1

2

3

4

5 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

6 NRRA CONSULTATION

7 GLOBAL GAMING EXPO

8

9 Held on

10 October 6, 2011

11 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.

12 at

13 The Venetian Hotel & Casino

14 Las Vegas, Nevada

15

16

17

18

19

20

21 Reported by: Kimberly A. Farkas, RPR, CRR

22

23

24

25 Job No. NJ343907

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 TRACIE STEVENS: I'd like to take this

3 opportunity to have the representatives that are

4 here on behalf of their tribes introduce themselves

5 before the commission and staff introduce

6 themselves before we introduce ourselves. If we

7 could start over here. If you could state your

8 name and the tribe you're with.

9 WALTER HAMILTON: My name is Walter

10 Hamilton, Cheyenne and Arapaho tribe. I'm the

11 Chair.

12 CHEEVERS HEAP OF BIRDS: Cheevers, Heap

13 of Birds, gaming commissioner, Cheyenne and Arapaho

14 tribe.

15 PATRICK LAWSON: My name is Pat Lawson,

16 chairman Northern Arapaho Gaming Agency.

17 BRAD SIMMONS: Brad Simmons, Nottawaseppi

18 Huron Gaming Commission, chairman of the gaming

19 commission.

20 JUSTIN QUISQUIS: Justin QuisQuis,

21 chairman San Pasqual Gaming Commission.

22 QUEENETTE PETTIFORD: Queenette

23 Pettiford, chairman of the Sycuan Gaming

24 Commission.

25 TRACIE STEVENS: I'm going to have

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1 someone grab this microphone because I'd like to

2 see who is in the audience as well.

3 BRIAN McCLATCHEY: Brian McClatchey

4 (inaudible).

5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Inaudible).

6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Inaudible).

7 TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you. That's

8 everyone. I'd like to take this opportunity to

9 point out the commission staff that we have here.

10 When you all came in and registered out in the

11 hallway, you did so with the executive secretary of

12 the commission. And I want to give her a special

13 thanks because she does quite a bit in order for

14 these meetings to take place in setting up. She's

15 conducting an orchestra when we come out to do

16 these meetings and I just want to raise my hand to

17 her because she's done a very good job. If you all

18 get an opportunity to say hello and thank her, that

19 would be great.

20 Also, way in the back is Dawn Pool.

21 She's our deputy chief of staff. Over here is

22 Melissa, she's a staff attorney from headquarters

23 in DC. Right over here is Larry Roberts, our

24 general counsel; chief of staff Paxton Meyer. Over

25 here is Lael Echo-Hawk, she's the counselor to the

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1 chair. Next to me is associate commissioner Daniel

2 Little. My name is Tracie Stevens, and I am the

3 chairwoman of the National Indian Gaming

4 Commission.

5 So welcome, everyone. I appreciate the

6 time that everyone is taking to attend this. I

7 know there were a number of other activities taking

8 place here. One of the things that we've been

9 trying to do is piggyback our consultations with

10 events that we know that tribal leaders,

11 regulators, operators, those in the Indian gaming

12 industry that has interest in what we're doing we

13 know they're going to be attending. That way we

14 can consolidate our resources and try to capture as

15 many people as we can. So I appreciate everyone

16 taking the time this morning. It could be a long

17 week so I thank you all for attending.

18 This is consultation Number 15 on a

19 number of regulations. I think I counted a total

20 of about 21 since we began, either current

21 regulations or potential regulations. When we

22 started in April, we started in May technically,

23 but we announced in April after talking with tribes

24 about regulatory priorities, which regulations we

25 needed to. This is consultation Number 15 since

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1 May going forward on a number of substantive issues

2 with tribes. That's on our agenda here today, the

3 issue that we're talking about.

4 We have time in here, and we built this

5 in specifically knowing that tribal leaders

6 especially because you're tasked with many more

7 issues besides the ones that we'll be talking about

8 today, with open statement opportunities. So

9 you'll see that on the agenda throughout. And

10 we're following some order here in terms of when

11 we're going to speak about certain issues, but that

12 doesn't preclude anyone from talking, you know,

13 based on their time and their ability to stay in

14 this meeting or have a conflict with their schedule

15 to talk about issues ahead of the agenda if you

16 need to leave early. So you'll see that on there.

17 After I'm done speaking there's an

18 opportunity for those who have to leave early to

19 make opening statements. Many tribes come with

20 prepared statements or have questions. So that

21 will happen right after I'm done speaking. Then

22 we'll go through the groups, as indicated on your

23 agenda.

24 Hopefully everybody got a packet. And

25 that's the order in which we'll be following.

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1 We'll be reviewing today's regulations that are the

2 subject of this meeting.

3 I will remind you, over here next to

4 Melissa is our transcriptionist. These are all

5 recorded. What I'm finding right now is I'm having

6 to put the microphone very close to my mouth so

7 that she can hear me. And for those of you who

8 make statements, you may see us encouraging you to

9 speak up. And this is for the sake of the

10 transcriptionist so she can accurately record

11 what's being said today.

12 All of these meetings have been

13 transcribed and all of them are posted on our

14 website. So speaking with a clear, loud voice is

15 helpful, and we may remind you. If you could speak

16 up, that would be very helpful.

17 So at this time I'm going to turn over

18 the microphone to Lael. Sorry. I just said -- I

19 want to take the time right now to open the floor

20 to anybody who has statements or questions or who

21 may need to leave early, earlier than -- if there's

22 issues ahead of us on the agenda and you can't

23 wait, we'll open the floor now for those who have

24 questions or statements.

25 Yes. Right over here.

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1 PATRICK LAWSON: My name is Pat Lawson

2 with the Northern Arapaho tribe. One of the

3 concerns I have is fingerprinting of our key

4 employees. I'd like to make a request that we are

5 able to fingerprint all employees, not just key

6 employees. I'd also like to make a request to

7 fingerprint anybody that comes on our site.

8 I know you guys have an agreement with

9 the FBI for fingerprinting. It would make it more

10 secure for our casino to fingerprint everybody.

11 That was basically what I came down to talk about.

12 Thank you.

13 TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you, Mr. Lawson.

14 We've actually heard that expressed to us over the

15 previous 14 consultations, and I think even prior

16 to that during the notice of inquiry and probably

17 more likely it's been brought up even before this

18 commission was seated. I might turn it over to

19 Lael for just a quick response, what our response

20 has been with regard to whether we can do that or

21 not and what doing that might do with our agreement

22 with the FBI, and if there's any obstacles that we

23 may have having others besides key employees and

24 primary management officials fingerprinted.

25 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: This won't be much of an

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1 answer, but Larry Roberts, our general counsel's

2 office, has been working with the FBI on our

3 agreement and understanding that we have with them.

4 We've heard that request a lot. And I know that

5 some tribes include in their ordinance who will be

6 fingerprinted and/or who should be fingerprinted.

7 So far we've taken the position if your ordinance

8 says that those people need to be fingerprinted,

9 then we try to accommodate you if we can. But we

10 still have a relationship with the FBI that we're

11 talking to them and making sure that that's

12 something that we can actually do.

13 Because it has been a concern, and I know

14 that for tribes that utilize our fingerprinting

15 services, it's something that they like to have

16 access to. So we are working on it. If that's

17 something that your tribe wants to do, it should be

18 in your ordinance or regulations so that when you

19 send them in, we have that listed already.

20 TRACIE STEVENS: Are there others that

21 have questions or opening statements before we move

22 on to the next order of business on the agenda? If

23 not, then I'll again turn the microphone over to

24 Lael. She's going to go through the slides that we

25 have here. In your packet, there is a PowerPoint.

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1 If you want to just read along as you go. She'll

2 go through those regulations on Group One as

3 outlined in the agenda.

4 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: Good morning. I

5 recognize some of you, so I apologize if it's

6 redundant, but thank you all for coming. We've got

7 a couple minor changes to the PowerPoint. But this

8 is Tribal Consultation. Tribal Consultation

9 meetings: Only tribes and their designees can

10 attend or participate in these meetings and they

11 are not open to the public. This is not a public

12 meeting. This is Tribal Consultation.

13 This consultation is the practical actual

14 executive order 13.1775. Particularly what we've

15 been doing for the past 14 meetings has been to

16 talk with tribal governments about whether or not

17 we need to establish standards, whether or not

18 rules need to be made and in sort of what way we

19 need to revise our regulatory framework.

20 When we came in and we started looking at

21 the regulations and the QFRs that guide what the

22 agency does and how tribes regulate their

23 facilities, we found a number of regulations, and

24 we divided them up into regulatory groups so that

25 they're a little more manageable. We numbered them

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1 Groups 1 through 5. Those with numbers do not

2 indicate priority.

3 As we looked at what the regulations

4 were, we looked at subject matter, we looked at the

5 comments that we received from the notice of

6 inquiry, and sort of estimated the amount of time

7 and resources it would take to do each particular

8 regulation, to review it and potentially revise it.

9 So that those five groups, we'll be going over them

10 today.

11 We have three phases that we set out.

12 And for the past 14 meetings we've been in the

13 preliminary drafting phase. We have had a number

14 of preliminary drafts that have been published.

15 I am very, very happy to say that right now we have

16 four notices, two of proposed rules, one notice of

17 appeal, and one just informing the tribes that

18 we're not taking action on particular rules. So

19 we're moving into the second phase here beginning

20 this week and moving forward.

21 And then the final phase will be a final

22 rule if those proposed rules, they need to go into

23 final, then that will be the third and final phase

24 for each rule.

25 The preliminary discussion drafts, you do

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1 have those in your packet. They are initial draft

2 only. We're taking and listening to your comments

3 and trying to define those so as we go forward into

4 a proposed rule we consider all the comments and

5 address them.

6 All these consultations are transcribed

7 so we do need you to speak clearly into the

8 microphone, state your name and what tribe you're

9 with. And then all of these transcripts as well as

10 any written comments that we receive, they're all

11 posted on the website. If you have trouble finding

12 those, shoot us an email. We'll help you access

13 those.

14 The Commission is committed to making

15 sure that every comment is reviewed and considered.

16 I know they do review these comments. Sometimes

17 it's a lot of work, but it is done.

18 Any proposed or final rule will include a

19 summary of those comments. You can always access

20 those on the website as well. And the Commission

21 is committed to a clear and transparent process.

22 The agenda for the consultation is here.

23 I do want to make a point of clarification and that

24 is that Group 3 that covers class II and class III

25 minimum internal control standards and the

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1 technical standards for class II, we don't have

2 them on our agenda. If you feel you'd like to

3 speak to those issues, that's fine. We don't have

4 them on our agenda.

5 The Commission has created a Tribal

6 Advisory Committee, and we're going to set out a

7 series of six meetings to talk about those

8 particular issues. The Federal Advisory Committee

9 has been selected and a press release will be sent

10 out today, so if you're interested in that and who

11 was selected for that committee, pay attention to

12 our website or any other media sources you have

13 access to. We're going to go through these

14 throughout the day.

15 This morning we're going to start with

16 Group 1. Group 1 starts with Part 514; Part 523,

17 which was a resolution of both review and approval

18 of existing ordinances or resolutions; Part 559,

19 facility license notifications, renewals and

20 submissions.

21 So right now we have a notice of proposed

22 rule. It is at the federal register for Part 514.

23 And this notice was sent. So this Part 514, the

24 notice of proposed rule will be available on the

25 federal register tomorrow and it will be published

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1 officially on Tuesday. So that is our first notice

2 of proposed rule. I'm very excited about this.

3 You're probably not as excited about it as I am,

4 but I am ecstatic right now.

5 So what does it do? We sent out a

6 preliminary draft at the beginning of, I think it

7 was in June, and we had a lot of consultation. We

8 had lots of comments. And we've done a couple of

9 things in the notice of proposed rule. We changed

10 the fee calculation to be based on a gaming

11 operation's fiscal year rather than the calendar

12 year. We moved the fee rate application date from

13 February to March. And this is so the Commission

14 has more time to review the statements that come in

15 and they get more accurate preliminary rate.

16 We've done things like removed the word

17 "amortization" and other terms that were not

18 reflective of actual practice or they weren't

19 industry standard language. So we tried to make

20 this very consistent with what industry standard

21 language is.

22 We've moved back to quarterly payments.

23 This is actually the requirement of the Act. And

24 even though the NIGC moved to quarterly statements

25 a couple years ago, when we were reviewing the

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1 regulation and looking at the requirements of the

2 statute, we realized that it said quarterly

3 payments, so we're going back to quarterly

4 payments.

5 We've built in some notification periods

6 so if the gaming operation changes its fiscal year.

7 We've also added a new section. And this

8 was something that we received one negative comment

9 on this. We set up a system for when a tribe

10 submits their fees late. Instead of receiving a

11 notice of violation, which has happened. In 2009

12 there were a number of notice of violations sent

13 out to tribes for submitting their fee payments

14 late. We heard over and over again that this was

15 very punitive and sort of the punishment didn't fit

16 the crime.

17 So we took a look at this and we set up

18 the system so that if a payment is late, anywhere

19 from 1 to 90 days late, there's a graduated

20 percentage rate that the tribe would pay as sort of

21 a penalty type of a fee. The Commission has set

22 that rate at 10 percent for the first 30 days, 15

23 percent for 60 days late, and then 20 percent if

24 it's over 60 to 90 days late.

25 You can look at the regulation. The

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1 current draft just has blanks. We went back and

2 looked at some regulations in other agencies. We

3 looked at other penalties, sort of percentage fees,

4 and this is what the Commission came up with. And

5 it's going to be in the notice of proposed rule

6 that you'll see tomorrow and then on Tuesday.

7 We provided appeals of those late

8 assessments. We included the language in that

9 section of the regulation. And then we also noted

10 that the failure to pay an annual fee, which is

11 paying the annual fee 90 or more days late, could

12 result in notice of violation.

13 And then the last section, and it's a

14 section we added to 514, we formalized in

15 regulation fingerprint processing fees. We talked

16 about how we collected fees, what that looks like.

17 You can see that in the proposed draft that you

18 have in your packet. And then we noted that we

19 published the fee amount bi-annually so that we can

20 keep up. If we get charged a different rate, we'll

21 publish that so tribes can know what the rate

22 actually is.

23 Part 523 we've been over and over again.

24 This one was sent to the Federal Register as well

25 and notice of proposed rule making that repeals

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1 this part, anticipate that will be published within

2 the next week as well.

3 Part 559, which is the facility license

4 regulation, we've been working on this internally

5 and we sent the draft out to tribes, I think it was

6 in June, as well. And we tried to create processes

7 that can ensure that a tribe provide us the

8 information that we need and it's not overly

9 burdensome and it's not regulated -- we're not

10 doing things that perhaps other agencies need to be

11 doing.

12 The draft had added a process for how a

13 tribe can -- currently what happens in the

14 regulation is if someone sends in a facility

15 license, you're supposed to send it in 120 days

16 before the facility opens. We take a look at that

17 and we review the information in there, just verify

18 that internally we would look at it and make sure

19 that the tribe is actually operating the facility

20 on Indian land eligible for gaming.

21 That process, we received a number of

22 comments about it. We're trying to be responsive.

23 So we tweaked it a little bit. It's not in your

24 packet.

25 We've gone to a process where a tribe can

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1 request an expedited review from the Chair. The

2 Chair can respond then within 30 days and the tribe

3 can request written confirmation from the Chair.

4 We received a number of comments that 120

5 days is too long and it's sort of arbitrary. If a

6 tribe wants to open a facility, then why do they

7 have to provide a notice to the NIGC 120 days

8 before the opening of the facility, and is there a

9 way that we can make that move faster.

10 So we tried to build a process where it

11 can happen a little bit faster if they have all the

12 information and it's clear where the land is

13 located -- a number of factors.

14 From the facility license regulation we

15 removed the renewal requirement. Currently the

16 regulation is a tribe is required to renew their

17 facility license every 3 years. And we removed

18 that. Those newly issued or renewed facility

19 licenses, if a tribe decides they want to renew

20 their facility license, that's up to you. But if

21 you do do that, then that needs to be sent to the

22 agency within 30 days.

23 Instead of requiring a bunch of documents

24 and a list of -- in the current regulation there's

25 a list of documents and information that needs to

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1 be sent to the NIGC about how they're handling

2 their public safety issues. We removed that list

3 and just added a requirement that a tribe submit an

4 application with an assertion made that the

5 facility and operation is conducted in a manner

6 which adequately protects the environment, public

7 health and safety.

8 That's language straight out from the

9 Act.

10 We asked tribes to send notice to the

11 NIGC within 30 days from when the license is

12 terminated or expires or if the facility closes for

13 more than than 180 days or reopens.

14 Some tribes close temporarily all the

15 time, remodeling, those kind of things. Tribes

16 said over and over again, that's burdensome. Why

17 do you need to know that. We're just replacing the

18 carpet. Why do we need to send you a notice.

19 The current proposed draft is if the

20 facility is going to be closed more than 180 days,

21 then you let us know. Additionally, if the

22 facility is closed seasonally, we have lots of

23 tribes that operate on a seasonal basis, and if it

24 is just a seasonal closure, the rule now doesn't

25 require notice for that.

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1 So that regulation we are working on it.

2 We have to work with other agencies on that one as

3 well so it's taking a little bit longer perhaps to

4 get out, but I'm hopeful that we'll see something

5 out by the end of the month.

6 And then finally the last potential

7 regulation in this ruling is the buy Indian

8 regulation. We asked tribes if this was something

9 they would like to see NIGC do. To be clear, this

10 is something that tells the agency what to do.

11 This is not the agency telling a tribe what to do.

12 This would be a policy or regulation that tells the

13 agency when purchasing goods or services that they

14 buy Indian.

15 We've heard lots of support for this.

16 Working with the Department of the Interior and

17 looking at the federal acquisition regulations and

18 trying to figure out how we can make this work

19 within the agency.

20 If there is any tribal leader that wants

21 to make an opening statement right now, now would

22 be the time also.

23 PATRICK LAWSON: With the facility

24 licensing, what are you doing with a name change?

25 Just change the name? Is there a timeline for

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1 notification? Also, expiration dates on each game

2 licensing, do we have to notify you every 30 days

3 when we renew our gaming license or can we just

4 send you a copy of it?

5 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: If you renew the

6 license, yes, we are requesting that you send a

7 notification to the agency -- the regulation

8 requires you to send it in within 30 days after you

9 renew it. I know that a lot of tribes changed

10 their ordinances to comply with this regulation

11 when it came out years ago and they may have now

12 renewal requirements where they didn't before.

13 That's up to you. A tribe can decide whether or

14 not they want to renew it. There is no requirement

15 that you do. But if you do renew it, then send it

16 to the NIGC within 30 days.

17 We haven't spoken specifically about the

18 name issue. I think we're less concerned about the

19 name of the facility. It's not mentioned in the

20 regulation. We just talk about the legal

21 description of the land. We want to make sure that

22 we have jurisdiction; it's actually land eligible

23 to be gamed on.

24 I can't remember off the top of my head,

25 but I don't think the regulation says that you have

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1 to send in a name. We just need to be aware of

2 where it's located and the legal description. I

3 think if you change the name, it might be helpful.

4 Our enforcement guys are on the ground. They talk

5 to you. It does say, the name, the address of the

6 property. But we haven't talked about it, so I

7 have to go back and check. But if you change the

8 name, I think that's less important than the

9 location is really what we're interested in.

10 It's good to be notified. And I know our

11 enforcement on the ground, they're working with

12 tribes all the time. That might be a good way to

13 communicate that. We'll talk about that and try to

14 clarify that for tribes.

15 TRACIE STEVENS: Others? Yes. Let's

16 move the microphone. Just pull it out of the

17 stand.

18 NATHAN SMALL: Good morning. My name is

19 Nathan Small, tribal chairman Shoshone-Bannock.

20 If we have a meeting facilitated within

21 the boundaries, is there any regulation if it's on

22 fee land? Does it have to be on trust land or

23 would fee land be? The application is still being

24 considered to put it back in the trust.

25 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: The Act says Indian land

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1 eligible for gaming. So based on what the land --

2 we do a separate analysis. We do an analysis on

3 whether or not the land is eligible for gaming, not

4 whether it's trust land. There are different

5 requirements in the Act.

6 TRACIE STEVENS: Is this specific just to

7 your tribe? Are we talking about -- or is this

8 about what we proposed in the regulation or both.

9 NATHAN SMALL: I haven't seen it really

10 addressed. There's been a lot of talk about

11 off-reservation gaming be in a trust before you can

12 open a gaming facility. I'm just curious about the

13 land within the boundaries of the reservation,

14 purchased by the tribe.

15 TRACIE STEVENS: It contains the

16 definition of what is eligible land that gaming can

17 be on by tribes. Generally, we're not talking

18 about tribal specific. Your parcel of land that

19 you're talking about, certainly happy to have Larry

20 talk about what the Act says about that and how

21 we've basically incorporated that into our facility

22 licensing. But if it's specific to your tribe or

23 your application right now, we'd rather probably

24 talk to you on the side about that if it's an issue

25 for your tribe right now. The current regulation

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1 might not apply to your situation right now and we

2 can talk to you about that at a break.

3 NATHAN SMALL: Okay. Thanks.

4 TRACIE STEVENS: Justin, did you just

5 raise your hand? Are there other tribal leader

6 comments?

7 JESS GREEN: My comment relates to 559.6.

8 559.6 says, A chair requests any land or

9 environmental public health and safety

10 documentation regarding any gaming place, facility

11 or location where gaming will occur.

12 Again, a request is not a requirement.

13 So if the answer to that question is yes and you

14 didn't make the request, it doesn't address at all

15 whether or not the tribes have to respond. The

16 response language that you put in regard to the

17 question goes much farther than answering the

18 question. It says, A tribe shall provide -- last

19 time I read 2706 it said you have the right to come

20 and see and copy. It didn't say you had the right

21 to command us to appear. It also did not say that

22 you had the right to command us to appear for

23 everything. The two lines that you have say, A

24 tribe shall provide Indian lands or environmental

25 public health and safety documentation that the

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1 chair may in his or her discretion request.

2 There needs to be some limitation to what

3 you can request because the tribe may not have

4 that. And your sentence is not limited to the

5 restrictions that are in your question.

6 In other words, your question says "any

7 request." The answer would be, yes, you've

8 requested it. Your response says, yes, the tribe

9 must provide. Then it says the tribe must provide

10 everything you've asked for. If we don't have it,

11 we can't give it to you. Your base law says you

12 can come and see and inspect and copy. It doesn't

13 say you can command we go fetch and deliver.

14 I take great umbrage to the fact that

15 you're opening the door to that chairman's request

16 that could create a tremendous amount of documents.

17 That's not within the Act. You don't get to make

18 us create stuff.

19 Again, I salute you; the rest of these

20 reg look real good. This is the only one that

21 gives me that kind of heartburn. Because the

22 question says, do you have the ability to request

23 the information. And the response says you have

24 the ability to make us jump through all kinds of

25 hoops. And I would like to see it reworded a

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1 little bit more.

2 TRACIE STEVENS: Jess, do you have some

3 suggested language?

4 JESS GREEN: No, I don't. The question

5 and the response are just miles apart. I think

6 someone just needs to start.

7 TRACIE STEVENS: From what I can tell,

8 this is an existing reg right now, this language.

9 JESS GREEN: I understand this has been

10 the previous position. You can command everything

11 you want of us and we're supposed to create it.

12 It's also been the topic of substantial controversy

13 because 2706 doesn't tell you you can summon this

14 stuff.

15 You couldn't even get this with a

16 subpoena. I could object to a subpoena with this

17 kind of language in it. Saying, I don't possess it

18 and you can't command me to create it in a court of

19 law. Your authority is come and see and copy. And

20 you're changing that to, create for me if I ask you

21 for it. There's a critical difference in if you

22 have it, would you please send me a copy, and, I

23 want something and you need to create it for me

24 because I need it. This discretion request that we

25 must provide is, I think, just too much.

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1 TRACIE STEVENS: Okay. We might be able

2 to take the comments that you've given us today and

3 we'll certainly consider it. Thank you, Jess.

4 Yes, Sharon.

5 SHARON HOUSE: Sharon House, attorney

6 with the gaming Commission.

7 In this particular situation because

8 there has been concern about that area, maybe it

9 just needs to say something like, Directly related

10 to the facility being licensed. That's one.

11 JESS GREEN: That would be helpful.

12 SHARON HOUSE: That would be one option

13 as well as, applicable and available.

14 JESS GREEN: Yes, those two things would

15 be of great assistance if we don't have to go

16 create something.

17 SHARON HOUSE: Thank you. I can't

18 believe he just honored me with that saying.

19 JESS GREEN: Sharon, I very rarely

20 disagree with you. I've learned that over many

21 decades.

22 TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you, Sharon, for

23 that contribution. That's helpful.

24 Do we have others that have comments?

25 Any questions about the regulations as we've

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1 described them? And just many of the -- again, I

2 want to reiterate that we've included tribes in

3 this discussion about all of these regs, not just

4 in the substance here, but with the notice. We

5 wanted to know which one we should look at, but

6 also have discussions before we even drafted

7 anything. And then the draft would reflect what

8 occurred. And then we'll continue to receive

9 comments so that we can move forward.

10 Yes, Joe.

11 JOE WEBSTER: Thank you. Joe Webster.

12 Not necessarily for all regulations, but for 559, I

13 wonder if there might be some value in circulating

14 revised discussion drafts before getting to the

15 point of putting a rule of thumb. Certainly 559

16 also self regulation is another one that comes to

17 mind. There might be some value to a back and

18 forth process.

19 TRACIE STEVENS: Thanks, Joe. We'll take

20 that under consideration.

21 Do we have other comments? Any questions

22 about the regs that we've spoken to this morning?

23 We're up for a break right now. It's

24 about 10:15 on the schedule. We'll take a

25 15-minute break. We'll come back, and if there are

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1 more comments to be made before people leave on

2 parts of the agenda that are for later today, we'll

3 have a statement after we return from the break.

4 So about 15 minutes. We'll be right back.

5 (Short recess)

6 TRACIE STEVENS: Let's go ahead and get

7 started again. I do want to mention that we

8 realize that there are a number of other meetings,

9 speeches that are going on right now and other

10 activities that are scheduled at this same time.

11 We'll continue to move through the agenda, and I

12 think it's one of the disclaimers we have on our

13 agenda that based on our attendance levels, we may

14 end early if at a certain point we've gone over all

15 of our subjects or we've lost everybody to more

16 competing interests that might be more exciting. I

17 can't understand that because this is very

18 exciting. As you can see, Lael is very happy.

19 We have something in the register today

20 that's very exciting. We want you to share in our

21 excitement. Just a disclaimer, depending on the

22 attendance levels and how quickly we move through

23 the agenda, we may end up ending early today.

24 So I want to open the floor again if

25 there are others who need to make comment before we

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1 move on to the next group. Okay.

2 So then what we'll do is move on to the

3 exciting world of proceedings in Group 2 and

4 enforcement issues. And I'll turn it over to Lael

5 who can talk about the regs that are under Group 2,

6 if you want to follow along in your PowerPoint.

7 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: Okay. So Group 2, sort

8 of two major issues. One is Part 573, which is the

9 enforcement regulation and then all the regulations

10 concerning proceedings before the Commission.

11 We'll start with Part 573, which is

12 enforcement. And what the Commission was trying to

13 do when we were talking about this draft was create

14 a mechanism so that the agency is talking to the

15 tribe before we get to a notice of violation stage.

16 We heard over and over again that tribes would get

17 a notice of violation and they didn't even know

18 what was happening and that there should be some

19 communication between the NIGC and the tribe before

20 a notice of violation was issued.

21 I heard a gentleman say that a notice of

22 violation should not be a surprise. So that's what

23 we're trying to do. We're trying to build a

24 mechanism that adds that voluntary compliance as a

25 goal of the Commission. We're working through

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1 iterations of this currently and we're talking

2 about what does voluntary compliance mean and how

3 does that all work.

4 You have in your draft or in your packet

5 a draft of the preliminary discussion draft. And

6 we included the language in there about the

7 voluntary compliance being the goal of the

8 Commission and how we can achieve that.

9 Two different types of actions. One is a

10 letter of concern, and the second is a

11 noncompliance notice. We've heard lots of comments

12 about this noncompliance notice, and perhaps that

13 is not the correct name for it. So we're playing

14 with the language there as well. I think we kind

15 of were thinking about it in terms of a warning

16 letter.

17 So what do they do? A letter of concern

18 is a notice sent by the NIGC staff, not by the

19 Chair but by the staff, that says, there's a

20 condition here and we think that it may be a

21 violation of the Act, the regulations, the

22 ordinance. Take a look. Respond and let's talk

23 about how we can make sure that this isn't

24 something that actually gets to a violation.

25 The warning letter, what we have on the

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1 screen here, noncompliance notice, it says, hey,

2 tribe, we've seen this issue. It actually is a

3 violation. Let's talk about how you can correct

4 this so that we don't have to get to a notice of

5 violation stage.

6 Now, either one of these can be issued at

7 any time. The idea is -- and we're trying to work

8 this into the reg. The idea is we would start at

9 the lowest level. We would start at a letter of

10 concern if possible. If that is not possible, then

11 you would go to a noncompliance notice or a warning

12 letter. If that's not possible, the Chair does

13 have the discretion to issue a notice of violation.

14 We've heard lots of comments about that,

15 that it's too much discretion for the Chair. We're

16 trying to clarify that the idea is that we're

17 talking to you and that the NIGC starts at the

18 lowest level possible to address the situation. In

19 some instances that may require the Chair to issue

20 a notice of violation so we do have to leave that

21 requirement in, but it's something we're talking

22 internally about, how do we frame this process.

23 We have added into the draft internally a

24 timeframe for response. The current -- there's an

25 oversight, I think, on our part. We just didn't

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1 think to put it in the reg. We wanted to make sure

2 that the notice, that either one of these actions

3 leaves the tribe time to respond, and that these

4 actions contain a timeframe for tribes to respond

5 or to address the violation.

6 We really hope this will be a

7 collaborative thing in making sure that tribes have

8 lots of notice of the concerns that the NIGC has so

9 that a notice of violation is truly a last resort

10 or issued when absolutely necessary.

11 We also have a -- as we were working

12 through Part 573, we realized, well, maybe we need

13 to define what an enforcement action is. So we

14 have done that. This is not in your PowerPoint. I

15 did this last night when I was thinking about it.

16 And we do have this in a notice of rule defining

17 what an enforcement action is just for clarity,

18 tribes know what we're talking about when we say

19 enforcement action.

20 The next grouping of regulations in Group

21 2 all have to do with the proceedings before the

22 Commission. And we're talking about appeals of

23 certain instances or certain disapprovals or

24 approvals that would then go to the Commission.

25 The appeal of these various parts that have been

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1 scattered throughout the regulations and create a

2 new subchapter. How can we make this easier for

3 people to find. How can we make it a process that

4 you can just go to a certain section of the regs

5 and have everything there that you need to know,

6 sort of a one stop shop.

7 We created this new Subchapter H,

8 Proceedings Before the Commission. And you do have

9 that in your packet. It covers regulations Part

10 580 and 585. What we tried to do is set up general

11 rules that apply for all these proceedings, what

12 motions can be filed. And then there are four

13 different kind of types of appeals that can happen

14 before the Commission. Appeals of disapprovals or

15 approvals of management contracts.

16 And then appeals of the notice of

17 violation, civil fine assessment, temporary closure

18 or the decision, Chair's decision, to void or

19 modify a management contract, a late fee or fee

20 assessments. All of those can be appealed to the

21 Commission in one of two ways. You can either go

22 before an official and actually have this hearing

23 process where there's lawyers and motions back and

24 forth and discovery. And that's covered in Part

25 584.

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1 Part 585 covers those same types of

2 appeals, but it's not in a hearing form. It's all

3 just on written documents submitted to the

4 Commission.

5 So that's what these sections cover.

6 Part 580, again, is the general rules, including

7 definitions, service requirements. We've had lots

8 and lots and lots of communications about exparte

9 communications, so they're taking a second look at

10 that, Mr. Green.

11 We've got motions and appellate

12 proceedings, what kind of motions, what can you

13 file and how can you file it. This is all stuff

14 that lawyers really love. It is important for

15 tribes to know what your options are and how you go

16 about walking through these proceedings.

17 582, again, gaming ordinances. And a lot

18 of times what we've heard are comments that a lot

19 of this stuff is repetitive. And it is true.

20 You'll see sections in there like what happens when

21 you file late, when you fail to file, what the

22 standards of review are. It is true, a lot of this

23 stuff is repetitive, but it is also specific to

24 that particular section. So we wanted to make sure

25 that it was clear in each section what the process

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1 was for that particular proceeding. So even though

2 it's duplicated in other parts, it still is

3 specific to each type of proceeding. So we wanted

4 to make sure it was laid out in each section.

5 So Part 584 and 585 all have to do with

6 when you're in front of the Commission and you had

7 a notice of violation or some fine assessment, and

8 you can go one of two ways. You can go the hearing

9 route or to the Commission.

10 We just want to point out that when you

11 go before a presiding official, the presiding

12 official makes a recommendation to the entire

13 Commission. And then the Commission makes an

14 ultimate decision on which way to go with regard to

15 that particular appeal.

16 So it's pretty process oriented. Lawyers

17 like it. The rest of us, I guess I'm aware that

18 other people might not find it as fascinating as we

19 do. We try to create a process that's clear so

20 even if you're not a lawyer, it's something that

21 you can follow and understand what your rights are

22 and what the process is.

23 TRACIE STEVENS: Okay. That is the

24 fascinating world of proceedings. Very important.

25 I want to emphasize it is very important. And the

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1 reason why we address these, not only did we hear

2 from tribes that we should look at this because

3 there were some processes here that were not clear

4 or were inconsistent, but we also heard from our

5 own staff. We have in our general counsel's office

6 a number of staff attorneys who were excited at the

7 prospect of being able to rewrite these. And

8 they've been very helpful in drafting these

9 proposed changes from the folks who are down in the

10 weeds and hands on with proceedings before the

11 Commission for these various different types of

12 proceedings.

13 This is something you can talk about, I

14 know we have a number of regulators here, about

15 having this incremental process, the step process

16 before an NOV is issued.

17 JESS GREEN: Jess Green. 573.3A says,

18 The Commission may issue a notice of violation to

19 any person for violations of any provisions of the

20 Act or its chapter.

21 I think you need to restrict "any person"

22 to "a person within your jurisdiction." I don't

23 think you have jurisdiction over the entire world.

24 My best for instance is if you leave this language

25 in here, you're going to have states saying, we

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1 want you to give notice to the government that he's

2 not negotiating in good faith, would you do that,

3 please. You need to restrict who you are sending

4 these violations.

5 And 573.4 number 8, you say that you can

6 issue a temporary closure based on any person

7 submitting false or misleading information to the

8 Commission. Well, that could be the mayor of a

9 local city. Again, you need to restrict the

10 description of persons there.

11 In 11 you say, A gaming operation

12 operates class III gaming in absence of a tribal

13 state compact that is in violation of 25 USC.

14 Those are my specific requests in that

15 section. Thank you.

16 TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you, Jess.

17 Did we have a comment from the table

18 here? Yes, right over here.

19 JUSTIN QUIS QUIS: I guess I missed the

20 definition of it or if this was discussed in

21 previous consultations, but I was just curious as

22 to what is considered a reasonable time regarding

23 violations. What would you consider reasonable

24 time?

25 TRACIE STEVENS: What specific part are

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1 you looking at?

2 JUSTIN QUIS QUIS: I'm looking at

3 573.3.4. Let's say, for example, number 4, May

4 issue a notice of violation to any persons for

5 violations of any provision and set a reasonable

6 time for correction.

7 TRACIE STEVENS: It's in the current reg

8 right now and I'm sure that we've talked about this

9 at some point. I appreciate, by the way, your

10 comment. It's a good question.

11 One of the things, especially with

12 enforcement actions, they are so tribe and

13 situation specific that what might be reasonable,

14 depending on the violation depends on what's

15 happening. It may take a tribe a year to be --

16 depending on what correction they need to make, it

17 may be less than that. There may be an emergency

18 type situation where the Commission has to take

19 action and reasonable may be less time.

20 It's hard for me to answer your question

21 because it is so specific to the situation that's

22 occurring. But that gives us enough flexibility

23 and the tribe enough flexibility to be able to

24 respond. And I think that's why we didn't address

25 that.

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1 Sometimes putting in specific deadlines,

2 especially if it's -- it's one thing for us, but

3 it's really another thing for the tribe depending

4 on what the situation is. There are circumstances

5 that may be completely outside the control of the

6 tribe like the death of an employee who might have

7 been the one to be responding or a natural

8 disaster. We want to remain flexible on that so

9 that we're not boxing the tribe in, but determining

10 with the tribe what is a reasonable time for them.

11 I think that's why we had to address that.

12 Doesn't really give you -- I know my

13 answer doesn't give you a specific time, but it

14 does explain why we have it there.

15 JUSTIN QUIS QUIS: Sounds like it's case

16 by case basically.

17 TRACIE STEVENS: Exactly. Yes.

18 Yes, sir.

19 BRAD SIMMONS: Brad Simmons, Chairman of

20 the Gaming Commission. We receive a letter from

21 you, a notice of violation or any one of these

22 others that we have a reasonable timeframe, will

23 the letter state in there a timeframe? Is that the

24 purpose of the intent is at that point that's when

25 we'll know what the timeframe is?

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1 TRACIE STEVENS: Yes. And my hope is

2 that our staff, who in these first parts where they

3 may be taking non-NOV steps, that they're talking

4 to you prior to that. Otherwise, they may not have

5 been able to get the information to write the

6 letter beforehand. And they'd be working with you

7 to determine what will be a reasonable time. We

8 wouldn't want to put an unreasonable time in place

9 that would be impossible for the tribe to meet.

10 TRACIE STEVENS: Yes.

11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hi. Just one

12 question. Why is the noncompliance notice not

13 agency action subject to challenge?

14 TRACIE STEVENS: We were looking for ways

15 -- as you know, and I said, and this Commission

16 believes, that assistance, compliance and then

17 enforcement. By statute, enforcement actions are

18 actions of the Chair that are attainable so that,

19 as you said, there's some process in place. But

20 that's the angle of what we're trying to do.

21 That's, to me, like the most severe

22 action that I can take. And we want to have some

23 informal process in place so that we don't have to

24 get to NOV. And while we do that now and try to

25 get tribes into compliance, there's no process in

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1 place that really defines for our staff and for the

2 tribes what to expect.

3 I know there are tribes who do this

4 within their own ordinances, within their own

5 jurisdictions. There are other independent federal

6 regulatory bodies who do something similar. That's

7 where we're gathering information. We chose to

8 have it come from staff so that we don't get to a

9 place where there's going to be an issue.

10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: One issue of

11 concern is this focus on how the letter or notice

12 is worded. Tribes operate under a very broad

13 language that encompass violations of the agreement

14 or reps or warranties within the agreement with any

15 notice from a federal agency for noncompliance with

16 law. So a tribe can be faced with a situation in

17 which there's a notice of noncompliance from the

18 federal agency. The tribe would not have had any

19 opportunity to address or any redress within NIGC

20 to challenge that determination if it was something

21 they felt they were not violating.

22 TRACIE STEVENS: So your concern is how

23 this might appear to those who are doing business

24 with tribes? The NOV is pretty clear. And

25 currently as they stand, from what I'm

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1 understanding you say, that this could be more

2 potential black marks against the tribe? Okay.

3 Well, that's something that we'll have to

4 consider. We're trying to put in place some steps

5 in the informal process. We heard so much from

6 tribes about getting whacked with an NOV, that

7 having it come out of nowhere. And we're trying to

8 get the "have it come out of nowhere" out of our

9 vocabulary and try to assist the tribes to come

10 into compliance at some point they know that they

11 can count on.

12 So you've certainly given us food for

13 thought here on what might be effects beyond what

14 we intended. So, thanks.

15 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: One thing we have done

16 in a draft that we're working on internally is we

17 added a requirement. There is a set time in the

18 letter for the tribe to respond or come into

19 compliance. And then second, once the tribe has --

20 once the issue has been resolved, then we issue one

21 of those -- and we'll talk about it in Group 4 --

22 we issue one of those investigation conclusionary

23 completion letters so that it's clear this issue

24 has been resolved, it's gone away, we're not in

25 this investigative sort of mode. There's

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1 resolution reached one way or the other.

2 TRACIE STEVENS: Any other comments on

3 573? How about the proceedings, all the attorney

4 fun stuff? I just want to say before we hand the

5 mic over to Jess, one of the reasons we're doing

6 this is to provide some clarity for non-attorneys.

7 Not every tribe or every regulatory body will

8 initiate this with the help of an attorney. So

9 we're trying to be clearer about processes to the

10 layperson who is a non-legal person when reading

11 this to know what to do. The tribes have

12 representation, but just in case they start down

13 this road before obtaining representation, to be

14 simplified.

15 JESS GREEN: Your rules here prohibit me

16 from access to members and employees of the

17 Commission. The employees are not deciders of

18 fact, but they, in fact, may be witnesses in regard

19 to whether you follow the correct procedure or the

20 correct procedural notices went out. If I have a

21 technical offense that the notices weren't properly

22 received or that information I was supposed to give

23 you was not properly received or handled, in other

24 words, we got it to you but it didn't get in your

25 files because they put it in the wrong file or you

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1 claim that it doesn't exist, how do I question

2 those people? I have no ability if I don't have

3 access to your staff as a procedural issue to make

4 that inquiry.

5 You have blocked me out of a very large

6 basis that these kinds of issues are resolved on,

7 and that is, I sent the information to you.

8 I confirmed it was received at a lower level. And

9 your response is, well, I don't have any record of

10 receiving it. Well, I got somebody's name, but I

11 can't even talk to them. You understand my

12 problem? Again, I think that needs to be addressed

13 here.

14 Again, I know you've addressed some of

15 the issues we've previously raised and I appreciate

16 that, but please keep in mind that the first thing

17 a good lawyer does is, was the procedure followed.

18 Do I have a procedural remedy. Did we, in fact,

19 get that to them. And the procedural breakdown

20 occurred because of one of their lower echelon

21 people simply filed it rather than listing it as

22 being filed. Therefore, I don't have a violation.

23 So I would suggest that you may need to

24 go back and look at that necessity that I feel I

25 might have to question some of your lower echelon

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1 people at least, but I would say make inquiry of

2 anyone that is not a decision maker capacity.

3 Finally, you do not provide any method

4 for me to ask for recusal. I have mentioned this

5 before. If you have a daughter, sister, brother,

6 spouse that's representing one of the parties, boy,

7 that creates a problem for me. If there are

8 reasons for recusal that I need to be able to make

9 and I need a recusal method.

10 In District Court in Oklahoma, if you've

11 got a recusal that's been asked for, the rules are

12 directly contrary to what you just put here in

13 writing. Those rules are that I approach the trier

14 of fact. I describe in private the recusal

15 problem. I don't describe my facts and

16 circumstances. I just simply point out that I want

17 you to recuse because you've slept with one of the

18 parties.

19 TRACIE STEVENS: I didn't.

20 JESS GREEN: I'm not accusing. You go

21 in, you make that request in private, and they

22 refuse every time. Again, it's not published. I

23 have no mechanism with all this here to do this in

24 any fashion. And I can think of a number of

25 reasons why a commissioner ought to be recused. If

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1 you don't want to recuse them for any reason,

2 that's fine. But you've postured it that way

3 without giving me a basis for how I obtain recusal

4 and what your recognized basis might be, and I

5 think that puts me in a very difficult situation as

6 an attorney because I'm going to file something

7 anyway. I simply don't have anyplace in here that

8 you recognize the filing. I think you need to take

9 that seriously.

10 A lot of commissioners have represented a

11 lot of people in the past. While it may not occur

12 to them that that issue was something they

13 represented a party on four or five years ago,

14 I would much rather come to you and tell you,

15 here's your brief on this issue. Did you forget

16 you wrote it?

17 I have actually done that with judges and

18 they said, oh, I did, didn't I. I said, yes, sir.

19 Don't you think that creates the appearance of

20 impropriety since you've already taken a position

21 on this. And got them to recuse.

22 But you already give those automatic

23 recusals when you're a tribal member. I think you

24 ought to have and I would suggest you create a

25 private means because many times that can be real

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1 helpful.

2 TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you, Jess.

3 Actually, I'm going to have Larry make some

4 comments here or maybe even questions. I know that

5 you have brought this up when we were in

6 Washington, DC, and I actually wasn't there and

7 didn't recall. But I know that we had talked about

8 that in the office recently because we were

9 uncertain what you meant by recusal. Now your

10 comments actually are more specific about what the

11 situation would be and why. So thank you for that.

12 JESS GREEN: It can be personal. It can

13 be professional. Any of those categories on the

14 reason that rocks get thrown.

15 LARRY: Just a couple quick responses to

16 your comments. The comment on exparte

17 communications, part of what the Commission has put

18 out in terms of a draft is trying to put a

19 mechanism in place for tribes so that it's very

20 clear what form of communications are allowable and

21 which aren't.

22 So, for example, Commissioner Little may

23 be at a conference like this, may be pending on

24 appeal before him. Somebody honestly comes out

25 with the same issue and somehow Commissioner Little

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1 has to say, I'm sorry, but that's pending me

2 before. We can't have this conversation.

3 We may have to tweak this. We've taken

4 this from other federal agencies, but we may need

5 to tweak it in terms of NIGC. So as the chairwoman

6 said, we have been talking about these issues,

7 that's why we're putting this out as a discussion

8 draft, thinking more about it and addressing the

9 issues to provide the NIGC. The course of work is

10 going to keep going on, comments of appeal, but

11 also making clear what's appropriate and what's

12 not.

13 On the second point with regard to a

14 method of recusal, as the chairwoman said, that had

15 come up in the context of a communication and we're

16 going to start looking at that. Obviously, there

17 are complete federal laws, responsibilities in

18 place for ethical issues, but if I heard you

19 correctly, the department is just making clear that

20 there's a process in place. It may not be already

21 clear or not. There is a process for motions

22 before the committee. We can put some sort of --

23 we can look at some sort of clearer process for

24 allowing a party to make a motion for recusal as

25 well.

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1 JESS GREEN: My other point was I

2 actually appreciate that private, come in your

3 office, did you forget you did hear this four years

4 ago. That has a very valid place because you don't

5 have to publish that. Again, I don't mind handling

6 it any way you want to do it, but a limited

7 approach to recusal sometimes makes good sense.

8 TRACIE STEVENS: Thank you. Other

9 comments on appeals and proceedings before the

10 Commission?

11 Since we have some time before lunch and

12 it seems like we've heard the comments that were

13 intended to be made today, we can move on to Group

14 4. It's in the afternoon section on your agenda.

15 Starting with Group 4 overview. I'll turn it over

16 to Lael one more time.

17 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: Group 4 had a number of

18 things having to do with background investigations

19 and management contract issues. You do have draft

20 rules in your packet. We started with a pilot

21 program, and it's no longer a pilot program because

22 it's 10 years ago. We worked on that one and a

23 couple of others as well.

24 So the pilot program, we've formalized

25 that and we've included it in two parts, Part 556

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1 and 558. Tribes are very supportive of this,

2 putting this process in the regulations and

3 allowing all tribes to participate. So what we've

4 done is we've tried to separate what happens before

5 a gaming license is issued by the tribe and what

6 happens after. So Part 556 includes all the

7 procedures that happen before a gaming license is

8 issued by a tribe.

9 So the pilot program, it allows the

10 tribes to complete their background investigations.

11 And instead of sending all the documentation to the

12 NIGC, the tribe submits a notice of results. And

13 they send it to the region staff and we look at

14 that and evaluate the information there.

15 The regulation, the proposed draft that

16 you have, it requires -- and this was part of the

17 pilot program -- a key employee or primary

18 management official notify an agency, send us that

19 notice of results no later than 60 days after the

20 applicant begins work. We know that tribes have

21 various licensing structures. Some tribes allow

22 applicants or employees to go to work before, we'll

23 just call it, a permanent license has been issued.

24 Many tribes have temporary licenses. We didn't

25 want to interfere with whatever your licensing

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1 structure is. So we're very careful of that and

2 hopefully we've accomplished that in the

3 regulation.

4 So the tribe is sent a notice of results.

5 And then Part 556 as you'll see, NIGC looks at it.

6 We've got 30 days to say "object" or "don't object"

7 to this individual. This is new to the pilot

8 program but is included in the statute.

9 The tribe then is to send the agency

10 notice of license issuance. It's a second step,

11 and we realized in some instances we were not doing

12 that as part of the pilot program. It's a

13 statutory requirement. So we're trying to figure

14 out ways to make that not a burdensome thing.

15 Hopefully we can utilize some websites or email

16 addresses or something. So we're working on that.

17 We also included in Part 556 the ability

18 for a tribe to obtain background information or

19 background investigation materials from another

20 tribe to simply update that. So you don't have to

21 duplicate the work that was done by someone else

22 over the past several years. So we would then

23 include in Part 556.4.

24 We know tribes talk to each other; the

25 gaming commissioners are close. Oh, we're hiring

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1 so and so; we have the background information, and

2 that we're not duplicating the work.

3 So Part 558 is all the procedures that

4 happen after a gaming license is issued. The tribe

5 is free to license that key employee or management

6 official. Again, the notification must come to the

7 NGIC within 30 days. The NGIC has 30 days from

8 receiving the notice of results to request

9 additional information, to object or to not object.

10 Now, here's where things get a little bit

11 tricky. Oftentimes tribes will issue a license to

12 an individual. They send in the notice of results

13 and issue a license. That's completely fine if

14 that's what you want to do. If you haven't heard

15 back in the NIGC, you are running the risk that the

16 NIGC may say, hey, we need more information and we

17 object to issuing a license to that individual.

18 If that happens, if the NIGC objects,

19 then the licensee has the right to a hearing. The

20 tribe has to suspend the license, provide a

21 hearing. And then after the hearing is provided,

22 the results of the hearing to the NIGC. If the

23 trive waits to issue the license and waits to hear

24 from the NIGC and then issues the license, then

25 that hearing process doesn't kick in. So it's only

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1 after the license has been issued by the tribe that

2 the individual has the right to a hearing.

3 We're working with our region staff. We

4 want to make sure that we're responsive, that you

5 get the information back ASAP. We're going to

6 include a requirement that the NIGC issues a letter

7 of no objection so that you have something that

8 says, we don't object to this person being

9 licensed. Ultimately it's the tribe's decision.

10 So that is the pilot program. The other

11 things that were contained in Group 4, Part 537 had

12 to do with background investigations. You'll see

13 in your draft we had included a section for

14 background. We were going to clarify whether or

15 not an individual or class II or class III

16 management contract was sent back. After a lot of

17 comments that we don't need this, this isn't

18 necessary. Very soon, within the next week, you'll

19 see a notice of proposed rule that amends Part 537.

20 It only adds this provision, not some of the other

21 provisions you see in the draft we have, that the

22 chairman exercise discretion in reducing background

23 requirements. Again, trying to streamline

24 processes and not repeat things over and over

25 again.

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1 So you'll see this going out shortly.

2 Probably within the next week it will be in the

3 federal register hopefully, make me happy again.

4 Part 571, again, this part also had a

5 section there that talks about access to offsite

6 records. We heard many, many comments that you

7 have subpoena authority. That made sense to the

8 Commission. They're not going to include that

9 amendment in this notice of proposed rule. This

10 notice of proposed rule will go out and it will

11 only contain the investigation conclusion that I

12 spoke about earlier in Part 573. So where the NIGC

13 has completed an investigation and it's not going

14 to begin an enforcement action, the Commission will

15 then advise the party by letter that the

16 investigation has been concluded.

17 This wasn't something that we brought

18 forward initially. This was something that we

19 heard comments from tribes that, you know, an

20 investigation would be done, and then four or five

21 years later as far as the tribes know, nothing has

22 happened. They did not receive a notice that the

23 investigation has been completed and is concluded.

24 So we get to the issue that Elliot was talking

25 about earlier, tribes have to make disclosures,

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1 that would be helpful.

2 So that's what we're trying to do here.

3 Just a notice. And it doesn't mean that the

4 investigation can't be reopened or that an

5 enforcement action can't be brought in the future,

6 but at this time that investigation is closed.

7 So you'll see this in the federal

8 register hopefully within the next week as well.

9 Also in the register, we've been talking

10 about consultation and whether or not we need to

11 define what a collateral agreement is and whether

12 or not we need to say whether the NIGC has the

13 authority to review the management contracts.

14 Tribes were all over the board, and the NIGC has

15 decided not to go forward with making any changes

16 to any regulations related to collateral agreements

17 to the management contractors.

18 Additionally, we talked about whether or

19 not we need to define what net revenue was. That

20 says, this will be heard, so we're not going to do

21 anything with it.

22 TRACIE STEVENS: Does anyone have a

23 comment? Jess.

24 JESS GREEN: Your press announcement has

25 just gone out. Would you please read the names

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1 now?

2 TRACIE STEVENS: Do you mind if we get

3 through this. I can do it right before lunch.

4 JESS GREEN: That would be fine.

5 TRACIE STEVENS: I want to stay on topic

6 and task. But now that you've said that, it's

7 going to be really hard for everybody to remain on

8 task.

9 We did have some comments earlier on 556

10 and 558. No, I'm not going to give in to Jess.

11 So the pilot program, as Lael explained,

12 has been a pilot program for longer than a pilot

13 can be a pilot. And it's actually incorporated by

14 many tribes already, and many tribes are doing it.

15 We try to capture, as I'm sure she said,

16 before what happens and what happens after in 556

17 and 558. We did hear some and continue to hear the

18 desire of tribes to put through others besides key

19 employees and management officials and we're

20 working with FBI on how we could do that.

21 Just be warned that when you put folks

22 through that process, we're going to hold them to

23 the standard as if they are key employees or

24 primary management officials.

25 The other thing we heard on this topic

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1 was for some tribes they wait until 30 days have

2 elapsed or expired before NIGC can object. Another

3 concern came up about whether or not a tribe issues

4 a temporary license while they're waiting, which we

5 have a right to do. If there's an objection, the

6 tribe would then have to probably pull that

7 license. In order to do that, that licensee now

8 has some rights rather than if they had just

9 waited.

10 Some tribes do it differently. Some,

11 because of the need to have that employee working

12 right away, as many of you probably experience,

13 issue a temporary license and go ahead and give

14 them their due process for licensing should

15 something come up or the NIGC objects.

16 I think that's a decision for the tribes

17 that they've brought up to us, on whether they want

18 to wait or go ahead and do a temporary license.

19 I'm not going to comment on that. But tribes can

20 decide whether they want to do that. I know many

21 tribes just go ahead and issue temporary licenses

22 and some tribes just wait and then issue the

23 license when we have basically the green light in

24 NIGC.

25 Those are the things that came up that I

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1 recall on this particular part. Are there any

2 comments on licensing? I ask about this

3 specifically because I know we have a lot of

4 regulators here.

5 On comments on 537? Lastly, 571. This

6 goes to the issue that or the comment made back to

7 Elliot in response to more on-the-record processes

8 in place for a tribe with our informal process on

9 537. Yes. Can we get a microphone back there.

10 MARVIN OSBORNE: Marvin Osborne,

11 Shoshone-Bannock tribes. I'd like a clarification

12 to this investigation conclusion letter. What is

13 that supposed to mean? Is that a violation issue

14 or is that a criminal finding that you've

15 discovered within the organization? How is that --

16 TRACIE STEVENS: Just to be clear, we

17 don't have criminal jurisdiction. What this is

18 intended for and what we've heard from tribes is

19 they're left in limbo. They knew there was an

20 investigation going on. They hadn't heard anything

21 from us. When they would call and ask about it

22 prior to our arrival, there was this sort of

23 pending doom, this hamper just over the tribes'

24 head, and they never knew were the investigations

25 concluded. Are you going to do something more.

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1 Should we be holding onto these records that we

2 have that you've asked us about.

3 And this was our effort to be clear to

4 tribes that we've concluded our investigation.

5 Now, other federal regulatory agencies do this. So

6 in response to tribes' concerns of these

7 investigations just sort of hung over their head

8 indefinitely -- gaming, gaming violations, that

9 tribes weren't left in limbo. This offered some

10 sort of, I don't want to use the word closure

11 because that gets confused with our parts of our

12 responsibilities, but that the investigation had

13 been completed and we notified the tribe so that

14 that limbo state didn't continue.

15 Does that answer your question?

16 MARVIN OSBORNE: Yeah, somewhat. I

17 believe that in cases like this we're out of the

18 one-on one-consultation of the NIGC because it's a

19 matter that concerns the regulations, our laws and

20 the violation that occurred, and it conflicts that

21 we are ending up having with other federal agencies

22 because all the laws that tribes supported, the

23 United States U.S. attorneys or assistants are

24 supposed to help defend the tribes. But we ran

25 into an instance where that is a conflict or a

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1 complete tragedy with the regulation we're trying

2 to enforce and use versus what the law enforcement

3 divisions are doing. I mean, it's horrible. But

4 those are things that could impact us and I think

5 that we have to somehow or another consult the NIGC

6 so we don't get a violation because it can be

7 serious issues that we don't want to announce to

8 everybody. At the same time, we need to be frank

9 about what's happening.

10 TRACIE STEVENS: Okay. Well, there are

11 two things I want to say in response to your

12 comments. One, this would be just with regard to

13 our authorities under ARAB and our actions and how

14 we're monitoring the gaming operation and working

15 with the regulatory bodies. We certainly can't

16 address anything outside of that that might be

17 happening at other federal agencies, whether that's

18 DOJ, FBI, U.S. attorneys. That would be outside of

19 our scope. So we're only speaking to the actions

20 that the NIGC takes.

21 Now, with regard to consulting the

22 tribes, I guess that's one way to put it. What

23 we're trying to do, as I mentioned, that Elliot

24 brought up, we're trying to structure our processes

25 in a way that we're talking to tribes before we

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1 take action so we can get them in compliance and

2 keep them in compliance, whether that's through

3 giving technical assistance or guidance on how to

4 do that, training, something so that we're not

5 using the big hammer in the NOV, because we know

6 how serious that mark is.

7 So my expectations for our staff is that

8 they are constantly talking with the tribes. If

9 there is an issue coming up, they should be talking

10 with them on a regular basis to bring them into

11 compliance. So we are talking to tribes one on

12 one. And part of our process is we've implemented

13 these, should we adopt them. We'll implement them

14 within our own agency as far as our employees'

15 operating procedures to ensure that we're working

16 as much as we can with a specific tribe on a

17 specific issue. So that helps or gives information

18 regarding your comments.

19 Any other comments on 571? Can you pull

20 up that press release.

21 Okay, Jess, are you paying attention?

22 I'll go ahead and read them. I do want to say that

23 we have 56 nominees. And we have the names here.

24 John Magee, gaming commissioner for Pachenga

25 Indians. In California, Kathy Canell (phonetic),

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1 casino general manager; Jason Remos (phonetic),

2 gaming commission chairman; Daniel Magee, gaming

3 commission administrator; Brian Callahan, gaming

4 commission executive director; Christina Thomas,

5 office of gaming regulation compliance executive

6 director; Steve Gargan (phonetic), gaming

7 commissioner; Jeffrey director of gaming; Michelle

8 Sicona (phonetic) gaming commission executive

9 director Confederated tribe; Rea Culo (phonetic)

10 general manager; Mia, and I'm not even going to try

11 to pronounce her last name, gaming commission

12 compliance director Comanche Nation;

13 Robin Lanfee (phonetic) commissioner; Matthew

14 Morgan gaming commissioner; Thomas Wilson; and

15 Carlene Chino, gaming commissioner executive

16 director of Navajo Nation.

17 That's a total of 15 individuals out of

18 the 56. I want to be very clear that we received,

19 as I said, I think it was a total of 56, I could be

20 wrong, nominees all very well qualified. All

21 responded to our call for nominations with our

22 request to see a myriad of qualifications from

23 people out on the ground. What we were striving to

24 do in picking these individuals is to get regional

25 balance based on a number of factors for different

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1 regions.

2 We know that the Great Plains area is the

3 largest for us in terms of the number of facilities

4 and tribes. There are other regions that are

5 smaller than that. And trying to find some

6 regional balance. We tried to find class II class

7 III balance. We tried to find regulators and

8 operators and also we are fortunate to have some

9 folks who are or have been tribal leaders.

10 We did have some restrictions that I want

11 to be clear about. Because we're operating as the

12 Federal Advisory Commitment Act, it's exempt from

13 that Act because tribes, state governments and

14 local governments are exempt from FACA. Because

15 this is a government to government interaction,

16 we're not following FACA. But even with that,

17 there are strict guidelines that we have to follow.

18 The people that are nominated, we made

19 that clear in our nomination letter, that they had

20 to be -- they speak only for the tribe they

21 represent and that the governing body of that tribe

22 had to give authorization for that individual to do

23 so. So it had to be the governing body of the

24 tribe. Because the tribe is the government with

25 which we have a government to government

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1 relationship. We did get some that came from just

2 the Gaming Commission. We did clarify with this

3 them. They had to turn back in a governing body

4 letter that says that individual speaks for them.

5 Following that, because they were trying

6 to find regional balance, I don't want it to be

7 construed that they're from the region, they

8 represent that region, because they cannot

9 represent anybody but their own tribe and they

10 can't be a lobbyist. That's the other thing.

11 We had to do some background on these

12 individuals with this administration, which we

13 support wholly, and to make sure that they were

14 appropriately selected individuals. Many of the

15 folks here have done background in licensing so

16 naturally we're clear.

17 This committee is meant to review our

18 minimum control standards and our technical

19 standards. We pull them out of these consultations

20 because they're very technical in nature and are

21 time consuming. That makes the technical standards

22 role on another track with this tribal advisory

23 committee whose objective is to review the regs,

24 the technical standards, review alternative

25 standards that were proposed to us by a tribe or a

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1 number of tribes, and give us their recommendations

2 on those documents.

3 Again, I want to reiterate that this

4 group does not speak for all tribes. We recognize

5 that and we readily acknowledge that. They're just

6 practitioners basically who are on the ground who

7 can tell us from different regions how certain

8 proposals will or won't affect them. And that

9 after the work that these folks will do, at the end

10 of this we will have some draft regs that we can

11 show based on some expertise and then do some

12 consultation so that tribes have a chance to weigh

13 in.

14 These kind of committees are not unusual

15 in this administration in particular for tribes to

16 do a lot of these. And we're following a different

17 format than has happened in the past with this

18 agency. We will have a facilitator. We will have

19 ground rules that the advisory committee will agree

20 upon as a committee. We'll have some order and

21 people will know what the order is. I'm not going

22 to just be me up here commanding everybody and you

23 don't know what the rules are. That's not fair.

24 So we're trying to do this differently.

25 We're trying to take a fresh look at how we can do

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1 these and get really honest feedback from the

2 practitioners in Indian country.

3 I know there are some folks who are

4 disappointed that certain people may not have made

5 it on there. I want to let you know this was

6 really, really difficult. We had so many good

7 nominations and good candidates with good

8 qualifications. And it's very difficult.

9 We also wanted to keep the committee in a

10 manageable form. I just want to reiterate

11 everybody was a good candidate and they were tough

12 choices. Really what we wanted to do was have

13 diversity and balance, and we believe these

14 individuals bring that to the table.

15 Dan, did you want to add anything to

16 that?

17 JERRY DANFORTH: No. Just like the Chair

18 said, we had a very good group of nominees. And we

19 painstakingly reviewed every single application.

20 And we wanted to make sure, and it was very

21 important, that we included folks that had some

22 operational experience because we all know and

23 understand the regulatory side very well and

24 sometimes what the regulations say, how the

25 operators are able to manage an operation under

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1 those, is sometimes difficult. So it's important

2 to have operators in there at the table being able

3 to provide this information.

4 I'm very excited. The chairwoman said

5 we'll be using a facilitator. That is really going

6 to be quite a change from the recent past and the

7 way we've done things. A good level of open

8 communication that is going to provide a good

9 result.

10 One other kind of a housekeeping issue,

11 as the chairwoman said, we're operating under an

12 exempt committee. And one of the criteria is that

13 the nominees must be direct employees of the tribe.

14 And we did have some very, very skilled nominees

15 that came through that if they served would be a

16 huge asset. Unfortunately, they were not a direct

17 employee of the tribe so they were not able to be

18 selected. However, I would hope that they still

19 participate. We're going to make sure that there

20 will be an opportunity for folks who are attending

21 to comment. Thank you.

22 TRACIE STEVENS: So there you go, Jess,

23 you got your way.

24 JESS GREEN: I didn't get my way.

25 TRACIE STEVENS: Are you as excited as we

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1 are? We're giddy today.

2 JESS GREEN: No. You got one region --

3 Oklahoma only has one representative.

4 TRACIE STEVENS: Again, fair balance is

5 what we were striving for. Actually, there's two

6 regions from Oklahoma. There's three

7 representatives from the State of Oklahoma alone.

8 And we have three representatives from the Great

9 Plains. We were trying to be fair and balanced.

10 JESS GREEN: There's two offices in

11 Oklahoma.

12 TRACIE STEVENS: I know. I'm aware. All

13 right. Are there any questions about this? We

14 were trying to be as informative as to how we came

15 to the decision process. I want to reiterate.

16 We're going to be working with the advisory

17 committee in the next couple weeks and getting some

18 ground rules. It is just necessary so that

19 everybody knows what is expected of them, how the

20 committee is going to work. And, again, I want to

21 reiterate that there will be opportunity and it

22 will be based on what the committee together

23 decides on what will be the mechanism to bring in

24 their experts. Because they'll be bringing people

25 in because they're not expected to know absolutely

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1 everything, and then how the public can comment,

2 how we can bring in some experts because there are

3 some very technical aspects. You start talking IT,

4 we do need specialists to be able to come in and be

5 able to speak to that. So we're going to build

6 into the ground rules how that happens and when it

7 happens and that's going to be a committee

8 decision.

9 If there's no more on this, how does

10 everyone feel about talking about the very last

11 group, 518, self regulation. There is no

12 regulation right now for sole proprietary interest.

13 If everyone is okay, we can step on the gas here.

14 I'll turn it over to Lael.

15 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: So the last group we

16 have on the agenda is Group 5, self regulation and

17 a potential sole proprietary interest regulation.

18 So starting with the self regulation,

19 Part 518, the notice of inquiry that went out last

20 year asked whether or not we should review this

21 regulation or we should review the process for

22 obtaining a certification for class II for tribes.

23 We received numerous comments. All of them

24 supported taking a look at the process and making

25 it more -- making the burden of the application and

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1 certification process, making the benefits at least

2 equal. Out of the over 200 and some odd gaming

3 tribes that we have, we have two tribes that

4 actually have the self regulations. We do have the

5 Commissioner Little here today. So if you have any

6 questions, he'll be happy to answer them.

7 So the discussion draft that you have in

8 your handouts, one of the things that we really

9 were trying to do is we began drafting those to

10 shift the focus of the regulation from the

11 operation to the regulation. A lot of the

12 requirements didn't make sense. Why do we care

13 sort of about what goes on operationally when what

14 we're talking about is can the tribe adequately

15 regulate that operation and should the integrity of

16 the gaming operation.

17 And just kind of a list of these.

18 Section 518.3 contains the submission requirements

19 in the draft. We pulled a bunch out. And you can

20 see on our website, I think our draft is 29 pages.

21 It was very hard to do a red line because we cut so

22 much out, and see sort of clearly what we had left

23 in and what we added. So we have history of gaming

24 operation, employment criteria for regulators,

25 description of the regulatory agency.

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1 We wanted to make sure that this was a

2 body that's going to function. It's going to

3 function well. It's adequately funded. You have

4 people there that are qualified to be regulators.

5 Descriptions of accounting systems, so we

6 know that there's a system for tracking, internal

7 controls. We've been asked about this. Do you

8 have to send in your entire internal controls. No.

9 We just want a list. We want to know that you

10 actually have controls that apply to tracking

11 gaming revenue and making sure that everything is

12 being tracked appropriately.

13 Record keeping systems for investigation,

14 enforcement actions, prosecutions. Copy of the

15 facility license, which we also heard is

16 duplicative, which is a good point. We'll take a

17 look at that. Tribal gaming regulations if not

18 already included in the ordinance. I know a lot of

19 tribes have a gaming ordinance and have their

20 gaming regulations. We are going to need a copy of

21 your ordinance. If we don't have a copy of your

22 regulations, that we would request that those come

23 in as well.

24 So then 518.4 talks about the criteria

25 must be met to receive a certificate of self

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1 regulation. We couldn't play with this language

2 that much. We tried to be descriptive about what

3 it means.

4 So the access. The tribe conducts gaming

5 -- fiscally, economically sound basis and generally

6 free of criminal or dishonest activity.

7 And then gaming can be conducted in

8 compliance with the Act, NIGC regulations, and

9 gaming regulations.

10 So we talked about what kind of things

11 would show that this criteria has been met. And so

12 518.4 sub B says, A tribe can illustrate by listing

13 these factors. And we tried to be clear that this

14 is just a list that we sort of took from the old

15 reg and we added some things in, but this isn't

16 all-inclusive. Doesn't mean that if you don't meet

17 one of these, this was some things that internally

18 we thought would be very useful to show that the

19 criteria, the dispute resolution processes,

20 effectiveness, regulatory body has a way to monitor

21 compliance, accounting systems. The gaming

22 regulatory agency has the ability to go and review

23 the accounting information from the gaming

24 operation, that they have access to audit and

25 inspect the papers, books and records. Gaming

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1 operation and class II gaming activities. That

2 there's adequate investigating, licensing and

3 monitoring system for employees. License records

4 are kept.

5 There are standards for vendors. A

6 number of things -- this really go to show that the

7 tribe has established a regulatory system that

8 adequately regulates on its own, not the NIGC,

9 adequately regulates its class II operation. The

10 tribe demonstrates that the operation is

11 financially stable. This is a requirement of the

12 Act. How are we going to do that. I know we've

13 had concern from tribes, what if I default on my

14 loan, what does that mean.

15 If you have thoughts about it, we'd like

16 to hear it. It is in the Act, but is there a way

17 we can be more clear to tribes about what that

18 means.

19 So then what's the process? We're

20 looking at this internally now. We want to make

21 sure that the process is clear for how this

22 happens. You send in your petition. Mr. Little is

23 the office of self regulation in this instance.

24 Makes an initial determination. Issues a report.

25 Issues a certificate of self regulation. Provides

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1 a response time so the tribe can say, hey, I did

2 meet these criteria, here's why. Hearings before

3 the office of self regulation, and then the office

4 of self regulation issue a decision which is

5 appealable to the full Commission. Annual

6 reporting requirements are now statutory. We were

7 trying to think of a way that meets the

8 requirements of the Act, and the Act simply says

9 that the tribe then as the certificate must send in

10 an audit, which tribes do anyways, and a complete

11 resume for all management officials and key

12 employees hired by the tribe after receiving the

13 certificate. That has really caused a lot of angst

14 internally at the tribal level. So we are trying

15 to define what that means.

16 Someone suggested -- we've heard

17 suggestions that that means only -- what we did in

18 the draft we said for only primary management

19 positions and key employees. The Act itself says

20 for all employees. So we're trying to work on the

21 definition of employee. Our suggestion was that

22 primary management officials and key employees.

23 We've heard in consultation that that definition

24 perhaps should be just for the regulators, which

25 makes some sense if we are shifting the focus to

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1 the regulatory body and the tribes' regulatory

2 structure.

3 So we're still defining that definition.

4 If you have thoughts on that, let us know. It is a

5 burden. It's a requirement, but it's statutory so

6 there's not a lot of wiggle room there.

7 Then, again, tribes continue to inform

8 the Commission about circumstances material to the

9 certification. We added language to the Act that

10 says what investigative enforcement powers of the

11 Commission are limited. It's statutory, and we

12 just repeated it in the Act because we wanted to be

13 clear to tribes what it is the NIGC can do and

14 can't do while you have a certificate.

15 This certification doesn't limit the

16 Commission's authority to conducting investigations

17 and potential violations and issue enforcement

18 actions if necessary. It's important to reiterate

19 it's also in the Act, but we wanted to make sure

20 that that is still clear to tribes.

21 The second has to do with sole

22 proprietary interest. As you know, this is an

23 issue that comes up regularly. I think we've done

24 92. The NIGC's office issued 92 different opinions

25 Each is extraordinarily fact specific. And as

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1 we've been trying to wrap our brains around how do

2 we address this, should we provide clarity, should

3 a court provide some clarity, and if it's clarity

4 that's needed, what is it.

5 Comments were all over the board. They

6 continue to be all over the board. And we're --

7 what the process should be. If a request for an

8 opinion comes in or the contracts to see if they

9 violate the sole proprietary issues, how do you get

10 that. Right now we see a lot of management

11 contracts, but there are other ways that that can

12 happen. So we thought perhaps providing some

13 clarity as to the process might help alleviate some

14 of these concerns.

15 Sole proprietary is defined as primary

16 beneficiary. So we're still looking and talking

17 about this issue and we'd be happy to hear about

18 them as we process this more.

19 TRACIE STEVENS: So that was a mouthful.

20 We only have three self-proprietary tribes. The

21 other two have qualified going through the process

22 that is established in the current reg in reports

23 from those tribes every year. I do want to be

24 clear that this is about class II regulation. In

25 previous consultations there was some questions

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1 about can you self reg class III. This is just for

2 class II. And I think both of the tribes that are

3 self reg right now are hybrid, they have class II

4 and class III, both separate facilities. But even

5 so, this is only for class II self reg.

6 And, again, I want to reiterate what Lael

7 was talking about, that the changes that were made

8 that are in the proposed discussion draft were

9 meant to focus on the ability of the tribal

10 regulatory body to regulate, not about the

11 operations. There was a lot of specificity --

12 there is a lot of specificity in the current

13 regulation and requirements to maintain that at the

14 same level. We heard that tribes thought this

15 process was cumbersome at best and not worth it to

16 go through that process every year. But with the

17 focus so much on the operations and not so much on

18 the regulatory bodies' ability to regulate in lieu

19 of NIGC doing it, we observed that that may be some

20 of the reason why we're not seeing more tribes do

21 this.

22 All of our initiatives that the NIGC is

23 taking on right now is reduce redundancies and

24 eliminate duplicative processes, and we saw this in

25 this regulation.

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1 The list of things that we need for

2 application, I wanted to comment on that, how to

3 maintain a certificate once you have it and then

4 some of the things that Lael was pointing out that

5 we really will need some comments on, how do you

6 define financial stability. And also because the

7 Act talks about having a list of employees, that

8 means it could be the guy cleaning the bathroom,

9 when what we may want is the guy running the place

10 or key employees or key manager, primary management

11 officials like cage managers. So your comments on

12 our suggestion on just focusing on key employees

13 and primary management officials are helpful.

14 And then sole proprietary interest, we

15 don't have a draft on that, but certainly we would

16 welcome your comments. Like Lael said, we get

17 mixed information. We have some tribes saying,

18 hey, we really need you to do this and make clear

19 to in management and in financial transactions,

20 businesses, business transactions that tribes make

21 that the other party is clear about what is and

22 isn't okay. Whereas, other tribes say, if you do

23 that, you're going to cause -- there will be less

24 opportunity if you do that.

25 So we're still in the

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1 information-gathering phases. And as Lael said, it

2 is very specific. We have seen the most complex

3 and creative documents for any business of tribes

4 than I think I've ever seen. So it is very case

5 specific. But certainly our goal is not -- we're

6 looking to create some guidance to those

7 transactions so that we can prevent problems in the

8 future. How we do that, we need your input on

9 that.

10 I'll open the floor to comments for

11 anyone who has had the opportunity to read the self

12 reg or has comments on sole proprietary interest.

13 Could also be some food for thought while you get

14 some food for lunch. I hate to stand in

15 everybody's way for lunch. So we'll certainly be

16 back to see who else may be here. We can continue

17 this conversation. If you want to give it some

18 thought. We'll be back at 1:30, I think is what

19 we're scheduled for. Give some thought to these.

20 If you have any questions, please ask. If you need

21 some clarification or have general statements on

22 anything we've covered today, we will look forward

23 to seeing you after lunch. Have a good lunch.

24 We'll be back in an hour and a half.

25 (Recess from 12:07 p.m. to 1:40 p.m.)

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1 DANIEL LITTLE: We're going to bring this

2 meeting back to order. I would like to thank you

3 for participating. We went through all four groups

4 and kind of an explanation and some comments. I'll

5 open the floor up for anyone that would like to

6 make a comment on any of the groups or any of the

7 specific regulations we talked about earlier.

8 WALTER HAMILTON: With regard to 514, the

9 fees --

10 DANIEL LITTLE: Can you speak your name.

11 WALTER HAMILTON: My name is Walter

12 Hamilton. The 514 on the fees kind of duplicates

13 what the state is doing now, charging us 6 percent.

14 And then with NIGC taking out even more, it is just

15 going to be extremely burdensome for the tribes.

16 DANIEL LITTLE: These are the fees that

17 are assessed to all tribes that fund the operation

18 of the NIGC. We're not talking about increasing

19 the fees.

20 WALTER HAMILTON: Are they in place now?

21 They're already being charged?

22 DANIEL LITTLE: Yes, sir. They're in

23 place now.

24 WALTER HAMILTON: I didn't understand

25 that. I thought it was something new.

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1 DANIEL LITTLE: The big component in

2 number 514 is to create a process in addressing

3 late fees and trying to take it out of a process

4 that leads to an issue of notice of violation and

5 creating more of a ticketing process, like a fee

6 process, to kind of move along the process. We

7 spend a lot of time and process to issue an NOV.

8 We're not increasing the fee. Setting the fee rate

9 is something the Commission does in -- we do a

10 preliminary fee in January and then we do the final

11 one around July.

12 WALTER HAMILTON: Moving on to 518,

13 governor prepared a statement and NIGC says she's

14 opposed to CFR 518.3 because information requested

15 violates by requiring to have to submit

16 information. Other request for information such as

17 a list of current employees fund. Organizational

18 charts are not clearly made to NIGC. Now the

19 tribes are required to obtain an annual minimal

20 standards audit, and NIGC should be able to rely

21 solely upon these and review the notice of

22 violation issued by NIGC over the last three years.

23 She goes on to say 518.4B59, and 518.4B7. They

24 require tribal regulatory body to establish

25 standards for licensing of vendors who deal with

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1 the gaming operation. Section 518.4B7 requires

2 implement with interest policy for the regulatory

3 body.

4 The tribes believe these standards and

5 policies will be valuable (indiscernible) no such

6 mandate. Tribal support the amendment subsection

7 518.9, currently 25 CFR subsection 518.9 works to

8 effectively nullify and lessen oversight. NIGC

9 interpretation interference (indiscernible) with

10 self regulatory tribe and preliminary draft changes

11 518.9. Part 518 may become more important to

12 Oklahoma gaming tribes as contracts expire if the

13 state is unwilling to negotiate these contracts.

14 (Indiscernible) may consider increasing them if the

15 state does not renegotiate by increasing games

16 above the level we currently have and seeking

17 certification under 518 at that time. However, as

18 518 currently (indiscernible) standards effects

19 resulting from waiving the fee requirements are

20 minimal and burdensome and achieving self

21 regulation is still high. The tribes supporting

22 NIGC's efforts to increase the financial incentives

23 and reduce the burden of the application process.

24 However, preliminary draft changes to other parts

25 as identified (indiscernible).

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1 (Mr. Hamilton was reading from a

2 document, a copy of which will be submitted to the

3 Commission.)

4 DANIEL LITTLE: Thank you for that

5 comment. Would it be possible to get a copy of

6 that so we can have it for the record?

7 WALTER HAMILTON: Sure. I have it right

8 here. All three of our commissioners brought

9 copies.

10 DANIEL LITTLE: Thank you very much.

11 Valuable information and we'll take a look at that.

12 WALTER HAMILTON: That was her answer

13 September 29th on what the NIGC webpage had.

14 DANIEL LITTLE: Thank you.

15 WALTER HAMILTON: There were a lot of

16 those questions, I mean, a lot of parts of what you

17 all are amending to the NIGC. And I read through a

18 lot of those and I didn't find too many favorable.

19 Are you still going to go ahead even though you're

20 getting negative responses?

21 DANIEL LITTLE: 518?

22 WALTER HAMILTON: On everything that has

23 been proposed so far on the changes.

24 DANIEL LITTLE: I'm not sure if I

25 understand your question.

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1 WALTER HAMILTON: The responses to all of

2 your amendments, or whatever they are, they're all

3 negative that's on the webpage.

4 DANIEL LITTLE: I think one of the goals

5 of putting discussion drafts up before we start

6 moving forward with promulgating regulation was to

7 hear back from the tribes, get good feedback and

8 comments, and those are reviewed. And as we move

9 to formally move forward with the proposed rule

10 making, we're taking that into account. In many

11 cases we've adjusted the draft regulation, which

12 you'll see in what are being published there are

13 some differences. I would hope maybe you can read

14 when the new proposals come out, you'll see that

15 we've taken into account a lot of the comments that

16 the tribes have made.

17 WALTER HAMILTON: That's all I've got to

18 say.

19 DANIEL LITTLE: Yes, sir.

20 BRAD SIMMONS: In regard to 518.7, you're

21 looking for opinions back on kind of a definition.

22 I kind of went back through it during the lunch.

23 Since you're trying to do this as more of the

24 regulatory side than it is on the management side,

25 I think it would be appropriate when we ask for

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1 resumes at that point from the regulatory

2 authorities, not from the managements, not from the

3 operators. Since this is a self-regulatory

4 certificate, how many government agencies are going

5 to be open -- in this regard I would take that to

6 mean it would be the government wishes those that

7 are on the tribal regulatory agencies.

8 LAEL ECHO-HAWK: Thank you. That's a

9 recommendation that we heard before. It is going

10 to be -- that's the trick to finding who the

11 employees are. I think the Commission is thinking

12 about that, how we define who the employees are

13 that will require rescinding the resume. We've

14 heard that and that's something we're thinking

15 about.

16 BRAD SIMMONS: I understand there's a law

17 to that. To what purpose? You get a resume.

18 You've already licensed, you've already hired --

19 let's say going the operations side. They've

20 already licensed. They've already hired. They've

21 already been approved. What purpose is there to

22 have the resume forum? If there's any chance of

23 changing that section of the law to accommodate --

24 is the NIGC then at that point going to make an

25 opinion on whether we should invite that person?

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1 Are you going to be asking for the job descriptions

2 of the people?

3 This is where you, to me -- I understand

4 there's the law behind it, but how far is the NIGC

5 going to plan on going into how the tribe operates

6 its casino?

7 TRACIE STEVENS: Well, we appreciate your

8 comments on that. And as Lael said, we are

9 soliciting comments on this because this is exactly

10 the language that's in. We have to figure out what

11 they mean when they wrote this because it is

12 cumbersome right now the way that the regs are, the

13 way the current regs are and the way the two tribes

14 that are suffering are handling this, it's all

15 their casino employees. And is that what the

16 authors meant or was it the regulatory body.

17 I can say that it's not the intent of

18 this Commission to start telling you who you can

19 hire. For this Commission that's not something

20 you're going to see here or in what we're doing. I

21 think it's more about the same type of concerns

22 about -- the same kinds of issues that come up with

23 key employees and primary management officials and

24 then we know who's there. Certainly appreciate

25 your comments.

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1 DANIEL LITTLE: Are there any other

2 comments on 518? Some very good additional

3 information that you're providing. Appreciate

4 that. Any other groups or regulations?

5 If there's no other comment, I think

6 we're going to bring this consultation session to a

7 conclusion. I know on behalf of the Commission,

8 we're very grateful for your participation, coming

9 out here, especially on the last day. I know it

10 has been a long week, not just being in Las Vegas.

11 There has been a lot of good meetings and things

12 going on. We're very grateful that you all

13 dedicated time to come out here today.

14 And the transcript for this meeting, all

15 the comments, we'll post those on the website

16 NIGC.gov. We urge you, if there is anything

17 additional you think about on your ride home,

18 please submit them. Like we were saying earlier,

19 these discussion drafts have been very, very

20 helpful in order to kind of get the conversation

21 started. As we start moving forward trying to

22 promulgate a rule, there's going to be real

23 involvement here. We hope that we receive the same

24 participation and comments. That's the way this

25 Commission believes, this is a process that we all

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1 have a stake in and we want to make sure that the

2 final product is the best possible product.

3 I'll turn it back over to the chairwoman

4 to close the meeting. Thank you.

5 TRACIE STEVENS: So thank you all for

6 returning after lunch. We've gone through all of

7 the issues that we had planned to today. I

8 appreciate you especially coming back after lunch.

9 As Dan said, all of this information can be found

10 at NIGC.gov under the consultation button under

11 2011-12, the consultation reg review. If you have

12 any questions, you can send them to this email.

13 You can call us. You can send your comments in.

14 We'll continue to announce when we have

15 more drafts available, and then certainly as the

16 Tribal Advisory Committee moves forward on

17 standards and technical standards, we'll continue

18 to inform tribes as we move on.

19 Thank you all for attending today. Wish

20 you safe travels home. And the next -- also I want

21 to thank the staff that helped support us here

22 today. Our next consultation will be at NCAI in

23 Portland on November 3rd where we'll have a similar

24 discussion there, but we will have a list of rules

25 that will be in the federal register at that point

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1 in time that we'll start discussing the next step

2 in the process of promulgating final rules.

3 So that consultation will be a little different

4 than this one. We'll be in a different stage of

5 the rule making process.

6 After that it will be South Dakota on

7 November 14th, and then after that will be Michigan

8 on December 5th as we progress in each of these

9 rules. So certainly invite all of you to attend

10 any of those or go to our website and you can view

11 transcripts and you certainly are free to submit

12 written comments as we move on.

13 So, again, thank you, safe travels, and

14 good to see all of you come out. Thank you.

15 (Meeting adjourned at 1:57 p.m.)

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

2 STATE OF NEVADA )

 ) SS:

3 COUNTY OF CLARK )

4 I, Kimberly A. Farkas, a duly commissioned

5 Notary Public, Clark County, State of Nevada, do

6 hereby certify: That I attended the NRRA MEETING,

7 commencing on October 6, 2011 at 9:00 a.m.

8 That I thereafter transcribed my said shorthand

9 notes into typewriting, and that the typewritten

10 transcript of said meeting is a complete, true and

11 accurate transcription of said shorthand notes, to

12 the best of my ability.

13 I further certify that I am not a relative or

14 employee of an attorney or counsel of any of the

15 parties, nor a relative or employee of an attorney

16 or counsel involved in said action, nor a person

17 financially interested in the action.

18

19 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

20 in my office in the County of Clark, State of

21 Nevada, this 25th day of October, 2011.

22

23 ______________________________

24 Kimberly A. Farkas, CCR 741

25

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&

& 1:13

1

1 10:1 12:16,16

14:19

10 14:22 49:22

10:15 27:24

11 37:11

120 16:15 17:4,7

12:07 79:25

13.1775. 9:14

14 7:15 9:15 10:12

14th 89:7

15 4:18,25 14:22

27:25 28:4 62:17

180 18:13,20

1:30 79:18

1:40 79:25

1:57 89:15

2

2 29:3,5,7 32:21

20 14:23

200 70:2

2009 14:11

2011 1:10 90:7,21

2011-12 88:11

21 4:20

25 37:13 82:7

25th 90:21

2706 23:19 25:13

29 70:20

29th 83:13

2:00 1:11

3

3 11:24 17:17

30 14:22 17:2,22

18:11 20:2,8,16

51:6 52:7,7 57:1

3rd 88:23

4

4 38:3 42:21 49:14

49:15,17 53:11

5

5 10:1 69:16

514 12:16,22,23

15:14 80:8,12 81:2

518 69:11,19 81:12

82:11,17,18 83:21

87:2

518.3 70:18 81:14

518.4 71:24 72:12

518.4b59 81:23

518.4b7 82:1

518.4b7. 81:23

518.7 84:20

518.9 82:7,7

518.9. 82:11

523 12:16 15:23

537 53:11,19 58:5,9

556 49:25 50:6 51:5

51:17 56:9,16

556.4. 51:23

558 50:1 52:3 56:10

56:17

559 12:18 16:3

27:12,15

559.6 23:8

559.6. 23:7

56 61:23 62:18,19

571 54:4 58:5 61:19

573 29:8,11 32:12

43:3 54:12

573.3.4. 38:3

573.3a 36:17

573.4 37:5

580 33:10 34:6

582 34:17

584 33:25 35:5

585 33:10 34:1 35:5

5th 89:8

6

6 1:10 80:13 90:7

60 14:23,24 50:19

7

741 90:24

8

8 37:5

9

90 14:19,24 15:11

92 75:24,24

9:00 1:11 90:7

a

a.m. 1:11 90:7

ability 5:13 24:22

24:24 44:2 51:17

72:22 77:9,18 90:12

able 7:5 26:1 36:7

38:23 40:5 45:8

66:25 67:2,17 69:4

69:5 81:20

absence 37:12

absolutely 32:10

68:25

access 8:16 11:12,19

12:13 43:16 44:3

54:5 72:4,24

accommodate 8:9

85:23

accomplished 51:2

account 84:10,15

accounting 71:5

72:21,23

accurate 13:15

90:11

accurately 6:10

accusing 45:20

achieve 30:8

achieving 82:20

acknowledge 65:5

acquisition 19:17

act 13:23 18:9 21:25

22:5,20 24:17 30:21

36:20 63:12,13 72:8

73:12,16 74:8,8,19

75:9,12,19 78:7

action 10:18 32:13

32:17,19 38:19

40:13,22 54:14 55:5

61:1 90:16,17

actions 30:9 32:2,4

38:12 40:17,18

60:13,19 71:14

75:18

activities 4:7 28:10

73:1

activity 72:6

actual 9:13 13:18

add 66:15

added 14:7 15:14

16:12 18:3 31:23

42:17 70:23 72:15

75:9

additional 52:9 87:2

87:17

additionally 18:21

55:18

address 11:5 21:5

23:14 31:18 32:5

36:1 38:24 39:11

41:19 60:16 76:2

addressed 22:10

44:12,14

addresses 51:16

addressing 48:8

81:2

adds 29:24 53:20

adequate 73:2

adequately 18:6

70:14 71:3 73:8,9

adjourned 89:15

adjusted 84:11

administration

64:12 65:15

administrator 62:3

adopt 61:13

advise 54:15

advisory 12:6,8

63:12 64:22 65:19

68:16 88:16

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affect 65:8

afternoon 49:14

agencies 15:2 16:10

19:2 48:4 59:5,21

60:17 85:4,7

agency 2:16 9:22

17:22 19:10,11,13

19:19 20:7 29:14

40:13 41:15,18

50:18 51:9 61:14

65:18 70:25 72:22

agenda 5:2,9,15,23

6:22 8:22 9:3 11:22

12:2,4 28:2,11,13

28:23 49:14 69:16

ago 13:25 20:11

46:13 49:4,22

agree 65:19

agreement 7:8,21

8:3 41:13,14 55:11

agreements 55:16

ahead 5:15 6:22

28:6 57:13,18,21

61:22 83:19

alleviate 76:13

allow 50:21

allowable 47:20

allowing 48:24 50:3

allows 50:9

alternative 64:24

amending 83:17

amendment 54:9

82:6

amendments 84:2

amends 53:19

amortization 13:17

amount 10:6 15:19

24:16

analysis 22:2,2

angle 40:20

angst 74:13

announce 60:7

88:14

announced 4:23

announcement

55:24

annual 15:10,11

74:5 81:19

annually 15:19

answer 8:1 23:13

24:7 38:20 39:13

59:15 70:6 83:12

answering 23:17

anticipate 16:1

anybody 6:20 7:7

64:9

anyplace 46:7

anyway 46:7

anyways 74:10

apart 25:5

apologize 9:5

appeal 10:17 32:25

35:15 47:24 48:10

appealable 74:5

appealed 33:20

appeals 15:7 32:22

33:13,14,16 34:2

49:9

appear 23:21,22

41:23

appearance 46:19

appellate 34:11

applicable 26:13

applicant 50:20

applicants 50:22

application 13:12

18:4 21:23 22:23

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64:21 74:1 81:7

82:17 87:13 89:1

timeframe 31:24

32:4 39:22,23,25

timeline 19:25

times 34:18 46:25

today 5:2,8 6:11

10:10 12:10 26:2

28:2,19,23 49:13

68:1 70:5 79:22

87:13 88:7,19,22

today's 6:1

tomorrow 12:25

15:6

top 20:24

topic 25:12 56:5,25

total 4:19 62:17,19

tough 66:11

tracie 2:2,25 3:7 4:2

7:13 8:20 21:15

22:6,15 23:4 25:2,7

26:1,22 27:19 28:6

35:23 37:16,25 38:7

39:17 40:1,10,14

41:22 43:2 45:19

47:2 49:8 55:22

56:2,5 58:16 60:10

67:22,25 68:4,12

76:19 86:7 88:5

track 64:22

tracked 71:12

tracking 71:6,10

tragedy 60:1

training 61:4

transactions 78:19

78:20 79:7

transcribed 6:13

11:6 90:8

transcript 1:5 87:14

90:10

[subpoena - transcript] Page 17

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transcription 90:11

transcriptionist 6:4

6:10

transcripts 11:9

89:11

transparent 11:21

travels 88:20 89:13

tremendous 24:16

tribal 4:10 5:5 9:8,8

9:12,16 12:5 19:20

21:19 22:18 23:5

37:12 46:23 63:9

64:22 71:17 74:14

77:9 81:24 82:6

85:7 88:16

tribe 2:8,10,14 7:2

8:17 11:8 14:9,20

16:7,13,19,25 17:2

17:6,16,19 18:3

19:11 20:13 22:7,14

22:22,25 23:18,24

24:3,8,9 29:15,19

31:2 32:3 38:12,15

38:23 39:3,6,9,10

40:9 41:16,18 42:2

42:18,19 43:7 50:5

50:8,12 51:4,9,18

51:20 52:4,20 53:1

57:3,6 58:8 59:13

61:16 62:9 63:20,21

63:24,24 64:9,25

67:13,17 70:14 72:4

72:12 73:7,10 74:1

74:9,12 82:10 86:5

tribe's 53:9

tribes 2:4 4:23 5:2

5:19 8:5,14 9:9,22

10:17 14:13 15:21

16:5 18:10,14,15,23

19:8 20:9 21:12,14

22:17 23:15 27:2

29:16 32:4,7,18

34:15 36:2 40:25

41:2,3,12,24 42:6,9

43:11 47:19 50:1,3

50:10,20,21,24

51:24 52:11 54:19

54:21,25 55:14

56:14,14,18 57:1,10

57:16,19,21,22

58:11,18,23 59:4,6

59:9,22,24 60:22,25

61:8,11 63:4,13

65:1,4,12,15 69:22

70:3,3 71:19 73:13

73:17 74:10 75:1,7

75:13,20 76:20,23

77:2,14,20 78:17,20

78:22 79:3 80:15,17

81:19 82:4,12,21

84:7,16 86:13 88:18

trick 85:10

tricky 52:11

tried 13:19 16:6

17:10 33:10 50:4

63:6,7 72:2,13

trier 45:13

trive 52:23

trouble 11:11

true 34:19,22 90:10

truly 32:9

trust 21:22,24 22:4

22:11

try 4:14 8:9 21:13

35:19 40:24 42:9

56:15 62:10

trying 4:9 11:3

16:22 19:18 29:12

29:23,23 31:7,16

40:20 42:4,7 43:9

47:18 51:13 53:23

55:2 60:1,23,24

63:5 64:5 65:24,25

68:9,14 70:9 74:7

74:14,20 76:1 81:3

84:23 87:21

tuesday 13:1 15:6

turn 6:17 7:18 8:23

29:4 49:15 64:3

69:14 88:3

tweak 48:3,5

tweaked 16:23

two 10:16 23:23

26:14 29:8 30:9

33:21 35:8 49:25

60:11 68:5,10 70:3

76:21 86:13

type 14:21 35:3

38:18 86:21

types 30:9 33:13

34:1 36:11

typewriting 90:9

typewritten 90:9

u

u.s. 59:23 60:18

ultimate 35:14

ultimately 53:9

umbrage 24:14

uncertain 47:9

understand 25:9

28:17 35:21 44:11

66:23 80:24 83:25

85:16 86:3

understanding 8:3

42:1

unfortunately 67:16

unidentified 3:5,6

40:11 41:10

united 59:23

unreasonable 40:8

unusual 65:14

unwilling 82:13

update 51:20

urge 87:16

usc 37:13

use 59:10 60:2

useful 72:18

utilize 8:14 51:15

v

valid 49:4

valuable 82:5 83:11

value 27:13,17

various 32:25 36:11

50:21

vegas 1:14 87:10

vendors 73:5 81:25

venetian 1:13

verify 16:17

versus 60:2

view 89:10

violate 76:9

violates 81:15

violating 41:21

violation 14:11

15:12 29:15,17,20

29:22 30:21,24 31:3

31:5,13,20 32:5,9

33:17 35:7 36:18

37:13 38:4,14 39:21

44:22 58:13 59:20

60:6 81:4,22

violations 14:12

36:19 37:4,23 38:5

41:13 59:8 75:17

vocabulary 42:9

voice 6:14

void 33:18

voluntary 29:24

30:2,7

w

wait 6:23 57:1,18,22

waited 57:9

waiting 57:4

waits 52:23,23

waiving 82:19

walking 34:16

walter 2:9,9 80:8,11

80:11,20,24 81:12

83:7,12,15,22 84:1

84:17

want 3:12,16 6:19

9:1 11:23 17:19

20:14,21 25:11,23

27:2 28:7,20,24

29:6 35:10,25 37:1

39:8 40:8,22 43:4

45:16 46:1 49:6

50:25 52:14 53:4

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800-227-8440 973-410-4040
56:5 57:17,20 59:10

60:7,11 61:22 62:18

63:10 64:6 65:3

66:5,10,15 68:15,20

71:9,9 73:20 76:23

77:6 78:9 79:17

88:1,20

wanted 27:5 32:1

34:24 35:3 66:9,12

66:20 71:1 75:12,19

78:2

wants 8:17 17:6

19:20

warned 56:21

warning 30:15,25

31:11

warranties 41:14

washington 47:6

way 3:20 4:13 9:18

17:9 21:12 35:14

38:9 43:1 46:2 49:6

60:22,25 67:7,23,24

72:20 73:16 74:7

79:15 86:12,13,13

87:24

ways 33:21 35:8

40:14 51:14 76:11

we've 4:8 7:14 8:4,7

9:6,14 10:12 13:8

13:16,22 14:5,7

15:23 16:4,25 19:15

22:21 26:25 27:2,22

28:14,15 30:11 31:2

31:14 34:7,11,18

38:8 44:15 48:3

49:12,24,25 50:3,4

51:2,6 55:9 58:18

59:4 61:12 67:7

71:7 73:12 74:16,23

75:23 76:1 79:22

84:11,15 85:13 88:6

webpage 83:13 84:3

website 6:14 11:11

11:20 12:12 70:20

87:15 89:10

websites 51:15

webster 27:11,11

weeds 36:10

week 4:17 10:20

16:2 53:18 54:2

55:8 87:10

weeks 68:17

weigh 65:12

welcome 4:5 78:16

went 15:1 43:20

69:19 80:3 84:22

whacked 42:6

whereof 90:19

wholly 64:13

wiggle 75:6

wilson 62:14

wish 88:19

wishes 85:6

witness 90:19

witnesses 43:18

wonder 27:13

word 13:16 59:10

worded 41:12

words 24:6 43:24

work 11:17 19:2,18

30:3 31:7 48:9

50:20,22 51:21 52:2

65:9 68:20 74:20

worked 49:22

working 8:2,16 16:4

19:1,16 21:11 29:25

32:11 40:6 42:16

51:16 53:3 56:20

57:11 60:14 61:15

68:16

works 82:7

world 29:3 35:24

36:23

worth 77:15

wrap 76:1

write 40:5

writing 45:13

written 11:10 17:3

34:3 89:12

wrong 43:25 62:20

wrote 46:16 86:11

y

yeah 59:16

year 13:11,12 14:6

38:15 69:20 76:23

77:16

years 13:25 17:17

20:11 46:13 49:3,22

51:22 54:21 81:22

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