National Indian Gaming Commission Consultation

 April 5, 2017

 Talking Stick Resort

Scottsdale, Arizona

 Reported by: Kimberly Portik, RMR, CRR, CRC

 Certified Reporter No. 50149
 2

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. I guess we'll go

 2 ahead and begin.

 3 I want to thank everybody for taking the

 4 time to be here today. I know a lot's going on in

 5 conjunction with the Federal Bar Indian Law Conference,

 6 but just wanted to start before turning it over to the

 7 person we are very honored to open this Consultation up

 8 for us, how much of an honor it is for all of us to be

 9 here at Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community. We are

 10 honored to be here and we are also honored to be having

 11 this Consultation in Arizona.

 12 We recognize the impact Arizona has had on

 13 the national gaming landscape, and more specifically we

 14 recognize the impact that Salt River and Nations in the

 15 Phoenix area have had on compact discussions and the text

 16 for Indian gaming in Arizona and beyond.

 17 So with that, we are very honored to have

 18 the president of Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community

 19 here with us, President Delbert Ray, and he has agreed to

 20 open us up with a blessing and brief statement. So this

 21 happens to be President Ray's birthday week, and so in

 22 addition to all the attorneys from the Nation being here

 23 in town, he has a million meetings going on and has his

 24 birthday this week, so we are especially pleased and

 25 honored to have him here to open this up.
 3

 1 So with that, President Ray, thank you.

 2 PRESIDENT RAY: Thank you.

 3 First of all, I'd like to start out with a

 4 prayer, so if it's your custom to stand. (Speaking in

 5 Native language.)

 6 You may be seated. I just want to say thank

 7 you and good afternoon to each one of you. On behalf of

 8 Akimel O'Odham, the River People, and Xalychidom Piipaash,

 9 people that live toward the river, just want to welcome

 10 you to our place here. We are one community, but we are

 11 composed of two different Tribes. And I'll say that I

 12 want to welcome Chairman Chaudhuri and the Commissioners.

 13 It is a pleasure to have you here today for this important

 14 Consultation meeting.

 15 For me, what I see is a rapid change in the

 16 gaming industry as a result much of the activity on the

 17 regulatory side of gaming just to keep up with the

 18 continuous change that we see on the operation side. Here

 19 in Arizona, we -- you may well know the state and many of

 20 the gaming Tribes in the state are in discussions to,

 21 quote, modernize our compacts. That's the word that the

 22 governor uses, and some of us may be familiar with that

 23 term. Well, this is now an ongoing process. We do know

 24 that this will affect both the operations of Tribal gaming

 25 here in Arizona as well as the regulatory framework.
 4

 1 For our community we see both the challenges

 2 of working through complex issues, but we also see

 3 opportunity to be able to generate more revenue for the

 4 benefit of all our community members. And all these

 5 activities, it is always important to be able to

 6 communicate with respect to Tribal, state, and federal

 7 agencies to make sure that what we are doing is in the

 8 best path for the Indian gaming industry.

 9 As it looks like a long agenda for this

 10 meeting this afternoon, it is my hope this Consultation

 11 will be constructive and worthwhile for both the

 12 Commission and both Tribal interests.

 13 Again, I just want to welcome you. Got a

 14 long week here. We've had a long week as far as activity.

 15 Tomorrow I don't know if you'll be here, but also the

 16 Federal Bar, I think this is our third year that we've

 17 hosted this event, and CLEs and everything else, you know.

 18 But I just want to welcome each and every one of you.

 19 And gaming is a very important part of

 20 Tribal Nations. You know? And this morning as I shared

 21 with VAWA, the Violence Against Women Act, group this

 22 morning, you know, I told them about how important this

 23 freeway is to us, it is open. You know, back in the day

 24 it was the river. We are the River People, and that's

 25 where we got our sustenance, everything. And nowadays
 5

 1 it's the freeway because it brings us many opportunities.

 2 And, again, you know, for me, I'm the 24th

 3 president of Salt River Community, and I stand on the

 4 shoulders of leaders who had a vision. You know, right

 5 now I'm just reaping all the benefit of all that's been

 6 done by former leadership. We've done a lot here at Salt

 7 River with gaming and we have a lot more to do. Right now

 8 we are at 10,300 plus, our membership. And I appreciate

 9 such organizations as NIGC that oversees, regulates gaming

 10 to make it to be an industry with integrity.

 11 So I thank you for all that you do. Again,

 12 it's -- I have a Council meeting to get to, but I just

 13 want to thank you, Chairman Chaudhuri, and all that are

 14 here. Safe travels to each of you. God bless you.

 15 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you.

 16 (Applause)

 17 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, President,

 18 and early happy birthday. We have a little something for

 19 you that I'll have to actually hand deliver. It got lost

 20 on the flight, but I'll make sure if we don't get it to

 21 you during this conference we get it to you at National

 22 Indian Gaming Association's conference next week. But

 23 happy birthday. Thank you so much for that opening.

 24 PRESIDENT RAY: Thank you.

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: So (speaking in Native
 6

 1 language). Welcome, everyone, and blessings to you all

 2 today.

 3 My name is Jonodev Chaudhuri. I'm Muscogee

 4 Creek and East Indian (indiscernible). I'm proud of both

 5 my heritages, proud to be a member of First Nations as

 6 well as the nation -- as well as the first American-born

 7 person on my father's side. So it's always an honor to be

 8 in Indian Country for any reason, but particularly in

 9 conjunction with work that we do at NIGC.

 10 I'm going to get out in a moment and turn it

 11 over to my fellow Commissioners to provide some opening

 12 remarks, but today's Consultation is part of our ongoing

 13 commitment to working with our partners before we put pen

 14 to paper on any major actions that we take as an agency.

 15 It's consistent with national Consultation policy and

 16 consistent with our internal NIGC policy that -- far and

 17 above policies, the work that we do requires us to have

 18 meaningful day-in-and-day-out relationships with Tribal

 19 leadership as well as Tribal regulators. We are a part of

 20 a regulatory structure that includes Tribes as the primary

 21 regulators of Indian gaming. And so just as a matter of

 22 survival and necessity, our meaningful consultation is

 23 important to us.

 24 I want to thank everybody for taking the

 25 time to be here today. We have the room set up in a
 7

 1 circle, and I would like to encourage anybody who wants to

 2 sit at the circle to participate at the circle so that we

 3 can really approach this as a two-way dialogue and two-way

 4 conversation. But we understand that people -- there's a

 5 lot going on right now. People may need to go in and out

 6 of meetings. And if you want to sit closer to the doors,

 7 that's fine.

 8 But wanted to say again thank you so much

 9 for being here today. I want to turn it over to my fellow

 10 Commissioners before we get into some housekeeping items

 11 and start the Consultation format. So I'll turn it over

 12 to our Vice Chair.

 13 MS. ISOM-CLAUSE: Hi. I'm Kathy

 14 Isom-Clause. I'm Vice Chair of the Commission, and I'm

 15 Taos Pueblo.

 16 I'd also like to thank the Salt River

 17 Pima-Maricopa Indian Community for having us here, and I'd

 18 like to thank him for his words, setting us off on a good

 19 path, a productive path for our Consultation.

 20 I'd also like to echo the Chairman's words

 21 about the importance of ongoing dialogue, about this being

 22 a bilateral conversation, that we are not (indiscernible)

 23 regulations or policies but really working with the

 24 regulated communities. We are all here to make sure that

 25 we are doing the best work that we can.
 8

 1 Just one more housekeeping point that I'd

 2 also like to mention. We are in the process of developing

 3 our required strategic plan, and the Consultation topics

 4 that we have today reflect many of the Commission's

 5 priorities. So the comments we hear throughout the

 6 process will be used to form the strategic plan as well.

 7 And there's going to be opportunity at a later date this

 8 year to review comment on that plan separately, and we

 9 will keep you informed as we know more about that process

 10 going forward.

 11 So (speaking in Native language). I'd like

 12 to thank you all for being here and having this dialogue

 13 with us and look forward to hearing your comments.

 14 I will turn it over to

 15 Commissioner Simermeyer.

 16 MR. SIMERMEYER: Thank you. Good afternoon.

 17 I'm Sequoyah Simermeyer, the third member of the

 18 Commission, and I'm a member of the Coharie Tribe in North

 19 Carolina and want to join my colleagues in both thanking

 20 the Indian Community here for hosting us and for having

 21 the opportunity to engage this Consultation and also their

 22 sentiments about the importance of having a collaborative

 23 relationship with Indian Country. It's -- I'm

 24 appreciative that -- all the Commission shares an

 25 appreciation for our responsibilities to engage with the
 9

 1 Tribes, and not just because it makes our decisions more

 2 defensible and more informed and more accurate but because

 3 it helps define and maintain our unique relationship

 4 through the federal government and Tribal governments.

 5 So thanks so much for your time, and we are

 6 looking forward to this conversation today.

 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you,

 8 Commissioners.

 9 So let me raise a few points regarding our

 10 format today. We have subject matter experts who will

 11 give some brief background about each of the topics that

 12 we are here to discuss. I think we have six topics, and

 13 we have subject matter experts to lay the opening -- the

 14 framework for each. We are going to introduce those

 15 folks, but we have a lot of dedicated members of the NIGC

 16 team primarily from our regional office here with us as

 17 well. I'll leave introductions of our team in total to

 18 our individual introductions we'll have when we go around

 19 the room. So what I mean by that, let me just start by

 20 saying who our subject matter experts are who are going to

 21 help us open things up.

 22 We have our division of technology director

 23 here with us today, Mr. Travis Waldo. We have our finance

 24 director, Yvonne Lee. We have our training manager, Steve

 25 Brewer. We have our chief of staff, Shannon O'Loughlin.
 10

 1 And from the Office of General Counsel, our associate

 2 general counsel, Ms. Heather Corson here. We have other

 3 members in the back.

 4 But, again, the purpose of these

 5 Consultations is meaningful two-way dialogue. In addition

 6 to informing NIGC about concerns or questions that Indian

 7 Country has, we always think there's some benefit to all

 8 of us learning from each other. So we always open up our

 9 Consultations with an introduction of everyone in the

 10 room. As we do this, I do want to let everyone know we

 11 have a transcriber with us. At the end of this

 12 Consultation, all comments will be transcribed, again, for

 13 the benefit of our fellow regulators, benefit of Indian

 14 gaming partners. And at the end of our Consultation

 15 series, towards the end of June we will be compiling all

 16 comments and evaluating all comments as we consider

 17 appropriate next steps on each of the Consultation topics

 18 that we will discuss today.

 19 So bottom line as we go around and introduce

 20 who we are, if you could please say your name and spell

 21 your name if possible for the transcriber, as well as

 22 please state what community you are here to represent,

 23 that will help facilitate all of our conversation today.

 24 So with that, I'm going to turn it over to

 25 all of you so you can all introduce yourselves and get to
 11

 1 know -- get to know each other a little bit better. And

 2 I'll start over with the executive director of Tonto

 3 Apache.

 4 MR. HOOSAVA: My name is Ferrell Hoosava.

 5 I'm with Tonto Apache Tribe. I'm the executive director.

 6 MR. NANTY: Hubert Nanty, with the Tonto

 7 Apache Tribe.

 8 MR. NIXON: Sam Nixon. I'm the executive

 9 director here at Salt River.

 10 MR. GARCIA: (Speaking in Native language.)

 11 My name is Albert A. Garcia, Junior. I'm from the Pascua

 12 Yaqui Tribe, the executive director of gaming office.

 13 MS. LOPEZ: Good morning. I'm Maria Lopez,

 14 and I'm the deputy chief at Pascua Yaqui Tribe.

 15 MS. FERREIRA: Good morning. My name is

 16 Judy Ferreira. I am the Phoenix regional (indiscernible)

 17 at the National Indian Gaming Commission. Happy to see

 18 everybody.

 19 MR. OLEA: Good morning. My name is

 20 Francisco Olea. I'm with the Pascua Yaqui Tribe, contract

 21 employee for the Office of the Attorney General and a law

 22 student.

 23 MS. LOMAYESVA: Good afternoon, everyone.

 24 My name is Amanda Lomayesva. I'm the assistant attorney

 25 general with the Pascua Yaqui Tribe.
 12

 1 MS. CASTILLION: Good morning. My name is

 2 Sylvia Castillion, and I am with Salt River Pima-Maricopa

 3 Indian Community, community regulatory agency department.

 4 MS. JIM-MONTOYA: Melissa Jim-Montoya, also

 5 with Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community.

 6 MR. RUSS: By the way, I'm Tim Russ. I'm

 7 with the local Phoenix regional office of the National

 8 Indian Gaming Commission.

 9 MS. SAMUEL: Good afternoon. Shawna Samuel.

 10 I'm a compliance officer with the Phoenix regional office

 11 as well.

 12 MR. PAGE: Good afternoon. My name is

 13 Robert Page. I'm with the Colorado River Indian Tribes

 14 Councilmembers.

 15 MR. STEVENS: Granthum Stevens, Colorado

 16 River Indian Tribes Councilmember.

 17 MR. KILLSBACK: This is my first time. The

 18 president -- Chairman. Sorry. Good afternoon. Dion

 19 Killsback, attorney with the law firm Rosette, LLP, member

 20 of the Cheyenne Tribe.

 21 MS. GRUBB: Hello, everyone. My name is

 22 Mariah Grubb. I work with the Commission in the

 23 headquarter office.

 24 MS. ECHO-HAWK: Hi. Lael Echo-Hawk,

 25 attorney with Hobbs Straus, Seminole Tribe of Florida,
 13

 1 Athabascan Indian and (indiscernible) Tribes.

 2 MR. HORVATH: Hello. Mark Horvath,

 3 attorney, Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation.

 4 MR. RAMOS: Good afternoon. Javier Ramos,

 5 in-house counsel, Gila River Indian Community.

 6 MR. WATERMAN: Donavan Waterman, Tonto

 7 Apache Tribe.

 8 MR. TIINNIN: I'm Junior Tiinnin. I

 9 represent the Tonto Apache Tribe.

 10 MS. SFIRIDIS: Hello. Stephanie Sfiridis,

 11 law clerk, Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe.

 12 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, everyone,

 13 for introducing yourselves.

 14 As I mentioned, this is really the

 15 discussion for all of us to benefit from. Some

 16 housekeeping items. We are going to have six topics:

 17 first one being rural outreach; second one being

 18 developing strong Tribal workforce through training; third

 19 one being management, contract regulations, and

 20 procedures; fourth one being technical standards for

 21 mobile gaming devices; fifth one being fees; and sixth one

 22 involving draft voluntary guidance for class III minimum

 23 control -- internal control standards. Let me repeat that

 24 again. It's voluntary guidance. Mr. Stevens, I'm looking

 25 in your direction. Voluntary, voluntary nonbinding
 14

 1 guidance regarding class III minimum internal controls.

 2 And did I say voluntary? I don't know if anybody heard me

 3 say voluntary, nonbinding guidance regarding class III

 4 minimum internal control.

 5 So we have six topics. We are going to open

 6 it up to background statements. We have a lot of ground

 7 to cover and we have a lot of time on the agenda, but

 8 there's no crime in finishing early. And so I want

 9 everybody to have a full opportunity to get any statements

 10 that they want on the record on the record. If we exhaust

 11 all conversation and all statements, we may finish well

 12 before our allotted time. That said, we also understand

 13 sometimes there are travel arrangements that all of you

 14 may have made and you may need to get out of here soon.

 15 So if somebody needs to get a statement on the record,

 16 please raise your hand and we will work you in at the

 17 outset before the actual background presentations.

 18 Does anybody need to catch a plane or get

 19 out of here right now? Okay.

 20 So we'll just kind of move forward with our

 21 standard agenda. We are going to hear -- we are going to

 22 open it up for questions and answers and dialogue at the

 23 end of each topic. Once we go through all the topics, we

 24 will have a catchall conversation. And so I don't want

 25 anybody to feel like this is the only bite of the apple to
 15

 1 get statements on the record. As I mentioned, we are

 2 going to have a rolling review process that's going to

 3 culminate at the end of June. If anybody wants to submit

 4 written comments during this period, we will review all

 5 written comments whenever they're submitted. Beyond that,

 6 if there are additional comments relating to a previous

 7 topic that somebody wants to raise, that's the purpose of

 8 the catchall conversation at the end. I want this to be

 9 part of an ongoing conversation. We are just going to go

 10 through things topic by topic in the interest of

 11 structure, but I don't want anybody to feel like there's

 12 only one bite at the apple.

 13 So before we begin, I do want to do some

 14 self marketing. We encourage vibrant dialogue today, but

 15 as you are driving home and you wish you had said

 16 something on the record, keep in mind we have other

 17 Consultations coming up down the pike. Next week we will

 18 be in San Diego in conjunction with the National Indian

 19 Gaming Association's annual conference. We will be

 20 hosting Consultations both on the six topics we are

 21 discussing today and we will have an additional

 22 conversation regarding class II grandfathering provisions.

 23 So we encourage you to get the word out regarding that

 24 Consultation.

 25 Next week, and I'm looking at Mr. Killsback
 16

 1 back there, we are very excited to be hosting a

 2 Consultation in Billings, Montana. So robust

 3 participation, but Northern Cheyenne Nation as well as if

 4 anybody goes out there would be greatly appreciated and

 5 encouraged. It's going to be the fruition of a promise we

 6 made a few years ago to hold a Consultation in the plains

 7 areas and someplace other than Rapid City or St. Paul. So

 8 we are coming out to Billings for that specific purpose.

 9 Beyond that, in addition to that, on May 4th

 10 we will be hosting a Consultation in conjunction with the

 11 Southern Gaming Summit in Biloxi, Mississippi. May 25th,

 12 we have -- the details are still being hammered out, but

 13 we are going to be holding a Consultation in conjunction

 14 with the Affiliated Tribes of Northwest Indians Conference

 15 in Portland, Oregon. So I encourage everybody to get the

 16 word out about these ongoing Consultations, submit

 17 comments as necessary, but never be afraid to approach any

 18 of us individually. We always make a point of being

 19 engaged on a first-name basis with our partners.

 20 Consultation is a broad concept that also includes the

 21 one-on-one relationships that we all have.

 22 So those are some of the Consultations we

 23 have coming around the corner, that's a little bit of

 24 background about how today's Consultation will be

 25 structured. At the end of each subject matter
 17

 1 presentation, I encourage all of you to be -- don't be

 2 shy, ask questions, yell at us, call us names if you need

 3 to, and we're here to really engage.

 4 So with that, I'll start us -- I mean, we

 5 will start off with our first topic, which is rural

 6 outreach. And I'm going to turn it over to our chief of

 7 staff, Ms. Shannon O'Loughlin.

 8 MS. O'LOUGHLIN: Hello. My name is Shannon

 9 Keller O'Loughlin. I'm a citizen of the Choctaw Nation of

 10 Oklahoma, and I'm also chief of staff with the National

 11 Indian Gaming Commission.

 12 I'm very happy to be here, always happy to

 13 be in Arizona, where I spent my college career and some of

 14 my early attorneyhood here as well. So nice to see

 15 everybody, and thank you for letting us be here.

 16 So let's get right into it. Rural outreach.

 17 This -- our rural outreach initiative was initiated by

 18 Chairman Chaudhuri a couple of years ago. We have a rural

 19 outreach coordinator who is stationed in Billings,

 20 Montana, who is working on our initiative. And so I'm

 21 going to tell you a little bit about that and hope to hear

 22 from you.

 23 So the NIGC would like to consult with you

 24 on our rural outreach initiative. We all know in Indian

 25 Country that most of our Tribal lands are in rural areas.
 18

 1 Reaching out to smaller gaming operations that may not be

 2 situated near a strong market is an important initiative

 3 of the agency. The NIGC recognizes the likely correlation

 4 between proximity to large population centers and the

 5 viability of economic opportunities for Tribes; therefore,

 6 NIGC appreciates that its functions will likely benefit

 7 from a greater understanding of the unique needs of

 8 smaller operations.

 9 NIGC has historically taken into account the

 10 needs and capabilities of smaller gaming operations

 11 through its regulations. For instance, NIGC's regulations

 12 for minimum internal control standards and accounting

 13 requirements differ between tier A facilities that earn

 14 less than 8 million, tier B facilities that earn between 8

 15 and 15 million, and tier C facilities that earn over

 16 15 million. And we know from annual gross gaming revenue

 17 that the majority of Tribal gaming operations throughout

 18 Indian Country are smaller facilities with lower gross

 19 gaming revenue. Many small, rural gaming operations

 20 provide their communities with much needed jobs but may

 21 earn little net revenue to support Tribal government

 22 services.

 23 The Commission has a responsibility to

 24 review regulations to assure the compliance is reasonable

 25 and achievable for all Tribal operations while protecting
 19

 1 the integrity of gaming as a whole. The NIGC may find

 2 through this Consultation and from your comments that

 3 current regulations could be amended to better address the

 4 regulatory needs of smaller operations.

 5 In addition, the NIGC provides technical

 6 assistance and training to all Tribes and enforces

 7 regulations to ensure Tribes are the primary beneficiaries

 8 of the gaming operations. If the agency can provide

 9 training and technical assistance better suited to smaller

 10 operations, the agency would appreciate your feedback on

 11 that as well.

 12 In addition, in order to better meet

 13 technical assistance and training needs of small, rural

 14 Tribes, the Commission is also considering creating an

 15 eighth region that would include North Dakota, South

 16 Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana. These states are currently

 17 served out of the St. Paul region, which is the largest

 18 administrative region of the agency and currently covers

 19 9 states, 59 Tribes, and 144 gaming operations.

 20 To help address the need of western Tribes

 21 in the region, in 2003 the Rapid City satellite office was

 22 added to the St. Paul region to better reach the gaming

 23 operations in North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and

 24 Montana. By splitting up the St. Paul and Rapid City

 25 offices into separate administrative regions, the St. Paul
 20

 1 regional office would then cover only 5 states ó

 2 Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Nebraska ó 37

 3 Tribes and 95 Tribal gaming operations. The new Rapid

 4 City regional office would cover 4 states ó Montana,

 5 Wyoming, North and South Dakota ó 22 Tribes, and 45 Tribal

 6 gaming operations. This split will not take away

 7 resources or budget from any region and only split the

 8 resources between the St. Paul and Rapid City offices as

 9 appropriate.

 10 The NIGC would like to hear any questions or

 11 feedback and asks specifically for your discussion and

 12 comments about whether regulatory revisions are needed

 13 that protect Tribal gaming revenue and the integrity of

 14 gaming industry while not burdening smaller operations;

 15 whether NIGC should adjust the way we do business in our

 16 training, technical assistance, and compliance efforts to

 17 provide better assistance where needed; and finally

 18 whether the NIGC should create an eighth region to provide

 19 a stronger connection to Tribes located in North and South

 20 Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming.

 21 And with that, I open it up for consultation

 22 or questions.

 23 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you,

 24 Ms. O'Loughlin.

 25 So with that, the floor is open to everyone
 21

 1 here. And it's not a real formal way that we are

 2 approaching this, but Mr. Tim Russ, back there, has a

 3 microphone. Just please feel free to raise your hand if

 4 you have any comments you would like to share on our rural

 5 outreach initiative.

 6 Yes, sir.

 7 MR. HOOSAVA: Ferrell Hoosava, Tonto Apache.

 8 Basically what you are saying, then, with

 9 this comment is that current regulations require

 10 amendments to better address the regulatory needs of

 11 smaller, rural operations. I mean, that could be a number

 12 of things for an operation. You know, we are a small --

 13 we consider ourselves a small operation. Arizona has a

 14 few smaller operations versus, you know, a facility like

 15 this. So anything, you know, in terms of what that

 16 statement is there, you know, any type of structure or

 17 additional needs that need to be met in terms of

 18 regulation is always an expense to a small operation. So,

 19 you know, that opens up the door to a lot of conversation

 20 with you, I guess, with the NIGC and to see what is really

 21 in that current regulation, what does that mean to the

 22 NIGC in terms of what -- dealing with rural versus, you

 23 know, metro.

 24 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, sir, for

 25 that comment.
 22

 1 And just a little bit of background about

 2 how we will proceed. Really I think anyone from NIGC may

 3 have relevant comments to provide, and really we are all

 4 free to kind of jump in at any time. I'll do my best to

 5 frame things in my way, but fellow Commissioners as well

 6 as our leadership here, you know, we all have slightly

 7 different perspectives.

 8 When we talk about seeking comments

 9 regarding any positive regulatory tweaks that may be made,

 10 we are really trying to focus on positive suggestions. So

 11 if we are -- if we are ever to consider a regulatory

 12 tweak, I don't want there to be a concern that we are

 13 looking at any of our tweaks from the perspective of

 14 trying to slow down operations or make operations more

 15 difficult.

 16 In fact, one of our guiding principles as an

 17 agency is strict adherence to our regulatory

 18 responsibilities while not creating artificial roadblocks

 19 to the entrepreneurial spirit of Tribes. So we do want to

 20 hear from Indian Country regarding any proposed regulatory

 21 tweaks that may help us still maintain our regulatory

 22 responsibilities but make operations easier. So there

 23 could be tweaks that streamline operations while still

 24 address risk sufficiently. So those types of regulatory

 25 tweaks, we welcome any input that Indian Country may have.
 23

 1 Short of actual regulatory tweaks, there are

 2 a number of things that we are doing and we have done as

 3 an agency to support small and rural operations, and we

 4 are happy to do those things administratively. And let me

 5 go through a few examples of things that we are doing to

 6 support rural communities. But there's only so much that

 7 you can do administratively. Sometimes a regulation tweak

 8 may be necessary to really streamline activities. So

 9 that's what we are really hoping to hear from folks on.

 10 So some examples of things that we are doing

 11 administratively, as I mentioned before we have our

 12 technology director here, Mr. Travis Waldo, and that's

 13 part of our technology initiative. Staying ahead of the

 14 technology curve is one of our tadpole initiatives. But

 15 technology works hand in hand with rural outreach.

 16 Technology division was developed in part to support our

 17 rural partners who have limited budgets to attend

 18 trainings, to have the -- you know, do all the things that

 19 regulators need to do to make sure that vulnerabilities

 20 are protected, that their IT is fully operational. So we

 21 developed this technology division to support Indian

 22 Country the best we could.

 23 One of the first things Mr. Waldo initiated

 24 as, you know, head of this initiative is the development

 25 of IT vulnerabilities assessments that are free of charge
 24

 1 and available upon request of Tribal communities, whereby

 2 our team will go out -- and Travis can speak to this a lot

 3 better than I can. Our team will go out and work with

 4 regulators and perform vulnerability assessments free of

 5 charge and provide a report so that issues can be

 6 addressed before they ever become loss issues or

 7 compliance issues. That's one example.

 8 Another example, we developed a rural

 9 outreach coordinator. Another example, we have targeted

 10 trainings that we've crafted to support rural outreach.

 11 So we are trying to do what we can administratively. But

 12 if the regulations, you know, legal things that we can

 13 issue that Indian Country thinks that we could be more

 14 supportive on, we want to hear and we want to be as

 15 helpful as we can.

 16 So I'm sorry for speaking so long on the

 17 topic, but that's a great question or a great point that

 18 you made. We are not here to regulate just for the sake

 19 of regulation.

 20 Thank you, sir.

 21 MR. NANTY: Hubert Nanty, Tonto Apache

 22 Tribe.

 23 I've seen the restrictions of development

 24 that sometimes gets us into a bind, but for rural

 25 community it has its struggles. Of course I'm not the
 25

 1 first one to say this. Our employment pool many times

 2 repeats itself in terms of the same employee that we let

 3 go a week ago will return six months from now because we

 4 are running out of employees, or other potential

 5 employees. But perhaps what really -- not just necessary

 6 along the employees are reaching out for employment

 7 opportunities.

 8 But more along the lines of

 9 self-regulations, I have been very interested in seeing

 10 how many Tribes actually make it to that status of

 11 attaining self-regulation. And as I looked at it, and I

 12 haven't done this in a little while, but some of the

 13 requirements for attaining self-regulation is so

 14 far-fetched that a larger metro community has no problem

 15 reaching those, yet it's not readily accessible by rural

 16 Tribal gaming operations. If that can be reviewed -- if

 17 it has, then I've not seen it. Maybe I'm not accessed to

 18 Internet that often because I'm in a rural community. I

 19 don't know. But that would be a challenge for me.

 20 I think there's -- what you've covered as

 21 far as rural outreach is very general, and it would --

 22 those same principles are no different than your general

 23 outreach anyway. But what specifically is NIGC doing to

 24 help those rural communities attain perhaps that

 25 self-regulation status?
 26

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that

 2 comment.

 3 I'm going to turn it over to fellow

 4 Commissioner Simermeyer here in a moment. And

 5 Mr. Simermeyer serves as our Office of Self-Regulation

 6 director. But I really want to thank you for that point.

 7 To my knowledge, this is the first time that

 8 rural outreach has been tied to our self-regulation

 9 regulations, and that's something that I am just speaking

 10 for myself would welcome more -- well, a discussion among

 11 the Commission about how we can look at our

 12 self-regulation regulations with an eye to our emphasis on

 13 supporting rural communities.

 14 That said, we understand it's a rigorous

 15 process that Tribes have to go through to achieve

 16 self-regulation certification. We stand -- I mean, we

 17 always stand ready and willing to work through that

 18 process with any potential applicants. But you are right,

 19 there's only a handful of communities that have fully

 20 achieved self-regulation certification because as far as I

 21 understand it requires a pretty robust look-back for the

 22 last I think three years regarding compliance. Three

 23 years? And that's an expensive, very rigorous process.

 24 And if there are ways that we can be more supportive of

 25 rural communities with regard to that regulation I, for
 27

 1 one, would be happy to hear it. But I'm going to turn it

 2 over to our self reg director here.

 3 MR. SIMERMEYER: Well, thank you for that

 4 fact that you are making on this point.

 5 To speak just generally about

 6 self-regulation, as a full Commission we haven't had the

 7 opportunity to review a request for self-regulation yet.

 8 So what I can give is historical background and my own

 9 personal perspectives about how it perhaps is an

 10 opportunity, how we interpret it, what is laid out.

 11 So one thing I think that has happened

 12 recently with the self-regulation program is that in 2013

 13 there was a regulatory reform, a reg shift towards

 14 focusing more on the Tribe's capacity and not necessarily

 15 on the performance of past activities in order to make a

 16 finding that the Tribe would receive a self-regulation

 17 certification. I think that's a positive step because I

 18 think that is more in line with what the intent of the

 19 rule was when it was first passed, is that self-regulation

 20 really is a self determination, self governance type of

 21 policy. So for each Tribe, they need to make a decision,

 22 self determination, type of self governance program; they

 23 need to come to the federal government to kind of stick as

 24 close as we can to what the law says about what's required

 25 for it.
 28

 1 So as a group here, the three of us have

 2 never had the opportunity to interpret that for the

 3 self-regulation requests, and you are right there's only

 4 three Tribes right now who are -- have self-regulation

 5 certification. And I think part of that has to do with --

 6 what I am seeing in my personal experience is there's a

 7 cost-benefit analysis that Tribes say is this the

 8 direction we want to go, is it worth it. And so that is

 9 one thing that in my position it is appropriate for us as

 10 a Commission to look at, what can we do to streamline

 11 that, to make sure that we are sticking as close as we can

 12 to what the law -- to the standard for IGRA, make sure our

 13 regulations aren't getting in the way and keep going with

 14 the trend we started in 2013 to focus on capacity, not

 15 some sort of, you know, audit that goes in other

 16 directions. But I appreciate your raising that.

 17 And besides that, if your Tribe or any other

 18 Tribe is interested in talking more about it, I'd love to

 19 talk with you more about what it might look like for your

 20 Tribe. But it's definitely a model that fits a whole

 21 different -- a whole profile of Tribes, from smaller

 22 Tribal operations to larger ones.

 23 MR. NANTY: Thank you. Thank you very much.

 24 I know that one of the requirements is a

 25 financial audit which every Tribe is required to -- I
 29

 1 should say every gaming operation is required to submit.

 2 Within those audits is the (indiscernible) procedures

 3 report for review.

 4 If there are any findings in those -- in

 5 that category, they're usually corrected either

 6 immediately or on the spot or within a short period of

 7 time. The internal controls on financial -- or financial

 8 internal controls are also addressed, so any weaknesses or

 9 material sufficient findings are also usually corrected.

 10 So that information is readily available to your agency as

 11 it is. So this is almost a redundant process of -- if I

 12 apply for self-regulation certification, you already have

 13 that information. So it's almost like a dual process that

 14 Tribes have to jump through, yet we ourselves have been in

 15 this process for 20 years. We can correct those. We have

 16 the ability and the strength and the maturity to

 17 understand what accounting professions are looking for and

 18 how these are correctable and attainable.

 19 I think it should be the Commission's goal

 20 to make sure that rural communities can use this as

 21 attaining a process where Tribes are saying, hey, look,

 22 here is our self-regulation certificate. As you are

 23 saying, there's only five, yet how many gaming operations

 24 are there and how many are -- or how many years has this

 25 regulation been in effect?
 30

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Again, I want to thank

 2 you for that comment.

 3 Tying to our rural outreach initiative is a

 4 worthwhile discussion. So I think you are correct, the

 5 last certification we issued was Seminole Tribe in

 6 Florida, I think. I believe so. So we did a ceremony out

 7 at Seminole in which we celebrated that because I think

 8 everybody was exhausted by the end of it. And what I mean

 9 by that is we sent a team from compliance as well as a

 10 number of attorneys out to Seminole for weeks, and

 11 Seminole dedicated a large team to work through all the

 12 documents relating to that three-year look-back that was

 13 necessary. And they got to where they needed to get, but,

 14 again, that related to class II self-regulation, and there

 15 was a lot of -- there are a lot of resources expended in

 16 that process. Now, not all communities are able to bring

 17 to bear all the attention and resources that are necessary

 18 to get there, and that's an excellent point.

 19 So just in terms of way of structure, the

 20 Office of Self-Regulation is mandated by our regulations

 21 to provide a recommendation to the full Commission. And

 22 so that Office of Self-Regulation will work with that team

 23 that I mentioned, the attorneys, the compliance officers,

 24 to process an application that's brought in by a different

 25 Nation and then make a recommendation to the Commission as
 31

 1 a whole. And one of the Commissioners is -- serves as the

 2 director. You know, that's why we are so thankful that

 3 Commissioner Simermeyer wears that hat. But it is an

 4 extensive process and an expensive process, and we

 5 recognize that.

 6 So I don't know -- since this topic involves

 7 rural outreach, I don't know if we can go further into the

 8 weeds today, but I thank you for bringing those two ideas

 9 together. Or if there are specific ideas in terms of

 10 tweaks of either a regulation or how we approach these

 11 matters, please let us know. But our attorneys are always

 12 open to work through applicant's -- or work through the

 13 process with applicants and our compliance office is as

 14 well. And I keep saying compliance. I know Yvonne's

 15 team, as finance director, had a heavy hand to play -- not

 16 heavy hand. Yvonne doesn't have heavy hands; she works

 17 with folks. But she had a heavy role to play in that past

 18 application as well. But thank you so much for that

 19 comment.

 20 Additional comments? Questions? Yes, sir.

 21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You just mentioned

 22 the other two Tribes. Seminole you said is one. And the

 23 other two that have that sort of regulation?

 24 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Oh, boy.

 25 MR. BREWER: The NAGA Tribe and Grand Ronde.
 32

 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.

 2 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I do want to take this

 3 opportunity. At the front end of our introductions we

 4 always recognize NIGC alumni because we are always

 5 thankful to folks who are willing to, you know, take the

 6 slings and arrows in serving in these seats, and I didn't

 7 get an opportunity to call to Ms. Echo-Hawk. Ms. Lael

 8 Echo-Hawk is sitting back there. She served as counselor

 9 to the chair and was very responsible -- I'm sorry. Not

 10 very responsible. I don't want to throw her under the bus

 11 here. Very involved in the most recent regulatory

 12 overhaul that NIGC undertook. So I just want to say thank

 13 you to Lael back there.

 14 I don't want to blame you for any -- well,

 15 anyway.

 16 Additional questions, comments? Yes, sir.

 17 MR. STEVENS: Granthum Stevens, Colorado

 18 River Indian Tribe.

 19 I think one of the areas that you are going

 20 to see -- I love the way NIGC is approaching the rural

 21 issue when it comes up. As you know, being in a rural

 22 Tribe, a lot of rural Tribes that sit in here, we look at

 23 gaming different. Gaming in our area is really getting

 24 jobs for our people. It's really to give the economic

 25 development to our area. For La Paz County, we are the
 33

 1 largest employer for our county. And so when we look at

 2 rural, that's what we bring to the table, is how do we

 3 bring our communities together.

 4 And I know some of the people that worked

 5 out there at the St. Paul area, and that is a very vast

 6 area to cover. How they do it, I have no clue. But I

 7 don't know. One guy, he was like in -- he traveled I

 8 think eight months out of the year. He was on the road

 9 all the time. So I understand by breaking that up, I can

 10 see the benefit coming out of it. I mean, Oklahoma, we

 11 broke Oklahoma up years ago to where we had the west

 12 region and the east region. Tim took over the Tulsa

 13 office and then we created the one in Oklahoma City where

 14 Tom Cunningham is. I mean, so we've seen the benefit

 15 coming out of it. And I think if you are going to strive

 16 for that, I think that it would be very good in NIGC's

 17 opportunity.

 18 Budgetary wise, I will just -- I can see the

 19 offset coming up because you are not paying for the rental

 20 car, not paying for that flight to go all the way across.

 21 So I think it's very needed. But at the same time, I

 22 think with Tulsa we remember that when we hear rural,

 23 especially being from a rural area, when you hear rural

 24 that's the first thing you think of is, wait a minute, how

 25 is that outreach actually going to help, how is it
 34

 1 actually going to be to really our benefit, how is it

 2 going to work for us. Because like I said, we look at

 3 gaming a little different.

 4 We look at gaming not as a true economic

 5 development (indiscernible) in my view as we sit here, but

 6 also as if they're saying how do I employ my people, how

 7 do I get people into their positions. Because we are in

 8 the same boat as Hubert said from Tonto. We do the same

 9 boat, we recycle our employees back in. They may get

 10 done, about six months later they need a job, we put them

 11 right back to work. So, I mean, that's the rural struggle

 12 we deal with. We don't have an employee population to

 13 where we can pick people up. It just comes down to how do

 14 we keep our facility going.

 15 So I think if you benefit and I think the

 16 Tribes up there, if they are willing to have that

 17 separation and get their own office to where they can

 18 start to communicate with them, I'm in agreement with it.

 19 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, sir. Thank

 20 you.

 21 I mean, really we don't want to just be so

 22 narrowly focused just to think about what we can do in the

 23 regulatory concept -- context. We also understand that we

 24 are part of a larger federal network. I mean, a lot of

 25 the either operational or regulatory issues that rural
 35

 1 communities face with respect to gaming, they interact

 2 with a lot of other governance issues that those Nations

 3 have. So if there are conversations that we can help

 4 facilitate in terms of broadband or -- and reach out to

 5 partners at FCC or if there are things that we can be

 6 doing that have impacts on gaming that are a part of

 7 larger challenges that rural communities face, we want to

 8 be aware of those operational or administrative ideas as

 9 well. So we may not be driving the train on those, on

 10 those initiatives involving other agencies, but we want to

 11 be aware of those so that as we interact with them we know

 12 how to -- you know, issues that we can bring up on behalf

 13 of our regulatory partners. So goes beyond regulation.

 14 And to your point, Mr. Stevens, this is

 15 really about efforts the rural communities are undertaking

 16 to provide necessary programs and services on the ground

 17 to our members. And so we recognize that and thank you

 18 for that comment.

 19 So if there are no additional comments or

 20 questions on this topic, thank you so much to Shannon for

 21 serving as -- I mean for providing us that background.

 22 And we will move on to our developing a strong workforce

 23 through training topic. Right now it's close to 2:00.

 24 After the third topic if we are -- you know, if it's

 25 looking like this Consultation will truly go a few hours,
 36

 1 we may take a break. I know it's a long time for folks to

 2 sit. We may take a five-minute break after topic 3. But

 3 we will just see how things go.

 4 So with that, we have Mr. Steve Brewer --

 5 are you ready, Steve? -- here with us, who is going to

 6 provide some background information on our workforce

 7 initiative.

 8 It's hard to get a mike out of --

 9 MR. BREWER: I'm Steve Brewer. I'm training

 10 manager for National Indian Gaming Commission.

 11 Can everybody hear me in the back? Okay.

 12 Never mind. We will use a mike.

 13 So, again, my name is Steve Brewer. I'm the

 14 training manager for National Indian Gaming Commission.

 15 Just to get started, a strong workforce is

 16 an essential ingredient to the success of any business.

 17 The NIGC believes that one of our best assets is our

 18 employees and recognize that this is also the case for

 19 Tribal gaming operations. With this in mind, the

 20 Commission has prioritized supporting a strong workforce

 21 both within NIGC and among our Tribal regulatory partners

 22 as one of our four initiatives.

 23 In order to foster a strong Tribal

 24 workforce, NIGC seeks to enhance our external training

 25 program and assure that it continues to meet the needs and
 37

 1 demands of the industry. To that end, we take this

 2 opportunity to update you on the direction and commitment

 3 of our training program and to consult with you how best

 4 to deliver a better training program to meet the needs of

 5 our Tribal regulatory partners.

 6 Currently, the NIGC offers three types of

 7 training events. The regional training conference. Our

 8 trainings are derived from our training catalog and are

 9 based on the needs of the region where training is

 10 occurring.

 11 Regulating gaming technology is geared

 12 towards providing us both an understanding of a variety of

 13 technology on the casino floor and strategies on how to

 14 effectively regulate and understand such technology. The

 15 RGT training for 2017 has been suspended to allow time to

 16 revamp the training and make sure new technologies are

 17 included. It's anticipated by me that the new RGT course

 18 will resume in 2018.

 19 Finally, the site specific training,

 20 training requested by a Tribe to meet the individual needs

 21 of its Tribal government, gaming commission, regulators,

 22 and operators.

 23 As Jonodev was talking about, the NIGC has

 24 developed some assessment tools that Tribes can request at

 25 no cost. The first assessment opportunity is the
 38

 1 information technology and vulnerability assessment, or

 2 ITVA. The ITVA performed by NIGC IT auditors is to

 3 complete a vulnerability analysis of the facility's IT

 4 system to identify potential security threats.

 5 The second type of assessment is internal

 6 control assessments, or ICA, and that's performed by our

 7 audit staff. This can be a comprehensive review of the

 8 Tribal gaming facility's entire system of internal

 9 controls or specific systems such as internal audit.

 10 Based on the findings that they find in either a completed

 11 ITVA or ICA, the training program can then develop

 12 training specific for that Tribe.

 13 All NIGC training is developed to support

 14 our Tribal customers. The training requests process is

 15 used to shape and deliver training courses and programs

 16 that are uniquely tailored to each organization based on

 17 their specific needs and requests. The NIGC training

 18 program is currently undergoing a process to revamp,

 19 revise, and update all of our training offerings.

 20 NIGC is committed to craft trainings that

 21 are carefully targeted to meet the evolving needs of our

 22 regulatory partners and address high priority matters

 23 critical to safeguarding the Indian gaming industry. In

 24 this manner, the NIGC training program is in the process

 25 of revising its instructor-led training courses to provide
 39

 1 more interactive and hands-on approaches. As with the

 2 commitment to the value we put on training, we have

 3 recently brought in additional staff to help develop our

 4 training platform and to assist with incorporating new

 5 methods of training. Additionally, we will utilize more

 6 technology in our training offerings. We're working

 7 towards offering online on-demand training and

 8 additionally for live videoconferencing events.

 9 With kick-off of our current training year,

 10 the NIGC has included new training classes, including a

 11 12-hour comprehensive training for internal audit, a

 12 12-hour hands-on workshop for developing Tribal internal

 13 control standards and assist with internal controls, a new

 14 gamesmanship 2.0 training, and a new IT training relating

 15 to the auditing of class II control standards as part of

 16 54320. Each training is designed to be interactive and

 17 take a hands-on approach. We are in the process of

 18 revising our full training catalog to reflect these new

 19 training opportunities.

 20 In 2016, the NIGC instituted knowledge

 21 reviews in certain audit courses. The intent of the

 22 knowledge reviews is to review the effectiveness of our

 23 training. The testing is performed at two points: first

 24 upon completion of a training class to understand whether

 25 a student learned; and a second, another test is performed
 40

 1 90 days later to see if the student retained the

 2 information. For 2017, the NIGC expanded the knowledge

 3 reviews for all courses offered by us.

 4 So the NIGC -- excuse me. NIGC is

 5 interested in learning from you about what our training

 6 program can do to meet the needs of your operations, what

 7 additional type of training or events would you like to

 8 see, what more can training -- can the training program do

 9 to help a Tribe stay abreast of emerging trends in Indian

 10 gaming, including technological developments such as

 11 online and on-demand training, smartphone or tablet apps

 12 or other types of technology. Or do you have any other

 13 comments or concerns that you would like to share? We

 14 look forward to hearing your input and questions.

 15 Any questions?

 16 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. Works for us.

 17 No shame, no crime in finishing early. I just want to

 18 repeat that.

 19 Okay. So with no additional questions,

 20 thank you so much, Mr. Brewer.

 21 We will move on to topic No. 3. This is a

 22 little bit more open-ended because we are looking at any

 23 and all possible improvements to this process. But our

 24 third topic involves management contract regulations and

 25 procedures. It's a broad topic, but to clarify it all we
 41

 1 have a director of finance, Ms. Yvonne Lee, and she will

 2 demystify this for us. She will also field all the tough

 3 questions.

 4 MS. LEE: My name is Yvonne Lee, and I am

 5 the director of finance for the NIGC.

 6 One of our primary initiatives at NIGC is to

 7 protect against anything that amounts to gamesmanship on

 8 the back of Tribes. Gamesmanship is our broad term for

 9 any third-party threats to Tribal assets or operations.

 10 It includes third-party interference with the Tribe's sole

 11 proprietor interest in these gaming operations.

 12 Many gamesmanship violations may occur when

 13 the third-party vendor or service provider is managing

 14 some aspects of the gaming operations without an approved

 15 management contract or where a management contractor is

 16 operating outside of an approved management contract.

 17 Thus, approval of management contracts by NIGC Chair is

 18 required by IGRA as a means of protecting the Tribes

 19 against gamesmanship. The Chair has a fiduciary

 20 responsibility to Tribes to ensure that they remain the

 21 primary beneficiary of their gaming operations. The

 22 management contract and background process should protect

 23 against gamesmanship, but the process should also not

 24 stymie the entrepreneurial spirit of Tribes.

 25 With this in mind, the Commission is seeking
 42

 1 feedback and recommendations on whether changes are needed

 2 to the management contract and background investigation

 3 regulations. Specifically, we want input that may improve

 4 our efficiency in the management contract review process

 5 but also continue to protect Tribes' sole proprietary

 6 interest in their gaming activities. To provide some

 7 context to this Consultation, I'll briefly summarize the

 8 current approval process. Then we will open the floor to

 9 questions and suggestions.

 10 The management contract is any contract,

 11 subcontract, or collateral agreement between an Indian

 12 Tribe and contractor or between a contractor and

 13 subcontractor that provides for the management of all or

 14 part of the gaming operation. Detailed requirements for

 15 management contract can be found on our website. To

 16 commence the review and approval process, submitters must

 17 submit a management contract and all relevant documents in

 18 accordance with 25 C.F.R. parts 531 and 533 to NIGC.

 19 The Chairman must also make a determination

 20 that the manager is suitable to manage the gaming

 21 operation. The background investigation process is an

 22 important component of this submission. Background

 23 information must be submitted for all persons and entities

 24 that have a financial interest in or management

 25 responsibility for the management contract as identified
 43

 1 in 25 C.F.R. part 537.

 2 Once the contract is submitted to the NIGC,

 3 they are processed and reviewed based on the order

 4 received. We have distributed three handouts to help you

 5 understand our review process. The first handout is the

 6 process flow chart. The second and third handouts are the

 7 NIGC checklist for management contract review and

 8 background investigation. You can also print the

 9 checklist from NIGC's website.

 10 As you can see on the flow chart which

 11 illustrates the process flow of management contract

 12 review, once the submission is received it will

 13 immediately be distributed to all staff involved to start

 14 the review process. We will first send our submission

 15 letter to inform the parties if there are any information

 16 and/or documents still missing. Then the staff in both

 17 the divisional finance and the Office of General Counsel

 18 will conduct the review for their respective areas as

 19 outlined on the flow chart. During the review process,

 20 there will be internal discussions and meetings among the

 21 NIGC staff to coordinate the review and monitor the

 22 status.

 23 After the review is completed, we will send

 24 out an issues letter to notify the parties if there are

 25 any issues with the management contract. In addition, the
 44

 1 NIGC staff will work with the parties to help them

 2 understand issues if necessary.

 3 Please bear in mind that sometimes it might

 4 take a few rounds to resolve all issues. The length of

 5 NIGC review is dependent on several factors which can

 6 include the number of prior applications received and

 7 already in the review queue, the completeness of each

 8 submission, the responsiveness of the parties and

 9 compliance with the existing laws and regulations, and the

 10 complexity of the submission and those subject to

 11 background investigation.

 12 Once all issues are cleared and the

 13 submission is complete with all necessary documents, then

 14 the Chair has 180 days to approve or disapprove the

 15 management contract. The NIGC Chair may approve a

 16 management contract if it meets the standards of

 17 parts 531, 533, 535, or 537. If the NIGC Chair learns of

 18 any actions or conditions that violate these standards or

 19 the management deliberately or substantially failed to

 20 follow the terms of the management contract or Tribal

 21 gaming ordinance, the Chair may disapprove a submitted

 22 contract or void the contract or require nullification of

 23 an approved contract. If submitters find the Chair's

 24 determination unsatisfactory, they may appeal the

 25 decision.
 45

 1 If a Tribe wants to amend a term of an

 2 existing approved contract or simply extend a regional

 3 approved contract pursuant to 25 C.F.R. 535, it must

 4 submit an amendment and relevant documents, including a

 5 letter from the Tribal chairperson and associated

 6 resolution as well as background investigation

 7 applications.

 8 For new individuals or entities, background

 9 investigations are required. Individuals or entities

 10 previously found suitable may also need to have their

 11 background investigation updated depending on the length

 12 of the time since their last background investigation.

 13 We would now like to take this time to hear

 14 from you. Do you have any questions about the process or

 15 regulations or any suggestions as to how the NIGC can

 16 approve its efficiency in processing these applications

 17 and providing technical assistance? Thank you.

 18 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Yvonne.

 19 So, again, it's a broad topic. This is an

 20 opportunity really to share ideas. Any comments, thoughts

 21 regarding management agreement procedures, administrative

 22 approach to management agreements?

 23 Just by show of hands, how many communities

 24 are operating under a management agreement right now?

 25 Okay. Well --
 46

 1 MR. HOOSAVA: We learned from the very

 2 beginning on the first one that don't do them.

 3 (Laughter)

 4 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you. I mean, I

 5 think frankly Indian Country has more than enough

 6 knowledgeable resources to share ideas among Nations

 7 without various dos and don'ts regarding management

 8 agreements, but we are always interested in learning how

 9 we can do our job better. So this is kind of a selfish

 10 perspective from us, but we certainly know that each of

 11 your Nations have had their own experiences.

 12 So with that, again, no crime in finishing

 13 early. No shame in finishing early. Since I think we are

 14 doing well on time, if anybody wants to take a break, of

 15 course any of us can jump out at any time. But is there a

 16 consensus about moving forward? Should we move on to

 17 topics? Or it's a good time for a break; we are happy to

 18 do that as well. Just looking at eyes and nods in the

 19 room.

 20 Okay. We will just go ahead and move

 21 forward. I should mention Frank Olea back there is also

 22 an NIGC alum. He has already had a wealth of experience

 23 before going to law school, but he was with NIGC as a

 24 fellow and brought a lot of his perspective as a Tribal

 25 leader to NIGC. Thank you for his past service.
 47

 1 So with that, we will move on to the fourth

 2 topic. And if we have a lot of discussion, we can take a

 3 break afterwards, but we will just keep moving forward.

 4 Technical standards for mobile gaming

 5 devices. We have our director of the division of

 6 technology, Travis Waldo, here to kick us off.

 7 MR. WALDO: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank

 8 you for being here.

 9 Again, my name is Travis Waldo. I'm the

 10 director of technology for the National Indian Gaming

 11 Commission.

 12 The National Indian Gaming Commission is

 13 considering draft language to amend 25 C.F.R. 547.18 which

 14 would clarify and add new technical standards for wireless

 15 gaming systems and communication between mobile gaming

 16 communication devices and mobile gaming systems.

 17 These new direct regulatory standards

 18 provide clear and specific definitions that have not been

 19 included in the regulations previously. The new standards

 20 also support security and system integrity for mobile

 21 gaming operations. The draft language is based on input

 22 and collaboration with our Tribal partners. The intent of

 23 the new draft regulation is to support the growth and the

 24 innovation in mobile gaming systems.

 25 Portable handheld gaming devices have been
 48

 1 around for many years and are authorized in many state

 2 jurisdictions. Handheld gaming devices are electronic

 3 devices that allow casino patrons to play anywhere within

 4 the casino or within Tribal lands as defined by the Indian

 5 Gaming Regulatory Act, such as restaurants, hotels, or

 6 other amenities. The draft technical standards for mobile

 7 gaming devices will not authorize Internet gaming. These

 8 draft technical standards only address handheld mobile

 9 devices within Tribal lands.

 10 The draft technical standards, which can be

 11 found on our website, are proposed standards for Tribal

 12 review, comment, and Consultations.

 13 Any questions?

 14 MR. NANTY: What's the time frame?

 15 MR. WALDO: Chairman, what would be our time

 16 frame?

 17 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Time frame. Thank you

 18 for that question.

 19 So right now, again, if folks want to weigh

 20 in on whether or not this is even appropriate for a

 21 regulatory tweak, we are happy to hear that. Right now we

 22 are going to compile our comments at the end of June and

 23 figure our next steps.

 24 We had some excellent comments at our last

 25 Consultation about the pros and cons of moving forward
 49

 1 with the regulation on this topic versus potential

 2 guidance from NIGC. And the pros and cons kind of break

 3 down to the speed at which we are able to issue guidance,

 4 the speed at which we are able to amend guidance. We were

 5 thankful for those comments. And we are not -- we are not

 6 proceeding under a specific time frame to get a regulation

 7 passed. If the best path forward is truly guidance rather

 8 than regulation, we are open to that. But we are here to

 9 listen to Indian Country.

 10 That said, I think we've always been pretty

 11 assertive in terms of our Consultations. We've committed

 12 to doing our best to move forward with deliverables on

 13 past Consultations whenever we embark on a new

 14 Consultation series. And in short order, I think we are

 15 going to be issuing deliverables soon on past

 16 Consultations, but we are trying to get as much done this

 17 year as possible just because we want to keep moving

 18 forward on a positive trajectory. So I don't know if that

 19 helps with time frames. But bottom line, no specific one,

 20 but we want to get things done.

 21 MR. SIMERMEYER: Just this specific topic,

 22 not to caution against what the Chairman was saying, I

 23 agree with that, but I think that it might be helpful,

 24 Travis, if you could give a little bit of feedback in

 25 terms of that this is coming from Indian Country, the need
 50

 1 for it. But I don't know that it sort of has an emergency

 2 situation, correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe from a

 3 perspective to folks in terms of Travis's insight as the

 4 director of technology is really helpful because one of

 5 the challenges of the agency is how responsive do we need

 6 to be to change it. So if you can provide that, Travis,

 7 that might give some perspective too in terms of timing.

 8 MR. WALDO: There's no critical rush on

 9 this. This has been around for years. We all know that

 10 mobile handheld devices have been out there for years.

 11 There's just not been a very clear definition and

 12 regulation or technical standards as to, you know, how to

 13 implement it, what security standards are best, what

 14 practices are best. This is just kind of a response to

 15 that when we go out and do trainings. I get a lot of

 16 questions regarding mobile devices, you know, and not so

 17 much the CardMinders and the handhelds that we see today

 18 but kind of where we are going with that. Are iPads and

 19 other types of mobile devices that are going to be allowed

 20 to -- the intent of that was to kind of maybe give some

 21 growth to that side of mobile gaming, but certainly not a

 22 rush situation.

 23 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: So any additional

 24 comments, questions?

 25 I do want to thank Travis, you know, and his
 51

 1 leadership in flagging this as a potential issue of

 2 discussion. Because a lot of communities, as we know, are

 3 considering these wireless handheld devices to further

 4 their operations. And we have an eye -- as part of our

 5 stay ahead of the technology curve initiative, we have an

 6 eye towards doing whatever we can to help on the

 7 regulatory side of things, help augment the operational

 8 innovation that Tribal Nations are undertaking. So we

 9 know this is a burgeoning field in Indian Country, and so

 10 we want to be as helpful as we can on the regulatory side

 11 of things to help provide support while not getting in the

 12 way of, you know, healthy economic development activity.

 13 So thank you, Travis.

 14 Additional comments, questions?

 15 Okay. We are moving along pretty quickly.

 16 I'm sorry. Yes, Mr. Stevens.

 17 MR. STEVENS: I think my only concern --

 18 Colorado River Indian Tribes.

 19 I think my only concern is if you do a

 20 wireless gaming device that goes out, it's really designed

 21 for having that go beyond the intended area, right, rather

 22 than -- you have a machine out here. If you come over

 23 here and you can have it in here -- correct? Am I reading

 24 it right, or am I --

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Well, I think we've --
 52

 1 I mean, any regulatory tweak would be a matter for the

 2 Commission to discuss in light of Consultation comments.

 3 But I think our current course has always been to defer or

 4 to work with TGRAs as much as possible for Tribal

 5 Commissions to determine the gaming space that's

 6 regulated. Is that an accurate reflection?

 7 MR. STEVENS: That would be my next comment

 8 in that situation is giving guidance -- or giving the

 9 little flexibility back to NIGC in the areas where we

 10 don't want you guys to be at to begin with.

 11 MR. WALDO: No. The regulation states at

 12 the discretion of the TGRA, our position TGRA, as to where

 13 the gaming area actually is, not in our discretion.

 14 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: So I don't think any of

 15 us can comment on a draft that hasn't been drafted yet,

 16 but we have some kind of outline ideas.

 17 But I do feel comfortable -- and of course

 18 my fellow Commissioners can weigh in as appropriate.

 19 Certainly in the spirit of empowerment for Tribal

 20 regulatory bodies to make some of those decisions that are

 21 appropriate for the needs and realities of their community

 22 is something that I would think would definitely inform

 23 any regulation that we did on this. So deferring as much

 24 as possible to Tribal regulators and supporting our

 25 regulatory partners, that's kind of been a hallmark to our
 53

 1 approach, and I don't envision that changing. But it's

 2 hard to speak to a regulation that isn't --

 3 I mean, and I guarantee you this, we can say

 4 this, anything that is close to being promulgated or

 5 issued is going to go out for comment. It's going to go

 6 out for formal input from Indian Country as well. So this

 7 is -- this is kind of an initial feeler to see if this

 8 is -- you know, the points that Travis raised in his

 9 presentation and if this is something that would be

 10 helpful. And, again, we haven't even made a decision

 11 whether or not a regulatory approach or guidance approach

 12 would be the most sensible.

 13 So I don't know if that helps, Mr. Stevens.

 14 Okay.

 15 MR. STEVENS: It does.

 16 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you. Excellent

 17 comment.

 18 Additional questions or comments before we

 19 move on? How are folks doing break wise?

 20 Okay. Is there a comment back there?

 21 MR. PAGE: Robert Page, Colorado River

 22 Indian Tribe.

 23 What would be the originating purpose of

 24 this?

 25 MR. WALDO: Just originally to kind of spur
 54

 1 technology growth and get people thinking, you know, about

 2 that and to provide some clear definition and regulation

 3 that hasn't really existed in the past.

 4 MR. PAGE: Hasn't?

 5 MR. WALDO: Not really. It's not been

 6 clearly laid out for Tribes, you know, that we can do this

 7 and this is, you know, best practice to protect that, you

 8 know, these are standards for that. It's kind of all over

 9 the place and it's not very clearly defined. There's a

 10 lot of states that allow stuff like this, there's a lot of

 11 regulations out there on it; there's just nothing in our

 12 regulations that are very clear. So I get a lot of

 13 questions when we do trainings, and that's pretty much

 14 what spurred that.

 15 MR. PAGE: So it's not in use anywhere?

 16 MR. WALDO: Yeah, it's in use in a lot of

 17 different places. A lot of state jurisdictions have stuff

 18 like this, but I get a lot of questions from Tribal

 19 regulatory authorities.

 20 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that

 21 question.

 22 So we are trading back and forth a couple

 23 mikes. Did the transcriber get it? Excellent.

 24 Any other questions on mobile gaming

 25 devices? Okay.
 55

 1 We are moving on now to fifth of six topics.

 2 If anybody motions for a break, we will definitely take a

 3 break, but, again, we can all sneak out as necessary.

 4 We will move to No. 5, fees. And I just

 5 want to say just before turning it back over to

 6 Director Lee that I and I think all of us on the

 7 Commission, although I can't speak for anybody else, we

 8 are very excited about this very minor but important

 9 potential tweak to the way that we set our fees, namely

 10 I'm very excited about the timing involved. As a matter

 11 of good governance, having our fees process coincide a

 12 little bit more with our budget process I think will add

 13 to the efficiency and transparency at the agency, and I'm

 14 personally excited about this, but I will leave it to

 15 Ms. Lee to speak more.

 16 Okay. Yvonne, take it away.

 17 MS. LEE: The Commission is considering

 18 amending the language to 25 C.F.R. part 514. Under the

 19 current regulation, the Commission announces the

 20 preliminary fee rate on March 1st and the final fee rate

 21 three months later on June 1st.

 22 The proposed regulation would require the

 23 NIGC to set the fee rate only one time per year, to be

 24 announced on November 1st. The proposed changes on the

 25 fee rate publication date will also apply to the
 56

 1 fingerprint processing fee rate. These are the proposed

 2 514.2 changes for fee rate, and these are the proposed

 3 514.16 changes for fingerprint rate.

 4 By setting and announcing the fee rate once

 5 a year, the Commission will be able to, 1, improve the

 6 efficiency of the fee rate analysis and publication

 7 process; 2, coincide the fee rate announcement with the

 8 annual release of the gross gaming revenue and the

 9 completion of the Commission's budget for the upcoming

 10 year; 3, reduce the margin of error for fee calculations

 11 as the rate would only be set once within a fiscal year;

 12 4, mitigate any confusion that may arise from changing the

 13 fee rate twice a year.

 14 In addition, a majority of Tribes have

 15 fiscal year ending either on September 30th or

 16 December 31st. Tribe's submission of audited financial

 17 statements are required 120 days after the end of their

 18 fiscal years; thus, when we first use these financial

 19 statements to set the preliminary fee rates, our analysis

 20 is limited to a fractional portion of the financial audit

 21 submissions and must be reanalyzed again after additional

 22 submissions are received at the end of April. The

 23 proposed changes will allow the analysis to take place

 24 once a year after the Commission has received all annual

 25 audited financial statements. In addition, the fee rate
 57

 1 calculation will more accurately reflect the Commission's

 2 required operation funding which will become available by

 3 September 30th each year.

 4 The NIGC seeks comments on the proposed

 5 changes to the time period these fee rates are published.

 6 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Yvonne.

 7 So any comments or questions about this

 8 proposed change?

 9 MR. SIMERMEYER: I'll just add, as the

 10 Chairman said initially about the opportunity that I think

 11 a simple change like this might be able to kind of promote

 12 transparency, other things that we can do at the

 13 Commission through our processes. As you are thinking

 14 about this in the coming weeks, months here concerning

 15 this one thing that might be helpful, if you have thoughts

 16 about -- traditionally there hasn't necessarily been a big

 17 shift in the fee rates that we've had and how Tribes

 18 perceive that in their planning and their budgeting, their

 19 own process. So if that's something that you have

 20 thoughts on or about, thoughts, that would be helpful from

 21 our perspective, to hear a bit more of that, about how

 22 Tribes perceive the current schedule of our fee process.

 23 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you,

 24 Commissioner.

 25 Looking around the room, we may be able to
 58

 1 conclude this Consultation in record time. I don't want

 2 to knock on wood. But any other questions, comments on

 3 our fees section?

 4 Okay. With that, we will move forward with

 5 a discussion about draft voluntary, voluntary draft

 6 nonbinding, voluntary nonbinding draft, nonbinding

 7 voluntary guidance regarding class III minimum internal

 8 controls. As we engage in this discussion, I would like

 9 to point out that the draft that we have involves

 10 nonbinding voluntary guidance.

 11 And so with that, all joking aside, this is

 12 important. These are important issues, and we understand

 13 the difference in situations of the Tribal Nations

 14 throughout the United States and the inherent difficulty

 15 in approaching, you know, any agency activity, whether

 16 it's regulation or guidance, in a way that recognizes the

 17 fundamental differences between Nations. And so we

 18 recognize that what works for one Nation in Arizona may

 19 not work for another Nation in Oklahoma, may not work for

 20 another Nation in California.

 21 But with that reality in mind, we do seek to

 22 be as helpful as we can be to help support Tribal efforts

 23 to engage in economic development through gaming in a way

 24 that is consistent with Tribal law, consistent with

 25 federal law, and that's the spirit in which we have
 59

 1 approached this nonbinding voluntary class III guidance.

 2 And with that, we are pleased to have

 3 Ms. Heather Corson here from the Office of General

 4 Counsel, here to give us more details. So, Ms. Corson.

 5 MS. CORSON: Hi, guys. I'm Heather Corson.

 6 I'm a member of the Crow Tribe. I'm also associate

 7 general counsel with the NIGC. I've been with the agency

 8 for almost exactly five years and before then practiced

 9 with Tribes in Montana, where I'm from.

 10 So in 2015-2016, the Commission engaged in

 11 Consultation. As a result of that, they decided to issue

 12 nonbinding class III MICS status. We have prepared a

 13 draft of that guidance and are asking for your feedback

 14 before we finalize and publish it.

 15 Although guidance document does not require

 16 formal notice and comment process, the Commission

 17 recognizes the value of Tribal and industry input and

 18 intends to thoroughly consider all comments we receive

 19 from you. The draft 64-page guidance document is

 20 available for review on our website. The NIGC is

 21 fortunate to have many Tribal gaming subject matter

 22 experts working for the agency who are well versed in

 23 gaming operational procedures and risk associated with

 24 them, and they have been working diligently to develop

 25 this draft.
 60

 1 You'll notice the draft follows the

 2 formatting style with its current class II MICS that are

 3 25 C.F.R. part 543. We hope this assists Tribes with MICS

 4 class II and class III facilities to develop a

 5 comprehensive set of controls while still enabling Tribes

 6 themselves to establish standards that best fit their

 7 needs. Exclusively class III areas such as gaming

 8 machines and table games have been updated after extensive

 9 review of other jurisdictions incorporating Tribal,

 10 regulatory, and current industry standards.

 11 Additionally, those controls in the class II

 12 MICS, which again are part 543 of the C.F.R., those

 13 controls that require Tribal regulator analysis approval,

 14 such as variances and supervision controls, are carried

 15 over into the class III guidance.

 16 We would also like to consult with you on

 17 proposed decision to suspend the existing 25 C.F.R.

 18 part 542 regulations. Suspension of the regulations

 19 leaves the existing text in the Code of Federal Regulation

 20 but adds a note that they are not enforceable and refers

 21 the reader to the guidance document. We believe this

 22 solution accomplishes the goals of keeping the language

 23 accessible for those Tribes that need it.

 24 We are ready for your comments or questions.

 25 Any?
 61

 1 MR. NANTY: Could you clarify what you said?

 2 Suspending of the existing 25 542, how are you proposing

 3 that to occur? Is it -- I mean, like --

 4 MS. CORSON: It would be a decision of the

 5 Commission to suspend it. It's -- I don't know how to

 6 best describe it. You guys might be more sophisticated at

 7 explaining how it is.

 8 But it's a decision to suspend it, so it

 9 will say suspended in the Code of Federal Regulation. So

 10 as you know, the CRIT decision said that the Commission

 11 didn't have authority -- they gave me a mike because I am

 12 only talking to you two. I guess the rest can't hear me.

 13 But the Colorado River Indian Tribe's

 14 decision said the Commission didn't have the authority to

 15 develop and enforce these class III MICS, so this is sort

 16 of an acknowledgment of that. They are saying they are

 17 suspended, but we didn't want to take them away because a

 18 lot of places like them still. So they are taking action,

 19 I guess, the Commission would.

 20 Is that your understanding?

 21 MR. SIMERMEYER: Yeah. And the Consultation

 22 occurred earlier in 2015-2016, where we saw input from

 23 Indian Country about a path forward or a process for doing

 24 that.

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that.
 62

 1 MR. STEVENS: Granthum Stevens, Colorado

 2 River Indian Tribes.

 3 When would you look at that suspension for

 4 542? I mean, what's your guys's time frame on looking at

 5 it? If you were to suspend it as a Commission, I mean,

 6 are you looking at it this year?

 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: That's an excellent

 8 question.

 9 I mean, we are going to reserve comment on

 10 actual timelines until we receive our comments. And so at

 11 the end of June, we will look at anything that's submitted

 12 and then propose next steps forward. But I think we are

 13 talking about, you know, kind of parallel action, sort of

 14 issuing the guidance as well as suspension with a signal

 15 within the Federal Register as to where we will keep the

 16 guidance. So it would be whenever we issue the guidance.

 17 MR. STEVENS: Okay. Because I know the

 18 Consultation was in 2015 when it was brought up, when we

 19 were -- when you guys first proposed suspending 542 during

 20 that time frame. And I think in 2015 it was also voiced

 21 that there was a lot of compacts that depended on the

 22 wording of 542 during that time frame. So one of the

 23 comments that I have made was instead of saying what was

 24 that review going to be when that -- how many compacts

 25 were actually going to be affected if we suspend 542, and
 63

 1 it was said that you guys didn't look at that aspect

 2 during that time frame or when you considered it.

 3 Now we are two years out from there. And

 4 has that been looked at, or are we still just looking at

 5 it broader picture, saying if it affects you it affects

 6 you?

 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. Excellent

 8 question.

 9 So I don't know if Heather or anybody on

 10 chief of staff's side wants to weigh in on this. But as

 11 far as actual numbers of affected, kind of depends what we

 12 mean by affected. So depending on the state, some

 13 compacts reference 542. And ones that reference 542, the

 14 idea would -- has always been that the guidance would help

 15 provide that background information. It really depends on

 16 the language of the compact at hand the extent to which

 17 anything will be affected. It's our hope to move forward

 18 with some guidance that's still consistent with our

 19 authority under the Colorado River Indian Tribe decision.

 20 And so whether or not we suspend, the Court

 21 made it pretty clear that we didn't have authority to

 22 promulgate it, those class III MICS, in the first place.

 23 That's why kind of the middle ground forward, you know.

 24 It has been presented by Indian Country as nonbinding

 25 voluntary guidance.
 64

 1 So I don't mean to dance around any

 2 question. As to the number of Nations affected, it

 3 depends on which compact we are talking about. And

 4 Arizona's language is very different than the California

 5 compact.

 6 MR. STEVENS: Well, Oklahoma, I'm pretty

 7 sure if it had to change on the model compact, it clearly

 8 states that for class III you have to follow the 542.

 9 It's clearly written --

 10 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I don't know if you

 11 want to weigh in.

 12 MR. STEVENS: -- in that model compact.

 13 MS. CORSON: Yeah, you are correct. I don't

 14 know the number of Tribes that are affected. I don't know

 15 if Steve does either.

 16 But when the Commission -- the Commission

 17 did the 2015-2016 Consultations, they had several ideas of

 18 how to deal with these MICS. And one of them was

 19 suspension, but one of them was complete withdrawing and

 20 removing from the books. I think this was their best

 21 solution that they could come up with, that acknowledge

 22 that they are not able to promulgate them, but develop as

 23 guidance to update those that are out there because they

 24 are really out of date. If Tribes want to use that

 25 guidance they can, but also still keep the -- the
 65

 1 suspension will say they are suspended in regulation, but

 2 they'd still be there so the compacts that reference them

 3 still have a touchstone to reference. So I think this was

 4 ultimately the -- seemed like the best middle ground.

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Mr. Stevens, do you

 6 want -- I mean, we came all the way to Arizona. We want

 7 to be as thorough as we can. So if you have followup

 8 questions, please. Of course, you can always submit them

 9 in writing, but we are all ears.

 10 MR. STEVENS: Like I said, one of my

 11 questions was, one, I just want to see the trooper behind

 12 it, although I can see the fuller picture. And having

 13 those questions brought up throughout the country, I can

 14 see where you guys's position is to look at the whole pie

 15 versus just a slice of it. So I understand that part.

 16 But if these are nonbinding and you

 17 voluntarily get into this, I do not see why on section --

 18 when it's auditing, section 13(d)(2), the Tribe must

 19 submit two copies of the (indiscernible reading) to the

 20 Commission within 120 days. So I know that 271 makes that

 21 requirement under 25 C.F.R. 271.

 22 So, I mean, if these are nonbinding and just

 23 pure guidance, how do we -- how do you apply this into an

 24 area to where it's going to be a mandated situation? So,

 25 I mean, we are going to add two laws on top of one?
 66

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And excellent question.

 2 I mean, what we are dealing with -- and,

 3 frankly, the approach that we are taking came down to some

 4 of those Consultations, and appreciate yours and CRIT's

 5 previous input on these topics because that helped us try

 6 to strike the appropriate tone in this approach. So we're

 7 not creating two new laws; we are not trying to create any

 8 new law. We are trying to provide updated guidance that's

 9 actually helpful to the communities whose compacts

 10 reference 542 while at the same time avoiding getting sued

 11 again.

 12 MS. CORSON: Can I add?

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I don't mean to joke

 14 about it. But the CRIT decision was very, very helpful in

 15 terms of highlighting the meets and bounds of IGRA when it

 16 comes to class III. And we do see an overall role for the

 17 agency to provide clarity and guidance in Indian gaming

 18 while at the same time we are committed more than ever to

 19 stay in our lane as much as possible. So that's why --

 20 that's why we are trying to approach this as nonbinding,

 21 voluntary guidance.

 22 MS. CORSON: I just want to add that part of

 23 the reason for developing the 64-page guidance was to have

 24 feedback, to have that level of feedback. So we wanted

 25 your thoughts on the suspension and the Commission's
 67

 1 decision or proposal to suspend, but also sort of feedback

 2 that you are going into that's kind of really looking at

 3 the document itself. So thank you. If you have more of

 4 those, that's great. You might have the answer.

 5 MR. STEVENS: I'll reserve it.

 6 MS. CORSON: Send it in.

 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I do want to stress we

 8 very much appreciate the perspective that has been brought

 9 to bear by you, Mr. Stevens, on many of these issues ó so

 10 thank you ó and by so many others in this room as well.

 11 So thank you.

 12 MS. CASTILLION: Sylvia Castillion. I just

 13 wanted to make a note of an observation. There is

 14 regulations specific to progressives in slot machines

 15 portions, but there is no regulation specific to

 16 progressives in Black Jack and Keno and there are

 17 progressives within those areas. And it would be helpful

 18 to have similar regulation within all gaming areas, all

 19 throughout your gaming.

 20 MR. CHAUDHURI: That's an excellent --

 21 excellent point. I am not sure if that was by design, and

 22 you may have just flagged something that we hadn't caught.

 23 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Worth the

 24 price of admission right there. Thank you.

 25 MR. PAGE: That's why you have these.
 68

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Additional comments,

 2 questions? Okay.

 3 So with that, we will -- yes. Yes, sir.

 4 MR. NANTY: Not related to any of these.

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Poor Tim. I wish we

 6 had one of those odometers that could track your miles

 7 today.

 8 MR. RUSS: I need all the help I can get.

 9 MR. NANTY: Aside from the list that you

 10 have for Consultation, I'd like -- I want to thank the

 11 Gaming Commission for coming out here and meeting with

 12 Tribes. And I know the difficulty you get. And once

 13 again, if you reach out to rural Tribes, maybe there will

 14 be more Tribes in the room and we can host up there in

 15 Payson. I don't think any one of you have been up there.

 16 If you are a local Arizona native, then well certainly you

 17 know where that is. It's a beautiful, beautiful part of

 18 Arizona, spectacular ponderosa pines, beautiful area.

 19 What I wanted to address to the Commission

 20 is a recommendation to at least take a look at the Bank

 21 Secrecy Act. That's been -- as you are aware, the

 22 operators are aware, the Tribal regulators are aware that

 23 the U.S. department of treasurer has been trying recently

 24 and more so putting the heat on Tribes' gaming operation

 25 because it is considered a financial institution. Looking
 69

 1 at that, FinCEN will not hesitate and does not hesitate

 2 and will not apologize for any conclusions or findings

 3 they have. And some of these findings are very, very

 4 hefty. I've been monitoring that, I subscribe to them,

 5 and almost certainly within a month's time there's fines

 6 issued.

 7 And I think it would benefit the Commission

 8 to put together some type of a training process. There

 9 are most certainly others out there that do a good job for

 10 training on Title 31 that goes into the anti-money

 11 laundering. More specifically is the (indiscernible), the

 12 recent -- maybe not so much recent, but for an agency

 13 that's been added, that has been there. And for Arizona,

 14 because we live close to borders and some Tribes have

 15 direct highway access to the border where different kinds

 16 of cartels are possible -- create possible risk for gaming

 17 operations. So I think I would just recommend training

 18 and assistance for Title 31 and covering all of it and

 19 perhaps even in conjunction with FinCEN or the Department

 20 of Treasury.

 21 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Excellent point.

 22 Excellent point. So I'm going to throw our training

 23 manager on the spot -- or put our training manager on the

 24 spot.

 25 But that raises a larger issue. You know,
 70

 1 we do have an opportunity, and I think a responsibility,

 2 to coordinate with other federal partners when we perform

 3 our training so that they are up to date, that they are

 4 relevant to the needs of the partner, you know, to --

 5 relevant to the needs of the communities that we are going

 6 into. There are a lot of great examples of how our team

 7 has done that in the past.

 8 This idea about working more closely with

 9 FinCEN, we do work closely with FinCEN on some broader

 10 issues. There's an Indian gaming working group that NIGC

 11 participates in that involves a number of agencies and

 12 there are also regional relationships that our regional

 13 offices have.

 14 But in terms of training, I don't want to

 15 throw Steve under the bus, but I don't know if you have

 16 heard that before? And I'm going to turn it over to

 17 Steve. That's a great idea.

 18 MR. BREWER: Yeah. So we are always

 19 reaching out to our partners to partner with them at our

 20 regional training conferences. Most recently I think 2014

 21 we were doing the Title 31 FinCEN training, bringing in

 22 IRS and FinCEN people to give this training. And we

 23 suspended it for this year because we brought in a couple

 24 of different ones, being active shooter and human

 25 trafficking. But we are always looking at bringing them
 71

 1 back because that is an issue that we hear quite often is

 2 what can you do to help us with Title 31. Because it's

 3 not our regulation, we don't really speak on it per se,

 4 but we do partner with the authors and bring them out to

 5 the training. So, you know, again we have heard this and

 6 it's something that we were planning on bringing back into

 7 our trainings.

 8 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that.

 9 I also want to recognize our Vice Chair's

 10 leadership on human trafficking issues. Again, this is an

 11 example of an area that's not directly under our duties on

 12 the enforcement side of things but falls squarely in line

 13 with our -- the opportunities that are available for us to

 14 facilitate dialogue among other partners, whether they're

 15 federal partners or Tribal partners, and very much wanted

 16 to thank our Vice Chair for spearheading our attention and

 17 focus on human trafficking issues that did involve

 18 bringing in folks from DOJ and various offices to support

 19 our discussions with Indian Country. Thank you.

 20 MS. ISOM-CLAUSE: I don't want to jump in

 21 while you are still on this topic, but we can come back to

 22 human trafficking later if folks in the room here are

 23 interested in talking about that or want some comments.

 24 We certainly don't want one issue to displace another. We

 25 can work with Steve and work with your needs on what
 72

 1 actually is needed each year. So let's not think of it as

 2 one or the other but just all the things that might be

 3 helpful. Please give us kind of feedback what we should

 4 be including. So thank you.

 5 MR. NANTY: Thank you. I know that from a

 6 financial institute, especially a bank will take a look at

 7 it. And each major financial institution, whether it's

 8 wherever you bank has a compliance department, and those

 9 quite often request information on Bank Secrecy or

 10 Title 31, in which if there are deficiencies they don't

 11 want you as a customer. It's something that's very --

 12 that's coming up. If you ask Tribes that have been

 13 visited by FinCEN, these issues will come up. And I would

 14 think that you would take an interest, being that you do

 15 receive our financial audits, and that when you take a

 16 look at those financials and how it's structured and can

 17 see that there might be some medium risk, some high risk,

 18 and some low risk, taking that into consideration there

 19 can be some recommendations to Tribes as to how to

 20 mitigate those and minimize the impact that perhaps if

 21 they are considered by FinCEN can be resolved either

 22 sooner or later.

 23 And it's not a fun game at all. The thing

 24 about it is that when FinCEN comes knocking, all your

 25 information is there. Everything that they look at is
 73

 1 proprietary, yet on the other hand can -- if you are not

 2 following it because of one day or another there were some

 3 errors made, that's a significant finding.

 4 So I just want to suggest that only because

 5 your interests -- in our state in particular, because we

 6 have a revenue sharing portion -- you all know, everyone

 7 in this room knows IGRA was crafted to benefit the

 8 revenues going to the Tribe, exclusively to the Tribe. It

 9 has a sole proprietary interest and the only proprietary

 10 interest. Now that you have a state of the United States

 11 interest in those revenues, it should heighten our

 12 alertness to watch to see if there is any kind of either

 13 steps that were missed, any kind of miscalculation.

 14 I'll just say the department of gaming comes

 15 to each -- Arizona department of gaming comes to each

 16 gaming facility; it's required by them in the compact to

 17 do a quarterly assessment and a quarterly review on the

 18 revenues that they have received from the gaming

 19 operation. They monitor it. They have altogether 26

 20 certified fraud examiners doing this 100 percent of their

 21 time. I would think National Indian Gaming Commission

 22 would take that kind of interest being this is the revenue

 23 and sole economic drive of the Tribe. So I strongly

 24 suggest that some type of heightened up, more training be

 25 put into the FinCEN or even Title 31.
 74

 1 MR. SIMERMEYER: I just want to say thank

 2 you for raising that issue. I think there is definitely

 3 an important role that we can play in terms of helping

 4 with the federal family, developing relationships that we

 5 were talking about earlier. But just as you might know or

 6 others may not know that there's -- FinCEN has some

 7 resources that it often points to in terms of how to

 8 interpret those BSA and AML provisions in this culture of

 9 compliance, they are calling it. There's some key

 10 speeches by their leadership that they laid out, six

 11 different principles about how you develop a risk-based

 12 compliance program. So those are resources that I'll be

 13 sure to apply within our team too and point that out that

 14 they should try to encourage people at the front end to

 15 reach out to understand how they are interpreting that

 16 risk-based compliance, approaching from that respect.

 17 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: But we do hear you loud

 18 and clear. Chat with Steve a little bit more.

 19 You know, this brings up a larger issue, I

 20 think. One of the other tadpole initiatives that we

 21 touched on earlier that I want to kind of address briefly

 22 is addressing gamesmanship on the backs of Tribes. So we

 23 talked about our authorities under IGRA when it comes to

 24 third-party threats to assets and operations. Well, those

 25 authorities are pretty narrowly delineated or set forth in
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 1 IGRA.

 2 But we also recognize, back to your point,

 3 the importance of doing whatever we can to safeguard the

 4 important avenue for economic development, the important

 5 lifeblood for actual lives on the ground that is Indian

 6 gaming. So we see an important role for us to play in

 7 sharing best practices in our trainings and sharing

 8 examples of things that we've seen in the field. So we

 9 don't want to have blinders on in terms of our trainings

 10 being directly flow -- our trainings directly flowing from

 11 our compliance authority. We also see a role for us to

 12 play in terms of our experience working with other Tribal

 13 Nations, working with other regulatory bodies, and sharing

 14 some of those experiences in terms of best practices.

 15 So even if something is not directly in our

 16 lane, I think we are committed across the board to looking

 17 at areas of opportunity to work with other agencies or to

 18 share best practices in our trainings to further support

 19 the overall health of the Indian gaming industry.

 20 That's actually a very subtle but important

 21 point that I want to make. There are two ways to approach

 22 trainings. There's one way where you just look at

 23 compliance authority or enforcement authority from IGRA

 24 and you train based on that. We are committed to

 25 supporting the health of the industry as a whole and to
 76

 1 supporting economic development. Pursuant to our statute,

 2 that's what we have to do. And so we have to look at

 3 things beyond our enforcement authority: things like

 4 FinCEN, things like gamesmanship, things like trafficking.

 5 Those things are things that affect the industry as a

 6 whole, and we are committed to doing whatever we can to

 7 stay in our lane on the enforcement side, on the

 8 compliance side, but also not have blinders on when it

 9 comes to facilitating discussion. And that's a small but

 10 important shift that I think we have been making over the

 11 last several years, and I'm proud to be part of an agency

 12 that is doing that.

 13 Get all that, Steve? Steve has been a

 14 leader in all of this, so kind of joking with Steve. I'm

 15 using his words a lot.

 16 MR. BREWER: I think it's a fascinating

 17 paradigm shift from where we were to where we are going.

 18 Specifically what I'm referring to is it's going from the

 19 how come to the how to. And I had this in my script

 20 originally, and people were like, no, they don't care

 21 about that, that's too training technical.

 22 But getting back to the FinCEN point, you

 23 know, one of the things that we used to do when we did our

 24 ICAs or audits was we did a Title 31 review. We were

 25 actually asked to stop by the IRS, saying it's not your
 77

 1 regulation, you shouldn't be doing this. But we do have

 2 partnerships, and we can put you in contact with points of

 3 contact from those agencies that can give you some

 4 guidance if that's what you -- if that's what I'm getting

 5 that you need.

 6 And I firmly hear what you are saying, and I

 7 totally agree that it's definitely something we are going

 8 to bring back into our trainings, in our RTCs, because our

 9 first day general session is really geared towards the

 10 overall industry health. So we ask for outside federal

 11 partners to come in and give training that touches base on

 12 things that maybe, like Jonodev was saying, is not in the

 13 enforcement realm but is a big picture type look at Indian

 14 gaming, and FinCEN would definitely be one of those.

 15 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that

 16 point.

 17 So that's also a perfect segue. So I think

 18 we finished up the management -- sorry, the class III MICS

 19 voluntary nonbinding guidance discussion and we have

 20 already moved into the kind of catchall area. But if

 21 there are additional catchall comments, questions, now is

 22 a perfect time to go into that.

 23 You know, we'll going once, going twice,

 24 call it before we wrap up, so no fear in not getting any

 25 comments in. We want everybody to feel ample opportunity
 78

 1 to get on the record.

 2 All right. So going once. Going twice.

 3 Okay. Recognizing there's no crime in finishing early, I

 4 want to check with my fellow Commissioners if they have

 5 any final comments as well. But before doing that, thank

 6 you all so much for taking the time to be here today. I

 7 know we all have a lot going on, but Consultation is the

 8 lifeblood of what we do, and very appreciative of your

 9 engagement today.

 10 So I'm going to turn it over to our Vice

 11 Chair for any other comments she may have.

 12 MR. HOOSAVA: Going once, going twice, three

 13 times.

 14 MS. ISOM-CLAUSE: I will be very brief, but

 15 I just want to thank you all for your really thoughtful

 16 comments. At a really granular level we mentioned that

 17 the comments we received on the voluntary nonbinding

 18 class III MICS is really helpful. Feel free to send us

 19 written comments if that's easier. Sometimes the textual

 20 stuff is really hard to do out loud. But thank you. Keep

 21 the comments coming.

 22 MR. SIMERMEYER: I'll just say -- also join

 23 in saying thank you for the comments and the time you put

 24 in and reiterate that this Consultation series should be

 25 an ongoing dialogue. This is where face to face is an
 79

 1 important part of that, that opportunity. I think

 2 probably in order to make sure that this process has a

 3 kind of beginning, a middle, and end to it and that we

 4 keep the constant communication. This isn't just this

 5 sort of one-time thing that happens. So please keep your

 6 comments and thoughts coming so we can make this a

 7 collaborative process.

 8 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much, and

 9 final thanks to the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian

 10 Community for hosting us. Thank you to all the Arizona

 11 Nations for being here as well.

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