1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 1287 

money as well as its denomination in which debts are to be paid. The men who do that are the wise and the skilled, the rich, :the provident. 

They may perhaps have protected . themselves against this danger, but 

when I think of the others, the great mass of toilers, who are to be 

affected by it, I confess I feel a sinking of the heart. 

Yes, Senators, I not only feel for those who may have but little property, but I think there may well be a suggestion here and now, that 

the safety of the rich rests mainly upon the content of the poor. · If men will follow no law but that of gain, and have no lim1t but that 

w4ich their"rapacity .may set, they will be taught that there are laws 

of htunanity which can not with safety be disregarded. Therefore, 

in dealing with this great and delicate subject of the currency and 

the money of the people, no rash and ignorant experiments should be 

tried,J>Ut just andadmitted laws shall be regarded and insisted upon, 

and the chimeras of debtors, of speculators, of irreverent aspirants to 

power that never can be given to a government, shouldn~t be suffe~ 

to come in and create a state of affairs that brings a tidal wave of hmnan 

wretchedness,. and with it insecurity to property in al! its forms. 

So, sir, I speak to-day in the interest of every earner of daily wages, 

man, woman, and cQild, in the United States.. l speak for every provident and self-denying .saver of wages whose little store against the 

rainy day has been laid by. To the savings-bank depositor, to the capitalist, whether small or great, these truth~ apply, and sooner or later, 

and soon rather than late, they must control. Thereforeitisthat I am anxioll§J for the passage of the very feature. that is proposed to• be 

stricken from this bill, and that is the contemplated suspension of the 

silver coinage under the act of 1878. Indeed, sir, my own view would 

be in favorofamoreprompt suspension. But to secure the fa-ctofacertainty in the future of this suspension would be an advantage so practicable and so valuabl~ that, knowing the infinite- variety of human 

opinion ·and the necessity of the abatement of individual judgments, 

I shall vote for that because I can not mo.ve m01·e promptly. 

As I have said in a very unprepared way, and perhap I should have 

made more careful preWJ>ration, I do not believe that there is either a legal or a moral 9r an honorable-if you can distinguish morality trom 

honor-obligation upon the Governn:tent of the United States to do what 

is called redeein the trade-dollars, nor to exchange them for others; -much less do I consider that if there was such an obligation it is satisfied by the action now proposed, because we are simply continuing 

and intensifying in our proposed remedy the very ~vil which the rem- edy is. imagined to prevent . . That is to say, we are issuing millions 

upon· millions of coin of confessedly inferior value to that which we are told now we ought to redeem. Shall we· not hereafter be called on, 

with equal justice, to redeem these standard dollars, whose intrinsic 

value is less than trade-dollars? 

Senators, does it not after all come down to this hinge : Can the 

Government of th~ United States create value by statute? I do not 

think-any man will say they can. They can impair the obligatio.ns of 

contracts. Unquestionably and according to the Supreme Court of the 

United States in their last decision they may impair or wholly destroy 

the value of every pecuniary obligation that is· expressed in lawful 

money of the United States. I do not wish, at this time, to comment 

upon that startling decision; but there is. one thing the United States· Supreme Court, and the Congress of the United States, and all the ar- mies that can be raised to enforce the edicts either-of court or of Conp-ess ·can not do, and that is to crea.te a value, .to maintain a value 

against the opinion and belief of the person to whom it is tendered. 

Every such attempt has had '' a most l:l.me and i~potent conclusion.'' 

Thus, on June 17, 1864, under the lead of Thaddeus Stevens, of Penusylv(lnia, a law was enacted prohibiting under heavy penalties, both 

of fine and imprisonment, future contracts in gold, the object being 

to abate the premium on gold, and consequently to ass~t the value 

:md receivability of paper currency. The passage of the law was followed by an immediate advance in the premium upon gold, which rose from 196! per cent. to 250 per cent. in less than two weeks, and led to 

the hasty repeat of the act on July 2, 1864, after a futile existence .of 

fifteen days. 

Men may be ·cheated out of the entire result of their life's labor, 

and a piece of worthless paper may answer for one-half century of 

honest toil. That maybe according to the decision of the court; but 

when we look to the future, and when we look to contracts, and when we look to the performance of obligations outside of this country, we shall find such propositions utterly impotent; not only impotent, bnt 

discredited and discreditable.. They will be as the idle wind that pas es men by and they respect not. 

I voted to ta.ke up this bill, and I shall vote for itB pa sage. I shaU . vote for its passage to secure what these petitioners demand. No man need yield UJ> his dollar of 420 grains, nine-tenths fine, for a dollar weighing 412~ grains. There is notliing compulsory in that. As 

I have said before, I do not believe there is a legal obligation to take 

up the trade-dollar, and certainly, if there be to redeem, do not let us 

so trifle with reason and truth as to say it is redemption to pay that 

which has greater value with tha.t.'whichhasless, unless this wonderful and magie.al power does reside in the Congress of.the United States 

to create·value by statute. It is legislative juggling with the truth, 

and sooner or later the people of the United States will find it out. 

If Congress has not the power to create values the continuance of the 

pretense of its exercise can· only lead and must lead to confusion and 

distress, and tlie practical fuct remains that we are or ought to use every 

endeavor to maintain by some arrangement with the leading commercial 

nations the full use of the two precious metals co-ordinately to make 

up the great volume of money for the world's business. That is what I 

desire to see. I believe that for this, co-operation .among commercial 

nations is necessary. I believe that all the currency necessary for the 

present hour is here now; and should future experience dictate to us 

the necessity and the wisdom of passing to the basis of a single metal as our principal Standard of value, when that time comes we shall dis- cuss it; but ii:J. the mean time I wish my steps and my votes to be guided 

by the unmistakable light of experience. · I must remain true to my 

convictions until some light shall be given that shall cause those con- victions to be changed. 

Mr. President, the Congress of the Uni~d States -can not by statute 

create values, and the attempt to continue to do so will only lead to further emba.rmssment, distress, and loss. 

Mr. ALLISON. I move that the Senate do now adjourn. 

The motion was agreed to; and (at 3 o'clock and 4A minutes p.m.) 

the Senate adjourned. 

ROUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 

THURSDAY, February 5, 1885. 

The House met at 12 o'clock m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. JOHN 

S. LINDSAY., D. D. 

The Journal of -yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. 

- TEMPORARY POLICE FORCE FOR. IN.A.l:JGURATION. 

!lr. FOLLETT. Mr~ Spea1ier, I rise to !lubmit a privileged report. 

I am directed by the committee of conference to ·submit tl;le report 

which I send to the desk. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. . The report will be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

The committee of confercuee on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of tbe Senate to the bill (H. R. 8121.) tQ enable the commission· ers of tlJc District of Columbia to maintain public orde.r dining the ceremonies 

of the inauguration of the P.resident, and for other purposes, having met, a.ft.er 

full and free conference have agreed to recommend and do 1'ecommend tQ their 

respective Houses as follows: 

That the Sena.t~ recede from its amendment numbered 4. That the House recede from its disagreements to the amendments of the Sen- ate numbered 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7,and agree to the same. . That U1e House recede from its disagreement to the IUDendment of the Senat-e 

numbered 3, and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: Restore the matter proposed to be stricken out by said amendment; ·and the Senate agree to fhesame. 

JOHN F. FOLLETT, 

J. G. CANNON, 

Managers ~ th:e part of the Hou.se. 

ISHAM G. HARRIS, 

JOHN J. INGALLS, 

AUSTIN F. PIKE, 

Managers on the part of the Sendte. 

The committee of conference submit the following statement, under 

the rule: 

The managers on the part of the House Qf the conference on the disagree.ingo votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 8121) to enable the commissioners of the District of Columbia. tQ maintain public order during the ceremonies of the inauguration of the President., and for other pUrp<>:~es, submit the following written statement in explanation of the effect ol 

the action recommended by the conference committee : If the action recommended in the conference report is ratified by the two Houses the bill will appropriate $8,000, payable in equal amounts frotn the 

United States Treasury and the revenues of the District of Columbia., and will 

prescribe a fine not exceeding $25, in the police court, for violation of rules and 

regulations that may be prescribed by the commissioners to maintain public ~~~r during the period of the inauguration and from February 20 to March 6, 

JOHN F. FOLLETT, J. G. CANNON, 

Managers on the part oj the House. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to the re· port of the committee of conference. . The report was agreed to. · 

Mr. FOLLETT moved to reconsider the vote by which the .report was agreed to; and also moved that the motion to rec.:onsider be laid on the 

table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

CONGO CONFERENCE AT BERLIN". 

~'Cr. BELMONT. ?t{r. Speaker, I am directed by the Comin.ittee on Foreign Affairs to .report back the resolution which I send to the desk 

and recommend, its passage. . The SPEAKER prg tempore. The resolution will be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Resolved, That the President be requested, if not incompatible with the public 

interests, to cause the originals or copies of all communications which have been 

received respecting the Congo conference, and especially copies of the text of the 

commissions or powers sent by the Government to each of the three AmeriCan 

plenipotentiaries or agents, to be immediately transmitted to this House. 

1tlr. BELMONT. I ask the present consideration of the resolution. 
1288 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE~ . FEBRUARY 5, 

Mr. KEIFER. I desire to inquire of the gentleman from New York 

why this re olution requests toe President of the United Sta.tes to send 

the original documents here? Why not request that copies be furnished? 

Mr. BELMONT. The resolution specifies either originals or copies, 

and the text of the resolution reco~es the diScretion which always 

rests with the Department of State ill complying with such requests. 

This resolution I may say, Mr. Speaker, is unanimously recommended 

by the committee. It is merely to re-enforce a previous demand already 

made in reference to tliis subject. · .l\lr. KEIFER. . I do not obje<;t to the resolution, except; I think it 

is very unusual and perhaps without precedent to call upon the President tor original papers. I would suggest to the gentleman that it be 

modified in that respect. . I'llr. BELMONT. -It always remains, of course, within the discretion 

of the Executive to refuse compliance with a resolution of the Honse, 

and the resolution clearly states, ''if not incompati~le with the public 

interests" that such a communication as is.specified shall be made. 

Mr. KEIFER. I think it is unusual, entirely so. Perhaps there is no case like it where the House has called upon the Executive of the 

Unit-ed States for original papers. 

I move to strike out the words "original or" in the resolution, and 

if the resolution can be again xeported it will be seen that this applies 

it exclnsh·ely to copies. 

1\lr. POST, of Pennsylvania. I should like to ask if this is a report 

from the Commit_tee on Foreign Affairs? · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will state that the gentle- man from New York [Ur. BEL:\IO~T] presents thisrep01·t by direction, as hestates, of the Committee on ForeignAffairs. . M~·. BELMONT. It is unanimously reported by the committee, 

1\Ir. KEIFER. I suggest to the gentleman from New York that it be 

modified by striking out that part of the resolution ea,lling upon the 

President to furnish original papers. 

Mr. BELl\IONT. I have no objection to such- a modification. 

1\lr. KEIFER. I ask that the resolution be aghln read. 

The resolution was again reported. 

Mr. KEIFER. I now move to strike out the words "~riginal 01·." 

The amendment was ag£eed to. 

:Mr. ADAMS, of Illinois. I should like to ask the gentleman from 

New York what diffe.rence exists between this 1·esolutiou of inquiry 

and the former resolution, which I infer the gentlema~ from New York ·on the Committee on Foreign Affairs deems insufficient. 

Mr. BELMONT. That report was a preliminary report made by the . Secretary of State, and it is understood that another report is soon to 

follow. The House -has asked fer the text of the credentials to all our · representatives at the conference. The answer was not made to that · extent. This resolution asks for copies of the'powers granted. to all 

our representatives engaged iri the Berlin conference, and therefore was adopted by the Committee on Foreign Affairs to re-enforce the previous 

demand. I move the previous question on the resolution as amended. 

The previous question was ordered; and under the operatio~ thereof 

the resolution as amended was adopted. 

Mr. BELMONT moved to reconsider the vote by which tl1e resolution was adopted; and also moved that the.motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

A.l\lEND:UENT OF SPECIAL RL'LE. 

Mr. RANDALL. I rise t~ make a privileged report. I submit from 

the Committee on Rules the re_port·which I send to the desk, and upon 

which I ask the previous question. - · The Clerk read as follows: 

Amend th~ special rule adopted on tllc 3d instant as follows: That before asking for objections to the bill or resolution indicated it shall be in order for the 

debate provided fo1· to be bad, nnd t.Bereafter there shall be no further debate. 

The Committee on Rulesfurtherrecommend that the language of the rule inconsistent therewith be changed accordingly. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I hope the rule will be readMit is proposed to be 

amended. 

Mr. SPRINGER. We all understand it. I OQject. 

!h. RANDALL. There is a single change. The report changes the 

pJace of the objections by ten members from immediately after the 

reading of the bill or resolution until after the ten-minute debate; and 

if any one wants to have the report accompanying the bill read it can be read as part, of the affirmative or negative of the d~bate. 

1\Ir. HOU!AN. How does the amendment.affect the right to amend? 

Mr. RANDALL. There is no right to amend and there was not in 

the original rule. 

Mr. ·noLMA.N. I think there ought to have been. . 

1\lr. Mcl\IILLIN. I suggest to the gentleman from Pennsylvania 

that one difficulty that will arise in applying the ruleasp1·opo ed to be 

amended will be the fact that some oftherepor)1! will takelongertime 

for theil: reading than is provided for debate; and in that event we will 

be cut off in the midstofthe report by the rule. 

Mr. RANDALL. I ask for the previous question. 

Mr. REED, of 1\Iaine. I would like to say that I have had no part 

in this amendment or in the original proposition. 

:Mr. 1IcMILLIN. That speaks well both for the amendment and 

for the original proposition. 

1\-Ir. REED, of Maine. The gentleman from Tennessee--

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The previous question has been moved. 

Mr. KEIFER. Will the gentleman from, Pennsylvania [ME. RANDALL] yield to me for a moment? I concurred in this report this motning, and wish to say--

Several members called for the regular order. 

1\Ir. KEIFER. I understaod that the gentleman from Pennsylvania 

[Mr. RANDALL] was willing to yield to me for-a minute. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would gladly indulge the 

gentleman from Ohio, but the previous question ~demanded by the 

gentleman from Pennsylvania on his report. · The previous question was ordered. 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore (putting the question). The question 

is on the adoption of the report. · 1\Ir. REED, of Maine. I claim the right of debate under the rule. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Maine has his 

right of debate, but not during the time that the House is engaged in 

voting on the· re.port. 

Mr. REED, of 1\Iaine. I rose in my place in time to claim the right 

of debate. 

The SPEAKER pro· tempore. The Chair accepts the stat~ment of the 

gentleman. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I rise to a question of order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. 

1\"Ir. SPRINGER. The Chair had proceeded to put the question to a vote and the time for debate had passed. . • 

. The SPEAKER pro tempo1·e. The Chair must state that it has no option; and it does not desire to question the statement ~f the gentle- man from 1\Iaine, that he had risen and claimed in time his right to debate under the rule. 

1\Ir. RANDALL. Thatis under the clause allowing fifteen minutes 

on each side. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. That is correct. 

Mr. RANDALL. I do not want to lose my right to the floor. . 1\Ir. ·REED, of 1\Iaine. I know the gentleman from Tennessee [.1\Ir. 

:McMILLIN], in the remark he was kind enough to make a few moments 

ago, intended only an impertinence. ·That was his sole· object. But I do 

no~ intend to reply to him in that vein, because there are·serious questions involved in the method of conducting the busines.~ofthis House, 

questions to which. the gentleman from Tennessee would address himself provided he was capable of comprehending their importance. I desire, however, to spend no furthe:c time on him. 

The method by which we shall conduct the business of this House 

lies at the very foundation of the public business. Unless we have a right and proper method of conductj.ng the public business we are wasting the public time; and th_.is rule which was presented on the 3d 

instant by the gentleman from Pennsylvania is only one of a series 

which I have witnessed in procession since the present system of rules 

of the House was adopted. 

We go on for a period covering nearly the entire session of Congress 

under a· system which obstructs and prevents transaction of the public 

business, and then when we find otliselves within four weeks of the 

close of the session-a four weeks which are also mortgaged by the 

appropriation bills-we then undertake to establish some such hybrid 

affair as the present rule for. the purpose of stopping the clamor of 

members of this House. We try to CI'QWd in the four weeks which are already predestined to be occupied by the appropriation bills the busi- ness of this House which should ha.ve been sp1·ead over the ent~e period 

of two years. We. undertake to run Niagara through a quill. That 

is the effort that is made Congress ~fter Congress since this inf~mous 

system of rules was adopted, and the result is always the same. .A. few men are selected. Those men are allowed to put through a few bills 

which are of no consequence, because not even ten men can be found 

to object to them .. Now, that is a substitute for government in this country by the ma- jority, and against that system I uttered my protest and wished to be 

personally kept clear from the responsibility of it, and to that the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr: McMILLIN] .~as kind. enough to say that 

my action was an approva.l:~f these transactions to his mind. What that 

says for his mind I leave the House to consider. 

Now, Mr. ·speaker, I want to reiterate again that this system is entitled to t.he approval ofnolegislator. It is-false in its principle; it is 

bad in its results; it only conduces to a congestion of the public busi- ness instead of a transaetion of it, and for my part I want the responsibility of this whole system, with its outhouses and all, put upon the men who started it originally and who are now undertaking to p'a.tch it. 

And I rise for the purpose of again calling the attention of the House 

to this system in order that men ma.y understand it, in order that when 

an opportunity comes again ·in the next Congress to vote it down men may-consider the principle, or lack of principle, upon which it is founded, 

and not find themselves at the end of the second session of that Congress as hopeless and helpless as they are to-day. 

Mr. Speak-er, 1 reserve the balance of my fifteen minutes. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Maine [Mr. REED] 

has ten minutes remaining, and is recognized as controlling the time on his-side. 

Mr. McMILLIN. :J\Ir. Speaker, in redponse to the charge of the dis-
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-- HOUSE. 1289 

tinguished Representative from Main~ [:Ur. REED] c_oncerning the pertinence or impertinence of my remark to him, I have this to say: that 

this House will bear me witness that among all of its thtee hundred 

and twenty-five members there is not one who has less cause to criticise impertinence on the part of others than the Representative from 

Maine [1\Ir. REED]. [Applause on the Democratic side.] Who ever raised a debate here that his remarks were not in it, in season anq out 

of season? As to the magnificence of his intellect, why, probably it 

would be rashness for any man to compare himself with what that 

gentleman thinks he .is. [Applause and laughter. on the Democratic 

side.] Thad. Stevens was once asked on this :fl9or who was the greatest man here. He responded, giving the name of a Representative 

,,.hom I will not name. The gentleman who had made the inquiry said, "Ah, is that so? 1 

had not thought it.'' ' 'Well, ' ' said Mr. Stevens, ''if you do not believe it go and ask him; he himself will tell you so." [Laughter.] Tes~ed by that mle, I know no ·man who would stand higher than the 

gentleman from Maine, and probably he would stand a few stories higher 

tested in that way than he would if tested by any other rule. 

Now, Mr. Speaker, concerning the disposition of the gentleman fr~ 

:Maine as to these rules, or as to other matters here, some have thought 

that his peculiarity was attributable to a perverse nature. Others h~ve 

concluded that art and long practice had much to do with it; but those 

who know him best give him credit for being the result of such a com- bination of art and nature as has not resulted in the production of any 

:prototype of him and is not likely to result in any successor. [Laughter and applause on the Democmtic side.] I am willing for the House 

to judge what my action has been in the past and what th~ merits of 

my standing are upon this floor, and I do not hesitate to say that the 

gentleman from Maine [Mr; REED] has on more occasions spoken here 

in a way that was Critical of others than he has spoken anywhere else, 

and probably more frequently than he would speak anywhere else where 

the protection of the -rules did not surround him. [Cries of ' ' Oh ! '' 

" Ob ! " on the Republican side.] · Mr. REED, of :Maine. Mt:. Speaker, I think that in that last sen- tence the gentleman from Tenne.-.~ee struck his natural level. [Applause on the Republican side.] The other heights to whlch he ascended 

'I perceive now were furnished to him by the gentlemen who surrounded 

him and with whom he was busily consulting during the few observations which I had the honor to make. It is n. great pity for his own reputation that he did not adhere to his borrowed utterances instead of 

dropping to his natural situation as in'the last sentence. [Laugther on the Republican side.] 

Mr. McMILLIN. If the gentleman from Maine ~1\Ir. REED] cat;1 

.improve his utterances by borrowing, I would suggest the borrowing 

process. [Laughter on the Democratic side.] 

Mr. POST, of Pennsylvania. 1\lr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. 

The SPEAKER pro te'lll]JOre. The gentleman will state it. 

1\lr. POST, of Pennsylvania. I wi~h to inquire whether it is now in 

order for us to pro~eed to the transaction of public business? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has recognized the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. RA:NDALL]. · l\1r. RANDALL. 1\lr. Speaker, I have heard so often the views of 

the gentleman from 1\Iaine [Mr. REED] as to the present rules of the 

House, that I do not think it is necessary to waste the public time further in connection with that subject, except to -say that the other mem- bers oftbe Committee on Rules will cheerfully give him a certificate 

that he bas had nothing to do with the preparation of this amendment. 

One word more. - I am free to say to this House that these rules in 

almost their entire volume come to us from a period beyond our own generation; and these rules, as they exist-, are in the main those which were adopted by the Committee on Rules without political bias and 

by a. unariimous vot~. · So far as ·my action in connection with the mles is concerned, I 

have always kept in view the object of preventing what I conceived to 

be unwarranted expenditures from the Trea&ury of the United States, 

and I shall long continue, I trust, to occupy· that position: 

1\ir. REED, of Maine. How much time have I remaining? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair understands gentle~en on both sides as having reserved whatever time they did not occupy. 

The gentleman from Maine bas eight minutes remaining. l\Ir. REED, of 1\Iaine. I yield four minutes to the gentleman from 

1\lichigan (1\lr. HORR]. . Mr. HORR. 1\Ir. Speake1·, I desire to say one word in reference to 

this trouble about the rules, from the· fact that having served in this 

House for several terms I :find myself able to state only one thing con- clusively, and that is that it is utterly impossible l:mder our present 

rules for any one in this House to do anything that is really important or to pass any measure that w:ill surely benefit the country. I do not 

know the remedy. I do know that at the opening of the last two ses- sions of Congress an eftbrt bas been made by the gentleman from Maine 

[Mr. REED] and others to annul these rules, so that the majority of 

this House nilght do some business. · I do know that the gentlem~n 

from Pennsylvania [Mr. RAND AU .. ] has fought that effort persist-ently, 

and bas prevented it from being successful, until to-day we stand he:re 

with onr hands tied, and we can do no le.¢slation at all. 

We met here last night for the purpose of considenngoneofthemost 

important bills before the House. We were blocked instantly and successfully by the persistency of the gentleman from Kentucky, who an- geredme at thetime excee~ingly, asithoughthisopposition was foolish 

and unreasonable. I said more to him privately than that; but to-day 

I wish to apologize to him, for after I reached home and thought over what he had done I found I had been blaming him for precisely the 

same thing that the leaders on this :floor do repeatedly. It was only 

1tlonday last. when the gentleman from Penmylvania himself held us here all day andawayinto the night simply because he feared the passage 

of some legislation that did not exactly snit him. He himself blocked 

the whole proceedings of this House, and I am not the man who should 

put on airs about this matter. I fear I have done the same thing when- ever a measure came up that did notsnitme. ·[Laughter.] But! say 

that a rule which permits one or two men to block the entire business of 

this House is" destructive of legislation, and prevents the majority of 

the people's R-epresentatives· from securing the transaction of any busi- ness here at all._ · 

This new rule which we are about to adopt can not relieve us. We 

witnessed the pr-oceedings here yesterday morning, when bill after bill 

without any consideration was objected to and laid aside. · ·A. MEl\IBER. Not voted on at all. 

1\Ir. HORR. No~ voted upon-not allowed to come before·theHouse. 

The difficulty is, our rules are so framed that a few men in a. minority can prevent the passage of any bill that they see fit to oppose. It 

is too late now in this session for any remedy. We have more work 

before·us than we can do. We shall do well if we succeed in passing 

the appropriation bills. The rule now under consideration, with the 

amendment proposed, will prov:e of little use. You can possibly get 

through under it four bills in a morning. Under the amendment the 

spea.king will go on for ten minutes before objection is called for; and 

the rotatory motions which will take place here-at intervals will allow 

possibly from one to three bills to be acted upon-with the best of luck 

not to exceed :five-and many of them will be thrown out by the objections of ten members. I sat here and witnessed the operation of the 

Pomid rule, when I saw this same thing tried; and I never saw a bill 

passed under that rule. 

A 1\iEMDER. Oh, yes. 

Mr. HORR. Har.dly one;_ there may have been one or two '\].nimportant bills; certainly no bill that was of general interest .. The difficulty is, when you prevent the majority fmm doing the busi- ness of this Hotise it makes little difference then whe her you limit 

the power of obstruction to one, :five, or ten men. We can get no remedy during this session. I do not think you gentlemen on the other side want any remedy. I be1ieve I am not doing 

my friend from Pennsylvania any injustice when I say to this House 

that I think we are doing folly as much business as he desires to see done-just as much as he intends ~ have done-just as much~ a few ·gentlemen over there haYe determined to have done. And I~ not sure yon gentlemen are not right. Many of the bills passed in this 

House during, this session do not recommend themselves to me as of 

such n. nature that I care to have thein. repeated many times. 

1\Ir. Speaker, we are beyond help in this Congress. All we can hope 

to do is to pass the appropriation bills, and we have a good deal to do 

if we do that. 

1\Ir. WELLER. Will the gentleman permit me to ask him a question? 

:i\Ir. HORR. Yes, sir. 

1\Ir. 'WELLER. Has not the whole difficulty been owing; to the su- perior statesmanship of our leaders? [Laughter.] ~1r. HORR. As the gentleman himself is one of the main leaders on that side of the House I Will ~y that is probably the real trouble. [Renewed laughter.] 

1\fr. WELLER. I am exceedingly glad to have such high encomium 

from the gentleman from Michigan. 

1\Ir. RANDALL. Irow much time is remaining? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Thegentleman fromPennsylvaniahas seven minutes remaining. ~Ir. RANDALL. How much time has the gentleman from ,Maine? 

The SPEltKER pro te1npore. The gentleman from Maine has three 

minutes. - Mr. REED, of Maine. I yielded but four minute.s, and I baYe four 

minutes remaining. 

The SPEAKER pro tempote. The Chair states the facts. The Chair 

did not hear the gentleman from Uaine put any limitation on the gentleman from Michigan, and all the time of the gentleman from Maine 

has been used but three minutes. - 1\Ir. REED, of l\Iaine. But I yielded only four minutes-to the gentleman from Michigan. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The Chair will ask by unanimous con- sent, as it was the Chair's fault and not that of th~ gentleman from 

Maine, that the extra minute be granted to him. 

There was no objection; and it was ordered accordingly. 

Mr. KEIFER. I appeal to the gentleman from Pennsylvania to give me :five minutes. 

Mr. RANDALL. I can not, but I will give you three. 
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· HOUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

ltlr. KEIFER. Mr. Speaker, I favored the amendment of the special day; for I say now that the deliberate purpose of the rules as adopted 

rule when the subject was brought to my attention. I did it not with by the House, and which came from the Committee on Rules with its 

any great hope we were going under this special rule to redeem the nnannnous voice and with no political suspicion as to auy of them, was present House from its difficult situation.. With all the bills reported ·to protect the people of this country against unjust inroads into the 

and on the Calendar and on the Speaker's table. that are important we Treasury; and that is the reaso~ why I feel fum and determined in are likely to do but very lj.ttle. · · standing against any encroachments which would allow the public 

I wish to say I was opposed originally to the adoption of the present . Treasury to be unduly entered by measures for which there is no con- system of rules. I have in every Congress since their adoption :fitvored stitutional warrant. The rules in that respect are a protection, I adsome method bywhich the majority of the House of Representatives mit, becausewe areallbn.thuman. Ifeeliteveryday. " 7e arecoaxed, ~u1d transact the business that was properly brought before it through we are pursued; we are talked to, we are got at in every conceivable 

committ-ees or otherwise. I agreed t-o co-operate with the gentleman honorable manner to induce us to vote money out of the Treasury of 

from 1!1aine in the Forty-seventh Congress in attempting to so amend the United States; and it is well that I andothe~havethis power em- . the .rules as would makethematallpracticalin legislation. I favored bmced within the rules. to protect ourselves from temptation and to 

in this Congress thesame amendment, ·butit has turned out that a rna- save the Treasury of the United States from the unwarranted expendijority of this House is opposed to amending these rules. ture of public money, _[Applause.] 

Notwithstanding. the fact the Honse had it within its power t-o have The SPEAKER J!l'O temp(}re. The time allowed for debate has ex- adopted the amendments reported by the gentleman from M"aine, I pired. The question is upon agreeing to the :report made by the gentle- am willing we should resort to any scheme or device, or whatever you man from Pennsylvania. · · choose to call it, to give gentlemen here the right to legislate for the Mr. HORR. Let it be again reported. 

remainder. I do not expect we will accomplish much under it, but if i.'he SPEAKER pro tempore. Without objectioD: the 1·eport will be we can adopt the ·amendment it Will accomplish that little, at least, again read. · toward effecting the legislation which the Congress ~fthe United States There was no objection, and tbe report was again read. 

is charged with. The SPEAKER pro temp01·e. The question is on agreeing to the re- [Here the hammer fell.] ·port. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. Mr. Speaker, I think it fair and proper I Mr. BELFORD. Can we not have that again reported? It was imshould take my foUl' minutes now; and I desire to take them to make possible to hear it here. 

reply to the suggestion made by the gentleman from Pennsylvania [1\u: Several members objected. 

Ril-nALL). That gentleman has stated to,:this Honse that the pres- The SPEAKER pro ternpore. Objection is made. The question is 

ent system of rules has come down 1:.9. us from former generations. I on the adoption of the report. 

stand here in my place and say that he is mistaken in that statement-. The questioJ! was taken; and upon a division there were-ayes 151, 

Mr. RANDALL. I said in the main. noes 16. · Mr. REED, of Maine. I say to him it is true that a majority of So the report was adopted. . . these rules are the same as they were before he took"hold of them in· ?!ir. RANDALL moved to reconside~· the vote by which the report 

the Forty-sixth Congress, but I say at the same time the whole sys- was adopted; and also moved that the motiop to reconsider be laid on tern of transacting business has been changed and uprooted. We are the table. 

not now living on the system of our ancestors-, unless the gentlemen . The 1atter motion was agreed to. 

from Pennsylvania and Indiana are our ancestors. [Laughter.] I say Mr. RANDALL. I now ask that the rule, as modified, may be we have been " cabined, cribbed, confined," by this present system of printed in fi;lll in the RECORD of t4is d~y's proceedings. 

rules; so _we find omselves to-day in this position. There was no.objection. 

The Forty-sixth Congress did no business because we discussed the The rule, as amended, is as follows: 

rules, the Forty-seventh Congress did no business ])ecause we had the Reso1~ed, That each morning during the remainder of this se sion, immediately 

rules except when we chang~d the rules, and the Forty-eighth Con- aft~r the approval of the .Journal, there shall be set apart one hour for motions 

gress has done no business because the rules have put it in the power to take up and consider such billil or resolutions on any of t-he Calendars of the 

Of ,n, +"-ew men to stop all business of the House. House, or on the Speaker's table, or bills favorably reported from the Calendars 

-'' undisposed of, ns the member ma.J...-ing the motion may designate. And the bills 

Now, I have said these things once or twice befc;>re [laughter], and I or resolutions so designated sliBll be immediately considered, unless objected 

am alad to ep"'"t them fo virtue in this wo· rid ge~~ 0 ot 1 b to by at least ten members . . Tba.t before asking fo.r the objections to the bill or n r ~ ' r 1.0 n n mere Y Y resolution indicated , it shall be in 'order for the debate provided for to be bad and sound statement but by reiteration qf sound· statement. It gets on by thereafter there be no further debate. If the yeas and nays shall be ordered on 

means of men having the idea driven into them that something is wrong. any snch bill or resolution, or any proposed amendment thereto1. and the call of 

EverybOdy in this House knows from the condition of public business the roll shall be commenced beforetheexpir&tionofthesa.id onenour, the same shall be completed before the regular order of business is entered upon: Pro- that something is- wrong. Everybody knows it is a senseless proceed- vided, That while this order remains in force tbeS_P,eak.ersball not entertain any 

ing for a body of three hundred and twenty-fh·e men to sit here for two requests for unanimous consent t-o consider any b1ll or ~lution at any other 

years and be chained as this bod_y of men has _been. I challenge a!!ain tL11e than 4erein provided; but he may entertain such requests to refer billil or ~ resolutions to committees or to dispose of Senate amendments to bills which the gentleman from Pennsylvania to justify such action. have passed the Hou e. 

If he says on his part he do~ not want certain bills to be passed, al- ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

low me to say to him, without meaning any personal offense, it is not 

his measure which is to govern the .affairs of the United States; that Mr: ERM&'lTROUT. I rise to sti.bmit a privileged report from tho 

every Representative on this floor is his equal, is the equal of every Committee on Accounts. 

other member, and that no one of them ought to exercise the veto The SPEAKER pro tempore. Before that the Chair will ask the con- power. And yet under this system of mles the veto power is ·in large sent of the Honse to lay before it certain execn.tiv~ communiCations. 

measure given to every single member. It is not only the gentleman There was no objection. 

from Pennsylvania who exercises it, but the gentleman from Iowa, as REPORT OF LIEUTENANT R.AY-=-POINT BARROW EXPEDITION. 

my friend from Michigan has well said, has won distinction. as a leader The SPEAKER pro tem'Tiore laid before the House a letter from the in this very line of thought and proceeding. [Laughter.] It is just :1.' 

because every single member is allowed a veto power, which the Con- Secretary of War, relative to the publication of 2,QOO additional copies 

stitution only allows to a ~ajority, that r have protested and renew my of Lieutenant Ray's report of the international polar·expedition to Point 

protest. • Barrow, Alaska; which was referred ·to the Committee on Printing, and 

[Here the hammer fell,] ordered to ~e printed. . 

?!ir. RANDALL. Mr: Speaker, the gentleman from Maine has en- IMPROV.El\IENT OF POCOMOKE RIVI<..'R, 1\IARYL.AND. 

deavored to controvert my statement in reference to the fact that these The SPEAKER pro tempore also laid before the House a letter from 

rules had come down from fon:ner generations of legislators. The theSecretary 9fW"ar,transmittingareportfromtheChiefofEngineers 

whole framework, the very principles upon which the rules themselves of a survey of the Pocomoke River, in Maryland; which was referred 

rest and in large degree their policy, have come down to us as I stated; to the Committee on Rivers and Harbors, and ordered to be printed. and-when the gentleman seeks to arouse prejudice in this House against a single member because he stands here and objects under the rule, I PUBLIO BUILDING, CHARLESTON, w. V.A. 

s:ty that that member, no matter who he is, would be controlled by The SPEAKER pro tempore also laid before the House a letter from . the rnles, and is himself utterly powerless if he stood alone and with- the Secreta1-y of the Treasury, submitting an estimate for an additional 

out that constitutional power which is given to one-fifth of this House appropriation to complete the public building at Charleston, w. Va. 

to call the yeas and nays to be entered upon the journals. And.I say The SPEAKER pro tempore. Withoutobjectionthiswill be referred 

further, sir, that this furore which is attempted to be raised against. to the Committee on Appropriations. 

indi·ddual members who are arraigned because as alleged they seek to Mr. TOWNSHEND. I should think that ought to go to the Comobstruct legislation is unjust and unfounded, because a memberwould mittee on Public Buildings and Grounds. · be utterly powerless if he had not one-fifth of the House associated ?!ir. RANDALL. What is· the purport of the communication? 

with him and acting in unison with him to accomplish his object. The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is a letter from the Secretary of the 

This for a moment can not be gainsaid. . Treasury, asking an additional appropriation to complete a public build-

! do not want to sweep aside with the little facetiousness the gentle- in g. man from Maine is so much at home with the rules as they starid t~- Mr. RANDALL. If. it is in pursuance of existing law it wonld go 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1291 

to the Committee on Appropriations, if otherwise, to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. 

The SPEAKE~ pro tempore. The ~air thinks that under the rnle 

this honld-go to the Committee on Appropriations, but will examine 

the paper more carefully. It is, however, perfectly competent for the 

Honse to make any reference of the communication it may deem fit. 

Does the gentleman from Illinois make any motion? 

?.Ir. TOWNSHEND. I do not. 

:Mr. RANDALL. If the proposition relates to an appropriation 

wfthin the limit of existing law it ought ·to go to the Committee on Appropriations; but if it relates to a. prop<Etion for the enlargement 

in the· limit of the appropriation, it should go to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will cause the Clerk to read 

the rule. 

The Clerk read as follows : 

All proposed legislation· shall bet·eferred to the committees named in the pre- ceding rule, as follows: · 

• * * * * * * 20. to the public buildings and occupied or improved grounds of the United 

States, other than appropriations therefor: to the Committee on Public Buildings a11d Grounds. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will .now ·ask the Clerk to 

read the letter of the Secretary of the TreaSnry, which is short. 

:Mr. SNYDER. If in order, I desire to make a motion t-o refer this 

communication to the Committee on AppropriatiQns. 

Mr. STOCKSLAGER. Is there a public building at that point? 

Mr. SNYDER. There is one in course of erection. This is t-o in- crease the appropriation. 

Mr. STOCKSLAGER. I think this should go to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds, and move that reference. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will recognize 'the gentleman 

when the Clerk has read the letter of the Secretary. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

TREASURY DEPARTMENT, OFFICE OF THE SECRET AllY, 

W<Uhington, Felnv,ary3, 1885. 

Sm: I have the honor to state that there will be required for the completion 

of post-office and court-house at Charleston, W.Va.., and for the payment of cer- tain outstanding obligat.ions on account thereof, the sum of $1,1.53.30; which amount I respectfully recommend be included in the sundry ci vii bill now under 

consideration by the Committee on Appropriations. · Respectfully, 

. OHAS. E. COON, Acting Secl"tl.a:nJ. To the SPEAKER of the House of Representalit,es. 

M.r. STOCKSLAGER. I withdraw the motion t-o .refer the commu- nication to the Committee on Public Buil-dings and Grounds. 

The communication was referred to the Committee on Appropriation , and ordered to be printed. · 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. ERMENTROUT. I desire to make a privileged report. I a.m directed by the Committee on Accounts to submit the report which I 

send to the desk. 

The Clerk pt"ocee<ied to read the. report, which related to the question of adjustment of salaries of the disbursing and stationery clerks of 

the Honse. 

?.Ir. STOCKSLAGER (interrupting the reading). Is that in order? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thiltks this is not a privileged report. It will .be returned to the gentleman from Pennsylvania. 

DEPUTY M.AR H.A.LS AND SUPERVISORS OF ELECTIONS. 

?tlr. VAN ALSTYNE. I am instructed by the Committee on Expenditures in the -Department of Jru;tice to report back the Honse resolution submitted by the gentleman from ~uri fMr. DOCKEB.Yl on the 2d instant, and to recommend that it be adopted. The report is a privileged one. I move the previous question on the adoption of the 

resolution: 

The ~lution was read, as follows: 

Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be directed to inform the House of Representatives what has been the total amount of expenses incwred under 

the law providing for the appointment of deputy marshals, chief supervisors, 

and supervisors of elections, and in what States the money has been expended; 

showing the separate amounts expended in each State, and also the accounts for 

such services which remain unadjusted. 

The previous question was ordered. 

Mr. VAN ALSTYNE mQved to reconsider the vote by which the 

previous question was ordered; and also moved that the motion to re- consider be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was ;tgreed to. 

The resolution was adopted. 

Ur. VAN ALSTYNE moved to reconsider the vote by which the 

resolution was adopted; and also moved that the motion t{) reconsider 

be laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

CHINESE IMMIGRATION. 

:Mr. EATON. I desire to make a report. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. Is it a privileged report? 

Mr. EATON. I am directed by the Committee on Foreign Affairs 

to report what ought to be a privileged question. I am not sufficiently 

famil.iarwith the rules to know whether it is or not. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will send it to. the 

Clerk's desk, and the Chair will pass on its character. [After examining the report.] The gentleman from Connecticut submits a privileged 

report. 

The report was read, as follows: 

The Committee on Foreign Affairs, to which was referred the resolution submitted by Mr. 13UDD February 2, calling for information relative to the con- struction given by the Secretary of the Treasury to_the act of July 5,!884, relative to Chinese immigration, has coi1Sidered the same, and believing t'Jle information 

sought to be of great importance, reports the resolution to the House with the 

recommendation that the second paragraph of the preamble be stricken out, 

and, as so amended, it be adopted. 

The resolution was read, as follows: 

"Whereas it is alleged that the Secretary of the Treasury, under date of Jan- uary 14, 1884, issued, as a circular to the collectors of customs, the following reg- ulations and instructions, among others: _ "5. Chinese subjects, not laborers, desiring to come to the United States from 

countries other than China, may do so on production of a certificate correspond- ing to that required by~tion6ofthe act of July 5, 1884., to be issuetl by aCbi- nese diplomatic or consular officer, if there be one at the port of departure, .countersigned by a United States consular officer, or, if there be no stwh Chi- nese officer stationed at such port, on a like certificate to be issued by a United 

States oonsular officer, '' 6. Section 6 of the act of 1884·does not apply to Chinese persons other than 

laborers lawfully in the UnUed States. Such persons are by treaty entitled 'to come and go of thelr own free will and accord,' and wben.they leave the United 

States are entitled to re-enter on any evidence satisfactory to the collector that 

they are not Chinese laborers. 

"For the convenience of ncb persons and of the customs officers and others, 

such persons who may desire to depart from, and return to, the United States, may enter the United States on production of a. certificate corresponding to that 

required by section "6 of the ·act of July 5, 1884, to be issued by the collector of customs of the port of departure, which certificate may be prima facie evidence 

of a right to enter the United States. 

* * * * • * * "8. Ch inesc persons who may be_compelled to t 0 uch at the por~ of tlle United 

State in transit to foreign countries may be permitted to land under the regu- lations of January 23, 1883 (section 5544), so far a~ may be applicable, su:eh per- sons .t.o take passage by the next vessel leaving for their destination or the voy- age of which ·may form pal"t of tlie route necessary to carry them to their destination." · . And whereas, if issued, .such instructions and. regUlations are in violation of 

the act of July 5, 1884., relating to Chinese immigration, and are therefore a prao- tical nullification of an act of Congress by one of the :Executive Departments of 

this Government; and • . · Whereas Congress by the act of July 5, 1884., intended to, and did, by express terms prohibit all Chinese, whether laborers or merchants, former residents_or new arrivals, from entering the United States of Ame.rica without the certificate 

required by such act and i ned by the officers and in the manner therein pro· vided: Therefore., Be it resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury is hereby directed to report to this Hou e, at the earliest possible date, what, if any, regulations and instructions relating to the rights of Chinese"to enter the United States of America have. been issued by the Treasury Department since July 5, 1884.; under what law for 

the regulation or prohibition of the coming o( Chinese to this country such reg- ulations have been issued; and if any instruction has been issued that a United 

States consular officer 'might issu~ the ~rtificate required by the aet of July 5, 

1884, to be issued by a foreign government, or if any other instructions or r.egu- lations such as above set forLb have been issued, to specify under what section 

and clause of any law relating to the rigllts of the Chinese to enter the United 

States tho same are authorized.· 

Mr. EATON. This resolution was unanimously adopted by the 

Committee Qn Foreign Affairs. It is simply-to direct the Secretary· of 

the Treasury to give information to this Honse as to the orders of that 

Department. I think there will" be no objection to it: I move the 

previous ·quesl;ion. 

Mr. SKINNER, of .New York. Is that a pri ~ged report? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thinks it is a privileged re- port. It is a resolution of inquiry, and the reporting of it back under 

the rule is privileged. 

The previous question was ordered. 

Mr- EATON moved to reconsider the vote by which the previoua 

question was ordered; and also moved that the motio~ to reconsider be 

laid on the table. · 

The latter motion was p.greed to. . . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question· is on the amendment 

recommended by the Committee on Foreign Affairs. 

Mr. HOLMAN. . Let the ameudment be reported. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Amend"by striking out the second paragraph of th preamble, as follows: 

"And whereas, if issued. such instructions and reg1lations are in violation of 

the act of July5, 1884., relating to Chineseimmigratio•, and are therefore a prac- tical nullification of an act of Congress by one of the ' uecutive Departm.ents of 

this Government; and 

"Whereas Congress by the act ~f July 5,1884, intenc ed to, and did, by express terms prohibit all Chinese, whether laborers or mer( b.a.nts1 former residents oP new arrivals, from·enterin~ the United States of Arne ica Without the certificate 

required by sucb"act, and tssued by the officers, and p. the manner tberefu pro- vided." · 

The SPEAKE.R pro tempore. The questio~ is on agr~eing to the 

amendment. · The a.inendment w~ agreed to; and the resl •lution as amended was adopted. 

Mr. EATON moved to reconsiderthevote jus taken; and also moved 

that the motion to reconsider be laid .on the tal: le. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

PRINTING OF EDtJ'CATIOX BEl?RT. 

Mr. ROGERS, of New York. I ·rise to make a \Iivileged report. I 
1292 OONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY .5, 

am· instructed· by the Committee on Printing to report back with an amendment the joint resolQtion (H. Res. 320) authorizing the printing 

of. the re)?Ort of the Commissioner of Education for 1883 and 1884. · The joint resolution was read, .as follows: · 

Resolved, d!c., That ofthe report of the Commissioner of Education for 1883 and 

188j there be print-ed 6,000 copies for the use of the Senate, 12,000 copies for the use of the House of Representatives, and 20,000 copies for distl'ibution by the 

Commissioner. 

.. The joint resolution was ordered to be engrossed and read a third 

time; and eeing engrossed, it wa.s accordingly read the third time, and 

passed. 

, Mr. ROGERS, of New York, moved to reconsider thevote by which 

the joint resolution was pa.c;sed; and also moved that the motion toreconsider be laid on the table. 

The latte:r motion was agreed to. 

MESSAGE FROM THE. SENATE .. 

A message from the Senate, by Mr. McCooK, its Secretary, informed 

the House that the Senate had passed with amendments bills of the 

following titles; in which the concmrence of·theHouse was requested: 

A bill (H. R. 2799) to authorize the construction of a bridge across the 1\fississippi River at Memphis, Tenn.; and 

A bill (H. R. 5461) to regulate interstate· commerce .. The Jl!essage also informed the House that the Senate had passed the 

joint resolution (H. Res. 323) for the printing of certain eulogies delivered in Congress upon the late William A. Duncan. 

QUESTIOY OF PRIVILEGE. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. 1\Ir. Speaker, I r~e to a question of privilege. . The SPEAKER pro ternpore. The gentleman will state it. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. The Committee on Rivers and Harbors 

wishes, through me, to call ·attention to some 1:emarks made in yesterday's debate by the gentleman from Maine [:M:r. REED) and by the 

gentleman from New York [Mr. HISCOCK]. . . · I send a copy of the RECORD to the desk with certain passages marked 

which I ask the Clerk to read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

1\lr. REED, of 1\fa.ine. All of these other gentlemen he,ve been making similar 

statements, and that isjustwh~tt I complain of. Lastyeari took a stand against 

the Mississippi River appropri!\tion and I did it upon an indication that I saw here in the House. A proposition was made, a sensible business proposition, 

that we should content ourselves with the prosecution of the work on the two reaches of the river then under process of constr~ction, to see if the plan con- templated· in that work was to be a success. If it :was a success, then. we could go on; if it was not a success, we could suspend operations. · · •. But that business proposition was rejected by 'lln ovet'whelming crowd of votes. That satisfied me that. there were a great many gentle~:pen who were more interested in the expenditure of money than they were in the· navigation 

of the 1Uississippi River. Now-the gentleman from Arkansas comes before the House and re-enforces by facts the suspicion which the conduct of these gent.lemen,.at that time engendered in the minds of thinking men. 

• * * * * * * Mr. HiscoCK. * * * I ask the Committee on Rivers and Harbors if they have investigated the question of the amount of money that has been expended 

for repairs on works that have been done under this plan within the la&t two years? · · · Why have you not inl'ormed the House on that subject? I assert that of the 88,000,000 which have been appropri!lted and expended in this work nearly $2,-

000,000 have been expended m repairs on these mattresses and this revetment work; and yet that fact has been kept from the House, and kept from the conn- try; · This committee, with full power to investigate, with full power to ascer- tain all the facts upon flhis question, 'have brought in this bill and attempted to change the manner of doing this work, claiming we must call this Captain Eads w the helm, and that he has some new plan, some new method, that will give success to this great scheme of public plunder. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Mr. Speaker, in the remarks read by the 

Clerk the deliberate charge is made that the. Committee on Rivers a.nd 

Harbors has practiced concealment of important information from the 

House, in order to put through a job, ''a scheme of public plunder.'' 

The deliberate charge is made,_ with reference to legislation which meets • the approval and has met the indorsement of the Committee on Rivers 

and Harbors, that gentlemen sustaining that legislatibn were far more interested in securing the expenO.iture of the public money than they were in carrying out the solemn pledges and purposes expressed in·t.he 

bill. Now, sir, I intended last night-indeed, r desired immediately 

when these rem..·trks were uttered-to get the :floor, but I did not suc- ceed in C.oing so. I intended to can the attention of the House to these 

gross and unwarranted reflections upon the proceedings of the House 

and of the committee to which I have the honor to belong. This morn-

. ing, at a meeting of our com'lnittee convened for other purposes, I called 

the attention of its members ·to this matter, and fen: that reason I, 

in:::tcad of the chairman of our committee (who had not heard. the' 

remarks when they were made, and who had not read them in the 

RECORD), was requested .by the committee to report to the House its 

proceedings in the premises and to express its sentiments. 

At a full meeting, attended by every membef of the committee, Republican and Democratic, that is in the city, except one, .my friend GeneralBAYNE, from Pennsylvania, itwasunanimouslyand warmlyagreed 

that these remarks should be denounced upon the :fioor of the House as--

Mr. REED, of l\laine. l\lr. Speaker, is this a question of privilege? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is very little disposed to 

rule that it is not a. question of privilege when a committee of the 

House by its own action seeks to bring a matter of this nature to the 

attention of tbe House .. · Mr. HISCOCK. Mr. Speaker, we have been anxious upon this side 

of the House to .have time for discussion. I hope that the gentleman 

ft·om Arkansas [l\lr. BRECKINRIDGE] may be allowed to continue his 

remarks and that we may then have an opportunity to be heard. 

J,Ir. REED, of Maine. I simply d~ire, .Mr. Speaker, to call attention to the point, because ·I do not want this proceeding to go on and 

then when it is finished be cut off from reply. · 

· The SPEAKER pro temp~Jre: The Chair thinks that the gentleman 

from New York [Mr. HIScocK] 'Will have no occasion to complain of 

any want of fair dealing on the part of the Chair. 

Ur. BRECKINRIDGE. I shouldinsistupon the gentlemen having 

ample time. 

Ur. BROWNE, of Indiana. . Well, ~fr. Speaker, I maketh~ point directly that this is not a question of privilege, and I ask the ruling of 

the Chair. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair will ask the Clerk to read 

the rule which applies. 

The Clerk read as follows: RULE IX. 

QUESTION OF PRH-'1LEGE. 

Questions of privilege shall be, first, those affecting the rights of the House collectively,.its safety, dignity, and the integ rity of its proceedings; second, the 

rights, reputation, and conduct of members individually in their representative 

capac;Jity only; and shall havepre.cedence of all other questions, &c. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair does not th:ink the point ·of 

order well taken. The Chair thinks that this is a question o( privilege 

rmder the rule just read. The point of order is therefore overruled. 

The gentleman from Arkansas [.M:r. BRECKINRIDGE] will proceed. 

Mr. BRECKrnRIDQE. The members of the Committee on Rivers 

and Har.bors wish this House to know that they unanimously denounce 

the imputation upon their action contained in the remarks that have 

been read as utterly base and groundless--

Mr. RUNT (sotto voce). · Baseless and groundless. 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE (continuing). Baseless and groundless. I 

would let the word ''base ' ' s.tand if it_ were 'parliamentary, for ~ thing' 

that is groundless is base when it impeaches the character of honorable 

mw. . Ur. Speaker, as for the language of the gentleman from New York [~Ir. HrscocK], I do not wish to dwell upon it or characterize it with 

anything like passion, though it woul~ require terms somewhat pas: 

sionate to express the indignation, that I feel at charges of this character so unwarrantably uttered. The committee has not a. single essential 

fact but what I and others have stated or what are contained in the pub: 

lie records of the country, which are open to the gentleman, and from 

which he has drawn the statements of fact that he has presented. The 

Committee on Rivers and lL'l,rbors brought forward their conclt:Jsions;' 

based upon these serious facts, and they have been called . too radical; 

yet the gentleman complains of our not dealing with them. Those con- clusions were predicated upon the very matters which he complains of as having been concealed from Congress. It is not customary to bring 

into the House all the details of any case or to read in full the thousands of pages of evidence; but, speaking al;! a member of the commit;,_ 

tee, I have myself brought out here what I conceive to be .the most 

s~rtling and striking statistics connected with this subject. Therefore 

the gentleman, being himself supplied not only with these statements: 

but with the public printed records giving all the information that the 

committee has, can find no justification for making the charge of con- cealment for" plunder" that he does make against the committee. 

Sir, I believe it is a just and proper maxim that a good Construction 

should be put upon the actions of men unless a bad construction is un.:. avoidable. These gentlemen seem to reason .about the actions of the~ 

associates from a low plane of suspicion. Even when thoSe-. actions ar~ 

indorsed by their own associates and by overwhelming majo~ties in this 

House, such as are cited by the gentleman from Maine as having been 

the vote U,POn these previous questions ~connection with this matter; 

they are tmwilling to adopt a good construction if it is possible_to adopt a bad one. It is only fair'to say (and they can take it tQtheir ownre:- flection) that the majority of their associates have perhaps as little confidence in them ~dividuallr as they have in the _great body of their 

associates in Congress . Sir, we have no desire to have these ins'ulting and -qnwarranted re.- marks taken from the RECORD. We are willing for them to stand as evidence of the kind of criticism these gentlemen indulge in about the 

aetion of Congress and the action of a committee of this House. We 

are willing to stand upon our record, allowing that and the criticisms 

upon it to go down together for examination and analysis on the part of 

any who take an interest in thiS matter. 

I want to say for the committee that I have been associated with it 

day after day, our labors beginning generally before the meeting of th!s 

House and continuing in solid session until after its adjournnf.wt, thm, 

labor having run through a number of months in the last session of 

CQngress, and in the present it has run.through nearly every week from 

the beginning of the session down to this hour. I never met a body of 
• 

1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· HOUSE. 1293 

men whom I considered purer, more patriotic, or more·worthy of con- · stand before this Honse upon that stateme~t as. a statement proper to 

fidence iri all the motives and purposes dir~ting their action than this be made by an honorable man .fu gentlemen of this House. I believe 

body has shown i~lfto be. Therefore, sir, in it.sname, andasamem- no man here can gainsay it. I believe that the language which I used 

ber of this Congress, and as a gentleman, I resent the insults and sian- is susceptible of no other interpretation than a fair and honest criticism • ders that these gentlemen seek to heap upon their associates. - of the public action of public men taken for public motives; and that 

Mr. REED, of Maine. }r!r. Speak~r, I am particularly pained to I had a right to do. And for the Committee of Rivers and Harbors t~ 

think that the Committee on Rivers and Harbors should net feel that undertake to hold a session and sit in judgment upon gentlemen whom 

they have already a sufficient .affair on their han~ without under- they have forced to crowd into five minutes a gteat discussion it see~s 

ta1..-ing to indict their fellow-members for words spoken in debate. I to me to pass the bounds of all reasonable human endurance. [Laugh,; 

had myself felt it was enough that those gentlemen sat with closed ter.] . doors upon this bill, that they absorbed all the opportunity for discus- Mr. HUNT. The gentleman .from Maine will now allow me to ask 

sion upon it, without giving to themselves in addition a supervisory him a question? 

power over the utterances of gentlemen who have been obliged to con- Mr. RE;ED, of Maine. .Assuredly I will. · dense into five min.utes their views upon very important subjects. Mr. HUNT. What do you mean when you say (and that is wllat I 

I also desire to express my personal sorrow that a gentleman of the wanted to ask the gentleman so as to give 1him an opportunity to ex- standing of the gentleman from Arkansas [Mr. BRECKINRIDGE], whom plain)-what do you mean when you say that Representatives are more until to-day I have always felt to be in character and ability worthy of influenced by a desire to secure the expenditure of money than for the 

the distinguished name that he bears, should in himself exemplify in improvelnent--

his attack upon me precisely the objectionable things which he thinks Mr. REED, of Maine. Ofthenavigationofthe Mississippi River. 

he finds in what I said, but which neither he nor any other member of· Mr. HUNT. Yes; · for the improvement of the navigation of the 

this House can find there. ' Mississippi River. Now, in the connection in which you say it, what 

I hold it to be above all things low and groveling for a member of does that mean? 

this House to stand up in his pla~e and insinuate dishonest personal Mr. REED, of :Maine. You can judge for yourself. [Laughter.] 

motives as having characterized the action of any other member of this 1\Ir. HUNT. The gentleman says I can judge. for myself. I say 

House; and I am the .last man to do it; for my experience in this House that it is improper, incorrect, and absolutely untrue as shown by the 

has satisfied me that if I were to undertake to name every member of record-that it is. an untrue statement made in an improper and nnw hom I had any suspicion of impropriety, I should have exhausted the charitable · spirit. 

list long before I had covered the fingers of one lland. I am a believer 1\Ir. REED, of 1\Iaine. Well, I will simply allow the gentleman-- · in the honesty of purpose ofthe members ofthe House ofRepresenta- 1\Ir. HUNT . . I wish you to e~l:tin it. 

tives. I take no part or stock in any of the flingS made against them 1\'lr. REED, of Maine. I simply allow the remark of the gentleman 

anywhere, either on the floor of this Honse or elsewhere. from Louisiana to pass in conjunction with his manner of saying it. · 

Mr. HUNT. May. I ask the gentleman a question? 1\Ir. HUNT. It will pass, and so will you. (Laughter.] 

Mr. REED, ofl\'Iaine. No, sir; I am nowdiscussingthis ma~rfor 1\Ir. HISCOCK. _l'Ylr. Speaker,somemembersofthe House-Idonot 

m1self, and I beg leave to be allowed to conclude without interruption. say how many-in previous· sessions when this subject of the improveMr. HUNT again rose. · ment of the Mississippi River has been up have asserted upon the floor 

1\Ir. REED, of Maine. I insist that I shall not be interrupted. that the great object of that work was to improve the alluvial land Oil . The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is the right of the gentleman from the banks of the Mississippi River. They have asserted that this grea~ 

Maine to proceed without interruption. riv~r could not be chained by these engineers. They have asserted that 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE rose. this plan of improvement which was sent to Congress, and which Con~ 

Mr. REED, of 1\Iaine. I decline to be inJ;errupted, except by the gen- gress has repeatedly indorsed, would be a failure. Sir, I happened t~ 

tleman from Arkansas. be one of that number. ·I never had any confidence in the scheme~ 

1\Ir. BRECKINRIDGE. I wish to say that the rema1·ks which the never had ·confidence in the. project. But :I will withdraw the word 

gentleman has just uttered are of a most generous and considerate ''scheme" lest it may be deemed objectionable. · 

nature; but I think he will admit-- . A wmmittee of this House, of which the Speaker of this House was · llfr. ~EED, of Maine. Now, the gentleman must permit me to one, and he and theothermembersoftha.t committee, whowereatleast 

finish. honorable gentlemen, brought in a report, after full investigation, suD= 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. One moment, if the gentleman pleases. stantially agreeing with the views of those members who had opposed 

l!Ir. REED, of 1\Iaine. Very well. these appropriations or this plan of expenditure. They were substan.:: 

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I think the gentleman _must admit that tially laughed down when that report was presented. The appropri~ 

his remarks of yesterday, whether rightly expressing his intent or not, tions went on, but finallytimehasvindicated them. We waited until 

are not open to any other construction than that he did reflect upon yesterday for the distinguished gentleman from Arkansas, in his place 

the purposes and motives of gentl~men engaged in legislation in this on this floor, to advertise to the country, upon his responsibility as .a House. I can not conceive it to be honorable for gentlemen to medi- member of the Honse, that all this work had been a failure and noth:. 

tat-e a raid qn the Treasury under the guise and expressed purpose of ing had been accomplished by it. 

legitimate ends. The disclaimer the gentleman now makes is entirely And, Mr. Speaker, in this connection I will read the language used 

satisfactory to the committee as well as myself. by the honorable gentleman from Arkansas [Mr. BRECKThTRIDGE]: 

-}rlr. REED, <;>f Maine. I understand the gentleman's point, and I Therefore I have agreed with those wh~ have urged that this incubus of memust be allowed now to go on. · diocrity of untrair;ted engineering talent in this line be taken off that river, or Mr. BRECKINRIDG E. This shall. not come out, of the gentleman's in some way subordinated, and it be put back to the original plan adopted by 

time if I have any voice in the matter. I_ only wish to add that if the Congress which Captain Eads formulated. • 

language just used by the gentleman expresses his sentiment in regard This language of his follows the language I will now quote: 

to the honorable purposes of the great majority of this House whom he .And theirc&lculations are, in round numbers, that the system will cost 51.50,000 

undertook yesterday to criticise, then it is all tha,t should b"e l'equired a mile, and there are nearly a thousand miles of the Mississippi River in this 

between gentlemen, and I cheerfully withdraw ·an that applies to him. condition, and it has two sides to it, and one side is always caving in where the other is forming a bar; you have, I say, a thousand miles at $150,000 a mile, mak1\Ir. REED, of Maine. Now I wish to go on further, in order that ing an aggregate of 8150,000,000; and yet they can not point us to any experi- I may be distinctly understood by the House. . ment in this departure from the original plan and from reason showing that it 

Mr. HUNT. That is why I wished to ask the gentleman a question. will stand twelve n;tonths after a single rise. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. I will allow the gentleman to ask his ques- Now, sir, I know, and every gentleman will know if he will take the 

tion after I have finished. pains to examine the record, that there has never been any change in 

Mr. HUNT. Let me do it now. . the original plan . . Up to the spring of 1884 or the fall of 1883, capt~ 

l\1r. REED, of Maine. The gentleman is destroying the continuity J. B. Eads, in his sworn testimony, has in«;;orsed the work of the Mis,-

of my discourse. · sissippi River Commission. Upto that period oftimeithadhisfnllapMr. HUNT. · I do not mean to do that. proval. 

Mr. REED, of Maine. I desire to say further, I hold it is the right Mr. SPRINGER. I rise to a point of order. I desire this discussion 

of every member ofthisHqusetocriticisethemotives ofot~er members, shall be confined to the questionofprivil~e, while. the gentleman from 

provided that criticism is of public motives. If I see a man on the New York is now discussing the merits of the question. 

floor of this House apparently going for one object and I think he is Mr. HISCOCK. I am coming to the question of privilege. 

going for another, and I think if this Honse understands that to be the The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from New York is pereffect it will change their views and opinions, I hold it to be right and fectly familiar with the requirements of the rule in that regaTil, and 

proper for IDE? in the course of debate to express my views on that the Chair hopes he will observe them. 

subject. Mr. IDSOOCK. I am coming mo-re directly to the point made by 

Now, iv. -the rem¥ks which are complained of I have connected no the gentleman from .Arkansas [:Ur. BRECKINRIDGE], but it seemed to man with any charge of dishonest conduct whatever. I have simply be necessary I should state this history and these facts preceding what 

said, in substance, that raised in my mind the belief gentlemen were more I am about to say in reply to the strictures of the gentleman.from Arinterested in the expenditure of money in their section than they ~ere kansas. 

in true measures for the navigation of the Mississippi River. .And I We have now before us the recommendations of the Committee on 
• / 

1294 CONGRESSIONAL ·REOORD-IfOUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

Rivers and Harbors. Iund,e:rsta.ndit, interpreted by the langnageofthe 

gentleman from Arkansas, proposes an entire change in the plan for the 

improvement of the Mississippi River (the bill d~ not clearly point 

· "t out), and they come in here with this recommendation, and they 

have not told us wherein the old plan, if there was an old plan which 

has been departed from-'-they have not told us wherein there was a failure, but they compel·us to grope in the dark for the facts the gentle- man from Arkansas has asserted, in ·idiously, I am almost· justified in 

saying; they have formulated a new plan, and he admits he had and 

withheld this information as to the destruction of the works on the 

Mississippi River. · 

I do not stand here, sir, to make any charge of impropriety against 

the Committee on Rivers and Harbors of this House. I will throw 

oveP them the mantle of charity, and I believe that "only charity can 

rover their omission in this respect. If that is unparliamentary, 1\fr. 

Speaker, I will withdraw it. 

:J3ut when they come in here with a bill, and when a member of that 

committee charges that this commission which is now conducting the 

work is an incubus upon the public service, when I know and he must 

know if he ha.s examined the record that all that has been done has 

been done with the .mncurrence of this model engineer who is paraded 

before Congress and the country to take ch'l:l.rgeof_the public works-I 

say when the bill comes in and he brings these charges it seems to me 

it was the duty of the Committee on Rivers and Harbors not only to 

tell us wherein there had been a departure from the original plans, but 

to tell us also where and what are the amount of the works that had 

given way, and what amowit of money had been required for the.repair of these works. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I rise to a question of order. 

The SPEAKER pro tmnpore. The gentleman will state it . 

.1\:lr. SPRINGER. It is now nearly 2 o'clock; we have taken up a considerable part of an hour_ or more with this question of privilege. 

I make the point now that it is delaying measures of public legisla\ion, 

and that the gentleman from New York is not confining himself to any · 

question ofprivilege. . · The SPEAKER pro t.empore. The Chair hardly thinks the gentleman 

from New YoTk is confining himsel.(within the strictlimits of the rule 

to a question of privilege. . . Mr. IDSCOCK. I have been arraigned by the gentleman from Arkansas by the direction of the Committee on Ri>ers and Harbors for 

having made a charge against his committee which wa.s unwarrantable. I certainly did not intend to impugn the honor of any individual 

member of that committee . .Mr. SPRINGER. That is sufficient; let us g9 on now with the public business. · . 

Mr. HISCOCK. I did not intend to impugn the honor of the com- mittee acting in its ('.apacit.y as -a committee. I can .only defend myself 

from the charge the gentleman has brought against me by going into 

the history ofthis Mississippi River .improvement to some extent, and by , calling the attention of the House ·to the fact that the foundation upon 

-_which they propose to change this p1an, and the facts upon which they 

propose t-o put Captain Eads at the helm, have been kept out of the 

House and from the country, and that we have no information upon 

that. point. He says everything is· spread on the recor~. Are we, I 

ask you, 1\fr. Speaker, to grope through a report to find a letter here or an 

expression there that may possibly point om way in making an investigation of a vexed question of this kind? 'Vhen a great radical change 

is m:ideor sought to be made, and when the purpose and object of that 

change is withheld from the How;e, ib is the right and duty of every 

member to criticise it. · Mr. WILLIS. Mr. Speaker, I must raise the question of order. I 

submit to the gentleman fr:om New York himself that the wholequestion tlu'l.t has been sprung has been entirely covered by the remarks 

already made. . Ur. BOUTELLE. The gentleman himself ought to be the best judge of~ . The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The Chair has already intimated tha~ 

it was hardly of opinion that the gentleman from New York was speaking to the question o£ privilege. The Chair thinks that now, however, 

the gentleman is referring t-o the question that has been raised., and will 

proceed in order. 

1\fr. HISCOCK. Why is it that the gentleman from Arkansas has 

arraigned me and the distinguished gentleman from Maine on this subject, and the chairman of his committee now seeks to hush us down? 

Is that unparliamentary? l'tlay I be called to account for that expression? Theniwithiirawitandapologize. [Laughter.] 1\lr.Speaker, 

they invited this discussion. It has been brought in here as~ question 

of privilege, because I made the assertion·on yesterday that Captain 

Eads, as the pet of this committee-is that objectionable ?-the pet of 

this committee is sought to be placed over all the internal improvements of this great country. 

Now, sir, I have but little moretosayonthisquestion. I had hoped 

that this subject might be fully ventilated . . ! had hoped that I might 

have time when the bill was under general debate to say some things 

that I have been compelled to say briefly to-day. I say to this com- mittee who have brought in this proposition that opened the discussion 

of this question that I sh~ll make no charge against it but what I may 

establish by the proofs and the record; and if from these proofs ·and 

factS I am justified in drawing the inference that it has suppressed a part of the facts bearing upon this question, -or I will not say suppreSsed them, btrli that your committee has not fully advertised to the 

House all of the facts in its passession ~d all of the facts in the possession of :the gentleman from Arkansas, I shall continue to assault the 

committee,. I shall continue to make the same expressions that I have 

heretofore made, and I shall let the House and the country draw ita 

own inferences whether it has dealt ~irly with this subject or not. 

[Applause on the Republican side.] 

· 1\Ir. SPRINGER. Now wo~d i~ be in order to demand the regular 

order? · 

Mr. BAYNE, I want to say one word. I shall not occupy much 

time. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I did not know that the gentlell:Uln from Pennsylvania.[Mr. BAYNE] was involved in this question. 

Mr. BLANCHARD. I call for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. HAMMOND). This is the regular 

order. A question of privilege is under debate. 

:Mr. HISCOCK. I believe I bave·some time, an~ I desire to ask the 

gentleman fr«;)m Pennsylvania [b!r. BAYNE] if he united in the direction to the gentleman from Arkansas [Mr. BRECKTh-mDGE] that the 

gentleman from Maine and myself should be arraigned on this floor for 

the statement we made? · 

Mr. BRECKli.'\ffiiDGE. The. gep.tleman knoivs very well ·! stated 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania was absent. 

Mr. HISCOCK. Ob. ! he was absent. 

1\fr. BRECKINRIDGE. I stated that, and the gentlem~n knows it. 

Mr. illSCOCK. Well, I will supplement the gentleman's remark by 

saying this: I ought to have know:n it, because I kil.ow very well that 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania would never have lent himself to 

any such scheme or any such p.roject. 

Mr. BAYNE. I have but a word to say. I am a member of the 

Committee on Rivers and Harbo~, and I beg to say the action. of that 

committee so far as I know and believe has been in every sense honor-; 

able and upright. I do not believe any member of that committee 

through any pe1wnal motive or any motive outside of the public interest has done anything to influence the actions and deliberations of 

that committee. We have radically differed in the committee as tO 

appropriations for certain streams, and we have differed.here on the 

floor. , 

The gentleman from Maine [Mr, R.E]\:D] ably critiCised, as he always 

does, various propositions in this bill. The gentleman from New York 

[1\fr. HiscocK] ably criticised them; and· other gentlemen on this :Boor 

have done so. .And it was their right to do .so. I am one of those 

who believe in giving the harqest knocks that lie within the· power of 

the human intellect in debate on any matter that -comes before Cot).-

gress for consideration. I have no dread of the criticisms of any gentleman; and if the -criticisms of any gentleman point out to· me that the 

measure or proposition is wrong, I am willing to acquiesce in the suggestions he may make. I think that _is the only way of arriving at 

the truth and securing the best possible legislation. 

I submit, l'tfr. Speaker, that nothing that has been said here has been 

in the nature of a person.aJ: affront or il!lputation on the honor of any 

gentleman in the House. I did not so regard it. Although a member 

of the Committee on Riv:e.rs and Harbors, and although much criti.! 

cism has been made on the action of that committee, I took nothing to 

myself as imputing to me personal dishonor or any motives other than . those which should control my action as a member of the House. I for 

one believe in the frankest, fullest, freest criticism of all the proposi.: 

tions that may come before Congress; and I shall not feel offended by 

anything that any gentleman may say respecting any one of these propositions either in the river and harbor bill or any other bill. 

There is one thing at least that can be said and should be said in fay or 

of the Committee on Ri>ers and Harbors. It has been repeatedly said 

here that the doorsofthatcommitteewereclosedagainstmemben;ofthe 

HotlBe. That is true. But why were they. closed? Simply because it was absolutely necessary that they should be, if a river and harbor bill 

should be prepared for the consideration of this Congress. If the mem- bers of the House and if delegations from the various States had been 

admitted to that committee to make thei.l: statements no bill could 

have been matured by the committee in time to present it to the House: 

The committee sat from 11 o'clock in the forenoon until about 5 in the 

afternoon every day except 'Sundays since the recess of CongJ:ess, and a 

good deal of'the time before that. They oecupied that-time most industriously in preparing this bill, preparing it with such care and deliberation and thought as they could give to it. You have the result 

of' that deliberation and that thought. There are propositions in that 

bill to which I never can consent. Yet what we did we were compelled 

to do under the circumstances, if you were t-o obtain a river and harbor 

bill at all. The fault does not lie with the Committee on Rivers and 

Harbors for excluding delegations from different States and for excluding members of Congress from coming before them and making their 

statements, but it is attributable to. the short time we bad, and to no other cause. Therefore I say, although this criticism is perhaps unfair, 
• 

1885. OONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1295 

it is a criticism I donotobjectto having been made,·becauseit simply indicat-es and enfortesthe argument that gentlemen on the floor of the House 

should be given as much opportunity as can be given to them to _discuss 

this bill when they cotild not have a hearing before the committee. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

1\Ir. SPRINGER. I demand the regular order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair, if there be no objection, 

will lay before the House some requests affecting the personal convenience of members. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Ifthatwillnot take uptime or require a roll-call 

I shall make no objection. · 

'LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

By unanimous consent, leave of absence was gran~ as follows: 

To Mr. CRAIG, for the day, on account ofsic~ess; and 

To Mr. JoHNS. WISE, for ene week from to-morrow. 

WITHDRAWAL OF PAPERS. 

On motion of Mr. WAIT, by unanimous consent leave was granted 

to withdraw from the files of the House ~he papers in the case of Amos 

Clift, th~e being no adverse report thereon. 

ORDER' OF BUSINESS. 

Mr. YOUNG. Before, the h~ur is called, I ask to call up the bill (H. 

R. 2799)in order to move that the Ho~se concur in the Senate amendments. . , The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The Clerk will read the title of the bill~ 

The Clerk read as follows: 

A bill (H. R. ~799) to authorize the construction of a. bridge across the Mississippi River at :Memphis, Tenn. · 

~ir. GIBSON. 1\:Ir. Speaker, I shall be compelled to object. A bridge across the Mississippi River is so important a matter that we ought not 

to pass that bill without seeing the amendments. · Mr. RANDALL. Mr. Speaker; I did not ~ean to make the objection, 

but now that some one else has made it, I desire to a.Sk whether the 

operation of the new role does not prevent the Chair from entertaining 

requests for unanimous ~nsent. 

The SPEAKER pro telnpore. The Chair does not think that it does. 

The Chair will have the proviso in the rule read which states that for 

purposes of reference unanimous consent may be given. 

Mr. GIBSON. Let us hear the amendment, Mr: Speaker. 

The SPEAKER pro telnpore. The Chair will first have the proviso 

in the rule read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Provided, That while this order i·emains in force the Spea er shall n·ot enter~ tain a.ny requests for unanimous consent to consider any.bill or resolution at any other time than as herein provided; but he may entertain such requests to refer such bills or resolutions to committees, or to dispose of Senate amend- ments to bills which have.passed the House. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. That was the ground upon which the 

Chair held that the request might be entertained. ~ 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I call for the regular order. 

Mr. SPRINGER. I withdraw my call for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The call is renewed by the gentleman nom Kentucky [Mr. WHITE]. Under .the rule, the hour will ·begin 

at a quarter past 2 o'clock. 

Mr. HOLMAN. Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of order. 

The SPEAKER pro te-mpore. The gentleman will state his question 

of order. 

Mr. HOLMAN. The hour set apart for this purpose is very clearly 

designated in the J;Ule, which provides that each morning during the 

remainder of this session immediately after the approval of the Journal an hour shall be devoted to a particular branch of business. The proviso does not modify that at all, except as follows : 

That while this order remains in force the Spea.ker shall not entertain any re- 9.uests for unanimous consent to consider any bill or resolution at any other 

time than is herein provided, but he may enterta.in such requests to refer bills or resolutions to committees or to dispose of Senate amendments·to bills which 

have passed the House. . · . 

Now, 84', I submit that the hour immediately after the approval of 

the J ou.rnal· being set apart for the consideration of a certain class of measures whicli are pointed out, no other hour can be consumed in that 

business unless that hour, or a portion o.f it, shall have been consumed 

in conformity with the provisions contained ln. the proviso to the rule. ,The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has no difficulty in reach- ·ing the conclusion that the gentleman's point of order is not well taken. 

The Chair-- . 1tir. WARNER, of Oh'io. ~Ir. Speaker--

The SP~ pro ~mpore. The Chair is now endeavoring to an- swer the gentleman from Indiana upon the point of order which he has 

made. 

Mr. WARNER,· of Ohio. It is on the point of order that I wish to 

be heard a moment. · 

The SPEAKER pro tw.porc. On that point of order? 

Mr. 'VARNER, .of Ohio. On that point o£· order. I desire to be 

heard for a moment. 

The SPEAKEl.?. pro tempore. The Chair will hear the gentleman. with great pleasure. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I simply wish to add a word to what has 

been said by the gentleman from Indiana. The hour set apart by the 

rule is a distinct portion of time, to wit, the hour following ~he a~ 

proval of the Journal, and is notanhour floating around in the House 

and following any other business; and my point is that no other portion 

of time except that specific portion named·in the special order can be 

appropriated to this business under the rule. It is not at all like the 

morning hour .. Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Speaker--

Tke SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair does not think it necessary 

to hear further discussion upon the point of order. The Chair very 

fu\,nkly avows that its opinion is taken. 

1\fr. SPRINGER. I was going to second the opinion oftheChaii. 

The SPEAKER pro te~npore. The Chair is not at all surprised to 

:find the gentleman from Illinois concurring iii its opinion. [Laugh· 

ter.J . · Mr. SPRINGER. We have the morning hour fixed at a certain time, 

and yet in practice we have sometimes had it at about 12 o'.clock at 

night; and I think that if the morning hour can vary its place in that 

way this hour may do lik~wise. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chafr was going to ~mggest, in re, 

ply to the point of order made by the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. 

HoLMAN], that under the rule the morning hour comes at a stated time 

in the day, yet frequently it comes twenty-four hours after the time 

when it would be due by the clock. This new rule declares that immediately after the approval of the Journal an hour shall be set apart 

for the calling up of bills and resolutipnssubject to consideration under 

the role. But a rule of the House, which is imperative, declares that 

questions of personal .privilege, or privileged reports, or privileged quest~ns shall take prec~ence of all other questions, and that their 

consideration, and the. time consumed therein, shall not be taken ac~ 

count of by the Chair or by the House. The Chair has no arbitrary 

power to deny the right of the House to state arid w be heard upon its 

privileged reports, its questions of privilege, and its privileged ques- . tions. The Chair therefore overrules tlre point of order made by the 

gentleman from Indiana [Mr. HoLMAN], and holds that nothing has 

occurred since the reading of the Journal but the a~ptance and en- tertaining of a privileged report, or the consideration of a question of 

privilege, or a. prixtleged question. The hour, therefore, begins at 

twenty-two minuteS ·past 2 o'clock, and the Chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas [Ur. JoNES]. 

PUBLIC B~DING, TYL~, TEX. 

Mr. JONES, of Texas. I move to call up the bUl (H. R. 5674) for the 

erection of a public building in the cityofTyler, in the State of Texas. 

The bill was read, as follows: · 

Be it enacted, etc., That the Secreta.ry of the T_reasury be, and he is hereby, au- thorized and directed to purchase a site for, and cause to be erected thereon. a suitable building, with fire-proof vaults therein, for the accommoda.tion of the 

United States courts, post-office, and internal-revenue and other Government 

offices, at the city of Tyler, in the State of Texa.s. The plans, specifications, and 

full estimates for said building shall be previously made and approved according to law, and shall not exceed for the site and building complete the sum of 

$50,000: PrO'!J"ided; That the site shall leave the building unexposed to danger from 

fire in adjacent buildings by an open space of not less than forty feet, including streets and alleys; and no money appropria.ted for this purpose shall be ava.ij.a- ble until a valid title to the site for said building shall be vested.in the United 

States, nor until the State of Texas shall have ceded to the United States exclusive jurisdiction over the same, during the time the United States shall be or re- main t.be owner thereof, for a.ll J?u.rposes.except the administration of the criminal 

laws of said State and the semce of civil process therein. 

Mr. JONES, of Texas. Mr. Speaker-.- The SPEAKER pro tempore. U"nder the rule as- modified by the ac- tion of -the House this morning the report may be read and debate had 

before objections are called for. ·The gentleman from Texas is recognized to discuss this bill for five minutes. · Mr. JONES, of Texas. Mr. Spea.ker, in March, 1851, thirty-fouryears 

ago, Tyler, in the State of Texas, was designated as.oneofthe placesat 

which the Federal courts should meet. Since that time the district and 

circuit courts have met there annually, except fur two or three years 

during the '' unpleasantness.'' Several thousand cases have been con.- sidered in those courts.. .Some of the largest cases, involving perhapS more property than has ·been involved in suitB from any other court,' 

have come up from those courts to the Supreme Court of the United 

States, .leaving there great piles of records which are valuable as muni.: 

menta of title to thousands of acres .of land. Citizens of nearly every 

State in the Union are interested in the preservation of those records! 

Tyler is a little city, but is growing in pop~tion rapidly. Not only 

is it th~ place of meeting of the Federal coUrts, but it is one of the places 

where; under·the law, the courts of last resort in Texas meet. It haS 

one'of the best libraries in the Southwest, There are three rnilroads 

running to and from it, making it very a,ccessible. There are two large machine-shops there, employing hundreds of hands. · Tyler is the geographical center of East Texas, and is the center of 

the wealth .and enterprise of that portion of the State. In the courts 

held there the business of seventeen. or eighteen counties is transacted.t 

The post-pffiee there will soon be made a second-class ·office. This 

postal business has, to be provided for. . · : · •We ask fox an appropriation of ohly $50,000 for a court-house and 
1296 CONGRESSIONAL· RECORD--HOUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

post-office building. If any objection can be made to this J;lill it ·is in 

the faet that we ask for so little. But in reply to an objection of that 

sort I would state that building material of the very best quality-stone, 

brick, and timber-is convenient and cheap. We are only ambitious 

to secure the erection of a convenient and safe public building, 11ot to 

build a large and imposing ·ediftce. . Mr. WEAVER. Can the gentleman state precisely the .amount of 

business at the post-office there? 

Mr. JONES, of Texas. I can not; but it is very large. The office 

will shortly be.made -a second-class office. I think the pay of the postmaster is about $1,900. 

Mr. WELLER. I would like to ask the gentleman a question. If 

this bill passes~ he willing the appr9priation should be made in standard silver dollars? 

Mr. JONES, of Texas, Oh, yes; perfectly willing. That is the sort 

of money we like. . It is legal tender with· us. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The time of the gentleman from Texas 

[}1r. J OYES] has expired. Under the rule 1i ve minutes are now allowed 

for debate in opposition to the bill. _ 1\fr. WARNER, of Ohio. I desire only tQ ask the gentleman from 

Texas a question or two. What is the value of the best business building-I mean for private business-in the town' or city of Tyler? 

Mr. JONES, of Texas. The value of the county court-house, I suppose, would be $60,000. There is a hotel there that has cost fifty or sixty thousand dollars. The b~t public buildings in the State are located there. · Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. Wh::\t is the population? 

Mr. JONES, of Texas. It is abqut 9,000 and is rap_idly increasing. 

Three hundr~d public and private buildings have been erected there 

during the last year, I am infonned. As I have already stated, there are two large machine-shops there; and ·the place has large railroad 

facilities. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. I think the report had better be read . . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Ohio, who has 

been recognize~ by the Chair as controlling the time in opposition to 

the bill, dema,nds the reading of the report. It will be read .in his time. 

The report (by Mr. YouNG) was read, as follows: 

The Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. 1568) providing for the erection of a public building at Tyler, Tex., to be used by the United States Government as a court-house and for a post-office and other <klvernment offices, submit the following report: - The committee find that the city of Tyler contains a population of 7,000 inhab- itants and is rapidly increasing in population. It is near the geogrt!J)bical cen- ter' of Eastern Texas and th~ center of the populous count-ies of Ea8lern Texas. It is very accessible, having ihree railroads passing through it, running in differ- ent directions through the State and the_counties whose business is transacted in the Ui1ited States courts at Tyler, ma)dngthedistrictcompa.ctandevery part of it easily reached by the officers of the courts with the least possible expenses to litigants, and assuring the, greatest celerity in the dispatch of business. In February, 1857, Tylerwasdesignated bya.ctorCongressasoneoftheplaces 

in Texas for the sittings of United States circuit and district courts, and said courts have been held there ever since. A statement of ihe business in the United States courts held at Tyler shows a total num.ber of causes filed from Januaty 1, 1866, to date to be 4.,536. 1 The business transactions in the posl:roffice for the year 1883 were as follows: 

Value of stamps and stamped envelopes sold...................................... $5,558 74 Amount collected for box-rent.................................................... .......... W 05 

6,385 79 Number of. money-orders issued..................................... ................... 5, 003 Amount received for money-;orders issued .......................................... $70, 996 64 Number of money-orderspa1d.............................................................. 2,108 Amount money-orders paid ............................................................. , .... $45,689 91 Number of postal notes issued September 3 to December 3J.o, 1883........ 438 

· There is no building at Tyler owned by the United States. The United States circuit and district courts are held regularly there, but in unsafe and unsuitable rooms, as they are liable to be burned, together with the records, and the rooms are not conveniently arranged, for the use of which the United States pays an- nually about Sl,OOO. · ' The post-office is kept in an unsuitable building, which affords no protection from. loss in case of fire. The annual rent paid for post-office is $100. . The courts of last resort of the State of Texas meet at Tyler, and have met there annually since 1851, which are supplied with an extensive and valuable library by the State. . • Tyler is healthy, not S!lbject to epidemics, with a pure atmosphere, and good, J>ure free-stone water. The principal machine-shops of the Texas and Saint Louis Railroad are located there, and the mackine-shops of the Kansas and Gulf Shore Line Railroad are also located there. , There is an abundance of the best building material, both of stone, brick, and lumber, convenient to Tyler. The commercial and manufacturing interests of Tyler are flourishing and im- proving. 

Your committee therefore consider favorably the proposition for the erection of a public building for the use of the United States courts arid posl:roffice at Tyler, Tex., but, in lieu of the bill referred to them, recommend for passage a. substitute [H. R. 56741, which more clearly sets forth, in their opini9n, the terms and conditions on which the appropriation should be made. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The. time for debate on this bill has 

expired. Is there objection to its consideration? The Chair hears none, 

and the bill is before the House. 

Mr. WELLER. I move to amend by adding to the bill the following: 

This appropriation shall be made and paid in standard silver dollars only. 

The amendment was not agreed to, there being 1 vote in the affirmative-noes not counted. 

The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time; and being 

engrossed, it was accordingly read the third time, and passed. . Mr. JONES, of Texas, moved to reconsider the ~ote. by which the 

bill was passed; and also moved that the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. 

The latter .motion was agreM to. 

PUBLIC BUILDING, TROY, N. Y. 

1\Ir. BURLEIGH. I call up for consideration at this time the bill 

(H. R. 1013) for the erection of a public building at Troy, N. Y. 

The bill was read, as follows: · 

Be it enacted, &c., That the Secretary of the Treasury be, and he is hereby nu- thorized and directed to purchase a site for, and cause to be erected ther~oo, a suitable building, with fire-proof vaults therein, for the accommodation of the posl:roffice, internal-revenue offices, United States courts, and other <klvernment offices, at the city of Troy, . Y. The plans, specifications, and full estimates for said building shall be previously made and approved aecording to law, and shall not exceed fo;r the site and building complete the-sum of$250 000: .ProfJided, That the site shall leave the building unexposed to danger from tire in adjacent 

buildings by nn open space of notless than forty feet, including streets and allels; and no money:appropriated for this purpose shall be available until a valid tttle to the site for said building shall be vested in the United States, nor until the State of New York shall have ceded to the United States exclusive jurisdiction over the same during the time the United States shall be or remain the owners thereof, for ali purposes except the ·administration of the criminal laws of said State and the service of civil process therein .. 

Ur. BURLEIGH. . Mr. Speaker, I wish this bill to pass simply on its merits, for I consider it in every sense a meritorious meastrre. Troy 

is one of the largest and most imt5ortant business points in N oJ;thern 

New York. The ;report of the committee will be found to cover the 

whole ground, and I do not desire to take the time of the House in any 

furtht;lr presentation of the facts and arguments in the case, and sineerely hope it lnay receive favorable consideration. I ask th~ report of 

the committee be read. 

The report (by Mr. \VEMPLE) was read, as follows: 

The Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds, to whom was referred the bill (H. R. ~01.3) providing for the erection of a public building in the city of Troy, N.Y., make the following report: The committee have had tb.e same under careful and mature consideration. The city of Troy is one of the oldest and most flourishing manufacturing cities in the State of New York. It is at the head of steamboat navigation on the Hudson River, and is one hundred and sixty miles from the city of New York. fts population receivin(; mail at the ~oy post-office is 73,500; and an order has ·Just. been issued extending the free-delivery system of Troy to 'Vest Troy, which will make an additional population of 12,500: total, 86,000. The rent paid for the posl:roffice in Troy, with very poor accommodations, per annum, is $2,875; the rent paid for the collector's office in Troy is $550,J. tbe rent 'paid for the United States district attorney's office is $237-a total of ~.662. 

. The number of persons employed in the Troy post-office is thirty-five, not in- cluding those apportioned for the West Troy deliYery. Lansingburg, Green Isl~md, and Stow's Hill are all stations of the Troy pos~ffice 

STATISTICS. 

Receipts for the year 18831'rom stamps, postal ca.rds1 stamped envelE~E!!'s~~ .~~~-~~ .. ~~·::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::~::::::::::::::::::::::.~::::::::::::: 81~; ~ ~ 

Net.income ........................................................ : ...... :................. 58,531 03 

MONEY-ORDER BUSTh"ESS. 

Receipts ............................................................ :.................................. 190,986 25 

Payments............................................................................................. 233,134 11 

:llAIL :~lATTER, 

." R~gistere~ letters received for delivery and received and dispatch~d 

m trans1t ..................... : ........... ........................................................ . Letters delivered by carriers ................................................ 2, 259, 355 Postal cards delivered by carriers ....... :............................... 505,611 

Drop letters delivered by carriers........................................ 408, 4.89 Drop postal cards delivered by ca.Triers............................... 243,317 Ne~spapers delivere~ by carriers .. ~ ........... , ........................ 1, 177,794 

RegiStered letters delivered by carriers............................... 6, 6'1:1 Letters, postal cards, l)nd newspapers collected from street letter-boxes ..................................... :····: ......................... , .... 2,457, 978 

_55,902 

Total number ofpie.ces handled by cinriers ............. -............... 7,059,171 Delivered through lock-boxes and window delivery......................... 638,768 

Letters, postal cards, and second, third, and fo\ll'th class matter mailed at Troy .. .. . . . ..... ... ...... .. ....... .. .......... .. ............. ...... .......... ..... ....... ........ 5, 7i1, ~8 

Letters and newspapers received in transit and dispatched.............. 2, 521,750 

Total ................................... :....................................................... lG, ~17, 4.69 

The United States internal-revenue office, fifteenth district, is in Troy. This district consists of the territory embraced in. the counties of Olliiton, Essex, 

Warren, WashjngtQn Rensselaer, Columbia, Dutchess, Putnam, and Westches- ter. The collections for the current year will exceed $1,000,000. The number of employes is eighteen. · The office of the United States district attorney is located a.t Troy, The number of offices occupying <klvernment buildings in the Unit-ed States is seventy-one. Of this number there are but twenty-five whose gross receipts 

annually are as large as the gross receipts of the Troy office. Of this number also there are eight whose aggregate receipts annually are not equal to tbo annual receipts of the Troy office. . 

s!l.fthe whole number of Government post-office bn!-ldings New York laos but 

The leading ihdustries of the city of Troy are as follows: 

mON DiDUSTRY, 

Number of persons employed .................................... :......................... 4,000 

Amount of wages paid annually ............. : ....................................... : ..... $2, 000,000 Amount of annual sales ......................................................................... $8,000,000 

Tons of coal.used annually.................................................................... 300,000 

·STOVE INDUSTRY, 

Number of men employed.................................................................. 3, 000 

:!:~~~ ~~ :Oa:::l~:l~s~.~~:.::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ~: ~: ~ SHIRT .AND COLLAR BUSINESS. 

Number of persons employed:............................................................ 11,000 Amount of wages paid annually,........................................................ $2, 000,000 .Amount of sales annually .................................................................. 88,000,000 

In addition to the foregoing industrie;s, Troy has one of the largest anu most 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSEo 1297 

perfectly equipped mathematical-instrumen~ manufa...~ries in the United Stat_cs; 

also large and. extensive paper-manufacturmg estabbsl:~ments, leather~beltmg 

and boiler-makin~ est~blislu:J?.ents, ale and lager brewenes, and a multitude of 

other manufacturmg 1ndustnes. . · In view of the foregoing facts yoU1' comnnttee r~s~ectfully recomm~~ul th~ 

passage of the bill, having amended the same by str1km~ out t~e word nnd,_ at the end of. line ll, also the word " fifty,'' at the beginmngofhne 12; so that1t 

shall read: "The site and building complete, the sum of ~00,000,' &c. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The tim~ allowed for rlebate in favor 

of the bill has expired. - Mr. KING. I ask by unanimous consent that the gentleman b~ allowed to go on. :The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair can not under the rule entertain a request for unanimous consent. . . Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. :Mr. Spea~er, I_w1sh to call t~<: at~en~10n 

of the House to one thing in connection w1th these public bnildings 

bills. This bill contains the s:.une provision which nearly all the bills 

for public buildings which J:lll:ve passed_ the House_for a number of years 

have contained. The proVlStOn to wh1ch I ref~r 1s as follows: 

· The plans, specifications, andfull estimates for said building shall ~e previou_sly 

made and approved according to law, and shall not exceed for the s1te and bmlding complete- the sum of $200,000. 

.Now I : call attention t.o the decisions of t~e _So_licitor of the T~eas~rry on this provision. Having exceeded that li!lnt ~a numb~r of buildings, or having gone on u!lder pl~s and spec~fi~ti?ns :md expende~ all 

the money appropriated m the bill under thlS hm1tation, theArchltect 

then submits the question to the Solicitor of_ tJ;le Tr~sury w~et~er he 

could go on and ex;pend other money, notw1thstandrng the.hm1t con- tained in the act providing for the building.- He inquir~s also whether · he can make such plans and specifications as in his judgment the exigency of the service may require. The Solicitor replies as follows: · 

In the t of l\lay 25,1882, Congress said_ to t~e ~eCJ·etary of the Treasury, pro- ceed and purchase a site and erect a pubhe bulidmg thereon, but yon shall "Dot 

expend more than f200 OOOfor that purpose. In the net of July7,1884, Congr~ss 

again said in eftect: It ls true we limited you to_$200,000, and we are now of opm- ion that sum is not sufficient for the purpose intended, and therefor~ we a';lthol·-

ize you to expend $45,000 more. Can. there be any doubt as to the mtent~on of 

Congress? 1'hen it foUows t.hat so far as the last nets are repugnant to or mcon- sistent· with the first-they substantially repeal the first-. In other words, the first 

law is to be read as authorizing a.n expenditure of $245,000. 

Tho other question submitted by the Architect is this: . 

If however in the case of any one or all of the buildings named, it should be my Judgment' that the publieofticers and the public bnsin~ to i>e properly done 

wouJd require a. building whose cost would exceed the present aggregate appro- priations, I desire to ask inst~ucti_ons as to whet?er I may ~lOt prepare the 

plans fo1· buildings at. these·pomts m accordance ~~~h the mamfest demands of 

public busin.e sand w1thoutanyreference to anyhm1tofcost.as fixed by statute. 

The .A.Tchitect here asks in subst..'tnce if he is bound to consider the 

limitation as anythina more than so much at first appropriated. 

He usks if he can n~ make plans and specificatiollS, not..withstanding 

they will in>olve further appropriations, anticipating that Congress 

would "O on and appropriate more. Now I call the attention of the 

House to this fact, that those bills passed under ihe supposition that the 

limitation on the cost of tbe building is definite and final and that the 

nppropTiation caD. not be exceeded, do not determine the final cost of 

buildings. 

Mr. STOCKSLAGER rose. Mr. · WARNER, of Ohio. Let me proceed to show in how m::my cases 

this limit has been exceeded. 

Ur. STOCKSLAGER. That is only by subsequent act of Congress. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. Oh, yes; by subsequent acts of Congress, but that is expected. · 

Ur. STOCKSLAGER. Ovex which the Com~ittee on Appropriations have control. _ !llr. WARNER, of Ohio. This Congress, notwithstanding this limitation have passed bills for fui-ther appropriation of money for buildings on which the cost wus limited. Out of the sevent_y-two bills now before the House ·there are a considerable number asking lor la1·ger appro- priations, because these limitations have not been adhered to by the 

Architect. 

Mr. STOCKSLAGER. I think you·are right about that. 

Mr. WARNER, of Ohio. .All of tbe authorities responsible for these 

public buildings--

[Here the hammer fell.] 

The SPEAKER p ro tempore. The time in opposition to the bill has 

expired. 

Mr. HOLMAN. I understand there is an amendment pending to the 

bill reducing the appropriation from · 250,000 to $200,000. 

1\Ir. BURLEIGH. Yes, there is. 

The SPEAKEH. pro tempore. Is there objection to the present con- sideration of this bill? 

Mr. WELLER. I object. _ The SPEAKER pro t-empore. Those objecting to the consideration of 

this bill will rise and stand until counted. Five members only nave 

1·isen, not a sufficient number, and the bill is before the House for con8iderntion. The Clerk will report the amendment of the committee. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

In lines 11 andl2, strikeout " 50; " so it. will read " 200.000 " insteadof 1' 2i"JO,OOO.', 

The amendment 'Yas agr.eed to. 

XVI-82 

Mr. RANDALL. · I should like to put in nnder the limitatiO!J.S the 

words '' and the approac~es. 1' 

-The amendment was agreed to. . . The bill as. amended was ordered to be engrossed and read a thud 

time; and being engrossed, it was accordingly read the third time, and 

passed. . J.h bill Mr. BURLEIGH moved to reconsider the vote by ~hiCh t ~ 

was passed; ancl al o moved that the motion to reconsider be la1d on 

the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. 

PURCHASE 01<_' ADbi1.'IO:s-.AL GROUNDS FOR PUB~IC BUTI.DINGS. 

l\Ir. SPRINGER. I ask for the_ co~sideration ofthe bill {S. 674) 

to :mthori~e the purchase of additional grounds for the United States 

court-ho:use and post-office building at Springfield, Ill. 

The bill was read, as follows: 

Be it enacted &c. That the Secretary of the Treasury l>e, and lie is llereby, au- thorized to p~rch~s_e the g~·ound a~joining t_he United State~ c~urt-house and 

post-office building m the CJty of Spn ngfield, m the State of llhnms, bounde~ on the nortll by l\Ioru·oe street, on the east by Seventh street, on the wes_t by Stxth 

street, and on the south by the alley in the middle o( the bloc~ : ~ro~ded, That 

said additional ground can be pm·chnsed , and a. good a.n.d va.lid title seeur~d to t be United States, for not ex<.'e din~ $26,000. And thet·e lS her~by a.pprop~1ated 

for this ptupose, out of any money m the Treasury not ot.he1"W1se appropriate~, 

the sum of $26 000 or so much thereof as may be necessary. The Secretary lS 

authorized to ~us~ the buMdings now on said ground to be removed, and th~ lot 

inciQ«ed and improYed · nnd tor this purpose· he may nse the proceeds deriVed 

from ~the sale of the tildings and in addition the sum of $1,000, or so much 

thereof as may be neesssary, which sum is hereby appropriated out of any money in th·e Treasury not otherwise appropriated. 

Ur; SPRINGER. I\Ir. Speaker, this bill, I will say in brief, has re- ceived the unanimous recom~endation of the Committee on Public 

Buildings and Gt·oun<ls of this House and h:lB una~.imously_passed the 

Senate. I hold in my hand a report of the committee, which may be 

read if any gentleman desires it to be read. I wish to say, h9wever, 

before that,· that this property must be purchased ~fore th~ close ?f 

this ses ion or else the Government can never obtam possess10n of 1t 

at all. The owner of tho property has recently died and it is now in the hands of 1he executor, who is required to close up the estate, 

which will necessit..'1te--the sale of this property to the highest bidder, 

and immediate]~ upon its sale .it will be completely filled up by private buildinas thereby surrounding the Government property at that 

point. I m;y' say. in thi'3 connection tha~ 'there is necessitr for increasing the building already ther~; but, owmg to t~e-_neceSSlty of approprill.!tions of this char.1cter.th1s year I .have not mslSted upon that. I 

deem it to be the greatest economy on the part of the Government to secure this land when it can be done so cheaply as .the amount stated 

bere-:-$:2G,OOO. If gentlemen wish to see a plat of the property ~ can show it to them, and it is the opinion of gentlemen well acquam~d 

with the value of property in that vicinity that the price ~~d upon 

this is exceedingly low, and that the Government shouldavail1tselfof 

the opportunity now of getting control. · .Mr. CUTCHEON. May I ask the gentleman if this ha.s ummimously 

passed the Senate? _ . Mr. SPRINGER. Yes, sir; and has been unanimously recomJpend~d 

by the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds, not only of this 

but of the last House. 

1\Ir. \V A.RNER, of Ohio. l\Ir. Speaker, I opposed the· adoption of 

this rule because fron~. the little experience I have had with such rules 

I anticipated just the condition of affairs that has already become man- ifest. I am not-one of those who belie\'e that thiscountryhassuffered 

in its past history because the quantity of.legislation has beeJ;t insu~­

cient. It may have suffered from unwise legislation, from hasty legislation or from ill-considered legislation, but not because the quantity 

has n~t been as great as it should be. I am myself more concerned 

about the quality than I am about the quantity of legislation. _ The 

natural effect of this rule is to link interestc; together and to place one member under obligations to another. There is probably not a member here but has some measure he is anxious to get through. 

I do not mean to insinuate, for I do not, that any.member will be 

directly controlled in his action by what he may wish to bring bef01·e 

the House• but I say that the natural tendency of the rule is to place 

members ~der a feelina- of obligation fu one ·another. This feeling is 

necessarily engendered by this rule, for when one _has refm.ined fr~m objecting to bills it is rather expected that others w1ll not obJect to hlS, 

and in that way bills are permitted to pass which ought ne_t to pass. 

LCoaislation through mutual obligation or by mutual courtesy lS not ~e 

legislation. And I think we will not have proceeded very far under th1s 

new ruie, 1\Ir. Speaker, before we will find that this is exactly the re- sult of this sort of legislation by t urns to accommodate members. The 

whole seventy-two public buildings bills mightgo_t,hrough in this way, 

perhaps. I ask if the country will be benefited by this kind of legislation? 

Is thiS such legislation as should be allowed to crowd out public business as appropriation bills or the ri>er .and harbor bill or other busines.'3'which requires and should have full discussion and conside:mtion? 

This is legislation without discussion, except for five or ten minutes, 

and that really amounts to nothing but to consume so much time. I 
- 

1298 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-=-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

am, therefore, opposed not only to this rule limt to the execution of it. 

I am opposed to proceeding a step under such a rule. 

[Here the hammer fell.] . . · . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The time for debate on this proposition has expired. Is there objection to the present consideration of the 

bill? 

Mr. WELLER:· I object. 

The SPEAKER pro temp01·e. Th~ Chair will call for objections un- ier the rule. 

Four members only objecting, the consideration of the bill was or:- dered. . Mr._ SPRINGER. I move the previous question upon the bill. 

Mr. WELLER. I move the following amendment. . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Illinois was recognized as in possession of the floor. If the previous question which 

he demands is voted down it will then be competent for gentlemen to 

offer amendments. . Mr. RANDALL and others. Let the amendment be read for information. .· The SPEAKER pro tempore. The previous question has been de-. manded.• . . 

Mr. STORl\:L There will be some objection here if the House is 

going to shut off amendments. 

The SPEAKER p1·o tempore. The question i on ordering the previous question. . . The previous question was ordered. 

Mr. SPRINGER moved to reconsider the· vote by which the previous 

question was ordered; a~d also moved that the motion to reconsider be 

laid on the table. 

The latter motion was agreed to. - The bill was accordingly taken from the Speaker's table and read by 

its title a first and second time. 

The SPEAKER pro. tempm·e. . The question recurs upon the third 

r.eading of the Senate bill. 

The question was taken; and there wer.e~aye 119, noe 8. · 

~fr. WELLER. No quorum. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The point of order being made that no quorum has voted the Chair will order tellers. . 

~fr. WELLER and Mr. SPRINGER were appointed tellers. · The House again divided, but before the result of the vote was an- nounced, · · · · 

~- WELLERt one of the tellers, said: I withdraw the point that no quorum has voted. . The bill was ordered to be read third time; aud being read the 

third time, was passed. 

1\Ir. SPRINGER moved to reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed; and also moved that the motion_ to reconsider be laid on the 

table. . 

The .la.tter rnotio~ ~as agreed to. 

SALE OF NEW. YORK INDIAN LAl-.'"0 . 

Mr. PERKINS. I call up for cons~deration the bill (H. R. 2047) to 

provide for the sale of certain New Y or.k Ill'dian lands in Kansas, which was reported by the Committee on Indian Affairs, and is now on the 

House Calendar. · · 

The bill ~as read, as follows·: 

Be it ena,cted, &c.,. That those person , being heads of families or single _persons over21yearsofage, who have made settlement and improvement. upon, and are bona fide claimants and occupants of, either in person or b~ tenant, the lands in Kansas which were allotted to certain New York Indians, and for which certifi- cates of allotment, dated the 14th day of Se.ptember, 1860, for three .hundred and 

twenty acres of land each, were issued to thirty-two of said Indians, shall be, and 

hereby are, authorized and -permitted to eater and purchase at the proper land 

office, at any time within one year from the passage of this act, said lands so occu- pied by them, in tracts not exceeding one hundred and sixty acres, according to the Government surveys, at not less than sa per acre, payment to be made in 

three annual installments, one-third at date of entry, one-third at the end of one year from date of entry, and the balance in two years from date of entry, with in- terest-on said amounts, respectively, from date of entry at·6 per cent. per annum; and the moneys ari ing from such sales shall be paid into the Treasury of the 

United States in trust for, and to be paid t{), said Indians, respectively, to whom 

said certificates were issued, or to their heirs, upon satisfact{)ry proof of their 

·identity t{) the Secretary of the lnterior, at any time within five yaars from the passage of this act; and in case such proof is "notmade within the timespecifiedJ then tne -proceeds of such sale, or so much thereof as shall not have been paia 

under the provisions of this act, shall become a part of the public moneys of the 

United States. - SEo. 2. That any lands not entered by such settlers at the expiration of one year from the passage of this act . shall be offered at public sale, in the usual manner, at not less than $3 per acre, notice of said sale to be given by public advertisement of not less than thirty days; and any tract or tmcts not then sold, 

togethel'with such tracts as have heretofore been, or may hereafter be, entered, 

and wherein default has been made in the payment of any portinn of the pur- chase-money; or the interest thereon, as· herein or heretofore provided, shall be 

thereafter subject to p:ivate entry at the appraised value of said tracts. 

Th~ amendment~ reported by the committee were read, as follows: 

In lines 16 to 20 tl-ike out" in three annual installments, one-third at date of 

entry, one-third at the end of one year frnm. date of entry, and the balance in two years from dote of entry, with mte1·est on said amounts, respectively, from 

d::tte of entry at 6 pel' (;Cn.t. per annum," and insert "in cash at time of purchase." In section 2, lines 6 to 10, strike out these words : ' Together with such tracts as have heretofore been, or may hereafter be, en- tered, and wherein default has been ~ade in the payment of any portion of the 

purcha."'&'money, or the interest thereon, as herein or heretofore provitleli." ~ 

Mr. PERKINS. I desire to say this bill has been una.nimously re- ported by the Committee on Indian .Affairs, they having given to i: care- ful consideration. I also desire to say that the ~me bill w~ reported, 

to the Forty-seventh Congress from that committee. There are only 

thirty-two tracts remaining of this land. It was a part of what were the New York Indian lands in our State, embracing 1,824,000 acres. 

All .th.e balance has been sold to settlers at $1.25 per acre. This bill 

provides these thirty-two pieces of land, of three hundred and twenty acres each, shall be sold at $3 per acre in cash. 

The Indians to whom. the land was allotted are making no objectiona 

to the bill. They-were here some years ago proposing through their attorney to accept $2.50; but the committeet in view of the circumstances, 

thought it right to make the amount $3 per acre and to provide the 

payment should be at once in cash. The Indians who will be benefited by this legislation are not only, a.s I have said, interposing no objection, but are. wanting it. · . The land has. been occupied by settlers more than twenty years, during which time they have been cultivating and improving it but have . not been in condition to get title to it. It is in consequence of that 

state of things that this legislation is necessary. All the balance of 

that great reservation of 1,824,000 acres was disposed of by the act of 

the President of the United States in 1860, by his executive order and 

proclamation, at $1.25 per acre. But this wrui allotted to these Indians 

who are now seeking to be put in a condition that they may get some- thing from it.. This bill proposes to give them $3 in cash, which would 

be $1.25 from the date of settlement with 6 per" cent. interest to this ~a , 

These settlers who are on this land think they should get it at 1. 25. 

But our committee is of opinion that they should pay the 1.25 paid 

!or the balance and 6 per cent. interest; it amounts substantially, though 

not quite, to the sum mentioned in the bill. 

Ur. LONG. What is the land worth an acre now? 

Mr. PERKINS. The land with improvements on it is worth probably $15 to $20' or $25 an acre. · Mr. HISCOCK. Have the settlers·paid any rent? 

Mr. PERKINS. No, sir. 

Mr. BLANCHARD rose. The SPE4KER pro tempore. Does the gentleman ~·om Lou~iana. 

rise to oppose the bill? 

Mr. BLANCHARD. I do. I dislike very much to oppose my friend 

from Kansas [Ur. PERKINS] when he calls up this bill for the consideration of the Honse. I happened, however, to have been a member 

of the Committee on Indian Affairs in the Forty-seventh Congress, and 

it was allotted to me while serving on that committee to make an investigation in this matter. I did so, and I reported to the con;tmittee 

that the price of $3 per acre, as proposed in the bill of that session and 

likewise in the bill which my friend from Kansas hns just presented, was not the actual value of that land. Ang I furthermore. reported 

that· the Secretary of the Interior in a former year, Mr. Carl Schurz, 

had reported against this very proposition which is embodied in this 

bill. I hold his report in my hand. I furthermore reported to the 

committee and state to this Honse that under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior a commissio:n was appointed to go out there and 

ex..'lmine into the value of these lands; and I hold in my hand the re- port of that commission relative to the value of those lands. . 

I call the attention of the House to the fact that the price fixed in 

this bill is $3 an acre; whereas when this report was made seyeral years 

ago-five, six, or seven years ago-the least value of any acre of -that 

land was $3. 75, the highest valuation being $10 au acre.. Under this 

reportwhich I hold inmyhand the average price of the land would be 

four or five dollars an acre: M:r~ FUNSTON. Will the gentleman allow me a question? 

Mr. BLANCHARD. I hr..ve but five minutes. 

Mr. HAI\fMOND. I ask the gentleman to allow me a . question. 

Were you one oft he minority of the committee that made the dissenting report? 

Mr. BLANCHARD. I was. Mr. HAMMOND. Who joined yon in making that report? 

Mr. BLANCHA~D. Mr. Charles E. Hooker, of Mississippi, and Ur. 

JAMES K. J ONE , of Arka.nsass. This .land belongs to these Indians. 

1\fr. PERKINS. Will the gentleman yield to me for a question? 

1\lr, BLANCHARD. I yield to the gentleman. 

1\Ir. PERKINS. Did yon ever know one of those Indian to in.terpose an objection to this legislation? 

Mr. BLANCHARD. It was not my province to hunt up these. Indians or their attorneys. I am s~ting the facts, and I say the price of 

$3.50 an acre for these lands which belong to these Indians is far below 

the actual value of those lands. 

l\Ir. HAMMOND. 1\fr. Speaker, I rise to a question of order. · 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state his question 

of order. 

Mr. HAMMOND. ·I\Iy point is that the. holir allotted for the con- sideration of these bills has expired. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is mistaken. ~Ir. BLANCHARD. I will venture the assertion, Ur. Speaker, that 

there is not an acre of.these lands to-day tbat is ~ot worth from $10 to 

$15. 

• 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-. HOUSE. 1299 

1111'. PERKINS. Is not that the consequence of improvements put Committee of the Whole on the state o . he'Unioo, tO resume the con- upon them by the settle.rs? · sideration of t~e river and harbor appropriation bill. 

M:r. BLANCHARD. I mean without the improvements. Y-ears ago, ·The motion was agreed to. 

when these lands were not improved, or without regard to the improve- The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committ~e of the 

ments existing, the lowest figure at whic? they were valu~ per acre Whole on the state of the Union (Mr. HA.M:MoND in the chair), and was $3.75 and the highest $10. resumed the consideration of the bill (H. R. 8130) making appropriaN ow, sir, I say that we should deal faj.rly by these Indians. If these tions for the construction, repair, and -preservation . of certain public 

lands are worth more than $3 an acre, the. settlers ought to· be required works on rivers and harbors, and for other purposes. 

to pay their value to the Indians, and with a view to providing for The CHAIRMAN. The House is now in Committee of the Whole 

that object I will offer an amendment. . Qn the state of the Union for the purpose of further considering the 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair "'Will inform the gentlerqan . river and harbor appropriation bill. The pending question when the 

that the bill is not now before the House and therefore an amendment committee· rose yesterday was on the motion of the gentleman from 

is not in oroer. When the bill comes-before the House the Chair will Kentucky [Mr. WHTJ.'E] to increase the appropriation fot continuing 

recognize the gentleman to offer his amendment. The time for debate . the improvement of the harbor of Burlington, Vt., from twenty to 

has been exhausted.· Is there objection to the consideration of this twenty-one thousand dollars. 

bill? 1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. Mr. Chairman, I desire to further amend 

Mr." BENNETT. I object, and call for the reading of the report. that parngmph by making the appropriation for the harbor of BurlingThe bill was laid aside, the requisite num9erofmembershavingob- ton, Vt., $80,000. Tinvite attention to the report of the ChiefofEnjected to its co~ideration. gineers, which will be found in volume 2, part 3, page 2157, in which 

KATHERINE c. B. l\IERRJLL. it is stated that the estimated cost of repairs of the 1,100 linear feet of 

breakwater recently injured by the storms is $35,000, and that the 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I call for the regular order. . cost of repairs of the additionall,OOO linear feet of the superstructure, 

• The SPEAKER 1n·o tempere. The Chair is in the execution of the which shonld be repaired next season, will be about $20,000. Now, 

regular order, and the gentleman from Loui iana [M:r. KING] is recog- sir, the committee proposes to make for tliat harbor altogether an apnized. · propriation of only $20,000. I think that som~ explanation ought to 

:Mr. KING. Mr. Speaker, I ask the presentconsfderation of the bill be made to the House, to the committee, and to· the country, as well 

(S. 2168) for the relief of the executrix of Ayers P. Merrill.' as to the engineers having this work in charge: of the reasons why the 

The. bill was read1 as follows: committee propose to appropri.1.te so small a sum. There can be but 

Be it enacted, &c., That the claim of Katherine c. B.l\lenill, executrix of the one reason f~r it, and it is that we are afraid to pass a bill commensurate 

last will and test-ament of Ayers P. 1\ferrill, deceased, and late of the State of with the ne~ds of commerce, we are afraid to pass a bill in accordance 

ldississippi.,for quartermaster and commissarystores and supplies alleged t.o with the recommendations of the Chief of Engineers. havebeentakena.ndusedbytheUnitcdStatesArmy,durin~therebellion,from Th h · fth 'tte tells tbatn... 'tt h the plantations of said 1\Ierrill, in the vicinity of Nat-chez, 1\Iiss., be referred to e C all.'IIlall 0 e COm.ml e US w..1.e comm1 ee as re- the Quartermaster-General, whoshall investigate thejusticeandlegalityofsa.id ieL1ed one hundred and forty of the rivers recommended in the EngiclAim a.nd report the amount and value of said stores and supplies taken and neer report; but in this bill, which carries 12,000,000, they propose us6abytheArmyoftheUnitedStates,andalsowhato.mounthasbeenpaidon to · te thin · fr 4:!1000 hfi h d d d the same; and that he report all the facts and evidence for the considera.tion of appropna some g varymg om 'I' ' eac or one un re an Congress. · · forty-one rivers, so that they have reJected about one-half of those rec- ommended. 

Mr. KING. . I ask for the reading of the repot:t. · I desire to repeat again in the hearing of this Committee of the Whole 

Mt. WELLER. Mr. Speaker, I rise to a- question of order. that it. is a waste of money to make niggardly appmpriations in the .The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. Mr. WELLER. My point of order is that the houi for the consid- prosecution of these public works. The lllllchinery is there; th~ plant 

eration of these bills began at twenty minutes past 2, and has now ex- is there; the annual expenses of employes above the grade of laborers 

pired. . go on; the salaries of the civil engineers as well as the regular engineers 

AK continue. All these expenses must go on whether the aJ>propriation is 

The SPE ER pro tempore. The hour began at twenty-two min- $20,000 or $80,000. If you appropriate $20,000, a larger p~centage of 

utes past 2, and will end at twenty-two minutes past 3 . .Mr. WELLER. Twenty minutes past 2, I distinctly· understood. the appropriation will go for the pa.y of officers, the keeping up of rna- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is not responsible for the chinery, and everything else in the way of eqmpage, than if yon ap- propriate $801 000. 

gentleman's understanding. But, sir, the committee tell us that on the 1st of. July, 1884, there . Mr. REED, of Maine. Then the in_dicator in front of the Clerk's was available for this work $383. Last year we made an appropriation desk ought to be changed. · · Tqe SPEAKER pr:o tempore: The Chair is taking the report as to the of 50,000. The amount required for the completion of this project, time made to him by the Clerk. . which was begun away back in 1836, is $203,000. The amount that 

Mr. mSCOCK. I desire to ask the gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. can be profi.ta.bly expended during the fiscal year ending June.30, 1886, KL~G] in charge of this bill how many other relief bills have been is $80,000. Yet"thecommittee proposes to have this branch of the Enpassed for the same party to whom this bill applies. gineer Corps undertake to do this work for $20,000. Does not every Mr. KING. None. . business _man know that the expenses of the plant and the officers must 

The Clerk proceeded to read the report of the comniittee upon the come out of this sum of $20,000, and that a very small portion of it 

pending bill. will be left for making repai.rs? And it is estimated that for repairs 

Pending the reading of the report, alone $55,000 will be ·rel:Juired- 20,000 for the repair of one stretcll 

Mr. WELLER. :Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of order. and $35,000 fo:t: the repair of the other stretch. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state it. [Here the hammer fell.] · M:r. WELLER. My -point is that the Chair announced at ~he com- Mr. WILLIS. Mr. Chairman, the best and indeed the only reply 

mencement that this hour began a.t twenty minutes past 2. necessary to be made to the remarks qf my colleague on this subject is 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair overrules the point of order. that the harbor of Burlington is represented on this floor by the genCh ted tleman from Vermont [:Mr. STEW.A.RT],·who is now present, and en The air sta: ' as he. was informed by the Clerk at. the Speaker's tirely acquiesces in the adion of the Committee on Rivers and Harbors. 

9-esk, that the hour began at twenty-two minutes past· 2. "The hour I ask a vote on the amendment. . has now expired. Mr. ROBERTSON. r ask unanimous consent to take from the · The question being taken on the amendment of Mr. WHIT~ of KenSpeaker's table and refer to the.Committee .on Claims the bill (S. 10) tucky, as modified, to make the appropriation $80,000, it was not 

for .. the ·refief of Harry· I. Todd, late keeper of the Kentucky peniten- a~~ i;:~k read -as follows: 

tiary. . . . There being no objection, it was ordered a.ccordingly. Improving harbor at Boston, Mass.: Continuing improvement, $50,000. 

Mr. HEWITT, of Alabama. Mr. Speak~r, I ask unanimous consent 1\Ir. SPOONER. Mr.· Chairman, I had hoped to have the opportn- to submit a report. • 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. nity to discuss this bill during the p"rogress of the general debate; but I 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I call for the regular order. 

The SPEAKER pro ten~pore. The regular order is demanded by £he 

gentleman from Kentucky [11Ir. WHITE]. 

.Mr. WILLIS. As the1·e was a call of committees yesterday, I move to dispense with the morning hour. 

The motion was agreed to. · Mr. WILLIS moved to reconsider the vote by which the motion to 

dispense with the morning hour was agreed to-; and also moved to lay 

that motion on the table. · The latter motion was agreed to. 

:Mr. WILLIS. I now move that the House resolve itself into the 

labored under the same misfortune as many other members in. not "Qeing 

able to participate in any of' the time, which was controlled entirely by 

the Committee on Rive.rs and Harbors. I shall accordingly be com- pelled to take such advantage as I can of the five-minute "debate to interject, in as condensed (orm as I may, what l"elllllrks I hav' to make 

concerning this river and harbor appropriation bill. 

As much as any member on the floor I regret the manner in which 

this bill was prepared and the course pursued by the .committee in 

limiting general debate, and thus preventing a more general consideration of its provisions. I neither approve of the peculiar privacy in 

which the bill w.as framed by the Committee on Rivers and· Harbors nor of the results, necessarily proceeding from such a course, so evident 

...
:-

. . .. . 

1300 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-H.OUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

upon the face, of the· . orlt.- It is this state of facts which necessitated 

the criticisms which have been made concerning many of the appropriations pJ:oposed by this bill, and compels rue, at this otherwise perhaps unseasonable time, to present certain facts and suggestions ·-ror 

consideration which might have been more pertinent in the general 

debate, but which the course adopted by the committee, against the 

protests of many of us, then afforded me no opportunity to ·submit. 

I favor, and I represent a constituency which strongly favors, reason- ably liMral appropriations for the improvement of all such rivers and 

harbors as are legitimate objects of national bounty, and to provide all 

proper safeguards for navigation and for the protection of our great 

commercial interests; but I do protest against the provisions of a bill 

which discriminates, as this bill does, against the important interests 

of my own locality and State, and.against the interests of large sections 

of this country anjl in favor of other sections. 

The Committee on Rivers and Harbors, according to their report, have 

included in this bill appropriations amounting, in the aggregate, to 

$12,323,700, embracing some very doubtful and some unworthy objects 

of appropriation, as I believe a . careful inspection of the items will 

show, being more than 35 per cent. of the total estimates submitted by 

the ·engineers; yet the flexible theory; or lack of theory, upon which 

this bill was constructed, 1V hile rejecting entirely one hundred and forty 

of the appropriations calle~ for in the Book of Estimates-one of those 

rejected being for the completion of the important harbor of refuge at 

Block Island, in my o.wn State-reduces many appropriations fur below 

the amounts required fpr the proper prosecution of meritorious works 

now in progress, and far below 35 per cent. of the estimates and recommendations of the engineers, but appropriates great sums for numerous less deserving projects, and frequently 50 per cent., and sometimes 

100 per cent-. of the estimates; gives $750,000 for the b.arbor of Galveston Without any estimate at all, and casts. millions of dollars into the 

turbid waters of the Mississippi with but a possibility of any resulting 

improvement to that wayward stream. · 'fhe bill opens modestly, I admit, with the apparent purpose of appropriating 25 per cent. of the amounts ·recommended by the engineers; 

and that r~le appe.1.rs to have been very rigidly applied in the appropriations conceded to my locality.· 

The bill ignores large Government interests and the necessities of a grea.t line{)f water travel aud transportation at Newport, R. !. 1 by a strict; application of the 25 per cent. limitation. 'The work in progress 

in · Providence R~ver and Narraganset Bay, demanded in the interest 

of a large ·existing and increasing commerce and a work of national 

importa,nce, receives but 25 per cent. of the appropriation recommended ·therefor, that is to say, but $25,000. The same rule is very genem:ll.y 

and persistently applied, with but rn.re exceptions, I believe, to the 

entire Northern Atlantic coast. 

But the liberality of the committee has wonderfully expanded and 

their conscience has become singularly elastic as they reach those 

States represented upon the Committee on Rivers and Harbors ·and 

those sections of the country most largely represented upon that com- mittee. · Savannah, Charleston, and Mobile are given appropriations rahging 

from $85,000 to $150,000 41ach for works of far less national importance 

than those in progress in my own State, and for the benefit of a com- merce far inferior to that of the city of Providence. One hundred and 

twenty thousand dollars are appropriated for the harbor of Mobile50-per cent. of the amount recommended; $175,000 for the Great Kanawha River, $48,900 for the Monongahela,, $40,000 . tor the Coosa, 

$112,500 for the Cumberland, and $350~00 for the Tennessee, . the Jatter·beirig more than 63 percent. ofthe:nnouritrecommended; but each 

of these project" is located in a State represented on the Committee on Rivers and Harbors; and when we come to the State represented by the 

chairman of that conin1ittee we find an appropriation for the Kentucky 

River of $200,000, nearly one-half the amount recommended, and an appropriation of $125,000 for the Falls of the Ohio at Louisville ! 

Mr. WILLIS. I rise to oppose the amendment, and ask for a vote. 

The question being taJ~en on the amendment of Ur. SPOONER, it was 

not agreed to. 

1\Ir. SPOONER. I move to strike out the word next to the last. 

Mr. HISCOCK. I hope the gentleman does not intend to '' insinuate'' ariythin..,.. : · · · Mr. SPOONER. I withdraw any,, insin~ation.'' (Laughter]. 

I insinuate nothing and intend to impute no unworthy motive to any 

member. I simply intend to call attention to the monstrous inequaJitiespresented by this bill-the necessary result of the privacy in which 

the bill was framed and the consequent lack of information in the com- mittee concerning the comparative merits an·d necessity of the various 

projects under consideration. 

Gent .. en who have preceded rue in their criticisms of this bill have 

been accUsed of raising a sectional issue here; but that issue was raised 

by the committee itself, when it brought in a bill which invites and 

justifies these comparisons. T4enatural and necessary criticisms upon 

this bill are only such as the bill itself presents to the House. Now, 

I believe the fact to be, and I can only so reconcile the protestations. and statements of the committee with the evidently unjust discrimi- lh'l~ions made, that the committee were utterly uninformed or misinform~d concerning many matters and statistics most· pertinent and essential to the consideration of river and harbor appropriations, and to 

their fair, reasonable, and equitable apportionment. 

It is no sufficient or fit ·u.nswer to these criticisms for the committee 

to tell us that no sectional issue was raised or mooted in their deliberations, and tlmt they had no in.t.ention of extending liberal appropriation~ 

to one portion of the country at the expense of another portion. The 

fact still remains that' such discrimination exists and is readily traced, 

.as has been already indicated, and stares at us from almo t every page 

of the bill. · · 

The gentlemail from Texas the other day S!l.W fit to refei· slightingly 

to t'he little State I have the honor to represent lJpon this floor, illustra-ting, I think, the need of that same information on his part concerning the compa1·ative magnitude of Rhode Island interests, the want of 

which by the Committee on Rivers and Harbors bas resulted in this 

very unequal, unjust, and imperfect bill. It is this ignorance and its 

necessary results of which I complain. 

It might seem preposterous for me Mr. Chairman, to attempt comparison of the little State of Rhode Island, at_ which the gentleman al-

·most sneered, with the great empire State of Texas. But if the committee will permit U;ICopportunity, and I will try to seek.it,--I will make 

such comparison here and now. . 

Mr. REAGAN. I suppose the gentleman does not want to do me 

injustice. I made no sneer at Rhode Islal).d, and the gentleman is entirely too sensitive, as there is 'no earthly ground for it. 

Mr. SPOONER. It appeared so in the printed remarks of the gentleman, and my attention has been called to it by several members in 

private upon the _floor. . 

Texas, .Mr. Chairman, embraces a territory more than two hundred 

and forty-one times larger than that of the State of Rhode Island, and 

I shall not attempt to moat the qucstionofwhetherTexas is not larger 

in area than my own little St... te. The population gf Texas is more than five times that of Rhode Island. Yet all ·that bro~d expanse of 

territory, comprising an area of 262,290 square miles, with its build}.ngs 

and impro\-ements, constituting the real estate of that' immense State, 

ts of ·an assessed value but little exceeding that of -the 1,085 square 

miles of Rhode Island. · [He1·e the hammer fell.] 

MESSAGE FROl\1 . THE l'RESIJ?ENT. 

The Committee of the Whole here rose informally, and 1\Ir. FINDLAY took the chair ns Speaker pro tempore . A message in writin2; from the President of the United States was communicated to the House by Mr. ·PRUDEN, one of hiS secretaries. 

LEG ISLA.TIVE, ETC., APPROPRIATION BILJ,. 

Mr. HOLMAN, by unanimous consent, from the Committee on .Appropriations, reported a bill (H. R. 8179) making appropriations for 

the legislative and judicial expenses of the Government for the fiscal 

year·ending June 30, 1886, and for other purposes; which was read a first and second time, referred to the Committee of the 'Vhole Honse on the state of the Union, and, with the accompanying report, ordered 

to be printed. · Mr. M~IILLIN. I reserve all points of order. 

RIVER .AND HARBOR APPROPRIATION BILL. 

The committee resumed its se...~;gion, MI·. il..\?rUIOND in the chair. 

Mr. WILLIS. I hope we will have a vote now. · 1\lr. STEELE. I desire to yield my tirile to the gentleman from 

Rhode Island. 

1\Ir. PAYNE. Give him five minutes more. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will remark it again that there has 

been no disposition to cut off debate 'in any form, but the rule requires 

five minutes debate on either side, and when another gentleman rises 

to tak~ the floor the Chair treatS it as an objection and varying from 

the r1,1le. Therefore the C~ir recognizes the gentleman from Alabama. 

Mr. WILLIS. I hope, Mr. Chairman, we will get on with the bill. 

Mr. JONES, of Alabama. The gentleman from Rhode Island stated 

that a rule had been adopted by the committee appropriating· 25 per 

cent. of amount estimated by the engineers, and that in some localities 

this rule was enforced YC! rigidly, while in others an elnstic arrangement had -been adopted. To show how unfounded this imputation is 

I will refer to some appropriations as arranged in this bill and give the 

facts. 

The town of New London, Conn., is nqt, I believe, very distant from 

where the gentlemanresiqes. 'l'heamount appropdated for that town 

in this bill is $4,000. Now, if the gentleman will refer to the report 

of the engineers for the amount estimated for that place, he will find 

it is $6,200; $4,000 on that amounts to 66 per cent. That is rather 

elastic for a 25 per cent. rule. 

He says, moreover, that when we come to other parts of the country, 

to Alabama, for instance, that 25 per cent. was not adhered to. I ask 

him to lookattheamountappropriatedforthe CahawbaRiver, namely, $10,000, and then consult the Engineers' recommendation for that river 

of $100,000. Only 10 per cent. was appropriated by the committee for 

that river on the amount which the engineers report could be profitably expended. Is that elastic? 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL_ RECORD-HOUSE. 1301 

I call the gentleman's -attention also to the Alab:ama. River. The 

engineers recommended an appropriation there of $50,000. The com- mittee have given $10,000-only 20 per .cent. Is tliatelastic? Now 

look to the Detroit River; in Michigan, and you will find that the com- mittee give the full amount of the appropriation asked ·for, 100 per 

cent., being $27,700. Look also at the Ohio River; there the committee bave given over 50 per cent. of the recommendation of the engineers. 

Bnt the gentleman alluded to Mobile as getting $120,000 in this bill. 

Now, the ·rule adopted by the committee was not adhered to when a small amount as compared with the total co~ of an improvement would 

complete the work. That was the case on the Detroit Riv~r, and hence 

the committee gave the fuU amonht. In the case of the _Tennessee 

River, referred to by the gentleman fi·om Rhode Island, the $350,000 

completes thatimportantnationalimprovement. Why, sir, 4,000,000, 

o1· the:&about, have been expended by the General Government ·and 

the State of Alal:iama on that im_provement. And it should be remem- bered that ·this is not like the appropriations for many other rivers. 

Ot.her rivers ~re navigable and can be utilized . while the work progresses, but navigation on this river is wholly obstructed by-the Muscle 

Shoals, and appropriations heretofore made are of no use to commerce, 

and will not be until the work is completed. By making an appropriation of $350,000 we· complete this improvement, and they get the benefit 

of all the money that h~ been heretofore expended upon it, and open up 

the river to a navigable lengtli ofl,OOO miles from Virginia through Tennessee, Alabama, and Kentucky to the Ohio River. That. consideration influenced the committee in .appropriating the whole. am·ount. 

In the case of Mobile, $240,000 will com_plete the-project. which Wa.'?estimated in -1878 to cost $800,000, and the committee was influenced 

in appropriating 50 per cent .. of the $240,000, so that ~n the next an- nual appropriation a.n..appropriati9n of another $120,000 will complete 

the project. 

[Here the hammer fell.] . Mr. WILLIS. I call for a vote. 

Mr. SPOONER. · Unfortnnatelynone of the illusti.:ations 1·efel'l'ed to 

by the gentleman from Alabama [M.t:.-JONES] who has just occupied 

the fioor help the, in~rests in my own 'district and other localities, where the infiexible rule of 25 per cent. only of the amount recom- D).ended _by the engineers has been applied by this bill, and where one meritorious object of-appropriation, the harbor and breakwater at Block 

Island, a very necessary work of natio.nal importance which $15,000 

would complete, has been omitted entirely from the bill. · But I will proceed; sir, with my comparison concerning the State 

of '.:(exas. The assessed value ot the real estate in Texas is $205,508,-

924- . 

Mr. REAGAN. What date does the gentleman refer to? · ~Ir. SPOONER. Eighteen hundred and eighty. All of these fig- ures are-taken from the census of that year. ~ 

- That is an.average valne of only about $783 per square miie. 

Mr. REAGAN. I suppose the gentleman knows that there has been a. ver-J-great, a very material, change since the date of that report. 

Mr. SPOONER. While the assessed valueofreal estate in the little 

StateofRhodelsland is $f88,234,459; an average value of over$173,478 

per square mile. 

Mr. MILLS. The taxable property in the State of Texas has increased over$100,000,000 in one year-the year before last. 

Mr. SPOONER. Yes, sir; and we have been increasing up our way 

a little, too. 

Mr. MILLS. Nothing to compare with that. 

Mr. SPOONER We have been marching in that direction all 

through the past; and the enterprise of our people is certainly equal, 

and that can be demonstrated, to that of the people of any other portion of the country, to say the least; _and I see no reason to doubt that, 

if the .statistics were available, a present comparison would present 

substantially the same results indicated by those of the census of 1880. · Texa.s being regarded as a. great agricultural State, gentlemen may 

be inclined to smile at an attempt to compare her agricultural interests with those of-Rhode Island; yet I would like to submit a few facts even in that direction. [~ere the hammer fell.] 

During the delivery of Mr. SPOO~ER. s remarks the following proceedings occurred: · Mr. WILLIS. I a k for a vote on this ame:rulment. 

The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Rhode Island [Mr. SPOONER]. - _ The amendment was not agreed to. 

Mr. SPOONER. I move to strike out the fifth last word. 

Mr. WILLIS. I move that the committee rise for the purpose of 

limiting debate on this section. • Mr. HART. Is it understood that the gentleman from Kentucky 

[Mr. WILLIS] proposes to limit debate on the entire section. 

1\Ir. WILLIS. I withdraw the motion. 

Mr. SPOO:NER. I move to amend by striking out the fourth word 

before the last. 

Mr. ~ELFORD) I rise to a point of order. 

The GHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it .. Mr. BELFORD. It seems to me, M:r. Chairman-- · Mr. SPOONER. I hope this will not be taken out of my time. 

1-Ir. BELFORD. I do not want to occupy the gentleman's time. I 

want him to get in all he can. · But it seems to me an extraordinary 

proceeding to allow a gentleman to move to strike out the last word of a section; then, when he has consumed five minutes, to move to strike 

out the next last word, and so on continuously. If that is permitted, 

the gentleman may stand there discussing this bill through the whole 

time of this session of Congress. I say that such a thing was never heard of in this House before, at least during the eight years I ha.ve 

been a member of it. The speech of the gentleman from Rhode Island 

is very profitable and absolutely improving to our minds; but I protest 

against the right of a member to rise in his place and -move :first to 

strike out the last word, then to move to strike out the second last word, 

and. so on, and to speak to-each motion. I say it is in the face of the 

rule which directs tha-t a member shall not speak but once on a bill or 

motion until every other member of the House is heard. I want . to 

know whether th~ Chair :rnles -you can get up and move to strike. out 

the last word, and when you.r fi-ve minutes have expired that you can then move to strike out the ·second last word, and when a ·second five 

minutes have expired that you can then move to str~ke out the last ·three words, and so on? I want to know that, because I wish to get 

in 1·emarks on this bill myself. 

The CHAIRJ}1AN. The Chair will state on the point raised _by the 

gentleman from Colorado that all this is a. very extraordiflary proceeding; but there is no rule known to the. Chair that prevents gentlemen 

making successive moti9ns of this kind unless the conunittee chooses 

to xtse and limit the debate. The gentleman from Rhode Island will 

proceed. 

Mr. WILLIS. I hope now, Mr. Chairman, that we will have a vote. . Mr. SPOONER. I withdraw the motion that I made. and move to 

strike out the fourth word. · · 

Mr. WILLIS. Mr; Uhairman, I hope the gentleman from Rhode 

IslaD.d will not insist upon a general discussion in this manner. _ Mr. SPOONER. I :Q.ope the gentleman from Kentucky wili not insist upon his o~jection when it is remembered that tbe committee have 

controlled all the time for general debate. .. Jt>lr. WILLIS. I submit in good faith to the gentleman whether he 

thinks the river and harbor appropriations are being advanced by this 

discussion ? · Mr. SPOONER. I do, sir. The provisions of this bill demand con- sideration such as I believe I am assisting to secure. Mr. WILLIS. The gentleman must know that he is not in order in 

this manner, an~ I appeal to him in view of the cona.ition of the public 

business to let us go on with this bill. 

Air. SPOONER. The chairman of the committee thought it perfectly right alld proper that the members of the committee should have 

all the time in general debate. He thought it proper that each mem- ber of _the committee who favored the bill .should occupy an hour in 

general debate; and no gentleman not a member of the committee was permitted to say a word w.ithout their consent. I think we have good reason to be dissatisfied with the manner in which the bill has been prepared and reasonable general debate upon it refused. I seek the opportunity, therefore, by the indulgence of the House, to occupy such time as I can secure in presenting thesecomparativestafu!tics. Theyillustrate 

the suggestions I have made concerning the misapprehension which ex- ists as to the relative importance of different localities and the magnitude of various interests; and I considet: them entirely germane to the 

consideration of this bi.Jl. AGRICULTURE. 

It ma.y, .perhaps, seem preposterous to compare the agricultural interests of Rhode Island with those of Texas; for Rhode Island is. not 

only small in area, but her agricultural intere&t.s, which are·of minor 

importance, ar~ overshadowed by the m.agnitudeofherotherindustries. 

And yet what do the statistics show us? Persons engaged in agricult- ure in Texas, 359,317; in Rhode Island, 10,945; number of farms in 

Texas, 174~184-more than twenty-eight times as many as in Rhode 

Island, where there are 6,216. · The total number of acres of land in the farms of Texas is 36,292,219 

acres; in Rhode Island farms 514,813 acres; Texas having in her farms more than seventy acres of land for each acre in Rhode Island farms. 

The farms in Texas average two hundred and eight acres to each farm; 

those in Rhode Island average eigb ty -two acres to each farm. The value 

of all the farm!!! in Texas is $170,468,886. The value of all the farms 

in Rhode Island is $25,882,079: The average values of the farms in the 

respective States are-in Texas $979 per farm; in Rhode Island $4,162 

per farm. Yet, notwithstanding the very much larger average area of 

Texas farms-the average number of acres in each Texas farm being more than two and a half times the average number of ac1·es in each 

RhO<le Island farm, ann the impro>ed land in each Texas farm averaging nearly double that in each Rhode Island farm-each Texas farm 

produces, on the average, less than two·thirds in value of what is produced by each Rhode Island farm. · 

Texas is ~be great cattle State, and the value of all the live-stock on 

all the farms in Texas is $60,307,987. 

The CHAIR~~- The time of the gentleman has·expired. 

Mr. SPOONER. I withdraw my amendment. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I renew it and · yield my time to the 

gentleman from Rhode Island. 

-
1302 OONGRESSIONAL REOORD-HOUSE~ FEBRUARY 5, 

The CJiA.mMAN (Mr. SPRINGER). The -time of the gentleman. from Rhode Island haB expired. The question is on the amendment of 

the gentleman from. Kentucky [!I:r. WHITE]. - Mr. ADAMS, of Illinqis. r rise to oppose the amendment of the 

gentleman from Kentucky, and yield my time to the gentleman from 

Rkode Island (Mr. SPOOXER]. . . Ur. WILLIS. I object. 

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. SPRINGER). TheChair directs the Clerk-to 

read Clause 6 of Rule XIV. 

The Clerk read as follows: . 

No member shall speak more than once to the same question without leave 

of the House unless he be the mover or introducer of the matter pending,· in 

which case he sha.ll be permitted to speak in reply, but not till every member 

choosing to speak shall have spoken. 

Mr. JOHN S. WISE. · I move to strike out the first word. 

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. S:PluNGER). TheCha.irisof'opinion that the 

gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS] is entitled to the floor. 

Mr. WIL'LIS. I ask for a vote on the amendment. 

The CHAI.Rl\IAN (?tfr. SPRINGER). ·The pending motion is that 

submitted by the gentleman from Kentucky [l\lr. WmTE], to strike 

out the last word. 

Mr. SPOONER. If I may be permitted to say a word I would re- mark if the chairman of the Committee on Rivers and Harbors would 

be a. little more liberal I think we would get along faster. I have no wish to delay the committee in getting along with the bill. · Mr. GIBSON. If the gentleman from Rhode Island does not *ish 

to delay the committee in getting along with the bill, why does he delay it with this quarrel between two States as to which has most population or wealth or business? What has that to do with this bill? 

Mr. SPOONER. I was trying to illustrate wnat I believe to be the 

fact, that the Committee on Rivers and Harbors was not properly informed or was misinformed as to the condition of different sections of 

the country. . · · 

Seveml members called for the rCe,aular order. 

The question being taken on the amendment of Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky, it w~ not agreed to. 

Mr. WILLIS. I ask the Clerk to proceed with the reading of the 

bill. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move to strike out the last word, and 

yield my time to the gentleman from Rhode Island [Mr. SPOONER]. 

Mr. SPOONER. I rise to oppose the amendment .. !fr. WILLIS. If the ·gentleman says that he rises in good faith to 

oppose the amendment, I have n!)thing to say. . Mr. REED, of :Maine, I do not think that any question ought to be 

r;rised here as to the good faith of a member, except by a full committee. (Laughter.] . ·. The question was taken on t.he amendment proposOO. by ?t!r. WliiTJI;, 

of Kentucky, and it was disagreed to. 

The Clerk read the next paragraph of the bill, as follows: · 

Improving harbor at Nantucket, Mass.: Continuing improvement, $20,000. 

Mr. SPOONER. As I was remarking, the"value of all the live-stock on the flH'ms in Texas is $60,307,987, being less than. twenty-seven times 

the value of the live-stock on Rhode Island·fa.rms, althouglt Texas is 

more than two hundred and forty-one times larger than RhodAL,Island, 

t}le va:Iueofthe live-stock on all the farms in Rhodelsland~unting 

to $2,254,142. Or, to state it in another manner, the average value of 

live-stock on each Rhode Island flH'ni is just about two and a half times 

greater than the a'!erage value of live-stock on each Texas farm. 

But let us refer to those interests which come a little nearer the subject-matter of this bill . . The total exports of cattle, sheep, and swine, 

from all the customs districts of Texas, in 1880, amounted in value to 

$418,552. And yet the great lines of steamers which ply: back and 

forth from the city of Providence carry loads of merchandise daily 

greater in value than that total annual export.from Texas. 

1\fr. OCHILTREE. Will the gentleman from Rhode-Island allow me to interrupt him? 

Mr. SPOONER. Yes, sir. . Mr. OCHILTREE. Do you claim the exports from all the customs 

districts in Texas amount to only the sum you have named? 

Mr. SPOONER. I speak now of the exports of cattle; sheep, and 

swine only, which represent the great industry ofTexas. 

FISHERIES. 

·In . the fisheries in T~.xas 60!' persons were employed; in Rhode 

Island, 2,310. The value oftheannualproductin Texas wa.s$128,300; 

in Rhode Island, $880,915; that is to say, with her great line of sea- coast as compared with that of the State of Rhode Island, the total 

value ef the product of the fisheries in T~xas was only about one-sev- enth the value of those in Rhode Island, and the yalue of the same per 

capita to the persons employed less than four-sevenths in Te~ of what 

The CHAIRMAN it was in Rhode Island. (1\Ir. S}:>RINGER). The· Chair is of opinion this 

cannot be done except byunanimous consent. The Chair h~ had the ML~FACTURES. 

rule read and it is to be executed in its spirit. I now come to thoseindustriesinii13own State, towhich I may refer 

Mr. WIDTE, of Kentucky. I will occupy the floor in my time. with just pride. From an unwilling soil the prudent and indastiious 

llr. BE.LFORD. That is a greater infliction than the other. farmers of Rhode Island have wrung such fu.vornble results as I have 

1\Ir. WHITE, of Kentucky. It is very evident, 1\!r. Chairman, the indicated as the ·.fruits of intelligent, thrifty agriculture; from her inclause under consideration proposes a Splall part of what is recom- land waters and the stormy Atlantic her hardy, venturesome :fishermen 

mended by the Engineer· Department. The committee recommends have· gathered comfortable support, competence, or fortune; her com- $5,000. I call attention to the report of the engineers on page 522, in meree haBsailed on everyseaand toeveryclime; hersonshaveachieved 

which it if} stated that the amount that can be profitably expended.in success and 1\,ttained prosperity in every direction where intelligence, 

the fiscal year ending .June 30, 1866, is 16,000: It is estimated that enterprise, and indomitable perseverance could carry them, and despite 

it will require $85,000 to complete this. project. Now, sir, at the rate unpropitious circumstances have erected within her narrow boundaries 

of $5,000 a year it must be clear to this committee and to the country a State great in the magnitude of her varied interests and diversified as well that you will keep the ·Engineer Corps there,. you will reqn.ire indUstries. In manufactures Rhode Island stands pre-eminent. Althe machinery to remain there seventeen years to complete that project; though, by the census of 1880, Texas appears to have had 2, 996 man- when by the appropriation recommended by the Chief of Engineers it ufacturingestablishmentsandRhodeislandonly2,205, the total capital can be completed in :five years, and your-corps of engineers then can be invested therein in Texas was less than one-eighth of the capital so inwithdrawn and put on some other work and this expenditure stopped. vested in Rhode Island, and the value of the total annual products 

It is-no economy to dribble out thesEt expenditures in this manner. thereof less than one-fifth in Texas of the value of the same in Rhode 

It is only worthy of the Democratic party, which for seventy years said Island, while the wages paid in all such establishments in Texas 

that appropriations for internal improvements are uriconstitutiona.l, amounted to less than one-sixth of such wages in Rhode Island. 

COTTON MANUFACI'ORES. 

· Rhode Island is the second cott:on-manufacturingStatein the Unio~­

second only to Massachusetts-with an invested capital therein, in 1880, of upward of $28,000,000, being more than three times the amount of 

the total capital of all the manufacturing establishments of Texas; paying annual wages therein of nearly five and a halfmilliofts of dollars; 

with an annual product of the value of nearly $23,000,000, and of greater 

value than the entire products of all the manufactures of Texas; em- ploying more than; one and t~ee-quarter million spindles and ~nsuming more than 81;?00,000 pounds of cotton annually. 

SHIPPING. 

and then went to Chicago in 1884 and declared in their platform that - they were in favor of appropriations for improving the Mississippi and 

the other great water ways. If this is not a great water way, strike it 

out and do not appropriate a dollar; Butifitis agreatwater way, then 

appropriate enough to keep the work going on rapidly with a view to 

its early completion. It will.cost $85,000 to complete this work, and 

at the rate of $5,000 a year, as recommended by the committee, it will 

take seventeen 'years to complete it; but if the engineers are correct in 

their estimates that $16,000 can be used wisely, economically, profitably in the next fiscal year, then, I say, it is niggardly in us to refuse. 

to appropriate the money. I therefore liope that the · amount will be 

increased to that which is recommended by the Corps of Engineers. 

Mr. SPOONER. Mr. Chairman, I rise to oppose the amendment. 

:Mr •. WILLIS. 1\!r. Chairman, unless the gentleman from RhOde 

I land [Mr. SPOONER] really intends to oppose the amendment I shall 

object to his taking·the floor. 

?tlr . . SPOONER. 1\Ir. Chairman, I hope this .interruption will not come out of my time. 

Mr. WILLIS. · I rise to oppose the amendment in good faith. If 

the gentleman from Rhode Island [Mr. SPOONER] rises with the same purpose he is entitled·to the floor. 

Rhode Island, in 1880, had a larger number of sail vessels than Texas, with a. tonnage more than double that of Texas; she had twice the num- ber of steamers that Texas had, with a total tonnage nearly-five times . greater; and her commerce and commercial interests. far exceeded those 

not only of Texas, but of many of the States which receive.very much 

larger consideration in this bill. 

I am not seeking to make any invidious comparisons, and -I regret 

the necessity which has compelled me to draw attention to these statistical facts, so suggesti~e in their proper applica,tion. They illus- trate the merits of the respective claims for just and reasonable appropriations by this bill, based, as all such claims shonld be, upon the 

material business and commercial interests in whose behalf alone they ean properly be demanded. 

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. SPRINGER). The gentleman from Rhode 

Island stated that he desired to oppose the amendment, and therefore 

he was recognized; otherwise he would not have been recognized. If 

he says now that he does not intend to oppose the amendment, the 

Chair w:il:l be compelled to recognize some other gentleman. I do the committee the justice to believe that if they had known and 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-HOUSE. 1303 

appreciated thffie facts, which, with their proper deductions, I t\m attempting to impr~ upon them, as thoroughly as they understood the 

requirements in their own States, they would not have brought in this 

incongruous bill, nor recommended such grossly disproportionate appropriations as it contains. I have no design to draw any comparison 

unfavorable to the State of Texas; my attention was specially directed 

to that State by reason of the reference of the gentleman [Mr. REAGAN] 

to Rhode Island, and on account of the enormous appropriation proposed by this bill for the harbor of Galveston, so disproportionate to 

the existing commerce of that port. I might have illustrated the same argume:n.t by reference to other equally suggestive statistics. 

The last official report shows that of a)l the States in the Union but 

sixteen had a larger number ofvessels, June 30,J.884, than Rhode Island; and that even among those sixteen there were three States ea-ch 

of which, although credited with a larger number of vessels than Rhode 

Island, was her inferior in total tonnage; and, which may seem more surprising, that of the fon.rteen States represented on the committee 

which reported this bill there are six neither of which had half as many 

vessels nor half the amount of total tonnage which Rhode Island possessed, and two of the six States last referreq to appear to have had no 

vessels whatsoever. 

The foreign commerce of Providence is not large; it is very small in 

comparison with her domestic commerce. Yet I find that in the last 

fiscal year the duties collected on. imports at Galveston ~ounted to 

only four-fifths of the amount collected at Providence; at Savannah and 

Mobile, respectively, less than one-third as much as at ProVidence, and 

at Charleston but one-fifth as much. Indeed, in only two ·customs districts or ports south of Baltimore, namely, at New Orleans and Key 

West, was so large. an amount of such duties collected as at Pro~dence. 

I fear that many of' you gentlemen from other States but little appreciate the magnitude of our varied interests, of which our commerce 

forms no ~i:fi.cant part. 

Not only my own State, but all Central New England, is largely dependent upon that great channel of ~mmerce, through Narraganset 

Bay and ProvidenCe River to the narbor of Providence for the p>nvenient and economical receipt of those vast supplies which their pe~ple 

and their manufacturing industries consume and for exporting their 

immense manufactured products. By reference to the latest available statisti~ I find that during the year 1883 the number of vessels arriving at and sailing from the port of Providence was 17,104, with a total 

tonnage of 4;522, 768 tons, and transporting 1,539,554 tons of freight and 

549,711 passe~ers, including in the freight brought during that year to 

said port 952,747tons of coal, 1,3,.14,565 bushels of grain, 4,676 barrels 

of flour, 38,860 bales of wool, and 221,897 bales of cotton-more than 

three times as much cotton as was shipped from Mobile by vessels during the year 1884. · Regular lines of steamers run between Providence and New York, 

Philadelphia, Norfolk, and Baltimore, transporting great quantities of 

freight, and a portion of them conveying many thousands of passengers 

annually-through that great artery of commerce and of .inland intercommunication extendtng from Providence to the ocean: The project forth~ improvement of that great water way is of national importance; . and its progress and completion, to secure safe and sufficient facilities 

for the commerce which seeks that route, demand the earnest and con- siderate attention of Congress. 

I trust that this and the other important river and harbor improvements in Rhode Island, as well as throughout the country, may receive 

jus£ recognition; that., by proper amendments, the monstrous inequalities of this bill m~y be corrected, and that we may be able to finally 

complete and pass a river and harbor appropriation bill which will 

commend itself to our own good judgment and to the intelligent judgment of the country. 

I will print in the REOORD a few statistics, presenting in a comprehensive form some of the fa-cts ancl :fi.gwes to which I have referred, and 

illustrative of the suggestions I have attempted tO impress upon the 

committee and the House: 

!acts from the census of 1880 and otlwr ojJiciai sou1·ces. 

In Texas. 

AREA, POPULATION, ETC. 

~~~ti~~~.~-.~~~~:::::::::::~::::::::::::::::: :::::::: 1 1, ~i: ~:: Assessed valne of all real estat-e .................. :.. $205, 508,924 00 Ave\'age value per square mile...................... $783 00 

AGRICULTURAL . • 

Persons engaged in agriculture .................... . Number of farms ....... : ................................. .. Total acres in farms .......................... : ...•........ Average number of acres 'in each farm ........ . Totu.l acres of improved land in farms .......... . Average num~ of acres of improved land 

in each farm ............................................... . Total value of farms* .................................... . Average-value of each Carm. ......................... . Value of farm productions ............................ . Value of live-stock on Carms t ....................... . 

3591317 

174.,184 

36,292,219 208 

·12, 650, 314 

72 

$170,468~ ~ 

S65, 204, 329 ()() 860, 307, 987 00 

In Rhode Island. 

1 085 

276:531 $188, 224, 459 00 173,478 ()() 

10,945 

6,216 

514,813 82 

298,486 

48 

$20, 882, 079 00 U,162 oo 83, 670, 135 ()() 

$2,254, 142 00 

Facts from the census of 1880 and oth;,. officjai sources.:COntinued.~ ~:..) 

In Texas. In Rhode Island. 

FISHERIES. 

Persons employed ........................................ .. Value of annual product ............................... . 

JIL\.YUFAOTUR'ES. 

601 

$128,300 00 

Number of establishments.............................. 2, 996 

Total capital................................................... $9,245,561 00 Annual wages paid......................................... $3,343,087 00 Value of annual product.. ............... _............... ·$20, 719,928 00 

COTTO!< MANUFACTURES. 

2,310 

$880,915' 00 

2,205 

875, 575, 943 00 

$21, 355, 619 00 

$.04, 163,621 00 

Capital inve ted ....................... ~............................................... $28,0(7,331 00 Spindles employed........................................ .................. ........ 1, 764,569 

Cotton annually consumed .............. pounds... .......................... 81,137,172 

X~nu:a~~~~s~~~;e~~ti~e~::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 81~: ~: ~ ~ V~ue of annual product ............... "............... ........................... 52:t 875, ill 00 

SHIPPING. 

Number of steamers, 1880 .............................. . Tonnage of same, 1880 .......................... tons ... N~ber of sail vessels, 1880 ........................... . Tonnage of same,1880 .......................... tons .. . Total vessels, June 30,1884 ............................. . Total tonnage, June :J9,1884 ................... tons .. . 

!~"TERN AL REVEr>."UE. 

Total !lii\OUnt collect-ed from 1866 to 1884, in35 4,351. 91 

.230 

7,712.50 267 10,802.00 

clusive......................................................... $11,152,276 56 Total amount collected fl'om 1863 to 1884, inclusive......................................................... $11,152,276 56 

Amount collected in year 1880 ................. ...... $233, 106 55 Same, being per capita upon basis of popu- · lation of ........................................... cents... 14.6 

70 

21,486.52 241 16,587.91 

291 

41,499.35 

$20, 800, 562 86 

827.925,262 73 S210,883 98 

76.2 

*The total value of farms in Texas is-nearly 83 per c~mt.ofthe assessed value 

of aU real estate in Texas; the total valne of farms in Rhode Island is less than 

14 ~r cent. of the assessed value of her reaJ. estate. · t The live-stock on each Rhode Island farm is, on an average, about two and 

one-half times the value of the live-stock on each Texas farm. 

Commercial. 

ton. nab. . ton. dence •. At Charles- At Sa.van- IA..t Mobile. At Galves- At Provi· 

--------------1---- Total duties collectedon imports, 

year ending June 

SQ,1884. .................. . 

Vessels arrived and 

sailed, one year, number ................ . Tobnage of same, ·tons ..................... .. 

29,4';5 42 

1,034 

602,235 

$56,409 85 $50,138 74 $151, 85.5 41 $189, 864 61 

' 1,080 

1,066,601 279,301 

l7,10oi 

4.,52S, 768 

Cotton received at Mobile from all sources, both by rail and water, during 

year, 260,911.bales; tota.l ·cotton shipped from Mobile by vessels during year, 73,920bales; total cotton received at Providence by vessels during year, 221,897 

bales'. . • . In each case the year for which the latest statistics were available, being 1883 or 1884, or. the year embracing a. portion• or both said years, is referred to. . 

Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I understand that the gentleman 

from Rhode Island has the floor. Am I correct iri that? 

The C~MAN (Mr. SPRINGER). The gentleman from Rhode Isl· 

and rose to speak to an amendment which he had p'oposed, and the 

Chaii decided that he must confine his remarks to the subject-matter 

before the committee. 

Mr. CANNON. Very well. Then, as I understand it, all the Chair can say to the gentleman from Rhode Island uniler the rule is that he 

shall proceed in order. 

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. SPRINGER). Yes. 

Mr. CANNON. .Ai; to whetherthegentleman'sremarks are apt and 

proper, .the Chair of course can not rule on that question. . · The CHAIRMAN (Mr. SPRINGER). TheChaii:hasdecided that the 

gentleman from Rhode Island [Mr. SPOONER] must confine himself to 

the subject under consideration. 

Mr. CANNON. That is, that he must proceed in order; but I suppose the gentleman from Rhode Island is to judge whether his remarks 

are in order. 

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. SPRINGER). The Chair must decide whether 

the gentleman is in order or not. The gentleman from Rhode Island 

[Mr. SPOONER] will proceed in order. 

Mr. SPOONER. Mr. Chairman, what I have said by way of com- parison between my own State and the State of Texas, and of the ap· 

propriations made for each, is what might be said of almost all appropriations proposed to be made by this b.tll for improvements in the New 

England States, as compared with those for other -sections of the country represented largely upon this floor by the members of the Committee on Rivers and Harbors. Let me give, in illustrationofthis,somecommercial statisti~. 

--- ... _ 
l 

1304 CONGRESSIONAL~ RECORD--· HOUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

.., . The CHAIR A.....~ (Mr. SPRINGER). The Chair is of opinion that amendment to an amendment shall be withdrawn by the mover thereof unle s the gentleman is not conforming to- the rule-no~ discussing the ques- by the unanimous consent of the committee. . 

tion before the committee. That question is in reference to the im- Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Now, 1\Ir. Chairman, I submit tha.t under 

provement of the harbor of N ~ntucket, and the Chair is willing to hear that rule the gentlem:m from Rhode Island must either confine himself 

the gentleman from Rhod-e Island on his amendment. But, as the to the discussion of the amendment in relation to this Nantucket impoint of orde1· has been made, the Chair .must insist that the gentleman provement or else yield the floor. 

hall proceed in order. The CHAIRl\IAN (Mr. SPRINGER). The Chair is of opinion that the 

!fir. CANNON. :Mr: Chairman, I rise to a question of order. gentleman must be allowed :five minutes to explain any amendment that 

The CJiiAIRUAN (l\Ir. SPRIXGER). The gentleman will state his he may offer, but thaM,o be in order tinder the rule his remarks should 

point of order. be d..ifeeted to the paragraph under consideration. The Chair is awru:·e ·Mr. CAl~ ON. If I unde1-stand the ruling of the Chair., no member that discussions have been f.r:equently allowed on motions to strike out 

can proceed in dis.cussion of a motion here unless his line. of discussion the la t word, but such discussions, to be in order, must be upon the 

conforms to the judgment of the Cbalr. subject-ll}atter before the committee at the time. The gentlema,nfrom 

The CHAIRl\IAN (Mr. SPRINGER). What is the point of order that Rhode Island is proceeding to discuss mattel'S which are not before the 

the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. CANNO~] makes? committee at this time, and the Chair therefore thinks the point of order 

Mr. CANNON. I am trying to find out whether I underst~nd the well taken. 

ruling of the Chair. I ·unaerstand the Chai:r to hold tha.tbeis to judge M:r: SPOONER. I shall not objeet to· the ruling, :Mr. Chairman, if 

of whether a gentleman is proceeding ~n order and confining himself to it is applied with the same force to other me~ber~. . So far it has not 

the amendment before the House. been. 

The.CII..A.m:MAN (~Ir. SPRINGER). Does the gentleman from Illi- The question being takl}n on the amendment of :Mr .. SPOO~ER, it was . nois rise to a p:uliamentaq inquiry or to a question of order? If he not agreed to. 

rises to a parliamentary inquiry, he will please state it.· . The Clerk 1·ead a,s !ollows: ~II·. CANNON. I want to :find out the scope of the 1ling of the 

Chair. . 

Improving harbor a.tNewburyport,)la . : Continuing improvement,~,()()(). 

Mr. LONG. I m(n·e to amend by inserting after the clause just read 

the following: 

Improving harbor at Hingham, Mass.: Continuing improvement, $6,000. 

The CHAIRMA.i. {Mr. SPRIXGEn.). The Chair is of opinion that a point of order must be submitted in the first instance to the'decision of 

the Chair; but.it is in the power of the Committee of the Whole, upon 

an appeal, to reverse that; decision. The Chair 1.$ of opinion that the Mr. Chairman, I trust that'this amendment, being a substantial one, 

gentleman: occupying the floor must speak to the clause now before the, will not. be considered out of order. At the last session Congress or- committee, 'and unless he does so he is out of order. dered a survey of Hingham Harbor .with 1·e!erence to the continuation 

Mr. SPOONER. Do I lmderstand the Chair to 1·ule that I am not of the improvements there. The report of the engineers was made as permitted by way of illustration to. draw a comparison as between cer: . promptly as possible, but did not reach this House until the day on 

tain ports, or certain ections of this cOuntry, or certain SWJ:es, in order . which the bill now pending was reported. The improvements neces- to point the significance of my remarks? · · sary in the channel are a continuation of the removal of shingle and 

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. SPRIXGER). · ·.The Chair will say to the gen- gravel, a continuation of certain dredging, and a continuation of theretleman. ftom Rhode Island that if _he will, in good faith; state to th~ moval of certain ledges, at an estimated cost of some $18,.000, with the 

committee that he intends this line of discussion for the purpose of ~ffect ofrelieving a transportation which. involves the carriage of hunillustrating his remarks in regard to this clause he will be in order, dreds of thousa.nds of passengers and large quantities of freight. 

and the Chair will hear him to that extent. , . . The engineer report~ that the further improvement will be of great ·lflr. SPOO~ ER. Why should I alone be required to allege good benefit and will require a comparatively small expenditure, and· that in ··faith? · . his op~ion the harbor is worthy of improvement. Itakeitthatifthis 

,; :Mr. REEDJ of Maine. l object to the ruling of the Chair that the report had come to the committee before this bill had been reported .gentleman from Rhode Island must make a declaration of his good there would have been no hesitation whatever in reporting a. certain 

faith. · · portion of the amount recommended by the engineers. This is not a The CHAIRM.A.L~ (.Mr. SPRL'\GER). The gentleman from l\Iaine..has question which I propose to argue. It is not a~ in which I propose 

not the floor unless he rises to a. question of order. . · to solicit anything from the committee. I simply submit this to the 

Mr. REED, of':Maine. I do rise to a question of order. · House as a perfectly proper case for the amendment of the bHl, and I 

' The CHAIRMAN (Mr. SPRINGER). The_gentleman will state 1r. do not believe the committee will oppose the proposition. This antendMr. REED, of 1\'laine. l\Iy point is that the chairman of ~he Com- ment contemplates an appropriation of one-third of the snm recom., -mittee of the Whole has not the right to require a gentleman on ~his mended by the engineers. · . · ;:fl()(}1 to ma'ke a statement in regard to his good faith. _ • That is pre- · Mr. WILLIS. This amendment is for a hatbor upon which at the 

sUDled. . time the committee was not in session and there was no report. ThereThe CHAIRMAN (Mr. SPRHIGER). If the gentleman does not de- forethatcommitteehaveneverconsidered thisimprovement. Wehave 

sire to · make the statement the· Chair will not insist upon it. The not condemned it, nor do I know they·have approved it. It is like one 

Chair believes tl1e Committee of the Whole will certainly bear him out hundred and thirty or one hundred and forty other i,-nprovements for 

in holding that the gentleman from Rhode Island is not proceeding in . which surveys have been asked ~nd reports made, but except in the 

order. If the Committee of the Whole-were compelled to be subject to case of one or two they have not been bi·ought before the Committee on proceedings of this ·kind, all possibility of ever terminating business in Rivers and Harbors. · 

Committee of the Whole would be at an end. Therefore the Chair In my State of Kentucky I may say there were th.,ree or four repo11'B, .thinks the gentleman ought to con:finehimselftothesubjectunder con- but the committee det~rmined in_view of the shortness of time they 

siderntion; and in asking }1im to do so the Chair believes he is dis- would not consider them, although, unlike this, they were before the 

charging his dt!ty a chairman of the Committee of the Whole. If the committee. The committee expect at its next session to take up all 

gentleman from nhode Island desires to proceed in order the Chair these reports, when they will have time to consider the facts npon which 

. will hear him. they are based. · . • · During tht? deliverr of Mr. POOSER's remarks, the following pro- I ask tb.e gEfntleman to consider that thesQreportshave not been beceedings occurred: fore the committee, and to wait until they can come up in their order, 

1\:fr. SPOONER. I inove to strike out the last word. when the comn;littee will have full time to act upon them. 

:Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Mr. Chairman, I rise to a point of order. Mr. LONG. I recognize the position in which the committee are The CHAIRMAN (1\fr. SPRINGER). The gentleman will state it. placed as-stated by the chairman. If this were a personal matter I 

lfli. BRECKINRIDGE. The point is this: This paragmph provides would not hesitate to withdraw my request, but this is a matter affectfor an improvement which is located in the State of Massachusetts, ing the interests of the constituency I represent. To them it is a queswhile the gentleman from Rhode Island is giving us a dissertation on tioil of having an improvement made now, as it ought to be, or waiting 

the State of Rhode Island. He is not speaking to the proposition be- a year and a half. It is not their fault that the report of the engineer 

fore the House, and therefore is not in order. · was not in sooner. It is not their fault that this provision was not in 

l\Ir. BAYNE. Mr. Chairman, X think the committee will get through the bill when originally reported. I should not do my. duty to them sooner by permitting the gentleman from Rhode Island to proceed. if I did not ask the House on the recommendation of the engineer who 

:Mr. SPOONER. I shall e,;Ideavor to be heard before we get through was charged to make the survey and report and who has reported fawith the bill, whether at this stage or at some other. [Laughter.] vorably, to embody his report in legislation. 

The CHAIRML~ (Ur. SPRINGER). The Chair will ask the Clerk to I appreciate the fact the committee has not had.time to consider this 

reacl clause 5 of Rule XXIIT. matter, but yet this report has been before the Honse and committee 

The CleTk read as follows: since the 20th of January last. If the committee are 1mabl~ to deter· 

When general debate is closed by order of the House, any member shall be mine a little petty matter o:f ~ kind, certainly the House are able. 

allowed five minntes to explain any amendment he may offer, after which the .A.s I said before, I do not propose to a1·gue the matter O.t; t.ease the 

member who shall fu-st obtain the floor shall be allowed to speak five minutes committee or House, but simply to present the matter to the co:ilsider- 1n opposition to it, and there shall be no further debate thereon; but the same ti f th H privilege' -of debate shall be allowed in favor of and against any amendment a on 0 e ouse. that may be offered to an amendment; and neither an amendment nor an Mr. WILLIS. Just one word. In the last river and harbor bill all 

_ -- ... 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1305 

surveys were submitted to the Chief of Engineers to state as .to whether 

they were · worthy of improvement, and consequently whether they were of_public necessity. Now, this report has not been before our committee at alL There are one hundreda.n~ fortyotherswhichaTe in 

the same position, and upon the hasty examination I have made at this 

moment I find the condition upon which appropnations were to be made are riot fulfilled in this case. The engineer, Major Raymond, in his 

report-it is a part of Boston Harbor-says there is a channel which is 

used by quite a number of vessels. It has been much improved bythe 

United States. The further improvement desired will _probably be a great benefit and reqUire but. comyaratively a small expenditure. I am of opinion the harbor is worthj of improvement. But he does not 

say that it is of public necessity. Those two conditions were required 

of all these surveys. · So this is a matter whicli has not only not been before· the committee, but had it been before the committee it would not have come up to the measure prescribed by the House for all_ similar improvements, that they· should not only be worthy of improvement, but they should be a public necessity. It only illustrates the necessity of having time to look 

into all these matters. 

:Ur. LONG I leave it to the House. 

The committee diVided; and there were-aye 71 , noe 'Gl. 

So the amendment was adopted. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Improving national harbor of refuge at Saudy Bay, :i\Ia8sachusetts : Continning improvement, $100,000. 

1\Ir. OATES. I move to strike that out. 

Mr. GIBSON. I hope the gentleman will withhold his motion until 

the report from the Committee on Rivers and Harbors can be made. 

Mr. OATES. I will withhold my motion, trhen, !or that ·purpose, l;mt with the understanding I shall make it again if I need it. 

' Mr. STONE. I ~ifer the follow~g substitute for the paragraph 

which has b~n read, and I do it l;>y instruct.ion of the Coll}mittee on Rive:{S and Harbors. 

The Clerk read as fo1lows: 

Improving national harbor of refuge-of first class at Sanely Bay, Cape .Ann, 

1\olassachusetts, $100,000: Pro'l}ided, That no part of this ap})ropriation or any pre- vious appropriation shall be expended until a. new board of three engineers, one of whom shall. be a resident engineer of the district, to be detailed immediately by the Secretary of,Var, shall decide that this point is the best location on the coast for sncb a harbor that shall serve all the uses for which it may be ne~ded 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I rise to a question of order. 

The CHAIRl\UN (Mr. H.A~DION'D ). The gentleman from Ala bam~ 

is entitled to the floor. 

:1.\-Ir. WHI'.rE, of Kentucky. -.But I 1·ise to a question of oruer. • The CH.A..IRMAN. The gentleman will state it.· ltfr. WHITE, of Ken~cky. I ha~e watched the reading of this bill 

with a view to offering an amendment when Plymouth Harbor was reached, but I . think it must have been overlooked, for I certainly did 

not hear the reading by the Clerk. . The CH:A.IRMAN.. The Chair will state that the Clerk read the lines 

in which Plymouth occurs, and no -point was made by any one, after 

which th~ next lines.. were read by the Clerk until he 1·eached line 36, 

when the gentleman from Alabama moved to strike out lines 33, 34, and 35, and yielded to have read this proposition of the gentleman. from 

Massachusetts, and the gentleman from Alabama is entitled to the floor. 

l,Ir. OATES. Mr. Chairman, I think the amendment offered bythe 

gentleman from 1\Iassachusetts is wholly unnecessary. I am in favor 

of liberal and reasonable appropriations to improve tlle water ways of 

this country, but I am not in favor of Congress embarking in the ex- penditure of .money for any improvement which has been condemned 

by a board of engineers. 

Under the previous action of Congress a board of engineers was appointed,·who made a survey and estimates, and have1·eported upon the 

practicability and probable cost .of the proposed improvement at this · point. Their. report is so full and conclusive that I prefer the board of 

engineers to speak to this question rather than myself, and I ask the 

Clerk to read what I have marked touchlng that matter. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

It may be well here to state what the board understands by the expression "national hat·bor of refuge of the first cla.s ." It, may be defined to be an artificial harbor. prepared at the expense of the General Government, capable of 

affording refuge and shelter to a large number of vessels, great and small, at t be same time, this refuge and shelter referring to danger. from storms, actual or impending, as well as from hostile ships in time of war. Such a harbor of refuge should be easy of entrance at all states of tbe wind and tide byniJ?ht as well as by day; should have sufficient depth and area at all 

tages of the ttde; should be free from the hurtful action of strong winds and currents and of ice ; should have a good holding-ground, and be readily defended 

from hostile ships. · Very great d epth is not only not necessary, but is undesirable, as xequiring vessels to h ave very long cables and to take more time in coming to anchor and 

departing, as well as more room for swinging at anchor. Room is needed in a. harbor not only for vessels quietly at anchor, but for those entering in the con- fusion and tumult of a gale to find a pla<ie among others already within. The 

!"peed of such vessels can not be checked in a moment. Great artificial harbors 

of refuge, such as here described, are very few in the world, and, it ma.y be added, 

very expensive to construct. The impo.rtance of such a harbor is greatly en- hanced if it be at or near a. great commercial center. . · These being in our view the .essential features of any harbor that may be pt'op- erly designated "a national harbor of refuge of the first class," it may be said at onoe that considering the present defenseless condition of the natural harbors 

in which our coasts abound, and the exposure of our navy-yards and our great maritime centers of commerce to the assaults of an enemy's fleet, it is wholly useless to construct an artificial harbor anywhere if its defensibility against a foreign enemy is to be regarded as one of its requisites. - It is not to be supposed that a fleet would require a refuge from an enemy. A 

single ship might need such a. place of retreat near Cape Ann, and this could be 

readily afforded by the existing harbor of Gloucester to the northwest of Boston, as it would on the south at Provincetown. 

The Navy of the United States does not at this time require much space for its 

accommodation. Ifthe number of ships be increased they will be steamers, and 

could readily be accommodated in the harborsofBoston, Portland,<>rPro'\incetown, should it be deemed best to withdraw ~hem from the open sea. Leaving, then , the question of defense out of consideration, we shall discuss 

the proposed harbor oriJy with regard to its value as a place of refuge during storms. . Harbors of r efuge are more importa nt for sailing vessels than· for steame1"8, as the latter are more navigable under the varying conaitions of winds and' cur- rents. And this consideration is becoming of more. importance every year, as the commerce of the world is more and more carried on by steam. As the steam- ers are more independent in movement as well as usually more quick, it would 

appear that a number of smaller h a rbors of refuge nearer toget-her, the total cost being the same, would be more useful than one great one, as the former 

would be more convenient to the slower sailing vessels that happened to be 

caught by bad weather in their vieinily. · It must not be supposed that all wrecks woultl be prevented, if harbors of ref-

\tge, great and Sll;)all, were numerous. Nor is it probable that. such harbors 

would be used by all vessels, either steamers or sailers, as some, perhaps many, would prefer to go to sea. rather than enter t.hem. Insufficient (!rewa and equipage and bad management will cause. many wrecks to occur, notwithstanding tlie existetlce of natural harbors· and the construction of artificial ones. An idea of the necessity of a harbor of refuge in any special locality may be 

obtained by examining the record of wrecks that have occurred In its vicinity and the consequent Joss of propert.y. . · Having made these general observations, let the ideas they involve be applied to the particula1· case tWder consideration, namely, the construction a t ~andy 

Bay of ·• a national harbor of refuge of the fil'st class." 1 

The project of l\Iajor Raymond, as contained in his report of November 28, 

1883, published in Senate Executive Document No. 74; Forty-eighth Congress, first session, bas been examined by the board with attention and great interest. He proposes to inclose an area of 1,664 acres inside the high-water line, while on the 24-foot contour the area would be 1,~77 acres. It-isest.imated that 70,000 vessels pass Cape .A.nn annually. This would be about 

6.000each month or200 each day. TheSe are almost all bound to or from Bost<>n; 

about halfeach·way, or aboutoue·hundredeach way each day. Vessels going froin Boston would seldom need a. harbor of refuge at Cape Ann, as precedenc~ 

would require them.lo refrain from leaving a. good and safe hal'borto risk the 

dangers of Cape Ann in a storm. lleavy storms seldom Gontinue more than t hreedays. It would seem sufficient, therefor~ , to provide for one hundred ves- sels approaching Boston on each of the three successive days, or three hundred 

'l"essel . Allowingoneandone-halfacresofanchorageground to each, we would 

need a harbor of but four b undred and fifty acres. · One and one-half acres for 

each is an ample allowance. · Few of these vessels would llavea draughtexceedibg fifteen feet. Toprovide, therefot·e, an area of five hundred acres with a depth at lowwater nowhere less . than thirty feet would be enough. The plan of Major Raymond is estimated by him t<> cost $1,0001

000 and to require ten years for its oompletion•with regular an- nual appropriations of$!00,000. It is thought by the board that the cost should 

be ~tat not less than· $5,000,<XX>, and to this should be added S500,<XX> for light- houses. buoys, &c., and not less than $2,000,000 for defenses, if they are to be con- sidered. . . It is not•probable, judging of the future from the past, t-hat $-iOO,()()() are to be 

appropriated each-year for this object. '!'he increase in the time ofcon11truction· would greatly add to the final cost of the work. . · An examination of a list of wrecks between the ports of B.ostan and Portland 

during the past fifty-five years, which has been furnished to th~ bOard_ and is 

supposed to be authentic, gives the following information: The total number. of wrecks in all these years has been Jess than 400. The vesselS wrecked were almost all of small-sized schooners. The least number reported in one year, IS31; was 1, and the greatest number was 40, in 1840. The average has been 7 or 8 per annum; a)ld of these some at least would not have been prevented by a harbor 

of refuge at Sandy Bay. It may not be inappropriate-also to compare \he aver- age annual loss with the interest on t4e total cost of such a harbor of refuge as is contemplated. · In. view of all the circumst.ances of the case, the board has reached the following conclusions: · It is not considered necessary or expedient at this time to construct "anational harbor of refuge of t.he first class" at any point " between Boston and 

.Portland.'' Should Congress decide otherwise, the board is of the opinion that 

Sandy Bay " is the best place " for such a. harbor between Boston and Portland. 

If Sandy Bay be occupied and the area. of the harbor be inade as great as pro- posed by Major Raymond the lines elected by him for the breakwater s~m 

the best. It is recommended that further study be given oy Major Raymond to the con- sideration of the practicability and cost of construction of a harbor of smaller area. at Sandy Bay, with a view mainly to a reduction of expense, and that in 

connection therewith he examine the question of constructing a smaller harbor at the southeast point of Cape Ann as well as the improvement of the harbor of 

Gloucester, which woUld be effected by a breakwater on the bar at its mouth. 

Should it be decided by the authorities in Washington that a. national harbor 

of refuge of the first class is to be made at Sandy Bay, it is considered that it 

would be inexpedient, with so small a sum as $100,000, to make any expenditure looking thereto except to commence the observations and studies which should 

precede the preparation of a d¥ailed project for so great, difficult, and costly a. work, and that actual construction should not b e commenced until the engineer had in hand at least $500,000. 

* * * * * * Second. If, as suggested by the board in their preliminary report, the idea of 

constructing "a national harbor of refuge of the first class " in this vicinity be 

abandoned on account of the useless expense which it would involve, and a. smaller harbor of refu~e for commercial ttses only be substituted the board a.r~ 

of the opinion that the mterest of commerce will be best subserved by the formation of an artificial harbor at the southeast point of Cape Ann, by constructing breakwaters from Thatcher's Island to Milk Island, and from each of these 

islands toward the shore, with suitable entrances. · . This would furnish anchorage in water from twelve to thirty-five feet deep for 

about one hundred and fifty vessels of the classes which :would most commonly make use of it, accord ~g to the allowance of one and one-half acres for each, 

given in the preliminary report of the board. · The estimated cost of this harbor, according t{) the views of the board, is about 

$1,000,000, which is abo}.lt one-fifth of tile amount which they estimated as the cost of the proposed harbor'at Sandy Bar. 

The special advantages which a harbor here would offer are: First. That the 

site is already well known to navigators, and is well marked and lighted by the 

Cape Ann or·I'hatcher's Island lights-two conspicuous lights of the first order. 

Second. That it is close to the track of 'l"essels passing along the New England 
1306 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

coast bound to and from Boston. Third. It would be safe and easy of ingress and egresa in all weathers.· Fourth. Even with o.ne breakwaterexten~g west- wardly· from Thatcher'" Island, cutting otf the most dangerous ~·which come from ~he northeast, val~ble refuge would be gained. 

Dilling the reading of the foregoing the hammer fell. 

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Alabama has 

ired . 

eiu LEWIS was recognized, and yielded his time to Mr. OATES. 

Mr: OATES. I now ask the clerk to continue the reading down to 

and including page 5, and. also on page 15. · Before the reading was concluded the hammer fell. 

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Alabama _has 

expired. · . Mr. OATES. I ask unanimous consent that the reading of wha~ I 

have marked of this report be concluded, as it will take but a few mm-

·utes longer. · . . . The CHAIRMAN. The rule does not allow the ChaiT to e~tertam 

such a motion. The Chair presnmeJ:! that there will pe no objection to 

the· gentleman printing the report as a part of his remarks. 

Mr. OATES. But this question will be voted upon in a few momenm, 

and if the report is not read prior to that time it will not be necessary 

to insert it. . . The CHAIRMAN. The question is on agreeing to the .amendment 

of the gentleman from Massachusetts. · Mr. BAYNE. I propose an amendment·to the amendment. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

It shall be the duty of said f?oard of engineers t~ examine into and report 

upon such other places upon SS.ld c:oast as may be SUitable for harbor purposes, and to estimate the cost thereof. 

Mr. STONE. I areept that amendment. 

Mr. REAGAN. I would su&:,aesi:to the gentleman to add the words 

''and the m}cessity therefor:'' 

Mr. BAYNE. I accept the suggestion of the gentleman from Texas, 

and will incorporate it m the amendment. 

Mr. STONE. Let the amendme]}t be read as modified. 

The merk read as follows: . . 

Improving a. national harbor of refuge of the first class !Jot Sandy ~aY: or Cape Ann Maasa.chuaetts, 8100 000: Provided, That no part of thts. approprumon 011 qf 

any previous appropriation shall be-exp-ended ·until a. new h?a.rd of three. en- ll'ineers one of whom sha.ll be the resident engineer of the distrtct, to be detailed 

linmedi'ately by the ·Secretary ofWar,shall decide that this point is thebe~t lc;>-

cationon the coast for such a. harbor that sha.l~ serve all of th~ uses for whtc~ 1t 

maybe nee<led; and itsha.ll be the duty of satd board of engmeers to .examme tnt~ and report upon such other places upon said coast as maY: be smtable for 

harbor purposes, and to estimate the cost thereof and the n.ecesstty therefor. 

Mr. OATES .. I would like to ask the gentleman from Pennsylvania 

a. question. · The CHAIRMAN. Debate is exhausted. 

Mr. POTTER. I move to strike out the last word. ~fr. BELFORD. I rise to a point of order. I insist that we have a right to know what is going on here. It is impossible in the co~fusion 

prevailing to bear a word. ~ . • . Mr. BAYNE. I believe! am entitled to the floor for five mmu.tes, 

since I have not occupied the tim.e on my am~ndment. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will recognize the gentleman. 

Mr. OATES. I desire to ask tlie gentleman from Pennsylvania if be 

bas observed in the report of the engineers that there is a difference between a harbor of the first class and such as that recommended at Cape Ann? . . . 

. l\fr. BAYNE. Yes, sir; I have ob erved the difference, and the proposition I have made, which bas been em bodied in the amendment of 

th& gentleman from 1tiassacbusetts, requires that board o~ engin~ers to 

make an examination along that coast and report the vanous pomts at 

which harbors may be constructed as well as the necel3Sity therefor 

and the cost thereof. · · 

1tlr. OATES. Bnt there is a distinction between a harbor of the first 

class und such as they say is necessary. They say an e~~nditure of 

$1 000 Ooo would be sufficient for the commercial purposes, whereas a har~r of the first claSs at Sandy Bay would cost eight or ten million 

dollars. 

Mr. BAYNE. ·I am opposed· to it on that account. . . Jltlr. CUTCHEON. I wish to ask the gentleman from Pennsylvama 

[Mr. BAYNE] a question. In the last ~use of his amendment do the 

words "the necessity therefor ?' r~late to the harbor at Sandy Bay or to all? 

Mr. BAYNE . . To all. • . . Mr. POTTER. In my judgment this expenditure, in the present 

state of the rivers and harbors of the country and of the defenses of the 

country can not be justified. It is proposed to make upon the shore 

of M~husetta, with the harbor of Boston upon one side within thirty 

· miles, with .the harbor of Portsmouth on tJ:te other side ~thin t~ 

or forty miles, and the harbor of Glouces~r JUSt around this very pomt 

and but five or six miles removed from it-it is proposed to enter upon an expenditure which the engineers tell us will-end in an outlay of 

eight or ten willions of dollars. And for what? In ·order to make a harbor of refuge. . 

Sir. there is far more demand for harbors for the living commerce of 

. 

the co11ntry. At the great_port.ofJS"ewYork there are but twenty-two 

feet of water upon the bar at low tide, over which two-~hirds of the commerce in question pf this country flows. To enter now upon this 

expenditure or to inke any step that can possibly lead to such an ex- penditure ought not to be permitted.. Why, sir, there is no spot upon 

the shore of this country that is so well provided with harbors as the 

shore of Massachusetts. . 

I certainly, .sir, can.not be charged with any partiality against Massachusetts. She is my native State; my kindred are there. I passed 

the first years of my professional life within fifteen miles of this proposed 

harbor, and I do not believe· it would have been thought of but for the 

fact that a .Representative from that district, loving his section and lov! 

ing the granite of his section and the interest of his section, bas dwelt 

upon this thing until bebascometo tbinkthatintbeinterestsofbenevolence, of a large world-wide charity, it would be wise to transfer these 

granite bowlders from these granite quarries and make this grea~ harbor 

of refuge on· the coast of Massachusetts. I have ');)een importuned re- cently to give my influence in favor of building this harbor in Ol"der that 

these granite quarries might be utilized. It will make ":ffidoubtedly 

this·district one of great activity. It will do more. !twill be a mon- ument to whoever can carry such a bill as this through .this House. 

But, sir, it will beamonumentofsometbing more mournful than that. 

Up to this time Massachusetts, I believ~, bas never asked a~ a:ppf?- . priation of the General Government for nvers and harbors which 1tdid 

not deserve. I do not believe that the Representatives of Massachusetts outside of this district will say that they believe this appropria.! 

tion ought to be made in the interests of commerce or in the present 

state of the country. . . 

The CHAIR~IAN. ·The time of the gentleman bas expired. 

Mr. ·MULDROW obtained the floor and yielded his time to 'Mr. 

OATES. 

Mr. OATES. Mr. Chairman, I ask for the reading of the Iatterportion of the report of the, engineers, which I have marked. 

The Clak resumed ·and concluded the reading as above. · The CHAIRUAN. The time of the gentleman from Alabama {Mr. 

OATES] bas expired andthegentlen:umfromMassachuse~ [Mr. STONE] 

is repognized. 

Mr. WILLIS. ~Ir. Chairman, .I ask the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. STONE] to yield to me in order that I may move that the 

committee do now rise. . 

Mr. STONE. Can we not finish this matter this evening? 

Several MEl'riBE.RS. Oh, no. · ·. 

· Mr. WILLIS. My object in moving that the committee do now rise 

is to ask the House to take a recess until 10o'clock to-morrow.- Ihav~ 

consulted as many members as I could consult conveniently and they seem to be generally willing that I should make that motion. With 

that view I .move that the committee do now !ise. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The committee accordingly rose.; and Mr. BLACKBURN having re- sumed the chair as Speaker pro tempore, Mr. li.A.MMOND reported that 

the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union bad, ac- cording to order, had under co~ideratio~ the bill (H. R. ~130) ma~g 

appropriations for the construction, repm.r, and preservation of certain 

public works on rivers and harbors, and for other purposes, and had come to no re olution thereon. 

ORDER OF BUSINES . 

Mr. WILLIS. I move that the House take a recess until 10o'clock 

to-morrow . 

Mr. MILLIKEN. Mr. Speaker, I rise to a. parliamentary inquiry. 

The SPEAKER pro tetnpore. The gentleman will staiie it. 

Mr. MILLIKEN. If we take a recess now until 10 o'clock to-mor- row will that continue this legislative day afber 12 o'clock to-morrow? 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. ~It will, unless the House should adjourn at some time before 12 o'clock to-morrow. · Mr. l\IIljLIKEN. So that we: shall lose tb~ hour which we would 

otherwise have under the rule. 

The SPEAKERpro.tempore. Unless the House should adjourn at some time between 10" and 12 to-morrow. . Mr. WILLIS. I will say to my friend from Maine [Mr. MILLIKEN] 

that if the House now take a recess until10 o'clock, I will make a mo- tion to adjourn before 12 o'clock to-morrow in order to save the morn- ing hour . . 

MEssAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT. . 

The SPEAKER pro temp()re. The Chair will recognize the gentle- man from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS] for his motion, but before submitting the motion the Chair asks consent to submit a. message from the 

President of the United ·States. 

To the &M.tc and House of Representatius: 

I herewith transmit a. communication from the Secretary of ·state relative to 

the Japanese Government's otf"er to donate a. valuable piece of land to the 

Un.it-ed States in fee-simple for legation purposes, and earnestly recommend that 

the Executive be immediately authorized to accept the ~tift .in the name of the 

United States and to tender to his Imperial Japanese Majesty's Government a suitable expr'ession of this Government's thanks for the generosity which 

prompted the presentation of so desirable a site of ground. 

I deem it unnecessary to enlarge upon t.he statement of the Secretary of State. I feel certain, however, that a persual of his communication will at once COlli.-
1885. OONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1307 

mend itself to the favorable attention of Congress, and doubt not that the neces- sary authorization of Congress will be immediately given for the acceptAnce of 

the gift WI well as insure early action looking t.o the erection on the premises of a. suitable J?Ubllo· building for the use of the legation of the United States at Tokio. This step can not but~ favorable to the United States in every honorable way, while the disinter~ted moti~es of a friendly foreign government deserves from us a proper Jlnd JUSt recogmtlon. CHESTER A. ~THUR. 

EXECUTIVE MANSION, 

Wcuhington, D. C. , February 5, 1885 • . 

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. 

By unanimous consent, leave of absence was granted to Mr. BoYLE, 

of Pennsylvani:l>, until :Monday, February 9. _ 

WITHDRAWAL OF PAPERS. 

On motion of Mr. ROSECRANS, leave was granted to George A. 

Ja.egar to withdraw his papers, now with th~ Committee on Military' 

Affairs, lea:viDg copies on file .. 

ORDER OF BUSINESS. 

1\Ir. WILLIS. Mr. Speaker, in response to inquiries of several mem- bers, I will say that if the motio~ for a recess prevails I .will agree to 

make a motion to adjourn just before 12 o'clock to-morrow, so as to save the morning hour. I now move that the House take 3. .recess until10 o'clock t.Q-morrow. morning. . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Kentucky [:rrir. 

WILLIS] moves that the House do now take a recess until 10 o'clock 

w-morrow, pending whiCh does tbe gentleman from Kentucky on the 

left [Mr. WmTE] renew his motion? 

Mr. TURNER, of Kentucky. Mr_Speaker, I move to adjourn. 

?tir. BLOUNT. Mr. Speaker, !wish tQ ascertain whether I correctly 

understood the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS] tQ say that if 

the House shonld now take a recess until10 o'clock to-morrow he would move an adjournment. before 12 o'clock to-morrow with a.. view of preserving the morning hour? . · ?tir. WILLIS.' The gentleman fmm Georgia understood me correctly. 

The question was taken on the motion of·Mr. TURNER, of Kentucky, 

to adjourn: 

The motion was not agreed to_. Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move to -amend the motion of my 

colleague [Mr. WILLIS) by striking out "10" and inserting "11. , Mr. RANDALL .. I wish to inquire whether the object of the gentleman from Kentucky (,M:r. WILLIS] is to continue this legfslativeday 

beyond 12 o'clock tO-morrow. 

The SPEAKER pro tempm·e. The gentleman from Kentucky has already stated that such is not his purpose. 

The question being taken on the amendment of Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky, tQ the motion of Mr. 'VILLIS, it was not agreed tQ; there being- a~ 13,·noes 149. · Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move that the House now adjourn. Th motion was not agreed to. . The question then recurring on the motion of 1tlr. WILLIS for are- cess, it was agreed to; and accordingly (at 5 o'clock and 10 ~inutes p. 

m.) the I_Iouse took a recess tilllO o'clock a. m. to-morrow. 

AFTER RECESS. 

:r'be recess having expired, the House reassembled at 10 o'clock a. m. (Friday, February 6), ],.Jr. BLACKBURN in the chair as Speaker pro 

tempore. · · 1\Ir. WILSON, of Iowa. Mr. Speaker, there are so few members 

present, I move that the House take a recess .for· ten minutes. 

The motion was agreed to; and a recess was accordingly taken. • The rece...~ )laving expired, the House resumed its sessi~n. 

RIVER AND HARBOR .APPROPRIATION BIL;L. 

1\Ir. WILLIS. I move that the House resolve itself into Committee 

of the :whole on. the state of the Union, and pending this motion I move that Q.ebate in Committee of' the Whole on the pending amendment be limited tQ twenty minutes. 

Mr. GIBSON. Twenty minutes on the section and pend.i.Dg amendment? 

Mr. WILLIS. I modify my motion so as tQ limit debate on the sec- tion and amendments tQ twenty minutes. 

The quest ion being taken on the motion to limit debate, it ·was agreed 

to. 

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question now recurs ot;t the motion 

of the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS] that the House reso1ve 

itself into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union. 

The motion was agreed to. · The House accordingly resolved itself int.Q the Committee of the 

Whole on the state of the Union (Mr. liAMMo:Nn in the chair), and 

resumed the consideration of the bill (H. R. 8130) making appropriations for the. construction,. repair, and preservation of certain public 

works on rivers and harbors, and for other purposes. 

The CHAIRM.A.l'i. The Clerk will read the pending amendnwnt. The Clerk read as follows: · 

Improving a. national harbor of refuge of the first class at Sandy Bay or Cape Ann, Massachusetts, $100,000: Provtded, That no part of this appropriation nor of any previon appropriation shall be expended until a new board of three engineers, one of}Vhom shall be the resident engineer of the district, to be detailed 

immediately by the Secretary of Wnr. shall decide that this point-is the best lo- ()S.tion on the coast for such a harbor, thatshallserve all the uses for which it may 

be needed; and it shall be the duty of said board of engineers to examine into 

and report upon such other places on said coast as inay be suitable for harbor purposes, and to estimate the cost thereorand the necessity for·such a harbor. 

Mr. WILLIS. Mr. Chairman, as this amendment will give rise tQ 

some debate, I ask in the interest of public business that it be passed over for an hour. The Honse will then be fuller. 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS] 

asks unanimous consent that the pending amendment to lines 33, 34, 

and 35 be passed over for one hour. 

1\Ir. IlEPBURN. I object. :ur. WILLIS. I hope my friend will not object. 

The CHAIRMAN. Objection is made. The gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. STONE] is entitled to the floor. • Mr. STONE. Is there objection_totherequestofthegentlemanfrom 

Kentucky [Mr .. WILLIS)? . The CIIAIRMAN. The gentleman from Iowa [~Ir. HEPBURN] objected. . , Mr. WILLIS. l saw no one rise. · The rnle is that a. member objecting must rise. 

The CHAIRl\IAl~. Does the g~ntleman from Iowa insist on his objection? 

Mr. H;EPBUR...~: Yes, sir; I object. 

Mr. GIBSO~. The gentleman will allow me tQ make a suggestion. 

The object of the proposition to pass this paragraph over is tQ avoid 

any bad feeling upon the part of other,members-- ~ 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair suggests that any ap~l W·th~ gentleman from Iowa had better be made in private. t.Afler a. pause.] 

Does the gentleman from Iowa insist on his objection? 

Mr. HEPBURN. I·do not know how often it is necessary to make 

objeetion. I have done so twice. · The CHAIRUAN. The Chair will say that a request was made that 

the Chair allowanappeal to bemadero thegentlemanfromlowa. The 

Chair did not know the effect of that appeal without asking the question. The gentleman from Iowa objects; and the gentlem~ from Mas.; 

sa-chusetts [Mr. STO~E] has the floor. 

Mr. STONE;. !suppose, Ur. Chairman, thatlamdisclosingnosecret 

and betmyll_lg ~1o confidence when I state that the amendment which I 

have proposed to the pending· clause of the bill was offered by me· after a conference with the committee, and with reason to believe that it 

would be satisfactory to the committee, which, as members are aware, 

has been somewhat divided upon some questions in this bill; and judging from the indications upon this floor it was believed, in order tQ 

carry this bill, which is supposed to be of great importance to the 

country, that it was desirable to have if possib~e some unanimity of 

opinion and some concert Qf action in the committee. It was therefore 

to give effect to that opinion and to procure unanimity and concert of 

action to secure the passage of the bill that an effort was made in the_ committee to obtain for all the items of the bill as much harmony of 

aetion and nnity of sentiment as possible, and which it was believed 

wonld result in the final passage of the measure, with such amendments as it was believed or as might be indicated durlng the course of the 

discussion of the bill were necessary. I offered ~e rupendn!_ent, therefore, with that view, and did notanticipate that the member of the bommittee from Pennsylvania, who·it seems,wasnotpresentatthemeeting 

of the committee, although I thought all were present, would offel' the 

amendment which he did subsequently or immediately after inine was read. 

Now, 1\Ir. Chairman, I rise to-day fol' the purpose of opposing the 

amendment which the gentleman submitted for this reason:-that I desire the bill, or this portion of it, s!1all pass with the amendment sub-. mitted by me and unhampered in its operation by the subsequent ~endment suggested by him. I am opposed to his ame~dment, because it 

proposes to submit to 3 board of engineers the question of the necessity 

of a particular improvement of a river or harbor in this country. Now 

the question of the necessity of any such improvement is a question 

addressed to the legislati>e fuculty.of the country, and not to the ex- ecutive. It is entirely inconsistent with our. theory of government, 

with our established di>ision of the po:wers of goveOliD,.ent, by which l~oislative questions are tQ be submitted to the legislative department 

of the Government and executive questions to the executive department, to refer a question whether or not the commercial .needs of the 

country demand a particula.r improvement to a board of engineers. I 

repeat, sir, that such a submission is inconsistent with the doctrine of 

legislation, although I know very well when I mnke that remark that 

by a provision in the legislation of this colllitry when a ·survey is first 

ordered it is believed to be expedient to refer the questioi;t of the com- mercial improvement of the pla()e to a board of engineers, who shall 

pass upon the superficial question whether or not it appears to be an improvement required by the .commerce of the country. 

But the question which now confronts us-this particular improvement-was referred in the usual way to General 'l"'hom, and General 

Thoro in his preliminary report distinctly declared and reported to the 

Government that there was. need of a harbor of refuge at this point, 

and that this particular improvement was, in his judgment, a question 
1308 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

of public necessity. Now my friend from ~ew York [lli. POTTER] 

suggested that this.was the fruit ofmyown imagination or mething 

to that effect, and that it was not a great need of commerce or a requirement of the country 1 nor was it demanded eYen by the Represen t.1.tives ofmy portion of the country. · .iln response to the suggestion I wish to say to him that this enterprise did not originate-with me. It came to this Congress before-my 

time. It was reported here by General Thorn before I had. anything 

to do with Congress, and it was a pending enterprise before I had any 

connection with this business in any form. 

(Here the hammer fell.] . 

Mr. HART was recognized., and yielded his time to Mr. STOXE. 

Mr. STONE. Now, Mr. Chairman, I submit as I have already inti.zrut,ted that this is not a question to be decided by any narrow, ma- terial, or limited view of the needs of the commerce of the country. 

It is a question of humanity itself; a question that appeals to the liberal and enlightened policy of the age. I-t is a que tion as to whether or not an improvement of this character on this coast is demanded by 

all the considerations of public policy; and that question is one to be 

considered and decided, as I have said, by the legislative faculty of the ·eountry, and not by any power which may reside in any executive de- 'partnient. I say; therefore; that it is an abdication on the _part of Congress to attempt to avoid the responsibility of the question by 1'efe1·ring 

it in effect to a board of engineers. It is a question to be determine(l .absolutely by considei-ations of public -policy. 

Why, Mr. Chairman, we have ~ore than 3,000 miles of Atlanti c sea- coast, and there is not a single harbor of refuge of any pretension on that entlre coast except the one at the mouth of the Delaware Bay. 

To-:day Englan'd is constructing upon her east coast three hrge har'Qors 

of refuge to be built and paid for out of the imperial treasury, and the same policy prevails _with all of the maritime powers upon· the continent; and we have got to recognize the necessities of our vast.seacoast 

by the constnretion of slich harbors to meet the demands of commerce and humanity. For there is another consideration to which I wish 

especially to call the attention of the committee to show why we should 

not refer this suQject to a board of engineer. 

In the. consideration of the question as to the necessity of e tab fishing a harbor of refuge what are the condition which are to govern Congress in its actions ? Let me call the attention of this committee to the 

iact that it is not Rimply a question of the commercial needs of the 

country, but a question of humanity itself is involved. It is a question to be addressed peculiarly and solely to the legislative faculty of 

the Governme~t. I ask, then, _ that this House shall consider and decide upon this question for itself if they believe that the time has come when this great nation of ours, with its vast· resources and possipilities, 

shall begin to ~onsider the mode of proYiding in the most ample way 

not-only for the needs of commerce, but to meet the demands of humanity, as well as for the adequate defense of our coast in the .event of foreign complications. . If the Ho~e is to consider and reflect upon such 

things, it ou_ght now to uassupon and decide the question whether or not this enterprise of constructing a great harbor of refuge upon t'Qe 

coast of Massachuse~ i to be decided here or left; to the possbilities 

of the future. 

Npw, one word more. I am quite willing, 1\fr. Chairman, to submit any question of an engineering character to the Corps of Engineers. 

I agree. that in respect to the topograpb.y of the country, in respect to 

the best location O:Q. the coast, it is a very proper question for engineers 

to decide; therefore lam content to doitthatway. But when it comes to surrendering the power of this Congress-to a submission of the legislative authority. upon a question which has been long adjudicated, ~tered upon and decided, I submit it is only an expedient to avoid re- sponsibility, and throw upon other persons a question which should be 

decided by the House. 

[Here the hammer fell.] 

Mr. HORR. Is debate exhausted on this amendment? 

The CHAIRMAN. Five minutes remain on the formal amf.ndment. 

Mr .. HORR. I desire to ~y., M:r. Chairman, that ·r agree most heartily 

with the gentleman from Massacl:rusetts [Mr. STONE] as t-o this harbor 

of refuge. There are no outlays in this river and harbor bill that do more for the protection of life and property t:J:tan the building of proper 

harbors into which vessels can go during storms. The idea of building 

a second-class harbor for that purpose is· simply preposterous; that is 

simply providing for one class of. vessels on the ocean and saying to the 

other class you can go to the bottom and we will do nothing for you. 

Now, the breakwater on the Delaware, as every one who has exam- ined this quqstion knows, forins one of the best harbors now, and almost the onlyone, on theAtlantic coast. Itisnotan uncommon thing 

to see seven hundred vessels within those waJ.ls at once getting protection from the storm. We have on the lakes but one practical harbor 

of refuge, tha.t is at Sandy Beach,· on the coast of 1\fichigan._ It cost over $700,000, and almost weekly during the winter season you can see from one hundred to three hundred vessels driven within those walls 

to protect them from utter destruction. 

Ori the coast of New England there is perhaps more commerce than on any other part of the coast except down in the vicinity of the Dela- ware Breakwater. Nothing is more needed than a first-class harbor 

opposite the New England coast, and if we build one, 1\'Ir. Chairman, 

let us have a. good one. I want to enter my protest against the American people having secondClass .things any where in the world. We ought to do first-class and 

nothing but fu'St:-Class, and build first-class work~.,. ~omething that is in 

conformity with the dignity and power this nation ought to sustain 

among the nations of the earth. I do hope, therefore, the members of 

the House will stand by this committee in its decision that this harbor 

of refuge shall be built in such manner as to protect all the Yessels that run upon the· high seas. 1\Ir.. HART, by unanimous consent, withdrew his amendment. 

'1\:t:r. WHITE, of Kentucky. Let the amendment be agq,in read. 

1\Ir. GIBSON. · I wish to ask, :Mr. Chairman, whether the vote would 

not first be upon the amendment of the gentleman from Pennsylvania 

[1\[r. B.A. YNE J to the run&.dment of the gentleman from 1\la sachusetts 

[:1\Ir. STOXE]"? . . The CHA1RMAN. The Chair did not. put that question because the 

gent.leman from Massachusetts, as the Chair understood him, made the 

amendment to the amendment a part of his own amendment. 

M:r. STONE. No'; that is n. mistake. 

l\1r. ~IBSON, I understood thegentlemansoon yesterday, butthis 

morning be states differently. 

1\[r. STO~TE. ·J will explain, if the Chairman will allow me a mo- ment. When tbe gentleman n:om Pennsylvanin, [1\Ir. BAYNE] offered 

his amendment I accepted it, but after he oftered it he modified it, re- ferring tbe question· of necessity also to the engineers. Some one asked 

whether that 1·elated to the whole work. He answered it did. :Now, 

that .was a material and vital change, 1·efeiTing the question of necessity 

to the engineers, and that is the precise point I stand here to contest 

and combat. 

The CH.AIRMAN. The-Clerk will read from the RECORD. 

The Clerk read as follows : · 

The CHATR¥AN. The que tiou is on a g re eing to the amendment of the gentle- man from 1\Iassachu etts. · Ir.BA~"E. I pt·opose an Rmendment to the amendment. The CHAIRliiAN. 'l'he Cle rk will read. The Clerk read as follows: . " It shall be the duty of said board of engineers to examine int.o and report upon such other places upon saiu coast a s may be suitable for harbor purpose , and to estimate the cost thereof." 1\Ir. Sro::."""E. I accept that amendment. Mr. REAGAN. l would suggest to the gentleman to add the words " and the necessity therefor." · · 1\Ir. BAY!'I""E. I accept the suggestion of the gentleman u:om Texas, and will incorporate it in tpe amendment. Mr. STO~"E. Let the amendment be read as modified. The Clerk read as follows: ' ' Imprm;ing a national lla rbot· of refug e of the fir t <:lass at Sandy Bay or Cape 

Ann, Mas ac4usetts, $.100.000: Provided, '.rhat no part of this appropriation or of any previous appropriation shall be expended until a new board of three en- gineers, one of whom sha11 be the resident .engineer of the district, to be detailed immediat~ly by the Secretary of War,shall decide that this point is the best lo- cation on the coast for such a harbor that shalt serve all of the uses for which it may be needed; and it shall be the dut.y of said board of engineers .to e xamine into nnd rep~rt upon such other place~ upon said coast as may be suiln.ble for harbor purposes, and· to estimate the cost thereof and th'e necessity therefor." 

The CHAIRMAN. .i t.he Chair remembers, tliat is all of it; an<.l 

the gentleman from Ma achusetts [Air. STONE] having agreed to ac- cept the amendment of the gentlemaiLfrom Pennsylvania [Mr. BAYNE], 

and being silent after the gentleman from Pennsylvania modified it, the 

Chair treated the whoJe amendment as accepted. 

llir. STONE. If so, it was done under a misapprehension. 

The CHAIRl\f.Al~. lf the gentleman from Ma sachusefu did not o 

intend--

Mr. STONE. Not at all. 

The CHAIRMAN. In that case the Chair will put the que tion on the amendment of the gentleman from Pennsylvania,. 

1\'Ir. GIBSON. I ask unanimo11s consent that the question may be 

put on theamendmentoft}legentlemanfromPennsylvania. [Mr. BA ~E] 

withoutthewords "and the necessitytherefor. " · · 1\Ir. REAGAN .• I understand, then, the question will be on the adoption of the' last clause suggested, and I desire to say a word on it. ~Ir. WILLIS. Is not "debate exhausted? 

The CHAIRMAN. Deb:tte on the amendment of the gentleman 

from Ohio [:M:r. HART] a.~ exhausted and he withdrew his fvrmal 

amendment. 

1\Ir. WILLIS. But the Holise limited debate on all amendments to 

the paragraph. 

Mr. REAGAN. I think there have been only ten minutes of discussion. 

The CH~IRMAN. There has not been debate for a longer time than 

fifteen minutes, although there was considerable interruption, occupying much ~e. The gentleman from Texas will proceed. 

Mr. REAGAN. I think it would be ·a mistake to adopt this amendmElnt in a form. which requh·es a report in favor of a harbor of refuge 

at that point:without a report upon the question of its necessity. There 

is a fine harbor of twenty-two feet water within :five miles of it. There 

is Boston &rbor, a deep and valuable harbor, within thirty miles. 

There is another harbor some forty miles north of it; all of them good 

harbors . . And if it is intended as a defensive measure, the money that 

goes into it had much better go to the fortification and strengthening of 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL ·RECORD-HOUSE. 1309 . .! ·-

the defenses all around the city of Boston, where the commerce is. Besides, I am; informed that in bad w~~her sailing vessels, at least if the w~d is from the ocean side, can not enter the harbor; in good weather 

they will not wish to enter the harbor. 

I think we ought not to require the engineers to rep01·t a scheme like 

tbi§ when there is an abundance of harbors for all purposes of com- merce and safety without letting the engineers pass on the question of 

the necessity for the harbor. 

I add one more word. The gentleman from Uassachusetts raised an obj~tion to the improvement of another harbor to fadlitate what is almost a continental commerce. One of his objections was that the cost 

of building it" amounted to too much. Here is one proposed by him 

that will cost more, that for all purposes except to furnish a matket 

for granite is useless. . 1\Ir. OATES. I desire to ask the gentleman a. question. Does not 

the report of the engineers show the very thing proposed by this has 

been done, and if such a harbor is to be bnjlt Sandy Bay is the best on the coast? This is w bat this amendment is striking fOr now. But the 

bOard of engineers report against it on acco1mt of the immense cost. 

Mr. REAGAN. They have reported against the necessity for it, and 

I do not wish them tied up so that they can not do it again. 

Mr. STONE. I wish to say, if the gentleman from Texas referred to me when he said the gentleman from Massachusetts--

:Mr. REA.GAN. I did refer to the gentleman. . :Mr. STONE. When the.gentleman says I am opposed to an appropriation smaller than would ultimately be expended on account of thls 

breakwater, an appropriation in any part of the country, he misconceives my position altogether. I have never in any way objected to any 

appropriation of any magnitude for any enterprise in any part of .the 

country. If the gentleman imagines I am opposed to the appropriation 

of $1,000,000 or five millions for the city of Galveston or any other point 

he misconceives my position. 

Mr. REAGAN. I must have misunderstood the gentleman. I cer- tainly understood him to criticise and oppose that proposition: . Mr. STONE. The gentleman misunderstood me entirely. I want 

to say one word more to meet the argument of the gentleman from 

Texas: I am willing to submit the topographlcal question to engineers, 

and if the harbor is found to be inaccessible in bad weather, or for any 

other reason will :not fulfill the conditions of a first-class harpor, the 

report will be unfavorable. But as I have already said the only question 

that should go_ to the engineers is the topographical question as to 

whether thls is the best location, having regard to all the conditions of a first-class harbor. · . • 

1\Ir. CuTc:HEoN rose. . The CHAIRMAN. By order of the House all debate on the pending 

paragmph and amendments thereto was limited to twenty minutes. 

The Chair has allowed some latitude because of certain interruptions, 

and the limit of debate has now been reached. The question is on the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Pennsylvariia [Mr. 

BAYNE]. . . 

The question being taken, there were-ayes 47, noes 52 . . So (fur~her count not being called for) 'the amendment was not 

agreed to. · · · 

The CHAiRMAN. The qu~stion recurs on 'the amendment of the 

gentleman from Massachusetts [1\Ir. STONE]. 

Mr. BLOUNT. I ask that the amendment be reported again. 

The CHAIRMAN . . The Chair" directs the amendment to be reported again. . 

The amendment was again read. . The committee divided; and there were-ayes 82, noes 20. · 

So (further count not being caD:ed for) the a:rp.endment was agreed to. 

The CHAIRMAN. The question now recurs on the motion of the 

gentleman from Alabama [Mr. OATEs] to strike out the paragraph. 

Mr. DAVIS, of Massachusetts. I ask that the question be again 

stated. · 

The CHAIRUAN. The Chair seems to be in sotne confusion from a want of recollection of what occurred yesterday with reference to this 

matter. ·The effort of the gentleman from Pennsylvania [1\Ir. BAYNE] 

and the gentleman from ~ssachusetts [Mr. STONE] was to. perfect the 

section before the- motion to strike out was made. It is sng_gested, however, thatthemotionofthegen,tleman from 1\IassachusettsL~Ir. STONE] was offered as a substitute for the section--

1\Ir. STONE. Illy motion was a substitute. for the whole section. 

?tir. OATES. 1\Ir. Chairman, I think the RECORD will show that I 

yielded the floor for an amendment to be offered for the purpose of pertecting the section. · 

The CH..URMAN. That is the recollection of the Chair. The 

Chair's recollection is that the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. 

STONE] asked consent of the gentleman from Alabama [.1\Ir. OATES] 

to amend the section before the motion of_ the gentleman from Alabama 

was made. 

Mr. THOMAS. Yes; but the gentleman from 'Massachusetts [Mr. 

STOYE] expressly stated in so many words when he offered the amendment that he offered it as a substitute. 

Mr. REAGAN. I suppose there must be some mistake about it, be- cause there would be no appropriatioB if this were a substitute for the 

other provision. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read from tJ:leRECORDwhattook 

place. · ' 

The Clerk read from the record of yesrerday's proceedings, as follows: 

1\Ir. STO:YE. I offer the following substitute for the paragraph which has been 

read, and I do it by instruction of the Committee on Rivers and Harbors. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Mr. BAYNE. I take it the motion to strike out can be entertained 

whether the vote is upon a substitute ox: hot. 

1\ir. WILSON, of Iowa. Mr. Chairman, I would like to be heard 

upon that point. 

The CH.A.IRl\IAN. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [.1\fr, BAYNE] 

will please repeat his statement. 

1\Ir. BAYNE. I say that· the motion to strike out will apply just as well if the proposition of the gentleman from :Massachusetts [Mr. 

STONE] was offered as a substitute asifitwasoffered as an amendment; 

and on this principle, that the House, or the Committee of the Whola, 

House, has a right to perfect the proposition as nearly as it can, to get 

it in as good shape as it can. Ifi.t can get it in the best possible shape 

by adopting the substitute it adopts the substitute; but if, after having 

got the proposition into that shape, the committee is dissatisfied with 

the substitute, then it is within the power of the committee to strike' 

it entirely out. That is the parliamentary law of the case. -Under !he 

rules .the committee can strike out this substitute, even thonghit may 

stand in that position. 

1\'II'. OATES. The substitute is an amendment. 

:Mr. WILSON, of Iowa. The gentleman from Pennsylvania· [Mr. 

BAYNE] is just as much mistaken about that as if~e bad "burned his 

shirt." [Laughter.] . According to Jefferson, who is one of our au- thorities, after you strike out and insert in Committee of the Whole, 

what you insert can not be stricken out by itself. You may insert A; 

B, and C, but after that you can not strike out A, B, and C, though 

yon can .move to strike out A, B, C, and D. The ·theory is based on tlie old English parliamentary practice, as far as the Committee of 

tho 'Vhole is concerned, that what we do in committee we can not 

undo. The House can undo it, but the committee (!all not. The mo.: tion to reconsider is denied in the Committee of the Whole on. that same grolJ.lld. The rules have neverca-rrieu the motion to reconsider 

into Committee of the Wbole; and that is based upon the broad par.; 

liamentary principle that it is vain to do ar thing and then turn a,rouiid 

and undo it. ' · 11-Ir.-GIBSpN. :Mr. Chairman, there is evidently a plistake all around as to the time at which this motion was made and the marmet' of the 

offeripg of the substitute. If the Clerk will Jook a little further back 

in the RECORD he will see that when this paragraph was reached and 

the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. OATES] rose to . make a motion to 

strike out the paragraph, 1 rose in my place and requested him to withhold that motion, sta.ting that the committee had agreed upon a substitute1 which the gentleman from Massachusetts [l\:Ir. STONE] would 

offer. · Thereupon, on that request, the gentleman frolil. Alabama [?t-Ir. 

OATES] said, as ne..'1r as I can recollect his language without having the 

RECORD before me: "Under those circumstances I will withhold my 

motion until the substitute is offered." That motion was withheld 

and the substitute was offered. · . After the substitute was offered and 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania [M:r:. BAYNE] offered hisamend: 

ment some difficulty arose about that, and we have now adopted tha 

substitute of the committee offered by the gentleman from Massachu! 

setts [Mr. STONE] in place of. the original proposition. That is the 

state of the facts in relation to this matter. , 11Ir. CUTCHEON, Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that .this is a mat: 

ter of words rather than of things. The gentleman from Alabama· [Mr. OATES] moved to strike out the paragraph. He yielded for the 

amendm.ent of the gentlema'D. from Massac~usetts [Mr. STONE], ,an: 

nonncing in the first instance that- he desired to offer an amend-' 

ment-- · · 

1\Ir. STONE. I beg the gentleman's pardon. :ur. CUTCHEON. -Subsequently the gentleman from Massachusetts 

[Mr. STONE] characterized theamendmentasasubstitute. Now,what 

is the substitute? ·The substitute says, ''Improving national harbor 

ofrefuge of first class at Sandy Bay, Cape Ann, Massachusetts, $100,-: 

000.'' So fur it is the original paragraph precisely in terms. Then it 

appends a proviso. 'What is that but an amendment? Yon may call. it a substitu.te, but yqu incorporate in your substitute :first the identi~ 

cal paragraph, and then append to it a proviso. That is-I was going 

to say "whlpping the devil around the stump," but that is not an elegant metaphor. I will say, however, that it is simply evading the point 

. by calling the proposition a ''substitute'' instead of an amendment, 

when it is to all intents and purposes· ali a~endment. 

1\fr. WILSON, ~f Iowa. There is a complete stri_king· out and a com- plete inserting. 

1\Ir. CUTCHEON. No; you do not strikeout anything. Yon leave th~ original paragraph iptact and · simply add a proviso. Calling the 

proposition a substitute does not make it a substitute. · 

Mr. STONE. In order to shorten this matter I have no objection to 

its_ being passed upon in the mode suggested by the gentleman last on· the floor [Mr. CUTOHEON]; that is, I am perfectly willing that the mo- tion to strike on t shall be passed upon by the Committee of the Whole. 

Mr. THOMAS. . I make the point of order that the gentleman from 
1310 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 5, 

Massachusetts [Mr. STONE] can not consent to an un~Uamev.taryproceeding, and that thiS is not an amendment, the assertion ·to the con- trary notwithstanding. Under the rules a paragraph in the bill may 

be amended; and there may be amendments to an amendment with 

the view of perfecting the section. But when the section has been 

stricken out and a substitute adopted in lieu thereo~ a motion to strike 

out is not in order, as the House has already expressed its opi¢on upon 

the point and adopted the substitute. 

Mr. WILSON, of Iowa. That is correct. 

Mr. THOMAS. _Therefore I .say, although the gentleman from Massachusetts may be willing t~ agree that a vote·be taken upon the proposition to strike out, his assent avails nothing, for the House has already expressed itself with reference to this paragraph-has. adopted a substitute, and that is the end of it. 

Mr. ROWELL and Mr. OATES rose. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks that there has been enough 

debate on this question, but will hear gentlemen further if they so desire. · 

Mr. ROWELL. I want to make a. single suggestion. When the vote was taken this morning ihe chairman put, the question upon the 

"amendment ' 1 of the gentleman from 1\fa.ssa-chusetts, and the· Committee 9f the Whole adopted it as an " amendment " and so understood 

it. If we voted upon an "amendment" and it turns out that it was offered as a · substitute, then we have not voted upon the substitute. 

Mr. WASHBURN rose. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is ready to rule on this questi9n. 

Mr. WASHBURN. Whatever this point of order may be worth, it seems to me we niay just as well have a. fair, square, honest vote on this proposition and have it at this time. 

The_ CHAIRMAN. The Chair will. suggest that the quickest way to 

reach a ·vote is to allow the Chair to dispose of the question of order. 

The gentleman from Massachusetts offered a substitute which repeats 

in lueo verba the language of the bill and siniply adds a proviso. It has 

been treated as an amendment to theparagraph and so d~bated. Not one single word of the paragraph was stricken out or changed by this 

proposition, but simply a proviso added. . While it is true that a m<>- tion to strike out and insert would operate as claimed by gentlemen 

who have spoken, the Chair thinks that in its effect this was not such a motion, and therefore will resolve the doubt by pursuing his original 

idea---:that the question in order is upon the motion proposed by the 

gentleman :f:r;om Alabama to strike out the section. · The question being taken, there were-ayes 74, noes 42: 

Mr. STONE. Tellers. · . 

The CHAIRMAN. Tellers axe demanded·. As many as are in fuvor 

of ordering tellers will rise. · Mr. LONG (during the count by the chairman). Is not my colleague (Mr. STONE] entitled to tellers~ there having been no quorum? 

A MEMBER. That point was not made. [Cries of."Too late!"] 

The CHAIRMAN. Twenty-one members have .risen to order tellers-not a sufficient number. '"Tellers are refused. The motion of file 

gentleman from Alabama to strike out the section is adopted. · The Clerk read as follows: 

Improving harbor at Wood's Roll, 1\ias . : To .complete improvement, ,600. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move to amend by striking out the 

last word. I rise for the purpose of calling attention--

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Kentucl..-y .will suspend. 

The Chair is informed that w.hen the motion to limit debate w:ts made 

tbi.l? morning by the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WILLIS] it was put and adopted in the form of a motion to limit debate on the " sec- tion. 11 If that action be now strictly construed, debate is not in order. 

Mr. WILLIS. I recognize the fact that as the JDOtion was stated 

an4 adopted it woul~ prevent debate on every other paragraph of this 

section; but I feel it would be impr<>perto .take advantage of a slip of 

language on my part. My intention in making the motion was to limit· 

debate not on the " section " but on the pam~ ph. Therefore, as the 

paragraph has now been passed, I make no point ~ to debate having 

been closed. . The CHAIRUAN. The Chair will state that it is very comp1on to 

call these paragraphs '' sections,., ' though technically they are not such . . Hence the inquiry ma:de by the Chair. The g~ntlemanfrom Kentucky 

[Mr. WmTE] is recognized. . · Air. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move to amend by stri.l..-.i_ng out the 

last word. I ris~ for the purpose of calling. attention to two lines 

which in the hurry of our proceedings were passed over without giving us a chance to offer any ·amendmentS. I refer to lines 27 and 28, providing for the improvement of Plymouth Harbor. lam aware the Chair 

has ruled that we haV'e passed these lines-- . 

Mr. GIBSON. I rise :toapointoforder. The gentleman has stated 

that his object in rising now is to discuss a paragraph that has been 

passed; -and I Submit that upon his own statement he is not in order. 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair thinks the point of order is well taken. 

The gentleman :from Kentucky will proceed in order. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. If I am not mistaken, the river and 

harbor bill is still under discussion. In order to undemtand the whole 

bill it is necessary to understand its-parts. It is a well-known mathematical axiom that the whole is only the sum of all the parts. Now, 

I atn going to talk about two parts of this bill in connection with my 

amendment to lines 36 and 37. Aiy amendment is to lines 36 and 37, 

and I desire to call the attention of the committee to what was done 

yesterday. When the paragraph relating to Plymouth Harbor was read it was passed over in the hurry of debate without the offering of 

the proper amendment. Now, in the last Congress we appropriat-ed 

but one-third of what the engil)eers said was necessary to complete 

that work. This year in this bill we appropriate less than one-third 

of what they ·say will be necessary to complete that work. In. other 

words, we appropriated $10,000. ~year we appropriate $5,000. 

The engineers tell us th~ 18,000 will complete that work. We need 

only appropriate $18,000. to complete that work, where there is some commerce, where there is a harbor, and where we can do something for 

the benefit of commerce. · What did ·we do yesterday? Instead of completing the harbbr at 

Plymouth we put in this bill an appropriation of$6,000 for Hingham 

Harbor, where there is no harbor and where there is no commerce. How 

much confidence will the people of the United St:ltes have in Congre 

if when Congress say.s we are not to rely upon·the engineers ·and then. Congress turns round and refuses to appropriate money to complete :m important harbor-the oldest harbor on the Atlantic coast-~ hen only 

$18,000 are required to complete it, put in .only an appropriation of 

5, 000 for that work--

The CHAIRMAN. The gel).tleman's time has expired. 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I move to strikeoutthetwola twords; 

and I desire to call attention of the committee to this fact: We can not 

impose on the country,·although we may put weight enough in this bill 

to carry it through. 

l\Ir. WAIT. I make this point of order in this way: Can any mem- berof the House consume the entire time that is supposed to be devoted 

here t<> the di..cussion of this bill, and can no other party ha,•e an opportunity to offer an amendment or to discuss the bill? 

Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I will yield to the gentleman from Connecticut if he wants the floor to discuss the bill. I alway yield to aen- tlemen of age. 

The CHAIRMAN. Will the gentleman allow the Chair t<> rule on the point of order? 

Mr. WHITE, ofKentucky. Yes. · The CHA.IRl\lAN. The Chaircanonlyrule a hedidy~terday,"that 

when gentlemen make propositions theChair knows noway to top debate except by rising and having debate limited in the House. The 

Chair can not do otherwise than recognize the gentleman. 

A1r. WHITE, ofKentuck.y .. lean not yield for thatmotionjustnow. 

Mr. REAGAN. I wish t<> ask the Chair if he feels bound to recognize the .same gentleman over and over again .to the exclusion of the 

balance of the House? · The CHAIRlYIAN. The Chair will state in that regard that no other gentleman asked for recognition. The gentleman from Kentucky i3 

entitled to the floor and will proceed. • Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. This harb<>r of Wood' Roll, Ma ., id 

under discussion. Now, in regard to the part of the bill passed oYeT 

the committee have ignored, and every important harbor which the 

engineers have reported on frow time to time which has a gre:tt deal of 

commerce, where $18,000 would complete the work, and this bill gives 

to that harbor by the action ofy~terday $5,000 only. Why, sir, that 

will not do for the keep of the plant of the machinery and the man. in 

charge, t<> say nothing of the prosecution of the work. It is sim:ply a continuation of a tax without any beneficent result. 

Now, I want to CQmpa.re that with an appropriation made yesterday 

for a harbor, so called, on that same coast, within a. few miles of Plymouth . . I refer .to Ilingham Harbor, where there is no harbor where 

there is no commerce, and only one steam boat can rui:l at all. Yet for 

that little harbor, so called, this _ bill carries now 6,000, and yet for 

flymouth, within a cannon-shot of Hingham, you only give one-third 

the amount and tell us it will complete it. I point this out as an enormity in this bill, and that is all I desire to say. Mr. LONG. ·I rise to oppose the amendment, simply to say. the gentleman from Kentucky, who is not, perhaps, thoroughly informed a to 

Hingham Harbor, bas made some statements which I must correct. 

A MEl\IBER. Nobody pays any attention to it. 

Air. LONG. Very well, then, I will not detain the Honse. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Improving harbor at Newport, R.I. : Conti.D.uing improvement, $12,500. 

Mr. SPOONER. I move, in line 41, to amend a follows: 

Strike out "$1.2,500 " and insert "$20,0oo.'; 

Mr. Chairm~ the harbor at Newport, as stated in the report of theengineers, and as should be well undel)Stood, is one of the mo t important harbors on the coast,· providing a safe roadstead and anchorage. 

The inner harbor is a harbor of refuge very much required on that 

part of our coast . . It is a harb<>r of national importance~ The ~­

portant Government works of ·Fort Adams ~re there; the naval traming school is located there. The work now progressing is to obtain a uniform depth of fifteen feet in the channel and inner harbor. Among 

the great commercial interests of that port which I think it is. desi.r-
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 

able the committee should provide for are the great steamers of the 

Old COlony Steamboat Company, running from New York to Newport 

and thence to Fall River, in the State of Massachusetts. It-is a. great 

line of intercommunication and inland travel. On these steamers during the ·Jwt year there were carried about 250,000 tons of freight and 

passengers to the number of about 270,000. 

The depth of the water in the channel, as indicated on the chart at 

mean low water, is now thirteen feet; but as there are times, particularly in stormy w9ther,when there will be instead of thirteen feet at 

mean low water but twelve feet in mid-channel, it is earnestly urged 

that the project now in progress for completing the depth to fifteen feet 

should be continued, as recommended by the engineers. 

The supervisor of the Old Colony Steamboat Company, in his CO!fimnnicati.on to the engineer in charge of the work, saysi 

That until a. depth of fift.een feet is obtained it is impossible for our great steamers to enter the harbor at all stages of the tide. · .A.ny of the steamers of this lineHe says- · 

with an ordinary load will·ground in tlre present channel at extreme low water. 

• The amendment I offer, 1\fr. Chairman, contemplaf.es a moderate portion only of the appropriations reco:rnmended by the engineers. The 

engineers recommended an appropriation for the present year of $50,000. 

The committee have cut this down, as I have already suggested in my 

remarks on yesterday, to but.25 per cent. of the estimate, or $12,500, 

and I simply as at this time that the harbor of Newport, important as 

it is in its commercial relations, .should have at lea-st that_ moderate consideration of its necessities which is.asked for by the amendment, and 

which seeks an appropriation of but 40 per cent. of the amount recommended by the engineers. I hop~ the amendment will be adopted. I 

ask it in the interest of existing commerce and not of any problem of 

what may po ibly be required hereafter. · · 

11Ir. THO.i\I.AS. Ur. C'h.l.irm::m, I hardly think it is necessary to reply to the remarks of the gentleman from Rhode Island in support of 

his amendment, ber.ause the committee haveacted carefully iu the consideration of this matter, andhaYe given all that they deemed necessary. 

I can only say, therefore, that this harbor has been treated exactly as 

other harbors, except in cases where a. small amount would complete 

. the whole work; and in comparison to the amount of shipping to be 

benefited this harbor has Tecei ved a much under this bill as has been. allowed to· any other harbor of equal importance. 

Mr. WILLIS. And there are 20,000 of the last appropriation on hand yet unexpended. . . · 

Mr. THOMAS. As suggested by the chairman of the committee, and 

as the report shows, there are ~20, 000 of the last appropriation on hand 

unexpended, _which, with the amottnt allowed in this bill, will be all 

that can be e..'Cpended through this season. I hope the amendment will 

not be adopted. . . 

Mr. SPOONER. If it be neces ary, I shall move to strike out the 

last word, to sa.y that the amount ou hand is simply the appropriation 

which is to be used for the present fi 'cal year. It has no reference to 

the next year. I ask a vote upon the amendment. 

The question was taken; and on a division there were-ayes 36, noes 

65. 

So the amendment was not agreed to. 

Mr. SPOONER. I now ofter the amendment which I send to the 

desk. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Amend by inserting after line 41 : · 

"Improving harbor and breakwater at Bloc k Island, R.I.: Completing im- provement, 15,000." 

11Ir. SPOONER. .Mr. _ChairmaU:, the objection which w;s tirged by 

gentlemen on the comnuttec to the last amendment asltina the increase of appropriation, certainly does not apply to tlrls. Thls is one of the very works to which the gentlellll1u from Illinois alluded, where 

but a small a.mo.unt of additional appropriation is required to complete 

the wo~ks now m progr~. The recom~endation of the engineer in 

char.ge lS that 15,000 should be appropriated for the completion of the 

work, which is the completion of the breakwater at Block Island. · 

The harbor at Block Island, Mr. Chairman,-is a. natural harbOr of ref-

. uge in certain states of ~d and weather, and will be a perfect harbor 

of refuge after the completiOn of the breakwater now in pro!rress. It is 

of the utmost importance to the commerce of the country ;hich passes 

along that coa-st and in the neighborhood of Block Island which is a. 

very dang~rous lo~ty. I.t also affords refuge for the fishlng fleets off . the banks m that neighborhood, and is of great importance in the interests of the general commerce of the country. . 

I ask, Mr. Chairman, that this projectmay have the fair and reasonable consideration of th~ committee. Fifteen thousand dollars will 

complete the work now in p.rogress. A member of the committee has 

said that they have made these appropriations generally or only 'ln 

those cases where the amount would complete the work. It wiU do. it 

here. It is a meritorious improvement. 

.Mr. THOUAS. I only ·desire to call the attention of the committee 

to this paragraph in the report of the Chief ot Engineers to show why 

the committee rejected this project: 

It is proposed, with the available remainder of the appropriations of August 

. 

· 2, 1882, and the amount appropriated by the act of Congress of July 5, 18Si, to replace the Go-....ernment wharf within the inner harbor by a. substantial struct- ure. To this wharf, which is in a decayed condition, all the freight carried to and from the island is brought, and at it are landed the United States mails and· all the supplies for the four light-houses on the island and the steam siren (fogsignal). '- · . . . 

It will be seen that the engineer in charge proposes and is engaged 

in buildi~g a wharf upon which to land-freights for the inhabitantB of 

the island. It'is a private enterprise. It is for the improvement of 

private property, and not _in the interest of general commerce. It is not 

even in the interest of shipping that may suffer .from storms or woul<l 

be seekinga. harbor of refuge, but is simply to build wharves at which 

private freightB for the inhabitants of the island maybe landed. The 

committee thought it was not safe to engage or to go further in an enterprise which was to be directed to the improvement of private property 

alone: I hope the amendment will not be adopted. 

Mr. SPOONER. . Have I any time remaining? 

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has one minute remaining. 

1\Ir. SPOONER. I move to strike out the last word, as I want a little 

more than one minute, although I shall be very brief. The ·gentleman 

who has just addressed the committee has ina-dvertently only read a. portion of the report referred to. . If lie will turn to a. pri01: page he 

will see what was the original condition of that islandt The report 

says: 

Before the construction of the present harbor of refuge Block Island had no harbor which afforded protection for decked vessels. The ·only ones used were open boats, which, on the approach of.storms, were hauled up on the beach by oxen, The largest.of these boats· were of about ten tons bur~en. 

There are, as has been already indicated by what the gentleman from 

illinois himself has read, four light-JwU.ses on. the island. There is the 

GoYernment post-office there. There is the fog-signal; which is to be 

cared for. All these are matters of Government interest; and this wharf 

which has been referred to had to be built in the .first instance for the 

benefit of th~e Government works and those who are concerned in 

managing the affairs of the light-houses, ·and to enable the United 

States mails to be landed upon the island and taken from the island. 

It is well knowp. that Block I3land has grown to be a place of gteat 

resort. There are regular lines of steamers running there daily dur.: 

ing the summer season and one steamer which runs there during the 

entire y~r. If gentlemen of the committee do not apprehend the imj 

portance of this little harbor of refuge I believe it is because they have 

not given that careful consideration to this project which bas been given 

to other projects far less meritorious which are included in the appro! 

priation in this bill. . I hope, sir, that justice will be done to the little harbor of Block 

Island, and to the hardy fishermen and sailors who look there for a harbor <.>f refuge. 

A MEMBER. Is it a Government wharf? 

Mr. SPOO:NER. It is a Government wharf. 

1\Ir. THOMAS. In reply to the gentleman from Rhode Island I will 

say that the breakwater has been com.plet~d; the harbor of refuge is. 

in a perfect state now, and the engineer expressly .states J;ha.t the pr~::

ent project is to build this wharf where the mails are landed.. The 

hardy fisherm~n have complete protection in this harbor of refuge now!o 

And shall we go on and complete wharves for the landing of freigh~. 

of private individuals after. we have protected the hllrdy fishermen of 

Block Island? I protest against it. 

Mr. SPOOYER rose. 

Ur. THOMAS. I yield for a question. 

Mr. SPOONER. I wish to ask the gentleman from Illinois to read 

a portion of the report, which will correct the misinformation which he 

has just given to the committee. The harbor of refuge and breakwat-er· 

have not been completed, and the repairs on the Government wh~es 

are but a trifling item of what is asked for in this appropriation. 

Mr. THOlL<U3. I read this from the report: 

It. is proposed, with the a"-ailable reina.inde-r of the appropriations of August 

2, 1882, and the amount appropriated by thto act of Congress of July 5, 18M, to replace the Government wharf within the Inner Harbor by a substantial struct- ure. To this wharf, which is in a. decayed condition, all the freight carried to and from the island is brought-, and at it are landed the United States mails and all the supplies for the four light-houses on the island and the steam siren (fogsignal) . 

:Mr. SPOONER. Read the ne~t paragraph. 

Mr. THOMAS. The next paragraph is as follows: 

It is also proposed to fill the gap in the breakwater to exclude the heavy sea which .now rolls through it in easterly storms into the anchorage, and of which complaint is made. · The estimated·cost of t-he last project was $30,000. Of this amount there has been appropriated th~ sum of$15,000. . . 

That is the whole of it. 

1\Ir. SPOO:NER. As I understand the portion of tne report now rend 

the last-mentioned project Iefers entirely to the completion of the 

breakwater. . 

The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of thll gentleman from Rhode Island [Mr. SPOONER] . 

The question being taken, there wer8=-ayes 48, :t:loes 72. 

The CHAffiMA.N (having announced the vote). The amemlmentis 

not agreed to. 

l\1r. SPOONER. No quorum . 
1312 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 5} 

The CHAIR?tlli~. The point of no quorum is made too late. The 

Chair had announced the vote. 

Mr. SPOONER. I demand tellers. . The CHAIRMAN. The demand is too late. 

Mr. SPOONER. Why too late? 

Mt. REED, ofMaine. I wishtosuggesttotheChairthatitisimpossible to make the point of no quorum until the Chair has announced the 

vote. · 

Mr. SPOONER. How can I tell whether a quorum has voted until 

the result is announced? 

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair was mistaken. 

Mr. WILLIS. I hope the point of no quorum will be waived. 

The CH4-ffi1\1A.N. The Ohair was mistaken. The gentleman from 

Rhode Island, Mr. SPO<h~ER, and the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. 

·\YILLIS, will act as tellers. . The committee again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes· 59, noes 

106. . So the amendment was not agreed. to. 

1\Ir. McCOMAS. ?tfr. Chairman, I offer an amendment which I send 

to the Clerk's desk to be read. 

The Clerk read as follows: 

Provided, That the sums by this act appropriated shall be expended only for 

such of the rivers, harbors, ice-harbors, harbors of refuge, creeks, bayous, canals, 

and reservoirs named in this act as the Secretary of 'Var, under the direction of 

the President, shall d!)termine: And prwided furt1r.er, That in no case shall the 

expenditure for any one pm-pose exceed the-sum now designated by this act for 

that purpose. · . 

· 1\11'. McCOMAs. 1\Ir. Chairman, I propose this amendment in good faith~ and it shall receive at least one vote, from the conviction that 

sueh a proviso would save from waste many thousands and perhaps a million or millions of dollars. I want the responsibility for this ·ex- penditure placed somewhere. While some worthy gentlemen are sensitive respecting this bill, no one seems responsible for all of it. This 

debate has disclosed the fact that the engineers are not responsible. 

The report of the Chief of Engineers warns us that· the estimates of the 

engineers are not to be considered as carrying with them a recommendation of the need of the expenditure. 

The Ho~e thus far has not contrived to make any amendment of 

this pill looking to the reduction or material modification of appropriations. The members of the Committee on Rivers and Harbors themselves 

in this deba~, one after another, have shown this House that they are not 

united upon the policy of the main items of appropriation in this bill. 

Nor has there yet been a single member of that committee who, when 

pressed, has not admitted in effect that there are many l~er items in 

the bill which are of doubtful propriety or public need. 

Now, :M,r. Chairman, sincewe appropriated$13,000,000 forriversand 

harboiS last session, and propose to add ~12,000,000 in the present ses- sion, if it be true, as I do not doubt it is true, that the committee were hurried for want ofti~e, it seems to me that we are making too much 

haste to expend $25,000,000 by the appropriations of this Congress for. rivers and harbors. Shall we in one Congress expend a sum which 

equals nearly one-fourth of all the money expended by all the Con~ 

gresses fm· that purpos~ from the b~nning of the Government until 

this Congress met? For that torol is but 111,299,464.79. 

. This.is an appropriation bill. Why was not time taken to ascertain 

the total amount appropriated and to print it at the foot of the bill? 

I wish the printed bill had disclosed to the members of this House the 

estimate of the Secretary of War, which recommended but $8,177,000 

for rivers and harbors this year. It is not a sufficient answer to say 

that this practice has not heretofore obtained. It has been so often 

urged in this debate that a river and harbor bill is like a general appropriation bill in all else, shall it not resemble it. in this respect! Such ·a showing would make plain that this bill proposes to expend three 

dollars wltere two would suffice for the public need. 

Without my amendment this bill.as an annual appropriation bill in 

effect directs the President to.expend $12,000,000 in so brief a period 

that the expenditure can not be made economically and advantageously. 

[Here the h.ammer fell.] 

Mr;· McCOMAS. I -ask five minutes more. Mr. WILLIS." Mr. Chairma.n, I am sure my-friend from Maryland 

[Mr. ~IcCmiAs] has offered this resolution in good faith, but when I assure him that that is the exact law at the present time I think he will 

not desire to press his proposition. 

Mr. McCOMAS. Mr. Chairman, with all due deference to the able 

chairman Qf the-Committee on Rivers and Harbors [JHr. WILLIS], let me say that this amendment is intended only to follow in the line of 

the river and harbor veto message of President Arthur, which had the 

approval of the country at large·; and when the President himself said, 

under the advice of his Attorney-General, that if that 'money was appropriated he would feel himself directed and compelled to expend it. 

all, it -seems to me that there can be no better reason for adopting such 

a proviso as this. 

There is a public sentiment Gteadily gathering favor in this country 

that the President should have the power to veto items of_ an appropriation bill. Can w~ not safely in this bill, which no -one member 

warmly defends in its entirety, and which, though · prepared in haste, 

embraces many newprojects involving enormous expenditures, intrust th~ new President with a discretion which may prevent the extravagant waste of public moneys? If there be a provision of that sort inserted somewhere in this bill, if my amendment be adopted, I believe 

the result will be that in the next Congress we may :find millions saved.: The engineer teport, barely printed when this bill was taken up, 

shows us that probably millions of the funds heretofore apjp>priated 

remain unexpended. Shall we pile up these millions in adilition by 

hurried legislation? Shall we not by my amendment fix the respon.; 

sibility somewhere? Shall we riot hold the President and Secretary of 

War responsible? Letthe bill indicatetothem the objects which Congress, with a too hurried examination, believes to be worthy of the nation's care. Their more deliberate selection may be tfUSted to determine which of these need the money. ·It may result that millions may 

be Raved. 

If the Secretary of War, under the direction of the incoming President, confines the expenditure of these moneys to the improvement of 

rivers and harbors navigable within the legal definition of the word 

navigable, as defined by the Supreme Court, the nation will not suffer, 

and the tax-payers of the nation will applaud Congress for adopting this 

proviso. · · 

The Supreme C'ourt (11 Walla-ce, 411) calls a river "a navigable 

water of the United States when it 1orms by itself, or by its connection 

with other waters, a co;ntinuous high"ay over which commerce is or may be carried on with other States or foreign countries in the customm-y modes in which such commerce is conducted by water;" and declares that " if .a river is not of itself a highway fo commerce with 

other States or foreign countries, or does not form such a highway by 

its connection with ·other waters, and is only navigable between different places within the State, then it is nota navigable water of the United 

States, but only a navigable water of the Srote." 

If at the next session we should learn by the operation of-this amendment that much of the money had been saved because the barbor or river or creek named in the bill was only a navigable water within a State, or, being within a State, was not navigable, or was not navigated, or could not be made n~vigable, the tax-payers -of the country -would 

realize the benefit of this provision. The Hennepin Canal may be thus 

delayed; but if it be the great good to theNorthwestwhich its friends 

claim, the delay may enlist the Northern States to bear a share in proportion t.o their peculiar benefits thereform. 

Why, Mr. Chairman, the State of New York, when it was not yet the · Empire State, when it was scarcely more populous than Connecticut or Maryland, constructed the Erie Canal. I find in this bill the two 

Kanawhas, and am reminded that Washington, in the days of the Potomac Company, in a letter to Governor J ohnsonJ of :Maryland, as early as July 20, 1770, recommended the-connection of these waters on either 

side of the Alleghanies, "upon :J. .moreenlarged plan, as a means of becoming the channel of conveyance of the extensive and valuable trade 

of a rising empire." But he did pot dream of asking Congress alone ~ 

'do it. Virginia and Maryland expended· millions upon the Chesapeake 

and Ohio Canal as it extended toward the Ohio River. 

Now, who in these days expects' the State of West Virginia to go 

hand in hand with Congress in putting locks on the Grea; and Little 

Kanawha? Instead, its demand upon Congress grows infrequency, and we are rapidly nearing the time when the General Government will be 

expected to p1·ovide, where there is a color of nation~l advantage, for 

every -variety of State or local benefit. As a friend of a liberal national 

policy I protest against its abase. Why is it that the apparition of the 

constitutional lawyer, from his ghost-walk on the ·other side of the 

House, does not stalk across the floor in this debate? Can it be that so many of the habitual constitutional lawyers of this House reside 

hard by the green pastures and still waters of the streams now favored 

and first made famous by thls bill, that like the ghost in Hamlet they 

scent the morning air, ancl therefore do not materialize on days when we are. discussing the river and harbor bill? 

Galveston H~bor, too, may wait, having received one and a half 

millions already, until its predicted commerce has still more fully developed. There is probably much of truth in these glowing predictions. But we are asked to expend this money not for the commerce that is, 

but for the commerce that is to be. · · . · ~lr. Chairman, I have heard the committee complain justly and pa- thetically 'of their prolonged sessions, extending far into the even- ings--

[Here the hammer fell. J 

1\Ir. THOMAS. 1\Ir. Chairman, I object to the adoptionofthe pend- . ing propositioJ;t, and I do so upon this ground: It is admitted that un- der the law all these works upon rivers and harbors are to be executed 

under the direction of the Secretary of War, who is but an agent of the 

President of the United States. But this proposition goes further. It 

proposes to take from the legislative branch of this Government the 

rijht to deterlnine where improvements sb~ll be made. It attempts 

to set up the judgment of the Executive over that of the representative 

bodies, the Senate and this House, making the President a virtual dic.- tator to say when and where improvements shall be made. I believe 

this to be contrary to the spirit and genius of our institutions-contrary to the tbeory of our Government. I believe that the power to 

determine these questions is vested in this House and the Senate, no:t 

in the Executive ofthe United States. 

If we should go upon the theory proposed by the gentleiD.a.Jl fi·om 
1885. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1313 

Maryland [Mr. McCOMAS], why is thereanynecessityof our sitting here · Mr. REED, of Maine. What induces the gentleman to make obserand discussing the propriety or impropriety of any measure? Why_ vations to me; I made none to him? . ~ot rel(\,crate the whole sul:Uect to the President·of the United Sta~es, Mr. WILLIS. I am glad to know you have not. 

and let him direct alone where the public money shall be expended Mr. REED, of Maine. I have said nothing to provoke any such atand for what purpose ? . • tack as that. 

I protest against any such idea. ·I believe that it is the duty of .Con- Mr. WILLIS. I understood the gentleman to interject iight there. 

gress to hold on to the trust which has been plaeed in its handS by the • ·Mr. REED, of Maine. I interjected nothiiig. 

people of this country, and to guard"With jealous care every preroga.- Mr. WILLIS. You areTejected then from my remark. 

tive that the Constitution gives it. We have no right to delegate this Mr. REED, of Maine . . I submit on my part, not making any obauthority to the President of the United States, and I hope most ear- servation, the gentleman from Kentucky ought not to preface his mo- nestly that the jealousy with which tbe representatives of the people tion to adjourn by so much advice to this side oftheHouse. I submit 

ought to guard their "rights will prompt them to stand here and vote if he wants to make·a motion to adjourn, that is sufficient. . solidly against this proposition. · Mr. WILLIS. The gentleman from Kentucky has never been guilty 

Mr. STORM obtained the floor and said: I yield my time to the gen- once where the other gentleman has a dozen times, and the rebuke 

tleman from Maryland [Mr. McCoMAs] that he may conclud~ his re- comes with a great deal of grace from him. 

marks. Mr. REED, ofMatne. I think it does. [Laughter.] 

Mr. McCOMAS. I thank the· gentleman for his court.csy. I was Mr. WHITE, of Kentucky. I rise to a question of order. 

about to say-and I sball.soon conclude-when I heard how late they Mr. WILLIS. I rise pursuant to my agreement for the purpose:of 

sat on these short winter days, while they were regaled with accounts moving that the House adjourn. _ · of the pro~ecti ve trade of Galveston, as their eyes wearied with gazing The CHAIRMAN. The committee will first have to rise . . at the magic circles dmwn on the remarkable Galveston map which I Mr. WILLIS. Certainly. I will make the motion that the commithold in my hand, so liberally strewn about our desks to-day, I can fancy tee rise. 

that therein they saw the countless flocks of sheep, traveling in these lli. DUNN. I hope the committee will not rise. 

straightlines, flockingtoward Galveston from haifa continent, and the The CHAIRMAN. The motion is not debatable. 

cattle on· a thousand hills. of the great West "winding slowly o'er .the The committee divided; and there were-ayes 123, noes 37. 

lea'' toward Galveston Harbor. I !roSpect they turned from the map Mr. BRECKL.~RIDGE. I call for tellers. 

toward the hills across the Potomac River and the winter Qvening sky, The CHAIRMAN. The motion is agreed to. 

nowhere brighter than when seen through their committee-room win- The oommittee aecordingly rose; and Mr. BLACKBURN ~ving re- dow; I fancy 'they- snmed the chair as Speaker pro tempore, Mr. HA.Ml)IOND reported that Sa.w the b eo.vens filled with commerce, argosies of ma.glc sails, the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union bad, ac- Pilots of the purple twilight laden down with costly bales. cording to order, had under consideration the bill (H. R. 8130) making 

These visio:as in the sky, the enthusiasm of Captain Eads~ and the appropriations 1or the const.i:-uction, repair, aJ:ld preservation of certain 

imaginative computation of countless bales of cotton that might yet public works on rivers and harbors, and for other purposes, and had come pressing to that market shall not"tempt me to wager $7,000,000 come to no resolution thereon. . of public money upon the opinion of Captain Eads. . .Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I called for tellers on the motion that the 

When specialists differ, "wh~ doctors disagree;" when the Army committe~ ris~, and' th~ chairman disregarded my call. 

engineers and the civil engineers are at variance in opinion on this ques- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair has no know ledg~ of protion, we are to have millions spent upon that barbor as an experiment. ceedings in the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union 

Mr. WILLIS. The gentleman will permit me one word? I know . except as reported. · . 

he does not want to fight "a man of straw;" and· I will say to him Mr. WILLIS . . I move the House do now adjourn. 

that by unanimous vote ofthe Committee on Rivers and Harbors Cap- Mr. DUNN. I hope the House will not adjourn. 

tain Eads is now entirely eliminated from the bill; and the appropria- The SPEAKER pro terhpore. The ayes seem to have it. · tion for Galveston Harbor, which has called forth the denunciation of The motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at 11 o'clock and 59 

the gentleman, has been so amended in the committee that, with the minutes a. m.) the House adJourned. - . e:l.ception of one member-and in this remark I do not.exclude the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. BAYNE]-the appropriation as now agreed upon has the approbation of the whole committee: . 1\Ir. BLANCHARD. I hope the chairman of our committee will 

except me from the statement jn...<>t made. I voted in the committee 

against the '' elimination ' ' of Captain Eads. 

Mr. McCOMAS. Mr. Chairman, I am glad to learn by this disclosure that the ~' man of straw '' has only just now been burned up 

and taken out of this debate. 

11-Ir. WILLIS. And now I hqpe the gentleman will let him rest. 

Mr. McCOMAS. But, Mr. Chairman, it matters not to me whether 

Captain Eads disappears from this bill or not. He is not ''a man of 

straw;'' he is of sterner stuff. I have great respect for him as a man of 

genius; but I am looking to theinterestsofthe people of this country, 

who I believe would have these approprifl,tions so reduced that we may 

save some money for the defense of the harbors we have, and for the 

protection of commerce already thriving. 

The great commerce of Baltimore is already pressing for relief. The 

channel to that great harbor is only deepened one-half its width, 

and actual vessels with present commerce freighted deep must wait, or 

the vessels heavily laden must still go bumping into the sides of the 

submerged banks of the harbor channel, and you propose $75,000 this 

year to aid the present comm~ce of Baltimore, in order to expend this 

year $750,000 for the development Qf commerce which may come. to 

Galveston. Why not apply some of this money to coast defenses, to protecting the harbors you already have, whereon stand great cities stored 

with the grain of half the farmers in America, wherein ride countless 

vessels, all defenseless against the navies of the world? 

Why not build up your Navy, so that we may protect our native and 

naturalized citizens at least against the naval armament of powers like 

Portugal or Chili, or at 18il8t Ecuador. 

Adopt my amendment, and you will, as· I believe, provide for a great 

saving of the money sq;rely needed, where you can alike provide for the common defense and the general welfare. . Mr. WILLIS. On yesterday when I made the motion to take are- cess it was with the understanding that I should make the motion to 

adjourn at this time; and in pursuance of that understanding, while 

I regret we have not made more progress with the river and harbor 

billA MEMBER. I do not. 

:Mr. WILLIS. I know the gentleman does not; I never think fot_ 

him. · · . 

XVI-83 

PETITIONS, ETC. 

The following petitions and papers were laid on the Clerk's desk, 

under the rule, and referred as follows: . 

By Mr. BLANCH'ARD: Papers relating to the claim ofT. B. Planche's widow, of Nawhitoches Parish, Louisiana-to the Committee on War Claims. · 

Also, papers relating to the claim of Fanny M. Wells- and Ida. F. Wells, 

of Rapides Parish, Louisiana-to the same committee. · 

By Mr. DUNN: Petition of John P. Moore, of Helena, Ark., praying 

for reference of his claim tb the Court of Claims under act of March 

3, 1884-to the same committee. . By Mr. T. J. HENDERSON: Petition of Mrs. J. Benedict and 38 

others, ladies of Arlington and Lamoillee, Ill., praying for early action on the Mormon question-to the Cominittee on the Judiciary. · 

· By Mr. HERBERT: Joint resolution and memorial of the Legislature of Alabama, urging an appropriation for the improvement of the 

Coosa River-to the Committee on Rivers and Harbo:rS. 

By Mr. HOPKINS: Petitions ofcitizensofPittsburgh, Pa.,·in favor 

of improvement of the Alleghany River-:-to the same committee. 

Also, petition of 146 employes and owners_of Pittsburgh Plate-Glass 

Company, in favor of improvement of the Alleghany River-to the same committee. 

By Mr. KEAN: Petition of citizens of Elizabeth, N. J., urging action 

by Co:Qgre...c::s' upon bills for the suppression of Mormonism-to the Committee on the Judiciary. · · Also, petition of citizens of Plainfield, N: J., urging action by Congress upon bills for the suppression of Mormonism-to ·the same com- mittee. 

By Mr .. LOWRY: Petition of 10 citizens of Albion, Noble Connty, 

Indiana, for the passage of the Mor!Ilon bill-to the same committee. 

By Mr. McMILLIN: Petition of B. M. Cantrell, E. W. Taylor, J. W. 

Foutch, G. :R. Smith & Son, J. W. McCarty, and 30 other citizens of 

De Kalb County, Tennessee, asking for the improvement of the Caney 

Fork River by locks and dams-to the Committee oil Rivers and Harbors. 

By Mr. MAYBURY: Petition of AP.ce E. Bartholomew, guardian of • 

John Winchell, a. survivor of the war of 1812, asking for arrears of 

pensions-to the Committee on Pensions. 

By :Mr. P .A.TTON: Petition of citizens of Clarion County, Pennsylvania, asking for the passage of the Loverhlg bill (H. R. 6463)-to the 

Committee on Invalid Pensions. 
1314 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--SENATE. FEBRUARY 6, 

By Mr. PERKINS: Petition of H. A. Hicks and 39 others, honorably disch~rged officers, soldie~, and sailol'S of the late war, asking for legislation granting a land-warrantofone hundred .and sixtyacresofland 

without the condition of-settlement to every honorably discharged officer, soldier, and sailor, or their widows and orphans, of the late war- totheSelectCommitteeop.PaymentofPensions,Bounty,andBackPay .• By Mr. PETTIBONE: Petition of A. G. Cadle, of Tazewell, Tenn., 

asking pay for certain quartermaster stores taken and used by United 

States troops-to the Committee on War Claims. _ By Mr. SHIVELY: Petition of B. F. Stephens and60others, citizens 

of Elkhart, Ind., praying for legislation _on th~ Mormon question-to 

the Commit:tee on the Judiciary. 

By Mr. C. R. SKINNER: Petition of Silas Davis, of Chaumont, N. 

Y., with accompanying papers, asking Congress to pay him for a cargo 

of stone lost in -Lake Ontario-to the Committee on Claims. 

By Mr. VAN ALSTYNE: Pe\ition of Rev. J. D. Countermine and 

many others, citizens of Albany, N.Y., praying CongresstD take early 

action on the Morn1on question-to the Committee on the Judiciary. 

By Mr. MILO WHITE: Petition of 59 citizens of Austin, Minn., for an increase of widows' pensions-to the Committee on Pensions. 

By Mr. E. B. WINANS: Resolutionofthe board of control ofState 

swamp lands 9f the State of Michigan, relative to accretions adjacent to 

·Maison Island, in Saginaw Bay-to the Committee on the Public Lands. · 

Also, concurrent resolution of the Michigan Legislature, relative to 

the purchase of the Lake Superior and Portage Lake Canal by the General Governmenb-to the Co~ttee on Rivers and }Jarbors. 

The following petitions for the p~ge of the Mexican war pension 

bill with Senate amendments were presented, and severally referred to 

the Committee on Pensions: , By_ Mr. BOUTELLE: Of W. C: Clark and others, of Lincoln, Me. 

By ~Ir. T. M. BROWNE: Of 55 ex-soldiers of Rush County, Indiana. 

By Mr. J. E. CAMPBELL: Of citizens of Clermont and of Butler 

· Counties, Ohio. 

By Mr. CONVERSE: Of G. S. Innis and 13 others, citizens of Columbus; of A. M. Call and 26. others, citizens of Swan, Hocking County; of 

J. M. French and64 others, citizensofNew Lexington, Perry County; 

of Peter Halland 102 others, citi?.ens of Marcy, Fairfield County; of C. 

C. Kagyand 111others, citizensofBremen; of J. H. Brandtand63others, 

citizens of Carroll; of R. T. Field and 57 others, citizens of Columb'l:lS; 

and of M. Hetnl and 58 others, citizens of Columbus, Ohio. 

By Mr. W ... W~ CULBERTSON: _0f129 voters of Soldier, Ky. 

By Mr. DINGLEY: Of citizens of Appleton and of Newcastle, Me. 

By Mr. ENGLISH: Of E. Marsh and 128 others, citizens of Hancock 

County, Indiana. · By Mr. FERRELL: Of citizens of Cumberland and of Gloucester 

Counties, New·Jersey. · By Mr. FUNSTO~: Of citizens of Crouse, ofBaldwin City, of Richmona, and of Burdge ville, Kans. . . By Mr. ~ORGE: Of citizens ofthe State of Oregon. . By Mr. HANBACK: Of· Edward Rickett and 23 others, of Lincoln 

County, Kansas. - By. Mr. H. H. HATCH : Of citizens of Adams, of Shelby', of Cheboygan, of Tuscola, of Emmet, and of Putnam Counties, Michigan. 

By Mr. HENLEY: Of·citizens-of Bn~, of Sonoma, and of Shasta 

Counties, California. 

By Mr. B. W. JONES: Of 107 citizens· of Boaz, Wis. 

By Mr. KEAN: Of 63 citizens of Keyport, of 59 citizens of 1\Iatawan, 

and of 43 citizens of Asbury Park, N. J. 

By Mr. KEIFER: Of S.D. Converse and 123 others, of Plain City, · Ohio. 

By Mr. KLEINER: Of ex-soldiers of Otwell; and of Gentryville, Ind. . 

By Mr. LACEY: Of James S. Perry and 13 others, of Nashville, 

1\Iich. 

By Mr. LONG: OfW. W. Manson and182others, of Scituate; ofW. 

H. Wade and 38 others, of Plainville; and of Charles L. Weeden and 

126 others, of New Bedford, Mass. 

By Mr. MITCHELL: Of soldiers of Menden, of Guilford, of Middletown, and of New Haven, Conn. 

By Mr. MORRILL: 0£ John Nuzman and 57 others, of Soldier, and 

of B. F. Whitaker and 53 others, of Pardee, Atchison County, Kansas. 

By Mr. NEECE: Of citizens of Warren, of Schuyler, and of Rock 

Island Counties, illinois. 

By Mr. PETERS: Of 218 ex-soldiers of Stafford County, .Kansas. 

By· Mr. PETTffiONE: Of N. T. Beal and 170 others, and of John 

Altom and 63 others, of Ibwkins County, Tennessee. 

By Mr. PHELPS: Of citizens of Morris County, New :Jersey. 

By Mr. gssiANRA~: OfF. L.Moultonand9others, ofWestCamp, 

ton; of Levi B. Laney and 68 others, of East Weare and North Weareand of Sanborn M. Crockett and 72 others, of Plymouth, N. H. 

By Mr. RIGGS: Of J. M. Bush and 105 others, of ·Pittsfield; of 

George M. Forsyth and 51 others, of Virginia, and of Da-vid H. Dunmire and 39 others, of Cooperstown, ill. . · 

By Mr. ROBERTSON: Of citizens of Chicago, Marion County, Kenucky. 

By Mr. RUSSELL: Of Benjamin A. Bridges and 118 others, of Holliston; ofS.l\I.Cross and 39 others, of Newburyport, and of C. B. Garfield and 68 others, of Templeton, Mass. . _ By ~fr. SEYMOUR: Of Jaoob Wolf and others, of South Norwalk; 

of A. Bates and othen;, of Lakeville; of George S. Partrie and others, of 

Norwalk; of Caleb Wood and othe1-s, of South Norwalk, and of J. W. 

French and others, of Georgetown, Conn. 

By Mr. SHIVELY: Of Williain Anderson and 50 others, citizens of 

Stark County; of J. E. Vail and 111 others, citizens of La Porte County, 

and· of J. S. Neely and 59 others, citizens of Marshall County, Indiana. 

By Mr. H. Y. SMITH: Of W. W. Long and .47 others, citizens of 

Pleasantville, Marion County, Iowa. • 

By Mr. SPRIGGS: Of citizens of Annsville, ofVienna, and of Utica, 

Oneida County, New York. 

By Mr. STOCKSLAGER: Of Thomas Young and 43 others1 citizens of 

Evans's Landing; of W. W. Sloan and 122 others, citizens of Crawford 

County; of J. E. Enlow and 54 others, citizens of Scott County; of W. 

S. Taylor ari.d 83 others, citizens of Butlerville; of 100 citizens of Clark 

County, of 65 citizens of Tampico, and of 53 citizens of Palmyra, Ind. 

By Mr. STRUBLE: Of J. S. Toliver and 64 others, citizens of Greene 

County, and of W. H. H. Petty and 62 others, citizens of Woodbury 

County, Iowa. 

By Mr. WAKEFIELD: Of B. F. Goodwin and 136 others, of Winnebago City, Minn. 

By ~Ir. WARD: Of citizens of Middle Fork, of Summitville, and of 

Dayton, Ind. · • . · By Mr. WEAVER: Of Omaha {Nebr.) Union Veteran Club, seven hundred and thirty-eight names. · ~ 

By M:r. WILKINS: Of 101 citizens of Coshocton Colinty, a_nd 103 

citizens of Canal Dover, Ohio. . By ~Ir. WOODWARD: Of citizens of Monroe, of Richland, and of 

Vernon Counties, Wis~:-'Onsin. 

SENATE. 

FRIDAY, Feb>·uary 6, 1885. 

Prayer by Rev.:J. J. BULLOCK, D. D., of the city of Washington. 

The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read_ and approved. 

CREDEN~rALS. 

The PRESIDENT pro t(llfll,pore presented the credentials of JoHN J. 

INGALLS, chosen by the Legislature of Kansas a Senator from that 

State for the term commencing l\1arch 4, 1885; wh~ch were read, and 

ordered to be filed. 

EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempore laid before the Senate a communication from the Secretary of the Treasury, transmitting a communication from the Supervising Architect of that Department recommending 

that the limit of COBt of the proposed public building at Louisville, 

Ky., be extended to $1,500,000, and concurring in such recommendation; which, with the aecompanying papers, was referred to the Co:tnmittee on Public BUildings and Gro~ds, and ordered to be printed. 

He also laid before the Se.p.ate a communication from the Secretary 

of War, requesting the printing of 2,000 additional copies of Lieutenant Ray's report of the international polar expedition. to Point Barrow, 

Alaska, for· dil:3tribution by the Chief Signal Officer of the Army; which was referred to the Committee on Printing, and ordered to be printed. 

He also laid before the Senate a cOmmunication from the PostmasterGeneral, stating, in response to a resolution of the 4th instant, that the erasures and interlineations in the documentary history of the railway 

xp.ail service were simply the resu1t of the final revision of the docu~ 

ment, and not to be taken as a part of it; which was referred to the-Committee on Printing, and ordered to be printed. 

PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS. 

The PRESIDENT pro tempo1re presented a memorial of the Legislative Assembly of the Territory of Montana, urging the ena<Jtment of 

such national laws as shall thoroughly stamp out all contagions cattle 

diseases, and prohibit the influx of Texan or other infected cattle into 

that Territory; which was referred to the Committee on Agriculture 

and Forestry. 

He also presented the petition of John Plemer, late private Twentysecond Ohio Volunteer Infantry, praying that he may be allowed a pension; which was referred to" the Committee on Pensions. 

He also presented the petition of F. H. Plqm"Q. A. S. Cosgrove, Charles 

Campbe~, and M. F. Barry, of Wisconsin; and the petition of Thomas 

Walsh and Thomas Hughes, of Eirin Prairie, Wis., praying for such 

legislatiop as shall prohibit railroads betweei,l States from charging more for a short than for a long distance; which were ordered to lie on the 

table. 

Mr. FRYE presented the memorial of F. 0. Additon and others; the 

memorial of J. B. Mason and others; the memorial of W. H. Norton 

&!nd others; the memorial of F. B .. Andrews and others; the memorial 

of Thomas Lane and others; the memorial of Carrie E. Alden and 

•