Recollections of Dryden Histor

Beyond the S

edited 

Curtis Peeb

Monographs 

Aerospace Hist

Number 
Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data 

The spoken word II: recollections of Dryden history : beyond the sky I edited by Curtis Peebles. 

p.cm. 

"NASA SP-2011-4542." 

1. NASA Dryden Flight Research Center--History. 2. Astronautics--Research--California--Rogers Lake 

(Kern County)--History. 3. Oral history. 4. Aerospace engineers--United States--Interviews. 5. Astronauts-­

United States--Interviews. I. Peebles, Curtis. 

TL568.N23S66 2007 

629.1072 '4--dc22 

2007047436 

ii 
p

Neil A. Armstrong··············································································································

William P. Albrecht ............................................................................................................

Clyde Bailey and Ralph Sparks ..........................................................................................

Section II: A Man on the Moon ...............................................................................................

Hubert M. Drake ..................................................................................................................

Section III: The Lifting Bodies·······························································································

Walter W. Whiteside ............................................................................................................

Jerry Reedy ...........................................................................................................................

William H. Dana ...................................................................................................................

Section IV: Unexpected Futures······························································································

Melvin Burke ........................................................................................................................

Fred Haise .............................................................................................................................

Section V: Epilogue ..................................................................................................................

About the Author/ Acknowledgements ......................................................................................

NASA History Publications ......................................................................................................

iii 

edited by Curtis Peebles 

Editor's Foreword 


Since the founding of the Dryden Flight Research Center History Office in 1996, its staff has conducted 

about a hundred interviews with retired employees. These recollections represent a unique resource in unde

standing the development of aerospace technology in the second half of the twentieth century. Their person

experiences, insights, and opinions allow readers to gain an appreciation for what it was actually like to hav

been involved with some ofthe milestone events in aerospace history. A selection of interviews has been ed

ited and assembled into this monograph to enable a wider audience to share in this adventure. 

This collection ofinterviews is the second in a continuing series on the history ofthe Dryden Flight Research Center. The new volume covers the period between the establishment ofNASA in 1958 and the begin

ning of space shuttle flights in the early 1980s. This time frame encompasses the flights ofthe X-15, the U.S

Soviet race to the moon, the evolution ofthe lifting-body concept, and the initial shuttle flights. 

These events took place as jet propulsion and supersonic flight became everyday occurrences. They transpired amidst the ongoing Cold War and the social, cultural, and technological upheavals ofthe 1960s, and 

advances in aerospace technology, such as digital fly-by-wire, of the 1970s. They are told by the people who 

participated in these landmark activities, in their own words. 

Curtis Peebles 

September 201 0 

v 

The Approach 


Of The Future 


Aviation's future was already dimly visible when the first contingent ofNational Advisory Committee 

for Aeronautics (NACA) engineers arrived at Muroc Army Air Field in September of I946. They set up the 

Muroc Flight Test Unit in a wartime hangar at the field's South Base to support Army Air Forces flight tests 

of the X-1. By the spring of I947, the initial powered flights ofthe X-I were under way. The research plan, 

developed jointly by the Army Air Forces and the NACA, called for an incremental speed build-up until 

the aircraft exceeded Mach I. NACA personnel were responsible for the instrumentation on the two X-Is, 

reducing the data after the flight, and assisting the Army Air Forces with flight planning. Once the initial 

contractor and military test flights were completed, one of the X-Is would be transferred to the NACA so 

research flights could be undertaken. 

The work by the Army Air Forces and NACA personnel was part of a continuing pattern in aircraft 

development. Since the first flights of the Wright brothers, the quest had been to fly farther, higher, and faste

Initially, that meant an airplane was able to make a complete circle around a large field. A decade later, Worl

War I saw airplanes flying combat missions over the Western Front. By the I920s, both the U.S. and Europe

nations had regular airmail service, while the first passenger airlines also were being established. The daring 

ofCharles Lindbergh's transatlantic flight, in May of I927, captured the imagination of the world. By the en

of the I930s, international air travel was a reality. The world was suddenly smaller; a trip by airplane from th

U.S. to Asia or Africa now took only about a week as compared to nearly a month by ship. 

The vertical dimension offlight also was changing. Advances in engines and aerodynamics allowed aircraf

to reach altitudes too high for survival by unprotected humans. A pilot would have to, in effect, bring the 

ground along with him. This involved either a pressurized cockpit or a pressure suit to maintain an artificial 

environment. 

But it was the ever-faster aircraft speeds of the late I930s and mid-I940s that led to establishment of what 

would become the NASA Dryden Flight Research Center. High-powered piston engines combined with 

highly refined/low-drag airframes meant that, in dives, aircraft could reach velocities near the speed of sound

vii 
p, qgp

ground, but would instead be dropped from a B-29 in flight. The X-1 would use all of its fuel supply for the 

speed run or in a climb to high altitude. A rocket engine carries both its fuel and oxidizer so that, unlike a jet 

engine, it operates independently of the oxygen in the atmosphere. This meant that a rocket could operate at 

altitudes far too high for a jet engine, and even in space itself. 

Once the rocket engine exhausted its propellant, however, the X-1 would have to glide back to a landing. 

This eliminated the possibility of operating the aircraft from the NACA's Langley facility, where the risk of an 

unpowered landing by an experimental aircraft on a conventional runway was too great. The Muroc site had 

the advantage of the vast expanse of Rogers Dry Lake. This provided the perfect landing area, with runways 

marked on miles offlat, hard-packed surface. 

On October 14, 1947, the speed build-up culminated with Capt. Charles E. "Chuck" Yeager making the first 

supersonic flight. This accomplishment took place against a rapidly changing international and technological 

background. In July of 1947, the Cold War between the U.S. and the Soviet Union had formally begun. 

The world was now divided between East and West, in a struggle that would last more than four decades. 

With the threat of Soviet Communism looming, U.S. technological superiority, particularly in aviation, was 

an imperative. While the X-1 had shown that supersonic flight was possible, a vast number of unknowns 

remained to be discovered and understood. In the process, aviation technology underwent a revolution. Every 

aspect of aircraft design would change over the next two decades. The road traveled during these years was a 

difficult one, and many losses would be suffered along the way. 

The horizontal tail configuration was among the first changes to aircraft design. Since the early years of 

powered flight, horizontal tails had two parts, the fixed horizontal stabilizer and the movable elevator. As an 

aircraft neared Mach 1, a shock wave formed and moved backwards on the stabilizer. When the shock wave 

reached the hinge line of the elevator, the airflow over the elevator was disrupted and the control surface was 

rendered ineffective. A pilot in a dive was suddenly unable to raise the aircraft's nose to pull out, as he no 

longer had pitch control. 

On a flight at just under Mach 1, Yeager pulled back on the control wheel and nothing happened. The elevator was no longer effective. He shut off the rocket and slowed, regaining control once the shock wave had 

moved forward. Bell engineers had designed the X-1 's stabilizer to be movable on a pivot, rather than fixed, 

as a means of trim control. In discussions after landing, Yeager and the engineers realized this movable stabilizer also could be used for pitch control at speeds just below and above Mach 1. A two-part tail design was 

clumsy, however, and soon a single-piece, all-movable horizontal tail, called a "stabilator" or "stab," became 

standard on high-performance fighter aircraft. To avoid wing wake, this all-movable tail was placed on the 

vertical tail. 

A more visible change was in wing design. Both the X-1 and early jets, such as the F-80, F-84, and F-89, 

featured thin but long and straight wings reminiscent of piston engine aircraft. But as speeds climbed, so did 

the drag. The solution was to use new low-aspect-ratio wings, such as swept-back wings, triangular delta 

wings, and short, straight wings. (This refers to ratio between the wing's span and its chord. A sailplane's 

wings in contrast, have a high-aspect-ratio wing.) Use oflow-aspect-ratio wings delayed the onset of the 

increase in drag at high subsonic speeds. 

This solution, however, created new problems. Aircraft with low-aspect-ratio wings suffered from "pitch 

up." This occurred when an aircraft was maneuvering at a high angle of attack, such as during a landing 

approach or in a dogfight. Vortices from the wingtips and the fuselage created a downward force on the 

stabilator, causing the aircraft's nose to pitch up and the aircraft to lose speed. This loss of control could 

cause a stall/spin accident. Major efforts were undertaken to find a solution. The D-558-II #3 (NACA 145), 

viii 
theoretical phenomenon became apparent when several F -1 OOs crashed. 

Flying at high speeds, F-100 pilots rolled at a rate that exceeded the critical value for the speed, altitude

weight of the aircraft. As long as the roll rate was below the critical value, the aircraft remained stable. On

it was exceeded, inertial coupling occurred and the aircraft suddenly yawed sideways as it rolled, breaking 

up in flight as a result of excessive air loads. The cause was soon identified, and the solution was to enlarg

the F-lOO's vertical tail and wingtips. This improved high-speed aerodynamic stability at high roll rates, a

allowed the F-100 to be returned to service. 

Beyond these design changes, the rate of technological change also had accelerated. Production aircraft 

were reaching speeds as great or greater than those of earlier rocket-powered research aircraft. As one 

generation offighters was entering operational service, another was undergoing flight testing and a third w

in development. The pace of aircraft design and development directly reflected the pace of discovery at th

NACA High Speed Flight Station and Air Force flight test facilities. Unlike any previous era in aviation, e

new generation of military aircraft was quickly rendered obsolete by new developments and discoveries, 

leading to short service lives. 

As an example of this increase in performance, the prototype XP-86 exceeded Mach 1 in a shallow dive 

on April26, 1948, just seven months after Yeager's groundbreaking flight and not much more than a mont

after an NACApilot flew an X-1 beyond the supposed sound barrier. By the end of 1949, two entire Air F

fighter groups had been equipped with production F-86s. 

While much of the research work undertaken with rocket-powered aircraft in the late 1940s and early 19

focused on understanding the demands of high-speed flight, efforts also were being made to reach ever-hi

altitudes. By making a "zoom" climb, rocket planes could reach altitudes far above those of conventional 

aircraft. Air Force test pilot Major Frank "Pete" Everest began a series of high-altitude test flights in 1949 

with the X-1. After several aborted attempts, Everest reached an altitude of71,902 feet on August 8. His n

flight, on August 25, underscored the dangers of high altitude. As the X-1 climbed through about 69,000 f

cockpit pressurization was lost. Everest's partial pressure suit inflated, and he was able to make an emerge

landing. He was the first pilot to be saved by a suit in a depressurization incident. 

The D-558-II also was used for high-altitude flights. In the summer of 1951, the D-558-11 #2 underwent 

series of test flights after being modified for air launch from a P2B-l S, the Navy version of the B-29. Dou

Aircraft Company test pilot William B. Bridgeman undertook these high-speed/high-altitude flights. On Ju

23, 1951, Bridgeman reached a speed of Mach 1.85 at 62,000 feet. When he began the speed run, the aircr

began to oscillate violently in all three axes. Wing rolling reached ±80 degrees per second. Bridgeman wa

forced to shut down the rocket engine to bring the aircraft under control. For his next attempt, on August 7

Bridgeman did not move the controls as abruptly as he made the speed run. As a result, the instability was 

less severe and he reached a speed of Mach 1.88 at 68,600 feet. Bridgeman's final flight was made on Aug

15, reaching 77,800 feet. This surpassed Everest's flight two years before, and represented a new unofficia

altitude record. 

To mark the 50th anniversary of the Wright brothers' first powered flights, the D-558-11 #2 was again use

for a series of altitude flights, these piloted by Marine test pilot Lieutenant Colonel Marion Carl. The fligh

were to take place at the edge of the D-558-ll's performance envelope, but Carl's first two altitude attemp

ended in failure. Then, on August 21, 1953, Carl reached an altitude of83,235 feet, setting a new record. 

The Air Force was next to attempt setting altitude records during the spring and summer of 1954. The 

aircraft used was the X-1A, a second-generation version of the original X-1 configuration used to break 

Mach 1. While the D-558-11 could barely exceed Mach 2, the new X-1A could easily surpass it. This spee

capability meant that it also was capable of surpassing Carl's altitude record set the year before. The X-lA

IX 
y g g

gg 

the aileron and rudder. As the X-lA rolled back toward a wings-level position, Murray moved the ailerons 

to stop the motion. He also reduced the pressure on the rudder pedals, returning the rudder to its normal trim 

position. The rudder was slow to respond, apparently due to friction, which caused Murray to overcontrol. 

This triggered a roll rate of about 115 degrees per second. 

Murray shut down the engine, but the X-lA continued to climb as the aircraft rolled out of control. In 

attempts to stabilize the aircraft using the ailerons and rudder, he overcontrolled. The X-lA reached a peak 

altitude of 89,750 feet and began to descend. Murray was finally able to regain full control at about 65,000 

feet, at a speed of Mach 1.65. 

Despite the inertial coupling, the attempts to reach still-higher altitudes continued, as did the problems. 

Murray's next six attempts were aborted. Finally, on August 26, 1954, he was successful. The flight conditions 

were nearly identical to those of the June 4 flight (Mach 1.97 and an altitude of about 87,000 feet), during 

which Murray had experienced the inertial coupling. As he climbed, the X-lA was in fairly steady flight. 

When he shut down the engine, however, the aircraft abruptly yawed and rolled. Murray rapidly countered 

the motion, preventing a loss of control. He reached a peak altitude of 90,440 feet on the flight, besting his 

previous altitude records. 

The pilots who ventured to these high altitudes saw aviation's future most clearly. Below their aircraft, the 

mountains and valleys spread out like a map, brilliantly illuminated by the unfiltered rays of the sun. The 

horizon gave a hint of being curved, indicating that Earth was a sphere. Looking away from Earth, they saw 

the color of the sky changed gradually from the white haze on the horizon to a pale blue and to deeper shades 

of blue, merging to become the blue-black dome ofthe sky overhead. It was the color of space. 

The pilots and engineers who worked on the early experimental aircraft had grown up with comic strip 

space heroes like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, while their children followed the television adventures of 

Tom Corbett: Space Cadet. Flight beyond the sky seemed to be at once inaccessible yet within their grasp. 

The Bell X-2 would have a top speed of Mach 3 and a potential maximum altitude above 125,000 feet. It was 

easy to imagine that a series of experimental aircraft could be built, with each new design capable of reaching 

faster speeds and greater altitudes, until an aircraft finally went into orbit around the Earth. 

Attempts to tum this concept into reality met with a host oftechnical problems and physiological and 

psychological unknowns, as well as daunting political opposition. Doubling the performance capabilities of 

the X-2 would produce an aircraft capable of reaching the edge of space. Doing so, however, would require 

a much larger aircraft built of new, heat-resistant materials, with a larger, more powerful rocket engine. The 

inertial coupling problems that plagued the early attempts at both high speeds and high altitudes would have 

to be prevented. The high-altitude flights of the D-558-11 and X-lA took place within Earth's atmosphere, 

where standard aerodynamic control surfaces such as the rudder and ailerons still were viable. As aircraft 

went higher, however, aerodynamic pressure would diminish until the aircraft would be traveling in a near 

vacuum. A separate set of non-aerodynamic controls, such as small thruster rockets, would be needed to 

maintain stability. 

The aircraft would also have to re-enter Earth's atmosphere, where its high speed within the thickening 

atmosphere would cause it to heat dramatically. In addition, dynamic pressure on the vehicle would increase 

rapidly from zero to as much as one ton per square foot during return. Any errors in the trajectory, or control 

problems such as those experienced with the X-lA, would lead to the vehicle's destruction. These were the 

engineering problems complicating development of a Mach 6 aircraft capable ofreaching the fringes of space. 

Entering orbit would require speeds of Mach 25, which meant far greater heat protection would be needed. 

Beyond the engineering issues, there were the looming unknowns of the human response to spaceflight. 

X 
development efforts on "pilotless missiles" such as the Regulus, Mace, Matador, and Snark, jet-powered 

aircraft that flew to their targets under automated control. 

Compounding this, very few civilian scientists and engineers in the late 1940s and early 1950s were dir

involved in space research with high-altitude sounding rockets or instrument-carrying balloons. There wer

a few studies made of satellite use for scientific research, military reconnaissance, weather observations, o

communications, but none of these potential applications garnered sufficient political support or funding to 

forward. The cost of traveling in space would be high, and the need was not seen as pressing. Spaceflight w

at best, a distant possibility, decades from becoming reality. Most scientists dismissed it as science fiction. 

Against this background of beckoning possibilities and towering obstacles, a few individuals at the NAC

and within the military services decided that the time was right for a new research aircraft. Goals for the 

new aircraft were ambitious-its maximum speed and altitude would be more than twice that of the X-2. 

The vehicle would be designed to fly Mach 6 and reach altitudes where it would experience zero dynamic 

pressure. 

To understand just how ambitious this effort was, it must be remembered that, when the program was be

discussed, the highest speed yet attained in piloted flight was Mach 2. The first flights of the Wright brothe

were barely more than a half century in the past. 

The new research aircraft was to be called the X-15, and it would be the first manned spacecraft ever 

designed. 

XI 

other makeshift facilities at South Base. In the summer of 1954, as the X -15 

program was gaining momentum, NACA personnel moved into a new facility near th

Edwards Main Base. With the move came status as an independent facility and a new 

name, the "High-Speed Flight Station." The new organization continued to undertake 

high-speed and high-altitude flight, but also was now deeply involved in the full rang

of activity in aeronautics at mid-century. This included research in pitch-up and inert

coupling, evaluating new aircraft and providing technical support and advice to the 

military. 
tional Geophysical Year in 1957-58. The Air Force also was developing the WS-117L 

reconnaissance satellite program. High-altitude balloon flights were being made by 

both the Air Force and the Navy to determine the effects of cosmic rays and near-space 

conditions on both animals and humans. Dr. Hugh L. Dryden, the NACA director, 

quietly began to shift more effort and funding toward space research. At Langley, for 

example, a Satellite Vehicle Group was established to investigate structural design, 

trajectories, and guidance, while the Pilotless Aircraft Research Division began rocket 

studies. Without a national commitment to undertake space research, however, such 

activities remained poorly funded and were regularly on the verge of cancellation. 

I Volume 2, Issue 34 NACA HSFS - Edwards California August 8 1958 

PRESIDENT 	SIGNS BILL CREATING NATIONAL 

AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION 

On July 29, President Eisenhower signed into law HR-l2575, thus creating the nation's 

first civil space agency--the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. In signing the 

legislation, which was passed earlier in J•uy without a dissenting vote in either house of 

Congress, the Chief Executive stated ••• "Enactment of this legislation is an historic step, further equipping the United States 

for leadership in the space age. I wish to commend the Congress for the promptness with 

which it has created the organization and provided the authority needed for an effective 

national effort in the fields of aeronautias and space exploration. 

" ••• The present National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) with its large and 

competent staff and well-equipped laboratories, will provide the nucleus for the NASA. The 

NACA has an established record of research performance and of cooperation with the armed 

services. The combination of space exploration responsibilities with the NACA's traditional 

aeronautical research functions is a natural evolution. 

"The enactment of the law establishing the NACA in 1915 proved a decisive step in the 

advancement of our civil and military aviation. The Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 should 

have an even greater impact on our :future.", 

At the same time, both the U.S. and Soviet Union had begun an intensive effort to 

develop intercontinental ballistic missiles. U.S. officials had not been willing to approve work on ICBMs until the development of lightweight/high-yield thermonuclear 

weapons in the mid-1950s. Size, weight, and accuracy requirements were reduced for 

such missiles, making development ofiCBMs technically and economically feasible. The U.S. missile program involved development of the Atlas and Titan ICBMs, 

which could strike targets in the Soviet Union from launch points in the U.S., along 

with shorter-range Thor and Jupiter missiles based in England, Italy, and Turkey. The 

Soviets built the R-7 ICBM as their long range missile. Because development of the 

R-7 began earlier than that of the U.S. missiles, at a time when the estimated size and 

weight of nuclear weapons were still very large, the R-7's payload was far greater that 

that of the later U.S. ICBMs. 

These missiles were designed to deliver nuclear warheads to targets inside enemy 

territory, but could also provide the means to reach space. On October 4, 1957, an R-7 

rocket lifted off its launch pad in Soviet Central Asia. At 5:58p.m. EDT, an announcement by the Soviet news agency TASS reported that the first satellite had been success2 
Volume 2, Issue 25 NACA HSFS, Edwards, California April 4, 1958 

PRESIIENT PROPOSES NACA AS NATIONAL SPACE AGENCY 

WASHINGTON, D.C., April 2--President Eisenhower at noon today sent a message to Congress 

outlining his plans for future conduct of the Nation's space technology program. The President's message included a draft proposal for the legislation necessary to accomplish the 

Administration's plan. 

The proposed legislation calls for establishment of a new, independent civilian agency 

to be known as the National Aeronautics and Space Agency. If enacted into law by Congress, 

the staff and facilities of the NACA will become the nucleus of the NASA. The responsibilities 

of the NASA will include, but be larger than, those currently administered by the NACA, and in 

addition to research, will involve both development and operation of space vehicles. The NASA 

will also work closely with the military services and other agencies, public and private. 

Time will be required, of course, for Congress to give attention to the President's civilian space program proposals. In this period, the NACA will continue to do its important work 

on the problems of flight, as well and as rapidly as possible. We shall also be planning for 

the new responsibilities we may be given in the future. In the days ahead we will have much to 

do that is important and challenging. 

(The above message was received this week from Dr. Hugh L. Dryden, NACA Director, 

for dissemination to HSFS employees.) 

HSFS PERSONNEL TO MA.KE OFFICIAL FLIGHT TO FRANCE 

Three members of the HSFS staff will embark on Monday from Andrews AFB, near Washington, 

D.C., for France, where they will furnish technical assistance in flight research on the 

Trident airplane. 

Chief of the Station Walter C. Williams, pilot Joseph A. Walker, and research engineer 

Thomas W. Finch will make the trip to Paris and other points in France. They will be accempanied on the two-to-three week mission by Capt. Iven C. Kincheloe, USAF, and AFFTC engineer 

John Louis Wesesky. 

EXTEND CCMPLETION DA'ffi FOR UNI'ffiD FUND COLLECTIONS 

The Board of Directors of the HSFS United Fund has voted to extend the collection period of 

this year's Fund Drive from March 31 to April 30. This change has been made to allow contributors more time to finish payment of their pledges. 

An overall balance of $1,159 remains to be collected. To date, a total of $2,262 has been 

collected for 27 agencies in localities designated by the individual contributors. 

The Board urges those who have not completed payment of United Fund pledges to make every 

effort to pay-up during this final month. A statement of individual pledge balance will be 

prepared by Elinore Berger (Dispensary) for any employee requesting it. 

CREDIT UNION IN'IEREST RATE TO BE REDUCED 

The Board of Directors of the HSFS Federal Credit Union pas voted to reduce the interest 

on loans made to Cr~dit Union members. The revised rate of interest will be determined as 

as a new rate schedule can be obtained from the California Credit Union League. 

HSFS employees are urged to obtain loans through their credit union to finance current 

expenses such as income or real estate taxes, vacations, the purchase of a new automobile or 

appliances. 

3 
students math and science. A parallel result, however, was that space activities suddenly enjoyed a level ofpolitical support that would have been unthinkable prior to 

the Soviet launch. On October 1, 1958, the NACA ceased to exist, and the National 

Aeronautics and Space Administration took its place. The public unveiling ofthe first 

X -15 came two weeks later, on October 15. The Air Force already was considering a 

follow-on vehicle, the X-20 Dyna-Soar (for "Dynamic Soaring"), which would make 

higher-speed, boost-glide suborbital flights using a missile as launch vehicle. Ultimately, it was thought, the X-20 could be put into orbit. 

Two films will be offered to HSFS•ers 

:f9r lunch-time viewing on Tuesday, February 

5· 

Beginning with the words from the .Book t lost time accident~ Since our las294 days of' Genesis, " ••. and God said, Let there be 

light.,," the 10-minute color film, "The 443,456 man b.ours (est~te) Story o:f Light't, traces the history of artimjuri~s ficial light sources f.rom the._time of the in 1956 

Number disabling injuries in 195'7 caveman to the present, Stop-motion photogNUlllber disabling raphy, featuring tiny, doll-like figure.s, 

is utilized. in the movie, 1 at in 1.956 Using the city of Syracuse, New York as Number days o t in 1957 

Number days los an example, "And .a Voice Shall Be Heard" 

period up to shows how a well-trained, ,well-equipped (Figures are for 4 195'7•) CivilDefense organization can spring into eluding January 2 ' action when an atom bomb strikes a city. 

Donate today to Hungarian Relief. FOR SALE - 1956 Del Rey 2-door Chevrolet T~e your contribution to Dorothy with Powerg1ide. $1,350. Call ext. 40471, 

Kenneth Berger. Fleming, personnel office, room 112.

*** *** 

***NASA ACCEPTS McDONNELL FROPOSAL FOR MANNED SPACE CAPSULE***The NASA 

has selected McDonnell Aircraft Corporation as the source for the design, 

development, and construction of a space capsule capable of carrying man 

into orbital flight around the earth. Twelve companies submitted proposals in the competition. Dr. T. Keith Glennan, NASA Administrator, 

said McDonnell's ·proposal was ···selected after a careful assessment of the 

technical value of the proposals, and of the facilities, experience, and 

other qualifications of the various companies. Total cost of the 

satellite capsule and its subsystems is expected to exceed $15 million. 

The space capsule, serving as the payload of a powerful booster, will be 

designed to carry a h~an passenger through the atmosphere, into orbital 

flight, and safely back to earth again. The satellite system will provide a means of studying the psychological and physiological effects of 

space flight on man ..The development program of the capsule system, and 

its subsequent launching and orbital flight are called Project Mercury. 

The ect is cted to continue for several 

4 
spaceflight conditions as weightlessness. 

. 1. By virtue of the authorit v . nautics and Space Act of 1958 (Public ested m me by the National Aero72 Stat. 426, 433) I hereby proclai J:~w 85-568, approved July 29 1958 

September 30, 1958, the National m a a~ of the close of business' ' 

has been organized and is Aeronautics and Space Administrat· the prepared to discharg th 10n 

powers conferred upon it by said law. e e duties and exercise 

2. In accordance with th .. 

powers' duties' and Obligations e ~~o~~SlOns of the Act, all functions 

personnel {other than members ~f real_ and personal property, ' 

of the National Advisory Committ the Committee), funds, and records 

ferred to the National Aeronautic:~~rSAeronauti?~ are herel;Jy transpace Administration. 

. 3. The existing National Adviso . Committees on Aircraft Mi "l ry Commlttee for Aeronautics 

craft, Missile and Spac~craf~s;;:o and ~p~ce~raft AerodYflamics; Aircraft ~onstruction; Aircraft Ope ~~S1on, Aircraft, Missile and SpaceCobmmitt~e; and the Special Com~~t~~ Prosblems; the Industry Consulting su committees are hereb reco . on pace Technology and their 

!~inistration through ~cemb::~~ute1~~gvisory committees to the 

eir current work to an orderly com~letio~. for the purpose of bringing 

. ~- Existing policies, regulations ... mstruchons governing the acti "ti , au~onties, and procedural 

~r Ae::o~~utics, not inconsiste~t !~~fl!_he Natwna~ Advisory Committee 

sh~cbtiVlties_ of the National Aeronauticsw~~d which ar: ~pplicable to e contmued in effect until pace Admimstration 

superseded or revoked. ' 

5. The Langley Aeronauti 1 

Laboratory, and the Lewis Flight~ oL~b~ratory, the Ames Aeronautical 

~~~d 0e Langley Research Cente/ ~e slon Laboratory are hereby re­

- ewis Research Center, respectively. mes Research Center, and 

DONE at the City of Washi . . day of September in the N" ngton, Distnct of Columbia this 25th 

year meteen Hundred and Fifty-~ight.~ 

T. Kei 1fd~an A:~=:~ 

A plea for cooperation in lessening the loss of Coca Cola bottles has been received 

from the E.AFB Exchange. Unless the nu:aiber of bottLes lost is reduced considerably, the 

Exchange will be forced to discontinue Coca Cola vending service to the facilities where 

losses are greatest. From October lO to December ·3, l95601 it is reported, the E:l!::change 

lost 14,060 wCokew bottles throughout the Base at a cost of $281.20. HSFS• share of this 

loss was 694 bottles or $14. 

5 

Neil A. Armstrong 

Interviewed by Dr. Stephen E. Ambrose and 

Dr. Douglas Brinkley, September 19, 2001 


Neil A. Armstrong grew up amid the golden age offlight in the 1930s, when woo

and canvas biplanes gave way to all-metal monoplanes, top speeds greatly increased

and the idea of a "sound barrier" first started to take root. His high school years, spa

ning the end ofWorld War II and the initial post-war period, saw the introduction o

first generation ofjet aircraft and the first supersonic flight. As a Navy pilot during t

Korean War, Armstrong personally experienced the difficulties that service branch h

in adapting to the jet age. F9F Panther jets were being flown from straight-deck airc

carriers originally built for propeller airplanes. The Navy's jets also were lacking in 

performance when compared to the Soviet-built MiG-15s opposing United Nations 

forces in Korea. 

Armstrong represented a new generation of test and research pilots that came to 

prominence in the jet age. Earlier test pilots were skilled "stick and rudder" men rath

than engineers. Few had degrees, and no formal test pilot training programs existed 

until World War II. Indeed, in the 1930s, some military pilots had been assigned to t

pilot duties right out offlight school. During World War II, service pilots tested new 

aircraft between combat tours. Such on-the-job training was not suitable for the new 

demands ofjet aircraft and supersonic flight. In addition to individual skill and cour7 
[p] p

sions. Gemini 8 was an Earth-orbital mission that accomplished the first docking of two 

spacecraft, while on Apollo 11 he became the first man to walk on the moon. 

BRINKLEY: I wanted to start with a little bit about growing up in Ohio. Ohio is an 

aviation state. I read somewhere that when you were very young, your father took you 

to the National Air Races in Cleveland. You were so young; do you have any recollection? 

ARMSTRONG: I was two the first time I went to the Air Races. Of course I have no 

recollection of that now. 

BRINKLEY: Did your father have an interest in flight? Is that why he would take you 


there, or was it just in the air at that time-it was so exciting? 


ARMSTRONG: I don't think he had a particular interest in flight, but just an opportunity to take children to new experiences, I guess. 

BRINKLEY: You got to ride in your first plane when you were age six, in one of the 


Ford Tri-Motors. Do you have recollections of that? 


ARMSTRONG: I do not. 

AMBROSE: When did you first hear of [Charles A.] Lindbergh? 

ARMSTRONG: I can't remember when the first time was, but I'm sure it was when I 

was a schoolboy, in elementary school. 

BRINKLEY: Did you later have an opportunity to meet Lindbergh? Was he somebody 

that had been in your mind when you were becoming a pilot, thinking about Lindbergh? Did he mean a great deal to you as an American icon? 

ARMSTRONG: I did have the opportunity to meet him on several occasions. Had 

enormous admiration for him as a pilot. I'd read some of his books. I was aware of the 

controversial position he took on certain issues. But I was very pleased to have had the 

chance to meet him, and I think his wife [Anne Morrow Lindbergh] was a wonderful 

person and quite an [eloquent] writer. 

BRINKLEY: Did you ever correspond with him at the time of the Apollo? Was there 

any kind of wishing you well before the Apollo 11 mission, wishing you luck sort ofARMSTRONG: I can't recall that. I think I have some letters from him in my file, 

though. 

8 
hope was to be an aircraft designer. I later went into piloting because I thought a g

designer ought to know the operational aspects of an airplane. 

AMBROSE: Were you good in mathematics? 

ARMSTRONG: Everything's relative. I was good in my small classes. However, 

since met many people who have far better mastery of mathematics than I will ev

have. 

AMBROSE: Did you have physics in high school? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes, I did. 

AMBROSE: Do you remember your teacher? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes, it was John Crites. I remember him very well, because he w

sort of an unconventional teacher. He allowed a few students in each of his classe

do special projects, and so we didn't go to class very much. We were always off w

ing on our projects. 
bejrQnd WELpatotltl~l~l...,·~"''l''""."'"~ ...,,.....,., ,.,~1it~ 

th6se different towns? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes. I went to ...half a dozen schools. 

BRINKLEY: Were you able to develop friendships when you were going to that many different schools ... 

ARMSTRONG: I'm certain I had friendships in every one ofthe schools I was in, but I don't remember those 

friends prior to, probably, the junior high school age. I still have friends that I see and remember from that 

time period and subsequent. 

AMBROSE: Beyond your physics class and the projects, were you an avid reader? Were you reading engineering and aerodynamics or history or what? 

ARMSTRONG: I was an avid reader, yes, and I read all kinds of things. I spent a lot of time in the library and 

took a lot ofbooks out of the library, both fiction and nonfiction. However, when I was building things, like 

models and so on, they were predominantly focused on aviation-related stuff. 

AMBROSE: Do you remember any specific book you read about aviation [that gave you] that "Wow!" kind 

ofresponse? 

ARMSTRONG: I recall that I read a lot of the aviation magazines of the time, Flight and Air Trails and 

Model Airplane News, and anything I could get my hands on. 

BRINKLEY: What about like Robert [H.] Goddard, science fiction, things about space? Did you ever read any 

of the science fiction writers of that time? 

10 
AMBROSE: The assumption among young men at that time was, 'As soon as I gr

ate or as soon as I get to be eighteen, I'm going into the service.' But then the war 

ended when you were fifteen. So you completed high school without any 'I'm goi

enlist' kind of feeling. 

ARMSTRONG: That's correct. We had a few people in my school who had either 

about their age or were a little older than the class, who had gone into the service a

came back and finished high school after the war was over. We had several of thos

fellows in our school, but the youngest of those would probably be two years older 

I was. 

AMBROSE: You got a Navy scholarship to Purdue [University, West Lafayette, 


Indiana] immediately after graduating high school, I gather. 


ARMSTRONG: I believe that the tests for what was called the Hollaway Plan, the 

Naval Aviation College [Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps, NROTC] Program

were administered nationwide while I was still in high school, probably shortly bef

graduation, although I cannot remember the precise date. It was early enough so th

we could pick a school. Ifwe were accepted into this program, we could pick any a

credited school in the nation to attend. 

AMBROSE: [Was the test] mainly mathematics, or mathematics and physics? 

ARMSTRONG: I'm sure they had a focus on things that would be appropriate to av

tion, because it was an aviation-directed program, but I can't remember the details 

the test, except that I recall it was quite long. 


AMBROSE: What do you mean by long? All day? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes, it was an all-day test. 

AMBROSE: So you came out well, obviously, and the Navy offered you the "Holly

Plan-it was like Naval ROTC [in] that you would get tuition and a stipend of twenty

five bucks a month or something like that, I suppose. 

ARMSTRONG: Fortunately, it was a little more than that. They would pay tuition f

and books, plus a stipend for board and room. 

AMBROSE: So when you were accepted in this program, you were signing up, in e

fect, accepting a call from the Navy. 

ARMSTRONG: A seven-year program, yes. Two years of [university study], then go 

to the Navy, go through flight training, get a commission, and then serve in the regular Navy for a total then of three years of active duty, after which the plan would be 

11 
Armstrong (Pilots), on Sunday, June  


6 ouncesj ·· - · k 


Milton Barron; son of Mr. and Mrs. Jac 


McKay (Pilots), born Saturday, July 6, 
 Be kind to your wife .•eat breakfast at 

5 pounds1 7 ounces; F nk the HSFS cafeteria 

Steven Craig, born to Mr. and Mrs: r)a 2 eggs, any style ••.•••••.•• 45 Fedor (Shirley, formerly in Purchaslng ' 

Ha.mJ or bacon, and eggs ; •...75 Sunday, July 7, 7 pounds 14 ounces. 


Lunch 


Assorted salads •..•101 15, 25 


Sandwiches 


Egg salad, 	bologna,:liverwurst ••• 30 

Tuna.· Ham or ~eef ...••.•..•.40 .. 35 

with cheese ••.•••-••••45 

Coffee .•.. 5 	 l/3 qt. milk ••.•15 Butter~lk .•••.•lO 

to return to university and finish the last two years. The intent of

-·

this program, named 

after Admiral [James L.] Holloway [Jr.], who, if memory serves, was [astronaut Walter 

M.] Wally Schirra's father-in-law-and the intent was to build up the naval air reserve 

strength, which they felt was going downhill because people after the war really didn't 

want to do that stuff anymore. That was my understanding at the time. 

AMBROSE: So you were called up for flight training after what, one year at Purdue, or 

two years? 

ARMSTRONG: A year and a half. It was supposed to be two years, but I suppose they 

saw [the] Korea[n War] coming or something, and they needed to ratchet the volume 

up a little bit, so they called us in early. 

AMBROSE: So now you're in uniform, but not yet commissioned, being trained as a 

pilot, is that correct? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes, I was in naval flight school. 

AMBROSE: Tell me about training. How did the Navy go about training you? 

ARMSTRONG: Well, they found that the way I had learned to fly before wasn't nearly 


what they expected. 


BRINKLEY: Just to backtrack for one second, you got your pilot's license at age six­


teen in Ohio. Could you have gotten it any earlier? Is that almost like getting an auto 


license back when you're 14, 15? 


ARMSTRONG: I believe you could get it in a glider at age 14, but in a powered air­


craft you had to wait till you reached your 16th birthday, and then the license you got 


was called a student pilot's license, which allowed you to fly solo but not take passengers with you. 

12 
ARMSTRONG: It was in Wapakoneta, at a grass field there. 


AMBROSE: Who was your first instructor? 


ARMSTRONG: Oh, let's see. I had three. The first one's name escapes me at the 


minute [Frank Lucie]. The second one was named Aubrey Knudegard. The third w

Chuck Finkenbine. 


BRINKLEY: They lived in that area, in Wapakoneta area? 


ARMSTRONG: I don't know where they lived, but I'm sure they didn't live far aw

BRINKLEY: Was this unusual for a young man your age? Were a lot of contempor

ofyours wanting to get [a] pilot's license? 

ARMSTRONG: I was in a class of maybe about 70 students, about half boys. We h

three in my class that learned to fly at the same time I did. So I don't know how unu

that is, three out of 3 5-1 0 percent. Not very unusual. 

BRINKLEY: Before we get back to the Navy, can I ask one Ohio question? I'm cur

because ofliving in Ohio. Do you remember the towns that you lived in? Research 

you lived in a lot of different towns, but [the interviews] never say the names of them

ARMSTRONG: I moved a lot before I entered school, and when I entered school, th

rate of change of towns slowed down somewhat, but still about every couple ofyear

seemed like we were moving. 

BRINKLEY: What were the names of some of the other towns besides-


ARMSTRONG: First school was in Warren, Ohio; and then Jefferson, Ohio; Moulto

Ohio; then St. Mary's, Ohio; [Upper Sandusky, Ohio]; then Wapakoneta, Ohio. 


BRINKLEY: I never knew those other towns. Thank you. 


AMBROSE: When you began with the Navy ...you had been up in a single-engine 


plane for some soloing, but now you're with the United States Navy. How did they 
 train you? 


ARMSTRONG: Training was divided into three parts. The first was a [four]-month 


nonflying ground school and physical training regimen. The second part was called 


basic training, which was all flight students went through the exact same protocol, did 

the exact same kinds of things-learning to fly, getting some experience soloing, learn

ing to do cross-country flight, navigation, that sort of thing, learning to fly instrument

13 
g

y , gy gy p, 

or what? 

ARMSTRONG: We had learned in the earlier part ...the ground school part, how to 

navigate and use celestial navigation .... Celestial navigation was used by multi-engine 

pilots predominantly, while single-engine fighters and attack aircraft required the full 

attention of the sole occupant on the flying, and so he couldn't be taking sextant shots 

and things like that. So the navigation was somewhat more rudimentary, but it required 

dead reckoning and use of radio aids and whatever might be available at sea .... 

AMBROSE: How do you dead-reckon at sea? 

ARMSTRONG: By computing your true speed over the ground, by using your air 

speed, altitude, and outside temperature, and noting the direction of the wind however 

you could by wave action or cloud shadow movements .... 

At least you'd hopefully be in the right direction, probably weren't always. And then 

the pilots had to be able to return to their carrier, so there were certain kinds of electronic aids that were peculiar to a carrier you wouldn't find anywhere else, wouldn't 

find in land-based navigation. So it was a matter of learning those and, of course, learning to use the aircraft as a weapon defensively and offensively, and learn tactics, and 

then finally qualify again on a carrier in advanced aircraft. ... Other students went into 

multi-engine flight in either patrol bombers or transports or some variety of other craft. 

Everyone went their separate ways. 

AMBROSE: In the Army Air Forces in 1942, '43, '44, only the very best got to be 

fighter pilots. Ifyou weren't quite up to that standard, then they put you in a two-engine or a four-engine [aircraft]. Was that also true in the Navy? 

ARMSTRONG: The fighter pilots always said that was true. 

AMBROSE: I'm not asking you to brag on yourself. 

ARMSTRONG: But I don't know what the commanding officer of the training command would say about that. I was not privy to what process they used in deciding. My 

own guess is that a large part of it had to do with what needs they had at the time you 

graduated, because in my particular class, most of my classmates happened to get what 

they asked for, while I can recall people from a different generation saying nobody got 

what they asked for. So I can't really know. 

AMBROSE: I've read that you told your mother you didn't want to be responsible for 

others; that's why you wanted a single-engine fighter. Is that story accurate? 

ARMSTRONG: I don't know that I ever told her that. You know, I might have said 

something like that, but I don't remember saying that. 

14 
BRINKLEY: Landing on carriers at night, that was extraordinarily difficult to learn

Was there one aspect of this period that was a hard thing for you to conquer? 

ARMSTRONG: I happened to be a day fighter pilot. We had night fighter pilots on 

ship I was on, and I thought they were crazy. 

BRINKLEY: Did you ever have to do a night landing? 

ARMSTRONG: I did it only in practice. I never did it on a carrier. All my landings 

carrier were in day. I was always happy about that. 

AMBROSE: So, August of'50, the Korean War is now a couple of months old. 

ARMSTRONG: Yes, just started. 

AMBROSE: And you're completing your basic. Did they send you right off? 

ARMSTRONG: I asked for the Pacific Fleet and was given the Pacific Fleet. But as 

I say, I was first sent out to a squadron called FASRON, Fleet Air Service Squadron

which is a utility squadron, handled all kinds of miscellaneous jobs that needed to b

done around a large naval air station. That sort of was a holding position. They wou

typically take new entrants that come to that base and stick them there for a time pe

until there was a squadron opening for assignment, so I was in that squadron for pro

ably three or four months, until there was an opening for me in Fighter Squadron 51 

[VF-51]. 

AMBROSE: That would have been at the end of 1950. 

ARMSTRONG: That was the end of '50. November or December, as I remember. 

AMBROSE: And then off to the fleet? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes. We immediately prepared to be assigned to the Korean action...Again, you sort of do the same sorts of things as you did in training. Now 

you're in a new aircraft, but you have a much more specific objective because yo

sort of know what kind of an environment you're going into. We didn't know to 

what extent we would be offensive, in the sense that we would be dropping bom

or shooting guns, or to what extent we might be defending the fleet against Chin

or Russian incoming aircraft, to what extent it might be air-to-air or air-to-groun

So we had to prepare for sort of all of those, plus become carrier-qualified in jet 

aircraft and doing a lot of practice with weapons delivery, instrument flying, and 

on, the things that we would be facing when we got in operation. I was very you

very green. 

15 
ARMSTRONG: Bombs, bullets, and rockets sometimes, depending on what target it 

was. We had a combination of two jet fighter squadrons, [an] F4U Corsair squadron, 

and an AD [Skyraider] squadron. [They] could carry the 2,000-pounders and really do 

some damage. 

BRINKLEY: Seven [airplanes] in a squadron? 

ARMSTRONG: I can't speak specifically to the numbers in each squadron. In our 

squadron we had 24 pilots and 16 aircraft. 

AMBROSE: Sixteen. But only 24 pilots. 

ARMSTRONG: Yes. Started with 24. 

AMBROSE: Started with, yeah. The Army liked to have two pilots for every airplane. 

Tell us about your first mission. 

ARMSTRONG: I can't recall it. 

AMBROSE: [I]n flying combat air patrol, did [the Soviets] ever come in and try to attack the fleet at night? 

ARMSTRONG: No. I would not have enjoyed trying to go-well, I probably would 

have enjoyed it, but I don't know that I would have won against a MiG in an old Panther. It was a pretty primitive airplane. Of course, the MiG was pretty primitive too, but 

had a little better performance. 

BRINKLEY: How did the F9F Panther perform? 

ARMSTRONG: It was a very solid airplane. We thought it was wonderful. In retrospect, it was an airplane of the time and it didn't fly [particularly] well .... But we didn't 

know that at the time ... 

BRINKLEY: What were the weak points? 

ARMSTRONG: It didn't have particularly good handling qualities. Pretty good lateral 

directional controls, but very stiff in pitch. Its performance both in absolute altitude, 

max speed, and climb rate were inferior to the MiG by [a] substantial amount. 

BRINKLEY: There's a story about September 3, 1951, when you had to eject from a 

Panther after receiving antiaircraft fire. Was that one of the moments of the Korean War 

where you really feel your life is being put on the line? 

16 
MARRIED on Saturday, March 14, were Harold Wallick (Instrumentation) 

and Sandra Bowman of Biloxi, Mississippi. The ceremony took place in the 

Keesler Air Force Base Chapel in Biloxi. The couple.plan to reside in 

North Edwards ...•...BY taking second place recently in the Junior AAU 

Championshipsat North Hollywood High School, Russell Mills, son of 

Russell Mills (Instrument Service) became the first Antelope Valley 

athlete to win a silver medal in Junior AAU competition. This is the 

highest AAU award ever won by a local student. Russell, a junior at 

AVJUHS, is now eligible to enter the Metropolitan Gymnastic meet. If he 

qualifies in this event and in the Senior.AAU meet, he will be eligible 

to compete in the National championships ..•....MARRIED in Phoenix, 

Arizona on March 10 were Dick Simmons(Personnel) and Edna Ann Wood. The 

couple are living in Lancaster •...••.MAKING speeches recently were pilots 

Neil Armstrong and Jack McKay. Neil participated last week on a panel 

of test pilots at an ASME meeting in Los Angeles, and Jack spoke this 

week at the Air Force Academic Instructors Workshop, Moore Air Base, 

Mission, Texas .••••••BORN on Wednesday, March 11 to Mr. and Mrs. Douglass 

Pratt (Dee Ella, Library) was a 6 pound, 4 ounce daughter, Yvette .•.• : •. 

A SURPRISE farwell luncheon was held Tuesday in the EAFB Civilian Club 

for Joyce Hall who terminates her NASA employment today. A baby 

stroller was presented to the honoree, accompanied by the following 

poem authored by Della Mae Bowling: "since a love of hotrods in your 

family runs, this is for your daughter (or your son). It has 4-wheel 

brakes and a real rag top, and a place for groceries when you shop. 

It takes no gas or license fee, just lots of push and energy. No whitewall tires, not much chrome, there should be one in every home. Our 

love comes with this gift to you, to Tommy and the baby too. And as 

you go along your way, don't forget N A S A" •. ,Attending the luncheon 

were Mabel Marriott, Jessie Hagood, Elinore Berger, Bea Corrington, Vicky_ 

Ikeler, Helen Errard, and Della-Mae Bowling ..•..•.NEW FACES- Mildred L. 

Smith, a retlirnee clerk typist in Instrumentation from Lancaster; James 

~Kay, transfer from Langley, an aeronautical research engineer-ru-­

Aero-Structures, now living in Lancaster; and Barbara J. Skinner,· a clerk 

typist in Editorial, of Lancaster •...•.•ANNOUNCED here this week was the 

birth of a daughter, Sharilyn, to Mr. and Mrs. Herman Rediess. Weight: 

7 pounds, 6 ounces. Date: March 6. Herro, who was employed at HSFS 

under the Coop Student Program, is now attending U. C. at Berkeley••.... 

FOR SALE OR TRADE - Maple kitchen table - formica top. Clinton 

Johnson, Ext. 21071. ..••..RECENT visitors to HSFS include Mr. Kazuto 

Yoshida, Washington correspondent for the Tokyo Broadcasting Company; 

"Guadalcanal Diary" author, Richard. Tregaskis, wb.o is CUJ;'rentl~working.... 

on an X-15 story; and 384 freshman cadets of the Class of 1962, USAF 

Academy, accompanied by Academy faculty members and administrative 

personnel. 
speed, because onceAMBROSE: You must have been almost right on the deck. 

ARMSTRONG: Well, these are strung between mountains, so I was up maybe 500 feet 

or something, not an unusual altitude for the kind of things we were doing. I don't remember exactly what the altitude was, but they didn't put those big balls on the cables 

so that you could see they were there, in those days. 

BRINKLEY: What happened after that moment? 

ARMSTRONG: I was flying on the wing ofJohn Carpenter. He was an Air Force major, on an exchange program with us. We talked it over and decided not to try to land 

it, because if I got a little bit too slow and started to snap, I would have no [ability] to 

control it after that, so consequently decided it would be better to jump out. So, took 

it down south into friendly territory and jumped out in the vicinity of Pohang Airport, 

K-3, which was operated by U.S. Marines. 

AMBROSE: Had you had any 

MACH parachute training? TWAIN CLUB TO SPONSOR TOURS TO.EUROPE 


AND SCANDINAVIA 


ARMSTRONG: No, we had not, Two 30-day all-expense tours-ane to 

Europe, one to the Scandinavian countries­ but one of the gentlemen in the are being offered to NACA employees at a cost squadron, one of my classmates, of $888 per person for each tour. The May 15 


to June 14 tours, sponsored by the Mach Twain actually, was assigned a collat­


Club (a social group at NACA Headquarters), 


will eral duty ofbeing the equipment include round-trip air transportation, 

first class hotels, most meals, sightseeing, and escape officer, so he went 

admission fees, taxes, gratuities, and evening over to parachute school, as I re­ entertainment. 

The low price of the tours is based on member, in El Centro, California, 

full passenger participation-71 passengers are and came back and told us how needed to make the flight, and at least 30 for 


the tour, Those wishing to take the flight to do it, if the need ever arose. 


only may do so at a cost of $335 for the round 


trip. 


Preference for seat location and hotel BRINKLEY: Did you get resspace will be given in accordance with receipt cued quickly once you landed, of application. A deposit of $100 is required 


with each application,with the balance due with no problem? 


before April 5. Full refund Will be made if 


the tour is cancelled for any reason. 


Itinerary for the European tour includes: ARMSTRONG: Yes. A jeep 


England, Holland, Belgium, Germany, Switzer­
 drove up just as I was landing, land, Italy, and France. 

The Scandinavian tour will cover from K-3. The driver was a roomScotland, England, Holland, Belgium, Germany, mate ofmine in flight school. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and France. 


Those interested in the tours should 


contact Leona Corbett for application forms 
 BRINKLEY: A roommate from and further information. 

where? 

18 
ground fire? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes, we had a lot of bullet holes in our airplanes when we brought 

them back. We'd patch them up. 

AMBROSE: Put a little duct tape over that hole. 

ARMSTRONG: Yes. Made them look pretty good, painted it over. 

BRINKLEY: After your first month on the [U.S.S.] Essex [CV-9], then you had lib

in Japan when you'd get to spend time there? 

ARMSTRONG: Usually we'd spend four or five weeks at sea and then they would 

the entire ship back to Yokosuka for a week of refurbishing and reprovisioning and 

things like that. About one day a week we did some reprovisioning at sea (fuel) ... , 

on a monthly basis, five weeks or something like that, we'd go back in for five day

six days, something like that. 

AMBROSE: You could get aviation gasoline [av gas] while you were at sea? Or w

you say fuel, you mean fuel for the carrier? 

ARMSTRONG: You know, I don't really know what all kinds of fuel, but they had 

pipe, a hose that they could put over from the provisioning ship to the carrier. I ass

they had both (bunker fuel] and jet fuel, and maybe av gas, too. 

BRINKLEY: The teamwork and camaraderie experience on the Essex-is there an

way to compare that at all to being in the astronaut corps or with engineers and c

tractors in the space program? The concept of teamwork-now, this is something 

became a big part of your life from this point on. What was the teamwork aboard 

Essex? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes, it was [a] teamwork operation, certainly. We had very few oc

sions when we would do anything on a solo basis. Almost everything we did as tea

and in our case we usually liked flights of four at least, to help each other out. Eigh

eyes are better than two in looking for trouble and looking for targets. 

AMBROSE: A diamond formation with the four? 

ARMSTRONG: We used a formation, usually an echelon two airplanes each, sepa

by probably a quarter to a half mile. That would allow us to see a broad panorama 

to the rear of the other-we would be looking after their tail and they would be look

after ours. That was a different approach than had been earlier introduced, or at lea

attributed to [Commander] Jimmy Thatch, the so-called Thatch Weave .... We did n

use that technique. 

19 
the chance to fly with him. Ernie Beauchamp, a wonderful skipper, [I] had enormous 

respect for him. I thought he was-and is; he is alive today-a superior leader. I think if 

there was anything I learned from our skipper [it] was that it's not how you look, it's 

how you perform. 

AMBROSE: So, you came home from Korea and you'd completed your obligatory 

time in the Navy, and you went right back to Purdue to finish school. Is that right? 

ARMSTRONG: Actually, my time expired when I was flying off the Essex, and so my 

options were to either extend or swim home. So I extended. 

BRINKLEY: Were you excited to return to civilian life after the war and get on with 

getting back to going to Purdue and back to finishing your college degree? You must 

have been older now-right?-going back to college. You were one of the youngest 

pilots. 

ARMSTRONG: I was 22. I was really getting old. When I went back to the 

university, kids looked so young. 

AMBROSE: Did you have a decision to make or did you always say, 'I'm going back 

to Purdue and I'm going to finish this degree?' 

ARMSTRONG: Well, there were tempting options, but I decidedAMBROSE: To stay in the Navy, for one. 

ARMSTRONG: To stay in the Navy or otherwise use the skills that the Navy had 

taught me. Those opportunities showed up periodically, but I thought it was important 

to go back and finish my education, so I put that in first position. 

BRINKLEY: Then you joined the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics 

[NACA] at that point. Did you then move to Cleveland? 

ARMSTRONG: I did. That was my first job out of college. 

BRINKLEY: And that was at the Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory [now NASA 

Glenn Research Center]. 

ARMSTRONG: Right. 

BRINKLEY: You just rented an apartment on your own, or how did youARMSTRONG: I rented a room at first, in a private home, and later met one of the 

20 
Among Neil 

Armstrong's early 

activities were tests 

of the Iron Cross. A 

ground simulation 

of the reaction 

control system 

being developed for 

the X-15 project is 

shown. 

(E56-2578) 

ARMSTRONG: Yes. 

BRINKLEY: What were your general duties and responsibilities there at the labora

in Cleveland? 

ARMSTRONG: A dual job as a research pilot and a research engineer. Actually, I t

at that point they called them research scientists. The flying involved doing work w

new anti-icing systems for aircraft, which we had a C-47 (or R4D or DC-3) with va

ous kinds of anti-icing equipment that we would fly out in the worst weather we co

find, out [over] Lake Erie and try to pick up a lot of ice and find out which were the 

most efficient ways of shedding it. We also did some work in high Reynolds numbe

high Mach number heat transfer, and this project involved flying an F-82, which wa

a Twin Mustang, and flying out to the Atlantic Ocean and going to high altitude and 

launching a multi-stage rocket downward into the atmosphere to get very high Mac

numbers at very low altitudes, and therefore very high heat-transfer rates. The nose 

cone was instrumented to measure those kinds of things. 

I did a lot ofwork in that area, also on my scientist or engineer job, in analyzing tha

data and also designing components for advanced versions of the rockets that we wer

ing .... But I wasn't there long, and I'd originally applied to Edwards for my first job. T

didn't have a spot. Unbeknownst to me, they had transferred my application to the oth

NACA laboratories, and as a result ofthat, the Lewis Laboratory talked to me about c

ing up there and filling an opening that they had. It was the lowest-paying job that I w

offered coming out of college, but I think, in retrospect, it was the right one. 
experts who were predominantly lady English teachers or librarians who were absolutely unbearably critical of the tiniest punctuation or grammatical error, and that is 

what NASA needs today. Because it really made a good product. The rigor of the language, which I never mastered, but I appreciated after being exposed to those charming 

ladies who were so tough. 

AMBROSE: I know exactly what you mean. That's my wife that you're talking about. 

[Armstrong laughs.] And I get asked, 'What's the secret to being a successful writer?' I 

say, 'Marry an English major.' 

BRINKLEY: When you left Cleveland, did you drive from Cleveland to California 


with your car? 


ARMSTRONG: I did. 

BRINKLEY: Where did you go immediately when you went to California? What was 


your destination city? You were going to Edwards? 


ARMSTRONG: Edwards, yes. 

BRINKLEY: What were your first projects there when you got to Edwards? 

ARMSTRONG: I'd have to look in my log to be sure. First they wanted me to learn 

a little bit of the NACA techniques for data collection and so on, and they had a P-51 

[Mustang] that they had very rudimentary instruments and data-collection techniques 

for. They made me go out there and do a lot offlights and practice a lot of maneuvers 

for test purposes, and tum in the results so they could see whether I was starting to get 

the hang of it. Took me awhile, but it was a good experienceAMBROSE: Tell me about that plane. 

ARMSTRONG: It is a nice airplane, and had a wonderful sound, particularly when you 

retarded the throttle and you got those stacks putt-putt-putting. It was quite elegant. I 

enjoyed flying the airplane. Just didn't have the performance of an F8F, but it was built 

[to fly at] high altitude. Well, it first was built to be an attack airplane, not a fighter, but 

a fighter version of it became predominantly a high-altitude escort long-range aircraft. 

AMBROSE: So, continue withARMSTRONG: Other airplanes? They flew some other jets. They had a YRF-84F 

[Thunderflash]. When I got there, I was the fifth pilot. [A.] Scott Crossfield had announced that he was going to go be the pilot on the X-15 program, whoever won it. 

He...had agreements with all the different bidders, that if they won the contract, he 

22 
AMBROSE: And you flew a B-29? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes. We had two that we used for dropping rocket aircraft, the X-

and the [Douglas D-558-11] Skyrockets. So I, either as the right-seat or the left-seat 

in the B-29, launched over a hundred rocket airplanes in the '50s. 

BRINKLEY: A couple ofyour X -15 flights became pretty well known, one in whic

you lost your stability [system] and had to recover, and then there's also the missio

which you ended with the longest X -15 flight on record, when you had to fly back 

to Edwards from the south. Do you mind just commenting on particularly those two 

flights? 

ARMSTRONG: I can remember several different system problems in the flights. Y

almost always had something. I can't recall the details of the SAS [Stability Augme

tation System] problems. I would have it in my notes someplace, but I don't have it 

in memory. The [other] flight was an altitude flight. I had done a lot of the develop­


ment work on a new type 


offlight control system B-.29 LOSES PROPELLER 


that was installed in the BUT LA.NDS SAFELY 


number three aircraft and 
 A safe landing on the Dry Lake was lllade vith 

the HSFS B-.29 late yesterday after one or its pro­ different from the ones pellers tore loose and ripped into the fuselage er 


they numbered number the four-engine bomber.. The accident occurred 30,00

feet over Palmdale while the B-.29 was preparing tl)
 one and number two. That launch the Douglas D-558-JI {144) Skyrocket. 

According to crew members, when an intense vi­ system was developed by bration was suddenly felt from the No. 4 engine~

Minneapolis Honeywell in Pilot Stanley P. Butchart i.n:nediately nosed the 


B-29 downward and cut loose the 144, piloted by
 Minneapolis [Minnesota], John B. McKay. McKay jettisoned his rocket propellants and glided to a safe landing on the Lake. and I would go up there Almost as soon as the Skyrocket had east offp


and fly an F -10 1 [Voodoo] the propeller pulled loose from the bomber's No. 4 


engine, ripped up the nacelle of the No• .3 engine•
 they had outfitted with a 	 then plunged through the bomb bay and crashed out 


the other side of the fuselage.
 prototype version of this Because the pilot's aileron control cables 


system. were cut by the propeller, it was necessary for 


Co-!?ilot Neil H. Armstrong to bring the bombar home. 

Because the X-15 None of the seven men aboard the B--29 was 
 injured. Crew members on the flight were:
 covered such a wide speed Pilot - Butchart 

range and altitude range, it co...,ilot -Armstrong 

Engineer -Joseph L. Tipton

was impossible to set the Scanners - Lester H. Booth 

Norman K. Jones gains in the flight control Crew (144) - Homer H. Hall 

system to a single value Thomas J. Raczkowski 

Flying chase for the flight were Air Force 

that was optimum for all captains Loren w. Davis and Iven c. Kinchloe. 

A committee, composed of the followiDg HSFS flight conditions. The one personnel, vas appointed today by Walter c. Williams, 

Chief of the Station, to investigate the accident: and two airplanes, you had 

Chairun..Vonald R. BelllJlan

to continually be changing Kenneth s. Kleinknecht 

Joseph A. Walker the gains because at one 

minute you're at Mach 
regular center stick, and when you're outside the atmosphere you flew with the reaction 

controls with a separate stick on the left side. With this system we hoped to be able to 

fly the same way all the time, with one stick. 

This particular flight you mentioned, we went to somewhat above 200,000 feet, well 

outside the atmosphere, so that we were completely flying on reaction controls up 

there; aerodynamic controls were completely ineffective, like flying in a vacuum. 

Then we had a system limit built into the flight control system that would automatically prevent you from exceeding 5gs. If you hit 5gs, it would automatically put 

controls in to hold it below 5gs, and one ofthe things I wanted to do was demonstrate 

that that part of the system worked. It had never been yet demonstrated in flight. That 

was my responsibility to do that. We tried this many times in the simulator without any 

difficulty, but when we really did it in flight, I couldn't [quite achieve 5 gs], so I [kept] 

pulling to try to get the g limiter to work. 

In the process, I got the nose up above the horizon. We'd done this in the simulator, 

never had any problem with it. But I found when I did it in real flight, I was actually 

skipping outside the atmosphere again. I had no aerodynamic controls. That was not a 

particular problem, because I still had reaction controls to use, but what I couldn't do 

was get back down in the atmosphere .. .! [rolled] over ... and tried to [drop back into] the 

atmosphere, but [the aircraft] wasn't going down because there was no air to bite into. 

So I just had to wait until I [fell low enough] to have aerodynamic control and some lift 

on the wings, [then] immediately started making a turn back. But by that time I'd gone 

well south of Edwards. 

FR~ employees extend their sine 

sympathl.es to Mr. & Mrs Nel."l A th 1 • rmstrong e oss of their daughter, Karen ~2 1 

old, • ­

_X-15 conference 

ter conducted and 


The Flight Research ~:nthe progress of the 
 o ated a conference 30 1962 ~ot' COOrd l.fi eA January I • 

. ct last Tue~~ay~ S "ences l.n Los 

X-15 pro]e f Aerospace cl. · Aviathe Institute o f m North Amerl.can Personnel ro U S Air Force 

Angeles. . White of the • • h" h was . and Ma)or ference, w l.C Paul F. Bikle and Joseph R, Vensel flew to t~~~'participated in the c~~ about 200 persons. Canaveral to observe the Mercury orbital ~resented b:fore a g~~~~arch Division, was the last week, •• Neil A, Armstrong went to 

Mr. Jack Fl.SC~~~~tor for the fRC. the Launch operation ••• Lyndell L, Manley 

principle coer l. to No:folk, Virginia to wo~k on the Mery Publl.c Information news team aboard the 

Randolph, 

24 
under pressure? When you had later problems with Mr. Scott and Gemini [8], how 

these thingsARMSTRONG: Well, I always felt that the risks that we had in the space side ofth

program were probably less than we [had] back in flying at Edwards or the general 

flight-test community. The reason is that when we were out exploring the frontiers, 

were out at the edges of the flight envelope all the time, testing limits. Our knowled

base was probably not as good as it was in the space program. We had less technica

insurance, less minds looking, less backup programs, less other analysis going on. 

isn't to say that we didn't expect risks in the space program; we certainly expected 

would be there, were guaranteed that they would be there. But we felt pretty comfo

able because we had so much technical backup and we didn't go nearly as close to 

limits as much as we did back in the old flight-test days. 

BRINKLEY: And to live out around Edwards at that time, you were right near the 

base? 

ARMSTRONG: I lived about an hour drive away, south. Nobody lived close. A hal

hour is about as close as you could live. Big base. 

BRINKLEY: We were out at Edwards. I was just wondering if you could comment 

the Air Force's X-20 Dyna-Soar [Dynamic Soaring] program and how did you deci

upon the Douglas FSD-1 Sky lancer as the suitable demonstrator for parts of the Dyn

Soar flight profile. And did you develop any procedures based on flying this aircraft

ARMSTRONG: Yes, I did. The Dyna-Soar program, of course, was first intended to 

a high hypersonic but nonorbital vehicle, and predominantly a research vehicle. It w

originally scheduled to be launched on the Titan I. It later became obvious the Titan 

might be available and be a better choice, and that gave increased performance, but 

not orbital. 

Then when the Titan III was introduced-or looked like it was going to be introduc

with additional [solid] rocket engines strapped on the side of the [missile] ... why, it 

might be an orbital vehicle, and if it would be orbital, why, it could be an operationa

craft. The Air Force savored the idea of having an operational spacecraft and having 

their own manned space program separate from NASA. So the project grew and grew

Eventually it was not continued; it was canceled, perhaps because it grew too much. 

The launch, unlike the Mercury and Gemini and so on, was a winged vehicle on to

and there was a question what kind of abort technique would be practical to try to us

in case there was a problem with the launch vehicle, in the Titan. It was determined 

rather than a puller rocket, [a] pusher rocket [would be used], to push the spacecraft 

to flying speed from which it could make a landing, but it wasn't known at that time 

what might be practical and how much thrust would be needed and how much perfor

mance would be needed. 

We had the FSD aircraft, which I determined could be configured to have a similar 

25 
ISSUE 31 Edwards, California VOL 3 

Aug. 19, 1960 

X-15 SETS SPEED, . . 

ALTITUDE· MARKS 

Unofficial records for speed 


and altitude were re-written this 


month. ~rrithin an eight-day period 


at the Flight Research Center. 


First to hit the news was Joe 


Walker who rammed the X-15 to Mach 


3.31 (2196 m.p.h.) in a flight Aug 

4. Walker 1 s ten-minute dash in 


the rocket-powered research air­


craft surpassed the late Capt. Hel 


Apt's 2094 m.p.h. mark. established 


in theX-2 in 1956. 


:Eight days · later, l'iajor Bob 


White, flying:.24 hours after an a­


b<?.rt-ed:rU.n due to<=~ nitrogenvalve 


failure, pointed the X-~5 craft 


·skywe1rd, .peaking out at 136,500 


ft. ---alrno.st t-vro miles higher than 


the_, la'te ,Capt.~ Iven Kincheloe re-' 


corded in .the .X-2, also in 1956 • 

. )3oth Walker .and White were' ela- ' 


ted with. tfie .two history-makir'l:g ' 


successes--:--along 1'!'ith the -rest oi' , 


NASA and the world.- . ;. · 


:Congratulatory ·messages ··"Were 


received by both pilots, ·including 


one sent to Walker by Col.: Frank 


Everest in which .the-. noted USAF 


test pilot asked Joe, 11When are 


you publishing your book entitled . and the highest 
 1Fastest Man Alive. 111 ., 
 f" l' -1­

26 
into orbit by a 

Titan IIIC booster. 

It would then reenter and land at 

Edwards. 

(EC62-128) 

glide angle or lift/drag ratio to the Dyna-Soar for similar flight conditions. [We] dev

a way offlying the aircraft to the point at which the pusher escape rocket would bum 

out, so you would start with the identical flight conditions that the Dyna-Soar would 

find itself [with] after a rocket abort from the launch pad. So then, establishing that 

initial condition, you only had to work out a way to find your way to the runway and 

make a successful landing. 

I worked on that project for a time and found a technique that would allow us to 

launch from the pad at Cape Canaveral [Florida] and make a landing on the skid stri

[a runway at Cape Canaveral]. We practiced that, and I believe that Bill [William H.

Dana and Milt [Milton 0.] Thompson both continued [that program] after I transferr

from Edwards to Houston .... There was a NASA report written about the technique. I

was a practical method. I wouldn't like to have to really do it in a real Dyna-Soar. 

BRINKLEY: What other responsibilities did you have at the [Flight Research Center

other than being a test pilot? 

ARMSTRONG: Our principal responsibility was engineering work. We did not do a 

offlying. It was program development, devising simulations, looking at the problem

offlight, and trying to figure out ways we could test those things and devise solution

to those problems. It was a wonderful time period and it was very satisfYing work, 

particularly when you found a solution that would work. 

BRINKLEY: Did you know about the first call for astronauts that went out to military 

test pilots? I was wondering what your thoughts may have been when you learned 

about the astronaut program, when you first started realizing it. 

ARMSTRONG: We were certainly aware ofit, both through NASA-because NACA 

had become NASA by this time-and also from our colleagues in the military, good 

friends and people we flew with daily, some ofwhom had been invited to consider ap

plying for that. ... I knew a number of the Air Force people at Edwards who later trans

ferred to Houston like I did. But I wouldn't say that I knew them very well, not nearly 

as well as I knew the other NASA pilots and NASA engineers, for that matter. They 

were on a different part of the base. We occasionally had meetings where we would b

discussing the same subjects and we would see them probably more frequently in the 

air, when they were out on our wing tip with an F -104 [Starfighter]. 

27 
Honorary Fellows aviation pioneers such a.s Jimmy Doolittle, Air Force General 


Albert M. Boyd, Howard Hughes, a.nd Navy Admiral F.M. Trapnell, 


The country's top test pilots a.re members of the SETP, which is dedicated 


to promotion of a.ir safety, continuous evaluation of the a.deq_ua.cy of flight 


eq_uipment, exchange of information for improving testing eq_uipment a.nd high­


speed aircraft escape procedures, a.nd stimulation of interest in the youth of 


,the .nation in choosing careers in aviation. The Society is endeavoring to accomplish these objectives wi 

out ..a.ffecting the competitive structure of in!iustry, transgressing the boundaries of proprietary interest, 

or serving a.s a. ba.rga.ining agency for the members. 

Attending the a.wa.rds banquet from HSFS, in addition to Mr. a.nd Mrs. Joe W;,uker, will be Mr. a.nd Mrs. 

Walter Williams, Mr. a.nd Mrs. De Beeler, Mr. a.nd Mrs. Joseph Vensel, Mr. a.nd Mrs. Richard Da.y, Mr. a.nd 

Mrs. Thomas Finch, Mr. a.nd Mrs. Gerald Truszynski, Mr. a.nd Mrs. James Love, Mr. a.nd Mrs. Stanley Butchart, 

BRINKLEY: Do you have any thoughts on some of the early events of the space race, 

such as the launch of Sputnik? Do you remember your feeling, on hearing about Sputnik and Explorer 1? Were you conscious of the politics of the Cold War going on with 

the race into space at that time, when you were at Edwards? 

ARMSTRONG: Well, before it was Dryden, before it was Flight Research Center, it 

was called NACA High-Speed Flight Station, and they were working on the problems 

of high-speed, high-altitude flight. They were looking ahead to days when we would fly 

hypersonically and high hypersonically and eventually even further, [hoping] to solve ... 

the problems along the way that would allow that to happen. It wasn't something we 

talked a lot about, because in those days spaceflight was not generally regarded as a 

realistic objective, and it was a bit pie in the sky. So although we were working toward 

that end, it was not something we acknowledged much publicly. Not necessarily for 

fear of ridicule, but probably somewhat. 

BRINKLEY: With Sputnik, do you recall where you were when you heard about that? 

ARMSTRONG: Yes. The Society ofExperimental Test Pilots was holding a sympo­


sium in the Beverly Hilton Hotel [California] in October of '57, and I was working 


on-I think I may have been program chairman; I'm not sure about that now-for the 


symposium. But in any case, I was very much involved in the symposium, and we were 


trying to find ways to get the Los Angeles press interested in the kinds of technical pre­


sentations that were being produced there, and get a little coverage of what our industry 


was doing and what was happening in the test-flight world. But it was a very hard sell, 


and it became completely impossible once Sputnik came across the sky, and all of a 


sudden we couldn't get any people to come listen to problems about airplanes flying. 


AMBROSE: And your own reaction to Sputnik? Curiosity, or more than that? Or, 'God 

almighty,' or what? 

ARMSTRONG: I don't remember exactly what my reactions were at the time, too much 


colored by intervening events. But I guess it was disappointing that a country who was 


28 
During 1956, it was reported, 216 loans were made for a total of $108,211.33· Areg_uest was issued that a.ll .'tpplications for loans be made before ll a.m. on Tuesdays.· 

Election of officers was held with the following members selected: 

Board of Directors Credit Committee 

Ralph Sparks Pref!ident Jack Nugent C.b..airman 

Henry Daniels Vice President *Pat Msresh Secretary 

*Thomas Finch Treasurer *Bill LePage 


*Norman Hayes Asst ..Treasurer *Ralph Pernula 


Eelen Foley Secretary Martin Byrnes 


*Ne:i..l A~mstrong PUblicity Chairman 


Supervisory Co~ittee 

Stanley Butchart Chairman 


Arthur Lynch 

*Donald Bel.l:man 

o~e member is to be selecced cy t~e Board of Directors to fill the vacancy created 


by the !"es:l.gnstion oi' Leslie C=bett. 


(*Elected for two ye~so) 

the "evil empire" in our minds at that time would be 

beating us in technology, where we thought we were 

preeminent. At the same time, it was encouraging, 

because it demonstrated the kinds of things that we 

were interested in really might be achievable and EX-PRESSIONS 

perhaps it would encourage people to look at our 

FRENZIED PACE ••••• Joe Walker 

world with somewhat more curiosity and perhaps Major Bob White are rapidly d

covering ''What Makes SaJlll!lY Run?

approval than they had before. It did change our 	 After the two set world altitu

world. and speed marks :i.n the X-15; tIt absolutely changed our country's view were besieged from all sides 

of what was happening, the potential of space. I'm television and radio appearanc

feature stories, telephone :l.n

not sure how many people realized at that point 	 views, etc •••Both appeared on N

TV's "Today" show last Tue

just where this would lead. President [Dwight D.] a.m., and Joe followed that w

Eisenhower, I think, was saying something like, an appearance as the "Face :i.n 

News" on Ben Alexander's "A

'What's the worry? It's just one small ball.' But I'm Faces" show which videoed Tue

afternoon (ABC-TV) ••••Needles

sure that was a facade behind which he had sub­ say, the two should be well kn

by near 100 million ladies ••••

stantial concerns, because if they could put some­ Keep:i.ng up the pace, Walker 

thing into orbit, they could put a nuclear weapon on guest star on "What's My L:i.ne"

day evening (Aug. 21) from 

a target in the United States, because the navigation York •••Watch the TV page for t:

GOOD READING•.•Additional repr

requirements were quite similar. of National Geographic's f:i.ne 

ticle on NASA are availabl

...That was an eye-opener, I think, to a lot ofpeo­ room 139 ••••••• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 

ple. Maybe there was substantial interest in, 'Well, Speak:l.ng of l:l.terature Ric

Tregaskis, author of 11 0uadalc

maybe we can get people up into space.' That was Diary," is w:i.nding up his boo

the X-15 program, following 

instantaneous, that possibility. 	 two recent flights •••Inform

on when the book will be avail

will be published when receiv

BRINKLEY: Here you are a test pilot and you're 	 SLOW DOWN •• ,Speed l:l.mit with:i.n 

FRC fenced per:l.meter ( ma:i.nly 

flying the most advanced aircraft in the world. aircraft ramp) is now 10 m.p.h 

STUDY HARD •••••usc graduate st

What makes you at that point in time want to join 	 courses, to be given at Edw

this fall, are be:l.ng formu

the astronaut corps? What is it that made you and will be published · when 

decide, 'This is what I want to do'? plete ••••As many persons as p

ble will be enrolled :i.n the p

gram••••••••••••••••••••••••••

GALS HEAR TALK ••••••WONASA me

ARMSTRONG: It wasn't an easy decision. I was (Continued next co

flying the X-15 and I had the understanding that 

29 
NACA HSFS, Edwards, California Issue 13 

FLU IMMUNIZATION TO BE AVAILABLE FOR HSFS EMPLOYEES 

On Monday, October 28, from 2:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m., through the Bakersfield Public Health Clinic, 

first, second, and third polio shots will be offered at no cost to HSFS employees and their families at 

the Main Base Cafeteria. The cafeteria is located on the corner of Mojave Boulevard and Wolfe Avenue, 

diagonally across from the Civilian Personnel Office. 

Infants must be 6 months or older and adults under 4o years of age. It will be the employee's responsibility to make arrangements for his family. Employees, with permission of their supervisors, may be 

excused from work for the time necessary to receive the shot. 

A clinic will also be held at the Gephart School in Boron from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. for any employees 

wishing to take their polio shots at that time. 

NACA Headquarters has notified NACA facilities that sufficient vaccine has been obtained to make it 

possible to immunize all NACA employees against Asiatic flu at government expense. The vaccine will be 

available at HSFS about October 15 and will be administered by Nurse Elinore Irvin. All employees who 

desire to be inoculated are requested to notify Mrs. Irvin by October 15 so that a schedule can be set up. 

FIRST HSFS UNITED FUND DRIVE NOW IN PROGRESS 

HSFS' first United Fund Drive was officially opened this week. The single-package drive to solicit 

employee contributions for charitable and humanitarian or welfare agencies in this area will replace all 

other appeals usually conducted during the year. No further fund appeals (except for emergencies or 

disasters) will be made until September 1958. 

Some of the agencies included in the United Fund are the Antelope Valley Community Chest, Red Cross, 

Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Crusade for Freedom, Salvation Army, Heart Fund, and Cancer Fund. 

Joseph Vensel, Fund Campaign Manager, will be assisted during the drive (Sept. 30 to Oct. ll) by the 

staff of solicitors pictured below. The following Board of Directors will administer the Fund: Martin A. 

Byrnes, chairman; Ralph E. Haley, vice cha:!:rman; Florence P. Maresh, secretary; Elinore J. Irvin, treasurer; 

Edward J. Lynch, John G. McTigue, and Oscar N. Hayes, Jr. 

As pointed out by Board Chairman Byrnes, an employee's contribution represents the whole of his 

charitable giving at home and at work for the entire coming year. The complete amount he contributes will 

go to the specific agency he names without any deduction for overhead costs, as is customary in professional 

fund raising campaigns. 

30 
in this world see projects come and go. A p

ect's established, it may run for several yea

finally get canceled, and I had been assigne

aircraft test projects and never, never flew t

airplane, because the need changed. I never 

to that goal. 

We sort of saw every project of this type 

as something that, 'it may go or it may not.

Although you learn a lot when you're on a 

program that eventually gets canceled, there

lot more satisfaction in being in a program t

really reaches its fruition.), can't tell you no

Neil A. Armstrong just why, in the end, I made the decision I d

(left) and Center but I consider it as fortuitous that I happened to pick one that was a winning horse. 

Director Paul F. there would be no way to predict that at the time, when it got to that fork in the roa

Bikle. my case, a three-way fork. 

(E-16107) 

BRINKLEY: Some of the other test pilots that didn't go into the Apollo program, th

stayed at Edwards, that believed, 'We're flying our own planes,' and had that attitud

did you ever catch like, 'Space, that's for, like, the dog that went up, or the monkey

Is that kind of an attitude that prevailed? 

ARMSTRONG: On the part of some, yes. At the time the Mercury program was sta

ed, it might well have gone that way. In a sense it did, in that they had a lot ofmonk

flights. But I believe that the reason it did not keep that characterization was that the 

Mercury crewmen insisted on making it an airplane-like device, have the same conv

tions as normal airplanes, so that your natural instincts were proper, and insist that t

crewmen be able to perceive enough and see enough and have sufficient informatio

available ... that he could make reasonable choices about proper alternatives in how t

control the craft in a manner that would maximize the ability to get toward the objec

tive. 

So I think that was a great contribution on the part of the Mercury guys, who were 

probably abrasive to some of the engineering managers in that time in their demand

that the craft be built in this way. So that certainly was important. 

Y: What was the astronaut selection progress like, 

ofphysical and psychological tests were you subto once you made that decision? 

Many good-bys 


last Friday to Neil Armstron 
 . Well, I don't think the community offlight 


who departed FRC after his trans 
 and flight physiology knew very much what they ne

fer to NASA's Manned Spacec do at that point. There were widespread predictions that 

..............., could not survive in space for a variety of reasons, bo

physical and physiological. So they didn't really know exactly 

31 
ARMSTRONG: Well, it was very different. There were 

some similarities in the sense that we were planning and 

we were trying to solve problems and devise approaches, but since we were trying to do an operational job, we 

were extremely focused. A research project tends to be 

more broad, generic-cover a range so that you have indications as to which might be the best path. The Apollo 

and Gemini programs-Mercury, I really wasn't involved 

in the early parts of that-but in the germination of Gemini and Apollo, we were looking for not a range of stuff, 

but the best method that we could find that would give 

us ability to go at the earliest possible time, maximum 

speed, and with the highest level of confidence. Quite 

a different responsibility, yet the skills, the engineering 

approaches, and the equipment available to us was really 

quite similar. 

BRINKLEY: How did you feel when President [John 

F.] Kennedy made his great challenge to put a man on 

the Moon in that speech-not just yourself, but the whole 

team you were with? Was that a moment where you 

really-can you recall Kennedy's speech, and can you 

recall that kind of commitment that came out of President Kennedy? 

ARMSTRONG: Well, yes, I certainly remember it, 

but it's a bit hazy because I've heard recordings of it 

so many times since, that you're not certain whether 

you're remembering or you're remembering what you're 

remembering. So I'm not certain what it was. And, 

of course, it's been colored by the fact that I read so 

many stories of how that process actually occurred and 

what led to his conclusion to do that. I guess I've been 

persuaded by historians that it wouldn't have been his 

first choice, but he didn't find any other good options to 

go against the Soviets with. The world was caught up 

in what the Soviets were doing. And he'd campaigned 

against [Richard M. Nixon] on that basis [the need to 

challenge the Soviets in space]. 

BRINKLEY: I guess I'm thinking of the youngness of 

all of you, and here's this young president saying that. 

Did you feel like he was part of the team, like he was 

a leader now-with President Kennedy, we really had a 

32 

An official announcement, made 

month, named former Center pilot 

Neil Armstrong as commander of Apollo 

11, the first Apollo flight that could land 

on the moon. If everything goes as 

planned, Neil could be the first man on 

the moon. Fred Haise, another ex-Center 

pilot, is back-up lunar module pilot for 

this f t 
For Next Week 

Gemini 8 will be launched on a 

three -day mission from Cape 

Kennedy, Fla., no earlier than 

March 15, the National Aeronautics 

and Space Administration announced last week. 

Command pilot for the mission 

is civilian Astronaut Neil A. Armstrong, a former X-15 pilot. Pilot is Air Force Maj. David R. 

Scott. Gemini 8 will be boosted 

into orbit by the two -stage Titan II 

Gemini Launch Vehicle, generating 430,000 pounds of thrust. 


Scheduled liftoff is 11:40 a.m. 


EST. 

The rnis sian will include ren- llllr.Z..,!a\Of;I,JF%:1 


dez'"OUS with a Gemini A gena Tar- .iG~!'!"~I':i 

get Vehicle (GATV) (modified 


Agena D), extravehicular ac tivi~y 

byScott, and 11 onboard experi­


ments. 


The Agena will be launched into 


a 185 -statute -mile circular orbit 


by an Atlas Standardized Launch 


Vehicle approximately 100 minutes 


before Gemini 8 liftoff, or at 


9 a.m. EST. 


Gemini 8 will go into a 100 by 


!68-statute-~ile elliptical orbit 


and rendezvous is planned during 


the fourth revolution, approxi­


mately five and one-half hours 


after liftoff. 


After rendezvous, Armstrong 


will perform the first of four 


docking~ with the Agena, in which 


the Gemini will be physically con-


BRINKLEY: Describe your training with the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle [LL

and the Lunar Landing Training Vehicle [LLTV]. What was it like to try to fly it, a

how valuable was that experience during your mission? 

ARMSTRONG: Start at the end and work back. It turned out to be very valuable. 

Originally, when they started first talking about lunar landing, it wasn't known wh

technique would be used to go there. I was at Edwards, and we started thinking ab

how you would simulate flying over the Moon. That was a natural thing for us bec

in-flight simulation was our thing out at Edwards. We did lots ofin-flight simulati

tried to duplicate other vehicles or duplicate trajectories or duplicate this or duplic

33 
real spacecraft. So we actually devised such a craft. It looked like a tin Campbell Soup 

can sitting on top of some legs, with a gimbaled engine underneath it. That became the 

basis for a requirement for a bid to build the LLRV. It was not known at this time that 

there would be a Lunar Module. It was direct ascent and Earth-orbiting rendezvous 

and other strategies were still being considered. Matter of fact, the Lunar Module came 

after the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle 

Fortunately, the characteristics and the size [and] in the inertias and so on of this 

training device were very much like the Lunar Module. That was strictly fortuitous. So 

it turned out that the people-this is after I'd left there-Joe Walker, Don Mallick, and so 

on, went through the project to fly this thing, and finding out what the characteristics of 

a machine flying in a lunar environment would be . 

...At that time it was decided to go the lunar-orbital rendezvous method and build a 

Lunar Module, and it turned out that [the LLRV] was just about the right size. After 

that, they made the Lunar Landing Training Vehicle, which was designed to be even 

more [Lunar Module]-like, so it would give you a good representation. In fact, it did. 

All the pilots, I think, to my knowledge ... thought it was an extremely important part of 

their preparation for the lunar landing attempt. As you may know, the Lunar Module 

was designed to be able to make an automatic landing, but to my knowledge no one 

ever did. 

BRINKLEY: So the simulation-how close a simulation was this training to the actual 

landing? Were you in for any surprises when you actually had to land it differently than 

the simulation? 

ARMSTRONG: It was harder to fly than the Lunar Module, more complicated, and 

subject to the problems that wind and gusts and turbulence and so on, introduce, that 

you don't have on the Moon. The systems were somewhat choppier or less smooth than 

the actual Lunar Module, both propulsion and attitude control systems were so. The 

Lunar Module was a pleasant surprise. 

BRINKLEY: Do you mind discussing the incident you had with the Lunar Landing 

Research Vehicle when it crashed? What was your involvement in the investigation and 

recovery process in that? Were you part of all that? 

ARMSTRONG: Well, it's fairly well covered in a variety of documents. Just say that 

for an unknown reason, the pressurization gas-I was conducting a simulated lunar approach and lost the pressure and gas to the attitude control rockets, and when you lost 

attitude control...it diverges-not very slowly. And there was very little time to analyze 

alternatives at that point. It was just because I was so close to the ground, below a hundred feet in altitude. So again, time when you make a quick decision. You departed. 

I did not participate in the investigation ofthat, because I had otherwise assigned duties at the time, so others did that. We lost three of those vehicles, and it was a contrary 

machine and a risky machine, but a very useful one .... 

34 
Personnel 

Among Center personnel who 

lwiltne!;sed the launch of Apollo 11 was 

Dana, Pilot's Office, who brought 

the following impressions. A comby Jim Love is also included. 

15 

6:30a.m. Thin overcast. asked my­

"Would they go with this weather 


{be;ow X-15 standards)," but I knew they 


. Very red-eyed. because it's 3 a.m. 


n California. . 

8:30a.m. Tour buses leave receptron 

Travel up route A 1A to Cape 

Air Force Station. This was the 

portion of the Air Force Eastern 

Range. Here we see vast arrays of 

though they 

a 

We crossed the man·made causeway 

· 1 1 d The first NASA-owned Merntt s an · . . 

is Pad 37, the site of the fatal frre m 

1967. Here we visit the control 

from which Apollo 7 was controlled 

launch in October 1968. We note 

it is about 20 times as large as the 

control room, but very similar rn 

hidden between the 

gantry and the gray 

mobile gantry is even gantry. 

impressive than the Saturn/Apollo 

This is the vehicle that transports 

Saturn/Apollo a distance of three 

from the Vertical Assembly Building 

to 39A on giant "caterpi liar 

tracks. Because of the weight of 

gantry and its load, the sandy soil of 

Island could not support it. A 

road. 100 feet wide and 25 

'It trom the VAB to the deep, was bur 

out of special gravel mined in Tenn

feet tall and its base covers 8 acres. It 

can house four Saturn/Apollos in various 

stages of assembly. As we visit it the day 

before the launch of Apollo 11, it already 

contains a nearly assembled Apollo 12, 

which is scheduled to launch in November. 

This completed the tour of the 

Cape area the day before launch. 

July 16 

The alarm rang at 4:30a.m. (1 :30 

a.m. Lancaster time) and we were struck 

with the thought that perhaps our overriding memory of Apollo 11 would be that 

of overwhelming drowsiness. A shave revived me, and we stepped out of our room 

into a sky of stars. This was a pleasant 

contrast to the previous morning and was 

read as a good omen for launch day. 

After a quick cup of coffee, we 

boarded an "Official NASA Visitor" bus 

for Cape Kennedy. This put us in the 

select company of 10,000 other sleepy 

souls on 249 other diesel buses. As we 

approached the Cape, the dark VAB was 

not the outstanding edifice; it was a 

brightly lit Saturn/Apollo from which the 

movable gantry had been removed. ln 

the darkness, the white gleaming Saturn 

was like a giant candle set on the table, 

Merritt Island. 

We were in the stands by 7 a.m .. 

2-1/2 hours before launch, but even with 

10,000 other spectators we were able to 

spot at least a dozen people we knew. 

Countdown was amazingly orderly. 

We were surprised how late crew entry 

was. Neil did not get aboard until about 

2·1 /2 hours before launch and the other 

two af~r that. 

a.m. EDT). we knew there was a 


function. Tf'fB"Saturn did not move 


the malfunction and applauded at l

An eternity later' as the Saturn cl

the gantry. we could hear Neil sa

the loudspeakers, "We have a roll 

gram." The crowd applauded a

According to Jim Love, who witne

the launch from a different area, when 

first stage ignited, the men who 

responsible for it cheered with gu

When the second stage ignited, the t

nicians responsible for it cheered e

longer. 

At an altitude of 8 or 1O,OOO f

the Saturn Passed through a local cl

and disappeared momentarily, It le

black, slow-moving shadow on the clo

which somehow reminded rne of a ph

nix rising from its own ashas. 

No sound reached the viewing stan

for 16 seconds after launch. When t

sound did come, we had expected it to 

a chest-rattling vibration, reminiscent 

an X-15engine ren. Instead, it was a seri

of ear-piercing sonic booms from th

supersonic nozzles of the Saturn's moto

Soon the craft reappeared from b

hind the cloud, and we watched its con

trail move down range. Staging occurre

at a distance of 70 miles. The crow

viewed staging from the stands and ap

plauded the departing Apollo. 

Other than the extreme slowness o

the liftoff, the biggest surprise was the 

brightness of the rocket exhaust. Al

though we were looking into the morning 

sun and had our sunglasses planted firmly 

on our noses, the glare from the rocket 

motors was painful to watch. 

We knew the flight had to end 

successfully with such a perfect launch. 
LLRV Accident 

Report Released The investigation board has cited a 

loss of attitude control as the cause of an 


ccident that destroyed the number one 


~unar Landing Research Vehicle in Houston. In the m~shap last May 6, ::::~ Center pilot Nell Armstrong e~P f 


minor injuries "'then he ejected JUSt be ore 


the crash and landed by par~c~u~:·L:~~ Lunar Landing Research Vehl~ e . , 


a flying Simulator built to train p~lo:a:o: 

landing operations on the Moo ' 


total 1:~ NASA accident board found 

that the pilot was forced to escape a few 

seconds after the loss of helium pressure 

. the propellant tanks caused premature 

~~utdown of the attitude control rocket 

system-fhe mishap occurred when the vehicle reached a hovering ~~~~o~ l:o~~ 30 feet above ground. D LLRV 

thrust fromd the ~ft :~t=~~ntht~e pilot 

started to escen ' 1 Earth shifted controls back to norma 

flight operations, It began climbing. Thend 

tl because the pllot was warne 

~~~a~:: :f running low on propellant for 

his attitude control rockets. he l~st c~~­

trol of the vehicle. The pilot lm: ~~ 

e·ected when the craft was a ou 

~~~Y f~t abo:_., ground and beginnmg to 

nose u;h:n=o~~~ ~~:~~ that the source of 

the trouble was the loss of helium pr;ssur; 

throughthehydrogenperoxid~tanr::re 

the llft rocket system. This P • 

forces the peroxide propellant from ,h~ 

tanks to the l_ift rockt~~ ;~:t ::o~~;ol thrusters operated by 

attitud~~rmally the LLRV can be flown 

d landed safely with its gimbal-mounted ;;t engine a~d attitude control thrust;: 

after the propellant supply to 

~i~:nrockets is depleted, ~ut this calls for 

quick acti~m by the pilot as soon as 

warnin-ih~o::~C Board S<lid this actl_on 

amounted to a "critical pilot task dunng 

(Continued next column) 

INTERVIEW. 

and television crews . 

~h~~a~o:~~~:::d period wh1ch deve_loped on this flight." _It laid the baSI: 

dlffioultyondesigndeticlency ~ecause th 

helium pressurization f~r attitude con 

trol is not protected against loss through 

the llf~~:c~~~~~~~:~~ LLRV received Its 


initial flight tests at the Flight_ Resear~: 

Center. 
 Over 15o successful fl1ghts we 

made :e~:;l copy of the summary of t~e 

accidentreportisavailableinthePubllc 

Affairs Office. 

Cover The cover of this month's X-Press 

shows the new radar InstallatiOn ~t Ely, 

Nevada. This is the radar that IS providing all up range. covefr~~: ~~:t~e~i:: 

tlightsTs~~c:i:e ~~o~~~g aontenna has a 29­

foot diameter and is supported_ by a n: 

pedestal. The new radar, bu_llt b: exRadio Corporation of Amenca, 

tremelyaccurateand is capable of tracking 

orbita~:::~it:~ HAIR, High Accurac; 

Instrumentation Radar, tha radar:~;~ 

ready been used to track recent .ts 

d X-15 flights with excellent resul . 

~~ the future, Center flights as w:ll 

as those from other Government agenoes 

willusetheradar. 

Rocket Engine Mallunction 

Mars First Powered 

HL-10 Flight 

The first powered flight of theHL10 lifting body was made late last month. 


Unfortunately, it did not last as long as 


planne~~e flight was planned to reach a 

top speed of 0.8 Mach or approximately 

600 m;;ilowmg launch, research . pilot 

Major Jerry Gentry activated thee:~:: 

for the number o~e and threehe number 

of the rocket eng~ne. Only tent to the 

three cham~er lgmted,:~ :l:d for him 

~~e~:a:eh;~~:~s~:~ :nd four. H~wever, both o-f these chambers also faded to 

lgnite.Following preplanned procedures, 

the pilot elected to land at Rosam~ndg 

L ke A very successful \an ~~ 

~~~ m:de. with no damage to the aircraft. h 

Dunng the weeks pre~~r~c:i~ 

flight, Genttr:llh:~ ~haedeal=ate Iandin< landings a 


s1tes. 


Contributions Sought 

Flight Research Center employees and contractors now have 

a chance to contribute directly 

the war against Communism in 

South Viet Nam. Through the cooperation of CARE, the Marine 

Corps Reserve Civic Action Program has undertaken to provide 

the South Vietnamese with medical 

supplies, food, tools, clothing, 

and other necessities. 

Bruce Peterson, Center Research Pilot, and a Captain in the 

United States Marine Corps Reserve, explained the Civic Action 

Program is both a humanitarian 

effort and a means of winning 

friends who will deny Viet Cong 

guerrillas the support they require. 

Information about the program 

can be found outside the cafeteria 

on a bulletin board, or by contacting Bruce Peterson. 

prior to launch, Stan 

Butchart, Flight Operations, placed a 

telephone call to Neil Armstrong to wish 

him a good trip. It took several minutes 

for Neil to come to the telephone and 

he greeted Stan by saying, ''I'm sorry 

to be so long, but I was talking on the 

other telephone to the President." ..... . 

36 
Interviewed by Curtis Peebles 


February 16, 2001 


William P. Albrecht was among the large number ofpeople who helped transform 

X -15 from concept to reality. In many ways, the X -15 represented as great a leap int

unknown as the X-1 had more than a decade before. The vehicle flew at speeds and 

tudes two or three times greater than those reached by earlier research aircraft such a

X-1A, D-552-11, or X-2. As operations engineer on the X-15A-2, Albrecht had to de

with the results of extreme heating experienced by the aircraft at high speeds, which

on one occasion, nearly caused the loss ofthe aircraft on its final flight. After reachin

speed ofMach 6.7, the heat generated burned through the aircraft's lower fin. 

Albrecht's involvement with aerospace engineering began in the early years ofjet 

propulsion. His background was different than that ofmost engineers, even at that ti

He had only a brief technical school education rather than a formal university degree

He arrived at Edwards in 1951 as a contractor, but not for the NACA or the Air Forc

37 
Murray Politz - aeronautical research engineer in the Aero Structures 

Branch, from Brooklyn, New York 

Jo Ann Wo Rogers - mail and file clerk in Research Files, from 

Palmdale 

Q: Let's begin with your family background and how you became interested in aerospace. 

A: I was in a family ofthree children. Dad was a book salesman. He was in the book 

business and became the chief salesman in the Macmillan Company in New York. I lived 

in New York. I was raised on Long Island and became interested in model airplanes and, 

in fact, models of all sorts-airplanes, trains, and such. That's kind ofhow it started. I took 

up a scientific academic curriculum in high school and went to Stewart 

Tech in New York City, which was one ofthese small trade schools. Operations' Bill Albrecht celeThey taught aircraft mechanics-that sort ofthing-and they brated (?) a half century of clean 

taught some preliminary living earlier this week at a surprise Former X-15 pilot Bob Rushworth aircraft design, which birthday party. The rest of Ops is now Director of Flight Test at Wright­ is the course that I took. Engineering is betting that Ron Patterson AFB.... Meryl DeGeer, Flight That ended after about six . was married on Valentine's Waite won't make it that far... Operations. months and I was drafted Day which prompted perennial bachelor 

into the U.S Army during Bill Albrecht to say, "If marriage is such 

Bill Albrecht. Operations, spent the war. a good deal. how come Cupid never got 

· d7" A bachelor party for Meryl a week skiing at Aspen. On marne ... · · 


was hosted by his best man, Herb Anderson returning to work, he presented 
 Q: Then you served in the 

featured an educational lecture by his lecture course on how t India-China-Burma Theater, . 0 ·ans engineer Bob Baron. · · Identify highway patrol motor- in airport construction. Any cyles while passing from the specific incidents that stand 

rear. · · · .Also on the out? 

A: Well, a brief description ofthat assignment: We were assigned 

first in India, where we built concrete runways for the B-29s that would subsequently 

be used for strategic bombing ofthe Japanese. That ended when our regiment moved to 

Burma. And of course the objective there was quite different. This was no longer concrete 

airports-it was hacking dirt runways out ofthe jungle. The Japanese didn't like that, so 

they made life a little difficult for us. I think the most interesting event that occurred was 

not the operations in Burma, although they were certainly exciting, but the trip after the 

Burmese campaign when the Japanese were driven out ofBurma down at Rangoon. Our 

regiment broke up, and a bunch ofus were sent to Kunming (China). We flew to Kunming 

and then we took the old Burma Road, or Ledo Road, from Kunming up to Chungking. I 

don't think it's called Chungking anymore. 

But when we arrived at Chungking we had visions ofbecoming another large regiment 

and trying to drive the Japanese out ofthe shoreline areas ofChina. However, when we 

got to Chungking we heard about the first A-bomb drop on Japan. And of course none of 

us knew really what all that meant. Several days later, when the second bomb fell and the 

38 
A: Well, after I got back from the war I thought I would probably never leave New Y

But after a month I was so fiddle-footed I couldn't sit still and I started looking for a 

in aircraft as a draftsman or something like that. The only place that was hiring at the 

was Chance Vought, at least ofthe people that I interviewed with. Chance Vought w

in Bridgeport at Stratford, Connecticut. So up I went to Stratford and took up residen

there. My first task was updating drawings based on EOs [engineering orders] and o

engineering data that somebody else invented. So it was a very dull sort ofjob. I was 

simply copying somebody else's work. The boss ofwhat was called the Drawing Ch

Group was an old German guy who was a real stickler for printing and the formalitie

drawing. He finally got a hold ofme and said, 'Hey, are you sure you want to do this 

ofwork?' I said, 'No, not really.' He said, 'How would you like to go down to the Ex

mental Department and operate as the liaison engineer.' I said, 'Boy, would I.' So tha

what got me started into the world offlight tests and experimental work. 

Q: So at the time you only had that few months 


oftrade school? Service Emblems 

Are Received A: Yes. It was a course in drafting with some 

very, very fundamentals ofstructure and aerody­ Service emblems have recen

ly been given to Flight Resear

namics. I have no sheepskin from a college. Center employees for governme

.. service. 

The length of time and the em

Q: You worked on the XF7U Cutlass program at ployees are listed below: 

Naval Air Station Patuxent River. What events 

Five Years stand out in your memory? 

Helen Brooks 

Christobal Flores A: I was sent down there as a sort of a field 

Ten Years engineer-here at NASA, we would call it an ops 

[operations] engineer-with the first XF7U, and William Albrecht 

Harold Bryan several flights were made. On the last flight for 

Roy Bryant

that particular airplane it fell in the Chesapeake Lynn Buttcane 

Bay. We Ernest Dunn never recovered the body ofthe pilot Norman Gravatt although we spent, I guess it was, a month, six Robert Halasey 

weeks hiring Wilma Harris some fishermen from Smith Island 

Willie Mayes

across the bay. We strung chains and cables Charles Miller 

between pairs ofboats JohnP. Smith and plowed through the 

George Trott bay, trying to snag the wreckage. It was really 

Fifteen Years a futile effort from the start because we had 

only a very vague idea ofwhere the impact Marion Brown 

Ramon Jimenez occurred. But we did wind up picking up some 

Carl Osborn

pieces, which gave us some encouragement, 


and we identified the pieces as part ofthe first The twenty and twenty-five yea

emblems will be presented at th

XF7U. But after six, eight weeks we gave up annual ceremony in October. 

trying to raise the main fuselage and, of course, 

39 
of a new thing. The afterburners were most unreliable. You could not guarantee that the 

afterburner would light any better than one out ofthree-something like that-at the start. I 

think that was probably the biggest problem with early jet technology. The engines were 

just unreliable. You could get the turbines going fine but ifyou tried to use full power, you 

were never sure that you were going to get it. 

Q: And a carrier deck is a real short runway. 

A: Yes. But of course for takeoff you had the burner going before they released the 

catapult-so you could probably count on getting off from that point ofview. But in the air 

you couldn't reliably light the afterburner. 

Q: You then moved on to the Regulus I and II programs. Again, what events with these 

stand out in your memory? 

A: Well, again we started with a jet engine, in the Regulus. The Regulus I had a J-33 [jet 

engine], I believe. It was quite reliable, but of course it was not after-burning and Regulus 

I was not a high-performance machine. The Regulus I eventually wound up on submarines and some mid-size vessels, sitting on launchers on the afterdeck of cruisers. The 

Regulus II was a Mach 2 vehicle. It was powered at first with, I believe it was, a J-65, and 

eventually it was planned to have a J-79 after-burning engine. That was one ofthe better 

engines ofthe era, in my mind. The J-79 and the afterburner were much more reliable than 

we had seen in the XF7U or the F7U. One ofthe things that I recall was that in spite of 

the fact that it was an unmanned vehicle, it did not have a flight termination system of any 

sort. We crashed a few ofthem around various bits oflandscape here in southern California and Nevada. At least two, I think, went into Death Valley. There was one that crashed 

over in the Central Valley on a ranch. That seemed to be acceptable at the time-safety 

being what it was then. 

The Regulus II was quite successful as far as it went. However, in the case ofthe submarine deployed version-it required the submarine to come to the surface and remain a 

sitting duck on the surface while you rolled the missile out onto the launcher that was on 

the deck and raised the launcher and fired it off. That took 20-odd minutes, and during that 

time you were a sitting duck for enemy action ifyou were found. The Regulus died a sort 

of a natural death when the Navy became successful in popping Polaris missiles out from 

under the water which, of course, didn't require a submarine to surface. As soon as they 

got several successful pop-ups oftheir dummy Polaris, the Navy came to Chance Vought 

and said, 'Sorry, boy-you're out ofbusiness as far as the Regulus missile is concerned.' 

Q: What was the time frame? When did you join the Regulus program? 

A: That was in 1951, when I first came out to Edwards. We did our development test work 

here at Edwards using both Regulus Is and Regulus lis equipped with landing gear so we 

could launch them and test them and then land them and use them again. The military 

40 
vicinity ofwhere the present main runway is. Lancaster was, I would say, about sev

thousand people strong. That included the surrounding area and Palmdale. There we

or two nice restaurants in town. One ofthem I can remember had a large mahogany 

la western style, with big mirrors and brass and that sort ofthing. It was a really big 

when J.C. Penney moved a department store in Lancaster. Everybody just about cel

ed. We also had but one traffic light, and that was at the junction of Sierra Highway 

Lancaster Boulevard. But the Wild West atmosphere still prevailed. Ranching was a

at that time-raising hay and stuff like that-that required lots ofwater. Water pumpin

done throughout the valley to keep crops growing. The water table at that time was 

high. It's somewhat depleted now, although so is much ofthe agriculture in the Lanc

area. I think the big crop they're growing now is carrots and onions. Alfalfa and hay 

seemed to disappear. 

Q: You spent 13 years at Chance Vought before joining NASA in October of 1959. W

caused you to make the switch? 

A: Well, as I said earlier, we lost the big contract for Regulus II. Coupled with that w

a contract for a Navy fighter. We lost that to the F-4, which was built by McDonnell

Navy opted for a fighter with a crew oftwo and two engines. Chance Vought went i

competition with a fine airplane, the F8U-3, that flew very well-performed really, I 

better than the F-4 at the time. But it had one pilot and a single engine. The Navy ap

ently decided they wanted more reliability and they wanted the rear seat to take care 

the nav [navigation] and the avionics. 

Q: The fire control radarA: Yes-fire control and things like that. So what caused me to make the switch was 

after we lost the contract for Regulus and there was no more flight test out here-whi

included, at that time, Regulus and the F8U-3-we all went back. Our flight test grou

at Edwards closed down. We went back to the main office, which had moved at that 

from Bridgeport down to Dallas, Texas. I wasn't particularly happy with Texas, havi

spent some time in California. I was impressed with the mountains and the neat thin

do out here. I wasn't much of a golfer and that's what they had most in Texas. But an

I wound up in the main engineering office doing paperwork designs and things like t

and it was kind of dull after having spent seven or eight years with the flying machin

I decided to switch. 

Q: You worked on the F-1 04 air-launch sounding rocket. What do you recollect abou

program? 

WINTER FUN ••• 

A: Well, that was a fun program. Bill Albrecht. Operations Engineerin

When the X -15 started to come recently returned from a week and a half in 

Valley, Idaho. He reports the skiing was e

around I was not assigned im­ cellant. 

mediately. We only had one bird 

41 
y g 

the F-104 into a zoom to a near-vertical attitude, at which 

time the rocket was launched. When it reached its apex 

the nose cone was jettisoned and the folded balloon 

popped out, and almost instantly the water inside vaporized and filled the balloon. I forget what the diameter 

was, but it was quite large and you could track it with 

the radar. It was intended to be a meteorological study of 

winds aloft. 

Q: When you arrived at the Flight Research Center the 


X -15 was making its early powered flights. What were 


your duties when you joined the program, and your recol­


lections ofthese initial flights? 


A: The early X-15 flights were done by North American, and then the first vehicle was 


turned over to Dryden. It wasn't Dryden then but the Flight Research Center. I was not a 


part ofthe early flights, I guess, for maybe the first six months or so. I was still working on 


the air-launch sounding rocket. But when the second vehicle came along, I was assigned 


to it. When it was delivered, I became the ops engineer for that vehicle. 


Q: What were your specific duties with X-15 #2? 


A: Specifically, it was basically what our ops engineers do [at Dryden] at the present time. 


That is, to manage the crew chief and his crew in terms ofthe technical aspects. They 


weren't working for us in terms of administrative assignments, but the ops engineer called 


the shots as to what to do to fix a problem, how to service and that sort ofthing, schedul­


ing ofthe work and reporting upstairs to the project manager and helping to sort out flight 


schedules and that sort ofthing, based on the ops engineer's knowledge ofwhat was going 


on downstairs. 


Q: What about the buildup to the Mach 6 and the 


350,000-foot altitude? What do you recall about that 


series offlights? 


A: Well, they were fraught with little problem areas. 


As the envelope was expanded, things like structural 


damage, warping ofleading edges ofthe wing-things 


ofthat nature-required little fixes here and there. Like 


the leading edge, for example; we put slots in and left 


a little gap there so that segments ofthe leading edge 


could expand without causing the leading edge to 


buckle. There were many little examples ofthat sort 


ofthing. Although in the systems world, the problems 


The F-1 04 airlaunched rocket 

was the first project 

Albrecht worked on 

after joining NASA. 

(E-6508) 

X-15 #2 after the 

landing at Mud 

Lake, Nevada, 

November 9, 1962. 

(E-9149) 

42 
The heat shield 

after it was applied 

to the X-15A-2. 

The coating would 

protect the aircraft's 

metal skin during 

the planned Mach 

7+ speeds it would 

be subjected to. 

(E-16915) 

Q: The X-15 #2 was damaged in a landing accident. Following this the aircraft was 

fied. It was lengthened and external drop tanks were added. What do you recall abou

specific vehicle and the operational and technical issues that arose? 

A: Well, I was kind ofin the thick ofthat. The fuselage was lengthened by about 29 

es, the intent being to provide room for a liquid hydrogen tank and a system to provi

hydrogen to a scramjet. The scramjet design was in the making then, and Langley Fi

[now Langley Research Center] was up to their elbows in that one. The plan, ofcour

was that X-15A-2 would be outfitted with a scramjet to be mounted under the aft sec

in place ofthe lower ventral. As it turned out, the scramjet suffered greatly from tec

ogy development and that sort ofthing and we never got around to flying a real scram

although we had the hydrogen system in the airplane. As we advanced beyond Mach 

other things got in our way. We had some landing-gear problems. Due to stretching o

fuselage the cables that operated the landing ge

were now longer and so they didn't have quite 

required allowance for expansion. 

So we had several instances ofnose-gear ex

sion. We had a nose-gear extension at Mach 4 

so heated the tires that they just burst, and whe

we landed it looked like feathers hanging offth

wheels. That sort ofthing kept us on top ofthe 

gineering aspect ofthe thing. We worked, of co

with North American. A lot ofthe ideas came f

our people, and North American developed the 

physical designs, which resulted in changes in 

landing gear and other sorts ofthings. Our inte

was to get to Mach 8. We finally got to 6.7 wit

tanks and an ablative material, which we spray

onto the aircraft and then painted it white. 

We had trouble with the windshield cracking at the high temperatures. Also, when 

put the ablative on we were concerned that perhaps during the ablative process the m

rial would gas off and maybe cover with a film the windshield so the pilot wouldn't b

able to see to land. The answer to that was to build what we called an 'eyelid.' We pu

eyelid over one ofthe windows so that iffor some reason the eyelid didn't work whe

you approached landing, hopefully you'd have the other glass clear. Ifthe other glass 

not clear you counted on the eyelid to open and give you at least one clear window. T

were the kind ofthings that stood in our way. 

Q: Were the drop tanks ever an issue? In other words, you were at supersonic speeds 

you dropped these large tanks. 

A: We were at Mach 2 when we dropped the tanks. They were equipped with a rocke

separate them and they worked quite well, as a matter offact. We were concerned at f

but of course we made a couple offlights with the tanks empty-at least one flight wit

43 
jgg 

Tickets Today! 


tached to the lower ventral directly-I'm not quite sure ofthat. 


But, in any case, it had this long spike. The shock offthe spike 
 The "Hearts A Go -Go" will 

contacted the aft fuselage and burned a hole in it, and along be held at ·tl;~ Knights of Colurnwith that it caused severance of one ofthe hydrogen peroxide bus Hall in Lancaster at 9:00. 

Tickets are available from the lines, so we had peroxide leakage in the back end also. That 

following: Bobby Am.!rews,

was the major damage that occurred on that flight. Della Mae Bowling, Betty Callister, Sandy Illian, Molly De 

Q: This was followed by the accident with X-15 #3 which Haan, Gertrude Kelly, and 

killed Major Mike Adams. Although you weren't Boots McNally. involved 

Tickets are $1. 75 per person. with that particular aircraft, what do you recall about those 

events? 

A: Well, I was not the ops engineer for that aircraft. But we all shared different duties with 

the different aircraft, and I was involved in the control room monitoring and I was also 

involved in the accident investigation. My recollection in the control room was that there 

was a long period of silence when Mike was way up at altitude, and then finally transmission came through in a rather strained voice and he said, 'I'm in a spin.' There was not 

much that we could do in the control room. I believe Pete Knight was the mission controller for that flight and his response was, 'Watch your alpha,' [angle of attack] which was a 

big concern with that airplane as far as exceeding the alpha limits in getting the thing to 

flip. Well, it was already flipped, apparently, and it was in a flat spin. 

Well, first of all, we didn't have any good information 


s to the flight path as it was descending in the spin. In 


Contrails: act, we didn't really know that it was a spin at the time. 


hat we did was, with a large sort of a skirmish line we 


The" Keep your powder dry award" '.earched across the desert-the area where the fuselage goes to Scoutmaster Bill Albrecht, F I ight 

Operations, for taking his Boy Scout troop ):npacted and where we calculated that the canopy might 

camping at Morro Bay over the rainy ; ave been-and we came across the film cassette out of 

Thanksgiving weekend.. . .Public Affairs 

· e gun camera that was in the cockpit. Using that film, Officer R~ph Jackson served as one of the 


judgesfor the Lancaster Christmas parade. 
 . hich had a good view ofwhat we call the 8-ball-the ....Former HL-10 pilot Pete Hoag has 1

been transferred to Southeast Asia. Jerry ttitude indicator-the lab set up a model ofthe X-15 

Gentry will join him early next year. <nd, frame by frame, moved the model according to the The son of Betty and Marvin Callister" 

Flight Operations, has returned from ictates ofthe developed film out ofthe cockpit camera. 

Vietnam.....A visitor to the Center at they got at the end was a picture of an airplane last month was AI White, first man to pilot 


the XB-70.... .Two new resear~h fathers oing a flat spin not on a vertical line but on an angular 


are Tom Sisk with a baby daughter and escending line. So that confirmed that it was a spin. 
 Don Berry with a boy who has six older 
 I was part ofthe investigating team, and one ofthe sisters. Keep swinging Kolf. ....Kenneth 

Szalai, Flight Dynamics, received his Mas· teresting things that I think about right now as I'm 
 ter's degree in mechanical engineering 
 lking is that here was a case of an accident causing a from the University of Southern California in December 1970. . . .Terry Marshall, eath of a pilot, and there was no major agency-wide 


Flight Mechanics, will wed Kathy Baldwin, 
 vestigation. The investigation was done solely within a Lancaster school teacher, in April. .. 

ryden and local people. That was kind ofinteresting. 

didn't make any impression at the time, but when you 

44 
p, 

Nevada and is 190 miles from Edwards. 

FRC pilot Jack McKay was at 

the controls for his seventh flight 

in the series of research flights 

that are being conducted with this 

rocket aircraft. After ascertainistics. 

After touching down on the dry 

lake bed, the left landing gear collapsed causing the 14, 000 pound 

aircraft to go into a left skid. This 

skid continued for about 2, 500 feet 

resulting in the collapse of the n~~e 

gear and the right wing tip diggihg 

into the lake bed. 

Sensing the complications that 

were about to arise, veteran research pilot McKay made a split 

second decision and jettisoned the 

canopy. Soon after the canopywas 

blown off, the aircraft rolled over 

and landed on its back. 

As soon as the decision was 

made to land at Mud Lake, the emergency equipment began to put 

into operation the planned procedures for an event of this nature. 

Captain Paul J. Balfe, USAF, in 

an H21 helicopter took up a position that would enable him to remain as close as possible to the 

landed X -15. Aboard this helicopter was Dr. {Capt.) Lynn B. 

Rowe, USAF, the flight surgeon. 

From it's orbit in between Mud 

Lake and Edwards, the USAF C130 aircraft carrying a flight surgeon, paramedics, NASA X- 15 

sr- ~ialists and a vehicle containi. .be necessary equiprrient for 

rescue, headed for Mud Lake. 

Also on Mud Lake was a fire 

truck with· 1, 000 gallons of water 

to dilute and render harmless the 

various chemicals that are used 

in the X-15. NASA 8, a specially 

adapted jeep on the lake bed was 

manned by two NASA X-15 specialists, Robert Anderson and John 

Gordon,both Rocket Aircraft Technicians. 

As the~ X-15 started to Slide 

dr -·n the dry lake, the H2l helier landed next to the dan1aged 

aircraft and unloaded the first two 

Reverting to alternate plans, the 

pilot shut down the rocket engine 

and prepared for a landing at Mud 

Lake. As the X -15 left its trail of 

jettisoned propellants in the air, 

it was joined by the number one 

and two chase planes piloted by 

two other X~S pilots, Joseph Walker, NASA, and Major Robert 

Manes, USAF. They were soon 

joined by Curtis C, Lyons from 

the fire truck and the two X-15 

specialists, Robert Anderson and 

John Gordon. 

About three minutes after the 

X-15 had first landed, the C-130 

aircraft, piloted by Captain Gay 

E. Jones, USAF, had landed at 

Mud Lake and its crew members 

were assisting in the rescue operations. 

As the helicopter was hovering over the downed aircraft dissi.pcting the toxic '.a.mmonia fumes 

Jack McKay was being cut laos~ 

from the retaining straps that h~ld 

him in his seat. Five minutes after the rescue personnel reached 

the pilot, Jack McKay was out of 

the airplane. He was assisted 

through an opening estimated to be 

no larger than 10 or 12 inches. 

He was then .taken to the hospital at Edwards Air Force Base 

where he remained under observation until Tuesday, November 

13. After complete examination, 

he was found to have no serious 

injuries but painful bruises on his 

back. 

The manner in which this whole 

rescue operation took place reflects highly the training and preplanning that is necessary for the 

X-15 program. 

·Yes. That's right. Yes. 

: What do you recall about the final 

X-15 flights before the program en

·Well, X-15A-2 was still hoping to 

a scramjet-at least I had hoped that the

would still get it. We never even serviced the hydrogen system, although w

had vacuum jacketed lines and all ofth

paraphernalia that goes with hydrogen 

the airplane. As the time went on it bec

apparent that the scramjet was not goin

appear. I think they were going to mak

200th flight and the program ended wi

199th, because the day ofthe 200th wa

snowstorm, and as a result we didn't fl

200th flight. And that's where it ended

Q: What was the mood at the Center af

the X -15 program ended? End of an er

eager to move on? 

A: Well, there was maybe a little bit of

At the time we were also involved mor

and more with lifting bodies. And of co

that was looking to the future and they 

been flying and producing results. Peop

just turned their attention to the lifting b

was a certain nostalgia that came to be 

everybody that was associated with the pro

successful program and they were happy a

or Adams. 

see as the major operational challenges ofthe 

A: Major operational challenges were dealing with cryogenics and dea

with the very hot and very cold-very hot outside, very cold inside. 

Q: You then moved on to the YF-12A program. What were your specif

duties? 

45 
monitors. 

Q: What were the operational and hardware 

issues with this program? 

A: One ofthe issues that we came up against 

was measuring the thrust and things like thatgetting the right kind of data. Again, we were 

interested in dealing with heat, although we 

did not have ablative material on the airplane 

itself. We did have an experiment; it was 

referred to as the 'cold wall' test, and it was 

a cylinder that was slung on a pylon on the 

lower center line underneath the belly ofthe 

airplane. It had a coating of ablative material and a nose cone of ablative material, and 

it was equipped with pyrotechnics to blow that covering off. It was chilled with liquid 

nitrogen on the ground before takeoff, and the liquid nitrogen was put inside the cylinder. 

After takeoff and achieving the Mach 3 speed the ablative material was blown off and 

instantly exposed the super-chilled cylinder to the heat ofMach 3. And of course data was 

taken at that time. I have no real idea just how successful the data gathering was and what 

all it meant to the future, but as far as the experiment, the physical aspects of the experiment, it worked pretty nice. 

Q: The YF-12 took a lot ofpreparation. It was a very specialized aircraft. 

What do you recall about this? 

A: Well, so did the X-15 and so did the lifting bodies. I don't think there 

was any surprise to the Dryden people, certainly not to the mechanics and 

the crew chiefs that tended the Blackbird. They were dealing with similar 

things that were dealt with in the X-15 as far as hot structure and so forth. I 

don't think that that was really a very big problem. We understood what it 

took to service complicated vehicles and, of course, the Blackbird had been 

flying for some years and they weren't really experimental. The equipment that we applied to them was experimental but the airplanes were not, 

really. One thing that comes to mind on the YF-12A-we did over-stress it 

in a sideslip and we broke the lower ventral. The YF-12 had a ventral that 

folded to land and, of course, it was extended in flight. And we broke that 

thing badly and that was kind of a lessons-learned sort ofthing. 

Q: One aspect offlight research that tends to be overlooked is the contributions ofthe people on the ground. As you said, these vehicles require a 

great deal ofpreparation. Could you give some examples ofthese kinds of 

contributions by the crew chiefs and the mechanics? 

Mike Adams and 

theX-15. 

(E-1651) 

Final frames from 

the cockpit camera 

as X-15 #3 broke 

up in flight. 

46 
gine Project. 

The contract is for approximately $15 million and calls for 

final design. development, construction and testing of small research ramjet engines. The engine will have a design weight limitation of 800 pounds with dimensions compatible with mounting it 

beneath the aft fuselage of the 

X-15 No. 2 airplane. 

Liquid hydrogen fuel is specified for the research engine which 

must be capable of operating at 

flight speeds between Mach 3. 0 

and 8. 0 (2, 000 to 5, 000 miles per 

hour). Mach 1 is the speed of 

sound. 

The contractor will be required 

to deliver the first flight engine to 

NASA within 29 months. 

The ramjet engine differs from 

current aircraft engines, such as 

the turbojet, in that there are no 

rotating parts. It must be in motion through the air to begin operation. " Operation depends on air 

being rammed into the inlet. Fuel 

is introduced into the internal air 

flow to add energy through combustion. The expanded gases are 

released through a nozzle to provide thrust. 

Because of their fuel economy 

at hypersonic speed (above 3, 500 

mph), ramjet engines are expected 

to be useful for hypersonic transport aircraft, boosters, and for 

spacecraft flying within the atmosphere. 

Garrett was selected for this 

second phase of the Ramjet Project on the basis of its ninemonth preliminary design study 

completed under Phase I. Two 

other companies participated in 

the nine -month competition 

General Electric Co., Cincinnati, 

and Marquardt Corp., Van Nuys, 

Calif. 

Center To Participate I NAS A new research project to stud 

'the feasibility and design concept: 

on~ a~vanc~d hypersonic ramjet 

eng~e ls being organized by the 

Nabonal Aeronautics and S 

Administration. The Langley~~~ search Center will have dire ti 

o~ the initialphases of the pro;ra: 

Wlth support from the Flight Research Center, Lewis Research 

Center and Ames Research Center.. 

The project seeks the eventual 

cons_truction of a scaled research 

ramJet_ test engine as a means of 

advanc_Ing the technology of airbreathmg propulsion. 

. The Main object of the project 

IS to. determine the potential of the 

ralll.Jet as a propulsion syste~ for 

hypersonic -- more than five times 

~e speed of sound -- flight rni ­

stons. The ramjet powerplant ~a 

e:xp~cted to be useful for the hypersonJ.c transport aircraft, boosters 

n ha A .Ramjet Progra

tur~ ~ mov~g parts. Unlike t

co o!:~swh1ch has a ~echanica

r:!e ~r, the ~am.J.et com

p s air by raiiUning It into th

front_ of the ~ngine at high speed

Burlll.Jlg fuel 1& added to the com

:;;sse_d ai~ and expands throug

The tail ~Ipe to produce thrust

tivel ra~Jet operates :most effec

y tn the hypersonic spee

ranges. 

The NASA project will prObably 

use hydrogen as a fuel. It will be 

concerns~ with supersonic as wel

a~ s~somc burning, and will pro­

~de~orlllation on ra:rnjets operau g m a ~peed range from Mach 3 

pwards m the hypersonic range. 

. NASA engineers expect the proJect to provide :much of the technology necessary for eventual developmen.t of a practical engine 

The first ph~se of .the work will b~ and spacecraft while flying within co;cerned Wl.th study, fabrication 

the atmo.sphere at these speeds. :orexpe~iments with S.rna.lllaborMany engineers and scientists fore- y equipment.. Later phases insee great advantages in the use of elude actual flight tests ontheX-15 

ramjets at hypersonic speeds be- at spe~ds possibly as high as Mach 

cause of. reduced weight and im- 8. This phase of the program will 

proved flight efficiency. be managed by the Flight Research 

In its simplest form, the ramjet ~enter.. A model of a typical ram­

(Next column) J~t was mounted on the X-15 #2 for 

display to the President. 

A: Well, in addition to crew chiefs and mechanics you should also include avionics te

cians. We've had a lot ofcontributions by all ofthose people. Here's one example fro

one of our avionics techs. He wrote me a little letter and he said, 'The B-52 typically 

periences relatively long periods oftime between flights or engine runs. Normally dur

these times external power is applied to the aircraft for long periods oftime for mainte

nance operations. Due to the increasing difficulty ofprocuring spare parts for [B-52] z

eight, I recommend the following circuit breakers be pulled during post-flight procedu

to lessen operating time on unused systems .... ' 

Anyway, the suggestion here was to pull the circuit breakers after a given flight ifyo

weren't planning to use these systems for post-flight or any other checkout during the 

47 
y 

last week. Not only will the re­ search Center is expected in 

search aircraft be repaired, but February ,1964. 


additional modifications will be The main reason for the de­


made that will extend the speed cision to repair the aircraft was 


capability. This will be the first based on the needs of the research 


major modification in the X-15 program. It was also decided that 


configuration since it was designed. it was possible to make some mod­


The contract for the work was ifications to the X-15 that would 

given to North American Aviation (Continued on page 2) 

also increase its utility for con­ be attached to the lower portion of 

ducting aerospace and aeronautical the vertical tail and be tested in 

experiments. flight. 

The major modification to the Physical changes to the aircraft 

aircraft is the addition of two drop­ include the strengthening of the 

pable propellant tanks that will landing gear which will make the 

increase the propellant capacity of X-15 stand 19 inches higher on the 

the X-15 by 13,500 lbs. The X-15 ground. It will be lengthened 29 

inches with the installation of two now carries about 18,000 lbs. 

50 gallon spherical tanks in the ammonia and liquid oxygen. This 

fuselage. These tanks will be used increased propellant supply will 

for the storage of fuel for use in increase the engine run time to 

the anticipated ramjet study. approximately 145 seconds in com­ Modifications are also being parison to its present time of 83 made f9r the installation of camera seconds at full throttle. The added 

equipment for use in the star engine time will theoretically raise tracker experiments that will be theX-15's speedcapability to about performed in the X-15. 5300 m.p.h. or eight times the speed 


of sound. However, structural 


and adrodynamic heating restric­


tions may lower the actual speed 


increase. The present maximum 


speed of the X-15 is 4104 m.p.h. 


As yet, the operational procedures for recovery of the exter­


nal tanks that would be jettisoned 


from the X-15 in flight have not 


been finalized. A parachute -type 


device is under consideration. 


Additional work is being peraccommodate the in­


creased heating. An ablative ma­


terial that dissipates heat by burn­


ing itself up, will be used on some 


parts of the X-15. 

Consideration is being given to THE WHITE KNIGHT 

MATCHING AIRCRAFT AS SEEN the possibility of testing ran:jets BY CENTER ARTIST, LEE LYT-· 

with the X-15. Various ramJets, 


jet engines that depend on air 


pressed by ed t, 


48 
The forward 

fuselage of X-15 

#3 in the desert 

northeast of 

Edwards. 

(E-17845) 

that-ifthe crew hastily flipped up the canopy and a certain hose had not been cut, th

incapacitated pilot's ejection seat might be launched inadvertently. 

So a suggestion had been made to provide some sort of a guillotine device in the b

end ofthe canopy that could be operated externally by a lever and would cut the hose

This would prevent an inadvertent ejection ofthe pilot. We built that guillotine devic

the canopy and we used it a couple oftimes when the pilot couldn't get out ofthe air

for some reason-like the canopy was stuck and we had to pry it or something like tha

We'd cut that hose to begin with, just to make sure. Those are the kind ofthings. 

Most ofthe things that come from the shop people were to help you to improve the 

safety ofthe crew. Special tools-every mechanic has special tools which he built for 

own use, inventions, basically, to accomplish even a very small procedure that engin

write into the books but they don't tell you how to actually do it. So there are a lot of

cial tools and things like that. Yes, we depend a lot on input from the technicians. 

Q: Dryden also has extensive shop facilities. Could you give some examples oftheir 

tributions-equipment that was fabricated in-house rather than by a contractor? 

A: The shop technicians do their share in making suggestions. Quite frequently a des

appears in the machine shop or the metal shop created by some engineer who has the 

idea in mind but calls for blind holes and things like that that cannot be fabricated. Th

shop contributes heavily in that sort ofthing. They will come back with, 'Hey, why d

we make it like this.' Almost invariably the enginee

says, 'Hey, not a bad idea. Let's do it that way.' 

Q: I'm sure there have been many characters over t

years among the ground personnel. Could you prov

examples? 

A: Well, one ofthe characters I remember was Duk

Littleton, who was the crew chief ofthe X -15 #3. O

ofhis hobbies was to keep rattlesnakes. He kept the

in his garage in cages, but he'd occasionally go to t

local pet store and buy a little white mouse for food 

his snakes. He'd buy several ofthem sometimes. A

several months ofthis he showed up at the pet shop 

again and he said, 'I'd like to buy two more ofthos

little white mice.' The clerk at the store said, 'You must have a lot ofwhite mice by no

What are you doing with them?' He said, 'Oh, I just feed them to my rattlesnakes.' An

ofcourse, the clerk was irate and he wouldn't sell him any more mice. But Duke was 

of a character. 

Q: When I talked to you earlier you commented that you 'manage programs rather tha

people.' Could you give some examples ofthis, such as situations that developed, how 

you've dealt with them and the lessons learned? 

49 
A: Well, let's jump back to the X-15 for a little bit. We had this 

problem with the landing gear and the nose gear extending at high 

Mach number and, of course, creating a severe hazard for recovery 

because, first of all, you didn't know what all was going to melt 

inside the nose wheel well from the heat. The tires didn't exactly 

melt but they were destroyed. They were incapable of operating as 

tires. When the first event like that occurred there was, as you can 

imagine, a lot of concern and a lot oftheories and so forth. The 

initial theory was that somehow the forward lip ofthe nose gear 

door had extended downward enough to catch the airstream and the 

airstream opened the door. I maintained that the lip did not scoop 

up air-that the door operated as a kind of a compound bar because 

the inner skin was aluminum and the outside skin was lnconel. It 

operated as a compound bar and bowed so that in the center where 

it was being held by the up-lock hook, the door was bowing out and 

it unhooked, and that's what dropped it. Once we demonstrated that 

in the loads lab, the fix was sort of simple-a stronger hook, some 

spring load in the hook, which we added with cone washers that 

operate like a spring. That seemed to fix it. But that's the kind of 

thing where Operations was able to come to the aid ofthe project. 

Q: So, in other words, the Inconel stainless steel and the aluminum 

had different expansion rates. So one expanded more than the other 

and created a bend that triggered all these events. 

A: Right. The bowing ofthe door put a load on the up-lock hook 

sufficient to open the hook and drop the gear. The Inconel expanded and was hot and the inner skin that was aluminum was cool and 

didn't expand as much. 

Q: All right. Well, thank you very much. 

Newspaper Quotes No news media likes to make a mistake· 

~11 .hate to admit it. But the following clipping~ tnd1cate somebody 11 goofed'' somewhere. 

: Fro!n the Los Angeles~. August 4 , 

1962 

nThe first report was electrifying. 11 An X~lS rocket plane had landed on Sepulv~~a Blvd.• near the old San Fernando 

Mission. 

nsirens screamed, and newsmen raced for 

the scene. 

"It was an X-15 for sure--the first of 

three research craft that have been topping 

speed and altitude marks out of Edwards Air 

Force Base. 

11 But it was lashed to a truck that was re­

.turning it to the ~orth American Aviation factory for modifications. 

• 

11

Th~ confusion ·c<:Une when a California 

H1ghway Patrol escort was relieved by ;1 Los 

Angeles police escort. 11Someone repe-:l!ted there was an X-15 1 down 1 on Sepulveda Blvd. 11 He forgot to mention that by 1down' he 

meant truck-borne on Sepulveda, not crashed. 11 

# # # 

1.£ you are ever down in Houston, Texas, 

y~u m1ght visit the Bellaire movie theater. 

They have a wonderful 11 triple Horror Show. 11 

1962: From the Houston Chronicle, August l, 

:'~ ~ . BELLAIIlE . ··. . MO"'·2364 4020 Beflair• 

The~ Press International sends out 

their stories by teletype. Perhaps the teletype operator couldn't find the 11 r 11 button. 

From Matt Weinstock's column in the 

Los ~ngel~s Times, August 9, 1962: 

In h1s recent 59-mile-high flight in the 

x_-15, M~j. Bob White encountered yawine, a 

Slde to Slde motion, and last week, pilot~Joe 

Walker ~ent up in another X-15 ~quipped with 

automatlc control equipment to check this 

nReporting this flight, UPI referred to it 

as an "udder-flapping test, 11 which fasr- ted 

~im Wales. He thought the cow had .L........... ady 

JUmped over the moon. n 

50 
y were smking t 

low in the . . o a new It was nearly stranded wh Investigation of they woke up "dee . en morphological phenomena. geo- the · p snow, in 10 

Wilderness at Duck Pass," 

Ill-Fated Duck Pass Expediti and Layton. on Members Albrecht , Ayers, Capasso 

Yes, leaving kith d . 


behind, and forgetting theaIn km 
 ~ccording to layton. Well 

of past adventur essons uck Pass Expedition has , 

Alb es, our heroes, Bill exhonerated Th been 

recht,. Ted Ayers, Vince find the . ey actually did 

bottom of the "b Capasso and Gary La cended d yton des­ less" Grand Canyon. attorneeper into the . 
 abyss of the . Waiting And, they have a w 
 CANYON! (Music Up) GRAND vice· "D . . ord of ad­ . o rt Jn the winter . , soup." MUSIC U , rt s duck 

Yes, it was a cold day in mid­ ANNOUNCER· N P, then UNDER. 

February but th our sponsor..,. ow a word from prepared f e group was wellor the decent. Bill AIAFTER ALMOST A FULL WEEK OF CANCELLATIONS DUE TO B.':D 

WEATHER, PROSPECTIVE .X-15 PILOT M!KE ADAMS 

FOR ALL EMERGENCIES. 

X-15 Flight Planned to better acquaint himself with the Major Mike Adams was sched­ behavior of the X -15. Planned uled to make his first flight in the maximum speed was approximate­ X-15 this past week and to become ly 2700 miles per hour. the 12th man to pilot the aircraft. Major Adams was selected for The flight had been postponed the X-15 program last spring fol­ several times earlier due to ad­ lowing the transfer of Capt. Joe verse weather conditions. Engle to NASA's Manned Space­ The flight plan called for the craft Center, Houston, 36 - year - old pilot to be launched Formerly assigned to near Hidden Hills, a dry lake bed Force's Manned Orbital Labora­ on the California - Nevada state tory program, Major Adams re­ After launch, he was in­ quested and was granted release tending to reduce power and climb to transfer to the joint NASA-USAF to 74,000 feet where he would per­

Ralph Sparks 


Interviewed by Dr. Michael Gorn 


March 30, 1999 


With a top speed ofMach 6 and a maximum altitude of350,000 feet, the X-15 req

a new approach to the traditional research-flight profile. Previous rocket aircraft, suc

the X-1 series, the D-558-II, and the X-2, had been launched in the vicinity ofRoger

Lake. Ifthe pilot was unable to start the aircraft's engine or ifthe aircraft suffered so

other malfunction, he could jettison fuel and glide to a landing on the Rogers lake be

the rocket ignited as planned, the pilot would fly the research profile, and glide back 

Rogers. This permitted a safe recovery at any point in the flight. 

With the increasing speeds reached by research aircraft, however, flights could no 

be accommodated within this localized area. At Mach 3, it was barely possible for th

to be launched within glide range ofthe Rogers lake bed, fly the research mission, an

return to land at Edwards Air Force Base. The fatal crash ofCaptain Milburn "Mel" 

on the X-2's final flight in 1956 was the result ofhis immediately turning back towa

Rogers, apparently believing that ifhe did not do so, he would be too far away to rea

lakebed. The tum was made at a speed ofMach 3 and resulted in inertial coupling, w

sent the aircraft out of control. 

53 
For Joe Walker's maximum altitude flight ofAugust 22, 1963, on which he reached 

354,200 feet, the "drop lake" was Smith Ranch in Nevada. In the event the engine failed 

to ignite, or should a problem occur in the first 44 seconds ofthe burn, Walker was to land 

back at Smith Ranch. Ifthe failure occurred between 44 and 62 seconds, he would land 

at Mud Lake. Grapevine Lake would be used in the event of engine problems from 62 to 

78 seconds into the burn, and Cuddeback Lake ifproblems occurred between 78 and 81 

seconds. Should engine shutdown occur after 81 seconds, the aircraft would have enough 

energy to reach Edwards. This multi-lakebed strategy offered the advantage that whenever 

a problem might occur, the X-15 pilot would have a lakebed available for an emergency 

landing. Despite such a wide range oflanding options, however, in-flight problems still 

constituted emergency circumstances. 

The most serious landing accident involved NASA pilot John B. "Jack" McKay on 

November 9, 1962, in X-15 #2. After launch, the engine produced only 35 percent thrust 

at full throttle. McKay shut down the engine and jettisoned fuel in preparation for landing 

on Mud Lake. As he was about to touch down the flaps failed to extend, resulting in a 

high-speed landing. This proved too much for the left landing skid, which collapsed. The 

left stabilator and left wingtip dug into the lake bed surface and the X -15 began to turn 

sideways. McKay realized that the aircraft was about to flip over and jettisoned the canopy 

so he could get out once the X-15 stopped. McKay suffered several crushed vertebrae, 

leaving him an inch shorter in height. The X -15 #2 was badly damaged by the rollover. 

McKay returned to flight status and made 22 more X -15 flights, though the injuries he 

suffered in the crash landing eventually forced him to retire. X-15 #2 was rebuilt as the 

X-ISA-2, which was intended to be used to reach Mach 8 and test a scramjet engine. 

McKay's hard landing was the exception. Other emergency landings on the downrange 

lake beds resulted, at most, in only minor damage to the X -15. The biggest challenge was 

returning the X-15 to Edwards. The aircraft had to be partially disassembled, loaded onto 

a large flatbed truck, and driven across Nevada and California to Edwards. Like the Mach 

6 flights, these road trips could be adventures. 

SPARKS: Whenever X-15 landed up in Nevada, it would be my job to get it back. Clyde 

and I'd go up there and finally get it loaded onto a flatbed and haul it back. One time, 

we had come down through Death Valley in the middle ofthe afternoon. Some of the 

escort cars were running out offuel, so we stopped at Death Valley Junction. I told the 

guys, 'Go on in and have a cold one, and I'll put gas in all the vehicles out here.' So a 

big black Cadillac pulls up. The guy jumps out, raises the hood and-he's got a suit coat 

on-and starts taking the radiator cap off. The service station man yells at him, 'Don't 

do that! Don't do it!' So the guy turns around and looks at him and still takes it off. That 

rusty anti-freeze went all over him and his black car. I think he was burnt pretty bad, but 

I didn't get to stay around there. I got gassed up and got back on the road. Those were 

hard times. This tractor truck that we used couldn't make it over the mountains without 

overheating, so we put a 15-gallon barrel behind the cab, filled it with water, put a pump 

in it, and sprayed water over the radiator. 

54 
through the letter 

'F.' Score: X-15, 1, 

camper, 0. 

(E-15346) 

SPARKS: They arrested me. 

BAILEY: They said, 'You hit another automobile-you hit an automobile with a cam

These people didn't come back, just the cops. So we told them we were government. 

'Send us the information; we'll take care ofit.' So, about two 

days later, I got a call from these people in New Jersey. W

happened- they had rented this unit over in L.A. at the U

It, and they went camping and so forth. The woman was 

and she drove under the wing ofthe thing. And this [the w

Inconel X; there was no way you could damage this thing

said, 'My wife was driving.' He said, 'Do you realize that 

into our camper? It took the whole roof off.' He said, 'Wha

you going to do about it?' I said, 'Well, I'll tell you what. Y

into a $70 million dollar airplane.' He said, 'That's okay. T

.'And he hung up. That was the end ofthe conversation. 

Sparky and I were cruising along-we tried to stay on govern

like go through Death Valley and government reservatio

so forth-and we're cruising along about 70 miles an hour w

airplane on the back ofthis thing. All ofa sudden, this F -10

over the top ofthe hill right across us, barrels on around

Walker [radios us and] says, 'How fast are you guys going?' I said, 'I don't know. We

probably cruising 50.' [Walker responded] 'Like hell you are! You're doing 70 miles a

hour.' 

SPARKS: We were bringing the X-15 back from being overhauled out at North Ameri

[Aviation, in Downey, California]. At that time the [14] freeway was partially in but, o

course, we couldn't go on the freeway; we had a wide load. So they [the California Hig

way Patrol] ran us up the old Highway 99 to cut across, and we came in over at Frazier 

Park. We stopped and had coffee at Frazier Park, and the California highway patrolman 

came over, and he says, 'Can you drive a little faster?' He says, 'I'm supposed to be of

duty, but I got another appointment.' I said, 'Well, I was thinking about doing 70, mayb

80. 'And he said, 'Well, you just put it down on your pad; I'll stay in front ofyou.' Well

we came in Highway 138 and one ofthe Southern California Edison people recognized 

us. He knew I was probably involved, and he came over and talked to me that night abo

it. He said, 'God! You guys were moving!' We had a big, old diesel we borrowed from 

Air Force, and that thing really wanted to get hot and going. 

BAILEY: We stayed at some pretty fancy-type places. We stayed at a hotel in Tonopah. It was three or four stories high. The emergency escape system, if you had a 

fire, was the center of every floor was cut out about six feet in each direction, and it 

had a 2x8 [inch board] laid across the rails on both sides and a rope. So ifthe place 

caught on fire, you crawled out on the 2x8, grabbed the rope-it had knots in it so you 

wouldn't slip-and let yourself down to the first floor. Talk about unclean conditions. 

55 
Edwards is Long Hop Take one powerless X-15 1 a host of recovery 


personnel and equipment, a 335-mile_trek across 


some of Nevada and California's most historical 


terrain, and you have an interesting account of 


the problems involved in bringing back the X-15 

when the engine fails to opera~e. 

Lask week, for the first tiiDe since the pro­


ject began almost three years ago, the X-l5's en­


gine malfunctionetl after launch and the pilot, 


Pete Petersen, set the research vehicle down on 


Mud Lake, near Tonopah, Nev. 


Fortunately, this possibility had been forseen by project officials, and an emergency crew 

was waiting on Mud Lake. However, there still 

remained the problem of getting the X-15 back to 

Edwards. Necessary recovery equipment was flown to 

the scene and a crane was -·brought from nearby 

Nellis AFB, Friday morning, a day and a half 

after the emergency landing, the caravan was on 

its way back, traveling down Highway 95 to Beatty then through Stovepipe Wells, Emigrant Gap, Trona 

and Johannesburg.

Since the California Highway Patrol decreed 

the X-15 couldn't travel after ~ p.m., the crew 

spent the night in Trona, _arriving_at Edwards on· 

Saturday before noon, apparently none the worse 

for wear. NASA photographer Gene Childress accompanied 

the caravan, recording the photographs with this 

article. Petersen? He was back at Edwards in an Air 

Force C-130 shortly after the landing. Incidentally, this was scheduled to be Pete's last mission in the X-15 since he is due to report to 

Miramar Naval Air Station in San Diego next month. 

However, there is a possibility he may get a sec­

(Cont. page 4) 

ond chance, provided the No, 1 X-15 can be readied for flight prior to Feb, 1. 

Personnel associated with the X-15 project 

threw a stag party for Petersen in Rosamond follo~ing his '"record" three-minute flight, As a 

go1ng-away gesture, he was presented with a movie 

camera, projector and screen, 

Return of an X-15 

from Mud Lake. 

(E-7814} 

56 
\\ Use or Lose " Leave Reminder 

Federal leave policy provides 

that annual leave can be accumulated to a maximum of 30 days (240 

hours) which can be carrie'd over 

from O'ne leave year to the next. 

Balances in excess of the above 

will be lost as of the end of the 

leave year. 

For The Day .... 

(from Flight International) 

In view of the plans for a Mach 3 

supersonic airliner, the traditional 

military lead in speed performance 

may be usurped by the airlines. 

Pilots are now saying that they get 

their Mach 1 pin in the F-100, 

their Mach Z pin in the F- 104 and 

that they will get their Mach 3 pin 

in economy-class with TWA. 

-Z­

traditional flight research role with the new demands of a lunar landing. The craft t

resulted was the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle (LLRV), an assemblage ofpipes, 

rockets, and a jet engine that was less like an airplane than a flying steam calliope. 

59 
NACA 33 - Edwards Rocket Base 1 (tw'o i~) 

In a game that saw 26 men go to )lat in the 

:first inning--the :first 13 men scoring--end 

17 men in the second inning as the boys really 

teed-o:fi' on some slow-ball pitchers, the NACA 

wrapped this one up in a hurry, By mutual 

agreement, the game was called and f.ori'eited 

a1'ter an hour and a hal:f. The same team 

that had lost only 4-1 to' North American two 

days earlier just couldn •t find the stopper 

as the MACA pounded out some 26 hits, includ 

ing a number of homers and triples. 

North American 9 - XACA 8 

--In a good1 -c1ose ball· game--the lead was 

either tied or exchanged six t:illles--that was 

highlighted by a top-of-the-seventh MACA tworun rally, making the score 8-7, the :RAeA 

lost its.secolld game of the season as NAA 

scored·2 runs in the. last of the seventh to 

win 9-8. Bryant, Holleman, Musick, and Pengilley, along with others, did· well at the 

plate. Bill Purr., the losing pitcher, was 

relieved by Jim Newman in the seventh. 

SIDELIGlfl'S: Leading extra-base slugger so 

far is Bryant with 3 homers, 1 triple, and 5 

doubles in 18 times at bat. · 

l L R V Ej e c t 1on S·eat 

Unde~goes Testing 

Leaplng up in the air from a 

cloud of smoke and belching fire 

out of its seat, . a human-sized 

·~Ummywas 1c;;.~tapulted up last week 

1n a demoas"!i~-M~n of an ejectionseat system. Bullt·'b.y. ~Weber Aircraft Corporation th~· 'e· t" . • Jec 10n 

seat Wlll be used in the Lunar 

L~nding .R_esearch Vehicle that 

wlll be deliv~rea.to the Center this 

spring. 

The '!-~~onstration dramatically 

showed th~';zerp,.o. speed-zero alti­

..tude capability''''""·d.f.·:·:"'f···.·;,·'"· ·~ : ,:t,P9." • .•system. 

From a statioBii,ry 'p~sition on the 

g~ound, ·~f1~;i!1.llfl~Y was lifted to a 

~~gh enoug~;,aHitude that:~j.tabled 

¥m to sepa!.ate frQrn the ·seht.and 

<illowed his f#~~iite to open fully. 

fie then deif<:;;~nded slowly to the 

~round. · 

. The wl:t"ole time sequence was 

re·ss than/~'-·minute. •, 

60 
?ittm~~ :~;·; :~~~~-=:~in~ :~aft _include 

Systems Divisio;, • 0 assJ.gned to 

with Fli.ght o · '.and Ronald J. Wilson, . peratlons. 

704 NEAR READY.,. 

Vince Marcalus head 

Data·Processin' B Of the Programming 

of the IBM 704g rha~ch,. reports installa­ . mac lne lS near completion lS expected to accept the 704 . . • next two weeks ••• (X-PRESS ho WJ.thl.n the 

feature article on the 704 f pes to pre~are a or the next l.ssue.) 

fiRST CHILD ••• 

Genevieve and E M 

Control Branch) a~ 1 ?ntoya ( t1anned flight 

child, Kevin Jos:r~ ;amlng over their first 

in at 5 lbs 3 oz p 'd orn Feb. 19 •• ,Kevin came • • an was 19" long. 

Bell Studying Simulator 

Resul~s are expected next week from BelLAircraft Corp. concerning the design and development of a lunar landin~ sinulator to be 

used in conjunction with Project Apollo. 

FRC recently awarded Bell a $50,000 study 

contract to submit a proposal for such a simulator. Results of the study will be incorporated in a proposal being prepared by iiubert ~~. 

Drake, Advanced Projects Office, which will be 

presented to NASA Headquarters and Manned 

Spacecraft Center next week. 

Donald R. Bellman, head of the project, 

Lloyd J. Walsh, contracting officer, and Gene 

Matranga, aerospace technologist, recently rnturned from the Bell Corporation in Buffr 

N.Y. where they discussed the contract and ~. 

sign concepts for the simulator. 

lunar Res eo r c h Vehicle 

Engine Tests In Progress 

A CF700 turbofan engine has 

begun a series of vertical test runs 

at the General Electric plant in 

Lynn, Massachusetts in preparation to being installed in NASA1s 

Lunar Landing Research Vehicle 

with minor modifications, this is a 

basi'c J85 turbojet engine that delivers slightly over 4, OOOpounds of 

take -off thrust. 

The engine will be delivered to 

the Bell Aerosystems Company 

who is prime contractor on the 

Lunar Landing Research Vehicle. 

This engine will be used to provide 

vertical lift equal to five-sixths of 

the vehicle's gross weight. By 

counteracting the portion of the 

earth's gravity represented by 

weight, a comparable effect of the 

moon's gravity can be simulated. 

The lift for the remaining partion of weight will be provided by 

small rocket engines, similar to 

those employed on the X-15. These 

will be pilot controlled. 

Delivery of the vehicle to the 

Flight Research Center is expected 

in the Spring of 1964. 

was done by Drake at the High-Speed Flight Station

Unlike the other studies, Drake and Carman looked not only at an initial research air

craft, but also at a complete five-phase hypersonic research program that would lead 

development of a winged orbital spacecraft. One concept they envisioned was of a la

launch aircraft powered by five large rocket engines. Carried on the launch aircraft's 

back would be a smaller research aircraft with five smaller rockets. The combination 

would take off and climb to the planned launch speed and altitude. The smaller vehic

would be released to conduct its research mission. 

Their report was submitted to NACA Headquarters in August of 1953. Dr. Hugh L

Dryden, the NACA director, and Gus Crowley, one of his deputies, rejected the prop

al as too futuristic. In retrospect, the concept was beyond both the technological state 

of the art and the political realities of the time. But their concept of a two-stage wing

vehicle would continue to influence ideas about reusable space vehicles. Years later, 

shuttle concepts of the late 1960s and early 1970s would be very similar to the vehicl

63 
manager. Bellman, 

Ken Levin of Bell 

Aerosystems 

(center), and Flight 

Research Center 

Director Paul Bikle 

examine an earlyconcept model of 

the ungainly craft. 

(E-8679) 

that Drake and Carman had imagined nearly two decades before. Their idea of a multiphase effort to achieve piloted orbital flight reflected the conventional wisdom of the 

time, which held that spaceflight would be an extension of aviation. 

This perspective was reflected in the "round 1, 2, and 3" program concept. Round 1 

was the X-1, D-558-II, and X-2 research airplanes, the X-15 would be Round 2, carrying a pilot to the edge of space, while the Round 3 X-20 Dyna-Soar would achieve 

orbital flight. Inherent in this approach was the implication that human spaceflight was 

a distant possibility, and in such a scenario it would take a great deal of time to develop, 

test, and fly each vehicle and repeat the process for the next step toward space. 

The process by which humans became a space-faring civilization, however, turned 

out very differently, both in terms of technology and in the time frame required for 

success. Small, simple capsules became the vehicles that first took humans into space, 

launched using converted ballistic missiles. The time frame would not be one of decades, but rather of only a few years. The launch of the Soviet satellite Sputnik 1 in October 1957, followed by the orbiting of cosmonaut Maj. Yuri Gagarin in the first piloted 

spacecraft, Vostok 1, in 1961, accelerated the process. Faced with the Soviet Union's 

lead in space, and the resulting political climate in the United States, President John F. 

Kennedy decided that America would have to directly challenge the Soviets in space. 

He chose a goal of landing a man on the moon within the decade of the 1960s. 

Well before Kennedy announced the lunar goal, however, it had been apparent to 

many within NASA and the aerospace industry that the moon would be the next logical goal for the space program. The initial funding request for Apollo had been made in 

1960, with a lunar landing as the program's eventual goal. This was a year before any 

human had gone into space. 

How to put a man on the moon was also an open issue. A preferred approach was first 

to build a space station, which would house an assembly crew. The crew would build 

64 
was used for Apollo. The Command and Service Module carried the crew to and fro

the moon, while the Lunar Module made the actual lunar landing. This division allow

the spacecraft to be optimized for specific roles. The alternative was to build a single 

spacecraft for multiple roles, which posed many problems from engineering and ope

tional viewpoints. 

As the 1960s were beginning, none of this was clear. It was, however, clear that 

numerous skills, such as rendezvous and docking of two spacecraft, had to be master

before a man could go to the moon. The most basic of the challenges was how to ma

the landing itself. In the following interview with Dr. Hunley, Drake discussed his r

in meeting those challenges. 

A: [The 1960s], of course, was a period when all sorts of exciting things were going 

We were concerned about the starting of the Apollo program. The X -15 was operatin

There were several meetings in the middle of the year, just from some of the work o

one group that I was on the ad hoc group for manned lunar landing by rendezvous te

niques. It was the one that ended up recommending the lunar orbit rendezvous [ meth

od]. But preliminary to this, we had done some work on rendezvous .... In looking at 

the outset, [in] the early '60s, we didn't really know whether the big mission was go

to be a space station or lunar [landing] or whatever. And looking over these, rendezv

was a big problem area that we could expect for any mission, so [we had] an outline 

what we thought the Flight Research Center could do in the various parts ofthe luna

mission from the boost phase, parts of which we could almost simulate with the X-1

pilot control, and zero g. X -15 tests could address concerns about re entry, low LID 

over drag] vehicles, that sort of thing. We went through all of these and had proposa

for work on all of them. 

Well, [Chester] Wolowicz, [Ed] Videan, and I had done some simulation of the ren

dezvous problem in late 1959, I think, or early 1960. It was recorded in a TM [techn

memorandum]. So we were looking at various things, and one rather idiotic proposa

that I put together was a ground simulation of orbital rendezvous problems using a 

ground effect machine out on the lakebed. Do it at night when you had nothing for re

erence except lights and stars. It was fine, it would be a pretty reasonable cost-excep

there was always too much dust. 

When the lunar program was chosen, it was obvious we hadn't thought too much 

about takeoff and landing of the vehicle on the Moon, and it was of interest because 

of being in a totally different environment in terms of gravity. So it was more or less 

logical to think of some way of simulation in flight. Being a flight-test center, we did

consider anything else but to simulate it in flight. I looked at it that, at first, maybe w

need two or three jet engines supporting the vehicle. My initial thought was we wou

take a complete mock-up of whatever they were going to land on the Moon and use 

that. A few back-of-the-envelope calculations indicated no way were we going to be 

able to do that. The estimated weight was somewhere in the order of 12,000 pounds 

so. To get that kind of thrust and the kind of control that you would need would requ

several engines. The more engines you had, the more chance of failure, and you wer

65 
g pppy gp

And they made the preliminary results of the study, basically what I had been doing 

before. Now, at this time period I was not there. I was back east in this ad hoc group 

oflunar landing rendezvous study. I was there from the first part of June [1961] until 

sometime in July. 

This really cranked up a lot of interest in the whole problem both of rendezvous and 

the lunar landing. And initially they said, 'Well, come back a year from now; we'll talk 

about it.' But after about two or three months there was a lot of interest. Langley had 

their big facility that they were using as a simulator and the pilots thought it might serve 

engineering purposes, but it certainly didn't give them the simulation that they wanted. 

Initially, I wasn't enthusiastic enough about it to actually put anything in writing. I don't 

think [there were] any descriptions of the simulator until we got to the point where we 

had convinced our own management that it could be a viable program. 

The big excitement of that time, in 1960 and early 1961, was in rendezvous, because 

they had not decided how the mission was going to be done. I kid around that they 

didn't know whether they were going to the Moon by train or by truck. In our study we 

looked at this rendezvous where you'd fire off a half dozen big rockets and assemble 

something in orbit and then go to the Moon and land on the Moon and take off on the 

Moon and come back. One of them, the lunar orbit rendezvous, which was the one that 

was ultimately chosen, was not initially favored. It came out third after Earth rendezvous and direct ascent rendezvous, but cooler heads finally prevailed. 

When we were looking at this, the idea [was] getting off six of these great big rockets-not the size of the Saturn V, but the size of the Saturn l-in a short length of time. 

They were lined up like telephone booths on the launch pad. Well, now we can't even 

predict when the Shuttle will go off within a day or so; how could we count on getting 

six of them off and then rendezvous and assemble? 

We were much more in favor of hooking up two small pieces that come up together; 

you have one thing to do. Anyway, that was the subject of a lot of study before they 

finally chose the procedure they did. I think everything was going on at the same time. 

They were doing decisions on Apollo. They were doing decisions on which simulator to 

use, which companies. We were flying the X-15 at the same time. So that loaded us up. 

And, of course, in 1961, the Russians were orbiting their Gagarin flight. Well, of course, 

they filed for a record. The FAI-the Federation Aeronautique Intemationale-certifies 

records; their regulations and rules didn't have anything to cover this. 

So they had a big meeting in Washington. I attended it, and I think [Wendell] Stillwell 

was with me, to review the FAI certification process. Well, they put together a tentative group of regulations, and the Russian flight didn't satisfy any of them, or very few. 

They wanted to certify one orbit. He hadn't completed an orbit because he landed short 

of the takeoff point. The requirements were that they couldn't throw away any of the 

airplane or the vehicle. You had to land in the vehicle. He didn't land in the vehicle; 

he parachuted. They had to give a complete description of the vehicle. They didn't say 

anything. So it's right in the middle of all of the rest ofthe stuff that's going on, just 

another thing. 

We didn't have any feeling ofbeing overworked because it was one of the cases of66 
A: Yeah. And this was after the basic approach that we were interested in had been 

chosen. This was the first time we were willing to commit to it in a drawing. It didn

come out anything like that. See, this was January of '62, and that was well after. It 

well after most ofthe discussion here, January '62. We were just ready to talk to Be

on that. The work statement from Bell was sometime in March ofthat year. The gen

idea was right, but it got more practical. 

Nobody knew what the thing was ultimately going to look like. This is the final 

vehicle. This is a little bit more complex. But the considerations ofpracticality mad

the thing considerably more complicated. For example, on our initial sketch we just 

assigned weights in making the analysis to come up with approximate size. Here, th

have to consider the actual thing and balance the vehicle. We avoided all that by put

everything right in the center. 

Q: The original drawing was much more elegant looking than the ultimate "flying b

stead." 

A: Right. And it's the same way, any time you do it on the back of an envelope; you 

put boxes in for various things, a simple thing like the ejection seat, but it had to sav

the pilot even ifthe thing was upside down and 30 feet offthe ground. These kinds 

specifications led to an extremely complex system. 

Q: Now, the process you've been describing makes it seem like it's accurate to say t

this program for the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle did originate there at Dryden-

A: I should qualify that. Like any idea, people that are involved get the same idea 

around the same time everywhere. The problem was there and the need to attack it, b

it was not evident until the decision was made that we were going to go ahead and d

this. Everybody has something to do, everybody's busy. So you don't do unnecessar

things until you can see a need that has to be fulfilled. And, of course, we can make 

studies, do them on our own time and all that sort ofthing. But if it's something that 

involves hardware, then you have to have an ultimate mission in mind or it has to be 

inexpensive that you can virtually do it on your own time. 

The initial reaction control handling quality was done that way [in the late 1950s]. 

We built an Iron Cross in the hangar. This took, maybe, a hundred hours and some 

effort in the shops to build the thing. But we could see a need for it because the X-15 

was coming and [so was] the F-104 reaction control airplane. So we did have some 

justification, but not enough justification to build a whole vehicle for that. Actually, t

X-15, F-104, and so forth were the research vehicles that could and actually did lead 

to some investigations of handling qualities for the space vehicles. But I would say I 

would have been surprised ifthe same thing had not occurred to other people at abou

the same time. 

Q: Well, in fact, aerospace historian Dick Hallion, in a book on Dryden, mentioned a 

Dr. A.A. Griffith [in England] who had a "flying bedstead" earlier than this. 

67 
really, the development of handling quality under this one-sixth-g situation. I don't 

know that this would be a make-or-break problem. I think the landing on the Moon 

would have been done even if we hadn't built the simulator. I think having the simulator, however, gave the pilots a lot more confidence, and probably-may well have 

given them a better combination of control authority and so forth than they would 

have had without it. 

Q: That's certainly what Neil Armstrong indicated. Now, how much of the actual design 

came from Bell and how much was conceived by the Dryden engineers? 

A: I think virtually all of the practical design was Bell's. Ifyou look at the progress 

reports, you'll get a good feel for that. I haven't gone through them recently but as I 

recall, there were redesigns. The initial engine was changed. They started out with the 

J 85 [engine]. Then they went to the CF 700, which was a fan version of the J 85. That 

introduced additional side forces, things like that. And it was the same way for the X15 and for the lifting body. To my way of thinking anyway, the ideal function ofNASA 

would be to set up the requirements: "What is this thing gonna do?" "How much power 

should it have?" Electrical power, for example-that kind of thing-and then leave the 

contractor alone. If he has problems, he can discuss them with NASA. For example, 

you can't, in the initial setting up of the specifications, anticipate everything, but when 

problems come up, the contractor has suggestions and they should be considered because he has probably a lot more hands-on experience with the hardware. Questions that 

are in the research area, NASA would be the one that should specify-that should do the 

recommendation and possibly even design the instrumentation, so there wasn't anybody 

any better and this sort of thing. But in terms of the actual flight hardware, it had to be 

the manufacturer, because ifyou aren't doing it, actually doing it hands-on, you don't 

know the problem, and you're liable to make a decision that could produce a dangerous 

situation. 

Q: In regard [to] the electronic fly-by-wire system that was used on the Lunar Landing 

Research Vehicle-was that something that was designed specifically for this vehicle, or 

was it more or less off the shelf? 

A: I can't answer. I don't recall. I would think that they went to a modification of an 

off the shelf piece of equipment, but I don't know. I would be surprised if there were 

not an off the shelf piece of equipment that would work over the extremely low speed 

flight range that we were working, but I can't remember. See, when they were working 

with the contractor, I was no longer involved in it except peripherally. Don Bellman 

was managing the program, I recall, and these questions will all come up with him. My 

involvement was relatively small. I got the progress reports, so I knew generally what 

was going on, but I didn't participate in the actual program or its progress. 

Q: I understand that Wayne Ottinger was the rep at the Bell plant for NASA, and he 

68 
Q: Of course, we did lose one of the Lunar Landing Research Vehicles with Neil A

strong as pilot and two of the Lunar Landing Training Vehicles [LLTV]. 

A: Interesting, because on the basis of number offlights per vehicle and so forth [th

LLRV/LLTV] was probably the most dangerous vehicle we operated. I'd say the pa

gliders were the most crash prone, but they crashed so slowly that nobody got hurt. 

from the number offlights that were made and the vehicles lost-this was a very diff

vehicle to design for its survival. You worried more about the survival of the crew. 

Q: We lost three out offive. No one was [killed]. 

A: I did a survey when we were just planning the X-15. We had a big argument with 

Kelly Johnson in the aerodynamics committee because his view was that flying the 

X-15 mission with an unmanned vehicle would be less expensive, safer, and you'd 

more information. We had a big roundtable argument on that. Then in the course of 

period of time I did surveys on the record from some of these missiles-the Regulus 

I and Regulus II; Lockheed's X-7, for example-that were being held up as example

NASA research 

pilot Joe Walker 

during an early 

LLRV flight. At this 

time, the vehicle 

had side panels, 

which protected the 

pilot from hydrogen 

peroxide droplets. 

(ECN-453) 
of the kind of thing you'd be in competition with. The Regulus had something like 

250 flights, total, experience with the vehicle. The maximum flights with one vehicle 

were something like 1 O-re lying on memory now-and the average was three flights 

per vehicle. The minimum was zero. And they used 150 vehicles to get 250 flights. Of 

course, they had some left over. And the X-7, Kelly Johnson's pride and joy, had a better record, but it was limited-still a very limited program, something like 14 vehicles or 

something like that. I don't remember. And none of these covered things like piloting 

problems, stability and control as it relates to the pilot. So we went through those sorts 

of things. But even those missiles had better records than the LLRV. So it was basically 

a very risky vehicle. 

Q: I think I mentioned that Neil Armstrong said he was never comfortable flying it, but 

he was certainly glad he had. 

A: I think that was one of its virtues, because you didn't relax, and of course, the flight 

period that the vehicle was simulating was a very limited time, and you wanted to be 

completely keyed up for that two or-three minute period. I mean, you were fortunate it 

wasn't going to be three hours doing this landing, only two or three minutes. 

Q: You mentioned at the beginning of the interview that you had talked with Milt 

Thompson about the basic idea. 

A: Actually, I talked with all the pilots, because the pilot in a vehicle like this, to us, was 

the important part; and next to him came the things that were going to save him, like the 

ejection seat and stability augmentation and so forth. And we wanted any inputs that we 

could get from them. The pilots were closely involved in everything that we did relative to the lunar mission or to any of the spaceflight missions. Early in the spaceflight 

program, even before the lunar mission was selected as a mission, we had gotten the 

70 

provide better 

simulation of the 

view from the Lunar 

Module. Testing 

with this model was 

conducted at South 

Base, site of the 

original NACA unit. 

In the background 

are a B-47 and a 

B-52. 

(ECN-1582) 
A: Yes, but you design equipment for that; as a matter offact, that's what stimulate

first. We had the X -15 coming along and it had something like 4 g capability, horiz

tally. So there was concern about whether the pilot could control it or not with norm

controls, so we were going to design a hand controller for the X-15. So that proble

led us to doing simulations in the centrifuge, which resulted in the side-arm contro

the X-15. 

Q: Now, this period you're talking about in the centrifuge would have been what, 


around 1960 or the same time we're talking about for the-~ 

A: Earlier than that. I don't recall. I don't know whether there was a technical note 

out or a report at a conference. 

Q: Let me ask you a different kind of a question. You mentioned earlier that in the 

process of talking about this project you finally convinced the management at the F

Research Center to support this program. How did that come about? Was it by talki

with the center director orA: It was more a matter of-when we initially started, the decision had not been mad

about the rendezvous. We knew that any major mission that was proposed would in

volve the rendezvous. So that was the first thing; everybody thought, well, what can 

do in that. We ran static simulations using displays and so forth. Then the choice of 

lunar mission, of course-well, we had the question ofwhat are the various problem 

eas of that. And we had already looked at the acceleration and takeoff in the centrifu

We had done enough work with the rendezvous to know it was not a handling probl

so much as it was a mechanical problem. Everything was going to be done so slowl

it's wrong, you can back off and try again, back off a little bit and try again. It was n

problem working on it. 

But now this new thing was the lunar landing and takeoff. Takeoff didn't bother u

any because it was just a small acceleration compared to what we had been talking 

about before. So the only thing was the landing itself-what is lacking in the landing

Well, practice is one thing. And so I would hesitate to say it was a matter of convinc

ing our management, this sort of discussion about, 'Well, what can we put together t

would do this?' Well, discussion came after I had done some thinking about it and c

in with the idea ofwhat we could do. It didn't take much convincing. Paul was, 'We

can you do it?' It was that sort of thing. 

Q: That's Paul Bikle you're talking about. 

A: Yeah. I forget the time period when we flew the [M2-Fl] lightweight lifting body

but it was in there somewhere. That was one example also of something that could b

done relatively easily and inexpensively. Well, initially, we thought this might be eas

and inexpensive, but then when we dug into it a little bit, even to the extent of this fi

71 
airplane people, towing the [M2-F 1] lifting body is fine. I remember we had just moved 

to the new facility [built in 1954] and they hadn't connected us with the main runway 

yet. The lake was wet, and the R4D was supposed to take us to a conference. It was in 

the hangar. So they off loaded everything, real lightweight. I think they started it up at 

the hangar and took off right from the apron and then landed at the [Edwards] Main 

Base. So the ability to tow the [M2-F1] with the R4D was not a major decision on the 

part of the operations people. They had no question-'Go ahead and do it.' I always 

thought that the auto tow was much more logical. Automobiles were right up at the top 

of its performance to get that thing off the ground. 

72 

Never the most 

graceful of 

flying machines, 

the LLRV was 

nonethelss a critical 

tool in training the 

crews of the Apollo 

missions. 

(ECN-453) 
ofspace and were again a few weeks later. The process was 

repeated on a regular basis for nearly a decade. The aerodynamic, structural, and 

heating data produced by the X -15 research flights would serve as important guides 

in designing the type ofreusable spacecraft envisioned by the nation's aerospace 

leaders. The technological challenges of building such a spacecraft, however, were 

73 
better understanding of hypersonic aerodynamics and related phenomena was needed. 

Even before the launch of Sputnik, ideas were being formulated for how such a reusable vehicle might be built. The X-20 Dyna-Soar was a delta-wing vehicle that would 

skip on the atmosphere during re-entry, like a stone skipping on the water of a lake. In 

terms of design, the Dyna-Soar represented a traditional aircraft approach. A very different type ofvehicle began to attract attention at both the Ames and Langley research 

centers. The concept for it grew out of wind-tunnel tests ofthe high-speed aerodynamics 

of cone-shaped warheads. Researchers discovered that a warhead at a small angle of attack would generate a small amount oflift. 

Different approaches were taken to transforming this concept into an operational vehicle. At Ames, the cone was cut in half, giving it a flat top. A flattened aft fuselage was 

added to the original half cone. Vertical fins and other control surfaces were added so it 

could be flown. These Ames designs included the M-1L and the M-2. (The "M" stood for 

"manned.") The M-1L bore a cone shape with an inflatable boat tail that increased its liftover-drag ratio (LID) for landing. The M-2 also had a half-cone shape, but was much less 

bulky. Due to its large fins, the M-2 also was referred to as the "Cadillac." At Langley, 

researchers were considering a lenticular vehicle, which had a disk-shaped fuselage, fins, 

and horizontal stabilizers. 

These so-called "lifting body" concepts produced lift through airflow over the vehicle's 

74 

An artist's concept 

of the three original 

lifting bodies. From 

left are the M-2, 

the M-1 L, and the 

lenticular vehicle. 

(EC62-0175) 
the M2-Fllifting body had an LID of only 2.8 

The first step in lifting-body development was simply proving such a vehicle to b

capable of low-speed flight. In the early 1960s, the idea of an airplane without wing

received much the same reception from engineers as an airplane with a jet endinge 

had in the early 1940s. Air Force engineers had focused all their attention on winge

re-entry vehicles, like the Dyna-Soar, viewing lifting bodies as susceptible to contro

difficulties. The question became one of how to prove a concept that few accepted a

actually practical. 

Dryden engineer R. Dale Reed was among the few who believed that lifting bodies 

constituted viable space vehicles. A radio-controlled model airplane enthusiast, Reed 

free-flight tests ofa model lifting body as a means of selling the feasibility of the concept to center officials. He began with small, paper lifting-body models flown down th

hallways ofthe Flight Research Center headquarters building. Despite questioning loo

by other engineers, Reed was encouraged by these early flights ofthe paper models an

built a balsa wood free-flight model ofthe M-2 shape. Launching the model by hand, 

found that it had good stability. To increase its flight time, Reed launched the model fr

From left, Richard 

C. Edredge, Dale 

Reed, James 0. 

Newman and Bob 

McDonald with 

several of Reed's 

research models. 

Throughout his 

years at Dryden, 

Reed made 

extensive use of 

model aircraft to 

test new concepts. 

This began with the 

early lifting bodies 

and continued on 

through the X-33 

and X-38 vehicles. 

(ECN-2059) 
Inside the "Wright 

Bicycle Shop," 

from left, Grierson 

Hamilton, Bob 

Green, and Ed 

Browne work on the 

M2-F1 fin. 

(E94-042509-13) 

the roof ofthe three-story headquarters building. The final step was to tow the M-2 model 

aloft with a large radio-controlled model airplane, cut it loose with a timer and let the lifting body glide to a landing. Reed's wife, Donna, filmed the flights with a movie camera. 

Slowly, interest at the FRC began to build among other engineers. Dick Eldredge 

joined the effort, and worked with Reed to map out a low-cost piloted lifting-body flight 

program. Their plan was to build wood or fibreglass shells ofthe M -1 L, M-2, and lenticular shapes, which could be attached to a common steel-tube internal framework. This 

was a larger-scale extension of Reed's model tests. These would also be proof-of-concept 

vehicles, meant to test the stability of a lifting body at low speeds and during landing. 

The vehicles would not have the refinements needed for a vehicle operating at transonic 

or supersonic speeds. Instead, they would be initially towed aloft behind a high-powered 

vehicle. Once the vehicles' landing stability was proven, they would be towed to higher 

altitudes and speeds with the FRC's C-47. 

To gain the support of center managers, Reed felt one of the NASA research pilots 

should be involved with the project. He and Eldredge approached Milton 0. "Milt" 

Thompson, who was assigned to both the X-20 Dyna-Soar and the X-15 programs. 

Thompson had also been a pilot on the Paresev, a research aircraft built in house at the 

FRC to flight test the Rogalla Wing. The kite-like Rogalla Wing could be folded up 

like a capsule's parachute but, once deployed, could be controlled like a conventional 

wing. This allowed the capsule to make a horizontal landing. Reed and Eldredge asked 

Thompson if he would be willing to be their lifting-body pilot, assuming the program 

76 
Reed and Eldredge's test plan, together with Thompson's backing, convinced Bikle to 

support the lifting-body program. Eggers agreed to provide whatever wind-tunnel testing 

was required to develop the vehicles, providing Bikle took responsibility for their design, 

construction, and flight test. Thompson recommended that the first vehicle tested be the 

M-2 shape, as he believed it to be the most potentially viable. The vehicle was given the 

designation of"M2-F1" (for Manned 2-Flight 1 ). Its construction would be paid for out 

of the center director's discretionary fund. The vehicle was officially only a full-scale 

"wind-tunnel model," so NASA Headquarters would not need to be made aware ofit. 

But, as Bikle noted, ifthe model ''just happened" to end up being capable offlight, that 

would be something outside the control of center management. 

To keep the cost ofbuilding the vehicle down, an in-house effort, like that ofthe Paresev, would be undertaken. A comer ofthe fabrication shop was walled offwith a curtain, 

and a sign was put up reading "Wright Bicycle Shop." Here a team of engineers, working on their own time, began assembling the internal framework, metal fins, and other 

components. The wooden shell ofthe M2-F1 was built separately, by another group led 

by Gus Briegleb at the nearby El Mirage airport. Briegleb was one ofthe few people still 

manufacturing wooden gliders in the early 1960s. When Briegleb was asked by Biklehimself a champion sailplane pilot-to participate in the M-2 program, Briegleb was enthusiastic. While these two teams were assembling the vehicle, a third team examined its 

stability and control characteristics. The vehicle was finished four months after construction began. Total cost was about $30,000, far less than it would have cost had it been built 

by a contractor under more conventional funding circumstances. The next step was to be 

far more difficult: proving that an airplane without wings could fly. 

77 

Walter W. 


Whiteside 


ed by Dr. J.D. Hunley, July3 

"Whitey" Whiteside was one ofmany colorful characters to be found at the Flight 

Research Center during the 1960s and 1970s. The youngest of six children, he was 

overhauling cars by the age of 12. His was a hard existence, living with various famil

members, working from 2 to 6 a.m. washing dishes in a bakery, going to high school, 

and "causing havoc around town," as Whiteside later said. His brothers finally arrang

Whiteside's U.S. Army Air Corps enlistment in 1933. Initially, he was assigned as a 

mechanic at the Army depot on North Island in San Diego. He fueled and serviced 

aircraft coming out of overhaul, and flew as a passenger during check flights. 

With the outbreak of war in Europe, he was reassigned to a B-17 unit in the regular 

Army Air Corps. By Whiteside's own account, he was "into all kinds of hot water all 

the time," and bounced from place to place. A turning point in his life came in 1940, 

when he was part of an attempt to set a transcontinental speed record in a B-1 7. Amon

79 
and everything. Bikle was now working in flight test, in an of­ Andrew C. Nash - Instrumentation 

fice down the hall from Whiteside. Over the decades to follow, 	 Glynn E. Smith - Instrumentation 

Ernest A. Bahr -Flight Opns. Whiteside frequently worked with Bikle on various projects. Willirun P. Harris - Flight Opns.

When Whiteside became the assistant director of aircraft main­ Walter W. Whiteside - Flt. Opns. 

Joseph T. WBshko -Research tenance at Edwards Air Force Base, Bikle served as the techni­ Warren S. Wilson -Research 

cal director at the Air Force Flight Test Center at Edwards. Ozzella L. Stella - Research 


In September of 1959 both men again found their futures Mary A. Taylor - R;searoh 


Danielle L. Rosenberg - Admin~ inextricably linked. That year Walter C. Williams, who, as chief Continued next pa e 

of the High-Speed Flight Station, had overseen activities at the 

desert facility since the 1946 arrival ofthe first group ofNACA 

engineers, was named assistant director of the NASA Space Task Group. Bikle was 

selected to take over as the new chief of the High-Speed Flight Station, and, as he had 

before, soon brought Whiteside along. 


Whiteside played an important role in the early testing of the M2-F1 lifting body. The 


initial ground tows were made to check the vehicle's stability and control, without run­


ning the risks inherent in an actual free flight. The problem was that the M2-F1 weighed 


about 1,000 pounds, and had to be towed aloft at a speed of at least 100 miles per hour. 


None of the available trucks or vans had the necessary performance capacity to do the 


job. Whitey was also an enthusiastic hot-rodder and dirt bike rider, and he knew just the 


kind of vehicle that the engineers needed. 


Q: You were born in 1914 and grew up in the San Joaquin Valley. Is that correct? 

A: That is correct. 

Q: Now, about when you came to Edwards-do you remember the date, or at least the 

year? 

A: I was at Edwards several times before World War II, and after World War II, and 

during. 

Q: When was the last time you came here? 

A: The last time I came here was when I came back from Japan in about 1960. 

Q: But not 1959? That was when Paul Bikle came to Dryden.' 

A: Yes. 

Q: And you were already at Edwards. 

A: I was at Edwards. I was sitting across the desk from the colonel out there. I was the 

Whiteside joined NASA in March 1960. 

80 
Soaring Meet 

Leaving for Europe this week to : Well, do you remember about how long you worked for 

compete in the World Soaring Champ­ he Air Force that time at Edwards before Paul Bikle move

ionship was Paul Bikle, FRC director. nd called you over to NASA? Would it have been a coupl

Being staged in Cologne, Germa­ ears? 

ny, the glider meet will feature 

top pi lots from 27 countries, including two champion pilots from :A couple ofyears. Yes. 

the U.S. in addition to Bikle. 

Competing in the meet, which is 

: And you had indicated to me you wanted to give proper held every two years, will be teams 

from West Germany, Poland, Czecho­ redit to Paul Bikle. I wondered if you would just describe 

slovakia, Yugoslavia and England--­ im as a person and as a manager and describe your relatio

reported to be among the top coun­ hip with him over the years, and especially in the NASA tries in soaring. 

The championship will be held eriod. 


from June 4 to June 20 and will be 


judged on a series of "tasks" assi­


gned to performers by judges ea~h : Well, like I say, he was a civilian in our B-29 operating 

day. The meet is under sponsorshiP he islands out there, bombing Japan. Bikle was the kind o

of Federation Aeronautique lnternaerson that just knew how to do things, and people recogni

tionale. ----. Bikle who has been soaring ac­ im. It didn't matter if he wore civilian clothes or GI cloth

tively since 1947 and pursuing the r what. The point was that he was where the action was. H

hobby since 1934, won the West 

Coast as just that kind of a person. Started out life that way and Soaring Championship in 1959 


at a meet held at El Mirage Airport tayed that way. 


in East Antelope Valley. He also 


won the Southern California champ­
 ionshi~ : You worked very closely with Paul Bikle over the years

at Elsinore last year. 

ow you worked with him in his hobby as a sailplane pilo

wondered if you could just discuss how you and he got 

together on the sailplanes, and what you did together, and what your personal relation

ship with him was. 

A: Well, sailplanes, of course, had annual national and international contests. And Bi

would tell me months ahead oftime-or at least weeks ahead of time-that a contest is 

going to be in Elmira, New York this year, or it's going to be in Europe or wherever 

it is. And I would go home and deal with my family and arrange things. I would go 

wherever the contest was, and I would be his crew chief at these sailplane contests. O

occasion, for example, his wife and kids would get in the station wagon, and I would 

drive them from California to New York if that's where it happened to be. Then they'

get to go see all their folks, and I'd go with Paul and do the sailplane thing. I just wan

to point out that he won international contests as well as national. He was a worldrenowned sailplane pilot. And being tied in with the Air Force and NASA facilities ov

the years, he would modifY his airplane and his pressure suits. He set world altitude re

cords. He did all kinds of marvelous things with sailplanes. He was known worldwide 

for his sailplane capability. 2 

2 Whiteside's son, Bill Whiteside, remembers Bikle would pick a time to compete and 

other pilots would select times around that, as Bikle knew situation and weather. At one contes

when Bikle's tum came to fly, he said he would pass and picked a later time instead. There we

81 
yy g 

why he was doing it were behind him 100 percent. That's the 

way it seemed to me. I never saw or felt any dissatisfaction 

about anything he did. But he was a very great originator and 

a steady stick relative to methods of how to conduct flight test 

programs. He gave classes at the local schools about flight 

tests and engineering, and trying to encourage young people 

too. These were voluntary, free things that he did. 

Q: Was he the kind ofmanager that looked over your shoulder 

a lot and wanted to know exactly what you were doing and 

kind ofmade decisions for you? Or was he more informal and 

let you do your job, and just wanted to know what you were 

doing in a general way? 

A: Yes. He'd have a meeting of the minds somewhere down 

the track and say how are you doing, or what are you doing, 

and what are your plans, and so forth. I wouldn't say that 

he looked over anybody's shoulder, in my opinion. I was in 

a very privileged position with Paul Bikle for many, many 

years. And I may be biased in what I think. A lot ofyears 

have gone by. I'm in my eighties now. And looking back 

across Paul Bikle or looking back across life, I might see 

things a little different. 

Q: Well, let me ask the question a little different way. Did 

you ever hear any comments from your boss, Joe Vensel, as 

to whether Paul let him do his job pretty well or whether he 

supervised him pretty closely-anything like that? 

nau tique Inte rnationale (FAI) . This 

award, named after one of the first 

glider pilots, is to be made in 

ceremonies this fall in Mexico City. 

Announcement of the award was 

made by the National Aeronautic 

Association (NAA). 

The Linienthal award, soaring's 

highest honor, is presented once a 

year for remarkable sporting performance in soaring or eminent 

service for a long period of time. 

Mr. B ikle holds the world absolute 

altitude record of 46, 343 feet and 

a total altitude gained mark of 

42, 305 feet. Both of these glider 

records were established in 1961. 

A veteran of over 20 years as 

a soaring enthusiast, Mr. Bikle 

has competed in nine U.S. National 

Championships and represented 

this country twice in world competition. 

It was also announced by the NAA 

that the Montgolfer Award will be 

presented to balloonist Donald 

Pic card in recognition of his record balloon flights. 

The F AI will also present a 

r . ' award, in the form of gold 

medals, to the two Soviet Cosmonauts, Andrian Nikolayev and 

Pauel Popovich, for the first twin 

orbital flights last year. 

A: Paul had been Air Force for many years. Joe Vensel had been civil service. He came 

out here from Langley Field with everybody else. I loved old Joe dearly. I sat in the 

same office with him. I was his right arm. But obviously what was going on over at 

NASA and what was going on with the Air Force-naturally there would be differences 

of opinion about conducting things and whatnot. I don't ever recall him being disturbed, or quitting early, or anything like that. I think they respected one another. They 

gave each other differences of opinion. Ifthere was any conflict there or any overrun, I 

don't know. Looking back across all these years, I know there [were] hurt feelings and 

whatnot-Langley people coming out here, Air Force people meshing with them just like 

I did. I have no doubt that lots of people resented me. They thought I was the old man's 

favorite import or bat boy or whatever. They sent me out with a blank check to buy the 

no other times available, around the new one he chose, to which the other pilots might switch. 

His son asked, "Why did he do that?" and Whitey replied, "They don't call him 'the fox' for 

nothing." 

82 
attention. I was the fair-haired boy, ifyou want to know the truth. 

Q: Well, I didn't have any sense from them or anyone else that there was any real te

sion. 

A: He'd give you enough rope to hang yourself, whether you were instrumentation 

who you were. And then if he had to he'd stop and say, 'Hey, don't you think we ou

to re-think this?' And 'Let's sit down and talk about it.' I mean, he was a hands-on 

operator. But he didn't pay that much attention to instrumentation or the Motor Veh

Department. 

His primary interest was getting the job done-research and development. Houseke

ing, he had other people do that. And they had plenty of skilled people out there. Th

had wonderful people out there. I might have a minor disagreement relative to the m

they were using constructing something. But the machine shops and all that-they ra

their own business. They were tremendously capable people. And I thought the who

facility was a well-organized facility when I went over there. They all thought ofme 

the fair-haired boy that was the boss's kid and that I could do no wrong. So they kin

of gave me a wide berth until they found out that I was just a plain old worn-out GI 

loved to do things in the field ofresearch and development. 

Q: I wonder ifyou would describe De Beeler as a person and manager. How much 


dealing did you have with him? 


A: I had very little [contact] with him-not enough to really have an opinion. I don't 

think you take anybody that you meet when they're 45, 55, or 65 years old and expe

them to change much. I had managed Air Force people for many, many years at diffe

ent levels and in different types of functions ...I had no disagreement with De Beeler

But I can understand that he felt .. .like time was passing him by. Bikle was smart 

enough to use Beeler to run him back and forth to NASA Headquarters, and gave him 

probably a free hand relative to functional management and whatnot. But Beeler mig

have felt left out in that because there probably was a time when he came from Lang

Field that he ran flight test. I don't know. I don't know about the interpersonal conflic

ifthere were any. I thought De was more of a pencil pusher, talk to Headquarters, and 

coordinate things, management functions. 

Q: I think that's right. 

A: Paul Bikle was research and development. He'd walk right in and sit down on a 

pilot's desk and cross his legs right up on his desk and sit there and get all the pilots 

around and talk about, 'How do you think we ought to do this?' This is my opinion. B

what I'm saying is that he was a hands-on person and Beeler was not. Beeler, because 

was Bikle's boy, never spoke to me but coming and going. I don't mean he didn't trea

me nice or that he didn't respect me or anything, it's just we didn't have anything goi

together, unless Paul was on vacation. 

83 
gp gy y g

[guy]. But he was older than me. I think that by the time Paul Bikle got 

to NASA, Joe wasn't too far from retirement, and he felt kind of hesitant about asserting himself much relative to his opinions. This is my 

opinion. And he was no dummy. He was a very bright man. I loved old 

Joe. But I think he was on his downturn somewhat to where he didn't 

feel like fighting back if he had much difference of opinion. This is my 

opinion of what it was like then. 

Q: You worked fairly closely with Joe Walker, I think. What can you 


tell me about him, and what kind of a person and pilot he was? 


A: Oh, I think he was tops. Joe Walker and I got along real fine. He 


would flare up with me or anybody. He was just a very vociferous ... 


Joe expressed himself. If he had it to say, he said it. And it was a 


delight being around Joe Walker. He would slam papers down on his 


desk and say, 'Damn it! I told him not to do that.' He was full oflife. 


Q: Well, he certainly has a reputation. How about Milt Thompson? He 

overlapped with you, I guess, pretty substantially. 

A: Yes. Milt had a tremendous capability in the area offlying. I've 


always had a great respect for him and his capabilities and whatnot, 


his sense of humor-everything about him, I liked. I liked Milt. We 


were very good friends. 

Q: What can you add to the score of Bill Dana stories or descriptions, 

or whatever you have to say? 

A: He was a Bakersfield boy. And my niece is in Bakersfield. My 

sister lived in Bakersfield. My nieces went to school with him. I was 

really pleased when they told me that they knew Bill Dana, because 

he's quite a guy. He's an outstanding pilot, thorough; research all the 

aspects of anything. He didn't go off half cocked. He looked at everything and got all the answers. I've got the highest respect for Bill 

Dana. He's a tremendous individual. 

Q: And I think you knew Tom McMurtry fairly well, didn't you? 

December 1 

BYE-BYE BEANIE night will 

be celebrated December 1 1 as the 

Center 1 s employees will gather to 

honor Joe Vensel, Chief of Flight 

Operations. Mr. Vensel will retire on that day after 32 years of 

government service. 

A special dinner has been 

planned for that night. It will be 

held at the Knights of Columbus 

Hall in Lancaster. A no -host 

social hour will begin at 6:30 and 

preceed the dinner. Entertainment honoring (?) Mr. Vensel 

will be presented following the 

dinner. 

The price of the catered. 

roast beef dinner is $3.00 per 

person. This includes a donation 

for a going-away gift for Mr. Vensel. 

Tickets may be procured from 

all time and attendance clerks <:ind/ 

or Betty Callister, Gertrude KE>llv. 

Boots McNally, Sandy Illian, B1i1 

Dana, Bruce Peterson, and John 

Mancke. 

A: He's so quiet and unassuming, or he was in those days. He's not going to blow his 

own bugle-somebody will have to blow it for him, is the expression I'd use. He's a 

tremendous individual. I wouldn't fault a one ofthose pilots. I wouldn't have any faults 

with any of them, myself. I thought they were all outstanding. 

84 
r----.1 SUGGEST 


SUGGEST 


~ SUGGEST 


out my boys to take care of the B-29 mothership. And he would go down and get th

X-1 people, whoever was involved. Then we'd all plan to go to the National to put 

aircraft on exhibit. It was Dayton, Ohio where the air show was that year. Well, I'd 

the B-29 ready. And the Bell or NACA people would mate the X-1 to the mothersh

So I'd fly the engineer's position. We didn't take any more people than we absolu

had to go to a national show, you know. I would have the right airmen with me to l

and unload the X-1 off the mothership. And say [the air show] was Vandalia, Ohio. 

We'd park it a way back against the fence where we wouldn't have anybody around 

We'd jack the mothership up and lower the X-1 onto the ground, pull it out from 

under the B-29, and then set the B-29 back on the ground. Then, when the show wa

over, we'd go reverse this operation.3 

Q: You weren't at Edwards at the time that Chuck broke the sound barrier, were you

A: Nope. I think I was still at Wright Field then. We all worked out of Wright Field. 

Even Chuck worked out ofWright Field. 

Q: But you didn't know him at Edwards at that time. 

A: Not really. Chuck was an 18-karat fighter pilot. And I was 

always in bombers. So our paths didn't cross until work put u

think. today together. 

how to Improve 

TOMORROW Q: Right. But you did have relationships with him then. 

t .. A: Oh, sure. Yes. He'd come to me and borrow my motorcycl

when I was on the flight line. I was a maintenance officer over 

the airport. He'd come to me because I had a Model A Ford an

he had one. And he might want a part for his or I might. But n

I didn't work with him. He was up in Fighter Operations there 

Edwards. We were both officers together. I guess we were prob

0 I'J_ 	 ably captains together and majors together. I don't remember t

sequence. 

He would come down and walk right in my office and tell m

'Whitey, we're going to drop next Tuesday.' And 'can you do 

this or can you do that.' But he did the same thing before I got 

there with a master sergeant named Don Plumleigh. There were 

functional people in the Air Force just like there were at NASA that were all woven 

together with Yeager and everybody, you know. I came out there after he had gone 

3 Bill Whiteside recalled his father describing flying with Yeager in a flying wing (eith

an XB-35 or YB-49). Yeager was relaxed, one earphone off, feet up, probably listening to cou

try and western music on the radio, and Whitey mischievously adjusted the fuel flow. Whitey 

had just made the change when Yeager came on the intercom and said, "Knock it off, Whitey.

Yeager just had an innate sense ofwhat the airplane was doing. 

85 
up at one o'clock in the morning and say, 'I'm in Sacramento. Come and get me.' Or 

'I'm in Schenectady,' or whatever. But it was a catch-as-catch-can-type operation that 

worked real good, I thought. 

..... Einar Enevoldson, Pilot's Offjce, 

Q: Right. Well, you lived in a fascinating era. Are there any other thinks Tony Hitzenhammer, Data Systems, 

memorable people you worked with at the Flight Research Center ha~ a funny name....... USMC 1/Lt. 


that you'd like to mention? John Bikle, son of Paul Bikle, Director's 

Office, has been awarded the Air Medal 

A: Okay. NASA types. Well, always Joe [Walker], of course. He for combat missions as a helicopter pilot 

was the most vocal and the most noticeable. I had the mother- in Vietnam ....... Departing the Center 

ship and he had a mothership. Before I went to NASA, I would last month was Jim Welsh, X-15 Research 

give him built-up wheels and tires or turbo superchargers, and Office....... Last month's Contrails 

they would bring [replacement parts] back to me. We interfaced reported the engagement of Larry McLain, 

with one another when we were all in the old South Base [area of Research Division. According to a recent 

Edwards]. I don't know about manpowerwise. I don't think we want ad, he is now selling his collection of 

went and worked on each other's airplanes. But we knew the guys Playboy magazines, 1961 - 1967...... . 

that drive up and down the flight line looking for tires. Whatever Major "Pete" Knight, has been notified 

they needed, we would give them. And when they got theirs, why, that he has won the Harmon Trophy for 

they'd give us back one. I don't recall any disrespect or hard feel­ his X-15 flights. He will receive the trophy 

ings or anything. There weren't that many people out here. And we from the President sometime later this 

all had to work. I put in many a night working all night-putting an year. . ..... Visiting in Hawaii last 

engine in, getting ready to do this or that. NASA did too. month were Juanita Taylor, Range Systems, to attend her daughter's wedding; 

Q: Okay. Let me ask you a different question. You weren't there Mr. and Mrs. Bill Dana, Pilot's Office, to 

but about a year. But how did the Center change in the year after deliver a speech; and Juanita, Proprietress 

Paul Bikle of a Rosamond business establishment. left? Did the way the Center operated change a lot? Or 

While there, the Dana's saw former X-15 did things pretty much continue the way they had except with a 

pilot Col. Bob Rushworth and his wife.

new director? 

Bob was on rest and recuperation leave 

A: from his present job of flying F-4's in I wouldn't have felt it or sensed it, I don't think, because I was 

Vietnam....... Jack Nugent, Flight

out of the loop after that. I was running the radios, talking to the 

Mechanics, has won the Exchange Coun­ pilots when they were flying, and doing whatever was necessary to 

cil's contest to name the Center's Cost be done around there. 

Q: Let me go back a little further to the beginning of your NASA 


career. You indicated earlier that there was a difference between working for the Air 


Force and working for NASA. Can you characterize how they were different, other 


than the fact [that] the one was civil service entirely and the other was a mixture of civil 


service and career officers and enlisted people? 

A: The floor mechanics and crew chiefs that I knew at NASA had been in the military 


at one description or another and the functions were very similar. They were coopera­


tive. They were eager. If anything, I sensed more willingness to get things done. And 


86 
ofrespect for the Flight Research Center the way I knew it. 

Q: Do you remember who were the directors ofmaintenance at the Flight Research 

Center during the years when you were there? 

A: Well, the overall foreman was Clyde Bailey. He came out here from Langley Fi

Who all he brought with him, I don't know. But I don't recall if he brought in local 

people or not. 

Rocket Seat Slated 

For M-2 Tested 

A realistic, however unsuccessful demonstration of the capabilities of the ejection seat that 

will be used on the M-2 vehicle 

was held last week at the USAF 

experimental track branch. 

The test, a contractual demonstration was to demonstrate that 

the various components would 

accomplish their required activities in the proper sequence. The 

required actions all performed, 

however, not in· the proper 

manner so that another demonstration will be scheduled for a 

later date. 

The system, made by Weber 

Aircraft Corporation of Burbank, 

California, was designed to have 

the capability to safely eject the 

pilot at speeds from zero to one 

hundred knots and at altitudes of 

ground level to 10, 000 feet. This 

range will cover the expected 

flight areas of the present M -2 

vehicle. 

The system consists of a standard aircraft ballistic ejection 

seat, already in use on the USAF 

T-37 aircraft, that has been 

modified to provide the NASA desired capability. In order to provide for zero altitude, zero speed 

ejection, a rocket catapult, .manufactured by Rocket Power, Inc., 

and a seat-man separator have 

been added. A standard 28 foot 

the safe desystem. 

The static test, conducted by 

Weber Aircraft, was an actual 

demonstration with the ejection 

seat and component parts mounted 

in a stationary vehicle. A standard dummy wearing the parachute was positioned in the seat 

to act as the simulated pilot. 

Seat ejection force was provided by the rocket catapult which 

boosted the seat and dummy along 

fixed guide rails to ensure proper trajectory. The total rocket 

burn time was approximately . 4 

seconds but this was sufficient 

enough force to eject the dummy 

to over two hundred feet above 

the vehicle. 

After ten inches of seat travel, 

the seat-man separator ignited, 

starting theprocess of separating 

the dummy from the seat. Approximately 5/8 of a second after 

catapult initiation, the dummy 

physically began automatic sepa­


ration from the seat. This action 


also served to pull the lanyard on 


the parachute which cStarted its 


deployment through the use of a 


pilot chute. 

However, instead of the intended man-seat separ.ltion, the 

dummy failed to separate soon 

enough from the seat resulting in 

a-late parachute opening. 

Had the test been completely 

successful, the dummy would 

have been safely descending in a 

fully operating parachute six and 

one-half seconds after initiating 

the ejection procedures. 
yy gy

The rockets, secured from the thing with Ed Videan and his communications people and U.S. Naval Station, China Lake, 

so forth. And I have nothing but great respect for the whole produce 240 lb s. of thrust and can 

facility-even the janitors. No kidding. be fired for 10 or 11 seconds. 

They use a solid propellant. 

The rockets will be mounted on Q: Yes. I guess you probably knew Jack Russell pretty well. 

the rear of the vehicle to be used 

at pilot discretion to cushion the 

A: Oh, sure. I've got great respect for that man. Great indi­ landing touchdown. 


vidual. That guy gave them a lot more than he got paid for, 


I'll tell you. He was a launch panel operator. He flew in the 


motherships. There was no extra pay for that or anything, just part of his job. 


Q: What were the living conditions like out here between 1959 and 1972? Had Lancast­


er grown very much from the early days by then? Was housing very readily available, 


or was it still pretty scarce? What was it like just living around here then? 


A: We transferred out here from Wright Field in 1950. And, there again, Paul Bikle said, 


'Whitey, would you come out to Edwards?' I was still in the military, and he had taken 


over the job as technical director. Bikle was in the Air Force side of the house. So we 


transferred out here from Wright Field. And there was no housing on the base. We just 


stumbled up on a little place in Rosamond that would do. The one in Rosamond was 


just four walls, and we were extremely grateful to get it. We lived there until they built 


housing on the base. The one that they built on the base was entirely suitable. We had a 


three bedroom. 4 

Q: And then when you moved to NASA, obviously you had to move off base, I pre­


sume. What kind of housing did you find then? 


A: Well, when I moved to NASA I went to Palmdale and bought a house. And so I can't 


really comment with any degree of knowledge or recollection about Lancaster. I think 


Palmdale probably had more vacancies than Lancaster. Now that's just a guess on my 


part. I didn't live here. I don't know. 

Q: And you've already commented on the period when you were in the Air Force, that 


there was a great deal of cooperation between NASA and the Air Force down at South 


Base. Did that continue after 1959? Was there still a lot of cooperation in the new facilities NASA occupied in 1954? 

A: Paul Bikle had been the head engineer at Edwards, working for the Air Force, when 


he moved to NASA. With him over there knowing everybody and with me over there 


knowing everybody back at the Air Force where I came from, I thought we had real 


Bill Whiteside said the address was 1401 Community. His father planted a cottonwood 


twig in the backyard and watered it, and it became the largest cottonwood at Edwards. 


88 

4 
The M2-F1 

rocket test fires 

its landing rocket 

on the lakebed. 

If the vehicle was 

descending too 

fast, the rocket 

would slow the 

descent. 

(E-10254) 

weren't they? 

A: Yes. And that's where Joe Vensel and Joe Walker and Paul Bikle came in at thei

shiniest, as far as I'm concerned. They blended the Air Force people right into our 

place. They willingly came over there and ate lunch and visited with us. And they 

the run ofthe place. This is my recollection-that we had a very cohesive Air Force

NASA relationship for many years there. Originally there was maybe looking aska

once in awhile. But NASA flew chase for Air Force and Air Force flew chase for 

NASA. It was interwoven, in my opinion. 

Q: And I guess you retired about at the end of the lifting body program. So you exp

enced that whole program. 

A: Yes. 

Q: Would you say that the lifting body program was the 

highlight of your NASA years, or did you have much to 

with the X-15 flights in those years? 

A: Well, up until Vensel left I was his right arm. He'd say

'Why do you do this? Why do you do that?' So I would g

talk to somebody or go down [to] the hangar or go to Lo

Angeles. I was his go-fer, you might say. 

With the X-15, I might come in at three o'clock in the 

morning and check out weather. I'd go out and check the 

lakebeds the day before a flight. We'd get in the old Goon

Bird [R4D] and make sure people hadn't exploded a bom

where we intended to land. I was the out-of-the-area guy 

kept my finger on the pulse of equipment available to us 

make a successful flight. I used motorcycles and airplane

and cars and everything else, so that Joe Vensel could come in at four o'clock in the 

morning of a launch flight and say, 'Whitey, is everything ready?' And I'd say yes. S

was the fixer-upper, make things happen in the facility or [the] launch.5 

Q: And did you go out to the distant lakebeds where landings were made sometimes

and check those out? 

A: Oh, Joe Vensel had to know the status of those landing lake beds. The day before, 

had to know it so I could tell Joe Vensel. I might telephone or I might drive out there

5 Bill Whiteside said that his father would sometimes come home and say, "I have a r

problem taking my pay today." He'd been out checking the lakebeds or flying in the C-47. O

day he came home and said he had an especially hard time taking his pay, as he had flown in 

backseat of an F-104B. He was a big fan of Kelly Johnson and the F-104, thinking it was the 

greatest plane around. He was about 50 then, and it was a tremendous thrill. 

89 
Or Bill Dana and I or most anybody might fly 

out there and see. It was my responsibility. I was 

responsible to Joe Vensel. 

STEP ON IT WHITEY, HE'S GAINTNG C)N US!! 

Q: Mud Lake and places like that? 

A: Yes. I would go out there with a radio vehicle. And when I got there and the runway 

was dry enough to land on for tomorrow's flight, we'll say, I'd immediately call him on 

the radio and say, 'Schedule it.' I was the eyes and ears of off-base facilities. 

Q: I think you indicated that you drove just about all the Pontiac tow flights for the M2­

Fl. So they must have not done that when they were flying the X-15, or you couldn't 

have done both things. 

A:You couldn't do them at the same time. It just isn't logical to have those two things 


going together at the same time. 


Q: Do you remember any other programs that were going on between 1969 and 1972 


when you retired, besides the lifting body? 


A: I always raced desert motorcycles. I rode motorcycles back and forth to NASA. I've 


always been a go-fast nut. So when it came time to tow the M2-F1-Bik1e came to me and 


said, 'Whitey, we need a tow car to tow the lifting bodies.' I had followed the races and 


I knew where all the shops were. I'd had cars of my own that went fast and motorcycles 


that went fast. So I broke loose and just took off and went all over southern California 


looking for what can put the most horsepower to the ground so that it can tow something 


out on the lake bed. And the Mexican road race had been won by Pontiac [for] two years at 


this point in time. And I knew Troy Rutman and all the guys that were involved with this 


kind of thing. 


So I made the rounds. And I ended up in the Motoday building down in North Hollywood with the Pontiac West Coast management staff. And I said, "This is not for publica­


tion, but the government wants to buy a tow vehicle ofthe caliber that you've been letting 


your out stations build and publicize. We can't publicize this. We want to buy a car and 


90 
hour or 130 miles an hour. We only bought Kennedy International....... Winnin

three or four sets, so you could change 

them. In 30 minutes you could make the 

Pontiac tow something 100 miles an hour or 150 miles an hour. I took it and had roll b

put in it so people could go with me-or so at least I could go. 

So I talked to Troy Rutman and I explained what we were doing. 'We're going to to

things out in the boonies. And the engine's going to get tired.' 'How soon is it going to 

get tired?' He said, 'Well, of course, you know we only run them one Sunday, and the

we take them apart and put them together again.' And I said, "We can't afford that. Wh

can I do horsepowerwise, tirewise, brakewise, coolingwise, transmissionwise-what ca

do to make this thing start up the biggest part ofthe time without spending a lot ofbuc

on it? We can't publicize it.' So he gave me a whole lot ofpoints and I followed throu

on them. And that's how come I had two sets of tires, and so forth. But the Pontiac go

tired after we made a certain amount ofruns with it, just like he told me it would. And 

when it got tired, I pulled the engine out and sent it in and had it done by them. And th

brought it right back up to snuff. By this time it's getting kind of grumpy. And you do

want to be towing a guy and have him in the air and have the engine blow up on you. 

you anticipate things like this. 

M-2 Begins Flight Test Program; So I did all this. And I drove the 

7 Successful Flights Completed ontiac doing various things. [Then] 

Flight testing of a wingless ve­ vehicle is the attainment of max- ourse, the Gooney Bird started towin

hicle, referred to as a lifting body irnum ratios of useful volume to he M2-Fl, and the Pontiac was throu

has begun at the Flight Research surface area in order to reduce 

c·enter this past month. The tests structural weight, as well as to re­ o we put it over in the corner and ha

are being conducted by center duce problems of aerodynamic 

engineers to study the low speed heating while reentering the earth1 s o further use for it. Except once in 

flight characteristics of the ve­ atmosphere from a space mission. while they would say something like

hicle, called the M-2. These vehicles, which have apThe vehicle being tested is a plication to space ferry missions, 'Hey, Whitey, go down to the far end 

lightweight research vehicle, how­ are capable of maneuvering flight he base where Fitz is going to take o

ever, its configuration is represen­ and of horizontal landing at a pretative of a class of reentry vehicle determined location on land. The ith the lifting body."6 

that has been under development in vehicle under test was planned by 

NASA research centers over a personnel of the Flight Research 

period of about six years. The ob- Center in accordance with a con- :That would be [Fitzhugh L.] Fulto

jective sought through this class of (Continued on page 3) 

resume? 

A: Yes. Fitz would come to me and tell me, 'I want you to be down there and I wan

you to track me, because I want to check my acceleration.' So I'd have the Pontiac 

down there with 165-mile-per-hour capability. I'd be right out on Fitz's wing when 

he'd release his brakes. He'd look over at me and beep his radio. And the Pontiac ha

a radio, of course. And I thought originally that, boy, I can stay with him for about 

halfway to liftoff. I was totally wiped out by how fast that big B-52 took off with so

thing hung under the wing. The Pontiac didn't have a chance. By the time that I got 

6 Bill Whiteside recalled watching the car being built. It had the skin offwhen it wa

being worked on. He also recalled a time when his father took the headers off and started up 

car in the driveway of his home. Because ofthe sound made by the engine, the entire neighb

hood came out. 

91 
, g, py 

hero. He's the way that they ought to be built. 

Q: But he did fly a lot ofthe lifting body mothership flights? 

A: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Tom McMurtry, I think, liked that part of it too. 

And he flew with Fitz a lot. Very gifted bunch of pilots. Of course, 

they were hand-picked over and over until they finally made their 

selection. Bill Dana would have to be way up at the top and Fitz 

Fulton would have to be at the very top in my book. I don't want to 

hurt anybody's feelings, but Fitz fought wars and retired from the 

Air Force. And Fitz is just outstanding. I've never known anybody 

that I respect as much as I do him-in all areas. 

Q: Okay. I think we've got most ofthe Pontiac story, unless there's 


more you want to say about that. 


A: Only that we used it for many purposes after it no longer was 

needed. So for the lifting body, people would do different tests with 

it, like tire testing for one thing. You don't run many tires to 200 

miles an hour and then 60 miles an hour. And we used it, like I said, 

for the pictures. They would send me out if it was doubtful about a 

lakebed at Tonopah, Nevada or wherever. They'd tell me to jump in 

the Pontiac and go out there. I could come in on the side roads and 

drive stakes in the ground and see ifthe lake bed was suitable or not, 

rather than exposing an aircraft to go out there and land and maybe 

get stuck. We had an airplane get stuck out there once. 

Q: And whatever finally happened to the Pontiac? 

A: They put it out on Wallops Island [Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, Virginia]. They had wet and dry runway tests back there. 

And they'd put different tires on the Pontiac and go 100 and slam 

on the brake. But it stayed at Wallops Island for a long time. I don't 

think anybody ever really needed the top end of it like I built it for. 

And they might have loaned out that big engine and put a smaller 

one in. I don't know. But it died at Wallops Island some years ago. 

inary design study of a manned lift

ing reentry vehicle. The Flight 

Research Center's Procurement 

and Supply Branch this past week 

submitted the request for proposals 

to 16 industrial firms. The competition is open to all qualified 

companies. 

The study is intended to investigate a vehicle that has as its sole 

mission the investigation and basic 

research involved with the reentry 

of a manned lifting body from orbital flight. As such, the study vehicle would be of limited complexity with a one-man crew and minimum cost. 

The primary objective of the 

study is to determine problem areas 

and their influence on design and to 

provide accurate estimates of the 

weight, cost, and developmental 

schedule of such a research vehicle. 

To assess the problems and verify 

these estimates, the contractor will 

be required to perform a detailed 

preliminary design of the vehicle. 

For purposes of the study, the 

design mission of the lifting body 

re·search vehicle would consist of a 

'"'Unch from Cape Kennedy with a 

. )bal flight to a landing on a dry 

i~e betl near NASA's Flight Research Center. To ensure low 

costs, the study mission details are 

specific in the proposal requests. 

Closing date for the submissic:­

ofproposals is March 1, 1965. Two 

separate fixed price contracts for 

approximately $150,000 each are 

expected to be awarded by April 1, 

1965. 

Q: Is there anything else that I haven't asked you about that you'd like to tell about 

your years, particularly at NASA? Any people we haven't mentioned that you want to 

single out? 

A: In mass, in total, I would say that when I worked there it would have been hard to 

find a more respected and respectable, capable, dedicated group of people than was 

92 
Walter W. Whiteside, as assistant to 

the Director of Flight Operations, is concerned mainly with ground communications to aircraft. "Whitey" has had a very 

interesting and happy life at the Center 

since his arrival in March, 1960. Before 

coming to NASA he spent 26 years in the 

Air Force, retiring as a major. Whitey, who 

is currently renovating a Model A Ford, 

will be moving up the coast with his wife to 

live near Pismo Beach. His future activities 

include digging clams, fishing and riding 

Eight Industrial 

Firms Bid On Lifting 

Body Study Controct 

Procurement Officer, Steve 

Kucharik has reported that a total 

of eight industrial firms have responded to the Flight Research 

Center requestfor bids on a manned 

lifting body study_ The :request for 

bids was issued in .January and the 

closing date for bids was March 8. 

The eight :industrial firms ineluded McDo][IIJ!lell.Ai:rcraftCorporatio:n, Douglas Aircraft Coii!lpClDy. 

General Elec1tric ColDtllpCLDy, North 

American Aviation, Northrop Corporation, Ge:meralDyl!lalrnics, Lockheed California Col!lOipCUlly. iiJmd the 

Martin Col!lllp<iJ!IlyThe study is intended 1to fumvesti.­

gate a vehicle 1llln.a1t bas as its sole 

nrission the fumwesti.gati.on and basic 

research in:wolwecll with the reeoltry 

of a ~ecllll.iffit:iiJm.g body fromm orbital flligb.t_ 

For ttl!n.e ][JIIliJr"]P<I!Ses o:lf tills study. 

1!he desig~m llllllission o:lf Ulbte lift:ii.mtg 

body researclln.w.el!nicle 'llllfmlllld consist 

o:lf a la1llll!llcln :lfromm CapeKemD.edywiUlbt 

a global flligb.t 1bDI a landfumg on a dry' 

ll.ake bed near Ulbte Flight Researclln. 

-3­

EX-PRESSIONS 


sand dunes on his motor bike. 

CONGRATULATIONS .•. 

93 
states that an individual shall be 

ineligible for federal employment 

for five years if convicted by any 

Federal, State, or local court of 

competent jurisdiction of -­

(1) inciting a riot or civil disorder; 

(2) organizing, promoting, encouraging, or participating in a riot 

or civil disorder; 

(3) aiding or abetting any 

person in committing any offense 

specified in (1) or (2); or 

(4) any offense determined 

by the head of the employing 

agency to have been committed 

in furtherance of, or while participating in, a riot or civil disorder. 

ogecawe e to vstos ad 

tell them we use it to take the secretaries out to lunch. No longer 

can we drive along the lake bed and 

pass the airplanes in flight. 

Purchased originally in 1962, the 

Pontiac was used to tow the M2-Fl 

lifting body on the ground. Because 

of the M2-Fl's weight, a lot of power 

was required to get it up to flying 

speed. For this reason the Pontiac 

was selected, because of its powerful engine. But its basic ~ngine 

still wasn't enough. 

So the Pontiac was taken to a 

garage specializing in increasing 

performance. Special racing tires 

were added. When fully modified, 

including roll bars and radio equipment, gasoline mileage wasn't so 

good, about 4 miles per gallon. 

But by itself, according to driver 

Walter Whiteside, it was capable of 

hitting speeds of almost 140 mph. 

With the 1000-lb. M2-Fl lifting body 

in tow, it could get up to speeds of 

(Continued next column) 

Joe Vensel (left) 

shaking hands with 

Walt Williams in 

1956. Whiteside 

worked closely 

with Vensel before 

and after coming to 

NASA in 1960. 

(E56-2461) 

94 
Three Pi lots Make Their First M-2 Flight At FRC 

Three pilots, including the first 

man to fly faster than the speed of 

sound, made their first flights in 

the M-2 lifting body research vehicle this past week at the Flight 

Research Center. The three pilots, 

Air Force Colonel Charles "Chuck" 

Yeager, NASA's Bruce Peterson 

and Donald Mallick, underwent the 

familiarization flights in the unique 

vehicle under the direction of 

NASA's M -2 project pilot Milton 

Thompson and project leader Victor Horton, Until this time Milt 

Thompson had been the only man 

to have flown the M-2. 

Col. Yeager, who is now the 

Commandant of the Aerospace Research Pilots School at Edwards, 

made history when he became the 

first man to exceed the speed of 

sound, He piloted the -Air ForceNACA X-1 to a speed of 700 miles 


per hour, Mach 1. 06, on October 


14, 1947, His top speed in___ the 


M-2 probably did not exceed 125 


miles per hour. 

No stranger to flight in unique 

vehicles, Bruce Peterson is the 

current project pilot on NASA's 

paraglider. He has made more 

than 120 flights in the unpowered 

research vehicle with which NASA 

is evaluating the flex-wing concept 

for possible use in the recovery of 

space vehicles and rocket boosters. 

Don Mallick, a research pilot 

formerly with NASA's Langley Research Center, is also currently 

assigned as co-project pilot on the 

airborne variable stability program 

that the Flight Research Center is 

conducting with the J etstar aircraft. 

The M-2 was towed to an altitude of about 12,000 feet by another aircraft, a C-47. It was then 

released for glide flight back to 

earth. The lifting body concept is 

under study by the Center and other 

NASA facilities as a possible future 

space vehicle that is capable of 

landing on ·earth under pilot 

control. 

Co-Ops Return To School 

Eight student-s from Iowa State 


College are returning to their 


school after spending six months at 


the Flight Research Center as par-t 


of the NASA Co-op Student Trainee 


Program. The students, Richard 

Woodward, John Merris, David 

Klinger, Eugene Strand, Allen 

Clark, Sheryll Goecke, Emma Jaycox and James Cooper worked in 

various technical capacities at the 

Center, After six months of 

school, the students will return to 

the Center for another six months 

of on-the -job training. 

95 

The Pontiac and 

M2-F1 on the 

lakebed, ready 

for another tow 

flight. Whiteside

background cam

in handy when 

a tow car was 

needed for use 

in the program. 

(ED96-43663-1) 

i<UUJUIJlg the many people urr.rv•n 

ects undertaken at the Flight ~~-u-~·~ 

~S011rc1~S that pilots and engineers could 

technicians, and mechanics at the 

· was first established at Muroc 

to. the present day. In many cases, technicians have worked at the center for three and 

four decades without interruption. The first research aircraft Reedy worked on was th

X-IE. He began working at Dryden in I957, first as a NACAemployee, transferring 

NASA when it was established, and finally as a contractor. The end result of a career 

Reedy's is that ensuing support personnel have a body of experience, an "institutional 

memory," to draw upon for each new project to which they are assigned. The task at 

hand may be something no one has ever attempted, but with the magnitude of experie

Reedy and others like him had contributed to the knowledge base, potential solutions 

soon present themselves. In 2006, Reedy was awarded a NASA Exceptional Public 

Service Medal for "a lifetime ofinnovative technical achievements on generations of 

NASA flight vehicles, from the X-IE and X-I5 to the space shuttle orbiter." 

97 
 f Lancaster  in Procurement and Supp.ly' rom - ' at flap doing on the bed?' He said, Barbara E. Starr, of Palmdale, a :lerk 


typist in Flight Operations; _sylYl.a.M. Son, that's gotta be fixed before 


Wright clerk typist in the Library, 
 ou go to bed tonight.' So I had to 

living' in Lancaster; Jerry s. Reedy, . i· ·ng at Edwards. an aviation metalsmith, elp him out a lot, I guess, and he 

1.V1. L Haley cierk typist in Procuremen elped me out a lot too. Nancy ·• , . and Supply from Lancaster; and Natall.e 


Tambor 

_, Library clerk, living in Lancaste~ : This was in the 1940s? formerly of New York. 

A: Yes. About 1942 and up to 1945. In 1945 my father bought 350AT11 s and some AT-6s [trainers]. He restored them and sold them to South America. So I had 

to help them a lot on those. 

Q: What was your education? 

A: Well, I finished high school and then I went in the service. When I got out ofthe service 

I put two years into college. Then I went to welding school, and then NASA sent me to 

aircraft and missile welding school to get certified. Then I came back and I did welding 

there. Then I was over [at] the sheet metal shop for quite a few years. When they asked me 

ifl wanted to take over the sheet metal shop I told them that the only way I'd take it over 

is ifthey'd let me keep working on the airplanes and do things that I'd been doing before. 

So they agreed to do that, so I kept that. Then I told them ifl had to I'd take my homework 

home at night and do my paperwork, and then I could do my other things at work. 

Q: I understand the first project you worked on was the X-IE. Could you describe what 

you did? 

A: Yes. When I first hired in here I came here at about three o'clock in the afternoon to see 

ifl could get a job. They said, 'Yes. When can you go to work?' And I said, 'Well, right 

now.' And they said, 'Well, it's almost quitting time. Be here in the morning at seven.' 

So I came back at seven and I did my physical at the Air Force. Then when I came back 

they called me out to the X-1E and wanted to know ifI could put a floorboard in it. .. The 

control cables and everything [were] open. So I looked at it and wheels started turning in 

my head, and I said, 'Yes. I can do that.' They said, 'Okay. Go ahead and do it.' So I went 

ahead and I made it all up. Then I had a boot made for the stick and [it came] out real 

good. Then later on I found out that they had money bet that I couldn't do it, because three 

other people had tried starting it and they never got it finished. 

Q: And, of course, with the cables exposed there was always the possibility ofthem get­


ting jammed from something falling in there. 


A: Yes. They would take the catwalk [in the B-29] back to the X-1E when they put the 

pilot [in]. Ifthe crew chief dropped anything out ofhis pocket down inside ofthe aircraft it 

would get under the cables. They'd have to cancel the flight because they couldn't find it. 

98 
{furnished) at 44143 N. Fig Street, 

Lancaster. $70 per month (rent, 

utilities, and cleaning woman twice 

a month). Only nominal references 

required. Call: Whitehall 2-3057 

See : Alan D. Brown 

(Research Engineering) 

One-year old dachshund {male) needs 

a good home with children to play 

with, Has had shots, etc. See 

Bob Rhine, Photo Lab, ext. 46211. 

'SKYROCKET' STORY TO BE ON TE:LEV:ISION 

The Douglas "Skyrocket" D-558~·II project story wi..ll be pr'es:e:-_-:;ed on "'.Navy Log" on 

Wednesday, May 8~ immediately fo.llowing tl:e ''Dis:w.eyland'' series, 

Much of the film work for the presentation was done at EAF.B :l'}st November, 

Then they'd have to take the pilot out and then walk back up and then come back and land. 

Q: You couldn't just put a floor in there. It had to have clearance. It couldn'tjam the cables. 

A: That's right. Also, it had to fit the seat too. So it had to drop down to go underneath the seat and go up to w

the rudder pedals were. 

Q: So it wasn't just a flat plate. 

A: No. It wasn't a flat plate. Also, the sides ofthe aircraft are rounded and it tapered to the front; you had to ad

structure in there to hold that up too. So it took a little while but it worked out real good. It is still in there toda

Q: When exactly did you start working here? 

A: It was in June 1957. 

Q: That was toward the end ofthe D-558-II program. 

A: Yes. 

Q: Did you do any work on it? 

A: Not the flying one. But they had a lot ofpanels missing, so when they shipped them out ofhere they wante

to put all the panels and stuff back on that was missing. So we did a lot ofpanels to get them ready to go to the 

museum. 

Q: You also worked on the B-29 drop planes, is that correct? What did that involve? 

99 
had them. 

Q: What did you do in connection with the X-15 program? 

A: I did a lot ofmaintenance on the X -15. But when they 

first came here we got the B-52, and the pylons to hold the 

X-15 [were] NASA's responsibility and the aircraft was Air 

Force's responsibility. So I maintained those. At the time, 

the Air Force kept the airplanes in their hangars. So we had 

items, a base-wide collection will be maGe from 

military and civilian personnel on Jan. 2, 

FRC employees who wish to participate in the 

plan are requested to contribute $1, This will 

provide ·sufficient supplies for the employee's 

family for a period of 14 days, 

Payments should be made on Jan. 2 to the employee's time and attendance clerk or to the Administrative Hanagement Office, A roster will be 

maintained listing all persons who join the plan. 

Further information on this plan may be obtained from the Administrative Office. 

to go down there to work on them. So we took our tool box stuff, stayed down there and 

worked on them. Then when they came up here, I worked on the X-15 's. They told me 

they needed a work stand for the seats because they had to extend the stabilizer arms-so 

when they blew the seat out, that the arms would come out and stabilize it at high altitude. 

So they asked me to make a work stand. So I made a work stand for that. Then after that I 

had maintenance on all three ofthem, all the time we had them. Then we did some leading 

edge work on it. So I had to make some segments out oflnconel-X for the leading edge. 

Q: Was that when the skin got too hot, and expanded? 

A: They cut the leading edges, and then we made some special segments to go on there so 

it could expand. 

Q: On Pete Knight's flight-the Mach 6.7 flight-there was the bum-through on the lower 

fin. Could you describe what happened? 

A: Yes. We made this ramjet out of about 3/8 [inch] plate steel. It was a dummy ramjet and 

we hung it on the bottom ofthe X -15 to see how it would work. When it came back, we 

pulled it down in the old paint hangar and got to looking at it. I don't know really what 

happened, but it burned a hole through that 3/8 plate like a cutting torch went through 

there ...Kind of amazing how it burned through that 3/8. 

Q: What were some ofthe other things you did on the X-15-just a few examples? 

A: A lot ofthe instrumentation. In fact, the biggest part 

ofthe instrumentation had to be added. There wasn't 

much room in it to add a lot ofinstrumentation. They 

had the instrumentation bay, and everything had to go 

inside there. So it was quite a job, because only one guy 

at a time could get in there, so we had to share it with 

everybody else. 

Q: You had to shoehorn equipment in. 

PARESEV TUMBLES,,, 

Bruce Peterson, aeronautical research pilot. received minor injuries last week when the 

FRC paraglider went out of control and crashed 

on Rogers Dry Lake during vehicle tow tests,,,, 

The PARESEV is be'ing rebuilt and is expected to 

fly again next month •• ,Pilot Milt Thompson had 

made several successful free flights the day 

before the accident. being air-launched from a 

Super Piper Cub as high as 2200 feet, 

100 
PARAGLIDER IDEA 


TOPIC OF MEETING 


The engineer who conceived the 

idea of recovering the Saturn booster by means of a paraglider will 

be in .Antelope Valley this month to 

address the local chapter of the 

Institute of the Aerospace Sciences. 

Francis M. Rogalla, head of Langley Research Center's (bylO-foot 

wind tunnel, will speak to local 

IAS members and guests on March 28 

at the Antelope Valley Country Club 

starting at 8 p.m. Dinner will be 

preceded by a social hour at 7 p.m. 

The paraglider is one of several 

systems being studied as a means of 

recovering the huge Saturn booster, 

now under development by NASA's 

Marshall Space Flight Center at 

Huntsville, .Ala. 

The Saturn would be attached to 

the paraglider and, prior to release, would be folded longitudJ 

nally between the booster's outer 

tanks. After ejection, the booster 

would be guided to a pre-selected 

landing area. 


Further information 


tained from Jim Martin, 


EX-PRESSIONS 

PARESEV.,. 

Stands for paraglider research vehicle 

you'll be hearing and seeing more about this 

.looking vehicle later,., It was built bv F'RC from 

a design by Charles Richard of the V~hicle an

Systems Dynamics Branch,,PARESEV will investigat

flare charac,eristics of a similar recovery sys

tem designed to return spacecraft and boosters t

Earth,,,Research Pilot Milt Thompson has been se

lected to pilot the vehicle,,The project is bein

managed by Vic Horton, •• (X-PRESS had no availabl

pictures of FARESEV this week), 

Paul Bikle, Center Director, in a 

~emorandum encouraged supervisors to use 

eral annua;- leave policy during December. • .\-lith 

wet laKe bed conditions and prospects for 

more rainy weaLher, it's a good time to use that 

leave you might otherwise lose, 

TI ~'E FOR HOLIDAYS ..• 

Mr. and flrs. Leslie Leer (Bendix employee at .e Ely high range site) are the parents of a new son, Leslie Lewis IV born Dec. 3 and weighing 6 lbs. 5 oz .•.Leslie i~ the Leers' first child. 

FOR SALE - 1957 Plymount 4-door station wagon, 

18,000 miles, power steering and brakes. Good 

condition • $2295. Don Wilson, Ext. 41971. 

W'Al'iTED - To Join car pool :from Lancaster 

vrciiii'ty of 15th Street West and Avenue j. 

Ray Jackson, Ext. 45191. . 

FREE - BJ.ack cocker spaniel puppies (males) 

b"Weeks old. Floreii.ce Doull, Ext. 43261. ' 

FOR SALE - 'fuy poodles, 6 1./2 veeks old, 

pedigreed, AKC registered. $1.50. Jean 

Simpson, Air F=ce Reps office, = 1244 

Avenue a-12, Lancaster. 
on it. But at first Milt Thompson came to me and he 

says, 'Hey, Jerry, can you make one ofthese?' And he 

showed me a picture of a lawn chair with three little 

wheels on it, like a triangle with wheels on it. It had 

a parawing on top and it had a tilt stick coming down 

to steer it with. I laughed, and he said he went back to 

this college to see about this and he wanted to know 

ifwe could build one. I said, 'Yes, we can build one.' 

And he said, 'Well, we don't want it built out of a 

chair.' They pulled it by car to get it in the air. 

Q: One story I heard was that the blueprint for the 


framework was chalk marks on the floor. Was this 


A: I don't remember exactly, but I'm sure it was be­


cause most everything we did, there was hand 


They'd just do it on a piece ofbrown paper bag-just 


rough sketch, and then we would get it made and 


engineering would okay it. 


Q: So, very little in the way offormal blueprints. 

A: It was 'do it and get the job done.' Ifit works, 


it-ifit doesn't, we'll do it again. 


Q: Don't worry about reams ofpaperwork, in other 

words. 

A: No, no. We got a lot done too. And in most cases · 

worked. Sometimes we didn't and we'd modify it 


go agam. 


Q: And direct contact between the engineers and the 

shop people. 

A: Direct contact. Sometimes they would call you on 

the phone and they'd ask you how you would do it 

then you'd tell them how you thought you would do 

Sometimes they'd say, 'Okay. You go ahead and do· 

We'll cover you later on the paperwork.' 

F R C PARAGLIDER 

A demonstration flight of the paraglider 

for members of the press was made on Sept. 

13 at the FRC. The Paresev (Paraglider Research Vehicle) is be.i.ng used by FRC engineers 

for study of its flight characteristics and the 

possible use for future vehicles. 

Although there are similar parawing concepts, the Paresev is the first manned vehicle 

designed to be towed aloft and released like a 

conventional glider. As such, its flight program is providing much valuable flight data 

from the three following main areas: flare 

arid landing capabilities; stability and controlability; and pilot training. 

Having no power plant of its own, the 

paraglider was towed to an altitude of 5000 

feet by a Stearman Biplane. Released, the 

craft was flown back to the Rogers Dry Lake 

bed in .three minutes by FRC's project pilot, 

Milton 0. Thompson. . 

" The uniq~e vehicle, weig~in~g 6~0 pounds 

with pilot, is constructed of tubular steel and 

is topped by 150 feet of dacron, which serves 

as its wing and control surface. Pilot Thompson controls the flight path by tilting this wing 

up and down, and from side to side, causing 

the paraglider to follow a selected course on 

its glide to a flared landing. The paraglider 

is certified by the F. A. A. as an experimental 

aircraft. 

Possible uses of the paraglider concept 

include recovery of future spacecraft and rocket boosters. 

Paresev was built at NASA's FRC by 

FRC personnel. It was designed by Charles 

H. Richard of FRC's Vehicle and System Dynamics Branch. The Project Leader for this 

unique vehicle is Victor W. Horton. 

Other members of the Para.glider Project include: Frank Fedor, Dick Kleiii, LeRoy Barto, John Orahood, Garry Layton and 

the members of the Maintenance and Manufacturing Branch. 

An examination has been announced and 

applications are being acceptedby the Civil Service Board, NASA FRC, for the position of Research Instrument Systems Mechanic. For 

further information, see the Personnel Officer. 

Q: The M2-Fllifting body was also home-built. What 

was your part in that? 

102 
bed being towed by both automo­ ff with canvas, and a sign that said "Wright Bicycle Shop" w

bile and airplane, Major Grissom utup. 
 was always under- the watchful 


eye of FRC's Milt Thompson, 
 :I don't know who did that, but it did say bicycle shop-yes

his mentor during this check out 

procedure. 

: What did you do on the XB-70? 

A: I did a little instrumentation work, but I did a lot ofwork on the afterburner cans. T

had them done back in Florida or Alabama-I think it was Alabama. When they got ou

here they wouldn't pass inspection. So we didn't have a big enough drill press, so we 

to use a drill press at the Air Force. It had to drill out all the old rivets, and then put th

back in. But we had to have a special rivet gun. It heated the rivets up to a certain tem

ture and then drove them. So they had a bucking bar with an electrode in it and the riv

gun and when you pulled the trigger it made contact. It heated up the rivet and you co

drive it. We had to do every one ofthose over that they sent out here. 

Q: It was a special, high-temperature metal. 

A: Yes. So that's why you had to have a special gun made to drive the rivets, otherwis

you couldn't drive them. I think that was one ofthe problems back there, because they 

[the rivets] were all bent over when we got them and they wouldn't pass inspection wh

they got here. 

Q: I understand there were a lot ofproblems with the number one aircraft, such as the 

peeling off in flight. Do you remember anything along these lines? 

A: I don't remember too much about the skin peeling off. In the number two aircraft th

spilled some acid. Somebody didn't say anything when it was being built and it ran do

in the wing root and ate that away. I don't remember what they did, but the manufactu

people went in there. I don't know whether they added something or what, but it was d

when they were building it and nobody down at the factory said anything, I guess. Wh

that etching acid ran in there, it started eating the material away. 

Q: You talked about installing instrumentation. This was the recording equipment, the 

instrument panel cameras-things like that. What all was involved putting it in the aircr

You had to connect it up? 

A: The electrician did all the electrical part and we mounted it so they could get the wir

run to it and then position it where they wanted it in the aircraft. I remember I mounted 

some rakes on panels that went underneath the airplane. 

Q: You mentioned once that you saw Joe Walker the morning ofthe XB-70 accident. 

A: Yes. Joe Walker. I met him when I first came here. I had the antique car and heal103 
spring. 

NASA and the Air Force have 

made an agreement for extended 

XB -70 flight research to obtain 

supersonic operational flight information which is impossible to 

get in ground facilities. 

Information collected in the 

joint program would be more fundamental in nature than the design 

configuration data being obtained 

in the Air Force's flight evaluation 

program. The joint flight program is scheduled for first priority. Both NASA and AF pilots will 

Objectives of the joint program 

are to obtain informatlon on aerodynamics, structures, and operational factors concerned with flight 

of large transport-type aircraft at 

speeds up to 2000 rn. p. h. Among 

the items of interest are skin friction, stability and control, drag, 

boundary layer flow, air loads, 

thermal environment, sonic boo1n, 

landing and crew workload. 

The expands 

ing equipment and other gear in 

the two XB -70 airplan" s to obtain 

information about flight characteristics of large supersonic aircraft. 

This information is of value to the 

national supersonic transport program_ NASA has $10 million for 

the work in its FY 1966 budget. 

The NASA Flight Research 

and the Air Force Flight Test 

Center will have joint responsibility in managing the XB-70 experiments. 

C. W. Harper 1 Director of 

Aeronautical Research in NASA's 

Office of Advanced Research and 

Technology, said the XB-70, built 

by North American Aviation, Inc. , 

is the only existing airplane approximating the size and weight of 

the projected supersonic transport 

and able to fly at speeds up to 2000 

m.p.h. XB-70 No. l reached a top 

sp<><'d of more than 2000 m.p.h. 

Oct. 14, 1965. Two XB-70s were 

built and are flying regularly. 

Extensive military and com

mlhta,-y flight experience in the 

s.up: r sonic range is relativelv 

hmlte,j, Harp·er explained. . 

Flight research in the XB -70 

pro~ram will be concerned ¥.rith a 

Yarlety of problems of operation' 

~afety, stability and control. The 

JO>nt NASA-USAF effort will use 

an assortment of special gear 

including thermocouples, bound~ 

ary-layer rakes, cameras, microph~nes' accelerometers' and 

o~her lnstruments in the two XB -70 

a:rcraft, together with data anal.ySls and reporting. 

ways attended antique car rallies that we had. So I knew Joe pretty well. I was over at 

the maintenance office early one morning, right after I came to work, and I was standing 

there looking out. It was really, really nasty weather. It was bad, cloudy and real windy. 

He came along and he said, 'Hey, Jerry, it's a bad day to fly.' I said, 'Yes. Are you going 

to fly?' He said, 'I've got to fly. They're going to take some pictures.' I said, 'Boy, it's a 

bad day to even take pictures, looks like to me.' He said, 'Well, we've got to get it over 

with.' That was the last time I talked to Joe. Joe was really, really a good guy as far as I'm 

concerned. The public liked him. He was a well-known figure around here in those years. 

Q: What was the mood after the accident? What was the feeling? 

A: It was real sad, really. It was really, really sad. For quite awhile it was sad. People 

didn't say a whole lot because it came as a shock, I guess. It [the photo flight] was supposed to be for [General Electric]. All the aircraft that were flying [in the formation] had 

GE engines. Joe was a good pilot. He was a good guy, a real good guy-good pilot. The 

F-104 evidently just porpoised up into the back ofthe XB-70. I don't know really, really 

what happened-whether wind currents or-you get odd weather when you get that close 

behind the airplane. They had to get pretty close to get all the airplanes in. 

Q: You touched on this earlier, but what were the procedures during the 1960s on fabricating equipment? I get the sense it was fairly casuaL 

104 
A: A bucking bar is to buck rivets with, to hold the airplane together. 

Q: You put the bucking bar on the back so this keeps the rivet from going back out. 

A: Yes-and put the rivet in and use the gun to drive the rivet. 

Q: But almost anything that you needed you made .... And it took a lot of give. Peopl

had to communicate with each other and get the job done and that's what they did. 

Q: And forget the paperwork. 

A: Yes. You know, you had the paperwork eventually cover it, but it wasn't the idea it 

takes three months to get the paperwork to do an hour's job. 

Q: What did you do on the YF-12A program? 

A: The YF -12A? When I first went on that program I had to go into the systems. I wen

school to Lockheed and the Air Force, and I worked about a year with the Air Force a

Lockheed before they'd give NA

airplane. But when they did g

Center Begins Joint YF-12 Program an airplane-my understandin

A joint NASA/Air Force YF-12 supersonic cruise research aircraft. The that we had to build them an 

flight research program has been initiated two YF-12A aircraft will help fill this re· 


at the Flight Research Center. Gene search and development gap for both 


Matranga is project manager for the agencies. 


Flight Research Center. The Air Force is seeking additional 


Under terms of the program, the data on operational factors, development mately two and one-half years. 

Air Force will make available the two of procedures and establishment of limi­ For the NASA-controlled Phase 

YF-12A aircraft presently in flyable stor­ tations relating to command and control one of the YF-12A aircraft will 

age at Edwards. Also included will be problems, and establishment of possible loaned to the Center about six month

necessary spare parts and associated ground bomber penetration tactics against an in­ after Phase I begins. Air Force will pro

equipment, base support at the Edwards terceptor with the YF-12A performance 
 VIde maintenance and air crew personne

installation, and Air Force maintenance and capability. 
 for both aircraft for the first six months

personnel. NASA is seeking data on altitude­
 Thereafter, NASA will provide most ser

NASA will budget.for and fund the hold at supersonic speeds, boundary layer VIces and personnel for its on-loan air

test program in an amount estimated at nqise, heat transfer under high-speed con­
 craft. Contractor support will be provided 

$10 million through Fiscal Year 1974. ditions, airframe propulsion system inter­
 for both Phases of the test program 

NASA has requested funds for the pro­ actions involving effects of engine inlet 
 . Joint USAF/NASA support pro~ gram in Fiscal Year 1970, and, in addition, performance, and other performance and 
 Vlded will include mission p' . . •annmg, data will use about $4 million made available handling characteristics. reduction, reporting, test operations and 

by completio.n of the X-15 and XB-70 The new program is divided into r , 
 ange and chase aircraft as required. 


flight programs. two phases, with Phase I under Air Force 


Recent termination of the XB-70 control. This phase began with the re­


program has left NASA and certain por­ cent signing of the Memorandum of 


tions of the Air Force research and de­ Understanding, and will last for approxivelopment community without a suitable (Continued next column) 

materials on that aircraft? 

A: It's real funny. The titanium is really strange because on that type of airplane they had 

two types oftitanium. They had titanium A and titanium B. The B you could work with a 

little-it was forgiving-you could fold it and get a radius on it. But the A was really, really 

hard to work with. It would break. As far as drilling, you had to 

have special drills to drill it at real slow speeds. So we had a drill Con-Trat·ls: 

motor that had two speeds on it so we could drill it. Then we had 

to use titanium and stainless rivets in them. 

Q: One story I heard was that you couldn't use pencils on the 	 Vic Horton, Flight Operations went 

school for s · ' titanium because the graphite would etch the metal. 	 to urv1val training p . 

flying in the YF-12 r nor to 

toe . P ogram. He disA: Yes. On the titanium you had to have a special pencil to ated his shoulder while falli 

life raft . · ng out of a write on it. Also, you couldn't use any cadmium plating. All the ....... Bill LePage's F,­

tools had to be chrome-plated, or ifthey were cadmium we had Operations, son has won his Arm, .lght 

and is on h. Y Wmgs to strip all the cadmium off ofthe tools. I saw where somebody Pilot IS way to Asia as a helicopter had put a cadmium washer on the aircraft. When [the aircraft] ....... Ralph PemuJa' 


came back, the whole bolt was gone and there was a hole Systems son · s, Data 


U . . ' IS the starting center on the 

where it was put on. 	 n1vers1ty of Wyom. , .. mg s football team 

. . . . . Receiving Special A h. . Q: One story I heard was that Lockheed found out that the and Q ,. 	 c levement ua lty Increase Awards last 

chlorine in the Burbank water system was causing welds to were Bea C . 	 quarter orrmgton and Claude F fail immediately. They were washing the metal in the tap wa­ Adm· 	. avreau lnlstration; David G d · ' 

ter and there was a reaction with the chlorine in the water. Gerald' M ar ner, Research; 

me arkey Bio d" Ch I ' me leal Programs· 

ares Blake, Data Systems; AIJen Klom, A: You're supposed to use distilled water to wash it with. mhaus, Robert Aile 	 ­ Alf d n, Clarence Haley 

Q: What about like the fiberglass on the wings' leading re 	 Walsh, Charles Linn Ralph C' u' 

and Larry o__ ' JSSe , .uacnett, all of Flight 0 . edges? 	 Perat1ons. 

A: The YF-12C [SR-71A] had plastic panels-what they call plastic-which were really made out ofpressed asbestos. But we had an experiment they called a 'cold wall' that 


they hung on the bottom ofthe [YF -12A]. They had this cold wall-like a big old cannon 


mounted on the bottom-that hung down, probably six, eight inches. It was about 12 or 


14 inches diameter. We had to chill that down as cold as we could get it and then go up to 


altitude and blow [the cover] off and see how long it took for the metal underneath it to 


heat up. Lockheed had come up with some rubber to glue the bottom ofthe airplane-high­


temp red rubber-because when that tile blew off it would punch holes in the fuel cells in 


the wings. So they put that rubber on and it didn't work. They couldn't figure out what to 


do. So they had a bunch of engineers from Lockheed come up. 


One day I was going to eat in the chow line, and Bill Albrecht was there with maybe 10 


or 12 people from Lockheed. They were sitting there talking and I'm just standing in line 


and bobbing back and forth against the wall. Then Bill says, 'Hey, Jerry, have you got any 


106 
the YF-12 Cold Wall, hollowcylinder experiment and the YF12 inlet airframe interaction 

flight-test program. 

YF-12 No. 935, which carried the Cold Wall, will continue 

to fly lower surface boundary 

layer research missions until it 

is put into storage at the Dryden 

Flight Research Center in January. Prior to this, it is scheduled to taxi-test a new landing 

gear control system the week 

before Christmas. 

The Center's other YF-1 2. 

No. 9 37, is being modified with 

the Co-operative Air Frame Propulsion Control System {Co-op)· 

The system, which will be flighttested in March 1978, utilizes 

integrated control technology 

cision than was previously pos

sible, test researchers report. 

Co-op is designed to minimize "Mach and altitude excursions" induced by atmospheric disturbances on supersonic 

aircraft. Such excursions can 

cause aircraft performance loss 

and create air traffic control 

problems. 

Additional plans in the overall YF-12 program call for the 

aircraft to be flown by almost 

all the Center's research pilots. 

Currently only Fitz Fulton and 

Don Mallick, along with flight 

engineers Vic Horton and Ray 

Young, are flying in the triplesonic craft. 

"Our· research pilots gain 

valuable experience and broaden their background by flying 

a large variety of aircraft," explained John Manke, Chief of 

Flight Operations. "We want 

the opportun_ity to provide our 

pilots the experience of flying 

high perform

The seminar is now in the planning stage, according to Albers 

and is scheduled to be hel~ 

here next summer. 

Basic purpose of the YF-12 

program, which began here in 

1969' is to obtain information 

from sustained cruise flight at 

Mach 3 (approximately 2000 

mph) and at altitudes in the 

80,000 foot range. Data obtained from the program is being 

used to provide the technology 

necessary for the development 

and operation of future supersonic aircraft. 

NI\SJ\ 

National AeronautiCS and 


Space Adm•n•strat1on 


HughO.Bol. Dryden Flight Research Center P X 273 

Edwards. Califoma 93523 
idea how to fix that?' I said, 'Yes, Bill, I know exactly how to fix 

it.' He said, 'You do? How would you do that?' I said, 'Well, I 

already figured it out, Bill. First I'd put RTV 1 on the bottom of 

the aircraft, then I'd put a copper screen on it and then just build 

up the copper screen with red RTV, which is real high-temp.' 

He says, 'You think that would work?' I said, 'Yes, I know it 

would work, Bill.' He says, 'How would you attach it?' I said, 'I 

already figured it out. I've got metal stuff cut and everything. I 

already know what to do.' He says, 'Well, I'll let you know this 

afternoon.' He called me about two o'clock in the afternoon and 

I already had all the parts cut and everything. He said, 'Go ahead 

and do it.' They did it and it worked perfect. I got 50 dollars for 

doing it, so it worked out perfect. After that what would bum off, 

we'd just add more back on and come back. 

Q: Were there any other projects that spring to mind? 

A: Well, the HL-1 0 lifting body [at Dryden] on the pedestal-we 

completely redid that. It went down to L.A. and they dropped it 

65 feet-it hit upside down.2 When they brought it back, I understand that they wanted $3 million dollars to restore it. ...at the 

time I was over at the sheet metal shop and I said to pull it down 

there, and in our spare time we'll restore it. They sent a guy out 

from Smithsonian and it [the HL-1 0] evidently belonged to them 

because he wanted to see what [we] were going to do. And he 

asked me not to drill any new holes in it. I could utilize anything 

in it that was already there to mount it. 

Q: When the M2-F2 crashed-Bruce Peterson's accident-the 

structure was very badly damaged. Were you involved in the 

restoration and the conversion to the vehicle? 

(E-16781) 

VOLUME ll 

Damaged Lifting 

Body to be 

Partially Restored 

Authorization has been given by 

NASA's Office of Advanced Research and Technology to partially 

restore the primary structure of 

the M2 -F2 lifting body to permit its 

removal from the inspectionjig and 

return to the Flight Research 

Center. 

After the M2 lifting body was 

damaged in a landing accident on 

May 10, 1967, Northrop Norair 

made a detailed inspection to determine the extent of the damage. 

The inspection required removal 

of the outer skin and portions of the 

secondary structure. The primary 

structure was placed in a jig to 

check alignment and to determine 

what parts were reusable. The ,M2 

is still in the inspection jig pending 

completion of the inspection, which 

is expected in the next 60 days. 

The M2 structure is expected to 

be returned to the Flight Research 

Center in late summer where it 

will remain pending a decision from 

the Associate Administrator, NASA 

Office of Advanced Research and 

Technology, on its future. This 

decision will depend on the results 

of studies, now underway, which 

will defi.ne the future research 

work required for lifting bodies on 

the basis of the flight results and 

other experience obtained from 

both the M2 and HL-10. 

RTV stands for "Room Temperature Vulcanizing," a flexible plastic material that 

comes in a tube and is used for sealing, as adhesive, or in forming gaskets. 

The HL-1 0 was to be displayed hanging from the ceiling of a museum. As the lifting 

body was being raised, the accident occurred. 

108 

2 
A: Yes. Also, in the 1960s, 70s, and maybe clear up in the 80s, the capability here was 

fabulous. You could get anything made-anything, I don't care what it was-or any prob

solved. They had engineers and people that could solve any problem or make anything

And I mean they could make anything. 

Q: You could do it all in-house. 

A: It could be done right here. We had the knowledge. Then later on

hate to say this-but later on, it got where it got more [tight] and they 

didn't give the people the privilege ofgoing out and doing the job-m

Summer Picnic paperwork and more safety. 

Next Friday is the last oppor­


tunity for all employees and con­
 Q: You touched on this earlier. How have the processes you go throu

tractors of the Flight Research 


Center to obtain tickets for the 
 to make modifications changed between now and the way it was wh

1967 summer picnic at reduced 

prices. If the tickets are pur­ you started here? More paperwork? chased at the entrance of the park 


they will cost more. 


will re­


quired for all persons five years 


Admission tickets be A: Yes. Modifications back in those days were hand waving, more or 

and older. If purchased at the less, and verbal-how to do it-or ifyou knew how to do it, go ahead a

Center from the division time and do it. Ifit works, we've accomplished something-ifnot, we'll do it t

attendance clerks, they will cost 


50 cents apiece. If purchased at 
 we accomplish it. But nowadays I don't think they start anything till 

the park, they will cost 75 cents 

get the paperwork. But years ago-I've been called by the Center Dir

The picnic, which is sponsored 

by the Flight Research Center 1 s tor to do new jobs, like that sign in the front ofthe main building [on 

Employee Exchange Council, will Dryden campus]. They wanted to take the "worm" [the NASA insign

begin at 10:00 a.m. on August 5, 

at the Soledad Sands Park. Fami­ from 1975 to 1992] offbeforeAdministrator [DanielS.] Goldin cam

lies planning on attending should 

bring their .own lunches. Free re­ out here. So I got a call and they wanted to know ifI could take care freshments will be served. ofthat problem for them. I said, 'Sure, I can.' So I put all new stainle

A full schedule of activities is 

planned that should provide plenty up there, and made a "meatball" [the NASA insignia before 1975 and of fun and exercise for the whole 

family. Don1 t forget to bring after 1992] out of aluminum that stood out about an inch and a half, t

bathing suits as there is a large inches and then put the meatball decal on that part ofit and then put t

swimming pool and a wading pool 

for the small ones. lettering on. And it's still there and it looks good. Also, Howard Curti

and I made all the stuff to mount the X-IE on the lawn-it was a lawn 

the time; now it's rocks. 

Q: Okay. What are the project or projects that you thought were the m

fun that you worked on over the years? 

A: Well, they've all been really fun. I've enjoyed it, or I wouldn't be here now. I enjoye

everything I've worked on. But the hardest and the one I felt I accomplished more on w

the SR and the YF -12. It was really, really hard work. But a lot oftimes I stayed over o

my own and [did] work just to get the job done because I enjoyed it so much. The time 

went by so fast that the day was gone before you realized it. I just liked to keep going a

I kept doing it. 

Q: And was that the most demanding or difficult as well, do you think? 

109 
The X-1 E - the first aircraft Reedy worked on - on display in front of 

the Headquarters building on a snowy desert morning. Reedy built the 

floor on the aircraft as his very first job. (E-7939) 

A: You know, really, ifyou look back-I don't remember any really, really difficult jobs. I always got in and tackled them and most times everything came 

out good. 

Q: What do you see as the importance ofthe in-house fabrication? Flexibility? 

A: Flexibility. Ifyou can get the people to feel that they're really involved in it 

instead ofjust shipping them down there or something on a piece ofpaper-it 

was a lot better when you could talk to the engineer. They had a lot ofschooling but no hands-on experience, so that it made a lot of difference when they 

came down [to the sheet metal shop]. 

Q: So they might have an idea, but they didn't know the practicalities ofmaking it. 

A: Ofmaking it-the radiuses to use. Because the metal has to have radiuses to 

bend or it will crack, or it's stressed. 

Q: Also, the difficulty ofgetting a part inside an airplane that is already completely filled with wires. 

A: Oh, yes. I've had a lot ofproblems where you had to use a mirror to get 

in to do some welding. You're actually welding behind you or something. 

It's kind of a technique after you get used to it. But it's backwards from what 

you're really doing, because the mirror is in an area whereQ: It reverses the image. 

A: Yes. But all the years I've been here-I guess that's why I don't leave-be

Air Museum of the Smithsonian 

Institute. However, the Smithsonian, while awaiting the completion of their new building in Washington, D. C., has loaned the Paresev to the EAA for display in the 

EAA1 s museum in Wisconsin. 

The Paresev was constructed by 

Center personnel and officially 

registered as an experimental 

vehicle with the Federal Aviation 

Agency on February 12, 1962. 

Flight testing began almost immediately. 

The Paresev was designed as a 

low-cost vehicle to make manned 

flights utilizing the· Rogalla wir1g 

concept which was being considered 

for use as a recovery system of 

manned space capsules such as the 

Gemini spacecraft. The system 

was not used for this purpose however. 

The Rogallo wing, triangular in 

shape, was connected to the Paresev by an universal joint. The pilot 

controlled the craft by tilting the 

wing fore and aft to control the 

rate of descent and from side-toside to turn. A conventional stick 

and rudder system was used by the 

pilot on the latter version of the 

Paresev. 

Initial flight testing was accomplished by towing behind a ground 

vehicle. This led to air tows using 

a bi-plane, a L-19, and eventually 

HC-1 Boeing helicopter. The Paresev was air towed to an altitude of 

approximately 10, 000 feet where it 

was released for free flight. Landing speed was approximately 40 

mph. 

Flight testing continued. through 

1964. Over 100 manned flights of 

the Paresev were made. 

Milt Thompson and Bruce 

Peterson were the project pilots on 

the program. In addition, NASA 

pilots Neil Armstrong, Jack 

Kluever, Gus Grissom, and Bob 

Champine also flew the experimental craft. 

The EAA• s Air Education Museum is a non-profit, tax-exempt 

institution that was established in 

1955. 

The Paresev will join such aircraft as a replica of the glider built 

by Octave Chanute, a 1912 Curtiss 

pusher, a Fok.ker triplane, a Sopwith Camel and a Nieuport 24. 

Over 50 such aircraft are on display at the Museum. 

Paul Poberezny, President of 

the EAA, accepted the Paresev 

from the Center. 

110 
The HL-10 lifting 

body makes its 

first flight. Reedy 

was involved in its 

repair after it was 

dropped while being put on display. 

(E-16207) 

A: I don't really know what it is. They just bring me something and they say, 'We need 

this, we need that,' and that's all they say. 

Q: Puzzle-solving ability? 

A: Yes. As long as it's something to do with metal and stuff like that. As far as electron

it's a little more difficult to do anything. You could bring me a carburetor in four, five, 

different pieces, and I could weld that dude back together and the parts missing, I could 

make to go in there. 

Q: With no blueprints, no instructions. 

A: No. I can read blueprint stuff. But a lot oftimes the stuff that you do, there's no blue

print or it-takes the guy days to get it to the blueprints, when I can have a job done in a 

day. 

Q: Okay. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. 
main gear down on the runway at 

Edwards this past Monday following its first flight which originated 

at Palmdale. 

Built by North American Aviation, the builder of the :X:-15, the 

XB -70 is a USAF project. The 

aircraft was designed to be capable 

of speeds up to three times the 

speed of sound. 

The Flight Research Center is 

spending about 2 million dollars on 

instrumentation to gather test data 

during the XB -70 flight test program for possible application to 

the supersonic transport program. 

The program will not interfere with 

the other portions of the flight test 

Main areas of consideration include aerodynamics, structures, 

and operations. William Andrews 

is the head of the Center 1 s Supersonic Research Section and has 

been following the XB -70 closely 

during these last months. 

Wins Center 

Study Contract 

Bernard J. Maybrat of the Center's Research Support Unit has 

announced that the Flight Research 

Center has awarded a $82,500 contract to the General Electric Company, Cincinnati, Ohio, to conduct 

a study of the flight instrumentation 

for use on a research ramjet to be 

carried on the X-15A-2 aircraft. 

Under the terms of the contract, 

General Electric 1 s Advanced Engine and Technology department 

will be responsible for the conceptual design of advanced instrumentation for application in the X-15 

ramjet research program. 

A major portion of the instrumentation is the development of a 

thrust/ drag measuring device and 

appropriate sensors to measure the 

net thrust or drag that is transmitted to the X -15 aircraft from 

the ramjet. The design of this device will also provide the capability to jettison the ramjet from the 

X-15A-2. 

Included in the study is the selection of available instrumentation 

compone!J.ts, design of advanced 

components requiring further development, and formulation of an 

overall plan for providing the flight 

instrumentation. Some additional 

parameters 'to be measured include 

temperatures, pressures, gas 

composition, fuel flow, vibration, 

(continued next column) 

112 
No. 935 to study the effects of 

extremely rapid heating. Liquid 

nitrogen is carried on the inside 

of the fixture to keep the metal at 

The aircraft is flown to high 

speeds and the external covering 

is exploded off the test fixture, 

exposing the metal fixture to very 

high temperatures. 

Because other aircraft are 

ul)able to fly as fast as the YF-12, 

the Center's second YF-12, No. 

937, was used to fly photo chase. 

Because of the summer temperatures, take-off was made 

very early in the morning. 

Joe Walker was 

Dryden's chief 

pilot at the time 

his death in 196

He had flown th

X-1E, X-3, X-15

and LLRV, and 

was scheduled 

fly the XB-70. 

(E-1937) 
THIRTY YEARS 

WILLIAM R. WINTER. M.D. 


CHARLES W. RUSSELL 


HERBERTL.HATCHER 


GENE A. KENNER 


RUSSELL EDDINGTON 


STANLEY C. PLAMOUS 


VICTOR CARRELLO 


GUSTAVE A. SWANSON 


TWENTY-FIVE YEARS 

ISAACT. GILLAM IV 


RALPH B. JACKSON 


LeROY E. BARTO 


HAROLD P. WASHINGTON 


TERRY J. LARSON 


ROBERT D. REED 


HARRIET J. SMITH 


JERRY S. REEDY 


ALFRED B. WALSH 


DONALD L. MALLICK 


JOSEPH D. HUSMAN 


ROGER J. BARNICK! 


JAMES M. BLACK 


HARRY CURLEY 


CLARENCE E. COOK 


JOHN H. TANNER 


LEOR. WEBB 


BEATRICE H. CORRINGTON 


JACK T. TOLLIVER 


WALTER P. REDMAN 


JAMES M. EDGEWORTH 


TWENTY YEARS 

LeROY P. FROST 


HENRY STEIGINGA 


THEODORE G. AYERS 


JERALD M. JENKINS 


LUMIR J. EHERNBERGER 


BRUCE G. POWERS 


RONALD J. WILSON 


RAYMOND L. WHITE 


BOLESLAW SZUWALSKI 


JOE P. MISPLAY 


CLARENCE HALEY 


DOMINIC MASSIMINO 


WILLIAM J. RUSSO 


DAVID W. STODDARD 


WILLIAM R. YOUNG 


JOHN R. RIFENBERRY 


KENNETHT. COWDIN 


EARNESTR. TAYLOR 


WILLIAM R. PETERSON 


MARTHA L. BROWN 


JOHNW.WRIN 


FLOYD E. CUMMINGS 


REUBEN P. NELSON 


JAMES E. HICKMAN 


JAMES A. FERGUSON 


JOHN M. BRUNO 


. CHARLES H. BAILEY 

RUSSELL D. GILBERT 

D-558 Skyrocket that was donated 


to the school by the NASA Flight 


Research Center last December. 


Also active in the presentation be­


sides Mr. De Beeler, were John 


McKay, Center research pilot, 


Mr. Al Carter, Douglas Aircraft 


representative, Rear Admiral 


Turner Caldwell, USN and Bill 
 Pictured around the dedication 

Bridgeman, former Douglas pilot. plaque are Adm, Caldwell, School 

There were three D-558 Sky­ President Clyde McCully, Mr. 

Carter and Mr. Beeler, rocket aircraft built by the Douglas 


Company for the US Navy. The 


other two are now on display at the 


Smithsonian Institute in Washing­


ton, D. C. and at the Air Museum 


in Claremont, California. This 


particular version, the last one 


built, now stands on the college 1 s 
 new campus. 


All five participants in the pro­


gram had active parts in the actual 


research program of the aircraft. 


Mr. Beeler was instrumental in 


the concept and resea:tch program Three men who piloted the D-558; 


for the National Advisory Commit­ Bill Bridgeman, Adm, Caldwell, 


tee for Aeronautics - NASA 1 s pre­ USN, and Jack McKay, NASA. 


decessor - and Mr. Carter was 

the Engineering Manager of the school by Admiral Caldwell, signiFlight Test Division for Douglas. fying the actual dedication. The 

Admiral Caldwell, Jack McKay and plaque was then unveiled by Mr. 

Bill Bridgeman flew the aircraft Beeler. This plaque is now mountduring the program. ed in front of the aircraft. 

The flight log books of the air­ The Skyrocket, that was given 

craft were turned over to the to the school, is the sister ship of 

k t that was the first the Skyroc e . . ' , . the 

aircraft to fly faster than ·tw1ce . 

d During the D-558 speed of soun • · · .. · d 

hase II flight program, condu~te

~early 10 years ago, world fhght 

d of a speed of 1327 mph recor s es- and an altitude of 83,235 were 

tablished. th 

The research program of e 

Skyrocket was a prov1ng · ground for 

many aeronautical .-concepts that 

are now accepted as common usage 

in most modern day aircraft. 

114 
Interviewed by Peter Me 

William H. "Bill" Dana was among those at the Flight Research Center who exper

enced first-hand the transition from air to space. He was born in Pasadena, Californi

in 1930 and grew up in Bakersfield. As a child, he saw B-25s and P-38s flying overhead. The first U.S. jet squadron was operating out of the Bakersfield airport in the f

of 1945. One day, Dana also saw a Northrop XB-35 flying wing over Bakersfield. Th

exposure to aircraft sparked an early interest in flight. 

After graduation from high school in 1948, he received an appointment to the U.S. 

Military Academy at West Point, New York. He graduated in 1952, during the Korea

War, and was commissioned as a lieutenant in the U.S. Air Force. He completed his 

flight training the following year and received his wings just a few days after the arm

stice was signed. He served in the Air Force until 1956, flying F -84s and F -86s. Dan

completed his Air Force commitment in 1956 but wanted to continue flying. The ide

of test flying appealed to him, and he enrolled at the University of Southern Californ

as a graduate student. While Dana was at USC, the Soviets launched Sputnik I, settin

in motion events that would transform U.S. space activities. 

Dana received his master's degree in aeronautical engineering in June 1958, and li

other new graduates, began looking for a job. He interviewed with Lockheed, North 

American Aviation, and others. In September 1958, Dana set up interviews at Edwar

Air Force Base with General Dynamics in the morning and with General Electric in 

afternoon. Dana's interview with General Dynamics was completed promptly at noo

115 
three F-I04s, an F-I07A, and an F-I02A. 

These were all aircraft Dana had heard about but had never had a chance to fly. Dana 

was offered a job on the spot as a stability and control engineer, with the understanding 

that he would transfer to the pilot's office once a position opened up. Dana accepted the 

offer the same day and asked when he wanted to report for duty. He had to move from 

his apartment in Van Nuys up to the Edwards area, so he replied that he could start on 

the first of October. He went to the interview with General Electric, but told them he 

had taken a job with the NACA. Dana later observed, "GE didn't have a hangar full of 

F-I04s." 

This chance encounter led to a flying career lasting more than three decades. Dana 

witnessed the last two X-IE flights. He worked on the X-IS, initially as an engineer, 

later as a chase pilot, and finally as a project pilot, making sixteen flights, including 

two at altitudes above 50 miles. He also made the I 99th X-IS flight in I968, bringing 

the program to a close. 

Dana also was deeply involved in the lifting-body programs. Following the success of the M2-FI flights there was a change in focus at the FRC. Rather than build 

the lightweight M-IL and lenticular vehicles as planned, NASA Headquarters instead 

approved a heavyweight-lifting-body program. The two initial vehicles would be a 

modified version of the M-2 shape, called the M2-F2, and a new Langley design called 

the HL-IO. Both would be launched from the B-52 and be capable ofreaching speeds 

approaching Mach 2. After the M2-F2 was damaged in a landing accident, it was 

rebuilt as the M2-F3. The Air Force also became involved with lifting bodies, building 

the X-24A. This vehicle was later modified into a new shape, emerging as the X-24B. 

Dana would make the last powered flight of a lifting-body vehicle when he flew the X24B. This also was the last flight of a rocket-powered manned vehicle at Dryden. 

Q: I wanted to ask you some questions about your 

career and some of the programs you worked on and NEW FA S 

the folks you worked with. I guess to start offwith, Two newcomers, one former employee, and 

when did you first start working at Edwards? an ex-Army lieutenant are this week's New 

Faces. 

From Bakersfield is William H. Dana, an A: I came to NASA the day NASA was formed­ aeronautical research engineer assigned to 


October Stability and Control.
 I, I958. It transitioned from the National In Instrument Operations is Byron L. 


Advisory Committee for Aeronautics to the National 
 Coburn, an electronic equipment mechanic 


Aeronautics and Space Administration. Just coinci­ from Los Angeles. 


A former employee, no'W assigned to the dentally, that was the day I picked to come to work. Instrumentation Division, is aeronautical 

research engineer George F. Schwartz, Jr., 

from Albuquerque, New Mexico. Q: So was that the High-Speed Flight Station at that No'W serving in a civilian capacity is 

time? 	 former Army lieutenant John P. Smith, an 

aeronautical research engineer in Data Reduction. 

A: Yes, it was the High-Speed Flight Station under 

the old administration and the new one. Then not too 

116 
John Hedgepeth. 

SIGN UP NOW FOR POLIO SHOTS 

Friday, October 10, is the deadline for polio inoculativn sign-ups. In_ line ~ith ~he policy 

of no-sign-up, no-shot, all employees desiring inoculations are urged to re~1ster 1mme?iately 

with HSFS nurse Elinore Berger. An accurate count is necessary so that suff1cient vacc1ne may be 

arranged for. 

The inoculations are being made available at no cost to HSFS employees only by the NASA as 

a follow-up to the two clinics held previously by the Public Healt~ Departm~nt. (The Depar~ment 

recently announced discontinuation of the clinics.) Mrs. Berger Wlll aam:n1ster th~ shots 1n 

the Station dispensary in accordance with a schedule to be posted on Stat1on bullet1n boards. 

Q: What were some of the earliest programs that you were involved with? 

A: Interestingly enough, I spent a year in engineering before I transferred to the pilo

office. And my first assignment was as a simulator pilot on a rudimentary performan

simulation of the X -15. 

Q: What did you do after that? 

A: I was project engineer on stability and control of an F -107 fighter we had [at the 

FRC]. I was just barely getting my teeth into that project when I was transferred to t

pilot's office in September of 1959. When I got to the pilot's office, it consisted of ch

pilot Joe Walker, and Stan Butchart, Jack McKay and Milt Thompson. So there were 

four other pilots in the office. We also had a Navy pilot named Forrest Peterson. Com

mander Forrest Peterson was assigned to the [FRC] pilot's office as the Navy X-15 

pilot. So I guess there were actually five pilots in the office when I got here. 

Q: Were you living in Lancaster at the time? 

A: Yes. I lived at Lancaster from the time I came to work in 1958 until we built a hou

in Tehachapi in 1972. So I lived in Lancaster 14 years. 

M 2 Makes First 

: I'll bet you saw it change a lot over those years too. 

Supersonic Flight : Well, Lancaster had about 25,000 people when I came to wo

ere. Palmdale had about 8,000. The M2 Lifting Body was scheduled 

to be flown by Flight Fjesearch Center 

: So was the X -15 the first flight program that you were in for 

pilot Bill Dana on its first supersonic ong time? 

flight earlier this week. A top speed of almost 7oo nli les per hour was attained for : The first flight program that I flew was a variable stability 

the seven minute flight. -100. It was an airplane designed and modified by the Ames R

117 
y pq

aircraft through all pha~es ~f :nd 

including take-off, navlgat1on, 

lan~i::~ent da.y aircraft hav.e .l~r.ge 

glassed canopies for pilot VlSl.bl.!:.~! 

requirements: ofH;;::::~· area on 


~:::lea::~u;_e future that are cap­


able of orbital flight and atmo~­

he ric reentry would create serl­


p blems for the vehicles. The 


o?:s~roarea would require some 


~art of heat shielding to protect 

lass from the heat genera:ed 

~uer~g reentry, and still P~:-7~e enough visibility fo~ the ~~acre~ land the vehicle. ThlS wo .th 

ate weight restrict~nsre:~;!gw:he 

desi~n ~ro:~::;~ of yexposed pilot 

was able to accomplish all of the 

normal phases of flight including 

take -off and landing with little restriction due to the use of the 

optical system. 

Based on the results of the first 

phase of the program, plans are 

being made to configure a high 

speed jet aircraft with a similar 

optical system for evaluation. 

Once SST flights 

with the A-5A 

were completed, 

it was returned to 

North American in 

late 1963 bearing 

holiday greetings. 

(E-10750). 

:~:~~~ty area' the severity of bility to the pilot. A~ onl rL. these problems can then be re- the system resulted :sedy glass 

du~:~rentpossible solutions under squar~u:n:~~~ :!fo::d the pilot 

to this problem include the area {Continued on page 3) 

::d~f telescopes, small television , 

- z

the Army• with two wide ange e 


monocular telescopes. These te~ ­

scopes were mounted in the. alr­


craft in such a manner that 1t allowed the evaluation pilot, Center 

research pilot Bill Dana, to fly :he 

aircraft from the rear s:;st u:~~~ 

the optical . ~y~t.em as other pilot source of v1s1b1.hty• An 

then flew in the front seat to act as 

safety pilot, if needed. . The optical system consl.sted of 

the two wide angle, with one-to-o~e 

power' telescopes mounted, ~ot ~ 

parallel as in a. nor~l ~:l.:o:­ binoculars, but Wl.th thetr run 

vergent to the pilot at :::rn;;::= 

55 degrees. A sheet ru h" h . g hood was installed w .1.~ 

~iminatedany ~ther sourc; ~~--~;-s~­

search Center. Then they got out ofthe fighter aircraft business. In 1960 we brought the 

variable stability F -100 down from Ames, and I was the project pilot on it for probably 

the entire time it was here. Then I went into a supersonic transport experiment where 

we flew an A-SA Vigilante up and down the airways at almost Mach 2, determining 

where the traffic control snags would be in handling a supersonic transport. Almost 

concurrently with that I did a fly-by-optics program, first in an L-19 liaison airplane. 

Then we transferred the optics over to an F -104. And I flew and landed it using an optical path rather than a window. 

118 
selected for that initially? 

A: I have no idea why I was picked for the X-15. It's possible that because I had sh

interest in both the X-15 and the M2lifting bodies that I was considered motivated 

do that kind ofwork. And that's the only reason I could give you why I was selected

But I was. And I accepted the X-15 assignment without fanfare. I just said, 'Yes, I w

do it,' and never regretted it. 

Q: And what year did you join the X-15 program? 

VOL 5 Edwards, California ISSUE l January 4, 1963 

FRC Receives New Addition To Aircraft Inventory 

A-5A For 

SST Studies A new addition to the stable of 

aircraft currently in use by the 

Flight Research Center is the ASA (A3J) jet aircraft that is on loan 

from the United States Navy. This 

aircraft will be used in support of 

FRC studies being conducted for 

the projected supersonic transport. 

TI-e jet aircraft, called the Vigilante, was delivered from the 

Columbus, Ohio division of North 

American Aviation, builder of the 

aircraft, where minor aircraft 

modifications were made. 

As the A-SA is capable of sustained supersonic flight, the primary use of this aircraft will be to 

study the problems that may be enr--.untered in the terminal area of 

) traffic control operations with 

tTansport aircraft of supersonic 

speeds. 

Working in close cooperation 

with officials of the Federal Aviation Agency, engineers of the Flight 

Research Center will plan and conduct supersonic flights with the 

aircraft on assigned' federal airways artd into high air t:raffic density areas, such as Los Angeles. 

The results of the air traffic control of these,flights, and the flights 

~mselves, are expected to provide the basis for the formulation 

of future control plans that will be 

necessary for the safe operation of 

commercial supersonic jets. 

A-5A cont. 

Florida where he underwent pilot 

checkout procedures and flew several flights in an P.. -SA. 

Bill LePage has been assigned 

as crew chief for the aircraft and 

will attend school for 6 V{eeks in 

preparation. Four other FRC persOnnel will be involved in spenal 

training for care of the aircraft 

and its systems. 

The two place aircraft is powered by two General Electric J79-8 

Jet engines, each producing 10,900 

pounds of thrust without after burner and 17, 000 pounds thrust with 

after burner. 

Capable of flight at speeds at 


Mach l, the Vigilante was flown to 


an altitude of 91,450 feet m Dec­


emb~r of 1960. This established 


a world's altitude record_ for land­


based jet aircraft carrying a pay­


load of 1000 kilograms. 


handling qualities instrumentation 

that is used on most research aircraft, Among these instruments 

will be devices for measuring and 

recording angle of attack, sideslip, degree of co~trol movement, 

and roll rates. Specialized instruments that will later be mounted on 

the B-70 for m-easurement of skin 

friction will be pre -tested on this 

aircraft. 

Five FRC personnel received 

a total of $220.00 under the FRC 

Incentive Awards Program. A 

singular award of $100. 00 was high 

for the group. 

Bernard Gregg received $100,00 

for his suggestion on increasing 

the reliability of the TV system on 

the B -52 launch aircraft. 

Two awards were made to David 

Stoddard for his suggestions concerning installation of a portable 

shut-off valve in the liquid nitrogen 

service line and an adJustable 

gauge and reference indicator for 

the liqutd oxygen service trailer. 

A check was given to Lewis 

Stults for his improved method of 

High Range tracking data selectwn 

and distribution. A tlmer for engine runs earned Charles Koda1 an 

incentive award for his efforts. 

Chester Ber goer received an award 

for a hydrogen peroxide Jettlson 

adapter. 

The use of these added instruments will also allow Flight Research Center engineers to evaluate the low speed characteristics 

of the A -SA in different landing 

approaches as they would apply to 

a supersonic transport. 

In anticipation for actual flight 

by the FRC, training began this 

past Fall. William H. Dana, the 

assigned :research pilot to this 

' project, spent several weeks at the 

U. S. Naval Air Station, Sanford, 

A: It was probably in the spring of 1965 

I was assigned to it and forced to drop of

M2-F2. And it wasn't until November 4th 

that year that I finally flew my first flight. 

was the eleventh of 12 pilots to fly the X-

I entered X-15 pilot training with Air For

Captain Pete Knight. He flew a little bit 

before I did and was the tenth man to fly 

airplane. But Pete and I flew concurrently 

the way to the end ofthe program, literall

flew 16 flights in the X-15, reached a Ma

number of about 5.5 and an altitude of ab

,000 feet. 

about 59 miles, more or less. 

earned your Astronaut Wi

Dana and the A-5A, one of the first 

projects he worked on. (E-1 0630) 

1 
tions that may exist with the operation of supersonic transports. 

The NASA program investigated 

possible air traffic control problems and will provide actual flight 

data for the planning of future 

supersonic transport flights. 

on that one. 

A: Yes, you've got that right. 

Q: What was a typical X-15 

A: Well, there were two uu~~''"'' 

you'd launch, light the vlll'~lll"'· , 

pitch attitude, usually 25-40 

until burnout. The airplane 

from 200,000 feet to 300,000 

selected. By the time the engine 

you were in space shortly after 

is a two -place jet aircraft built for 

the US Navy by North American 

Aviation. Because of the Navy's 

interest in the national supersonic 

transport program, the ASA was 

loaned to NASA. The 70 foot airballistically with no control over your 

tained your attitude while the airplane went where it would like a 

baseball goes where you throw it. 

Then there was the heating research mission in which you pushed 

over at somewhere between 60,000 and 80,000 feet, and came 

level, and flew along fast at low altitude in the atmosphere. That 

flight remained in the atmosphere the entire time, was flown with 

aerodynamic controls, and didn't use ballistic controls. And it 

usually was a shorter flight than the altitude mission. The typical 

altitude mission went about 11 minutes, with about four minutes of 

that in the traffic pattern. I remember some ofmy heating flights 

were seven or eight minutes total from launch to touch down. 

Q: So the X-15 was basically a flying laboratory? 

H. Dana made approximately 21 

flights along federal airways that 

"entered Los Angeles. These 

flights followed two flight plans 

that were ba'!ed upon earlier NASA 

s~dies, one for a variable-sweep 

wmg con!iguration "and the other 

for a delta-wing "c.i,:,.ard configuration. 

Starting at an altitude of about 

50, 000 feet and a speed of Mach 

I. 7 (_I. 7 times the speed of sound), 

the Slmulated supersonic transport 

portion of the flight began with a 

deceleration to a speed of Mach 

1. 4, where a descent to lower altitudes was initiated. During this 

descent, the aircraft was slowed to 

subsonic speed above 30, 000 feet 

and reached an altitude of 20, 000 

feet at a speed of about 340m. p. h., 

not much faster than present day 

Jet transports. 

According to FAA official Joe 

Tymczyszyn, air traffic controllers reported that they experienced no added difficulty in 

desc~nding, integrating or landing 

the Slmulated supersonic transport 

a~ the Los Angeles Airport along 

Wlth other arrival traffic. However, the subsequent take-off and 

climb out did present more dif _ 

ficulty due to the increased performance ofthe aircraft. Special 

consideration had to be given to 

the faster rate of climb, critical 

fuel useage and the possible sonic 

disturbance. 

Program manager Donald L. 

Hughes stated that in order to ac _ 

quir~ operation flight data, cruise 

por~10ns of the simulated supersome transport flights were also 

made. This included several night 

operations and a round trip flight 

between Los Angeles, California 

and Albuquerque, New Mexico at 

a cruise speed of Mach I. S. ' 

A: That's correct. It was a research airplane and it did research into a number of disciplines, including stability and control, weightlessness, heating, structural loads. It did 

a whole raft of different research experiments, both in and out ofthe atmosphere. Then 

later in its career it did a lot of piggyback work. By the last year ofmy participation in 

the program we were doing piggyback work carrying experiments. They were mostly 

space related and included high-altitude cameras, taking pictures ofthe stars, or even 

looking downward from high altitude. We did Apollo-related research. Looking at a 

horizon scanner for the Apollo was one mission I remember. 

120 
ggy g 

do these days. feat '!Of 11Perry's Peruvian Princes 11 by 11 Jacks

Juggling Jailbirds." 

A well done to the Exchange Council for a 

planned event. A: The rebuilding of an X-15 was 

interesting. It's hard to say whether it 

would be done today or not. It would 

probably depend on how much national consequence there was to not rebuilding th

airplane. But X-15 #3 blew up on the engine test stand before it ever flew. And it w

decided almost immediately to rebuild it. It's interesting to note that when they did 

rebuild X-15 #3, they equipped it with a self-adaptive flight control system which 

included command augmentation, and self-adaptive dampers, and several autopilot 

modes. So it became the controls research airplane ofthe three X-15s. It's interestin

that only X-15 #3 was allowed to go significantly above 250,000 feet, significantly 

above the design altitude, because it had the autopilot modes, including a heading h

mode, and was very stable when out ofthe atmosphere. 

Q: What was it like preparing for a flight in terms of suiting up and getting ready in 

pre-flight? 

A: An X-15 flight day was an interesting day. Traditionally they had sent a weather 

ship uprange with some other pilot in it than the mission pilot to check the condition 

ofthe lake beds, and to check the weather to make sure the pilot could find his way t

the uprange emergency lakebeds if need be. I believe I established a tradition offly

my own weather flight. That way I got practice. The day ofthe flight I got to look at 

actual weather and, equally interesting, I got to look at the flight day winds. Because 

winds in the traffic pattern could affect your touch-down accuracy. So I'd come out 

about sunrise and fly an uprange flight, do some practice landings at the uprange 

lake beds, check the winds and weather, and then come back down, park, get out ofm

flying suit and into my pressure suit, and climb in the X-15. And usually I was in the 

X-15 by, say, eight o'clock in the morning, strapped in and ready to go. Then we'd f

it usually 45 minutes to an hour uprange before we turned around and pointed it bac

Edwards and launched. 

Anybody that's followed the program closely knows that we always launched 

over a suitable dry lake to which we could proceed ifthe engine didn't light. Then 

there were three or four intermediate dry lakes along the way that we'd use when the 

rocket engine had run long enough that you couldn't get back to the launch lake, but 

didn't have enough energy to proceed forward to Edwards. Then we would go to an 

intermediate lake. 

Q: I've read some of our documents regarding the selection of lake beds and how the

were tested for hardness and load-bearing ability. Apparently they took a light plane 

there. 

A: Traditionally we used two airplanes. We had an R4D, which was the Navy versio

ofthe DC-3 [or C-4 7]. That was one of our lake bed sampling airplanes. And the oth

121 
Dana spent several months in ex­ approximately 50

/o and climb to a ht~self with the X-15. The 125­

tensive preparation for the flight. maxinmm altitude of 74, 000 feet. mtle trip normally takes about 

He and Air Force Captain William After hitting a planned top speed of nine minutes. 

"Pete" Knight were selected earli­ about 2700 miles per hour, he was A native of Bakersfield, Calier this year for the X-15 program. slated to perform several control fornia, Mr. Dana is a graduate of 

Captain Knight made his first X -15 (Continued on page 4) the U.~. Military Academy, at 

·········~~~,~""""1"~~~NNI,,,I,~"~~~"'~N~N~~,,~,~~,~~~~,~,n"I~N~~""I"•••••••N,~~~~"~"~~,,~~,~~~N~·n ;~:tt :~~~\h~f~;r s;:;~:~ ~:a;be~ " tatned his master's degree from 

U.S.C. in 1958. 

Prior to entering the X-15 prowas an Aero Commander 680F that we took uprange . We took one gram, he was assigned to several 

Center research programs. He ofthose two airplanes up, usually the Gooney Bird [R4D] because it has flown the lightweight lifting 

had the wide tires and the low footprint. And we'd do a touch-and-go 	 body, and was project pilot on the 

supersonic transport program.

on the lake bed and see how it felt and then fly by and look at our 

tracks where we'd touched and gone, to see how soft it was. Then if 

we were convinced it was hard enough to support the weight ofthe C-4 7, we would land 

and park. We had two different tests we used. We had a steel ball-I guess it was probably four or five inches in diameter-which we dropped from a height ofsix feet, and then 

measured the diameter ofthe indentation caused by that ball. That gave us some feel for 

the hardness ofthe lake bed. Then we had a spike, probably 30 inches long, that we drove 

into the lakebed to see that there was resistance to the driving force all the way down-to 

make sure there wasn't just a thin crust and mud beneath it. So those were usually the 

two tools we used to determine the hardness ofthe lake bed. 

Q: It was the steel ball that I had heard of. I guess ifit left an imprint three and a quarter inches or less it was suitable hardness. Do you know about how much that thing 

weighed? 

A: I'm going to take a guess-12 to 15 pounds is about like a high school shot put. But I 

don't even remember the diameter of it. 

Q: None ofthe documents I saw have that. I guess the planning of the high range 

flights encountered a lot of different obstacles, including various air spaces and other 

aspects of getting the aircraft from point A to point B. There 

were a lot ofreferences to flights out of either Delamar Lake or 

,, " Use or Lose Leave Reminder Mud Lake that would have to cross through controlled airFederal leave policy provides 

space. Do you remember any special concerns with that? that annual leave can be accumulated to a maximum of 30 days (240 

A: No, I don't. I filed a flight plan every time I went uprange 	 hours) which can be carrie-d over 

from one leave year to the next. and went uprange under instrument flight rules, and then got Balanc'es in excess of the above clearance to the launch point, and clearance to descend, flew will be lost as of the end of the 

my approach. Then ifI wanted to shoot another approach at leave year. 


that same lakebed I had to get clearance to climb back up in 


the area ofpositive control which, interestingly enough, was 


24,000 feet in those days, rather than 18,000 feet. I don't ever remember going uprange 


below 24,000 and coming back below. But I remember when I'd shoot multiple ap122 
now. I think you'd still probably get pretty good service out of FAA if you wanted t

uprange now. 

Knight Makes First X-15 flight; 

McKay Goes Over 50 Miles 

The first of two pilots selected 

last sprfng to fly the X -15 made 

his first flight in the,rocket-powered aircraft last week. Air Force 

Captain William (Pete) J. Knight 

piloted the craft in the 15lst flight 

in the joint NASA-USAF X-15 research program. 

The other new X-15 pilot, NASA 

research pilot William Dana, is 

expected to make his first X -15 

flight within a short time. 

Captain Knight, Mansfield, 0­

hio, was selected as one of the 

original pilots for the since cancelled X -20 DynaSoar. He is 

presently assigned to the Air Force 

Flight Test Center at Edward.s. 

Captain Knight was air -launched 

from the B -52 near Hidden Hills, 

a dry lakebed on the CaliforniaNevada state line. After igniting 

the X -15 's rocket engine, he reduced his power control setting to 

approximately 50o/o. He then 

climbed to a peak altitude of 

74, 000 feet where he performed 

severalfamiliarization maneuvers, 

such as, turns and rudder pulses. 

His maximum speed was 2, 761 

mph. 

Earlier in the week, NASA research pilot Jack McKay became 

the second civilian to fly higher 

than 50 miles. He piloted the 

number three X-15 to 300,000 

feet, almost 58 miles high. Th 

fifty mile mark is the criteria' 

used by the military for the awarding of astronaut wings. 

Dana and X-15 #3 

on the lakebed. He 

made the 199th and 

final X-15 flight. 

(E-16809) 

Q: Did you ever work with the X-20 Dyna-Soar program? 

A: Yes, I did. I was assigned for over a year as a pilot consu

tant on the Dyna-Soar. I traveled to Boeing probably once e

third month to fly the simulator and look at pilot displays. 

Q: Any thoughts on whether that was a good project? 

A: Oh, the X-20 was an excellent program. It should have b

flown, and it was canceled for political rather than scientific 

reasons. Had it been flown, why, the Space Shuttle designers 

would have had a lot more information from which to do the

design. 

Q: So you made one flight in the M2-F 1 lifting body? 

A: That's correct. 

Q: And was that in preparation for flying the M2-F2? 
198th flight, and the 199th flight is 

scheduled for early this month. The exact 

schedule for the 200th flight has not been 

finalized, but there is an excellent chance 

the flight could occur in October. 

The X-15 aircraft has already made 

more pure rocket-powered flights than any 

other rocket-powered airplane. Using 

total flight time as a basis for comparison, 

the X-15 has already flown more than one 

and one-half times around the world in 

less than 30 hours. 

How long the flight program will 

continue is not definitely known. At the 

present time, the number one X-15 is 

carrying a high priority experiment. and 

the number of flights remaining depend 

upon the results obtained from the experiment. 

Regardless of how many flights are 

made, the flight research program has far 

exceeded the original goals established for 

the X-15 in 1954. 

It is difficult to establish a definite 

date as the birth date of the X-15. How· 

ever, as far back as 1952, Center engineers 

as well as engineers from other government 

facilities were attempting to identify all 

the major problems and possible solutions 

that could occur in the development of an. 

advanced research airplane and aid in the 

advancement of aeronautics. The jump 

in flight performance from the research 

aircraft of those days to the proposed 

X-15 type aircraft was significant: from 

Mach 3 to Mach 7 and from 130,000 

feet to several hundred thousand feet. 

By mid-1954, a formal technical 

proposal and operation plan had been 

formulated by NASA's predecessor, the 

nautics, and presented to other government agencies. The Air Force and Navy 

agreed to the proposal and, in December 

1954, a Memorandum of Understanding 

was approved assigning responsibilities for 

the forthcoming joint research venture. 

The Memorandum was also responsible for stating the principles of the program which were based upon the resolution adopted by NACA's Committed on 

Aerodynamics on October 5, 1954. In 

part, this resolution stated .. 'The necessity of maintaining supremacy in the air 

continues to place great urgency on solving 

the problems of flight with man-carrying 

aircraft at greater speeds and extreme altitudes... 

Construction of the number one 

X-15 was completed in October 1958 by 

North American Rockwell. Following the 

contractor demonstration flights, the X-15 

began a flight program to gradually expand the flight envelope to the design goals 

of 250,000 feet and a speed of six times 

the speed of sound. (The original speed 

:I don't remember exactly 

why it was decided that I'd fly the 

M2-Fl plywood lifting body. Jerry Gentry was getting ready to fly the 

M2-F2. And he and I were selected to fly the M2-Fl and were both supposed to get multiple flights. By the time I was selected, I was no longer 

an M2-F2 pilot. But I probably had been in training for the M2-Fl flight 

when I was still an M2-F2 pilot and was going to be allowed to fly the 

flights just as a reward for having worked hard on the M2-F2. Anyway, 

the day of the flight came in July of 1965. And it was raining that day. 

We were out on the lakebed with the C-47 and the M2-Fl, and there was 

enough rain on the lakebed that there was mud caking on the bottoms of 

my boots. I remember walking around with half an inch of mud on my 

boots. I suggested to Milt [Thompson] that we wait for a more suitable day. But he pointed out that the cloud base was above the release 

altitude so we wouldn't be flying on the tow line in the clouds. He just 

124 

was started that eventually reached a peak 

altitude of 354,200 feet in the summer 

of 1963. 

Interspersed with and following the 

altitude flights were an extensive series of 

flights to obtain aerodynamic, particularly 

heating, data at altitudes of approximately 

100,000 feet. These flights, maybe not so 

glamorous as the record flights, were some 

of the most demanding flights made in the 

X-15 research program. It was during 

this series that the number two ship 

made its 22nd flight with Major Bob 

Rushworth at the controls. This flight 

attained skin temperatures of over 1300 

degrees F., the highest temperatures ever 

measured on the bare skin of the X-15. 

By the time the X-15 had made its 

1OOth flight in early 1964, it had accomplished most of the original goals. However, the airplane had so successfully 

demonstrated its ability to fly at extreme 

altitudes and speeds that many scientific 

experimenters throughout the country had 

requested permission to have their experiments carried on the X-15. In order to 

accommodate the most pressing of these 

experiments, the X-15 continued to fly.' 

Over 25 experiments dealing with such 

subject matter as star tracking, horizon 

scanning, micrometeorite collection, and 

the like have been carried during the past 

several years. 

Even though the prime purpose of 

these recent flights has been to carry the 

experiments, aerodynamic data has been 

collected on every flight. 

Last fall, the number two ship, 

equipped with extra propellant tanks and 

a protective ablative coating, increased the 

speed mark to 4520 mph, 6.7 times the 

speed of sound. It was this ship that was 

to have been used for the flight test of 

the experimental ramjet that is now 

under development. But budgetary considerations have limited the X-15 flight 

tests and restricted the ramjet to theoretical ground testing. 

There probably won't be a 300th 

flight of Project 1226. Some time later 

this year · or perhaps it will be delayed 

until next year the number one X-15 

will be retired from active flight test and 

take its well-deserved place in the Smithsonian Institution- and history. 
Dana and the 

X-248, in which 

he made the last 

powered flight by 

a rocket-powered 

research aircraft, 

in September 

1975. The boots 

he wore in this 

picture were a 

non-standard pink. 

(E-29038) 

formed a giant lens and the lens de-magnified w

I saw through it. So I was looking through this b

lens at the lakebed and the lakebed runway. The 

lakebed runway looked like it was four to five m

away. So I decided immediately that I wasn't go

to be able to land using the nose window as visu

reference. I went about setting up attitude and ai

speed and figuring out what I was going to look at while I did my flare and landing. 

When I looked back through the nose window again to see what was going on, the 

water had all gone away. And to this day I don't know where that water went to. Bu

the nose window was clear again, and I flared and landed. I was supposed to get oth

flights in the M2-F1, but circumstances just worked out that I wasn't allowed to. 

Q: Did you have any initial misgivings about flight in the wingless aircraft? 

A: Well, I certainly did when Milt was doing tow tests. Milt was being towed by 

a 1963 Pontiac convertible that we bought especially to tow the M2-Fl. I wasn't 

so sure how it was all going to work out when Milt was doing the ground tows. 

But when I saw him on the tow line behind the C-4 7 and he was still upright, then 

my reservations kind ofwent away and I X-15'S Depart Center 

became a lifting body fan. The number one X-15, famous for 

hypersonic speeds and towering altitudes, 

Q: The M2-F3-was that the first of the 	 has made its final flight. Unmanned and 

heavyweights that you flew? 	 without power, the X-15 departed the 

Center in the middle of the night inside 

A: No-the M2 was of a C-133 transport. still being rebuilt when 

Along with its crew, X-15 pilot Pete I finished the X-15 program. And I flew the 

Knight was on hand to make sure the HL-1 0 for a year just learning how to fly liftfamous aircraft was put aboard safely. It 

ing bodies and getting ready for the M2-F3 arrived at noon the next day at Andrews 

when it came along. So I was a project pilot, AFB, where it was shipped by truck to 

along with Pete Hoag, on the HL-1 0 in 1969 the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, 

and 1970 before the M2-F3 was ready. D. C. 

The number one X-15,which made 

Q: Were the first and final flights in the program, there similarities between the 

will be displayed between the Wright HL-10 and X-15 flights? 

Brother's Kitty Hawk Flyer and Lindberg's 

Spirit of St. Louis. A: Yes. The HL-10 landing pattern was Accompanying the number one ship 

just about identical to that of the X-15. It were crew chief Herm Dorr, Ed Nice, 

felt very comfortable. The HL-1 0 was a Don Hall, and Ed Sabo who will install 

nice-flying airplane, particularly by the time the X-15 in the museum. Formal cereI got in it. On first flight the HL-1 0 had had monies marking the turnover will be held 

flow separation at high angle of attack over in early June. 

the vertical fins. And it didn't fly very well at 

125 
from the HL1 0? molds have been sent to the Nor­ Additional wind tunnel studies 

throp facility where new leading were conducted at NASA's Langley 

edges for the HL-10 may be fab­ Research Center to varify this and A: Yes, the M2 didn't have as good a glide 	 ricated. then to suggest possible changes. 

The new leading edges will be Langley has suggested two dif­ ratio as the HL-1 0. It flew its final approach slightly curved so as to force more ferent modifications: the curving 

at about 25 degrees, and I think the HL-1 0 air over the HL-l0 1 s control sur- of the leading edges or thickening 

was somewhere around 18 or 20 [degrees] 

at 300 knots. So the M2 flew steeper and it wind tunnels is now being evaluareally did not have as good handling qualities as the HL-1 0. It was cer­ ted in the Center's HL-10 simulator. Following the simulator tainly airworthy and it proved that by flying 26 flights as the M2-F3. So it studies, one of the two modifications will be made to the HL-10. was airworthy, but it just wasn't as good flying or as good a glider as the 

HL-10. 

Q: And then did you get into the X-24 program? 

A: I served as a chase pilot for the X-24A. And I was named as a project pilot on the 

X-24B, but I really never flew it until the program was over. I got a couple of powered 

flights, as a matter of fact, just as a courtesy after the program was over. But I really 

was never a part of the X-24 program. 

Q: And you flew the last powered flight of the X-24B? 

A: Yes, that's correct. That was in September of 1975. I flew the last rocket-powered 

flight flown out of Edwards. 

Q: We have the videotape ofthe pre-flight for that and also post-flight, after you've 

exited the aircraft. And I noticed your flight boots appear to be a little bit non-standard. 

A: Yes. Well, those flight boots were kind of famous. I had gone to pick up a new pressure suit in probably '67 or '68~from the David Clark Company in Worcester, Massachusetts. The contract called for black flying boots to go with the pressure suit. The 

company gave me white boots. And I didn't think it was fitting for a NASA pilot to be 

wandering around in white boots. So I told them I didn't accept the boots~! wanted a 

pair ofblack boots. So the company eventually got me a pair of black boots and then 

gave me the white boots as a gift. But they were painted pink with yellow daisies on 

them. And I did fly those boots a couple of times, including the last powered flight of 

the X-24B. 

Q: Now once we finally came around to having a Space Shuttle, where they abandoned 

the idea of using a lifting body configuration, how did you feel about that after all the 

lifting body work~then you go to a more conventional~ 

A: I was disappointed, to say the least. We put a lot of effort into the lifting bodies. And 


we were very proud of them and thought they were nice-flying airplanes. They had 


good volume to them for their size. They had a lot ofvolume compared to a wing fuse126 
new assignment. 

(E-20462) 

g y g, 

M2-F2 that made the first heavyweight lifting body flight on July 12,1966, with Center 

prlot Milt Thompson at the controls. 

. Six months later, Bruce Peterson flew the HL-10 on its maiden flight. It was this 

flrght that disclosed the serious flow separation problems that required additional wind 

lage. But there was an interesting requirement for 

the Space Shuttle-that it was required to have a 

payload bay 15 feet in diameter and 60 feet long. 

And that payload bay of that size and shape just 

suited itself better to a fuselage and wing than it 

did to a lifting body. There's no reason the Space 

Shuttle could not have been a lifting body. It 

probably would have been heavier than the present shape is ifyou'd had to enclose that 15-by60 payload bay in the interior of a lifting body. 

Q: Of all the lifting body designs that were 

studied, which of them was considered the best 

possibility for a Shuttle-type vehicle? 

A: I can't answer which lifting body would 

have been the best for a Space Shuttle. I think 

the M2 was automatically voted out because 

of its poor glide ratio, its poor performance. 

NASA, and Dryden in particular, were looking 

at the HL-1 0 as a Space Shuttle candidate. I 

think Langley looked at that too, because the 

HL-10 was Langley's design. So I know that 

Dryden looked at the HL-1 0 as a Space Shuttle 

candidate, and I don't remember anything that 

disqualified it. I think it flew very well even as 

tunnel studies and subsequent modifications. The HL-10 did not return to active 

flight status until some 15 months later. 

In May of 1967 the M-;2 was severely 

damaged in a landing accident. The next 

year, following several months of "inspection" by the Center and Northrop, a decision was announced to partially restore 

the M-2. Modified with a new center fin, 

the redesigned M2-F3 was returned to 

the Center and made its first flight in 

1970. 

Following minor modifications to 

the leading edge of its vertical fins, the 

HL-10 returned to active flight status in 

March of 1968 and continued through 

June of 1970. The first of the lifting 

bodies to use a rocket motor for propulsion, the HL-10 flew to an altitude of 29 

kilometers (90,000 feet) and a speed rof 

1975 kilometers per hour (1220 mph). 

An Air Force-designed lifting body, 

originally called the SV-5J, later changed 

to X-24A, was delivered in late 1967. 

With USAF Major Jerry Gentry at the 

controls, the X-24A made its first flight 

on March 17, 1969. Center research pilot 

John Manke piloted the X-24A on its final 

flight on June 4, 1971, prior to its conversion to the X-24B. 

As of this time, it is planned to continue flying the M-2 for the rest of this 

year's flying season. Several other pilots 

wi II probably be checked out. 

The X-24B turnover ceremonies 

marked nine months of work to convert 

the lifting body to the new and longer 

shape. The X-248 was accepted by a representative of the Air Force's Flight Dynamics Laboratory. Center Deputy Director De Beeler and project pi lot John 

Manke officially represented the Center 

at the <ceremonies. 

Following delivery, the new shape 

will be readied for flight, now tentatively 

scheduled for next spring. 

a big airplane, and would have made a fine Space Shuttle. I don't 

know that NASA ever looked at the X-24, which was an Air Force shape. I 

127 
ay woed o, 

tat. t does etotat you woed ote . 

A: No, not really true. As the YF-12 program came to a conclusion, they gave everyone 

in the pilot's office one ride in the YF-12, one ride to Mach 3. And I got my one ride. 

Then on the fifth landing ofthe Space Shuttle, in the approach and landing tests, the 

Space Shuttle landed on the main runway. And it got into an elevon rate limiting situation which caused pilot-induced oscillations in both pitch and roll. So because of those 

pilot-induced oscillations, NASA-including Dryden-started a massive campaign to 

understand pilot-induced oscillations, to see what had caused them in the Space Shuttle 

and what we could do to correct them. 

Dryden flew a multitude of airplanes looking for pilot-induced oscillations, including 

the Calspan total in-flight simulator and the Dryden F-8 Digital Fly-By-Wire with time 

delays added to its control system. Another airplane they looked at because they didn't 

think it would be susceptible to pilot-induced oscillations was the YF-12. They wanted 

pilots who hadn't flown the airplane a lot so that the pilot experience wouldn't cover 

for aircraft deficiencies. So Einar Enevoldson and I were selected as the two novice 

pilots in the YF-12 who would look at pilot-induced oscillations. We went out in a flying suit, not in a pressure suit, and flew simulated flame-out landings and conventional 

power-on landings for a whole tank of gas looking for pilot-induced oscillation. I was 

unable to get any in the YF -12, and my memory of it is that Einar was not able to get 

any either. So I got two flights in the YF -12 and that was all. I really shouldn't have it 

in my bio because I didn't fly it except as a guest pilot. 

Q: Was that in the YF-12A-orA: Yes, it was in the YF-12A-the 935, which was a true YF-12. 

Q: Right, of course the YF-12C being an SR-71. 

Bill Dana To Receive Haley Space Award 

Bill Dana. Dryden Flight Re- to the advancement of the arts, Dana served as pilot on the 

search Center pilot, has been sciences or technology of astro­ manned lifting body program at 

selected to receive the 1976 Haley nautics." Dryden Flight Research Center at 

Space Flight Award, presented Dana will receive the award for Edwards, flying the . HL-10, 

by the American Institute of his "outstanding contribution to M2-F3, and X-248 lifting bodies. 

Aeronautics and Astronautics. the M2-F3 Control Systems Prior to this, he was project pilot 

Dana will accept the award at Research in 1972 and continuous on the X-15 research airplane 

the International Astronautical contributions as a test pilot on program, making 16 flights in the 

Federation Conference on Friday, many aerospace vehicles." rocket-powered aircraft. 

October 15 at a banquet in the 

Grand Hotel in Anaheim. 

The award, named in honor of 

Andrew G. Haley, one of the 

founders of the American Rocket 

Society, is given "for an 

outstanding contribution by an 

astronaut or flight test personnel 

128 
air-launched naar Lancaster and 
 in the sequence. Because the [three] YF-12As 

then used the XLR-11 rocket they built [had] tail numbers 06934, 935, and 

engine to climb to a maximum 6. So in order to make it stay in the sequence the

altitude of 71,000 feet and peak 

velocity of 990 mph. it 937, which was actually assigned to a differ

Following engine shutdown, he. 

And your bio also says you worked on the Conv

0­

A: Yes, I flew co-pilot on the Convair 990 right up until I ended my flying portion o

my career. I was co-pilot to Gordon Fullerton on that and was looking forward to the 

simulated Shuttle landings. But I never got that far in the program. 

Q: Do you have any anecdotes about some of the people you worked with such as M

Thompson, Dick Day, Hubert Drake, and Neil Armstrong? 

A: Well, all ofthem were certainly heavyweights. It was by the force of Milt's perso

ality, along with Paul Bikle and Dale Reed that we flew the M2-F1, which I think yo

can see really opened up the management acceptance ofthe lifting body shape. The 

shape didn't look like it would fly or at least it didn't look like it would flare and lan

horizontally. And I think watching the M2-Fl flare and land horizontally, it was prett

hard to deny that the shape was airworthy. So I think that Milt in great measure influ

enced the acceptance ofthe lifting body as a credible return-from-space vehicle. 

Paul Bikle was one of the best leaders that I've ever seen in aerospace. Paul was a 

very bright man. He had come up through the ranks in engineering and was eventually chief civilian engineer at the Air Force, and was asked by NASA to take over th

Flight Research Center and did so. I think the quality that made Paul so effective wa

that he knew what was worth doing and what wasn't. There are a million ideas out 

there. Ideas are the easiest thing in the world to find. It's the good ideas that are diffi

cult to locate. Paul had a nose for what was 

worth doing and what wasn't and did it. 

He was principal participant in the X-15 

and the lifting body programs and many 

other research programs we had here. 

Neil Armstrong-another very good 

mind-a good X-15 pilot, a good NASA, 

or NACA research pilot. Then I think he 

proved his quality to the world on the 

Gemini 8 mission and the Apollo 11 mission. And I don't think it was by accident 

he was selected for the Apollo 11 mission. 

I think he was selected because people 

felt he was capable of doing that job. 

And you asked about Jake Drake. Jake 

Automotive Engineers Aerospace Vehicl

Flight Control Systems Committee ....

When Bill Dana, Pilot's Office, receive

his new HL-10 pressure suit, he also re

ceived new white boots. He said he

wear pink ones before he'd wear whit

ones. He did....... New bridegroom

include Bob Cook, Ray Kellogg; both o

Data Systems, and Norm DeMar, Fligh

Operations....... Apollo 12 has no

really received its proper agricultural re

cognition for planting a Bean on the luna

129 
Jake Drake's concept was to build a Lunar Landing Research Vehicle that would 

carry five-sixths of the weight of the vehicle on a jet engine that was gimbaled and 

stabilized so that the jet engine was always pointing straight down. And then you'd 

only use the lift rockets to carry one-sixth of the weight ofthe Lunar Landing Research 

Vehicle. When you tilted it to translate, you had the right amount of thrust to simulate 

operating in lunar gravity. And everyone that ever landed on the Moon flew either the 

Lunar Landing Research Vehicle or the Lunar Landing Training Vehicle, which was an 

operational version of the LLRV. As far as I know, everyone said that they were a highfidelity simulation of the lunar landing. And that was Jake's idea from start to finish. 

He was so far senior to me, and he was here for such a short time after I got here, that 

I don't know what some of his other good ideas were. But he carried a reputation with 

him of being an original and visionary thinker. 

Dick Day was another visionary. He was a very practical man. He had been a World 

War II bomber pilot who came to the NACA in 1951 as a research engineer and got 

access to the Air Force Flight Test Center's analog computer. He added a cathode ray 

tube for an attitude indicator and a rudimentary pilot's stick for a control device, and 

had himself a simulator. He was able to program in the handling qualities of an airplane 

such as the X-2, and thus had a simulator that could fly like the next flight of a vehicle. 

That gave the test pilot the first opportunity in history to assess the stability and control 

and performance of an airplane before that airplane ever flew with those flight conditions. So he invented the engineering simulator. 

He also was instrumental in discovering the causes and corrections for inertial roll 

coupling, which had been experienced by the Douglas X-3 research airplane and by the 

F-1 OOA with its original designed vertical tail, two of which were lost due to inertial 

roll coupling. Dick determined that roll coupling was the cause of the loss of those 

F-lOOs and helped design the vertical tail that went on production F-lOOs. So those are 

five of the best minds that I've been exposed to here at NASA. There are other good 

ones. But those were five of the very best and were the people that have made it such a 

privilege to work here through the years. 

original pilot.s for the now-canceled 

Two New X-15 Pilots Named X-20 DynaSoar Program. 

masters Both aviators, who have served degree in aeronautical en­ as chase pilots on previous X- is Two new pilots have been added gineering from the University of flights,. are undergoing an extensive to the X-15 research program. Southern California in 1958, has training program, both on . the The two pilots, Air Force Captain 

William also piloted NASA's M2 -F 1 light­ J. Knight and William H. ground and in the air. 
 Dana, are expected to make their weight lifting body. 
 Dana and Knight will join the Capt. Knight, 35, is attached to first flights this fall. current four X-15 pilots: Capt. Dana, the Air Force Flight Test Center 34, is a civilian pilot-en­ Joe H. Engle, USAF, John B. Mc­ at Edwards AFB. A 1964 graduate Kay, NASA, Maj. Robert A. Rush­ gineer at NASA's Flight Research 

Center. He has of the Aerospace Research Pilots served as project worth, USAF, and Milton o. School, Capt. Knight was project pilot on a variety of flight pro­ Thompson, NASA. pilot on the F -5 NATO fighter. He The two new X-15 pilots will grams including the study of su­ was also selected as one of the personic transport operating pro­ become the lOth and lith men to cedures. Dana, who received his fly the X-15, the world's fastest 

and highest flying aircraft. 

130 
Q: Yes, he looked like he really enjoyed his work. 

A: Joe had one of the nicest sets ofteeth of anyone. They were straight and large. An

he smiled easily, and he was a very happy-looking man when he did smile. 

Q: He and Joe Engle. 

A: Yes, Joe Engle's another good smiler. 

Q: So what would you say Paul Bikle's management style was like? What character

ized his style ofmanaging the Center? 

A: First of all, Paul didn't sit in his office and wait for reports on how everyone did. 

Paul was out in the hallways talking to 

everyone, including managers, including engineers, including mechanics 

and janitors. Paul talked to them. He 

knew what was going on every day. 

But that wasn't really the quality that 

made Paul great. As I said, the quality 

that made Paul great was that he knew 

what a good idea was and he knew 

what wasn't. And he didn't waste our 

time following a lot of blind alleys. He 

was instrumental in the X -15, the lifting 

bodies, probably in the Lunar Landing 

Research Vehicle-although I was not 

on that program and can't tell you how 

much Paul affected it. But Paul just 

knew what was worth doing and what 

wasn't. And that's what made him a 

great man. 

Q: Since you first came to work here, 

have you seen many changes in the 

style ofmanagement? 

A: Well, yes, I have seen changes in the 

style. But it isn't the human beings that 

have changed, Pete. Human beings are 

just the same as the day I came to work 

here. We didn't have congressional 

oversight; we didn't have much Headquarters oversight when I first came to 

Center Lights Up 

The Sky! 

Last week the Center began a 

unique series of tests that literally 

lit up the skys. 

Powerful flares, rated at twornillion-candlepower each, were 

dropped from the C -47 as it 

cruised above the lake bed. The 

flares used parachutes to slow 

their rates of descent and burned 

for three minutes. 

Center pilots, Bruce Peterson 

and Bill Dana, were airborne in 

two F -104 aircraft. They were 

using the light from the flares to 

illuminate the lake bed in order to 

enable them to make simulated 

lifting body approaches. 

During last week's tests the 

flares were used in different cornbinations and from different altitudes. The pilots each made several touch -and-go landings. 

Reports from the preliminary 

test seem good according to the 

pilots. Further tests will be 

made later. 

At the higher drop altitudes, 

the flares should be visible 

throughout the local area, 

131 
change. 

Q: Have the various center directors had particularly different management philoso­


phies, or are they pretty similar? 


A: Well, the different directors we've had have had different marching orders when 

they came in. For example, when Paul Bikle retired and Lee Scherer came in, Lee 

came in from the space program. And he had marching orders to line Dryden up to be a 

recovery team for the Space Shuttle and to support the Space Shuttle. Lee did that, and 

he did that very effectively. Other managers have had other marching orders, and the 

Center has done different things under different managers. But there hasn't been a one 

of them that hasn't been a bright man or a hard worker. I think we've had good leadership throughout. And if some rose a little farther to the top than others, why, that's just 

the way human nature and statistical mathematics work. 

Q: What do you feel are some of the most important projects that the Center has participated in? 

A: Well, certainly the X-1. I think the day the X-1 flew supersonically is one of the 

major milestones in aviation history. I think you'd have to say the X-15 was important 

because it has to be considered one of the steppingstones into space. The X-1 and perhaps others and the X-15 are undeniable steppingstones toward the Space Shuttle. The 

Lunar Landing Research Vehicle-I've already talked in detail about the contribution of 

that. That required great vision and it required great persistence, to make that happen. 

And that was a successful program. It was used, as I said, by every astronaut that ever 

landed on the Moon and praised by every one of them. Our support of the Space Shuttle system-even though we weren't a big player in the Space Shuttle program-! think 

has been significant. Providing the landing site, providing the lighting for runways-we 

had done some research into night landings of low lift/drag ratio vehicles before the 

Space Shuttle landed at night. I think our design and development of the digital flight 

control system has been a major contributor to aeronautical research. So those are some 

ofthe ones that jump immediately to mind. That isn't to say there may not have been 

other programs here that were of equal value. 

Q: I think that's about all the questions I can think of, and I certainly thank you for 

your time. 

A: You're welcome, Pete. 

132 
Bill Dana riding o

one of the 1968 

Rose Bowl parad

floats. He was 

that year's Grand 

Marshal 

(E-1 0750) 

What even!'the ttlCJ&l Vll'llOUat'V flihc•>l!'trP!i'''cror.lild noth:ive imagined was 

way this future. took shape. First was the time frame. NASA's "round-1-2-3'' concep

called for a step-by-step effort that would take the United States from the edge of 

space through longer and longer suborbital flights, and finally into orbit. The vehicl

that were to make these ever-faster-and-higher flights were to be extensions of exist

ing aviation concepts. As for a landing on the moon, this was seen as something for 

distant future. The unexpected factor was the rapid advance of ballistic missiles in t

1950s; what had been viewed as an impractical technology was transformed by Col

135 
course ofthe future. Though President Dwight D. Eisenhower had not directly confronted the Soviets in space, his successor, John F. Kennedy realized that minimizing 

Soviet accomplishments was no longer politically viable. The United States accepted 

that it was in a race with the Soviets in space and was running that race to win. The 

result was Kennedy's decision to throw down the gauntlet of an American lunar landing 

being achieved before the end ofthe decade. 

The enormity ofthe Apollo program, in terms ofthe effort required, its abbreviated 

schedule, and the nature ofits goal, overshadowed all else. The X-15 faded into obscurity, and the X-20 was cancelled in December 1963, before it ever flew. The future of 

Lifting Body Study 

Awarded To Martin 

The Martin Co. ' Baltlmore' 

Md.' has been selected by the 

National Aeronautics and Space 

Administration to make a study of 

the costs' crew size and complexity of a flight research progra:" freedom of choice if such a pro­ using a manned lifting -body vehl 

gram becomes needed. 

cle. 

The study contract will be ne- Thus far, all U.S. manned 

gotiated with Martin by the NASA spacecraft have been landed in the 

Langley Research Center, Hamp­ oceans, but future mission planton, Va. The contract is expected ners will need the option of land­ to cost about $450,000. Ing at other locations such as large Wingless lifting bodies which 

dry lake beds' and will want a rely on their shape alone to pr~­

vi.de aerodynamic lift for fhght ln spacecraft able to fly long dis­


the Earth's atmosphere' are bemg tan.ces inside the atmosphere be­


studied by NASA's Office of Ad­ fore maneuvering to a safe touchvanced Research and Technology down under a pilot's control. 

for possible use in a variety ~f fu­ . Lifting body vehicles are con­ ture manned space filS SlOn~. 

Their added lift and maneuverabl­
 Sidered potentially useful for a 

lity provide a number of advantages variety of future missions in space· 

over current space vehicles. for e_xample, spacecraft inspectio~ In conducting the study, the con­ -~epan and reconnaissance; logistic tractor is required to consider an "nd re-supply of advanced · HL . 	 space -10 lifting -body concept capable statlons; search and of carrying one, two, four, six or 	 rescue; 

eight crew members. T~e HL -10 	 manned int~rplanetary missions 

and as an uppe t ' is considered representatlve of ad­ . r s age of a recovvanced lifting entry vehicles. erable launch vehicle. 

NASA has specified Titan II, Ti­ The HL -10 concept was evolved tan Ill and Saturn lB as potential through extensive research at 

launch vehicles. For study pur Langley. "The letters "HL" stand 

poses, the Flight Research C.enter 


would be a probable landlng Slte. 
 for Horizontal Landing, while the 

Although NASA's approved flight numeral 10 indicates the place in a 

programs do not include such an series of research models. 


effort, the research must be per. 


formed well in advance to permlt 


(Continued on page 2) 


136 
and planning studies of a space station 

program for the mid-1970's, including 

various concepts of reusable space shuttle 

craft. 

Major efforts of the studies will be 

preliminary design and planning of a 12­

man Earth-orbital space station which 

could be developed by 1975. It would be 

designed to have an operational life of 10 

years, subject to resupply of expendables 

and rotation of crews with logistics vehicles. The space station is envisionr.d as 

the initial element of a large space base. 

The work will include a conceptual 

design of a 50-man space base made up of 

specialized modules assembled in low 

Earth orbit in the late 1970's and early 

1980's. The space base would be a 

centralized facility in orbit comparable to 

a scientific and technical research, development, and operations center on Earth. 

Scientists and engineers of many 

disciplines could utilize its unique features, 

such as weightlessness, vacuum, Earth 

viewing, and unobstructed celestial viewing 

for a large variety of research and applications activities. 

Modified Apollo and Gemini spacecraft will be considered as initial logistic 

systems or shuttle craft for the space 

station design in the event an advanced 

space shuttle would not become available 

for the early phase of space station operations. Various concepts of advanced 

___s_p'!."_eshuttles such as lifting bodies will 

be evaluated to identify the most economical means of supplying a large space 

base. Each of the shuttle concepts 

would be capable of land landing at 

pi'ecise locations. 

o be assembled and fueled in orbit, was similarly problematic. Instea

he task of landing would be divided between two spacecraft. The Ap

ommand Module would take astronauts to and from lunar orbit, wh

he Lunar Module would make the actual landing. This in tum led to 

evelopment of the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle, which would b

sed to train astronauts for the landing. Development ofthe LLRV w

o constitute the FRC's primary involvement with the Apollo program

In one respect, the fact the FRC had a minimal role in the Apollo 


rogram allowed its personnel to think beyond the immediate require

ents for a moon landing to future possibilities in space. The activi­


ies undertaken during this time reflected ideas that had first originate

ith the round-1-2-3 concept a decade before. Although the goal was 

o longer putting an aircraft into orbit, the work undertaken at the FR

effected the concept of a step-by-step progression. Rather than a sim

aster-and-higher progression, however, this approach actually involv

series of tests that would address different elements of the equation

esearch with the X-15 would provide data on high speeds and altitu

he M2-F 1 research would prove the concept of a lifting body, and th

vehicle resembling a bathtub really could fly. The heavyweight lift­

·ng bodies were refined vehicles, with configurations that could actua

ithstand re-entry. They would fly in a limited performance envelope

ow ever, below altitudes of 100,000 feet and at speeds of less than M

, to keep costs low. 

As a result of this work, the stage was set for development of a 

eusable orbital spacecraft. X-15 flights provided the first real-world 

ypersonic aerodynamic and heating data. Some of the results were 

xpected while others, such as the absence of laminar airflow at 

ypersonic speeds, ran counter to earlier wind-tunnel predictions. En

anagement principles required for atmospheric re-entry also were 

roven during the X-15 program, as were experiences with localized 

eating, airframe buckling, and in-flight landing-gear extensions. The 

different lifting-body designs illustrated that it was possible to build unconventiona

vehicles capable of both withstanding re-entry and making controlled low-speed 

landings. This could be done not only on the lakebed, as with the X-15, but also on 

concrete runway, as demonstrated with the X-24B. 

In some cases, the most valuable contributions of the X-15 and lifting-body resea

came in showing what did not work. The ablative heat shield applied to the X-15A-

provided, in theory, a simple method for refurbishing a space vehicle after flight. In 

practice, however, the procedure was clumsy, difficult, and time-consuming. The va

ous heavyweight lifting bodies did not need heat protection for their relatively slow 

flights. The X-24A was wind-tunnel tested, however, with a simulated ablative heat 

shield-a layer ofwhite glue and sand applied to the aircraft's underside-and chicke

wire giving the shield texture. The tests showed that added surface roughness great

increased vehicle drag. Painted with the textured coating, the craft would have been 

137 
y y , 

pq

to fulfill would increase dramatically. In addition to crew rotation and re-supply, the 

vehicle would also have to carry large space station components and satellite payloads. 

It would have to serve not only NASA missions, but military and commercial space activity as well. The space shuttle would have to replace all existing expendable boosters. 

This created the perception that a shuttle would require a payload bay 15 feet wide and 

60 feet long and the capability of carrying in excess of 50,000 pounds ofpayload. This 

was the equivalent of the volume and weight capacity of a railroad boxcar. 

The same political imperatives affected not only the type of vehicle to be built, but 

also its overall configuration. The high levels of funding that the U.S. space program 

had initially enjoyed had begun to fade even before the first moon landing. The initial 

shuttle concepts called for two piloted stages, a configuration dating to the early 1950s. 

The first stage would accelerate to a specific speed; the second stage would then separate, ignite its engines and head toward orbit. The first stage would tum back and land. 

Because the second stage would contain internal fuel tanks, it would be a large vehicle. 

This, in tum, meant that the first-stage vehicle had to be larger still. Both shuttle stages 

would be completely reusable to keep operating costs low. 

But the same reduced funding that dictated multiple roles 

for the spacecraft also meant that money would not be avail­ ....Security Captain Bob R" I . IS ey IS re- able for this pair of advanced, technically demanding, and fully COVering from surgery . · · · ...0 epart1ng reusable vehicles. Instead, a simpler, semi-reusable configura­ the ~enter this month is Patti Apprill, tion evolved. The shuttle vehicle would carry three liquid-fuel Public Affairs ......Dean Webb, Re- engines fed from a very large external drop tank. To supply the 

search, was a ffrst-place winner in a re­ additional thrust for liftoff, a pair of solid rocket boosters would 

cent Knott's Berry Farm photographic be attached to the sides of the external tank. At liftoff, both the 

contest A dr K · . liquid and solid rockets would ignite. The solid rockets would · · · · · · u ey osrck 1s the new 

receptionist in the lobby...•.The HL-10 bum out in about two minutes, separate from the tank and parachute to an ocean splashdown. They would be refurbished and lifting body inflight over the Tehachapi 

used again on subsequent flights. The shuttle would continue on mountains is the color cover of the. new 

toward orbit using the remaining fuel in the external tank. Just Kern County telephone book ...... before reaching orbit, the now-empty external tank would be 

jettisoned to bum up on re-entry. The shuttle would fire small rockets to provide 

the final velocity needed to put itself into orbit. 

As the shuttle concepts evolved at the end of the 1960s and into the 1970s, FRC 

personnel provided their insights to designers. One issue that sparked a major controversy was the use of landing engines. Many believed that the shuttle would have to 

be equipped with jet engines in order to make a powered landing. Milt Thompson and 

other pilots and engineers pointed to more than twenty years of experience with rocket 

aircraft making unpowered landings on the lakebed. They argued that landing engines 

did not increase safety, but rather diminished it due to the complexity, weight, and level 

of risk the engines added. 

The final test came (and the issue was settled) when two powered landing flights 

were made with the HL-1 0. The lifting body was fitted with small rocket engines, and 

Air Force test pilot Peter Hoag made the powered approach. The results were eye138 
any wind-tunnel or other research data that might apply. The margins for error had t

be determined for each data set. FRC engineers also were involved in developing th

instrumentation packages that would be flown on the orbital shuttle missions. 

Once the prototype shuttle, named Enterprise, was completed, it was moved from 

Rockwell International assembly plant through the streets of Palmdale and Lancaste

and finally to the Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards. The shuttle was to beg

the Approach and Landing Tests (ALT). These would serve several goals. The shutt

subsonic aerodynamics, such as its lift-to-drag ratio, could be measured. More impo

tant was that the vehicle's computer fly-by-wire system could be tested in actual flig

The shuttle was totally dependent on its redundant computer system for stability and 

control. Should these suffer a total hardware or software failure, the vehicle would b

lost. 

The shuttle would undergo preliminary tests during the ALT that were similar to 

those of earlier research aircraft. First would be high-speed taxi tests of the shuttle a

its launch aircraft down the Edwards runway. These would be followed by unmanne

captive-carry flights to test the shuttle's aerodynamics and systems. Next would com

manned captive-carry flights, with a crew on board to 

'""~r"t" the systems. These would follow the actual laun

with the exception of the actual separation. The f

would be free flight of the Enterprise. 

The shuttle launch profile was radically different than 

of the B-29s, B-50s, and B-52s that carried its resea

. The X-Is, D-558-Ils, X-2s, X-15s, and var

lifting bodies had all been dropped from underneath 

WANT ADS 

TAPE RECORDER: Sony, 2-speed portable, motherships. The Enterprise would be carried aloft 

AC or DC, built-in battery charger. Like new 

condition. $35.00. Victor Carrello, Ext. 382 back of a modified 7 4 7 airliner. Once the pair reache

or 365. launch altitude, the 747 would nose down into a shal

'""'"""'-"· The shuttle commander would fire explosive bo

8 TRACK PLAYER: Attach to stereo. New. 

Value $60.00, sell for $38.00. Steve Kucharik, the pair would separate. The shuttle would be moun

Ext. 527. a nose-up angle, which would cause it to develop eno

to separate cleanly. Despite the calculations, the poss

PM/AM MULTIPLEX RECEIVER: Harmon 

Kardon, 35 watts. $80.00. Tom McAlister, ofthe shuttle striking the 747's tail was on everyo

Ext. 361. 

The five free flights had three different profiles. The SEWING MACHINE: Portable. $35.00. Herb 

Baker, Ext. 641. r11vrr" /XV would initially be fitted with a tail cone to 

the turbulence on the 747's vertical fin and impro

PORTABLE TELEVISION: Black and white shuttle's lift to drag ratio. The shuttle would land on with 18 in. screen. Walt Sefic, Ext. 674. 

lake bed, with its long runways. This would provide 

SKIS: Standard Head, 205 c.c. Stan Novak, margin of safety for the first, second, and third fr

Ext. 741. On the fourth flight, the tail cone would be remo

would cut the shuttle's lift to drag ratio nearly in ha

INSTRUCTION BOOK: "How to Play Hearts" 

never used. Jack Kolf, Ext. 443. '"'"-u'""'~ it to descend more steeply. Like the previous thr

however, this mission would also touch down on 
former X-15 pilot) and Richard H. Truly. The crews would alternate; Raise and Fullerton would make the first and third manned captive-carry missions and first, third, 

and fifth free flights, Engle and Truly the second manned captive-carry mission and the 

second and fourth free flights. 

140 
y 

Contracts Near 

The National Aeronautics and Space 

Administration has selected· two aerospace ;ndustrial firms for final nf~\JUI;­

ations of rarallel 11-month contrac:ts for 

definition and preliminary design studies 

of a reusable space shuttle vehicle for 

rossible future space flight missions. 

Fixed priced contracts wi II be m~­

gotiated with McDonnell-Douglas Corp., 

St. Louis, and North American Rockwell 

Corp., Space Division, Downey, Calif. 

valued at approximately $8 million each. 

NASA has also selected three aerospace firms for final negotiations of parallel 11-month Phase B design definition 

study contracts for the space shuttle 

main propulsion system. The studies 

will be managed by the Marshall Space 

Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala. 

NASA will negotiate fixed price 

contracts with Aerojet Liquid Rocket 

Co. of Aero jet General Corp., Sacramento; 

Rocketdyne Div. of North American 

Rockwell Corp., Canoga Park, Cal; f.; and 

Pratt & Whitney Div. of United Aircraft Corp., West Palm Beach, Fla. to 

define requirements for the shuttle engine, to provide a prototype engine design 

to meet technical requirements. 

from 

Winning Incentive Awards last month were 

AI Harris, Jr., Flight Operations, and 

Jim Craft, Data Systems ....... Former 

X-15 pilot Bob Rushworth has returned 

to this country following his tour of 

duty in Vietnam. On his last flight 

mission, his F-4 aircraft was damaged 

by enemy ground fire ....... Another 

X-15 pilot, Pete Knight, visited Sweden 

last month to fly some of the new Swedish 

aircraft....... According to a NASA 

Headquarters bulletin, the Hertz Rent-ACar Company offers a 20% discount to 

NASA employees. I D cards are necessary 

to obtain the saving ....... Meryl DeGeer's, Flight Operations, advice to young 

co-op engineers is, "Dor:1't spend all of your 

money on wine, women, and song; save 

some to spend fool ish ly." ....... Richard 

Eubank, Administration, received a $35 

Incentive Award from the Center last 

year. This same idea, a handling device 

for moving buJky items, has been adopted 

by the Goddard Space Flight Center and 

he will receive a second check. 

a town in South Dakota that is so 

small that they closed the town zoo when 

the local pigeon was run over by a car •.•.• 

According to Ron Waite, Flight Operations, the arrival of one more F-8 and 

we'll delete fhe final A in NASA... 

Interviewed by Curtis Peebles, February 9, 200

(Original questions and responses amended 


by interviewee in March 2006) 


Melvin Burke's background is similar to that of many ofthe engineers who worked 

the space projects of the late 1950s through the 1980s. He was a child ofthe Depressio

and grew up in the Midwest. He was first introduced to electronics while serving in th

U.S. Air Force during the Korean War. Burke attended Michigan State University, gra

ating with a degree in physics. He worked on the ground support equipment used with 

Thor ballistic missile. This booster was later used to launch the first U.S. moon probes

the Corona photo reconnaissance satellites, and the first U.S. weather and communica

tions satellites. He worked at AC Spark Plug on the Titan ICBM inertial guidance syst

and the Polaris submarine navigation system. Like many others in the early 1960s, Bu

grew tired ofMidwestem winters and joined the migration to the Sunbelt. And like ma

ofthose arriving at the Flight Research Center to work on the X-15, his first impressio

ofLancaster were mixed. 

143 
I did start school I attended the Moon School, which was about two blocks from where 

we lived. Muskegon was a medium-size city with a daily newspaper, the Muskegon 

Chronicle, where my father worked as a linotype operator. We lived in Muskegon until 

I was midway through the fifth grade. At that time we moved to a farm near Greenville, 

Michigan. 

We only lived on the farm for a couple ofyears but I certainly remember the hard work 

involved with farming. It was a large farm, 360 acres, and even though I was young, I 

was expected to do my share. We had 24 cows that had to be milked by hand morning 

and evening as there was no electricity. My father and I handled the milking and most of 

the farm chores. I think he milked about three cows to my one. We processed the milk 

through a hand-powered separator, separating the cream from the milk. We sold the cream 

to a local creamery that made butter from the cream; the skim milk was fed to our pigs. 

We raised beans, com, oats, wheat, and hay. Most ofthe work was done with horses as 

World War II was ongoing and gasoline was in short supply. The grade school my brother 

and I attended was a two-mile walk from the farmhouse. It was a two-room school, one 

room for classes and a small room for coats. We walked to and from school every school 

day. In the winter that took an effort but in the spring and fall it was an enjoyable hike. 

We left the farm and moved to Fremont, Michigan, where I attended junior and senior high school, graduating in 1950 when I was 17 years old. During my freshman and 

sophomore years in high school, I attended school for only part of each year. I was fortunate to have been appointed a page in the Michigan state senate and lived in the YMCA 

in Lansing, Michigan, some 120 miles from home. It was pretty heady stuff for a 13-yearold, living on his own, eating all ofhis meals in restaurants with a lot offree time. Even 

though the senate was in session only 3 or 4 days each week, we reported to work Monday through Friday and normally spent about 7 hours each day there. The senate session 

lasted from the first week in January through mid-April. Fremont High School allowed 

me to study on my own and to take end-of-semester and final exams. Luckily, while not 

achieving any academic accolades, I was able to pass and keep up with my class. Other 

than having been a page, my junior and senior high school years were quite uneventful. 

I participated in sports, was a member ofthe student council and generally followed the 

routine of a typical small-town teenager. 

Q: How did you become interested in engineering? 

A: When I was in the service during the Korean Conflict, I worked with a Philco Tech-rep 

in Japan and Korea. His name was Willis Swanson and he spent time showing me how 

to do the math necessary to design circuits and antenna for different transmission and 

reception frequencies. I was 18 or19 years old at the time and was so impressed with his 

knowledge and what he could do, I vowed when I got out ofthe service I was going to 

go back to college and get involved with science. In 1953 and 54, the last two years I was 

in the service, I was stationed at Pinecastle Air Force Base in Florida where, a number of 

years earlier, the initial glide flights ofthe X -1 had taken place. I was not aware ofthat 

fact at the time; my only interest was in getting out ofthe service and starting college. 

144 
care for foundry casting and machining types ofwork (never could relate them to elect

engineering) and, as I was more interested in theory and math, I transferred to the Phy

Department. I dropped out of school after the first quarter as my wife was expecting a

needed to work to meet the financial obligations ofa family. Following the loss ofour ch

I re-enrolled at Michigan State in the spring of 1956. I received a BS in physics in Ma

1959. I also took graduate courses at Marquette University and at UCLA. 

Q: What did you do before you arrived at Dryden in 1961? 

A: Douglas Aircraft: I accepted a position with Douglas Aircraft in Santa Monica as a 

engineer in April, 1959. While I was at Douglas, Scott Crossfield piloted the X-15 on 

first glide flight. The buildup to this flight was well covered by the Los Angeles evenin

news on television. Of course, I never dreamed that within a relatively short period of 

time I would be working on that vehicle. The job at Douglas was not overly exciting. 

I was in a section with 7 other engineers and about 14 technicians. We, the engineers, 

would design test programs to verifY various components ofthe ground support equip

ment for the Thor IRBM were meeting their design specifications. We would draw the 

circuit diagrams for the test to be conducted, write the test procedures and monitor the 

test as the technicians conducted them. We would then analyze the results and write a 

report describing the component tested, its performance specifications, the test set-up 

the results of the test. 

AC Spark Plug: I was recruited in the late summer of 1959 by AC Spark Plug (now 

Delco). We left Santa Monica bound for Milwaukee, Wisconsin in October after comp

ing the contract I had signed with Douglas. AC was located in both Flint, Michigan an

in Milwaukee. The complex in Michigan was primarily concerned with automotive pa

While the facilities in Wisconsin worked on government (DOD) projects. AC-Milwau

worked very closely with MIT and was under contract to build the inertial guidance 

system for the Titan ICBM. I saw this as an opportunity to participate in state ofthe ar

technology. I participated in the development of the Titan system and the Ships Inertia

Navigation System (SINS) used on the early Polaris submarines. I was assigned to the 

Gyro Engineering Department where I tested gyros and accelerometers. All new hires 

went through a 10 day orientation course where we not only learned about General M

tors and AC but also received technical instruction on the theory ofinertial guidance a

how the systems AC built worked. General Motors was a good company to work for a

the work atAC was very interesting but, the Milwaukee weather was terrible. We wer

on an extended work week, every other week we would get a Sunday off. The extende

work week was necessary to meet the critical production schedules for the ICBMs as 

Cold War was at its height. It seemed that on every one of my Sundays off it was eithe

raining or snowing. 

NASA-FRC: When President Eisenhower established NASA in 1958, the technical 

challenge and glamour ofbeing involved with its space programs was very attractive. 

One week I noticed an advertisement in Aviation Week where NASA was looking for 

engineer with a background in inertial guidance. The position was at Edwards AFB in 

California. Sick ofthe Milwaukee weather, especially the winters, my wife and I deci

145 
We were not sure ifwe wanted to settle in Lancaster so, we rented a house. Few houses 

had air conditioning, most had an evaporative cooler. The output was more than sufficient to cool our house during the hottest part of the summer. The aerospace industry 

had recently suffered the cancellation of several contracts and many people had left the 

area, leaving a large number ofhomes vacant. It seemed that at least 40% ofthe houses in 

Lancaster had been repossessed and were owned by the banks and mortgage companies. 

Anyone who was employed could move in by just assuming the payments ofthe people 

who had vacated the homes. We only stayed in the first house we rented for about 6 

months. We moved to another rental as we still were not sure about staying. Our neighbor 

on one side worked at the rocket site and on the other side at US Borax. Milt Thompson, 

his wife and family lived two doors down from us. 

Of course, there were no freeways, only two lane roads. To get to LAX you had to drive 

down Sierra Highway (US-6), get on Sepulveda Boulevard and follow that all the way 

to the airport. One thing that was helpful was the fact that the traffic was very light back 

then. Still it was usually about a 3 hour drive each way. It was not uncommon to get stuck 

behind a hay truck and this slowed the trip down even further. The Flight Research Center 

had a contract with Avis Rental Car and the agent was a Union 76 gas station on the corner of Sierra Highway and Lancaster Boulevard. 

There was no gate to go through to get to the main base complex at Edwards or to the 

Flight Research Center. It was still necessary to have a base sticker on your car but I am 

not sure why this was a requirement. Anyone could and many did use the base roads as 

a cutoff to what is now Hiway 58. The sled track was still in place so, ifyou wanted to 

drive in from the back way, you had to take a lengthy detour around the sled track. The 

Air Police did, however, regularly patrol Rosamond Blvd. I remember one time when 

we were driving in very early one morning to support an X -15 flight a pickup truck went 

sailing past us like we were standing still. A few miles ahead, we saw the Air Police had 

the speeding pickup stopped. It looked like Joe Walker's pickup and some time later I 

asked Joe ifthat was him. Joe acted a little embarrassed, and acknowledged he had been 

going a little too fast and was stopped for speeding. When the Air Police saw who it was 

they had just waved him on, telling him to slow down a little. Rosamond was not much of 

a town but it did have several bars. We, members of the X-15 team, frequented Juanita's 

after nearly every flight because it seemed, nearly every flight set a new speed or altitude 

record and the word was out to stop at Juanita's to celebrate. I only stopped a couple of 

times as I soon joined a carpool ofnon-drinkers. 

Q: You worked on the X-15 program. What were your duties? 

A: Program Status: When I arrived in July, 1961, the planned flights using the XLRll 

rocket engines, which burned alcohol and liquid oxygen, had been completed. The project 

team was starting to expand the flight envelope to gather the research data needed in the 

Mach numbers above Mach 3.5. This required flying with the Reaction Motors (Thiokol) 

designed rocket engine (frequently referred to as the XLR-99 engine or just -99). This 

engine had a restart capability and the thrust level could be varied by the pilot with an 

146 
Burke in 1962, 

soon after he and 

his family moved 

to the Mojave 

Desert from the 

Midwest. 

(E62-8126A) 

neers covering the rocket engine, the APU, stability augmentation system (SAS), the B

Nose, the Inertial Flight Data System (IFDS) and other subsystems on the aircraft. All 

these systems engineers were in the Operations Engineering Branch managed by Perr

Rowe. Incidentally, Bruce Peterson was one ofthese Flight Operations systems engin

at that time. This branch was part ofthe Flight Operations Division under Joe Vensel. 

systems engineers for the Ball Nose and IFDS were the exception, they were in the D

Systems Division under Ed Videan. 

The X-15 pilots were Joe Walker, John "Jack" McKay and Neil Armstrong, all of 

NASA, Major Bob White and Captain Bob Rushworth ofthe USAF and Lt. Comman

Forrest Petersen ofthe US Navy. We were a small team and I had the opportunity to 

work closely with the pilots and got to know them well enough to at least form lasting 

impressions ofthem. Joe Walker was a gregarious person with a quick temper. He did 

not hesitate to let you know that the cockpit ofthe airplane was his territory and you h

better not change things without his approval. Even with his quick temper, once he let 

you know how he felt, he immediately recovered to an even disposition. Jack McKay 

also a very outgoing person who did not get excited easily. While flying the X-15, he 

not appear to trust the instruments totally and felt more comfortable with his own natu

flying abilities. Jack was very helpful to those ofus supporting the program. He was a

a standout at Juanita's after each flight. Neil Armstrong always impressed me as more 

an engineer than a pilot. He seemed to analyze every aspect of a flight until he had a c

plete understanding ofwhy things happened the way they did. Neil was very much mo

introverted than the others in the Pilot's Office but, he did participate in the after flight 

147 
associated with each one ofthem. 

My initial assignment: One ofthe problems inhibiting the expansion ofthe flight envelope was the reliability ofthe X-15 Inertial Flight Data System (IFDS), often referred 

to as the 'stable table'. This system provided flight data to the pilot during the mission. 

It was not uncommon for the inertial height indicator to be reading between 30,000 and 

100,000 feet at the end of a flight with the aircraft sitting on the lake bed. An inertial 

system was the only on-board system that could provide the pilot with real time information regarding his speed, altitude and attitudes (pitch, roll, and yaw) at the extreme speeds 

and high altitudes the X -15 was capable of achieving, thus its performance was critical. 

Radar data on speed and altitude could be radioed to the pilot but would not be available 

ifthere were a communications problem. An on-board system was a requirement. The 

engineer responsible for the system, Jay Christiansen, had been selected to fill a position 

at NASA's Ames Research Center but was being held at the Flight Research Center until 

a suitable replacement for him was hired. I was his replacement and we worked together 

for about two weeks before he left. 

I had two junior engineers working directly for me on the IFDS, Malcolm Brown and 

Jim Coleman, both quite capable but inexperienced. The Center had established an Inertial Systems Laboratory under Ken Cowden. Ken had four instrumentation technicians 

working for him and they maintained the systems, replaced failed components, calibrated 

and tested the systems in the laboratory. Ken reported to Truman Pugh who also supervised a very capable instrumentation repair and calibration laboratory. Ken's people did 

not work outside ofthe laboratory. That is, installation and testing ofthe IFDS on the 

aircraft were performed by other technicians, Harvey Price and Walt Redman. 

Harvey and Walt worked for Bob Cook, who was leader of a section oftechnicians 

who installed, tested, and removed all instrumentation in the Center's aircraft. Within 

the Data Systems Division, Bob Cook and Truman Pugh were both at the same level. 

However, they were in different Branches and these Branches were different than the one 

I was assigned to. I did not supervise any of the technicians associated with the IFDS, 

just the two junior engineers, even though I was responsible for the system. Generally, in 

spite ofthe way the IFDS support was organized things moved along smoothly. Once in 

a while a little extra diplomacy was required as Ken Cowden was very independent and 

was not always amenable to taking technical direction from engineers. 

The IFDS: The system had been built by Sperry Gyroscope Company in Great Neck, 

New York. Six 'A' and two 'B' systems were built. The 'A' systems were built for flight 

while the 'B' systems were strictly for laboratory use and fit checks in the aircraft. Each 

system included an inertial measurement unit (IMU), a computer, a set ofpilot's displays 

and the necessary interconnecting cables. The IMU had four gimbals to prevent gimbal 

lock when the vehicle was maneuvering. It provided attitude data to the pilot's 3 axis ball 

display. The inner gimbal contained three stabilizing single-degree offreedom gyroscopes, three accelerometers, and the necessary supporting electronics. The computer 

was an analog device using electromechanical integrators to transform the accelerometer 

outputs to velocity and position data. The computer provided data to a set of displays in 

the cockpit. These displays included total velocity, vertical velocity, and vertical height 

148 
it was converted to cold gaseous nitrogen. This gaseous nitrogen was blown through th

heat exchangers. The heat exchangers were like radiators with very narrow or small pa

sage ways and were subject to condensation and freezing, blocking the flow of cool air

Without cooling, the system could operate for about 10 minutes without damaging the 

components. Keeping the cooling air flowing and at the proper temperatures was a tou

balancing act and during carrier flight prior to launch required a significant amount of 

tention of one ofthe X-15 Flight Operations systems engineers. 

IFDS Operation: As mentioned earlier, the IFDS was so unreliable that it was actually limiting the expansion ofthe X -15 flight envelope. To try and ensure that we had 

reasonably accurate operating system, we performed a series oftests on the system pri

to each flight. The computer and the IMU were individually tested in the laboratory by 

Ken Cowden and his team ofinstrumentation technicians. The IMU and computer we

then connected together and a simulated operational test was conducted in the laborato

When the system had successfully completed these tests, it was moved to the hangar a

installed in the X-15. 

Prior to mating the X-15 to the B-52 and following the installation ofthe system in t

X-15, the system was given a complete operational check in the hangar including a 15 

minute drift run in the inertial mode. This provided an insight into the static performan

ofthe system and we established stringent limits on the allowable drift rates for the sy

tem to meet before proceeding to the next step. Up to this point, the system could be m

easily replaced than in the mated configuration should it fail any ofthe tests. The IFDS 

was one ofthe last systems tested before the vehicle was moved out ofthe hangar to th

mating area. It seemed that this testing always occurred in the late night or early morn

hours and we spent many nights at the Center either waiting to gain access to the vehic

so that we could test the system or actually performing the tests. 

On the day before a flight, we would always check with the crew chiefto get an esti

mated time ofwhen we would be allowed on the vehicle to make our system test. Usu

we would be told it would be 8 or 9 that evening, which would allow us to go home fo

dinner. The crew chiefhad the telephone number of the IFDS technicians, Harvey Pric

and Walt Redman, and would call about two hours before we could get access. Whoev

got the call would then telephone the others who had to go in for the test. For the first 

or so after I got to the FRC, I always went in to participate in the test. I recall one time 

when the system failed the test; we isolated the problem to the computer. There was no 

spare computer available so, I had Harvey and Walt bring the failed unit into the IFDS 

lab. Neither Harvey nor Walt were lab technicians and were familiar enough with the 

interior ofthe system to make repairs. Consequently, I tore down the computer, replac

the ailing component, reassembled it, verified the computer was operational and had th

reinstall it. The inspector who witnessed my work and the testing reluctantly signed of

the unit, not happy that an engineer was doing 'technicians' work. We worked nearly a

night but finished in time for the vehicle to be mated in the wee hours of the morning 

complete a successful flight as scheduled. 

Following mating, the B-52/X-15 combination would be moved down the taxi strip 

the servicing area where final servicing ofthe aircraft was completed. The Flight Oper

tions Engineer in charge ofthe X-15 being serviced sat in a mobile command vehicle; 

149 
into the B-52 and the launch panel operator's position. I can tell you a slight whiff ofthis 

clears your sinuses immediately! Actually, a small concentration ofthis could be toxic so, 

when a spill occurred, you immediately put on the gas mask. 

When the B-52 engines were started, the technicians and I would exit the aircraft and I 

would immediately head for the FRC control room where I had a regular seat. Most ofthe 

systems engineers sat at work stations which displayed critical data on the performance 

oftheir system(s). The IFDS had no such workstation as no data was transmitted down 

from the IFDS. Should a problem with the system develop, my job was to diagnose the 

problem based on information from either the launch panel operator or the X -15 pilot 

describing what they saw. Based on that information, I had to analyze what was happening inside ofthe system and recommend either an abort or continuing with the launch. 

This decision had to be based on safety offlight considerations. If, based on my analysis, 

I felt the system would provide the information necessary to safely complete the flight, 

I would recommend proceeding. The data required for the pilot to safely fly the mission 

was established during simulator training and was specifically identified during the preflight briefing. 

The erection cycle initiated prior to B-52 engine start would last for nearly the entire 

carrier flight until just prior to the start of the X-15 APU's and the power transferred to the 

aircraft's internal buss. At that time erection was terminated and the system was placed in 

the inertial mode. This was a critical time for the system and several times we had a system failure when the power was transferred or when the system was placed in the inertial 

mode of operation. 

Improvements to the IFDS: In addition to the testing, I initiated a revision to the operational procedures. Before the procedures were revised, the technicians carried a book with 

a red cover that described every detail of the system and all ofthe test and operational 

procedures for the system. This red book weighed between 7 and 10 pounds and it was 

not needed for the turn-on and initiation ofthe erection cycle. The new procedures that 

I wrote simplified the operation for the technicians and eliminated the need to carry the 

'Red Book' everywhere. The additional testing and simplified procedures did not solve 

the root cause ofthe IFDS's problems but, through the rigorous testing, did help improve 

the system reliability sufficiently to allow the expansion ofthe flight envelope to continue. For my work on this system, I was honored to receive in the spring of 1962 the first 

Sustained Superior Performance Award ever made at the Flight Research Center. 

Spare parts for the system were extremely expensive. They were being "sole sourced" 

to Sperry by the Air Force and Sperry was charging as much as $7,000 for printed circuit 

boards. At least one system always seemed to be back at Sperry for overhaul. At each 

overhaul, many ofthe printed circuit boards were being replaced, unnecessarily I thought. 

I felt the cost ofthese overhauls was too much and, following my checking with my staff, 

which had now grown by two senior engineers for a total of four engineers, and Ken 

Cowden, it was decided to stop the routine of sending the systems out except when the 

gimbal bearings, a gyro or an accelerometer needed replacement. I found that we could 

get identical replacement circuit boards built in the San Fernando Valley for as little as 

$250, eliminating the need to sole source their procurement to Sperry. I asked Jim Love, 

150 
to include environmental tests. During these tests it was found that the accelerometers 

the system, purchased from Sperry ofEngland, were sensitive to low temperatures. Th

accelerometers would 'ring' when low temperatures were reached inside of the IMU. 

This ringing resulted in a bias output, either a positive or negative voltage indicating 

an acceleration or deceleration. This bias caused errors in total velocity, vertical veloc

ity and inertial height. The errors were particularly large in vertical velocity and inerti

height due to the fact that the mechanization employed to convert the vertical accelera

measured by the IMU into vertical velocity included a positive feedback loop to remo

the effects of gravity. This positive feedback makes it basically unstable. Perhaps the 

sensitivity ofthe accelerometers could be corrected but, to do so would have required 

they be sent to England and we elected to seek another source for replacement acceler

ometers. We did not make this decision until we verified the ringing problem with sev

ofthe systems in our own laboratory. No direct replacement could be found with exac

the same mounting base as the originals, requiring that we design a mounting bracket 

the new accelerometers. The accelerometer problem turned out to be the root cause of

poor performance of the IFDS. 

During operation ofthe IMU in the laboratory the covers were removed and ambien

temperature air was blown by a fan into the system. In the hangar a regular aircraft co

ing cart provided moderately cool air for the system. The temperature ofthe air comin

from the cooling cart was cool but never super cold as was the gaseous nitrogen when 

system was in flight during the carrier or free flight portions ofthe mission. Conseque

there was no way we would have ever discovered the temperature sensitivity problem 

without the tests at Holloman. Once the accelerometers were changed, the system beg

to meet the performance specified in the initial design specifications. 

Introduction ofthe Digital System: At the same time that we were putting on the big 

push to improve the reliability and performance ofthe original analog system, the Dyn

Soar (X-20) program was cancelled by the Air Force. A digital system had been devel

oped for this vehicle and four systems built. I was able to get a great deal of data on th

systems and finding them to be suitable for the X -15, worked with the X -15 Program 

Office at Wright Field to obtain them. Through the Program Office, a contract was giv

to Honeywell in St. Petersburg, Florida, where the system had been designed and buil

to modify them for the X -15. This required the development ofnew software, mountin

bracket design, and cooling system work. The digital system was first installed in X -1

#1 and following its successful performance it was installed in #3. The digital system 

provided very accurate flight data reliably to the pilot during flights. X-15 #2 retained 

upgraded analog system, which also performed well for the remainder ofthe program

Q: What were some ofthe events you remember? 

A: Dedicated Personnel: While not a specific event, the dedication of all ofthe Flight 

search Center personnel to getting the job done was special. This was not just the crew

assigned to the aircraft but everyone in the Center whether they worked in procuremen

personnel, or whatever, there was always that positive attitude, ifthere was a job to be 

done the people would find a way to do it. It was a stimulating environment to work in

151 
to support the adaptive flight control system in X-15 #3 when that aircraft became active. 

Bill eventually became an employee of Dryden, working in Flight Operations. I worked 

with Bill's cousin Dick Peterson during my TDY assignment with the Mission Analysis 

Division, where Dick was a branch chief. Some years later Dick served as the director of 

the Langley Research Center. Sperry sent several engineers to the FRC to try and solve 

the IFDS problems in late 1961. They spent a couple ofmonths with us and contributed 

little towards improving the performance or reliability ofthe system. Honeywell sent two 

engineers out to help with the integration ofthe digital system. One ofthese engineers 

stayed on for the remainder ofthe program. A number ofpersonnel were at the FRC from 

Bendix to support the X-15 High Range. 

The real influx ofcontractor personnel came about much later and was especially 

prevalent with the start ofthe Shuttle activities. Later still, when Dryden became a division ofAmes, the performance of complete center functions was transferred from civil 

service personnel to contractor personnel. Previous to that time contractor personnel were 

on board to support their company's system for particular programs. During the ALT and 

the first flights ofthe Columbia, the majority of contractor personnel at Dryden were as a 

result of support contracts through JSC, KSC, or GSFC. 

New X-15 pilots: As the initial pilots transitioned out ofthe program, new pilots were 

brought in. I had to give each new pilot an extensive briefing on the X-15's IFDS and 

inertial systems in general. I remember giving this briefing to Joe Engle, Pete Knight, and 

Bill Dana. All had an instant grasp ofinertial guidance principles. By the time Mike Adams came on board, I had already transferred to the Research Division and was no longer 

directly supporting X -15 operations. While Milt Thompson was selected as an X -15 pilot 

at the same time as Joe Engle, I do not recall that he participated in the inertial systems 

briefing. 

Cracked windows: On two flights ofthe aircraft one ofthe two windows on the aircraft 

cracked. This caused the window to become opaque, severely limiting the pilot's visibility to one side ofthe aircraft only. Chase pilots called out information and the X -15 

pilot made a precision landing in spite ofthe curtailed visibility. This performance speaks 

highly ofthe skill ofthe X-15 pilots. 

Flight aborts: The X -15 was a very complex system made up of a number of equally 

complex subsystems. Malfunctioning or marginal performance of any ofthese subsystems was sufficient cause to cancel or abort a flight. There were also numerous aborts 

due to the weather. Weather flights were made by both Air Force and Dryden pilots to 

evaluate the weather at the launch site and emergency landing lakes. It seems, looking 

back, that we had a large number of aborts either for weather or subsystem problems. One 

abort that was a result of an unusual incident occurred when Jack McKay inadvertently 

pulled the 'green apple' located between his legs under the seat. This was the first step in 

ejecting, the next step, would have caused the canopy to be fired (released) and the rest of 

the sequence would be automatic. Jack was told not to touch anything else and the B-52 

landed without further incident, the seat disarmed and the flight rescheduled for another 

day. 

Pasadena overflight: Neil Armstrong while testing the Honeywell Adaptive Flight 

152 
got too high and by the time he realized his altitude was increasing rather than decrea

and he was overshooting Edwards. I remember the control room communicator, I thin

was Joe Walker, kept warning him, "Neil, watch your angle of attack". It was exciting 

several minutes with much concern over whether or not he had enough energy to get b

to Edwards. Naturally, his wife being in the control room did not help matters. 

X-15A-2 s record speedflight: While I was no longer directly responsible for the I

or ball nose by the time Pete Knight made the record setting flight in the X -15 

A-2, I was vitally interested in the performance ofboth systems. There was a concern 

over whether or not the ball nose (flow direction sensor for angle of attack and sidesli

would continue to function at the predicted peak temperatures expected to be reached 

this flight. Working with Jon Ball, the engineer responsible for the flow direction sensor, we decided that the most realistic test that we could perform would be to operate 

system while it was positioned in the exhaust ofthe Center's F-100. The engine was r

with the afterburner ignited for several minutes with the ball nose operating just fine. 

not remember how high the temperatures got on the ball nose or how long we operate

the high temperatures during the afterburner test, but they were as high as or higher th

predicted for the X-15 speed flight and the system was cleared for the flight. The syst

did freeze for a few seconds at maximum heating during the X-15 mission but recove

and functioned properly for the remainder ofthe flight. 

Jack McKays Accident: On launching over Mud Lake, Nevada, the engine failed to 

reach full power and Jack had to jettison the fuel and oxidizer and land at Mud Lake. 

was very tense in the control room during Jack's descent to the lakebed. When the lan

ing gear collapsed and the airplane rolled over there was a great deal of concern for Ja

safety. I was impressed on how calm everyone remained and how quickly recovery ac

ties were initiated. 

Joe Walkers Accident: We were well into the X-15 follow-on program when Joe w

involved in the XB-70/F -104 midair collision. I remember hearing in the hall that mid

had occurred. I immediately went to Jim Love's Office. Jim was the X-15 Program D

tor and he had a speaker that was tied in with the FRC's air to air/air to ground comm

nications system. Several people were in the office listening. It was confirmed that Jo

was involved but one ofthe aircraft had reported seeing a parachute. We were all hop

that Joe had made it down safely and it was not until an hour or so later when we lear

Joe had not survived. Everyone in the Center was very depressed. Joe had always see

bigger than life itself and in spite ofJoe's temper, everyone really respected him. I thi

everyone felt a real loss. The accident had occurred in the morning and the rest ofthe 

was a complete washout. 

Q: Several ofthe X-15 flights exceeded 50 mile altitudes. Do you remember any spec

ofthe flights? 

A: Altitude Predictor for Joe Walkers record altitude flight: There was a great deal of 

concern on the part ofthe flight planners that as flights approached 400K feet, the ang

of attack required for re-entry would cause the vehicle to bounce right back out ofthe 

atmosphere and too steep of a reentry would create too much heating on the vehicle w

153 
I approached Warren Wilson who was head offlight planning, having replaced Dick 

Day who had transferred to Houston to participate in the Apollo program. I suggested to 

Warren that we could design an altitude predictor that would tell the pilot when to shut 

the engine down to achieve his desired altitude. After I explained our approach he indicated he would be willing to evaluate it in the X -15 simulator. I gave Jim Black, my lead 

engineer on the IFDS, the equations that I wanted him to mechanize and he proceeded to 

build it. The test ofthe device on the simulator was successful and a second one was built 

and installed on the aircraft for Joe's flight. During the flight, Joe shut the engine down 

when the predictor indicated he would reach 360 K feet. 

Unfortunately, radar showed he reached 354,200 feet not the desired 360K. Assuming 

radar was correct, this was still less than a 2% error. Those ofus involved were delighted 

with the performance except for Joe who was unhappy and was quick to let us know 

about it at the party that evening. The altitude predictor continued to be used on high 

altitude flights with good results. 

Ball Nose problems: At low dynamic pressures, below 4 lbs/square foot, i.e. very high 

altitudes, it was found that the Ball Nose would wander slightly, oscillating around zero 

degrees angle of attack and side slip. Initially this was of some concern to the pilots as 

accurate display of angle of attack and side slip were critical to a safe reentry. As soon as 

the dynamic pressure increased, the system again functioned just fine. We tried adjusting 

the system gain to get better response but, the transducers in the nose just could not sense 

The X-15 #3 

shortly before Joe 

Walker's flight 

to 354,200 feet 

on August 22, 

1963. The flight 

made use of an 

altitude predictor to 

prevent an altitude 

overshoot, which 

would have made 

re-entry difficult. 

(E-10282) 

154 
by Bell would do the job. Bell asked us to provide the radar altimeter and I worked w

Teledyne Ryan in San Diego to develop this system. Due to a severe limitation on trav

funds, we were forced to fly in the Center's Aero Commander to attend the preliminar

design review which was held at the Bell Aircraft facility in Buffalo. There were four 

us who made the flight with Joe Walker as our pilot. It was interesting flying across th

country with Joe. It took us two full days to get from Edwards to Buffalo and while tr

eling we had to make a number ofpit stops. At each stop, the press, usually local telev

sion crews, were there to meet and interview Joe. At that time Joe was probably the m

famous test pilot in the world, setting all kinds ofrecords in the X -15 and was good pr

material. 

Q: The LLRV was a very unusual vehicle. What were some ofthe design issues you h

to deal with? 


A: Radar Altimeter: It was not known whether or not the radar altimeter would operate properly at very low altitudes. This was because the signal would be transmitted an

reflected back through the exhaust plume ofthe jet engine as it impinged on the groun

The effect ofthis exhaust plume i.e. super heated gases on the signal was an unknown

Radar altimeters had never been operated in this environment before. We had the man

facturer run some ground tests and we evaluated the performance ofthe system during 

tether tests ofthe LLRV. The results of all tests were fine and as far as I know the syst

never gave problems during LLRV flights. 

Q: It used an early fly-by-wire system. What were the specifics? 

A: I was not really involved with the control system, as I had no specific responsibiliti

in this area. It was strictly an on/off set ofrockets, I do not recall the size ofthe rocket 

gines but, they were various sizes some quite small. Their thrust was generated by pas

hydrogen peroxide over a silver catalyst, producing steam. I did make a trip to a rocke

engine company located at the Van Nuys Airport in the San Fernando Valley with Don 

Bellman, the LLRV Program Manager. As I recall this company manufactured some v

small rocket engines which burned monomethyl hydrazine and Don was looking into 

small thrusters to provide attitude control for the vehicle. Since this fuel was extremely 

hazardous to work with I think Don preferred using something we were more familiar 

with and, even though it too was hazardous, elected to go with hydrogen peroxide rock

motors. 

Q: What incidents involving the LLRV stand out in your memory? 

A: It was not really an incident but, an example ofthe "can do" attitude ofthe Center a

Paul Bikle's philosophy. We had contracted with Bell to build two LLRV's. When fund

ing got to the point where Paul did not feel there was enough money for Bell to assem

the 2nd vehicle and properly test it, rather than overrun the budget, he ordered the comp

ny to ship the pieces to the FRC. Our Civil Service mechanics and technicians assemb

155 
g gg , p, g g

and technicians in their offices and on the hangar floors. He had one ofthe smoothest running highly motivated organizations I have ever seen. At his weekly project review meetings you better know the status ofyour project because ifyou tried to bluff Paul would 

catch you. Everyone that I knew in the Center and outside the Center respected Paul. 

I remember the first X -15 post flight debriefing I attended after I started working at the 

Center in 1961. I had to report on the performance ofthe IFDS (which was not good). I 

knew very few people at the Center and really had not had time to get to know the system 

and certainly didn't know why it had performed badly. I had reported to work on July 25th 

and the flight was on August lOth. I did not sit at the main conference table but elected to 

take a seat in the second tier of chairs surrounding the table. I managed to stumble my 

way through a report. While I was talking, I noticed a short plump bald headed guy with 

a big cigar who kept turning around to see who was reporting. Our badges then were little 

round (about one and a half inches in diameter) plastic covered metal pins with a yellow 

strip which had NASA-FRC printed on it. Our organization (Data Systems) was printed 

above the yellow strip and below it was our name (or, it may have been the other way 

around). The short plump fellow was really straining trying to read my name. Everybody 

accepted my report without comment and after the meeting I asked one ofthe engineers 

who that guy with the big cigar was. He replied why that's Paul Bikle, the Center Director. It was not long before I had a chance to meet Paul and I was truly impressed and can 

honestly say appearances can certainly be deceiving. Paul was a brilliant man. 

Security incident: One interesting incident occurred when, during an X-15 flight I took 

some visitors from Honeywell to the roof ofthe main building where you could see the 

exhaust trail ofthe X-15 when it was launched over Mud Lake. Before launch a YF-12 

made a landing on the main runway. This was right after President Johnson announced 

that they were being tested at Edwards. I commented that according to the LA Times, they 

had been testing them in Nevada and had just transferred them to Edwards and the Times 

was probably right as I had not seen them until the previous week. 

About a month later I received a phone call from Paul's secretary, Pat Marsh, telling me 

that Paul wanted to see me at 4:00 that afternoon. I explained to her that I had a car pool 

and they would not want to wait for me. A few minutes later she came back on the line 

and said don't worry, Paul will give you a ride home. At 4:00 I walked into Paul's office 

to find two Air Force colonels sitting with Paul. Paul introduced us and said that these two 

gentlemen would like a word with me. Well, it was more than a word. They accused me 

ofviolating security regulations by discussing the [Blackbird] program with people not 

cleared. Since, at that time, I was not cleared for this program, I explained that the only 

thing I had discussed was the article in the LA Times. Their comments were to the effect, 

that by saying I had not seen the vehicles before President Johnson's announcement, I 

as a NASA scientist was confirming that they [the YF-12s] were being tested in Nevada. 

They spent about 45 minutes warning me ofthe penalties that I could suffer for these 

'violations of security'. They finally left with saying that no charges would be pressed at 

this time but, warned me to keep my mouth shut in the future. 

Paul and I went downstairs and out into the parking lot, climbed into his VW Bug and 

started for home. Paul laughed about the whole affair, telling me not to worry about it and 

156 
hour or so, making many turns and finally they would stop and he would be hustled in

a building where he would be given a briefing. At the conclusion of the briefing he wo

be returned to his car in the same manner that he was taken to the meeting. 

When we got to my house, he again said don't worry nothing will come ofthis and 

nothing did. Eventually, I was asked to provide some technical support to that program 

and was granted the appropriate clearances for it. 

Transfer to Research: I was interested in Guidance Systems Research and with the 

X-15 Inertial Flight Data System problems resolved (it was now as functional and reli

as other X-15 systems), Paul suggested that I transfer to the Research Division where h

thought we needed this kind ofresearch performed. A new branch was established in t

Research Division under Hal Walker who was Assistant Director of Research for Fligh

Dynamics and I transferred there to manage that branch in June, 1965. 

Later years: In 1983 my wife and I returned to Lancaster to attend a party for some 

close friends celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary. The couple, Lee and Sarah Je

were also good friends with Paul and Ann Bikle, who were also in attendance. Lee and 

Sarah were early residents at Edwards, as were Paul and Ann. At that time, civilians w

allowed to live on the base. Paul worked for the Air Force and Lee worked for JPL at 

their facility at Edwards. Both had families ofthe same age and the ladies became clos

friends. 

We stopped at the table where Paul and his wife Ann were sitting to say hello. It was 

obvious that Ann's health was failing. Paul still appeared healthy; he had been warned 

a number ofyears earlier that he had some arterial blockage and needed bypass surgery

Paul's response was reported to be: What is the life expectancy with and without the su

gery? When he found out it was about the same, he elected to change his life style, giv

up his cigars and starting an exercise program. It was not many months after the party 

we heard Ann had passed away and soon after that Lee also passed away. 

We lost personal contact with Paul but through Sarah kept track ofhis status. She to

us that after Ann died, Paul was lost for companionship. He had been estranged from h

oldest son for a number ofyears. His youngest son no longer lived in the Antelope Val

ley and he was hard pressed for adult companionship. Finally Paul went to live with hi

youngest son where he eventually did have a heart attack and passed away. 

I spent several years in the Research Division leading the Guidance and Display 

Branch .... My old organization in Data Systems Division was renamed the Guidance an

Display Systems Branch and was led by Jim Black. Following are some ofthe project

that we developed or supported within my organization. 

Moving Tape Displays: As part ofthe X-15 follow-on program, the Air Force Fligh

Dynamics Laboratory had a moving tape display concept that had been approved for 

X-15 #3. This was a concept they wanted to evaluate for possible application in lifting 

reentry vehicles. The pilots were not in favor ofthis concept as they would be required 

to actually read the tape display whereas they normally could glance at the positions o

needles on circular displays as part oftheir scan pattern and based on the position ofth

needles know whether or not they were getting into problem areas. However, the proje

had been approved and the FRC needed to have an interface between the project and t

X -15 and my organization was given that responsibility. We worked with the AF Fligh

157 
yp, , y, y 

at that time. It offered 4096 words ofmemory with a processing speed of one megahertz. 

I briefed their senior management on our interest in energy management and indicated 

that we felt their computer could provide us with the computing capability needed for the 

energy management solution. We suggested our energy management and/or flight path 

optimization programs would make excellent test beds for their computer. Over a period of time and following several meetings on the subject, we negotiated a loan oftheir 

computer to use in our program. The computer was installed in X-15 #3 and first flown in 

September, 1966. It was programmed to provide boost guidance and energy management 

information to the pilot using data obtained from the IFDS. Flights gathering research 

data were initiated in April, 1967. The computer was on board during Mike Adams' ill 

fated flight. The computer was severely damaged but, the memory was intact and we 

were able to get some valuable data from it for the Accident Investigation Board. 

Optimum Flight Path: Techniques for optimizing the flight path for aircraft had been 

under investigation for some time. Dynamic, real-time solutions utilizing atmospheric 

measurements offered the potential offuel and/or time savings when changing from one 

state to another over conventional hand-book methods. Larry Taylor, Harriet Smith and 

Ken Iliff, FRC researchers, had been working with a Professor Balakrishnan from, I believe, UCLA or USC and had investigated optimum climb profiles using Balakrishnan's 

epsilon method. The equations had been programmed on our simulation ofthe ALERT 

computer and on F -104 simulation runs showed promise ofsignificant improvement in 

the time required to climb from take-off to cruising altitude. Our intention was to eventually install the ALERT in one ofthe Center's F-104s to validate the fuel and/or time savings. Additionally, we planned to investigate other techniques utilizing this computer and 

had to abandon them when the computer was lost in Mike Adams' accident. While it was 

installed in the X-15, it was programmed to provide optimum boost guidance commands 

to the pilot. We had a number of successful flights before the accident. 

Energy Management: There was a great deal of interest in providing on-board energy 

management guidance to the pilot ofun-powered lifting reentry vehicles. Bill Cockayne 

ofBell Aircraft had been investigating a predictor concept that computed the extreme 

dimensions ofthe ground area attainable by the vehicle. This concept was customized for 

the X -15 and we planned to evaluate it using the ALERT computer. A model ofthe X -15 

was programmed in the computer and, as reentry was set up, using the initial conditions 

provided by the on-board systems, the model was rapidly flown through a maximum 

range and a maximum cross range. This information could then be displayed as a cardioid that varied in size depending on the vehicle energy level. Landing sites would be 

programmed into the computer and any of these sites that fell within the cardioid could 

be flown to. We had a successful evaluation ofthis on the X-15 simulator, using a ground 

based digital computer to simulate the ALERT. Data flights were initiated in April, 1967. 

Monocular project: Again, we were pursuing our interest in lifting reentry vehicles. It 

had been suggested that an indirect viewing system may be necessary for landing lifting reentry vehicles. A monocular viewing system would require a very small opening; 

indeed it could be deployed after the reentry was completed before the final approach to a 

landing. We obtained a rather large system that had been used in a tank and mounted it on 

158 
special purpose computers to solve the coordinate transformation matrix. Frequently 

this matrix was hard wired into the computer for improved speed ofthe solution. These 

systems had not been flown in aircraft and we were interested in investigating problem

associated with this application. We were also interested in investigating the use of a 

general purpose airborne computer to solve the transformation matrix. We were succes

ful in obtaining two surplus systems from an Air Force reentry vehicle flight test progra

Again, we were intended to use the ALERT computer in the F -104 aircraft. We were ab

to complete a successful simulation program before terminating the effort with the loss 

the ALERT in the X -15 accident. 

I subsequently became Hal Walker's deputy in April, 1968. We divided the duties of 

managing the Flight Dynamics research efforts between us. Hal handled the theoreticaV 

analytical functions including handling qualities, while I oversaw more ofthe system re

lated activities, including guidance and navigation, pilot displays and flight controls. Ev

before becoming Hal's deputy I was getting more interested in flight control and flight 

control systems. On the day that we lost X-15 #3 I was in Cambridge, MA at NASA's 

Electronics Research Center participating in a meeting ofNASA's Advisory Committee on Guidance and Control. We were reviewing the material assembled from Gemini 

regarding the control problems experienced by Armstrong and Scott. 

Q: You joined the Shuttle Approach and Landing Test (ALT) program for the last two 

flights. What were your duties? 

A: Actually, I did not join the ALT program until some time after I left the F-8 DigitalFly-By-Wire (DFBW) program. I had a number of assignments prior to joining that (th

ALT) program including: 

NASA Headquarters: Frank Sullivan was very upset when he heard that I was no 

longer managing the DFBW project. He wanted me to come back to NASA Headquarte

and work with Pete Kurzhals, who was overseeing the DFBW Program from Headquar

ters. Headquarters kept a tight control ofthe budget and provided justification for the 

program and progress reports on it to Congress. Pete was on a temporary assignment at 

headquarters from Langley and would be returning to Langley sometime in the future. 

Frank wanted me to take Pete's place and felt we needed a period of overlapped assignments. First though, the Mission Analysis Division (MAD), a headquarters division 

located at Ames because ofthe proximity to the universities in the Bay Area, needed sh

term help from someone with flight research experience and I was asked to go up there

Beeler agreed and I actually spent about 4 months working with the MAD people. Sinc

my home base was DFRC, following the TDY at MAD, I returned to DFRC still Hal 

Walker's deputy. 

After my return to DFRC, I received a letter from Dr. Seymour Himmel, who had 

replaced Neil as Roy Jackson's deputy. In the letter Sy said that Frank Sullivan needed 

help in his office and he, Sy, had discussed the possibility of a "career advancement" 

assignment for me with Lee Sherer, who by that time had been named FRC's Center 

Director. Sy said Mr. Sherer had agreed that it would be a good temporary assignment f

me, broadening my experience. I was asked to respond as early as possible to this offer

159 
Programs. Frank Sullivan decided to retire midway through my tour at Headquarters. 

Based on Frank's recommendations, Pete Kurzhals was offered and accepted the position 

as Frank's replacement. 

My one and one-halfyear tour was due to be completed at the end ofJanuary, 1974. 

With two children in school I felt it would be beneficial for them to leave in December, 

minimizing the time they would be out ofschool due to the long Christmas break. Consequently, shortly after Pete took over the Division in the summer of 1973 I asked him to 

start finding a replacement for me. He offered to make my position permanent but I felt it 

was a dead end job and declined. Since Langley and the Flight Research Center had both 

sent people in for tours at Headquarters, it was now Ames' or Lewis' tum. The individual 

selected as my replacement was Jay Christensen from Ames, the same person I had originally replaced on the X-15 on the IFDS. Jay moved to Headquarters in early September to 

work with me. We moved back to Lancaster in December, 1973. 

Center Development: Returning from the 17 month NASA Headquarters assignment, I 

was assigned to work in the Center Development Office under De Beeler who, in addition 

to being Deputy Director of FRC was overseeing this office. Jim Adkins was in the Office 

with me and, since his last position had been abolished, he was evaluating the option of 

taking an early retirement. He had 30 days from the abolishment ofhis last position to 

make a decision and finally on the last day he elected to retire. 

Outlookfor Aeronautics/Outlookfor Space 1980-2000: In early 1975 Jim Fletcher, 

NASA's Administrator, decided that it would be prudent to have studies conducted on the 

future of aeronautics and space to help guide NASA Management on where best to invest 

their research money to ensure the US retained technical dominance in the 2000s. These 

studies were the Outlook for Aeronautics and the Outlook for Space. De assigned me 

to participate in these studies as Dryden's representative. I had very little to do with the 

Outlook for Space study as Dryden's space interests were tied to MSFC, JSC and KSC 

and Dryden was dependent on these Centers for space related projects. I did attend two of 

the study's meetings, which were totally dominated by JPL. Dr. Carl Sagan was the JPL 

spokesman and it was apparent that their study would focus on planetary exploration. 

The Outlook for Aeronautics study team consisted ofrepresentatives from ARC (3), 

LaRC (2), LeRC (2), JSC (1 ), NASA Hdqs.(3), DoD(2), FAA(2), and I represented 

Dryden. The team was led by Dr. Leonard Roberts, Chairman, Director ofAeronautics 

at Ames and Robert Bower, Alternate Chairman, Director ofAeronautics at Langley. I 

actively participated in this study which lasted from August, 197 4 through September, 

1975. We met with senior technical and management people from some 75 companies, 

government agencies, and universities, soliciting their views ofthe future (1980-2000). 

Based on the study, a comprehensive report was written by the team and released by Dr. 

Fletcher in 1976. 

De Beeler decided to retire and did so while I was involved with the Outlook for 

Aeronautics Study. Lee Scherer decided to refocus the efforts ofthe Center Development 

Office more into advanced planning and named me as a Special Assistant to the Center 

Director for Advanced Planning. On De Beeler's retirement, Lee Scherer moved Dave 

Scott into the Deputy Center Director position. I continued to report to the Center Director when Lee accepted the position as KSC's Center Director and Dave became the FRC 

160 
Project Manager. This was in 1977 with two ALT flights remaining. The ALT team was 

operating out ofthe North Base facilities. JSC was responsible for the Orbiter, assignin

flight crews, establishing flight schedules, controlling the vehicle when it was airborne, 

and assessing the results ofthe flights. KSC was tasked with all ground handling ofthe 

vehicle, this included maintenance, movement ofthe vehicle, mating/de-mating and 

servicing/de-servicing. While he was the FRC Project Manager for Shuttle, Ike retained 

his office in Building 4800, interfacing with the JSC and KSC managers through trips t

the North Base and Shuttle facilities, participating in meetings which included scheduling, pre and post flight, crew briefings. Before Ike would formalize my assignment as 

DFRC's Shuttle Project Manager, it was necessary for me to go to North Base and be 

interviewed by KSC's site manager. Evidently I passed the interview because shortly af

the interview Ike solidified my appointment. I kept a low profile during the remaining t

ALT flights ensuring DFRC's assigned responsibilities were met. DFRC was responsib

for providing: base support which included coordinating AFFTC support, overseeing 

the maintenance contract for maintenance ofthe 747, radar, radio and telemetry suppor

through GSFC, and flight crews for the 747. 

747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft: A used American Airlines 747 aircraft had been purcha

by NASA and extensively modified by Boeing to carry the Space Shuttle Orbiter. It wa

assigned to JSC but the original primary flight crew was DFRC personnel, Fitz Fulton 

and Tom McMurtry, pilots with Vic Horton and Ray Young as flight engineers. JSC 

contracted with American Airlines to provide the maintenance ofthe aircraft and since 

aircraft was based at Dryden in Area A, the maintenance crew worked out of our facilities. Rather than have a JSC employee placed on site to oversee the maintenance crew, 

JSC asked Dryden to perform this function for them. Herb Anderson was the Flight Op

erations Engineer assigned to the aircraft and he oversaw the activities ofthe maintenan

crew. He was assisted by Ed Browne, who provided quality assurance inspection ofwo

done by the maintenance crew. This team was in-place throughout the ALT Program. 

Sometime after the delivery ofthe Enterprise to MSFC, the American Airlines maintenance contract expired. Rather than renew the contract, JSC elected to use Serv-Air, 

the contractor they had for maintaining their aircraft in Houston and replaced the whole 

maintenance crew. Herb had an outstanding relationship with the AA crew and was qui

upset with JSC for changing contractors. When we moved the Columbia to KSC for ST

1, Herb did not hide his displeasure over the change in contractors from Joe Algranti, 

who was in charge of aircraft at JSC. Joe asked me to have Herb removed which I was 

very reluctant to do and I continued to procrastinate about taking any action. Finally, Jo

ignoring all chain of command protocol, went directly to Ed Browne and told him that 

wanted him to take over as technical monitor ofthe SCA maintenance contract. That di

not sit well with Dryden and I was told by Flight Operations management to ignore Joe 

and keep Herb on the job. Since the maintenance contract was a JSC contract, I felt it w

their decision ifthey wanted to change the technical monitor oftheir contract. I did not 

feel they had the right to name a Dryden employee contract monitor without getting approval from Dryden but, they could certainly request a change if they saw a problem w

the one they had. I called Joe and explained to him that we could not have Ed Browne, 

a Dryden employee, as the TM oftheir contract and if Herb was unacceptable to him, I 

161 
A: Based on wind tunnel data and calculations made by Boeing engineers the tail of 

the 747 had a very limited structural life due to the turbulent air flow from the Orbiter 

impinging on it. Consequently, a tail cone had been designed and placed on the Orbiter 

to minimize the turbulent air flow and subsequent damage to the 747 tail during carrier flights. The first three ALT flights had been made with the tail cone on and all data 

obtained on the low speed handling and performance characteristics ofthe vehicle were 

from this configuration. There would be no tail cone on the orbiter when it returned from 

orbit and it was important to know these characteristics prior to committing to the Orbital 

Test Flight phase of development. To get the required data, it was necessary to fly with 

no tail cone during the last two ALT flights. The fourth ALT flight included a planned 

lake bed landing while the fifth and final flight was planned for the main runway at Edwards. For that flight, we had to set-up the Microwave Scanning Beam Landing System 

(MSBLS) parallel to the main runway. 

Q: The fifth flight was the runway landing, with the PIO. What were the causes of this? 

A: PIO of course stands for pilot induced oscillations and is frequently caused by the pilot 

being out ofphase with the control system. In this case, there was an extensive time lag 

between the time the pilot made a control input and the time the control system responded. The pilot, Fred Raise, would make a control input and when he did not get a timely 

response he would put in a stronger command. The resulting vehicle response from the 

first command was fine but then came the response from the stronger second command 

and the pilot would start making inputs to correct for the second command's response. 

Each cycle would result in larger and larger changes in attitude( s) ofthe vehicle. By 

removing his hands from the controls, the control system would automatically damp out 

the oscillations. The problem basically was associated with the time delay from the pilot 

input through the computer to the actuators and finally moving the control surface. 

Following the lastALT flight, the KSC on-site personnel prepped the Enterprise for 

transport to the Marshal Center where it was to undergo some vibration testing and fit 

checks with the external tank. When these tests were completed we then transported the 

Enterprise to KSC and checked out their Mate/De-mate (MDD) facility. I was at KSC for 

the arrival of the 747/Enterprise and participated in the de-mating ofthe vehicles. The 

arrival ofthe Enterprise was a big event at the Cape. It seemed like every KSC employee 

and contractor employee turned out to see the landing and taxi to the Mate/De-mate 

facility. The Enterprise was used for a number of tests including fit checks at KSC before 

eventually finding its way to the Smithsonian. As I recall the trip to the Smithsonian included a Public Affairs grand tour of several cities before it finally reached Dulles. 

Q: You worked on the STS-1 and -2landings. What were your duties? 

A: There was a lot ofwork to be done after the ALT Program was completed and before 

the Orbital Flight Test Program began. I continued as Dryden's Program Manager for the 

Shuttle, initially I reported to Ike Gillam. This placed the Shuttle program above other 

162 
and that we were prepared to provide the necessary support. I had to walk a very narrow 

path to obtain Center support as Dryden's Flight Operations Management resented the 

terference that this outside program was having with their day-to-day flight activities an

placed many roadblocks in my path. Dryden was not allocated any additional personne

positions to support the Shuttle Program and supporting Shuttle took resources away fr

Dryden Projects. I do not remember that Ike ever stood up to his senior managers and t

them that the Shuttle Program was a National Program and directed them to support it. 

one point, the problem with Flight Operations Management got so bad that Ike called m

into his office and told me that I had to go and meet with them, somehow make amends 

and ask for their support. Ike was unwilling to direct them to provide support. 

Fortunately for me, the attitude ofthe Flight Operations Management did not prevail 

throughout all ofthe Flight Operations [FO], the 747 flight crew members were outstan

ing as were many ofthe FO personnel assigned to the Program. Besides the flight crew

personnel from FO who provided outstanding support who I can specifically remember 

included Herb Anderson, Mike Arebalo, Charlie Baker, Jim Phelps, Gary Trippensee, J

Edgeworth, Herman Dorr, and Ed Sabo. The majority of the personnel at Dryden was 

excited to be a part ofthis National Program and gave me nearly all ofthe support I cou

ask for. I worked closely with JSC and KSC to identifY the support requirements and pr

vided the details ofthe requirements to the various Dryden functional areas so they cou

develop plans on how to meet the requirements and estimate the resources needed. 

Range support to Shuttle was a GSFC responsibility and our range people had a direc

link with the GSFC people. Looking back at the events ofthe time, it is kind ofinterest

ing that I was never asked by DFRC senior management to provide a status report on o

preparations for the Orbital Flight Test Program yet, the Manned Space Flight Management Council, asked that I attend their meetings and briefthem on the SCA and Landin

site status on a regular basis. 

Delivery ofthe Columbia: A special road had to be constructed along the West shore 

ofRosamond dry lake to provide the connection between Rosamond Blvd. and the road 

from Plant 42 to move the orbiters to Dryden where they would be mated to the 747 fo

transport to KSC. The Dryden facilities people, ifi remember right Ski Markey, worke

with the AFFTC, KSC, Rockwell, and the Corp ofEngineers to get this done. Due to 

heavy rains, some repair work had to be completed on this road just before the Columb

was due to be moved to our facility. Finally the day ofthe move came. It was late in the 

afternoon when the Columbia finally reached the taxi strip leading to the Dryden ramp 

area and to Shuttle Area A. When the Rockwell move team reached what was thought t

be Dryden's property line, they refused to move the Columbia onto Dryden property un

NASA accepted the responsibility for it by signing the DD250. This document transfer

custody ofthe vehicle from Rockwell to NASA. I seemed to be the only person available to sign this document on NASA's behalf and, even though I did not think I had the 

authority to do so, I went ahead and signed just to get Rockwell to continue the move to 

DFRC's Shuttle Area 'A'. As I signed the DD250, I remember looking at the price that 

had been typed into the value line ofthe document. It was $1 billion and I thought to 

myself, nothing better happen to this vehicle while it was in our custody or I would hav

to work many lifetimes to pay for it. 

163 
tively low altitude to keep from cold soaking any fluids on board to the point offreezing 

as there was no heat supplied from the 747. The 747 consumed large quantities offuel 

flying at these low altitudes and required several stops for refueling before getting to KSC 

and, since the mated pair was such an impressive sight, NASA wanted them seen by as 

many people as possible. On this flight JSC provided their Gulfstream II to carry personnel who were thought might be required enroute for any contingency that might occur. 

Deke asked me to accompany the move as the 7 4 7 was my responsibility even though I 

had a Flight Operations Engineer, Herb Anderson, making the trip. Our 747 maintenance 

crew flew on the 747 while Herb and I were on the Gulfstream. Our first scheduled stop 

was San Antonio, TX, however as we started to cross Texas, a series of thunderstorms 

was reported around the San Antonio area and we diverted to Biggs AFB, adjacent to Ft. 

Hood at El Paso, TX. The Army sent a unit over to the base and placed guards around the 

aircraft. 

We ended up spending two nights at El Paso due to weather problems. On the first night 

a number of the guys decided to go to Juarez, Mexico, just across the river from El Paso 

for dinner. Herb Anderson and I elected not to go and ate near the motel in a fast food 

place. After dinner the wind was picking up quite strong as a front approached, so Herb 

and I decided to go out to the base to check on the condition ofthe aircraft. It was a cold 

night and when we got to the 747/Columbia we saw the guards were fully exposed to the 

164 

The fifth and final 

ALT flight ended 

in a landing on 

the concrete 

Edwards runway. 

The Enterprise 

experienced pilotinduced oscillations 

resulting from a 

timing delay in 

computers. 

(EC-77 -9055) 
on the panels. 

When the second group came up, I neglected to close the trap door and while walking around pointing out the pictures, I stepped right into the open space where the doo

should have been closed, falling until my arms caught the sides ofthe opening. This k

me from falling all the way down and possibly seriously injuring myself. As it was, I 

managed to crack two ribs in the fall. The next day we were invited to see a B-25 that 

was in the process ofbeing restored and, following that, most ofthe people spent the r

of the day resting. 

We finally left El Paso, spending the next night in San Antonio. Even though it was 

a relatively short hop from El 

Paso to San Antonio, we we

Phase B Shuttle Studies to To Be Awarded ,...,... •• ~-·~~ to stop there to me

relations commitment

Proposals Gulfstream landed aheafrom industry for pre- It will approach an airline type environliminary definition and planning studies ment for crew, passengers, and payload; 


of a space shuttle system for transporta­ and operate with short turn .around times circling for our landing

tion between earth and low .orbit have compatible with a high launch rate and other aircraft was across 

been submitted to NASA Headquarters. low operating costs compared to present from us and we could se

Several Center engineers are partic­ systems. a sensation it was caus

ipating in the evaluation of the various The vertical take-off, horizontal Cars were stopping in th

proposals. landing shuttle could be in operation by 

ofthe freeway, peopl

The two stage, fully reuseable space 1977 or 1978. High performance liquid 

~"''~-""'E out to get a better v

shuttle is a logistic vehicle for manned hydrogen-liquid oxygen fueled engines 

Earth orbital operations including place­ will make up the space shuttle's main this phenomenal sight tha

ment, maintenance, and retrieval of ex­ propulsion system. 747/Columbia made flyin

perimental modules and satellites; delivery Proposals were submitted to thf was something to see. Dic

of propulsive stage and payloads; delivery NASA Office of Manned Space Flight. cobie was piloting the 747 

of propellants to a space station or orbit­ From the proposals, up to thre this time and made a pering vehicle; and short duration special firms will be selected for parallel 11-mont~, landing at Kelly AFB ju

purpose orbital missions. Phase B studies under fixed price con­

""'·"'"'"' of San Antonio. I did The reuseable shuttle will signifi­ tracts. The Phase B contracts wi II be manmention it earlier but, De

cantly reduce space transportation costs; aged by NASA's Marshall Space Flight 

(Continued next column) Center and Manned Spacecraft Center. chase on the 747 in a T-

the entire trip. We opened 

the 7 4 7 and a hatch in the 

top ofthe airplane where one could see the Orbiter. We kept the vehicles open while 

hundreds of guests paraded through. 

We were now two days behind schedule, with still two days to go to reach the Cape 

as another overnight stop had been scheduled either at Atlanta or New Orleans. I had a 

family commitment that I was very reluctant to break so, I approached Deke and told h

that I would like to drop out and return home to meet this commitment and since Herb 

was along, I thought I was surplus. When I talked about keeping the family commitme

Deke's response was, "Mel, I think you have your priorities right. While we would like 

have you accompany us, go ahead and go." The Columbia eventually reached KSC on 

March 1979. 

Preparingfor STS-1: It is a matter ofrecord that over two years lapsed between the 

165 
the contract with JSC to maintain the 7 4 7 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft and had a team of 5 

mechanic/technicians led by Jerry Eudy. Herman Dorr, Jim Phelps and Gary Trippensee 

provided additional help as Airfield Support Coordinators and Ed Sabo was added as a 

Convoy Coordinator starting with pre-landing activities and ending on the departure of 

the 747/Columbia. During this period, we provided support on a 24/7 basis. 

While we had a good relationship withAl Harley and Don Sharpe, initially it seemed 

there was a constant struggle over who was responsible for what. We finally reached an 

agreement that any piece of equipment that came in contact with the Orbiter was KSC's, 

anything to do with the astronauts was JSC's, and everything else belonged to us. Even 

though a piece of equipment or a function belonged to KSC or JSC, supporting KSC or 

JSC still fell on Dryden's shoulders as the host organization at the landing site. Of course, 

Deke had the overall responsibility assisted by his very able deputy, Tom McElmurry. 

Tom was a retired Air Force colonel who during the ALT program had been allowed by 

JSC to fly NASA T-38s. He was finally grounded during OFT when it was discovered he 

was and had been totally deaf in his left ear. Tom and Deke were a tireless team, always 

available to help and provide guidance where they could or to offer advice if asked. Both 

traveled frequently between Houston, the Cape, and Edwards. 

At least 6 months before the scheduled launch, controlled madness seemed to set in. 

Rehearsal, rehearsal and more rehearsals. It seemed every functional element conducted 

separate rehearsals and some part ofthe Dryden organization was involved. Of course, 

the launch slipped, the winter rains came and the lake bed got wet, requiring additional 

delay. 

KSC Support: A complete set of ground support equipment/vehicles had to be readied, 

including procedures to maintain and operate them. Toxic and explosive fumes needed 

to be purged from a returning Orbiter and massive volumes of cool air were essential to 

prevent damage to the electronic systems on board. Diesel generators were required to 

provide the electrical power necessary to run the purge and cooling units. KSC had designed the units and purchased the major elements of each unit except for the generators. 

These they found either in storage or surplus and had them shipped to DFRC. 

When we received them they were in pretty bad shape and our mechanics were required to completely refurbish them. We also assisted KSC in getting the complete units 

mounted on flatbed semi-trucks. Eventually a convoy ofvehicles was assembled that 

would rush to the Orbiter as it came to a stop following landing. Ifl remember correctly, 

the convoy included the Convoy Commander's vehicle, the Purge vehicle, the Cooling 

Unit, a SCAPE van, a giant mobile fan, the Astronauts Mobile Lounge, a stair truck, and 

the tow vehicle. The convoy was mainly staffed with KSC contractor personnel; however 

several of our people did participate in the convoy activity. Once all ofthe vehicles were 

ready, an extensive training program was undertaken to ensure the time required getting 

the purge and cooling units connected to the Orbiter and operating met the critical time 

required. 

JSC Support: JSC specified what landing aids were required during Shuttle operations. 

We were responsible for the operation of the landing aids during training flights and the 

actual mission. The ground based landing aids for STS-1 consisted ofthe Microwave 

166 
on glide slope or above or below it. We had to set up the PAPI lights for each training 

flight and for the mission. JSC had a Gulfstream II that had been modified to simulate 

the Orbiter for training. This aircraft was flown on a number oftraining missions both 

Dryden and at White Sands in New Mexico. At White Sands a contingency landing s

had been established by JSC, staffed by JSC contractor personnel. KSC was responsi

for providing the spares and depot level maintenance for the systems. Both JSC and K

asked us to assume the responsibility for the systems at White Sands. DFRC's Range 

Manager (I have forgotten his name and could not find it in my personal notes) and I, 

along with our range maintenance contractor's on site manager Bill Montgomery, ma

trip to White Sands to evaluate what we were being asked to do. After looking the sit

tion over, our Range Manager indicated he did not feel we should accept the responsi

ity for the White Sands operation; we told JSC and KSC that we did not want to take 

the function. 

We also had to maintain a facility for the flight crews that had been set up during th

ALT Program between Building 4800 and the Air Force Fire Station adjacent to the ta

strip. As I recall, this facility consisted offour double wide trailers connected together

was divided up into bedrooms, bathroom facilities and a kitchen. Our biomedical faci

ity, managed by Dr. William (Bill) Winter, was in the same area. Bill was a competen

medical professional who had retired as a Navy Flight Surgeon before coming to wor

Dryden. Earlier, he had played a key role in the development of Dryden's RPRV capa

ity. He and his staff always provided exceptional support during the entire period that 

I was associated with the shuttle. Another individual I do not want to forget to mentio

who I could always count on to provide outstanding support, it seemed 24 hours each 

day, was Joe D'Agostino. Joe was in charge of Dryden security and, even though frequently the support help we needed was not necessarily a security matter, I could cou

on Joe to make sure it was provided. 

STS-1 was hectic! About ten days before launch we were invaded by the press. Los 

Angeles television stations began setting up for local and network coverage ofthe lan

ing. Scaffolds were built along the edge ofthe lakebed adjacent to the taxi strip leadin

between the main Dryden complex and Area A to elevate the cameras and reporters s

they had a better view. Generators were set up to provide power; cables seemed to ru

in every direction. It was early April and with early sunsets; bright lights were turned 

for reporters to provide their live reports for the evening news. The whole area seeme

surreal. 

In addition to the television people, newspaper, magazine and radio reporters from 

over the world arrived and had to be taken care of. Ralph Jackson and his team maintained excellent control over this menagerie, passing out continuing up to date release

responding to questions and requests for interviews. I was asked to be interviewed da

sometimes several times a day. Usually they wanted the interview scheduled live for 

the evening news. Every morning John Yardley, NASA's Associate Administrator for 

Manned Space Flight held a Mission Team teleconference that I was required to parti

pate in. During the teleconference every one of the sites supporting the STS-1 missio

was required to give a status report. The workday for me ran from shortly after 6 in th

morning until 8 or 9 in the evening. 

167 
even though Charlie Baker and Ed Sabo had towed more aircraft and other flight vehicles 

than the KSC people had ever seen). 

Since there was a possibility of an Abort-Once-Around, it was important to get them 

on site as soon as possible to get the purge and cooling units attached and operating to 

minimize the damage to the electronic systems on board the Orbiter. People who needed 

access to Area A needed to have the proper badges to gain entry. Normally, to have access 

to Area A, one had to participate in a training session which included both classroom and 

site walk-down to become familiar with the facilities and hazard areas. We had two guard 

stations, one to pass through to enter Area A and a second that allowed one access to the 

MDD area. This station was a safe distance from the MDD and was activated when an 

Orbiter was in the facility. When one entered through this station you had to leave your 

badge with the guard. This was to ensure that we knew who and how many were within 

the hazard area in the event of an incident. In order to minimize the last minute congestion, we had prepared a training film covering the requirements needed for access and 

sent this film to KSC. They, in tum, provided us with a list oftheir personnel who needed 

access and who had been trained so we could have badges available for their people on 

arrival. 

The night before the landing I had gone home about 11 PM, ate a nice late dinner that 

my wife had prepared for me, showered, changed clothes and returned to Dryden. I knew 

it would be practically impossible to get any rest at home and that the traffic would be 

a nightmare in the morning. It was about 1 AM when I drove back out to the base and 

already the traffic was noticeably heavy. I checked with several of our people, found everything was moving along smoothly, and headed for the control room. 

As I recall, by the time Shuttle came about, the old X-15 control room had been totally 

reconfigured and we now had two control rooms, one called the Gold Room and the other 

the Blue Room. They were identical to each other, with an observation area for visitors 

between them. IfI remember correctly, we were using the Gold Room and I went in and 

sat down. We had people at the consoles communicating with Houston and the Cape. All 

was quiet from the Orbiter as the de-orbit bum was scheduled for some time later. Not 

much happening there so, I went down to the Shuttle area (Area A). We had a trailer there 

in which I had a second office and it was in this trailer where our airfield support coordinators fielded phone calls, coordinating support when they were not out actually providing 

support themselves. On the North wall ofthe Shuttle hangar a concrete block lean-to type 

building had been attached. In the building was a large room in which the KSC Operations Director and his staff monitored the work done on the Orbiter as it was prepped for 

its return to Kennedy. 

I went over to this facility and found they were communicating with the Cape, reporting the status ofthe MSBLS and the PAPI. These were the principle ground based systems 

providing landing cues to the pilots. By this time the JSC Gulfstream was up flying approaches, checking the performance ofthese systems. I returned to Building 4800 and the 

control room about the time the de-orbit bum had taken place. That was it; the crew was 

now committed to landing the Orbiter at Edwards. I then went down to Ike's office where 

he was entertaining several YIPs in the Executive Conference Room which was connected 

168 
turned on final, I showed him a back stairway to the roof ofthe building which we clim

to watch the landing. Immediately following the landing I escorted him through the cro

to where he made some statements to the press and then on to his airplane which was 

parked on the ramp at DFRC. Dr. Lovelace very graciously thanked me and departed. 

By the time I got back to the roof, the service vehicles were positioned at the Orbite

and the crew was being escorted off. Nearly everything we had planned and worked to 

make happen through detailed rehearsals over several years had been successfully com

pleted and now we only had to support the de-servicing of the Orbiter, the mating to th

747 and departure to KSC to complete STS-1. To my surprise, I was named "The Man 

The News" by the Editors ofthe New York Times on the day ofthe landing. This surpr

me as I did not seek that publicity and I am not sure I could have avoided it. This publ

ity did not benefit my career at Dryden as there was a good deal ofresentment on the p

of some ofthe senior management over this. 

Q: The ALT and early Shuttle flights brought huge crowds to Dryden. What do you re

lect about this? 

From left, Gordon 

Fullerton, Fred 

Haise, and Great 

Britain's Prince 

Charles after the 

fifth ALT flight. 

(E77-8862) 
all DFRC could do to handle the VIPs and the press. In fact, Ralph Jackson, Dryden's 

PAO, had major support from the other NASA centers for the press. My project team 

worked with Cal FEMA, CHP, Kern County Sheriff's Department to help them prepare 

for the crowds expected to descend on the base. I participated in the AFFTC Commander's staff meetings to briefthe general and his staff on shuttle status and support needed. 

The general assigned Dick Scobee, who subsequently became an astronaut and commanded the ill-fated flight ofChallenger, to be my counterpart at the AFFTC. Dick did an 

outstanding job, working with me developing plans and coordinating Air Force support. 

In additional he was instrumental in securing Army medical/first aid support for crowds. 

Q: Any unusual experiences during the shuttle landings? 

A: The only black mark on our STS-1 support record: There were residual hypergolic fluids on board the Orbiter when it landed. There was a danger of a spill ofthese fluids while 

prepping the Orbiter for transport back to KSC. Sumps were built around the Mate/deMate Device where the orbiter was prepped to wash any spills into. Immediately prior to 

the landing, we were required to pump the sumps dry to minimize any incidents should a 

hypergolic spill occur. No one thought to specify where the fluids from the sumps should 

be pumped to and on landing, our engineer responsible for ensuring they were pumped 

had them pumped and drained all ofthe waste right out onto the lake bed. This was 

directly in the path ofthe on-ramp where the orbiter had to be towed. The lakebed was 

marginally dry from the winter rains and the Orbiter was already sinking into the surface. 

It was impossible to tow the Orbiter through the fluids from the sumps without potential 

damage to the vehicle. We overcame this problem by scrounging every sheet of 5/8ths 

inch plywood that we could find and placed these on the lakebed, covering the fluids. The 

Orbiter was successfully towed over the plywood even though the plywood cracked as 

the Orbiter passed over it. The whole episode caused well over an hour's delay in getting 

the orbiter into the MDD. 

Chris Kraft: The day following the landing of STS-1, Chris Kraft, JSC Center Director, 

flew into Edwards to see first hand the tile damage that had occurred. I met Chris at his 

plane and accompanied him to the Shuttle Area. Before starting, I mentioned to Chris that 

an old acquaintance ofhis, Harvey Price (one of my X-15 Inertial Guidance System Technicians) had recently retired. Harvey had married one ofChris' high school sweethearts 

right after World War II was over. Dottie, Harvey's wife, had passed away some time 

before STS-1. We knew her quite well as she and Harvey had taught my wife and myself 

bridge. Chris asked how Harvey was doing and I told him I thought he was doing quite 

well. Chris said he should give Harvey a call and asked ifl had his phone number. We 

stopped at the guard's desk at the entrance to Building 4800 and looked the number up in 

the Lancaster phone directory. He used the phone in the lobby, called Harvey and spoke 

with him for about 10 minutes. I was really impressed that as busy a man as Chris was, he 

would take the time out ofhis schedule to call Harvey just to check on how he was doing. 

Hollywood: During the preps ofthe orbiter for ferry back to the Cape, I had the pleasure ofproviding Clint Eastwood with a tour ofthe Shuttle Area. Because ofthe danger 

170 
public, but also 

celebrities. Actor 

Clint Eastwood 

was given a tour 

of the shuttle area 

by Dryden Center 

Director Ike Gillam. 

(ECN-15248) 

associated with the de-servicing activities, the technicians were still working in SCAP

suits. Consequently, we could not allow Clint to get very close to the Orbiter. I explain

to him what was being done and why we could not get close. He indicated he understo

and was very gracious about it. I went ahead and briefed him on the activities that wer

still scheduled to be completed before ferrying it back to the Cape. I was impressed w

Clint; he paid very close attention to what I was saying and seemed to understand. 

Bad News: The day the Columbia was finally ready to be ferried to KSC, the mate

pair was towed up and parked at the DFRC ramp. Many ofthe Dryden and contractor 

ployees gathered at the back of the facility to view the vehicles and watch the departur

I was under the 747 with one of my team members going over some final preps when 

Gillam came up and asked to speak with me. We walked away to the side ofthe vehic

where Ike said he just received some very depressing news. He went on to say that he 

a call from Washington informing him that Dryden was no longer a Center but was no

or would be a division ofAmes in October. I asked him what his status was and he rep

that he was being reassigned to a position in Washington. He added that John Manke 

would be the Director of the Dryden facility. 

Q: You spent 20 years at Dryden. Looking back at that time, what memories stick out? 

(Over and above what you have already described.) 

A: Great Place to Work: It was great working at the FRC. This was especially true un

Center Director Paul Bikle, when it seemed we were always working on the leading e

oftechnology. Paul did an excellent job ofkeeping us isolated from the politics ofhea

quarters. This isolation seemed to end with Paul's retirement. 

Outstanding Employees: I will always be impressed with the Dryden employees th

had an opportunity to work with. They embraced every challenge with a 'can do' attitu

and were never afraid to go the extra mile to ensure project success. Every program th

I was associated with, from the X-15, LLRV, DFBW, through the Space Shuttle owes 

large portion oftheir success to these people. 

171 

···lntervi 

(Excerpted from the Johnson Space Center website

Fred Raise followed much the same path to space as Neil Armstrong had. Both ha

enlisted in the navy in the early postwar period. Both flew early jet fighters in the m

tary and returned to school to complete their engineering degrees. Raise and Armstr

both worked at the Lewis Research Center (now Glenn), before transferring to the 

Flight Research Center (now Dryden). They were both selected as astronauts and fle

lunar mission. 

Raise was involved in the initial development of the lifting bodies. He flew the 

variable stability T-33 to simulate the M2-F2's flight characteristics. He also made a 

car-tow flight in the M2-F 1 lifting body on April 22, 1966. Raise also flew the F -10

F5D, T-33, C-47, and T-37 in various support and research roles. And he flew handl

evaluations on different types of light aircraft, including the Piper PA-30, Cessna 31

and Aero Commander. While at the Flight Research Center, Raise attended the Air 

Force's Aerospace Research Pilot School at Edwards, and was the outstanding grad

of Class 64A. 

Raise is most famous as the Lunar Module pilot on Apollo 13. What was to have 

been the third manned landing on the Moon turned into a struggle for survival when 

173 
g y

g

biography correctly, that had an aviation touch with the Navy, the Marine Corps, and 

the Air Force. How did you happen to be involved with all ofthem? 

A: Well, it-I went into the Naval Aviation Cadet Program, is the way I entered the 

aviation business, as an enlisted person, a cadet. And when you graduate and are commissioned and receive your wings ..., you're given an honorable discharge from the 

navy. Then I served in the marine corps for a tour; and, when I left the marine orps, lin reserves, I went to the Air National Guard. So I had a retirement from the US Marine 

Corps, an honorable discharge. And then during 1961, I was recalled into the Air Force 

in the Tactical Air Command from the Air National Guard in Ohio for the Second Berlin Crisis. And after that 1-year assignment, I again received [an honorable discharge] 

certificate from the Air Force. 

Q: Okay. And of course that grew in part, I'm sure, out of your educational background 

starting in junior college but then on to the University of Oklahoma in Aeronautical 

Engineering. 

A: Well, the path was kind of devious. I got interested in the newspaper business and 

worked on the high school paper [as] sports editor, then the first 2 years of college I 

was in journalism and worked summers for the local paper in my hometown in Mississippi, the Biloxi-Gulfport Daily Herald. And the Korean War came along, and I wanted 

to enlist and serve. And at the time, the only program I could get into that would lead 

to a commission, which was my primary goal, was the Naval Aviation Cadet Program. So-and accidentally I ended up in the flying business, which I loved. And that 

changed my whole career path, because at that-from there I went back to school to get 

an engineering degree to become a test pilot. And that put me back at the University of 

Oklahoma for 3 years. 

Q: Oh okay. So did the-was the exposure to flying kind of coincidental? Or was that 

some deep-seated desire that you've had since you were a kid? 

A: No. It was purely accidental. I had never-when at the time I signed up for the 

program, I was 18 years old. I had graduated from high school at 16 and [had] had 2 

years of college at 18; and like most 18 year olds, I think you jump into things without 

thinking ahead very much because I had never been in an airplane-even in a commercial airliner. I had never flown at all. I just wanted to be commissioned, to be a commissioned officer; and I began to get a little worried in the preflight part ofthe program, 

where many ofthe other people in the program talked about their light aircraft, private 

flying experience and I didn't know the first thing about an airplane. But like I said, I 

took to it and I really loved the experience. 

Q: Flying is sort ofintuitive in a sense, isn't it? It's not one ofthose things that you're 

necessarily better adept at doing simply because you've had experience. But some 

174 
Q: Yeah. What sorts of aircraft were you initially involved with? 


A: Well at the time I went into flight training in 1952, I did the basic in the old Navy 

SNJ, which is-the equivalent Air Force [airplane] would be the Texan T-6. 


Q: Right. 


A: And advanced training in those days was the Hellcat, the Grumman F6F, the one 

that, you know, won fame in the Pacific War. 


Q: Prop and radial engine. 


A: Prop-radial. Both of them-both of them prop aircraft that [I] had qualified ...sh

board on two occasions. And then to quality in jets, it was a very short 


program of, like, 20 hours' conversion into the navy TV1/TV2 series, which was an 

force T-33 Shooting Star trainer version ....Going in the marine corps, [my] first squ

ron, was in Banshees, McDonnell F2Hs. The squadron, before I left, had converted 

Grumman F9F-8s, the swept-wing Cougars. 


Q: So your associations with Grumman began a long time ago. 


A: Well, if you look at the whole flying, I've flown about 80 types of aircraft. So I'v

had an association with just about every aviation builder ... 


Q: You also had, I think, about 7 years of experience, with NASA before you came i

the astronaut program, as a NASA research pilot. I guess starting at Lewis? 


A: That's correct. I had met a fellow in the Oklahoma Air National Guard (in fact, m

squadron commander), Stanley Newman, who had earlier in his life had worked as a

engineer at Langley, and he was the one that put the thought in my mind that I shoul

become a NASA research pilot. So even before I finished the University of Oklahom

I was already scouting around, made visits to Langley and Ames and Edwards, whic

were then at that time the premier flight test center of all the NASA centers. But ther

simply were no openings, and there was a long waiting list. 


So I ended up applying and being accepted at Lewis Research Center, which had 

research programs but more catered to testing of systems using aircraft as the vehicles 

test new propulsion systems. We carried aloft ...Ramjets hung under airplanes. We ha

zero-g aircraft facility. In fact we had the second one in the country behind the Air For

at Wright-Patterson, with an old navy AJ2, where we did early testing to fix the config

ration ofpropellant tanks in the Centaur rocket, where the screens would be, for instan

Q: So you were using it for engineering, but later it became a very valuable tool for 

astronauts. 

A: Oh yes. Absolutely. The one we had, just the bomb bay we used for these experi175 
gg

Q: Well, as a NASA research pilot, I'm sure that you had exposure to and knew a 

number ofthe astronauts that were selected in groups before you. Let's see: Neil [A.] 

Armstrong would have been one ofthem ahead of you. 

A: Yeah. Neil, in fact, followed the same path through NASA that I had. Neil was 

about 2 Y:z, 3 years ahead ofme. He started at Lewis Research Center then went to 

NASA's Flight Research Center (now Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards), and 

from there entered the astronaut program. And I just-1 followed literally the same 

route, but about 3 years behind Neil. 

Q: Did you find that made the transition from becoming a research pilot to becoming 

an astronaut any smoother? Was it-was that a particularly good route to go in your 

estimation? 

A: Well, I think in the development-when you're in the portion of a program that's the 

development program, which it was-still was-when I entered Apollo and certainly 

for my early years in shuttle, I think having a background as an experimental test pilot 

of any sort (be it a company pilot or with NASA) helps in the sense of your beinghaving experience to be part of... the design evolution ofthe vehicle. Because that's 

a role that you play. In the case of my NASA experience, except for the Lifting Body 

Program I had some participation in, most of it was for the design (ifyou will) and 

implementation ofthe experiments or use ofthe aircraft, which often required modification .... 

....My experience at Flight Research Center, I'd hoped to fly the X-15, rocket ship; 

and clearly within that office, it was on seniority. And when I left Flight Research Center to join the astronaut program, I was still two people away from getting my tum to 

have flown the X-15. It so happens, I'm glad I left because I would have never made it 

by the time that program ended .... 

Q: Well of course, at the end ofApollo you moved into a shuttle management and flight 

test position. And, is that the sequence that really precluded your flying in Sky lab, the 

fact that you were on one ofthe late crew assignments and then moved into Shuttle? 

A: No. The only choice I had in that time period was to be a-1 was asked by Chris 

ifI would consider being a member of the Apollo-Soyuz crew. And l-in my discussion with Chris (I don't remember the exact words), but basically what I felt I could 

do the Agency better because of my past experience and Edwards experience with... 

some degree with winged reentry vehicles, that I could serve better by skipping that 

and going on to Shuttle. And in fact, ...to support the shuttle management. And so I 

actually... left the Astronaut Office for about 3 Y:z years to work under Aaron Cohen in 

the Orbiter Project Office, to work through that whole evolvement of early design of 

Shuttle. 

176 
worry about them not being overstressed. But certainly for entry, landing, it's a pilot

machine. 

Q: And of course the shuttle introduced us, from an astronaut's point ofview, into 

a totally new regime of having to come back through the atmosphere at hypersonic 

velocities and then to begin to fly it at supersonic and land at subsonic with a lot of n

computer technology involved. 

A: Well that I didn't mention it, but the-you mentioned it just now. Referring to co

puters. That was the other technology jump, I would say, in Shuttle was to get the sy

[synchronized] set or redundant set of four computers to work together and actually 

data comparison to do voting of both the sensors on the ends as well as the computa

tional aspects ofwhat was going on within the computers. But clearly the control sy

tem was the most complex that had been devised to that date because it almost was

was several control systems. 

There was one control system for very early entry, where the air was still very thin 

and you're at a very high angle of attack, and in some axes, more use of the rocket 

engines than aerodynamic surfaces. Then a blending, in an intermediate range, of a 

combination of aerodynamic surfaces and rocket engines were needed. And finally to 

pure aerodynamic stage, which probably didn't truly happen to be [like] a normal air

plane, including the rudder even in the mix, to below Mach 5. So from there on, it w

reasonably conventional as we would think of an airplane control system. 

Q: Of course you mentioned that you were out of the Astronaut Office for 3 years as 

manager. This was the period of time, as I recall, when the approach and landing test

were beginning to take shape under Deke Slayton. And from your vantage point in 

management, I wonder what your perception was of Deke as a manager, [who] previ

ously had been your boss in the astronaut corps, now he's a colleague, manager over 

important part of the Shuttle Program. 

A: Well I frankly was very happy with Deke to volunteer for that role, which is what h

did, because ofhis background. I mean, we had no one, in my mind, that was at Johnso

Space Center at the time that was better suited to take on that role. And I think it was 

reflected in the way the program went. We missed the first free-flight release from the 7

only 2 weeks from a schedule that had been made several years before. 

We completed the program (I forget), it was like 4 or 5 months earlier than we'd 

planned-which is almost unheard of in a test program, certainly something as comp

as the orbiter (even that vintage orbiter) was. And I think that was Deke's leadership 

pulling together both the contingent ofNASA, which involved a lot of integration of 

Kennedy Space Center people and Dryden NASA people, as well as the contractor 

Rockwell in that phase. 

Q: You know, certainly, it would not-to the outside viewer-have been the norm of 

the Shuttle Program, which was experiencing very highly-widely publicized delays 

177 
G. Fullerton] and I, we really, even for the simple kind offlight plan we had to fly, we 

were pushed to be ready with the training to make that next flight. Tum[ ed] it around in 

9 days flat. 

Q: You flew (what?) two of the captive flight tests and three of the free flights? 

A: Yeah. I flew a total offive of the total eight flight program ....Again we cut the captive short. We only did three; originally I think we had five of those planned, but we got 

what we needed in three. And then we flew five free flights. Gordo Fullerton and I flew 

three of the five. 

Q: Right. And Fullerton was your second in command on all of those? 

A: That's correct. 

Q: Did that require you getting back into the Astronaut Office? 

A: Oh yes. No, I'd cycled back into the Astronaut Office probably about a year before 

that first free flight. And in that role, we went back to the more traditional role, even 

before flight, of being a participant in the testing of the real hardware at Palmdale [California] (in that case), involvement with the software development and the discrepancies 

Haise (left) and 

Fullerton have 

breakfast before an 

ALT flight 

(E77-32672). 

178 
people at the NASA and the contractors, where the vehicles were being put together. 

Q: While it's not unusual in an aircraft program, in a space-in the space program, i

was a bit of an anomaly to fly a vehicle manned for the first time. We'd always done 

unmanned test flights. Was this any particular concern or consideration from your po

ofview? 

A: No. Certainly not for the approach and landing test. It would have been very difficult to have devised a scheme, in my view, to have flown that program unmanned. 

guess you could've used an RF link and really had a pilot on a stick on the ground li

they have flown some other programs. But to totally mechanically program it to do 

that, and inherent within the vehicle, would have been very difficult for that part of t

program. There was on the orbital program initially a planned unmanned flight. Agai

it was of great complexity, and handling the myriad ofpotential system problems 

you-would occur to automate that. One of--one of the (call it) "vehicle shortcomings" that showed up in approach and landing tests, things we missed, was in redundancy management. So there was a lot of lessons learned ... that were put into improv

ments, ifyou will, into the orbital version. But even with that, with a crew aboard, ev

though they might not be aboard on the day of launch to fly the vehicle, to be there in 

a systems diagnostic and be able to handle the multitude of things that you could wo

around, just inherently made the success potential of a flight a lot greater. 

Q: Was the astronaut corps, and particularly John W. Young and Robert L. Crippen 

who were scheduled to fly the first orbital mission, were they among the strong propo

nents for doing it with a crew onboard at first flight? 

A: Absolutely. And the Program Office were all-Charlie Duke, at that time, was 

working (I think) for Mr. Donald C. Cheatham. And Charlie set off on and did a 

study-on that manned versus unmanned with the pros and cons. That was reviewed

you know, at least through Bob Thompson here at Johnson and I'm sure followed up 

Headquarters reviews. That kind of sold that as the baseline. 

Q: You had a chance to observe-! don't know how close you were-to the-or how 

much knowledge you have of the Russian system, but on the surface at least, the Rus

sian space shuttle, the Buran, looks almost like a carbon copy ofNASA's orbiter. 

A: Well I'm sure-again I don't know that much personally. In fact, I've never been t

Russia. But you're right; it's clear it's a carbon copy from the-pretty much the mold 

line aspects. Which has great advantages. It's obviously a vehicle configuration, aerodynamically, you know would work. It eases a lot of their cost and time for wind tunn

testing, to some degree, in considering variations and things that you do in simulation

(closed-loop simulations). So it short-cut to a great degree of (call it) homework they 

might have had to do from just the aerodynamics and control-guidance and control 

aspects. 

179 
design reference missions. IfI recall, there was five of them, and one of them had an 

A and B variation. They had some resemblance to what you might consider real missions, but the-but at the same time, some aspects of design reference missions I'll 

say [were] falsified to the degree you'd probably never fly the mission that way. But 

were meant to challenge the design, to make the design margins encompass virtually-a mission set you might fly. And different designs pushed different aspects of the 

design. And so by having this set of them, you kind of covered the spectrum of what 

you might ultimately have to face in flying the vehicle through (what I call) the "real" 

missions. 

Q: Describe for us the way the free-flight test off the back ofthe 747 worked and what 

the vehicle was like to fly for the first time. How did it compare with the simulators and 

so on? 

A: The real flights on the back of747 were unusual in a couple ofrespects, one a real 

surprise. When we first rode on top, you couldn't see the 747, no matter how, you 

know, you'd lean over and try to look out the side window or-it just-you couldn't 

view any part of it. 

Q: Not even a wingtip? 

A: Not even a wingtip. So it was kind of like a magic carpet ride, you know. You're just 

moving along the ground and then you take off. And something below you, you knew it 

was there, but you couldn't see what was taking you aloft. It was also deceptive sitting 

up that high. Things always looked like it was going slower than it was, for your taxiing 

and particularly the first takeoff I really thought Fitz had rotated too early. It didn't look 

like we were going fast enough. 

Q: Fitz-FitzA: Fitz Fulton, who was flyingQ: -who was flying the 747. 

A: Yeah, he was the 747 pilot at that time. And when he rotated, I said [to myself], "We're 

not going fast enough to make it offthe ground." In other aspects, airborne there was not 

too much unusual. The unusual thing we faced, though, that we-I don't think we thought 

of, frankly, late in the program, approaching flight, was to have to do a taxi test backwards from the way you would normally do it in an airplane. 

In an airplane, you have a jet engine or a reciprocating engine, and you normally approach flight test by first of all doing some taxi tests around the ramp and then some runs 

down the runway, progressively getting faster and faster. And finally you reach the day in 

the test program you take off and start doing the flight test portion. Well we had no way of 

doing taxi tests, because the orbiter--our orbiter, Enterprise, had no engines. 

180 
The only other concern that I had, and it was because we did it differently in terms 

aircraft preparation, [was] flight tests. Normally you do full loads on control surface

a flight aerodynamic load sense to integrate the whole control system before you fly 

using weights and things [on the ground]. And here we're going to we didn't have th

luxury. But we did have the advantage of being on top of the 7 4 7, so through very sm

control motion on top of the 747 we were getting real air loads, although not throug

we couldn't do it through full control sweeps. Structurally, the stanchions couldn't h

stood that with the orbiter on top. So we did that testing-part of the testing a little b

different than the normal protocol in an aircraft program. 

Q: Was that a cost factor? 

A: No. I think it was just the ability to productively do that within the facilities that w

had at hand. But as far as the handling, that question you asked: To me it handled, ev

at the first flight, it was very clear it handled better in a piloting sense, a piloting ratin

sense, than we had seen in any simulation-either our mission simulators or the Shu

training aircraft. The term I use is: it was tighter. Crisper, in terms of control inputs 

and selecting a new attitude in any axis, and being able to hold that attitude, it was 

just a better-handling vehicle than we had seen in the simulations, although they wer

close. 

The landing also was a pleasant surprise from the standpoint of ground effect. 

Ground effect is a phenomenon you run into ... when you get within one wingspan 

height of the ground, you start running into air-cushioning effects, which can, depending on the vehicle's shape or configuration, it can be very different. In fact our 

variations we had to consider in the orbiter, looking at the worst-case aerodynamic 

variations: on one side we called it the "vacuum sweep," where ifyou got down low 

would actually tend to suck you into the ground. And if you were at too high a sink r

when that happened, you'd end up with a hard landing. 

The other extreme was one that would "balloon" you. You'd come down and get th

cushioning, and it would actually balloon you back up into the air, which of course w

a different kind ofproblem. Now you were sitting back up in the air with speed bleed

ing off, no engine to compensate, and you're likely to run out of airspeed from a stall 

standpoint or sink rate standpoint before you could effect a second attempt at a landin

It turned out the Shuttle, in my view, was a perfect vehicle ... .If you get set up with 

the right sink rate, coasting along, you can literally almost go hands-off, and it'll sett

on and land itself very nicely. In fact the landing gear people were somewhat chagrin

through most of that test program because we were not landing hard enough to get th

good data for the instrumentation they had on the landing gear struts. Although I solv

their problem on the fifth flight (the fifth landing flight) where I landed on the runway 

and bounced the vehicle, and my second landing was about 5 or 6 foot a second. So t

gave them the data, and they were very happy with that-although I wasn't. 

Q: Would you say it performed more like a heavy bomber-type aircraft or more like a 

high-performance fighter in its reaction to the controls? 

181 
y y 

tive in that speed regime because of their sizing. 

Q: Its one negative feature might be that when the nose gear comes down and you 

touch down, the wings are at what's called a negative angle of attack. Tip downward. 

presume that's because they couldn't make the nose gear longer for weight or whatever 

reason. Is that correct? 

A: It was-it actually was for weight. And it's kind of funny the first time you de-rotate 

or try to put the nose down. For a little bit you almost think you don't have a nose gear 

because it goes down so far. It does present a problem more today-in today's flight 

operation where the vehicle's heavier with actually [having to follow] a ritual on derotating to get the nose gear on. I've never been on an airplane that you actually had to 

worry about a sequence to do that effectively. 

Because if you do de-rotate too fast, too early while you're still at high speed, the effect ofthe negative lift-putting pressure down on the tires-can conceivably blow the 

tires. So you have to go to a point in pitch to hold and wait till you get below a certain 

speed to then continue the de-rotation to effectively get the nose gear on the ground. 

And at the same time, you can't hold it off too long, while it's still too high, or else 

you'll lose the ability to arrest the fall [through]. And ifit-ifyou kept it up too long, 

it would fall through and damage the nose gear from the standpoint of hitting down 

too hard. So you've kind of got to work in between [with] a scheme of getting the nose 

gear on the runway. 

Q: Of course, you didn't have a feature that has since been added to the orbiter; that 


being a drag parachute. 


A: That's correct. Yeah, we had it-we had that on the original vehicle's original design 

in proposals received. And that fell out early when we got into what we considered 

were serious weight problems, and we went through (I recall) at least several weight 

scrubs. And the drag chute was one of the things that got thrown out early in the development program. 

Q: Before Skylab reentered Earth's atmosphere prematurely, you were scheduled to 


command a Shuttle mission (as I recall) that would have rescued Skylab. Now, what 


happened with all of that? 


A: Yes. I was scheduled at that point to fly the third orbital flight. (I was going to command it.) Jack Lousma was my crewmate at the time and, quite appropriately, Jack 

[was] there because he had flown a Sky lab mission. And what happened obviously was 

the-there was a miscalculation, I guess, on the solar effect on our atmosphere, which 

was raised, causing more drag. So ... the Skylab ... [predicted time] for reentering was 

moving to the left in schedule, and our flight schedule (including the first flight) was 

going to the right. So at a point ... , they crossed and that mission went away. And from 

182 
to join Grumman [Grumman Aerospace Corporation] that I just felt it was the right 

time to start my next career. And so I left the program in '79 for that purpose. 

Q: Well you continued to have a close association with NASA and the space program 

then with Grumman and the International Space Station, although it was called Spac

Station Freedom at that time. 


A: Yes. I had several contracts I worked with NASA on (as a contractor from Grum­


man) initially with the Shuttle Processing Contract. I. .. headed the team, part ofthe 

Lockheed initial team, to handle the ground turnaround of shuttles back in '83, [whe

we started on that contract. I then moved in ... about '87 ... I moved to Reston, Vir­


ginia... to head the integration contract that Grumman had won on the Space Station 

Freedom at that time with the NASA contingent that was stationed at Reston. 


The only-the other major program that I was involved with is under the service 

company I headed for Grumman, later Northrop-Grumman. We had a contract here 

Johnson Space Center for the institutional computing systems, personal computers p

chased with a COT software [and] for a while the mainframes, although most ofthem 

departed to Marshall at a point. Most ofthe networking around the Center. And the t

phone system. So that contract umbrella'd the institutional site computing services. 

Q: Would you like to see the country set a next role of going on to Mars, or perhaps 

ing back to the Moon first? 

A: Well that, I certainly would like to see a continuation ofthe things that will provid

us the capability to move outward in technologies, if nothing else in the interim, whi

also is at a fairly low ebb today. 

You know, somewhat philosophically over the years, I've come to think ofthe spa

program as really the means that (very, very long term; it may be thousands ofyears, 

maybe a million years), it is the mechanism to establish the human race elsewhere. W

think we live on a big object called the Earth, but it's really a very small object. It's a 

single spacecraft. There is no--we don't have a backup for Earth that we all live on. 

I couple that with a thought ... you know-we uniquely were given the capability o

all the creatures I know, the Creator uniquely gave us the capability to do this. And it 

just seemed almost divinely ordained that we should use this capability to ultimately 

preserve the race. That's one ofthe things the Creator gave us [the talent]-for that 

consideration. And it's up to us to use-to somehow focus and to use our talents in th

vein, rather than a lot oftalent and resources we use in other veins that consume a lo

resources. 

Q: Well I think on that philosophical note, we'll end it. And I thank you very much fo

coming by. 

A: Thank you. 

183 

shuttlesoft\Vare. 

The difficulty with the control system was only one ofthe issues plaguing shut

development. The main engines and the heat shield tiles were constant sources o

problems. And unlike on earlier first flights with research aircraft, there would be 

incremental envelope expansion or speed build-up with the shuttle. The first laun

would go directly into orbit and there would be no unmanned shuttle launches be

committing to a manned flight. Indeed, the shuttle marked the first time, in both t

185 
U.S. and Soviet space programs, that a 

new manned spacecraft would be flown 

with no unmanned test launches. 

Some four years would pass between 

the initial taxi tests of the shuttle/747 

and the first orbital flight. It was not until 

April12, 1981-ironically, the 20th anniversary of Gagarin 's spaceflight-that 

Columbia roared off its launch pad and 

into orbit. 

Two days later, a crowd numbering 

320,000 gathered at Rogers Dry Lake. 

Columbia sretrorockets fired over the 

Pacific Ocean, and the vehicle began 

a long descent toward the lake bed. This was the first Mach 25 re-entry of a winged 

spacecraft. The shuttle's development effort was being put to the ultimate test of a 

full-envelope re-entry, with no second chance and little margin for error. A great deal of 

tension permeated both engineers and the assembled crowd as the minutes dragged by. 

Columbia announced its arrival overhead with a sudden double sonic boom. Sharpeyed spectators could spot a tiny delta-wing vehicle against the blue desert sky. The 

rapidly descending shuttle was joined by T-38 chase planes. Just above the lakebed 

runway, Columbia slanding gear extended. A chase plane pilot called out the shuttle's 

altitude to the orbiter crew as the large black-and-white vehicle descended toward the 

lakebed. The main wheels touched the dry clay surface, raising a rooster tail of dust. 

The shuttle's nose lowered, until the nose wheels too were rolling on the hard, packed 

surface. Columbia came to a gradual stop out on the vast expanse of Rogers Dry Lake. 

It had been in this sky, and on this lakebed, that work with the X-1 series, the D558-II, the X-2, the X-15, and the lifting bodies had, over three decades, built the 

knowledge base required to bring Columbia slanding to fruition. In that effort, aircraft 

had been damaged and destroyed, pilots and crewmen had been lost. Their memories 

live on in the minds of those who worked alongside them and in the street names of 

Edwards and Dryden. Events in the larger world, as well as social and political change, 

had all influenced the future in ways that could not have been anticipated by pilots and 

View of the 

crowd at the 

lakebed viewing 

site. Crowds 

numbering in the 

tens of thousands 

regularly turned 

out to welcome the 

shuttles home. 

( E 006-0045-3) 

186 
187 
in 1985. Peebles is a Fellow of the British Interplanetary Society and a member of the 

Flight Test Historical Foundation. 

Acknowledgements 

I want to first thank all those individuals who provided the recollections, observations, 

and opinions that appear in this monograph. It is such information that lets the reader 

know what it was like to be there when these events occurred. Thanks is also due to 

Kaitlyn Cutler, who originated the book's design and page layout; to Sarah Merlin for 

copy editing of the manuscript; to Dr. Christian Gelzer and Peter Merlin for fact checking; and to the Dryden photo lab for scanning the photos. 

188 
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Astronautics andAeronautics, 1991-1995: A Chronology. NASA SP-2000-4028, 2000. 

Orloff, Richard W. Apollo by the Numbers: A Statistical Reference. NASA SP-2000-4029, 2000. 

Lewis, Marieke and Swanson, Ryan. Aeronautics andAstronautics: A Chronology, 1996-2000. NASA SP-2009­

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Fries, Sylvia D. NASA Engineers and the Age ofApollo. NASA SP-41 04, 1992. 

Glennan, T. Keith. The Birth ofNASA: The Diary ofT. Keith Glennan. Edited by J.D. Hunley. NASA SP-4105

1993. 

Seamans, Robert C. Aiming at Targets: The Autobiography ofRobert C. Seamans. NASA SP-41 06, 1996. 

Garber, Stephen J., editor. Looking Backward, Looking Forward: Forty Years ofHuman Spac4fight Symposium

NASA SP-2002-4107, 2002. 

Mallick, Donald L. with Peter W. Merlin. The Smell ofKerosene: A Test Pilots Odyssey. NASA SP-41 08, 2003

Iliff, Kenneth W. and Curtis L. Peebles. From Runway to Orbit: Reflections ofa NASA Engineer. NASA SP-20

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Chertok, Boris. Rockets and People, Volume 1. NASA SP-2005-411 0, 2005. 

Chertok, Boris. Rockets and People: Creating a Rocket Industry, Volume II. NASA SP-2006-411 0, 2006. 

Chertok, Boris. Rockets andPeople: Hot Days ofthe Cold War, Volume III NASA SP-2009-411 0, 2009. 

Laufer, Alexander, Todd Post, and Edward Hoffman. Shared Voyage: Learning and Unlearning from Remarkab

Projects. NASA SP-2005-4111, 2005. 

Dawson, Virginia P., and Mark D. Bowles. Realizing the Dream ofFlight: Biographical Essays in Honor ofthe 

Centennial ofFlight, 1903-2003. NASA SP-2005-4112, 2005. 

Mudgway, Douglas J. William H. Pickering: Americas Deep Space Pioneer. NASA SP-2008-4113. 

PROJECT HISTORIES, NASA SP-4200: 

Swenson, Loyd S., Jr., James M. Grimwood, and Charles C. Alexander. This New Ocean: A History ofProject 

Mercury. NASA SP-4201, 1966; reprinted 1999. 

Green, Constance McLaughlin, and Milton Lomask. Vanguard: A History. NASA SP-4202, 1970; rep. ed. Smit

sonian Institution Press, 1971. 

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Bilstein, Roger E. Stages to Saturn: A Technological History ofthe Apollo/Saturn Launch Vehicles. NASA SP4206, 1980 and 1996. 

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Compton, W. David, and Charles D. Benson. Living and Working in Space: A History ofSkylab. NASA SP-4208, 

1983. 

Ezell, Edward Clinton, and Linda Neuman Ezell. The Partnership: A History ofthe Apollo-Soyuz Test Project. 

NASA SP-4209, 1978. 

Hall, R. Cargill. Lunar Impact: A History ofProject Ranger. NASA SP-4210, 1977. 

Newell, Homer E. Beyond the Atmosphere: Early Years ofSpace Science. NASA SP-4211, 1980. 

Ezell, Edward Clinton, and Linda Neuman Ezell. On Mars: Exploration ofthe Red Planet, 1958-1978. NASA 

SP-4212, 1984. 

Pitts, John A. The Human Factor: Biomedicine in the Manned Space Program to 1980. NASA SP-4213, 1985. 

Compton, W. David. Where No Man Has Gone Before: A History ofApollo Lunar Exploration Missions. NASA 

SP-4214, 1989. 

Naugle, John E. First Among Equals: The Selection ofNASA Space Science Experiments. NASA SP-4215, 1991. 

Wallace, Lane E. Airborne Trailblazer: Two Decades with NASA Langleys 737 Flying Laboratory. NASA SP4216, 1994. 

Butrica, Andrew J., ed. Beyond the Ionosphere: Fifty Years ofSatellite Communications. NASA SP-4217, 1997. 

Butrica, Andrew J. To See the Unseen: A History ofPlanetary Radar Astronomy. NASA SP-4218, 1996. 

Mack, Pamela E., ed. From Engineering Science to Big Science: The NACA andNASA Collier Trophy Research 

Project Winners. NASA SP-4219, 1998. 

Reed, R. Dale. Wingless Flight: The Lifting Body Story. NASA SP-4220, 1998. 

Heppenheimer, T. A. The Space Shuttle Decision: NASA s Search for a Reusable Space Vehicle. NASA SP-4221, 

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Morgan, Clay. Shuttle-Mir: The United States and Russia Share Historys Highest Stage. NASA SP-2001-4225

Leary, William M. "We Freeze to Please:" A History ofNASA s Icing Research Tunnel and the Quest for Safety

NASA SP-2002-4226, 2002. 

Mudgway, Douglas J. Uplink-Downlink: A History ofthe Deep Space Network, 1957-1997. NASA SP-2001­

4227. 

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Dawson, Virginia P., and Mark D. Bowles. Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket, 1958

2002. NASA SP-2004-4230. 

Meltzer, Michael. Mission to Jupiter: A History ofthe Galileo Project. NASA SP-2007-4231. 

Heppenheimer, T. A. Facing the Heat Barrier: A History ofHypersonics. NASA SP-2007-4232. 

Tsiao, Sunny. "Read You Loud and Clear!" The Story ofNASA s Spaceflight Tracking andData Network. NAS

SP-2007-4233. 

CENTER HISTORIES, NASA SP-4300: 

Rosenthal, Alfred. Venture into Space: Early Years ofGoddard Space Flight Center. NASA SP-4301, 1985. 

Hartman, Edwin, P. Adventures in Research: A History ofAmes Research Center, 1940-1965. NASA SP-4302

1970. 

Hallion, Richard P. On the Frontier: Flight Research at Dryden, 1946-1981. NASA SP-4303, 1984. 

Muenger, Elizabeth A. Searching the Horizon: A History ofAmes Research Center, 1940-1976. NASA SP-430

1985. 

Hansen, James R. Engineer in Charge: A History ofthe Langley Aeronautical Laboratory, 1917-1958. NASA 

SP-4305, 1987. 

Dawson, Virginia P. Engines andInnovation: Lewis Laboratory andAmerican Propulsion Technology. NASA 

SP-4306, 1991. 

Dethloff, Henry C. "Suddenly Tomorrow Came . .. ":A History ofthe Johnson Space Center, 1957-1990. NAS

SP-4307, 1993. 

193 
Wallace, Harold D., Jr. Wallops Station and the Creation ofan American Space Program. NASA SP-4311, 1997. 

Wallace, Lane E. Dreams, Hopes, Realities. NASA sGoddard Space Flight Center: The First Forty Years. NASA 

SP-4312, 1999. 

NO 

Dunar, 

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SP-4315. 


NASA 

Andrew 

Glenn 

SP-4313, 

E. 

J., 

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P. 

Freedom: 

Waring. Power 

Sixty Years 

to Explore: 

at the NASA 

A History 

Ames 

of

Research 

Marshall 

Center. 

Space Flight 

NASA 

Center, 

SP-2000-4314, 

1960-­

Schultz, James. Crafting Flight: Aircraft Pioneers and the Contributions ofthe Men and Women ofNASA Langley 


Research Center. NASA SP-2003-4316, 2003. 

Bowles, Mark D. Science in Flux: NASA sNuclear Program at Plum Brook Station, 1955-2005. NASA SP-2006­

4317. 


Wallace, Lane E. Flights ofDiscovery: Sixty Years ofFlight Research at Dryden Flight Research Center. NASA 


SP-2006-4318, 2006. Revised version of SP-4309. 


Arrighi, Robert S. Revolutionary Atmosphere: The Story ofthe Altitude Wind Tunnel and the Space Power Cham­

bers. NASA SP-2010-4319. 


GENERAL HISTORIES, NASA SP-4400: 

Corliss, William R. NASA Sounding Rockets, 1958-1968: A Historical Summary. NASA SP-4401, 1971. 


Wells, Helen T., Susan H. Whiteley, and Carrie Karegeannes. Origins ofNASA Names. NASA SP-4402, 1976. 


Anderson, Frank W., Jr. Orders ofMagnitude: A History ofNACA and NASA, 1915-1980. NASA SP-4403, 1981. 


Sloop, John L. Liquid Hydrogen as a Propulsion Fuel, 1945-1959. NASA SP-4404, 1978. 


Roland, Alex. A Spacefaring People: Perspectives on Early Spaceflight. NASA SP-4405, 1985. 


Bilstein, Roger E. Orders ofMagnitude: A History ofthe NA CA andNASA, 1915-1990. NASA SP-4406, 1989. 


Logsdon, John M., ed., with Linda J. Lear, Jannelle Warren Findley, Ray A. Williamson, and Dwayne A. Day. 


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4407,1998. 

Logsdon, John M., ed., with Ray A. Williamson, Roger D. Launius, Russell J. Acker, Stephen J. Garber, and Jo

than L. Friedman. Exploring the Unknown: Selected Documents in the History ofthe US. Civil Space Program

Volume IV, Accessing Space. NASA SP-4407, 1999. 

Logsdon, John M., ed., with Amy Paige Snyder, Roger D. Launius, Stephen J. Garber, and Regan Anne Newpo

Exploring the Unknown: Selected Documents in the History ofthe US. Civil Space Program, Volume V, Explor

the Cosmos. NASA SP-4407, 2001. 

Logsdon, John M., ed., with Stephen J. Garber, Roger D. Launius, and Ray A. Williamson. Exploring the Unknown: Selected Documents in the History ofthe US. Civil Space Program, Volume VI: Space andEarth Scien

NASA SP-2004-4407, 2004. 

Logsdon, John M., ed., with Roger D. Launius. Exploring the Unknown: Selected Documents in the History of

US. Civil Space Program, Volume VII: Human Spaceflight: Projects Mercury, Gemini, andApollo. NASA SP2008-4407, 2008. 

Siddiqi,AsifA., Challenge to Apollo: The Soviet Union and the Space Race, 1945-1974. NASA SP-2000-4408

2000. 

Hansen, James R., ed. The Wind and Beyond: Journey into the History ofAerodynamics in America, Volume 1, 

The Ascent ofthe Airplane. NASA SP-2003-4409, 2003. 

Hansen, James R., ed. The Wind and Beyond: Journey into the History ofAerodynamics in America, Volume 2, 

Reinventing the Airplane. NASA SP-2007-4409, 2007. 

Hogan, Thor. Mars Wars: The Rise and Fall ofthe Space Exploration Initiative. NASA SP-2007-4410, 2007. 

MONOGRAPHS IN AEROSPACE HISTORY (SP-4500 SERIES): 

Launius, Roger D., and Aaron K. Gillette, compilers. Toward a History ofthe Space Shuttle: An Annotated Bibl

ography. Monograph in Aerospace History, No.1, 1992. 

Launius, Roger D., and J. D. Hunley, compilers. An Annotated Bibliography ofthe Apollo Program. Monograp

in Aerospace History No.2, 1994. 

Launius, Roger D. Apollo: A Retrospective Analysis. Monograph in Aerospace History, No.3, 1994. 

Hansen, James R. Enchanted Rendezvous: John C. Houbolt and the Genesis ofthe Lunar-Orbit Rendezvous Co

195 
History, No.7, 1997. 


Logsdon, John M., moderator. Legislative Origins ofthe National Aeronautics and Space Act of1958: Proceed­

ings ofan Oral History Workshop. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 8, 1998. 


Rumerman, Judy A., compiler. U.S. Human Spaceflight, A Record ofAchievement 1961-1998. Monograph in 


Aerospace History, No.9, 1998. 


Portree, David S. F. NASA sOrigins and the Dawn ofthe Space Age. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 10, 


1998. 


Logsdon, John M. Together in Orbit: The Origins ofInternational Cooperation in the Space Station. Monograph 

in Aerospace History, No. 11, 1998. 

Phillips, W. Hewitt. Journey in Aeronautical Research: A Career at NASA Langley Research Center. Monograph 

in Aerospace History, No. 12, 1998. 

Braslow, Albert L. A History ofSuction-Type Laminar-Flow Control with Emphasis on Flight Research. Mono­


graph in Aerospace History, No. 13, 1999. 


Logsdon, John M., moderator. Managing the Moon Program: Lessons LearnedFrom Apollo. Monograph in Aero­


space History, No. 14, 1999. 

Perminov, V. G. The Difficult Road to Mars: A BriefHistory ofMars Exploration in the Soviet Union. Monograph 

in Aerospace History, No. 15, 1999. 

Tucker, Tom. Touchdown: The Development ofPropulsion Controlled Aircraft at NASA Dryden. Monograph in 

Aerospace History, No. 16, 1999. 

Maisel, Martin, Demo J.Giulanetti, and Daniel C. Dugan. The History ofthe XV-15 Tilt Rotor Research Aircraft: 


From Concept to Flight. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 17,2000. NASA SP-2000-4517. 


Jenkins, Dennis R. Hypersonics Before the Shuttle: A Concise History ofthe X-15 Research Airplane. Monograph 

in Aerospace History, No. 18,2000. NASA SP-2000-4518. 

Chambers, Joseph R. Partners in Freedom: Contributions ofthe Langley Research Center to U.S. Military Air­

craft ofthe 1990s. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 19,2000. NASA SP-2000-4519. 


Waltman, Gene L. Black Magic and Gremlins: Analog Flight Simulations at NASA sFlight Research Center. 


Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 20, 2000. NASA SP-2000-4520. 

196 
Siddiqi,AsifA. Deep Space Chronicle: A Chronology ofDeep Space andPlanetary Probes 1958-2000. Mono

graph in Aerospace History, No. 24,2002. NASA SP-2002-4524. 

Merlin, Peter W. Mach 3+: NASA/USAF YF-12 Flight Research, 1969-1979. Monograph in Aerospace History

No. 25,2001. NASA SP-2001-4525. 

Anderson, Seth B. Memoirs ofan Aeronautical Engineer: Flight Tests at Ames Research Center: 1940--1970. 

Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 26, 2002. NASA SP-2002-4526. 

Renstrom, Arthur G. Wilbur and Orville Wright: A Bibliography Commemorating the One-Hundredth Anniversary ofthe First Powered Flight on December 17, 1903. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 27, 2002. NAS

SP-2002-4527. 

No monograph 28. 

Chambers, Joseph R. Concept to Reality: Contributions ofthe NASA Langley Research Center to U.S. Civil Air

craft ofthe 1990s. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 29,2003. SP-2003-4529. 

Peebles, Curtis, editor. The Spoken Word: Recollections ofDryden History, The Early Years. Monograph in Aer

space History, No. 30, 2003. SP-2003-4530. 

Jenkins, Dennis R., Tony Landis, and Jay Miller. American X- Vehicles: An Inventory- X-I to X-50. Monograph 

Aerospace History, No. 31,2003. SP-2003-4531. 

Renstrom, Arthur G. Wilbur and Orville Wright: A Chronology Commemorating the One-Hundredth Anniversa

ofthe First Powered Flight on December 17, 1903. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 32,2003. NASA SP

2003-4532. 

Bowles, Mark D., and RobertS. Arrighi. NASA sNuclear Frontier: The Plum Brook Research Reactor. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 33, 2004. (SP-2004-4533). 

Wallace, Lane and Christian Gelzer. Nose Up: High Angle-of-Attack and Thrust Vectoring Research at NASA 

Dryden, 1979-2001. Monograph in Aerospace History No. 34,2009. NASA SP-2009-4534. 

Matranga, Gene J., C. Wayne Ottinger, Calvin R. Jarvis, and D. Christian Gelzer. Unconventional, Contrary, an

Ugly: The Lunar Landing Research Vehicle. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 35, 2006. NASA SP-2004­

4535. 

McCurdy, Howard E. Low Cost Innovation in Spaceflight: The History ofthe Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous 

(NEAR) Mission. Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 36,2005. NASA SP-2005-4536. 

197 
Phillips, W. Hewitt. Journey Into Space Research: Continuation ofa Career at NASA Langley Research Center. 

Monograph in Aerospace History, No. 40,2005. NASA SP-2005-4540. 

Rumerman, Judy A., Chris Gamble, and Gabriel Okolski, compilers. US. Human Spaceflight: A Record of 

Achievement, 1961-2006. Monograph in Aerospace History No. 41,2007. NASA SP-2007-4541. 

Dick, Steven J.; Garber, Stephen J.; and Odom, Jane H. Research in NASA History. Monograph in Aerospace History No. 43, 2009. NASA SP-2009-4543. 

Merlin, Peter W., Ikhana: Unmanned Aircraft System Western States Fire Missions. Monograph in Aerospace History #44. NASA SP-2009-4544. 

Fisher, Steven C. and Rahman, Shamim A. Remembering the Giants: Apollo Rocket Propulsion Development. 

Monograph in Aerospace History #45. NASA SP-2009-4545. 

ELECTRONIC MEDIA (SP-4600 SERIES) 

Remembering Apollo 11: The 30th Anniversary Data Archive CD-ROM NASA SP-4601, 1999. 

Remembering Apollo 11: The 35th Anniversary Data Archive CD-ROM NASA SP-2004-460 1, 2004. This is an 

update ofthe 1999 edition. 

The Mission Transcript Collection: US. Human Spaceflight Missions from Mercury Redstone 3 to Apollo 17. SP2000-4602, 2001. 


Shuttle-Mir: the United States and Russia Share History s Highest Stage. NASA SP-2001-4603, 2002. 


US. Centennial ofFlight Commission presents Born ofDreams ~Inspired by Freedom. NASA SP-2004-4604, 


2004. 


OfAshes andAtoms: A Documentary on the NASA Plum Brook Reactor Facility. NASA SP-2005-4605. 


Taming Liquid Hydrogen: The Centaur Upper Stage Rocket Interactive CD-ROM NASA SP-2004-4606, 2004. 


Fueling Space Exploration: The History ofNASAs Rocket Engine Test Facility DVD. NASA SP-2005-4607. 


Altitude Wind Tunnel at NASA Glenn Research Center: An Interactive History CD-ROM NASA SP-2008-4608. 


A Tunnel Through Time: The History ofNASAs Altitude Wind Tunnel. NASA SP-2010-4609. 


198 
Dick, Steven J., editor, NASA sFirst 50 Years: Historical Perspectives. NASA SP-2010-4704. 

SOCIETAL IMPACT (SP-4800 SERIES) 

Dick, Steven J., and Roger D. Launius. Societal Impact ofSpaceflight. NASA SP-2007 -4801. 

Dick, Steven J., and Lupisella, Mark L. Cosmos and Culture: Cultural Evolution in a Cosmic Context. NASA 

2009-4802. 

199 

The Spoken Word 

Recollections of Dryden Hist

Beyond the