1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9 BEFORE THE NATIONAL INDIAN GAMING COMMISSION

10 TRIBAL CONSULTATION

11 July 21, 2011

12 Route 66 Casino Hotel

13 14500 Central Avenue, SW

14 Albuquerque, New Mexico

15

16

17 Members of the Commission:

18 Ms. Steffani A. Cochran, Vice Chair

 Ms. Lael Echo-Hawk, Counsel to the Chairwoman

19 Ms. Jennifer Ward, Office of the General Counsel

 Mr. Lance Vallo, Field Investigator

20

21 Reported by: Karen Lee Clark, RPR, New Mexico CCR 227

 Bean & Associates, Inc.

22 Professional Court Reporting Service

 201 Third Street, NW, Suite 1630

23 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

24 Job No. NJ340550

25 (1470K) KLC

Page 1

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Good morning. If there

2 are people who wish to come sit at the table, please do.

3 I feel like some of you are so far away. But you're

4 welcome to come and join us. If there is a tribal

5 leader that wants to join us, even if you can't stay the

6 entire time, then I certainly understand that.

7 Where is Lance?

8 All right. We are going to go ahead and get

9 started. I'm hoping today we might be able to end a

10 little bit earlier and let you get on with your day,

11 although there are some very important groups that we've

12 got on the agenda today.

13 Is there anyone here today that wasn't here

14 yesterday?

15 Can I ask you to introduce yourself for us,

16 please.

17 MR. HESSE: I'm George Hesse, attorney for

18 White Rock.

19 MS. ORTIZ: Theresa Ortiz, Pueblo of San

20 Felipe.

21 MR. LUCERO: Joseph Lucero, Vice President of

22 the Tribal Council, Isleta.

23 MR. SCHADER: Myron Schader for the Pueblo of

24 Acoma.

25 MR. WEST: Anyone else? I think that's it.

Page 2

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Can you get Lance to come

2 in? He needs to sit with the reporter.

3 Well, welcome to the people who joined us

4 today. And -- and thank you for coming out.

5 I will just introduce myself briefly to you.

6 My name is Steffani Cochran. I'm the Vice Chairwoman of

7 the National Indian Gaming Commission. I am a member of

8 the Chickasaw Nation of Oklahoma, where I was born and

9 raised, and I have spent most of my professional life in

10 the pueblos. Santa Fe is home for me. And I had the

11 privilege and the pleasure of serving the Pueblo of

12 Isleta as their associate judge a few years ago, and the

13 Pueblo of Pojoaque as general counsel just prior to

14 taking my appointment with the NIGC.

15 So I'm a lawyer by trade, but I don't wear

16 that hat right now, which is kind of a relief. I will

17 leave it up to the lawyers.

18 Good morning. So welcome, and thank you for

19 joining us.

20 We do have a court reporter with us. She is

21 going to record everything that's presented here today.

22 As with all of our consultations, the recordings get

23 transcribed and put up on our website so that tribes in

24 other areas of the country have access to see the

25 discussions, and that you have something, also, to -- to

Page 3

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 refer back to, as I know many of you will report back to

2 your gaming commissioners and your leadership. And so

3 that's there if you need it as a tool.

4 I'm going to turn it over to Lael and ask her

5 to do an overview for us this morning. And then, I

6 would like to give an opportunity for any statements

7 that need to be made this morning.

8 MS. ECHO-HAWK: Good morning. Thanks for

9 coming back.

10 This morning, and the rest of today, we're

11 going to cover two groups. We're going to cover group

12 five and -- and group -- and group three. So this

13 morning we're going to start off with group five.

14 Now, group five covers the self-regulation of

15 Class II gaming regulations. We always say

16 "self-regulation regulation," but then I feel like I

17 have a stutter or something. So proprietary interest, a

18 potential -- the possibility for regulation, or a

19 policy, how do we address the sole proprietary interest

20 concerns that tribes have? And, then, finally, then

21 we'll go to internal controls for Class III gaming

22 again. We did some discussion on this yesterday and

23 we'll continue that discussion this morning.

24 So the Notice of Inquiry that we put out in

25 November asked tribes whether or not the Commission

Page 4

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 should review the process for obtaining a Class II

2 self-regulation cert -- for obtaining a Class II

3 certification, self-regulation certification.

4 We heard a lot of comments. We heard that the

5 administrative burden of completing the process

6 outweighed the benefits that were obtained. We know

7 today that only two tribes have obtained the self-reg

8 certification. The submission requirements, commenters

9 said, were duplicative and -- and burdensome,

10 particularly, the annual -- the annual reporting

11 requirements undermined the purpose of the

12 certification. And we also heard that wherever --

13 however we address it, we need to make sure that the

14 high standards are maintained.

15 We heard the benefits and recognition for

16 self-regulating tribes should be greater, but that

17 self-regulation is a hallmark of tribal sovereignty, and

18 that we need to address that so that more tribes are

19 able to take advantage of this certification.

20 So as we begin looking at it, we -- we've sort

21 of come up with some questions, and that is -- some of

22 them are, you know, "How many tribes are interested in

23 pursuing self-regulation?" I think there is -- you

24 know, I -- we've heard tribes say over and over again

25 that they would like to be self-regulated, however,

Page 5

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 self-regulation is for Class II gaming activities only.

2 And so we're interested in hearing from tribes that have

3 Class II gaming facilities. We're also interested in

4 tribes that have a hybrid.

5 I know a number of -- many tribes have some

6 Class II machines on the floor. They've got three

7 machines on one floor, there's bingo operations, and

8 those types of activities that are Class II. And if

9 you'd like to pursue self-regulation for those

10 activities, then we would like to know what that

11 universe looks like.

12 We would also like your ideas on what

13 additional responsibility or incentive could be

14 available to self-regulating tribes, and whether or not

15 the self-regulation -- the annual reporting requirements

16 should be amended.

17 The submission requirements for obtaining

18 self-certification -- self-regulation certification

19 are -- are pretty onerous. And if you think about it in

20 context, these regulations were drafted in 1998, which

21 was before the MICS were put in place. It was before

22 tribes had really begun to have -- expand their gaming

23 operations. And so it appears to us that -- that there

24 was things included in the -- in the petition process

25 that, perhaps, might be already accomplished through

Page 6

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 other means, such as ordinance submission, through the

2 development of the NIGC MICS.

3 But the petition requirements include all

4 of -- the submittal of all of this information, history

5 of gaming operations, closures, composition and

6 authority of the regulatory bodies, composition of

7 gaming operation, use of net gaming revenues, accounting

8 systems for the government, as well as for the gaming

9 operation, internal controls, recordkeeping system, it's

10 issuance of gaming licenses, gaming relations. There's

11 a plethora of -- of materials requested.

12 This -- the next part, 518.4, then, sets out

13 some criteria that tribes can -- that tell how tribes

14 might satisfy the criteria set forth to -- in order to

15 receive the certificate of self-regulation. It includes

16 the statutory requirement that the NIGC find that the

17 tribe has conducted gaming with an effective and honest

18 accounting of all revenues, has a reputation for the

19 safe, fair, and honest operation, if the operation is on

20 a fiscal -- is fiscally and economically sound, and that

21 there has been no criminal or dishonest activity.

22 Additionally, the NIGC has to find that the

23 tribe has adequate systems for accounting of all

24 revenues; that it investigates, licenses, and monitors

25 gaming employees; and that there is investigation

Page 7

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 enforcement and prosecution of violations for -- of the

2 gaming ordinance and regulations. It also has -- the

3 NIGC -- currently in regs, it also has to find that the

4 gaming activity has been conducted in compliance with

5 IGRA, NIGC regulations, and the tribe's gaming

6 ordinances and regulations.

7 Then, the indicator of -- for this criteria --

8 this is all in the reg -- the indicators, it looks like

9 here, include adoption and implementation of the MICS

10 that are at least as stringent as the NIGC MICS,

11 evidence that the suitability requirements for gaming

12 employees are the same as -- or the same or -- or more

13 stringent for -- as for primary management officials or

14 key employees; that there's a permanent and stable

15 funding for the tribal regulatory body; there's a

16 conflict-of-interest policy for the regulators, and that

17 the -- evidence that the operation is -- is financially

18 stable.

19 Additionally, there has to be a tribal

20 regulatory body that monitors gaming for compliance,

21 promulgates regulations, monitors the accounting system,

22 performs audits, inspects the premises, that there's an

23 adequate system that investigates the licensing and

24 monitoring of employees, standards -- clear standards

25 for the vendor licenses, adequate systems for

Page 8

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 investigation and enforcement.

2 So this regulation is -- is quite long.

3 There's lists of things that need to be submitted. And

4 as we've looked at it, and we've looked at sort of

5 the -- you know, the two tribes that have actually

6 received the certification, it seems to us that this

7 regulation is not utilized as effectively as it could,

8 or that this process is not utilized as effectively as

9 it could. And if there are changes that we can make in

10 the regulation to streamline the process, to remove some

11 of the duplication and redundancy, that makes this more

12 accessible to tribes that are interested, then we'd like

13 to hear your thoughts on how we can do that.

14 The next issue in this particular group of

15 regulations is the sole proprietary interest. The

16 Notice of Inquiry asked whether or not the Commission

17 should consider a regulation defining "sole proprietary

18 interest" and outlining or providing a process by which

19 the tribe can request a review by the NIGC.

20 We've received many, many comments that --

21 they included that the Commission should provide --

22 should set a regulation that provides for review only at

23 the request of tribes; that the percentages contained in

24 IGRA, the 60/40, 70/30 percentages, are clear, and

25 that -- that those are -- that those should be the

Page 9

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 definitions that define what "sole proprietary interest"

2 is. If "sole proprietary interest" is defined, then we

3 should also consider defining "primary beneficiary."

4 We also heard that a clear definition of "sole

5 proprietary interest" might provide stability and access

6 to financing for tribes. On the other hand, we heard

7 that the definition might limit tribal access to

8 capital, and, then, finally, that the determination of

9 what sole proprietary interest is should be left to the

10 courts.

11 While we don't have a slide up, we had it up

12 earlier, and I had it up yesterday, about the Class III

13 MICS, that's the other issue that we're thinking about

14 and talking about. I think we'll address that in more

15 detail this afternoon as we discuss MICS generally.

16 But to carry on that conversation, to -- to

17 bring that conversation forward from yesterday, one of

18 the issues has been, and continues to be, "What will --

19 what should the Commission do about Class III MICS?" We

20 had some discussion on that yesterday. We'll have more

21 discussion on that today.

22 But that's the overview of the group five

23 regulations and what we'll spend this morning talking

24 about.

25 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you, Lael.

Page 10

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 Before -- I see that we've had some other

2 people join us initially.

3 Can I ask you to identify yourselves, please,

4 for the court reporter.

5 MR. TORINO: Good morning. My name Kino

6 Torino. I'm with the White Mountain Apache Tribe.

7 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you.

8 MR. HERRERA: Good morning again. Isaac

9 Herrera, representing the Tesuque Pueblo.

10 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you.

11 GOVERNOR ROMERO: Good morning. Former

12 Governor Ramos Romero, Pueblo of Tesuque.

13 MR. HINTON: Good morning. Timothy Hinton,

14 Vice Chairman of the White Mountain Apache Tribe.

15 MR. BEACH: Good morning, again. My name is

16 Arnold Beach, White Mountain Apache Tribe, Tribal

17 Council.

18 MR. SIOW: Good morning. Virgil Siow, Pueblo

19 of Laguna, tribal council member.

20 MR. CHIWIWI: Good morning. Antonio Chiwiwi,

21 Second Lieutenant Governor for Isleta.

22 GOVERNOR GARCIA: David Garcia, First

23 Lieutenant Governor, Pueblo of Acoma.

24 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Governors and councilmen,

25 thank you again for joining us.

Page 11

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 And before we get into the substantive

2 discussion, I wanted to give an opportunity, because I

3 know there's a lot of other things going on in this

4 state right now that is requiring time constraints on

5 leadership. So if any of you have a statement you want

6 to offer, if you have to leave early, I want to give you

7 that opportunity now, if any of you -- if you want, or

8 any of your staff, to talk, to make a statement?

9 Thank you. Thank you, again, for joining us.

10 I'm going to start with part 518, group five.

11 And this is the self-regulation of Class II gaming. And

12 I don't know how familiar some of you may be with this

13 particular regulation. I know that it's more sought

14 after in other areas of the country.

15 But this particular regulation does allow for

16 tribes to self-regulate in the area of Class II. And

17 the benefit, as Lael mentioned, is that there is a

18 reduction of the fee. And it's -- they're not assessed

19 right now. Tribes that are self-regulated are not

20 accessed a fee in excess of one quarter of one percent

21 of gross gaming revenue. And for the calendar year of

22 2011, of this calendar year, tribes that have obtained

23 the certificate will be charged a fee that is one half

24 of what is assessed to tribes that have not obtained a

25 certificate. So that is the monetary benefit that flows

Page 12

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 from self-regulation.

2 The -- the other benefits that flow, again, as

3 Lael mentioned, has to do with the reduction in

4 oversight activity that occurs from the NIGC. And that

5 includes monitoring of Class II gaming on a continuing

6 basis, inspections and examination of all premises in

7 which Class II gaming is being conducted, conducting

8 background investigations, demanding access to and

9 inspection, examination, and photocopying and auditing

10 of all papers, books, and records respecting gross

11 gaming revenue, Class II gaming conducted on Indian

12 land. So those things are no longer a part of the

13 routine interaction between the tribes and the Agency.

14 The two tribes that are self-regulating, one

15 of them I have had an opportunity to spend quite a bit

16 of time with, and that is the Confederated Tribes of

17 Grand Ronde up in Oregon. The other one is the nominee

18 who I have not had an opportunity to spend as much time

19 with.

20 But their general consensus is their -- right

21 now, the way the regulation is written is the -- the

22 burden to obtain the certificate is not necessarily

23 outweighed by the benefits that flow from it. It's

24 really for them, kind of a badge of honor kind of thing.

25 And they -- they agreed that the process to get the

Page 13

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 initial certification is intrusive. So we share that

2 concern, obviously, and wanted to open up this

3 particular regulation for comment to see if there isn't

4 a way that we can more or better utilize -- I should

5 say, open it up to more tribes to take advantage of

6 because it is something that IGRA does directly provide

7 for and should be of benefit to the tribes.

8 So I'll leave it to you all to open it up for

9 conversation, and we'll go from there.

10 Mr. Green, I know you're interested in

11 something in this.

12 MR. GREEN: Again, I -- I apologize for taking

13 New Mexico's time. I know many of y'all are wanting to

14 be involved in Class II gaming.

15 But in Oklahoma, even though we have a

16 compact, most of our tribes still have between 50 and

17 30 percent of their games Class II gaming. And as our

18 compact will approach its expiration date, if the State

19 of Oklahoma does not negotiate, I expect those numbers

20 to start going up.

21 The fact that you've only had two tribes in

22 25 years go through this self-regulation process should

23 tell you that something's wrong, is wrong at the NIGC

24 regulatory level.

25 Now, I have been participating, since the days

Page 14

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 of Tony Hope, who was the NIGC chairman, and I have been

2 trying to get them to consider -- back then, they

3 wouldn't even take applications -- to consider

4 self-regulation. And, again, their argument was, "We

5 haven't been in business long enough to know how to make

6 the determination." Well, we've all been in business

7 now long enough to know how to make the determination.

8 With as many tribes, as large as some of them are around

9 the nation, that participate in Class II gaming, the

10 self-regulation piece should be something that is easy

11 for us to do.

12 Now, it should have a very lengthy history

13 requirement, so we do fill up your file with why it is

14 justified, but it needs requirements that, once we give

15 you that information, we don't ever have to give it to

16 you again. We've got your file full, so if you get

17 challenged over your decision at some point, it's well

18 justified.

19 And it would appear to me the focus after that

20 should not be on regulatory reporting. The current

21 regulation puts entirely too much -- too many

22 requirements on the tribe, once you get certified, to

23 continue reporting to the NIGC. The regulations then

24 should focus on if the NIGC wants to question the

25 self-regulation, there is a key request. Number one is

Page 15

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 you make general inquiries about topics, and they're --

2 in which they're government-to-government

3 communications, and then, after that, you can set a

4 series of hearings to inquire and see if you are still

5 meeting the requirements.

6 There has been a lot of discussion about how

7 to address this. I really think this is a topic -- and

8 as bad as I hate the NIGC tribal task force concept, I

9 think this is one of those things that, if you selected

10 a large number of Class II tribes' gaming commissioners

11 that have been doing a good job to participate with you,

12 and/or gaming management -- and there are -- I mean

13 there's Lytton in California, and there's the Poarch

14 Creek in Alabama, and there's several in Oklahoma -- I'm

15 confident you could get a group of folks that would be

16 willing to sit down with NIGC representatives who would

17 understand that you have to have a good file background

18 because this is an issue that a third party might

19 challenge you in federal court.

20 And for those of you that don't understand, in

21 the gaming world, the attorneys live in fear, not of

22 challenges occurring against the tribe, because we have

23 sovereign immunity, but of challenging the federal

24 agency's decision and leaving us out of the discussion.

25 And so if we don't fill their file full of

Page 16

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 justification, they don't have anything to defend

2 themselves with.

3 So I -- I fully understand that the initial

4 application needs to be full of information. But I

5 really think the way to approach this is with a joint

6 group to revamp it that -- that is focussed on this.

7 And I -- I think even a three- to five-day conference

8 that you schedule with these folks, you might come out

9 at the end of that time with a product that everyone can

10 be proud of.

11 Thank you.

12 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you, Jess.

13 Did -- did you have any thoughts, or does

14 anyone have thoughts, on what might make it more

15 beneficial? What might make the benefit outweigh?

16 Because the initial -- I -- I -- as I understand your

17 comments, the initial application to achieve the

18 certification may still require some work. And -- and

19 we -- I know we've talked internally about what's

20 currently in the regulation. In some areas it's

21 duplicated in other areas. We've already asked for this

22 information. It's already accounted for in other ways,

23 so the duplicity we want to take out.

24 So given that there's still a -- perhaps a

25 need for the initial burden, to me, can we make it more

Page 17

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 beneficial? Do you have ideas, or does anyone have

2 ideas, on how to make it more beneficial?

3 MR. GREEN: I don't see the initial -- Jess

4 Green again.

5 I don't see most of your initial requirements

6 that you answer questions like those -- I don't see

7 those as being overwhelming because you're going to get

8 to cut your fee. I mean that will justify the expense

9 you use. It is imperative on us that we give you that

10 initial justification that you do meet the criteria.

11 And I don't think it will be a problem, at all, for our

12 gaming commissioner to certify that, "We meet criteria

13 number one. Here are the 25 pages to prove it. We meet

14 criteria number two. Here are the 25 pages that prove

15 it. We meet criteria number three. Here are the 25

16 pages to prove it." And I think you create a list, and

17 I -- I think the tribe can do that.

18 Once you meet the self-regulation requirement,

19 there should be virtually no communication required with

20 the NIGC. The current rules require -- give the NIGC a

21 lot of input, and still require a lot of communication.

22 That's the reason you don't have many people that have

23 participated. It's because of that.

24 You know, from the very beginning, that

25 reduction in fee and the concept of self-regulation has

Page 18

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 always been in the Act. It was there when we passed it

2 to begin with. There were several of us that really

3 insisted that, once we know what we're doing, we don't

4 need near as much federal -- federal oversight. And

5 Congress agreed. And then, the regulations have been

6 written so that, even after we meet the criteria, we

7 still have to make all the reports. That's the problem,

8 that the secondary part of this -- of this regulation

9 where tribes still have the burden to communicate with

10 the NIGC. That's the reason you do not have tribes

11 meeting the criteria because, as you point out, it is a

12 big plus for tribes to be able to say, "We are

13 self-regulating. We know how to do this ourselves, and

14 they've certified that we were."

15 That is also why I said there needs to be a

16 fairly complex challenge. If you're having difficulty,

17 or you believe there are some difficulties, there should

18 be government-to-government communication, and then

19 there should be hearings before there is a recitation

20 because those issues need to be addressed especially,

21 not in the general annual reporting requirements to the

22 NIGC.

23 I -- I support the strong initial requirements

24 because it allows us to have your file full of the

25 information that needs to be there for you to defend

Page 19

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 yourself both in Congress and in the federal court.

2 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you, Jess.

3 Are there other comments?

4 MR. CHIWIWI: In the scenario of if we're not

5 providing information, being self-regulated to the NIGC,

6 the challenge was made, then who would be solely

7 responsible? What -- what part would the NIGC have at

8 that point?

9 MR. GREEN: The challenge by the NIGC would be

10 to our continuing self-regulation. There is one tribe

11 that has not been mentioned, and this is the Mississippi

12 Choctaw, that have a self-regulation certificate issued

13 by Congress. They were, last week, raided by 60 FBI

14 agents that came to get two servers. Now, why it took

15 60 days to get two servers out of a gaming facility,

16 only a -- only a federal agency would understand that

17 law, and one US Marshal.

18 Well, and we've all had that experience at one

19 time or another where there was federal overkill on

20 something. But I would think that kind of circumstance

21 happening to a self-regulated tribe would cause

22 government-to-government communication with the NIGC.

23 And then, if they weren't satisfied with the resolution

24 of that inquiry, that there may be hearings about

25 self-regulation and whether you were doing it properly.

Page 20

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 You know, if, in fact, they show that you were

2 taking wagers in a manner, on your off-track betting,

3 that indicated organized crime had infiltrated your

4 location -- again, two, three years ago, maybe four,

5 they were -- they closed a -- a gaming facility in

6 Oklahoma for that. Certainly, that's going to -- that's

7 going to take your self-regulation from you. That's the

8 concept I was saying where you would have them

9 communicating with you, is if they had some kind of

10 indication.

11 There are regular reports, of course, that

12 would still be sent in so they could continue to keep

13 their counts and report accurately to Congress. They

14 would probably still get your annuals -- annual audit to

15 drop in their file so they could say that you were still

16 meeting your annual audit requirements. Again, that's

17 not terribly burdensome just to send them a copy.

18 But you wouldn't have the -- the 2706(b)(1)

19 through (4) requirements that they drop by and inspect

20 and copy every darn thing in your facility any time, any

21 day they wanted, that they just basically demand you

22 stand and deliver copies of any contract they want to

23 scrutinize. That's really important to a lot of tribes.

24 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Well, and I want to

25 reiterate, because I know that there's not a heavy

Page 21

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 influence of Class II activity in this area. This would

2 only apply to the Class II activities. So I know that

3 what Jess has described is some other Class III, but I

4 just want to reiterate this is Class II.

5 I do know, however, that in this area of the

6 country there is some discussion about Class II and the

7 benefits that could be put from Class II to the tribes.

8 And so I do believe this is a regulation that should

9 capture your attention because it could be something

10 that has more of an impact or import to you at a date in

11 the future.

12 I just want to share one other thought that I

13 had, or was given in Washington. There was a suggestion

14 at that time that we consider an exemption from some of

15 the auditing requirements, which have been tossed out in

16 the public discussions, so that was something that came

17 out, something that may be worthy of discussion, or

18 additional discussion.

19 Is there any other comments, thoughts,

20 concerns?

21 Lael just reminded me of a discussion that

22 we've also had internally about, right now, the

23 regulation requires the tribes to submit an annual

24 report. And Jess mentioned the annual report. One of

25 ideas that we've floated around for discussion has to do

Page 22

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 with whether or not we should require the submission of

2 the annual audit and just a complete list of the resumes

3 and have that suffice in -- in lieu of the annual report

4 because the audit, itself, gives us almost everything

5 that's in the existing requirements. So that was one of

6 the things that -- that we had to try to, again,

7 streamline what we're asking for, not be duplicative.

8 So does anybody have thoughts or -- I just

9 toss it out for your consideration, or to think about as

10 you look at this regulation and the way it is currently

11 set up, and where we can get it reduced to, not only a

12 more manageable level, but a more responsive level, to

13 get at what we need to have and not go above and beyond.

14 MR. CHIWIWI: On that incentives for

15 self-regulating tribes, does that impact the fees?

16 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Yeah. It is would impact

17 the Class II. There is already -- the current incentive

18 reduces the fee amount. And, as I said, for this year

19 it would be about half of -- one half of what is

20 assessed to tribes that haven't obtained it. So it's --

21 right now, it is a fee not to exceed one quarter of one

22 percent of gross gaming revenues, Class II, right?

23 So if your facility doesn't engage in a lot of

24 Class II, that may not be your primary incentive today.

25 There may be other incentives, but financially, perhaps

Page 23

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 not.

2 MS. ECHO-HAWK: One of the issues that we are

3 really struggling with at the Commission, and we'd

4 really like to hear comments on, is how do you -- for

5 many tribes, I think we -- we did a quick survey.

6 There's between 30 and 35 stand-alone Class II

7 facilities in the country. And then, the other is sort

8 of this hybrid where you've got Class II machines on the

9 floor, and they're -- they're mixed up with your Class

10 III machines.

11 In that instance, you still -- if you have a

12 Class III operation that has Class III gaming activities

13 going on, as well as the Class II, in that instance, you

14 still have to comply with the regulatory requirements in

15 your compact. So the burden in that instance is not --

16 we can't lessen it because you still have this compact

17 obligation.

18 So it's been difficult for us to figure out

19 how can we structure this so that there's actually

20 benefit derived because we still have the same

21 enforcement authorities. We still have this 2706(b)(1)

22 through (4) authority over those when it comes to that,

23 those other activities. How do we -- how is there --

24 how can we create a tangible benefit for tribes who,

25 beyond just the gold star and the piece of paper that

Page 24

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 Commissioner Little signs off and says you have a

2 certificate? How can we make this be a regulation

3 that's utilized effectively and something that garners

4 an actual benefit for tribes and -- and we are able to

5 lessen the burden, somehow, of the reporting?

6 I know that this is new. It's something to

7 think about. I'd certainly advise you to have your

8 counsel take a look at the regulation, look at the list

9 of information that's contained in there because it is

10 old. There's -- there's a number of things that are --

11 that we now have MICS. MICS are referenced in the

12 petition.

13 You know, one of the things that kind of

14 alarmed us all was that, in submitting a petition, the

15 tribe has to post, give public notice to their local

16 community that they're considering being -- considering,

17 or they've applied or put forward a petition for

18 self-certification.

19 Now, I know the tribe that I represented

20 previous to coming to the Commission would certainly

21 never want to put -- put that out into the public

22 because of the -- some of the -- you know, the -- the

23 bad kind of concerns the community might come, then,

24 forward with if there is a seat at the table for those

25 non- -- those -- those other community groups to come

Page 25

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 and -- and sue or come and -- and talk with the federal

2 agency about the certification process.

3 I don't know why that particular provision was

4 included in there, but it is something that we're

5 talking about. And I don't know if that concerns you.

6 We would like to hear about it. But I would certainly

7 advise you to talk to your counsel and have them look at

8 it and send us your comments because we really are kind

9 of struggling internally with, "How can we make this

10 better?"

11 If we could hear from Mr. Green, please, if

12 you have any issues?

13 Oh, thank you.

14 MR. GREEN: I've turned it off.

15 We keep talking about financial, you know,

16 that it is on the financial incentive. Let me point out

17 that when IGRA was an issue, then when you got the

18 self-regulation, the reduction in fees was across the

19 board for everything. There were no fees for Class III

20 gaming initially. There was an amendment. And the

21 reason for that was because there were so many

22 management contracts submitted that it was overwhelming

23 the budget. And they were submitted for Class III

24 gaming facilities. And the Class III gaming facilities

25 helped pass that amendment through Congress.

Page 26

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 There was nothing intended, and certainly no

2 tribal consensus that you were self-regulation that that

3 ought to increase that self-regulation fee. Once you

4 were determined to be self-regulating, that reduction

5 was initially across the board; in other words, all the

6 way across for all the fees. And I would encourage you

7 to do that again. That would certainly help give the

8 financial incentive that you need.

9 And I differ with you that 2706(b)(1) through

10 (4) continues for Class III. 2706(b)(1) through (4)

11 pertains only to Class II gaming. The ability to make

12 regulations pertains only to Class II gaming. Again, I

13 know there are some -- some differences in legal

14 opinions here. But those differences have been

15 maintained for many years and are actually shared with

16 the initial NIGC chairman and were reiterated in the

17 CRIT decision, which pointed out that Tony Hope, had

18 some direct statements that were very pointed about

19 where the authority of the NIGC lay.

20 Thank you.

21 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you, Jess.

22 Do we have additional comments?

23 The next area or topic in this group has to do

24 with sole proprietary interest. Lael pointed out that

25 the NOI asked whether the Commission should consider a

Page 27

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 regulation defining "sole proprietary interests" and

2 provide a process whereby tribes may request review.

3 This is -- had quite a bit of feedback, and so

4 I would like to open it up for discussion and hear from

5 you.

6 Most of you may be aware that IGRA doesn't

7 define this term. The definitions have really kind of

8 come from opinions and language in NOVs to try to give

9 definition to it. I don't know if there's someone here

10 that wants to offer up their experience in that area?

11 We've heard different levels of feedback from

12 the tribes. Some say, you know, "The statute is clear.

13 Don't tinker with it." Some have also suggested that

14 this is something that should be left to the courts to

15 decide. Others have said, "It is very much needed."

16 This is something that they could use to help them in

17 their negotiations with management companies or entities

18 and in their financing agreements. Others have said the

19 exact reverse, that it could have a chilling effect on

20 the financial market.

21 So there's this clear rainbow of concern out

22 there and differing opinions on this. And it's one of

23 the reasons why we haven't proposed something, but

24 wanted to continue the dialogue throughout our

25 consultations to -- to get more feedback to see what

Page 28

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 you -- what you think about this.

2 Good morning, Mr. Van Norman.

3 MR. VAN NORMAN: Good morning.

4 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: It's nice to see you.

5 Here are -- I know you just came in. Would

6 you identify yourself for the court record -- court

7 reporter? Excuse me.

8 MR. VAN NORMAN: Oh, sure.

9 Hi. Mark Van Norman, Apache Gaming

10 Association.

11 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Is there anyone else that

12 has come in today that wasn't here yesterday that would

13 like to introduce yourself?

14 Good morning.

15 MR. EBONA: Good morning. My name is Andy

16 Ebona, Tlingit, from Alaska.

17 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Good morning. You've

18 traveled a long way. If the Commission's -- oh. I'm

19 sorry. Good morning.

20 MS. BECENTI: No problem. Good morning. My

21 name is Latonia Becenti, and I'm an attorney with the

22 Navajo Nation.

23 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Some of the factors that

24 have come out have been quite voluminous in this area.

25 Some of the things that have been looked up included a

Page 29

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 percentage share of gaming revenues by a third party, a

2 high percentage or amount of net or gross revenue by a

3 third party, the risk involved, and the business

4 transaction, which is a very subjective criteria, the

5 terms of the contract, the degree of control by the

6 third party over the gaming activity of the tribe, the

7 availability of other sources of financing. These are

8 things that have come up in looking at this term and the

9 way that the Agency has interpreted it.

10 This is something we can, perhaps, see in a

11 regulation format. It has been suggested maybe a

12 bulletin would be more helpful, just to put the comments

13 together, summarize them, and put them out in a manner

14 that the tribes can have reference to as they engage in

15 their negotiations with various entities.

16 MS. ECHO-HAWK: We've -- internally we've,

17 again, looked at this issue because we -- we get --

18 often we get requests from tribes to take a look at the

19 cumulative effect of a couple agreements, several

20 agreements. And -- and the Agency, we've done -- we've

21 gone back through history and looked at a number of

22 opinions issued. And we've issued over -- and this was

23 kind of surprising to all of us, even the staff that had

24 been at the NIGC for a while. We've issued over 90

25 advisory opinions or opinions on sole proprietary

Page 30

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 interests, including in management contract agreements,

2 approvals, disapprovals. So there is sort of a

3 significant body of interpretation from the Commission,

4 at least, on the -- from the -- from the Office of the

5 General Counsel, which has been an issue, as well.

6 We've issued two, now three, NOVs. There was

7 a notice of violation issued last week for Fond du Lac

8 and the City of Duluth agreements, which is on the

9 website, if you're interested in looking at the factors

10 that we considered while -- while -- while the -- the

11 Chairwoman considered while issuing that notice of

12 violation.

13 But we've gotten concerns across the board

14 about what the "sole proprietary interest" means. Does

15 it include revenue shares? Does it include exclusivity

16 agreements? Does it include agreements that tribes have

17 with the state and local governments? Does it only

18 include agreements relating to the gaming operation,

19 such as development agreements, management agreements,

20 facility agreements, consulting agreements, lease

21 agreements?

22 We see tribes come to us, and they say, you

23 know, after we've -- five years down the road,

24 "We've taken a look at the effect of all of these

25 agreements, and it means that we received 10 percent of

Page 31

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 net. We make no profit, even though our casino is doing

2 very, very well. Can you help us please?" And, you

3 know, sometimes that's the other issue. Sometimes the

4 Agency said, "Sure. We'll take a look at your

5 documents." Other times, it didn't. And there's not

6 been any certainty given to tribes in the form of a

7 regulation or a policy or guidance how you can get these

8 documents reviewed from the Agency.

9 One of the goals of the Commission has been to

10 create this consistency and transparency in processes.

11 And so that's one of the things that we're looking at.

12 We've heard a number of tribes say that this

13 sole proprietary interest is too fact specific. And as

14 we go back through the documents that we have and the

15 reviews that we've done, we can certainly see that it is

16 very -- the facts all vary, and the situations are all

17 different. And -- and we are wondering, can we address

18 all of those issues with a -- I hate to say it -- a

19 bright-line, a regulation that defines "sole proprietary

20 interest" in -- in a rule, or is it -- is it a matter of

21 us taking a look at the process by which tribes get

22 submitted so there is consistency and response from the

23 Agency, and then, if the Agency does make a decision,

24 and there is final Agency action so that their -- so

25 that a tribe can move forward. That's the other

Page 32

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 concern.

2 We've heard that there's been no opportunity

3 for a court to weigh in on what a sole propriety

4 interest is. And is it appropriate for the Agency to

5 decide and then let the courts weigh in?

6 We've heard the -- sort of just from one side

7 to the other and everything in between on -- on this

8 issue, and we're trying to figure out a direction to

9 move forward that -- that clarifies processes and

10 identifies, you know, with some specificity what this --

11 what the "sole proprietary interest" means.

12 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: To give you a little bit

13 of insight, too, into what the Agency looks -- or is

14 faced with in this area, we'd ask the lawyers to give us

15 some feedback on the volume. And Lael said -- as you

16 see, issued 16 letters in the first month -- the first

17 six months of 2011. So the first time this year we had

18 16 that were issued that specifically we were asked to

19 examine documents for a violation of the sole

20 proprietary interest requirement. In 2010, there was a

21 total of 16 issued. So we've had a great number. And

22 that's probably due to some litigation that's occurred

23 since then and decisions that have come down. In 2009

24 there were only four. In 2008 there were only two

25 letters.

Page 33

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 So it is -- it is an activity that occurs, and

2 a request that comes into our office quite frequently

3 necessitating, as Lael pointed out, the need for us to

4 be consistent in our response to the tribes.

5 MR. GREEN: IGRA has a hole in it. Other

6 gaming operations that do not meet their projections can

7 file a Chapter 11 bankruptcy -- Donald Trump has done

8 it -- and have their debt written down. We -- we don't

9 have that capability. Without a lot of regs, with just

10 the statute, the sole proprietary interest remains one

11 of those mechanisms we have to get our debt written

12 down.

13 When you make an examination of sole

14 proprietary interest, you make it at a fixed point in

15 time. It is very possible, with today's current

16 economic environment, and, indeed, with the coming of

17 the Internet, which may take 20 to 30 percent away from

18 our facilities, or may take nothing. Again, the numbers

19 are all over the place about what could happen when --

20 when this takes over. And it may train the people. We

21 may get all of them shut. I mean we really do not

22 understand what's going to happen to our facilities.

23 But the bottom line is, if there is an

24 economic downturn that affects our facilities, we could

25 find ourselves in a position that the tribe is making no

Page 34

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 money, that all it is doing is paying interest, period;

2 that there is no money coming to the tribe; that it's

3 just paying interest on its existing debt.

4 You know, there ought to be a point at some

5 point in time that that violates the sole proprietary

6 interest. If you make a number of fixed rules and

7 regulations, if you make final agency decisions that are

8 not -- that do not give caveats for the situation may

9 change based on the profitability of the location, you

10 put tribes in a position that they may have no financial

11 interest in the casino operation. And there are places

12 that have those issues. You know, fortunately, there

13 aren't many.

14 But as the economy turns up and turns down, as

15 the states try to whittle more money out of our pockets,

16 we're -- we're going to be continually faced with, "Can

17 we make money in these economic environments?" The sole

18 proprietary interest is a means for us to address a

19 situation when we have too much debt. And in every

20 other situation, the lenders go into Chapter 11. And

21 they all -- and everybody writes down their debt in the

22 same percentage, and the operation continues to operate.

23 The issue is not that it's not financially prudent, it's

24 that with this much debt, it can't be financially

25 prudent. If everybody takes 80 cents on the dollar, we

Page 35

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 all get paid back something, and -- or we extend the

2 debt for a longer period of time. There are compromise

3 issues that are made generally.

4 And this mechanism is clearly, written as it

5 is, one of those mechanisms that lets us address our

6 debt.

7 I would also point out that I think you have

8 the right concept, that you have a number of legal

9 opinions that you've written over time, though not

10 binding, helps shape the NIGC's position. And we are

11 now having a number of court cases that make some or --

12 or -- or some slight or other reference to the tribe's

13 proprietary interest when you're dealing with an

14 accumulation of agreements.

15 And, again, whether the tribe has a sole

16 proprietary interest today, and whether it has a sole

17 propriety interest two years from now, may depend on how

18 many 10-percent contracts it signs off on. In other

19 words, the accumulation of the tribe's obligation over

20 time can deprive it of its sole proprietary interest, as

21 well. And it may not be with any one vendor. It's

22 simply you no longer have that, and so you've got to cut

23 back and restructure.

24 And so I would be very, very cautious in

25 writing any regs because I don't think you can see all

Page 36

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 of the problems that might be out there that we're going

2 to have to deal with.

3 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Is there a way, though,

4 to streamline, or make the process, the process, itself,

5 more certain? I understand what you're saying, Jess,

6 about the substantive issues that come up, and how we

7 look at the substantive issue. But we've heard a lot of

8 feedback on the process, how long it takes. I'm trying

9 to think of some of the other things. It's too early in

10 the morning.

11 There are some -- do you envision -- does

12 anyone have -- envision a process of how we can do the

13 process better to get more consistency out of the

14 feedback that comes to the tribes once we have completed

15 our review?

16 MR. GALLEGOS: Manny Gallegos, Pueblo of

17 Tesuque Gaming Commission.

18 I agree with Jess that we do have to be

19 careful in putting a regulation out. Once a regulation

20 is out, it is set in stone, and the only way we can get

21 rid of it is either through compromise with the Agency

22 or actually challenging it in court. I don't think we

23 want to do that.

24 You have mentioned several things of how to

25 streamline it. Maybe one of the best things is to do a

Page 37

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 guideline saying, "Here is what we are looking for.

2 Here are some of the examples that have come up." That

3 would give all the tribes at least something to look at

4 when they are structuring their agreements or going back

5 through their own internal audit or external audit to

6 review to see how that is being impacted.

7 The sole proprietorship, I don't think you

8 really want to start messing with the percentage

9 involved in that. I think it's almost on ownership

10 where you want to use the percentages. It's Indian

11 owned or non-Indian owned. That is the only time you

12 should use the percentages. It is not sole

13 proprietorship.

14 "Sole proprietorship," by definition, is only

15 one owner, period. You know, I think that maybe a

16 guideline to the tribes saying, "If you're going to do

17 this, here is something you need to look at. Here are

18 some of the examples we've come up with."

19 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you.

20 I just am reminded that one of the requests

21 that our general counsel made before we got on the road

22 this last week before last was to ask the tribes to,

23 please, allow them at least six weeks to review these

24 documents. Some of the tribes, you're putting them in

25 and having very, very short timelines. And I know the

Page 38

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 OGC is doing its very, very best to try to keep up with

2 those timelines.

3 But it goes back, again, Jess, to my question,

4 and I -- to my question about process. Can we do -- can

5 we put something in place? Would it be helpful to put

6 something in place that would identify what point in the

7 process the tribe should be consulting with us about

8 these agreements, so that we're -- we get the time we

9 need to do a proper -- once the request has come in from

10 the tribe?

11 You know, some of the ideas we were looking at

12 prior -- or asking the tribes to let us know prior to

13 execution of the agreements. After -- you know, should

14 they be required to come in after the deal has gone bad?

15 Should they wait until a dispute has occurred and the

16 tribe is in litigation? Is that the proper point to

17 come back to the Agency? These are things, I think,

18 that can help the tribes on a process level, but also

19 help the Agency be more mindful of its -- how are we

20 getting stuff back to the tribes, so that we prevent --

21 and Jennifer can probably speak to this better, but I've

22 heard the stories come out of OGC. You know, the tribe

23 is coming in with mountains full of paper and saying,

24 "We have to know in two days." And that just isn't --

25 isn't going to happen. We don't have the resources or

Page 39

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 time to do that.

2 MS. WARD: As we talk about sole proprietary

3 interest, one of the things that -- out of OGC that I'm

4 concerned with is a possible chilling effect on the

5 market. If you have a tribe that comes in six years

6 into a seven-year agreement, and, now, they want OGC to

7 take a look at it and use us as leverage saying, "Sure.

8 This violates the sole proprietary interest. This isn't

9 good," and then the tribe takes it to court, and, now,

10 you have -- it's great for that tribe. Now, they have

11 leverage. But what happens to the other tribes in the

12 market that are, now, trying to get financing,

13 especially, since we don't have anything that clearly

14 defines what sole proprietary interest is?

15 With the Torches case with Wells Fargo -- and

16 I don't know if any of you are aware of that, but that

17 was determined to be a management contract. And it was,

18 therefore, void. It's working its way through the

19 courts. But so far, Wells Fargo is out of a lot of

20 money because the contract was void. And it chilled the

21 market. Luckily, we had enough guidance on what a

22 management contract is that we were able to put it out

23 there to lenders and tribes so everybody has clear

24 guidelines, and you could work from there. But I don't

25 know that we have the same environment and the same base

Page 40

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 of knowledge, consistent knowledge, with sole

2 proprietary interest.

3 So if anyone has any comments on what they

4 think about the market, the chilling effect, what they

5 think sole proprietary interest should be and what we

6 should do about tribes that come in so late in a deal, I

7 would really like to hear comments on that, as well.

8 Thank you.

9 GOVERNOR GARCIA: David Garcia of the Pueblo

10 of Acoma.

11 I was thinking along the same lines. But I

12 mean in -- given this situation, I know a couple of

13 tribes, or a couple of gaming tribes in the State of New

14 Mexico, that are in that situation. But looking at the

15 scenario from my perspective as a gaming tribe, we don't

16 have debt that would influence issues of sole

17 proprietorship. But I would think that those kind of

18 issues should be thoroughly addressed up front, either

19 identifying, "Here are the terms. Here is the

20 identification of a management contract versus another

21 form of mechanism." That, I think, would -- could be --

22 you could write it so that terms and conditions could be

23 addressed down the road that both the tribe and the

24 third party could most certainly weigh in on if the

25 economy came to a situation, or maybe the debt was

Page 41

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 becoming too high.

2 But, of course, the other issue when you're

3 talking about a bank, you're talking -- you're not

4 talking a fixed rate. You're talking a fluctuation in

5 varying rates, so I mean that could go from -- anywhere

6 from 5 percent, 8 percent, 10 percent. So you're having

7 inconsistencies.

8 But, again, I would think -- my opinion would

9 be it comes down to the financial statements of the

10 tribe or the entity when you're looking at all of these

11 issues. But I mean, to me, I don't know that -- because

12 we are not -- we've never been in that situation of

13 looking at and identifying, deliberating on an issue of

14 sole proprietorship, not that I'm aware of within the

15 state of New Mexico. And I could be wrong.

16 But one gaming tribe that comes to mind is one

17 where they were trying to sell their assets, but because

18 the casino was on tribal property, it could not pass

19 that to a third party or other individual of a third

20 party. So I think these were all concerns that were

21 taken into it.

22 But I mean not knowing the true relationship

23 behind, I guess, maybe, all of the issues NIGC is facing

24 regarding the sole proprietorship, it's very hard to

25 comment on because, you know, we don't know. I mean

Page 42

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 unless you indicate like, "Okay. Here is kind of the

2 scenarios in some of these situations," then I think we

3 could better address -- in my mind, I would -- I would

4 -- I would feel comfortable if it was an issue of

5 guidance, a bulletin, as opposed to a regulation,

6 enhancing the regulation because, again, the very issues

7 of sole proprietary interests fluctuate with all -- I

8 mean the other side of it is, within the state of New

9 Mexico we have tax bonds. That's an issue that I don't

10 think tribes have ventured on as of yet, not within the

11 state of New Mexico. But maybe in other areas.

12 So I mean I don't know. It is very difficult

13 to comment on -- on this specific issue, but --

14 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you, Lieutenant

15 Governor.

16 There is a growing, as most of you know,

17 complexity to the issue because of the number of

18 agreements, and the type of agreements. The areas where

19 a potential violation can show up are just not in --

20 necessarily contained in any management contract

21 anymore. You can find them in many other areas; hence,

22 another reason why we're seeing the numbers go up.

23 And this also -- there are trends, a small

24 trend coming up, where you're having not just a tribe

25 and contractor, or it's not just a tribe and a lending

Page 43

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 institution, but, now, you have tribes that are having

2 issues with other tribes who were performing and acting

3 as -- providing financing opportunities and other types

4 of things.

5 So it's given that the arena is -- is becoming

6 increasingly more complex in this area, which is, again,

7 yet another reason why it's kind of a reason why it's

8 topic of the discussion for us so that we can try to

9 bring some clarity while we have the regs open for

10 consideration.

11 Are there any other comments?

12 All right. Why don't we take a quick break?

13 And we'll come back, and we'll begin with the MICS at

14 10:45.

15 (Recess.)

16 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: We'll go ahead and get

17 started so that, hopefully, we can get through some more

18 topics and maybe have an early afternoon.

19 I'm going to turn over the microphone, again,

20 to Lael and have her walk through group three, which is

21 543 and 547, and see if we can't get some of the

22 discussion underway before lunchtime, and, then, as I

23 said, perhaps get us out of here early this afternoon.

24 So, Lael, if you would?

25 MS. ECHO-HAWK: Okay. So the final sort of

Page 44

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 sensitive area that we're going to be covering this

2 morning is -- and for the rest of the day is group

3 three. Group three addresses Class II and -- Class II

4 minimal internal control standards and Class II

5 technical standards. We're also kind of throwing in a

6 little bit of Class III here because the MICS do overlap

7 in a number of areas, at least some of the proposals do.

8 And -- and so we do talk about them a little bit, as

9 well.

10 So when we sent out the Notice of Inquiry, the

11 Commission asked, "How should we proceed with updating

12 Class II minimum internal control standards and the

13 technical standards?" The technical standards have been

14 adopted and were put into place a couple of years ago.

15 And we heard that there were some updates that need to

16 be made and addressed.

17 And we've got some experts in the room, here,

18 on audits and technical standards. We have some over

19 here and the rest over there, so if we have questions,

20 they can help respond, as well.

21 But there was -- there was -- you know, within

22 the Agency, we -- we know, we've heard that the MICS

23 certainly need to be updated, that there are gaps, that

24 the technology and things have moved along. In the

25 industry we haven't really kept up. And we have some

Page 45

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 MICS that are currently on the website that were being

2 drafted at the time that the Commission came in, but we

3 haven't done a lot of work on them because -- since then

4 because we wanted to go -- the Commission wanted to go

5 through this process of amending and revising those and

6 updating those, and doing it in a way that includes the

7 most people possible representative of the industry.

8 And we've been talking about how do we do that.

9 We -- we had a tribal gaming working group

10 submit their information to us. And we understand that

11 they're still in the process of finalizing some

12 documents and getting them to us. That is an

13 alternative standard that, perhaps, we can -- that the

14 Commission is interested in looking at and seeing if

15 that addresses some of the concerns and resolves some of

16 the issues that are in the current MICS, as well as the

17 technical standards.

18 We've received -- over the course of the past

19 consultations, nine and a half, I guess, consultations,

20 we've heard from tribes that -- that they would like

21 another shot at a tribal working group, a tribal

22 advisory committee. That particular -- that issue of a

23 tribal advisory committee is complicated. There has

24 been kind of a history with that, working with that type

25 of advisory committee at the Agency, but it is something

Page 46

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 we're hearing tribes say they would like to see again.

2 So one of the questions that comes -- several

3 questions that come up with that, then, is, "Okay. If

4 we decide to use a tribal advisory committee to work on

5 the minimum internal control standards and the technical

6 standards, perhaps, depending on what happens with

7 the -- updating the Class II minimum internal control

8 standards, how do we do that?" "What factors should be

9 considered in selecting that kind of committee?"

10 Region -- just our ideas have been region,

11 size of operation, regulated and operators, Class II,

12 Class III, experience, the background experience of

13 representatives, how many members should be on that

14 committee so it has enough representation but is not

15 unwieldy, whether or not we should use a facilitator,

16 and then, how tribes participate that may not be

17 officially on the committee. But how do we get that

18 external participation that we need in order to make

19 sure that all of the voices are heard and that we come

20 up with the best product possible?

21 And then, what sort of product are we looking

22 for from a tribal advisory committee? Are we looking

23 for a new set of regulations? Are we looking for

24 guidance? Documents? What are we -- what is it that

25 the tribal advisory committee would actually create?

Page 47

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 And then, if we do a tribal advisory committee

2 to address these issues, how do we build in the

3 consultation components, because we recognize that a

4 tribal advisory committee is more of a technical,

5 working committee. And while it is very helpful, it is

6 not subject to -- for consultation with tribes, like

7 what we're doing here.

8 So we've got this -- this -- this idea that's

9 been thrown out by tribes, and we're thinking internally

10 about how do we, perhaps, taking the MICS, the Class II,

11 Class III MICS, and the technical standards and putting

12 them on separate tracks so that we can get done all of

13 the things we've talked about over the past day and a

14 half. We can get those out of the way. We can address

15 those issues that are just as important as the MICS,

16 without getting bogged down in the very technical

17 auditing requirements and the technical IT requirements

18 of the actual MICS and technical standards.

19 So that's kind of what we're interested in

20 hearing about right now. I will let the Vice Chair take

21 it away.

22 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: This -- this group

23 includes the two items I know that the Commission has

24 very clearly made public statements that we intend to

25 bring resolution to, or to finalize discussions that

Page 48

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 have been ongoing for years and years and years on this.

2 There is -- as the PowerPoint that Lael put together

3 pointed out, there is another effective date on the

4 Class II bingo MICS coming up on October 13th. It's

5 already extended twice because it's -- it's an

6 end-result issue.

7 And the Commission internally has agreed to,

8 perhaps, pull off these two issues because they are

9 interrelated in many respects, pull them off of our

10 regulatory review track, if you will, and to address

11 them separately so the remainder of the train doesn't

12 get stopped with -- with the other -- these other areas,

13 which are very complex and very detailed in their

14 discussions, so that we allow the work of the other

15 regulations to continue to go forward so that they don't

16 get stuck.

17 The question that went out and that the tribes

18 responded to was "How should we do this? How should we

19 look at those? If we put a TAC together, what should it

20 look like?"

21 And so I want to reopen that question in case

22 somebody wants to respond and hasn't responded to date,

23 or has thoughts on this, the process, how to -- to

24 approach the MICS.

25 There was an attempt, as you know, many of

Page 49

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 you, I know, were part of that process after CRIT, to

2 break out the MICS into separate parts. And there was a

3 lot of work that went on in that work, that, actually,

4 continued to go on until May of last year, at which time

5 the Commission said, "We're not going to pursue that

6 right now until we've talked to the tribes."

7 So I'm going to turn it over and let you have

8 an opportunity to comment.

9 MR. GREEN: Thank you. This is Jess Green.

10 Part of the -- my communication is more

11 informational since I have worked with the group that is

12 actually putting together these -- these proposed

13 replacements.

14 We have worked for about the last six months.

15 We've had conference calls that lasted half a day to

16 last up until this last week, about three times, half a

17 day every day. We've had several face-to-face meetings,

18 including one earlier this month in Las Vegas, in which

19 we spent four days. We would start at 8:00 and go to

20 6:00. Literally, they'd bring food to us. Lawyers do

21 actually work like that sometimes.

22 There are currently three lawyers, basically

23 in a single room in California, that are working to make

24 sure all of the things that we've done over the last six

25 months have the same style and format. Their work

Page 50

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 product will be released as the work product of the

2 group I participated in either Friday or Monday.

3 And what I would tell you is the work groups

4 that put these together were industry people, i.e.,

5 people that work in the industry, that make reports to

6 tribes, that participate in meeting the MICS standards,

7 and have had problems meeting them, or fear problems

8 meeting them in the future. Again, vendors -- vendors

9 have a great financial interest in what the standards

10 are going to be so they don't restrict their future

11 development. And we have had representatives from a

12 number of very profitable Class II tribes. Again, they

13 have a huge interest that the MICS they're working

14 under, that they have gotten variances and other things,

15 that it be accepted.

16 As Mark Van Norman and I discussed in the

17 hall, the biggest concern I have is that the tribes that

18 do Class II gaming, and do only Class II gaming, have

19 come up with these MICS. They basically have copied

20 what they're doing in their casinos. Now, these are the

21 tribes that are doing most of the volume.

22 My concern is that, because those of us that

23 participate are all doing the same thing, we're in

24 tunnel vision. I really need those of you that are

25 venturing into the market, that have a different set of

Page 51

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 eyes -- I need you to come in and look because I don't

2 want to have made these too restrictive.

3 What we basically have done is taken one

4 tribe's minimum internal control standards and approved

5 them with modifications for everybody in the room. At

6 their current operations it fit in because we had

7 operational people, we had gaming commission people.

8 And we took all of those considerations, and made

9 everybody's thoughts MICS, and we tried to make them as

10 simple as possible.

11 And then we took the guidance documents, which

12 are much more voluminous, from a -- from one of the

13 tribes that had very voluminous guidance documents

14 because we said, "MICS without guidance documents are

15 not real helpful if you're just moving into this." And

16 so there is also a secondary piece, that our guidance

17 documents are -- that are very voluminous. And so you

18 end up with about an inch and a half thick, if you print

19 it out, of material that reads like assembling stereos.

20 Now, those of you that work in the gaming

21 commission are used to reading stereo instructions, but

22 it is still the kind of thing that puts you to sleep

23 when you work on it three or four hours, unless you get

24 some kind of hot debate going on.

25 I -- I generally think that that product

Page 52

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 certainly needs to be on its own track. That product

2 needs to be reviewed by those of you that are

3 anticipating participating in a Class II gaming

4 industry, and if you -- if your fresh set of eyes have

5 any suggested changes, they're not going to be rejected.

6 We know we were victims of tunnel vision because we all

7 do -- we've done these things this way for years and

8 years. We have been making changes and variances

9 because we've become more modern. We're trying to

10 update the standards.

11 And, again, what happened is, our experience

12 has led us to make changes, work on it, and assemble

13 those changes in new and updated MICS. We expect this

14 will need to be done every four or five years. The

15 group that has done this has spent an enormous amount of

16 time and money that is not paid by the NIGC. If we had

17 written or own reg -- and we are capable in the business

18 industry, and we've done so because we wanted to be

19 useful.

20 We have tried the other way around, and it's

21 really been frustrating when somebody is trying to take

22 Class III regulations and squeeze them into Class II

23 when our operations originated someplace else. And,

24 again, I have been in those discussions that terminated

25 last May. Whenever I have asked NIGC to represent to

Page 53

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 me, "What does this reg mean?" and have him respond, "I

2 don't know. I just pulled it out of the New Jersey

3 regs," or "the Nevada regs." And -- and -- and my

4 response was, "Why did you put something in if you don't

5 know what it means, because I can't understand what it

6 means?" And none of my people in operations knew what

7 it means.

8 And, again, I've not ever been on NIGC's task

9 force, but I've always sat in the audience and bided my

10 time. And those of you that have not observed the

11 previous Commission's task force, initially, they

12 wouldn't let anybody in. Then you could get in, and

13 couldn't comment. And you had to sit in the back of the

14 room. Then we finally put enough pressure that we

15 started getting to comment at the end of the meeting.

16 And then there were some meetings that we were

17 told, "If you get three strikes, you're out." And

18 basically if you said three things that the person

19 running the meeting didn't like, you had to leave the

20 room. And, of course, that meant I couldn't ask any

21 questions at all because my questions would cause me to

22 have to leave the room.

23 The current commissioners are all very, very

24 well educated. Some of them actually participated on

25 the tribal side in that and have assured me in this task

Page 54

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 group that they're considering using, those concepts

2 won't be there. It was made very clear by the former

3 NIGC group that "This is our group. We're running it.

4 We're making the final decisions. All you're making is

5 suggestions."

6 I would suggest that if -- when you make any

7 suggestions as to how these task groups ought to be,

8 that they be co-chaired. Those of you that have

9 participated in rulemaking in other forums, in housing

10 and in other areas, know that lots of times there are

11 co-chairs. And there is -- there are discussions, not

12 declarations, about how things ought to be, and you

13 reach consensus.

14 And if we had co-chairs, we had an elected

15 tribal leader that was willing to serve as co-chair for

16 this type of a TAC, and we had a representative from the

17 NIGC, we would then have two representatives that would

18 make sure both sides were heard, in, hopefully, some

19 reasonable fashion in a very swift -- at a very swift

20 pace.

21 The other thing about having elected tribal

22 leaders, my experience is y'all move things along.

23 Y'all have things to do back home. And you won't let

24 these TACs go on and take years and years. You make

25 them -- you make them all take weeks or months.

Page 55

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 And I think that is the other issue is when

2 they put that task force together, they are going to

3 have to assemble a deadline date. And there will be a

4 lot of material to evaluate. It will be technical and

5 complex. Again, keep in mind we are not -- when that --

6 when that agreement comes forward, those of us that have

7 participated, we're not trying to cram anything down

8 anyone's throat. We are suggesting that these updates

9 will work.

10 Thank you.

11 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you, Jess.

12 Before you hand the microphone back, would you

13 be willing to -- those who are not -- who may not be

14 familiar with the TCRG -- and who made up the TCRG, just

15 explain that to us?

16 MR. GREEN: The previous Tribal Regular --

17 Tribal Commission Regulatory Group, the -- you made

18 submissions to the chairman of the NIGC, and then they

19 selected who they wanted. And they selected a lot of

20 Class III people to do the Class II stuff, which didn't

21 make a lot of sense to us.

22 The tribal regulatory group that we have

23 assembled are volunteers from tribal gaming commissions

24 that have tribes willing to spend their budget for that.

25 Tribal operations, again, it's been my experience that

Page 56

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 if you just assemble lawyers and accountants, you make a

2 heck of a mess with regulations because you have to have

3 the people that actually do them.

4 I wrote a set of regs once that I thought were

5 really good. They were drop regs. And I was called to

6 the casino at 6:30 and said, "Watch the drop. This is

7 how we used to do it." And they finished in about an

8 hour and a half. Three hours after they finished, they

9 were finished with the regs, I -- I got together with

10 the other half of the casino, and they said, "Now, are

11 you going to tell the governor of the tribe that we

12 can't open the casino for three more hours, or are you

13 going to revise your regs?" at which point I relented

14 and said "I have taken" -- the 15 seconds I had for the

15 drop, for the percentage of the drops doesn't work. And

16 so you need those sort of people that work every day in

17 the industry, and they have been a part of it, the

18 people that actually work in management.

19 And the people that actually do the audit work

20 from our own gaming commissions have been there. So you

21 have industry people in this -- in this group that's

22 been putting these together. You've got -- that have a

23 financial interest. You've got tribal gaming

24 commissions. You've got elected tribal leaders that

25 have participated who have Class II operations and know

Page 57

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 this is what their tribe runs on. You've got

2 operational people, and then you've got lawyers and

3 accountants who have participated because we do have

4 legal requirements we have to meet.

5 And then, the audit requirements for the

6 tribal gaming facilities are really our most stringent

7 things that we do. They're the hardest rules for us to

8 -- to meet. And so we've had a large amount of

9 participation from -- from tribal accountants and audit

10 people.

11 Is that the explanation you were looking for?

12 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you.

13 The work product that has come out of this

14 group, the initial work product, was sent to the NIGC.

15 And we sent it out for review without the bulletins. We

16 don't have any of the guidelines. We just have the

17 initial work product, which was not a lengthy amount of

18 material. But they did share that with us, and did say

19 the bulletin is coming. And that's kind of the

20 heartbeat of the set of draft MICS.

21 MR. GREEN: We've moved a lot of material that

22 was in the MICS to the guidance documents.

23 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Yeah.

24 And so we've been asked -- we -- we, the

25 Agency, have been asked to share, or put it up on our

Page 58

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 website so that people have access to -- to the product

2 of the work group. We have not done that because it was

3 an incomplete product, and we did not want to confuse

4 people who may not be familiar with it. I know the

5 journey will continue, you know, once a complete product

6 is put in, to consider whether or not we should put it

7 up there. Is it appropriate? Is it appropriate in that

8 forum, or -- but my understanding -- and anyone who has

9 participated can correct me -- is that if somebody wants

10 to see what they have been working on, the group has

11 been willing to share it. It's not a product that's,

12 you know, off limits to those other than who

13 participates. So there is access to it, if -- if you

14 have an interest in seeing what they're working on.

15 And that product and the efforts of the group,

16 the MICS revisions that have been pending, now, for a

17 couple of years, that they stopped working on in 2010,

18 there's all kinds of work that has been done in this

19 area. And there's some -- process aside, there are --

20 my understanding, there are some good things that are in

21 the proposed MICS for those who have looked at it more

22 closely. I understand there are some really good things

23 that are coming out of this work group. So we have the

24 foundation that the -- a lot of the hard work has

25 already been done. And the tribes have undertaken quite

Page 59

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 a bit of that -- that effort.

2 So if a TAC is put together on this issue,

3 we -- we take some comfort in knowing that, hopefully,

4 those two products will be of use to the group, and the

5 hard work in that regard will be done, so that the group

6 can focus on making decisions and making agreements and

7 compromises where it needs to happen. So the hope is,

8 as we talk about a TAC, is that we can move the work

9 along faster. It's not going to get bogged down for

10 months and years like the prior efforts did.

11 So that's the kind of thinking that we have.

12 And I know that the Commission and the Chairwoman have

13 sat down with people with the Interior who have

14 expertise in this area, in other topics. The -- we

15 recently talked about one of them who has a lot of

16 experience in how do you get those complex issues

17 resolved in an efficient manner?

18 They have resources available to us, which the

19 Agency, of course, greatly welcomes, because we don't

20 have facilitators or negotiators or other experts like

21 that, and we don't have the money, necessarily, for

22 that. So we're really trying to -- to find those

23 resources to come up with the best idea to do a TAC.

24 And it will not look like the previous ones in many,

25 many regards. We understand the frustrations that

Page 60

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 occurred during that -- that last process.

2 MR. GREEN: Again, that product should be

3 available Friday or Monday.

4 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you, Jess.

5 MR. APODOCA: Is it going to be online?

6 MR. GREEN: Yes. It -- it -- it will be

7 available. If you have no other way to get it, you can

8 contact my office. We'll give you a link. Matthew

9 Morgan, the gaming commissioner for the Chickasaw

10 Nation, was the chairperson from like January to May.

11 And he basically said, "I've got to go back to work."

12 And he sent representatives thereafter.

13 Those of you that have contact with Rocket

14 Gaming, Rocket Gaming was -- was some of the

15 participants. Multimedia Games sent some participants.

16 There are probably 80 to 95 people that were on the list

17 that were receiving our products as we moved along.

18 Any of us can be contacted, and we will

19 forward you the links. Other attorneys who -- who have

20 been working on this are Ms. Homer, who was a former

21 NIGC Vice Chair, and Gary Faust, who is a former NIGC

22 commissioner. Either of those people, certainly, could

23 forward those to you if you have their names or their

24 phone numbers. They are both attorneys. And, of

25 course, I'm sure that NAGA will be able to -- would you

Page 61

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 not? If I can get his attention? We've got dual

2 tasking over there.

3 Would NAGA be able to forward the copies if

4 they were requested?

5 Would NAGA be able to forward the copies?

6 MR. VAN NORMAN: Sure. Sure.

7 MR. GREEN: They ought be available by Monday

8 or -- by Monday, don't you think?

9 MR. VAN NORMAN: Yeah, Ms. Homer represented

10 us.

11 MR. GREEN: And she is the person, one of

12 those three people that is working. And so, if you

13 haven't got a way to communicate within the National

14 Indian Gaming Association, I'm sure we will be able to

15 forward those to you. We would advise you to

16 participate, but we're done.

17 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: I.e., they need new

18 bodies.

19 MR. APODOCA: Albert Apodaca.

20 Are -- just the New Mexico tribes are at a

21 distinct disadvantage because we've had very little

22 experience with Class II, but I mean as far as the

23 gaming commission part. And that's -- that's,

24 obviously, a concern because I think we would be

25 dependent on those with more experience to say, protect

Page 62

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 the -- say, the interests of the tribes and that sort of

2 thing, in the Class II MICS, and that sort of thing. So

3 I mean we're learning as we go, and I know, like for us,

4 we're looking at it right now.

5 My concern is, obviously, if you have -- like

6 the same thing. If you had the -- the -- your remark

7 was you had Class III operators serving on the tribal

8 advisory committee, the TAC, and they made the rules for

9 the Class II, right? And it didn't quite fit. Now,

10 you've got kind of the opposite occurring and because

11 most of us will keep Class III, won't be a dedicated

12 Class II, for the most part, you know, a Class II gaming

13 operation. So there's some concerns there. Like -- and

14 we don't know because of our lack of experience -- and

15 I'm just talking about our tribe. We don't know what's

16 good and what's bad.

17 I mean that's just something that we're going

18 to have to kind of trust that -- the work that -- that

19 came out. I would -- I would probably feel more

20 comfortable with -- with the work that this group put

21 together than the previous NIGC, or the TAC, you know.

22 But just comments.

23 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you.

24 The -- your comments actually feed into the

25 question that I wanted to pose to the group.

Page 63

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 Again, the Commission, in our discussions, we

2 discussed very lengthy about the make-up of the former

3 group, why that didn't work in the sense that Class II

4 and Class III are not identical in their needs. And

5 this -- especially in the MICS. And we agree that --

6 very, very much so -- that there is a need for us to

7 also call upon the right experts in the industry.

8 Just as, you know, you say you're relying upon

9 others who may have more experience, you know, we have

10 the same need, too, in putting a TAC together, which

11 leads to questions -- leads us to questions about ideas

12 on how might the TAC look, who -- who may or may not be

13 the right people to put on it. There's discussions

14 about whether or not manufacturers and other types

15 should be on it, or should it be limited to the

16 operations and the gaming commissions and people

17 specifically designated by a tribe to represent their

18 expertise on behalf of tribes.

19 And the other thing is that I should be very,

20 very clear, if a TAC is put together, first of all, that

21 decision will be made very quickly because we don't have

22 a lot of time. But beyond that, it will not replace

23 consultation. The advisory committees cannot replace

24 our obligation to consult with the tribes, ultimately.

25 But the TAC can do all the legwork to make the decisions

Page 64

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 very clear once we sit down to the table to consult. So

2 I want to -- I want to make sure that that's conveyed

3 properly.

4 Does anybody have any thoughts on the make-up?

5 Size? We are dealing with different regions who have

6 distinct ideas and needs. We, of course, deal with

7 different-sized tribes, different-sized operations. You

8 know, we welcome your thoughts, experts.

9 We are having our general -- our Office of

10 General Counsel very clearly look at and give us

11 feedback on what federal law requires of us under FACA.

12 We believe it was used as a barrier last time, and

13 that's really, perhaps, not the best interpretation. We

14 think that there's a different interpretation of FACA

15 that will give us more flexibility so that we stay

16 within the confines of the law that limits our actions,

17 but does not violate our obligation to -- to work

18 closely with the tribes in this area. So we've asked

19 for a better and different interpretation than was

20 provided in previous years.

21 We also understand and have discussed, again,

22 with Interior, talking about ideas, creative ideas,

23 different ideas, you know, "How can we put a group

24 together and get that group to manage their workload in

25 the shortest time possible?" because we know so much

Page 65

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 time has already been given up. You know, "Can we do

2 some creative idea which says, the work of this group

3 will be done by a date certain?" because the time frame

4 that we're working in is very, very small.

5 Those are the questions, you know, I wanted to

6 put out and discuss. I certainly want to open up the

7 floor, though, to other questions on part number 3.

8 Anything else on part 5?

9 All right. I want to give one final

10 opportunity, again, because I know that we have

11 leadership here, we have attorneys here, and other

12 regulators here. Give you an opportunity, if there is

13 anything that you haven't said that you wanted to say,

14 that you want to just bring to the table for us to

15 consider, the -- the floor is yours. Your time is

16 valuable. And I certainly want to make sure that

17 everybody has had their opportunity.

18 Well, I think we're done. I appreciate very

19 much your time. I appreciate your comments, your

20 thoughts. Please know that you can e-mail us any

21 written comments, if you want to submit them. We hope

22 to have the transcript up pretty soon. I wish you very

23 safe travel going home.

24 And Albert, you have something you want to

25 say?

Page 66

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 MR. APODOCA: I just wanted to say thank you

2 for taking the time to spend with us and listening to

3 us. I'm sure you've heard a lot of this repeated over

4 and over, and this thing and that sort of thing. But we

5 appreciate the attention and -- and the fact that you're

6 taking into consideration our remarks, our statements,

7 and taking some issues that we have.

8 I -- I would just like the National Gaming

9 Commission to be a little bit more transparent, and --

10 and being able to share some information, like I brought

11 up the issue about the management, you know. The

12 investigation of background is just one example. But

13 even the website, like having the directory so we know

14 who to send what to. And I use an example of like

15 Elaine, you know, who do you send the audited financial

16 statements to if you only deal with them once a year,

17 you know? Just things like that. But I really do

18 appreciate you taking this time.

19 VICE CHAIR COCHRAN: Thank you for your

20 comments. And we are working towards becoming as

21 transparent as we can. Most of us have been on the

22 other side, so we know how difficult it can be to get

23 information. And some day, we will get our technology

24 updated. So that will support that transparency,

25 electronic equipment with digital format.

Page 67

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 So thank you for those comments.

2 And this means I get an early start to

3 enjoying the next 48 hours at home, which I always

4 welcome.

5 So please, again, safe travels, and thank you

6 for your time.

7 (Whereupon, the proceedings were adjourned

8 for the day at 11:17 a.m.)

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 68

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
1 STATE OF NEW MEXICO )

 )

2 COUNTY OF BERNALILLO )

3

4 REPORTER CERTIFICATE

5 I, Karen Lee Clark, RPR, CCR No. 277, Certified

6 Court Reporter in the State of New Mexico, do hereby

7 certify that the foregoing pages constitute a true

8 transcript of the proceedings by National Indian Gaming

9 Commission, held in New Mexico, in the matter therein

10 stated.

11 In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand

12 on August 4th, 2011.

13

14 _________________________________

 KAREN LEE CLARK, RPR, CCR No. 277

15 License Expires: 12/31/11

 Bean & Associates, Inc.

16 201 Third Street, Northwest

 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 69

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
&

& 1:21 69:15

1

1 21:18 24:21 27:9

27:10

10 31:25 36:18 42:6

10:45 44:14

11 34:7 35:20

11:17 68:8

12/31/11 69:15

13th 49:4

14500 1:13

1470k 1:25

15 57:14

16 33:16,18,21

1630 1:22

1998 6:20

2

20 34:17

2008 33:24

2009 33:23

201 1:22 69:16

2010 33:20 59:17

2011 1:11 12:22

33:17 69:12

21 1:11

227 1:21

25 14:22 18:13,14

18:15

2706 21:18 24:21

27:9,10

277 69:5,14

3

3 66:7

30 14:17 24:6 34:17

35 24:6

4

4 21:19 24:22 27:10

27:10

48 68:3

4th 69:12

5

5 42:6 66:8

50 14:16

518 12:10

518.4 7:12

543 44:21

547 44:21

6

60 20:13,15

60/40 9:24

66 1:12

6:00 50:20

6:30 57:6

7

70/30 9:24

8

8 42:6

80 35:25 61:16

87102 1:23 69:16

8:00 50:19

9

90 30:24

95 61:16

a

a.m. 68:8

ability 27:11

able 2:9 5:19 19:12

25:4 40:22 61:25

62:3,5,14 67:10

accepted 51:15

access 3:24 10:5,7

13:8 59:1,13

accessed 12:20

accessible 9:12

accomplished 6:25

accountants 57:1

58:3,9

accounted 17:22

accounting 7:7,18

7:23 8:21

accumulation 36:14

36:19

accurately 21:13

achieve 17:17

acoma 2:24 11:23

41:10

act 19:1

acting 44:2

action 32:24

actions 65:16

activities 6:1,8,10

22:2 24:12,23

activity 7:21 8:4

13:4 22:1 30:6 34:1

actual 25:4 48:18

additional 6:13

22:18 27:22

additionally 7:22

8:19

address 4:19 5:13

5:18 10:14 16:7

32:17 35:18 36:5

43:3 48:2,14 49:10

addressed 19:20

41:18,23 45:16

addresses 45:3

46:15

adequate 7:23 8:23

8:25

adjourned 68:7

administrative 5:5

adopted 45:14

adoption 8:9

advantage 5:19 14:5

advise 25:7 26:7

62:15

advisory 30:25

46:22,23,25 47:4,22

47:25 48:1,4 63:8

64:23

afternoon 10:15

44:18,23

agency 13:13 20:16

26:2 30:9,20 32:4,8

32:23,23,24 33:4,13

35:7 37:21 39:17,19

45:22 46:25 58:25

60:19

agency's 16:24

agenda 2:12

agents 20:14

ago 3:12 21:4 45:14

agree 37:18 64:5

agreed 13:25 19:5

49:7

agreement 40:6 56:6

agreements 28:18

30:19,20 31:1,8,16

31:16,18,19,19,20

31:20,21,25 36:14

38:4 39:8,13 43:18

43:18 60:6

ahead 2:8 44:16

alabama 16:14

alarmed 25:14

alaska 29:16

albert 62:19 66:24

albuquerque 1:14

1:23 69:16

allow 12:15 38:23

49:14

allows 19:24

alternative 46:13

amended 6:16

amending 46:5

amendment 26:20

26:25

amount 23:18 30:2

53:15 58:8,17

andy 29:15

annual 5:10,10 6:15

19:21 21:14,16

22:23,24 23:2,3

annuals 21:14

answer 18:6

anticipating 53:3

antonio 11:20

anybody 23:8 54:12

65:4

anymore 43:21

anyone's 56:8

[& - anyone's] Page 1

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
apache 11:6,14,16

29:9

apodaca 62:19

apodoca 61:5 62:19

67:1

apologize 14:12

appear 15:19

appears 6:23

application 17:4,17

applications 15:3

applied 25:17

apply 22:2

appointment 3:14

appreciate 66:18,19

67:5,18

approach 14:18

17:5 49:24

appropriate 33:4

59:7,7

approvals 31:2

approved 52:4

area 12:16 22:1,5

27:23 28:10 29:24

33:14 44:6 45:1

59:19 60:14 65:18

areas 3:24 12:14

17:20,21 43:11,18

43:21 45:7 49:12

55:10

arena 44:5

argument 15:4

arnold 11:16

aside 59:19

asked 4:25 9:16

17:21 27:25 33:18

45:11 53:25 58:24

58:25 65:18

asking 23:7 39:12

assemble 53:12 56:3

57:1

assembled 56:23

assembling 52:19

assessed 12:18,24

23:20

assets 42:17

associate 3:12

associates 1:21

69:15

association 29:10

62:14

assured 54:25

attempt 49:25

attention 22:9 62:1

67:5

attorney 2:17 29:21

attorneys 16:21

61:19,24 66:11

audience 54:9

audit 21:14,16 23:2

23:4 38:5,5 57:19

58:5,9

audited 67:15

auditing 13:9 22:15

48:17

audits 8:22 45:18

august 69:12

authorities 24:21

authority 7:6 24:22

27:19

availability 30:7

available 6:14 60:18

61:3,7 62:7

avenue 1:13

aware 28:6 40:16

42:14

b

b 21:18 24:21 27:9

27:10

back 4:1,1,9 15:2

30:21 32:14 36:1,23

38:4 39:3,17,20

44:13 54:13 55:23

56:12 61:11

background 13:8

16:17 47:12 67:12

bad 16:8 25:23

39:14 63:16

badge 13:24

bank 42:3

bankruptcy 34:7

barrier 65:12

base 40:25

based 35:9

basically 21:21

50:22 51:19 52:3

54:18 61:11

basis 13:6

beach 11:15,16

bean 1:21 69:15

becenti 29:20,21

becoming 42:1 44:5

67:20

beginning 18:24

begun 6:22

behalf 64:18

believe 19:17 22:8

65:12

beneficial 17:15

18:1,2

beneficiary 10:3

benefit 12:17,25

14:7 17:15 24:20,24

25:4

benefits 5:6,15 13:2

13:23 22:7

bernalillo 69:2

best 37:25 39:1

47:20 60:23 65:13

better 14:4 26:10

37:13 39:21 43:3

65:19

betting 21:2

beyond 23:13 24:25

64:22

bided 54:9

big 19:12

biggest 51:17

binding 36:10

bingo 6:7 49:4

bit 2:10 13:15 28:3

33:12 45:6,8 60:1

67:9

board 26:19 27:5

31:13

bodies 7:6 62:18

body 8:15,20 31:3

bogged 48:16 60:9

bonds 43:9

books 13:10

born 3:8

bottom 34:23

break 44:12 50:2

briefly 3:5

bright 32:19

bring 10:17 44:9

48:25 50:20 66:14

brought 67:10

budget 26:23 56:24

build 48:2

bulletin 30:12 43:5

58:19

bulletins 58:15

burden 5:5 13:22

17:25 19:9 24:15

25:5

burdensome 5:9

21:17

business 15:5,6 30:3

53:17

c

calendar 12:21,22

california 16:13

50:23

call 64:7

called 57:5

calls 50:15

capability 34:9

capable 53:17

capital 10:8

capture 22:9

careful 37:19

carry 10:16

case 40:15 49:21

cases 36:11

casino 1:12 32:1

35:11 42:18 57:6,10

[apache - casino] Page 2

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
57:12

casinos 51:20

cause 20:21 54:21

cautious 36:24

caveats 35:8

ccr 1:21 69:5,14

central 1:13

cents 35:25

cert 5:2

certain 37:5 66:3

certainly 2:6 21:6

25:7,20 26:6 27:1,7

32:15 41:24 45:23

53:1 61:22 66:6,16

certainty 32:6

certificate 7:15

12:23,25 13:22

20:12 25:2 69:4

certification 5:3,3,8

5:12,19 6:18,18 9:6

14:1 17:18 25:18

26:2

certified 15:22

19:14 69:5

certify 18:12 69:7

chair 1:18 2:1 3:1

10:25 11:7,10,24

17:12 20:2 21:24

23:16 27:21 29:4,11

29:17,23 33:12 37:3

38:19 43:14 44:16

48:20,22 55:15

56:11 58:12,23 61:4

61:21 62:17 63:23

67:19

chaired 55:8

chairman 11:14

15:1 27:16 56:18

chairperson 61:10

chairs 55:11,14

chairwoman 1:18

3:6 31:11 60:12

challenge 16:19

19:16 20:6,9

challenged 15:17

challenges 16:22

challenging 16:23

37:22

change 35:9

changes 9:9 53:5,8

53:12,13

chapter 34:7 35:20

charged 12:23

chickasaw 3:8 61:9

chilled 40:20

chilling 28:19 40:4

41:4

chiwiwi 11:20,20

20:4 23:14

choctaw 20:12

circumstance 20:20

city 31:8

clarifies 33:9

clarity 44:9

clark 1:21 69:5,14

class 4:15,21 5:1,2

6:1,3,6,8 10:12,19

12:11,16 13:5,7,11

14:14,17 15:9 16:10

22:1,2,3,4,6,7 23:17

23:22,24 24:6,8,9

24:12,12,13 26:19

26:23,24 27:10,11

27:12 45:3,3,4,6,12

47:7,11,12 48:10,11

49:4 51:12,18,18

53:3,22,22 56:20,20

57:25 62:22 63:2,7

63:9,11,12,12 64:3

64:4

clear 8:24 9:24 10:4

28:12,21 40:23 55:2

64:20 65:1

clearly 36:4 40:13

48:24 65:10

closed 21:5

closely 59:22 65:18

closures 7:5

cochran 1:18 2:1 3:1

3:6 10:25 11:7,10

11:24 17:12 20:2

21:24 23:16 27:21

29:4,11,17,23 33:12

37:3 38:19 43:14

44:16 48:22 56:11

58:12,23 61:4 62:17

63:23 67:19

come 2:2,4 3:1 5:21

17:8 25:23,25 26:1

28:8 29:12,24 30:8

31:22 33:23 37:6

38:2,18 39:9,14,17

39:22 41:6 44:13

47:3,19 51:19 52:1

58:13 60:23

comes 24:22 34:2

37:14 40:5 42:9,16

47:2 56:6

comfort 60:3

comfortable 43:4

63:20

coming 3:4 4:9

25:20 34:16 35:2

39:23 43:24 49:4

58:19 59:23

comment 14:3 42:25

43:13 50:8 54:13,15

commenters 5:8

comments 5:4 9:20

17:17 20:3 22:19

24:4 26:8 27:22

30:12 41:3,7 44:11

63:22,24 66:19,21

67:20 68:1

commission 1:9,17

3:7 4:25 9:16,21

10:19 24:3 25:20

27:25 31:3 32:9

37:17 45:11 46:2,4

46:14 48:23 49:7

50:5 52:7,21 56:17

60:12 62:23 64:1

67:9 69:9

commission's 29:18

54:11

commissioner 18:12

25:1 61:9,22

commissioners 4:2

16:10 54:23

commissions 56:23

57:20,24 64:16

committee 46:22,23

46:25 47:4,9,14,17

47:22,25 48:1,4,5

63:8

committees 64:23

communicate 19:9

62:13

communicating

21:9

communication

18:19,21 19:18

20:22 50:10

communications

16:3

community 25:16

25:23,25

compact 14:16,18

24:15,16

companies 28:17

complete 23:2 59:5

completed 37:14

completing 5:5

complex 19:16 44:6

49:13 56:5 60:16

complexity 43:17

compliance 8:4,20

complicated 46:23

comply 24:14

components 48:3

composition 7:5,6

compromise 36:2

37:21

compromises 60:7

concept 16:8 18:25

21:8 36:8

concepts 55:1

[casino - concepts] Page 3

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
concern 14:2 28:21

33:1 51:17,22 62:24

63:5

concerned 40:4

concerns 4:20 22:20

25:23 26:5 31:13

42:20 46:15 63:13

conditions 41:22

conducted 7:17 8:4

13:7,11

conducting 13:7

confederated 13:16

conference 17:7

50:15

confident 16:15

confines 65:16

conflict 8:16

confuse 59:3

congress 19:5 20:1

20:13 21:13 26:25

consensus 13:20

27:2 55:13

consider 9:17 10:3

15:2,3 22:14 27:25

59:6 66:15

consideration 23:9

44:10 67:6

considerations 52:8

considered 31:10,11

47:9

considering 25:16

25:16 55:1

consistency 32:10

32:22 37:13

consistent 34:4 41:1

constitute 69:7

constraints 12:4

consult 64:24 65:1

consultation 1:10

48:3,6 64:23

consultations 3:22

28:25 46:19,19

consulting 31:20

39:7

contact 61:8,13

contacted 61:18

contained 9:23 25:9

43:20

context 6:20

continually 35:16

continue 4:23 15:23

21:12 28:24 49:15

59:5

continued 50:4

continues 10:18

27:10 35:22

continuing 13:5

20:10

contract 21:22 30:5

31:1 40:17,20,22

41:20 43:20

contractor 43:25

contracts 26:22

36:18

control 30:5 45:4,12

47:5,7 52:4

controls 4:21 7:9

conversation 10:16

10:17 14:9

conveyed 65:2

copied 51:19

copies 21:22 62:3,5

copy 21:17,20

correct 59:9

council 2:22 11:17

11:19

councilmen 11:24

counsel 1:18,19 3:13

25:8 26:7 31:5

38:21 65:10

country 3:24 12:14

22:6 24:7

counts 21:13

county 69:2

couple 30:19 41:12

41:13 45:14 59:17

course 21:11 42:2

46:18 54:20 60:19

61:25 65:6

court 1:22 3:20 11:4

16:19 20:1 29:6,6

33:3 36:11 37:22

40:9 69:6

courts 10:10 28:14

33:5 40:19

cover 4:11,11

covering 45:1

covers 4:14

cram 56:7

create 18:16 24:24

32:10 47:25

creative 65:22 66:2

creek 16:14

crime 21:3

criminal 7:21

crit 27:17 50:1

criteria 7:13,14 8:7

18:10,12,14,15 19:6

19:11 30:4

cumulative 30:19

current 15:20 18:20

23:17 34:15 46:16

52:6 54:23

currently 8:3 17:20

23:10 46:1 50:22

cut 18:8 36:22

d

darn 21:20

date 14:18 22:10

49:3,22 56:3 66:3

david 11:22 41:9

day 2:10 17:7 21:21

45:2 48:13 50:15,17

50:17 57:16 67:23

68:8

days 14:25 20:15

39:24 50:19

deadline 56:3

deal 37:2 39:14 41:6

65:6 67:16

dealing 36:13 65:5

debate 52:24

debt 34:8,11 35:3,19

35:21,24 36:2,6

41:16,25

decide 28:15 33:5

47:4

decision 15:17 16:24

27:17 32:23 64:21

decisions 33:23 35:7

55:4 60:6 64:25

declarations 55:12

dedicated 63:11

defend 17:1 19:25

define 10:1 28:7

defined 10:2

defines 32:19 40:14

defining 9:17 10:3

28:1

definition 10:4,7

28:9 38:14

definitions 10:1

28:7

degree 30:5

deliberating 42:13

deliver 21:22

demand 21:21

demanding 13:8

depend 36:17

dependent 62:25

depending 47:6

deprive 36:20

derived 24:20

described 22:3

designated 64:17

detail 10:15

detailed 49:13

determination 10:8

15:6,7

determined 27:4

40:17

development 7:2

31:19 51:11

dialogue 28:24

differ 27:9

differences 27:13,14

[concern - differences] Page 4

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
different 28:11

32:17 51:25 65:5,7

65:7,14,19,23

differing 28:22

difficult 24:18 43:12

67:22

difficulties 19:17

difficulty 19:16

digital 67:25

direct 27:18

direction 33:8

directly 14:6

directory 67:13

disadvantage 62:21

disapprovals 31:2

discuss 10:15 66:6

discussed 51:16

64:2 65:21

discussion 4:22,23

10:20,21 12:2 16:6

16:24 22:6,17,18,21

22:25 28:4 44:8,22

discussions 3:25

22:16 48:25 49:14

53:24 55:11 64:1,13

dishonest 7:21

dispute 39:15

distinct 62:21 65:6

documents 32:5,8

32:14 33:19 38:24

46:12 47:24 52:11

52:13,14,17 58:22

doing 16:11 19:3

20:25 32:1 35:1

39:1 46:6 48:7

51:20,21,23

dollar 35:25

donald 34:7

downturn 34:24

draft 58:20

drafted 6:20 46:2

drop 21:15,19 57:5

57:6,15

drops 57:15

du 31:7

dual 62:1

due 33:22

duluth 31:8

duplicated 17:21

duplication 9:11

duplicative 5:9 23:7

duplicity 17:23

e

e 66:20

earlier 2:10 10:12

50:18

early 12:6 37:9

44:18,23 68:2

easy 15:10

ebona 29:15,16

echo 1:18 4:8 24:2

30:16 44:25

economic 34:16,24

35:17

economically 7:20

economy 35:14

41:25

educated 54:24

effect 28:19 30:19

31:24 40:4 41:4

effective 7:17 49:3

effectively 9:7,8

25:3

efficient 60:17

effort 60:1

efforts 59:15 60:10

either 37:21 41:18

51:2 61:22

elaine 67:15

elected 55:14,21

57:24

electronic 67:25

employees 7:25 8:12

8:14,24

encourage 27:6

enforcement 8:1 9:1

24:21

engage 23:23 30:14

enhancing 43:6

enjoying 68:3

enormous 53:15

entire 2:6

entirely 15:21

entities 28:17 30:15

entity 42:10

environment 34:16

40:25

environments 35:17

envision 37:11,12

equipment 67:25

especially 19:20

40:13 64:5

evaluate 56:4

everybody 35:21,25

40:23 52:5 66:17

everybody's 52:9

evidence 8:11,17

exact 28:19

examination 13:6,9

34:13

examine 33:19

example 67:12,14

examples 38:2,18

exceed 23:21

excess 12:20

exclusivity 31:15

excuse 29:7

execution 39:13

exemption 22:14

existing 23:5 35:3

expand 6:22

expect 14:19 53:13

expense 18:8

experience 20:18

28:10 47:12,12

53:11 55:22 56:25

60:16 62:22,25

63:14 64:9

expertise 60:14

64:18

experts 45:17 60:20

64:7 65:8

expiration 14:18

expires 69:15

explain 56:15

explanation 58:11

extend 36:1

extended 49:5

external 38:5 47:18

eyes 52:1 53:4

f

faca 65:11,14

face 50:17,17

faced 33:14 35:16

facilitator 47:15

facilitators 60:20

facilities 6:3 24:7

26:24,24 34:18,22

34:24 58:6

facility 20:15 21:5

21:20 23:23 31:20

facing 42:23

fact 14:21 21:1

32:13 67:5

factors 29:23 31:9

47:8

facts 32:16

fair 7:19

fairly 19:16

familiar 12:12 56:14

59:4

far 2:3 40:19 62:22

fargo 40:15,19

fashion 55:19

faster 60:9

faust 61:21

fbi 20:13

fe 3:10

fear 16:21 51:7

federal 16:19,23

19:4,4 20:1,16,19

26:1 65:11

fee 12:18,20,23 18:8

18:25 23:18,21 27:3

feed 63:24

[different - feed] Page 5

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
feedback 28:3,11,25

33:15 37:8,14 65:11

feel 2:3 4:16 43:4

63:19

fees 23:15 26:18,19

27:6

felipe 2:20

field 1:19

figure 24:18 33:8

file 15:13,16 16:17

16:25 19:24 21:15

34:7

fill 15:13 16:25

final 32:24 35:7

44:25 55:4 66:9

finalize 48:25

finalizing 46:11

finally 4:20 10:8

54:14

financial 26:15,16

27:8 28:20 35:10

42:9 51:9 57:23

67:15

financially 8:17

23:25 35:23,24

financing 10:6

28:18 30:7 40:12

44:3

find 7:16,22 8:3

34:25 43:21 60:22

finished 57:7,8,9

first 11:22 33:16,16

33:17 64:20

fiscal 7:20

fiscally 7:20

fit 52:6 63:9

five 4:12,13,14

10:22 12:10 17:7

31:23 53:14

fixed 34:14 35:6

42:4

flexibility 65:15

floated 22:25

floor 6:6,7 24:9 66:7

66:15

flow 13:2,23

flows 12:25

fluctuate 43:7

fluctuation 42:4

focus 15:19,24 60:6

focussed 17:6

folks 16:15 17:8

fond 31:7

food 50:20

force 16:8 54:9,11

56:2

foregoing 69:7

form 32:6 41:21

format 30:11 50:25

67:25

former 11:11 55:2

61:20,21 64:2

forth 7:14

fortunately 35:12

forum 59:8

forums 55:9

forward 10:17

25:17,24 32:25 33:9

49:15 56:6 61:19,23

62:3,5,15

foundation 59:24

four 21:4 33:24

50:19 52:23 53:14

frame 66:3

frequently 34:2

fresh 53:4

friday 51:2 61:3

front 41:18

frustrating 53:21

frustrations 60:25

full 15:16 16:25

17:4 19:24 39:23

fully 17:3

funding 8:15

future 22:11 51:8,10

g

gallegos 37:16,16

games 14:17 61:15

gaming 1:9 3:7 4:2

4:15,21 6:1,3,22 7:5

7:7,7,8,10,10,17,25

8:2,4,5,11,20 12:11

12:21 13:5,7,11,11

14:14,17 15:9 16:10

16:12,21 18:12

20:15 21:5 23:22

24:12 26:20,24,24

27:11,12 29:9 30:1

30:6 31:18 34:6

37:17 41:13,15

42:16 46:9 51:18,18

52:7,20 53:3 56:23

57:20,23 58:6 61:9

61:14,14 62:14,23

63:12 64:16 67:8

69:8

gaps 45:23

garcia 11:22,22 41:9

41:9

garners 25:3

gary 61:21

general 1:19 3:13

13:20 16:1 19:21

31:5 38:21 65:9,10

generally 10:15 36:3

52:25

george 2:17

getting 39:20 46:12

48:16 54:15

give 4:6 12:2,6

15:14,15 18:9,20

25:15 27:7 28:8

33:12,14 35:8 38:3

61:8 65:10,15 66:9

66:12

given 17:24 22:13

32:6 41:12 44:5

66:1

gives 23:4

go 2:8 4:21 14:9,22

23:13 32:14 35:20

42:5 43:22 44:16

46:4,4 49:15 50:4

50:19 55:24 61:11

63:3

goals 32:9

goes 39:3

going 2:8 3:21 4:4

4:11,11,13 12:3,10

14:20 18:7 21:6,7

24:13 34:22 35:16

37:1 38:4,16 39:25

44:19 45:1 50:5,7

51:10 52:24 53:5

56:2 57:11,13 60:9

61:5 63:17 66:23

gold 24:25

good 2:1 3:18 4:8

11:5,8,11,13,15,18

11:20 16:11,17 29:2

29:3,14,15,17,19,20

40:9 57:5 59:20,22

63:16

gotten 31:13 51:14

government 7:8

16:2,2 19:18,18

20:22,22

governments 31:17

governor 11:11,12

11:21,22,23 41:9

43:15 57:11

governors 11:24

grand 13:17

great 33:21 40:10

51:9

greater 5:16

greatly 60:19

green 14:10,12 18:3

18:4 20:9 26:11,14

34:5 50:9,9 56:16

58:21 61:2,6 62:7

62:11

gross 12:21 13:10

23:22 30:2

group 4:11,12,12,13

4:14 9:14 10:22

12:10 16:15 17:6

27:23 44:20 45:2,3

[feedback - group] Page 6

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
46:9,21 48:22 50:11

51:2 53:15 55:1,3,3

56:17,22 57:21

58:14 59:2,10,15,23

60:4,5 63:20,25

64:3 65:23,24 66:2

groups 2:11 4:11

25:25 51:3 55:7

growing 43:16

guess 42:23 46:19

guidance 32:7 40:21

43:5 47:24 52:11,13

52:14,16 58:22

guideline 38:1,16

guidelines 40:24

58:16

h

half 12:23 23:19,19

46:19 48:14 50:15

50:16 52:18 57:8,10

hall 51:17

hallmark 5:17

hand 10:6 56:12

69:11

happen 34:19,22

39:25 60:7

happened 53:11

happening 20:21

happens 40:11 47:6

hard 42:24 59:24

60:5

hardest 58:7

hat 3:16

hate 16:8 32:18

hawk 1:18 4:8 24:2

30:16 44:25

hear 9:13 24:4 26:6

26:11 28:4 41:7

heard 5:4,4,12,15,24

10:4,6 28:11 32:12

33:2,6 37:7 39:22

45:15,22 46:20

47:19 55:18 67:3

hearing 6:2 47:1

48:20

hearings 16:4 19:19

20:24

heartbeat 58:20

heavy 21:25

heck 57:2

held 69:9

help 27:7 28:16 32:2

39:18,19 45:20

helped 26:25

helpful 30:12 39:5

48:5 52:15

helps 36:10

hereunto 69:11

herrera 11:8,9

hesse 2:17,17

hi 29:9

high 5:14 30:2 42:1

hinton 11:13,13

history 7:4 15:12

30:21 46:24

hole 34:5

home 3:10 55:23

66:23 68:3

homer 61:20 62:9

honest 7:17,19

honor 13:24

hope 15:1 27:17

60:7 66:21

hopefully 44:17

55:18 60:3

hoping 2:9

hot 52:24

hotel 1:12

hour 57:8

hours 52:23 57:8,12

68:3

housing 55:9

huge 51:13

hybrid 6:4 24:8

i

i.e. 51:4 62:17

idea 48:8 60:23 66:2

ideas 6:12 18:1,2

22:25 39:11 47:10

64:11 65:6,22,22,23

identical 64:4

identification 41:20

identifies 33:10

identify 11:3 29:6

39:6

identifying 41:19

42:13

igra 8:5 9:24 14:6

26:17 28:6 34:5

ii 4:15 5:1,2 6:1,3,6

6:8 12:11,16 13:5,7

13:11 14:14,17 15:9

16:10 22:1,2,4,6,7

23:17,22,24 24:6,8

24:13 27:11,12 45:3

45:3,4,12 47:7,11

48:10 49:4 51:12,18

51:18 53:3,22 56:20

57:25 62:22 63:2,9

63:12,12 64:3

iii 4:21 10:12,19

22:3 24:10,12,12

26:19,23,24 27:10

45:6 47:12 48:11

53:22 56:20 63:7,11

64:4

immunity 16:23

impact 22:10 23:15

23:16

impacted 38:6

imperative 18:9

implementation 8:9

import 22:10

important 2:11

21:23 48:15

incentive 6:13 23:17

23:24 26:16 27:8

incentives 23:14,25

inch 52:18

include 7:3 8:9

31:15,15,16,18

included 6:24 9:21

26:4 29:25

includes 7:15 13:5

46:6 48:23

including 31:1

50:18

incomplete 59:3

inconsistencies 42:7

increase 27:3

increasingly 44:6

indian 1:9 3:7 13:11

38:10,11 62:14 69:8

indicate 43:1

indicated 21:3

indication 21:10

indicator 8:7

indicators 8:8

individual 42:19

industry 45:25 46:7

51:4,5 53:4,18

57:17,21 64:7

infiltrated 21:3

influence 22:1 41:16

information 7:4

15:15 17:4,22 19:25

20:5 25:9 46:10

67:10,23

informational 50:11

initial 14:1 17:3,16

17:17,25 18:3,5,10

19:23 27:16 58:14

58:17

initially 11:2 26:20

27:5 54:11

input 18:21

inquire 16:4

inquiries 16:1

inquiry 4:24 9:16

20:24 45:10

insight 33:13

insisted 19:3

inspect 21:19

inspection 13:9

inspections 13:6

[group - inspections] Page 7

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
inspects 8:22

instance 24:11,13,15

institution 44:1

instructions 52:21

intend 48:24

intended 27:1

interaction 13:13

interest 4:17,19 8:16

9:15,18 10:1,2,5,9

27:24 31:14 32:13

32:20 33:4,11,20

34:10,14 35:1,3,6

35:11,18 36:13,16

36:17,20 40:3,8,14

41:2,5 51:9,13

57:23 59:14

interested 5:22 6:2,3

9:12 14:10 31:9

46:14 48:19

interests 28:1 31:1

43:7 63:1

interior 60:13 65:22

internal 4:21 7:9

38:5 45:4,12 47:5,7

52:4

internally 17:19

22:22 26:9 30:16

48:9 49:7

internet 34:17

interpretation 31:3

65:13,14,19

interpreted 30:9

interrelated 49:9

introduce 2:15 3:5

29:13

intrusive 14:1

investigates 7:24

8:23

investigation 7:25

9:1 67:12

investigations 13:8

investigator 1:19

involved 14:14 30:3

38:9

isaac 11:8

isleta 2:22 3:12

11:21

issuance 7:10

issue 9:14 10:13

16:18 26:17 30:17

31:5 32:3 33:8

35:23 37:7 42:2,13

43:4,9,13,17 46:22

49:6 56:1 60:2

67:11

issued 20:12 30:22

30:22,24 31:6,7

33:16,18,21

issues 10:18 19:20

24:2 26:12 32:18

35:12 36:3 37:6

41:16,18 42:11,23

43:6 44:2 46:16

48:2,15 49:8 60:16

67:7

issuing 31:11

items 48:23

j

january 61:10

jennifer 1:19 39:21

jersey 54:2

jess 17:12 18:3 20:2

22:3,24 27:21 37:5

37:18 39:3 50:9

56:11 61:4

job 1:24 16:11

join 2:4,5 11:2

joined 3:3

joining 3:19 11:25

12:9

joint 17:5

joseph 2:21

journey 59:5

judge 3:12

july 1:11

justification 17:1

18:10

justified 15:14,18

justify 18:8

k

karen 1:21 69:5,14

keep 21:12 26:15

39:1 56:5 63:11

kept 45:25

key 8:14 15:25

kind 3:16 13:24,24

20:20 21:9 25:13,23

26:8 28:7 30:23

41:17 43:1 44:7

45:5 46:24 47:9

48:19 52:22,24

58:19 60:11 63:10

63:18

kinds 59:18

kino 11:5

klc 1:25

knew 54:6

know 4:1 5:6,22,24

6:5,10 9:5 12:3,12

12:13 14:10,13 15:5

15:7 17:19 18:24

19:3,13 21:1,25

22:2,5 25:6,13,19

25:22 26:3,5,15

27:13 28:9,12 29:5

31:23 32:3 33:10

35:4,12 38:15,25

39:11,12,13,22,24

40:16,25 41:12

42:11,25,25 43:12

43:16 45:21,22

48:23 49:25 50:1

53:6 54:2,5 55:10

57:25 59:4,5,12

60:12 63:3,12,14,15

63:21 64:8,9 65:8

65:23,25 66:1,5,10

66:20 67:11,13,15

67:17,22

knowing 42:22 60:3

knowledge 41:1,1

l

lac 31:7

lack 63:14

lael 1:18 4:4 10:25

12:17 13:3 22:21

27:24 33:15 34:3

44:20,24 49:2

laguna 11:19

lance 1:19 2:7 3:1

land 13:12

language 28:8

large 15:8 16:10

58:8

las 50:18

lasted 50:15

late 41:6

latonia 29:21

law 20:17 65:11,16

lawyer 3:15

lawyers 3:17 33:14

50:20,22 57:1 58:2

lay 27:19

leader 2:5 55:15

leaders 55:22 57:24

leadership 4:2 12:5

66:11

leads 64:11,11

learning 63:3

lease 31:20

leave 3:17 12:6 14:8

54:19,22

leaving 16:24

led 53:12

lee 1:21 69:5,14

left 10:9 28:14

legal 27:13 36:8

58:4

legwork 64:25

lenders 35:20 40:23

lending 43:25

lengthy 15:12 58:17

64:2

[inspects - lengthy] Page 8

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
lessen 24:16 25:5

letters 33:16,25

level 14:24 23:12,12

39:18

levels 28:11

leverage 40:7,11

license 69:15

licenses 7:10,24 8:25

licensing 8:23

lieu 23:3

lieutenant 11:21,23

43:14

life 3:9

limit 10:7

limited 64:15

limits 59:12 65:16

line 32:19 34:23

lines 41:11

link 61:8

links 61:19

list 18:16 23:2 25:8

61:16

listening 67:2

lists 9:3

literally 50:20

litigation 33:22

39:16

little 2:10 25:1 33:12

45:6,8 62:21 67:9

live 16:21

local 25:15 31:17

location 21:4 35:9

long 9:2 15:5,7

29:18 37:8

longer 13:12 36:2,22

look 23:10 25:8,8

26:7 30:18 31:24

32:4,21 37:7 38:3

38:17 40:7 49:19,20

52:1 60:24 64:12

65:10

looked 9:4,4 29:25

30:17,21 59:21

looking 5:20 30:8

31:9 32:11 38:1

39:11 41:14 42:10

42:13 46:14 47:21

47:22,23 58:11 63:4

looks 6:11 8:8 33:13

lot 5:4 12:3 16:6

18:21,21 21:23

23:23 34:9 37:7

40:19 46:3 50:3

56:4,19,21 58:21

59:24 60:15 64:22

67:3

lots 55:10

lucero 2:21,21

luckily 40:21

lunchtime 44:22

lytton 16:13

m

machines 6:6,7 24:8

24:10

mail 66:20

maintained 5:14

27:15

making 34:25 53:8

55:4,4 60:6,6

manage 65:24

manageable 23:12

management 8:13

16:12 26:22 28:17

31:1,19 40:17,22

41:20 43:20 57:18

67:11

manner 21:2 30:13

60:17

manny 37:16

manufacturers

64:14

mark 29:9 51:16

market 28:20 40:5

40:12,21 41:4 51:25

marshal 20:17

material 52:19 56:4

58:18,21

materials 7:11

matter 32:20 69:9

matthew 61:8

mean 16:12 18:8

34:21 41:12 42:5,11

42:22,25 43:8,12

54:1 62:22 63:3,17

means 7:1 31:14,25

33:11 35:18 54:5,6

54:7 68:2

meant 54:20

mechanism 36:4

41:21

mechanisms 34:11

36:5

meet 18:10,12,13,15

18:18 19:6 34:6

58:4,8

meeting 16:5 19:11

21:16 51:6,7,8

54:15,19

meetings 50:17

54:16

member 3:7 11:19

members 1:17 47:13

mentioned 12:17

13:3 20:11 22:24

37:24

mess 57:2

messing 38:8

mexico 1:14,21,23

41:14 42:15 43:9,11

62:20 69:1,6,9,16

mexico's 14:13

microphone 44:19

56:12

mics 6:21 7:2 8:9,10

10:13,15,19 25:11

25:11 44:13 45:6,22

46:1,16 48:10,11,15

48:18 49:4,24 50:2

51:6,13,19 52:9,14

53:13 58:20,22

59:16,21 63:2 64:5

mind 42:16 43:3

56:5

mindful 39:19

minimal 45:4

minimum 45:12

47:5,7 52:4

mississippi 20:11

mixed 24:9

modern 53:9

modifications 52:5

monday 51:2 61:3

62:7,8

monetary 12:25

money 35:1,2,15,17

40:20 53:16 60:21

monitoring 8:24

13:5

monitors 7:24 8:20

8:21

month 33:16 50:18

months 33:17 50:14

50:25 55:25 60:10

morgan 61:9

morning 2:1 3:18

4:5,7,8,10,13,23

10:23 11:5,8,11,13

11:15,18,20 29:2,3

29:14,15,17,19,20

37:10 45:2

mountain 11:6,14

11:16

mountains 39:23

move 32:25 33:9

55:22 60:8

moved 45:24 58:21

61:17

moving 52:15

multimedia 61:15

myron 2:23

n

naga 61:25 62:3,5

name 3:6 11:5,15

29:15,21

names 61:23

nation 3:8 15:9

29:22 61:10

[lessen - nation] Page 9

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
national 1:9 3:7

62:13 67:8 69:8

navajo 29:22

near 19:4

necessarily 13:22

43:20 60:21

necessitating 34:3

need 4:3,7 5:13,18

9:3 17:25 19:4,20

23:13 27:8 34:3

38:17 39:9 45:15,23

47:18 51:24 52:1

53:14 57:16 62:17

64:6,10

needed 28:15

needs 3:2 15:14 17:4

19:15,25 53:1,2

60:7 64:4 65:6

negotiate 14:19

negotiations 28:17

30:15

negotiators 60:20

net 7:7 30:2 32:1

nevada 54:3

never 25:21 42:12

new 1:14,21,23

14:13 25:6 41:13

42:15 43:8,11 47:23

53:13 54:2 62:17,20

69:1,6,9,16

nice 29:4

nigc 3:14 7:2,16,22

8:3,5,10 9:19 13:4

14:23 15:1,23,24

16:8,16 18:20,20

19:10,22 20:5,7,9

20:22 27:16,19

30:24 42:23 53:16

53:25 55:3,17 56:18

58:14 61:21,21

63:21

nigc's 36:10 54:8

nine 46:19

nj340550 1:24

noi 27:25

nominee 13:17

non 25:25 38:11

norman 29:2,3,8,9

51:16 62:6,9

northwest 69:16

notice 4:24 9:16

25:15 31:7,11 45:10

november 4:25

novs 28:8 31:6

number 6:5 15:25

16:10 18:13,14,15

25:10 30:21 32:12

33:21 35:6 36:8,11

43:17 45:7 51:12

66:7

numbers 14:19

34:18 43:22 61:24

nw 1:22

o

obligation 24:17

36:19 64:24 65:17

observed 54:10

obtain 13:22

obtained 5:6,7

12:22,24 23:20

obtaining 5:1,2 6:17

obviously 14:2

62:24 63:5

occurred 33:22

39:15 61:1

occurring 16:22

63:10

occurs 13:4 34:1

october 49:4

offer 12:6 28:10

office 1:19 31:4 34:2

61:8 65:9

officially 47:17

officials 8:13

ogc 39:1,22 40:3,6

oh 26:13 29:8,18

okay 43:1 44:25

47:3

oklahoma 3:8 14:15

14:19 16:14 21:6

old 25:10

once 15:14,22 18:18

19:3 27:3 37:14,19

39:9 57:4 59:5 65:1

67:16

onerous 6:19

ones 60:24

ongoing 49:1

online 61:5

open 14:2,5,8 28:4

44:9 57:12 66:6

operate 35:22

operation 7:7,9,19

7:19 8:17 24:12

31:18 35:11,22

47:11 63:13

operational 52:7

58:2

operations 6:7,23

7:5 34:6 52:6 53:23

54:6 56:25 57:25

64:16 65:7

operators 47:11

63:7

opinion 42:8

opinions 27:14 28:8

28:22 30:22,25,25

36:9

opportunities 44:3

opportunity 4:6

12:2,7 13:15,18

33:2 50:8 66:10,12

66:17

opposed 43:5

opposite 63:10

order 7:14 47:18

ordinance 7:1 8:2

ordinances 8:6

oregon 13:17

organized 21:3

originated 53:23

ortiz 2:19,19

ought 27:3 35:4

55:7,12 62:7

outlining 9:18

outweigh 17:15

outweighed 5:6

13:23

overkill 20:19

overlap 45:6

oversight 13:4 19:4

overview 4:5 10:22

overwhelming 18:7

26:22

owned 38:11,11

owner 38:15

ownership 38:9

p

pace 55:20

pages 18:13,14,16

69:7

paid 36:1 53:16

paper 24:25 39:23

papers 13:10

part 7:12 12:10

13:12 19:8 20:7

50:1,10 57:17 62:23

63:12 66:7,8

participants 61:15

61:15

participate 15:9

16:11 47:16 51:6,23

62:16

participated 18:23

51:2 54:24 55:9

56:7 57:25 58:3

59:9

participates 59:13

participating 14:25

53:3

participation 47:18

58:9

particular 9:14

12:13,15 14:3 26:3

46:22

[national - particular] Page 10

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
particularly 5:10

parts 50:2

party 16:18 30:1,3,6

41:24 42:19,20

pass 26:25 42:18

passed 19:1

paying 35:1,3

pending 59:16

people 2:2 3:3 11:2

18:22 34:20 46:7

51:4,5 52:7,7 54:6

56:20 57:3,16,18,19

57:21 58:2,10 59:1

59:4 60:13 61:16,22

62:12 64:13,16

percent 12:20 14:17

23:22 31:25 34:17

36:18 42:6,6,6

percentage 30:1,2

35:22 38:8 57:15

percentages 9:23,24

38:10,12

performing 44:2

performs 8:22

period 35:1 36:2

38:15

permanent 8:14

person 54:18 62:11

perspective 41:15

pertains 27:11,12

petition 6:24 7:3

25:12,14,17

phone 61:24

photocopying 13:9

piece 15:10 24:25

52:16

place 6:21 34:19

39:5,6 45:14

places 35:11

please 2:2,16 11:3

26:11 32:2 38:23

66:20 68:5

pleasure 3:11

plethora 7:11

plus 19:12

poarch 16:13

pockets 35:15

point 15:17 19:11

20:8 26:16 34:14

35:4,5 36:7 39:6,16

57:13

pointed 27:17,18,24

34:3 49:3

pojoaque 3:13

policy 4:19 8:16

32:7

pose 63:25

position 34:25 35:10

36:10

possibility 4:18

possible 34:15 40:4

46:7 47:20 52:10

65:25

post 25:15

potential 4:18 43:19

powerpoint 49:2

premises 8:22 13:6

presented 3:21

president 2:21

pressure 54:14

pretty 6:19 66:22

prevent 39:20

previous 25:20

54:11 56:16 60:24

63:21 65:20

primary 8:13 10:3

23:24

print 52:18

prior 3:13 39:12,12

60:10

privilege 3:11

probably 21:14

33:22 39:21 61:16

63:19

problem 18:11 19:7

29:20

problems 37:1 51:7

51:7

proceed 45:11

proceedings 68:7

69:8

process 5:1,5 6:24

9:8,10,18 13:25

14:22 26:2 28:2

32:21 37:4,4,8,12

37:13 39:4,7,18

46:5,11 49:23 50:1

59:19 61:1

processes 32:10

33:9

product 17:9 47:20

47:21 51:1,1 52:25

53:1 58:13,14,17

59:1,3,5,11,15 61:2

products 60:4 61:17

professional 1:22

3:9

profit 32:1

profitability 35:9

profitable 51:12

projections 34:6

promulgates 8:21

proper 39:9,16

properly 20:25 65:3

property 42:18

proposals 45:7

proposed 28:23

50:12 59:21

proprietary 4:17,19

9:15,17 10:1,2,5,9

27:24 28:1 30:25

31:14 32:13,19

33:11,20 34:10,14

35:5,18 36:13,16,20

40:2,8,14 41:2,5

43:7

proprietorship 38:7

38:13,14 41:17

42:14,24

propriety 33:3

36:17

prosecution 8:1

protect 62:25

proud 17:10

prove 18:13,14,16

provide 9:21 10:5

14:6 28:2

provided 65:20

provides 9:22

providing 9:18 20:5

44:3

provision 26:3

prudent 35:23,25

public 22:16 25:15

25:21 48:24

pueblo 2:19,23 3:11

3:13 11:9,12,18,23

37:16 41:9

pueblos 3:10

pull 49:8,9

pulled 54:2

purpose 5:11

pursue 6:9 50:5

pursuing 5:23

put 3:23 4:24 6:21

22:7 25:17,21,21

30:12,13 35:10 39:5

39:5 40:22 45:14

49:2,19 51:4 54:4

54:14 56:2 58:25

59:6,6 60:2 63:20

64:13,20 65:23 66:6

puts 15:21 52:22

putting 37:19 38:24

48:11 50:12 57:22

64:10

q

quarter 12:20 23:21

question 15:24 39:3

39:4 49:17,21 63:25

questions 5:21 18:6

45:19 47:2,3 54:21

54:21 64:11,11 66:5

66:7

quick 24:5 44:12

[particularly - quick] Page 11

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
quickly 64:21

quite 9:2 13:15 28:3

29:24 34:2 59:25

63:9

r

raided 20:13

rainbow 28:21

raised 3:9

ramos 11:12

rate 42:4

rates 42:5

reach 55:13

reading 52:21

reads 52:19

real 52:15

really 6:22 13:24

16:7 17:5 19:2

21:23 24:3,4 26:8

28:7 34:21 38:8

41:7 45:25 51:24

53:21 57:5 58:6

59:22 60:22 65:13

67:17

reason 18:22 19:10

26:21 43:22 44:7,7

reasonable 55:19

reasons 28:23

receive 7:15

received 9:6,20

31:25 46:18

receiving 61:17

recess 44:15

recitation 19:19

recognition 5:15

recognize 48:3

record 3:21 29:6

recordings 3:22

recordkeeping 7:9

records 13:10

reduced 23:11

reduces 23:18

reduction 12:18

13:3 18:25 26:18

27:4

redundancy 9:11

refer 4:1

reference 30:14

36:12

referenced 25:11

reg 5:7 8:8 53:17

54:1

regard 60:5

regarding 42:24

regards 60:25

region 47:10,10

regions 65:5

regs 8:3 34:9 36:25

44:9 54:3,3 57:4,5,9

57:13

regular 21:11 56:16

regulate 12:16

regulated 5:25

12:19 20:5,21 47:11

regulating 5:16 6:14

13:14 19:13 23:15

27:4

regulation 4:14,16

4:16,18 5:2,3,17,23

6:1,9,15,18 7:15 9:2

9:7,10,17,22 12:11

12:13,15 13:1,21

14:3,22 15:4,10,21

15:25 17:20 18:18

18:25 19:8 20:10,12

20:25 21:7 22:8,23

23:10 25:2,8 26:18

27:2,3 28:1 30:11

32:7,19 37:19,19

43:5,6

regulations 4:15

6:20 8:2,5,6,21 9:15

10:23 15:23 19:5

27:12 35:7 47:23

49:15 53:22 57:2

regulators 8:16

66:12

regulatory 7:6 8:15

8:20 14:24 15:20

24:14 49:10 56:17

56:22

reiterate 21:25 22:4

reiterated 27:16

rejected 53:5

relating 31:18

relations 7:10

relationship 42:22

released 51:1

relented 57:13

relief 3:16

relying 64:8

remainder 49:11

remains 34:10

remark 63:6

remarks 67:6

reminded 22:21

38:20

remove 9:10

reopen 49:21

repeated 67:3

replace 64:22,23

replacements 50:13

report 4:1 21:13

22:24,24 23:3

reported 1:21

reporter 3:2,20 11:4

29:7 69:4,6

reporting 1:22 5:10

6:15 15:20,23 19:21

25:5

reports 19:7 21:11

51:5

represent 53:25

64:17

representation

47:14

representative 46:7

55:16

representatives

16:16 47:13 51:11

55:17 61:12

represented 25:19

62:9

representing 11:9

reputation 7:18

request 9:19,23

15:25 28:2 34:2

39:9

requested 7:11 62:4

requests 30:18

38:20

require 17:18 18:20

18:21 23:1

required 18:19

39:14

requirement 7:16

15:13 18:18 33:20

requirements 5:8,11

6:15,17 7:3 8:11

15:14,22 16:5 18:5

19:21,23 21:16,19

22:15 23:5 24:14

48:17,17 58:4,5

requires 22:23

65:11

requiring 12:4

resolution 20:23

48:25

resolved 60:17

resolves 46:15

resources 39:25

60:18,23

respecting 13:10

respects 49:9

respond 45:20 49:22

54:1

responded 49:18,22

response 32:22 34:4

54:4

responsibility 6:13

responsible 20:7

responsive 23:12

rest 4:10 45:2,19

restrict 51:10

restrictive 52:2

restructure 36:23

result 49:6

resumes 23:2

[quickly - resumes] Page 12

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
revamp 17:6

revenue 12:21 13:11

30:2 31:15

revenues 7:7,18,24

23:22 30:1

reverse 28:19

review 5:1 9:19,22

28:2 37:15 38:6,23

49:10 58:15

reviewed 32:8 53:2

reviews 32:15

revise 57:13

revising 46:5

revisions 59:16

rid 37:21

right 2:8 3:16 12:4

12:19 13:20 22:22

23:21,22 36:8 44:12

48:20 50:6 63:4,9

64:7,13 66:9

risk 30:3

road 31:23 38:21

41:23

rock 2:18

rocket 61:13,14

romero 11:11,12

ronde 13:17

room 45:17 50:23

52:5 54:14,20,22

route 1:12

routine 13:13

rpr 1:21 69:5,14

rule 32:20

rulemaking 55:9

rules 18:20 35:6

58:7 63:8

running 54:19 55:3

runs 58:1

s

safe 7:19 66:23 68:5

san 2:19

santa 3:10

sat 54:9 60:13

satisfied 20:23

satisfy 7:14

saying 21:8 37:5

38:1,16 39:23 40:7

says 25:1 66:2

scenario 20:4 41:15

scenarios 43:2

schader 2:23,23

schedule 17:8

scrutinize 21:23

seat 25:24

second 11:21

secondary 19:8

52:16

seconds 57:14

see 3:24 11:1 14:3

16:4 18:3,5,6 28:25

29:4 30:10 31:22

32:15 33:16 36:25

38:6 44:21 47:1

59:10

seeing 43:22 46:14

59:14

selected 16:9 56:19

56:19

selecting 47:9

self 4:14,16 5:2,3,7

5:16,17,23,25 6:1,9

6:14,15,18,18 7:15

12:11,16,19 13:1,14

14:22 15:4,10,25

18:18,25 19:13 20:5

20:10,12,21,25 21:7

23:15 25:18 26:18

27:2,3,4

sell 42:17

send 21:17 26:8

67:14,15

sense 56:21 64:3

sensitive 45:1

sent 21:12 45:10

58:14,15 61:12,15

separate 48:12 50:2

separately 49:11

series 16:4

serve 55:15

servers 20:14,15

service 1:22

serving 3:11 63:7

set 7:14 9:22 16:3

23:11 37:20 47:23

51:25 53:4 57:4

58:20 69:11

sets 7:12

seven 40:6

shape 36:10

share 14:1 22:12

30:1 58:18,25 59:11

67:10

shared 27:15

shares 31:15

short 38:25

shortest 65:25

shot 46:21

show 21:1 43:19

shut 34:21

side 33:6 43:8 54:25

67:22

sides 55:18

significant 31:3

signs 25:1 36:18

simple 52:10

simply 36:22

single 50:23

siow 11:18,18

sit 2:2 3:2 16:16

54:13 65:1

situation 35:8,19,20

41:12,14,25 42:12

situations 32:16

43:2

six 33:17 38:23 40:5

50:14,24

size 47:11 65:5

sized 65:7,7

sleep 52:22

slide 10:11

slight 36:12

small 43:23 66:4

sole 4:19 9:15,17

10:1,2,4,9 27:24

28:1 30:25 31:14

32:13,19 33:3,11,19

34:10,13 35:5,17

36:15,16,20 38:7,12

38:14 40:2,8,14

41:1,5,16 42:14,24

43:7

solely 20:6

somebody 49:22

53:21 59:9

someplace 53:23

something's 14:23

soon 66:22

sorry 29:19

sort 5:20 9:4 24:7

31:2 33:6 44:25

47:21 57:16 63:1,2

67:4

sought 12:13

sound 7:20

sources 30:7

sovereign 16:23

sovereignty 5:17

speak 39:21

specific 32:13 43:13

specifically 33:18

64:17

specificity 33:10

spend 10:23 13:15

13:18 56:24 67:2

spent 3:9 50:19

53:15

squeeze 53:22

stability 10:5

stable 8:14,18

staff 12:8 30:23

stand 21:22 24:6

standard 46:13

standards 5:14 8:24

8:24 45:4,5,12,13

45:13,18 46:17 47:5

47:6,8 48:11,18

[revamp - standards] Page 13

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
51:6,9 52:4 53:10

star 24:25

start 4:13 12:10

14:20 38:8 50:19

68:2

started 2:9 44:17

54:15

state 12:4 14:18

31:17 41:13 42:15

43:8,11 69:1,6

stated 69:10

statement 12:5,8

statements 4:6

27:18 42:9 48:24

67:6,16

states 35:15

statute 28:12 34:10

statutory 7:16

stay 2:5 65:15

steffani 1:18 3:6

stereo 52:21

stereos 52:19

stone 37:20

stopped 49:12 59:17

stories 39:22

streamline 9:10

23:7 37:4,25

street 1:22 69:16

strikes 54:17

stringent 8:10,13

58:6

strong 19:23

structure 24:19

structuring 38:4

struggling 24:3 26:9

stuck 49:16

stuff 39:20 56:20

stutter 4:17

style 50:25

subject 48:6

subjective 30:4

submission 5:8 6:17

7:1 23:1

submissions 56:18

submit 22:23 46:10

66:21

submittal 7:4

submitted 9:3 26:22

26:23 32:22

submitting 25:14

substantive 12:1

37:6,7

sue 26:1

suffice 23:3

suggest 55:6

suggested 28:13

30:11 53:5

suggesting 56:8

suggestion 22:13

suggestions 55:5,7

suitability 8:11

suite 1:22

summarize 30:13

support 19:23 67:24

sure 5:13 29:8 32:4

40:7 47:19 50:24

55:18 61:25 62:6,6

62:14 65:2 66:16

67:3

surprising 30:23

survey 24:5

sw 1:13

swift 55:19,19

system 7:9 8:21,23

systems 7:8,23 8:25

t

table 2:2 25:24 65:1

66:14

tac 49:19 55:16 60:2

60:8,23 63:8,21

64:10,12,20,25

tacs 55:24

take 5:19 14:5 15:3

17:23 21:7 25:8

30:18 32:4 34:17,18

40:7 44:12 48:20

53:21 55:24,25 60:3

taken 31:24 42:21

52:3 57:14

takes 34:20 35:25

37:8 40:9

talk 12:8 26:1,7 40:2

45:8 60:8

talked 17:19 48:13

50:6 60:15

talking 10:14,23

26:5,15 42:3,3,4,4

46:8 63:15 65:22

tangible 24:24

task 16:8 54:8,11,25

55:7 56:2

tasking 62:2

tax 43:9

tcrg 56:14,14

technical 45:5,13,13

45:18 46:17 47:5

48:4,11,16,17,18

56:4

technology 45:24

67:23

tell 7:13 14:23 51:3

57:11

term 28:7 30:8

terminated 53:24

terms 30:5 41:19,22

terribly 21:17

testimony 69:11

tesuque 11:9,12

37:17

thank 3:4,18 10:25

11:7,10,25 12:9,9

17:11,12 20:2 26:13

27:20,21 38:19 41:8

43:14 50:9 56:10,11

58:12 61:4 63:23

67:1,19 68:1,5

thanks 4:8

theresa 2:19

thick 52:18

thing 13:24 21:20

51:23 52:22 55:21

63:2,2,6 64:19 67:4

67:4

things 6:24 9:3 12:3

13:12 16:9 23:6

25:10,13 29:25 30:8

32:11 37:9,24,25

39:17 40:3 44:4

45:24 48:13 50:24

51:14 53:7 54:18

55:12,22,23 58:7

59:20,22 67:17

think 2:25 5:23 6:19

10:14 16:7,9 17:5,7

18:11,16,17 20:20

23:9 24:5 25:7 29:1

36:7,25 37:9,22

38:7,9,15 39:17

41:4,5,17,21 42:8

42:20 43:2,10 52:25

56:1 62:8,24 65:14

66:18

thinking 10:13

41:11 48:9 60:11

third 1:22 16:18

30:1,3,6 41:24

42:19,19 69:16

thoroughly 41:18

thought 22:12 57:4

thoughts 9:13 17:13

17:14 22:19 23:8

49:23 52:9 65:4,8

66:20

three 4:12 6:6 17:7

18:15 21:4 31:6

44:20 45:3,3 50:16

50:22 52:23 54:17

54:18 57:8,12 62:12

throat 56:8

throwing 45:5

thrown 48:9

time 2:6 12:4 13:16

13:18 14:13 17:9

20:19 21:20 22:14

33:17 34:15 35:5

36:2,9,20 38:11

39:8 40:1 46:2 50:4

[standards - time] Page 14

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
53:16 54:10 64:22

65:12,25 66:1,3,15

66:19 67:2,18 68:6

timelines 38:25 39:2

times 32:5 50:16

55:10

timothy 11:13

tinker 28:13

tlingit 29:16

today 2:9,12,13 3:4

3:21 4:10 5:7 10:21

23:24 29:12 36:16

today's 34:15

told 54:17

tony 15:1 27:17

tool 4:3

topic 16:7 27:23

44:8

topics 16:1 44:18

60:14

torches 40:15

torino 11:5,6

toss 23:9

tossed 22:15

total 33:21

track 21:2 49:10

53:1

tracks 48:12

trade 3:15

train 34:20 49:11

transaction 30:4

transcribed 3:23

transcript 66:22

69:8

transparency 32:10

67:24

transparent 67:9,21

travel 66:23

traveled 29:18

travels 68:5

trend 43:24

trends 43:23

tribal 1:10 2:4,22

5:17 8:15,19 10:7

11:16,19 16:8 27:2

42:18 46:9,21,21,23

47:4,22,25 48:1,4

54:25 55:15,21

56:16,17,22,23,25

57:23,24 58:6,9

63:7

tribe 7:17,23 9:19

11:6,14,16 15:22

16:22 18:17 20:10

20:21 25:15,19 30:6

32:25 34:25 35:2

36:15 39:7,10,16,22

40:5,9,10 41:15,23

42:10,16 43:24,25

57:11 58:1 63:15

64:17

tribe's 8:5 36:12,19

52:4

tribes 3:23 4:20,25

5:7,16,18,22,24 6:2

6:4,5,14,22 7:13,13

9:5,12,23 10:6

12:16,19,22,24

13:13,14,16 14:5,7

14:16,21 15:8 16:10

19:9,10,12 21:23

22:7,23 23:15,20

24:5,24 25:4 28:2

28:12 30:14,18

31:16,22 32:6,12,21

34:4 35:10 37:14

38:3,16,22,24 39:12

39:18,20 40:11,23

41:6,13,13 43:10

44:1,2 46:20 47:1

47:16 48:6,9 49:17

50:6 51:6,12,17,21

52:13 56:24 59:25

62:20 63:1 64:18,24

65:7,18

tried 52:9 53:20

true 42:22 69:7

trump 34:7

trust 63:18

try 23:6 28:8 35:15

39:1 44:8

trying 15:2 33:8

37:8 40:12 42:17

53:9,21 56:7 60:22

tunnel 51:24 53:6

turn 4:4 44:19 50:7

turned 26:14

turns 35:14,14

twice 49:5

two 4:11 5:7 9:5

13:14 14:21 18:14

20:14,15 21:4 31:6

33:24 36:17 39:24

48:23 49:8 55:17

60:4

type 43:18 46:24

55:16

types 6:8 44:3 64:14

u

ultimately 64:24

undermined 5:11

understand 2:6

16:17,20 17:3,16

20:16 34:22 37:5

46:10 54:5 59:22

60:25 65:21

understanding 59:8

59:20

undertaken 59:25

underway 44:22

universe 6:11

unwieldy 47:15

update 53:10

updated 45:23

53:13 67:24

updates 45:15 56:8

updating 45:11 46:6

47:7

use 7:7 18:9 28:16

38:10,12 40:7 47:4

47:15 60:4 67:14

useful 53:19

utilize 14:4

utilized 9:7,8 25:3

v

vallo 1:19

valuable 66:16

van 29:2,3,8,9 51:16

62:6,9

variances 51:14

53:8

various 30:15

vary 32:16

varying 42:5

vegas 50:18

vendor 8:25 36:21

vendors 51:8,8

ventured 43:10

venturing 51:25

versus 41:20

vice 1:18 2:1,21 3:1

3:6 10:25 11:7,10

11:14,24 17:12 20:2

21:24 23:16 27:21

29:4,11,17,23 33:12

37:3 38:19 43:14

44:16 48:20,22

56:11 58:12,23 61:4

61:21 62:17 63:23

67:19

victims 53:6

violate 65:17

violates 35:5 40:8

violation 31:7,12

33:19 43:19

violations 8:1

virgil 11:18

virtually 18:19

vision 51:24 53:6

voices 47:19

void 40:18,20

volume 33:15 51:21

voluminous 29:24

52:12,13,17

volunteers 56:23

[time - volunteers] Page 15

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040
w

wagers 21:2

wait 39:15

walk 44:20

want 12:5,6,7 17:23

21:22,24 22:4,12

25:21 37:23 38:8,10

40:6 49:21 52:2

59:3 65:2,2 66:6,9

66:14,16,21,24

wanted 12:2 14:2

21:21 28:24 46:4,4

53:18 56:19 63:25

66:5,13 67:1

wanting 14:13

wants 2:5 15:24

28:10 49:22 59:9

ward 1:19 40:2

washington 22:13

watch 57:6

way 13:21 14:4 17:5

23:10 27:6 29:18

30:9 37:3,20 40:18

46:6 48:14 53:7,20

61:7 62:13

ways 17:22

we've 2:11 5:20,24

9:4,4,20 11:1 15:6

15:16 17:19,21

20:18 22:22,25

28:11 30:16,16,20

30:20,22,24 31:6,13

31:23,24 32:12,15

33:2,6,21 37:7

38:18 42:12 45:17

45:22 46:8,18,20

48:8,13 50:6,15,17

50:24 53:7,9,18

58:8,21,24 62:1,21

65:18

wear 3:15

website 3:23 31:9

46:1 59:1 67:13

week 20:13 31:7

38:22 50:16

weeks 38:23 55:25

weigh 33:3,5 41:24

welcome 2:4 3:3,18

65:8 68:4

welcomes 60:19

wells 40:15,19

went 49:17 50:3

west 2:25

whereof 69:11

white 2:18 11:6,14

11:16

whittle 35:15

willing 16:16 55:15

56:13,24 59:11

wish 2:2 66:22

wondering 32:17

words 27:5 36:19

work 17:18 40:24

46:3 47:4 49:14

50:3,3,21,25 51:1,3

51:5 52:20,23 53:12

56:9 57:15,16,18,19

58:13,14,17 59:2,18

59:23,24 60:5,8

61:11 63:18,20 64:3

65:17 66:2

worked 50:11,14

working 40:18 46:9

46:21,24 48:5 50:23

51:13 59:10,14,17

61:20 62:12 66:4

67:20

workload 65:24

world 16:21

worthy 22:17

write 41:22

writes 35:21

writing 36:25

written 13:21 19:6

34:8,11 36:4,9

53:17 66:21

wrong 14:23,23

42:15

wrote 57:4

y

y'all 14:13 55:22,23

yeah 23:16 58:23

62:9

year 12:21,22 23:18

33:17 40:6 50:4

67:16

years 3:12 14:22

21:4 27:15 31:23

36:17 40:5 45:14

49:1,1,1 53:7,8,14

55:24,24 59:17

60:10 65:20

yesterday 2:14 4:22

10:12,17,20 29:12

[wagers - yesterday] Page 16

Veritext/NJ Reporting Company

800-227-8440 973-410-4040