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NATIONAL INDIAN GAMING COMMISSION CONSULTATION

April 20, 2017

Northern Hotel

Billings, Montana

Transcribed by:

LAUREN SCHECHTER, CCR, CCP
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>>CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Before we get into 

introductions, and further discussion, we're honored to 

have (inaudible) Bruce House, Crow Tribe to open us up with 

a blessing. Mr. House. 

>>BRUCE HOUSE: (Native language spoken). 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Mr. House is a 

member of the Commission at Crow. He's been a member for 

40 years, since NIGC (inaudible) and the community and the 

staff. 

So thank you so much for taking the time 

to be here. My name is Jonodev (inaudible) Chaudhuri. I'm 

Muscogee Creek and East Indian from India. I always say 

it's a far, far east Tribe. But I'm honored to be here, and 

in territory today. Very excited to have a positive 

consultation, but more importantly, I'm very excited to be 

in the territory of so many strong nations. We had the 

opportunity to visit Crow and Northern Cheyenne yesterday,

and we're deeply humbled by the spirit that they work under 

to preserve their cultures and their communities. So I 

thank you for allowing us to be in your territory. I'm going 

to turn it over to my fellow Commissioners who will speak 

a little bit more about consultation and what we intend to 

achieve, and what we're trying to do through our 

consultations. But again, I wanted to thank everybody for 
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taking the time to be here. We do want to hear all 

perspectives and thoughts. And I thank you for honoring us 

with the dialogue today. So I'll turn it over to our Vice 

Chair.

>>KATHRYN ISOM-CLAUSE: Good afternoon, 

everybody. I'm Kathryn Isom-Clause. I'm Taos Pueblo and 

Vice Chair of the Commission. I'd like to start off with 

just a few general remarks about the importance of 

consultation, my role here today is to honor the 

relationship between the federal government and tribal 

nations. As part of the regulation, tribal voices are 

essential to our work. This ongoing dialogue that we have 

with you is one of the most important tools we have for 

developing strong policy and regulation. Excuse me. I 

have a bit of a sore throat today. Sorry about that. 

Tribal consultation allows us to fulfill 

the purposes of IGRA which as you all know are promoting 

tribal economic development, self-sufficiency and strong 

democratic governments by which we aim to safeguard benefits 

of gaming for future generations. 

I'd also like to mention that we're in the 

process of developing our required strategic plan. 

Consultation topic we'll talk about today reflect many of 

the priorities that are already in the strategic plan so the 

comments that we hear from you today will be also used to 
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help inform that work. There will be an opportunity to 

comment and direct strategic plan specifically in the 

future. We haven't received final guidance on that so we'll 

keep you updated on when the timing is for that process. 

Finally, I'd like to thank you all for 

taking the time to meet with us today, for welcoming us to 

your home lands, and I'd like to turn it over to Commissioner 

Simermeyer. 

>> SEQUOYAH SIMERMEYER: Thank you. Good 

afternoon, everyone. I'm Sequoyah Simermeyer, a member of 

the Coharie Tribe of North Carolina, and I want to join my 

colleagues on the Commission in thanking you for your time 

and for gathering here today. Mr. House, thanks for your 

opening, and the commitment everyone has made to engage in 

the dialogue today. 

I also want to join in in speaking a little 

about the importance of the consultation and how it's 

something that helps to not only define and maintain our 

governmental relationship, it helps to improve and enhance 

the quality of federal government's decision, and our 

decision-making process. And so I know it serves a 

multitude of purposes including maintaining the formality 

of our relationship between two governments as well as 

creating a forum where we can have a dialogue and create new 

ideas. 
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And with my fellow Commissioners, I know 

in this particular region we have the opportunity to 

appreciate the tribal representatives that are here today. 

We know that there is potentially some conflicts that 

weren't intended. We don't want to limit the opportunity 

for tribal leadership to engage in dialogue with us. There 

are some national issues we're talking about today, some 

specific issues affecting this region we're talking about 

today. We're working on how to best maintain those goals 

and serve those purposes of consultation and having an 

opportunity to have an interactive dialogue, and having an 

opportunity to making the formality of our relationship. 

So we just wanted to note that at the outset here so that 

process wouldn't be a hindrance to us continuing to have an 

ongoing conversation about the topics we're talking about 

today. 

I'll turn it back to our Chair to say thank 

you for the time and thoughts both today and moving forward 

in the coming weeks and we'll talk to you later. Thanks. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, 

Commissioner. I just want to echo all those comments from 

fellow Commissioners to a person at NIGC. We are committed 

to meaningful consultation. We believe that consultation 

is the bedrock of our work as an Agency and we have an ongoing 

commitment to never put pen to paper on anything that impacts 
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our partners in any significant way without engaging in 

meaningful consultation. So again, thank you for taking 

the time and putting in the effort to be here today. 

We have a few housekeeping matters before 

we begin the actual consultation itself. Let me go through 

those. They're kind of dry. But I think it's a necessary 

part of the process. But before we do that's correct I also 

want to thank Linda Durbin and her team out of our regional 

office who has worked hard with the rest of us from 

headquarters to set up the room, and get all the materials 

together, and help kick this off in a strong way. I also 

want to thank so many members of our team who are here in 

conjunction with the trainings we've been doing. I know 

many of you may have had the opportunity to sit in on those 

trainings. Thank for doing that. That's also another way 

for us to have meaningful dialogue as true partners, and in 

the regulatory world. Thank you for participating in the 

trainings and I thank our team members who have helped put 

on those trainings. 

So today's consultation we want to be open 

and meaningful. It's truly for -- it's an outgrowth of our 

nation to nation commitment. But because of that, we're 

here primarily to hear from tribal leaders and tribal 

regulators as designees of their tribal nations. If 

there's anybody who is not designated by their tribal 
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nation, either in a Commissioner function, or a leadership 

function, please let us know. We want to hear all comments 

and thoughts. But only with the agreement of tribal 

leadership and tribal Commissioners. So if there are any 

objections to anybody else who doesn't fit in the category 

of being in this room, please let us know. But after we've 

heard all tribal leaders and all tribal Commissioners have 

had every opportunity to share whatever they may want to 

share, we are open to hearing from others if there's 

unanimous agreement to allow that. 

Along those lines, these meetings and 

these consultations are usually transcribed. We don't have 

a transcriptionist here today. We're going to have a

recording of today's consultation, and that recording will 

be later transcribed. For that reason, I ask that everybody 

actually speak directly into the microphone so that we can 

have an accurate transcription when all of this is done. 

Those transcriptions benefit other tribes who may not have 

been able to make it here today. We want this to be part 

of a larger Indian country discussion, a gaming industry 

discussion. And those transcriptions are an important part 

of that. And so please feel free to state your name, your 

tribal affiliation, and whatever capacity you're here today 

in when you make those introductions. 

In the spirit of true discussion, it's 
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always good to know who we're among. So we're going to go 

through some introductions at this point. There are a lot 

of folks from NIGC here. But a lot of us are here because 

we participate in the trainings as well. And once we go 

through introductions, we'll start the consultation itself. 

We're scheduled to go until five today. There's no shame 

or crime in finishing early if everybody has had really every 

opportunity to share their concerns or comments, or ask 

questions. If there are no other comments, we may finish 

early. But we are scheduled to go through five. 

So I'll go through a couple more 

housekeeping matters after introductions. But at this time 

if we can go in a circle in this direction, and we'll just 

introduce ourselves so we all know who we are speaking among. 

>> Hello. My name is Shannon Keller 

O'Loughlin. I'm a citizen of the Choctaw Nation of 

Oklahoma, and I'm Chief of Staff for the NIGC. 

>> CHRISTINIA THOMAS: Good afternoon. 

My name is Christinia Thomas. I'm the deputy chief of staff 

of the NIGC, and I'm also a member of (inaudible) of 

Minnesota. 

>> YVONNE LEE: Good afternoon. My name 

is Yvonne Lee. I'm the Director of Finance for the National 

Indian Gaming Commission. 

>> TRAVIS WALDO: Hello. Travis Waldo. 
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I'm the Director of Technology for the National Indian 

Gaming Commission. 

>> I'm Kateri Hogan. I'm the general 

manager (inaudible). 

>> Howard Hogan. Assistant general 

manager (inaudible) casino. 

>> Good afternoon. Clyde Joel Brady, Vice 

Chairman, Northern Cheyenne Gaming Commission. 

>> Good afternoon. My name is Sunshine 

Woodenlegs. I'm Chair of the Northern Cheyenne Gaming 

Commission. 

>> My name is Terry HiwWalker. I am the 

gaming manager of the (inaudible) casino of the Northern 

Cheyenne Indian reservation. 

>> My name is Johnson James. I'm the 

Compliance Officer for the Northern Cheyenne Gaming 

Commission. 

>> Good afternoon. My name is Julie 

Schwenke. I'm the chairperson for the Fort Belknap Gaming 

Commission. 

>> Jim Kittson, Blackfeet Gaming 

Commission. 

>> Jim Realbird, (inaudible) horse racing 

department of south (inaudible) casino. 

>> Trevor Cox, Title 31 Compliance Officer 
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for the Three Affiliated Tribes. 

>> Leonard Bends, member of the Board for 

the (inaudible) casino. 

>> Phil Beaumont, and I'm the Crow Tribe 

Gaming Commissioner. 

>> Bruce House. I'm on the Gaming 

Commission for the Crow Tribe. 

>> Good afternoon. I'm LaVern Old Elk, 

Chairwoman for Crow Tribal Gaming Commission. 

>> Rick Birdinground, Crow Tribe Gaming 

Commission. 

>> Hi. I'm Jim McKee. I'm a compliance 

officer with the NIGC in the Rapid City office. 

>> (Inaudible) compliance for the 

(inaudible) Sioux Tribe. 

>> Rosella Morin, Vice-Chairwoman for the 

Northern Arapaho Gaming Commission. 

>> Francine Dupuis, (inaudible) of S & K 

Gaming (inaudible). 

>> Carole Lankford, tribal council 

representing Salish and Kootenai tribes. 

>> Good afternoon. Robert Two Bears, Ho 

Chunk Nation, District 5 representative legislature. 

>> Good afternoon. Jenni Wild Cat, 

regulator (inaudible) for the Northern Arapaho Tribe. 
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>> Good afternoon. My name is Luke 

Parisian, Chippewa Cree council member. 

>> Good afternoon. My name is Joe 

Demontiney. I'm a Chippewa Cree council member. 

>> (Speaking in native language) Arik 

Williams, Sisseton Wahpeton Oyate Gaming Commission. 

>> Good afternoon. My name is Betty 

Whiskeychan, I'm the Title 31 Compliance Officer from 

(inaudible) casino, South Dakota. 

>> Good afternoon. I'm Brian Miller, CEO 

of S & K gaming, LLC. 

>> Hello. My name is Renee Pierre, 

Controller, S & K Gaming. 

>> Hello. Susan Waukon, NIGC. 

>> Hello. Josh (inaudible) with the NIGC, 

auditor. 

>> Suzanne Nunn, NIGC office of general 

counsel staff attorney. 

>> Karen D. Marron. I'm the internal 

auditor for the Upper Sioux Gaming Commission and 

(inaudible). 

>> Kelly Pitsenberger, Royal River Casino, 

Flandreau Santee Sioux Tribe internal auditor. 

>> Steve Nelson, Compliance Officer with 

the Flandreau Santee Sioux Tribe. 
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>> Steve Brewer, Training Manager for the 

National Indian Gaming Commission. 

>> Heather Corson. I'm Crow tribal member 

and I'm the associate general counsel of the National Indian 

Gaming Commission. 

>> (Speaking in native language). My 

apologies for stepping in late. Rudolph Old Crow, Crow 

Tribe Secretary. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you again 

everyone for being here. Consultation isn't a one size fits 

all idea for us. It's a living, breathing obligation that 

as trustees I think should inform everything we do at NIGC. 

So thank you for being here. In addition to today's 

consultation, we want to be open to hearing any comments or 

ideas beyond today. So if on the drive home you think of 

something you wish you would have said, please feel free to 

submit any written comments that you may wish to submit. 

Also, our phone lines are always open if anybody wants to 

contact any of us at NIGC. I want you to feel free to do 

so. But thank you for taking the time to be here in person 

today. 

As part of that living, breathing idea, we 

do have some additional consultations coming up in the 

coming weeks. I want to invite participation from everyone 

at these. But please help us spread the word. May 4th 
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we're going to be in Biloxi, Mississippi. And on May 25th 

we're going to be in the Portland area in conjunction with 

the affiliated tribes of northwest Indians. 

These consultations that we're currently 

involved in cover six topics. We're going to hear from 

specific subject matter experts on those topics before 

opening up Q & A period after that. But we are committed 

to being engaged in consultation for everything we do. For 

these topics, the comment period will end July 1st. We're 

going to compile all the comments that we've received and 

work as diligently as we can to work quickly on deliverables 

from those comments. However, I don't want anybody to feel 

constrained by that deadline. We're always open to ideas 

and suggestions. And if anybody has any criticisms, we're 

always open to that as well. So for this series, we're going 

to review all comments at the end of June. So if there's 

anything you want on the record for this session, getting 

those in before July 1st would be helpful, but I don't want 

anybody to feel that that's the only time we'll listen to 

comments and suggestions. 

So with that let me just quickly go through 

the topics that we're going to hear about more today. The 

first is very important to us. It's an open-ended topic 

that we hope results in significant discussion. That is 

what can we do as an Agency to support smaller and rural 
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operations. We have some ideas, but more important than our 

ideas, we want to hear ideas on any regulations we should 

consider, any operational functions we should consider, any 

compliance efforts we should consider that will help us meet 

our mission of supporting tribal self-sufficiency, tribal 

economic development and strong tribal governments. We 

recognize that in order to meet that mission, we have to do 

whatever we can to support smaller rural communities, and 

we welcome your suggestions on that topic. And we have our 

chief of staff Shannon O'Loughlin who will give us a little

more background. 

Second, we're going to be discussing our 

strong work force initiative. And specifically, we want to 

hear comments about how we can continue to improve our 

trainings to help provide the most support to our Indian 

country partners in supporting the tribal gaming landscape. 

Third, we're going to talk about 

management contracts. Fourth, we're going to talk about 

technical standards for mobile gaming devices. Fifth, 

we're going to talk about how we structure our fee calendar. 

Sixth, we're going to talk about nonbinding voluntary 

guidance regarding Class III regs. 

The subject matter experts for the items 

two through six are Steve Brewer, our training manager will 

talk about training. Our finance Director Ms. Yvonne Lee 
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will talk about management agreements. Our technology 

division Director Mr. Travis Waldo will talk about mobile 

gaming devices. And finally, our deputy chief of staff who 

again I thank you for putting together the medicine pouch, 

will talk about our nonbinding voluntary guidance regarding 

Class III mix. 

Any questions before we begin about 

process or just any of these housekeeping items? I know 

some folks have to catch a plane sometimes, or have to drive 

a long way. If anybody really needs to get a statement on 

the record right now before they have to leave, please let 

us know. Otherwise we'll move forward with our first topic. 

I'm going to turn it over to Shannon 

O'Loughlin. 

>>SHANNON O'LOUGHLIN: Thank you. 

Hello, everyone. What you'll see, just to add to what the 

Chairman said, each one of the subject matter experts is 

going to be reading from a script. And we're doing that 

because we are giving many consultations, and we want to be 

consistent about the background information. And then once 

we read our script, then we'll open it up for you to discuss 

that -- for discussions on that topic. And then we'll move 

to the next topic. 

So let's get started with rural outreach. 

This like the Chairman said is an open-ended topic that we 
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want to consult with you about. To get started I want to 

make sure everyone knows Ms. Susan Waukon who is sitting back 

there is our rural outreach coordinator, which is a new 

position that the Agency created to help with this 

initiative, and to lead it forward. And she is a former 

member of council in the Ho Chunk Nation and we're very happy 

to have her and her expertise. 

Here we go. We're looking for your 

feedback on how we can do a better job with our rural outreach 

initiative. We've proposed no regs. We don't have 

anything to offer for you to review. We're really just 

looking for a full discussion, and ideas about how you are 

coming into compliance, whether it's burdensome for some 

things in your operations, or if there's anything else that 

we can do to provide better training or technical 

assistance. 

We all know at Indian country that most of 

our tribal lands are in rural areas. Reaching out to 

smaller gaming operations that may not be situated near a 

strong market is an important initiative of the Agency. The 

NIGC recognizes the likely correlation between proximity to 

large population centers and the viability of economic 

opportunities for tribes. Therefore, NIGC appreciates 

that its functions will likely benefit from a greater 

understanding of the unique needs of smaller operations. 
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NIGC has historically taken into account the needs and 

capabilities of smaller gaming operations through some of 

its regulations already. For instance, NIGC's regulations 

for minimum internal control standards and accounting 

requirements differ between tier A facilities that earn less 

than 8 million, tier B facilities that earn between 8 and 

15 million, and tier C facilities that earn over 15 million. 

And we know from annual gross gaming revenue that the 

majority of our tribal gaming operations throughout Indian 

country are smaller facilities with lower gross gaming 

revenue. 

Any small rural gaming operations provide 

their communities with much needed jobs but may earn little 

net revenue to support tribal governmental services. 

The Commission has a responsibility to 

review our regulations to ensure that compliance is 

reasonable, and achievable for all operations, while 

protecting the integrity of gaming as a whole. The NIGC may 

find through this consultation and from your comments that 

current regulations could be amended to better address the 

regulatory needs of smaller operations. In addition, the 

NIGC provides technical assistance and training to all 

tribes and enforces IGRA in its regulations to ensure tribes 

are the primary beneficiaries of their gaming operations. 

As a part of our rural outreach initiative, 
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we are also currently considering splitting the St. Paul 

region to two regions. In order to better meet technical 

assistance and training needs of small rural tribes, the 

Commission is also considering creating an eighth region 

that would include North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and 

Montana. These states are currently served out of the St. 

Paul region which is the largest administrative region of 

the Agency, which currently covers nine states, 59 tribes, 

and 144 gaming operations. To help address the needs of 

western tribes in the region, in 2003 the Rapid City 

satellite office was added to the St. Paul region to better 

reach the tribal gaming operations in north and South

Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana. By splitting up the St. Paul 

and Rapid City offices into separate administrative 

regions, the St. Paul regional office would then cover only 

five states: Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and 

Nebraska. 37 tribes and 95 tribal gaming operations. The 

new Rapid City regional office would cover four states: 

Montana, Wyoming, North and South Dakota, with 22 tribes and 

45 tribal gaming operations. This split will not take away 

any resources or budget from any region, and only split the 

resources between the St. Paul and Rapid City offices as 

appropriate. 

The NIGC would like to hear any questions 

or feedback, and ask specifically for your discussion and 
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comments about, one, whether regulatory revisions are 

needed that protect tribal gaming revenue and the integrity 

of Indian gaming while not burdening smaller operations; 

two, whether NIGC should adjust the way we do business in 

our training, technical assistance, and compliance efforts 

to provide better assistance where needed; and finally, 

three, whether the NIGC should create an eighth region to 

provide a stronger connection to tribes located in North 

Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming. 

Open for questions, discussion. 

>> A question regarding (inaudible). I 

have a written statement on all of your topics. So I'm not 

sure if you want me to wait to the end to give my comments, 

or jump in. I'm not sure. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for 

that. Thank you for that. Really it's up to you. We have 

six topics, and so we're going to have a Q & A session after 

each topic. You're welcome to bring in your statement 

however you like. We'll have a catch all section at the end. 

We always do that because sometimes our discussions 

themselves facilitate dialogue and more ideas. So you're 

welcome to submit your written statement, and also frame it 

however you'd like. 

>> Normally I would read my comments, and 

then I have my experts that sit around me to be able to answer 
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any questions, or add any additional comments that they may 

have because they work in the field (inaudible) and I don't 

work in the field but I do have knowledge of these issues. 

So I can hold my comments until the end until we have a chance 

to go through all of the six items that you pointed out and 

then I can read my statement. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much. 

And just for benefit of the recording, do you mind --

>> Carole Lankford, Salish and Kootenai 

tribes. I apologize. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much. 

>> Jenni Wild Cat, Northern Arapaho. 

(Inaudible) I'm just going to put it out here in the first 

part. Yesterday I had the privilege of speaking with a 

large group of tribal members from our region, our tribal 

leaders from our region. And I reminded them about the 

consultation day and about the written comments. And we had 

quite a number of them saying that they had no knowledge of 

this. So what possibilities are there or what options do 

we have to have more of an outreach? I understand the 

government to government relationship where you're going to 

send an email out to the Chairmen. But (inaudible) a 

hundred emails a day and so they might not be able to go 

through it. And so is there an option to get a secondary 

person, whether it be the Vice Chair or another designated 
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individual to keep that line of communication open? 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much 

for that comment. As Commissioner Simermeyer stated 

before, especially given the importance of communication 

with nations in this area, we're talking about rural 

outreach and all these things that impact the nations here, 

we're actively looking at additional opportunities to 

provide an update, possibly Rocky Mountain leaders. But we 

recognize that not everybody heard notice in the same way 

even though we did send out that one communication. We want 

to be transparent as we can be, and let everyone know. And 

so if there are specific ways for us to do things better, 

please let us know. But a second notification, that's 

something easy that we can work on as part of our process. 

I think we can absolutely commit to that. In addition to 

that, we've asked our -- we've been asking our regions to 

even work harder to make sure the relationships with 

leadership as well as the regulatory partners is as strong 

as it can be. And so we absolutely intended to get the word 

out the best that we could. And again, we thank everyone 

here today. We can always do better. We want to do better. 

And if there are specific ideas about how we should do things 

better, please let us know. But a second notification I 

think we can commit to that right now. And if you have 

thoughts about where that would be most effective in terms 
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of where that would go, we do send it to -- I think the Chair 

and the counsels themselves. But we also understand many, 

many demands on time that tribal leadership has. And so 

thank you. Thank you. 

Anybody want to add to that? 

>> Yes. We had a dear tribal leader letter 

go out back in November that announced our consultations. 

And since then we've been updating our website regularly. 

And we've also been pushing out emails to tribal leadership 

as well as Gaming Commissions. And we realize, you know, 

how much we can always do better with our communication with 

tribes. So what we are doing actually for all tribes in the 

St. Paul region is that we are actually -- I think it's going 

out tomorrow -- we're sending out a letter as well as the 

packet of consultation materials to all the tribes' 

leadership. So to the Executive, the Chairman, the 

President, the Chief. So you should be getting those next 

week. 

And we will be following up with this with 

the results of our consultations with further dear tribal 

leader letters. And we will just continue to do better. If 

there's ever any ideas of who best to communicate with in 

your tribes, please let us know. 

>> (Inaudible) particularly the most 

effective way to do it, and to find some balance where 
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there's an opportunity for dialogue, and conversation. But 

acknowledging what the first two speakers had said, there's 

always -- our goal is to make an effective -- have an 

effective decision-making process to get a true picture and 

knowing that's a blend of representatives, technical 

experts. (Inaudible) I think that would be an important 

objective in the order we do in terms of following up with 

this making sure we are able to have that dialogue, have the 

right experts, and also involve tribal leadership too. If 

I can make a request to please pass on to your colleagues 

and other representatives who may not be here, to help spread 

the word in that way as well. And working in other federal 

settings outside the National Indian Gaming Commission, I 

appreciate your point about (inaudible) if there's an 

appropriate point of contact or a one size fits all approach 

on the federal side doesn't work. If there's a better way 

to communicate in terms of dynamics in your community please 

let us know. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for 

that. 

>> Robert Two Bears, Ho Chunk Nation. I 

have a broad question. Tribal leaders always participate 

in some of these consultations, and I sit on the (inaudible) 

consultation. We had met with the secretary down there. 

We had talked about some conservation internal policies. I 
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think (inaudible) priorities, and topics as far as the next 

administration coming in. One of my concerns is that we 

didn't really move forward on our consultation topics at the 

CDC. The Gaming Commission here is in transition. You 

don't have to say it, but you're leaving here pretty soon. 

And I worry about this transition, what's going to happen 

to our topics. We're going to talk about it now. The Ho 

Chunk Nation supports rural outreach. As far as adding to 

programs and services, I think that's key for you to keep 

engaging with tribes. I think there's a lot of points as 

far as more outreach that can be done. But I just worry 

about us submitting these comments, and then with the new 

administration coming in, (inaudible). You proposed the 

budget, and I know you guys are planning for 2017 or 2018. 

I just worry about how this is going to be followed through 

on your side with the Trump administration and new assistant 

secretary for the Interior, and so on. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, sir, 

for that question. Let me say a couple of things. First 

of all, I appreciate that general statement regarding Ho 

Chunk's support for rural outreach efforts, and along 

similar lines we're grateful for Susan Waukon's leadership 

and her work with the Agency. Of course, bolstered by her 

experiences as a tribal leader with Ho Chunk. So the work 

that Susan has been doing of compiling information and data 
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has been very important. But we do want it to go smoother 

and we do want it to have legs. Actually we just had a 

discussion on this very topic. 

All I can say is this. I can't speculate 

on the future. I can't talk about how other agencies are 

approaching their priorities. But what I can talk about is 

what we're doing at NIGC. Largely due to the advocacy of 

Indian country, there are some good things -- I mean, IGRA 

itself is by no means perfect, but there are some good things 

in there. Because of the advocacy of the tribal leadership, 

training is mandatory for us. That's not always the case 

for civil regulatory agencies. But we're required to be 

committed to training. Similarly, because we're a 

regulatory Agency, our structure is in itself designed to 

be objective. And so regulation of tribal gaming is 

supposed to be as fair and objective as possible. That's 

why there's political diversity cooked into the Commission. 

The Commission itself can't be made up of more than two 

members of a given party. There's Indian country 

perspective that's required in the Commission. That's why 

two of the Commissioners are tribal members. And 

furthermore, there's some stability cooked into the 

Commission. That's why we all have three-year staggered 

terms. I do have one year left on my term. My fellow 

Commissioners have longer terms than I do. And so I can't 
26

speculate as to the future. But what I can say is these 

comments that we're receiving today, once we finish in June, 

we're going to work on actual deliverables. The timing is 

going to coincide with our strategic plan that will set forth 

the Agency's priorities. At least for the near future. 

And so who knows? We may be on the Commission 50 years, or 

we could not be. I don't know. I can't speculate. But 

what we do want to do is hear comments, and see what we can 

institutionalize at the Agency to make sure that we are 

equipped to do what our statute requires us to do. That's 

to support tribal economic development. 

So we want to do as much as we can this year 

as we can, and get as much done as we can. 

>> I would just add that one of the things 

that's important in making any (inaudible) defensible and 

durable is to work with our colleagues. So I think there's 

opportunities in some of these topics for us to engage with 

our colleagues across the administration. I think some of 

the topics are accepted, if not all of them (inaudible). In 

the relationships that we have, both between federal 

government and state government, federal government and 

tribal government, and within the federal family there's 

opportunities for us to develop best practice and reach 

common ground. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that 
27

comment. In addition to our day to day regulatory work 

there's a public education responsibility that I think we 

have that's part of our overall responsibility to support 

the integrity of Indian gaming. And that public education 

aspect does involve our work with other agencies. And 

so -- there may be very responsive folks in other agencies, 

responsive to many of these topics. I know there are. But 

it's not new for us to live up to our responsibility in our 

meetings with our partners. We always have a 

responsibility to frame the history of Indian gaming, to 

frame IGRA. And we do our level best in all of our public 

and more intimate meetings to do that. I'm very mindful of 

that comment. All we can talk about is what's in front of 

us. We're just going to do our best. 

>> I appreciate your comments. I don't 

know how many times as a tribal leader I've been across this 

nation and I've heard tribes talk about consultation. And 

then what's going to happen with consultation. I think you 

just pointed that out, that you're going to use it in the 

strategic plan. It sounds like the staff here are going to 

continue on with the Commission. So there's something to 

carry forward. I never ever -- in fact, when President 

Obama was in office, I was one of the 12 leaders that got 

to meet with him. That's the number one thing I brought up 

with him. Tribes need to be in the ball park when we're 
28

talking about issues that affect us. So I appreciate this 

opportunity. And if you want me to, I'll go ahead and read 

my comments. Maybe it will kick something off. I don't 

know. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Please. 

>> Okay. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you --

>> Carole Lankford. Sorry --

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for the 

work it takes to prepare the comments. We appreciate it. 

>> Like I said, I have tribal staff who are 

excellent in the field and they make up the comments for the 

Tribe and try to keep us out there, and knowledgeable so we 

are able to come and talk about this intelligently. So 

thank you. 

Let me put on my glasses. 

Carole Lankford, Salish & Kootenai 

Tribe. The Confederated Salish & Kootenai Tribe recognize 

the value of consultation process and here by submit the 

following comments to the proposed action. CSKT believes 

the Class III minimum control standards should remain 

voluntary, nonbinding guidance for Class III internal 

controls. As tribes without a Class III gaming contract we 

understand the importance of having such regulatory 

guidelines available to us as a resource. We should 
29

negotiate -- if we should negotiate a compact in the future 

Class III guidelines will be useful. As pertaining to the 

matter of technical standards for mobile gaming devices, 

CSKT believes the proposed draft language should be a 

guidance document, or bulletin, but not a regulation. CSKT 

maintains a tribal regulatory authority (inaudible) of 

reviewing guidance and developing regulations specific to 

our unique needs. We believe there is a value in a guidance 

document that should be modified as new technology is 

developed. As you are all probably aware, the wireless 

technology industry is rapidly changing at a pace much 

faster than the pace at which federal regulations are 

adopted. Grandfathered class II gaming systems described 

in 25CFR547 are a core component of the CSKT business model. 

CSKT highly recommends eliminating the (inaudible) for 

section 4547 Class II gaming technical standard compliance. 

Should the November 10th, 2018 grandfather period remain in 

tact, CSKT stands to lose a substantial amount of gaming 

revenue. CSKT owns and operates two casinos that are both 

solely Class II gaming operations. We do not operate a 

Class III gaming machine. Gaming machines within our 

jurisdiction. Further, we derive part of our gaming 

revenue from two vendors with 160 grandfathered machines. 

Since 2013 our grandfathered vendors have generated more 

than $18.5 million in gross gaming revenue for CSKT. 
30

Needless to say, there are many concerns 

that the vendors will not be able to upgrade the gaming 

system at every tribal casino by November 2018. The small 

gaming tribes like CSKT who rely on these gaming revenues 

will be the hardest hit when gaming must be shut down in 

accordance with the sun set prohibition. 

Additionally, the (inaudible) solicited 

specific information from tribes regarding the impact of 

section 547 Class II technical standards. The tribes have 

taken steps to comply with the grandfathering prohibition 

and have encountered difficulties (inaudible) those 

prohibitions. Since 2008 CSKT has worked with our Class II 

gaming vendors to identify noncompliance machines. Our 

gaming operation upgrades -- our gaming operations upgrade 

to fully compliant gaming systems as they come available and 

when it makes financial sense to change the machine. 

Difficulties exist because noncompliant systems generate 

significant revenue and therefore do not warrant an upgrade. 

CSKT does not know of any risk a noncompliant game poses to 

our casino operation or to the gaming public. Certainly 

there are inherent risks within the gaming industry itself 

but we do not believe any grandfathered games pose a risk 

greater than those of fully compliant games. 

CSKT also believes risk can be mitigated 

by means other than section 547. For instance, we believe 
31

these risks can be mitigated by working with Class II vendors 

to implement technology as it becomes available. Thank you 

for your consideration. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you for 

those excellent comments. In terms of the grandfathering 

issue, we're actively working at headquarters on 

development of a draft plan that we'll share as soon as 

that's finished. That's very time sensitive. And so we're 

trying to turn that around quickly. But those comments are 

very helpful in helping us think through options. 

Anybody else want to address any of those 

points? Excellent, excellent comments. Thank you. 

Rural outreach. Let me just say a couple 

of more things on this. I talked about the public education 

aspect of our work. Highlighting what Indian gaming is, and 

what Indian gaming isn't is very important to us. We always 

tie things back to our statute that has the public policy 

purposes of our Agency laid out in it. And those purposes 

are to support tribal self-sufficiency, tribal economic 

development, and strong tribal governments. We always come 

back to that. But supporting rural communities, small 

facilities is essential to that. We always make the point 

that the majority of operations out there are small -- the 

vast majority are small and medium operations. And so we 

want to know what we can do to help support communities that 
32

maybe don't have the budgets that other larger facilities 

have. What we can do to support the regulatory efforts of 

our fellow Commissioners, what we can do regulation-wise to 

help facility economic development. So this is really an 

open-ended topic. I'm so thankful to be here in Montana 

talking about it because this topic really does impact a lot 

of the nations in this region. And we want to do what we 

can to help. I just want to throw that out there. 

>> Along those -- I'm sorry. Along those 

lines, I just wanted to add that we're not asking you to fix 

the problem for us. That's our job. We also want to hear 

what issues or things you run into when you're going about 

your daily business, what kinds of things might be affecting 

you specifically in this area, and around the plains 

especially. Don't think that we're just throwing this on 

you. Please share with us any open-ended ideas. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Absolutely. 

While we're bringing a microphone over, I just want to add 

one last point on that. I see Francine Dupuis in the 

audience. I always thank Francine for some comments she 

made regarding the IT capacities of certain tribal 

communities. Those comments helped us think about whether 

or not to move forward with a technology division. And 

those comments helped to inform that decision as well as some 

of the offerings of that division. I'm very thankful to Mr. 
33

Waldo's leadership. There's also a good member of our team 

named Sean Mason. We've worked with Christinia Thomas, 

Shannon O'Loughlin to really frame the technology division. 

But one of the important offerings of that division is the 

free IT vulnerability assessments that we now do. We'll go 

out into communities that request our assistance. Travis's 

team will perform an assessment, the IT functions of an 

operation. And we'll provide a statement that outlines the 

findings and recommendations. So I always think back on one 

comment that Francine made in a room like this in California, 

and how that's helped shape our Agency's commitment to 

technology, which has a lot of carry over into our rural 

outreach commitment. 

And so you never know where one comment 

will lead. I thank you for the comments that have been 

received today. But back to the open-ended nature of 

today's discussion, we want to know what we don't know. 

>> (Inaudible) for the operations. One of 

the things that we discussed yesterday and I want to bring 

up again today is reviewing the Class III job segregation 

for rural communities. Because it is more difficult for us 

to staff (inaudible) for those jobs. It's harder for us to 

maintain our budgets requiring amount of staff, even if it's 

for some minor job duties. We have to hire somebody 

specifically just for this job duty rather than somebody 
34

sharing that job duty. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that 

comment. I don't know if Steve Brewer, our training manager 

has anything he'd like to discuss on that, or perhaps 

Christinia Thomas. But I do want to say that we want to do 

what we can to provide meaningful training and technical 

assistance. We're very proud of the new Commissioner of 

trainings that we do as well as open trainings that we do. 

But either of you -- we try to be as respectful of tribal 

decision-making on the ground as possible. And so we don't 

do a lot of the certification ourselves. We'll leave that 

in many cases to the Commission, the tribal commissions. 

But we try to provide meaningful trainings when we do play 

that supporting role. 

>> I think the only thing I would add -- I 

guess I'll preface this as I'm a recovering auditor so I'm 

pretty familiar with what you're talking about. It just 

happened to be something that we talked about at lunch was 

specific laws of segregation of duties as it relates to 

operations. That's something that we discussed. It's 

probably needing to be looked at in the rural outreach 

category. So it is something that is in the forefront of 

our minds as far as what we do with something like that. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Again, just to 

follow up on that, maybe if you still have the microphone 
35

you could -- I'm sorry, I didn't mean to steal a microphone 

from somebody else. But we're always thankful for being 

allowed to be pay respect to any tribal nation that we're 

at. So we're very, very thankful for some of the visits 

we're able to have. And there was a good discussion in one 

of those visits about segregation. And if there's anything 

you'd like to add for the benefit of others who may not be 

here today, but who may be able to read the transcript later 

regarding why this is such an important issue, please feel 

free to add. 

>> I'm sorry for not saying my name for the 

record. It's Kateri Hogan from the (inaudible) casino. 

The main focus on the operation for the segregation of duties 

is just, for example, our lead team had to hire somebody 

specifically for that rather than have somebody there during 

that day to do it. It just creates budget issues. It 

creates different issues. Like that's another person we 

had to provide insurance for, that's another expense. And 

it's only for an a (inaudible). Those are some of our 

concerns, maintaining our budgets, but also trying to 

maintain segregation. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for 

that. 

>> The one thing I would say is in our 

regulations we allow for variances. So if there is 
36

something that is onerous for the tribes, and you have a 

better way of doing it, again, we have in our Commission 

regulations the request for variances. So if you have a 

suggestion or an idea that would work, and still meet the 

intent of the regulation, you're always, always free to 

submit a request to us. 

>> Thank you. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for 

that. Yes, sir. 

>> Jim Realbird, (inaudible) I work in the 

horse racing department. I'm not too sure that -- I think 

I was born a little bit too late. (Inaudible) one of the 

last people who hangs around horses around here. But you 

kind of looked at a reason (inaudible), tourism and 

agriculture, number one -- agriculture is number one economy 

for (inaudible). And for people that are in that industry, 

they're not too keen on this kind of carpet, and indoor, and 

lighting and stuff. But we have to support the (inaudible) 

fill up the stands. I don't know. You see the stadium out 

here, it was built in 1942. It's an old stadium. 

(Inaudible). We had racing there. And we had lots of 

Indian riders come, Indian trainers, Indian horses, from 

Dakota up through Wyoming up to Canada. And it died. Horse 

racing died in Montana. So the last event we had there, we 

had the Indian -- a promoter came and brought Indian relay. 
37

Not too sure you guys are familiar with Indian relay. It's 

an extreme sport, horse racing. And that thing filled up 

for a four-day event. There was no gaming. People just sat 

and watched. It was like six races a day. I didn't go 

somewhere else. So to bring that sport to 

agriculture -- come and fill out the place, but they don't 

come to our casinos. If we could bring our casinos to 

populated areas like Billings, some way -- I think I talked 

to Heather yesterday. If I could bring horse racing off the 

trust property, and I know it's a question up at Spokane or 

something like that. But that is going back to outreach, 

I talk over here, and I talk in abstract (inaudible) in 

between. By the time they get done talking, outreach and 

you guys (inaudible) I think there might be a trail for 

bringing back Indian relay and horse racing. But if there's 

any other tribes interested in trainings, I know there's 

accreditation and stuff like that for racing. That's all 

I have to say today. Thank you. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that 

comment. That's what I mean about you never know how the 

conversation will inform, or what ideas will come from it. 

We'll talk a little bit more with Heather about that 

conversation, and we'll see what areas of opportunity there 

might be to be supportive where we can. 

>> Howard Hogan, (inaudible) casino. I 
38

don't really want to open a can of worms, but, you know, a 

lot of things that would help -- I don't know if it's been 

covered here or in other sessions -- a small -- we're 

basically all smaller casinos throughout these four states. 

One of the major factors that we have to deal with is we're 

governed by the state compact. Even though the compact says 

that we're only entering into a compact to satisfy the 

requirements of the gaming ordinance, even though it says 

that, they also (inaudible), and they bring in regulations. 

So that is one area that limits us on the possibility of 

expanding. If we were to say, for example, put a casino 

outside the city limits of Billings, we're still restricted 

to putting the exact same games that every corner bar has. 

It's (inaudible) benefit for us to enter -- to try to build 

that bigger casino. I kind of hate to say this, but Montana, 

North, South Dakota, Arizona, and Washington are 

(inaudible) states which (inaudible) territory to the 

state, Congress put stipulations on them that they could 

never make any claim upon any reservation. In the case of 

Montana, Montana put that same statement in their 

Constitution, in their accordance, and in 1972 when they 

redid their Constitution -- state Constitution, they put the 

same statement in there. Okay? Now we get to the Indian 

Gaming Regulatory Act, it more or less forces us to submit 

to the state again. And I was wondering if there's any way 
39

that we can more or less squeeze out from underneath that 

relationship from the state. Take advantage of any 

opportunity we can in order to develop our economic 

well-being. I didn't want to ambush you. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for 

that. I'm looking around the team, anybody else that wants 

to weigh in. It's a great question. A great question. 

And so there is the easy answer where, you know, we can say 

we stay in our lane as an Agency which we do, and we're just 

governed by the laws as written right now. But I think more 

can be said. I think it is helpful to talk about where we've 

been. The 30th anniversary this year, the Cabazon 

decision. We were very grateful to be able to announce our 

gross gaming revenue numbers last year from Cabazon itself. 

And we appreciate the work that Indian country did to bring 

gaming as an option up to that point. But we also appreciate 

the work that Indian country did to fight those battles to 

affirm the tribes' right to regulate their own gaming 

activities that led to the Cabazon decision. I don't think 

it's controversial to say that IGRA which was passed in 

response to Cabazon was a limitation and restriction on 

sovereign authorities that -- there are many -- as I said 

before, many positive parts of IGRA. But IGRA carved out 

a role through the compacting process for states that wasn't 

in place before IGRA. So that was in 1988. Here we are 
40

largely because of the innovation and the regulation of 

Indian country and tribes, the industry has grown quite a 

bit. But we also -- back to rural outreach, we recognize 

that for many communities these are small jobs programs, or 

they just help provide modest support of tribal budgets. 

And so we have an ongoing obligation to do what we can where 

we can. But in terms of the compacting process that IGRA 

lays out, IGRA does provide for that. Whether or not there 

would be possible changes to that that were pushed by Indian 

country, we can't speak to that. But what I can say 

generally in terms of these concerns about the rule of 

states, Indian country has a powerful voice. And we're here 

to listen to that voice on the issues that -- we can address. 

But the responsibility that we have at NIGC is truly a nation 

to nation responsibility, trust responsibility that impacts 

other folks far beyond NIGC. And so I would 

encourage -- that's an excellent question. But whether 

it's on compacting issues or issues relating to -- I think 

somebody had mentioned land and trust issues. Whatever 

issue it is, please use that voice. There's only so much 

that we can do. Thank you. 

>> Jenni Wild Cat, Northern Arapaho. I 

know this should be for the next topic but I wanted to say 

it now to kind of go back to what this gentleman said. But 

I know you offer basic IGRA training. But is it possible 
41

where you spoke more than besides IGRA to go beyond IGRA. 

Like for instance, to talk about the Northern Arapaho 

(inaudible) to talk about these other federal laws, these 

other things that tribes have issues or questions on. 

Because it is a government to government relationship 

between our tribes and NIGC and the federal government that 

a lot of times our tribes don't know where to go. Like that 

question that this gentleman had, maybe if we expanded 

beyond just talking about the basic points of IGRA and seeing 

there are other methods out there that tribes could see, that 

they could negotiate in good faith, then we could have that 

guidance. Because right now a lot of tribes don't know 

where to turn. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: So let me say a 

couple of things before I turn it over to either Steve or 

Shannon or Christinia to talk a little bit more about the 

trainings. That kind of relates to best practices and 

observations in the field. One thing I think we're ramping 

up on a little bit more, and we don't have a name for this 

but it's just kind of one of these administrative things that 

we've been doing internally, we've been trying to take the 

blinders off the best that we can so that when we provide 

our trainings we do it the most helpful way that we can. So 

we are regulators, we are governed by IGRA and we do have 

to stay in our legal lane. But that doesn't mean that our 
42

trainings can't encompass observations from our experience, 

observations in the field. So our office of general counsel 

is always -- their door is always open to walk through legal 

issues, if somebody has a matter that kind of touches our 

lane. But at some point, they'll probably say we can't go 

beyond our lane. But within our lane, we don't want to have 

blinders on either. Steve, you want to talk about this 

more? I don't want to throw you under the bus, but I think 

there are two ways you can approach training. You can just 

have it be focused squarely on IGRA's regulatory authority's 

responsibilities, or you can say IGRA requires NIGC to play 

a larger role in the overall integrity of Indian gaming. 

And that's how I read IGRA, and that's how I see it. With 

that, our authorities go beyond just our narrow compliance 

responsibilities. We do have a role in the large landscape 

to provide technical assistance, to provide trainings where 

we can. We always have to tie it back to our legal authority 

though. But within that, we want to be as aggressive as we 

can be. Sorry to throw you under the bus. 

>> Yeah. The only thing I can really add 

to that is to echo what the Chairman is saying. We're 

ultimately working on enhancing and revamping our training 

program as it relates to what it is that we do. As I like 

to say, we're going through the process and approaches 

(inaudible) just a regulatory regurgitation but again it's 
43

only as it relates to what we have, what we're mandated as 

far as the regulations and stuff, as far as IGRA. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: The way I think 

about it -- I don't know how many basketball players are in 

here, is you pivot. If you take an extra step, all of a 

sudden that's traveling. But as long as we keep one foot 

on IGRA and what we do as an Agency, you can extend yourself 

pretty far. But we always have to keep that pivot foot down 

there. But we want to be as helpful as we can without 

traveling. I don't know if that helps. 

>> I think one of the points you were 

getting at (inaudible) ways that we can help. One of the 

things that we do through trainings and through our national 

perspective is to help present best practices (inaudible) 

over the course of Indian country. Perhaps we can be 

looking at how we can help to spread that, and similar 

guidance, and we'll be tailoring that whether for certain 

types of operations, helping to connect the dots. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you. 

Excellent question. We don't want to have blinders on. 

Sometimes we make referrals on things that are outside of 

our direct authority. But we make referrals to law 

enforcement based on information that commissions bring us 

or tribal leadership will bring us. Even if something is 

not in our direct authority we want to bring clarity and be 
44

as helpful as we can be. So excellent question. Thank you. 

>> Is it my turn? Francine Dupuis. The 

other option we have all the time that maybe you're not aware 

of is Class II. That's your ultimate leverage. You go to 

Class II, you don't have to have a number of machines to T 

state tells you. You don't have a limit on jackpot. We're 

strictly Class II at our facilities and we're doing fine. 

We probably should have done it a long time ago instead of 

negotiating our compact. And there's some people say 

there's no difference between Class II and Class III. But 

there is because they're bingo based. But that's where the 

money is. A lot of big casinos have mixed floors. They 

have Class II and Class III and the class IIs out do the Class 

III in some places. That's your other option. And maybe 

NIGC should have a separate training if compact gaming isn't 

right for you, here is how you go about being Class II. 

>> Carole Lankford. Also if you go to 

Class II, you never know, the state might step up and say 

we're willing to negotiate with you because because 

(inaudible) are not going to want to get rid of all the 

gaming. That's most specific for Salish & Kootenai because 

we have all of the town pumps and everything on the 

reservation. They had to shut down. They don't have a 

gaming on the reservation. There's a lever there that you 

can use against the state too. At one point I know the state 
45

was saying okay, we'll give you all of the referrals you want 

from the town pumps and everything. If you allow them to 

continue to game. Well, we want to be the only game in town 

so that's why we didn't do that. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for 

those points. In terms of rural outreach, we recognize the 

innovation and area of Class II that Indian country has 

engaged in, and how much of economic impact has come from 

that innovation when it comes to Class II alternatives, or 

Class II options. Now, in terms of trainings and tailoring 

them for rural communities, back to Commissioner 

Simermeyer's point about best practices, we're always happy 

to kind of share lessons from the road so to speak. But 

would it occur to think about training just beyond the 

regional trainings we do or our training calendar, Steve's 

team does a great job at providing direct Tribe specific 

trainings as well. We'll come into a given community upon 

request from a Tribe, and we're very proud of that. So if 

a Tribe is exploring, well, is this really a viable option 

to go this route, we're happy to train on the regulatory side 

of it. So if folks are talking or thinking about what are 

the pros and cons of moving forward with more of a Class II 

floor, we're happy to come in and work with you on that. 

With that, we have five more topics. 

Again, I never want us to be rushed for time. This rural 
46

outreach is very important to us as an Agency. We're 

committed to it. I don't want to leave any comments on the 

table so to speak. I want everybody to have an opportunity 

to comment and ask questions. But there is going to be a 

catch all at the end if somebody wants to add something 

later. If there are no additional comments or questions on 

this topic, we'll move forward with the second topic. 

Okay. With that, to discuss more about 

training and developing a strong work force, I think we've 

had a perfect segue into this discussion. Our training 

manager, Mr. Steve Brewer. 

>> STEVE BREWER: Hi. Good afternoon. A 

strong work force is an essential ingredient to the success 

of any business. The NIGC believes that one of our best 

assets is our employees and recognizes this is also the case 

for tribal gaming operations. With this in mind, the 

Commission has prioritized a strong work force both within 

NIGC and among our tribal regulatory partners as one of its 

four initiatives. In order to foster a strong tribal work 

force, the NIGC seeks to enhance our external training 

program that ensures to continue the meet the needs of the 

demands of the industry. To this end we take this 

opportunity to update you on the direction and commitment 

our training program and to consult with you about how we 

can deliver a better training program to meet the needs of 
47

our tribal regulatory partners. 

The NIGC currently offers three types of 

training events. The regional training conference which 

our trainings is derived from our training catalog and are 

based on the needs of the region where training is occurring; 

the regulating gaming technology which is geared towards 

providing both an understanding of a variety of technologies 

on the casino floor and strategies about how to effectively 

regulate and understand such technology. It should be 

noted the training for 2017 has been suspended to allow time 

to revamp the training to make sure that new technologies 

are included. We anticipate that the new RGT course will 

resume in 2018. 

Finally, site specific trainings are 

trainings requested by a Tribe to meet the individual needs 

of the tribal government, Gaming Commission, regulators, 

and operators. 

The NIGC has developed some assessment 

tools that tribes can request at no cost. The first 

assessment opportunity is the information technology 

vulnerability assessment, or ITVA. The ITVA is performed 

by NIGC IT auditors who complete a vulnerability analysis 

of a facility's IT system to identify potential security 

threats. The second type of assessment is an internal 

control assessment or ICA performed by our audit staff. 
48

This could be a comprehensive review of the tribal gaming 

facility's entire system of internal controls or a specific 

review such as internal audit or (inaudible). Based on the 

findings identified in either a completed ITVA or ICA, the 

training program can help develop targeted training 

specific to that Tribe. 

All NIGC trainings are developed to 

support our tribal customers. The training request process 

is used to shape and deliver training courses and programs 

that are uniquely tailored to each organization based on 

their specific needs and requests. 

The NIGC training program is currently 

undergoing a process to revamp, revise, and update all of 

our training offerings. The NIGC is committed to craft 

trainings that are carefully targeted to meet the evolving 

needs of our regulatory partners and address high priority 

matters critical to safeguarding the unique gaming 

industry. In this manner, the NIGC is in the process of 

revising its instructor-led training courses to provide 

more interactive and hands on experiences. As a commitment 

to the value we put on training, we recently brought in 

additional staff to help develop our training platform, and 

assist with incorporating new methods of training. 

Additionally, we will be utilizing work technology in our 

training offerings. We are currently working toward 
49

offering online and on demand training, and allowing for 

live video conferencing events. 

With the kick off of our current training 

year, the NIGC has included new training classes, including 

a 12-hour comprehensive training for internal audit, a 

12-hour hands on workshop for the development of picks and 

six, a new game with 2.0 training, and new IT 

training -- excuse me -- new IT training relating to auditing 

of the Class II standards (inaudible) 320. Each training 

is designed to be interactive and take a hands on approach 

and again we are in the process of revising our full print 

catalog to reflect these training opportunities. 

In 2016 the NIGC instituted a knowledge 

review of certain audit courses. The intent of the 

knowledge review is to review the effectiveness of our 

training, testings performed at two points. First upon 

completion of the training Class to understand what the 

student learned, and second another test is performed 90 

days later to see if the student retained the information. 

For 2017 the NIGC expanded its knowledge review to include 

all courses the NIGC offers. 

The NIGC is interested in learning from you 

about what our training program can do to meet the needs of 

your operations, what additional type of training for events 

you would like to see, what more can our training program 
50

do to help tribes stay abreast of emerging trends at Indian 

gaming including technological development such as online 

and on demand training, smartphone or tablet app 

development, or other technology. Or if you have any other 

comments or concerns you would like to share, we look forward 

to hearing from you. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Steve. 

>> Rosella Morin. One of the things that 

I first came in (inaudible) first was Commissioner training. 

(Inaudible) out there from the national Indian gaming 

association, but I was wondering why our suggestion that you 

create a Commissioner training that is -- that would help 

Gaming Commission. Because that might be the most 

important thing for understanding the roles and 

responsibilities. And where I'm located, we're the primary 

regulator so we need to make sure that we know what we're 

doing in overseeing the operations of the casino. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that 

question. Steve, do you want to talk about it? 

>> STEVE BREWER: It's a great, great 

point. We have included things like roles and 

responsibility in our RTCs that we do offer in our course 

catalog. But we're never opposed to doing specific 

Commission type training as it relates to a specific site 

training request. Because we already include things like 
51

duties and responsibilities in our trainings. But if you 

ever had a specific course you wanted training on as it 

relates to Commissioners only, we're just a simple click 

away on the website for that. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that 

point. That's another reason I'm always thankful for 

tribal leadership representation at our consultations. 

But we also traditionally have quite a few Commissioners 

attend and provide perspective as well. Always value the 

perspectives such as those. So thank you. 

>> I had a question. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Yes, sir. 

>> Robert Two Bears, Ho Chunk Nation. You 

do the assessments of the tribal requesting, and I noticed 

that other agencies have developed these tools or tablets. 

Are you guys considering creating that template so a tribal 

could actually self-assess versus you guys coming in? Is 

that an option you guys have considered? 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: That's a good 

question. I actually might have Christinia or Shannon 

speak to that briefly because we've had some internal 

dialogue along those lines. Hold on. 

>> Thank you for that question. For the 

ITVA I would probably say no, we wouldn't have templates to 

be able to do that. The software we use is actually 
52

proprietary and we have to be licensed to be able to run those 

assessments. However, for the ICAs we actually already 

have checklists under the training tab I believe on our 

website for every single area of the regs. Those checklists 

actually walk you through what we do for an ICA. It looks 

at how we question stuff and what we're actually measuring. 

That already exists out there. 

>> I could add to that. One of the things 

we're in the process of developing is quick reference books 

for each area of the mix. And what that's going to do is 

that's going to be something that we'll be handing out in 

our trainings that will give you really what the intent of 

the standard was and the recommended testing requirements 

for each standard as it relates to 543. I'm pretty excited 

about that. I think once it's fully been vetted and ready 

to put out it's going to be exactly what you're talking 

about. It's going to be exactly what we need for 

Commissioners and stuff to look at the standard and get the 

understanding of what the methodology was behind it. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I don't know if 

that answers the question sufficiently. But in addition to 

the checklist as tribes work through that, we're hoping to 

answer questions as we go along. The ICA isn't the only 

avenue for assessment. But sometimes it does help to have 

fresh eyes, and eyes from NIGC. When we engage in those ICAs 
53

we're engaging from the technical assistance side of things. 

So we recognize that certain compliance matters do come up 

in those ICAs. But we conduct those in good faith with an 

eye towards achieving compliance together. 

I always try to be honest about those ICAs. 

If there are significant compliance issues we'll work as 

hard as we can to achieve compliance together. If they 

still kind of linger on two, three, four years -- at some 

point they could become compliance issues but that's not how 

we approach those ICAs. We approach it from a technical 

assistance viewpoint. 

>> It does. Thank you. 

>> Good afternoon. Clyde Brady, Vice 

Chairman, Northern Cheyenne Gaming Commission. As the new 

Commissioner, it's my intention to have our dual Commission 

since we're duly appointed and we're on a four-year term to 

attend the new Commissioner trainings. A question might be 

for the regional side. Does the NIGC provide the trainers 

for that region -- does it personalize -- does the trainer 

follow the Commission or is it just as we go to trainings 

is it different trainers to train us on that? And then also, 

a comment on breaking us out to the region. That might be 

your solution to do that so we could have more I guess 

personal attention as tribes out here in Montana and stuff 

like that. But that's something that the consistency -- I 
54

can understand this is an ever evolving living document, 

just like the Constitution. But we'd like to as a 

Commission -- I'd like to be able to stay on top of things 

and be able to serve my Tribe as best to my ability. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Great question. 

I think our deputy chief of staff is helpful. 

>> Specifically to your question about 

specific trainers, for us it would be a resource issue to 

have one or two people be the subject matter experts in 

everything that we train on, and have one or two people in 

every region that can do everything. Steve and his team 

have actually done a fabulous job. We have a lot of subject 

matter experts within the Agency. And for every main 

subject that we do train on we try to have two or three people 

fully up to speed on that information so that when we're 

training here or if we're training in Oklahoma, the 

information is all the same. 

>> The only thing to add to that is I would 

promise you that if you went to one training and got one 

presenter, you're going to get the same quality of presenter 

the next time. That's what we strive for. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that 

perspective. I'm always thankful for having fellow 

regulators involved in these discussions as well, because 

that direct perspective regarding our trainings is very 
55

helpful. 

>> Jenni Wild Cat, Northern Arapaho again. 

I just wanted to advocate to all my training. I'm really 

excited to hear about that just because we're rural Tribes, 

not around larger areas, and don't have that large amount 

of gaming revenue. We are pretty cash strapped. So we have 

a smaller travel budget, training budget. So we have online 

training, it's cost effective for us. We don't have to pay 

for somebody to go spend the night somewhere, travel 

somewhere. 

In addition to that we have a small 

compliance department. We've got two folks. If they go 

away for compliance training there's nobody on the floor. 

Same thing with licensing. So due to our small size that's 

going to greatly benefit us also, for online training. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Excellent. 

Steve? 

>> All I want to say is thank you. I agree. 

I think the benefit will just be huge. I don't want to take 

too much time. I just remember being a compliance officer 

a long time ago and thinking to myself I wish (inaudible). 

Thank you. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Excellent point. 

I know Steve has worked pretty closely with our technology 

division Director, Travis Waldo, and we'll hear a little bit 
56

more from him in a bit. But some of these initiatives mesh 

together. So technology and rural outreach, we want to 

advance our technological aspect so that we can better serve 

rural communities. That's one of many ways different 

functions of the Agency are trying to work together on these 

things. 

>> Hi. My name is Betty Whiskeychan from 

(inaudible) casino. I really like the idea of Gaming 

Commission training. Last year we got all brand new 

Commissioners. Operations -- casino operations 

standpoint, I worked at our property now for over 20 years. 

And casinos depend on visible strong regulation force. And 

then when you don't feel it on your property, it gets 

worrisome because you know how some management can tend to 

just -- there's no balance there. And when there is a 

limited -- I'm finding that when Gaming Commissioners are 

traveling and they're away from the property, they don't 

know how to assert their knowledge when they come onto 

property. And I'm just wondering if -- has there been any 

virtual classroom training, where we can sit together and 

still -- rather than just do online training, actual talking 

to a person, like actually seeing and being engaged with 

somebody from the NIGC. I think that would be real helpful 

to us at home, like when we're at our own properties. Thank 

you. 
57

>> One of the things I'm really excited 

about is we just finalized a contract on basically exactly 

what it is you're talking about. Being able to actually 

host a (inaudible) training event. So we could meet in DC 

and we could send out the training request to all the tribes. 

Whoever signs up, one or two hours, and we can have that 

dialogue without everybody having to travel all over the 

country. We'll just be able to do that from our home station 

in headquarters. So it's coming. I'll just say be a little 

patient because we just finalized the procurement on it. 

We're going to implement it as soon as possible. 

>> I also think that it may also -- it helps 

for NIGC as kind of a neutral -- I don't know how -- neutral 

voice, or -- because at home, you kind of get into a personal 

field I'll say. So you lose your effectiveness as a 

regulator, or as a person in operations. And NIGC as a 

neutral party can just come in with their technical 

expertise, and that kind of stuff to make it more beneficial 

for both sides. Does that make sense? Thanks. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Very much makes 

sense. In this respect, I always make a joke about when we 

meet with fellow regulators. It's like we got to stick 

together as much as we can. We know that regulators don't 

always -- I mean, varying degrees of love and support. But 

the role that they play isn't always immediately recognized. 
58

That role is a strong regulatory environment does allow for 

healthy financial opportunity. But that connection 

between regulation and the bottom line isn't always 

apparent. So we respect the role that we played in 

providing an outside voice to help support that regulatory 

structure. I'm very thankful for the work Steve does also 

in conjunction with Travis to make sure that on the tech side 

of things we're able to provide that voice in the most 

helpful way possible. So the virtual training idea -- I 

mean, we're excited. There's so much we want to do. Part 

of it is getting the right hardware in, getting everything 

in place. I know the team has been working very hard on 

that. But we made a lot of headway in the last couple of 

years. I don't know if anybody wants to add to that, on the 

tech side of things. I don't want to throw anybody under 

the bus. I know how hard you've worked on these issues. 

>> We're very close. It's been a process 

to build hardware and kind of update our infrastructure. We 

also moved offices inside Washington D.C. So we're very, 

very close on getting to the point where we can make these 

offerings to you guys. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: (Inaudible). 

>> That was Travis Waldo. 

>> I'm LaVern Old Elk. If I can make a 

suggestion to our neighboring Tribes. When we have the new 
59

Gaming Commissioners come in, they really didn't have that 

much knowledge on being a Gaming Commissioner. We did fill 

out -- we did request for training from NIGC. It was a 

checklist. And it was -- we filled it out on what 

specifically we wanted training on. And it took a couple 

of months for everything to get organized. But they did 

come to Crow and train us as a whole. And then another thing 

that we did was we're aware when they're going to do a site 

visit. We would -- for example, our assistant, she was in 

the office every day every day so when people came in to get 

a gaming license, she had one on one training with a 

compliance officer and she got her training. That's 

because that's what she needed. I hope that happens. But 

we reached out. 

Another thing that was suggested to us by 

the compliance officer was better website. Everything is 

on there. So you can -- everything is on there. You have 

questions, reaching out to that is very helpful. Just a 

suggestion. (Inaudible). 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much 

for that comment. Because I know Linda and her team as well 

as all the regions work very hard to maintain healthy 

relationships with the regulatory partners. And it's great 

to hear an example of -- I mean, a concrete example of that. 

But thank you for that comment. And just as a matter of 
60

process, this is great. I want us -- this isn't just a 

consultation between NIGC and Indian country. I want us all 

to learn from each other as much as we can. Cross 

discussion, we definitely encourage that. Thank you. 

Thank you. 

Okay. Any other questions, comments, 

concerns on our training topic? Thank you for that 

presentation, Steve. 

Now we'll move on with topic number three, 

this is kind of a matter of process. I know it's a long 

afternoon for folks. After this break -- I mean, after this 

topic, let me just get a sense. Do folks want a short break, 

just to stretch legs, a five-minute break? We could do that 

now. Maybe after this topic we'll work towards a short 

five-minute stretch your leg break and we'll just keep 

plugging along. 

With that we have the Director of finance, 

Ms. Yvonne Lee who is going to give us some additional 

background on this topic. I'll turn it over to Yvonne Lee. 

>> One of our primary initiatives at NIGC 

is to protect against anything that amounts to (inaudible) 

tribes. It's a term for any third party threats to tribal 

assets or operations. Getting close third party 

interference with a Tribe's sole proprietary interests in 

its gaming operations. Many games violations may occur 
61

when a third party vendor or services provider is managing 

some aspect of gaming operations without an approved 

contract, or where a contractor is operating outside of an 

approved management contract. Thus approval of management 

contract at NIGC requires that IGRA as a means of protecting 

the Tribe against gamesmanship. The chair has the 

fiduciary responsibility to try to ensure that they remain 

the primary beneficiary of their gaming operations. The 

(inaudible) process should protect against gamesmanship. 

But the process should also not (inaudible) spirit of 

tribes. With this in mind, the Commission is seeking 

feedback and recommendations on whether changes are needed 

to the management contract and background investigation 

regulations. Specifically we want input on improving the 

efficiency in the management contract review process but 

also continue to protect tribes' sole proprietary interests 

in their gaming activities. 

To provide some context to this 

consultation, I'll briefly summarize the current approval 

process. Then we will open to floor to questions and 

suggestions. 

A management contract is any contract, 

subcontract, or collateral agreement between an Indian 

Tribe and the contractor or between a contractor and the 

subcontractor that provides for the management of all or 
62

part of the gaming operation. Detailed requirements for 

management contracts can be found on our website. To 

commence the review and approval process, submitters must 

submit a management contract and all documents in accordance 

with 25CFR parts 531 and 533 to NIGC. The Chairman must also 

make a determination that the manager is suitable to manage 

the gaming operation. The background investigation 

process is an important component of this submission. 

Background information must be submitted for all persons and 

entities that have a financial interest in or management 

responsibility for the management contract as identified in 

25CFR part 537. 

Once a contract is submitted to the NIGC, 

they are processed and reviewed based on the order received. 

We've distributed three handouts to help you understand our 

review process. The first handout is the process flow 

chart. The second and third handouts are NIGC checklists 

for management contract review and background 

investigations. You can also print the checklist from 

NIGC's website. As you can see on the flow chart which 

illustrates the process flow of management contract review, 

once the submission is received it will be distributed to 

all staff involved to start the review process. We will 

first send out submission letters to inform the parties if 

there are any information and/or documents still missing. 
63

Then the staff in both the division of finance and the office 

of general counsel will conduct a review for their 

respective areas and outline on the flow chart. During the 

review process there will be internal discussions and 

meetings among the NIGC staff to coordinate a review and 

monitor the steps. After the review is completed we will 

send our issues letter to notify the parties if there are 

any issues with the management contract. In addition, the 

NIGC staff will work with the parties to help them understand 

the issues if necessary. 

Please bear in mind that sometimes it might 

take a few rounds to resolve our issues. The length of the 

NIGC review is dependent on several factors which can 

include the number of prior applications received and 

already in the review period. The completeness of each 

submission and responsiveness of the parties and compliance 

with existing laws and regulations, and the complexity of 

the submission and those subject to the investigations. 

Once all issues are cleared and the 

submissions are complete with all necessary documents then 

the Chair has 180 days to approve or disapprove the 

management contract. The NIGC Chair may approve the 

management contract if it meets the schedules of parts 531, 

533, 535, or 537. If the NIGC Chair learns of any actions 

or conditions that violate those standards, or the manager 
64

deliberately or substantially fails to follow the terms of 

the management contract, or tribal gaming ordinance, the 

Chair may disapprove a submitted contract or void the 

contract or require modifications on an approved contract. 

If submitters find the chair's 

determination unsatisfactory they may appeal the decision. 

If a Tribe wants to amend a term of an existing approved 

contract or simply extend the original approved contract 

pursuant to 25CFR535, they must submit an amendment and 

relevant documents including a letter from the tribal 

chairperson and associated resolutions as well as 

background investigation applications. For new 

individuals or entities, background investigations are 

required. Individuals or entities previously found 

suitable also may need to have their background 

investigations updated depending on the length of time since 

their last background investigation. 

We would now like to take this time to hear 

from you. Do you have any questions about the process or 

regulations or any suggestions as to how NIGC can improve 

its efficiency in processing applications and providing 

technical assistance? Thank you. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, 

Yvonne. Always grateful for Director Lee's leadership and 

the work of her team to make the management agreement process 
65

as smooth as possible. Much work still remains to be done. 

But we recognize the impact economically that our management 

agreement process has on tribal nations, and we want -- we're 

always looking at ways to make things more efficient while 

still adhering to the integrity and responsibilities that 

we have. Thank you, Yvonne. Questions and comments on 

management agreements? 

While we're mulling over our questions, 

let me just again say thank you. Another initiative that 

we haven't discussed in great detail, but Yvonne touched on 

it, another initiative of ours is protecting against games 

manship on the backs of tribes. That's kind of a fancy way 

of saying we're going to do whatever we can to fulfill our 

responsibility to make sure that tribes are the primary 

beneficiaries of their operations. So tribes and not 

vendors, tribes and not other third parties, but tribes 

themselves are the beneficiaries of their operations. 

We'll look at doing what we can to mitigate any third party 

threats to assets or operations. And we want to work with 

Indian country to do that. We want to uphold our 

responsibility in that regard. Management agreement 

approvals are fundamental to that. So if we're talking 

about protecting against gamesmanship on the backs of 

tribes, the management agreement approval process is one of 

the important tools that we have as an Agency to support 
66

tribal nations' interests in making sure we have good people 

working in their facilities who have the tribes' best 

interests at heart. And we take that responsibility very 

seriously. And I'm very grateful to Director Lee's 

leadership in that regard. 

No comments, I'll take that as a vote of 

confidence that we're on the right track and we're doing good 

things. Again, we're going to have a catch all section at 

the end. But maybe this is a good time for that stretch your 

leg break. We'll reconvene in about five minutes or so. 

Longer if needed. It's the side conversations that really 

matter too. Last thing I want to do is interrupt that. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. I guess 

we'll go ahead and get started. I think we're doing pretty 

well on time. Not great but we've got plenty of time. It's 

3:22 right now. We'll move forward with our technical 

standards discussion if Director Waldo is ready to go. Mr. 

Travis Waldo, take it away. 

>>TRAVIS WALDO: Good afternoon, 

everyone. National Indian Gaming Commission is 

considering draft language to amend 25CFR547-18 which would 

clarify and add new technical standards for wireless gaming 

systems and communication between mobile communication 

devices and mobile systems. These new draft regulatory 

standards provide clear and specific definitions that have 
67

not been included in the regulations previously. The new 

standards also support security and system integrity for 

mobile gaming operations. This draft language is based on 

input and collaboration with our travel partners. The 

intent of the new draft regulation is to support the growth 

and innovation of mobile gaming systems. 

Portable handheld gaming systems have been 

around for many years and are authorized in many state 

jurisdictions. Handheld gaming devices are electronic 

devices that allow casino patrons to play anywhere within 

the casino or within tribal lands as defined by the Indian 

Gaming Regulatory Act, such as at restaurants, hotels, or 

other amenities. The draft technical standards for mobile 

gaming devices will not authorize Internet gaming. These 

draft technical standards only address handheld mobile 

devices within tribal lands. The draft technical standards 

which can be found on our website are post standards for 

travel review, comment and consultations. We'll now take 

questions. Thank you. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, 

Travis. Just again, in terms of the ongoing nature of our 

dialogue, we're thankful for some of the comments we 

received at the prior consultation about the possibility of 

moving forward with these standards as guidance rather than 

regulation. And so that came from our dialogue and 
68

discussion. We're going to take a strong look at that. But 

we welcome any comments you may have on this topic at this 

time. Or questions. 

>> I have a question. Former electronic 

game ball -- (inaudible). Does that cover mobile handheld 

machines? And all types? 

>>TRAVIS WALDO: We haven't addressed 

(inaudible) but it is for the mobile date devices, handheld 

devices. All. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Great question. 

This is about two-way dialogue. It doesn't all have to be 

formal comments. We're here to answer questions as well. 

>> What are the current regulations on 

Internet gaming? What if I wanted to start (inaudible) at 

our facility? Is that allowable? 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Yeah. Let me 

address that. But anybody else who wants to weigh in, feel 

free. Internet gaming is -- I know a lot of folks talk about 

it. At NIGC we implement IGRA. Our only question is 

whether or not any game is occurring on eligible Indian 

lands. And so that's how we look at any question that comes 

before us. I know there are a number of bills that have been 

floated in Congress to further refine how Internet gaming 

might be regulated. But so far none of them have really 

stuck. And so we've tracked those bills but right now as 
69

things stand our regulatory scope is ensuring that any 

gaming activity on Indian lands complies with IGRA. That's 

kind of where we come from, or where we're coming from on 

that. That said, I would encourage anybody that has 

a -- everything -- there are a lot of proposals out there. 

There are a lot of games that have been shopped around by 

various folks in the industry. And all those games have 

very complicated coding in them. What I mean by that is kind 

of the guts of those games are very different from one 

another. If a nation is considering a certain platform, and 

is concerned about crossover with IGRA requirements, I 

strongly recommend reaching out to our office of general 

counsel at (inaudible) because we'd be happy to kind of work 

with you to look at the specific nature of a given platform 

that somebody might be trying to offer. And we'll provide 

our, you know, assistance the best we can about whether or 

not that is workable under -- at least when it comes to IGRA. 

But there are other laws that apply to Internet gaming in 

terms of UGEA, and we don't -- we're not the gate keepers 

of that law in itself. And so our approach is always looking 

at IGRA and we're happy to work with tribal nations to look 

at specific proposals. I don't mean to be so vague, but let 

me just be honest. There's been some bunk that's been 

floating around, some nonsense that's been floating around 

that hasn't been helpful. And in the past some of those 
70

proposals have been shared with us. Our office of general 

counsel has been very helpful in trying to flag potential 

problems for tribal nations when we see them. But as I said 

before, under our statute, our job is to support the tribal 

economic development. We want to look at all appropriate 

ways, and be helpful to tribes who are looking at all 

appropriate ways to pursue economic development. But we 

also see an important role for us to play in terms of flagging 

nonsense that might be out there. And we've done that 

through OGC in the past. I don't know if you're talking 

about OGC. Heather, do you want to talk a little more about 

your phone lines always being open and who the point of 

contact might be? 

>> HEATHER CORSON: Sure. We're always 

available to provide any sort of assistance. A thing that 

I wanted to add on is that we try -- we don't want to comment 

on the legality of any kind of game other than under IGRA. 

So we try to be very specific and don't add a lot of caveats 

to that. So we encourage a lot of those dialogues to go on 

with your attorneys that you have as well. But we are 

available to talk. We can certainly talk about if we think 

something is Class II or Class III. That's something that's 

(inaudible). In terms of Internet gaming, I think just keep 

in mind that the key thing that determines that is that the 

activity happens on Indian lands. That's important to us. 
71

And what exactly is a gaming activity. Do you think it meets 

(inaudible). 

We think it includes the wager as well as 

the activity itself. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, 

Heather, for that. I know Heather mentioned her an 

affiliation. But I'm especially proud of the work at the 

office of general counsel. She's associate general counsel 

which is basically -- she and the general counsel himself 

oversees all of that office. It's just good I just want to 

recognize her, the fact that she is Crow, and we happen to 

be here in Crow territory. Of course all respect to 

Cheyenne. Anyway, not getting (inaudible). But we're 

just honored. Thank you. Does that help? Thank you. 

>> Jenni Wild Cat, Northern Arapaho. I 

know this is a long technical standard (inaudible) but I 

would like to know (inaudible). 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: You want to weigh 

in on this? 

>> No. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. Again, 

similar to what we discussed with Internet gaming, skill 

based gaming has a little bit of a different relevance to 

the Indian gaming than it does in other regulatory 

discussions. Skill-based may, you know, have 
72

impacts -- quite a few impacts in the commercial gaming world 

that are dependent on how states regulate commercial gaming. 

For us, our starting and ending point is always IGRA. So 

to the extent that a given game may have classification 

aspects to it that we need to look at, we'll work through 

general counsel's office as well as Shannon and Christinia's 

teams. We're happy to take a look at a given game for 

classification purposes, or technical assistance about how 

the game is classified. But in terms of skill-based gaming, 

our -- in terms of the implementation and the IGRA, it hasn't 

had that much relevance to this point because IGRA kind of 

says what it says. I don't know. What I mean by that is 

it talks about definitions of gaming, and definitions of 

lands eligible for gaming. That's where we start. And so 

for us, the question is is it gaming? And so most of these 

questions aren't really relevant to our discussion because 

unless it falls under our -- we have a lot of case law and 

internal administrative record in terms of how we look at 

whether or not something is gaming for our purpose. And 

we're happy to walk through the aspects of the specific game. 

That's why I just want to stay away from the general -- I 

want to stay away from speaking about skill-based games 

generally, because every game is very dependent on where the 

bet is being made, who is making it, and we look at every 

game that's sent to us on a case by case basis, and look at 
73

it in terms of IGRA's classifications. That's how we look 

at things. And that's why I always shy away from kind of 

very general statements about skill-based, or things like 

that. I don't know. It was kind of a murky answer but maybe 

you can clarify. 

>> For clarification I understand you're 

asking about the skill based (inaudible). So the arcade 

type style (inaudible). So if those types of skill based 

gaming are coming on the market, they would actually have 

to meet the actual technical standards that are in 547 on 

how the gaming machine is actually built. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: There you go. 

Thank you, Christinia. (Inaudible). Shannon O'Loughlin 

who is our chief of staff, and Christinia Thomas, our deputy 

chief of staff, they make a dynamic duo because 

Shannon -- number of (inaudible) that impacted by gaming, 

and her own community, definitely has a very, very good view 

of the policy issues involved at NIGC, and she understands 

the technical side enough to help oversee the Agency. 

Christinia at the same time understands the policy side of 

things enough to get everything that's going on, but she also 

comes from a regulator background. How many years? 

>> About 25. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: About 25 years at 

Mille Lacs. So together in terms of overseeing the item at 
74

NIGC, just a great dynamic duo over there. But it is a joy 

to work with smart people. Hasn't rubbed off yet. Thank 

you for that question. 

Any other --

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Inaudible) before 

we go off this topic that (inaudible) talked about. I 

didn't want to display a cautionary (inaudible) talk more 

about this than I know. But I do want to say that in general 

we're talking about this topic of technology development 

that it's important to be from our perspective -- whatever 

as time moves forward and we take into consideration the 

technology (inaudible) it's important (inaudible) that they 

don't force technology and make it cost prohibitive or 

create a competitive disadvantage in Indian country. So 

(inaudible) in terms of the scope or regulations to make sure 

that they don't go beyond requiring how we're developing 

integrity in the industry (inaudible) the technology is 

going to be integrated differently throughout different 

operations. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Any additional 

questions or comments on this topic before we move forward? 

Okay. 

Our next topic, we have again director 

Yvonne Lee to discuss our calendar and fees. Without going 

into too much detail, this is something that I think we're 
75

all excited about at the Commission because it's a small but 

important step that we can make that I think will add to the 

efficiency of our operations. Basically it's going to 

allow us to do our budgeting around the same time that we 

do our (inaudible) which is always very helpful for an 

organization. So with that, Ms. Lee. 

>>YVONNE LEE: The Commission is 

considering amending the language to 25CFR514. Under the

current regulation the Commission announces a preliminary 

fee rate of March first and a final fee rate three months 

later on June first. The proposed regulation will require 

the NIGC to set the fee rate only one time per year to be 

announced on November first. The proposed changes on the 

fee rate publication date will also apply to the fee 

(inaudible) process. These are the proposed 514.2 changes 

of fee rate. 

These are the proposed 514.16 changes of 

fee regulation. By setting and announcing the fee rate once 

a year the Commission will be able to, one, improve the 

efficiency of the fee rate analysis and publication process; 

two, coincide the fee rate announcement with the annual 

release of the gaming revenue and the completion of the 

Commission's budget for the upcoming year; three, reduce the 

marginal variable for fee calculations as the rate would 

only be set once within a fiscal year; four, mitigate any 
76

confusion that may arise from changing the fee rate twice 

a year. In addition, a majority of tribes have fiscal years 

ending either on September 30th or December 31st. Tribe 

submissions of audited financial standards are required 120 

days after the end of their fiscal year. Thus when we first 

used these financial statements to set the preliminary fee 

rates our analysis is limited to a fractional portion of the 

financial audit's submissions. And we must reanalyze again 

after additional submissions are received at the end of 

April. The proposed changes will allow the analysis to take 

place once a year after the Commission has received all 

annual audited financial statements. In addition, the fee 

rate calculation will more accurately reflect the 

Commission's required operation funding which will become 

available by September 30th each year. 

The Commission is seeking comments on 

proposed changes to the time period these fee rates are 

published. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, 

Yvonne. So again, we see this as, you know, kind of a change 

but it will have impact on when tribal nations submit their 

fees, but it will I think have a lot of benefit to our ability 

as an Agency to provide important services in a sensible way 

because we'll be able to tie our budgeting with our planning. 

But we welcome any comments, questions. 
77

We are excited about it. It's small but 

important. 

With that we'll move on to our final topic. 

And that is draft guidance -- draft nonbinding voluntary 

guidance on Class III minimum internal control standards. 

For that we have deputy chief of staff Christinia Thomas. 

>> CHRISTINIA THOMAS: Thank you. As a 

result of the 2015-2016 consultations, the Commission will 

issue nonbinding Class III mixed guidance. We have issued 

a draft of that guidance and are asking for your feedback 

before we finalize and publish. Although a guidance 

document does not require a formal notice and comment 

process, the Commission recognizes the value of tribal and 

industry input and intends to thoroughly consider all 

comments we receive from you to inform this guidance. The 

draft's 64-page guidance document is available for you 

today and it's also on our website for review. The NIGC is 

very fortunate to have so many tribal gaming subject matter 

experts working for the Agency who are well versed in 

operational procedures and the risks associated with them. 

They have been diligently working to develop this draft. 

You'll notice that the draft follows the 

formatting and style of the current part 543 Class II mix. 

We hope that it assists those tribes with mixed facilities 

to develop a comprehensive set of controls while still 
78

enabling tribes themselves to establish standards that best 

meet their needs. Exclusively Class III areas such as 

gaming machines and table games have been updated after 

extensive review of other jurisdictions, incorporating

tribal regulatory and current industry standards. 

Additionally those controls in part 543 that require 

(inaudible) analysis and approval such as variances and 

supervision controls are carried over into the Class III 

(inaudible). We would also like to consult with you on our 

proposed decision to suspend the existing 542 regulations. 

Suspension of the regulations leaves the existing text in 

the code of federal regulations but adds a note they are not 

enforceable and refers the reader to the guidance document. 

We believe that this solution accomplishes the goals of 

keeping the language accessible for those who need it. 

Again, the guidance is being done to provide voluntary, 

nonbinding updated regulatory controls for Class III gaming 

areas. Because it will be guidance instead of regulations, 

we will be able to be much quicker at adapting to the changes 

in the industry and we are seeking feedback on the draft. 

And we are also seeking feedback on the intent to suspend 

the existing 542 regulations. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, 

Christinia. Again, to restate it, our proposed action here 

is in response to -- I'm sorry -- is in response to requests 
79

from Indian country. But the tricky part is the details. 

We always welcome comments. 

>> Robert Two Bears, Ho Chunk Nation. A 

question that -- has the NIGC done an assessment of the 

current gaming compacts that tribes have with the states? 

I'm only asking this because in our gaming compact, it says 

that we will follow Class III mix. So I know you're 

proposing this rule, but (inaudible) the impact on our Tribe 

and our agreement with the state. Have you guys done an 

assessment on the current gaming compacts throughout? 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: It's been the 

subject of much discussion internally. But who best to 

speak to that? 

>> Yes, we have. We are very aware that 

there's a lot of compacts out there in a lot of different 

states. But actually incorporate the current 542 

regulations that were last updated in 2006, where they 

specifically refer to 542 as the requirement that the tribes 

have to follow those controls. So the reason we landed on 

suspending the regulation is because that way it's not being 

actually removed from the code of federal regulations. 

It's just saying we can't enforce them. So they'll actually 

stay on the books. Tribes can still use them if they choose 

to. But the guidance that we've drafted actually updates 

those controls. 
80

>> Robert Two Bears, Ho Chunk Nation. So 

then as far as audits coming forward after the suspension, 

are you still going to use the standard or no? 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: We're open to 

comments. I think current thinking is for mixed 

facilities,, you know, obviously all the Class II standards 

will apply. The guidance that we will put out, we 

don't -- pursuant to the Colorado River Indian Tribe's 

decision, we don't enforce pure Class III standards to begin 

with. So I believe we'd operate under the current framework 

that we use for mixed facilities. We do rely on the Class 

II standards. And we do apply those for the audits. In 

terms of best practices, there may be -- before I get into 

the audits too much, because we haven't started doing this 

yet in terms of the guidance, we can talk about advisory, 

technical assistance regarding the guidance on our audits 

as well. But do you want to speak to the point? 

>> I want to point out (inaudible) agreed 

upon procedure audits. The audits are done every year. 

However, the requirement is only on Class II. So tribes 

(inaudible) you can continue to have your (inaudible) 

included with your Class III gaming but we don't actually 

require those be submitted to us. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: So these are being 

issued to be helpful to the nations that still look to the 
81

mix. So there's a need to update it. But we're also very, 

very aware of the limitations on us in terms of actually 

issuing a Class III mix, or let alone enforcing Class III 

mix. 

>> Thank you. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that 

question. Additional questions or comments on this? We 

also are mindful that the compacts from state to state 

differ. And we're trying to take the avenue of providing 

as much clarity to the process without over stepping our 

authority in any way, or creating new complications that we 

don't foresee. That's why we're thankful of the comments 

we've received to date from Indian country and we're mindful 

of those comments as we try to craft this plan. 

With that, any other additional questions 

or comments on this topic before we leave you? With that, 

the whole point is dialogue. So I don't want us to be locked 

into this topic or that topic. Are there any questions, 

comments that came up maybe during the break or things that 

you want to discuss or things that you may be thinking may 

be helpful to get on the record for folks who couldn't be 

here today? Okay. Well, as I always say, there's no shame 

in finishing early. There's no crime in finishing early. 

Yes, sir. 

>> I have a question as far as fall out all 
82

across the nations and do you plan to actually put that on 

the website so that the rest of the tribes throughout or 

whoever wants to review the questions that were posed that 

went unanswered (inaudible)? 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for 

that. Absolutely, yes. I don't know if anybody wants to 

talk about the process. But the transcripts will go up. 

The comments will be on our website. As well as one of the 

commitments we made early on a few years ago was that, you 

know, consultations never are a pretense for us. We want 

to move forward with deliverables. We have made a 

commitment that we'll do our level best to move forward with 

the deliverables at each stage. And we've been working hard 

to honor that commitment. And so consultation topics from 

last year we're very excited to be close to making some 

decent announcements about deliverables on those topics. 

But in addition to putting the transcripts and the comments 

on our website, we're going to work diligently to move 

forward with the next steps on specific products from each 

of these. Keep in mind this Class III guidance discussion 

is a product of consultation discussions from last year. 

And that's how we got the draft, what we have today. So to 

answer the question, yes, absolutely. We want transparency 

and open dialogue. I don't know if anyone wants to add to 

that. 
83

Thank you for that. Any additional 

questions, comments, before I turn it over to my fellow 

Commissioners for closing? 

With that, I'll turn it over to my fellow 

Commissioners, and we'll close. 

>> Thank you. I'll be brief. I just want

to thank everyone again for taking the time to be part of 

this process. You said at the outset too about the 

importance of the consultation and acknowledge if there was 

some confusion and recommit to reaching out to other 

leadership who couldn't be here for this coordination. 

That's part of the immediate follow up in terms of process. 

In terms of dialogue, and feedback, I hope that we can 

continue to keep the conversation going for the remainder 

of the consultation session. I've heard really helpful 

things in terms of I'm able to (inaudible) on the Commission. 

A need for our technology, not necessarily to get in the way 

of innovation that goes on, and the regulations to support 

our development and for us to continue to work together. 

(Inaudible) thank you for your time here, and this 

conversation we're having. (Inaudible). 

>> I want to be brief. I know everyone is 

probably anxious to get back on the road. But I also wanted 

to remind ourselves that the bigger issues -- the bigger 

concepts that we are fulfilling here I think we heard a lot 
84

on this trip, and we've seen a lot on this trip about elder 

centers, and programs for youth, different kinds of tribal 

activities to support. That's why we try to at least keep 

in mind the big picture of why we're doing this, tribal 

leaders and regulators. I just want to thank you all for 

your comments and for being here with us. 

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Vice 

Chair. I just want to applaud and echo that point. One 

person I haven't singled out I meant to earlier, you saw the 

NIGC person taking photographs. That's Kim Myers, our new 

Public Affairs Director. She's a member of the Cherokee 

nation. She's playing an important role with those 

photographs. Her office compiles impact stories that draws 

that connection between gaming and real lives on the ground. 

So that big picture story is something that we're honored 

to talk about in the circles that we walk in. And we're very 

thankful for the work that Indian country has done to tell 

that story as strongly as has been told. But it's one of 

those things that you can never tell it enough. And I just 

want to point out our Public Affairs Director, if you have 

any information that you think would be helpful in providing 

that big picture and background, please reach out to Kim and 

her team. 

With that, just to echo my fellow 

Commissioners' points, thank you so very much for taking the 
85

time to be here. I know that demands on your schedules are 

many. But dialogue is critical to not just what we do at 

NIGC, but the health of this important economic development 

avenue as a whole. And so thank you so very much for being 

here. Safe travels to you. And many thanks again for your 

home lands. I'm sorry, sir. There's a presentation from 

Crow Tribe. 

>> Not too sure, but there's a lot of tribes 

here. I want to share with you something for you to wear. 

My grandfather at one time put it on. My grandfather. So 

that you won't lose his way, this young man came to the U.S. 

government, to our country, and I just want to show my 

appreciation. You won't get lost if you put your GPS in 

there. One time my grandfather had too many horses, and 

there was a gathering, and the next valley, they said bring 

some horses, we'll give some horses away. They said all 

right. They took a trail of horses. When he came back, 

they gave him more than he gave away. I want to share to 

the other tribes, what we gave you, we'll have more. Thank 

you for coming. 

(Applause).

>> CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: On behalf of the 

Agency and all of us, from the heart (inaudible) truly 

honored to be here today. Thank you. 

(Applause).
86

With that we'll close. 
87

C E R T I F I C A T E

I, LAUREN SCHECHTER, do hereby certify 

that the foregoing is a true and accurate transcript of a 

tape recording in this matter.

I do further certify that I am neither of 

counsel nor attorney for any party in this action and that 

I am not interested in the event nor outcome of this 

litigation.

 _____________________________________________

 Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of

 New Jersey