OIC-302 (Rev. 8-19-94, 

827 

- 1 - 

OFFICE OF THE IN?)EPENDENT COUNSEL 

Date of transcription 2/24/98 

CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS was telephonically contacted in 

Tokyo, Japan. DAVIS was advised of the caller's identity and 

purpose of the contact. She agreed to be interviewed regarding 

her relationship with MONICA S. LEWINSKY. 

DAVIS said that she met LEWINSKY at Lewis and Clark 

College in Portland, Oregon, in the fall of 1994. They became 

good friends and LEWINSKY was one of her bridesmaids in her 

wedding in April of 1997. After LEWINSKY moved to Washington, 

D.C., in June of 1995, they stayed in touch by phone and e-mail 

on a regular basis. She considers LEWINSKY a very close and 

personal friend. 

DAVIS stated that she received e-mails from LEWINSKY 

originating from a computer at the Department of Defense. DAVIS 

does not recall whether LEWINSKY has a personal comput.er. She 

was never asked by LEWINSKY to remove, erase, destroy, or delete 

e-mails sent to her from LEWINSKY. She has not saved LEWINSKY 

e-mails, but she may have some of her most recent e-mails on her 

computer. DAVIS was requested by Special Agent (SA) COURTNEY 

WEST to maintain possession of these documents and not to destroy 

them. DAVIS said she would maintain possession of the records. 

When asked to discuss any knowledge she may have 

regarding an alleged relationship between LEWINSKY and President 

CLINTON, DAVIS stated that she preferred not to discuss this 

topic at this time. She also declined to discuss any knowledge 

of telephone cassette tapes, the existence of a navy blue dress 

belonging to LEWINSKY, or presents LEWINSKY may have given 

President CLINTON. DAVIS then advised that her parents were 

attempting to retain an attorney in Washington, D.C., and that 

she had been advised to be cautious in discussing certain issues. 

DAVIS further advised that she would contact SA WEST as soon as 

they obtained the services of an attorney. 

(telephonically) 

Investigation on 2/23/98 at Washington, D.C. File % 29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Date dictated 2/24/98 
828 

OIC-302a (Rev. 8-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuation of OK-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS .On s/23/98 ,Page 2 

DAVIS provided her address as follows: 

CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS 

Telephone Number: 

DAVIS advised that her former telephone number 

'fhad been assigned as a temporary number and had been 

replaced by 
829 

OIC-302 (Rev. 8-19-w) 

-lOFFICE OF THE JXDEPENDENT COUNSEL 

Date of ttansctiption 03/20/98 

CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS, white female, date of birth 

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N-W., Washington, D-C., pursuant'to a 

proffer agreement signed on March 16, 1998, by her attorney and 

representatives of the OIC. DAVIS was interviewed in the 

presence of her attorneys, JAMES A. BENSFIELD and MARY LOU 

SOLLER. Also participating in the interview were Deputy 

Independent Counsel SOL WISENBERG and Associate Independent 

Counsel MARY ANNE WIRTH. DAVIS provided the following: 

DAVIS is currently living in Tokyo, Japan, with her 

husband. DAVIS currently is employed by PHOENIX ASSOCIATES as a 

part-time employee. DAVIS teaches English to Japanese business 

people. DAVIS's husband, CHRISTOPHER DAVIS, is employed by 

UNITED GRAIN CORPORATION, Portland, Oregon, but is currently 

working with YAMAMIZA CORPORATION in Tokyo. DAVIS intends on 

returning t 

residing at 

DAVIS advised that she graduated from Lewis and.Clark 

College in 1995. DAVIS met MONICA LEWINSKY while attending Lewis 

and Clark College in the fall of 1994. They became friends at . 

that time, and they remain very close friends. DAVIS stated that 

before the LEWINSKY story hit they contacted each other at least 

once a week.- 

In response to a Federal Grand Jury Subpoena,-DAVIS 

turned over three greeting cards from MONICA LEWINSKY. -DAVIS 

also turned over numerous e-mail communications between DAVIS and 

LEWINSKY, and the lap-top computer DAVIS used to.communicate with 

LEWINSKY. 

DAVIS advised that during the first or second week of 

'February 1998, DAVIS decided to erase her e-mail communications 

with LEWINSKY. DAVIS stated that she only talked it over with 

Investigation on 03/16/98 It Washington, D.C. FileX 29D-OIC-LR-35063 

. 
830 

OlC-302a (R:*. 8-19-W) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuation cf OK-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS .On 03/18/98 , Pant 2 

her.husband, and decided to erase the e-mails for a number of 

reasons. DAVIS did not want -the e-mails to fall into someone 

else's hands, especially the press. ' DAVIS felt the need to 

protect her privacy. The computer belonged to CHRISTOPHER 

DAVIS's company. DAVIS advised that she did not realize that the 

Office of the Independent Counsel's investigation was a criminal 

investigation. DAVIS meant to erase all e-mails from LEWINSKY, 

but failed to do so. DAVIS believed some items were erased. 

DAVIS advised that no one asked or forced he* to erase the abovementioned e-mails. 

DAVIS stated that she visited LBWINSKY in Washington, 

D.C., in August of 1995, for five days. At the time, LEWINSKY 

was a White House intern working in the Old Executive Office 

Building (OEOB) . DAVIS toured the White House with LEWINSKY. 

DAVIS and LEWINSKY discussed post-graduate life. LEWINSKY told 

DAVIS that LEWINSKY liked her job, and hoped to stay in 

Washington, D-C., after her internship. 

After DAVIS's return to Oregon she stayed in touch with 

LEWINSKY through telephone calls. DAVIS and LEWINSKY spoke on 

the telephone at least once a week and, at times, more often than 

that. DAVIS stated that DAVIS lived in Portland, Oregon, from 

May of 1995 until April of 1997. DAVIS was married in December 

of 1996, in Hawaii, and LEWINSKY attended the wedding as a 

bridesmaid. 

DAVIS advised that DAVIS and LBWINSKY had e-mail 

contact from-January 1997 through March 1997. DAVIS used several 

computers at Portland State University to contact LEWINSKY. 

DAVIS recalled that LEWINSKY was working at the Pentagon at the 

time. 

DAVIS stated that LEWINSKY kept DAVIS updated about 

LEWINSKY's work in Washington, D.C. DAVIS related that LEWINSKY 

moved from the OEOB to a job at the Office of Legislative Affairs 

(0L.A) .DAVIS believed that at some point LBWINSKY also worked in 

the Chief of Staff's Office (COSO). LEWINSKY told DAVIS that 

LEWINSKY had retained a permanent job at the White House, and 

that LEWINS,KY was happy with this. LEWINSKY told DAVIS this 

contemporaneously to when it happened. LBWINSKY talked about 

people she worked with. DAVIS recalled TRACY Last Name Unknown 
831 

OK-302a (Rev. 8-19-W) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuation of OIC-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS .On 03/18/98 *Page 3 

(LNU), LEON PANETTA, and EVELYN LIEBERMAN specifically being 

mentioned. 

LEWINSKY also told DAVIS about problems she had at 

work. LEWINSKY felt she was not liked in general.‘ DAVIS stated 

LEWINSKY had a problem with EVELYN LIEBERMAN. DAVIS could not 

recall the exact nature of the problem. 

LEWINSKY mentioned President WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON 

on numerous occasions to DAVIS. LEWINSKY described seeing the 

President at various White House functions. LEWINSKY described 

the President noticing her and saying hello to her. . 

In late 1995 or early 1996, LEWINSKY told DAVIS that 

LEWINSKY had "gotten together" with the President. LEWINSKY 

asked DAVIS not to tell anyone other than DAVIS's husband. DAVIS 

has not told anyone of these conversations, other than her 

husband. LEWINSKY stated that during the first private meeting 

she had with the President, they kissed and the President touched 

her breasts. LEWINSKY and the President met in the small room 

off the Oval Office. 

LEWINSKY told DAVIS of numerous private meetings she 

had wi.th the President from this time through late 1997. 

LEWINSKY described to DAVIS a sexual relationship in which 

LEWINSKY would meet the President in a small room off of the Oval 

Office. LEWINSKY described sivins the President oral sex on 

President touched LEWINSKY's vagina with his hand. LEWINSKY 

stated that the President inserted an object (a five-letter word) 

more often used for smoking into LEWINSKY's,vagina. DAVIS stated 

that LEWINSKY did not tell her that the President performed oral 

sex on LEWINSKY. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that LEWINSKY wanted to 

have sexual intercourse with the President. The President would 

not do this, and told LEWINSKY that sexual intercourse between 

them was a "bad idea." 

I,EWINSKY told DAVIS that there was a fear of being 

caught by other people while engaging in sexual activity with the 

President. LEWINSKY described a couple of close calls when 

. 
OIC-302a (Rev. S-19-94). 

832 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuation of OK-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS .On 03/18/98 . Page 4 

LEWINSKY and the President were almost discovered by others. 

DAVIS recalls LEWINSKY telling DAVIS about someone who was 

looking for the President, and that LEWINSKY and the President 

were almost caught together engaging in sexual activity. 

LEWINSKY told DAVIS that BETTY CURRIE would assist in 

setting up private meetings between LEWINSKY and the President. 

DAVIS believed that either CURRIE would call LEWINSKY or LEWINSKY 

would call CURRIE. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that' CURRIE would try to 

find a time when the President was available. These meetings 

would occur both during the week and on the weekend. Some of the 

meetings occurred at night. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that LEWINSKY 

liked and trusted CURRIE. LEWINSKY did not tell DAVIS that 

CURRIE knew LEWINSKY and the President were having a sexual 

relationship. 

LEWINSKY told DAVIS that at times LEWINSKY and the 

President would talk during certain private meetings. The 

President talked about the death of his mother. According to 

LEWINSKY, LEWINSKY and the President would talk about politics, 

and emotional matters. The President told LEWINSKY that he 

loved, respected, and wished to spend the rest of his life with 

the First Lady. 

LEWINSKY told DAVIS that the President would call her 

at home on the telephone. The President would'call LEWINSKY late 

at night. LEWINSKY told DAVIS they had "phone sex" on several 

occasions. This occurred more than five times, but less than ten 

times. DAVIS advised that this happened after LEWINSKY went to 

work at the Pentagon. DAVIS stated that on two occasions 

LEWINSKY played voice mail messages left by the President. DAVIS 

advised that at this time DAVIS lived in Portland, Oregon, and 

that LEWINSKY played the messages over the telephone. DAVIS 

stated that the voice played sounded like the President, and that 

on both occasions he was trying to keep his voice down. The 

first message the President stated: "Aw shucks, I want to talk 

to you. n The second message was, "Oh, you‘re not at home." Both 

messages were left at night while LEWINSKY had been out. 

DAVIS advised that she never doubted LEWINSKY 

concerning LEWINSKY's relationship with the President. DAVIS 
833 

OK-3021 (Rev. 8-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuation of OIC-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS .on 03/18/98 .pagc 5 

knew LEWINSKY to be truthful, and DAVIS had no reason to doubt 

LEWINSKY. 

DAVIS stated thAt at some point LEWINSKY began 

referring to the President as the "big creep." LEWINSKY also 

referred to the President as handsome. DAVIS believes that 

LEWINSKY called the President "handsome" as a term of endearment. 

DAVIS recalled LEWINSKY telling DAVIS that LEWINSKY was 

putting a Valentine's Day message in the newspaper for the 

President. LEWINSKY read this message over the telephone to 

DAVIS. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that she discussed the message with 

the President. 

DAVIS advised that she and LEWINSKY talked about other 

people who knew that LEWINSKY was having a sexual relationship 

with the President. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that LEWINSKY's mother; 

LEWINSKY's aunt, DEBRA FINERMAN; ASHLEY RAIN-ES; LINDA TRIPP; 

NATALIE Last Name Unknown (NATALIE UNGVARI); and NEASA Last Name 

Unknown (NEASA ERBLAND); all knew about LEWINSKY's relationship 

with the President. 

DAVIS stated that LEWINSKY told DAVIS that LEWINSKY was 

being moved from the White House in April of 1996. DAVIS.advised 

that there were different reasons for the move according to 

LEWINSKY. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that LEWINSKY's.office was being 

dissolved. LEWINSKY did not believe this. LEWINSKY felt that 

White House personnel were upset with LEWINSKY, as she was too 

close to the-president. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that EVELYN 

LIEBERMAN did not like LEWINSKY. LIEBERMAN told LEWINSKY that 

LEWINSKY was too "flirty," and that LEWINSKY acted and dressed 

inappropriately. LEWINSKY stated that LIEBERMAN was the catalyst 

to LEWINSKY being moved. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that she was being 

given a new job at the Pentagon. 

DAVIS advised that LEWINSKY told her that after April 

of 1996, LEWINSKY saw the President less frequently. LEWINSKY 

told DAVIS that it was more difficult to get in to see the 

President. LEWINSKY was frustrated at being at the Pentagon. 

LEWINSKY trjed to get another job at the White House. LEWINSKY 

hoped to be back at the White House after the election. LEWINSKY 

discussed being friends with the President. The President told 
834 

OK-302a (Ret. 8-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

ContinuationofOIC-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS .on 03/18/98 .Pagc 6 

LEWINSKY that he did not have control over the situation, %and did 

not have much input in bringing LEWINSKY back. LEWINSKY did not 

believe the President. 

LEWINSKY discussed with DAVIS visits to the White House 

to see the President after LEWINSKY went to the Pentagon. 

LEWINSKY would arrange these meetings through BETTY CURRIE. 

LEWINSKY expressed frustration over her limited access to the 

President. Around this time the President told LEWINSKY that 

their relationship should stop. DAVIS stated she could not 

recall the exact reason the President gave LEWINSKY for this, but 

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON was part of the reason. However,' 

according to LEWINSKY, her relationship with the President did 

not stop. LEWINSKY would not speak to the President at times for 

weeks, but the relationship continued until December of 1997. 

DAVIS stated that LEWINSKY told her that LEWINSKY had 

given gifts to the President. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that she had 

given the President neckties and a book titled The Notebook. 

DAVIS believed that LEWINSKY also gave the President a frog 

figurine that the President kept in his study off of the Oval 

Office. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that the President would wear the 

ties LEWINSKY gave him, and ask DAVIS to watch the news on a 

particular night to see the President wearing this tie. DAVIS 

recalled these gifts would have been given by LEWINSKY in 1996. 

DAVIS stated that LEWINSKY told her that the.President 

had given LEWINSKY gifts. LEWINSKY described a hat pin the 

President had given her. LEWINSKY liked this gift, and wore it. 

LEWINSKY told DAVIS the President gave her a hard-cover copy of 

Leaves of Grass by WALT WHITMAN. DAVIS advised that thebook may 

have been a birthday gift to LEWINSKY. The President also gave 

LEWINSKY a cup, T-shirts, and a green-cotton dress from the BLACK 

DOG RESTAURANT in Martha's Vineyard. LEWINSKY told DAVIS .that 

the dress was too big. DAVIS advised that, according to 

LEWINSKY, BETTY CURRIE would give LEWINSKY the gifts from the 

President. 

At some point during the summer of 1997, LEWINSKY told 

DAVIS that&EWINSKY wanted to move out of Washington, D.C. 

LEWINSKY's mother had moved to New York, and LEWINSKY realized 

her relationship with the President was not going anywhere. 
OIC-302a (Rev. 8-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuation of OIC-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS ,on 03/18/98 .Page 7 

LEWINSKY was becoming more and more frustrated with not being 

able to get another job at the White House. LEWINSKY told DAVIS 

that LEWINSKY blamed the "LIEBERMAN crew" for keeping her out of 

the White House. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that LEWINSKY had words 

about this with MARSHA SCOTT. LEWINSKY also blamed the President 

for not helping her get back to a White House position. 

Shortly thereafter, LEWINSKY began to look for a 

private-sector job in New York City. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that 

the President would help LEWINSKY find a job in New York. The 

President told LEWINSKY that he would call people for her, and 

actively help her. 

DAVIS believes that the President set up an interview 

with U-N. Ambassador WILLIAM RICHARDSON. According to LEWINSKY, 

the President gave LEWINSKY a pep talk about the interview to 

calm her down. DAVIS stated that DAVIS spoke with LEWINSKY on 

the telephone two or three times during the fall of 1997. 

LEWINSKY would have told DAVIS about the President helping her 

find a job in New York during these telephone calls. 

LEWINSKY also told DAVIS that the President set up a 

meeting for LEWINSKY with VERNON JORDAN. JORDAN was considered 

the President's best friend. 

job in New York. 

JORDAN was to help LEWINSKY.find a 

LEWINSKY told DAVIS that she enjoyed meeting 

JORDAN, and she felt better that JORDAN would help her. DAVIS. 

then stated that DAVIS was not sure if the President had asked 

JORDAN to help LEWINSKY. 

DAVIS was asked about an e-mail she received on 

November 6, 1997, from LEWINSKY.' DAVIS read the e-mail. DAVIS 

advised that the e-mail discussed LEWINSKY meeting with-VERNON 

JORDAN. JORDAN told LEWINSKY, "We're in business." DAVIS stated 

that this meant that JORDAN would help LEWINSKY find a job. 

According to the e-mail, 

recommended.18 

JORDAN stated that LEWINSKY came "highly 

DAVIS advised that this was an allusion to 

LEWINSKY's relationship with the President. 

e-mail, 

According to the 

LEWINSKY thought this was humorous, in light of the fact 

that LEWINSKY had a sexual relationship with the President. 

DAVIS advised that DAVIS did not find it odd that JORDAN and the 

President were trying to help LEWINSKY find a private-sector job 

in New York. 
836 

OIC-302a (Rev. 8-1945) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuation of OIC-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS .OII 03/18/98 ,Page 8 

DAVIS stated that DAVIS and LEWINSKY also had a 

telephone conversation about JORDAN. JORDAN secured an interview 

for LEWINSKY at BURSON-MARSTELLER. DAVIS believes that JORDAN 

set up other interviews for LEWINSKY in New York, including 

AMERICAN EXPRESS. DAVIS advised that LEWINSKY decided, around 

this time, not to take the United Nations job, as LEWINSKY felt 

it would entail too much travel and be similar to her Pentagon 

job. LEWINSKY told DAVIS that U-N. Ambassador RICHARDSON called 

LEWINSKY, unexpectedly, and caught LEWINSKY off guard. 

DAVIS was asked to look at e-mail from May 27, 1997, 

from DAVIS to LEWINSKY. In the e-mail LEWINSKY stated that she 

was 'hurting." 

"hurting," 

DAVIS stated that she was unsure why LEWINSKY was 

as discussed in the e-mail. DAVIS stated that the 

reference was not necessarily regarding LBWINSKY's relationship 

with the President. 

DAVIS was asked to look at e-mail she sent to LEWINSKY 

on June 3, 1997. DAVIS explained, 

e-mail, 

after reading the 

that LEWINSKY had told DAVIS that LEWINSKY was on an 

emotional roller coaster. LEWINSKY remarked about a "bad 

Saturday" LEWINSKY had, and DAVIS advised that this probably had 

to do with LEWINSKY's relationship with the President. 

DAVIS was asked to look at e-mail LEWINSKY sent'DAVIS 

on June 5, 1997. DAVIS explained that LEWINSKY referred to the 

President as the big creep. 

to help LEWINSKY find a job, 

LEWINSKY felt that CURRIE was trying 

but LEWINSKY also believed that the 

President had lied to her about calling an-unnamed woman at the 

National Security Council (NSC) about LEWINSKY getting a job 

there. LEWINSKY had called this woman's assistant, .-d-she had 

never heard of LEWINSKY. 

DAVIS was asked to look at an e-mail DAVIS sent tb 

LEWINSKY on June 6, 1997. DAVIS stated that she had replied to 

LEWINSKY's e-mail of June 5, 1997. DAVIS stated she was 

encouraging LEWINSKY to look for a private-sector job. 

DAVIS looked at an e-mail LEWINSKY sent to DAVIS on 

June 9, 19&7,,. DAVIS advised that LEWINSKY sent a package for the 

President to BETTY CURRIE. DAVIS stated that LEWINSKY told her 

that items LEWINSKY wanted the President to get would go through 
837 

OIC-302a (Rx 8-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuanon of OIC-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS ,OII 03/18/98 .Pagc 9 

CURRIE. This included both gifts and various correspondence. 

LEWINSKY had told DAVIS that LEWINSKY sent cards and letters to 

the President. LEWINSKY had read several of these letters to 

DAVIS. DAVIS stated that some were emotional and expressed 

frustration with the President, and the fact that‘he had no time 

to see her or find her a job. DAVIS could not recall if MARCIA 

SCOTT was mentioned in these letters. 

DAVIS reviewed an e-mail LEWINSKY .had sent her on 

June 17, 1997. DAVIS advised that the "Evelyn Story" concerned 

EVELYN LIEBERMAN telling LEWINSKY she exhibited inappropriate 

behavior in the White House. LEWINSKY then detailed a ' 

conversation she had with MARCIA SCOTT about LEWINSKY getting a 

job at the National Security Council. DAVIS stated that LEWINSKY 

realized that the President did not really want LEWINSKY back at 

the White House, and that SCOTT was making sure that LEWINSKY did 

not return. 

DAVIS reviewed an e-mail DAVIS sent LEWINSKY on 

August 1, 1997. KATHLEEN WILLEY is mentioned. DAVIS advised 

that LEWINSKY had sent DAVIS an article about WILLEY. LEWINSKY 

had described WILLEY as LINDA TRIPP's friend, and TRIPP had told 

LEWINSKY about WILLEY having a short "fling" with the President. 

DAVIS stated DAVIS had not been interested in the WILLEY matter 

described to her by LEWINSKY. 

DAVIS advised that LEWINSKY never told DAVIS that 

LEWINSKY was to be a witness in the PAULA JONES case. LEWINSKY 

never mentioned preparing an affidavit for that case. LEWINSKY 

never mentioned VERNON JORDAN either discussing the JONES case 

with LEWINSKY or getting LEWINSKY a lawyer to represent-her 

regarding the JONES case. LEWINSKY did tell DAVIS, in a 

telephone conversation, that LEWINSKY was on a witness list for 

the PAULA JONES case. LEWINSKY was nervous about this. LEWINSKY 

did not know whether LEWINSKY would tell the truth or lie. 

LEWINSKY, in the past, had told DAVIS that in a non-court 

situation she would lie if asked about her relationship with the 

President. 

DAVIS was worried for LEWINSKY, as a friend. DAVIS 

told LEWINSKY to protect herself and put herself first. DAVIS 

stated that LEWINSKY had told LEWINSKY's mother that she was on 
838 

OIC-302a (Rev. S-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Conrinuation of OIC-302 of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS ,On 03/18/98 ,~age 10 

the'witness list. DAVIS did not know how LEWINSKY found out she 

was on a witness list. LEWINSKY also told DAVIS that, in the 

past I LEWINS'KY had told the President that she would not reveal 

their relationship and hurt him. 

DAVIS advised that she has not talked to LEWINSKY since 

early January of 1998. On February 6, 1998, DAVIS sent an e-mail 

to LEWINSKY's father. This e-mail expressed support for MONICA 

LEWINSKY, and asked Dr. LEWINSKY to convey to MONICA .LEWINSKY, 

DAVIS's desire to speak with her. MONICA LEWINSKY's attorney, 

WILLIAM GINSBERG, telephoned DAVIS's father in Hawaii after that, 

to say that LEWINSKY was all right, and to thank DAVIS for the 

message. 
839 

- 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3/l 7198 

Grand Jury 

Page 1 to Page 189 

CONDENSED TRANSCRIPT AND CONCORDANCE 

PREPARED BY: 

OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL 

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. 

Suite 490-North 

Washington, DC 20004 

Phone: 202-5 14-8688 

FAX: 202-5 14-8802 
840 

Catherine Alldav Davis. 3/17/98 XMAX! ’

.._I__-- -~-.~~~.. ~--- --~~ --- -~ 

Page 7 

0 Okay. And you were not under either civil or 

I:;criminal subpoena at the time. Is that correct? 

131 A Thats ’ correct. 

Q And I understand you were not successful in ez.rng 

f:!all of them. Is that correct? 

Page 1 

111 UNITED STATES DXSTRICT CDUR? 

FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLLP%IA 

[*,- _ _ - - ^ - - - - - - - - - - x 

131xn re: 

iri 

[S]GBAND JURY PROCEEDINGS 

(61 

IR1 Grand Jury ROom NO. 3 .-a 

191 

,l"l 

Unlted Sates Distract Court 

for the District of Columbra L--I 

1111 3rd & Ccnstltution. N.W. 

[I21 Washinqton. D.C. 20001 

1131 Tuesday. March 17, 1996 

1141 The cesrmony of CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS was taken 

[15)in the presence of a full quorum of Grand Jury 97-2. 

116llmpaneled on September 19. 1997, coInmer.cing at 1O:Ol a.m. 

il7jbeiore: 

rt*, .--. SOLOMON WISENBERG 

1191 

1201 

I211 

I221 

1231 

1241 

I251 

KARY ANNE WIRTH 

STEPHEN BINHAK 

Associate Independent Counsel 

Office of Independent Counsel 

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, Northwest 

Suite 490 North 

Washington, D.C. 20004 

__ 

Page 2 

Ill 

f 2 1 Whereupon, 

CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS 

i:iwas called as a witness and, after having been duly sworn by 

tslthe Foreperson of the Grand Jury, was examined and testified 

[ 61 aS follows: 

(71 WAMINATION 

IBI BY MR. WISENBERG: 

[91 Q 

1101 A 

State your name for the record, please. 

M name is Catherine Allday Davis. 

Ill1 Q Airight. And is that A-l-l-d-a-y? 

Il.21 A Yes 

I131 Q Im ’ going to ask you because our acou+cs are not 

r 14 1 state of the art to keep your voice up as much as possrble. 

1151 A Okay. 

1161 Q Also to answer questions that call for a yes or a 

r 17 j no. that 

(lsl”un-uh I’ tL 

ou answer “yes” or “no” rather than “uh-huh” or 

cause when, youre ’ Leading a cold. hard transcript, 

t19jyou cant ’ tzll whYeet;.er uh-huh IS yes or no. Ail nght? 

I201 

Q Okay. You are here today, Ms. Davis, pursuant to, 

t:::among other things, a letter immuni 

y ‘

agreement entered into 

[ 2 3 1 between you and your attorneys on he one hand and the Office 

[24]of Indepen~tyCeosvnsel on the other. Is that correct? 

!251 

.-. 

I61 A Thats ’ correct. 

171 0 Because youve ’ told us that youve ’ looked at scme 

f9jof the printouts of e-mails that you had thought you had 

f9jgotten rid of those. Is that correct? 

1101 A Thats ’ right. Yes. 

Q All right. Let me tell you a few things before we 

i::;get started Obviously, you know that as a grand 

j19jwrtness that 

ury 

y; here today. 

ursuant to your oath you have to tel the truth 

A &OF underst;d that? 

1 

0 lf%ere are an questions that we ask, like just 

I :!I happened there that are ina rculate that you dont ’

I 1s r understand. olease ask us to rephraie them. 

- xi-f ’ you need to talk to your attorney ou 

;;;;will be all&&d a reasonable opportunity to go out and ta *r k 

122110 your attome Do you understand that? 

1231 A $es. 

Q Okay. Do you understand also that your letter 

~::~immunity agreement you signed with us requires you to 

Page 8 

fljcooperate truthfully and fully and tell the truth at all 

izlbmes? 

i3i 

141 

151 

161 

171 

t81 

[91 

r,n, 

hand the 

A Yes. 

MR. WlSENBERG: 

Q Ms. Davis, can you tell us how old you 

A Twen 

Q And w x

-four years old. 

at is your marital status? 

A Im ’ married. 

that, l% 

are? 

.--> 

1111 Q And where were you born? 

I121 A Honolulu, Hawaii. 

1131 g And where,do you live now? 

I141 

t151 Q 

I currently live In Tokyo, Japan. 

And how Ion 

1161 A Eleven mont i! 

have you lived there? 

s. 

1171 Q Okay. And wh did you move there? 

1181 A 

Q 

I moved there ? or my husbands ’ work. 

1191 And do you intend to return to the United States 

12olsome dav to live? 

i&j -A Yes. 

I221 Q And do you know approximately when that is? 

t231 A Approximately, it should be this summer. 

t241 Q Oka And you intend to return to live where? 

(251 A Port r and, Oregon. 

Page 6 

Q And thats ’ because, amon 

\i;attorneJ advised you that you should do t 8 

other things, your 

at. Is that 

t3lwrrect. 

(41 A Yes. 

151 Q And the primary reason for that, correct me if 

[ 61 lm ’ wrong, in fact, the Only reason for.that, correct me 

17 1 if Im ’ wrong, is that some of the e-mails that Ms. Lewrnsky 

[ 9 1 sent to you and you sent to her in early February you erased 

[ 91 and/or attempted to erase from your machine, your husbands 

f ~o]computer.~ls th;;prrect? 

till 

Q And I understand that the reason that you did that 

( :: i is because these e-mails were - this computer was your 

j I 4 1 husbands ’ company computer that was supposed to be used for 

I ~s~offrcial business. Is that correct? 

il61 A Yes. 

1171 Q You did not erase or attempt t;rrazra/ese e-mails 

[islat the request, direction, directly or indirect 

[ 19 1 Lewinsky or anybody acting on her behalf. 7, s that correct? 

j 20 1 Do you need me to rephrase that? 

1111 

$ 

Yes. 

Oka 

:i:ie-mails at the dire cl! 

I understand that you did not erase these 

ion of Ms. Lewinsky or anyone acting on 

~24 1 her behalf. 

:L'51 A I did not. Right. 

I 131 : 1 backgrour$f 0 is 

t41 

151 AQ 

161 171 2 

181 

191 

I101 

iiii A 

1121 

t131 

1141 i 

Page 9 

Can 

? Colege. r 

ou tell the grand jury what your educational 

;t;z?an undergraduate degree. 

Lewis 8 Clark College. 

Okav. And where is that located? 

Portfand, Oregon. 

And your de ree was in what? 

I have a Ba 

PA,“:: ~~$&rently employerfin Japa??. 

elor of Science in sychol 

And-what do ou do? 

I teach Englts .L to Japanese business people 

Do you know Monica Lewinsky? 

ilSl A Yes: 

MR. WISENBERG: 

[ :7” jexcuse me - that Ste 

P 

hen 

Let me interrupt and say - 

Binhak of the office of Independent 

r19jCounsel has entered he grand jury room. He is present. He 

ilgjis extant. 

1201 BY MS. WIRTH: 

I211 Q Do you know Monica Lewinsky? 

1221 A Yes. 

I231 Q 

A 

And how do you know her? 

1241 I met her at college. 

I251 Q And what year in college did you meet her? 

OIC-Starr faie 1 lo Page 9 
841 

esA 

- - ~~ 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAX(2) 

Page 10 

I. 

- A 

r-- 

.- Q 

It was our senior year, fall of 1994. 

And she was also a psychology major? 

(2‘ A Yes. 

!4: Cl 

!“ A 

How is that you only met her in your senior year? 

She started In our junior year and I spent 

F 6 j rwo-thirds of our junior year abroad. 

(” Q 

:2: 

And you graduated together? 

A Yes. . 

!s: Q Now, can you tell the grand jury what your 

[ ::. relationship with Monica Lewi was like in college that 

i I : : last 

7 

ear? How dose you were. “kK ow much time you spent 

t ;Z : toge her, that sort of thing? 

A Well in the first semester we saw each other 

f r: j mostly at social fun&ions parties and I had classes with 

1 i5. her, but we didnt ’ become very dose until the beginning of 

1: 6 i our second semester. 

(1:: Q And can you describe for the grand jury the kind of 

; i; ; person that she was In coke e that ear? 

A Well as my &nd sk was serious at school, she 

:;r: ;was fun to be with free time and she and I talked to each 

:tl ;other a lot. 

Q 

j::jdid you go where did she o. 

Now what happened when you both graduated? Where 

A I stayed in Portland for a few months and she came 

!::ito Washington, I think around a month after or maybe less. 

Page 11 

!: i I cant ’ exactly remember. 

12. Q So this would be the summer of 1995. 

(3. A Yes. 

:4: Q And did you remain in touch with her? 

IC. 

_-. A Yes. . 

15: Q 

.-. A 

And how often wouki you speak to her? 

That summer, I think we spoke probably once every 

j::weekorfewweeks. .i. 

- Q And did you come to see her in D.C., in Washington? 

,.^ A Yes. I was coming out to the East Coast to meet my 

,:I jfamily and I spent about five days with her in Washington, 

::..:DC. 

,- > :__ Q Okay. And where was she working at the time? 

.. . 

.-. A 

. ‘ : 

,--. Q 

She was an intern at the Executive Offrce Building. 

Okay. And did you visit her at the Old Executive 

: :; : Office Building? 

.I- 

.- A Yes 

..: 

.-- AQ And did you meet any of her friends at that time? 

I 5 Not fnends. I met a couple of people that she 

i: : worked with. 7.. 

:--. Q Do you remember any names? 

.~-. 

.--. A No. 

^i‘ ‘ c--. Q She had an internship at the White House at that 

:r;.time? 

*,:- L-d A At that time? 

Page 12 

_. 

.-. Q Yes. 

. . . A No. At that time, her internship was just at the 

i <. Old Executive Office. 

[4: Q But it was an internship. 

.:. L-. A Yes. 

iF’ Q That was her titie. Do you know how she ot that 

i; ; job. by the way? Do you have any knowledge as to how Wat 

: 3 i came about? 

:?I‘ A She had something - an application and I think she 

: i 3 i had an interview. 

j::. 

f :::wav? 

Q Have you met members of Monicas ’ family, by the 

!:3: 

.:I: 

:.:. 

.--. 

A Yes. 

Q 

A 

Who have you met? 

I met her father. her stepmother, her aunt, her 

1. 8-e. r. uncle and her mother. And her grandmother. 

,.-. Q Okay. 

i f : : and her grandmother? 

And where did you meet her mother, her aunt 

.-- A I met them all in Washington. 

.-n. 

.-- 0 And where did you meet her father and stepmother? 

,-. 

_- A In L.A. 

._-. Q Now, after 

;s!.when you returned to Port Y and. Oregon? 

ou leh D.C.. did there come a time 

-2 ‘

.- A Yes. 

__ Q And you continued to live there until when? 

Page 10 to Page 15 

Page 13 

April of 97. ‘

And during that period 

Monica Lewrnsky? 

of time, did YOU remain in 

[41 A Yes. 

(51 Q How did ou remain in contact with her? 

I61 A Primarily $ ‘ y phone and I saw her a few times. 

I71 0 And can you tell the 

18 1 of time about the occasions on whr .cf 

rand jury during that period 

A 

you saw her angerson?. 

After that August of 95 ‘ she came to ortland in 

t:i;the fall. I think it was October. And then I didnt ’ see her 

t 111 again until a 

I 12 1 December o & 

ear later. She was in Portland briefly in 

96 and the next time I saw her was In Hawaii for 

iljjmy weddin 

(141 8 Was she in your wedding? 

1151 A Yes. 

I161 Q What was her role? 

I171 A 

Q 

She was my bridesmaid. 

Now through your communications with Monica during 

[ :ii that period of time did ou learn that she eventually got a 

tzolpennanen~job ;;k W&te House? 

(211 

I221 Q And do ou know what that job was? 

1231 A I rernem L the Office of Legislative Affairs, but I 

(24 lcant ’ remember if that was the permanent or the intern. 

t z 5 1 Thats ’ what I remember from the White House. 

Page 14 

Q And during this period of time, how frequently were 

i:;you speaking to her on the telephone when she had her 

~3lpermanent job at the White House? 

[41 A I think around once a week, if I can ust ‘ sort 

rs,of - you know, from what I think of how our friends Ii 

I 6 1 that we soeak about once a week. 

up IS, 

Mavbe occasionallv more 

i 7 i than that: but on average Id ’ say once 6 week. - 

0 And did she talk to ou about her job at that time, 

Iii the permanent ob ‘ in Legislative A 

(101 A \es. 

fv airs? 

1111 Q Did she tell you anything about who her friends in 

[ 121 Washington were? 

1131 A Yes. 

I141 Q 

A 

Any names that you recall? 

I cant ’ remember when I first heard about Ashley, 

I:zibut, you know, I heard about Ashley Raines during that time, 

~1711 think. 

IlEl Q And, by the wa 

I 19 1 Monicas ’ other friends outside b 

are you familiar with any of 

ashmgton? 

1201 

l211 

A Yes. 

0 Have YOU met anv of them? 

I221 

[231 

I241 

A Yes. - 

0 

A 

Who have you met? 

Well, I know all her friends from college and I 

tzslknow a woman named Natalie from L.A. I cant ’ remember her 

Page 15 

t 1 Ilast name. 

I21 Q 

A 

Have you ever met Neysa Erbland? 

I31 No. I nevermet her. 

141 Q Do YOU know about her? 

i5i 

ICI 

A Oh,yes. Yes. 

0 Who isshe? 

L-1 

171 A Shes ’ a friend of hers from high school who shes ’

[B jseen since high school. 

Q Did Monica ever discuss the President with you 

[:iiduring theime$hat she was working at the White House? 

1111 

[I21 Q And can ou tell the grand .ury basicall from what 

t 133~~ remember from the &gin,$ the kinds of thinqs &at 

t 14 j onrca would discuss wrth you a out the Presiden 

A From the beginning, I remember her just -when she 

I:z;told me that she had first seen him and then met him. I 

[ 17 Icant ’ remember exact dates, but that sort of progression. 

0 Okay. And did there come a time when she began to 

I :ildiscuss the nature of her relationship with the President 

r?nlwith vou? .--A , 

L211 A Yes. 

I221 Q Okat And, a ain. startin from the be inning, 

tz3lwhat do ou recall t at she tod you abou the nature o her 

x, 

9 9 7 

.-., I 74 I relations IO with the President? 

[251 A Well. it just began with -just sort of this - 

OIC-Starr 
842 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAKX .- 

Page 16 

j 1 lyou know, shed ’ seen him and then shed ’ met him. She met him 

[Z 1 in the White House and then also at a couple of functions 

t 31 that I think she had been to. That was, you know, the 

(4lbeginning. 

IS1 Q Oka . 

[ 6 1 about the rtur;z;. c, ‘

And di her discussions w$h you continue 

er relabonshrp with the Prestdent? 

[71 

ia Q And what did she eventual1 

A 

tell you? 

That she was had and was onnrng a sort of a 

t ~~icloser. I guess, relationship. 

f 

Q 

I :: 1 the President? 

Okay. And did she tell you she was meeting with 

1131 A Yes. 

Cl41 Q Okay. And what did she tell you about that? 

[15! A That she had met with him alone. 

I161 Q Did she tell you where that took place? 

I171 A Yes. 

[181 Q Where? 

I191 A At a small office connected to the Oval Office. 

Q And when she told you this, was she a permanent 

[:ilemptoyeeg thFeyite House at that time? 

I221 

[231 0 

rzrlplace? 

And did she tell you when these meetings took 

I251 A When - like - 

Page 19 

t 1 j relationship with the President besides the fact that they 

121woke? 

[31 A Yes. 

[41 Q What did she tell 

(51 A 

161 Q 

171 A 

i 8 j together. 

191 Q And do you remember when she told you this? 

[lOI A 

1111 

i12i 

Q 

Late 95, ‘ early 96 ‘

And was this in a telephone conversation? 

A Yes. 

0 Can you tell the grand jury to the best of your 

i::imemory what she said durin that tele hone conversation? 

A This was the ? irst time t ii at she had told me tha: 

I :6; ‘ it had become more personal and she asked me not to tell 

tl7janyone. induding,my mother, and I said yes. But then she 

t 18 jsald not even Chns. whos ’ now my husband, and I said then 

t lsjshe shouldnt ’ tell me. And she said d was all right to tell 

tzojhim. Then she told me that she had one to thus side office 

121 land had like kissed him and some ot I! er things. 

I221 Q 

r23lwav? 

Okay. And have you ever told your mother, by the 

i71; - A NO 

1-71 

I251 Q ‘ .N&v, did there come a time when she discussed with 

Page 17 

111 Q Like time of day. 

I21 A I remember them to be in the evenin 

Q 

at night. 

1Z1were arranoed or set uo? 

Did she tell you anything about how 8, hese meetings 

. -, 

I51 

[61 

I71 

[8!M 

[9! 

[lOI 

1111 

there 

A 

was 

i 

Yes. ’ 

What did she tell you? 

That there was the help - I remember her telling 

the help of Be 

% 

Cume. 

And who was etty Currii. to your knowledge? 

The Presidents ’ secretary. 

And had you ever met Betty Currie? 

1121 A No. 

1131 Q 

[ 14 1 take 

Did Monica tell you how often these meetings would 

place or do 

t 151 discussions with K 

ou have a sense of that from your 

er? 

A Yes. I think she told me probably after almost 

1::; every one, but I cant ’ exactly remember how many, you know, 

( IB 1 between weeks or - 

1191 Q Did their frequency change over time? 

[201 A Yes. 

Q What can you tell us about that based on your 

i:::conversations with Monica? 

[231 A It seemed to me that they got fewer and far between 

[24 jafter she left the White House. 

[251 Q For approximately what period of time did your 

Page 18 

t 1 j discussions with Monica continue about this subject? From 

I . 2 . lwhen to when? 

Iilchangin 

A Well, when she to@ me about the sort of 

- the more 

3 r 

rsonal relationship, I remember it 

t 5) to be ed er the end o 1995 or very early 96. ‘ And it 

I 6]~1ntinued until late 97. ‘

Q Now, did she tell you in relation to the meetings 

[ii that she haAd wi;\\e President whether they talked? 

(91 

Q 

I:Fl]talked about? 

And what kinds of things did she tell you that they 

/::iabout 

A Im ’ sure she didnt ’ tell me everything they talked 

*I f 

ou know ste by step but I was led to belleve by 

t 14 1 her tha there was a ot of sortof ’ personal discussion about 

t 151 her lii and his life. I remember on one occasion her 

tisjtelling me that they talked about his mother after she had 

jl7jdiec 

I:;;tolc 

I201 

[?I 

,?I 

3. 

0 Any other discussions that come to mind that she 

I you about? 

A 

: j his mania 

I remember her telling me that they talked about 

e. 

.-?I 8 Okay. And what do ou recall about that? 

1231 A That he told her that r, e was committed to it over 

124 jtime. 

[251 Q Okay. Did she tell you anything else about her 

OIC-Starr 

Page 20 

tljyou the fact that the nature of her physical relationship 

r 2 jwrth the President changed? 

I31 A Yes. - 

[41 Q 

A 

What did she tell you? 

She would tell me about the sort of specific - I 

[z;dont know how specific. but to me specific sexual things 

Q 

I :i idiscussions with you. 

Who qave who oral sex, according to Monicas ’

[I91 A 

Q 

According to her, she gave him oral sex. 

Okay. And do you recall what specific places she 

i:iltold you that the President touched her? 

L.221 A On her breasts and on her va ina. 

~231 Q Did she 3 tell you anything else 

1241 A About? 

(251 Q About the nature of her physical relationship. 

Page 21 

III A You mean more details? 

!:lmind. 

Q Anything more specific than that that comes to 

A Yes. 

I101 Q Okay. All right. Now, when she was talking to you 

f I I labout these thinqs. did YOU believe her? 

A Yes. . 

123) 

l241 

I251 

Had you ever known her to lie to you? 

A No. 

Q one else? 

A 

Had you ever known her to lie to an 

To lie to anyone else? Anyone else J I mean, not 

Page 16 to Page 21 
843 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3/17/98 

.~.~ _~ .~. .- 

XUAXII 

Page 22 

i 1 Ifirsthand. 

Q And can you tell the grand ju 

j:;discussing these things was there anything 

[ 4 1 talked. including any emotional reaction that she seeme 

~51 be having when she was talking to you that led you to believe 

[ 61 that she was tei,ltng the truth? 

IL A Q msoT ‘Well, w en she was talking to you about her 

f s~relationship. did she seem at times happy, upset, concerned? 

f~o]What kinds of things did you hear in her voice that led you 

t 11 lto believe that this was the truth? If anything. 

A I mean 

i:$iSometimes upset and 

es. there was a range of emotions. 

Q Now, durin the bme that you were talking to 

f!ustrated., ‘ but also happy. 

i::iMonica about her relations up wtth the President, would you 

t 16 j also discuss other things? 

[l-J1 

I181 

1191 

A Yes. 

Q What kinds of other thin s? 

A Many other things. My I 9 e. other aspects of her 

f20llife. 

l2ll Q 

A 

What was going on in your life at that time? 

I was - I had been seeing 

i::jsumrner of 95 ‘ and the following 

124 !I bought a house. It was many t I? 

ear we go enga ed and 

T husbcd from the 

tngs on my end. ark 

f 2 5 1 Some school. 

Page 23 

Q And what about on Monicas ’ end? Did she talk about 

iiiother things as well? 

A 

f i i specific sort of 

Yes. We talked about different things with work, 

- 

t 51 the Pentagon an J 

ou know, especial1 after she went to 

started traveling. fhings like that. Then 

16 1 also maybe other people she had seen, other trips shed ’

[-i;taken. 

Q 

IiiWhite House? 

Now, did Monica discuss with you her work at the 

llnl A At the White House? .--> 

111‘ Q Yes 

A Mm-hmm. 

Q Did she tell you whether she was happy working 

rlrlthere? 

I :zi happy. 

A I dont ’ think she was - I don1 think she was very 

I think it started better than it certainly finished. 

cl?; Q Can you tell the grand jury anything that she told 

rls;you aboutzhy she was unhapp towards the end. 

I dont ’ think she r elt kke . she was ever welcomed 

I:ijby anybody working there or got along very well with anyone 

[ 2 I j working there. 

Q Now, did there come a time when you teamed from 

I::; her that shz lefty:; White House? 

I241 

1251 Q And did she tell you anything about why she left? 

Page 24 Page 27 

i A I remember her telling me about 

[: jspecifically with like Evelyn Lieberman, her not 

t 3 land her being upset about that. But there was also 

j 4 idifferent stones that I - I - I got from Monica that there 

t 5 jwere two different stones being told to Monica and so she 

t 6 !was confused at the time that she left also. 

17: Q What did she tell 

A I cant ’ remember E 

ou about Evelyn Lieberman? 

vetyn Liebermans ’ position, but 

I!+ishe told me that she didnt ’ think Evelyn Liebennan liked her 

~lolat all and wanted her to leave the Whde House. 

Q Did she ever tell you anything that she had heard 

I: i leither from Evelyn Lieberman or from anyone else about what 

[ 1; i Evelyn thought of her? 

i14! A Oh, I do remember that there were - I cant ’

[ I 5: remember if she learned this after she left or before, but 

[ 16 1 there was this thing about somebody saying, I dont ’ know if 

(17 1 it was from - who It was from, somebod 

[ 1 s 1 sort of considered to be too close to the b 

saying that she was 

restdent and I 

i 19 :guess the work stalkin 

Q Okay. %I 

was used loosely. 

120: as there anything about Monicas ’ attire or 

r 2 I ; behavtor that concerned Evelyn, according to Monicas ’

~27 discussions ‘ with you? 

!23: A Yes. According to Monica, I do remember some 

[:J comment about Evelyn Lieberman complainin about the way she 

(zsdressed ’ at some pomt. but I cant ’ remember w 9, at tt was. 

Q 

;:;occur? 1 

Okay. And when you say “eventually” when did that 

t believe we started talking about it on e-mail 

I : i when I mo:ed to Japan. 

Q And did she have nicknames for the President that 

I zi she used in talkkng to you? 

[71 

I81 

I91 

[lOI 

,111 

A Yes. 

0 

A 

What were they? 

I remember Handsome, Big Cree and The Creep. 

Q And do 

J 

ou know why she used t k ose nkcknamas? 

A Well. I on1 think she wanted to use his name and 

iii i I guess it sort of came 

%I? 

one out of affection, the other 

j 13 j not out of affection, but 

Q Okay. 

of frustration probably. 

i :: 1 President a Valentine? 

Did Monica ever tell you that she sent the 

,__, ~~ ~~ 

I161 A Yes. 

I171 0 

A 

What did she tell you about that? 

She told me that she had written it and sent it in. 

i :“9 1 I think it was to the pes&lu;t assume that she told me, 

jzojand that shy? ho 

1211 iF at she hoped that he saw it? 

A Yes. 

Q And do you remember who the Valentine was addresse 

A I think It was to Handsome. 

-- 

Page 22 to Page 27 

Page 25 

I7 1 0 Did Monica ever tell you that Evel 

;;;seen her, being-M l-r 

n Lieberma- had 

mica. an here in the White ouse and 

I 7 1 exoressed some L-1. r 

? concern a r out that? 

I41 A Yes. 

ISI Q What did she tell you? 

[61 A 

[~lshe wasntQsup ’

That S:I zd been caught, I guess, in places mat 

181 

!91 A 

Tu know what those places were? 

Do know where they were? 

!lOl Q Did Monica tell 

d 

ou? 

(111 A Im ’ sure she to1 me, but I dont ’ remember. 

1121 Q 

I131 A 

And caught bcvep directly? 

I dont ’ renvsm r rf was dtrectly Evelyn. 

1141 Q But Evelyn learned about it. at least - 

[ISI A Yes. Yes. 

I161 Q At taast according to Monica. 

I171 A Mm-hmm. 

Q All ht. Now did Monica tell you that she was 

i:tlasked to leave the %ite Ho&e? .--, 

1201 A Yes 

I211 Q 

A 

Okay. Did she tell you who asked her to leave7 

I221 I dont ’ remember. 

[231 Q You said a moment ago that there were two stories 

[ 24 1 that Monica heard 

I251 A Right 

Page 26 

Q Can you tell the grand jury what those were? 

A If I remember corn&Iv. the other one was related 

1 s 1 story that seemed at the time to both of us more plausible. 

Q Which is the story about the dressing and being 

r izl caught in places where she shoukint ’ be? 

!I11 A 

! 12 1 too close. 

Yes. And people there worrying about her becoming 

,131 Q Too close to - L--1 

:141 A To the President. 

!I51 Q Okay. All right. Now, during the time that you 

! ~sldiswssed Monicas ’ relationship with the President with her, 

[I 7 twera there conversations between the two of you on the phone 

11 s I about that? 

[191 A 

Cl 

Im ’ sorry, about what? 

When 

/:;;with the President, d d 

ou discussed with Monica her relationship 

Izzlher? 

you talk about that on the phone with 

i231 A 

j241 

1251 

YeS. 

Okay. And did you also discuss that in e-mails? 

Eventually. 

OlCStarf 
844 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAXiSl 

Page 28 

[Ii 0 

[2lwas in it? 

Do you remember remember anything anything about the Valentine, Valentine, what 

A Well she read it to me and I know it was like some 

I:iouote I:iouote but I cant ’ remember. remember. Ive ’ read it actually actually though 

i 5 1 in thepress ’ since then. She read it to me over the phone 

I 6 I last vear. but Ive ’ also read it in like Newsweek Newsweek or 

i 7 j something since then. 

181 Q But at the time you remember that there was some 

r9iquote? .~ 

I101 A Yes. 

Cl Oka 

I :: j whether she had to r d the 6. 

Do ou know whether - did she ever tell you 

restdent before she sent in that ad 

f 13 j that she was going to do it? 

A I remember that she said that she had - I cant ’

i::lexactly remember if she had s oken to him and told him, but I 

j 16 1 remember she had said that s f: e had tried to give him that 

f 17 1 message. 

Q All ri ht. Now, dii there coma a time when you 

i:tlheard somethin w iii 

A ?es.. 

the Presidents ’ voice on it? 

1201 

[211 Q 

A 

Can you tell the mnd jury how that came about? 

It was on two d if? erent occasions that she played 

[::!for me the tape from her answering machine. 

I241 Q Were you in person or on the telephone? 

1251 A On the telephone. 

.~ 

Page 31 

Ill Q Do you remember what the book was? 

I21 A Leaves of Grass. 

131 Q 

t 4 1 Monica? 

And youre ’ learning this through conversations wtth 

A Yes. And then I distinctly remember all the things 

izifrorn the Marthas ’ Vineyard shop. 

Q And what kinds of things do you remember hearing 

; i; about from the Marthas ’ Vineyard shop? 

Two T-shirts, a coffee mug or two coffee mugs and 

ou remember anything about the dress as she 

1201 

l-211 

I221 

1231 

I241 

1251 

Q Do you know what a schmat is? 

A Ido. 

Q Can ou enlighten us? 

BY MS. WORTH: 

Q Can you tell us? 

A Its ’ sort of a - not sloppy. but a casual kind of 

Page 29 

0 Andcar . 

A 

I you tell the grand jury what you heard? 

Well she had told me - she told me rt was his 

I: Ivoice so when I lisiened I was listening sort of for his 

I 4 Ivoiceand ’ it sounded to me at the tine enouah like his voice. 

0 And can you tell the grand ju?y anything you 

i z 1 remember about the two messaoes tn tears of their content? 

[‘I A Yes. I remet 

--Ai:-- IL_ IL-. 

_--- _ _ _ - _ - _- ..___ 

nbe;&%was sort of like “Aw. shucks. 

[s 1 I wanted to talk to you,” someurlrl me. tnat. 

9, 

I-2 I -81” I 

I glthink the other one was more like oure ’ not there” or 

t lol”Aw, shucks, youre ’ not there” and the other one was like 

t 111 “Oh, I wanted to talk to you.” Soma sort of combination of 

tlzlthat. 

Q Can you tell the grand jury anythin 

i::l]volume or tone of the voice that you heard on the 4 

about the 

rlslplayed? 

ape she 

I161 A It sounded to me like a person who was keeping 

[ 17 1 their voice down, not whis but down. 

Q Now did s 

ring, 

! :“, 1 taoe or those taoes? 

R e ever tell you what she did with that 

;zo; ’A Idon ’ t ’ remember. 

Q Do you know whether she ever played them for 

I%ianybody else to ou knowledge? Did she tell you? 

f231 A ’ I c&n*1 remember. 

1241 Q Did she ever tell you during the course of your 

rzsldiscussions with her whether she had discussed her 

Page 32 

[ 11 flowing dress. 

[21 MR. WtSENBERG: 

BY MS. WtRTH: 

Thank you. 

I31 

Q Now with respect to the hat pin, did she wear 

i:ithat. to your knowledge? 

161 A 

Q 

To my knowledge, she did. 

171 

isi 

She told vou she did? 

A Yei . 

0 All right. Do you know whether Monica gave the 

j :i;President ry pctznts, according to Monica? 

1111 

[121 Q 

[131 A 

What did she tell you? 

I remember the ties. I was reminded -well, no. 

[ 14 1 I dont ’ remember naturally but I read in 

I 1 s 1 this book called The Notebook, but adua “x y e-malk I remembered about 

[ 16 j esterday that I think she also gave him the book called 

[ 171 L eek Love by Catherine Dunn. 

II81 0 How do you spell that? 

I191 A What? 

1201 Q What kind of love? 

121; A Geek. 

t221 Q Geek? 

1231 A G-e-e-k. 

i24i 

I251 2 l?%e out a year or two ago. Thats ’ what I 

Page 30 

t I I relationshi 

121 1 

wit!;’ President with anybody else? 

131 Q Who? 

A In some form I think she had told her mother about 

i :i the relationship, Ashley Raines, Natalie, eventually Linda 

[ 6 1 Tripp, and I didnt ’ remember her telkng me that she had told 

r71Neysa. 

I81 Q You dont? ’

[91. . A I hadnt ’ remembered that she told me that shed ’

[lo]told Neysa. 

Ill1 Q Now, do you know whether an 

[ 12 1 had knowled e of the physical relationship be KY 

or all of those people 

een Monica and 

.--, rl31the Presiden R 

A I guess I dont ’ actually know s 

i :: i assumed they did. but I dont ’ know specifical py. ” 

cifically. I 

1161 Q 

[171YOU? 

And did you assume that based on what she had told 

1181 A I iust assumed it because she told me that. that 

ilsjshe told them. - 

Q Now, did you learn at any time that Monica received 

i:y 1 any presegs fr;;rthe President? 

I221 

[231 0 What did you learn that she received? 

[241 A Well, over time, I had heard about - that I 

i2 s 1 remember, Id ’ heard about the hat pin, the book. 

OIC-Starr 

Page 33 

t 11 remember. And then I also remembered yesterday about some 

rzlsort of figurine or something that she had given him. 

(31 Q Do you remember what it was of? 

141 A 

Q 

I remember a frog, but Im ’ not sure. 

Now, did you ever see any photographs of the 

Iz; President; Mo;;~s ‘ possession? 

[71 

[Bl Q 

A 

What did you see? 

t :iiFirst Lady. 

I remember one of her wdh the President and the 

I remember the sort of official shot of him. 

I 1 I I I know that there were others, but I dont ’ remember them 

~12jspecificauy. 

1131 Q And where were you when you saw those? 

I: !i the 

A 

others 

One she showed me in Oregon in the fall of 95 ‘ and 

I saw in either Oregon or Hawaii in 96. ‘

Q Now, based on your conversations with Monica did 

i :76jMonica ever tell you that she sent messages to the President?’ 

IIS1 

1191 

A Yes. 

Q After she letI the White House? 

izoi A Yes. 

1211 0 And how did she do that, based on what she told 

r221you? 

I231 A I remember it was with the help of Bett Currie. 

[241 Q And did she ever tell you how she wou 7 d do that? 

trs]Monica? 

Page 28 to Page 33 
845 

8sA Catherine Allday Davis, 3iI7199 

~-__.__ ___-. -- - ~-.~--- 

XMAX(C) 

Page 34 

(11 

!21 

I31 

$ Sgeesyfically? Like - 

Im ’ sure she did, but I cant ’ exactly remember. 

(41 Q Okay. And did you have any knowledge, based on 

[slyour conversations with Monica, as to what was in those 

16 1 messages? 

171 A Yes. In fact, she read some of them to me and 

[~lshed ’ tell me about the content, but I can just sort of 

(9 1 remember the gist of some of them. 

(101 Q And what do you remember? 

Ill1 A Some of them were, I think - I dont ’ know, 

112 Iaffectionate, but, you know,. sort of wanting to see him and 

113)then others were maybe a lIttIe upset or sort of - 

Cl Do ou know whether Monica ever sent any audiotapes 

I::lto the President WI 7 h messages on them? 

A Its ’ one of those thin 

/:;;now I cant ’ exactly remember if its ’

s that sounds familiar, but 

%e cause Ive ’ read it now 

( 1 e 1 everywhere or - 

1191 Q Okay. Now, tell the grand jury what you.kno+ ’ based 

[ 20 1 on your conversations with Monica about what her relabonshlp 

(~1 lwas like with Betty Cur%. 

[221 A Well, I think she-l think she trusted her and 

[23]she liked her. I think she saw her as someone that could 

~24 1 help her and I was led to believe that they talked about 

r251things but not too specifically. 

Page 35 

Ill Q 

Izlmean? 

When you say “talked about things,” what do you 

\:idiscussed 

A I dont ’ remember her tellin me that she had 

in detail what was the relations 7i up, as she had to 

[s]rne, the relationship between her and the President. 

0 You said you were unaware based on 

\ fl conversations with Monica what Betty Curries ’ level o Y 

our 

[e 1 knowledge was about their relationship? 

191 A Thats ’ ri ht. 

(10: 0 You tol 8 us a little earlier that there came a time 

[ 11 Iwhen Monica left the White House and she went to work 

.~~. I 12 1 somewhere else. Is that right? 

r13: 

[I41 $ yw”re did she go to work? 

Cl51 A The Pentagon. 

1161 Q And dqin that period of time - do you remember 

[ 17 1 when she kft the White 8 ouse. first off? 

[18! I only 

( 19 1 of 96 ‘ - yes, 96. ‘

remember naturally like sort of spring-ish 

12Oi Q 

i2ll 

Thats ’ your personal recollection? 

A Yes. 

Q Okay. And when Monica went to work at the 

I::; Pentagon do you know based on 

~24 Iwhether she continued to see the 

our conversations with Monica 

& resident? 

1251 A I do know. 

Page 36 

Lll 

I21 2 

What do you know? 

She did. 

Did she also communicate with him on the telephone, -d--e i3i Q 

[ 4 1 to your knqwleage < 

IS1 A Yes. 

Q And what do you know about those telephone calls? 

i76iFirst off approximately when in the day would they take 

[alplace. a&zdin 

? 

to what Monica told you? 

191 

.~ 1 remember them belna mostly in the evening, at - _ 

rlolnight. 

Ill1 Q And when you say “at night.” before or after 

[lzjmidnight? 

I131 A I remember most of them being after midnight. 

1141 Q And did Monica ever tell you how Ion they lasted? 

I151 A How long the conversations - from w ?I at I re fmember. 

i I ni I dont ’ think that thev were that lona. 

17, --- ‘ ---- - ----a ‘ And&d Monica telltou what was discussed during 

.~~. ; ; 8; those telephone conversations? - 

I191 A Somewhat. yes. 

1201 Q And what did she tell you? 

I211 A Sometimes I remember it just being sort of talking 

~22 lcasually about someones ’ daq and then also about her work. 

I231 Q Anything else. 

124; A Yes. 

[251 Q What else? 

Page 34 to Page 39 

Page 37 

;:: A 

r-: I-. Q 

More personal things. 

Can you elaborate on that7 

13: A It was described to me as phone sex. 

Q Oka 

1: i times that occurred? 

. And did she tell you approximately how many 

A Im ’ sure she told me after it occurred almost every 

ititime. I cant ’ exactly remember. 

13: Q 

A 

Can you give a general approximation? 

r:zirnore than ten. 

Id ’ say around five. maybe a little more, but no 

t11; Q And what period of time was that durin ? 

[Zimaybe. 

A I dont ’ exactly remember. In 96, ‘ part o 31 97 

Q 

i::;Pentagon? 

Okay. And this is while shes ’ working at the 

I16! A Yes. 

Q And 

~:~jvisits as will duririz i 

ou also told us that there were also personal 

hat period of time? 

[191 

[20i Q And how were those arianoed? 

A Accordin to her, according’ to Monica, they were 

i%iarranged with the help o B Betty Currie. 

I::;during 

0 Okay. And when did they take place in terms of 

the day, if you know? 

i2Sl A W&l, I think some of them -the ones that 

Page 38 

( 1: occurred during the day were on the weekend and then there 

IzJwere some at night. 

Q 

I? i with Monica? 

And this is all according to your conversations 

.-. 

(5: A Yes. 

161 Q All right. And did she discuss with you, Monica, 

[ 7 jwhat occurred at those visits? 

[Si A Someof it. Yes. 

Q And did she tell you whether she talked to the 

( : i j President prinf,:p‘ ”” visits? 

II?! 

[lr: Q And did she tell you anything else about what 

;;;;happened durin those visits? 

[lj 

A #es. 

Q What else did she tell you? 

16‘ ’ A She continued to tell me about some of the sexual 

117 jencounters that they had. 

[la: . Q Okay. And did those mr every time or just some 

[lgjbmes orA I dont ’ remember them occurring every time. I 

I:” 1 remember that there were occasions that she -there were 

[ 2; i occasions that she actually went to the White House, got in, 

[23lbu1 didnt ’ see him. There were times where she went. saw 

~24 i him, and they just talked. 

(251 0 All right. Now, did there come a time when Monica 

Page 39 

[ 11 be 

R 

an to discuss with you plans to leave Washington and move 

f:lto .~. ew York? 

13? A Yes. 

Q And did she tell you anything about her plans to 

i : i get a job in New York? 

16; A Yes. 

Q 

Ieithat ’ effort? 

Did she tell you if anyone was assisting her in 

!3! A Yes. 

I151 Q What did she tell you? 

[l:l A Well, she told me about a lot of sort of 

[ 12 Idifferent - different names would come u I cant ’ remember 

113 1 under sort of which context. I was led to klieve that she 

[: 4 1 was, you know 

Q 

etting help sort of through the White House. 

did ‘ she tell you whether anyone specifically at the 

I i z i White House was helping her? 

A Well I think - I mentioned that - I remember 

f :i ! names like Bruce Lindsey, but I cant ’ remember the context. 

( 14 f Betty, I think. but I also was led to believe - not 

122 ;specificall 

t 2 : : me. Wha r 

I cant ’ remember exactly what Monica said to 

i was sort of understanding is that she was getting 

(22~ help from the President. 

!23i Q Did Monica ever tell you that she discussed with 

[ 2 4 : the President what her hopes, wishes were for a job in 

! 2 s : New York? 

OIC-Starr 
846 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAL- 

-~ _~---~ - .- -__ --- .~ 

Page 40 

Ii! A Yes. 

12! Q What did she tell 

eJ 

ou about that? 

(31 A I think she want to be out of the sort of 

, 4 1 ovemment work and was hoping to be in the private - some 

i ;;$ind of pnvate company. 

Q Now, did she tellJou what places or persons she 

r 7 1 had intervy 722, in New York. 

131 

I91 Q What did she tell you? 

1101 A Job interviews? 

illi Q Yes. 

,111 A Well. there was one with the United Nations 

L--1 

1131 

(141 

Q Who did she interview with for that? 

A I know she spoke to Bill Richardson. I dont ’ know 

i 15 i if that was the actual interview. 

Q And did Monica tell you how that interview was 

j:76jarranged. whether she had an 

4 

asststance in getting the 

c 1 g 1 intervrew with Bill Richardson. 

A Yes, she dtd. It was somebody in the White House. 

If,,1 ‘‘ dont ’ remember it being specifically the President in this 

c 2 11 instance 

1211 0 

[231from the U.N.? 

And did Monica tell you whether she got a job offer 

[241 A Yes. 

12i: Q Did she tell you how she felt about the job at the 

Page 43 

111 like maybe food or delivery within there. Something like 

(2 Ithat. 

I: 1 than what 

Q Did she ever tell you anything more about him cz:er 

X 

ouve ’ just said? 

I51 I remember that she talked with him about thrncs 

I61 Q When you sa “about thin 

A WeU, I seem o remember ?-I,- 

ii) some point and her talkin 

r 

s ” what kinds of thin;57 

191 remember her telling me a 

rm - her being upse: at 

to him about - I dont ’ - I don t 

at she told him anything 

r 10 ~specifically about her relationship wrth the President. I 

r 111 dont ’ remember that. 

Q 

i ::i point she talked to 

But {ou have a general recollection that at sone 

i 14 j something? 

im because she was upset about 

iI51 A I seem to remember that, yes. That he saw her 

r 161 upset or something like that, but I cant ’ remember what she 

[17]told him. 

[181 BY MR WISENBERG: 

Q Do you recall dii she ever tell you, Ms. Lewinsiry. 

%lthat she would sometimes &I this Nel in order to find out 

i;;iif the President was in? 

, 

[221 A Hmm. I dont ’ remember that. 

Q Do you remember and this is a little more 

I:: 1 specific do you remember her teiling you that she called Nel 

r 2 s j or anybody else when Betty Currie wouM tell Monica the 

Page 41 

[l,U.N.? 

(21 A Yes. She wasnt ’ - she didnt ’ want to take it. 

I31 Q 

A 

Did she tell you wh ? 

!41 Yes. I think if was r oo sort of similar to what 

! j j shed ’ been doing at the Department of Defense. She didnt ’

: L. 1 want to travel as much for work. And I dont ’ think she 

i; iwanted to be in sort of a ovemment Oriented - 

i31 THE FOREPEWSON: Excuse me Ms. Wnth. 

19; MS. WIRTH: Is it time for a break? 

(131 THE FOREPERSON: Its ’ time for a break. 

ill: MS. WIRTH: Sure. Well ’ take a break. 

[I.! MR. WISENBERG: 

[:31 MS. WIRTH: 

1141 THE FOREPER%J!o%tj~~~~inutes. ’

1151 MR. WISENBERG: All right. May the witness be 

i 16 j excused? 

111 ’

THE FOREPERSON: Yes, she may. _.- ._ 

1131 

1191 

MS. WIRTH: You can step outside.- 

MR. WISENBERG: We will come and get you when 

i 2 0 j time to start up .a 

I211 

1721 

N-f d?kSS: Okay. 

ltness excused. Wfiness recalled.1 

I231 R c;lt,S,;BERG: _ Let the record reflect that the 

i 2 4 J witness has rer the grand juw room. 

1251 Madam Forepemon, do we have a quorum? 

CS 

Page 42 

(11 THE FOREPERSON: Yes, sir. We do. 

MR. WISENBERG: 

\ziin the grand u ‘

Are there any unauthorized persons 

141 T~Er@~~~ERSON: No there are not. 

151 Ms. Davis ou are still under oath. 

161 BY MS. WI& 

['I 0 ,Before we o any further, there are a few questions 

;$a~ha~g~;~rors wouk?like you to answer., Did you 

onrca at any tme any kind of tnnkets or gifts 

( 1 o 1 from fhe White House? 

[l?l_ A I remember getting some little boxes of M&MS and 

r 12 1 kttie Lifesavers. but I cant ’ remember if they were White 

i ii j House or Penta on. 

1141 Q 8kay. And she mailed those to you? 

I151 A Yes. 

Q Okay. In your discussions with Monica, did she 

I :t;ever mention to you any person at the White House named Nel 

[ 1s 1 or Nelvis? 

1191 A I think so. Yes. 

[ZOI Q 

A 

Do you remember anything about that person? 

If I remember correct1 , he was like - I dont ’

iiiiwant to sat;,he was a staff member, gut. I mean, he sort of 

123 idelivered t rngs or served somethrng. He was described to 

[24 jme. I think, as sort of - he was Filiprno. if I remember 

[25lcorrectly. and I think thats ’ the same person and he was - 

OIC-Starr 

Page 44 

j 11 Presidents ’ not in? Did Monica ever fell 

j 2 1 called Nel or someone r 

ou that she then 

;:;really bernjistra3t witI%% check Up O see If Betty was 

only thing I can answer with that is that I 

~5, know that sometimes she doubted Betty, but I dont ’ remember 

~6jspecifically the checking. 

Q You came and interviewed with your lawyers, 

Ii!Ms. Wirth and myself and FBI agent yesterday, is that 

L 9 1 correct? 

LlOl A Yes. 

Q I know there were some questions about - I thnk 

: ::i we asked you a question in 

r 131 have to make an excuse for Ill 

eneral about did anybody ever 

onrca. that she was in an area 

[ 14 1 around the Oval Office or the stud 

rlsjsomebody and the question was d 

and she was maybe seen by 

Id anybody have to say she was 

j 161somebody who she wasnt ’ or make some kind of an excuse for 

r 17 1 her. I dont ’ know if you recall that we asked a question 

rlsllike .~~. that. 

(191 

[201 

1311 

A Yes. 

Q And what is your answer to that question? 

A I recall a couole of times her tellina me that 

;;; ithere were sort of like dosecalls. ’ I remember at-some 

(231 oint maybe somebody trying to sort of, yes, make an exwse 

124 I P or her being where she was. 

[251 Q My next question to you is do you recall Nel in any 

Page 45 

I; ;r:iebein 

hoc? 

connected with any of that stuff she told you about 

y maybe having close calls or someone having to make 

I 3 J an excuse? 

141 A No, I dont ’ recall that. 

Q Do you recall her telling you that Nel woutd tell 

I zi her - maybe tell her when the coast was clear in terms of 

(7 Ivisiting the President? 

A To be honest that sounds familiar, but I cant ’

I “, 1 remember specifics of that. but it does - I mean. I know 

[ I o j that there was - I remember thinking it was stran e that she 

111 ,was talkin 

[ 12 j to him a lo 9 , but I cant ’ remember the specifics of like if 

to him and it seemed like she was so I! of talking 

[ 131 he helped or if he didnt. ’

[14I MR. WISENBERG: Thats ’ all I have. 

1151 BY MS. WIRTH: 

[I61 Q You mentioned a moment ago that Nel saw he: upset 

I171 A Mm-hmm. 

1181 Q Dii he see her upset in the White House? 

I191 A I think so. 

[201 0 Do you remember what she was upset about when N 

[21)saw her upset? 

1221 A I remember that it was related to after - 

ijiisomething while she was seeing the President, 

I241 Q And did she tell you whether she discussed wit7 him 

rzslwhen he saw her upset why she was upset? 

Page 40 to Page 45 
BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3/17/98 

::I A I remember that she discussed with him something, 

: z 1 but I cant ’ remember - for some reason, the way I 

: 3 1 interpreted the way she spoke to him and the way she spoke 

was sort of like nothing specific, everythtng 

but nothing specific. 

i6! That was my impression, that she had never 

! 7: said anythin s 

i 3 1 me, but that %p” 

cifrc to these pea le the wa she had to 

o h of them were so rf of - had x- rs, sort 

[g]of understanding or something. Not undentandrng, but 

t 13 1 it was this implied thing, but that she had never spoken 

t I i ~specifically to these people. ThaYs the tmpressron that 

[:2il got. 

iiziand Nel? 

Cl And when you say “these peo@e.” you mean Betty I 

t 1 Ioccasions. shed ’ tell me what she was wearing to a certain 

r?lfunction or a oartv where she saw him. .-I --- - -r- ~, 

I31 Q Hrm bein the President? 

I41 A Yes. So eres ’ more than one that she told me 

[slabout. 

Q Oka 

I76ldothina that she ta Ii 

Do you remember any particular item of 

ed to YOU about? 

isi - A All of them? 

t91 Q Anythin 

A Yes. v? 

specific that comes to mind. 

ell, I remember a pink - I think it was 

I :F ia pink strapless dress for a function. I remember that 

t 12 j she told ma she wore a red dress to his birthday party in 

[131New York. 

I ::; to meetin 

Q Do you remember any items of clothing that she wore 

9 

s with the President, you know, the one-on-one 

ti6jmeetings. 

I171 A Yes. 

1181 Q What do you remember? 

I:iidress. 

A I remember her telling me that she had worn a navy 

1211 0 And is it a dark blue? 

1221 A Yes. 

1231 Q And what kind of dress is it? 

A Well if I remember correct1 

i::&en before. I remember it being short, I t ri 

its ’ a dress Ive ’

ink. 

847 

Page 49 

._.,- 

115: A Yes. 

I161 BY MR. WlSENBERG: 

I?71 Q And when you say nothing ‘ specific.” you mean about; 

t 1s 1 the relationship? 

[I91 A Right. 

Q Do you recall Monica ever telling her that Nel had 

~I~icomplaine~ to k;.about anything? 

j 

I221 

0 Do you recall her sayin 

i::;effect that Nel had complained about t i! 

to you anything to the 

e way the study looked 

t 2 s ] or the condition of the study after one of Monicas ’ visit to 

Page 47 

telling you that Nel had I 

Pardon me for that interruption. Did she ever tell 

! 7 1 

): 

ou 

; 3 1 

anything to the effect that Nel had warned her or sard to 

er “Youd ’ better watch out or youre ’ going to be the next 

i 91 Paula Jones?” 

r-71 A I remember a sentiment like that. but I dont ’

i I I; remember who it came from. 

I:21 Q Okay. But she said that somebody told her 

i : 3 1 something similar to that? 

i:4! A Something like that. Yes. 

. . - c-31 Q 

A 

Okay. Somebody told her something to that effect? 

Yes. Sort of a warning about a sort of - I dont ’

! t!; know if it was the next Paula Jones per se. but a sort of 

~ 

1 I? jwaming. I 

!:?I Q 

(51 ‘ A 

But you dont ’ remember who it was? 

I dont ’ remember who. I 

;?:I 0 

r:z;waming? 

Did she tell you what she said in response to that 

::31 

!24] 

[:5! 

Page 48 

Ill BY MS. WIRTH: 

0 Returning to your testimony that Nel saw Monica 

15 i upset you said a moment a 

t 4 1 White’ House and that you a P so thought she had just met with 

o that he saw her upset in the 

( 5 1 the President. 

i61 A Mm-hmm. 

:71 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

191 Q Is that a yes? 

!91 A Thats ’ what I think, yes. 

101 ‘ Q No, because you said “Mm-hmm.” iilj A Sor Yes. - 

il21 BY Ms. ZRTH: 

0 When he saw her upset, was she just coming out of 

i iii the study? Did she tell you that? 

ii51 A Oh, I dont ’ remember where. 

Q Before the break you talked about some items that 

i if 1 Monica received from the President from Marthas ’ Vineyard and 

I 13 I there was a dress included in those items. .--1 

::91 A Mm-hmm. 

i23! 0 Do you remember discussin 

i 1: 1 Monica during your conversations with her t 31 at relate to what 

any other dresses with 

122 Iwere ’ talking about here? 

!I.31 A Mm-hmm. Yes. 

:24! Q 

A 

What do you remember? 

“.- 5’ > I remember her telling me - well. on different 

Page 50 

Q Okay. And is it like a cocktail dress or a 

I: i business dress? 

A Not really either. I remember this dress, if I 

I:: remember it when she was describing it to me its ’ sort of 

rs~short-sleeve. sort of around the knee-rsh. but not reallv a 

i 6 i cocktail a .business dress. 

- 

or 

171 

181 

AQ tgz ~0;~;; gsn this dress? 

191 Q 

A 

Okay. And what did she tell 

[lOI She told me that she wore rt 3 o a meeting with him. 

ou about the dress? 

Ill1 Q Okay. And did she say anything about what happened 

t 12 1 to the dress after that? 

I131 

I141 

I151 

A NO. 

BY MR. WlSENBERG: 

Q Did she say what happened at the meeting? 

A Yes. 

I 

1161 

[I71 Q What happened? 

A They talked about some things and I seem to 

.__,._ ! :ii remember - -- that ~~ there was sexual contact. 

Q All right. Anything about the dress in relation to 

i:iithat sexual contact other than the fact that she wore it? 

1221 A Not that I can remember. 

Q Did she make any comments about the condition of 

f::ithe dress after the contact? .- ~I 

r251 A Not that I remember. 

Page 51 

Q When do you recall the conversation between you and 

!:iMonica Lewinskv takina olace about this incident? .-a 

[31 A 

Q 

I fhink it-was this January. 

IZjrelation to - 

And do you recall how - did she indicate to you in 

161 

i ; i lawyer. 

A Can I stoo for a second? I need to talk to mv ,.a, 

MR. WISENBERG: Sure. When you come back, just 

i;:knock at the door and then well ’ come and open it. 

[IO1 THE WITNESS: 

Okay. 

[111 

1121 & MS. WIRTH: 

he witness was excused to confer with counsel.) 

Q Do ou recall any comments that Monica made to you 

I ::iin conversation wit t; you In relabon to any dress that she 

I I =,I wore durina a visit wrth the President? .--. 

Cl61 A Yes. 

1171 Q 

A 

What do you remember? 

I remember her telling me that she wore this - 

I :Elthis dark blue navy dress. 

Q And do you recall any comments that she made to you 

I:; j about a dress this dress or an 

trzlthat she had with the Presiden r 

other dress, afler a visit 

? 

1231 A Yes. I remember a comment about “I wonder or “I 

~23 1 hope” - “I wonder if hes ’ going to pay for the d cleaning 

[zs 1 of a dress.” I dont ’ remember if it was specifica 7 ly that 

Page 46 to Page 51 
! 

848- 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 

Page 52 

[ 1) blue dress. 

[I: BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q And youre ’ not sure it was the same - as I 

I :i understand it you recalled this as we were questioning you 

I 5 I about the blue dress. correct? .-. 

[61 A Yes. 

Q Youre ’ not sure that this statement by Monica was 

Ii j in reference to the blue dress, correct? 

191 A Thats ’ correct. .-. 

IlO! Q Could have been, but oure ’ not sure. 

[ill A It could have been, b UT l+m not sure. 

Q And you dont ’ know for sure if its ’ the same 

I :: i conversation in January that you had been describin 

I I 4 i the blue dress. but it could have been. h that wrre 2 

about 

? 

iisi A Thats ’ correct. 

Q And when there was later some publicity after the 

1:; ;Monica Lewinsky story became nationwide news, apparently 

I 1s 1 there was some publicity about a dress? 

i19i A Yes. - 

1201 Q 

I211 A 

Did you make a wnnection in your mind - 

Yes. 

1221 Q And tell us about that 

A I remember remember at some point hearing hearing on the news about 

:::;a blue dress and I suddenly suddenly was shrxked shrxked at the memory, memory, that 

tzslthat tzslthat was something something that she had told me she had just worn. 

Page 53 

[II 

[ZltoI31 

I41 

151 

162 

171 

THE FOREPERSON: Ms. Vvirth, I need to remrnd you 

MS. WlRTH: Keep my vorce up. 

THE FOREPERSON: Please. 

MS. WlRTH: All right. 

@Yk 1s. WIRTH: 

0 The arand iurors have a few auestions about vour 

; s i relationship with your ’ lawyer. Youre ’ represented by counsel 

[ 9: here today who is outside, wrred? 

ClC: A Yes. 

[111 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

I121 Q What is his name? 

A James Bensfield 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

0 And how did you~wrrte to retain him as a lawyer? 

; 2; ymrny how drd I find him? 

A He is - a friend of a vetv dose familv friend. 

I try to 

Page 54 

0 Okay. Asfarasvou k 

ii ;or indirect1 

171 l 

by ;,on behalf of I 

now, was he referred directly 

M&rica Lewinsky? 

i-1 

0 As far as you know was he referred to you directly 

I ,i ‘ or indirectlv bv or on behalf of the White House? 

i6i A -No. 

0 Are you part of any - you and your attorney part 

Ii iof any joint defense a 

I gf aareement with any o 

reement or information sharing 

w er wttnesses? 

rioi 

Ill> 

Cl21 

113; 

114: 

1151 

,lC, 

A No.- 

MR. WISENBERG: Okay. 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q Okay. Getting back to the subject of gifts that 

Monica received from the President, do ou know anything 

about what hagpened to any of those g if& after Monica 

received them Drd she ever have anv discussions with vou 

t 17 1 about either disposing of the gifts 

t 1s Igifts, givin 

%, 

-9 them to someone else. 

etbng rid of the 

Cl91 No. 

[2L7: Q 

t 2 : : Betty Curni? 

5: _I Q 

i~;:her mother? 

’ 

Did she ever discuss with you giving any of them to 

No. 

[15’ A 

OIC-Starr 

Did she ever discuss with you giving any of them to 

No. 

Page 55 

[I: Q 

r71vou? 

Did she ever discuss wtth you giving any of them to 

.-., ~~ 

13; A No. 

[4i BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q 

I z i the fact that she possessed these grfts 

Did she ever appear to Lou to be cOncerned about 

(71 A No. 

13: BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q 

t : i i were discussing a 

Okg. Now, Im ’ $yto&ettu$;;g s~~E,,w 

t 11 Iefforts to 

ually before 

et a ob in New York and we had discussed the 

,121U.N. iob. 8. rd s b e want a iob in the private sector in New 

ii31York? 

1141 A I believe so. 

[24 IalSO. 

[251 Q Meaning in Washington? 

Page 58 

Cl1 A Yes. 

IZ! Q Dii an one assist Monica, to your knowtedge. in her 

t3jefforts to get a ob ‘ in t e pnvate sector in New York? 

[41 A 

r[zi 

fo my E.,ed,j y es. 

Q Whatdid she tel ou? 

A She told me abo Vernon Jordan. 

[7] Q Okay. And what did she tell 

d[ 

ou? 

IS! A Like she told me that he - I r&Y know who he 

t (1 Iwas really, but she told me that he - you know, she was to 

t lo: have a meeting with him and had a meetin 

%. 

wrth him and that 

t I I 1 he was going to help her get interviews at rfferent 

t 12 1 companies. - 

0 Did she tell you whether he had any relationship 

i : d i with the President? 

[lji A Yes. 

I161 Q What did she tell you? 

[iTl A She tokl me that he was his best friend. 

Q Did she tell you what happened at the meeting that 

i::ishe had with Mr. Jordan? 

A Not specifically, just that they talked about job 

1 zp 1 issues and thin s. 

(221 0 Wnd is there an e-mail that relates to that from 

t:3]Monica to ou? 

(241 x Yes. 

1251 Q And dii she ever tell you that before Mr. Jordan 

Page 57 

[I lmet with her that he had met with the President about Monica? 

I21 A I dont ’ remember that. 

0 Do you know of any interviews that Monica had in 

I:! the private;ecto;rr New York? 

(51 

I61 Q. 

A 

What do you know? 

I remember Burson-Marsteller I think. I remember 

iii her mentioning - I know it wasnt ’ Revlon Revlon, I cant ’

; 9 1 remember if Bunon-Manteller is a subsidia 

[ I. o 1 but it wasnt ’ Revlon, it was some sort of sma 7 ler company, 

of Revlon, 

t 11 j but I remember somebody being related to Revlon. I remember 

[ II 1 American Express, but not spet%cally. And there was one 

L : 3 1 or two others, but I dont ’ remember them off the top of my 

ri4lhead. 

Q All right. And did you ever learn that she 

I: zi actually received a 

t 17 1 private industry in I4 

ob offer from any of these companies in 

ew York? 

[191 A I remember one that didnt ’ give her a ob ‘ and then 

L 19 1 I think there was one thatdid. I seem to remember t c, at 

[2Oi 0 

I 2 I i companies? 

Do you remember the names of either of those 

i-2; . 

rl3j 

A No. No. 

Q And can you tell the grand jury what the nature of 

t 2 c I our communication was with Montca over the months of 

:: 5 5 1ecember of 97 ‘ and January? Where were you, where was she, 

Page 52 to Page 57 
849 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 

-~____-.~ XMAXVO) 

Page 58 

r I] if you know? How were you communicatin 

f! 

with her. how often 

12 land when was the last time? That sort oft ing. 

A Well. I was e-mailin her in December up until 

I:;around the - prolably mrd Decer&r because then I went on my 

ts]Christmas ho Ida back to the Unrted States. So there was no 

[ 6]e-mail during tha hme. And then I arrived in Hawart on the 

t7]24th of December, I spoke to her on the 25th of December at 

t 8 ] my parents’ house and I also spoke to her on January - I 

ts]don t remember, the 3rd, maybe, the 4th. After the new year. 

ll”l .--a Q Were vou in Hawaii at that time? 

[ill A I was still in Hawaii. 

1121 Q 

A 

And when you left Hawaii, where did you go? 

1131 I went back to Japan. 

Q 

\::!Christmas? 

Okay. Did you go to Portland at all over 

[161 A I went to Portland before I went to Hawaii. 

1171 Q And did you speak to her from Portland? 

Cl81 A NO. 

Q The conversations that you had with her I guess on 

~:~~Christrnas Day and then in January, do you recall anything ’

tz~]about those conversations? 

A I recall more talk about job thin 

I::ithe President, things about what she dtd on C i? 

s. Things about 

ristmas. What 

i24 jshe did on New Years ’ Eve. 

t251 MR. WISENBERG: Let me just butt in for a moment. 

Page 59 

fll 

121 

r31Eve 

I41 

[51 

(61 

171 

that 

BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q It wouldnt ’ be Christmas Day, it would be 

you first spoke to her, the 24th? 

A No I s oke to her on the 25th. 

MR. WISEJBERG: 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

All right. 

Q What did she tell vou about iobs in those 

Christmas 

What did she tell you about that meeting? 

I::;she told me that she went to see him and that s when I 

Well. I think it was on a January conversation that 

~251 remember - thats ’ what I remember when she wore this blue 

Page 61 

t 1 ]efforts to get a ob ‘ in New York at that meeting? 

(21 A 1 dont ’ know if it was at that meetin but I think 

ts]she did s ak to him. I remember her telling me t 

14 ]spoke to Em about it. 

a at she 

151 Q And what did she tell you? 

A That she told him sort of what she hoped for, 

i:!what she wanted there and about some of the intervrews 

is iand things. 

I91 BY MR. WlSENBERG: 

Q Do you recall if she told you about discussing 

~f?!soecificatlv .__,- _.. ~- , with the President the efforts of Vernon Jordan 

t~~]to help her aet a New York iob? 

1131 

[I41 

gy $.,%$,I dont ’ think so. 

ll5.l Q Did Monica ever discuss with vou the Paula Jones .--, 

[16lWS&? - 

1171 A Yes. 

0 What do you remember about your discussions with 

i :t; her about that case? 

A Some of it was sort of 

I:!!it was sort of the more political side o r 

rsonal opinion and some of 

rt also. 

1221 Q What did she say? 

A Well. we both agreed that neither of us thought 

i::(that a sitting president should have to tes 

tzs]Neither of us really sort of had good things Tnatnal. o sayabout 

Page 62 

t 11 Paula Jones. And then I was also told that - I also 

12 ] remember things about this Newsweek reporter talking to Linda 

ts]Tripp and bein 

f41 BY fiR. WISENBERG: 

around at the Pentagon. 

r5i L-1 0 Would that be Mr. Isikoff? ’

[61 A Yes. 

[71 BY MS. WlRTH: 

181 0 Oka 

t s] lrst of witnFse;k”St E 

Did Monica ever tell you that she was on a 

e Paula Jones case? 

I101 

1111 Q What did she tell you? 

r771 

i;;ifelt 

A She told me that and sort of - vou know. how she 

about it. 

I141 Q What did she say? 

II 91 A I remember that she was - I mean. I auk% this 

i; 6; isnY the specific words she used, but it seemed to rnel ’

rl7lshe was sort of upset. mavbe a lrttle annoyed. And by 

iisjannoyed, not wanting to have to deal with-that becauC at 

tls]the time rt seemed more high profile than this. And maybe 

[20]being - maybe being a little nervous. but thats ’ not 

tzl]something she specrhcally said. 

0 Did she ever tell you that she talked to Vernon 

;z:;Jordan in connection with her being on a list of witnesses in 

[24]the Paula Jones case? 

r251 A I dont ’ remember that. 

Page 60 

[ 1 I dress. 

Q 

i:lDecember? 

Did she tell you that that meeting took place in 

is1 

rz] 

A Yes. 

Q Did she teil you it took place in the White House? .-, 

I61 A Yes. - 

Q Was it in the same room that they always met in or 

I]: jsomewhere else or ou dont ’ know? 

191 A I thin i .-. so. but I dont ’ know. I cant ’ remember for 

[IOJSUre. 

Q Do 

I :: i they talked about clou remember whether she discussed anything that 

A 

unng that meeting? 

Right now, I honestly cant ’ remember anything 

~::~specifically. The problem is that she - I mean, I explained 

tls]thrs yesterday also but she had been talking to me for a few 

j 1 slyears about a lot of these different things and it sounds 

t 17 ]strange now, even to myself. that I cant remember a lot of 

r 1s ]the specifics because Its so brg now, but It wasnt ’ then and 

11 s] I just - I cant ’ remember the specifics so much. 

Q Did she tell you whether there was any physical 

iiy! contact between them in that December meeting? 

I221 A I believe so. 

[231 Q And you believe what? 

[‘41 A I remember that there was. 

1251 Q Did she tell you whether she discussed with him her 

Page 63 

Ill BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q Do you remember what she dii say when she knparted 

[lithe information to you that she was on the witness lit? 

A I remember her tellin me that she had been talking 

::ito Linda Tripp about it because she 3 elt like she sort of had 

t 6 ] more of a rip of what was going on because shed ’ been sort 

t7]0f invotvec!in it. 

181 0 Meaning Linda? 

A Yes. And had already spoken to this Newsweek 

r:iiperson or somethin like that. 

[Ill BY MR. &SENBERG: 

I121 Q Is there any particular thing that she said that 

t 131 led you to the conclusion, the impression you had. that she 

- your words, annoyed and - I dont ’ want to put words 

i::$?;our mouth, I want to make sure I remember it correctly, 

[16JatInoyed aid u set? 

I171 Rl m-hmm. 

Q 

Specific words she said? 

Yes. That led you to that conclusion. Or it was 

i:i&st more her whole attitude or are there specific words? 

I201 A 

ii 1 i attitude. 

I cant ’ remember specific words. It was just 

[?I ‘ BY MS. WtRTH: 

0 Did she,, Monica, ever tell you that she hired a 

I:: i lawyer in c.nnection wrth the Paula Jones case? 

1251 I dont ’ remember. 

Page 58 to Page 63 OlC-starr 
850 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3/17198 XMAXllll 

Page 64 

Q Did she ever tell you that she was asked to sign an 

ii iaffidavit or did sign an affidavit in that case? 

171 A It sounds familiar. but I dont ’ remember 

I:?,idon*t know that - I honestly cant ’

t 17jspecific things that she said or just the way she said things 

tieland my interpretation of them. 

Q Did she say them to you in general or in relation 

I:z;to the Paula Jones case? 

1211 A Definite in general. Im ’ not sure about in 

t 22 ~specific relation to the 

BY MR. &BERG: 

aula Jones case. 

[231 

Q Did she reiterate her previous general statement 

I::$he had made, did she reiterate those to you after she 

Page 65 

t 1 jinformed you that she was on the witness list? 

I21 A I dont ’ remember. 

(31 BY MS. WIRTH: 

141 0 Did she ever tell you whether she discussed with 

[sIthe President what she would say if ever asked in any matter 

r ,O,saY”Y, r 7 e.hm I+ .IW. h-r rolnkinnchin “..a.‘“,“.‘,* with . . ..I. . him7 . . . . . . 

171 A I seem to remember that she had told him that she 

i 6 jwouldnt ’ ex 

8 

ose the relationship. 

1 iziconversation with him in that regard. Anything he may have 

Do you remember anything else about her 

[ I 11 said that she told you? 

1121 A I dont ’ remember anything he said, but I think I 

(131 also remember sort of the idea that there was no evidence of 

[141it. 

[151 Q Im ’ sorry? 

I161 A That there was no - I mean, this is her, not him, 

r 17 1 that there was no - at the time, she obviously had no rdea 

[ 1s 1 that an of her conversations were bein .& recorded and that 

r lslshe dr n t thank that there was anything P rnkrng them. That 

tzolwas her, not him. 

(211 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q Did she ever say an 

I:: i ou recall when this conversation a 

hrng to the effect -well, do 

~211 b 

Ii’ out what she said to the 

resident. when she told you about it and when it took place? 

[251 A It seems to me it was last fall, but at the same 

Page 66 Page 69 

r 11 time I know she had sort of - way before, maybe last year, 

rz jshed ’ also sort of said something like this to hrrn. 

0 

i: i effect. “We would be the on 

Did she ever say anything to you like this, to this 

r 3 1 herself and the President, 4 

two wrtnesses. that is to say 

e would be the only two 

t 6!Witnesses. If we both denied it, there would be no 

t 7 !evidence.” Anything like that? 

ra1 A Along those lines. 

191 0 Was that something she said to you, if you recall, 

[ lolonce or on more than one occasion? 

1111 A I dont ’ recall. 

I121 Q 

tl31the witness list. 

Did she ever discuss with you - youve ’ mentioned 

1141 A Mm-hmm. 

I151 Q 

116 j actual1 

Did she ever discuss with you the fact that she had 

been subpoenaed in the Paula Jones case to give a 

117 jdepositon? 

L131 A It sounds familiar, but I seem to have some trouble 

( lgldistinguishing exactly what she told me last Christmas and 

(3r, 1 then all these things that Ive ’ been reading and seein 

9 

in 

[zllthe news. S ecificall ~ I know we talked about it and 

I 12 1 cant ’ remem er exac ly If she told me that. 

1131 

124; 

0 g If she!old z what? 

A That shed ’

[3;! affidavit. 

en subpoenaed and had to sign an 

[II A I dont ’ remember specifically with the statement. 

I21 0 

t 3 1 about it? 

Specifically a particular person that she talked to 

A Well, I know that she had been talking to Linda 

I: j Tripp about these things, but I dont ’ know about specifically 

t 6 1 the statement. 

Q You dont ’ recall her mentioning a lawyer in 

ii jconnectioiwithNtr statement? 

I91 

I161 0 Vernon Jordan in connection with a statement? 

(111 A No. 

I121 Q President Clinton in connection with a statement? 

I131 A No. 

Q Our investigation has learned that she might have 

~:~lactually received her subpoena on the 191h. which is just six 

j 16jdays before your Christmas Day telephone call with her. Did 

r 17 I she seem to have a - you have already mentioned the witness 

[ 16 j list discussion. Did she seem to have a heightened sense of 

[ 13 1 concern on the 25th as opposed to previous conversations you 

j 2 o j had with her? 

i211 A Yes. I think I noticed that it seemed more 

r 2 3 1 serious. 

Q 

I::l)that sense? 

Do you know whether or not -what made you have 

Just our feel for your friend? 

[251 A A r eel for my friend and also that we spoke more 

OK-Starr 

Page 67 

Q Okay. But you remember talking about it. that she 

I : j told you about it? 

A The case. beino a witness. Thinas like that. Or 

I :; being on the witness list: - 

Q 

! 2; to make sure we dont ’ out words in vour mouth. so correct me 

Okay. But you cant ’ remember specifically? I want 

Or a statement, perhaps? 

Cl21 A At that point. it seems to me it was the 

ssibility of that, but not that it had actually moved 

I::1] porward. ” 

Q 

[:~~recall when? 

All right. And you say “at that point,” do you 

I feel like that conversation about the Paula Jones 

Ill 

r2i 

Page 68 

A I dont ’ remember her tellin 

Q So if I understand your tes 9. rmony. it could have 

me that. 

j3j happenedAyou ust ‘ dont ’ recall it now? 

I’ remember - I don t actually remember. Being 

~~~soecificallv subooenaed doesnt ’ sound familiar. I remember 

i6jthe witne& IisLthe ’ issuing of a statement, Im ’ not sure 

r7lspecifically the word affidavit was used between her and I, 

tsj but the statement, the possibility of that, sounds - sort of 

r s~vaauelv. honestlv. I vaauelv remember that. but not the 

[iojsuSpo&ia. *’ ” - 

Q And you think this might have been the Christmas 

1:: ; Day discussion? 

A Yes. And I can remember that because I remember 

i::;where I was sitting in my parents’ house and Im ’ pretty sure 

ilsiit was the 25th. - - 

_ 

[I61 Q Did she discuss this affidavit or statement in 

t 17 1 terms of that it could be a way of 

r 1s 1 involvement in the Jones case or 1 

etting out of further 

i 19 j Jones case? 

avrng to testii in the 

A I dont ’ remember what she said specifically. but I 

I:yjthink she thought that that might - you know, that 

rzzjsomehow - and I think I thought so, too -that that might 

t23jsomehow be all she had to do at that point. 

Q Did she say who she had talked to about this idea 

iZ:jof a statement? 

Page 64 to Page 69 
851 

esA Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAX(12) 

~__~~_.-.- 

Page 70 

my caky 

tement and becn 

;;; It had sort of mov 

about,$?se LhinyqmP ’ the rssibikty of a 

on a WI ness at and t rngs kke that. 

from bein more general, and sort of 

! 4 ; something that she knew abou and maybe Linda Tnpp was 

r 5 i involved m through Michael lsrkoff and other thmgs to about 

[ 6 j her sort of involvement in it. 

ii i before 

Cl And that brin s forth another question I had, but 

I 

l-e% 

et to that do you t I?. ink that the - her name 

on that witness list on the 5th of December. Do you 

t:ojaa?a ’ conversation of any kind with her before the 

[ 111 Christmas Day conversation where in the course of your 

tlzlgeneral talkin 

[13]wrtness list? B 

or e-mailing she wouid have menboned the 

r do you think its ’ possible you didnt ’ even 

! I I ! learn about the witness list either untit the Chnstmas Day 

i 15 1 conversation? 

A Well I didnt ’ have the op 

i :4 ion the phone prior to the 25th and she d! 

ortunity to speak to her 

rdnt ’ e-mail me about 

r 1s; it, so Im ’ pretty sure she first told me about it on the 

i19125th. 

0 Okay. All right. I take it that given - you knew 

fzyiabout the ~ula..fes case. 

1221 

Q And you knew what your,friend had been telling you 

I::;since late i995;tsut her relationshp wrth the President. 

I251 

Page 71 

Q When you heard that she was on the witness list for 

ii;that case and that she was talking about draftin 

t 3 Ithat might keep her from further involvement, dr 3 

a statement 

[ 4 1 concern now for 

you have 

151one. given that s Y; 

our friend being - given everythrng. number 

e was 

[ 6! knew about her relations I7 

our friend, and given everyt,hng you 

ip with President Clinton, dtd ou 

171 have concern about your friend being dragged into the 6 aula 

(9 1 Jones case? 

A Yes. 

And tell us about that 

Did I think about it? 

Page 72 Page 75 

[?I Q Yes. , 

12! A Yes. 

[31 Q Tell us about that. 

141 A Well, I assumed that it would have to - I assumed 

tsjthat it would have to say that she dd not have a 

t 6; relationshi with the President. 

171 ;gj 6 Did the two of you al discuss that? 

A Yes. 

(9: Q And what can you remember about that discussion? 

1101 A Just that. 

1111 Q Did she seem troubled by that? 

[12! A Yes. 

Q Can you remember-tell us in what way she seemed 

I::ftroubled or how she articulated that to ou. 

(151 A I think she seemed trou r; led just . a general, having 

t I 6 1 to be involved in this,, and that she would have to - or 

t 1: i that - just the possrbrkty of sort of - I dont ’ know. 

j IS ! Having to, you know, just in general having to do it and not 

t I. 9 1 wanting torpo;oe?herself. 

120: 

(2:: A Expose herself as - expose her relationship, I 

t22guess. ’

123; Q Did she articulate a concern about having to - 

[ZC labout possibly being exposed to perjury because of signmg an 

! : J : affidavit that wasnt ’ accurate? 

Page 70 to Page 75 

Page 73 

Ill A I dont ’ think we talked about that. 

Q But ou recall a specific concern on her part about 

it; having to sign this t x. 

A 

ing? 

I41 I think so. 

Q Do you think it was a genuine concern on her part? 

i 2; In other words. let me make sure Im ’ perfectl clear here. 

~7 IYOU dont ’ think she was faking this concern ? or you? 

(81 A I dont ’ think that - I guess maybe I dont ’ think 

rsjshe was as - maybe I inte reted it that she wasnt ’ as 

tlojconcernedasma belwoudbeorlwas. T 

I::; 

0 I tl!ink if Ive ’ understood your - that wasnt ’ my 

recise question, because if I understand your previous 

(131 P eshmony, you completely believed your,fnend. her 

114 Istatements to ou that she had this relatronshrp with the 

t 151 President.;s t\;$ght? 

1161 

[Ill 

Cl81 

AQ t&ay. You dont ’ think she was crazy? 

I191 Q You dont ’ think she was dreaming this up? 

t201 A No. 

0 And I guess my question is do you think she was 

r::idreaming up this sense of concern about having -whatever 

t23jconcem she had, even if,it wasnt ’ as great as yours, about 

tsrjhaving to sign the affdavd? 

[251 A Whatever concern she had, I dont ’ think she was 

Page 74 

t 1 jfakin 

Q 

the concern she had. I cant ’ exactly tell you 

[zppea tcally what that concern was over. 

Q But at least part of it was in the context of 

~:~discussingAthis;~~rnent. 

151 

161 BY MS. WIRTH: 

[71 Cl 

A 

During that conversation, did she cry at all? 

181 No not that one. 

MS. WIRTH: Okay. Im ’ just going to switch gears 

t ;iifor a minute briefly and then were ’ gorng to start talking 

t 1 I j about the e-mails. 

MR. WISENBERG: Just for your knowledge. we 

I ::&pically break for lunch at about 12:30. 

I141 THE WITNESS: Okay. 

1151 BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q 

i :t i the telephone? 

Now, when was the last time you talked to Monica on 

llE1 A 

Q 

Approximately January 2nd. 3rd or 4th. I think. 

1191 And since then, have you received any 

r 2 o j communications. from her by e-mail? 

1211 A No. 

0 And have you had any contact with her since her 

I::;story broke in the news in late January of 98? ‘

1241 A Not direct1 . 

1251 Q Did you a x empt to communicate with her indirectjy? 

Ill A Yes. 

I21 Q 

A 

What did you do? 

I31 I honed her father a number of times. 

141 Q $d you leave messages? 

IS1 A Yes. 

I61 Q Were our calls ever returned? 

[71 A Yes. d( nd I e-mailed her father. And I sent her a 

rs1card. 

[91 Cl 

A 

And what did you say in the e-mail? 

That I was concerned about her and that I hoped she 

i :y i remembered me and I hope she remembered that I was a good 

r 12 j friend of hers and not a friend - one of these people that 

j13jwas going to the press and things. 

[I41 Q And what did ou write in the card to her? 

i :z: her ve 

A In the card to i er. I just reminded her that I was 

t 17 j her an 7 

good friend and that I cared about her and I loved 

I reminded her of just sort of the things that she 

t~ejand I had done together in the past. 

1191, _. Q 

rzojtndtrectly? 

And did you receive any response, directly or 

I211 A Yes. 

1221 Q 

i::ifather. 

A 

Okay. Tell us about it. 

Some time in February, Bill Ginsburg called my 

[251 Q And Bill Ginsburg is her lawyer? 

olcstarr 
852 

esA Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 ’ XMAX(l3) 

__~ ~~ ~~- ~---_ ~--~-- .-----~ - -- 

Page 76 

A 

1: llive in Japan. 

As far as I know. And my father lives in Hawaii. I 

M parents live in Hawaii, I live in Japan. 

[ 3 1 Bill Ginsburg cal Ld my father, my 

e 

arents’ home in Hawaii, 

[ 4 1 and told him to tell me a message rom Monica. 

151 Q And what was that? 

A The messa 

1; jcatherine supports her an % 

e was Monicas ’ oka Monica M 

she thanks her. A 2 ually. I 

[B 1 received another message. 

[91 Q And what was that? 

A 

I :y{ recently m 

Which I figure I have to bring up anyway. Just 

parents received a very short note. 

1121 ’ & From who? , --. 

[131 A From her. 

I141 Q From Monica? 

[1Sl A Mm-hmrn. 

[16! Q 

A 

And what did the note say? 

lt said tell Catherine I love her and I miss her 

iiiiand I miss&yR~tisENBERG: 

1201 Q 

rz11 to imply an 

And, by the way, this question to you isnt ’ meant 

[zzjdid not - WI 

wrongdoing on your part, Cs informational you 

en the Monica Lewinsky sto 

r 23 j not - the first thing you did was not to 

broke, you dti 

t 24 1 and call the Office of the Independent 

up the phone 

unsel and say I need 

r~5jto give you evidence about my friend, correct? 

Page 77 

Cl1 A Thats ’ correct. Thats ’ not the first thing I did. 

[21 0 Or the second or third or eighteenth, correct? 

[31 A Correct. 

141 0 You didnt ’ seek us out, we sought you out. 

A Yes. 

(151 believe she wou 

ain. in light of what Ive ’ told you about when we 

have been on the witness ltst. December 

[16]5th. when she would have received her subpoena,, December 

117 119th~. about a case in which one of the named par+ was the 

[ 18 1 President of the United States whom she was vrsrtrng in late 

[ 191 December, in light of all that or with that as a preface, a 

[ 10 1 contextual preface. tell us every-thin 

[I 11 what she gtd about that meeting WI 9 

you remember about 

h the President. 

Well I remember that she told me what she wore. I 

ii$iremember that she was ‘ - that she was, I believe, talking to 

(24 1 him about these things, her involvement in the Paula Jones 

[25lcase. 

Page 78 

Q And what was it -what did she relate to you about 

ii 1 these specifics. to the best that ou can remember, the 

t 3 1 specifics of her conversation wrt 4 the President about the 

i 4 1 Paula JoneAs case? 

I thmk the issue of there being - I remember the 

i 21 issue of there being no evidence came up. 

Q Okay. How did it come up? Again, this is all 

Ii{ based on Ihat ;s$u;lling you, right? 

[91 

!I01 Q 

A 

Okay. How did it come up? 

I don1 know how it came up in their conversation. 

i :: j just that she - you know, in re 

i 13 1 statement, making a 9 

ards to the sort of 

statemen , and not - from her part. not 

[ 14 1 talking. not exposing the relationship. 

[I51 Q Okay. Would ou say - this is important, I think, 

! 16 1 to get this distinction right. dl en you said - ou 

117 1 mentioned no evidence. this business about t z ere 

! 18 1 evidence. 

being no 

Is she telling you after describing her meeting 

! 1 g 1 with the President. you know theres ’ no evidence, or IS she 

(20 ltellin 

I 111 the ?. 9, 

you that amon 

resident either s 

other things in her conversation with 

e or the President noted theres ’ no 

i?z jevidence? 

A It seemed to me that it was within the context of 

ii: i the conversation she had had with the President, that one of 

12 j1 them noted there was no evidence. 

OIC-Starr 

Page 79 

I. 1 

.-. Q Do you recall which one said that? 

.T. .-3 A 

:3ldic. 

Unfortunately, I think I recall that both of them 

t4: Q What other thin 

i 5: conversation with the Presiden 9 

s do you recall about her 

as she related it to you on 

! 9, than he was and I can 

t 10 lshe said he said, but I think this was 

11: jwas relaying it to me. 

f?21 Q That he wasnt ’ as concerned as she was? 

A Right. I think I also noticed a difference in her 

i :: ~concem somehow in between those two conversations. I feel 

t 15 1 like I remember her being more concerned in January even 

116 Ithough it was really only a few days later, but being more 

t::;womed, but thats ’ just my impression. 

1181 0 On Janua 

:191 A Yes. The Y 

3rd than on Christmas Day? 

Q 

nd or 3rd or 4th or something. Right. 

Okay. Do you recall her sayin that the President 

I:Pisaid anything to the effect of “Just deny” or 

r22 Ideny? Either one of those articulations? 

“&ny. deny. 

1231 A I dont ’ remember that specifically. 

[241 0 What else do you remember? I think weve ’ got - 

tzsjyou toM us about that she seemed more uptight in the 

Page 80 

(221 

1231 

I241 

:251 

A Yes. - 

MR. WlSENBERG: Was there a question? 

A JUROR: Yes. Could I ask a question? 

MS. WIRTH: Sure. 

A JUROR: You said that you had been upset with the 

Page 81 

t I 1 President for some time. Can ou just explain why? 

i21 THE WITNESS: 

t 3 1 for the relationshi 

E&cause I held him more responsible 

than her and I thought - just purely as 

;;;a man. I thou ht l!e was being ap. 

A JUROR: Did you now about a previous affair that 

(6lshe had had with another married man? 

I’1 THE WITNESS: Yes. 

!81 A JUROR: Did you feel that way about that man? 

191 THE WITNESS: Not so much. 

rlol A JUROR: What were vour feelinas about her. a 

;;; i sinole woman, with these married men? 

il2j - . 

[I31 

(141 

llSl 

;t4~~o~NESS 

iti;i;TNESS: Yes. 

IR. 

- 

I thought she was making a mistake. 

p:__Didyoueverlett rer know that? 

i 16 j sharing what was g&n 

When Monica advised you that she was 

on with the President with Linda 

t 17 j Trrpp, did you provrde a 

[:a;ornotitwaswise? 

er with any kind of advice on whether 

!I91 THE WITNESS: I dont ’ think so. 

[20! BY MS. WIRTH: 

[Zll 

i221 

AQ iid you ever met Linda Tripp? 

iz-3, Q Were vou aware of her aae? .--1 

[14! 

i251 

A Yes. ’ 

” 

A JUROR: Excuse me Did you feel that - did you 

Page 76 to Page 81 

. 
BSA 

853 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 

._ ~~_--- --- 

Page 82 

t 1 lget !he impresson that Monica thought the President was 

12 1 asklng her to lie? 

131 THE WITNESS: No. 

141 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

(51 Cl 

r 61 Bleiler? 

Tha other individual you mentioned, is that Andy 

I71 

IR, 

A Yes. 

0 Did vou ever meet him? .-, 

191 A Yes. 

0 Did you ever - again this is a person who she 

i:yitold you she had a sexual relationship with and you believed 

[ 12 J her, correct? 

I131 A Mm-hmm. Yes. 

I141 Cl Didlou ever get any corroboration that there was 

rls~such a relationship. 

1161 A From him? 

[171 0 

I181 A 

From anybody other than Monica. 

Just the other people that she had told. 

I191 Q 

A 

okay. And you did meet him? 

[201 Yes. 

[211 Q Tell us about that meeting. 

A If I recall, the only time I met him, I met his 

I::;wife a couple of times. I met him at 

I 

- theres ’ an open 

[24 jmarket on the river in Portland and met hi? thee,. And 

(251lve ’ been to his house - yes, I think I met him at hrs house 

Page 83 

rllalso. 

121 Q He appeared to know who Monica was? 

(31 A Yes. 

I41 Q He didnt ’ say “Ive ’ never seen you before, get out 

(5 1 of my house”? 

lfrl A No. I iust want to nit 

;;;auestion about Linda: I didnt ’ au 

zntion in r ards to your 

6! she had been 

r said 

?r asking her 

;;s ieas ’ y ’ to talk to because ihe nevei felt like I was jud 

[ 191 her. And I think with Linda, for reasons now I see t 2 

ing 

at she 

12 o 1 wasnt ’ doing that because she just wanted more infomatlon 

(211 that Ashley seemed much more angry about the situation. fhat 

122 1 im ression that I got was that Ashley seemed much more upset 

~2 3 1 at & onica for the situation. And Ive ’ never met any of these 

r24 1 people. 

L-251 Q Do you recall Monica telling you on the 3rd that 

Page 84 

[ 1 lshe had discussed anything related - on the 

[z 1 meeting youve ’ been talkin 

rrqtin 

9 

, this 

.g. about with the Preslden 

srtuation in that meeting? 

that 

[ 31 they discussed at all her lo 

I41 A I think so. 

Q 

[ Zi particular? 

What do you remember about that? Anything in 

A I feel like it was sort of a form - like an 

Iii update. I mean, letting him know things, you know, the 

[ 91 interview shed ’ had and how they were going, things like 

1171 A In the late December conversation? 

[l91 Q Right. 

(191 A 

Q 

I dont ’ remember that specifically at that time. 

iiylor Januax, 

Did she talk to you in either this December 25th 

3rd conversation at all about any input Mr. Jordan 

[ 211 had into t IS Paula Jones matter? And I mean this 

rz31affidavit/st~tem;~1~ or anythlng. 

iz41 

I251 Q Okay. As far as you knew, as far as she told 

Page 82 to Page 87 

Page 85 

[ 1 lyou. her V;mo;eJzrdan connection was strictly job related. 

I21 

THE FOREPERSON: I have one. One of the gra-c 

I:;jurors would like to know, do you feel that Monica was forced 

[slinto either of the two affairs that she had, either with the 

161President or with the entleman in Or 

THE WITN&S: 

on? 

I71 Do I feel 7% at she was forced intc 

[Elmem? 

I91 THE FOF !EPERSON: Mm-hmm. 

I101 THE WllNES S: No. 

IZlhere. Wh 

MR. WlSENB ERG: Let me check and see if lunch s 

1131 

I141 

i&?jtJll;;~i;.h\z:lt. 

0 

;:&wds. correct? 

Yesterday when we met, you brought with you t.ze 

1171 A Mm-hmm. 

I181 Q 

rlslover time. 

These are cards that youve ’ received from Monca 

1201 A Just in Japan. 

1211 MS. WIRTH: Oh, just in Japan? Okay. 

Im ’ going to mark thts one as Grand Jury Exhibit 

I::;CAD-1. CAD are our initials. 

I241 & rand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-l was 

1251 marked for identification.) 

Page 86 

Ill BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q And Im ’ going to put a sticker on the back and ssk 

t:;you to take a look at this. 

r4irecoanize it. 

Ftrst off, tell us whether you 

isj - A 

161 

I71 AQ 

ISI 

191 A0 

Q 

::!;a card, rigkt? 

[I21 

[131 0 

Yes. 

What is it? 

;;ts$ ge;;yg $$oni-. 

The date she wrote is May 18. 1997. 

And its ’ essentially a letter in addition to being 

YeS. 

_9k_. And you recognize her handwriting? 

1141 .- -, A res 

Q 

i :zi beginning up until the words 

All right. Im ’ oingot;nyassy$u to read the 

%h 

A Okay. “Dear Catherine: I miss you so much. k 

I :i I was wonderful to hear your voice the other day. Well, its ’

rlqlSundav. I miqht get to see the Big Creep today. He called 

i20 j esterda an?l s5ii hes ’

7 7 

oin to See if Betty tin come in so 

171 I can ao here. It seems $ hat a. e IS reallv trvlna to aet me 

isi i b&k fhere. Who knows?” 

.,- ” 

0 Okay. And when she wrote “He called yesterdq and 

I:: 1 said hes ’ going to see if Betty can come in so I can go 

[z5]there.” what did you understand that to mean? What did Betty 

;;;have to do with her gettin! in? 

Page 87 

A I don t thin she ever went there if she wasnt ’

I 3 I there. 

141 Q If Betlv wasnt-there? ’

..a 

151 A- Yes. . 

161 0 

A 

Da you know why? 

I think m 

Iii my impression that Be & 

impression was that - this is my wo&. 

was like a cover. 

r9i 0 Dii ‘ Monica ever say that to you? .~. 

[lOI A Not s 

MR.WtS I 

I::;when chowMpdl 

E! 

i::iGrand Jury Exhibii CAD-2 and 3 t& 

[ISI 

II 61 

(Grand JUT Exhibits No. CAD-2 

and CAD- were marked for 

~cifically. No-. - 

NBERG: 

wed. 

We will get a loud rap on the door 

RTH: Im ’ iust qoing to also quick1 mark as 

se other two ca d s. 

L--1 

I171 identification.) 

[181 BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q Ill ’ just ask you to look at them both and tell the 

I:zlgrand jury what they are and if you know when they were sent 

I211 A Oka Well, this ones ’ a birthday card. 

[Z,] ‘ Q Tha 7 is Grand Jury Exhibit CAD3? 

[231 A 

r:41 Q 

Three. My birthday is in November. 

Is it this past November? 

[251 A Yes. And this is marked June 8th and its ’ just - 

oIc-stam 
854 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 

-. --..-- ~. 

Page 88 

11 this is just a card. 

:] ‘ MS. WIRTH: Excuse me for a second. 

ii] MR. WISENBERG: I dont ’ think you called out the 

f 4 Iexhibit number on this last one. 

MS. WIRTH: The second one is Grand Jury Exhibit 

,-..‘ 

I241 

!251 

A Yes. 

Q You were tired? 

Page 89 Page 92 

\ Very. 

nn vnu recall if we specifically discussed your 

N 3rd conversations with Monica? 

111 1 

[:I c 

! 31 December 25th%F &;a~ 

[41 A No. I don’ 

MR. WISENBE 

i zi lunch has arrived. Shall WE 

i7! THE FOREPERI 

[Bj THE WITNESS 

r9i THE FOREPEI 

(think so. 

.RG: I believe that% the signal that 

! break? 

;ON: We shall break for an hour. 

i: Okay. 

?SON: For lunch. And I expect everyone 

iiojback at 25 minutes before two. 

r,, 1 MR. WISENBERG: We are trying to arrange - I 

i;;i&ki to -A ent Rogch is tryin 

have brought lunch and were ’

o find a room for you. 

,>“1 T If F WITNESS: 

VISENBERG: that you wont ’ have to go 

LA.1 ..- _ 

Cl51 MR.V ~~ 

!16lsomewhere. 

I171 1:35 Madam Fore erson? 

[I81 fHE FOREPEkON: Mm-hmm. 

!791 MR. WISENBERG: Thank you. May the witness be 

);o;excused? 

i211 THE FOREPERSON: Yes, she ma . 

I221 

Y 

hereupon, a luncheon recess was r aken at 

[23]12:35 p.m. 

. ..f. 

i241 

I251 

Page 90 

I11 AFTERNOON SESSION 

I21 

rlvtm~ R. IS NBERG: The witness has reentered the grand 

i:!jury room. Is there a uorum Madam Foreperson? 

THE FOREaERSdN: There is a quorum and we have no 

Ii; unauthorized persons in the grand ju 

f71 MR. WISENBERG: 

THE FOREPERSON: 

Itlunder oath 

R&~~Davis. ’ you are still 

[ 1 o 1 Whereupon. 

CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS 

1 ::;was recalled as a witness and, having been previously du 

(13)sworn by the Foreperson of the Grand Jury, was examin . aand 

{ 14 1 testified further as follows: 

I151 EXAMINATION (RESUMED) 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

OIC-Starr 

Ill 

I:; 

(Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-4 

was marked for identification.) 

_ RY MS ..-. WIRTH: . 

Q This is, for the record, an e-mail dated Wednesday, 

!:i July 23 1997. from Monica Lewinsky to you. The sub ect is, 

i6]“Hi ya,H-i “‘ y-a. And Im ’ just going to have you look a t 

[7lthis. tell us whether you recognize it as one of the e-mails 

relthat you provided to us. 

191 A Yes. 

Q Okay. 

i:!ishoulder for a second. 

And Im ’ just going to look over your 

Okay. Theres ’ a highlighted reference to Neysa. 

i ::; Ne-y-s-a, “I saw a lot of Neysa.” This is Monica writinq to 

rlslyou. 

Cl51 A Mm-hmm. 

[I61 Q Is that Neysa Erbland who you referred to earlier 

117 1 in your testimony? 

I181 - A Iassurneso. 

1191 Q And then theres ’ a highlighted reference in 

r2olMonicas ’ mes e to Natalie. ‘ ” 

1211 A ?&-hmm. 

1221 Q Tell the grand ju 

[231 A Natalie is a frien 2 

who Natalie is, if you know. 

Q 

of Monicas ’ from high school. 

[241 Okay. And you have met her. 

I251 A I have met her. 

Okay. And as youve ’ testified previously, The Big 

( :i j Creep is a reference to the President. 

1111 A Yes. 

i :$; on that? I didnt ’

MR. WlSE$BERG: Im ’ sorry. What was the date agai

1141 MS. 

BY MCWIRTH: 

RTH: July 23rd, 1997. And its ’ 521 a.m. 

1151 

[I61 Q 

,171 A 

ghys the time on the e-mail, correct? 

What is the date of Monicas ’ birthday? 

thday is the 23rd. The date I dont ’ think 

,‘,I 

I181 

1191 

0 

A Her birl 

ii 0 j is official for when she wrote it. 

[211 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

iZl is official? 

Q What do you mean by that, you dont ’ think the date 

I--, 

A Well, I - she said her birthday is tomorrow, and 

I::;her birthday is July 23rd. 

Page 93 

El1 MR. WISENBERG: Okay. 

[21 BY MS. WlRTH: 

Q But its ’ 5:21 a.m. this e-mail was sent, in any 

I ilevent, correct? Thats ’ the time on it. if vou look at the 

rsltoP. 

161 A 521 a.m.? 

. 

.~. 

[71 Q Is that what it says? It says, “Sent 5:21 a.m.” 

[El A R’ 

[ 9 1 wasnt ’ at work at “3. . 

ht Im ’ just - Im ’ just assuming that she 

.21, and that she wouldn? say her 

[ 101 birthday is tomormw when its ’ adually today. 

Q Do you have any idea whether the dates and times 

t :: jthese e-mails from her to you correspond to U.S. times or 

[ 13 1 Japanese time? 

[I41 A Thats ’ a good question. I dont ’ know. 

[ISI Q Okay. 

[161 A It could be Jaoanese time. That would make more 

il7jsense. 

Q Okay. And whats ’ the time difference generally 

i : i i between where ou are and where she was? 

I201 A I& 14 hours right now. Then I guess in the fall 

._. .;vr q-2 

,Ll]lLJ Id. 

I221 Q Right. And Japan is ahead of us? 

1231 A Ja ans ’ ahead mm-hmm. 

0 Alfright. She Jays he forgot last year, meaning 

I:“5 / the President and her birthday. Is that correct? 

Page 88 to Page 93 
855 

0S.A Catherine Allday Davis, 3l17196 

---~~ ___- ~- XWW 

Page 94 

(11 A Yes. 

Q Do you know an hlng about that? Had she discussed 

/:jthat with ye thqeyevrous year. 

I41 

I51 Q whathadshetfdlo”. 

I61 A That he was sup sed:o call her and he didnt. ’

111 Q On her birthday. P 

181 A I think so, yeah. 

I91 Q Do ou know whether this 

t IO] 1997 the Presiden 

ear, which was July of 

1 I I] birthday? 

r- rn any way acknowle d ged Monicas ’

I121 A I dont ’ remember. I cant ’ remember if that was an 

t131occasion to we ‘ her anything. 

Ms. WlRTH: Im ’ going to mark as Grand Jury Exhibit 

I: :iCAD-5 this e-mail from Monica Lewinsky to you dated Tuesday, 

[i6]August 5. 1997. subject: “Hope ou et this.” 

1171 (Grand Jury Ex ri tbrt 44 o. CAD-5 was 

I181 marked for identification.) 

I191 BY MS. WIRTH: 

i201 Q AndI for the record, the bottom portion contains a 

tz~]message from Monrca to you and the top portion contains - 

t22]oh. Im ’ sorry. The bottom portion contarns a message from 

t23] ou to Monrca and the top portion a message from her to you. 

t 2 4 ] r s that correct? 

1251 A Yes. 

Page 97 

t I ] before period, whether or not Lindas ’ going to talk to 

;;;lsrkoff. thi?s lrke that. 

Q 

RI ht as far as I remember, yeah. 

(41 

A 

W#atdo you remember about the after? 

I remember Linda telling Montca and Monica telling 

/zlrne that she had talked about a friend of hers, not Monica, 

] 7 ] another friend. 

Q Okay. Did Linda 

i E 1 tell you that Linda got in any kin 

et in an 

c? L 

kind of - did Monica 

of troub over that? 

[lOI A I dont ’ remember that. 

0 You mentioned before Bruce Lindsey, heanng the 

iii; name, Bru~ Liqpa;y. 

1131 

Q Do you recall if you might have heard from Monica 

I::lthe name, Bruce Ltndsey in connection with this business 

t I 6 ] having to do with lsikoff and Linda Tripp? 

1171 A I dont ’ remember. 

(181 MR. WISENBERG: Thats ’ all I have. 

1191 BY MS. WIRTH: 

0 Okay. Calling your attention to language a liik 

I:iibit later in the e-marl where you say “Please dont ’ forget 

[221!0 look after yourself, Monica, no matter hm tantalizing it 

t 23 ] Is to put someone else in front of your needs.” 

What dii you mean by putbn someone else “in front 

I::iof your needs”? Putting who rn h-on 9 of her needs and in 

Page 95 

[II Q Okay. And you recognize this e-mail as one of the 

12 .~. iones vou , turned over to us vesterdav? 

131 A Yes. - - 

141 Q And these e-mails,, by the way, were all taken from 

t 5 ] the laptop computer that you testrfed about earlier, which 

(61 is your hu;banveszompany computer. 

171 

<,I 

0 Ai: 

189jfor the grand jury? %, ht. Can you read the highlighted portion 

. nd this IS in the message from you to 

rlo]Monica. dyd @gust 4. 1997. 

I hope things get straightened out and you dont ’

11318~1 look alter yoursef? 

I::; et drag ed into an hrng too sketch 

Monrca. no ma !t 

Please dont ’ forget 

er how tantalizing it 

t I 4 ] is to put someone else in front of your needs. 

[15]care for him dee 

I know you 

[16]that his life is e x! 

ly and trust him very much, but remember 

remety complicated and involves so many 

t 17]people, and he has given no commitment of any kind. 

“You are a young beautiful educated and 

I :i; intelligent woman, and you have your whole life ahead of 

r201y0u." 

I211 Q Oka!. And what did you mean when ,you said, 

]22]“1 hope,” et -cetera, you dont ’ get dragged into anything 

t 2 3 ] too sket$gm$rt were you talking about there, if you 

[zr]know - 

[251 A I think this is around some time she was telling me 

Page 96 

[ I] about stuff related to lsikoff and Linda Tripp and Kathleen 

tz]Willey. 

I31 Q 

[alwhat? 

So you were hoping that she didnt ’ get dragged into 

[Sl A Somethin like this. 

161 MR. WISENB2RG: If I can - 

(71 MS. WIRTH: Yes o ahead. 

(81 BY MR. WlSENBE& 

t 171 Jones - the Paula Jones case, thin s like that. 

I181 Q 9 

A 

All tight. What else. 

Well that Monica - I mean Monica hadnt ’ spoken 

::i:to him, and that she was sort of talkin to Linda about - 

(21 land also sort of Lindas ’ thoughts on ta 9. krng to Isikoff. 

Q Do you remember discussing this both before and 

I :: 1 after LindaAspopez Isikoff? 

I241 

L25l Q I take it what youve ’ just told us about is the 

Page 94 to Page 99 

Page 98 

I 1 ]what way? 

A 

I:;the Presidents needs in front of hers. 

Well, I think what Im ’ referring to here is putting 

[41 Q And how would you she do that? What were you 

I 5 rwamina her about? 

0 In other words referring to the fact that she was 

i ::i involved with someane who was married. 

r131 A Mm-hmm. Well, and - yeah. 

[I41 Q Okay. Did that comment have anything to do with 

[ ls]the Michael lsikoff story? 

1151 ’ A I cant ’ remember exactly. 

1171 MS. WIRTH: All ri ht. 

1181 Im ’ marking as Gran 8 

Thank you. 

rlg]pa 

8 

Jury ExhibR CAD No. 6 this 

e that contains. in part, an e-marl from you to Monica. 

1201s~ ject: blind date date: Au ust 4 1997. 

I211 (Grand Juryfxhibit No. CAD-6 

1221 was marked for identification.) 

I231 BY MS. WIRTH: 

I241 Q And Im ’ just going to ask you to look at this 

t2s]e-mail. It deals with a blind date that Monica apparently 

Page 99 

t I ] had with s;meo;~~~;d Greg? 

131 

0 

i:l]highlighted line pie 

Anday;7you read for the grand jury that 

151 A Itsa 

t 6 ] 

s “Im ’ glad that youre ’ still leaving 

171 r a speak. 

aursetf apn for re r abonshrps -. rn the pnvate sector, so 

181 Q 

I g ] in dating - 

Okay. So, in other wards, you were encouraging her 

L-I 

1101 - A Single men. 

Cl11 

Cl21 

1131 

1141 

[Isle-mail d 

[ 16]entitled. 

Cl71 

I181 

1191 

(201 

I211 

[221 

[23]10 you? 

I241 

1251 

Q - single men. 

A Other men. 

MS. WIRTH: Okay. Thank you. 

Im ’ having marked as Grand Ju 

ated Wednesday, August 13. 199 7 

Exhibit CAD. 

“Blind Date.” 

, from Monica 

(Grand Jurv Exhibit No. CAD-7 

-7 tllii 

to you, 

was marked for identification.) 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q 

A Yea\. uh-hut. 

Do ou reco nize it as one that you provided to us? 

Q And the top portion contains a message from Monica 

A Yes. 

Q Can you read just the highlighted language. please? 

olcstarr 
BSA 

856 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 

-__ 

Page 100 

Ill 

I.21 

Aa pey including this little part (indicating)? 

I31 A Okay. One little part says, “The Prez leaves 

[ 4 ] Sunday.” And then later it says, “Im ’ having trouble with 

[ 5 ] Marsha again and Im ’ stressed out. I dont ’ want to get into 

[ 6 ] it because I know it is frustrating for you to see me making 

[ 7 ] these same choices and be upset and stressed.” 

I81 Q 

A 

All right. Who is Marsha? 

She was someone in the White House, I believe, who 

: i H 1 ~~tsahj%gt~~rite ’ House. 

or supposed to - or was going to help her 

Q And what do you know about whether Marsha was 

: ::; helpful to Monica or what Monicas ’ interaction with Marsha 

I I 4 I was in terms of Monica trvina to aet back into the White .--. 

[ 15 1 House? 

_- - 

A 

i :7”1 hel ful and 

I think it started out that she was going to be 

there was some sort of thin 

[ 18 ] loo f ed like it would work. But I think in 4 

s that oazurred that 

he end, it ended 

[ lg]up being - it didnt ’ - it didnt ’ work. 

[201 Q Do ou know whether Marsha had been asked by anyone 

[ 2 I] to ask Monica get IT a& into the White House? Did Monica ever 

[zz]tell you that? 

I231 A I dont ’ know about Marsha s 

0 

citically. 

Do you know if anyone else ad been asked to help 

I : : i her get back into the White House? 

R” 

III 

Page 101 

A Not soecificallv. not their name. I dont ’ remember 

[z]their names. 

I31 Q Do you know Marshas ’ last name? 

ldl A I think its ’ Scott. but thats ’ - Im ’ not sure I 

.-, 

[Il]atfirstsheH 

(12 ] point of view 

,131of changed. and then 

i14 jwant to3ay antagonis 

[ 15 ] wasnt ’ goin to - she 

1161 89, MR. WI! 

tic, but that Marsha looked like it 

wasnt ’ oing to help. 

SENBE 8 G: .~~. 

1171 0 

(18 ] was goin 

Did Monica feel like varsha was, in not helping, 

I I q I Preslden ? 

against the Presidents ’ wishes or what the 

hat i toid her what haooened. told Monica what 

i;iwauld remember that normally: 

[61 Q And what was Monicas ’ relationship with Marsha, if 

[7]any durin 

ifl 

this time that she was trying to get back into 

rs]thehite ouse? 

A Well, I know that Marsha upset her at one point, 

[ :zland I think that somethin - it was stran It seemed like 

iioihappened? 

A I think it went against what the President told - 

I:: las Monica put it. that it went against what the President 

[23]told Monica what ha 

Q I thin R 

pened. 

I:zjthought that 

we talked about this yesterday. whether you 

-well, let me backtrack a little bit and ask 

Page 102 

11 ]you, did Monica tell you that the President had told her he 

I z lwould help aet her back into the White House to work? 

MS. WIRTH: 

I :7” 1 marked as Grand Jury Exhibit CA 

Im ’ gain8 to show {“u eats ’ been 

No. 8. w Ich IS another 

[ 19 ]e-mail dated Thursday. August 14. 1997. from Monica to you, 

[ 1 s ] and theres ’ a response from you on the bottom ortion. 

I201 (Grand Jury Exhibit No. CA& 

[:?I was marked for identification.) 

I221 BY MS. WIRTH: 

(231 Q Do you recognize this as one youve ’ given us? 

[241 A Yes. 

!25! Q Okay. Can you read the highlighted portions, 

OIC-Starr 

Page 103 

[ 11 please, first from Monicas ’ message to you? 

A Monicas ’ message to me, okay. “Im ’ sure you 

I: i remember I talked with The Creep on the phone at work and 

[4 ] I was supposed to there, and everything 

rs]youve ’ had a good time with @r. but I ce 

ot uazy. I am glad 

thinly understand 

[6]you and Chris wanting some time alone.” 

[71 Q And thats ’ referring to who. “her? 

IS1 A Her? .-. 

(91 

1101 

1111 

1121 

Q Yes. 

A M sister-in-law, Kelly. 

Q AX right. And continue the next portion. 

A Oh. naht. “The Creep calls me back sometimes 

i;;ilts ’ an old non% ttiin .” 

I141 ge 9 

rls]dear”? 

The sen ence begins with, Well, Catherine, my 

I161 A Right. 

1171 Q 

[ 18 Idear. ’ ‘” Okay. 

Then she says, in parentheses, “I hate being called 

I191 And then your response to hef? 

%&cemed and wis 

A 1 sq.. “Monica Im ’ not frustrated necessarily, but 

i22 jthem.” 

II-@ - thing; - would change - or you _ would change 

I231 Q All right. And the top e-mail from her to you, she 

124 Isa 

1 

s, “I talked to The Creep on the phone.” Thats ’ a 

I 2 5 ] re erence, to your knowledge, to the President? 

Page 104 

Ill A Sorry? 

121 0 

i3lphone” - 

Where she says, “I talked to The Creep on the 

141 

G Uh-huh. 

I zt knowledae? 

- thars a reference to the President, to your 

. -. 

171 “A Yes. 

!Bl Q 

1 g] about the Marsha 

I I 01 reference to Marsha Scott an 

iii j the White House? 

I121 A Yes. 

Q And can you explain in your e-mail what your advice 

I::;was there where youre ’ saying, “Im ’ concerned and wishing.” 

(Islet cetera? What were you trying to say to her? 

[I61 A I didnY really want her to be concerned anymore 

[I 7 ] about getting back into the White House because I didnt ’

I I 8 I believe that she would. I also wanted her to stop seeins 

ilgjhim. 

Q 

!:?!White House? 

Why did yo; think she would not get back into the 

.--, 

A Because it seemed at that point that -the 

I::; impression I was getting from her, that there were 

[24 ]enou h pea le that either were suspicious enough or knew 

[25]some 9. hing. P hat theres ’ no way she wouM be allowed to go 

Page 105 

rllback. 

[21 A Oka . 

MS. WlR!Ii: 

j:iExhibit CAD-Q. which is an e-mail - in oart. its ’ an e-mail 

Now Im ’ going to show you Grand Jury 

i 5 i from YOU to Monica dated Tuesday. Sgpterhber 16.1997 

isj - (Grand Jury Exhibit Nb. CAD-Q 

171 was m. arked for identification.) 

[El p’fUA< \NIRTU. 

191 f 

d. . ..“. . ..I... a. 

3 Do you recognize that as one of the e-mails that 

[ i o j you provided from 

Ill1 A Yea K . yes. 

our compute0 

I121 Q 

rl,]grand jury? 

Okay. Can you read the highrighted pottiin for the 

[141 A It says, “Really I know you are busy at work. 

[ 15 ] Please dont ’ feel like I am tired of or bored or annoyed or 

1161anything about you talkin 

117 ]or anythin You can sbl 

about Marsha stuff or Creep stuff 

8 

7 always tell me if you want.” 

And, again, “Marsha stuff refers to Marsha Scott 

1 :t; and “Creeg stuyeFfers to the President? 

[201 

I211 1~~. Q And this is dated Seotember 16. 1997. 

[221 A Right. 

Q So as of that date, it was still an open question 

i :: i as to whether Monica was 

[zslthe White House through b.? 

oing to be able to 

3 

et back into 

arsha Scotts ’ work. 

Page 100 to Page 105 
- 

857 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis. 3117198 

---- _ _ __ -- .-~-- 

Page 106 Page 109 

(11 A Yes. 

(21 MS. WIRTH: 

MS. WIRTH: 

Thank you. Ill ’ take that. 

Now I'm puttin 

i:itwopage exhibit, Grand Jury Exhibit CA 

in front of ou a 

8-10-l and !O-2. Its ’

I 51 a two-page document that contains a ve 

r 61 Monica to you, dated September 17, 199 7 

long e-mail from 

I1 ’

(Grand Ju Exhibits No. CAD-l O-1 

181 and CAD- 7 O-2 were marked for 

Ill A I think so. 

0 And what was your impression, if you can fade more 

I:; into Monica about what was 

A’ 

i:iit was all - the 

I told her that t ?I 

oing on here? 

ey were - it sounded to me like 

were all just kind of leading her on, and 

r 61 it didnt ’ sound r Ike anvone wanted to just sav its ’ not aoina 

i< i to happen, for some reason. 

. _ - - 

Q Now, on the bottom of the first page, towards the 

I89ibottom. it says, “Love Monica,’ and then it appears that 

[loltheres ’ another e-mail- ’

Ill1 A Mrn-hmm. 

1121 - or another portion of the e-mail - 

r131 

1141 

z Mm-hmm. 

- mavbe at a different time? 

isi identification.) 

IlO1 BY MS. WIRTH: 

I :: 1 orovided? 

Q And you recognize this as one Of the ones that you 

t231her. 

I241 “So I called Marsha all da long yesterday and 

tzsjfinally got in touch with her at 5: tK 0 p.m. She has been 

Page 107 

I 11 stripped of the detailee slot in her office, so for no%v 

[ 2 1 there isnt ’ any place for me to be detailed so I should be 

t 3 j patient. 

“I told her I was very upset and disappointed, even 

I: ithou h I really didnt ’ want to work for her. And then she 

rrjand?% ot rnto rt . . She didnt ’ understand why I wanted to 

[ 7 1 come ack when there were still people there who would give 

[ 8 1 me a hard time. and that it isnt ’ the right political dimate 

rgjfor me to come back. 

“I said I didnt ’

i :y i there to be talk about some 

tl:jfor me. They have all been 

r i3linfuriatin 

I141 “&e asked me why I ke 

[lsjcoming back there. After all. I 1 

t pushing the envelo 

ad the experience o 

p” 9” 

berng 

[lslthere already.” 

[171 Q h? 

A 

And the next paragra 

Oka 

.r 

“So its ’ over. P dont ’ know what I will do 

I :i; now but I cant ’ war any more and I cant ’

r 20 j this crap anymore. In some ways I hope B 

o through all 

never hear from him 

~2 11 again because hell ’ ust ‘ lead me on because he doesnt ’ have 

rrzjthe balls to tell me t c, e truth.” 

[231 Q And can you tell the grand jury what your 

[24 lunderstanding of these two paragraphs was about? 

1251 A Well, she had been - I think she had been told 

Page 108 

r 1 jthat she couki have a detailee slot, which meant she would 

rzlcontinue workin 

f 3 1 be in the Whiie !I 

for the Department of Defense, but it wouM 

ouse. But a lot of things had to be sort of 

r 4 I coordinated in both those - both the Pentagon and the White 

[ SJ House for that to happen. 

And then rt -you know and then it looked like it 

~~~wasnt ’ aoina to haopen. And when she called Marsha, Marsha 

iejsort of %ke?l her 1’ 

Q Well it sa 

r :% jstripped of her detailee Y 

s here, “Marsha said that shed ’ been 

s ot.” 

A Right right which - I mean. I dont ’ know enough 

i :: labout what qoes on ihe White House to necessarily know 

ri3jexactly whaf all this means, but I just remember that the 

~14 jconversation was sort of nas 

firwrth - at least from r rslhnonicas ’ wint of view. with arsha sort of making her feel 

i is ivery uncomfortable and bad about things. - 

0 Is this e-mail something that you and Monica 

i :i ;discussed in a telephone conversation as well, in addition to 

[ ~sjthis e-mail, if you remember? 

1201 A I know I talked about - I talked with her about 

j 2 11 things with Marsha on the phone, but I cant ’ specifically 

r 22 j remember if we, you know - we never referred to really 

j I 3 j e-mails on the phone, so I dont ’ know. 

1241 Q But I mean the subject of Marsha telling her that 

r 25 j shed ’ been stripped of the detail and so on? 

Page 106 to Page 111 

XMAx(l8l 

il5i 

I161 

A Mm-h-mm. 

Q Can you read the highlighted portions from that, 

r 17rplease? 

A Okay. things have been pretty 

[ :g; I will tell you the one very sweet, very mixed srgna 

rzojgoing on first because it makes me smile. 

“Before The Creep left for hrs vacation, I gave him 

[::;a copy of the novel The Notebook. Its ’ this mushy romance 

t23jwritten b 

[24JSOrt of. 8 

a guy that is like Bridges of Madison County 

ut one of the recurrin themes or themes of 

r25tsignificance that comes up in t I? e book is Whitmans ‘ - gee, 

Page 110 

I I I not the rose, duh - Leaves of Grass. I thought it was neat 

i2jand sweet. 

“I enclosed a card wishin 

tillasked in a postscript ti he could 5l.p - 

him a fun vacation and 

nn me a Black Dog 

r5jT-shirt, which you probably know is rom these clothes Ive ’

[6lseen. this restaurant in Marthas ’ Vineyard, if he had a 

~7pshance. 

[El “Well, I found out from Betty yesterda that he not 

rglonly bou ht me a T-shirt. he 

rlola dress. % 

ot me two T-s t nts. a hat. and 

ven though hes ’ a %. g shmuck, that is surpnsingly 

r 11 rsweet even that he remembered. 

Okay ‘“ now for the m Now that 

I::;what happened with Marsha, this will ma i 

ouve ’ read 

e more sense. I 

114 lcalled Betty on Wednesday to find out if the knew what had 

[lslhappened. and she said she knew but she J rdnt ’ know if he 

rlslknew. blah, blah. 

“For three days she ke 

[:iichance to talk to him and tha P. 

t saying she didnt ’ have a 

rlsjfrida 

rf he came to this thing on 

that maybe I could see him. And it got crazy, and, 

rzotCat, fi0st it. I went- 

“To tell you the rut , I dont ’ even want to get 

i::iinto it all because its ’ too exhausting. But the end results 

t23tare that I talked - well, more like cned to Betty in person 

r241on Fnday, and then I was suppo% to see The Creep on 

fzs]Sunday, and then rt drdn t wo 

Page 111 

“I cried for hours and then Be 

I: 1 say he was going to talk to the chief Y o

called to 

staff. I dont ’

j 31 know what will happen. I also said to Betty that I didnt ’

14 Iwant him to do anything that was going to 

rry 

;:;;r-r esterday she called to tell me about t 4 

et him in trouble, 

e Black Dog 

“The fuck if I know what is oing on. He leaves to 

er places for a while. 

olcstarr 
858 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAX(19) 

Page 112 

.-_ BY MS. WIRTH: 

.-. Q Do you recognize that as one of the e-mails you 

i 5 j provided to us? 

A Yes. 

That e-mail was Grand Jury Exhibit CAD-lo-1 and 

::9110-2 - 

i19) 

I201 Aa Yeah: 

A 

-which was dated Sepember 17th. 

I would assume that tha was referring to the 

i:ilthings from the Black Dog. 

Q Okay. So you knew of no other extravagant present 

i 2: i that had been mentioned durin that tine period? 

1251 A No, but I remem %e r talking to her, I think, at some 

- 

Page 113 

111 point about that, and she was very SW at all the 

r 2 1 presents from that one place. 

Q Do you know whether she received those presents 

i iidirectly from the President or from someone else? 

f5! A I remember them coming from Betty, not the 

i 6 i President. 

I7j MS. WIRTH: Thank you. 

!SI Im ’ goin to show ou what rm marking as - 

!9: MR. Wl.!!ENBERy$s. Will you hang on for a secon 

. ‘ 2’ 

,- ‘ MS. WIRTH: 

BY MR. WISENBERG: 

: 1 g 1 hint-hint.” 

231 And then she writes back, “Oh. I see about the bag, 

i 2: jwink-wink.” 

;22j We only want to hear about this if this has 

: z 3: anything to do with her relationship with the President. 

124: A It doesnt. ’

'751 .- Q Okay. 

d? 

Page 114 

:i: A It sounds ve sus icias but it doesnt. ’

121 MR. WISENBERZ 

MS. WIRTH: 

fhank you. 

If you would look at what is marked 

I: 1 Grand Jury Exhibit CAD-l 2 which is two e-mails one from 

r 5 1 Monica to you, hers dated 6ctober 17.1997. and then one from 

r6)you to her, yours dated October 161997. 

171 (Grand Jury Exhrbrt No. CAD-12 

!ai was marked for identification.) 

191 BY MS. WIRTH: 

(101 Q 

[?lIfirst? 

Could you read the highfghted portions from yours 

I121 A “I dont ’ have time to say much, but I wanted to 

13 rthank you for calling me and I really enjoyed talking with 

1: 4 1 ou. I hope I did not offend too much about my diatribe over 

: 15 1 r he man. I was venting and I know he is not to blame for a 

i 161 lot Of the problems. - 

“Also being abroad. people sod of focus on you as 

i i: i sort of a spokesperson for your country. and I get a lot of 

::3:questions about him and U.S. policy, et cetera, and I get a 

:z 3 1 lrttle annoyed at that. 

:::iabout it.” 

Sorry, and I hope youre ’ not grumps 

.-9, Q 

:?;i”the man”? 

And who are you referring to when you refer to 

A The President. 

0 And do you know what you meant when you referred to 

OIC-Starr 

Page 115 

[I ~“the diatribe”? .^. A Y--i. 

If! 

m 11a11. 

0 

[4]call? 

Is that something that happened during the phone 

I51 A Yes. 

161 Q And what ha pened? 

A I was - I ha cf a conversation with her about just 

ii: political issues related to U.S. 

!91 

Q 

i :y;was I ang 

A 

AnylhinRspCC~$h and the fhsident. 

Let met ink. At that time October? Gosh, what 

about at that time? Its ’ hard to remember. 

1121 Her response, the,highlighted portion? 

“I think Its ’ alwa 

I ::iof him which I have a lot of at snes, from someone who is 

rlslnot a hght win nut.” 

r 

s interesting to hear criticism 

Cl61 MS.%lRTH: Thank you. 

Im ’ going to mark as Grand Jury Exhibit CAD 13 this 

I :i je-mail from Monica to you dated October 22 1997. 

1191 (Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-1 3 

[201 was marked for identification.) 

rzil BY MS. WIRTH: , 

i22j 0 

( 23 ] provided? 

Do you recognize that as one of the ones you 

1241 A Yes. 

[251 Q And could you just read the highlighted portion, 

Page 146 

f 11 please? 

I21 A “I have sent my list of crap to The Creep and Im ’

r3lwaiting to see if anything happens. I sure hope so: 

Q 

I! i when she said her 

Okay. Do you know what Monica was referring to 

A 

list of crap”? 

Yeah. I think R was - I think it might have 

I,” i included a resume, back 

a 

round stuff, like educabon and I 

[B lthink it also was about w 

rsrprivate - 

at she was wanting to do h the 

rlnl .--. Q In New York? 

[‘.:I A Yeah, in New York. 

Q Okay. Do you know if she gave the President a list 

i :: iof places that she might want to work or types of jobs she 

i ; 4 1 might want to do? 

A I think types of jobs. Im ’ not sure about 

i i ,’ i specific places. 

Q Do you know what particular area Monica was 

i ii; interested in working in in New York the 

[?91 A 1 

pe of work? 

;zo] P.R., but I 

I seem to remember her te lrng me something about 

dont ’ know if that was a suggestion to her by 

[I: 1 someone else or her idea. 

Q The type of work that she did at the Pentagon, 

i $1 could that be described as in the P.R. area? 

i24i A I think so. 

[251 MS. WIRTH: Thank you. Okay. 

Page 117 

Im ’ showing you Grand Jury Exhibit CAD-14-l and 2. 

li 1 Its ’ a two-page document which contains at the to an e-mail 

r3lfrom her to ou dated November 61997, and on 

r 4 lfrom you to K 

R e bottom one 

er dated November 3 1997. 

I51 (Grand Ju 

I61 and CAD- ? 

Exhibits No. CAD-14-l 

4-2 were marked for 

;71 

rer 

identification.) 

.-, BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q Could you look at that and tell us whether you 

r : i j recognize ihat Fey. your production? 

[I:1 

I:21 0 And could you read the highlighted portion, please? 

('31 A Okay. 

1:41 Q 

A 

This is from her e-mail to you. 

“The job scene on Friday went much better than 

iizlexpected. It was nice. The Big Creep called Thursday n’ ht 

[ : 7 1 and 

2 

ave me a pep talk because I was so afraid Id ’ sou rn?like 

i : 8 ran I rot. Rrchardson is a great guy and I met two women who 

119 1 work for him, also ve 

“Yesterday RI 

:;i ithey are 

J 

cool. 

ardson called me at work and told me 

i :z 1 yet and t if! 

oing to offer me a position. They didnt ’ know what 

ey wanted to talk with me further. The problem 

r z 3 1 IS I dont ’ really want to work there, issue-wise or 

:zr 1 location-wise. Ive ’ already had the experience of working in 

[ 15 1 a yucky building. It was awful actually because I feel a 

Page 112 to Page 117 
Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 

- ___. - ~-- ~. ~~ ~ ~~~-- 

XMAX(20) 

Page 118 Page 121 

Okay. And do you know who that was, The Creeps ’

Lets ’ start at the bottom of the first page. This 

I:iis an e-mail from Monica to you dated November 6. 1997. 

f31 A Okay. 

141 Q 

A 

Can you read the highlighted portion? 

Whew, what a day. I met The Big Creeps ’ best 

Iz;friend this morning. It was very interestin Ive ’ never 

t7jmet such a real person in m entire life. ?ou knowhowsome 

ple wear their hearts on hen sleeve? He wears his soul. 

I”glkdible. 

r 

He ‘ said with re 

/ :;! business. Well ’ see.’ ?I 

ard to my job search, Were ’ in 

e also said The Creep had talked to 

t 12 j him, and as I was leaving he said, You ‘ come very highly 

t 13 1 recommended.’ (tee-hee-hee).” 

i : : ; search 

0 Where she says, “He said with regard to my job 

Were ’ in business,“’ - the words, We’re rn 

t I 6 ] businea ;re i~q;ut~mtIere? 

1171 

ibi Q And also later on it says, “And as I was leaving he 

tlg)sard. You ‘ come very highly recommended.- And then she has 

tzolin parentheses Tee-hee-hee.” Is that coned? 

1211 A Yeah. mm-hmm. 

I221 0 And this is dated November 6.1997? 

i23j A Yes. 

0 

i:!{the Presidents ’ best friend. 

And she saJs thats ’ the date that she meets with 

rzolfriend? _ _. . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . .-, 

1-s. 1 A it mc rxxrn I aonr know n I know, OUI I rnrnn 

; ;; ; soon afteGard;siGtorl;l ‘ 1 ma about Vernon Jordan. 

And here she says that that person, i23i Q All right. 

124 jThe Creeps ’ friend, was s 

T 

sed 

t25jsector possibilitiis. In New ark? 

to help her in the private 

Page 119 

111 A Yes. 

PI Q Earlier in the e-mail she talks about a pep talk 

:jjthat the President apparently gave her prior to her interview 

14 jwith the U.N.? 

151 A I think so. 

Q Did she ever tell you-any more about what that pep 

j76italk consisted of? 

181 A No. Or if she did, I dont ’ remember. 

Q 

t:ijabout why 

Did she ever tell you at any time anything more 

she didnt ’ want to work at the U.N.? 

A Other than what Ive ’ already said about the 

i :: i travel and the sort of government job and - yeah. 

i 13 1 I think it was just that t was too - it seemed like it 

I mean. 

[ 14 1 could be too similar to the kinds of thin s she was doin in 

i 151 the Department of Defense, and that s ft. e didnt ’ want to ?x? 

i 16 1 traveling, doing that kind of work. 

I171 Q Who is Mr. Bacon? 

rise A That was who was her sort of immediate superior at 

~~~~‘” Pentat%$: %%%?’ 

i2ll Can we have marked Grand Ju 

Okay. Thank yy. 

Exhibit 15. CADl5? 

1221 (Grand Jury Exhibit No. AD-15 

:231 was marked for identification.) 

,?A 1 BY MS. WIRTH: ,-. 1 

I251 Q This is a one-page e-mail from you to Monica dated 

Page 120 

t 11 Monday, November 3. 1997. If you could just read the 

12 j highlightedApot$on. 

131 Anyway, how did your meeting go last week? Im ’

~4 j seeing the man on telly a lot because of the Iraqi nonsense.” 

151 Q And “the man* is the President? 

;6; A Yes. 

(71 MS. WIR.TH: 

i89iNo. CAD-161 and 1 

Im ’ showrnz3, ou ~~~~~ua~~-mail~ a rand jury exhr It marked Exhibit 

:101 

II 11 

(Grand JUT Exhibits o. AD-161 

and CAD- 62 were marked for ,--, 

(121 

:131 

:I41 

identiication.) 

BY MS. WIRlIi: 

Q Can you just tell me what the date there is, 

i7i A Yeah. 

I81 Q All ri ht. 

Eartier t 03 

Well ’ get to that in a second. 

ay I had asked you whether Monica had 

1 jz i ever toM you that Vernon Jordan met with the President 

[ 111 before he, Vernon Jordan. spoke to Monica. 

I121 A Mm-hmm. 

I131 Q Theres ’ a line in the e-mail that 

114 lthat says. “He also said The Creep had talked r o him.’ 

ou just read 

f 15 1 please? iisi - A Right. 

[161 A November 7th and 6th. 1161 Q Does that refresh your memory as to whether she 

i171 Q Okay. And the top portion is an e-mail from Monica [ 17 lever told you that. the President had met with Vernon Jordan 

i1ejto you - I 1s I before Vernon Jordan met with her? 

:191 A Mm-hmm. 

- dated November 7th and then theres ’ one 

iI! 1 underneat? from you to Monica dated November ‘ 5th. 

.~~. 

A Well, what I remember is not anything s ci6c that 

i:zishe said. I mean, I - what I remember is that Vernon s” ordan 

[21jwas helpin her throu h the President. 

I221 3 8 

A 

What o you mean? 

Well, that the only way and reason Monica was 

I::igetting the help of Vernon Jordan was through the President. 

1251 0 But do you remember Monica telling you at any time 

. 

Page 122 

Ill 

I21 A0 ~a%$F&swer verbally? 

131 A Oh, es. Sorry. 

0 Thars all right. And is that a reference to 

f:iVemon Jordan, to your knowledge? 

I61 A Ye<. 

Q Did you ever have a telephone conversation with 

ii; Monica about that meeting with Vernon Jordan? 

191 A I think so. 

(101 0 Did she tell you anythin 

I I I I the e-mail about how that meetina 9 

more than whats ’ here in 

.~~. wen ? 

[I21 A I think what I remeinber ‘ from the conversation on 

[ 13 1 the phone, it was more about the specifics about the job 

rl4lsearch. 

Q Dii she tell you anythin 

1 :zi impressions of Mr. Jordan other than w ?l 

more about her 

ats ’ here? 

A The thing is I cant ’ remember if I talked to her 

[ :l ;about him before or after shed ’ met with him. I mean, I know 

[lgjthat she - its ’ difficutt. I - I know she had all these 

tzojideas about what she wanted in New York and that was what she 

~21lwas going to sort of tell him. 

I know she told me his name, I think. on the phone 

Ii:iat some point and Id ’ forgotten it. 

1241 0 She refers to him here as the best ‘ friend.” 

I251 A Yeah, but I - see, I think - I dont ’ know. I 

Page 123 

r 1 jfeel like this e-mail here, November 6th, cama afler I spoke 

[zlto her on the phone, and on the phone she told me his name, 

t3jand thars why on the next one.1 ask, “Have you told me his 

[ 4 1 name?” 

[z;friendn? 

Q You say, Whos ’ the BF,” meaning. “Whos ’ the best 

.-~. 

I221 A Mm-hmm. 

i231 Q And then on bottom, one from - this is still the 

: 24 1 first page - from Monica to you dated November 6th. And 

: 2 5 1 then theres ’ yet another one on the second page. 

Page 118 to Page 123 
860 

Catherine Allday Davis. 3117198 xMAx120 

Page 124 Page 127 

t 11 that Verne; Jordan had s 

2 

I3; 

I think so. 1 

oken to,the President abput Monica? 

ut I don t remember spec16cally. 

Q Where she writes at the end,% I was leaving, he 

t 4 1 said, You ‘ mme very highly recommended. And then in 

[slparentheses she wntes, Tee-hee-hee.” Do you have any idea 

(61 what she meant by that? 

A 

Iiijoke on the idea that You mme very highly recommended” can 

Well, yeah, I think shes ’ writing to me, making a 

t 9 I mean two things. 

1101 Q Meaning what? 

I::iofaA Well, meaning that, to me, the joke is like a sort and this is onl 

t I 3 J is sort of a - almost r- Ike sexual - its ’ like in regards to 

to me as far as I know - the joke 

t 14 1 like the sexual 

Q 

art of their relationship. 

The other interpretation of course. meaning that 

I:z;she came hiqhlv recommended for a j&b? 

ii7i A- Yes. 

0 All right. Now, looking up above to the e-mail 

i:ilfrorn you to Monica dated November 5. 1997, can you read the 

(201 highlighted portion? 

A All ri 

I:: i name? Can you. 

ht. 

7 B 

Whos ’ the BF? Have you told me his 

hope that works out for you. Let me 

::3jshe told me, I guess. All I know is what she told me,.andit ’

:;4 lseemed to me she didnt ’ know If anyone knew anything 

; :S lspecifical 

::6lmnnect et’ 

but it seems like - I think this is all 

to the same things with Evel 

: 17 1 cant ’ remember if she was invotved in t 

n Lieberman. and I 

IT IS stuff with Marsha, 

r~sjbut itwas this idea that she was - not like threatening 

: 191 him, but the just - they didnt ’ want, her there because they 

fzojthought herL havror was inappropriate then, and they were 

irljwomed about her being again in a situation where she woukl 

rzrjbe near him. 

I231 

A0 Yes. 

“She” being Monica. 

!241 

;251 Q One of the e-mails that you read, I think - that 

tz3jknow.” 

Q Okay. When you say, “Can you,” did Monica express 

I::iat any time a mncem about keeping names private in terms of 

Page 125 

;;;e-mails an: tele$Fnes? 

131 Q And “BF again refers to “best friend”? 

141 A Yes. 

151 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q What would she say in that regard? I mean, do you 

I ti remember anything in particular or any instructions or 

[alanything? 

A I think she just - I remember her sayin 

I iiiwas just a little bit nervous about saying 

that she 

- using peop E!* s 

ilijreal: usin 

ll?, .--a 8 

peoples ’ names. 

Both in e-mail and on the teleohone? 

[131 A Yeah, mm-hmm. 

Q On the telephone would she use a nickname for the 

I ::i President or a nickname for anybod else? 

A On the telephone I t fY ink she used nicknames for 

i :ti the President, but I cant ’ remember it for anyone else - I 

il5jdont ’ think for anyone else. 

Q 

I:zion the telephone as well, or just Vernon or - 

And would she call Vernon Jof;;;hg;best friend” 

rzljremember. 

A 

I::; telephone. 

I seem to remember her mentioning his name on the 

Q All right. So was there a higher level of mncem 

i::iin the e-mails in terms of keeping - 

Page 126 

[II A Yes. 

[21 names out of it? 

I31 2 Ves. 

Q All right. And reading again up on the top - this 

I:; is now an e-mail from Monica to you dated November 7. 1997. - 

t6lwhat does she say in response to you in the highlighted 

(7 1 portions? 

“Im ’ a little nervous to do the whole name of the 

tl4lon with him.” 

(151 ig: :FENBERG: Okay 

iI61 

..- ..", %TH: 

(171 

Do youN2ve any questions? 

MK. WISENBERG: 

[I81 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

I191 Q Ive ’ got a question I ust ‘ thought of. 

There seem to be a lot o t e-marls some of which 

Iz:iwe ’ ve ’ read and some of which well ’ continue to read. I guess, 

rzrlabout Marsha Scott 

I231 A Mm-hmm. 

1241 Q The Marsha thinq. 

A Rinht 

OIC-Starr 

Page 128 

r 11 ouve ’ read today said something to the effect of, “Others 

~21 t; ave been taken care of.” 

[31 A Ri ht. 

ill Q 

A 

&at did she - did she speak to you about that? 

I think she thought that there were other woman 

j 2; that had been taken care of. 

i71 Q In terms of - treated better in terms of where 

L-1 5 3 I thev ,~ ended uo? 

:91 A ’ Mm-hmm. 

iiflthat? 

Q Okay. Do you remember anything more specific abo 

::?I A No. 

::31 MR. WISENBERG: 

MS. WIRTH: 

Okay. Sorry. 

Im ’ showing ou now Grand Jury 

/i:iCAD-17 which is a couple of e-mails. Fhe bottom portion 

: :6 1 one from Monica to you dated December 9. 1997. 

i 

::71 (Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-l 7 

::91 was marked for identification.) 

!91 ‘.--, BY MS. WIRTH: 

h Can you read the highlighted portion? 

ii T i you recog y t+iess3ne as one you provided? 

First, 

:221 

:231 Q Oka Go ahead. 

::41 A “My r ife is still in turmoil. I had given m 

:25)notice for the end of this month. Dont ’ have anything x rm 

Ext 

S 

do 

libit 

Page 129 

i 11 in New York. Im ’ getting frustrated. Things have been crazy 

rzjwith The Creep, but I did have a wonderful visit with him on 

r3jSaturday. When he doesnt ’ put his walls up it is always so 

~4 1 heavenly.” 

Q 

Iz;the telephone abou that visit in early December of 97? ‘

Did you ever have any conversation with Monica on 

171 A If I did, I dont ’ - I mean. that -this one in 

i 8 j particular? 

191 0 Yes. 

::01 A I dont ’ remember. 

Q Do you remember any visii in December other than 

i if ; the one that you already discussed earlier today in late 

::3jDecember? 

:141 A Discussed on the 

I 5 I this one. After a while. it was ius P 

hone? We might have talked abo 

sort of - thev were 

iiijall blendin to ether. 

::71 

::31 k~~R$,~,,aw: ’ - 

‘191 

,A?( ‘

2 Th&says Tuesday, December 9th, right? 

I 

_-“1 

Q Sz‘ Monday ’ would be the 8th Sunday the 7th. 

::liS,aturday would be the 6th. 

:231v1srt with him on Saturday.” 

It says, “I did have a wonderful 

::4j A Mm-hmm. 

:251 Q So that would be the 6th. 

Page 124 to Page 129 
1 

861 

BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3ll7198 XuAX(22l 

_._ _ __.~~~ ._-.-- -----~ ---- ~~ 

Page 130 Page 133 

Now, earlier you spoke to this. Let me ask you 

illagain. You mentioned your hone calls on Christmas Day and 

I3 IOn the 3~,$-“d”,“=&?${g~~$~. the Christmas 

I:; Day phone call, when woukf have been thesI ’ before that, if 

[S] you know? 

A I cant ’ remember if I spoke to her on the phone in 

ii i December before I left. 

(91 Q Okay. And when did you leave for your vacation? 

,101 A December - mid-December. December 17th. something 

i ;; i like that. 

Q Okay. I spoke to you before lunch about 

I ::; Ms. Lewinskys ’ name showing up on a witness list on the 

.__,~~ I I P I 5th of December. 

[151 A Mm-hmm. 

Q And this e-mail of the 9th indicates that she 

1:: i at the White House on Saturday, the 6th. 

Do 

i :89iat the White d 

ou recall her ever connecting this meeting 

ouse on the 6th - this is obvrously 

rzolthe first time youre ’ hearing about it in this e-marl 

was 

izljon the 9th? 

Page 131 

f 1 j knowiedgeAthat;jnie had wound up on a witness list? 

,,I 

LL, 

131 ii Oka 

Isi ’

MS. WIRTH: All ri 

P 

ht. Now Im ’ going turn to 

[6] P o her. Im ’ oin to mark as Grand Jury Exhibit CAD-18 

ackage of e-mails that basica y contained e-marls from you 

r~lthis e-marl 4 ate 8 May 19, 1997, from ou to Monrca. 

[@I (Grand Jury Exhibit Lo. CAD-18 

(91 was marked for identification.) 

[lOI BY MS. WIRTH: 

[ill Q Do you recognize this one? 

I121 A Yes. 

Q 

i :: j started to e-mail Monica from Ja an. 

Does this e-mail givelou any clue as to when you 

I151 A I assume I starte s wntrng .’ her as soon as it was 

rislset UP. 

Cl71 0 What do you say there that leads you to believe 

Ilelthat? 

1191 A It says, “Yeah. I finally got my e-mail set up, so 

r 20 1 now you can write me whenever ou want.” 

(211 MS. WIRTH: t ‘

Im ’ goin 

Okay. hank you. All right. 

iZ:i 1997. from you to ?+I 

to show you now an e-mail dated May 27. 

onica. 

1241 

[25; 

(Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-19 

was marked for identification.) 

Page 132 

111 BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q 

I:; highlighted portion 

Do qou recognize it, and, if so, can you read the 

A Yes. “Monica, Im ’ sor 

I: iwe were nearer each other so I could x 

you are hurting and I wish 

ave ,vou over to dinner 

r 6 ] or we could go to see BK and see a movie. 

171 Q Do you know what youre ’ referring to when you said, 

r a 1 “Im ’ sorry youre ’ hurting”? 

A Not this specific time. I mean, theres ’ many 

r !i ‘ I times, so I cant ’ - I dont ’ remember. 

I:11 0 And thats ’ dated May 27. 1997? 

1121 A Yes. 

I131 MS. WIRTH: All right. 

f14! MR. WISENBERG: 

BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Hold on for just a second. 

I!51 

I161 Q Okay. Ive ’ highlighted more, correct? 

I171 A Yes. 

I19! Q Of CAD-l 9. correct? 

1191 A Yes. 

I’DI. Q All right. Its ’ dated May 27th. Now, if youd ’

12 11 just read the complete portions that have been highlighted, 

1~2 1 Including ;hat !. ust added. 

123i I hope your weekend is not too awful even though 

~24 lyou had that bad Saturday. Monica, Im ’ sorry ou are hurting 

(2 5 1 and I wish we were nearer each other so I cou Y d have you over 

ay. I dont ’ think it was 

[231today. 

1241 Q Okay, all right. 

1251 A But, yes. 

Page 134 

Q All right. Yesterday in our interview you 

i : I mentioned that. 

I31 A Yes. 

I41 Q Okay. Do you recall approximate1 when he would 

[ 51 have said that to her, based on what she has tot J you? 

A Well, I -whenever it happened. Im ’ sure she told 

I76irne about it very soon afterwards. But just from reading 

r s 1 this, I cant ’ remember if that was that - 

r:iishe - 

Q Okay. You dont ’ know if it was this weekend, but 

1111 A Right. 

I ::; that conversation had 

Q Butdogn7 recall, in general, when she told you 

A It was a while ago. I would think it would be last 

I : :! summer, maybe, somethmg like that. 

0 Okay. Atl nght. Do ou recall whether or not he 

I :t; ave a reason for that, for - again, hrs IS based on what 

itl 

7, 

( 1 a 1 onrca told you. 

r 19 1 just friends? 

Did he give a reason for why they had to be 

[201 A Just from what she told me, there were just - 

r 2 I j there were a couple of things she told me, yeah. 

I221 Q And what were they? 

1231 A She told me a part of it had to do with him feelina 

[24jbad. 

I251 Q All tight And what else? 

Page 135 

A That he didnt ’ want to - I think some of it had to 

I:{do with not wanting to hurt her Monica. 

131 0 Oka And what else? 

141 A And 1 know that the First Lady was brought up, and 

t 51 I think also his dau hter. 

[61 MR. W&NBERG: Thats ’ all I have. 

MS. WIRTH: Okay. Im ’ showing you Grand Jury 

Ii;Exhibit CAD-20, which is an e-mail dated June 3. 97. ‘ from 

r 9 1 you to Monica. 

[lOI (Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-20 

[ill was marked for identification.) 

[121 BY MS. WfRTH: 

[I31 Q hted part - 

i:Zicoaster 

A 

And if you could just read the highli 

“Im ’ sorry youre ’ on an emotional ‘ ro 9 ler 

- and thats ’ in uotes - “ri ht now. What can 

f 16 1 you do in your free time %I at may .he 9 p 

117 jget your mind off things temporanl ? 

you either refocus or 

0 

~:~jproduction? 

And thats ’ an e-mar r you recognize from your 

1201 A Yes. 

Q And do you know what you meant when you 

i::ireferred to the “emotional roller coaster” that 

[23lMonica was on? 

A I was refenin to something that she had 

I::;said. She said “emotional ro 9 ler coaster.” I was just 

Page 130 to Page 135 OIC-Starr 
862 u 

Catherine Alldav Davis, 3117198 

-~ 

XMAxr2~1 

i 11 referring to that. 

Page 136 

I think it just refers to - if I remember 

I:; correctlv. when I was writina this. it was about the 

i4 j President. about being happy with how thinqs were aoina 

isjand then being ve sad Witti how things w&e going: - 

6, ‘ MS. Wll%-t: All riaht. Grand Jurv Exhrbii CAD-21. 

is1June5 97. ‘ andthetopf&ngonefromyoutdherdatedJune ‘

---- -- - - . 

1; itwo e-mails the bottom ortion”being from her to you dated 

1916. 1997. 

(101 (Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-21 

::I] was marked for identification.) 

;121 BY MS. WfRTH: 

[?31 Q Can you read the highlighted portions of hers 

Page 137 

l I j believe he would lie to me like that. Write me back.’ 

I21 Q Okay. And his secretary is Betty Cunie? 

I31 A I assume so es. 

I41 Q Shes ’ refen &I! 

15 1 secretary“? 

to here as “The Big Creeps ’

[61 A Yes. 

Q And “the woman he said” - and “he ” being the 

ii 1 President, I assume - he ‘ had talked to about me,*was ‘

[g1Marsha? 

1101 A I think so. 

Cl11 MR. WlSENBERG: Whats ’ the date on this one? 

[I21 THE WITNESS: June 5th. 

i131 BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q And your response, June 6th. could you read the 

ii:; highlighted portion? 

Cl61 A Okav. “Could it be that the assistant didnt ’ know 

j 17 j who you were but the woman does? Forgive me for being 

~:51scatterbrained, but what is the NSC again? 

this is so difficult 

i23lcase.” 

!241 Q And you wrote, “Maybe ou should write off all he 

i 2 5 1 said on trying to help you get back in. ” Lzause of your 

Page 138 

[I 1sense that what? 

(21 A 

Q 

What. the writing off part? 

I:Iwrite off all he said on t 

Yes. Why did you write there, “Maybe you should 

in 

r5jThats ’ back into-the Whi WI e

to help you get back In”? 

ouse? 

I61 A Yeah. 

I71 

I81 

AQ Why did you write that? 

Because rt seemed to me that there was no way that 

l91she was going to get back into the White House and that he 

rlo1was just sa 

d 

ing that. 

!::!at the NSC7 

Do you know anything about her attempt to get a job 

,__,-.. --.---- 

1131 A She told me about it, but I dont ’ remember. 

ii4, Q 

i:5i 

Do YOU know if anvbodv heloed her with that? 

A I dont ’ remember. - - ’ 

[161 MS. WtRTH: Okay. Im ’ showing you Grand Jury 

I: 7 1 Exhibit CAD-22. an e-mail from you to Monica dated Sunday, 

[IslJune 6, 1997. 

I191 (Grand Jurv Exhibit No. CAD-22 

i20; was marked for identification.) 

s-1 .--I BY MS. WIRTH: 

I221 Q Can you tell us whether you recognize that as one 

:2 3 1 of yours anAd then read the ht hlighted portion? 

Oka yes. 

:;:iOther than that. is 

t “f?ave you heard from Him at all? 

t ere any other news and/or goingson7- 

Page 139 

Ill Q And “Him” is with a capital “H”? 

[21 

[31 

141 

[51 0 

161 A 

0~:. youre ’ referring to the President? 

I71 MS. WtRTH: Thanks. 

Im ’ showing you Grand Jury Exhibii CAD-23 two 

~8s~e-mails. the bottom portion from her to you dated Monday, 

r 1 o 1 June 9. 1997, the top, your response to her, Tuesday, 

rlljJune 10. 1997. 

1121 (Grand Jurv Exhibit No. CAD-23 

ii3i 

1111 

was marked for identiication. j 

BY MS. WIRTH. .-.a _ _ 

1151 Q Would you tell us whether you recognize those as 

[16]e-mails you provided and read the highlighted porbons. 

t 17 1 beginning with her e-mail first? 

1181 A 

rlsjthat she got m 

Okay. “Update: So Betty called to let me know 

rzojwhom I called & 9, 

pa&a e at 1130. At 3:30 Marsha, the woman 

st wee whose assistant said she didnY know 

[211me, called to say, Oh,. ‘ she had been out for the past 

f22jtwo-and-a-haff weeks n surgery, and shes ’ so she didnt ’

t23jretum my call sooner. When can you come an 7 see me so we 

[24]can get YOU Out Of this little SitUation?’ So we set up a 

fzsjdate for next week. 

Page 140 

111 -And then I said, I ‘ was just concerned because 

t2 1 your assistant didnt ’ know who I was.’ She said that of 

t3jcourse she knew who I was. Her assistant must have looked my 

f 4 J name up in a Rolodex and it wasnY there, so she didnt ’ know 

rslwho I was. 

i?lThats ’ all for now. Love, M.’ 

-Yeah, right. Well, I guess he got my note. 

Q Okay. And do you know what she was referring to 

i: 1 when she talked about the package that Betty called to let 

i 101 her know that she ot? 

[111 A Do ?remember what was in it? 

(121 Q Yes. 

[131 A 

Q 

You know - no. Not just from readi 

And when she says on the bottom, %I 

this, no. 

I141 el!, 

~151 ot my note,” do you think that note refers to what was In 

I guess he 

1161 w e oackaoe? .--. , 

I171 A 

1181 0 

Maybe. I dont ’ know. 

Do 

A 7 

ou know what was in the note? 

I::; back into the White House. 

Wel, I think that it had to do with getting her 

I211 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q Do you remember anything other than U-e e-mail 

r::l]itself about this time sequence? Let me read it a ain. 

L241 The e-mail is June 9th. 3:51 p.m.. from % onrca to 

~rs~you. “Update.” “So Betty called to let me know that she got 

Page 141 

[ 111 two-and-a-half weeks? 

f121 A Ri ht Other than the fact that it sounds like the 

t 14 jcall from Marsh; I mean 

[ 13 1 note to the Pres. ent was the reason that she got a phone 

I151 Q Well, just other than this message ftsetf - 

[I61 

Aa Dotf:i;this matter? - do you remember having any further talks about 

[I91 A 

cl 

Not this specifically, no. 

1201 

I211 BY M;%iRTH: IRTH: 

I221 li Q 

r23)response? 

Okay. And can you read from your highlighted highlighted 

[24 124 1 I A Wow., vou y00. go,oirt g. Im ’ im 

8 

ressed. 

r 2 5 1 your mind to something. have done ie it an 

Way to put 

hopefully be 

OK-Starr Page 136 to Page 141 
-_. 

---. __ .- 

Page 142 

863 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAXf24l 

3 

.-. 

Page 145 

[ 11 rewarded. I hop” r ou get back into the White House and out When I read your e-mails sometimes I cannot even 

[ 2 1 of the black ho, e o the P. Sour@ kke the woman was cool, 

[ 3 1 or was sheQwerzny ;;; hone? 

141 ” & ts the Pentaqon? 

I51 

161 

i l i Exhibit 

rslis an e, 

flolportion 

t111 

1121 

il3j 

iI41 

I151 

1161 

i171 

rlslportion 

ri9i 

identification.) 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

2 ~~~you recognize this as being provided by you? 

Q ‘ A%, if so can you read from the highlighted 

of Monicas ’ e-mail? 

A “On everv other front mv life scenes are not so 

i zo jgreat. I met with Marsha yesterday and it was ve 

r21)rnteresting. There was most certainly a disconne 3 on what 

[22 1 he said he told her and how she acted. She didnt ’ even know 

tz3)what my title or my job was about. 

[24]0p4?nin St0 offer. 

She didnt ’ have any job 

I251 4 nstead. she made me go over what happened when I 

Page 143 

f I 1 had to leave, who had told me, and then proceeded to confirm 

r z 1 Evelyns ’ story about myl - thus IS in quotes - 

r5)inappro “‘ riate behavior.’ 

“TRen she asked me with such nas 

i:ipeople gossi 

women there and 

t 6 Iwas so upse P 

ing about me, why did I wan v to come back? I 

. I really did not feel it was her place to 

r 7 lquestion me about that. 

“Later on I said somethin about bein tokf I could 

I “, i come back afler November an 8 she want er?to know who told me 

[~olthat., So I have placed a dl to him, but I dont ’ know what 

;;;;rsgornqto hagpen. 

foun out today that I didnt ’ get the NSC job. 

[131To top it all off, The Big Creep is wearing one of m ties 

r I 4 1 today. I think Im ’ just going to have to walk away f om It 

t151all.” 

I161 Q Okay. Did Monica give the President any ties, to 

t 17 1 your knowledge? 

1181 A Yes. 

1191 Q Do you know about how many? More than one? 

I201 A Yes. 

I211 Cl And where she says that she told Marsha, “I said 

[ 22 1 something about being told I could come back after November, 

r 2 3 I and she wanted to know who told me that.” And then in the 

f z 4 1 next sentence she says, So ‘ I placed a call to him.’ 

I251 A Mm-hmm. 

Page 144 

Q Does that im 

I: ) President was the person do tolcrher she could come back 

ly to ou that shes ’ saying that the 

13 1 after November? 

[41 A 

Q 

Thats ’ what it implies to me, yes. 

[51 Did she ever tell ou that the President told her 

r 6 1 that she could come back to wo& in the White House after the 

r 7 1 election in 96? ‘

[El A I think so, yes. 

I91 MS. WIRTH: 

I:i;lts ’ an e-mail ated July 3 1 

Ok?. 

All right. Thank you. 

7 from ou to Monica. 

I121 

;; ;z;;Tchiiand, z;Dy;ibit CAD-25. 

1131 wars marked for identification.) 

1141 BY MS. WIRTH: 

[151 0 Do you recognize it. and, if so, could you read the 

[ 16 ] highlighted portion. 

A All right. Marsha ‘ is obviously working from a 

i :i i place of pettiness and jealousy. 

I I 9 I unprofessional I cant ’ stand it. 

Her remarks to you are so 

[ 20 1 teenager. 

She sounds like a cattv 

[211 Im ‘’ worried about you, Monica. Again, I think 

122 1 your idea to leave the area or 

[ 13 i a good one. I think you are rn .?he mrdst of a dangerous 

et out of government work is 

[ 74 1 s cholo really srtuation. Im ’ at a loss as to make you feel 

; 2 5 1 1s e er or 8 elp rf I could possibly do either. 

:?: believe some of the things you tell me. It all sounds so 

.? dramatic ‘ and oainful for vou. .-. 

“Is youitrip to L.A: for holida 

i l j Maybe you will feel a little better 

:f! mean to sound so disjointed! but 

17 >disjointed. I know it is your lrfe an 

i 3 : 

!9! ,P ell me how to live mine, but I canno 

resume to tell you how to live it as 

r 

ou would never 

r I: 1 concerned.” 

help being very 

[:;I Q And why did you express in this e-mail either 

r 12) your feelings that she was in the mtdst of a dan erous 

[ 13 1 psycholog~call 

t:4lconcemed? \xh 

you say here, situation and tha ? youre ’ very 

[:s)this, if you 

at was gorng on at the time that you wrote 

remember7 

i:tiit 

A Well, I think this islElaa 

through her was that he was IL 

I was following 

t 12 1 t&in 

was sort of 

her onething ’ and it would never materialize, and she 

t14iwas believing him. 

123! 

[i;! her 

And I had no reason to think that he was telling 

ou know, the whole truth in terms of getting her .obs 

(zt!and r. ryrng to help her in any way. But she really, real 1 y 

fz3)believed rt. And I was bothered by - by that. 

[i4] MS. WtRTH: Break? 

[251 THE FOREPERSON: Break time. 

MS. WIRTH: 

Page 146 

Okay. Thank you. 

MR. WISENBERG: For7 

THE FOREPERSON: Fifteen minutes. 

MR. WISENBERG: 

THE FOREPERSON: 

Okay. May the witness be excused? 

Yes, she ma 

MR. WISENBERG: Well ’ come an d aet vou in 15 

i:jminutes. 

Us .- 

[3: 

19) IY 

rtness excused. Witness recalled.) 

R WISENBERG: Let the record reflect that the 

1 :I jwitness has reentered the grand jury room. 

[::I Madam Fore 

THE FOREP&SOk: 

rson do we have a quorum? 

Il?! Yes we do. 

1131 MR. WISENBERG: 

III! THE FOREPERSON: 

Are there any - 

There are no unauthorized cersons 

r I 5 1 in the grand u ‘

[iEi MR.%&%BERG: Thank you. 

1171 THE FOREPERSON: Youre ’ still under oath. 

[:9! BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q Oka 

iiziback to Exhibit CA It 

Ms. Davis, Im ’ oing to call 

16 at page 2. T a r. 

our attention 

eres a high rghted 

I z : : portion of this e-mail that I dont ’ think we read. 

This is the e-mail - to bring the rand ury ‘ s ’

iiiiattention back to it, Im ’ so? - is thy 8at taks 

f zi labout Monicas ’ meeting wrt The Bi Creeps ’ best friend this 

fz5;moming. You know, thus is a man w o wears his soul on his 

Page 147 

I: : sleeve. Were ’ in business” and “You come very highly 

r2 1 recommended.” 

Those are just key phrases from that e-mail and it 

I: j continues on - this is from her to you dated November 6 

r s 11997. Theres ’ a portion we forgot to read on the second ’ 

r 6 1 page. Could you read it, please? 

A 

::;I really hop” 

It says, “Its ’ time for me to get out of here. 

13) Because 

that The Creep and I can still have contact. 

know rt sounds so ridiculous, but I cant ’ get him 

(lolout of my heart. I love him a lot. I know its ’ stupid. 

f 11) I want to hug him so bad rtght now I wutd cry.” 

Q Thank you. Now were ’ going to continue on - and 

I ::; I have, unfortunately, mislabeled some of these exhibits in 

114 !terms of the order so youll ’ notice that the numbers ump ‘

t 15 Iaround a little bit, but I m trying to go in chronologica 1 

rlsiorder. 

(171 We left off with an e-mail dated July 3rd of 97, ‘

[ 1:: ; and now were ’ goin to move forward to an e-mail dated July 

(1914th .of 97 ‘ from you ? o a K. Davis. Is that your 

1: I: sister-in-la; Kelly? 

12-, “ Yes. 

MS. WIRTH: 

Izz;CAD-34. This is one that we 

Okay. And this is Grand Jury Exhibit 

ot just toda 

i24! (Grand Jury % xhibit No. 8 AD-34 

f-5: was marked for identification.) 

Page 142 to Page 147 OIC-staff 
ESA 

__ .- ___- 

864 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3/17/98 

Page 151 

XMAX(25) 

Page 148 

Ill BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q 

izjrecognize it? 

Can you look at it and tell us whether you 

[4l A Yes. 

: 2 ; Its ’ short. 

Q Okay. Could you read it for the grand jury? 

i , ‘ ; I love her 

A 

but 

Okay. Don ‘ t ’ quote me, but Monica is loony. 

eez” - 

I91 Q ‘ ’ &ou have to keep our voice u 

A It says, “Dont ’ quo r e me. but flfF omca LS loony. 

I :ii I love her but geez sometimes I cannot believe the things 

[ 12 1 that she $ets herself into. Now she is seeing about a post 

113lwith the government in a fore’ n country, which may be-a ood 

~14 Itemporary solution to some o i9, er tssues. Well ’ see. .Rlgh 9 

[ 151 now she 6 in Madrid for 10 days for some summit. BIII will 

[ 161 be there, other bigwi s of the world.” 

I171 Q And %ill* is Bill Clinton? 

I181 A Yes. 

Q 

I:iibetween Monica and the President. 

Okay. And dii Kel$know about the relationship 

(211 A No she didnt. ’

MS. WIkTH: Okay. Grand Jury Exhibit CAD-33 dated 

[::{Wednesday. July 9th. from you to Monica. 

[241 (Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-33 

I251 was marked for identification.) 

111 (Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-31 

121 was marked for identification.) 

[31 BY MS. WIRTH: 

141 Q Is it one that YOU recoonize? . -> 

[51 A Yes. . ” 

I61 Q And wukl you read the h’ blighted portion? 

I71 “Sometimes to be honest P want to talk to 

[8 Imy mom aAbout your experience but I know you would be 

[glmad. She is exceedingly trustwbrthy and non-judgmental, 

[lojthough.” 

0 And when you. talk about * 

i if imean Mon;asyeexSqence ’ wtih the Press 3 

our experience.” you 

ent? 

[131 

MS. WIRTH: All right. Grand Jury Exhibit CAD-30. 

I::ian e-mail dated Wednesday Ju 

[161 

(Grand Juti &.$.~,'~&,ff!$,wu to Monl=. 

fl71 

Cl81 

[I91 

was marked for identification.) 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q Do you recognize it? 

UOI A Yes. 

i Z ; portions? 

0 And, if so, could you read the highlighted 

A “The President looked a little too 

i::;on his Euro tour post-NATO summit. He was a 

randiose 

# mg ltke 

12518 guy who would sell his soul to be the most successful, 

Page 149 Page 152 

[II BY MS. WIRTH: 

i:lprovided? 

Q Is it an e-mail that you recognize as one that you 

I41 A Oh, yes. 

IZiplease? 

Q And if you could just read the highlighted portion, 

A “I got your late night e-mail right before you 

iii left. I guess the roller waster youre ’ on is on the upswing 

[glright now, eh? I dont ’ mean that sarcastically, but youve ’

rloldescribed it to me that wa 

“I admit I am scar s-c! 

before. 

for you. I wish you could be 

i ::;where he wasnt. ’ But I also want you to be in a good place, 

r13land if thats ’ D.C., well, thats ’ that. 

Q And this roller waster is again a reference to the 

i::;sarne concept that you wrote about earlier, meaning Monicas ’

.--. I 161rOkr Waster ride with resDect to - 

I171 A Emotionally. yes. 

Q 

i:tiwasnt.* ’ thats ’ a reference to the 

And when you sab “I vish upu could be where he 

.--a resident. 

(201 A Yes. 

1211 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

[221 Q Thats ’ dated Wednesday, July 9,1997. 

I231, A Mm-hmm. 

Q And I want to focus back on these words again. 

;::;“I got your late night e-mail from right before you left 

f I. Ifamous. popular, historic American president ever. 

[z]Scary stuff and not too heartenin 

And I write Well ‘ I hope tl%s%#$$a&&~~en~” 

I:iover there with ydu andso-and-so ’

I 51 New York Post anyone? I hope no 9 

uy is not too sketchy. 

, 

[6]yOUr man. No selling out for me.” 

but I would stand by 

171 0 Do you know what that last reference is to? 

[91 A “New York Post anyone?” I think this might 

~91 have to do with Michael Isikoff. maybe, talking to the press. 

Q Did Monica ever discuss with you talking to the 

! :i i press about her relatronship with the President? 

2 A No. I mean, the concept of - not that she woukl 

::3;talk to the President, but the concept of the press being 

114 1 there and you can talk to them if you want to, but she 

[~slwouldnt. ’

1161 Q And what do you mean by “sketchy”? What does tha 

(17 Iword mealto you? 

I131 Sort of weird, troubling, you know. possibly 

[ lgldangerous but - not physically dangerous, but - 

b Okay. And when you say, “No selling out for me.” 

i:yithaVs a reference to what? 

I221 A The press. 

I231 Q To the press. 

(241 A Yes. 

I251 Q Okay. Not selling your story or - 

- 

Page 150 

[I 1 I guess the roller waster youre ’ on is on the upswing right 

I .~. 2 I now. eh?” 

131 A Eh. 

Q Eh? Okay. “I dont ’ mean that sarcastically, but 

i :i youve ’ described it that way to me before.” 

Do you know whether or not - can 

i;iwhether or not that was related to a visit s 

ou 

ii 

remember 

e described to 

[ 8 1 you with the President? 

191 A A visit or the visit? 

r101 Q A oarticular visit. .~~. 

fill A Nd. I dont ’ remember. 

1121 Q Okay. Do you remember her ever telling you 

rl3labout a visit with the President on or about the 4th 

I 14 I of Julv that was verv meaninaful or memorable for her, 

iisjorgo&l? 

A I think there were a few visits that she told me 

:::]about that were meaningful and memorable, but I cant ’

[ 18 1 remember them specifically by that date. 

Q Okay. Do you remember her describing a meeting 

i:iiwith the President in Madnd? 

I211 A As far as she told me, she didnt ’ see him in 

[z?lMadrid. 

MS. WIRTH: Okay. Im ’ showing 

i::iGrand Jury Exhibit CAD-31, dated July 12th o Y 

ou an e-mail marked 

97. ‘ from you 

lzs]to Monica 

Page 153 

Ill A Not talking to them, no. 

[?I MS. WIRTH: Not talking to them. 

(3, BY MR. WISENBERG: . . . 

141 0 

i 2 i 

A 

Were you tellin her not to do that or - 

I dont ’ know. 

oint. 

+I0 selling out for me ” exclamation 

R 

I think I was just sort of saying I wouldnt, ’ ydu 

(71 now. 

MS. WIRTH: Okay. Grand Jury ExhibtzD-z-end 

containing e-mails from - 

and then one from you to hkr 

(Grand Jur Exhibits No. CAD-29-l 

and CAD- 9-2 were marked for 

il4j identification.) 

(151 BY MS. WIRTH: 

I161 Q Can you read hers first. the highlighted portion? 

[ 17 1 First. do you recognize this two-page document? 

1191 A Oh, yes. 

0 

I:09110 you first? 

Okay. Can you read the highlighted portion of hers 

If::T,he Bi 

A Okay. Ill ‘’ write tomorrow and let you know if 

[z3lnlce If 3

Creep remembers my birthday or not. It would be 

e wore my tie today. Oh, well, me and my stupid 

[~rlexpectations. 

[ljl “Did I write to you about the meeting with Marsha? 

, 

OIC-Starr Page 148 to Page 153 
Page 154 

t 1 j I could have sworn I did She offered me a position working 

(2 jfor her doing some interesting things. That IS in the 

f3jinterim until something in communtcations opens u I think 

I 4 t I will take i-t. I must watt until Marsha returns from Faris 

[s]August 1st. I am sure I wrote to you about this.” 

Cl 

I,” 1 materialized? 

Do you know if that job with Marsha ever 

isi A No, it didnt. ’

Q Okay. And this was Monicas ’ last birthday that 

t:i;shes ’ referring to in this e-mail? 

I111 A Yes. 

Q Do you know whether the President remembered that 

i::ibirthday? Did she ever tell you? 

[141 A I cant ’ remember. 

,151 Q Can vou read the portion of your response b-r&s 

i;iibo tell.” - 

1221 MS. WlRTH: 

This is Grand Jury 

i::;July 16th. a little out of order on the date here. This is 

tzsjan earlier one. This is from you to Monica - oh, sorry. 

Page 155 

II L-1 1 

BY MS. 

I:isecond. We did it alread Strike thi 

Grand 

[:!you to Monica dat 

Jg E&bit CAD-Z 

Fnday. August 

161 (Grand Jury Exhibit 

MR. WlSENBERG: 

WIRTH: 

We already did thJa:~~$lready. 

Im ’ sorry, Im ’ so 

at. All ngh T . 

3. this is an e-mail from 

1; 1997. 

No. CAD-26 . 

I71 

I81 

191 

was marked for idei...,,,,,,,,., 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

0 Do vou recoonize it? .-> 

r101 A Yes: - 

[ill Q 

A 

Can you read the hi 

“Im ’ confused as to ill? 

hli hted portion? 

e JPI thong you included. 

i::{Who is Kathleen Wrlley and what does that have to do with 

1141you? 

Q Okay. What is the “UPI thing you included? ’“

i ih $V$at are you telkng Monica there? What are you refemng 

I181 A Well. I just remember 

[I 9 1 sort of news article that was attache 2 

esterday that it was some 

to some e-mail. 

~:~/Willey? 

Q So she e-mailed you something about Kathleen 

I221 A Yeah. 

[231 Q Do ou remember anything about that article? 

A I - Y remember it having to do with something 

i::labout the Paula Jones case, I think. 

Page 156 

[ll Q And did she respond to this, do you know7 

(21 A I dont ’ remember. 

Q Have you seen an e-mail in looking through your 

i:lstack of e-mails that you provided that was a response to 

t 5 1 that? 

I61 A No, I havent ’ seen the response. 

171 MS. WIRTH: Thank you. 

i ti CAD-26. 

Oka This is -ust an e-mail - Grand Jury Exhibit 

dat eJ Auoust 1 h 1997. from vou to Monica. 

,101 (Grand Jury Exhibit No. CAD-26 

was marked for identification.) 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q Do you recognize it? 

A Yes. 

Q Can you ust ‘ read that h’ hlighted portion? 

A Okay. -Lou can tell me %out bad Marsha or work, 

i 17 1 whatnot, Monica” 

Q Here youre ’ just tellin her that she can tell you 

I : i 1 about these thin s referring to Mars 

Y%s if she wants to. 

4 a Scott? 

I201 A 

I211 MS. WIRTH: All right. 

This is an e-mail, Grand Jury Exhibit CAD-32. dated 

I::iSepternber 2 1997 - 

1:4 IVOU to Monica. I 

this is one we received today - from 

have not hiohlighted it because its the 

Page 157 

111 (Grand Jurv Exhibit No. CAD32 .-. 

Iii 

,A, 

was marked for identification.) 

BY MS. WlRTH: 

Q Do vou recoonize it? 

z .I 

151 

161 

I71 

181 

r91 

IlO1 

A I havent ’ seei it et either. 

MS. WIRTH: All ng 3 1. Take a look at it. 

RI 

he witness examined the document.) 

E WITNESS: Okay. 

BY MS. WlRTH: 

Q Okay. Do you recognize it? 

ill1 A Yes.. 

Q Okay. If you could just read beginning wrth the 

I ::i second linz I ‘ cannot say” - 

1141 

1151 

f161 AQ 

Okay. 

- and ending with - 

Okav. “I cannot sav I am surprised that this 

i ;; iwhole situation has<taken its toll on ou. lm’ sure ’ it 

t 18 1 has for a while now. If I may be so ti oM to state my 

t~gtunequivocal opinion,.1 think your situation ‘ ’ is a 

tzotlose-lose situation wtth him. He cannot ever totally be 

~zl~yours, Montca, ever. 

“And as I have said before, you deserve a man mat 

I::iis all yours. all yours. And just because mere 

124 janother man right now does not mean you shou 

t2sjthrough the wnnger with this man. You are worth mu 

Page 158 

t t tthan that. In a man in his position its ’ the same old affair 

12 1 bullshit.” 

131 Q Okav. And thats ’ refenina to Monicas ’

i ( i relationsh- wit;;’ President? y 

I51 x 

[61 MS. WIRTH: All zh” 

Next IS Grand Jury xhrbtt CAD36, an e-mail dated 

Ii; Friday September 5. 1997, from you to Monica, and the bottom 

t 9 jportion is an e-mail from her to you dated September 4th of 

[IO] 97. 

Ill1 

Cl21 

(Grand Juy Exhibit No. CAD-36-l 

and CAD- 6-2 were marked for 

[I31 identification.) 

I141 BY MS. WIRTH: 

/iii 

0 Do you re 

?? 

nize it? And, actual1 its ’ two 

!i 

gg?, Grand Jury Exhibit AD-36-1 and Grand Ye ury Exhibit 

._ .-. 

1181 A 

0 

Yeah, yes. 

Okay. Could you read the highighted portions, 

I:ijfirst, from Fr m;;sa,ge to you and then your response? 

[211 

[221 MR. WIS E NBERG: I think weve ’ - 

[231 MS. WIRTH: Did we do this one? 

4241 MR. WISENBERG: Just for the record - well, weve ’

trsjdone the - 

Page 159 

[II 

t21 

(71 

MS. WlRTH: The bottom part? 

MR. WlSENBERG: Weve ’ done the bottom part. 

BY MS. WlRTH: _ L-1 

L41 Q 

A 

Can we do your res onse then? Thank you. 

1 z! more either. 

Okay. “Personally, P hope he does not call you any 

I think you are correct that he does not have 

t 7 1 the balls to tell you straight how it is, kind of similar to 

tsjthe way he rs as P. 

Im ’ sorry any of this has or will hurt you, 

t : ii but I think you are really better off emotionally and 

t I 1 j rofessionalty 

I? 3 

etting out now. I ho 

im will not ja e you to other men. 

your experience with 

t I 2 1 Knowa”” thought he 

t 13 1 was pretty awesome, and he sure holds a 

osition (understatement 

1’ 

amn successful 

j II 1 

1 

but he is still human and shll 

t I 51 awed like all the rest of hem. 

“Personally. I think the best guys in the world are 

f :;; the low-key kind who care more about watching a movre at home 

t 18 I and taking care of you than of going to expensive sushi bars 

i 19 j and showing showing you off.” 

Q Oka 

I:: i the one where she 

122 tdetail. or telling her that she was stripped stripped o 

r 2 3 1 and not having a job. right? 

A - Yeah 

i?sjbnly copy I have. 

- - 

Page 154 to Page 159 

L- .1 

[151 Q Okay 

OlC-Starr 
BSA Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAXZ? 

Page 160 Page 163 

Ill BY MR. WISENBERG: 

121 Q And initially it says - it talks about a White 

I 3 I House liaison woman. 

(1 Itold by Monica about it? 

A I remember that Linda was somehow involveo :esu 

i:;she had known a woman who had been involved with the 

(4 ~President and that lsikoff was trying to get Linda to talk to 

(51 him about that. And that maybe there was some sort of - 

(6]sorI of gossip about another woman, and that maybe that 

[7]was - 

.~. 

I41 A 

Q 

Saying she - yeah. 

Sa 

iz;that Moniz “liei 2 

ing she had spoken to Marsha recently. and then 

[‘I 

hy.arsha - 

I91 Q lsghat correct? 

[91 A Right. 

(101 BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q And when 

I :: 1 as P.” you mean as Presi lK 

ou say. “kind of similar to the way he is 

ent? 

il3j - 

[141 

%CtObel 

ii7j 

I181 

I191 

1201 

1211 

[221 

1231 

i::ijob inter 

A Yes. 

MS. WIRTH: All right. 

Grand Jury Exhibit CAD-35, an e-mail dated 

.30, 1997. from ou to Monica. 

(GrandYJury Exhibit No. CAD-35 

was marked for identification.) 

BY MS. WtRTH: 

Cl Do you recognize it? 

A Oh, yes. 

Q 

A 

Just read the one line thats ’ highlighted. 

“Tell me about our interview in the meantime.” 

Q Do you know w K at thats ’ a reference to? Is it a 

view? 

At the time Monica was like, There ‘ s ’ no way 

iilanyone knows about me.” But Im ’ not sure if that was - if 

[ 10 1 it was - I have no idea what Michael lsikoff did or didnt ’

[ 111 know, but I know - but it seemed - sounded like to me he 

[ 12 lwas tryin to talk to Linda about some friend - some other 

r13lfriend of !ers. 

I141 Q Of Lindas, ’ correct? 

1151 A Yes. 

Q 

i:Slthe e-mail you read, mere 

And do you connect that in your mind at all wi? 

ou said, Whos Kathleen” - 

llelaboutthe UPI and sort of w ifi 

A 

o IS Kathleen W&y? 

Well Ive ’ been sort of connectin 

i:i!thinas. but I am corinectina that the friend was It 

different 

er. But. 

i;;il m&an. I - 

[221 Q The friend of Linda Tripp? 

[231 

I241 

(251 

A Yeah. 

0 But youre ’ not certain of that. 

A Im ’ not certain. 

Page 161 

111 A Yeah, its ’ a ob ‘ interview, I think. 

I21 Q InNewYo d ? 

I: i that. 

A Oh either that or the U.N. one. something like 

I dont ’ know for ‘ sure ust ‘ looking at this. 

151 MS. WIRTH: And then, lastly there are two e-mail 

iii messages, one, Grand Jury Exhibii C/ \D-97 ._ _ . one _. ._, CAD-38. _. ._ _ _ Both _ 

[ 7 1 of them are messa 

[ 8110th of 97. ‘ one da a 

es from you to Monica, one dated November 

ed November 18th of 97. ‘ and containfng 

I 9,similar comments. 

Its No. CAD-37 

marked for 

1-I 

I101 (Grand Ju Exhibi 

[Ill and CAD-. 7 8 were 

(121 identification.) 

1131 BY MS. WIRTH: 

[141 Q 

A 

You can read just on 

It says, “One more tt 

I :z; pretty good on the telly late 

1171 Q Okay. And 

i 1s j Monica about the Piesic jerlrr 

e highlighted portion. 

iing. The President is looking 

el , qude fit and slim.” 

that s just conveying that message to 43 

[I91 A Yeah. 

Q And thats ’ basically the same thought as contained 

Izy;as Grand Jn”ry Fehsibit CAD-38? 

r)’, ‘

.--1 

[231 

1241 

i251 

--. 

a Oka 

BY MR. XIISENBERG: 

0 All right. Ive ’ got a few questions before we take 

[ 11 a brief break. 

Page 162 

The very first conversation that you talked about 

[:;this morning. where Monica Lewinsky first tokl you that she 

f 4 1 had a relationship with the President, and I belif?ve.this is 

15 1 a conversation where you said she mentioned kissing - 

I61 A Yes. 

I71 Q Do you recall how long after the event she 

[ 3 1 described the conversation was? 

I91 A I seem to remember it being maybe a month or so 

rlolafter. 

r111 Q 

[ 12 I told you. 

All right. And this is obviously based on what she 

iI31 - A Mm-hmm. 

I141 Q And when do you recall this conversation taking 

I 15 1 olace. vour conversation with Monica - 

i16j’ 

[I71 - that was about a month after the event? 

A Right. I remember it bein 

Ii89ithink. I remember it taking place end of B 

about a month after, I 

5 and maybe very 

irolearly96. ’

Q We talked about this a little bit. Tell us, if you 

I$iwill in a nutshell - weve ’ gone over this a little bit. 

[231Tel/ us what you remember about this business in the summer 

[24 Iwith Linda Tnpp. Michael lsikoff as Monica told it to you. 

I 2 5 1 As you sit here today, what do you remember about it - being 

Page 164 

(11 Q All right. Did Monica tell you back durin this 

~21 riod Jul August of 97. ‘ that she was afraid she mg 

r,l!&e tb talzto ’ Isikoff? 

3 t 

(41 A Not that she might have to - not to Isikoff. 

About what Linda Tripps ’ statements had been 

T~PP 

nbe 

1211 A Right. 

0 Did Monica ever say, not onl 

i::lbut later in the year that somebody wanted 

[ 24 1 Linda Tripp about t&is friend? 

K 

in July or August 

er to talk to 

1251 A To be honest, that does sound familiar, but I cant ’

Page 165 

I 11 remember specifics. 

I21 Q 

A 

All right. Nothing more specific than that? 

[31 I don t think so. 

Q 

i :; her to talk to Linda 

All riqht. You dont ’ remember who might have asked 

npp about that? 

isi 

171 

A Un-uh.. 

Q Thats ’ a no? 

i?v: “,z;e you heard about the talking points hat ‘

1 fi 1 have been mentioned in the -media? 

- 

I111 A 

Q 

Ive ’ heard about them. yes. 

That Monica Lewinsky allegedly 

I :: i and that relate to what Linda Tripp shouM say a % 

ave to Linda Tripp 

out Kathleen 

,141Willey? 

il5i - A Yes. 

I161 Q What do you know about those other than what youv ’

I I 7 1 read in the media? iiei 

Q Does an hlng that youve ’ read in the media suneho 

I:zlrnake any A connections Nothing? or $0~ wBh regard to that, other than 

I 71 Iwhat vou ve testified about. a--. ,~ 

A I havent ’ read - I just kntnv the talking points 

:;:;I dont ’ know if I can read them or if theyre ’ out there. 

1241 0 All right. You just know that there is such a 

,:slthlng called talking pomts. 

OIC-Starr Page 160 to Page 165 
867 

Catherine Alldav Davis, 3117198 ~_.~~_. -- -- - 

Page 166 Page 169 

[:. A Yes. 

Q 

\ i ’ saying anythin 

But you dont ’ remember - you dont ’ remember Monica 

i4: 

remotely related to talking points, do you? 

A %o. 

[5: Q Okay. Did Monica ever relate to you that the 

i 6. relationship with the President was not fulfilling enough, 

~7. romantic enou h anything along those Iwes? 

I;; A %es. 

Q 

A 

Okay. Elaborate for us, if you will. 

[l:: She wanted to see him more often and for longer 

[ 1: : periods of time. 

cl:: 0 How about away from the White House? 

113: A Yes, I think she wished that, but I dont ’ think she 

L 14 : Mought that was ever possible. 

Q Did she ever say anything to you about maybe when 

i :z i his presidency was over having a longer term relationship 

t 17 :with the Presrdent? 

[IE: A Yes. 

1191 Q Tell us about that. 

[ZC: A I think that she - the way she sort of said it to 

~2: :me, that she was aware that it was a fantasy on her art but 

t 22 : she wanted to be able to see him more and more ful R affer he 

I;:; was no lorr presrdent. 

Drd she ever express the hope that the President 

t2s: might divorce the First Lady after the presidency was over? 

Page 167 Page 170 

11: A Yes. 

c:: 0 Did she ever tell you that she discussed either of 

[ 2 -these two things,. the divorce or just her wanting to spend 

[ 4 -more time with him after the presiden r, did she tell you 

I 5 -that she discussed either of these two hmgs with Vernon 

is.Jordan? 

17’ A With Vernon Jordan? 

,E: Q Uh-huh. 

[ll Q Okay. Did she ever connect to 

12 1 her statements to you, connect her stgnrng oft K 

ou in any way, in 

at statement 

[ 3 1 with her gFrngN+oJob? 

[41 

0 Did she ever say to you that she told anybody 

I61 ’ at the White House that - something to the effect of 

t 7 1-11 Idont ’ get a ob ‘

A ho. 

Im ’ not signing the statement”? 

181 

Q Did she ever indicate to you that she talked to 

r :iiVernon Jordan in any way about her relationship with the 

(1 I 1 President? 

I121 A Yes. 

1131 Q Tell us about that. 

A I actually think I remember asking hers 

[::iif she had told him about the physical relationshl 

[ ls]think that she - I remember her telling me that s 

t I 7 1 but that it seemed - the impression I ot from her, that 

[ lslsimilar to with Betty, that it was sort o 9. like they knew, 

[I 9 1 that it was implicit, like the way things were sort of talked 

rzolabout it, but it seemed like she was telkng rne.rt was sort 

[21jof in a,rounQdabouua;ag like nothing was specrfically sad, 

[zzlespeclally about the p ’ s~cal part. 

nd as best as you can recall, can you 

~~:~recall what she actually told you in this regard? What her 

12 5 lwords were to you about this topic? 

.~. 

IG: A No. 

e. MR. WISENBERG: Okay. Im ’ goin to ask you to step 

I: : ‘ outside ‘ for a few moments and then well ’ probab 9 y just have 

ii;iiO call you in one last time. 

113: THE WITNESS: Okay. 

t14: ltness excused. Wtiness recalled.) 

r. R WlSENBERG: Let the record reflect that the 

I :z !witness has reentered the grand jury room. 

II-: Madam Fore rson do we have a quOrtJm? 

(15: THE FOREP&Ok: Yes we do. 

[I4 MR. WlSENBERG: Any unauthorized people present? 

12z- THE FOREPERSON: No, sir. There are no 

i2: : unauthorized people. 

I::: Ms. Davis oure ’ still under oath. 

[3: ‘ THE WlTN&S: Yes. 

124. BY MR. WISENBERG: 

125: Q We have a final series of questions that the grand 

Page 168 

[ :. jurors would like answered, some of which that we would like 

1: i answered. The first one is when was the 7 did, Monica ever 

t 2: tell you that the relationship, her relatronshlp with the 

t 4 : President had ended? 

[5: A Yes. 

ic: Q Oka Tell us about that. 

[“ A She II elieved it was over after she had had a 

: 5 -conversation with him telling her that they shouldnt ’ see 

i j feach other any more. 

cl:: Q All right. And do you recall whenthat was? 

[ 1: :When the conversabon took place between Monica and the 

i 1:: President. 

,I _I- A W+=II , I . ramemher .- ..,-...-. that some 

; if’ there wassomdti& ’ like that i and then may g 

oint. maybe in 

:.-: *I1 -$ht. 

e again In 97. ‘

n Do you know if the one in 96 ‘ was 

Ii-: A, 

& the White House? 

I thin tt was a kttle brt after that. 

1x3. Okav Rllt --. ha+ed ---. on what she told you, she 

i i g -continued to seeh% ’ after the 96 ‘ conversation? i:z- A Mm-hmm. 

_) Q All right. Do you remember when in 97 ‘ he said 

isi i this to her? I dont ’ know if you said this already. This 

[I 2. was summer? 

,22 A I think so. I think it was after I was already in 

i:r-Japan. 

[II Q But did she indicate to you that there were still 

[ 2 1 visits after that? 

I31 A Yes 

141 Q And did she indicate that the relationship was 

[slstill ongoin 

161 2 

? 

When? 

c-J1 Q After these visits resumed, after the summer of 

.-, IR197. ’

I91 A Yes. 

Q When Monica was describing the 

I :y;relationship with the President, did she ever men r 

hysical 

ron 

t 12 lan 

rl3,ac?iiitv? 

objects that were used as an aid to that physical 

.--. ~ 

1141 A Yes. 

I151 0 All right. Tell us about that. 

[I61 A She mentioned the use of a cigar. 

i:iithe cigar? ’

Q All right. And what did she say was done with 

[I91 A She said that he used it and put it inside of her. 

Q And did she ever say to 

i:!lthe conversations in late December an cl7 

ou -weve ’ mentioned 

or January. We were 

( zz 1 talking before lunch about the statement she was goin to 

122lsign with hopes of maybe not havrnr to do anything fir 4 her in 

[24 jthe JonesFseYeDSp you recall that. 

1251 

Page 171 

I11 A Okay. Well, the only thing I can remember 

12 1 specifically is that I asked her if she.actualty told her 

t3lthat she was having a 

.8 

hysical relabonshrp wrth the 

t 4 1 President and she sai no. 

151 Q 

A 

Okay. What did she tell ou that she had told him? 

I dont ’ know that she to k+ him anything. Sort of 

I:; the impression I got was that it was like he kind of already 

js 1 knew somethin That was the impression I 

Q 

[ :zi that concluAsion 

8ut there isnt ’ anything spe 2 

ot. 

IC you can tie to 

ou reached? Anything specific? 

JO,. L--l 

(121 Q And, again, you cant ’ recall Vernon Jordan - her 

[ 13 1 talking to you about Vernon Jordan in connectron wrth her 

114 lstatementir ge$Fg a lawyer or the Jones case? 

,191 

L--I 

1151 ’ a Just the job? 

(171 A Yes. 

Q You mentioned before lunch in response to a grand 

i:89jjurors ’ question something to this effect, that - and please 

[2o]correct me if I get it wrong - that Monica did not tell you 

(2 I Iwhen she was describin 

[ 2: 1 with the President that s 1 

to you - the late December meeting 

e was describing to you in the 

[2x] January 3rd phone call, she did not tell you that the 

[ 2 4 1 President told her to lie. Is that what you recall the 

t 2 5 1 testimony was before lunch? 

Pap 166 to Page 171 OIC-Stan 
Catherine Allday Davis, 3~7198 

---__ 

Page 172 Page 175 

Cl1 A Right. You mean this past December and January? 

I?31 

Q Right. 

A No. She never told me that he told her to tie 

I:isug 

Q Oka Did she tell you that anybody told 0: 

9 

ested around t t;. LS time period, told her or suggested w 

[s]her hat she lie? 

171 A Not that I can remember. 

181 Q Okay. You seemed to take,a little Ion 

-I! 

er in 

[glanswering that question. Were you just trymg to thin ati2 

[ 101 the known universe or is there - 

A Yes. Im ’ just sort of-just thinking about a! ’

i ::; the different peo le that she spoke to. 

Q 8kay. Did she tell 

i::lthis meetinp. did she tell 

ou that - in describing 

t 151 President J m going to tel 7 

ou that 4 told the 

everything about our 

;;;;relatlonshx? 

i:iidescribin 

Q 

In the meeting with the President in December? 

Right. In other words, did Monica when she was 

the meeting say something to the effect of “I 

[zoltold the ? [e:s$ent Im ’ going to tell the truth about our 

;;;;relattonshX . 

I dont ’ remember that. 

Q Did the President tell her, again, according to 

i::;what she told you, Xlonica. I want you to tell the truth in 

rzslyour statement? 

L:: Q 

1:: A 

Who is Mike Gudgell? 

Hes ’ from ABC News. 

13; MR. WISENBERG: Could you just go ahead and 

[ 4 ithe entire - Id ’ like you to read the entire e-mail, 

( 5: rncluding the enclosed messa e from our dad. 

THE WITNESS: 8kay. “&ear Cat: This morning 

[ ;]air courier, I got a letter from Mike G. I dont ’ know how to 

[ 8 ] send it to you ftherwise. so Im ’ just going to have to copy 

19ytt. l+er$$pes. . 

r Allday’ I think you and Catherine deserve to 

[:yiknow why we occasionally but persistent1 attempt to contact 

1121vou in Hawaii. The character and credibi r ity of Monica 

i 13 i Lewinsky are key issues in both the controtiersy at the White 

I 14. House and the oublics ’ understandina of the events. 

s- .,- ----- 

_.- ..- r-~ 

“So far, reporting has been rather one-dimensional. 

I$il believe stron$y that our viewers and the public deserve 

[ 17 1 better. Monica s friends here have been reluctant to talk. 

118 1 Each has a reason. I suspect the media pressure has 

[ 19 1 intimidated almost everyone. 

We have had discussions with Monicas ’ attorney. 

$?iBill Ginsburg. He has, on several occasions, encouraged 

(22;fnends to come forward. He is reluctant to call on our 

rz3lbehatf. There are ethical considerations for both ABC and 

[24!Mr. Ginsburg. All I can do is encourage Catherine to call 

ps1t-h. 

read 

via 

Page 173 

Ill A No. 

Q You said that you didnt ’ want her to becurne - 

I:;after she told you about the meetin with the President and 

[ 4 1 that both she and the President ha 8 sad sopething to the 

isleffect of there isnt ’ any evidence, that you dldn! ’ want her 

[ 6 1 to become another Susan McDougal or something to that effect. 

[ 7 1 Do you reymber that? 

181 Im ’ not sure I said that to her. 

[91 0 But you thought it to yourself? 

[lOI A Yes. 

Q Okay. What was that connection? What did that 

I::irnean? What did you mean to yourself when you were saying 

[13lthat? 

A I meant that I didnt ’ want her to - I mean, first 

I:::of all when I said that, I dont ’ know enough about what 

t 161 Susan McDou 

117 lcame into my i? 

al. that whole deal is, just sort of that idea 

ead. I dont ’ know what shes ’ doing. But just 

(lslwith Monica, my thought was I didnt ’ want her to lie to 

[ 19lprotect the President. 

0 Okay. You knew she had had a relationship based on 

t:yiwhat she t;ld you. 

[221 I believe her, yes. 

[231 0 You didnt ’ think that she would sign a st+ernent 

[ 24 1 saying that she had a relationship with him. Is that a fair 

rzslstatement, based upon - 

Page 176 

mis is a critical time for Monica. Her immunity 

15 i ag-nt is under some question. Her future depends on her 

(3 1 credibility. I understand that Monica has shared some 

[ 4 1 information with Catherine that may support her cause. 

Our ‘ responsibility is to the pubkc. We want to 

izireport in a full and responsible manner. To do this right, I 

[7 i need Catherines ’ help. I understand if she is reluctant to 

[ 8: be drawn into this matter. I can assure her and you that if 

[g]Catherine agrees to talk with us we will protect her 

rlojidentii. She can come forward with good conscience and 

[I I Iwithout fear of consequences. 

In ‘ all cases such as this, trust is always a major 

I::; consideration. Its ’ difficult to establish that trust over 

114 ; such a long distance. Let me assure you and her that my 

jls]entire career is based on personal inte rity. 

“I am anxious to discuss this fu ri?l er. I am 

~:~$illing to meet with her at any time and any place. If 

[lE ICatherine has an 

I I q I I have been relu d 

questions, please have her contact me. 

ant to use e-mail since I am not sure if .a 

.--. - ~~~ ~~ 

[ 2 0 ; your system is secure. 

Please have Catherine call me collect at 

~~:~310-557-5261. Thank you for your time and consideration. 

[ 23 i I trust ou will keep this correspondence Confidential. 

[24 IMike &dgell.” 

1251 Well, there you are. Rich did say on Friday 

Page 174 

111 A 

Q 

That% what I thought. Yes. 

That she would not si n a statement saying I ‘ had 

$;a physical relationshi 

P 

with the Pres i% ent”? 

A What believed is that she wouldnt ’ sign a 

i:]statement that said she had a 

Q 

hysical relationship. 

Okay. And tha P was based upon, ,amon other 

Isi things, heFisc;;;on in the late December meetmg w &you? 

[91 

(4, 

1 i0 i recently. 

MR. WISENBERG: There is an e-mail that we just got . - 

i :: i 40. 

MS. WIRTH: This is Grand Jury Exhibit CAD39 and 

Its ’ two pages. 

1131 

I141 

,“n6”~~J~o~~~~~aN~~~~~-39 ‘

I151 identification.) 

L161 BY MS. WlRTH: 

(171 Q Do you recognize them? 

[lOI A Yes. 

Q 

1:ziFebruary 1:. 

Oka 

x 

These are e-mails, the first one is dated 

om Chris Allday. Is that your dad? 

[211 

1;::. 

Q To 

i;:iguess. retype a tr 

ou. And what he does there is basically. I 

le 

[z 4 1 as Mike GKdgell? 

er that he got from a Mike G.. identifti 

!251 Yes. 

Page 177 

I I Ievening.” this is from my father, “that sqme reporters are 

rz!very careful to keep their sources’ ident secret. If the 

[3$iint. ’ they wouldn t have any, so I don,t 3 now. Would x 

[ 4 1 really help Monica,? And I h:pe that this semi-non-functional 

;;y=wu@r fgg.l~gpgERGy 

171 0 All right. And whats ’ the date on that? 

(8; A Februa 10th. 

19: 0 And tha 7 s Exhibit No. - 

[IO! A 39. 

Q And then is the next exhibit number a completely 

i::;different document? 

1131 A Its ’ 40. 

Q Im ’ glad of that, but is it a continuation of the 

I:iie-rnail or another one? 

[161 A No, its ’ another one from my father. 

lli ’ Q Okay. Go ahead. 

A 

i :ii blank e-mail. 

It says, “Dear Cat: I think that I just sent you a 

Im ’ getting used to the new setup on my 

I2olmachine. It is not running right yet. The new software 

[ 2 11 needs more memo 

(2: ! Sorry. “Hopefully, 7 I 

that my machine has.” Very interesting. 

I get a new disc soon. Anyway, It 

12 3 1 looks as if your last note written at noon Thursday your time 

[24 :took 20 hours to reach me. Maybe its ’ this wacko system. I 

t 25: hope its ’ not you-know-who.” I was sort of joking about them 

OIC-Starr Page 172 to Page 177 
869 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XyIxrw 

--- ~--- -.-_ _. 

Page 178 Page 181 

; : ;~~A” Eilt%t;gFEi. 

131 

;&ought 

Q Did she ever mention an occasion where she 

- did she ever say they had intercoursa. sexual 

I 6 I intercourse? .-. 

171 A She told me thay had never had sexual interwursc 

Q Dii she mention an ocrzision when she thought they 

~~~cama vevAtiyz.that but R dtdnt ’ happen? 

I101 

Ill1 Q 

A 

What can you tell us about that? 

I think just that, 8XCZ?Pthat maybe dothes were 

i::;removed than usual. 

[141 Q Do you have any idta when that was? 

A When? No. 

MR WlSENBERG: Okay. 

Page 179 

:::have appa~~~~tten your name off of a W. 

t::: A Mm-hmm. 

*,-. ii-. Q 

t 13 : association? 

Do you think they got your name from some alumni 

iL4: A Yes. Im ’ almost positive that they got it from the 

! : 5: Lewis & Clark alumni a 

F? 

e where I had actually put my e-marl 

: : c : address on it like last al 

Q Okay. And this business about the cigar, you spoke 

f ! i i with us about that yesterday, did you not? 

I,?: ’ A Yes. 

125: MR. WISENBERG: You had some questions? 

,7.. 

.--. MR. BINHAK: Yes, I do. 

,--- L--_ BY MR. BINHAK: 

Q You had said before in response to one of the 

i%;questions that there were several memorabk occasions that 

1 s s : Monica described to you between her&f and the President. 

: : :Other than ones that youve ’ described earlier today, an? 

Page 180 

: 2 : there an 

;:I you cou I3 

other memorable occasion,s. as youve ’ put It. that 

describe to the grand jury 

A Memorable for ma? 

IC. 

.-_ Q 

A 

Well, memorable from her. that she had - 

ii‘ Well. I dont ’ know if she desc&ed them as 

ii i memorable. but I remember them. 

13: Q Okay. Other than the ones - if there are any 

: 9: additional ones that you haven1 told ths grand jury. can you 

; L; : relate those? 

,,. A Okay. I remember one occasion when she w3nt to see 

i if him ‘ and the only physical contact they had was just hugging 

j I 2 : and they had a very long personal conversation that meant a 

: I 4. kt to her in terms of formIng a relationship that wasnt ’

; : 9 i just sexual. And I was sort of surprised. 

I:i’ Q 

i 1 - : relations? 

Was that before they had engaged in sexual 

I:*’ A No. it was actuallv after. That nothing sexual 

_-- 1 I ;:hapbened that da+. . . 

i2ZI 0 

A 

Dd you remember the timeframe on that? 

,_. No Im ’ iuat remembennn oenerallv now. Let% 

Page 182 

111 A JUROR: I have one. 

In any of the conversations or e-mails that you 

~~~sharedwithMonica inan ofthemdidMonicashanwith 

t4janycnnversation&ahadywiththePreskIentwherahet&r 

tsjthathewasinlovewithherorlovbdhe7! 

THE WITNESS: I know he never told her he was in 

I~llovewithher.~IkMmthatatsomemomenthedaexpnss 

f 8 pmme sort of deep emotion for her. I cant remember 

~9jspecifically if he said he loved her. but I know he never 

jlojsatd ha was in lave with her. 

1111 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

I121 Q Do you ever remember h49r telling you about a 

j 13 1 conversation she had with the President either in person or 

(1 I lover the phone where he elkd at her? 

I151 A Oh yes. les. I do. 

[161 Q 

A 

hat do you remember about that? 

Right That might have happened more than ona. 

I :, ‘ imaybe. Yes. It was some occasion where he felt she was 

j 19 j trying too hard to see him and he didnt ’ have the time fpr 

j 20 t her and he was getting upset at her for getbng upset mth 

jzlthim. 

I:: i where the 

0 Oka Did she ever tell you about a conversation 

Presiden r sad . something like lf ‘ I had known yw 

124 jwera going to be like this, I never would have gotten 

t 2 5 1 together wrth you? ’

A 

Page 183 

No. I dont ’ remember that. 

BY MR. BINHAK: 

.-, iii DidMonicaav er *. rlienmc -.--- with --.-.. w-a,, ,-- wtwthrr __..-...-. Rpth~ had ---, .-- 

.-. .- “k *naa ‘..!w,e “!.“~ws -***a rrr( WIY. 

but actually In bnngmg her into the 

RW? 

isi 

I91 

I101 

Cl11 

[I21 

Cl31 

[141 

I151 

(161 

[l’l ,I(11 

0 Yes. 

A The side office? 

0 Or into the side 

A You mean like b 

c&e. 

0 As in like ushen 

A 

Q 

Oh, all right. I df 

Or. on the other . . . . . . w....s 

Aa tti%%:%:~E:~ 

t Well, I dont ’ know about tha Did Mania eve* mm *ha rnntl 

gw.gf into the - 

km& hhnning her but afterwards 

3 

jr being in tha study? 

; ;i;Wrlley di&&&s.~ 

j23jTripp might be a thr 

r211she knew? 

,..,&t of the Kathleen 

did she ever mention to you that Linda 

eat to the President because of anything 

Page 178 to Page 183 

.~~. 

I221 

t 

I dont ’ remember that. No. 

Did Monica ever discuss with you the fact that 

I::iLinda Tripp might be a threat to Monica based on what she 

[2jlknew? 

OlC-stan 
 

870 

Catherine Allday Davis, 3117198 XMAX(31) 

Page 184 

A I dont ’ think she ever thought thought that she would 

if : be a threat, threat, no. I think - I think occasionally occasionally she 

: 3! got a little upset at Linda, but I dont ’ think it was 

: 4 : ever that she was thinking thinking she was a threat to exposing exposing 

: 5 1 anything. 

i 1 BY MR. WISENBERG: :-; 0 Did she sa 

A 

why she got upset at Linda? 

Well. I thin I? It goes back to this idea that she 

: >!didnt ’ want anyone to judge her. 

. -1 Q Did Monica ever say anything about Betty hiding in 

I y j a particular location during the times that Monica was in 

I: :wrth the President? 

:3: A Betty hiding? 

:41 Q Betty Cume. 

15. 

1E: 

A 

Q 

Hiding? Herself? Or Monk+ hiding? 

[:7!for instance. 

No, no. Betty Currie hiding In a room close by, 

[L] ’ A I dont ’ know. 

::y: Q Nothing like that? 

[25! A No. 

:-- 1 Q And, again, Monica told you she was alone with the 

i-< f President on the occasions that she was with him? 

I231 A Thats ’ what she totd me. 

Q Im ’ certain we asked you about this, did Monica 

iI:iever discuss with you getting rid of any gifts the President 

:: 1 had given her? 

Page 185 

- “I .-A She never discussed that with me. 

:jj MR. WISENBERG: Oka . Let me show you GAD-41. 

:4: (Grand Jury Exhibit I4 o. CAD-41 was 

15: marked for identification.) 

:ti BY MR. WISENBERG: 

.i’ Q Does this appear to be a cop of the immunity 

:z iagreement that you and your attorney sign err , as well as 

.3 1 myself. yesterday? 

:.:; 

irslyou. 

:I?] I-: ‘

.--, 

.-. . 

.--_ .__l .--4 

::31 

:24; 

:zsithe ( 

. A Yes. 

2 elf thats ’ your signature on it? 

MR. ‘ WZENBERG: All ri ht 

(Grand Jury Exhibit i 

Let me show you CAD 

o. CAD-42 was 

marked for identification.) 

BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q Is this a copy of the proffer a 

your ittorn;:; Mr. Bensfield, and myse P 

reement signed by 

yesterday. 

ik. ‘ ~~$ENBERG: 

Are there an 

Yes, ma 4 am. ’

other qur!%%s of the witness? 

A JUROR: Just a quick follow-up. 

Did Monica ever men Ion herself hrding in or around 

Ival Office when she was waiting to see the President? 

-42. 

Page 186 Page 189 

::I THE WITNESS: Yes. I think we talked about this 

12 jyesterda I remember some sort of - I dont ’ know if she 

: 3 1 called it t 1. IS or if I called it this, a kind of a close call 

: 4 Iwhile she was in the side study and someone was in the Oval 

: S!Office. 

Ii] BY MR. BINHAK: 

.T, 0 Did she ever describe to you an instance where 

; 5 ; she was with the President and they were engagin in sexual 

: 3]activity and she thought that the were interrupted 

: : 3 ; someone else or that she thoug K t that someone mig %x t have come 

:::lby? 

em-,, A I dont ’ know if they were enga ing in sexual 

i i; j activity, but I think something happened like t 3, at when they 

; : 4 I were both in the small study. 

: I;! actually en aged in an 

k’ 

Im ’ just not sure if they were 

bin sexual at that time. 

Iii] dR. WISEN ER8: 

.“i A JUROR: 

A juror had a question. 

i.a:steward to ou? 

Did Monica ever mention anything about a 

::3! -r HE WITNESS No. Not that I remember. .-^/ 

,--_ BY MR. WlSENBERG: 

.-. Q Did Monica ever say that she asked the President 

i?iabout what if somebody walks in on us or anything like that? 

:13! A Oh, I think so. Yes. 

:I;’ Q What if someone were to find out or what if 

: I i 1 somebody walks in? What do you remember about that? 

Ill 

I21 

A No. 

MR. WlSENBERG: -. .- ---------. Okay. May the witness be excused 

1 Ht FOREPERSON: Yes. she mav 

MR. VvlSENBER4 ..-a .r --.-.C.-.r-m 

I nt WKWtKdON: 

quorum of the Grand 

19 1 concluded.) 

I101 . ...* 

,. . . ill, 

[I21 

(131 

I141 

1151 

L161 

I171 

I161 

I191 

I201 

1211 

1221 

[231 

I241 

[?5i 

Page 187 

ill A I mink - I dont ’ know. The impression I got from 

~2 1 her was that he had reassured her that that wouldnt ’ ha 

Q Dd she ever say the President said an ypp”“. 

i:i to this effect “If Ps just two people involved and those 

hing to her 

[ s]two people den b. no one can ever find it out? Do you 

[Gjever recall an rng alon those lines? 

11 ’ A 4soundsgamiliar. 

131 Q Do you remember when she woutd have told that to 

r91you? 

A It wouldnt ’ be recently. It would be maybe earlier 

f :yi last year some time. Something like that. 

Ii21 Q 

r13i 

Early in 97? ‘

A lthirik so. 

t141 MR. WISENBERG: Okay. 

I151 Seein as there are no more questions - 

1161 A JUF?OR: I have one. 

II71 MR. WISENBERG: Qkak. 

A JUROR: The relations ip that she had with Betty 

~:“slCurrie, ’ how would you characterize that? Was there anything 

rzojelse to their relahonshig besides Betty Currie gettin her 

[ 2 11 in to see the President. Was there anything else? %dshe # 

122 lever mention a relationshrp to you? 

THE WITNESS: I think - I know she told me a 

I::icouple of thin s about Bettys ’ life very small things. 

I251 A JbROR: So most bf the things she talked about 

j 11 Betty Currie was ettin 

Page 188 

in to see the President? 

THE &NE&: 

I:; things related to that. 

Yes. And also talking to her about 

I41 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

0 AJso. do you remember anything about pizza? Did 

ii76iMonica ever tell you anything about delivering pizza to the 

118 I President? 

I191 A That she delivered pizza? 

1201 

A 

I:: idont ’ know why mat sounds familiar. 

Q Right. Or broughtpT;n;. 

Hmm. That sort o nn s a hell, but I cant ’ - I 

1231 Q Can you connect that in an 

124 imeeting with the President, the first time s x 

way with her first 

e ever kind of 

~251 had a meaningful meeting with the President? 

OIC-Starr Page 184 to Page 189 
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877 

CA Davis 

From: 

Sent: 

CA Davis’ 

Tuesday, June IO, 1997 857 AM 

To: Lewinsky, ‘ Monica, , OSD/PA 

Subject: RE: update 

WOW, you go girl. Im ’ impressed- way to put your mind to something, act on it and, hopefully, be rewarded. I hope 

you get back into the WH and out of the black hole of the P. Sounds like the woman was cool? Or was she wierd 

on the phone? A spa? I want to go to a spa! Actually, Chris and I are being taken to a hot springs resort in a 

week and a half. Hot spring resorts are very popular in Japan and they are a lot like spas, I think, abd set in really 

beautiful country-side places. I look forward to that myself. Are you going to your spa alone? Is it the same one 

From: 

Sent: 

To: 

Subject: 

Lewinsky. Monica. , OSD/P 

Monday. June 09.1997 35 

CA Da& 

update 

UPDATE...so Betty called to let me know that she got my package at 11:30. 

At 3:30 marsha (the woman whom i called last week whos ’ assistnat said she 

didnt ’ know me) called to say Ohh ‘ she had been out for the past 2and a hatf 

weeks from surgery and shes ’ sorry she didnt ’ return my call sooner. When 

can you come see me so we can get you out of this little situation? So we 

set up a date for next week and then i said ,“I was just concerned because 

your assistant didnt ’ know who 1 was.” She said that of course she knew who 

I was. Her asistant must have looked my name up in the rolodex and it 

wasnt ’ there so she didnt ’ know who i was. YEAH, right! Well, I guess he 

got my note. thats ’ all for now. love m 

Page 1 

I 
878 

Schlunz, Ryan 

From: 

Sent: 

To: 

Subject: whoa! 

&kt quote me but Monica is loony! I love her but geeeeeuz...sometimes I cannot even belive the things she 

gets herself into. Now, she is seeing about a post with the government in a foreign country- which may be a good, 

temporary, solution to some of her issues ‘ . ’ Well ’ see. Right now she is in Madrid for 10 days for some summit- Bill 

will be there and other bigwigs of the world. 

id& you man, Cat 

Page 1 
879 

CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS 

GJ EXHIBIT 6 

REDACTED IN ITS ENTIRETY 
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CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS 

GJ EXHIBIT 7 

REDACTED IN ITS ENTIRETY 
March 16, 1998 

James Bensfield, Esq. 

Miller & Chevalier 

655 15th Street, Northwest 

Washington, D.C. 20005 

Dear Mr. Bensfield: 

It is our understanding that your client, CATHERINE ALLDAY 

DAVIS, is willing to cooperate with the United States of America, 

by and through the Office of the Independent Counsel ("OIC") in 

its efforts to enforce federal law. By this letter, the parties 

hereto have reached an understanding with respect to CATHERINE 

ALLDAY DAVIS's cooperation in connection with an investigation 

relating to all matters relating directly or indirectly to the 

question of whether Monica Lewinsky or others suborned perjury, 

obstructed justice, intimidated witnesses, or otherwise violated 

federal law other than a Class B or C misdemeanor or infraction 

in dealing with witnesses, potential witnesses, attorneys, or 

others concerning the civil case -es v. Clinton. 

The specific terms of this agreement are as follows: 

1. The United States of America agrees that no statement 

made or information provided pursuant to this agreement may be 

used, directly or indirectly, against CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS in 

any criminal case, excepting use as impeachment or rebuttal 

evidence should CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS subsequently testify 

contrary to the information she provides. The government will 

remain free to discharge its duty to the court by informing the 

court of any information CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS provides. The 

government also agrees not to prosecute CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS 

unless CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS engages in any material breach of 

this agreement as provided by paragraph 6. 

In return, 

proviie mplete 

CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS agrees that she will 

and truthful information to law enforcement 

officials regarding: all matters relating directly or indirectly 

to the question of whether Monica Lewinsky or others suborned 

perjury, obstructed justice, intimidated witnesses, or otherwise 

violated federal law other than a Class B or C misdemeanor or 

infraction in dealing with witnesses, potential witnesses, 

attorneys, or others concerning the civil case Jones v. Cl-- 

any criminal conduct by herself, including but not limited to &e 

destruction of any evidence; and everything she knows or has 
882 

Jaxes Bensfield, Esq. 

March 16, 1998 

L D--e cj 2 

reason to believe about the criminal conduct of others. 

=THERINE ALLDAY DAVIS also agrees to produce all documents and 

physical evidence of any kind in her possession or under her 

control which relate to the information she provides. 

3. CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS agrees to provide mlete and 

t, -+-. testimony to any grand jury, trial jury, judge, or 

magistrate in any proceeding in which she may be called to 

testify. 

4. You and CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS further acknowledge and 

agree that the government's compliance with this agreement is 

entirely conditioned upon CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS's complete 

compliance with the requirements set forth in paragraphs 2 and 3. 

Should CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS knowingly make any materially f.alse 

statement or omission in providing information or testimony under 

this agreement, the government will be entitled to use her 

statements and any evidence she provides, directly or indirectly, 

to institute and support a prosecution for any crime against her, 

including a prosecution for giving false statements and perjury. 

Further, CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS agrees to waive and not to assert 

as a defense to any criminal charge that may be brought against 

her for actions relating to her involvement with Monica Lewinsky 

and the criminal investigation of Monica Lewinsky and others by 

the OIC, the claim that the charge was not brought within the 

five-year statute of limitations set forth in Title 18, United 

States Code, Section 3282, provided that such charge is brought 

within thirty (30) days after the conclusion of all judicial 

proceedings, including appeals and retrials, in which CATHERINE 

ALLDAY DAVIS has provided testimony under this agreement. 

5. CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS understands that the crimes of 

giving false statements and of perjury are felonies, each 

instance of which is punishable by up to five years in prison and 

a $250,000 fine. 

6. Any material breach of this agreement by CATHERINE 

ALLDAY DAVIS will void the agreement in its entirety and will 

release the government from any obligation under this agreement. 

No other commitments, promises, or representations have been 

made to you or CATHERINE ALLDAY DAVIS beyond the terms of this 

agreement. 
883 . 

James Bensfield, Esq. 

March 16, 1998 

Page 3 

Please sign and date this letter, 

DAVIS do so as well. 

and have CATHERINE ALLDAY 

The original should be returned to us. 

Solomon L. Wis 

Deputy Independent Counsel 

Office of the Independent 

Counsel 

AGREED: 
884 

Offke of the Independent Counsel 

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, 3: W. 

Suite 49~North m 

The United States of America, by and through the Office of 

the Independent Counsel ("OICW), represented by its undersigned 

attorney, and Catherine Allday DAVIS enter into this proffer 

agreement with respect to a proffer to be made by Ms. DAVIS to 

agents and attorneys of the United States. 

1. Ms. DAVIS will answer honestly, truthfully and 

completely all questions posed to her by agents and attorneys of 

the United States concerning her knowledge about matters that are 

the subject of the instant criminal investigation. 

2. By discussing these matters and by accepting Ms. DAVIS' 

proffer, the United States does not intend in any way to agree 

to, or represent that it will, confer immunity upon Ms. DAVIS for 

any possible federal criminal acts committed by her, nor has the 

United States made any representation or agreement about the 

disposition of any federal criminal charges which might be filed 

against her. 

3. Should any prosecution be brought against Ms. DAVIS by 

the United States, the United States will not offer in evidence 

in its case in chief against Ms. DAVIS any statements made by Ms. 

DAVIS pursuant to this proffer agreement, except in a prosecution 

for false statements or perjury. Nevertheless, the United States 

can use information derived from statements. by Ms. DAVIS under 
885 

the proffer agreement directly or indirectly for the purpose of 

obtaining leads to other evidence, which evidence may be used by 

the United States against Ms. DAVIS in any prosecution of her. 

Moreover, the United States may use Ms. DAVIS" statements for the 

purpose of cross-examination of her should Ms. DAVIS testify at 

trial, or to rebut any evidence offered by or on behalf of Ms. 

DAVIS in connection with a trial and/or sentencing, should any 

prosecution be undertaken. 

Dated this 16th day of March, 1998. 

FOR THE UNITED STATES 

Solomon L, Wisenberg 

Deputy Independent CounselFOR Catherine 

fi 

lday DAVIS 

&mes BENSFIGLD / 

Attorney 

/ 

for MS/DAVIS 
886 
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---_---_--- ------------m-x 

DEPOSITION OF Thursday, September 3, 1998 

JOHN D. DEARDORFF Washington, D. C. 

. 

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Deposition of 

JOHN D. DEARDORFF 

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before the Independent Counsel, held in the Conference Room 

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of the Office of the Independent Counsel, Suite 490-North, 

12 

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N. W., Washington, D. C. 20004, 

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beginning at lo:40 a.m., when were present: 

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For the Independent Counsel: 

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MARY ANNE WIRTH, ESQUIRE 

Associate Independent Counsel 

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EDWARD J. PAGE, ESQUIRE 

Associate Independent Counsel 

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22 

23 

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25 Court Reporter: 

887 

OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL 

6245 Ee~~t~ue BouLwrd 

Deposition Services, Inc. 

RockwIle, MD 20852 

1301) 881.3344 

Elizabeth A. Eastman 

2300 M Street, N.W 

Sum 800 

Warhmgton, D.C. 2003; 

/202I ;RS 1239 
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PROCEEDINGS 

WHEREUPON, 

JOHN D. DEARDORFF 

having been called for examination by the Office of the 

Independent Counsel, and having been first duly sworn by the 

notary, was examined and testified as follows: 

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q Could you please state your name for the record, 

your full name? 

A Full name is John David Deardorff. 

Q Can you spell your last name, please? 

A D-E-A-R-D-O-R-F-F. 

Q You are a sergeant in the Uniformed Division of the 

Secret Service, is that correct? 

A Yes, ma'am. 

Q How long have you worked for the Secret Service? 

A I started January 10th of 1972, which is 26 years, 

11 months, or 10 months, whatever it is. 

Q You have been a sergeant for approximately 21 

years, is that correct? 

A Approximately, yes, 21 years, October 9th, I 

believe. 

Q This last time around, how long have you been 

assigned to the White House? And when I say this last time 
889 

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1 around, I mean, the most recent tour of duty that you've had 

2 at the White House in your career. 

3 A Right. I'm pretty sure it was August of '94 when I 

4 came back down for this time. 

Q Okay. So, approximately four years? 

A Right. 

Q Can you tell us what your assignment has been, or 

8 assignments have been since August of 1994 as a sergeant in 

9 the Uniformed Division? 

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A From August '94 to February '95, I was unassigned, 

which means anything, you know, they have. And from February 

'95 through August of this year, August the 16th, I was 

assigned to the -- 1 was one of the supervisors in charge of 

the East Wing Mansion and West Wing areas. 

Q And since that date, since August 16th of 1998, you 

are unassigned, is that correct? 

I A Correct. 

Q I'm going to ask you if you recall an incident that 

happened at the Northwest Gate of the White House on December 

6th, 1997? Do you recall hearing about it? 

A I recall hearing about it, yes. 

Q When that incident occurred, you were not on duty, 

is that correct? 

A Correct. 

Q In fact, you came on duty that day approximately 
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what time? 

A I was supposed tc start my tour of duty at 2 

o'clock, 1400 hours. 

Q Two o'clock in the afternoon? 

A Right. 

Q At the time that you came on duty, did you have an 

opportunity to talk to Sergeant Keith Williams? 

A I did. 

Q Sergeant Keith Williams is another Uniformed 

Division sergeant in the Secret Service, is that correct? 

A Correct. 

Q Can you tell us what the nature of your 

conversation was with Sergeant Williams at that time? 

A Well, the nature of the conversation was in 

reference to an incident or situation that occurred earl 

that day at the Northwest Gate. 

Q What did he tell you about it? 

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A To the best of my knowledge, he said something 

like, you were, you'd better be glad you weren't working 

today, you know, like day work or something to that effect, 

you weren't working today. Of course, I -- what do you mean, 

you know. Basically I had heard about the incident. 

Q So, Sergeant Williams said something to you to the 

effect of you'd better be glad you didn't work today. And 

you took that to mean, I take it, that -- 
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A Something had happened. 

Q -- something had happened that was not so pleasant, 

correct? 

A Correct. 

Q Did he proceed to tell you what had happened that 

day? 

A Yes. 

Q Do you remember, to the best of your memory, what 

he told you had happened? 

A Well, to the best of my recollection, it was in 

regards to an appointment showing up at the Northwest Gate 

and there was some kind of -- I guess they had to hold this 

appointment up a little bit, not, you know, let it directly 

in, because normally I think they call inside anyway to the 

Lobby. But just that, you know, they -- there was some kind 

of a situation because of that, you know, the person being 

held up. 

And I don't know exactly what happened inside, but, 

you know -- 

Q Can I ask you a couple questions? 

A Sure. 

Q Did Sergeant Williams tell you the name of the 

person who was held up at the gate? 

A As far as I know, can remember, it was Monica. 

1 Q Did he say Monica Lewinsky? 
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A Just Monica, 1 think. 

Q Just Monica? Is that the first time that you hear5 

her name, or heard reference to that person? 

A As far as I know, it is. 

Q Did Sergeant Williams tell you whether it had been 

alleged that anybody at the gate had disclosed information to 

Monica that they shouldn't have? 

A I believe that was -- happened in -- there was some 

kind of a conversation that, of course, I wasn't privy to, 

but that occurred in the booth or the gate, you know, 

Northwest Gate area. Evidently it was overheard and I guess 

some -- whatever happened started at that point. 

Q So, are you telling us that Sergeant Williams told 

you that Monica had overheard some information at the 

Northwest Gate from Secret Service Officers? Is that right? 

A (Witness nodded indicating an affirmative 

response.) 

Q You have to answer verbally. 

A Yes. 

Q Did he tell you what the nature of the information 

was that Monica had overheard? 

A That there was also an appointment at that time, 

you know, in the Oval, you know, I guess. 

Q That the President had another guest? 

A Another appointment, right. 
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Q Did Sergeant Williams tell you who that person was? 

A Well, I found that out -- well, I'm not 

particularly sure if I heard that from Williams or Chinery. 

Q And by Chinery, you are referring to -- 

A But it was -- 

Q Excuse me -- you are referring to Secret Service 

Officer Brent Chinery? 

A Correct. 

Q He is in the Uniformed Division? 

A Right. 

Q And you're friendly with him? 

A I worked with him for a while. 

Q In any event, either from Sergeant Williams or from 

Officer Chinery, you learned the name of the President's 

guest that day, correct? 

A As far as I know it was -- yes, I did, and it was 

Eleanor Mondale, I believe. 

Q Okay. Now, did Sergeant Williams tell you what, if 

anything, happened that day as a result of Monica overhearing 

information regarding another appointment of the President's 

at the gate? 

A Well, just that later he had -- called into Betty 

Currie's office, and I don't know what transpired, you know, 

in the interim. But that he was called to Betty Currie's 

office and, of course, went in, and he met with her and the 
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President there. 

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Q Okay. Did Sergeant Williams tell you that he spoke 

directly with the President at that time? 

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A There was a conversation. I don't know if he 

talked to the President, or the President talked to him. 

But. 

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Q Okay. But there was a conversation between 

Sergeant Williams and the President? 

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A Or among them. 

Q Yes? 

A Right. 

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Q Okay. Did Sergeant Williams tell you that the 

President had said anything to him? 

A Just that, from what I can remember, you know, he 

wanted to know who had talked out at the gate or something, 

you know. I don't know how it was phrased. But that he 

wanted to know the officer's name, or whoever it was. 

Q Did Sergeant Williams tell you whether the 

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894 

flow from the disclosure of information at the gate? 

A Could you restate that, or say that again? 

Q Did Sergeant Williams tell you whether the 

President had said anything to him about what might happen to 

the person who disclosed the information at the gate, if that 

had happened? 
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A From how I heard it, it -- there was some tal:< that 

2 he wanted the officer fired. 

3 Q Did Sergeant Williams tell you that the President 

4 had told him that that person could be fired or would be 

5 fired? 

6 A As far as I know, it was -- it came from him. 

7 Q It came from the President? 

8 A Yeah. 

9 Q Do you remember what Sergeant Williams told you the 

10 President had said to him about what could happen to the 

11 person who had done this? 

12 A I don't know if he said anything about what would 

13 happen, just that he was visibly upset and he said, you know, 

14 something about firing the officer. 

15 Q And when you say visibly upset, are you referring 

16 to the President? 

17 A Right. 

18 Q And that the President said something about firing? 

19 A As I heard it. 

20 Q And it was your understanding from your 

21 conversation with Sergeant Williams that the President had 

22 said this directly to Sergeant Williams, is that correct? 

23 A Right. 

24 Q Do you remember anything else about your 

25 conversation with Sergeant Williams that day about the 
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Northwest Gate incident? 

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A Well, I had heard that -- I don't know what the 

timeframe was, but shortly thereafter he got ahold of Captain 

Purdy and Captain Purdy responded to Betty Currie's office 

II also. 

Q When you say he got ahold of, are you talking about 

Sergeant Williams? 

A Right. 

Q And Captain Purdy also had to go to Betty Currie's 

office? Or went to that office? 

A I understand that all of them were in there 

together. 

Q Okay. When you say all of them, you'mean Sergeant 

Williams and Captain Purdy: 

A Right. 

Q Was it your understanding that Sergeant Williams 

had an initial conversation with Betty Currie before Captain 

Purdy got involved? 

A Well, he must have, because this was -- you know, 

the first time when Betty and Keith and the President were 

there, you know, yeah, I suppose they did have a conversation 

before. 

Q Okay. When you say Keith, you mean Keith Williams, 

correct? 

A Right. 
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essence, who is the person at the gate who disclosed this 

information, and the President said something about firing 

and the President seemed upset, that occurred before Captain 

Purdy came up to the Oval Office, to your understanding, 

correct? 

18 A To my understanding, correct. 

19 Q Okay. What did Sergeant Williams tell you about 

Captain Purdy's involvement in going up to Betty Currie's 

office? 

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Q so, it was y--q ,,Y impression when the President spoke 

directly to Sergeant w:lliams, that occurred before Captain 

Purdy went up to the Oval Qffice, is that correct? 

A The way I understand it, there was a conversation 

before Purdy got there. 

Q Okay. And the conversation involved Betty Currie, 

Keith Williams, and the President, correct? 

A As I've heard it. 

Q As you understood it? 

A Right. 

Q So, the conversation that you've been testifying 

about where the President says to Sergeant Williams, in 

A He just said that, you know, he came up and, and 

had, you know -- well, he was called there, you know, to the 

meeting, I guess, with Betty and Keith Williams and the 

President. 
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Q so, this was a meeting between Betty Currlli 

Sergeant Williams, Captain Purdy, Correct? 

A As I understand it. 

Q Do you have any information as to whether r-e 

President was involved in that encounter as well? Cr do you 

not know? 

A I'm not, I'm not positive if he was involved in 

that or not. 

Q Did Sergeant Williams tell you anything about 

whether the President ever spoke directly to Captain Purdy at 

any time, whether Sergeant Williams was present or net? 

A I'm trying to think back of what he told me. 

I was led to believe he did, he was there with 

Captain Purdy. 

Q That who was there? 

A That the President was there. 

Q Okay. 

A Or I am assuming, one or the other. 

Q Okay. Did you ever hear about any conversation 

between the President and Captain Purdy? 

A I haven't heard of any conversation between those 

two. I wasn't told of any. 

Q Okay. Other than the conversation that you've 

already told us about between the President and Sergeant 

Williams, have you heard of any other conversations that the 
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President had with anybody about the Northwest Gate incident? 

A Not that I can recall right now. 

Q Okay. 

BY MR. PAGE: 

Q Did Sergeant Williams say where he was when he 

talked with the President? 

A In Betty Currie's office, I'm pretty sure is where 

he said he was. 

Q Did he say where the President was? 

A As close as I can remember, he said he came into 

Betty Currie's office. 

Q Did Sergeant Williams ever mention anything about a 

door being cracked? 

A No. 

Q Did you believe Sergeant Williams when he was 

telling you this? 

A Yes. 

Q Did he ever try to, to you, change his story about 

this, or to modify the facts, or give you additional facts, 

or subtract or take away any facts? 

A Not to my knowledge. 

Q When he was telling you this, was he still agitated 

at all? 

A He seemed concerned, but not, you know -- all 

frustrated, I guess. 
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I Q when you say "concerned", can you heln US 

understand that? 

A Well, I believe that if something happened like 

that, you know, you would, anyone I guess would be, you know, 

a little uneasy or like not knowing what's going to come of 

it, or whatever. I don't know his feeling on it. 

BY MS. WIRTH: 

Q Has it been your experience, as a sergeant for the 

past 21 years, have you ever had an encounter with the 

President, with any President, about the behavior of anyone 

you supervised or about any incident that occurred under your 

supervision? 

A I personally have never had a situation like that. 

Q Any such conversation with any President? 

A No. 

(Off the record.) 

BY MR. PAGE: 

Q Sergeant, I believe you said the other day when we 

took your statement at the United States Secret Service that 

your conversation with Williams took place in the basement? 

A Of the Old Executive Office Building, Old EOB. 

Q What is that room again? 

A This is where, you know, the sergeants' office is, 

our locker room, and where we change, you know, the shift 

change is in the basement, the hallway outside, you know, 
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before you go into the sergeants' office. 

Q Did he initiate the conversation or did you? 

A I didn't know anything about the incident. Well, 

he did, in answer to your question. 

Q Was he confiding in you at the time, or what was 

the purpose of him telling you this, if you know? 

A Well, people pass along information all the time 

like that. 

Q Was it safe to say that for him it was a big deal? 

A I would say so because, you know, like I, you know, 

referred to earlier, things like that don't happen every day. 

Q Are you pals with him, so that he would be sharing 

details about this with you as a result of being a friend, or 

do -- 

A Well, perhaps a peer and perhaps friendship. I 

don't know what his motivation was. But we do live in the 

same area also, and have carpooled occasionally, you know. 

Q Did he ask you or solicit your opinion about what 

he should do, or whether you thought anything, or there might 

be repercussions from this event? 

A Not to my knowledge. 

MS. WIRTH: That concludes the deposition. 

(Whereupon, at 11:OO a.m., the deposition was 

concluded.) 
902 

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CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER - NOTARY PUBLIC 

I, Elizabeth A. Eastman, the officer before whom 

the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify that 

the witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing 

deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of said 

witness was taken by me electronically and thereafter reduced 

to typewriting by me; that said deposition is a true record 

of the testimony given by said witness; that I am neither 

counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties 

to the action in which this deposition was taken; and, 

further, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney 

or counsel employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 

otherwise interested in the outcome of the action. 

NOTARY PUBLIC FOR THE 

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 

My Commission Expires: 

July 31, 2000 
903 

DOD DOCUMENTS 

833-3)(7-l-979,982-83, 

985-94,996-1069,1072-9042,9047-9419, 

9421-9431,9433,9436,9441-45,9447, 

9452-13361,13365-15097,15099-15110, 

15112-17648,17651-17963,17972,18000-18009, 

18019-18044,18046,18067-18073,18080,18086-18090, 

18095,18097-18098,18101,18106-18111,18113-18115, 

18117-18119,18121-18162 

Redacted In Their Entirety 
904 

Monica S. Lewinsky 

6 November 1997 

Mr. Vernon Jordan 

Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld 

1333 New Hampshire, NW 

Washington, DC 20036 

Dear Mr. Jordan: 

It.tiras a real pleasure meeting with you. I know how very busy and 

demanding your schedule is; I particularly appreciated your taking the 

time to speak with me. 

I feel compelled to mention how overcome I was by your genuineness. 

While some people wear their heart on their sleeve: you appear to wear 

your soul. It made me happy to know that our friend has such a 

wonderful confidante in you. 

I believe I may have neglected to- mention that while my current position 

is administrative, I am seeking more substantive work in my next 

position. 

Thanks again for your time, and I look forward to hearing from you upon 

your return. 

Sincerely, 

Monica S. Lewinsky 

833-DC-00000980 
905 

First and foremost, thank )-ou for helping me. 

.iIy ‘ dream had been to work in Communications or Strategic Planning at 

the White House. I am open to any suggestions that you may have on 

u-ork that is similar in scope or direction. 

It is important to me that I be engaged and challenged in my work; that I 

not be someones ’ administrative/executive assistant; and that my salan. 

provide me a comfortable living in NY. 

I have enclosed my resume. [Tab l] 

Networks: 

* Assistant producer at any of the networks 

* Kaplan -- CNN NY Bureau 

* News/political segments at MTV 

Assistant to an account executive at any of the following 

(not administrative assistant): 

* Hill Br Knowlton 

* Burson-Marsteller 

* Downey & Chandler 

* Bozell Public Relations/ Bozell Worldwide 

* Devries Public Relations 

[ These are major agencies with which I am familiar. You may have more 

suggestions from the attached list of agencies in NY (Tab 2)]. 

A note about the UN: 

The idea of working at the UN does not appeal to me. As a result of what 

happened in April 96, ‘ I have already spent a year and a half at an agency 

which was not in my area of interest. 1 want a job where I feel challenged 

and engaged. I dont ’ think it is the right place for me. 

Salary: 833~IX-O0000981 

While my current salary as a GS-9 step 2 is $32.736, my research shows 

that my counterparts at the Pentagon are all GS-12s ’ with salary levels 

ranging $45,939 - $59,725 depending upon their step number. (It is a 

mystery to me too why I am not a GS-12 when we all perform the same 

duties!) Therefore, I do not think it inappropriate to request a salary of 
906 

S65.0~10. My friends in ;L?’ have advised me that living expenses are high. 

Its ’ important to have an adequate salary. [Tab 31 

Another note: I hope you will understand when I say I prefer that 

Marsha not be involved in this endeavor. Please respect that. 

Again, thanks for everything. 

833-DC4IOOOO984 
907 

(OFFICIAL LETTERHEAD) 

29 September 1997 

KEMORANDUM FOR r-uNDsom 

SUBJECT The New Deal 

A proposition for you: You show me that you will let me 

visit you sans a crisis, and I will be on my best behavior when I 

come (to see you, that is). 

May I please come for to see you tonight? According to my 

calendar, we haven't spent time together on the phone or in 

person in six weeks. You'll be gone the next few weekends, and I 

would really hate to not have seen you for two months. 

(C'mon.. .be a sweetie and make my day!) 

833-DC-OOOOO995 
908 

24 June 1997 

Dear Betty: 

Since I ha\.e not been able to get in touch with him, I am taking the 

unorthodos liberty of sharing my concerns \-ith you. I would very much 

appreciate it if you could relay this information to him either verbally or 

by letting him read this note. If youre ’ not comfortable doing either, I 

understand. 

The intention of this note is not to “tattle-tale”, but to clarify. My 

meeting with Marsha was not at all what I expected. While she was very 

pleasant, she questioned me endlessly about my situation. Despite the 

fact that she already knew why I had to leave, she asked me to tell her 

about it, asked if I had acted “inappropriately” and why I wanted to come 

back. She seemingly knew nothing about my current position. She didnt ’

know of any openings and said she would check with the people in 

Communications. He said to me that he had told her I had gotten a bum 

deal, and I should get a good job in the West Wing. I was surprised that 

she would question his judgment and not just do what he asked of her. Is 

it possible that, in fact, he did not tell her that? Does he really not want 

me back in the complex ? He has not responded to my note, nor has he 

called me. Do you know what is going on ? If so, are you able to share it 

with me? 

I did not cause any trouble when I had to leave last year because I knew 

how important the election was. He promised me then I could come back 

after the election, and I have been counting on him. I think I have been 

more than patient since it has now been eight months since the election, 

not to mention the seven months prior to November that I waited. Shall 

I continue to be patient? 

Betty, I am very frustrated and sad. I especially dont ’ understand this 

deafening silence, lack of response and complete distancing evidenced by 

him. Why is he ignoring me ? I have done nothing wrong. I would expect 

that behavior like this might be directed toward an “unfriendly”, but 

certainly not to me. I would never do anything to hurt him. 

I am hoping to hear from either of you soon. Im ’ at a loss, and I dont ’

know what to do. 

Best wishes. 

833-DC-00001070 
909 

Dear Sally: 

Since I have not been able to set in touch with him I am taking the liberty of sharing my concerns 

with LOU. I would \-er! much appreciate it if you could rela! this informatlon to him either 

verbally or by lettin, (7 him read this note. If you’re not comfortable doing either, I understand. 

My meeting with Mq was not at all what I expected. While she was very pleasant, she 

questioned me endlessly about my situation. Despite the fact that she already knew why I had to 

leave, she asked me to tell her about it, if I had acted “inappropriately”, why I wanted to come 

back and she seemingly knew nothing about my current position. She didn’t know of any 

openings and said she would check with the people in Communications. He said to me that he 

told her “I had gotten a bum deal, and I should get a good job in the - -- ” I was suprised 

that she would question his judgement and not just do what he asked of her. But then it is also 

possible that he never said that because he really doesn’t want me to come back. 

I did not cause any trouble when I had to leave last year because I knew how important the event 

in the fall was. He promised me then I could come back after the -, and I have been counting 

on him. I think I have been more than patient since it is now 8 months after the not to 

mention the 7 months prior to the 

Either way, Sally, I am very frustrated and sad. I especially don’t understand why he is ignoring 

me. I would never do anything to hurt him. I don’t know why he wants to hurt me. 

I am hoping to hear from either of you soon. 

Best wishes. 

M 

833-DC-00001071 
910 

Tripp, Linda, , OSDlPA 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: 

LWi&VQ~O~ 

HELP’ 

Thursday, October 16, 1997 1:34PM 

High 

< <File Attachment: ML2.DOC> > C <File Attachment: BC2.DOC> > LT- Can you please print these 

out, take a look at them and make any changes (in BOLD) and send it back to me...PLEASE. 

right now. I have to have it all ready to go by 4 pm or so. Thanks, 

Icant ’ escape 

Love 

M 

833-DC-00009043 

Page 1 
911 

Education: 

Lewis and Clark College Portland, Oregon 

Bachelor of Science in Psychology May 1995 

Experience: 

Department of Defense The Pentagon Washington, D.C. 

C&&&al Assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs 

April 1996 - present 

Serve as principal assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense (ASD) for Public Affairs in support of 

his dual role as both Department of Defense spokesman and head of Department of Defense Public 

Affairs. Assist in preparing the ASD for bi-weekly press brief;lgs. Interact with the NATIONAL media 

on the ASDs ’ behalf. Provide the ASD with timely updates of current media stories. Act as liaison with the 

offices of the Secretary, the White House, other Cabinet Secretaries and the National Security Council. 

Provide support to the Secretary of Defense and Assistant Secretary on frequent international travel 

which includes a contingent of traveling media. Handle the ASDs ’ daily schedule and correspondence. 

The White House Washington, D.C. 

Staff Ass&ant to Director of L.-egdative Affairs Correspondence, November 1995 - April 1996 

Wrote drafts and correspondence for Staff Secretarys ’ approval and ultimately the Presidents ’

signature, which often required research of various Administration issues and policies. Coordinated 

mass mailings to Congress for the President and other Senior Administration officials. Processed and 

vetted all incoming mail to the President &om Congress. Trained and supervised new interns on White 

House procedure and preparation of White House correspondence. 

The White House Washington, D.C. 

Summer Intern Office of the Chief of Stuff, Summer 1995 (WASNT ’ THIS LONGER?????) 

Drafted form letters and individual responses for the Chief of StafYs signature. Acted as a liaison for 

Chief of Staffs office to other White House offices, Cabinet agencies, and Congressional offices. 

Updated office manual. Supervised and coordinated intern and volunteer staff. 

Metropolitan qublic Defenders Portland, Oregon 

Alternatives Stuff, February - May 1995 

Implemented new psychology expert reference techniques. Assisted attorneys in finding viable 

alternatives to prison for their clients. Directed clients in successful search for support, shelter, food 

and transportation. Updated files on resource materials. 

Southeast Mental Health Network (Practicum) Portland, Oregon 

Socialization Staff Assistant, January - June 1994 

Assisted staff in teaching socialization skills to mentally ill clients to ease their integration back into 

society. Updated clients’ confidential reports. Coordinated fund raising to benefit extra-curricular 

theatre activities. 

Additional Information: 833~DC-00009044 

l TS-SCI Clearance: Current 

l Proficient in Macintosh for Microsoft Word 6.0, WordPerfect for Windows 5.2, Quorum, and Infosys. 
912 

First and foremost, thank you for helping me. 

My dream had b een to work in Communications or Strategic Planning at the 

White House. I am open to any suggestions that you may have on work that is 

similar in scope or direction. 

It is important to me that I be engaged and challenged in my work; that I XXJJ 

be someones ’ administrative/executive assistant; and that my salary provide 

me a comfortable living in NY. 

I have enclosed my resume. [Tab l] 

Networks: 

l Assistant producer at any of the networks 

l Kaplan -- CNN NY Bureau 

* News/political segments at MTV 

Assistant to an account executive at any of the following 

(not administrative assistant): 

l Hill & Knowlton 

* Burson-Marsteller 

* Downey & Chandler 

* Bozell Public Relations/ Bozell Worldwide 

l Devries Public Relations 

[ These are major agencies with which I am familiar. You may have more 

suggestions from the attached list of agencies in NY (Tab 2)J. 

A note about the UN: 

833~DC-00009045 

The idea of working at the UN does not appeal to me. As a result of what 

happened in April 96, ‘ I have already spent a year and a half at an agency 

which was not in my area of interest. I want a job where I feel challenged and 

engaged. I dont ’ think it is the right place for me. 

salary: 

While my current salary as a GS-9 step 2 is $32,736, my research shows that 

my counterparts at the Pentagon are all GS-12s ’ with salary levels ranging 
913 

$45,939 - $59,725 d epending upon their step number. (It is a mystery to me 

too why I am not a GS-12 when we all perform the same duties!) Therefore, I 

do not think it inappropriate to request a salary of $65,000. My friends in NY 

have advised me that living expenses are high. Its ’ important to have an 

adequate salary. [Tab 3] 

Another note: I hope you will understand when I say I prefer that Marsha 

not be involved in this endeavor. Please respect that. 

Again, thmks for everything. 
Tripp, Linda, ,_ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , - 

To: 

Subject: 

Tripp, Linda, ,e 

howdy 

Date: Thursday, March 06, 1997 9:24AM 

Priority: High 

Hi, there. o.k. stupid point to make but i figured out that the he Betty did call on V-Day because her boss 

was in NY on Tuesday, the other day I was out of town. Unless of course, she called Thursday evening 

here. But stiil, its ’ sweet. I guess I would have seen him on V-Day. Oh, I also wanted to tell you about 

thetie thing.... he didn;t wear the tie I sent him for his B-day for, i think, three weeks. so well ’ see. whats ’

your day like? msl 

Tripp, Linda, ,- 

From: 

To: 

cc: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: 

Thursday, March 06, 1997 1: 11 PM 

High 

Linda/LCDR C, 

Since you guys were busy and we didnt ’ get a chance to talk after the 

meeting, the following budget related items are submitted for your 

review and in certain instances, approval (marked by +***I: 

l Berthing:: I have a message into LT Carter in Yorktown to 

confirm/prep for contract the Ft Magruder Inn @ $9l/night/person 

l * l l *Banquet:: We have selected a very nice Colonial Dinner, served by 

personnel in colonial costumes that includes carafes of wine and 

pitchers of beer for $43.47/person . . ..this may be a little less as the 

quote included tax & gratuity and we should be able to bag on the 

tax////The banquet choices at the Ft Magruder start @ $25.50 and go up 

and do not include the carafes of wine and beer....1 can fax over the 

list if you would like to see 

l 

l l l *Cocktail hour:: Unlimited reception by the hour, premium brands @ 

SlO/per plus 18% gratuity . . ..second hour would be S7.OOlper 

l Breakfast should be $1.50-2.00/person 

l Lunch is TBD at this time....guestimate $5-lo/person 

l 

l l l l Momentos:: ’ A very nice 3X5 frame that has the Coast Guard WWII 

postal stamp and small brass plaque that explains the significance under 

a very nice matting as well as a plaque notin the occasion (JCOC 60, 

blah blah blah) . . . .current estimate comes in 8 $22-25/per....minus the 

plaque about JCOC, this is the gift that RTC gives to other visiting 

dignitaries and the international students who go through the various 

schools there . . ..very nice for sitting on a desk or mantle 

The following relates to the 18-l 9 Mar trip.....many facets will be 

walk/talk throughs of what will actually occur: 

l The 270’ and 110’ cutters will not be coming to Yorktown. We will 

have to drive down to Portsmouth to see a representative cutter (the one 

coming to the event will not be in) . . . . ..I have tentatively scheduled 

this for the afternoon of 18 Mar. The 270 will walk you through what 

will occur at Yorktown and we will tour a 110 as well with a talk 

through 

l Aircraft fly by and helo ops will also not be available for a demo 

l 

l l l I ‘ am assuming you want a representative meal of the type we would 

833-DC-00#9420 

Page 36 
915 

i/h0QltEJ88QagRXaPjDZVBoABAAAFP/FSgFblCL2lXbdBlqAlP FfAEblCFwHQMU 8V6ARuulp4 

/3UCM;aFSnQualgTAABX/xUsB~~5QPQlBAABOGWoAoVQ4b\~~qAGhrBAAAUP8V3ABuUIXAdQlz9oX 

dCVXrz2EBW5Q/9eF23QQhfZ 1 CWo = 

--===================== -857601076= =--- 

Tripp, Linda, ,w 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: 

Boy, I look so scary 

(if Betty is nice) get 

pretty, o.k.? msl 

hi, ya 

Wednesday, March 05, 1997 10:05AM 

High 

today. People might think that I thought it was Halloween. Oh, well. 5 should 

my tie today. I sure hope he like s it. make me feel better and tell me its ’ really 

Tripp, Linda, ,e 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Lewinsky, MO 

Tripp, Linda, , 

RE: hi, ya 

Wednesday, March 05, 1997 11:47AM 

Remind me to come to you when i feel good more often (ha-ha-ha)! In fact, maybe if i come bug you later 

youll ’ make me feel better about lookmg so GROSS today. The highlight of my appearance today being the 

vlocano zit i have on my cheek. Hmmm...attractive! Im ’ bored. Would you like to go for coffee later? I 

know youre ’ busy these days so I wont ’ be offended if you cant. ’ buh-bye msl 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ; 

Subject: RE: hi, ya - 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 

From: Tripp, Linda 

’ 11:34AM 

Are you asking me if the tie if really pretty? It is positively gorgeous. I am knot (ha!) particularly into ties, 

but from my exposure to you, I am developing an interest. Yours was stupendous, no kidding, clean, crisp, 

texture, color, pattern, bright, without being at all over the top.....a total hit. 

--------- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , m 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,w 

Subject: hi, ya 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 10:05AM 

Priority: High 

Boy, I look so scary today. People might think that I thought it was Halloween. Oh, well. - should 

(if Betty is nice) get my tie today. 

pretty, o.k.? msl 

I sure hope he like s it. make me feel better and tell me its ’ really 

Tripp, Linda, , OSD/PA 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Lewinsky, Monica 

Tripp, Linda, , 

RE: coffee break 

Tuesday, March 04, 1997 1:21PM 

833-DC-00009432 

believe me it is not that funny. just not a good idea to e-mail it. hope to c u 18r.msl 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,w 

Page 48 
916 

price was $24.00, but is on sale for s 12.00. Because of the quantity were ’ looklng for, ?hey may be 

willing to bring the cost down even more. The big question will be, if we try to have it engraved with 

” JCOC 60”, what will it look like, and will it hold up? Im ’ going to take the keychain down to David Mann 

Jewelers and get their advice. I will have them engrave on the keychain to see how it works. If it doesn:, ’

then well ’ know. Ive ’ had one of these keycharns for over 5 years, and its ’ sturdy. As far as the 

gold-plate, its ’ worn down, but I would suspect that would happen with anything over time. 

Thanks! Stevi 

Tripp, Linda, , - 

From: 

To: 

Date: 

Priority: 

Lewinsky, Monica, ____ 

Tripp, Linda, , e 

Tuesday, March 04, 1997 9:09AM 

High 

Mornin. ’ When would be a good time to come down and get the release from you?MSL 

Tripp, Linda, , m 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

To: Tripp, Linda, , C_ 

Subject: coffee break 

Date: Tuesday, March 04, 1997 12:54PM 

Priority: High 

hi. its ’ me your loyal freak. i forgot to tell YOU something mildly amusing...mildly. maybe we can escape 

for coffee later? does your sched permit? Iill ’ tell you the funny then) msl 

Trim, Linda, ,- 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Lewinsky, Monica, ,s 

Tripp, Linda, ,- 

RE: where are you? 

Monday, March 03, 1997 4:37PM 

Lets ’ deal with it tomorrow. I think youve ’ had enough of me today!...msl 

------em-- 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,- 

To: Lewinskv, Monica, ,- 

Subject: RE:-where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 4:30PM 

833-DC-00009434 

Lets ’ drop it, its ’ not worth the time.......lll ’ be fine tomorrow. I have the vacancy announcement. 

--------_- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,m 

To: Tripp, Linda, , _ 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 4:16PM 

You are right that about my “bad” habit of jumping down peoples ’ throat sometimes 

can you laugh even when youre ’ mad at me?). I know that sometr - 

I am sorry because I know that you do not have to endure that from me. I did not 

ever mean for my remarks to be “biting”, and I am just paranoid about doing something to lose this job. I 

am hyper-sensitive to that fear because of what happened before -- this is not an excuse, more like an 

explanation. I HOPE YOU KNOW HOW VERY MUCH I APPRECIATE YOUR FRIENDSHIP. I hope that in the 

fututre, if there is a future, you let me know sooner when I do something that bothers ou. It seems that 

this has been sitting for awhile. Of course, that is prefaced with me trying to not be a Y . 

Page 50 
917 

From: Tripp. Lfnca. , _ 

To: Lewinsqv, Monica, ,1) 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monet y, March 03, 1997 3:OOPM 

It takes a lo: to make me “mad” -- you have a habit of jumping down the throats of people you care 

about.......1 am certain your Mom and Aunt get this, too. Im ’ sure you dont ’ see It. NC. you dont ’ have to 

agree” ‘ with everything I say, and yes, I fully expect a give and take and yes, even a sense of frustration 

here and again -- I dont ’ expect what I continue to get -- biting remarks and “reminders’ to watch myself. 

I didnt ’ get to this point in my career by being indiscreet, I KNOW when to be careful. You have done this 

one too many times, and it occurs to me that I have not deserved it in the past, do not deserve it now, and 

do not plan to tolerate it in the future. End. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,- 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,_ 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 1:41 PM 

Priority: High 

I dont ’ understand why it makes you so mad. I am uncomfortable. If I felt threatened by what I think 

people might overhear, whats ’ the difference to you? I think that you made some really hurtful statements. 

So just because I may disagree with something you walk away from me? Obviously if I ‘ knew best” I 

never would have needed your help in the first place. Why does it bother you so much that I felt 

uncomfortable? To say that it is insulting to you that I pretend that I know better than you, etc. is 

essentially saying to me that in order for us to be friends I have to agree with everything you say. My 

intention was NOT to insult you. I am sorry that I did. If YOU are done with this there is nothing I can say 

except that that makes me sad. I really dont ’ know why youre ’ so mad at me. Is there something else 

going on? 

---------- 

From: Tripp, Linda, , 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 1:23PM 

I wasnt ’ mad. I am now. It is insulting for YOU to portend that you know better than l how to be subtle. f 

dont ’ know what you do all day, but trust me when I say I speak about faxes and info back and forth all 

day. On the phone. To people. Constantly. I am done with this. Youre ’ on your own. You know better 

than anyone else anyway. 

---------- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica - 

To: Tripp, Linda, , __ 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:59PM 

should i fax it to kate so she could take it in with her? msl. ps thanx and are you mad at me? 

---------- 

From: Tripp, Linda, , w 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,m 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:48PM 

Kate is faxing me a copy of the announcement -- she is planning to go see Marsha today. lf someone in 

house wants it, there is a chance they will get it, but Kate seems confident that that wont ’ happen. She 

said to have your resume ready. LRT 

_ _ __ -- - - _ _ 

From: Lewinsky, 

To: Tripp, Linda, , 833~DC-oooo9435 

Subject: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:21PM 

Priority: Hign 

Hello, where are you? I am sorry i was such a pain before but this is all very stressful forme. write back. 

I dont ’ know whats ’ goin on. msl 

Page 51 
918 

l Command/installation photo 

l 5.0s ’ of the significant base commanders 

l S c of the project team member (Service branch representatives and field 

PASS) ’

l Fact sheets 

As aiready stated, the command/installation photos are due tomorrow, as weil as the bios ’ and 

assocla:ed photos. Fact sheets are very important and need to be addressed. 

Department of Defense has not produced a new “Fact File” since 1992. As a result, I do not have 

current updates on equipment and systems. The service branches have been producing their own fact 

sheets as new equipment and upgrades are introduced into their inventories. I have seen some of these 

fact sheets that have been produced. Many have been printed in color on high quality paper. Others have 

simply replaced the “Fact File” logo with the branch or command logo. Regardless, each of you should 

take a good look at your itinerary to see what types of equipment and systems the JCOC participants will 

be exposed to and gather fact sheets for the binder. This is a chance to put a major spin on the contents 

of the binder for your command. 

If you plan on presenting a command “Welcome” package to the participants when they arrive, 

please provide a copy to us so that we are neither duplicating efforts, nor leaving something out. 

The JCOC directorate does not have funding for huge printing costs. That is why we need your 

photo/trio/fact sheet inputs NOW! If you want to provide color inputs, we must receive them right away to 

make decisions. All inputs must be clear for reproduction purposes. 

must forward 80 copies to us for inclusion into the binder. 

If you have a special f.act sheet, you 

arm regards, L 

Tripp, Linda, , m 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,w 

To: Tripp, Linda, , B 

Subject: lets ’ talk 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 3:OOPM 

Priority: High 

I would much rather communicate with you in person. It is 3:00, can you meet me for coffee at 3:30? 

Tripp, Linda, , __ 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

Tripp, Linda, , __ 

RE: where are you? 

Monday, March 03, 1997 4:16PM 

You are right that about my bad” ‘ habit of jumping down peoples ’ throat sometimes C 

m... can you laugh even when youre ’ mad at me?). I know that sometimes I am 

difficult with you, and I am sorry because I know that you do not have to endure that from me. I did not 

ever mean for my remarks to be “biting”, and I am just paranoid about doing something to lose this job. I 

am hypersensitive to that fear because of what happened before -- this is not an excuse, more like an 

explanation. I HOPE YOU KNOW HOW VERY MUCH I APPRECIATE YOUR FRIENDSHIP. I hope that in the 

fututre, if there is a future, you let me know sooner when I do something that bothers you. It seems that 

this has been sitting for awhile. Of course, that is prefaced with me trying to not be a bitch. 

_ - - _ _ _ _ __ _ 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,- 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , c’ 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 3:OOPM 

833-DC-00009437 

Page 53 
919 

It takes a lot to make me -ad” ‘ -- You ?ave a habit of jumping doyin the throats of people you care 

about . . . . . . . I am certain you- !Aom and AJnt get this, too. Im ’ sure you dont ’ see it. No, you dont ’ have tc 

“agree” with everything I SE;. and Yes. ! fully expect a give and take and yes, even a sense of frustration 

here and again -- I dont ’ excect what j continue to get -- biting remarks and “reminders” to watch myself. 

I didnt ’ get to this point in -y career by being indiscreet, I KNOW when to be careful. You have done this 

one too many times, and i: Occurs to me that I have not deserved it in the past, do not deserve it now, ant 

do not plan to tolerate it in me future. End. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,B 

To: Tripp, Linda, , - 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 1:41 Phi 

Priority: High 

I dont ’ understand why it makes you so mad. 1 am uncomfortable. If I felt threatened by what I think 

people might overhear, whats ’ the difference to you. 7 I think that you made some really hurtful statements. 

So just because I may disagree with something you walk away from me? Obviously if “I knew best” I 

never would have needed your help in the first place. Why does it bother you so much that I felt 

uncomfortable? To say that it is insulting to you that I pretend that I know better than you, etc. is 

essentially saying to me that in order for us to be friends I have to agree with everything you say. My 

intention was NOT to insult YOU. I am sorry that I did. If you are done with this there is nothing I can say 

except that that makes me sad. I really dont ’ know why youre ’ so mad at me. Is there something else 

going on? 

___----- 

From: Tripp, Linda, , w 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , m 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 l:23PM 

I wasnt ’ mad. I am now. It is insulting for you to portend that you know better than I how to be subtle. I 

dont ’ know what you do all day, but trust me when I say I speak about faxes and info back and forth all 

day. On the phone. To people. Constantly. I am done with this. Youre ’ on your own. You know better 

than anyone else anyway. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , - 

To: Tripp, Linda, , w 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:59PM 

should i fax it to kate so she could take it in with her? msl. ps thanx and are you mad at me? 

--------- 

From: Tripp, Linda, , s 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,w 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:48PM 

Kate is faxing me a copy of the announcement -- she is planning to go see Marsha today. If someone in 

house wants it, there is a chance they will get it, but Kate seems confident that that wont ’ happen. She 

said to have your resume ready. LRT 

--__-_---- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , 2_ 

To: Tripp, Linda, , N 

Subject: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:21 PM 

Priority: High 

Hello, where are you? I am sorry i was such a pain before but this is all very stressful for me. write back. 

i dont ’ know whats ’ goin on. msl 

833-DC-00009438 

Page 54 
920 

Tripp, Linda, , w 

From: 

To: 

cc: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: High 

Occasion for - will be 1400 hrs Wednesday in -office. 

Tripp, Linda, , w 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , m 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,m 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:59PM 

should i fax it to kate so she could take it in with her? msl. ps thanx and are you mad at me? 

From: Tripp, Linda, , ( 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,B 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:48PM 

Kate is faxing me a copy of the announcement - she is planning to go see Marsha today. If someone in 

house wants it, there is a chance they will get it, but Kate seems confident that that wont ’ happen. She 

said to have your resume ready. LRT 

---------- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,rssk, 

To: Trios, Linda, , ( 

Subject: ’ &here are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:21 PM 

Priority: High 

Hello, where are you? I am sorry i was such a pain before but this is all very stressful for me. write back. 

i dont ’ know whats ’ goin on. msl 

Tripp, Linda, , M 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: 

Lewinsky, Monica, , V 

Tripp, Linda, , _ 

RE: where are you? 

Monday, March 03, 1997 1:41 PM 

High 

I dont ’ understand why it makes you so mad. I am uncomfortable. If I felt threatened by what I think 

people might overhear, whats ’ the difference to you? I think that you made some really hurtful statements. 

So just because I may disagree with something you walk away from me? Obviously if “I knew best” I 

never would have needed your help in the first place. Why does it bother you so much that I felt 

uncomfortable? To say that it is insulting to you that I pretend that I know better than you, etc. is 

essentially saying to me that in order for us to be friends I have to agree with everything you say. My 

intention was NOT to insult you. I am sorry that I did. If YOU are done with this there is nothing I can say 

except that that makes me sad. I really dont ’ know why youre ’ so mad at me. Is there something else 

going on? 

From: Tripp, Linda, , m 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,B 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Page 55 
921 

Date: ?,londay, March 03, 1997 1:23PM 

I was- : ‘ mad. I am now. It is insulting for you to portend that you know better than I how to be subtle. I 

dont ’ <now what you do all day, but trust me when I say I speak about faxes and info back and forth all 

day. On the phone. To people. Constantly. I am done with this. YOUrf? ’ on ycdr own. You know better 

than aryone e!se anyway. 

----__- -- 

from: Lewinsky, Monica, 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,d 

B 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 7 997 12:59PM 

should i fax it to kate so she could take it in with her? msl. ps thanx and are you mad at me? 

------ 

From: Tripp, Linda, , __ 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:48PM 

Kate is faxing me a copy Of the announcement -- she is planning to go see Marsha today. If someone in 

house wants it, there is a chance they will get it, but Kate seems confident that that wont ’ happen. She 

said to have your resume ready. LRT 

__-__- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , r 

To: Tripp, Linda, , m 

Subject: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:21 PM 

Priority: High 

Hello, where are you? f am sorry i was such a pain before but this is all very stressful for me. write back. 

i dont ’ know whats ’ goin on. msl 

Tripp, Linda, , - 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , - 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,2--y 

Subject: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 12:21PM 

Priority: High 

Hello, where are you? I am sorry i was such a pain before but this is all very stressful for me. write back, 

i dont ’ know whats ’ goin on. mSl 

Tripp, Linda, ,w 

- 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

.,_,,abR_ 

Filing of Travel Forms--0SD 

Friday, February 21, 1997 4:30PM 

Because of the automation of travel forms, it is no longer necessary to submit multiple copies of all forms. 

To request travel on the DD1610, one need only submit the justification memo and original DO1610 (no 

copies) to DM--after PA approval, DM will make a copy for tracking purposes and forward the original to 

the travel office*. To file a DD135 1-2 (travel voucher), submit the original voucher only; however, please 

attach 3 copies of the approved DO1610 with appropriate receipts (originals, please). 

Give me a call/send me an e-mail if you have any questions. v/r Nancy 

*this step does not apply to PA employees on blanket travel orders 833-DC-000094Ul 

Page 56 
922 

cargo handling equipment needed. 7 Wii; the baggage be loose or 

palletized? How will the bags be marked - will there be some sort of 

uniform tag on each bag Identifying its o\vner? How and when are the 

Civic Leaders leaving Eglin on May 8th - i.e. are they departing on 

military air? 

Concerning the Ramada: 

I sort of doubt that the brochure from the Ramada will fax very well - 

how about if I mail one to you? Give me an address and Ill ’ do just 

that. 

Concerning Gifts: 

IS OSD paying us up to $25 per 60 JCOC participants for gifts? 

Concerning JCOC participants: 

When can I expect to get a list of JCOC participants? On the list of 

participants, I need to know their SSNs for the MEGP letters 

(permission to fly on AF aircraft). Will there be any handicapped 

individuals? We would like to know of any special medical conditions 

such as history of motion sickness, asthma, cardiac, diabetes etc. 

Will that kind of info be available? 

In General: 

Do you expect full up dress rehearsals for each of your advance trips? 

Will the 10 OSD support personnel be going on the demos on May 7 & 

81 Did you already get a representative base photo from us? If not, 

when do you need one? Do you need any bios from us now? Am I 

required to provide videographers for the visit? 

I noticed the comment concerning the “Persian Gulf” vs the “Arabian 

Gulf”. Is that a problem for this trip, i.e. will there be any 

Arabians in the group? 

Tripp, Linda, , OSD/PA 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , B 

To: Tripp, Linda, , - 

Subject: Im ’ back! 

Date: Wednesday, February 19, 1997 8:09AM 

Priority: High 

833-DC-00009446 

LRT--- Hi, I missed you!!!! I hope you enjoyed your few days of sanity with me gone because Im ’ back and 

NOT in good spirits. 

1. I have a small present for you. Everything was SO0000 expensive so Im ’ sorry its ’ small. 

2. Nice that the Big Creep didnt ’ even try to call me on V-day and he didnt ’ know for sure that I was going 

to London. 

3. He could have called last night and didnt. ’ He was out of town. 

4. Finally, -I- went away and it was the same night he was gone. -me!!!! 

HHHEEELLPPP!!!! 

Maybe we can have lunch or meet sometime today cuz I want to give you your present. 

Bye...msl 

Page 62 
923 

Subject: Internet classes online 

Date: Friday, February 14, 1997 5:16PM 

For your information, 

If any of your people are interested in learning more about the Internet to help them do their jobs, there 

is a web site that has series of short articles that are really self-contained classes. 

The classes include: 

Internet ‘ 101 

- Intro to the Internet 

- Net Anatomy 

- Future Enhancements 

*World Wide Web 

- Web Browsers 

- Anatomy of a Web Page 

- How the Web Works 

- Searching the Web 

- Understanding Addresses 

*E-Mail 

- How it Works 

- Anatomy of an Email Address 

- Attaching Files 

- Mailing Lists 

*Search Tools 

- Searching Electronic Databases 

*Exchanging Files 

- File Formats and Extensions 

- File Compression 

These are only a sample of the topics discussed. 

If you feel your people could benefit from these classes, please pass along this info. 

The site is at: http://www.learnthenet.com 

Captain Jim Knotts, IRM 

Tripp,, Linda, , - 

From: Lewinsky, Monica 

To: Tripp, Linda, , daSubject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 1:23PM 

833-DC-OCOO9448 

O.K. here is my fax in London -and phone, just in case, I dont ’ know what, here is 

the phone number ^. I will also be checking my messages in the hopes that the 

creep will call and say”Thank you for my love note. I love YOU. Will you run away with me?” What do ya 

think the likelihood of that happening is? Also, please dont ’ forget about the newspapers. I will bring you 

the $ later. 

thanx . ..xoxoxo...msl 

Page 64 
924 

From: Trioo, Linda, , e 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , m 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 1:03PM 

Ah, but that has already transpired, says my omnipoter: crystal ball...... 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , w 

To: Tripp, Linda, , - 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 11:05AM 

Priority: High 

lF ONLY I COULD PURSUADE THE CREEP AS EASILY!!!!!!! 

_--------- 

From: Tripp, Linda ?X 

To: Lewinsky, Monrca, , 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 11:03AM 

OK OK OK. 12 at bridge. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,m 

To: Tripp, Linda, , _ 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 10:18AM 

Priority: High 

ILL ’ PROBABLY GO GET LUNCH AT 12;O0 BECAUSE IM ’ HUNGRY ALREADY!!! l DONT ’ THINK ILL ’ 8E 

MORE THAN l/2 HOUR BECAUSE IM ’ LEAVING EARLY. PLEASE ESCAPE WITH ME!!!!!! HOW CAN yOU 

RESIST ME?? DONT ’ FORGET ILL ’ BE GONE FOR AWHILE...MSL 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,w 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , m 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 9:45AM 

I was so tired last night by the time I rolled into my driveway at about 8:30 (had to get up at 3 a.m. to be 

here at the Pentagon by 5:45 yesterday) that I didnt ’ call you, even though that had been my intent. I 

know you will have a fabulous time in London, I am seriously jealous. You will come home to an 

opportunity to get together with the creep, I am positive. Hope to see you sometime today, although not 

sure when at this point! LRT 

---------- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,m 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,ILQIs 

Subject: secret message 

Date: Wednesday, February 12, 1997 2:50PM 

I miss you!...msl 

From: 

To: 

cc: 

Subject: 

Date: 

llllmmb 

Saturday, February 15, 1997 7:37AM 

-~- 

Page 65 
wernet classes online 

Date: Friday, February 14, 1997 5:16PM 

For your information, 

If any of your people are interested in learning more about the Internet to help them do their jobs, there 

is a web site that has series of short articles that are really self-contained classes. 

The classes include: 

*Internet 101 

- Intro to the Internet 

- Net Anatomy 

- Future Enhancements 

*World Wide Web 

- Web Browsers 

- Anatomy of a Web Page 

- How the Web Works 

- Searching the Web 

- Understanding Addresses 

l E-Mail 

- How it Works 

- Anatomy of an Email Address 

- Attaching Files 

- Mailing Lists 

*Search Tools 

- Searching Electronic Databases 

*Exchanging Files 

- File Formats and Extensions 

- File Compression 

These are only a sample of the topics discussed. 

If you feel your people could benefit from these classes, please pass along this info. 

The site is at: http://www.learnthenet.com 

Captain Jim Knotts, IRM 

Tripp, Linda, , w 

- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,a 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,v 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 10:18AM 

Priority: High 

ILL ’ PROBABLY GO GET LUNCH AT 12;00 BECAUSE IM ’ HUNGRY ALREADY!!! I DONT ’ THINK ILL ’ BE 

MORE THAN l/2 HOUR BECAUSE IM ’ LEAVING EARLY. PLEASE ESCAPE WITH ME!!!!!! HOW CAN YOU 

RESIST ME?? DONT ’ FORGET ILL ’ BE GONE FOR AWHILE...MSL 

---------- 

From: Tripp, Linda 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, -mm , 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 9:45AM 

I was so tired last night by the time I rolled into my driveway at about 8:30 (had to get up at 3 a.m. to be 

Page 66 
926 

here at the Pentagon by 5:45 yesterday) that l didnt ’ call you, even though that had been my intent. 1 

know you will have a fabulous time in London, I am seriously jealous. You will come home to an 

opportunity to get together with the creep, I am positive. 

sure when at this point! LRT 

Hope to see you sometime today. although not 

-_________ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, 

To: Tripp, Linda, , d 

_ 

Subject: secret message 

Date: Wednesday, February 12, 1997 2:50PM 

I miss you!...msl 

Tripp, Linda, , _ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica 

To: Tripp, Linda, , e 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 11:05AM 

Priority: High 

IF ONLY I COULD PURSUADE THE CREEP AS EASILY!!!!!!! 

-_^_______ 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,)- 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,-L 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 11:03AM 

OK OK OK. 12 at bridge. 

---------- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , w 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,m 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 10:18AM 

Priority: High 

ILL ’ PROBABLY GO GET LUNCH AT 12;00 BECAUSE IM ’ HUNGRY ALREADY!!! I DONT ’ THINK ILL ’ BE 

MORE THAN l/2 HOUR BECAUSE IM ’ LEAVING EARLY. PLEASE ESCAPE WITH ME!!!!!! HOW CAN YOU 

RESIST ME?? DONT ’ FORGET ILL ’ BE GONE FOR AWHILE...MSL 

_--___-___ 

From: Tripp, Linda, , m 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , w 

Subject: RE: secret message 

Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 9:45AM 

I was so tired last night by the time I rolled into my driveway at about 8:30 (had to get up at 3 a.m. to be 

here at the Pentagon by 5:45 yesterday) that I didnt ’ call you, even though that had been my intent. I 

know you will have a fabulous time in London, I am seriously jealous. You will come home to an 

opportunity to get together with the creep, I am positive. 

sure when at this point! LRT .’ ’ 

Hope to see you sometime today, although not 

----_---__ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,m 

To: Tripp, Linda, , w 

Subject: secret message 

Date: Wednesday, February 12, 1997 2:50PM 

I miss you!...msl 

Page 67 
927 

Lewinsky, Monica, , B 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: 

RE: Departure 

Monday, December 22, 1997 9:22AM 

High 

YOU have been scneduled for a debrief tomorrow at 0900 in Room 1 E864. Buzz the door and walk straight into 

the rear office, see B Thanks. Advise if this will conflict. The only other time to get you debriefed would 

be the following Tuesday. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , V 

To: m 

Subject: RE: Depaiure 

Date: Wednesday, December 17,1997 4:12PM 

not yet. i should know something soon. 

From:” 

To: Lewinsky, Monica,, ‘ m 

Subject: FW: Departure 

Date: Wednesday. December 17, 1997 3:16PM 

Any information available concerning your security clearance at the new location? 

-----_---_ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , 

To: 

Subject: RE: Departure 

Date: Monday, December 08,1997 4:43PM 

I saw the exchange below, and I should let you know I might be going to work for Ambassador Richardson at the 

USUN....so I may not be resigning from the government, possibly moving. Where does this leave me with 

paperwork and security stuff???? 

cc: 1-m 

Subject: FW: Departure 

Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 4:28PM 

Priority: High 

Monica, 

Debrief dates are Monday (0900) and Wednesday (13:30). We need to coordinate a date closest to when you no 

longer need your SCI clearance. Please advise. 

___------- 

From: v 

To: 

Subject: RE: Departure - 

Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 3:15PM 

Shes ’ resigning frcm the govt...will ’ you contact her and set up an agreeable time for her to be debriefed--perhaps 

whde Mr. Bacon is TDY. Nancy 

Page 1 

833-DC-00013362 
928 

Lewinsky, Monica, 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , I) 

Subject: Re: 

Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 1252PM 

Monica. 

sorry we couldnt ’ get to chat one to one on Friday - thats ’ what comes with 

a time difference of 16 hours I guess. My last day at work today for two 

weeks so Im ’ trying to tie up the loose ends, but I think Ill ’ just take it 

easy. 

Its ’ hot in Queensland so I think therell ’ be some swimming to be had. And 

a game of golf with my dad -I only play a couple of times a year so that 

should be fun. 

Anyway, enjoy your last few days at work, until you start the new thing, 

whatever that turns out to be. Who knows, you may find yourself back in 

Washington trying to fix the publics tarnished perception of some politician 

or other. 

Chris 

PS If you dont ’ have email at your new job, or at home, my home phone number 

isDrv 

Page 1 

833-DC-00013363 
929 

Lewinsky. Monica, , V 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

mlewinsk 

Re: yo _ 

Thursday, December 18, 1997 2:15Ahl 

I realized I never answered this email,-. First of all I have a 

-if vou catch mv drift. second of 

SC, are you moving from Washington or what? Are you going to work at the 

Pentagon anymore? 

I a.rn in LA now. 

-. ca;rammR 

Page 1 

833-DC-00013364 
930 

m said that if men felt they were competing with someone 

else for a female partner, they would produce more sperm. 

Sperm content and quality were influenced by a variety of 

factors including overall health, alcohol consumption and 

smoking. Men who drank a normal amount of alcohol ejaculated 

more sperm while smoking decreased production. 

Reutl6:28 09-l O-97 

REULBviaNewsEDGE 

KEYWORDS: SCIENCE-SEX 

Copyright (c) 1997 Reuters 

Received bv NewsEDGEIIAN: g/10/97 4:28 PM 

Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

RE: FW: Luck 

Wednesday, September lo,1997 4:41 PM 

it might sound silly, but sometimes i just really want somebody ( a male) in my life to just physically be with -- you 

know hugs and stuff (i dont ’ only think about sex). 

i was counting on someone to help me with a job and they put me in touch with someone else that just _ me 

around for six months. its ’ frustrating for me. then i get sad when i need some TLC and i cant ’ get it. i havent ’

made the circle of friends here in dc like i had in portland -- where if i just needed a guy i had a 3 or 4 male friends 

on whom i could call. here it seems that most of the guys in my life i have dated so of course, theres ’ always 

baggage involved. i think im ’ not happy here in dc and im ’ not really sure what to do about it. so in a nutshell...im ’

sad. 

it is nice of you to ask, thanks. 

From:mvq 

To: Lewinsky, ‘ Monica, , - 

Subject: RE: FW: Luck 

Date: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 4:27PM 

Again, why are you so sad? Cheer up, youre ’ young and virile! 

---------- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , 

Sent: Wednesdav. Septe 

To: Douglas S. Wiley 

Subject: RE: FW: Luck 

thanks...i needed that 

From:- 

To: Lewinsky, ‘ Mbnica, , OSD/PA 

Subject: RE: FW: Luck 

Page 91 
931 

To: mlewinsk 

Subject: Finding Kelly 

Date: Thursday, September 11, 1997 10:53AM 

** High Priority l * 

Hi Monica - I received your scattershot E-mail that meant to find its ’ way 

to K, or maybe meant to record another E-mail address? Anyway, quick 

update: shes ’ left PDX and Oregon (you knew that) arrived safely in 

Pennsylvania, and is now setting up camp. I havent ’ been in touch with 

Ma Davis in 34 days (I was at an administrators ’ retreat in Oregons ’

outback) but she knows Ks ’ address and can be reached at 

r m Also, I believe Kelly will have an office (cubicle) 

and intemet set up fairly soon at Drexel. 

So there it is. Say hi to my close personal friend Alexis (Labor 

Secretary) if you run into her at the ODeon. Have a good one! 

-J 

Lewinsky, Monica, , - 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Lewinsky, Monica, ,- 

Greetings from Muggy Washington, DC! 

Friday, September 12, 1997 9:OOAM 

HELLOOOOOO!!!! 

It was so good to hear form you! 2 kids (and 36 hours of labor for one of them...yes, Jenny deserves a medal)-- 

thats ’ wonderful. Im ’ glad to hear that you are all happy and happy in Scotland! 

Me, well...life is interesting. To catch you up on a few years, I dont ’ know if you knew that I moved to Portland, 

Oregon for my last two years of school. Yes, my Dad agreed to pay for private school at Lewis and Clark 

(because he liked it). I had a wonderful time there and graduated with a BS in Psychology. Portland is a fabulous 

city. I loved living there and have a great circle of friends there. (Actually, Christel is living there now with her 

fiancee.. but Ill ’ get to her later!) 

During my senior year my Mom, brother (who is now a sophmore at Carnegie Mellon), and my moms ’ whole side 

of the family moved to Washington, DC. With the help of a friend of mine, I got an internship at the White House 

for the summer after I graduated. So off I moved to DC. My internship was in the Chief of Staffs office while Leon 

Panetta was there. Towards the end of fall, I secured a position in Legislative Affairs. I had some wonderful 

experiences and some awful ones. I have met the President on several occasions (he actually remembers my 

name)!!! 

About 6 months after I was in Leg. Affs. we had an office shake-up and I moved over to the Pentagon to work for 

the Pentagon Spokesman, Ken Bacon (maybe youve ’ seen him on CNN or something -- he has glasses and 

ALWAYS wears a bow tie!) There have been some plusses and minuses with the job. Plusses: I get to travel 

internationally -- Bosnia, Australia, Japan, etc. ; my boss is great; it is interesting Minuses: LONG hours; 

sometimes its ’ b-o-r-i-n-g; and I miss the White House. 

I have a small circle of friends here and have dated a few guys/men. I learned the hard way not to date anyone in 

the Pentagon, especially if they are a colleague of your boss! Oh, important note, Im ’ not fat anymore!!!! Im ’ not 

skinny...but more...hmmm...womanly? voluptuous than that. So, I do NOT fit into to my clothes from Bel Air Prep. 

Page 104 

833-DC-00015111 
932 

22 June 1997 

Dear Betty: 

Since I have not been able to get in touch with him. I am taking the unorthodox liberty of 

sharing my concerns with you. I would very much appreciate it if you could relay this 

information to him either verbally or by letting him read this note. If you’re not 

comfortable doing either, I understand. 

The intention of this note is not to “tat tle-tale ” , but to clarify. My meeting with Marsha 

was not at all what I expected. While she was very pleasant. she questioned me endlessly 

about my situation. Despite the fact that she already knew why I had to leave, she asked 

me to tell her about it, asked if I had acted “inappropriately ” and why I wanted to come 

back. She seemingly knew nothing about my current position. She didn’t know of any 

openings and said she would check with the people in Communications. He said to me that 

he had told her I had gotten a bum deal, and I should get a good job in the West Wing. I 

was surprised that she would question his judgment and not just do what he asked of her. 

Is it possible that, in fact, he did not tell her that? Does he really not want me back in the 

complex? He has not responded to my note, nor has he called me. Do you know what is 

going on? If so, are you able to share it with me? 

I did not cause any trouble when I had to leave last year because I knew how important the 

election was. He promised me then I could come back after the election, and I have been 

counting on him. I think I have been more than patient since it has now been eight months 

since the election, not to mention the seven months prior to November that I waited. Shall 

I continue to be patient? 

Betty, I am very frustrated and sad. I especially don’t understand this deafening silence, 

lack of response and complete distancing evidenced by him. Why is he ignoring me? I 

have done nothing wrong. I would expect that behavior like this might be directed toward 

an “unfriendly”, but certainly not to me. I would never do anything to hurt him. 

I am hoping to hear from either of you soon. I’m at a loss, and I don’t know what to do. 

Best wishes. 

833-DC-00017649 
933 

Dear Sally: 

Since I have not been able to get in touch with him I am taking the liberty of sharing my 

concerns with you. I would very much appreciate it if you could relay this information to him 

either verbally or by letting him read this note. If you’re not comfortable doing either. I 

understand. 

My meeting with Mary was not at a11 what I expected. While she was very pleasant. she 

questioned me endlessly about my situation. Despite the fact that she already knew why I had to 

leave, she asked me to tell her about it, if I had acted “inappropriately”, why I wanted to come 

back and she seemingly knew nothing about my current position. She didn’t know of any 

openings and said she would check with the people in Communications. He said to me that he 

told her “I had gotten a bum deal, and I should get a good job in the .” I was suprised 

that she would question his judgement and not just do what he asked of her. But then it is also 

possible that he never said that because he really doesn’t want me to come back. 

I did not cause any trouble when I had to leave last year because I knew how important the event 

in the fall was. He promised me then I could come back after the -, and I have been counting 

on him. I think I have been more than patient since it is now 8 months after the not to 

mention the 7 months prior to the . 

Either way, Sally, I am very frustrated and sad. I especially don’t understand why he is ignoring 

me. I would never do anything to hurt him. I don’t know why he wants to hurt me. 

I am hoping to hear from either of you soon. 

Best wishes. 

M 

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1 1-m 
973 
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 

OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL 

1600 DEFEXSE PENTAGON 

WASHINGTOS. DC 20301-1600 

.i?ril 22, 1998 

Bv First Class Mail 

Julie Corcoran, Esq. 

Office of the Independent Counsel 

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. 

Suite 490 -- North 

Washington, D.C. 20003 

Dear Ms. Corcoran: 

I have enclosed herewith some additional materials that are responsive to the 

January 22, 1998 subpoena horn the Office of the Independent Counsel to the Department of 

Defense. These materials were discovered v ken a Department employee cleaned out his office 

in connection with changing his job. 

Thank you for your attention to this r;-,atter. 

Sincerely, 

Enclosures: 

As stated 

833-DC-00018015 
975 

!.lEMORANDUM FOR LARRY CAVAIOIA 

FROM: Cliff Bernath 

DATE: October 19,1994 

SUBJECT: Personnel Problems 

I received the following chronology of events from Linda Tripps ’ supervisors. I 

have had several discussions with MS Tripp, as have Mr. Blacklow, Lynn Reddy 

(Director for Programs and Community Relations) and Celia Hoke (Deputy Director). In 

my conversations, she has been courteous but she definitely feels mistreated and 

seems to expect much more than her co-workers. But the fact is that she has been a 

disruptive force since her arrival and nothing we do seems to assuage her. 

I think its ’ important to note that the Directorate to which she is assigned has the 

highest number of political appointees (including the Director) and, historically, has 

successfully integrated all types of personalities and professional backgrounds into its 

operations. For whatever reason, its ’ not working with Ms. Tripp. Heres ’ just a short 

laundry list of examples of the almost daily discord in the office: 

l Linda arrives for first day of work; doesnt ’ like her office space; dashes off an E-mail 

s?e!Ing i? isn t ‘ what wss pro,mised ‘ ” her. Also makes issue of parking pass. 

l Linda ignores Susan Wallace when she tries to explain how things are done and 

turns her back. Susan suggests introducing Linda to key operatives in 

SecDef/DepSec offices. Linda declines, prefernng to set up her own appointments 

to meet these people on “equal footing.” 

l Director provides list of Media activities to Susan and Linda and asks them to work 

out a division of labor for her approval upon return from leave 

l Mix-up about Lindas ’ personnel papers while Lynns ’ on leave. Linda is rude to 

Deputy Director and writes her a nasty E-Mail accusing her of keeping her persons1 

dots 

l Cliff and Celia decide Susan Wallace should go to WH to assist NSC in monitoring 

Haiti news. Linda writes accusatory E-Mail to Deputy Director, indicating she is 

better qualified than Susan and she is being treated unfairly 

l Linda does OJT with another action officer for hlorning Shows. Arrives at Pentagcn 

at 6:30 am. All goes well. Linda asks Deputy Director about receiving overtime. 

She is told professionals (ES-1 3 to 15) are not normally authorized overtime pay; 

must take camp time. Also told that staying after 500 pm, as necessary, is SOP for 

professional staff 

833-DC-00018016 
976 

833-DC-00018017 

Linda writes E-Mail to FO and DPRC; says DOD cant ’ legally expect staff to stay 

beyond their 8-hour work day without some sort of compensation; anyway, she has 

family responsibilities and needs to leave promptly at 5 pm ( and does, each day, 

exiting the back door so no one knows) 

Linda starts her “best defense is a good offense” tactic; wont ’ speak to co-workers 

or exchange greeting -- unless she needs something, then alls ’ fine 

Linda sends another E-Mail to FO and DPRC Director about her work space; she 

accuses political discrimination as LTCs have more space than she, a political 

appointee GS-15 

Linda and Susan wont ’ work out division of labor and things are difficult about who 

is doing what. Lynn divides Media Responsibilities, giving each some broadcast 

and some print areas. Both unhappy, but after initial complaint, Susan buckles 

down; Linda vents declaring to Susan I ‘ wont ’ do Morning Shows, youll ’ see”; sends 

more E-mail to FO and Lynn stating dissatisfaction. 

Linda vents angrily to Susan on a continuing basis; finally LTC Ogilvie - next 

cubicle -- tells them both the situation is embarrassing, unprofessional, and affects 

him and those nearby in DPC; to cut it out or work it out 

Director asks both Linda and Susan to check out with her each day before leaving 

for final update on media requests; Linda doesnt ’ and wont; ’ says she cant ’ find 

Lynn, or that Lynn should ask Susan since she stays longer, or simply sends Lynn 

an E-mail saying shes ’ leaving 

Linda refuses (not verbally but by practice) to give Director update reports or event 

cards for input before they go to front office or SecDeWDepSec; sends things 

directly-- anything and everything 

Columbus Day weekend: Linda wont ’ answer her phone,thereby requiring Susan to 

come in Sat/Sun/Man to take care of Lindas ’ as well as her responsibilities. On 

Tuesday she says her answering machine is broken 

On Tues, Linda is asked to stay and produce card for Deutch Morning Show. 

Declines because her car is broken and she must take 5:30 bus; can t ‘ stay even to 

prepare event card 

Linda assists DATSD in setting up SecDef Morning Shows from Middle East; leaves 

at 5 pm without providing him an info card to fax to SecDef/ATSD(PA) traveling 

party. Mr. Blacklow calls Linda at home: daughter takes message. At 7pm, 

Blacklow calls back. No answer -- calls Susan to fill in. Next day, Linda says 

daughter forgot to give her Willies ’ message & answering machine still broken. 
977 

Directcr decides to reassign duties since Linda is unwilling -- wont ’ -- make herself 

availabie for Morning shows. Linda doesnt ’ like new division of labor any more than 

the first; sends another nasty E-Mail to FO and Director stating her dissatisfaction 

and claiming discrimination because she is a single parent. 

On Friday, Linda sends Director E-mail stating that shes ’ leaving early because her 

cat is sick - and leaves, without seeing Director, Deputy Director, or saying anything 

to anyone 

Linda a?d Susan were asked to take beepers for weekend. Mr. Blacklow asks 

Linda fcr her beeper number when he sees her at Newsmaker Saturday. Linda 

says she doesnt ’ have one because she doesnt ’ know where to get one 

Essentially, Linda is a GS-15 public affairs officer who: 

l doesnt ’ like her office space 

l doesnt ’ like her duties 

l wont ’ perform her assignments 

l wont ’ do as Lynn asks 

l thinks her responsibilities are only 8:30 -5PM 

l isnt ’ nice to co-workers 

l lends a disruptive manner to the office 

l doesnt ’ want to be here 

The impact of all this has very negatively affected the DPCR office atmosphere 

where AOs previously worked together and helping each other out. Dealing with the 

constant barrage of nasty E-mail is ridiculous, time-consuming and disruptive. 

833-DC-00018018 
978 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

- 

From: 

To: Tripp, Linda, , 

Subject: RE: ihursdays ’ Tick!es 

Date: Monday, November 24, 1997 11: 1 OAM 

Priority: High 

I will respect your wishes to leave you alone, and I apprceiate your finally communicating with me. 

Obviously, I hope that you will eventually decide that we can be friends without having to discuus any of 

this other crap. I will be moved out of the apartment and on my way to NY by the 31st. If you want to 

resume any kind of a friendship before then, I am more than open to it. 

With regard to the presents, simply throw them away. I bought them for you. You know how I am with 

gifts, and that I dont ’ believe in giving them to someone else. 

Take care. 

MSL 

__---__--- 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,m 

To: Lewlnsky, Monica, ,( 

Subject: RE: Thursdays ’ T; e c les 

Date: Monday, November 24, 1997 10:58AM 

Monica: PLEASE give me a break. I have been more than patient with you and I am very worried about 

your state of mind. You are acting in a way that is more than questionable. I tried to make you 

understand those concerns and how your actions might be (would be?) perceived by “them” if you 

continued in that irrational manner. You told me you could do “anything I want to” -- and, of course, you 

are right. I do not have to be a party to it. Lets ’ just drop it. I need a break. The information alone is a 

hefty burden and one I never asked for. The pursuant behavior concerning that information is more than I 

can take. I do not mean to be ungrateful, but I cannot accept gifts, Monica. Sweet as it is, I would prefer 

not to. LRT 

Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 11:05AM 

Priority: High 

To: mlewinsk 

Subject: Thursdays ’ Tickles 

Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 6:40AM 

> 

> l ******************** 

> 

> Why Chocolate Is Better Than Sex!! 

> 

> 1) You can GET chocolate. 

> 

> 21 If you bite the nuts too hard the chocolate wont mind. 

> 

> 31 Chocolate satisfies even when its ’ gone soft. 

> 

> 4) You can safely have chocolate while you are dnving. 

> 

> 5) You can make chocolate last as long as you want 

833-DC-00018045 

Page 1 
I 

979 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: Lewrnsky, Monica, , B 

To: Tripp. Linda, , m 

Subject: RE: DPCR CHRISTMAS F:.RTY!!!!! 

Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 12:19PM 

Priority: High 

Why thank you Ms. Tripp!!!! I accept with pleasure. Will you be my date???? 

Maybe we can get coffee later so i can talk year ear off. 

hear. 

I never got a chance for lunch. Its ’ PSYCHC up 

hugs n’ kisses 

M 

___--_____ 

From: Tripp, Linda, , 

To: Bernath, Cliff, , 

_1_ Lewinsky, 

Subject: FW: DPCR CHRISTMAS PARTY!!!!! 

Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 12:08PM 

Hope that each of you will be able to join in the fun! 

--_-----_- 

From: Tripp, Linda, , _ 

To: GPCR 

Subject: DPCR CHRISTMAS PARTY!!!!! 

Date: Fnday, November 14, 1997 12:04PM 

Note the day on your calendars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . the DPCR Christmas party will be held in the Lobby 

Lounge (Piano Bar) of the Ritz-Calton Hotel in Pentagon City at 5:30 on December 10th. That is, of cod:se, 

the date of the OSD PA party, SO most of you should be primed for further merriment. Our table will ce 

near the fireplace (yes, it will be burntng) in the far right corner of the room as you enter. 

Each of you is asked to bring along one wrapped gift for our traditional exchange -- as many of you w:;i 

remember, our unique gift exchange almost resulted in blows last year 

imagination and keep the cost at no more than $10. 

. . . ..so. use your creativity and 

Speaking of $$$, the cost for ordered-ahead hors doeuvres ’ for the group is $7.50 per head; your drinks 

are on your own. If you invite former co-workers to join us, remember to let them know of the per head 

cost. Please RSVP to Lindsey and turn your money in to her NLT Friday, December 5th ! 

Thanks and Happy Holidays! 

(Roger -- this obviously includes you, as well!!!!!) 

833-DC-00018047 

Page 
980 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: Lewrnsky, Monica, , w 

To: Tnpp, Linda, ,- 

Subject: RE: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: FW: humor]] 

Date: Monday, October 27, 1997 10:29A!,f 

Priority: Htgh 

Thats ’ fine with me, Linda. I will respect that. I would only like to ask that I have your assurance 

everything I have shared with you remains between us. You have given me your word before, but that 

was when we were on good terms. Can I still trust that? 

From: Tripp, Linda, , ___ 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

Subject: RE: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: FW: humor11 

Date: Monday, October 27, 1997 10: 19AM 

From now on, leave me alone. Dont ’ bother me with all your ranting and raving and analyzing of this 

situation. And dont ’ accuse me of somehow “skewing” the truth -- because the reality is that what I told 

you is true. I really am finished, Monica. Share this sick situation with one of your other friends, because, 

frankly, Im ’ past nauseated about the whole thing. LRT 

Date: Friday, October 24, 1997 6:06PM 

Priority: High 

Date: Friday, October 24, 1997 12:21 PM 

> > >The dean of women at an exclusive girls ’ college was lecturing 

> > > her students on sexual morality. 

Page 1 

833-DC-00018048 
981 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: Lewinsky. Monica, , m 

To: 

Subject: 

Trlpp, Lln3a. , _ 

HELP 

Date: Thursday. October 16, 1997 1:34PM 

Priority: High 

< < File Attachment: ML2.DOC > > < C File Attachment: BC2.DOC > > LT- Can you please print these 

out, take a look at them and make any changes (in BOLD) and send it tack to me...PLEASE. Icant ’ escape 

-ight now. I have to have it ali ready to go by 4 pm or so. Thanks. 

Love 

:.1 

833-DC-00018051 

Page 1 
Z3ucation: 

Lewis and Clark College Portland, Oregon 

Bachelor of Sciencs ir: Psychology May 1995 

Esperience: 

Department of Defense The Pentagon \Vashington, D.C. 

Confidential Assistant to the Assistant SecretarT of Defense for Fkblic -Affairs 

_4pril 1996 - present 

Serve as principal a ssistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defer.se (_&SD) for Public Affairs in support cf 

his dual role as both Department of Defense spokesman and head of Department of Defense Public 

.Ufairs. Assist in preparing the ASD for bi-weekly press briefings. Interact with the S.4TIONAL me&a 

>n ‘ the MDs ’ behalf. ProL-ide the ASD with timely updates of current media stories. Act as liaison with the 

offices of the Secretary. the White House, other Cabinet Secretaries and the National Security Council. 

Provide support to the Secretary of Defense and -Assistant Set retarv _ on frequent international travel 

which includes a contingent of traveling media. Handle the -4SD.s daily schedule and correspondence. 

The White House 11_ashington, D.C. 

Staff _-Issistant to Director of Legislative Affairs Correspontier,c<. November 1995 - April 1996 

Wrote drafts and correspondence for Staff Secretarys ’ approval and ultimately the Presidents ’

signature. which often required research of various .4dministra:ion issues and policies. Coordinated 

mass mailings to Congress for the President and other Senior -Administration officials. Processed and 

vetted all incoming mail to the President from Congress. Trained and supervised new interns on White 

House procedure and preparation of White House correspondence. 

The White House 11*ashington, D.C. 

Summer Intern Office of the Chief of Staff, Summer 1995 0VSSN”T THIS LONGER?????) 

Drafted form letters and individual responses for the Chief of Staffs signature. Acted as a liaison for 

Chief of Staffs office to other White House offices, Cabinet agencies, and Congressional offices. 

Updated office manual. Supervised and coordinated intern and volunteer staff. 

Metropolitan Public Defenders Portland, Oregon 

Alternatives Staff. February - May 1995 

Implemented new psychology expert reference techniques. -4ssisted attorneys in finding viable 

alternatives to prison for their clients. Directed clients in successful search for support, shelter, food 

and transportation. Updated files on resource materials. 

Southeast Mental Health Network (Practicum) Portland. Oregon 

Socialization Staff_-lssistant, January - June 1991 

Xssisted staff in teaching socialization skills to mentally ill clients to ease their integration back into 

society. Updated client s’ confidential reports. Coordinated fund raising to benefit extra-curricular 

theatre activities. 

-Additional Information: 833-DC-00018052 

l TS-SC1 Clearance: Current 

9 Proficient in Macintosh for Microsoft Word 6.0, \VordPerfec: i:r 1Yindows 5.2, Quorum. and Infosv.= 
983 

First and foremost, thank you for helping me. 

My dream had been to work in Communications or Strategic Planning at the 

Wrhite House. I am open to any suggestions that you may have on lvork that is 

similar in scope or direction. 

It is important to me that I be engaged and challenged in rn>- lvork; that I not 

be someones ’ administrative executive assistant; and that m>- salary provide 

me a comfortable living in NY-. 

I have enclosed my resume. [Tab l] 

Networks: 

* Assistant producer at any of the networks 

* Kaplan -- CNN N?’’ Bureau 

* News/political segments at MTV 

Assistant to an account executive at any of the following 

(not administrative assistant): 

* Hill & Knowlton 

* Burson-Marsteller 

* Downey & Chandler 

* Bozell Public Relations/ Bozell Worldwide 

* Devries Public Relations 

[ These are major agencies with which I am familiar. You may have more 

suggestions from the attached list of agencies in NY (Tab 2)]. 

A note about the UN: 

The idea of working at the UN does not appeal to me. As a result of what 

happened in April 96, ‘ I have already spent a year and a half at an agency 

which was not in my area of interest. I want a job where I feel challenged and 

engaged. I dont ’ think it is the right place for me. 

Salary: 

While my current salary as a GS-9 step 2 is S32,736, my research shows that 

my counterparts at the Pentagon are al2 GS- 12s ’ with salary levels ranging 

833-DC-00018053 
984 

$45,939 - $59,725 depending upon their step number. (It is a mystec to me 

too why. I am not a GS-12 n-hen we all perform the same duties!) Therefore, I 

do not think it inappropriate to request a saIq of $65,000. My friends in IL? 

have advised me that living expenses are high. Its ’ impor+ant to have an 

adequate salary. [Tab 3) 

Another note: Ihope you will understand when I say I prefer that Marsha 

not be involved in this endeavor. Please respect that. 

Again, thanks for everything. 

833-DC-00018054 
985 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Date: 

Priority: High 

Paula Jones, 2nd Ld-Writethru, a0704.0524 

Dallas firm takes Paula Jones case; conservative institute will 

raise funds 

Eds: LEADS with 10 grafs to UPDATE with quote from new lawyers, who 

say they are not interested in settling out of court, delete 

extraneous word who ‘ ’ in 8th graf pvs. Picks up 9th graf pvs, 

Asked ‘ about.... ‘

AP Photo 

By DARA AKIKO TOM = 

Associated Press Writer = 

SAN MARINO, Calif. (Al? Paula Jones announced today she kvill 

fight her sex harassment lawsuit against President Clinton with 

lawyers from Dallas and money raised by a conservative organization 

in Virginia. And the lawyers said they are not interested in 

settling out of Court. 

Mrs. Jones stood with her spokeswoman, Susan Carpenter-McMillan, 

for the announcement and made only brief comments. 

’ *Im ’ excited about the future. Why should I be scared?” Mrs. 

Jones sard. 

She will be represented by the Dallas firm of Rader, Campbell, 

Fisher & Pyke. Her previous lawyers, Joe Cammarata and Gilben 

Davis, recently withdrew from the case after years of work. 

In a statement, the new lawyers said they were * retained ‘ as 

litigation counsel, not as special settlement counsel. . . . We 

intend to vigorously prepare it for trial.” 

In a court of law, there are no presidents and no plebeians 

all parties are equal in the eyes of justice,” the statement said. 

The spokeswoman said the new lawyers chose the conservative 

Rutherford institute of Charlottesville, Va., for fund-raising 

after Mrs. Jones made it clear she could not afford to pay. 

’ This ‘ law firm is willing to go to trial. . . . Thats ’ what Paula 

has always wanted,” Carpenter-McMillan said. 

The Rutherford Institute describes itself as a nonprofit legal 

and educational organization that specializes ’ in ‘ the defense of 

religious liberty and human rights.” 

It has taken the cases of a Virginia schoolboy whose teachers 

barred him from bringing Rush Limbaugh books to class and a woman 

who was not allowed to place a nativity scene outside a Fairfax 

County, Va ., government building. 

Asked about Mrs. Jones’ new lawyers and the conservative 

financtng for her case, White House press secretary Mike McCurry 

said, ’ ’ I dont ’ think thats ’ particularly surprising. But as to who 

she selects as her legal representation, thats ’ a matter for her to 

decide.” 

Mrs. Jones claims Clinton exposed himself to her while he was 

Arkansas governor and she worked for a state economic office. The 

encounter allegedly occurred in May 1991 in a Little Rock, Ark., 

hotel room. 

Clinton denies her allegations. The trial is set to begin in 

May. 

Cammarata and Davis withdrew from the case Sept. 8 after 

disagreement wrth Mrs. Jones over a settlement. 

They recently served notice that they hold a lien for $800,000 

in hourly fees if Mrs. Jones is awarded attorneys fees in any 

settlement or court resolution of her suit. 

833-DC-00018055 

Page 1 
986 

Carpenter-MC?. #ian said P.!rs. Jones wouid only settle ’ C,lnton 

put cly apologizes. 

It ‘ has to be ciear that she did nothing wrong,” 

CarEenter-McMilian said. ’ . He cant ’ spin i: as if he were z sklng 

his Teeth with a :oothpick.” 

AP“/- 1 O-01 -97 1545EDT 

Cocvrlght (c) 1997 The Associated Press 

Rece,ved by Ne?*lsEDGEILAN: 10/l/97 3:45 PM 

833-DC-00018056 

Page 2 
987 

ltripp (Working Offiine) 

From: 

To: 

Date: 

Priority: 

~~- -__. __- 

Mcyday, Seerember 29, 1991 7 1 : 1 OAM 

HIS7 

Tomorrow is his last day in the bullding. They WI:: ke back at Patton, Boggs on Wednesday. The address 

IS 2550 M St., NW Was?. DC 20037 phone # is 202.457.6000. L, his assistant who is really nice is 

named Bonnie. I might sdggest hand delivering a !ener tq her tomorrow and casually saying Monica in Mr. 

Bacons ’ office speaks b, ;nly of you or something :o that effectt. Of course, you dont ’ have to Use your 

best judgement! 

MSL 

833-DC-00018057 

Page 1 
988 

Dear Sally: 

Since I have not been able to get in touch with him I am taking the unorthodox liberty of sharing 

my concerns with you. I would very much appreciate it if you could relay this information to 

him either verbally or by letting him read this note. If you’re not comfortable doing either. I 

understand. 

My meeting with Tv1at-y was not at all what I expected. While she vx.as very pleasant, she 

questioned me endlessly about my situation. Despite the fact that she already knew why I had to 

leave, she asked me to tell her about it, asked if I had acted “inappropriately” and why I wanted 

to come back. She seemingly knew nothing about my current position. She didn’t know of any 

openings and said she would check with the people in Communications. He said to me that he 

told her “I had gotten a bum deal, and I should get a good job in the .” I was suprised 

that she would question his judgement and not just do what he asked of her. This is what he told 

me. Is it possible that, in fact, this is not the case ? Does he really not want me back in the 

complex? He has not responded to my note, nor has he called me. Do you know what is going 

on? If so, are you able to share it with me? 

I did not cause any trouble when I had to leave last year because I knew how important the event 

in the fall was. He promised me then I could come back after the _, and I have been counting 

on him. I think I have been more than patient since it is now 8 months after the not to 

mention the 7 months prior to the . Shall I continue to be patient? 

Either way, Sally, I am very frustrated and sad. I especially don’t understand this deafening 

silence, lack of response and complete distancing evidenced by him. Why is he ignoring me? I 

have done nothing wrong. Nothing to deserve treatment of this nature. I would expect behavior 

like this might be directed toward an “unf%endly”, certainly not to me. I would never do 

anything to hurt him. 

I am hoping to hear from either of you soon. I’m at a loss and I don’t know what to do. 

Best wishes. 

M 

833-DC-00018060 
989 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

from: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: 

letter 

Monday, June 23, 1997 1: 17PM 

High 

< <File Attachment: doc2.doc > > 

833-DC-00018061 

Page 1 
990 

Dear Sally: 

Since I have not been able to get in touch ivith him I am taking the unusual liberty of sharing my 

concerns with you. I would very much appreciate it if you could relay this information to him 

either verbally or by letting him read this note. If you’re not comfortable doing either, I 

understand. 

bly meeting nith Mary was not at all whar I expected. While she u.as very pleasant, she 

questioned me endlessly about my situation. Despite the fact that she already knew why I had to 

lea\.e, she asked me to tell her about it, asked if I had acted “inappropriately” and why I wanted 

to come back. She seemingly knew nothing about my current position. She didn’t know of any 

openings and said she would check with the people in Communications. He said to me that he 

told her “I had gotten a bum deal, and I should get a good job in the .” I was suprised 

that she would question his judgement and not just do what he asked of her. This is what he told 

me. Is it possible that, in fact, this is not the case ? Does he really not want me back in the 

complex? He has not responded to my note, nor has he called me. Do you know what is going 

on? If so, are you able to share it with me? 

As now all of you are aware, I interviewed for a desirable position in the on -- 

‘s immediate staff. Despite the facr. that my resume and relevant experience excited them 

prior to my interview, and despite the fact that they have had trouble filling this labor intensive 

slot, I was not selected. The position is still open. Am I missing something? 

I did not cause any trouble when I had to leave last year because I lmew how important the event 

in the fall was. He promised me then I could come back after the , and I have been counting 

on him. I think I have been more than patient since it is now 8 months after the not to 

mention the 7 months prior to the . Shall I continue to be patient? 

Either way, Sally, I am very fiustrated and sad. I especially don’t understand why he is ignoring 

me. I have done nothing wrong. Nothing to desen;e treatment of this nature. This deafening 

silence, lack of response and complete distancing evidenced by and the disingenuous 

“assistance” from M, are behaviors I would expect might be directed toward an “unfriendly”, 

certainly not to me. I would never do anything to hurt him. I don’t know what to do. 

I am hoping to hear from either of you soon. 

Best wishes. 

833-DC-00018062 

M 
__; ‘7 

i:) 

991 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,e 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,_ 

Subject: mornin’ 

Date: Tuesday, March 11, 1997 8: 1 OAM 

Priority: High 

O.K. So I got your letters that came in to Mr. B at 5:15 pm signed last night! Id ’ say you owe me, but its ’

more like Im ’ paying you back! Id ’ love to have lunch if you can to ay. Lots ’ to kibbitz about. (well 

nothmg too interesting). im ’ so annoyed that i dont ’ know if 

well, maybe it’ better if i dont ’ know. WRITE BACK. msl 

9, is comin’ home or not tonight. Oh, 

833-DC-00018063 

Page 1 
992 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: Lewlnsky, Monica 

To: Tripp, Linda, , 

Subject: 

,Illllrr 

howdy 

Date: Thursday, March 06, 1997 9:24AM 

Priority: High 

Hi, there, o.k. stupid point to make but i figured out that the he Betty did call on V-Day because her boss 

was in NY on Tuesday, the other day I was out of town. Unless of course, she called Thursday evening 

here. But still, its ’ sweet. I guess I would have seen him on V-Day. Oh, I also wanted to tell you about 

thetie thing.... he didn;t wear the tie I sent him for his B-day for, i think, three weeks. so well ’ see. whats ’

your day like? msl 

833-DC-00018064 

Page 1 
993 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Lewinsky, Monica 

Tripp, Linda, , 

RE: ht. ya 

Wednesday. March 05. 1997 12:53PM 

Since I, obviously, have nothing to do today, i will take it upon myself to be your keeper and make sure 

you get to the CU before 3 pm so that you may see your boyfriend, the Bus Driver, later!!!! Ill ’ bug you 

later.msI 

__________ 

From: Tripp, Linda 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, -SW , 

Subject: RE: hi, ya 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 12:44PM 

I should be able to do coffee later, because I MUST go to the credit union before 3 to cash a check, or I 

will be walking home . . . . . . ..I do this all the time, and run out of money because I forget to write checks so 

that I have money around, and its ’ because its ’ so nuts around here these days that the time totally gets 

away from me. I overslept (sheer exhaustion) and look like 

words, much, much worse than usual. Plus, I am having a 

mess.. . . . . . . you’ll look like Ms. Universe next to me, be rest 

_---______ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica 

To: Tripp, Linda, , m 

_ 

Subject:. RE: hi, ya 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 11:47AM 

Remind me to come to you when i feel good more often (ha-ha-ha)! In fact, maybe if i come bug you later 

youll ’ make me feel better about looking so GROSS today. The highlight of my appearance today being the 

vlocano zit i have on my cheek. Hmmm . ..attractive! Im ’ bored. Would you like to go for coffee later? I 

know youre ’ busy these days so I wont ’ be offended if you cant. ’ buh-bye msl 

_*________ 

From: Tripp, Linda 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ..=. , 

Subject: RE: hi, ya 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 11:34AM 

Are you asking me if the tie if really pretty? It is positively gorgeous. 

but from my exposure to you, I am developing an interest. 

I am knot (ha!) particularly into ties, 

Yours was stupendous, no kidding, clean, crisp, 

texture, color, pattern, bright, without being at all over the top.....a total hit. 

_.________ 

From: Lewinsky, 

To: Tripp, Linda, , 

Subject: hi, ya 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 10:05AM 

Priority: High 

Boy, I look so scary today. People might think that I thought it was Halloween. Oh, well. r_ should 

iif Betty is nice) get my tie today. I sure hope he like s it. make me feel better and tell me its ’ really 

pretty, o.k.? msl 

833-DC-OCU18065 

Page 1 
994 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Subject: RE: coffee break 

Date: Tuesday, March 04, 1997 1:21 PM 

believe me it is not that funny. just not a good idea to e-mail it. hope to c u 18r.msl 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,w 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

Subject: RE: coffee break 

Date: Tuesday, March 04, 1997 1: 18PM 

Unfair to make me wait. However, I may be able to get out of here around 3 or so, I really need a break. 

Ill ’ let you know. 

__________ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , m 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,W 

Subject: coffee break 

Date: Tuesday, March 04, 1997 12:54PM 

Priority: High 

hi. its ’ me your loyal freak. i forgot to tell you something mildly amusing...mildly. maybe we can escape 

for coffee later? does your sched permit? (ill ’ tell you the funny then) msl 

833-DC-00018066 

Page 1 
995 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: 

Lewinsky, Monica 

Tripp, Linda, , 

Im ’ back! 

meWednesday, February 19, 1997 8:09AM 

High 

LRT--- Hi, I missed you!!!! I hope you enjoyed your few days of sanity wrth me gone because Im ’ back and 

NOT in good spirits. 

1. I have a small present for you. Everything was SO0000 expensive so Im ’ sorry its ’ small. 

2. Nice that the Big Creep didnt ’ even try to call me on V-day and he didnt ’ know for sure that I was going 

to London. 

3. He could have called last night and didnt. ’ He was out of town. 

4. Finally, -went away and it was the same night he was gone. 

HHHEEELLPPP!!!! 

me!!!! 

Maybe we can have lunch or meet sometime today cuz I want to give you your present. 

Bye...msl 

833-DC-00018070 

Page 1 
996 

mlewinsk (Working Offline) 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , m 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,m 

Date: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 3:57PM 

Priority: High 

Paula Jones, 2nd Ld-Writethru, a0704.0524 

Dallas firm takes Paula Jones case; conservative institute will 

raise funds 

Eds: LEADS with 10 grafs to UPDATE with quote from new lawyers, who 

say they are not interested in settling out of court, delete 

extraneous word who ‘ ’ in 8th graf pvs. Picks up 9th graf pvs, 

Asked ‘ about.... ‘

AP Photo 

By DARA AKIKO TOM = 

Associated Press Writer = 

SAN MARINO, Calif. (AP) Paula Jones announced today she will 

fight her sex harassment lawsuit against President Clinton with 

lawyers from Dallas and money raised by a conservative organization 

in Virginia. And the lawyers said they are not interested in 

settling out of court. 

Mrs. Jones stood with her spokeswoman, Susan Carpenter-McMillan, 

for the announcement and made only brief comments. 

* *Im ’ excited about the future. Why should I be scared?” Mrs. 

Jones said. 

She will be represented by the Dallas firm of Rader, Campbell, 

Fisher & Pyke. Her previous lawyers, Joe Cammarata and Gilbert 

Davis, recently withdrew from the case after years of work. 

ln a statement, the new lawyers said they were a retained ‘ as 

litigation counsel, not as special settlement counsel. . . . We 

intend to vigorously prepare it for trial.” 

* *In a court of law, there are no presidents and no plebeians 

all parties are equal in the eyes of justice,” the statement said. 

The spokeswoman said the new lawyers chose the conservative 

Rutherford Institute of Charlottesville, Va., for fund-raising 

after Mrs. Jones made it clear she could not afford to pay. 

a This ‘ law firm is willing to go to trial. . . . Thats ’ what Paula 

has always wanted,” Carpenter-McMillan said. 

The Rutherford Institute describes itself as a nonprofit legal 

and educational organization that specializes ’ in ‘ the defense of 

religious liberty and human rights.” 

It has taken the cases of a Virginia schoolboy whose teachers 

barred him from bringing Rush Limbaugh books to class and a woman 

who was not allowed to place a nativity scene outside a Fairfax 

County, Va., government building. 

Asked about Mrs. Jones’ new lawyers and the conservative 

financing for her case, White House press secretary Mike McCurry 

said, * *I dont ’ think thats ’ particularly surprising. But as to who 

she selects as her legal representation, thats ’ a matter for her to 

decide.” 

Mrs. Jones claims Clinton exposed himself to her while he was 

Arkansas governor and she worked for a state economic office. The 

encounter allegedly occurred in May 1991 in a Little Rock, Ark., 

hotel room. 

Clinton denies her allegations. The trial is set to begin in 

May. 

Cammarata end Davis withdrew from the case Sept. 8 after 

disagreement with Mrs. Jones over a settlement. 

They recently served notice that they hold a lien for $800,000 

in hourly fees if Mrs. Jones is awarded attorneys fees in any 

settlement or court resolution of her suit. 

Page 1 

833-DC-00018074 
997 

-cs to oe clea’ :na: snt z ; nothing wrong,” 

Carpek:er-McMdlan said. 

his teeth with a toothpck.” 

lie CiT\t ‘ spin It as If he were p!cklng 

APTV- I O-01 -97 1545EDT 

Copyright (c) 1997 The Associated Press 

Received by NewsEDGEILAN: 10 1197 3:45 PM 

833-DC-00018075 

Page 2 
998 

mlewinsk (Working Offline) 

From: Lewinskv, Monica, ,danrpI 

To: Tripp, Linda, , m 

Subject: HELP 

Date: Thursdav, October 16, 1997 7:34PM 

Pnority: ’ High 

< <File Attachment: ML2.DOC > > < < File Attachment: BC2.DOC> > LT- Can you please print these 

out, take a look at them and make any changes (in BOLD) and send it back to me...PLEASE, Icant ’ escape 

righ: now. 1 have to have it all ready to go bv 4 pm or so. Thanks. 

Cove 

M 

833-DC-00018076 

Page 1 
999 

Monica 5. Lewnsky 

Education: 

Lewis and Clark College Portland, Oregon 

Bachelor of Science in Psychology May 1995 

833-DC-00018077 

Experience: 

Department of Defense The Pentagon Washington, D.C. 

Confidential Assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs 

April 1996 - present 

Serve as principal assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense (ASD) for Public Affairs in support of 

his dual role as both Department of Defense spokesman and head of Department of Defense Public 

_Affairs. Assist in preparing the ASD for bi-weekly press brie6ngs. Interact with the NATIONAL media 

on the ASDs ’ behalf. Provide the ASD with timely updates of current media stories. Act as liaison with the 

offices of the Secretary, the White House, other Cabinet Secretaries and the National Security Council. 

Provide support to the Secretary of Defense and -4ssistant Secretary on frequent international travel 

which includes a contingent of traveling media. Handle the ASDs ’ daily schedule and correspondence. 

The White House Washington, D.C. 

Staff Assistant to Director of Legislative Affairs Correspondence, November 1995 - April 1996 

Wrote drafts and correspondence ror Staff Secretarys ’ approval and ultimately the Presidents ’

signature, which often required research of various Administration issues and policies. Coordinated 

mass mailings to Congress for the President and other Senior Administration officials. Processed and 

vetted all incoming mail to the President from Congress. Trained and supervised new interns on White 

House procedure and preparation of White House correspondence. 

The White House Washington, D.C. 

Summer Intern Office of the Chief of Staff, Summer 1995 (WASNT ’ THIS LOKGER?????) 

Drafted form letters and individual responses for the Chief of Staffs signature. Acted as a liaison for 

Chief of Staffs office to other White House offices, Cabinet agencies, and Congressional offices. 

Updated office manual. Supervised and coordinated intern and volunteer staff. 

Metropolitan Public Defenders Portland, Oregon 

Alternatives Staff, February - May 1995 

Implemented new psychology expert reference techniques. Assisted attornevs in finding viable 

alternatives to orison for their clients. Directed clients in successful search for support, shelter, food 

and transportation. Updated files on resource materials. 

Southeast Mental Health Network (Practicum) Portland, Oregon 

Socialization Staff Assistant, January - June 1994 

Assisted staff in teaching socialization skills to mentally ill clients to ease their integration back into 

society. Updated clients’ confidential reports. Coordinated fund raising to benefit extra-curricular 

theatre activities. 

.\dditional Information: 

l TS-SCI Clearance: Current 

l Proficient in Macintosh for &Iicrosoft Word 6.0. ii-ordperfect for Windows 5.2. Quorum, and Infosvs 
First and foremost, thank you for helping me. 

My dream had been to work in Communications or Strategic Planning at the 

1000 

White House. I am open to any suggestions that you may have on work that is 

similar in scope or direction. 

It is important to me that I be engaged and challenged in my work; that I not 

be someones ’ administrative/executive assistant; and that my salary provide 

me a comfortable living in NY. 

I have enclosed my resume. [Tab l] 

Networks: 

l Assistant producer at any of the networks 

l Kaplan -- CNN NY Bureau 

* News/political segments at MTV 

Assistant to an account executive at any of the following 

(not administrative assistant): 

_q 

l Hill & Knowlton 

* Burson-Marsteller 

* Downey & Chandler 

* Bozell Public Relations/ Bozell Worldwide 

* .Devries Public Relations 

8%X-0001 8078 

[ These are major agencies with which I am familiar. You may have more 

suggestions from the attached list of agencies in NY (Tab 2)]. 

A note about the UN: 

The idea of working at the UN does not appeal to me. As a result of what 

happened in April 96, ‘ I have already spent a year and a half at an agency 

which was not in my area of interest. I want a job where I feel challenged and 

engaged. I dont ’ think it is the right place for me. 

Salary: 

While my current salary as a GS-9 step 2 is $32,736, my research shows that 

my counterparts at the Pentagon are all GS- 12s ’ with salary levels ranging 
1001 

s45,g39 - $59,725 depending upon their step number. (It is a mystery to me 

;oo why I am not a GS- 12 when we all perform the same duties!) Therefore, I 

to not think it inappropriate to request a salary of $65,000. My friends in NY 

have advised me that living expenses are high. Its ’ important to have an 

a.dequate salary. [Tab 31 

Another note: I hope you will understand when I say I prefer that Marsha 

not be involved in this endeavor. Please respect that. 

Again, thanks for everything. 

833-DC-00018079 
1002 

r roni. 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Priority: 

iz V. ’ _’ . 

TrlpD, L:naa. -‘’ %bar- , 

RE: !Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: FW: hrrmorll 

Moncay, October 27, 1997 rO:29AM 

High 

Thats ’ fine WI:? me, Linaa. I will respect that. I would only like IO ask that I have your assurance 

everythrng I have shared with you remains between us. you have given me your word before, but that 

was when we were on good terms. Can I still trust that? 

__________ 

From: Tripp, Linda, , _ 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , __ 

Subject: RE: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: FW: humor]) 

Date: Monday, October 27, 1997 10: 19AM 

From now on, leave me alone. Dont ’ bother me with all your ranting and raving and analyzing of this 

situation. And dont ’ accuse me of somehow “skewing” the truth -- because the reality is that what I told 

you is true. I really am finished, Monica. Share this sick situation with one of your other friends, because, 

frankly, Im ’ past nauseated about the whole thing. LRT 

d: FW: humor11 

Date: Friday, tober 24, 1997 6:06PM _ 

Priority: High 

______-__ 

From: Michelle Ly 

OSDIPA”; Barbara & Bernie Lewinsky 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>>>--_--_-----_ 

> > >The dean of women at 

> > > her students on sexual 

833-DC-00018080 

an exclu ve ‘ girls ’

2 ‘

morality. 

college was lecturing 

Page 1 
1003 

mlewinsk (Working Offline) 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

To: 

Subject: 

Tripp, Linda, , _ 

HELP 

Date: Thursday, October 16, 1997 1:34PM 

Priority: High 

< <File Attachment: ML2.DOC> > < <File Attachment: BC2.DOC > > LT- Can you please print these 

out, take a look at them and make any changes (in BOLD) and send it back to me...PLEASE. Icant ’ escape 

right now. I have to have it all ready to go by 4 pm or so. Thanks. 

Love 

M 

833-DC-00018082 

Page 1 
1004 

Monica S. Lewinsky 

Education: 

Lewis and Clark College Portland, Oregon 

Bachelor of Science in Psychology May 1995 

Experience: 

833-DC-00018083 

Department of Defense The Pentagon Washington, D.C. 

Confidential Assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs 

April 1996 - present 

Serve as principal assistant to the .&.sistant Secretary of Defense (ASD) for Public Affairs in support ci 

his dual role as both Department of Defense spokesman and head of Department of Defense Public 

Affairs. Assist in preparing the ASD for bi-weekly press briefings. Interact with the NATIONAL me&a 

on the ASDs ’ behalf. Provide the ASD with timely updates of current media stories. Act as liaison with tte 

offices of the Secretary, the White House, other Cabinet Secretaries and the National Security Council 

Provide support to the Secretary of Defense and _&sistant Secretary on frequent international travel 

which includes a contingent of traveling media. Handle the ASDs ’ daily schedule and correspondence. 

The White House Washington, D.C. 

Staff Assistant to Director of Legislative Affairs Correqondence. November 1995 - April 1996 

Wrote drafts and correspondence for Staff Secretarys ’ approval and ultimately the Presidents ’

signature; which often required research of various Administration issues and policies. Coordinated 

mass mailings to Congress for the President and other Senior Administration officials. Processed and 

vetted all incoming mail to the President from Congress. Trained and supervised new interns on White 

House procedure and preparation of White House correspondence. 

The White House Washington, D.C. 

Summer Intern Office of the Chief of Staff, Summer 1995 (WASNT ’ THIS LONGER?????) 

Drafted form letters and individual responses for the Chief of Staffs signature. Acted as a liaison for 

Chief of Staffs office to other White House offices, Cabinet agencies, and Congressional offices. 

Updated office manual. Supervised and coordinated intern and volunteer staff. 

Metropolitan Public Defenders Portland, Oregon 

Alternatikes Staff, February - May 1995 

Implemented new psychology expert reference techniques. -Assisted attornevs in finding viable 

alternatives to prison for their clients. Directed clients in successful search for support, shelter, food 

and transportation. Updated tiles on resource materials. 

Southeast Mental Health Network (Practicum) Portland, Oregon 

Socializatiou Staff Assistant, January - June 1994 

Assisted staff in teaching socialization skills to mentally ill clients to ease their integration back into 

society. Updated clients’ confidential reports. Coordinated fund raising to benefit extra-curricular 

theatre activities. 

-Additional Information: 

l TS-SCI Clearance: Current 

l Proficient in llacintosh for blicrosoft \Vord 6.0. CVordPerfect for Windows 5.3. Quorum, and Infos;:3. 
1005 

First and foremost, thank you for helping me. 

My dream had been to work in Communications or Strategic Planning at the 

White House. I am open to any suggestions that you may have on work that is 

similar in scope or direction. 

It is important to me that I be engaged and challenged in my work; that I not 

be someones ’ administrative/executive assistant; and that my salary provide 

me a comfortable living in NY. 

I have enclosed my resume. [Tab 1] 

Networks: 

* Assistant producer at any of the networks 

* Kaplan -- CNN NY Bureau 

* News/political segments at MTV 

Assistant to an account executive at any of the following 

(not administrative assistant): 

* Hill & Knowlton 

* Burson-Marsteller 

* Downey & Chandler 

* Bozell Public Relations/ Bozell Worldwide 

* Devries Public Relations 

833-DC-oooI8084 

[ These are major agencies with which I am familiar. You may have more 

suggestions from the attached list of agencies in NY (Tab 2)]. 

A note about the UN: 

The idea of working at the UN does not appeal to me. As a result of what 

happened in April 96, I have already spent a year and a half at an agency 

which was not in my area of interest. I want a job where I feel challenged and 

engaged. I dont ’ think it is the right place for me. 

Salary: 

While my current salary as a GS-9 step 2 is $32,736, my research shows that 

my counterparts at the Pentagon are all GS- 12s ’ with salary levels ranging 
1006 

$45,939 - S59,725 depending upon their step number. (It is a mystery to me 

too why I am not a GS- 12 when we all perform the same duties!) Therefore, I 

do not think it inappropriate to request a salq of $65,000. My friends in NY 

have advised me that living expenses are high. Its ’ important to have an 

adequate salary. [Tab 31 

Another note: I hope you will understand when I say I prefer that Marsha 

not be involved in this endeavor. Please respect that. 

Again, thanks for everything. 
1007 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: Tripp, Linda, , _ 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , m 

Subject: RE: tie 

Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 10:54AM 

Wonder if this was an associative choice -- i.e., Betty, phone call, tie today........whaddya think? I think a 

strong possibility . . . . . . . . which may mean some action. LRT 

-_______-- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , __ 

To: Tripp, Linda, , s 

Subject: tie 

Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 9:56AM 

Priority: High 

it 

is wearing the secret tie I gave him -- the bright, blue and white one. I hope he chokes wearing 

love 

msl 

Page 1 
1008 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,m 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , 0 

Subject: RE: I forgot 

Date: Tuesday, February 04, 1997 9: 17AM 

I think I saw the tie briefly on a clip last night -- is it predominantly blue from a distance? Whats ’ going on? 

Hows ’ the mood? LRT 

_____----- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,m 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,m 

Subject: RE: I forgot 

Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 11:06AM 

Priority: High 

This sounds perfect. And re: the tie, boy you sure are pulling teeth to try to make me happy. Thanx!!!!! 

So, Ill ’ meet you at the bridge at 12:OO. 

msl 

_____----- 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,B 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,_ 

Subject: RE: I forgot 

Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 10:BBAM 

Yeah, maybe lunch time. I have a I:15 meeting in Willies ’ office, so if we go right at 12, then I can go 

straight to your office for the staff meeting. 

_____--___ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,c 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,F 

Subject: RE: I forgot 

Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 9:23AM 

Priority: High 

I am here physically, but certainly not mentally. I would love to get away for a few years... uh... I mean 

minutes (ha-ha). If not coffee, maybe you want to meet me for lunch. Although I must warn you that I am 

horrible company today. I read that - is going away next week on domestic trips to promote her 

lame-! Gee, hopefully it will be after I have already left for London. I wonder if Betty will call or not? 

Let me know when you want to go, I want to hear more about your dream. Maybe Ill ’ have to start living 

vicariously through your dreams!!!!! 

msl 

_____---__ 

From: Tripp, Linda, , I, 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

Subject: RE: I forgot 

833-DC-00018092 

Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 9:08AM 

Good morning. Are you there today? Just checking. Between reading that book you loaned me 

(unadulterated trash, how very fitting . . . ..I and our conversations, I swear, I had a dream featuring you and 

the big creep. Nothing spectacular, just conversation in the Roosevelt Room. Bizarre. Maybe we can get 

away for a few minutes for coffee or something. LRT 

__________ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,B 

To: Tripp. Linda, ,w 

Subject: I forgot 

Date: Thursday, January 30, 1997 4:39PM 

Priority: High 

I dont ’ know if youll ’ get this, but I forgot to tell you that when i got home from dinner last night I had a 

Page 1 
1009 

call log from an “unavailable” number. Usually my dad, etc. leave messages but who knows. also, he was 

supposed to go to a dinner @ 7:30 so Im ’ not sure who it might have been. oh, well 

love you 

msl 

833-DC-00018093 

Page 2 
1010 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

1 

From: Tripp, Linda, , _ 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

Subject: RE: Afternoon 

Date: Tuesday, February 04, 1997 2:55PM 

None of the above, if you ask me. Because, none of it makes sense. Do no: despair, there is most 

definitely light at the end of this tunnel. LRT 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,_ 

To: Tr:pp, Linda, ,m 

Subject: RE: Afternoon 

Date: Tuesday, February 04, 1997 2:15PM 

Priority: High 

Thank God for you! Oh Linda, i dont ’ know what I am going to do. I just dont ’ understand what went 

wrong, what happened? How could he do this to me ? Why did he keep up contact with me for so long 

and now nothing, now when we could be together? Maybe it was the intrigue of wanting something he 

couldnt ’ have (easily) with all that was going on then? Maybe he wanted to insure he could have variety 

and phone sex while he was on the road for those months? AAAAHHHHH!!!!! I am going to lose it! And, 

where IS Bettys ’ phone call? Whats ’ up with all this #? oh, well. bye. 

msl 

-___--- 

From: Tripp, Linda, , m 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,_ 

Subject: Afternoon 

Date: Tuesday, February 04, 1997 2:06PM 

Priority: High 

Just checking in, its ’ been a nutty day so I havent ’ had much chance to see you. I had to go up to the 

third floor and drop off some paperwork, so I actually walked the entire E-ring, which took I5 minutes. 

spend tons of time in Harrods, ’ spend time on Fleet Street and down in the Silver Vaults, putter around 

Ponebello Road, and shop til I dropped !! I would have high tea every day even if I had to skip real meats. I 

used to spend all my summers in Europe as a kid, and would sneak over to London whenever I could, 

always by myself, when I was about 16. Back then (Im ’ dating myself!!!) you could buy the all time BEST 

fish and chips from these little holes in the wall, wrapped in newspaper !! It was one of the best things I 

had ever eaten. 

LRT 

833-DC-00018094 

Page 1 
1011 

ltripp Working Offline) 

From: Tripp, Linda, , m 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , __ 

Subject: RE: HELP 

Date: Friday, February 07, 1997 2:34PM 

Already did, she is not in today, and not at home either. I can try her over the weekend, but I think its ’

likely I wont ’ get to her before Sunday night, because if I remember correctly, we was flying home to 

Massachusetts for her Mothers ’ birthday. 

__________ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , __ 

To: Tripp, Linda, , I 

Subject: HELP 

Date: Friday, February 07, 1997 1:26PM 

Priority: High 

Would you mind calling your friend to find out when and where _--I is going next week, please? 

Pretty please? Pretty please with diet cool whip and fat-free fudge sauce on top? I am DYING to know. 

Thanks...msl 

833-DC-000180% 

Page 1 
1012 

Date: Thursday, February 13. 1997 9:45AM 

1 was so tired last night by the time I rolled into my driveway at about 8:30 (had to get up at 3 a.m. to be 

here at the Pentagon by 5:45 yesterday) that I didnt ’ call you, even though that had been my intent. 1 

know you will have a fabulous time in London, I am seriously jealous. You will come home to an 

opportunity to get together with the creep, I am positive. 

sure when at this point! LRT 

Hope to see you sometime today, although not 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , d 

To: Tripp, Linda, , _ 

Subject: secret message 

Date: Wednesday, February 12, 1997 2:50PM 

I miss you!...msl 

833-DC-00018099 

Page 2 
1013 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,a 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,v 

Subject: RE: the first head 

Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 9:43AM 

yOU ARE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNY. LRT 

__________ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , OSD/PA 

To: Tripp, Linda, , OSDlPA 

Subject: the first head 

Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 8:41 AM 

Priority: High 

It serves this 

-&! 

right!!!!!!! I am not looking forward to this weekend. Gee, that sounds like the same 

WI say every Friday. I need help. WjiJ you save me? If not, will you at least have lunch with 

me? luv u...msl 

Balding Bill, Bjt,420 

Clintons ’ thick, gray thatch ever-so-slightly thinning 

WASHINGTON (API If White House woes are tempting President 

Clinton to tear his hair out, he had better keep his hands off: The 

presidential pate is thinning ever so slightly. 

Clinton arrived in Washington four years ago with a full head of 

wavy, graying hair. It has grown silvery over the years more 

presidential, if anything. 

But what is this? 

On closer inspection, the main mans ’ mane is on the wane. 

In the right light and at certain camera angles the pink 

flesh of Clintons ’ head shines through his feathered hairdo. Thick 

thatches of hair in front and on the sides give way to thinner 

trails atop and back. 

So the Baby Boomer president, who succumbed to reading glasses 

several years ago, now faces another hairy hurdle of middle age. 

With his hair hiatus just barely noticeable, nobody is making 

fun of the 50-year-old Clinton. Certainly not Vice President Al 

Gore,.whose bald spot is growing fast. 

Though Gore studiously avoids getting his hairless crown 

photographed, aides insist the vice president is not bothered. 

. * Its ’ all part of reinventing government,” quipped spokeswoman 

Lorraine Voles, ’ *He wants 20 percent less hair.” 

Hmmm. Perhaps Clinton will soon declare, ’ The ‘ era of big hair 

is over.” 

Shakespeare once wrote, . There ‘ s ’ no time for a man to recover 

his hair that grows bald by nature.” That is not to say public 

figures have not tried. 

During the 1952 presidential campaign, Sen. Robert Taft, R-Ohio, 

was the butt of jokes because he trained a few stray strands to 

trail across an otherwise bald scalp. Gen. Douglas MacArthur was 

accused of the same vain cover-up. 

* *Never trust a man who combs his hair straight from the left 

armpit,” Alice Roosevelt Longworth said of the World War II hero. 

More recently, a legion of politicians including Sen. Joe 

Biden, D-Del. have undergone hair transplants. There must be 

something in the air in Delaware: Republican Sen. William Roth 

sports a toupee. 

Like fellow Ohioan Taft, Republican Rep. Steve Chabot rakes long 

strands of hair over his nearly naked head. 

* *People like a handsome politician, and our society puts down 

people who are more or less bald,” said historian Robert Rutland 

833-DC-00018100 

Page 1 
1014 

of Tulsa, Okla. 

* There ‘ arent ’ many bald presidents,” he said. Presidents Adams 

father and son and Eisenhower were among the exceptions. 

AP-NY-02-21-97 0832EST 

Copyright (c) 1997 The Associated Press 

Received by NewsEDGE/LAN: 2121197 8:31 AM 

833-DC-00018101 

Page 2 
1015 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

io: 

Subject: 

Date: 

RE: time 

Friday, February 21, 1997 3:17PM 

HI, IM ’ BACK - YEAH, BORED DOESNT ’ HELP, THATS ’ FOR SURE. I AGREE THAT THIS WEEKEND 

MIGHT BE YOUR BEST BET. LETS ’ SEE WHAT HAPPENS. IT IS INFINITELY EASIER, HOWEVER, TO DO 

ALMOST ANYTHING ELSE IN HIS SPARE TIME THAN ARRANGE SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF 

WHAT YOU OR I MIGHT CONSIDER A BEI-fER USE OF HIS TIME, IF YOU GET WHAT I 

MEAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . THATS ’ A FACT OF LIFE. YES, THE PACE HAS SLOWED, NO THAT DOESNT ’

NECESSARILY TRANSLATE INTO A LACK OF INTEREST. lrt 

____---___ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,w 

To: Tripp, Linda, .s 

Subject: RE: time 

Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 11 :Ol AM 

no, not at all. it was a very accurate statement. im ’ just tired of waiting. i cant ’ really see how the big 

picture can be good if the day to day one hurts so much. im ’ tired of it and im ’ It at him. oh 

this crap about ill ‘’ look at my schedule and see when its ’ a good time. yeah, well he has had time to go 

golfing and goof around and do all sorts of i know that it is easier to go to a golf course than see 

me but for Christs ’ sake, i have waited alm onths. this is cruel and he obviously doesnt ’ want 

to see me that abdly. i think he just likes to with my head becaus eit makes him feel something i 

dont ’ know what, but something. there is reason that I cant ’ go there this weekend. i hate 

his guts. and im ’ bored. 

___-______ 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,w 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, ,w 

Subject: RE: time 

Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 10:52AM 

SUCH A BRIEF RESPONSE, ARE you -THAT I SAID THAT? 

_--_____ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,H 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,- 

Subjecif RE: time 

Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 10:52AM 833-DC-00018102 

yes, i agree.msl 

__________ 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,w 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , _ 

Subject: RE: time 

Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 10:45AM 

STEP OUTSIDE THE TIGHT CIRCLE AND LOOK AT THE WHOLE INSTEAD OF THE VERY CLOSE UP PARTS 

OF THE WHOLE - IF YOU WOULD ONLY DO THAI, YOU WOULD LESSEN THE STRESS AND ANGER 

FACTORS, TRUST ME . OF COURSE, A LARGE PART OF THIS IS THAT I AM CONVINCED STRESS, 

ANGER AND FRUSTRATION ARE NECESSARY PARTS OF YOUR WHOLE, WHICH COMPLICATES THE 

SITUATION EVEN FURTHER.......AGREE?? In. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,_ 

To: Tripp, Linda, . _ 

Subject: RE: time 

Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 10:02AM 

Nope. i couldnt ’ get tickets... well i could, i would just have to pay alot of frickin’ money and it aint ’ worth 

it. im ’ sorry youre ’ sick. feel better. i am stressed and angry. what else is new? write back.msl 

__________ 

From: Tripp, Linda, , m 

To: Lewinsky, Mcnxa. ,B 

Page 1 
1016 

Sublet:: RE: time 

Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 9:38AM 

WHERE IS THIS GAME? IS THERE A CHANCE YOU WILL BE SEEN? LARGE PLACE, I ASSUME. LET ME 

KNOW. HAVE A TERRIBLE COLD (AGAIN) AND MY THROAT IS KILLING ME. ON TOP OF ALL THAT, I 

HAVE MEETINGS AGAIN ALL DAY, INCLUDING ONE OUTSIDE THE PENTAGON WHICH WILLPROBABLY 

GO ON FOR THREE HOURS. I HATE IT. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, 

To: Tnpp, Linda, ,c 

Subject: RE: time 

Date: Thursday, February 20, 1997 4 

Priority: High 

mil- 

:32PM 

okey-dokey. the big creep is going to the bull/bullets game tomorrow night. i am trying to get tickets to 

go with doug. ahhhh! 

_____-__ 

From: Tripp, Linda VW 

To: Lewinsky, Monrca, , 

Subject: RE: time 

Date: Thursday, February 20, 1997 4:25PM 

It is now just about 4:30 and I have just surfaced from the last of the meetings. What a day. I am so 

sorry I have been out of pocket, but I cant ’ control the schedule and the meetings involved the services 

so.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . my throat actually hurts which is why I am writing instead of calling, I have talked so much, 

I wore my voice out. Talk to you later.. rr (I didnt ’ even get my coffee this afternoon, and I HATE that, I am 

really draggingl!) LRT 

__________ 

From: Lewinsky, Monica 

To: Tripp, Linda, , 

Subject: time 

Date: Thursday, February 20, 1997 1:5BPM 

Priority: High 

It iqopen until 4:00 pm. I can go at 3:00 if thats ’ o.k. with you.msl 

833-Dc-ooo18103 

Page 2 
1017 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Subject: RE: ADVICE 

Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 9:04AM 

Brief. NOT gushy friendly, in fact, polite and cordial are the key words here. You want to make a 

statement, which, with any luck, she will pass along. LRT 

-____-__. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,w 

Subject: ADVICE 

Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 8:31 AM 

Hi, I hope youre ’ feeling better ! I m ‘ trying to go over to the WH today to give Jodie these pictures. I also 

plan to stop by Bettys ’ office to drop off these lame photos. 

write me back...msl 

Any advice/suggestions what to do or say? 

Page 1 
1018 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

RE: ADVICE 

Monday, February 24, 1997 11:22AM 

Eureka!!!! 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , OSD/PA 

To: Tripp, Linda, , OSD/PA 

Subject: ADVICE 

Date: Monday. February 24, 1997 8:31 AM 

Hi, I hope youre ’ feeling better ! I m ‘ trying to go over to the WH today to give Jodie these pictures. I atso 

plan to stop by Bettys ’ office to drop off these lame photos. 

write me back...msl 

Any advice/suggestions what to do or say? 

Page 1 
1019 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 4:30PM 

Lets ’ drop it, its ’ not worth the time . . . . . ..I11 ’ be fine tomorrow. I have the vacancy announcement. 

_____c____ 

From: Lewinsky, 

To: Tripp, Linda, , 

Subject: RE: whe 

Date: Monday, March 03. 1997 4: 16PM 

my “bad” habit of jumping down peoples ’ throat sometimes 

can you laugh even when youre ’ mad at me?). I know that s 

am sorry because I know that you do not have to endure that from me. I did not 

ever mean for my remarks to be “biting”, and I am just paranoid about doing something to lose this job. I 

am hyper-sensitive to that fear because of what happened before -- this is not an excuse, more like an 

explanation. I HOPE YOU KNOW HOW VERY MUCH I APPRECIATE YOUR FRIENDSHIP. I hope that in the 

fututre, if there is a future, you let me know sooner when I do something that bothers 

this has been sitting for awhile. Of course, that is prefaced with me trying to not be a 

______-__ 

From: Tripp, Linda, ,e 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , 

Subject: RE: where are 1 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 3:OOf 

It takes a lot to make me “mad” -- you have a habit of jumping down the throats of people you care 

about . . . . . ..I am certain your Mom and Aunt get this, too. Im ’ sure you dont ’ see it. No, you dont ’ have to 

“agree” with everything I say, and yes, I fully expect a give and take and yes, even a sense of frustration 

here and again -- I dont ’ expect what I continue to get -- biting remarks and “reminders” to watch myself. 

I didnt ’ get to this point in my career by being indiscreet, I KNOW when to be careful. You have done this 

one too many times, and it occurs to me that I have not deserved it in the past, do not deserve it now, and 

do not plan to tolerate it in the future. End. 

--_-_---- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica _ 

To: Tripp, Linda, , e 

Subject: RE: where are you? 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 1:41 PM 

Priority: High 

I dont ’ understand why it makes you so mad. I am uncomfortable. If I felt threatened by what I think 

people might overhear, whats ’ the difference to you? I think that you made some really hurtful statements. 

So just because I may disagree with something you walk away from me? Obviously if “I knew best” I 

never would have needed your help in the first place. Why does it bother you so much that I felt 

uncomfortable? To say that it is insulting to you that I pretend that I know better than you, etc. is 

essentially saying to me that in order for us to be friends I have to agree with everything you say. My 

intention was NOT to insult you. I am sorry that I did. If you are done with this there is nothing I can say 

except that that makes me sad. I really dont ’ know why youre ’ so mad at me. Is there something else 

going on? 

From: Tripp, Linda, , 

To: Lewinsky, Manic 

Subject: RE: where a 

Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 1:23PM 

833-DC-00018112 

I wasnt ’ mad. I am now. It is insulting for you to portend that you know better than I how to be subtle. I 

dont ’ know what you do all day, but trust me when I say I speak about faxes 

day. On the phone. To people. Constantly. I am done with this. Youre ’ on 

than anyone else anyway. 

and info back and forth all 

your own. You know better 

__________ 

From: Lewinsky, Monrca. , w 

Page 1 
1020 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Tripp, Linda, , 

.B Lewinsky, Mom , 

RE: hi, ya 

Wednesday, March 05, 1997 12:44PM 

I should be able to do coffee later, because I MUST go to the credit union before 3 to cash a check, or I 

will be walking home . . . . . . . . I do this all the time, and run out of money because I forget to write checks so 

that I have money around, and its ’ because its ’ so nuts around here these days that the time totally gets 

away from me. I overslept (sheer exhaustion) and look like 

words, much, much worse than usual. Plus, I am having a so its ’ all a 

mess.. . +. . . . youll ’ look like Ms. Universe next to me, be rest 

____----__ 

From: Lewinsky, M nica 

To: Tripp, Linda, , ,rr 

Subject: RE: hi, ya 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 11:47AM 

Remind me to come to you when i feel good more often (ha-ha-ha)! In fact, maybe if i come bug you later 

youll ’ make me feel better about looking so GROSS today. The highlight of my appearance today being the 

vlocano zit i have on my cheek. Hmmm...attractive! Im ’ bored. Would you like to go for coffee later? I 

know youre ’ busy these days so I wont ’ be offended if you cant. ’ buh-bye msl 

___----___ 

From: Tripp, Linda It_ 

To: Lewinsky, Monica, , 

Subject: RE: hi, ya 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 11:34AM 

Are you asking me if the tie if really pretty? It is positively gorgeous. I am knot (ha!) particularly into ties, 

but from my exposure to you, I am developing an interest. Yours was stupendous, no kidding, clean, crisp, 

texture,.color, pattern, bright, without being at all over the top.....a total hit. 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, ,d 

To: Tripp, Linda, , _ 

Subject: hi, ya 

I 

Date: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 10:05AM 

Priority: High 

Boy, I look so scary today. People might think that I thought it was Halloween. Oh, well. 

(if Betty is nice) get my tie today. 

.‘ should 

I sure hope he like s it. make me feel better and tell me It s rea y 

pretty, o.k.? msl 

833-DC-00018116 

Page 1 
1021 

ltripp (Working Offline) 

From: 

To: 

Subject: 

Date: 

RE: TlEphoid fever 

Monday, March 24, 1997 4:04PM 

Not a good idea for e-mail traffic -- says one who has had numerous e-mail run-ins on national TV! LRT 

---------- 

To: Tripp, Linda, ,-- 

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , 

Subject: TlEphoid fever 

Date: Wednesday, March 12, 1997 11:03AM 

Priority: High 

That-s wearing another new tie and its ’ not mine. i hate him. period.msl 

833-DC-00018120 

Page 1 
1022 
Memorandum 

1023 

Office of the Independent Counsel 

To File me 8127198 

Sub: Lesinsky interview on 8/l 3/98 

During the 8/l 3/98 interview of Monica S. Lewinsky, Lewinsky asked if she could 

discuss a particular matter outside the presence of male investigators/attorneys. Associate 

Independent Counsel (AIC) Grin Immergut obliged Lewinsky, and the two left the interview 

room. After a few minutes, the two returned and the interview resumed. The contents of the 

interview of 8/13/98 are documented in an FD-302, transcribed on 8/l 4/98 by writer.. 

After the inteniew, AIC Immergut advised writer as to the details of what Lewinsky 

discussed outside the presence of investigators. Imrnergut advised that Lewinsky stated that 

during her November 13, 1997 meeting with Clinton, Lewinsky showed Clinton an e-mail. The 

e-mail described the - _ a 

Lewinsky also brought some Altoids with her and was eating them when she met with Clinton. 

Clinton told Lewinsky they did not have enough time for oral sex. Lewinsky told Clinton to at 

least put his tongue on hers and he obliged. 
1024 
1025 

o[C-302 (Rev. 8-19-94) 

- 1 - 

OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL 

Date of transcripuon 06/09/98 

Avenue, NW, Washington, DC, 20004. Present for the interview 

were Associate Independent Counsel (AIC) MICHAEL TRAVERS, AIC 

MARY ANNE WIRTH and Department of Justice (DOJ) attorneys ANNE 

WEISMANN and JANIS KESTENBAUM. DRAGOTTA was interviewed under 

the terms of an agreement reached between the OIC and DOJ. 

DRAGOTTA was apprised of the official identities of the 

interviewers and thereafter provided the following information: 

DRAGOTTA has%een employed by the USSS since November 

of 1996. In September of 1997, DRAGOTTA was assigned to a 

permanent position at the Southwest gate. 

DRAGOTTA first recalls seeing MONICA LEWINSKY when 

DRAGOTTA was stationed at the-post, which is the 17th Street 

entrance to the Old Executive Office Building (OEOB). DRAGOTTA 

recalls sometime during the Summer of 1996, between 6:30 a.m. and 

2:30 p.m., LEWINSKY came through the OEOB entrance. DRAGOTTA 

does not recall if LEWINSKY was an employee or a visitor. 

DRAGOTTA advised that he was unfamiliar with the : d 

mechanics of working the= post, 

to watch how the system worked. 

so he stayed in the background 

DRAGOTTA recalls hearing other 

officers talk about LEWINSKY later that day. DRAGOTTA heard that 

LEWINSKY was caught having oral sex with the President in the 

Family Theater. 

The second time DRAGOTTA saw LEWINSKY was in December 

of 1997. DRAGOTTA had heard nothing new concerning LEWINSKY 

since the incident at post m DRAGOTTA advised that on a 

Saturday or a Sunday, LEWINSKY came to the Southwest gate and 

advised she was there to see BETTY CURRIE. DRAGOTTA asked for 

LEWINSKY's driver's license and entered her name into the WAVES 

system, where LEWINSKY's name did not appear. DRAGOTTA advised 

LEWINSKY she did not have an appointment. 

DRAGOTTA told LEWINSKY to use the house phone. 

DRAGOTTA thinks LEWINSKY called BETTY CURRIE. CURRIE called 

-. 

- 

Investigation on 06/03/98 at Washington, DC File X 29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Date dictated 06/09/98 
1026 

OIC-302a (Rev. 8-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

Continuation of OIC-302 of DOUGLAS ROBERT DRAGOTTA .On 06/03/98 Page 2 

DRAGOTTA and told him that LEWINSKY was there to see CURRIE and 

for DRAGOTI'A to please let her-in. DRAGOTTA told CURRIE he could 

not do that and then explained the appointment and WAVES 

clearance proqedure to CURRIB. 

DRAGOTTA advised that LEWINSKY had a shopping bag and 

he thinks there were two gift-wrapped packages in the bag. 

DRAGOTTA advised that the packages were the size of shirt boxes. 

Approximately every three minutes, DRAGOTTA typed LEWINSKY's name 

into the computer to see if an appointment had been made for her. 

LEWINSKY waited outside the Southwest gate the entire time, which 

lasted no more than fifteen minutes. 

DRAGOTTA ad&ed that LEWINSKY appeared to be perturbed 

when she was waiting. LEWINSKY was dressed in business attire 

both times he saw her. DRAGOTTA believes the second incident 

occurred before Christmas. DRAGOTTA advised that Officer JANNEY - 

was also in the Southwest gate at the time. JANNEY x-rayed 

LEWINSKY's packages when she fin%!Lly got into the White House 

complex. JANNEY did not tell DRAGOTTA what he saw in the 

packages. 

Sergeant MILES BREY was also on duty that day, floating 

between the Southwest gate and his own post that day. H 

DRAGOTTA advised he does not partake in rumors. 
1027 

h- Prnm44lhaae * M11lfl-Pam! TM Awmst 13- 

Page : 

WITm STATES DISTRIm ComT 

Y-x THE DISInIcr oc mlV)(B1a 1 Afterthisisoverwi&youhavearightifyousochooseto 

----------------~ 2 talkaboutyourappearanceandwhitoccunedberewith 

IN RR: 3 anybody you choose. On the other hand, Ms. Wirth, myself, 

C-D JURY -llDINCS : 4 tbe court reporter, all members of the grand jury may not. 

5 Tbereisoneexceptiontothatruleandtbatis 

----------------~ 

&ran* Jury Rw "0. 3 

6 thatifajudgeordersthatwhattookplaoeoroccurredbere 

United StAteI District court 

rot th4 District or COllmbil 

7 todaybedisclosedinaose,inatrialorinsameotber 

3rd ‘ constituticn, Y.Y. 

Nr,hin9ton, D.C. 20001 

8 kind of legal proceed& that that’s an exception to that 

Thhursday, August 13, 1998 9 rule. Do you undastand that? 

10 A Yes. 

The testimony ot MVGIAS RoBeRT -A V.9 taken 

in the presence or * tu11 quorum or Gland Jury 97-2. 11 Q In making your appearance before a fedexal grand 

iapureled on septmbar 19, 1991, c-ncin9 at 2:26 p.m.. 

12 jury, you have certain rights and responsibilities and I’d 

betore: 13 liketogooverthemwithyoubrieflybeforewestattasking 

CWARD J. PAGE 14 you questions. Do you understand? 

I4AFs ANNE IIIRTX 

As,oeiata Independent CoUIW*l 15 A Yes. 

ortics or 1ndepndmt coun**1 

1001 Fwln~ylvral~ A".ml., W.W. 16 Q Oneoftbeserightsthatyouhaveiscalhzdyour 

suit* 490 north 

Washinqton, D.C. 20004 17 Fif&&nendmentrighttonotincxi.mh&yourselfifa 

18 truthful answertothequestionwouldtendtoinhmhte 

19 you Do youundemtandthat? 

20 A Yes,Ido. 

21 Q Youalsohavetberighttostepoutsideduringtbc 

22 questioning and consult with your attorney who I understand 

23 isMattBateswhoisbenonbehalfofthe!hretServiceas 

24 well as your behalf. Do you understand that? 

25 A Yes. 

Page 2 Page 1 

1 PROCEEDINGS 1 Q ~youunderstandfurthertbatyou’reunde,roatb 

2-n, 2 now and that you ain’t say you don’t remember iftbat’s not 

3 DOUGLAS ROBERT DRACXYlTA 3 afmnate; you can’t say 1 forget” if that’s not acunate; 

4 wascalledasawitncssand,aftuhingbanfirstduly 4 andthatyou’reobligatedtotelltbetruthaadthatyoumay 

5 swornbythcF~naftheGraodJury,wasaaminedaod 5 not mislead tbe grand jury in your testimony? Do you 

6 testifii as follows: 6 understandthat? 

7 JZAh4INATION 7 A Yes. 

8 BY MR. PAGE: 8 Q Do you have any questions for us before we ask ours 

9 Q Wouldyoutcllusyourfullaamc,p~? 9 of you? 

0 A Douglas Robert Dmgotta. 10 A No. 

1 Q offica,myaamcisEdPsgcandtomykftis 11 A JUROR: CouId you speII your last n? 

2 MkuyAxmewirth. webothworkforthcoffictofllhga&nt 12 THE WITNESS: Dragotta is spelled Ika-g-o-t-t-a. 

3 cQwlaclandoneorbotbofu9willbcaskiogqucstioasofyou 13 BY MS. WIRm 

4 todayozhbduilfofthcgmndjmy,~well~romeoftbe 14 Q Officer Dtagotta, you’ve been employed by the 

5 mmbas iudividually may ask you qlldms. Do yovl 15 secret !&mice since November of 1996. Is that right? 

.6 mxkstdtbat? 16 A 1995. 

.7 A Yes. 17 Q Okay. Andareyouamemberoftheuniformed 

8 Q ToyouleftistbccourttcporkrtbtI’mpointing 18 division? 

9 to. It’s her job to take down thei qustions and the answas. 19 A Yes,Iam. 

0 Do you understand that? : 20 Q Andhaveyoubeenas@nedtoworkattbeWhite 

1 A Yes. 21 Housesinceacertaindate? 

2 Q Doyouun&ntandtbatwhatgccsaainhtoday 22 A Yes. 

3 issezxtlmderfakralnlksofcrimhlpmaduminthat 23 Q Aadwhendidyuubecomeassignedtoworkatthe 

4 thto$ypasoawbocansayanythhgaboutwhatbasoCc&rcd 24 white House? 

5 bcn: today, questions aud ~~~surcrs, tbiUgSliktth3~iSyoU? 25 A l%atwouIdbea!?erIgotoutoftrainhgAprilof 

DiversifiedR,~rtinnServices,hc.(202~296-2929 .L 

Pagel-Page4 
1028 

Inrc: GrandJurvPmcadings Ml&i-Page w August 13,1998 1 

page 

1 96. ‘

2 Q Okay. Andwhathasyourarsignmentbeensince 

3 then? 

4 A Istartedoffasaswingoff&randtbenin 

5 September of ‘97, I started working at the southwest gate. 

6 Q Okay. Have you seez~ Monica Lewin&y? 

7 A Yes. 

8 Q whslwastheftitimeyousawher? 

9 A Iklieveitwassometimein’96,tomybest 

0 recollection,maybeinthe-. 

1 Q Okay. Anddoyou rememberwhatdayoftheweekit 

2 was? 

3 A No, I don’t. 

4 Q Were you working the southwzst gate? 

5 A No, I was not. 

6 Q %‘krewcreyouworking? 

7 A Apc&,~thel7thStreetsideoftheold 

8 building. 

9 Q Old Executive Office Building? 

0 A Mm&mm. AndI~‘texactlyworkingtkpost. I 

1 wasanewoffIiceronon-the-jobtrainingandIwasjustkind 

2 offloatingarotmd 

3 Q Okay. What do you remember about your encounter 

4 with Ms. Lewinsky that day? 

5 A Ididn’tkveapersonalencormter,Ijustsawher 

Paged 

1 comeinandIheardsomefellowoff&rssaysometbings 

2 abouther. 

3 Q whenyousay”comein,“comeinwhere? 

4 A Thrwghtheentxanceoff 17thStreet. 

5 Q TogototkWhiteHouse? 

6 A I don’t know where exactly she was going. Sk was 

7 entering in the old building. 

B Q Entering into tk old building? 

9 A &ht. 

D Q So sk could have been going to tk Old Executive 

1 OfficeBuilding? 

2 A Exactly. 

3 Q Okay. Anddoyou -beranythingaboutthetime 

4 ofday? WhatshiftyouuzertwoIlCiq? 

5 A Ibelieveitwas-Ithinkitwasdaywork. 

6 Q Which would k 6:30 am. to 2:30 p.m.? 

7 A Exactly. 

B Q okay. so somewb in that timeframe? 

? A Mm-hmm. 

3 QAnything rema&able about that incident at all? 

I A Acoupleoftheofficesjustsaidthenzwasa 

2 luInortbatshewas-orskwascaughti.nthefamilytheater 

3 withthePKsidentorsomethinglikethat. 

I Q Okay. Andisthatwbyyou renmllber the incident? 

I A Yes. 

5 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

21 

2 

2 

2 

2, 

2. 

i 

Diversified Reportinn. Services. Inc. (202) 296-2929 

1 Q Seeingher? 

2 A Mm-bmm. 

Page 7 

3 Q Okay. Didyoueverseeber@? 

4 A Yes,onanotherocc&onwhenIwasworkingattk 

5 southwgate. 

6 Q Andwheowastbat? 

7 A December of ‘97, some time in December of ‘97. 

8 Q ~YW nzmembe+tbatitwasearlyorlateDecember, 

9 inthemiddle soxmwbx? Do you have any recollection? 

0 A Idon’tknowexactly,butIthinkitwastowards 

1 theendofwber. 

2 Q ~YW rememberwhoelsewasworkingthatday? 

3 A I remember Officer Janney specifically, but I don’t 

4 -berwhoekwasassignedwithmeatthegate 

5 Lspeciccally. 

6 Q &YOU remembuwhatdayoftk.weekitwas? 

7 A No, I don’t. 

8 Q &YOU rcmembathatitwasaweekend? 

9 A Itmighthavebeenaweeicend Iwanttosaya 

0 Sunday because it seemed slow, but I didn’t take any notes or 

1 anythin& so I don’t know exactly. 

2 Q Okay. Do you nzmembertbetinzofday? 

3 A Ithinkitwasinthemorningtime. Iklieveit 

4 wasintbemoroingsometime. 

5 Q Okay. Didyouspaaktol%nicaLewinskythatday? 

paget 

1 A Yes,Idid 

2 Q AndwbatwastkaahPeofyourconversationwitb 

3 her? 

4 A Well,sheapproa&dtkgate,sksaidshe’shere 

5 foranappointment. IaskedherforherID. IgotherID. 

6 Skwasnotinforanappointmentandladvisedberoftkt. 

7 Q Now, did sbe say who sbe had an appointment with? 

3 A Yes. SksaidshewasheretoseeBettyCurrie. 

? Q AnddidyouchecktheWAVESsystem? 

I A Yes,Idid 

I Q Andyoufoundthatbernamedidnotappearintk 

2 WAVESIUX&? 

b A Tbat’sright. Itdidnot. 

I Q Asapersonwithanappointment. 

i A That’sright. 

i Q Whenyoutoldhertbat,didshesayanything? 

I A Sk got kind of huffy and puffy. Sk said she’s 

i heretoseeBettyandthatsheshouldkclea&in. Meaning 

) shealreadyshouldhavebeencleanzdin. AndIsaid,well, 

) she’snotin. IgaveherIDbackandtkaItoldkrthat 

shecouldusethehousephcmetoherlef& 

I Q Andwhenyousay”Sk’snotin,“youmeant-- 

I A Skhasn’tbeenclaPtdinthesystem 

I Q Okay. Soyoutoldkrtouaetkhouaephane? 

i A Ibat’sright. 

Pages-Page8 
1029 

Inre: GnmdhrryPr~gs 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

I 

1 

I 

I 

1 

# 4 

, 4 

I d 

# d 

. d 

, 

, 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

I 

I 

1 

2 

2 

2 

2 

: 

: 

Page < 

1 Q Anddidsbedothat? 

2 A Yes,&edid. 

3 Q Did you overhear tir canvtrsation? 

4 A No,Ididnot. 

5 Q Doyouknowwhosbecalled? 

6 A No,Idonot. 

7 Q Didanyhdycallyouaft=thatcall? 

8 A Yes. IbelieveBeiiyCuniecalleddownto 

9 Baker-+ the sauthwest gate, and said, “Is Monica here?” 

LO Q WhodidBettyspeakto? 

Ll A Me. Isaid, “Yes, skis.’ &said, “Yes, sbe’s 

12 kretoseeme. Couldyouletherup?” 

I3 Q lknwhatdidyousiy? . 

14 A ItoldB@ythatshewasn’tclearedintbesys@n, 

I5 soIcan’tletherup. 

I6 Q Okay. WasBdtyin- ~you++=m 

17 t.heWAVESpmcedu~? 

18 A Iha~noickawbatBe#y~~mto~. 

19 Q WbenBettyaskedyouletbzrup,hadyouexplained 

20 toBettythathhicawasnoti.ntkWAVESsystem? 

21 A Ijustexplainedourpolicy,thatshehastobe 

12 cleared in. 

23 Q WasthatbeforeorafterBettyaskedyoutolether 

24 in? 

25 A After. 

Multi-Pagem August 13,1998 

, 1 

Page 1 

1 in. I brought ber in and gave her a pass. That’s when 

2 OffuzrJanneytooktbebagandX-myedthegiftsandthen 

3 skdepadedfmntkre. 

4 Q Did you watch that X-ray process? 

5 A No,becausetheX-rayisallthewayontheothzr 

6 side of the driveway, so you can’t really see over there. 

7 Q DidOflicerJanneyevertellyouwhatwasinthe 

8 boxes? 

9 A No. I never really asked or anything. 

0 Q Isthereanypzuticularreasonwhyyouthinkthat 

1 this incident happened in December 1997? Is there anything 

2 thatmakesyouthi.nkitwasDecembez? 

3 A Ijust nzrnemkitbeingDecemberfromthennnor 

4 thatIkardaboutlxrbackin’96,fromDelta-2,because 

5 llecqlhdberface. 

6 Q But I’m asking whether the&s any particular 

7 reasonwhyyou remember that this incident that you’re 

8 talkingabouteghtnowwheEshecomesinwiththegifts 

9 bpenedb December of 1997, that particular month. 

10 nit’s all. 

11 A Ijustknowitwasbeca~whenttuzstorybrokein 

12 tbepress,Imean,itwasthis--IguessJanuaryorFebruary 

3 orsometimearoundtbere,itwasamonthorsoaRer. 

i4 Q Allright- Thisincidentwithherhadjust 

15 happeaedamonthbefore? 

Page 1: 

1 A Igues. Yes. Maybe two months before. So it was 

2 freshinmymind. 

3 Q Do you have any memory of anything m sor 

4 of happening around tbat time that klps you place this? 

5 A Well,beingthattheywexegifts,thatkind6 Q Doyouhaveanyparticuhrmemorythattheywn 

7 christmaspresents? 

B A I don’t know exactly what type of presents they 

9 were,butD Q Okay. Butitcouldhavebeenamonthortwo 

1 before. 

2 AOf? 

3 Q YouhaidaminuteagowhenIsaid-letme 

4 represent to you that January 21,199s the story broh in the 

5 press about Monica hwinsky. 

6 A Is that when it - 

7 Q 1% represent to you that that’s the date. 

8 Q Okay. Andyousaida momentagothatwhenthis 

9 storybecamepublic,itwasamonthortwobeforethatthis 

0 incidenthadhappened. Isthatright? 

1 A Well, lkcember, I know it happened in December. 

2 Q Okay. Okay. Do you have any memory wkther it wa 

3 before or after Chktmas? 

4 A No,Idon’t. Forsomereasoqlwanttobelieveit 

5 wasthe U&December 15thorafter,forsomereasoa I 

Page l( 

1 Q Okay. AndwhenyouexplainedtoBettythatsbehad 

2 tobeclearedin,whatdidBettysay? 

3 A Okay. No problem. 

4 Q HadtbateverhappezxzdbeforewbereBettycurrie 

5 askedyoutoletberin? 

6 A No,Ihadneverspokeo,tolkttybefore. 

7 Q Okay. Allright. DidMmicaLewhskyhave 

8 anythingwithhuthatday? 

9 A Yes. Sbedidhave-IbeIieveahandbagandthen 

0 alsolikeashoppingbag. 

1 Q Anddidyoulookinsidetbebag? 

2 A Ididnotlookinsi&,butIcouldseeinsidetbe 

3 baganditlookedtheywerewrappedgiftsofwrmekindor 

4 wrappadt== 

5 Q Doyoubaveanymemoryofwhattkylookedlike, 

.6 whatsktheywen&whatkindof~wasonthem? 

7 A Notexactly. Justmaybeastandardsizeshirtbox 

8 orsomething. 

.9 Q Morethanonegift? 

!O A Ithinkliketwo,itwasa~bag,so- 

!l Q Okay. Anddoyouknowwbathappened-didshesay 

!2 who those presents were for? Did Monica say? 

!3 A No, she did not. 

!4 Q Doyouknowwhathap@totbepreseots? 

!5 A Once&ewasclearedineventually,Iprocessedher 

page 9-Pafze12 

Diversified Report& Services, IINS. (202) 296-2929 
1030 

. 

lnrt: Grandhnylmcndm ’ gs Milt 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

1 

2 

2 

2 

2 

2 

2 

Page 13 

1 doll’tknowivby. 

2 Q Okay. Doyouha~anyraxdsthatwouldshowwbat 

3 dayitwas 

4 A No, I di&‘t take any notes or anything. 

5 Q Doyouhavcanynxrdsanywlrztbatwould 

6 imiica~wbatdatcyouxvcxhd? Wasitunusualforyouto 

7 workawahmd? 

8 A No. Not at alL My days off an’Friday and 

9 %urday,soI’llbcthx!hday. Backtkn,thywcre 

0 Sunday, Monday, so I was tint? Friday, SatInday. !30 - 

1 Q Soifitwasawehd,thiswcnhlhevcbana 

2 Saturday? 

3 A No. WcIl,notmxssah@bazauseIworkalotof 

4 mydaysoff,soI’mtbatmostoftktim. 

5 Q Is&. Okay. Istkzcanyrcconianywtntthat 

6 wouklhlpyouplaccthcdatofthisparticularvisit? 

7 A No,Idon’thavcaoything. Imam,Ihokcd 

8 throughmy-IkecptrackofwhatIwork,whtshiftsand 

9 stuR,butIdon’thavcanynotcsoranythingtoindicatc 

0 wks.lskcanEiI.l. 

I Ms. WlRm Any qucstiolls? 

2 wo =I.-=) 

3 THE FQREPERSON: Offi= Dmgoaa, you 8n cxcuai. 

4 And thank you for your testimony. 

5 THE WITNESS: lllankyoll. 

Page 14 

1 MS. WxRm lllatlk you. 

2 (The witness was excused.) 

3 (whereupon, at 2:38 p.m., the taking of testimmy 

4inthepresenceofafullquorumoftbeGrandJurywas 

5 concluded.) 

6 ***** 

i-1 Pagem August 13,1998 

l 

Page 13 -Page 14 

Diversified Rqmrtinn !tkrviw. Inc. (202) 296-2929 
Charles Duncan, 2/l 8198 

Grand Jury 

Page 1 to Page 77 

CONDENSED TRANSCRIPT AND CONCORDANCE 

PREPARED BY: 

OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL 

1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. 

Suite 490-North 

Washington, DC 20004 

Phone: 202-514-8688 

FAX: 202-514-8802 
1032 

BSA Charles Duncan, 2110198 XMAXll) . 

Page 1 

[ll UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 

[31ln re: 

I41 

t51GRAND JURY PRtiEEDlNGS : 

[61 

(,] ___-____--___-__ x 

181 Grand Jury Room No. 4 

191 United States District Court 

1101 for the District of Columbia 

Cl11 3rd 8 Constitution, N.W. 

[I21 Washington, DC. 20001 

I131 Wednesday, Februa 18 1998 

I:: ;the 

The testimony of CHARL % S ARTHUR DUNCAN was taken in 

resence of a full uorum of Grand Ju 

[16]on !!? eptember 19, 199 B , commencing at 1: “5 3 p.m., before: 

97-2, impaneled 

[171 SOLOMON WlSENBERG 

I181 ROBERT Bll-TMAN 

I191 THOMAS BIENERT 

IZO! JACKIE M. BENNRT, JR. 

I211 

1221 

I231 

[241 

[251 Washington, DC. 2tlOO4 

Page 2 

Ill 

~zjWhereupon, 

CHARLES ARTHUR DUNCAN 

I:iwas called as a witness and, after having been duly sworn by 

t 51 the Foreperson of the Grand Jury, was examined and testified 

[6]as follows: 

t71 EXAMINATION 

181 BY MR. BITTMAN: .~. 

[91 Q Mr. Duncan, could you have a seat, please, and give 

t 101 us your fultAname and address? 

~-l& Charles Arthur Duncan,d- 

$MAN: I would just note for the record four 

I111 

t12- _ MR. Bll 

I::igrand jurors have just n+entered the-grand .ury room 

[151 And we now have a quorum, Ma d am Forelady? 

Cl61 THE FOREPERSON: Yes, we do. 

[l’l MR. BITTMAN: And we did before their coming in? 

.--, l,Rl THE FOREPERSON: 

I191 BY MR. BIT-TWIN: 

We did before also. 

1201 Cl 

tzljthrs grand ju 

Mr. Duncan, do you understand as a witness before 

tznlobligations? c ‘

that you have certain rights and certain 

ou have the tight to have an attorney present 

t23loutsrde the courtroom and consult with that attorney at 

[2 4 1 reasonable times. Do you understand that? 

(251 A I do. 

Do you have an attorney outside? 

I do. 

And what is his or her name? 

Joseph Sellers. 

[51 _Hoy do you spell Mr. Seller% name? 

161 : S-e-l-l-e-r-s. 

0 You also have a right to remain silent if an answer 

ii; to a question I ask you may incriminate you. Do you 

I 91 understand that? 

Page 4 

.-, 

[lOI A I do. 

Q Your obligations are to tell the truth and if ou 

I::llie or intentionally mislead this rand jury about a materia 

; ;:; rnnFr, you may be prosecutec?for that. Do you understa!td 

Cl51 A I do. 

1161 Q Do ou have an questions before we proceed? 

[l'l A Id ’ II 5: e some wa r er. 

Cl81 MR. WISENBERG: It might be a while. 

I191 THE WITNESS: Okay. 

I201 A JUROR: There are some cups up there. 

[211 BY MR. BIlTMAN: 

[221 0 Where are 

I! 

ou currently employed, Mr. Duncan? 

[231 A 

Q 

Departmen of State. 

And how long have you been employed at the 

I::iDepartment of State? 

OIC-Starr 

Page 5 

11: A 

[I: Q 

Since July of 1997. 

Where were you employed prior to that? 

;:j 

A 

Q 

Department of Defense. 

artment of Defense 

A 

And what did you do with the De 

I was a Special Assistant to the ecretary of 

I z; Defense and White House Liaison. 

8 

:;1 

0 

A 

How long did you hold that position? 

Since October of 1993. 

191 Q 

A 

lo/93 through when? 

I101 M 

t 11 Idetailed from 7 

employment ended in Jul of 1997. I was 

De ense to State from March t Yl 

t1211997. 

rough July of 

1131 .~~. Q Is that a political armointment? 

(141 A 

1151 

I161 : 

1171 

I181 2 

I191 Q 

t 20 1 Pentagon? 

I211 A 

(221 Q 

t23lentire time at 

1241 A 

r251 Q 

It is. 

And what 

8 

rade level were you? 

WSE 

Senior Executive Service. 

What was your phone number while you were at the 

Was that the same phone number that you had the 

th+eEentagon? 

What is your home phone number? 

Page 6 

[ll A 

I21 

131 AQ 

[41 

15; A0 

161 

['I 

181 

C_urren$f? 

How long was it Thai last number? 

[9i A 

0 

From September of 93 ‘ through June of 97. ‘

~:~~vou were at the Deoartment o 

Do you have a 

P 

ager? Did you have a pager while 

..~.. Defense? 

[12i 

I131 

I141 

A Yes: 

Q What was that number? 

A It was an 800 pager. I dont ’ recall all the 

rlsldgits. 

1161 Q 

il-r]House. 

Tell us what you did as the liaison with the White 

A Well, my duties were varied. I primarily was 

i:iifocused on participating in the placement of the non-career 

tzolpositions that the department had. 

1211 Q Explain that. 

A Well, in the Pentagon there are three different 

I:$;types of,employment. Theres ’ the military. theres ’ the 

[24]career crvil service and theres ’ the non-career. My office 

tzslparticipated in the appointment process for the non-career. 

Page 7 

[II Q 

A 

And how did you perform your duties? 

ii&ed 

In many different ways. Often there was sort of a 

osition such as an assistant secretary or deputy 

f 4 ]assIs .P ant secretary. Others were more. unior ‘ The were in 

tslthe Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the f&. annes. 0 ff! ce of the 

r61Secretarv of Defense. throuahout the population of the 

t7 jdepartrnent. 

re1 Q How big a staff did you have? 

191 .-, A Two. 

[lOI Q And who were those people? 

[ill A 

I121 0 

I had an assistant whose name was Fred Haggard. 

Who do you spell Freds ’ last name? 

1131 A H-a-gga-rd. 

Cl41 Q Oka 

cl 

. 

A I ha 

And who was your other? 

several secretanes while I was there for 

I:z;various lengths of time. They were in the building before I 

117 lgot there, career secretaries. 

Cl81 Q So it would be you, Fred Haggard and a secretary? 

[I91 A 

Q 

And a secretary. 

IZisame time? 

Did you ever have more than one secretary at the 

1221 A No. 

Q Your duties as ouve ’ just described them seem to 

I%;me to have nothing to do with r he Whrte House. I mean, if 

[2s]you were just filling spots - you were employed by the 

Page 1 to Page 7 
1033 

--_. Charles Duncan, 2/18/98 XUAXl(121 

Page 8 

[ 11 Department of Defense, is that correct? 

I21 A Thats ’ correct. 

[31 Q 

r 4 1 White House? 

Your title also, though, included liaison with the 

isi A Thats ’ correct. 

(61 Q Is that a se 

A No. Part o P 

arate job? 

the process for fillin positions is 

Ii 1 to go to the Office of Presidentral Personnel wrt 3 in the 

t 3 IWhite House and where they would give us recommendations, 

t 10 j resumes of qualified people to be considered for the 

t 111 positions. 

[I21 Q 

r 13 IHouse? 

How frequently would you get names from the White 

i14i A Daily. 

I151 Q How many, ap roximately, on a dai basis? 

A It depended. &J er the three years p r‘ us some months 

::76il was there it was obviously heavier in the beginnrn 

t 1s 1 because we were still staffing up for the first time in $ 993 

tlsjand 1994. There were days when I may get 20.30,40. other 

t2ojdays when I would get three. 

0 Let me direct your attention, then, to the 

i:::of early 1997. How many were you getting at that pe IiOCfZP 

t23jtime? 

t241 A Not very many. Maybe - possibly ten a week. 

1251 Q And what was the normal procedure for hiring 

Page 11 

: : A 

IG j being normal. Every one of them was entire1 

I cant ’ charactenze any of the apporntments as 

z 

different. 

t 3 1 There is no eas T 

f 4 Ientirely differen r 

answer for that question. eyre ’ all 

[51 Q Are there some things that must occur? I suppose 

t6)your being notified that theres ’ a vacancy must always occur. 

A Yes. But not ahvays. Thats ’ why I said if I 

197 jtrained them correctly they would notify me. 

Q Must always a person, a candidate, for example, 

t:z,submit ’ a ryurn;;z. you? 

(111 

I121 Q 

A 

Must they fill out any other qovemment form? 

The 

i::lwere still used by t x 

would have had - at the time that SF-171s 

e government. they would have had to 

tlslcomplete an SF-171. 

1161 Q Must there be an interview? 

Ll’l A Yes. 

Q So theres ’ atways an interview, theres ’ always at 

I::ileast a res.me$n;hmmcps another SF-171 form? 

I201 

I211 Q Which is a standard government form? 

I-221 A Mm-hmm. 

1231 Q 

A 

And then there must be a vacancy? 

[241 No. not necessanl 

1251 Q Not necessarily? hh at percentage of the tima are 

Page 9 

(11 someone at the Pentagon through the White House? 

A Well the procedure for hirin 

~~jnon-career positionis ’ that my office would %enotiiofa 

anybody for a 

t 4 Ivacancy and we would then o to the Office of Presidential 

t 5 1 Personnel, describe to them 9 he ktnd . of position it was, 

t 6 ] receive resumes from the White House. 

I would sometimes interview the people, sometimes I 

178:wouldnt ’ interview thepeople, and then I would forward their 

[ 9 j names on if I thou 

[lOI 0 9 

ht it was a good fit for the vacan 

So et me get this straight. You wou 8. be notified 

t I 11 that there ys avrvcha;~. 

1121 

Q You would then go to the White House to see whether 

I:: i they had a person that could fill that job. 

il5j - A Mm-hmm. 

IIf,, Q Then the White House. if thev had someone. would 

ii; i send you aresume and you may or may ’ nof interview that 

t 1 s 1 person. 

(Isjwould. 

If you didnt ’ interview them, I suppose someone else 

I-201 A Thats ’ correct. 

Q 

I :: i interview the 

Okay. What percentage of the time did you actually 

peo le? 

1231 A Fi R 

Q 

y percent of the time. 

Okay. And you said around early 1997 you were 

Ii:lgetting about ten resumes per week. How many job openings 

Page 12 

t I 1 there not vacancies? 

A There were occasions when I would interview 

I;isomebody on an informational basis who had ex ressed 

t I ! interest in the department. The de 

(5: to hire X number of people, and I B 

artment had B he abrlrty ” 

ont ’ know what that 

t 6 1 number is, but there are a certain number of non-career 

t 7 1 

,P 

ositions that were available and distributed throughout 

r 5 1 he department. 

I would often interview somebody on an 

t :ziinformational basis and sort of store them away for when a 

did occur, so I would have part of the process 

i24i 

[251 

A Quite often. . 

Q Who was your contact at Presidential Personnel? 

Page 10 

rilwere oaxting in 1997? 

[21 A Very few. 

Q 

I: i attention, then, to like the first six months of 1997. 

Very few job openings. Lets ’ dire& your 

ts]Approximately how many job openings would there have been, 

[ 61 If YOU can approximate? 

Ii;the Penta 

A I really dont ’ s cifically recall. I was out of 

on in Februa of 997 almost. 

% 

r 

If I said 

t:z:months of 1996. 

1897. I misspoke. I meant the first six 

(111 A Well, there were still very few. I dont ’ recall 

I 12 I how many specific vacancies would have occurred at any time. 

i13jl just - I cant ’ put a finger on the number. 

Cl41 0 How were ou not&d of the vacancies? 

Normally t it 

[ :z; I trained th$m corredty,would ‘ tell me that they had this 

e office that had the vacancy would, if 

tx7jposition. 

Q How long does the procedure on average last from 

I :“9; the time you were notified of a vacancy then you contact the 

r 20 t White House to sav that there is a vacarm and the White 

t 2 1 j House then contacts you with some candidates and then you 

r 22 1 interview them to when the rrson starts? That IS. the whole 

t 2 3 1 process from your being no rfied that there IS a vacancy to 

124 lgorng through the whole White House thing to when the person 

rrsjstarts. what period of time does that normally take? 

Page 13 

A Under them served a number of Deputy Directors of 

i ::! Presidential Personnel. 

0 Actually if you could ust ‘ list the people since 

I :z I 1996 that you remember contacting I here. 

A I would say Sob Nash, Patsy Thomasson was the 

[ii) Deputy Director of Presidential Personnel. Charles Duncan. 

t 15 1 the same name as mine, is an Associate Director of 

r2olPresidential Personnel. And then just a host of other junior 

t 2 11 assistants that would come and go and be detailed from other 

t2? jdepartments in and out to fax things and answer phones and to 

t23jmake phone calls. 

Il:jLewinsky. 

Q Tell us when you first heard the name Monica 
1034 

asA 

- 

Charies Duncan, 2118198 XMAX(3) 

Page 14 

-j,1996. 

A I believe it was some time in the beginning of 

.j. 

-. AQ How did 

J 

ou first hear her name? 

:4; I receive a call from somebody at Presidential 

: 5 ; Personnel, who I dont ’ recall, who called me. 

i‘‘ 

..> Q And they said they had some - 

._(, A A resume that they wanted to send over of - named 

iii Monica Lewinsky, that the 

ty 

wanted me to take a look at her 

13 1 resume and see If I could rnd a frt for her. 

.. 1 ‘

.-“I Q You dont ’ remember who the oerson was? 

. . . , _--! A I don% 

:.-1 

_--, Q Do you remember whether it was a male or female? 

“jl .- i A I dont. ’

;:41 0 Are you confident that it was a person in 

.. : I Presidential Personnel? 

:16: A Yes. 

: “‘ 0 And what did 

if 5 1 happened after the phone 7 

ou do with that information? What 

ca I? 

::41 A To the best of my recollection, I received a resume 

:I 3 1 and evaluated her on paper against the postttons that I had 

;:~lavailable at the time. 

:--, Q This is obviously one of those cases where you did 

i:;inot call the White House with an opening. 

A 

i;:iwould have notified 

Not necessan?, 

- every 

I very well - or rnr assistant 

nday, we have to no njr the 

Page 17 

[II A 

Q 

I dont ’ recall specifically. 

What would be the qualification for someone who ha3 

1:; held tha! pisition before? 

It was somewhat secretarial somewhat s 

i:iassistant. somebody who would answer phones, probab r 

cial 

lslsched-ie the Assistant Secretary. and also travel with the 

of Defense supporting the Assistant Secretary of 

Did you consider Ms. Lewinsky for any other 

I did not. 

So that was the - and you knew about - 

Im ’ sorry. I shouldnt ’ say I did not. I dont ’

[::iremember at this time. I dont ’ believe I considered her. I 

t lslthought she was a good fit for that particular position when 

tlslher resume came in and I had that vacancy. I may have sent 

t 17 1 her some place else, but I dont ’ think I did. 

Cl81 Q And then what did 

J 

ou do? 

I191 A I sent her resume own to Public Affairs. 

r201 Q To whom? 

1211 A I believe I sent it to Cliff Bemath. 

[221 0 

[23]K%UW? 

Did you talk to Mr. Bemath prior to sending the 

1241 A I dont ’ remember. 

1251 Q Did you talk to anyone else in Public Affairs prior 

Page 15 

7 11 White House of our vacancies. I dont ’ do that, m assistant 

izldoes that. The White House woutd have known XI at there were 

r3lvacancies in the buildin and its ’ updated every Frida 

Q Would it%, 

!:lvacancies 

fair to say that there are a L 

in the Deoartment of Defense? 

ays some 

j-l 

I61 A Yes.’ 

:?I Q So any time the White House initiates a contact 

! 3 ; with you, itAs far+2ps.say there s always some vacanaes. 

I91 

Q Okay. Did the person who call you from 

iif 1 Presidential Personnel with Monica Lewinskys ’ name say 

’ 12 1 whether it was for a specific position? 

!:31 A I dont ’ recall. 

::41 Q Ordinarily, would they do that? 

!!jI A Not necessarily. 

1163 Q So the wouldnt ’ call - if they were calling and 

::71saying, “Bob Smith I xave this candidate Bob Smith we know 

::31 ou have an o ening for X position, we want you to consider 

;I91 ii ob Smith for R posrtion? 

:201 A It is possible that the would make a phone and try 

-2IIto put an exact rson with an exa 

6 right. So lets ’

cl vacan 

.Y?, Q 

il;iYou get a copy of her resume. I-? 

et back to ’ ie?ewmsk 

ow ordina$doei the &rite 

::r IHouse transmit the resume to you? Let me ask this let me 

;:sl back up. Do you ordinarily get the resume from the White 

Page 16 

f 11 House or do you get it from the actual candidate? 

i?l A Normally, it comes from the White House first. 

I31 Q 

14 1 House? 

How do you ordinarily get the resume from the White 

!51 A By Fax. 

161 Q Do you remember whether you got Ms. Lewinskys ’

I 7 1 resume bv fax? 

IBi -A I dont ’ recall. 

I91 Q 

: I 0 revaluate it. 

Okay. Nonetheless, you get her resume and then you 

.__,~ 

!ill A Yes. 

i:21 Q 

tI3lwere evaluztrn 

And tell us what was going through your mind as you ; 

55 

her resume. 

he appeared on paper to be youn 

%. 

enough and with I 

~::~sufficient experience to fill a vacancy we had tn Pu kc 

ll6]AffairS. 

Q Which position? I 

:I71 

A It was a Special Assistant to the Assistant 

i:iiSecretary for Public Affairs. 

!201 0 Did that position exist prior to your receiving 

-;~lMs. Lewinskys ’ resume. 

;-,,- .--I A It did. 

:231 Q Was it open? 

:241 A It was open. 

:251 (1 How long had it been open for? 

Page 18 

rllto send theAresume? 

12: I dont ’ remember. 

131 0 

i4i 

Do you know Mr. Bemath on a first name basis? 

A Yes: 

Q Do ou know Mr. Bacon Ken Bacon, who was the he 

iziof Pub&c Affairs at 7 hat trme. do you know him on a first 

r 7 i name basis? 

iei A I do. 

Q Okay. So you could have picked up the phone and 

r~~~called either one of them. .--. 

(111 A Yes. 

Q Would that have been normal? That is, you get this 

i ::; resume in you know the position and this position was to be 

t II 1 an assistant ’ to Mr. Bacon, is thatconect? ’

[ISI A Thats ’ correct. 

0 Say, “Ken, I have this candidate for you, let me 

I :ti tell you abrt he.mWould that be ordinary? 

(181 

I191 Q Okay. You dont ’ remember doing that in this case? 

[201 A I dont ’ remember doin it. 

Q 

i::iThen whatAhap 

So you think you sen 8 the resume on to Mr. Bernath 

ns. as far.as you know? 

I231 r y my sending It down, Im ’ askin 

4 

them to consider 

t241the person. They should then call the person in or an 

r25lintenfiew. 

Page 19 

111 Q Do you send a cover memo or anything down? 

121 A Normal I would. 

I31 Q Do you 92 now whether you did in this case? 

141 A I dont ’ remember. 

Q Have you seen a memo, a cover memo, that you sen 

~~~along with Ms. Lewinskys ’ resume? 

[71 A I have not. 

Q So if 

Ii;other words that tha 

ou didnt ’ send it how would he know, in 

tlolconsidered io@ 

7 s ‘ what position she was going to be 

1111 A ff I didnt ’ send a memo, I would have called. 

1121 Q Okay. 

1131 A I wouldnt ’ have just sent a resume with nothing 

il4ian 

,I=,, 

:acbed to it. 

Q You either notii him in writing or by phone, 

;; 2; orallv that is. that she was to be considered for this 

i ;; iopening, tp position to be an assistant to Mr. Bacon. 

[I81 

(191 

Q ggcp.) 

ou send the resume down there - 

MR. WISENBERG: You didnt ’ get an audible answer on 

i:y;that. You aot a shake of the head. 

I221 

,721 ,&AI 

I241 

1251 

- . _ . - . . _ . 

Q Then what do you hear next? 

A She was intervtewed by someone in Public Affairs. 

OIC-Starr Page 14 to Page 19 
1035 

Charles Duncan. 2/18/98 

Page 20 

L I 1 Im ’ not sure who it was. And they notified me that they 

t 2 1 would like to offer her the position. 

131 Q Did you interview Ms. Lewinsky at that time? .-. 

141 

[51 

A I did-not. 

Q Did you ever interview Ms. Lewinsky? 

161 A I did not. 

0 Do you know whether anyone in Public Affairs ever 

ii 1 interviewed Ms. Lewinsky? 

1171 A I dont ’ know. 

Q 

I :i 1 an ordinary 

Do ou remember that this moved fast or slow or in 

amoun r of bme? That is the peri%I between when 

t 2 o 1 Ms. Lewinskys ’ resume was sent to you and when the Pentagon 

t 2 11 offered her a position? 

(221 A It moved relatively quiddy. It was relatively 

t23leffortless. 

Q Had 

i:: 1 between the first ca x 

ou talked to anyone etse at the White House 

you received from the White House and 

Page 21 

t~lthe time that she was offered a 

P 

sition? 

rz1 A About Lewinsky .-, 

[31 Q Yes. - 

I41 A I dont ’ remember. 

Q Did you men extend the offer to Ms. Lewinsky or 

Izjwould it have been people in Public Affairs to do it? 

[71 A I dont ’ believe I extended the offer. 

(81 Q What happens in the normal case? 

[91 A There is no normal. 

[lOI Q There is no normal? 

I111 A There is no normal. 

Cl21 Q 

A 

There are only two options here. 

Either my office would have extended the offer or 

I::ithe Off& of Public Affairs would have extended the offer. 

Q When you sa 

I:ziobviously sometimes you 

theres ’ no normal, does that mean - 

ex Y end and offer, sometimes the 

tl7loffice who; hirih~;te~nds an offer. 

riei 

Q Does that mean about 50 percent of the time you 

!:ilextend the offer and 50 wrcent of the time the hiring office 

i;;jextends the offer? 

[221 A I wouldnt ’ hazard to guess what percentage. I have 

[23jno idea. 

(241 0 

[251 A 

Why sometimes do you extend the offer? 

No specific reason. Absolutety no specrfic reason. 

Page 22 

Cl1 0 Is it normal and customary at the Pentagon to check : 

r71references on resumes? .-,- 

131 A Yes. 

[41 Q Who does that? 

A It could be done by either my office or the office 

izidoing the interviewing. I 

Q 

IB; ’ Ms. Lewinsky? 

Did your office check any references with regard to : 

I91 A 

0 

i :y ; Office of Public A aw. checked any references with 

To;e best of my knowledge, no. 

Do ou know whether the mng office, that is, the 

regard 

; 

r121to Ms. Lewinsky? t 

i13i A I dont ’ know. I 

1141 Q Does the White House place anv sort of ~rioritv , 

i;oiable to fit him &her? 

I:: iworking 

t23jelse. 

I.241 

f.251 

ress an interest in 

Page 23 

L: lwho would communicate it to me. say “He wants a job at the 

~2 !Pentagon, hes ’ interested in defense issues.” 

i:inotifying 

Q Was there an hrng special about the White House 

7 

ou in the case of f& Lewinsky? Did they 

[slindicate, or example, that she wanted to work at the 

[ 6 ] Pentagon? 

!7j A No. 

181 Q 

r 3 I House? 

Did they indicate why she was leaving the White 

[isj A Yes. 

111: Q Why? 

A The 

I::iaround the Oval 0 P 

rson who called me told me she was hanging 

ice too much. 

I141 Q 

il5i 

What else did the person say? 

A Nothing. 

I161 Q 

A 

What was your response or reaction to that? 

[I71 I instantly understood what the meant that it 

- having spent enough time in the West 

~:89$%ll confined s 

&ing aCavery 

r 201 anvwhere aroun CP 

ace and there is no space for extra people 

there. And I took it to mean that she was 

Page 24 

tllmuch? 

I21 A No. 

I31 Q 

I41 A 

That was the first and only time that occurred? 

Q 

To the best of my recollection. Yes. 

Was any other reason given why Ms. Lewinsky was 

Izlteaving theAWhkoHouse? 

171 

Q Did they indicate whether Ms. Lewinsky was leaving 

I891the White House voluntarily or involuntarily? 

[lOI A They did not. 

0 

I::iWhite House? 

Did they indicate whether she wanted to leave the 

Cl31 A They did not. 

Q 

i:::Presidential Personnel. 

How long+ was this conversation with this person in 

i16i A Several minutes. 

1171 Q What else do ou remember about the conversation? 

I181 A That the wan ed to be helpful in finding her a 

tlglposition outside of the Xlhite Louse because she was connected 

1201 o a finance person and they didnY want to offend that 

tzllperson. 

[221 Q 

1231 A 

Did they ive the name of the finance person? 

I dont ’ be B ieve so. 

1241 Q Does the name Walter Kaye ring a bell? 

I251 A Yes. 

Page 25 

111 Q 

A 

How does that name ring a bell? 

[21 

131 Q 

Only what Ive ’ read in the news 

A 

What have you read about Mr. R 

apers. 

aye? 

141 

iijintemship. 

That he was the person who recommended her for the 

C! Do you think Mr. Kayes ’ name may have been 

i76irnentioned by the person in Presidential Personnel? 

ccl A I dont ’ remember. 

191 Q 

I101 A 

What else do you remember from the conversation? 

That was it, as far as I know. as far as I can 

llllrecall. 

Q So basically three things were mentioned. One was 

i::ithat they wanted you to find a place for Ms. Lewinsky at the 

114 ~Pentagon and that they were going to send over a resume; 

trstthat she was leavin 

two. 

[16]arOUnd the Oval 0 f? 

the White House because she was hangng 

ice too much. Is that correct? 

A Well first off, they didnt ’ want me to find a 

I:i:place, they wanted me ‘ to try to place her at the Pentagon. 

tlsjAnd your second question? Im ’ sorry? 

0 Was that they said the reason she was leavin the 

i:yiWhite House, because she was hanging around the Oval off& 

t22ltoo much. 

[231 A Thats ’ correct. 

Q And then the third thing was that the relayed that 

i::ithey really wanted her to get a job because she ha 2 some 

Page 20 to Page 25 OIC-stan 
BSA 

1036 

Charles Duncan, 2l18I98 XMAX(5) _ 

Page 26 

i 1 lassouatron or affiliation with a businessman or - Im ’

t 2; sorry, I dont ’ want to put words rn your mouth. What were 

[ 3 1 the words ou used? 

f4! x I dont ’ recall exactly what they said. but I was 

(51 led to believe that she had some connections to an im rtant 

[ 6 1 person. a finance person, who they wanted to - they lr* idn t 

r,~want to offend. so therefore they were trvinq to be helpful 

; *; ir r-~:r- I...- ;,-,a.;,, . - 

II rlrlullly 1151 a”rlPsLllrlly. 

Q 

t:~{contributor? 

Did you understand this finance person to be a 

,111 A I didnt ’ auestion it. I didnt ’ think about it 

i ;; i They never indicated that to me, to ‘ the best of my knowledge. 

I131 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q 

i::ifar as vour experience aoes. is that correct. 

You said this was a relativev quick placement, as 

.--. 

1161 * A ’ Yes. ” 

Q Were you 

i :i; from office of Presidentia ? 

iven in this conversation with the perscn 

Personnel, were you iven a 

I 191 turnaround time. like a tarctet date, like we want 7 o do this 

ilojquiddy? 

I211 A I dont ’ remember. 

Q Were you given any special instructions other than 

$iiwhat youve ’ told us? 

A To the best of my knowledge. I dont ’ recall them 

i::{being any more specific than that. 

Page 27 

Was there something about this that was out of the 

it 1 ordinary in the sense that it was more directly telling than 

t 9 1 asking, thi; hasNto be done? 

191 

I101 Q Whens ’ the shortest time7 You said theres ’ no 

[ 111 normal time for placement, whats ’ the shortest time ou can 

tlzlremember in which anyone in this 

I I 3 1 trvina to place has been placed? ?hortes/)tumarou$ bme 

pe of osrtron w o youre ’

i14jyt)u bn remember. ._ 

(151 

161 

; plsr the time I receive a resume? 

.lTl A 

t~siworking? 

Until the time they walk in the door and start 

1191 Q Yes. 

1201 A 

Q 

Probably three weeks. 

And do you recall how long Monica Lewinskys ’

IZiplacement was? 

[231 A I dont. ’

I:zjAfiairs? 

Q You said you sent her name down to - is it Public 

Page 28 

A Yes. 

And was she the only name you sent down for that 

s 20 percent, 15 to 20 percent. 

ere any problem that youre ’ aware of - 

i :t jblr. Bittman asked you about reference checks, is there an 

t13fproblem that you recall, any issue that.arose. as a result o ? 

t 14 1 any reference check done on Ms. Lewrnsky? 

[ISI A None that I know of. 

Q 

I :t f Keating. about her. 

Didlou ever talk to her previous supervisor. Tii 

LIB1 A I did not. 

1191 Q In this conversation with the person from office of 

t z o j Presidential Personnel, what if anything was said about a 

t3 11 ersonal relationship Ms. Lewinsky might have had with the 

fzz]&esident? 

I231 A 

Q 

Nothing like that was ever mentioned. 

Was anything like that ever mentioned to you by 

iI:ianybody prior to the time period that this became a 

dIGstarr 

-. __ . 

Page 29 

I 1 -nationwide issue that evervbodv In the counttv knows about? 

ts;she would be, Ms. Lewinsky would be, coming back to the White 

[ 6: House? 

i:: A No. 

[@i Q Was there any time limit put on how long she would 

r91need .~. to be at the Pentagon? 

I101 A No. ” 

Q Was anything said to 

i :: jabout President Clintons ’ wishes or 

ou durin this conversation 

2. esrres wrt 3 

j 13lthe placement of Ms. Lewinsk ? 

respect to 

114: A No. President k, lrnton was never mentioned in this 

ilsicontext. 

I :z &~is to 

Q You said that you thought-when somebody said 

[ le imuch 

au 

t r; 

about she was hanging around the Oval office too 

at youve ’ been over to the West Wing. you know how 

t19rconfined it IS and you wouldnt ’ want to have a person in the 

rzc!way. something to that effect. Do you recall saying that a 

r .~~. 21% few minutes aao? 

I221 A -Yes. 

Q 

i::isays. We ‘ ve ’ got to place this person. 

What else did that say todou? Somebody calls you, 

e cant ’ offend the 

tz5jfinance person. Shes ’ been hanging around the Oval Dffice 

Page 30 

t 11 too much.” What else does that say to you? Youre ‘ in that 

rz~position, youre ’ hearing &hat. 

(3: A Nothing. 

141 

isl 

0 Okav. Have YOU ever heard the term dutch? 

A Yes.. - 

I,“; 

Q All right. Did you think this person was a dutch? 

A Possrbly. 

[B! Q Can 

A A du 1 ch is somebody who - I believe its ’ a 

ou tell us what a dutch is? 

r:~jpolitical term, somebody who likes to be near somebody famous 

f11:or the principal. 

Q Mr. Bittman mi 

I ::i think he asked you precisely t 8 

ht have asked you this, I dont ’

IS way was there ever any 

114 iother time when you were asked to piace somebody who was 

rls;soendina too much time around the Oval office? 

il&j - A I dont ’ recall that. No. 

[l?i MR. WISENBERG: I believe thats ’ all I have. 

118i BY MR. BIENERT: L--1 

I191 Q Ii f I understand it its ’ your job to handle - do 

tzoiyou do a lot of the hiring, then, for certain of the sectors 

tz~jof the Pentagon? 

1221 A I dont ’ do the hirina. I facilitate the hirina and 

i ;3j I refer candidates. 

” 

124: Q And you get more resumes sent to you than you hav 

t25lopenings, correct? 

II? 

I21 

Page 31 

A Yes. 

Q So its ’ somewhat selective. correct? 

;:i 

A Yes. 

r5iamect? 

Q And youre ’ trying to get the best people you can, 

.~. 

176; 

A Correct. 

Q And when you were told that the reason they wanted 

[e i to place this woman in the White House, Ms. Lewinsky. was 

~slbecause she was hanging around the Oval office too much, you 

rlojrecogntzed that that was not a positive reason for wanting to 

[ 11 Imove her rt o;;ttiyite House, correct? 

(121 

Q This was something that didnt ’ reftect positiiely 

[::lon her abiit ak;n employee. did it? 

[IS1 

Q She was not the ideal candidate, based on what you 

Ii;iwere told over the phone was she? 

A The n atbe characterization about her time at the 

i:i;White House would no “9 be a factor at an agency because it 

jzojwasnt ’ the White House, it was a bigger department. If she 

rz1j had a clutch problem or likin to be near the seat of power 

1221 robtem, it wouldnt ’ exist in t ?I e Pentagon which is a huge, 

[23] 3 6.000 person, 6.5 million square foot building. 

[24! Q Let me make sure I understand, sir. Youve ’

trsjacknowledged to us that you use some selecttvrty in whose 

Page 26 to Page 31 
1037 

BSA Charles Duncan, 2118198 XMAX(6) 

Page 32 

.-. , I I resum 

I21 

es yp pass on. correct? 

Yes. 

I31 Q Because there are more people who want those jobs 

IP lthan there are iobs available. riaht? ..‘. 

I51 A Thats ’ corred. - 

i:iwas 

Q 

being 

Is it your testimony that being told that someone 

moved out of the White House because of a problem 

[B 1 is not a negative fador that you would take into 

rslconsideration as to whether they should be hired in one of 

rlolvour jobs? 

illi- . A No. 

1121 Q 

[131 A 

Are you sa in no, thats ’ not your testimony or - 

Q 

That is my res?imony. Yes. 

Cl41 It wouldn t factor at all. 

[ISI MR. BENNETT: You have to answer audibty. 

1161 THE WITNESS: Im ’ sorry? 

1171 MR. BENNEIT: You have to answer out loud. 

1181 THE WITNESS: 

BY MR. BIENERT: 

Oh, yes. 

I191 

I201 0 Did you feel any pressure to try to find a job for 

Izllher? 

I221 A No more than I would feel for anybody else. 

iZ:;else - 

Q Anybody else applying from any setting or anybody 

[251 A Anybody else - 

Page 33 

Ill Q Let me finish my question. 

[21 A 

Q 

Anybody else - Im ’ sorry. 

So its ’ clear on the record. Anybody else in any 

i:{setting sending you a resume or an 

(51referred by someone at the White x 

body else who is being 

ouse tells you see if you 

[ 6 1 can find th;m a spot? 

I did not feel any more pressure coming from the 

IilWhite House for this appointment than I have felt with many, 

(9 1 many other appointments. 

;?Ol BY MR. WISENBERG: 

1111 0 

[ 12 1 Lewinsky? 

Did you ever talk to Marsha Scott about Monica 

I131 A I dont ’ believe so. 

Q Could she have been the person you spoke to, who 

I :;I had this co:versation with ou? 

1161 I dont ’ recal 7 who spoke to me. 

I171 Q It could have been anybody from the head of 

[ 18 1 Presidenti: Personnel, Mr: Nash - 

It was definitely not Mr. Nash. 

i:ziMr. Nash, I would have remembered it. 

If it had been 

1211 0 All right. Would you have remembered if it was 

12 2 1 Patsy Thomasson? 

1231 A No, I wouldnt ’ recall. 

[241 0 Oka So it could have been Patsy Thomasson. 

[zs]Could it have been Ll arsha Scott? 

Page 34 

A Its ’ conceivable it could have been. I dont ’ even 

!:; recall when Marsha Scott went to work in Presidential 

; 

[ 3) Personnel. so I dont ’ believe it could have been Marsha Scott 

[I ‘ lbecause I think she was working in another part of the 

[ 51 building. 

Q The one person 

i ;; Presidential Personnel is Bob NY 

ou can say for sure it wasnt ’ from 

ash. 

; 

A Thats ’ correct. 

I121 

I131 

[I41 BY MR. BInMAN: 

i23i A No. - 

I241 

1251 2 This what is is a it? document that I believe is produced by 

Page 32 to Page 37 

Page 35 

[ 11 the hiring office as part of the process of bringing sc?ebody 

r21on and getting them through the personnel depattme?:s. 

131 Q 

A 

Explain that, please. 

141 I dont ’ know all the steps that - I will never 

[ 5 1 ling long enough to know all the steps that take place m 

lslhinn 

3, 

somebody in thls,gov$rnment. There are many. many 

17 1 peep, on the uv~l service side that process - once tne 

[ 8 1 dectslon has been made to process a person, whe+&r theyre ’

[ 9 1 non-career or career this - I know it cant ’ be done vr?.hout 

[lolcertain forms being f;lled out. 

This is a form that would have been produced by 

I:: ;Assistant Secretary Bacons ’ office to accompany other things 

[13land trigger her recess. 

1141 Q ?o be hired 

iisi A To be hired. 

I161 Q Ms. Lewinsky. 

I171 A s ‘ name on it. 

riei Q 

It doesnt ’ say Ms. Lewinsk 

In fact, it doesnt ’ have any Ld ys ’ name on it. 

1191 A Thats ’ correct. 

[201 Q It just has a position. 

1211 A Thats ’ correct. 

Q And then if you could look at the second two 

i::iof that. that is a description of the position for which Ms. 

[24 ]Lewir&y was ultimately hired, it appears. Is that wtiat it 

[zslappears to you? 

pages 

Page 36 

A I dont ’ remember looking at hers. tts ’ possible 

i:ithat this is a position description for that position. But 

[3lthis.is a typical position description for a confidential 

[ 4 1 assistant. 

Q 

iz;was an openin 

What document would there be telling you that there 

in Public Affairs? 

171 A 7 would have received a oosition description =llrh 

iti i as this. the second two pa es. 

I91 Q me secon 8 . 

..-.. ““_.. 

1101 A Yes. 

two pages? 

1111 0 And that is not dated. I dont ’ believe. .--. 

[I21 

f131 

A It is not. 

Q The first document - 

i14i A Is dated. 

[I51 Q Is dated. And whats ’ the date? 

[I61 A April 12, 1996. 

Q 

::78;document, 

Would it be unusual for the date on the first 

the first page of CD-l, to be the same day that 

[ 19 1 Ms. Lewinsky was hired? 

\:!; hired. 

A Its ’ unlikely it would have been the day shes ’

tt more than likely would have been the day that the 

[ 22 1 process started to hire her. 

t231 . Q 

[24lhinng? 

Okay. That is the day she was recornmende 

I251 A To the building, from the Assistant Secretary 

!d for 

of 

Page 37 

[ 11 Defense to the civil service 

0 Have you tal P 

rsonnel process folks. 

ed to anyone in the last month about 

[lithe hkng if Ms+.twinsky other than your attorney? 

[41 

r51 Q Who? 

161 

[71 Aa ~~~~;:$t$~s~~~&l? 

rei A Ite had several discussions with her. 

191 Q And tell us the contents of those discussions. 

A I dont ’ recall all of them. The were mostly my 

{:y iamazement that all this was occurring with Id 

1121 Q 

A 

This being what? 

onlca Lewinsky. 

The controversy that has exploded in the newspaper 

i ::i in the month of January. 

Q Did you talk to Ms. Bailey about how she came to be 

i:zihired at the Pentagon’ 

Cl71 A Yes, I did. 

1181 0 What did ou tell her? 

A Exact1 

~:~~unremarkable hirir 

w b at Ive ’ told ou. that it was a rather 

,;1, but that she haJbeen referred over to 

[zl]us as somebody w o was hanging around the Oval Office too 

122 imuch and they wanted to try to place her outside of the White 

/23)tiOlJ=. 

I241 Q And what was her reaction or response? 

1251 A I dont ’ recall what her reaction was. 

OlC-starr 
1038 

au Charles Duncan. 2118198 

Page 38 

IuAIs-7, ‘

Page 41 

.:; Q Did you talk to anyone else other than Ms. Bailey 

: 2 1 and your attome ? 

i3i A I r alked to Lanny Breuer in the White House 

[ 4 1 Counsels Office. 

:jl Q When was that? 

!61 A Some time late in January. 

i71 Q How many times did you talk to Mr. Breuer? 

9, ‘ A Several times. 1-1 

is1 Q How many? 

!ioi 

[ill 

II21 

1131 

A Three, I believe. 

Q Were these in-person meetings or telephonically? 

A One was in person. 

Q And the other two? 

i14j A On the telephone. 

::51 Q 

::61 

Were the4 all in the same time period? 

A Im ’ sorry. 

jl7, Q You sard you had three meetings beginning in late 

; :sl January. When were the other two meetings? 

A They all probably would have taken place over a 

f iijtenday period, the three contacts. 

El1 Q Okay. And what did ou tell Mr. Breuer? 

r-71 A My understanding is & e Executive Branch has 

i 5; j indicated that conversations are covered by executive 

124 jprivilege that I have with Mr. Breuer. 

I251 Q So youre ’ not going to tell us the conversations 

Page 39 

L 1 lyou had with him? 

!?I A Thats ’ correct. 

i31 Bnef mterru bon to proceedings.) 

ir; 8YMR. ’ B&MAN: 

ISI Q Anyone else besides - and how long did you meet 

_-> 6 I with Mr. Breuer? 

171 A Approximately ten minutes. 

:?I Q And that was in the White House? 

:91 A Yes. 

Q Oka How long was your first telephone 

iit jconversation with hxr. Breuer? 

. . . . .--I A 

::31 Q 

A proximately three minutes. 

t-6~ long was your second telephone conversation 

: 4 1 with Mr. Breuer? 

ifsi A About two or three minutes. 

i:Qithey were 

Q Okay. The meeting and then the two phone calls, 

only about Monica Lewmsky and the hiring of Monica 

: 1 s j Lewinsky? 

A No, they were about the - I called Lanny Breuer 

iiii because I had been contacted by the Independent Counsels ’

: 2 I ~oftice for an interview. And I contacted Bob Nash and told 

,sj i him that and he suggested that I inform Lanny Breuer that I 

;~ljhad done that. 

0 Have you talked to anyone else besides Ms. Bailey. 

ig:lMr. Breuer and now Mr. Nash about anything regarding Monica 

Page 40 

1.1 j Lewinsky in the last month? And your attorney. 

r21 A Numerous people. Countless people. 

131 Q Countless people? 

I41 A Countless. 

0 So ou were willi 

jziyou werent ’ ready r o talk to an FB “9agent? 

to tell countless people, but 

171 

i 8 i agent. 

A I never said I wasnt ’ willina to talk to an FBI 

r91 Q 

A 

Okay. How many other people did you tell? 

1101 I dont ’ recall. 

r111 BY MR. BENNETT: 

Q 

f::;spoken with. 

Tell us some of the other people you might have 

A Other people in the administration who knew that I 

i :“si was the White House liaison at the Department of Defense and 

tl6jwho would call and ask me if I knew her. 

!I71 0 

A 

Name some of these people. 

::;;McCoy. 

My assistant now, my current assistant now, Elena 

i201 Q Did you talk to anyone in the news media? 

1211 A Yes. 

I-'21 Q Who? 

1231 A Gene Gibbons from Reuters. 

,741 Q Anvone else? .-., 

I-51 ‘

ii No: 

Q Did you talk to anyone else at the White House 

/:ibesdes Mr. Breuer and Mr. Nash? 

[31 A I dont ’ believe I did. 

1231 A hs ’ ssible. 

Q Wefl” 

i::igo that she had a pro % 

iven the fact that you were told at the 

tern with hanging around the Oval OflEJ 

Page 42 

t I 1 too much, do you believe that Ms. Lewinsky would be a good 

tz jcandidate to be sending to the White House for Pentagon 

t 31 related duties? 

I41 A Its ’ not something that ever occurred to me. 

151 Q Why not? 

A It ust ‘ sim 

:76;her down to Pub rIC ’ Affairs plbr a position in Public Affairs. 

never occurred to me. I was sending 

re1 Q 

A 

Im ’ sorry, tell me that again? 

I sent her down to Public Affairs at the Pentagon 

r:zifor a position in Public Affairs. Whether or not that ever 

t I 11 led to her ever 

112 lever considere 3 

oing to the White House is not something I 

Q Well, let me ask you. At the time that you sent 

i::iher down to Public Affairs, you were aware that there was a 

[ 1s) 

II 61 han she should. correct? $--, P 

roblem with her spending more time around the Oval office 

I171 A ves. 

Q Did you pass that on to anyone who might be in the 

I::; loop on hiring her? 

I201 A I did not. 

[211 Q Was there a reason why 

1221 A I didnt ’ feel it was relevan r . 

ou did not? 

Q Well, let me ask 

7 

ou, as you sit here now, do you 

I::;beliive that it might be rekvant o a boss who is thinking 

r2sjabout who to send to the White House for something whether or 

Page 43 

from the White House for a 

I::ithe White House Press Office and the Off& of Public Affairs 

t 24 1 at the Department of State, Department of Defense and other 

rzsldepartments to coordinate messages. 

OIC-Stari Page 38. to Page 43 
1039 

-- ICI 

-. .- _~----- 

Charles Duncan, 2l18i98 

- ..-~- 

XMAX(8) . 

Page 44 

Q Okay. Let me back up because I have to admit Im ’

:iithoroughly confused and I a logize if Im ’ the only one. 

ill Do vou believe - ps ets lust start from scratch. 

;; i Do ou belie& there is or is not b connection between the 

(5 ] .ob hat ou sent Ms. Lewinsky down for, namely a job in 

[7]klhii? H!uie? 

;6] ubllc A airs at the Pentagon, and a potential to visit the 

(@I A I do not believe there is. No. 

tg1 Q 

ii01 A 

And why do you believe there is no connection? 

The position as it was described to me was a 

[ I I] confidential assistant to the Assistant Secreta 

1:2 ltime traveler with the Secretary of, Defe,nse an d‘ ’ 

and some 

there was 

] 13 ] never any mention of any inteqcbon wtth the Whne H+e., 

!141 0 So you wouldn t expect that n he~~ib&n:“,-the 

I 1 s ] Pentagon she would have a reason to go to the 

Page 45 

111 Q So am I accurate, then, you dont ’ know for sure 

r 11 that hes ‘ the one who interviewed her, but you assume that 

Q Now.-when did you leave your position at the 

ii ; j Pentagon? 

,:I ‘ A I left the oosition in. I believe. late Februarv or 

;i;;early Mar& of 1997 on a detail tothe ’ Depaitment of Stat& 

!l4] Q Prior to the time that you left the Penta on, do 

[ 15 ] ou 

[ 161 1 ewmsky was a ood not so 

have any basis to have any knowledge as to whet % er Ms. 

[I71 A 

Q 

Af thereports ’ ? 

ood or a terrific employee? 

got here very positive. 

And were they positive in these sense of kind of 

I:iipar for the course about someone working in that department 

[20 ]or was there somethin 

!2 11 glowing than you woul % 

about her reports that were even more 

normally ex 

A 

p”ct to see? 

Par for the course. I was a good fit. She was 

ii:iperforming her duties well. It was all in all just a good 

[24]appointm@nt. 

[2S1 Q Did you ever learn while you were still working at 

all 

Page 46 

(11 the Penta on or hear that Ms. Lewinsky might be looking for 

12 ~another joAelsk;yre? -% 

131 

t41 0 Has there ever come a time, whether its ’ been 

1s) through press or othemise, that you obtained information, 

[ 6]indicatin that she was at some point looking for another job 

t7 loutside t 3, 

[El 

,Pen:,,pn? 

t91 Q 

t101 A 

And how did you learn that? 

Q 

Only whats ’ been reported in the press. 

Have you had any conversations with anyone since 

I :: 1 reading those reports in the press about Ms. Lewinskys ’

[ 131 efforts to find ajpb outside of the Pentagon? 

I141 A NO. 

Q Based on your understanding of the persons in place 

I :zi in relation to Ms. Lewinsky in late 1997. who are the people 

[ 171or persons, who is the person or persons, if tire are more 

t 18 Ithan one, that if an outside employer was looking for 

[ 19 ] references to hire Ms. Lewinsky you would expect them to 

rzolcontact? 

I211 A The Office of Public Affairs. 

I221 Q And who would be the person or persons there that 

I 2 3 I you would expect - 

!24l A Cliff Bemath. 

I251 Q Have you discussed at all since the allegations in 

Pa& 44 to Page 49 

Page 47 

I I 1 the Dress have arisen anvthing about Ms. Lewmskv with Cliff 

i 5 j Beniath? 

_ - 

131 A 

Q 

Ive ’ had one phone conversation with Cliff. 

II, ..a And what was said in that conversation? 

A He called me to let me know that he had given a 

Iii background interview to The Washington Post and that my name 

] 7 ] came up in that interview. 

IElinterview? 

Q And how did he say your name came up in that 

II01 A 

Q 

In the context of bein.g the White.House liaison. 

I :: lconversation relating to Ms. Lewmsky 

Did he tell you anythin$$ else dunng that 

A He recanted what he recalled -well he told me in 

I::!verv aeneral terms what he had told the reporter adout the 

ilsjhirififprocess. 

1161 0 Okay. And was therean 

(17 ] that conversation that is different than 

fling t$at he told you in 

at you ve told us 

I I 8 Ithat YOU knew based on your knowledge? 

i19i - A No. - 

r201 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

I211 Q You said he recanted. Did you mean he recounted? , 

t221 A Imso ’ . Herecounted. 

[231 MR. WISE%ERG: 

BY MR. BIENERT: 

Sorry. Go ahead. 

t241 

t251 Q Is that coned? You did mean he recounted? 

Page 48 

t11 A Yes. 

t21 Q Is that a yes? 

I31 A Yes. 

Q When 

I : 1 often would you visit t x 

ou were in your position at the Pentagon, how 

e White House? 

(61 A Irregularly. 

t71 0 Meaning what? 

I61 A There was no set schedule, it would vary from weei 

[s]to week. 

Q Well how long were 

! :yi Pentaoon where vo; were Ii&on w ir 

ou in the position at the 

.--. h the White House? 

1121 - A 

Q 

Aiproximately three and a half ears. 

And during that three and a ha If year time, give us 

:::;a ballpark figure of how many times you would personally go 

[ ls]to the White House on business. 

A It would be a real wild guess. I mean, a 

ii76;completely wild guess. I would have gone there 

rls]many as a hundred times. 

- maybe as 

0 Was it part of your job function and yqur position 

i:ziat the qentagon to actual1 

I;;; meet with f(eopfe;: the &% i%$~eg”lar hass ’ and 

Q And was that because ou had business related 

i::iissues to discuss with persons at the tie House? 

t251 A Thats ’ coned 

Page 49 

0 And who would you meet with at the White House n 

i:iyour position at the Pentagon when you would go there? 

I31 A Its ’ conceivable that I would have met with any one 

14 ]of the offices within the White House, whether it was 

c 5 ]Presidential Personnel or Public Affarn or Public Liaison or 

[6]PESSOftiCC 

171 Q Did you ever meet with the President on any of 

] 8 1 those meetings when you would go to the White House? 

191 A On occasion. 

Q How many times in the three and a half 

I:iiyou worked at the Pentagon as White House liaison di iI 

ears that 

[ 12 ] meet with the President at the White House? 

you 

t131 A I never had a meeting with the President. I would 

114 ]be there at the White House and do thin s with the President. 

L 15 ] It wasnt ’ for a 

[161 0 

,171 A 

i;;jPresident would participate in. 

0 And you wouldnt ’ necessarily have to just sit in 

i$!{and discuss with the President the logistics of an event, 

--.- _~ -.-.- -....- 

OIC-Starr ‘
1040 

Charles Duncan, 318198 

Page 50 

!91 A Countless times. 

:I01 Q Let me finish the question because KS easier 

;:llforIlil A Im ’ sorry. 

iI31 0 How man times during the three and a half years 

: 14 Ithat you were liaison at t z e Pentagqn.or liaison to tile White 

,151 House from the Pentagon did you.srt In alone,wrtrr the 

i 15 1 President.ir stand, meet alone wrth the Presrden3 

i171 I dont ’ remember. 

ilRl Q Can vou oive us an estimate? .--A 

1191 

:201 

i2ll 

1121 

[231 

!241 

1251 

A I co& nd. 

AQ pet!, is it more than ten? 

Q More than a hundred? 

A I doubt that its ’ more than a hundred. 

MR. BIENERT: I think thats ’ all I have. Sol. 

A JUROR: You are familiar with the position that 

Page 51 

[ 11 Bill Richardsons ’ office was 

[zjwith the UN.? Are 

oing to offer Monica Lewinsky 

THE WIThESS: I ‘ am not. 

ou fami rar with that at all? 

131 

ldl 

i; i guess. 

A JUROR: c Just - I auess vou can oive me a oocd 

WouM you consider it a gromotion from &er positiok 

[6jrn the Pentagon in Public Affairsto the U.N. worlug in Bill 

[71Richardsons ’ office? Would you consider that a promotlon? 

THE WITNESS: I dont ’ know. It would de 

!iiwhat the position was. It could be a lateral move. r 

nd on 

Bot Ken 

*iolBacon and Ambassador Richardson are 

1 I 1 jwith Senate confirmation. Ambassador 8 

residenhal appointees 

rchardson outranks Ken 

.--,, ; I 2 1 Bacon because hes ’ a cabinet member. so hes ’ a hisher ranking 

: :s 1 individual. Yes. 

A JUROR: 

i::iof him bein 

So do you consider it 

:I61 #I 

a cabinet member from the - 

E WITNESS: Yes. if she 

Public arotion piairs - becaJse 

were to go work directly 

! ;; i for Ambassador Richardson, she would be repornng to a higher 

i 1s j ranking official. 

!lQ, A JUROR: Was her performance - or do YOU know if 

[Iii her performance in the Pentagonwas ’ so stellar that it wouM 

rz~lwarrant or it would be logical or the next logical step for 

!22 1 her would be a 

THE RITNESS: 

romotion of this type? 

;231 l don t know the s cs of her 

[24]perfomIance other than to know that they were y with the 

f251appointment. 

Page 52 

(11 A JUROR: They meanin who? 

THE WITNESS: 

I:; I never hear about - 

The off? ce of Public Affairs. 

ou never hear about the people who 

14 leverybodys ’ ha y. 

15, 

L-1 BY f&g WtSENB RG: 

#ou ‘ on2 hear about the probtems. 

[61 Q And she wasnt ’ a roblem that ycu heard about? 

171 A She wasnt ’ a prob & m at all. 

[El A JUROR: All right. Thank 

[91 MR. WlSENBERG: Yes? 2 o ahead. 

ou. 

A JUROR: Does Monica Lewinsky till work at the 

i :yi Pentagon or was she fired or did she resign or what happened? 

THE WITNESS: I only know what I Learn in the press 

I::land it says that she resi ned in December. 

A JUROR: 7s it part of the normal pmctice when 

I : , ‘ i emplo ees or prospective employees are interviewed for 

f 16jpossrb 3 appomtrnents like this for any kind of rmtten 

[ 17 1 record to be made of the interview? You know, an interview 

[ 1 e 1 report or some other form of - 

Ll91 THE WITNESS: No. 

A JUROR: You know, in my casual knowled 

i :y lworking at the Pentagon, a highly secure positii - was 

e of 

ii at 

122 jconsidered a hi hl secret position or was it just open? 

I31 ’ THE ?VlvlfNESS: I believe it required a top secret 

(24 jsecurity clearance, but thats ’ very, very common withrn the 

[rsjdepartment. The janitors have to have secunty ciearances. 

XMAX(S)- 

Page 53 

: : 1 Everybody has to have a security clearance. 

.-1 .-I BY MR. BIENERT: 

0 I ust ‘ want to make sure I understand. She would 

I a i have interviewe d 

r 5 Iwhats ’ his name? 

for the Pentagon position with Cliff - 

j_61 A Bernath. 

Q 

/ ; iwho interviewed her and made the decision to hire her, 

Bernath. And that is to your knowledge a person 

: 9 1 correct? 

I101 A There may have been others, but he would have bee 

: : 1 j the chief person to intervrew. 

I:21 Q And this was interviewing her for a spot where then 

1: 3 j she was to work as an assistant for whom? 

(141 A 

Q 

For Ken Bacon, the Assistant Secretary. 

And Ken Bacon as ou indicated, is a fairly high 

i .-~. izirankina oresidentiallv aooointed o 2. 

;1i1 -’ A Correa.’ ” 

rcral. 

0 In the hiring at the Pentagon, I take it reading 

ii:ibetween the lines its ’ not usual for the presidential 

: 20 1 appointee, in this case, ‘ Mr. Bacon, to interview a lower 

, I I I level staff person like Ms. Lewinsky for the job. Is that 

i 22 j accurate? 

i231 A No. I believe he would have interviewed her as 

j24jwell. 

1251 0 Okay. So thats ’ what Im ’ getting at. 

Page 54 

iflfact. 

A And he more likely did. I dont ’ know that for a 

Q Well other than Mr. Bernall. is there anybody else 

i :{ that you are assuming did interview her? 

[51 A 

161 Q 

Im ’ assuming Ken Bacon interviewed her as well. 

Anyone else that you would have assumed to have 

! 7 1 interviewed her? 

A I dont ’ know. Its ’ a huge department. I dont ’

iijwant to make any more assumptions than Cliff because he was 

1 ;o 1 the operations person in personnel matters and Ken Bacon 

i : 11 because she would have re orted directly to him. 

[I21 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

I131 Q Its ’ Bemath, right? 

I?41 A Bemath. 

(151 Q B-e-r-n-a-t-h, right? 

::61 A Thats ’ correct. 

::71 MR. WISENBERG: Go ahead. 

ii81 BY MR. BIENERT: 

0 And then other than the many times that you have 

i 1: 1 dealt with logistical preparations for something with the 

:2 11 President, have there been any other reasons in your job 

,2 2 I function for YOU to meet with the President? 

i23i A- No. 

A JUROR: One more question. Was that a usual 

I:!,; thing, for an intern to go over into the Pentagon kind of 

Page 55 

I 11 setting? Was that a usual kind of thing? 

THE WITNESS: When she came to the Pentagon. she 

t:!was not an intern. She was a paid staff - in a paid staff 

14 lposition in L islatiie Affaiis. 

(51 BY%R WISENBERG: 

Q How common is it if you know for any White House 

I:; intern to go directly into a staff position eitherat ’ the 

f s IWhite House or in the OEOB or in the Executive Branch? 

I91 A I dont ’ know 

0 Did the President ever discuss, ever, Monica 

i :y 1 Lewinsky with you? 

r121 A No. 

I131 Q You mentioned that you had talked to one individual 

[ 14 1 in the press since this thing has become public? 

A Yes. - 

Q- Did anybody instruct you to do that or suggest that 

r151 

::76!you do that? 

I181 A Yes. 

(191 Q Who was th 

!201 A Joe Lockhal 

!?ll 0 All riaht. Ar 

lat? 

ft. 

.--I id tell us who Joe Lockhart is. 

A 

: :G; White House. 

I beligve he is the Deputy Press Secretary at the 

Q All ri 

ig!.:the conversation be 

ht. And what did Mr. Lockhart - recount 

ft, een yourself and Mr. Lockhart about this 

OIC-Starr Page 50 to Page 55 
I 

1041 

BSA Charles Duncan. 2118198 

~--- 

XMAX~lOl 

Page 56 

r 11 matter. 

r11 A I had ..-- been ---.. receivina .---..- a dearee of calls from various 

;;; members of the press and I declrn&f to-s&aktdanv of them. 

j 4 j Gene Grbbons wz IS one of the more a 

my. 8ccasionally. I wouk? 

rkiie ones ’ callin me, 

r 5 1 I think six or seven times in one da _ 

t 6 lcall Joe Lockhart and let hrm know that so and sowas 

t7jcalli 

Tjust so that they would know that thevre ’ calhna 

j 9 j me. m not quite sure why I tokl h in, but Is& known .Toe 

tglfor 17 years. 

Gene Gibbons had called me several times, I believe 

I:!iabout six times on one particular day. I refused to take all 

jlzlof hrs calls. And then Joe Lodthart called me and said that 

j 131 he dtint ’ see the harm in talking to thii particular 

I 14 1 re0orter. he iust needed daritication on the process of 

iisjhiiing somebod 

MR. \)(JISENBERG: l hate to say - I do have only 

~:~~about seven or eight questions, but you all know what that 

t 1s 1 can mean. Do we want to - I notice some restlessness. 

t 191 Would we like to take our break at thii point in hme? 

1201 THE FOREPERSON: Yes. I think wed ’ better. 

Ii:ibreak? 

MR. WISENBERG: Okay. Well ’ take a ten-minute 

1231 THE FOREPERSON: Mm-hmm. 

MR. WISENBERG: Okay. We will not have very much ! 

i:l;rnore afler that, but were ’ going to take a ten-minute break. 

Page 57 

111 Ma I 

121 HE FOREPERSON: 

[31 MR. WISENBERG: 

[41 

(51 

Q You are the same Mr. Duncan whos ’ been testifying 

i : i here this afternoon? 

181 A Yes, I am. 

(91 Q You mentioned an assistant of yourself or somebody 

f 10 1 else named Melissa and we didnt ’ get her last name and we 

f~~lneed it for the record. 

[l?l A My assistant currently? Elena McCoy. 

[I31 0 Melina? 

[I41 A Elena, E-l-e-n-a, McCoy. 

Cl51 Q All right. We were tatking about - I understand 

[ 16tyoure ’ going out of town for two weeks at 630. is that 

(17lwrrect. 

I181 A THAts ’ correct. 

Q 

[:ijwho you say youve ’ known for 17 years. 

Where were we? We were talking about Mr. Lockhart I 

;5:;19e3. 

A Yes. I think I overstated that. I met him in 

I231 

I241 

[251 

Q Okay. Fifteen years. 

A Fifteen years. 

Q He authorized you or suggested that you talk to 

Page 58 

11 Ithis aggreTivere:orter. is that correct? 

121 

131 Q 

141 A 

And what did he tell you tell this reporter? 

He didnt ’ tell me to tell him, he just said, 

t5j”l think you can feel comfortable taking to him.” 

I61 Q All right. And what was your 

f7labout - I think you mentioned sornetbing 

eneral understanding 

f 3 1 about takin 

be B ore we broke 

him throu h the process or something like that. 

f 9tWhat was I .? that you fe R authorized to tell this re tier 

f lolabout based on our conversation with Mr. Lock r art? 

Ill1 A l%at in my opinion hiring Monica Lewinsky was a 1 

f121~ letely unremarkable task. effort, motion. It was just I 

f13~anot r one like all the others. / 

[141 Q The process of it? 

f151 A The process of it. 

I161 Q 

I 17 Ithrs reporter? 

Okay. And is that essentiaky what you conveyed to 

ilSi A Yes. 

0 Has there ever been any other occasions when Mr. 

i:z;Lockhart authorized you to give background information or any 

.~~. I 2 1 I kind of information to the press? 

I221 A No. 

II:iabout? 

0 Is that something you typically interface with him 

I251 A Im ’ usually not called by the press. 

Page 59 

[I: Q Okay. Does that mean - so you typzaily dont ’

t2:mterface wtth Lockhart about that. 

(3: A Thats ’ correct. 

Q But you understood that he would be a person to 

.-. !:;tajk to about that. 

[6: 

1’; 

A Yes 

0 Is he considered McCurrys ’ second m command? 

(6; A Yes. 

Q Dd he say anything to you about what the White 

j :ij House strategy was. press strategy was, on the Mona 

t 111 Lewinsky story? 

112: A Hedid not. 

113: Q You mentioned that it was totally unremarkable, the 

‘14:g recess. but as youve ’ already mentioned to us today. at 

[Is; ast rn one respect it was unusual in that you dont ’ recall 

f 16; any other instance when somebody referred - when the White 

t 171 House referred somebody to you who they said had been hanging 

tlslaround theAWes&Wa.too much. Is that correct? 

(191 

[20! Q How many - this fellow she went to work with, 

.--, 121 ;Bawn is his name? 

[22i 

[23: 

[241 

I251 

A Yes. 

Q What is his official title? 

A Assistant Secretary of Defense for Pubiii Affairs. 

Q And its ’ Thomas? 

Page 60 

t:; 

A Ken. 

Q Ken. Im ’ sorry. Ken Bacon. How many Assistant 

I .-, 3;Secretaries of Defense are there? 

[41 A I believe there are 12. 

Q And you talked about the Office of Public Affairs 

izibeing happy, based on what you knew being happy with the 

171 

r 

rformance of Ms. Lewinsky. You said it was a good frt as 

131 ar as you knew, is that correct? isi - A Yes. 

Q And I believe that ou said ty ically you only hear 

i:!:about the unsuccessful cases. is r hat wrre cp ? .--, 

I121 A Correct. 

113: 0 

j i 4 : unsuccessful a 

And I think you said you didnt ’ hear anything 

bout Monica Lewinsky. correct? 

I151 A Thats ’ correct. 

1161 Q Who would you have typically heard that from? In 

f 17 1 her case, if she was a disaster or I if.she was a pro@em, ._ 

f I 3 1 would ou have expected to hear about that from Mr. Bemath 

rlg>more t z an anybody else? 

A - Ye6. 

Page 61 

ll! 0 No one ever told ou when they referred her to you 

rzithat she was in any way a sect& risk? 

i3; A No: 

II! Q 

rs;bells. correct? 

Obviously that would set off incredible alarm 

.~. 

[6i A Thats ’ true. 

0 No one ever mentioned that she was a stalker to 

iiiyou, is that correct? 

[io91 

A Thats ’ correct. 

Q Youve ’ mentioned that youve ’ talked to many, many 

I::: R” 

ople about this. Youve ’ told us the 

ouse you talked to and youve ’ talk er 

opte in the White 

about this reporter. 

I 191Who else can YOU remember talkina to about Monica Lewinsky 

i ;; jsince she became a public person7 

(15-i A As I said, I have more than likely ta&d to just 

(16]coUntless people who knew I worked at the Pen lagon, friendst17lof mine who would have said, “Did you know he And I safd. 

, ls,?eah. I knew her. I helped hire her.” It was just sort of 

i19ji n gossipy context. 

-Q 

I:PiPentagon? 

These are iike friends of yours outside of the 

[22i A 

Q 

Outside government, outside the Pentagon. 

123‘ Okay. And I take it you havent ’ told them anything 

~ZC jsubstantively about the affair that you havent ’ told us 

jzsltoday. 

Page 56 to Page 61 OlC-starr 
1 

1042 

WC. 

Page 62 

Charles Duncan, 2IW96 XMAX(11) 

-~ 

Page 65 

Ill A No. 

I21 Q Meaning, no, you have not told them - 

I31 A 

Q 

No, I have not told thep. You are cqrrect. 

I ,i ‘ other than your attorney? 

Okay. Are pu expecbng to be de,bnefed by anybody 

don? care a out heanng about 

[ 61 him. Are you expecting to be debriefed by anybody about your 

r~lgrand jury iestimonv? 

[El- A 

AQ 

No, f am not. 

I91 All ri ht. 

My a % 

Who is paying for your aromey? 

II01 orney is performmg the services on a pro 

I 111 bono basis. 

Q 

i:iithis attomzy? 

Who. if anybody, steered you or directed you to 

t141 A friend. 

1151 

2 

All right. Was that a White House official? 

I161 NO. 

I171 Okay. Tell us who that friend is. 1 

H Paul Miller. 

,*“I 

[I91 h 

[201 A 

All right. -And what does he do? 

Hes ’ a commissioner of the EEOC. 

0 And did he tell you he was recommending this person 

I::) based upon anybody elses ’ recommendation? That is to say Mr. 

i231Miller. 

1241 A No. 

1251 Q A grand juror asked you this question, let me ask 

Page 63 Page 66 

I 11 it again. Is it nonal for the Pentagon to hire somebody 

r2,straight out of an internship? 

I31 I understand that she was not technically an intern 

t 4 lany more, Ms. Lewinsky. but based on your expenence, IS It 

rslnormal for the Penta on to hire somebody directly from a 

[s,White House intern&p? 

A As I stated before, there is no normal. Every 

iilsingle personnel action has its own charade&tics. In the 

rgl!hree and a half years I was there, I dont ’ reca!l hiring any 

I IO I interns but I was referred some interns for positIons over 

i;ijthat time. 

1121 Q Okay. So you dont ’ recall ever hiring someone 

I I lldlrectlv from an internship. .--, . 

I141 A I dont ’ believe so. 

(151 Q And you were referred some. 

i161 A Yes. 

I171 Q Would that be doser to ten or a hundred? 

fl81 A Closer to ten. 

1191 Q Based on an conversations with Mr. Lockhart or 

[zolanybody else, do you expe x to be speaking with Mr. Lockhart 

.-~. r211about vour qrand tury testimony? 

[221 - A- I db riot. 

0 Have ou had any conversation with him about the 

I::iMonica Lewinsky ma x er other than this series of 

r2slconversations youve ’ told us about where youre ’ informing him 

-. 

Page 64 

[ 11 that a reporter wants to talk to you and finally he says 

[zlokay, you en talk to that reporter? 

131 A NO. 

141 MR. WISENBERG: I think thats ’ all Ive ’ got except 

rslfor a final kind of admonition. 

[61 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q On the conversation with Mr. Lockhart when he 

ii 1 indicated you could talk to the reporter, did 

(9 1 any discussion about what the reporter wan 7 

ou guys have 

ed. 

[ lolgoing to tell the reporter? 

what you were 

A 

i::iwhat the hiring 

Yes. He said, 7 think he just wants to understand 

recess is like over there ” 

I131 Q ?his is what Mr. Lockhartsaid ’ to you? 

I141 A Yes. 

Q And did you either at that time or any rior time 

~:~~tell Mr. Lockhart or anyone else who could have told c. rm what 

~17 1 the hiring process was in her case? 

1181 A I didnt. ’ No. 

I191 Q Do you know one way or the other whether he knew 

[2o]what the actual hiring process? 

I211 A No, I dont. ’

[221 BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q Would you have talked to this reporter without the 

i::iokay of M,Loc~k%-t? 

1 

1251 

OIC-Starr 

I11 BY MR. BIENERT: 

Q 

IiiMonica Lewinsky you say yes, how well did you know her. As I 

You Indicated that when fnends ask you if you knew 

I I 1 understand it so far. you were part of the hinn process, 

[ 5) but you didnt ’ physlcall 

16lDid you deal with her a 7 

interview her or you I? ant ’ recall. 

all once she was working there? 

I would see her when I would see Ken Bacon. 

And what would she be doing? 

Her desk was immediately outside of the door to his 

[ 11 that much~rky?xs~rience? 

121 

Q At the time when you were there. were there jobs at 

i:;the Pentagon that you believe would have been a good fit for 

r5lan intern? .-,- 

161 A Yes. 

0 And so, as I understand it, then, oure ’ saying 

tii.pst the timing wasnt ’ such that they lined up at t e nght 

i 

c, ‘

(91 ime. 

[lOI A Thats ’ correct. 

Q Was the ob ‘ that Monica Lewinsky wound up getting 

I::;the type of job that you I! 

i 13 1 for an Intern? 

elleve might be an appropriate fit 

.--I 

[I41 A No. 

I151 Q Why not? 

Cl61 A You needed somewhat more experience than intern 

[17]would have. 

Cl81 Q Hew much more experience? 

I:iisomebod 

A One of the qualities they were looking for was 

r 

who could download thi s from the Internet. needs 

12 11 to unders and the Internet, to have Ye p asant offi+ skills. 

[zzltelephone skills, because of their front officeproxlmw. so 

[23]you need spmebody a little bit older than an Intern would be. 

Q And so these are the 

I::lin your experience you would 

Page 67 

[lltime in thepror r working environment tq develop before you 

12 1 coukf go 110 t ;,t”d of job that Ms. Lewmsky got. 

131 

0 So would the amount of experience that someone ha 

I:iin the proper environment, dealing in people skills, dealing 

Islwith important people on the phone and in penon. be an 

f 7 1 important factor into whether someone should get !he type of 

reljob that Ms. Lewinsky got? 

A Not so much the amount of their experience, but 

[:iijust their own ability to fulfill these needs. 

Q You had determined before anyone even interviewed 

i :: ;Ms. Lewinsky that you would send her down to the Public 

1131Affairs seyn ~;FI: this type of job was open, correct? 

f1.1 

L--I 

Q What was it about tha conversation that you had 

I :ziwith someone at the White House and/or her resume that made 

; ;;I ;$tu,believe that she would be appropnate for that type of 

L-“,,--- 

___. ~-- 

Page 62 to Page 67 
n 

1043 

q SA Charles Duncan, 2/18/98 XMAX(l2) 

Page 68 Page 71 

r:!Oval Office? 

(2: A Yes. 

[ji BY MR. WISENBERG: 

Q Was it ever told to you b 

i :;Presidential Personnel who had made t x 

the person in 

e decision to move 

[ 6~ Monica out of tFo&hite House? 

I7! A 

Q All tight. Marsha Scott, you indicated you know 

I: jsomething;bout her, correct? 

llO1 I know Marsha. 

0 Okay. Based on your experience and knowing Marsha 

i :i 1 Scott if Marsha Scott whether or not she was in 

t I. 31 Presidential Personnel at the time, if there is a distinction 

I 14 i I want to know about it. but was Marsha Scott the kind of 

ii 5 j person - jet me start over. 

If Marsha Scott didnt ’ want somebody working in the 

/:tjWest Wing, would she be in a good position to stop them from 

t 16 Iworking in the West Wing? 

And if you need to distinguish between the time 

i:iishe was in Presidential Personnel and not, you can. Im ’

t:l]talking about in terms of clout, based upon your experience 

r221mterfacing with the White House. 

I231 A 

Q 

I dont ’ thjnk so. 

[241 

I251 A 

,,ou ‘ don t think so? 

Page 69 Page 72 

y 

123iwork there? - 

A I dont ’ think so. Pats Thomasson has nothing to 

i::;do with anybody who works in the White House. - 

Page 70 

r11 Q 

I21 A 

All right. And let me ask you - 

Q 

Im ’ sorry, anybody who works in the West Wing. 

I:; .resent Im ’ askin 

tsj P me duhn 

All ri ht. And Im ’ not just asking this in the 

[Cl 

[71 

(81 

191 

A ‘

this a muustra Ion hat you re aware of, okay? 

M&in~ anr time that you ve - any 

Q You understand thats ’ what Im ’ asking? 

A Mm-hmm. 

Q Is that a ves? 

rioj A Yes. Imiony. ’

1111 Q Q Now, Now same question as to Marsha Scott. A person 

t r12 I 2 1 ~from from the outside outside eitherl in another Executive Branch a ency or 

t 13jfrom the 

t 14 1 Marsha B 

rivate sector wants to go to work in the Wes s Wing. 

cott IS against it, is that going to be a significant 

t15jnumre tlsjhurdle for that person? 

116) A 

h 0

No, I would not say it was a si nificant hurdle. 

1171 Same auestion auestion as as-to to Bob Nash. 3,iisi A Yes. ’ 

0 All right. Hes ’ higher up, he was head of 

i:i;Presidential Personnel. 

I211 A Yes. 

Q Okay. Youve ’ talked about your friends who youLe 

~::~casually spoken to about Monica Lewinsky. Youve ’ told us 

[24 Ieverybody at the White House. How about people within the 

ttslgovemment? Who are some of the people youve ’ spoken to in 

Page 68 toPage 73 

I 1 Igovernment about MO 

121- 

nica Lewrsky since this became an issue? 

A Jamie Rubin. 

131 Q Okay. Who is that? 

141 A Hes ’ the Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs for 

[sithe Department of State. 

I61 0 And what was the nature of that conversation? 

I71 A I informed him that I was the White House liaison 

t 6 1 at the Department of Defense when she was hired and I did 

0 Sure. Who else? -- 

I141 A Jim Foley, who 6 the Principal Deputy Assistant 

tls]Secretary of State for Public Affairs, for the sa.me reason. 

1161 Q 

(171 

All right. Same reason as Rubn. 

A Thats correct 

Q 

!:891were informina these oeoole. 

And those we-m just each conversation where you 

.--, 

I201 A “Yes. ’ ’ 

1211 Q They didnt ’ instruct you - did they instruct you 

[22]to say or not say anything? 

[231 

I241 

1251 

A No. 

Q Who else? 

A Jim Thessin. 

[ll Q How do you spell that last name? 

[21 A T-h-e-s-s-i-n. 

131 

I:: 

2 noekai- ’ Im ’ not sure of his exact title. Hes ’

8 

art of the legal counsels oftice in the Department of 

161 tate. 

i7i Q And same reason? 

A I infonned him as a State Department employee that 

[ill had been contacted by the Office of the Independent 

r101Counsel. 

iiii Q Okay. And what else, what other - is that the 

t 12 lentire nature of your discussion with him? 

1131 A Yes. 

Cl41 Q Who else? 

(151 A Bill Burns. Hes ’ the Executive Secretary of the 

rl61Department of State. 

r171 Q And what was the nature of that conversation? 

A The exact same, just to inform him because Bill was 

I:t;the person tasked within the Annartm~nt +n r~cnnnrl h 

Y-e aI.Illwll. ,” “‘yf”” L” 

[20lAmbassad~or Ric&ardson Is ’ inv &ement with the job offer. 

i::iFoley. 

ray. The same reason that you told Rubin and 

1231 

(241 

(251 

A 

2 

Yes. 

Okay. Who else? 

I dont ’ believe theres ’ anybody else. 

Page 73 

Q All ri ht. And Bums didnt ’ say anything to you 

I:;about this? You jus informed hi? 

131 A Yes.?Thats ’ correct 

;:;I have. 

MR. WTSENBERG: Ail right. I think thats ’ all that 

[61 BY MR BIENERT: 

171 Q 

t 9 1 appearance here toda 

----- I --- 

rlorwhether or not vour a tr 

do y&ha% axy understanding as to 

ornev h= -nv Iln,+n=+=n,unn ahnl,+ 

When you said that you have no intention or plan to 

isjtalk with anyone other than your attamev ahaut vaur 

~~ , !W ‘ mm., “..“~*“Y..“..*~ WY”“. 

i;;iwhether he canor ’ wont ’ or WIII or whatever talk to other 

t 12 j attorneys or any other persons about what you tell him about 

tl3lyour testimony. 

1141 A My understanding is my attorney can talk to other 

115 J attorneys. 

1161 0 R- ht And your attnmev can and so cm vau Mu 

il~jquestion to you, 4. t ‘ ough, IS dn vc 

-.. -..- -- -.. ~--. ‘-.I 

_ I cl%; whether or not it IS 

ils j your attorneys ’ intentibn to talk with any other attorneys or 

r, ~~e.arrnn.z ah,-,,,+ ~,-a,,, taetimnn~ - 

,.-..-- .- .-... .” -- . . . . . -..._-. -. . ..- 

i2iiWhite House. 

,771 BY MR~ WISENBEPr-. 

.- ~. 

1251 

- . ..--..-+I\“. 

Q Do you know of anybody else he plans to talk to? 

A No. 

Q Are you part of a joint defense agreement? 

OKX3arr 
(1) t*t A Nn 

BY MKBIENERT: 

111 remember an 

12; r. 

hrng that is different than what youve ’

Q Do you have any understanding of why our attorney 

i:iwould talk to Lannv Breuer at the White House about w \ 

12 1 testified hy ads;: Is that all right?? 

(31 

MR. WISENBERG: And if there are no other matters, 

; ii tell us here today7 

at you 

i : ; may the witness be excused? 

A 

Itlnot - Im ’ not sure wha he Intends to talk to Lanny Breuer 

I m so? maybe I should make it more clear. Im ’ 161 THE FOREPERSON: 

171 MR. WISENBERG: 

Yes, he may. 

Thank you very much. 

f s 1 about. I know he intends to talk to Lanny Breuer. 

~ 

IS1 e witness was excused.) 

(91 Q You have indicated you speak to Lanny Breuer on / G ereupon. at 340 p.m., the takin 

fiojoccasion, correct? t:i;in the presence of a full quorum of the Grand 3 

of testimony 

ury was 

1111 A tlllconcluded.) 

112! I--. Q 

I have spoken with him on three occasions. 

Has Mr. Breuer - its ’ a male, correct? 1121 

. . . . . 

[I31 A Yes. 1131 

Q Has Mr. Breuer indicated to you or has your 

I::lattome indicated to you that an im etus for your attorneys 

[I41 

fls)talking!oLann~Breueratthe~tie~ouseaboutyour 

1151 

[161 

f 17 1 testimony wou d have come from Lanny Breuer and someone at 

(1 B 1 the White House? 

I191 A No. 

1201 Q Well, where does it come from, to your knowtedge? 

1211 A Im ’ so . 

0 Let me T 

Maybe I didnt ’ understand the uesbon. 

ack up. As I understand rt. the a R omey 

!::lthat you have was recommended to you by a friend who does not 

[24]WOrk at the White House. 

[251 A Right. 

I171 

1181 

[I91 

[201 

(211 

1221 

[231 

I241 

I251 

1044 

Charles Duncan, 2119196 

Page 77 

XMAXI13) 

Page 75 

Ill Q So what is your understandin 

121vour attomev to then talk to someone at the bite House 

of what would prompt 

+lhlt yo1 urAt&stimony? 

Lannv --. Breuer. I informed Lannv Breuer 

i:jattomey was and I k&w they have had conve?sations 

[Cl Q 

[I ‘ A 

Lanny Breuer and your attorney? 

Yes. Prior to today. 

[El Q And conversations meaning since your 

I 9 1 been reoresentino vou. 

who my 

attorney has 

;b to goeed on the uniaueness of 

,_,-.. ~, 

A C&fect. 

Page 76 

I 

111 A Yes. 

121 BY MR. WlSENBERG: 

Q So based upon what you know about this matter, at 

I:; least one person in the White House Counsels ’ Office, Lanny 

ts)Breuer, was aware of potential executive privilege issues 

f 6 1 arising out of your testimony. Is that correct? 

A No. I think my attorney just simp 

Ii ;up to speed on the broad issue of executive pnvi 

needed to get 

!$,I? in the 

1 glevent - my attorney didnY know who I was, what I ad done, 

t 10 Iwhat my involvement was, so he was just doing R as an 

t I 1) educational tool, I think 

1121 MR. WlSENBERG: Are there any other questions? 

I131 

(141 L”,~~L%%X%LBERG: 

1151. _ Q Then. I need to icfon you,.Mr. Duncan,. that several 

t 16 1 times, ottentrmes. wrtnesses wni come oerore a, grano JU’~ 

f 17) and even if theyre ’ questioned for as Ion a penod of time 

t 1s 1 as ouve ’ been questioned, theyll ’ be wa king down the street J.. . . 

9. 

ftg)or nvrng in then car or passing alon the way and theyll ’

f20)remember something that is inconsrs .? ent wrth somethrrtg they 

rzllsard ar grand juz or ,I ust ‘ was responsive to a question 

t22land the say “Why rdn I think of that?” I 

y request to you is if somethrng 

i::;happens 

like that ! 

please have your attorney get h touch with one of 

f 25 1 us at Off& of Independent Counsel and let us know if you 

--. -~ __ -z. -.-... -. -.-- ~-~~~~ ~. 

Page 74 to Page 77 
1 

1045 

ION DESCRIPTION (please Read hstnrctions on the jack) 

4.EJnduFgmImtm s-wnRed9salBMn nNmv Washington, DC Arlincrton. VA 

” 

I I - . 

(~.FWLAKKW ati. , (a.- 

Schedule C Position 

b- apnmgh &KY Confidential Assistant I GS I 0301 I 09 

a mb 

rpmg- Confidential Assistant 

le.ofpnmmwTaodPaam(n~bomO(Pil~) 

GS I 0301 09 

17.r4uNd~wnanf.~ 

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 

LFkBt~ 

. 

OFFICE OF T8E SECRETARY OF DEFENSE 

b. Sama &bdinron 

ASD (PUBLIC AFFAIRS) 

I 

I 

IrFmalmldal 

a. suP.m cermuth. ioMffydWttlbbUl-d8tWlWtd krwwdgomumbintum8lmn bmbeus8dtorstatutorypuruosafebtJng 

Ihrmqordutimmxl lesponmlltbsofmb~Mdih~ 

~-sWs.mdUutftm~bnoamtytocmyoutGomnnm 

magpomtmunMtt~~of~trmds.uutmatfaboamlsM4amg 

-w-- dmcfl&t8mtsarttleirimpbmmtlng~ 

tunujon9*ldlicflIm~. mw-brwahm# Ldmbs. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- 

~~lolra~mdlUiodlnmuoWSupwnra 

Kenneth H. Bacon 

falylJmdNameuldTUIotHi@lw-lwalSuprnarwYvugrr(ophoru~ 

I 

Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public ASfairs 

~~-"-":----~"'- ---- -'-TGT'y-TslrYMw ~~-~~~---~-~--~~"~~--'"'~'--'f-"'--' 

I- 

-torEmployea.Ths stancw+~udtn~ontbdr~icmo

--------- --__---- --------- ---Be- J-ii. I- inulopusomeIoffimnled iELamctodtJYmaMenoYormr-@-s= ”s.DHladPo24. kmwka 

- .- 

833~Dc4mo2879 
,- 

1046 

Confidential Assistant to the Assistant Secretary 

of Defense for Public Affkim (GS-30149) 

This position is located in the Office of the Assistant Secretary 

of Defense for public Affairs. The Assistant Secretary of Defense 

for Public Affairs (ASD(PA)) is the principal staff assistant and 

advisor to the Secretary of Defense on all DOD public affairs 

programs and activities and on the internal information and related 

activities of the American Forces Information Service. He is 

responsible for establishing and-implementing policies and systems 

necessary for the effective and economical performance of DOD 

public affairs and internal infozmation programs, including those 

of the military departments. 

The incumbent of this Schedule C position will have access to 

highly confidential, sensitive and frequently politically 

controversial information and must be a person in whom the ASD(PA) 

has complete trust and confidence. This close relationship is that 

of a confidential nature required for Schedule C exception. 

833-DW0002880 

As Confidential Assistant, the incumbent provides secretarial and 

administrative support directly to the ASD(PA) in key areas of his 

ongoing official and administrative responsibilities. 

- 

On behalf of the ASD(PA), maintains contact at primary management 

levels within the DoD on personal and special taskings. This 

includes contacts with the office of the Secretary of Defense,' the 

Organization of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Secretariats of the 

military departments, defense agencies and similar DOD components. 

In addithn, incumbent may represent the ASD(PA) in personal and 

confidential contacts with members of Congress and civilian 

industry txecutives. 

Travels tith the ASD (PA) and Secretary of Defense, providing 

secretark and administrative support to the ASD and other members 

of the Secretary's traveling group, as required. 

Participates in all ASD(PA) staff meetings.and directors' meetings. .. 

Conducts fact-finding research and summarizes and arranges the data 

in forma'2 preferred by the ASD (PA). When background material is 
1047 

necessary, the incumbent researches, collects, and asset&leg 

sufficient amounts and variety of materials to assure that the 

ASD(PA) has sufficient and pertinent background on which to base 

decisions on the most highly sensitive and-zontroversial issues. .- 

Conducts special confidential assignments and projects which are of 

considerable personal interest to the ASD(PA) and which often 

involve sensitive issues. 

Coordinates the ASD(PA)'s appointment calendar, continually making 

necessary adjustments as more urgent or important matters arise. 

Independently makes commitments.-for the ASD(PA). Works directly 

with the Immediate Office of the Secretary of Defense and the White 

House in coordinating schedules and other activities of the. 

ASD(PA). 

Responds to high-level and often confidential matters as well as 

written and telephonic inquiries pertaining to invitations, 

engagements, personal information and other related information 

pertaining to the ASD(PA). The incumbent must make quick and 

accurate assessments of what information in what quantity can be 

given to what individuals or organizations. 

The incumbent operates in a close personal and confidential working 

relationship with the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public 

Affairs. Overall assignments and guidance are typically developed 

in conversation between the incumbent and the ASD(PA), with the 

incumbent exercising personal discretion and judgment in the 

performance of assigned and assumed responsibilities. 

Responsibilities of this position involve administrative and 

coordinative matters at the highest levels of the DOD. Therefore, 

the incumbent must have the ability to perceive and reflect the 

ASD(PA)'s personal and official policies and wishes in contacts 

throughout DOD, and with congressional and civilian business and 

industry leaders. Incumbent must have a thorough understanding of 

the Assistant Secretary's areas of operation and responsibility and 

DOD organizations and key personnel. Must have knowledge of 

duties, priorities, commitments, policies, and goals of the 

OASD(PA) . Must have basic secretarial and administrative knowledge 

and experience. 
1048 
1049 

FD-;02 (Rev. 3-10-82) 

- 1 - 

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION 

Date of ttanscription l/28/98 

JAYMIE A. DURNAN, Senior Vice President and Special Counsel to the 

Chairman MacANDREWS & FORBES HOLDINGS, INC. (MFH) was made available for 

interview by his attorney, CHARLES A. ‘STILLMAN at the law firm STILLMAN and 

FRIEDMAN, 425 Park Avenue. STILLMAN and his associate JOHN B. HARRIS were present 

during the interview. All persons present were advised of the purpose of the interview and the 

official and personal identity of Investigators COPELAND and BASTIN. DURNAN thereafter 

provided the following information. 

DURNAN recalls that he first became aware of MONICA LEWINSKY when he 

received her resume forwarded to him from RICHARD HALPERIN on about the 5th or 6th of 

January, 1998. DURNAN asked his assistant, CHRISTINE USERY to contact LEWINSKY and 

set up an interview appointment for January 7, 1998 at the headquarters for MFH. DURNAN 

recalls that because of his scheduling problems, his assistant made telephone calls to change the 

appointment to January 8, 1998. 

DURNAN interviewed LEWINSKY for approximately 35 to 40 minutes in his 

office at 35 East 62nd Street and generally felt that she was impressive for entry level work. 

DURNAN was actually looking for an administrative assistant and knew that LEWINSKY 

would not do well in that type job and so he considered referring LEWINSKY to JAMES 

CONROY. He then learned from LEWINSKY that she had already been interviewed by 

HALPERIN and CONROY and that she understood that CONROY was of the opinion that there 

were no openings known to him at MFH. DURNAN reached a similar conclusion and decided 

to send LEWINSKY’s resume to the REVLON. LEWINSKY indicated that she was definitely 

interested in pursuing employment with REVLON. DURNAN advised that he did forward her 

resume over to ALLYN SEIDMAN who is Senior Vice President for Corporate Communications 

for REVLON. DURNAN also called SEIDMAN’S department but was unable to talk to her so 

he elected to leave a message to the effect, “you may find this person interesting”. 

. 

DURNAN recalis, that LEWINSKY stated in the interview that she was staying 

in New York and gave DURNAN a local telephone number, m She also indicated 

that she had talked to a public relations company known as BURSON-MARSTELLER about 

employment. 

DURNAN recalls that on the same day of the interview in the afternoon, 

RONALD PERELMAN, Chairman of the Board for MFH asked DURNAN to come to his 

Investiganon on l/26/98 at New York City New York FtieY 29D-LR-35063 

Date dictatrd l/28/98 

This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the propetty of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; 

it and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. 
1050 

FD-302a iRev. 11-15-83) 

29D-LR-35063 

of FD-302 of Jaynie A. Durnan .on l/26/98 ,Rgc 2 

office. When he arrived there PERELM explained that he had just received a phone call from 

VERNON JORDAN who stated to him that MFH was interviewing a woman on that day and 

wanted to know if’MFH could be helpful to her. DURNAN stated that he informed 

PERELMAN that he had concluded an interview with a MONICA LEWTNSKY during the 

morning and that she is probably the one JORDAN was referring to, in view of the fact that 

LEWINSKY was recommended by JORDAN. DURNAN also said to PERELMAN that he did 

not believe that LEWINSKY would fulfil his requirements and, therefore, he had called ALLYN 

SEJDMAN and forwarded LEWINSKY’S resume. PERELMAN responded that, “we should see 

what we can do to help her”. 

DURNAN again called ALLYN SEIDMAN and told her that he had sent the 

resume of MONICA LEWINSKY over to her and that SEIDMAN should take a look at it and if 

LEWINSKY fits in and you like her, then you should hire her. DURNAN advised that he did not 

tell SEIDMAN that PEKELMAN had expressed an interest in LEWINSKY. 

l 

Some time later after SEJDMAN had interviewed LEWINSKY, she called 

DURNAN and stated that she “loved her” and that she had a job for LEWINSKY. 

DURNAN recalls that he had a brief conversation about salary with SEIDMAN 

and recounted to her that in his interview with LEWTNSKY she had indicated to him that she 

was a GS-9 at the Pentagon and that including overtime she almost made $50,000 per year. 

DURNAN recalls telling her that she would not make that much money at REVLON in an entry 

level job. A short time later SEIDMAN called him back and said the position only paid $40,000. 

DURNAN remembers telling SEIDMAN to check references and call him back. SEIDMAN 

called back and advised DURNAN that they had offered the job to LEWINSKY at $40,000 and 

that LEWINSKY had accepted. DURNAN recalls that the job offer occurred on January 13, 

1998. 

DURNAN does not specifically recall, but believes that he would have mentioned 

the fact that LEWINSKY had been hired by REVLON to PERELMAN. DURNAN does recall 

that he called JORDAN on the same day and told him that REVLON had hired LEWINSKY and 

he replied “OK, thanks”. DURNAN stated that the telephone call with JORDAN lasted 

approximately 30 to 45 seconds. 
1051 

FLS3u2a (Rev. 11-15-83) 

29D-LR-35063 

Continuation of FD-302 of Jaynie A. Durnan ,on l/26/98 ,pagc 3 

DURNAN is described as follows from observation and interview. ’ 

Name: JAYMIE A. DURNAN 

Sex: Male 

Race: Caucasian 

DOB: 

SSAN: 

Residence: 

Telephone: 

Employment: MacANFREWS & FORBES HOLDINGS, INC. 

35 East 62nd Street 

New York City, NY 1002 1 

Telephone: - 

Title: Senior Vice President tid Special Counsel to the Chairman 
1052 
1053 

OK-302 (Rev. 8-19-94) 

- 1 - 

OFFICE OFTHE LXDEPENDENTCOUNSEL 

3/31/98 

Date of transcription 

JAYMIE DURNAN, Senior Vice President and Special 

Assistant to the Chairman, MC ANDREWS & FORBES HOLDINGS (MFH), 35 

East 62 Street, New York, New York, was interviewed at the law 

office of STILLMAN & FRIEDUN, P.C., 425 Park Avenue, New York, 

New York. Present at the time of interview was CHARLES STILLMAN, 

attorney representing MFH, as well as Assistant Independent 

Counsels THOMAS BIENERT and STEVEN BINHAK. During interview 

DURNAN providgd the following information. 

u-p 

DURNAN has'been employed with MFH for the past six 

years. In azsftion to his duties associated with the title 

mentioned above, he has assumed the position of the Human 

Resources Manager. In that regard, he became aware of MONICA 

LEWINSKY in mid-December, 1997, when he reviewed her resume. He 

put a notation on the resume for his assistant to schedule her 

for an interview after the first of the year. He was on vacation 

from December 17 or 18, 1997 until December 31, 1997. Between 

the time of his first hearing her name and the day of her 

interview, he had no conversations with her or any messages from 

her. During that same time period he had no conversations with 

anyone at MFH regarding LEWINSKY. 

The interview with LEWINSKY took place on January 8, 

1998 at the offices of MFH. He asked some standard questions 

routinely covered in employment interviews. They talked about 

the kind of career for which she was looking. In view of his own 

background at the Pentagon, he was interested in her work 

experience there. He asked her if she was interested in a 

secretarial position. LEWINSKY responded that she would only be 

interested in employment leading to a career in public relations. 

In response to his inquiry, LEWINSKY told DURNAN she . 

came to know VERNON JORDAN through her mother. 

After a general discussion of public relations, DURNAN 

suggested she speak with RICHARD HALPERIN and JIM CONROY. She 

informed him that she had already had a meeting with them. 

DURNAN was somewhat embarrassed by the implication that the MFH 

executives were not communicating. He told LEWINSKY he would 

Investigation on 3/27/98 at New York, New York File# 29D-OIC-LR-35063 
1054 

OIC-302a (Rev. 8-19-941 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

JAYMIE DURNAN 3/27/98 2 

Continuation of OIC-302 of .on , Page 

send her some informational materials on public relations. 

During their conversation LEWINSKY told him she was making 

$50,000.00 per year at the Pentagon. Based upon her resume, she 

seemed over-qualified for some entry level positions. 

DURNAN's impression was that LEWINSKY's job at the 

White House was at the same level as her position at the 

Pentagon. He could not recall her response to his question of 

why she left the White House. He said she did not name drop 

during interview. 

DURNAN has conducted all interviews of candidates for 

secretarial level positions at MFH over the past six years. In 

that time he has not interviewed any person referred to MFH by 

VERNON JORDAN for employment, entry level or otherwise. 

After the interview, DURNAN was impressed with 

LEWINSKY, particularly her work experience at the Pentagon. He 

felt she could “fit in" with MFH, however there was nothing 

available at that time which suited her interests. He told her 

.that her resume would be sent over to REVLON. 

Insofar as a time factor was concerned, LEWINSKY said 

she would need some time to take care of her work load at the 

Department of Defense, and that two weeks notice would be 

adequate. DURNAN thought this was reasonable. At the end of 

their discussion, he told her if there was interest at REVLON, 

they would be in contact with her. 

DURNAN instructed CHRISTINA USREY to send the LEWINSKY 

resume to REVLON. He also telephoned ALLYN SEIDMAN at REVLON and 

left her.a voice mail message detailing the information about his 

interview, that he was forwarding LEWINSKY's resume to SEIDMAN, 

and although there was no opening at MFH, perhaps there was 

something available at REVLON. 

DURNAN then went to RICHARD HALPERIN's office and spoke 

with HALPERIN and CONROY, who happened to be there at the time. 

They talked about the fact that HALPERIN and CONROY had already 

spoken with LEWINSKY and that DURNAN was not aware of that fact. 

DURNAN conveyed his opinion of LEWINSKY and mentioned he was 

sending her resume to REVLON. There was no mention of VERNON 
I 

1055 

OIC-302a (Rev. 8-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

JAYMIE DURNAN 3/27/98 3 

Continuation of OK-302 of , On , Page 

JORDAN. 

Later that same day, RONALD PERELM? called DURNAN to 

his office and related the fact that he had just had a telephone 

call from VERNON JORDAN about,MONICA LEWINSKY. DURNAN told him 

about the interview and the fact that he liked her, but there was 

nothing available for her at MFH. At that time, PERELMAN said 

Ulet's just see if we can be helpful". DURNAN would not 

characterize PERELMAN's involvement as unusual given the 

circumstances. . 

After speaking with PERELMAN, he went to his office and 

made a telephone call to ALLYN SEIDMAN at REVLON. He spoke with 

her and said he really liked LEWINSKY, gave his impressions as to 

her qualifications, and discussed her resume. He said to 

SEIDMAN, “if we can be helpful, we'd really like to be helpful". 

He did not mention PERELMAN's involvement in the matter. 

As to the inference drawn from PERELMAN's interest in 

LEWINSKY, DURNAN said that if PERELMAN specifically wants 

something, he usually makes that desire clear. In this case, 

PERELMAN did not make it clear that LEWINSKY was to be hired, 

regardless of other considerations. 

DURNAN acted upon this matter for two reasons. They 

were: (1) JORDAN was a director of the company; and (2) PERELMAN 

asked that MFH be helpful to her. DURNAN's conclusion was they 

would do what they could, but LEWINSKY's hiring was not 

mandatory. 

The next day, January 9, 1998, DURNAN received a 

telephone call from ALLYN SEIDMAN during which she mentioned she 

had interviewed LEWINSKY that day and thought she was “terrific". 

She said they were restructuring their office and she thought she 

had something for LEWINSKY. DURNAN told her to take the normal 

hiring course, have LEWINSKY complete an application, and go 

through the Human Resources office. 

Later the same day, DURNAN had another telephone call 

with SEIDMAN, however this one was a conference call in which 

JENNA SHELDON, REVLON Human Resources, participated. The two 

women indicated they liked LEWINSKY. SEIDMAN said they had an 
1056 

OIC-302a (Rev. 8-19-94) 

29D-OIC-LR-35063 

JAYMIE DURNAN 3/27/98 4 

Continuation of OIC-302 of . On . be - 

entry level position for LEWINSKY in her department (public 

relations) at a salary of $40,000.00. The salary was an average 

offer for an entry level job. 

SEIDMAN and SHELDON called DURNAN again the same day to 

tell him the offer had been made to LEWINSKY. SEIDMAN asked 

DURNAN about checking LEWINSKY's references. She wanted to know 

if DURNAN had conducted the checks and, if not, should she go 

ahead with reference checking. DURNAN told her that she should 

definitely contact LEWINSKY's references and that the employment 

offer should be contingent upon satisfactory references. 

During interview, DURNAN said on three different 

occasions that he had instructed others, in handling the LEWINSKY 

matter, to ‘do what you normally do'. 

On that same day, after speaking with SEIDMAN, DURNAN 

made a courtesy telephone call to VERNON JORDAN to tell him 

REVLON had made an offer to LEWINSKY. DURNAN made the call while 

out of town on business. He recalled JORDAN to have responded 

“great" to the news of the offer. There was no other reason for 

the call to JORDAN and the conversation was very brief. DURNAN 

could not tell if JORDAN already knew the news of the hire. 

DURNAN usually chats with VERNON JORDAN when he stops 

by MFH. They speak on the telephone infrequently, perhaps once 

per year. Their last telephone conversation occurred when 

DURNAN was terminating the employment of a security guard who 

claimed to be a friend of JORDAN. DURNAN had no conversation 

with JORDAN about LEWINSKY until the issue of LEWINSKY and the 

President became public. 

On the morning of January 21, 1998, DURNAN was watching 

the news on television before going to work. At that time he 

learned about the allegations of LEWINSKY's and the President's 

affair. He received a call from RICHARD HALPERIN as he was 

driving to work. HALPERIN asked if they had “given her a job" to 

which he responded he thought they had and that the offer was 

from REVLON.