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 9 NATIONAL INDIAN GAMING COMMISSION CONSULTATION

 10 ON MARCH 24, 2017 AT 8:35 A.M.

 11 IN TULSA, OKLAHOMA

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 24 REPORTED BY: Shannon S. Harwood, CSR
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 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: We thank Mr. Enlow for 

 2 that invocation --

 3 MR. ENLOW: You're welcome, brother.

 4 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: -- and Mr. Enlow is a 

 5 member of the Muscogee Creek Nation and we thank the 

 6 Muscogee Creek Nation for being the host tribe. We are 
 7 at the River Spirit Resort and we very much appreciate 

 8 their hospitality. We also thank NTGCR, National Tribal 

 9 Gaming Commissioners and Regulators, for allowing us to 

 10 schedule this consultation in conjunction with their 

 11 conference. This has been an incredible conference and 

 12 we look forward to a positive day of consultation to cap 

 13 everything off. 

 14 My name is Jonodev Chaudhuri. I'm a proud member 

 15 of the Muscogee Creek Nation, also Bengali on my 
 16 father's side. It is especially good for me to be back 

 17 home in Creek country and I'm thankful to be here with 

 18 my fellow commissioners, fellow members of the NIGC team 

 19 and fellow regulatory partners in the room. I thank you 

 20 all for the time that you've taken to attend today's 

 21 consultation. 

 22 We have a number of topics to go through that we 

 23 very much look forward to hearing your input on. Before 
 24 we get into the specifics of how the format will 

 25 proceed, I'm going to turn it over to my fellow 
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 1 commissioners, but let me just say a brief thought and 

 2 we'll hear more from others about consultation. 

 3 For us at NIGC, we are governed by a unique 

 4 mission. We're proud of our mission, and that mission 

 5 is to support tribal self sufficiency, tribal economic 

 6 development and strong tribal governments. And we do 
 7 that through our regulatory work governed by the 

 8 mandates of the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. 

 9 But the particularly powerful aspect of our mission 

 10 that I'm proud of is we are required to work closely 

 11 with the primary regulators of Indian gaming, which are 

 12 tribal nations themselves. And so we're part of a 

 13 larger regulatory structure, a larger regulatory 

 14 framework that requires regular ongoing positive

 15 collaboration and coordination with our partners. 
 16 Consultation is an important part of that. 

 17 In addition to our day-to-day interactions with our 

 18 regulatory partners, hearing input regarding any 

 19 regulatory directions or significant agency actions is 

 20 part of our decision making process. So we are governed 

 21 by our own consultation policy, but furthermore, we are 

 22 on record for repeatedly saying, before we put pen to 

 23 paper on any significant, any major action at the 
 24 agency, we will work hand in hand to listen closely and 

 25 to take input from our partners at every stage possible, 
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 1 and so today's consultation is a reflection of that 

 2 commitment. 

 3 We have a number of important topics that span a 

 4 number of agencies -- agency activities and so I'm proud 

 5 to be a member of my nation, Muscogee Creek Nation, 

 6 proud to be a member of team NIGC, but I'm also proud to 
 7 be a member of the larger regulatory structure that has 

 8 supported such an important economic development tool 

 9 that has helped support some of the important services 

 10 and programs in Indian country. 

 11 So thank you for your time today. Thank you for 

 12 being here. I'm going to turn it over to our vice chair 

 13 now, Ms. Isom-Clause.

 14 COMMISSIONER ISOM-CLAUSE: Good morning. I 

 15 see a lot of familiar faces here today, so I will keep 
 16 my remarks brief this morning. I'm Kathryn Isom-Clause. 

 17 I'm Taos Pueblo and I'm vice chair of the Commission. I 

 18 would also like to thank Muscogee Creek Nation and all 

 19 of you for being here with us today. 

 20 While we're here today to discuss several important 

 21 topics, in a larger sense, our work is to honor the 

 22 government-to-government relationship between the tribal 

 23 governments and federal government. In addition to the 
 24 trust responsibility -- trust responsibility that all 

 25 federal agencies have, our statutory purpose as an 
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 1 agency is to promote tribal economic development, self 

 2 sufficiency and strong tribal governments through 

 3 effective regulation of tribal gaming. 

 4 And some refreshments here. It's early. All 

 5 right. 

 6 To me, this includes ensuring the policies and 
 7 regulations that we set forth have a view toward 

 8 safeguarding benefits of tribal gaming for future 

 9 generations. As our partners in regulation, tribal 

 10 voices are essential to this work. This ongoing 

 11 dialogue is one of the most important tools we have for 

 12 creating strong regulations and policy. 

 13 I'd also like to briefly mention that we're in the 

 14 process of developing our required strategic plan that 

 15 will start in 2018 and that your comments here today 
 16 will also be used in the formulation of that plan, and 

 17 there will be an opportunity to review that at a later 

 18 date once we have a draft and comment on it. We'll keep 

 19 you up to date with that time line and guidance as we 

 20 get it. 

 21 And beyond the session today, our door is always 

 22 open, so please always feel free to contact us, meet 

 23 with or email us. And so with that, thank you for being 
 24 here today and we look forward to your comments. 

 25 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: Good morning, 
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 1 everyone. I'm going to join my colleagues in thanking 

 2 Creek Nation and the speakers of the invocation earlier 

 3 today, our colleagues and especially everyone for being 

 4 here today. I'm Sequoyah Simermeyer. I'm Coharie. My 

 5 tribe is from Eastern North Carolina, and I'm the 

 6 associate commissioner. And I just want to join others 
 7 in emphasizing the importance of consultation. 

 8 For me, being in federal public service for about 

 9 10 years, it's been my experience that consultation is a 

 10 really important tool in developing an ongoing 

 11 relationship, whether it's providing formal settings 

 12 like this or in cultivating collaboration that takes 

 13 place on a day-to-day basis. 

 14 So I think that the opportunity we have to talk, 

 15 especially with a lot of the leadership and 
 16 institutional knowledge at the NIGC today, hopefully 

 17 will instill, as the vice chair said, an ongoing, 

 18 open-door discussion, especially on some of the topics 

 19 that are a bit open-ended in terms of your feedback 

 20 about how we can meet our emphasis areas and how we can 

 21 meet our unique responsibilities as part of the federal 

 22 members of the regulatory team in Indian country, so 

 23 thank you.
 24 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Commissioner. 

 25 So at this point, in order for us to know who we're 
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 1 speaking among so we can, you know, best share 

 2 information, and that's the point of these 

 3 consultations, to share and learn, we're going to move 

 4 forward with some introductions, but we have a lot of 

 5 the same folks that are in the room that were in 

 6 yesterday's consultation. 
 7 And I always recognize our alumni, and Ms. Homer is 

 8 here with us today, and so Ms. Homer was former vice 

 9 chair of the Commission. And -- oh, she keeps hiding 

 10 back there. Lael Echohawk is there, too. Okay. And 

 11 there she is. And she also worked as counselor to the 

 12 chair working on some critical policy initiatives at 

 13 NIGC, and so we thank them for their past service to the 

 14 Commission, but their ongoing service to Indian country 

 15 and to Indian gaming. 
 16 Just in the interest of time, I'm just going to 

 17 introduce the folks here at the table. And I don't know 

 18 if -- you know, if we'll have time to -- well, we'll 

 19 move forward with introductions with everybody in the 

 20 room so we all know who is here, but with us at the 

 21 table providing subject matter expertise and also being 

 22 available to answer any questions, we have our general 

 23 counsel, Mike Hoenig. 
 24 We have our deputy chief of staff, Christinia 

 25 Thomas. You know, I'm just -- but we have our training 
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 1 manager, Steve Brewer. Trying to see who all sat up 

 2 front. Okay. We have our finance director, Yvonne Lee. 

 3 We have our technology division director, Travis Waldo, 

 4 and our Oklahoma City regional director, Mr. Tom 

 5 Cunningham. Mr. Tom Cunningham will be working with all 

 6 of you to receive questions and to distribute the 
 7 microphone. 

 8 So that's our team here and there are other members 

 9 of our team in the audience today, but I'm going to turn 

 10 the microphone over to the audience at this point so we 

 11 can all introduce ourselves. 

 12 As I mentioned yesterday, these consultations are 

 13 transcribed and the purpose of transcription is so that 

 14 others may benefit from the comments that are provided. 

 15 There will be a transcript developed a little bit down 
 16 the road, but more than that, the comments received and 

 17 the transcription will be part of our deliberative 

 18 process. We take very seriously the comments we receive 

 19 both at consultations and through other submissions and 

 20 we review and discuss and evaluate all comments before 

 21 moving forward on a decision point. 

 22 So because our consultations are transcribed, 

 23 please state your name, your tribal affiliation, if any, 
 24 and if you're a tribal leader, what nation you 

 25 represent, or if you're a designee of a tribal nation, 
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 1 what tribal nation has designated you as a 

 2 representative. 

 3 So this is, as our vice chair mentioned, an 

 4 outgrowth of government-to-government consultation. Our 

 5 primary purpose here is to hear from tribal leaders and 

 6 their representatives, but we also recognize that there 
 7 may be other people in the room who have perspectives to 

 8 share regarding the overall landscape of Indian gaming. 

 9 We welcome those perspectives, if all tribal leadership 

 10 has had the opportunity to provide perspective and if 

 11 there are no objections from tribal leadership to those 

 12 perspectives being provided. And so with that, others 

 13 are welcome to provide perspectives, but not -- not if 

 14 there's an objection. 

 15 And along a similar line, these -- these 
 16 consultations are closed to media. We want people to 

 17 feel -- to feel free to provide input and comment. At 

 18 the same time, I reiterate that these consultations are 

 19 transcribed, but the transcription will be available 

 20 much later down the road. 

 21 So I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Cunningham who 

 22 can provide a microphone to everyone here and let's all 

 23 get to know each other a little better.
 24 MS. KAISER COLLIER: Good morning, everybody. 

 25 Morning, back there. Barbara Kaiser Collier with the 
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 1 Quapaw Tribal Gaming Agency. I'm the executive director 

 2 and I'm here on behalf of the Quapaw Tribe.

 3 MS. HOMER: Good morning. My name is 

 4 Elizabeth Lohah Homer. I'm a member of the Osage Nation 

 5 of Oklahoma, so I'm just from a few miles up the road 

 6 from Hominy, Oklahoma. I'm very happy to be here in 
 7 Tulsa and I am here today accompanying the Quapaw Tribal 

 8 Gaming Agency.

 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Tyler Tomlinson, Choctaw 

 10 Nation of Oklahoma, technical compliance manager for the 

 11 gaming commission. 

 12 MS. NELSON: Jody Nelson. I work for the 

 13 Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, although I'm a Cherokee 

 14 member and I'm audit manager there.

 15 MS. PENZ: Good morning. I'm Paula Penz, 
 16 gaming commissioner for the Choctaw Nation.

 17 MR. NORMAN: Kyle Norman, project manager, 

 18 Choctaw Gaming Commission.

 19 MS. MYERS: Good morning. Kelly Myers. I am 

 20 with Cherokee Nation Gaming Commission and I'm also here 

 21 on behalf of Iowa Tribe of Oklahoma as their chairperson 

 22 for their gaming commission.

 23 MR. SWITCH: Good morning. My name is Kelly 
 24 Switch. I'm with the Absentee Shawnee Tribe, member of 

 25 the Absentee Shawnee Tribe. I'm with the Absentee 
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 1 Shawnee Gaming Commission as the deputy commissioner.

 2 MS. BUTLER WOLFE: Good morning, everyone. 

 3 I'm Edwina Butler Wolfe, governor of the Absentee 

 4 Shawnee Tribe.

 5 MR. HITCHOCK: Jeff Hitchcock, Wyandotte 

 6 Nation Gaming Commission.
 7 MR. BURRIGHT: Jered Burright, IT manager for 

 8 the Muscogee Creek Nation.

 9 MR. ADAMS: Charlie Adams, the compliance and 

 10 surveillance manager for the Muscogee Creek Nation.

 11 MR. YORK: I'm Buddy York. I'm gaming 

 12 commissioner for the Muscogee Creek Nation.

 13 MS. GIBSON: Jackie Gibson, executive director 

 14 for the Muscogee Creek Nation. 

 15 MR. MORGAN: Good morning. Matthew Morgan, 
 16 director of gaming affairs, Chickasaw Nation.

 17 MR. BRYNE: Happy Friday, everybody. Billy 

 18 Bryne, director of audit, Poarch Band Creek Indians.

 19 MS. COZZONI: Shannon Cozzoni, Northern 

 20 District of Oklahoma, United States Attorney's Office.

 21 MS. ECHOHAWK: Good morning again. Lael 

 22 Echohawk. I'm here on behalf of Seminole Tribe of 

 23 Florida Band of Pueblo Indians and the Kickapoo Tribes 
 24 of Texas.

 25 MS. MORAGO: Good morning. Sheila Morago, 
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 1 executive director Oklahoma Indian Gaming Association.

 2 MR. MOODY: Brian Moody, NIGC Tulsa region. 

 3 MR. LARNEY: Jeremy Larney, gaming 

 4 commissioner, Seminole Nation of Oklahoma.

 5 MR. LAURENZANA: Rudy Laurenzana, chief gaming 

 6 regulator, Seminole Nation Gaming Agency.
 7 MR. HALE: Terry Hale, compliance manager, 

 8 Seminole Nation Gaming Agency.

 9 MS. DAN: Billie Dan, director of compliance 

 10 Seminole Nation Gaming Enterprise.

 11 MR. FRAZIER: Arlo Frazier, Pawnee Nation 

 12 Gaming Commission.

 13 MS. MODRICH-ALVARADO: (Speaking in native 

 14 language.) Mary Modrich-Alvarado with NIGC, Office of 

 15 General Counsel.
 16 MS. OBER: Good morning. Marci Ober with the 

 17 NIGC in the Tulsa region.

 18 MS. BLAKELY: Miranda Blakely, NIGC Tulsa 

 19 region.

 20 MR. BADGER: Austin Badger, staff attorney, 

 21 NIGC. 

 22 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And I thank you again for 

 23 taking the time to be here today. So a few housekeeping 
 24 topics before we move on to receive informal comments. 

 25 We're scheduled to go to 1 p.m. today. However, this 
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 1 consultation may end early if all comments have been 

 2 made, if everybody has had an opportunity to speak. 

 3 As I always say, there is no crime in finishing 

 4 early, and even though we have a lot of topics to cover, 

 5 you know, our consultations often finish early. So 

 6 please feel free to speak your mind, say whatever you 
 7 want, but there's no need to fill up the entire 

 8 consultation time. 

 9 I want to remind everybody about our upcoming 

 10 consultation dates. Please encourage your cohorts, your 

 11 colleagues to attend our upcoming consultations, because 

 12 consultation isn't one bite at the apple type of 

 13 situation. Comments and perspectives evolve over time. 

 14 We recognize that. 

 15 As we move forward with some of the topics that 
 16 we're discussing, as we heard yesterday, additional 

 17 analysis takes place, additional reports are submitted. 

 18 I want there to be multiple -- we all want there to be 

 19 multiple opportunities to provide valuable perspective 

 20 and feedback, both through attendance and verbal 

 21 comments, but also in writing. 

 22 At the end of June, we're going to collect all 

 23 comments, review all comments and all comments received 
 24 through June will be part of our deliberation process 

 25 for the next step in some of the -- some of the 
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 1 consultation deliverables that we always try to proceed 

 2 with. 

 3 I think we're on record saying whenever we have 

 4 consultations, we do our best to make sure that we have 

 5 done our level best to produce deliverables on past 

 6 topics and we have some announcements coming down the 
 7 road regarding some previous consultation topics. 

 8 For this series of consultations, at the end of 

 9 June, we'll be compiling and collecting all comments. 

 10 So these upcoming consultation dates are important and 

 11 if you can encourage your colleagues to attend those, 

 12 we'd greatly appreciate it. 

 13 April 5th at the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian 

 14 Community; April 13th, in conjunction with the National 

 15 Indian Gaming Association's conference in San Diego; 
 16 April 20th at the Northern Hotel in Billings, Montana. 

 17 One of our early promises was to have a consultation in 

 18 Montana at some point, and we've had consultations in 

 19 the past in Rapid City and St. Paul. We're proud to be 

 20 hosting a consultation in Montana. 

 21 May 4th, in conjunction with the Southern Gaming 

 22 Summit in Biloxi, Mississippi; May 22nd, to be held in 

 23 conjunction with the Affiliated Tribes of the Northwest 
 24 Indians at a date to be determined. So we would 

 25 appreciate you -- your possible attendance, but also 
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 1 your passing the word on to your colleagues. 

 2 So we have a number of topics that we're going to 

 3 cover today. Let me go through them briefly and talk 

 4 about who the subject matter expert is. At the end of 

 5 each topic, we're going to hear comments, receive input. 

 6 We -- we see our consultations as a two-way street, a 
 7 dialogue. 

 8 Whenever possible, we'll -- we'll respond to any 

 9 questions and engage. We have our subject matter 

 10 experts here to -- you know, to weigh in as well, but 

 11 we'll receive comments at the end of each topic, at the 

 12 end, in case you folks want to add some final comments 

 13 and we'll -- we'll go through a kind of catch-all 

 14 section. 

 15 But before we move forward, I understand that some 
 16 people may have planes to catch. I know one member of 

 17 our team had to make arrangements to fly out early. If 

 18 anybody wants to get or needs to get a comment on the 

 19 record early in order to catch a plane, please let us 

 20 know at this time and we'll allow -- we'll have that 

 21 comment on the record before we kind of get into the 

 22 meat of the consultation. 

 23 Does anybody have a plane to catch that they need 
 24 to get a comment on the record right now? 

 25 Okay. With that, for rural outreach, we'll have 
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 1 Christinia Thomas providing background information. 

 2 For our developing a strong tribal work force 

 3 through training topic, we'll have our training manager, 

 4 Mr. Steve Brewer, provide background. 

 5 For our management contract portion of our 

 6 discussion, we'll have our finance director, Ms. Yvonne 
 7 Lee. 

 8 For our technical standards for mobile gaming 

 9 devices we'll have our technology director, Mr. Travis 

 10 Waldo. 

 11 For our fees discussion, we'll have Ms. Yvonne Lee 

 12 again give comments. 

 13 And regarding our draft guidance, our draft 

 14 voluntary, voluntary, voluntary guidance regarding Class 

 15 III minimum internal controls -- did I say they're 
 16 voluntary -- voluntary, non-binding, draft, non-binding, 

 17 voluntary guidance regarding Class III MICS, we'll have 

 18 Christinia Thomas provide some background on those 

 19 draft, voluntary, non-binding Class III MICS. 

 20 So with that, I'm going to start us off with rural 

 21 outreach and turn it over to our deputy chief of staff, 

 22 Christinia Thomas, and we'll receive comments after her 

 23 short presentation. 
 24 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you, Chairman. 

 25 The NIGC would like to consult with you on our rural 
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 1 outreach initiative and ask specifically for discussion 

 2 and comments on, one, whether regulatory revisions are 

 3 needed that protect tribal gaming revenue and the 

 4 integrity of Indian gaming, while not burdening smaller 

 5 operations; two, whether NIGC should adjust the way we 

 6 do business, such as our training technical assistance 
 7 compliance efforts to provide better assistance where 

 8 needed; and, finally, whether the NIGC should create an 

 9 eighth region to provide a stronger connection to tribes 

 10 located in North and South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming. 

 11 We all know in Indian country that generally most 

 12 of our tribal lands are in rural areas. Reaching out to 

 13 smaller gaming operations that may not be situated in a 

 14 strong market is an important initiative of the agency. 

 15 The NIGC recognizes a likely correlation between 
 16 proximity to large population centers and the viability 

 17 of economic opportunities. Therefore, NIGC appreciates 

 18 that its functions will likely benefit from a greater 

 19 understanding of the -- the unique needs of and 

 20 opportunities available to smaller operations. 

 21 NIGC regulations have historically taken into 

 22 account the needs and capabilities of smaller gaming 

 23 operations. For instance, the MICS and accounting 
 24 requirements differ between Tier A facilities earning 

 25 lease than 8 million, Tier B facilities earning between 
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 1 8 and 15 million, and Tier C facilities earning 15 

 2 million -- over 15 million.

 3 The majority of tribal gaming operations are 

 4 smaller facilities with lower gross gaming revenue. 

 5 Many small rural gaming operations provide their 

 6 communities with much needed jobs, but earn little net 
 7 revenue for their tribal government. NIGC provides 

 8 technical assistance and training to all tribes and 

 9 enforces and its regulations as necessary to ensure 

 10 tribes are the primary beneficiaries of their gaming 

 11 operations. 

 12 The Commission also has a responsibility to review 

 13 the regulations to assure that compliance is responsible 

 14 and achievable for all tribes while protecting the 

 15 integrity of gaming as a whole. The NGIC may find 
 16 through this consultation and comment period that 

 17 current regulations require amendments to better address 

 18 the regulatory needs of smaller operations. 

 19 In a separate component of the rural outreach 

 20 initiative, the commission is further considering 

 21 creating an eighth region and expanding the Rapid City 

 22 satellite office to serve it. The NIGC St. Paul 

 23 regional office currently covers nine states, 59 tribes 
 24 and 144 gaming facilities, and is the largest 

 25 administrative region of the agency. 
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 1 In 2003, the Rapid City satellite office was added 

 2 to the St. Paul region to aid the region in reaching the 

 3 tribal gaming operations in North Dakota, South Dakota, 

 4 Wyoming and Montana. 

 5 Under this new plan, the St. Paul regional office 

 6 would then cover only five states; Minnesota, Iowa, 
 7 Wisconsin, Michigan and Nebraska, 37 tribes, and 95 

 8 gaming facilities. The new Rapid City regional office 

 9 would then cover four states; Montana, Wyoming, North 

 10 Dakota and South Dakota, 22 tribes and 45 tribal gaming 

 11 operations. 

 12 The NIGC would like to hear any questions, comments 

 13 or concerns regarding this plan. Thank you.

 14 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Ms. Thomas. 

 15 So we'll open it up for questions and comments now. If 
 16 there are questions, we'll do our best to answer them, 

 17 you know, on the spot. If we need to get back to you, 

 18 we'll always be up front about our need to get back to 

 19 you, so with that. 

 20 And Mr. Cunningham will be here with the 

 21 microphone.

 22 MR. YORK: Just one quick question I might 

 23 have on the thing. As far as the budgetary deal, would 
 24 this take away from our region resources or anything in 

 25 any way?
 20

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I don't believe so. 

 2 There -- we haven't done an actual study. A lot of --

 3 efficiency is very important to the agency, so a lot of 

 4 the services that are provided to all of the regions are 

 5 shared between regional offices and headquarters. And 

 6 so there are a lot of services that really aren't 
 7 impacted by the region that is requesting work. 

 8 Our office of general counsel is located in 

 9 Washington D.C. We support our regional teams in the 

 10 field. The split -- and it's not really a split. It's 

 11 the creation of a new office won't impact certainly in 

 12 any way the services provided by headquarters. And 

 13 there -- you know, we do our best to balance our 

 14 budgetary realities with our agency operations, and we 

 15 haven't done a market study on that, but I don't -- I 
 16 don't foresee any impact to Oklahoma City. 

 17 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: And I'll add to that. 

 18 So our regional offices that are currently existing, 

 19 we're not changing the staffing levels there at all. So 

 20 your regional office and the staff that's at those 

 21 regional offices won't change with this proposal of 

 22 adding Rapid City as a region.

 23 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Mr. York. And 
 24 if I could ask folks, just for the benefit of the 

 25 transcriptionist, if there are any comments, just, you 
 21

 1 know, when you look at the transcript, it's just a bunch 

 2 of black and white letters. If we can just, again, 

 3 mention our names and our communities when we provide 

 4 comments, and just for purposes of the transcription. 

 5 MS. ECHOHAWK: Laela Echohawk from Hobbs, 

 6 Straus, Dean & Walker. Just a question, I don't know if 
 7 you've already done it, but to evaluate how would that 

 8 expand the staffing levels at Rapid City and would the 

 9 staffing levels in St. Paul decrease? What does that 

 10 look like in terms of budgets? 

 11 I know that tribes are very conscious, you guys's 

 12 budget is obviously based on the fees that our -- that 

 13 the tribes send in, so I don't know if you've done that, 

 14 but if you haven't -- if you haven't, it would be great 

 15 to see and maybe, you know, include some of this 
 16 information at next consultations.

 17 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And, thank you, 

 18 Ms. Echohawk. I think I'll turn it over to Ms. Thomas 

 19 again, but staffing levels we've anticipated -- we 

 20 always try to staff according to needs. I think we've 

 21 been pretty up front about the agency's commitment to 

 22 supporting tribal beneficiary status, to supporting the 

 23 primary regulatory status of tribal regulators. And so 
 24 we've -- we've tried to enhance our team in accordance 

 25 to that. 
 22

 1 So we've talked about gamesmanship over the last 

 2 year. We've added a couple new compliance officers who 

 3 will, you know, be part of the overall staffing of the 

 4 agency, but our staffing has been in line with our 

 5 budget, our funding levels and our priorities. 

 6 I don't know if you want to provide any additional 
 7 details about this one. 

 8 MS. THOMAS: No, just that even the St. Paul 

 9 regional office would not go down, the staff that's 

 10 actually assigned to the regional office. The staff 

 11 that's assigned to the Rapid City satellite office 

 12 currently would stay with that office. 

 13 We would be adding an additional regional director 

 14 and additional administrative staff to assist that 

 15 region as well. And then I did want to point out that 
 16 our rural outreach coordinator would actually be tied to 

 17 that regional office as well. She's currently in 

 18 Billings, Montana.

 19 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And I think it would be 

 20 helpful to restate that rural outreach is a recognition 

 21 of the fact that we have a responsibility at the agency 

 22 to support the integrity of the entire Indian gaming 

 23 structure, to support Indian country's work and 
 24 supporting the integrity of the entire Indian gaming 

 25 structure. So I believe everybody involved in Indian 
 23

 1 gaming has an interest in supporting smaller and rural 

 2 -- rural operations as well, because the health of the 

 3 industry depends on the health of facilities both large 

 4 and small. 

 5 And so that's why, you know, given the geographic 

 6 size of the region that St. Paul currently covers as 
 7 well as the number of rural and small facilities located 

 8 throughout the region, that an additional office west of 

 9 St. Paul is probably pretty wise. It's huge, and if you 

 10 talk about plane, flight distances, driving distances, 

 11 having sufficient coverage of the facilities in the --

 12 in the plains region is necessary, and so that's what 

 13 we're looking at. 

 14 Rural outreach is one of -- kind of our primary --

 15 primary priorities, you know, along with a strong work 
 16 force protecting against gamesmanship on the backs of 

 17 tribes and staying ahead of the technology curve, and we 

 18 see this as an outgrowth of that commitment. Thank you 

 19 for that question, Ms. Echohawk.

 20 MS. HOMER: It's just a question -- Elizabeth 

 21 Homer. It's just a question. Do you -- I mean, that is 

 22 a very large -- a large area. Has there been any 

 23 thought given to instead of creating a single regional 
 24 office, to create multiple field offices?

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And I don't know if any 
 24

 1 of the other members of the team wanted to address this. 

 2 We do have -- and that's an excellent question, 

 3 Ms. Homer. We do have field offices. I think, as 

 4 Ms. Thomas mentioned, the Rapid City office is a field 

 5 office at this time, but being able to have the 

 6 administrative infrastructure to coordinate with the 
 7 office of general counsel from a regional director level 

 8 to -- to the point -- point person at OGC to coordinate 

 9 with the compliance division, you know, elevating that 

 10 office to an actual regional -- regional office is 

 11 helpful for a number of administrative reasons, but 

 12 where needed, we do have point people in the field to 

 13 operate out of field offices. 

 14 Another good example is our -- our rural outreach 

 15 coordinator is currently located in Billings, Montana to 
 16 help service some of the communities in that area. We 

 17 recognize the rural communities throughout -- throughout 

 18 Indian country and all of the work that we do is, you 

 19 know, needs to support rural outreach in Indian country, 

 20 but that's one of the reasons our rural outreach 

 21 coordinator is located out there. 

 22 But we do have an eye towards trying to develop 

 23 field presence wherever needed given the geographic 
 24 realities of how -- you know, how diverse and how large 

 25 Indian country is. 
 25

 1 MS. THOMAS: So I'll add to that, too, so if 

 2 you add multiple field offices, I'm going to get back to 

 3 the budget question, so adding office space actually 

 4 increases our budget because we have to do all the work 

 5 through GSA. So it is more feasible for us from a 

 6 budgetary perspective to elevate the Rapid City 
 7 satellite office to an actual regional office than to 

 8 create multiple field offices.

 9 MS. HOMER: I guess you have to balance that 

 10 off with the travel expenses, you know, and the time it 

 11 takes to visit everyone and it's a tough -- it's a tough 

 12 problem.

 13 MS. THOMAS: Yeah, it is.

 14 MS. KAISER COLLIER: Barbara Kaiser Collier. 

 15 You know, we -- we do think about our brothers and 
 16 sisters that have that vast majority of land and they're 

 17 really kinda off the main path, beaten path, as you 

 18 might say, so they have a more difficult time, even 

 19 though they do have some revenue trail. 

 20 Have you -- and it's good to bring it to other 

 21 places, but like being an Oklahoma tribe, if I was going 

 22 to expand or want something done in my area, I would 

 23 want all of the tribes to have an input. So I feel like 
 24 perhaps -- I mean, maybe you've done that. All the 

 25 tribes in that area, have you contacted them and 
 26

 1 their -- their hierarchy or commissions and see what 

 2 would work best for them? 

 3 You know, they're there and they know what might be 

 4 better for their area than us here sitting in Oklahoma. 

 5 So I feel like that your people there as well as the 

 6 tribal leaderships that are in those vast areas should 
 7 have major input and maybe be contacted one on one to 

 8 see what would actually work best for them. 

 9 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you, 

 10 Ms. Collier. It's not an accident that we have an 

 11 upcoming consultation in Billings, Montana, and we have 

 12 reached out and very proud of our team. Our compliance 

 13 officers especially, but the regional office as a whole 

 14 has very strong one-on-one relationships with their 

 15 tribal counterparts and so our communications and 
 16 coordinations with our regulatory partners in that area 

 17 are strong in terms of reaching out and discussing, you 

 18 know, issues of mutual concern, but the consultation in 

 19 Billings is an outgrowth of our interest in hearing 

 20 input and hearing perspectives about -- about ongoing, 

 21 you know, anticipated tweaks. 

 22 We recognize that once you formalize a regional 

 23 office, for administrative and bureaucratic reasons, 
 24 that takes on a life of its own. That's just part of 

 25 government, and so we strongly value the input we 
 27

 1 receive from the partners that are affected by it. 

 2 So we've had consultations in Rapid City many, many 

 3 times. I don't know many, but you know, we've had prior 

 4 consultations in Rapid City. Knowing tribes and knowing 

 5 nations that are outside of Rapid City are impacted by 

 6 the services of -- of our Great Plains region, you know, 
 7 help to inform the decision to have consultation outside 

 8 of Rapid City as well. We want to hear all voices in 

 9 those decisions. 

 10 Mr. Cunningham? 

 11 COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM: If I could just add, 

 12 having once been the Tulsa region when we split those 

 13 regions into two, Tulsa and Oklahoma City, the advantage 

 14 that I saw, and I think it's one of the advantages that 

 15 they're considering, is when you take 130 facilities and 
 16 divide that into two or almost two, so if you're one of 

 17 130 and you have an issue and you call the region 

 18 office, you've got to -- you know, you're going to take 

 19 a rank on priority of where the NIGC resources get to 

 20 you. It could be training. Could be investigation. 

 21 Could be a number of issues. 

 22 Well, when you divide that region into two, your 

 23 odds of rising up higher on the priority list go up 
 24 substantially. And that's kinda what we saw in the 

 25 split between Oklahoma and Tulsa, is that having two 
 28

 1 regional directors to manage those issues, it got 

 2 more -- it actually put more resources into both 

 3 regions. And I will leave it to you guys to tell them 

 4 if you think it was beneficial or not.

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Let the transcription 

 6 show there's a lot of head shaking in the "yes" 
 7 direction. Thank you for that comment. Additional 

 8 comments, questions?

 9 MR. MORGAN: Thank you. Matthew Morgan, 

 10 Chickasaw Nation. In looking at the question that 

 11 Ms. Thomas put up there on the rural outreach, I will 

 12 say, you know, Chickasaw Nation will be submitting 

 13 formal or in-depth comments, but just to briefly address 

 14 some of those questions this morning. 

 15 On your first question on the regulatory revisions 
 16 needed for gaming tribe with small rural operations, I 

 17 think a hard look needs to be taken at that. With 

 18 tribes that have other economic development going, the 

 19 impact is not as deep, but it's still hard when there is 

 20 a one-rule-kinda-fits-all decision that comes down, 

 21 especially when you consider the timing of that during 

 22 the budgetary cycle of how you're going to handle that. 

 23 And if that's your only economic development in some of 
 24 the more rural areas, that impact is really great in 

 25 trying to decide how you're going to cover that within 
 29

 1 whatever time is given to be in compliance. 

 2 I think you said it earlier, Mr. Chairman. You 

 3 know, a lot of people -- a lot of tribes' gaming 

 4 facilities in more rural areas and the focus is jobs. 

 5 It's not really profit. It's jobs. You know, it's 

 6 becoming better partners with that community and lending 
 7 assistance there, because you know, you have the tribal 

 8 and non-tribal citizens alike there, but it's becoming 

 9 partnerships and developing and making sure something 

 10 stays, money is turned over. 

 11 Maybe you get lucky and you're creating more of an 

 12 insurance pool that's utilized in the health care 

 13 centers, whatever it is, but it's not really -- you're 

 14 not -- you're not becoming rich off that facility. And 

 15 like you said, the vast majority of tribal gaming is 
 16 those small -- smaller gaming centers across the 

 17 country. 

 18 So I do think some special consideration needs to 

 19 be given anytime we look at new rules and regulations on 

 20 how that's going to impact those facilities, because it 

 21 becomes a difficult balancing act for tribal government, 

 22 tribal leaders when they are trying to decide how they 

 23 want to allocate revenue across many programs and 
 24 services that they offer, because again, it's really 

 25 about employment at that point. 
 30

 1 Should NIGC adjust the way it does business with 

 2 small -- probably, again, it's kinda the same answer. 

 3 They're in a different business mindset than some large. 

 4 You know, we're very blessed in Chickasaw Nation, we 

 5 have multiple facilities. We have very large facilities 

 6 and we have very small facilities as well. Those small 
 7 facilities run the gamut on where they're at. 

 8 You know, does the town have that power supply that 

 9 you need, you know, running into that building? You 

 10 know, does it have some of the services there that 

 11 may -- that you may need? We opened up that, again, for 

 12 jobs in a building that's 20 years old and we've got it 

 13 up to spec that were on the books seven, eight years 

 14 ago, and suddenly those -- those environmental health 

 15 and safety or something raises. There's some particular 
 16 considerations that need to go into that, how we want to 

 17 come to be in compliance with those standards. 

 18 I think that's all a good thing that you've created 

 19 this rural outreach coordinator that really can focus on 

 20 some of these issues, because again, I know that you 

 21 placed it up in Montana, but I think -- if you haven't 

 22 seen it, I invite you to look. OIGA did its last 

 23 economic impact study, and one of the things they were 
 24 looking was the rural impact versus the urban impact 

 25 here in Oklahoma, and you know, what does that mean and 
 31

 1 how do they differ. And I think you'll find some of 

 2 those differences through a lot of regions across the 

 3 country. 

 4 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Mr. Morgan. I 

 5 think that it brings up a lot of thoughts. I don't know 

 6 if anybody wants -- wants to share. 
 7 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: Sequoyah Simermeyer 

 8 with the Commission. Thank you for that comment and the 

 9 earlier comments. I'll take a minute here and say a few 

 10 of my thoughts about some of the comments of the day. 

 11 And I appreciate Mr. Cunningham talking about the unique 

 12 perspective that existed for this particular region for 

 13 process or things that have occurred in the past that 

 14 have helped us to form how we might look at this in 

 15 other parts of the country. So thanks for that, as well 
 16 as the comments that has unique impacts on that part of 

 17 the country as well. So we should be looking at that as 

 18 well. 

 19 So one of the thoughts that I had with the comment 

 20 that just -- Mr. Morgan's comment just now was that in 

 21 looking at other emphasis areas of the Commission and 

 22 the Chairman's leadership early on and I think before 

 23 the vice chair, all those emphasis areas were 
 24 identified, including rural outreach and technology and 

 25 other issues. But there is -- one of the things that 
 32

 1 attracted me to that approach was that the -- often 

 2 times tribal communities, rural or non-rural, the 

 3 technology considerations and decision making processes 

 4 that they go through often impact beyond just the gaming 

 5 operation and really serve as an infrastructure corridor 

 6 for that community. 
 7 So I think it translates well into some of the 

 8 comments that were just made about how a community that 

 9 might not have the opportunity to diversify its -- its 

 10 revenue or other issues might have unique considerations 

 11 in how they are looking at their decision making 

 12 processes so that, as partners, we want to avoid from 

 13 the federal side a one-size-fits-all approach in taking 

 14 the opportunity to develop a process to look at the 

 15 unique needs of each community and how they have 
 16 structured their vision and how they're going to execute 

 17 their goals to their citizens is really important in 

 18 structuring that around perhaps rural outreach.

 19 And then a final thought of some of the earlier 

 20 comments about the budgetary process, and I appreciate 

 21 those comments, and you know, each of us -- one of the 

 22 decision making roles that we each have on the 

 23 Commission is the budget process and we'll talk a little 
 24 bit later on I think in this consultation series 

 25 about -- about fees and how we approach that. But you 
 33

 1 know, from my perspective opportunities to engage more 

 2 and have input and thought are very important and it's a 

 3 matter of good governance. And so I appreciate those 

 4 comments that are being made today in this specific part 

 5 of the consultation.

 6 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And excellent comment, 
 7 and echo everything Commissioner Simermeyer just said. 

 8 The jobs creator role of the majority of tribal gaming 

 9 facilities is not lost on us, and we want to do whatever 

 10 we can to support the regulatory efforts of communities 

 11 that may not always have, you know, the largest IT 

 12 departments or the largest regulatory bodies, but we see 

 13 a benefit to supporting the overall framework of Indian 

 14 gaming and that that framework benefits all parts, all 

 15 members of that, large and small, and so if there are, 
 16 you know, any issues anywhere in Indian gaming that 

 17 affects everybody and so we are committed to doing 

 18 whatever we can through our regulatory mission to 

 19 support small rural operations. 

 20 And so this isn't a one bite at the apple 

 21 consultation. If there are other things that we can do 

 22 as we move forward as an agency to support newer 

 23 possibly start-up operations, we always -- we already 
 24 have quite a few trainings for start-up facilities, for 

 25 new facilities, but if there is anything that we can do 
 34

 1 to support newer or rural facilities, please let us 

 2 know. 

 3 You know, we have certainly a lot of our emphasis 

 4 on the technology side. We provide, you know, 

 5 vulnerability assessments free of charge, which I think 

 6 are especially beneficial to newer or smaller 
 7 facilities. We provide a number of trainings that I 

 8 think help in terms of not just regulation, but 

 9 governance issues that tribal nations face, but beyond 

 10 that, when we look at the challenges that rural -- that 

 11 rural communities face, sometimes there are related 

 12 issues, whether they be telecom or connectivity that we 

 13 may be able to help facilitate dialogue with other 

 14 members of the federal family, that even though there 

 15 may not be a direct issue in our regulatory lane, we may 
 16 provide a resource to some of those communities who are 

 17 seeking to expand their infrastructure across the board. 

 18 And so we want to be helpful and we want this to be 

 19 an ongoing conversation. So the Rapid City office is an 

 20 important part of that, but everything we're doing as an 

 21 agency, we want to make sure supports rural and newer 

 22 facilities because we're all in it together. If there 

 23 are compliance challenges, if there are operational 
 24 challenges, if there are market challenges that that 

 25 smaller or rural facilities face, we understand that 
 35

 1 impacts everyone in Indian gaming. And certainly the 

 2 impact on jobs, the work that OIGA has done and its 

 3 analysis, the economic study that NIGA has put forward, 

 4 we are -- you know, it's important for us to recognize 

 5 in all stages the impact on jobs, both for Indian 

 6 country and surrounding communities in everything we do, 
 7 and so that's part of our commitment to rural outreach. 

 8 So thank you for that comment, Mr. Morgan. Okay. 

 9 We have a number of topics to cover, but I 

 10 always -- I want everyone to feel that all 

 11 opportunity -- that everybody has had every opportunity 

 12 to share. Are there any additional comments on this 

 13 topic before we move forward with our next topic? 

 14 And I know it's a long consultation schedule. It's 

 15 9 -- almost 9:30 right now. If we can shoot for a short 
 16 five-minute break at 10:15 in case anybody needs to use 

 17 the facilities or just stretch, we'll shoot for a 10:15 

 18 break. 

 19 But with that, we'll move on to our next topic, 

 20 unless there are any other comments that anyone wants to 

 21 submit, which is developing a strong tribal work force 

 22 through training, and we'll turn it over to our training 

 23 manager, Mr. Steve Brewer. 
 24 COMMISSIONER BREWER: Good morning. As 

 25 Jonodev said, my name is Steve Brewer. I'm the training 
 36

 1 manager for the National Indian Gaming Commission. A 

 2 strong work force is an essential ingredient to the 

 3 success of any business. The NIGC believes one of our 

 4 best assets is our employees and recognize that this is 

 5 also the case for tribal gaming operations. 

 6 With this in mind, the Commission is prioritized to 
 7 supporting a strong work force both within NIGC and 

 8 among our tribal regulatory partners as one of its four 

 9 initiatives. In order to foster a strong tribal work 

 10 force, the NIGC seeks to enhance our external training 

 11 program and ensure that it continues to meet the needs 

 12 and demands of the industry. 

 13 To that end, we take this opportunity to update you 

 14 on the direction and commitment of our training program 

 15 and to consult with you about how we can deliver a 
 16 better training program to meet the needs of our tribal 

 17 regulatory partners. 

 18 Currently, the NIGC offers three types of training 

 19 events: The regional training conferences. These are 

 20 based on and derived from our training catalogue and are 

 21 based on the needs of the region where training is 

 22 occurring. We also have the regulating gaming 

 23 technology, which is geared towards providing both an 
 24 understanding of our variety of technologies on a casino 

 25 floor and strategies on how to effectively regulate and 
 37

 1 understand such technology. 

 2 It should be noted that the RGT training for 2017 

 3 has been suspended to allow time to revamp the training 

 4 to make sure new technologies are included, and it is 

 5 anticipated that the new RGT will start in 2018. 

 6 Finally, we provide site specific trainings. These 
 7 trainings are trainings that are requested by a tribe to 

 8 meet the individual needs of its tribal government, 

 9 gaming commission regulators and operators. 

 10 The NIGC has developed some assessment tools that 

 11 tribes can request at no cost. The first assessment 

 12 opportunity is the information technology vulnerability 

 13 assessment or ITVA for short. The ITVA is performed by 

 14 the division of technology who completes a vulnerability 

 15 assessment of a facility's IT system to identify 
 16 potential security threats. 

 17 The second type of assessment is an internal 

 18 control assessment or ICA performed by the audit staff. 

 19 This could be a comprehensive review of a tribal gaming 

 20 facility's entire system of internal controls or it 

 21 could be a specific system, such as an internal audit 

 22 review. Based on the identifying -- findings identified 

 23 in either a completed ITVA or ICA, the training program 
 24 can then offer and develop training specific for that 

 25 tribe. 
 38

 1 All NIGC training is developed to support our 

 2 tribal customers. The training request process is used 

 3 to shape and deliver training courses and programs that 

 4 are uniquely tailored to each organization based on 

 5 their specific needs and requests. 

 6 The NIGC training program is currently undergoing a 
 7 process to revamp, revise and update all our training 

 8 offerings. The NIGC is committed to craft trainings 

 9 that are carefully targeted to meet the evolving needs 

 10 of our regulatory partners and address high priority 

 11 matters critical to safeguarding the Indian gaming 

 12 industry.

 13 In this manner, the NIGC training program is in the 

 14 process of revising its instructor-lead training courses 

 15 to provide a more interactive and hands-on experience. 
 16 As a commitment to the value we put on training, we have 

 17 recently brought in additional staff to help develop our 

 18 training platform and assist with incorporating new 

 19 methods of training. 

 20 Additionally, we will utilize more technology in 

 21 our training offerings. We are working towards offering 

 22 an online, on-demand training to allow for live video 

 23 conferencing events. 
 24 With the kickoff of our current training unit, the

 25 NIGC has developed new training classes, including a 
 39

 1 12-hour comprehensive training for internal audit, a 

 2 12-hour hands-on workshop for TICS, SICS development, a 

 3 new gamesmanship 2.0 training, and a new IT training 

 4 related to the auditing of the Class II control 

 5 standards as it relates to Part 543.20. Each training 

 6 is designed to be interactive and take a hands-on 
 7 approach. 

 8 We're in the process of revising our full training 

 9 catalogue to reflect these new training opportunities. 

 10 Additionally, in 2016, the NIGC instituted knowledge 

 11 reviews in certain audit courses. The intent of the 

 12 knowledge review is to review the effectiveness of our 

 13 training. 

 14 This testing is performed in two points: First, 

 15 upon completion of a training class to understand what 
 16 the students learn, and a second test is performed 90 

 17 days later to see if the student retained the 

 18 information. 

 19 For 2017, the NIGC is expanding the knowledge 

 20 review for all courses offered by the NIGC. The NIGC is 

 21 interested in learning from you about what our training 

 22 program can do to meet the needs of your operations, 

 23 what additional types of trainings or events you'd like 
 24 to see, what more can our training program do to help 

 25 tribes stay abreast of emerging trends in Indian gaming, 
 40

 1 including technological developments such as online and 

 2 on-demand training, smart phone or tablet apps or other 

 3 technology? Or if you have any other comments or 

 4 concerns you would like to share, we look forward to 

 5 hearing your input and questions. Thank you.

 6 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you, Steve. So 
 7 comments and questions on that? This is an exciting 

 8 part of the consultation for me. A lot of our trainings 

 9 are specifically tweaked because of the comments 

 10 received from Indian country, and so we're always open 

 11 to input and guidance, but we're really looking forward 

 12 to kind of setting some clear benchmarks about our 

 13 training program as we move forward, you know, down the 

 14 road. 

 15 So very much look forward to input here. Looking 
 16 around the room, I'm just thinking about the impact that 

 17 certain comments have made -- been made. I see one 

 18 person, individual -- I mean, in particular. I don't 

 19 want to throw her under the bus unless she wants to go 

 20 on record, but she very much helped -- helped inform 

 21 our -- even though this isn't technically training, but 

 22 our vulnerability assessments, the need to support 

 23 communities that don't have full, you know -- or that 
 24 have smaller IT services, Francine Dupuis. 

 25 MS. DUPUIS: Dupuis.
 41

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Francine Dupuis. I 

 2 remember early conversations with the Commission 

 3 regarding, hey, many community's vendors effectively 

 4 provide IT services. I'm, like, well, what support can 

 5 we do. And really thank Travis and his team for kind of 

 6 really developing a program that's perfectly tailored to 
 7 -- to those needs. 

 8 Same thing with training. You know, gamesmanship, 

 9 a lot of our specific trainings come from comments in 

 10 the field. So if anybody has any specific comments now 

 11 or later, please let us know about how we can tweak our 

 12 trainings and very happy that Steve has set us on a very 

 13 good path.

 14 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: Excuse me. Jamie 

 15 Hummingbird, Cherokee Nation. I want to applaud the 
 16 NIGC for the efforts that they've taken for increasing 

 17 and expanding their training programs. That is one area 

 18 that I've been advocating for the NIGC to take up for a 

 19 very long time, just simply because, as you mentioned, 

 20 tribes across the country have varying degrees of 

 21 capabilities when it comes to technology, maybe even 

 22 just coming down to budgetary issues and staffing. 

 23 So the -- having that type of training be easily 
 24 accessible is a critical component for all tribes. 

 25 One thing -- and, Steve, I apologize if I missed 
 42

 1 something. When you were talking about being able to 

 2 possibly look at online or something not in person, 

 3 let's just put it that way, does that contemplate also 

 4 doing trainings sort of in the style of YouTube where 

 5 you would be able to have a training on a subject that 

 6 could be accessed via the NIGC website or is it 
 7 something that is just going to be a static downloadable 

 8 type presentation? 

 9 MR. BREWER: That's a great question, Jamie. 

 10 One of the things that we're looking at is we're looking 

 11 at creating our own YouTube channel, you know, recording 

 12 some of our trainings and then placing them on a YouTube 

 13 channel so it would be something that you could watch. 

 14 We're also talking about interactive training by 

 15 developing a learning management system where it's --
 16 you know, you go in and it could be multiple different 

 17 types of aspects from video to PowerPoint to, you know, 

 18 voice over with questions and going to that interactive 

 19 approach of training like you see on some of the other 

 20 LMS for education.

 21 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: Just a quick follow-up. 

 22 Jamie Hummingbird again. Two -- actually, two 

 23 questions. One is, would the -- would it be possible 
 24 for some expanded training offerings on the IT side? 

 25 And I'll point it to Travis and his group. They've done 
 43

 1 a great job up to now getting things kinda brought up to 

 2 date with respect to certain aspects of the operation. 

 3 One of the things that I see, and it may be already 

 4 in the works, is we tend to focus a lot on the machine 

 5 and the system itself. One of the things I think may be 

 6 lurking in the background is the other issues we talked 
 7 about, the internal -- excuse me, the vulnerability 

 8 assessment, which is good and gets us part of the way 

 9 towards assessing network security and vulnerability 

 10 that way. 

 11 Is there any plans to expand training in that area 

 12 or any offerings in the network security type area?

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And before Travis weighs 

 14 in on this, I do want to just take my hat off to Travis 

 15 and Steve in terms of -- of the way that they work 
 16 together. So obviously training and the positive 

 17 direction training takes needs to be supported by a 

 18 larger technology, you know, vision and Travis has 

 19 provided that vision. 

 20 You know, I mentioned Francine -- Francine's input 

 21 regarding technology as a whole. That was early on that 

 22 helped inform the emphasis on technology. The 

 23 vulnerability assessment was Travis's brain child. I 
 24 really gotta give Travis massive credit for that, but 

 25 the work that Travis is doing on the technology side and 
 44

 1 the work Steve is doing on the training side, they go 

 2 hand in hand. 

 3 So it's a perfect question. Just wanted to mention 

 4 that and take my hat off to those two before Travis 

 5 weighs in. 

 6 COMMISSIONER WALDO: Thank you, Jamie. We are 
 7 actually looking at some expansion of that, but we have 

 8 to kinda limit what we can do because we end up putting 

 9 our hands on systems that we shouldn't really probably 

 10 touch. So we can't get in that break-fix situation, but 

 11 we're looking at some non-industry specific training --

 12 or excuse me, non-vendor specific industry standard type 

 13 trainings, the CISSP for network security. There's some 

 14 stuff in there that we're kinda looking at maybe 

 15 incorporating. 
 16 I'm looking at kind of expanding the vulnerability 

 17 assessment a little bit with some different types of 

 18 scans and some software that we could use, but again, we 

 19 always have to stop short of actually doing a physical 

 20 PIN test and we have to stop on the -- you know, just on 

 21 the assessment side of that, but as far as training 

 22 goes, we can tailor training to just about anything, you 

 23 know, someone needs. 
 24 If someone or a small operation has a specific need 

 25 for network security training, or you know, some 
 45

 1 information on, you know, network security training, you 

 2 know, with specific vendors, we can tailor to that. We 

 3 certainly could.

 4 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: And finally, Mr. Chairman, 

 5 one last point to -- Jamie Hummingbird again. And I 

 6 understand that the things can be tailored. I like that 
 7 aspect. I would just encourage you and Steve as you are 

 8 going through and deciding these training programs to 

 9 keep people like me in mind that don't know come here 

 10 from sic 'em when it comes to a great deal of the 

 11 technology. 

 12 What I'm saying is keep in mind people that have 

 13 varying levels of understanding of the technology aspect 

 14 and -- because back in my day, I knew computers 

 15 backwards and forwards. Today, I'm lucky if I can turn 
 16 it on. So keep people -- people's degree of proficiency 

 17 in mind.

 18 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: That's an excellent 

 19 point, Chairman, and he's got me to deal with on a daily 

 20 basis, so he's used to breaking things down into short 

 21 sentences and using small words, so we're working on 

 22 that.

 23 MR. BREWER: The one thing I'd like to add if 
 24 I could quickly is a lot of the new trainings that have 

 25 been developed through the training program is directly 
 46

 1 as a result of the feedback that we've gotten from the 

 2 tribes themselves in our regional training conferences. 

 3 Specifically, the regional guidance on the issues was --

 4 was a course that was developed based on comments that 

 5 we received here in Oklahoma as to why were we not 

 6 giving specific information to the specific region and 
 7 just kinda more of a broad overview of the regulations. 

 8 And so whenever we get our evaluations back from 

 9 the RTCs, I go through it and I look at it, and I've 

 10 gotten some really great ideas and that's kind of what 

 11 caught -- it's kinda continuing the training program to 

 12 advance. It's based on the comments. So we -- I agree 

 13 with you. I think best practices and breaking things 

 14 down is the best approach for getting everybody up to a 

 15 higher level. Thank you.
 16 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for those 

 17 comments. Additional comments on this topic? Okay. 

 18 Any additional --

 19 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: I just wanted to --

 20 as folks are considering this consultation series for 

 21 these next couple of months, two things that, for me, 

 22 would be helpful to hear more about and to keep thinking 

 23 about is kinda what unique role can be played in -- in 
 24 kind of facilitating these dialogues, understanding 

 25 there might be kind of regional differences or capacity 
 47

 1 differences that might exist between operations, but if 

 2 you have thoughts on that, I think that would -- from 

 3 operations, be -- to be beneficial. 

 4 And also to keep in mind, I think in the 

 5 presentation or the earlier comments that was made, I 

 6 appreciate significantly is, you know, the call for how 
 7 we can assess and benchmark and understand the impact 

 8 that our actions are having on the regulatory community 

 9 and the ability to read articles, so ...

 10 MR. SWITCH: All right. Okay. My name is 

 11 Seisman (phonetic) Switch and I have one question, 

 12 Mr. Chairman. NIGC has developed its training program. 

 13 Later on in the future, on down the road, will the NIGC 

 14 be focusing towards tribes requiring these to qualify or 

 15 yearly inspections to make sure the tribes are doing 
 16 these trainings or anything like that? Is there 

 17 anything like that, such as developing these training 

 18 programs, beefing up the training which it's providing 

 19 in the fashion you-all are doing now? Are there 

 20 anything like that be coming up in the future?

 21 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And, sir, are you 

 22 speaking about certification or requiring certain 

 23 certifications?
 24 MR. SWITCH: Yeah, requiring certifications. 

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I don't know if Steve or 
 48

 1 Christinia want to speak to that, but our trainings at 

 2 this point are voluntary and --

 3 MS. THOMAS: So we are actually required by 

 4 statute to provide training, so that's why we put such 

 5 emphasis on our training program. And I'm going to 

 6 reiterate that Steve and Travis together have actually 
 7 upped our standard for training and what we provide, but 

 8 no, at this time, we are not looking at making any 

 9 requirements or certifications for tribes for the 

 10 training that we provide.

 11 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And just to add to that, 

 12 there's a general statutory -- I mean, I think all 

 13 credit goes to Indian country who worked to amend NIGRA 

 14 to put in a training aspect into our mission, but 

 15 what -- what we've done with that is we've elevated it 
 16 to, you know, a fundamental priority in the agency and 

 17 it's -- it's, you know, the utmost importance to us 

 18 because it informs everything we do. 

 19 So even in terms of the ongoing compliance side of 

 20 our functions, we're committed to the notion that doing 

 21 whatever we can on the front end to support tribal 

 22 regulatory efforts through training to avoid compliance 

 23 issues is the most efficient way to -- to achieve 
 24 compliance. And, of course, we're -- we're -- we never 

 25 shirk from our responsibilities to address compliance 
 49

 1 issues on the back end, but just part of our philosophy 

 2 as an agency is to do whatever we can to listen to the 

 3 needs of our regulatory partners and to tailor our 

 4 trainings accordingly. 

 5 So that's inherently voluntary. That's inherently 

 6 a two-way street in terms of listening to our tribal 
 7 partners, figuring out what the needs are from other 

 8 regulatory bodies and tailoring our training 

 9 appropriately. We -- we don't have a requirement that 

 10 mandates certain trainings because there are other 

 11 functions of the agency that are in place to ensure 

 12 compliance, and those other functions, you know, involve 

 13 other authorities of the agency. 

 14 We see training as a two-way hand-in-hand operation 

 15 where needs are discussed. We tailor our trainings 
 16 accordingly and that serves the entire community better 

 17 to work better on the front end rather than the back 

 18 end. So that's kinda how we approach trainings. It's 

 19 voluntary in nature. Thank you. Excellent question. 

 20 Thank you, sir.

 21 MR. YORK: Thank you. Buddy York with 

 22 Muscogee Creek Nation Gaming Commission. Just a quick 

 23 comment on the training. We have -- and they do provide 
 24 us with any type of training that we request. That's 

 25 not a problem. One of the things I would like to see is 
 50

 1 maybe have training for, like you say, from A to Z, from 

 2 start to finish, but a lot of times, we have a lot of 

 3 turnover in our -- some areas. And so beginning 

 4 training is fine, but for people that have been in there 

 5 for a long time, maybe have a different type of training 

 6 that would be a little more in-depth for those people 
 7 that have been there for quite awhile, and you know, 

 8 just train them on anything that may be new or get a 

 9 little more into it than we would for those that are 

 10 just starting out in a certain area. Thank you. 

 11 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, sir. We'll 

 12 definitely look at that, but one of the things that 

 13 we're proudest of is, you know, these trainings aren't 

 14 free, even though sometimes I say, you know, it's no 

 15 charge to the tribes. A better way of saying it is 
 16 they're prepaid. It's like a prepaid phone card. You 

 17 know, our fees come from Indian country and the ideas to 

 18 support -- support Indian -- the health of the industry. 

 19 So they are prepaid, and as a result of that, if 

 20 there are any specific trainings that are specific to a 

 21 nation or specific -- specific to a TGRA that's needed, 

 22 we're very proud of the fact that our team will do 

 23 in-person training for a given nation. And hats off to 
 24 Steve and his team for overseeing that, but thank you so 

 25 much for that comment, Mr. York. 
 51

 1 And I apologize for sounding like a duck. My 

 2 allergies are kicking in right now. 

 3 Okay. Additional comments? So let me take one 

 4 second to converse with the team here briefly. Okay. 

 5 So we may have to push our break back a little bit, 

 6 depending on how this session goes, but if you will, I 
 7 think we're going to adjust the order of our topics 

 8 briefly. We have, you know, a couple of members of our 

 9 team who have to change schedules for important 

 10 purposes, but you know, I want -- I want to give all 

 11 attention necessary to the MICS discussion, the 

 12 voluntary, non-binding MICS discussion. 

 13 Unless there's objection, we always -- you know, we 

 14 take great effort to provide notice as to whatever we're 

 15 doing and how we're going to do it and we did lay out 
 16 this order of topics, but unless there's objection, we'd 

 17 like to move forward with -- with our discussion about 

 18 the draft guidance regarding -- voluntary, non-binding 

 19 guidance regarding Class III MICS, and if we could move 

 20 forward with that portion of the discussion just in the 

 21 interest of having all relevant parties in the room when 

 22 we have it. 

 23 Okay. So, Ms. Thomas, I don't see any objections, 
 24 please proceed.

 25 MS. THOMAS. Thank you. Christinia Thomas 
 52

 1 again. So as a result of the 2015-2016 consultations, 

 2 the Commission will issue non-binding Class III MICS 

 3 guidance. We have issued a draft of that guidance and 

 4 are asking for feedback before we finalize and publish. 

 5 Although a guidance document does not require a 

 6 formal notice and comment process, the Commission 
 7 recognizes the value of tribal and industry input and 

 8 intends to thoroughly consider all comments we receive 

 9 from you to inform this guidance. Copies of the draft 

 10 64-page guidance document are provided for review today, 

 11 but are also available on our website. 

 12 The NIGC is very fortunate to have so many tribal 

 13 gaming subject matter experts working for the agency who 

 14 are well versed in operational procedures and the risks 

 15 associated with them who have been diligently working to 
 16 develop this draft. 

 17 You'll notice that the draft follows the formatting 

 18 and style of the current Part 543 Class II MICS. We 

 19 hope it assists those tribes with MICS facilities to 

 20 develop a comprehensive set of controls while still 

 21 enabling tribes themselves to establish standards that 

 22 best fit their needs. 

 23 Exclusively Class III areas such as gaming machines 
 24 and table games have been updated after extensive review 

 25 of other jurisdictions incorporating tribal regulatory 
 53

 1 in current industry standards. Additionally, those 

 2 controls in Part 543 that require TGRA analysis and 

 3 approval, such as variances and supervision controls, 

 4 are carried over into the Class III guidance. 

 5 We would also like to consult with you on a 

 6 proposed decision to suspend the existing 542 
 7 regulations. Suspension of the regulations leaves the 

 8 existing text in the code of federal regulations, but 

 9 adds a note that they are not enforceable and refers the 

 10 reader to the guidance document. We believe that this 

 11 solution accomplishes the goals of keeping the language 

 12 accessible for those who need it. Thank you.

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you, 

 14 Ms. Thomas. So we can, of course, give ample additional 

 15 background, but I want to open it up to comments and 
 16 questions on, as I said before, to this voluntary, 

 17 non-binding draft guidance.

 18 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: Jamie Hummingbird with 

 19 Cherokee Nation again. Just to refresh my memory if you 

 20 could, I realize we covered this subject at a 

 21 consultation in Shawnee last year and I think you might 

 22 recall then I asked the question, and I'm hoping to get 

 23 a refresher, because I'm wondering how this move is 
 24 going to impact tribes here in Oklahoma and elsewhere 

 25 where their compacts are tied to compliance with the 
 54

 1 TICS -- or excuse me, the MICS that are contained within 

 2 Section 542. 

 3 What is the expectation or what does NIGC 

 4 anticipate any potential ripple effect being when it 

 5 comes to those situations?

 6 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I think that's an 
 7 excellent question and we recognize that the compacts 

 8 for tribal nations vary greatly from state to state. 

 9 And, you know, we have some thoughts, but we also are 

 10 always interested in hearing from Oklahoma tribes' 

 11 perspectives about the potential impacts, but again, I 

 12 stress that these are non-binding and voluntary, but if 

 13 I could turn it over to our general counsel, we've had a 

 14 lot of internal discussions on this as well. 

 15 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: Hi. So the -- the kind 
 16 of solution we came up for that was to try and figure 

 17 out a way to point out that the regs that are existing 

 18 on the books of Part 542, we can't enforce those because 

 19 of the Colorado River Indian Tribe's decision back in 

 20 2008, but those regs have stayed on the books and we 

 21 understand that they need to be on the books for the 

 22 reason that you discussed. 

 23 So by suspending, which is what we're proposing to 
 24 do, by suspending the regulations, they stay there. 542 

 25 will still be there and it will still get printed. It 
 55

 1 just -- it means that the NIGC can't enforce those 

 2 regulations and it makes that clear. Everything will 

 3 still be there. You'll still be able to look them up. 

 4 They'll still be referenced. We just won't -- I mean, 

 5 it really won't have any -- any practical effect in the 

 6 sense that we haven't been able to enforce them since 
 7 the CRIT decision. We still won't be able to enforce 

 8 them. 

 9 This will make that clear in the regs and then it 

 10 will point folks that want to use them to the guidance. 

 11 That way, for the compacts that reference 542, that will 

 12 all still be there. We wouldn't be able to update those 

 13 regs regardless because of the CRIT decision. We just 

 14 don't really have the authority to mandate anything in 

 15 Class III internal controls. 
 16 So they'll just kinda stay the way -- they're kinda 

 17 frozen in time, essentially. They're suspended. You 

 18 can still reference them if you need to, and in the 

 19 meantime, we'll be putting out this -- this guidance is 

 20 just kind of a point of reference for tribes that need 

 21 it for their Class III MICS. I hope that answers your 

 22 question. 

 23 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: Mostly. 
 24 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: Mostly. Is there 

 25 anything I can --
 56

 1 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: Well, I just think -- and I 

 2 understand where you're coming from and I think I 

 3 understand how this will kinda flow and it's -- I think 

 4 it's going to be something more of a question now that 

 5 we will have to work on internally as well as possibly 

 6 with the -- anything with the state, simply because with 
 7 -- with respect to the outdatedness, if you will, of the 

 8 current 542 -- the technologies, the processes, 

 9 everything that was in place eight, nine years ago, not 

 10 in place today, and if we had the ability to amend 

 11 those, I'm sure they would have been amended, you know, 

 12 three years ago when the rest of them were -- or four to 

 13 five years ago when the rest of them were. 

 14 But with -- with the rest of the -- my questions, I 

 15 think they're not necessarily for you. It's going to be 
 16 something I have to ask my tribe and we might have to 

 17 confer with my counterparts on the tribal side here in 

 18 Oklahoma and maybe even with our state compliance 

 19 agency. 

 20 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: Yeah, and we know that 

 21 there are compacts elsewhere, too, that reference back 

 22 to the NIGC's MICS. And so there's kind of a mix how 

 23 that's done throughout the industry and we're trying to 
 24 come up with a way to have to -- to be able to update 

 25 something, but have the least amount of impact on those 
 57

 1 compacts that reference our MICS, or you know, sometimes 

 2 they're dropped right into the compact even, but for 

 3 those that just reference back to Part 542, we're trying 

 4 to figure out a way to be clear that, you know, we can't 

 5 really do anything with these, but here they are in case 

 6 you still need them, if you're still referencing them in 
 7 your compact. 

 8 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: And is the move to make --

 9 the 542 non-binding guidance, is that a move that NIGC 

 10 is going to keep forward with all regulations in the 

 11 future? It was a joke. 

 12 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: I thought you meant 

 13 keeping it updated. 

 14 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: I'm okay with the 

 15 regulations.
 16 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: You know, I can't --

 17 can't predict the future, but the Class III MICS have a 

 18 unique history, as we know, and the diversity in Indian 

 19 country about how various compacts review them and I 

 20 think it results in very -- some very unique approaches 

 21 and solutions, but can't really speak to that. But the 

 22 guidance will be referenced and there will be kind of a 

 23 signal saying, you know, these rules are suspended, 
 24 however, NIGC maintains its guidance at X, and you know, 

 25 whatever the website is and we -- the benefit of that is 
 58

 1 as technology changes, we don't have to -- we're not 

 2 issuing new regulations since this is non-binding 

 3 guidance. That guidance can be updated with input from 

 4 Indian country as -- as needed. And so it's not a 

 5 formal regulation from there on out. It's non-binding 

 6 guidance. 
 7 MS. HOMER: Just one question. You know, I 

 8 understand that, you know, the NIGC, when you say it's 

 9 non-binding guidance, at least I think I understand, 

 10 that that means you-all can't bring an enforcement 

 11 action for non-compliance. However, I would presume 

 12 that you're still going to be writing your audit 

 13 checklist and using the new guidance documents as what 

 14 will form the basis for your audits going forward. 

 15 And so to that extent, you know, if you're not 
 16 complying with Part 542 guidance, then you would be 

 17 getting an audit ding for not doing that, which how does 

 18 that work?

 19 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And I'll turn it over to 

 20 Ms. Thomas who can speak in more detail, but I'm not 

 21 sure if that's quite -- well, go ahead.

 22 MS. THOMAS. So we may adjust our training 

 23 programs and the stuff that we offer, like the IC is
 24 based on the guidance, if that's what tribes would like 

 25 to see, but we don't require tribes to have audits 
 59

 1 completed or AEPs completed on Class III stuff. That's 

 2 not something that we can ask for. 

 3 I do know that tribes still do Class III audits or 

 4 AEPs and based on whatever controls that the tribe has 

 5 in place, and if you get a finding based on your own 

 6 controls, well, that's the tribe's controls and you just 
 7 have an independent auditor auditing against your own 

 8 controls. 

 9 MS. HOMER: Okay. Just for purposes of 

 10 clarification, then, when we have a MICS Class II and 

 11 Class III facility, which is very common here in 

 12 Oklahoma, wouldn't the classification --

 13 classification -- the MICS for the Class II be applied 

 14 for the whole facility as opposed to just a part of the 

 15 facility? How does that -- how does that -- how do you 
 16 perceive that working?

 17 MS. THOMAS: So if it's a MICS facility, we've 

 18 always said from the onset of the implementation of the 

 19 542 for the Class II MICS that if an area touches any --

 20 if any of the Class II areas touches, so your cage, your 

 21 surveillance, all of those particular controls, are 

 22 already part of 543. So we would be measuring against 

 23 those controls. We wouldn't be measuring against the 
 24 guidance, but I can tell you that the duplicative areas, 

 25 like the cage and all those, carry over into this 
 60

 1 guidance document, so it's going to be verbatim what's 

 2 in 543 for all of those areas that touch every portion 

 3 of the Class II area. So there's no differences between 

 4 what we have for the cage language in 543. It's exactly 

 5 the same as we have for cage language now in this 

 6 guidance document. 
 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for --

 8 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: I don't think I need a 

 9 microphone, just -- Jamie Hummingbird again. How soon 

 10 do you plan to make the switch? 

 11 MS. THOMAS: Well, our comments -- our comment 

 12 period isn't done until the end of June, and I 

 13 anticipate that we're going to get a bunch of written 

 14 comments on this particular issue. And it's going to 

 15 take us some time to review all the comments and make 
 16 changes where we feel appropriate, so we're still a few 

 17 months out.

 18 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And that will result in 

 19 kind of a more final proposed draft and we'll submit 

 20 that for final -- final comments as well.

 21 MR. MORGAN: Matthew Morgan, Chickasaw 

 22 Nation --

 23 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I'm sorry, to answer, 
 24 we're trying to get as much done this year as possible, 

 25 if that's helps. Sorry, Mr. Morgan.
 61

 1 MR. MORGAN: No, no, you have the floor 

 2 anytime, sir. It's not a problem. A lot smarter minds 

 3 than mine in the room, but a concern that keeps tripping 

 4 me up is that CRIT decision on not only the authority to 

 5 enforce, but the authority to issue what's termed in the 

 6 record Class III MICS. I don't -- I know the 
 7 enforcement part goes to the regulatory format of how 

 8 that is, but you know, how you get over that hurdle of 

 9 issuing expending fees on Class III minimum internal 

 10 control standards, that worries me on how the NIGC is 

 11 going to address that and get over that hurdle. 

 12 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Mr. Morgan. 

 13 And we've talked about this internally. And, Mike, do 

 14 you want to field this? 

 15 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: Sure. No, I appreciate 
 16 that concern and we've -- we have heard that from the 

 17 beginning. I think here again, by putting it out as 

 18 non-binding guidance, I guess we would have to look to 

 19 see maybe even what fees we are really expending. I 

 20 know we're working on this and it is something that 

 21 we're -- you know, we're taking time to do, but I also 

 22 think, too, that we can look at this as it is providing 

 23 a service to some tribes that have asked for it and say 
 24 we do need this. 

 25 We also have in some places the class three tied 
 62

 1 through ordinances, so we have to kinda look at how we 

 2 deal with that as well, which is another issue. So I 

 3 would say that I take your point and I can see that that 

 4 is a concern. I think that the CRIT decision itself, 

 5 though, is really more focused on the regulatory aspect 

 6 and on being able to enforce these and really having any 
 7 kind of regulatory authority to go in and enforce Class 

 8 III minimum internal controls. 

 9 But I think that what the Commission is trying to 

 10 do here, is it almost falls more in the technical 

 11 assistance and guidance aspect of the Commission's role. 

 12 I mean, we do have -- you know, regardless of what the 

 13 Court and CRIT said about our authority, I think we do 

 14 have a lot of in-house internal expertise on these 

 15 issues that I think we can bring a lot of assistance to 
 16 the industry for some of the tribes that are asking for 

 17 it, some of the operations that are asking for it and 

 18 could use it. 

 19 And at the same time, it's, I think, a very low 

 20 kind of -- it's not an -- it's not something that we're 

 21 going to be out, you know, every day in there saying, 

 22 are you keeping up with Class III MICS and expending 

 23 resources that way, if that makes any sense, so ...
 24 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Again, apologize for my 

 25 allergies here. Okay. Additional comments? Wow. 
 63

 1 Okay. Thank you. 

 2 So it's 10:07 right now. Rather than start --

 3 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: Do you want to try and 

 4 do management contracts? 

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Oh, yeah. Before --

 6 okay. That's a good -- if we could press through and 
 7 try and get through the management contracts discussion 

 8 before our break and that might -- that might be good 

 9 since we have everybody in the room that needs to 

 10 discuss that as well. Any objections pressing through? 

 11 Okay. So with that, we'll turn -- turn our 

 12 attention to the management -- management contract 

 13 regulations and procedures topic of today's 

 14 consultation, and for that, we have our finance 

 15 director, Ms. Yvonne Lee.
 16 COMMISSIONER LEE. Good morning. My name is 

 17 Yvonne Lee. I'm the director of finance for the 

 18 National Indian Gaming Commission. One of our primary 

 19 initiatives at NIGC is to protect against anything that 

 20 amounts to gamesmanship on the backs of tribes. 

 21 Gamesmanship is a broad term for any third-party threats 

 22 to tribal assets or operations. It includes third-party 

 23 interference with a tribe's sole proprietary interest in 
 24 its gaming operations. 

 25 Many gamesmanship violations may occur when the 
 64

 1 third-party vendor or services provider is managing some 

 2 aspect of the gaming operation without an approved 

 3 management contract or where a management contractor is 

 4 operating outside of an approved management contract, 

 5 thus, approval of management contracts by the NIGC chair 

 6 is required by IGRA as a means of protecting the tribe 
 7 against gamesmanship. 

 8 The chair has a fiduciary responsibility to tribes 

 9 to ensure that they remain the primary beneficiary of 

 10 their gaming operations. The management contract and 

 11 backgrounding process should protect against 

 12 gamesmanship, but the process should also not stymie the 

 13 entrepreneurial spirit of the tribes. 

 14 With this in mind, the Commission is seeking 

 15 feedback and recommendations on whether changes are 
 16 needed to the management contract and background 

 17 investigation regulations. Specifically, we want input 

 18 that may improve our efficiency in the management 

 19 contract review process, but also continue to protect 

 20 tribe's sole proprietary interest in their gaming 

 21 activities. 

 22 To provide some context to this consultation, I'll 

 23 briefly summarize the current approval process, then 
 24 we'll open the floor to questions and suggestions. 

 25 A management contract is any contract, subcontract 
 65

 1 or collateral agreement between an Indian tribe and a 

 2 contractor or between a contractor and a subcontractor 

 3 that provides for the management of all or a part of the 

 4 gaming operation. Detailed requirements for management 

 5 contract can be found on our website. 

 6 The following are a few of the most significant 
 7 requirements: The contract term may not exceed five 

 8 years, unless a special authorization for up to seven 

 9 years is granted if the chair is satisfied with 

 10 justifications for the additional time. 

 11 The management fee provided for in the contract may 

 12 not exceed 30 percent of net revenue, unless a special 

 13 authorization for up to 40 percent is granted if the 

 14 chair is satisfied with justifications for the 

 15 additional fee, and the contract must provide for a 
 16 minimum guaranteed monthly payment to the tribe that has 

 17 preference over the retirement of development and 

 18 construction costs. 

 19 To commence the review and approval process, 

 20 submitters must submit a management contract and all 

 21 relevant documents in accordance with 25 CFR Parts 531 

 22 and 533 to NIGC. Once a contract is submitted to the 

 23 NIGC, they are processed and reviewed based on the order 
 24 received. The length of NIGC review is dependent on 

 25 several factors, which can include the number of prior 
 66

 1 applications received and already in the review queue, 

 2 the completeness of each submission, the responsiveness 

 3 of the parties in compliance with existing laws and 

 4 regulations and the complexity of the submission and 

 5 those subject to background investigation. 

 6 There are often various and simultaneous management 
 7 contracts in one or more review stages at any given 

 8 point. Once all the documents are received and the NIGC 

 9 and the tribe have determined that the submission is 

 10 complete, chair approval or denial can be expected 

 11 within 180 days of this full and complete submission. 

 12 However, please remember that a complete submission 

 13 requires multiple steps. Often after an initial review 

 14 is complete, the NIGC contacts the tribe and/or the 

 15 manager to obtain additional information or request 
 16 clarifications. Therefore, the review process usually 

 17 takes more than 180 days from the initial submission 

 18 date. 

 19 The chairman must also make a determination that 

 20 the manager is suitable to manage the gaming operation. 

 21 The background investigation process is an important 

 22 component of the submission. Background information 

 23 must be submitted for all persons and entities that have 
 24 a financial interest in or management responsibility for 

 25 the management contract as identified in 25 CFR Part 
 67

 1 537. 

 2 If a tribe wants to amend a term of an existing 

 3 approved contract or simply extend the original approved 

 4 contract pursuant to 25 CFR 535, it must submit an 

 5 amendment and relevant documents, include a letter from 

 6 the tribal chairperson and associated resolutions, as 
 7 well as background investigation applications. 

 8 For new individuals or entities, background 

 9 investigations are required. Individuals or entities 

 10 previously found suitable may also need to have their 

 11 background investigation updated, depending on the 

 12 length of time since their last background 

 13 investigation. 

 14 After the NIGC staff completes a management 

 15 contract review and the background investigations, they 
 16 will submit the materials to the chair for approval or 

 17 disapproval. If the NIGC chair learns of any actions or 

 18 conditions that violate the standards of Parts 531, 533, 

 19 535 or 537 or the manager deliberately or substantially 

 20 fails to follow the terms of the management contract or 

 21 tribal gaming ordinance, the chair may disapprove a 

 22 submitted contract or void the contract or require 

 23 verifications of an approved contract. If submitters 
 24 find the chair's determination unsatisfactory, they may 

 25 appeal the decision. 
 68

 1 We would now like to take this time to hear from 

 2 you. Do you have any questions about the process or 

 3 regulations or any suggestions as to how the NIGC can 

 4 improve its efficiency in processing these applications 

 5 and providing technical assistance? Thank you.

 6 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Ms. Lee. So 
 7 we'll turn it over to comments or questions, but you 

 8 know, management agreements are an important part of our 

 9 functions at the agency. We talk about gamesman --

 10 doing anything we can to protect against gamesmanship on 

 11 the backs of tribes. You know, the approval of 

 12 management agreements and ongoing responsibility to 

 13 ensure compliance with terms of a management agreement 

 14 are, you know, fundamental to ensuring that tribes are 

 15 the primary beneficiaries of their operations, that 
 16 tribes are, you know, maintaining a sole proprietary 

 17 interest in their operations, and so we welcome any 

 18 comments or perspectives you may have in terms of, you 

 19 know, regulations or administrative tweaks that may be 

 20 appropriate.

 21 MR. YORK: Buddy York with Muscogee Creek 

 22 Nation Gaming Commission. My question is, when you're 

 23 talking about management contracts and you mentioned in 
 24 that definition gaming, okay, a lot of the resorts of 

 25 the larger casinos and everything have a lot of entities 
 69

 1 -- other entities that don't -- that aren't directly 

 2 gaming. Does the definition tell us just exactly which 

 3 of these entities would be covered under a gaming 

 4 management contract or something like that if it doesn't 

 5 deal directly with gaming, but it is using gaming money 

 6 to pay for those contracts? 
 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Going to turn it over to 

 8 our general counsel to talk about IGRA as well as how we 

 9 apply or how we approach management agreements. 

 10 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: So I guess the short 

 11 answer is the management contract approval process, you 

 12 know, the contracts have to be submitted and go through 

 13 this process are only for contracts that call for 

 14 management of the gaming operation itself, so the gaming 

 15 floor. If you have a contract, for example, with 
 16 someone that's going to do your food service and that's 

 17 it, they don't touch the actual management of the 

 18 gaming, I don't think that's something that we would 

 19 need to see. 

 20 You know, if you ever have a question, though, 

 21 about whether you think something touches on management 

 22 of the gaming operation, the office of general counsel 

 23 will review agreements before they're executed to make a 
 24 determination on whether we think that they're 

 25 management or not. We call it the declination letter 
 70

 1 process. We have a bunch of them. 

 2 Lately, they all seem to focus on financing where 

 3 the money, you know, if the tribe's gaming revenues are 

 4 going to be used as collateral, they want to get an 

 5 opinion on that, but we also look at developmental 

 6 agreements and other management contracts if the 
 7 operations of the tribes ask us to. 

 8 As far as the revenue being used to pay for those 

 9 management agreements, again, I don't think that's 

 10 something that we would then say triggers the need to 

 11 review that contract unless that contract actually 

 12 manages the gaming operation. Then it's just a question 

 13 of whether the gaming revenue -- well, that would be 

 14 probably an operating expense maybe or a question 

 15 whether it's net gaming revenue if it's going to one of 
 16 the five purposes that are permitted under IGRA. 

 17 So it would be kind of a different review if we 

 18 ever had a question about that. It wouldn't really 

 19 be -- go to management as much as it would to use of the 

 20 net gaming revenue. Does that answer your question?

 21 MR. YORK: Yes.

 22 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Let me add to that just 

 23 really briefly, although it's -- so management contract 
 24 approval works hand in hand with other functions at the 

 25 agency and the agency, as a whole, has a responsibility 
 71

 1 to improve primary beneficiary status of the tribes. 

 2 And so what I mean by that is, as we approve management 

 3 agreement, we approve it per the guidance or the 

 4 mandates of the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. However, 

 5 there are other compliance functions that we perform and 

 6 I think general counsel alluded to them to -- that help 
 7 us ensure primary beneficiary status of the tribes. 

 8 One unique thing about the management agreement 

 9 approval process is management agreements have to be 

 10 devoid of undue influence by third parties, undue 

 11 influence of tribal operations, and they also, you know, 

 12 have to ensure primary beneficiary and sole proprietary 

 13 interest of the tribes. And so it really is a positive 

 14 opportunity to make sure that the tribe's interests are 

 15 protected. 
 16 In addition to the opportunity, it's also the 

 17 responsibility on NIGC's part to make sure that that 

 18 fiduciary responsibility is upheld. And so we do that 

 19 when we're approving these -- these agreements. We do 

 20 that both in terms of the terms of the agreements, but 

 21 also some of the backgrounding that -- that goes along 

 22 with these agreements, but certainly ensuring the 

 23 primary beneficiary status of tribes is a function that 
 24 we perform beyond management agreements, and hence, 

 25 we're engaged in a lot of gamesmanship activities where 
 72

 1 we encourage folks to alert us to any issues involving 

 2 potential third-party threats to assets or operations in 

 3 Indian country. 

 4 But in our actual approval of management 

 5 agreements, we're guided directly by IGRA. We follow 

 6 the mandates of IGRA and our review is limited to the --
 7 to the management agreement process set forth in IGRA. 

 8 However, if there are administrative tweaks that can be 

 9 made or regulatory tweaks, we're welcome to hear, but 

 10 management agreements are just part of the larger 

 11 compliance efforts that we undertake as an agency and we 

 12 take those very seriously.

 13 MS. HOMER: Chairman, I think that it would be 

 14 useful for us in developing comments to really 

 15 understand the NIGC's internal process for the review 
 16 and approval of management contracts. Because I know 

 17 that, you know, technical staff will review the 

 18 management contracts, but so does legal staff. And how 

 19 that gets done, you know, whether it's kind of a lineal 

 20 process or simultaneous review process, it would help us 

 21 to know what that is. 

 22 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. Good question. 

 23 And those who have worked with us through one of these 
 24 management agreement processes is probably pretty 

 25 familiar, but I think that's a very, very good question 
 73

 1 that our finance director, Yvonne Lee, will speak to.

 2 COMMISSIONER LEE. I mean, first I would say, 

 3 every contract is different, but the general process 

 4 that we go through is once we receive the management 

 5 contract submissions, our office of general counsel 

 6 would also receive a copy of it. So the review started 
 7 simultaneously. The finance staff who review the 

 8 contents of the management contract would focus on 

 9 financial terms, the management fee calculation and all 

 10 those kind of financial analysis while office of general 

 11 counsel will focus on the legal side of it. And then, 

 12 you know, we -- there is back-and-forth discussion in 

 13 between until we -- we determine, like, it's a stage to 

 14 send out issues letter or we need to contact the parties 

 15 for further clarification or more additional 
 16 information. 

 17 But, first, I mean, once we receive the submission, 

 18 usually we'll go through a quick review to make sure 

 19 that we have all of the required documents submitted to 

 20 us to start the review process. So if we are missing 

 21 any documents, first we'll send out what we call a 

 22 submission letter to inform the parties that there are 

 23 additional documents required, while we continue to 
 24 review the -- the review process doesn't stop while we 

 25 send out the submission letter and waiting for the party 
 74

 1 to respond. 

 2 We'll continue to review the contents and then 

 3 we'll send out the issues letter and then the process 

 4 could go from there. It depends on the responsiveness, 

 5 the completeness of the documents and whatever, you 

 6 know, that the review process goes on. And once we 
 7 reach a point we have all the complete documents 

 8 submitted and then all the terms and provisions 

 9 clarified, then we will recommend the staff -- both from 

 10 finance and the office of general counsel would 

 11 recommend approval or disapproval to the chair, and 

 12 ultimately, it's up to the chair to decide whether he's 

 13 going to approve or disapprove the contract.

 14 MS. HOMER: At what point in this process do 

 15 you start initiating the background investigations?
 16 COMMISSIONER LEE: Well, we get the 

 17 submission, we send all information to background 

 18 investigation team. Then they will see if we already 

 19 have the list of the individuals or entities who are 

 20 involved in this management contract. If we don't, we 

 21 will contact the parties to submit the list, and then 

 22 based on the list, we'll require the deposits and also 

 23 the applications so we can start the process. Again, 
 24 it's simultaneous. 

 25 MS. HOMER: So you don't hold up on the 
 75

 1 background process pending the first review, the initial 

 2 review of the submission? 

 3 COMMISSIONER LEE: No, it's kind of separate. 

 4 We do it all, you know, simultaneously, because it's 

 5 really not depending on one another, the management 

 6 contract review on the contents, that's the content 
 7 review. Background investigations is on the management 

 8 contractor, either persons or entities who have 

 9 financial interest in or management responsibility for 

 10 the management contract.

 11 MS. HOMER: What if one of the proposed 

 12 management contractors is a tribal entity? How do we 

 13 handle the background investigation with respect to 

 14 tribal entities? 

 15 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: It's pretty much the 
 16 same. If the contractor is a tribal entity, then we 

 17 treat them as we would any other management company. 

 18 They're -- at that point, they're acting as a commercial 

 19 vendor, I guess maybe that's not the best word, but 

 20 they're coming in to provide a service to another tribe. 

 21 We're looking at the company that's providing that, as 

 22 we would any other management company, so they go 

 23 through the same process.
 24 MS. HOMER: Okay. I think more specifically, 

 25 if you have a tribal -- a tribally owned entity, how do 
 76

 1 you handle the background investigation? Are you doing 

 2 the entity itself or do you background the entire tribal 

 3 counsel or how -- how does all of that work? 

 4 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: I think it depends on 

 5 how that tribal company is structured. Typically, 

 6 though, we would just look at the company. I don't 
 7 think we would have to reach in to the tribe, but again, 

 8 it's hard to say hypothetically. You need to see how 

 9 the company was structured and all of that, but in 

 10 most -- Yvonne, I don't know if you have another answer 

 11 to that, but I would say, you know, typically we're 

 12 going to be as -- we're not going to want to over reach 

 13 ever and I guess it really depends on how involved the 

 14 actual tribal counsel is in the -- in the company that's 

 15 being set up as to whether we would ever want to 
 16 background investigate them.

 17 COMMISSIONER LEE: And I just want to add 

 18 something, two important terms, whoever has financial 

 19 interest in or management responsibility for this 

 20 management contract. So it will have to submit a list 

 21 of persons or entities, and then if they are, you know, 

 22 tribal members or whatever, I mean, we don't kind of 

 23 distinguish between if it's a tribal entity or an 
 24 outside management contractor who are proposing this 

 25 management agreement. So whoever has financial interest 
 77

 1 and management responsibility, those people or entities 

 2 we would have go through a background investigation 

 3 process.

 4 MS. HOMER: Okay. I'm hearing two different 

 5 things.

 6 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: No, I think it 
 7 depends -- again, it depends on how the company is 

 8 structured, so if there is a financial interest, a 

 9 direct or indirect financial interest in the company or 

 10 in the contract, then those -- that entity or those 

 11 people would have to be -- would be subject to 

 12 background under IGRA Regulations.

 13 MS. HOMER: Yeah, well, there is a provision 

 14 in the regulations that says -- for tribal entities that 

 15 this process will be -- I don't know --
 16 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: Is a reduced scope? 

 17 MS. HOMER: A reduced scope, and so I -- I 

 18 guess that's really what I was getting to is what's the 

 19 nature of that reduced scope? 

 20 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: Do you want to talk 

 21 about how -- I don't know what goes into a reduced scope 

 22 background investigation. I know that we've had a 

 23 couple of requests for those from -- another is, like, 
 24 institutional lenders can get a reduced scope, and 

 25 typically we -- we need someone to ask for that so we 
 78

 1 can do the reduced scope, and then I think, again, it 

 2 depends on the -- how reduced it is kinda depends on 

 3 who's on -- whether it's an entity, a person, all that 

 4 kind of thing, so ...

 5 MS. HOMER: Thank you. 

 6 COMMISSIONER LEE: Every case is a little bit 
 7 different, so you will have to initiate a request to us 

 8 and then we will review to determine if the reduced 

 9 scope is appropriate.

 10 MS. HOMER: Okay. Thank you. Just to kind of 

 11 wrap up, I just want to say thank you. I don't mean to 

 12 hog the time here, but developing comments for this 

 13 particular issue is really more about you-all's internal 

 14 functions and how you manage that, and that's why I was 

 15 asking all of these questions, because I -- you know, I 
 16 don't know if that process has changed over the years. 

 17 It's encouraging to hear that you're doing things 

 18 simultaneously, so you're not waiting, you know, for one 

 19 thing to happen before triggering another step. I mean, 

 20 that's positive, but I think the only other thing is the 

 21 resources that are devoted to doing this within the 

 22 agency. I mean, there's two things -- I always said 

 23 when I was on the NIGC that there's really only two 
 24 things we know for sure IGRA authorizes the NIGC to do 

 25 and one is to approve gaming ordinances and the other is 
 79

 1 to approve management contracts. These are the two 

 2 critical functions, and I have to wonder about the 

 3 resources that are devoted, because I do know for a fact 

 4 that it can sometimes take a very, very long time to get 

 5 through the management contract approval process, and 

 6 it's really frustrating, and it's why I think sometimes, 
 7 Chairman, that there is gamesmanship, because people 

 8 just don't want to go through this. That's, you know, 

 9 one to three years of not being able to operate, and you 

 10 know, the way that the parties, you know, anticipate and 

 11 so it is -- you know, but it really is up to you guys, 

 12 you know, to figure out the internal stuff. 

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you, Ms. Homer. 

 14 Just a few things to say on all of this and --

 15 absolutely there is a reduced scope. You know, there is 
 16 reduced scope language, but this speaks to your question 

 17 about the internal administrative functions of the 

 18 agency. If there is regulatory clarification that, in 

 19 practice, any of you have noticed would be helpful in 

 20 terms of clarifying what reduced scope means or the 

 21 relationship between tribal applicants and tribal 

 22 operators or the tribal gaming entity, we welcome those. 

 23 We welcome comments regarding a specific regulatory 
 24 language as well. 

 25 As to internally, you know, I might say that IGRA 
 80

 1 doesn't -- I mean, it says a little bit more than two 

 2 specified areas --

 3 MS. HOMER: For sure. Two for sure. 

 4 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: -- you know, of 

 5 activities. You know, there is some -- you know, quite 

 6 a bit of language in there regarding our 
 7 responsibilities to support the overall integrity of 

 8 Indian gaming. But that said, you know, we encourage 

 9 nation-to-nation economic development. We encourage --

 10 we think that is consistent with IGRAs purposes of 

 11 supporting strong tribal governments. 

 12 At the same time, you know, given our current 

 13 regulatory language, no matter how we process things 

 14 administratively, nothing takes away from our fiduciary 

 15 responsibility to the tribe at hand whose gaming 
 16 operations are being -- being managed pursuant to a 

 17 management agreement. So that is our first and foremost 

 18 fiduciary responsibility. 

 19 We need to make sure that whenever we're approving 

 20 a management agreement, that that responsibility is 

 21 maintained and that -- that we do whatever we can to 

 22 ensure that there is no undue influence or there is --

 23 you know, there are no fiduciary problems with the 
 24 management agreement that's submitted. That's our first 

 25 responsibility when it comes to management agreements 
 81

 1 and that is because the operations in question are the 

 2 question -- are the operations of the tribe that is 

 3 submitting the management agreement. 

 4 So everything else kind of is, in my view, 

 5 secondary to that. Our first responsibility is to

 6 maintain adherence to our responsibilities to the tribe 
 7 whose -- whose operations are going to be managed, and 

 8 we appreciate and we encourage nation on nation --

 9 nation-to-nation economic development, but when it comes 

 10 to management agreements, our responsibility rests with 

 11 supporting the tribal operations in question.

 12 COMMISSIONER HOENIG: Can I say one other 

 13 thing? One thing I think we forgot to mention, and it's 

 14 I think a pretty big deal, as far as the time 

 15 consideration of how long it takes us to do 
 16 management -- to get through the approval process on 

 17 management agreements, one of the things in the past we 

 18 saw that was kind of maybe not the only reason, but it's 

 19 certainly a big reason that we had that time lag was the 

 20 NEPA process. 

 21 Management contracts are considered a federal 

 22 action, so they have -- they are subject to the NEPA 

 23 requirements, which requires a whole nother level of 
 24 review. We recently, the Commission published in the 

 25 Federal Register, a categorical exclusion for certain 
 82

 1 management agreements. It doesn't cover all of them 

 2 right now. We're working to build a record so we can 

 3 get to that point, but any management contract that 

 4 doesn't call for construction of a new facility or 

 5 major, you know, renovations that would have a direct 

 6 possible impact on the environment, we've issued a 
 7 categorical exclusion, which I believe is still in the 

 8 process of being finalized, but it's out there. It's in 

 9 the Federal Register if you want to take a look at that 

 10 and we hope that that will help with reducing some of 

 11 the time that it takes us to get a recommendation up to 

 12 the chair for approval on a management agreement.

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you for that, 

 14 Mike. We're very, very proud of that, and actually, we 

 15 probably should have highlighted that more, but you 
 16 know, this is consistent with our efforts to reduce 

 17 artificial roadblocks to the appropriate economic 

 18 development activities that grow out of the 

 19 entrepreneurial spirit of tribes, and so we're very 

 20 proud of that and thank you for mentioning that. 

 21 You know, our team doesn't get enough credit for 

 22 doing what they can to reduce those roadblocks, but we 

 23 should probably, you know, highlight that a little bit 
 24 more. Thanks, Mike. 

 25 Yes, sir.
 83

 1 MR. BURRIGHT: Jered Burright with Muscogee 

 2 Creek Nation. I kinda want to take a step back for a 

 3 second as far as to kinda tie on to what Buddy had said 

 4 earlier. And I know that you had said that the 

 5 management contracts that you guys look at are directly 

 6 affected by -- directly tied to gaming. One gray area 
 7 that I feel like we've noticed, and I've wondered if you 

 8 guys have noticed, and I kinda hoped Travis was going to 

 9 be in here for this, but with the ever-growing inclusion 

 10 of centralized accounting systems in back houses for 

 11 casinos and how they expanded technological wise, it 

 12 seems that every amenity that gets brought into a 

 13 resort, they want to tie them into those systems. 

 14 Is that something that you guys have looked at and 

 15 noticed and feel like that those then make those added 
 16 amenities kind of where they should be included as part 

 17 of a gaming environment?

 18 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And, again, when we 

 19 approve these management agreements -- that's a great 

 20 question. I'll probably turn it over to Christinia in a 

 21 second to talk a little bit more about the practice of 

 22 tying those systems together, but I want to separate the 

 23 management approval process from the compliance efforts 
 24 that we undertake when we look at managing without an

 25 approved contract. They are related, but they are not 
 84

 1 the same. 

 2 And so when we look at an agreement, we look at the 

 3 parties with financial interest. We do backgrounding as 

 4 appropriate. We look at the contractual relationship 

 5 between the manager and the tribe and we determine 

 6 whether or not the agreement at hand is consistent with 
 7 IGRA, and that's our analysis. And so rarely would 

 8 those -- would those kind of system tie-ins come up in 

 9 an agreement itself. I don't know, maybe Yvonne has 

 10 seen other agreements that actually contemplate the --

 11 those tie-ins, but rarely that comes up. 

 12 Where those issues come up a little bit more is in 

 13 our -- I'm not talking about those specific issues, but 

 14 when -- when other kind of secondary issues as they 

 15 relate to management come up a little bit more is in our 
 16 compliance efforts. And we have an ongoing 

 17 responsibility to address management without an approved 

 18 contact, and that's a compliance issue, separate and 

 19 apart from the management agreement approval process. 

 20 And so, you know, I think it's an excellent 

 21 question. It definitely relates to management 

 22 agreements, but I just want to clarify the distinction, 

 23 at least from NIGC's part, between approving a contract 
 24 and looking at a compliance issue involving management 

 25 without a contract. They're related, but they are not 
 85

 1 the same. 

 2 I don't know if anybody wants to address the 

 3 technical aspects of the tie-ins between systems. 

 4 That's why I'm turning to the technology folks who are 

 5 smarter than I am on that, but we would certainly -- if 

 6 it comes up in the context of a compliance issue, that 
 7 would certainly be discussed with our compliance team 

 8 with advice and input from our technology division and 

 9 our office of general counsel, but it would be a very 

 10 fact specific inquiry. 

 11 Christinia or Travis, do you want to --

 12 MS. THOMAS: Well, I'm not sure I can add more 

 13 to that. The chairman is correct. So if we're looking 

 14 at a contractor or a vendor that's coming into the 

 15 systems area, unless there's a direct tie-in to how 
 16 they -- to the management of the gaming itself, it's not 

 17 something we would generally look at. 

 18 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: But I mean, we wouldn't 

 19 necessarily look at that in terms of management, but 

 20 there are other compliance functions that we play in 

 21 terms of use of gaming revenue, sole proprietary 

 22 interest violations, thing of that nature. That's why 

 23 it's a very case-by-case analysis, but the bottom line, 
 24 we'll look at -- whenever there is -- and there are a 

 25 number of means of -- for information to be brought to 
 86

 1 us, a number of ways that information can be brought to 

 2 us. Usually it's from the tribe itself saying, can you 

 3 take a look at this. Sometimes it's by other -- other 

 4 parties, but whenever there's a question of whether or 

 5 not something involves one of our compliance functions, 

 6 we'll look at that on a case-by-case basis to see if any 
 7 elements of IGRA are -- are, you know, at issue. 

 8 And so if there's a use of gaming revenue issue in 

 9 play or if there is, you know, a management issue, 

 10 whether it's, you know, effective management by a vendor 

 11 or a third party or effective -- or concerning influence 

 12 by an outside party, that's very case by case and that's 

 13 based on the facts at hand. And so if there is kind of, 

 14 you know, lack of clarity as to how gaming revenue is 

 15 being distributed, we'll work with tribal communities 
 16 just to -- just to talk about, you know, whether or not 

 17 there are compliance issues that need to be addressed 

 18 and we'll look at those -- those tie-ins closely, but we 

 19 never take a one-size-fits-all approach to compliance. 

 20 It's very much based on the systems at hand and the 

 21 tie-ins in question. I think I've exhausted my 

 22 technical knowledge of the systems, but --

 23 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Chairman, I have 
 24 asked -- so Tom is actually the individual that we have 

 25 kind of given the hat to give the gamesmanship trainings 
 87

 1 this year. So I had asked him to provide an example of 

 2 what you're talking about. 

 3 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Please. Thank you. 

 4 MR. CUNNINGHAM: You know, kinda to go back to 

 5 your question, you have these entities that are -- that 

 6 are touching your back of the house system. So what we 
 7 would look at is, are they touching and using the 

 8 information, that's really not an issue. 

 9 Now, if they went beyond that and were controlling 

 10 the information or were managing the information or 

 11 reaching beyond the back of the house system to control 

 12 or manage other parts of the gaming area, then that 

 13 would become a management -- could become a management 

 14 issue. 

 15 Another thing we look at is, you know, contracts 
 16 that aren't necessarily management contracts, but you 

 17 find an element in there where they are controlling or 

 18 managing a part of your gaming operation or the revenues 

 19 that's paying for that contract, they've tied it to a 

 20 percentage of gross gaming revenue or a percentage of 

 21 net gaming revenue. So we would look at those very 

 22 closely to see if it throws them into the management 

 23 contract arena. 
 24 Does that make sense? So we look for control, 

 25 management, and then kind of the compensation, how is 
 88

 1 the compensation determined in that contract.

 2 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Excellent question. 

 3 Thank you. Thank you, Tom.

 4 MR. MORGAN: Matthew Morgan, Chickasaw Nation. 

 5 This is I think going to echo a lot of Ms. Homer's 

 6 comments at a broader level. I definitely think this 
 7 area may be one that not necessarily needs more 

 8 regulation, a tribute to Mr. Hummingbird's statement, 

 9 another topic, but more clarification to demystify what 

 10 that internal process is. 

 11 A lot of tribes when they have made that decision 

 12 that they need to bring in a management contractor have 

 13 made a determination that they lack that expertise to do 

 14 that. There's a lot of sequencing that goes on, as you 

 15 know, during these events. They don't understand what 
 16 is expected from them, what is the turn around, what is 

 17 the process, what is the time lines. It makes it very 

 18 hard to meet those business needs that tribes are 

 19 looking, you know, in the first place, in order to have 

 20 this economic development activity. 

 21 So I think a lot of the -- a lot of this area could 

 22 go towards -- I don't know if it's information on your 

 23 website or something, because I understand -- you know, 
 24 I'm an attorney. I love to use those caveats up front, 

 25 case by case, everything is differently, but some 
 89

 1 general parameters around that would be very helpful in 

 2 understanding more of what the expectations are when we 

 3 start out on this to make sure that we give you guys 

 4 enough time to complete your process and that, you know, 

 5 there's enough time during the business transaction in 

 6 order so everything is sequenced correctly. 
 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Mr. Morgan. 

 8 That's an excellent point. You know, just as a matter 

 9 of governance, I try to -- I mean, I try to -- from my 

 10 part, and can't speak for my fellow commissioners, and 

 11 try to avoid a regulation for regulation's sake. I 

 12 don't think anybody likes that, but we do try to provide 

 13 as much guidance as possible. And I think we -- in the 

 14 past, we have provided quite a bit of guidance materials 

 15 regarding the management agreement process. 
 16 We -- I don't know if Yvonne wants to mention that, 

 17 but part of our technical assistance that -- that we 

 18 provide, we always have an open door, open phone line 

 19 policy, and whenever we're giving trainings or 

 20 discussions -- or discussing management agreements, we 

 21 encourage folks to contact us early. I know that's not 

 22 what we're talking about, but you know, we are open, you 

 23 know, every day of the week to walk through any 
 24 potential applicant -- walk any potential applicant 

 25 through the management agreement process to be as 
 90

 1 transparent as possible about how we approach things. 

 2 Now, how we've structured things administratively, 

 3 it's consistent with IGRA and with our regulations, but 

 4 there is always a flexibility built in to reflect the 

 5 needs of the industry, the needs of the agency, the 

 6 resources and so that's why we welcome comments 
 7 regarding any tweaks that folks may see as relevant, but 

 8 we do try to provide guidance. 

 9 I'll have Yvonne mention -- I mean, talk about that 

 10 a little bit more, but to your point, Mr. Morgan, a flow 

 11 chart -- I don't know if a flow chart is available right 

 12 now, but I'm just thinking a flow chart of the process, 

 13 getting that up on our website quickly certainly 

 14 couldn't hurt. And you know, that's short of a formal 

 15 regulation, but at least that helps applicants 
 16 understand the process and work with us as efficiently 

 17 as possible. 

 18 But anything else you want to add to that, Yvonne, 

 19 regarding guidance?

 20 COMMISSIONER LEE: Yeah, just to add some 

 21 important resources that we have from our website which 

 22 will help you with the management contract and also 

 23 understand our review process, we have submission 
 24 checklist and also a management contract checklist, 

 25 which are exactly all those basic things we're looking 
 91

 1 for. So those will be great reference for you if you 

 2 were starting a management contract. And we also have a 

 3 redacted approved management contract on our website, 

 4 which you can take a look at other's contents and kind 

 5 of for your reference when you make your deal. 

 6 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: But the point is well 
 7 taken. And thank you, Yvonne, on -- the point is well 

 8 taken and certainly if there are ways to tweak our 

 9 regulations consistent with other priorities, such as 

 10 rural outreach, or you know, reflect our technology, you 

 11 know, commitment, please let us know, but we will 

 12 continue to work to try to make the processes as timely 

 13 as possible. 

 14 The NEPA aspect is an important part of that, but 

 15 whatever we can do, we'll try and -- we'll try and do 
 16 better on. These things are very -- they do take 

 17 awhile, but I can -- I can speak for the agency, I think 

 18 that everybody processes these agreements as quickly as 

 19 possible. We have some wonderful subject matter experts 

 20 who work on these from the date of submission on to a 

 21 final decision, but if there are -- from experience, 

 22 anybody who's worked with one of these agreements, if 

 23 there are things that they wish we could realign, please 
 24 let us know. Thank you.

 25 MS. KAISER COLLIER: Barbara Kaiser Collier. 
 92

 1 Having been down this road in the past, long past, long 

 2 time ago, you said a lot of things that were positive 

 3 questions that I had that I was going to bring up while 

 4 you were speaking about the betterment of the tribe and 

 5 the tribe's the most important thing in an agreement. 

 6 One of the things that I would hope to see -- and I 
 7 know it's a long process. It took years, physically 

 8 years, but then at the end of the trail, when the 

 9 management agreement is not approved, you know, I think 

 10 in our case, it -- much more contact with the tribe. So 

 11 I would recommend that you, along the way, have more 

 12 contact and more correspondence and conversation with 

 13 the tribes if they're -- you know, if they don't meet 

 14 your standard if they are not -- if the contractor or 

 15 the agreement that they've sent you doesn't specifically 
 16 say and do what you feel it should, to correspond on 

 17 that and not just say, you know, you need to send us 

 18 this. 

 19 Really talk through it and explain your vision as 

 20 to what it should be or shouldn't be, because in our 

 21 case anyway, it wasn't so specific. You know, we were 

 22 just kind of floundering out there wondering, okay, if 

 23 we -- what should we do. So I think, you know, you're 
 24 all working towards that, have a good hand on it and I 

 25 was glad to hear you explain some of the things you did, 
 93

 1 but that was one of the things that was missing was 

 2 personal information, personal correspondence back and 

 3 forth when the process was actually occurring. 

 4 Because it's one thing when you're sitting out 

 5 there waiting, you know, to hear back, and then six 

 6 months later, well, we need this, you know, and it's --
 7 maybe you've changed that and I hope you have for the 

 8 betterment of the tribes. So just a little note of, you 

 9 know, I think it -- more correspondence. 

 10 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you, 

 11 Ms. Collier. I see Yvonne has a couple of things she 

 12 wants to say, but before I say that -- I mean, before I 

 13 turn it over to Yvonne, really appreciate your comment. 

 14 In terms of our correspondence with management 

 15 agreements, in terms of any letter -- approval letters 
 16 with management agreements, let me bring up a larger 

 17 administrative effort we've been making at NIGC to look 

 18 at every -- and I think this is fair to say. Every 

 19 action that we take is an opportunity to hopefully 

 20 provide assistance and provide guidance. And so as a 

 21 result of that, there are a lot of very small but 

 22 important things that we've been doing over the last few 

 23 years. And I certainly am honored to be part of a team 
 24 that's committed to looking at every everything that we 

 25 can do to support the health of Indian gaming, but 
 94

 1 certainly the teams prior to our current team also felt 

 2 that way. 

 3 So I'm honored to be part of a long chain of folks 

 4 who have tried to make improvements each step of the 

 5 way, but some of the small administrative things that 

 6 we've done to try and provide helpful guidance at each 
 7 step, you know, for all of our ordinance approvals, we 

 8 have a regular check-in before any approval goes out to 

 9 ensure that there aren't other secondary issues that we 

 10 may be able to provide assistance with a given tribe on 

 11 that may not relate to the four corners of the 

 12 ordinance, but if there are other opportunities to 

 13 provide assistance, the ordinance approval process is an 

 14 opportunity to talk about that given nation. 

 15 Same thing with management agreements. We -- we 
 16 always can do better and we want to do better, but in 

 17 the management agreement process, there are 

 18 opportunities to share our perspectives regarding 

 19 experiences that we've seen with other nations. Now, we 

 20 always stay in our lane when we approve agreements and 

 21 we don't go outside of IGRAs mandates, but there are 

 22 opportunities to provide technical assistance to tribes 

 23 at that -- at that point. 
 24 Compliance issue -- what I'm trying to get at is, 

 25 you mentioned correspondence, we try to put in language, 
 95

 1 when appropriate, where appropriate, to provide signals 

 2 or helpful guidance to a given nation. And if there are 

 3 opportunities missed in your experience for us to do 

 4 that, you know, let's continue to talk, even talk off 

 5 line if you'd like, but we want -- we want -- it's not 

 6 just a personal touch. We want every interaction to be 
 7 about what can we do to provide technical assistance to 

 8 our partners, and we can always do better no matter how 

 9 well we're doing. 

 10 Yvonne? 

 11 COMMISSIONER LEE: Yeah, I just want to add to 

 12 that that in addition to written communications, that 

 13 is, you know, the submission letter or issues letter we 

 14 send out, we usually keep very close contact -- contact 

 15 with the parties, you know. We hold meetings. We have 
 16 phone calls to discuss issues. 

 17 A lot of times when the parties receive our issues 

 18 letter, they will call us and ask us to go through each 

 19 issue and explain to them, make sure they understand 

 20 before they respond and we do that. So feel free to 

 21 reach out to us, you know, once you submit your 

 22 management contract to either inquire where it stands, 

 23 the status, or if you have -- need any help in any 
 24 areas.

 25 MS. KAISER COLLIER: Well, thank you. Our 
 96

 1 situation was 12 years ago or more and I don't know that 

 2 we'll be going down that path again. So you probably 

 3 weren't born then, so it was just a bad situation all 

 4 around. We were actually summoned to Washington D.C., 

 5 and you know, told, do this, get rid of this guy, so we 

 6 did. 
 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you. Thank you, 

 8 Ms. Collier. Any other comments --

 9 MS. KAISER COLLIER: Probably don't want to 

 10 put that on the record.

 11 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Any other comments on 

 12 this topic before we break? Okay. Well, with that, 

 13 it's 10:55 right now. We've got a couple shorter topics 

 14 left, technical standards for mobile gaming devices and 

 15 fees. You never know the future, but I don't foresee 
 16 those taking quite a long time. Why don't we take a 

 17 five-minute break. I know a lot of us have been sitting 

 18 for quite some time. Five-minute break and reconvene in 

 19 five minutes, but I think our general counsel will be 

 20 leaving, but Austin Badger will be here as a 

 21 representative of our general counsel's office to add 

 22 some additional questions. Thank you and we'll 

 23 reconvene in about five minutes. Thanks.
 24 (A recess was taken from 10:55 a.m. to 

 25 11:10 a.m.)
 97

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I know some of you are 

 2 double booked, but we want to make sure everybody has 

 3 every opportunity to share comments, ask questions, 

 4 engage as much as possible, so we'll be -- as you know, 

 5 we'll hear all comments before concluding, but again, no 

 6 shame in finishing early as well. 
 7 So with that, thank you everyone for your comments 

 8 and questions to this point. We're going to move 

 9 forward with our next subject for consultation, our 

 10 second to last subject, and that is technical standards 

 11 for mobile gaming devices.

 12 MS. THOMAS: Travis isn't here, so do you want 

 13 me to take it? 

 14 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: In that case, are you 

 15 prepared, Yvonne? We'll move on to fees with Yvonne 
 16 Lee. Thank you.

 17 COMMISSIONER LEE: The Commission is 

 18 considering amending the language to 25 CFR Part 514. 

 19 Under the current regulation, the Commission announces a 

 20 preliminary fee rate of March 1st and the final fee rate 

 21 three months later on June 1st. 

 22 The proposed regulation will require the NIGC to 

 23 set the fee rate only one time per year to be announced 
 24 on November 1st. The proposed changes on the fee rate 

 25 publication date will also apply to the fingerprint 
 98

 1 processing fee rate. These are the proposed 514.2 

 2 changes on fee rate and these are the proposed 514.16 

 3 changes on fingerprint rate. 

 4 When the Commission originally adopted fee 

 5 regulations in 1991, the amount the agency could collect 

 6 in fees was $1.5 million. At that time, the agency 
 7 could make quarterly adjustment to raise or lower fee 

 8 rates to meet that number. The multiple fee rate 

 9 announcements were needed to avoid going over or too far 

 10 under that cap. For example, if the preliminary fee 

 11 rate resulted in the agency potentially earning $2 

 12 million in fees, it could later be adjusted down to 

 13 prevent that overage. 

 14 In the time since those regulations were adopted, 

 15 changes in the law have alleviated a need for the 
 16 quarterly or even bi-annual announcements permitted in 

 17 the current regulation. By setting and announcing the 

 18 fee rate once a year, the Commission will be able to, 

 19 one, improve the efficiency of the fee rate analysis and 

 20 publication process; two, coincide the fee rate 

 21 announcement with the annual release of the gross gaming 

 22 revenues and the completion of the Commission's budget 

 23 for the upcoming year; three, reduce the margin of error 
 24 for fee calculations as the rate would only be set once 

 25 within the fiscal year; four, mitigate any confusion 
 99

 1 that may arise from changing a fee rate twice a year. 

 2 In addition, a majority of tribes have fiscal years 

 3 ending either on September 30th or December 31st. 

 4 Tribe's submission of audited financial statements are 

 5 required 120 days after the end of their fiscal years. 

 6 Thus, when we first used these financial statements to 
 7 set the preliminary fee rates, our analysis is limited 

 8 to a fractional portion of the financial audit 

 9 submissions and must be reanalyzed again after 

 10 additional submissions are received at the end of April. 

 11 The proposed changes will allow the analysis to 

 12 take place once a year after the Commission has received 

 13 all annual audited financial statements. In addition, 

 14 the fee rate calculation will more accurately reflect 

 15 the Commission's required operation funding, which will 
 16 become available by September 30th each year. 

 17 The NIGC seeks comments on the proposed changes to 

 18 the time period these fee rates are published.

 19 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you, Yvonne. I 

 20 don't know if fellow commissioners want to weigh in on 

 21 this, but I'm excited about this. This sounds like a 

 22 small change, but in terms of good governance, it's an 

 23 important change. This will allow us to schedule our 
 24 budget setting in conjunction with -- I mean, well, in 

 25 conjunction with, you know, a realistic understanding of 
 100

 1 the fees coming in and the needs of the agency moving 

 2 forward. 

 3 So timing wise, I'm very excited about this change. 

 4 I don't know if anybody else wants to add to that, 

 5 but --

 6 COMMISSIONER ISOM-CLAUSE: No, I just agree. 
 7 I think this is really good common sense efficiency sort 

 8 of streamlining regulations that we don't often get to 

 9 do and so it's really nice to just make something easier 

 10 for both you and for us, and unless anyone has any 

 11 concerns that we haven't identified, you know, we're 

 12 very excited about this.

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Any comments? I mean, 

 14 it's perfectly fine not to have any comments. Thank 

 15 you. Okay. That's excellent. 
 16 And so now we'll move to our last topic of 

 17 consultation today. That's technical standards for 

 18 mobile gaming devices, and we'll have -- have our 

 19 division of technology director, Travis Waldo, lead us 

 20 off. Travis?

 21 COMMISSIONER WALDO: Good morning, everyone. 

 22 The National Indian Gaming Commission is considering 

 23 draft language to amend 25 CFR 547.18, which would 
 24 clarify and add new technical standards for wireless 

 25 gaming systems and communication between mobile 
 101

 1 communication devices and mobile gaming systems. 

 2 These new draft regulatory standards provide clear 

 3 and specific definitions that have not been included in 

 4 the regulations previously. The new standards also 

 5 support security and system integrity for mobile gaming 

 6 operations. 
 7 Portable hand-held gaming devices have been around 

 8 for many years and are authorized in many state 

 9 jurisdictions. Hand-held gaming devices or electronic 

 10 devices allow casino patrons to play anywhere within the 

 11 casino or within tribal lands as defined by Indian 

 12 Gaming Regulatory Act, such as restaurants, hotels or 

 13 other amenities. 

 14 The draft technical standards for mobile gaming 

 15 devices will not authorize Internet games. That's not 
 16 what these are for. These draft technical standards 

 17 only address hand-held mobile devices within tribal 

 18 lands. These draft technical standards which can be 

 19 found on our website are proposed standards for tribal 

 20 review, comment and consultation. 

 21 Any questions? How did I know that? 

 22 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Jamie 

 23 Hummingbird, Cherokee Nation. This is where that low 
 24 level of proficiency comes in that I spoke of earlier. 

 25 When I was looking at the proposed sections with -- this 
 102

 1 will be a new Section 547.18, I was wondering how this 

 2 proposed section enterplays with the 547.15, which does 

 3 speak with -- about daily communications and wireless 

 4 connectivity between Class II components and systems. 

 5 COMMISSIONER WALDO: Yes, so there is nothing 

 6 that clearly defines mobile gaming, so a lot of the 
 7 questions that we got when we were out in the field and 

 8 were doing ICAs, were doing the vulnerability 

 9 assessments was about mobile gaming devices. How do I, 

 10 you know, connect card minders and things like that? So 

 11 we kinda started thinking along those lines. I wanted 

 12 to get past that card minder technology that's out 

 13 there, because there's a lot of other ways that people 

 14 can do this. There's a lot of other technologies out 

 15 there, and so we felt like that maybe if we had a clear 
 16 standard and we clearly said that you can -- you know, 

 17 you can do this and this is how you can do it, it might 

 18 spur some growth in that. 

 19 They are very well -- they are very closely 

 20 intertwined, but this just gives a little bit more 

 21 guidance on hand-held devices themselves and how to 

 22 secure them.

 23 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: A quick follow up. Is 
 24 the -- is the concern surrounding the mobile devices to 

 25 the level where it would require the regulation or would 
 103

 1 it be something that could be accomplished through a 

 2 bulletin or some other guidance document? 

 3 COMMISSIONER WALDO: This is something that 

 4 we've actually discussed, Austin and Michael Hoenig and 

 5 myself. That's an option. I'm certainly not, you know, 

 6 opposed to something like that and we've talked about 
 7 that quite a bit actually, and that's why we're looking 

 8 for input back from you guys. If you feel like, you 

 9 know, the standards are there, and you know, they're 

 10 pretty robust, I mean, this is something we've actually 

 11 considered making a bulletin.

 12 MR. HUMMINGBIRD: And just an -- again, quick 

 13 follow-up comment on that, the reason I put it that way 

 14 is simply because as regulators, you know how difficult 

 15 it is to change regulation. And if the basis of -- if 
 16 the foundation was already laid within 547.15 and a 

 17 guidance document was put out there much in the way of 

 18 the guidance bulletin was put out there for digital 

 19 surveillance years ago, surveillance was out --

 20 surveillance standards are in the MICS and in the TICS, 

 21 and additional surveillance is contemplated within that. 

 22 However, there were aspects of that technology that 

 23 did need fleshing out, did need clarification, and 
 24 rather than going through and inserting that language 

 25 and that verbiage within the standard itself, within the 
 104

 1 statute, a guidance document of a bulletin was issued. 

 2 Not only does that accomplish the goal, but it also 

 3 allows the additional flexibility to update that 

 4 terminology, the technology, all the different aspects 

 5 that would impact achieving the goal that is to be --

 6 you know, is desired. 
 7 COMMISSIONER WALDO: That was -- that's 

 8 something that we have definitely discussed and are 

 9 considering based on comments and input that we get back 

 10 when this is finalized.

 11 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And that's an excellent 

 12 comment and we'll take a look at that, because certainly 

 13 in terms of options, in terms of our thinking, and 

 14 again, I want to thank Travis for his leadership at the 

 15 division of technology. This was proposed by technology 
 16 as an opportunity to stay ahead of the technology curve, 

 17 recognizing there's a need for additional clarity in 

 18 this emerging -- you know, this emerging area. 

 19 And so I think when we talked about sending this 

 20 out for consultation, we definitely -- we continue to be 

 21 very excited about how we can provide any clarity that 

 22 might be helpful to the field. The form that clarity 

 23 takes, that's why we're consulting and so ...
 24 MR. MORGAN: Matthew Morgan, Chickasaw Nation. 

 25 Kinda to echo Mr. Hummingbird's comments, concern I 
 105

 1 think around this is, kinda using some of your own words 

 2 there, it is emerging technology. It is something 

 3 that's new and when we go down that regulatory path, we 

 4 increase the risk of stymieing some of that innovation 

 5 that we look to for new technologies on how to grow the 

 6 industry, and that concerns me, you know, a 
 7 one-size-fits-all approach. 

 8 You know, I like to tell folks, you know, in our 

 9 own tribal government a lot of times, a lot of the work 

 10 we do hand in hand is rely upon people staying in their 

 11 lanes and making sure that, you know, just because 

 12 somebody may ask you a question doesn't necessarily 

 13 mean -- means that you need to respond. It may be 

 14 appropriate that some other group needs to respond. 

 15 Maybe that's OTGRA, maybe that's NTGCR, maybe 
 16 that's NIGA, maybe that's some of the independent labs 

 17 that can put some more finite perimeters around what 

 18 they think is going on in this, and I question the need 

 19 to answer a lot of these questions with regulation. 

 20 I think a lot of clarification, again, in this area 

 21 can be achieved through some type of guidance documents, 

 22 through working with your stakeholders, and I agree. I 

 23 like that you're asking these questions and having these 
 24 dialogues. I just don't know if regulation is the 

 25 correct road to go down. 
 106

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Mr. Morgan.

 2 MR. YORK: Buddy York, Muscogee Creek Nation. 

 3 The question I have is, if you have a hand-held 

 4 device -- and since we have not ever used them before or 

 5 anything, I -- we don't know much about it. If they 

 6 take a hand-held device, say, to the pool or something, 
 7 does that make that area a gaming area that would be 

 8 regulated by OPG?

 9 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I don't know if you want 

 10 to weigh in. I'm happy to weigh in on it. 

 11 MR. YORK: I have a second part to the 

 12 question.

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay, yes. 

 14 MR. YORK: Also, that's kinda close to the 

 15 first, but okay, if it's on tribal land, does it have to 
 16 be inside the facility? What if they want to -- and I'm 

 17 being the devil's advocate here -- tribal land 50 miles 

 18 away where there is no casino, could they get on a 

 19 device there and game in that casino? 

 20 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Well, that raises all 

 21 sorts of questions about geo fencing and what have you, 

 22 but I don't know if you want to weigh in on the 

 23 technical side of all that. 
 24 COMMISSIONER WALDO: Yeah, the technical side, 

 25 we can very easily isolate that to where they can't. 
 107

 1 You know, again, the regulatory bodies determine, you 

 2 know, and then based on all the regulations, you know, 

 3 what's casino property, what isn't, we can fence that 

 4 very easily. That technology is in existence. It's 

 5 relatively old now, but as far as, you know, what is a 

 6 gaming area, that's probably more of a question for the 
 7 TGRAs, and you know, general counsel than me.

 8 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And so, you know, my 

 9 first response would be, you know, we would have to talk 

 10 about it in terms of any draft language. We welcome 

 11 comments, but unless there was something that required 

 12 it to be determined -- I mean, deemed a gaming area 

 13 under IGRA, we're talking about access on -- I mean, 

 14 through a secured mobile -- mobile connection. I don't 

 15 know if that would automatically create a gaming area 
 16 situation, but we would have to of course talk about it 

 17 and review it with office of general counsel. And it's 

 18 just an initial thought of it, but certainly before we 

 19 put pen to paper in any final form, we welcome input. 

 20 Additional questions and comments before we go to a 

 21 catch all? 

 22 Okay. With that, you know, we'll kind of open it 

 23 up to any final comments or -- I know we covered a lot 
 24 of ground today. We covered some very important topics. 

 25 As I said before, I never want anyone to feel that they 
 108

 1 only had one bite at the apple to share comments or ask 

 2 questions. 

 3 We'll open it up to a catch all, but at the 

 4 conclusion of that, if folks think about questions or 

 5 comments on the drive home, I encourage everybody to 

 6 submit to -- any questions they want to submit in 
 7 writing, but also to attend and encourage others to 

 8 attend our upcoming consultation sessions. We want this 

 9 to be an ongoing dialogue. 

 10 At the end of June for this session, as I 

 11 mentioned, we'll be compiling and -- we'll be compiling 

 12 all comments submitted up to that point and then we'll 

 13 begin reviewing all of them before any deliverable 

 14 action and so these comments are part of our 

 15 deliberative process. 
 16 So with that, any final comments, questions, 

 17 statements that anybody would like to share? 

 18 MS. KAISER COLLIER: I know you're thinking, 

 19 oh, I might. Barbara Collier. In the past, way past, 

 20 when audits, year-end audits and management responses 

 21 were -- external audits and management responses were 

 22 submitted to NIGC, in return, we would get the letter of 

 23 acknowledgment or whatever. I don't know what you call 
 24 it yourself, but in your -- in our past leadership for 

 25 NIGC, they changed that submission of that from sending 
 109

 1 it to the regulator to sending it directly to the chief 

 2 or chairman of the tribe. And I'm not wanting you not 

 3 to send it to him, but I want -- I feel like that the 

 4 regulators should also get the same information at the 

 5 same time, because then when the chairman or chief 

 6 contacts us, in my situation, the chairman, and if I'm 
 7 not notified of the information that's on there, then I 

 8 can't respond. 

 9 So since it's our daily task to perform those

 10 duties, I would request that -- I don't know. Maybe you 

 11 have switched it back, but that we, in turn, get our 

 12 information so that we can intelligently respond when 

 13 we're contacted. 

 14 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you, 

 15 Ms. Collier. And this is an important question and I 
 16 want us to be always available to be responsive to 

 17 questions, even if they are not part of the formal 

 18 consultation list, but let me -- let me speak to that 

 19 very briefly. This raises some important protocol 

 20 questions, and we strive to be respectful of all of our 

 21 partners. 

 22 We've heard similar concerns raised by tribal 

 23 leadership that, you know, sometimes when we're talking 
 24 to our fellow regulators, that leadership doesn't always 

 25 know what the story is. So, you know, it's -- we have 
 110

 1 some protocols in place, depending on the nature of the 

 2 correspondence. And you mentioned audits, but there are 

 3 other types of regulatory correspondence that we 

 4 undertake. And typically in respect to -- in respect of 

 5 the nation-to-nation relationship, if there is a new 

 6 communication, our first order of business is to reach 
 7 out to tribal leadership and say, you know, we wish to 

 8 respect and honor the nation-to-nation relationship, but 

 9 if there -- you know, there are going to be some very 

 10 detailed nuts and bolts questions, we're always happy to 

 11 work with our regulatory partners as well, but please 

 12 feel free to designate who you'd like us to work with. 

 13 So sometimes the tribal leadership will designate 

 14 an office, their office of general counsel or attorney 

 15 general, if it's -- if it's largely a legal matter. 
 16 It's kind of case by case, but we're aware of the need 

 17 to loop in. You know, as regulators, you're our 

 18 day-to-day partners. We try to loop our partners in as 

 19 much as possible, but there are protocol issues involved 

 20 with -- we don't want to leave leadership out of the 

 21 loop either. 

 22 And so it's kind of case by case and we've -- we've 

 23 lately been copying both and if leadership gets tired of 
 24 hearing from us, we'll say please feel -- if you're 

 25 comfortable with us moving forward, just stay in contact 
 111

 1 with the TGRA. We're happy to do that, but we always 

 2 want to be respectful of tribal leadership as well. 

 3 MS. KAISER-COLLIER: Yeah, and I'm not asking 

 4 you don't send it. I'm just asking that if you send it 

 5 to them, send it to me, too, so I can know what's -- you 

 6 know, when I get called up what --
 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I don't know, Christinia, 

 8 if you want to add anything to that, but we try to loop 

 9 in everybody --

 10 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yeah, it should be going 

 11 to both.

 12 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: It should be going to 

 13 both. It's kind of a protocol tweak we've made recently 

 14 to try to be as respectful to everybody as possible. 

 15 MS. KAISER COLLIER: Okay. Thank you.
 16 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I mean, support tribes as 

 17 the primary regulators of Indian gaming, and it's the 

 18 TGRAs who are the embodiment of that and so we are 

 19 always honored to be part of TGCRs functions when we're 

 20 able to kinda piggyback our schedule, you know, kinda to 

 21 coincide with your conference, because we -- we respect 

 22 the work that regulators do day in and day out and we're 

 23 very proud of the relationship that we have with our 
 24 fellow regulators, but we're also respectful of the 

 25 nation-to-nation relationship with, you know, tribal 
 112

 1 leadership as well. Thank you for that. Try to loop in 

 2 both. 

 3 MS. KAISER COLLIER: That's good. That's 

 4 great. I appreciate it.

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Uh-huh. 

 6 MS. KAISER COLLIER: Keeps me out of trouble.
 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Ms. Collier. 

 8 So any other final comments, questions? 

 9 Okay. Well, as I said before, there's no crime in 

 10 finishing early. I -- I want to make sure that 

 11 everybody feels that they have a full opportunity to 

 12 weigh in, so I'll say going once, going twice. 

 13 With that, I want to -- there's Chairman 

 14 Hummingbird. With that, I want to thank everybody for 

 15 taking the time, especially getting up early and 
 16 starting at 8:30 this morning, taking the time to be 

 17 here today. Consultation is vital to the work that we 

 18 all do together and thank you and blessings to you and 

 19 safe travels on your -- on your way home and we look 

 20 forward to continuing meaningful, ongoing dialogue with 

 21 all of you. Mvto. Thank you.

 22 (End of consultation.)

 23 
 24 

 25 
 113

 1 C E R T I F I C A T E

 2 

 3 I, Shannon S. Harwood, CSR do hereby certify that 

 4 on March 23, 2014, at 3:41 p.m. at the River Spirit 

 5 Casino, 8330 Riverside Parkway, Tulsa, Oklahoma, there 

 6 came before me tribal consultation; and that the 
 7 foregoing pages constitute a full, true, and correct 

 8 transcript of the tribal consultation on the date as 

 9 indicated.

 10 I do further certify that I am not counsel, 

 11 attorney, or relative of either party, or otherwise 

 12 interested in the event of this suit.

 13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and 

 14 affixed my seal this 3rd day of April, 2017.

 15 
 16 

 17 

 18 

 19 

 20 __________________________

 21 Shannon S. Harwood, CSR

 22 

 23 
 24 

 25 

 26