4416 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. MAY 23, 

Mr. COBB. I did not yield for a speech. 'Mr. GEORGE. It has nothing to do with the Oregon Central this 

grant relates to. 

Mr. COBB. The supreme court held otherwise. 

Mr. GEORGE. I differ with the gentleman. 

Mr. COBB. It. is the same company. It is for the gentleman from 

Oregon to produce the testimony to show that this does not apply to 

.the road in question-that is, tQ the land grants of the Oregon Central 

Railroad Company. He makes the denial and says it does not apply 

to it, and I ask him to produce the evidence in support of the denial. 

I have quoted here the decision of the supreme court of Oregon. . Mr. GEORGE. I did not suppose, of course, this decision would be 

brought in here, as it has no possible connection with the case in con- troversy. 

Mr. COBB. It is suggested to me, Mr. ~peaker, that I yield the floor now for a motion to adjourn, which I am willing to do, retaining, how-

.ever, the right to take the' floor on the subject when it comes up again as unfinished business. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will be entitled to the 

:iloor. 

Mr. ANDERSON. I move that the House do now adjourn. 

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. SYMPSON, one of its clerks, an- • nounced that the Senate had passed without amendment bills of the 

House of the following titles, namely: 

A bill (H. R. 7076) to declare the cantalever bridge constructed by 

the Niagara River Bridge Company across the Niagara River a postroad· 

A bill (H. R. 5443) for the relief of N. C. Ridenaur; and 

Joint resolution (H. Res. 245) authorizing the loan of certain flags to 

the Portland Soldiers and SailQI"S1 Monument Association. 

The message further announced that the Senate had passed with 

amendments, in which the concurrence of the House was requested, a bill of the following title: 

A bill (H. R. 2824) to amend sections 4, 5, and 9 of aD a<Jt approved 

February 24, 1876, entitled ''An act to create the northern judicial district of the State of Texas, ud change the eastern and western judicial 

districts of said State, and to fix the time and places for holding couri:B 

in said districts," and to provide for holding terms of the western 

judicial district of Texas at the cityofEl Paso, and for other purposes. 

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

By unanimous consent, leave of a.Psence was granted as follows: 

To Mr. KELLEY, until Monday next, on account of important busi- ness. To Mr. DoRSHEIMER, until Monday next. 

To Mr. EvANs, ·or Pennsylvania, from Friday until Tuesday next. 

And then, on motion of Mr. HATCH, of Missouri (at 4 o'clock and 

40 minutes p.m.), the House adjourned. 

fETITIONS, ETC. 

The following petitions and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk, 

onder the rule, and referred as follows: 

By Mr. BARBOUR: Papers relating to the claim of Amandee S. Farrow-to the Committee on War Claims. 

By Mr. BARKSDALE: Petition of the faculty and students of Mississippi College, Clinton, Miss., for the passage of the educational billto the Committee on Education. 

By Mr. ERMENTROUT: Memorial of the department of public instructionofVirginia, in favorofthe Blair educational bill-to the same committee. . By Mr. GEDDES: Petition of Herman Ely and 70 others, citizens 

Qf Elyria, Ohio, for an appropriation of $400,000, asked for by the Secretary of the Interior, for Indian (:!Chools-to the Committee on Appropriations. 

By Mr. KEIFER: Petition of the McCormick Harvesting-Machine 

Company and 40 other firms and citizens of Chicago, ill., praying for . the passage of a bill organizing the Patent Office into a separate and 

independent department-to the Committee on Patents. 

By ltfr. LOVERING: Memorial and petition signed by 800 soldiers 

and citizens, members of the Soldiers and Citizens' National League, 

asking the passage of an act granting a pens~on of 8 per month to all 

honorably discharged soldiers and sailors of the war of the rebellionto the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

Also, petition of the same import of 0. L·. Whitcomb, chaplain, and 

56 othei'S, members ofLendrum Post, No. 370, Grand Armyofthe Republic, ·Department of New York-to th~ same committee. 

By Mr. .McCOl\IAS: Petition of John Hammond, for payment of 

claim-to the Committee on War Claims. 

Also, petition of Harrison Beeler, relative to his claim-to t}le same committee. 

Also, petition relating to the claim of Thomas Barnum-t.o the same committee. · By Mr. 1\IILLA.RD: Petition asking for further appropriations for 

aid to Indian education, &c.-to the Committee on, Appropriations. 

By Mr. MOREY: Resolution of the Ohio State AssOciation of ExPrisoners of War, for the passage of the Robinson bill to pension ex- prisoners-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By Mr. MORRILL: Petition of the Ex-Prisoner of War Association, 

asking for the passage of H. R. 1189, known as the Robinson bill-to 

the same committee. 

By Mr. ROCKWELL: Remonstrance of citizens of Great Barrington, 

Mass., against governmental monopoly of the telegraph business-to 

the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. 

By Mr. SENEY: Petition ofthe Ohio Association of Ex-Union Pris- oners of W a.r, praying for the passage of H. R. 1189-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions . By Mr. SEYMOU'R: Remonstrance of Harvey B. Steele, M.D., and 

others, of West Winsted, and of Benedict Bros., and others, of Danbury, 

Conn., against governmental monopoly of the telegraph business, &c.-

severally to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. 

By Mr. STEPHENSON: Petition of Marshfield Post, No. 110, Grand 

Army of the Republic, Department of Wisconsin, asking Congress to 

grant a pension of 8 _per month to all Union soldiers and sailors of the war of the rebellion-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 

By Mr. E. B. TAYLOR: Petition of C. 0. Higgins and 34 others, 

praying for further appropriations for Indian schools-to the Committee on Appropriations. 

By Mr. H. G. TURNER: Petition of the grand jury and others, of 

the county commissioners, and of E. R. Peabody and others of Decatur 

County, Georgia, for the passage of the Blair bill~verally to the 

Committee on Education. · By Mr. VANCE: Petition ofW. C. Williams and sundry citizens of 

North Carolina, and of A. L. Rucker and sundry citizens of Rutherford County, North Carolina, in favor of aid to common schoolsseverally to the same committee. 

Also, resolutibns of the department of instruction of Virginia, in favor 

of aid to free schools-to the same committee. 

By Mr. MILO WHITE: Memorial of Mcintyre Post, No. 66, Grand 

Army of the Republic, relative to pensions-to the Committee on In· 

valid Pensions. 

SENATE. 

FRIDAY, May 23, 1884. 

Prayer by .the Chaplain, Rev. ·E. D. HUNTLEY, D. D. - The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore laid before the Senate a communication 

fromtheSecretaryoftheNavy, transmittingcertainpapersreceivedfrom 

Capt. John Ericsson, calling attention to his system of submarine torpedo attack, and urging an appropriation of$160,000forbuildingavessel, guns, and torpedoes, which shall embody his latest ideas concerning 

the system, with a recommendation for the purchase of the Destroyer; 

which, with the accompanying papers, was referred to the Committee on Naval Affairs, and ordered to be printed. 

N.A V .AL ACADEMY VISITORS. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Ch~ir appoints the Senator from 

Wisconsin [Mr. CAMERON] to be a Visitor to the Naval Academy at 

Annapolis, at t.h'e coming annual examination, in place of the Senator 

from Connecticut [Mr. PLATT] declined. 

PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS. 

. The PRESIDENT pro tempore presented a concurrent resolution of 

the Legislature of the State of New York; which was read, andreferred to the Committee on Epidemic Diseases, as follows: 

[Concurrent resolution.] 

Whereas the Constitution of the United States prohibits a State from levying any tax upon commerce for purposes of revenue; and 

Whereas the Congress of the United States has an unquestioned power toes- tablish a. system of fees for the support, care, and maintenance of quarantine: 

Therefore, · Resolved (if the senate concur), That the Congress of the United State be, and 

is hereby, requested to establish by law such just and equitable fees for the 

port of New York, and for all ports of entry in the United States, as a. confer- ence of the representatives of the State boards of health of the maritime States 

and of the National Board of Health may recommend, or as Congress in its wis-• dom may enact, the object of this resolution being to establish economical and 

efficient commercial and health service in· the principal maritime ports of the 

country. STATE OF NEW YORK, IN SENATE, April 2, 1884. 

The foregoing resolution was duly passed. 

By order of the senate. JOHN W. VROOMAN, Clerk. 

STATE OF NEW YORK, IN AssEMBLY, March 20, 1tl84. 

The foregoing resolution was duly passed. 

By order of the assembly. 

STATE OF NEW YoRK, 

OJfice of the secretary of state, ss: 

C. A. CIDCK.ERING, Clerk. 

I have compared the preceding with the concurrent resolution on file in thitl 

office, a.nd do hereby certify that the same is a. correct transcript therefrom and 

of the whole of said concurrent resolution. 

Given under my hand and the seal of office of the secretary of state, at the city of .Albany, this 20th day of May, in the year 1884. . [sEAL.) JOSEPH B. C.ARR, ·Secretary of State. 
t. 

1884. CONGRESSIONAL. RECORD-SENATE. 4417 

The PRESIDENT pro tetnpore presented a petition of Stannard Post, 

No.2, Department of Vermont, Grand Army of the Republic, praying 

f?r the passage of certain pension legislation recommended by the penSion committee of the Grand Army of the Republic; which was referred 

to the Committee on Pensions. 

Mr. ALLISON presented the memorial of A.' T. Lusch and other citi- z~ of Waverly, Iowa, and the memorial of E. L. Lyon and other 

citizens of Marshalltown, Iowa, remonstrating ~o-ainst the enadment 

of any measure relating to the telegraph which shall increase the number of Government officials or e..<ttablish a governmental monopoly of the 

telegraph business; which were ordered to lie on the table. 

Mr. JONAS presented a petition of ex-Union soldiers and sailors, 

members of Joseph A. Mower Post, No. 1, Grand Artny of the Repub-

~c, Department of the Gulf, praying for the passage of a bill to establish a branch of theN ational Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers for 

the care of helpless ex-Union soldiers and sailors at some point on the 

Gulf coast between New Orleans and Mobile; which was referred to the 

Committee on Military Affairs. · 

~- VES~. I pr~ent a memorial signed by Capt. John P. Keiser, 

p:r:esident ~t Loms and New Orleans Anchor Line; Henry C. Haarstick, president of the Saint Louis and Mississippi Valley Transportation 

Company; C. ·s. R?<~gers, president of the Naples Packet Company; S. 

T. F. Eckert, president, and D. R. Powell, secretary the Underwriters' 

Wrecking Company, andanumberofothermasters~downersofWest­ ern steamers, remonstrating against the passage of a bill introduced in th~ Senate on the 21st day of April, 1884, requiring all steamers registenng five hundred tons or over to be equipped with Richardson's selfrighting and self-baling life-boats. I presume that the bill has been 

referred to the Committee on Commerce. That oug}?.t to have been the 

reference. I have not looked at the record to ascertain the fact. 

The PRESIDENT p'ro tetnpore. The Chair thinks that the bill should 

have been referred, and undoubtedly was referred, to the Committee on Commerce. 

Mr. VEST. I move that the memorial be referred to the Committee on Commerce. 

The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. SAWYER. I present the memorial of Z. G. Simmons and 131 ot~er business men, of K_enosha, Wis., remonstrating against the passage of any law to establiSh a Government monopoly of the telegraph 

business. As the subject-matter has been reported on I move that the 

memorjal lie on the table. ' 

The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. LAPHAM. I present the memorial of John L. Cunningham 

and 51 settlers on what are known as the Des Moines River lands in 

Iowa. They state that they are purchasers from the Des Moines Navigation Company of the lands they occupy, that they paid full vaJ.ue for 

the same, and have paid the mxes thereon for many years and they remonstra~e against the passage of the bill now before the' Senate upon 

that subJect. I move that t)le memorial lie on the table. 

The motion was agreed to.· 

Mr. HOAR. I pr-esent the memorial of John Quincy Adams and a 

large nu~ber of_ the best known business men of the city of Boston, remonstratin~ agamst _the enactment of any' law relating to the telegraph 

system w~ch shall m~rease the number ofpublic officials, &c. I also 

present a hke memorial of T. M. Stetson Cha 'les W. Clifford and a large number of the principal business me~ of the city of New B~ord Mass., to the same effect, to which I desire to call ~he attention of th~ Chair. I move that the memorials lie on the table. , The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. BUTLER. . I present the memorial of W. B. Stanley, president 

of the Central NatiOnal Bank, and .fifty-odd other citizens of Columbia 

S. C., remonstrating agaU;tst the e~tment of any measure relating fu t~e telegraph_ system which shall mcrease the number of public offiCials or establish a governmental monopoly of the telegraph business or 

which shall. enw~oy the functions of the Government to destroy the prope~ of mdividua~. ~ho have embarked in legitimate enterprises 

to proVIde ample facilities for the public accommodation &c. The 

memorial is accompanied by a letter from F. W. !fcM:aster 'of Columbia, S. C., transmitting the same. I move that the me~oriallie on the table. 

The motion was agreed to. 

. ~-ALDRIC~ presented the memorial of Thomas A. Doyle and other c~tizens of. P~oVIdence, R. I., remonstrating against the passage of a bill establishing a Government monopoly of the telegraph business· 

which was ordered to 1ie on the table. ' 

Mr. !tiTLLER, of New York, presented a memorial of citizens of Corfu 

N.Y., and_amemorialof citizensofElmira, N.Y., remonstrating against 

the establishment of a governmental telegraph· which were ordered to 

lie on the table: ' 

He also presented the memorial of HenryS. Martindaleand 363 other 

settlers on lands in Iowa lying within :five miles of the Des Moines River 

remonstrating against the passage of the bill (S. 1886) to quiet title of 

settlers on the Des _Moines River lands, in. the State of Iowa, and for 

other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table. ~- SHERM.AN ~resented a petition of W. H. Scott, president of the 

Ohio State Urnversity, and the several professors of that institution, 

XV-277 

citizens of Columbus, Ohio, praying tha,t liberal appropriations be made 

for the support of Indian schools; which was ordered to lie on the table. 

He also presented a memorial of citizens of Newark, Ohio remon- skating agaiust governmental interference with the telegraph· which was ordered to lie on the table. ' 

COMMITTEE SERVICE. 

T_he PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair presents a letter from the 

Senator from Minnesota [Mr. SABIN] asking to be excused from further service upon the Committee on Pensions, which will be read. 

The Chief Clerk read as follows: · 

Hon. GEORGE F. EDMUNDS, 

President of the Senate: 

~hereby tend_er my resignation as a member ofthe United States Senate Committee on PensiOns. 

D. 1\I. SABI.L~. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there be no objection the Senator 

from Minnesota will be excused from further service upon the Committee on Pensions. 

Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. I ask that the vacancy caused by 

the resignation of the Senator from Minnesota as a member of the Committee on Pensions be filled by the Chair. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the Chair filling the vacan.cy in the C~mmittee on Pensions occasioned by the Senator from l\linnesota bemg excused ? The Chair hears none. The· Chair will appoint the Senator from Iowa [Mr. WILSON]. 

REPORTS OF COMMITTEES. 

Mr. MANDERSON, from the Committee on Claims to whom were 

referred the following bills, reported them adversely? and they were postponed indefinitely: ' 

A bill (S. 870) for the relief of R. G. Comb:!! and others· and 

A bill (S. 1302) for the relief of the First National Bank' of Portland 

Oreg. ' ' 

He also, from the same committee, to whom the subject was referred 

reported a bill (S. 2250) for the relief of the First National Bank of 

~ortland, Oreg., R. G. Combs, and others; which was read twice by' ita 

title. , 

Mr. HARRISON, from the Committee on Territories to whom was referred the bill (H. R. 4359) in relation to the Legislature of Dakota 

Territory, reported it without amendment. . 

Mr. INGALLS, from the Committee on the District of Columbia 

reported an amendment intended to be proposed to the bill (H. R: 

6656) making appropriations to provide for the expenses of the government of the District of Columb~ for the fiscal year ending June 30, 

1885, and for other purposes; which was referred to the Committee on Appropriations, and ordered to be printed. 

Mr. ALDRICH, from the Committee on the District of Columbia 

to whom was referred the bill (H. R. 4652) for the relief of St. Luke'~ Protestant Episcopal church, in the District of Columbia reported it 

with an amendment. ' 

He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the bill 

(S. 2045) for the relief of the Eastern Presbyterian church in the District of Columbia, reported it with an amendment. ' 

Mr. PIKE, from the Committee on the District of Columbia to whom was ref~rre~ the bill (H. R. 2858) for the relief of John Con'nolly, re- ported It Without amendment, and submitted a report thereon. 

Mr. HARRIS, from the Committee on the District of Columbia to 

whom was referred the bill (S. 2149) authorizing suits for damag~ in 

cases of death ~us~d by th~ w_rongful act, neglect, or default of a per- son or corporation m the DIStrict of Columbia, reported it with amendments. ' 

M~. HARR_IS.. The bill (S. ~588) to provide for the recovery of damages m the DIStrict of Columbia for deaths occasioned by negligence 

and for other purposes, which was referred to the Committee on th~ District of Columbia, is upon the same subject as the bill just reported, 

and therefore I move that it be indefinitely postponed. 

The motion was agreed to. 

Mr. BROWN. TheCommitteeontheDistrictofColumbia to whom was referred a petition of numerous property-holders on the' Bladensburg road, asking that an appropriation of $8,000 be made for the improvement of the road, have instructed me to report the petition back 

to th~ Senate advers~ly an_d to ask that the committee be discharged 

£:om Its further consideration. . The committee proposes an appropriatiOn of $20,000 for the general repair of the roads of the District and 

$15,000 for the Tennallytown road, which it is believed is as much as ought to be appropriated this year. We therefore think it better that 

this matter should lie o>er until the next year. 

The report was agreed to. 

BILLS INTRODUCED. 

Mr. BROWN. I introduce a bill for the relief of Francis T. Cullens, of the. State of Georgia, who is laboring under political disabilities t~t he d~~res to have removed. I also present with the bill his petitiOn admittmg that he had ~eld the po~t~on of member of the Legislature of the State of Georgia and of soliCitor-general prior to the war and that he had t&ken an oath to support the Constitution of the United 
I· 

.. 

4418 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. l\fAy 23, 

States and wa-s engaged in the rebellion. He prays that he may be 

relieved. 

The bill (S. 2251) to remove the political disabilities of Francis T. Cullens, of the State of Georgia, was read twice by its title, and, with the 

a~mpanying petition, referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin, introduced a bill (S. 2252) to compensate Miss Delphine P. Baker for expenses incurred during the war 

of the rebellion and for services performed in originating and founding the ''national homes'' for disabled soldiers and sailors of the Army 

and Navy of the United States; whic~ was read twice by its title, and 

referred to the Committee on Military Affairs. 

THE CALENDAR. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there be no " concurrent or other 

resolutions," the Chair lays before the Senate the Calendar under the 

eighth rule. Order of Business 291, being the bill (S. 764) granting 

an increase of pension to Abby P. Arnold, and Order of Business 296, 

being the bill (S. 91) for the relief of the trustees of Isaac R. Trimble, 

have been passed over, retaining their place, for reasons heretofore stated. 

They will be again passed over if there be no objection. 

OVERTON LOVE AND WYATT GILCHRIST. · 

1\fr. COKE. Yesterday the Senator from Nevada [Mr. FAIR] reported adverselv the bill (S. 803) for the relief of Overton Love and 

the administratrix of the estate of Wyatt Gilchrist, and it was inde:fi.-

• nitely postponed on his motion. I desire to ask a reconsideration of that 

action of the S~nate, and to have the bill placed upon the Calendar. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Texas moves that 

the vote of the Senate yesterday indefinitely postponing the bill named 

by him be reconsidered, and that the bill with the adverse report of 

the committee be placed on the Calendar. Is there objection? The 

Chair hears none, and it is so ordered. 

MUSTER AND PAY OF VOLUNTEER OFFICERS. 

Mr. HARRISON. I ask the "unanimous consent of the Senate to lay 

aside the Calendar temporarily in order to take up House bill355, which 

is a bill in relation to the muster and pay of officers. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is in order at this time for the 

Senator to move its consideration. 

Mr. HARRISON. I move, then, to take up the bill. It will not 

take any time, I think, to dispose of it. . • 

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the 

Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (H. R. 355) to provide for the 

muster and pay of certain officers and enlisted men of the volun r 

forces. . The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The bill was reported from the Committee on Military Affairs with an amendment, to strike out all after the 

enacting clause. Is it desired that the original bill shall be read? 

Mr. HARRISON. I see no use in reading th'e original bill. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there be no objection the reading 

at length of the part proposed to be stricken out will be omitted. The 

Chair hears no objection. The amendment proposed by the committee in the nature of a substitute will be read. · 

The Chief Clerk read as follow!'~: 

That the joint resolution approved .July 11, 1870, entitled "Joint resolution 

amendatory of 'Joint resolution for the relief of certain officers of the Army,' " approved July 26, 1866, is hereby so amended and shall be so construed that in 

all cases arising under the same any person who was duly appointed and com- missioned, whether his commission was actually received by him or not, shall 

be considered as commissioned to the grade therein named from the date when 

his commission was actually issued by competent authority, and shall be· en- titled to all pay and emoluments as if actually mustered at such date: PrO'Vided, 

That at the date of his commission he was actually performing the duties of the 

grade to which he was so commissioned, or, if not so performing such duties, then from such time after the date of his commission as he may have actually 

entered upon such duties: .An d r~ided further, That any person held as a pris- oner of war or who i:nay have been absent by reason of wounds or in hospital 

by reason of disability received in the service in the line of duty at the date of 

his commission, if a vacancy existed for him in the grade to which so commis--

sioned, shall be entitled to the same pay and emoluments as if actually per- forming the duties of the grade to which he was commissioned and actually mustered at such date: .And prdbided furllter, That this resolution and the reso- lution so amended shall not be construed to apply except only in those cases where the commission bears date prior to June 20, 1863, or after that date when 

their commands were not below the minimum number required by existing laws 

and regulations. 

SEc. 2. That the heirs or legal representatives of any officer whose muster into the service has been or shall be amended hereby shall be entitled to receive 

the arrears of pay due such officer, and the pension, if any, authorized by law, 

for the grade into which such officer is mustered under the provisions of this act. SEc. 3. That all claims arising under this a.ct shall be presented to and filed in 

the proper Department within three years from and after the pa,ssage hereof, 

and all such claims not so presented and filed within said thr~e years shall be 

forevt-r barred, and no allowance ever made thereon. 

SEc. 4. That the pay and allowances of a rank or grade paid to and received 

by any military or naval officer in good faith for services actually performed by 

such officer in such rank or grade during the war of the rebellion shall not be. charged to or recovered back from such officer because of any defect in the title 

of such officer to the office, rank, or grade in which such services were so actu- ally performed. 

Mr. HARRISON. I desire to suggest an amendment at the end of 

the first section by adding the following additionalprovic:;o: 

And prO'Videdfurther, That the pay and allowances actually received shall be 

deducted from the sums to be paid under this act. 

Mr. COCKRELL. I have no objection to that. I do not think itis 

absolutely necessary, but it makes the bill plain ·beyond all question, 

and it can do no harm possibly. 

1\fr. HARRISON. It seemed to me itwaspropertoexpressitaffirmatively. · 

The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. 1\I~DERSON in the chair). The 

question is on agreeing to the amendment proposed to the amendment 

of the committee. 

The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. 

1\fr. INGALLS. In section 1, line 27, I move to strike out the word 

"not," after" shall;" and, in line 28, to strike out the word "except," 

after "apply;" so as to read: 

That this resolution~nd the resolution so amended shaM. be construed to apply 

only in those cases where the commission bears date prior to June 20, 1863. 

Mr. HARRISON. That does not change the meaning of it at all, as I understand. 

Mr. INGALLS. It makes the meaning clearer, as I understand it. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment to the amendment. 

The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. INGALLS. In line 27 the language is "that this resolution." 

It appears by the title to be a. bill, House bill 355. If that is correct, 

the word "resolution" should be changed to "act." 

1\fr. COCKRELL. If the Senator thinks it is a little more euphonious that way, there is no objection to it. I do not think it will 

change the sense of it at all. , 

Mr. LOGAN. It is an amendment to a resolution. 

Mr. COCKRELL. It is an amendment to a resolution. 

Mr. INGALLS. But it is by a ,bill. 

Mr. COCKRELL. I understand that; but it does not make any difference whether it is a bill or a resolution. If the Senator prefers 

"bill," let it be "bill." . 

Mr. INGALLS. I have no preference one way or the other. 

Mr. HARRISON. · I think it would be correct to say "this act and 

the resolution hereby amended." 

Mr. COCKRELL. Let that amendment be made. There is no objection to it. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Chair understand that the 

Senator from Kansas moves to change the word ''resolution'' to ''act?'' 

Mr. INGALLS. If the Senator from Missouri has any objection, it 

is a matter of entire indifference to me. 

Mr. COCKRELL. No; let the word "resolution" be changed to 

"act;" soastoread: "thatthisactand the resolution hereby amended," 

striking out the word "so" and inserting "hereby," so as to make it 

correspond. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment will be reported. 

The CHIEF CLERK. In section 1, line 27, it is propo ed to strikeout 

~he word "resolution " and insert "act," and to strike out "so " and 

msert "hereby;" so as to read: 

That this act and the resolution hereby amended shall be construed t.o apply only in those cases, &c. 

The amendment to the amendment was 3.oareed to. 

The amendment as amended was agreed to. 

The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amendment was concurred in. 

The amendment was onlered to be engrossed and the bill to be read a t.hird time. · 

The bill was read the third time, and passed . 

GOVERNMENT'S INTEREST IN ENCUMBERD PROPERTY. 

Several SENATORS. The Calenda,r. 

The PRESIDING- OFFICER. The next bill in order on the Calendar under Rule VU:I will be announced. 

The CHIEF CLERK. "A bill (S. 1733) to provide for protecting the 

interests of the United States in respect of any incumbrances on property wherein they have ~ interest.'' 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. This bill, the Chair understands, has 

been reported in full to the Senate. 

Mr. BEQK. Ur. President, I asked the Senator in charge of the bill 

yesterday as to t.he extent of the power and authority given by the bill 

to certain executiveofiicersoftheGovernment, and I learned what I supposed to be the fact, from hearing the bill read, that it is an extremely tarreaching authority, extending, as was said yesterday, so as to authorize 

the payment in advance of the first moitoo-age and other prior liens upon 

the Union, the Central Pacific, and other great railroad companies upon 

which the Government has a second mortgage. I am not prepared to 

vest that power in any of the executive officers of the United States if 

any better means to protect the Government can be devised. I think 

Congress ought to act upon subjects of that magnitude before those 

matters are settled as executive' officers may see :fit to settle them. 

I suppose that no suit could be brought that would be finally acted 

upon during the interval between one session of Congress and another. 

If it is possible means ought to be devised whereby the Attorney-General of the United States or some of the officers of the Government 

should have a right to intervene and set up the claims of the United 

States and postpone action upon it, as theyco~d very readily do, until 

Congress could act. I ,have never heard that matters of so great im-
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4419 

portance as the sale of railroads were rushed through the courts of the 

United States in the course of a few months, so that the rights of the 

United States could not be protected. 

If the bill passes in its present form the moment the President and 

his advisers shall see :fit they can pay off $40,000,000 or $50,000,000 on 

the :first mortgage given by the Union Pacific Railroad in order to secure the property to the Government under the provisions of this bill. 

They can pay off all prior liens, or what they regard as such, before 

judgment. They can determine for themselves, for the tax-pay_ers of 

the country, whether the amount they propose to pay is due or not, and 

they may pay off millions of dollars more than upon :final adjudication 

would be judicially ascertained to be due. It seems to be left by this 

bill to their discretion to pay off the :first mortgage upon any terms they 

please in order to secure the property to the Government of the United 

States. That is a fearful power to vest in any other than the legislative department ofthe Government, composed of men directly responsible to the tax-payers. 

Again, if those great controverted cases in which forty, :fifty, or sixty 

millions of dollars are involved may be paid out of the Treasury of the 

United States, it may upset not only all our legislation regarding the 

appropriations necessary to carry on the Government, but it may re- quire a readjustment of all the principles of taxation of the Government as adjusted by the representatives of the people. Unless some 

extremely urgent necessity requires it I should like to see if the Judiciary Committee could not devise some other meanswherebythe interests of the Government would be protected until Congress could act 

upon it. We should at least have a chance to readjust our system of 

taxation in order to secure the money in the Treasury necessary for appropriations, outside of the amount. rendered necessary by conferring 

the absolute power to pay off without judgment what they determine 

for themselves to be the true amount of the lien that has precedence 

over the Goventtnent. 

Another serious question may be involved in regard to the Union 

or Central Pacific Railroad, or both. If those officers deem it to be 

the interest of the Government to pay off the first lien so as to secure 

the peopl-e of the United States, is it proposed that we shall take that 

property and run it, so that it may become an administrative branch 

of the Government, we employing the engineers, brakemen, and everybody, and everything connected with the roads, and then run these 

roads on our own account? That might involve questions and principles quite as dangerous as even the loss of the money, and might 

1;equire very serious consideration from Congress before we allow the 

President and the Attorney-General, or either of them, to pay the 

money that they might consider as due and to take possession of the 

rQads. . I do not suppose it would be well to compel great railroads like those 

to -be closed to the trade of the country and to the commerce of the 

world, and it would certainly be very dangerous for us to undertake to 

run them on Government account. 

All these questions are or may be involved in this bill, and seem to 

me to require careful consideration and ought to receive it now, unless 

the necessity is very urgent for aetion at this time. The Committee on 

the Judiciary seem to think that it is. I do not so regard it. That is 

the reason why I asked the questions yesterday, and the more I think 

of it the more important and dangerous the questions appear to my 

mind-not only the questions of managing railroads after we get them 

and paying off prior debts before the true amount is ascertained, but 

taking the money out of the Treasury that has been collected by taxation to provide for the ordinary appropriations of Government. Perhaps it may require a readjusting of the whole taxation of the country. 

Without the action of Congress and without legislation allowing two 

executive officers to settle such important matters seems to me to be 

dangerous. 

Mr. GARLAND. On account of our having the matters referred to 

by the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. BECK] yesterday and to-day more 

directly before the committee for examination somewhat at ,length, I 

was in hopes that there would not be a discussion in the Senate as to the 

railroads that are spoken of. It seems, however, that nothing else will 

do than a discussion here; and I think a short explanation will be very 

conclusive to the Senate, if they want to protect the interests of the 

Government. · 

The :first-mortgage bonds of the Union and Central .Pacific Railroad 

Companies become due in 1895. In the mean time they can default upon 

the paym.en tof interest at any semi~annual period, and suit can be instituted to foreclose; and then-what is the Government to do? Is she to 

stand still and let the property be sacrificed and lose the benefit of her 

lien simply because of an imaginary difficulty in the three executive 

officers here named executing this law properly? I do not think it is 

exactly right and proper. The difficulty suggested may arise after the 

adjournment of this Congress and before Congress can meet again, and 

there is no power anywhere in the law to stop it, and the security of 

the Government may be broken down and rendered of no value. 

I stated yesterday generallythe reasons which acted on the committee, outside of the railroad question, showing that a bill like this is . necessary to protect the interests of the Government. The Senator 

from Kentucky suggests that this is interfering with the financial operations of the Government and interfering also with the appropriations. 

That brings to inind the necessity for an amendment suggested to me 

yesterday by the Senator from Ohio [Mr. SHERMAN], which I will offer 

at the proper time to the bill: 

That a sum suffici-ent to carry into execution this act is hereby appropriated out of any moneys in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated. 

That reJieves the difficulty suggested by the Senator :from Kentucky 

of interfering with the appropriations: That amendment is necessary 

as suggested to me yesterday by the Senator from Ohio. That makes 

the bill complete, I think, and obviates the difficulty of inteFfering 

with the appropriations for the operations of the Government, but there 

is an imperative necessity on Congress to take some step of this sort in 

order to protect the Government in the very matter of the railroads 

referred to by the Senator from Kentuc:jry. 

Mr. BAYARD. Mr. President, unfortunately this matter is not res 

integra, but we must take things a-s we find them to-day. Already a 

construction has been given by the judicial branch which matures the 

interest paid by the United States upon bonds issued to these railroad 

companies at the termination of the loan itself, so that as the interest 

greatly exceeds the principal it can not be collected until the principal 

debt matures. I will not stop to designate such an arcangement. To 

say that it was improvident, to say that it was unbusiness-like and 

unwise, is to state the case very moderately. To state that it was inadvertent, certainly on the part of a great many of those who voted for 

these loans, is true;' but the fact is nevertheless that under the terms by 

which the credit of the United States has been advanced in the shape 

of its own bonds with interest payable thereon semi-annually at a high 

rate, loaned to these corporations, and as was intended or believed by 

many at the time to be repayable as the interest was paid out by the 

Government and become a present debt and claim against the companies. But under the interpretation of the acts given by the Supreme 

Court the repayment of its interest to the Government is postponed 

until the maturity of the principal. The result is that an unsecured 

debt to the Government for the full amount of the interest, which is 

double the principal, remains in some way to be secured by Congressional action. In the case of one railroad and one mortgage, in 1878 an 

act was passed by Congress, known as the Thurman act, which did provide for a sinking fund that should at least protect the Government of 

the United States by forcing the debtor company to provide means for 

the liquidation of the loan. 

I can but regard this proposed power as beneficial to the Government 

of the United States. There must be a judgment, a discretion somewhere deposited which shall enable the Government to take advantage 

of such means as are necessary for its OW"D: proteQtion; and Congress 

may not be in session and if it were in session you could not have 

that executive action which is necessary to be promptly exerted to be 

at all beneficial. · 

I would submit to my friend from Kentucky that we do not by thisact at all change the question of the possibility of ownership of these 

roads by the Government or the operating of these roads by the Government. I do not think any member of Congress can look forward 

with any degree of patience or consent to the Government becoming 

the owner and operator of railways. It is not a governmental function. 

It is neither :fit for the theories or the praetice of the Government of 

the United States. _ 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is the duty of the Chair to call the 

attention of the Senator from Delaware to the fact that his time has 

expired under the eighth rule. He may proceed, however, by unanimous consent. 

Mr. MORRILL. I hope there wil be no objection. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER,. Is there objection to the Senator from 

Delaware proceeding? The Chair hears no objection. 

Mr. BAYARD. I do not d.esire to detain the Senate. We stand now 

the owners and holders of a second lien. The question is whether if 

the interest upon that lien shall so increase as to jeopard both principal 

and interest, the executive branch of the Government can take steps to 

save us. I do not see in this bill any more probability of the Government being obliged to become the owner and operator of these roads by 

the passage of this bill than it is under the present provisions of law. 

The only difference is that we may obtain a power of judgment and sale 

under execution for the purpose of enforcing those liens that will protect the lien which we now hold; but I see nothing in the proposed 

law that would make it more probable that the Government will at 

any time become the owner and operator of these roads because of the 

p~ge of this bill tha.B is probable to-day under the ,existing laws 

wh1ch have been passed by Co:&gress heretofore. If I thought there 

was, I should agree with my friend from Kentucky and object to it; 

but there is nothing in this bill that will compel the Government any 

more to become the purchaser and operator of these roads than if the 

present law runs on, the difference being this: If the present laws continue in their operation, as interest is paid by the Government, it is not 

repaid by the companies and is held not to be payable until the mlturity of the princ.i_pal; and it is to the protection of the publi~ credit 

that the Government should possess itself of the first lien for the purpose of protecting the second. That is all there is in it. 

Mr. BECK. I hope I may be allowed to say a word. It is true, as 
1-

I 

4420 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. J\{AY 23, 

the Senator from Arkansa-s said to me yesterday, that perhap-s it is not these prior liens beco~g the owner of the property. That would not 

best to develop on the floor of the Senate the whole fa~ts as to the be the legal effect of it, but she would simply be then in law subromatter that might come up under this bill, but it is equally true that gated, as the bill say , put in the place of the parties who hold the prior 

in the exercise of my judgment I differed with him. lien. She does not become the owner of the property, but she simply 

In regard to the amendment suggested by the Senator from Ohio that wipes out these prior liens and gets the place of the persons who held 

the money shall be paid out of any moneys in the Treasury -of the them. 

United States not otherwise appropriated, that simply means that there Mr. SHERMAN. I can myself bear testimony to the necessit y that 

is presumably or is perhaps to be collected to meet this contingency a is important often to the nation to have a bill like this on the statutesurplus beyond the needs of .the Government of from 1ifty to sixty book, for I have known several cases where the United States have lost 

millions, which shall remain in the Treasury as unappropriated money. large sums of money by inability to pay liens upon property that it 

That is o1,1e of the worst possible contingencies that could happen. It acquired by purchase at sale. I remember one case that occurred in 

only means additio.nal taxation. That does not relieve the objection I Pennsylvania, where property was acquired by the failure of a national 

have, but rather aggravates it. Now, how is it or how may it be in bank. The Government was compelled to buy in that property, but 

regard to the purcha-se of these roads? The bill says: · for want of means to pay off prior liens, and also to pay the taxes and to 

That whenever in the opinion of the President it shall be deemed expedient make proper and legal examination of the title, the Government prac- and neces ary to the protection of the interests and the preservation of the se- tically lost its lien. This may occur in all the purcha-ses at sales of 

curity of the United States in respect of their lien, mortgage, or other intere t property under the internal-revenue laws. The power ought to exist 

in any propert.y upon which a lien, mortgage, or other incumbrance paramount somewhere promptly to pay off taxes or other liens, because if the Gov- to the right, title, or interest of the United Stat~ for the same property may exist, the Secretary of the Treasury shall, under the direction of the President, ernment purcha-ses property it purchases it like any citizen, subject to 

redeem or otherwise clear off such paramount lien, mortgage, or other inoum- all_liens, and they should be promptly P!l>id, and sometimes they mu t 

brance by paying the sums lawfully due} n respect thereof out of the Treasury. be promptly paid, or the right of the Government may be lost. 

I assert with all due respect to the Judiciary Committee that the pro- Mr. BECK. The Senator from Ohio will allow me to say that yesposed authority vested in executive officers by this bill is a. terrific terday I suggested, and I suggest again, that some discretion t.o cover power. They are to determine the amount due; they are to pay the that class of cases might very safely be vested in the Executive. It is 

money out of the Trea-sury; they are not even to wai~ for a judgment only when it comes to extensive matters that Congress ought to exer- or decree of a court; and wheri they do pay it, if the Government be- cise some control. 

comes the ownerofthe propertybyvirtueofpayingofftheprior lien, if Mr. SHERM:.AN.- The only case Iknow of where a large amount of 

anything else is to happen but running the road I can not see what is property is subject to a prior lien is the case of the Union and Central 

to follow unless the road is to be closed altogeth~r, as the act would Pacific Railroad-Companies. I believe that by the terms of the mort- assume the utter unfitness of the present railroad management to carry gages is'3ued in those cases on the failure to make a single payment of 

it on. interest the principal becomes due. That is a common provision in 

I was one of those who voted for and urged and advocated as well as railroad mortgages. If there could be-I do not think such a. thing 

I knew bow the passage of the Thurman bill in order to place such would ever occur, because there is an immense amount of property inpowers in the hands of the Government, and such limitations and re- vested in these roads that lies behrnd the lien of the Government-I do 

straints on the railroad companies as were possible to secure the collec- not believe that such a contingency need be provided for; but if it 

tion of the debt due the United States. In answer to the suggestion should occur so that there was an intention on the part of the owners of 

of the Senator from. Arkansas I see no reason why we should notre- these railroads to impair the lien of the Government to some extent by 

quire the companies to pay their accruing interest at least out of their mal..-ing a default in the payment of their interest and thus precipitate 

surplus funds, or at least to keep enough money on hand to pay off the proceedings to sell the property subject to the mortgage, that con tininterest for a series of years in advance, or we can pass a law now au- gency ought to be provided against promptly. 

thorizing our officials to demand deposits of money sufficient to prevent Mr. BECK. Allow me to suggest again that there can be no diffithem from withholding the interest as it fell due, then we could pass culty by a proper amendment to the Thurman act, out of the surplus we such additional measures as will a-dd to our security without absolutely require the companies to lay up every year, to provide that sufficient 

paying off the whole debt the companies owe as a first mortgage. If of that shall be applied to meet the interest. 

the companies allow the interest to go by default why could not the 1\Ir. SHERMAN. I am not here to say as to the form in which the .Judiciary Committee frame a law amending the Thurman bill so as to subject should be presented; but as to any danger from the abuse of 

require that the moneys they are now ordered to hold to comply with such a power as is here conferred, I do not think there is any wbattheirobligationsshall be applied to the payment of interest and that they ever. Where a great power of that kind is oonferred upon the Presishall not make default in the payment of such interest, but let the dent, the power for instance to suspend the law that prohibits the imsurplus which the Thurman bill requires them to bold be applied to portation of ca,ttle or a hundred other great powers that are conferred 

any default of interest, and require that to be so done as to make it on the President, those powers areneverexercisedexcept under extreme 

impossible that any snap judgment, if any is ever sought, be taken dur- circumstances which in the opinion of Congress would justify the exing any recess of Congress. ercise of extreme powers. No Secretary of the Treasury, no President 

In regard to small matters, as I said yesterday when we have a lien of the United States would dare to take from the Treasury fifty or sixty on a distillery I would authorize them to pay it and take the chances; or seventy milliondollars upon a general authority of this kind, unless 

but when you come to deal with millions, perhaps fifty, sixty, or sev- in a case of extreme atringency. I do not believe such a case can arise 

enty millions, when you come to deal with great matters such as the under the Pacific Railroad grants; but still if there is even a fear that 

control of railroads, the case is different. We have power over them it may arise or a possibility that it may arise, I would place somewhere, as we showed we had by_the passage of the Thurman bill, which I am in the hands of an executive officer, the power to meet the difficulty 

sorry to say has not worked as satisfactorily as I thought it would so with a certainty that he would not abuse so great a power, forifhedid 

far as the Union Pacific Railroad is concerned, and which I hope before he would be subject to impeachment. 

Congress adjourns will be made so strong and pronounced that the No man could be presumed to abuse a power of this kind. A Presicompanies will be compelled to comply with all the requirements not dent under such a power would do nothing more probably than to assert 

only of that law but of any proper amendment that can be made to it the right of the United States to pay off the prior lien and then to be so as to prevent the possibility of default on account of interest. There subrogated as first mortgagee instead of second mortgagee. Such a is nothing that willsecurethepropertyandinterestoftheUnitedStates power might sometimes be necessary to be asserted by the .Attorneywhich is within the control of the law-making power that I will not General in a suit pending whe~e it might be necessary for the United 

vote for and advocate to the extent of my ability; yet I can not help States Government to step forward and tender a few thousand dollars 

objecting to giving this absolute and ·indefinite power to any executive or a few hundred thousand dollars, or even a million dollars, to raise 

officer, however trustworthy, so as to take it out of the hands of Con- the question as to the right of the Government to make this tender in 

gress, without making any effort by amendment to the Thurman or order to be substituted as first mortgagee. 

some other act, or by the exercise of any other additional authority It seems to me, therefore, that there is no danger from the exercise 

against the Union Pacific Railroad. I think we ought to keep all these of this power; but if it is to be exercised I suggested yesterday an great powers under the control of the law-making power, which is amendment to the Se:pator from Arkansas that I think will be neces- vested in these representatives of thepeople and not in executive offi- sary to be inserted. In line 13, after tlieword "Treasury," the ordi- cers. It does not seem to me to be wise legislation to surrender our nary formal words of an appropriation should be inserted. 

power to the President or anybody else. I may stand alone in that The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Ohio submits an 

view, but that is my belief and opinion. amendment which will be read. 

Mr. GA.RLA.ND. I will state to the Senator from Kentucky, par- The CHIEF CLERK. In line 13, after the word" Treasury," it is 

ticularly with reference to the Thurman act and all such matters, that proposed to insert: 

there is before the committee now a bill covering the subject, and it And the sum necessary to carry this act into effect is hereby appropriated out 

will come necessarily at the proper time before the Senate, as it is now of any moneys in t!Je Treasury not otherwise appropriated. 

before the House, if I may speak from the public records. This is an- Mr. GARLAND. I have no objection to that amendment. 

other matter giving a certainty of security to a certain extent to the The amendment wa-s agreed to. -

Government outside of such measures. Mr. MORGAN. Yesterday it was suggested by the Senator from 

The Senator is mistaken about the Government when she pays off Kentucky that a very heavy debt might be thrown upon the Govern-
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. 4421 

ment of the United States by giving this discretionary power to the 

President, the amount of which has not been ascertained, as to which 

there has been really no judicial examination or decree, and that is a · 

trouble about this bill it seems to me which is not provided for so far as I am able to discern in any part of the text. I think the bill would 

be better if the committee would allow it to be amended in this way: 

In line 9 after the word '' exist,'' insert the words ''after the amount 

of such lien, mortgage, or incumbrance, shall have been ascertained and 

settled by the judgment or decree of a court of competent jurisdiction.'' 

Then the bill would provide that the President shall proceed to pay o:ff 

the incumbrance, mortgage, or lien, whatever it may be, after a court 

of competent jurisdiction has ascertained and determined by its decree 

the amount of it and of course the validity of it. I think that that is 

a necessary caution to put in the bill. 

It is very true that the Attorney-General is the legal adviser of the 

President and would act cautiously about a matter of this kind. Still 

it might turn out after a litigation between the parties that the mortgage which was set up in the first instance and upon which proceedings were being instituted to foreclose or to sell was not a valid security, or 

was not a valid security for the amount claimed, or was not a paramount 

lien upon the property. 

Now, what would betheprocedureinacaseofthis kind? The bondholding creditors holding the first lien on the property would go into 

court with a bill of foreclosure and sale. Thereupon all incumbrancers 

subsequent perhaps, or at least the railroad company, would be made a 

party defendant, and· a litigation would ensue through which it would 

be ascertained whether or not this was a valid lien, and the amount of 

it and the extent of the lien. After that had been done and the report 

of the master had come in and been confirmed, then the order of sale 

would be passed by the court. Up to that moment of time the interests of the Government of the United States are not put in jeopardy. 

The property remains in the hands of the corporation, not dispossessed 

of it at all by any decree of the court, and then it would be that a subsequent mortgage ought to have the right, and would have the right, to come in and redeem the property by paying off the prior mortgage and 

being subrogated to the rights of the first mortgagee. 

So I think that the committee will see that an amendment of the character I propose would make the bill more secure. The President and 

the Attorney-General would proceed after the prope.r court had declared 

the amount of the lien and its validity and its paramount charaeter, and 

every faet about it had been judicially ascertained, to pay off the incumbrance or to arrange it in some manner by which the United States 

Government would become subrogated to the rights of the first mortgagee. · Mr. BECK. Will the Senator from Alabama allow me to suggest that 

his amendment as far as it goes is all right, but a case of this sort might 

arise: Suppose a prior lien was of an amount which was more than the 

property was worth, ought the President or the Attorney-General to 

have the right to pay, as he seems to be requir-ed to pay here in advance, 

the whole first mortgage, no matter how much it might be? 

Mr. MORGAN. I would say yes, because it is a judicial question, 

and under our Constitution and system of laws this question must be 

decided by the judicial department. If the court pronounces a judgment after a fair hearing betweeJl the parties, ascertaining a certain 

fact and giving a certain decree, I amfor theenforcement ofthatjudgment if every man in the United States was to say no. There is a judicial and final determination ofthe rights ofthe parties by a tribunal 

that we organize and against which we can not be hea:r:d to complain 

except by .a proceeding in the nature of an appeal or motion for a new trial. When a decree has been honestly made, though mistaken, it is 

a decree, and it is the duty to have it paid off, though every man in 

the United States might think it erroneous. If it were against me, it 

would be my duty to satisfy the decree pronounced against me by the 

court, though I might think, in my conscience, it was the most cruel 

outrage a court had ever perpetrated upon individual man. The Government in the case here supposed would be a party litigant and must 

be bound by the decree of the court. 

I think that answers the possible objection made by the Senator from "Kentucky, and I believe that would make the bill entirely safe, and it 

wbuld relieve the Administration also from the necessity of assuming 

in advance ofa decree ofthe court the amount that might be due upon a mortgage and also the validity of it as a paramount or prior lien upon 

the property. I offer the amendment. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Alabama offers an 

amendment, which will be read. 

The SECRETARY. In line 9, after the word" exist," it is proposed 

to insert: ; 

liens. All this matter was considered before the committee in reference 

to guarding the bill in this way and in other ways. You must leave 

the aut.hority, if you give it at all, unrestricted, and necessarily you 

must take the risk of the executive department judging correctly in 

the particular case. It is the President of the United States, the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Attorney-Gen~ral whq are to act. I 

do not know how much more security we could have. The amendment offered by the Senator from Alabama, if the Senate will look at 

the whole purport of the bill and the evils that are supposed to be in 

the way, they will see destroys the effect of the bill. You must give 

this power to them, to be exerted under the circumstances, to determine the matter, and not wait for the decision of a court to be presented to them, because in many instances all that is worth contending 

for will have been wasted away in the mean time. I hope the Senate 

will not adopt the amendment offered by the Senator from Alabamn.. :Mr. MORGAN. I have a right to reply, as I have not spoken once on the amendment since I offered it. 

The Senator from Arkansas is worried with unnecessary apprehensions on the subject of the wastage of the property in the. hands of its 

owner, the corporation, or in the hands of any person else during the 

time that a proceeding might be pending in court for the foreclosure 

of the mortgage. The company which is the owner of the property 

has it in possession. The creditor proceeds to foreclose his mortgage 

by a suit in equity. He files his bill against the defendant in, I will 

say, a circuit court of the United States. That court having full jurisdiction and the custody of the property, upon the filing of the bill 

naturally can protect it against any loss or waste that may be incidental to the property during the pendency of the suit by the appointment of a receiver, if the company will not deal properly with it, or · in any other way that may be necessary. There is no more danger of 

the wastage of the property because a bill of foreclosure is filed by a 

creditor than there is iu the ab ence of such a bill. The company has 

precisely the same interest pending a suit for foreclosure to take care of its property that it has in the absence of such a suit or before such a suit is brought. That argument falls to the ground, and that being 

the only suggestion made by the Senator from Arkansas why my amendment destroys the effect of the bill, I think that the suggestion is not 

valid. 

Mr. BECK. Allow me to suggest that if the President undertakes 

to pay it off before the judgment of the court, how is he to ascertain 

the amount? 

Mr. MORGAN. It can not be done and no prudent man would do 

it; no prudent second mortgagee would do it. A second mortgagee 

paying off the debt of a railroad company would be a very imprudent man if he should assume that that.debt amounted to so many million · 

of qollars and pay it off before any decree of the court had been pronounced to ascertain what the actual amount due was. I maintain that there is no necessity for such stringency as the Committee on the Judiciary have put into this measure. This is a tremendous affair. Here is a debt amounting to fifty or sixty millions of dollars-I can not precisely tell the amount--at this moment of time against 

the railroad company in favor of the Government of the United States, 

in consequence of the fact that by the legislation of Congress we have 

taken that which was a second mortgage and made it a prior mortgage 

to that of the Government of the United States. Who holds this prior 

mortgage; what is the amount of it; and what offsets or claims may 

the Government of the United States have against it as second mortgagee? What right may the Government of the -pnited States have to 

say that equitably a part of the debt included within the first mortgage has been paid, or settled, or waived, or barred by the statute of 

limitations, or in any other way extinguished? 

Now, sir, for the Presidentofthe United States, thoughhemayhave 

the assistance of his Secretary of the Treasury and his Attorney-General, to .undertake to step into the shoes of the courts of the country 

and ascertain in limine the whole amount of the indebtedness to be 

paid off, and take upon himself all the.labors and duties and cares which 

devolve upon a court in a bill of foreclosure in a great case like this, 

would be to assume the most enormous power over the finances of the 

United States and its Treasury that has ever been committed to an ex- ecutive officer. We do not hesitate to int.rust the President of the 

United States with a sum of two or three hundred thousand dollars as a contingent fund for the conduct of foreign diplomacy; but if you were to make that sum fifty or sixty million dollars for any purpose 

that we might imagine would be beneficial to the Government of the 

United States, such for instance .as the purchase of Cuba, or the purchase of the right of way across the Isthmus. of Tehuantepec, or Nicaragua for a canal, you would find that the people of the United States 

After the amount of such lien, mortgage or incumbrance shall have been would rebel at the idea of our placing in his charge such an enormous ascertained and settled by the judgment or decree of a. court of competent juris- mass of power as that would be. . 

diction. · . Who are the holders of the first-mortgage bonds of the Union and 

Mr. GARLAND. The amendment destroys the purposes of the bill . . Central Pacific Railroad Companies? I do not know who they are, 

If the executive department of the Government has to wait until a but I am persuaded from the public evidence daily given out in the 

judicial ascertainment of these matters, in m~ny instances it would newspapers that they are already mainly, if not entirely, in Wall street, 

not amount to anything at all; the property would be wasted, the lien in New York; and those bonds are made to-day the basis of speculation 

would be lessened in value, and it would not be worth the trouble of in the stock markets of that great city. The prices run up and they 

the Executive or any other person interfering and pa.~g off the prior run do"Wl\ of the very mortgage bonds that we are speaking about now, 
. ' 

4422 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. MAY 23, 

and the power to redeem which it is demanded shall be placed in the taken upon this question ought to be taken by Congress. If the debt 

handsofthe ·President, his SecretaryoftheTreasury, and his Attorney- that is due to the Government of the United States is endangered froin 

General. Who are the owners of them? We do not know who they any reason, Congress ought to assume the responsibility of directing 

are. We do not know what demands tqe Government of the United such action to be taken as will protect the interests of the United 

States may have against those very men for deposits in broken banks States. 

that we h ave breaking every day around us. We do not know what The same reason th.:'l.t would direct the policy of giving to the Presioff-sets and claims this Government may have that th~e very bonds dent a discretion to act is imperative that Congress should act. If 

are extinguished i.n'-the hands of the holders, and we put the power in there is any reason for the passage of this bill giving the President of 

the hands of the President of the United States to determine the whole the United States a discretion to pay off this lien, then certainly Consubject and refuse to allow it to go to a court, becausi3 we are afraid the gress should assume the responsibility of directing positively that it 

property in the mean time might possibly be wasted in some way. . should be done. It seems very clear to my mind that it is t he duty 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is the duty of the Chair to call the of Congress to determine when so large an amount of money shall be 

attention of the Senator from Alabama to the fact that his time has appropriated out of the Treasury for any purpose, rather than to imexpired under the rule. pose that duty upon the discretion of any other department of the 

1\Ir. MORGAN. We can not argue this bill as it ought to be argued, Governnient. · 

under this rule. I object to the further consideration of the bill, and If gentlemen are right, as i't would seem as the facts stand that they 

ask that it go over under Rule IX, or·elselet the Senate take it up not- are, that there iS some aetion necessary to be taken that this vast sum 

withstanding the objection, so that-it may be properly debated:: I ob- of money is in danger from any cause, either from error in the original 

ject to the further consideration of the bill. . act or from error in the administration of the property, the facts cer- Mr. GARLAND. Then in the discharge of my duty I move that tainly ought to be made clear to Congress, and it should have no hesthe Senate proceed to the consideration of the bill notwithstan~g itation in passing a bill directing the President positively what to do 

the objection. . in the premises for the protection of the Government, directing him if 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is moved by the Senator from there be no other more expedient and wiser method to pay this prior 

Arkansas that t he Senate proceed to the consideration of the bill not- lien, to ascertain judicially, if necessary, the amount of the debt, and 

withstanding the objection. to free the property from incumbrances and expose it for sale for the 

The motion was agreed to. reimbursement of the Government. 

Mr. MORGAN. I am very glad the Senate hBB taken that course, For that reason, sir, I think in so important a matter as this the bill 

· because-- errs in allowing the object it proposes to be accomplished to rest entirely 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair understands the vote of in the discretion of the executive department of the Government. 

the Senat e takes the bill out oftlie five minutes' limitation of debate. Mr. SLATER. 1\Ir. President, this bill involves a propo ition that 

Mr. MORGAN. Mr. President, I hope the Senate will give· atten- it seems to me ought to ha>e more attention than has been given it betion to this ubject, for it is a very important one. I stated a moment fore we pass a bill of t his character. If the Government is to assume 

~o that I did not know and I suppose no Senator on this floor knows the payment of the first-mortgage bonds in addition to the bonds it has 

to-day how many bonds are due or how much money is due to what issued itself, then the bill is in the right direction; but before we unare called the first-mortgage bondholders of the Union and Central Pa- dertake to pay, in addition to the bonds the Government has advanced 

cific Railroad Companies. We do not know, ·as I have stated, who holds to this road and the interest accumulated at the maturity of the bonds, 

those bonds. The account has not been settled. Suppose that these the first-mortgage bonds which have been allowed to be issued by the 

railroad companies, having equitably extinguished a large portion of companies, it ~eems to me that we ought to take an account in some 

this debt, or desiring for their own purposes to allow this debt to pile way or other of the value of this property, that we may know whether 

. up as against themselves in order to extort from the Government of the we shall not squander other millions in addition to the millions alUnited States a large amount of money by their redemption, one of the ready gone. 

companies meets, with its bondholders and stockholders, the persons In lookingatthestatementofthe conditionofthese roads I find that 

interested in the company being doubtless largely the bondholders, the Union Pacific on the debit side of its account has 82,000,000 of 

they would say, ' ' The Congress of the United States have passed a bill debts in addition to $33,000,000 Government bonds, in addition to about 

by which the President is authorized to redeem t his property, and an $30,000,000 intere5t on these bonds which were advanced to t he comappropriation has been made of money sufficient to pay the debt; we , pany. The classifications are as follows: 

will state an account batween ourselves and the bondholders, a;nd in LIABILITIES. 

doing so we will only be careful to have the amount very large, for the Funded debt .............................. ..................................................... $82, 555,053 75 

.reason that we know that we hold over the Government of the United Interest on same, accrued but not due...... ...................................... 2, 049, 600 74 

States a power of foreclosure which will take this property entirely United States subsidy bonds ........................................................... 33,539, 512 00 fr d h d . h . will . d Interest on same, accrued but not due............................................ 29,074, 812 78 om un er t e secon mortgage, masmuc as 1t come m an .con- Dividends unpaid....... ...................................................... ............. 1, 123, 371 14 

sent to pay the amountwe shall say among ourselves is due upon these Floating debt: bonds." - Bills payable ........................................................ $3,879,707 61 / 

I Pay-rolls and vouchers........................................ 2, 239, 866 99 t makes no difference who may be President or Secretary of the • Accounts payable ................................................ 4,635,317 27 

Treasury or Attorney-General, the company have got the advantage of 10,754,891 87 

!~:S~~~::::: ~!t l~~P~~~~e~v~~ -#~f~:~~!;~!o~~~~~ Capi~ s~c~~~~:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::·:.:::::::::·.:::::::::::·:.:·.:::::::::·::.:·:.:: . ~·.m:~ ~ .A statement of an account for bonds and interest due; I will say that Total stock s.nd debt .............................................................. 219, 965, 742 28 '· it amounts to $80,000,000, when a court on a fair investigation of the 

account might bring the amount down to $60,000,000. They state their Turning to the Central Pacific, I find the statement of its account as account to the President when he comes to redeem, and he is compelled follows: 

to take their statement of it and redeem the property, or elsehe is 

bound to go into court and file a bill for an injunction on the ground 

that they are perpetrating a fraud and thereby getting into the meshes 

and tangle oflitigation. He must either do thelatterorpaythatdebt 

under the penalty of having the property sold and the title pass into 

the hands of third persons discharged of all liens and incumbrances 

whatever. 

I say, sir, that is a dangerous power to intrust; and the correspondLIABILITIES. 

Funded debt .................................................................................... $54, 206, 000 00 Interest on same, accrued but not due.. .......................................... 1, 352, 655 80 

United States subsidy bonds........................................................... 27, 855, 680 00 

Interest on same, aoorued but not due............................................ 23, 449,463 41 Floating debt: 

~~~r:~~~~bi~-:~:::::~: :::::::: :.·::.·::::::::::::: :::::::::. ~.~~ ~ Interest and dividends unpaid............................. 23,71.5 00 

9,633,98814 

:~~q~~~~!Y .:~~~~p~~e~h~~:~r: e~~:~\t~eS::i~h~ :~~~e !!~ Ca itit s~~~~~:::::::::::: ::::·.:::: :::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::. 1~: m: ~ ~ selves in by passing the bill without the restriction contained in the 

amendment which I have had the honor to offer, for I really can not see after looking the matter over how it can be possible that the property will be necessarily injured, or will probably be injured by the fact 

that the President of the United States is not allowed to pay off this 

lien until after a court has by its aecree ascertained and settled the. 

amount that is due to the first-mor4:,aage bondholders. It would be an 

unsafe and an unwise way to transaet business, and there is scarcely a 

gentleman in the Senate, I think, who would empower an agent w'ith 

a full power. of attorney to go and make settlement and make payment 

of existing prior incumbrances to his own mortgage, leaving it to him 

to determine according to his own judgment the amount that might be 

due. It is a dangerous power, and one that we ought not to confide in 'the hands of anybody but a-court. 

Mr. CALL. Mr. President, it seems to me that whateve~ aetion is 

Total stock and debt .................................................. ............ 175,773, 286 55 

Putting these various sums together, being the sums which the Gov- ernment must liquidate in order to put itself in the position of the 

prior mortgagees and be subrogated to the rights and relations of the 

first-mortgage bondholders, the account would foot up in this way: 

The Union Pacific, $33,539,512; Cen!iral Pacific, $27,449,463; making 

a total of subsidy bonds of the United States to these two roads in 

round numbers of $62,0001 000. The interest accrued at maturity will 

be about $65,000,000. 

In addition to that the law which made the originally subsequent 

mortgage bonds of the company the first-mortgage bonds and gave them a prior lien to the bonds of the United States are equal to the subsidy 

bonds of the United States. Consequently the bonds to be redeemed 

would be $62,000,000, making th~ subsidy bonds of the United States 
,, 

1884. CON-GRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4423 

and the first-mortgage bo~ds about $124,000,000, to which you must 

add $65,000,000 interest, making the road stand the Government 

$189,000,000, or about that, when we have put the Government in the 

position of being the fust-mortgage bondholder. 

The question arises here: is this road, when we shall have reached 

that time in 1895 or somewhere about there, worth thissumofmoney? 

I undertake to say that a behterroad can be built for a vastly less sum, 

and I doubt the propriety of our puttingourklves without more information in the position of attempting to save one dollar out of this 

wreck. It is of a class of legislation that we have had for the past 

twenty-four years touching corporations. Wherever we touch those 

statutes we find the same kind of results. Wherever the Government 

has entered upon this kindoflegislation it has fallen into a trap, while 

the corporations have got away with the swag. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the amendment 

proposed by the Senator from Alabama [1\fr. MORGAN]. 

Mr. MORGAN. At the suggestion of the Senator frQJD Ohio I wish 

to modify my amendment. I withdraw the amendment I offered to come in at line 9, and I will offer the amendment which I now send to 

the desk to come in after the word ''made,'' on line 17. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Alabama withdraws 

his amendment and offers another, which will be read. 

The SECRETARY. After the word ''made;" in line 17, it is proposed 

to insert: 

PrO'IJided, That if the lien, incumbrance, or mortgage to be paid off or removed 

is upon the property of a railroad company, the same shall not be paid by the 

United States until after the validity and amount of such lien, mortgage, or in- cumbranc& shall have been ascertained and settled by the judgment or decree 

of a court of competent jurisdiction. 

Mr. G A.RLA.ND. I ask for the yeas and nays on that. 

The yeas and nays were ordered. 

Mr. MORGAN. I modified the original amendment on the suggestion of the Senator from Ohio [Mr. SHERMAN]. Tlie point had escaped me that there were a great many cases, to some of which he referred a 

while ago, in which the Government would have an interest in property, and it would be the duty of the Government acting wisely to remove an existing incumbrance or mortgage. They are matters of 

course, small matters, not tremendous matters. We have some railroad companies-! believe only two, the Union and Central Pacificupon which we have second-mortgage rights. I have modified my , amendment and put it in the form of a proviso so as to make it applicable to cases of that character, so that when a question of the ·priority of mortgages and the amount of mortgages arises in a suit of foreclosure, for instance, upon the property of a railroad company, then the 

President and his Secretary of the 'i'reasury and Attorney-General shall 

not proceed to remove that incumbrance until after the .court has as- certained the validity of the lien and the amount of it. 

It is not necessary for me to amplify the argument I have already 

made on that question. 

Mr. FARLEY. I wish to ask theSena.torfromA.labama a question. 

Suppose it should turh out that the mortgage of the prior lien should 

amount to more than the property was worth, would the Government 

still be compelled to pay that lien in addition to what the Government 

might have a lien for itself? 

Mr. MORGAN. That is the same point, as I understand, that was suggested by the Senator from Oregon [Mr. SLATER]. It is a very 

strong point and one that deserves consideration, and I took it for 

granted that th~ Senator from Oregon would take care of that feature 

of the bill if he desired to offer an amendment to it. My purpose is 

confined to what I consider to beadiscreet method of procedure in the 

ascertainment of the amount of thMe mortgages and the question of 

how much we ought to pay. 

Mr. GARLAND. I will not repeat the argument I made a few mo- ments ago as to this amendment eviscerating the bill, taking all there 

is in it worth anything out of it, simply turning it around back to. 

where we are now. But in reference to the statement made by the 

Senator from Oregon, I wish to say a word. He presumes that the 

three officers designated here may do something wrong and pay much more than the road is worth to get these prior liens out of the way. 

On that presumption he attacks the proposed law. That is a vicious 

mode of reasoning. We have to take risks about this somewhere; we must take chances; and it is not to be presumed that these three officers 

will give their consent to pay $1891 000,000, as by the Senator stated, 

for a prior security on a road not worth $40,000,000. That is hardly 

probable. 

Of course when we get angels or some beings a little above angels to 

administer government, there will be no necessity for putting in restrictions on power; but nowwehavetovestpowersomewherein the hands 

of men. We have given it here to three leadingofficersoftheGovernment, and I do not presume they will ~ deliberately to work to give 

this large amount of money because it IS in their discretion to do it; it 

is not compulsory on them to do it. Their power is to preserve the 

lien of the Government, whatever it may be, whether second, third, or fourth, and to adopt this amendment, even as modified by the Senator 

from Alabama, only turns us around an& leaves ns where we are now. l'rlr. MORGAN. I confess that I do not appreciate that statement of 

the Senator from Arkansas. Certainly it is not my purpose to defeat 

the bill. I think the bill is a good measure. •I think it needs the 

guard I have put into it when we come to dea,l with this enormously 

great question concerning railroad corporations and the amonntofmoney 

we should advance, amounting to $80,000!000, as the Senator from 

Oregon says, for the removal of prior incumbrances. How can it eviscerate this bill, or bow can it destroy its effect if we should require that a court shall ascertain what the amount of the mortgage is and its validity before we proceed ~ pay it off? How can that be the effect? 

Somebody has got to ascertain it. It must be done by a court or by 

the President, one of the two; and my habits of thought during life 

have been always to relegate judicial questions to judicial tribunals. I 

would like to relieve the Administration of any duty of ascertaining 

the amount due upon these mortga-ges, aud whether or not the Government of the United States may not have equitable offsets against 

the holders of these bonds, and a great number of questions that might 

arise between the Government and the holders of the bonds that we propose to pay off. The difference between the Senator· from Arkansas 

and myself is only this: He proposes that the President shall have 

power to pay off the mortgage before anythi.Bg is done even in the nat- ure of a proceeding to sell or a proceeding to foreclose. I propose that 

we shall wait until there is a proceeding to sell or a proceeding to foreclose by the creditors secured by the prior mortgage, and that after they 

have proceeded to the degree of ascertaining the validity of their mortgage and the amount of their debt, then the President may pay it. In 

that way he prevents the sale; in that way he becomes subrogated to 

the rights of the first mortgagee, steps in his shoes; he prevents the sale 

of the property, and that is what I understand to be one of the purposes of this bill. It is to keep the property in the hands of the corporation mortgagor, and not to take it into the hands of the Government of the United States. 

I would most cheerfully adopt the view of the Senator from Oregon 

and abandon this debt and enter a retra:z;it upon it or a full satisfaction 

to-day by my vote if I could give it in the Senate of the United States, 

in preference to having the ownership of the property and operating it 

by this Government. I would not see the Government of the United 

States the owner and controller and operator of the Union and Central 

Pacific Railroads for any consideration scarcely that could be named, 

bringing this Government in competition with the Northern Pacific, 

the Texas Pa.cific, the Atlantic and Pacific, and the Nicaraguan CanaJ. 

and with the ships that carry commerce around from New York to San 

Francisco, and all the transportation lines in the carrying of the com- merce of the country. It is something that I can not look upon with 

the least degree of favor. I understood the object of the bill to be to 

prevent two things, :first that the railroad company should lose its property into the hands of other persons who might become the purchasers 

under a dedree of foreclosure, and secondly to prevent the Government 

of the United States from being under the necessity of taking charge , 

of this property. 

Mr. BAYARD. May I ask my friend from Alabama, does he consider: that this bill provides, in a certain event of threatened loss to the 

Government, a way of self-protection to pay off a lien or mortgage and 

become subrogated to the rights of the mortgagee under that? Does he 

consider that it would be more likely to make the Government the owner and operator of any of the property, railroad or ·other, upon 

which these mortgages rest, than it is at the present time? Already 

the Government is a mortgagee, but it is the holder of a second or a postponed mortgage. Is there any greater probability of its becoming . 

owner by being obliged to become the purchaser at a sale under this 

bill than there is at the present time? If so, I strangely mistake the 

facts. 

This bill provides that in case the safety, the security of the GoverBment for the lien that it already holds, and the amount that it bas already advanced should become in any way jeoparded by the action of 

the company, s6 as to make it advisable that the Government should 

become the purchaser of the first lien, then that shall be done, and the 

Government then would become subrogated to all therigbtsofthefirst 

lien holders, but that would not require the Government to become the owner and the operator of the road. It would be the owner of the first 

mortgage, but not the owner of the road. It would be the controller 

of the mortgage, but not the controller of the operations of the road. 

That is what I understand by this bill. 

I submit to my friend from Alabama and to the Senate that there is 

no condition of affairs contemplated in which the Government will become the owner of this railway; but in the present condition, for the 

sake of protecting a lien which we now hold, there should be the power 

to purchase a prior lien. It is one of those discretions that every intelligent owner of property is very desirous to obtain, and that is to purchase a prior incumbrance for the purpose of protecting and making 

more valuable the second. That is a question of simple business wisdom, a simple matter of the judicious exercise of mere discretion, and 

I do not see in the present bill anything which proposes that the Government shall become the owner of the road. It does propose that it 

may become in a certain contingency the owner of the prior mortgage, so that it may be able to protect its present interest.. 

Mr. BECK. The Senator from Delaware is a member of the commit-
. 

'· 

4424 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. MAY 23, 

teethatreported thisbill; and !wish to askhim whatobjection he sees to the amendment 6>f the Senator from Alabama that the amount shall 

:first be ascertained by a judicial decision before the President shall be 

authorized to pay it off. The Senator knows that it is charged and 

believed that many of the mortgage bonds issued by the Union Pacific were given fraudulently to the Credit Mob iller and to all sorts of things. 

Now until they have been judicially determined to be just, valid, and 

honest liens, ought we to trust the President or anybody to pay them 

off, or ought we not to have the judgment of a court that they are valid 

before we pay them? 

ltlr. BAYARD. If this were a claim for unliquidated damages, I 

could understand the necesmtyfor theinterpositionofsome tribunal to 

ascertain the amount; but this is the case of recorded, established, as- certained liens (whatever might be the equitable defense if such a thing now could arise on bonds which are in the hands of third parties so that it is scarcely possible), and I think any advantage to be 

gained by this law would be lost by the postponement of the power to 

purchase the first lien outstanding and to protect thereby the second if 

it was subjected to the slow process and the very dilatory proceedings 

of our courts, especially if we are to wait for a final decision in the Supreme Court of the United States. In other words, before a decision 

would be reached, the evil would be accomplished. · Mr. MORGAN. The members of the Judiciary Committee ought to 

know, if they do not, and I am sure they do, that this property can 

not be swept out of the hands of the United States as second mortgage 

without the intervention of a court of justice. An order of publication and sale by the trustees of this property would at once bring the 

Government of the United States into court for the purpose of redeeming the property or ascertaining its rights in the premises. More than 

that--

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Alabama will 

please suspend. The hour of 2 o'clock having arrived, it is the duty 

of the Chair t{) lay before the Senate the unfinished business of yesterday, being Senate bill1283. 

ADJOURNMENT TO MONDAY. 

ltlr. BAYARD. I move that when the Senate adjourn to-day it adjourn to meet on Monday next. The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is moved by the Senator from Delaware that when the Senateadjourn to-day it adjourn tomeeton Monday next. 

Mr. ALLISON. I ask the Senator from Delaware to withhold that 

motion for the present until we see what progress wemaketo-daywith 

business. \Ve are having one bill piled upon another: · ~Ir. BAYARD. I think the very moment business is arranged Senators will know what they may do to-morrow. I am perfectly aware that it is not a holiday for ns merely because we do not meet here. 

ltlr. ALLISON. I am aware of that. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the motion of the 

Senator from Delaware. The motion was agreed to. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. I gave notice yesterday that fio..day at 2 o'clock 

I would move to postpone all preyious and pending orders and take np 

Honse bill No. 5667, to pension the soldiers of the Mexican war. I now 

make that motion. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Kentucky moves 

that the Senate lay aside the unfinished business of yesterday and take 

up Honse bill5667, granting pensions to the soldiers and sailors of the 

Mexican war, and for other purposes. Mr. McMILLAN. I wish to inquire before this motion is·considered 

whether the bill which has been under consideration on the Calendar, 

Senate bill 1733, goes over 1or to-day under the operation of the rule. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. It goes over until to-morrow and will 

be the business in order during the morning hour to-morrow when the 

Calendar is reached. 

Mr. BLAIR. Is the motion of the Senator from Kentucky in order 

at this time? 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair understands it to be in 

order, but it can not be debated. The Senator from New Hampshire 

· can proceed only by unanimous consent. 'Is there objection to the 

Senator from ~ew Hampshire proceeding? · . :Mr. BLAIR. I do not wish to make any remarks upon the motion. 

I merely wish to indicate to the Senate, what I suppose is already 

thoroughly understood, that if this motion should not prevail, the un- finished business will be, hy assent of the Senator from M~sachusetts, 

informally laid aside and we shall complete the bureau of statistics 

bill which was under discussion yesterday. 

Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President, I wanted to ask the Senator from 

Massachusetts and the Senator from New Hampshire if we could not 

by unanimous consent, without displacing the unfinished business, informally lay it a-side for the consideration of the bill suggesteC' by the 

Senator from Kentucky. I should hope that it would take very little 

time to dispose of the bill that the Senator from Kentucky desires to 

have considered. ·Mr. BLAIR. I should be very glad indeed to oblige any Senator 

interested in the Merican pension bill, but the bill of which I have 

charge has been under discussion so long that it does seem to me that 

if any bill should be delayed it should not be that. I could hardly 

assent to it myself. I hope the Senate will proceed to its completion.' 

It is very nearly done. It seems to me there can be but very little more discussion, and I hope it will be disposed of to-day. Jifr. HARRIS. In view of the present attitude of the Senator's bill, 

three substitutes being •now pending, two of which were only offered 

late last evening, I think a day or two may very well be spent in the 

consideration of those substitutes, which have been printed. 

Mr. McMILLAN. Is debate in order? 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Tennessee has the 

floor. Does he yield? 

Jilr. McMILLAN. I only ask whether debate is in order. The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is not in order, but·is proceeding 

by unanimous consent. 

Jilr. BLAIR. I would simply say in reply to these suggestions that 

difficulties are accumulating. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator will suspend. Is there 

objection to the Senator from New Hampshlre proceeding? The Chair 

hears none. . Jifr. BLAIR. I only wish to say that if there are difficultie.c; accumulating about this bill I think it had better be disposed of immediately or as soon as possible. Certainly if any bill is entitled to be disposed of this one is, and if the longer it is delayed the more there is to 

it, the sooner we dispose of it the better. ' . Mr. WILLIAMS. I will say to my friend from New Hampshire, 'without intending to be discourteous at all to him, that I gave notice more than a. week ago of this motion. When the time arrived for which 

I gave notice his bill was under consideration and I gave way to it then 

thinking the bill would be disposed of that day ; but yesterday it was perfectly apparent to the whole Senate that the statistics bill which he 

b.as been pressing burst and went all to pieces. There were three distinct substitutes offered by different Senators embracing different plans. 

Now those three are all pending before the Senate, and I am satisfied 

it will take a week or ten days to get through that bill if we take them 

up. The only way to do is to postpone it aml get it out of our way. 

I say to the Senator that I have no objection to having the bill passed 

upon, and I will help him get it up again as soon as we dispo e of the 

Mexican soldiers' pension bill. Mr. BLAIR. I do not want any such help. I want the bill disposed 

of now. I have no objection to the Senator making his motion, but I 

do not understand that simply because he gives a notice that at some time he proposes to make a motion his bill thereby acquires any privileges except to submit the motion. to the Senate. This other bill has 

rights. I have rights as far as any member in the Senate, I suppose, 

to courteous treatment, and I want this· bill treated like other bills, 

and I do not think the Senator from Kentucky or any other Senator is 

in an attitude to say that he has superior claims to personal courtesy 

to those which I possess aq the one in charge of this bill. Certainly 

this bill has been sufficiently buffeted and kiclted about, and I want it 

disposed of. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. I claim for myself no more courtesy than any 

Senator. I certainly understood that all the sailors in the Senator's crew bad struck yesterday. · Mr. BLAIR. Not at all. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. I thought after what occurred yesterday the Senator would be willing to let the bill go over. It is impossible to get 

the pension bill acted on without antagonizing it with something. 

Mr. BLAIR. The Senator may find various cracks in his own bill 

before he is through with it. 

Mr. LOGAN. I think I can suggestacompromisethat will suit the 

gentlemen. I think they are in favor of both bills; I know that I am; 

and I suggest that the Senate by unanimous consent agree that after 

the labor bill-which I think is a very important one-is disposed of, 

then we take up the bill suggested by the Senator from Kentucky and 

dispo e of it. I think it can be disposed of in twenty minutes. That 

is my judgment. ~Ir. HOAR. Mr. President--

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from illinois yield? 

Mr. LOGAN. Certainly; I have said all I desired to say. 

Mr. HOAR. I thought the Senator had :finished. Having charge 

of the Utah bill, which is the bill now in order as the -pending busi- ness, which has been laid before the Senate, I ask unanimous consent 

to say a word. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there objection to the Senator 

from Massachusetts proceeding? The Chair hears none. 

Mr. HOAR. I objectto displacing the Utah bill bythebillwhichthe 

Senator from Kentucky proposes. The Utah bill was reached in its order 

last week in pursuance of prf;)vious notice, and was taken up by the Sen- ate, and to accommodate a number of gentlemen, I think all of them on the other side of the Chamber-but that makes no difference, because 

there was no political matter at stake- I consented to have the Utah 

bill go over till thic; week with the understanding that then it should 

be taken up. When- it came up I further consented, I am afraid incautiously, to have the stati!:itiCS bill, which had been going on in the 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4425 

mean time finished, it appearing every morning as if it would be finished in h~lf an hom. It appears so now, because I think these various 

substitutes are the result of the debate, and will not precede a debate. 

I think the substitute of the Senator from Indiana [Mr. HARRISON] 

embodies the suggestions which have been made all along very fully 

and that will be adopted and disposed of very soon. But at any rate 

I must resist, and must ask the Senate to stand by me in resisting, the 

laying aside of the Utah bill. I have myself to go away before the 

end of next week on a public duty which I think is one that justifies 

myabsenc.e, and if I let the Utah bill lose any longer ~ime it will bring 

it into a time when I can not be present to attend to 1t. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the motion of 

the Selli1tor from Kentucky. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. I wish to ask the Senator from Massachusetts a 

question. The Utah bill is not a House bill, but a Senate bill. 

Mr. HOAR. So much the more reason for its being early disposed 

of and sent down to the House. The House bills we are sure to get 

through at this Congress. 

Mr. WILLIAJ\18. The Mormons will not run away before the House 

adjourns if we have not time to pass that bill. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the motion of the 

Senator from Kentucky. . 

1\fr. LOGAN. Before that vote is taken I desire to have the Senate 

agree to my proposition. As soon as the bill the Senator from New 

Hampshire bas charge of shall be disposed of, I then myself, so far as I 

am concerned, would certainly be in favor of taking up the bill suggested by the Senator from. Kentucky. The Senator from Massachusetts 

desires to press what is known as the Utah bill. That is an important 

measure, I agree, but having said that I would be in favor of taking 

up the bill suggested by the Senator from Kentucky, I would certainly 

be in fa-vor of that and would vote to lay aside the Utah bill until the 

bill suggested by the Senator from Kentucky shall be disposed of. The 

labor bill having gone as far as it has, I would not like to see it interfered with at this time, but would prefertohave it disposed of. When 

the question then comes up I shall be in favor of taking up the bill of 

the Senator from Kentucky. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. If there can be a general understanding and 

agreement on the part of the Senate to take up the Mexican pension 

bill the moment the labor bill is disposed of, I shall consent. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question now is on the motion 

of the Senator from Kentucky, and debate on that motion is out of 

order. 

Mr. VOORHEES. Will the Senator from Kentuckj allow me to 

make a suggestion? 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. 

Mr. VOORHEES. I would suggest that inasmuch as the bill on 

the subject of labor statistics has advanced as far as it has, we had better get it out of the way, and then .we can take the chances on the 

Mexican veterans' bill as against any other bill. I make that suggestion. 

Mr. HOAR. I wish to make a suggestion which I think may very 

likely meet the approbation of the Senate, and that is that at the next 

sitting of the Senate the Mexican pension bill shall be taken up after 

the completion of the routine morning business. Its friends think-it 

can be finished in twenty minutes, and that will give them about two 

hours to try the experiment, and if at the end of two hours it is not 

finished they can move then to go on as they do now. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the motion of the 

Senator from Kentucky. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. If I understand the proposition of the Senator 

from Massachusetts it is that there be a general understanding and 

agreement on the part of the Senate that at the first session, immediately after the morning business is over; the Mexican pension bill shall 

oo called up. • 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair can only ask for such unanimous consent after t.he withdrawal of the motion of the Senator from 

Kentucky. 

Mr .. WILLIAMS. I want to understand the proposition. 

Mr. HARRIS. The Senator can withdraw his motion and make it 

afterward if it becomes necessal"Y. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I withdraw my motion, and I can make it 

again. I merely want to understand the proposition. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator ask the unanimous 

consent suggested? 

Mr. HOAR. My proposition was that instead of making his proposition now the Senator should move, which motion can be carried by a 

majority, and then it will not require unanin1ous consent, at the close 

of the routine morning business when the Senate next meets, to-morrow 

or Monday, to take up the Mexican war soldiers' pension bill. That 

will give him nearly two hours, and then he will have the same right 

to go on with his bill, if he does not finish it in two hours, as he has "to 

move to take it up now. 

Mr. WILLIAMS. I will accept that and give notice that I will make 

the motion at the first meeting of the Senate. · The PRESIDING O~FICER. The motion of the Senator from Kentucky being withdrawn, the Chair lays before the Senate the unfinished business. 

PENSION .APPROPRIATION BILL. 

Mr. LOGAN. Pending which I ask for the consideration ofthe appropriation bill for pensions, which will not cause discussion. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair is unable to understand 

the Senator from Tilinois. 

Mr. LOGAN. I desire to take up the pension appropriation bill. I 

will state that if any discussion arises on the bill I shall consent to its 

being laid aside. . 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Illinois moves that 

the Senatedonowconsider OrderofBusiness 618, being the"bill (H. R. 

6094) making appropriations for the payment·of invalid and other pensions of the United States for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1885, and 

for other purposes. 

Mr. HARRIS. I think the Senator asks unanimous consent. He 

does not make a formal motion, because that would displace the unfinished business. 

:Mr. LOGAN. Yes, sir; I ask unanimous consent. 

Mr. HOAR. Laying aside the pending business informally, as I understand? 

Mr. LOGAN. Yes, sir. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there objection? The Chair hears 

none. 

The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, proceeded to consider the 

bill (H. R. 6094) making appropriations for thepaymentofinvalida.nd 

other pensions of the United States for the fiscal year ending June 30, 

1885, and for other purposes. 

The bill was read. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Secretary will report the first 

amendment proposed by the Committee on Appropriations. 

Mr. MORGA,.~. I find that the committee have stricken out of the 

bill a good deal of legislation here. It seems to be of an important 

character. Whether it is valuable or not I am not prepared to say, because I am not a well-versed pension lawyer by any means, but I desire 

to ask the Senator in charge of the bill why it was stricken out . 

Mr. LOGAN. We struck out everything that was generallegislar 

tion, and left it simply an appropriation bill. 

Mr. MORGAN. That was the object of the committee? 

Mr. LOGAN. That was their object in doing so. The House has 

passed it, and if we are compelled in a committee of conference to have 

legislation we will try and make it as good as we ean; but we struck it 

out so as to have a clean appropriation bill and have no generallegislar 

tion in it, the Committee on Pensions already having the same subject 

before them. 

Mr. MORGAN. It was the very view the Senator from Illinois takes 

of it which induced me to make the inquiry. This subject, if it is a 

legitimate subject of legislation upon a pension bill, ought to pass under review in the Senate before it goes to a committee of conference, and 

I should be glad to hear reasons stated by the Senator iu charge ofthe 

bill-I may probably concur in them-why he thinks that the legislation that is in the bill is not valuable. I am not informed upon that 

question. 

Mr. LOGAN. It has been a rule in the Senate that appropriation 

bills should not carry all the general legislation of the country. 

Mr. MORGAN. I am aware of that, and I concur in the propriety 

of such a rule. 

Mr. LOGAN. The Committee on Pensions having this subject now 

before them in a separate bill, it was thought best to strike the general 

legislation out and have this an appropriation bill and nothing more. That is all there is to it. 

Mr. MORGAN. Then the committee have not stricken out this generallegislation because in itself it was improper legislation? 

Mr. LOGAN. Oh, not at all. 

Mr. MORGAN. Or useless legislation? 

Mr. LOGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. MORGAN. It may be valuable? 

Mr. LOGAN. It may or may not be. 

Mr. MORGAN. The Senator intimated that perhaps when the bill 

goes to a committee of conference if we could get a bill in no otlter way 

the committee of conference may agree. 

Mr. LOGAN. The Senator will understand that I do not· know 

who will be on the committee of conference. My own idea would 

be not to have any general legislation on the appropriation bills. I 

merely made that allusion by way of remark, because sometimes committees of conference have to agree to a certain character of legislation 

that one House may not think proper on an appropriation bill. I 

merely said jt in reference to what has transpired heretofore. Some 

of the legislation in the bill is very good, but a part of the legislation on the subject without the whole certainly would not be very proper, 

and therefore we concluded to strike all of it ·Out. 

Mr. JACKSON. If the Senator will allow me, I will state that the 

Committee on Pensions on the 24th of February reported a general 

bill on t.he subject of attorneys' fees. That bill is pending on the Calendar now, and is a little m~e in detail than the provisions in the appropriation bill. It is in effect restoringthe act of 1870; and it would 

be best, it was thought, that. it should be considered in a separate bill 

rather than in an appropriation bill. 

Mr. MORGAN. I have no doubt that is right in reference to this 

..._ 
.. 

4426 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. MAY 23, 

appropriation bill or any o~h~r. ~enera.l legislation ought to be considered apart from appropnation bills. . Mr. LOGAN. I will saytothe SenatethattheComm1tteeon Appropriations received several very nice seathings, if I may use that expression in the Senate for appropriating to itself the right to give to the 

cou~try generalleg~lation on ~ppro~riation bills; aJ?-d ~much as the 

Committee on Pens10ns had this subJect under collSlderation, that being the proper committee to consider it, :ve ~hou~ht not only on account 

of its being improper to be on an appropriation bill but ~hat l?r?per co~­

tesy demanded that that committee should have the dlSposlt_ion of th1s 

matter in connection with fees, &c., of attorneys, and that m. connection with other things caused us to strike it out. . . . 1\Ir. MORGAN. I concur in all that. I am heartilym accord Wlth 

the view taken by the Committee on Appropriations on this question, 

and all I desire to guard against is this: Here is general legislation on 

this subject upon an approp~iation bill, and if the ~m~ittee on Appropriations when they get rnto confe:ence on the _bill (if they should 

get into conference and the House decline to concur m our amendments) 

find that it is necessary to take up and discuss this gener~llegislati?n, 

I hope they will come ba.ck in such a way and at such a tune as to giVe 

the Senate an opportunity of discn:ssmg the merits of ~his g~nerallegislation. As we are passing upon 1t now, we are not dlScussmg-or un-

·derstanding even what the merits of it may be; but I would very much 

prefer inasmuch as the committee have taken what I conceive to be 

the p;oper ground of excluding gene:al legislation from the bill, ~hat when they get into conference they will adhere to that, and not ~o mto 

the matter of considering this general legislation under any cucumstances. That is all I desire to say. 

Mr. LOGAN. I certainly should be opposed to doing so myself. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The:firstamendmentproposed by the 

Committee on Appropriations will be read: 

The :first amendment reported by the Committee on Appropriations 

was, in section 1, after "1884," in line 14, to insert "estimated at 

$66,000,000;" so as to read: 

For Army and Navy pensions, as follows: For invalids, widows, minor children and dependent relatives and survivors and widows of the war of 1812, 

$1!0 00o 000 · and any balance of 'the appropriation for the above purposes for the c~ren't fls~l year that may remain un~xpended on the 30t?- of June, 18M, e~ti­ mated at S66,000,000, is hereby reapproprmted and made available for the service 

of the yea r ending June 30, 1885. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

The next amendment was, in section 1, line 26, to increase from 

$240,800 to $336,200 the appropriatio~ "for pay and allowan_ces of 

pension agents for salary, fees for preparmg vouchers, rent, fuel, lights, 

and postage on1letters to the Executive Departments and to pe~ioners. ~' !vir. BAYARD. Will the Senator please state why that mcrease lS 

made? 

Mr. LOGAN. It is made in accordance with the estimate of the 

Commissioner of Pensions. The bill as it came from the House reduced 

the pension agents to twelve and reduced the fees that they are entitled 

to &c. Westruck out thereduction so faras thedecreaseofthenumb~r of pension agents is concerned, and the decrease in reference to their 

fees and took the estimate of the Commissioner and changed the amount 

fro~ the House sum to· the estimate of the Commissioner of Pensions. 

Mr. BAYARD. That is a matter of absolute certainty? 

Mr. LOGAN. Yes, sir; an estimate made upon the ~asis of the law 

as it stands now. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment of the committee. 

The amendment was agi'eed to. 

The next amendment of the Committee on Appropriations was to 

strike out the following proviso, .f.rom line 27 to line 39, inclu.c;ive, of 

section 1: 

Provided, That from and after July 1, 18M, agents for the payment of. pen- sions shall receive only $10 for each 100vouchers, or at that rate for a fractwn of 

100 prepared and paid by any agent in excess of 4,000 vouchers per annum: PrlnridedfurtiU3r That from and after July 1, 18M, there shall be no more tha!l 

twelve agents f~r the payment of pensions; and it shall be the duty .of the President, and he is hereby authorized and directed, to reduce .the penswn agents ~o 

not exceeding the number aforesaid; and so much of sect10ns 4778 and 4780 as IS 

in conflict with this provision be, and the same is hereby, repealed. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

The next amendment was to strike out section 2 to section 6, inclusive, in the following words: 

SEC. 2. That no agent, attorney, or other per:"on shall demand or r~ive a.n;v fee for his services in pension, arrears-of-penswn, or bounty-land clatms until 

the allowance of the claim. . SEc. 3. That all fees in pension claims shall be paid by ~he agent for paymg pensions out of the first installment of pension due the cla1mant; and noagent, 

attorney: or other person shall re<:eive any. fee for his services in a pension claim 

except through the agent for paying penswns. . . SEc. 4. That the fee in all pension, arrears-of-penswn, or bounty-land claims 

shall be 10 except in case of special written contract filed in the Pen.sion Office 

and approv'ed by the Commissioner of Pensions, as J:I.erei~D:fter provided. . The 

claimant may contract with his attorney of record, 1n wr1tlng, In such form as the Commissioner of Pensions may prescribe, fo! a fee to an amou~t ~~t e~­

ceeding 525, except in cla:ims for incr~ase of p~nston w~ere no n~w d1sabtlit;r IS 

alleged in cases of pens10ns for sen·1ce. and 1n all cla1ms filed 1n the Pemnon Office after June 20, 1878, and prior to the p~ge ~f this act, i.n which cases no fee above 10 shall be contracted for; and in all claims filed pnor to the pass~ge 

of this act the attorney shall file a statement under oath, duly attested, settmg 

forth the amount of fee already received by him, a_nd the amount already re- ceived shall be deducted from the fee allowed by this a-ct. 

SEC. 5. That the Secretary of the Interior may prescribe· rules and regul:l.tions 

governing the recognition of agents, attorneys, or other persons repre enting 

claimants before his Department, and may require of such persons, agents, and 

attorneys, before being recognized as representatives of claimants, that they shall show that they are of good moral character and in good ~pute, posse ed 

of the necessary qualifications to enable them tO render such claimants valuable service, and otherwise competent to advise and assi t such claimants in the 

presentation of their cases. And such Secretary may suspend, debar, dismiss, 

and disbar from further practice before his Department any such person, agent, or attorney shown to be incompetent, disreputable, or who refuses to abide by 

the said rules and regulations, or who shall in any manner deceive, mislead, or threaten any claimant or prospective claimant, by word, circular, letter, or by advertisement. 

SEc. 6. That any agent or attorney, or other person, in trumental in prosecuting any claim for pension or arrears thereof, who shall, directly or indirectly, contract for, demand, or receive, or retain, any compensation for his ervices or instrumentality for prosecuting a claim for pension or arrears. the1·eof greater 

than is herein provided, or in any other manner than herein provided, or shall 

willfully or knowingly make a false statement in regard to the amount of fee 

already received, shall be deemed guilty of a highmisdemeanor,.and, upon con- viction thereof, shall, for every such offense, be fined not exceedmg 1,000, or be 

confined at bard labor not exceeding two years, or both, at the discretion of the 

court, and be forever afterward debarred from practicing before the P ension Office. 

Mr. ?!UTCHELL. I trust the Senate will not strike out that part of 

the bill. The Committee on Pensions have had this matter under consideration not only in this Congress but in the former Congre.._~, and 

have, as was stated by the Senator from Tennessee [Mr. JACKSON], recently reported a bill to the Senate on the general subject which covers 

the whole case, as we think, and which meets the approval of the Commissioner of Pensions. It is more extensive and general than these 

provisions inserted by the House in the bill, but the Commissioner of 

Pensions was before our committee a day or two since and stated that 

the proposition of the House meets with his approval with a very slight 

change-with the change of only two or three words. 

Mr. LOGAN. If any portion of this legislation is to be left in the 

bill, it ought all to be left in. Westruc~ it outfor~hereason that the· 

Committee on Pensioo.s had reported a bill, and a bill that we understood was a better one than these provisions in the House bill, and that 

it was a bill which had been agreed to by the authorities having charge 

of the pensions. If there is a desire~ have a portion of that bill~­

serted in this appropriation bill it had better be done by mature dehberation, taking up the bill reported by the Committee OJ?- Pensions aJ?-d 

this bill together in a committee of conference and havmg such a b1ll 

as would be satisfactory to all parties. 

As I said a while ago, we struck out all general legislation for that 

purpose, leaving the Committee on Pensions to have charge of this part 

o the bill, and I think that course is much preferable. I would very 

much prefer that the general legislation should all be stricken out, so 

that if any portion of it is to be considered by the committee of confer- ence it may all be considered, inasmuch as it is all in the bill. 

Mr. MITCHELL. I do not understand that a point of order can be 

made against this proposition of the House, and therefore the general 

objection that might be made perhaps would not apply. So far as I 

am concerned I would be willing that the matter should be disposed of 

in a conference committee, as suggested by the Senator from Illinois; 

but as I said before, the Commissioner of Pensions would be satisfied · 

with this legislation with a very slight amendment, although it does 

not go so far or include so much as the bill which has been reported 

lifter very careful deliberation by the Committee on Pensions of this 

body. If the Senator is disposed to take care of the subject in that 

wav, I am quite willing to meet it in that way. 

M·r. LOGAN. I have stated to the Senate two or three times that 

we struck out all those provisions, so that the mat~rmight all be considered. If the Committee on Pensions have a bill that can not be considered separately, then it may be considered in the committee of conference but let the whole subject be considered. Therefore we struck 

it all o~t, so as to consider the whole thing or none. 

Mr. MITCHELL. Very well; with that understanding I am quite 

willing that theamendment as proposed by the Committee on Appropriations should be agreed to. If the Senator (as I suppose he will be on the committee of conference) will consider this matter and take the 

action of the Committee on Pensions as his proposition, we shall be a great deal better satisfied than we shall be by merely agreeing to the 

proposition of the House. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment of the Committee on Appropriations striking out theremainder of the bill, beginning at section 2. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. JACKSON. I call the attention oftheSenatorfrom Illinois t o 

an amendment that I think ought to be made in the sixteenth line of 

section 5 an amendment that has been suggested to the committee, 

afterthe 1word "threaten" to add the words "or attempt to deceive, 

mislead, or threaten.'' 

Mr. LOGAN. That is all stricken out. 

Mr . .JACKSON. The fourth section has been stricken out? 

Mr. LOGAN. Yes, all the general legislation has been stricken out. 

Mr . .JACKSON. The fifth section also? 

Mr. LOGAN. All of it. 

Mr. MITCHELL. I think perhaps the Senator from Tennessee did 

not understand the proposition of the Senator from Illinois. It is to 

meet the question in the committee of conference. 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4427 

The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amendments 

were concurred in. 

The amendments were ordered to be engrossed and the bill to be read 

It third time. 

The bill was read the third time, and passed. 

BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS. 

1\Ir. BLAiR. I ask that the unfinished business be still further informally laid aside and that the Senate proceed to the consideration of 

the labor bill. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there objection to the course proposed by the Senator from New Hampshire? The Chair hears none. The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the consideration of the bill (H. R. 1340) to establish and maintain a bureau of labor 

statistics, the pending question being on the amendments proposed .by 

Mr. BLAIR, in section 1, line 4, after "a " to strike out "bureau " and 

insert "department;" after the word l'labor," in the same line, to 

strike out the word '' statistics;'' and in line 5, after the word ''labor,'' 

to strike out the word "statistics;" so as to read: 

That there shall be established and maintained at t.he seat of Government a department of labor, which shall be under the charge of a commissioner of labor, who shall be appointed by the President, by and with the advice and con- sent of the Senate. 

Mr. WILSON. I desire to have a division of the question. 

Mr. HALE. I wish to ask the Sen.ator from New Hampshire whether 

it is the proposition involved in the amendment of having an entirely 

separate and distinct department, that shall not in anyway be subject 

to or a part of either of the great Departments of the Government as 

now organized. 

1\Ir. BLAIR. The difficulty arises in this way: The Senator from 

Iowa [?tiT. ALLISON] moved an amendment to the bill in the latter 

portion of it, that part of it which provides for the appointment by the 

commissioner of his chief clerk, as doubts of the constitutionality of 

conferring that power upon a bureau officer have been raised. The Senator from Ohio LMr. SHERMAN] says that there can be no doubt of the 

power of the head of a Department to make such appointments or the 

authority of Congress under the Constitution to devolve the power on the head of a Department, and that when the Department of Agricult- ure wa.s organized it was made a department for the very reason that 

jt was desirable to give the Commissioner of Agriculture control over the office of which he was the head. Therefore, in order to meet the 

difficulty which exists in the bill by so amending it as to make this a department instead of a bureau, the power may be conferred of independent action in the appointment of a chief clerk. Hence results the 

necessity of an amendment, and if there is to be an amendment, the one in this direction it seems to me is the best to make. 

Mr. HALE. It strikes me very clearly that this is doing a very 

greatly objectionable thing in order to cure a small objection. The 

bill the Senator has reported, whatever may be said about it, did not 

originally provide .for or contemplate that a new department should be 

created-I do not mean a Cabinet office, but an independent department-but it was to be, as other things of importance have been heretofore provided for, a brneau. Now, because the objection is raised that 

the head of a brneau can not appoint a chief clerk or any clerk without 

interfering with the provisions of the Constitution, the Senator from 

New Hampshire proposes to change entirely the scope and power of the 

organization that shall control this business of labor statistics. It 

seems to me that that is going very much too fur. -I do·not, for one, 

believe in creating any more inqependent departments outside of the 

great Departments of the Government. The Department of Agricult- ure is an anomaly. The head of it has no power as a Cabinet officer, 

and yet he is independent. 

Mr. HARRIS. If the Senator from Maine will allow me, I should 

like to ask him, instead of changing the scope and power of this subordinate officer that it is proposed to create, is it not rather an attempt to 

evade a constitutional provision by changing the name of the office? 

Mr. HALE. It has that objection in addition to the objection that 

I am urging. That undoubtedly is the occasion of the motion, seeking 

to avoid the difficulty in which the Senator has. fallen; but it involves 

what I say·is an anomaly in our Government, the creation of another 

bureau, or department, rather, like the Commissionership of Agriculture, which reports to no Department, which is independent, and yet the 

Commissioner the head of it, has no power or responsibility as a mem- ber of the Cabinet. 

While I am willing to vote for this bill thinking that some good may 

come from it, I am not willing to vote to establish another department 

of itself and create another anomaly such as is now presented in the 

Department of Agriculture. I hope the amendment will not prevail. 

Mr. CAMERON: of Wisconsin. I think I can make a suggestion to 

the Senator from New Hampshire which will help him out of the difficulty. It will be remembered that in the civil-service act, so called, 

it was provided that the Civil-Service Commissioners shall appoint a 

chief examiner. When the act was submitted to the PTesident it will 

be recGlllected that he called the attention of Congress to that provision, and instead of the chief examiner being appointed by the Commissioners, notwithstanding that provision in the act, the chief examiner was nominated to the Senate by the President and confirmed by the 

Senate. So under the provisions of the bill now under consideration as it came from the House, ifthecla.useobjected to be uncom;titutionalI do not know whether it is or not-the President may nominate the 

chief clerk of the bureau to the Senate. for confirmation. 

Mr. GEORGE. I can not hear the Senator from Wisconsin. 

Mr. CAMERON, of Wisconsin. I was suggesting that notwithstanding the provisions in this bill, which provides that the commissioner, or whatever he is called, shall appoint a chief clerk, and that in the 

absences of the commissioner the chief clerk shall perform the duties 

of commissioner, if that provision be unconstitutional the President can nominate a chief clerk to the Senate and the Senate can confirm or reject such nomination, and thereby this officer canbe appointed in a constitutional manner. The same difficulty I was remarking occurred 

under the civil-service act. That act provided that the Commissioners 

should appoint a chief examiner. The President was of the opinion 

that that was an unconstitutional provision, and consequently he nom- inated to the Senate a chief examiner and he was confirmed by the Senate, and in that way undoubtedly was constitutionally appointed. 

So in this case I think, without making any amendment, if the bill 

be passed exactly as it came from the House, the President can nominate a chief clerk to the Senate and the Senate can take action upon 

that nomination. I hope the Senator from New Hampshire will concrn with me in this suggestion and refuse his assent to any amendment 

whatever. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment proposed by the Senator from New Hampshire. 

Mr. WILSON. I desire to have a division of that amendment. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. A division of the question is called 

for. The Secretary will report the first division of the amendment proposed. 

The SECRETARY. In section 1, line 4, it is proposed to strike out the 

word '' brneau '~ and insert the word '' department.'' 

Mr. WILSON. I wish to have a vote taken upon that separately. 

Mr. BLAIR. This amendment with the others corresponding to it 

I offered in consequence of the suggestion of the Senator from Ohio 

[Mr. SHERMAN]. I suppose that the question whether this shall be 

changed from a brneau to a department may perhaps be tested upon 

other amendments that come later on; and, if I may do so, and there is 

no objection, I am inclined to withdraw all the verbal amendments 

which I suggested last night in order that the sense of the Senate may : be taken upon other propositions which if adopted will dispose of this 

matter, and if rejected, leaving the bill before the Senate, it can then 

easily be amended in this regard in another way, or the suggestion of 

the Senator from Wisconsin be adopted. Therefore, I will withdraw 

the amendments. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair understands the Senator 

from New Hampshire to withdraw the amendments which he offered 

yesterday. 

Mr. BLAIR. I will withdraw the amendments which I offered, including the pending amendment and all other amendments which I 

moved. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The bill is as in Committee of the 

Whole and still open to amendment, the amendments proposed by the 

Senator from New Hampshire having been withdrawn. · Mr. GEORGE. I understand now that so far as the Senator from 

New Hampshire is concerned the bill stands--

Mr . .BLAIR. It stands as 'it came from the committee. 

Mr. GEORGE. And from the House of Representatives? 

Mr. BLAIR. Yes, sir. I ask for the reading of a telegram which I 

have received since I called up the bill this afternoon. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The telegram will be read. 

The Secretary read as follows: 

ScRANTON,PA.., May23, 1884. 

Three thousand assemblies of Knights of Labor request of Senate to concur in action of House on bureau of labor statistics bill. 

Hon. H. W. BLAIR, 

B~. Wash~Wn,D.Q 

F. V. POWDERLY, 

General Master-Work-man, K. of L. 

Mr. MORGAN. We have no answer by telegraph to the constitutional question raised by the Senator from Iowa yesterday. 

Mr. BLAIR. That is the only telegram I have received. The Senator from Iowa may have received one. Mr. GARLAND. If the amendments toperfectthe bill ar~ through 

with, I suppose the amendment in the nature of a. substitute that I 

desired to offer will be now in order. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is now in order. The Chair understands there are no other amendments proposed . . Mr. GARLAND. I have qualified the amendment a little, and I 

will now beg leave to offer that amendment. · The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Arkansas moves 

an amendment as a substitute which will be reported. 

The SECRETARY. It is proposed to strike out all after the enacting 

clause of the bill and to insert: 

That- section 342, chapter 10, of the Revised Statutes be amended by adding thereto the following words, namely: "The Chief of the Bureau of Stati tics shall, under such regulations as the Sec- retary of the Treasury may prescribe, annually collect and report to Congress 
4428 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. MAY 23, 

the statistics of and relating to marriage and divorce in the several States and 

Territories and the District of Columbia., and pertinent information relating to all departments of 11\bor and production in the United States, especially touching the pecuniary, industrial, social, educational, R.nd sanitary condition of the 

laboring classes, and to the permanent prosperity of the productive industry of 

the whole country; and the salary of the chief of such bureau shall be 83,500." 

Mr. HOAR. I a.sk for the yeas and nays. · Mr. JONES, of Florida. Mr. President--

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the adoption of 

the substitute propo~ by the Senator from Arkansas. The Senator 

from Florida. ~ 

Mr. JONES, of Florida. I wish to ask a question with respect--

Mr. HOAR. I asked for the yeas and nays. - The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Florida has the 

:floor. 

Mr. HOAR. I asked for the yeas and nays. I suppose that should 

be decided when it is demanded. I asked before the Senator from 

Florida rose. Mr. JONES, of Florida I am on the floor. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair had recognized the Senator from Florida. 

Mr. JONES, of Florida. I should like to ask the Senator from Arkansas, with respect to this amendment, what is to be understood by 

the phrase "laboring classes." He is the author of the amendment, 

and I for one should be glad to understand what tha.t means. · Mr. GARLAND. The term "laboring cla ses," mentioned in the 

amendment, refers to all persons whose occupations lead them to man-. ual work. That is giving as generic a classification of it as I can just now. It includes laboring men, whether persons who manufacture, 

persons who till the soil, persons who cut wood, or anything of that 

sort. 

Mr. JONES, of Florida. Mr. President, a very large proportion of 

thP. American people have to labor in many ways to sustain themselves 

in life. I regard a professional man as· a laborer. I regard the man who labors in a profession, whether as a physician or as an attorney, or as an engineer, in every capacity where a man is called upon to exer- cise his faculties for the benefit of others, as a laborer. I desire to know 

whether the words employed in this amendment and in the original bill 

intend to embrace every description of labor, intellectual and manual. 

I do not want any brand put upon the working masses of the country. 

I think labor is honorable. I think the man who works for his daily 

bread as a mechanic, or as a farm hand, is·pursuing just a.s honorable a pursuit a.s the man who works in a lawyer's office or as a physician. 

When we are going into this subject let us understand exactly where we are going and whom you are going to mark out for special favors 

under the Government. I know that there are some public men who are constantly pandering to the laborers of the countrywithoutweighing their words, and who I believe have not one particle of sympathy 

with them. There are some in public life who have earned their bread 

by the sweat of their brow who when it comes to labor have a right to 

speak for the laborers. · Now let us understand whom this measure is intended to benefit and 

what is the neceSsity for it. Let us include the lawyer8, the doctors, 

and the engineers. Every class of people who have to labor for others 

ought to be embraced in this legislation. I do not want any stigma 

put upon labor as mendicant, as pauperism, or anything of that kj_nd. 

Labor is respectable. 

For years of my life that I labored I never found such a sentiment 

prevailing in the country a.s that the laborers wanted any recognition 

from Congress in the shape of a special bureau. They can take care of 

themselves. I am not their advocate and .they know that I am not 

their enemy. If the working masses of America would listen to me I 

would tell them that in all this business of preparing statistics in their 

interest at the head of the Government, which are to be made the foundation of legislation afterwards to be had, it will not benefit them. 

I would leave this subject where it has been for years, with the 

States, and I would not crowd it into this Congress to gratify the whims 

andnotionsofsomepeoplewhoimaginetheyare benefiting the laborers. 

Labor can take care of itself. Whenever the interests of the toiling masses of America have to depend upon the statistics prepared in a bu- reau in Washington the laboring masses will suffer, the facts will be 

adverse to them. - Their best security is in standing by the limitations 

of their organic law, the simple Constitution of ours, which treats them as part of the American public, and not ask to be put to the front be- cause they are laborers and require something speciaJ1yto be done that no other c1ass in the Republic ~uires. I repudiate it. _ Mr. GARLAND. Mr. President, when I was askedbytheSenator 

from Florida in reference to the definition of the terms used in the 

amendment I .answered as well as I could; and I was about to proceed 

to make some suggestions in reference to the general aspect of the bill 

in connection with the amendment which I offered and the amendment 

contemplated to be offered by the Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. AL- DRICH]. · 

This matter has grown very considerably .since it wa.s started and 

since the debate was opened by the Senator from New Hampshire, and a great deal of time has been, I will not say wasted, but has been spent 

in debating it. I think we have come to a point where it is very evident that it is necessary that a good deal more time be spent in looking 

into this bill and into the general objects and purpo es that it intends 

to reach. 

We have got ourselves now into a very perplexing attitude, in my 

judgment. All of us who have spoken or made any suggestions in 

reference to the matter believe that some movement of this sort would 

be beneficial, if not absolutely necessary. The amendillent I .offered, 

and which is now the pending proposition before the Senate, had regard 

to the idea that was so suddenly brought forth yesterday by the suggestion of the Senator from Iowa in reference to the power of the Commissioner to make his appointment of a chief clerk; that is the necessity 

of putting this bureau or this department, if you choose to call it that, 

under the head and under the direction and control of one of the De~ 

partnients of the Government, constitutionally speaking. 

Yesterday I stated that the Department of Agriculture, as it is called, wa.s a part of the Department of the Interior. It had escaped my mem- ory that the act of 1862 had taken it from that Department; but it is 

very uncertain now, if the question was tested, whether the Department of Agriculture, with the powers conferred upon it, ha.s a constitutional existence. In the line of the suggestion that I made yesterday I wish now to pursue this idea somewhat and show to the Senator 

from New Hampshire, if I can, what I feel to be correct, that his bill 

needs an entire reformation, and it is brought about by the idea that 

this department or bureau must be one of two things. You must 

make it a Department of the Government, constitutionally speaking, or yon must place it under the control and direction of one of these 

Departments. That is the proposition. , 

Yesterday I read to th~ Senate a decision in 6 Wallace upon this power 

under the Constitution of making appointmebts. There was a much 

later ca.se that I could not then pla-ce my hand upon which I have found 

and have here this morning, and I wish to call the attention of the Senate to it. I think it is clearly demonstrated beyond any question, beyond the possibility of a doubt, that this proposed law is not, as it 

stands,· a constitutional measure, and to make it such it must be re- formed from the bottom up. This is the case of the United States 1:8. 

Germaine, in 99 United States Reports. I will read the head-note by 

way of getting at the key of the case, which is as follows: 

The Comm.issioner of Pensions is not the head of a Department within the 

meaning of section 2, article 2, of the Constitution, prescribing by whom officers 

of the United States shall be appointed. 

The act of Congress vested in the Commissioner of Pensions the power 

to appoint ce:rtain officers; he appointed one of them, and the authority 

to do that under the Constitution came before the Supreme Court of 

the United States in this case. 

As the defendant here was not appointed by the J;>resident, or by a court of 

law, it remains to inquire if the Commissioner of Pensions, by whom be was appointed, is the head of a Department within the meaning of the Constitution, as 18 argued by the counsel for plaintiffs. That instrument was intended to inaugurate a new system of government, 

and the departments to wb ich it referred were not then in existence. The clause we have cited is to be found in the article relating to the Executive, and the 

word a-s there used has reference to the subdivision of the power of the Execu- tive into departments for the more convenient exercise of that power. .One of 

the definitions of the word given by Worcester is: "A part or division of the 

executive government, as the Department of State or of the Treasury." Con- gress recognized this in the a-ct creating these subdivisions of the executive 

branch by giving to each of them the name of a. department. Here ~e have 

the Secretary of State who is by law the bead of the Department of State the 

Departments of War, .lnterior, Treasury, &c. And by one of the latest of these 

statutes, reorganizing the Attorney-General's Office and placing it on the basis 

of the others, it is called the Department of Justice. The association of the 

words" beads of Departments" w1th the President and the courts of Ia w strongly 

implies that something different is meant from the inferior commissioners and 

bureau officersThat is what I stated yesterdaywho are themselves the mere aids and subordinates of the heads of the De- partments. Such, also, has been the practice, for it is very well understood that 

the appointments of the thousands of clerks in the Departments of the Treas- ury, Interior, and the others are made by the heads of those Departments, and not by the heads of the bureaus in those Departments. 

So in this same section of the Constitution it is said that the President may require the opinion in writing of the principal officer in each of the Executive 

Departments relating to the duties of their respective offices. The word'' Department" in both these instances clearly means the same thing, and the principal officer in the one case is the equivalent of the head of Depart- ment in the other. · While it bas been the custom of the President to require these opinions from 

the Secretaries of State, the Treasury, of War, Navy, &c., and his consultation 

with them as members of his Cabinet has been habitual, we are not aware of any instance in which such written opinion bas been officially required of the 

bead of any of the bureaus, or 9f any Commissioner or Auditor in these Depart- ments. 

In the now distinguished case of The United States vs. Hartwell, in 

6 Wallace, the case that I read yesterday, Hartwell was appointed by 

the assistant treasurer, with the approbation and indorsement of the 

Secretary of the Treasury. Now, here we ~re. This commissioner is 

not, according to the interpretation of the Constitution under this decision, the bead of a Department, and therefore be can not make the 

appointment. He is the head of some bureau, of some chest, or of some room containing a drawer of chests or a chest of drawers, as the case may be, but his office is not a Department as contemplated by "the Constitution. The Commissioner of Pensions, a more important officer, 

with more widespread duties and more far-rea-ching duties than the 

officer here proposed, notwithstanding the aet of Congress gave him the 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4429 ' 

power to appoint a surgeon, the Supreme Court said he could not do 

it, and the surgeon was not an officer under his appointment. Why? 

Because the Commissioner's office was not a Department under the 

Constitution of the Government. We hav~ the Quartermaster's De- ·partment, we have the Commissary Department, webave the Ordnance 

Department, but they all refer back to the War Department at last; 

and we have the Engineer Department, as suggested by the Senator 

from South Carolina LMr. BUTLER], and hundreds of others that we could speak of. So I say here, and I gave my opinion yesterday, that 

the Department of Agriculture, a.:; it is now constituted with its powers, is an unconstitutional department according to the interpretation 

of the Constitution in this decision. 

As it struck me from the beginning, if yon are going to give this com- missioner these powers, put him under some recognized Department, or if you will not, make it a Department of the Government constitutionally and place him in the Cabinet side by side with the other seven heads and the President. In my judgment there is no avoiding the 

question. 

My amendment undertakes to place him under the lead and control 

of the Secretary of the Trea.sury. I am perfectly willing to take the 

suggestion of the Senator from Rhode Island and put it in the Interior 

Department, for his amendment, simply changing the two Departments, 

is just the same in effect as my own. . · I wish to state to the Senator from New Hampshire that this is not an idle objection, as be will see from reading this case closely, which I could 

not place my hand upon yesterday; but here it is now, broughtface to 

face to us, and one of two things must be done. You must create this a Department under the Constitution, or put this bureau, or this room, or whatever name you choose to give it, under the head of some recognized Department of the Government. With all these difficulties in the 

way-and here is an insurmountable one-if the Senator from New 

Hampshire, with his committee, is not prepared to place this under some proper Department of the Government at this time, I think more time is 

required to investigate this matter properly, and I therefore move torecommit the bill, with all the amendments, to the committee, with the 

Senate bill, so that by the meeting of the Senate next Monday these 

questions may be considered by the committee deliberately, and they 

may report to us then some results of their consideration. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. WILSoN in the chair). The Senator from. Arkansas moves to recommit the bill to the Committee on Education and Labor. 

Mr. HOAR. I ask for the yea.s and nays. 

ll'lr. BLAIR. I hope that motion will not prevail. 

Mr. HOAR. I desire that the question may be taken by yea.s and 

nays. 

The yea.s and nays were ordered, and the Secretary called the roll. 

Mr. HARRIS. I was requested to announce the pair of the Senator 

from Kentucky [Mr. BECK] with the Senator from Massachusetts [ll'lr. 

DAWES]. If the Senator from Kentucky were present, he would vote 

"yea. " 

Mr. McMILLAN. My colleague [Mr. SABIN] is paired with the 

Senator from Delaware [ll'lr. SAULSBURY]. If my colleague were here, 

he would vote "nay." 

Mr. BUTLER. My colleague [Mr. HAMPTON] is paired generally 

with the Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. ANTHONY]. 

Mr. BROWN (after having voted in the affirmative). I am paired 

with the Senator from Maine [Mr. FRYE] on all political questions, 

and as I see this has taken somewhat that direction, I withdraw my 

vote. 

The result was announced-yea.s 18, nays 28; as follows: 

YEAS-18. 

Bayard, Fair, .r ones of Florida, 

Butler, Garland, Lapham, 

Camden, Harris, Maxey, 

Coke, .Jackson, Morgan, 

Colquitt, .Jonas, Pendleton, 

NAY8-28. 

Aldrich, Dolph, .r ones of N eva.da, 

Allison, Edmunds, Kenna, 

Blair, George, Logan, 

Call, Harrison, McMillan, Cameron of Wis., Hawley, Morrill, 

Conger, Hill , Palmer, 

Cul!om, Hoar, Pike, 

ABSENT-30. 

Anthony, Frye, McPherson, 

Beck, Gibson, Mahone, 

Bowen, Gorman, Manderson, 

Brown, Groome, Miller of Cal., 

CameronofPa., Hale, 1\fillerofN. Y., 

Cockrell, Hampton, Mitchell, 

Dawes, Ingalls, Plumb, 

Farley, Lamar, Ransom, 

So the motion to recommit was not agreed to. 

Slater, 

Walker, 

Williams. 

Platt, 

Pugh, 

Sawyer, 

VanWyck, 

Vest, 

Vo01·hees, 

Wilson. 

Riddleberger, 

Sabin, 

Saulsbury, 

Sewell, 

Sherman, 

Vance. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question recurs, on the amendment in the nature of a substitute proposed by the Senator from Arkansas (Mr. GARLAND]. 

Mr. HOAR. If no Senator desires to debate the amendment, in order 

to test the question of maintaining the bill in its integrity I willm.ove 

to lay the amendment on the table. If any Senator does desire to debate it, of course I shall withdraw the motion. . The PR. SIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Massachusetts moves to lay the pending amendment on the table. 

Mr. HOAR. On that motion I call for the yeas and nays. 

The yeas and nays were ordered. 

Mr. McMILLAN. Let the amendment be ~eported. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment will be read for information. 

The SECRETARY .. It is proposed to strike out all after th_e enacting 

clause and to insert: 

That section 342, chapter 10, of the R~vised Statutes be amended by adding thereto the following words, namely : · ' "The Chief of the Bureau of Statistics shall, under such regulations as the Secretary of the Treasury may prescribe, annually collect and report to Con- gress the statistics of and relating to marriage and divorce in the several States and Territories and the District of Columbia, and pertinent information relating to all departments of labor and production in the United States, especially touch- ing the pecuniary, industrial, social, educational,. and sanitary condition of the laboring classes, and to the permanent prosperity of the productive industry of the whole country ; and the salary of the chief of such bureau shall be $3,500." 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Secretary will call the roll on the motion to lay the amendment on the table. 

The Secretary proceeded to cail the roll. 

Mr. BROWN {when his name was called). On this question I am paired with the Senator from Maine [Mr. FRYE]. 

Mr. HILL (when Mr. GIBSON's name was called). The Senator 

from Louisiana [Mr. GIBSON] was paired with me on this bill, but I 

have transferred my pair to the Senator from Michigan [Mr. PALMER]'. 

Mr. MORGAN (when his name was called). I was paired with the 

Senator from Michigan [Mr. PALMER]. The pair has been transferred 

to the Senator from Louisiana [Mr. GIBSON]. I vote "nay." 

The roll-call was concluded. 

Mr. McMILLAN. My colleague (Mr. SABIN] is paired with the 

Senator from Delaware [Mr. SAULSBURY]. My colleague would vote 

"yea." 

The result was announced-yeas 26, nays 24; as follows: 

YEAS-26. 

Aldrich, Edmunds, Jones of Nevadti, Pugh., Allison, George, Lapham, Sawyer, 

Blair, Hale1 Logan, Sherman, 

Call, Harnson, Mcl\Iillan, Voorhees, Cameron of Wis., Hawley, Morrill, Wilson. Conger, Hill, Pike, 

Cullom, Hoar, Platt, 

NAY8-24. 

Bayard, Dolph, .Jonas, Ransom, 

Butler, Fair, .r ones of Florida, Slater, 

Camden, Garland, Kenna, VanWyck, 

Cockrell, Gorman, :M:axey, Vest, 

Coke, Harris, l't!organ, Walker, 

Colquitt, .Jackson, Pendleton, Williams. 

ABSENT-26. 

Anthony, Frye, 1\:Iahone, Riddleberger, 

Beck, Gibson, Manderson, Sabin, 

Bowen, Groome, Miller of Cal., Saulsbury, 

Brown, Hampton, Miller ofN. Y., Sewell, Cameron of Pa., Ingalls, Mitchell, Vance. Dawes, Lamar, Palmer, 

Farley, McPherson, Plumb, 

So the amendment was laid on the table. 

Mr. ALDRICH. I desire to test the sense of the Senate on the substitute I offered yesterday. ·I have no disposition to discuss it, for I am quite ready to vote on the question. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment will be read. 

The CHIEF CLERK. It is proposed to strike out all after the enacting clause of the bill and to insert: 

That there shall be established in th~ Department of the Interior a bureau of labor, which shall be under the charge of a commissioner of labor, who shall be appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. The commissioner of labor shall hold his office for four years, and until his suc- cessor shall be appointed and qualified, unless sooner removed, and shall re- ceive a sala.ryof$3,000 a year. ThecommissionershaUcollectinformation upon the subject of labor, its relat-ions to capital, the hours of labor, and the earn- ings oflaboring men and women, and the means of promoting their material, 

social, intellectual, and moral prosperity. The Secretary of the Interior shall appoint a chief clerk, who shall receive a salary of $2,000 per annum, and such other employes BB may be necessary for the said bureau: Provided, That the total expense shall not exceed $25,000 per aun um. During the necessary absence of the commissioner, or when the office shall become vacant, the chief clerk shall perform the duties of commissioner. The commissioner shall annually make a report in writing to the Secretary of the Interior of the information col- lected and collated by him, and containing such recommendations as he may deem calculated to promote the efficiency of the bureau. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing tq the 

substitute proposed by the Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. ALDRICH]. 

Mr. BLAIR. I wish to say simply that the bill. provides for the expenditure of $25,000 of money, and most of it is in the discretion of 

the commissioner-all but the salaries. Abouthiring rooms there will 

be no trouble, and some place can be provided in which to do the work. 

That was one objection made to the bill as it is and for which it was sought to be amended. 
4430 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. MAY 23, 

In regard to the appointment of a chief clerk, as has been suggested 

by the Senator from Wisconsin when the Civil-Service Commissioners 

were created, the President approved the act giving them the power to 

appoint their chief examiner, but suggested that there was doubt as to 

the power of the Commissioners to appoint their examiner, and he 

therefore nominated one and sent the nomination to the Senate and the 

confirmation was made. That is the way they got their chief examiner, 

notwithstanding the prevision in the act which created the commission. 

This bureau, department, or what not (it is all a controversy over words), 

in my judgment , will be no worse situated t.han the Civil-~erviceCommission, which has managed to do a great deal of business thus far. 

If those points are well taken against any amendment of the bill, 

there is no reason why we should not go right on and pass the bill as it 

is. I hope the Senate will do so and do it immediately. 

Mr. BUTLER. Before the Senator takes his seat I should like to 

ask him a question. If I understood him · correctly, he spoke of this 

as a bureau. Do I understand him to take the position now that it is 

a bureau or a department? 

Mr. BLA.IR. A bureau. It is the bill as it came from the House. 

Mr. BUTLER. · The Senator offered an amendment yesterday. 

Mr. BLAIR. I withdrew those amendments, all of them. 

Mr. BUTLER. I was not aware of that. 

Mr. MAXEY. Mr. President--

Mr. HOAR. Will the Senator from Texas allow me a single sentence in regard to what the Senator from New Hampshire said? I wi,sh 

to say before that matter passes from the mind of the Senate that if the 

bill passes we shall have to appropriate of course in an appropriation 

bill for the expenses of the office, the clerk, &c., and when that approprition bill comes up it will be very easy in connection with the appropriation for the clerk to say ''who shall be appointed by the President 

by and with the advice and consent of the Senate,'' and that will 

cover any possible difficulty. 

Mr. HARRIS. It is a violation of the rules. 

Mr. MAXEY. I voted for the amendment presented by the Senator 

from Arkansas because I regarded it ~ a practical measure. The bill 

in my judgment is to a certain extent practical and to a very large extent visionary and speculative. A great deal of the information called 

for in the bill can very readily be found in any work on political econ~ 

omy; a great deal of it as to morals and all that can be found in ethical 

works, and then there is a very large amount of it speculative, and 

necessarily so-as that part relating to strikes and such subjects. Every 

man has his own opinion about it, and you might get a cart-load of 

books from men on that subject, and ·they would differ as to the cause 

of strikes and such things. 

The amendment proposed by the Senator from Rhode Island in my 

judgment is a plain, practical proposition, a business-like·proposition, 

requiring the obtainment of a character of information which will be 

valuable when obtained, and it is within a reasonable scope; it is such 

as r.an be easily obtained, not speculative in its nature, but eminently 

practical, and I think we had better take a bill of that kind. It would 

be an absolute impossibilityto obtain theinformation called for by the 

bill with $25,000 or ten times $25,000. The bill itself, it seems \o me, 

is wholly impracticable, and I think any one who will study it well 

will come to that conclusion. The amendment, I think, is far better 

in every regard, and is an amendment which if properly carried out in 

good faith will yield an amount of valuable information which the 

country .will profit by. I hope the amendment of the Senator from 

Rhode Island will be adopted. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the 

amendment proposed as a substitute by the Senator from Rhode Island 

[Mr. ALDRICH]. 

Mr. ALDRICH. I ask for the yeas and nays on the amendment. 

The yeas and nays were ordered, and the Secretary proceeded to call 

the roll. 

:Mr. BROWN (when his name was called). I am paired with the 

Senator from Maine [Mr. FRYE]. 

The roll-call was concluded . Mr. DAWES. I am paired on this bill with the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. BECK J. I am informed that he would vote for this amendment, and with that understanding I vote. I vote ''yea.'' 

The result was announced-yeas 37, nays 18; as follows: 

.Aldrich, 

.Allison., 

Bayard, 

Butler, 

Camden, 

Cockrell, 

Coke, 

Colquitt, 

Dawes, 

Dolph, 

Blair, 

Call, 

Cameron of Wis., 

Conger, 

Cullom, 

Edmnnds, 

Fair, 

Farley, 

Garland, 

Gorman, 

Hale, 

Harris, 

Hawley, 

Ingalls, 

.Jackson, 

George, 

Harrison, 

Hill 

Hoar, ' 

YE.AS-37. 

.Jonas, 

.Jones of Florida, 

Kenna, 

Lapham, 

Maxey, 

l\liller of N.Y., 

Mitchell, Morgan, 

1\olorrill, · Pendleton, 

N.A.Y8-18. 

Logan, 

McMillan, 

Pike, 

.Jones ofl(evada, 

Platt, 

Sawyer, 

Plnm.b, 

Pugh, 

Ransom, 

Slater, 

VanWyck, 

Vest, 

Walker. 

Sherman, 

Voorhees, 

Wilson. 

.ABSENT-21. 

Anthony, Gibson, Manderson, 

Beck, Groome, Miller of Cal., 

Bowen, Hampton, Palmer, Brown, Lamar, Riddleberger, 

Cameron of Pa., l\IcPh&l'8on, Sabin, 

Frye, l\Iahone, Sanlsbury, 

So the amendment was agreed to. 

. Sewell, 

Vance, 

Williams. 

1tlr. BLAIR. I hope now we may have a vote upon the bill as amended. I ask for the yeas and nays. 

The PRESIDING OFFICER. If there be no further amendment 

in Committee of the Whole the bill will be reported to the Senate. 

The bill was reported to the Senate as amended. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on concurring in the 

amendment made as in Committee of the Whole. 

Mr. GEORG E. I want to be indulged in just one remark before the 

final vote is taken, and that is this: It seems that my colleague on the 

committee, the Senator from Florida who sits to my left [Mr. CALL] 

the Senator from Indiana [Mr. VooRHEES], and myself, are the only 

Democrats voting against the amendment just adopted and sustaining 

the original bill. I desire to say, and let it go upon the record that 

the bill was reported to the House of Repre entatives by a mo~r tic committee and passed by a Democratic House, and if I may be allowed 

to say so, I would say with less than twenty dissenting voices. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator is out of order in stating the proceedings of the House of Representatives. 

Mr. GEORGE. I withdraw the remark then. [Laughter.] 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator, if there be no objection, will proceed in order. 

Mr. GEORGE. That is about all, sir, I intended to say. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on concurring in the 

amendment made as in Committee of the Whole. 

The amendment was concurred in. 

The amendment was ordered to be engrossed and the bill to be read 

a third time. 

The bill was read the third time. 

Mr. BLAIR. I ask for the yeas ai\d nays on the passage of the bill. 

The yeas and nays were ordered, and the Secretary proceeded to call 

the roll. 

Mr. BROWN (whenhisnamewascalled). I am paired generally with 

the Senator from Maine [Mr. FRYE]; but as I believe he would vote 

for the bill as amended, and as I desire to vote for it, I vote '' yea.'' 

Mr. BAYARD (when Mr. SAULSBURY'snamewascalled). Mycolleague [Mr. SAULSBURY], who is necessarily absent, is paired with the 

Senator from Minnesota [Mr. SABIN]. If he were here, I think my 

colleague ~ould vote ''yea." 

Mr. McMILLAN. My colleague [Mr. SABIN] would vote " yea " 

also, if he were here. He is paired with the Senator from Delaw~re [Mr. SAULSBURY]. 

The roll-call was concluded. 

Mr. RANSOM. I desire to say that my colleague [Mr. V .ANCE] is 

absent in North Carolina on a public duty. If he were here, I think he 

would vote '' yea.'' 

Mr. DAWES. I am paired on this bill with the Senator from Kentucky [Mr. BECK]. If he were here, I should vote "yea." 

Mr. HARRIS. I desire to say to the Senator 'from 1tfa.ssachusetts 

that the Senator from Kentucky informed me of his pair with the Senator, but my opinion is that if the Senator from Kentucky were here 

he would vote ' ' yea.'' 

Mr. DAWES. Then I think I shall be justified in recording my vote 

for the bill. I vote '' yea.'' 

Mr. SAULSBURY. !vote "nay." 

Mr. CONGER. My colleague [Mr. P .ALMER] is necessarily absent. 

I understand he is paired with the Senator from Louisiana [Mr. GmsoN]. If my colleague were here, he would vote "yea." 

The result was announced;-yeas 55, nays 2; as follows: 

.Aldrich, 

.Allison, 

Bayard, 

Blair, 

Brown, 

Butler, 

Call, 

Camden, 

Cameron of Wis., 

Coke, Conger, 

Cullom, 

Dawes, 

Dolph, 

Anthony, 

Beck, 

Bowen, 

Ca.m.eron of Pa., 

Coc}.crell, 

Edmunds, 

Fair, · Fat'ley, Garland, 

George, 

Gorman, . Hale, 

Harris, 

Harrison, 

H awley, Hill 

Hoa'r, 

Ingalls, 

.Jackson, 

YE.A8-55. 

.Jonas, 

.Jones of Florida, .Jones of Nevada, 

Kenna, 

Lapham, 

Logan, 

McMillan, 

Maxey, 

Miller ofN. Y., 

Mitchell, 

Morga.n1 Morrill, 

Pendleton, 

Pike, 

NAY8-2. 

Colquitt, Saulsbury. 

Frye, 

Gibson, 

Groome, 

Hampton, 

Lamar, 

.ABSENT-19. 

~IcPherson, 

Mahone, 

Manderson, 

Miller of Cal., 

Palmer, 

So the bill was passed . 

Platt, Plnmb, Pugh, 

Ransom, 

Sawyer, 

Sherman, Slater, VanWyck, 

Vest, 

Voorhees, 

W a lker, Williams, Wilson. 

Riddleberger, 

Sabin, 

Sewell, 

Vance. 

' I 
1884. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 4431 

On motion of :M:r. ALDRICH, the title was amended so as ro read 

"A bill to e.'3tablish a bureau of labor." 

POLYGAMY IN UTAH. 

:M:r. HOAR. I ask the Chair what is the l'egular order? 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The regular order, which is the 

Utah bill, will be laid before the Senate. . . The Senate as in Committee of the Whole, proceeded to consider the 

bill (S. 1283) 'ro amend an act entitled "An act to amend section 5352 

of the Revised Statutes of the United States in reference ro bigamy, 

and for other purposes, n approved :M:arch 22, 1882. 

Mr. HOAR. I desire ro have the bill now read~ and I desire to make 

some remarks upon the bill, which will be very brief; but I should 

like to make them this afternoon, as I shall be absent next week. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The bill will be read. 

The Chief Clerk read the bill. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendments of the Committee 

on the Judiciary will be reported. 

The CHIEF CLERK. The first amendment of the committee is ro 

strike out section 18 and insert in lieu thereof--

:M:r. HOAR. This bill is reported from the committee, and the 

amendments which come from the same committee constitute their 

scheme and I ask unanimous consent that the amendments be considered as' incorporated in the original bill, subject in all respects ro parliamentary amendment, as the original bill wo_uld be, S? that ~e faet 

of their having been adopted shall make no difference m the nght ro amend. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Massachusetts asks 

unanimous consent-

:M:r. BROWN. As I understand the Sena.ror from Massachusetts, 

that will not interfere with any right of amendment. 

Mr. HORR. I reserved that expressly. 

· The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from :M:assachnsetts~s 

unanimous consent that the amendments reported from theComm1ttee 

on the Judiciary, all of which are additions except changing the phraseology of section 18 of the bill, be considered as a part of the bill as 

originally reported, and subject to amendment. Is there objection? 

The Chair hears none, and it is so ordered. The bill is now before the 

Senate as in Committee of the Whole and open to amendment. 

Mr. HOAR. I suppose the amendments should be read. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendments will be read. · 

The CHIEF CLERK. It is proposed ro strike out section 18 and insert in lieu thereof the following: 

SEc. 18. That the provisions of section 9 of said act, approved March 22, 1882, 

in regard to registration and election offices, and the registration of voters, and 

the conduct of elections, and the powers and duties of the board therein men- tioned, shall continue and remain operative until the provision and laws therein 

referred to, to be made and enacted by the Legislative Assembly of said Territory 

of Utah, shall have been made and enacted by said Assembly and shall have been 

approved by Congress. • 

And to add as additional sections: 

SEC. 19. That whoever commits adultery shall be punished by impriSOIJment 

in the penitentiary not exceeding three years; and when the act is committed 

between a married woman and a man who is unmarried, both parties to such act shall be deemed guilty of adultery; and when such act is committed between a married man and a woman who is unmarried, the man shall be deemed guilty of adultery. 

· SEc. 20. That if an unmarried man or woman commits fornication, each of 

them shall be punished by imprisonment not exceeding six months, or by fine not exceeding $100. · 

SEc. 21. That commissioners appointed by the supreme court and district courts in the Territory of Utah shall possess and may exercise all the powers and jurisdiction that are or may be possessed or exercised by justices of the peace in said Territory under the laws thereof, and the same powers conferred 

by law on commissioners appointed by circuit courts of the United States. . SEC. 22. That the marshal of said Territory of Utah, and his deputies, shall po ess and may exercise all the powers in executing the laws of the United 

States pos essed and exercised by sheriffs and their deputies as peace officers, 

and they shall cause all offenders against the law, in his view, to enter into re- cognizance to keep the peace and to appear at the next term of the court having jurisdiction of the case, and to commit to jail in case of failure to give such 

recognizance. They shall quell and suppress assaults and batteries, riots, routs, 

affrays, and insurrections, and shall apprehend and commit to jail all felons. 

SEc. 23. That the office of Territorial superintendent of district schools created 

by the laws of Utah is hereby declared vacant; and it shall be the duty of the supreme court of said Territory to appoint a. Territorial superintendent of district schools, who shall possess and exercise all the powers and duties imposed by the laws of said Territory upon the Territorial superintendent of district 

schools, and who shall receive the same salary and compensation, which shall 

be paid out of the treasury of said Territory; and the laws of the Territory of 

Utah providing for the method or election and appointment of such Territorial 

superintendent of district schools are hereby suspended until the further action 

of Congress shall be had in respect thereto. The said superintendent shall have power to prohibit the use in any district school of any book of a sectarian char- acter or otherwise unsuitable. Said superintendent shall collect and classify 

statistics and other information respecting the district schools in said Territory, showing their progress, the wllole number of children of school age, the num- ber who attend school in each year in the respective counties and average len~th of time of their attendance, the number of teachers and the compensa.- tion paid to the same, the number of teachers who are Mormons, the number 

who are so-called gentiles, the number of children of Mormon parents and the 

number of children of so-called gentile parents, and their respective average at- tendance at school. All of which Statistics and information shall be annually 

reported to Congress, through the governor of said Territory and the Depart- me,nt of th~ Interior. 

Mr. HOAR. There is either a misprint or a mistake in the drafting 

of the bill on the tenth line of the twelfth section, to which my attention 

has been call~. I desire that that may be corrected by the Clerk. The 

words "by and" should be insetted before the word "with." 

The PRESIDENT pro tempm·e. The amendment will be reported. 

The CHIEF CLERK. In section 12,line 10, after the words "United 

States," insert "by and;" so as to read: 

The President of the United States, by and with the advice and consent of the 

Senate. 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. HOAR. In section 22 of the amendment reported, in line 4, I 

desire that the language shall stand: "And each of them shall cause 

all offenders against the law," instead of "they." It is a mere verbal 

change. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment will be read. 

The CHIEF CLERK. In section 22, line 4, strike out '' they '' and 

insert '' each of them,'' 

The amendment was agreed to. 

Mr. HOAR. Mr. PresidentMr. SHER:M:AN. It is now rather late and the Senate ~ thin. If 

the Senator will give way I move that the Senate proceed to the con- sideration of executive business. 

The motion was agreed ro; and the Senate proceeded to the consideration of executive business. After one hour and forty minutes spent in 

executive session the doors were reopened, and (at 5 o'clock and 52 

mihutes p. m.) the Senate adjourned. 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 

FRIDAY, May 23,1884. 

The Honse met at 11 o'clock a.m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. 

JOHNS. LINDSAY, D. D. 

The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. SYMPSON, one of its clerks, announced that the Senate had passed bills of the following titles; in 

which the concurrence of the Honse of Representatives was requested: 

A bill (S. 733) donating the military reservation at Plattsburg, N. 

Y., ro the village of Plattsburg for a public park; 

A bill (S. 1347) for the relief of sufferers by loss of the Government 

steamer J. Don Cameron; and · 

A bill (S. 2243) to authorize foot and carriage or railroa~ bridges 

across the Mississippi River at Saint Pa\ll, in the State of :Minnesota. 

PERSONAL EXPLANATION. 

:M:r. WELLER. :M:r. Speaker, I rise ro a question of personal privilege. I send ro the Clerk'~ desk and ~k ro haver~ extracts from a morning newspaper (Washmgton National Republican, May 23, 1884) 

which I have marked. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

Between the first and second votes Messrs. LAWRENCE and LANHAM paired. Mr. WELLER, wbo had voted with the Republicans on the moti.on to lay on the 

table, this time refrained from voting, and Mr. WARNER,. of Oh~o, and 1\Ir: PAT- TON, Gf Pennsylvania, who had not before. voted, on this mot10n voted m the 

affirmative. This accounts for the change m the result. . . The House by a vote of yeas 124., nays 134, refused to recommit the resolution. 

Mr. HoRR, ~fMichigan, rising to a question of pr~vilege, said: "No ~x-m~~­ ber of Congress has a right to the floor if he takes It and t~en abuses Its privi- leges by attempting to influence legislation here. I now rise to say that It has 

been brought to my notice by a Democratic member o.f .this H?use .that an ex- member of Congress, who is the father of one of the litigants m th1s case, ~as 

been on the floor of the House soliciting members, sending for t·hem, taking 

them int-o consultation and attempting to influence them in their votes on this case. If that be true, i't is such a violation of the dignity and integrity of this House that it ought not to go unnoticed." "I desire to say," replied Mr. RANDALL,.of Pennsylvania, "tha~the fat~er ?f 

the contestant would be unnatural if he did not take the deepest mterest m his 

son's contest. · [Applause on the Democratic and laughter on the Republi.can - side.] And I stand here a witness to the fact that that gentleman hasexermsed 

the most careful propriety in connection therewith." LApplause on the Demo- cratic side.] 

l\1r. HoRR said that he had made the statement, not for the purpose of a~y 

political claptrap, but because he found that the dignity of the Ho_use and 1ts 

honor were being violated, and he felt it his duty to. call. the at~nt10n of the House to the fact. The gentleman from Pennsylvama sa1d that 1t was. nat.ural 

for a father to feel for his son. So it was, but it was also natural fo.r him, if he 

had the sense of honor he should have, to do it in a seemly and becoming man-

~~ . "And so he has," exclaimed Mr. RANDALL. Mr. Cox. I would rather have a man come here undertaking t? present the 

claims of his son honorably to the House than your mean, sneaking mercena- ries that come here to grab and raid the public TreasurJ:. . . Mr. BAYNE offered a resolution instructing theCommitteeon·Rules to mquue and report to the House whether or notHon. William H. English, an ex-I?ember of tills House, has violated the privileges thereof in the contested-elect10n case of English vs. Peelle. . The Speaker said that while the resolution. undoub~~Y presented a 9-uestion 

of privilege he did not think it was of a higherjrivilege than the r1ght of a member to hls seat and except by consent it coul not be offered. Mr. BAYNE reotf~red his resolution as a question of privilege. 

Mr. DuNN suggested t-hat it be amended by directing a? inquiry as to. whet~?-er 

Green B. Raum, late a member of this House, had lobbted for the whlSky bill. Mr THOMPSON hoped that no such amendment would be pressed. :M:r: BAYNE said that he made his proposition in good faith for the pu~pos.e of 

preserving the integrity and dignity of the House. He cared not w!J.om It might hit. He offered it because he ha.d information that a mep1ber of this House ha.d 

yoted in the ~rly part of the proceedings; that he ha.d been asked to leave his 

'