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 3 2018 NATIONAL INDIAN GAMING COMMISSION MEETING

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 TRIBAL CONSULTATION SESSION

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 WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2018

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 1:00 p.m.

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 8 POTAWATOMI BINGO & CASINO

 9 HARMONY ROOM

 10 1611 WEST CANAL STREET

 11 MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN 53233

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 1 A P P E A R A N C E S

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 3 CHAIRMAN JONODEV CHAUDHURI

 4 VICE CHAIR KATHRYN ISOM-CLAUSE

 5 COMMISSIONER E. SEQUOYAH SIMERMEYER

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 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

 2 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. Good

 3 afternoon. Before we begin our formal

 4 consultation, we always open with a blessing. And

 5 we're very honored to have a blessing for us today

 6 from Forest County Gaming Commission Chairman,

 7 Mr. Ken George, Jr. Mr. George, if you'd like to

 8 lead us.

 9 (Blessing.)

 10 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Before we introduce

 11 ourselves, are there any -- it's just truly an

 12 honor to be here at Forest County. And always give

 13 thanks to being allowed into the homelands. Any

 14 tribal nation. We're also happy to be among so

 15 many tribes from the area, whether it be Menominee,

 16 Ho-Chunk, Stockbridge, Oneida or Ojibwa bands.

 17 Are there any additional statements from

 18 the host nation before we begin?

 19 MR. GEORGE: No, sir.

 20 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Again, thank you so

 21 very much for that blessing. And look forward to

 22 moving forward today with open hearts and open

 23 minds.

 24 My name's Jonodev Chaudhuri, Muscogee

 25 Creek Bear Clan. I'm also East Indian. And very
 4

 1 honored to serve as chairman of the National Indian

 2 Gaming Commission.

 3 I'm going to turn it over to my fellow

 4 commissioners to introduce ourselves before I get

 5 into a little bit of housekeeping about today's

 6 discussion. So I'll turn it over to our vice

 7 chair.

 8 VICE CHAIR ISOM-CLAUSE: Thank you. Good

 9 afternoon. I'm Kathryn Isom-Clause. I'm vice

 10 chair of the Commission. Can you hear me all

 11 right? I'm Taos Pueblo, but actually grew up in

 12 Michigan. So it's kind of nice being back here.

 13 Feels like home. Appreciate being by the Great

 14 Lakes.

 15 So I'd like to echo the thanks. Thank

 16 you for hosting us here. This is an incredible

 17 eagle feather. It's an incredible honor. Just,

 18 you know, a little bit speechless about it. Thank

 19 you so much for the honor.

 20 The tribal consultation for us is a means

 21 for us to listen to tribes, to the regulators who

 22 are primary regulators, and also to honor the

 23 government-to-government relationship that we have

 24 between the federal government and tribes. It's a

 25 time for us to present our ideas for ways that we
 5

 1 think we can make the Agency and industry more

 2 efficient, but it's also a time for us to listen to

 3 you. And so we hope that we'll have some really

 4 good dialogue later on.

 5 This round of our consultation sessions

 6 is following up on some previous sessions that

 7 we've had as this current commission. We're hoping

 8 that these are some kind of topics that will

 9 reflect our initiatives and kind of bring us full

 10 circle as a commission.

 11 While we are limited with our current

 12 commission, it's not to say we plan on any policy

 13 changes or any other change in our direction. In

 14 fact, we plan on being very stable moving forward.

 15 We just released our strategic plan.

 16 That's on our website right now. And you'll see it

 17 has our current initiatives that we've been working

 18 on this entire time as a commission. Those are

 19 protecting against gamesmanships on the backs of

 20 tribes, developing outreach to small and rural

 21 gaming establishments, staying ahead of the

 22 technology curve, we're putting a strong workforce,

 23 as well as internal operational excellence. And so

 24 you'll see that's for the years 2018 through 2022.

 25 So I do encourage you all to take a look at that.
 6

 1 Besides that, we're just really looking

 2 forward to hearing your feedback. And thank you,

 3 again, for all being here.

 4 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: Good afternoon.

 5 I'm Sequoyah Simermeyer. I'm Coharie. My tribe's

 6 community is in eastern North Carolina. And I'm

 7 the third member of the Commission.

 8 I want to join my colleagues in saying,

 9 Thank you, Chairman George. It was -- that's quite

 10 an honor to receive. And we're very -- I join my

 11 colleagues in saying we're very thankful for that.

 12 And thanks to the Potawatomi community for hosting

 13 this meeting in this facility today.

 14 I also want to just briefly share a bit

 15 about some of my perspectives in terms of my role

 16 in the Commission, how I approach the work along

 17 with my colleagues.

 18 One of the kind of important

 19 considerations for me is in looking at the intent

 20 and meaning behind the Indian Gaming Regulatory

 21 Act. It not only provided the federal framework

 22 for regulation, but its policy objectives have been

 23 important in growing what's become an over

 24 $31 billion industry that's benefitting Indian

 25 people and making lives better in Indian Country.
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 1 Secondly, it's important for me in the

 2 work that I'm doing on the Commission is just

 3 really rely on the partnerships that are important,

 4 both within the Agency we have institutional

 5 knowledge that exists there with our dozens of

 6 auditors, compliance officers, financial analysts,

 7 attorneys, but also the over 6,000 members of the

 8 Indian Country's regulatory community, too. It's

 9 important to making informed decisions and more

 10 defensible federal actions.

 11 And lastly, it's important, I think, in

 12 the work we do as a commission, and my colleagues

 13 share in being diplomatic in our decision-making

 14 processes in honoring intergovernmental

 15 relationships that tribes establish in order to set

 16 the path for and achieve the goals for their own

 17 people. That's a vision only tribes can institute.

 18 So it's an important thing that we, whether it's

 19 through consultation or through other types of

 20 decision-making, that we seek that feedback and

 21 consideration and are diplomatic and have an

 22 understanding of how our actions are impacting that

 23 intergovernmental tool for tribes.

 24 So thank you all for being here. And

 25 thanks for the opportunity to engage in
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 1 consultation, and to jump-start the process at the

 2 federal level. Thank you.

 3 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you fellow

 4 commissioners.

 5 So we have topics to discuss today, as

 6 Vice Chair mentioned. These topics flow out of

 7 consultations and discussions that we've had with

 8 Indian Country as a full commission for a number of

 9 years. We're all committed to ensure and continue

 10 stable operations at NIGC, and today's consultation

 11 is just a continuation of that.

 12 While some of us may have terms that are

 13 ending soon, I think I can speak for us all in

 14 saying that we're proud to note that every step

 15 that we've taken as an agency has been done

 16 hand-in-hand with tribes with every effort to have

 17 our actions flow out of meaningful, active

 18 consultation. And so consultation for us means

 19 working with our partners before we ever put pen to

 20 paper. Although some of the topics we are going to

 21 be hearing about today have some draft language

 22 that we've already circulated for discussion, that

 23 draft language was developed through coordination

 24 and discussions with our partners.

 25 I understand that people may have travel
 9

 1 arrangements. We're scheduled to go through

 2 3 o'clock today. No shame in finishing a little

 3 early or a little bit late. But if anybody needs

 4 to make a statement on the record before getting on

 5 the road, we're happy to be flexible

 6 structure-wise. Just feel free to let us know and

 7 we're happy to get you on the record.

 8 Does anybody need to get a statement on

 9 the record before getting on the road right now?

 10 Okay.

 11 MR. FUNMAKER: I'd like to make a

 12 statement.

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Sure.

 14 So that others may benefit from our

 15 discussions, these -- our discussions today will be

 16 transcribed. And so for the benefit of the

 17 transcriptionist, if we could just say our name and

 18 tribal affiliation.

 19 MR. FUNMAKER: Yeah, my name is Gary

 20 Funmaker. I'm from the Ho-Chunk Nation. I'm one

 21 of the tribal elders. I hit that golden number of

 22 70. I moved to Milwaukee back in 1952 when they

 23 relocated Native American people to the city for

 24 acculturation. So I used to crawl up on 27th

 25 Street viaduct, and we used to get those baby
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 1 pigeons and take them down to Wisconsin Avenue and

 2 sell them to the Chinese. So I've been in this

 3 town when they won the World Series in '57.

 4 One thing that I noticed, and I don't

 5 know whether I tried to get ahold of the Indian

 6 Health Service, but is the lack of senior care on a

 7 lot of our reservations, including Ho-Chunk. You

 8 know what I mean by senior care? Senior citizens.

 9 We send our people downtown. And I know that NIGA

 10 talks about the health education and welfare.

 11 Now, I think that we should be encouraged

 12 or encouraging the tribes to take a percentage of

 13 their money, or if not the percentage of the money

 14 that you get, and make sure that the seniors are

 15 taken care of on the reservations, which is part of

 16 our culture, correct? Can I get an amen to that?

 17 Is that right?

 18 Every time I hear a politician run, he's

 19 talking about the elders and the veterans. I'm a

 20 Vietnam veteran. I served '64 to '67. And this

 21 fellow Ho-Chunk member over there's also a Vietnam

 22 veteran.

 23 But that's what I want to encourage that

 24 we look at how can we get some funding to the

 25 tribes. And of course, they'll come up with their
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 1 part, but for senior care. If somebody did an

 2 analysis on that, you'd probably find a nominal

 3 amount of tribes that have it. I know that

 4 Michigan has got a very aggressive one down in

 5 southern Michigan. And I think in Arizona, they

 6 have a -- kind of like a little community for their

 7 elders. So you're going to have people that can

 8 take care of them for their medical needs,

 9 preservation of the language. All those things

 10 could be dovetailed by creating these communities

 11 for our elders. And, you know, let them freely

 12 speak in their own language. If they want to eat

 13 some wongchick (phonetic), which means Indian food,

 14 we'd have people come in and prepare that food.

 15 But they'd feel at home.

 16 And then if we would hook them up using

 17 either Kindles or, you know, the Skype so that they

 18 can speak to their relatives maybe that are in

 19 hospitals or wherever in the United States. We

 20 don't have to fly anymore. We can communicate

 21 anywhere we wish.

 22 So that's my heart, that's my prayer.

 23 And I thank you for -- the gentleman for sharing

 24 that song. It was from his heart. And it really

 25 touched my heart. And I know that when we talk
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 1 about our elders, we talk about them with great

 2 respect. You know, they created a lot of things

 3 that we have right here. That's why we're sitting

 4 here today because somebody paid the dues. You

 5 know, including the people in the '70s that marched

 6 for self-determination. That's why we're here.

 7 So I back you up completely. And I'll be

 8 holding you guys up in prayer, Chairman and the

 9 board. And so thank you for your time. Gary

 10 Funmaker, Ho-Chunk Nation.

 11 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much,

 12 Mr. Funmaker. Brief comment: That's one of the

 13 things that I love about Indian Country and Indian

 14 Gaming. You see efforts across the board to figure

 15 out ways to take care of one another that you don't

 16 see in other commercial -- in commercial

 17 activities. So thank you so much for those

 18 comments.

 19 MR. FUNMAKER: Thank you, sir.

 20 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: So the Commission's

 21 introduced themselves. I'm going to go around the

 22 table. The way we have our topics structured

 23 today, we'll hear a brief presentation from one of

 24 our subject matter experts. And then we'll open it

 25 up for discussion.
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 1 Just so we know who all's in the room,

 2 I'm just going have to our presenters introduce

 3 themselves. But I do want to make the point that

 4 we have a lot of folks from NIGC, including Mr. Ben

 5 Buck, our compliance officer, and Ms. Linda Durbin,

 6 our regional director, who helped put today's

 7 consultation on, in conjunction with Forest County,

 8 made all the arrangements. Many, many thanks for

 9 our team on the ground.

 10 But if we could introduce ourselves

 11 briefly so that the tribal representatives and the

 12 audience know who we are. So those of us at the

 13 table.

 14 MR. THOMAS: I'm Dustin Thomas. I'm the

 15 director of compliance.

 16 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And your nation?

 17 MR. THOMAS: I'm from the Mohawk Nation.

 18 MR. KAQUATOSH: Gerald Kaquatosh,

 19 governmental affairs. I'm Menominee.

 20 MS. LAWSON: Jennifer Lawson. I'm from

 21 the Office of General Counsel. I'm the regional

 22 attorney with the Office of General Counsel.

 23 MS. THOMAS: Good afternoon. Christina

 24 Thomas. I'm the chief of staff for the National

 25 Indian Gaming Commission. I'm also a member of the
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 1 Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwa from Minnesota, so I'm

 2 happy to be back in the Midwest.

 3 MS. LEE: Good afternoon. My name is

 4 Yvonne Lee, director of finance for the NIGC.

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Sometimes, depending

 6 on the size of the audience, we'll have everybody

 7 in the room introduce themselves. I don't want to

 8 put anybody on the spot. Anybody that wants to get

 9 on the record about who you represent, feel free to

 10 now. Otherwise, in the course of Q and A or

 11 discussion, please feel free to mention your name,

 12 tribal affiliation. And if you're here

 13 representing a tribe other than your own, please

 14 let us know that as well.

 15 Anybody want to get on the record and --

 16 maybe we can just go around the room.

 17 MR. YOUNG: Good afternoon, everybody.

 18 My name is Mark Young, vice chair of the Forest

 19 County Potawatomi Gaming Commission. Tribal member

 20 also.

 21 MR. GEORGE: Good afternoon. Kenneth

 22 George, Jr., Forest County Potawatomi Gaming

 23 Commission Chairman. Also, a tribal member of the

 24 Forest County Potawatomi Tribe.

 25 MR. NICHOLS: Good afternoon. Jason
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 1 Nichols. Executive director for the Forest County

 2 Potawatomi Gaming Commission. And a proud member

 3 of the Muscogee Creek Nation.

 4 MS. TERRIO: Good afternoon. Terrie

 5 Terrio. Stockbridge-Munsee Tribe. And I'm also

 6 the tribal treasurer there.

 7 MR. MATHERLY: Andrew Matherly. Spokane

 8 tribal member. I chair the Spokane Tribal Gaming

 9 Commission. And I appreciate the Commission. And

 10 thank you to the Potawatomi for allowing me to be

 11 here.

 12 MR. MUDD: Good morning? Good afternoon.

 13 Robert Mudd. I'm the executive director of

 14 business for the Ho-Chunk Nation and also a tribal

 15 member. And I'm also a veteran, like Gary over

 16 there, and pushing 70 here. It's a pleasure to be

 17 here and I appreciate your time.

 18 MS. GARRETT: Good afternoon. My name's

 19 the Carolyn Garrett. Legislative attorney for the

 20 Ho-Chunk Nation. Thank you.

 21 MS. LIAZUK: Good afternoon, and welcome

 22 to Wisconsin. I'm Angie Liazuk and I'm from

 23 Ho-Chunk Nation. Also a tribal member and sit on

 24 the Gaming Commission.

 25 MS. BLASCHKE: Good afternoon. I'm
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 1 Corinna Blaschke. I'm a tribal member of the

 2 Ho-Chunk Nation and also the chair for the Ho-Chunk

 3 Nation Gaming Commission.

 4 MS. SMITH: Rae Smith, director of

 5 compliance, White Earth Reservation Business

 6 Committee.

 7 MS. MASON: (Native language) I'm Tara

 8 Mason, secretary/treasurer for the White Earth

 9 Reservation Business Committee.

 10 MS. CHAPMAN-CHEOLEIER: My name's Crystal

 11 Chapman-Cheoleier. I'm the secretary of the

 12 Menominee Nation and I'm the chair with the

 13 Menominee Gaming. I was hoping to sneak out. I

 14 had it on my calendar it went to 5:00. I hear you

 15 guys want to get out of here, too, so -- thanks for

 16 the table.

 17 MR. DINISHEK: I'm John Dinishek,

 18 business associate for Mr. Funmaker. I represent

 19 the Ho-Chunk Nation.

 20 MR. TAYLOR: Jeff Taylor, St. Croix --

 21 chairman of the St. Croix Gaming Commission and a

 22 tribal member from there.

 23 MR. SCHREIBER: Good afternoon. James

 24 Schreiber, staff member for Forest County

 25 Potawatomi Gaming Commission.
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 1 MR. DAVID: Hello. I'm Billy David with

 2 Bo-Co-Pa Associates out of Oregon Klamath tribal

 3 member. And affiliated with the Forest County

 4 Potawatomi Gaming Commission.

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. Again, I want

 6 to thank everybody for taking the time to join us

 7 today. I know folks have driven in from all

 8 directions. We're going to try and keep this on a

 9 pretty steady pace and make every effort to get any

 10 comments, concerns or questions on the record that

 11 anybody may have.

 12 Yes, Mr. Funmaker?

 13 MR. FUNMAKER: I think my friend John

 14 there felt a little uncomfortable and -- well,

 15 maybe over here, because he was saying that he was

 16 representing the Ho-Chunk Nation. And I think he

 17 can speak for himself just real quick, if you may,

 18 five minutes or whatever you want to say what you

 19 want to do here, John.

 20 MR. DINISHEK: Thank you, Mr. Funmaker.

 21 I'm here to learn a little bit about

 22 Gaming Commission's policy and an interest in

 23 compliance. My background is in anti-money

 24 laundering, anti-terrorist financing, and fraud.

 25 And work with a lot of financial service companies,
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 1 banks, corporations, casinos, and other folks as

 2 far as being able to identify, track, report on,

 3 and protect themselves from that type of risk

 4 compliance area.

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you.

 6 So before turning it over to our chief of

 7 staff for some additional housekeeping, I do want

 8 to, again, thank everybody for being here today.

 9 This is a nation-to-nation consultation. So at all

 10 points, we will strive to defer to tribal leaders,

 11 tribal regulators, and make sure that all comments

 12 and concerns and questions from tribal leaders,

 13 tribal regulators, are on the record. I understand

 14 that there are other representatives in the room,

 15 but I want us to make sure that tribal leadership,

 16 tribal regulators, get every opportunity to say

 17 whatever needs to be said today before we hear from

 18 others.

 19 So with that, I do want to say one thing

 20 very briefly. I'm fighting a cold. So if I don't

 21 hear something, and if either I or the

 22 transcriptionist don't hear something, please bear

 23 with us if we get out the old tin horn and put it

 24 up to our ears.

 25 I'll turn it over to our chief of staff.
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 1 MS. THOMAS: Thanks, Chairman. So just

 2 some brief housekeeping stuff before we get started

 3 on the topics that we're going to discuss today.

 4 As the Chairman said, we're scheduled to

 5 go to 3:00 p.m. today. And as he always says,

 6 there's no crime in finishing early. But we'll

 7 stick around until we get all the comments on the

 8 record for each of the topics.

 9 Just a reminder again: This is

 10 transcribed. So if you do have a comment for the

 11 record, please introduce yourself and your tribal

 12 affiliation before entering your comments so that

 13 the transcriptionist can get it.

 14 We have three topics that we'll be

 15 discussing today. The first one is management

 16 contract revisions. We have draft discussion

 17 changes to the regulations that were part of the

 18 copies of the packets that we provided for today.

 19 Second topic is audit submissions. It's kind of an

 20 open-ended topic. We don't have anything drafted

 21 on this yet. We're just looking for feedback on.

 22 And the third one is the management and sole

 23 proprietary interest draft definitions that'll be

 24 discussed. In between each topic, we'll be

 25 stopping and getting comments for the record.
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 1 This is our final consultation. This is

 2 the sixth consultation that we've done on these

 3 three topics. Our comment period on the drafts is

 4 February 28th, 2018.

 5 And with that, I will hand it back over

 6 to you, Chair.

 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay. Thank you,

 8 Ms. Thomas.

 9 Before we turn it over to Yvonne Lee, any

 10 other comments from the Commission? Okay. So I'll

 11 turn it over to Director Lee now for our first

 12 topic.

 13 MS. LEE: Thank you, Chairman.

 14 Under IGRA and current NIGC regulations,

 15 tribes wanting to engage a third party to manage

 16 their operations are required to enter into a

 17 management agreement with the third party that must

 18 be approved by the Chairman of the National Indian

 19 Gaming Commission. Following the NIGC's 2017

 20 consultation sessions, the Commission carefully

 21 reviewed its regulations, and the Agency's internal

 22 procedures for reviewing and approving management

 23 contracts. As a result of that review, and based

 24 on comments received during the consultations, the

 25 Commission believes that changes to our management
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 1 contract regulations will improve the efficiency of

 2 the contract review process and ensure consistency

 3 with IGRA's requirements regarding term limits.

 4 I will provide some background on this

 5 topic, including current regulations, Agency

 6 concerns, and the Commission's proposed amendments

 7 to the regulations.

 8 The Chair of the NIGC may only approve a

 9 management contract if it does not exceed a term of

 10 five years, or in rare circumstances, seven years.

 11 NIGC regulations reflect that stipulation and

 12 management contracts are not approved unless they

 13 comply with all requirements of IGRA, including

 14 term limits.

 15 After management contracts have been

 16 approved, tribes and their management contractors

 17 may amend their contracts by following the

 18 streamlined procedures for review and approval of

 19 contract amendments found in NIGC Regulations 25

 20 C.F.R. Part 535. Part 535 provides an expedited

 21 process within which background investigations are

 22 only required if the third-party individuals and/or

 23 entities responsible for the management contract

 24 have changed, and no new business plan or updated

 25 financial information is required. The expedited
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 1 process is designed to allow the parties to sustain

 2 their relationship in a dynamic business

 3 environment while maintaining the integrity of the

 4 Chair's initial management contract review and

 5 approval.

 6 The safeguards found in NIGC's management

 7 contract review process serve to assure IGRA's

 8 primary policy goals are met, including protecting

 9 Indian gaming and ensuring a tribe is the primary

 10 beneficiary of its gaming operation.

 11 A thorough review of past practice

 12 revealed that parties, using Part 535's expedited

 13 process, have submitted amendments to the initially

 14 approved contracts that have extended the term of

 15 the approved contract by an additional one to five

 16 years, resulting in a contract that extends beyond

 17 the explicit term limits of IGRA.

 18 Thus, the Commission believes it is

 19 important to update regulations to maintain IGRA's

 20 mandate.

 21 The proposed amendments clarify the

 22 regulations by explicitly noting that amendments

 23 that extend the approved management agreement

 24 beyond the term limits permitted by IGRA, which is

 25 five or seven years, will be reviewed under the
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 1 full requirements of a new management contract

 2 under Part 531.

 3 So, for example, if an approved contract

 4 with a five-year term is nearing the end of its

 5 term, and the parties are happy with the

 6 relationship and simply wish to extend it for an

 7 additional five years, they may do so, but it may

 8 not be reviewed as an amendment. Because IGRA

 9 limits contract terms to five or seven years, the

 10 Chairman will review the agreement under Part 531,

 11 and the entire requisite information that 531

 12 requires must be submitted.

 13 For another example, though, if a

 14 management contract had a one-year term, and the

 15 parties wanted to amend the agreement to extend it

 16 for an additional year, for a total term of two

 17 years, the Chair would review the amendment under

 18 Part 535 because the term limit would still be

 19 within the statutory limit of five or seven years.

 20 The Commission understands this change

 21 may affect the timing and expense of updating

 22 background investigations for making suitability

 23 determination of management contractors. And

 24 independent of the changes discussed above, the

 25 Commission received comments during the last round
 24

 1 of consultation that the background investigation

 2 process was time-consuming and expensive. As a

 3 result, the Commission has done a thorough review

 4 of its background information process, and is

 5 proposing changes to our internal procedures to

 6 make the process more efficient, thereby reducing

 7 the cost of investigations.

 8 Under the new process, NIGC staff will

 9 review the background investigation applications

 10 and divide them into different investigative groups

 11 based on the level of risk. This process will

 12 allow the Agency staff to focus their investigative

 13 resources on the most vital individuals and

 14 entities. This replaces a one-size-fits-all model

 15 that scrutinizes all applicants the same.

 16 For example, under the current process,

 17 the top direct financial interest goes through the

 18 same background investigation as the smallest

 19 indirect financial interest. But under the new

 20 process, entities and individuals with a direct

 21 financial interest, holding the highest level of

 22 risk to the tribe, will have a more in-depth

 23 background investigation completed versus those

 24 entities or individuals who have an indirect

 25 financial interest.
 25

 1 In addition, the Commission has proposed

 2 changing the individuals and entities that are

 3 required to submit background applications under

 4 the regulations to those that have ten percent or

 5 greater financial interest. This proposed change

 6 should significantly reduce the costs to the

 7 management contractors in submitting full

 8 applications on smaller investors. Further, this

 9 proposed change will also better align the Agency's

 10 requirements with other regulatory agencies.

 11 This change should not increase the risk

 12 to tribal gaming as the Commission will retain

 13 discretionary authority to conduct background

 14 investigations on the owners with even the smallest

 15 interests, who may pose a threat to the industry.

 16 In addition, the Commission is proposing

 17 a regulatory change to clarify the "reduced scope

 18 of investigation" provision to reduce the burden of

 19 background investigations for those who qualify.

 20 To further reduce the time and cost of

 21 background investigations, the Agency will no

 22 longer use the Office of Personnel Management, or

 23 OPM, to conduct part of the background

 24 investigations. Instead, we will process

 25 fingerprint checks through FBI and perform credit
 26

 1 checks through other, more efficient alternatives.

 2 Lastly, to reduce the upfront financial

 3 burden and timing concerns, the proposed amendments

 4 to the regulation removes the requirement of a

 5 deposit before the background investigations begin.

 6 Instead, the Agency will bill the management

 7 contractors regularly as the investigation

 8 proceeds.

 9 I would now like to turn it back over to

 10 the Commission to lead a discussion. Thank you.

 11 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Ms. Lee.

 12 So for additional background, I'll turn

 13 it over to my fellow commissioners.

 14 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: Thanks, Chair.

 15 I'll just make three brief points. One about the

 16 motivations for efficiency. Secondly about the

 17 importance for making a defensible interpretation

 18 of the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. And last,

 19 just the importance of understanding what the

 20 impacts of this might have in how tribes work in

 21 the regulatory setting or in their operational

 22 setting.

 23 The management contract review process,

 24 it's conducted by the Chairman, not the full

 25 Commission. And unless there's an appeal, it's
 27

 1 rare for the full Commission hears an appeal from

 2 the Chair's denial of a management contract.

 3 However, as a full Commission, we're hoping that

 4 some of these proposed changes will provide more

 5 efficiency to help avoid backlogs in the review

 6 process, and improve our stewardship of the Agency

 7 and how we handle our resources in looking at these

 8 issues.

 9 It's not intended to create unnecessary

 10 burdens on tribes that are seeking to develop and

 11 to maintain their partnerships. Specifically by

 12 not using OPM, removing the deposit requirements,

 13 creating tiers for the background work that the

 14 Chair uses to make this determination, it often

 15 leads to more efficient, less costly, less

 16 burdensome review process.

 17 Finally, it's important to me that these

 18 changes don't exceed what the Indian Gaming

 19 Regulatory Act requires for management contract

 20 terms in any changes in the action, how we've been

 21 doing things, is important to keep in mind how we

 22 approach this proposal.

 23 So it'll be helpful to hear what works

 24 for tribes in how they approach partnerships from

 25 management and nonmanagement professional service
 28

 1 type agreements as well, and to hear more about

 2 ideas about the impact this might have in the

 3 process. So thanks.

 4 VICE CHAIR ISOM-CLAUSE: This topic has

 5 been particularly active, I think, of the three, so

 6 I'm really looking forward to the discussion.

 7 And so I won't repeat too much, but I

 8 just did want to highlight that the tier approach

 9 that Ms. Lee mentioned and Commissioner Simermeyer

 10 had mentioned as well is one that we really think

 11 could be incredible savings of time and resources

 12 that would benefit both Agency and anyone coming

 13 into contact with a management contract who is

 14 waiting on us.

 15 We don't believe it will cause any issues

 16 with the integrity of the background investigation.

 17 Our proposal is that it's just more of a risk-based

 18 and kind of a smarter approach rather than just a

 19 one-size-fits-all. So that's the kind of thing we

 20 like to think about as an Agency. And we're really

 21 happy with our team for coming up with this

 22 proposal. With that, back over.

 23 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, Vice

 24 Chair. Thank you, Commissioner.

 25 Just want to echo everything my
 29

 1 colleagues said. I know there aren't a lot of

 2 management agreements represented in the room. I

 3 see Spokane here. And I think there may be one or

 4 two other management agreements. But this ties

 5 into a couple of other large themes that I think

 6 represent our direction as an agency. One, as has

 7 already been mentioned, good governance. So we're

 8 all about streamlining where we can, but still

 9 doing our job under IGRA. So the governance aspect

 10 of this is important.

 11 But too, one of our key initiatives at

 12 the Agency is protecting against gamesmanship on

 13 the backs of tribes. IGRA requires that the status

 14 of tribes as the primary regulators of their

 15 operations be respected and protected at all

 16 points, as well as the role of tribes as the

 17 primary beneficiaries of their operations be

 18 respected and protected at all points.

 19 One of the ways that we do our job at

 20 NIGC, you know, one of the hooks that we have is as

 21 we strive to protect against third-party threats to

 22 tribal assets or operations, we work through our

 23 management agreement approval process to uphold our

 24 fiduciary duty that's laid out for us in IGRA. So

 25 the approval of management agreements have kind of
 30

 1 two facets to them. One is looking at the contract

 2 itself. But the second part is doing up-to-date

 3 backgrounding of key officials.

 4 So the idea that we're looking at ways to

 5 stay truer to IGRA's five to seven-year management

 6 agreement period helps us ensure that we're

 7 relying -- we're not relying on stale

 8 backgrounding. You know, the alternative is if you

 9 have repeated amendments or extensions of

 10 agreements, at some point the period of time

 11 between backgrounding, and you run the risk of

 12 having too much time passing.

 13 So this is a way for us to think about

 14 ways to clarify the rules, hopefully bring clarity

 15 to the process, streamline and facilitate economic

 16 development on the ground, but at the same time,

 17 make sure that we're doing our job at NIGC.

 18 So that's a little background -- a little

 19 bit more background from the Commission. I

 20 appreciate Director Lee's perspective. We're going

 21 to turn it over to the floor now for any comments,

 22 questions, discussions. And we'll really -- I

 23 don't want the process to get in the way of

 24 conversation or of discussion. So we'll also have

 25 a catchall at the end of today's consultation if we
 31

 1 miss anything. But I turn it over to the floor

 2 now. Please feel free to raise your hand and our

 3 regional director will get the microphone over to

 4 you.

 5 MR. MATHERLY: Andrew Matherly, Spokane

 6 Tribe.

 7 So the Spokane Tribe, you know, we do

 8 have a management contract. This is a second

 9 go-round with this specific company.

 10 First off, you know, I think the Spokane

 11 Tribe, we agree that clarity is needed beyond the

 12 five or seven. And I'll just speak from

 13 experience. With this management company before,

 14 we did the five years and then it was extended one

 15 year beyond that. But the tribe itself wanted to

 16 go another year, and the Gaming Commission itself

 17 said, We're not going to approve it.

 18 I guess part of some of the things I see

 19 personally is the declination as it applies to

 20 development projects. And I'll use our tribe as an

 21 example, is that when we're creating a new

 22 facility, you have a management company in the

 23 tribe that brings forward to my commission body

 24 they want a management contract. Well, you don't

 25 have a casino. You can't submit nothing to NIGC.
 32

 1 So I do appreciate NIGC, that fact,

 2 because they assisted me in saying we're going to

 3 hold off because once we start that, that five-year

 4 time period starts. But the questions I have is

 5 the development portion of the day-to-day say of,

 6 you know, we -- because as we identify primary

 7 management officials or key employees that have

 8 those day-to-day operation decisions, you don't in

 9 a development declination, so --

 10 The tribe, we do agree that if amendments

 11 are considered for new contracts, then that we

 12 agree that increased efficiency in the review

 13 process are necessary.

 14 The ten percent, as you know with our

 15 agreement, we have is a sole proprietor. What you

 16 run into a problem with that is is that that sole

 17 proprietor has people that work under him. So what

 18 we've done is if they're going to be on our

 19 property, we're going to license them. They're not

 20 going to the back of the house, they're not making

 21 any decisions. So we took the stance in our Gaming

 22 Commission that you're going to be licensed as a

 23 PMO. And it did slow the process down for a lot of

 24 their staff, but that's just how we're going to

 25 operate.
 33

 1 We support the concept of background

 2 investigation tiers. And billing the management

 3 contractors for background costs rather than

 4 requiring deposits. NIGC's really familiar with

 5 our management contract, and it was rigorous, you

 6 know, but we do appreciate the process. It is our

 7 job to, as you mentioned earlier, Chairman, is to

 8 the tribe being be the sole beneficiary that

 9 protect our interest. And so I guess as a

 10 regulator, that's something that I've spent a lot

 11 of my time educating our tribal government and

 12 other entities because it's -- we're responsible

 13 for it.

 14 So thank you.

 15 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you for

 16 those comments. I'm going to look over at Yvonne's

 17 way. I'm not sure if there's anything you want to

 18 weigh in on the development side of things.

 19 But, you know, there are two parts of

 20 what we're proposing. One's the regulation change.

 21 The second part is the administrative kind of

 22 operational changes that's kind of internal to the

 23 Agency. So that's where the background and the

 24 backgrounding tweaks and the three-tiered process

 25 comes into play. That doesn't necessarily --
 34

 1 that's not necessarily in the regulation. That's

 2 an internal administrative change. But both are

 3 designed to really uphold our responsibilities,

 4 while at the same time recognizing that time is --

 5 time is money when it comes to these agreements.

 6 Trying to shave off what we can, where we can, but

 7 at the same time, we would be -- we'd be ignoring

 8 our responsibilities if we didn't do our part to

 9 make sure that we were doing adequate backgrounding

 10 as well.

 11 So thank you so much for those comments.

 12 Yes, sir.

 13 MR. FUNMAKER: Gary Funmaker again.

 14 Ho-Chunk Nation tribal member. I'm not necessarily

 15 an official. But my background -- I was just

 16 thinking here, my background is way back in the

 17 early '80s, I was assigned to be a commissioner for

 18 our Ho-Chunk housing. And then I was assigned the

 19 designation of being secretary/treasurer. And then

 20 while I was with the Bureau, I was the

 21 secretary/treasurer of the Federal Indian Service

 22 Employee Union. And -- but my thoughts here, I

 23 want to lean on the Chairman a little bit here.

 24 I notice that you are out there in

 25 Washington. And I read the information on that,
 35

 1 where that tribe was having some trouble. I don't

 2 know whether it was enrollment or whatever. But

 3 then I noticed that the BIA jumped in behind you.

 4 And I was saying, Well, jeez, my experience with

 5 the Bureau is that they never jumped in to anything

 6 political with the tribe.

 7 At the same time, one of your

 8 representatives from NIGA from St. Paul gave me a

 9 call on an issue that I've had with Ho-Chunk Nation

 10 concerning one of our officials that could be

 11 deemed a felon. And she informed me that NIGA does

 12 not interfere with tribal politics. But then,

 13 again, I saw you out in the state of Washington

 14 where the Bureau even backed you up, stating, you

 15 know, some type of timeline, you know, backing up

 16 what you are saying to that tribe out in

 17 Washington.

 18 I was just wondering, you know, if you

 19 could clarify that for me as a tribal elder. Thank

 20 you, sir.

 21 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much,

 22 Mr. Funmaker. Absolutely. We defer to tribal

 23 decision-making whenever and wherever possible.

 24 Not only is that good policy, that's the law. When

 25 we talk about tribes being the primary regulators
 36

 1 of their operations, that that's just the law.

 2 What happened in the case that I think

 3 you're referring to, it's still kind of an open

 4 case, so I don't want to get too much into it. But

 5 I can talk about portions that are part of the

 6 public record.

 7 When we look to take action, and for this

 8 one, I better say when I look to take action,

 9 because any enforcement actions that the Chair

 10 takes are appealable to the full commission. So

 11 I've got to be a little careful about saying "we"

 12 versus "I" on this one; although, I don't like

 13 saying "I" too much.

 14 When I took action there, did everything

 15 I could to make it clear that we weren't weighing

 16 in on the governance matter because I think it is

 17 good policy to defer as much as possible to the

 18 internal sensibilities, internal processes, and

 19 internal policies of any sovereign nation. What we

 20 were weighing in was a number of things, including

 21 whether or not we could ensure that the sole

 22 proprietary interest of the tribes' operations was

 23 being protected.

 24 And so that's -- that's an important

 25 distinction. We're not kingmakers. As a matter of
 37

 1 policy, I don't think it makes sense for the

 2 federal government to be kingmakers when it comes

 3 to sovereign nations. But we do have a

 4 responsibility -- you know, IGRA may be flawed in

 5 many ways, but it says what it says. We have a

 6 responsibility to make sure that tribes, and not

 7 third parties, not -- not even individuals, but

 8 tribes are the ones benefitting from their

 9 operations.

 10 So that was the distinction. But we do

 11 steer a hand whenever and wherever possible from

 12 getting involved in internal tribal politics when

 13 we recognize that, as sovereign nations, sovereign

 14 nations are free to govern themselves pursuant to

 15 their constitutions or traditions in ways that are

 16 appropriate for that nation.

 17 So I don't know if that helps with a

 18 little background, but that's -- and I, you know --

 19 that matter is still ongoing, but it wasn't a

 20 matter of injecting ourselves into internal

 21 politics. I can guarantee we take every effort not

 22 to do that.

 23 MR. FUNMAKER: Thank you for that answer.

 24 The reason I'm here is, you know, the

 25 Ho-Chunk Nation certified my company, First Nation
 38

 1 Supply, which is a broker wholesaler. So I've been

 2 in business since 2002. We've done business with

 3 Forest County here and Ho-Chunk and different

 4 tribes. The Oneidas. But what I bring today is

 5 the gentleman that came with me. Like I said, a

 6 broker wholesaler. So I'm finding those widgets,

 7 I'm finding those things that even the DOT needs.

 8 My company's certified as a disadvantaged business

 9 with Wisconsin and the state of South Dakota.

 10 So that's why I brought Mr. John with me

 11 today. And he mentioned some of the things that

 12 his company can do as far as backing up NIGA and

 13 making sure that everything is clean.

 14 So maybe during the audit portion I think

 15 is on the agenda today, maybe you could give him a

 16 little bit of time. And he's going to be part of

 17 who I am as one of my companies being a broker

 18 wholesaler. So that's why I brought him. And I

 19 think the timing is unique. And from what I've

 20 read of some of the correspondence that they've

 21 given me, and talking with him on the way over here

 22 from Black River, this company is something that we

 23 really need. And not only us, but any tribe if

 24 they want to use this company, they're -- they're

 25 really cutting edge.
 39

 1 So with that, I'll say thank you.

 2 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you,

 3 Mr. Funmaker. We're happy to hear public comments

 4 and comments from private organizations, which

 5 is -- this is kind of an open-ended structure, with

 6 the caveat, though, that this is a

 7 government-to-government consultation first and

 8 foremost out of deference and respect to tribal

 9 nations, want to make sure that tribal leaders and

 10 tribal regulators have the first opportunity to

 11 weigh in.

 12 So if there are public comments, we'll do

 13 our best to allow those, if time allows. Thank

 14 you.

 15 MR. FUNMAKER: One more thing. We have

 16 four parts of the Ho-Chunk government. Executive,

 17 legislative, judicial. So two of them are

 18 represented today. I think the judicial would be

 19 represented, and also the executive with Mr. Mudd.

 20 I have this general council, which is the

 21 fourth part of our government. And that's who I

 22 recognize right now as far as leadership in our

 23 government. The general council are the people.

 24 All right? Because too many people just look to

 25 the tribe. If you talk to a senator, which I have,
 40

 1 I've talked to many of them, they'll mention "the

 2 tribe." "We did this for your tribe." But when

 3 you ask for something individually, they don't want

 4 to answer that question. They'll say, Well, we've

 5 done something already for your tribe. And this

 6 was a guy named LaPoint that ran for one of the

 7 senator positions in South Dakota. He mentioned

 8 it. He was from Pine Ridge. He said, Ask them if

 9 they do anything for the individuals. Okay?

 10 So I just want to clarify that. You

 11 know, if I get any static over here, I'm part of

 12 the general council, which is part of the four

 13 positions of the tribe of the Ho-Chunk Nation. So

 14 I'm with 3,000 voting members. So clarify that.

 15 Thank you.

 16 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you.

 17 MS. CHAPMAN-CHEOLEIER: Crystal

 18 Chapman-Cheoleier, Menominee Nation.

 19 My comments are in regard to the

 20 extensions are the administrative policy behind

 21 background checks. It's the definition piece. The

 22 25 C.F.R., Part 502, the additional language to be

 23 put into the management definition.

 24 My concern is that the definition, which

 25 includes things such as the maintenance of the
 41

 1 facilities and the supervision of construction

 2 improvements, is that it doesn't correctly align

 3 with 25 C.F.R., Subsection 510, which speaks to

 4 gaming operations. I feel that it's kind of

 5 extending into non-gaming operations. And then

 6 there's the risk of that also extending the NIGC

 7 management contract approval process to those

 8 non-gaming functions of management in the casino.

 9 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: So we have -- thank

 10 you for that. We have a third topic, which is our

 11 proposed tweaks to the -- or proposed language for

 12 definitions of management and sole proprietary

 13 interest. Maybe we could come back to some of

 14 those comments after that third section because I

 15 think we're going to get into those definition

 16 discussions quite a bit. But it's well-taken. We

 17 definitely -- this conference room's called the

 18 Harmony Conference Room. We seek to harmonize

 19 various provisions of our regulations as much as

 20 possible. And so we do have some thoughts about

 21 how the provisions work together. But if we could

 22 defer that to the third topic.

 23 MR. FUNMAKER: Before Bobby goes here.

 24 Back in 1981, I was the guy that spoke up

 25 against John Koberstein. And the case was
 42

 1 Wisconsin Winnebago versus John Koberstein. I

 2 believe that maybe we might have been one of the

 3 first tribes to oust a management agreement because

 4 he didn't get it approved by the Bureau. Nobody

 5 else was saying anything. He was sticking up there

 6 and controlled the meetings. Finally, I grabbed

 7 the mic from him, and I said, "Why do you have the

 8 mic?" You know. And then I had a statement. And

 9 people couldn't believe that I could write a

 10 statement. And eventually we took that to federal

 11 court, right? If you look that up, Wisconsin

 12 Winnebago versus John Koberstein. So go ahead,

 13 Bob.

 14 MR. MUDD: Robert Mudd, Ho-Chunk Nation,

 15 executive director of business.

 16 Kind of like what the young lady said

 17 there, and I was kind of like, We were going to go

 18 there. And I got a young gentleman sitting next to

 19 me who's actually going through some of this stuff

 20 that we're talking about. So it's very

 21 interesting.

 22 And what I've seen so far, some of the

 23 changes, I am not, you know, that sounds good to me

 24 because I think there's something has to be done,

 25 and I think this is a start. Thank you.
 43

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, sir. I

 2 mean, I don't want to put off the discussion if you

 3 want to get into the definitions a little bit more

 4 now. I mean, I don't want to take -- I think

 5 Jennifer is doing the SPI section. She had a whole

 6 written presentation. I don't want to steal

 7 Ms. Turner's thunder. Yeah, maybe we could just

 8 flip the order. We'll go into that next.

 9 MS. LAWSON: Sure.

 10 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Any other comments,

 11 questions, concerns, on this topic before we move

 12 on to our next topic? Okay.

 13 And as I said, you know, I don't want

 14 process to get in the way of discussion. So at the

 15 end, we're going to have an open-ended portion

 16 where if there are any additional comments folks

 17 have.

 18 Any other comments from the Commission

 19 before we move on to the next topic? Okay. With

 20 that, we are going to flip the order of our topics

 21 because it's a nice segue from the last comment, or

 22 the previous comment about definitions. We're

 23 going to now turn it over to Ms. Jen Lawson -- did

 24 I say Turner before? I'm thinking solicitors.

 25 Anyway, Ms. Jen Lawson. I'm so sorry. I'm
 44

 1 fighting a cold. I'm fighting a cold. And we're

 2 going to hear a little bit more about management

 3 and sole proprietary interest definitions.

 4 Jennifer.

 5 MS. LAWSON: Hello. I'm fighting the

 6 same cold. In fact, I think everybody at NIGC is

 7 fighting exactly the same cold right now. So bear

 8 with me and I will try my very best not to cough.

 9 As we touched on a little bit earlier,

 10 IGRA provides that tribally-owned gaming operations

 11 may be managed either by the tribe or by management

 12 contractor subject to an NIGC management

 13 contract -- NIGC-approved management contract.

 14 This applies to any arrangement in which a

 15 contractor manages all or part of a tribally-owned

 16 gaming operation. And to provide better clarity,

 17 the Commission is considering developing

 18 regulations that will clearly set out its standard

 19 for what constitutes "management," as well as its

 20 criteria for evaluating when a sole proprietary

 21 interest violation has occurred.

 22 In the past, to assist tribes in

 23 determining whether an activity constitutes

 24 "management," NIGC issued Bulletin 94-5. That was

 25 issued in '94 -- 1994, and the Commission still
 45

 1 relies on it pretty heavily today. In that

 2 bulletin identifies various activities that are

 3 management. And these actions include planning,

 4 organizing, directing, coordinating, and

 5 controlling all or part of a gaming operation.

 6 The NIGC Office of General Counsel issued

 7 an opinion letter back in 2009 expanding on these

 8 terms by providing examples of management

 9 activities. To date, however, the Commission has

 10 not issued a formal regulation that would define

 11 management. The Commission believes that, in

 12 consultation with tribes, developing a regulatory

 13 definition consistent with past interpretations

 14 would help provide greater clarity to the tribal

 15 gaming industry regarding what constitutes

 16 management. The Commission recognizes that the

 17 Seventh Circuit has also recommended that the

 18 Commission provide more certain guidance.

 19 So as far as sole proprietary interest

 20 goes, a stated purpose of IGRA is "to ensure that

 21 Indian tribe is the primary beneficiary of the

 22 gaming operation." To serve this purpose, IGRA

 23 requires that tribal gaming ordinances provide that

 24 tribes have the sole proprietary interest in and

 25 responsibility for the conduct of any gaming
 46

 1 activity, unless the gaming activity is

 2 individually owned.

 3 To determine whether a third party has

 4 received a proprietary interest in a tribal gaming

 5 operation in violation of the sole proprietary

 6 interest mandate -- we'll just call it SPI because

 7 that's a big mouthful -- the NIGC considers the

 8 term of the relationship, the amount of revenue

 9 paid to the third party, and the right of control

 10 over the gaming activity by the third party.

 11 The Commission previously consulted on

 12 developing guidance or regulations concerning sole

 13 proprietary interest back in 2008 and 2010. Since

 14 then, and just prior to that, courts have

 15 considered and discussed this issue in the

 16 intervening years noting and upholding NIGC's

 17 criteria for evaluating such violations. The

 18 Commission believes that a regulation consistent

 19 with past NIGC enforcement actions, and litigation,

 20 would provide greater certainty to the tribal

 21 gaming activity -- excuse me, tribal gaming

 22 industry regarding what constitutes a violation of

 23 the sole proprietary interest mandate.

 24 The draft regulations that you have here

 25 in your packet incorporate these interpretations
 47

 1 for consideration, as an addition to the

 2 Commission's compliance regulations.

 3 And now I'd like to turn it back over to

 4 the Commission to lead the discussion, and respond

 5 to any comments.

 6 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: Thank you,

 7 Ms. Lawson.

 8 As the presentation mentioned, Agency

 9 guides and legal opinions, as well as federal case

 10 law, help to inform these definitions. And I just

 11 want to make three relatively brief points.

 12 As a member of the full commission, I

 13 will not make the determination about an

 14 unauthorized management contract or about -- if

 15 there's an unauthorized management or if there's

 16 been a violation of the sole proprietary interest

 17 requirement. That's a determination the Chairman

 18 makes. But as a member of the full commission, we

 19 do hear an appeal to review the Chair's decision.

 20 So it's hoped that by promulgating the standard,

 21 we'd be able to help support transparency and good

 22 governance in the decision-making processes, both

 23 at the Chair's level and with the full Commission.

 24 Secondly, I hope that promulgating

 25 definition or providing some other guidance in this
 48

 1 area could help to provide some certainty to the

 2 partners that are working with Indian Country. In

 3 fiscal year 2017, the Office of General Counsel at

 4 our agency provided almost 60 declination letters,

 5 mostly to financial institutions, to try to give

 6 some assurances about what level of management was

 7 or wasn't occurring in an agreement or partnership.

 8 And while it's important that that

 9 assistance continue, and there's no reason that

 10 that type of support should stop, those types of --

 11 looking for that certainty through declination

 12 letters does provide -- does add costs to --

 13 transactional costs and adds delays in time. And

 14 it can have an impact on how partnerships develop.

 15 A third and last point is that by

 16 promulgating a definition, we can help to perhaps

 17 improve general awareness of the sole proprietary

 18 interest requirement or about the requirement for

 19 management contract approval process that's under

 20 the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act.

 21 I believe there's a small number of

 22 action between the Agency's history dealing with

 23 sole proprietary interests, and often fact-specific

 24 determinations about management. And that's a

 25 helpful way to provide some awareness. And of
 49

 1 course, nobody hopes for enforcement action, but if

 2 there are other ways that we can help to bring

 3 awareness to these requirements in IGRA, that's an

 4 important thing for us to do as a Commission.

 5 VICE CHAIR ISOM-CLAUSE: I'll just add to

 6 that that, you know, as is mentioned, we have these

 7 definitions floating around in a lot of places.

 8 They've been out there for years. Developed over

 9 the years, in fact. And this is our effort to put

 10 the definitions all in one spot, in one concise

 11 place, and to add greater clarity going forward.

 12 And also as Commissioner Simermeyer mentioned,

 13 potentially, if there is an enforcement action, to

 14 give us a little more stable ground to stand upon

 15 when we do have any of those functions taking

 16 place.

 17 The intention is not, to your point, to

 18 add any new requirements or, you know, not change

 19 things midstream, but that's why it's always

 20 important to talk with folks like you all experts

 21 that are working with this every day to see if

 22 things are reading differently than we intended

 23 them or, you know, any kind of comments like that

 24 would be very much appreciated.

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you. I
 50

 1 don't have too much to add to that. But as I

 2 mentioned earlier on, the management agreement

 3 approval process is important to allowing us to do

 4 our job. It's an important part of our

 5 responsibility to ensure primary beneficiary status

 6 of tribes.

 7 Along the same lines, sole proprietary

 8 interest is in IGRA, but it's not defined. And,

 9 you know, there are all these pieces of definitions

 10 that come from case law, come from Agency

 11 enforcement actions, but it's -- doesn't make sense

 12 not to compile those and put them in one readily

 13 accessible place. And that's what we're trying to

 14 do.

 15 We're also trying to avoid -- or we're

 16 trying to ensure some consistency in Agency

 17 actions. One of the things I've noticed in my role

 18 as Chairman is that, without a clear definition

 19 under the regulations, a lot of times you're left

 20 to make the best decision that you can. And I can

 21 honestly say that with, you know, working

 22 hand-in-hand with our team at the Agency, we can

 23 stand by -- behind every decision that we've made.

 24 But at the same time, it shouldn't be

 25 left to just one Chair's -- no matter how good that
 51

 1 Chair may be, one Chair's decision-making process

 2 as to what the definition of "sole proprietary

 3 interest" is. And so that's -- that's our effort.

 4 We're trying to bring clarity to the definitions,

 5 trying to bring clarity to our actions.

 6 So with that, I'm going to turn it over

 7 to the floor now. And like before, we'll open it

 8 up to questions, comments, concerns.

 9 MR. FUNMAKER: Okay. Do I have to repeat

 10 my name over there, Court Reporter?

 11 THE REPORTER: No. I'm good with you.

 12 MR. FUNMAKER: You know, one thing about

 13 changes of life on the reservation, in watching

 14 economic development progress, is that nowadays you

 15 have men and women that were independently wealthy.

 16 And then you have fee land and you have allotted

 17 lands. So in the allotted land is, let's say, a

 18 group of four people. Let's say four Funmakers.

 19 So they own one quarter on that tract of land.

 20 Could be 40 acres, let's say. All right.

 21 So they own 40 acres. And four of the

 22 Funmakers, they all have degrees. One has a degree

 23 in law. One has a degree in economics. And they

 24 have the capital behind them because of their

 25 reputation that they carry, not the tribe, as
 52

 1 individuals.

 2 You know, some of the things that we're

 3 talking about really, when we marched in the '70s,

 4 it was against oppressive behavior of the

 5 non-Indian. So now I've seen, and to be honest

 6 with you, I see oppression by tribes on their own

 7 people. All right? It happens.

 8 Now, in my make-believe casino, I would

 9 have training using the money that we have with

 10 various universities. And everybody's doing online

 11 training. And this is what I voiced when I was

 12 with the Bureau. And the regional directors

 13 actually would come against me because I wanted to

 14 get improvement in our employees.

 15 Now, the same in this fictitious casino

 16 that the Funmakers own is that I would definitely

 17 have videoconferencing in improving each one of

 18 those people that are employed in that casino. So

 19 in my finance department, they would be talking

 20 about accounting degrees. Some of the latest

 21 software that could be used. I don't see that

 22 happening now.

 23 So that's the difference between dealing

 24 with a tribe and dealing with a sole

 25 proprietorship. Unless I'm way off here. But like
 53

 1 I said, this is a different world. There are

 2 people, responsible tribal members, that now have

 3 capital, or access to capital. May it be some of

 4 the money from overseas -- what do they call

 5 that -- in fact, I think Ho-Chunk started the

 6 Sovereign Nation Wealth Fund.

 7 And one other thing is I wanted to

 8 mention is that I think that the pool of money that

 9 you have now, it would be interesting to have the

 10 opportunity for tribes to chip in whatever they

 11 want to chip in in that fund. I know I think the

 12 percentage is 0.08 of the gross of each casino.

 13 That's what NIGA is taking right now. All right?

 14 Now, our brothers over there, the

 15 Potawatomis, the Ho-Chunks, Mystic Lake, you know,

 16 Mille Lacs, let's say they want to kick in an extra

 17 ten. I don't know where the money's going now, but

 18 if it's going into an investment vehicle, it would

 19 be nice if we could be part of that. Do you follow

 20 me what I'm saying there?

 21 So, okay, we beef it up, we beef NIGA up,

 22 but we also pool our money, which has always been

 23 my dream -- and when I finally found out and I

 24 looked at -- you know, because I got on the

 25 website -- the mailing list for NIGA, come to find
 54

 1 out this is 2016, going back ten years about,

 2 they've been in the billions. Holy mackerel, these

 3 guys did it. It's pooled. All the money is

 4 pooled.

 5 Now what are we going to do with it? And

 6 I see Washington, you know, talking $18 million for

 7 this and that. And Trump wants the wall. In fact,

 8 I told Senator Johnson's office, I said, "Why don't

 9 you get it from NIGA?" And I said it on David

 10 Webb's National Patriot Radio. I said that to him.

 11 So he got behind it a hundred percent.

 12 And he goes, Yeah. He says, You guys create your

 13 own -- you know, get your laborers over there.

 14 There's so many things that we can do. When you

 15 have capital like we have, you know, that's what

 16 it's all about.

 17 So what my recommendation here is sole

 18 proprietorship, I'm just saying that the times have

 19 changed. Okay. That a family's got an allotted

 20 piece of land. The tribe does not own that land;

 21 they own it. It's in trust. It meets all the

 22 criteria. If you look at 25 C.F.R., it mentions

 23 "tribe" and also "individuals" they put in there.

 24 Did you ever notice that? It says "tribes" and

 25 "individuals." Okay?
 55

 1 So we're not going to oppress our people

 2 anymore because, you know, we're far beyond that

 3 now. We're on our way. We are a major player.

 4 Look at the Ho-Chunk Nation in this state here.

 5 We're a major employer. Potawatomi, they got this

 6 ramp coming right off the -- whatever you call it,

 7 right into their parking area. I said, Man, that's

 8 something. And then when they did business with

 9 the Mohicans out there, they have a whole

 10 interstate that came right out there, out to

 11 Mohican, when I was doing business with those guys.

 12 And then Fox Road's only 20 miles away.

 13 You know, if you're out in the middle of

 14 nowhere is one of those doughnut -- famous doughnut

 15 places. There isn't even anything out there, and

 16 they got -- out East, they really love these. What

 17 are the doughnut places they call them? They're in

 18 all over the place.

 19 But anyway, that's kind of how I see it

 20 as far as sole proprietorship. Everything you guys

 21 are talking about I've seen, I've experienced. But

 22 the main thing everybody is pray that we're not

 23 going to be oppressing our own people. Right? Do

 24 you understand what I'm saying? You guys are all

 25 young here. But pray that that doesn't happen
 56

 1 because, you know, not only us, people, college

 2 people, when we took over Alcatraz. But, I mean,

 3 aim, they -- everybody did their part to get what

 4 we have.

 5 So we have to be able to think freely.

 6 And how are we going to do these things? How are

 7 we going to become a little bit more powerful than

 8 we already are? There's a lot of land issues we

 9 could get behind. Ho-Chunk Nation, we have

 10 paperwork from the BIA stating that we own various

 11 section, township and ranges. And one in Rockford,

 12 Illinois, right in downtown in Section 26 and 27.

 13 They told us in '79 to clear up those titles. To

 14 clear title. When you buy a house, the title

 15 company looks to make sure there's no encumbrances.

 16 That's what they told us. And I gave that

 17 paperwork to our president, and he lost it.

 18 So, you know, hopefully we can -- you

 19 know, what NIGA has is to be able to be

 20 free-thinking. And hopefully, we get unity. And

 21 it's going to be really fun. I think the State

 22 should be entertaining doing joint ventures with

 23 the tribes as far as economic development.

 24 I've been talking with a company from

 25 China called Puxin Technology. Their renewable
 57

 1 energy systems are so clean. Aesthetically

 2 palatable. I asked them to come to Chicago, to our

 3 Chicago property, and start, you know, doing what

 4 they do over in China here. That's just me. I'm

 5 just an entrepreneur.

 6 But God has blessed me with, you know --

 7 I mean, when I used to tithe the church and give

 8 that ten percent, I'm getting it back. If you guys

 9 know what I'm talking about. It's true. It works.

 10 So thank you for your time. And I think

 11 I'm going to try to stay off the waves. But it's

 12 good being here. I'm glad to meet you, young man.

 13 You've got a tough job. And we got to be praying

 14 for you that you're wise, that you're protected in

 15 every way possible. That there's a mighty hedge --

 16 they say a mighty hedge built around you of

 17 protection. And NIGA. That's what I pray for you

 18 guys. And I'll continue to pray that. So thank

 19 you very much. God bless you.

 20 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for those

 21 comments. Thank you for calling us "young" twice.

 22 It's very much appreciated.

 23 And I should probably, just for the

 24 benefit of some of the folks in the room, just to

 25 take a -- I should probably take a moment just to
 58

 1 differentiate what we're talking about with this

 2 topic from another portion of IGRA that allows for

 3 individually-owned gaming.

 4 So individually-owned gaming has some

 5 clear percentages that are allowed. There are

 6 rules and requirements that apply to

 7 individually-owned gaming. We don't see a lot of

 8 this in Indian Country. But bottom line, the tribe

 9 is -- at bare minimum, the tribe has to have

 10 60 percent of revenues in individually-owned

 11 gaming. Rather, sole proprietary interest, it's

 12 kind of an undefined term. And tribes have to

 13 maintain a sole proprietary interest in their

 14 operation. So we are trying to bring clarity as to

 15 what that means.

 16 But very much appreciate your comments.

 17 Again, I really want to defer to tribal regulators,

 18 tribal leadership. I want to hear from all

 19 corners. But we have a lot of regulators in the

 20 room today. And I always have a special place in

 21 my heart for fellow regulators. We don't get too

 22 much love in any corner of the world. So I want to

 23 defer to regulator comments as much as possible,

 24 leadership comments as much as possible. Thank you

 25 so much for those comments.
 59

 1 Additional questions, comments, concerns?

 2 Yes, sir.

 3 MR. MUDD: This is Robert Mudd again. I

 4 have to be excused. So far, the discussion and

 5 everything that I've seen looks pretty decent to me

 6 and acceptable from my personal view as executive

 7 director of business for the Ho-Chunk Nation. And

 8 thank you.

 9 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you, sir.

 10 Thank you for taking the time to be here today.

 11 Additional questions, comments, concerns?

 12 Yes, sir.

 13 MR. MATHERLY: Thank you, Chairman,

 14 fellow commissioners. I also want to thank my

 15 elder over here for those comments. Andrew

 16 Matherly, Spokane Tribe.

 17 First, I'm just going to read off some of

 18 my notes here. We're going to submit our comments

 19 before the 28th.

 20 So supporting open discussion on whether

 21 NIGC should develop regulations to clarify the

 22 management -- definition of "management." One goal

 23 should be to reduce NIGC review on financing and

 24 other complex transactions.

 25 As you know, like -- I guess that's -- as
 60

 1 a regulator, that's my concern is that we enter

 2 into a management contract, but we have a lending

 3 company. And those lending companies tend to hide

 4 behind federal banking institutes, so they're

 5 exempt from all these other licensing requirements,

 6 but then they put restrictions on how the money

 7 could be used, when it can be done. As a

 8 regulator, we don't license them. So, you know,

 9 some of that's done with the tribal government

 10 attorneys. And so we have to come in and we have

 11 to be the ones that have to say, No, sorry, you

 12 don't get that.

 13 One goal actually, which not only -- I

 14 mean, with that, that places a burden on the NIGC.

 15 Also places a burden of costs to the tribes, you

 16 know. As NIGC knows with our last project, you

 17 know, we -- but I do appreciate the Gaming

 18 Commission giving me that determination literally

 19 at the last hour. We did a soft opening on

 20 January 5th to the public. NIGC came in -- I know

 21 you guys had extreme hurricane winter blizzard, and

 22 got that approved for us. So I do appreciate that.

 23 We note the need for clarity in the area

 24 given increased vendor demand for control over

 25 placement and operation of leased gaming machines.
 61

 1 That's a concern.

 2 Second, we support consideration of

 3 regulations to clarify sole proprietary interest.

 4 Despite the NIGC and federal court's guidance

 5 that's been provided in this area, there continues

 6 to be fundamental misconceptions about the bedrock

 7 requirement of IGRA. And what I do want to state

 8 is this -- this NIGC body, and probably the last

 9 administration, I think we can all agree at the

 10 table, and other tribes, that we have a good

 11 understanding. We have a relationship. Former

 12 administrations before that, we didn't have that

 13 relationship. I mean, the old NIGC would walk in

 14 the door, Hey, how you doing, Andy? And walk out

 15 and give me a PNOB. Okay?

 16 Third, we'd request that NIGC consider

 17 clarifying the terms and conditions under which

 18 individually-owned gaming is allowed under IGRA.

 19 And the application of those terms and conditions

 20 to the operation of state lotteries on Indian

 21 lands.

 22 And I won't go into detail, but NIGC

 23 provided opinion back to us on state lotteries.

 24 And I know I stressed that in my opinion before is

 25 that if you have a state that's going to conduct
 62

 1 Class III gaming, prize consideration and chance,

 2 and the tribe should be able to also operate that

 3 same gaming. And I've referenced that in state

 4 lottery because the state lottery systems only want

 5 to give five percent back to the tribes. So that

 6 doesn't make a sole proprietor. We don't benefit

 7 from it. And so that -- as a regulator, that's

 8 something I'm always constantly fighting. It's

 9 people that are in the government and they're sold

 10 -- they're sold, I guess, false goods that, A, if

 11 we put lottery on your lands, it's going to

 12 increase revenue and bring a bunch of money to your

 13 c-stores. But in essence, who really benefits, you

 14 know, so -- so thank you.

 15 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much

 16 for those comments. And really, hats off to the

 17 Office of General Counsel that issued that opinion

 18 regarding Washington State sole proprietary

 19 interest issues. And hats off to the General

 20 Counsel's office.

 21 You know, well taken, those points about

 22 additional rules regarding individually-owned

 23 gaming. Additional rules that help bring clarity

 24 in other areas. We're constantly on the lookout

 25 to -- you know, for how to do things better.
 63

 1 So those are some comments that we

 2 haven't heard widely. But again, sometimes it's

 3 these discussions that get us thinking about

 4 additional topics of conversation or additional

 5 regulatory improvements we can make. So those are

 6 very well-taken.

 7 Also well-taken, we want to avoid

 8 unintended consequences as much as possible. And I

 9 think a comment was made about keeping in mind the

 10 impact on financing that the definitions may have.

 11 And that's important that we've talked about

 12 internally quite a bit. As my fellow commissioners

 13 mentioned in their background discussions, we do

 14 put a lot of work, and we see it as a service to

 15 the industry, service to Indian Country, but we put

 16 a lot of work into the declination letters that our

 17 general counsel's office issues. But those

 18 declination letters are just fancy ways of

 19 saying -- they're attorney opinion letters on

 20 contracts that are submitted to us where our office

 21 weighs in on whether or not those contracts are

 22 management agreements. And the thought and the

 23 hope is that if there's a clearer definition of

 24 "management," there can be more clarity on the

 25 front end that the industry can rely on, even
 64

 1 before sending letters to us for declination -- for

 2 a declination letter.

 3 So the hope is you have a defined

 4 definition that everybody knows what the rules are.

 5 And the finance industry, tribal nations, they'll

 6 have a clearer picture, in theory, even before

 7 engaging in the declination process.

 8 So I think that touches on some of the

 9 comments that you may have brought up earlier. Not

 10 really, but I don't want to -- I don't want to

 11 forget about that. But again, thank you so much

 12 for those comments, sir.

 13 Additional comments? We are going to

 14 come back. Additional comments, questions? I

 15 don't know if you want to expand on your question

 16 after Ms. Lawson's presentation.

 17 MS. CHAPMAN-CHEOLEIER: I have another

 18 piece -- a sole proprietary piece.

 19 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay.

 20 MS. CHAPMAN-CHEOLEIER: It seems almost

 21 like you're trying to define it by potential

 22 violations. And that may be an actual simplistic

 23 definition would be better served with Section 502,

 24 the definitions area. And that could be as simple

 25 as speaking to the ownership control and right to
 65

 1 revenue. And then always leaving that little bit

 2 of language in there that speaks to by

 3 determination of the chairman.

 4 The other piece I just wanted to touch on

 5 was that there doesn't seem to be a clear role for

 6 some tribes. It speaks to the tribe, but some

 7 tribes choose to -- like Menominee, for instance,

 8 choose to create a business entity by tribal law,

 9 appointed by the tribal government, but to provide

 10 that separation. And that maybe there could be

 11 some language somewhere in here that speaks to

 12 that.

 13 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Well, that speaks to

 14 that in terms of weighing in? I mean --

 15 MS. CHAPMAN-CHEOLEIER: Well, just, like,

 16 kind of referencing it. Rather than referencing

 17 the tribe who's going to do casino where they're

 18 going to have somebody do the casino under a

 19 management contract. Sometimes the tribe will

 20 choose to do it by a separate business entity as a

 21 part of the tribal government.

 22 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Ms. Lawson, please

 23 feel free to correct me, but we -- we strive to

 24 have as much flexibility in our approach to the

 25 tribal nations, recognizing that, you know, tribes
 66

 1 set up corporate entities, subsidiary entities, and

 2 in every which way possible. We don't want to

 3 place any restrictions on that. We've always seen

 4 that as an outgrowth of the tribe's ownership. Its

 5 gaming.

 6 And so there are so many -- I'd be a

 7 little hesitant to weigh in on getting into too

 8 many rules relating to that because I think the

 9 baseline is tribes should be free to structure

 10 their businesses however they see fit.

 11 MS. CHAPMAN-CHEOLEIER: Maybe the

 12 language like -- just including the language, like,

 13 tribes are tribal gaming business. Just to be a

 14 little more inclusive.

 15 MS. LAWSON: So if I understand right,

 16 you're saying when we're talking about management

 17 and third-party management --

 18 MS. CHAPMAN-CHEOLEIER: Yes.

 19 MS. LAWSON: -- you're saying just add a

 20 note in there that when we say "third party," we're

 21 not including tribal arms.

 22 MS. CHAPMAN-CHEOLEIER: Exactly.

 23 MS. LAWSON: That's a good comment.

 24 We'll consider it.

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: We'll definitely
 67

 1 consider that. And thank you for that. Because,

 2 you know, last thing we want to do is make any new

 3 rules for tribal entities. In our view, that's

 4 part of the tribe. But making that clear, again,

 5 the whole point is clarity.

 6 MS. LAWSON: And that is the question

 7 that we get asked on a fairly regular basis. Folks

 8 asking us, Is this branch of the tribe that's

 9 managing our operation, is that a management

 10 contract? So it might not hurt.

 11 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you.

 12 That's exactly these types of comments that, you

 13 know, even if we have a proposal that we think is

 14 good, it can always be better. So appreciate it.

 15 MS. BLASCHKE: Corinna Blaschke, Ho-Chunk

 16 Nation Gaming Commission.

 17 We've had some questions regarding

 18 management contract, the definition, so -- I just

 19 wanted to say that the Ho-Chunk Gaming Commission

 20 does support these clarifications that were made.

 21 Thank you.

 22 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that.

 23 Thank you.

 24 Another thought is nobody should have to

 25 pay -- I mean, with all respect to lawyers, and all
 68

 1 respect to consultants, you shouldn't have to have

 2 a consultant figure out what these things are by

 3 going to ten different sources. It should be --

 4 and a starting point can be one place that, you

 5 know, everybody can look to to read.

 6 Additional comments, questions, concerns?

 7 All right. Anything else from the Commission

 8 before we move onto our third topic?

 9 Okay. I think we'll move onto our third

 10 and final topic. We switched order. So the audit

 11 submissions discussion, Chief of Staff Christina

 12 Thomas.

 13 MS. THOMAS: Thank you, Chairman.

 14 So under IGRA and current NIGC

 15 regulations, gaming operations, regardless of

 16 income, are required to submit an annual audited

 17 financial statement, completed by certified public

 18 accountants, to the Commission within 120 days of

 19 their fiscal year end. These audits may be

 20 encompassed within existing independent tribal

 21 audit systems.

 22 Submission of the annual audit report is

 23 critical to the NIGC's mission to protect the

 24 integrity of Indian gaming and provides a certain

 25 level of assurance as to the safekeeping of tribal
 69

 1 gaming revenues. The audit report prepared and

 2 submitted on a timely basis is evidence of, among

 3 other things, the integrity of the gaming operation

 4 and, more specifically, of the adequacy of the

 5 books and records, the functioning of the internal

 6 financial controls, and the disclosure of

 7 information having a bearing on the financial

 8 statements.

 9 The Commission, however, recognizes that

 10 small or charitable gaming operations often

 11 struggle with the cost of these requirements. With

 12 this in mind, the Commission is seeking feedback

 13 and recommendations on whether changes are needed

 14 to the audit submission regulations. Specifically,

 15 we want input on what level or levels of audit

 16 should be required for smaller gaming operations or

 17 charitable gaming operations.

 18 A gaming operation earning less than

 19 $2 million in gross gaming revenue annually can

 20 request from the Commission to submit a

 21 CPA-reviewed financial statement, if it has

 22 submitted an audited financial statement for

 23 three -- the three consecutive years prior. A

 24 reviewed financial statement must be completed by

 25 an independent CPA and conform to statements on
 70

 1 standards for accounting and review services of the

 2 gaming operation.

 3 In fiscal year 2016, only 80 operations

 4 earned less than $2 million in gross gaming

 5 revenue. Of those 80, only six submitted the

 6 lesser financial statement review. Small or

 7 charitable gaming operations often produce less

 8 than $100,000 in gross gaming revenue annually,

 9 some less than $10,000. Contracting a CPA firm to

 10 perform an annual audit can prove cost prohibitive,

 11 and as a result, may defer tribes from pursuing

 12 these gaming opportunities.

 13 NIGC reviewed statutes and regulations

 14 from a number of jurisdictions and agencies

 15 concerned with financial entities, including the

 16 State of Nevada, the Federal Deposit Insurance

 17 Corporation and the Department of Interior. We

 18 found no consistency in the audit requirements.

 19 For example, Nevada gaming regulations

 20 require audits of financial statements for

 21 operations grossing more $5 million, but maintain

 22 the right to require audits, compile statements, or

 23 reviews the financial statements of those

 24 operations whose gross revenue is less than

 25 $5 million. Interior exempts non-federal entities
 71

 1 from their audit requirement if the entity expends

 2 less than $750,000 per year.

 3 As NIGC considers altering its own

 4 regulations, it recognizes that there are currently

 5 95 tribal operations that produce less than

 6 $3 million in gross gaming revenue. Further, the

 7 Commission is aware that tribal gaming operations

 8 deal with the most regulations from their own

 9 governments, as well as state and federal entities.

 10 Our hope through this consultation

 11 session is to discuss opportunities to receive

 12 feedback and recommendations on how to amend this

 13 regulation, while still ensuring we are supporting

 14 financial stability and maintaining a high level of

 15 protection of tribal gaming operations.

 16 With that, I will hand it back over to

 17 the Commission to start the discussion.

 18 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thanks.

 19 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: Thanks,

 20 Ms. Thomas.

 21 Like with our first management contract

 22 review process discussion, what the Commission is

 23 looking at with regard to audit -- I was saying

 24 that like with the management contract review

 25 discussion that we began with, what the Commission
 72

 1 is looking at here with regard to audits is to make

 2 sure that the changes in the process comply with

 3 Indian Gaming Regulatory Act's requirement that

 4 tribes submit an annual independent audit to the --

 5 to our Agency.

 6 So whatever changes that the -- that

 7 we're considering with this are ways to meet this

 8 obligation, a couple observations have jumped out

 9 to me in understanding this process.

 10 First, that many tribes' regulatory

 11 bodies already have a very sophisticated capacity

 12 and ability to conduct audits and to ensure

 13 independence and integrity. It's also the case

 14 that the high cost of an audit can make a small

 15 gaming operation not profitable. Or worse, it can

 16 create a disincentive to comply with the annual

 17 submission requirement, or to allow even small --

 18 for regulators to allow small gaming operations to

 19 operate at all because of the annual audit costs.

 20 So it'll be helpful to hear about your

 21 experiences with NIGC's auditing or other aspects

 22 of your regulation or governance. It's also, I

 23 think, as Ms. Thomas pointed out, it's interesting

 24 to hear that of potentially -- 80 potentially

 25 eligible operations, only six sought the lesser
 73

 1 financial statement process.

 2 What are of the other incentives that

 3 might be there? Is raising the threshold from

 4 $2 million, would that be an adequate enough

 5 incentive? What other types of things can we do to

 6 look at minimizing the cost of this auditing

 7 process and, at the same time, complying with

 8 Indian Gaming Regulatory Act's expectation that

 9 these audits are going to take place in order to

 10 provide financial stability and help ensure

 11 capacity at the regulatory level? So thank you.

 12 VICE CHAIR ISOM-CLAUSE: I'd just like to

 13 highlight that one of the reasons that we're

 14 considering this is because of our rural outreach

 15 initiative where we're considering different ways

 16 we can be responsive to small and rural operations.

 17 So, for example, one of the things that

 18 we've done under that initiative is our regional

 19 training conferences now are live-streamed, so you

 20 can join through Adobe Connect. But helpful, I

 21 think, to tribes that are in remote areas, or just

 22 don't have the budget or time to travel.

 23 So, you know, this is another way we're

 24 kind of trying to think outside the box within the

 25 limits of IGRA, which is a box, but ways that we
 74

 1 can consider our own regulations and our own

 2 functionings as an Agency to be more responsive to

 3 the needs of tribes with those concerns. Thank

 4 you.

 5 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you,

 6 fellow commissioners. I really don't have much to

 7 add to that. Actually, I don't have anything to

 8 add to that. I couldn't have said any of that

 9 better myself.

 10 So at this point, I'll turn it over to

 11 the floor for questions, comments, concerns?

 12 MR. TAYLOR: Good afternoon. Jeff

 13 Taylor, St. Croix -- Chairman of the St. Croix

 14 Gaming Commission. Thank you for the opportunity

 15 for the consultation today, NIGC.

 16 Back home, we have a small community of

 17 bingo. They don't make more than $900 a year.

 18 It's mainly for the community, for elders. We know

 19 a lot of our couples like to play bingo. They get

 20 out with the grandkids and go and play bingo in the

 21 evenings every Wednesday night. And right now, big

 22 firms, the big -- that do our outside audits for

 23 our casinos, they want to charge us $20,000 to do

 24 an audit for a small operation like that, you know.

 25 So we're hoping the Commission consider
 75

 1 additional limits to this so maybe something like

 2 that we can maybe get away with the review maybe or

 3 something. Because right now, somebody that spends

 4 $20 to play bingo every Wednesday night, elders

 5 bring grandchildren to play to support the

 6 community. Elders love to play bingo back home,

 7 so --

 8 I was hoping we could change something on

 9 this. Because you can have fun down there for less

 10 than $20, you know, to do a CP audit. Any

 11 recommendations would help here from anybody in the

 12 room here, too, so --

 13 MS. LAWSON: After the meeting, I can

 14 give you my information. I'm Jennifer Lawson.

 15 Also general counsel. And we can talk about some

 16 ways that are available under our regulations now

 17 that might be able to get you into the reviewed

 18 financial statement category.

 19 MR. TAYLOR: Sure. I mean, it's just

 20 that the State, the bingo, the VFWs, they all

 21 have -- they all have to be audited, they get out

 22 of it because the State don't have enough auditors

 23 to audit them. So some of them don't even have to

 24 audit. They just have to have their paperwork

 25 presentable if somebody does shows up, you know.
 76

 1 So, I mean, just we're competing, you know, with

 2 local bingos around the area, too, so --

 3 MS. LAWSON: Whatever happens with the

 4 regulations, let's try, at least for now in the

 5 meantime, before they get changed, let's try to get

 6 you into something that's going to be less cost

 7 prohibitive for you under the current regs. And

 8 then hopefully there'll be a change that is great

 9 for you, even better. Okay. Chair.

 10 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And I really

 11 appreciate your comments. Really appreciate

 12 Ms. Lawson's comments as well.

 13 Just, I should say one of the reasons

 14 these consultations are transcribed is that -- so

 15 that folks who aren't in the room can benefit from

 16 the comments, the dialogue, that we have.

 17 In addition to NIGC responses, if

 18 there -- since we have so many regulators in the

 19 room, if there are -- if there's any kind of back

 20 and forth, I want us all to approach all of this as

 21 a conversation.

 22 Beyond today, in addition to following up

 23 with Ms. Lawson or anybody at the general counsel's

 24 office, I do want to remind folks that our

 25 trainings are -- I don't want to say they're free,
 77

 1 as we always say they're prepaid because, you know,

 2 our Agency runs on fees from tribal nations. But

 3 our trainings can be tribe specific, too. So we

 4 stand ready to be as responsive as possible if

 5 anybody wants to come in and sit down with -- with

 6 your commission or any commission or tribal

 7 leadership, we'll try and schedule that and make

 8 that happen. So we have an open phone line. And

 9 open-door policy at NIGC. But in addition to that,

 10 I did want to mention our trainings.

 11 But thank you so much for those comments,

 12 Chairman.

 13 MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Chairman.

 14 MS. MASON: Tara Mason,

 15 secretary/treasurer for White Earth Reservation

 16 Business Committee.

 17 And so I think I really want to thank

 18 you, first of all, for hosting this and for having

 19 us here. I really enjoy your facility and for

 20 having consultation. And I know we're wrapping it

 21 all up.

 22 But I think this is one of the things

 23 that, when it comes to White Earth, we're in the

 24 northern part of Minnesota. And we are rural. But

 25 our gaming facility is large enough. But what
 78

 1 we've done in that area is we have our offsite

 2 gaming. And so we've partnered with area

 3 businesses and we have our non-tribally-operated

 4 gaming entities.

 5 And what is happening is that currently

 6 throughout the year, there are 17 partnerships that

 7 we have where we have our Class II. And during the

 8 summer months, those increase. So that number

 9 increases. But what we're looking at is a lot of

 10 these entities, whether they be local member-owned

 11 c-stores, we have some bar facilities that we've

 12 partnered with, some are tribal members, some are

 13 not. But we have over Class II in there.

 14 And the cost -- a lot of us don't have

 15 audits. They're not being audited. And so now we

 16 have a number of audits. And that's one of the

 17 things because we're looking at, you know, what are

 18 some of the proposals, what are some of the things

 19 that we can do to help offset these costs because

 20 we don't -- we can't afford to assume the cost for

 21 their audits for their businesses, but we're still

 22 following underneath these regulations.

 23 So I was wondering if there was, you

 24 know, going back to, you know, the position that

 25 White Earth is in, and then also looking at, like,
 79

 1 the community bingos and what our community

 2 councils are doing once we issue out our gaming

 3 licenses for those entities. And if there are

 4 other solutions. And I know that there's some

 5 things that are kind of, like, provisions. But if

 6 there's any options or any kind of conversation we

 7 can have with that.

 8 And then I also brought Rae Smith, our

 9 compliance director, because we've looked at that.

 10 So she might be able to kind of clarify this and be

 11 part of this discussion. So is there anything that

 12 you'd like to add, Rae?

 13 MS. SMITH: I just think that with a lot

 14 of the smaller sites, as Ms. Mason has said, we

 15 actually would not -- a majority of them would not

 16 be able to have a CPA come in. And we've looked at

 17 -- and actually this year, we had it kind of

 18 segregated out and rolled into ours. But we would

 19 prefer to have, like, a separate review process or

 20 something that's easier. Or allow our compliance

 21 division to be able to -- our, you know, internal

 22 auditors to be able to go out and actually do that,

 23 and then perhaps resubmit those audits to NIGC.

 24 Some other kind of options, other than,

 25 you know, put the burden back on the facilities
 80

 1 because we don't want to lose them. If we, you

 2 know, try to -- many of the sites fear that, you

 3 know, you start talking audits, are they talking

 4 just our -- you know, the bingo games that we're

 5 holding, or because we're operating in their bars

 6 or, you know, their restaurants, gas stations, are

 7 they going to start looking at doing it to provide,

 8 you know, our operations information.

 9 A lot of them don't keep those records

 10 separate. They all -- you know, they're small

 11 mom-and-pop businesses, and they run everything

 12 through one checking account, you know. It would

 13 be very difficult to -- for them, it would be a

 14 burden to try to have -- put it all back to the

 15 sites.

 16 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much

 17 for those comments. And I imagine our team

 18 probably has a lot of things that they can speak

 19 about those issues. We covered a lot of ground in

 20 those comments. Let me talk about a couple

 21 different things that kind of caught my ear.

 22 We talked about non-IGRA gaming in terms

 23 of working with some folks off the reservation.

 24 And we also talked about charitable gaming, you

 25 know, whether it's VFW or any of these groups. Let
 81

 1 me just say a couple things about that.

 2 This may be one of those things that kind

 3 of we continue to work on long after I'm gone, or

 4 hopefully not too long after I'm gone, but we have

 5 internally talked about trying to bring some

 6 additional clarity in the world of charitable

 7 gaming. And so we recognize that, especially for a

 8 lot of rural and small -- a lot of rural

 9 communities, charitable gaming is an important part

 10 of what folks do. But the burden's to make sure --

 11 the burdens of compliance fall on the tribe and not

 12 necessarily the charities that operate the gaming.

 13 What can we do as an Agency to work with

 14 the tribe to allow -- I mean, because IGRA does

 15 allow for charitable gaming. But to make sure that

 16 things are as smooth as possible, but the tribes

 17 aren't necessarily bearing the costs of the audits

 18 and the regulation that really should be borne by

 19 these entities. Again, you can't make it so

 20 burdensome that it's not -- it's not even a viable

 21 option.

 22 But that's something that we welcome

 23 further discussions with you about. That's

 24 something that we talked about as a potential topic

 25 for regulation. But we certainly want to hear
 82

 1 more, talk more, and kind of weigh -- weigh what is

 2 the most sensible approach moving forward.

 3 IGRA requires independent audits for

 4 gaming. What "independent audits" truly means,

 5 that could be potentially subject to some

 6 interpretation. But we welcome that dialogue and

 7 answer the question, Yes, this is something that we

 8 thought about and talked about tackling, and maybe

 9 that we do it after I'm gone. But not -- just

 10 so -- well, I'm not going to get into that. But

 11 Chief of Staff.

 12 MS. THOMAS: So I wanted to kind of jump

 13 on that. So yes, IGRA does require an independent

 14 audit. And we have been having discussions on

 15 exactly what that means, so --

 16 Historically, the Agency has defined what

 17 the audit requirements are within their

 18 Regulation 571.12. And out of those requirements,

 19 it requires the CPA and it requires that it be done

 20 annually. So the Agency has historically defined

 21 that independence within that regulation.

 22 So as part of the consultation, we're

 23 looking for feedback from tribes such as White

 24 Earth -- and I'm from Minnesota, so I'm very

 25 familiar your guys' makeup in northern Minnesota --
 83

 1 to get an understanding of where those burdens

 2 exist and maybe defining or changing 571 to better

 3 meet the needs of tribes in situations like what

 4 you have, but still maintain the integrity of

 5 tribal gaming.

 6 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: It's the whole point

 7 of these consultations. So in addition to the

 8 topics that we're working on, maybe this tees up a

 9 new round of dialogue. But that is something that

 10 I think would be well-timed. Very timely. Thank

 11 you so much.

 12 Yes, sir.

 13 MR. MATHERLY: Thank you, Chairman,

 14 fellow commissioners. Andrew Matherly, Spokane

 15 Tribe.

 16 So to get back to audit submissions. We

 17 had a few notes here for the additional amendments

 18 to 571.12 to allow small operations to submit

 19 unaudited or CPA-compiled rather than reviewed

 20 financial statements. And to increase the maximum

 21 GGR to allow submission of renewed -- reviewed

 22 rather than audited financial statements to

 23 $3 million.

 24 But I also am interested in the

 25 charitable gaming, and how we can define that.
 84

 1 Obviously, our compacts and states are going to

 2 define it as noncharitable organizations that they

 3 look at in their register as 501(c)(3)'s, but how

 4 tribal governments and how tribes can view what

 5 they view as nonprofit charitable gaming. And get

 6 into some of those regulations of having pull tabs

 7 as a Class III intermixed with bingo as a Class II,

 8 and how that's orchestrated. I'm interested in

 9 that future topic.

 10 And also just a side note. I know some

 11 of the language in IGRA, you know, it's outdated.

 12 As we're talking numbers, we're talking $2 million,

 13 $3 million. And hopefully, we can get back to some

 14 of the definitions, like I'll use an example of

 15 "key employee." People are compensated over

 16 $50,000. Well, when that language was written in

 17 1988, $50,000 was probably a lot of money. But we

 18 have people that work in our facility that work in,

 19 like, say the facilities would be a non-gaming

 20 function, but because of their threshold and their

 21 compensation, we need to license them, fingerprint

 22 them as a key employee.

 23 So I do want to get into some of those

 24 topics later down the road. Thank you.

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you for
 85

 1 that. I should say that even the topics that we're

 2 discussing today grew out of conversations like

 3 this on other topics. So it's -- the idea of

 4 partnership is it's an ongoing conversation. And

 5 so the issue's definitely been raised among all of

 6 us. And we can be assured we'll continue our

 7 discussion on charitable gaming, on small operation

 8 audit requirements. Thank you so much.

 9 It's 3:00 right now. There's no harm in

 10 going a little bit past our scheduled time. I want

 11 to make sure everybody has ample opportunity to

 12 weigh in and provide comments, questions and

 13 concerns. But I did want to let everybody know

 14 where we are time-wise.

 15 Additional comments, questions? Yes,

 16 sir.

 17 MR. GEORGE: Sorry, everybody. Kenneth

 18 George, Jr., still. Forest County Potawatomi

 19 Gaming Commission Chairman.

 20 All the discussion this afternoon has

 21 been very great discussion. I never heard Cory

 22 talk so much in my life. But thank you, Cory, for

 23 saying something. So I know we're part of the

 24 Wisconsin Gaming Regulatory Association. Jeff and

 25 Cory are commission chairmans, and also ourselves
 86

 1 for the Forest County Potawatomi.

 2 We have an organization within Wisconsin

 3 that we all share information with each other. So

 4 we have a regulatory association that is a very

 5 strong organization, and we share information with

 6 each other as much as possible. And also the --

 7 Linda and her group are a big part of that

 8 organization as well, so -- I know we have a great

 9 working relationship as well with the Office of

 10 Indian Gaming Regulatory Compliance with the State

 11 of Wisconsin. And they're also part of our

 12 organization.

 13 So with that said, you know, as we move

 14 forward into -- I call it the "new evolution of

 15 gaming," you know, everything is online. It's

 16 online gaming here, online gaming there. You know,

 17 I think for 28 -- 25 to 30 years, I think we as

 18 regulators and leaders in this room have learned a

 19 lot. I think we've learned how to do business. I

 20 know we've learned how to read the federal

 21 register. We know how to do all this. We know how

 22 to do all that. And I think it's time for us to

 23 take control of that. You know, as leaders, as

 24 regulators, as Indian people. You know, as

 25 ownership. Ownership of these properties. And
 87

 1 also with this being a tribal member of these

 2 properties.

 3 And also speaking from an appointed

 4 official role for the Forest County Potawatomi is

 5 that we definitely need to look at how do we move

 6 forward. You know, we do look at all of the

 7 regulations, you know. The regulations are old,

 8 you know. There are standards in there that have

 9 been there since the beginning.

 10 But how do we get that done? You know,

 11 how do we move forward and how do we move into the

 12 21st century with -- where everybody has an iPhone,

 13 a smartphone. They can look up Google. Anything

 14 you want to Google while you're sitting in a

 15 meeting or you're sitting here. You know, that's

 16 the future of gaming. No matter if we're ready for

 17 it or not. That's where we're moving towards.

 18 You know, and if we can sit here and talk

 19 about management contracts, audit submission, sole

 20 proprietary, I think we can look at the future as

 21 well. How are we going to deal with those as the

 22 evolution of gaming starts to continue? I think

 23 with -- with the -- as we move forward, and with

 24 your guys' commission, when your leadership and how

 25 you guys are looking at it, I think that's a
 88

 1 recommendation from Forest County Potawatomi Gaming

 2 Commission is to look at that, look into the

 3 future, and maybe start looking at consultations to

 4 where, let's be proactive on moving forward into

 5 the next evolution of gaming.

 6 Because the -- the competitors in our

 7 market have already done it. You know, the

 8 corporate games, the nonnative vendors. You know,

 9 we look past all of our native -- there's a lot of

 10 native vendors that are out there that have paid

 11 their dues, have done -- have done whatever they

 12 have to do to get to where they're at. And I think

 13 that's one of the things we do is we owe them a

 14 chance to do good for Indian Country.

 15 You know, I think that's one of the

 16 things that we miss sometimes when they sit here

 17 and talk in consultation is we sit here and we

 18 nitpick this, that or otherwise, or whatever word

 19 we were talking about earlier. I think that's the

 20 thing that we don't want to -- we don't want to

 21 waste any of our time, we don't want to waste your

 22 guys' time.

 23 I think it's something that, as we move

 24 forward, let's be proactive. And I think as we do

 25 move forward, let's use our minds and let's sit
 89

 1 down together and say, Okay, where are we going?

 2 Because we are going into a different -- a

 3 different -- different way of gaming.

 4 You know, Jeff was talking about, you

 5 know, his elders and the children playing bingo,

 6 you know. That's big for them up there in northern

 7 Wisconsin. You know, that's something that we need

 8 to be looking out, is looking out for each other in

 9 the state and then in the region. How do we help

 10 each other out on that? You know, because they're

 11 just doing that for fun. They're not doing it to

 12 make money.

 13 I think that's one of the things that we

 14 have to look at is, Come on now, when's enough

 15 enough, you know. I think that's one of the things

 16 we need to look at is to make sure that there's

 17 common sense used. You know, sometimes we lose

 18 track of common sense.

 19 So with that said, we need to definitely

 20 look at the future of gaming, which is all online.

 21 You know, we got to start thinking about what's

 22 the -- what's the next federal register going to

 23 look like for gaming -- for Indian gaming? What's

 24 the next IGRA going to look like iGaming, for

 25 online gaming? Because none of it -- nothing in
 90

 1 IGRA says anything about online gaming. So that's

 2 one of the things that we need to look at and be

 3 proactive on.

 4 MR. FUNMAKER: I agree with you. I was

 5 just loading my gaming slots here. And I got that

 6 from Amazon. And then --

 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Playing slots during

 8 the consultation, sir? Is that what you --

 9 MR. FUNMAKER: No. I need the Wi-Fi

 10 password. So they won't let me in.

 11 So, you know, this is really fun to goof

 12 around with. And, of course, my mind starts

 13 thinking, I said, Well, I looked up on Amazon and I

 14 put in "gaming." And sure enough, they bought a

 15 major software company that they're preparing to do

 16 gaming. So I said, Well, how would they do it?

 17 Would they pay out with money or could they pay out

 18 with goods? Follow what I'm saying? Doesn't have

 19 to be money. Amazon's got, you know, all those

 20 goods. Well, instead of you taking that thousand

 21 dollars, we'll give you a $700 TV or whatever.

 22 So I agree with my brother here from the

 23 Forest County. We got to watch out.

 24 And then there's that bill in New Jersey

 25 about that sports betting. Has anybody looked at
 91

 1 that? And they're saying that's Trump's way of

 2 getting in here and disrupting our game.

 3 So there's a couple, you know, different

 4 things on the horizon. And like my brother says,

 5 we have to be prepared. How are we going to do it?

 6 How do we retain the market that we now have?

 7 So I'm glad you said that. Behind you

 8 100 percent. So that's kind of how I'm seeing it.

 9 Am I a visionary? Yeah, I am. When I played

 10 basketball, I could always see two or three plays

 11 ahead. So I always tell my athlete young people, I

 12 said, That gift will come back to you some way in

 13 another form. You won't lose it, but it'll come

 14 back in another way.

 15 So I like to think that a lot of us

 16 really have that gift from the Creator. Thinking

 17 ahead, especially those compliance people. I

 18 shouldn't say this, but I lived out there amongst

 19 the Lakota Dakota. And you live out there, you can

 20 see a long ways. You know, they said a guy's dog

 21 ran away, and you watched it for three days.

 22 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Well, I so

 23 appreciate those comments. I mean, we heard about

 24 two of our four tent pole initiatives earlier. We

 25 talked about protecting against gamesmanship on the
 92

 1 backs of tribes. We heard about our commitment to

 2 rural outreach. Third and fourth ones are -- third

 3 one is supporting a strong workforce, both within

 4 NIGC and among our regulatory partners.

 5 But our fourth one -- earlier today we

 6 were joined by our technology division director,

 7 Travis Waldo. The fourth one is a commitment to

 8 staying ahead of the technology curve. And part of

 9 that was the creation of the technology division,

 10 the hiring of Travis as our first director. And

 11 that's been very important to us. That's kind of

 12 helped shape our Agency functions both on policy

 13 level, it's helped to inform our regulatory

 14 discussions, but also internally our day-to-day

 15 operations. I mean, as I always joke about, a few

 16 years ago, when we all first started, we didn't

 17 have caller ID at NIGC. We've come a long way in

 18 the last few years.

 19 But, you know, I feel comfortable with

 20 saying that, you know, hand-in-hand we're meeting

 21 the challenges of the day. But your point about

 22 meeting the challenges of tomorrow is very well

 23 taken. And the only way we can do that is by

 24 listening and learning and talking among our

 25 partners. So thank you so very much for those
 93

 1 comments.

 2 We're a little bit over time. But again,

 3 we want to make sure that all voices and

 4 perspectives are heard. Any other additional

 5 comments?

 6 Before the Commission wraps up, we do

 7 want to -- we want to provide our host nation with

 8 an additional opportunity for final comments. But

 9 any other comments on this topic? Yes, sir.

 10 MR. DINISHEK: Thank you. I'll try to

 11 make this quick, given that -- my name is John

 12 Dinishek. And I'm serving as a consultant with

 13 Mr. Funmaker. And we've been in recent

 14 conversations about him pursuing and looking at the

 15 viability of a business opportunity that he's

 16 looking at.

 17 In the quick way of background. I spent

 18 17 -- the last 17 years working in the intelligence

 19 communities specifically focused on anti-money

 20 laundering and anti-terrorist financing. I've done

 21 a lot of work with the financial service

 22 communities globally. All the biggest banks in the

 23 US, Canada, as well as Europe and several in Asia

 24 and Asia-Pacific. As well as a lot of the largest

 25 casinos in Atlantic City and Vegas, Macaw,
 94

 1 Singapore, and some of those properties.

 2 I'm a Minnesota native. I'm a patron of

 3 both Mille Lacs properties in Hinckley and the

 4 Grand Casino properties fortunately up in Tower,

 5 Minnesota. And so I'm a customer as well.

 6 Is money laundering, terrorist financing,

 7 an international problem, or is it a domestic issue

 8 and a challenge? It's not a drug challenge for

 9 Columbia. It's not a terrorist issue for the

 10 Middle East. It's here in our backyard.

 11 In the intelligence community, we were

 12 tasked with identifying, tracking and profiling

 13 those bad actors, and being able to work with

 14 financial service companies to identify them and

 15 cut off the money supply.

 16 What I can tell you is we're adding

 17 30,000 new profiles a month. It's a growing

 18 challenge. If we were to map that across the

 19 United States, here in this city, in Minneapolis,

 20 in northern Minnesota, in all of the areas where

 21 your tribal representation and states happen to be,

 22 it's a challenge there.

 23 So I guess what I was here to help

 24 Mr. Funmaker kind of understand, or maybe better

 25 qualify is: Is that a focus today for the
 95

 1 Commission? Is it a focus today for the regulatory

 2 bodies for the various tribes? And is that

 3 something that is a viable opportunity for

 4 Mr. Funmaker to look at pursuing as far as services

 5 to help each of the casinos identify and protect

 6 themselves for that type of a risk?

 7 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you for that.

 8 I got three things, just in the interest of time,

 9 and we'll say it very quickly.

 10 We're not in a position to provide any

 11 business advice in this setting. This is a

 12 government-to-government consultation. But our

 13 doors are always open to chat with any members of

 14 the Indian gaming community about, you know, kind

 15 of some of our experiences. And so we can -- we

 16 welcome further conversations down the road.

 17 Second, we're not in a position to

 18 endorse any -- any business or any, you know, any

 19 private outfit. And I know that's not the crux of

 20 your question, but -- the crux of your statement.

 21 But I do want to put -- and this comes out -- comes

 22 up a lot in terms we work with a lot of industry

 23 stakeholders, you know, regarding testing. But no

 24 matter how much we respect the work of various

 25 testing labs, we've got to be careful about
 96

 1 endorsing any one lab's -- lab's offerings. So we

 2 don't do that. And we always kind of hesitate --

 3 or we shy away from kind of weighing in on any

 4 specific business product in detail.

 5 But third, to kind of the general thrust

 6 of your question: Absolutely, this is something

 7 that the Commission is focused on. Our agency is

 8 mandated by law to implement IGRA to ensure the

 9 integrity of Indian gaming.

 10 So as the lead federal agency empowered

 11 and mandated to implement the law, we have a

 12 responsibility to work with tribes, tribal

 13 regulators, but also federal partners to ensure the

 14 integrity of Indian gaming.

 15 So we're mindful of other statutes that

 16 work hand-in-hand with IGRA, even though we don't

 17 implement those statutes. And we work with other

 18 agencies that do implement those statutes. So we

 19 work quite a bit with FinCEN. We work with IRS.

 20 We work with FBI. If there are issues that arise

 21 under Bank Secrecy Act, we make referrals as

 22 appropriate. That's part of what we do. But

 23 moreover, that's part of what every regulator in

 24 this room does. When Chairman George mentioned

 25 that tribes are the frontline regulators, we can
 97

 1 only do what we can do if we have a positive and

 2 open dialogue with our regulatory partners.

 3 So to answer your question, cyber

 4 security, financial security, that is absolutely

 5 what we're about as an agency. And we work with

 6 other agencies, as well as tribal partners, to

 7 ensure the integrity of Indian gaming.

 8 Anything else that our team wants to

 9 weigh in on that?

 10 MR. DINISHEK: And thank you. I

 11 appreciate that.

 12 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Absolutely.

 13 MR. DINISHEK: The gentleman talked about

 14 online gaming as being the next kind of generation,

 15 if you will. It's one of the biggest challenges

 16 right now in the industry is how do you vet and

 17 provide integrity and security around indirect

 18 types of activities. And that's something that the

 19 non-tribal gaming organizations are really

 20 struggling with. And certainly something that, as

 21 you guys look to kind of embrace that move in that

 22 direction, will certainly be a risk area to look

 23 at.

 24 But thank you for the clarification. I

 25 certainly appreciate that.
 98

 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And I should add,

 2 some of the biggest wins in financial -- in the

 3 financial security world came from issues that were

 4 flagged by tribal regulators. And so there are

 5 some good examples to point to on that in terms of

 6 concerns about money laundering that was raised by

 7 tribal regulators.

 8 So my hat's always off to our regulatory

 9 partners because, as we always point out, who has a

 10 greater interest in protecting tribal assets and

 11 operations than the tribes themselves. And so

 12 thank you for those comments.

 13 So any other comments, questions,

 14 concerns, before we wrap up?

 15 Catchall, like I said, as promised, if

 16 there's anything additional folks want to mention.

 17 I do want to mention that our written submission

 18 date deadline, as we mentioned before, is

 19 February 28th. We are committed to try to move

 20 forward with as much positive work this spring as

 21 possible. And so we do want to take all comments

 22 into account. But if on the drive home today you

 23 wish you had said something more, please feel free

 24 to email us. Go to NIGC.gov, submit additional

 25 comments. We're always open to that.
 99

 1 And so before turning it back over to my

 2 fellow commissioners for some closing statements, I

 3 just wanted to see if our host nation had any final

 4 wrap-up thoughts.

 5 MR. GEORGE: Yes, Chairman.

 6 I have a 28-year-old -- or 28-day-old

 7 daughter right now, so I'm in no hurry to get home.

 8 So I could sit here and talk all day or all

 9 evening.

 10 So one of the things I did in 2006 --

 11 2005, when I became a gaming commissioner was, I

 12 told my mom, "Hey, mom, I think I'm going to be a

 13 regulator." And she goes, "Well, you know what? I

 14 don't love you anymore. Because even I don't love

 15 regulators." So when she said that to me, I'm

 16 like, "Mom, really? You don't love regulators?"

 17 But since 2005, she's beginning to like me again

 18 because we're making progress. And she is a very

 19 likeable woman. And she definitely found a piece

 20 of her heart to let me back in. So thank you, mom.

 21 That's one of the things I always wanted to say on

 22 the record. If that's in Washington, D.C., on the

 23 record somewhere, "Mom, I love you. Ken George,

 24 Jr., Forest Potawatomi Gaming Commission,

 25 Milwaukee." What's the date?
 100

 1 All joking aside, I would like to thank

 2 everybody for being here. I'd like to thank the

 3 Commission, the NIGC Commission, for being here,

 4 along with supporting staff. And also Dustin

 5 Thomas, our -- used to work with us here in

 6 Milwaukee.

 7 One of the things we did when we were

 8 here before was, as we did, and maybe this will

 9 work at the national level, if we do look at it, is

 10 we looked at having a new system of internal

 11 control, you know, as we looked at it.

 12 And one of the things we looked at when

 13 we looked at it, because we inherited 858 internal

 14 controls here. You know, that was overregulation,

 15 beyond overregulation. And also our small property

 16 north of here in Carter, Wisconsin, had the same

 17 amount. And it's probably about as big as this

 18 room. Maybe just a little bit bigger than this

 19 room. So that was overregulated.

 20 One of the things we asked at that time

 21 was -- the management team is, Why do you write

 22 internal controls? Because the Gaming Commission

 23 told us to. You know, I think that's the big thing

 24 that we have to realize here is that we need to

 25 change. You know, the thing we have to do is, How
 101

 1 do we work with our management teams? How do we

 2 work to make Indian gaming better? Because we can

 3 sit here and talk about the national, you know,

 4 regs. We can sit here and talk about state regs.

 5 Blah, blah, blah. But, you know, it comes down to

 6 is that we got to watch our own house.

 7 You know, as regulators, we need to

 8 figure out how can we make ourselves better and how

 9 can we make our management teams better and make

 10 them take ownership of -- how are they going to

 11 comply to the mix that are in place that the

 12 regulatory bodies and the jurisdictional are -- and

 13 the gaming commissions that have the jurisdictions

 14 of this jurisdiction, which we have the

 15 jurisdiction here in Milwaukee, is that we need to

 16 understand our standards and our internal controls

 17 better than they do.

 18 You know, that's one of the things that

 19 we have to do is that here in Milwaukee, now

 20 there's -- and Dustin was a big part of it -- was

 21 now there's 158 internal controls here in this

 22 building. But now there's more policy and

 23 procedure in place to where the management team

 24 takes ownership of -- from a standpoint of the

 25 general manager saying, Okay, this is how I want to
 102

 1 manage this property as a general manager. And

 2 there's nothing regulatory about it. It's all

 3 management decision.

 4 So over 700 internal controls, because

 5 there was such a misunderstanding of what an

 6 internal control was, was the management team just

 7 kept writing internal controls that were management

 8 decisions, you know.

 9 And that's one of the things that we have

 10 done here in Milwaukee is the -- to take the onus

 11 away from the Gaming Commission of being the bad

 12 person. You know, because we've got that -- we've

 13 got that name because of that reason. You know,

 14 because we're the bad guys, so to speak. But we

 15 don't have to be the bad guy anymore. You know, we

 16 can use our minds of 28 years to 30 years of

 17 experience as regulators to say, Okay, we can do

 18 this better than the last 28 years.

 19 And we have to make sure we look at

 20 understanding our jurisdiction and what is allowed

 21 in our jurisdiction because we reacted a lot back

 22 in the day, since 2005 when my mom didn't like me.

 23 Was when our slot director, or whoever the heck

 24 went to G2E or NIGA trade show or any of these

 25 trade shows, they went with a blank check and they
 103

 1 come back with new machines that were in our

 2 loading dock four weeks later, two weeks later,

 3 they're ready to go on the floor. And we have to

 4 react to that with regulation.

 5 And that's one of the things that we have

 6 to look at is, as we move forward, how do we look

 7 at that? How do we change? I know the gentleman

 8 here says that, you know, IGRA doesn't cover that,

 9 or at that time, there's standards in there that

 10 are very old. Well, how do we do something about

 11 it? Because there's a lot of "we can't." You

 12 know, I think there's got to be a lot of "how can

 13 we?"

 14 You know, I think that's the problem that

 15 we have. And when we look at it is, if you give

 16 the management team a chance to blame you, they're

 17 going to blame you. You know, I think, as

 18 regulators, and the regulators in the room, and

 19 sorry for any management team members in here, is

 20 that, you know, we have to understand what our job

 21 is and what our roles are. You know, every person

 22 in here has a role from the NIGC all the way down

 23 to a surveillance operator. You know, and that's

 24 one of the things we have to understand is that

 25 with that role, you have to stay within that scope
 104

 1 of authority that is given to you by your -- as

 2 delegated to you by your executive council.

 3 So that's one of the things that we've

 4 done. Ad we definitely will share that information

 5 with anybody who wants it, is that we came up with

 6 a new system of internal controls here in Milwaukee

 7 that has changed our direction from where we were

 8 to now where we have a great working relationship

 9 with our management team here in Milwaukee and also

 10 in Carter.

 11 So that's one of the things we have to do

 12 is we have to evolve. We have to evolve from the

 13 years of experience that we've learned. And if we

 14 don't evolve from the experience we learned, shame

 15 on us. Because we have the information. There's

 16 28 years of information somewhere. And each in

 17 one of our -- each in one of our jurisdictions

 18 somewhere, and also up in Washington, D.C.

 19 So, you know, the information that we

 20 have, I think when we do consultations, I think we

 21 can become better instead of confrontational, you

 22 know, saying this, saying that. I think let -- we

 23 can spend our time wisely on looking for ways we

 24 can do it instead of ways we can't do it.

 25 And I think that's one of the things that
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 1 we've learned as a gaming commission. And that

 2 we've -- we've become very -- that's a very

 3 important part of our organization is that we need

 4 to make sure we understand what our jurisdiction

 5 is.

 6 So just a final comment again with the

 7 online gaming is that, as we move forward into the

 8 evolution of gaming, as we call it, is that there's

 9 four levels of understanding what iGaming is or

 10 online gaming is.

 11 So there's two differences. Internet

 12 gaming and there's internet gambling. So gaming is

 13 what's happening today. And gambling is, What do

 14 you need from a federal legislation level to

 15 pass to allow internet gaming in the United States?

 16 So that's what the NIGA principles are

 17 that the NIGA has all four of the seven principles

 18 that they like to see in federal legislation is

 19 that they would've liked to allow internet gaming

 20 -- or gambling.

 21 Internet gaming has been exploited by the

 22 corporate gaming. The corporate gaming entities.

 23 They've found a way around us waiting for federal

 24 legislation to pass. So right now there's seven

 25 types of iGaming that's happening today already
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 1 that the corporate gaming is making millions and

 2 millions of dollars off. Even billions. So all

 3 you have to do is Google it to find out.

 4 So that's one of the things we need to

 5 make sure we do is -- now there's an eighth

 6 category that we're looking at, and the gentleman

 7 talked about it, was PASPA, the sports betting --

 8 repeal of the sports betting law that's been in

 9 place. You know, that's one of the things that

 10 we'd be looking at. And that's very hot on NIGA's

 11 agenda here at the next trade show. And they

 12 support it. If you get a chance to read it, read

 13 it, because if it does get overturned, it's

 14 definitely going to be an eye-opening experience in

 15 how we're going to compete against that.

 16 So the four levels of understanding.

 17 Like I said, I got a 28-year-old -- 28-day-old

 18 daughter at home, so I'm going to take this time,

 19 as much as I can, to try to get the information

 20 that we have that we're willing to share with you

 21 guys.

 22 So internet gaming, internet gambling,

 23 two different things. So if you hear "internet

 24 gaming," it's already happening today. Internet

 25 gambling, you have to have federal legislation to
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 1 pass before we can do it.

 2 So understanding. How do we understand

 3 it? So from a tribal structure standpoint, you got

 4 four different levels of understanding. You have

 5 tribal leadership is one. Two, you have executive

 6 management teams. Three, you have your regulators.

 7 And four, you have outside agencies, including

 8 NIGA. You know, all the alphabet soups that are

 9 out there.

 10 And all the vendors. Any vendor that's

 11 out there that trying to be become -- that wants to

 12 become part of doing business in Indian Country,

 13 and to scare Indian Country into saying, You got to

 14 be ready for internet gaming when it happens. How

 15 many people have heard that? You know, we've heard

 16 it millions and millions of times at every

 17 conference you go to in the last two years. You

 18 got to be ready when they're ready to turn the

 19 switch.

 20 So tribal leadership. How do they

 21 understand internet gaming or internet gambling?

 22 They don't. Because they understand it from a

 23 level of compacts, dealing with the State of

 24 Wisconsin, dealing with the NIGC. You know, they

 25 say, Well, I'm not going to pay that -- I'm not
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 1 going to pay our compact gaming if you -- if this

 2 part of it says you can't allow any of this gaming

 3 into the states. Okay, that's how they understand

 4 it. They understand policy. They understand

 5 grants. They understand that from a high level --

 6 high-level situation. I don't understand it. You

 7 know, I can say in faith, like, I understand it,

 8 but I don't. I'm a regulator.

 9 So we have to make sure we understand

 10 together, how do we -- how do we understand? As an

 11 industry, how do we move forward as an industry?

 12 Because we're all part of the Indian gaming

 13 industry, like it or not. And we have to

 14 understand, you know, as we move forward, the game

 15 is changing.

 16 In executive management, if anybody in

 17 executive management says they understand internet

 18 gaming or any -- any internet gaming platforms,

 19 they're lying because none of them have done it

 20 before. Milwaukee hasn't done it. Carter hasn't

 21 done it. So none of our management teams have ever

 22 managed any kind of iGaming platform. So how do

 23 they understand it? If they're saying they

 24 understand it, tell them to explain it to you.

 25 Because they don't and none of them did it. We're
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 1 all in the same boat.

 2 As regulators, we have the intel, so we

 3 have to background these people. All right? How

 4 do we use that information to those first two

 5 levels of understanding, tribal leadership,

 6 executive management? Sometimes we got to save

 7 themselves from themselves as regulators.

 8 Outside agencies, you know, they're there

 9 just to make money. You know, how do we -- how do

 10 we tell the difference between who's our friends

 11 and who's just going to take advantage of us?

 12 Because we know who's been taking advantage of us

 13 for the last 28 years as vendors, as regulators.

 14 We have that information as regulators. We got

 15 background information on them.

 16 So those are the four levels of

 17 understanding. We all understand differently from

 18 a tribal-structured standpoint. We all have to sit

 19 in a room, which we did here at Forest County, to

 20 say, Okay, how do we all understand what our threat

 21 is in the industry? And we sat down and we

 22 brainstormed it.

 23 You know, there's a lot of egos that were

 24 hurt. There was a lot of egos that didn't want to

 25 say they understood it, and they sat there and they
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 1 talked and talked and talked for two hours. And it

 2 sounded like they understood it, but they didn't.

 3 You know, I think that's one of the

 4 things we have to make sure we understand is the

 5 future of Indian gaming is changing. And we have

 6 to make sure we use our collective heads and the

 7 leadership of NIGC as we move forward. I know

 8 we've made -- you guys have made a lot of progress

 9 and a lot of initiatives. You know, I applaud you

 10 for that, and I applaud you not to stop. You know,

 11 I encourage you to keep going because we're looking

 12 to you for assistance. You know, we're the

 13 frontline, the regulatory bodies, but we're looking

 14 to you for assistance. And we don't want to be

 15 wasting our time, you know, talking about other

 16 things to where we can become better and stronger

 17 to compete against our competitors. And to look

 18 out for everyone. 400-some tribes that are in the

 19 United States. We got to look out for 400 and

 20 whatever tribes that are there.

 21 MR. FUNMAKER: 38.

 22 MR. GEORGE: 438 tribes. We need to look

 23 out for those. Not just the people who can pay us

 24 $25,000, $30,000, $50,000. We need to look out for

 25 them. That's our industry. That says "Indian,"
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 1 right?

 2 MR. FUNMAKER: Well, I want to back you

 3 up. My company's going to do in conjunction with

 4 this young man here, and the rest of those people,

 5 is we're going to study that gambling portion you

 6 talked about. You said there's already people

 7 making money. They're not going to allow us to do

 8 anything unless we have our ducks in order, which

 9 is all the management, all the IT ideas, everything

 10 that matches theirs and beyond. Then you apply.

 11 Does that sound right? Somebody's already doing

 12 it, but we have to see how they're doing it. Then

 13 we have to do it better. And then we apply. Does

 14 that make sense?

 15 That's what -- that's how I see it as an

 16 entrepreneur. That's what I'm going to do. I look

 17 for business. You may laugh there, young man, but

 18 that's what I mean, you know.

 19 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: I'll tell you what

 20 I'm smiling about. I mean, the topic is absolutely

 21 apropos in terms of knowing the future of -- at

 22 least not being left behind. Indian Country not

 23 being left behind. But what I'm laughing about is,

 24 you know, absolute respect to my elders, you know,

 25 I love the vision that my elders are showing. I
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 1 would love to see some younger folks saying the

 2 same things. And no disrespect to elders, but I'm

 3 like, you know, if we're talking about the future,

 4 you know, we need to invest more in youth

 5 leadership.

 6 So that's what I'm kind of smiling about.

 7 And just nothing but respect to the elders. But,

 8 you know, when we talk about the future, you know,

 9 each generation has an obligation to inspire and

 10 motivate the younger folks. So it would be -- I

 11 mean, not that you're -- I mean, what, you're in

 12 early 40s, something -- sir? I'm going off topic.

 13 MR. FUNMAKER: 71.

 14 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: You carry it well.

 15 But that's what I'm smiling about.

 16 MR. FUNMAKER: Thank you. Thank you.

 17 But I do back you up and that's how I see it as a

 18 company, as an entrepreneur. I'm going to talk

 19 with that man there, and I know he's with me,

 20 unless he speared the company, the big company, and

 21 to be able to analyze the gambling portion, what my

 22 brother spoke about. And I don't know whether

 23 Potawatomi -- because I know Ho-Chunk won't do it

 24 with me. Somebody's got to be a prototype. And

 25 then once we put everything together, then we'll be
 113

 1 ready to submit. And maybe from a legislative

 2 standpoint, that's where you guys will come in and

 3 submit, you know, all the technology that we have

 4 and we're ready to go to that next step. Does that

 5 make sense? It does to me.

 6 Anyway, I mean, I had the common sense

 7 that you're talking about. And that's my

 8 background is management. I got my degree in

 9 theology, but my background was in management and

 10 finance.

 11 And so that's how I'm going to approach

 12 it. Then I'm going to give it to you, or I'll give

 13 it to Potawatomi to consider what we have and to

 14 what we're going to try to do on our dime to figure

 15 it out and then to go forward. Instead of dealing

 16 -- you know, you deal with tribal councils, you're

 17 just going to deal with one individual, myself, and

 18 then I'm going to bring it to the --

 19 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: But with all

 20 respect, I want to make clear that we're -- we want

 21 Forest County, as the host nation, to have the

 22 opportunity to provide closing comments. So I

 23 don't want to cut into that.

 24 MR. FUNMAKER: Well, yeah, hold on now.

 25 He knows darn well that we had a chance for this
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 1 property for Ho-Chunk before they did. They came

 2 to us for this property. Do you remember that?

 3 Did you know Joe Pilasnik?

 4 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Okay.

 5 MR. FUNMAKER: No, no, no.

 6 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Change of subject.

 7 MR. FUNMAKER: This is relevant. This is

 8 relevant. Those folks didn't have a dime, just

 9 like us. We didn't have a dime. I used to roll a

 10 tire around the mission. A tire, for

 11 entertainment. So I lived that other life. And I

 12 respect the young people. And when I talk to

 13 Ho-Chunk young people, our managers, I tell them

 14 that I'm proud of what they're doing.

 15 Academically, they have it together, just like you

 16 folks. You're academic. And that's very cool.

 17 You got a certain process.

 18 But I'm just, you know, backing up

 19 because if he doesn't know the history, they asked

 20 Ho-Chunk first whether we wanted this land. And

 21 our tribal chairman said, No, it'll never happen.

 22 Well, they were lucky enough to be able to say,

 23 Yeah, we'll do it. So they got this property here.

 24 So there.

 25 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And I appreciate
 115

 1 that. Let me just say, as I started, we're happy

 2 to be in a region with so many strong nations. And

 3 so, you know, we mentioned Menominee. We mentioned

 4 Ho-Chunk. We mentioned Potawatomi. Obviously,

 5 we've mentioned Oneida. We mentioned Ojibwa. A

 6 lot of strong people in this neck of the woods.

 7 Today we are being hosted by Forest

 8 County Potawatomi. I appreciate those comments.

 9 But I do want to make sure that, in terms of final

 10 words, Mr. George, I don't want to cut you off.

 11 Chairman.

 12 MR. GEORGE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 13 Just to finish up is that if there's any

 14 information or anything that you may need from us

 15 of the discussions that we do had -- or that we did

 16 have here, we're definitely open to sharing that

 17 information with anybody that's here today. And

 18 we're looking for to moving it forward as well.

 19 So with that said, I'll respectfully give

 20 it back to you, Mr. Chairman and the Commission.

 21 We appreciate you again for being here. And for

 22 our jurisdiction, we're definitely taking charge of

 23 our jurisdiction of what we're allowing in here.

 24 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: Thank you so much,

 25 Chairman. I'm going to turn it over to my fellow
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 1 Commissioners for final words. But again, with

 2 deepest gratitude, we so very much appreciate the

 3 blessing that you provided this morning, as well as

 4 the honor song by Mr. David.

 5 I'm going to turn it over to my fellow

 6 Commissioners.

 7 COMMISSIONER SIMERMEYER: Thanks,

 8 Chairman. I just want to say, you know, thank you

 9 to Forest County Potawatomi for this facility that

 10 we have here. And also for sharing your story

 11 about the regulatory reform that you went through

 12 in that process. It's interesting to hear. It's

 13 also really enlightening to see that you have that

 14 process. And the integrity and culture that you

 15 have here, it's just apparent. So as a fellow

 16 regulator, thank you for sharing that story.

 17 I also want to say thank you to the other

 18 comments that were very concise and nuanced.

 19 There's some really complicated topics that we've

 20 been grappling with in our Agency. And I think

 21 that they were really stated in a really helpful

 22 way that's going to help inform our decision-making

 23 process. So thank you so much for those.

 24 And for some of the broader vision-type

 25 statements that were made. I think it really
 117

 1 reflects a lot of the -- you know, there are

 2 certain limitation in terms of our

 3 government-to-government relationship. There are

 4 certain sort of spiritual and cultural bearings

 5 that some folks had mentioned today that I think

 6 are really important to any discussion. And so

 7 thank you for sharing those.

 8 And I also wanted to say, since Chairman

 9 George brought it up earlier, to say, and I think I

 10 speak for a lot of folks in our Agency, thank you

 11 for mentioning Mr. Thomas who works with us here at

 12 the Agency. I know him and his family are

 13 Ho Shoshone (phonetic), but he's a really important

 14 part of the leadership team at the National Indian

 15 Gaming Commission. And I know he has roots here.

 16 And, you know, professionally, and with folks here,

 17 he's done an excellent job of just getting the

 18 respect and providing some real institutional

 19 knowledge at the federal level. So we want to say

 20 thank you for the influence you had on him and any

 21 leadership that he brings to our agency.

 22 And a final thing because I want to give

 23 a really heartfelt gratitude to Mr. David and

 24 Chairman George for the honor song early on. That

 25 was a really -- a real blessing that you gave to
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 1 the commission, and something that, you know, is a

 2 humbling part of this experience. So thank you

 3 very much for that.

 4 VICE CHAIR ISOM-CLAUSE: So I know I just

 5 keep repeating our thank you's, but, you know, I do

 6 think it bears repeating that we really, really

 7 appreciate your hosting us here and to all of you

 8 for being here as well. It's been an credibly

 9 productive session today. I think we've had some

 10 very insightful comments and as well as folks'

 11 perspective on things overall. And it's going to

 12 give us a lot to work with when we go and consider

 13 this.

 14 We're also looking forward to written

 15 comments by February 28th. So we are at the end of

 16 our in-person consultation sessions. So we know

 17 it's not a whole lot longer for the written

 18 comments, but we are very much looking forward to

 19 reading those.

 20 And it's really been a pleasure being

 21 here. We're ending on a high note. I think this

 22 has been one of our best sessions. So really

 23 appreciate you all for making us feel welcome here,

 24 for the honor song, for the blessings, for all the

 25 great comments. Thank you all.
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 1 CHAIRMAN CHAUDHURI: And thank you. Just

 2 it's been a beautiful day. And it's an honor to be

 3 here. I actually have it written in my notes. You

 4 mention Dustin. Because we're very thankful for

 5 the fact that you're able to hopefully -- I mean,

 6 maybe it's just a loan. You might take him back, I

 7 don't know. But we're not giving him up without a

 8 fight. He's been incredible at the Agency.

 9 But many thanks to everybody in this room

 10 for taking the time out of your days to share your

 11 thoughts and to hopefully learn and listen to one

 12 another. Really appreciate it. Many thanks to our

 13 team for putting together this consultation. I

 14 agree, I think this is ending on such a high note.

 15 This is our last consultation of this season.

 16 And, you know, on a personal note, my

 17 statutory term ends the end of April. And so

 18 this -- I don't know if this will be my last

 19 consultation. It likely will be, but it definitely

 20 will be my last consultation in my statutory term.

 21 I very much appreciate the ongoing work that we've

 22 all done together. And I am very, very optimistic

 23 and encouraged about the future.

 24 All jokes aside about, you know, the

 25 elders speaking about the future. It really is the
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 1 elders who got us to where we are. And it's the

 2 elders who are paving the way. But every time I

 3 see young people talk about the changing landscape

 4 of economic development in Indian Country, it makes

 5 my heart full that we're in good hands. And we see

 6 that a lot when we're out on the road.

 7 So many, many thanks for our collective

 8 work together. And safe drive home. Thank you

 9 again for hosting us. Mvto. And with that, the

 10 session's closed. Mvto.

 11 (Proceedings concluded at 3:45 p.m.)

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 1 C E R T I F I C A T E

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 6 I, MARGARET M. MITCHELL, a Certified

 7 Realtime Reporter, Registered Merit Reporter, do hereby

 8 certify that I reported all proceedings adduced in the

 9 foregoing matter, and that the foregoing transcript

 10 pages constitutes a full, true and accurate record of

 11 said proceedings to the best of my ability.

 12

 13 I further certify that I am neither

 14 related to counsel for any party to the proceedings, nor

 15 have any interest in the outcome of the proceedings.

 16

 17 IN WITNESS HEREOF, I have hereunto set my

 18 hand this 5th day of March, 2018.

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 22 Peggy Mitchell, RMR, CRR

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