1885. OONGRESSIONAL RECORD-·SENATE. 1243 

Mr. MILLER, of Pennsylvania. And that is right. 

Mr. ADAMS, of Illinois. I move that the Senate- amendments be 

concurred in, and I desire to say that th~ inauguration business is not 

ordinary business: I think, therefore, we should concm: in the Senate 

amendments. · Mr. FOLLETT. I desire to make this simple statement: Four years 

ago theappropriation.was made as the Honse made it, one balfpayable 

out of the funds of the District and the other half out of the Treasury 

of the- United States, as other appropriations are made for the District 

under the rule. . . And I wish to say still further that the benefit resulting from the 

large attendance of people in the ·city of- Washington on that occasion 

is more in the interest of the people here than it is in the interest of 

the Government. 

The motion of Mr. ADAl\181 of Illinois, was not agreed to. 

The amendments of the Senate were non-concurred in. ·Mr. FOLLETT moved that a committee of conference be asked on the 

disagreeing votes of the two House . , The motion was agreed to. 

The SPEAKER pro tmpore appointed as conferees on the part of the 

House Mr. FOLLETT, Mr. HUTCH.INS1 and Mr. CANNON. 

AARON GELD. 

Mr. WOLFORD, by unanimous consent, from the Committee on Ppsions, reported back favorably the bill (H. R. 4869) for the relief of Aaron 

Geld; which was referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the 

Private Calendar, and the accompanying report ordered to b~ printed. 

And then, on motion of Mr. MILLS (at 5 o'clock and 15 minutes p. m. ), the House adjourned. 

By :Mr. PUSEY: Petition of E. C. Vennumand others, of Cass County, 

Iowa, asking for an increase of widows' pensions-to the same com- mittee. . . · 

By ~1r. J. H. ROGERS: J?etitions of citizens of Hot Springs, Ark., 

and memorial of its city council, against the passage of the· R.ogers bill 

for the regulation of the Hot Springs reservation-to the Committee on the Public Lands. · 

By Jltir. TOWNSHEND: Petition of citizens of the District of Columbia, prayilig for the passage of a joint· resolution requiring the_ Balti- more and Potomac Railroad Company to keep open the draw of the long . bridge for the passage of vessels at all hours of the day and night-to 

the Committee on Rivers and Harbors. 

The following petitions for the passage of the 1\lexican war pension 

bill with Senate amendments were presented and severally referred to 

the Committee on Pensions: · · By Mr. BAGLEY: Of citizens of Sehobarie County, of Greene. County, 

and of Ulster County, New York. 

By Mr. BAYNE: Of ex-soldiers of Allegheny County, of Pittsburgh, 

and of Bakerstown, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. 

By Mr. BINGHAM: Of.honombly discharged soldiers of Philadelphia, Pa. . By Jlt!r. BOYLE: Of citizens of New Haven, Fayette County, and of 

Fayette City, Fayette County, Pennsylvania. 

By Mr. 'EVERHART: Of citizens of Oxford, Chester County, Pennsylvania. 

By Mr. GEDDE'3: Of George :M. Endley and 57 others, citizens of 

Mansfield, and of G. W. Shurtleff and 123 others, citizens of Lorain 

County, Ohio. · By Mr. HEPBURN: Of 175 citizens of Leon, Decatur County; of 

I'ETITIONS, ETC. William Butle:t; and 50 others, citizens of Quincy, Adams County, and 

The following petitions and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk, of J. B. Morrison and 50. others, citizens of Unionvill~, Appanoose 

under the rule, and, referred as tollows: County, Iowa. . By Mr. BINGH.Al\I: Resolutions of' the Philadelphia Produce Ex- By Mr. HOLMAN: Of Charles E. Burroughs and 65others, citizens of 

change, fa~oring the enactment of a national bankrupt lmv-to the Com- Ripley County; of Alexander W. Lee and 91 others, citizens of Frankmittee on the Judiciary. lin County, and of Samuel. Ward and 36 others, citizens of Ripley 

By Mr. BRECKINRIDGE: Petition of citizens of Pine Bluff, Ark., County, Indiana. . urging the passage of the Potter funding bill-to the Committee on By Mr. KLEINER: Of ex-soldiers of Reno, Ind. Ways and Means. · By :Mr. LACEY: Of William Edwins and 27 -others, of Sunfield, 

By Mr. DINGLEY:. PetitionofU. G. Shaw and others, ofBath, Me., Mich. 

for an· appropriation to remove the ledge and rocks in the Kennebec By :Mr. McCORMICK: Of 581 citizens of Lawrence County; of 50 

River at Bath-to the Committee on Rivers and Harbors. citizens of Jackson County, and ofl74 citizens of Portsmouth, Ohio. 

By Mr. ERMENTROUT: PetitionofOstheimerBrothers, for passage By Mr. PAIGE: Of D. Garman and others, of Summit County; of 

of bill proyiding for an international convention for the protection of T. L. Firestone and others, of Wayne County; of F. M. Waltmar and 

industrial pro~rty-to the. Committee on Foreign Affairs. others, of Medina County, and of George M. Patterson a:qd others, of 

Also, petition of John F. Donehower, for passage of a bill granting Cuyahoga Falls, Summit County, Ohio. • him a pension-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. By Mr. PUSEY: Of 60 cifuens of Shelby County and of 190 citiBy Mr. FERRELL: Petition o( citizens of Salem city and members zens of Harrison County, Iowa. . of the :.{>resbyterian chru-ch, on tha Mormon question-to the Commit- By Mr. RYAN: Of 2,523 citizens of the State of Kansas. 

tee on the Judiciary. . By Mr. ROWELL: Of.115 citizens of Monticello; of 41 citizens of 

By Mr. FORNEY: Memorial from the General Assembly of the State Middletown; of 146·citizens of Farmer City; ·of 47 citizens of Chenoa, 

of Alabama, asking for an increased appropriation to open the Coosa . and" of 47 citizens of Gridley, Dl. 

River-to the Committee on Rivers and Harbors. By Mr. SENEY: Of L. S. Lafferty and 128 others, citizens of HanBy Mr. GEOkGE: Petition from North Yam Hill, Oreg., asking cock County, Ohio. ·. Congress to purchase Miss Ransom's portrait of General George H. By Mr. SHIVELY: Of David Brown and 77 others, citizens of LeesThomas-to the Com.inittee on the Library. burg, Ind. ,. 

By Mr. HARDY: Memorial of Sereno D. Bonfils, ,A... McKinstrey, By Mr. H. Y. SMITH: Of 39 citizens of Lacona, and of 60 citizens 

and .others, requesting that this Forty-eighth Congress authorize the of Indianola, Warren· County, Iowa. 

Secretary of War to contract with Charles Stoughton and hi$ associates By MrJ STEPHENSON: Of Fred. Barrett, al)d 75 others, citizens of 

for theimproveme:qtofHarlem River, New York, for a sum not exceed- M:edford, Taylor Col}nty; ofW. J. Brown and 91 others,·citizensofMaing $1,295,000, and requesting that the chainnan.ofthe Committee on rion, Waupaca County, and of G. J: Jackson and 62 others, citizens of 

Rivers and Harbor will appoint a subcommittee to hear arguments Centralia, Wood Co~ty, Wisconsin: . thereon, and report to the full committee-to the Committee on Rivers By 1\i.r. E. B. TAYLOR: Of C .. P. LyQl.an and 86 others, citizens of 

and Harbors. . Trumbull County, Ohio, and of B. Herrick and 76 others, citizens of 

By Mr. H..A..RYER: Resolutions of George G. Meade Post, Grand -Perry, Lake County, Ohio. 

Army of the Republic, in fa-vor of the passage of Senate bill placing By Ur. 'THOMAS: Of 64 citizens of Massac County; of 167 citizens 

General U.S. Granton the.retired.-listwith rank and payofGeneral- of Jackson County; of64 citizens of Johnson ~unty ; of90 'citizens of 

to the Co~ttee on Military Affairs. Pulaski Co~ty, and o~2 citizens of New Burnside, Til. 

By Mr. LIBBEY: Petition of citizens of Nansemond County, Virginia, asking for the improvement of Nansemo~d River-to the Committee on Rive.rs,.and Harbors. 

By Mr. LORE: Petition of W. L. S. Murray and 44 others, citizens 

of Delaware, urging the suppression of Mormonisttl by law-to the 

Committee on the Judiciary. · 

Also, petition of J. Richards Boyle and 12 others, citizens of Delaware 

for the suppression of M:o~onism by Congressional legislation-to th~ same committee. 

By Mr. Jlt.ULLER: Petition ·of citizens of Mercer, Pa., in favor of legislation that will chec)r the e"Vil. of Monnonism-to the same committee. 

By Mr. CHARLES O'NEILL: Petition of many citizens of Philadelphia, praying Congress to enact a law which will give again to the 

aged seamen and marines, ·beneficiaries of the United States naval asylums, their pensions just as they are given to the soldiers of the national 

homes for soldiers, the said pensions being now forfeited under the law 

by these beneficiaries of the United States naval asylums.:_to the Committee on Pensions: 

SENA~. 

WEDNESDAY, .February 4, 1885_. 

Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. E. D. HUNTLEY, D. D .. 

The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair begs to ask unanimous con- sent that he may invite upon the floor of the Senate the chief justice of 

the Dominion of Canada, who is present in the gallery. Is there objection? The Chair hears no objecti~m. 

TESTIMONIALS TO ULYSSES S. G~T. · 

The PRESIDENT p ro tempore laid before the Senate the following 

message from the President of the United States; which was read, and, 

• 
• 

CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· SENATE. FEBRUARY 4, 

with the accompanying papers, referred to the Committee on the _Library, and order~d to be printed: 

To theSenale: 

I take especial pleasure in laying before Congre lhe generous offer made b:Y l'!Irs. Grant, to give to the Government, in perpetual trust, the swords a nd mil- itary (and civil) te timonials lately belonging to General Grant. A copy of the deed of trust, and ofla letter addressed to me by 1\:lr. William H. Vanderbilt, 

whi£h I transmit herewith, will explain the nature and motives of this ofter. · Appreciation of General Grant's achievement and recognition of his ju t fam have in part taken the shape ofnume•·ous mementoe and gifts, which, whilE: dear to him, possess for the nation an exceptional iutere t. These relics, of great historical value, ha,·e pas ed into the hands of another, whose con iderate action has restored the collection to 1\Irs. Grant as a.1ife·tru t, on the condition that at the death of General Grant, or soone.1· at 1\Irs. Grants option, it should become the prope1·ty of the Government, as set forth in the accompanying papers. In the exercise of the option thus ~iven her Mrs. Grant elects that the tntSt shall forthwith determine, andasks.tliat the Govemmentdesignate a suitable place of deposit and a resp(in.sible custodian for the collection. The nature of this gift and the value of the t·elic whlch tll'e generosity of a private citizen, joined to. the high seu. e of public regard which animate. ?!Ir . . Grant, have thu placed at the disposal of tbe Go\'ernment, demand full and sig- nal recognition on behalf of the nation at the hands of its l·epresentati \'es.. I therefore ask Congres.s to take suitable action tQ accept the trust and' to provide for its secure custOdy, at the same time recording the appreciative gratitude of the people of the United State.!! to the donors. . In this·connection I may pertinently advert to the pending legislation of th~ 

Senat~d House of Repre entatives looking to a national recognition of Gen- eral Grant's em,inent sen-ices. by providing the mea us for hi restoration to the Army on the retired-list. That Congress. by taking such action, will give ex- pression to the almost universal desire of the people of this nation is evident, and I earnestly urge the pa sage of au act similar to euate bill No. 2.'>-30, which' while not interfering with the cons.tit:utional prerogath·e of appointm_ent, wili enable the President in his discretion to nominate General Grant a General upon the retired-list. · CHESTER A. ART-HVR. · EXECUTIVE 1\IA..-.SIOS, February 3, 1885. 

IIOUSE BILLS llEFERRED. 

The joint resoh1tion (H. Re5. 321) providing for printing the eulogie::; 

delivered in Congress upon the late John H. Evins, late a Repre entative in the Forty-eighth Congress from the State of South Carolina, was 

read twice by it title, and referred to the Committee on Printing. 

The bill (H. R. 7163) to regulate the fonus of bills of lading and the 

duties and liabilities of ship-owners and other , was rea·d twice by its 

title,· and r~ferred to the Committee on Commerce. · . · 

PETITIO~S AXD 1\IE)IORIA.LS. 

Mr. PLUMB. I present the petition of sirndry citizens of Kan as, 

praying for .the passage of the bill heretofore introduced to open what are known as the Oklahoma lauds in the Indian Terri tory, to settlement, 

which I ask may be referred to the Oollllllittee on Indian Affairs. I hope 

now thll.t it. seems to be settlell that something ·hould be done in ref- erence to th~e l:lnds, th.e committee will be able to devise ome pla.n presently whereby they can be opened to settlement. • · 'fhe P .RESIDENT- pro tempo1·e. The petition will be referred to the 

Committee on Indian Aftairs. 

~Ir. GORl\IAN pre8ented a petition of captains, ves~el-Gwners, and 

others engaged in ·navigating the-Potomac River, pl'::tying th:tt·thedmw 

of the Long Bridge over that ri>er .be opened upon proper signals to ves- sels plying between 'Yashington and Georgetown; which •vas refened . to the Committee on Commerce. · · Ur. CULLOM presented a petition of ex-Union soldiers of Ohio~ a petition of ex-Union soldiers ofTennes~ee; a petition of ex.-Vnion sol- die~ of: Wayne County, West Virginia; a petition of ex-Union soldiers 

of Ohio; a petition of citizens of lllinois; a petition of ex-Union soldiers of California, and a petitionof.ex-Union soldiers of Illinois, praying that Congress enact a law granting one hundred and sixty acres of 

land to every honorably discharged ex:Union oldier; which were re- ferred to the Committee on Pensions. · . 

He-also 'presented t'll petition of·citizens of illinois, ~ petition of citi- zens of Iowa, and a petition. of ex.-Union . oldiers of Kansas, praying 

fo1· general legislation faTorable -to the soldiers of the late war which were referred to the Committee on Pensions. · · 

He also presented the petition of William H. McLean, of Flora, ill., 

late master of the United States war schooner James S. Chambers, praying for a pension; which was referred to the .,mmittee on Pensions. 

He also presented a memorial of the Board of Trade of Chicago, ill., 

indorsing and approving the Potter re~ing bill; which was referred 

to the Committee on Finance. 

He also presented a memorial of cigar-makers of Rock Island, Ill., 

and a memorial of cigar-ma,kers of Danville, ill., remonstrating against 

the ratification of the proposed Spanish reciprocity treatY; which were refened to the Committee on Foreign Relations. 

Mr. MITCHELL presented a petition of citizens of Pennsylvania., praying that the United States shall acquire the title to the two canals 

connecting Portage Lake, in the State of Michigan, with Lake Superior 

on the east and west; which was refer~ed to the Committee on Com- merce. . 

Mr. BLAIR presented a petition of the lt!atcoma · Edge Tool Company, of Lebanon, N. H., praying legislation amendatory of the law re- lating to (hawbacks on articles made of foreign material. fi:om foreign 

market5, on account of the disastrous effect the present law has upon 

the export trade of the United States; which was referred to .the _Committee on Finance. · 

Mr.' SHERJIAl~. I present a petition signed by quite a number of 

citizens of the United States, in. which they state thatIn several of the States, among which are South Carolina, Alabama, ·1\Iissis- :~ippi, Louisiana, '.fenne ee, and Ohio, and ·some otber States, the charge bas been made that many of the citizens have been for a serie of years, and during the late election for President and Vice-Pre ident, l...-ept away from the polls by threats and acts of violence and bloodshed, a system of ruffiani m nnrebnked by the go,•ernments of some of the aforesaid tate . _ 

The petition also ets fo_rth other grievances relating to an interfer- ence with the free suffrage of citizens, and praying for certain remedies. 

I move that the petition be referred to the Committee on Privilege 

and Elections.· The· motion was agreed .to. 

Mr. LAPHAM 1nesented a concurrent resolution of the Legislature 

of New York; which was read, and referred to the Committee on Commerce, as follow : S ·u .TE Of' XEW YO~K, 1.!" SESATE, 

. .Albalt!J, January 29, 188~. 

Resolved (if the assembly concur), That our Senators ami Representatives in CoHl!l'ess be respectfully reqne ted to 1111re the pas age of the appropriation· o( 

$300,000, h1 aid in the construction of tl!e l\Iichlgau and 1\li is' ippi (Hen'neph}.) Canal, in the river a.nd harbor bill now before Cong~;ess. 

STATE OF XEW YORK , ~ SESATE, 

The foregoin.g re. olution wa duly passed. 

By order of the senate. 

JatlUQI'Y 29,1885, 

0. A. CHICKER;G\G, C:lerl,. 

• '1'."-TE OF' XEW YORK-, IS ASSEH:BLY, 

. The foregoing resolution was duly passecl. January 29, 1885. 

By 01·der of the assembly. 

JOHN W. VROO:\IA~. C/e1·!:. 

Mr. HO.!.R presented the petition of Aboy Hopper Gibbon, presi"!' 

dent, and Ann:\ Rice P.lwell, secretal)·, of the New York committee 

ibr the prevention of . tate Te~ulation of '"ice, praying that the power 

of the National Board of Health be more clearly detined, and that it 

may not legalize social vice; whi<:h wa: rcfened to the Committee on Epidemic Diseases. R'EPOllT~ O.F CO)DIITTEES. 

~[r. PLU~~B . . I report back from the. <;:ommittee on .Appropriations; 

with amendments, the bill (H. R. 8039) making appropriations to provide for the ex pen es of the go,·ernment of the District of Columbia for 

the fiscal year ~n<ling Jnne 30,. 1886, and for other purposes. The bill 

is accompanied by a written report., and I give notice that at an early 

day I shall call it up for action. 

Mr. HOAR, from the Committee on C1aims, to whom was referred 

the bill (H. R. 2-t29) for the relief of Moses U. Bane, submitted an adYerse report t.Qereon which was agreed to ; and the bill wa postponed 

indefinitely . 

·Mr. CA~IERON', of Wi 'Cfmsin, from the Committee on Claims, to 

whom was referred the petition of Susan W. Goode, ofl\Ia.rshall County, 

l\lis issippi, praying pay~teut lor stores and '81lpplies taken and used by 

United States troop~ iu 1 62 and 18f:;:}, ubmitted an . adverse report 

ther on, which was agreed to; and the prayer of the petition denied. 

He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the petition 

of Mary D. Hamilton, Frances A. H;nnilton1

' Mrs. L. M. McKinney, _ and J. D. Hamilton, praying pay Jor property taken and used"for the 

bene{it of the United States Army in 1 62, submitted an adverse re- pOit thereon, which was agreed to· and the p1~ er _Of the petition denied. 

He also, from the same committee, to whom wa ref~rred the bill (H. 

R. 948) for t he · relief of J oh.n M. Dorsey and William F. Shepard., re- ported it without amendment, and ~nbmitted a report thereon. 

Mr. ALLISON, from t.he Committee mi Appropriations, to whom·wa.s referred the bill (H. R. 7785) making appropriation for the payment of 

invalid :md other pensions of the United States for the fiscal yeru: ending June 30, 188~, and for other purposes, reported it with amendments. 

CREDEXTIAL OF W. ~I. EV ARTJ . 

Mr. HOAR. I am directed by the Committee on Privileges and Elections, to whom were referred the credentials of William 1\I. Evarts, as Senator-elect from the State of New York,. to ubmit a report, which I 

desire to have read . . . The PRESIDENT pro tempore. '!'he report will be read. · - The Chief Clerk read as follows: 

The Committee on Privileges and Elections, to whom were referred the cre- dentials of William 1\I. Evarts as a Senator elected from the State of 1\~w York for six years from the 4th day of l\Iar h, 1885, ha1e considered the same andre- port: · · The papers referred to the committee seem to be transc1·ipls of the records of the proceedings of the two houses of the General A sembly of the State of New York, on the occasion of the election of a Senator for lhe aforesaid term, au- thenticated by their presiding and recording officer . Such transcript is not required by the law of the United States to be furnished to the Senate a evi- dence of the due election of a. Senator. · On the other hand, the document is not signed by the executiv~of the State or countersigned by the secretary of state. This is expressly required by the Revised Statutes of tpe United State , title 2, chapter 1, sections 18 and 19 •. 'Ve are of opinion that the credentialsa1·e defective, and recommend that they li~ on the table. 

l\lr. HOAR. I suppose the credentials should lie upon the table, in 

accordance with the recommendation of the committee, and I have no doubt the defect in them will be supplied before the beginning of the 

con.'3titutional term for which the gentlem~ is said to have been elected. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD~SENATE. 

r-

'.rhe PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there ·be rio obj~tion the credentials mn be laid upon th~ table. 

BILLS INTiiODUCED. 

M1·~ ALDRICH introduced a bili (S. 2612) granting a pension to 

Ellen 1\fay Brown; which was read twice by its title, and referred to 

the Committee on Pensions. 

Mr. HQAR introduced a bill (S. 26l3) for the relief of the Atlantic 

Works; which was read twice by its title, and referred to the Committee on Claims. · • He also introduced a bill (S. 2614) for the relief ofNathanielMcKay, 

George !I. Clapp, George W. Lawrance, Snowden & Ma...c:on, and the 

executors of Donald McKay; which was read twice by its title, and re- ferred to the Committee on Claims. - . 

LA~D TITLES IN NEW MEXICO. 

Mr. HILL sul?mitted the following resolution; which was considered 

by unanimous consent, and agreed to: 

Resolved, That the Secr.etary of the Interior be directed to furnish to the Sen- ate copies of the reports of F. D. Hobbs and A. R. Green, inspect.ors of the 

General Land Office, on the subject of the frandulen t acquisition of title to lands 

in New Mexico, and of all testimony accompanying the same, and also copies of all papers on file in the Interior Department relating to this subject. 

RAILWAY MAIL SERVICE. 

1\Ir. COCKRELL. · I ask for the present consideration of the following resolution: · 

Resolved, That the Postmaster-General be directed to report to the Senate why in the document prepared in his Department, containing a documentary history of the railway mail service, transmitted to the Senate on January2J..l885,in re- sponse to a resolution of the Senate of January 19,1885, a paragraph on pages 10 

and 11 of such document, beginning with the words, "Mr. Davis's claim of pri- ority therefore seems to be v!Uid so far as traveling post-offi.cesln the United States 

ftl'e concerned," and ending with the words, "From this standpoint l\Ir. Davis 

is granted the claim of first experiment, and Mr. Armstrong the claim of gen- eral application," was stricken out by lines drawn across the same, and whether 

the paragraph so stricken out is not a. true statement of facts. 

The Senate, by .unanimous consent, proceeded .to consider the resolution. 

Mr. COCKRELL. On the-19th of January the Senate passed a res- olution directing the Postmaster-General to communicate to the Senate a document prepared in his Department containing a documentary history of the railway mail service from its origin in 1834 to the present 

time. That document has been .communicated to the Senate. I believe it was first referred to the Committee on Post-Offices and PostRoads, and then referred to the Committee on Printing. In the document, on pages 10 and 11, are the words referred to in the resolution. 

The paragraph reads as follows: 

Mr. Davis's claim .of priority therefore seems to be valid so far as travefing post-offices in the United States ar~ concerned, and thejllaim of 1\lr. ArmStrong IDU!Jt be ~onfined rather tf? th~ fact that be inaugurated a general system by which thiS method of dlstnbut10n was gradually extended over all the Jeadin .... lines in the country.- From this standpoint l\Ir. Davis is granted the claim of 

first experiment and Mr. Armstrong the claim of general application. 

. In the report lines are drawn across the words I have indicated. I 

state that the words in the paragraph which have been stricken out of 

that report contain the facts in the case established beyond all reason- able doubt. I state further tha-t there was in the Post-Offi.ce Department documentru.·y evidence to establish those facts beyond all question. · . I now have in my possession the documentary' evidence, and I present it to the Senate, as it has not been furnished from the Post-Office 

Department, in connection with the resolution I have submitted. I ask 

that this documentary evidimee be referred to the Committee on Printing, in order that it may be printed with the other evidence which has 

already been submitted by the Post-Otnc~ Department;· and I ask the 

Committee on Printing to delay any action upon the docri.inents before 

them until we can have a report from the Postmaster-General i.p 1·egard 

to the erased paragraph. · Mr. MANDERSON. I ask that the resolution may be read ao-ain 

for information. o · 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The resolution will be read. 

The Chief Clerk read the resolution. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Pending the considerationofthe reso- lution, the Senator from Missouri asks unanimous consent that certain 

papers the nature of which he has described be received and referred 

to the Committee on Printing. That order will be entered, if there be no objection. The question is on agreeing to th~ resolution. 

Mr. HOAR. I should like to inquireofthe Senator from Uissouriit 

the information he des~ could not have been obtained by a .Private 

note addre.c:;sed to the Postmaster-Genel'al without calling the attention ~f the Senate to it. ·. Mr. COCKRELL. I thought it a. matter of pr~priety and 1·ight that 

the Postmaster-General, who probably never saw the report at aU, 

might have an opportunity of explaining it to the Senate as a m~ttet 

of justice to him. Therefore I introduced the resolution, for I have 

no idea that he saw the document. 

Mr. HOAR. I should suppose that it would be more convenient, in 

the ordinary transaction. of public business, that the question as to the 

particular reason for inserting certain lines in a report, which had attracted the -att,ention of any Senator, should be ascertained by private 

inquiry. It could be done; but I make no objection to the resolution. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agreemg to the 

resolution. 

The resolution was agreed to. 

COA~TERS' HARBOR ISLAND. 

Mr. ALDRICH ~ubmitted the following resolution~ which was con- sidered by unanimous· consent, and agreed to: 

Resolved, That the Secretary of the Navy is hereby directed to report to the 

Senate what, if any, steps have been taken to establish an advanced course of instr~ction ~f naval officers at Coasters' Harbor Island, Rhode Island, and the · reasons which have controlled the action oftheDeparbnent. • 

ALLEGED POTO::\IAC LAND-PATENT. 

11U. ALDRICH: I offer the following .resolution for reference to the 

Committee on the District of Columbia.: . 

~esol'!ed, That the Committee on the District of Columbia is hereby instructed to mquue and report to the Senate whether any proceedings -of a. legal nature have been ta.ken tQ annul a. certain United States land-patent claimed to have 

been ~ranted to a portion of the Potomac Riv_e1· bottom opposite the city of Wa~ngton, and which. the Governmen~ has been improving since 1882; whetliet 

the mte,rests of the Urutt:d States are likely tQ suffer by raising that portion above hde-level before sa1d patent shall have been annulled· and what legisla- tion, if any, is necessary for the protection ofthe interests of the United St.ates jn this matter; and for this purpose said committee is authorized to send for 

persons and papers, and to administer oaths and take uch testimony as may be necessary. • 

Mr: RANSOM. I have no objection whatever to there olution beinG' ·referred to the Committee on the District of Columbia. There·is, how~ ever, as the Senator from Rhodelsla.nd doubtless knows a special com- mittee with reference to the Potomac Flats. · ' 

1\f;. ALDR~CH. I have no .objection to the resolution going to the 

special comnnttee or•the Committee on the Judicial·y. It is quite immaterial to me to which committee it is referred. 

Mr. RANSOM. I have ilo wish whatever in the matter. 

Mr. ALDRICH. I have none. If it comes within the jurisdiction 

of the ~cial committee I certainly should be quite willing ~hat the 

resolution should go to that committee. 

Mr. RANSOM. If I may be at liberty to do so, I will state that the 

Attorney-General i.tiforms me. that he has directed suit to be brought 

to do away with this a1leged patent: · ltir. ALDRICH. I tis a matter of considerable importance, and should ~ece_ive the attention .of SOIJ?-e committee at an early day. I have no obJection to the resolution gorng to the special committee. 

!Ir. RANSOU. I think I should prefer that it should not be refen-ed 

to that committee. I prefer that it should go either to the Committee 

ori the District of Columbia. or to the.Committee on the Judiciary. 

Mr. ALDRICH. I am inclined to think upon further consideration 

that it should go to the Co~mittee on the Judiciary. . Mr. HARRIS. I had just risen to make that suggestion. I thi,n.k 

1t properly belongs to the Committee on the Judiciary and had better 

go to that committee. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair uudJ!I'Stands the Senator 

from Rhode Island to modify his motion. . Mr. ALDRICH. Yes, sir; I move that the resolution be referred to 

the Committee on the Judiciary. · Tie motion was agreed tO. 

POTTAWATOMIE INDIANS. 

Mr. CONGER submitted the following resolution; which ~s con- sidered by unaf:rlmous consent, and agreed to: 

Whereas those.members of the Pottawatomie Nation of Indians residing in 

the ~tates of In~ana an~ Mic~gan claim that thet·e is due them by virtue of 

treaties made w1th the said nation considerable sums of money: ~ol~ed, T~at th~ Secretary of t!te Inter! or b~ and is hereby, directed to ex- 8Jl?1lle ~to sa1!1 clalmS and ascertam what, 1f any, amounts are due said India-ns· s1ud cla1ms bemg those set forth in the memorial contained in House Miscellane~ ous Document No. 8of the Forty-fifth Oongress second session. 

'.fhe Secretary is furth.er directed to ascertain 'whether the band of Pottawatoillles of. Huron, located.m Oalhoun ~unty, Michigan, and n~t mentioned in said 

memonal, should by vutue of treaties dated November 17 1807 September 19 

1827, and September 26, 1833, be included in any settlement thai may hereafter 

be made of the claims set forth in said memorial. 

MESSAGE FRO:i:I THE HOUSE. 

A message from the HouseofRepresentatives, by M:r.CLARK, its Clerk, ~ounced that the House had agreed to the amendment of the Senate 

to i(he concurrent resolution of the Hou.<~e relating to counting the elect-. oral votes for President and Vice-'President of the United States. 

The message also announced that the House had disagreed to the a~eJ?-dments of the Senate to th.e bill (H. R. 8121) to enable the com- IlliSSlO~::ters ofthe DistrictofColumbia to maintain public order during 

the ceremonies of t~e inauguration of the President, and for other purposes; asked a conference with the Senate on the diSagreeing votes of 

the two Houses thereon; and had appointed Mr. J. F. FoLLETT of Ohio, 

Mr. WALDO HUTCHINS of New York, and 1\Ir. JOSEPH G. CANNON of 

Illinois managers at the _conference on its part. 

I~ AUGURATION CERE.:\IONIES. 

:Mr. HARRIS. I ask the Chair to lay before the Senate the commu- nication from the House of Repre8en~-itives in respect to House bill No. 

8121. 

The PRESIDE...."{T pro tempore. The Chair lays before the Senate a. message from the House of Representatives which will be 1-ead. 
1246 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. FEBRUARY 4, 

The ChiefCle:rk read as follows: 

L"'" THE HOUSE OF RKPRESE!iTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES, 

.February 3,1885. 

Resolved, That the House non-concur in the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R.8121) to enable the commissioners of the l>istrictofColumbia to maintain public order during the ceremonies of the inauguration of the President, and for other purposes, and, ask a conference with the Senate on the .disagreeing votes of the two Houses thereon. 

Orde1·ed, That Mr. FoLLETT, Mr. HUTCHINs, and Mr. CANNON be the managers of the said coruerence o~ the part of the Honse. . . . 

. Mr. HARRIS. I move that the Senate. insist on its amendments 

and agree to the conference asked fur by the House of Representatives. 

The motion was agreed to. 

By unanimous consent, th~ President pro tempore }Vas authorized to 

appoint the conferees on the part of the Senate; and Mr. HARRis; Mr. 

INGALLS, and Mr. PIKE were appointed. 

WOMAN SUFFRAGE. 

1\Ir, P .ALMF..R. I gi'\"e notice that on Friday next, (Lt the conclusion 

of the morning hour, I sha;ll call up the joint resolution (S. R. 19) proposing an amendment to the Coustitutionofthe United States reported 

by me from the Select Committee on Woman Su:lfrage, for the purpose 

of offering a few remarks upon it. 

THE BARK l\I.A.RY TERESA. 

1\Ir. GORMA.X. During my absence from the Senate the bill (S. 523) 

for the relief of Juliet Leef1 widow, and the heirs of Henry Leef, de-. 

ceased, owner of the bark Mary Teresa, illegally seized by Alexander 

H. Tyler, consul of the United States at Bahia, Brazil, was on the 21st 

of January reported adversely from the Committee on Claims, ahd indefinitely postponed. I ask the unanimous consent of the Senate to 

reconsider the •ote by which the bill was indefi.Jti.tely postponed, and 

that it may be placed on the Ca.lendar. 

The PRESIDENT pro t.empore. The Senator from Maryland askS 

unanimous consent that the vote of the Senate heretofore taken indefinitely postponing the bill named by him be reconsidered, and that the 

bill be placed on the Calendar. Is there objection? The Chair hears 

none. The vote is reconsidered, and the bill will be placed on the 

Calendar with the adverse report of the committee. · · 

1\IESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE. 

·A message fr~m the House of Representativ.es, by .M:r. CLARK, its 

Clerk, returned to the Senate. the bill (H . . R. 691) for the relief of William W. Thomas, recalled from the Senate by request of the House: 

whether the boundless accumulations of the days of the Roman Empire or of medireval times. 

Eight hundred and twenty millions of annual tax levied on the labor 

and production of the country; one hundred and forty-odd thousand 

miles of railroad valued at between six and eight thousand million dollars-in the hands of a comparatively small portion of the people, and 

touching in its management and control the labor and production. ot 

every man, woman, and child in the country ! Upon it is dependent 

the entire economic and social condition of the country; in all the departments of business and trade the powers of this vast associated capital, incorporated for the purpose of transportation, affect most deeply 

and immediately the subsistence of the people and the comforts of life 

of every individual in the country. It is not in any wise pertinent to 

the consideration of this subject to point .out the beneficent effects of 

railroads and railroad improvement, to show the reduction of freights 

and cost of passenger travel. These are all true; but the question for 

proper consideration is whether the public evils alleged are tme; and, 

if so, the remedy-whether railroad and water transportation can still 

further be improved so as to reduce cost and prevent the evils of an un- restrained and unregulated monopoly. 

The power resulting from the control of such vast revenues-from 

the right to x at discretion the entire production of the country and 

all ofitspassengertravel-is the greatest of the sovereign powers of state. 

Granted by law to individuals, who are given the right of succession-or perpetuation, this power is sufficiently great to change the whole character of our institutions and to control and to appropriate the labor 

of every man, woman, and child in the country; leaving comparatively a small portion of it for the great body of the people. The power o1 

these vast agencies of transportation is one of the inost important questions ofthe age,' and the manne'r in which the legislative power of the 

country shall be exercised in regard to it concerns most directly the 

statesmanship of the country and the performance ofthe duties which 

rest upon us in our public capacity here. As we shall exercise this 

power wisely and in the interests of the great ~dy of the people and 

all the industries of the country, we. shall receive· the ap-proval of the 

people, and as we shall fail to redress the evils of which they now com- plain we shall be eondemned by thexp-. 

What is the difference in the measures proposed in these two bills? 

They both affirm the evils and declare the power of the Congress of the United States to control and regulate the subject. The Reagan bill 

proposes to prohibit and punish these evils, not only by opening the 

Federal courts of the United States to the aggrieved person, but also Th~ERSTATE COl\I:MERCE. by making them a _penal offense, and it requires the ~trict a'ttorpey 

:MI'. CULLOM. I move that the Senate proceed to tke consideration of the United States to proseeute the same (section 7). It brings, thereof the unfinished business. . fo:re, the whqle power of the Government of the United States to snst.ain 

The PRESIDENT pro tenl-p&re. The Senator from Illinois moves the individ~l in his suit against the corporation in obtaining a redre 

that the Senate proceed to the consideration ofthe bill.(H. R. 5461) to for any grievance committed in violation of the law. 

1·egulate interstate commerceand·to prohibit unjust discriminations by The bill also authorizes and requires the district attorney of the common carriers. Unit.ed States to proceed in the name of the p3rty aggrieved in the cirThe motion was agreed to. cnit court of the United States. The power of the UniteQ. State· is 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The bill is before the Senate, and therefore effectively brought by the Reagan bill.int9 effect to re-enforce, 

the question is on concurring in the amendment made as in Committee as some Senators have expressed it, the aggrieved individual in the asof the Whole. The Chair understands that the Senator from Florida sertion of his rights. It would seem that this provision would effectu-

[1\Ir. CALL] desires to offer some amendments. allysatisfytheviewsofSenatorswhodesiretoaid the citizeniu theasserMr. CALL. I offer, by request of the Senator from Mississippi [!t'Ir. tionofhisrightsagainstcorporatepowerandgreataccumulated wealth. 

GEORGE] who is absent, an amendment to come in at the end of sec- The Cullom bill provides for three commissioners, nine as amended, tion ·4 of the amendment agreed upon as a substitute for tlle Hous~ bill. and requires transportation companies to charge reasonable rates, and 

The PRESIDENT pro ternplJ1·e. The amendment will be read. declares unreasonable rates extortion and a misdemeanor. It also 

The CHIEF CLERK. It is proposed to add the following to section 4 makes greatex charges agaiustonethan another under substantially simof the amendment made as in Committee of the Whole: ilar circumstances and conditions unjust discrimination and a mi.s(leAn.d proof that any transportation company has made a greater charge for meanor. In case of complaint against a~y railroad company, it pro- hauling any such freight for a. shorter .distance than it charges for hauling in a. vides that if after an investigation reparation has been demanded and 

contemporaneous service a. like quantity of similar freight for a greater .dis- has not been made and the evil discontinued, a. report having been furtance shall be prima facie evidence of unjust discrimination. . nished to the railroad company, then they shall require the district atThe PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to this torney to sue the railroad company. The difference between the two 

amendment. · bills in this respect is that the Cullom bill. requires a quasi-judicial 

Mr. CALL. The Senator from ::Mi.ssissippi [.Mr. GEORGE] requested suit before thecommissionand an opportunity to the railroad company me to offer this amendment to the bill, and in doing so I shall submit to abide by it, and if the company sha!l abide by it and redress the 

very briefly some observations upon the general subject. evils, then it is relievec;l from any further liability on a.ccount of the 

The two bills before the· Senate, the Reagan bill and the Senate or act complained of.. The other provisions of this bill relate only to ac- Cullom bill, a.re alike in some important respects. They both affirm quiring information and reports by the commissioners. , the existence of great public evilS and ·the power and necessity of legis- We have, then, the two bills before us, and it is quite evident that the 

lati•e control and correction of them. They differ only in the methods only material respect in which they dijfer is that the Reagan bill on the 

by whi~ these acknowledged evils are proposed to be remedied-that petition of a. citizen requires the United States to sustain the suit of the 

is, in the measures through which the power of Congress is proposed to citizen against the corporation. This is the material difference be- . be exercised over the subject. tween these two bills. The Reagan bill brings the power of the United 

The regulation of the interState commerce of the country and its rela- States directly to bear in aid of the citizen, and it declares as an absolute 

tion to transportationcoversthewholesubjectoftheeconomiccondition penal offense any violation of the law. Another feature of the Reagan 

of the country and affects directly the relations of capital and labor, ot bill as pr.esentM. here prescribes a fixed rate of transportation for pasbanking and exchange, and of supply and demand. It does not stop sengers at 3 cents a mile and. prohibits. a greater compensation for a here, but it also affects the social conditions and relations of the people, shorter than a longer distance. 

and is rapidly changing the Character of our Government and of our in- This is said to be an amendment to the original bill, and not co!.ltemstitutions from a republic controlled by public opinion, and in which the pla~ in the limits of its purpose and remedial agencies, and it is said 

people control the powers Of the Natio.nal Government and th~ States, by 1:10me Senators «>. be entirely foreign to the spirit and aim of the bill 

to a government of privileged classes and of personal wealth, the direct I as originally proposed. I do not propose to discuss this point, as whatcreature of the legislative power-wealth which surpasses in its vast ever may be the merits of the proposition it i quite evident that there 

proportion.. 'I the accumulations of any period of the history of the world, is no intention to make any part of the Reagan or Hon e bill a law. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 1247 

What are the true principles upon which legislation shall be founded 

in respect to the regulation of interstate commerce ? We shall all agree. 

that a railroad corporation should derive from its business a reasonable 

rate of profit, the same rate as is afforded by other business on the 

amount of its necessary and reasonable capital, and that it should not 

be allowed to derive from its business ·as a public carrier enormous ap.d 

unreasonable and oppressive profits. We shall all agree that a common earner should be required by law to carry its freight and passengers at 

reasonable rates. The legislation of Congress, therefore, should com- prise protection to the interest of the people and of the corporations. 

If thwe shall be any legislation on this subject in the interest of the 

people, we must contemplate the power of Congress to regulate interstate commerce as complete And entire, and to prescribe rates, if neces- sary, for continuous routes and to require continuous transit. If these 

things can not be done, then Congress has no power to legislate effect:-

ively upon the subject, or to correct any of the evils complained of. 

The cost of transportation must be the basis and regula~on of a rea-· sonable rate. It is not to the interest of the people that the railroads 

should not e.s:i t. Theycan notexistwithoutr~nablecompensation. 

They must be allowed to charge such rates, and no more, as are wise 

and rensonable and as will allow such a reaSonable compensation on theit- proper and necessary cost, after paying out operating. expenses and 

its cpst of repairs. 

The-whole argument on both sides demands that this re ult shall be 

in some way attained. The Cullom bill proposes to attain this result 

chiefly by the recommendations of a commission and by the ju<ioO'lllent 

of a court m deciding what is a reasonable rate, but it affirms that the 

violation of this rule presCiibing a reasonable rate shall constitute a 

penal offense, and to that extent it affirms quite as precisely and positively the power of Congress to prescribe .a rate and the expediency of 

prescribing a rate as does the Reagan bill in it$ present amended form 

in prescribing the rate of 3 cents a mile, for the courts in deciding uppn 

that reasonable rate must ru certain ami fix what it is, and it is by virtue of the power conferred in this act of Cpngress declaring that any 

other than~ reasonable rate shall be a penal offense that the courts will 

ha~e so.ch a power in relation to i~teTstate commerce. · 

It will be obsen-ed that if Congress has. the power t{) preScribe a rea- sonable rat~ it has also of necessity the power to prescribe what that 

rate hall be ; and if it has power to make it penal t{) charge any other 

rate, as a matte1· of law it will become its duty to declare·withcertainty 

what specific act will constitute such crime o-r penal offense. Therefore in that respect~ while not unuertaking to justify it, .as a matter ot 

expediency I insist tJlat in the prescription of a :fixed amount, the departure from which shall be a crime, the Reagan bill, the House bill, 

is £'1ite1· than the Senate or the Cullom bill in that it declares with cer- thinty what violation of the law, what act, shall constitute the penal 

offense. · 

I do not know of any reason why, if Congress has power to regulate 

commerce and forbid discriminating charges and combinations to pre .. vent competition, it has not the power to prescribe rates, however inexpedient it may be to prescribe them. 

To this complexion we must come at last if we deal :with this subject, and deal with it we must, and our treatment Of it must be in the 

interest and for the benefit of the great body of the people. · No party 

and no government can resist the increasing demand of the business in~rests of the whole people of the United Sta.tes and of all its industrie that these great agencies of the modern industrial system shall be 

wisely regulated and controlled by law in the inter~t of the great 

body of the people, and that public man who resists this demand iS not 

in my judgment a wise and true friendofthegreat transportation com- panies of the country. We have . but to look at the action of thirty 

States, and of the boards of trade and commerce, and tl1e resolutions 

of all.the conventions of business men, to be advised of the great body 

and force and t1I1a1Umity of public opinion on t_his subject. 

What then is the principle on which the business of a railroad com- -pany can be regulated, whether bylaw or otherwise, in a fair, reasona- ble, and just manner both to the whole body of the people and to the 

inte1·ests of the railroad company itself, recognizing the fact that the interests of the two a.~.:e really harmonious, and that to promote the just 

interest of the one is to promote the just interest of the other? Mr. 

Alexander, vice-president of the Louisville and Nashville Railroad Company, on page 52 of the House testimony, Miscellaneou.s Document 55l 

Forty:seventh Congress,·:first session, states it as follows: 

It will, of course, be admitted that the whole volume of business done over any ro.ill-oad should support the road, pay au interest upon and gradually retire its debt, and yield a fail' profit upon the investment, Anything less than this would be communism. 

It is but just to say of Mr. Alexander that he is a gentleman of 

talent and information, and is opposed to t4e R_eagan bill and to any 

exercise of power by Congress· over this subject. This seems to me to 

present the elements of future legislative adjustment of this great 

question. No discrimination between persons and places, no pools, nor 

devices to prevent competition, no :fictitious capital or watered stock, a t·easonable and proper valuation of the cost of construction for the 

purpose of establishing rates of transportation, rates proportioned to 

the volume of business done on the road in its relation to the payment 

of interest and the gradual retirement of the debt and a fair compensation on capital actually and reasonably invested in the construction 

of the road. 

And these results, ascertained in some public and authoritative. way 

by the authority of Congress, would seem to indicate the proper direction of future legislation by Congress. The evils which these bills propose to remedy have been affirmed by t~ty of the States, by the boards 

of trade o~ all the great cities, who demand imperatively legislation by 

Congress. Discriminations in freights and transportation between per- sons and places, the use of corporate power given by law in aid of their 

business as common carriers perverted to an interference with the trade 

and business of the country, to increasing or lowering the price of com- modities at their will or pleasure and interfering with the legitimate 

value of public securities by watering stock or accumulating great 

amounts of money for speculation in other securities-these things 

the public opinion demands shall be prevented by whatever legislation 

is necessary. I do not see how you can prevent these discriminations 

while you allow a larger rate of compensation for a short distance than 

a long one; you can not prevent them while you allow the same rate 

of compensatioJ!. for a short distance as for a long one, nor can you prevent them without adjusting the charges as between one pla-ee and an- other on some reasonable basis and proportion of cost. 

I can not perceive that the reasonable adjustment of the cost o( transportation between different pl:ices can l.!e reached by any rule that the 

cost for a short dist.a~ce shall be the same as that prescribed for a long 

distance. Neither can I perceive that the proposition, wise as it appears 

to be in some respects, contained in the Mahone amendment, will altogether reach this case, or that it may be remedied by a rule that the 

charge for a t'lhort distance shal~ not be greater than the charge for a long distance. WhJl,t is wanted is the lowest possible rate consistent 

wit-h a rea onable profit to the carrier, and that rate equal and impartial to all persons and all places; this result being reached, if it be 

true that over a raihoad with it9 local charg~s thus adjusted through 

freight from other lines can be carried for a smaller proportionate c.ost 

than the intermed~te frejghts, I can see no reason why this should not 

be allowed by l~w. 

Under a system properly adjusted it could never be true that the proportionately small~r cost of through transportation wou1d be a factor greatenoughtodiscriminate~aainstthelocalorintermediatefreightsand 

transportation to any injurious extent, nor would-it probably overbalance reduced rate of local freightS resulting from the increased profits of a company from the addition of the profits of a through ousine.."S to its 

local business. In both of these bills the conclusion is reached and the 

proposition affirmet.l that transportatio:tt must be regulated by law. 

It has been .repeatedly so affirmed by the States within and to the 

extent of theit- State power, and now it is affirmed by Congress in the 

exercise of its n{ltural power in relation to interstate commerce. But, Mr. President, the action of the Board 'of Trade of New York 

and of other cities has presented to us a proposition, and I think it is 

fair to give them an opportunity to try it. . I read from the testimony 

of Ur. Josiah J. White, representing the Board o( Trade and Transportation of New York, page 29 of the House report: 

I can say as a member of the New York ·Pl'Oduce Exchang~ that there is great danger now that all the grain produced in this country will be monopo- lized by a few individuals. Even during the strictest regime of the last pool discrimination was shown in the way of reba test so that if the market declined those who were in the railroad ring (and the ral11·oads have their agents there quoting prices every day) were gu:uant.eed against loss. I had a little thing 

happen to me the other day as a shipper. I had two car-loads shipped to me as samples to know if I wourd take forty cars more of the same kind of merchan- dise. The two car-loads arrived, and I Wl"Ote to UJY friend accepting the rest of them. Those two ca,r•loads were billed through to New York at 15 cents the hundred pounds from Cincinnati. I went to Cincinnati myself, and I ordered the rest of them to be shipped. Then the railroad company wanted 30t cents per hundred pounds, a rate which amounted to a prohibition of the merchan- dise, .and my forty cars of stuff are in Cincinnati to-day and can not be moved, because the rate of freight exacted on them amount;;'& to 100 per cent. of the value of the goods when laid down in New York. That is a thing that occurs every day. Here is a violent fluctuation caused by irresponsible railroad man- agement, favoring their friends in the pool and driving other part-ies to the wall. There was another little subject in connection with this .matter which I discovered when I was in Cincinnati at that time. That was that all the friends of the railroad companies that were in the pool were notified a few days before of what was going to take place, and were advised to make freight contracts. There were thousands of contracts made on the basis of 15 cents per htmdred pounds, and on those contracts freight is being carried now from the West to the East; whereas the rest of u.s who were not favorites have got to have our commerce stopped. One of the causes of the late panic among the produce men was the rise of rates. The merchandise could not be moved and-laid down on the seaboard at a price on which they could get out whole. There were g~eat 

losses and failures all over the country-()()mm.ercial failures. The upset of one house !:>rought down another house. It is for that reason, gentlemen, that J feel that there must be somecontrolli~gpower over the railroads. I think that baH the railroads of. the country want It themselves. I have ta.lked with the . presidents of various railroads with whom I do busine s, and I hav.e found an almost unanimous opinion among the railroad men (whom I call anti-monopolists) in favor of Government supervision. They want some regulation of this thing. 

llr. Thurber gives his testimony as follows: 

I can imagine a state of thiligs where it would seem very hard to prohibit a railroad that was competing with a water-line communication, for-instance, to agivenpoint, fromcarryingfreightfor 1,000 miles at a. cheaper rat ethan it would charge for carrying freight 750 miles to a :point where the water competition did not exist. But if there could be a superVISion of the railroads in the interest or the public, when its rates came to the r.oint that it was carrying freight at a loss. the railroad company would be told, 'Thus far shalt thou go, and no farther. You may carry freight as cheaply as you please, in order to keep up your busi- ness and to keep your rolling-stock employed, but you shall not carry freight at a rate which occasions a loss, and which loss you make up by charging hisher 

• 
1248 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. FEBRUARY 4. 

freight to the people on another section of your road." There, I think, is where 

the line can be drawn, and should be drawn, on that matter of guater and lesser 

distances. 

·m. President, I have offered this amendment of the Senator fr_om 

Mississippi, not believing that it will a_n~er a1f the purpos~ that ~re 

desired not believing that we can av01d m thiS gr~t quest1on of m- tersta~ transportation some ·methOd of arriving at a; _reasonable rate, 

and of preventing excessive charges, but as a measure m response to the 

specific demand of the great commercial. and agricultural ~nterests of 

the country. If it shall be found to fall and not answer 1ts purpose 

it could be easily altered in the coming session of Congress. I therefore offer the amendment that I have proposed. · The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. FRYE in the chili). The que - tion is on the amendment of the Senator from Florida. 

Mr. CALL. I ask for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered; and the Sec1·etary proceede~ to call 

the roll. · .Mr. CAMERON, of Pennsylvania (when his name was called). I am paired with the Senator from California [Mr. FARLEY]. 

Mr. Cll!ERON of Wisconsin {when his name was called). I am paired with the se~ato ft·om l\Hssissippi .[Mr. GEORGE]. If he were 

}lresent, I shoul.d vote "nay." . . Mr. GARLAND (when his name was. cap~d). I am pal.l'ed on this 

question with the Senator from West Vugtma [ltir. CAMDEN]. If he 

were here, ! ·should vote "yea." · Mr. PLAT.r (when Mr.IIA. WJ .. EY's name was called). :My colleague 

[Mr. HAWLEY] is paired with the Senator from· .Alabama [.1\ir. MoRGAN]. I do not know how either would vote on this amendm~nt. 

Mr. PAL.l\IER (when his name was called). I am patred '!1th ~he 

Senator from Kent1,1ck'"-y [Mr. WILLIAMs]. If he were here I 1m~ome 

he would vote '' yea,'' and I would vote ''nay.'' 

Mr. SAULSBURY (when his name was called). I ~~ired :with 

the Senator from Colorado [Ur. HILL]. I sborud Y~te yea'' ·if he 

were present. · The roll-call was concluded. . Mr. MAXEY. The Senator from North Carolina [Mr. RANSOM] 

and the Senator from lllinois-[Mr. LoGAN] are paired. . The PRESIDING OFFICER (lli·. FRYE). . The present occupant of 

the chair is paired with the junior Senator from Louisiana [Ur. GIBSON], with liberty to vote to make a quorum, and will vote "nay." 

The result was announced-yeas 8, ~ays 32;-as follows: 

Call, 

Coke, 

A,ldrich, 

.Allison, 

Bayard, 

Blair, 

Butler, 

Chace, 

Cockrell, 

Colquitt, 

YEAS-8. 

.Jones of Florid..1., Platt, 

Maxey, . Slater, 

Conger, 

Cullom, 

Dolph, 

Edmunds, 

Frye, 

Groome, • Hale, 

Hampton, 

N.A.Ys-32. 

Harris, 

Hn.rrison, 

Hoar, 

Ingalls, 

.Jackson, 

.Jonas, 

. McPherson, 

Manderson, 

.A.BSENT-36. 

VanWyck, 

Voorhees. 

"Miller of N.-Y., 

Morrill, 

Pil}.e, 

Pugh, 

Sawyer, 

Sewell, 

Sherman, 

Wilson. 

Beck, ,Garland, Lapham, Plumb, 

Bowen, George, Logan, Ransom, 

Brown, Gibson, McZ!Iillan~ Riddlebcrger, Camden, . Gorman, :1\!ahone. Sabin, 

Cameron.ofPa., Hawley, MillerofCa..l., Saulsbury, Cameron of Wis., Hill, Mitchell, Vance, . Dawes, · .Jones of Nevada, Morgan, Vest., Fair, Kenna, Palmer, 'Valker, 

Fadey, . Lamar, Pendleton, 'Villiams. 

So the amendment was r~jacted. · . Mr. CALL. I offer the following amendment to come in after the 

word ''excepted,'' at the end of line 21 of section 6: 

And any person damaged by extortion or \mjust discrimination may, in addition to the foregoing, have the remedies provided in the next section of this act· but in case such person e:iect to bring any action for damages as provided for in said next section; said action shall be a bar to any action bmught under 

that section by the district attorney. . 

}!r. HARRISON. I shall vote against that amendment simply be- cause it is past my understandin~. I can not get the scope-and drift 

of it at all. I do not know what the intention of "the Senat-or .is. I can not understand what is the remedy provided in the next section to 

which be refers. 

Mr. CULLOM. There is no remedy in the next section at all. 

Mr. CALL. The amendment was prepared by the Senator from 

Mississippi fl\Ir. GEORGE], and I supposedlhad theproperplaceforit 

to come in. ·.The next sectio:p a.s I read it is: 

.Any such transportatio~ com pan); that ~ba~l ~e co!lvict.ed under ~he provisions ofthis act of either extortiOn or liDJUSt dlScrunmatwn shall forfe1t and pay for 

each offense a fine of not exceeding tll,OOO. 

The next section is section 7. It does not contain any proper refer- ence apparently. . I withdraw the amendment. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The-Senator from Florida withdraws 

the amendment. 

Mr. VANWYCK. I propose an ameniJ.ment to ~he Senate bill on page 7, section 7, line 10, to insert the word "traveling" before " ex- penses;" so as to read: 

All necessary traYeling. expenses incurred by the commissioners or by their 

employes, &c. 

Mr. CULLoM. So far as I am concerned I ain willing to accept that. 

Mr. V .AN WYCK. I would say to Senators that we have had ~o 

much scandal in connection with the payment of expenses of commiSsions and the Treasury Department ha..c; been so extravagantly liberal, tha~ the allowance ought to be qualified and limited to their traveling 

expenses. . 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the amendment of 

the Senator from Nebraska [1\Ir. VANWYcK]. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

.1\Ir. CONGER. Are amendments to the body of the bill in ort.lcr 

now? • The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment made as in Committee of the Whole is open to amendment in the Senate. 

Ur: CONGER. I have a series of amendment , all relating to the same subject-matter. In section 12, line 3, before the word "routes," 

I move to strike out ' 'and water,'' o as to confine it to railroad . ft now reads: 

That the route of any transportation company engaged in interstate commerce shall include all the railroad and water routes in use by such company. . 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. ·The question is on the amendment 

of the Senator from Michigan. 

Mr. CONGER. I call for the yeas and nays. · The yea.s and nays were ordered. · Mr. HARRISON. I unde1.-stand that this amendment of the Senator 

from J\fichigan and others which be proposes to o:ffer•in succession are intended to eliminate from the bill all supervision or control over transportation rorttes partly composed of railroad lines and partl5" of wa~ 

communication; so that the bill, if this amendment and those which are to follow it are adopted, will be left to apply exclush·ely to interstate commerce by railway. • . . I do not want to debate this question, but I do want to state that m my judgment that would destroy, in a very large ~easure,. the efficiency 

of this supervision which it is sought to have over mterstate commerce. A break .in the crossing of a river in a railroad line upon S?nfe State 

line would take that route entirely out of the scope and pw·v1ew of the 

bill. . . 

·If we undertake to regulate this subject of commerce we must regulate all those who partly by mil and partly by water are engaged in ·carrying the productions of the country. If we do not do so, 'Yhatever 

restraints and limitations there are;whateveroftbis sortoftbmgthere 

may be in the bill, is made to apply tp one cl~ of carriers and not "!-0 

another. That will destroy uniformity, will allow liberty to certam 

classes of carriers that iS not allowed to others, and will, in my j udg-· ment, destroy the efficiency of the measure. . l'rir. CONGER. Mr. President, I have conferred with vessel-merl, and 

from my own knewledge of the subject I have said, and I venttu'e to 

repeat now; that the provisions extending t~e jurisdiction of t~s com- mission and the rules laid down here over srngle vessels nav1gating the 

•waters of the country· will not only produce confusion but be absolutely destructive of the vessel interest of the country. I shall con- tent myself with calling for the yeas and nays on ea~ of these pl'Opositions; and ~ball have done my duty to that great mterest by that 

e.trort. .As we are coming to a final vote, I will not prolong remarks. 

In section 11 we have a provision which controls all railroad freights on railroadEi, and provides that that shall include the 1·ight of shippers 

to select their route by water or by rail. That is all we · need ask in 

this connection. Eut to extend the provisions of railroad restriction over the owner of a craft, of a steamboat, of a barge, of a ,·essel of any 

kind, and compel him to operate by rules made entirely for a railroad 

corporation, thus restricting the universal rigllt of all the people of 

the United States to.navigate the waters as they will, and to carry 

freight and passengers for whatever price they choose on the rivers a~d 

the lakes of the United States, seems to me utterly preposter.ous m principle and it would work great wrong in practi~e. 

But, sir, I have said all I desire to say on this subject. I can not 

help it if a Senator from the interior of Indiana can not see how water 

communication on the little Wabash may be affected by this, because 

the streams in his State are qf too little importance to have any navigation. The Senator is f01·tunate in having in his State one-and it is the 

only one-port on the great lakes, called Michigan City. It may not 

have occm-red to him that it is in Indiana from the name of the town. 

It lias some interest in the resultofthemotion which I have made, and 

1.ts people are infinitely more interested in it than are the people down 

in the interior of the State. along the 'Vabash. 

Mr. HARRISON. .1\Ir. President, the $enator from Michigan b~ a large State and large commercial interests to look after, and he always 

takes a wide view af any question. I have not proposed, nor does anybody propose to interfere with any steamboat r1lll1iing on its own ac- count, taking freight upon its own bills of lading and delivering it at 

any place else t.o the consignee. "The bill does not r~late to ~uch cases. ·It does relate, llS I understand-I run not respoDSlble for Its phrase- ology-to those through routes of h'3D..Sporta:tion which are made up 

partly of railwa_y and partly of water transportati;on. It would reaeh 

those cases where a railroad company employing its own steamers takes 

freiO'ht to-sandusky or Cleveland or Buffalo or some other point, and the~ upon its own steamers or upoii steamers with which it has con- tl-acts transports it to some other point iu another State. If that ran 
1885.· CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 1249 

be done, if the great commerce of Illinois can be brought to Chicago 

and can be there delivered to vessels on the lakes that are running in 

connection with the railroads, and can be transported to Buffalo and 

there taken upon a railroad and carried to New York without any Sltpervision under thls bill, then we bad better not undertake legislation 

at all, because then those lines will be completely emancipated, while 

theotherswill be held in and restrained by t4e provisions of this law. 

As to vessels trading on their own acCQunt, carrying freight from one water port to another, I do not suppose the bill would reach them at 

all; it only applies to lines that have combined to make a continuous 

transit, billing goods through and being composed partly of rail and 

partly of water transportation. 

Mr. CONGER. Mr. President, section 13 makes every little craft on the lakes or on the rivers subject to ev:ery rule in this bill as to con- tinuous freight, as to continuous passage, as to breaking bulk,· as to stopping a part-of the freight before it reaches its destination. There is no 

questio!l about that, for what is the language? . 

Tho.t the term" transportation company engaged in interstaie commerce," as use<l in this act, shall be deeme<l and taken to mean any corporation, company, or individual now owning, operating, or using any railroad or railroads, or any 

vessel or vessels-

" Any railroad" "or any vessel." This commission ca.n take any 

single craft, by the terms of section 13, and call any person or individual owning it a transportation comyany u.nder this act, and every provision applying to a great line of railroad can be made to apply to any 

steamboat, vessel, or craft of any kind. These restrictions on the use of vessels, which this bill applies to a great railroad route, would be 

entirely injurious and detriment,al, in my judgment, and destructiTe 

to the use of water craft on our rivers and lakesThat the term 1' transportation company engaged in interstate commerce," as used in this a.ct,sho.ll be deemed and taken to mean any corpoxation,company, or individual now 'Owning, operating, or using any railroad or railroads, or any 

vessel or vessels, in whole or in part. 

It does not say if. they are part of aline; it doe.<; not say if they are owned by the railroad company and governed and managed by it. If 

it did there would be some pr~priety in the remarks of_tha Senator from 

Indiana; but it sweeps in under the provisions of this proposed law the 

whole vessel interest, the whole coinmerce by vessels on all the waters 

of the United States-the coasting trade, the lake trade, the river trade, 

wherever it may be. · Mr. CULLOM. I will only say a word. I do not think that the 

construction placed upon section 13 by the Se.::1ator from Michigan is a correct one, and I call the attention of the Senate to the reading of the 

section for the purpose of ascertaining whether or not the Senator is 

right: · 

SEO. 13. That the term "transportation company engaged in interstate· com- merce," as used in this act, shall be <lcemed and taken to mean nny corporation, 

company, or individual now owning, op~rating, or using any railroad or roil- roads, or any vessel or vessels, .in·whole or in po.rt, or that may have the right, license, or permission to operate, use, or control o.ny railroad or railroads, or any vessel or vessels, in 'whole or in part, prQvided such corporation, company, or individual is engaged in t.he business of transporting freights or property of 

any description by railroad, or partly by railroad and partly by wat-er, from one State into 8.l)other State or Territ-ory of the United States, or from any Territory 

into any State or any other Territory. . 

It does not seem tome that thefairconstructionofthatsection would 

interfere in the slightest degree with the ope:J;ation of any man owning a steamboat or any sort of vessel simply running it upon the water on his own account; but it only applies to that sort of transportation of 

freight that is partly by rail and partly by water. That was the purpose of the section, and I think tha~ i"! the fair construction of its mean- ing. I ·do .not think it would be in the interest of the proper regulation of commerce between the States to strike out the whole subject of 

regulating water transportation. I think it would weaken the force of 

the measure in its operation if it should become a law. 

!have hadnodispositionmyselfandhadnonewhen the bill was drawn 

to interfere with steamboat navigation upon the l'rlississippi River or upon the lakes as a separate and distinct business; .but where railroad 

corporations have lines of steamers, as in the case, as I understand, of 

the New York Central, which are a part of their line, made so by their 

ownership, it seems to me that if we want to reach the evil and regulate interstate co~merce, the bill-ought to go as far as the language of 

this sectiop does go. 

The Secretary proceeded to call the roll on the question of agreeing 

to Mr. CoNGER'S amendment. · . Mr. CAMERON, of Pennsylvania (when his name was called). I 

am paired with the Senator from California [Mr. FARLEY]. 

Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin {when his name was called). I had a pair with the Senator fl'Om Mississippi [Mr. GEORGE]. I have tnmsferred that, however, to the Senator from California [Mr. Mn..iER]. 

The Senator from California and the Senator from Mississippi are paired, 

and I vote "nay." · 

Mr. HARRISON. I am paired with the Senator from Louisiana [Mr; 

JONAS] generally. I notice he is not in the Chamber; but the pair 

gives me liberty to vote upon these amendments, and I therefore vote 

''nay." 

Mr. PALMER (when his name was called). I am paired with the 

Senator from Kentucky-[Mr. Wn..LIAMS]. • · l'rfr. PLATT (when his nanie was called). I desire to announce again 

XVI-79 

that my coll~ue [Mr. H.A WLEY] is paired with the Senator from Alabama [Mr. MORGAN], both of them being caned away from the· Senate 

ori urgent business connected with their Senatorial duties. 

Mr. SAULSBURY (when his name was called). I am paired with 

the Senator from Colorado [Mr. HILL]. 

The roll-call was concluded. . .Mr. RIDDLEBERGER. My pair being transferred to the Senator. from Colorado [Mr. BOWE~], I vote "nay." 

The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. FRYE). The present occupant of 

the chair is paiied with the junior Senator from Louisiana [Mr. GIBSON.] 

The result was announced-yeas 5, nays 35·; as follows: 

l.'"E.AS---5. 

Butler, Conger, Hampton, Maxey. 

Coke, • N.AYS-35. 

Aldrich,· Dolph, McPherson, Sabin, 

Allison, Edmunds, 1\Ianderson, Sawyer, 

Blair, Hale, Miller of N .. Y., Sewell, 

Call, Harris, Mitchell, Sherman, 

Cameron of Wis., Harrison, 1\:lorrill, Slater, 

Chace, Hoar, Pendleton, Vance, 

Colquitt, lngnlls, Platt, Vest, 

Cullom, Jackson, Pugh, · Wilson. 

Dawes, McMillan, Riddleb'erger, 

.ABSENT-36 .. 

Bayard, Frye, jones of Florid!fo, Palmer, 

Beck, Garland, .Jones of Nevada, Pike, 

Bowen, George, Kenna, Plumb, 

Brown, Gibson, Lamar, Ransom, 

Camden, Gorman, Lapham, Saulsbury1 

Ca.meron of Pa., Groome, Logan, VanWyck, 

Cockrell, Hawley, 1\Iahone, Voorhees, 

Fair, Hill, l\lilJer of Cal., 'Valker, 

Farley, Jonas, 1\:lorgnn, Williams, 

So the amendment was rejected. 

l\Ir. CONGER. I will not test the sense of the Senate on all the 

other points in regard to wat~r routes. The amendment whi~h I have 

offered tests the questionjust.aswellasall;-and I de.sir~toremarkhere 

that I take the vote on tha.t as the view of the Senate in regard to all 

the places in sections 12 and 13 where this ~ctis extended over a single 

vessel and the owner and master of a single vessel. But I now move to strike out in section13, line 3, after the word ·" company," the words 

''or individual," and to insert the word t'or" before "company;" so as to lcave.on individual owning a vessel to rnn it as his interest may 

dictate. 

The PRESIDL.~G OFFICER. The Senator from Michigan offers an amendment which will be read. 

The CHIEF CLERK. In section 13, line 3, after the word ''company,'' 

it is proposed to strike out the words '.'or individual," and before the 

word ''company '' to insert the word ''or; '' so as to read: 

That the term" transportation company engaged ill interstate commerae," as used in this act, shall be deemed and taken to mean any corporation or com- pany now owning, opero.ti.pg, or using any ro.ilroad or railroads, or any vessel or vessels, &c. 

Mr. CULLOl\I. In the belief that there is no individual who owns a railroad, I "Qelieve I shall not object to that amendment. 

Mr. ALLISON. Suppose it should turn out that a railroad is in the 

hands of a receiver or assignee or trustee, :what would be the effect? 

Mr. CONGER. He does not own it. 

Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. The railroad would be in the hands 

ofthe court in that'case, and the trustee would be merelytheofficeror 

representative of the court to operate it. · Mr. ALLISON. But suppose it is in the hands of a trustee without 

the intervention of a court. There are trustees of mortgage bonds who 

often take possession of railroads under the conditions of the mortgage 

without the intervention of a court, and run it for the benefit of the 

stockholders and bondholders. I can see no objection to allowing these 

words to remain. 

Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. I do not think there is any objection to allowing them to remain, but I thought perhaps we could come to some understanding with our friend from Michigan if we allowed 

him some amendment that really does not amount to anything. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. CONGER. I can not hear the Senator. His remarks were interesting, I have no doubt from the faces of Senators around him, but 

I could not hear what he said . Mr .. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. It may be very interesting, but I 

do not think it will bear repeating, and so I shall not repeat it. 

Mr. CONGER. I see by the newspapers very often that remarks are 

made against the Senator from Michigan which I unfortunately do not 

hear. I should like to hear what the Senator from Wisconsin has said. 

It was a very pleasant remark, no doubt, from tlie faces of Senators. -Mr. CULLOM. I doubt whether the word "in(Uvidual" ought to 

be stricken out of the bilJ. I fear that would be taken advantage of, so that Vanderbilt or Gould or some man might .own a railroad and a 

line of steamships running on the lakes, and the wholeobjectandpurpose of the bill so far as that railroad and line of steamships was concerned would be avoided. I hope the Senator will not insist on the 

amendment. 

Mr. CONGER. I am free to say that I am very sorry that the Sena-
_. 

1250 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. FEBRUARY 4, 

tor from illinois can not tell exactly what an amendment to this bill 

might do. I think a more crude and undigested section of a bill was never offered to the Senate, and I say th~t with the more reason be- cause the Senate knows the Senator is not responsible for 'it. It came 

with this same crooked stick in it into his hands, and he is unable to 

let it go, even in respect to a single word, for fear· there might some- where spring np in the United States some Jay Gi>uld or some man who could own a whole railroad, although every law under which a railroad company is organized. provides that there shall be a president 

and directors and stockliolders.· He will not consent to an amendment 

because of some doubtful, undecided possibility that may arise in the 

future. 

Thill law with its commissioners at $7,000 or $8,000 a year to take 

charge of a little boat, a battcau, a barge;·with a caPW.in, a mate, and 

cook, and control themj and the commissioners are to have full power 

to do it under this law; and when I ask to relieve it of that difficulty 

Senators gather around and cry out, '' Jay Gould ! '' He is the man they are after; it is not "the captain of the ves el. They will strike out 

of the bill neither vessel nor owner nor individual who owns a vessel. 

I think a Philadelphia lawyer can not explain what this section 13 means. He can not tell where it applies nor how. I cmllenge anybody here to tell what is excluded and· what is jncluded in the term 

"transportation company." It says it shall include all compa.nies, 

corporations, individu~ls that use a vessel or vessels-in water transportation. The Senator from the prairie country in Iowa may be able to 

navigateashipthrough the dews on the prairies; hemnybe very learned 

in all matters connected with the appropriations of money; but I vent- ure to say that if you give him half an hour he can not begin to make an intelligible statement of the meaning of this section 13. 

The PRESIDING OFFICEij.. The question is on the amendment of 

the Senator from Michigan. 

Mr. CONGER. I ask for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered, and the Secretary proceeded to call 

the roll. 

Mr. GARLAND (when hisnamewasca.lled). I am p:tired with the 

Senator from West Virginia (Ur. CM!IDE~] on all tiiese question . I 

make the announcement for the day. 

Mr. RANSOM {when his name was called). I am pair~ 'vith the 

Senator from Illinois [Mr. LOGAN]. 

~Ir. SAULSBURY {when his name was called). I am J>aired with 

the Senator from Colorado [Mr. HILL]. . The roll-call was concluded. 

Mr. J.A.CKSON. The· Senator from West Virginia [~Ir. KEN~ A] 

requested me to announce his pair with the Senator from Minnesota 

[Mr. SABIN]. . . 

The result was announced-yeas 51 nays 35; as follows: 

YEAS-l( • 

Confter, 

Frye, 

McMillan, Miller of Cal., 

NAYS---{3.3. 

Aldrich, 

Allison, 

Bayard, 

Beck, Blair, 

Call, 

Cameron of Wis., 

Chace, 

pockre~, 

Cok:e 

Cullo~, 

Dawes, Dolph, 

Groome, Hale, 

Hampton, 

l{arr~s. 

I:t:a.rnson, 

Ingalls, 

Jack on, Jonas, 

1\Iaxey, 

Miller of N. Y., 

1\Iitchell, 

1\Iorrill, . Pendleton, 

Pike, 

ABSENT-35. 

Bowen, Garland, Brown, George, Butler, Gibson, Camden, Gorman, 

Camerotrof Pa., Hawley, 

Colquitt, Hill, 

Edmunds, Hoar, · . Fair, Jones of Florida, 

Farley, Jones of Nevada, 

So the amendment was rejected. 

Kenna, 

Lamar, 

Lapham, 

Logan, 

1\IcPhe~on, 

Mahone, 

1\Ianderson, 

1\iorgan, 

Palmer, 

Sawyer. 

Platt, Pugh, Riddleberger, 

Sewell, 

Vance, Van'\ryck:, Vest, 

Wilson. 

Plumb, 

Ransom, 

Sabin, 

Saulsbury, 

Sherman, 

Slater, 

Voorhees, Walker, 

Williams. 

Mr. SAULSBURY. ThiS bill professes to be a regulation of com- merce by Congress and it.-supplies a remedy for persons damnified in 

the manner prescribed by the bill. It occurs to me that it might be 

coruitrued as an act which would deprive any person i..p.jured by any 

railroad company of any remedy which he might have under any State 

law or under any other Federal law than that·which is now being enac~d. · I do not mow that it is ne~ry, but as a matter of precaution I have prepared an amendment, which I wish t9 offer, to come in 

at the end of section 7, reading aB follows: 

Provided, That nothing in this act shall be construed to deprive any person of any right of action which he may, have against any transportation company un- der existing lnws, State or Federal, this act being intended only to furnish cumu- lative remedies to persons having just cause of action against such company. 

It occurred to me that, this being a regulation of commerce by act of 

Congress, every person who might be damnified by any railroad com- pany in the country would be shut up to the remedy provided for in . this bm, which is a. remedy through the Federal courts. I have offered 

the amendment to exclude the idea that persons having just cause of 

complaint and right of -action against a railroad should be deprived of 

such right under any State or other Federal law. ·The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Delaware offers an amendment, which will be read. 

The CHIEF CLERK. At the end of section 7it is proposed to add: 

ProTJi.ded., That nothing in this act shall be construed to deprive any person of any right of a<ltion which he may have against any transportation company under existing laws, State or Federal, this act being intended only to furnish 

cumulative remedie to persons having just cause of actitm ags.inst such com- pany. 

~Ir. WILSON. If I can have the attention of the Senator froiD. Dela- ware a moment, I will say that that same thought had occurred to me, 

and I had prepared an amendment in the nature of an additional sec- tion, whichlwill read, as I think it covers the ground and a little more than the proposition of the Senator from Delaware. ·It is this: 

SEc.14. That nothing in this act contained shall be held to reqQire any person a~rieved by the act or omission of a transportation company within the/roVJSions of this act to pursue the remedy provided in sections 5 and 6 hereo for 

the ascertainment and recoYery of damages on account thereof; but such per- son may, by civil action in any court of competent jurisdiction, maintain au a.<>- tion as thou!fh this act had not been passed; and in such cases the duties, obligations, liabilities, and responsibilities of such transportation company in all 

respects shall be the same as though said action had been commenced in pur- suance of the remedy in said sections 5 and 6 provided. 

That carries to the action which the individuals may commence independently of this tbe liabilities in connection therewith that areprovided in the way of penalties and otherwise in the general provisions of the bill. · . · 

:Mr. SAULSBURY. I think both amendments cover about the same ground, and I mn perfectly willing to accept the amendment offered by 

the Senator from Iowa. 

Mr. WILSON. I had intep.ded offering this as an independent sec- tion. 

Mr. SAULSBURY. I was not aware that anybody else had any 

amendment to offer on this matter, .and it occurred to me that it was a very proper thing to Jo. I am perfectly willing to accept the amendment of the Senator from Iowa. . . The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Delaware accepts 

the amendment of the Senator from Iowa in place of the one offered 

by him. · 

i\Ir. WILSO~. I desire to have this go in as an additional section, as sedion 14. I prefer to wait until we reach that portion of the bill, as· I presume there a.re other amendments to the earlier sections of it. 

"?fir. MORRILL. You bad better offer it now. Mr ... \VIL ON. Very well; I will offer it now as an additional sec- tion. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Iowa offers an amendment, which will be read. 

The Chief Clerk re..<td the proposed amendment, as follows: 

SEc. 14. That nothing in this act contained shall be held to t'equire any person aggrieved by the actor omi sion of a tran ~rtation companywithi.ntheprovis- ion of this act to pursue th remedy provtded in sections 5 and 6 hereof for the 

ascertainmentand recove1-y of damages on account thereof, but.such person may, by civil action in any conrt of competent jurisdiction, maintain an action as thollgh this act hn.d not been passed.; and in such cases the duties, obligations, liabilities, and responsibilities of such transportation company in all respect shall be the same as though said' action bad been commenced in pursuance ol 

the remedy in said sections 5 and 6 provided. · · 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The. question is on _agreeing to the 

amendment to the amendment. 

Mr. CALL. Is it in order to offer an amendment to that amendment? 

The PRESIDING OFFICER . . It is not in order now. It would be 

an amendment in the third degree . 

The amet:!dment of Mr. WILSON was agreed tO. 

Mr. CONGER. !-offer an amendment which will modify the difficulty 

which I have with section 13 to some extent, and to which some of my 

friends say they have no objection. Section 13 defines the term '' transportation company,". as used in this a~t, to mean : 

Any corporation, company, or individual now owning, operating, or using any railroad or railroads, or any vessel or vessels, in whole or in part. 

After t~e word " part," in line 5 of section 13; I move to amend by 

inserting ''which are run by :my railroad company, making part of ita 

route.'' 

Mr. SEWELL. I suggest to add the words ''or for;'' so as to read, 

''which are run by or for any railroad company." · Mr. CON~ER. I have no objection to that. Let it read, "which are run by or for any railroad company, making part of its route.'' I 

think that the amendment I propose will be unobjectionable. It will remove the objection I have to the bill and make it more ~rta.in. _ 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment of the Senator from Michigan. · · The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. SEWELL. The amendment offered by me yesterday, as section 

14 of the substitute, was ado,Eted. with a proviso added, on the motion 

of the Senator from Kansas LMr. PLUMB], in 01der to control the linea 

going into !~e:iico. The amendment ofthe Senator from Kansas made 

it practically what I wish to arrive at; but both ~bject.s can be better 

accOmplished by striking o~t a part of the proviso. The proviso is in 

the folloWing languag-e: 

: Provided, That this shall not apply to transportation wholly by water. 

I move to strike out the words ''wholly by water '' and to insexi; 

"on the high seas," which is a technical phrase applied to the ocean. The amendment I suggest is satisfactory to the Senator. from Kansas, 

also. 
. 

f885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 1251 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment of the Senator from New Jersey. · Mr. CALL. I inquire of the Senator from New. Jersey if his amendment would not apply to the arrangement between the Pacific railroads 

and the Pacific Mail Steamship Company. It seems to nie that it would 

authorize that present monoply-of freights •which is· so milch com- plained of by the Board of Trade of New York. 

Mr. SEWELL. The former proviso would apply just the same. I 

wish to confine the operation of the section to the high seas. I do not 

waut to make it apply to inland water na.vigation. 

Mr. CALL. It seems to me the .section had better provide that·it 

shall not apply to inland navigation. It evidently would include the 

very evil so much complained of by the Board of Trade of New York 

in regard to th~ arrangement of a common rate of freight· between the 

Pacific Mail SteamshirtCompany and the Pacific"railroads. 

M:r. SEWELL. · If the Senator from Florida will hear the section 

read lie will see tha.t it applies now to the high seas and to inland transportation. I wish it to apply only to the high seas. Thesectionreads: 

That the provisions of this act shall be construed as applicable to all railroad or transpormtion companies engaged in the carrying of freight from any place 

in the United States through any foreign territory to any other place in the 

United States, or from any place in the United States to any place outsjde the 

United Srotes: Prov«<ed, That this shall not apply to transportation wholly by water. · 

. I wish to chu,nge it so that it shall not apply to tranSportation on the 

high seas. · 

Mr. CONGER. Will the Senator also include "on the great lakes" 

with "the high seas?" · 

Mr. SEWELL. As it is proposed it applies to roads competing with 

the tJ:unk lines. It will fix the Canadian transportation, which will 

come under this ad, part by water and part by rail. . 

l!fr. CONGER. The Senator wishes to fix it, whether he understands 

it or not, in the interest of a series of railroads running south of the 

great lakes, and to make .a cut, as the gentlemen of the Houseof Representatives did some years ago, outofthat great northwestand·northeast communication which goes across the level country of Canada West 

for the benefit of roads running south of the lakes. M:r. SEWELL. I have no hesitation in saying that I am in favor of 

protecting capital invested in the United States as against that invested 

in Canada. . Mr. CONGER. From Chicago to Port Huron there is a line of railroads owned by an American company running in the United States, 

the whole length of it. At the other end of that route there is a railroadrunning from Island Pond to Portland, owned by a.n American company, built by an•American company, but leased by a Canadian com- pany. Why should the Senator try to strike down the industry of those 

roads in the interest of the little New Jersey roads? I.t is remarkable 

that the Senator should ask anyt~g for a New Jersey road, because 

their generous conduct, proved by New Jersey companies that corporations have souls, contrary to all the established rules, never imposes 

upon the people of the United States traveling through New Jersey. 

That is so plain .that it seems to me he need not defend those roads. 

The New Jersey roads will be taken care of for their universal magnanimity and courtesy and kindness to the traveling public. · · 

The Senator might take the advantages that the New Jersey roads 

have fQr locality, and he might let the Northern roads, thegreattransporting routes from the Northwest and New Englan~ have the route 

which nature has prepared for them, without doing what a Representative 

from Toledo did in the same interest, if not with the same object, when 

he prepared a bill which would prevent the productions of the Northwestern States from being taken to Canada at all. That is the manly way 

to deal with it. Put in a provision here that Michigan, Wisconsin, illinois, and all the Northwestern States shall not pass any of their pro· 

ductions over. the railroads that run through Canada, and strike at the 

·matter at once in a manly way by providing that all New England shall 

not send to the West from Boston and Portland and all the towns there 

any-of their produce if it is going through Canada. 

Mr. SEWELL. . Will the Senator from Michigan allow me to ask him 

a question? . Mr. CONGER. I should rather the Senator would answer me some ofmy points than to ask me a question. ·:Mr. SEWELL. I wish to ask the Senator if he thinks a great wrong 

would be done to the Canada railroads by bringing them nuder the provisions of this bill ? · J)lr. CONGER. The bill ·does not· pretend tO have anything to do 

with railroads; it is waterthatthe Senator is talking about. Howev:er 

strange it l)lay sound to the Senate to ha-ve anybody talk about water, 

that is whatitmeans: Itisnotarailroadin Canada, it is a water com- munication on the great lakesin the United States that the Senator by 

his amendment strikes at; where the communication is wholly by water, as from Duluth to Buffalo, or from Duluth to Ogdensburg, the whole 

length of all the lakes. The Senator seeks to strike at the whole commerce of the Mississippi and all the great rtvers of the country by inserting ''high seas '' in place of water communication. . The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment of the Senator from New Jersey. [Putting the question.] 

By the sound the noes have it. 

lli. SEWELL. I ask for the yeas and n~ys. 

· The PRESIDING OFFICER. Ia there a second for the dem:md for 

the yeas and nays? In the opinion of the Chair there is a . second. 

The yeas .and nays are ordered. · . :Mr. CONGER. Let the other side be counted, :Mr. President. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from .Michigan demand the othro:. side of the count? · J)lr. CONGER. If that is my right, I ask that t}le other side be 

counted. · ThePRESIDING OFFICER. TheSenatorfromNew Jersey asks for 

the yeas and nays. The Chair will put the question again. I8 there ·a. 

second to that request? Senatori opposed to the request-- . Mr. CONGER. I do not ask that the question shall be taken again"! 

I simply asked whether I had a right, before those in favor of taking the 

question by yeas and nays had signified their desire to do so, to hav~ 

the other side also counted. . · l 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. In the United States Senate the only 

way to determine that fact is to count the Senators present and then ~certain whether one-fifth have voted in favor of ordering they~ 

and nays. l 

Mr. CONGER. If the Chair intimates that he did that, and, one-fi.ftli 

voted to second the calJJ that is all that is necessary. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. It was a simple announcement of the 

judgment of the Chair that one-fifth had voted to second the call . 

Mr. CONGER. In that case, that is all th;J.t is required. 

The PRESIDING O;FFICER. The yeas and nays are ordered, and 

the Secretary will call the roll. · . ·• 

The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. , 

Mr. GARLAND (when his name :was called). I am paired with the 

Senator from West Virginia [M:r. CAMDEN]. 

Mr. SAULSBURY {when his name was called). I am paired witli 

the Senator from Colorado [Mr.lii:LL]. 

The roll-call was concluded., 

lli. HAWLEY. I rose to vote'' nay." I am paired with the Sen.:. 

ator from Alabama [Mr . .MORGAN]; but I supposed he had entered the 

Chamber. · Mr. RANSOM. No; he is not here. 

Mr. HAWLEY. . Then I shall not vote. 

Mr. PLUMB. I am paired on this question with the Senator from 

Maryland [1\ir. GORMAN]. - .Mr. BOWEN. I wish to announce my pair with the Senator froni 

Arkansas [1\lr. WALl':ER] on the entire question. 

The result was announced-yeas 10, nays 21; as follows: 

Aldrich, Allison , Dolph, 

Bayard, Beck 

Bla.ir; 

Call, 

Cameron of Wis., 

Cockrell, 

Hale, Jackson, 

Mitchell, 

Conger, Edmunds, 

Groome, 

Hampton, 

Hhrrison, Hoar, 

Bowen, Frye, 

Brown, Garland, 

Butler, George, 

Camden, Gibson, 

Cameron of Pa. , Gorman, 

Chace, Harris, 

Coke, Hawley, 

Colquitt, Hill, 

YEAS-10. 

Morrill, 

Pike 

Platt: 

NAYB-21. 

Jo.Ras, 

Jones of Nevada, 

Pugh, 

Riddleberger, 

· Sawyer, 

.Slater, 

ABSENT--45. 

Lapham, 

Logan, 

Mcl\Iillan, 

McPherson, 

:Mahone, l\Ianderson, 

Maxey, 

1\liller of Cal., 

Cullom, Ingalls, 

Dawes, Jones of Florida, 

Miller of N.Y., 

Morgan, 

Fair, Kenna, Palmer, 

F~rley, Lamar, Pendleton, 

Sewell· 

Vapce, 

Vest, 

Wilson. 

Plumb, · Ransom, 

SabiR, 

Saulsbury, 

Sherman, 

VanWyck, 

Voorbees, 

Walker, 

Williams. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. 

tary will call the roll. 

The Secretary called the roll, 

No quorum having voted, the Secre- · 

and 44 Senators answered to their 

names. 

The PRESIDE~T pro tempore. Forty-four Senators are present. 

The- Secretary will again call the roll·on agreeing to the amendment proposed by the Senator from New Jersey [Mr. SEWELL]. 

Mr. SEWELL. As a number pfSenatorsareoftheopinion that sec- tion 13 covers the object I wish to arrive at, I ask unanimous consent 

to withdraw my amendment .. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from New Jersey asks 

leave to withdraw his amendment. Is there objection? The Chair hears none. The amendment is withdrawn. -

Mr. CALL. I now offer an amendment, on behalfoftheSenatorfroiii 

Mississippi [l\fr. GEqRG E], to come in as an additional section after sec-' 

tion 6 of the bill. It is the amendment I offered awhile ago, btit I 

could not then clearly indicate the plac~ in the bill where it should be 

inserted. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempm·e. The amendment will be read. 

The CHIEF CLERK. It is proposed to insert as a new section after 

section6: 

SEC. -. That in case any transportation company engaged as aforesaid shaJi 

do, suffer, or permit to be done any act, matter, or thing in this a-ct prohibited or forbidden, or shall.omit to do any act, matter, or thing in this act required to be done, or shall be guilty of any violation of the provisions of this act, such 

transportation company shall be liable to pay to the person or persons who may 

• 
• 

1252 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. FEBRUARY 4, 

be-injured thereby the amount of the damages so sustained and coste a.s pro- vided in the sixth section of this act, to be recovered by the person or persons so damaged by suit in United States court of competent juriSdiction where the 

transportation company causing such damage can be found, or may have an agent, office, or place of business; and if the court before which any such ac- tion is tried shall be of opinion that the violation of the law was willful, it shall 

make an allowance, by ·way of additional costs, to the party injured, sufficient to cover all his counsel and attorney fees. In any action to be brought a.s aforesaid in any court of the United States the court shall have all the power of a court of equity to compel discovery and the production of boo~s; documents, 

and papel'S. In any such action so brought any director, officer, receiver, or trustee of any company aforesaid, or any receiver, trustee, or person aforesaid, or any agent of any such company, receiver, trustee, or person aforesaid, or of 

any of them, alone or with any other -person or persons, party or parties, may and shall be compelled to attend, appear, and testify and give evidence; and no claim that any such testimony or evidence lnigbt or might not. tend to criminate 

the person testifying or giving evidence shall be of any avail, but such evidence or testimony shall not be used as against such person on the trial of any indict- ment against him. The attendance and appearance of any of the persons who ns aforesaid may be compelled to appear or testify, and the giving of the testimony or evidence by the same, respectively, and the production of books and 

po.pers thereby, may and shall be compelled the same as in the cas~ of any other witness; and in case any deposition or evidence, or the production of 

any books or papers, may be desired or required for the purpose of applyil6g 

for or sustaining any such action, the same, and the production of books and 

papers, may and shall be bad, taken, and compelled by or before any United 

States comlnissioner, or in any manner provided or to be provided for as to the 

taking of other depositiol)s or evidence, or the atte~dance of witnesses, or the 

production of other books or papers in or by chapter 17 of title"13 of theRevised Statutes of the United States. No action aforesaid shall be sustained un- less brought within one year after the cause of action shall accrue, or within one year after the party complaining shall have come to a. knowledge of his right 

of action. And as many causes of action as may accrue within the yea-r may be 

joined in the same suit or complaint. And any circuit or district court of the 

United States having jurisdiction of the persons shall h::we the power, upon application of any person or persons, firpl8, railroa-ds, or other corporations or as- fJOciations, alleging undue and unjust discrimination against a person in violation of the provisions of this act, to issue writs of mandamus against such per- son, commanding such person to move and transport" freight or to furnish facilities for transportation for the party applying for the writ, upon such terms and 

in such manner as shall seem just and proper to the court, in order to prevent 

any undue or unjust discrimination against the relator. The proceedings shall be as in other cases of mal).damus; and in cases of urgent nece sity or involving · the transpoJ;"tation of perishable goods the writs of alternative mandamus may be made returnable f01·thwith: Pro,·ided, That no writ or peremptory mandamus 

shall issue under this act until the relator shall have given security, in such sum as shall be named by the court, topaytbedefendanttheproperand legal charges for the services required to be performed by the writ aforesaid: An<l pro'Vi<led 

further, That the remedy herein given by writ of mandamus shall be cumulative, and shall not exclude or interfere with the other remedies herein provided. No cause brought under this act in any State court of competent jurisdiction shall be removed to any United States court. 

~ir. CALL. I merely wish to say that the amendment was prepared. by t.he Senator from Mississippi [Mr. GEORGE], and that I offer 

it at his request. .It is designed to furnish an affirmative ren;tedy to a person aggrieved by a violation of the act now proposed to be passed. 

Mr. CULLOM. I hope the ap1endment will not be agreed to. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment of the Senator from Florida. · Mr. CALL. I ask for the yea,s and nays. 

The yea.s and nays we1;e ordered; and the Secretary proceeded to call 

the roll. · 

Mr. SAULSBURY (when his name was called).· I am paired with 

the Senator from Colorado [Mr. HILL]. · 

The roll-call was concluded. 

Mr. PLUMB. On this question I am paired with the Senator from 

Maryland [Mr. GORMAN]. 

The result was announced-yeas 7, nays 38; as follows: 

Call, 

Coke, 

Aldrich, 

Allison, 

Blair, 

Cameron of Wis., Chace, . 

Colquitt, 

Conger, 

Cullom, 

Dawes, 

Dolph, 

l\Iaxey, 

Slater, 

YEA8-7. 

Vance, 

VanWyck, 

NAY8-3S. 

Edmunds, Lapham, 

Groome, McMillan, 

Hampton, l\I<:Pherson, 

Harris, . Manderson, 

Harrison, l\filler of Cal., 

Hawley, Miller ofN. Y., 

Ingalls, Mitchell, 

J"8.(!kson, Morgan, 

Jonas, . . 1\Iorrill, 

Jones of Nevada, Pike, 

ABSENT-31. 

Bayard, Fair, Hill, Beck, Farley, Hoar, 

Bowen, Frye, Jones of Florida, 

Brown, Garland, Kenna, 

Butler, George, Lamar, 

Camden, Gibson, Logan, Cameron of Pa., Gorman, :Mahone, 

Cockrell, Hale, Palmer, 

So the amendment was rejected. 

.vest. 

Platt, 

Pugh, 

Riddlebe1·ger, 

Sabin, . Sawyer, 

Sewell, 

Sherman, 

Wilson. 

Pendleton, 

Plumb, · Ransom, 

Saulsbury, 

Voorhees, 

Walker, 

Williams. 

Mr. CALL. .At the request Qf the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. 

GEORGE] I move to add, after line 22 of section 5, the following words: 

And such report shall in all proceedings under this aet be prima facie evidence 

of the existence of the faets therein found to be true. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempo-re. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment offered by the Senator from Florida. · "The amendment was rejected. 

Mr. CALL. Also, by request of the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. 

GEORGE], I move· to add, at the end of section 10, the· following: 

The said commission is hereby authorized to invoke the aid of a United States court of competent jurisdiction to compel the making of said reports; and if any 

company shall fail or refuse to make any report required of it as aforesaid. the 

said company shall .forfeit and pay for every such neglect or failure a. penalty ~ot less th~?-n Sl,.ooo, 3.!1d it and its. offic.ers shall be subject to Jlll the other penal- ties prescnbed m this act for .a v1olabon _of any of its provisions. The reports of each company shall be cerbfied under 1ts corporate seal to be correct in every 

respect, and_shall also be verified ):>Y the oaths of its president, secretary, treas- urer, and chief book-keeper; and 1f any report shall contain any statement willfully false, the affiants thereto shall be guilty of perjury, and on convictiou shall 

be subject to tliepains andpenaltics prescribed by law for s~ch offense. ' 

The PRESIDENT pro tempo-re. The ques~on is on agreeing to the. amendment offered by the Senator from Flonda. · Mr. SAULSBURY. Mr. President, that is anamendm.enttosection 

10, which requires the ~oad co_mpa.n.ies to make annual reports at 

the request of the commiSSioners. If Senators will look at the provisions of that section, I think they will see what embarrass~ent it 

may be to require those reports. I will read it. Section 10 provides: 

That the ?Ommission_is hereby o.u.th?rized to requiJ;e annual reports from all 

transp?rtat10n compa~es e~gaged m mterstate commerce, to fix the time and 

prescr1be t.he.manne~ m wh1eh such reports ~ball be made, and to requite from 

such compames specific answers to all questions upon whlch the commission 

may need information. Such an.nual reports shall show in detail the amount of capital stock issued and the amounts paid therefoib· the dividends paid· the 

number of stockholders; the funded and floating de ts and the interest 'paid thereon~ the cost and value ~f t_he company's property, franchises, and equipment, w1~h n. c?mplete descr1phon 9f the same; the number of employes and 

the salar1es pa1d each class; the aniounts expended for improvements each 

year and how expended; the monthly earnings and receipts from eMh branch 

of business and from nll sources; the monthly operating and other expenses· t~1e balances of profit and loss, and a complete exhibit of the finn.ncial opera~ tlons of the company each year. Such reports shall also contain such information in relation to rates or regulations concerning fares or freights, or agreements, ar~angements, or contracts with other companies, as the commission 

may reqmre. • 

I do not believe that t~e objects sought to be :1.ttained by the appointment of the commission can be aided in any way by the adoption of 

the tenth section. I can see very readily bow a report made in com- pliance with it, disclosing the whole business operations of a company: 

may operate to the injury of the company and may destroy their credit 

in the community. A new enterprise just struggling into existence 

may by such a report be not only crippled but utterly destroyed. ·I can understand very well how operators in stocks in Wall street may; 

desire to have this information. They could d~l perhaps with more safety, but I can not see that the objects sought by the bill can be aided 

in the leaSt· by such an expose of the private transactionS and business 

of a company. 

I am perfect~y willing to adopt any mea.sure tha~ will limit the powe:r 

of the companies to oppress the people, but I do not want to see the 

companies themselves unnecessarily oppressed or injured. I have no doubt there are a great many just complaints against these corporations! 

Perhaps some of the complaints which ru-e made are· merely ideal, but 

I have no doubt. that there are discriminations, that there are exorbitant prices chaJ;ged by some of the corporations, and that persons hav~ 

ing to use the railroads for the transportation of their freights and products are damnified and injured by the exactions of the companies. If 

we can devise any means to correct that or give any remedy whatever 

for the evJls which are justly complained of, I am here ready to do it: 

but I do not think our legislation ought to partake of a nature which 

will n~y oppress and injure the corporations themselves. While 

we should aim to do justice to shippers, we ought not to be unjust, iii 

my opinion, to those institutions upon which we are dependent for the 

transportation of persons and property. 

In faet I have but little faith that the bill will accomplish anything. 

What is it? It provides simply for the appointment of nine commissioners with high salaries, authorized to incur large expenses. They 

must a:q.d doubtless will incur expenses amounting to two or three 

hundred thousand dollars annually. What can they do and what is 

provided in the bill that they shall do? They are simply to bear coinplaints. They .. are to note down all the complaints which are made fu 

them and to investigate the nature of the complaints. If in the judgment of the commission the complaints are valip, what are they to do? 

.Are they to provide any remedy? Not a particle. All they are to do 

is to certify that fact to the district attorney. Then he goesrinto an in•estigation, and if he ascertains that any person ha.s been injured by 

discriminations or by extortion he is compelled, under the bill; at the 

instance of the party injured, to institute snit; but with the provision 

adopted on the motion of the Senator from Iowa [Mr. WILSON], which reserves to the party all his remedies under State law or under the com- mon law of the country, I should think that he would be a silly man who woul~ seek the remedypoin~ out in the bill when all the rig}lts 

and remedies that he nas are secured to ll.4n by the amendment offered 

by the Senator from Iowa to the fourteenth section. 1 am very sure there are few suits that will• be instituted under the provisions of the 

bill, and without suits originated by the district attorney there is no 

remedy secured ·under it to any person who has been damnified by the' 

injustice of a railroad company. 

I care -very little about the measure. If it ~ accomplish anything 

by its moral influence, as was suggested yesterday by the Senator from 

Ohio [Mr. SHERMAN),ifitis going to be armed with such potent moral 

influence that the corporations of the country will stand in awe.of it, it 

may be well enough; but I apprehend that that is a :fiction of fancy, 

and that the corporations will not stand in such holy horror of the com- , mission which is to be appointed that they will cease to do evil and 

learn to do well. , 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SE.iVATE. I 1253 

I say I care but little about the bill. I "should have -voted against 

thesubstitutionofthis bill forthe Reagan bill, which didfurnishsome 

remedy, and yet I was not so perfectly in love with that bill. Ifthere can b~ any measure devised that will operate to secure justice to the 

people interested in transportation by water or other_wise, I am per1ectly willing to see it tried. 

I deprecate this expense, but we are accustomed to large expenses in 

this country. We ha-ve had munero~ commissions. 'Ve bad a Mississippi Improvement Commission, ·and what has it amounted to? 

Verily in my opinion it has done no good. We have had various com- missions; we have rrt the present time a Civil Service Commission, and so far as I understand I do not know what good it has done. I do not 

lrnow what good it will do. For one, I do not hesitate to say that if I were President of the Unite_cl States, charged with the responsibility of 

administering the executive affairs of this Government, I would do it 

according to the dictates 'of my own judgment. I should not be a butcher and turn out every man who was in office. If he was a faithful, honest servant I would keep him there for a proper time at least, 

but I would not feel bound to take my political enemies and keep them 

forever in office simply because the Civil Service Commission might 

have made some rule that might require me to do it. If I were President of the United States and charged With. the duty of administering 

the executive department of this Government, I should dischatge it • according to the dictates of my own judgment and for the best interests of the people of the CO'\lntry. · We have had various commissions, and none of them has ever amounted to much. We had an Electoral Commission, the only effect 

of which was to deprive the people of this country of their choice for 

President of the United States. I have not much faith in commissions, nor have I much faith in the one here proposed. I do not think itwill 

amount to much; but if· the Senate of the United Sta~ see proper to 

adopt it, I have no objection. Ita moral influence, I apprehend, will 

not amount to much, and the legal remedies which the bill provides I 

think will not be sought by any person.damnified hythe.operations of 

railroad companies. 

Mr. CULLOM. I .only desire to say that I hope the tenth section 

will not be ~cken out, and to remind the Senate that according to the 

understanding we are to vote upon the main question at 3 o'clock today. . Mr. PLUl\ffi. I can not spare this opportunity to say a word or two 

to my friend from Delaware in regard to his •feeling about the Civil 

Service Commission. He asks, with some apparent anguish, what good 

has it done? I say to him that_thatwill be much more apparent after 

thirty days than it ever has been before to the ordinary Democratic apprehension. 

?t(r. CALL. I desire to know whether the understanding is to ex- clude amendments to the bill? 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It does not exclude amendments; it 

only excludes debate. 

Mr. :1\IAXEY. Before the vote is taken upon the passage of the bill 

it was my purpose to state at some length my reasons for favoring the 

House bill and for opposing the Senate proposition. I do not regard 

the Senate proposition as of any practical value whatever. On the con- trary, I believe that it will hereafter prevent the relief that is sought, 

and will not answer the grea~ public demand for legislation on thesnbj ect of interstate commerce. 'l'his measure has the appearance of being 

legislation on that subject, but is without any real, tangible, valuable 

effect of legislation. For that reason, as the vote is to be taken, and I 

have not time to speak, I shall vote against the bill when the question comes up on its passage. 

The PRESIDENT pro .tempore. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment proposed by the Senator from Florida. 

The amendment was rejected. 

Mr. CALL. At the end of section 14, on behalf of the Senator from 

Mississippi [Mr. GEORGE], I move to add: 

That jurisdiction is hereby conferred on the circuit courts of the United States to aid in a summary mauner the said commission in performing any duty imposed on them by this act. · 

The amendment was rejected. 

Mr. CALL. At the request of the Senator from 1lfissisSippi, I move to add as an additional section to the bill the following: 

SEC. -. That every person who,·being president, -vice-president, tlirector, 

superintendent, or general agentof'any transportation company, shall authorize, or concur in, or permit any violation of thi~ act shall be liable to the same penal- ties and subject to the same damages as are herein imposed on the transporta- tion company for such violation, and every such person may be joined as co- defendant with said company in any proceeding under this act, or may' be pro-· ceeded against separately, as the complainant may elect. 

The amendment was rejected. 

Mr. CALL. Also, by request of the Senator from Mississippi, I move to add at the end of section 4 the following: 

And proof that any trnnsportation company, in all cases where it shall also appear that such transportation company has issued or has not then canceled stock 

commonly known as watered, then a greater charge for a shorter distance than a longer one shall be tmju5t discrimination in the sense of this act. 

The amendment was rejected. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The questi.on is on concurring in the 

amendment made as in Committee of the Whole as amended. 

The a:tp.en~ent as amended was concurred in, as follows: Strike out 

all after the enacting clause of the bill and insert: 

That for the purpose of providing forihe regulation of commerce among the 

several States and Territories a commission is hereby created and established, to be known as the Interstate-Commerce Commission,which shall be composed of nine commissioners, who shall be appointed by the President, by aud with 

the advice and consent of the Senate, one of whom shall be selected from each 

judicial circuit of the United States. Three of the commissioners first appointed under this act shall continue in officeforterms of ~wo years, three for four years, and three for six years, the respective terms to be designated by the President; 

but their successors shall be appointed for terms of six years, except that any 

person chosen to fill a vacancy shall be appointed only for the unexpired te1·m 

of the commissioner whom he shall succeed. Any commissioner may be removed 

by the President for incompetency or malfeasance in office.· Vacancies oe<.-asioned 

by_ removal, 1·esignation, or other cause shall be filled by the President. And not more than five shall belong to the same political party. 

SEc. 2. That the commis!3ion hereby created shall have and exercise the pow- ers and discharge the duties defined and granted in this act pertaining to the 

methods and regulating the operation of all transportation companies engaged in interstate commerce, and to take into conside1·ation and to thoroughly investigate all the -various questions relating to commerce between the States, and 

especial1y in the matter of th-e transportation thereof, so t:u a5 may be nece <::ary to the establishment of a just system of regulations for the government f)( the M~ . 

SEc. 3. That if any transportation company engaged in interstate commerce shall collect, demand, or receive, in _the transaction of the business of interstate -commerce, more than a reasonable rate of compensation for the transportation of freight of any description, or Cor the receiving, deliYery, storage, or handling of prope.rty, or for the use or transport~tion of any railroad-car upon its railroa{l, or on any of the branches thereof, or upon any railroad it has the right, license, or permission to use, operate, or control, said t!ansportation company-shall be 

deemed guilty of extortion, which is herebydecla1·ed to be a misdemeanor. 

SEc. 4. That if any transportation company engaged in interstate commerce Shall, directly or indirectly, by any rebate, drawback, or other device, charge, demand, collect, or receive from any person a greater compensation for any 

service it may render in its transaction of interstate commerce than it charges, demands, collects, or receives from any other person for doing for him, in a like 

business and under substantially similar circumstances and conditions, contem- poraneously n. like service, or if any such transportation company shall neglect or refuse to furnish the same facilities for the carriage, receiving, delivery, stor- age, and handling of interstate-commerce freights to one pel'Son that is at the same time furnished to any other person for the cn.niage, receiving, delivery; 

storage, and handling of such freights of the same class, and under .substantially similar circumstances. such transportation company shall be deemed guilty of 

unjust discrimination, which is hereby declared to be a misdemeanor. 

SEc. 5. That whenever complaint is made to the commission, in such manner as it may prescribe, charging any transportation company engaged in interstate 

colDlllerce with extortion or unjust discrimination in the transaction of such 

business, a statement of the charges thus made shall be forwarded to the trans- portation company, which shall be called upon t-o satisfy the complaint or to answer the same in writing within a reasonable given time. 

If such transportation company shall, within the time specified, make repara- tion for the injury done and the complaint shall be withdrawn, the case shall be 

dismissed, and the transportation company shall be relieved of liability for any other penalty for the particular violation of this act thus complained of. 

If such transportation company shall not satisfy the complaint within the 

time specified, or if it shall neglect or refuse to answer the same as required, or if either party to the proceeding shall demand a hearing, and there shall appear to be any reasonable g~·ound for investigating said complaint, it shall be the 

-duty of the commission to invesfigate the matters complained of, to determine 

all questions of fact at issue, to record it$ finding, and to furnish a re}Jort thereof to both parties. . And if it shall appear that the transportation company has been. guilty of 

either extortion or unjust discrimination as charged, it shall be the duty of the 

commission to give notice to such ~mpany to discontinue the practice thereof 

forthwith, and to pay the complainant, within a. reasonable given time, the damages, if any, to which the commission may find the complainant justly entitled 

in consequence thereof. > 

And if such damages shall be pa1d as required, and the commission shall be 

satisfied that the transportation company has ceased to practice the extortion or unjust discrimination complained of, an order to that effect shall be entered of 

record by the commission, and the transportation company shall be relieved of 

liability for any other penalty for the particular act complained of. 

SEc. 6. That if any transportation company engaged in interstate commerce shall neglect or refuse to pay the damages assessed against it by the interstate com- merce commisSion, and to desistfrom the further violation of t1l.is act, it shall be 

the duty of the commission to certify the facts to the district attorney of the United 

States for the judicial district in which the act complained of occurred; and it 

shall be the duty of the distri41t attorney, at the request of the complainant, to forthwith commence such proceedings, in the name of the complainant, as may be necessary to recover any damages sustained by him, or to compel the trans- portation company to comply with the prqvisio11s of this act, or both i and the 

circuit .court of the United States for said district shall have jurisdiction to try said cause, without regard to the citizenship of the parties. Costs shall be 

awarded as in other cases; but in case judgment is rendered against the defendant, the court may, in its discretion, allow to the district attorney a reason- able fee for prosecuting said cause, to be taxed as part of the costs; and in case of failure to recover, the complainant shall pay the costs of suit, attorney's fees 

excepted. • • Any such transportation company that shall be convicted under the provis- ions of this act of either extortion or unjust discrimination shall forfeit and pay 

for each offense a. fine of not exceeding $1,000. 

Any such transportation company that. shall neglect· or refuse to make such. annual reports as the commission may require, or that shall neglect or refuse to answer any question or to produce any boo~tpaper, contract., or other document, or properly certified abstract thereof, caued for by the commission in 

making any investigation under the authority of this act, shall be deemed guilty 

of a misdeQJeanor, and, on conviction thereof, shall be fined in a sum not exceeding 51,000 for each offense he1·ein described. 

Any such transportation company or any pel'Son or persons that shall viola to any of the provisions of this act not in this section specified, or that shall in any manner attempt to obstruct the enforcement of its provisions, shall be deemed 

guilty of a misdemeanor. and, on conviction the1·eof, shall be fined in a sum not exceeding $1,000. 

SEc. 7 .. That each commissioner shall receive an annual salaryof$7,500. paya- ble in the same manner as the salaries of judges of the courts of the United 

States. The commission shall appoint a secretary, who shall receive an annual 

salary of $3,500, payable in lik(l manner. The commission shall have authority to employ and fix the compensation of such other employe13 as it may find nec- essary to the. proper performance of its duties, subject to the approYal of the 

Secretary of the Interior. All necessary traveling expenses incurred by the 

commissiqners, or by their employes under their orders, in making any investigation in any other place than in the city of \Vashington, sha.ll be allowed and 

paid on the approval by the Secretary of the Interior of itemized vouchers there· 
,..-J 

I 

1254 CONGRESSIONAL .. RECORD-SENATE. FE~RU.ARY 4, 

for. The colll.ttlission shall be furnished by the Secretary of the Interior with suitable offices and all nece sary office supplies. Witnesses summoned before the commission shall be paid the same f.ees and mileage that are paid to wit- nesses in the cou rt of the UnUed Stat~ .. All of the expepses of the commis- sion shall be paid on the presentation of vouc4ers approved by the president of the commi ion and by the Secr etary of the Interior. 

E C. • That the commission may make such orders as U may deem necessary for the regulation of its busine s, and prescribe the forms to be used therein. A majo t·ity of the commission hall constitute a quorum for the transaction of bJISi- ness, except as hereinafter prq>ided. 

SEC. 9. T h at in making any investigation required by this act the commission shall h Ye power to summon and require the at.tcnt!ance of witnesses, to admin- ister oa ths, and to require the production of all books, papers, contracts, an_!l 

documents, or· properly certified abstracts thereof. t·elating to the matter under investigation and necessary for the information of the commjssion in connection therewith. The commission is her&i.ly authorized to conduct inyestigationa. in such portions of the United States as it may deem necessary, and for tha.b pur- pose may delcga_te t.he powers conferred by this section to any mem bet· or mem- bers of the commission. 

SEC. 10. That the commission is hereby authorized to require annual reports from all transportation companies engaged in inte rstate commerce, to fix the time and prescribe the manner in which such reports shall be made, and tore- quire from such companies specific an. wers to all questions upon which the com- missibn may' need infonnation. Such annual reports shall show in detail the amount of capitnl stock issued and the amounts paid therefor; the ·dividends 

paid; the number of stockholders; the funded and floating debts and the in- terest paid thereon; the cost and value of the company's property, franchises, and equipme nt, with a. complete description of the same; the number of em-· ployes and the salaries paid each· class ; the amounts expended for impro>e- ments each year, and how expended; the monthly earnings and receipts from each branch of business and frop1 all sources; the monthly operating and other expenses; the balances of profft and loss. and a complete exhibit of the firu:m- cial operations of the company each year. Such reports hall also contain such information in relation to rates or regulations concerning fares or freights, or agreements, a1·rangemcnt , or contracts with other companies as the commis- sion may require. 

SJW. 11 •. That the commission shall, on or before the 1st day in December in each year, make a report to the S~cretaryof the Interior, which shall be by him transmitted to Congress, and copies of which hall be distributed as are the other report issued from the InteriOl' Department. This report shall contain such information and data collected by the oommission a·s may be considered of "value in the determination of q_ucstions connected w;th the regulation of inter- 'eta.te commerce, together with such recommendations as to additional legisla- tion for the regulation of interstate commerce as the commission may deem necedSSry. And said eommission shall precede its first report with an investigation of tho subject of interstate commerce, which shall embrac~ the subjects 

of-establishing a system of both maximum and minimum charges for transportation, and for the preservation of free competition within t.he limits so fixed; for the prohibition of discriminations of any kind whatever either in faY or of or against cities, towns, or other localities, whether the same be competing or non- competing points, and for applying ~he same principle to tran portation for in- dividual , firms, associations, or corporations in aU matters relating to com- merce among the States; for the preservlltion and enforcement of the righl;of 

shippers to select the lines and parts of lines over which their shipments shall pass, to the end that said commerce among the States may avail itself of the a.lf-rail or part-rail and part-water routes of ~he country; for the prevention of such pooling arrangements and agreements to refrain from just competition as· may tend to impose unreasonable burdens upon said commerce among the States, and for the protection of said commerce a.,<YRinst unjust exactions based on a class of securities commonly denomin~:~.ted "watered stock;" and said commission, in conducting said investigation, shall be guided by such rules of action as will be fair, just, and equitable toward all of the interests involved, 

whether the same be pri>ate, public, or corporate, connected wit.h the subject of cmnmerce among the States. 

SEC. 12. That the ro\1te of any transportation company engaged in the inter- state-commerce shall include all the railroad and water·routes in use by such company, whether owned by said company or used by it under license, lease, or permission otherwise given. And it shall be m1lawful for any transportation compa-ny as aforesaid to enter into any combination, contract, or agreement, 

expressed or implied, to prevent, by change of time-schedule, carriage in differ- ent cars, or by other means or devices, tlte carriage of interst.ate commerce freights from being continuous from the place..ofsbipment to the place of desti- -nation, whether said freight is carried ou one or several railroads, or partly by rail and partly by vessel. And no break of bulk, stoppage, or interruption made by said transportation company shall prevent the carriage of any interstate com- merce freights from being and being tt·eated as one continuouil carriage ft·om the place of shipment to the place of dC3lination, unless such break, stoppage, or interruption w;1s made in good faith f01· some necessary purpose, and with- out any inte nt to avoid or unnecessarily interrupt such continuous carriage or to eYade any of the pro,·isions of this act .. 

SEc. 13. That the t erm "tl-ansportation company engaged in interstate com· mercc," as n§!ed in this act, shnll be deemed anti taken to mean any corpora- tion , company, or indh·idualuow owning, operstiug,or using any railroad or l"ailroads, or any v~el or vessels, in wl10lc or in part, which at·e 1·un by or for any railroad company, making pat·t of ils ronte,or tltat may have the right, 

license, or permission to operate, use, or control any railroad or raih·oads, or any vessel or vessels, in whole or in part, provided said corporation, company, or individual is engaged in the IJusiuess of trall.''lporting freights or propet1.y of any description by raih·oad, ot· partly by raih;pad nnd partly by water, from one State into another State or Territory of the United Slates," ot· from any Terri- tory into any State or any otltcr Territory;" aml the J2rovisions of this act shall apply to all persons, firms, and companies, and to all associations of persons or companies whether incorporated or not, and to all associations of corpora- tions engaged in thus tranSJ?Ort.iug freights or property of any description, in the manner above set forth, from one State int.o any other State orTerrit"()ry, or from any Territory into any State or any other Territory. 

SEc. 14. That the provisions of this act shaH be construed as applicable to all railroad or transportation· companies engaged. in the carrying of freight from any place in the United States through any fot·eign territory to any other place in the United States, or from anyplace in the United States to any place outside the United States: PrCYV-ided, That this shall not apply to transportation wholly 

by water. 

SEc. 15. That the sum of ..,90,000 is hereby appropriated for the use and pur- poses of this act for the fiscal year ending· June 30, A. D.l885, and the intervening tlme anterior thereto; and it is expressly prQvided that no pending litiga- tion between railroad companies shall in any way be affected by this act. . 

. SEC. 16. That nothing in this act contained shall be held to require any person, aggrieved 'by the act or omission of a transportation company within the pro- visions of this act, to pursue the remedy provided in sections 5 and 6 her~f for tbe RBcertainment a.nd recovery of damages on account thereof; but such per- son may, by civil action in any court of competent jurisdiction, maintain an twtion as though this act had not been passed; and in such cases the duties, olr ll::ationw, liabilities, and re;wonsibilities of such transport-ation company in aU 

. ( 

respects shall be the samea.s though said action had be~n commenced in pursu· anee of the remedy in said se~tions 5 and G provided. · 

The amendment was ordered to be engrossed, and the bill to be read 

a third time. 

The bill was reml the third time. . The PRESIDENT pro tempo're. The bill having been. read three 

times, the question is, Shall it pass? 

Mr. COK~. I ask for the yeas and nays on the passage· of the bill. 

The yeas and nays were ordered, and the Secretary proceeded to call 

the 1·oll. - · 

:Mr. CAM.ERO~, of Pennsylvania (when his name was called). I am paired with the ~enutor from California [Mr. FARLEY]. If he were present, I should vote ''yea." I do not know how be would vote. 

Mr. FRYE {when his name was caUed). I am paired with the 

junior Senator from Louisiana, [Mr. GIBSoN], who is detained from the 

Senate by sickness in his family, but I am informed by his colleague 

[Mr. JoY AS] that he would probably vote as I my.selfwould, and therefore I shall vote. I vote "yea." 

Mr. GARLA.i~D (when his name was called). I am paired with the 

Senator from West Virginia [Mr. CAMDEN)- If he were here, I should 

vote ''nay '' and I believe he would vote 'yea.'' 

Mr. PALMER (when his name was called). I am paired with the 

Senator from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIAMS]. If he were here, I sho.uld 

vote'' yea.'' . , · Mr. RANSOM (wbe'n his name was called). I am paired~with the 

Senator from Illinois [Mr. LOGAN]. If be were here, I should vote 

"nay." 

The roll-call was concluded. 

Mr. BECK. I am paired with the Senat{)r from Maine [1\ir. HALE], 

who is absent. I should vote '' nay '' if be were heTe. 

l\Ir. SADIN (after having voted in the affirmative). I have .been 

paired with the Senator from West Virginia [Mr. KENNA], but I voted 

supposing that he was present this morning. As I see he bas not voted, 

I ask leave to withdraw :JilY vote. 

ThePRESIDENT pro tempore. Thevot.e will be withdrawn if there 

be no objection. 

Mr. SABIN. I should vote "yea .. " if the Senator from ·west Virginia were present, and he would vote "nay." · The result was announced-:yeas 43, nays 12; as follows: 

Aldtich, 

Allison, 

Blair, 

Call, 

Cameron of Wis., 

Chace, 

Conger, 

Cullom, 

Dawes, 

Dolph, 

Edmunds, 

Bayard, 

Butler, 

Cockrell, 

Frye, 

Groom e .- Hampton, 

Harris, 

Harrison, 

Hawley, 

Hill, 

Hoar, Ingalls, 

J!;lckson, Jonas, 

Coke, Colquitt, 

l\IcPherson, 

Beck, Farley, 

Bowen, Garland, 

Brown, George, 

Camden, Gibson, Cameron of Pa., Gorman, 

Fair, Hale, 

. So the bill was passed. 

YEA.S-43. 

Jones of Florida, Jones of Nevada, 

Lamar, 

Lapham, 

l'lfclllillan, 

Manderson, 

Miller of Cal., . 1\liller ofN. Y., 

1\lltehell, 

1\Iorrill, 

Pike, 

NAYB-12. 

l'llaxey, . Morgan, 

~endleton, 

ABSENT-21. 

Kenna,: Logan, 

Mahone, 

Palmer, 

Ransom, 

Sabin, 

Platt, Plumb, 

Pugh, 

Riddelberger, 

!Sawyer, 

Sewell, 

Sherman, 

Slater, 

Vest, 

Wilson. 

Sauisoury, 

Vance, 

VanWyck. 

Voorhees, 

Walker, · Williams. 

AMENDMENT TO INDIAN APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Ur. McMILLAN submitted an amendment intended to be proposed 

by him to the Indian appropriation bill; which was referred to the 

Committee on Appropriations and ordered to be. printed. 

HOUSE BILL REFERRED. 

The bill (H. R. 691) for the relief of William W. Thomas·wM read 

twice by its title, and referred to the Committee on Finance. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

The PRESIDENT pro temP.Qr£. It is ~he duty of the Chair now tolay 

before the Senate the next special order, being Order of Business 336. 

The title of the bill will be read. 

The CHIEF CLERK. A bill (H. R. '3933) to declare a forfeiture of 

lands granted to the Texas Pacmc Railroad Company, and for other purposes. . The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The bill is before the Senate as in 

Committee of the Whole. 

1\fr. :MORRILL. I move that the Senate proceed to the consideration of House bill 4976, heretofore reported by the Committee on Fi- nance. The PRESIDENT pr.o tempore. The Senator from Vermont moves that the Senate now proceed to the consideration of Order of Business 

1074, being the bill (H. R. 4976) for the retirement and recoinage of 

the trade-dollar. · Mr. BLAIR. 1\Ir. President- · The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The motion is not debatable. 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--- SENATE. 1-255 

1\Ir. BLAIR. I ask unanimous consent to niake a statement before 

the question ia taken. 

The PRESIDENT .pro tempor-e. The Senator from New Hampshire 

asks unanimous consent to make a statement on the pending question.. 

Is there objection? The Chair hears none. The Senator from New 

Hampshire will proceed. · Mr. BLAIR. It will be recollected by the Senate that at the close 

of the last session the Senate was engaged in the consideration of House 

bill 2550, Calendar No. 863, entitled ''A bi)l to prohibit the import:ltion and migration of foreigners and aliens under contract or agreement 

to perform lab9r in the United. States, its Territories, and the District 

of Columbia.'' It was postponed, after being partially considered, until 

the 9th of December last, and I anticipated that at that time it would 

be di&i_)osed of. It was interfered with by various special orders, and 

from that day until the pre ~nt time, although it came ·over substantially in the form of unfinished business from the last session, I have 

been seeking an opportunity to have it laid before the Senate and disposed of. It is a bill in which there is a very great public interest. 

During the interim from the 9th of December to the present time several of the Legislatures of the States have passed resolutions calling th~ 

attention of the Sehate to this bill and urging action upon it, and many 

memorials have been sent to the Senate and to the other House of Congress, although the bill h3s already been passed by the othe; House, 

asking that the question be disposed of. I hope, now that the last 

month has been occupied by the interstate-commerce bill, which really 

ought not to have come in the way of this at all, as I think,. that the 

Senate will consent to take up this bill and dispose of it. The bill 

urged by the Senator from Vermont may be an important bill; undoubtedly it·wm be 'dispo ed of; the Committee on Finance can always 

have this floor; but I submit that justice to the friends of this measure requires that it should be now considered. · l\fr . .UORRILJJ. I think I am in favor of the Senator's billThe PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The motion is not open to debate._ Does the Senator from Vermont ask unanimous consent? .Mr. MORRILL: I do, for a moment. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Vermont UBks 

unanimous consent that he may be heard on t4is question. Is there 

objection? The Chair hears none. The Senator from Vermont will 

proceed. 

Mr. MORRILL. It was the understanding when the bill in regard 

to silver coinage was reported -that it should be considered yesterday 

morning. On account of the prolongation of the debate on the inter-. state-commerce bill, which has _progressed until this time, it was not 

so considered. :t suggest to the Senator from New Hampshire that he 

call up his bill to-mm~w morning in the morning hour, as I think it 

will not attract much debate. I must insist on my motion. 

Mr. BLAIR. ·I think ther~ are several bills that are alreadyThe PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from New Hampshire asks unanimous consent? 

l\Ir. BLAill. I would not like the suggestion of the· Senator from 

Vermont to go with the idea that I acquiesced in it .. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from New Hampshire ask unanimous consent to be heard? · 

l\Ir. BLAIR. Yes; unless the consent already given·covers that. 

The PRESIDENT p-i'o tempore. The Chair does not think it covers 

further remarks. The Senator from New Hampshire asks unanimou 

consent to be heard again on this question. Is there ohjection? The 

Chair hears none. 

_ Mr. BLAIR. Thanking the Senate for its indulgence, I wish simply 

to say that the morning hour, as I understand, is already occupied by one or more bills, the friends of which understand that they have the 

right of way, and whatever may have been the understanding lately 

arrived at in regard to this bill which the Senator from Vermont moves to take up at this time, much earlier understandings were arrived at 

between the friends of thi."' measure and of the interstate-commerce 

bill and one or two others, that it should be heard so far as their assist- ance could enable it to receive a hearing as soon as the interstate-com- merce bill was disposed of. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the motion of the 

Senator from Vermont [1\fr. MoRRILL]. 

Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. I ask nnanimous consent of the Senate that I may put a q·uestion to my friend from Vermont. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Wisconsin asks 

unanimous consent to be heard on this question. Is there objection? The Chair hears none. . M:r. CAMERON, ofWisconsin. I will include in that request that 

he };lave unanimous consent to answer my question. The question is 

whether he intends, if his motion be carried, to press the bill until it 

is finally disposed of by the Senate, or whether ·he desires to have it 

brought up now simp1y for the purpose of submittina some remarks in 

support of the bill? o . 

Mr. MORRILL. Oh, 1\-Ir. President, I do not- . The PRESIDENT pro tempm·e. If there be no objection the Senator 

from Vermont will proceed. The Chair hears none. Mr. MORRILL. I am ready to subxcit some remarks, but I assure the 8-mator that I shall not occupy a large amount of time-not more 

than twenty-five or thirty minutes. It has never been my habit tc be 

advocating a bill that I do not ihtend to press. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to the 

motion of the Senator from Vermont. 

1\-Ir. VANWYCK. May I inquire what is the special order, .b!r. .President? 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The sJTecia1 order is Order of Busi- ness 336, being the bill (H. R. 3993) to declare a forfeiture of lands 

granted to the Texas Pacific Railroad Company, and for other purposes. 

Mr. VAN WYCK. . May I be allowed to put a question? I should 

like to ask a question of the Senator from Yermont. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the ~enator 

from Nebraska m;iking remarks? 

Mr. M:ORRILL. I object to further debate on this motion. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair hears no objection. 

1\Ir. VAN WYCK. Does the Senator seriously object t"·a question· 

being prqpounded to him at this stage of the matter ~ -

11Ir. MO~RILL. I said, although it was not heard by the Chair, 

that I objected to further debate at this time. 

Mr. VAN WYCK. Do you object to my asking a question? 

1\Ir. MORRILL. Not at all. . 

The PRESIDENT pro tempare. Senators will please address the Chair. 

The Chai.F asketl _for objection and. heard none. The Senator from Nebraska is entitled to the floor. 

Mr. VAN WYCK. I desire merely to ask the Senator from Vermont 

whether the bill now proposed to be taken up is a House bill or a Senate ·bill. · 

Mr. MORRILL. A House bill. 

Mr. VAN WYOK. But entirely.changed and remodeled by the_ report of the Senate committee. Then I merely want to appeal, if I am 

in order, to the Senate to remember that there is now before us in order 

the Texas Pacific forfeiture bill, which has been lying here a long time, 

a matt.er of great impm;tance1 and I trust ·that it having been made 

special order by a vote of two-thirds of the body, it will not now be displaced by a majority vote. . The PRESIDEI\TT pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to th_e 

motion of the Senator from Vermont [Mr. MoRRILL] that the Senate now prOceed to consider the trade-:dollar bill, so called. 

:Ur. UO_RRILL. I ask for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered; and the Secretary proceeded to call 

the roll. · . Mr. FRYE (when his name was called). !"am paired with the Senator from Louisiana (Mr. Grns<JN}. 

The roll-call having been concluded, the res~lt was announced-yeas 

37, nays 21; as follows: . 

Aldrich, 

Bayard 

Beck, 

~owen , 

Cameron of Pa., 

Chace, 

Gorman, · Groome 

Hampton, Hawley, 

Hoar, 

Jackson, 

' YEAS-37. 

McPherson, 

Mahone, 

l\liller of N.Y., 

Mitchell, 

1\lox:gan, 

Colquitt, 

Conger, Jones of Florida, 

Lamar, 

1\Iorrill, 

Palmer, 

Pendleton, ·Dawes, 

Dolph, 

Blair, 

BuUer, 

Call, 

t)ameron.of Wis., 

Oockrell, 

Coke, 

Lapham, 

McMillan, 

Edmunds, 

Garland, 

Harris, 

Harrison, 

Hill, 

Inga-lls, 

Allison, Farley, . Br6wn, Frye, 

Camden, George, Cullom, Gibson, 

Fair, Hale, 

Platt, 

Pugh, 

NAY8-21. 

Jones of Nevada, 

1\Iaxey, 

Miller of Cal., Pike, 

Plumb, 

Sawyet·, 

ABSENT-18. 

Jopas, Kenna, 

Logan, 

?\'!anderson, 

Voorhees, 

So the motion was agreed to. 

COL~ AGE OF SIL VEB DOLLARS. 

Ransom, 

Rjddleberger, 

Sabin, 

Saulsbury, 

Sewell, 

Sherman, 

Vance, 

Slater, 

VanWyck, 

Vest. 

'Valker, 

Williams, 

Wiliou. 

The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, proceeded to consider· the 

bill (H. R. 4976) for the retirement and recoinage of the trade-dollar. · The bill was reported from the Committee on Finance with an amendment to strike out all after _the enacting clause and insert: 

That until July 1, 1885, United States trade-dollars, if not defaced, mutilated, or st-amPed, shall be received at the office of the Treasurer or any assistant tre4S~ 

urer of the United States in exchange far alike amo~t, dollar for dollar, of stand: 

a.rd silver dollars ofthe United Stat~. · _ f 

SEC. 2. That the trade-dollars received by the Treasme-.or any assistant treas~ 

urerof the United States shall not be paid out or in any other manner issued, but, at the expense of the United States, shall be transmitted to the coinage mlnts and 

shall be regarded and treated as silver bullion, and, at their bullion value, shall 

be deducted from the amount of bullion required to be purchased and coined by the act of February 28,1878, and shall be recoined into standard silver dollars ac-• cording to the. provisions of said act: .PrO'Vided, That the amount to be so d~ducted 

as provided in this section shall not exceed $500,000 in any month. ' 

SEc. 3. That all laws and parts of laws authorizing the coinage and is.s.mnce 

of United States trade-dollars a.re hereby repealed. - SEC. 4. That the President is hereby authorized to renew negotiations with 

the states of the "Latin Union," and with other foreign powers, for the purpose of making treaties with 'fhem in Qrder to secure such co-operation as may enable the nations agreeing thereto to open their 1·espective mints to the free 

coinage of silver, with full legal-tender power, at an agreed ratio to golll. 
1256 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD_;,:_SENATE. FEBRUARY 4, 

SEc. 5. That in case no such treaties as aforesaid shaJI have been made and ing-pot, and that none· can or wili be Tetm'Iled. If, however, more of 

raW1ed prior to August 1, 1886, then and thereafter so much of the act of Feb- these should be unearthed or be brought here frQm Oriental nations 

ruary 28, 1878, entitled ".An act t~ authorize the coinage of the standard silver .c:or redempti"on than what 1..~~ been estim' at~-", t~e cost "of the measure dollar and to restore its legal-tender character," as authorizes and directs the ~· .l.lll\'3 ~ 

Secretary of the Treasury to purchase from timetotime.ofsilver bullion,atthe will be correspondingly increased. It will be observed that, however . market price thereof, not less than two million dollars' worth per month nor lame may be the amount presented to the Treasury, the purchase of more than four million dollars' worth per month, and cause the same to be ~ coined into such dollars mopthl1 as f.'lst as so purchased, shall be suspended. silver bullion is not to be suddenly interrugted, and will b~ only tem-

:Mr. ING A.LLS. I mo-ve to amend the amendment of the committee porarily diminished monthly to the amount of $500,000. 

by striking out section 5. The next amendment to the House bill proposed by the Committee 

.Mr. MOR~ILL. I suppose the Senator from Kansas may move that on Finance, it will be seen, contemplates a renewed effort to obtain by 

amendment, though it is not exacUy in order now, as I have the .floor concert with the Latin Uriion nations, as well as with others, a larger 

1 believe. · . . use of silYer on a fixed and common rfl,tio with gold. It may not be 

1\lr. IN: GALLS. I was recognized, I thought, by the presiding officer. improper for me to say that a most unfounded imputation has been inJ.fr. MORRILL. I do not object. . . . . dulged by-some parties that the members of the former monetary com~ The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. HARRIS in the chair). The Sen- mission were not sincere in the purpose to accomplish the object of their 

. a tor from Kansas aroBe and was recognized by the Ch~ir, and the amend- mission, but the only refutation which the false suggestion requires is 

mentis ceftainly in or<ler at this time, the Senator having the floor. to bring to our recollection the names of the i~dividuals of which that 

The amendment proposed by the Senator from Kau as to the amend- important commission was composed, na,mes as muc}l distinguished for 

ment will be read. fidelity to their country as for their personal purity and ability. 

The CHIEF CLERK. The amendment is to strike out section 5 of the It is again sometimeS recklessly suggested that the official adminis· 

proposed amendment, as follows: · trators of the Treasury Department have not given silver dollars a fair 

SEc. 5. That in case no such treaties as aforesaid shall have been made and chance to circulate or to obtain a foothold among our people. And yet 

ratified prior to August 1, 1886, then and therea.fter so much of the act of Febru- it is the fact that the Tre.:'lSury Department-has paid, and bas ever been 

n.ry 28, 1878, entitled "An act to authorize the coinage of the .s(andal·d silver dol- ready tOJlay~ the cost of the trGnsportation of silver to any and to all the 

Jar and to restore its legal-tender character," as authorize and directs the Sec- remote. t regions of our country whenev~r and wherever it was wanted.' 

retary of the Treasury to purchase from time to time of silver bullion, at the 'ffi l · h ,._ h' h h "b d ' · market price thereof, 11ot less than two ·million dollar ' worth per month nor The d1 en ty LS t e same as tua.t W lC pursues t e a penny;' It 

more than four million dollar ' worth pe1· month, a.nd cause the same to be will retu.rn. The people have. not been ready to receive or to hold it: 

coined into such dollars monthly as fast as so purchased, hall be suspended. To show how unjust and groundless this suggestion is we have only to 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is. on the amendment comp~re tbe present outstanding circul.n.tion of the silver dollar with 

proposed by the Senator from Kansas to the amendment reported by that in our previous history. In ejghty-five years, or np to 1878, the 

the Committee on Finance. whole amount of silver dollars coined at our· mints was only $8,045,838,' 

1\Ir. l\IORRIJ;L. 1\Ir. President, let me ay at once that the amend- and the amount in circulation must have been far less. Since 1878 we 

· ments proposed bythe Committee on Finance to the bill under consid- have coined the immense sum of $191,947,1.94, and have got into cirerationareaccepted bymeon the idea that it is the duty of Congress to .cnlation, accordin"g to the Director of the int, 41,350,040, or about 

take some immedia'te action upon the S"Q.bjects here presented. More five times as mach as was eYer coined in all our previous history. .If 

heroic remedies, as I believe, would be more salutary; but·if any legis- this does not show a p1lShing and industrious zeal on the part of tlie 

lation is to be accomplished at the present session some deference must Treasury Department to get the silver dollar into circulatio~ I know 

be paid to the conflicting opinioos pere and el'5ewhere prevailing, and not what would. . . . 

the Committee on Finance have reached the conclusion that the House It is evident that all of om people prefer a paper. currency, if it is 

bill, as it ·has been proposed :to be amended, should receive the support only the equal of our standard coins. It is far more convenient, as the 

of even those Senators who may not be completely satisfied with the whole commercial world have ascertained, and the whole world, there~ 

original bill or with cv~ry p:ut of the amendments. fore, has not suddenly changed its habits, notwithstanding the overInstead of indulging in elabora tc argu,men ta lion, I shall group as com- sanguine expectations of the promoters of the silver bill of 1878, who 

pactly as I c:.m the main fucts which sttrrouml the subject in band, trust- were unquestionably honest in their . zeal, and who will be ready to 

· ing that the e faets may have that influence which their cogency may claim that it has accomplished a great and important service. Cer7 seem to demand, and no more. For my own pn.rt I confess that I do not tainly no one has ever pretended that it could be successful without t~e 

feel that the Government of the United States is under the slightest legal co-operation of other nations, and it should not be charged to these 

or moral obligation to redeem the silver coin known as the trade-dollar. friends of bimet.tllism that they intended an insidious measure to sepIt originated solely from a supposed d~and for export, and 'vas stamped a.rate the United States from the great commercial' nations of the world 

under the act of February 12, 1873, as containing 420 grains of silver, by fastening upon us the silver standard of monometallism. 

andatthattimewas equal to 118.6 cents in United States notes or 102.5 . It is true that there are some obstaeles in the way o( obtaining aeoncents in gold. It is true that by some inadvertence it happened to be current agreement among foreign nations for a larger use of silv~r, but 

included as a legal tender by the coinage act of 1873, the same as sub- apparently nQt so great as heretofore, and, if the present bill should besidiary silver coins, to the. extent· only of $5 for three years, or until come a law, I have no question but what the coming administ.ration 

J nly 22, 1876, when even its limited legal-tender character was repealed. would eudea vor to carry it out in absolute good faith. 

Up to that time the whole amolUlt ~ned was $15,418,450. About this It is the opinion of our Director of the Mint, a thorough-going silve~ 

time silver began t{) depreciate in value, and United States notes had so ad vocate, that our efforts t6 .obtain the. co-operation of foreign nations 

much appreciated that a paper dollar was worth more thana trade-dollar. would be considerably aided if the coinage of the silver dollar were to 

Speculators, therefore, carried silver bullion to the mints and ex chang¥ 'be suspended in ad vance of any mission in that direction, instead of 

the same for trade-dollars, not for export, but for the purpose of proti.t, making the suspension contingent, to take effect, if to take effect at an; 

if not of fraud, so that the amount coined in the fiscal years of 1877 and in August, 1886'. I should concur in this opinion, for the reason that · 1878was over$20,000,000, swelling the total amount to $35,959,~60. such a suspension on our part would bring the question to bear upon 

The ,Government, being paid for barely the cost of coinage, never had Europe at once, and much more sharply than upon America, and selfany interest o.r profit in the trade-dollars, never received them at. the preservation would be likely to ~duce early co-operation in the direcTreasury nor p~d them out, but furnished them only to parties who tion of a permanent and common use of both silver and gold throughostensibly wanted them in this form to take silver bullion out of the out the great commercial nations of the ·world. 

country and as a special favor to silver miners. Somebody blundered. I do not wish to be underatood as conceding that the co-()peration of 

There are supposed to be from se.ven to ten millions of these trade-dol- even many nations would add to the value of silver anything more than 

Iars now held by ·our own people, partly by those who ha.ve.recei ved them wou}(l naturally arise from an increased demand. If the supply ever at full value and partly by those who have received them in barter largely ex-ceeds the demand, the intrinsic value for commercial purposes trade, or who, as brokerS, harve purchased them at a discount. But must go down. Neither law nor sentiment, under such circumstances, 

however held, whether helplessly and hopelessly or otherwise, our will permit silver to escape the universal law of trade. But I am willing 

mints were left open for the" birth and three years' growth ofthis pub- to attempt some arrangement ·with other nations, and do believe that 

lie nuisance, and perhaps some mode for its removal should be provided. a wider demand might thereby be cr-eated for the use of silver. 

I would have preferred to have paid a very moderate premium abo""e I would by no means be an alarmist, and while even with our pres- their bullion value as was recommen~e<l by the President, and thus to ent laws in force we might not fall upon silver coin alone as the standtake them out of ~e way~ rather than t{) redeem. them, as is now pro- ard of the money of the United States in the present year, possibly not 

posed, with what must be to the owners practically equivalent to an in the next, yet the fixed line we are now pursuing, it must be admitexchange ~ollar for dollar in gold. Some. of these holders of the trade- ted by all, leads in the end, whether near or remote; to no other possidollar are entitled to charity, but any discrimination is hardly :QOssible. ble result· .A calamitous harvest, a failure of thewheator cotton crop, 

To reach one we are forced to reach many. TP.ey have held this a nom- or the dreaded presence of some pestilence, might bring the disaster 

alous coin for a long time and at some inconvenience. It is for Con- on us speedily, in spite of our considerable power of resistance. Whengress to decide whether any relief shall be given or not. I bave, with ever our foreign exchange shall call for large shipments of gold, our re- ome reluctance, consented to the measure in order to relieve the conn- sources to maintain both the gold and silver standard will be put to a by from at .least one of the embarrassing incidents which surround the . crucial test. 

silver question. It ;is plain that the law of 1878, by which we have purchased silver 

It is proper to saythattheDirectorofthe Mint is very confident that . bullion to the amount of not less than $2,000,000 nor more than 

t.he trade-dollars which were exported have mainly gone into the melt- $4,000,000 per month, has not sustained the price of silver, and so far as 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 1257 

that was the object it has been a disastrous failure. The price of silver, 

United States standard, per ounce, February28, 1878, was 108.76 cents, 

and the price January 10, 1885, was 98.64 cents, f?howing that a decline had followed the silver statute of over 10 cents per ounce; and 

the intrinsic value of the sil\er dollar January 10, 1885, was only 84.77 

cents. This policy has turned out to be of no benefit to our silver 

mines, while it is full of evil omens to all other interests of our 

counb·y. 

Upon the disco>ery of Am.erica, and the large increase of the product 

of silver, its rela.tive value was immensely diminished. According to 

Humboldt the proportion of gold and silver, which before the discovery was as 10 to 1, gradually changed to 16 to 1. The recent much 

larger increase of sil>er is most likely to make history repeat itself. 

The vast recent increase of iron and of copper has reduced the price to 

the amount of one-third or one-half of their fo1·mer value, and silver 

·will hardly escn.pe the fate of other metals. 

But it is said, and not in the way of jest, that if we had only coined 

sil\er dollars to the maximum limit of the law of 1878, or fonT millions per month, the price of silver would have immediately advanced. 

That i , if we had bought the whole product of our silver mines, and , orne millions more, and hoarded it, the Lord knows where, then with 

little or no silver in tile market the price would have been greatly 

augmented. A similar ingenious policy might find some fa>or with 

the owners of copper a.nd iron mines, lmt none of them ha>e hitherto 

ventured to suggest it. 

It may be said that there are no breakel'. ahead, and that ma.'lterly 

inactivity is the true policy. Every business man in the country knows 

that the .first moment any considerable difference in value shall appear 

in commercial transactions between gold and silver, or when gold shall 

command a premium, that moment a grea.t contraction will follow; gold 

will disappear, and the business of the country will be conducted without it. · The net gold in the Treasury, deducting gold certificates, November 

1,188:3, was$158,039,000, and on J<muary 29, 1 85, it had been reduced 

to$129, 700,000. Thus, while gold in the Treasury appears to diminish, 

the receipts are also diminishing in large measure. Nothing but gold was formerly used in the ]awful payment pf duties on imports, but it 

is now far otherwise. In six months, from J tlly to December of 1883, 

inclusive, the receipts for customs at the port of New York of gold and 

gold certificates were $54,114,000; but the receipts for the same months 

in 1884 in gold and gold certificates were only $22,268,000, while the 

entire receipts from customs at that port (where three-fourths of the revenue from customs is collected) for the same period were 64,094,000, 

showing that but a little more than one-third was actually paid in gold 

or its equivalent. 

Should any such diminution of receipts in gold go on for any lengthy 

eriod, it is manifest that the Treasury would ha>e not much left but 

silver and silver certificates. As yet the gold has not gone out of the 

country and is supposed to be held here, though not by the Treasury. 

Gold that would come into the country is easily intercepted by bills of 

exchange and used abroad, especially when the rate of interest is higher 

in London than it is in New York. 

There has been only a slight contraction of the currcney by nationnl 

banks, because the·receipts for the present fi cal year have fallen off, 

and it is estimated will be less than Just year, and for the past three 

months, therefore, none of the 3 per cent. bonds appear to have been 

called for or paid. 

It is sometimes rather triumphantly said that large sums of gold have 

been depo~ited in the Treasury in exchange for silver certificates, but 

this only pro>es that·the depositors fully understood that the Government would never be in a condition to 1orce the payment of such cer- tificates in silver, and that all of them ultimr.tely must :find their way 

into the Treasury on the par of-gold in the payment of duties. 

The Latin nations have kept silver on a par with gold by a limitation of its coinage or by ceasing to coin it in excess. .AJJ.y occasional 

surplus has to be gathered up and held, as is done by the Bank of 

France; but then the French Government does not keep its mint con- stantly at work glutting the market. 

If ~e can make an arrangement with other nations, or if we were to cease for some time the coinage of the silver dollar, we might hope to 

maintain all of our gold and silver in practical circulation, a.nd there 

would be no danger of any undue contraction of the currency. 

In seven years, with unprecedented effort, about 41,000,000 of the 

silver dollars have been pushed into circulation. We have coined 

within the same time and piled up in the Treasury in addition thereto 

150,000,000 more; and cotlld we be equally successful· hereafter as we 

h..1se been for seven years, it will require twe::o.ty-:five years to exhaust our present stock. If any one can ofrer any good reason why we ought 

to keep our mints at work much J,onger in coining the silver dollar I 

should be glad to hear it. If it is useless, as I believe it to be, without some .foreign auxiliary co-operation, it would seem to be sound 

policy to obtain that co-operation or to suspend the perpetual annual 

appropriation for the purchase of silver bullion, the :fixed amount of 

which is not less than twenty-four millions nor more than forty-eight 

millions. This very large annual expenditure of millions of dollars 

should show some good results or not go on forever. 

Mr. Cernuschi in France, and Mr. Horton in America, the lea,rned 

nncl foremost leaders of silver ad\ocates, or of bimetallism, anxious as they are to bring silver into equal use with gold throughout the world, 

have earnestly urged that the United States should at once cease the 

coinage of the silver dollar as the most effective measure t() promote 

the result they have at heart and with which they have been so long 

iclcnti.fied. But there is apparently some unreadiness to accept the disinterested counsel of these eminent leaders, and it is not proposed by 

the present bill to discontinue the silver coinage under any circumstances until August, 1886. By that time not le s than 42,000,000 more 

of these dollars will ha>e been added to the 192,000,000 coined since 

1 78; and if we should :finally fail of any :urangement with other na- tion , which are quite as deeply interested as we are, it is inconceivable that any one here should not feel that the time will have come 

to ~ay, "Hold, enough ! " 

The amount of silver cel'tificates issued up to December 31, 1884, was 

$138,168,291, and of these $23,302,380 were held in the Treasury. 

This queer form of paper money is rapidly increasing, and appears to be 

usurping the place of United States notes :is well as of national-bank 

notes. En t it is by far the deru:est and most expensive paper currency 

ever invented. For the present they can be used in the payment of cus- toms duties, and thus fur ser>e the purposes of the besli standard of money; 

but beyond this use they can only command the vatlue of the silver 

nominally represented, which is all the Government in the last resort 

promises to redeem them with. It would seem to be very undesirable 

that tills kind of currency should be indefinitely expanded and forced 

into the hands of tho e who may not know that they hold a promise of 

the GoYernment which may ultimately prove much le s valuable than 

that of United States notes. 

'l'he depression which now pervades so many of our industrial interests appears even more conspicuously throughout the leading nations 

of the world. The giants of steam and water power everywhere eem to be taking a rest. Money was ne>er cheaper; but confidence in any 

busine s enterprises fOl' the time is lost. The vital spark in business 

industries is the solid and nnchabging character of the money in circulation. The financial wol'ld is always timid when a skeleton in the 

closet is suspected. At present the coin and paper money in circulation is very abundant. I will give the following statement, which will 

sho.w our present condition in this respect as contrasted with that of 

1878: 

latement of paper ancl coil~ circulation of the Unital States on ilte 1st of January, 1878, al1£l1st of Janua;·y, 1885. 

Held by- I Go.ld coin. 1

1 

Silver coin.l

1 

Total coin. [ Lcgal-t~nd- .r~ntional- Fractional I Gold ccrtifi- 1 Silvru·eertifi- Total paper Total circu- el·s. . bank notes. currency. cates. cates. . · lation. 

-------------------.------ - - - -J-----1-----

Jan•m,y '· "''· I nn. ""· 

467 

. ~--- -

1 

~si?.g~;~~~:;: ~~:::: ;::::: ,.:::: ::::::::::::::::::::1::::::::::-:::::::::::::·::::::::::t:::::::::::::::::::[::::::::::::::::r:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 

Totnl.. ................... ~l19 65,000,000 I 282,881,1191 $349,94.3,776 I $321,672,505 $1.7,70!,108 1 $33,424,~ ..................... 1 $722,805,289 $1.,005,686,408 

~~~~;~~:.~~:.~· ::::: '~::: ! ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::1::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::1:::::::::::::::::::: 

Total..................... 563,000, ()()() I 264,000,000 I 827,000, ()()() 34.6, 681, 016· 285,496, 05!> 6, 971,343 I 119,631,150 I f].38, 1GB, 291 I 896, im, 855 r 1, 723,947,855 

Increase................. 345,118,881 I 199,. 000,000 I 544,118,881 I t3, 262,760 t36, 176,450 tlO, 792, 765 1· S6, 206,250 I 138,168,291 I 174,142,566. 1 718,201,447 

"'Includes $22,231,000 Gold Clearing-House certificates. tDecrca e. 
1258 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. FEBRUARY 4, 

From this statement it will appear that there has been since 1878 the 

very extraordinary expansion of the money in circulation from 1, 005,-

686,409 to $1,723,947,835, or n. total increase of $718,261,447, being an acttllll incense of over $100,000,000 in each and every year. There 

is now, therefore, a uperal)undance of the circulating medium, and we are maitAlycalled upon to preserveit from :flnctuabi.onsand to~ard 

against any possible contraction from any withdrawal· of the large 

amount of gold held by our own country, which o largely serve_ to 

keep us in harmony with the commercial world and o well preserv~ 

the .stability of the finances of our own people. 

I do not wish to demonetize silver or to reduce the amount in circulation, but I would make it safe and practicable to increase the amount 

held in our financial institutions as well as in the hands of the people. 

The present bill and amendments are intended to provide against any 

untoward combination of events that shall leave us with only one of 

the precioUs metals to support our standard of money. We greatly 

need them both. It may be far off, it may never happen, but if we should be at any time driven to the single tandard ·or silver it would 

be a great disaster, affecting the value of all property and of all investments. The blow, should it ever happen, would strike with the greate t 

severity upon the workingmen of the country, who would uddenly 

find thejr wages largely reduced by the cheaper moue of legal-tender 

payment. The employes in the United tates are better paid than in 

any European country, and the London Timea, in ~aking on this subject, September 11, 1883, say : 

Virith regard to tlie remuneration of I hor, n. >'~muing the produce of labor to be 100 in Great Britain, 56 parts go to tho Liborc-r, 21 to tht! oapilnl, an1l 2;~ to government. In France 41 parts go to labor, 36 to capitul, and ZJ to g-o,·crn- ment. In the United tate ;~part go to lalx>r, 23 to aa.pital, and 5 to Government. 

This shows that for any depreciation of the currency which may at 

any time arLc;e the laboring men of the country mu~ he:1r the brunt of 

the lo . Capital will lose . omething, aml the Government will also 

lose something bythelo occasioneu through the che.1.per currency with 

which customs duties mu t be paid-but labor will lose nearly t4ree 

times as much as both capital and the Government. Of all the meas- ures which may affect the welfare of laboring men, there are none m01·e 

insidious or more di astrous than thoge which tender remuneration for 

labor in a depreciated currency, or a currency below thu.t of the tandard 

of value throughout the civilized world. We can not too carcfttlly 

guard against such a flr-reaching disaster. 

I believe the measure before us will be . orne coutrihution, not so great, 

perhnps, as I could wish, toward the.preserv. tion of hothgold and silver ns the 9ommon st.'1nclard of the money of the American people, and I 

leave the subject, only commending it to the dclibcr-.1te judgment of the 

Senate. • · 1\lr. McPHER. 0-T· Mr. President, I think the hour is alto~ether 

too late to-day to enter into any lengthened dLc;cu. ion of the hill, and 

it is certainly too late in the es..'lion to undertake to renew again the 

discussion of the propriety of continuing the silver coinage of the 

country, berutll:le no action can be taken by Congress at this se ion if 

the debate upon that que:·tion were protracted, n it was a. few years 

ago, during orne three or four week.q. Therefore, unless invited and 

strongly urged to do o by the opp nen of the bill which hns been 

reported by tlle Finance Committee of the enate, I hall not touch 

upon that subject at .ll. I simply want to tate the case as it appears 

before the Senate to-dny. It will not take me ten minutes to do that, 

and then I hnll sit down. 

:Ur. President, it has be n argued in CO]Ilmittec and elsewhere that 

there was no moral obligation and no legal ol)ligation re ting upon the 

Government to redeem the trade-dollar. I u e the word" redeem" 

b_ecause it is a convenient term, although perhnp not a strictly proper one to employ. I think that a full answer to this 1=1tntement is (ound 

in a report ruade by the Secretary of the Treasury, 1\Ir. Folge!·, in 1 3, 

in stronger ancl better terms than I can employ in regard to it, and I 

will re.1.<1 the report of the Secretary. He S!lY' : 

The act of 1~ mtHle the Bilver coins of tht: United. tates, and hence the lrndc- dollurs, al('g&.l tencl rat their nominal \'alue for nny amount not over $5. Tlms the rending or tilt" la"'staughi the I> ople that th trade-dollar w a coin of their soYereignty, and for tb"' redemption of which, at an unnb ted value, their Gov- ernment was houud. 'l'he renllegislati\'C purpo is to be blindly ought for in tradition or in the rf'N>rd of Congre: Kionul uiscu .. ion und is indicated in the joint resolution of 1Si6, which took away from this coin the legal-tender quality of it, and held down the coinag o!lt to the oo.ll for it for exportation. It is plain that a IJu~y people finding thi coin afiou.t In the channels of hu 1- ne Rtyled a coin of tile United Htate:-~, would rc:ulily belie\·e that it was an au- thentic· ue of the Government, and to be re1l cmed hy the Government the srune as other money put out bv it. From time to time, howeYer, s it suits scheming men and the occasion t'lts, a hue nnd c:ry is r i~<ed ngninRt i~, it is dht- credlted in the mrtrt , ancl mn ary hohlerR sutTer lo or inconvenience. .As it is a. coin or the United tat , havin~ the image and uper~ription thcr of, aanclioned as uch by penalli upon tile counterfeiting of it and once dignified as a legal tencl t• in payment of debt and due:-~, it houlu be restored to it first state, or called in at its nominal Vl\lue and melted. In the judgment of this De- partment it hould be thus called in and melted. 

In addition to the objection that I ha'e somewhere heard stated, that 

there was neither a. moral nor a legal obligation re ting upon the G<>vernment, there is another claim made to the-eftect th11t the trnde-doll:us held in this country haYe been very largely bought up by speculators for tho pu.rpo e of profitiug upon them, nuder the belief that at 

some_ time the Go,ernmentwould undertake to redeem them. I :M.ve 

made a. careful investigation as to the condition of affairs existina in 

my own State touching the trade-dollar, nnd I have in my hand a l~rge number of reports made to me hy banking institutions, very many of 

them savings.-banks, also corporations and individuals, who have taken 

the trade-dollar in the way of business with the full expectation that 

the Government some time would redeem its own coin. The most of 

them were taken by these people prior to the passage of the resolution 

of 1876, which did not destroy the trade-dollar as a coin of the country, 

but. simply robbed it of its legal-tender qtiality. I will not detain the Sena~e by reading any considerable number of these communications, 

but I will give you au illustration of how they run by reading a few. 

One bank reports that it has in its banlc vaults, together with cus- tomers who also have deposited trade-dol1'U'S in the vaults upon which 

they have borrowed money; pledging them at their bullion value to 

rai e money to be u. cd in their business, and are paying interest upon 

the money because they can not w e the coin that the Government 

itself has issued for that purpose-! say one bank reports that there are 9,500 trade-dollars held by the bank and its customers, and every one of them received at its face value. Another bank report $7 000 

held jn like manner; received at a di. count, or as bullion, none. '.Another bank reports $33,G72, a ~avin~ bank, held by itself and its cus- tomers. Another bank reportil in like terms 13,600; none taken a.t a discount; none received as bullion, but all held by the bank and by itg 

customer. Another reports 0,000; none at a. discount, none received as bullion. Another reports 3,343 in like manner. Another reports 

$2,357; received a.t a discount, $70. 

I might rea.d aU .thO! e reports, bntlhave given the Senate enough for 

illustration. About the .ame condition of thing runs through all the 

1·eport , and these I hold in my band are only a smnll portion of those 

I have received. ~Ir. President, I ball acldrel myself strictly for a very few moments 

to the legal condition of the trade-dollar in the hands of the people of 

the country to-day. As I understand it, :Mr. Pre ident, the trade-dollar 

holds an anomalous po ition among the coin. of the United States. By 

the act of February 12, 1873, it was made a coin of the United States. 

Section 15 of the act rends as follows: 

Th:J.t the silver coins of the Unit •d late shall be a trade-dollar, u half-dol- Jar or fifty-cent piece, n. quat·ter-dollar or t\vcnty-tlvc-cc-nt pic-cc, o. diwe or ten- cent pi<'ce, and the weig-ht of the tro.de-dollarsball be 420 g-mins troy • • • nd &!.u. coin~:~ shall be u. le,..al tendor for any ll.lllount not exceeding- $.3 in nny one payment. 

There can be no que tion that the act which authorized the coina6e of 

the trade-dollar first made it n. coin of the United States, and secondly a legal tender at its nominal \alue for any amount not exceeding ·'>. 

Acting under authority of this law, the Govemment coined 15,-

631,000 trade-dollars between July, 1873, and the 22d of July, 1876, 

when by joint r olution of Congr the legal-tender quality was taken 

away from the trade-dol11.r. The Goveruruent, however, continued 

the coinage, as was_ stated in th~ re olutiou of 1876, for export, and 

$20,:.128,360 more trade-dollars were coined before tho existing coinage 

act was pa.s-5ed in 1878, wllich stopped the coinage of all silver dollars 

ext•ept the standard dollar. 

This is a. true statement of the law, and all the 1'lw, touching the 

trade-dollar. It will be seen that Congress made no provision for re- deeming the coin which got into circulation while a legal tender, hut 

intensified the very frond which it denounced in the act of 1870 by 

continuing the coinage until 1 78. 

It is therefore proper to inquire what is the present mornl and legal 

rcRpon ibility of the Government in respect to the trade-dollar. 

Is not the act creating it (the trade-dollar), which say "the silver 

coins of the United States hall be a trade-dollar,'' &c., the unrepealed 

law of the land to-day? I it not a coin and dollar to-day, notwithstanding the act of 18i0 taking from it its legal-tender quality? 

There has never been any legislation to strike the trade-dollar off the 

list of coins of the United States. The act of 1873 hoth made it acoin 

and a legal tender; the act of 1876 merely declared it should no longer 

be a legal tender. It is evident, therefore, that tho law making it a. coin of the United Stat ha never been repealed. 'Ve have now two 

provisions of law-the one declaring the tmde-dollaru.legal tender; the 

other declaring it not a legal tender, which i. the ruling provision. The 

first never has heen expressly amended or expr ly repealetl. Is it not, 

therefore, technically an open question whether even the legal-tender 

quality of tho trade-dollar ha9 been destroyed? . Even if we sl1ould grant that the lt"gal-tl'nder quality of the tradedollar was t.'lken away by the joint rc. olntiOI\ of July, 1 iO, another 

question arise! . The act of February 28, 1878, which authorizes the 

coinage of the p1·c ·ent standard silYer dollar, read.-:~ as follows: 

Be it enacted, That there shall be coined silver dollars or the wcl~ht of 412l grains troy standard silver, which coins, iogethet· ilh all ·ilvcr dol lara hereto- fore coined by tile United St11t.es, of like weight and flnenc . shall b lepl tender at their nominal v lue for all debts nnd du . public nnd private. except 

where otherwise expr ly stipulated in the contnu:t. 

The trade-dollar was not exprl'SSly ex.ceptoo from tho provision~ of 

thic; la.w, and the only ground for assuming that it was to be excepted 

is thnt the trade-dollar hnd a greater weight than the standnrd silver 

dollar. The assumption, therefore, that the l::iw of 1878 excluded the 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 1259 

trade-dollar from the opemtion of the legal-tender clauseTe.sts upon no expression of intent contained in the law itself. 

It was not generally understood or believed that it was to be theP91-

icy of the Government after the 1(\,oislation of 1878 to refuse tbe dollar 

of 420 grains while it was coining with full legal-tender power a. dollar 

of less weight and less intrinsic value. To coin money and-regulate its 

value is a superior power inherent in the Government; but what moral 

right has the GoTernment to so change its coinage.laws as to demonetize in the hands of the people the coins theretofore issued as a legal 

tender without first -making suitable provision for withdrawing said 

coins from circulation? In its treatment of the trade-dollar the Government seems inclined to ignore its obligations regarding that coin entirely. 

To say that this is disteputable is to use a mild term. No government 

having a decent regard for its credit would commit such a wr •ng upon it.s own people. 

Casting aside all questions of law or morals touching the coinage of 

the trade-dollar after the act of July, 1876, it certainly will not beargued that as to those coined prior to that date and pursuant to the law 

of 1873, which made them a legal tentler, the Government is notlegally 

bound to either restore them to the same position they occupied as coins or redeem them in legal silver dollars. 

Let.me refer you to the report of the Director of the Mint for the 

year 1879, in which he gives the amount of trade-dolla1-s coined each 

year from July, 1873, to July 22, 1876, when the joint resolution was passed taking away from those coins their legal-tender quality. 

The Director of the ~lint gives 15,631;ooo trade-dollars as having 

been coined during that period, and it was the only silv~r dollar of the 

United States that ·was coined, and it circulated as money, and only 

about $12,000,000 of this 15,631,000 trade-dollars were ever exported. 

It is claimed, however, that inasmuch as the trade-dollaT was made by 

the Government for the purpose of export to foreign countries, we are under no obligation to redeem it; but the Government made it a coin, 

the only coin in the nature of a silver dollar that it was issuing, gave 

to it a legal-tender power, issued $15,600,000, and then repudiated them 

and demonetized them in the hands of the people. Now as to these 

coins will it be said, as a reason why. they should not be redeemed, that 

they were intended for export? Read the law. Examine the coin. 

There is no word in the law and no mark upon the coin which reveals 

fo the holder any such i..Qtention on the part of Congress. For three 

years prior to the 22d of July, 1876, the trade-dollar was t.heonlysilver 

dollar that was coined by the United States. It went into circulation 

at home be~use it was needed, and it remained in circulation, as it 

would be to-day had m~t Congress destroyed it. and left it a worthless 

token in the hands of the holders. · Suppose, for the sake of the argument, they were intended for export. 

As about eight millions ·are in this country to-day, it is very evident 

all that were coinedwerenotexported, or, if exported, have returned to 

the country, and hold the same ·attitude and relation to the Government as do those that never left the country. This is true also as to 

the entire issue prior at least to July, 1876. · As to those coined after 

the legal-tender quality was taken away, the equities involved arc all on the side of the holders, the coin getting into circulation through the 

failure of the Government to so stamp the coin as to leave no chance 

for deception as to itS status. We are brought to the conclusion, then, tha~ both in law and equity the holder of the trade· dollar has the !-"ight 

to demand its redemption by the Government. 

Now one word as to. the bill und~r consideration, and to this I wish 

to call the attention of the Senate only for a moment. . · It proposes to give the holders standard silver dollars in exchange 

for trade-dollars not defacOO. or mutilated. This is in accordance with 

existing law as to all defaced or mutilated coins of either gold or silver, 

and therefore works no injustice in this case. Moreover, a large proportion o£.the trade-dollars coined by the United States were exported 

and have been accepted and stamped by other nations as their own coin; 

and in this way became a part of the circulation of that country. A 

reoont careful investigation reveals the fact that but few of our tradedollars are found in the marts of trade in China and elsewhere; and as they were of greater intrinsic value than the coin there in circulation, 

it favors the presumption that they are being hoarded or have found 

their way to the melting-pot. In any event, it is not-probable that any 

considerable number of them will find their way back to the United 

States in a condition reqlliring the Gove~ent to redeem them under 

this provision of the bill. 

Therefore I assume that .perhaps no more t~n eight-or ten million 

trade-dollars are to-day in existence that will be returned to and demand ·exchange from the Government. 

The next section provides for their recoinage into standard silver dollars, but in such limited quantities as will not perceptibly affect the 

operations of the Government in the purchase of bullion for the coinage of standard silver dollars or increase the number coined. . The last section relates to an entirely different subject, and one of 

vast importance at this time. 

It provides for an international conference and legislation to enforce 

its decress, assuming "that, gold 'and silver- being proper metals for 

coinage,'' their relative value can. be best ascertained and rendered stable 

by conference and co-operation with other leading eomm.ercial nations. 

That such an agreement, considering the experienc; of the past in this 

direction, is possible no one will attempt to assert, but no Senator, 

whatever his views upon the subject of a double standard, can doubt 

the wisdom of this proceeding, so far as it relates to the conference 

itself. In case, however, no agreement is reached, the bill proposes to · suspend the coinage of the silver dollar on and after August 1, 1886. 

The effect of this provision can not fail to have some. influence upon 

the final determination Qf the conference touching the double standard, to say nothing of the good effect such a suspension·will have upon 

the financial condition of our own country, considering as we must the 

present low and lowering valn_e of silver bullion. Before August, 1886, 

we shall have about two ;hundred and fifty millions of silver dollars in 

the Treasury vaults; and I submit to every Senator, whatev~r. may be 

his views about the silver dollar, if it be not the part of wisdom to pause 

and take our reckoning anew before committing the Government irrevocably-to a monetary policy which in the judgment of many of the 

best financial minds in the country leads to ultimate disaster and ruin. 

This is the simple issue presented here. If the conference fails, the bill 

simply asks that we wait and consider well our next step before taking it. 

That is all there is in the lCoaislation here proposed, Mr. President~ 

first to pay the obligations of the Government with respect to its own coin, the trade-dollar; the next step, that the trade-dollar shall be sent 

to the mints' and coined into the standard dollar, and shall not be again 

issued; that the amount thus received shall fortn part and only a small 

part under the provisions of this bill of the $2,000,000 of bullion which 

the Government under the act of 1878 is allowed or reqltired to purchase and make into standard dollars monthly. 

As to the other section of the bill, au international-conference is provided for again, to get the states of the ~atin Union, the commercial 

states of Europe, to act conjointly with us in an attempt to keep silver 

and gold at par with each other and to make the two metals run side 

by side in doing the busin~ss of the world. In the event, however, 

that the conference fails, it is proposed to discontinue the coinage of 

the standard silverdollar; and it is proposed in this bill to give notice, 

in ad vance of such conference, to every other nation that we have tried 

it; that the UnitedStates alone can not maintain the equality of these 

two metals, and that we do not propose to try to do it longer. 

Mr. BOWEN. Ur. President--

Mr. PLUUB. I ask the Senator from Colorado if he desires to go 

on with his remarks at this late hour? 

Mr. BOWEN. No; I prefer to say what I -have.to .say to-morrow. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. .The Senator from Colorado will be 

entitled to the floor when the consideration of the bill shall be resumed to-morrow. 

?tlr. PLU?IfB. I move that the Senate proceed to the consideration 

of executive- b"usiness. · Mr .. BECK. Before that is done I desire to say a word, if the Senate will allow me. · :Mr. PLUMB. I withdraw the motion. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The motion is withdrawn.~ 

Mr. BECK. It halii been stated· by the chairman of the committee, 

and by the member of the Committee on Finance from New Jersey, 

that this was the report of the Finance Committee. It is in one sense, 

and yet it was understood and agreed among us all that ther.e was hardly a provision in it that has the cOncurrence of a majority of the committee. The fifth and sixth sections did barely hav-e a majority, and -other 

sections were also opposed. I desire the Senate to understand that this 

is not a unanimous report by any manner of means. 

That is all I desire to say now. 

INAUGURA~O~ CEREMONIES. 

Mr. HARRIS. I desir~to submitatt.hismomenta conference report. 

The Chief Clerk read the report, as follows: 

The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 8121) to enable the commissioners of the District of Columbia to maintam public order during the ceremo- nies of the inaugurs.tiou of the President, and for other purposes, having met·, after full and free conference have agreed to recommend and do recommend to 

their respective Houses as follows: · That the-Senate recede from its amendment numbered (. 

That the House recede from its disagreement to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7; and agree to the same. That the House recede from its disa~reement to the amendment of the Senate 

numbered 3, and agree to the sa.me With an aiPendment as follows: Restore the matter proposed to be stricken out by said amendment; and the Senate agree to the same. ISHAM G: HARRIS, 

JOHN J. INGALLS, 

AUSTJN F. PIKE, · Managers on the part of the Bena.te. 

JOHN F. FOLLETT, . J. G. CANNON, 

Managers on the part of the House. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin, in the 

chair). The question is on agreeing to the report of the committee of 

conference. 

The repol't was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. BLAIR. I desire to ask the Senator from Vermont or any one 

• 
• 

1260 CONGRESSIONAL. RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 4, 

in charge of ihe pending bill to allow it to be laid aside informally at 

this time, in order that the contract-labor bill, Honse . bill 2550, of 

which I spoke some time ago, may be· considered at this time. The 

bill is a short one. · I do not think it will excite discussion. I think 

it can be very readily disposed of ~his evening. I ask that the pending 

order be informally laid aside that it may be now considered. The PRESIDING OFFICER. What is the Order of Business? 

Mr. BLAIR. . Eight hundred and sixty-three. 

Mr. McPHERSON. I do not see the chairman of the Finance Committee in his seat. I would ask the Senator from New Hampshire not 

to displace the pending bill. 

Mr. BLAIR. My request was that it be laid aside informally that 

the bill to which I referred might be considered. 

Mr. McPHERSON. This bill being the continuing business. 

Mr. PLUMB. I do not believe the bill which the Senator from New 

Hamp.Shire has charge of will be able to get through as readily as he 

thinks, although I am not aware of any opposition to it on my part. 

I am in favor of it with some amendments; but it is. very late now, 

and we shall get into some wrangle about it if it is taken up. He 

might as well let it go over until to-morrow, I think, and therefore I move that the Senate proceed to the consideration of executive business. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Kansas moves that 

the Senate proceed to the consideration of executive busiri.es.S. 

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the consideration of executive business. After forty minut-es spent in executive 

session the doors were reopened, and (at 5 o'clock and 25 mii:mtes p. 

m.) the Senate adjourned. .· 

HOUSE OF R,EPRESENTATIVES. 

WEDNESDAY, February 4, 1885. 

The House met at 12 o'clock m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. JoHN 

S. LINDSAY, D. D. 

The ;Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

Mr. B~LFORD, representing the State of Colorado, appea.red and took 

his seat. · · REPORT OF COAST A.J.."n) GEODETIO SURVEY. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will lay before the House, 

under the statute1 for re:(erence to. the Committee on Prlnting, a con- current resolution of the Senate7 which the ·clerk will read. 

The Clerk read as-follows: 

Is THE SENATE OF THE U!<"ITED 81'ATEs, Ja~~JLary 3:), 1885. 

.Ruolved by the Senate (the Hottse of Representatives conc"rring), That there be 

printed 3,000 extra copies of the.report of the Superintendent of the Coast and 

Geodetic Survey, showin~ the progress in said survey during the year ending June 30, 1884, for distribution by said Superintendent. • 

CORRECTION OF .ERROR IN ENGROSSED BILL. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will a&k consent of the 

House ro submit also at this time a House bill, which has been reCalled 

from the Senate by the aetion of the House for the purpose of correcting a clerical error, the title of which will be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

.A bill (H. R. 691) for the relief of William W. Thomas. 

• lN T:HiJ: SENATE OF THE UXITED STATES, January 30,1885. 

Ordered, That the Secretary be directed to return to the House of Representa- ti.v~, in compliance with its request, the bill (H. R . 691) for the relief of William 

W.Thomas. · 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will report the corrections 

to be made in this bill. · The Clerk read as follow~: 

It is proposed to strike out in line 13 the words" June 30 ' ' and insert " March 

S ;"in line 14strike out "64 " and insert" 65 ;"in lines20and21 strikeout" June 30" and insert "March 3 ;"in line 22strike out "65" and insert "64;" in line Zl 

tstrike out" SO" andjnsert "60;" so that it will read ns follows: · "Be il enacted; &c.; That the Secretary of the Treasury be authorized and directed to pay to William ,V. Th~mas, of Portland, in the State of Maine, the sum of 8309 (being the amount of coupons of United States bonds lost by him, and now unpaid, namely, coupons d.ile December 15, 1867, of five-hundred-dollar 7.30 notes, numbered 132909t 132911,142262, and 142268, act of 1\Iarch 3,1~, dated June 15, 1865; also coupons aue January 15, 1868, of one-thousand-dollar 7.30 notes, 

numbered 24199, 24204, 39406, and 6.fi36, act of March 3, 1864, dated July 15, 1864; 

and coupons due January 1, 1868, of bonds numbered 1437, 86826, and 86827, for 11,000 each, act of July 17, 1861), upon said Thomas givingabondofindemnityin 

double the amount to be paid, with sureties satisfactory to the Secretary of the 

Treasury." · 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Jf there be no objection these correc- tions will be made in the bill, and the same will be returned to the Senate as corrected. 

There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the rule of the House adopted on yesterday, which the Clerk will now read, the order of bu8iness for today is changed. · The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, Thn.t each morning during the remainder of this session, immediately 

o.fter the approval of the Journal, there shall be et apart one hour for motions 

to take up and consider such bills or resolutions' on any of the calendars of t.he 

House, or on the Speaker's table, or bills favorably reported from the calendars 

undisposed of, as the member making the motion may designate. And the bills or resolutions so designated shall be immediately considered, unless objected to by at least ten members. But no bill or resolution taken up for consideration 

under this order shall be debated for more than ten minutes, which time shall 

be equally divided between the supporters and the opponents ofthe measure. If 

the yeas and n ays shall be ordered on any such bill or resolution, or any pro- posed amendment thereto, and the call of the roll shall be commenced before 

the expiration of the said one hour, the same shall be completed before the reg- ular order of business is entered upon : Pr(}vided, That while thjs order remains 

in force the Speaker shaJl not entertain any requests for unanimous consent to consider &ny bill or resolution at any other time than herein provided; but )le may entertain such requests to refer bills or resolutions to committees, or to dispose of Senate amendments to bills which have passed the House. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The morning hour begins a.t seventeen 

minutes past 12 o'clock. -

PUBLIC UILDL.~G, COUNCIL BLUFFS, IOWA. 

Mr. PUSEY. Mr. Speaker, under the operation of the rule adopted on yesterday, I ask consideration of the bill (H. R. 441) for the com- pletion of a public building at Council Bluffs, Iowa. 

The bill was read at length. . Mr. PUSEY. I a.sk the reading of the letter of the Secretary of the 

Treasury in this connection showing the necessity for the construction 

of this building. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. · The first question is, Shall the bill be 

considered? 

Mr. HOLUAN. What constitutes an objection to the consideration 

of a bill under this rule? 

The SPEAK.ER pro tempore. The Chair will .state that under this 

rule a bill called up in its proper order shall be immediately considered unless there shall be objection ·made by ten or more members to 

its present consideration . . Mr. HOLMAN. Does not the objection come in after the bill h..'lS 

been considered? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state that the rule is 

imperative and clear in its language that the bill shall be considered 

unless the objection of ten members shall be interposed. The bill is 

read in the hearing of the House in order that members may determine 

whether or not they will object to its consideration under the rule. 

Mr. HOLMAN. But is it not proper, prior to asking objections tO 

the consideration of the bill, that the report should be laid before the 

House in order to inform the House as to the nature of the measure proposed to be considered? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thinks that the report could 

only be read within . tlie time allowed for .debate under the rule. It 

forms no part of the bill·itself, and is not necessarily read, and can not 

be read, except by unanimous consent, prior to asking objection of the 

House to the consideration of the measure. If the report shall be first 

read, it would be in the nature of debate, and it would then be too late 

to object to the consideration. · . 

Mr. HOLMAN. I hope I will be indulged for a moment further. 

Under the system of rules formerly prevailing in the House when the 

House was in Committee of the Whole House on the Private Calendar a single objection was sufficient to postpone the CQnsideration of a meas- ure. It was held by the Speaker, as I now remember, that the reading 

of the report might be demanded before objection· was called for. 

1\1!. DUNHAM. I rise to a question of order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it . Mr. DUNHAM. I ask if this hour is to be taken up in the consideration of the rule? 

Mr. RANDALL. Oh, yes. This is ~question as to its effect. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state that five minutes 

is allowed, under the. tule, for debate for and against the measure which is proposed to be considered. The Chair knows of no rule under 

which the gentleman from Indiana is proceeding except by unanimous 

consent, which will be charg~ to the time allowed for debate upon 

the measure proposed. 

Mr. HOLMA.J..~. But certainly this time occupied on a question of 

order, to ascertain the meaning and application of the rule, would not 

be charged to the hour. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair did not understand the 

gentleman as rising to a question of order. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I am insisting that, according to the practice heretofore prevai.1.plg in regard to objections of a•similar character, thereport should be read before the question of objection shall be submitted. 

That was the practice heretofore in ·the case already mentioned, where a single objection postponed the consideration of a measure, and it was held that tlie reading of the report preceded the call for objection. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair does not think the point of 

order is well taken. The Chair knows no rule of the House requiring 

the reports accompanying a measure to be read, nor of any practice of 

the House which allows it io be taken otherwise than as a part of the 

debate upon the proposition. 

Mr. WELLER. I rise to a parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. WELLER. I desire to kno'v whether under the present rule 

this bill, the consideratio.n of it being objected·to by the requisite ten 

members, on the next morning hour can be again called up?