1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

 FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS

2 EASTERN DIVISION

3

 LISA CALVENTE, )

4 )

 Plaintiff, )

5 )

 -vs- ) No. 20-cv-3366

6 )

 SALMA GHANEM and DEPAUL )

7 UNIVERSITY, )

 )

8 Defendants. )

9 The ZOOM deposition of A. GABRIEL

10 ESTEBAN, called for examination, pursuant to the

11 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure for the United

12 States District Courts pertaining to the taking

13 of depositions, taken before Suzanne Burke, a

14 Certified Shorthand Reporter in the State of

15 Illinois, at Chicago, Illinois, on February 16,

16 2021, A.D., commencing at the hour of 9:02 a.m.

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1 APPEARANCES:

2 FITZGERALD BRAMWELL LAW OFFICES

 BY: MR. FITZGERALD BRAMWELL

3 225 West Washington Street

 Suite 2200

4 Chicago, Illinois 60606

 (312) 924-2884

5 Bramwell@fitzgeraldbramwell.com,

6 appeared on behalf of the plaintiff;

7 COZEN O'CONNOR PC

 BY: MR. ANNA WERMUTH

8 123 North Wacker Drive

 Suite 1800

9 Chicago, Illinois 60606

 (312) 382-3100

10 Awermuth@cozen.com

11 -and12 DEPAUL UNIVERSITY

 OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL

13 BY: MS. KATHRYN STIEBER

 One East Jackson Boulevard

14 Chicago, Illinois 60604,

15 appeared on behalf of the defendants.

16 ALSO PRESENT:

17 MS. LISA CALVENTE

 MS. SALMA GHANEM

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24

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1 I N D E X

2 WITNESS: PAGE

3 A. GABRIEL ESTEBAN

4 Examination By Mr. Bramwell 4

 Examination By Mr. Bramwell (Resumed) 143

5 Examination By Ms. Wermuth 188

6 E X H I B I T S

7 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NOS. PAGE

8 Exhibit 1 Handbook 30

 Exhibit 2 email to President Esteban

9 from B. Boeck attaching EEO documentation 53

 Exhibit 3 email to S. Stoute from

10 A. Murphy attaching appeal information 79

 Exhibit 4 email to G. Esteban from

11 K. Stieber Due Jan 31 Calvente Appeal

 Response 85

12 Exhibit 5 letter denying appeal 82

 Exhibit 6 Appeals Committee Report 75

13 Exhibit 7 letter from A. Murphy to

 UBPT 113

14

15 CERTIFIED QUESTIONS

16 pages 84 and 88

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1 (Witness sworn.)

2 A. GABRIEL ESTEBAN,

3 called as a witness herein, having been first

4 duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

5 EXAMINATION

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. All right. Can you please state and

8 spell your name for the record?

9 A. My name is A. Gabriel, G-a-b-r-i-e-l,

10 Esteban, E-s-t-e-b-a-n.

11 Q. Okay. Pronounced Esteban?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. And what does the A stand for?

14 A. Amado, A-m-a-d-o.

15 Q. Mr. Esteban, you've just taken an oath

16 to tell the truth. Do you understand that?

17 A. Yes, I do.

18 Q. Okay. You're the president of DePaul

19 University?

20 A. That's correct.

21 Q. And prior to serving as president of

22 DePaul University, you were president of Seton

23 Hall University?

24 A. That's correct.

Page 5

1 Q. I grew up in Staten Island actually.

2 A. Oh, okay.

3 Q. So not too far away.

4 You've been deposed before, I take

5 it?

6 A. No. This is my first time.

7 Q. You've been the president of two

8 universities, and you have never been deposed

9 before?

10 A. Yes, that's correct. Provost twice,

11 also.

12 Q. Provost twice, also. I'm impressed.

13 You have led a charmed life.

14 All right. Well, then we'll go over

15 some ground rules. You've just taken an oath to

16 tell the truth. Do you understand that?

17 A. That's correct, yes.

18 Q. Okay. I'm going to ask you questions

19 and you're going to give me answers that are

20 true, complete, and accurate. Are you agreed?

21 A. Agree.

22 Q. Okay. The court reporter is taking down

23 everything that we say. Therefore, we need to

24 take care not to talk over each other. I know

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1 that that's normal in human interaction. We just

2 need to take particular care particularly since

3 we're doing this over Zoom just to make sure the

4 record is clean. So can we agree?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. You need to give clear answers.

7 Because the court reporter is taking everything

8 down, words like uh-huh and uh-uh don't show up

9 well on the transcript. So if I say you need to

10 give a clear answer, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

11 I just, you know, want to make sure that the

12 court reporter characterizes it properly. Are we

13 agreed?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Okay. If you don't understand a

16 question, please ask me to clarify that question,

17 and I will try to do so. Can we agree on that?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. If you answer a question, I'm going to

20 assume, and it will be assumed by everybody, that

21 you understood that question. Are we agreed?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Obviously counsel is here this morning.

24 Are you being represented in your personal

Page 7

1 capacity or in your capacity as the president of

2 DePaul University?

3 A. In my capacity as president of DePaul

4 University.

5 Q. Okay. And, you know, counsel, may

6 choose to object this morning. Certainly if she

7 does, we'll let her get whatever objection she

8 wants on the record, but you're still going to

9 have to answer the question. Do you understand?

10 A. Yes, I understand.

11 Q. Okay. And unfortunately, my mother is a

12 wonderful human being. She has many, many

13 wonderful qualities. One of the qualities that

14 is not very good is her hearing, and that's, I

15 think, the quality I unfortunately inherited. I

16 wish I inherited more of my mother's qualities.

17 But I need to ask you to keep your voice up. Can

18 I ask you to do that, please?

19 A. Yes, you can.

20 Q. Okay. Thank you.

21 Some of the documents that you may

22 see today are marked confidential pursuant to a

23 protective order entered by the court. If you

24 receive a document marked confidential pursuant

Page 8

1 to that order, do you understand that you have to

2 delete and destroy it following the deposition?

3 A. Yes, I do.

4 Q. Unless Ms. Wermuth says otherwise. As

5 you're the president, she may grant special

6 dispensation.

7 Is there anything preventing you

8 from testifying truthfully, completely, and

9 accurately here today?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Are you taking any medication or other

12 drug that affects your ability to testify

13 truthfully, completely, and accurately?

14 A. No, I'm not.

15 Q. Have you had anything alcoholic to drink

16 in the past eight hours?

17 A. No, I haven't.

18 Q. That's the wonderful thing about taking

19 a 9:00 a.m. dep, the answer is always -- I have

20 yet to get a yes answer to that question, but I

21 ask it anyway.

22 Are you feeling sick at all today?

23 A. No, I'm not.

24 Q. What did you do to prepare for today's

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1 deposition?

2 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry, what was the

3 question?

4 MR. BRAMWELL: Sure.

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

6 Q. What did you do to prepare for today's

7 deposition?

8 A. I read the interrogatories sent and just

9 another document that -- and I met with my

10 counsel.

11 Q. Have all the documents that you reviewed

12 been produced in discovery?

13 A. Yes, they have.

14 Q. Okay. Have you spoken with anyone at

15 DePaul about your testimony? I'm sorry. Okay.

16 Sorry feedback.

17 Have you spoken with anyone at

18 DePaul about your testimony or about

19 Dr. Calvente's lawsuit?

20 A. Only my legal counsels.

21 Q. Okay. So by your legal counsels, you

22 mean in-house counsel and outside counsel?

23 A. That's correct.

24 Q. And, I'm sorry, sir, I love that you

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1 have a very calm demeanor, but could you please

2 keep your voice up.

3 A. Okay.

4 Q. I've got my volume up as high as it can

5 go. I just need some help.

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. Thank you.

8 So you haven't spoken with Salma

9 Ghanem about this litigation?

10 A. No, I haven't. I mean, just that I told

11 her that I was being -- both of us were being

12 deposed.

13 Q. Okay.

14 A. That's the extent of it.

15 Q. When did you have that conversation with

16 her?

17 A. I had my weekly meeting with her

18 yesterday, and she asked me about my schedule for

19 today.

20 Q. Okay. And this is a question that has

21 been bugging me for a little while. How do you

22 pronounce Dr. Ghanem's last the name?

23 A. I pronounce it as Ghanem.

24 Q. Ghanem. Okay.

Page 11

1 A. Yeah.

2 Q. Has anybody promised you anything for

3 your testimony here today?

4 A. No, no one has.

5 Q. Have you spoken to anyone at the College

6 of Communication about your testimony?

7 A. No, I haven't.

8 Q. What about Dr. Calvente's lawsuit?

9 A. No, I haven't.

10 Q. Okay. Where did you go to undergrad?

11 A. University of the Philippines.

12 Q. And when did you graduate?

13 A. 1981.

14 Q. And then what degree did you receive?

15 A. Bachelor's of science and mathematics.

16 Q. All right. And did you do any graduate

17 work?

18 A. Yes. I have three graduate degrees.

19 Q. All right. Where are those graduate

20 degrees from, what are they in, and when did you

21 earn them?

22 A. My MBA was from the University of the

23 Philippines. I got that in 1983. I have a

24 bachelor's of science -- master's of science in

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1 Japanese business studies from Chaminade

2 University of Honolulu, and I earned that in

3 1986. And I have a PhD in administration, focus

4 on marketing from the University of California

5 Irvine, and I earned that in 1993.

6 Q. Thank you.

7 When did you enter the academy?

8 A. In the U.S.? Is that what you mean?

9 Q. Thank you for clarifying. When did you

10 enter the academy, I guess, initially?

11 A. I was a lecturer at my alma mater

12 University of the Philippines from 1983 to 1985.

13 Q. Okay. And what did you do after that?

14 A. Got my second master's degree.

15 Q. Okay. And you earned that in 1986?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And what did you do after you earned

18 your second master's?

19 A. I worked in the private sector.

20 Q. Okay. Doing what?

21 A. I was an investment analyst in corporate

22 planning.

23 Q. For whom?

24 A. Summit Hill Corporation.

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1 Q. And you were there from when to when?

2 A. '87, January '87, I believe is when I

3 started, to '88.

4 Q. Okay. And what did you do after that?

5 A. Started my PhD program.

6 Q. Okay. At UC Irvine?

7 A. UC Irvine.

8 Q. Okay. And you went straight through?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. '88 to '93 full time?

11 A. '88 to '92.

12 Q. Okay.

13 A. Then I left ABD, all but dissertation,

14 and started my first teaching job at the

15 University of Houston Victoria.

16 Q. Okay. How long were you at University

17 of Houston?

18 A. Four years, '92 to '96.

19 Q. Okay. What titles did you hold there?

20 A. I was an assistant professor initially,

21 visiting assistant professor, because I was ABD,

22 assistant professor; and then I was made

23 part-time half-time institutional research and

24 planning officer.

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1 Q. Okay. And you left in '96?

2 A. '96.

3 Q. Okay. And then where did you go?

4 A. Arkansas Tech University.

5 Q. All right. What were you doing there?

6 A. I was made associate vice president for

7 academic affairs, and I oversaw institutional

8 research and planning. And I was an associate

9 professor in marketing.

10 Q. Were your responsibilities there more

11 administrative or more teaching or a mix of both?

12 A. Primarily administrative. It was

13 full-time administrative.

14 Q. Okay. Is that your phone buzzing?

15 A. No, it's not.

16 Q. How long were you at Arkansas Tech?

17 A. From 1996 to 2001.

18 Q. Okay. And then where did you go?

19 A. I went to the University of Central

20 Arkansas.

21 Q. Okay. And how long were you there?

22 A. From 2001 to 2007.

23 Q. And what were you doing there?

24 A. I started as dean of the College of

Page 15

1 Business, and I was a professor of marketing.

2 Then in February, I believe, 2011 I was named

3 provost.

4 Q. And you were provost from '03 to '07?

5 A. That's correct.

6 Q. And then where did you go?

7 A. From there I went to Seton Hall

8 University.

9 Q. Okay. And how long were you at Seton

10 Hall?

11 A. I started as provost in 2007. Became

12 interim president July 1st, 2010, president

13 January 2011; and I was there until 2017.

14 Q. Okay. And then you came to DePaul?

15 A. I came to DePaul.

16 Q. And I assume, but I could be incorrect,

17 your responsibilities at the University of

18 Arkansas were primarily administrative?

19 A. University of Central Arkansas, that's

20 correct.

21 Q. I'm sorry. And then Seton Hall

22 University, again, all administrative?

23 A. Primarily administrative.

24 Q. What else were you doing?

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1 A. I taught a class, and I was scheduled to

2 teach another class.

3 Q. All right. How does Seton Hall compare

4 to DePaul?

5 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry, just very

6 quickly objection, vague, relevance.

7 Go ahead, you can answer.

8 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

9 Q. You can answer.

10 A. Yeah. On what basis do I compare them?

11 Q. Okay. So -- and forgive me, I don't

12 have your background in administration. You

13 know, there are research universities and

14 different gradations of research universities,

15 there are teaching universities. There are, I

16 imagine, other types of universities.

17 You know, I understand DePaul is a

18 teaching -- I'm sorry, yeah, it's a teaching

19 university, right?

20 A. We're considered a doctoral institution,

21 but the primary focus is still teaching.

22 Q. Okay.

23 A. And it's similar to Seton Hall in that

24 manner.

Page 17

1 Q. What are the ranking and tiers of Seton

2 Hall and DePaul?

3 MS. WERMUTH: Objection.

4 BY THE WITNESS:

5 A. Can you clarify rankings?

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. Actually strike that, strike that.

8 Was DePaul a step up from Seton Hall

9 in your -- to your way of thinking?

10 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

11 relevance.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

13 Q. You can answer.

14 MS. WERMUTH: Go ahead.

15 BY THE WITNESS:

16 A. Okay. In terms of size, DePaul is

17 larger.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. Seton Hall was -- when I was there, we

21 decided to open a medical school. So -- and it's

22 since opened. So in terms of programs, Seton

23 Hall had a number of programs in the health and

24 medical sciences which DePaul does not have. So

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1 in terms of scope of programs, they had slightly

2 wider because they were in the health sciences,

3 health medical sciences. But size-wise DePaul

4 was larger.

5 Q. What drew you to DePaul?

6 A. The mission.

7 Q. What about the mission?

8 A. It resonated with both me and my wife

9 who we serve. I looked at the percentage of

10 students who are eligible, percentage of students

11 who are first in their family to go to college,

12 and those are things that are important to me and

13 my wife. The basis for the founding of DePaul.

14 They were founded to serve immigrants who at that

15 time had no educational options, so that was both

16 very attractive to me and my wife. The size had

17 nothing to do with the institution.

18 Q. And remind me -- I'm sorry, I cut you

19 off. I'm terribly sorry. Were you finished?

20 A. No problem.

21 Q. Were you finished with your answer?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Remind me, is Seton Hall public or

24 private?

Page 19

1 A. It's a private institution.

2 Q. Okay. What drew you to the academy?

3 A. I never thought I'd end up in academy.

4 But once I started to teach, my first teaching

5 job was at a teaching university, and I really

6 enjoyed being able to mentor the students. And

7 my students were primarily -- a large segment

8 were nontraditional students.

9 University of Houston Victoria is

10 very different from most institutions, at least,

11 when I taught there. So they attracted more of

12 an adult population. So that was very

13 attractive. I mean, yeah, I was planning to

14 naturally stay a few years, then move back to the

15 private sector, but I got hooked after the first

16 teaching job.

17 Q. Now, teaching, though, is very different

18 than administration; would you agree?

19 A. To some degree, yes, it is different, in

20 that you interact primarily with the students.

21 As an administrator, at least, early on, I used

22 to teach a class or two a year.

23 Q. So then what drew you to administration?

24 A. I was asked to serve. I mean, I did not

Page 20

1 volunteer. The provost at my first teaching job

2 asked me to serve in an administrative role. And

3 he became my mentor, one of my mentors, moving

4 on. So he offered me possibility to become an

5 administrator, and that was a difficult call on

6 my piece, on my part.

7 Q. Why was it difficult?

8 A. Because I really enjoyed teaching.

9 Q. Do you still teach now?

10 A. No. My schedule doesn't allow me. It's

11 very challenging.

12 Q. I can imagine.

13 So is it fair to say that you've

14 seen a lot in your -- what, have you been in the

15 academy since '92, so that's almost what, '92,

16 2002, almost 30 years in academy. Is it fair to

17 say you've seen a lot?

18 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

19 You can answer.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. You can answer.

22 A. Yes, I've been at different

23 institutions. I've seen a lot.

24 Q. And you've been at DePaul for what,

Page 21

1 almost four years now?

2 A. Yes, this is my fourth year.

3 Q. Does the academic culture at DePaul vary

4 widely from the academic culture at your prior

5 institutions?

6 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

7 relevance.

8 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

9 Q. You can answer.

10 A. How would you define academic culture?

11 Q. Yeah. So the way that professors

12 interact with each other, the way that students

13 and professors interact, the way that tenured

14 professors interact with untenured tenure-track

15 professors, yeah.

16 MS. WERMUTH: Let me just -- I'm going

17 to reassert my objections as to vague and

18 relevance.

19 You can proceed.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. You can answer.

22 A. Yeah, every institution I've been at has

23 its own culture, whether it's solely academic or

24 culture of the institution. Sometimes it's

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1 difficult to discern. And that's true with the

2 publics. I've been at three public universities,

3 and this is my second private.

4 So is it different from other

5 institutions I've served at? Yes, but so was

6 Seton Hall's culture different from Central

7 Arkansas or Arkansas Tech or University of

8 Houston Victoria.

9 Q. Well, let's ask it this way. Would you

10 agree that the academy is generally -- and I know

11 I'm going to draw the objection, but we'll just

12 have to live with it.

13 Would you agree that the academy is

14 generally hierarchical?

15 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague and

16 relevance.

17 Go ahead.

18 BY THE WITNESS:

19 A. What do you mean at DePaul or other

20 institutions?

21 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

22 Q. Both.

23 A. At DePaul, it's probably the least

24 hierarchal I've seen.

Page 23

1 Q. Okay. So it may be the least

2 hierarchical. Is it still hierarchical, or does

3 that not matter?

4 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

5 relevance.

6 Go ahead.

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. You can answer.

9 A. I mean, it's just a matter of shades of

10 gray in my opinion. I mean, does it matter? My

11 role is to understand the culture of each place

12 and try to adopt the decision making to the

13 culture of that place.

14 MR. BRAMWELL: And, Ms. Wermuth, do you

15 want to just lodge a general objection on vague

16 and relevance on this line of questioning? It

17 will save us some time.

18 MS. WERMUTH: I don't know, because I

19 don't know exactly where you're going.

20 MR. BRAMWELL: Okay.

21 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

22 Q. Mr. Esteban -- I guess I should call you

23 Dr. Esteban.

24 A. It's all right.

Page 24

1 Q. Anyway, you said shades of gray. I

2 guess the question is -- well, maybe I'll ask you

3 this -- maybe I'll ask the question this way. If

4 you were mentoring an untenured, but tenure-track

5 faculty member who was just entering the academy,

6 how would you advise her to comport herself?

7 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

8 relevance. It's sort of a speculative

9 hypothetical.

10 If you can answer, go ahead.

11 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

12 Q. You can answer.

13 And, Ms. Wermuth -- the question --

14 the advice if you can answer is --

15 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry, go ahead and

16 proceed.

17 MR. BRAMWELL: Do not coach the witness.

18 BY THE WITNESS:

19 A. Yeah. I would speak from my experience

20 at my first teaching job, because I'm very

21 familiar with that. I was more familiar. It was

22 very -- I'd say you look at local guidelines of

23 your department or college, so to speak, in terms

24 of what the requirements are for promotion and

Page 25

1 tenure, make sure you understand them.

2 And my philosophy has always been to

3 look at what's minimally expected and exceed it

4 by a very wide margin. So there's no question as

5 to your -- when your time comes up for promotion

6 and tenure.

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. And DePaul, the criteria is a degree of

9 proficiency in three categories; teaching,

10 research, and service, correct?

11 A. That's correct.

12 Q. Okay. How would you advise an

13 untenured, but tenure-track faculty member with

14 respect to interacting with her colleagues, her

15 tenured colleagues?

16 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

17 relevance, incomplete hypothetical.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. You can answer.

20 A. They're her colleagues, so you treat

21 them like -- when they're colleagues, they're

22 your coworkers. So I expect you to be able to

23 find ways to work together as colleagues.

24 Q. Would you expect the untenured

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1 tenure-track faculty member demonstrate a degree

2 of deference?

3 MS. WERMUTH: Object, vague, relevance,

4 incomplete hypothetical.

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

6 Q. You can answer.

7 A. How would you define deference?

8 Q. I'm pulling out my handy dictionary,

9 because it's just easiest for me.

10 Deference, yielding an opinion,

11 judgment, or wishes, courteous regard or respect.

12 And that's the definition by

13 Webster's New World College Dictionary, Fourth

14 Edition.

15 A. So I would expect being courteous, a

16 certain amount of respect, but it has to go both

17 ways as well.

18 Q. Would you expect the -- you asked me how

19 I would define deference. Do you have a

20 different definition of deference?

21 A. No. That, courteous and respect, but it

22 has to go both ways, as a new faculty member and

23 as a senior faculty member.

24 Q. How did you come to DePaul?

Page 27

1 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

2 Go ahead.

3 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

4 Q. You can answer.

5 A. What do you mean how did I come to

6 DePaul?

7 Q. Yeah. Sure. So you came to DePaul in

8 2017. You know, how, why? Why leave Seton Hall?

9 Why come to DePaul?

10 A. I was approached about it. I had -- at

11 that point I had no intention of leaving my -- of

12 Seton Hall. But I was approached by the search

13 firm about it.

14 Q. Okay.

15 A. And I was asked to consider.

16 Q. So, sorry, I can't speak, tongue-tied.

17 Only one cup of coffee this morning.

18 A headhunter contacted you and said,

19 hey, are you interested?

20 A. Yeah, yeah. And, also, I knew Father

21 Dennis, because we were in the big east together.

22 Q. Dennis Holtschneider?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. He seems like a decent guy.

Page 28

1 A. Yes, he is.

2 Q. All right. I have emailed both you and

3 Ms. Wermuth about ten minutes before we started a

4 copy of Exhibit No. 1. Have you received that?

5 A. It popped up on my inbox shortly before

6 I came on.

7 Q. All right. Fantastic. Can you please

8 open that up.

9 A. I won't be able to see anyone. I have

10 one screen.

11 Q. You need to go work at Cozen O'Connor.

12 Apparently they get two.

13 Let the record reflect I'm smiling

14 as I thought I was telling a joke and being

15 funny.

16 A. I have it open.

17 Q. That document is the DePaul faculty

18 handbook from 2018, 103 pages. Will you agree

19 that this is the DePaul faculty handbook from

20 2018, or do you want to review the entire thing?

21 A. Yeah, just skimming through it, I agree.

22 Q. Okay. Excellent.

23 Now, when did you start at DePaul?

24 A. 2017.

Page 29

1 Q. Okay.

2 A. July 1st, 2017.

3 Q. All right. So did you have any input in

4 creating this version of the faculty handbook?

5 A. This is handled out of the provost's

6 office.

7 Q. Okay. So the answer is no?

8 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry, go ahead.

9 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

10 Q. So the answer is no?

11 A. I may have talked to the provost at the

12 time. He would have informed me that they're

13 doing or making revisions to the faculty guide,

14 but that would be the extent of it.

15 Q. And that was Martin Den Boer at the

16 time?

17 A. Yes, that's correct.

18 MS. WERMUTH: Excuse me, Mr. Bramwell,

19 can I just -- for the record, I don't see any

20 Bates labeling on this version, so I just want

21 to -- want the record to reflect that Exhibit 1

22 doesn't appear that it was produced by either

23 party. I just am stating that for the record.

24 MR. BRAMWELL: All right. You know what

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1 we can do, Ms. Wermuth, because you're right. I

2 guess we should have something maybe a little bit

3 cleaner.

4 So let's replace that Exhibit 1 with

5 this replaced Exhibit 1. Let me make sure I got

6 the court reporter's email address on here.

7 (Document marked as Esteban Deposition

8 Exhibit 1 for identification.)

9 MR. BRAMWELL: All right. That should

10 be on its way. And this copy, Ms. Wermuth, and

11 thank you, is the copy that was attached to our

12 complaint, and so it has the docket on there.

13 This has the docket number on it. So although it

14 was not produced by any party, it's part of the

15 record, and maybe that's a better way to do this.

16 Because, Ms. Wermuth, you did admit in your

17 answer that the document that I'm now replacing

18 is a copy of the handbook.

19 MS. WERMUTH: Yeah. I just don't yet

20 have the email.

21 MR. BRAMWELL: The internet is slow

22 today.

23 MS. WERMUTH: Gabe, do you have the

24 new --

Page 31

1 THE WITNESS: No, I don't.

2 It just popped in.

3 MR. BRAMWELL: All right.

4 MS. WERMUTH: I still don't have it.

5 MR. BRAMWELL: Well, is it all right if

6 I can proceed with my questioning, because it's

7 -- well, or do you want to wait?

8 MS. WERMUTH: Well, I'm not sure why

9 Gabe has it and I don't.

10 Ah, now it's here. Here we go.

11 MR. BRAMWELL: Okay. That's fine.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

13 Q. Dr. Esteban, you said you were familiar

14 with this document, right?

15 A. Yes, I have seen it.

16 Q. Okay. Are you -- and you said you've

17 seen it. Are you familiar with it?

18 A. I've read the relevant parts for today.

19 Q. Well, since I haven't asked any

20 questions about it, I don't know what's relevant

21 for today. What parts are you familiar?

22 A. I read the rank and tenure and the

23 appeals section.

24 Q. So Chapter 3 and Chapter 5?

Page 32

1 A. Let me just make sure.

2 Yes.

3 Q. Okay. You're not familiar with the

4 other chapters in the handbook?

5 A. I read the document my first year here.

6 Q. Okay. And haven't had occasion

7 otherwise to pick it up?

8 A. No, no. Academic is the provost's

9 responsibility.

10 Q. What are the responsibilities of the

11 president at DePaul?

12 A. Oversight of the entire institution,

13 that includes everything from academics,

14 financial, fundraising, external relations,

15 athletics. Every part of the institution

16 basically.

17 Q. On each of those areas, approximately

18 how much time do you -- that's a horrible

19 question. Let me try it again.

20 Approximately how much of your time

21 do you spend on each of those areas?

22 A. There's no set time. It depends on the

23 specific time of year, date, for example. I

24 spend a lot of time traveling for alumni events

Page 33

1 to meet donors among others. So that may be --

2 depending on the month, it may be 50, 60 percent

3 of my time.

4 So a lot of it is external versus

5 internal.

6 Q. How much work do you do supervising the

7 various colleges and involving yourself in the

8 academics?

9 A. The colleges and schools are under the

10 provost. And as president, I meet with the

11 provost on a weekly basis, but it's not to talk

12 about specific details, typically about the

13 college. But more general topics that apply to

14 the academia in general.

15 Q. Such as what?

16 A. For example, we're looking at adding new

17 programs, so that would require some investments

18 or the allocation of existing resources. So I

19 talk to her about those topics.

20 When we created a new school of

21 diplomacy, that involved -- by diplomacy, that

22 involved discussions with that provost, Martin

23 Den Boer. So those tend to be the types of

24 discussions, budgets in general for the academic

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1 side.

2 Q. So your -- sorry, were you finished with

3 your answer?

4 A. Yeah. I mean, it was more that. If it

5 gets into the college level, we may have a

6 discussion about a dean who is up for renewal of

7 contract, for example. But typically that would

8 be the extent of how deep I go into discussions

9 of colleges or schools.

10 Q. Okay. You generally don't involve

11 yourself in tenure decisions?

12 A. I wait until the process plays out.

13 That if there's going to be an appeal, then I get

14 involved.

15 Q. Okay. Only when there's an appeal?

16 A. Typically, yes.

17 Q. Okay. You said typically, yes. Are

18 there instances where you involve yourself where

19 there's not an appeal?

20 A. No, I haven't at DePaul.

21 Q. Have you at other institutions?

22 A. Yes, as provost.

23 Q. Okay. Not as president?

24 A. Not as president.

Page 35

1 Q. If DePaul wants to terminate a

2 tenure-tract, but untenured faculty member, how

3 do they do that?

4 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

5 Go ahead.

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. You can answer.

8 A. There's a process laid out in the

9 handbook, and that determination is done by the

10 provost working with the dean and faculty in the

11 college.

12 Q. When did Dr. Ghanem become -- I'm sorry,

13 I did it again. I should probably look at you

14 instead of my documents. It might help me.

15 Please continue your answer.

16 A. Oh, no, I'm done. You were saying?

17 Q. Yeah. When did Dr. Ghanem become

18 provost?

19 A. She became acting provost in October of

20 2018.

21 Q. Okay. And then is she now provost

22 provost or is she still acting or interim?

23 A. She's interim provost.

24 Q. Okay. So she's interim provost. So

Page 36

1 it's acting provost, then interim provost and

2 then --

3 A. And then, yeah, we're in process doing a

4 review of her as interim provost.

5 Q. Okay. Is there a search committee to

6 find a full-time provost right now?

7 A. We're not doing a search. We're doing a

8 review.

9 Q. Okay. And so the -- all right. So I

10 asked you about terminating an untenured, but

11 tenure-track faculty member. And if I understand

12 your testimony correctly, follow the process in

13 the handbook; is that right?

14 A. Yeah, whatever the process. I'm not

15 involved in that process.

16 Q. Okay. You're not involved in the

17 process at all?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Or you're not involved in the process

20 until the end?

21 A. I have not yet received anything of an

22 appeal of an untenured faculty member unless

23 they've gone through the process, the whole

24 process. But if you're talking about a

Page 37

1 probationary faculty member, two, three years,

2 four years in who has been terminated, I haven't

3 been involved in that process at DePaul.

4 Q. Okay. So I think that -- and I'm glad

5 you mentioned that, because I think now we might

6 be talking about two different things. So I'd

7 like to now get a common vocabulary.

8 So obviously you have an untenured

9 faculty member who goes through the probationary

10 period, right?

11 A. Uh-huh.

12 Q. And they have two or three reviews; is

13 that correct, generally?

14 A. Yeah, there's a review depending on -- I

15 think it depends on the college the number of

16 times they're reviewed.

17 Q. Right. And they could be nonrenewed at

18 various points before they go up for tenure?

19 A. Yes, I believe that can be done.

20 Q. Okay. And you are not involved in any

21 of those nonrenewals unless there's an appeal; is

22 that right?

23 A. Yes. And even that, I'll have to look

24 at the handbook. I'm not sure how you appeal.

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1 If you're -- let's say after two years, if the

2 determination is made not to renew you, not sure

3 what the appeal process is for that nonrenewal,

4 because that's done at the local level.

5 Q. But you have not been involved in any

6 appeal -- or rather strike that. Let's start

7 again.

8 No appeal has come to your desk for

9 a nonrenewal; is that correct?

10 A. At that level, that's correct.

11 Q. Okay. And then you have people that go

12 up for tenure, right?

13 A. That's correct.

14 Q. And they go to -- they have their

15 college vote, and then there's the UBPT, and then

16 the provost makes a decision and then they can

17 appeal to you, right?

18 A. Yes, there's more. I mean, the dean.

19 You also have the personnel committee weighs in.

20 Q. Okay.

21 A. So you go through that whole process

22 that's spelled out in the handbook, and then it

23 comes to me.

24 Q. All right. So when I talk about

Page 39

1 terminating an untenured faculty, so we're

2 talking about -- or when I talk about terminating

3 an untenured tenure-line faculty, so you and I

4 have the same vocabulary, I'm talking about

5 terminating somebody who is going up for tenure

6 as opposed to somebody who is nonrenewed. Can we

7 agree on that vocabulary?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. So terminating an untenured

10 faculty -- terminating an untenured tenure-line

11 faculty, I mean, it's not an easy thing to do; is

12 it?

13 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

14 MR. BRAMWELL: Actually you're right.

15 MS. WERMUTH: Argumentative.

16 MR. BRAMWELL: It's not argumentative,

17 but let's just strike.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. All right. To sum it up, the process

20 for terminating somebody or the process for

21 denying somebody tenure is spelled out in the

22 handbook, and you're familiar with that process?

23 A. That's correct.

24 Q. Can you just give me your understanding

Page 40

1 of that process?

2 A. It starts at the local level whether it

3 be department or college. You have tenured

4 faculty who make a -- they make an assessment.

5 Let me go back. You have the

6 personnel committee which starts off. They make

7 an assessment. That goes to a college committee

8 that goes to the dean. All of them make

9 independent assessments of the dossier of the

10 faculty member. And from the dean, it goes

11 through the University promotion and tenure

12 committee and it goes to the provost at that

13 point.

14 Q. Okay. And then what happens?

15 A. Then the provost makes a recommendation.

16 Q. Provost makes a recommendation or a

17 decision?

18 A. Makes a decision.

19 Q. Okay. And if the faculty member is

20 denied, then what happens?

21 A. If the faculty member is denied tenure

22 or promotion, they can appeal.

23 Q. Okay. And what's that look like?

24 A. They file an appeal to the faculty

Page 41

1 appeals board.

2 Q. Okay. And then what happens?

3 A. Appeals board reviews the portfolio and

4 makes a determination based on the criteria

5 spelled out in the faculty handbook.

6 MR. BRAMWELL: I'm sorry, there was a

7 bit of a hiccup.

8 Can I ask the court reporter to read

9 back that answer.

10 (Whereupon, the answer was read.)

11 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

12 Q. Okay. And after the appeals committee

13 makes their determination, then what happens?

14 A. It comes to me.

15 Q. Okay. And you make a decision?

16 A. I make a decision.

17 Q. Okay. Now, first of all, why don't you

18 have a Linkedin profile?

19 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, relevance.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. You can answer.

22 A. Too many people wanted to link in with

23 me. Don't have time to -- same reason I don't

24 have Facebook. I have no time to.

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1 Q. Fair enough.

2 So you were at University of Houston

3 from '92 to '96. Were you tenured there?

4 A. No. That was four years.

5 Q. When you became associate VP of academic

6 affairs at Arkansas, were you tenured there?

7 A. Yes, I was.

8 Q. In which college were you tenured?

9 A. The College of Business.

10 Q. Did you vote on tenure cases?

11 A. As associate VP, no, I did not. I

12 evaluated files.

13 Q. Okay. What do you mean you evaluated

14 files?

15 A. The provost asked me to evaluate

16 promotion and tenure files.

17 Q. Okay. Have you ever as a faculty member

18 voted on somebody's application for tenure?

19 A. As a faculty member?

20 Q. As a faculty member.

21 A. No, I did not.

22 Q. So never in your career as a faculty

23 member have you voted on somebody's application

24 for tenure?

Page 43

1 A. No.

2 Q. All right. Now, do you know Lisa

3 Calvente?

4 A. I may have met her on campus or one of

5 the many meet and greets we have across campus,

6 even in faculty council meetings.

7 Q. But you're not sure whether you've met

8 her?

9 A. No. I'll have to see her photo to jog

10 my memory.

11 MR. BRAMWELL: Dr. Calvente, do you want

12 to turn on your video.

13 All right. Thanks. You can turn

14 off your video.

15 Q. Has that jogged your memory?

16 A. No, I do not believe I met her recently.

17 Q. You said you do not believe you met her

18 recently. Did you --

19 A. Yeah, I mean my first year here, I

20 probably met -- between alumni, faculty, staff,

21 because I went to all colleges and all schools

22 and the entire institution, I probably met, and I

23 use that term loosely in a way, I met about, at

24 least, a thousand different individuals. And

Page 44

1 unless I see someone on a regular basis like

2 faculty leadership and so on, it's hard for me to

3 put a name with a face. It's challenging.

4 Q. I understand. What do you know about

5 Dr. Calvente?

6 A. What I know is based on what was in her

7 -- she had a CV, a short one, which was in her

8 file. So I familiarized myself when I looked at

9 her appeal.

10 Q. I'm sending -- I'm getting ready to

11 send.

12 All right. Did you know that

13 Dr. Calvente complained about discrimination at

14 DePaul?

15 A. Can you repeat that? You were kind of

16 garbled.

17 Q. I'm sorry about that. Sure. Did you

18 know that Dr. Calvente complained about

19 discrimination at DePaul?

20 A. I became aware of it. Can you give me a

21 timeline?

22 Q. When did you become aware of it?

23 A. When she filed a complaint.

24 Q. So you became aware when she filed a

Page 45

1 complaint?

2 A. Yes. I think there was an EEO

3 complaint.

4 Q. Okay. So would that have been in the

5 fall of 2018?

6 A. I don't recall. I'd have to look.

7 Q. Okay. But you were aware -- you became

8 aware that Dr. Calvente complained about

9 discrimination at or around the time she filed

10 her EEO complaint?

11 A. That's correct.

12 Q. How did you become aware of that EEO

13 complaint?

14 A. I meet monthly with my Office of General

15 Counsel.

16 Q. Are you then made aware of all EEO

17 complaints filed by all faculty members?

18 MS. WERMUTH: I'm going to object based

19 on the vague nature of the question.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. You can answer.

22 A. If my OGC makes -- Office of General

23 Counsel makes aware, then, yes.

24 Q. Okay. I'm trying to formulate this

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1 question, so I don't get an objection on

2 privilege grounds. But let me ask it this way.

3 So what do you recall about

4 Dr. Calvente's EEO complaint?

5 A. Typically when I get -- when I'm told

6 about an EEO complaint, I just get the name of

7 the individual filing the complaint.

8 MS. WERMUTH: And I will just caution

9 you, Gabe, to avoid any conversations or specific

10 information relayed to you from the general

11 counsel's office about any legal matters. Okay.

12 THE WITNESS: Okay.

13 MR. BRAMWELL: I hope you appreciate

14 that I am trying very hard to ask the questions

15 to not elicit that information.

16 MS. WERMUTH: Right, I did not object to

17 your question. But the answer suggested to me

18 that Gabe is struggling with answering it without

19 going into that territory.

20 And I just want you to understand,

21 Gabe, that those are privileged conversations.

22 And so you should not reveal that information,

23 okay? Thank you.

24 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.

Page 47

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. How do you react when you find out a

3 faculty member has filed an EEO complaint?

4 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague, calls

5 for speculation. And it's vague on a variety of

6 levels.

7 But go ahead.

8 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

9 Q. You can answer.

10 A. When you say react, are you talking

11 about the personal reaction or a --

12 Q. Both a personal and a professional

13 reaction.

14 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

15 relevance.

16 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

17 Q. You can answer.

18 MS. WERMUTH: Also, to the extent that

19 you're -- let me just object on privilege

20 grounds.

21 To the extent that you are reacting

22 to learning from counsel about an EEO complaint,

23 which is one of the big issues I have with

24 respect what's an EEO complaint, but to the

Page 48

1 extent, Gabe, that your reaction is responding to

2 counsel, I would instruct you not to answer.

3 MR. BRAMWELL: And that gets very close

4 to a speaking objection, closer than I would.

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

6 Q. But yeah, you can answer.

7 Don't tell me what your -- do not

8 share the conversations you had with your

9 attorneys. But, you know, how do you react when

10 you learn that one of your faculty members has

11 accused your school of discrimination?

12 MS. WERMUTH: Same objections and same

13 instruction regarding privilege.

14 BY THE WITNESS:

15 A. Yeah, and I can't recall. I can't

16 comment. Because from my standpoint, just

17 personally, it is -- I look at everything as a

18 matter of fact. And it's just a list of things,

19 which we go down the list, so to speak.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. What do you mean you go down the list?

22 A. I mean, there are a number of items

23 which I discuss, not just with our legal counsel,

24 but in my meetings with all my other cabinet

Page 49

1 members. We go down a list of items, and I

2 either comment or just, for the large part, just

3 take it matter of fact.

4 Q. Okay. Your cabinet, I assume that

5 includes the provost and general counsel. Who

6 else is in your cabinet?

7 A. Vice president enrollment management,

8 vice president for student affairs, vice

9 president university marketing and

10 communications, vice president for admission,

11 senior vice president for advancement, the EVP

12 and CFO, chief of staff, provost, OIDE for Office

13 of Institutional Diversity and Equality. About

14 11.

15 Q. Who is the OIDE representative in your

16 cabinet?

17 A. That would be Liz Ortiz.

18 Q. Okay. Did Ms. Ortiz brief you with

19 respect to Dr. Calvente's EEO complaint?

20 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

21 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

22 Q. You can answer.

23 A. No.

24 Q. I'm sorry, I'm just trying to figure out

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1 the best way to ask this question without

2 invading the privilege here.

3 Did you ever reach out to

4 Dr. Calvente about her EEO complaint?

5 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. You can answer.

8 A. No.

9 Q. Why not?

10 A. It was being handled by a -- the EEO

11 office.

12 Q. That's Liz Ortiz's office?

13 A. By that time I believe it had moved to

14 human resources.

15 Q. Okay. So who was then handling that

16 issue for you?

17 A. That would be under Dr. Stephanie Smith.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. She's ADP for human resources.

20 Q. Is she a part of your cabinet?

21 A. No, she's not.

22 Q. Okay. Do you recall what else you were

23 told about Dr. Calvente's EEO complaint?

24 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague, and

Page 51

1 objection to the extent it calls for privileged

2 communications.

3 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

4 Q. You can answer.

5 A. No.

6 Q. Now, just remind me who told you about

7 Dr. Calvente's EEO complaint? Was it your HR

8 folks or was it your GC?

9 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

10 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

11 Q. You can answer.

12 A. It's my GC.

13 Q. Your GC. Who was GC at the time?

14 A. Jose Padilla.

15 Q. And I understand Kathy Stieber is

16 currently the GC?

17 A. That's correct.

18 Q. When did Ms. Stieber become GC?

19 A. Last summer.

20 Q. Okay. And did you ever speak with

21 any -- I don't remember if I asked this, so

22 please indulge me. Sometimes I repeat myself in

23 depositions. It's an occupational hazard.

24 Did you ever speak with anybody at

Page 52

1 HR or OIDE or otherwise about Dr. Calvente's

2 complaint?

3 A. No, I didn't.

4 Q. What would you have expected your HR

5 function to do with respect to investigating

6 Dr. Calvente's allegations of discrimination?

7 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

8 confusing, lacks foundation.

9 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

10 Q. You can answer.

11 A. Investigate the complaint.

12 Q. What would you expect them to do in the

13 course of their investigation?

14 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

15 confusing, lacks foundation.

16 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

17 Q. You can answer.

18 A. Yeah. I assume they have a process to

19 go through when they investigate any complaint.

20 Q. You mentioned that you learned about

21 Dr. Calvente's OIDE -- EEO complaint. Let's just

22 start the question again.

23 You mentioned you learned about

24 Dr. Calvente's EEO complaint around the time it

Page 53

1 was filed. Do you know anything else about

2 Dr. Calvente's EEO activity?

3 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

4 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

5 Q. You can answer.

6 MS. WERMUTH: Also misstates the

7 testimony.

8 Go ahead.

9 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

10 Q. You can answer.

11 A. No.

12 Q. No, you know nothing else about

13 Dr. Calvente's EEO activity?

14 A. No.

15 Q. I'm sending you a document marked

16 Exhibit No. 2. Please let me know when it

17 arrives.

18 (Document marked as Esteban Deposition

19 Exhibit 2 for identification.)

20 MR. BRAMWELL: And just while we're

21 waiting, I'll just let the court reporter know

22 the Bates numbers, so we're not chewing up too

23 much time.

24 This is a document Bates labeled

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1 Calvente-DePaul 016316.

2 MS. WERMUTH: And I just got it.

3 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

4 Q. Okay. Dr. Esteban?

5 A. Just the email?

6 Q. Have you received it?

7 A. Yes, the email from Brian.

8 Q. Brian Boeck?

9 A. Uh-huh.

10 Q. I'm sorry, uh-huh doesn't show up.

11 A. Yes.

12 

 

14 Q. Okay. And what about Steve Stoute; is

15 that correct?

16 A. Yeah, yes, that's correct. Steve Stoute

17 is my chief of staff.

 

20 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, foundation.

21 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

22 Q. You can answer.

23 Dr. Esteban, do you need the

24 question reread?

Page 55

1 A. Yes, please.

2 MR. BRAMWELL: Can I ask the court

3 reporter to read back the question.

4 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

 

 

 

 

 

13 Q. Okay. Approximately how much time did

14 you spend looking at them?

15 A. I don't recall. This was a year ago.

16 Q. Would it have been an hour?

17 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, asked and

18 answered.

19 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

20 Q. You can answer.

21 A. I would not recall, because it was part

22 of all the other documents I reviewed.

23 Q. Approximately how much time did you

24 spend reviewing all the documents?

Page 56

1 A. Again, it's typical for me to sum it up,

2 because it would have been over a few days.

3 Q. Okay. Would it have been half a day of

4 your time?

5 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, asked and

6 answered.

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. You can answer.

9 A. It probably would have been more.

10 Q. And when I say half a day, I'm assuming

11 a day is eight hours; all right?

12 A. Uh-huh.

13 Q. Would it have been a day?

14 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, asked and

15 answered.

16 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

17 Q. You can answer.

18 A. It probably would have been more than a

19 day.

20 Q. Would it have been two days?

21 MS. WERMUTH: Asked and answered.

22 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

23 Q. You can answer.

24 A. If I was to guess, it would have been

Page 57

1 maybe 16 hours.

2 Q. Maybe 16 hours?

3 A. Yeah. That's a guess.

4 MR. BRAMWELL: Okay. If we can, I'd

5 like to take five minutes and come back at 10:12.

6 Can we do that?

7 MS. WERMUTH: Uh-huh.

8 MR. BRAMWELL: Off the record.

9 (A short recess was taken.)

10 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

11 Q. All right. Dr. Esteban, you mentioned

12 that earlier before we went on break that --

13 since you started at DePaul, approximately how

14 many of your professors filed EEO complaints that

15 you've been made aware of?

16 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, relevance,

17 vague.

18 BY THE WITNESS:

19 A. Yeah.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. You can answer.

22 A. Yeah, I don't recall the exact number.

23 Q. More than ten?

24 A. No, I don't believe so.

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1 Q. More than five?

2 A. No, I don't believe so.

3 

5 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

6 relevance.

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. You can answer.

9 

 

 

14 Q. When you -- all right. So earlier this

15 morning we went through briefly the process for

16 what happens -- let's start again.

17 Earlier this morning we spoke a

18 little bit about obtaining tenure and what

19 happens if tenure is denied. Do you recall that

20 conversation?

21 A. Yes, I do.

22 Q. Okay. So if I understand it correctly,

23 you go through the local levels. The UBPT makes

24 a recommendation. The provost makes a decision.

Page 59

1 Then if the faculty member is unhappy with that

2 decision, they can file an appeal. And then you

3 make the -- then you make a decision. Does that

4 summarize our conversation?

5 A. I think I added in that the dean has a

6 say, also, in it as well as there's typically a

7 personnel review committee at the local level.

8 Q. Okay. Right. So after everything local

9 happens and the local unit and the dean make a

10 recommendation, it goes to the UBPT, UBPT makes a

11 recommendation, the provost makes a decision. Is

12 that all correct?

13 A. That's correct.

14 Q. All right. And then if the faculty

15 member is unhappy with that decision, they file

16 an appeal with the appeals committee?

17 A. That's correct.

18 Q. Is the appeal committee a standing

19 committee, or is that a committee that is

20 constituted when an appeal is filed?

21 A. It's constituted.

22 Q. How is the appeals committee

23 constituted?

24 A. If I recall, they have a roster of

Page 60

1 faculty willing to serve and selection is made.

2 Q. What are the criteria to be on that

3 roster of faculty willing to serve on the appeals

4 committee?

5 A. I'll have to look at it, but my

6 assumption is they'll all be tenured faculty.

7 Q. Tenured full professors?

8 A. Not having the document in front of me,

9 if it was not a case for an appeal to a full

10 professor, then it would probably just be tenured

11 faculty. But I'll have to look at the -- I

12 believe if you're appealing promotion to full, I

13 think it should be all full professors.

14 Q. And what document would you need to

15 refresh your recollection?

16 A. The handbook.

17 Q. Well, you have a copy of the handbook in

18 front of you.

19 A. I can't look at it and see you at the

20 same time, so I'll have to go --

21 Q. I'm not worth looking at, trust me.

22 And what section, by the way, of the

23 handbook are you reviewing?

24 A. Right now I'm looking at 3.

Page 61

1 Q. Appeals?

2 A. Yeah, it's in 5.

3 Q. Yeah, I was going to say appeals are in

4 Chapter 5, if I recall.

5 A. Yeah. So it's comprised of 12 tenured

6 faculty members of the faculty counsel.

7 Q. And where are you looking at? Where are

8 you?

9 A. 5.1.1.1.

10 Q. Okay. Now, what's the purpose of the

11 appeals panel?

12 A. Can you clarify? In relation to what?

13 Q. Well, so -- all right. And you can put

14 the handbook aside for a second if you'd like.

15 So we've talked about the process,

16 somebody is denied tenure, doesn't like the fact

17 that they were denied tenure. Provost says no.

18 Their avenue is to file an appeal, right?

19 A. If they so desire, that's correct.

20 Q. Right. If they -- obviously they can

21 accept the decision of the provost and take their

22 terminal contract or they can appeal, right?

23 A. That's correct.

24 Q. And the first step in an appeal is to

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1 present material to the appeals panel, right?

2 A. Yes, that's correct.

3 Q. What's the purpose of the appeals panel?

4 A. They are supposed to review it based on

5 -- there are three grounds for appeal.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. One, the first has to do with whether or

8 not it's a question of violation of academic

9 freedom. The second if whether the University or

10 local guidelines or procedures were not followed.

11 And the third is to look at -- the third ground

12 is on the basis of discrimination.

13 Q. Okay.

14 A. Also, the faculty guide also states that

15 the burden is on the one making the appeal.

16 Q. That's right. So --

17 A. And that judgment -- the faculty

18 handbook also states, if I recall, that the

19 appeals board is not supposed to make evaluative

20 assessments of the merits of the candidate.

21 Q. Okay. So maybe this is my fault for not

22 asking the question properly. So they, you know,

23 review all these materials. But, you know,

24 what's their purpose in the sense that -- well,

Page 63

1 the appeals committee decision is not binding,

2 correct?

3 A. It's a recommendation.

4 Q. It's a recommendation. So then what's

5 the -- if it's just a recommendation, what's --

6 why have an appeals committee at all?

7 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, argumentative.

8 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

9 Q. You can answer.

10 A. It's to provide a faculty member, in

11 this case, one last venue to appeal to the

12 president, in this case.

13 Q. Now, Ms. Wermuth just said that I was

14 argumentative. Do you feel that I have unfairly

15 attacked you or been verbally abusive to you in

16 any way, shape, or form?

17 MS. WERMUTH: Wait, let me just --

18 before you answer, let me object to that

19 question. Argumentative is merely a ground. It

20 doesn't mean that I'm accusing any person of

21 being an argumentative person. There are

22 questions that can be argumentative. I have not

23 made any objections on the grounds of harassing

24 or inappropriate behavior by counsel.

Page 64

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. You can answer.

3 A. So can you repeat that question?

4 MR. BRAMWELL: Yeah.

5 Can I ask the court reporter to

6 repeat the question.

7 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

8 BY THE WITNESS:

9 A. No.

10 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

11 Q. All right. Are you receiving emails

12 right now, Dr. Esteban?

13 A. There are pop-ups.

14 Q. Okay. You're not receiving emails from

15 counsel or about any topics being discussed in

16 this deposition?

17 MS. WERMUTH: All right. Let me just --

18 Jerry, I'm sorry, Mr. Bramwell, I am not

19 communicating with the witness by electronic

20 means or otherwise while he is in examination.

21 MR. BRAMWELL: Okay.

22 MS. WERMUTH: And there's -- I'm sorry,

23 I'm also muting, because I live across the street

24 from a public school, and they're trying to move

Page 65

1 mountains of snow, so that kids can come back

2 tomorrow. So I'm sorry for the noise. I'm

3 trying to mute it out.

4 MR. BRAMWELL: You actually are coming

5 through fine. I don't hear anything from your

6 end. I don't think it's from your end. I don't

7 hear anything that sounds like snow moving.

8 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

9 Q. All right. So, Dr. Esteban, before we

10 got sidetracked -- and, I'm sorry, I don't know

11 that I got the answer. I think that you said

12 that the purpose was to have another vetting?

13 A. No.

14 Q. No. What's the purpose then of an

15 appeals panel?

16 A. The purposes of the appeals panel is to

17 allow another avenue for the faculty to appeal

18 the decision made at the provost level.

19 Q. And the decision ultimately, though,

20 becomes yours as the president, right?

21 A. What decision are we referring to?

22 Q. Sure. The decision to grant or deny

23 tenure.

24 A. My decision is to look at the

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1 recommendation of the appeals board and based on

2 the criteria make an assessment as to whether or

3 not I agree with the appeals board

4 recommendation.

5 Q. Okay. I don't know that that answered

6 my question. Let me ask it this way. So in a

7 tenure denial situation that is an appeal,

8 ultimately it's your decision as to whether to

9 grant or deny tenure, correct?

10 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, asked and

11 answered.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

13 Q. You can answer.

14 A. I guess is the question could I reverse

15 the decision of the provost? Is that what you're

16 asking?

17 Q. Can you reverse the decision of the

18 provost?

19 A. Yes, I can.

20 Q. Okay. And you can either accept or

21 reject the appeals panel recommendation, correct?

22 A. That's correct.

23 Q. What then is the purpose of the appeals

24 panel if you can accept or reject their

Page 67

1 recommendation? Why not just have the appealing

2 faculty member submit all their materials to you

3 in the first instance?

4 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, asked and

5 answered, also argumentative.

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. You can answer.

8 And, Dr. Esteban, if you feel like I

9 have been abusive to you in any way, shape, or

10 form, please let me know. I'll try to --

11 MS. WERMUTH: My objection is not based

12 on abusive questioning.

13 BY THE WITNESS:

14 A. The whole process of promotion and

15 tenure is designed so there's going to be

16 different levels of review by peers, in this

17 case, co-faculty members. And that's why you

18 have that all the way through the process. You

19 have exhaustive reviews at the local, University

20 level, and at the appeal level. That's why it's

21 set up the way it is, so it can be a faculty

22 driven process, so to speak.

23 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

24 Q. Okay. So to see if I can put what you

Page 68

1 just said into my own words, and I know I'm going

2 to draw an objection for misstating your

3 testimony, but we'll have to live with it. The

4 purpose of the appeals panel is to allow faculty

5 another chance to offer an opinion; is that

6 correct?

7 A. That's correct.

8 Q. Okay. Any other purposes of the appeals

9 panel?

10 A. You had the three listed in the faculty

11 handbook are the main purposes.

12 Q. Okay. What does it mean to violate

13 academic freedom?

14 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

15 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

16 Q. You can answer.

17 MS. WERMUTH: Also, not relevant.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. You can still answer.

20 A. The faculty in the context of their role

21 as a faculty member have certain rights and

22 privileges. And in the context of DePaul, we use

23 the AAUP guidelines on academic freedom, which

24 involves being allowed to teach at times

Page 69

1 controversial material and so on.

2 Q. All right. So teach controversial

3 material. Would you classify race and racism as

4 controversial material?

5 A. You're asking my personal opinion?

6 Q. Your professional opinion.

7 A. Okay. No, from my standpoint, it's not.

8 Q. Okay. You've been president for four

9 years at DePaul, right, ballpark?

10 A. That's correct.

11 Q. How many appeals have you heard

12 following the denial of tenure in your time as

13 president?

14 A. This may be the first. If not, it's the

15 second. I don't recall exactly.

16 Q. Okay. So either one or two?

17 A. Yes, that's correct.

18 Q. In the other case, did the faculty

19 appeals panel recommend tenure or recommend that

20 tenure not be granted?

21 MS. WERMUTH: Object, vague, calls for

22 speculation.

23 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

24 Q. You can answer.

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1 And what a panel did, the fact that

2 anybody (inaudible) speculative borders on bad

3 faith.

4 BY THE WITNESS:

5 A. And I don't recall.

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. And you don't recall who that other

8 person might have been who appealed, do you?

9 A. No, I don't.

10 Q. And so, therefore, you don't recall

11 whether that person had a history of filing EEO

12 complaints?

13 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, argumentative,

14 vague.

15 BY THE WITNESS:

16 A. I don't.

17 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

18 Q. You can answer. And, again, if you ever

19 believe that I'm being verbally abusive, let me

20 know.

21 MS. WERMUTH: And let me just state for

22 the record again argumentative does not mean

23 verbally abusive.

24 MR. BRAMWELL: It's the only thing it

Page 71

1 means, Ms. Wermuth.

2 MS. WERMUTH: I disagree.

3 MR. BRAMWELL: Well, you can disagree.

4 We can get the judge on the phone if you'd like.

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

6 Q. Do you know the members of the appeals

7 panel for Dr. Calvente's appeal?

8 A. Do you mean do I know them personally

9 or --

10 Q. Personally or professionally.

11 And thank you for the clarifying

12 question.

13 A. No, I do not recall if I met them in

14 person.

15 Q. Do you know them professionally? And by

16 that I mean do you know about their professional

17 reputations?

18 A. No, I'm not familiar.

19 Q. So you don't know whether they have any

20 reputations for professional integrity or

21 professional incompetence?

22 A. No, I don't.

23 Q. Do you know approximately how many hours

24 the appeals panel spent reviewing Dr. Calvente's

Page 72

1 appeal?

2 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, foundation.

3 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

4 Q. You can answer.

5 A. No, I don't.

6 Q. Do you respect the work that the appeals

7 panel did in presenting Dr. Calvente's appeal?

8 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

9 argumentative.

10 MR. BRAMWELL: If you'd like, we can get

11 the judge, Ms. Wermuth, but there's nothing

12 argumentative about that question.

13 BY THE WITNESS:

14 A. Can you clarify that question?

15 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

16 Q. Sure. Do you respect -- let's see.

17 Do you think that the appeals panel

18 worked hard at reviewing Dr. Calvente's appeal?

19 A. Yes, I believe they worked hard.

20 

 

 

Page 73

3 MS. WERMUTH: Asked and answered.

4 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

5 Q. You can answer.

 

 

 

 

 

18 MR. BRAMWELL: Can I ask the court

19 reporter to read it back, please.

20 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

21 MS. WERMUTH: And I lodge the same

22 objections. It's vague and argumentative.

23 MR. BRAMWELL: We can get the judge on

24 the phone at any time, Ms. Wermuth, if you think

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1 that I'm being argumentative.

2 BY THE WITNESS:

 

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

 

 

13 Q. Okay. With respect to -- is it fair to

14 say that one of the purposes of the appeals panel

15 is to do the heavy lifting on a file, so you

16 don't have to?

17 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, argumentative.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. You can answer.

20 A. By heavy lifting, do you mean getting

21 all the information or --

22 Q. Well, they do most of the work, so that

23 you don't have to do tons of work on it.

24 A. They do what's required of them.

Page 75

1 Q. Okay. That doesn't answer --

2 A. I mean, you're asking for my opinion on

3 whether I believe they do heavy lifting, right.

4 The assessment is that they do what's expected of

5 them to make a decision.

6 Q. Well, that's not quite the question I

7 asked. So I appreciate the clarification. The

8 question is: Do they do the heavy lifting, so

9 that you don't have to do as much work? That's

10 really the call of the question there.

11 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

12 relevance, argumentative, asked and answered.

13 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

14 Q. You can answer still.

15 A. No, I wouldn't say they do the heavy

16 lifting.

17 Q. Okay. I just sent you a document that

18 I've marked as Exhibit No. 6.

19 (Document marked as Esteban Deposition

20 Exhibit 6 for identification.)

21 MR. BRAMWELL: So the record is clear,

22 this is a document that was attached as an

23 exhibit to our complaint. It is file marked up

24 top.

Page 76

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 77

 

 

 

 

 

15 MS. WERMUTH: Excuse me.

16 

 

 

 

 

24 

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5 The one grade you can always count

6 on a C for me was foreign language. And I don't

7 know what it is, but I have a very hard time

8 pronouncing certain things, and I apologize for

9 it.

 

 

 

 

18 Q. Okay. I understand that you received

19 Dr. Calvente's file on January 16, 2020; is that

20 right?

21 A. I'll have to check. If that's the date

22 we acknowledged from the chair of the appeals

23 board, then that's correct.

24 Q. Oh, come on. Sorry, I'm having computer

Page 79

1 problems here. I am sending you a document that

2 I've marked as Exhibit No. 3.

3 So we can continue and the court

4 reporter has it, this is an email that's Bates

5 labeled Calvente-DePaul 034394 through 396.

6 (Document marked as Esteban Deposition

7 Exhibit 3 for identification.)

8 MS. WERMUTH: I don't yet have it.

9 THE WITNESS: I don't have it.

10 MR. BRAMWELL: Maybe I need to get

11 faster internet.

12 MS. WERMUTH: We have so many walls and

13 VPNs to wind our way through, so it just takes a

14 minute.

15 THE WITNESS: Okay. I see it.

16 MR. BRAMWELL: Ms. Wermuth, do you have

17 it?

18 MS. WERMUTH: Uh-uh.

19 Oh, I do now.

20 MR. BRAMWELL: Okay, good.

21 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

22 Q. Dr. Esteban, does this refresh your

23 recollection of --

24 A. Yes.

Page 80

1 Q. -- the appeal?

2 A. Uh-huh.

3 Q. Uh-huh doesn't show up.

4 A. Yes, it does.

5 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry, what was the

6 question? I'm sorry, I don't --

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. Sure. January 16th was when you

9 received Dr. Calvente's file?

10 MS. WERMUTH: Okay. I will just object

11 on vague.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

13 Q. You can answer.

14 A. Okay. Clarification, it says 1/17.

15 Q. The top says 1/17. This is an email

16 chain. But if you go further down the chain, and

17 it's the very top of the second page, or actually

18 the very bottom of the first page, the top of the

19 second page, it looks like there's an email from

20 Steve Stoute, who is your chief of staff,

21 January 16, 2020, at 4:12 p.m. Hi Lexa, Happy

22 New Year! Please see below. The President's

23 Office is in receipt of an appeal.

24 A. Okay.

Page 81

1 Q. You see that there?

2 A. Yes, I see that.

3 Q. And I assume that your chief of staff

4 keeps you informed of important events like

5 faculty appeals?

6 A. Yes, that's correct.

7 Q. Would you consider a faculty appeal of a

8 denial of tenure a priority for you?

9 A. Yes, I would.

10 Q. Okay. Now, it looks like Mr. Stoute

11 says that you must make a decision by

12 January 31st. Why is that?

13 A. I believe there are timelines stated in

14 the handbook as to when I need to reply.

15 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 

 

 

6 You completed your review or rather

7 you made a decision and announced that decision

8 on January 30th, 2020, correct?

9 A. That's correct.

10 Q. All right. I'm going to send you

11 Exhibit No. 5. Make sure I got the numbers

12 correct. Okay. Here we go.

13 (Document marked as Esteban Deposition

14 Exhibit 5 for identification.)

15 Q. And please let me know when Exhibit

16 No. 5 comes through.

17 And just so the court reporter has

18 it, Exhibit No. 5 is a document we produced Bates

19 labeled LC0003993 through 4002.

20 A. I received it.

 

 

 

Page 83

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20 MS. WERMUTH: I'm going to object to

21 that question. It calls for privileged

22 information.

23 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

24 Q. You can answer.

Page 84

 

4 MS. WERMUTH: Honestly, you know, this

5 line of questioning is going into privileged

6 material, and so I'm going to ask you not to

7 answer.

8 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

9 Q. Are you going to take your counsel's

10 instruction and not respond to the question?

11 A. Yes, I will.

12 MR. BRAMWELL: Please certify it.

13 BY THE WITNESS:

14 A. I will take my counsel's advice and not

15 answer it.

16 MR. BRAMWELL: Please certify the

17 question.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

 

 

22 MS. STIEBER: Excuse me, I'm sorry, I

23 think Anna may be frozen. I don't think that she

24 heard that question.

Page 85

1 MS. WERMUTH: Yeah, I'm sorry, was

2 there -- can you repeat the question.

3 MR. BRAMWELL: Sure.

4 I'll ask the court reporter to read

5 it back, please.

6 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

7 MS. WERMUTH: Yeah, I am sorry, that

8 absolutely calls for privileged conversation,

9 getting instructions or direction from general

10 counsel.

11 So to the extent, Gabe, if there's

12 an answer on the record, I would ask that it be

13 stricken. And I would direct you not to answer

14 questions about communications with the General

15 Counsel's Office.

16 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

17 Q. I have sent you Exhibit No. 4, emailed

18 you Exhibit No. 4.

19 (Document marked as Esteban Deposition

20 Exhibit 4 for identification.)

21 Q. You should have received it, because I

22 sent it a few minutes ago. Do you have it?

23 MS. WERMUTH: Let me see.

24 A. Yes.

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9 MS. WERMUTH: So I'm going to object.

10 If you have questions about dates or times of

11 communications with the General Counsel's Office,

12 you know, those are logged on the privilege log

13 that we sent to you. If you're going to get into

14 substance of any of these communications or what

15 is being transmitted, that is -- that's

16 privileged.

17 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

18 Q. You can answer.

19 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry, let me hear the

20 question again if I may, Ms. Burke. Thank you.

21 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

22 MS. WERMUTH: Yeah, I will instruct the

23 witness not to answer to the extent you're asking

24 about the subject of communications with general

Page 87

1 counsel.

2 MR. BRAMWELL: I'm not asking about the

3 subject. I'm just asking whether they exchanged

4 other emails about this Exhibit No. 5.

5 MS. WERMUTH: Right.

6 MR. BRAMWELL: Not the substance of

7 communications.

8 MS. WERMUTH: Yeah, I'm going to

9 instruct the witness not to answer.

10 MR. BRAMWELL: Certify the question,

11 please.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 88

4 MS. WERMUTH: Objection. It's an

5 improper hypothetical.

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. You can answer.

 

 

17 MS. WERMUTH: Argumentative.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. You can answer.

 

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24 MS. WERMUTH: What is your question,

Page 91

1 Mr. Bramwell? Is there a question pending?

2 MR. BRAMWELL: There is. I can have the

3 court reporter read it back if you like.

4 MS. WERMUTH: Yeah, I didn't hear a

5 question.

6 MR. BRAMWELL: Madam Court Reporter can

7 read it back if you'd like.

8 MS. WERMUTH: Yes, please.

9 MR. BRAMWELL: All right.

10 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

11 MS. WERMUTH: I object as very vague,

12 very confusing.

13 MR. BRAMWELL: I know Dr. Esteban is

14 capable of understanding it.

15 BY THE WITNESS:

 

 

Page 92

 

 

 

6 Q. Okay. Let's go back to the faculty

7 handbook if we may. This was Exhibit No. 1.

8 What's the purpose of the faculty handbook?

9 A. Can you clarify? Because --

10 Q. Yeah, maybe I'll do it this way, and

11 hopefully I won't get an objection as to form,

12 although I suspect I will.

13 Would you agree that one of the

14 purposes of the faculty handbook is to outline

15 the expectations of the faculty at DePaul?

16 A. Yeah, that's one of the roles of the

17 faculty handbook.

18 Q. All right. Let's take a look at page --

19 at Section 6.4.1 of the faculty handbook. That's

20 actually the 96th page of the document. That

21 might help you get there a little bit faster.

22 A. Can you repeat that. Six point?

23 Q. 4.1.

24 A. 4.1.

Page 93

1 Q. Are you there?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Okay. Faculty have an obligation to

4 seek truth; is that correct?

5 A. Yes, that's correct.

6 Q. And faculty have an obligation to

7 practice intellectual honesty?

8 A. That's correct.

9 Q. Do you have an understanding or belief

10 as to what it means to practice intellectual

11 honesty?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What is that?

14 A. It ties in with the first one actually,

15 to seek the truth. It means that when you do

16 scholarship and anything we do in our profession

17 that we try to be as impartial as we can. And

18 that when we do a scholarship, it also means that

19 you make sure that the data we have, the research

20 we do is true to our profession.

21 Q. Do these obligations also exist with

22 respect to -- rather, let's strike that and start

23 again.

24 Do these criteria also apply to

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1 obligations that exist -- third time is the

2 charm.

3 Do these criteria also exist for

4 other faculty obligations?

5 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. You can answer.

8 A. Yeah, and I'm not sure I understand

9 that.

10 Q. Sure. If I am a faculty member, if I'm

11 a tenured faculty member, evaluating one of my

12 untenured colleagues, do I have an obligation to

13 practice intellectual honesty in evaluating their

14 work?

15 A. Yes. It also applies to any other

16 faculty member or student.

17 Q. And I have an obligation as a faculty

18 member evaluating my untenured faculty, my

19 untenured colleagues, to seek the truth?

20 A. That's correct.

21 Q. Do these criteria also apply to

22 administrators?

23 A. That should be the case.

24 Q. So Dr. Ghanem has got an obligation to

Page 95

1 practice intellectual honesty when evaluating the

2 UBPT's recommendation and making tenure

3 decisions?

4 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry, can you read

5 that question back, Ms. Burke.

6 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

7 BY THE WITNESS:

8 A. That's correct.

9 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

10 Q. And you have that same obligation,

11 right?

12 A. As a tenured faculty member, that's

13 correct.

14 Q. What about as a president of the

15 University, do you have that obligation?

16 A. Yes, I do.

17 Q. And as president of the University, you

18 have the obligation to seek truth?

19 A. That's correct.

20 Q. And your provost has that same

21 obligation, doesn't she?

22 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, asked and

23 answered.

24

Page 96

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. You can answer.

3 A. Yes, she does.

4 Q. Let's take a look at the handbook.

5 We'll have a race to see who gets there first.

6 Section 3.3.1. That's page 30 of the document.

7 Let me know when you're there,

8 please.

9 A. I'm there.

10 Q. Okay. So Section 3.3.1 says -- is

11 entitled Probationary Tenure-Line Reviews. Do

12 you see that there?

13 A. Yes, I do.

14 Q. And if you go down to lines 4 and 15, it

15 says that one of the purposes of probationary

16 line reviews is to provide clear and consistent

17 guidance and develop priorities for the faculty

18 member towards fully satisfying the criteria. Do

19 you see that there?

20 A. Yes, I do.

21 Q. Do you agree that that's one of the

22 purposes of the probationary period?

23 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, misstates the

24 record evidence.

Page 97

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. You can answer.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And if we go down to Section 3.3.1.1,

5 you'll see Formal Tenure-Line Probationary

6 Reviews.

7 A. Okay. Where is that, 3.3?

8 Q. Yes, same page.

9 A. Okay.

10 Q. Line 33 on the faculty handbook there.

11 Do you see that there?

12 A. Yep, yes, I do.

13 Q. All right. And the first sentence, I'll

14 just read it, so I don't get another objection.

15 "A formal probationary review is designed to

16 prepare a faculty member for the tenure process

17 and to document areas that need the faculty

18 member's attention." Do you see that there?

19 A. Yes, I do.

20 Q. And so you agree that that's one of the

21 reasons for a probationary review, to document

22 areas that need the faculty member's attention?

23 A. Yes, I do.

24 Q. And to prepare them for the tenure

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1 process?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. So would you agree then it's important

4 to provide clear and consistent guidance during

5 the formal -- I'm sorry, strike that.

6 Would you agree that it is important

7 to provide clear and consistent guidance during

8 the probationary reviews?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Okay. And if the probationary reviews

11 are not providing clear and consistent guidance,

12 that's a problem; isn't it?

13 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, form.

14 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

15 Q. You can answer.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Okay. Now, let's take a look at Exhibit

18 No. 5 if we can. And you can close the faculty

19 handbook. I think I'm done for right now.

20 MS. WERMUTH: And what exhibit are you

21 asking us to look at, Mr. Bramwell?

22 MR. BRAMWELL: Sure. It's Exhibit

23 No. 5. I believe this is the January 30th letter

24 by Dr. Esteban.

Page 99

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. Am I pronouncing that correctly?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. One of my earliest mentors told me that,

5 you know, I can still hear her saying, whatever

6 you do, Jerry, make sure you get people's names

7 correctly. And I try to do it, and I fail more

8 often than I succeed. But thank you for humoring

9 me in this regard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 100

 

 

 

17 Q. I mean, you're a mathematician, right?

18 A. That was my undergrad degree, that's

19 correct.

20 Q. How do you differentiate between very

21 good or excellent in the areas of teaching,

22 research, or service?

23 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, foundation.

24

Page 101

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. You can answer.

3 A. That would be based on the local

4 guidelines.

5 Q. How do you -- but how do you

6 differentiate between very good and excellent?

7 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, foundation.

8 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

9 Q. You can answer.

10 MS. WERMUTH: Also, just asked and

11 answered.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

13 Q. You can still answer.

14 A. Yeah. Again, that depends on the local

15 guidelines.

16 Q. Are you aware of any objective criteria?

17 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, foundation.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. You can answer.

20 A. It's not -- when you say objective, do

21 you mean quantitative? Do you mean --

22 Q. Yes, I mean, quantitative. Thank you

23 for asking to clarify.

24 A. One thing one could look at would be the

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1 student evaluations of teaching.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. That's one of the few ones where you

4 have numbers. But typically that's supplemented

5 or supplanted by observations in the classroom,

6 comments about teaching, those sorts of things.

7 Q. What about research, is there a way to

8 objectively measure research?

9 A. It depends on the field, the amount of

10 quantitative metrics available.

11 Q. In communication. Sorry, go ahead. I'm

12 sorry.

13 A. I'll give you an example. In my field

14 business marketing, at some of the institutions I

15 was at, there was a book which was used that

16 assessed the quality of the different journals.

17 And at some institutions, they might require you

18 to have two publications in these types of

19 journals.

20 Typically in academia, when you look

21 at scholarship, it has to be elite, meaning you

22 have a group of peers evaluating the quality of

23 your work before it goes into publication or

24 presentation. And depending on the field, it can

Page 103

1 be performances as well.

2 So that an example would be in music

3 theater or in some cases communications. I've

4 seen it in occupational therapy as well. So it

5 depends on the field and the type of research

6 that's being conducted.

7 Q. What about service, is there a way to

8 objectively measure that?

9 A. Typically at a university, you look at

10 the committees that person serves on, whether

11 it's a permanent committee, ad hoc, standard

12 committee, the scope of work of that committee.

13 Is it the local level or is it university wide.

14 So those are just some of the things one looks

15 at.

16 Q. Is there -- does DePaul have a scoring

17 system in any way, shape, or form?

18 A. You mean at the local or the University

19 level?

20 Q. Okay. So fair. So let's say I'm going

21 up for tenure and I need to get a certain grade

22 in terms of service. Okay. Do I get, you know,

23 X number of points if I serve on a dean search

24 committee and Y number of points if I serve on a

Page 104

1 University committee and Z number of points if I

2 serve on just a regular committee in my -- or a

3 subcommittee? Is it graded that way or is it

4 just this is what I did?

5 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague and

6 improper hypothetical.

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. You can answer.

9 A. Yeah, I'm unaware of any grading system

10 that says if I serve on this committee I get

11 20 points and so on. And this will also be very

12 specific to the college or school. A college

13 such as the liberal arts and social sciences is a

14 large college where they have quite a few

15 committees issued and quite a few faculty

16 members. And so at the smaller colleges or

17 schools, my understanding is the expectation --

18 that for assistant professors expectation is to

19 serve at the local level. And that the volume,

20 types of service should be determined at the

21 local level.

22 Q. I'd like to turn you back to Exhibit

23 No. 5 here. If you can turn to page 3 of that.

24 It's Bates No. LC 3995.

Page 105

1 A. You said Exhibit 5?

2 Q. Correct. That's your letter.

3 A. And which one?

4 Q. Page 3.

5 A. Uh-huh.

6 Q. Let me know when you're there, please.

7 A. I'm on page 3.

8 

 

 

 

 

21 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

22 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

23 Q. You can answer.

24 

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1 Q. How much time did you spend and what did

2 you do with respect to that investigation?

3 A. Again, I'm not sure how much I spent on

4 specific sections of the appeal.

5 Q. Did you spend 10 percent of your time on

6 these rejected allegations?

7 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, asked and

8 answered.

9 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

10 Q. You can answer.

11 A. I don't recall.

12 Q. Would anything refresh your

13 recollection?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Let's ask it this way. Do you think you

16 spent the bulk of your time on the non-rejected

17 allegations?

18 MS. WERMUTH: Vague, objection, vague.

19 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

20 Q. You can answer.

21 A. I spent the bulk of my time on reading

22 the material.

23 Q. Okay. So reading the material, the

24 material being the appeals committee reports, the

Page 107

1 EEO materials, and Dr. Calvente's dossier?

2 A. Yes. More on the appeals board

3 recommendation.

4 Q. And I think you said you spent

5 approximately 16 hours; is that right?

6 A. Yeah, best of my recollection.

7 

 

 

12 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague, and

13 argumentative.

14 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

15 Q. You can answer.

 

 

 

 

23 MS. WERMUTH: Do you want to take a

24 break? Oh, now you found your place.

Page 108

1 MR. BRAMWELL: I found my place.

2 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

3 Q. So let's take a look, please, at page 6

4 of your letter. This is, again, Exhibit No. 5;

5 and so the record is clear, it's LC3998.

6 Let me know when you're there,

7 please.

8 A. I'm on page 6.

 

 

 

 

19 Q. And if you want to just review it

20 quickly, you know, you can. We've got the time.

21 We've got seven hours today. So we've got the

22 time.

23 

 

Page 109

2 A. Uh-huh.

3 Q. Uh-huh doesn't show up on a transcript.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

4 You can answer.

5 BY THE WITNESS:

6 A. I'm not sure I understand the question.

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. Sure. So -- and forgive me if I'm

9 wrong, because one of the reasons we're having

10 this conversation is I want to understand, you

11 know -- I just want to understand your thought

12 process with respect to this letter.

 

 

23 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

24

Page 111

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. You can answer.

3 MS. WERMUTH: Foundation.

4 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

5 Q. You can still answer.

6 MS. WERMUTH: Argumentative.

7 MR. BRAMWELL: Ms. Wermuth, if you say

8 argumentative again, I'm going to call the judge.

9 There's no argumentative here. My tone is soft

10 and it's just a question.

11 BY THE WITNESS:

12 A. Okay. So --

13 MR. BRAMWELL: The only person being

14 argumentative honestly, Ms. Wermuth, is you in

15 continuing to raise the question.

16 MS. WERMUTH: I disagree. It's a basis

17 for the objection, Jerry, Mr. Bramwell.

18 MR. BRAMWELL: Mr. Bramwell.

19 MS. WERMUTH: Mr. Bramwell. I corrected

20 myself.

21 And if you want to call the judge, I

22 understand, but I don't see a need to call the

23 judge.

24

Page 112

1 BY THE WITNESS:

2 A. So can you please repeat the question?

3 MR. BRAMWELL: Yeah, if we can ask the

4 court reporter to read it back, please.

5 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

6 BY THE WITNESS:

 

9 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 113

 

 I'm going to send you Exhibit No. 7.

5 Have I sent this exhibit out yet?

6 MS. WERMUTH: I don't think so.

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. Please let me know when you've received

9 it, Dr. Esteban.

10 (Document marked as Esteban Deposition

11 Exhibit 7 for identification.)

12 MS. WERMUTH: This is No. 7, I have it

13 now.

14 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I just got it.

15 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 Q. Okay. And this is a document that

5 DePaul asked that I remove from the record. Is

6 that consistent with full transparency?

7 MS. WERMUTH: Objection. That is

8 argumentative. There's no doubt about it.

9 MR. BRAMWELL: Yeah, you also said it

10 was clear that these should be removed. So I

11 don't know about no doubt about it.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

13 Q. You can answer, Dr. Esteban.

14 A. What was the question?

15 Q. Sure.

16 Can the court reporter read it back,

17 please.

18 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

19 MS. WERMUTH: I want to just object to

20 the extent it misstates the record and, also,

21 foundation.

22 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

23 Q. You can answer.

24 A. I still don't get the question.

Page 115

1 Q. Sure. I'm trying to understand what you

2 mean by full transparency, because it's a concept

3 that I'm having some trouble with. Is it fully

4 transparent for -- is it consistent for full

5 transparency for Dr. Calvente to share the

6 information in this letter with others?

7 MS. WERMUTH: Same objections.

8 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

9 Q. You can answer.

10 A. Yeah. And I think to clarify, you said

11 that Dr. Calvente shared this letter with others;

12 is that what I'm hearing?

13 Q. Well, she filed it in her -- as an

14 attachment to her complaint. Is that consistent

15 with full transparency?

16 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague,

17 argumentative.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. You can answer.

20 MS. WERMUTH: Speculation.

21 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

22 Q. You can still answer.

23 A. Dr. Calvente can include whatever

24 materials she wants when she files for her

Page 116

1 appeal.

2 Q. Well, I'm not talking about filing her

3 appeal. I'm talking about filing the lawsuit

4 which is a public record.

5 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, foundation.

6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

7 Q. You can answer.

8 A. I don't know.

9 

 

 

 

 

17 Q. Yeah. Actually to make this a little

18 bit easier, I'm going to share my screen. I'm

19 going to try to use the technology. Let's see if

20 I can do it.

21 Okay. Are you seeing my screen now?

22 A. Yes, I can.

23 

Page 117

 

 

 

 

 

 

18 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry. Before you

19 answer, Ms. Reporter, can you please read it for

20 me one more time, the question.

21 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

22 MS. WERMUTH: Okay. Objection, vague,

23 confusing, and argumentative.

24

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1 BY THE WITNESS:

 

11 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

 

 

 

 

 

Page 119

2 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, argumentative,

3 vague.

4 MR. BRAMWELL: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

6 Q. You can answer.

 

 

13 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, improper

14 hypothetical.

15 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

16 Q. You can answer.

 

 

 

Page 120

 

 

17 MS. WERMUTH: I'm going to object to the

18 question. It was -- the narrative form of the

19 question was pure argument.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. You can answer.

22 And, you know, we'll get through

23 this deposition a lot faster -- I got seven

24 hours. We'll get through this deposition a lot

Page 121

1 faster without these serial objections and having

2 the court reporter read everything back. Your

3 choice.

4 MS. WERMUTH: My objection took probably

5 two seconds. So I don't want to be accused of

6 unnecessarily eating time during this deposition,

7 because it's not accurate.

8 MR. BRAMWELL: I think it is accurate,

9 but I'm just letting you know.

10 BY THE WITNESS:

 

 

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4 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

6 Q. You can answer.

7 

8 Q. And faculty have to engage with the

9 material in the dossier with a goal to seeking

10 truth?

11 A. Yes, faculty have to.

12 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 123

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 124

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 125

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

13 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, misstates the

14 record.

15 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

16 Q. You can answer.

 

 

 

 

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1 

3 Q. Okay. So if there is a violation of

4 process and procedure, what's the remedy?

5 A. It depends on the nature of the

6 violation of process and procedures.

7 

11 

15 

 

 

Page 127

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 128

1 

 

 

4 Q. Sure. So this is a -- if you're a

5 grammar nerd like me, this is a fun paragraph,

6 because it's a one-sentence paragraph. But it

7 reads as I just read it.

8 

 

 

16 Q. So -- what to your mind would need to

17 happen to rise to the level of a procedural

18 violation?

19 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague, calls

20 for speculation.

21 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

22 Q. You can answer.

23 A. They skipped a level could be a

24 procedural violation.

Page 129

1 Q. I'm sorry, they skip pay level?

2 A. They skipped a level.

3 Q. Oh, a level. Okay.

4 A. Yeah. So from personnel review, it went

5 straight to the UBPT, that would be procedural.

6 If they went over and above what's expected to be

7 submitted in a document as part of the dossier

8 and it was significant, then that would have been

9 procedural.

10 Q. I'm sorry, can you unpack that a little

11 bit. Over and above what was expected in a

12 dossier?

13 A. A candidate is supposed to submit

14 certain material as part of their dossier.

15 Q. Okay.

16 A. The probationary review typically is not

17 part of that. So if I was on the committee, I

18 could not request -- there are certain things

19 which you're allowed and not allowed to ask for,

20 so to speak.

21 Q. So if material is supposed to be

22 included in the dossier and is not, that's

23 procedural; and if material is not supposed to be

24 included in the dossier and is included, that's

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1 also procedural?

2 MS. WERMUTH: Objection. I think that

3 misstates the testimony.

4 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

5 Q. You can answer.

6 A. Yeah. The second part, if I was a

7 candidate for promotion and tenure and I

8 submitted things which I don't have to include as

9 part of the dossier, as per the faculty handbook,

10 then that's on me. It's not on the committee.

11 Q. Okay. And if the committee -- if the

12 candidate asks for material to be included and

13 that's failed -- I'm sorry, let's strike that and

14 start again.

15 If the candidate asks for certain

16 materials to be included and those materials are

17 not included, that's procedural?

18 A. You mean after the submission date?

19 Q. No. Prior to.

20 A. Anything prior to the official date of

21 submission, candidate can include it.

22 Q. Okay. And if it's not -- okay.

23 Okay. So if -- I'm just trying to

24 understand what you consider procedural and not,

Page 131

1 and I'm trying to get a better understanding of

2 this second piece. I know that you have been

3 instructed to only answer the questions I've

4 asked, but it will be a little easier if you help

5 me out a bit.

6 So obviously skipping a level,

7 that's a procedural violation. Material that

8 doesn't belong in the dossier is a procedural

9 violation; is that right?

10 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, misstates his

11 testimony.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

13 Q. You can answer.

14 And, Ms. Wermuth, honestly if you

15 stop with the misstates testimony objections,

16 we'll get through a lot faster, because I'm

17 trying to understand what the testimony is. So

18 just FYI, I don't want to have to go back to the

19 judge and say, hey, I need more time because

20 Ms. Wermuth kept interposing objections.

21 A. If I was on UBPT and asked for things

22 which are not required to be part of the dossier,

23 then that could be a procedural.

24 Q. Okay. Were there any other procedural

Page 132

1 issues?

2 A. Well, I mean, the way it's decided is at

3 each level they're supposed to evaluate what was

4 done at the level below them to make sure that

5 there are no procedural guidelines.

6 Q. So, you know, and obviously you said

7 full transparency is important, right?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And is full transparency a procedural

10 issue or a substantive issue?

11 A. I don't quite understand.

12 Q. Sure. So if I understand correctly, you

13 believe that there are three reasons -- three

14 grounds for appeal, and one of them is that

15 procedures are not followed.

16 A. Uh-huh, that's correct.

17 Q. Okay. Now, I'm trying to understand,

18 you know, sort of what, you know, that means to

19 you. I'm trying to understand what that means to

20 you when you say procedures were not followed.

21 A. I'll give you an example. Was there an

22 evaluation by the personnel review committee of

23 the portfolio? Was there an examination of the

24 portfolio by the -- or dossier by the college

Page 133

1 committee? Was there an evaluation at the dean

2 level? Those are procedural. If any of those

3 steps were missed, okay, then you have a

4 procedural issue.

5 You're supposed to be evaluated on

6 the basis of teaching, scholarship, and service.

7 If a candidate was only evaluated on one of those

8 three and there was no mention of the other two

9 throughout the whole process, then that's a

10 procedural issue.

11 Q. What if the evaluation on one of these

12 areas -- and we can pick any of the areas, but

13 we'll just pick -- you can pick your favorite.

14 What if one of the evaluations was just

15 objectively wrong? Is that a procedural

16 violation?

17 A. What do you mean by objectively wrong?

18 Q. Sure. So you mentioned a hypothetical

19 earlier, and I know I'm going to draw an

20 objection. We'll just have to live with it. You

21 know, for research, certain colleges or certain

22 academic units might say you need to have three

23 publications in a tier one journal. And this

24 particular candidate has three evaluations in the

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1 -- in, you know, the tier one journals. There's

2 no dispute or debate about that. And,

3 nonetheless, they are dinged on their research

4 for not having the requisite number of

5 evaluations -- or requisite number of

6 publications. Would that be a procedural

7 violation?

8 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague, improper

9 hypothetical.

10 Go ahead.

11 BY THE WITNESS:

12 A. Yeah. And, well, this is all

13 hypothetical. So I'm not sure if any of our

14 colleges or schools have that as a criteria first

15 and foremost.

16 If you have the three publications,

17 there typically are more restrictions than just

18 those three publications. Lead authorship might

19 be something else a college might look at. Is it

20 single; is it double.

21 In some fields, for example, the

22 sciences, it's not unusual to have maybe five,

23 six coauthors, so to speak, including students.

24 So you'll have to look very specific at that.

Page 135

1 So assuming it's as clear-cut as

2 having -- you have three publications in tier one

3 journals and, at least, one of them, let's say --

4 and I'll be very specific. At least, one of them

5 has to be sole authorship and two you have to

6 be -- in one of the other two you have to be the

7 lead author. And you hit that criteria for

8 scholarship, if there's no other criteria, then,

9 yes, I'd say you hit -- you meet that standard

10 for research. As to whether that standard for

11 research means excellent, very good, or good,

12 that depends on the college or school.

13 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

14 Q. Okay. But I think you sidestepped the

15 question. And the question is: You know, if I

16 have this bright line -- and, you're right, I'm

17 making this hypothetical clean or simple for --

18 just so that I can understand what the parameters

19 are. If I have this bright line and, you know, I

20 objectively hit this bright line and,

21 nonetheless, am told that I didn't hit that

22 bright line, would this constitute a procedural

23 violation such that my appeal should be granted?

24 MS. WERMUTH: Objection to form.

Page 136

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. You can answer.

3 A. Okay. And is the assumption that bright

4 line is the minimal expectations or --

5 Q. Sure, minimum expectation. If I hit

6 this bright line, I satisfy the requirements; if

7 I don't hit the bright line, I don't satisfy the

8 requirements.

9 A. It should have been -- if you have that

10 criteria, it should have been caught at the

11 personnel, the college, or the dean level before

12 it even gets out of the college. And if it

13 doesn't at any of those levels, then I'd say that

14 that still -- that may be considered a -- that's

15 an evaluation is the challenge. Is it procedural

16 or not? I'd say, yes, it could be procedural,

17 because you're not following the guidelines set

18 in the college or school, if that's where it's

19 set.

20 

Page 137

 

 

 

 

 

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16 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, form,

17 argumentative, asked and answered.

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. You can answer.

 

Page 139

 

 

 

 I'm asking

14 this.

15 If they did misread the file, so

16 assuming, without deciding, assuming they did

17 misread the file -- and I promise you I am not

18 going to go run into court and say Dr. Esteban

19 agrees that they misread the file. I'm just

20 saying if they misread the file, why isn't that a

21 procedural violation?

22 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, form,

23 argumentative.

24

Page 140

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. You can answer.

3 A. If they misread the file completely and

4 they -- there was a clear bright line, as you put

5 it, which said if you have this in your teaching,

6 you're going to be -- promotion, right, then I'd

7 have to look at the file more closely and look at

8 the discussions back and forth on the evaluation

9 of teaching, and I'd make an assessment.

10 But then the challenge with that is

11 I'm overstepping my authority, because I'm

12 supposed to look at -- I'm not supposed to make

13 my own evaluation of the teaching, substitute my

14 judgment for that of the committees at the

15 different level, 

17 Q. 

 But maybe

19 that is argumentative there, so I apologize for

20 being argumentative there.

21 

Page 141

2 A. Was that a question?

3 MS. WERMUTH: Object.

4 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

5 Q. 

12 MS. WERMUTH: I'm going to object to the

13 form of the question. It's argumentative. I'm

14 also going to ask after the President finishes

15 this question if we can take a break. I need a

16 break.

17 MR. BRAMWELL: Yeah, sure.

18 BY THE WITNESS:

19 A. 

21 MR. BRAMWELL: You want to come back at

22 1:00 o'clock. We'll take 45 minutes for lunch.

23 MS. WERMUTH: Sounds great. Thank you.

24 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

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1 (A short recess was taken for lunch

2 from 12:15 p.m. to 1:04 p.m.)

3

4

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6

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8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

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17

18

19

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21

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23

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Page 143

1 MR. BRAMWELL: Back on the record.

2 A. GABRIEL ESTEBAN,

3 called as a witness herein, having been

4 previously duly sworn, was examined and testified

5 further as follows:

6 EXAMINATION (Resumed)

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. Dr. Esteban, we just took about a

9 45-minute lunch. Is there anything that you wish

10 to clarify of your earlier testimony?

11 A. Not at this time.

12 Q. Okay. Good.

13 

Page 144

1 

2 Q. 

5 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, assumes facts

6 not of record.

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. You can answer.

9 A. Are you referring to this type of

10 question or -- because I responded earlier with

11 what I thought would be a material procedural

12 violation.

13 Q. All right. Since it's been actually

14 about 50 minutes, can you refresh my

15 recollection?

16 MS. WERMUTH: Asked and answered. He's

17 answered the question about this paragraph

18 several times.

19 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

20 Q. You can answer.

21 And, Ms. Wermuth, when I finally get

22 a legitimate answer to my question, I'll stop

23 trying to reformulate.

24

Page 145

1 BY THE WITNESS:

2 A. So, again, you are asking me if --

3 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

4 Q. 

9 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, assumes facts

10 not of record.

11 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

12 Q. You can answer.

13 A. Am I being asked to evaluate her file in

14 terms of her teaching?

15 

 

21 Q. 

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1 

3 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, form, assumes

4 facts not of record, argumentative.

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

6 Q. You can answer.

7 

12 Q. I'm not sure I understand that answer.

13 A. 

 

 

 

22 MS. WERMUTH: I'm just going to object

23 again to form.

24

Page 147

1 BY THE WITNESS:

2 

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 

11 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, form.

12 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

13 Q. You can answer.

14 

 

 

 

24 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, form, calls for

Page 148

1 speculation.

2 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

3 Q. You can answer.

4 A. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 A. I just want to understand how you define

2 those two terms.

3 Q. Well, you are tasked with evaluating

4 Dr. Calvente's appeal, correct?

5 A. Meaning me as president or appeal board?

6 Q. You as president.

7 A. Yes. I'm tasked with reviewing the

8 recommendations of the appeals board.

9 Q. Right. And you ultimately get to decide

10 whether Dr. Calvente gets tenure or she doesn't,

11 correct?

12 A. Those are some of my options, correct.

13 Q. What are your other options?

14 A. I could also just ask that it be

15 remanded to the provost if I believe there was a

16 procedural issue. The faculty handbook doesn't

17 say I'm limited to those two options.

18 Q. I believe earlier you testified those

19 were the only two options. Now you're saying

20 that there's another option, you can remand to

21 the provost?

22 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, misstates his

23 testimony.

24

Page 151

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. You can answer.

3 A. No, I did not say those were the only

4 two options.

5 Q. Okay. So the options are to grant

6 tenure, to deny tenure, and to remand to the

7 provost. Are there any other options?

8 A. Well, the faculty handbook doesn't say

9 what all the options are. I could remand it to

10 the provost. I could ask for a second review. I

11 mean, there's nothing specific as to what the

12 limits are in terms of my options.

13 Q. Okay. What other options -- you said

14 you can do anything you want is your belief?

15 A. I would say anything within reason.

16 Q. What constitutes within reason?

17 A. If I -- well, I mean, are you talking

18 about this specific case or hypothetically?

19 Q. I'm talking any case.

20 A. That would be dependent on the specific

21 case.

22 Q. So your power depends on a specific

23 case. That doesn't make sense.

24 A. The options I employ would depend on a

Page 152

1 specific case.

2 Q. Well, obviously what you ultimately do

3 is on a case-by-case basis. But earlier, you

4 know, I asked about your authority and you said

5 that your authority -- and, Ms. Wermuth, if you

6 want to go back to the transcript, we can do it

7 when it comes out. But I understood your

8 authority as granting tenure or denying tenure.

9 Now I hear you saying that there's a third option

10 to remand to the provost. I'm trying to

11 understand if there are options 4 through N.

12 A. And as I indicated, it depends on the

13 specific case. Because I look at what's

14 recommended by the appeals board and I assess the

15 basis for their recommendations and based on that

16 I make a determination.

17 Q. Well, yes, obviously you make a

18 determination. But my question now is, because

19 I'm getting information that is different than my

20 understanding earlier, what could you do as

21 president when you get an appeal that you've

22 decided to affirm? You know, we talked about

23 remanding to the provost, granting tenure,

24 denying tenure. Can you do other things as well?

Page 153

1 A. Based on the faculty handbook, it was

2 vague as to what other options I have.

3 Q. Okay. Do you believe you have other

4 options?

5 A. I could ask another appeal board to

6 evaluate it, I guess, if that was my -- based on

7 my assessment of that particular situation that

8 was called for.

9 Q. Okay. So you could ask another appeals

10 board to evaluate. Do you have other powers or

11 other options?

12 A. I assume there are.

13 Q. I'm sorry?

14 A. I assume I have other options.

15 Q. It looks like Dr. Ghanem has now joined

16 the deposition.

17 All right. So we've gone through

18 now I think four options. Is there a fifth

19 option?

20 A. As I indicated, the faculty handbook is

21 vague on this area as to what other remedies or

22 options I have as president. And you asked me

23 what I thought the options might be, and those

24 are my responses as possible options.

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1 Q. Okay. And what I want to understand is

2 what you understand the universe to be. If you

3 think that those are the realistic options, fine.

4 If you think now that there are even more

5 options, I'd like to know.

6 A. Those would probably be the first

7 options I'd look at.

8 Q. Okay. Are there other options you would

9 look at?

10 A. No, not at this time.

11 

 

21 A. Which exhibit is that?

22 Q. That would be Exhibit No. 6.

23 A. Hold on. I have too many windows open.

24 Q. That's a challenge with today's Zoom

Page 155

1 work, right?

2 MS. WERMUTH: Yeah, I have the same

3 problem, Gabe.

4 Exhibit 6.

5 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12 Q. What are evolving recommendations?

13 A. Can I give you an example?

14 Q. Sure.

15 A. When I was -- and I'll give myself as an

16 example.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. As a tenure-track faculty.

19 We had yearly evaluations as a

20 tenure-track faculty in my institution, and we

21 also had -- similar to here, we had merit pay

22 increases, as well as cost of living adjustments

23 or across-the-board increases. Part of that

24 evaluation every year, as we were told, this is

Page 159

1 an area which you need to work on. It might be

2 service. It might be teaching. It might be

3 scholarship. And the next time around next year,

4 maybe I worked on it, on a particular area which

5 I was told I needed to improve upon. And it

6 might turn out that I still need to work on

7 another area even more.

8 Let's say, the first year they said

9 my scholarship is not progressing at the rates

10 they expected. And so they asked me to work on

11 that, and that they may have said that service

12 and teaching was on track. The following year

13 they might say your scholarship has met

14 expectations, maybe even exceeded expectations at

15 this point. However, we did see a slight dip in

16 service. You did not serve on as many

17 committees. And they asked me to put a little

18 emphasis on that area, keeping in mind that I

19 can't let up on the other areas which they may

20 not have necessarily pointed out.

21 So throughout my probationary

22 review, I expect there to be -- there might be

23 difference -- I guess expect is a strong word.

24 There might be difference in areas I'm asked to

Page 160

1 focus on depending on progress I make in those

2 different areas.

3 Q. Okay. Now, I understood you did not

4 earn tenure at --

5 A. University of Houston Victor.

6 Q. That's right. You didn't earn tenure

7 there, right?

8 A. No. I was only there for four years.

9 Q. You didn't even go up for tenure, did

10 you?

11 A. I went up for tenure fourth year, on the

12 start of my fourth year, on the advice of my

13 dean.

14 Q. Okay. And you didn't receive it?

15 A. The provost at University of Houston

16 Victoria informed me I needed more years in rank.

17 I was also told that I met all the criteria for

18 promotion and tenure. It was years of rank that

19 I was missing.

20 Q. Okay. And then when you joined

21 Arkansas -- is it Arkansas Tech University?

22 A. That's correct.

23 Q. And you joined as a tenure -- you joined

24 as a tenured member of the faculty there, right?

Page 161

1 A. Yes. My file was evaluated by the

2 College of Business at Arkansas Tech University.

3 Q. Okay.

4 A. And they awarded me tenure.

5 Q. Now, evolving -- going back to evolving

6 recommendations. If somebody were told that they

7 were given consistent -- well, yeah, if somebody

8 were given inconsistent guidance, would that be

9 problematic?

10 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, form.

11 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

12 Q. You can answer.

13 A. Yeah, what do you mean by inconsistent

14 guidance?

15 Q. That you're told to do X and then the

16 next year told that they should not have done X.

17 A. Are you implying that there was a change

18 in the standards?

19 Q. No. What I'm asking is if somebody were

20 told to do X in one review and then told to do

21 something that was inconsistent with X in another

22 review, would that be problematic?

23 MS. WERMUTH: Objection to form.

24 Go ahead.

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1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. Yeah.

3 A. When you say inconsistent, in the

4 example I gave you, I was asked, for example,

5 that I had to work on, let's say, scholarship one

6 year and I was able to work on it; and the

7 following year they felt that I needed to work

8 more on my service, so I would work on that.

9 That being said, the assumption is

10 in terms of scholarship I continue on the path

11 which got me to the level which would be

12 consistent with earning tenure at that

13 institution.

14 Q. Okay. But I think that you're

15 sidestepping the question here. Here is the

16 question. You're being told with respect to

17 service -- because we're talking about service

18 right now.

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. Not scholarship and service, but just

21 service. And you can answer subject to

22 Ms. Wermuth's objection, which I know is coming.

23 But if you're told to do X during one review and

24 then told to do something that's inconsistent

Page 163

1 with X during your next review, is that

2 problematic?

3 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, form.

4 BY THE WITNESS:

5 A. And I tried to understand the question

6 in this case. In terms of service, which you

7 point out, if I'm told I had to serve on, let's

8 say, more substantial committees at the college

9 level or more long-term committees at the college

10 level and I do it; and when I do serve on longer

11 term more substantial committees at the college

12 level, I'm told that, no, you don't have to do

13 that, instead you have to do this other thing

14 which is maybe serve on ad hoc committees or

15 whatever, then I'd say you did receive

16 inconsistent guidance; and I would have asked why

17 is this different from my previous years or my

18 previous evaluation. That's if I was a faculty

19 member.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. If a faculty member receives

22 inconsistent guidance and that inconsistent

23 guidance is then held against her, would that be

24 a procedural violation?

Page 164

1 MS. WERMUTH: Objection to form.

2 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

3 Q. You can answer.

4 A. Yeah. If I receive inconsistent

5 guidance, I would question why the guidance was

6 inconsistent. I'd have that documented if I was

7 a faculty member.

8 Q. Okay. But I'm not talking about what

9 the faculty member should do. I'm talking about

10 what constitutes a procedural violation.

11 If the faculty member is told to do

12 X during one review cycle and then told to do

13 something that is inconsistent with X during the

14 next cycle, is that a procedural violation? It's

15 a yes-or-no question.

16 MS. WERMUTH: I object to the form.

17 It's also vague and it's an incomplete

18 hypothetical.

19 Go ahead.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 Q. Yeah, go ahead.

22 A. I'd say it's inconsistent guidance, but

23 procedurally, the procedure says they get a

24 review every year.

Page 165

1 Q. You're supposed to get a review every

2 year or a review every other year?

3 A. Depending on the college. My previous

4 institution it was -- two institutions ago it was

5 every year. The cycle here is different at

6 DePaul.

7 Q. So, again -- and Ms. Wermuth is going to

8 lodge her objections, and one of them is going to

9 be asked and answered; but I still haven't gotten

10 an answer to this question. And this is a very

11 simple yes-or-no question, right. If you're

12 being given inconsistent guidance with respect to

13 your service obligations, does that constitute a

14 procedural violation?

15 MS. WERMUTH: Objection, vague.

16 BY THE WITNESS:

17 A. Based on --

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. You can answer.

20 A. -- our discussions, I'd say no.

21 Q. No. Why not?

22 A. It's my opinion.

23 Q. Okay. I know it's your opinion, but at

24 the level you're at, it's not enough to say it's

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1 just my opinion. I need to understand why you

2 believe that.

3 A. I think I stated it earlier as to the

4 context.

5 If we can go back to my earlier

6 response, Ms. Burke.

7 (Discussion off the record.)

8 MS. WERMUTH: So, Gabe, I'm not sure

9 exactly which response you're referring to.

10 There's been a fair amount of back and forth on

11 this line of questioning. So can you summarize

12 what you recall saying on the topic?

13 BY THE WITNESS:

14 A. Well, the thing is I gave an example of

15 me personally what I thought, and I also

16 responded to the question as to if someone

17 received inconsistent guidance and so on. And my

18 response was as a faculty member, I would have

19 raised issue if I thought I was receiving

20 inconsistent guidance. Then I thought we went

21 into the question is whether or not it was a

22 material -- if what is inconsistent. And I had

23 an initial response to that before the follow-up

24 to the same question.

Page 167

1 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

2 Q. Here is the challenge. You know, is it

3 a material procedural violation if a faculty

4 member is receiving inconsistent guidance with

5 respect to their service obligations. You said

6 no. I asked why. You said it was just my

7 opinion.

8 A. Yeah, it's my opinion. But it depends

9 on the context. I mean, it's easy to give

10 hypothetical without any context around the

11 question. And that's what I was trying to get

12 at, what context are we looking at.

13 

 

Page 168

1 

 

 

19 MS. WERMUTH: Objection.

20 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

21 

22 Ms. Wermuth, make your objections.

23 But, Dr. Esteban, I'll need your

24 answer.

Page 169

1 MS. WERMUTH: Yeah, I do object to the

2 form of the question. It's an incomplete

3 hypothetical. It calls for speculation, vague.

4 BY THE WITNESS:

5 

7 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

8 Q. Why don't we do this. Why don't we take

9 five minutes. You read the section on -- why

10 don't we take ten minutes. You read the section

11 on service, and then we'll come back. All right.

12 Let's come back at 1:50.

13 MS. WERMUTH: Wait, wait, wait. I'm

14 sorry, what are you asking my client to do?

15 MR. BRAMWELL: I'm asking him to take

16 ten minutes to read the appeals committee report

17 on service, and then we'll come back.

18 MS. WERMUTH: Okay. We're taking a

19 ten-minute break.

20 MR. BRAMWELL: Yep.

21 (A short recess was taken.)

22 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

23 Q. All right. We just took ten minutes.

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Page 171

1 MS. WERMUTH: Object to the question.

2 It assumes facts not of record, and I object to

3 form.

4 Go ahead.

5 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

6 Q. You can answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

21 Q. And I'll try to share my screen. Let's

22 see if I can use the technology correctly three

23 times in one deposition; and for the record, I

24 was smiling a little bit there.

Page 172

1 All right. Do you see my screen up

2 here?

3 A. Yes, I do.

 

 

17 Q. And I love this, too, because it's a

18 one-sentence paragraph. I love it when people

19 can do that.

20 

 

 appeal

24 committee's search pedantic?

Page 173

 

 

 

 

12 MS. WERMUTH: Object to the form of the

13 question. I also think you're becoming -- I'll

14 leave it at that.

15 BY THE WITNESS:

 

18 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

19 Q. Okay. Do you believe that the appeals

20 board -- do you believe that anybody promised the

21 appeals board anything or offered the appeals

22 board anything for a -- to uphold the appeal?

23 I'm sorry, that was a horrible question. Let me

24 strike that.

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1 Do you believe that the appeals

2 board was offered anything of value or offered

3 anything at all in exchange for finding the way

4 that they did?

5 A. And I just need to clarify. Are you

6 asking me if I believe that they were bribed?

7 Q. Yeah.

8 A. No.

9 Q. Bribe is a crass way of putting it, but,

10 yeah, that will work.

11 A. No.

12 Q. Do you believe that they were pressured?

13 A. No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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20 A. Uh-huh.

21 Q. Uh-huh doesn't show up.

 

 

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1 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 177

 

 

10 MS. WERMUTH: Jerry -- I'm sorry,

11 Mr. Bramwell, he has answered the question.

12 MR. BRAMWELL: There are two answers to

13 this question.

14 MS. WERMUTH: Not necessarily, not

15 necessarily. And he's telling you how he can

16 answer the question. It may not be the answer

17 that you think is the best or the one that, you

18 know, supports a particular position. But that

19 being said, he can't answer it in a yes or no.

20 He's telling you that.

21 

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6 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

 

10 MS. WERMUTH: Well, I'm going to allow

11 the witness to answer the question in the manner

12 that he sees appropriate.

13 MR. BRAMWELL: You don't get to make

14 that decision, Ms. Wermuth.

15 MS. WERMUTH: Well, I don't think you

16 get to tell him it has to be yes or it has to be

17 no. I don't think that's appropriate instruction

18 to give a witness. He's answered this question.

19 But if you're going to ask it a last time, then

20 fine, he can answer it a last time.

21 MR. BRAMWELL: I can ask it as many

22 times as I need to get an answer.

23 MS. WERMUTH: He's given you an answer.

24 We're not going to do this for the next three

Page 179

1 hours.

2 MR. BRAMWELL: Well, as soon as he gives

3 me an answer, then we'll get it. If you want to

4 call the judge, you're welcome to do it.

5 BY THE WITNESS:

 

9 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

 

 

 

 

 

Page 180

1 

 

 

 

8 MS. WERMUTH: Objection.

9 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

10 Q. You can answer. 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 181

1 

5 MS. WERMUTH: I'm sorry, what page are

6 you on?

7 MR. BRAMWELL: I'm on the very first

8 page. And, here, this might help if I share my

9 screen.

10 MS. WERMUTH: Again, I'm sorry, what's

11 the question, Mr. Bramwell?

12 MR. BRAMWELL: Can I ask the court

13 reporter to read it back, please.

14 (Whereupon, the question was read.)

15 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

16 

 

 

 

 

 

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Page 182

 

 

 

 

15 Q. Now, is it enough that a faculty member

16 have procedural protections, or do the procedural

17 protections also have to be effective procedural

18 protections?

19 A. And how in this case would you define

20 effective procedural protections?

21 Q. Sure. You need to have unbiased

22 reviewers, correct?

23 A. That's correct.

24 Q. What does the phrase preponderance of

Page 183

1 the evidence mean?

2 A. To me it means significant proof.

3 Q. Significant proof. So 75 percent?

4 A. Yeah, at least, more than half, if

5 you're to look at percentages. But I think you'd

6 have to look at what evidence is displayed and to

7 weigh them if you are to look at.

8 Q. Okay. Well, does it mean, you know,

9 just more than 50 percent? Does it mean a lot

10 more than 50 percent? Does it mean, you know,

11 close to 100 percent?

12 A. So you're asking me to quantify the

13 evidence?

14 Q. I'm asking -- I'm trying to understand

15 what preponderance of the evidence means to you.

16 You said significant proof. And so I'm trying to

17 understand what significant proof means to you.

18 A. It would depend on the types of evidence

19 I presented and how I might weigh it.

20 Q. Well, here is the reason I ask. You

21 mentioned that the -- I think you testified

22 earlier, correct me if I'm wrong, that the

23 appealing faculty member has the burden of proof

24 by the preponderance of the evidence, correct?

Page 184

1 A. That's correct, according to the faculty

2 handbook.

3 Q. Right. My question then is: What does

4 preponderance of the evidence mean to you?

5 A. And my response is it depends on the

6 type of evidence presented and the weight I

7 assign to it.

8 Q. Okay. But it means significant proof is

9 the best you can do?

10 A. That's the best I can do, that's

11 correct.

12 Q. Is significant proof, does that mean

13 more likely than not, or is that a greater

14 standard?

15 A. And I have a difficulty, because I keep

16 trying to assign weights in my mind or

17 percentages, and that's not an accurate way to

18 look at it.

19 Q. My background is in economics and my

20 family are all scientists and engineers. I'm the

21 black sheep, so...

22 A. Yeah, and so that's the challenge. At

23 least, in my mind, if you ask me about what

24 constitutes preponderance, I would say it depends

Page 185

1 on the evidence being presented and the weight I

2 assign to the evidence.

3 Q. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

16 Q. Do you have confidence in Salma Ghanem

17 as the provost?

18 A. Yes, I do.

19 Q. Has anyone ever accused you of making an

20 employment decision for racially discriminatory

21 reasons?

22 A. I really don't recall. I been in this

23 -- either provost or president since 2003.

24 Q. Would anything refresh your

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Page 186

1 recollection?

2 A. I'd have to look at I guess all my files

3 from 2000, from all time I became provost at

4 university, I had to make those determination.

5 Q. Have you ever been accused of academic

6 dishonesty?

7 A. I have not.

8 Q. Have you ever been arrested in the

9 United States?

10 A. Speeding tickets don't count, do they?

11 Q. No, they do not.

12 A. Okay. No, I have not. I have to ask.

13 MS. WERMUTH: I don't blame you.

14 BY MR. BRAMWELL:

15 Q. I appreciate the request for

16 clarification. But between you and me and I

17 guess the transcript, yes, speeding tickets, I

18 don't think many of them are legitimate and

19 valid. I was trying to make a joke.

20 A. And I agree with you on the legitimate

21 and valid.

22 

Page 187

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Page 188

1 Q. Okay. I can look it up. That's fine.

2 Let's take another five minutes if

3 we can. Come back at, let's say, four minutes,

4 2:20.

5 (A short recess was taken.)

6 EXAMINATION

7 BY MS. WERMUTH:

 

16 MR. BRAMWELL: Object to the extent that

17 the answer contradicts anything that he testified

18 to earlier.

19 

 

21 BY MS. WERMUTH:

22 Q. Okay. Now, you were also asked

23 

Page 189

 

 

 

 

 

12 MR. BRAMWELL: Objection, leading.

13 BY THE WITNESS:

14 A. Yes.

15 MS. WERMUTH: Thank you.

16 I have nothing else.

17 MR. BRAMWELL: All right. Dr. Esteban,

18 thank you for your time today.

19 THE WITNESS: Thank you. Appreciate it.

20 MS. WERMUTH: And, Ms. Burke, we'll

21 reserve signature.

22 THE REPORTER: Do you want to order the

23 transcript?

24 MR. BRAMWELL: Yeah, I'll order the

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Page 194

1 DEPOSITION REVIEW

 CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS

2

 ASSIGNMENT REFERENCE NO: 4445852

3 CASE NAME: Calvente, Lisa v. Ghanem, Salma, et al.

 DATE OF DEPOSITION: 2/16/2021

4 WITNESS' NAME: A. Gabriel Esteban

5 In accordance with the Rules of Civil

Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of

6 my testimony or it has been read to me.

7 I have listed my changes on the attached

Errata Sheet, listing page and line numbers as

8 well as the reason(s) for the change(s).

9 I request that these changes be entered

as part of the record of my testimony.

10

 I have executed the Errata Sheet, as well

11 as this Certificate, and request and authorize

that both be appended to the transcript of my

12 testimony and be incorporated therein.

13 _______________ ________________________

Date A. Gabriel Esteban

14

 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a

15 Notary Public in and for the State and County,

the referenced witness did personally appear

16 and acknowledge that:

17 They have read the transcript;

 They have listed all of their corrections

18 in the appended Errata Sheet;

 They signed the foregoing Sworn

19 Statement; and

 Their execution of this Statement is of

20 their free act and deed.

21 I have affixed my name and official seal

22 this ______ day of_____________________, 20____.

23 ___________________________________

 Notary Public

24

 ___________________________________

25 Commission Expiration Date

Page 195

1 ERRATA SHEET

 VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS MIDWEST

2 ASSIGNMENT NO: 4445852

3 PAGE/LINE(S) / CHANGE /REASON

4 ___________________________________________________

5 ___________________________________________________

6 ___________________________________________________

7 ___________________________________________________

8 ___________________________________________________

9 ___________________________________________________

10 ___________________________________________________

11 ___________________________________________________

12 ___________________________________________________

13 ___________________________________________________

14 ___________________________________________________

15 ___________________________________________________

16 ___________________________________________________

17 ___________________________________________________

18 ___________________________________________________

19

_______________ ________________________

20 Date A. Gabriel Esteban

21 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO BEFORE ME THIS ________

22 DAY OF ________________________, 20______ .

23 ___________________________________

 Notary Public

24

 ___________________________________

25 Commission Expiration Date

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0

00498 86:4

016316 54:1

03 15:4

034394 79:5

07 15:4

084-002573 191:4

1

1 3:8 28:4 29:21

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156:1

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10 84:2 99:13,15

106:5

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103 28:18

10:12 57:5

11 49:14

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113 3:13

12 61:5

123 2:8

12:15 142:2

14 124:20

143 3:4

15 96:14

16 1:15 57:1,2

78:19 80:21 107:5

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1820 192:2

188 3:5

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1993 12:5

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1:04 142:2

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2

2 3:8 53:16,19

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193:3 194:3

20 1:5 104:11

193:16 194:22

195:22

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2015 108:12

110:21 122:15

123:2 124:20

2017 15:13 27:8

28:24 29:2 108:12

110:22 117:3

2018 28:18,20

35:20 45:5

2020 78:19 80:21

82:8 143:15

2021 1:16 191:22

192:4

2108 191:23

216-523-1313

192:3

2200 2:3

225 2:3

2:20 188:4

2:33 190:4

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3

3 3:9 31:24 60:24

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116:23 192:4

3.3 97:7

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3.3.1.1 97:4

30 3:8 20:16 96:6

30th 82:8 98:23

143:15

31 3:11

312 2:4,9

31st 81:12

320 77:6

33 97:10

3366 1:5

34 76:11

382-3100 2:9

396 79:5

3995 104:24

4

4 3:4,10 85:17,18

85:20 96:14

108:16 109:13

152:11 156:1

4.1. 92:23,24

4002 82:19

44114 192:2

4445852 192:7

193:2 194:2 195:2

45 141:22 143:9

4:12 80:21

5

5 3:12 31:24 61:2

61:4 82:11,14,16

82:18 83:4 86:8

87:4 98:18,23

99:10 104:23

105:1 108:4

121:22 122:13,20

127:10,15 143:14

155:23 157:7,15

171:16 181:2

189:1

5.1.1.1. 61:9

50 33:2 144:14

183:9,10

53 3:9

55 117:6,11,13

118:18 119:9,19

120:11 121:13

6

6 3:12 75:18,20

108:3,8 109:5,10

109:12,19 122:12

122:20 127:10,15

136:21 143:15

154:22 155:4

6.4.1 92:19

60 33:2

60604 2:14

60606 2:4,9

7

7 3:13 113:4,11,12

116:14,16 148:6,9

75 3:12 183:3

79 3:10

8

8 171:15,18

82 3:12

84 3:16

85 3:11

87 13:2,2

88 3:16 13:3,10,11

9

9 157:13,16,20

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92 13:11,18 20:15

20:15 42:3

924-2884 2:4

93 13:10

96 13:18 14:1,2

42:3

96th 92:20

99 86:4

9:00 8:19

9:02 1:16

a

a.d. 1:16 191:21

a.m. 1:16 8:19

aaup 68:23

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28:9 162:6

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119:8

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67:12 70:19,23

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102:20

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21:3,4,10,23 32:8

33:24 42:5 62:8

68:13,23 88:22

124:17 133:22

186:5

academics 32:13

33:8

academy 12:7,10

19:2,3 20:15,16

22:10,13 24:5

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66:24 105:12

126:21

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121:7,8 184:17

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121:5 123:21

185:19 186:5

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120:10

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193:11 194:16

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78:22

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36:1 127:17

136:22 143:17

157:2,5

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105:13 107:7

192:15

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adjustments

158:22

administration

12:3 16:12 19:18

19:23

administrative

14:11,12,13 15:18

15:22,23 20:2

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19:21 20:5

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94:22

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49:11

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160:12 169:6

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49:8

affirm 152:22

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193:15 194:21

ago 55:15 85:22

165:4

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19:18 22:10,13

28:18,21 39:7

66:3 92:13 96:21

97:20 98:3,6

108:14 110:19

171:7 175:24

176:1 186:20

agreed 5:20 6:13

6:21 77:22,23

107:9 126:12

171:9

agrees 139:19

ah 31:10 157:22

ahead 16:7 17:14

22:17 23:6 24:10

24:15 27:2 29:8

35:5 47:7 53:8

83:2 89:8 102:11

134:10 161:24

164:19,21 171:4

al 192:6 193:3

194:3

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105:14,17 106:6

106:17 107:8,19

alleged 105:11

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allow 20:10 65:17

68:4 178:10

allowed 68:24

129:19,19

allows 180:12

alma 12:11

alternatively

123:22

alumni 32:24

43:20

amado 4:14

amount 26:16

102:9 166:10

187:11

ample 109:7

121:24

analyst 12:21

anna 2:7 84:23

192:5

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7:9 8:19,20 16:7,9

17:13 18:21 20:19

20:21 21:9,21

23:8 24:10,12,14

25:19 26:6 27:4

29:7,10 30:17

34:3 35:7,15 41:9

41:10,21 45:21

46:17 47:9,17

48:2,6 49:22 50:7

51:4,11 52:10,17

53:5,10 54:22

55:20 56:8,17,23

57:21 58:8 63:9

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63:18 64:2 65:11

66:13 67:7 68:16

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72:4 73:5 74:19

75:1,14 80:13

83:24 84:7,15

85:12,13 86:18,23

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101:2,9,13,19

104:8 105:23

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114:13,23 115:9

115:19,22 116:7

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168:21,24 170:18

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177:11 178:18

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177:12

anybody 11:2

51:24 58:3 70:2

83:15 139:4,5

173:20

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109:13 140:19

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34:13,15,19 36:22

37:21,24 38:3,6,8

38:17 40:22,24

44:9 54:19 55:6

59:2,16,18,20 60:9

61:18,22,24 62:5

62:15 63:11 65:17

66:7 67:20 71:7

72:1,7,18 74:11

77:22 80:1,23

81:7,17,23 87:14

87:18,21 88:11,20

89:7,14 100:3

105:11 106:4

107:11 114:2

116:1,3 124:1

132:14 135:23

150:4,5 152:21

153:5 168:4

172:23 173:3,9,22

180:1,19 187:8

188:11,15 189:3,7

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67:1 183:23

appeals 3:12 31:23

41:1,3,12 54:13

55:9 59:16,22

60:3 61:1,3,11

62:1,3,19 63:1,6

65:15,16 66:1,3,21

66:23 68:4,8

69:11,19 71:6,24

72:6,17 74:10,14

76:6,8,23 78:22

81:5 89:3,8 90:3

90:17,18,23 91:16

91:24 92:3 105:9

105:12 106:24

107:2,18 108:11

122:14 123:1,8

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149:3 150:8

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154:12,18 155:7

155:13,19,20

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167:14 168:7

169:16 170:1,6,10

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176:6,9,18,21

177:2,4,8,22,24

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175:6 193:11

194:15

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175:5

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118:9

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194:18

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42:23 77:2,9,12

78:12 88:16 185:4

185:6

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185:9

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94:21

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189:19

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27:12

appropriate

178:12,17

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approximately

32:17,20 55:13,23

57:13 71:23 81:15

83:18 107:5

area 153:21 159:1

159:4,7,18

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97:17,22 100:21

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187:12

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39:15,16 63:7,14

63:19,21,22 67:5

70:13,22 72:9,12

73:22 74:1,17

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107:13 111:6,8,9

111:14 114:8

115:17 117:23

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160:21,21 161:2

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20:2 26:18 27:15

31:19 36:10 42:15

51:21 55:17 56:5

56:14,21 66:10

67:4 72:24,24

73:3 75:7,12

76:20 89:21 90:14

90:17 95:22

101:10 106:7

114:5 119:23,23

131:4,21 138:17

139:11 144:16

145:13 146:13,18

152:4 153:22

159:10,17,24

162:4 163:16

165:9 167:6

170:14 171:10

173:6 176:24

179:6 188:8,22

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66:16 69:5 75:2

86:23 87:2,3

98:21 101:23

108:9 139:9,12,13

145:2 155:11

161:19 169:14,15

171:13 174:6

179:12,15,17,18

183:12,14

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assessment 40:4,7

66:2 75:4 121:11

121:16 139:3

140:9 149:11

153:7 156:4

167:19,24 170:12

171:8 187:15

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62:20

assign 184:7,16

185:2

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194:2 195:2

assistant 13:20,21

13:22 104:18

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42:5,11

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49:4 52:18 76:17

81:3 153:12,14

180:21

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assuming 56:10

126:7 135:1

139:16,16

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136:3 147:14

162:9

athletics 32:15

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75:22 113:17

194:7

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115:14

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attention 97:18,22

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191:13,15,17

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83:19

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19:13

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148:20 149:5

154:14 155:9,15

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107:17 140:11

148:12 152:4,5,8

170:11 180:19

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135:5

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65:17

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161:4

aware 44:20,22,24

45:7,8,12,16,23

57:15 101:16

180:20

awermuth 2:10

b

b 3:6,9 4:9,10

109:1

bachelor's 11:15

11:24

back 19:14 40:5

41:9 55:3 57:5

65:1 73:19 85:5

91:3,7 92:6 95:5

104:22 108:16

112:4 114:16

121:2,16,20

131:18 136:20

137:24 139:3

140:8 141:21

143:1 152:6

157:10 161:5

166:5,10 169:11

169:12,17 181:13

188:3 192:15

backdrop 148:11

background 16:12

184:19

bad 70:2

ballpark 69:9

based 41:4 44:6

45:18 62:4 66:1

67:11 89:4 101:3

112:19 118:7

121:16 137:6

139:2,8 141:19

148:4 152:15

153:1,6 165:17

176:4 187:17

bases 88:20 89:3

90:20

basically 32:16

basis 16:10 18:13

33:11 44:1 62:12

100:3 111:16

122:14 123:2,8

133:6 152:3,15

bates 29:20 53:22

53:24 79:4 82:18

86:3 104:24

127:16 171:16

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 54 of 85 PageID #:1246
becoming 173:13

beginning 179:6

behalf 2:6,15

behavior 63:24

117:6,10,15

118:19 119:11,19

120:13

belief 93:9 151:14

believe 13:2 15:2

37:19 43:16,17

50:13 57:24 58:2

60:12 70:19 72:19

72:20,22 73:1,6

74:3,9 75:3 78:16

81:13 98:23

110:14 123:7

124:19 127:2

132:13 139:9,13

148:18,24 149:8

149:12,17 150:15

150:18 153:3

154:12 155:6,13

166:2 170:16

173:8,10,11,11,16

173:19,20 174:1,6

174:12 175:8

176:19,21 177:1,4

177:8 178:1 180:4

believed 149:2

176:17

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belong 131:8

best 50:1 73:11,12

73:14 99:24 107:6

177:17 184:9,10

better 30:15 131:1

big 27:21 47:23

binding 63:1

bit 30:2 41:7 58:18

76:21 92:21

116:18 129:11

131:5 157:19

171:24

black 184:21

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board 41:1,3

54:13 55:9 62:19

66:1,3 76:7 78:23

89:3,8 105:9

107:2 122:14

123:1,8 125:10

140:15,18 148:12

148:18 149:3

150:5,8 152:14

153:5,10 154:13

154:19 155:7,13

155:19,20 156:7

156:17,18 158:23

168:7 170:1,7,10

171:8 172:8 173:4

173:9,16,20,21,22

174:2,14 187:12

188:13

board's 105:12

107:18 108:11

156:13 187:3

boeck 3:9 54:8,12

54:13,18

boer 29:15 33:23

book 102:15

borders 70:2

bottom 80:18

157:7

boulevard 2:13

bramwell 2:2,2,5

3:4,4 4:6 9:4,5

16:8 17:6,12,18

20:20 21:8,20

22:21 23:7,14,20

23:21 24:11,17

25:7,18 26:5 27:3

29:9,18,24 30:9,21

31:3,5,11,12 35:6

39:14,16,18 41:6

41:11,20 43:11

45:20 46:13 47:1

47:8,16 48:3,5,20

49:21 50:6 51:3

51:10 52:9,16

53:4,9,20 54:3,21

55:2,19 56:7,16,22

57:4,8,10,20 58:7

63:8 64:1,4,10,18

64:21 65:4,8

66:12 67:6,23

68:15,18 69:23

70:6,17,24 71:3,5

72:3,10,15 73:4,18

73:23 74:5,18

75:13,21 79:10,16

79:20,21 80:7,12

83:23 84:8,12,16

84:18 85:3,16

86:17 87:2,6,10,12

88:6,18 91:1,2,6,9

91:13,22 94:6

95:9 96:1 97:1

98:14,21,22 99:1

101:1,8,12,18

104:7 105:22

106:9,19 107:14

108:1,2 110:7

111:1,4,7,13,17,18

111:18,19 112:3,9

113:7,15 114:9,12

114:22 115:8,18

115:21 116:6

118:11 119:4,5,15

120:20 121:8,19

122:5 125:15

128:21 130:4

131:12 135:13

136:1 138:18

140:1 141:4,17,21

143:1,7 144:7,19

145:3,11 146:5

147:7,12 148:2

151:1 161:11

162:1 163:20

164:2,20 165:18

167:1 168:20

169:7,15,20,22

171:5 173:18

177:11,12,21

178:6,13,21 179:2

179:9 180:9 181:7

181:11,12,15

186:14 188:16

189:12,17,24

bravo 109:1

break 57:12

107:24 141:15,16

169:19

bri 185:14

brian 54:7,8

bribe 174:9

bribed 174:6

brief 49:18

briefly 58:15

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135:20,22 136:3,6

136:7 140:4

brought 182:3,13

182:14

budgets 33:24

bugging 10:21

bulk 106:16,21

burden 62:15

183:23

burke 1:13 86:20

95:5 166:6 189:20

191:3

business 12:1 15:1

42:9 102:14 161:2

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 55 of 85 PageID #:1247
butcher 78:4

buzzing 14:14

bylaws 180:18

c

c 78:6 99:16 191:2

ca 192:24

cabinet 48:24 49:4

49:6,16 50:20

calculation 141:11

calculations

119:21

california 12:4

call 20:5 23:22

75:10 111:8,21,22

179:4

called 1:10 4:3

143:3 153:8

calls 47:4 51:1

69:21 83:21 85:8

88:1 128:19

147:24 169:3

calm 10:1

calvente 1:3 2:17

3:11 43:3,11 44:5

44:13,18 45:8

50:4 54:1,19 58:3

58:12 76:16 77:12

79:5 82:22 86:4

88:3 89:17 100:14

110:14 113:1

115:5,11,23 117:9

118:17 119:20

120:11,13 123:21

124:7 125:9,12

126:15,24 137:8

137:10 147:6

150:10 168:13

170:7,19,22 180:5

181:3 186:23

192:6 193:3 194:3

calvente's 9:19

11:8 46:4 49:19

50:23 51:7 52:1,6

52:21,24 53:2,13

71:7,24 72:7,18

74:11 76:23 77:5

77:22 78:12,19

80:9 81:17,23

87:14 88:12,15

107:1,11 108:14

110:21 114:1

117:11,13 119:9

124:17,23 126:9

126:10 138:22

140:22 141:7

150:4 158:1

167:13 170:1

173:3,9 187:13

188:11 189:7

campus 43:4,5

candidate 62:20

89:12 90:9 100:4

100:11 129:13

130:7,12,15,21

133:7,24

candidates 100:8

capable 91:14

capacity 7:1,1,3

care 5:24 6:2

170:3

career 42:22

case 60:9 63:11,12

67:17 69:18 88:9

89:13 90:20 94:23

100:14 124:23

126:9 151:18,19

151:21,23 152:1,3

152:3,13 163:6

167:18 168:6,10

182:19 187:15,18

192:6 193:3 194:3

cases 42:10 103:3

categories 25:9

100:16

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caution 46:8

central 14:19

15:19 22:6

certain 26:16

68:21 78:8 103:21

129:14,18 130:15

133:21,21 175:5

176:19,20 177:2,9

177:23 178:2

certainly 7:6

certificate 194:11

certification 193:1

194:1

certified 1:14 3:15

191:23

certify 84:12,16

87:10 191:4,11,14

cfo 49:12

chain 80:16,16

chair 78:22

challenge 136:15

140:10 154:24

167:2 168:12

184:22

challenging 20:11

44:3

chaminade 12:1

chance 68:5

change 84:20

161:17 192:13,14

194:8 195:3

changed 92:5

changes 192:12

193:7 194:7,9

chapter 31:24,24

61:4

chapters 32:4

characterization

156:13

characterizes 6:12

charm 94:2

charmed 5:13

check 78:21

chewing 53:22

chicago 1:15 2:4,9

2:14 191:21

chief 49:12 54:17

80:20 81:3 87:13

cho 58:4,11

choice 121:3

172:10

choose 7:6 155:12

cited 125:17

civil 1:11 193:5

194:5

claim 119:18

claimed 117:4

clarification 75:7

80:14 186:16

clarify 6:16 17:5

61:12 72:14 92:9

101:23 115:10

143:10 149:20

174:5 180:21

clarifying 12:9

71:11 139:12

class 16:1,2 19:22

classify 69:3

classroom 102:5

127:20 137:1

143:21

clean 6:4 135:17

cleaner 30:3

clear 6:6,10 75:21

76:4 91:19 96:16

98:4,7,11 108:5

114:10 135:1

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 56 of 85 PageID #:1248
140:4 189:1

cleveland 192:2

client 86:5 169:14

close 48:3 98:18

183:11

closely 140:7

closer 48:4

coach 24:17

coauthors 134:23

coffee 27:17

colleagues 25:14

25:15,20,21,23

94:12,19 156:21

collect 87:16

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18:11 24:23 26:13

33:13 34:5 35:11

37:15 38:15 40:3

40:7 42:8,9 89:13

90:12 100:10

104:12,12,14

112:20 118:8,8

123:18 127:17

132:24 134:19

135:12 136:11,12

136:18,22 143:17

156:19,23 161:2

163:8,9,11 165:3

168:10 172:12

180:24 182:5,9

187:16,21

colleges 33:7,9

34:9 43:21 104:16

133:21 134:14

come 26:24 27:5,9

38:8 57:5 65:1

78:24 141:21

169:11,12,17

179:15,18 180:2

187:23 188:3

comes 25:5 38:23

41:14 82:16 152:7

coming 65:4

162:22

commencing 1:16

commendable

99:19,22

comment 48:16

49:2 117:5 118:22

179:12

comments 102:6

109:8 118:6 120:6

137:18,18 138:6

139:2 156:20

157:6,9 179:16

commission

193:19 194:25

195:25

committee 3:12

36:5 38:19 40:6,7

40:12 41:12 59:7

59:16,18,19,19,22

60:4 63:1,6 90:3

90:18,18,23 91:16

91:24 92:3 103:11

103:12,12,24

104:1,2,10 106:24

117:4 119:18

125:7,19,24 126:7

126:22 129:17

130:10,11 132:22

133:1 167:14

169:16 170:18

173:2 175:4,6

176:7,9,18,21

177:2,4,8,22,24

178:2,3,4,8 186:23

187:16,22

committee's

172:24

committees

103:10 104:15

140:14 159:17

163:8,9,11,14

167:20 170:13

common 37:7

communicating

64:19

communication

11:6 86:5 88:2

100:10 102:11

182:5

communications

49:10 51:2 85:14

86:11,14,24 87:7

103:3

compare 16:3,10

complained 44:13

44:18 45:8

complaint 30:12

44:23 45:1,3,10,13

46:4,6,7 47:3,22

47:24 49:19 50:4

50:23 51:7 52:2

52:11,19,21,24

75:23 113:17

115:14

complaints 45:17

57:14 70:12

123:23

complete 5:20

completed 82:6

192:15

completely 8:8,13

140:3

comport 24:6

comprehensive

123:14

comprised 61:5

computer 78:24

concept 115:2

concerned 175:15

concerning 170:1

concerns 112:17

127:19 136:24

137:15 140:23

143:19 182:3,13

182:14

concluded 156:18

190:4

conclusion 99:16

122:15 123:2,8

156:16 179:16,19

179:21,24 180:2

conclusions

105:13 188:10,14

188:23 189:6,9

conduct 105:16,20

conducted 103:6

137:20

confidence 185:16

confidential 7:22

7:24

confusing 52:8,15

91:12 117:23

connection 110:16

cons 123:10

consider 27:15

81:7,16 130:24

considered 16:20

136:14

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consistent 96:16

98:4,7,11 114:6

115:4,14 158:7

161:7 162:12

172:5

consistently 147:2

constitute 127:22

135:22 137:3,15

138:12 143:23

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 57 of 85 PageID #:1249
145:17,24 146:1

146:19,21 165:13

constituted 59:20

59:21,23

constitutes 151:16

164:10 184:24

191:9

constitution

128:10

contacted 27:18

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content 120:6

context 68:20,22

100:3 109:7 120:1

121:24 166:4

167:9,10,12 175:1

continue 35:15

79:3 162:10

continuing 111:15

contract 34:7

61:22 127:8

contradictions

172:13

contradictory

172:10

contradicts 188:17

controversial 69:1

69:2,4

conversation

10:15 58:20 59:4

85:8 110:10

119:12

conversations

46:9,21 48:8

copy 28:4 30:10

30:11,18 60:17

corporate 12:21

corporation 12:24

correct 4:20,24

5:10,17 9:23 15:5

15:20 25:10,11

29:17 37:13 38:9

38:10,13 39:23

45:11 51:17 54:15

54:16 59:12,13,17

61:19,23 62:2

63:2 66:9,21,22

68:6,7 69:10,17

76:10,18,19 78:23

81:6 82:8,9,12

93:4,5,8 94:20

95:8,13,19 100:19

105:2 114:3

116:12 123:6,20

123:24 124:5,9,12

124:18 126:8,17

126:19 127:9

132:16 146:17

147:20,23 148:5

149:7 150:4,11,12

155:21 156:22

160:22 171:19

180:17 181:18

182:6,22,23

183:22,24 184:1

184:11

corrected 111:19

167:22

corrections 192:12

194:17

correctly 36:12

58:22 78:11 86:3

99:2,7 124:14

132:12 147:8

171:22 175:4

cost 158:22

council 43:6

counsel 2:12 6:23

7:5 9:10,22,22

45:15,23 47:22

48:2,23 49:5 61:6

63:24 64:15 83:6

83:14 84:19 85:10

86:8 87:1 191:15

191:17

counsel's 46:11

82:2,5 84:9,14

85:15 86:11

counsels 9:20,21

count 78:5 140:22

141:19 186:10

counterargument

121:14

county 191:2

193:10 194:15

course 52:13

117:6,14 118:18

120:11 158:3

court 1:1 5:22 6:7

6:12 7:23 30:6

41:8 53:21 55:2

64:5 73:18 79:3

82:17 85:4 91:3,6

112:4 114:16

121:2 139:18

181:12 193:7

courteous 26:11

26:15,21

courts 1:12

coworkers 25:22

cozen 2:7 28:11

cozen.com 2:10

crass 174:9

created 33:20

creating 29:4

criteria 25:8 41:4

60:2 66:2 93:24

94:3,21 96:18

100:6,12 101:16

134:14 135:7,8

136:10 160:17

criticized 168:16

csr 191:3

culture 21:3,4,10

21:23,24 22:6

23:11,13

cup 27:17

currently 51:16

cut 18:18 135:1

cv 1:5 44:7

cycle 164:12,14

165:5

d

d 3:1 4:14

data 93:19

date 32:23 78:21

130:18,20 192:8

193:3,9,19 194:3

194:13,25 195:20

195:25

dated 76:7 143:14

dates 86:10

day 56:3,10,11,13

56:19 83:2 193:16

194:22 195:22

days 56:2,20

192:18

dean 14:24 34:6

35:10 38:18 40:8

40:10 59:5,9

103:23 124:16

127:17 133:1

136:11,22 143:17

157:5 160:13

182:11

dean's 157:2

dear 192:10

debate 134:2

140:17

deceive 74:7

decent 27:24

decide 150:9

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 58 of 85 PageID #:1250
decided 17:21

132:2 152:22

deciding 139:16

decision 23:12

38:16 40:17,18

41:15,16 58:24

59:2,3,11,15 61:21

63:1 65:18,19,21

65:22,24 66:8,15

66:17 75:5 81:11

81:20 82:7,7,23

83:1 88:12 89:23

90:8 91:18 124:22

125:8 126:14

174:18 178:5,14

185:20

decisions 34:11

95:3

deed 193:14

194:20

deemed 192:19

deep 34:8

defendants 1:8

2:15

deference 26:2,7

26:10,19,20

define 21:10 26:7

26:19 73:7 150:1

182:19

defines 74:6

definition 26:12

26:20 73:8,13

74:9 174:21 176:4

degree 11:14

12:14 19:19 25:8

26:1 100:18

degrees 11:18,20

delegate 81:19

82:1

delete 8:2

demeanor 10:1

demonstrate 26:1

demonstrates

158:9

den 29:15 33:23

denial 66:7 69:12

78:11 81:8

denied 40:20,21

58:19 61:16,17

dennis 27:21,22

deny 65:22 66:9

88:11 127:7 151:6

denying 3:12

39:21 152:8,24

dep 8:19

department 24:23

40:3 192:22

depaul 1:6 2:12

4:18,22 7:2,3 9:15

9:18 15:14,15

16:4,17 17:2,8,16

17:24 18:3,5,13

20:24 21:3 22:19

22:23 25:8 26:24

27:6,7,9 28:17,19

28:23 32:11 34:20

35:1 37:3 44:14

44:19 54:1 57:13

68:22 69:9 79:5

86:4 92:15 103:16

114:5 165:6

depend 151:24

183:18

dependent 151:20

depending 33:2

37:14 102:24

160:1 165:3

depends 32:22

37:15 101:14

102:9 103:5 126:5

135:12 151:22

152:12 167:8

184:5,24

deposed 5:4,8

10:12

deposition 1:9 3:7

8:2 9:1,7 30:7

53:18 64:16 75:19

76:18 77:19 79:6

82:13 85:19

113:10 120:23,24

121:6 153:16

171:23 189:2

190:3 191:6,9,12

192:8,11 193:1,3

194:1,3

depositions 1:13

51:23

described 156:3

designed 67:15

97:15

desire 61:19

desk 38:8

destroy 8:2

detail 100:7

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details 33:12 77:1

determination

35:9 38:2 41:4,13

89:4,6 126:2,11,18

126:21 127:4,5

152:16,18 186:4

determine 141:8

determined

104:20

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develop 96:17

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deviated 156:16

dictionary 26:8,13

73:10 74:6

difference 139:1

149:23 159:23,24

different 16:14

19:10,17,19 20:22

22:4,6 26:20 37:6

43:24 67:16 76:21

90:10,14 92:4

102:16 123:15,17

137:7,11 138:21

138:23 140:15

152:19 160:2

163:17 165:5

167:20 170:13

182:1,3,14

differentiate

100:20 101:6

differing 158:4

difficult 20:5,7

22:1

difficulty 184:15

dillard 58:10,11

dillard's 185:3,4

185:12

dimensions 147:4

dinged 134:3

dip 159:15

diplomacy 33:21

33:21

direct 85:13

direction 85:9

directly 191:18

disagree 71:2,3

111:16 121:11

138:20 156:12,15

168:4

disagreed 149:10

149:12,17 156:21

disagreement

108:11 156:3,8

discern 22:1

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 59 of 85 PageID #:1251
discomfort 157:4

discovery 9:12

discrimination

44:13,19 45:9

48:11 52:6 62:12

88:23

discriminatory

185:20

discuss 48:23

discussed 64:15

discussion 34:6

109:7 110:20

112:8,11,16

118:10,13,13,14

121:24 122:2

123:10,13,14

137:7,24 147:9,15

147:17,21 148:4

157:3 166:7

discussions 33:22

33:24 34:8 118:8

121:18 139:6,7

140:8 165:20

dishonesty 186:6

dismissive 117:6

117:10,15 118:19

119:11 120:12

dispensation 8:6

displayed 183:6

dispute 134:2

dissatisfaction

172:6

dissertation 13:13

district 1:1,1,12

diversity 49:13

division 1:2

docket 30:12,13

doctoral 16:20

document 7:24 9:9

28:17 30:7,17

31:14 32:5 53:15

53:18,24 60:8,14

75:17,19,22 76:2,5

76:6 79:1,6 82:13

82:18,21 83:3

85:19 92:20 96:6

97:17,21 113:10

113:16,18,21,24

114:4 120:1 129:7

157:14 174:17

documentation

3:9 54:19

documented 164:6

documents 7:21

9:11 35:14 55:5,7

55:8,11,22,24

76:24 77:3 170:4

172:10

doing 6:3 12:20

14:5,23 15:24

29:13 36:3,7,7

168:16

donors 33:1

dossier 40:9 77:1,5

107:1 109:6

121:23 122:9,22

129:7,12,14,22,24

130:9 131:8,22

132:24 148:5

185:8 188:11,12

double 134:20

doubt 114:8,11

dr 9:19 10:22 11:8

23:23 31:13 35:12

35:17 43:11 44:5

44:13,18 45:8

46:4 49:19 50:4

50:17,23 51:7

52:1,6,21,24 53:2

53:13 54:4,23

57:11 64:12 65:9

67:8 71:7,24 72:7

72:18 74:11 76:1

76:16,23 77:5,12

77:14,22 78:3,10

78:12,19 79:22

80:9 81:17,23

82:22 87:14 88:3

88:12,15 89:17,22

91:13 94:24 98:24

100:14 107:1,11

107:21 108:14

110:14,21 113:9

113:19 114:1,13

115:5,11,23 117:9

117:11,13 118:17

119:9,20 120:11

120:13 123:21

124:7,10,13,16,17

124:20,21,23

125:4,9,12 126:9

126:10,15,24

137:8,10 138:22

139:18 140:22

141:7 143:8 147:6

150:4,10 153:15

158:1 167:13

168:13,23 169:24

170:1,7,19,22

173:3,9 180:5

181:3 185:3,4

186:23 187:13

188:8,11 189:17

drafts 83:7,8

188:24

draw 22:11 68:2

133:19

drew 18:5 19:2,23

drink 8:15

drive 2:8

driven 67:22

drug 8:12

due 3:11

duly 4:4 143:4

191:5

e

e 3:1,6 4:9,10,10

earlier 57:12

58:14,17 116:9

133:19 143:10

144:10 150:18

152:3,20 166:3,5

183:22 186:22

188:18

earliest 99:4

early 19:21 83:1

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12:17

earning 162:12

easier 116:18

131:4

easiest 26:9

east 2:13 27:21

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140:21 141:5,6,11

167:9

eating 121:6

economics 184:19

edition 26:14

editor 176:3

educational 18:15

eeo 3:9 45:2,10,12

45:16 46:4,6 47:3

47:22,24 49:19

50:4,10,23 51:7

52:21,24 53:2,13

54:18 55:11 57:14

70:11 107:1

effective 182:17

182:20

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 60 of 85 PageID #:1252
effort 74:4

eight 8:16 56:11

either 29:22 49:2

66:20 69:16 127:6

173:10,11 175:5

177:21 185:23

electronic 64:19

elicit 46:15

eligible 18:10

elite 102:21

email 3:8,9,10

30:6,20 54:5,7

79:4 80:15,19

86:1 192:17

emailed 28:2

85:17

emails 64:11,14

86:7 87:4

embarked 172:8

176:7

emphasis 159:18

emphasizes

175:14

employ 151:24

employee 191:15

191:16

employment

185:20

enclosed 192:11

ended 83:9

ends 138:4

engage 110:1

122:8

engaged 156:19

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enrollment 49:7

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194:9

entering 24:5

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43:22 76:12

174:17 193:5

194:5

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180:5,10,15

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errata 192:13,18

194:7,10,18 195:1

especially 99:18

esq 192:5

esteban 1:10 3:3,8

3:10 4:2,10,11,15

23:22,23 30:7

31:13 53:18 54:4

54:23 57:11 64:12

65:9 67:8 75:19

76:1 79:6,22

82:13 85:19 91:13

98:24 107:21

113:9,10,19

114:13 139:18

143:2,8 168:23

169:24 188:8

189:17 191:5

192:8 193:4,9

194:4,13 195:20

et 192:6 193:3

194:3

evaluate 42:15

132:3 145:13

153:6,10

evaluated 42:12

42:13 133:5,7

161:1 181:24

182:4,7

evaluating 90:9

94:11,13,18 95:1

102:22 150:3

evaluation 100:4

122:17 123:5

128:14 132:22

133:1,11 136:15

140:8,13 149:9

158:24 163:18

167:21 168:2,5,9

177:6 182:11

187:20

evaluations 102:1

108:12 109:9

117:7,14 118:6,18

119:10 120:12

133:14,24 134:5

138:21 141:7

148:15,22 149:6

154:16 155:10,17

156:4,9 158:19

evaluative 62:19

174:18 175:9

events 32:24 81:4

everybody 6:20

139:13

evidence 96:24

105:10 127:20

128:8 137:1

143:21 145:16

172:11,13 183:1,6

183:13,15,18,24

184:4,6 185:1,2

189:2

evolving 158:3,12

161:5,5

evp 49:11

exact 57:22

exactly 23:19

69:15 166:9

172:12

examination 1:10

3:4,4,5 4:5 64:20

105:17,20 132:23

143:6 188:6

examined 4:4

100:12 143:4

example 32:23

33:16 34:7 102:13

103:2 132:21

134:21 158:13,16

162:4,4 166:14

169:5 187:6

exceed 25:3

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100:11,21 101:6

135:11 137:12,21

137:23 172:7

exchange 86:7

174:3

exchanged 87:3

excuse 29:18

77:15 84:22

executed 194:10

execution 193:14

194:19

exhaustive 67:19

exhibit 3:7,8,8,9

3:10,12,12,13 28:4

29:21 30:4,5,8

53:16,19 75:18,20

75:23 79:2,7

82:11,14,15,18

83:3 85:17,18,20

86:8 87:4 92:7

98:17,20,22 99:10

99:14 104:22

105:1 108:4 113:4

113:5,11,17

116:14,16,24

121:22 122:12,13

122:20,21 127:10

127:15 143:14

154:21,22 155:4

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 61 of 85 PageID #:1253
155:23 157:15

171:16 181:2

189:1

exist 93:21 94:1,3

existing 33:18

expect 25:22,24

26:15,18 52:12

159:22,23

expectation

104:17,18 136:5

expectations

92:15 136:4

159:14,14

expected 25:3 52:4

75:4 129:6,11

159:10

experience 24:19

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194:25 195:25

explained 91:17

extent 10:14 29:14

34:8 47:18,21

48:1 51:1 85:11

86:23 114:20

188:16

external 32:14

33:4

f

face 44:3

facebook 41:24

fact 48:18 49:3

61:16 70:1 118:3

123:12 172:14

175:5

factors 148:14,21

149:5 154:15

155:9,16

facts 138:10,10

144:5 145:9 146:4

171:2

faculty 24:5 25:13

26:1,22,23 28:17

28:19 29:4,13

35:2,10 36:11,22

37:1,9 39:1,3,10

39:11 40:4,10,19

40:21,24 41:5

42:17,19,20,22

43:6,20 44:2

45:17 47:3 48:10

59:1,14 60:1,3,6

60:11 61:6,6

62:14,17 63:10

65:17 67:2,17,21

68:4,10,20,21

69:18 76:6,16

81:5,7 88:21 92:6

92:8,14,15,17,19

93:3,6 94:4,10,11

94:16,17,18 95:12

96:17 97:10,16,17

97:22 98:18

104:15 110:1

120:5,7 121:15

122:8,11 130:9

150:16 151:8

153:1,20 158:5,18

158:20 160:24

163:18,21 164:7,9

164:11 166:18

167:3 176:23

180:14,16,22

181:21 182:10,15

183:23 184:1

187:3 188:13

fail 99:7

failed 130:13

fair 20:13,16 42:1

74:13 103:20

107:10 116:11

122:17 123:4

125:3 146:8

166:10 167:23

fairly 119:1 141:5

141:6

faith 70:3 72:21

73:1,7,9,15 74:3,6

74:9,10

fall 45:5

familiar 24:21,21

31:13,17,21 32:3

39:22 71:18 88:8

88:14 113:18

185:11

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family 18:11

184:20

fantastic 28:7

far 5:3

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120:23 121:1

131:16

father 27:20

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february 1:15

15:2

federal 1:11

feedback 9:16

feel 63:14 67:8

91:23 141:10

feeling 8:22

127:19 136:24

140:23,24 143:19

felt 125:20 139:1

141:9 162:7

187:13

field 102:9,13,24

103:5

fields 134:21

fifth 153:18

figure 49:24

file 40:24 44:8

59:2,15 61:18

74:15 75:23 78:19

80:9 127:3 139:8

139:10,13,15,17

139:19,20 140:3,7

140:22 145:13

161:1 185:12

filed 44:23,24 45:9

45:17 47:3 53:1

57:14 59:20

115:13

files 42:12,14,16

115:24 186:2

filing 46:7 70:11

116:2,3

final 110:22 189:3

finally 144:21

financial 32:14

financially 191:17

find 25:23 36:6

47:2 192:11

finding 125:21

174:3

findings 105:12

177:6 178:4

fine 31:11 65:5

154:3 178:20

188:1

finished 18:19,21

34:2 82:24

finishes 141:14

firm 27:13

first 4:3 5:6 13:14

18:11 19:4,15

20:1 24:20 32:5

41:17 43:19 61:24

62:7 67:3 69:14

80:18 93:14 96:5

97:13 109:17,18

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 62 of 85 PageID #:1254
134:14 154:6

159:8 181:7

fitzgerald 2:2,2

fitzgeraldbramw...

2:5

five 57:5 58:1

134:22 169:9

188:2

flawed 158:8

focus 12:3 16:21

147:4 160:1

folks 51:8

follow 36:12

166:23

followed 62:10

89:1 90:13 100:6

132:15,20 171:14

175:12

following 8:2

69:12 136:17

159:12 162:7

167:24

follows 4:4 143:5

footnote 105:8,9

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193:13 194:18

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forgive 16:11

110:8

form 63:16 67:10

92:11 98:13

103:17 120:18

135:24 138:16

139:22 141:13

146:3,23 147:11

147:24 161:10,23

163:3 164:1,16

169:2 171:3

173:12

formal 97:5,15

98:5 117:3 122:15

123:3 172:5

formulate 45:24

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137:24 139:3

140:8 166:10

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107:24 108:1

119:19 167:14

foundation 52:8

52:15 54:20 72:2

100:23 101:7,17

110:19 111:3

114:21 116:5

founded 18:14

founding 18:13

four 13:18 21:1

37:2 42:4 69:8

124:6 153:18

157:8 160:8 188:3

fourth 21:2 26:13

160:11,12

frank 157:3

free 193:14 194:20

freedom 62:9

68:13,23 88:22

front 60:8,18

99:11

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138:4

full 13:10 14:13

36:6 60:7,9,12,13

109:6,18,24

110:15 112:10,14

112:23 114:6

115:2,4,15 116:10

121:23 122:22

127:15 132:7,9

fully 96:18 115:3

fun 128:5

function 52:5

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fundraising 32:14

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further 80:16

143:5 191:11,14

fyi 131:18

g

g 3:10 4:9

gabe 30:23 31:9

46:9,18,21 48:1

85:11 155:3 166:8

gabriel 1:9 3:3 4:2

4:9 143:2 191:4

192:8 193:4,9

194:4,13 195:20

garbled 44:16

gc 51:8,12,13,13

51:16,18

geared 77:18

general 2:12 23:15

33:13,14,24 45:14

45:22 46:10 49:5

77:9 82:2,4 83:6

83:13 84:19 85:9

85:14 86:8,11,24

generally 22:10,14

34:10 37:13 99:19

181:22

getting 44:10

74:20 85:9 152:19

ghanem 1:6 2:17

10:9,23,24 35:12

35:17 78:10 89:22

94:24 124:10,13

124:16,20,21

125:4 153:15

185:16 192:6

193:3 194:3

ghanem's 10:22

give 5:19 6:6,10

39:24 44:20 81:16

102:13 127:7

132:21 158:13,15

167:9 169:5

178:18

given 161:7,8

165:12 169:6

170:4,7,19,22

178:23 191:10

gives 179:2

glad 37:4 139:11

go 5:14 10:5 11:10

14:3,18 15:6 16:7

17:14 18:11 22:17

23:6 24:10,15

26:16,22 27:2

28:11 29:8 31:10

34:8 35:5 37:18

38:11,14,21 40:5

47:7 48:19,21

49:1 52:19 53:8

58:23 60:20 80:16

82:12 89:7 92:6

96:14 97:4 102:11

108:16 131:18

134:10 136:20

139:18 148:15,21

149:6 152:6

154:15 155:10,16

157:22 160:9

161:24 164:19,21

166:5 171:4 175:7

goal 122:9

goes 37:9 40:7,8

40:10,12 59:10

102:23 119:20

157:1

going 5:18,19 6:19

7:8 21:16 22:11

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 63 of 85 PageID #:1255
23:19 34:13 39:5

45:18 46:19 61:3

67:15 68:1 78:4

82:10 83:20 84:5

84:6,9 86:9,13

87:8 89:6,7

103:20 111:8

113:4 116:18,19

120:17 121:20

133:19 139:18

140:6 141:12,14

146:22 157:10,11

157:17 161:5

165:7,8 175:7

178:10,19,24

good 7:14 72:21

73:1,7,9,15 74:3,6

74:8,9,10 79:20

100:15,21 101:6

135:11,11 137:8

137:20 143:12

167:24,24 168:1

gotten 138:14

165:9

grace 157:19

gradations 16:14

grade 78:5 103:21

graded 104:3

grading 104:9

graduate 11:12,16

11:18,19

grammar 128:5

grant 8:5 65:22

66:9 126:24 127:6

151:5 157:18

granted 69:20

88:3,15 99:18

135:23

granting 152:8,23

gravity 145:6

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greets 43:5

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ground 5:15 62:11

63:19

grounds 46:2

47:20 62:5 63:23

132:14

group 102:22

guess 12:10 23:22

24:2 30:2 56:24

57:3 66:14 76:20

90:21 109:23

121:24 138:7

139:6 153:6

159:23 168:12

186:2,17 187:4,5

guidance 96:17

98:4,7,11 161:8,14

163:16,22,23

164:5,5,22 165:12

166:17,20 167:4

167:15 170:8,20

170:23 172:14

guide 29:13 62:14

76:16

guidelines 24:22

62:10 68:23 88:24

90:6 100:8 101:4

101:15 132:5

136:17 180:24

guy 27:24

h

h 3:6

half 13:23 56:3,10

170:5 183:4

hall 4:23 15:7,10

15:21 16:3,23

17:2,8,20,23 18:23

27:8,12

hall's 22:6

hand 88:12,13

191:20

handbook 3:8

28:18,19 29:4

30:18 32:4 35:9

36:13 37:24 38:22

39:22 41:5 60:16

60:17,23 61:14

62:18 68:11 81:14

88:21 90:7,12

92:7,8,14,17,19

96:4 97:10 98:19

130:9 150:16

151:8 153:1,20

180:14,16,22

181:21 184:2

handled 29:5

50:10

handling 50:15

handy 26:8

happen 128:17

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happens 40:14,20

41:2,13 58:16,19

59:9

happy 80:21

harassing 63:23

hard 44:2 46:14

72:18,19 78:7

176:16

hazard 51:23

head 154:20

headhunter 27:18

health 17:23 18:2

18:3

hear 65:5,7 86:19

91:4 99:5 152:9

176:17

heard 69:11 84:24

hearing 7:14

115:12

heavy 74:15,20

75:3,8,15

held 163:23

help 10:5 35:14

83:10 92:21 131:4

154:17,18 181:8

helped 87:15

hereunto 191:20

hey 27:19 131:19

hi 80:21

hiccup 41:7

hierarchal 22:24

hierarchical 22:14

23:2,2

high 10:4

highlighted

116:24 117:1

119:17 157:23

158:2 172:5,15

hill 12:24

history 70:11

hit 135:7,9,20,21

136:5,7 137:11

hoc 103:11 163:14

hold 13:19 137:6

154:23

holtschneider

27:22

honest 110:2

118:14 119:12

122:3

honestly 84:4

111:14 131:14

honesty 93:7,11

94:13 95:1

honolulu 12:2

hooked 19:15

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 64 of 85 PageID #:1256
hope 46:13 78:10

86:2 89:21 157:18

hopefully 92:11

horrible 32:18

173:23

hour 1:16 55:16

hours 8:16 56:11

57:1,2 71:23

107:5 108:21

120:24 179:1

house 9:22

houston 13:15,17

19:9 22:8 42:2

160:5,15

hr 51:7 52:1,4

huh 6:8 37:11

46:24 54:9,10

56:12 57:7 80:2,3

105:5 109:2,3

132:16 175:20,21

human 6:1 7:12

50:14,19

humor 89:22

humoring 99:8

hypothetical 24:9

25:17 26:4 88:5

104:6 119:14

133:18 134:9,13

135:17 164:18

167:10 169:3

hypothetically

151:18

i

identification 30:8

53:19 75:20 79:7

82:14 85:20

113:11

ii 105:9

illinois 1:1,15,15

2:4,9,14 191:1,3

191:21

imagine 16:16

20:12 118:24

immigrants 18:14

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81:4 98:3,6 132:7

impressed 5:12

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104:6 119:13

134:8

improve 159:5

inaccurate 119:9

inappropriate

63:24

inaudible 70:2

inbox 28:5

include 115:23

130:8,21 180:22

180:23

included 129:22

129:24,24 130:12

130:16,17 192:13

includes 32:13

49:5

including 134:23

incompetence

71:21

incomplete 25:17

26:4 164:17 169:2

inconsistencies

172:9

inconsistent 161:8

161:13,21 162:3

162:24 163:16,22

163:22 164:4,6,13

164:22 165:12

166:17,20,22

167:4,15 170:8,19

170:23

incorporated

194:12

incorrect 15:16

167:22

increase 168:1

increases 158:22

158:23

independent 40:9

105:16,20

indicated 152:12

153:20

indicating 192:13

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individual 46:7

100:4

individuals 43:24

137:19

indulge 51:22

information 3:10

46:10,15,22 74:21

76:20 83:22 115:6

116:10 117:16

152:19

informed 29:12

81:4 160:16

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172:12

inherited 7:15,16

initial 121:21

166:23

initially 12:10

13:20 167:21,23

initiated 122:16

123:3

input 29:3

instance 67:3

81:21,22 169:6

instances 34:18

institution 16:20

18:17 19:1 21:22

21:24 32:12,15

43:22 158:20

162:13 165:4

institutional 13:23

14:7 49:13

institutions 19:10

20:23 21:5 22:5

22:20 34:21

102:14,17 165:4

instruct 48:2

86:22 87:9

instructed 131:3

instruction 48:13

84:10 178:17

instructions 85:9

integrity 71:20

intellectual 93:7

93:10 94:13 95:1

intellectually

110:2 118:14

119:12 122:3

intention 27:11

74:7

intentions 74:8

interact 19:20

21:12,13,14

interacting 25:14

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76:21 191:18

interim 15:12

35:22,23,24 36:1,4

internal 33:5

internet 30:21

79:11

interposing

131:20

interpretation

148:13,19 149:4

154:13 155:8,14

interrogatories

9:8

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intimidated

127:19 136:24

140:24 141:1,9,10

143:20

intimidating 117:5

117:9,14 118:19

119:10 120:12

invading 50:2

investigate 52:11

52:19

investigating 52:5

investigation

52:13 106:2

investment 12:21

investments 33:17

invocation 181:4

involve 34:10,18

involved 33:21,22

34:14 36:15,16,19

37:3,20 38:5

involves 68:24

involving 33:7

irvine 12:5 13:6,7

island 5:1

issue 50:16 109:8

132:10,10 133:4

133:10 150:16

157:3 166:19

168:14,14

issued 104:15

issues 47:23 132:1

italicized 127:12

items 48:22 49:1

j

jackson 2:13

jan 3:11

january 13:2

15:13 78:19 80:8

80:21 81:12 82:8

98:23 143:15

japanese 12:1

jerk 6:10

jerry 64:18 99:6

111:17 177:10

job 13:14 19:5,16

20:1 24:20 90:10

jog 43:9

jogged 43:15

joined 124:20

153:15 160:20,23

160:23

joke 28:14 186:19

jose 51:14

journal 133:23

journals 102:16

102:19 134:1

135:3

judge 71:4 72:11

73:23 111:8,21,23

131:19 137:23

179:4

judged 100:11

judging 175:11

judgment 26:11

62:17 89:11 120:4

140:14 149:14

168:8,8 174:19

176:22 187:2,19

july 15:12 29:2

justification 55:9

k

k 3:11 191:2

kathryn 2:13

kathy 51:15 86:2

keep 7:17 10:2

184:15

keeping 159:18

keeps 81:4

kept 131:20

kids 65:1

kind 44:15

knew 27:20

know 5:24 6:11

7:5 16:13,17

22:10 23:18,19

27:8 29:24 31:20

43:2 44:4,6,12,18

48:9 53:1,12,16,21

62:22,23 65:10

66:5 67:10 68:1

70:20 71:6,8,15,16

71:19,23 77:18

78:7 82:15 84:4

86:12 89:20 90:18

91:13 96:7 99:5

103:22 105:6

108:6,20 109:14

110:11 113:8

114:11 116:8,15

120:9,22 121:9,23

131:2 132:6,18,18

133:19,21 134:1

135:15,19 136:21

138:3,4,8,9,11,14

148:7 152:4,22

154:5,11,19

157:11 162:22

165:23 167:2

173:4,8 177:18

178:5 183:8,10

187:4,24

knowledge 73:12

73:14

l

l 4:9

labeled 53:24 79:5

82:19 86:3 127:16

labeling 29:20

lacks 52:8,15

laid 35:8 90:6,11

123:16

language 78:6

large 19:7 49:2

104:14 146:20

larger 17:17 18:4

law 2:2

lawsuit 9:19 11:8

116:3

lc 104:24

lc0003993 82:19

lc0004000 171:17

lc3998 108:5

127:16

lead 134:18 135:7

leadership 44:2

leading 189:12

learn 48:10

learned 52:20,23

learning 47:22

leave 27:8 173:14

leaving 27:11

lecturer 12:11

led 5:13

left 13:13 14:1

legal 9:20,21 46:11

48:23 192:1 195:1

legitimate 144:22

186:18,20

letter 3:12,13

76:15 77:14 82:22

91:17 98:23 105:2

108:4,10,17

110:12 115:6,11

143:14,16 148:7

157:24 187:7,8

192:19

letting 121:9

level 34:5 38:4,10

40:2 59:7 65:18

67:20,20 78:16

89:1,2,14 90:12,13

103:13,19 104:19

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 66 of 85 PageID #:1258
104:21 123:19

128:17,23 129:1,2

129:3 131:6 132:3

132:4 133:2

136:11 140:15

145:7 149:11,15

149:18 162:11

163:9,10,12

165:24 168:2,4,11

180:24 182:1,1,9

187:14

levels 47:6 58:23

67:16 89:13 90:10

123:15,18 136:13

137:7 138:22,24

146:7,7 147:3

168:10 176:23

182:3,12,14

lexa 80:21

liberal 104:13

life 5:13

lifting 74:15,20

75:3,8,16

limited 150:17

limits 151:12

line 23:16 39:3,10

84:5 96:11,16

97:5,10 119:20,22

119:23,24 120:3,4

135:16,19,20,22

136:4,6,7 140:4

166:11 192:13

194:7 195:3

lines 96:14

link 41:22

linkedin 41:18

lisa 1:3 2:17 43:2

58:3,11 192:6

193:3 194:3

list 48:18,19,21

49:1

listed 68:10 194:7

194:17

listing 194:7

litigation 10:9

little 10:21 30:2

58:18 76:21 92:21

116:17 129:10

131:4 157:18

159:17 171:24

live 22:12 64:23

68:3 133:20

living 158:22

liz 49:17 50:12

local 24:22 38:4

40:2 58:23 59:7,8

59:9 62:10 67:19

78:16 89:2 90:13

100:8 101:3,14

103:13,18 104:19

104:21 149:11,15

149:18 168:2

176:23 180:23

187:3

lodge 23:15 73:21

165:8

log 86:12

logged 86:12

long 13:16 14:16

14:21 15:9 91:16

147:9,21 148:4

163:9 170:5

longer 163:10

look 24:22 25:3

35:13 37:23 40:23

45:6 48:17 60:5

60:11,19 62:11

65:24 92:18 96:4

98:17,21 100:8

101:24 102:20

103:9 108:3

116:13 120:3,4,14

134:19,24 140:7,7

140:12 148:6

152:13 154:7,9,18

155:18 156:24

157:13 170:4

171:15 181:1

183:5,6,7 184:18

186:2 187:9,10

188:1

looked 18:9 44:8

55:12 76:24 77:2

77:3 105:18

156:23 170:3

173:17 174:24

175:13 185:13,15

looking 33:16

55:14 60:21,24

61:7 109:15,17

128:14 148:10

155:5 167:12

173:1 174:16

175:1 176:14

179:14

looks 80:19 81:10

82:24 86:1 103:14

108:24 109:18

153:15

loosely 43:23

lost 107:21

lot 20:14,17,23

32:24 33:4 109:14

110:20 120:23,24

131:16 183:9

love 9:24 172:17

172:18

lower 89:12

168:10

lunch 141:22

142:1 143:9,13

m

m 4:14

madam 91:6

192:10

main 68:11

making 23:12

29:13 62:15 74:10

81:20 95:2 119:18

124:22 135:17

149:9 179:20

185:19

malice 74:7

management 49:7

manner 16:24

110:2 122:3 176:8

176:12 178:11

march 191:21

192:4

margin 25:4

mark 137:11

marked 7:22,24

30:7 53:15,18

75:18,19,23 79:2,6

82:13 85:19

113:10

marketing 12:4

14:9 15:1 49:9

102:14

martin 29:15

33:22

master's 11:24

12:14,18

mater 12:11

material 62:1 69:1

69:3,4 84:6

106:22,23,24

110:1 122:9

127:22 128:10

129:14,21,23

130:12 131:7

137:3,15 138:1,7

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 67 of 85 PageID #:1259
138:12,24 143:23

144:11 145:18,24

146:1,21 147:22

148:5 166:22

167:3,16 168:17

179:17

materials 62:23

67:2 87:16 107:1

115:24 130:16,16

188:12

mathematician

100:17

mathematics

11:15

matter 23:3,9,10

48:18 49:3

matters 46:11

mba 11:22

mckeown 185:14

mean 9:22 10:10

12:8 19:13,24

22:19 23:9,10

27:5 34:4 38:18

39:11 42:13 43:19

48:21,22 63:20

68:12 70:22 71:8

71:16 73:11 74:20

75:2 81:21 100:2

100:17 101:21,21

101:22 103:18

112:14,22 115:2

125:10 130:18

132:2 133:17

138:20 151:11,17

158:5 161:13

167:9 174:20,21

176:8,9,11,13

177:24 181:20

183:1,8,9,10 184:4

184:12

meaning 102:21

148:13,19 149:4

150:5 154:14

155:8,15

means 64:20 71:1

93:10,15,18

132:18,19 135:11

175:13 183:2,15

183:17 184:8

meant 175:6

176:14

measure 102:8

103:8

medical 17:21,24

18:3

medication 8:11

meet 33:1,10 43:5

45:14 135:9

meeting 10:17

meetings 43:6

48:24

member 24:5

25:13 26:1,22,23

35:2 36:11,22

37:1,9 40:10,19,21

42:17,19,20,23

47:3 59:1,15

63:10 67:2 68:21

89:16 94:10,11,16

94:18 95:12 96:18

97:16 120:7

160:24 163:19,21

164:7,9,11 166:18

167:4 182:15

183:23

member's 97:18

97:22

members 45:17

48:10 49:1 61:6

67:17 71:6 90:2

104:16 187:23

memorandum

154:19

memory 43:10,15

mention 133:8

mentioned 37:5

52:20,23 57:11

77:4 116:9 120:3

133:18 146:11

181:2 183:21

mentor 19:6 20:3

mentoring 24:4

mentors 20:3 99:4

mere 123:12

merely 63:19

merit 158:21

merited 124:7

merits 62:20

met 9:9 43:4,7,16

43:17,20,22,23

71:13 159:13

160:17

metrics 102:10

midwest 192:17

195:1

mind 91:20 92:5

128:16 159:18

171:12 184:16,23

minds 137:19

minimal 136:4

minimally 25:3

minimum 136:5

minute 79:14

143:9 169:19

minutes 28:3 57:5

85:22 141:22

144:14 169:9,10

169:16,23 188:2,3

minutia 175:15

miscalculation

145:5

misread 139:10,13

139:15,17,19,20

140:3

misreading 139:8

misreads 138:11

misrepresent

157:5

misrepresentation

122:16 123:4

146:14,19,20

156:20

missed 133:3

missing 160:19

mission 18:6,7

misstatement

127:21 128:9

137:2 143:22

144:2 145:4,6,17

145:22,23

misstates 53:6

96:23 114:20

125:13 130:3

131:10,15 150:22

misstating 68:2

misunder 138:11

misunderstanding

127:21 128:9

137:2 143:22

144:3 145:16,21

145:22

misunderstood

127:18 136:23

137:14 138:5

143:18

mix 14:11

month 33:2

monthly 45:14

morning 6:23 7:6

27:17 58:15,17

mother 7:11

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 68 of 85 PageID #:1260
mother's 7:16

mountains 65:1

move 19:14 64:24

157:11

moved 50:13

moving 20:3 65:7

multiple 181:3,17

murphy 3:10,13

murphy's 77:14

music 103:2

mute 65:3

muting 64:23

n

n 3:1 4:10 152:11

name 4:8,9 10:22

44:3 46:6 192:6

193:3,4,15 194:3,4

194:21

named 15:2

names 99:6

narrative 120:18

naturally 19:14

nature 45:19

126:5

necessarily 159:20

177:14,15

need 5:23 6:2,6,9

7:17 10:5 28:11

54:23 60:14 79:10

81:14 97:17,22

103:21 110:18

111:22 128:16

131:19 133:22

141:15 144:3

145:5,6 159:1,6

166:1 168:23

174:5 178:22

182:21

needed 159:5

160:16 162:7

negative 118:4,5,7

147:5 157:9

negatives 146:10

nerd 128:5

never 5:8 19:3

42:22

new 26:13,22

30:24 33:16,20

80:22

nice 137:9

noise 65:2

non 106:16

nonrenewal 38:3,9

nonrenewals

37:21

nonrenewed 37:17

39:6

nontraditional

19:8

normal 6:1

normally 170:4

175:23

north 2:8

northern 1:1

nos 3:7

notarized 192:14

notary 192:24

193:10,18 194:15

194:23 195:23

note 192:12

notion 173:17

notwithstanding

172:5

number 17:23

30:13 37:15 48:22

57:22 103:23,24

104:1 120:5 134:4

134:5 188:24

192:7,13

numbers 53:22

82:11 102:4 194:7

o

o 4:14 191:2,2

o'clock 141:22

o'connor 2:7

28:11

oath 4:15 5:15

object 7:6 26:3

45:18 46:16 47:19

63:18 69:21 80:10

83:20 86:9 91:11

114:19 120:17

141:3,12 146:22

164:16 169:1

171:1,2 173:12

188:16

objection 7:7 16:6

17:3,10 20:18

21:6 22:11,15

23:4,15 24:7

25:16 27:1 35:4

39:13 41:19 46:1

47:4,14 48:4

49:20 50:5,24

51:1,9 52:7,14

53:3 54:20 55:17

56:5,14 57:16

58:5 63:7 66:10

67:4,11 68:2,14

70:13 72:2,8

74:17 75:11 88:4

92:11 94:5 95:22

96:23 97:14 98:13

100:23 101:7,17

104:5 105:21

106:7,18 107:12

110:3,23 111:17

114:7 115:16

116:5 117:22

119:2,13 121:4

122:4 125:13

128:19 130:2

131:10 133:20

134:8 135:24

138:16 139:22

144:5 145:9 146:3

147:11,24 150:22

161:10,23 162:22

163:3 164:1

165:15 168:19

180:8 189:12

objections 21:17

48:12 63:23 73:22

115:7 121:1

131:15,20 165:8

168:22

objective 101:16

101:20

objectively 102:8

103:8 133:15,17

135:20 138:10

obligation 93:3,6

94:12,17,24 95:10

95:15,18,21

obligations 93:21

94:1,4 165:13

167:5,16 170:9

observations

102:5

obtaining 58:18

obviously 6:23

37:8 61:20 131:6

132:6 152:2,17

179:19

occasion 32:6

occupational

51:23 103:4

occur 144:3 145:7

occurs 147:21

october 35:19

offer 68:5 154:20

offered 20:4

173:21 174:2,2

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 69 of 85 PageID #:1261
offhand 187:24

office 2:12 29:6

45:14,22 46:11

49:12 50:11,12

80:23 82:1,2,4,5

83:6,13 84:19

85:15 86:11

191:21

officer 13:24

offices 2:2

official 130:20

193:15 194:21

ogc 45:22

oh 5:2 35:16 78:24

79:19 107:24

129:3

ohio 192:2

oide 49:12,15 52:1

52:21

okay 4:11,13,18

5:2,18,22 6:6,15

7:5,11,20 9:14,15

9:21 10:3,6,13,20

10:24 11:10 12:13

12:15,20 13:4,6,8

13:12,16,19 14:1,3

14:14,18,21 15:9

15:14 16:11,22

17:16,19 19:2

23:1,20 25:12

27:14 28:22 29:1

29:7 31:11,16

32:3,6 34:10,15,17

34:23 35:21,24

36:5,9,16 37:4,20

38:11,20 39:9

40:14,19,23 41:2

41:12,15,17 42:13

42:17 45:4,7,24

46:11,12,23 49:4

49:18 50:15,18,22

51:20 54:4,12,14

54:18 55:7,10,13

56:3 57:4 58:22

59:8 61:10 62:6

62:13,21 64:14,21

66:5,20 67:24

68:8,12 69:7,8,16

74:13 75:1,17

76:4,8 77:5,11,24

78:15,18 79:15,20

80:10,14,24 81:10

81:19 82:12,21,24

83:15 86:1 92:6

93:3 96:10 97:7,9

98:10,17 99:16,22

102:2 103:20,22

105:8 106:23

107:7 108:9,18

109:5,20 111:12

112:10,22 113:3

114:4 116:9,21

117:22 118:15

119:8,22 122:23

123:17 124:1,6,16

124:21 125:7,23

126:3,20 127:5,10

127:13 129:3,15

130:11,22,22,23

131:24 132:17

133:3 135:14

136:3,20 137:13

137:17 138:2

143:12 147:8,10

147:17 148:10

151:5,13 153:3,9

154:1,8,11 155:5

155:22,24 156:2

156:23 157:17,22

158:17 160:3,14

160:20 161:3

162:14 164:8

165:23 169:18

170:6,22 171:9,15

171:20 172:4

173:19 179:10

181:1 183:8 184:8

185:14 186:12

188:1,8,22 189:5

once 19:4

ones 102:3 181:20

open 17:21 28:8

28:16 154:23

opened 17:22

opinion 23:10

26:10 68:5 69:5,6

75:2 121:15

165:22,23 166:1

167:7,8 168:7

opinions 158:4

opportunity 182:2

opposed 39:6

175:10,11 186:24

option 150:20

152:9 153:19

options 18:15

150:12,13,17,19

151:4,5,7,9,12,13

151:24 152:11

153:2,4,11,14,18

153:22,23,24

154:3,5,7,8

order 7:23 8:1

189:22,24

original 190:1

ortiz 49:17,18

ortiz's 50:12

outcome 178:8

outline 92:14

outside 9:22

overall 172:6

overly 175:15

oversaw 14:7

oversight 32:12

overstepped 72:22

168:7 170:11

overstepping

140:11

overturn 107:17

126:14

p

p.m. 80:21 142:2,2

padilla 51:14

page 3:2,7 76:11

80:17,18,19 92:18

92:20 96:6 97:8

99:13,14,15

104:23 105:4,7

108:3,8,16 109:5

109:10,12,13,19

116:13,16,23

122:12,19,20

127:10,15 136:21

143:15 148:6,9

156:1 157:7,13,16

157:20 171:15,18

181:5,8 192:13,15

194:7 195:3

pages 3:16 28:18

77:6 170:5

panel 61:11 62:1,3

65:15,16 66:21,24

68:4,9 69:19 70:1

71:7,24 72:7,17

74:10,14 76:8

paragraph 109:15

109:18 122:12

123:1 127:11,15

128:5,6 136:21

143:16 144:17

156:12,18 172:4

172:18

[offhand - paragraph] Page 20

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 70 of 85 PageID #:1262
parameters

135:18

part 13:23 20:6

30:14 32:15 49:2

50:20 54:13 55:5

55:6,21 89:14

119:17 124:19

129:7,14,17 130:6

130:9 131:22

155:5,6 158:23

174:19 179:13

194:9

particular 6:2

89:12 133:24

153:7 159:4

177:18

particularly 6:2

120:7

parties 191:16

parts 31:18,21

83:12,16

party 29:23 30:14

path 162:10

pattern 122:16

123:3 156:19

pay 129:1 158:21

pc 2:7

pedantic 172:9,20

172:24 174:15,16

174:20,23 175:13

175:23 176:2,7

179:13

peers 67:16

102:22 123:15,17

123:18,21 181:24

182:4,7

pejorative 175:23

176:2,8,11

pending 91:1

people 38:11

41:22 172:18

people's 99:6

percent 33:2 84:2

106:5 117:11,13

118:18 119:9,19

120:11 121:13

183:3,9,10,11

percentage 18:9

18:10

percentages 84:1

183:5 184:17

perform 172:13

performances

103:1

period 37:10

96:22 158:4,6

permanent 103:11

person 63:20,21

70:8,11 71:14

103:10 111:13

personal 6:24

47:11,12 69:5

personally 48:17

71:8,10 166:15

193:11 194:15

personnel 38:19

40:6 59:7 117:4

119:18 129:4

132:22 136:11

182:10 187:16

pertaining 1:12

phd 12:3 13:5

philippines 11:11

11:23 12:12

philosophy 25:2

phone 14:14 71:4

73:24 192:3

photo 43:9

phrase 182:24

pick 32:7 133:12

133:13,13

piece 20:6 110:19

131:2

place 23:11,13

107:22,24 108:1

plaintiff 1:4 2:6

planning 12:22

13:24 14:8 19:13

plays 34:12

please 4:7 6:16

7:18 10:1 28:7

35:15 51:22 53:16

55:1 67:10 73:19

80:22 82:15 84:12

84:16 85:5 87:11

91:8 96:8 99:13

105:6 108:3,7

109:10 112:2,4

113:8 114:17

117:19 148:8

156:6 181:13

192:11,11

point 27:11 40:13

92:22 119:20

156:17 157:1

159:15 163:7

187:7

pointed 159:20

points 37:18

103:23,24 104:1

104:11

pop 64:13

popped 28:5 31:2

population 19:12

portfolio 41:3

132:23,24

portions 77:8

position 177:18

positive 118:3,5,7

147:9

positives 112:18

possibility 20:4

possible 153:24

power 151:22

powers 153:10

practice 93:7,10

94:13 95:1

precluded 122:17

123:4

preconceived

173:17

predetermined

178:8

prejudge 179:11

prejudged 107:10

173:3,9 179:7

premise 155:7

preparation 76:17

77:19 113:23

prepare 8:24 9:6

83:15 97:16,24

prepared 55:8

83:11,12

preponderance

182:24 183:15,24

184:4,24

present 2:16 62:1

presentation

102:24

presented 118:4

183:19 184:6

185:1

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118:5

president 3:8 4:18

4:21,22 5:7 7:1,3

8:5 14:6 15:12,12

32:11 33:10 34:23

34:24 49:7,8,9,10

49:11 63:12 65:20

69:8,13 76:7 89:2

89:5 95:14,17

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 71 of 85 PageID #:1263
141:14 150:5,6

152:21 153:22

185:23

president's 80:22

pressured 174:12

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130:19,20

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86:12

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156:5,14 158:4,6

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129:23 130:1,17

130:24 131:7,8,23

131:24 132:5,9

133:2,4,10,15

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150:16 163:24

164:10,14 165:14

167:3,17 168:18

170:23 171:11,12

181:3,17,19,23

182:16,16,17,20

procedurally

158:8 164:23

186:24

procedure 1:11

125:22 126:4

164:23 171:14

193:5 194:5

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88:24 90:11 100:5

126:6,8 132:15,20

175:12

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24:16 31:6

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36:3,12,14,15,17

36:19,23,24 37:3

38:3,21 39:19,20

39:22 40:1 52:18

55:6 58:15 61:15

67:14,18,22 89:15

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156:16 158:6,9

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13:22 14:9 15:1

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173:20

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25:5 40:11,22

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77:2,10,13 78:12

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127:1,7 130:7

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187:15

pronounce 10:22

10:23 124:13

pronounced 4:11

78:10 86:2

pronouncing 78:8

99:2

pronunciation

78:4

proof 183:2,3,16

183:17,23 184:8

184:12

properly 6:12

62:22

pros 123:10

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181:3,17,19,23

182:16,17,18,20

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87:15 96:16 98:4

98:7 180:19 182:2

182:12

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172:14

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15:3,4,11 20:1

29:11 33:10,11,22

34:22 35:10,18,19

35:21,22,23,24

36:1,1,4,6 38:16

40:12,15,16 42:15

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 72 of 85 PageID #:1264
49:5,12 58:24

59:11 61:17,21

65:18 66:15,18

87:23,24 88:16

90:15 95:20

126:14 150:15,21

151:7,10 152:10

152:23 160:15

182:12 185:17,23

186:3

provost's 29:5

32:8

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64:24 116:4

193:10,18 194:15

194:23 195:23

publication

102:23

publications

102:18 133:23

134:6,16,18 135:2

publics 22:2

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62:3,24 65:12,14

66:23 68:4 92:8

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68:8,11 74:14

90:22 92:14 96:15

96:22

pursuant 1:10

7:22,24

put 44:3 61:13

67:24 100:2 109:6

109:21 122:23

137:17 140:4

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putting 174:9

q

qualities 7:13,13

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quality 7:15

102:16,22

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quantitative

101:21,22 102:10

question 6:16,16

6:19,21 7:9 8:20

9:3 10:20 24:2,3

24:13 25:4 32:19

45:19 46:1,17

50:1 52:22 54:24

55:3,4 62:8,22

63:19 64:3,6,7

66:6,14 71:12

72:12,14 73:15,17

73:20 75:6,8,10

80:6 83:21 84:10

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91:1,5,10 95:5,6

105:19 109:23

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114:24 117:20,21

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141:2,13,15

144:10,17,22

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162:15,16 163:5

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165:11 166:16,21

166:24 167:11

169:2 170:14,15

171:1 173:6,13,23

176:24 177:8,11

177:13,16 178:7

178:11,18 179:23

181:11,14 184:3

187:5

questioning 23:16

31:6 67:12 84:5

166:11

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5:18 31:20 46:14

63:22 77:18 85:14

86:10 131:3

171:13 188:9,23

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108:20

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104:14,15 132:11

r

r 4:9

race 69:3 96:5

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123:22,23

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ranking 17:1

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176:20 177:2,9,23

178:2 188:10,14

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48:1

read 9:8 31:18,22

32:5 41:8,10 55:3

55:4 64:7 73:19

73:20 85:4,6

86:21 91:3,7,10

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110:13 112:4,5

114:16,18 117:19

117:21 120:9,10

120:15,16 121:2

128:7 137:18

169:9,10,16

181:13,14 193:5,6

193:12 194:5,6,17

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75:10 185:22

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183:20 192:14

194:8 195:3

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110:9 132:13

149:13,13,18,19

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recall 45:6 46:3

48:15 50:22 55:15

55:21 57:22 58:19

59:24 61:4 62:18

69:15 70:5,7,10

71:13 100:10

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 73 of 85 PageID #:1265
106:11 166:12

167:20 168:3

185:22

receipt 80:23

192:18

receive 7:24 11:14

83:10 160:14

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36:21 54:6 78:18

80:9 82:20 85:21

113:8 125:9,12

166:17 167:14

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166:19 167:4

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79:23 106:13

107:6 144:15

186:1

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recommendation

40:15,16 58:24

59:10,11 63:3,4,5

66:1,4,21 67:1

73:16 76:9 78:1

89:8,17,24 95:2

107:3 125:8,11,19

126:1,13,22 175:9

recommendations

72:21,23 73:2

74:11 84:20 91:18

91:20 107:18

150:8 152:15

158:3,12 161:6

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record 4:8 6:4 7:8

28:13 29:19,21,23

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96:24 99:19,22

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187:20 191:9

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reference 117:14

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144:23

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17:11 21:7,18

22:16 23:5,16

24:8 25:17 26:3

41:19 47:15 57:16

58:6 75:12

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68:17

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151:6,9 152:10

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51:6

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64:3,6 85:2 92:22

112:2

replace 30:4

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76:11,12 112:20

118:9 141:8

156:21,24 157:7

169:16 170:1

179:14 188:24

189:3

reporter 1:14 5:22

6:7,12 41:8 53:21

55:3 64:5 73:19

79:4 82:17 85:4

91:3,6 112:4

114:16 117:19

121:2 181:13

189:22 191:23

193:7

reporter's 30:6

reports 106:24

representative

49:15

represented 6:24

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71:20

request 129:18

186:15 194:9,11

require 33:17

102:17

required 74:24

131:22 192:24

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 74 of 85 PageID #:1266
requirements

24:24 136:6,8

requisite 134:4,5

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research 13:23

14:8 16:13,14

25:10 93:19

100:22 102:7,8

103:5 133:21

134:3 135:10,11

147:19

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26:11,16,21 47:24

49:19 52:5 72:6

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81:22 93:22 106:2

110:12 112:11

140:23 162:16

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respond 84:10

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response 3:11

120:8,15 155:18

155:20 166:6,9,18

166:23 182:2,13

184:5

responses 153:24

responsibilities

14:10 15:17 32:10

responsibility

32:9

restrictions

134:17

result 176:19,20

177:3,9,23 178:2

resumed 3:4 143:6

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36:8 37:14 55:7

55:10 59:7 62:4

62:23 67:16 76:12

76:14,22 77:7,8,11

77:13,18,24 78:3

78:11,15 81:16

82:6 97:15,21

108:19 110:21,22

110:22 117:3

122:15 123:3

124:3,10 126:1

127:3 129:4,16

132:22 137:20

140:21 141:6

147:3 151:10

155:11 156:15

158:7 159:22

161:20,22 162:23

163:1 164:12,24

165:1,2 181:21

182:11 185:3,6,9

188:13 192:12

193:1 194:1

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37:16 55:8,22

76:15,16 77:6,21

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169:24 179:16

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182:22

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60:23 71:24 72:18

114:1 137:12,13

150:7 158:5

179:19,20,24

reviews 37:12 41:3

67:19 96:11,16

97:6 98:8,10

108:13 156:5,14

172:6,11

revisions 29:13

right 4:7 5:14

11:16,19 14:5

16:3,19 23:24

28:2,7 29:3,24

30:1,9 31:3,5,14

36:6,9,13 37:10,17

37:22 38:12,17,24

39:14,19 43:2,13

44:12 46:16 56:11

57:11 58:10,14

59:8,14 60:24

61:13,18,20,22

62:1,16 64:11,12

64:17 65:9,20

69:2,9 75:3 78:20

82:10 87:5 90:14

91:9 92:18 95:11

97:13 98:19 100:3

100:17 107:5,21

109:12 112:12

113:16 119:1

120:2 123:19,23

124:4,8,11 125:5,9

127:8 131:9 132:7

135:16 140:6

141:1,7,11 144:13

145:18 146:15

149:6 150:9

153:17 155:1

157:11 158:1

160:6,7,24 162:18

165:11 169:11,23

172:1 180:6

181:16,16 184:3

189:17

rights 68:21

180:16

rise 128:17 145:7

robust 118:10,13

role 20:2 23:11

68:20

roles 92:16

roster 59:24 60:3

rules 1:11 5:15

175:15 180:11,13

180:23 193:5

194:5

run 139:18

s

s 3:6,9 4:10 192:15

194:8,8 195:3

salma 1:6 2:17

10:8 185:16 192:6

193:3 194:3

satisfy 136:6,7

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save 23:17

saw 113:22,22,24

137:18,22 174:18

saying 35:16 99:5

139:20 150:19

152:9 166:12

167:22 175:3

says 8:4 61:17

80:14,15 81:11

96:10,15 100:9

104:10 109:6,21

121:13 122:13

127:16 143:16

148:11 164:23

170:7 178:3

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 75 of 85 PageID #:1267
schedule 10:18

20:10

scheduled 16:1

scholarship 93:16

93:18 100:13

102:21 133:6

135:8 159:3,9,13

162:5,10,20

school 17:21 33:20

48:11 64:24 89:13

104:12 135:12

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schools 33:9 34:9

43:21 104:17

134:14 187:22

science 11:15,24

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18:2,3 104:13

134:22

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scope 18:1 89:5

103:12

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116:18,21 157:23

171:21 172:1

181:9

seal 191:20 193:15

194:21

search 27:12 36:5

36:7 103:23 172:9

172:24 174:23

176:7 179:13

second 12:14,18

22:3 61:14 62:9

69:15 80:17,19

127:14 130:6

131:2 143:16

151:10

seconds 121:5

section 31:23

60:22 92:19 96:6

96:10 97:4 99:16

108:10 169:9,10

169:24

sections 106:4

sector 12:19 19:15

see 7:22 28:9

29:19 43:9 44:1

60:19 67:24 72:16

79:15 80:22 81:1

81:2 85:23 90:10

96:5,12,19 97:5,11

97:18 105:14

109:9 111:22

116:19 117:1,7

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137:1 143:21,24

145:15 148:15

158:2,10 159:15

170:6,10,16,17,18

171:22 172:1,4,15

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122:9

seen 20:14,17,23

22:24 31:15,17

103:4 113:20,21

117:6,10

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segment 19:7

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113:4

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53:15 54:18 79:1

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76:15 85:17,22

86:13 113:5

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127:23 128:6

148:10,16 157:23

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sentences 120:10

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serial 121:1

serve 18:9,14

19:24 20:2 60:1,3

103:23,24 104:2

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163:7,10,14

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162:8,17,17,20,21

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168:9 169:11,17

170:2,8,12 172:7

172:12 187:8,13

187:17,20

serving 4:21

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136:17,19 191:20

seton 4:22 15:7,9

15:21 16:3,23

17:1,8,20,22 18:23

22:6 27:8,12

seven 108:21

120:23

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136:23 137:14

138:6 143:19

shades 23:9 24:1

shape 63:16 67:9

103:17

share 48:8 115:5

116:18 171:21

181:8

shared 115:11

157:22

sheep 184:21

sheet 192:13 194:7

194:10,18 195:1

short 44:7 57:9

142:1 169:21

187:11 188:5

shorthand 1:14

191:23

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show 6:8 54:10

80:3 109:3 119:21

156:22 175:21

shown 192:16

shows 109:6

121:23 122:22

sick 8:22

side 34:1

sidestepped

135:14

sidestepping

162:15

sidetracked 65:10

signature 189:21

190:5 191:23

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 76 of 85 PageID #:1268
192:14

signed 193:13

194:18

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183:2,3,16,17

184:8,12

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158:21

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165:11 178:9

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122:23

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153:7

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116:11 118:2

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171:24

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195:1

somebody 39:5,6

39:20,21 61:16

118:17 120:10

138:9 161:6,7,19

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42:23

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15:21 16:5,18

18:18,19 24:15

27:16 29:8 34:2

35:12 41:6 44:17

49:24 54:10 64:18

64:22 65:2,10

78:3,24 80:5,6

82:4 84:22 85:1,7

86:19 87:24 95:4

98:5 102:11,12

105:19 117:18

124:2 129:1,10

130:13 146:1

153:13 169:14

170:14 173:6,23

175:17 176:24

177:10 181:5,10

sort 24:8 121:20

132:18

sorts 102:6

sounds 65:7

141:23 176:17

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27:16 48:19 51:20

51:24 67:22 87:13

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89:22 90:2,15,16

90:17 129:20

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180:23

speaking 48:4

91:24 92:3

special 8:5

specific 32:23

33:12 46:9 90:6

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tickets 186:10,17

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162:7,8 174:10

worked 12:19

72:18,19 83:5,5,13

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161:15,16,20,21

162:23 163:1

164:12,13

y

y 103:24

yeah 11:1 16:10

16:18 19:13 21:11

21:15,22 24:19

27:7,20,20 28:21

30:19 34:4 35:17

36:3,14 37:14

43:19 48:6,15

52:18 54:16 57:3

57:19,22 61:2,3,5

64:4 77:20 85:1,7

86:22 87:8 91:4

92:10,16 94:8

101:14 104:9

107:6 108:24

109:4 112:3

113:14 114:9

115:10 116:17

119:4,4,4,24

122:24 125:11

129:4 130:6

134:12 141:17

145:4 146:18

147:2 148:9 149:2

149:16 155:2

161:7,13 162:2,19

164:4,21 167:8

169:1,5 174:7,10

174:22 182:9

183:4 184:22

189:24

year 19:22 21:2

32:5,23 43:19

55:15 80:22

113:22 114:1

158:24 159:3,8,12

160:11,12 161:16

162:6,7 164:24

165:2,2,5 168:16

168:17

yearly 158:19

years 13:18 19:14

20:16 21:1 37:1,2

38:1 42:4 69:9

160:8,16,18

163:17

yep 97:12 156:10

169:20

yesterday 10:18

yielding 26:10

z

z 104:1

zoom 1:9 6:3

154:24

[work - zoom] Page 33

Veritext Legal Solutions

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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 83 of 85 PageID #:1275
Federal Rules of Civil Procedure

Rule 30

(e) Review By the Witness; Changes.

(1) Review; Statement of Changes. On request by the

deponent or a party before the deposition is

completed, the deponent must be allowed 30 days

after being notified by the officer that the

transcript or recording is available in which:

(A) to review the transcript or recording; and

(B) if there are changes in form or substance, to

sign a statement listing the changes and the

reasons for making them.

(2) Changes Indicated in the Officer's Certificate.

The officer must note in the certificate prescribed

by Rule 30(f)(1) whether a review was requested

and, if so, must attach any changes the deponent

makes during the 30-day period.

DISCLAIMER: THE FOREGOING FEDERAL PROCEDURE RULES

ARE PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.

THE ABOVE RULES ARE CURRENT AS OF APRIL 1,

2019. PLEASE REFER TO THE APPLICABLE FEDERAL RULES

OF CIVIL PROCEDURE FOR UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION.

Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 84 of 85 PageID #:1276
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Case: 1:20-cv-03366 Document #: 49-1 Filed: 11/19/21 Page 85 of 85 PageID #:1277