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10 NATIONAL INDIAN GAMING COMMISSION

11 CONSULTATION MEETING

12 OKLAHOMA INDIAN GAMING ASSOCIATION

13 OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA

14 AUGUST 14, 2013

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25 Transcribed by: David Harjo

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1 MR. BRYAN FOSTER: Good afternoon

2 everyone. First off, I would like to thank the

3 National Indian Gaming Commission for holding their

4 consultation during our OIG Conference. It's

5 certainly an honor and a pleasure to have you here,

6 Chairwoman Stevens and Commissioner Little. We

7 really appreciate your time. As we all know,

8 there's many of very interesting goings on in the

9 Indian gaming industry and it's very important for

10 the tribes and our regulatory authority body of the

11 National Indian Gaming Commission to communicate and

12 it's certainly a pleasure to have you here and we

13 want to welcome you and, Chairwoman Stevens, we

14 really appreciate all that you have done. At this

15 time I will turn it over to you. Thank you.

16 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Well, thank

17 you, Chairman. I want to say welcome to everyone.

18 I know we have a number of people trickling in.

19 There are a few things that we need to do before we

20 get started to talk about the subject at hand. So

21 first of all, I'll introduce myself, my name is

22 Tracie Stevens and I'm a member of the Tulalip Tribe

23 of Washington state, and chairwoman of the National

24 Indian Gaming Commission.

25 I want to apologize for the confusion

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1 about where the room -- where the consultation was

2 taking place. Apparently the Renaissance manages a

3 certain number of rooms here so we unfortunately had

4 a few people going over actually to the Renaissance

5 looking for Room 8, so my apologies first.

6 How we usually start these is we do

7 introductions. And I do want to invite any tribal

8 leaders and/or their delegates to the table.

9 Certainly make room for our tribal leaders at the

10 table with us. And then -- so we'll go around,

11 we'll do introductions with the attendees first and

12 then we will introduce the NIGC staff.

13 If you could please, if we could move

14 around the room with the microphone and if you could

15 please tell us your name and what tribe you are

16 with, and we can start back there and we will move

17 this way. And you thought sitting in the way, way

18 back was going to be the way to go. It is not. So

19 we'll start in the back, if you can say your name

20 and your tribe, that would be wonderful.

21

22 MS. JEZUN YUEN: Yezun Yuen, Wyandotte

23 Nation.

24 MR. TUZARI BIGKNIFE, Viejas Band of

25 Kimmeyzay.

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1 MR. KYLE WILLIAMS: Kyle Williams,

2 Alabama-Coushatta Texas.

3 MR. PETER LAWSON, Alabama-Coushatta

4 Texas.

5 MS. LESZA SHAW: Lesza Shaw, Absentee

6 Shawnee Tribe, Special Projects Manager.

7 MR. JOHN TAHSUDA: John Tahsuda,

8 Navigators Global.

9 MS. VALARIE SPICER: Good afternoon.

10 Valarie Spicer, Arizona Indian Gaming Association.

11 MR. RAYMOND CAMPBELL: Good afternoon,

12 Madam Chair. Ray Campbell, Iowa counsel.

13 MS. MICHELLE CARR: Michelle Carr

14 representing the Sycuan Gaming Commission.

15 MR. ED MAGDALENO: Ed Magdaleno, Sycuan

16 Gaming Commission.

17 MR. SCOTT COLBERT: Scott Colbert,

18 Chickasaw Gaming Commission.

19 MR. HASKELL ALEXANDER: Haskell

20 Alexander, Deputy Gaming Commissioner for the

21 Chickasaw Nation.

22 MS. ANGELA APAUTY: I'm Angela Apauty

23 with the Wichita Gaming Commission out of Anadarko.

24 MS. BETH PARKER: Beth Parker, Wichita

25 Gaming Commission.

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1 MR. JASON NICHOLS: I'm Jason Nichols of

2 the Viejas Gaming Commission.

3 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: From this

4 side of the table we'll go around and then we'll

5 introduce our staff.

6 MR. LLOYD PAPPAN: Lloyd Pappan with the

7 Kaw Nation.

8 MR. STEVE YORK: Steve York, Ft. Sill

9 Apache Nation.

10 MR. GUY MUNROE: Guy Munroe, Chairman,

11 Kaw Nation.

12 MR. KEN BELLMARD: Ken Bellmard,

13 Government Relations, Kaw Nation.

14 MS. DANA DEERE: Dana Deere with the

15 Absentee Shawnee Gaming Commission.

16 MS. EDWINA BUTLERWOLF: Edwina

17 Butlerwolf, Governor, Absentee Shawnee Tribe.

18 MS. TERRI PARTON: Terri Parton,

19 President, Wichita Gaming Commission.

20 MS. LESLIE TANYAN: Leslie Tanyan with

21 the Iowa Tribe of Oklahoma.

22 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Okay. Great.

23 I also want to acknowledge all of the staff that we

24 have here and many others that you don't all get to

25 see that are in other offices or at our headquarters

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1 in D.C. With us today is Christy Jacobson, she's

2 one of our AA's, administrative assistants. Benise

3 McCoya is also an administrative assistant. We also

4 have Tony Wheeler who I think is manning the booth

5 right now. Bryan Moody, both compliance officers.

6 Dana, who -- I think she's also -- Dana Freeman is

7 managing the booth right now. Our Oklahoma Regional

8 Director is Tom Cunningham, who is right over here

9 with the transcriptionist. Tim Harper who is in the

10 back and also will be manning the microphone.

11 Also, we have from our General Counsel's

12 office our Acting Associate General Counsel Mike

13 Hoenig, right here; our Acting General Counsel Eric

14 Shepard; with our General Counsel's office Sarah

15 Walters, and Associate Commissioner Dan Little.

16 I would like to take a moment to turn the

17 mic over to Dan for his opening remarks and then we

18 will get underway.

19 MR. DAN LITTLE: Good afternoon

20 everybody. I want to thank you all for coming here

21 today and I want to thank the Oklahoma Indian Gaming

22 Association for hosting this event. Chairman

23 Foster, you guys put on a great show and a great

24 trade show and I really enjoy the time here.

25 I'm really happy that -- I guess I'm just

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1 going to be sharing the last consultation meeting I

2 have with Chairwoman Stevens on this important

3 issue. It's something that I think is near and dear

4 to our hearts. It's something that we have long

5 needed to look at and I can't think of a better

6 place to do our final consultation than in Oklahoma.

7 You guys have done so many great things here with

8 Class II gaming and I'm very happy that we are

9 taking the time to review this, share our thoughts

10 with all of you.

11 Basically in line with the way we have

12 been consulting the last few years before we make

13 any major decisions. So I'm looking forward to

14 hearing all of your comments and thank you again for

15 coming.

16 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you,

17 Dan. Just some reminders. What we are here for

18 today is the Federal Register Notice that we issued

19 in June and our General Counsel's office will go

20 over the details. There is a copy of the Federal

21 Register Notice available out in front so you should

22 be able to bring one in with you. If you don't have

23 one, certainly raise your hand and we'll get one for

24 you. But that's the subject at hand today of this

25 consultation. We request that -- respectfully

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1 request that we stay on topic. If there are other

2 issues specific to your tribe or other issues in

3 general, please feel free to stop any of us after --

4 after the consultation. If you wish to discuss

5 other matters, we are certainly open to talking to

6 you.

7 A reminder that consultations are for

8 tribes only and their designated representatives.

9 No media is allowed, so if you are with the media we

10 kindly ask that you step out of the room. These

11 proceedings, I guess this consultation is

12 transcribed as all of our consultations have been

13 since we have embarked on our regulatory review and

14 other processes. We have here, David Harjo, he is

15 our transcriptionist. If you could, please, when it

16 comes time to comment, speak your name loud and

17 clear and who you are with so that he can take your

18 name down for the transcription, that will be posted

19 on our website later down the road.

20 So with that, I'll turn it over to our

21 General Counsel's office and we'll review the

22 Federal Register Notice and our look forward to your

23 comments.

24 MR. MICHAEL HOENIG: Good afternoon

25 everybody. Like Tracie said, my name is Michael

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1 Hoenig. I'm with the Office of General Counsel and

2 I thought that we could begin by just giving a

3 little bit of background on the Federal Register

4 Notice that was published on June 25th and what the

5 proposed reinterpretation does exactly.

6 So just first thing to remind everybody

7 of is, it is a request for comment that was

8 published and so we really do want to see and hear

9 comments, not only today but if you have written

10 comments, please feel free to submit them, and the

11 deadline for that is August 26th, which I believe is

12 a week from next Monday. So if you have written

13 comments that you want to submit, that's the

14 deadline for getting them in.

15 So by way of background, in 2008 the

16 Metlakatla Tribe of Alaska -- the Metlakatla

17 community in Alaska submitted a game specific

18 ordinance to the National Gaming Commission for

19 review and approval, and in that ordinance they

20 defined Class II gaming to include what we refer to

21 as one-touch bingo. I think everybody here knows

22 what that is, it's just bingo, an electronic bingo

23 game that can be played with one touch of a button

24 instead of two or three.

25 Chairman Hogan, who was chairman at the

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1 time, reviewed the ordinance and disapproved it on

2 the grounds that one-touch bingo is not a Class II

3 game but is a Class III game. The disapproval was

4 basically laid out three reasons for his decision,

5 and the first was that definition of bingo did not

6 include one touch because one touch didn't meet the

7 necessary element of competition. And I should say,

8 if you haven't seen the Federal Register Notice yet,

9 this is all laid out in much more detail there. I'm

10 just going to kind of give the highlights.

11 So the first was that it didn't meet the

12 definition of IGRA, the definition of Class II

13 gaming under IGRA because it didn't contain the

14 necessary element of competition.

15 Second, that it was not a game similar to

16 bingo because it didn't have that element of

17 competition.

18 And lastly, that it -- that one-touch

19 bingo is a Class III facsimile of a game of chance.

20 And again it was, all three of these were

21 basically grounded in the fact that this one touch

22 didn't have the necessary element of competition.

23 So after the chairman's decision went out

24 there was an initial appeal but that appeal was

25 withdrawn so it was never taken up by the full

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1 commission for -- approved for -- excuse me -- for

2 decision before the full commission and subsequently

3 never made it into federal court. It stopped at the

4 chairman's decision.

5 So the commissioners have considered

6 whether that decision issued in 2008 is correct, and

7 that decision, that reconsideration has come because

8 a lot of folks in the industry have been asking

9 questions about, well, we know that this one

10 decision is out there but what does that mean? Is

11 one touch a Class III game or is it a Class II game?

12 So the commissioners have proposed this

13 reinterpretation and they are asking for folks'

14 comments on it.

15 And the reinterpretation basically is, it

16 addresses the three aspects in the 2008 decision,

17 and first that one-touch bingo does, in fact, meet

18 all of the elements that are laid out in IGRA's

19 definition of bingo, and not only that they play for

20 prizes, that all of the numbers are covered on the

21 card when drawn, and that the game is won by the

22 first person to cover, and that's the only thing

23 that's required. And so this additional element

24 that Chairman Hogan spoke about in the 2008

25 decision, with competition being, I guess for lack

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1 of a better way to put it, competition being implied

2 from this "first person to cover" language, that

3 that is not a necessary -- it's not an aspect of the

4 definition in IGRA and therefore it shouldn't be

5 grounds for finding one touch to be a Class III

6 game.

7 Second, that one-touch bingo is not a

8 game similar to bingo. We agree with the -- overall

9 the proposed reinterpretation agrees with the

10 ultimate conclusion but for different reasons, and

11 it's not a game similar to bingo because it is

12 bingo. It doesn't need to meet all those other

13 aspects.

14 And lastly, that it is not a facsimile of

15 a game of chance. It's not a Class III facsimile

16 because it doesn't incorporate all of the aspects of

17 the game of bingo, namely that you still have to

18 have competition, you are still playing someone

19 else, and also that it meets the exception that's

20 laid out in Class III facsimile definition for an

21 electronic bingo game that broadens player

22 participation by allowing multiple players to play

23 against a machine. Whether it's one touch or two

24 touch, that's not changed and therefore it's -- not

25 only is it not a facsimile but it also meets the

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1 exception.

2 And lastly, the proposed reinterpretation

3 talks about this just being in line with what

4 Congress intended when they passed IGRA, that tribes

5 should be able and encouraged to take advantage of

6 technological advances that happened in the

7 industry, and that interpreting bingo in Class II

8 gaming this way is more in line with what Congress

9 intended.

10 So that's it in a nutshell and -- and

11 like I said, the deadline for comments is

12 August 26th, so I'm eager to hear what everybody

13 thinks. Thank you.

14 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you,

15 Mike. And I do want to raise my hands to the Office

16 of General Counsel and others that were integral to

17 the -- this Federal Register Notice and really

18 thoroughly examining this particular issue, the

19 Metlakatla decision, you know, what the law

20 provides, what our regulations provide, and

21 providing this commission with lots of information

22 on the subject, and, you know, from that we were

23 able to, you know, certainly form our decision to

24 publish this Federal Register Notice comment, so I

25 want to thank the General Counsel's office for all

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1 of their hard work on this. It was a very

2 deliberative process on their part to really, really

3 closely examine this particular issue. Thank you

4 very much.

5 With that, we can open the floor to

6 questions, to comments, if any of you -- certainly

7 we understand that there -- you know, it's a

8 conference, there's a lot of other meetings going

9 on, a lot of other activities. If there are

10 individuals that are pressed for time and have a

11 prepared statement, please feel free to step forward

12 and make a comment. I just want to remind

13 everybody, again this is being transcribed and

14 please state your name and the tribe that you're

15 with.

16 Yes, sir.

17 MR. KEN BELLMARD: Yes. My name is Ken

18 Bellmard with the Kaw Nation and I have a couple of

19 comments. The first comment would be related to,

20 Has there been any consideration of the unintended

21 consequences of this, particularly in Oklahoma? And

22 if you will just follow my line of thinking here for

23 a minute.

24 In Oklahoma we enjoy somewhat of an

25 exclusive as far as our gaming goes. In exchange

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1 for this exclusive we pay the state revenues from

2 Class II. We have some concern that because of the

3 blurring of the line, because this is a fast game.

4 The difference between this game and what used to be

5 considered Class III, they are very close. They are

6 very close games. And our concern is is that

7 because we are in an exclusive type state, that if

8 you can replace Class III with these type of

9 machines then there will be no compact revenues to

10 share with the state and in turn the state won't

11 allow us to continue to have an exclusive. That's a

12 concern to us. And we were wondering if that

13 unintended potential consequence was something that

14 had been considered by the commission. So that's I

15 guess a comment and a question.

16 The second thing is, I know for years --

17 and I have been involved in this situation or I have

18 represented tribes and I submitted the first compact

19 request on the part of the tribe that I represented

20 in 1989, so I've seen a lot of change from when the

21 U.S. attorney said, "If you plug it in the wall it's

22 a gaming device and you are all going to jail," and

23 as things have evolved, but it always seemed that

24 one of the critical elements of bingo was always the

25 daubing, the claiming the two touch. And I was

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1 wondering -- I guess this is more of a question than

2 a comment. I understood what the gentleman said and

3 I've read this, but I'm trying to get a better

4 handle on that determination or that decision that

5 it didn't take a daub and a claim, that just having,

6 I guess, the algorithm based on a bingo card was

7 essentially enough for it to constitute bingo.

8 Thank you.

9 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Well,

10 certainly we -- thank you for your comment -- we

11 thought about a number of, you know, potential

12 consequences and certainly I don't think anyone can

13 know all consequences. What we would suggest is

14 that you provide some comments to us in writing.

15 This may be sufficient for us to examine that in

16 your verbal comments. I will turn it over to OGC to

17 freely talk about your question about the daubbing

18 versus claiming question, and that versus a

19 one-touch element.

20 MR. MICHAEL HOENIG: Yeah, we certainly

21 took that into consideration. And basically it's

22 still being done, it's being assisted by the

23 machine, so the machine is electronically assisting

24 the player in covering the numbers and calling

25 bingo. Like you said, it does happen fast but it

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1 also happens fast with two touch. It's not I don't

2 think a significant difference, but more importantly

3 is -- is that it's still, I think, is in line with

4 what -- how IGRA defines bingo and the definition of

5 Class II gaming.

6 So it's still -- there's competing

7 against one another, there's still a ball draw,

8 there's still a covering of a card, and there's

9 still one of the player terminals calling out, "I

10 have bingo" or "I have four corners" or whatever the

11 game is for the prize.

12 MR. STEVE YORK: Steve York, consultant

13 with the Kaw Nation. My question is this, is that,

14 you know, you talk about the facsimile definition.

15 The facsimile definition has been amended three

16 times by the commission over the period of time the

17 commission existed, but in the definition you guys

18 really haven't taken consideration to fully define

19 what the difference between Class II and III is. I

20 mean, the only missing piece of the puzzle that's

21 left is to define what constitutes a Class III

22 lottery in electronic format. That is still a

23 missing piece of the puzzle, so that hasn't been

24 defined.

25 And then, also, how are you going to

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1 address 2721? Which is the last part of IGRA.

2 2721, 2701 through 2721, but somebody needs to look

3 at 2721 because I think that's the reason that they

4 took on that one touch deal, I mean with Hogan's

5 initial limited ability, in his limited ability and

6 knowledge of gaming, that's what he put out to that

7 tribe on -- on not saying that you could have a

8 one-touch game. But like I say, because you

9 don't -- the NIGC has never fully defined what

10 constitutes a Class III lottery under the 2721, I

11 don't know how we can proceed forward without

12 addressing that issue.

13 And the other things, I mean, there's

14 others things that the NIGC really needs to do

15 underneath IGRA, is clarify what constitutes a

16 management contract, besides the 3040 stuff that's

17 taken into place, but there's three items in IGRA

18 that has never been fully addressed by any

19 commission. I mean, they have tried to address just

20 parts of it but still IGRA needs to be looked at as

21 a whole and not amended. I mean, that's the key to

22 the whole thing.

23 But I agree with Ken that we might be

24 facing some exclusivity problems, you know, that we

25 currently enjoy because Class II is the only

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1 leverage that we do have with the states with

2 compacts. I mean, even currently if you go to

3 different states, even Nebraska, which I used to be

4 the former superintendent in Kansas and worked with

5 the tribe that was situated out of Nebraska, and

6 they can't play Keno up there but even here in

7 Oklahoma we were playing -- we were playing Keno

8 games even though it's not allowable underneath the

9 Cherokee Games Act because, you know, we've got

10 independent test sites that say, well, that's an

11 instant game, you know, an instant bingo game, and

12 by far it ain't an instant bingo game, it's a Keno

13 game; otherwise, you guys would have different

14 things in your minutes that wouldn't address Keno.

15 So like I say, it's a thought process,

16 and you don't take on one piece of IGRA and then say

17 we can fix it and not look at the total consequences

18 that a tribe has to maybe face in the long run. I

19 mean, that's the only thing I'm saying to you.

20 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Okay. Thank

21 you very much and we look forward to the Kaw

22 Nation's comments and, you know, potential, from

23 your prospective, consequences and how we may

24 improve this interpretation.

25 Do we have other comments with tribal

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1 leaders that want to make comments?

2 Yes, sir. Move that microphone over,

3 Jamie, thank you.

4 MR. RONNIE THOMAS: Ron Thomas,

5 Alabama-Coushatta Tribe of Texas. First of all,

6 Chairwoman Stevens, we want to thank you for the

7 opportunity to have you put this tribal consultation

8 together in regard to this one-touch bingo issue

9 that's at hand.

10 The Alabama-Coushatta Tribe of Texas is

11 pleased that the NIGC is considering the

12 reinterpretation, you know, of its recent position

13 regarding the one-touch and two-touch bingo. The

14 tribe agrees that the terms of IGRA should mean what

15 they say, and the tribe is pleased that the NIGC

16 will take a reasonable and principle approach in the

17 interpretation of our regulations.

18 You know, according to IGRA, bingo has

19 the three elements that were addressed in the

20 June 25th Federal Register Notice and the tribe is

21 glad to see that the NIGC has seized upon these

22 elements and we do support, you know, their common

23 sense approach in the interpretation of the regs.

24 You know, currently there's no provision

25 within IGRA that requires multiple touches or daubs.

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1 You know, such a position has the effect of stifling

2 the technological advances in gaming. You know, for

3 those tribes with access only to Class II gaming

4 (and resulting economic benefits) any limitation by

5 the NIGC on Class II gaming technological aids

6 should be taken only after serious consideration of

7 the legal basis for the limitation and its potential

8 negative economic consequences. It is not any

9 secret that the amount of revenue generated by Class

10 II gaming operations, you know, is significantly

11 less than Class III gaming. You know, any agency

12 decisions about Class II gaming limitations should

13 not be made in a vacuum.

14 You know, limiting the decisions, you

15 know, will have its real life consequences. For

16 example, the Kickapoo Tribe of Texas worked for

17 years to obtain a Class III gaming compact with the

18 state of Texas, but to no avail.

19 In the wake of the Seminole decision, the

20 amount of leverage Indian tribes have in encouraging

21 a state to enter into a good faith tribal-state

22 gaming compact negotiations have been significantly

23 reduced. You know, we would encourage the NIGC to

24 act within the statutory limits of IGRA while still

25 recognizing the principle purposes of IGRA and

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1 Federal Indian Policy which are to promote tribal

2 economic development, tribal self-sufficiency and

3 strong tribal government.

4 In 2007, and in response to the state of

5 Texas' refusal to compact with the Kickapoo Tribe of

6 Texas, the Department of Interior issued Secretarial

7 Procedures that would have allowed the Kickapoo

8 Tribe of Texas to conduct Class III gaming. You

9 know, however these procedures were invalidated by

10 the 5th Circuit. The Kickapoo Tribe is now left

11 only with Class II gaming. Should the

12 Alabama-Coushatta Tribe of Texas have the

13 opportunity to take advantage of the opportunities

14 of Class II gaming in the future, we would hope that

15 there would be continued value in Class II which

16 would allow the tribe to generate significant

17 revenue to support our government, our people and to

18 undertake the economic development for the benefit

19 of our membership.

20 The Alabama-Coushatta Tribe strongly

21 supports the efforts of the NIGC to reverse course

22 on the interpretation of the IGRA and definition of

23 bingo. You know, we do look forward to submitting

24 our comments in support of your efforts.

25 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you

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1 very much, sir.

2 Do we have other comments? Any

3 questions?

4 MR. ED MAGDALENA: Good afternoon. Ed

5 Magdalena, Sycuan Gaming Commission. Back in 2009

6 the gaming commission put together a fact finding

7 hearing on this very matter. We invited different

8 professionals to our hearing and got a lot of

9 testimony and evidence in regards to this. As a

10 matter of fact, I could probably fill this table

11 here, but we have condensed it and I have it here to

12 introduce as, not only our comments but an

13 incredible resource on this matter.

14 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Okay. Hand

15 that to Sarah, she'll take that.

16 Thank you.

17 Jamie.

18 MR. JAMIE HUMMINGBIRD: Jamie

19 Hummingbird, Cherokee Nation. As Ed had mentioned,

20 a few years ago I was able to take part in that fact

21 finding mission that Sycuan was so gracious to hold

22 for this issue, and the very arguments and the very

23 statements and reasoning that we put forward during

24 that fact finding mission, I'm glad to hear is also

25 being voiced by the NIGC, recognizing the

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1 information and the hard work and diligence that

2 went into fighting for development and protected

3 future development of Class II games.

4 So I do want to say that the

5 reinterpretation I believe is a positive step. I

6 think it is one that has been a long time coming. I

7 appreciate the work that you, Chairwoman Stevens in

8 the commission role that you have done and the staff

9 have done in reexamining this issue, because I think

10 it's one that we have had out there for probably

11 seven, eight, ten plus years, and for that to be

12 recognizing to be made into a policy I think is a

13 very positive step for Indian gaming. Thank you.

14 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you,

15 Jamie.

16 Other comments? Questions?

17 Yes.

18 MS. LESLIE TANYAN: Leslie Tanyan with

19 the Iowa Tribe of Oklahoma, Tribal Secretary. I

20 would just like to say that the Iowa Tribe of

21 Oklahoma applauds your efforts in defining one-touch

22 bingo. We are a small tribe and like most small

23 tribes we rely on our Class II gaming as well as

24 Class III, so by you making that step forward that

25 does help with the regulations, it does help with

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1 smaller tribes as well as any tribe in Oklahoma. So

2 we look forward to submitting our comments by the

3 deadline. And, again, we thank you for holding

4 these consultations today.

5 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you

6 very much. We look forward to your comments.

7 Yes, sir.

8 MR. WILLIAM NORMAN: William Norman with

9 Hobbs, Straus, Dean and Walker. We represent a

10 number of tribes, both inside the state and outside

11 the state of Oklahoma where Class II is extremely

12 important. I just want to echo the comments

13 supporting the commission's effort to consider

14 examining this issue. We appreciate the proposal

15 that's in the Federal Register and we expect that a

16 number of our clients will be submitting comments

17 supportive of the analysis. This is extremely

18 important. This has been mentioned in the state of

19 Oklahoma where the tribes began with Class II and

20 really sort of defined the Class II historically and

21 the need to have the flexibility for viable Class II

22 activities in the future as we get further down the

23 line with our gaming compacts. So thank you for

24 your effort.

25 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you.

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1 Yes.

2 MS. ROBIN LASH: Robin Lash, Miami Tribe.

3 The Miami Tribe would like to thank you also for

4 being here and providing the tribe with this

5 opportunity to comment, and the Miami Tribe would

6 like to respectfully submit that this is not

7 actually a review, a reinterpretation, that it seems

8 that Chairman Hogan drew his conclusions from his

9 own review, and it was like a review of the

10 ordinance, so the Miami Tribe would like to submit

11 that this action that you're taking today is

12 actually an initial interpretation and we appreciate

13 this opportunity. Thank you.

14 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Will Miami be

15 providing comments that will further explain?

16 MS. ROBIN LASH: Yes, ma'am, we will be.

17 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Okay. Great.

18 Thank you.

19 MS. BARBARA COLLIER: Good afternoon.

20 I'm not going to bore you with all of my comments,

21 but I would like to read -- paraphrase from a couple

22 of paragraphs and then we have our comments to

23 submit to you.

24 Barbara Collier with the Quapaw Tribal

25 Gaming Agency.

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1 Of course, on behalf of we thank you for

2 your reinterpretation. I don't want to have a

3 conflict of interest there with Robin but that's

4 what our comments say.

5 Under IGRA, however, the game of bingo is

6 bingo so long as the game meets the statutory

7 elements, the possibility that more than one player

8 can simultaneously hit bingo does not turn a Class

9 II bingo game into a Class III game, nor does the

10 fact that a button is pressed only once transform

11 the game of bingo into a Class III electronic

12 facsimile.

13 Moreover, the number of potential winners

14 is not an element of the game of bingo, neither is a

15 manual cover requirement an appropriate criteria for

16 classification. In fact, none of these criterias

17 represent appropriate legal elements determinative

18 of the class of a game under IGRA.

19 In spite of this, the 2008 letter

20 improperly focused its game classification analysis

21 on the number of times a button was pushed.

22 And then I will skip on to the closing.

23 We applaud the NIGC for proposing a reinterpretation

24 of IGRA that will assure tribal governments the full

25 benefit of the law. As recognized in the proposal

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1 and reflected in the legislative history of IGRA,

2 Congress not only anticipated but in fact intended

3 to facilitate the use of modern technology of in the

4 play of Class II games.

5 In enacting IGRA, Congress is well aware

6 that Class II gaming technology would continue to

7 advance and that the industry would likewise evolve

8 to keep up with the emerging technologies.

9 We therefore strongly agree with the

10 NIGC's position that the commission should give

11 consideration to the interpretation of bingo that

12 embraces rather than stifles technological advances

13 in gaming.

14 For the reasons set forth above, we urge

15 the NIGC to adopt this proposal to reinterpret its

16 position on one-touch bingo. We welcome this

17 proposed change and believe that it will bring much

18 needed clarity, certainty and stability in relation

19 to the law pertaining to Class II gaming. And I

20 have this to submit to you.

21 I would also like to take just a few

22 seconds and thank you for your time. We will miss

23 you even though we didn't always see eye to eye, it

24 has been a joy to have someone in the position that

25 you have held to stand up for tribes and Native

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1 Americans, and I love you.

2 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Well, thank

3 you very much. Those are very kind words, and, you

4 know, we didn't always agree but I was brought up

5 from my own upbringing just because we don't agree

6 doesn't mean we have to be disagreeable, we can

7 still be respectful and we can still move on with

8 business. So thank you very much.

9 I do want to mention that, you know,

10 there were certainly a number of options that we

11 could have -- you know, paths, I should say, that we

12 could have taken to take a look at this because

13 there were so many questions from the industry about

14 this particular subject, and in keeping with the

15 Executive Order 13175, when it came to policy

16 changes, and also in making sure the tribes and the

17 public had an opportunity to comment, we chose to go

18 through this request for comment on an agency, you

19 know, interpretation of its governing statute, and

20 to be transparent about this process.

21 So we certainly want everyone's comments,

22 and, you know, as we have always done with our

23 consultation for improvement, from maybe something

24 we didn't see or something we didn't consider, so

25 please do comment.

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1 But thank you, Barbara.

2 Others? I'm sorry there is not enough

3 seats. I know you are all standing back there. You

4 can certainly join us at the table. I feel like I'm

5 at an auction. I feel like I should say, going

6 once, going twice?

7 Yes.

8 MS. EDWINA BUTLERWOLF: Good afternoon.

9 I'm Edwina Butlerwolf, Absentee Shawnee Tribe,

10 Governor, newly elected Governor, and as well we

11 will be making our comments to this particular

12 topic, so I just wanted to let you know that. And

13 as well as anybody knows, once you get into office

14 and as a newly elected official, you've got a lot of

15 reading to do. So I know there's a lot of

16 experience in this room and I need to get up to par

17 here to educate myself on this. As well, we will be

18 making comments on behalf of the Absentee Shawnee

19 Tribe.

20 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you

21 very much, and welcome to your new office and we

22 look forward to seeing comments from the Absentee

23 Shawnee.

24 Other comments? Questions? Might start

25 that again. Going once?

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1 Well, if we don't have other comments at

2 this time I strongly, strongly encourage you to

3 bring this information back to your tribe, consider

4 what has been said today. I know that when we get

5 our comments we try to get them up onto our website

6 as quickly as we can so that others may see them,

7 and certainly as we have always done, we will

8 consider all comments that come in.

9 If you have any questions about this, you

10 can always call our office and talk to either Sarah

11 or Mike. If you need clarification, we're always

12 happy to help.

13 I would like to turn it over to Dan for a

14 moment for some closing comments.

15 MR. DAN LITTLE: Well, I've got to tell

16 you, this has been the easiest Oklahoma consultation

17 I have ever --

18 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Yeah, it's

19 funner that way.

20 MR. DAN LITTLE: You know, sitting here

21 and listening to some of the comments with Robin and

22 Barbara, you know, we have gone through, we started

23 off with taking a look at the Class II mixed and the

24 technical standards, and we spent a lot of time

25 working on this whole subject matter, and it was --

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1 I don't want to say a tough process but it was an

2 informative process, and it only worked because of

3 the support and the feedback that we got from the

4 tribal community. So I want to thank all of you.

5 I think, like it was mentioned, everybody

6 didn't get everything they wanted, but we got

7 something that worked, and I think we have got good

8 regulations on the book. I think this process here

9 goes to kind of clarifying an issue that's still out

10 there that needed to be reviewed.

11 So I want to thank you all for not just

12 the support and not just the feedback on this issue

13 but on everything we have done in our Class II

14 regulatory review, so I want to thank you again. I

15 want to thank OIGA for hosting this great event. I

16 want to thank our staff. Still, I believe our staff

17 is the single greatest asset of the commission. We

18 could not do your job if we could not have the

19 experts, and I can say that for this commission,

20 future commissions and past commissions. You know,

21 we're here for a short period of time but they

22 remain and they continue to provide great service to

23 the commission and to the communities. So I want to

24 thank all of the staff.

25 And then finally, I must have to thank

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1 Chairwoman Stevens. This will be the last

2 consultation that I have the honor to sit next to

3 her and I'm very sad that she's leaving but I

4 understand her reasons and what she's doing. Tracie

5 and I have been friends for a long time, long before

6 coming on the commission. We joke around that we

7 kind of got our feet wet standing behind some of the

8 great Indian advocates like Jess Green and others

9 throwing rocks, but we got to stand behind them.

10 Well, now we're on the receiving end of those rocks

11 and it's kind of fun, but we learned from folks

12 before us, and it's been an honor to work with

13 Tracie as a friend, as a colleague and, you know,

14 instrumentally our great leader here in the NIGC.

15 We have had a very busy three years. It could not

16 have been done without her leadership. Got a couple

17 of dents in the back of my head from her smacking me

18 around but we made great progress through the

19 regulatory reviews, sticking on message, you know,

20 the way we do consultation, being respectful and

21 listening before we make decisions. Could never

22 have been done without Tracie. So I want to thank

23 her and I wish her much luck, but also tell her that

24 she's going to be greatly missed.

25 (Applause.)

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1 CHAIRWOMAN TRACIE STEVENS: Well, those

2 are very kind words, Dan, thank you very much. And

3 I want to echo his comments about our staff. It was

4 really great coming into the NIGC and finding this

5 like gold mine of great employees that helped inform

6 us with what we needed to do and set a direction,

7 and then implement it. You know, more than just

8 going through these regulatory changes and changing

9 words on paper and in our regulations is the actual

10 implementation that's going to have to happen over

11 the next couple of years that we have already

12 started, and it's -- you know, we cannot do that

13 without our staff, you know, which we relied upon.

14 So I want to, you know, in, you know, my culture is

15 my hands up to the staff that has worked with us all

16 these years and helped us keep the momentum going

17 with our very aggressive agenda. We -- I want to

18 say that people laughed at us when we told them what

19 our core missions were; we were like, "You are never

20 going to get that done."

21 I'm like, "Oh, yeah? Well, watch."

22 We're going to get this done and we're

23 going to do it in a manner that's respectful to

24 tribes. We're going to talk, and we're going to

25 talk, and we're going to talk some more. We're

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1 going to go through draft after draft after draft,

2 and we did and we read and read and read lots and

3 lots of comments, drafts, just so that we could have

4 a very well-informed process, because we get hung up

5 on processes it's really hard to talk about the

6 substance.

7 I really enjoyed my time. It -- you

8 know, I came to this position, not trying to get to

9 this position but I sort of ended up in this

10 position and -- because I used to stand behind Jess

11 Green and egg him on and give him rocks. You know,

12 and he gave me pointers on my aim. Now I'm on the

13 other side and I have developed my dodging skills,

14 so, you know, it has last helped to be from the

15 tribal community, it has helped me to come from a

16 reservation, it has helped me to come from an

17 operation, and it's also going to help me as I move

18 into my future on what is meant to be part of the

19 administration, how these decisions are made, how

20 things look from this side of the table.

21 And I do want to finally, you know,

22 thank -- well, before I finally thank Dan who has

23 been my friend for a very long time and sometimes we

24 fight like brothers and sisters, but we, you know

25 how it is if you have kids, but, you know, we

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1 always, you know, make up and move on, but, you

2 know, I couldn't have done this without a really

3 helpful set of commissioners to move the massive

4 amount of work that we generated, and these guys and

5 the guys that our staff know that we generated and

6 still had to do their day-to-day jobs. So thank you

7 very much, Dan.

8 But I want to thank all of you because

9 understandably you all had come -- the first speech,

10 real speech that I made was at OIGA in 2010. It was

11 a long speech, and it was during the dinner, during

12 the awards, and somebody had told me, I think it was

13 Chairman Qualls, that said everybody was just sort

14 of sitting, waiting to see what we were going to do.

15 And we laid this whole thing out on what we were

16 going to do. I had Jess Green taking notes

17 everywhere I went, and said, "You said this three

18 times, you know, and if you said it three times,

19 then I expect you to do it." And if he were here

20 today, I would hope that he would say to me, "You

21 did everything that you said you were going to do,"

22 and kept my word.

23 But I want to -- we couldn't have done

24 this without your participation. It was a lot to

25 ask because we had a very aggressive agenda with a

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1 long schedule and even if you couldn't make it you

2 called us, you e-mailed us, you wrote in comments,

3 and those affected our decisions. When we thought

4 we, you know, had it right, we were like, oh, well,

5 we didn't think of that, and it helped inform the

6 final process, that in the end our goal was to

7 protect the industry like you want to. We're not

8 necessarily that different. We're all trying to do

9 the same thing.

10 So I appreciate your steadfast

11 participation. Sometime we didn't get along and

12 sometimes we didn't agree, and that's okay. But we

13 moved on, and I think we found a path forward that

14 led us to some really good decisions and tools for

15 all of you to continue protecting your -- your

16 revenues and your facilities. So my hands up to all

17 of you and all the tribes that participated. I

18 didn't want say much more. I don't want to get

19 all clint -- which I don't do normally because I'm,

20 you know, not a big cryer, but I thank you very much

21 and I'm sure it won't be the last you see of me,

22 but, again, please do comment, good or bad, on this

23 Federal Register Notice as we always encourage

24 everyone to do when we have a notice out.

25 So thank you very much. Please have safe

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1 travels home to wherever you are going and, you

2 know, peace be with you. Thank you.

3 (Applause.)

4

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1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2

3 I, David Harjo, Certified Shorthand

4 Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing proceeding

5 was by me taken in shorthand and thereafter transcribed;

6 and that I am not an attorney for nor relative of

7 any of said parties or otherwise interested in the

8 event of said action.

9

10 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set

11 my hand and official seal this 22nd day of August

12 2013.

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21 ___________________________

22 David Harjo, CSR RPR

23

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1

13175 29:15

14 1:14

1989 15:20

2

2007 22:4

2008 9:15 11:6,16

11:24 27:19

2009 23:5

2010 36:10

2013 1:14 39:12

22nd 39:11

25th 9:4 20:20

26th 9:11 13:12

2701 18:2

2721 18:1,2,2,3,10

3

3040 18:16

5

5th 22:10

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a

aa's 6:2

ability 18:5,5

able 7:22 13:5,23

23:20

absentee 4:5 5:15,17

30:9,18,22

access 21:3

acknowledge 5:23

act 19:9 21:24

acting 6:12,13

action 26:11 39:8

activities 14:9 25:22

actual 34:9

additional 11:23

address 18:1,19

19:14

addressed 18:18

20:19

addresses 11:16

addressing 18:12

administration

35:19

administrative 6:2,3

adopt 28:15

advance 28:7

advances 13:6 21:2

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advantage 13:5

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advocates 33:8

afternoon 2:1 4:9,11

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26:19 30:8

agency 21:11 26:25

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agenda 34:17 36:25

aggressive 34:17

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ago 23:20

agree 12:8 18:23

28:9 29:4,5 37:12

agrees 12:9 20:14

aids 21:5

aim 35:12

ain't 19:12

alabama 4:2,3 20:5

20:10 22:12,20

alaska 9:16,17

alexander 4:19,20

algorithm 16:6

allow 15:11 22:16

allowable 19:8

allowed 8:9 22:7

allowing 12:22

amended 17:15

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americans 29:1

amount 21:9,20

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anadarko 4:23

analysis 25:17 27:20

angela 4:22,22

anticipated 28:2

anybody 30:13

apache 5:9

apauty 4:22,22

apologies 3:5

apologize 2:25

apparently 3:2

appeal 10:24,24

applaud 27:23

applauds 24:21

applause 33:25 38:3

appreciate 2:7,14

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appropriate 27:15

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approval 9:19

approved 11:1

arguments 23:22

arizona 4:10

asking 11:8,13

aspect 12:3

aspects 11:16 12:13

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assistant 6:3

assistants 6:2

assisted 16:22

assisting 16:23

associate 6:12,15

association 1:12

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assure 27:24

attendees 3:11

attorney 15:21 39:6

auction 30:5

august 1:14 9:11

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authority 2:10

avail 21:18

available 7:21

awards 36:12

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ball 17:7

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barbara 26:19,24

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based 16:6

basically 7:11 10:4

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began 25:19

behalf 27:1 30:18

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bellmard 5:12,12

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benefit 22:18 27:25

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benise 6:2

beth 4:24,24

better 7:5 12:1 16:3

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bigknife 3:24

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27:8,9,11,14 28:11

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blurring 15:3

body 2:10

book 32:8

booth 6:4,7

bore 26:20

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broadens 12:21

brothers 35:24

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cherokee 19:9 23:19

chickasaw 4:18,21

chose 29:17

christy 6:1

circuit 22:10

city 1:13

claim 16:5

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class 7:8 9:20 10:2,3

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clients 25:16

clint 37:19

close 15:5,6

closely 14:3

closing 27:22 31:14

colbert 4:17,17

colleague 33:13

collier 26:19,24

come 11:7 31:8

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comes 8:16

coming 6:20 7:15

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comment 8:16 9:7

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comments 7:14 8:23

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commission 1:10

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4:18,23,25 5:2,15

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commission's 25:13

commissioner 2:6

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commissioners 11:5

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commissions 32:20

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common 20:22

communicate 2:11

communities 32:23

community 9:17

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compact 15:9,18

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compacts 19:2

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competing 17:6

competition 10:7,14

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concern 15:2,6,12

conclusion 12:10

conclusions 26:8

condensed 23:11

conduct 22:8

conference 2:4 14:8

conflict 27:3

confusion 2:25

congress 13:4,8 28:2

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consequence 15:13

consequences 14:21

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21:8,15

consider 25:13

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consideration 14:20

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considered 11:5

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considering 20:11

constitute 16:7

constitutes 17:21

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consultant 17:12

consultation 1:11

2:4 3:1 7:1,6,25 8:4

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31:16 33:2,20

consultations 8:7,12

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consulting 7:12

contain 10:13

continue 15:11 28:6

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continued 22:15

contract 18:16

copy 7:20

core 34:19

corners 17:10

correct 11:6

counsel 4:12 6:12,13

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counsel's 6:11,14

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criteria 27:15

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csr 39:22

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