pursuant to a

is that correct?

I191 A Yes.

I201 Q

i21jsubpoena?

Have you brought any documents pursuant to that _ -

I221 A

Q

M lawyer turned them over I believe on Tuesday.

Okay. So all the documents pursuant to the

i::&ubpoena have been turned oyer, correct?

1251 A Except for documents on my work computer at The

Page 10

f 11 White House in which those are. I guess, going through that

rzlprocess.

I31 0 Okay. Thats ’ till ongoing?

I41 A Yes..

Q

!ztifvou know?

I believe there is some kind of redaction going on

i7j - A Im not sure. ’

Q Oka Well ma

/:!your lawyer about t

’

well have a conversation with ’

at. Allri’ h _ I think weve got those ’

[I o 1 documents that were hande8mcand later on well be going ’

L 111 through them.

i121 - A Okay .

[I31 0 Is there anything about your rights and

nsibilities as Ive read them to you that you don ’ t’

I::;Eerstand? ’ s”

I161 A I dont think so. ’

I171 Q

~~lcolleague.

All right. then. 1U’ turn you over to my

Ms. W&h.

I191 BY MS. WlRTH:

1201 Q Ms. Raines. can you tell us how old you are?

I211

r22i .--, A0 TwenX-six. And w ere were YOU born?

1231

~241

I251

A Atlanta, Georgia.-

Q resent occu ation?

A

And what is your

I work in The WhR’ e Office ofhpanagement and

/

OlCStarr

j-.

[lOI Q

A

And essentially what are your duties In that job?

I manage a budget for the office of Policy i :: 1 Development, which is made up of the Domestic Policy Council

1131 and the National Economic Council. (14 loperations and also work on s

I manage their daily

I151

(161

COURT REPORTE~Ca?~~)%%e ’ up, please.

THE WITNESS:

MR. WISENBERG:

Oh, Im not oud enough? ’

i :i; little bit louder.

Ive been asked if you can talk a ’

Cl91 THE WITNESS:

[201 BY MS. WIRTH:

Okay. Sony. Should I repeat that?

[211 Q Yeah. Go ahead.

A I manage a budget for the Office of Policy

1:: 1 Development which is comprised of the Domestic Policy Council

[24 land the National Economic Council. And I also work on

I 2 5 1 speclal projects as they come up in my office, the office of

Page 12

ou held your current job?

The whrte House for four

3375

i 9 j months ago.

I101 Q

r111 A

ii;jAdministration. _ Q

i::ititle changed?

And did your job responsibilities change when your

A Theyve ’ - Ive always had kind of the same ’

[ :z: responsibilities. Things have been added and taken away as

~17~supervisors and managers come in.

i:i!for the four and some odd years that youve been at

Q Soyouvedoneessentiallythesame~&~rk

[2olHouse?

A

[::;example the fund &ana er the bu

r231gel until kovemberof9!?’ But since

Well no. I mean theggqe.titint

Q

i::lwas your job?

And when you first came to The Whi@ House, what

+

Page 13

A WbenIfintcameIwasanintemfmmMayof93

~:&rough the time I was hired in September of 93. ‘

I31 Q

A I was hind in the Office of Administrabon under

And after ou were an intern what dii you do?

!:&hat was called the Customer Service Bureau. And I was

161 someone who looked after the needs of the staff of the

17 1 complex and was sOmeone that the staff could come to if they

[e] had questions. How do I get m trash

rglwho do I call to et this service? That &

idted up? How do I -

Cl

nd of thing.

I:iiThe White

&at building or buildings have yqu worked in in

House?

t121 A The Old Executive Office Building.

1131 Q Steadilv since 1993?

[ 16]HOUse?

il4j

I151

A Uh-huh: Yes .

Q And how did you come to be an intern at The White

Page8toPagej3 ~~_--__-~
BSA XMAX(3)

---________

Page 17

Q

ii 1 about Monicas work experience at The ’

Can you tell the Grand Juf&&~;~et~;~~ know

[ 3 1 Intern7 Youve already mentioned you ’ know who she worked f 4 1 for. But how Ion

[ sldid she do? An

was she an intern? What types of things

A

Fhlng that you know about that expenence.

/t ian intern. I think she started In the summer of 95. And ‘

I really dont know that much about her ’ working as

[ 8 1 then she had graduated from college so she was looking for a

[ sljob and Tracey was tryin to hel

1101 Q

her, you know, find a lob.

Ill1 A I think within. Ma be outside too, Im not ’ sure.

[ :: i House?

Q

Outside l%e Whip; House?

And did she even ually get a job at The White

I141 A

Q

Yes, she did.

(151 And what job was that?

[I61 A She was in Legislative Affairs - the office of

[ I 7 1 Legislative Affairs for The Whde House.

Q And do you know whether that was with Traceys’

~:~~assistanc.e that she got that job?

I201 A

0

Probably with a recommendation I assume.

And which area did she work in when she was workin

i::;for the Office of Legislative Affairs? We can call it OLA.

I231 A Correspondence. _

I241 _

[251 2 %%a~$$%%hite House.

Page 44

;;: Q Had

: 7 1 before the[resldenty

ou ever met the President or Mrs. Clinton

was elected In 1992?

:3i Yes, only two - a couple of times that I remember

1 4 !when he was Governor.

Q Now. can you just tell the Grand Jury for the

: 2 j record where the Old Executive Office Buildtng ts In relation

: -! to The White House and whether the re‘ connected.

2‘ ’ A The Old Executive 0f+ICC? Bullding is on the corner

i;iof 17th Street and Pennsylvania. And its not actually ’

i :s!connected to The White House, it sits right next door. Its’

f : ; i separated by what we call West Execubve Avenue. So theres’

[ 12 !a street that runs in between The White House and the Old

[ : 3 1 Executive Office Buiklin

P

and its all within the gates of ’

[ 11 IThe White House camp ex.

[>5j Q And what floor do you work on?

1161 A The first floor.

Q Okay. Now, did there come a time that you met

! :i i Monica Lewinsk ?

[I91 A &s.

,701 Q The first time. And can vou tell the Grand JUIV

i 5; i when that was?

A I believe that it was in November of 95. We had a ‘

/::ibirthday party for her supervisor.

~241 Q

I251 A

And who was her surrvisqr?

Her name IS Tracey obow~ck. And Tracey used to

[ 1 Iactually work in our office. and we still had, you know, a

Page 15

12 1 relationshi

131 6

with her so we had a pa

i4i

At the Old Executive %%kIing?

A Uh-huh. Yes.

Q And what was Monicas role and job at that time in ’

I z i The White House?

A I think she was still her intern. but Im not ’

!i 1 positive that she was an intern at that point.

;9, .-, Q

( I o 1 Monicas? ’ ~-

And do vou know what her duties were as an intern.

I

A Just in knowing what Tracey did, Tracey as the

iiii Director of the Chief of Staffs correspondence and would

~131 respond to any ietters that the Chief of Staff received, and

1 I I ! Monica assisted her in that

Q

capa

Okay. And do you now where Monica physically c?.

j:z;worked. where her work station was?

A I never saw her there but Trace

iiii workstation was on the ground floor bf the Old

s Intern

l&cutive

rlglOffice Building.

l201.. _ Q Do you know whether she also worked at The White

[ 2 I 1 House?

(221 A What do ou - The White House building?

I231 Q In The v\Xlite House building, yeah.

1241

[251

Aa E.n she was an intern?

Page 16

No, I dont think ’ so..

And Trace! Bobow~cks’ oftice was atso in Ok!

IS1 MR. WtSENBERG: Can I butt in?

161 MS. WlRTH: Sure.

I71 BY MR. WlSENBERG:

Q

; ii would you?

You wouldnt happen to know how to spell Bobowick. ’

[lOI A Oh, absolutely.

1111 0 Could YOU spell it for me?

iizi A B-o-b&w-i-&.

I131 Q Thanks.

[141 A She was not Bobowick at the time. She was married.

1151 BY MS. WtRTH:

[I61 Q What was her name then?

I171 A It was Beckett at the time.

Q Now you said that you met Monica at this party.

f :“,i Dii vou eventuallv establish a friendship with her?

iioi - A Yei. Idid.

I211 Q And how quick1 did that take lace?

A Isawheratas~ffholidaypa&inTheWhite

i:SiHouse that they usually have every year, and we would do

[24 lthings from time to time, go to dinner, go to a movie, those

[ 2 5 1 types of things.

Ill

I21

[31

141

Page 18

Q And who was her supervisor there?

A I think I remember her name was Jocelyn Jolley.

AQ ltJ;O;yh~yoyt hefl

I;;work?

0 Now, on what floor of the East Wing did Monica

I71 A The first floor.

Q

i i;stopped workin

Oka

at

A ?es.

+

Now did there come a time when Monica

he Wtiite House, when she left?

1101

Ill1 Q Do you know when that was?

[I21 A

Q

Spnng of 96. I don ‘ t remember the exact month. ’

Oka

i::;you remember roug

.

Y,

Let me just take

r

ou back for a second. Do

A

ly when she went o OLA?

~:~~December.

Office of Legislative Affairs? I think it was

[I71 Q Of?

1181 A

Q

Of95’ Im’ not positiie.

1191 Okay. And then she left in the spring of 967 ‘

[201 A Yes.

Q

i::ihad been friends

So b the time Monica had left The White House, you

wi& her for lesJ than a year?

1231 A Oh,yes.

Q

I::lher at that

And how would you describe your relationship with

point?

Page 19

111 A

i Z i point?

Q

At that point we were friends.

Would you consider her a close friend at that

I~l [41was ’ at Th;m;;;;ucy No. 1 don? mink.=. Q !-low o en dK1 you see her dunng the time that she

A It was a long time ago. I would say maybe once a

ii;week or every two weeks.

191

1101 AQ IzK?A sitive.

Q

I :: i relationshi

Since sR”e left The WhiteHous& ’ has your

I131 1 -

deykwwfurther1141 -interms ’ of closeness?

I151 AQ Sure. Yes.

::76iher now?

Q And how would you describe your relationship with

1181 A I wouM consider her a close friend.

Q Now, do you know why Monica left The White House

i:iiwhen she left her employment at The White House?

A She told me that the

i::;were getting a new director of the oL

told her it was because they

ce, and he wanted to

1231 bripg in his own person to do correspondence. They were

[24]going to take the two positions that were currentty there,

tzslmake it one position and just reorganize the office. I dont’ ’

OIC-Starr Page 14 to Page 19
3377

as.4 Ashley Raines, 1129198 XMAXIII

Page 20 Page 23

[ 11 think they were very happy with her supervrsor and her

[z ]worklngcondrhons and envrronment or, I mean, what she was [ 3 1 doing so

(41 0 So did Ms. Jolley leave as well7

(51 A Yes, she did.

0 Do you have any knowledge or information from

1 ;iMonica or elsewhere about whose decision it was that Monica

i 8 1 and Jocelyn leave?

A Well several things. In my office, we have The

ii ,i‘ White House personnel liarson and we deal a lot with the

[ 1 I 1 personnel issues. So I hear thin s goin on in that capacity

[ 12 1 and also from Monica. So from &onica? heard Tim Keating.

(13lwho was the kind of - I dont know that he was called the ’

114 ]Chief of Staff, but he was kind of in that role, he oversaw

115 1 the operations of Le

[~6loffice. what I would 8

islative Affairs. And then from my

ear IS that Evelyn Lreberman.Tan

and I dont know if there were others. That ’ s’

~~i~~r$&~ly people that I remember-the only names

I:i;Tirn -

Q So Evelyn and Tim Keating - Evelyn Liebeman and

1221 A Yes.

I231 Q Im sorry ’ - Tim Keating -

[241

[251 Aa R-Rht. ad some role in the decision to eliminate

i l l A I dont ’ rer?ember that it was her specifically. As

i 2 ! issues come up, the offtce talks about things. And whether i 3 I It was my boss who came In and told her or - I cant ’ imagine

I 4. they would have had a rxnversatron like that in our general

: 5 1 offce. but my assum ttcn

I 6 1 took place was that tI!

from heanng whatever conversations

ose were the people.

:7! Q Would rt x fair to characterize that as office

[ 8 lscuddlebut? In other WCXS. you didnt ’ - as opposed to -

[ 9; office talk about why

[ i o; sheet of piper -

she sft as opposed to you didnt get a ’

cl:1

Q

Thats exactly ’ right..

1121

il3jthe-

- that sad where YOU know who was resoonsible for

I141 A And I wasnt involved in any of the conversation to ’

rlsithat.

Q So off -rn terms of this office talk you had I :7”1 heard that it was Evelyn LRberman and Tim Keating; is that

rlelcorrect?

[191 A Yes.

Q Was there any office talk at the time about why I:; IEvelyn Lieberman or anybody else wanted Monica transferred?

[221 A

1231 Q

Yes. there was.

And what was that?

A From what I heard it sounded as if Eve

i::inoti&d Monica spending a large amount of her time inr‘

n had

he

Page 21

t 11 Monica and Jocelyn from OlA?

121 A Well, I dont know if Evelyn was involved in ’

t31elrmrnating Jocelyn also. I wouM assume that, but I dont’

t4lknow.

THE FOREPERSON:

[65;speak up a little bit.

Excuse me. You still need to

I71 THE WITNESS: Okay. Imsorry. ’

l8l BY MS. WIRTH:

Q Now when Monica left the Office of Legislative

1 :z;Affairs do you know what happened to her after that, where

[ 1 I 1 she went to work?

I dont believe so. ’

Did you ever hear that she worked briefty for Patsy

ilqjThomasson? _

1201 A No.

I211 Q Do YOU know when she ended up working at the

ii2 j Pentagon zugh

1231 Q

Xrememberhspringof96. ’ - j

1241

[251was at the

okay. And did you keep in touch with her when she /

Pentagon? I

Page 22 /

111 A Yes.

121 Q And phone calls back and forth and so on?

131 A Yes.

I41 Q And did you continue to see her on a social basis?

IS1 A Yes.

1

176ijob?

Q And can you tell us whether she was happy on that

A I - throughout the whole

i:;enjoyed the job. It was somethin

[lOI Q Do you know wha

i :: i the Penta

A She was the confidential assistant to Ken Bacon,

[ 13lduties. S4

on spokesman and assisted him in secretarial type

j

’

e would also go on trips that the Secretary of

1111 Defense would go in which the press would attend and she

r 15 1 would transcribe an interviews that Cohen would have. /

I

1161 BY M R. V&SENBERG:

i :i; Keatin

Q The - you mentioned that Monica thought it was liti

[ 191 througa

who made the decision to transfer her but that

The White House personnel liaison, whioh was near I

tzolwhere you were located -

rz11 A She sits next to me.

I221 0 Who would that be who sits next to you?

1231 A Kel McClure.

Q AnilKelly McClure, was she the ona who told you

I:: i that k was Tim Keating and Evelyn Liiberman?

Page 24

A

I :!; awestruok with the Pres

fi31Wrng.

I think ~~~~~~~~$~~h~~~~~~d~~s

[ 12 1 the fact that she was comin over frequently to the West

Maybe she would wa k by as he was walking out or I 14 lsomething of that nature.

Q An

i:zltalk in addition to l?

hing e!se you can remember in terms of office

I 17 I little awestruck?

angrng out at the West Wing, being a

A Just that they used - she had probably used the i : i i word inappropriate as her behavior.

I201

1211 2 %% those circumstances that I had iust

talk about inapprop&Mness in terms

hat I - not that I heard, no.

&C

Page 25

Q

I: lldescribed to us?

It was more behavior, and the behavior that youve’

[31 A Right. Right.

I41 Q No one said anything about her - you didnt ’ hear ISI any office talk about her typing being bad or anything like

[sIthat?

171 A No, not that I remember. Uh-uh.

0

fiithreat - &Jh

You didnl hear any office talk about her being a

a sioal threat to the President, did you?

I101 BINHAK One more question. _

Ill1 BY MR. BINHAK:

1121 Q Dii you hear any office talk that she was not doing

;;;;herjob corct)((?b. No,

I151 BY MS. WtRTH:

i16j Q Now about the time that Monica was I guess taken [ 17 lout of the Office of Legislative Affairs - when you heard

tlelthese things about, you know, Monica being awestruck with the

I I 91 President or, you know, frequently han kg around the West

tzo]Win

4.

and so on, were you aware of tha 9yoursetfeither from

I 211 anyt ing h&at y$03aw or anythrng that she told you?

1221

Q

iZ;the Office of Le islative

rringthzzTnftz;E;t;fi;Erking at

tss]friendship. did s e speak to you about the Prestdent?

___. --. ___~. ~___

Page 20 to Page 25 OlCStarT
3378

Ashley Raines, l/29/98

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Page 26 Page 29

1-1-1

L11

[2l

[31

141

[51

I61

171

Page 27

Q Go to the mall with her?

A Yes.

Q Go topartiiswith her?

A On occasion.

Q Do ou know anybody named Kevin Moran?

A Y eKa

Q Have you ever gone to a party with her at Kevins’

iejhouse?

A Oh yes. Did she go with me to that party? I

rl(z!dont’ - aduallv. no. I dont remember she was at that ’

ifiipartywith me..

1121 Q at his house?

1131 A

But you went to a pa

I did, but I dont ’ thrnk?l s e was there.

I141 0 Okay. Do you remember -

I151 A I cant be sure. I can ’ t remember. I don ’ t think ’

i161so-

,171 0 Okay. Do you have a friend named Helen? i;ei

j191

I201

I211

1221

I231

I241

t2s1

A Helen. yes:

0 And isshesomeone Monica knew?

A I think they probably met a couple of times.

Q And do you have a friend named Lisa?

A Lisa, yes.

Q Whos Lisa? ’

A

Q

Shes my roommate. ’

And she s someone Monica knew as welt?

Page 28

111 A Yes.

I1’ 0 Have you been to eech others homes? ’

131 A Yes.

I41 Q So youve been to Monica ’ s apartment? ’

151 A Yes.

Q

lflyou took or anyb

181

Dg;;l;i;zym~~~~hyourxrssession that

A No, do not.

0 At the time that you started to hear, you know the

t:~~offk~ talk about wh Monica was asked to leave the office of [ 11 jLegrstatiie Affairs, tr,e business about, you know, being

112 jawestruck and hanging around the West Wrn$ too frequently and

[ 13 iso on. did ou share any of that wtth Monloa .

,111 L-.1 x . No I would not have. That was in my offtcial

r151capacity.

[16] Q

A

Did you ever tell her that, that talk?

I cant’ imagine that I would have. I dont’

i :: ! remember having a conversation. lm’ pretty - I keep my

j1sjoffiual and personal business separate.

I201 Q Have ou ever met anybody in Monicas family? ’

Ill’ A Yes, I ave. K

[--‘I‘ Q Have you met her mother?

I231 A Yes.

1241 0 Have you met her dad?

I251 A Yes.

!:I Have you met her brother?

:I?! AQ Yes.

!3!

AQ

Has she met your mother?

:4: Yes.

!5;

A0

Have your mothers met?

:6!

Q

On one occasion, yes.

Now. did there come a time when Monica dtscussed ii i with you th: na+u;z. of her relationship with the President?

I91

[IO! Q

A

And can you tell us when that oocurred?

I remember that it was in the summer of 96. ‘ I

iii 1 dont remember the ’ exact month.

Q And do you remember where

i::iconversation took place? Was it on the teiep

ou were when that

r;one? In

rlslperson?

!I61 A tt was in person.

[171 Q

I181 A

Do you remember where you were?

When she was telling me about it. we were in my __^^_

,lY,LUl.

I201 Q An4

j211 A She

(221 oseehiminhis-

(231.iinow, that they WC _.___ [ 2 4 1 Incidents over the pent

r251ooourred to that point.

d what did she tell you?

? totd me that he would call her. that she would

- in the office in his study area, and you

WH talk. She was kind of rela

d of their relationship as I

ing

had

Page 30

0 Was she talking about things that ooourred when she

I: iwas worki;g atytr White House?

I31

i:;any ph

Q And did she tell you anythin

&?

ical relationship between her and SI

about the nature of

e President

[6lduring at cwersation?

j71 A Yes, she did.

!81 Q Whatdid she tell ou?

A She told me that t

jliiwould have oral sex.

zey would kii and that they

I::;that?

Q When she told you this, were you surprised to hear

i13; A Yes.

Q When she told you this, what was her demeanor at i ::; that time? Was she telling you, you know, in a upset manner

[ 16]COfICetned manner, excited manner, happy? I mean, how v&rid

[171you describe her demeanor?

Page 31

.--,

t)lCStarr Page 26 to Page 31
3379

BSA Ashley Raines, 1129198

__~ ~

XW6)

Page 32

[ll 0 And did she tell ou how she fett about that?

12; A I think she was f!u strated

Q

ii j at that point to

Did she tell you whether she had made any attempts

et in touch with the Prestdent?

[51 A 80. I dont think so. I don ’ t know how she would ’

[sthave.

Q Did she tell

jilanswered this - did she tel7

ou - and you may have already

t 9 i took place?

you where their relahonship

;:;;0fhX.

A She told me in the study. which I off of his

(121 0 Have ou been in the Oval Office yourself?

1131 A Yes, I ave. K

[I41 0 And have you ever been in the study?

t151 A No.

1161 Q What isrur understandin

[ i7 1 study area? How woul 8-

of the nature of the

r1slaccess?

you descnbe tha a terms of publrc

1191 A

Q

I dont think there is any public access. ’

Is that a room that you would describe as private

$i;to the President?

I221 A Yes.

Q

1:: i relationshi

Dii Monica indicate to you at what time of day her

with the President took place?

t251 I When she worked there, I think she told me it was

Page 33

11 Ion weekends, and afternoon or evening I dont really know. ’

I21 Q Do

t;

ou remember her saying weekend?

I31 A Uh- uh. Yes.

[II Q Do you remember her saying evening as well?

(51 A No. No.

Q Okay. Did she give

r

ou any indication of how often

176ishe had had physical relations wtth he President up to that

[ 8 1 point?

A I dont remember the frequency because, again, she ’

t:z;was telling me - kind of recalling events of previous

I1.-1I I t historv. so I dont reallv have a concept of how frequent it ’

tlztwas. *.

I131 Q

A

When she told you this, did you believe her7

It was a lot of information at one time. I had no

i ::i reason not to believe her, so I just of listened.

[IsI Cl Did ou give her any advice?

1171 A No. rdidnt reallv know what kind of advice to ’

i ;i igive in that situation.

Q Now did there come a time when ou learned from

I&?iMonica that the relaiionship between her and the bresident .

t21jhad resumed in an

A Wex

way?

foralongperiodoftirneerlguesslong

i::ispans of time would go buy where she woudnt’ hear from htm

[24]on the phone, you know, weeks, six. maybe even a ceupk? of

tzslmonths. And she didnt see him for a very bng ’ period of

Page 34

[ 11 time except for if she went to an event he was speaking at or

tzjsomethin

r3rfor a verv

of that nature. But she diint’ actually

% P

o see him

no wried of time. Afterthe time she old me.

i ; i it was basicallyust phone calls. ’ ‘

0 bka

Iz; him again on the te

.

&

Did she tell you when she started to talk to

A

phone?

Yeah I believe she did. I dont remember when it ’

fitwas.thouah. I re&mber it was a long time before she heard

igifrom him Z

8

ain.

You told us that this conversation where she

~:~~revealed her relationship with the President tack place in

t12jthe summer of 1996; is that right?

(131 A Yeah, I think so.

Q Can you tell us roughly when - if you can - H

:::lthe teleohone calls started? If vou can.

rhen

,__,~ ~~ ~.

I161 A I real

t171 MR. WISI&

cant. ’ Im’ sorry.

BERG: Can I ask one question?

I181 MS. WIRTH: Yeah sure.

[I91 BY MR. WlSENBERG:

Q Its just a clarification. Is it ’ that-I thought

I:yiyou had said - you had said that when she first tdd you

t22labout it the relationship appeared to be over; is that

r23,corred!’

A I wouldnt characterize it as over, she just hadn ’ t’

I::;heard from him in a while.

Page 35

Q So its’ not even necessarily that there was a

iiicomplete break In communrcation between them; is that

[ 3 1 correct7

I41

I51

; Jo”; long periods of time between communicat:on.

151’ MR. BINAAK:

171

iai

THE WITNESSCa{ul$k a couple of questions?

BY MR. BINHAK:

Q First, you tned to describe a little bit about

[ :iiMonica was behavrng when she told you this information in the

1111 car. Can you just

[12) tell them what she9

ive the Grand Jury as best you can just

old you In the car. and as best you can

[ 13 1 remember the words that she used.

1141 A The words that she used?

Q

I:zihad with her.

Yeah, just try to recount the conversation that you

I :z;tellin

A She would rela - she, you know, started off by

(191 Chte.9

me it happened when sze was an intern working in the

of Staffs office during the furtou h - the ovemment

t2o~furlou h.

(2 11 the Ct?

She would talk to him when3, 8 e woul come down to

ref of Staffs office to check on the status of how the

122 1 negotiations were going. She would tell me of the - she

t23jkind of laid out the sequence of events and, you know, this

124 ]was on a Tuesda for exam le. and then on the next da he

tzslsaid tRis or I sawtim here. &td then a couple of days layer

Page 36

t1 lshe had to deliver something to the West Wrng,.and she walked

(21 b the office and he was comin

~31 hx. ontca.” It was those kinds of ph.

out, and he sard “Hi,

14 jgoin

ings that she was krnd of

through telling me as she remembered any interaction

tsjwith%m.

Q So at least at the beginnin

/76ishe began b describing how she met wit

of the conversation

i 8 I- at least at x

ii him, and then this -’

e time the specific instances that led to a

fstmore gradrle;y&yn of the relatronshtp.

1101

[III Q lsqhat correct?

A Basically any interaction that they had, whether it

i::{was just a Hi ‘ ” or she saw him do this or yeah.

Q So its not like she told you just at one ’

I::! had this particular intimate relationship with the Presir!

oint I

ent, [ 161 she gave you a series of events that actually led to that?

1171 A Right. Right.

Q Now so

t : ii working in the Chief of B

ou said that she met him when she was

tafts’ office.

rzorthe Chref of Staff was at that time?

Do you remember who

.--.

f211 A Leon Panetta.

Q Oka

IZiWing of The White

.

zt

And Leon Panetta, did he work in the West

ouse?

1241 A Yes.

(251 Q Did he work near where the President was.

-”

Page 37

(11 A

Q

Yeah, down the hallwa

So was it conceivable r;at she wduld meet the

IiiPresident at the time she was working in Leon Panettas’

t41ofiice7

I51 A

Q

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Okay. And so now youve described ’ - you said that

i76;she described to you a series of I guess we can call them

[ 8 1 innocuous personal contacts that shed had with the ’

I 9 I President, correct?

1101 A Sure.

0 After she described those .whats-- ’ how did she -

{::iyou know, the best you can recall I understand ’ this was a

113 1 while ago, but how did she describe the next level of

[ 14 jescalatron in the relationship between her and the President?

1151 A

Q

What do you mean the -

Well in other words you said that she said I met

I:tihirn in the office, we’ passed, we &&hatted I saw him in

t 1s j the hall. Then what did she describe was the next - what

tlg~happened after that?

A Well, during the events that she was recalling to

I:yime would have been instances where they had physical contact_

(22 1 It would have been in the same uence of events that she

t231told me that she saw him in the hal =14v

Q

ay.

i::;in the halfway?

Did she say that she had physical contact wtth hii_

Page 32 to Page 37

-

OlCStan
3380

0sA Ashley Raines. l/29/98 xMAx171

:I1

Page 38

A Oh. no. no. no. no. no.

j2i Q Okay. .So-’

~3: A Im just sa ’ ing that there wasnt ’ - she didnt’

I‘ ! lead up to - she would terI me the sequence of events as

: 51 they happened. And as they happened, there were

j 6; urcumstances in which there was physlcal contact.

:7: Q But the physical contact was not the first time she

f 9 I met the President?

:31 A No, no.

: 1;; they - the

0 Did she give you a sense of how long it took before

first time she met him until they actually had

: IZ 1 any kind of physical contact?

A

i::;which the first

Well it was still during the furlough I think in

iI5ljust a couple oP

hysical contact took place. So I would say

da S.

Q Andlthen you said that later she described to you

I:76lsome pho;each!;;$she was with the President.

1181 Q

iii&e they having? Were they just lsarssmg

Did she describe toy- whatJK;i;fppne calls

1 z 11 they discussi

A

In the phone calls?

“9 dont remember. At first I think basically it ’

i::;was when she wouM be around maybe on a weekend when he would

124 lbe in the office and basical

rz51possibility of seeing each ozi;’

dscussing, you know. the

er.

Page 41

! : : conversations would take place. did she - she would call you

1: i from time to time and tell you about them? Is that how you

:x! learned about them?

:4: A She wouldnt call me to tell me, you know. She ’

: j!wOUld call me in our re ular fnendship if we were making

[ 6;

: 7: f:

lans or talking and ca Pchmg up. and she would mention that

ed called or ’ -

[B: Q Did she tell you anything about what she was

hone calls. how she received them. how

[zsltelephone?

Page 39 Page 42

I11 Q And he would call heR

I21 A Yes.

I31 Q that she called him?

A

I :i had never called him, and I dont think ’

[6]hOW to.

,-I, 0 Okav

III A Some. Some.

0 And knowing Monica did her recounting of the

I : i telephone conversations sound true? Would they have a ring

[ 4 lof truth to them? She was telling you the truth?

,

[51 A I didnt have any reason to believe that she wasn ’ t’

[ 6ltelling me the truth.

I71 BY MR. WlSENBERG:

[El Q Not just the phone conversations but a lot of what

rglyouve’ relayed to us that she told ou historical about it I 1 o 1 seems 10. be fairly, fairly detailed. has it somezing that I 111 had the nng of truth to you back at the time she was telling

!12lyou?

I131 A When she would tell me things, I would listen. I

I 14 I didnt’ have any reason to believe she was lying, but you know [ IS 1 I didnt go ask anybody else if they thought ’ rt was true or

risitalked to anybody else about it to confirm her story. I

I 17 Ididnt’ have - I couldnt do that. ’

Q When she wouM be upset because she hadnt heard ’

i :iifrom the President in a while and then would be happy when

I 20 I she had heard from him, did that seem to be me& up to you or

1211genuine frustration and then oenuine happiness?

1221- $y &seeMeferiuifbe. . .

1231

Q

t::;by the FBI?

& you recall that you* been recently in&Mewed

j.1

I81

191

EY Mz.%i RTH :

0 Now. did she tell YOU the kinds of thinas that thev

[ ioiwould talk about on.the-telephonk w,hen these convebations _

[ I I 1 took place_Athe tele hone conversabons?

I :: i not in detail.

I be P[eve she probably would have in generalities.

You know they were personal conversations.

[I I 1 but she would me kind of subject matters.

I151 you remember any of them?

::76iand

I remember that he would talk about his childhood

[ 1 e 1 ctuIfz#

rowing up. and she would relay stories about her

ood and growing up. I guess normal conversations that

[ 191 you would have with someone that youre getting to know. ’

I201 0

A

Anything else that you remember?

You know, they woukl

I::; he was going to take or had taken ans.

robably talk about trips that

tnps that she was

[231taking, you w. with the Secretary and - I cant remember ’

[ 24 1 any specific Subjects.

12sljust -

Im sure ’ that there were plenty, I

Page 40

Q When you said a dnt ago that to the best of your

I::memory those conversations took place on the weekend?

I31 A No. No, I dont know that ’ I said that.

[41 0 Im’ so

: 51 know when the

_ Maybe I misunderstood that. Do you

I61 A hell

took p ace r

the

[ 7 1 home, it would be &me!

wouM happen - if he called her at

imes in the middle of the n’ ht.

181 Q

[slmean?

When you said middle of the night. w at “(, bme . do you

[lOI A

[I11

Q lntnt~~orn~R;d:OO,~OO in the morning..

A Yeah. She said it was retty late because tt would

i

i ::; wake her up, but she went to bed pre

[ 14 1 to get up really early for work.

early because she had

And then also the

~1slconversations would take

! 16 1 at work and he would call !

lace on the weekend while she was

er at her desk or -

Q

i : 2: 1 conversatiF?

Do you have any idea the length of some of these 1

Dii she ever tell you how long they spoke?

I191

Q

She might have, but I don? remember.

You may have been asked this already b

I:;; but let me ask it a

Mr. Binhek.

122 Iwhether the Presi&l

ain. Do you have any knowledge as or

ent made the phone calls or she made them

12 3 1 or a little bit of both? Do you know?

I241 A He would call her.

I251 Q Now, during the time that these telephone

s

Page 43

111 A Yes.

Q

1 :i interviewed you when you described And do You -1“~[~#$~t~oyou about

~4 lher physical-relationshtp with the President during the ttrne

1s 1 she was working at The White House as reciprocal oral sex?

I 6 I Do vou remember savina that?

i7j - A Yes, life:

[El Q

A

And thats ’ - that was in fact what she told you?

191 Yes Im’

Q N&,didp

retty surethatwas true.

I:yithe President in

yoq ever learn that Mqnica began to see

ll21 A ~pjsoh”ea~!?7

Q

t$he started to see him again in

And do you reme&e;yghly when that began whe

1151 A I think it was p&

r1r11997

bty around the beginning of

,__, .--

I171

1181

I191

1201

1211

fZlWe

izci

1251

MR. WISENBERG:

MS. WlRTH:

Are we bud enough.

Its time for a break. ’

THE FOREPERSON: its’ time for a break.

MR. WISENBERG:

MS. WIRTH:

Oh, sorry.

Thats fine. Sorry. ’

MR. WlSENBERG: Well take a 10 minute ’

II come out and get you in 10 minutes. ‘

r

rtness excused.)

Brief recess.)

break.

OIC-Starr

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BSA

3381

Ashlev Raines. 1129198

Page 44

I:1

i.?]

gitW&pp.)

(31 Q I belsve JUS! before we took a break I had asked i 4 lwhetner there came a tme when Monica told ou that she

[slstarted to see the President again in person ayter these -

j 6) thts senes;f tele$stone calls.

(71

1% 1 and I

Q

thank

And I think I asked you roughly when that occurred,

vou said eanv ‘97.

rioi A Yes. _

ill1 Cl

1131 A

Do you have any recollection as to what month?

No, I dont’

[131 0 Was it still mntertime?

1141 A I donl think I would connect it to a season. I

i1sjdont’ know.

MR. WISENBERG:

i:t;so the peo

f

le

You realty have to try to speak up

in the back can hear you.

[I81 HE WITNESS:

1191 BY MS WlRMMaybe I should face this way.

L-d, Q Now, do you have any recollection of how she told

i:i:you that she be an to see bin again what she said?

A

i::;talk on the

do. The on

8

hone, she wouzf

thing I dan recall is when they would

ask when she would see him.

And do you remember anything that she told you

i::iabout what the President saaid to her in response to those

Page 45

[ 11questions?

121 A

[ 3 1 remember.

We ‘ ll figure something out. ’ ” Thats all I really ’

141 0 Okay. Generally what do you remember about Monica

t5 j telling you that she began to see the President in person

tslagain? Did she tell ou where, when?

171 A I donr; remember the details of the conversation

i 8 j only that, you know. arrangements had been made. Oh, wait.

[ 91 Im sorry. I ’ ust did recall something. She went to a ‘ radio

tloladdress wit.c, her famity. Her family was in town and I think

[ 111 she told me she had asked if she could ma

tdy

be come to a radio

[ 12 1 addressed and he said that - well, she to me that he told

[ 13 l her that he would talk to Betty, his assistant, and try to

1 I I iwork something out.

I151 0 And did she uttimatety go to that radio address

tl6laccording to her?

[171 A Yes. Yes.

Q And is there some conversation that took

i ::I that radio address or something that ha

a3 at

J

pened after that I&

I 2 o l made you remember the radio address.

A I think just that she told me that Betty had been

I:: j asked to, you know, help get her family in, and it probably

tz3rhad started some communication between her and Betty about

124 1 her comrng to visit.

r251started.

I think that was probably when that

Page 46

III Q

MS. ws)RTH:

U until this point, do you know whether Monica -

iSland dosed.

Just for the record. the door opened

(41 $Y MS. WtRTH:

Mr Brnhek exits the room. Mr. Binhek returns.)

151

[I 11 I dent know that there was an

Q

htng beyond that.

Okay. So wha s the next thing that you remember

i :: I that happened after the radio address?

II41 A

(151 Q

A

That you heard,,,.

Well, after -

I mean afler a period of time then she totd me

i:;lthat she had gone to vistt him

11 B 1 it was that it ha

P

pened.

I realty canfremember when

but Betty would dear in. She told

t19lme that Betty teared her in.

I201 Q Do you remember what time of day?

[211 A No. I would assume that it was probably on the

122 Iweekends just because there arent a lot of ’

tz3tweekends. and that was one concern was tRat here ”OPte around shouktn ont’

(24 1 be a lot of

I251 r5

eople around when she went to visit.

Okay. Did she tell you anything about the visits?

XMAXI8)

Page 47

i l l

121

13!

A She did.

Q

A

What did she tell you?

She would tell me [ 4 1 that - the subjects that they talkeJ

ou know, basically as before

about. It was kind of

(518 mentonng type relatronshrp. She admired him, seeked hrs

I 6 I advise. you know. normal professional type questions.

I71 Q Do you remember anythrng specific she told you that i 9 1 they talked about?

rg! A 1. really - I cant remember specifics. She ’ would

[ioltalk. again, subjects. you know, tnps that he had gone on,

[ 11 ltnps that she had

I 12 l to what she thoug I! one on. She made some recommendations as

t would be a ood

rl3lcant’ remember what the subje-c!

idea for something, and I

was about.

Cl41 BY MR. BINHAK:

Cl51 Q

I161 A

A policy type thing?,

I I 7 1 that she had.

Not polrcy. not JUS kind of ideas, you know, ideas

iisi Cl But ideas for him personally or for the country or

t19jthe Presidency?

[201 A For the administration type things I guess.

1211 BY MS. WtRTH. I--,

I221 0

123 I responded to a

You were about to tell us something, that he

sug estion of hers?

[241 A I thrn9, he encouraged her saying ou know those

12s 1 were all good ideas. He would thank about him. Jut ‘ I mean

Page 48

I 11 it was never an

12 l he decided to dyt’ R.’

hmg s’ nrficant where she said “Oh. look,

i:ithe visits?

Q

o sometrng I suggested.”

Do you remember anything else she told you about

A

i 2 1 be no physical contact, there WOUM just be, you know,

That sometimes when she would go vistt there would

t7tconversation.

I91 Q And what about other times?

A I mean there still were some times when there would

t:z;be physical contact.

[Ill Q Dii she tell you the nature of that?

II21 A

[13loccasion.

The same as before, kissing and oral sex on

[I41 Q Did she tell you where, specifically what room

Page 49

Cl And did she tell you an / ::; her relationship with Betty at that time32’

hrr& about the nature of

Was she getting

1131doser to Betty than she had been previously?

I141 A I think so.

I151 pcfl: Bruce Udotf enters the room4

Let the record reflect that ruce Wolf

I$ihas entered the room. Hes another Associate Independent ’

tl91Counsel.

[:i/question?

THE WITNESS: Im sorry, could you repeat the ’

f211 MS. WtRTH:

0

I::lrelationshi

II

I lost my train of thought mysetf. Oh was theii

getting doser, her relationship with Betty?

I::; have conversations as to whether - when was a good time for

Yes, I believe it was because they would have to

Page 44 to Page 49 -__- OlCStarr
3382

q SA Ashlev Raines. I/29/98 1”lXlQl

Page 50

i ; : her to come VISIT. if tt was going to work. So conversahons ( 2 1 lrke that wouid take place.

! 3 : Q D o

; J ; what the nature of K

ou know whether she ever discussed with Betty

er retationshr with the President was?

A I dont know that ’ t

12; conversatron about it, just in that

f:ey really ever had a direct

ou know, she would come

; - ;vrsrt. I dont really know that they ’ 94ad another - anymore

rsiconversations about it. She may have, but I dont know. ’

Q

i iii what time if da

Okay. And do you have any memory whatsoever as to

these visits would take place?

I:l: r.thank tt would depend on the day, who was around.

[ 12 j She was cleared in some mornings. There may have been some

[ lslafternoons. I dont think that there was ever an evening ’

r14lvrsit.

I151 Q

A

Do you know how long her visits took generally?

I never asked her a span of time. I cant ’ imagrne

i :7”; they would be very long just know his schedule is pretty

r 18 1 hectic.

Q Do you know what preci itated the visits in the

I:zisense whether she would call and ask &?tty if she could see

t2llthe President or whether the President called her, meaning

[221Monica?

A Right. From what I understood from her, most of

I::;the visits were prompted by her asking to see him through

:

I 2 5 1 Betty. Or if she had had a conversation with him on the

Page 51

hone and asked if she could see him, he may have mentioned

tzolminutes.”

Q

I:: 1 that occasion?

And did you hear whether she was able to get in on

A I think she got in but only saw Betty. I mean,

i::;thats’ what she told me. I didnY see her when she was

tzslthere.

I:; Presidents whereabouts on tha ’ occaston tha you recall?

Q Wasshetoktan\rihiv+respecttethe

131 A Not particulady related to that visit_ no.

I41 Q Do you know whether she ever had any nicknames fo;

[ 5 1 the President that she used in her conversations with you?

t61 A Shedkt. I

I71 Q

A

What were they?

Well, when she was referring to him and talking to

1 i 1 me she would call him the

I

bi

[lOI A JUROR:

creep.

Cou d ou speak louder. P

Ill1 THE WITNESS:

A JUROR:

l%e bg creep.

I121 Big creep.

I131 THE WITNESS: Mmm.

1141 BY MS. WIRTH:

I:zlhirn?

0 Do you know why that she chose that nickname for /

A

I :,;‘ him on the

She - well obviously, she didnt want to refer to ’

hone as the President and she real I

[ 19 1 referred to 1.im that way when she was ‘ talkin

r

rsonal situation where she was saying the

1:;; o. you know. wherever his trip was taking him. And I assume

I

[ 22 1 the word creep just because she would get upset when she

i

/

t23lwouldnt’ hear from him and wouldnt see him, that she didn ‘ t’

12 4 1 appreciate the tack of attention, you know, for whatever I

[ 2 5 1 reason called bun that. I

Page 53

[II 0 Did she have any nicknames for the Preside-! that

r 2 ! she used when she spoke to hrm directlv?

i3i A Yes, she did.

!41 Q What drd she call hrm?

[ii A She told me that shed ’ call him handsome.

161 0 Do

17 1 any nicknames at r

ou know whether Monica herself was ca:ed by

he Whrte House?

,F(, .-. A Not to me no

191 0

110 1 the stalker?

Did you eveihear anyone call her or refer to as

I111 A No, I cant remember ’ that anvbodv referred tc her

I 12 1 that way to me. - .

I131 Q DO $0~ know whether Monica ever received any gifts I 14 1 from the President.

il5i A Yeah, she told me that she did.

0

1:761do you know? if you know.

Was that before or after she left The White House,

llE1 A You know. I dont’

ou tell us what gifts she told you the

The ones that I remember were a hat pin.

t2.21 Q

A

What is a hat pin?

I didnt know ’ e&her until she told me that it

i::iexisted. ks’ a long pin that you stick in like the side

t251of ahat. And I guess its to keep your hat ’ oh. You put

Page 54

[I 1 your hair through it on the inside. I didnt know. A hat ’

rzlpin. a broach.

[31 Q

[41 A

What kind of broach? Do you remembeR

It was something that you would wear on a lapel. [ s 1 It was kind of ant’ uey looking.

[61 Q Diz you ever see it?

[I‘ A Yes. She wore it pretty frequently

181 0 Im sorry, continue. ’

I91 A

Q

There was a bodr. 7he Leaves of Grass.”

1101 Do ou remember who wrote that?

[ill A WaITWhitman.

[1z]wouw be

There was a - my English teacher

vi

ud of me. There was -

Cl31 E FOREPERSON: You have to keep -

I141 A JUROR: The book. what was it?

t151 THE WITNESS: Leaves of Grass.” It was ‘ soms

BY MS. WtRTH:

Did you personalty see all these items yoursem

Page 55

A The? items I did. .and I think thats why ’ I

~ j$tef?befed them ts because I dd see them. She showed than

I41 Q You saw the broach, correct?

151 A Yes.

t61 Q

A

Did you see the hat pin?

171 I think so. I think so.

I81 Q Andth4zbook?

191 A Thebook,

Q

i:y{gaveherthebook? Isthereany

Dii she te& an~&;n~;yt;h~~tres.k3ent

I 12 I particular book?

I131 A Besides the fact that he liked it?

I141 Q Dti she tell you he tiked it?

I151 A Yes.

Q

::76jPresktent?

Okay. Now, did Monica ever give any gifts to the

1181 A Yes,shedid.

OlCStarr Page 50 to Page 55
3383

BSA Ashley Raines, 1129198 XMAX(l0)

Page 56 Page 59

[ I 1 interest In them. She really liked mens ’ hes and enjoyed

[2 lpicking them out. And she knew that he irked ties! and a lot

[ 3 1 of peo le give them as

; 4 I ties. Rfter the first one,9

ifts to him, so she gave him those

thmk they were In relation to

i;i;;zi;hda& Christmas. .

Drd she ever tell you whether the President wore

[II Q And do you remember when that occurred, when tha:

! 2 1 conversahon took place7

131

!I:

$ lAbnedl”_e‘ that It was around the summer of 97. ‘

151 ,d, A I thank earl summer.

(6! Q And howdyId Monrca feel about that?

I:] A

Q

She was upset about It

[81 And what happened then?

[91 A I thank in her own mend and what she wouM share

[ 10 lwith .me she was trymg to get over rt and was contemplatin

: 111 movrng, looking for another ob.

(12 1 communications and thou

tl3]couldcomebacktoTheW4(1

She wanted to get into PF? t maybe - I dont know ’ - she

, ,..._.I,_

t9: A Yeah. She would tell me when she would see him

[ CI jwearing it at an event he went to or whatever situation he

I 1 o 1 was in and when she would see hrm on t.v or in the paper.

ill ] Q ave him besrdes the ties?

A

Any other gifts that she

She gave him - she tolBme that she gave him some

i ::; books and a little frog. She heard that he liked frogs and

[IIjshe found a cute little frog that she thought was something

[ I 5 1 he could put on his desk.

[I61 Q

1171~0~ saw?

Did she have any photographs of the President that

t131 A

Q

She did, yes.

Do you remember anything about them? Were they

I:i&jst pictures of him or pictures of him wtth other people or

t211wtth her?

A Well, she showed me pictures from that radio

i::;address that they went to with her family. And then there

[ 24 1 was one just the two of them, 1 beheve also at the radio

tzsjaddress. I think she had other random pictures from another

Page 57

[I 1 time she was there she might have gotten them.

Q Did she have an

): “3,R.

phot ra hs of the President

f:iwearing any particular tie that s e boug t rm that you

[ 4 1 recall?

A Yeah. I think she showed me a picture that she had

izlgotten of him wearing the tie. He was signi

171 Q ZI

something.

the books -

A

Okay. Other than the ties a

And she ave me a copy of that picture too. I

I “, : actually have a copy of t 3,e.ptcture.

1101 Q Do ou still have that?

I111 A YeaK

Q

, I think somewhere in my envelope of pictures.

Other than the ties and the books any other

/ :: i presents that you recall she told you she gave the President?

A

i::ithat stand out.

None that I can recall. Those are the only ones

Q Did she ever tell ou anything about a mug, a

I :7” ;drtnking mug that she gave the Jrestdent?

1181 A

Q

She may have, but I dont remember. ’

t:~~Monic.a on it?

Anything about a drinking mug with the words Santa

(211

[221

Aa ~a$a$lonica?

I231 A No.

Q Dii she ever go on any trips with the President

i<:ithat you know of?

Page 58

nd where was that to. do vou know?

i6i A I dor?t.

-

Q Did she have any personal contact with the

ii 1 President on that trip that you know of that she totd you

rslabout?

[ioi A I think that they saw each other.

Ill1 Q Saw each other just in passing?

I121 A She tokl me that she saw him.

. [131 Q But not a personal visit?

I141 A No, I dont think so. ’

Q

I :zitold you about how, you know, her reta ionsh

[ 17 1 President pr

rnz%

Can you tell us anything aboy that Mor

wtth the

[ 1 e 1 visits

ressed over time? I know you old us that

resu sometimes separated by long periods of time.

[ 14 1 New York or London.

rte House and do it or go somewhere,

You know, she was kind of just playing

115 1 with options in her mind of what she could do.

1161 Q

[ 17 I Jones case?

Did she tell you she had been subpoena in the Paula

1181 A She did.

(191 Q

I201 A

And do you remember roughly when she told you that?

Yes. It was the weekend before Christmas.

[211 Q This past Christmas?

I221 A

Q

Yes, of 97. ‘

1231

124laboUt this?

And what was her reaction when she talked to you

i25j 1. A Well, she told me she had been subpoeneed. Her

Page 60

[ 11 reaction was of concern. concern that, you know. she had been

t2 1 singled out or ulled

t3jdeposition itseB

into this and concerned that- of the

Q

and what she would say.

i:;to testify to in the case?

Did she tell you anything about whet she was going

1191

t201

I211

I221

A

Q

No. About her conversation with bin?

Yes, anything that he said to her.

A You need a la r.

Q Anything else awG

I dont ’ remember.

ut what she said to him?

I231 A

Q

No; I dont’ remember anything else.

$:ido you mean by it?

When you say she told Vernon Jordan about it. what

Page 61

t11 A

121 Q

That shed received a subpoena. ’

Just tell us again everything that you remember

t3jwhat she said about that conversetion with.VeF Jordan.

I41

151

Aa 9:

6

: About tha conversetton with Vernon Jordan?

I61 A I real

[7]me. just that she ha2

dont remember that she ’ shared much with

18 1 he recommended a la

called him and asked for his advice and

[ sjlawyer the next da

er and she was supposed to meet the

ink she said that he was

110 jesawt her to the o ce and make the intrcdudion_%e

oirg to

I 111 the guy he was recommending and her.

tween

t121 .Q And do you know of our own knowledge from your

[ 1x1 conversabons with Monica whether kat ever to&c place?

I141 A

tislagain.

No, I dont remember that we ever talked about ’ that

1161 Q

117 jto

Now, you said that the first time Monica mentioned

ou in the first conversation that she had been subpoeneed

tlejtoestrfy r . tn. the Paula Jones case that she was concerned.

[I 9 1 Can you tell us what she was concerned about?

A I dont ’ rernamtx?r until the second conversetionwe.

i:!ihad that she told me she was concerned. The meson tbet she

122 lwas concerned she totd me was she was concerned about what

tzsjshe would say in her deposition. If she dented any

124 jrelationship with the President in a deposition whethertbet

t25lWOUkt be considered perjury.

Page 56 to Page 61 OlCStarr
Ashley ’ Raines, I&!98 XMAx(11)

3384

Page 62

Ill Q

IZ! A

@ she say anything else?

(31 Q

I J lyou thought?

Did you say anything to her at that time about what

I51 A No. I didnt ’ have an oplnlon.

(6) Q Do you know whether she discussed the subpoena that

I 7 I she received with anvone else other than you and Vernon

i 8 j Jordan?

A I would assume that she told her mother. I dont’

(:zjth~nk that she told me that she told her mother.

Q

i :: 1 she was havin

Did she ever tell you about any discussions that

with Linda Tnpp at about this time?

I131 A 80. The last Id heard her mention Linda Tripp was ’

[ 14 Itelling me that she was going to a Christmas party at her

(l~lhouse.

[I61 1171

AQ Have you ever met Linda Tripp?

LA., I have met her once.

IlEl Q Under what &umstances?

A It was a farewell party for a colleague of theirs

I:z;at the Pentagon at that colleagues motheh home. ’

Q Do you have any knowledge of any relationship I:f ibetween Monica and Linda as to whether they were friends and

r23lthey would talk?

A Yeah, they were friends. She referred to her when

I:::talking to me that she had talked to Linda. The most their

Page 63

[I 1 relafionship that I knew about that she shared with me was

12 1 trading diet secrets and talk+about.-

13l!ell me that Linda had lost a lo. of weighr

ou know, she would

and how she did

(4 1 It. and Monica was encouragin her to do that.

Q

[z 1 relationshi

Do you know w#ether Monica confided in Linda her

x

with the President?

She told me - she told me at some point she had

ii ialso confided in Linda.

Q Do

1 iii her relationship witK

ou koow of anyone else she confided in about

the President besides ou and Linda?

A She told me that she was ta ng to her mother

1:: 1 about the relationship.

ir;.

She was also talking to her aunt.

[I31 Q Do ou know her aunts name? ’

114, A Debtie Finnerman I think is her name.

Q Anyone else?

A I dont think so. Not that she shared with me at ’

il7lleast.

0 Going back to her conversation with Vernon Jordan,

1 :ijdid she indicate to you in any way that she told Vernon

[ zo 1 Jordan about her concerns

A

regardin what she would say?’

I::lifshe tokl me.

I dont remember ’ if sR talked to him about it or

Q Did she ever tell you about any discussions that -

I : : 1 let me take that back. Did she ever tell you that Linda

I

rzs,Tripp had been subpoenaed to testii in the Paula Jones case? /

----

Page 64

111 A I don? rememberthat she shared that with me. No. i

Q Did she ever discuss with you an affidavit that

fiishe. Moni?. si ned in the Paula JOF case?

,

I41 fro. I dont know ’ ansvbout that. Q To your knowledge s e ever tell you that she

:

i 2 idiscuzsed with the President the sbbpoana that she received

: 7 1 to tesiify?

A Actual

i “, i subpoena that she a2

I remember in our conversation about the

ually told ma she had not talked to the

( I o 1 President about it, and she was upset he hadnt called to see ’

[ 111 how she was doing. I think she assumed in her mind that if

[ ~zlshe had told Vernon that Vernon may have told him, so he knew

[ 13 1 but wasnt ’ callin to find out how she was doin Q l%w did she coma to speak to

I ::; how that connection was made?

8emon? Do you know

A She was - as I said before, when she was talking

I :7” i about moving or looking for another ‘ob. she was considering

~191communlcabons and asked the

[ls~movingt~N~wYorkandwork~~in(hefiektofPR~

resident for his hel

[molto find a ob. And from what I understand from her, ‘

m trying

[ 2 11 referred c,er to Vernon and suggested that she talk to him,

[ 22 1 that he could possibly have some connections and be able to

(z3lhelp her.

Q Okay. If

i::isecond conversation wi&

ou can remember, during

her about the subpoena t

Page 65

t I ,menttoned to ou that - I think she said tha! she wished the

12: President hadycalled

[ 3 1 it.

her, that she hadnt ’ spoiten to him about

Do you remember what conversation it was that she said

r 4 : that?

Is1

[61

$ IA;:: the second.

I!’ A The Irst r conversation. we were at a party and she

r 8 1 really just kind of menboned it to me. We ddnt have much ’

[ 9 lof a substantive conversation about it. So thats why I ’

[ I o 1 remember clearly fi was the second because I cant imagine we ’

[ 1 I 1 would have had much of a conversation at a party with a lot

11rlof people around.

[I31 Q Now, durin this whole time, I uess ou know evec

r 14 I- lets start at the time tha ’ 9 Monica worked atBhe Vi&e [ 15 1 House. Did you ever see her with the Presdent?

[I61 A No.

Q

1 :i lever see her with the President?

At any time after she left The White House, did you

i19j A No.

Q You also told us that Monica was thinking of moving

I:y:to New York. How did you feel about her moving?

1221 A I was sad she was goin to be moving. She was a

[23]fIWd Fat I would, you know, do Soua actmbes wrth. go

.p

~24 ItO moves , 0 t0 dinner. those types Of things.

1251 - 8 Now, you mentioned a moment ago that she had so

Page 66

[ 1 ldisatssion with the President about getting a job in New

[2,YOrk.

[31 A Yes.

I41 Q Can ou tell us about that?

A She x

i z ;.ob that he would know people that ghe couid talk to or refer

ought, I guess if anybody can help her get a

~7 1 her to people. And I think over several months she had

[ 8 1 conversatiqns about the whole job search with him and looking

191for something to do, you know, that she realty wanted to do.

Q Do you know how Vernon Jordan became involved in I :y i her job search?

A Well, a

I::;He suggested Vernon 3

ain. she asked the President for his help.

ordan, that he would have the contacts

I 14 I and somehow the two of them began a conversation about it.

1151 Q The two of them being she and Vernon?

El61

I:l;in terms of helping

A She;rdfi;;T;,$s.

,,

0 Do ou know an hing that Vernon Jordan did for her

A She told me I Ihink that he taked to some people

i:iiat some firms and set up interviews for her o( sug ested that

rzlltheytalktoher.Thebottomlinewasthatshehac?

122 J interviews with some companies that he recanmended.

Q

I::ipart to get a job at the United Nations?

Did she ever discuss with you any efforts on her

1.751 A Yes. shedii.

Page 67

111 Q

A

Dii she tell you how that came about?

121. That one I dont remember ’ &arty who was involved [ 3 J tn omversatiins, but at some point in her job search (4 1 disarssions before Vernon Jordan was invofved, the President

151 had talked to Marsha Scott about hel t a ob‘

P. E!x*.

ing her John [ 61 Podesta. and I think even she was ta king to tty ume

[71about the whole job search situation. At any rate. someone

[ 8 I had referred her to Bill Richardson, and it may have been

[ 9 J Podesta. but Im not sure who that actually was. ’

0

i:ylto’ the United Nations.

For the record. hes the United States Ambassador ’

I121 A To the United Nations, yes.

I131 Q And did she eventuallv meet with Mr. Richardson to

i 14 j your knowledge?

I151 A

1161 Q

Yes. she had told me that she had met with him.

And do you know where that took place?

I171 A No, I dont. Actually. I only recall a ’

(18 J conversation o the phone. Im sure that she did meet him in ’

~19~person but I -

[201 Q

1211 A

But you dont ’ know?

I dont remember. ’

I221 0 Do you know what the results of that particular job

[231search at the United Nations were?

A She said that they had - they rim

i::ijob. that she wasnt sure that that was really ’ wha P

ly offered a

she

OIC-Starr Page 62 to Page 67
3385

BSA Ashley Raines, U29/96 XMAXW)

Page 68

i 1 Iwanted to do. She really was focused on wanting to be rn PR [ 2 I communicatt0r.s.

I31 0 Drd she end up accepting any particular job offer [I I that you know of,

!5j A Yes. Revlon was the corn

I 6 lshe had been offered a job and acceptecf?

any that she told me that

[I‘ Q You told us you know that at some point she had I 9 I contacted Vernon Jordan

i9i A Yes.

Q

1 :yifirst hear that stre had contacted him?

Was -when did she tell you that? When did you

I121 A I dont remember a time ’

I=

nod, but I dont think ’

t13jthat its been a very long period of time hat she ’ s ’ known

r14jhim.

1151 Q Drd his name come up in either the first or the

t16jsecond conversation that she had wrth you about the subpoena?

1171 A Yes. because she told me that she had contacted him

i 18 jasking for his advice on the subpoena, and he had recommended

r19)a lawyer.

I201 Q And as to any involvement that Mr. Jordan had in

I 2 1 I her iob search. do YOU remember whether that took place after

t22jtheseconversaboris about the subpoena were before anything

rz3jelse?

1241 A The fb search had taken place before the

tzs)conversations with er about -

Page 69

[II 0 So he was helping her with her job search before

t2~she had discussions about the subpoena?

t31 A Oh yeah. Yes.

Q Did she ever sa

i!.ithat. I takithah:ck. Do you z

anything to you about - strike

now who Bayani Nelvis is?

t61

I71 Q Have you heard that name?

I81 A No. -

191 Q Did you ever hear Monica mention the Presidents’

rio~St+wd, the wader. the prson who brought him, you know,

111 Idnnks, breikfavi;hings lake that?

I121

t131 Q What do you remember Monica telling you about him?.

t141 A Oh. say his name again.

I151 Q Ba anr Nelvis. Hes ’ known as Nel.

I161 A Ne( yes. Thats why I didn ’ t recognize it. I ’ ve’

[ 17 1 been trvina to think of his name. I can onlv think of one of

t 18 ithestewa& names and I knew that wasnt him. She had a ’

t~sjfriendship with him. He would get her M 8 MS when she -

rzolyou know we ive those out as trinkets to

t21jcometofheL&’rte House. We give tham o peep kids or something.

iewhenthey

tzz jTheyre’ in a box with the presidential seal. And I think

tz3jthey had just a regular friendship. I dont know how it ’

(24 jdeveioped.

I251 Q Do you know if she ever had any discussions with

Page 70

I 1 J Mr. Nehris. Nel, known to you as Nel. about the President?

Not that I remember. I would think it would only

1111 A Yes.

1121 Q Im going to ask you ’ tf

[I 3 jyou and Lisa, who you mentioned eax

ou recall an incident when

rer. your roommate. were

[ 14 1 at the Old Executive office Building and you ran into the

[ 1s 1 President with Catherine Cornelius.

I161 A

Q

I was with my roommate Lisa yes.

Do

K

ou remember an hrng about that particular

! :i 1 incident? p;ghptograph taken at day?

[I91

1201 Q Andwhpwasinthefotqgra$3.

A It was krnd of as we were wa 4 past him so I

I:: 1 have a picture shaking his hand and I think Lisas picture ’ ’

[ 23 ] was either as they were either cbming to or coming a R

[241 Q Is Catherine Cornelius also in those

I251 A I think she may be in the backgmun

gCos?

, yeah.

Page 71

Cl1 Q And do you recall whether you ever showed those

[: 1 photos to Monica?

I31 A Probably. I probably would have. An [I 1 I had with the Presrdent were ktnd of novel. I mean tL

photos that

ey

[slwere neat thongs to have, so I probably would have showed

16 1 them to her.

171 Q Do you recall any reaction on Monrcas’ part to

~9 lseeing thoF photos rf you notrced any?

I91 She may have made a comment about Cathenne.

[lOI 0 What kind of comment?

Q

~:~~son-rs of the Grand Jurors will as well.

Each of us has a few questions for you and maybe

Did

I::ishe went with r

ou ever hear or did Monica ever tell you that

he President to see a movie in the movie [ 2 4 1 theater at The White House?

1251 - A No, she didnt.’

Page 7 2

[II Q Did you ever hear about any time when Monica

~2 jwatched a movie wrth the President in that theater?

t31 A No, I didnt.’

141 Q Okav. When is the bst time that you talked to

tsjMonica? .

t61 A She balled me Tuesday last week and -

171 Q

A -Tuesday of last week and said 

“H! Give me just one second. PAUSE Oka , Continue.

Ii ; Monica. Can you take some information from my l&ye

Ashh, its’

And

[loIshe handed the phone to her lawyer who identified himself as

11 I 1 Bill Ginsberg and the name of his company a phone number to I 12 1 reach him to aive to anvone that may be calling me about

tl3jMonica. -

Cl41 Q And did he say anything to you about whether you

tls]shouM call him?

t161 A No,, no. It was i the context of referring anyone

j17)who calls me to hrm rfthe

118.1 Q

have any questions about Monica.

A I JUS sad okay. ‘ Okay.’ He cau ht me off guard.

Qkar AnJ did you agree to that)

:::;I had no idea why they were calling me. so I just ock the

t21jinformation.

t2s)youre’ a good friend of hers.’

Page 7 3

11 lthe essence of be careful. That wasnt his exact words, but ’

t2 1 that was m

(r

recoIledin of basically what @s was tellin

t:iAbout a little Over two years.

Okay. Now, qou knew Momca roughly 8

ma.

r how bng?

I51 A Two years.

t61 Q During the course of your relationship or based on, [ 7 1

K

ou know, the tan

1st er, do you cons er her to be general k?

th and the depth of our relationship with

A

;I a tmthful person?

t:il)herI do.

I do from my experience with her and dealings with

1111 Q Do you find that in ywrreliiinsh

I 12 I she mostly tells the truth, sometii tells the hutR‘

with her that

[13]somethng else? I mean, how would you describe ihe

I 14 1 truthfulness in our cnvn words?

1151 A &he was very open and forthcoming from my

[16]perqxC&& in What She Would tell me.

Q

I :i ; her. do you know whether it was inscribed?

The book on - that you told us the President gak

1191 A

I201 Q

NO, I dont remember that, no. ’

Have you disarssed our presence here today, y&r

t21jtestimony toda wrth anyone at The White House?

I221 A {es I have.

I231 Q And who did you discuss it with?

A Some ofthe ple in my oft%43 know that Im not ’

I:: i there, that lTLe been having o leave to go to meetings and pe”

Page 68 to Page 73 OlCStarr
q Sd

Page 74

[ 11 thongs. m boss certain1

I 2 1 advrsed txe Counsels’ k

and the deputy In my ofhce, and I

o ice as I assume that were supposed ’

! 3 I to when we aet subooenas or have been contacted bv - for

i4 j legal proceei!!rn 5.

:51 Q aid

ii; A I unJ

ou meet wrth anyone from the Counsels 0ffrc-e

erstand that I may need to talk to my la

: 7 1 that there m,ay be some privilege issues on answering any ov?er*

: 3 1 these quesonsYe:a;utt o talk to her?

:91 I o t the auestlons wouldl be

%efore you go iet me just tell you what

i:i] A That would be hel ful.

:i21 MR. WISENBERG: e/by dont we just wait and until ’ -

I : 3 1 to do that until weve asked all of our other questions. ’

:141 MS. WIRTH: Sure, we could do that. Sure.

il51 BY MS. WlRTH:

Q Turning back to the time when Monica discussed with

!:76iyou her conversations with Vernon Jordan and that he had

i 18 1 referred her to a lawyer, did she ever discuss with you who

[I. 9 1 wouldpay?r thata,laNy.er, any payment arrangements?

I201

I211 MS. WIRTH:

[22]do yours.

I dont have anymore questions. We can ’

I231 MR. WISENBERG: Do ou want to go next?

1241 MR. BINHAK: Go aheaa

r251 BY MR. WlSENBERG:

Page 75

(11 Q

rz]days ago?

You were served with a Grand Jury subpoena a few

I31 A Last week.

141 Q

i 5 j interview -

And when YOU were served, is that when you had an

I61

I1’ Aa Yes:

iiigiven to m lawyer an 1 met wrth the FBI tater.

I101

$

- wtth the FBI or was it later?

The,subrna was delivered 16 my lawyer - was

In the presence of your tawyer?

[Ill A Yes.

I.21 ’ 0

r13l

You did that voluntarily, correct?

A Yes.

Q You have test&d about the fact that Monica totd

I::lyou that Vernon Jordan was helping her in finding a job, do

[16]you recall that?

1171. A Yes.

Q Was that the first time you recall her mentioning

i:i{Vemon Jordan in the job hunt - in relation to the job hunt?

t201 A Yes, that I can remember, thats the first time. ’

Page 76

1 I ]suggestect that she talk to Vernon.

121 Q This was after you knew about the relationship -

I31

141 Aa Right. - wrh the President? isi A correct.

Q If

I;jrelationship with K

ou had not known that Monica had any kind of

e President or had not been tokf and she

[ 8 1 caked you u one day and said Vernon Jordan is helping me to

rs]find a job. C%en - not meanin3 to insult her in an way,

I 1 o I but given somebody at the leve she was at, wouk!that have

[ 11 ISUrprised you?

I121 !! No.. ._

XMAX(13)

Page 77

[ 1 lthe word we used - about both that Evelyn Lieberman had been

12 1 involved and the reasons for the transfer. Do you recall

[ 3 1 testifying goutYt;zt earlier today?

i41

!5! Q Based on your friendship at the time -this is

[ 6 1 before you had been told about the relationship by Monica I 7 I with the President. correct’

isi A Im sorry? ’

191 Q

I 101 transferred and

That wasnt very artfully asked. When she got ’

ou heard the office talk of her -

I111 A F!ight. Right .

Q

/ ::ileamed from Monica about her relationship with the

-was that at a point in time when you had not yet

[I 4 1 President?

1151 A Yes. Yes.

Q

::76ithat time, did you consider Ms. Liebermans concerns to be ’

At that time, based on your friendship with her at

I ls]credible?

I191 A I had never known them to do something of that

[ 20 1 nat.ure toward any other employee, so Im sure that they had ’

[ 2 11 valid concerns for dorng it.

Q

I::iwith Monica. I think you said you werent as close friends ’

Well, I mean more based on just your interaction

[ 24 1 then as you later became.

I251 A Right. Right.

Page 78

III 0 Based on what you knew about her at the time, how

tzlyoud’ talked to her and seen her,. did it just strike you as

t3]somethrng like that doesnt surpnse me? ’

A Oh, no, it was very surprising. I didnt know ’ he;

i:iwell enough or know her activities. Yes, I would say it was

[ 6lsumrising.

171 Q Did you and Monica ever exchange gifts?

I91 A Yes.

t91 Q How often? What kind of occasions?

A Birthda

i:ylrne something from a np that she went overseas and I would, ty

s, the holidays. On occasion she would buy

c 12 ]you know, buy her things maybe when I would go on a trip.

I131

r,*, .--,

AQ

-Q

D$ you all ever go shopprng together?

I:ziabout buvina somethrna for the President?

b;;any of those occasions did she ever buy or talk

[17i -A- Yes. -

1181 Q Could ou tell us about that?

A A tie. 8he asked m

I:z:nothing about. tf I thought they looi

adviceon ’ ties which I know

tzi 1 look good on televisiin rf

ed good if the’ would

tzz Ithese - I was not ve he 1pful, but I was the?,

ou were far away.’ You znow all

Q AN-% An d

es.

I::iit would be for the ?r&dent?

would she explratr y mention that

t.251 A Yes.

Page 79

Q

I: ishe was talki

And did she buy it on that occasion any tie that

An?

about, or was she just shopping?

i:ithink she bou

remember she couldnt ’ decrde at that

151di purchase &tern

ht to and ended up returning one. I thinp.”‘ I

there when I was there.

she

’

I61 Q

I 7 1 like?

Do you have any recollection of what they looked

..I...--.

I91 A I could possibly pick them out - pick one of them [ 91 out in a picture, but I dont know that I ’ d be very good at ’

tlo]desuibing it.

Q

I::iwereclosetoherina e?

Do you know whether ornot she ever dated men who

I131

I141

$ ;fre ated i men that were close to her in age?

Page 74 to Page 79
BSA

Page 80 Page 83

j 1. as possible. They were a very close family. They support

: I : each other.

3‘ Q Did she mdlcate her mother was upset when she

: learned about the relattonshi 7

.z,

.- A I dont recall ’ tKat she was u set, no.

: i Q How about the aunt? Did sEe ever indicate the aunt

.-was ‘ upset?

[ 11 rf Ive ’ gotten anything wrong - an incident where you went -

12 :- when she toid [ ; ; House uninvrte dy

ou about going to see -

and 9

olng to The White

belog - not being ab e to see the

i 4 President;As th;;Frrect?

15:

161 0 And do you also remember telling her in that

[ 7 i incident about - when she was talking to [a :mcident that she wasnt able first to get a ’ zou about that

old of Betty

XMAx(Y14)

[ e; Cume either when she went there that time?

IIO! A You know, I dont. ’ I remember at some point in

i 111 conversations that she would tell me about wanting to see

112 1 hrm. that rn trying to reach Betty to find out if R was a

I 13 1 good time for her to go that, you know, on one or two

[ 14 1 occasions that she hadnt been able to get a hold of ’ Betty, [ 1 s 1 but I dont ’ rebte it to that incident. I dont know that ’ it ( 161 happened at that time.

I171 0 Do you ever recall her telling you about an

[ 18 1 incident where she went to The White House and wasnt able to ’

I 19 1 see the Prewdent and found out that somebody else had been

120 1 cleared in to see the President a little bit before she had -

[2 I I- another ferna& had been cleared in by maybe 30 minutes, an

[22 1 hour or somethrng before she had been?

[231 A It nngs a bell, but I dont have a very strong ’

124 1 recollection of who or what or when.

(251 - Q Okay. But it rings a bell?

2 A I dont think so. ’

Q Did she ever mdrcate that she told her mother

: iabout ’ her concerns wrth the subpoena - regarding the

: : : : subpoena?

:.-. A I dont remember that she had a conversation with ’

i ;; j me about telling her mother about it, no. I dont recall. ’

:14;no.

::5; Q This friendshi with Nel - the steward named Nel -

::6:- whose nickname was Nel. sId you regard that as unusual in

.:7iany way

:I91

orAjust -

I thou ht it was a little odd.

13; ‘ Q And w9,y is that? lf you can articulate that for us

,zo!why you thought it was a litbe odd?

j2!1 A Well, hes an ’ older man. I

%

uess I didnt think ’

22 1 that they would have much in common. I ont’ have a social

23lrelationshi

6

with the Presidents stewards. I dont know. ’

You mentioned social relationship. As far as you

:: i knew, was that a platonic relationship?

Page 81

[I! A Oh yes, yes.

Q Did she ever express to ou ex

~~~implicitly that Nel could be an atd to herx.tnd o P.n seeing

licitly or

c 4 lthe President or knowin

A

~~~dont’ think

No, I don St- from my understanding of her, I

when the President was available?

she ever woukl have or did talk to him about

r?lwanting to see the President.

rai 0 And why do you think that?

!91 A I know wh J think that, but for - I have that -

[lc;i Q

A

Just a fee r~ng based on our knowled e of her?

An impression from whar she would s

i ii 1 about talking to him and conversations with him.

ftare wrth me

I dont’

~13ithink that that was what her friendship was about with him.

I141 Q What do ou think it was about?

A Getting

;::;Truthfully. I -

hz8 Ms to give to friends of hers. ’

Q Okay. Dii she ever mention to you that she might

I fi lcall Nel just to find out how the Presidents doing or what ’

t~s$ips he mi ht be on or thi

R n?

s like that?

I201 No, not that recall.

Q

i::;Nel. and YOU have no idea if Nel was aware of the

So you have - you dont think she ’ would have told

tz3jrebtionshi ?

t241 6i I wouldnt think ’ 50. but again, I, wouldnt know. ’

I251 Q Well, I asked a two-part question. That was dumb.

Page 82

111 A Oka

I1’ Q Firs{ you wouldnt think that she would tell Nel? ’

I31 A No, IwouldnI_ ’

141 Q

tslquestion.

Ive already forgotten the other ’ part of the

I61 A I have no knowledge that she told him.

171 Q Thank vou. iai A Im ’ ettin good at this.

(91 Q

[lolaware?

An8youaont’ think he was aware - that Nel was

1111 A Not that I know of.

Q Were you - have you been aware at an time before

r :: 1 the events of the last - before this has become news dy. unng

[ 1 I 1 the last week or two, were you aware of - aside obviously -

[1s]we have what Monica told you. But other than what Montca

[ 161toM you. were

Hy

OU aware at an (17 1 in The White ouse or the OE&

the of rI.rmOrs going around

[I a 1 Monica an;theNFident?

about a relationshtp between

1191

[L?O! Q You mentioned that she was concerned in - she was (I 1: concerned about getting the subpoena in the Jones case, did

[ 22 1 that concern seem genuine to you?

[231 A

Q

Yes, it did

You talked about an incident that - where - I

I::idonr want to misremember your testimony, so you correct me

Page 84

[II A

0

Yeah. it does.

You mentioned the calls from -you mentioned the

I : i discussion with Monicas attorney the last time you spoke ’

I 4 lwith Monica. correct?

isi A. Uh-huh.

[61 Q He said refer - he said to refer any calls he got [ 7 1 about Monica to him?

[ai MS. WIRTH:

[91 THE WITNESS:

That she got.

That I got.

[lOI BY MR. WlSENBERG;

[Ill Q

1121 A

~-ZI,I~IJ ‘ got to him?

ii3j Q

A

Were you at work or your home?

[I41 I was at work.

1:?5iof calls

0 All right. What - do you have any idea what kind

he was talking about?

A

~:~~calling me.

No, but within an hour or two the press starting

[I91 Q Did

r

ou refer them to him?

I201 A

I211 Q

No, didnt ever mention this. ’

He s not

A

our lawyer, is he?

(221 Absolute not.

Q

il

Okay. The - I just want to

:::;I think you rn@ht have already answered. I&n

dear on one thing

she first told [ 2 5 J you about the relationship whrch she had wtth the President

Page 85

rllwhereshewasdescribi howithadbeen didshesayata

r2lperiodwhenshehadwo“4, edinTheWhitekarse,didshesay

r3lwhere she was when she got called? In otherwords, was she -

I 4 J - yoube told * at some point about calls she would get even

[ 5 Iverytate at n

t6lin her office z&e

ht. Did she ever say she was ako sometii

n he would call?

You said that Monica totd you they would go into

she went into the stud

the Oval Oftice and tk t&t

did she sa they

en go into

rl3lthe studv.

You have to go through the Oval Offtce to get to

ii4i _ Q I quess YOU would have to meet there then?

iisj A Ye. -

I161 Q

A

Un ess he was already in the study. 7

[171

Q

Yeah, but I dont think that was ever the case. ’

I :i i described to you that way that she would iust walk into

You don? have any recollection of lt bein

8 e

t 20 J study?

1211 A No. No. I dont think so. ’

1221 Q You satd that in early 1997 Monica told you that

t23lthe relationshp had ~surned; is that cone@

I241

I251

$ Fe;y 97, is that what you sard?

Page 80 to Page 85--~ ~~~---~ OlCSfarf
3388

BSA Ashley Raines, 1129198

III

I21

! 3 1 about summer

rslbreak I

A Yes.

ou said that in, if understood you correct, In

the President told her that he wanted to

It off and still - but still have a mentoring type

is that correct?

Page 86

Well. he didnt use those words, that ’ s what ’ I -

0 Gathered7

A - viewed their relationship to be. the mentonng

i3ltw

I:01 Q

A

In spite -

I111 And a friendship nonetheless.

[I21 Q Pardon me for cutting you off.

I131 A Thats okay. ’

i ::irelationshi

Q How long did she tell ou in actuality the

including the physical re 7.abonshlp, went on?

.[I61 g I think it -I mean it continued.

[I71 Q All through 97? ‘

I181 A Uh-huh.

1191 Q All right.

[ZOI A

Q Didsheiru!ca

Although s oradic and infrequent. I te to you that It was not as frequent

I::ias it had been during the time period when she worked in The

1 z 3 1 White House?

i :: i The

A

White

That was always my assumption that after she left

House it wasnt as frequent. ’

Page 87

Q

!:ifriend to vou?

Would you consider her to be a loyal and supportive

I think Im-done. I don ’ t promise that I ’ m done. ’

[IO1 A Can I clarify one thing?

[Ill Q Yes. Sure.

A Im ’ sorry. Before you people ask questions. The

I :: i last question before the break when you were talking about my

[ 14 1 roommate Lisa and the piciures,.did you ut Monica in that

115 1 situation? Did ou ask that Momca was

MS. &IRTH:

Rere and that -

No. I asked whether Monica ever saw

I :7” i the pictures and what was her reaction.

THE WITNESS:

I:i;that Monica was there.

I couldnt remember if you had said ’

[TOI BY MR. WISENBERG:

Q Was she upset that Catherine Cornelius was in that

I:: 1 picture? Did she get upset when she saw Catherine Cornelius?

A I dont know that I would say she was upset. She ’

i :ii asked why she was there, what she was doing.

1251 MR. BINHAK: I just have about seven questions, so

Page 88

[ 11 I wont take ve ’

THE%lTNESS:

much of your time.

t : ; hadnt said the number. ’

It would have been better if you

I41

IkzELw Then 111’ ask them in two parts and it

I ~~will be three-and-a-half uestions.

I71 THEWlTNES%:

181 BY MR. BINHAK:

Okay.

Q You said that the President - that Monica would

; iii call the President duri this relationsh’ and -

A

;::;right?

Q

I didnt.? said she ’ woul?call Bes..

She would try to call the Presiden In other words,

I141 A Through Betty.

I151 Q Did the Plesldent give her access to The White

[ I 6 1 House ever time she called?

I171 A I dont think so. No. ’

I :iitell

0 Dii you ever hear from Monica - did Monica ever

ou that she kept or had tapes of her conversations with

rzolthebresident?

I211 A Ta s of her conversations with the President?

I221 Q fithe President on the telephone?

I231 A No.

Q She didnt tell ’

I::;machine tape of the Presiden r

ou that she had an answering

?

Page 89

- A Yes. .^. 0

.<. about that?

Why dont you tell the Grand Jury what you heard ’

4‘ A I - she played the tape for me. There was onty

J: one, but I remember - do you want me to recall what I think

.c,he said?

Q Yes.

A First of all. d was In a whisper. It sounded like

.-l;him. but again it was in a whisper so I cant be sure. And ’

::: : he said from what I remember Hello, are you there? ‘ Pi& up

::::Come on, pick u I must have missed ou.” or somethlng of

; 12 ; that nature, and hen he said some wor P LI.llke drats or kind of

;: jj a silly word that he used to explain that he must have missed

~24 1 her. And thats all I remember. ’

!:5: Q Was that on an answering machine that had a

ii6iCassette tape in it or -

1171 A

Q

Yeah, it was one of those little tapes.

/::;home when she played that?

So you actually. then - did you - were you at her

[201

I211

[::I

[231

A Y&s.-

Q So, then, you actually saw this tape?

A Uh-huh.

Q So at one time this tape existed?

I241

1251 --

A Yes.

Q And did that - did hearing that, did that lend

Page 90

r:lcredibility to the story that Monica Lewinsky was telling

r21you?

I31 A Yes, kind of - it was still a whisper, so I guess

relit could have been someone impersonating him, but I had no

[ 5; reason to believe that it was&t_

t6lhlm.

I mean it sounded like

Q

Iiishe was or at least conve

Okay. You told the Grand Jury that Monica told you

[slabout the subpoena from he people involved in the Paula r

ed to you that she was concerned

1101 Jones litigation correct?

[::I A (/es.

[Xl Q Did she ever tell you what she intended to do at

[13lthe deposition or what she intended to sa ?

Il4! A No, because in her mind I hink she was still 1

[ISI tryin to deal with the fact that she had a deposition and

1161was 9tying to work through the whole situation.

0

I:ilthe situation of going to a

And when you sa the whole situation, do you mean

depos&n

[lglunderstoqd that they were

120 I relationshlp with the Pres&

oing to be aski

in genTI or that she

her about her

nt and she didn want to say?

[zl]What do you mean the wt~ole situation?

A

I$as concerned that if in a deposition if she denied that she

Well, as I said previously she mentioned to me she

(24 lhad a relationship with the President if that would be

tzslconstdered pequry. That was her cOncem that she relayed to

Page 91

Illme.

Q

I:iissue in her mind?

But she didnt ’ tett you that she resolved that

[4l A No. Uh-uh.

I51 Q WhatdidyousayI61 A

17 1 lawyer.

Because at that point she hadnt even met with a ’

Q

i$he had told Linda Trip about IS

rlolreiationshi

1

What d; you sa&!u&$l;;;e$$sky told you tha

she had w h the Pres‘ nt?.

What did she tell me?

_

1111

1::jto that?

Q No, but what did you say? What was your reaction

I141 A I was of course surprised that she would even share

r15lit with me much less anybody else.

rl6lhad any comment to make on 1

I dont remember that I ’

I canr recall though.

1171 .Q And youve told the Grand Jury about those ’

t~alcon~ersat!ons. that you had with Monica Lewinsky about her

[lg@attonsh~p\?rrth the President. her intimate relationship

12owth the President. the phonecalls and the visits, did you

[21lhav~ other conversations with Monica Lewinsky, or dtd this

tzzlsub]ecI completely dominate everything that you talked about?

A

i::ldefinitely other conversations.

No, I would have gone crazy. NO, there were

1251 Q Okay. Would you say this was a small portion of

olcstarr Page 86 to Page 91
Page 92

: : j the total conversations that you had as friends?

[Zi A

:3f

Yes.

Q You mentioned Mr. Podesta before. Can you just

: 4 iquickly tell the Grand Jury who he is?

A John Podesta is one of the Deputy Chiefs of Staff

j 2 i at The White House whos in charge of basically the ’

7 1 operations side including my office.

Fs!htm.

My office reports to

0

Ii ii Lewinsky was

And then you told the Grand Ju that Monica

ettrng help from Mr. Podesta inxer Job hunt?

A 7 think indrrectly. I think the President byrng

iii 1 to helD her meant talk to Podesta. I dont know that Monica ’

i;jiever had a conversation with him.

Q

I: :; help was tpu

Okay. So you think that the reason she got this

h her relahonshrp wrth the President?

,161 % rom mv understandinq from her. yes. .--.

[I71 Q And - .

A Wail a minute., Say that question again. Was

i :iibecauseo&herFizationship wrth the President?

I201 A Well because she had asked the President for

r::{and they were friendly. The had a relationship. Im not ’

[231sure exact what you -

I241 8 Thats what ’ I meant.

~251 A Okay.

l=lP

Page 95

11; (Grand Jury Exhibit No. AR-1

I-1‘ was marked for identification.)

(31 BY MR. WISENBERG.

14: Q

[ 5 1 Ms. Lewinsky?

And Im going to ask you did you receive that from ’

16: A- Yes, I did.

iTI Q And could you read it lease to the Grand Jurors.

19: A Do I have to read the ront. too. or iust the P

Q

I::ithe Big Creep?

Do you know who she was talking about when she said

1251 .‘ A Yes.

Page 93

Q You were - when Ms. Wirth asked you about Nel or

I: i Bayani Nelvis. you said that youd known there was another ’

c 3 1 steward. How did you know - do you know who the other

[ 4 1 steward is?

I51 A Yes.

t61 Q

A

How do you know the other steward?

Because in our office we kind of mana

ii; trinkets that the stewards take on trips with the Presk!

e the

ent

19 1 to give to people. so he comes by our office.

I101 Q So you dont know him through ’ Monica?

I:11 A No.

I121 Q Oka

AJURO d:

And thats all the questions I have. ’

I131 Whats ’ the name of the other steward?

[I41 THE WITNESS: The name of the other steward?

I151 BY MR. BINHAK:

Q Just for the record, whats the name of the other ’

i::;steward? _ _. __

Cl81 A cjien Ma s.

1191 MR. WISENBtRG:

MR. UDOLF: After

Bruce do you have a uestion?

1201 BY MR. WlSENBERd

ou take care of the su IIpoenas. i

1211

I::;

Q Let me show you a couple of documents, and Id ’ like

ou to identify them. The first appears to be a card with a

tz4 1 r;ates number that presumably our attorneys have

tzslcard. and this was a card from 4 . P

on the

onrca to you; is tha

I

Page 94 I

[l]cQrrect?

A Yes. I

changed or altered in /

I

I

- Bates? Yeah. Actually, I said that it

r9lapwars -

I 1101 A And that. I

Q Actually, I said that

I::; have ut some Bates numbers on

P*

!

tlslthat. t s just as likely that we did, but there are

I

I

114 1 numbers so. I 1151 A Uh-huh. I

Aside from Bates stamps on there, the card has not /

Q What I call Bates numbers - and there is also a

~:09~009 over tFre;Tethat correct?

I211

1221 0 All right. Im ’ goin

[ 231 number on the back of this, and a

to put a Grand Jury exhibit

(24 1 Grand Jury Exhibit AR-l.

m going to mark this as

t251 !

/

Page 92 to Page 97

Page 96

[II Q Who would that be?

[21 A I referenced that she nicknamed the President the

(3 1 Big Creep.

I41 Q Do you know who the Little Creep was?

I51 A Yes, I do.

[Cl Q Who was that?

[71 A

0

A man that she had another relationship with.

I”,iif YOU recocmize this.

Now let me show you another document and ask you

rioj ’ A Yes.

[111 0 Is that also among the things that were provided to [ 12 1 us through your attorney pursuant to our subpoena?

Cl31 A Yes.

I141 Q And Im oin to mark ’ that 2.

MR. WISENB%R8: I :z;this document AR-2.Let the record reflect Im marking ’

1171 (Grand Jurv Exhibit No. AR-2 iiej tias mark& for identification.

I191 BY MR. WISENBERG:

I201 Q Would you agree with me that Ive marked that AR-27 ’

I211 A Yes.

I221 Q And could you te!! us. first, what kind of document

t23lthat is. and then 111’ ask you an&&r question about it?

$Zirnail account.

A Thisisan~atomyboyfriendfrommyworkePage 97

Q And could you read the message that you sent to

I:; him? We dont have to know ’ hs name just the message, you

I 3 I know. that YOU sent.

i:iima!dealATu~~~~~~~~~~~~~i~~~ helped a

[61 onica. Im glad ’ I rdnt’ keep m dose contact with her

[ 7 1 over the last month, because she told me

ts lmessed. And when she sa

se was pretty

191 Q

that, its ’ sea

Do you reca I what r - first o all. this e-mail I-y [ I o lwould have been sent before - would this have been sent. if

t 11 I you recakA~fo+~~~our conversabon about the subpoena?

1121

[I31 Q A l l ht. Do you know -do you remember what she _

rllrlwasmessedup-w“3, atshewasrnessedupabout?

1151 A She was goi

tl6lsituation at this time. And zat

through the who& job sear-oh

Iassumedbertobe I 17 1 referencing was

[ 18 1 shes been, you ’ &

oing to interviews, trying to

now, having problems over F

tajob,ancl

e last several

rlg]monthstrylngtofindajobandbokforaob..AndIdidnY ’

[ 20 1 really

9

uestion her as to really %buttl!atwasmy I 2 11 unders anding of what she was re

Q

mng to.

And we all know email messages are sometimes sent

i::;off the cuffAwith;za; great deal of thought.

1241

I251 Q Whaiif anything did you mean when you said “It ..

olc-starr
3390

SSA Ashley Raines, 1129198

Page 98

: gels pretty sea

A %e!j. I didnt mean she was ’ sea

when shes messed up? ’ ”

I up, but she - Momca 1s an emotional person. x

when shes messed ’

nd when I say

: emotional, I mean sentimental. We go to movies and rt

: touches me and she cries. You know, it - so she was easrly

’

!ouched by people and sduations and that is what I was

refernn to IS that rf she was having a difficult time that

= t must e% drfhcutt for her. She must have some, you know,

: problems

Q When she was havino a - Im ’ sor~v. I cut YOU off. :._ I. I

,-- A Thats okay. ’ ”

i:Z. Cl men she was having a difficult time as your

r 1-: fnend. did It mean more time for you, I mean

i Ii. ut in more work helping her through it as pa

oud have to ’

; : 5 kndship?A

ityof the

I donY know. It depended on the time that I had, i jl:because I also - Im a very busy ’ - my job r

r;s.time and I do have bovfriend and other frien7

uires a lot of

s. so she would

i ?$:want to talk more than-l could give her sometimes, if that

I2::answers your ueation.

I-:: Q qThe - did she ever tie - in any of her

r:2:conversations about job hunting, did she ever tie a job to

r25:something that she wanted from anybody in -let me rephrase

[24:that.

[25: Was there ever any connection between the job and

Page 99

1: :anything else an

: -. In other words dybod

y wanted her to do at The White House?

rd she ever tell ou so and so wants me to

i;jtake a job -to$ke ’ this job. be i!the U.N. job or the

[s:for me? Anything ever tke at?

[ 4 : Revlon jobA but;,” not ynkto do rt yet unbl they do X

16:

[7: Q When was your - was the second conversation about IS ;the subpoena in the Jones case the last conversation you had

1 g:wrth her beAforezoe call with her attorney?

110:

1::: Q

i 1:: her before

What would be the last conversation you had with

this became very public news?

113’ A The week before, like Tuesday or Wednesday, we

114 jtalked on the phone and made plans for Friday to have dinner,

[ 15:and at that pornt she told me she had the job -they made

[ 16:the job offer at Revion. and that was the last time.

11:: Q Did she ever get - what happened on Friday? Did

tls!she -

A I

i:ilrnake dinner an8

ot a very mysterious page that said she couldnt’

Q

wed make other plans. ’

Did she ever have a chance to talk to you before -

I:: iafter that Ffore it became public?

I23!

[24i

Q e;T 2d.J

135: A Oh, Im sorry, no. I forgot where I was. ’

Page 100

Q

ii jattomey on?

And the day she called, she immediately put her

13’ A Yeah . ..I

i4: Q

[5;put him on?

She just said Will you talk to my attorney? ‘ ” and

16;

[7;

A Yeah.

Q I just want to - and she never indicated to you

I e lone wav or the other whether or not Mr. Jordan knew about her

i 9 j d&mm&, her concern about being subpoenaed in the Paula

(1 o i Jones case?

t111 A Not that I remember.

[12!. Q Do

113 1 rncjdent involvin l!

ou ever remember her telling you about any

baanor Mondale?

114; A &anor Mondale? I remember her telling me about

(15 1 someone that the President jogged with when he was in

1 lr.]California. I dont know if ’ that was Eleanor Mondale or not.

Q Do you - you recall that it kind of rin

I :i i if I remember correctty- a while back you testified t

s a bell,

4at it

119 1 n

r2o:az!

s a bell, an incident where she went to The White House

couldn t get tn and found out somebody else, another

I 2 11 female, had been cleared n before. There s connection in

1: 2 ! your mend between that incident and Eleanor Mondale?

(23: A I could have been her. but no, I donY recall.

124: Q Oka I think thats all I ’ ve got. ’ An

1251 MR. U&: I have a few more ques ?jyIon. else?

Page 101

::I BY MR. UDOLF:

(2: Q Ms. Rarnes. my name is Bruce Udolf. Im ’ atso with

: 3 1 the Ofhce of the Independent Counsel. I just have a few

! 4 1 more queshons for ou

ii‘ COURT REPORTER:

!6] its ’ not pickrn u on the ta e.

Can you just come a lrt% closer,

I1’ MF?&OLF. III right .

191 MR. BINHAK: Bruce, why dont you sit here ’

!3i BY MR. UDOLF.

(101 Q YOU said she told you about someone the President

: 1~ 1 jogged with out in California?

1121 A Yes.

I131 0 What did she tell you about that?

(141 A She told me that shed read ’ - I dont know ’ d she

[ 15 1 saw - shed seen pictures that he had gone jogging with a ’

[ 16 1 woman that he had had dinner with or had been at some event

[ 17 1 with the nrght before at the hotel he was staying at. I

[ 18 1 think he was staying in a hotel. And that they went jogging

[ 19 1 the next momrng. and there was a report - or there was no

tzojreport that she left the hotel before they went ogging. ‘

t211 Q Was she concerned about tha ?1

1221 A

Q

I wouldnt use the word concerned, she was ’ -

I231 What was her reaction to that news?

~241 A I dont know. She just was ’ - she wasnt’

[ 2 s l surprised, she was - can you give me some adjectives and

Page 102

t I I Ill’ say if its the way she was feeling. ’

I21 Q

I dont know ’ -

A

Why was she telling you this?

I:iabout. so it -

She WOUM just tell me things that she would read

I51 Q About when was this, do you know?

I61 A No. I dont.’

Q You indicated that there were two conversations in

~~~which you all talked about her being subpoenaed in the Paub

191 Jones case.

I101 A Uh-huh.

[III .Q And then Mr. Wrsenberg just asked ou about the I 12 1 convenatron that took place on a Wednesday and

t13jcanceled on that Frida

Ken she

I141 A

[I51 .Q

Yeah. t was Tuesday or Wednesday. Y

Other than those conversations, were there any [ 16 I conversatrons between the two conversations where you taked

[ 17 I about the subeoenaA Uh-huh.

and the diner dat

r conversations?

8 s+ anything ?

i25j A Ye%.

Page 103

Q

I: ! pint it down first of all.

How many times did you talk to her - well. Ws

131 A Okay .

I41 Q

and

~:~~ riahti

After she got subpoenaed, you said

ou talked about the subpoena although 1

ou saw her at a

was very

t7j - A Uh-huh.

[El Q

A

Do you know about when that was/

I91

Q

It was the Saturday before Christmas.

I:y;after that. Do ou rememberwhen thatwas? _

And I understand you talked to her on the phone

1121 A bell then the next day we got together and

rl3lexchangedChristrn&l-lanukkah

I 14 I Hanukkah for her, that Sunday. a

ifts. Chnstmas for me

tls~vacatlon the next day.

nd then I left for Chris&nas

I161 Q And is that when you had the conversation that you I 17 I told us about earlien

[I81 A The second conversation.

1191 0 The second conversation.

1201 A That Sunday.

I::ithat?

Q All right. Drd you see each other again after

1231 A Yes.

t241

1251

AQ vfnn. did you also talk on the phone after that?

OlCStarr -- Page 98 to Page 103
3391

Page 104

Ill Q And how many times did you see each other?

I21 A Do you want me to go through each one?

!31 Q I guess.

14i A I can coun: them. I can try and count them.

i5j

i5!

: 7 1 anything

!81

i91

!101

Iill

[ 12 1 includes

1131

Q All right.. go ahead. I

A Does an

ty

one have a calendar or checkbook or

just to look at For-n;;$h of January?

A JUROR:

THE WlTNESS

BY MR. UDOLF

No, 98. Thank you. ‘

Q For the record, youre looking at a calendar that ’

December of 1987 -

A January 1998

i14i Q and-.

I151 MR. WISENBERG: 1997.

[161 BY MR. UDOLF:

Cl71 Q Ive lost 10 ’ ye&s. Between December of 1997 and

[ 18 1 January of 1998?

1191 A I believe it was four times.

Q Okay. And were those purely social? Those were

[:i i personal visits where you saw each other one on one?

1221

17-41

; pk,rrt of the srtuabons were groups -

.--,

[24l

I251

A - in public places.

Cl Did you discuss this issue at all?

Page 105

A Not that I remember. The last conversation was the

I:;- that I remember was the second one that I refer to.

Q So between the second conversation where you told

/:ius about where ou discussed the subpoena and the time ou

rslwere contacted $ Mr. Ginsberg - or by Monica first then I&.

[ 61 Ginsberg and tha conversation, did you have occasicn to

f7]discuss with Monica at all these issues related tp the Jones

[ 8 1 case or possible subpoena or deposition?

A Not that I remember because in each situation we

[:,;were ‘ in a public place or in a restaurant and sitting at the [ 11) bar where there were lots of

[ 12 1 ima ine that we would have

9

P

ople around, so I cant’

ad another conversation about it,

[ 13 1 and dont remember having another conversation. ’

Q Okay. You toM us earlier that you had mentioned

I ::ithis to your mother what Monica had told you about her

[~slrelationshi

(171 g

witbey President; is that rght?

I181 Q

A

Is there anyone else you mentioned it to?.

E:z;just his wanting to ge to knew me and my

My bopnd. I referred on ve&&sneal~$

tz1lwho was Monica dating and is she seeing anyone, wbicb I. you

tzz 1 know, said that she seei an 0Mer man, referenced it but

r23lnever gave really any kr.rztof details. He, of curse. wanted

rzrltoknowwhoitwas.Isitsomeonelknow? Andwbenbe-I

fzsjcant’ remember if he asked is it the President -

Page 108

I11 Q

A

Did you tell hi?

- but he - basically it came put to where be

i:;understood that that was the person that she bad a

14 1 relationshi

6

with.

151 Anyone else that you would have mentioned it to?

[61 A NO.

0 Did you ever hear from any other sources other than !

IiiMonica that there was a relationship between her and the

r 9 .-.I President? I

I101 A No.

Q You never heard any discussion about it at all

I::laround the office, around The White House er the Executii

f131Gffice Building?

[I41 A No ust in the context of her leaving. ‘

Q Didhonica ever tell you that she had talked to the

I :z;President after she had received her subpoena?

A No because the last conversaben I had wfth her

i :i labout she had not talked with him.

Q Di she ever indicate to you that she had taked

I:z;with the President while he was overseas?

1211 A While he was overseas?

r221 Q Yeah, after she had received the subpoena?

I231 A I dont think so ’

0 You told Ms. Wirth that you dont recall Monica ’

I:: 1 telling you anything about seeing the movie at The White

Page 107

I: House.

;e.

,- A

,: 0 RDi$ou recak her ever telling you that she had

:; : seen the movie Arr Force One?

15: A

Q

We went to the premrer together.

[E:

A

You went to the premier together with her?

r-

! 5. premier.

Well. not premter. I dont know if you ’ d ’ call it a

It was at the Crneplex Odeon on Wisconsin.

Q Did you - did she ever Indicate to you whether she

riz.had been tc~ theNfoamIly theater at The White House?

!I::

[I:: Q Did she ever rndicate to you that she had been

r13:caught, for lack of a better term, either caught, found out,

[I 4 : discovered by any member of The White House staff in a F 15 1 compromising position with the President or in a position

116:that would have revealed the true nature of their

;;g;relationshr No,

Q

I:o&ith ’ her - after she told

Did -was there ever any discussion that you had

ou about - stnke that. After

[ZI ;she told you that she haihad these arran ements with Vernon

[z2 1 Jordan to get a lawyer in connectton with t3,e Jones

[23@eposrtron, did she rndicate to you how she was

t24;for any la

- wz

er that Mr. Jordan was going to refer%9

oin to pay

er o?

1251 No, and she asked me that.

Page 108

II! Q Im sorry? ’

[21 A Mrs. Worth asked me that.

Q

i:;Thats’ all the questions i have. thanks.

Im sorry I might not have heard. I apologize. ’

I51 MR. WISENBERG:

I61 MS. WIRTH: Sure. May l?

l7i BY MR. WISENBERG:

[151 Q Wrth reference to anything?

[I61 A No I dont.’

[I71 MR. WISENBERG: Okay. Shall we sa what the

[18lqi+ions are we want to ask that involve the potentyral

r 19 1 pnvrfege issue and let the witness go talk to her attorney?

t201 MS. WtRlH: Just see rf anybody - does anyone have

1 z 11 any questions that we havent asked? ’

r221 MR. BINHAK: One of the -

1231 MS. WlRTH:

MR. BINHAK:

Di you have a question?

No, what I was going to s

i::!think this -lf the Grand Jurors dont, maybe we shou ’ I?

gest Ls I

go

Page 109

I 11 reveal to her la er what the questions are.

I21 MS. %RTH: This Grand Juror has a question.

I31 MR. WISENBERG:

A JUROR:

We have a question.

i :: anything to you about the ad that she had put in the

I want to know if she mentioned to you

ts]WaShingtOn Post the valentine ad.

171 T HE VJITNESS: she did.

181 BY MR. WISENBERG:

[91 Q

A

What did she say about that?

She told me that she was goin

~:~~andshetoldrnethatshedid

to put in the ad.

[ 12 1 I had seen ft which I hadnt.’ P

uttheadin. S4-easkedmeff

r131And I think she -she also told me that shed told the

didnt even go ’ look at it.

114 1 President that she ut it in there and asked if he had seen

r15lit. And I think that R - she told me that he looked at lt

[16land saw it and the

Q Didyshe ind’

talked about the quote,

1171 rcate whether or not he was happy or

Q

i::;subpoenaed.

Around -this is around the time of being

Page 104 to Page 109 OlCStarr
3392

0s.A Ashley Raines. 1129198 XMAU19)

Page 110

..I .*j A No.

: ,’ 1 MR. UDOLF:

3 1 lawyer.

Why dont we ’ let her go talk to her

.d I MR. WISENBERG:

:51 Q Hold on just a second What were going to do ’ IS.

,c i for the record here, Im ’ gorn

9,

to ati you the questions and

7 1 then ask you to go and spea to your lawyer, and after that

3 ! youll ’ be able to confer wrth lawyer But rather than have

:3you ’ 9.

o out. come in. go back out agarn.Ill’ ask you the

: : 9 1 ques Ions now for the record. You can tell me whether or not

::;you think there might be a privitege Issue. If you want -

: 1: 1 If It would help

Numze

ou. you can wrde them down.

r one would be, Who did you speak to at The

i iii White House Counsels office ’ about your subpoena and

: : 5 1 testimony?

:;61 A Uh-huh.

:;71 0 What did the tell you. the entire discussion you

: : 9 1 had with wLoev~e_

!19j K

yhylkeJto in that regard?

I201 Q Did they refer you to any attorney?

1211

i221

;yo,ry ‘ attorney?

;231 A Uh-huh.

i24) Cl Did they tell you that you were never going to

: 2 5 1 pay - whether somebody would pay for the attorney

Page 111

A Uh-huh.

I51 A

i;;

0

Did they ive me any instruction on -

A reques9 that afler you were done toda you were

1 B 1 B

oing to be debriefed, not by your own attorney but by hem. r

m not interested in any conversabons you had with your own

! 91 attorney. Ms. White, out there.

A That when I was done today that I would be i i p i debriefed or that I would debrief them?

.?I ‘

..- Q Well, you -

i i: 1 arty who

A Yeah, there would be a debriefing. Who was the

;:51 ut yeah, t g ?I

ets - yeah - who ets debriefed Im not sure, ’

ere would be a de&nefing

;:61 MR. UDOLF:

Q And also wed like to know whether or not you ’ re’

iiii paying for the lawyer you have hem today yourself or if

i I 9 1 someone else has made arrangements to pay for him?

(201 A Her.

:211 Q

:i21

1231

;

Exarse me, st$s a she.

~~~oa~~ Ks a male.

1241

i251

BY MR. WtSE%ERG:

0 Heres a question that ’ s not ’ - you dont have to ’

Page 112

I 1 lwrite down because its not covered by ’ a privilege. Has

I 2 1 anvone swoested to vou exolicitfv. inotii. and I dont’

i3imean just ifThe Whife Ho&, I riiean’ any&e, that you should

I a I tell less thrth;oyil truth here today?

I51

[61 Q Anybody implicitly or explicitly threatened ou?

[71 A No. Eve one has encouraged me to tell t e truth.

181 Q Great. A right. .Watl. then well excuse ’ y!u

19 I and ask you to discuss those wrth your attbrney.

i-01

III1

A It will be ust a second. ‘

MR. WtSENBkRG: And well take a very brief break. ’

I::]

ii31

iI41 __ N: Ms. Raines. you are still under

::sloath.

[:61 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

I?71 MR. WtSENBERG:

; ;; ;questioniqF;e&.:

Ms. Raines. we are through with

While Iye were out, let me just say for

i 2 o I the record, two of the Grand Jurors indicated to me that they i 111 have addrtronal questions, brief questjons. that they would

: 22 1 like to ask Ms. Raines, when youre ’ rinished.

1231 MR. WtSENBERG: AU riqht. Were not aoina ’ a

our.

Page 113

MR. WISENBERG:

ii /to be the last one.

Lets go ahead because mines’

BY MR. BINHAK:

.-I 0 The one question was what was your reaction to the

,: j Presidents ’ denral of this publrc - of this rntrmate

: E 1 relahonshr between Monica Lewrnsk

: - lother worB Y

and the President? In

s. the President just recent y dented before the

.s :State of the Unwon Address that there was an tntrmate

, ?:relationshrp between hrm and Monica Lewcnszy What was your

; :J 1 relation to that? One of the Grand Jurors asked me to ask

: :: : you that.

1121

!?3i

$ v;arrsonal reaction?

!I41 A Does that matter?

::51 Q What was our reaction?

ii61 MR. WISENBEAG: The Grand Jurors have asked. Its’

!17lnot a privile ed

IlBl TRE I%%-&!? Well no I understand that I just

[ 1 gp the statements that hes made ’ as - have been - have not ‘

t2o 1 been definitive

t21 jactually stating

t22 1 Information and he

t23~statement.

1241 MR. WISENBERG:

I251 1 THE FOREPERSON:

Any others?

I just want to darify that. So

Page 114

[ 9 I appropriate to ask it. We can discuss it outsiie the

rloipresence of the witness. but I think we orobablv ouaht to

i 11 jitay away from questions involving opinion. s _

1121 THE WITNESS: Thank ou.

I131 THE FOREPERSON:

A JUROR: I have a

Tt!ank you.

t::itell Monica that you thought that t

uestion.

9,

Dii you at any time

e relationship that she

ti6jwas having with the President inappropriate, that you thought

117 1 that that was an ina

THE WIT&.&:

ro riate relatronship?

j:i)think she had a pretty clear understanding that I didnt’

My discusstons with her always -

120 1 necessarily ap rove

r21~There was notR.

of the relationship that she was having.

tng that I could independentty do about it.

t22lShe was a frtend -

1231 A JUROR: I understand that.

THE WITNESS: - I had to listen to her and offer

I::ladvice as much as I co&, but I think she understood that

Page 115

tljthat was standing on it.

f21 “)r JUROR

t3)him?

Dii you ever think she was obsessed with

141 THE WITNESS: No, I wouldnt use the word obsessed. ’

151 MR. WtSENBERG:

A JUROR:

All right.

Real quickly and

I76isaid this, but I just want to be sure. 1 don

ou might have already

telnames. Do ou personal1 know Little Cree

191 relationship hat she deve r raped while shes’

t 101 whoever Ltttle Cree is?

I111 THE Wl&ESS: Yes. . _

t121 A JUROR: Do you know that person?

THE WITNESS: I met him once

MR. WISENBERG:

I251 THE FOREPERSON:

OlCStarr Page 110 to Page 115
3393

Page 116

Ashley Raines, II29198

I 4 1 was concluded.)

15; . . . . .

16i

ii;

l9i

[IO]

111:

[I21

[131

[I41

[I51

I161

I171

I181

I191

[201

r211

l22l

i23i

I241

1251

Page 117

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

I111

I121

il3j

[I41

I151

[I61

I171

1181

[I91

1201

1211

i22j

I231

[241

1251

St B Gnff

Of%% R&port:

Page116toPage117 OlCStan
3394
3395

1

OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COLVSEL

Da:: IF transcnpr:on 2/2/98

WILLIAM BLAINE RICHARDSON, United Szates Ambassador to

the United Nations, arranged through his attorney, JUSTIN SIMON,

to be interviewed at the UN suite located at THE WATERGATE HOTEL,

2650 Virginia Ave. NW, Washington D.C. Present during the

interview were SIMON, ELAINE METLIN an associate of Mr.SIMON at

the law firm DICKSTEIN SHAPIRO MORIN & OSHINSKY, 2101 L Street

NW, Washington D.C. and ANDREW ATHY, RICHARDSON's personal

attorney and friend, 2540 Massachuettes Ave. &W, Washington D. C.

All persons present were advised of the purpose of the interview

and the official and personal identity of Investigator BASTIN and

Associate Independent Counsel PATRICK O'BRIEN. RICHARDSON

thereafter provided the following information.

RICHARDSON remembers that probably a few days before he

received the resume of MONICA LEWINSKY at his New York office, he

had a casual conversation with JOHN PODESTA at the WHITE HOUSE.

PODESTA mentioned to him that PODESTA would like for him to

interview a person who is moving to New York and is a friend of

BETTY CURRIE, the presidents secretary, about a job with the

UNITED NATIONS in New York. PODESTA closed the subject matter by

saying he was unaware of the person's name, however he would send

the resume to his UNITED NATIONS office in New York.

RICHARDSON explained that his usual weekly routine is

to travel from New York to Washington D. C. on Tuesday morning in

time for a meeting at the WHITE HOUSE in the afternoon. He will

overnight at his suite in THE WATERGATE HOTEL on Tuesday night

and attend another meeting at the WHITE HOUSE & Wednesday

morning and then fly back to New York in the afternoon. He then

returns to Washington D. C. on Friday for a Friday afternoon

meeting at the WHITE HOUSE. On most of these occasions he sees

and talks with JOHN PODESTA.

RICHARDSON recalls when he returned to his New York

office his Administrative Assistant, ISABELE WATKINS handed him a

resume of MONICA LEWINSKY and told him that this is the resume

that JOHN PODESTA and BETTY CURRIE had discussed at the WHITE

HOUSE. The resume was faxed to his office from the WHITE HOUSE on

or about the same day he arrived in New York. There was then a

discussion about whether or not and when to interview LEWINSKY.

RICHARDSON asked WATKINS to set up the interview or "put it on

Investigation on l/28/98 at Washington D. C. File # 29D-LR-35063

-.

by CI Dare dicta::d 2/3”98
3396

OIC-302a tRe\ R-!9-91)

293-LR-35063

Continuarlon of OIC-302 of William Blaine Richardson .On l/28/98 page 2

the schedule".

RICHARDSON recalls that a second discussion may have

occurred between himself and JOHN PODESTA. If this discussion

took place it was probably on Air Force One on a Latin American

trip. RICHARDSON has a vague recollection of a very short

discussion wherein PODESTA may have asked if the resume had been

received. RICHARDSON said his best recollection is that LEWINSKY

had not been interviewed at that time.

RICHARDSON stated that it is not unusual for people to

recommend others to him for possible jobs within the UN and he

always tries very hard to “extend the courtesy of seeing" each

person referred to him.

The interview‘of LEWINSKY was put on the schedule for

an interview in Washington D. C. at THE WATERGATE HOTEL on

October 31, 1997 for 7:30 am. RICHARDSON recalls being in

Washington on Thursday evening before the interview and recalls

the following morning MONA SUTPHEN and REBECCA COOPER were at his

suite as well as his usual security guards. SUTPHEN went to the

hotel lobby to meet LEWINSKY and escort her to the suite.

RICHARDSON met briefly with LEWINSKY and turned the

interview over to COOPER. He recalls that he was in and out of

the sitting area during the interview. The interview centered

around a political appointment in the area of public affairs.

RICHARDSON does not recall any discussion of salary but it was to

be somewhat consistent with the salary of GENA%REIGO who was

leaving the position being considered. RICHARDSON remembers

LEWINSKY being poised and effervescent with a good background

consisting of work at the WHITE HOUSE and the Pentagon and

specifically remembers that she was to take a trip with Secretary

of Defense COHEN sometime in the future. The interview was

concluded after about 25 minutes and no job being offered.

RICHARDSON recalls a conversation with COOPER in route

to Congress after the interview, wherein she indicated that she

liked LEWINSKY and considered her a good prospect. Sometime

later RICHARDSON had a similar conversation with SUTPHEN and an

almost identical response. RICHARDSON indicated to both that he

wanted to think about it for awhile. Approximately 7-10 days

later he decided to offer her the job told SUTPHEN to call
3397

29D-LR-35353

Cnntinuarwn of OIC-302 of William Blaine Richardson .~n J-/28/98 ,pqe 3

LEWINSKY and offer her the job. SUTPHEN reported back to

RICHARDSON that LEWINSKY said she was appreciative but would like

some time to think about the job primarily because she was also

interested in a job in the private sector.

RICHARDSON confirmed that no other candidates were

interviewed for this position.

RICHARDSON recalls that at about this time the IRAQI

crisis erupted and he didn't think about LEWINSKY's application

for possibly 2 weeks. RICHARDSON at some point remembered

LEWINSKY and asked SUTPHEN to contact LEWINSKY and find out if

she will take the job or not. SUTPHEN reported back after

talking to LEWINSKY that she was not interested in the job

because she wanted to pursue a job in the private sector, however

she did want to thank RICHARDSON for his assistance.

RICHARDSON believes there was about 2 weeks between the

interview and the time when SUTPHEN made the job offer to

LEWINSKY.

RICHARDSON said he recalls a conversation with BETTY

CURRIE which occurred during a chance encounter in the west wing

of the WHITE HOUSE sometime probably before SUTPHEN offered the

job to LEWINSKY. RICHARDSON knows CURRIE well and they hugged

during their greeting and RICHARDSON recalls saying to her 'I

interviewed this woman you sent, she's very good". It was a short

conversation and she did not respond other than an acknowledgment

of his comment. z

RICHARDSON stated that he has not talked to anyone else

at the WHITE HOUSE about LEWINSKY and this specifically includes

President CLINTON.

RICHARDSON said he does not keep his own calendar and

that he does not create notes or files with regard to meetings

and especially meeting with potential hires.

On the day of the publicity of the information

concerning President CLINTON and LEWINSKY, COOPER called

RICHARDSON at 6:30 am and advised him to read the newspaper about

LEWINSKY. She also indicated the article said that CLINTON

officials met with LEWINSKY for breakfast at the WATERGATE HOTEL
3398

OK-302a (Rev. 8-19-94)

29D-LR-35353

Continuation of OK-302 of William Blaine Richardson .On l/28/98 Page _

which RIGHARDSON said was completely false.

RICHARDSON remembers that probably on the next occasion

that he saw PODESTA following the newspaper accounts, PODESTA

said to him that he (PODESTA) was sorry he got him into this.

RICHARDSON stated that no one has tried to shape or

urge him to change his recollection of these events.

RICHARDSON said that on November 15, 1997 he had a

chance encounter with LEWINSKY in New York at the 21 CLUB where

his wife was taking him out for a birthday dinner. As he and his

wife entered the club, someone spoke to him from across the room.

He approached the person and after the person said to him, "I'm

MONICA LEWINSKY" he then realized that she was the person who had

applied for a job with the UN. She was with an older man and

woman who she introduced. There was no discussion about the job

or the interview and no mention about JORDAN or anyone else.

This was the last time he saw LEWINSKY.

RICHARDSON is described as follows from observation and

interview.

Name: William Blaine Richardson

Sex: Male

Race: Caucasian

DOB: 11/15/47

SSAN:

Residence:+

d

Telephone: 1

Title: U. S. Ambassador to the United Nations

Telephone: 212-415-4402
3399

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98

OK Deposition

Page 2 to Page _

CONDENSED TRANSCRIPT AND CONCORDANCE

PREPARED BY:

OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Suite 490-North

Washington, DC 20004

Phone: 202-514-8688

FAX: 202-5 14-8802
3400

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAX(1)

ii1

Page 3

PROCEEDING S

: ,J At this time. the attorneys will identify

; : I themselves and the

i“-> MR. BIEN1

arties they represent. please.

RT: My. name is Thomas H. Bienert, Jr.

131

141.. .._

I I 5 j identity nerselt and swear in tne waness. prease.

COURT REPORTER:

I i7” i WHEREUPO N

My name rs Elizabeth Eastman.

1181 WILLIAM B. RICHARDSON

i isj having been called for examination by the Oftice of the

tzollndependent Counsel, and having been first duty sworn by the

(2 I J notary, was examined and testified as follows:

I221 EXAMINATION BY OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COI

I231 BY MR. BIENERT:

Q

iz:;for the record?

Sir, would you go ahead and state your full name

JNSEL

Page 4

111 A My name is William B. Richardson.

[21 Q And what does the 6 stand for?

[31 A Blaine. EL-A-l-N-E.

Q Now Ambassador Richardson, before we get into more

I: 1 substantive questions. let me just explain sort of the

[ 6 1 protocol to make sure that you understand it, and have no

[ 7, questions.

We are operating as though we were appearing before

/::a grand jui becs;s$ -

[lOI

- our intention here is to show this video to the

I iijempaneled grand ury ‘ that the Qffice of Independent Counsel [ 131 is currently using 6.ere n Washington, D. C. Do you

11 I 1 understan; thavt,;?

I151

Q And b

I :7” 1 your request that we

a reement with your counsel, based on

1 le 1 courthouse because

db it at a place other than the

your schedu e and some of the matters ( 191 ou are involved in, we agreed that we would do that. Is

120 1 hat your understanding? r

I211 A

[ :: 1 the

Q

Yeah. and I appreciate it.

Now, everything I explain to you then, as far as

,zrlas tl!

rocedures and the way we are operating, is

ough we are appearing before a grand jury. II

oing to be

! 2 5 1 understand that?

0 you

Page 5

3 A I understand.

_ Q Okay Now. as a wetness before a dul

: lgrand jury. you have a couple of Important nghts and Y

empaneled

.I ;explarn these n

?

hts to all wrtnesses, with the exce

P

tron of

: 5: perhaps law en orcement. case agent types, but a I percrprent

6‘ rwrtnesses we o throu h this with i-/ TheBrrst ngh you have is a right under the Fifth 9

i 3 (Amendment not to rncnmlnate yourself. And do you understand

3 1 that the Frfth Amendment. woujd allow

! 13 1 any questron that

ou to refuse to answer

;r

ou belreve In good arth Y. could subject you f : I ! to cnmrnal lrabrlity

[::‘ A I understand.

::3; Q And do you have any queshons about your Fifth

1: 4 ;Amendmegt rigk;?

!:5;

Q

1::; have a right to consult with counse And what that means

Now, in addition to pur Fifth Amendment right, you

118 1 for purposes of a grand jury appearance, is that your counsel

[ 1 slcant’ actual1

1301 be outside tr:

be in the room with us, but

e room or avarlable by telep z

our counsel can

one. And if at any

[*I ittme you want to stop the proceedrngs and go out and consult

i23 lwrth

[z3]that.7y

our counsel, you are allowed to. Do you understand

(241 .. A Yes.

[ZSI Q And are you represented by counsel?

Page 6

ill A Yes.

I: 1 law firm

Q In fact is your counsel Mr. Justin Simon of the

of Dickstein

I41 A

Shapiro?

Yes, he is.

Q

! 2 1 conference room at his office. correct?

In fact today we are at his offices in a

.~.

i71 A Thats correct. ’ ’

iO1 0 And is he present today?

[91 A Yes, he is.

Ii01 Q And to your knowledge, is he available to you

1 I: 1 should you have any questions?

[LZi A Yes, he is available.

L131 Q

~14 jcounsel?

Do you have any questions about your right to

[I51 A No.

A Yes, yes.

Page 7

Q

~:~include not iust aivina affirmative information that IS false

And do you understand that perjury would also

i 3 j but. for exam le: say?ng

14 1 don't recall rn.Pormation az;

ou dont have information or you ’

out a material fact when, in fact.

r51you do.

[61 A Right.

171 Q Do YOU understand that?

[Bl A I understand.

Q And do you understand that if you were to commit

t:z;perjury its a crime ’ punrshable b u to five years in

I 1 I 1 prison and a fine of up to $250.

il2i’ A Right. ’

080-P

I131 Q Do you have any questions about perjury?

1141 A No.

Q

I i 2 ; some auestions for me?

Now I think thats all that I have unless you have ’

i17j A No, that’s fine.

I181 Q

[ 191 although

Actually, the last thin

,2llever$-’

ou have done an excellen8.

Im’ going to mention,

job so far is, because

(20 1 its ’ rm o ant that the court reporter be able to get

hrng down, number one, we want to make sure that we

I 22 I respond to everything audibly. So, use words instead of

133jgestures. _ - _

[241 And, number two, Ill’ do my best not to speak when

(3 3 1 you are speakrng. and I would ask that you do your best not

OIC-Starr Page 2 to Page 7
3401 

BSA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4/30/98 

Page 8 Page 11 

j i 110 speak when myself or Mr. Lemer is speaking. Do you 

c 2 1 understand? jj: A Now, should I look at you when I answer. or should 

;; i I look at the camera? 

‘i 2 i 

It’s actually whatever you are comfortable with. I 

:s)ku findmIst naturalaniuess my suggestron would be, assume that the camera would be 

i 7 1 e persons In the grand ury And so it’s really wha!ever 

IS! A Okay. 

:iO! 

ill1 

0 -comfortable. 

A All right.. 

i1:1 Q All right, sir, why don’t you go ahead and tell us 

; 13! what your title is: how Ion 

r I 4 I United Nahons and what w 

you have been Ambassador to the 

.~ at entails. what vour duttes are? 

i :zi Nations. 

A Okay. I am the American Ambassador to the United 

I was appointed in February of 1997 and I’ve served 

117 1 in that capacity for approximately 14 months now. It IS a 

t~sjCabinet+_vel position based rn New York City with a bt of 

( i 9 1 responsrbtldies overseas and in Washington,, D.C. 

I’01 0 

A 

And by whom were ou a pointed? 

1211 I was a 

[::I Q P 

pointed b J &es&t Clinton. 

And is his subje to confirmation b an one? 

1231 A Yes. It’s subiect to confirmation bv fyY he .S. 

That would consMute my lmmedlate personal sta_ff 

i_. tn New York. I also have a personal staff, or a staff in an 

:: office in Washtn ton. D. C 

I; Q dell. let’s sra with New York for just a second 

: 5 -and then we’ll shifl down IO Washington. 

Ii A Okay. 

,- Q Let’s talk about. as far as phone numbers. what is 

i 3 : the phone number that someone would use to get 

[ 5. residence at the Waldorf Astona? Is it somethrn 

; I’, 

E 

rsonal to your residence. 

111: aldorf Astoria number and 

[ 1: : connected to your room? 

li3: A We have a direct line. 

[14. Q 

A 

Okay. And what is that number? 

115: And that number is-. 

[ 16: 

8 

Now, you can also 

et in touch with me through the switchboard at the Umted 

117: atrons. the U.S. Mission switchboard. They can contact my 

[ 1s : telephone. Another way is - 

119: Q And what is that number. bv the wav? 

i24iSenate. i24i -. A 

I251 Q So, you were, in fact, confirmed by the Senate? 

Another way that I am contacted is through what is 

f251called the - at my residence you are talking about? 

Page 9 

Ii1 A 

Q 

A hundred to nothing. 

I think that’s a confirmation. Now 

!:!vou were based in New York. Why don’t you go a 

ou mentioned 

5: ead and give 

First let’s talk about what is 

Iziand what is your residence address in il-- - 

our work address 

ew York? 

i 4 j us your addresses? 

[?!I 

r!2lthe 

And I live, my residence is at the Waldorf Towers, 

0 It’s the traditional residence for the 

[ 13 1 American Ambassador. And the address is East 50th Street for 

[ 1 I 1 the residence. 

!151 0 Where on East 50th Street? 

1161 A 50 East - it’s 50 East 50th. It’s right next to 

117 1 the Wakforf Astoria Hotel. 

A I can’t recall. 

Q But if we find the UN.. we will find the U.N. 

i 2 I j Mission? 

1251 A It’s right in front of it. 

Page 10 

Q What is the differential, if any, between the U.N. 

i:;and the UN. Mission? 

A Well there’s 185 countries that are represented at 

I:!the United Nations and we are one of the 185. So what the 

[ 5 1 U.S. Mission is, it’s the American Embassy at the United 

[ 6 1 Nations. And In the embassy at the Mission. we have all 

j7jtypes of representatron at the Unrted Nabons: the pot&al 

t 8 1 staff. there s Secunty Counul staff, there’s Economrc and 

I g 1 Socral Council staff. And other agencies are represented at 

tlojthe U.S. Mission. 

Q Now speakin 

i::;staff is at the U.N. Mission in % 

of staff tell us what your immediate 

ew York. 

1131 

I141 

“0 ;ou_rnean the personal staff? 

A Well I have - under me I have four ambassadors: 

I:zjPeter Burteigh. whd is the chief ambasgador who is a career 

[17~ofticer Nancy Soderbe 

c 18 1 peacekeeping; Richard % 

who is my ambassador for 

klar, who IS my ambassador for reform 

(13 jand management; and a woman by the name of Betty King, who is 

120 jmy ambassador for Economic and Social Council. 

t211 Also on my immediate staff is - I have two 

~22 lexecutive assistants. One is lsabelle Watkins, who has been 

t23jwith me for 10 years; Mona Sutphen, who is a career Foreign 

(14 1 Service Officer who IS m executive assistant; and a 

[ z 5 1 secretarial employee by r he name of Deb Nelson. 

i2Oi 

1211 

1221 

1231 

A I don’t know 

Q 

A 

Okay. It’s just the general U.N. number? 

The general UN. number. 

Q All riaht. 

Page 12 

111 Q Yes. 

IZ! A Is through what is wiled the State Department 

[ 3 i Operations Center, where if the Secretarv of State. for 

j 4 j instance, wants to talk to me at m residence. she’would call 

tslthe State Department Operations k 

t61rne to my Mission. 

enter and they would contact 

171 Q 

I a 1 for that. 

Now, you used the Secretary of State as an example 

Is. that,method,of getting ahold of you typically 

[ 91 used by fairly high-rankrnspersons who are trying to get 

tlolyou, lake th; Sev”e’edh”ly of ate or - 

1111 

[12! Q - is that how just about anybody could get - 

(131 

[I41 “0 Nq. - in no. tuch with you? 

A Just high-rankrn 

i:z;State, Undersecreta Nationa 8, 

high-ranking. Secretary of 

1171 Q And 2 ou know the number for that? 

Security Advrsor. 

I181 

t191 

A Yeah. I&+~ 

,,#?I 

,--1 

AQ &Lhat’s a ashrng on number? 

t211 6 k;;d‘ io they have some sort of a pager that you 

122 1 have. or do thev have other methods based on oeoole wha are 

iijjwith you that they get ahold of? 

A Usually they will - the call from the State 

~~~~Operations Center makes rt easier for the person initiating 

Page 13 

(1 jthe call on me, like they ma 

t2 1 call the Operations Center x 

be on an airplane. So. they’ll 

at WIII then track me down. 

Another way that I can be contacted is through my 

i:;searrity agents. If it’s an emergency and I’m not with - I 

[ 5 Idon’t have I don’t carry a pager. 

[Cl h 

A 

You don’t carry a cell phone? 

t i &cur&y Council at the 

No hard1 at all. Sometimes when I go into the 

Y. n&d Nations 1’11 take a tii 

( 9 I ceil phone. 

Q And is this a particular cell hone that is 

~:~~particubr to you with a set number, or mig g 

[ 12.1 change from time to time? 

t the cell phone 

[131 A 

Q 

No, it’s a set number. 

1141 And what is the number of your cell phone? 

1151 A I don’t know. 

Q Is it one you got through work or is it one that 

::76iwould be in your name? 

1181 A One I got through work. 

t191 Q Oka . And by work, the U.N. Mission? 

I201 A The L .N. Mission, yeah. I hardly use that though. 

1211 Q Okay. Now, what would be the number that someone 

t22jwould call to get ou at your office in the U.N. Mission? 

1231 A &II the, the number of my immediate staff the 

124 jnumber that I usually call when I want to talk to lsabelle is ’ 

__ 

:25]1-21241%404. That’s the one that I generally use to call 

Page 8 to Page 13 OIC-Starr 
3402 

BSA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4/30/98 

Page 14 

1: 1 my r-mediate staff It’s either Deb or Isabelle. 

r-” Q And IS that the number that persons are generally 

i 3 :grvet !o call you at 

iJi A No. r 

our office? 

thank they are given another number. I 

j 5 1 thlnK !nere’s a -,it’s another stmtlar number. 

!6! Q Okay. .ls.it your understanding that there are 

{ 7 1 different eitensFey wIthIn your lmmedlate - 

191 

i91 Q - office suite? 

[lo: A There are several extensions. 

I!11 Q And ou would have an extension, and then I assume 

: I 2 1 Ms. Watkins would t! ave an extension, and Ms. Sutphen - 

113! 

!l4i A0 S_utphen. et cetera, correct? 

!I51 A Yeah. Everybody would have their own extension. 

(161 Q Okay. Now, let’s talk about Washington. 

I171 A R’ht 

Q &?I y h o n’t you give us your residence address, phone 

i:~~nur&ers and your office address and phone numbers here in 

tzo]Washtngton? 

A Okay. My office address, I have an office at the 

I:: 1 Department of State. And that office is on C Street and 

tz3]it’s the big Departmant of State Buildin It’s the sixth 

124 lfloor. And in that office, I have four sta ?f members 

~2sjcurrentty that are permanent employees, and I believe a 

Page 15 

111 couple that are - one is secretarial and the other is a 

[z]loaned officer. 

And my Washington office is headed by a woman by 

i:ithe name of Rebecca Coo r. And on that staff are an 

IsI indiwdual by the name of t!? avtd Goldwin; Irma Martinez; 

I61BUF 

[7]of 

Laird. he is the loaned employee from the Department 

nergy. And, let’s see. That’s it for now. 

(61 Q And what is the phone number? 

r91 

I101 

; INF;‘t_know. 

I111 A Or I don’t remember. 

0 Let me ask you this, because it raises another 

i ::iquesbon. Obviousty I assume when you are in New York it’s 

[ 14 1 not unusual for you to call down to your Washington office. 

]~s]or at least to speak to people on the phone in the Washington 

[16]Oft?ce? 

1171 A Right. 

Q Is your typical ractice when you are in your 

i:i;office. whether it be here in 

rzolplace all of your own calls. or do 

“p”‘ingtoyr in New York, to 

ou ty ~cally ask your 

12 11 ~eaetary or someone like Isabel e Wat ns to place a call 

czz]for you and then they connect you, and then you get on the 

r23]phona? 

i24j’ A 

Q 

Yeah. I always have somebody place my calls. 

[251 So, is that one of the reasons why you suspect you 

Page 16 

[ I 1 might not be as familiar with the numbers? 

In other words, I will get depending on 

~~~~availabilii, a different room each bme I come, which 

[ I 3 1 averages about once a week. 

So, I use that office or that suite for meetings, 

t::;for my intelli ence briefings. and just to basically 

;;;;overmght beyore I’m mown&on. 

0 So, by that 

t I B ] someone wanted to 

en, IS R accurate then that if 

[ 191 Watergate, the wou 

et in touch with you b 

just call the general K 

phone at the 

otel number - 

t201 A ceah%’ 

1211 

g Yeah. That’s right. 

- and ask for your room? 

I221 

0 And would the room typically bs under Ambassador 

i : : ; Richardson’s name? 

t251 A Yes. right. 

Page 17 

,. 0 Okay Now, let’s talk about your relationship with 

i~icerta~n peocc. and we will go ahead and we’ll start with 

[ 3: President Cinton. 

!4. 

[5; Q 

!6 1 How Ion 

4* 

Yes 

Why don’t you describe your relationsnrp with hrm7 

hare you known him? How would you charactenae the 

(7 1 relatrons ID? How often do vou talk? 

1241 - But we have a good mutual respect and affection for 

[ 2 s 1 each other. 

Page 18 

111 0 Now, let me make sure. 1’11 break this down a 

12 1 little to make sure we all understand it. 

(31 So. in the 1992 - let’s sa the first term of the 

[ 12 1 to know him quite 

1131 Q And would this have primarily been in the first 

tlr]term or second term? 

iI51 A First term. 

I161 Q First term? 

(171 A Yeah. 

[I81 Q And then 

[I 91 reelection which obvious 

ou indicated that you helped him in his 

would have been 98? 

[201 A 

i: 

And I also helped in his reel&ion in 38. 

r21i 

1221 his campaign in New Mexico. 

I231 ou meetwith the President? 

[24 I Let’s just take frcrn January 1 of ‘9 as soft of a benchmark. 

[251So. we are talking about roughly the last year, year-plus. 

[ 11 How regubtiy do yw meet with the President? 

Page 19 

[21 

I31 

$ $o$.mean like phystcslly? 

A During the Iraq crisis we met with him a bL his 

I : i whole national secunty team I woub say there were 

[ 61 national secunty related meetings. seven or eight in which 

[ 7 1 he was directty nvotved. 

(81 Q 

A 

What is the timeframe of the Iraq crisis, roughly? 

t:z;January. 

Well, it was, it was October, November, December, 

[Ill Q of ‘97 and into ‘98? 

A Yeah, into ‘98. October yeah. October, November, 

f::;December. January. But we also had t!neeti s -the national 

[ 14 1 security team frequently meets with the Pres !%e nt whenever 

IIS] there IS a foreign policy issue. So we had other meetings 

[ 16]with him before the Iraq crisis on Bosnia, on China, on 

[ 17 I Mexico, and many other issues. 

[I61 So, ! am frequently in the Cabinet Room with the 

1 i 9 1 national secu 

Q r%~~!s~~eve you indicated you often come to 

if:; Washington. Usus& you are overnight at least once a week. 

[ 22 1 On average, let% say In the last year, how often do 

[ 2 3 I ITWetlngS invoke meeting with personnel at the Wh’ x e House? 

our 

I24 ] When you come here on avera e once or twice a week, do you 

r2s]usually have meetings at the W%ite House? 

_- 

OlCStan Pagei t0 Page 19 
3403 

BSA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4J30/98 XMAX 4, 

Page 20 

A Yeah, the 

Y 

are all - yeah. The reasons I come I 

ii would say 75 percent of he reasons that I come to Washin 

; 1 are meetmgs at the White House, In the White House 

toi 

Situa P Ion 

4 1 Room where the national security advisors 

5 !Tuesdays and Frida Tuesday afternoon, 

ather usually 

dy 

s. 

6 IThere is a Wednes 

Friday afternoon. 

ay morning breakfast of myself and the 

7 1 Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, National 

8 1 Security Advisor. 

So there is a pattern of about three times that I 

zicome to Waihinqton for those meetings. And those meetinqs 

~2oj~ewrity team, 10 times. 

Q And since we were talking about the entirety of 

I::; January, from Janua 

rzslthat most of those eig .x

of ‘97 to the present. is it accurate 

[rrlin late - 

t to 10 meetings would have happened 

L251 A Yes. 

Page 21 

A 

ii!wife and I have entertained him and the First Ladv with other 

Not that much. He’s been to New York twice and my 

:io j uests at our residence. I’ve been to State dinneis. 

111 8 omebmes after a national security meeting, I’ll go into his 

12 1 office and we’ll chat briefly. 

I131 

I141 

But I wouldn’t say we have a social relationship. 

Q Now, when you say he’s been to your house in New 

15 1 York twice, I’m assuming that is twice all totalled, not just 

16 1 in the last eat? 

‘171 x 

161 Q 

Yeah, yeah, because I’ve only held the job a year. 

That’s right since ‘97, I guess. 

191 A Yes. since ‘97. 

Cl Now, how often do you talk by telephone - and 

:!iagain let’s say since you‘ve been m this postion as U.N. 

zz &nba&sador - with the President? 

i23j A Ve infrequently. 

1241 Q 

A 

ByThat less than once a month? 

I251 Less thbn once a month. yeah. 

Page 22 

Q Can 

1: ;spoken to him b ly 

ou estimate how many times 

te ephone since you’ve been Am g 

ou believe you’ve 

assadoR 

ii ; initiated? 

A E!y telephone? You mean that I’ve initiated or he’s 

151 0 Either way. 

161 A Three times. 

[71 Q Now,- 

181 A Maybe, maybe, maybe a little more. Not certainly 

.-. r 9 I on a reaular basis. 

” Q Now when you have a tele 

i:?;these few times whdn you’ve had them wit g 

hone conversation, on 

the President, if 

et in touch with the President, how do you go 

Usually what 1’11 do is I’ll have lsabelle contact 

I :: i Nancy Hemreich or I will be. or I’ll call, or somebod will 

I 161call the White House signal operator. But it’s usua 

[ 17 1 usually have somebody place the call. 

&*I 

Q But your understanding is that the call would 

I:i;usually befad;;;pgh a White House operator? 

[ZOI 

I211 Q Or someone like Nancy Hemreich? 

have any understandin as to 

President has contacte 8 

[2s]you by phone, how has that happened, do you know? He just 

Page 23 

(l Icalled - 

(71 A Yeah, he just calls the office 

I31 Q In the same manner as anyone else? 

A Yeah. 

Yeah. I, I, as I said. I don’t think it’s haooeneo 

19 1 that frequently. 

. . 

0 Now, are there other persons - and I’m 

[ iii confine this solely to persons who are working in the W I! 

oing !: 

ite 

[ 111 House, assistants, aides, et cetera. to the President - but 

112 lwho would be the persons in the White House, since ou’ve 

[ 13 1 been Ambassador, that you do meet with or speak WI .r h, with 

[ I 4 1 any frequency at all? 

Cl51 A In the White House? 

iI61 0 Yes, sir. 

A Well, Sandy Berger. the National Security Advisor, 

i:ilalrnost once a day; Jim Steinberg. who is his Deputy National 

[ 19 1 Security Advisor; and - .“_.Y on a frequent basis, that s about 

L L ” , IL 

I.211 Q And then I’m assuming obviously you will speak to 

r22lother people on occasion as a need arises? I mean, that’s 

123lcertainty not the universe of persons at the White House that 

[241you s@?ak - 

1251 A Yeah. 

Page 24 

(11 with correct? 

Ul 2 yhat’s’right. That’s 

Q What I would like to Tht. oand I’m going to tell you 

i :i now and one of the things we can discuss with your attorney 

1s ldurihg a break is,, I noticed that when we got some production 

[6]from your office, it includes a scheciuk? for months of 

but it did not include October, November or ;;ign& 

r And I’m not sure if that’s because we didn’t ask 

[glfor it. or if there is another reason for it. 

But one of the thin 

I 17 1 newspaper accpunts and 

[ 1 FJ 1tell it seems to identify where you probably were. And with 

[ 19 I that caveat, what I’m Just going to do is sort of tell you 

rzolwhat the press accounts have suggested to us, and ask you if 

[zilthat SOUrIdS nght. so that we can Just sort of bracket in 

~221some ofthe times. 

I::;elcped.. 

A 

9, 

Although I think for our. for purposes of 

Ithinkwedidsubmita r ist.ascheduleofthe 

c251general ays in those months where I was. 

Page 25 

Iiimonth. 

0 Okay. And to my knowledge, I think we got the one 

MR. LERNER: 

i:ias far as I know, the month of Janua 

We got two particular days and we got, 

But that was in a 

[s 1 binder that I saw. Ma be there are a 

BY MR. BIl!NERT: 

7.. d&onal pages. 

[61 

Q And I’m not aware of it either. But what we will 

iii do is we will address that with your counsel. The bottom 

~9~lineisifthereismoreofaschedulenot aware of it. 

(241 

I251 

A Right. 

Q And I just want to make sure we are clear on the 

- 

Page 20 ro Page 25 OIC-Stan 
3404 

BY Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAX(S) 

Page 26 

: : hmes of thr. 

. 

Cl %?fwst of all IS it accurate that you do 

; recall taking a - that there were Issues relating to the 

: 3 Congo in r;ugh October of 1997? 

._I Ves. 

._ 0 And that at some point in October of 1997 you 

i. actually wrt toY;; Congo? 

: 

::7 Q All right. And do the dates, the dates that we 

i : ; have would be that you were in the Congo or left for the 

I : r : Congo on approxtmately October 23rd and returned somewhere 

i : 3: around October 3Oth? 

!:a: A Yeah, that sounds ri ht. 

iiiiAme&a. 

Q And then similarly, t I! ere was a trip to Latin 

[1-: A Right. 

[I31 Q And the dates that we have from press accounts is 

[ 19 1 that the trip for Latin America was roughly October 13th 

r z r : throug h Opbe+;sth? 

12:: 

(22: Q 

A 

Does that sound about right? 

t23: That sounds right. 

124: Cl Now, what were some of the other issues that were 

[Z 5: going on in the October timeframe? You mentioned the Iraq 

Page 27 

:::crisis had heated u 

I? 

correct? 

A Yea The Iraq crisis heated up; the Congo issue. 

I; j At the time right after the Latin America trip. the President 

: 4 : wanted me to work on the fast track issue. So, I spent some 

L 5 : time in October and November working that here. 

And then in the U.N. Security Council, there’s just 

i-“; like an issue a day. Every morning we meet. But the Iraq 

! z : issue was starting to heat up. So,, predominantly Iraq. fast 

: 3: track, and then, well, the Congo tnp took some of those 

Is it accurate that at least during your term as 

o issue were among - 

Page 28 

Q Now let’s go ahead and focus and obviously the 

I : i issue that we want io address here is the intetkiiin of 

[ 3 1 Monica Lewinsky b 

8. 

yourself and members of your o %i ce. and 

t 4 :the eventsAbefogumunng. and after that. 

15: 

Cl 

f f i first time that 

So why don’t you go ahead and tell us. what is the 

ou learned about someone that you later 

19 flearned. or at r he bme . learned. was Monica Lewinsky? 

c :z]came u 

A Well I believe that the first time this matter 

was in one of the meetings at the White House, or 

[ 11 lsomewl!ere in the vicin% 

t 12 j the White House. John 

of where we have our meetings in 

Press 

t13:Secreta 

odesta. who is the Depu 

(14 1 friend of % 

asked me if I would interview a person 3; t at was a 

etty Curries for a position in New York. because 

fls;this person according to John, was moving to New York. 

f hat was the first time. 

ii: i in early October. 

I believe it was sometime 

I: ij trip. as 

Q Now the trip to Latin America, who all was on that 

t:o!there? 

far as what was the U.S. delegation, or who was 

A Who wasn’t on it? Well John Podesta was on it. I 

if: i was on it. Six other Cabinet members: It was a huge 

tz2:delegation. 

124: 0 Was the President on the trip? 

125: A Oh, yeah, yeah. He was head of the delegation, and 

Page 29 

: : 1 the First Lady. 

_I .-: Q And how did $0~ get back and forth7 Did you 

: 3 1 actually fly on Air Force One. 

A Yeah. We were on Air Force One. And the trip went 

ii jto Venezuela. went to Brazil and Argentina. 

i y: travelin 

0 And as far as the persons who were actuali 

J ;Mr. PO 8 

on Air Force One with you. would that have rnclu cy ed 

i91 

es:. Pyre;dent Clinton, the Ftrst Lady - 

i’.O] Q and the other Cabinet members? 

;1:1 A Secretary of State, Secretary of Commerce, and 

! 12 1 other Cabinet members. 

i131 Q Is it possible that you would have drscussed wrth 

114 1Mr. Podesta the Issue of this person 

[ : 51 who later turned out to be Monica 

appl 

Lewrns K 

ing to your oftice, 

I 16 J dunng that trip? 

y, at some point 

[I71 A Yeah. I think, I think there was an instance where 

[ 18 1 John asked me if I’d received her resume. And I remember 

[ 191 respondin that I didn’t know. 

t201 9 do remember when John first raised this person 

tzllwith me, I asked John, well, what is her name. And John 

!22]said. I don’t know. So, this was pm-October, or pre-trip, a 

fz3]few, or a week before the trip. 

._ But I believe we drd have a conversation John and 

if:;l, on the plane where he said, he asked me whether I had 

Page 30 

[ 11 received her resume, and I said I didn’t know. 

I-11 Q Welt. let’s go ahead now and what I’ll do is, when 

13 1 we have conversabons. as best we can we’ll try to isolate 

14 leach conversation. 

151 A Okay. 

161 Q And go through as much as you recall. So, let’s 

! 7 1 start with the first conversation that you believed ou had 

i 9 Iwith Mr. Podesta, which would have been before r he tnp to 

r 9 I South America. 

I I 0 1 was present? 

Where was it. as best you can recall, and who 

I171 Q - you and Mr. Podesta? 

1181 A Just the two of us. 

I191 Q And what, as best you can recall, did he tell you? 

I201 A . I think his words were, there’s a person I’d like 

I 2 i 1 you to intervrew for a posrbon in New York: this person 1s 

r221movtng there and shes a friend of Be 

?r 

Cum’s. And I 

t22lsaid, well, what’s her name. He says. 

~24 lappredate it if 

don’t know, but I’d 

ou woukf just intenoew her. 

(251 Q bkihesa y anything about what level employee she 

G 

Page 31 

t I I was, whatp bao&ground was, anything - 

I21 

i3j 

g 

along those lines? 

[II 

Q 

No. Dtdn’t say anything. 

Okay. Did he give you an 

i z lof timeframe within which he wanted you r 

indication of any kind 

o talk to this 

[7]penon? 

[El A No. 

[91 Q Did he use any words of a descriptive nature, 

11 o 1 indicating whether she was a good or a bad employee? 

r 17 1 from friends, from my wife. 

[ i 8 1 my position. 

You know, this is very common in 

Q Now then as I understand it is it accurate that 

i:ijyou woukfn’t have shy other recollection of any discussions 

[ 2 I 1 with Mr. Podesta, about this as of yet unnamed applicant, 

122 Iuntil possibly dunn the South American trip? 

1231 A Yea 4 , that’s right. 

Q Now where do you believe the conversation on the 

fG:;South American trip’would have occurred? 

OlCStarr Page 26 to Page 31 
3405 

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMALI! 

Page 32 

:I! A It was on the plane, I believe. We were fly~ 

[: ~sorn&wnere and he asked me. you know, when you’re mov-g 

13 1 aroL-c the plane. 

I41 Q Was anyone else a participant or listening r- on 

f 5 1 this conversation? 

I61 A No. No 

:7, 

i s j that tme? 

Cl What. as best vou can recall. did he sav to vou at 

I9i A He sad, have 

r 

, I 

i iolpemc.. and I said. I don’t thrn 

ou gotten the resume from tr s 

SO or I don’t know. 

‘*ii .--. Q At that oornt did he identifv the oerson’s na-a? 

Li No. ’ . . 

‘i?] 

il3; 

1141 

AQ ;Jd you ask if he knew the person’s name? 

L151 Q 

rlslthe cerson? 

Was there anything of a descriptive nature aoout 

ii7j A No. 

Q Did you interpret his statement at that point as 

1: i 1 any lund of a recommendation of the person? 

I201 A No. 

Q 

iif idiscussion with Mr. P 

Anythizrther that 

ta on Arr ? orce One? 

ou can recall about the 

[231 A No. That’s about it. 

Q Now, you would have returned on approximately the 

Is : i 19th of October from the South American trip. Does that 

[ I 1 sound ab?t rigyht? 

Page 33 

eah rt was about - we left I think around the 

._, ;:: 12th ~~ and then. veah: it was about a week the. Yeah. 

Q And i can tell you based on ’ ress accounts at 

I:; least. that the press accounts indicate that t c:. etnp - In 

tslfact, we have a press schedule relating to the trip of the 

~7 1 President and it indicates that the trip was to Venezuela, 

i 9! Brazrl and Argentina. 

191 A Right. 

[lOI Q 

A 

Sunday, October 12th through Sunday October 19th. 

ill1 

Q 

That sounds right. 

Now, if you would have gotten back on Sunday the 

ii:; 19th. is it accurate that your next day in the office would 

(14 1 have beenAMon;teay: the ZOth? 

[ISI 

Cl61 0 And that would have been in the office in New York? 

A Well 

i :l i normally would have 

we tan&ad at Andrews Air Force Base. Yeah, I 

t I 9 1 York I don’t recall. 

- I probably woutd have gone to New 

Q And wbars the next thing, you recall in terms of 

~:~~thii applicant, who turned out to be Monrca Lewinsky? 

A 

~::~beiii it had been brought in by Is&elks Wa 

I remember a resume appeari on my desk and I 

ns from my 

t24jstaff. And I think that it was shortly, shortly after the 

r25lLatin American trip. 

Page 34 

0 What we witi do is we will place in front of you a 

I: !copy of the resume I bet&e we got from your office. I 

c 3 1 uess this will be our first exhibit. We are going to call 

t4&sWBR-1. 

151 (Exhibit WBR-1 was marked 

I61 for identification.) 

(71 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q If you take a took at that, sir, does that appear 

Iii to be the r~su~e~~t ou would have gotten? 

[lOI 

Q And do\$ zEr$kz !!l$e&hand comer. 

f :: 1 there is a fax indication. that indicates 10121 

i I 3 I the afternoon? 

7 at 3:09 in 

A Yeah. 

AQ 

Q 

ii9i A Yeah. 

Q Does it sound about ht to you that this woutd 

t22lapproximately the P&t of &ober? ’ 

i:i;have been somethin that ou would ave been seen around 

I231 A Is that a Sunday? What’s the 21st? 

1241 0 That’s a Tuesday. In fact, if you look, it - 

1151 A Yeah. 

Page 35 

shows a Tuesda 

15: Q And what I’ll tell you. just agarn as a point of 

16 ;reference, IS that the ress accounts that we have found 

! 7 : Indicate that you wou P d have left for the Congo on the 23rd 

[?: A Yeah, I left right after. yeah, right after I got 

i 9 1 back from Latrn America. 

IlO1 Q 

t i 1; about the actions. 

[ 111 your gethng back from outh America and your getting this 

[ 13 1 resume, we’ll say. rouqhlv on the 21 st or sometime 

[ 14 1 thereafter. Okay? - . 

I151 Tell us about who Ms. Watkins is and what her 

[16]dUtieS are. 

I171 A Okay. lsabelle Watkins has been my executive 

[ 18 Iassistant for about 10 years. She was my chief of staff when 

1191 I was I” the Congress and.1 brou 

t2ojexecutrve assrstant to the job, to 3, 

ht her with me as my 

[z 11 Unrted Natrons. 

er present job at the 

““pf 

Her maln aSSlgnment is my schedule and my 

rsonal affas-s wlthrn the office, which are very small. 

[2x] t s just mainly scheduling is what she does. 

- Q Do you believe, sir that ou mi ht have told Ms. 

I::;Watkins upon returning to your off& a x er the 8 outh America 

r 11 trip to, words to the effect of, to keep an eye out for a 

12 1 resume comin 

Page 36 

A gfeah I think so. Yeah. 

from Podesta’s office on an applicant? 

I31 

Q 

I:; have known the name of the 

And at this point, I assume you still would not 

1’51 A R’ ht I woulfirsk%~v?& name. 

Q 

ii j after not hear-in 

O?ay. And do you believe it’s accurate sir that 

19 1 that perhaps a % 

anything from Ms. Watkins about the ‘matter. 

av or two later YOU would have asked her 

11 o 1 again about the matter? _ 

Ill1 A No. I think I just asked once. I think, you know, 

t121we were pretty bus then. 

[I31 Q Well if Ms. Watkins told us that she recalls that 

I 14 1 ou asked about it once, and then asked to keep an eye out 

115 1 1 or d roughly, and then a few da 

d 

s later asked her if she 

[16] had gotten It and when she sa no, asked her to call 

I 17 1 Podesta’s office about the matter, do you believe that that 

tiejis inaccurate or - 

1191 

t201 “0 No. - you don’t - 

(211 A 

Q 

No, I think that may be possible. Yeah. 

I:: i account of tba 

Would you have an reason to uestion Ms. Watkins’ 

A 4;. 

I In fact that’s wha r she told us q? 

o. no. 

I::;likethat. AncfIsaid.youknow,keepaneyeoutfortbis 

No, I just - she takes care of things 

Page 37 

[ 1 ]thirg. And that’s all there is. It may have been that I 

t2 1 asked again. 

Q 

That may be the case. 

And I guess that does lead me to the question that 

I:; I wouM have, which is, it was a busy time for you, correct? 

I51 A 

Q 

Ve busy. 

An 

i7”iit kooks like, ma 

2 at the time when you were in the U.S. forthis. 

;;;~m~~o, you K 

be a three-day 

ad a heck of a Re 

riod before you left for 

t of things to deal with, 

tioj A R’ ht. 

Q If? is in fact true that ou did ask Ms. 

I:: i Watkins a second time to check in on r he resume and to 

[ 13 1 actual 

[ 14 1 would 3: 

call Podesta’s office about it. why do you think you 

ave done that? 

I151 A Okay. Let me, let me talk to my - can I take a 

tl6]break? 

1171 

~:~~the record, on my clock it’s 

1201 break while Ambassador Richardson discusses w 

(Whereupon, the deposition was recessed from 1064 a.m. 

i::;until lo:08 a.m. 

MR. B IENERT: 

i::ictock. it’s about 10:08. 

We are back on the record and on my 

f251 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Page 32 fo Pige 37 OIC-Stan 
BSA 

3406 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 

Page 38 

xw.1.-1 

Page 41 

Q Now, we were talking about what, if anything, might 

ii : have transprred between your getbn back from the South 

: 2 ;Amencan tn and pnor to recetvmg t e resume that we have 

!:.marked as&R-l. 

R 

15: A Right. 

!; Q 

[ - i correct? 

At this bme. it was an active. busy time for you, 

13: A It was busy, but it was not the most intensive 

i 2; period. The Iraq issue did not explode until the end of 

11’2. October. It was busy. But Iraq had not started to percolate 

[ 1: : then. It was startmg with some roblems. But I recall it 

c 12 1 wasn’t until I got back from the rz ongo that it really 

! I 3 ! exploded. 

[14: Q Which would have meant at the end of - 

115; ; End of October. 

1161 - very end of October. 

i17i A Yeah.. 

Q Now, and at this time, and again we are focusing on 

[ :E 1 the timeframe from say, October 20th to October, say, 22nd. 

rzoi A Yeah. 

(2:) Cl When you got back from South America and before you 

c 12 1 left for the Con o okay? 

t23: A ii’ht. 

Q 

I::;Podesta had mentioned to you, you didn’ 

tn!erms of this potential afflicant that Mr. 

now the name of the 

Page 39 

t I japplicant. correct? 

[2! A Right. 

Q 

I : ;’ the applicant? 

You didn’t know anything about the background of 

IS! A Right. 

0 You didn’t know what level employee this person was 

I4 ] hoping to be correct? 

[B! A ’ Was this before I saw the resume? 

[91 0 Yes, sir. 

A Because we had a vacancy in my Washington office. a 

~:~!slot that I had wanted to move to New York that was outreach- 

[II ; oriented. And so I knew there was, there was a vacancy. Now 

[ 13 I- but I did not know until I saw the resume about the 

[ I 4 lqualifications of Ms. Lewinsky. I didn’t even know who it 

t15twas until I saw the resume. 

[I61 Q Well, first of all. when you say outreach-oriented, 

t17lwhat do you mean? 

A Well, specifically. I had hired a new chief of 

I:t;staff who wanted to bring somebody in that could do liaison 

r201with the United Nations community, to try to sell the U.N. 

121 tWe were having roblems 

[22]warMd some tnx? y that cou %.. 

etting fundin for the U.N. She 

Itarson wrth .%. usmess groups. She 

t 23 lwanted somebod 

[24 JtnPS. She want d 

that would aiso help me + advance for my 

1251 

somebody that was a publu afhtrs enaM 

This was the same posttton that a woman by 

L 11 interview, or I’m asked by somebody if I can 

12 1 this person, very high-level 

ive advice to 

[ 3 1 Ithink KS part of my own. I t x 

pes asking me P o do this. And 

I 4 1 ask you to interview people. 

Ink. respect for others that 

[51 And also, rf there’s a possibility that I would 

[ 61 hire the person, I interview them myself. I insist on that, 

[ 7 1 even the bwest level. 

0 

itjthrough the end of January of 1998 how man 

In the time period from say September of 1957 

lolpersonalty interview as possible emplo 

Ill A Since I was - well. I’d Ii z fy IFpIe d’d y”- 

ees o t e UN.? 

12 lprobably December when my 

e to go back to 

appointment was announced. 

131 Q December of - 

[I41 

[151 

I161 

1171 

1181 

1191 

$ “of”; ;g;o that? 

A Of’98. yeah. 

z ik>;ny have I interviewed? People? 

.~~. 

[201 A About 75. 

I211 Q 

A 

And I’m assuming, sir, that a large number - 

i::;know, a hrge number at the beginning when I was first 

Seventy-five, I don’t - I’d say 80 to 75 with, ycu 

124lstaffing out 

1251 Q And is it accurate. sir, that upon your appointrrrnt 

____ 

Page 40 Page 43 

I: $r~% %%le bii. move it, move it to New York. 

o in my Washington office had. We wanted to 

Q 

I: i Lewinsky. however, you had no idea what leve appltcant she 

Now, prior to getting and seeiq the resume of Ms. 

t5lmight be. correct? 

I61 A 

Q 

Yeah, that’s right. 

And to your knowledge the person that Mr. Podesta 

Ii 1 had been referring to could have been an executive level 

[ 91 person, correct? 

A Yeah. 

So, in terms of this unknown, un-background-kncnvn 

A 

I:: i that in other words’ can 

Well I don’t know if I did. I m$ht have done 

[24 lif I did. I think I asked. w 

ou 

1: 9 

et the resume. I don’t know 

en 

[ 2 5 1 ever get that resume. 

got back, I said, did we 

And I don’t know whether we got it 

I 1 I as U.N. Ambassador, it’s part of what you do or are entiiled 

[z 1 to do anyway, to go ahead and choose your entire staff, 

I 3 I correct? 

I41 A That’s right. 

151 Q And so most of these people would have been peopl 

[ 6 I that in the hte 1998Iearly 1997 stage you were interviewing 

f7jto et our staff in 

9rx dp 

lace so that you could begin your work 

[s]as . . Ambassa or, correct? 

A That’s right. and I hired every one of them. I dd 

[ :iinot - I took referrals from agencies from the White House 

I 111 from the Congress, from the outs& community. and I hired 

I 12 Ievery slngk person. 

1131person on my staff. 

I made the decision on every single 

! ::! 

Q Now let’s o back to the timeframe of the latter 

I 16 I, P hrough January of 1998. How many pe 

art of ‘97. early ‘98: So, % t’s say September of ‘97 

le have 

I 17 I intennewed dunn that three or four-mont T ? 

ou personally 

ce at the U.N.? 

penod or a 

All right. September of ‘97? 

1201 Q Yes, sir. i’m ‘ust taki 

12 1 ILewinsky interview through j “91 

a month right before tf-e 

anuary o 98. 

[221 A Five, six, seven. 

f231 Q 

[24]interweWed? 

Okay. And who were the other people that yo; 

I251 A I don’t know. I mean, 1’11 get it for you, if you 

_- 

OlC-Starr Page 38 to Page 43 

[ : ! right away or I don’t know if I asked for a second time 

1:: - -I do know that the resume appeared on my desk 

[ 3 1 I said to Isabelle. I have told John Podesta I’d rntervrew 

J.-d 

id lthrs person. set It UD. 

iji Q Now, you rndrcated to us a little while ago the: 

i 6 1 you frequently get requests from people who want you to 

I 7 1 intervrew someone, correct7 

Page 42 
3407 

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XYAX(8) 

Page 44 Page 47 

: : vwant. 

.Ti 

-. Q 

: -did you conclude should be done? 

Well. I looked at the resume 

‘3’ 

:4: 

$ 

Okay Well, do an names come to mind? 

l&nti;lJ~nuary of 01 9 ? 

'j] A 

jc,: 

OL’98. I mean, no names come to mind. 

Q What were the positions that you were interviewing 

r 7 1 these people for? 

isi A They were similar. They were press jobs. 

I 3; were jobs in the press ofhce. where most of my vacancies 

They 

a.schedule. as I told John Podesta. an rntervrew with her. I 

: 1 o 1 occur. There was one position in the protocot office t,hat I 

! : ! 1 remember intet-vrewmg for. There were 

: i ,.told John I’d intervrew her, t 

: ;z I-- well. Rebecca Cooper. I think I hired 

rrtrons marnly on my c that’s what that’s what she 

to schedule it. And I think 

er dunng that 

: 13lpenod. And, yeah, Rebecca Cooper, September. 

:141 Q Now, Rebecca Cooper sat in with you - 

[151 

Ii61 Aa Yeah- on the 

A Right. 

interview of Ms. Lewinsky. correct? 

Cl71 

I181 Cl 

1 f 9: tme. correct? 

So, she would have at least been hired by that 

Q 

3 rd. 

Do you believe. sir. that you would have called Ms 

: : 3 1 Lewinsky at some point in the timeframe of, after receiving 

: : 4 I the resume on the 21 st but before you left to go to the Congo 

; : 5 1 on the 23rd? 

:?6: 

. _ .-,I 

$ ye;.mean me calling her? 

i:31 A No, I don’t think so. I mean, lsabelle would set 

i;;jLewinsky? a 

1241 A Well, I know I selected her over the summer, but 

tzslshe went through, you know, her security clearance. She had 

Page 45 Page 48 

i : 1 been working for me about a month, I think, or maybe a little 

[2jmore. 

MR. BIENERT: Just as an aside I 

I.?; havin a hammerin session. I’m sure it will ma 

uess we are 

i 5 1 soun 8 % 

1 

good. It will e better than my coughing. 

e our tape 

BY MR. BIENERT: 

i24i - A ’ Well there - yeah. I mean, there were instances 

; 2 5 1 where in the past, if I was seeking somebody, I probably 

iJ1 A I don’t think it’s the case, because lsabelle sets 

! 9 1 up my meetings. 

;131 Cl Okay. I’m going to go ahead and use the next 

::: !exhibit. which will be Government’s Exhibit WBR-2, and I’m 

: 12 I oin 

:%9 

to place it - the court reporter will give you a cop 

! ~3 1 ut I m gorng to let you look at it while we are waiting, a r 

i:clmY COPY 

!lSl (Exhibit WBR-2 was marked 

;?6i 

!I71 

for identification.) 

BY MR. BIENERT: 

I’m going to hand you that. Sir I’ll represent to 

is a phone record that we receiveb via subpoena 

rts to indicate calls from your office. Do you see 

.--, ~-. - 

1221 A Yeah. 

Q Okay. Now if you bok at the record, it shows 

Zne. two. three four five c&s. Do you see that? 

t251 A kes. ’ 

Page 46 

1 I 1 there. She was the rece tionist. 

0 Andso&.. 

I think she’s left. 

;:;works for? 

o IS rt that you understand she directly 

141 A I don’t know. I don’t know who she works for. 

ts1 Q_ But she’s a receptionist, I think you said, for 

[ 6 ] Whom. I’IOW? 

A At the White House, for the West Wing for the - 

iii it’s sort of a protocol position. You walk in and she asks 

t 9 lyou to sit down and she says, who do you want to see. 

Q bo you know whether or not she works directty under 

I : i; Mr. Podesta for exam 

t121 A’ i 

le? 

I don’t t ink so. 

Q Do you know whether she works directly under the 

i iii President, _in te_rqrs of part of his immediate staff or - 

1151 A No. 

1161 Q that - 

1171 A 

- is it your understandin 

Q 

No, it’s not that high-leve 9 a position. 

Now, upon receivrng the resume, do you have any 

I :ilrecollection of talking with anyone about the resume or the 

tzolfact of its receipt, or anything like that? 

t211 A 

(221 0 

No. I don’t think I talked to anyone. 

I’m assuming you looked at the resume, correct? 

1231 A Yeah, I did. 

Q Now, once you saw the resume of what is now 

11:; identified on the resume as Ms. Lewinsky. what if anything 

Page 49 

i:iit 

Q And it ives a date and it gives an extension, and 

ivesthenumbercaledandthe~thenarne which 

4 

9 

[ 3 1 un oftunateiy is cut a tile bii off of the page, but over 

[ 4 1 at the right-hand side of the page. 

A Yeah. Yeah. 

Do you see that? 

151 

fsl Q Okay. Now, looking at those calls there, do you 

[7 1 see, sir, that there are, on that 

[ 8 1 different extensions indicated. %le 

age there are three 

first call, for example 

r9which oaxned on October 21st at 19:01, or 7:Ol p.m., shows 

I i 0 1 a call from extension 4404? 

I111 A Right. 

[I21 Q And it has the name William RI - and then if you 

[ 13 I see where: coyy; over to the next page, RIchardson? 

Cl41 

I151 

1161 

AQ R@~;;u see that? 

11’1 0 Under that, there are three calls that have the 

: i B 1 name lsabelle Watkins, and they show the extension 4402. Do 

t 1s 1 you see that? 

!201 A Yeah, I do. 

Q And then finally there is a call that says Mona Kai 

iii 1 Sutphen t?t harr;? extension 4029. Do you see that, sit? 

:231 

Q 

I::loffice in New York is 4404: that the extension of Ms. Watkins 

Is it accurate sir that your extension at your 

Page 44 to Page 49 OlCStarr 
3408 

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAX(9) 

Page 50 

: : ‘is 4402: and that the extension of Ms. Sut hen IS 4029? 

[?I A That‘s probably correct, bu P anybody uses my 

13: extension. Many ttmes I get m staff to place m 

I 4 ! in my offlce. I’m sitting on a so f a and I say, you Y( 

calls right 

now, 

I j I tall so-and-so, and somebody will go to the desk and place a 

rilcall from m extension. I mean, that’s very common. 

i7: d Now, he IS the layout at your office in terms of 

1 e ; phones? So, I’m assumrng there IS a phone In your physical 

j e 1 office, correct? 

I101 A Yeah. There’s two 

! 

hones. 

( 11 land there’s one on my sofa. And t 

There’s one on my desk 

en there’s, right outside 

[ 12 !my office there’s Deb Nelson, who is the immediate assistant, 

r13lmalnly answers phones and helps out with correspondence. And 

[ I .I 1 then you go to the right and lsabelle Watkins and Mona have 

f 15 1 separate small offices. 

Q And they have phones, each of them has their own 

I:tiphone on their own desk. correct? 

[I81 A Yeah, right. 

1191 Q And wouM your understanding be then that the 

[ 20 1 extension that would be on lsabelle Watkins’ desk would be 

(2 I 1 the 4402 extension, and the extension that would be at Mona 

[221Sutphen’s desk would be the 4029 extension? 

1231 A Apparently. I mean, if you asked me what my 

(24 Iextension number is, my direct extension. I uess it’s 4404. 

r251l don’t know. That’s the number that I call w % en I’m trying 

Page 51 

I I 1 to get ahold of Isabelle. 

121 Cl And is lsabelle the person who normally answers 

[ 3 1 your phone and says, Ambassador - 

141 

IS1 Aa Usually - Richardson’s - office? 

I61 A Yeah, usually I want her to answer the phone 

r-ilbecause I would have something schedule-related. But I 

[ 8 1 usually encoura e her to answer the phone first when I am 

[ glcalling that number. Sometimes it doesn’t happkn. 

[lOI But the point is that my extension is used by 

[ 1 I 1 everybody.. Many people will use that extension to make a 

[ 12 1 call, especlall If they are 

[ 13land-so or Isa elle ma 

(14lthe Se&i8 kuncil. gut. 

In. my office and I say. get sobe In my oftice when I m calling from 

(151 Now. woukf you have a calendar that would reflect 

[ 16 1 whether you were, In fact, in your office on Qctober 21 st? 

Cl71 A What da ts that? 

1181 Q That’s a f uesday. 

I191 A No, I don’t keep records. 

[201 Q Well, you have - 

[211 

Aa Youmeani::;beonagivenda 7 

- a calendar, correct, that shows where you would 

1241 A V&l. lsabelle would keep it. I mean, I don’t have 

[25lOne. 

Page 52 

Q 

1: i the calendar and the fad that we 

Well, remember we talked a few minutes ago about 

[ 3 1 January of ‘98, but we 

I I 1 October. November or 

isi A Yeah. 

161 Q I’m assuming that that’s a calendar that is 

[ 7 1 main!ained by your secretary, but that shows where your 

[ 8 I appointments are on any given da 

I91 A Oh, yeah, yeah. I t 1 

correct? 

..^.Y ought you meant whether I kept 

,L”lK 

Q But to your knowledge there is a calendar kept at 

i ::; least that woukl show your appointments and for example. 

[ 13 1 would show whether you were in D. C. - 

1141 

I151 

; Yeah, yeah. yeah. 

Washington: 

- versus New York? 

A And that’s what we‘ve tried to do in this. I 

rls1que&on until now. 

I :;;thou ht you’d have it, day-byday, between the period in 

I191 Q When 

[ 20 I benchmark dates of &t 

ou reflect back on it, and again using the 

ober 19th on a Sunday as the day you 

(21 I 

[221 ?h 

ot back from South America, and October 23rd. I guess, a 

ursday - 

1231 

A0 Right- - as the day that the press says you would have 

r : : i lefl for the Congo - 

Page 53 

A Right ._ 

_ Q -- do you believe that you would have been In New 

:3-York In those lntervenin days? 

j : A In New ? ork.and Washington probably. 

i: Q Now,, if we direct your attention to Exhibit WBR-2, 

i i ‘which IS the phone list in front of you - 

._ ! Right. 

i? : - and if we look at that first call, where it 

rs’tndicates October 21st. 1997, at 19:01, or 7:Ol p.m., a five- 

[ 1 ?‘minute and 42-second call to Washington. D. C. from the 

j :i jextension 4404 - 

11-7: 

113: A0 Ri - 9 hat ht- has the name of William Richardson next to 

[lc‘lt - 

IiS1 

[i6j Aa Right. - do you agree that that is likely a call that was 

L I7 ! placed from your office, from your phone, on that time and 

rls!date? 

[lS! A Well, it could be placed from another office. I 

I 20 1 think that the 4404 can also be placed from Isabelle’s 

[2:jOffiW. 

1221 Cl Because that’s 

A r 

our line, correct? 

I’31 

1241 - Q 

Yeah, because hat’s my line. 

She has one of your lines there as well? 

1251 A She has one of my lines, yeah. 

Page 54 

Q And I’ll represent to you sir that the m 

ii humber that is there is Monica Le’winsky’s apartment at 

[ 3 1 the Watergate here in Washington, D. C. 

[ 4 1 sir? 

Do you see that, 

(51 A 

Q 

Yeah. No, I see it. 

[61 

[ 7 I Lewinsk 

Do,you believe that ou might have s ken to Manic 

y 

r 

r8jminutes. 

on the rught of October 2 st for approxima p” ely five 

[ iii her, to 

A No. I don’t believe so. I think lsabelle spoke to 

set this to set the meetings up. 

[III BY h;lR. LERNER: 

112; Q Is it possible that Ms. Watkins placed the call 

(13-lfrom your office. had it on the s aker phone and ou were to 

[ 14 1 say some words to Ms. Lewinsgin the course of [hat 

I 1 s I conversation. even though Ms. atkrns placed the call from 

~16jyOUroffb? 

Cl71 A I don’t think so, no. I mean, I don’t, I don’t 

[ 18 I reI?etnber ever talking to her until I actually saw her in my 

I 19 Isuite at the Watergate Hotel. 

~:!{lsabelle. 

You should ask - I 

I 

think your people asked 

mean, this would be easily cleated up by her, I 

[zz]would think. 

I231 Q 

$’ 

Okay. If I could just have a moment here? 

I241 Discussion off the record.) 

I251 Y MR. BIENERT: 

z 

Page 55 

Q 

[ 3 1 the %th. 

So, you then would have left on the trip to the 

i:l’Con o on ap roximately the 23rd coming back on approximately 

Is iP your understandiq th$ pnor !o your 

I 4 I leaving you would have made a 

IS 1 Lewinsky. based on the resume? 

ecIsK)n to tiervtew Ms. 

A 

itime, and after, yeah, that In prina 

Well. in my mind, yeah that after John had asked 

le 

[ 8 1 interview. 

I knew I was going to 

I don’t know f I made P hat decision before I 

i 9 1 went to the Con 0 or not. 

Q 

I ~~hbody on your staff to set u 

1121 A 

2nd then woui,u ,t 

he II 

Yeah. I would_. ave: s 

lave given any instructions 

itervlew? 

to 

‘aid to Isabelle, lsabelle 

ii3jplease set up the intervtew wlth,,wrth, with Lewinsky. I 

_ __ ._~belle, set It up, and then I assume 

that. 

[ 14 ~woukl have Said ta Is: 

rlslshe’d. she” do 

1161 

1171 BYd 

[I81 Q ’ 

K%RNER: 

Wh’; $$d she have placed the call on your line 

rlglopposed to hers IWil 

A She 

I251 Q Okal 

I in m office. 

IlEN F& T: 

1. And now what we are going to do is, we c 

as 

OIC-Starr Page 50 to Page~55 
3409 

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAX((Or 

Page 56 Page 59 

! I ~direct our atte-:-on to what we’ll call Government Exhibit 

i 2 1 WBR-3. 

131 (Exhibit WBR-3 was marked 

11 lyou know, talk herself. Or I’m. you know, reading somethg 

f 2 1 and that frequently happens 

[31 0 Is rt accurate str. that when Ms. Watkrns places a 

[ 4 1 call from the 4404 extension it’s typically because it’s a 

[ 5 1 call being made at your direction. or in relation to 

[ 6 1 somethlngpr you? 

[7i It could be But many times she - sometimes Men 

18 ! I’m not in, in the country or I’m not usin 

(91 uses my office. She used to do that in 9 

my oftice. she 

I Iolplace her calls from m 

he Congress. She’d 

I mean, this is fairly 

1~. 

141 ‘for identification.) 

15: BY VR\BIENERT: 

Ifi! Q Srr. I’ll just ask you to look at this. And what 

i 7 1 I’ll represent to you is that thus IS a summa 

!a; MR LERNER: He has a slight r--. y drfferent version. 

MR BIENERT: 

~{i!correction. 

Okay. Let me see if there is a 

! 1 i i accurate. 

We want to make sure we have everything 

Whaf 1’11 do is place mine. which we’ll say WBR - 

t:iiall right. This 5 the accurate one. Wh don’t we label 

[lslthisone- actua!ly. no, wait a mrnute. Y; hrs IS - so, 

tlslwhich one is - oka Mine is the one that’s wrong. So. he 

; ;;; had the ri$hof& i;erere;go. 

I181 Q !Il place that back before you, sir. 

L191 

1201 Aa %%s WBR-3. Sir, 1’11 represent to 

-dy 

ou that 

f?~)thrs IS just a summary made from phone call reco, s that we 

fzz1got via subpoena - 

[231 

1241 Aa Right. - of calls back and forth between October 24th 

[ 25 1 October 38th of 1997 from the extension with the name 

Page 57 Page 60 

[ 11 lsabelle Watkins. which is 4154402. to Monica Lewinsky at 

fzltwo different numbers; either the Watergate number that we 

[ 3 1 told you before. 

I 4 I office. which is 703-697-9312. ’ 

or Monica Lewinsky’s Pentagon 

[II A The31st? 

121 

r 31 the recordyhat ~~%%%av. 

and we’ll show you that. But that’s 

.-, 

141 MR. LBRNER: Can I step back for a moment? 

and 

i5i A Okay. 

Q And just for purposes of the record, WBR-3 contains 

lflll different ohone calls. Do vou see that. sir? 

A’ Yeah. ’ 

0 And you notice that in terms of WBR-3. all of the 

Iizlcalls are verv short. 

i17i A- Right. 

0 

::89;45 seconds being the 

Rangin? from 30 seconds to, I think, a minute and 

on est correct? 

1201 A Oritcould %e* 

i21 j- yeah. 

that these are recordings. _ right. _ or 

1221 Q Messages, that sort of thing. 

(231 A Yeah. 

Q And with this at least, I realize you didn’t make 

I:: ; these calls, but is that at least consistent with what you 

[lS]callS. 

I161 Q Okay. Now, up until this time, because where we 

[ 17 1 are now is, let’s take us u to the date of the 39th or all 

;;;;~i;;y up to the 3lst of gdober. You are back horn the 

[201 A Right. 

1211 0 And, as you will recall, the 31st of October is the 

[zzlday. Halloween Day, that you adually met Ms. Lewinsky, 

f23jcorrect? 

1241 _. A Was it? 

i25j Q According to your - 

i5i MR. BIENERT: Yes. ’ 

,bl BY MR LERNER. 

t-1 

_ ._ __. ._. 

~~~29th. 

Q Actual1 

% 

I think you returned from the Congo the 

You attended a g gala event for the President of 

I 10 1 re resent that to you, I t Ink. that at least the records 

fs)Cra on the 29th. Is rt psible that you - I can 

IllIre ect that. 

Is it possible that you had an 

! i:i lsabelle Watkins on the 29th and the 3 & 

conversations with 

h about Ms. Lewinsky 

I 14 1 and trying to schedule an interview on the - 

t151 

1161 Aa I - don 31 St? t know. You don’t remember? 

t171 A 

fls)China. 

I don’t remember meeting with the President of 

1191 BY MR. BIENERT: 

I201. Q Well, in fact. I wanted to ask a question, because 

[ZlllMR. LERNER: tt‘s a b’ State dinner. Does that - 

/I think there was a newspaper a rt& 

tz4)dinner for Jian Zemin. 

, them was a bg State 

r251 BY tiR. BIENERT: 

Page 58 

t1 Iwould have expected to ha 

P 

pen, that there would be some calts 

‘12 1 back and forth of a schedu rng-type nature between Ms. 

r .-. 3rWatkins and Ms. Lewinskv? 

A Yeah, because my schedule probably changed and, you 

I :! know we were trying to get coordination for for her to be 

[ 6 1 interviewed by me. because my schedule is’atways &an 

Q Now if 

ing. 

ii ; of them are from or to t 

ou notice in terms of these 11 ca Is, all 

K 

9 

e 41544b2 extension, which is the 

t 9 1 one that comes back to lsabelle Watkins’ name. 

t101that. sir? 

Do you see 

1111 A Yeah. 

Q And I will represent to you that we have looked 

i :: ;over all the phone records we have, and we dii not see an 

t 14 1 records dunng this timeframe, namely between after the ca r I 

1 IS 1 on the 21 st from the 4404 extension up until the call. u 

[ 16 1 until the 30th. we did not see any other calls from the &4 

117 rextension. Okav. sir? iiei A Yeah. 

Q Now, do ou know why, if Ms. Watkins made 11 calls 

~:~~frorn and to her 4402 e xr ensron but we do have a 4404 

fzllextension on the 21st, in your mind is there any rhyme or 

12.2 1 reason to when Ms. Watkins would choose to use your extension 

f231versus her own? 

A She frequently uses my extension. you know. That’s 

if!iall I can tell you. She’ll place a call from my office and. 

Page 61 

Q Were you 

A I don’t thin tFsentat- I was there. 

BY MR. LERNER 

Q Oh, you weren’t? 

A No. 

BY MR. BIENERT: 

1121 A Yeah. I don’t think I was there. 

I131 BY MR. LERNER 

It may have had the guest list and actualty 

om the Congo in time. 

Y MR. BIENERT: 

I171 Q 

A 

Now, up until this time, and we’ll say up - 

I 

i:iidon’t think I wa; r here. 

ou know, I don’t want to get hung up on - I 

Q Up until, let’s say. the 3Oth, 3lst the time when 

i:F:you actually interviewed with Ms. Lewinsky, did’you inform 

I 22 1 anyone who worked at the White House that you were going to 

r231interview y. L;;rnsky? 

1241 

f251 Q Did you talk with anyone at the White House about 

^. 

Page 56 to Page 61 OlCStarl 
3410 

BY Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAX(l1) 

Page 62 Page 65 

_ Ms. LewinsAky. tooget any background on her or anything? 

0 

Lewrnsky? 

Did you talk with anyone at the Pentagon about MS 

; 

.z A $40. 

Q Did you talk to anyone anywhere - 

._ 

.r_ Aa No. -- about Ms. Lewmsky? 

A No. 

‘.I Q Now, I know you referred a few moments ago to what 

: : _ you thought was a subsequent conversation with Mr. Podesta 

::r.about - 

: i 1 Ms. Lewinsky and come back to that. 

;7;31st. 

But now we’re on October 

I101 

(11) AQ To sovyou talk to -- them about fast track. 

1121 Q 

[ 131 throughout the 

So, you had several meetings, it looks like 

da 

[ 14 1 through 12:30-l -0 6 

with. at least the night before and then 

I 15 I correct? 

Aa Yes. - Ms. Lewinskv. Do vou believe that was after the with Congressmen about fast track. 

/ : 5 i interview? 

- . 

. _. .-5. A No, that was before. That was during the trip. 

.._. 

_- Q 

(:3: A 

Oka . Which tdp are we talking about? 

“2’ 0 

Thekin Amenca t!rp. 

Oka So, you drdn t have any - after the Latin 

ii s i American trip, and 

: z: : things o 

t me back up to make sure we are keeping 

anlzed here. The conversations ou just referred 

;zz: to on the%tin American trip, those were aXprior to 

14! 

! 2 3 : receiving y. L;trsky’s - 

!TJ: Q - resume, and prior to deciding that you would 

Page 63 

: : 1 definitely i;tervties.her. correct? 

e-1 _-. 

:3: Q Do you know whether you ever spoke to Mr. Podesta 

: 4 i again about Ms. Lewinsky? 

:5; - A No. 

:6; 0 

;::sure? 

Is that, you did not speak to him or you are not 

A No, I’m, for sure I never spoke to John Podesta 

f ?I fafter the interview. 

. . -1 

i I : f 

Q 

ot 

And you didn’t speak to him between the time 

4 

back - about Ms. Lewinsky between the time you got ba d: 

ou 

; :I : om South America and the interview? 

:lj: A No. No. 

0 So let’s talk a little bit about the interview. 

i il j Who was present? Where was it? How vid, i$F;iipd 

i : 6: let me go ahead and show you a schedule. 

r:::WBR4. 

113: (Exhibit WBR4 was marked 

[:9! for rdentiication.) 

[201 BY MR. BIENERT: 

[2?1 Q .Now, do 

;;:;you would~utr;r5gyhet 7y 

ou recognize, sir. is this a document 

1241 

[2S! 

Q And what is this? 

A Well, this is my schedule for the day that is 

that 

Page 64 

i 1: wwed 2 lsabelle Watkins. 

121 

i3!XlledUle. 

Let’s go ahead and look through the entries on the 

Okay. So, at the top of WBR4.5:15 p.m., 

[ 1c: 7Jrincipafs meetin 

A Ri !t 

on Iraq” - 

Ill1 

[:Z’ 

[l3iheat up? 

Q ls?hat because this Iraq crisis was starting to 

114; A Yes. 

115: Q And I think you told us a few minutes ago that you 

I i 6: remember that thinqs had reallv started to heat UD with lraa 

i I -) j after you got back = 

IlP! - A Yes, sir. 

[:3: 0 By the time you got back - 

1::; 

[::I 

; From the Congo. 

- from the Congo? 

I:-‘: A Yeah. 

123: Q 

A 

7:00 meeting with Mike Parker. Who is Mike Parker? 

I241 

Q 

He’s a Congressman from Mississippi. 

[ZS: And then we’ll pass over the 730 a.m. meeting with 

.~~, ~~ 

1161 A Yes. 

{ :,‘; Earthkind 

Q All r ht. 

National “b 

Then l:OO, speaking engagement, 

‘A Right. 

ress Club. 

[I91 

[ZOl Q You spoke at that? 

[211 A Yes. 

I221 Q And ou flew back to New York? 

1231 A Rghty 

1241 - Q 

(251 

And then this 3:30 meeting of the P-5 re Iraq 

A Right. 

-. .__ 

Page 66 

(11 0 What’s the P-5? 

I21 A These are the permanent five members of the 

j3lSecurity Council: United States, Russia, China, Britain, 

f 4 1 France. It’s the ambassadors that I guess got together that 

isjday. 

j61 Q And then you had a Security Council meeting, and 

[ 7 I that’s United Nations Security Council at - 

(81 

191 : !y&? 

I101 A Yes, right. 

[Ill Q 

rlzlcorrect? 

And then you did a CNN interview later that night, 

[131 A Yes. I guess I did, yeah. 

I141 Q Now, that’s a pre full day, correct? 

[ISI A 

1161 0 

Pretty full day. yes. 

Is thus sort o a tvoltX~t type of day you were 

Page 67 

I I I Lewinsky? 

. . 

121 - A No. No. None at all. 

Q What is your first recollection of how 

i:itold if at all that you were going to be interviewing 

ou were 

I 5 I Lewinsky ori Halloween momin 

d s. 

9 

the 31 st? 

161. A It coukf -what I 

[.I jlrke, to 

hink, what usually happens is I 

18 1 untrl la a 

et - I don’t deal with a schedule of the next day 

e the night before, when I insist on a little card 

[ 9 1 or an exptanatron of the next day’s schedule. 

I101 What usually hap 

f I 11 we’re going to do the next 

ns is Mona S 

8” ay. And I think %at happened 

hen tells me what 

I 12 1 was the first time I knew about meeting Lewinsk 

I 13twas on the plane coming down from, on the shu 

on Frfda 

i le from NY ew 

(14 1 York Mona telling me, you know we got an interview tomorrow 

[IS jwfth Lewinsky; you are meeting this Lewinsky woman tomomow 

r16jat 730. 

1171 And let me also state for the record, because this 

I 18 I has been a source of confusion - can I do this? Can I - 

i19j Q Absolutely. 

1201 A I met with Ms. Lewinsky not for breakfast. She was 

[ 2 11 not, she didn’t have breakfast. I had breakfast earlier. We 

I 22 I met in my suite at the Watergate Hotel, which is not a 

r231permanent surte. where I frequently have other meetin 

I24 jdrd not meet with her in her apartment. I had no idea s 

s. I 

Il 

: 

e 

I 2 s l lived at the Watergate. And I want to stress that it was not 

OlCStarr Page 62 to Page 67 
3411 

BY Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 

Page 68 

XMAX(12) 

Page 71 

a breakfast. It was an IntervIew attended by myself, Ms. 

I Sutphen and Rebecca Cooper 

Q So. Ms. Sutphen and Rebecca Cooper were the persons 

;. who were present, correct? 

A Yes. 

Cl 

’ -was discussed? 

Tell us about the interview. What went on? What 

A Well. the - I remember that either Mona or Rebecca 

;: went downstairs to 

-. -.thtnk I’d already ha 8 

et her and started meeting at 7:30. I 

breakfast. 

: : : about 45 minutes 

I was -the meeting lasted 

I believe I was there listenin 

,I,iRebecca were interviewing her. And t # 

while Mona and 

: :4:at the end to ask some questrons. 

en I came in, I think, 

But I was always 

: :z: listening. I was packing. I was on the phone. 

,.;. _A-. The way the structure of the room is, you’ve got 

; :- : the bedroom, and then you’ve got the little sofas. 

I:? :can see what each is doing. So, I was hearin 

So, you 

But most of 

il?:the interview was conducted b Mona and Re 

I:.‘ Q Do YOU remem t!a 

%e cca. 

i::iher? 

r the topics that were discussed with 

[::I A Well, yeah. Rebecca Cooper, m 

1:3!wanted to establish a new outreach positron. S x 

new chief of staff, 

e asked 

1~14 ; Lewinsky about her background. I remember Coo 

~2s:pattiiularly interested in Lewinsky’s experience WI ?er h the was 

Page 69 

remember her saying she worked for 

t:s~did advance for Cohen. She traveled with the Secretary of 

[:4;Defense. 

1231 She did, she said - I remember in the interview 

f2ilshe said she did the news summaries for Cohen when he did 

[Zi j press conferences overseas, or she compiled something. 

She was impressrve in the interview. She seemed 

~::&oised. professional. And I must say after the interview, I 

[25!was impressed with her. 

Page 70 

Q Now, you mentioned there was talk about some of the 

i:&ings going on at the Pen ta#n. 

t3~either you or Ms. Cooper or 

Doiou knowwhetherornot 

s. Sutp en asked her about her 

t41work at th%PenFeh3n. or was that something you - 

Is! 

15; 

r-1 

i;iPenta 

2 

- asked about? 

I think Cooper asked her about what she did at the 

[ slshe d i% 

on and Mona did, and I asked. I mean, she told me what 

wtth Bacon and she did with - she traveled with the 

[lo]Secretafy of Defense. And she was, at the time, was planning 

[ 11 Ion a trip. The 

r::?her saying tha r 

were going to Asii or somewhere. I remember 

. 

Q Did you or anyone ask her about any of her work at 

I::ithe White House? 

A No, I didn’t. I just noticed that she had worked 

I::iin the Congressional relations office and I must say, I was 

[ 17: impressed as somebody that was &I the Congress. 

IiS: h 

t1c:House? 

Why didn’t you ask her anything about the White 

Well, her last job was at the Pentagon. You know 

you hire sornebod is references are checked 

artment security peop L . And questions 

her references and others are done by 

[ 2 5. was impressed. 

(1. As I said. I Interview everybody that IS a serious 

1:: applicant for a bosltlon wrth me. And this IS. this IS how I __ 

[ 3 1 do thongs 

14: Q Okay. Now, this outreach pr ram So IS It 

[ 5 ; accurate then that at the time you interview 8 her the job 

[ 6 1 that you wtentlally had In mind was some sort of an outreach 

~7; posrtron that would be made in New York? 

!91 A Yes 

19; Q 

I 10 1 that pornt? 

Okay. Did anyone occupy that posrtton up until 

A No. because it was a slot that we hadn’t filled. 

I::jAnd this was a slot that Gina Gnego had and she had left. 

:13!And what we wanted to do was shift this posdion to New York, 

114 Ithe slot. and find a wa 

: lslcould make it. uote t i 

through the personnel system that we 

e outreach position. 

117 1 Washingto?? lnd Gina G 

1161 nego then had done the position in 

1181 A Not to that extent. She had been sort of an 

i23jthis position. 

(241 Q Now, when you say this was a job that was open, 

t25lwere there any kind of job notices that were passed out - 

Page 72 

Ill A I don’t know. 

(21 

AQ 

- stating this thin 

I don’t know but 

as a posit&? 

I:iapplicants or other peo 

P 

le ihat ’ 

% ut I think we had other 

[ 5 1 But I don’t think - no. *t; 

ou know we had in the mix. 

[s]thingS, I don’t think. 

mean. t ere’s no i~otii for these 

Q Well, is it your ex 

Iii there typically are notices post eJe 

rience in government that 

(91 A 

for. government robs?. 

Yeah, but not all pokbcal jobs. PO ibcal jobs, 

Ilolthat is usually not the case. I think C, Schedule C 

I 111 appok&nents. political appointments, I don’t believe they 

(12 Iare necessarily osted. 

I131 Q 

I141 A 

&as this a Schedule C ap 

I think it is a Schedule C. P 

ointment in your mind? 

think Gina had a C, 

ilsjyeah. 

I161 Q 

I 17 lthe mix. 

Now, you indicate that there were other people in 

How tong had you been considering applicants for 

[ 18 1 thts particular posdion? 

(191 A I think not ve 

rzotstarting to get enmeshed in X 

long. At the time we were realty 

e Iraq crisis. This was not 

r211very much on my radar screen. I mean, we were going day to 

rszlda ,20 hours a day. This personnel matter was not btg on my 

[23]ra d arsC4EM. 

And Coo 

I::ipeopte and I don’t, F 

r I think had talked to scme other 

d&t re&mber necessarity that I had 

Page 73 

t I J said, well this is somebody I’m considering for Gina‘s job, 

rztalthaugh i had - as I said, ! think I saw four or five 

I 3 I peop,k during that time penod that, that might have been 

(4 lcandtdates for thts. I. I just don’t remember. I mean, this 

~s~was a big 

Es4 

nod 

I61 

of intensity with the Iraq issue. 

So, 

I 7 1 whether you would K . 

ou don t have any recoIledion then as to 

ave intervtewed any peo 

I 8 I 

P 

arbcular posrbon you were considering for 

191 s that a-rate? 

M?Lf&%k y. 

r101 A That’s probably right, yeah. 

I111 Q One request I woufd make is. can you confer with 

r121your counsel after,we are done and then, to the degree that 

[ I 3 1 you have rnfonnabon relating to other applicants that 

I 14 I tntervrewed for what could be this position. would you 

you 

I 15 I provide that - 

i16j. 

(171 A0 sure. - to the Independent Counsels office? 

I181 A Yeah. Yes. 

I191 Q And is it fair then, purposes of record, 

rzorthat unless 

[211 A That I personallv interviewed or that - 

I221 0 Yes. _ 

1231 A - Cooper interviewed? 

I241 Q- That you 

::slguess I would ask for bo p” h. 

rsonally interviewed. Well, actually, I : 

Page 68 to Page 73 OIC-Starr 
q SA 

3412 

--. Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 

Page 74 

ii! A Oka 

:-I Q TharCoo r interviewed. and then also any and we 

i; jwould want it designate 8” 

! 11 them. Okiy? 

, whether you personally interview&d 

;51 Lceah. 

I101 A That’s right. Yeah. 

!I!] Q Now(, what was said at the end of this interview? 

i 1: 1 How did you leave It with Ms. Lewmsky? 

A I think I - we told her that we would get back to 

i ii 1 her. There was no, you know, no offer made, nothing. We’d 

[ : s iget back to her, that I’d think about it. 

I161 0 Now, after the interview. who if - 

Cl’1 MR. LERNER: Can I just butt in? 

[Ial BY MR. LERNER: 

L191 0 Do you recall any ti?e during the intqview. did 

[ 20 1 Ms. Lewinskdy exr,ss an esr;eual interest ~,n the Unlted 

121 ]Na:ions. or id s e Indicate t at she also mght be 

12 2 1 interested in other positions? 

A No she -well the answer is both. She, she had 

i::ldone her homewo’ti about thd U.N.. about me, that she wanted 

i25]-- she said she was moving to New York She did say she was 

Page 75 

[ I 1 also looking at the 

[z]done her homewo R 

rivate sector. But she did - she had 

She she was impressive in her presentation, as I 

[:;said in her poise. And, as I said, in her background, 

[ 5 1 looking at her background, for a public affairs job. she had 

[6]dOne public affairs at the White House. She had done public 

(7 1 affairs at the Department of Defense. We had a junior Job 

(9 lopen and, and it seemed, afler the lnterwew that I was 

rglsurtably img.$e~;~elENERT: 

[lOI 

ill1 Q Did Ms. Lewinsky indicate how she was going about 

1 - and this was durin 

i i;idid she make any B 

the intervtew with you on the 31st - 

re erence to or give any suggestion as to 

[ 14 1 how she was going about looking into private sector jobs in 

r:s]New York? 

(161 A No. No, she didn’t. 

Q 

[ :i i were impressed with Ms. Lewinsky, t at she had quote, been 

You mentioned when {ou were talking about why you 

r~glpromoted. unquote. What promotron are you referri 

A Well, I’m simply sa 

t:!iWhite House to the Department o r 

ing that she went ?t%the 

Defense. from a staff 

I::; I? 

sition to Director of Legislative Correspondence, to Ken 

acon’s assistant. I mean, this is a better job. And - 

[241 Q So ou viewed that as a promotion? 

[251 A Yea 3 . Yes. 

Page 76 

ii ibefore the 

Cl Did you ever make any inquiries, either if not 

interview then after the interview, with anyone 

]3]at the White House &out the circumstances of her leaving the 

I 4 1 White House? 

[51 A No. 

Q Were you ever told by an 

! t ; been term;ate;zm her employment 

one thqt she had actually 

a r the Whrte House? 

[El 

Q Were you ever told b anyone at the White House 

[ :z;that She was let go from the White x 

; ; ; ; consrderedAsubJzf? 

ouse because her job was 

Q Were you ever told by anyone at the White House 

[ : : i that she was terminated or let go from the White House 

[~s]because she was hangin around the Oval office or where the 

[16)President;aS tN& much. 9 . 

[I71 

I: ii 

Q I believe you told us that you would typically et 

r 

our own impression of peo 

18 

le bu! that you would assume t 4 at 

I 20 1 he State Department wou deck out references and things of 

OlCStarr 

XMml3) 

Page 77 

:: understanding of the rocedure? How does the applicant 

_ and/or resume and In P ormation get to the State Department sz 

i:E:yOU- ~ 

I--- Yaah 

;;:: ‘d 

. _“.._ 

extend the offer? 

[?$i A That’s right. 

i2:: Q Did you extend an Offer to Ms. Lewinsky at the time 

~2::of her interview? 

122: A No. No. 

. Q Afler the interview, did you have any discussions 

izi&ithanybody about Ms. Lewinsky and what you thought of her 

]zs:and what should be done? 

Page 78 

:. A Yeah. I remember, I think in the car as we went to 

;_isee Ben Gilman. or in the car as we went to see these other 

[z;Members of Congress, I asked Rebecca and Mona that were in 

14 ;the car, I said, well, what did you guys think. And Mona 

is:said, I’m impressed. And Cooper said, I’m, I’m im 

]s;think we should hire her. And I said, well, let me t 

ressed, I R. ink 

[::about it, let’s, let’s put it off. 

15: Q 

r5:October 31st? 

Now, this would have been on a Friday obviously, 

1::: A Yeah, I think it was right, right after, you know. 

r:::we jumped in the car. 

Q And then the next working da then if we say the 

!:;;31st was Friday, so that means the 1st was .z 

[ 1c:was Sunda 

aturd’ay the 2nd 

t.I 

and then the 3rd would have been the n&t worlung 

]ls:day, on a AondyaeYvct? 

[lb: 

117: Q 

119; 

I’m goingfto place in front of you - 

(Discussion o the record.) 

[I91 (Exhibits WBR-5 and WBR-6 were 

122; marked for identification.) 

1211 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q Actual 

t? 

why don’t we hold off with those for just 

i::iasecond,becauseI owanttocheckoneotherexhiifi&. 

Actual 

$:ifirst, which we WI ? I 

let’s go ahead with another exhibit 

take out of order. 

Page 79 

[l! (Exhibit WBR-7 was marked 

[2: 

13: 

By MR. &r$$_i_ition.) 

Q Now, I would ask if you would bok at Exhibit 7. 

i:jand directing your attention to - I’ll represent to you 

[sjsir. this is a document that was taken off of the combuter of 

[i]Monica Lewinsk 

is:2 November 19 d 

. If you look at the top of the pa 

7, and it says, Dear Betty. And I? you look at 

e. it says 

I sdhe second paragraph? 

[IO? A‘ Yeah. 

Q I’m going to read that aloud. It sa 

i:iibit nervous this weekend when I realized that Am T* . Richardson 

‘Ibecamea 

[13&l his staff would be in touch with me this” - and KS 

rl4iitalicized - “week.” 

Yeah. 

“As you know, the UN is supposed to be my back up 

VJ has been out of town, this IS my onty option 

ilSi A 

Q 

;:?but because 

[lairight now.” 

119; A who’s VJ? 

[2Cl Well, I was going to ask you that. 

[ZiI 2 Oh. 

[22: Let’s iust continue here. 

(23; 2 Okay: 

0 What should I say to Richardson’s 

!::iwhen they call?” And then you can read the rest o p” 

ple this w&k 

that 

Page 74 to Pa@ 79 
3413 

0.9 Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 

_ 

XMAX(l4) 

Page 80 Page 83 

: : paragraph If you would like. 

.- Then I will also direct you to the very last full 

: < : paragraph. whtch also has a reference to you. And if you can 

‘. . ,just look aithat. I’m gorng to ask - 

:. 

.-, The last one? 

Q The one that is a few - read that second 

.; ‘paragraph. and then I guess the sixth paragraph had 

; 2 : references to your name. 7. _ A Guess she’s not looking forward to coming. ..n. .A-_ Q 

A “&k” 

B that, are you referring to the - 

,... __ ,.-; : I-, 

-:j AQ 

- portion that says - 

“Yuti. 

I191 

I201 

Do y~“u s;z;;,at, sit? 

t211 Q Let me go back up and just ask you. Is it 

rzz~accurate. sir. that durinq the interview-first of all. 

i 23 j let% start over. 

1241 Let’s look at timin?. The interview obviously was 

:25!on Friday. the 31st. correct. 

Page 81 

:1i A Yeah. 

:2; Q Okay. And so, to the degree that the date on this 

[ 3 1 is accurate, whrch I m not necessarily representing that it 

rslis. . 

i51 A 

16: 0 %th&ovember 2nd, which would have been a Sunday 

!7i 

[8! A0 Right- - when it refers in 

! s-j “nervous this weekend when I rea r! lzed that Amb. Richardson 

aragraph two about becoming 

: :c: said his staff would be in touch with me this week” - 

!:I; 

[L‘: Aa Ri?h’. -at IS the weekend that you would have 

: :i i interviewed her, correct? 

[14! ; to response.) 

amely Friday the 31st was the weekend of the 

i : z ; same weekend as November ind? Correct? 

A Would be in touch with me this week.” In other 

~:~~words. the next week. 

Q Ri 

!:i;at least literally. I 3 

ht. I guess there are two components of this. 

we look at the first line of 

121 ~paragraph~~o.;~~.e a bit nervous this weekend” - 

1221 

Q - “when I realized that Amb. Richardson”. Let% 

IZifocus on that part. 

1251 A Okay. 

Page 82 

Q 

I: i the calendar “this weekend” would b& the weekend of the 

Do you agree with me sir that at least based on 

t3131st, 1st. and 2nd? 

(41 A Yeah. 

151 Q And the 31st - 

I61 

I71 

G $p;t$s meeting. 

I81 A Yeah, yeah. 

Q 

[ :iiyour staff would be In touch with her this week. 

Did you indicate to Ms. Lewinskl that someone from 

A I don? think so. I said, I think we said, we’ll 

I::ibe back in touch. 

1131 Q You do believe that there was some reference to 

I 14 1 getting in touch with her, but you don’t believe that there 

I I 5 I was any tigtefraff;h~t - 

1161 

[I71 Q -onit? 

[IsI A I don’t think there was a timeframe. 

I191 Q Okay. 

120: A But you need to ask Mona, but. but I don’t think 

:21) there - I don’t believe there was a timeframe. 

I221 Q If 

[z 3 jwpuid be the fou x 

ou look at that second paragraph, I uess it 

h sentence, tt says. “I had.menbon e&o 

[ 24 I Richardson that working there” - I m assumrng meaning the 

:2s]U.N. - “was one” - emphasized -“of the things I was 

1 looking at.” Do ou see that. srr? 

A dh-huh. 

1 Q Did she rndicale to you that workrng at the U N. 

1 was one of the thrn s she was considering? 

A 

jsector also. 

Yea ;1 She sard that she was lookrng at the pnvate 

Q Okay That’s all the queshons I have on that 

ldocument. 

1 MR. BIENERT: Do you have any more, Mr. Lerner? 

MR. LERNER: No. 

I BY MR. BIENERT. 

I Q You asked who’s VJ. Do you know who VJ is? 

.--. 1 A No. 

114: Q Okay. Now. rf we go to the next two documents that 

[ 1 s 1 the court reporter had prepared, and why don’t we start with 

116 1 WBR-5. If you don’t mind, wh 

I 17 ~going to have you lay it down L 

don’t you read it. but I’m 

cause that’s my copy. 

ii81 Oh, we have an extra copy. Yes. 

i24j 

I251 

- A This one? 

Q This entire document, yes, sir. But I will 

[ 11 represent that this is an e-mail that a witness testified in 

rzjthe grand jux 

Page 84 

was received from Monica Lewinsk 

r31November 5t , in the Far East, which would have 

on or about 

‘6, en November 

t414th in the - 

[51 A She was in - 

[61 - United States. 

[71 AQ - the Far East? 

I E Iwitness. 

Q Yes. Ms. Lewinsky was here according to the 

The witness who got the e-mail was in the Far East 

[ 10 lwhich means the date, based on this document, at the time f&. 

(111 Lewinsky would have sent it would have been November 4th. 

[ 12 1 which I believe, if we use - 

[131 A November Sth? 

Cl41 Q In fact, one of the things I’m goin to do, since 

t 15jwe’re talking about a lot of days, how about rf I B o this 

[ 16jjust to make it easier7 I’m going to put out just a blank 

[ 17 lcalendar Mr. Lemer was 

[ 18 1 the month of November 1 8 

ocd enough to 

97. so we can R 

rovide for us, for 

r~glstraight. 

elp get our days 

!iytwas a Mondav? 

And do you agree with me, sir, that November 3rd 

.--, 

r.721 

[231 

1241 

I251 

A . Yeah. 

Q And then November 4th was a Tuesday, correct? 

A That’s right. 

Q So, November 3rd would have been the first day 

Page 85 

I I I back, at least the first workda back, after you interviewed 

;;;Ms. Lewtniky oiiFiy, Octc&er 31st? 

Q Al?right Now if you can direct your attention 

i :; to the second para raph of the e-mail, and I’m going to read 

[ 6 1 it aloud and then I 19 I ask you 

[ 7 I Okay, sir? Is that okay? 

some questions about It. 

181 - A Yeah, yeah. 

Q 

[ ifi; better than expected. 

It indicates “The job thing on Friday went much 

I 1 I )Thursda 

It whs nice. the big creep called 

[ 12 I I’d soun crnight and ..? ave me a &p talk because I was so afraid 

hke an tdro . Richardson is a great 

I 13 jtwo women who work for him . . . also very coo 9 

uy and I met 

[I 4 I R&a&on called me at work and told me the 

Yesterday, 

r 

were going to 

[ 15joffer me a position . . they didn\ know what ye , and they 

[ I 6 1 wanted to talk with me further.’ 

1221 A Yes. Yeah. 

I231 Q. And obviously Jour name is Richardson, which 

[z 4 1 appears in this e-mail, corred. 

I 

f-251 A Right. 

-_ 

Page 80 to Page 85 OIC-Starr 
3414 

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 

_ XMAX(15) 

Page 86 

Q And n It also accurate. sir. that when 

f Interviewed wrth her. there were two women who wo 

ou 

M 

: oresent at the rntervew? 

ed for you 

A Yes 

Q Ahd that would have been Ms. Sutphen and - 

A And Ms. Coooer. 

Q - MS Coop&~ And I’d also direct your attention, 

w. to the next exhlbd given to you - I’m sorry, the court 

- whrch is WBR-6. 

1: I: November 3rd. 1997. It shows that there was a phone call at 

1: E‘ 11:02 a.m. that lasted two minutes and 54 seconds. And that 

II-:went to 703-697-9312. 

,li‘ 

, --. Do vou see that. sir? 

[Is: A Yeah. 

(2:: Cl .Now. IT! re 

l?* 

resent to you, sir, that that phone 

12: : number isFonFka;wms y s Pentagon office number. 

I,.‘ 

.--. 

123‘ a Ricitit? .~.. 

(I-4: 

t25: 

A Ri?jht. 

Q And let’s go through the details of this. Once 

Page 87 

[ 1: again, 4404. that is. in fact, the extension of the phone in 

i::your office correct? 

c3: A Right Right. 

cr. Q And 11-3-97. if we look at our-calendar. that would 

:s:be the Monday, the first working day back after you 

! 6: interviewed Ms. Lewinsky. correct? 

!‘- A Thars Monday, right. 

Q 

:Zj31st. correct? 

Correct, and you Interviewed her on Friday, the 

[i;: A Right 

11:: Q So, do you agree with me, sir, that this indicates, 

[z.at feast the reference here would be November 3rd. the Monday 

t 12: the first day back, correct? 

Ii41 A Yes. 

Q And that the phone record that we’re looking at is 

i:z;on that date, Monday, the 3rd. correct? 

[I?: A Right. 

i :Ei 11 in 

Q 

(ZOi4404. 

the 

And that it indicates that a phone call was made at 

morning from your phone extension. from number 

121: 

122: 

1231 

124; 

(251 

A Right 

Q That tasted two minutes and 64 seconds. 

A Right 

Q To Monica Lewinsky’s work number? 

A Right 

Page 88 

II! Q 

12:day - 

Sir. is it accurate that you did call her on that 

I3! A III! 

I;; 

g 

and ou offered her a position? 

kneed ro talk to my counsel. 

Q mars fine. 

n we’ll stop when the water comes - 

(15: 

[16! Aa Yeaht - unbi yeah. they go in and out. Okay. Now, the 

t17jquestion that ,I had asked before the break, sir, is it 

t~e~accurate that you called Ms. Lewinsk on Monday, November 

(:9:3d. and you tokl her ou were oing o offer her a position? 

A 

~:~~extension. 

No. dat is a -be sa!ne situation. That is my 

But I do not believe I talked by phone at all 

r22:with Monica Lewinsky. I don’t believe I talked to her before 

[23:or after. That is not my. that is not my recollection 

[ 2 4 : whatsoever. 

(25. Q Is it your testimony, sir, that there was never any 

a.m. 

Page 89 

: : -time when ou had s 

r-. 

oken on a telephone wrth Monrca Lewlnsky? 

L- K P 

I. a time. 

I. I be reve that’s the case, that there was never 

I;‘ Now. there is -- at some point, I did tell Mona 

! 5. Sutphen to call her and offer her the posrtion. 

i {‘Mona Sutphen. not - I drdn’t do it. 

But It was 

I‘ Q And let me go through something wrth you, srr. and 

of this IS accurate. 

1191 First of all - 

1201 A This is before the interview? 

I211 Q 

[Xl3rd. 

No, sir. This would be in reference to November 

123; A No. 

I241 - Q The November 3rd call. 

I251 A No. I would not meet her again. No. 

Page 90 

Q 

I: i Washington the week of November 3rd? 

Do you know whether or not you were going to be in 

A Well I - almost for sure I’d be in Washin 

I:iof the days of the week. But my procedure would have 

ton one 

%een, I 

[ 5 1 would have asked Mona Sutphen to contact her if we had 

f 6 1 decided to offer her the job. 

( 7 : second meetin 

But it wouldn’t require a 

[El MR. SIENERT: 

19 Iwater is bein 

We will go off the record while some 

delivered to the room. 

IlO! & ereupon. 

r1:;a.m. to 11:16:35 a.m. 

E 

the deposition was recesffeajlpan 08) 

[12! BY MR. BI NERT: 

[13I Q Would you have, if you had not done it personally, 

[ 14 1 would you have directed Ms. Sut hen or an one else in 

t1slpffice. on or about November 3r lfcr i 

our 

,.to conta 

[I 6 1 rndrcate to her that you were offenng her a 

Ms. Lewins 

[ 17 1 that you were hoping that - first of all, let’s 

o&ion, and 

y. 

& ke it a 

t1slstep at a tii. 

1191 Would you have directed anyone, like Mona Sutphen. 

1201 to contact Monica Lewinsky on or about November 3rd and offer 

t21lher a position? 

A 

I::iweek or 10 da 

I don’t think so. I think that it took me about a 

(24 1 Monday I wou z 

to decide this. So no I don’t believe that 

have said, offer he; the job. 

1251 Q And so I’m going to go through the rest of the 

Page 91 

I 121do that. M 

il 

executive assistant would do that. 

And the conversation that I’m referring to on the 

I ::I tape continues with Ms. Lewinsky indicating: And then 

r151Arnbassador Richardson said. how do 

I 16]do you,vvant me to tell Ken Bacon. An a 

ou want me to work this; 

Ms. Lewinsky indicated 

r171she sard. no, that she’d take care of telling Ken Bacon. 

118! Dii you ever have a conversation with Ms. Lewinsky . 

I 191when 

rzolshou J 

ou asked her, or words to the effect, whether you 

Inform Ken Bacon that you were going to hire her? 

t211 A No: No., 

Q 

~I:~would be she never indicated to you that s 

[24]same? 

And obvrously i’m assumin@tt$ $zszstimony 

[251 A Right. Correct. 

_- 

OlCStarr Page 86 to Page 91 
BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 

3415 

XMAXHSJ 

Page 92 

[>I Q 

: T j urported call 

And Ms. Lewinsky further mdcates that during this 

ou tndicated to her that you would be calling 

1; 1 E ob Nash. Di i you ever indicate to Ms. Lewinsk 

I J rconversahon vou had with her. that vou would r 

in a 

i5i A . No. 

_ a I Bob Nash? 

I61 Q 

[ 7; Lewinsk 

Did you ever direct Mona Sutphen to contact Ms. 

r 

and inform her that she had the positron, and that 

I 3 I she wou d be contacting - either she or YOU would be 

[ 9 1 contachng Ken Bacon?- 

A No. What I did was I told Mona Sutphen, I think. 

i : y i about 10 days afterwards, after I had taken in Rebecca 

[ 1: 1 Coopefs very strong recommendation that we hire Lewinsky. I 

[I 3 1 decided some 10 da s later. I think, or a week later - it 

[ 1 I 1 was not Immediate; ty. hrs was not on my radar screen - that we 

[ 15 1 should offer her the position. 

And I had Mona Sutphen call Monica to talk to her 

i:t;and offer her the position. And I believe Mona did. I think 

i 1 I, j the records would show that. 

I191 Q Now let me o to the next exhibit. WBR-8. 

[?Ol (Exhibit &R-8 was marked 

1211 for identification.) 

1221 BY MR. BIENERT: 

t231 Q I ask, sir, rf you would lode at that. 

1241 

I251 

A Yeah. 

Q Now, tell me, sir, if you recognize what WBR-8 is? 

Page 93 

I11 A Yeah. This is, this is the thank-you letter she 

1.2 1 sent me. 

Q By that, do you mean that this is a thank-you 

I:iletter that you would have received from Ms. Lewinsky. 

[ 51 thanking you for meeting with her last Friday morning. which 

[6]would be October 31St. amed? 

A Yeah but I could have seen this November 10th. I 

il i mean this is November 3rd. I don’t know. Was it mailed or 

[ slfaxed? It looks like it was mailed. So, I may have seen 

1 ~o]this. you know, two weeks later, 10 days later. 

ILlI Is this a fax, do we know? 

1121 Q I’m not sure. I mean, the copy that I have is like 

[13lyOum 

I141 A 

Q 

It looks like correspondence. 

Well, I think that number at the bottom might be a 

I :z; number either that you put on it or we put on it based on 

[ 17 lproduction from a subpoena. So, I don’t know that that is 

[ 1s 1 something you would normally do. 

[191 A Okay. 

0 And just for the record, let me indicate that what 

i:iithis letter says is, it’s dated November 3rd. It says ‘It 

f221was a pleasure meeting with you last Friday -m&g. I know 

1231 how ve,ry busy and demanding your schedu@ rs; I pticuhiy 

[ 24 I apprectated your taktng the bme to speak wtth me. 

(251 A Right. 

Page 94 

Q Then it says, ‘It was an honor to meet ou. The US 

I: i Mission to the United Nabons is certainly in good ha ncIr s with . 

[ 3 1 you at the helm. A ain, thank you for your ttme.” Then it 

(4 1 says, “Sincerel 

t51 

A k_hl$ca Lewinsky”, correct? 

Q N% ‘first of all there’s a reference here in the 

1; i first sentence to “It ‘was a pleasure meeting wfth you last 

[ 8 1 Friday morning.” 

I91 A Right. 

Q And, again, based on the date at the top, would you 

i : i ; agree that;hat $grrs to refer to October 31 st? 

t121 

Q All right. Now. at the top right of the a 

t : :1’ there's some writing on the 

e, 

t 15lwe’re looking at a copy, but, 2 

ht-hand side in pen. &ej 

at would appear to be pe6. It 

I I 6 I says. Itlo? - M?g;does thts mean?” 

(171 

I181 Q Do &I see that? 

1191 A Yea K . 

I201 Q Whose writing is that? 

I211 A That’s mine. 

Q And that would be a note that you wrote on top of 

l::jthis’document u 

I241 A g. 

n seeing it, correct? 

I-‘51 Q Then at the bottom, there’s another written portion 

Page 95 

[ 11 In the bottom right, that says, “BR - She wrote,thrs note ._ 

,_ 

I 7 ; before weipok;ksst week. Just a thank you. 

I?: 

Id1 0 Do vou see that? 

[51 A Yeah. 

[6i Q 

I 7 1 reference to? 

Okay. Now. can you tell us what that exchange rs a 

is; A Yeah. 1. I belleve what it is, IS that I reoerved 

i B IthIs. She wrote this letter November 3rd. I may have ohen 

t IOII~ a week later or 10 da s later. I think I had already to d 

i 111 Mona. Mona offer her t K 

9 

e job. And Mona -- and so I wnte 

[ 17 1 this note, “Mona - What does this mean?” 

(131 Q 

t 14 lshe had alread 

And is that because in your mind, if you knew that 

been offered the job, his letter seems - 

Cl51 

Cl61 

; beah. 

- rather vague in - 

I171 ; Sort of innocuous. 

1181 

A 

- terms of whether she was taking the job or not? 

Yeah what does this mean. Then Mona 

~:~~writes. ‘She wrote this note before we spoke last week.” 

I uess, 

r211”Just a thank you.” 

30. 

I221 This shows that this letter. we must have gotten it 

[ 2 3 1 about November 10th or 15th or. you know, certainly couldn’t 

[ 2 4 1 have spoken to her the week before she wrote the letter. So. 

[251 0 Okay. Now, when it says, “She wrote this note 

Page 96 

[I 1 before we spoke last week”, what is your understanding of who 

[ 2 1 Mona - the “we spoke” is a reference to? 

I31 A I think it refers to her, Mona and Lewinsky. 

I41 

i5i 

Q About the iob offer? 

A Yeah. * 

Q So. and tell me if this is inaccurate then. The 

176;basis for your being somewhat confused about the letter is 

1 a 1 the fact that 

r 

ou knew, at whatever time that you were 

I 91 looking at it. hat a tab Offer had been extended - 

[101 

- Aa Yeah.. - and In light of the fact that 

I :: ito team whether she was accepting a job o try 

ou were waiting 

er this letter 

[ 13ldidn’t really address the issue and was sort of confusing, in 

f 14 1 terms of does tt mean she’s taking the job or not? 

1151 A That’s right. 

Q 

;:76iyou from Mona is basically explaining why the letter is kind 

And then the reference or I should say the note to 

rlelof strange? 

I191 _ A Yeah. 

Q Namely, she is saying this is a letter she wrote 

I :f i before we namely Mona and MO&a, spoke about the job offer 

rzztlast week? 

[231 A Riiht. R’ ht. 

Q So isLa%othe n accurate that at least based 

t::ion its terms, that \;hatever time it was that yo; saw the 

E 

Page 97 

[I 1 lette!, Mona would have given the job offer to Monica 

( 2 1 Lewuuky the week before? 

I:! 

A Well, I donI knew if it was the week before but, 

[ 5 I 7 etter. ‘. KS SOI? of a nebulous letter. And I’m wondering, 

eah before this letter came to us, because when I got this 

[ 6 swell. what’s what’s the story here, why is she sending this 

[ 7 1 letter. And \ do that frequentl . I put ltttle notations, 

tatwhy. why am I getting this, w$is this coming to me, what 

rsldoes this mean. I mean, I do 

0 

at frequently. 

Okay. Now. whenever it was that the ‘ob was 

i iiioffered to Ms. Lewinsky - and just to kind of bracket I hat 

[ 12 1 time, as I understand your testunony, you do believe that it 

t13lwas probably conveyed - you don’t believe it was as early as 

rlr]November 3rd. as - 

ilSi A R’ ht. 

1161 - P hese documents. at least - 

[171 ; R’ ht. 

-% e e-mail and the phone record of a call on 

i :ii November 3rd. you do not believe that it would have been that 

tzolearty. correct? _ 

[211 A That’s right 

Q 

I::111 daysaftertheinervtewBut ou do believe it could have been roughly 10 or 

r . 

1241 

I251 

A Or a week. 10 to 11 day. yeah. ’ 

Q Which WOUM put us in he tmeframe of, say, 

-.. 

Page 92 to Page 97 OIC-Stan 
ESA 

3416 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 

Page 98 

1: j November 8th to 11 th, correct? 

I_. .-> A Possrbl yeah. 

:3i Cl Okay. but your - 

(41 A YOU are askrng me about something that was not on 

: 5 I my radar screen. I mean, this was a very intensive period. 

! 6 1 Monica Lewmsky was far from my mind when - in trying to 

! 7 ianswer these questions. I mean. you understand that. 

is1 Q Now, who was it that 

! 9 Iwhich youpdrcated. I,do intend to o x 

ou had the dtscussion wrth in 

er her a posrtron? 

[IO! I thmk It was Mona. just Mona and m self. 

ili] Q 

[ : 2 j you can recall? 

Okay. And what was it that you told Kn ona. as best 

A I think it was, Mona, I think we ought to go with, 

i ::; I want to go with Lewinsky, why don’t you call her. I think 

f 15 1 it was somethin to that effect. 

0 

ii76jMona planned to offer her. 

Wnd what s~cifically was the position that you and 

1181 A Well, the 

11gjGina Griego that would 8 

osition was a slot previous1 

eal wdh outreach. It would ie 

h;tss 

fzojin New York. And it would involve making sure that our 

[ 211 personnel s stem made the adjustment. 

;f:;the tape ,f!$ BlENERT: Is this a good time to let you change 

(241 ’ VIDEOGRAPHER: Certainly. 

1251 MR. BIENERT: Is that okay with you, Ambassador 

Page 99 

[I 1 Richardson? 

I;; 

THE WITNESS: Yeah, yeah. 

[ 4 1 until 

(Whereupon, the deposnron was recessed from 11:27 a.m. 

11:29 a.m. for a videotape change.) 

151 BY MR. BIENERT: .-, 

Q Just for the record during the short break, you 

I76iwere looking at some of the exhibits in front of you, and I 

[ 8 1 think you’ve indicated that you wanted to make a comment? 

A Well, eah. I just wanted to make a comment here 

I iiiabout this note from I ewrnsky to Betty. “I realized that 

111 IArnb. Richardson said his staff would be in touch with me this 

1 lzlweek.” I think that’s probably accurate that I said that to 

rl3lher. 

1141 Q 

A 

Meaning durin the interview? 

Yeah that we 13 be back in touch with her that the 

i:z{staff would be back in touch with her. I don’t think I said’ 

[ 17 1 this week. I just wanted to oint that out. 

I181 Q Okay. Anyt I! rng further on that, sir? 

t191 A No. 

Q Okay. You can go ahead and set some of those 

t:!{exhibits aside if ou want, just so that they are not in 

t22)yourway so niuX. 

1231 MR. LERNER: 

MR. BIENERT: 

Just one more question about this. 

For the record, we are looking at 

i:!iWBRB. which is the thank-you tetter. 

Page 100 

Ill BY MR. LERNER: 

Q It’s m experience that if I send a letter from 

I:iWashington to New + ork that it takes a few days. So, is that 

t4 j your expenAenceya.+ho? 

151 

Q So if I were to send a letter November 3rd it 

i76iprobably would &received, say. November 6th. on averabe 

tsjobviously. 

A Yeah, and then it’ll get processed by my staff. 

(:~~So,itcouldbeafewmoreda s. 

Ill1 Q Oh. so it coul cfy be a few more days after a letter 

i 12 jis received that ou would actually see it? _ 

f131 A qeah. yeah. 

0 Okay. And you would say that seven to 10 days 

[::;after the interview which was the 31st ou would think that 

[ 16 I Mona Sutphen laced a call broaching’t e rssue of a job? 

1171 A 

Q 

fthink so yeah. That’s !&I recall 

Right. The fact that there are no phone calls in 

I : i i that period, between Mona Sutphen and Monica Lewinsky, does 

[ 2 o 1 that suggest that that memory might be inaccurate? 

A Well I don’t know. What is, what are the phone - 

I::{when does it indicate she called her? 

Q There is a later phone call, but nothing in the 

i::;period that you are su gesting. 

(251 A Well. w 3, at, two weeks? 

XLuJ!171 

Page 101 

:11 Q There IS a call much later on. 

!2i MR. BIENERT In fact, I think we have It. -_ 

I3! MR. LERNER Itwas 11-14- 

141 THE WITNESS So, two weeks? 

[5! MR. BIENERT- We were gomg to get to that 

[61 BY MR BIENERT. 

IT! Q So, the progression of calls. and I thank we are _ 

[ a I it’s not like we are holdrnq out anv calls - 

!9j $ Yeah. No: no. no: 

- that were made. We had the call that 

1 iY j from extension 4464 - 

1121 

[131 Aa Right. - on November 3rd. 

Cl41 A Right. 

I151 0 Then we have another call that we have 

[ 161 Lewinsky’s Pentagon office. and we might as well pass 

[ 17 lover now. That WIII be WBR-9. 

f181 (Exhibrt WBR-9 was marked 

I191 for identification.) 

r201 BY MR. BIENERT: 

we show 

;?a~ Ms. 

i21j Q Let me just go ahead and hand that - 

(221 A Well, I just want to stress that the 4464 calls 

t23jdoes not mean that I make the call. I mean, we’ve 

124 jestablished that, or I have, at least. 

I251 Q Well, you have said that. That’s your testimony 

Page 102 

I11 A 

Q 

I said that, yeah. 

And we have WBR-9. which has just been placed in I:; front of you. And if you look at the bottom of the page, we 

I;; have hrgh~ht$;h~ll. 

Cl 

I ,” ; Pentagon office - 

And that’s a call, this is from Ms. Lewinsky’s 

(81 A R’ ht. 

t91 Q --To 212-415-4404. 

I101 A R’ ht. 

I111 Q &ch is y our extension, or at least the number 

[ 12 1 assigned ti youG:xtysion. 

[I31 

[I41 Q On November 14th. It was a one-minute and 41- 

flsjsecond call at, it looks like, 2~30 in the afternoon. 

I161 A Right. 

Cl71 Q 

A 

Do ou see that, sir? 

1181 Yea x 

;:&how. 

Q So, that would have been the next call that we 

1211 A Right. 

Q 

~::~calls that we have. 

And then we’tt show you as we go along an other 

I think the next call that we sbow wou d 

~24 jhave been on November 19th.. So, that’s realty the timing - 

I251 A This is her catttng us? 

Page 103 

Ill Cl 

12 1 guess we’ll 

Right. And then the cafl on November 19th which I 

f3)call WBR-1 8 

ive you now, so we can get to them. which we?l 

I41 (Exhibit WBR-10 was marked 

r5i ‘for identification.) 

f61 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q 

Ii;the page you saw ea rer actually, but just high@hted 

And tip look at ihat. this is another copy of 

fsldifferently. 

t101 - A R’ ht. 

Q AR-10 shows the one, two, three, four. fifth call 

f::;at the bottom - 

il3j 

(141 “0 Yeah. IS a November 19th call from the extension 

[ 15 1 assigned to Mona Kai Sutphen - 

1161 

t %‘_, which is Ms. Lewinsky’s 

I : i ; Watergate residence address. 

1191 A Right. 

I201 Q So, that’s the series of calts that we show. at 

[21 lleast up through that 

P. 

art of November. And why don’t we 

[221show you the next ca I, just so we have completed all the 

[ 2 3 1 November calls that we have. 

I241 A Ri ht. 

I251 Q W?tich we’ll call WBR-11. 

OlCStarr Page 98 to Page 103 
3417 

q SA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4/30/98 

Page 104 

XMAXfII) 

Page 107 

0 But the jobs were different? 

The jobs ulhmately would be different -_ 

.J z And they would -- 

.; A But the sala would be bascally the same. 

z Q So, I! would X 

: e -different re;ponsrbrlrtres 

e a slmliar salary. It would have 

.- Different responsibiktres 

1;. Q 

:>:York - 

And it would be located In a drfferent city, New 

[ :,: : A Yes. 

:, 1. j*- 

1::‘ 2 

- as opposed to Washington? 

Yes. 

;:3: Q And is it accurate, sir. that you did not interview 

i 14 : any one else for that slot/position, whatever we want to cali 

[Ijlit? 

t15: A We had other emplo 

( 17 ! working closer with me. A man by t 

ees that were interested In 

K, name of Paul Aronsohn. 

[~e:who.Cooper ako liked, who was working in the political 

;;;!secbon at the Missron, and who Coo 

I- he was somebody that she would Ike to wcrk under him - 

[I 1 j under her. 

Ixs 

r also told me, she was 

!.: (Exhrbrt WBR-11 was marked 

i’ for identification.) 

, ;. 

.-. BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q WBR-11. sir, is a phone record if you look at the 

/: i hrghlighted porhoq indicating a call - all of these calls 

) i I are from Ms. Lewrnskv’s Pentagon phone number. 

j-1 A 

_ 

i31 Q 

: Q !extension, 

%%241!54029 which again is Ms. Sutphen’s 

a six-minute call on Nbvember 24th. at lo:14 in 

; 1 o I the morning. 

jl:! A Oka 

I:?) Q So rhen I guess to summarize the progression of 

! I 3 1 calls that we show in the month of November, is we have the 

i 14 iNovember cat&fm~~ extensron 4404 to Ms. Lewinsky. 

1:51 

1161 Q d then have the November 14th call - 

117i 

I181 

Aa “_ih’- 

i 19 j extension 4404 

om MS Lewmsky’s Pentagon extension to 

our extension. _ 

i?Ol A &en is that the 18th? 

,711 .-- 2 Q That’s November 14th. 

I221 A Oka 

Q We {hen have a November 19th call from Ms. 

ii: j Sutphen’s extension to Ms. Lewinsky’s home or. sir, I should 

(: 5 1 say home phone number in Washington. 

Page 105 

I11 A Right. 

0 And then finall 

/:I I thank it was on the 24th the t: 

in the month of November we have, 

ovember 24th call from Ms. 

I ,-, 4 1 Lewinskv’s ~~ work number’at the Pentaaon to Ms. Sutohen. 

I51 ’ A Okay. 

0 All-nght? Now let’s go back to when you would 

Iti have had the discussion with bs. Sutphen - 

181 

Aa Rightz 

8 - 

mdrcating to her that you were inclined or were 

r i,‘i oing to direct her to offer a job to Ms. Lewinsky. Okay? 

1111 r. to state it differently,, the conversation you had with 

(12 IMS. Sutphen when you indicated your intention to offer a job 

I .~.. I 3 I to Ms. Lewinskv. 

(141 A R- ht 

Q 02 : In that conversation is it accurate that 

I :zi Ms. Sutphen told y”oyu at that point words to the effect of 

I 17 Iare YOU sure YOU don’t want to interview any other wo&? iiej - A _ I don’t remember that. _ ’ 

Q If Ms. Sutphen told investi 

~:~~lndependent Counsel’s, when et? 

ators at the 

interview , that that is what 

[z 11 she said to you, do 

122 ladamantly believe ity 

ou believe that it was said; do you 

was not said; or do ou not know? 

I231 A i! . No. 

Q 

No. she might have said 

In any event is it accurate that at whatever time 

$,ithat conversation was bad, you had concluded that you weren’t 

___-_ 

Page 106 

f 11 oin to interview other people, but you were going to hire 

,2,&s. fewinsky? 

A Yeah. I think Igota ood senseofLewinsky. I 

iilthought it was time to move on. Yea 9, . 

Q Now, let’s talk a file bit about the position. I 

izl)think you described a lii while ago that she was taking 

[ 7 1 the position of another lady - 

181 A Regina Griego. 

[91 0 

rlolcorrect? 

Okay. Regina Griego had been in Washington. 

t111 A Yeah. 

I121 0 And that this was - 

A She was taking the slot. I mean we were going to 

i : : { redefine the position to do more outreach to do public 

[ ISI affairs, to do advance. So. I mean, I wani that established. 

[ 16 1 Rebecca Coo r had wanted that and I had agreed with that. 

;:iiLewinsk 

An&en Rebecca Cooper after we interviewed 

I 19 1 took tha r* 

told me I think she’s the &St one I like her I 

very much into account. But it was’ultimateli mv 

i20 jdecision. - 

- _ 

Q So. she took a slot. Namely. she became an 

15: iemployee after Ms. Griego had terminated her employment - 

I231 Reht. In other words - 

I241 

; 

- with your ofice in Washington? 

[?51 A -we had, we had a slot. 

[2,‘! But we also - what happens is, I have a pool of 

(3 i people that I tatk to. in terms of applications. And I 

[24 1 remember somebody that l’m impressed with. This is why I’m 

[ 2 5 1 constantly interviewing people. 

il5j A 

Q 

That’s right, yeah. 

I%3,ct? 

Ms. Lewmsky was going to be based in New York, 

ilBj A 

0 

She was going to be based in New York. 

1191 Now, Mr. Aronsohn. where does he work? 

t201 A tie’s in New York. 

Q 

I:: ;Aronsohn? 

In New York. When was the position filled by Mr. 

I::;1 think. 

A February, March. What month - February or March. 

1251 Q And what’s exactly his title? Does he do exact& 

Page 109 

I 4 I supervise other 

iziin Washin 

Q &%%e been in the New York office before or was he 

on? 

I71 tt 

Q 

No, he was in the New York office. 

Was he under consideration for this position at the 

ii;time that you determined to make the offer to Ms. Lewinsky? 

A I don’t know. I mean I don’t know what Cooper was 

[itithinking of. I kind of left that position up to her. You 

[ 12 I know, 

r13,isgooJ 

ou may wan: to ask her. But she lied this guy. He 

And she wanted to sort of put him under her aegis. 

[ 14 ~That was what she was trying to do. 

Q Now, whenever it was that you decided to make the 

i iz ; offer to Ms. Lewinsky and however it was conveyed did you 

[ 17 1 have in mind any time parameters within which you would want 

;;;;her to takzthee? 

I recall. I told Mona, I said,. offer her the 

[zoljob. And, you know, we were startin 

(211 a very inte+e period of Iraq. A lot o 3 

to get tn the midst of 

other things that 

ndmg were put on the shelf. I recall Mona comi 

I::$% r o me and saymg well Lewinsky has asked for a I %e 

[ 2 4 ) time to think about it: ihe appreciates the offer; she wants 

[:slto think about it And so, I said. all right, well. 

- 

Page 104 to Page 109 olcstarr 
Page 110 

iii. And then we had Iraq. And at one point. I recall 

[ 2 1 In December Cooper came to me and sard. well. you know, 

[ 3 1 there’s some problem wrth the slot. You know, the Civil 

(4 ;Servrca. I’m having difficulty shifting it from Washington to 

[ 51 New York and, you know, you may have to intervene and fix it. 

[61 And I think that triggered in my mind, during this 

j 7 every Intense period with Iraq, with Mona Sutphen, I said. 

[ 9 ~Mona. what’s happened with Lewinsk 

( D Iou know. she’s, right now she said s 

rX 

She said, well,, she’s, 

e wanted more trme to 

1 I o 1 hrnk about it. I said. well, the hell with this we’ve 

: 111 to get movrng. Tell her to fish or cut bait. Tell her 

ot 

w at, 

t 1: lyou know, we have to move on. Tell her, does she want the 

: I 3Ijob or not. And Mona, I think, did that. 

I think this was right before the holidays and 

I :lishortly thereafter she informed me that Lewinsky had was 

[ 16 1 looking for things in the private sector and she wouldr;‘t be 

117 1 taking the ‘ob. 

I181 h Now, did - 

A But I told Lewinsky, I told, I told Mona tell her 

~:~~to fish or cut bait. And I think what triggered it was was 

(2 11 a discussion with Coo 

P ” 

er telling me. well, you know. this 

(22 1 position that we want o do, rt s not that eas to shift the 

t23ljob from Washington to New York, and I’ve r alked to Wayne and 

t24t- so, I think Wa ne L sdon. m administrative gu was 

tzsjexplaining what KO?l ad to e done r or that to happen, Il;ecause I 

Page 111 

[ 11 wanted to keep that slot as a oliticel slot that I could 

~7 1 name the person. And I didn *P want to get it into a 

I 3 jcomplicated personnel situation. 

So I wanted it fixed and it wasn’t fixed. And so 

i:lfor that reason it trig 

ii 

ered 

[ 61 happened to Lewins 

in my mind, well. whatever 

y and this job. And that’s when I toM 

17 1 Mona. tell her to fish or cut bait. Is she coming with us or 

tslnot. I mean, we can, we can only wait so long. I think we 

(9 1 had waited about a month or so. 

[lOI BY MR. LERNER: 

0 Is this sometime - you said sometime before the 

I ::; holidays. p yyeFhean the Christmas holidays? 

I131 

(141 Cl So, this is mid-December? 

[151 A Yeah, close to the holidays, yeah. 

[161 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q Now let’s kind of focus on the time, In the time 

i :,‘; between whenever ihe job offer was extended, sometime between 

rlslthe interview up until, lets say. November 10th 11th. 12th. 

tzotwhatever the timeframe was n there, through the time that 

t21 J ou believe was dose to the Christmas hokda 

t22 I r; asrcally . told Ms. Sutphen, get in touch with hr 

when you 

s. Lewinsky 

t231about fishing or cut bait, do you know - as we’ve seen 

124 jthere were some cells back and forth, as you can see from the 

I 2 5 1 phone records, correct? 

Page 112 

111 A Yeah. 

Q Do you have any recollection of whether or not Ms. 

! : i Sutphen or anyone else was sort of updating ou other than 

[ 4 1 that original time when an offer was made a d that final time 

tstwhen you said to Ms. Sutphen, tell Lewinsky to fish or cut 

i 61 bait, do you believe that you got any re 

t7 J I’ve heard from Monica again, she wan I? 

rts like,, well, 

more bme; or, she’s 

[ 8 1 still tying to figure this out; or anythmg along those 

tgjlines. 

A Well, yeah. I Mona did tell me she said at one 

I:Fipoint she said, she wants more time- she war& us to to - 

t12jshe wants ttme to think about it. I think this is what she 

t lxlsaid. So. that would been one update and Mona may have been 

[ I 4 1 trying to reach her to ask her that. And then Mona updated 

rlslme. 

OIC-Starr 

3418 

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAXIISI 

Page 113 

(1; Q Now. I’m assumin that gettrng a ‘ob wrth the 

~2 IAmbassador to the UN the kin B of lob you are 1 alking about _ 

[ 3) consrdenng Ms. Lewmsky for. those jobs are pretty much In 

{ P jdemand, czrrect? 

ii: 

I 6 I demand. 

Yeah. they’re in demand, but not terribly in 

ii: Cl 

{ 3 1 good man 

V 

I mean. IS 1: accurate that.you typically get a 

[ 9 1 ultimately 

more appkcants for any postbon than you 

1117 

1101 A Yeah. Yeah. but d's -- you are not deluged. men 

[ 111 there’s an adverbsed posltlon. when there IS an 

[ 12 lambassadorship.or my chref.of staff position, or my executive 

[ l3ldtrector posrtlon In the Washmgton office, press, director 

114 1 of press, yeah, there’s a lot of people that apply. But the 

[ 15 1 lower-level 

[ 16 1 aren’t a hel I 

obs. the lower-level. like this one was, there 

of a lot of applicants. 

Page 114 

c 11 He’s a friend. We work together. He asked me to interview 

[ 2 1 somebod 

(3 1 a friend o r 

that he was interested in, and he mentioned she was 

Betty Curries. As a courtesy, I extended that, 

[ 4 1 that effort. That’s all. That’s all that ha 

Sir, after you extended the - or after you told 

[ 14 1 Mona Sutphen to call up and extend the offer, did you before 

c 15 1 that ever call Ken Bacon? 

I161 

I171 

r1s1 

1191 

t201 

1211 

I221 

t231 

A No no. 

Q 

A Did rask who? 

Did ou ever ask Mona Sutphen to call Ken Bacon? 

Q Ask Mona Sutphen to call - 

: No. - Ken Bean? 

A No, no. 

Q lsabelle Watkins to call? 

1241 A No. 

1251 Q Is it your standard practice, before extending an 

Page 115 

111 offer, to not call the person’s current employer?’ . 

A 

I:itheir employer. I hired Rebecca Coo r 

(4 jemplo 

Y 

er, 

Yeah. I’ve hired a lot ~peo&~;~~z41irq 

Is&eke Watkins. I know t ese - some oft e 

I 5 1 times know these peo 

P 

le previously, or I get a gut instinct 

[ 6 1 in the interview. And I Ike the person, I go for the 

I191 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q 

I:fjwould have had any tele 

On the issue, back on the issue of whether you 

tzzjfirst of all. I think you to lcP 

hone conversations with Ms. Lewnsky. 

us earlier on that it wouldn’t 

t23]be UnUSUal Or Out of the qUestion for you perhaps t0 Call an 

124 Iapplicant on a phone about their resume, or about something ’ 

[ 2 5 1 related to their interview, correct? 

Page 110 to Page 115 
3419 

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAX SI 

Page 116 Page 119 

A No. When I will call a person it WIII be to say, 

. 1 I’d like to intervtew you, are ou interested. that’s the 

I reason I would call somebo d y. But after the interview, to 

’ sort of close the deal -well, no. There have been times 

; when I’ve done it,myself. 

.; Q I guess what I’m - and let me lust ask it thus 

‘. way. When you say you don’t believe you spoke to her on the 

: phone, IS that because you feel like you have a clear 

? recollection and you are clear that you have never spoken to 

: 1. her on the phone? Or is that just more, you don’t ty 

:; do that, and you don’t really remember one way or t 1 

~cally 

e otner. 

: : r : but you don’t think you would have talked to her on the phone 

: I 3 : because it’s not your prachce? 

A Its not my practice. I, I, I am almost cartarn, I 

i iilarn certain that I didn’t talk to her on the phone. I talked 

I : 6: to her twice; once in, in the interview; and another time, 

I. - .November 15th. I remember. This was my birthday. I went to 

if : ‘dinner with my wife at Club Twen -One and she was there 

[ ; 3: with. with her mother and some o %ar gy. And she yelled at 

:2; :me. And I went from my table to her an 

j 2 : : greetings. 

we just exchanged 

,_~. I--_ Cl So that - 

‘9’7: _--_ A So. that was like a verbal communication. 

:24; Cl Well let me focus on that for ‘ust a second. 

:: 5 : because in terms of running into Ms. Lewins I, y at the Twenty 

111 Q Well. we’ve shown you - 

I:! BY MR. LERNER: ._ 

I31 Q The call from Mona is November 19th. 

(41 BY MR. BIENERT 

Q Well, but we have,- I mean, the calls - if the 

Iz 1 issue is. w; don’g;;ow who is ustng your phone - 

171 

cl - extension 4404. we have a call on Novembe_ 3rd. 

189iThen we have another call on November 19th. The Novembe- 3rd 

(10 lcall is from your extension. The November 19th call is from 

[ 11 ~Mona’s extension. And those are the only records that at 

[ 12 1 least we are aware of that indicate calls from your office to 

[ 13 1 numbers that we associate with Ms. Lewinsky. 

I141 I will state to you, and this is another thing that 

[ 1s 1 Iwould ask 

.g 

ou. certainly we would want to know if there is 

t16lmore. I thrn that we recently did issue another subpoena to 

t17jget. to make sure that we have any and all calls. And the 

118 lone request I would make of you, d you could talk with your 

tlglattomey IS. because it is important to us to know that we 

[zo] have the entire universe of calls between your office and Ms. 

[ 2 11 Lewinsky - 

I221 A 

Q 

We, we - wouldn’t you have that already? 

1231 I believe we do. But you are asking us about Mat 

124 lcalls there are, and I’m basically tellin 

[25]we are aware of. And the only Issue t % 

you the ones that 

ere would be if there 

Page 117 

! : ; One Club now, on November 15th. based on what we’ve 

-) : discussed before do you agree that this is 

; 5 i likely after the offer had been made to her? 

a time that is 

:. - ;4: A I don’t know. 

,c- 

,.-_ Q 

:5: A 

We& when we spoke a little earlier, you - 

IsatdlOdays,aweekorlOda s. 

._. Q After October 31st. So. that go r us up to like, I 

i 5 i think we were saying the 8th through like the 11 th or the 

13: 12th. 

. ~. 

.--. A 

Q 

Yeah, it could be. Yeah, it could be. 

,... Do you think that you mtght have said something to 

iii i the effect to her, in the presence of the other peo le there. 

[:3; like, hey, and hey, the balls in your court, or wor s s to 

I : I : that effect? 

Page 118 

[ : 1 impressive daughter, or somethi 

12: But I, I don’t think I sa I? 

like that. 

r3:that. It was, it was in a restaurant. 

anything more than 

Q Okay. 

j:iVemon Jordan. 

All right, lets shift gears a little bit. 

;6: 

;3j 

(Exhibit WBR-12 was marked 

for identification.) 

MR. BIENERT: 

iiisorne questions? 

This is VVBR-12. Mr. Lemer. you have 

BY MR. LERNER: 

offered something” - yeah, well, 

r-3 Lb_ . you’ll have to ask Mona. I mean. isn’t - 

ip;- 0 Ri ht. 

:23: A Is Q ere a call from -when did Mona call her? Do 

124!we have - 

125: BY MR. BIENERT: 

Page 120 

[ 1 lare some other calls that you have records of, certainly we 

12 Iwould ask that ou produce them. 

[31 A 

Q 

Well no. I don’t have any other. 

So, anyway those are the two dates in the morth of 

I:jNovember that we are aware of, the calls coming from your 

[6]0fflrX - 

t71 A The 3rd and the 19th? 

Q Yes. And then we had - because the ones on me 

Ii; 14th and the 24th. I believe, were from her extension to you 

r101guys. 

A Well, it could be that, that the call - somebody 

t::{called her and she returned the call and got the offer in the 

113 ] return call. I don’t know. Right? 

[I41 Q Well, we’re not going to speculate. 

t151 A Yeah. 

Q 

!:76;this: However it was done, it was initiated, the offer was 

But I guess the point is, would you agree with 

[ 1 B 1 initiated byAYou;zFhze in a call? 

1191 

Q AMI so we are telling you based on the information 

i:i;we have, which records we have showing calls from your 

122lOffice. .--.~ ~~ 

I.231 A Yeah. 

I241 

1251 A” &%kM be that the offer was made in a retun 

Page 121 

I I 1 call from Lewinsky to my office. 

I21 

2 %?tyl it might not have been done in the call 

! : i that we initiated. Now I can’t say whether November 18th 

[sIthat she’d been offered this. I mean, I. I don’t remember on 

[ 6 1 the 15th sa 

[7 ] I think I 

ing to her, the offer, the ball’s in your court. 

sa icr that I thought she was impressive and - you 

[ 8 1 know, I, I can’t remember all this stuff. I mean, I’m 

[ 9 jdealtng with a national crisis, believe me. 

[I01 Q Oka . 

[111 A Yea K . 

Let’s shift gears to discuss Vernon Jordan. 

1121 Q 

A 

How well do you know Mr. Jordan? 

I::ieight. nine 

Well, I’ve known him for about, I would say about 

ears. 

61 

!:ziyour relationshi 

Why don’t you tell us how you met him. Describe 

wrth him. 

A fwould say we’re friends colleagues. I would say 

!:iithat I’ve looked to him for advice. He h6s helped me with 

[ 19jcareer advice. He’s - I remember when I was staffing my 

tzojambassadon. I called him for sug estions. I have been a 

I 2 11 

3 

uest at his home when the Prest 8 ent was first ejected in 

1221 992. We know each other. But I wouldn’t call ourselves a 

t 23 1 very dose relatiinshi 

But I’ve cal P ed him for advice. I always find him 

i::;to be very politically astute and, you know, we discuss 

’ 

Page 116 to Page 121 OlCStan 
BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson. 4/30/98 

Page 122 

‘. policy and polihcs 

: !. relabonshi 

But it’s not a very frequent kind of 

7’ 6 NGH begtnntng with when ou took over as 

:;-Ambassador up tnrough. say, January oft K. IS year, how many 

.s : times would you say you have spoken on the phone with Mr. 

: -. Jordan? 

,- A ‘Stnce I took over as Ambassador? 

!S‘ Q Yes sir. 

‘2’ A On the phone? 

/.-’ 1-- Q Uh-nuh. 

:;:: A Two three times. 

!:I’ Q And then how many times would you say you have met 

[ 13 with him in person since taking over as Ambassador7 

A Weil. we had breakfast once at my residence. I, I 

i t 5 j had, I was in the month of December kind of lookin for some 

t14:career advice, and I had wanted to 

1 I- 1 in Washington. And I recall we 8 

et together wrt .i! hrm here 

ma e a date and then we had 

112 1 to cancel. Then hrs office, I think, told us he was going to 

t :glbe in New York. So. I invrted him to breakfast. 

_\ When else during that year? I remember going to 

Is;; his office ri ht before ! was confirmed. And then I saw hrm 

t~iat a party a ?I out a month a 

9 

o. That’s it. 

I231 And I. and I. but may have seen him at White 

I 24 1 House State dinners or receptions. But no, no conversation. 

I251 Q Okay. When you need to get in touch with Mr. 

Page 125 

0 And I’m gorng to maqe a few other representatrons 

: to yc, and then I’m going to ask ycJ some questions _ 

I’ll also represent to you !nat we’ve had 

; -test:-onial evidence as well as douments rndicatin 

! 

that Mr 

! Jorua’l met with &lonic+a Lewrnsky on December 11 t , dlscussed 

r with %r poAsslble jobs In New York 

Q 

Right. 

And let me ask you a 

9 

uestion first, sir. Have you 

:-come to any understandlng. whether I be through press 

. accounts or any other sources, tha: Mr Jordan alleged1 

11 plac& any r made any efforts to n&p Ms. Lewrnsky ge 

1: : at any rndrvrdual companres In New York? 

r a job 

__ 

: A Yeah. throuah Dress accounts 

,. .- Q 

.--. A 

And what tim’ anles. to your knowledge, was that: 

I don’t know. B ubkc relations. 

.--. Q Based on the press accounts you’ve seen, are you 

: : -: aware of allegahons that Mr. Jordan placed calls to Young & 

: : 5 I Rubrcam. American Express. and Revlon? ;.-. .-*. A Well, I know throu 

::r;donY know the companies. I don s 

h press accounts. But 1, I 

remember. 

._.. .--I Q All right. Well, I’ll represent to you, sir, that 

::r :we’ve had at least testlmon , just by way of background, that 

I: 4 : Amencan Fprgs,;nd F&&nJordan to ‘Oung ’ Rubicam’ 

: I 3 ; there were calls placed b 

._<. i--_ 

3420 

XMAX(21) 

Page 123 Page 126 

t : 1 Jordan, are there any particular locales or numbers that you 

[z 1 have your secretary call him at? Do you call him at home?. 

t31Do you call him - 

[41 

15! Aa !?a~l- at hrs office? 

[61 A - him at his office. 

[‘) Q 

A 

And his office being where to your knowledge? 

I81 

Q 

Here in Washington Akin Cump. 

So do ou feel conkdent that any calls that you 

tj:jwould have originated ! o s 

[ : : : been directAed t;;th4krn 

&reak with Vernon Jordan would have 

ump - 

[:2: 

[I31 Q - law firm office? 

Ll4! A Yeah, I don’t even think I have his home number 

[ISI Q And to the d ree that Mr. Jordan has contacted 

(15jsince you’ve been Ambassa 7 or, would there be any particular 

I 17 1 location or numbers that, to your knowledge. he’s contacted 

IOU 

ilsiyou at? 

A I don’t think he’s ever called me at the U.N. His 

!:zioffice will call lsabelle at the U.N. oftice. If. but I. YOU 

ii I j know, I even think on the telephone we ma’y havgspoken twice 

tzzjma 

1z31tJ. x 

be before I was confirmed. But, and ma 

r”” 

once during my 

. tenure. And then we did have that mee mg. 

IEiwhen I was 

But the oma? dune&my U.N. tenure was early on 

- I remember ta ng Hnth hurt about personnel 

Page 124 

tljmatters. 

Q Oka _ Well Pm oing to show you a series of 

~:l’calls that I’m going I o ask ‘ou a %o ut. 

141 fExhibi!WBR-13 was marked 

151 for identiication.) 

161 BY MR. BIENERT: 

0 I’m going to make a few representations to you and 

iii 1’11 ask you some queshons. Okay. 

First of all. l’ll direct your attention to Exhibit 

I :,‘; WBR-13 which, as you can see, contains 10 separate phone 

r .__,~ I I I calls. ~.~~ &red? ~~~ 

I121 A Rght 

1131 Q And if you’ll look at these, 1’11 represent to you 

I 14 Ithese are based upon phone records - 

115: 

: RishL - obtained b 

::76iand that all of these calls re t 

the OftTce of Independent Counsel, 

e to phone calls laced on 

I I e I December 11 th from Vernon Jordan’s office. Bka y? 

--. 

i 5 i calls. 

Q And now directing your attention to this series of 

ou’ll note that the calls here. the earliest one is 

:3:at 9:4 J a.m.. and the latest one is at 1:07 p.m. Do you see 

: 4 1 that. sir? 

.:> 

.-. A Yeah. Is this, is this all the same day? 

-1 0 Yes, sir, it is. It’s all on December 11 th. And 

.-: I’ll indicate to you we’ve alS0 had testimon 

i 5 : evidence of a meeting by Mr. Jordan with h 

and documenta 

s. 

:8;day. 

Lewinsky on t x at 

.._l 

.--_ A Okay. 

. . . . .--I_ Q And 

: :r : rndicate that the ly 

ou’ll note that the phone records at least 

! : 3 1 among others 

cal s from Mr. Jordan’s office went to, 

rsons at Young 8 Rubicam. American Express - 

::4: A ’ t$ght. 

t15: 

2 Yeah. 

- and Revlon. Do you see that listed? 

IIS: 

[IT! Q Okay. And I guess my question to you is. what did 

[ ; 8 1 you and Mr. Jordan talk about that day. 

A Well I don’t think I talked to him. This - I 

tl?lthink he called Isab&e. 

::s: g gr?% office called isabelle And I think it’s 

(233 relating to the - I wanted to see him, and we were trying to 

[24:schedule it. 

1251 Q AndwhatwasitthatyouneededtospeaktoMr. 

Page 127 

[ : j Jordan about? 

A 

i:i him in awhile 

You know, it’s just career advice. I hadn’t seen 

Just sta ing in touch. 

t41. . I 5 1 rnrtiated b 

Q ’ Okay. I&w if this was something that was 

you then want& to see him, would you expect 

[ 6; then, sir, t K at we wou.M see at least sometime in this rough 

; 7: time period before this call. a call from your office to Mr. 

: s 1 Jordan’s office? 

i9! A Well, lt could be, we also invited him to some 

I 10: events. some dinners. And it could be that his office was 

11: j calling and saying he couldn’t come. We had some social 

t:z:event%. 

. Q 

1: ,’ ! invitations be conducted? 

And when you say invited him, how would those 

il5j A 

C! 

Through m 

1161 Meaning te t 

protocol office. 

A 

phone calls, or - 

117: 

Q 

Telephone calls and in writing. 

i : z : if we were looking at phone records, that would be a record 

Now, the protocol office. that would be actually - 

~ts;that aduall r~~y;~rack to UN. Protocol Qffrce? 

12’ : 

12:: 

x 

Q Or somethi like that? 

$:;,,th? 

A Yeah, yeah. “35 ow, what - but, this is December 

t25: Q Yes, sir. 

OIC-Starr Page 122 to Page 127 
3421 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAXlZ2 

Page 128 Page 131 

A Yeah 

; j think I know what :: s 

I mean, this could be relahng to -- oh, I 

II Q What’s that? 

‘J! A I had - one of those dates, I had a. a, around 

~!those dates I had an event for the Presrdent at my residence 

61 Q And what would the event have been, do you know? 

7, A Thus - yeah. Thus was 10 p.m I rnvrted some of 

; 1 jmatters when we had CL- breakfast 

;2> Q Have yoti ever drscussed 

I 3 1 of, you know. any pan:c;ia: oerson. whet 1 

ersonnel matters, rn :e,-s 

er to hire them or 

14 !not. wrth Vernon Jordar IO our knowledge? 

;:1 A Well. yean + here was one of m deputies. I 

16lwanted an African--Amensan deputy and I cake J him for 

;,!suggesttons Thts was early In my admtnrstratton. 

1’71 Q Oka 

(?I A And Y odn’: nlre the person he sent me. 

[?Oi 

;11; A 

Q ;$io;e;i;erview hrm7 

:1:1 Q That would have been In early 1997? 

iI31 A 

Cl41 Cl 

Yeah. That would have been in January or February 

Now, I’ll also direct our attentron to what we are 

[lslgoing to call Exhlblt WBR-14. whr x 

t16jrecords. 

IS another list of phone 

Cl71 (Exhibd WBR-14 was marked 

[I81 for identification.) 

I191 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q I’ll represent to you. sir, if 

I:Flof that pag;, yo;;g;~ that rt says Akrn d 

ou look at the top 

ump? 

(221 

Q 

!::;one ofthe three phones assoaated with Mr. Jordan’s office 

That these are phone records reflecting calls from 

t25)to other places. And if you’ll look at the highlighted call 

i 3 ; - some peo 

t 91 Ithink, I thin .R Jordan is respondmg to he mvltation 

le as mends over after a 

P 

retty rough day. And 

:il1 

i?] 

sy M4RndL~~I&u say - 

121 Q December 9th. I 

: 3 1 think 

I think you might be recallin 

My 

ou and the President attended the 5 8 th anniversary of 

14 1 the useum of Jewish Heritage, or at least newspaper accounts 

: 5 J reflect that. 

161 A Yeah. 

1’1 Q And on December 10th. I don’t know whether you 

18 1 attended an event wdh the President at the Rainbow Room for 

I 9 1 the Democratic Hispanic - 

ijoi A No. no I didn’t. 

1211 Q No? You didn’t attend that? 

1221 A I didn’t. 

I231 Q Are those the events that ou had in mind when - 

A Yeah. And it could be tha he’s calling back and 

I:: I saying why he couldn’t come, or - 

ty 

Page 129 

I: i and these 

Q But this would be - that event was December 9th. 

R 

hone calls are December 11 th. 

Yeah. No I didn’t - I don’t - I am almost 

i:;certain I didn’t talk to him’December 11 th. I’m almost 

[ 5 1 absolutely sure. I don’t even think I’ve ever talked to 

[ 6 1 Vernon on the hone from my office. 

[71 BY JR. BIENERT: 

0 So. when you sa 

~~~wouldn’t have spoken to him on 5 

you are almost certain that you 

ecember 1 lth is that because 

.~o)you feel confident you didn’t speak to him at all in the 

’ 1: 1 month of December. for example, on the phone? Or is that 

12 1 because you have some specific reason why on the particular 

I 31 day of December 11 th you couldn’t have spoken to him? 

;::; 

A Well, I had breakfast with htm. 

0 

1161 A 

And I’ll just tell you - 

When was the breakfast? 

0 The date of that, at least according to records 

i:iithat we have, was I believe 

[ 19 1 have been a few weeks later. 

January 6th. So, that would 

Page 130 

(61 A No. None whatsoever. 

0 Did he ever indicate to you in an way anything in 

Ii 1 relation to whether he used the name or not at r he time 

[ 91 someone ihat you believe might have been a reference io 

tlo)Monica Lewinsk ? 

A 

t :: i whatsoever. 

t&t at all. He never mentioned her name 

Q Did you ever mention to Mr. Jordan or suggest to 

i ::; him, that there was anyone refened to you by Mr. Podesta or 

[ 15 1 anyone, but that you would have been referencin 

8 

Monica 

[ 161 Lewinsky. that you were engaged in any kind of lscussions 

[ 17 1 about a job with? 

A None whatsoever. Monica Lewinsky’s name never came 

I:ilup in my conversation with Vernon Jordan whatsoever. 

Q And when you sa her name didn’t come up, are you 

ii;; also qqing that there was no re fy erence to someone who turned 

~22 lout to be hz w;Ether her name was - 

I231 

1241 Q - used or not? 

125; A That’s right. We didn’t discuss any personnel 

Page 132 

I 1 I at the bottom, that call. d’s the second to last one on the 

izlpaae. . ,. _ December 15th. 953 a.m. - 

t31 ; Yes. 

- to _ which I’ll represent to you is the 

i :; Watergate Hotel. 

t61 A Right. 

171 Q Now, first of all. just looking at the schedule, 

(8) December 15th would have been a Monday. Do 

tslof knowin 

ou have any way 

rlolon Decem % 

whether you would have been at the XI 

er 15th? 

atergate Hotel 

ilij A No. But I’m sure we could find out. 

1121 0 Do you have any remembrance of getting a call, or 

r13leven a messa 

B t14lcalledforyou. 

e, at the Watergate Hotel that Vernon Jordan had 

t151 A No, but it could be that we were t 

116 1 the meeting durin that Period. That was the tas rty 

ing to set up 

week 

[ 17 1 before I went off P or Chnstmas. And it could be that his 

tlsloffice was t 

rlslset and I ha I 

ing to track us down. 1 think we had a meeting 

to cancel, as I recall or he had to cancel. 

t20 1 So. it could be that this was a back and forth on, on that 

t21 ischeduled 

t22 1 Watergate. 

meeting. And it could be that they called the 

t231 Is this a call that came to me? 

I::; I’m asking 

Q It’s a call that went to the Watergate Hotel. So. 

you if you think it couid have gone to you? 

Page 133 

A No. Well. no, it couldn’t - 953. I’d be doing 

I:;something. I wouldn’t be sitting around the hotel. 

t31 Q Okay., 

(41 

t51 

“0 l$tE.ts tn the morning? 

I61 A So. it could be his staff tryin 

9 

to reach me to set 

(7 1 up a meeting or trying to find, connect wtth sabelle. 

Q So the bottom line is you have no idea whether 

Ii;that was even to you or your office, dut it could have been? 

t I o 1 You just don’t know? 

[Ill A 

Q 

Well, is this to my room? 

1121 No, sir. That’s wh I’m asking. 

I131 A Pro r; 

I141 Q 

Oh, yeah, no. 

If you recalt? Ri 

ably not to me. 

1151 mean. YOU iust have no wav of & *. 

ht that’s what I’m asking. I 

i16j - A No. - 

nowma. 

” 

0 YOU certainty, as you sit here now. you have no 

i :i; basis to conclude that you - 

I191 

I201 “0 No. 

A 

- would have spoken with him on December 15th? 

No. I realty almost think I have not spoken to him 

i::l)on the phone, period. 

Q All right. Now, let me shift to another subject. 

i::ll’rn assuming that you are at least general1 

~ 

familiar based 

[zj ion press accounts if nothmg else, with the ‘f act of the Paula 

Page 128 to Page 133 

_~ 

OlCStarr 
BSA 

3422 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAXI231 

Jones lawsuit. 

Page 134 

A Yeah. 

Q And that you would have been aware of the exrstence 

: of the Paula Jones lawsuit In late 1997. correct? 

A Yeah. 

Q Now, have you ever had any conversations of a 

’ -substantive nature with anyone at the Whrte House about the 

: Paula Jones lawsuit. name$about Issues. strategres, what 

;. should or shouldn’t be done. 

: : : A No. Remember, I’m in New York. I’m not - as a 

: : forergn polic Cabinet member, I don’t 

,I: answer is n! 

1. .domeshc po rtrcs or discussions or fun s. 

articipate in any 

rarsers. So, the 

0 Have you ever just - I assume this is included In 

iii ‘that. but I just want to make clear. Have you ever had any 

[ : 6. conversations with President Clinton about anything related 

[ : - : to the Paula Jones lawsuit? i:E: A No. Nothing whatsoever. 

!l>l 0 Have 

[: z President Clinton’s a x 

ou ever had any conversations with any of 

omeys or persons that ou believed 

; r : : were acting on his behalf in that lawsuit abou r the Paula 

I .--. 2: : Jones lawsuit? 

123: A No. 

124: Q Have you ever had any discussions with Vernon 

f-5 :Jordan about the Paula Jones lawsuit? 

Page 135 Page 138 

- A No. 

._ 0 

j: : and thus is goin 

Now, let me show you another series of phone calls, 

to be on December 22nd. 

::: 

_r. 

.-_ i .-. 

A aka~hi~~~BP;;3”s marked 

.-. BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q This is Exhibit WBR-15. Sir, 1’11 represent to you 

tz’ that these are another corn ilation or ‘ust a little 

of phone calls In .6! rcated in p c, one recor 2 

uick 

i;z.summa 

1:: date of 3 

s for the 

ecember 22nd, and you’ll notice there are three 

7. - calls on here. correct? .-- ~~ 

:-: ,--. A Yeah. 

I:<. Q And you will see, sir, that there is the first call 

i 15 : on here, at 4:59 p.m. 

[:I: A Rrght. 

/ii i operator. 

Q From Vernon Jordan’s office to the White House 

Do you see that? 

,-. 

is i the Wate 

A Well, like everybod else in the world. I was at 

rI 

; 3 1 out, I don ? 

ate Hotel ironically, an 

know, the momin 

the press reports came 

of - it was in Janua 

9. 

And 

r 4 ; that’s when I first heard abou it. That’s when I firs r 

: 5: heard Monica Lewinskv’s name in connection with this oroblem 

i 6 j It was the first time. _ 

about - you made no 

ou reason or 

[lj: Q And I’ll tell you, for purposes of a reference, I 

[ 14 ! believe it started hitting the 

[ 15 1 mainstream press, around 9 

ress around, as far as the 

116 1 timeframe. 

anuary 2Oth, 21st, in that 

A That’s right, and I believe we had ended m office 

i :i i had ended our contact with Monica Lewinsky when I I tol 

[ 19 1 Mona to find out, to have her fish or cut bait, and she told 

dy 

f2ojme - I don’t know if it was in December or January - 

L211 0 

A 

Okay. We& let’s - 

t221 - that Momca was pursuing other tions. 

Cl All right. We’ll o ahead and lock a the next 

I : : ; exhibit. wh-rch taE&bit WBR-!6. 

? 

f251 

i13: 

I?“. 

A -Yeah. 

Q It was two minutes and 12 seconds. .--. 

12’: 

rzz1 

A Right. 

Q You’ll see that the next call was from Vernon 

[23)Jordan’s Oft&. 

124: A Right. 

I251 Q Four minutes later to Monica Lewinsky’s Pentagon 

Page 136 

l: ; off& number, and it was just 18 seconds. 

I2; A Right. 

C! Very short. Then 

I:! thereafter at 504 there is a call ): 

ou’ll notii that immediately 

om Vernon Jordan’s 

[ 5 ; office to at least ybur office, aithougb not your individual 

; 6 : extension;Fmb;issafor Rtchardson s off&, U.N. Office - 

17: 

Q -2 124154402 which I believe, if we recall from 

I z i the other records, would be M;. Watkins’ - 

cioi 

11:: Aa FghL office. Do you see that, sir? 

[‘z: I A Yes. 

Q 

i :: j is that right? 

And that would have been a minute and 24 seconds, 

115: A Right. 

I : f 1 messa 

Q Do you know whether or not you would have gotten a 

dg 

e or a phone call from Mr. Jordan that you are aware of 

[ 1 s : aroun December 22nd? 

113: A No. I think what it is, it’s setting u this 

[z;.breakfast that went through several recesses, 

i 2: ‘set up this meeting. As I recall, on & 

&anges, or 

ce.mber 22nd, may 

12: : have even been out of the country, because I either left the 

[ 2 3 .22nd. 23rd. 24th,. I went to Mexico for a vacation. So, I 

~24 -don’t even know d I was in town the 22nd. I might have 

[:s:been. 

Page 137 

But, no. I did not speak to Jordan This must have 

’ been to lsabelle relatrng to the breakfast or the meehng 

> .that we were going to have In early January 

Q And. srr. I’ll make a further representatron to you 

;, that, based on teshmony in the 

< .we’ve obtained, that December 3 2nd was the da 

rand jury as well as records 

that Mr 

-,Jordan brought Monica Lewinsky to an attorney g y the name of 

2. Frank Carter, after being advised by Ms. Lewinsky that she 

;’ had been subpoenaed in the Paula Jones case to testrfv 

‘L., A Right. 

_... /-- Q Do you have any basis to believe that Mr Jordan 

: :z’would have tried to contact you on the day that he addressed 

__ :. Ms. Lewinskv’s subpoena in the Paula Jones case. about 

7. anything related to Monica Lewinsky? .-q 

A No, no. I never talked to him that day. I think 

ii; j he called, they called lsabelle about the scheduling. 

I:“ Q And are you absolutely one hundred percent sure in 

I i E iyour testimony that at no time did Vernon Jordan ever, 

! 14 Iwhether it was a call, a written communication or anything in 

“?e 

non, communicate anything to ou that related to Monrca 

[ : : ; ewrnsky or b the Paula Jones case. 

[2’; A 

Q 

I am a hundred percent absolutely sure. 

When did you first learn. and how did you first 

I::ileam, that Ms. Lewinsky was somehow implicated or you know, 

(~5: noted as a possible witness in the Paula Jones case? 

Page 139 

111 

121 

(~!!$;pwE!$6”.,Was mafkd 

131 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q Sir lf 

~:~ofane-mailthatIbefy 

ou’ll take a look at this, this is a copy 

[ 6 1 on it Lynn 

ieve we got from your office. It says 

Martindale. 

A 

Who is Lynn Martindale? 

171 She is head of-well, she is the personnel 

[ 8 I person. 

t91 Q And where is she located? 

1101 A InNewYork. 

Ill1 Q So, she works for you in New York? 

t1.21 A Yeah. 

1131 Q 

i 14 j Logsdon? 

Then it’s from Wavne Lwsdon. Who is Wavne - _ 

A He is the head of the administrative department, 

1 :z; In other words L nn’s boss at USUN. 

I:iithat? 

Q *day. Then it says, cc: Peter Budeigh. Who is 

A He is my number two ambassador. He’s sort of the 

i:ilmanager of the Mission. 

Q And then you’ll see here it sa 

I:: ilewinsky; Date: Tuesday, December 23rd. 

s Subject: Monica 

[23! tf this name po s up on your screen, it is one the Ambassa or 

[:slMore to wme !s’l%now it. 

fhen it says “Tn. 

124 ; has in mind of nn ing on board as a secretary I believe. 2 

OlCStarr Page 134 to Page 139 
3423 

-_ Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4130198 XMAXW) 

Page 140 

A Right 

. Q Do vou see that? 

:’ A ‘ 

Q %“Ao you a 

; at least as of December 23r % 

ree then based on thus e-mail 

, the offe’r to MS Lewrnsky was 

that 

c ,still pendin 

w 

7 

Yeah 

2 Now - 

Well let’s see. I told Mona to fish or cut bait 

: {lion Lewrnsky. I think rt was rn December. I satd. you know, 

i ‘ust find out where thus thrn 

;:-,i .8 

IS; is she with us or not. I 

: ::. hrnk rt wasQbefore the holr ays.. 

..~. 

iii iquote 

Now. can ou thank of any reason why the name would 

po 

j ;s jspecifical P &Lynn Martrndale around that timeframe? 

up. rn terms o Y someone’s screen or Issues, and 

!:O’ Well, yeah, because 1 thank as I told you, 

I:- jmade me aware of the problem with shifting the .ob from 

Cooper 

1:s !Washrngton to New York. Wayne Logsdon wou I d do thus through 

::slMartindale. 

Q So. you believe then that this - is it accurate 

!zyjthen that your assum 

isi fsome relation to the R 

tion is that this e-mail mght have had 

ct that around this timeframe the 

[ 2 3 ! whole issue of shifting the job to New York was coming up as 

!:4 la procedural matter? 

[ZSI A Well. it could have been a little earlier. You’d 

Page 141 

She was engaged in these talks with 

i i 9 ; Wayne, too. 

[i91 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q All right. We’ll o to the next exhibits we have 

I:‘: 1 which are going to be two exhr 

(Exh’bits W& 17 and WBR 18 

rts. 

[?21 

,771 weA marked for identiicati&.) 

BY MR. BIENERT: - 

Q White we are getting those ready, let me ask you, 

Page 142 

t I ldid you at any time during this process, either directly or 

[ 2 1 through one of 

[ 3 jwith either Mr. 6 

our subordinates or assocrates. communicate 

odesta’s oftice of MS: Cume about the 

f 4 1 status of althrng related to Ms. Lewrnsky? 

Not wrth John Podesta whatsoever. At one point I 

i 2 i bumped into Betty Cunie I believe in the basement of the 

,,lWhite House. And I said something to the effect, you know, I 

i B 1 interviewed your friend, I liked her, and Betty hugged me and 

(9 1 that was the end of it. It was like a chance encounter. 

Q ‘Did she hug you like almost as a resutt of the 

i:Plinterview or did she hug you first because it’s your normal 

[ 12 Iway of grezting and then you toM her thrs? 

I think she hugged me afterwards. She’s a very, 

i i 2 i she’s very effusive. She’s very hug 

Q Do you believe that t 8. IS chance encounter where you 

ing. That’s how she is. 

i :: i relayed this information would have been obviously after you 

t : 7 1 interviewed her, Monica,. but would it have been before the 

1 I3 1 job offer or do ou think rt was after the 

I 

ob offer? 

tS:iafter. I - 

A 7 don’t remember. It cou d have been before or 

[?ll Q Did - 

[ZZ! A It m‘ ht have been after. 

1231 Q Did?ls. C urn ‘e say anything to you in response to 

i 5 r j the informition? 

_ . 

!?5’ No. She, she just hugged me. She didn’t say 

Page 143 

:: IanythIng Could have been before I don’t rememoer. I 

I: 3 remember seerng Betty rn the basement of the Wntte House 

[j where I alwa 

8 

s have my meetrng That’s where you bump Into 

i 4 : everybody ould have been at a Christmas event I can’t 

IS! remember 

15 But I think It was, I thank it was -- I don’t 

: 7 ! remember whether rt was before or after the offei. or the 

! 9 1 Interview I don’t remember 

!9: Q Drd - 

ilO! A It was after the rnten/iew. 

(11; Q 

(1 L’ iafter the offer? 

Right. But you don’t know whether it was before or 

. 

Cl31 A Yeah. 

Q 

i : :j Ms. Lewinsky 

But clearly it was not - it was definrtely before 

ultimately conveyed that she did not want to 

116 1 take the offer? 

I171 A Yeah, yeah. 

I181 Q And did MS Currie ever make any statements of 

rl9!re 

co? 

nition. indicating that she knew that you were doing 

12s 1 thrs or her, for Monica Lewinsky? 

(211 A No. Not at all. 

Q 

!::tstatus of Ms. Lewinskv? 

Okay. Any other communication to anyone about any 

A No. - 

Q Other than people in your office? 

Page 144 

A No. I - this was my decision to hire her. I did 

I:; not do it under any pressure or an 

13 1 would be suitable for the job, and ?.’ 

hrng. I felt that she 

drdn t feel I had to 

14 1 report to anybod It’s not in my nature. 

I51 0 d(kay well - 

A I don’t take pressure well on personnel matters. 

176jAnd John Podesta is a friend and Betty Currie is a friend. 

Island I was - 

Q Well, let me ask you this. It was John Podesta. 

[ :i{you have told us who asked you to interview her, correct? 

[III A Yes. 

Q And when you set out to have your secretary get 

I ::i ahold of the resume, you were doing that as a favor to John 

(14 1 Podesta. correct? 

1151 A I was interviewing her. I was trying to be 

i 16j responsive to John eah. He’sa friend. _ _ 

And’lwas at least your belief at that time that 

in motion the interview, which 

Lewinsky, was stemming 

[231 A Yes es. 

Q And ?m not asking you right now whether you were 

I::; pressured. What I’m asking you IS a liils different. 

Page 145 

111 Wouldn’t you,, under those circumstances, feel it natural or 

[ 2 1 normal to nobfy John Podesta of the status of the person who 

[ 3 lyou got a resume from, interviewed, and offered a job to, as 

[ 4 J a resutt of John Podesta’s request? 

151 A No. I mean, John Podesta’s a friend. He’s Deputy 

ts]Chief of Staff. I’m a Cabinet member. I don’t have to 

[ 7 1 account for anything. He asked me to interview somebody. 

ts]That’s all he asked me to do, is interview her, and I 

[ 91 interviewed her. And I didn’t feel I had to sa John, I 

[ 10 1 interviewed her; or, John, this is the status. Wh y should I? 

[ 1 I jThis was my m choice my decision. And I stand behind it. 

Q ’ dkay. And we’ll 

1:: i if you look at these WBR-17 an % 

o to the next two exhibits. Now, 

WBR-18. If you look at the 

[ 14 1 bottom here, at the’bottom of this page there is a call, 

t 1s 1 according to the record, that was placed on January 5th, 

r1611998. 

i17i A Right. 

[1Bl 

I191 

AQ 

Q 

k{y see that, sir? 

At 11:32. It was a one-minute call. And I’ll 

::;1’represent to you, str. that this phone number, where it says 

~22 1 D. Finerrnan - _ 

1231 

“a tight. IS the phone number of Ms. Lewinsky’s aunt who 

:::;lives at Watergate, and who we’ve had testimony that Ms. 

_- 

Page 140 to Page 145 OIC-Starr 
BSA 

3424 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAUZS) 

Page 146 Page 149 

r : Lewinsky would %quently stay at her house 

,_l, 

,- A O<ay 

Q A-c then you’ll note tha! :he call was placed to 

i: :Ms. Sutphen’s prcne number, 4t5-4029 

:5’ A Oqay 

ii Q DC vou see that’ 

/-’ A Yean 

Q NW let’s o to the next page. WBR-18. I believe. 

1 Z j It appears to be a memo P rom Ms. Sutonen to you, correct, 

j__ 

[li; A Yeah 

_). Q Ano If 

i :;:two toprcs. the secon J 

ou look rt over. you’ll see that it covers 

of whrch is Momca Lewinsky. 

114: A Yeah. 

l15i 0 Now. I’m just oing to read aloud. As to Monica 

1 ~s;Lewinsk 

f 17 1 hopes o Is 

it says, ‘She has 8 edrned the positron in the 

gorng pmate sector e.g. Burston-Marstefler or the 

i I 8 1 like). She thank& you again I or grvrng .. her the, opbon to 

i : 9 icome to USUN She’d lake to call somebme thrs week to thank 

,zolvou in person. Do you want her to call or shouM I tell her 

i 2 1 j to send you a note.” 

[221 

[231 

Do y~“u syzathat. sir? 

Q All right. And I’d also just direct your 

I Z: 1 attention, to see if we can get a frame of reference 

- 

Page 147 

1: 1 timewise, that if you look at the first para raph which 

I? Ideals with an unrelated person named 0 

p. I 

re Olrvas - .-, 

[3! 

Aa Yeah- - you’ll see that about midway thro 

t :I referring toAsomYy;; talkrng to Ben on Monday or ? 

h, it’s 

uesday - 

I61 

Q - which was the 29th or 30th. and then talking 

ii jabout an e-mail that had been sent on Friday, January 2nd. 

[ 9 1 Do you see that7 

IlO! A Yeah. 

[I:1 Q Now. based on these. two documents - 

1121 MR. LERNER: 

Cl31 MR. BIENERT: 

C,“,“,~we tntroduce this document also? 

1141 (Exhibit WBR-19 was marked 

[15i for identification.) 

1161 BY MR. BIENERT: 

1171 Q Just so that you will know, what we’re trying to do 

[ 18 1 here is bra$et+z;me - 

[191 

Q 

$~~communicated. 

- when perhaps the finel declination was 

That’s why I’m showing ou these documents. 

I221 &It 

i::;this l7? 

$i~.d&~:p~&our$‘$@&t$ I dof$zgbecause _ is 

I251 MR. BIENERT: Yes. 

Page 148 

_ 

111 MR. LERNER: Okay. 

(21 8Y MR. LERNER: 

[31 Q So. 17 reflects an 11:32 phone call - 

I41 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q From Ms. Lewinsky’s aunt, where we know she stayed, 

I z 1 to Mona Sutphen. 

i7j A’ Rrght. 

I.81 Q 

rs,Exhibit 19. 

And then if you kook at the highlighted portion of 

._,~ sir. the one that s on the too - 

I101 6 Yeah., 

1 ii ;csll four minutes 

ou II 

‘b 

see that the highlighted portion shows a 

ter at 1136. a two-minute call. from 

f13j415-4398. which - 

1141 MR. LERNER: No. it’s frcnn Akin Gump. 

1151 MR. BIENERT: 

i16jdifferent one. 

Oh, I’m sorry. I’m looking at a 

MR. LERNER: 

i:ilto the UN. Protocol office. 

The number dialed is the U.S. Mission 

MR. BIENERT: 

Itzldifferent one. Oka 

Oh, I see. Ite got it. I got a 

[211 BY MR. ZIIENERT: 

,771 Q Well. let me back UD on this then. First of all, 

iI;jlet’s come back to that document then. We’ll start - 

I241 A Okay 18? 

:15! Q The f%st two. 

cl:: 

AQ 

- e-mail, I mean - 

I thank rt must have been on -what is the 5th’ 

i i: 1 What day of the week IS that7 

[ISI MR. LERNER: It’s Monday. 

1161 BY MR. BIENERT: 

I171 Q Monda Lets pull out - 

I181 It must K 

(191 I remem& got back the 3rd or 4th. 

ave been Monday, yeah, because everybody 

[101 d 

[?Il A 

;;;~‘s January 1998 and - 

[221 - the 5th is a Monday. 

2 Right. I think 

~~:~Ollie-Olivas gu 

- see, what had happened 

was one, was one of the first people that 

this 

rzslsupported me ty o go to Congress, and he died over Christmas 

Page 150 

[I 1 and I didn’t even know about it. And so I think there was a 

ot back that he had 

[Ill A Yeah. 

Q 

i::iyou look at 

This once again is an Akin Gump document. And if 

e hrghlghted call, I’ll represent to you that 

j;:jnumber.a- IS one of Mr. Jordan’s secretary’s extension. 

A Right. 

Q And then it’s to 212-415-4398, which according to 

I:tlour records is the U.S. Mission to the U.N. Do you see that 

..n.ciR 

LIO,“’ : 

i:zibreakfast. 

A Right. right. That’s probably to set up the 

0 Okay. That’s what I was goi 

I:: 1 have any understanding of what that call mg .T! 

to ask you, do you 

t be about? 

A Well, yeah, it was 

I::; breakfast that - when did I have g 

robably relating to the 

reakfast with Jordan? 

t251 MR. LERNER: The next day, the 6th. 

1: 

Page 151 

11 THE WITNESS: 

? Iabout. 

Well, that’s probably what it was 

Ii. 1 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q And is it accurate that as far as this breakfast 

/ii&;+ _ vou __ had ..__ with _.. Mr. ..; Jordan. __ __.. th$o;~;t;omething that at 

.-. sf got set in motion on your 

171 A At mv reouest. at mv initiative. 

iei 

_ 

[9! g I%%-month of December, or - as I recounted 

[lojearlier. 

1111 0 And once again, I just want to make sure we are 

~12 jctear on the record, is it our testimon that any 

[ 13 1 communication on this dy ate, January Y th, between Mr. Jordan’s 

1 I 4 ] office and yours, at least to your knowledge, would have 

~151 nothing to do wrth Monica Lewrnsky or any of the matters 

[ 161 attendant to her7 

1171 A Absolutely. 

ilSi Q So, now, 1 actually want to ask ou - and let me 

f 19 j gave you the next exhibit which I uess is WB R -20. 

I201 (Exhibit WBR-!!O was marked 

[211 for identification.) 

[221 BY MR. BIENERT: 

[231 -Q I’m going to ask you about this, and ask you if you 

{ 24 ] even know what these references refer to. beCaUSe this iS - 

[‘51 I’ll represent to you that this is something that we got from 

OlC-Starr Page 146 to Page 151 
BSA 

Page 152 

3425 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 

Page 155 

XMAX(26) 

: ‘your office based on our request for documents relatrng to 

? Monica Leirns%ght. 

;;. - et cetera 

Cl 

Right. 

And we’re not exactly sure what this document IS 

t and we are hoorna that YOU could shed some ltght on it. 

1; A ‘RiGht. _ 

(3’ Q And I think 

:n: astute than me, but somet c, rng that took me a rttle whrle to 

ust for purposes - ou may be more 

r 

:: -figure out is, I think usually rf you start at the bottom 

::,wrth these thrnos and go up - 

12 :;, 

A 

that’s chronological, to take them in reverse. 

Oka Well, this IS what I was tetkng you earker 

12 j that there was con Y. usron over the slot at one 

: 7 ; personnel people wanting to give away a 

19 1 make it into Foreign Servrce. which I wou 

I 9 1 to, because it eliminates my ability to choose somebody. 

So I had, I think. spoken to Wayne Logsdon and 

ip i said Wayne ‘you know, I want this Fore’ n Servrce position 

22 ;- I don’t want it a Foreign Service, I wan P to leave it the 

olitical slot. I want to move it from 

ew York. Make it happen. Donlt - where are 

want to make it a Forergn Servrce slot. 

.~ ~~ ~___._ __~ 

Page 153 

: I : It’s not a secretarial slot, so keep it a Schedule C. I 

(2 ; think that’s what it is. 

Cl Now, if you took at the, what I’m oing to say is 

i: i roughly thisecoozhentry up, where It says “WK P=- 

e from Peter Burteigh 

Page 154 

t 1) Schedule C. 

And I think there was just confusion about what I 

i:iwanted done. What I thought was happening and what Cooper 

[ 4 1 thought was ha 

[ 5 1 slot and make ip 

pening was that we were losjng this Schedule C 

Into Foreign Service, and I dtdnY want that 

16 1 to happen. So, I was just - 

171 Q Okay. 

A I mean, all of this, I, I. you know, I - I don’t 

I:;know all this stuff. 

Q And that’s fine and it may be, because I don’t 

.~~. i :i leither. That’s whv I’m asking and you may not know. 

LIZI A Yeah. - _ 

Q We’re just trying to fgure it out. Then, if we go 

t::;up to the next entry up where R says “Peter Thanks for 

r I 5 1 the heads-uo. I had initiated the candellation’ already since 

i ; 6 j he wanted ii done.” 

Now that line there about the cancellation, I’m 

i : i 1 assuming that’s a reference to where it says in the prior e119 1 mail, “don’t cancel the personnel action et”. What I’m 

{XI 1 trying to figure out here is if that has to J o with whether a 

12 11 cancellation was or wasn’t done; and, if so. whether that was. 

122 1 because 

[rslthe job. .4 

ou guys learned that Montca Lewinsky was not taking 

o then somebody said - 

,941 A Oh. no. no. 

> A No, no r; It had simply to do with I didn’t want 

iiito lose thus slot. When xs this. In January’ 

‘31 Q Yes, su These are dated January 5th. 

I41 A No, no And I filled, I’ve fi..ed. I’ve filled the 

; 5 ;slot. 

Q I’m sorry Just so you’ll see the first one 

it /starts Decembe;e2a3hrd 

13: A 

19; Q Wh!ch acually. if you thank about rt. ties In with 

[ 1 o 1 the one weAsawo$;ttie wnlle ago - 

[Ill 

[1?1 -Y if ha name pops up on your screen. That - 

;13: 2 Yeah 

114; 

il5, ,--, AQ 

-was December 23rd. 

Okav. 

I161 Q And’then they continue on to January 5th. 

Cl71 A Yeah. 

Q Okay. Now let’s go to, next we’ll o to 

I :“,i breakfast. We have your itinerary for that day. TZis w,1; 

our 

[?o]beWBR-21. 

1211 (Exhibit WBR-21 was marked 

[??I for identification.) 

[231 BY MR. BIENERT: 

- Q 

I::lyou would get? 

Do you recognize this as being a copy of a schedule 

Page 156 

111 A Yeah. 

: 0 And does this a 

I3 1 of your sct~Aedul;;;r Tuesday, s 

pear to be an accurate reflection 

anuary 6th. 1998? 

141 . 

Q And you’ll note at 800 you had the breakfast with 

I: 1 Vernon Jordan at the WaMorf Astoria. 

171 A Riaht. 

isi Q DG ou see that? 

I91 A Rig& right. 

I101 Q Now.‘that would mean at your place basically. 

El11 A 

Q 

At my residence. 

1121 Do you eat in the residence, or do you go down and 

[13leat - 

[141 A No, at the residence. 

0 

I :z; of your rneetin 

Okay. Tell us, what was the general subject matter 

with Mr. Jordan? 

A qt was as I said it was at my initiitive. The 

I :i! purpose was to seek’scme career advice from Jordan. I 

tlstentered my first year at the U.N. It was about.- I wanted 

120 1 to et his advice on the problem we were havmg wrth Congress 

t21lon91 .N . arrears. I consider him somebody that tn the past 

tzzl he’s helped me. I like the guy. 

But it was mainly to talk 

iG:;rnoves. I remember I was starti 

about 

q$o hit 5&?n?%r?~~ 

tzsjask him some advice aboutwhat thought I might do in the 

Page 157 

t 1) future. And. and that was the burbose of the meetina 

isi Q Okay. ” 

A Let me .ust sa , I was ‘ust in a f urative sense 

[ 111 I’m very ha py where I am. 

t iilasking aby career advice. rwasn t thinking o?changtng. 

[12) For the record. 

[131 A For the record. 

Q Okay, and then finall 

i ::; last record we have to show you, in r* erms of phone records, 

and I think this is the 

r161et .--, cetera. 

I171 (Exhibit WBR-22 was marked 

[181 for identification.) 

I191 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q WBR-22 which I will indicate to you are phone 

iii 1 records retlectina pagers. 

;15j 0 - well, cancel the personnel action. 

Page 152 to Page 157 
BSA 

3426 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130/98 

Page 158 

XMAX(27) 

Page 161 

;:’ A 

Q %??that thus particular document if you follow it 

ii.across it shows 8 54 a.m., but I’ll also represent’to ou 

[J *tha: that’s from Pacific trme. So, it’s 11:54 Eastern ty ~rne 

i 5‘1n :he mornrnq. a call on January 7th. or I should say page. 

:6 

i-1 “Please call Mona 

: 3.4: 54029.” Do you have any understanding of why 

! 9; would have been pagrng Monrca Lewrnsky on January 7th? 

A Well, It could be, I mean, I m just look1 

1 :Cithose documents that she was - Monica Monica told 

c 1: 1 she wasn’t taken 

%%a that 

the .ob but she wanted’to come and thank me 

i,;.orsend me a let?er. 

I ! ; : send a letter. 

A nd maybe Mona was calling and saying, 

1151 0 Because 

[ 16 jfolbwup is;uesYt;z;ou z 

ou recall that that was one of the kind of 

ad had, based on the memo from - 

[17i 

[la! 

2 

- Mona correct? 

I mean she - in fact I I I was going to say to 

I:iiMona don’t don1 bother. I mean, this thing is over. She 

[*I jdoesn’t have to send me a letter. I didn’t want to have 

[ 111 another meetin 

QkY ere ou sort of - how did you feel about the fact 

tf:ithat in essence you guys waited almost two months, I guess, 

12 51 six weeks or so. before she got back to you. Did it leave a 

Page 159 

[ 11 neutral feejng i;lour mouth? Did you have sort of a bad - 

121 

[31 

AQ 

reaction to her? 

No it was a non feelin We ‘ust move on. 

P / 

The 

I: {fact is we did not ‘keep the job open or her or two months. 

ts]What we did was, first, she asked for an extension of time. 

!~jWe ave it to her. Then we had the Iraq problem. And then 

18 1 in la 9 e December. this is my calculation., I said to Mona, 

[ 9 1 tell her to fish or cut bait, and that was It. 

that she was looking 

.--a- ~~ 

t231 A Yeah. 

I241 Q And that was about a month ago? 

1251 A Yeah, maybe six weeks ago. 

Page 160 

Cl1 Q 

A 

Okay. And what was the circumstance of that? 

I:lwornan by the name of MO ly 

This was a p”2 here In New York at the home Of a 

acer, and rt was a dinner party 

[ 4 1 and I was, I was again sitting at my table and he came over 

tsjanct said hello. 

Q Did 

I ;i discussions at all g 

ou and Mr. Jordan at that time have any 

a out the Monica Lewinsky situation the 

1 e lfact of, as it turns out, your involvement in a potential job 

tsjfor her and/or his. or anything even remotely - 

t101 

1111 Aa y”“- 

il2i 

related to any of that? 

A 

1131 Q 

No, it was just i greeting. 

So, no discussion at all about Monica Lewinsky? 

1141 A No. Not at all. 

Q Have you had any communication at any time, up to 

~:~~the present with Mr. Jordan either directly or indirectly 

[ 17 1 about anything related to Monica Lewinsky, 

11s 1 Paula Jonr ~a;:: or any of that? 

the job hunt, the 

[I91 

Cl Have you had any communication up to the present, 

~~!~directly or indirectty. with the President - 

I221 

I231 

t No, none whatsoever. 

A 

about any of those topics? 

The President and I have never discussed Monica 

I::iLewinsky or Paula Jones. Never. 

Iii Q Or the fact that you were Involved In offering her 

:: 1 a job ar3 ;terweowin her7 

.3! L8 e have not discussed rt whatsoever 

j4: Q When IS the first time that you would have been 

; jlmade aware tn any wa 

15 1 the job front between \y 

that there might be a possrble link on 

ernon Jordan and Monica Lewinsky7 

iT\ 

:p; January ?hat’s the -- 

Well, 11. it. when the whole issue exploded In 

[i’ Q So, based on press accounts? 

I:Zi first time Press accounts. 

!lli t 

[I’; A 

Nothing prior to that? 

No. Actually, rt was this uy. Matt Drudge, who 

[ 13 1 surfaced my name, or my meeting, 9 

I : 4 1 Waterqate That’s how I - 

mys cry meeting at the 

1151 - Q And I guess - 

[I61 A That was the same day that the story broke. 

[171 Q And I 

[ls]out around Janua 1 

uess there was one Drudge report that was 

th or 19th? 

I191 MR. LE #j NER: The 18th. 19th. 29th - 

L201 THE WITNESS: The same day it broke. 

I211 BY MR. BIENERT: 

E21 Q Okay. 

I231 A 

r41report. 

Because I was asked to comment on the Drudge 

[251 Q All right. Other than your attorney or attorneys, 

[ 11 have you spoken to anyone about, in preparation for your 

Page 162 

[z j appearance here today, namely to talk to us, or an one from 

[ 3 1 the OIC when you interviewed with them, et cetera. x 

I41 A No. You mean since then? Since - 

[51 Q At anytime? 

I61 A - I’ve interviewed? No. 

[7! Q Even before the interview. 

[El A No. I’ve not talked to anybody. 

like coordinate with others? 

Q And have ou had any discussions with anyone at 

I::;White House Counsel’s &ice. like BNC~ Lindsey or - 

Page 163 

Ill 

I21 

Aa No. Theydon’t- 

- Charles Ruff? 

131 A - know I’m here. 

I41 Q About anything related - 

[51 A No. 

[61 

[71 2 

- to this? 

Not at all. 

Q Has anyone other than your attorneys and other 

It i than the agents from my off& and then today with us, has 

t 1 o 1 anyone attempted to debrief you or ask you questions, other 

[ I 11 than the press - 

(121 

1131 Aa No. - about what happened with the - 

A0 No. - U.N. ‘ob. et cetera, and Monica Lewinsky? 

A No. Ot c, er than the press? 

Q Yes. sir. 

i;si A No, no. nobody. 

Q Let me ask you about a last little batch of 

~:~~docurrtents. We received - by the way, just to show ou. 

(2 11 here’s a co 

tzzjthe schedu P e that I know we do have. 

y which I guess we’ll mark as Exhibit WB R -23 

I731 (Exhibit WBR-23 was marked 

[241 for identification.) 

[251 BY MR. BIENERT: 

of 

OlCStarr Page 158 to Page 163 
BSA 

3427 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 

Page 167 

XMAKX! 

Page 164 

:!: Q When I indicated to you we were hoplng we could get 

: Y I these for October, November, December. so you - 

:3i 

Idi A0 Yeab WIII know what we are referencing 

:ii BY MR. LERNER: 

:ii Q 

i7, A 

;i;;.hink you already produced them? 

;31 0 I’ll take a look. 

!a! BY MR. BIENERT: 

!lOj 0 We’ll double-check, but - 

1111 A I think there was a whole batch of stuff coming In 

i :2 1 today or - but I said, do a day-to-day from the day they 

f : 3 1 want. like where was I that day. 

[idI Q Oka Anyway, it’s Exhibd WBR-23. 

1151 A Ri h!i 

i%onXt? 

Q V.#ich is a copy of your schedule for January 1998. 

iis; A Right. 

I191 Q And so we just want to make sure that we et 

120 isimilar schedules for, I guess we’ll say, September throug ?I 

f 2 I 1 December of ‘97? 

I??] A Yeah. Sure. 

[131 Q Oka 

I141 

I251 

~__ 

Page 165 

Ill BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q If you look at this, sir, because this is another 

/:iexhibit that we don’t quite know what we are looking at, and 

[ 4 lsee if you are able to tell us anything. It’s WBR-24. This 

[ 5 1 is a copy of a document that you’ll see the stabonery says 

I 6 1 it’s a Fax Cover Sheet. 

[7! A Yeah. 

ifi, .-. 0 The White House Office Of Legislative Affairs 

19i A Right. 

Q To you, although at the top it shows October 8th 

I::; 1997 from Amb_assador Richardson. Then it gives ~12-415-430~. 

!$%hen just going down the page, it shows that 

Do you even know what this is in relation to? 

Page 166 

III A 

Q 

Yeah, yeah, I’m pretty sure. 

[PI What is it? 

A This was relating to I think the White House asked 

I: 1 me to call Becerra about an educaiion issue and I did. This 

( 5 1 was - is that October 8th? 

I61 Q 

171 A 

That’s what it says on it, yes, sir. In fact - 

This. this is Conaressrnan Becerra of California. 

ieiAnd it was relating io a vote on%ducation. And, and, and 

I 9 1 what was attached was the talking points. 

1101 Q Ali ri ht. 

Cl11 MR. LERBER: This was induded in the production. 

[I21 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q Yes and I don’t know if it was a mistake. I mean. 

/::iwe’re trying to figurk out what this has to do with - 

i15; _ A Yeah. 

0 To your knowledge, does this have anything to do 

I :,” 1 with Monica Lewinskv - iisi 

I191 tl Nq. -job -hunting, what have you? 

[201 A Nd. 

Q Okay. So we’ll assume. what I would do is just do 

I$lthis. Well actually we will confer with your attorney 

(23 lduririg the’break to’see if they have some other basis for 

irrjgivingit to us. 

[251 A Ah, you know why? You know why7 And I’m going to 

‘t ‘do ‘Our “Lfor r$uld appreciate It. ._. 

i;’ 

[jl 

Aa Tkuyhad asked for any contact with Susan Brczny 

Ic, A 

r;’ 

So, ma 

Q Okay, t Y; 

be because she got a copy of this 

at‘s fine. And Susan Broph IS where? 

;-, A Susan Brophy used to be In the Whl Y e House 

! YJ Legislative Affairs 

,9’ 0 Okay, perfect. Thank you All right. And the.- we 

I : 3 j just have some other documents given to us b 

Now, there was a press statement. 

you. 

i i j at this for a secon;eand see - 

I et me just lOOK 

‘i ?I A --> 

;i;;WBR-25. 

a - how much we want to go through. This will be 

[I61 (Exhibit WBR-25 was marked 

L171 for identification.) 

1181 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q Sir I ask if you’ll look at this and tell us if 

Ifzlyou ret0 nize it. And just so that you know so you are not 

1: 11 confuse c? - and maybe the best thm 

rzzlseries. because there are several dl .R 

is to g’ive him the 

erent. what looks like 

~23 1 they miiht be versions of a press statement, and I don’t 

rzrlknow. 

I251 A Yeah. 

Page 168 

I:lwhich. 

Q I don’t want you to be confused as to which one is 

MR. BIENERT: So, why don’t we ne him the other 

I:;copies. which will be - I have one, two three 3 our five 

[ 5 1 sheets of paper. I’m not sure. It looks’like at’leasi two 

[ 6 1 of them are Identical. 

[71 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q What I’m goin to do is 

I : i that you can look at them an 3 ifive you all of them, so 

t 10 1 knowledge if an 

tell us w ch one, to your 

A 

was the final version and - 

O\ I can tell you that now, because I’m the one 

I k: 1 that drafted the fir&l one. 

Q That’s what I wanted to ask you. Okay. So, we 

I::ldont have to give you the extra one on that. 

El51 A Yeah this, this was the final one. 

[I61 MR. BIENkRT: And then let’s go ahead and give him 

[ 17 1 the others. We have three others. 

1181 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q So, let’s give you those and have the court 

iio9:reporter identify them. 

1211 

[221 

(a~$gR~8!Wt2tkWB~-~, 

1231 for identiiication.) 

(241 BY MR. BIENERT: 

I251 Q lf you want, I’m going to spread mine out so I can 

* 

Page 169 

[ 1 Ijust eyeba;thegu;hile you tell us about them. 

[21 

I:ldon’t 

Q Okai. If you couM look at those others? Why 

[slit is, 

ou just go through each one by number and tell us what 

i/you know? 

A Oka well this is the -this one 26 is the 

IFistatement that Mit x ell. rriy press guy, issued oh rni behalf 

1s 1 and it’s similar to the press guidance that is in 25. I 

rslguess. 

1101 Q Okay. So. YOU had reviewed these before they went 

~11j0ut,amct? - - 

[I21 A 

Q 

Oh, yeah -well, I drafted it. 

Now, and I’m ‘ust goin to focus on WBR-25 which, 

i::ias I understand it, is one oft II e ones t 3, at went out. is that 

115 1 right. sir. 25? 

I161 A Yeah. yeah. 

Q 

!:i 1 Lewinskv was based on her a~alifications” - 

In talktng about “The decision to hire Ms. 

.__,~~ 

1191 * A Yeah. ’ 

Q 7he decision to hire Ms.” - I’m sorry. “The 

~:~~decision to hire Ms. Lewinsky was based on her 

[ 22 1 qualfications, initiative, and reputation as a hard worker.” 

I231 A. Right. 

0 And I really just want to focus on that last 

I::lportion. “reputation as a hard worker”. What, if any, effort 

_- 

Page 164 to Page 169 OIC-Starr 
BSA 

3428 

Ambassador William 8. Richardson, 4/30/98 

Page 170 

‘was made by ou or your office to determine anythrng about 

-5, 

:. her reputatAon y 

Well. this was m 

I ‘obviously - in the rntetvfe.v In I k 

thus was my phrase. She 

e resume, based on 

.5; anybody that works at the Whrte House and the Department of 

6: Defense, this is somethrrg !hat I sense very much was part of 

‘- her attraction to me, that she worked hard that she had 

: 3: initiative. that she had qua’lfications. Thai’s it. 

c j Q In terms of ‘reputation as a hard worker”, is it 

i ; 1 accurate. sir. that at leas! on that issue of what others 

: I j thou ht of her. in terms of workrng hard or not, that there 

:z!had %e en no inquiries made. to your knowledge. with anyone 

: 3: that she had worked with’ 

14; A Well. let ma say, John Podesta said to me he. wanted 

:j 1 me to Interview her. He mentioned Betty Curries name. Thus 

161woman worked at the White House, Legrslative Affairs. She 

:7 lworked at the Pentagon. She had a security clearance. She 

lalgave a good intervrew. She was - her qualtficabons were 

: g 1 consistent with the job that I wanted. I mean, that’s - 

701 Q So, d I understand the answer you have just given 

2 11 us, you are giving us reasons why you believed that this was 

22 j a good assessment of Ms. Lewrnsky In this press statement, is 

.~. 231that riaht? _ 

:24j A 

Q 

Right, right 

1251 My question though is a little more specific. Did 

Page 173 

Xu*x(291 

Page 171 

! 1 j you or anyone at our direction, to your knowledge, ever 

[: 1 speak to anyone Y hat MS Lewrnsk 

[ 3 jwhether shAe was or was not a har 1 ,worker? 

had worked with about 

[41 No. I I don’t. I don t know. I don’t think so. 

:5! BY MR. LERNER: 

Q So the reputation is based on the interview and, 

If I in addition, your cbnversatlon with - 

:9] 

[9! Aa My - John ‘udgment. Podesta? 

::?I A My .ud ment. 

. . . . Q RI bt. gut when John Podesta mentioned Ms. 

:;J ;Lewinsky to you, #e didn’t even mention her name. 

:13: A 

:141 Q !?,hltte really wasn’t vouching for her reputation or 

::s!her - 

!I61 A No, but - 

1171 

AQ 

- work ethic? 

!Iai - but he, he wanted me to talk to her. The 

i 19 1 assumption was that she had some qualifications to interview 

[zolher. So, that - I assumed that. And her resume assumed, 

(211 here’s somebod 

1221 BY M&. BIENERT: 

that in a short lie span has done a lot. 

Q Now, if we look at WBR-28, which has the ljl jhandwriti~ at the&ttom. sir? 

Page 172 

Q You’ll see the last line of what I’m assuming is a 

I: ;draft says,, “she was referred to us b 

f3lBetty Cumr , a;:;;& lined throug x 

John Podesta and by 

I41 

izl Lewinsk 

0 And then it says, “Alternative suggested: MS 

r 

was referred by rndrviduals with whom she had 

i 7 1 previous y~ork;!a”hDo you see that? 

[ai 

f91 Q Is that your writing? 

I101 A No. 

1111 Q 

IlZl A 

Did you - 

That s Coopers. 

Did you even see it in this version at all. to your 

y want to bring up 

r.. 

- Q a press release? 

r- A Well eventual1 

:? ‘how was she referred to me. L 

I assumed this would et out. how, 

ut 

:: ,out. I wasn’t going to fin 

: 3; Just because she was re 9 erred to US by John and Betty drdn’t 

I wasn’t goin~togu?names 

er anybody I made t e eclslon 

:;‘mean that that’s why I hired her. I. I made the decrsron to 

: - hrre her and I. and I was not - I don’t even remember seeing 

ij,thIS. _A But I remember somebody sayrn 

I f 5 :say that she was referred to us by John an 3. 

well, shouldn’t we 

Betty and I sard. 

[lit no. I hrred her. I’ll take the responsbilrty. and I want 

[ 1: 1 to get thrs,out today. I sard. I don’t want to. you know, 

[ I 3 I I’m not gorng to dilly-dally. Let’s get everythrn out u 

[ 14 1 front that we know now. This is our positron. 

[lslthe same day. 

?Ve gePit out 

[16] Q AndA 

I ::{to worry about. I’ve done no hing Im ro 

- this is routine. I have nothing 

I191 Q zvi:,o’:i! jook arti: which is the last 

fzoldocument - actually, I think it might be the one you had in 

I 2 I 1 front of vou. sir. 

i22j ’ A’ 25? 

1231 __ Q No, I’m sorry. 27. 

[241 A Right. 

1251 Q It’s this one. If you look at the - now, this 

Page 174 

[ 1 Iversion is a good bit different than what ultimately went 

i z 1 out, at lea: sornfvvkat different. 

[3! 

I41 Q %uld you agree? 

(5! A 

f61 Cl 

!‘: A 

RN’??did you even see this draft? 

No, I’didn t see it. 

iai Q 

r91to you? 

Okay. Does any of this language even look familiar 

Cl-Ii A No. 

Q 

i :: i what ultimatelv went out is different than this. is that 

In other words do you think that the fact that 

i I 3 j something that - would you have looked at this document and 

114 1 weighed rn on why it should be used and - 

I:Zlmyself. 

A No. No, I just drafted - I remember drafting it 

Q Oka Now, the position that youwere considering 

I :i 1 Ms. Lewinsky for I r. hrnk you told us the name of the person 

tl9lwho now has that job. 

[201 A Paul Aronsohn. 

I211 Q 

izzjtvlarch? 

Okay. And you believe he was hired in February or 

A Well no. He already was at the Missii. We just 

I::imoved him. He wa; in the political department So. we moved 

[zslhim. 

- 

Page 175 

And when was the decision made to fill that slot 

(6 1 puyview. And I agreed on one because I thought that two was 

~7 1 a lrttle excessive. And that was Aronsohn. 

Q And how many oeople were interviewed - and let’s 

Ii 1 ‘ust bracket the time. Obviously at this point we are 

1101 ( alkrng after the time that Ms. Lewinsky declined the job. 

1111 A Yeah. 

Q So sometime after early January but before 

i::;February or March, whenever Mr. Aronsohn was given that 

[ I 4 1 position, correct? 

A Yeah. 

Q 

A 

How many people were interviewed for that position? 

I don’t know. I don’t know. 

iiaj Q 

[lglfor it? 

Do you have any recollection of interviewing anyone 

A Yeah. I think I told you before that there were, 

I:;; there were some junior-type people that I met with that we 

(22 1 had thou ht about. Some names had come from the White House 

fz3lthat I thin R - Cooper may have interviewed some people. I 

[ 24 1 know she had resumes. 

(251 But that I personally interviewed? There may have 

OIC-Starr Page 170 to Page 175 
3429 

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAXIXI) 

Page 176 Page 179 

Q Ambassador RIchardson. before we broke, I was 

: asking you about some of the accounts In the press that you 

: might be currently being consldered for Secretary of Energy 

‘-To your knowledge, are you at present someone who IS being 

; -considered as a 

A 

ossible Secretary of Energy? 

- the extent of m 

&II. ( only read what 1 See In the paper. That’s 

Q 

knowledge of this. 

7s that a positIon. to your knowledge -- who WOL ;) 

_ appoint that positIon? 

. 

_. A The President would 

aware of the fact tha; 

as someone who 

c:‘been a cou le. I t3lnk. I, I don’t remember. 

g Weli whe? we were talking earlier. we were talking 

/; ,further back. We were ta.klng back before ou made the 

! 4 Ioffer I was Includ.ng the time period even 6 

i 5 1 the offer to Monica h?WlnSky 

efore you made 

ji‘ What I’m focusng In on now is a little more 

: 1 narrow: and that IS. the time penod after Ms. Lewlnsky 

; 3 : declined thAe ]o;e;;;h IS January - 

:Gi 

!:“’ Q - tnrou h the time that Mr. Aronsohn was - 

i:1; 9 

I:?. 

t Oh did IntervlFw other people? 

- hired for the ob or swltched to the job 

1; ~.During that narrow time peno , whtch I guess IS anywhere 

_d 1. 

I 14 !from a month to two. depending on when Mr. An?nsohn was 

i 15 1 switched, did you tntetvlew an 

I : t i but I 

A Yes. I belleve did Interview a couple of people, 

r_. one for that posItIon? 

I don’t know if it was specifically for that position. 

i 1~ 1 Iwa& sold on Coopeh argument that we should shift Aronsohn 

f 191 to that position. But we still had a slot. And so I wanted 

[zolto fill the slot. I have filled the slot. So I was 

I: 11 interviewin 

2 

people for the slot. 

ut Lewmsky’s position was taken by Aronsohn. SO, 

[i:lthere was no need to interview anybody for Aronsohn’s 

f 2 4 ! posttion. 

I251 Q So. your best recollection, if I understand it, is 

[I 1 you may have interviewed 

Page 177 

f:! employee. but it would not g 

eople for namely bei?g a new 

ave been for the posttion that 

(3 1 Lewinsky was offered because Aronsohn was already slated for 

i4jit? 

[51 A 

0 

Right. Right, right. 

Did you actually do an interview of Mr. Aronsohn 

I: j for that position? 

Iii! A Yeah. I had talked to Paul. and I had basically 

19: said to him, what do you want to do. He had come to me in _ 

[ 10; the fall and basically said. I want to work close with you In 

[I I I our personal office, and I’m not very ha 

P 8 

py doin 

[I?] ? he political section: and, as a matter of act, the 

my work in 

tate 

1: 3; Department has offered me 9 position in Washington, but I’d 

t 14 1 like to stayQherefieFr working with you. 

Cl51 

Ii7”; 

A So. thatwas an added incentive to give him this 

And Cooper wanted him anyway. So. we put him in 

[ISI P here 

osition. 

Q When. approximately when did he come to you with 

t$?ithat pitch, with that request? 

1211 A .--, About workinq for me - 

[221 Q Yes, sir. - 

1231 A 

Q 

in general? 

?es sir. About the fact that the State Department 

I::; had offered him a &sition. et cetera? 

_ 

Page 178 

A 

Q 

I think it was in, in January. 

It would have been post-Monica, as far as - 

A Yeah. I think so. Yeah. 

is4juntil 1:13 p.m. 

[251 BY t R. BIENERT: 

ton Post In Al Kamen’s 

i:i: Q And when would that have been? 

r.-l c_ A It was about two weeks ago. 

, . ; . 

1 Iijat an 

Q Is Secreta of Energ any position that you have 

time indicated to ot er politica associates or, 

&. 

x r 

::::frank , anyone for that matter, that you might have an 

;2; : interest in. 

r--i A No. In fact, I don’t see it as a job enhancement 

;?:fsituation. I, I think I’m better off where I am now. But, 

: 24 : no, no;l have never sought that posdion. No. 

:25: 0 So. is it accurate then that at this point no one 

: : : has affirmatively. other than reading press accounts. no one 

Page 180 

:z : has affirmative1 discussed the topic with you? 

!j; A {hat’s right. That’s right. 

::: Q And I’m sorry, you mght have said this, and I 

(5: might have just spaced. But is that someone that would be 

: E! appointed by the President? 

,-. A Yes. The President appoints the Secretary of 

izrjinattefi 

1251 A No. There’s, there’s no connedion whatsoever. 

Page 181 

(11 And it’s never crossed my mind. 

On the Monica Lewins&y thing. I - very clearly, 

i:iwhat I did was routine. I was not pressured. I feel very 

[ 4 Igood about what we did. I make no apologies. 

[51 But the answer is no. There is no linkage. They 

! sldon’t even know I’m here. 

MR. BIENERT: And I think we had one other document 

iiithat we wanted to go over with him. 

[91 (Exhibit WBR-29 was marked 

[lOI for identification.) 

[?1! BY MR. LERNER: 

1121 Q This, I guess, is a memo from lsabelle Watkins to 

[ I 3 1 you. It’s dated Janua 22nd. 

MR. BIENERT: 

i ‘;: i talking about WBR-29. 

Let me. just for the record we are 

BY MR. BIENERT: 

Page 176 to Page 181 OlC-starr 
3430 

BSA 

Page 182 

Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4/30/98 

Page 185 

A No. No, but, you know who Gene Randall is? He’s 

.: :wrth CNN. And he had done a drnner a year a o with a group 

3: of his frrends Debbie Schtff was there And 8 ene srnce 

_: : then, since I got a pointed, 

5; 

Y 

ou a drnner. An cf 

has been sayrng. I want to give 

we’ve been unable to give hrm a date. In 

o i act, we cancelled this date This never happened. 

-/ Q Okay. 

.z A So. and he had invrted - he IS a friend of Debbie 

3 1 and Jrm Schiff. 

::3. Cl Well, have you ever had a conversation with Debbie 

:i, ‘Schrff abo;t Le;;sky? _I ., 

-- 2 

.l?! Q Do you have any idea why Debbie Schiff was the 

1: I erson - If you recall, she was the one who on October 21 st 

; : j 1 ,P axed the resume to your office in New York. Do you have any 

I 6 I idea whv Debbie Schiff at least is the named person sendrng 

i :; i the fax?- 

‘.;il /.A> A She did? I didn’t know that. 

!I91 BY MR. BIENERT: 

::0! Q Well, let’s back up and just make sure we’re being 

.:1 ,-A Iprecise. As 

::? I- I think it’s t K 

ou may recall, and we can show you the exhtbrt 

e first or second exhrbtt - the fax 

:: 3 j notation at the top of the resume says DebI Schiff. 

i-‘l! BY MR. LERNER: 

:25i Q That doesn’t necessarily mean that she was the 

Page 183 Page 186 

: : 1 person sending it. 

.‘I 

i;! 

gy M~h.;tenn@ Oh, yeah 

‘i! Q 

:51 A 

;ia cru see that, sir? 

K 

.il Q What is that. that’s WBR-I? 

A/ 

‘-1 ,& Yeah. 

:sj BY MR. LERNER: 

Q Let me just be clear. That doesn’t necessarily 

, i zimean that she was the person who actually Inset-ted the page .I 

; :: 1 in the fax machrne. But - 

I>-‘! A No, I don’t know why. I don’t know why. Maybe a 

: : 3 1 lot of people use her fax. I don’t know. 

il41 0 Right. 

::51 BY MR. BIENERT: 

0 Have you gotten together socially on any occasions 

iitiwith Debbie Schiff? 

A Well. that - a year ago, yeah. Or maybe - no. 

I :“,i It was when I was in the Congress. I thank it was two years 

[: o 1 ago at her home, at the home of Randall. 

[I;lwith him? 

Q And since that time, have you ever gotten together 

I231 A NO. 

1241 Cl I said him, I meant with her? 

1251 A No, no. 

Page 184 

Q Now, you can’t help but note that just 

ii jcoincidentally the date of this memo to you is January 22nd 

[ 3 1 the date the sto broke in the Monica Lewinsky matter, and 

:~lmethatitwas~ncelled. 6Iasitcan<ed-thefactof 

[ 4 1 it was schedule for short1 thereafter and you indicated to 

f 61 the cancel~tion&d it have anything to do with this - 

3rd? No no. It’s ‘ust - 

In other’words. I il ad to. I 

be something not related to 

i 13 j Monica Lewinskybr the - 

I141 

,151 Aa 3ah* Issue “O.. wrth the President? .--I 

[161 A No it wouldn’t. 

[I”] MR. LERNER: A couple last questiOnS. 

r191 

L-s/ BY MR. LERNER: 

Q You probably answered this. But. other than that 

iii i one meeting with Betty Currie in which you hugged, you had no 

: 2 : ; conversation with her - 

[??I 

I-‘31 Aa Wth about Betty7 Monica Lewinsky? 

iZ4j A No. 

[‘Sj Q And how would you describe your relationship with 

: : Be!?y Currjqe? 

,_ 

,- Oh, I think we’re - I lrke her a lot. She’s a 

7 ve;y sweet 

‘; the White J 

erson We’re not parhcularly close. She IS - 

ouse office ad)orning the Presrdent It’s a ver_, 

15 person. 

[CI MR BIENERT- Okay. I thank that’s all we hai? and 

I 1;: we appreccate our time 

i??: VID~OGRAPHER: The Interview is conclude- at 

,!:‘l 20.38. 

113’ THE WITNESS: 

[;I: VIDEOGRAPHER: 

CanBa~~o;; just say one tn..-g7 

il5 THE WITNESS: Yeah. back on, because it rea:es to 

[16;- you asked me. 

iI7! VIDEOGRAPHER: The hme is 1:20:49 

118’ BY MR. BIENERT: 

When we went off, Ambassador Richardson 

1 I; I IntervIewed that were corn etitive 

:Z I Lewrnskv. I did want to fill t R 

necessarily with 

izjnumber bfgeoyle. 

e slot. So. I interviewed a 

nd just wanted to be clear. You asked me to 

; 5; oroduce names of oeoole that I interviewed for Lewinskv’s 

; 6; slot. I .ust want to be &ear that if I talked to anybody,~ ’ 

[ 7 1 it was I or positrons in the Mission in the public affairs 

[ 8 1 area, not necessarily Lewinsky’s, because we eventually 

[ 9 lfilled rt with Aronsohn. 

[lOI Do you see what I’m saying? 

I111 Q Right. And when you say you would have interviewe 

[ 1~ 1 someone for a position, you just mean a body, but for a 

[ I 3 1 different jo; funyz;r$ than - 

(141 

i :Z j later got? 

Q - you interviewed Lewinsky. and that Aronsohn 

I :l i think I’m t 

A 

‘1; 

ing 

Yeah. Yeah. I just want to - so that you dent 

to come up with names that don’t exist. 

1191 

A 

Okay. 

I mean, t’m atways interviewin 

I:; i times, junior positions. And, you know, I wan 9 

pe_oqt,adt $I 

to 

[ 22 1 letter from a woman who. from New Jerse 

t23json calfed the U.S. Missron at the United R* 

who said to me. my 

ations and wanted 

124 1 to interview for a job with you. And he got a cold shoulder. 

[ 2 5 1 Yet you interviewed Monica Lewinsky because she had some 

Rage 187 

[I 1 friends in high faces. 

And P remember getting that letter and having 

i: 1 lsabelte call that woman and say, you know, you have a point 

(4 1 I’ll interview your son. And I intervrewed her son and I’m 

(5 1 keeping him in a pool. 

Itijury. But I 

But I’m not trying to gain points with the grand 

I do I am very en aged in personnel issues. 

But I want to make%vo things very dear. Number 

Ii lone under no circumstances did I ever discuss Monica 

f 10 1 Lednsky with the President or Paula Jones. 

And, number two, we did not hold the job open for 

crisis, so we were consum& by 

[1Bl 

[ 19 I it. 

What is my last point? Let’s see. That’s about 

I201 MR. BIENERT: 

121 ~deposition. Thanks agarn. 

Okay. That will conclude the 

(Whereupon, at 1:24 p.m., the proceedings were 

jjijconduded.) 

125; 

We 

OIC-Starr Page 182 to Page 187 
3431 

BSA 

Page 0 

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 

., 

.-. CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER - NOTARY PUBLIC 

- I. Elizabeth A. Eastman, the officer before whom 

: j, the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereb certify that 

: 4 : the witness whose testrmony appears in the Y oregomg 

F i’deposrtion was duly sworn by me; that the testimon 

x 

of said 

I c ‘wetness was taken by me electromcally and therea er reduced 

- ‘to t 

: 5 ‘oft t; 

pewnting by me: that sard deposrtron IS a true record 

e testimony gtven by said witness, that I am nerther 

I G. counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the partres 

! 15 : to the action in which this deposition was taken and, 

I :; : further, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney 

: :z : or counsel emplo ed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 

I i,‘otheWrse interes Y ed tn the outcome of the action. 

Ilij 

115. 

i161 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 

i 17 j My Commission Expires: 

r19;July 31.2000 

i19j - 

[201 

i2ll 

172; 

1231 

I24J 

1251 

Page 0 to Page 0 

XMAX(121 
3432 

United States Department of State 

JVashington, D.C. 20520 

January 29,1998 

By Messenger 

?%& of t&&dependent Counsel 

100 1 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW 

Suite 490N 

Washington, DC 20004 

Subject: Federal Grand Jury Subpoenas directed to the United States Mission to 

the United Nations and Ambassador William Richardson (D828 and D829) 

The enclosed documents are being provided to you in response to the Federal 

Grand Jury Subpoenas dated January 22,1998, which were directed to the United States 

Mission to the United Nations and to Ambassador William Richardson. We are also in 

receipt of the letter of January 23,1998, from the Independent Counsel to the Legal 

Adviser of the Department of State. 

The enclosed documents are being provided in confidence for grand jury purposes 

only. Some of the documents may be subject to protection as privileged, or may involve 

interests which are otherwise protected by law, including personal privacy. All such 

information must be protected from unauthorized disclosure. 

D. Stephkr Mathias 

Assistant Legal Adviser 

Legislation and General Management 

828~DC-oooooool 
3433 

Monica S. Lewinsky 

Education: 

Lewis and Clark College Portland, Oregon 

Bachelor of Science in Psychology May 1995 

Experience: 

Depart& 5 T&e Pentagon Washington, D.C. 

Confidential Assistant to the Assistant Secrela.ry’of Defense for Public Affairs 

April 1936 - present 

Serve as principal assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense (ASD) for Public Affairs in support of 

his dual role as both Department of Defense spokesman and head of Department of Defense Public 

Affairs. Assist in preparing the ASD for bi-weekly press briefings. Interact with the national print and 

broadcast media on the ASD’s behalf. Provide the ASD with timely updates of current media stories. 

Act as liaison with the offices of the Secretary, the White House, other Cabinet Secretaries and the 

National Security Council. Provide support to the Secretary of Defense and Assistant Secretary on 

frequent i ‘on 1 trgvel which includes a contingent of traveling media. Handle the ASD’s daily 

schedule ~!!!%%!$$~dknce. 

The White House Washington, D.C. 

Staff Assistant to Director of Legislative Affairs Correspondence, November 1995 - April 1996 

Wrote drafts and correspondence for Staff Secretary’s approval and ultimately the President’s 

signature, which often required research of various Administration issues and policies. Coordinated 

mass mailings to Congress for the President and other Senior Administration officials. Processed and 

vetted all incoming mail to the President from Congress. Trained and supervised new interns on White 

House procedure and preparation of White House correspondence. 

The \Vhite House Washington, D.C. 

Swnrner Intern Office of the Chief of Staff, July - November 1995 

Drafted form letters and individual responses for the Chief of Staffs signature. Acted as a liaison for 

Chief of Staffs office to other White House offices, Cabinet agencies, and Congressional offices. 

Updated office manual. Supervised and coordinated intern and volunteer staff. 

Metropolitan Public Defenders Portland, Oregon 

Alternatives Staff, February - May 1995 

Implemented new psychology expert reference techniques. Assisted attorneys in finding viable 

alternatives to prison for their clients. Directed clients in successful search for support, shelter, food 

and transportation. Updated files on resource materials. 

Southeast Mental Health Network (Practicum) Portland, Oregon 

Socialization Staff Assistant, January - June 1994 

Assisted staff in teaching socialization skills to mentally ill clients to ea,pe their integration back into 

society. Updated clients’ confidential reports. Coordinated fund rai.sing LO beneCc extra-curricular 

theatre activities. 

Additional Information: 828-DC-ooooooo2 

l TS-SC1 Clearance: Current 

l Proficient in Macintosh for Microsoft Word 6.0, WordPerfect for Windows 5.2, Quorum, and lnfosys. 
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828-DC- 
3436 

01122198 10:56RM USMISSION USUN NY PFIGE 001 OF 001 

USUN - JANUARY 22.1998 

MONICA LEWINSKY JOB OFFER A?‘ USUN 

Background: Ambassador Richardson, who lives full-time in New York as the 

I IS. Permaircnt Representative to the United Nations, regularly stays at the 

Watergate Hotel when in D.C. for meetings at the White House or on the Hill. 

JIe often has meetings at the hotel. His Chief of Staff, Rebecca Cooper. is based in D.C. 

Q: Did Ambassador Richardson offer Monica Lcwinsky a job at USUN? 

A; Last night Ambassador Richardson’s Spokesman said: 

Monica Lcwinsky was offered a junior public at’fairs position at the U.S. Mission to the 

IJnited Nations after being interviewed by Ambassador Richardson and his Chief of Staff 

in October 1997. The decision to hire Ms. Lewinsky was based on her qualifications. 

initiative. and reputation as a hard worker. The position she was offered was consistent 

with her background and cxpcrience at the Department of Defense and the White House, 

and not based on any other factors. She subsequently informed the Mission that. despite 

her initial interest in employment at the Mission, she wished to pursue employment in the 

private sector. There was no prcssurc by any individual to hire her and nothing improper 

occurred. The Ambassador routinely meets with qualified candidates for employment at 

the U.S. Mission. 

The Ambassador and his staff only learned of allegations and leaks about this individual 

this morning through the news media. 

OPTIONAL FORM 93 (7-901 

FAX TRANSMITTAL ‘dP%J-D 

.__-i 

__.___ ____..-.- . ..- 

Fax * Fax l 

_ -. ..___ . _____-__ 

NSN 7540.01 317.7368 SO99 101 GENERAL SERVICES ADMlNlSTAATlON 
3437 

01/22/98 10:59QM USMISSION USUN NY PAGE 001 

ardson hlenriewed Monica Lt3Msky for a pb lasi year. w 

U.N. ambassador 

insists he offered 

her a job on merit 

OF 001 

828-DC-00000006 
3438 

01/21/98 03:05PM USMISSION USUN NY P67GE 001 OF 001 

Statement by Calvin Mitchell 

Spokesman for Ambassador Bill Richardson 

US Mission to the UN. New York, New York 

January 2 1, 1998 

Ambassador Richardson and his Chief of Staff met with Monica Lewinsky regarding a 

position in October of 1997. She was subsequently offered a position at US Mission to 

the UN. ‘The position was an entry-level staff position in the press office in New York. 

Soon thereafter, she informed the Mission that despite her initial interest in employment 

at the Mission, she wanted to pursue employment in the private scdor. There was no 

pressure by any individual to hire her and nothing improper occurred. The Ambassador 

routinely meets with qualified candidates for employment referred by members of the 

Administration or Members of Congress. Sf--d by 4 

Re&f4&+% 

828-Dc-ooooooo7 
3439 

Monica Lewinsky was offered a staff assistant position with the United States Mission to 

the United Nations in December of last year. Ms. Lewinsky had expressed an interest in 

the position, based on her previous work in the office of the Assistant Secretary for Public 

Affairs at the Pentagon and at the White House. As a result of her qualifications and 

recommendations, Ms. Lewinsky was offered an entry level position assisting in press 

and public outreach. Despite her initial pursuit of employment at the Mission, Ms. 

Lewinsky decided to decline the offer, citing a desire to work in the private sector. 

POSSIBLE ADDITIONAL SENTENCE: 

Ms. Lewinsky is a bright young woman who established an excellent reputation with her 

supervisors for hard work and dedication to government service. We wish her well as she 

pursues her future endeavors. 

POSSIBLE ADDITIONAL SENTENCE: 

At no time did Ambassador Richardson or anyone on his staff discuss Ms. Lewinsky’s 

employment with the President of the United States or Vernon Jordan. 

828-DC-OO0OOoo8 
3440 

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX 03: 19 UTC WED JAN 21 1998 XXXXX 

CONTROVERSY SWIRLS AROUND TAPES OF FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN, AS STARR 

MOVES IN! 

**World Exclusive* * 

**Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT*+ 

Federal investigators are now in possession of intimate taped conversations of a former White House intern, 

age 23, discussing details of her alleged sexual relationship with President Clinton, the DRUDGE REPORT 

has learned. 

The tapes were made by a federal employee who has been granted immunity. MORE 

According to sources in and out of government, Whitewater independent counsel Kenneth Starr became 

involved in the situation when he received intelligence that senior administration officials may have offered 

federal jobs to a young woman in an effort to prevent stories from going public -- stories involving sexual 

episodes that allegedly occurred in a room off the Oval Office. 

“Starr is not on the bimbo beat,” one source close to the situation told the DRUDGE REPORT late 

Tuesday. “He’s looking at a potential for obstruction of justice charges.” 

A breakfast meeting that took place at The Watergate Hotel has attracted the attention of investigators. 

The development has completely consumed high-level Washington, with Starr’s investigators working past 

midnight in recent days. Developing.. 
3441 

10-08-l 997 1 : 38PM FROM AMELRICHAROSON 2124154303 

l . 

P. 7 

OIiF’ICE OF LEGISLA’IWE 

FAX COVER SBEET 

_ JOHNHIL.LEY 3- SUSAN BROPHY 

_ ViRG?Nh RUSTQUIZ *JL- TiwPDoNmLLY 

4562230 (lZ.LEPHoNE) 

456-622O(FAx) 

. 

* Note: The information contained in this fatitilt message is CONFII)ENTUL, 

and intended for the recipient ONLY _ f f there is a problem with the eum,ision, please 

contact Be sendu as soon as possible. 

828-DC-OOOOOOlO 

- -- - -.. .- 

w...im _____^~~--1 be.-- ._ .._ ._- 
3442 

01/21/98 06330 ‘13L202 647 0122 

me-- --Timlmm-- --ml-- 

@loo2 

m \ / 

APM-Whitewater-Clinton, 1st Ld-Writethru,o672 

‘9Vhitewater prosecutor expand probe into Paula Jones case 

AEDS: INSERTS grafs 7-8. ‘Bennett told X)Q( with Bennett passing on Clinton denial: report that 

investigators have 20 hours of tapes and Jordan no comment 

“By JOHN SOLOMON= %ssociated Press Writer= 

WASHINGTON (AP) Whitewater p mseoutor Kenneth Starr% 3@1/2-year investigation 

has expended into new territory whether President Clinton tried to influence a former White House 

intern’s testimony in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit 

The former intern. Monica S. Lewinsky. has signed a declaration in the Jones’ lawsuit 

denying she ever had a sexual relationship with the president and stands by that assertion. her 

lawyer said. 

Attorney William H. Ginsburg of Los Angeles said his client has not been formally 

interviewed by 

Gins g 

rosecutors but that he has met in Washington with St&s investigators. 

urg said the Justice Department had approved a formal 

Whitewater investigation. “I know that Janet Reno has definitei 

The Washington Post and The Los Angeles Times, 

along with ABC News, reported in today’s editions that the 

that oversees Stan’s probe also approved the expansion. 

Clinton’s private attorney in the Jones’ case, Robert Bennett, muld not be reached for 

comment early today. Clinton repeatedly has denled Jones’ allegations that he sexual1 harassed 

her while Arkansas governor and last weekend was deposed by Ms. .Jonw’ attorneys r or six hours. 

Bennett told the Post the president has denied having an affair with the intern and noted 

that she also had denied it in an affidavit. * 

NBC News, which said investigators are working with 20 hours of tape-recorded 

conversations in the case, said it reaohsd Jordan overnight at a New York hotel and that he . 

dedined to comment 

The latest development marks a departure for Starr’s investigation, whioh for the past 

3@1/2 years has focused on the Clintons’ falled Whitewater land venture and other Arkansas 

business dealings and whether since coming to WashIngton the first family or their atdes have done 

anything to Impede that investigation. 

Ginsburg declined to discuss the specifics of what he talked about with Starr’s 

investigators, but confinned he had met with them in Washington. 

He said Ms. Lewinsky was scheduled to be deposed later this week by Jones’ attorneys 

in the sexual harassment lawsuit. 

Earkerr? Ms. Lewlnsky provided a written statement in the lawsuit denying she ever had a 

sexual ralationsnrp with Clinton while an intern at the White House, Ginsburg said. 

“At this time, she stands by her declaration,” the lawyer said. 

The limes and ABC News reported that Starr was investigating whether Clinton deployed 

his friend and trusted adviser, Vernon Jordan, a Washington attorney. to discuss with Lewlnsky her 

testimony. 

The two reported that Starr’s of&e had received a tip from a former associate of 

Lewinsky, Linda Tripp, that prompted the investigation. 

The Washington Post and ABC reported that Tripp provided Starr with audiotapes that 

she recorded of conversations she had with Lewinsky in which the former intern recounted details of 

a 1 @l&year affair she said she had with Clinton. Ms. Lewinsky started working at the White 

House in December 1996. 

Both newspapers and ABC said that, according to sources, Ms. Lewinsky said in one of 

the taped oonversations that Clinton and Jordan had asked her to deny to Ms. Jones’ lawyers that 

she had had a telatlonship with the president. 

After workin as an intern at the white House, Ms. Lewinsky worked in the public affairs 

department at the Pen % gon along with Trtpp- She laft the job, but it had nothing to do with the 

sexual harassment case, Ginsburg said. 

Ms. Lewinsky remains in Washington, her lawyer said. 

82%DC-00000011 

(Copyright 1988 by The Associated Press. A3 Rights Reserved.) 
3443 

,. Monica S. Lewineky 

. 

. 

. 

Education: 

Lewis and Clark College Portland, Oregon 

Bachelor of Science in Faychology May 1995 

Experience: 

Department of Defense The Pentagon Washington, D.C. 

Confidential Assistant to the As&ant Secretury of Defense for Public Affairs 

April 1996 - present 

Serve as principal assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defenae (ASD) for Public Affairs in support of 

his dual role as both Department of Defense spokesman and head of Department of Defense Public 

Affaire. Aseist in preparing the ASD for b&weekly press briefings. Interact with the national print end 

broadcast media on the ASD’s behalf. Provide the ASD with timely updates of current media stories. 

Act au liaison with the offices of the Secretary, the Wbits Houee, other Cabinet Secretaries and the 

National Security Council. Provide eupport to the Secretary of Defense and Aesietant Secr&ary on 

&equent international travel which includes a contingent of traveling media. Handle the ASD’e daily 

schedule and correspondence. 

The White House Washington, D.C. 

Staff Assistant to Llirector of Legi&tivc Affcrirs Cbirespondqtce, November 1995 - April 1996 

Wrote drafts and correspond&e fir staff Secretary’e approval and ultimately the President’s 

eignature. which often required research of various Administration isbuee and policies. Coordinated 

mass mailings to Congrese for the President and other Senior Administration o5cials. Processed and 

vetted all incoming mail to the President from Congress. Trained and supervised new interns on White 

House procedure and preparation of White Houae correspondence. 

The White House Waehington, D.C. a 

Summer Idem Office of the Chief of Staff, July - November 1995 

Drafted form letters and individual responses for the Chief of Staffs signature. Acted as,a~liaiacm for 

Chief of Staffs office to other Whits House offices, Cabinet agencies, and.Congreeei&al o&es. 

Updated o5ce manual. Supervised and coordinated intern and voldnteer staff. * 

Metropolitan Public Defenders Portland, Oregon 

Alternatives Stuff, February - May 1995 

Implemented new psychology expert reference techniques. Aesisted attorneys in finding viable 

alternatives to prison for their clients. Directed clienta in eucceeeful search for support, shelter, food 

and transportation. Updated filee on resource materials. 

Southeast Mental Health Network (Practicum) Portland, Oregon 

Sociakation Staff Assietant, January - June 1994 

As&ted staff in teaching eocialization skilla to mentally ill clients to ease their integration back into 

society. Updated clients’ confidentiaI reports. Coordinated fund raising to benefit extra-curricular 

theatre activities. 

Additional Information: 828-DC-00000012 

* TSSCI Clearance: Current 

l Proficient in Macintosh for Microsoft Word 6.0, WordPerfect for Windows 5.2, Quorum, and Infosye. 
_, ; 

.’ . 

3444 

, :,,,T 

3 November 1997 

The Honorable Bill Richardson 

United States Ambassador to the United Nations 

799 United Nations Plaza 

New York, New York 10017 

Dear Ambassador Richardson: 

It was a pleasure meeting with you last Friday morning. I know how very busy 

and demanding your schedule is; I particularly appreciated your taking the 

time to speak with me. 

It was an honor to meet you. The US Mission to the United Nations is certainly 

in good hands with you at the helm. 

Again, thank you for your time. 

Sincerely, 

Lyy(W+ 

Monica Lewinsky 
3445 

January 22, 1998 

TO: Bill 

FROM: Isabelle 

RE: Calls/scheduling 

Gene Randall is sending directions to his home. The 

dinner is scheduled on Tues., Feb. 3, as you noted. He 

expects Bill Press and his wife,. Jam&s and Debbie Schiff 

(White House) to join you. 

828-DC-OOOOOO14 
3446 

TO: Ambassador Richardson 

FROM: Mona Sutphen 

SUBJECT: Tidbits 

1. Ollie Olivas: I spoke to Laurie Shestack about the call she 

received from Michael Olivas. She said she told Olivas you were 

out of the country and asked whether the information about his 

father's death should be passed to you immediately. Olivas said 

'I no . ‘I She also said she mentioned it to Ben on Monday or Tuesday 

(12/29 or 12/30) and that he asked her to write it down -- hence 

the e-mail she sent on Friday l/2 (after the New Year's 

holiday). When I asked her why she delayed in passing the 

information, she commented that there was no sense of urgency on 

Olivas' part and that she sent it to Ben immediately upon her 

return after the holiday. 

2. Monica Lewinsky: She has declined the position in the hopes 

of going private sector (e.g. Burston-Marsteller or the like). 

She thanked you again for giving her the option to come to USUN. 

She'd like to call sometime this week to thank you in person. Do 

you want her to call or should I tell her to send you a note? 

828-DC-OOOOOO15 
.: 

TO: Ambassador Richardson 

FROM: Mona Sutphen 

SUBJECT: Tidbits 

1: Ollie Olivas: I spoke to Laurie Shestack about the call she 

received from Michael Olivas. She said she told Olivas you were 

out of the country and asked whether the information about his 

f her's death should be passed to you immediately. 

s' 

Olivas said 

'no." She also said she mentioned it to Ben on Monday or Tuesday 

",(12/29 or 12/30) and that he asked her to write it down -- hence 

the e-mail she sent on Friday l/2 (after the New Year's 

holiday) . When I asked her why she delayed in passing the 

information, she commented that there was no sense of urgency on 

Olivas' part and that she sent it to Ben immediately upon her 

return after the holiday. 

2. Monica Lewinsky: She has declined the position in the hopes 

of going private sector (e.g. Burston-Marsteller or the like). 

She thanked you again for giving her the option to come to USUN. 

She'd like to call sometime this week 

you want her to call or should I te 

4 

to thank you in person. Do 

her to send you a note? 

.: GOVERNMENT 

828-DC-oooooo17 
3448 

Martindale, Lynn 

From: Logsdon, Wayne 

To: Martindale, Lynn 

Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position 

Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:44AM 

You know what I know. wkl 

-----Original Message----- 

From: Martindale, Lynn 

Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:23 AM 

To: Logsdon, Wayne 

Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position 

So now, who’s on first???? 

Im 

2 GOVERNMENTm 

f EXHIBIT 

From: Logsdon, Wayne 

To: Burleigh, Peter 

Cc: Martindale, Lynn 

Subject: RE: USUNA# secretarial position 

Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:43AM 

Peter, 

Thanks for the heads-up. I had initiated the cancellation already since he wanted it done. We look bad 

waffling on these issues. We need a clearer guidance on the process involving such issues under Amb 

Richardson. Tks. wkl 

-----Original Message----- 

From: Burleigh, Peter 

Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:27 AM 

To: Logsdon, Wayne 

Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position 

WKL - I spoke about this issue with Rebecca Cooper on Friday. She is going to reclama with Richardson 

today (Monk, since she says he had approved the switch and she still wants it done. Stay tuned. (And 

don’t cancel the personnel action yet), APB 

From: Logsdon, Wayne 

To: Martindale, Lynn; Frazier, Tracy L; Fairman, Deborah J 

Cc: Garvin, Emma; Burfeigh, Peter 

Subject: USUNNV secretarial position 

Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 3:21 PM 

Lynn/Tracy, 

1 have just been instructed by Ambassador Richardson personally not/not to change the USUN/W 

secretarial position to Foreign Service. I know that the paperwork has gone through already and that we 

are scouring the landscape for someone in the FS to fill the slot. I explained that Ms. Cooper asked us to 

do this and do it quickly. However, he is adamant about keeping it a schedule C-type position. 

I apologize for the seeming lack of coordination on this issue. I will take the matter up with Rebecca 

Cooper personally if you could reverse our previous action and bring it back to a schedule C. 

Thanks loads for your help and understanding. wkl _ .- 

828-Dc-oooooo18 

Page 1 
3449 

Martindale, Lynn 

From: 

To: 

cc: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Logsdon, Wayne 

Martindale, Lynn 

Burleigh, Peter 

Monica Lewinski 

Tuesday, December 23, 1997 3:36PM 

Lynn, 

If this name pops up on your screen, it is one the Ambassador has in mind of bringing on-board as a 

secretary I believe. More to come as I know it. wkl 

f GOVERNMENT 

EXHIBIT 

W&/z-/6 

9GG----&A 

Page 1 
VISITOR NOTIFICATION - RESIDENCE 1 I5198 

Name: Arrival Date: Arrival Time: Departure Date: Departure Time: Remarks: 

GABRIEL, ED 1 I7198 

JORDAN, VERNON 

2000 llB/9B . unknown 

1 I6198 0800 1 I6198 unknown Breakfast 

828-DC-00000020 

ACTION : (see RSO Instruction 97- 19) UP0 DISTRIBUTION: SCP (US 1) 

US 6 

Page 1 
3451 

t&UN - JANIJARY 22. 1998 

MONICA LEWINSKY JOB OFFER AT USUN 

Background: Ambassador Richardson, who lives full-time in New York as the 

U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations, regularly stays at the 

Watergate Hotel when in D.C. for meetings at the White House or on the Hill. 

He often has meetings at the hotel. His Chief of Staff, Rebecca Cooper, is based in D.C. 

Q: Did A m ba ssa d or R’ tc h ar d son offer Monica Lewinsky a job at USUN? 

A: Last night Ambassador Richardson’s Spokesman said: 

Monica Lewinsky was offered a junior public affairs position at the U.S. Mission to the 

United Nations after being interviewed by Ambassador Richardson and his Chief of Staff 

in October 1997. The decision to hire Ms. Lewinsky was based on her qualifications, 

initiative. and reputation as a h. ,,rf worker. The position she was offered was consistent 

\\-ith her background and expertence at the Department of Defense and the White House. 

and not based on any other factors. She subsequently informed the Mission that, despite 

her initial interest in employment at the Mission, she wished to pursue employment in the 

private sector. There was no pressure by any individual to hire her and nothing improper 

occurred. The Ambassador routinely meets with qualified candidates for employment at 

the U.S. Mission. 

The Ambassador and his staff only learned of allegations and leaks about this individual 

this morning through the news media. 

828-DC-OOOOOO21 
3452 

Statement by Calvin Mitchell 

Spokesman for Ambassador Bill Richardson 

US Mission to the United Nations 

New York, New York 

January 2 1, 1998 

Monica Lewinsky was offered a junior public affairs position at the U.S. Mission to the 

United Nations after being interviewed by Ambassador Richardson and his Chief of Stafl’ 

in October 1997. The decision to hire Ms. Lewinsky was based on her qualifications. 

initiative, and reputation as a hard worker. The position she was offered was consistent 

with her background and experience at the Department of Defense and the White House, 

and not based on any other factors. She subsequently informed the Mission that, despite 

her initial interest in employment at the Mission, she wished to pursue employment in the 

private sector. There was no pressure by any individual to hire her and nothing improper 

occurred. The Ambassador routinely meets with qualified candidates for employment at 

the U.S. Mission. 

The .4mbassador and his staff only learned of allegations and leaks about this indi\.idual, 

this morning through the news media. 

giyif 

828-DC-OOOfKJO22 
3453 

2 November 1997 

Dear Betty: 

: GOVERNMENT 

f 

EXHIBIT 

I&!#-7 

I hope you had an enjoyable weekend. I thought I’d drop you a note since it’s so difficult for both 

of us to talk at work! 

I became a bit nervous this weekend when I realized that Amb. Richardson said his staff would 

be in touch with me this we&. As you know, the UN is supposed to be my back up but because 

VJ has been out of town, this is my only option right now. What should I say to Richardson’s 

people this week when they call? I had mentioned to Richardson that working there was one of 

the things I was looking at. It probably sounds stupid, but I have absolutely no idea how to tell 

them, “I’m not sure yet”, in a business-like manner. If you feel it’s appropriate, maybe you could 

ask “the big guy” what he wants me to do. Ahhhhh...anxiety!!!!! 

Also, I don’t think I told you that in my conversation last Thursday night wtth him that he said he 

would ask you to set up a meeting between VJ and myself, once VJ got back. I assume he’ll 

mention this to you at some point - hopefully sooner rather than later! 

I am enclosing a copy for VJ of the list of advertising/PR finns that I included in “the big guy’s” 

packet. My hopes are that one of the names will jump out as a place where he o/J) might have 

a contact. 

I mentioned to him that Id like to drop by on Sat. to give you your birthday present and to see 

him for a bit. He seemed somewhat receptive and said he’d check it out this week. Of course, 

he’ll forget because in the whole scheme of things it’s not that important and I will, of course, 

probably have to bug you towards the end of the week with this (something to look forward to I’m 

sure)!!!!! 

I hope to hear from you soon with some guidance. I am mailing my “thank-you-for-meeting-withme-letter” to Richardson today. I was pleased the UN interview went well, but I’m afraid it will be 

like being at the Pentagon in NY...YUCK! PLEASE let me know what to do soon!!!! 

1,000 thank you’s. 

Hugs n’ kisses, 

MSL-55-DC4179 
3454 

CA Davis 

From: 

Sent: 

To: 

Subject: 

Lewinsky, Monica, . OSDIPA[SMTP:mlewinsk@pagate.pa.osd 

VVVdr;ir;ay, November 05, 1997 2:16 AM 

RE: troubs? 

OK. I have some bad news. I am off the next trip so i won’t be coming to 

Tokyo. I am probably sorrier than you are. the truth is it would have been 

so difficult to spend time together and it probably would have benn more 

frustrating than anything. 

The job thing on Friday went much better than expected. It was nice; the 

big creep called thursday night and gave me a pep talk because i was so 

afraid I’d sound like an idiot. Richardson is a great guy and i met two 

women who work for him...also very cool. Yesterday, Richardson called me at 

work and told me they were going to offer me a position..they didn’t know 

what yet, and they wanted to talk with me further. The problem is, I don’t 

really wnat to work there (issue wise or location wise) I’ve already had 

the experience of working in a yucky building. It was awful, actually, 

because i feel a liie trapped into taking it. HOPEFULLY, there will be 

some movement on the other tracks in NY too. I told mr. bacon I was 

planning to move and was in the process of looking...which is why i asked 

him if i could switch trips with tom. The biggest reason i need to do that 

was because the creep’s friend who is supposed to help me with the private 

sector possibilities has been out of town the last two weeks. I feel like 

I’ll lose momentum with them if i disappear for three weeks now (that’s 

including Thanksgiving). Oy vey! 

I’m glad to hear you guys had such a nice weekend. Honestly Cat, it sounds 

like such a wonderful fantasy to me. To be with yourr husband - as part of 

a couple with other couples doing couple-y kinds of things and having fun. 

My Australian boyfriend CALLED me on Friday to let me know his e-mail was 

down., He said it had become habit to e-mail me friday nights and he wanted 

to let me know he couldn’t send anything. I know...when’s the wedding????? 

Just kiddin’. 

i miss you tons and am so sad I won’t see you, but maybe we’ll work 

something out soon. When do you guys come to the states..for holiday? and 

for good? 

kisses and hugs 

Monica 

-- 

From: CA Davis 

To: ‘mlewinsk@pagate.pa.osd.mil’ 

Subject: troubs? 

Date: Monday, Novembei 03.1997 7:15PM 

Hi, I sent you a message called ‘quickie’ last wk. but it was = 

undeliverable for awhile so I’m hoping this will reach you. You’d think = 

the fn Pentagon could have straightened out email! Anyway, how did = 

vour ‘meetina’ oo last week? I’m seeina the man on tellie alot because = 

bf the Iraqi n%%ense. I think that could be a cool job, maybe better = 

than the DOD. 

I had a long wkend away from home. We went to a friend‘s ofice’s = 

cottage at Lake Kawaguchi. Its Susan’s office’s cottage and she invited = 

us and 2 other couples for the 3day wkend- so 4 couples all together. = 

It was fun- we drank a lot, ate a lot, hiked, walked, lounged, played = 

games etc.1 was about ready to go home Sunday evening but we left Mon. 

morning. I was getting tired of being surrounded by Brits! Actually = 

one couple is made up of a German woman and a man, Gavin, who is = 

= 

Page 1 

: GOVERNMENT 

1037-DC-00000022 
Canadian/Scottish/American. Anyway, Chris and I had Monday alone in the = 

city because it was a holiday. We went shoppping, had lunch and saw My = 

Best Friend’s Wedding. It was a thrill to go to the movies and see a = 

current-ish US movie. I really miss going to the movies as part of a = 

social life. In the US when you don’t feel like having a big night you = 

can just have dinner and go to a movie and at least you’re out of = 

thehouse, but here its expensive and the movies .are crap generally so if = 

glsyrwt o be mellow Its renbng a movre and eatrng in which gets = 

Whoa, I have to go to work! Write back and thanks for the FWs. What = 

did you pick for the ‘psychological test’? love, Cat 

1037~DC-oooooo23 

Page 2 
mlewinsk (Working Offline) 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , OSD/PA 

To: elise 

Subject: Hi honey 

Date: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 2: 17PM 

Priority: High 

Hi, UiseHow are you? How’s the family? 

It was sb great to see you last month. I am in the process of looking for a position in NY. I have been 

offered something at the UN, but I’m not reallly that interested in staying in the government. I have afaw 

leads in the private sector, so we’ll see what happens. I hoping to be up there by January (that may be 

too hopeful)!!! 

I am off to the West coast for Thanksgiving and then on to Europe for a work trip. 

sometime mid-December, and I hope we can get together then. 

i hope to pop up to NY 

Take care, and keep in touch. 

hugs n’ kisses 

Monica 

PS I’m dying to hear about how your “date” company is working. Meet mr. right yet???? 

Page 1 
3457 

5:15 PM Principals meeting on Iraq, White House 

7:00 .PM Mike Parker 2445 RHOB (225-5865 Pat Holland) 

OVERNIGHT WATERGATE 

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 31, 1997 

(HALLOWEEN) 

7:30 AM 

8:30 AM Ben Gilman 2449 RHOB (225-3776 Ellen) 

9:oo AM Xavier Becerra 1119 LHOB (225-6235 Lisa) 

9:30 AM Nita Lowey 2421 RHOB (225-6506 Randy Stokes) 

lo:oo AM Bill Hefner 2470 RHOB (225-3715 Ellen) 

10:30 AM Ike Skelton 2227 RHOB (225-2876 Laura) 

11:15 AM Bob Clement 2229 RHOB (225-4311 Jana) 

11:15 AM Ed Pastor 2465 RHOB (Laura 225-4065) Please 

change to noon if Livingston cancels 

11:30 AM Tom DeLay H-107 Capitol (Pam 225-0197) 

12:00 PM Rod Grams 

12:30 AM Bob Matsui 2308 RHOB (225-7163 Shirley) 

1:00 PM Speaking Engagement - Earthkind, National 

Press Club (Luncheon begins at Noon) 

2:00 PM 

3:00 PM 

Depart Washington 

Arrive New York 

3:30 PM 

4:00 PM 

6:40 PM 

Meeting of the P-5 re Iraq, UN Room C-209 

Security Council 

Interview - CNN, 461 Eigth Avenue, 20th 

Floor (Contact 714-7820) 

828-DC-oOOOOO23 
8:00 AM 

9:oo AM 

9:30 AM 

10:30 AM 

2:00 PM 

2:30 PM 

3:30 PM 

4:30 PM 

8:00 PM 

9:45 PM 

3458 

TUESDAY, JANUARY 6, 1998 

Breakfast with Vernon Jordan, Waldorf 

Astoria Towers (Jordan at St. Regis 

Hotel - _ 

General staff meeting 

Briefing 

Sec&ty Council consultations 

Meeting with Susan Kinsley, USUN 

Drop by -- students from Stetson 

University, USUN, 12th Floor 

Meeting with USYG Bernard Miyet 

accompanied by Ambassador Soderberg, UN, 

3727-B 

Meeting with UNSCOM Executive Director 

Richard Butler, USUN 

Dinner hosted by former Secretary of 

State Henry Kissinqer IHO Ambassador and 

Depart via Amtrak train number 177 

828-DC-oOOOOO24 
3459 

828~DC-oOOOOO25 
0 B 

3460 

TO: 

FROM: 

SUBJECT: 

Ambassador Richardson 

Mona Sutphen 

Tidbits 

1. Ollie Olivas: I spoke to Laurie Shestack about the call she 

received from Michael Olivas. She said she told Olivas you were 

out of the country and asked whether the information about his 

er's death should be passed to you immediately. Olivas said 

She also said she mentioned it to Ben on Monday or Tuesday 

9 or 12/30) and that he asked her to write it down -- hence 

1 she sent on Friday l/2 (after the New Year's 

When I asked her why she delayed in passing the 

information, she commented that there was no sense of urgency on 

part and that she sent it to Ben immediately upon her 

return after the holiday. 

Monica Lewinsky: She has declined the position in the hopes 

of going private sector (e.g. Burston-Marsteller or the like). 

She thanked you again for giving her the option to come to USUN. 

She'd like to call sometime this week to thank you in person. Do 

you want her to call or should I her to send you a note? 

828-DC-OOOOOO17 
3461 

Martindale, Lynn 

________~__ --_.._ 

From: Logsdon, Wayne 

To: Martindale, Lynn 

Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position 

Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:44AM 

You know what I know. wkl 

-----Original Message----- 

From: Martindale, Lynn 

Sent: Monday, January 

To: Logsdon, Wayne 

05, 1998 9:23 AM 

Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position 

So now, who’s on first???? 

Im 

____.._____ 

From: Logsdon, Wayne 

To: Burleigh, Peter 

Cc: Martindale, Lynn 

Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position 

Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:43AM 

Peter, 

Thanks for the heads-up. I had initiated the cancellation already since he wanted it done. We look bad 

waffling on these issues. We need a clearer guidance on the process involving such issues under Amb 

Richardson. Tks. wkl 

-----Original Message----- 

From: Burleigh, Peter 

Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:27 AM 

To: Logsdon, Wayne 

Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position 

WKL - I spoke about this issue with Rebecca Cooper on Friday. She is going to reclama with Richardson 

today (Mom, since she says he had approved the switch and she still wants it done. Stay tuned. (And 

don’t cancel the personnel action yet), APB 

From: Logsdon, Wayne 

To: Martindale, Lynn; Frazier, Tracy L; Fairman, Deborah J 

Cc: Garvin, Emma; Burleigh, Peter 

Subject: USUN/W secretarial position 

Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 3:21PM 

Lynn/Tracy, 

I have just been instructed by Ambassador Richardson personally not/not to change the USUNNV 

secretarial position to Foreign Service. I know that the paperwork has gone through already and that we 

are scouring the landscape for someone in the FS to fill the slot. I explained that Ms. Cooper asked us to 

do this and do it quickly. However, he is adamant about keeping it a schedule C-type position. 

I apologize for the seeming lack of coordination on this issue. I will take the matter up with Rebecca 

Cooper personally if you could reverse our previous action and bring it back to a schedule C. 

Thanks loads for your help and understanding. wkl 

82%DC-O0000018 

Page 1 
3462 

Martindale, Lynn 

From: Logsdon, Wayne 

To: Martindale, Lynn 

cc: Burleigh, Peter 

Subject: Monica Lewinski 

Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 3:36PM 

Lynn, 

If this name pops up on your screen, it is one the Ambassador has in mind of bringing on-board as a 

secretary I believe. More to come as I know it. wkl 

828-DC-00000019 

Page 1 
II 

‘aim Beach/Orlando 

21 22 23 24 

28 29 30 31 

15 16 17 18 19 20 21 

22 23 24 25 26 27 28 

;:30 PM UWashington 

Times 

!:30 PM PC 

1:OO PM RfAmb. Carolyn 

Curie1 

January 1,998 

I2 

‘aim Beach/Orlando 

19 

holiday-Martin Luther 

King 

1:OO PM D/Congressman 

Lee Hamilton 

26 

itlanta - WAC Carter 

event 

, 

8 

8 

8 

:00 AM B/Vernon Jordan 

:00 PM D/IHO Frank 

Wisner 

13 

:30 PM PC 

:30 PM SElOps Center 

:30 PM D/Tony Podesta 

l0 

:00 AM B/David Dreier 

:30 PM (T) PC 

:00 PM SE/Women’s 

Foreign Policy Group 

:00 PM SE/National 

Women Democratic 

Club 

:00 PM D/Jim and Emily 

Scheuer 

!7 

:00 AM B/Japan PR 

Owada 

:30 PM (T) PC 

:30 PM R/Diplomatic 

corps 

:00 PM State of the 

Union Address 

7:30 AM BIWH 

9:00 AM Brookings Sr 

Seminar 

8:00 PM D/Moroccan PR 

14 

7130 AM BIWH 

4: 15 PM SEiNick News 

759 PM D/Drop by-IHO 

Secy Albright 

8:00 PM D/Cooney & 

Peterson 

7:;O AM (T) B/WH 

1: 15 PM L/Nancy 

Soderberg 

8:00 PM D/Leonard 

Lauder 

28 

7:30 AM (T) B/WH 

8:00 PM D/Steinberg 

1 

New Year’s Day 

8 

I : 15 PM WMaruice 

Templesman 

I5 

1: 15 PM L/JCS Sheltol 

22 

1:OO PM SE/Luncheon 

UNANSA 

1:30 PM SE-Fund for 

Peace 

8:00 PM D/Holbrooke 

29 

5:00 PM Depart for Zu 

828-DC-00000016 

9 

8:30 AM Secretary’s 

Retreat 

1l:OO AM SE/McLaughlin 

l-on-l 

5:OO PM SE/Chris 

Matthews 

16 

5:OO PM SE/Harvard, Ken. 

nedy School 

7:30 PM D/Alan Simpson 

;:O PM (T) PC 

%:OO PM Theatre-Lion 

King 

30 

r:50 AM Arrive Zurich 

IO -- 

‘aim Beach/Orlando 

17 

:00 PM SE/U. of New 

Haven w 

:30 PM SE/World Affairs, 

Hartford 

______ 

?4 

II 

E-Dams conference 
3464 

March 20,1997 

TO: Ambassador Richardson and Mrs. Richardson 

FROM: PROTOCOL - Millie Harmon Meyers 

THROUGH: EXECUTIVE - Stu Symington 

SUBJECT: DINNER IHO The Secretary General of the UN and Mrs. ANNAN 

Wednesday, April 23,1997,8:00PM WAT#42A 

Permanent Representatives and Senior UN Officials are to be suggested by 

POLITICAL - Cameron HUME 

ENTERTAINMENT/ARTS 

Oprah WINFREY and Michael STEDMAN 

Jesse NORMAN/ alternative: Kathleen Battle - 

Isaac STERN 

Bette MIDLER -involved in UNEP - 

Actress 

Olivia NEWTON-JOHN - involved in UNEP + 

Actress 

Kathleen TURNER M 

Actress 

Meryl STREEP - 

Actress 

828-DC-00000026 
3465 

Judith JAMISON 

Alvin Aliley Dance Co. 

Susan SARANDON ,- 

Actress 

Michael DOUGLAS _ 

Actor -1 

Paul NEWMAN & Joanne WOODWARD 

-- 

Wendy WASSERSTEIN 

Playwright 

Liam & Nathasha NEESON - 

Actor/ Actress 

Manny PATAm 

Actor 

Richard AVADON 

Nora EPHRON & Nick PIGELLI 

828-DC-C)OOOOO27 
3466 

PUBLIC AFFAIRS 

,’ 

/ 

-’ Arthur and Alexander SCHLESINGER 

i/ John WHITEHEAD 

1 UNA~USA 

‘William vanden HEUVEL 

Allen and Company - 

J 

\ i-6; GELB \ 

r ;’ \ Council on Foreign Relations 

i, Robert CARROW 

Author, President Johnson -- 

! 1 

/ 

i Richard REEVES _-_ 

L’ Author, President Kennedy 

\ i -Doris Kearns Goodwin 

Author, Presidental Historian 

\ Caroline KENNEDY & Ed SCHLOSSBERG -- 

1 / 

/Geraldine FERRARO and John ZUCCOTTI -e-illlc; 

P anne ASHE 

Former Public Delegate and widow of Arthur Ashe 

Henry KISSINGER 

Cyrus VANCE - 

I Da&d ROCKEFELLER - 

I Nancy RUBlN 

828-DC-00000028 

3 
3467 

MEDIA/PUBLISHING 

Tom BROKAW 

alternative: Dan Rather, Peter Jennings 

I 

Artrhur SULTZBERGER, jr. 

alternative: Jack Rosenthal, Joe 

5 

?z$m@!har la y ne Hunter-Gault 

Gloria STEINEM 

Ellen LEVINf?_ 

Good House-keeping 

1 David WESTIN 

ABCNe&’ 

I Tina BROWN/Harold EVANS _ 

New Yorker/Random House. 

. 

I Graydon CARTER 

Vanity Fair 

Sy NEWHOUSE 

Conde Nast 

I Katherine GRAHAM 

Washington Post 

828~DC-OOOOOO29 

4 
3468 

BUSINESS/FINANCE T 

Felix ROHATYN 

Robert DENHAM 

’ CEO, President Salomon, Inc. 

Ted and Jane TURNER 

Sanford WEILL 

Travelers Inc. 

7) 

G 

,/ 1 George SOROS 

Soros Foundation 

Pete PETERSON and Joan Ganz COONEY +, 

Blackstone Group 

1 

Vernon JORDON-. 

Akin, Gump and Strauss 

fi 

6-‘e” ’ Ez:nBEz > and Barlet 

ickey KANTOR 

alternative: John Mack, Morgan-Stanley 

I David PARSONS 

Time-Warner - 

1 Larry TISH 

Lionel PI&US 

--B 

Warburg Pingus 

7 James WOLFENSO 

! World Bank 

i.; 

‘. i 

\ 

828-DC-00000030 
3469 

DonnaKAFXN - 

George STEPHANOPOULOS 

Columbia Univeristy 

Leon BOTSTEIN 

Bard College 

Vartan GORGORIAN 

soon to be President of Camagie Foundation 

Peter GOLDMARK ’ 

w 

Retiring President of Rockefeller Foundation 

American Museum of Natural History 

hair, Musuem of Modem Art 

828-DC-O0000031 

6 
3470 

David WEST&, ABC NEWS 

Tina BROWN/ Harold EVANS, New Y&k&/ Random House 

Graydon CARTER, Vanity Fair 

Sy NEWHOUSE, Conde NAST 

Katherine GRAHM Washington P 

Arthur and Alexander SCHLESIN 

6 John WHITEHEAD 

0 Les GELB,ec ild * ‘~cIfi(‘j 1 

Dorris KEARNS GOODWIN 

e Caroline KENNEDY and Ed SCHLOSSBERG 

Geraldine FERRARO and John ZUCCOTTI 

* Jeannie ASHE 

<\,[b Eli WEISSEL-Pmj<<- 

n Ted SORENSEN 

c David ROCKEFELLER 

Nancy RUBIN 

@ Judith JAMISON 

Q %KIII SARANDON 

4ichaeI DOUGLAS 

+ Paul NEWMAN 

- Wendy WbsERSTEIN 

&i.m~ESON ’ 

6 Maxiny PAT9 

Richard AVADON 

Larry TISH 

Jesse NORMAN 

I.SZSC STERN 

(2 12) 903-6600 

8 Bette MIDI;‘ER 

Olivia NEWTON JOHN 

._R 

Meryl STREEP *.. * _ -6 

Leslie STAHL 
2’ 

LICHTENSTEIN 

reducer, Brooklyn Academy and Music 

Mr. Paul KELLOGG and Mr. Raymond HAN 

General and Artistic Director, NYC Opera 

The New York State Theater 

(ANNAN LIST) 

Mr. James C. GOODALE and Mrs. Toni K. GOODALE (ANNAN LIST) 

Debevoise and Plimpton 

875 Third Avenue 

Mr. Gilbert E. KAPLAN and Mrs. Lena KAPLAN (ANNAN LIST) 

Chairman, The Kaplan Foundations 

Happy ROCKEFELLER (9 14) 63 l-l 03 1 (ANNAN LIST) 

Dr. Donald and Isabel STEWARD (ANNAN LIST) 

President, the College Board 

Charlaye HUNTER-GUALT (ANNAN LIST) 

WNET - Channel 13 

(703) 998-2800x2893, Donna 828-DC-00000033 

Vernon JORDON, Akin Gump and Strauss, 887-4000 

SULTZBERGER, Jr. 556-l 234 yvb 1 d@ c 

Ed BRADLEY 975-88551757-6975 
3472 

To invite Dending on available sDace 

T.H. Floyd FLAKE (D-6th) 

(202) 225-3461 

T.H. Ed TOWNS (D-10th) 

(202) 225-5936 

T.H. Charles RANGEL (D- 15th) 

(202) 225-4365 

T.H. Major OWENS (D-l lth) 

(202) 225-623 1 

Rodman ROCKEFELLER 

UNITED NATIONS 

Ibrahim FALL 

Asst. Sec. for Pol. Affairs 

Hedi ANNAEU 

Assist. Sec’t General for Peace Keeping 

USUN 

Warren FORREST 

/ 

828-DC-oOOOOO34 

12 
3473 

Dinner hosted the Representative of the United States of America to the United Nations 

and Mrs. Richardson 

In honor of the Secretary General of the United Nations 

4/l/97 as’ 

Acceptance&& e 

Ambassador Richardson 

Mrs. Richardson 

Secretary General Annan 

Mrs. Annan 

ACCEPTANCES 

Susan BERESFORD 

The Ford Foundation 

Tom BROKAW 

NBC News 

Meredith BROKAW 

Ellen FUTTER 

President, American Museum of Natural History 

Mr. John SHUTKIN 

Assoc. General Counsel; KPMG Peat Marwick LLP 

Mrs. Agnes GUND 

Chair, Museum of Modem Art 

Mr. GUND 

Ambassador William vanden HEUVEL 

Allen and Company 

Mrs. Melinda vanden HEUVEL 

Author 

Peter GOLDMARK 

President, The Rockefeller Foundation 

Ms. Aliette GOLDMARK 

Steve GREENBERG 

Classic Sports TV 

Myma Greenberg 

82%DC-00000035 

3475 

Dinner hosted by Ambassador Bill Richardson 

In honor of Bryant Gumbel and African hiember States to the United Nations 

Wednesday, April 2,1997 8:00 PM WAT #42A 

Amb. Richardson 

Mr. Gumbel 

Mrs. Richardson 

Acceptances: 48 

412197 4:30 PM 

ACCEPTANCES 

PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVES 

CAMEROON 

Minister Jean-Marc MPAY 

COMOROS 

Minister Mohamed Aboud MAHMOUD 

Cliarge 

COTJZ D’IVOIRE 

Mr. Largaton OUATTARA 

GABON 

H.E. Mr. Denis DANGUE REWAKA 

GAMBIA 

H.E. Mr. Momodou Kebba JALLOW 

Permanent Representative 

828-DC-OOOOOO37 
3476 

GUINEA 

H.E. Mrs. Mahawa Bangoura CAMAR4 

GUTNEA BISSAU 

H.E. Mr. Alfiedo Lopes CABRAL 

Permanent Representative 

LESOTHO 

H.E. Mr. Percy Metsing MANGOAELA 

Permanent Representative 

LIBERIA 

H.E. Mr. William BULL 

Permanent Representative 

MAURITIUS 

H.E. Mr. Taye Wah Michel WAN CHAT KWONG 

Permanent Representative 

MOROCCO 

H.E. Mr. Ahmed SNOUSSI 

Permanent Representative 

MOZAMBIQUE 

H-E. Mr. Carlos DOS SANTOS 

Permanent Representative 

- 

NIGERIA 

H.E. Prof. Ibrahim A. GAMBARI 

Permanent Representative 

/- 

2 
3477 

NIGER 

HE. Mr. Joseph DIATTA 

Permanent Representative 

SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE 

Mr. Domingos August0 FERREIRA 

Charge 

SIERRA LEONE 

H.E. Mr. James O.C. JONAH 

Permanent Representative 

_ 

SOMALIA 

Ms. Fatun Mohamed HASSAN 

Charge, Second Counsellor 

SWAZILAND 

Mr. Moses Mathendele DLAMINI 

Permanent Re resentative d 

TANZANIA 

H.E. Mr. Daudi Ngelautwa MWAKAWAGO 

Permanent Representative 

TUNISIA 

H.E. Mr. Slaheddine ABDELLAH 

Permanent Representative 

UGANDA 

H.E. Prof. Matia Mulumba SEMAKULA KIWANUKA 
I 

3478 

ZAIRE 

Mr. Khabouji N’Zaji LUKABU 

UNITED NATIONS 

Ibrahim FALL 

Assistant Secretary General for Political Affairs 

Hedi ANNABl 

Assistant Secretary Genera! for Peacekeeping 

Gus SPETH 

UNDP 

(2 12) 906-579 1 Tony 

Mr. Diallo 

UNDP 

Carol BELLAMY 

OTHER GUESTS 

Ambassador Marshall McCALLIE 

USG Lead for the .tica Crisis Response Initiative 

Alberta ARTHURS 

Andrew ATHY 

2540 M&x. Avenue 

Washinnton, DC 20008 

828-DC-OOOOOO40 

David DINKINS 

4 
3479 

H. Carl MCCALL 

Office of the StateComptroller 

Nadine HACK 

Jerry DUNFFEY 

870 United Nations Plaza 

New York, New York 10018 

\ 

Andrew HEYWARD 

President, CBS News 

Matt LAUER 

NBC This Morning 

John STACKS 

Exec. Editor, T$ne Magazine 

Time Life Building 

127 1 Avenue of the Americas 828-DC-OOOOOO41 
3480 

New York, New York 10020 

Maurice TEMPELSMAN 

Leon Tempelsman and Son 

Angela E. VALLOT 

Arent Fox 

USU-N 

Ambassador INDERFURTH 

Mr. HUME 

Calvin MITCHELL 

Robin MEYER 

Laurie SHESTACK 

TO HEAR FROM 

CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC 

H.E. 

6 
3481 

(2 12) 689-9693 

CHAD 

H.E. Mr. Ahmat MAHAMAT SALEH 

Permanent Representative 

828~DC-CK)OOOO43 
3482 

REGRETS 

ALGERIA 

H.E. Mr. Abdallah B&U1 

Permanent Representative 

ANGOLA 

H.E. Mr. Afonso VAN DUNEM “Mbinda” 

Permanent Remesentative 

BENIN 

H-E. Mr. Fassassi A. YACOUBOU 

Permanent Representative 

RWANDA 

H.E. Mr. Gideon KAYINAMURA 

Permanent Representative 

BOTSWANA 

H.E. Mr. Legwaila Joseph LEGWAILA 

Permanent Representative 

BURUNDI 

H.E. Mr.Terence NSANZE 

Permanent Representative 

Y . - 

BURKINA FASO 

H-E. Mr. Gaetan Rimwanguiya OUEDRAOGO 

Permanent Representative 

*- . 

CAPE VERDE 

H.E. Mr. Jose Luis Barbosa LEA0 MONTEIRO 

Permanent Representative 

8 
3483 

CONGO 

H.E. Mr. Daniel ABIBI 

DJIBOUTI 

H-E. Mr. Roble OLHAYE 

EGYPT 

H.E. Dr. Nabil A. ELAR4BY 

Permanent Representative 

ETHIOPIA 

H.E. Dr. Duri MOHAMMED 

Permanent Representative 

GHANA 

H.E. Mr. Jocob Bohve WILMOT 

KENYA 

H.E. Mr. Njuguna M. MAHUGU 

MADAGASCAR 

H.E. Mr. Jean Pierre RAVELOMANANTSOA RATSIMIHAH 

Permanent Representative 

1MALAWl 

H.E. Prof David RUBADIRI 

MAURITANIA 

H.E. Mr. Ahmed OULD SID’ AHMED 

Permanent Representative 

828~DC-oooooo45 
3484 

(2 12) 986-7963 

ERITREA 

H.E. Mr. Amdemicael KAHSAl 

MALI 

H.E. Mr. Moctar OUANE 

NAMIBIA 

H.E. Mr. Martin ANDJABA 

Permanent Representative 

SEYCHELLES 

H.E. Mr. Claude MOREL 

Ambassador 

SENEGAL 

H.E. Mr. Ibra Deguene KA 

SOUTH AFRICA 

H.E. Mr. Khiphusize J. JELE 

TOGO 

H.E. Mr. Roland KPOTSRA 

Permanent Remescntative 

ZAMBIA 

H.E. Mr. Peter Lesa KASANDA 

828~DC-oooooo46 

10 
3485 

ZIMBABWE 

H.E. Mr. Machivenyika Tobias MAPLR%_KGA 

EQUATORIAL GUlNEA 

H.E. Mr. Pastor MICHA ONDO BILE 

Permanent Reoresentative 

OTHER GUESTS 

C. Payne LUCAS 

President. AFRICARE 

Tiny ROWLAND 

Ms. Martha STEWART 

R GI JESTS 

Peter LUND 

President. CEO CBS 

5 1 West 52nd Street 

New York, New York 10019 

Alec BALDWIN 

828-DC-oooooo47 
3486 

Lisa Kaste*e_ 

Sidney POITIER 

Actor 

Paul SIMON 

(2 12) 685-4300 

Bill KELLER 

The New York Times 

.W 

Tina ROSENBERG 

The New York Times 

Joseph LELWELD 

Exec. Editor, The New York Ties 

Charlayne HUNTER GAULT 

Maynard PARKER 

Colin CAMPBELL 

President, Rockefeller Brothers Fund 

Jim HOGE 

President, Foreign Affairs Magazine 

k 

Vernon JORDON 

Akin Gum and Strauss i&L- Gail 

828-DCM1oooo48 

12 
Aryeh NJZIR 

KarI MEYER 

Mom MCLEAN 1 

w Institute 

3487 

13 
3488 

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17L97 12117197 

4,s P 

M 

/ tiurs Alberta 

Asenkenye-0 Ms. UNDHA 

Ashe Jeanne 

&--&_ /-)? z- flu’ (- 

\ 1 I 

Aubry The Hon. Albert State Assembly 

Avant Mr. & Mrs. Clarence 

Baali Amb. Abdallah PR Algeria 

zzk.Lr; &;,&,q I-5 

Bakewell Mr. & Mrs. Danny J. Brotherhood Crusade 

Baldwin IAlec 

Bamba IAmb. Youssoufou PR Cote d’Ivoire 

I I 

Baradei /Dr. Mohammed El IIAEA 

Basinger Kim 

Bea, Jr. IThe Hon. Samuel /State Assembly ,A 

Beals 

Belafonte 

IGreg 

Mr. & Mrs. Harry 

Newsweek 

formerly UNICEF 

I I , \ I 

[Bellamy ICarol [UNICEF I 

IBeresford (Susan IFord Fdtn. 

/F erman (Herbert * 

Y 4Berrocal-Soto [Fernando 

@&-teling Jan 

Blaylock Mr. & Mrs. Ronald 

City Hall 

PR Costa Rica 

DPR Netherlands 

Blaylock & Partners 

Bloomberg Michael 

363rt Carroll 

Bogojavlensk Kristina 

Booker ISalih * 

Bloomberg Radio 

Tiffany & Co. 

/Council Foreign Rltns. 

/Booker /Council on Foreign Relatio 1 

Borges 

Boyland 

Bradley 

Brown 

Brown 

LBf&vn 

Bull 

Mr. Francisco & Guest Managing Director/ PF 4 

The Hon. William F. State Assembly 

Mr. Ed CBS 

Mr. Roscoe CUNY Grad Center 

Esmeralda 

David W. Chase Manhattan A 

Amb. William PR Liberia ~~~-Dc-ooooo~~ 

A 
3489 

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12117197 

Last name 1 First name Affiliation response 

Burkle Mr. & Mrs. Ronald * IYucaipa Co. 

Burrows Virmie 

Bustamante Mr. John H. & Guest 

,CZrmira Amb. Mahawa Bangour PR Guinea 

&mpbell Rev. Joan Brown Nat’1 Council of Churches 

Carroll Rosemary A 

Chenault Kenneth & Mrs. AMEX R 

/Clanham (Mr. Andrew (Amnesty International 1 

ICGk 

,&ke 

Comror 

lThe.Hon. Barbara M. (State Assembly 

The Hon. Una 

The Hon. Martin 

I 

City Council - 

R 

ICook IThe Hon. Vivian /State Assembly 

Cooper NPR 

Cos$y Mr. & Mrs. William 

&&ch, Esq. Jamir 

cox Mr. & Mrs.Maurice * Pensi-Cola K 

Mr. & Mrs. Maurice IPepsi-Cola Co. 

Crew 

.K&ette 

Davenport 

,&35vis 

(Chancellor Rudy 

Barbara 

Mr. & Mrs. Chester 

Mr. Kevin & Guest 

/Board of Ed 

NY Times 

Envirotest Systems 

(May Davis group 

ID avis (The Hon. Gloria /State Assembly 

&&unmet IAmb. Alain (PR F rance 

Derryck 

Desai 

&&hazer 

Diatta 

Vivian 

Nitin 

Mac 

(Amb. Joseph * 

African American Inst. R 

UN-DPCSD A 

National Summit on Africa 

PR Niger 

IDinkins /Hon. & Mrs. David /Maybe I 

Dj abir 

Dlamini 

Dodson 

Amb. Ahrned PR Comoros 

Amb. Moses Mathendel PR Swaziland 

Howard Schomberg Center 

tl%lev (Mr. & Mrs. Harold 

d%i Santos (Amb. Carlos IPR Mozambique 

Duke 

Dulany 

Dunham 

Robin 

Peggy 

Mr. & Mrs. Lee 

Population Action Int’l 

Synergos Inst. R 

TCB Management Corp. 

IEdelman Mr. & Mrs. Martin 1 I I 

1Elarabv IAmb. Nabil A. IPR Ef-cmt I I 

Erwa 

Eve 

Amb. Elfatih Mohamed PR Sudan 

The Hon. Arthur 0. State Assembly 

828DC-O0000051 
3490 

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 

Last name 1 First name 

Fall (Ibrahima 

Farrell Jr. The Hon. Herman D. 

t l&ill0 Ms. Linda 

FaY Ms. Toni & Guest 

Ferguson Mr. Joel & Guest 

Affiliation 

State Assembly 

NBC 

Time-Warner Inc. 

WLAJ-TV 

response 

A 

IFemandez IAmb. Antonio Deinde (PR Central African Renubli/R 

IFerrari /Mr. & Mrs. Frank IPro Ventures Inc. 

Ferreira Mr. Domingos Augosto Charge, Sao Tome & princi 

Fields The Hon. C. Virginia City Council 

Flake The Hon Rev. Floyd H. /Former Mem. of Congress R 

Fletcher 

Flores 

Alphonse Jr. & guest Fletcher Asset Managemen RR 

Joanne NYU 

Forbes 

Foster 

Mr. & Mrs. George L. 

The Hon. Rev. Wendell State Assembly 

Fowler 

Friedman 

IAmb. Roberty R. 

(Josh 

PR Canada 

Newsdav 

R 

A 

&3ci 

,&mbari 

Gates 

Gatling 

Gelb 

, M 

Amb. Francesco Paolo PR Italy A 

Amb. Ibrahim A. PR. Nigeria 

Prof. Henry Louis “Skip Harvard U. R 

Mr. & Mrs. Luther Pres. 100 Black Men 

Leslie Council on Foreign Relatio R 

Gourevitch Philip 

Grass0 Mr. & Mrs. Richard NYSE 

Graves 

Green 

Green 

Greene 

Mr. & Mrs. Earl G. 

Mr. & Mrs. Ernest 

The Hon. Roger L. 

The Hon. Aurelia 

Black Enterprise 

Lehman Bros. 

State Assembly A 

[State Assembly R 

12117197 

82%DC-oooooo52 
3491 

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12/17/97 

Last name 1 First name Affiliation response 

IGriffith /The Hon. Edward /State Assembly 

[Gumble (Mr. Brvant 

1 

tJ&hani 

,&ck 

.,&id 

Hoge 

es 

. 

Amb. Ali 

Nadine 

Jeff * 

Jim 

Joan 

PR Tunisia 

A 

1199 Union 

Foreign Affairs R 

The Hunger Project A 

1Mr. Atoki /Charge Dem Rep. of Cong I 

II saacson 

[Jackson 

/Walter * 

l~r. George & Guest 

(Time Man. 

IMotown Records 

I I I 

IMiss Santita & Guest 1 

es 

I 

[Herbert 

I I 

IJamison 1 Judith (Alvin Ailey Dance Co. 

[Jele [Amb. Khipusizi Josiah IPR South Africa 

Jerry Dunfey 

Jessen-Peters ‘Soren 

Johnson Mr. & Mrs. Tom 

UNHCR R 

CNN 

1 Johnson 

IJohnson 

Jonah 

Jones 

Jones 

Jones 

I Jordan 

Mr. & Mrs. John H. 

Mr. & Mrs. Roy 

Amb. James O.C. 

Gerald 

IEl aine R. 

/Thomas 

[Fortune Mag. 

/Johnson Publishing Co. I 

I 

PR Sierra Leone 

Am. Red Cross 

NAACP, Legal Defense Fu A 

(Travelers Gr. 

(Mr. Vernon I I 

&&ph 

Joseph 

Judy 

IEvelyn ** 

Dorothy Davis 

Aita 

IAmb. Ibra Deguene 

VP Chase Manhattan 

African Am. 1st. 

USIA 

A 

IPR Senegal 

Karatnycky Adriane 

.&&&da Amb. Peter Lesa 

,&&munura Amb. Gideon 

Keller Bill 

Freedom House 

PR Zambia 

PR Rwanda 

NY Times 

IKing Akerele (Olubanke IUN IA 1 

[Mr. John & Guest 

Barbara, Esq. 

Amb. Roland 

/Metromedia Co. 

v~lsun - 

Kpostra 

[Celhia 

PR Togo 

IJeune Afrique IA 

&iivrov 

Leewaila 

Amb. Sergey V. 

Amb. Josenh 

PR Russian Fed. 

PR Botswana 

Reuters 

A 

828~DCXOO#o53 
3492 

RECEPTION MO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 

Last name First name I Affiliation response 

Levine Ian (Amnesty Int’l A 

,=+y Harold A 

Levy Mr.&Mrs.Alain Polygrarn Int’l RR 

Lewis Ms. Loida Nicolas & G Chair, TLC Beatrice 

&&is Mr. & Mrs. Ed Essence A 

[Reta & Carlton IArter & Hadden 

ILewis . [Byron & Guest kJniworld &OUD~C. 

Lyn/ch 

4&f adore 

I 

(Mr. & Mrs. Bill IMacAndrews & Forbes Ho1 

[Mr. Yvon IUNDHA 

IMiyet /Bernard 

I 

kJN-DPKO 

12117197 

828-~~, -oooooo54 

I I 

ammed Amb. Dr. Duri IPR Ethiopia 

Page 5 
3493 

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12/17/97 

&ast name First name Affiliation response 

A2or$eiro iArnb. Antonio Victor M IPR Portugal 

QvI&teiro IAmb. Jose Luis BarbosaIPR Cape Verde 

(Montgomery IThe Hon. Velmanette (State Senate iu 

Morel Amb. Claude 

,fioss Jennings 

MP~Y Mr. Jean Marc 

Mymze Margarita 

@wakawago Amb. Daudi N. 

Mwamba Kap Amb. Andre 

Ndamzaniye Amb. Gamaliel 

Charge, Seychelles 

A 

Charge, Cameroon 

Afiicam American Inst. A 

PR Tanzania 

PR Dem Republic of Cong 

PR Burundi 

Neier 

Neisloss 

Noble 

IAry eh 

Liz 

Gil 

Pres. Open Society Inst. 

CNN 

ABC/TV Like It Is 

horman, Jr. [The Hon. Clarence IState ‘Assembly I I 

IMargaret A. (UN-DPI 

Ohiorhenuan John 

Olhaye Arnb. Roble 

Omolo IThomas * 

UN 

PR Djibouti 

Mission of Kenya 

&r 1Dr. & Mrs. Alphonso ia 

Osborne /Tom ABC 

otllnnu [Dr. 0lar0 Int’l Peace Academy 

Ouane IAmb. Moctar PR Mali 

Ouedraogo /Amb. Gaetan Rimiwang PR Burkina Faso 

IOuld Deddac [Amb. Mahfoudh - (PR Maritania 

IOwada \Amb. Hisashi /PR Japan 

I ) 

Owens The Hon. Major R. Mem. of Congress 

Palmer Mr. & Mrs. Robert Digital Equipment Corp. 

Papkristou Alexander 

VP&k Amb. (park) Soo Gil PR Korea 

(Parker (Maynard 

I 

Richard 

The Hon. David 

/Newsweek 

Pres. Time Warner 

State Senate 

II-i 

Parsons 

Patterson 

Pauley 

I 

/Jane 

(Pearlstine INorman I I 

Pederson Eigil 

Penketh Anne 

Perovitch Adriana 

Int’l Red Cross 

AFP 

Perrill 

Perry 

Phillips 

/ 

Calibome 

The Hon. N. Nick 

Stone 

State Assembly 

NBC 

A 

828-DC-00000055 

Page 6 
3494 

RECEPTION II-IO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12117197 

IReynolds 

-_ 

IDr. Timothy I 

Rhodes 

Rhone 

Rice 

&Vera 

lRiza /Mr. Iqbal 

I 

Bill * * /Citibank A 

Ms. Sylvia & guest Elektra Entertainment 

Tracy, Esq. 

Mr. & Mrs. Dennis Local 1199 

(Sal1 

I 

1DP Affairs __ 

S&lh Amb. Abdoulie Momdo PR Gambia 

Scarborough The Hon. William State Assembly 

Schuler Margaret Women, Law & Dev’t Int. 

&6abrook The Hon. Larry bburot_ State Senate AA 

Semakula Ki Amb. Matia Mlumba PR Uganda 

,Sf&.rpton 

Shaw 

Silver 

Rev. & Mrs. Al 

Theodore 

I ~~ ~~-~~ 

ISheldon 

I I 

ISpeaker of the Assembly ( 

82%DC-00000056 

Page 7 
3495 

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 1207197 

Last name First name AffXation response 

Simon Mr. Paul & Guest 

Simon Mr.& Mrs. Amie Calvin Klein Jeanswear Co 

Singh Eleanor UN 

Sirleaf Ellen Johnson UN 

I 

IThe Hon. Ada L. 

I 

(State Senate 

,860ussi 

Soal 

‘Amb. Abmed * 

Mr. Peter 

PR Morocco 

Mission of S. Africa A 

IS omavia IArnb. Juan IPR Chile 

ISutton (Mr. & Mrs. Percy Ellis 1 

,4adesse Ytlti 

Tatum Mr. & Mrs. Bill * 

Templesman Maurice * 

/l-hOIilElS (Franklin 

Rainbow/ PUSH 

Amsterdam News 

/Ford fdtn. 

A 

I 

IA I 

Thompson Angus Iformer USUN 

Thompson William C. Pres. Board of Ed R 

Titov DmitIV UN-DPKO 

lTou.re (Duada -I 

82%DC-00000057 

Page 8 
3496 

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-l 7-97 12/17/97 

828-DC-C)OOOOO58 

Page 9 
3497 

828-DC-00000059 
828-DC-OoOoo60 
. 1 

3499 

828-DC-00000061 
3500 

828-DC-00000062 
3501 
1 LAST NAME ( FIRST NAME TITLE AFFILIATION JR 

/ PERM REP DEM REP OF CONGO 

ABELIAN CHARGE ARMENIA ...~--~- ;MOVSES 

;ABlBl ;DANIEL PERM REP CONGO _________. __~.. -. -~._-.-._. ._ ___ 

,ABRAHAM !DAN ,MR. SPllZER ___^__--- 

ABU-NIMAH ‘HASAN ,PERM REP ‘JORDAN 

~ _~____ _-_. 

ABZUG BELLA ,MS. ;NGO - WED0 

-. .___-_ 

ADAMS ALVIN ;HoN. & MRS. ‘PRESIDENT, UNA-USA _ 1 ~ .-..__ 

ADWAR ;HARP?f ;MR. 6, MRS. _ SPITZER 

,AGATHOCLEOUS INlCOS IPERM REP lCYPRUS 

.___ ..~~_. __- .-_____ 

AGUIAR ‘CRISTINA IPERM REP iDOMINICAN REPUBLIC x 

,_.-- 

AHMED iRAFEEUDDlN :UNDER SEC GEN IUN - UNDP 1 

‘Al ELLO 

IASSIST-ADMIN iUN - UNDP 

SPERM REP TAJIKISTAN 

[~~AGANY ,GAAFAR ACING PERM REP ‘SAUDI ARABIA __~.._ _ --_. .~. ~_ .__ 

‘ALTMAN 6, KAZICK~ROGER & JURATE ‘MR. & MS. iPROTOCOL “.~_.. _ 

,AMORlM ~CELSO PERM REP iBRAZIL 

r ------: 

IANDJABA MARTlN PERM REP !NAMBIA +* 

[AND0 

__.__ .._ __ 

HIROFUMI ASSIST SEC GEN UN - POPULATlON FUND 

r ---~- -- ____-. -._ 

IANNABI HEDI ASSIST SEC GEN ;UN - DPKO 

$NNAN IKOFI _. .____ SYG IlJN 

, * 

<ARIAS INOCENCIO F. PERM REP SPAIN r.,- I._ ~_ 

~ARN~W ROBERT & JOAN MR. 6, MRS. ~SP~I~ER 

jARYSTANBEKOVA ;AKMARAL PERM REP /KAZAKSTAN 

I 

ASNES ,NORMA ,MS. IHALL ~. 1___.-,. .__ .._--.__ 

r ATAEVA :AKSOLTAN lPERM REP WRKMENISTAN 

!PERM REP ‘\ 

:MR. 6, MRS. , 

?‘OUSSOUFOU ,PERM REP iCOTE D’IVOIRE 

-_ 

IBARKIN ;BEN ISP~IZER 

----.__.__e_ 

MR. 

/&ARN~~ 

--._. 

:JANn & IRWIN IMR. 6, MRS. iPROTOCOL 

..__-- _. .-. __I_ 

‘BAFfl-ELS !JOE MR. /PROTOCOL 

SBAR~ SANFORD & CONNI ,MR. 8. MRS. 

~~AuMANIS 

j~pf22ER 

--_ 

iAIVARS PERM REP llAlVlA 1 

‘BEL HADJ AMOR IMOHSEN CHAIRMAN 

JIBELLAMY 

/UN - ICSC 

CAROL EXEC~~VE DIRECT /UNICEF _.--.‘_ __ -___ , 

BEN GURION ALON 6, ANASTASI MR. 6, MRS. SPITZER / 

_.__~.‘_‘.___._.~_ 

BERGER IAMuR IMR. E; MRS. FURLEIGH I 

BERROCAL _.____ __-___ SOT0 FERNANDO ‘PERM REP COSTA RICA I 

BIALKIN KENNETH ‘MR. cli, MRS. -./SPTTZERF -.__-..~. ___ 

j3IORN LIAN HANS IPERM REP INORWAY 

-/ 

iBLANK ~ ISTEVE MR. IspmER 

~~~-DC-~IKQOO~ 

PAGE I 
RECEITON IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. I997 I o/27/97 

828-DC-65 

PAGE 2 
3504 

RECEFTION IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. I997 I o/27/97 

PERM REP MOZAMBIOUE 

:MANFRED 

828-DC-oooooo66 
3505 

RECEPTION TV HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23, I997 I O/27/97 

.__~ -_ __ 

INISTRATION 6. MA 

/DR. 1L MRS. 

,SAUL 6. ELLIE MR. & MRS. 5PfTZER 

828-DC-oOCK-@o6~ 

PAGE 4 
RECEPTION IN ~IONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. I997 I O/27/97 

MR. 6, MRS. 

828~DC-oooooo68 

PAGE 5 
3507 

RECEFI-ION IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. 1997 I O/27/97 

PERM REP 

.___ 

LEBANON 

~_. 

lPETER 6, CAROL IMR. 6, MRS. BCUN 

-_-. 

828~Dc-oooaw)69 

PAGE 6 

~-___ _ 

FIRST NAME TITLE AFFILIATION SR 

PERM REP ANDORRA -.___ -..__________ .-_.- _ _.__ _.~__,_ 

BERNARD ‘UNDER SEC GEN UN-DPKO 

.._ 
3508 

RECEPTION IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. I997 I O/27/97 

;SEYMOUR 

DENIS DANGUE 

‘MR. ‘SPllZER 

PERM REP ‘GABON 

._- 

‘BELGIUM 

828-DC-00000070 

PAGE 7 
3509 

RECEPTION IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23, IQ97 I O/27/97 

izi- -- ~JUAN 

_. 

ipERM REP 

_-LAST NAME / 

- .- -____ _- 

FIRST NAME Tl?7_E AFFIUAT~ON _._ R 

SOEEL iRONALD #RABBI 6 MRS. ‘SPRZER _._L-. --...- 

I= 

iCHILE 

-.- 

SONNENFELDT !MICHAEc& KATJA ‘MR. cf MRS. $SPi-lZER - 

~.1-----._~ _. . . _. . . ..4L RELAllONS 

r-- SPAHN ~ CONNIE 945. PROTOCOL __~~.__ .._.~ ~~ _-- 

!ZiGGiT ,Gil._LlAN :ASSlST SEC &-EN ‘UN - FmRNj 

iADMINI%RATOR UNDP 

!MR. 6. E, 

iGUS __ ..- 

iAlEX IRS. 

HON. & MRS. 

_.____- --.-. --- 

‘SPi-lZER 

.-. _____-- 

DR. AND MRS ___.~_-._--. 

_..__~ 

‘DONALD 

~_---_ 

!SlRONG jMAURlCE UNDER SEC GEN UN REFORM 

/s!izHARIPA---- ,ERNST ~~ .-/_ 

lKRl.SSY 

+ASTA 

____ 

~IBRAH~MA 

-%LYAKSANDR ‘- 

-_ 

‘PERM REP ‘AUSTRIA 

-______.-.._ 

!MS. [PROTOCOL 

SENATOR 

.AMB. P_FRM OBSE jOAU 

!PERM REP 

GkR ‘LAWRENCE CHARGE _. ~BELIZE __ 

%mLBOT LESLIE ‘MS. hiALL --. 

LE BARON I_. #MR. HAtl 

-.. 

iMANUEL ,PERM REP MEXICO 

:DANIEL P; DASSY DR. & MRS. SPrZER I 

_- _ ..__ 

‘VICTOR E. DEP. PERM OBSE iOAU_m 

F-- ORCNNER ‘JIM &jADlS DR: & MRS. ,$&ER 

‘KERSTIN :ASSIST SEC GEN -/UN -. 

IPERM REP 

!P~RM RI 

;PERM REP 

;PERM RI 

‘HON. 

-- 

:PERM RI 

- .- 

iBHUTAN 

-- 

/UKRAINE 

ZP -iECUADOR 

___ 

IGUARINI 

- __. 

IANGOLA 

VANDEN HEUV& l%%mlNA 

-. 

!MS. - EqmOR l&GO - +l-iE Nz iON” 

VARSO /JAN ~CHARGE SLOVAK REPUL _iC __ 

VEG EGA +RLOS ,VICE-CHAIRMAN $JN - ICSc: 

..- 

VELLISTE mlVIMI :&RM REP -/EST-NIA -- - 

OGELMAN iClAlR JMRS. ISP~ER 

.__ 

lVoHlDoV iALlSHER IPERM RI 

IV 

EP 

__ 

!IHOMA~ & ANITA /MR. 6. MRS. 

IHARRY IMR. 

KWON 3-AYE WAH Mh-lEL ;PERM REP 

~uZBEKISTAN _ 

i6CUN 

jSPllZER 

, 

/MAURITIUS 

/ARNOLD ‘MR. h MRS. 

[WEHBE IMIKHA~L SPERM R 

828-DC-OOiXWO71 

PAGE 8 
3510 

RECE-IP~ON IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE i 

ZBIGNIEW 

-- __I --~ ~~_I____ 

ASSIST ADMINIST UN 

----- -I__ ___--- 

PERM REP GH, 

MS. HAL 

PERM REP POL 

~&AN LOUIS PERM 

--- I___ 

&DAM 

‘HERBERT GEORGE PERM __-_ -I____._ 

$_I2 

REP --- LUZ II__.-~... - -- 

‘PERM REP BEh I_~.. -.I__~ ____ 

REP SAlI -- 

;MS. 

_~_____ 

____l___i___ HAL 

PERM REP GRE ---- -- .--- ~ 

____I______ MR. -!?!9 

ZERILLI-MARIMO !MAf$JCCIA 

--___ ,BARONESS GUA ~~- 

ZIZZA ISALVATORE 6, DEB MR. 6, MRS. 

ZUMBADO 

GUAI 

‘FERNANDO EDUAR ASSIST ADMINIST UN - 

PAGE 9 
3511 
E BY VWON JORDAN ON DEC-ER 11. 1997 

No. Time Call from Call to 

1 09:45 AM Vernon Jordan's Peter Georgescu, Young & Rubica

office, vm 

2 I I lo:39 AM Vernon Jordan's Neysmith, American Expr

office, _ 

3 lo:59 AM Vernon Jordan's Barbara Neysmith, American Expr

office, 1-b v 

4 11:12 AM Vernon Jordan's Howard Gittis, Revlon, a-b 

office, i-4 

5 11:17 AM Vernon Jordan's Ambassador Richardson, United N

office, :_F 415-4404 

6 I I 12:47 PM Vernon Jordan's 

I I 

Barbara Neysmith, American Expr

office, a_ _ 

7 12:49 PM Vernon Jordan's Peter Georgescu, Young & Rubica

office, 7-1 t 

8 12:51 PM Vernon Jordan's Howard Gittis, Revlon, 2'_i& 

office, _ 

9 01:06 PM Vernon Jordan's Barbara Neysmith, American Expr

office, 4-m _ 

10 01:07 PM Vernon Jordan's Richard Halperin, Revlon, _ 

office, i-b 
Dale lime 

02l27/19% 08 48 00 

04/04/l 9% 18 34 00 

04104/l 9% 1 e 34 29 

04/05/l 9% 17 38 00 

04/05/l 9% 17 38 24 

04/19/19%132500 

04/1911996 13 25 52 

04/19/19% 15 1400 

04/19/199615:14 35 

09/12/19%0758w 

osr12/1G60i:5s ta 

09112/19%08 1900 

09/12/l 08.1906 

i0/27/1997173400 

10/27/1997 li 34 53 

10/29/1997 12 11 00 

10&1997 1z 11.45. 

10/29/1997 13.53.,, 

1 b/l 997 13 53 23 

10/30/1997 19 17 00 

11/06/1997 15 51 00 

1 l/08/1997 15.51 a0 

11114d997 14 50.00 

11114H99714.5000 

11/19/1997 10 27.00 

11/19/1997102700 

11/20/1997104600 

111201199710~4800 

llI24G97 10 14 00 

1112411997 10 14.k 

11/26/199709 1800 

11/26/199709 18 00 

i2/22/19971431~W 

12/22/1997 15 1400 

Oi/O5/1&8 11.32.w 

Duration From Phone From Nom* To Phone To Name 

00 01 .w (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154058 UIiEXTENSlON 

00 01 .W (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415~4058 UN EXTENSION 

00 01 59 (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154058 UN EXTENSION 

00 01 00. (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415-4058 & =&sEN 

w:w.49 

~~-____-~~~ 

(703) 697-9312 LEWIN~KY, MONICA. DONOVAN, JOHN/P ~li@5_405e UN EXTENSION 

00.01 .W (703) 697-9312 LtiWIii<i; ~~i~;-~ti~~~.<oiiN/P (212) 4154058 UN EXTENSION 

00 w 20 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA. DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154056 UN EXTENSION 

~~_..___. __ ___-.._ 

w:ll .w (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY, MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154058 UN EXTENSION 

W:18,42 (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 416-4058 UN EXTENSION 

-___._ 

W:O2 00 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY, MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154050 

._._._ __._~ ~____. . 

W:O2,25 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415-m 

w:Ol 00 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154050 

- -_._ ~_ .~-~~-_-._.-.~~~~~ ..~~_ .__~ _ 

W.W.57 (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154050 

00.01 00 (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY, MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154402 WATKINS. ISABEL ~~~.___.__._ _.. 

W 01.45 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY, MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154402 WATKINS, ISABEL 

w 01’00 (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA, DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154402 WATKINS, ISABEL 

W.w:49 (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154402 WATKINS, ISABEL 

__-. _._..__.~~ _ ~~~~ 

W:Ol 00 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA, DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154402 WATKINS, ISABEL 

_._ __..._~~~ _. 

w.00 56 (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY, MONICA, DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154402 WATKINS. ISABEL 

:ST 0O.Ol.W (2fl2) 965.6355 LEWINSKY, MOtkA (212) 4154402 WATKINS. ISABEL 

ST ti.0l.W 

._ _~ 

(703) 697-9312 L&fINSKY, MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415-4058 UN EXTENSION 

W:Ol 03 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DON&AN, JOHN/P (ilii 415-4058 UN EXTENslOti 

- .-..._ - ._--- ~~_ 

iST 0o:OZ.W (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154404 RICHARDSON, WILLIAM AMBA

--___._-.~.~ ~~~~__..__ _._.___.~.~~ 

W.Ol.00 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415-44&l RICHARDSON, WILLIAM AMBA

--__ ~___ _.______ ~~~ 

Ml:03 00 (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154056 UN EXTENSION __

iST W,@lw (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKV. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154058 UN EXTENSION _I__~_~ 

0Cl:Ol:W (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154058 UN EXTENSION 

__

iST 0O.Ol.W (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415-4058 UN EXTENSION 

.__~____~~ -__. 

.ST W.07 00 (703)697-9312 LEWINSKY, MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154029 SUTPHEN. MONA _ ._.-. __~ ~~~~.. --._ __ ~~ 

W:O4W (703)697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415.4023 SUTPHEN, MONA 

__.. _ ._ _. _ __~__ __ ~~~~~ ~~ .__ 

.ST w:D4 W ,(703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415-4058 UN EXTENSION 

._~ ---. 

w03.W (703) 697-9312 LEWINSKY, MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415.4058 UN EXTEidSloN --- ~- 

- ..__~~~ .~~ 

IST wO6:W (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN. JOHN/P (212) 415.4058 UN EXTENSION 

isi ti 01:&l (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (Zli) 415.4058 UN EXTENSION 

.._~._ 

00 01, :w FINERMAN, D WSUTPHEN. MONA 

I, 

; GOVERNMENT 

a 

EXHIBIT 

!A@4 -/I 

2?dQf fl& 
3514 

Atlantic TEMPO MDR for 7036979312 per 

/ oRIG_TN DEST_TN DURATION Start 

- 6979312 

7tiJ6979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

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7036979312 

7036979312 

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7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

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7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

- 6979312 

i ,,6979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

7036979312 

'036979312 

7 6979312 

6979312 

iO36979312 

'036979312 

'age: 5 

DTS-W Request dated 24 FEE 98 

date-time 

_- --___---- _----__-____-------_~--~----~-~~~~~-~ 

000:02:22 13NOV97 10:37:05 

000:01:40 13NOV97 11:06:57 

000:00:03 13NOV97 11:20:19 

000:03:20 13NOV97 11:25:46 

000:00:09 13NOV97 11:29:43 

000:00:17 13NOV97 11:50:49 

000:28:20 13NOV97 11:59:25 

000:21:52 13NOV97 12:25:17 

0OO:OO:lO 13NOV97 13:15:50 

000:00:23 13NOV97 13:36:43 

000:00:14 13NOV97 14:25:19 

000:02:30 13NOV97 14:26:56 

000:00:42 13NOV97 14:32:00 

000:00:08 13NOV97 14:37:31 

000:00:18 13NOV97 14:42:12 

000:00:44 13NOV97 14:49:37 

000:00:30 13NOV97 14:53:59 

000:02:39 13NOV97 15:04:13 

000:22:04 13NOV97 15:10:25 

000:04:17 13NOV97 16:29:31 

000:00:40 13NOV97 16:33:07 

000:00:14 13NOV97 16:34:18 

000:03:44 13NOV97 16:47:04 

000:00:11 

000:00:09 

000:00:05 

000:02:26 

000:07:04 

000:00:08 

000:05:42 

000:00:21 

000:00:50 

000:20:08 

000:00:29 

000:00:15 

000:00:05 

000:02:19 

000:00:16 

13NOV97 

13NOV97 

13NOV97 

13NOV97 

13NOV97 

13NOV97 

13NOV97 

13NOV97 

13NOV97 

14NOV97 

14NOV97 

14NOV97 

14NOV97 

14NOV97 

14NOV97 

17:22:43 

17:24:05 

17:24:32 

17:44:52 

18:23:35 

18:29:39 

18:50:34 

19:08:42 

19:47:46 

07:57:24 

08:27:55 

08:30:24 

08:42:40 

08:58:15 

09:12:24 

000:00:15 14NOV97 09:52:34 

000:00:35 14NOV97 09:53:36 

000:05:40 14NOV97 09:58:41 

000:12:01 14NOV97 10:03:29 

000:02:12 14NOV97 10:21:44 

000:02:04 14NOV97 10:23:39 

000:02:32 14NOV97 10:25:24 

000:05:34 14NOV97 10:43:37 

000:00:46 14NOV97 11:25:23 

000:00:22 14NOV97 11:26:21 000:06:45 11:27:24 833-DC-00017904 

000:00:36 14NOV97 12:06:25 

000:00:24 14NOV97 12:41:24 

000:00:22 14NOV97 12:53:47 

000:02:13 14NOV97 13:31:35 

000:00:28 14NOV97 13:57:07 

000:00:18 14NOV97 13:59:58 

000:00:50 14NOV97 14:00:45 

000:00:30 14NOV97 14:16:25 

000:00:43 14NOV97 14:22:10 

000:01:41 14NOV97 14:50:11 

0OO:OO:lO 14NOV97 15:02:44 
s*1*cuon Datai maport 

a.?..: s.wrd.y. JaWW 24. 1990 OIC - m - 0141 

tu: 1:33:24 m AmNGUrP / 

ml-c 

____---- 

12111197 12/11/97 

12/11191 

12/11/97 

12/n/97 

12/11/97 

run/93 

12/11/97 

12/11/97 

12/11/97 

10: 18 

10:X 

10:39 

10:57 

12/11/97 10:59 

12/11/97 11:12 

12:11/97 11:17 

12/11/97 11:23 

12/11/97 11x42 

12/11/97 11:55 

12/11/97 12:05 

12/U/97 12:lO 

12/n/97 12124 

12/11/97 12140 

12/n/97 x2:44 

12/11/97 12847 

12111197 12:49 

l2/11197 12:51 

12/11/97 12:56 

12/11/97 13104 

i2/11/97 13106 

:2/11/97 13r07 

12/11/97 13:36 

12/11/97 13:38 

12/11/97 14-22 

12/11/97 14:24 

12/11/97 lb:25 

12/11/97 14:29 

:2/:1/97 14:33 

12111197 15:06 

iZi11107 15:5i 

12/11/5~ 15:51 

0rOO:JO 

0103100 

0:00148 

0101106 

OxO3r42 

0100t36 

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0:00:54 

0:01t00 

OrO3:36 

0:04124 

0103r12 

o:olloo 

0102r54 

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0:09:00 

0:03:54 

0:01x06 

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0:01:00 

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oioS:54 

0:00~30 

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0x00:36 

0:00:30 

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0104106 

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0:03:06 

0:01:12 

0:00:41 

0:03:S4 

0x01:24 

0100142 

0:02:00 

0:00144 

0:\3:30 

0:00:30 

0:01:36 

0:01:06 

0:00:42 

O:Oo:4S 

0:03:30 

0x00:36 

0:01:s4 

0:02-24 

0:01:06 

0:03:00 

0:01:18 

0:00:30 

0:05:30 

4:00:36 

0:00:42 

0:01:00 

0:00:36 

0:15:00 

0:OS:ll 

0:06:06 

0:01:00 

0:04:36 

0:09:00 

0:02:24 

0:03:54 

0:00:3D 

0:03:00 

0:02:42 

0:02:36 

5261 

526l 

4260 

4260 

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4260 

4260 

5262 

4260 

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4260 

4260 

4260 

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5262 

4260 

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:2/11:97 16:14 

X.,'Xi/97 16:32 

1211119‘ 16:34 

:2/:'.,97 16:36 

12!1?/97 16:38 

12111197 l-l:21 

12/11/97 17:24 

1111;/9: OS:19 

;2/i:g97 10:11 

12/:2/57 10:14 

:2:r2/97 10:55 

:2/12/97 11:oe 

:2/12/97 11:OS 

::/12’9- 13:ot 

12/1P19: 12:lS 

:2/:2/97 12:17 

12/::/97 12:22 

12/12/S? 12:29 

12/1:/S? 12:46 

12/12/97 12:56 

121i2197 12:s9 

:2/12/97 13:2e 

12/:2/97 15:31 

1:/;2/97 16:41 

i2/'5/9~ on:17 

12115197 OS;32 

12/15/S? 00:41 

12/15/S: OS:55 

?2/15/97 OS:58 

12/15/97 09:17 

12/15/97 OS:21 

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01/30/96 FRI 1l:OZ FAX 2146914335 

- -- -. - 

- -. .-_ --. - -. 

JAb!- 2% 98 ED 13 : 39 Retail Sales 

PAGEYART INC 

FAX NO. 6196549C30 

2 w2 t 1,220 01-13-m oo:w OI-01-70 lamlrs 

LErd ULC *f. UT 

11 2 w2 c oil:,, Ol-13-w oo:oa 01-01-m 1531175 

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13 2 w2 C 03ro6 01-13-911 m:oo or-Ol-m 145117s 

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13 2w2 C on:23 Ol-to-m m;ao Ol.Ol-To 1831175 

*m,'l ,I DAa'S BIITlRAY IXU'T IT? PLEASE CALL ME AS Rx*I As 1aJ CAN. Lov 

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PLEASE CUL *o(. 

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13 2 

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PLEASE ULL )Ty AT 

13 2 w2 C au:% Ill-UT-ma m:on Ol-01-70 163117S 

PLEASE CALL *DlA SJTPWEY Al13 2 w2 c l7:eo Ol-06-w 0o:w 0141-70 lcl31175 

“A% ,u I)pDTYEP ULL Ilt AT v, lLZHtT*. 

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3 2 w2 C a¶:32 01-06-96 0o:oo 01-01-70 la3117S 

PLcASf CALL fRUS CARTER iBi_ 

13 2 w2 C 07;LO 01-06-W 0O:M 0141-70 183117S 

eLE*sE Cot6 wmf. LICnEAL IS up. 

G 2 wi c Of:11 01-06-98 oo:no 01-01-m 1531175 

PLEASE CALL 101 

13 2 992 C 08:CP Ol-0343 0a:w 01-01-70 1~31175 

ALEX IS xenc. PLEASE CALLi_ 

13 2W2 C ov:26 oi-az-p(I m:m oc-01-m i83il73 

will V A)lD CALL “E 1 YIYT TO LEAVE Smy ANO I NI “AIllIE CC. TWR CALL 

13 2 w2 C ca:sa Ol-02-w Oo:oo 01-01-m la31173 

,'"AYI‘L. U‘L It: "ME" "INGET ACMAUCE. 

13 2 w2 C 13:c2 01-01-90 oo:oo ot-01-m la3%17S 

GIVE “E A CALL. YITW IYFO RE; FLIGNl AT IICM OR LEAVE A *5G Oy PAGEI. 

13 2 c 12~00 12-30-97 m:m 01-01-m Ml31175 

CALL LSYLEY D 

1s 2 w2 

FRANK CARTER RENllED I(up CALL, 

c-v7 OO:oo ill-01-m la31175 

13 2 w2 C 0741 12-26-97 M:OO 01-01-70 l63117S 

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13 2 w2 C 07:2Q 12-27-97 0O:OO 01-01-70 1631175 

MULE ami: ,O LEAVE *olEv I” T”L LOEBT FOP ME OECAUSE I RAVE NO CASK FO(I 

A ua. PROEABLY so. WlKE 

13 2 092 C 13:17 12-Z&-P7 0o:w Ol-01-70 18311n 

- -*SE ULL m. 

13 2 992 C W:55 12-23-97 m:OO 01-01-70 lCJl175 

PLEAS5 CALL wI1. 

111 19 

2s GO 

31 16 

12 36 

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14 92 

32 4.2 

27 119 

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22 21 

33 96 
!Z&LLS MADE BY-ON JQRDM 

No, 

1 

_ 

2 

3 

12/22/97 04:59 PM 

12/22/97 jO5:03 PM Vernon Jordan's office, 

12/22/97 OS:04 PM 

Call Erom 

Vernon Jordan's office, 

Vernon Jordan's office, 

Call to 

White House operator

202-456-1414