Exhibit 8

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 1 of 34
From: earl ferrer 

Sent: 

To: 

Monday, October 25, 2010 8:34 PM 

Scott Spear 

Subject: Update 

Attachments: winmail.dat 

Begin forwarded message: 

> From: Carl Ferrer <carl.ferrer@backpage.com> 

> Date: October 25, 2010 12:22:12 PM MST 

> To: Dan Hyer <Dan.Hyer@backpage.com> 

> Subject: Fwd: Update I am giving Scott (i'll call you) 

> 

> fyi 

> 

> Begin forwarded message: 

> 

>> From: Carl Ferrer <carl.ferrer@backpage.com> 

>> Date: October 25, 2010 12:19:42 PM MST 

>> To: Andrew Padilla <andrew.padilla@backpage.com> 

>> Subject: Update I am giving Scott (i'll call you) 

» 

» UPDATE: 

>> 1. Hired 13 Indians 

>> 2. Adult jobs and personals under beta moderaiton 3. Added multiple 

>> efficiencies to queue. 

» 4. Created "Edited ad" queue is built with 15 minute window. 

>> 5. We get a lot of complaints about false positives (staff training 

issue) 

>> 6. Staff requests: 

>> - a check box to delete pies easier (scheduled) 

>> - Show counter with number of ads pending for review in each queue 

>> - Tool to highlight ads in red over 20 minute queue goal and provide 

reporting. 

» - Reports 

>>*number of ads in each queue within selectable time. 

>>*number of ads moderated within a specified time window 

» 

» 

>> Recommendations: 

>> 1. Adult jobs: 

» a. Comments: 

>> - no plan on bringing photo's back. 

>> - illegal content removed is usually money for sex act 

>> - The content is pretty clean after removing pies. 

» 

>> b. Category Standards: 

>> - Keep out escorts 

>> - no sex act for money 

>> - We do NOT delete: porn jobs. They are legal. Example: Wanted 

1 

CONFIDENTIAL 

BP-AZGJ00023761 

BP-PSl-023761 

DOJ-BP-0000006904 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 2 of 34
» Female 

for oral sex porn video for $1000. It's legal cause the camera makes it an art form. 

» 

» c. Actions: 

>> Sex act for money ads are deleted. 

>> Hourly rate escort or body rub ads may be moved to the right category. 

» 

» 2. Personals 

» a. Comments: 

>> - heavy graphic content in men seeking men 

>> - illegal content is usually money for sex act 

>> - sex act pies are common problem. 

>> - Are we going to allow nudity displaying any genitalia? 

» 

» b. Standards: 

>> - no sex act pies 

>> - no hourly rate for service (we are keeping out escorts) 

>> - Do NOT delete ads about companion or massages ads if they do NOT 

>> include a price. 

>> - Sugar daddy and generous gentlemen type ads are OK. 

» 

» c. Actions: 

>> Sex act pies are removed. 

>> Sex act for money ads are deleted. 

>> Hourly rate escort or body rub ads may be moved to the right category. 

» 

>> 3. Adult (escorts, body rubs, etc.) 

» a. Comments: 

>> - Ads are under review too long 

>> - illegal content is usually money for sex act 

>> - sex act pies are common. 

>> - Are we going to allow nudity displaying any genitalia? 

» 

» b. Standards: 

>> - no sex act pies. 

>> - no sex act for money text. 

» 

» c. Actions: 

>> Sex act pies are removed and ad text may stay. 

>> Sex act for money ads are deleted and user is notified. 

» 

» 

» 

2 

CONFIDENTIAL 

BP-AZGJ00023762 

BP-PSl-023762 

DOJ-BP-0000006905 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 3 of 34
Exhibit 9

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 4 of 34
[!Ljbank 

April 2, 2014 

Backpage.com 

Attn: Jed Brunst, CFO 

8776 E. Shea Blvd., Suite 106-617 

Scottsdale, AZ 85260-6629 

Via UPS Return Receipt (or Federal Express) 

Re: Account - 1-535-9507-1165 

Closure Effective: May 1, 2014 

Dear Jed: 

In accordance with your Deposit Account Terms and Conditions, please be advised that we have elected to close your 

Account with us. 

The effective date of closure will not take place until the close of business 30 days from the date of this letter, on May 1, 

2014. Accordingly, unless you choose to close the Account prior to that time, effective at the close of business on May 

1, 2014, the Account will automatically close and be terminated. Once the Account is closed, you will no longer be able 

to conduct any banking business using the Account, including making deposits or initiating wire transfers. Any/all 

outstanding items presented against the Account will be returned as unpaid. 

Effective immediately, any check, withdrawal, or other item presented for payment on the Account against insufficient 

collected or available funds will be returned. Therefore, deposits or transfers must be made prior to items being 

presented for payment. If deposit items consist of checks, please ensure that these deposits are made will in advance 

of any debit transaction to allow sufficient time for checks to be collected, per the assigned availability/float schedules 

related to the Account. 

Unless the Company chooses to close the Account before the closure date, the Account will automatically close and be 

terminated on May 1, 2014. 

The Company may close the Account before May 1, 2104. The collected balance in the Account, after satisfying any 

outstanding service charges I costs or other outstanding obligations, if any, will be available as provided in your Deposit 

Accounts Agreement (the "DDA"). Alternatively, if we do not hear from you before May 1, 2014, U.S. Bank will 

automatically close the Account and mail any remaining balances to the Company in accordance with the DDA. 

U.S. Bank reserves all rights and remedies available to it under the Deposit and Account Terms, U.S. Bank Services 

Terms and Conditions or otherwise. 

If you have any questions concerning this letter, I can be contacted at the address or phone number below: 

Sincerely, 

12t,;f'J r-. t~~ .:f6tm •. T. Pearson, CFA 

V.P., Media & Communications 

U.S. Bank National Association 

1420 Fifth Avenue, 7th Floor 

Seattle, WA 98101 

w. 206-344-4453; f. 206-344-3646 

us bank.com 

CA DOJ AGO 0000600265 

DOJ-BP-0002712519 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 5 of 34
Exhibit 10

(Intentionally Left Blank)

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 6 of 34
Exhibit 11

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 7 of 34
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

 FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 

 _________________ 

United States of America, ) 

 ) 

 Plaintiff, ) CR-18-0422-PHX-SPL 

 ) 

 vs. ) Phoenix, Arizona 

 ) October 5, 2018 

Michael Lacey, ) 10:50 a.m. 

James Larkin, ) 

Scott Spear, ) 

John Brunst, ) 

Andrew Padilla, ) 

Joye Vaught, ) 

 ) 

 Defendants. ) 

 ) 

______________________________) 

 

BEFORE: THE HONORABLE STEVEN P. LOGAN, JUDGE 

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

HEARING ON PENDING MOTIONS - VOLUME II

(Pages 61 through 136, inclusive.) 

Official Court Reporter: 

Linda Schroeder, RDR, CRR 

Sandra Day O'Connor U.S. Courthouse, Suite 312 

401 West Washington Street, Spc. 32 

Phoenix, Arizona 85003-2151 

(602) 322-7249 

Proceedings Reported by Stenographic Court Reporter

Transcript Prepared by Computer-Aided Transcription

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 8 of 34
 102

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

received awards from various law enforcement officials. There

was some communications and some relationships with Backpage

and various other organizations in terms of the National Child

Exploitation Center, NCMEC. They responded to subpoenas when

subpoenas were provided and things like that. That's all -- I

don't think they need us to show them those documents. I mean,

that's something they're very familiar with. They cite them

back to us in a lot of the various pleadings.

Now, what's at issue in this case -- and let's set

aside this First Amendment issue that they have raised because

that's a legal issue that the Court will rule on at some

point -- is a factual issue. Did they know that the vast

majority of these advertisements that went up on this Web site

were for prostitution.

So that is what is clearly articulated in the

90-plus-page superseding indictment. And there's lots of

material that's given as support for that. And I think as

Mr. Piccarreta is going to get to, some of those documents have

already been turned over with respect to the superseding

indictment. And there are others that we were turning over,

and I think today there's a disclosure.

So there's a continuing disclosure from the government

to defense on all these particular issues. But with respect to

Brady or exculpatory, we're unsure what that would look like,

Your Honor.

 1

 2

 3

 4

 5

 6

 7

 8

 9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 9 of 34
Exhibit 12

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 10 of 34
U.S. Department of Justice

United States Attorney

District of Arizona

VIA EMAIL

Mike Piccarreta, Esq.

Piccarreta Davis Keenan Fidel PC

2 East Congress Street, Suite 1000

Tucson, AZ 85701

Re: Your Letter of October 26, 2018

Dear Mike:

We wish to respond to your October 26, 2018 letter. The letter requests disclosure of 

Brady material and appears to be a standard letter that you send prosecutors in other cases with 

a few categories specific to this case. A Brady determination in this case, however, is 

particularly difficult based on the defense theories that the joint defense has advanced in 

pleadings (in this case and others), correspondence, and meetings with the prosecution team. 

As you well know, you and other defense counsel have repeatedly asserted that the 

activities on the Backpage.com website, including the conduct detailed in the Superseding 

Indictment, was somehow immunized by the First Amendment and/or Section 230 of the 

Communications Decency Act (“CDA”). We disagree. First, Section 230 of the CDA does 

not apply, on its face, to a federal prosecution. 47 U.S.C. § 230(e)(1) (“Nothing in this section 

shall be construed to impair the enforcement of ... [any] Federal criminal statute.”). The 

defense has not provided any counter-arguments to this position. Second, the evidence 

demonstrates considerable content creation on the part of the principals and employees of 

Backpage. The following three activities constitute, at a minimum, content creation by 

Backpage:

Moderation: Backpage engaged in the practice of sanitizing ads by editing them—

specifically, removing terms and pictures that are indicative of prostitution and then publishing 

a revised version of the ad. Unfortunately, this also included child sex trafficking victims. 

Aggregation: This was accomplished by identifying prostitutes advertising on other 

similar prostitution websites. Backpage would then post a free ad and contact the pimp or 

prostitute and solicit them to Backpage with the incentive of a free ad for six weeks or with 

similar financial incentives.

Two Renaissance Square Main: (602) 514-7500

40 N. Central Ave., Suite 1800 Main Fax: (602) 514-7693

Phoenix, AZ 85004-4408 Direct Fax: (602) 514-7450

January 10, 2019

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 11 of 34
January 10, 2019

Page 2 of 5

Reciprocal Link and Affiliate Program: This refers to Backpage’s business 

arrangement with a website known as The Erotic Review (TER). Backpage and TER posted

reciprocal ads on each other’s websites. As you know, TER is a website that allows clients of 

prostitutes to provide written reviews of the prostitutes’ various attributes. By inserting TER 

link in particular ads, Backpage was manipulating or creating content. In addition, Backpage 

entered into a financial arrangement with a person known as “Dollar Bill” who earned fees in 

return for arranging for numerous prostitutes and pimps to post ads on Backpage.

In light of the above, we do not share your view that there “is abundant information in 

the government’s possession and/or generated by the government that is favorable and

exculpatory to the defendants.” Quite the opposite. It is noteworthy that neither you nor any 

of the other defense attorneys, in any of the pleadings and correspondence filed to date, have 

made any effort to address the above areas of content creation – all of which are described in 

detail in the Superseding Indictment. Nevertheless, we will attempt to address your Brady

requests.

First, as set forth in the October 29, 2018 response to your letter (“USA response”)

requesting the inadvertently disclosed material, again we do not agree with your general 

assessment that there is an abundance of Brady material. As a reminder, we met in December 

2017 and explained our legal theory, provided incriminating emails exchanged by your client,

and identified witnesses that will be testifying against your client in a pending prosecution. In 

response, you asked that your client be provided immunity (this suggests that you recognized 

he had criminal exposure) but never provided any evidence that contradicts the emails and the 

witnesses expected to testify against your client. Instead, you took the position that your client 

maintains he had a First Amendment right to his activities at Backpage and alternatively, did 

not have the mens rea to commit the specific offenses contained in the indictment. Again, you 

have neither provided us any authority in support of that legal theory nor any counter evidence. 

And, that exchange occurred before both Backpage CEO Carl Ferrer and Backpage Sales and 

Marketing Director Dan Hyer agreed to cooperate and testify against your client and the 

remaining defendants. 

Second, your request involving 2010 statements from Francey Hakes regarding whether 

Craigslist could be held criminally liable for content in their adult section eight years ago is 

not relevant to the Superseding Indictment in this case for several reasons. First, it is important 

to appreciate the distinctions between Craigslist and Backpage and what has occurred since 

2010. Craigslist voluntarily shut down its adult section, presumably recognizing that it faced 

exposure to both criminal and civil liability for facilitating prostitution. Second, and more 

importantly, we are unaware of Craigslist engaging in the same business practices that 

Backpage employed to increase revenue from prostitution ads. For example, Craigslist did not 

have similar moderation practices employed by Backpage (e.g., stripping out words or terms 

indicative of prostitution and then posting the ads (including ads indicative of child sex 

trafficking), etc.). We also have no evidence that Craigslist engaged in the solicitation and 

“aggregation” of prostitution ads from a competing prostitution websites. Furthermore, we 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 12 of 34
January 10, 2019

Page 3 of 5

know of no financial relationship between Craigslist and “Dollar Bill” or someone similarly 

situated. As you know, in an email exchange between your client and another Backpage 

employee, “Dollar Bill” was characterized as a “super affiliate” who received considerable 

fees for arranging for prostitutes and pimps to post ads on Backpage. (See Superseding 

Indictment, ¶¶ 60-62.) In a related email, your client directed that 4200 [prostitution] ads 

posted by Dollar Bill be reinstated. (Id.) Finally, Craigslist did not have a financial relationship 

with the website TER or a similar site. 

Third, we are also unaware of Craigslist engaging in activities designed to circumvent 

conventional banking and credit card processing to disguise the true nature of their adult 

services category. In contrast, Backpage was conspiring with others (e.g., “Dollar Bill”, TER, 

and numerous other obvious pimps to facilitate prostitution. In short, whatever position a DOJ 

representative might have taken 10 years ago regarding the mens rea required by a website 

operator has little relevance to this prosecution. Lastly, the statement that you attribute to Ms. 

Hakes also predated the successful prosecutions of myRedBook.com, Rentboy.com, 

escorts.com and Ross William Ulbricht (the “Silk Road” prosecution). It is noteworthy 

that the defense, here, has made no meaningful attempt to distinguish the successful 

prosecutions of these websites from the activities engaged in by Backpage. 

Next, you cite to a statement in the Congressional record that is relevant to concerns 

about legislation proposed to combat sex trafficking on prostitution websites similar to 

Backpage by State and local prosecutors. This is in the context of the application of the CDA. 

Yet this federal prosecution is exempted from the restrictions of the CDA. That was the point 

of the legislation referenced in the Congressional record—to allow states to prosecute websites 

like Backpage in the same manner a federal prosecution can be achieved. But again, the 

Backpage employees that are cooperating acknowledge that the Backpage defendants knew 

for years that they were facilitating prostitution, and the internal emails and public statements 

of Lacey and Larkin bear this out. Even James C. Grant, representing Backpage in the Arizona 

federal grand jury litigation, conceded that if the website knew “through participation in a 

venture, you’re conspiring with somebody, you know they posted an ad, you know the person 

involved is underage [of course, the illegality of prostitution is not limited to underage sex

trafficking victims] that’s a prosecutable crime...” (GJ RT 2/22/17, p. 38) Here, because of 

the aggregation, affiliation and reciprocal link ventures and other conduct summarized above,

Backpage knew that every ad had the potential for facilitating prostitution services, including 

child sex trafficking.

1

Fourth, you cite a nearly forty-year old, out-of-circuit civil case, that stands for the 

proposition that a federal court can enjoin a state court prosecution if it was brought for 

 

1 As with our prior correspondence, the discussion in this letter is not meant to be an 

exhaustive statement of the reasons why the apparent defenses referenced by the joint defense 

team to date lack merit, particularly in view of the limited amount of information known so 

far about Defendants’ theories and defenses.

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 13 of 34
January 10, 2019

Page 4 of 5

improper purposes. Fitzgerald v. Peek, 636 F.2d 943, 945 (5th Cir.1981) (“conduct allegedly 

retaliated against or sought to be deterred is constitutionally protected and that the state's 

bringing of the criminal prosecution is motivated at least in part by a purpose to retaliate 

against or deter that conduct, and the state fails to show that it would have decided to prosecute 

even had the impermissible purpose not been considered.”). This case has no relevance to the 

facts here and it does not even stand for the proposition that you are apparently citing it for, 

namely a discovery requirement. Although your request is based on mere speculation you 

are—in a manner of speaking—barking up the wrong tree. Categorically no such evidence 

exists. We are aware that Larkin and Lacey have publicly decried the late Senator John 

McCain and his wife Cindy as the architects of the federal Backpage prosecution, arguing that 

this case is politically motivated. The decision to investigate Backpage that resulted in the 

Superseding Indictment was made by the United States Attorney’s Office in the District of 

Arizona, the DOJ Criminal Division, and no one else. The same analysis applies to your 

overly-broad request contained in paragraph 5. 

Fifth, you are requesting all documents and commendations from law enforcement to 

Backpage relating to Backpage’s cooperation in any criminal investigation. (Your October 26 

letter, ¶¶ 6,7,11.) This request is unclear for several reasons. If you are asking for all 

subpoenas issued to Backpage in the course of state and federal investigations where Backpage

complied with subpoenas, we do not share the view (nor is there any legal support) that this 

would be Brady material. Backpage was merely complying with a court order. Moreover, 

any documents or testimony at a trial or a hearing provided by Backpage in response to a 

subpoena would be in furtherance of court-ordered compliance. This isn’t exculpatory—it’s

just avoiding contempt. 

You also seek commendations Backpage received from law enforcement. These aren’t

Brady material either. Backpage was engaged in a veneer of cooperation with law 

enforcement. They hid their true business model that included moderation, aggregation, and 

affiliated programs. Moreover, after banks no longer would do business with Backpage they 

concealed paymentsfrom pimps posting prostitution ads and concealed Backpage as the payee, 

etc. We expect that at trial former Backpage employees (including but not limited to Ferrer 

and Hyer) will testify that Backpage’s business model was concealed from law enforcement

in variety of ways. We also expect at trial that law enforcement, including those that provided

commendations to Backpage, will testify that had they known of Backpage’s actual business 

practices (e.g., stripping out words and posting the ads, inserting the link to TER, etc.) and

financial relationships (e.g., affiliated relationships with “Dollar Bill” and others, etc.) they 

would not have provided the commendations. In sum, we do not view commendations from 

law enforcement as Brady material.

Sixth, without providing any authority, you demand various communications between 

the prosecution team and attorneys representing cooperators, various law enforcement 

agencies, civil attorneys representing victims, NCMEC etc. (Your October 26 letter, ¶¶ 6-11) 

Without more, it is difficult to respond to such a request. Although you have provided some 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 14 of 34
January 10, 2019

Page 5 of 5

authority for other requests (which we do not concede are necessarily on point), you provide 

no authority for this overbroad request. In short, this appears to be a wish list, based on 

speculation, in an effort to engage in a fishing expedition.

Seventh, you request all documents to and from Backpage and NCMEC relating to

possible unlawful activity involving underage individuals. (Your October 26 letter, ¶ 10.) )It

is unclear what you mean by “documents” nor do you articulate why you believe these are 

exculpatory. In any event, if you are asking for emails between Backpage and NCMEC, those 

are readily available based on emails we received via search warrants and subpoenas. They 

are also contained in the PSI Appendix, which is available on the U.S. Senate website. Any 

other documents we received from NCMEC has been provided or will be provided based on 

the scheduling order. 

Eight, paragraph 12 of your October 26 letter requests internal Justice Department

memoranda “relating the understanding of the applicable law government Backpage.” Again, 

you provide no authority for this request. And, case law makes clear that material 

encompassing only an attorney’s mental impressions or legal theories does not constitute 

Brady. See, e.g., Morris v. Ylst, 447 F.3d 735, 742 (9th Cir. 2006). “Extending the Brady rule 

to opinion work product would greatly impair the government’s ability to prepare for trials.” 

Id. Indeed, “if opinion work product were accessible by opposing counsel ‘much of what is 

now put down in writing would remain unwritten.’” Williamson v. Moore, 221 F.3d 1177, 

1182 (11th Cir. 2000) (quoting Hickman v. Taylor, 329 U.S. 495, 511 (1947)). 

Ninth and last, paragraphs 4-31 make various general Brady requests, non-specific to 

this case, citing some authority (mainly from the 1980s). We will examine your specific 

requests and, to the extent we have information covered by the requests and supported by the 

cases you cite, we will make it available. Finally, in the event you are unsatisfied with our 

responses to your October 23 and 26 letters and file a discovery motion, please include our 

responses to both letters as attachments so the court has an understanding of our efforts to be 

responsive to your various requests.

Sincerely,

ELIZABETH A. STRANGE

First Assistant U.S. Attorney

District of Arizona

s/ Kevin Rapp

KEVIN M. RAPP

Assistant U.S. Attorney

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 15 of 34
Exhibit 13

(Filed Under Seal)

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 16 of 34
Exhibit 14

(Filed Under Seal)

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 17 of 34
Exhibit 15

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 18 of 34
From: Stone, Andrew (USAAZ)

To: Ariel A. Neuman; Rapp, Kevin (USAAZ); Kozinets, Peter (USAAZ); Perlmeter, Margaret (USAAZ); Kucera, John

(USACAC); Jones, Reginald (CRM)

Cc: Tom Bienert; Toni Thomas; Paul Cambria; Erin McCampbell Paris; Grant, James; Corn-Revere, Bob; Bruce Feder;

Feder Law; Gary S. Lincenberg; Gopi K. Panchapakesan; David Eisenberg; Joy Bertrand; Whitney Bernstein

Subject: RE: US v. Lacey et al., Grand Jury Material

Date: Monday, September 9, 2019 4:50:15 PM

Ariel,

The government is not inclined to file such a motion.

Thanks,

Andy

Andrew C. Stone

Assistant U.S. Attorney

District of Arizona

(602) 514-7635

andrew.stone@usdoj.gov

From: Ariel A. Neuman <aneuman@birdmarella.com>

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2019 3:51 PM

To: Rapp, Kevin (USAAZ) <KRapp@usa.doj.gov>; Kozinets, Peter (USAAZ) <PKozinets@usa.doj.gov>;

Perlmeter, Margaret (USAAZ) <MPerlmeter@usa.doj.gov>; Stone, Andrew (USAAZ)

<AStone1@usa.doj.gov>; Kucera, John (USACAC) <jkucera@usa.doj.gov>; Jones, Reginald (CRM)

<Reginald.Jones@CRM.USDOJ.GOV>

Cc: Tom Bienert <tbienert@bienertkatzman.com>; Toni Thomas <tthomas@bienertkatzman.com>;

Paul Cambria <pcambria@lglaw.com>; Erin McCampbell Paris <emccampbell@lglaw.com>; Grant,

James <jimgrant@dwt.com>; Corn-Revere, Bob <bobcornrevere@dwt.com>; Bruce Feder

<bf@federlawpa.com>; Feder Law <fl@federlawpa.com>; Gary S. Lincenberg

<glincenberg@birdmarella.com>; Gopi K. Panchapakesan <gpanchapakesan@birdmarella.com>;

David Eisenberg <david@deisenbergplc.com>; Joy Bertrand <joy.bertrand@gmail.com>; Whitney

Bernstein <wbernstein@bienertkatzman.com>

Subject: US v. Lacey et al., Grand Jury Material

Kevin/Peter/Andy/Reggie:

I write to request that the government produce the grand jury transcripts underlying the indictment

and superseding indictment in this case.  I am requesting the transcript of both the government’s

instructions to the grand jury, as well as the testimony of all witnesses who appeared before the

grand jury.  Now that the case has been charged, Jencks Act material and preliminary witness and

exhibit lists have been disclosed, and the case is set for trial, the need for grand jury secrecy has

passed.  Cf. In re Special Grand Jury (for Anchorage, Alaska), 674 F.2d 778, 781–82 (9th Cir. 1982)

(listing the factors which justify grand jury secrecy, none of which apply in this matter at this time)

(citing Douglas Oil Co. v. Petrol Stops Northwest, 441 U.S. 211, 218 (1979)).  On the other hand, the

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 19 of 34
defendants in this case must examine the grand jury transcript with sufficient time to bring

substantive motions by the Court deadline of October 18, 2019.  Specifically, the government’s

statements in court and in its briefs suggest that the grand jury may not have been properly

instructed as to the standard necessary to indict the defendants on the Travel Act counts, and the

related conspiracy count.  Further, the recently-disclosed Jencks Act material for Carl Ferrer, when

compared to certain allegations in the indictment, together with a careful review of underlying

documents as compared to the summaries of those documents contained in the indictment, suggest

that the grand jury may have been misled as to the nature of certain evidence.  Each of these

constitutes a particularized need for the requested grand jury material, as contemplated by

numerous Supreme Court and 9th Circuit decisions.  If either is correct, it may warrant dismissal of

the indictment.

Counsel for another defendant in this case previously requested the grand jury instructions, and you

refused.  Please advise whether you will reconsider your position given the current posture of the

case, and will also produce the transcripts of testimony before the grand jury.

I recognize that a motion to the Court by the government would be required for such disclosure, and

request that the government confirm via return email by no later than September 9, 2019, that it

will file such a motion (indicating that defendants do not oppose) by no later than September 13,

2019.  If I do not hear from you or you do not agree, I will raise this issue with the Court.

If you would like to discuss this request, please contact me.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Ariel A. Neuman

Principal

O: 310.201.2100                                       

F: 310.201.2110

E: aneuman@birdmarella.com

vCard | Bio | LinkedIn

Bird, Marella, Boxer, Wolpert, Nessim,

Drooks, Lincenberg & Rhow, P.C.

1875 Century Park East, 23rd Floor

Los Angeles, California 90067-2561

www.BirdMarella.com

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 20 of 34
Exhibit 16

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 21 of 34
From: 

Sent: 

To: 

Cc: 

Subject: 

All: 

Andrew Padilla [andrew.padilla@backpage.com] on behalf of Andrew Padilla 

Saturday, October 16, 2010 9:05 PM 

Adam Padilla; Allen Romero; Amanda Thatcher; Angel Lampi; Angela Boyd; Anna Fraser; 

Billie Miles; Cathleen Wingfield; Cody Gautier; Dawn Lee; Devyn Braga; Donavon Stewart; 

Ian Leal; James Hammer; Jana Seiters; Jason Statom; Jeff Lyons; Jennifer Phipps; Jessica 

Shelton; Joye Vaught; Justin Dew; Kolter Whelan; Levi Yockey; Luis Garcia; Maria Rhoad; 

Martina Gutierrez; Matthew Watson; Michael Enriquez; Michael Sanchez; Nathan Yockey; 

Nick Vann; Ray Ronan; Roger Williams; Sara Colombo; Sean Meyer; Stefano Ciaravella; 

Tara Kibbey; Tranica Reilly; Zeke Finlay 

Carl Ferrer; Dan Hyer 

New Moderation Standards 

Perhaps indefinitely, and certainly over the next four days, we need to intensify our efforts in cleaning Escorts, Body 

Rubs, Male Escorts, TS Escorts and Dom & Fetish. 

This intensification will come in the form of extra staff and overtime but most importantly in stricter standards for 

language and images in ads. 

I'd like to still avoid Deleting ads when possible, but if an ad makes a clear reference to sex for money or an image 

displays a sex act,, don't hesitate deleting it. These are not the types of ads we want on our site at all. 

In the case of lesser violations, editing should be sufficient. We're still allowing phrases with nuance but if something 

strikes you as crude or obvious, remove the phrase. We're still allowing HBO type nudity but if an image makes you 

think twice, remove the image. There is zero tolerance for closeups of exposed genitalia. 

To make your efforts count, you'll want to lock any ad you have to edit. You can do this by Editing the Ad in Object 

Editor. In the Ad Object, scroll down to the Violation Flag field and check the Violated Terms of Use box. Then update 

the ad object. This prevents a user from making any future edits to that specific ad. 

If you find yourself locking ads for any user more than twice, lock their entire account. To do this, first View their 

account. 

HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL BP-PSl-022177 

BP-AZGJ00022177 

DOJ-BP-0000005332 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 22 of 34
Exhibit 17

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 23 of 34
From: John Shehan 

Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 5:30 PM 

To: Ernie Allen 

Cc: Michelle Collins; Staca Urie; Meghan Perkins; Kristen D. Anderson; John Rabun; Linda Krieg; Lindsey 

Olson 

Subject: Today's meeting with Don Moon/Backpage 

Ernie, 

Don Moon from Backpage met with Staca Urie, Kristen Anderson, Meghan Perkins and I this 

morning as a followup to his June 3rd meeting. Carl Ferrer, Backpage Abuse, joined us via 

conference call. 

The meeting today lasted about an hour and was completely focused on Carl providing us 

with an update from their end. There was no mention of the recent Villiage Voice/Ashton 

Kutcher media attention. At this meeting there was little to no interaction with Don Moon. 

His only comments were that he has previously met with WA Attorney General Rob 

McKenna and as a result now the Seattle Mayor and Chief of Police have requested a 

meeting. He will be meeting with them soon. 

Don and Carl are presenting two blocks at the Dallas Crimes Against Children Conference. 

Carl will stay at the conference the entire week and Don will leave after the presentations. 

Below are the updates provided by Carl: 

In the month of June, Backpage submitted 280 reports to the NCMEC CyberTipline. Carl 

indicated 1/3 of those reports are from users and the other 2/3 from their moderators. 

Backpage has been tracking the subpoena requests. In June they received 92 total 

subpoenas, of which 19 were related to child sexual exploitation. S were a direct result of 

follow-up from CyberTipline leads send to law enforcement. 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000670 

DOJ-BP-0004570684 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 24 of 34
Carl met with Sgt. Byron Fasset last week. Bryon brought "9 or 10" people from his team 

to meet with Carl. They met for two hours and Backpage was given the following feedback: 

1) Too many ads are being submitted to the CyberTipline involving people over 18 years of 

age 

2) Backpage needs to articulate in the CyberTipline reports as to why they think the person 

in the ad is under 18 

3) Moderator names should be identified in the CyberTipline report 

4) Time and date (with timezone) should be included in the report 

5) Backpage should run PSA's on their site that warn about the penalties for statutory rape 

and/or that encourage reporting of child victims 

6) Deploy an image hashing tool for the images posted in the ads 

7) Develop a phone# lookup tool for LEA (similar to what craigslist had built) 

8) Backpage legal compliance needs to be available 24/7 

Carl indicated that they are reviewing all of the suggestions that were provided by Byron 

(above). Backpage had a converstation with Microsoft regarding PhotoDNA but Carl 

indicated they are planning to build their own hashing tool and are not going to use 

PhotoDNA. Backpage has created a law enforcement compliance guide and will be giving it 

to NCMEC later this week after making some final edits. They are also planning to release 

a safety section that will appear as a link at the bottom of each page later this month. The 

content was prepared by SSP Blue and will include references to NCMEC and Polaris 

Project. 

Carl also provided some feedback related to the questions posed at the last meeting about 

some of the CyberTipline reports they have submitted. At this time Backpage is not 

proactively doing any data mining of their system after they receive a report directly from a 

user or the public indicating the posting is for a child or their own child. They are not 

searching for additional postings made with the poster's email address, phone, or IP to 

supplement their reporting to CyberTipline. They are only reporting the individual ad that 

was reported to them as being related to a minor. Carl also clarified the process Backpage 

uses after reporting an ad to CyberTipline to determine whether the ad should still be 

posted on Backpage or ghosted instead. If the Backpage receives a report from the public 

or one of their users about an ad involving a minor and the moderator feels it is valid, they 

ghost the ad and remove it from the list of ads available in that area. They then report it 

to CyberTipline and archive all of the data waiting for a subpoena from law enforcement. If 

they are not confident the ad really involves a minor they allow it to be posted on the list. 

It is the same moderator judgment call for ads located by the moderators during their 

review. If the picture appears to be someone under the age of 25 they ghost the ad, do 

not post it, and report it to CyberTipline. If they aren't sure the picture is for someone 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000671 

DOJ-BP-0004570685 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 25 of 34
under the age of 25 they allow it to be posted and report it to CyberTipline. 

Since the Dallas conference is in August we discussed holding off on having another 

meeting until September 

Please let me know if you have any questions. 

John 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000672 

DOJ-BP-0004570686 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 26 of 34
Exhibit 18

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 27 of 34
From: Staca Urie 

Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 5:03 PM 

To: Ernie Allen 

Cc: Michelle Collins; John Shehan; Meghan Perkins; Kristen D. Anderson; John Rabun; Linda Krieg; 

Lindsey Olson 

Subject: Meeting with Don Moon/Backpage 

Ernie, 

Don Moon from Backpage met with Michelle Collins, John Shehan, Meghan Perkins and I 

yesterday as a follow up to the July 11th meeting. We did not meet in August due to the 

Dallas Conference. Carl Ferrer, Backpage Abuse, joined us via conference call. 

The meeting lasted just over an hour and as in the past the focus was primarily on updates 

provided by Carl related to reporting to CyberTipline and other efforts they are making. Don 

did provide a short update regarding the letter received from the Attorney Generals. He let us 

know they have hired Jeff Modisett, previous Indiana Attorney General, who has represented 

Yahoo and other companies who have faced similar issues. He also explained it is likely they 

will respond to the letter by the end of the month. Don indicated at this point 

Backpage/Village Voice does not intend to provide a point-by-point response to all of the 

questions that appeared in the letter. Given our previous meetings with Backpage over the 

past couple months, I feel it is unlikely their system is able to provide the numbers requested 

by the Attorney Generals going back to September 2010. Don mentioned multiple times he 

feels the end result of all of this would be standards and that is what they will be 

recommending in their response, likely highlighting that NCMEC is in the best position to 

provide those standards. 

Carl then provided his operational update over the phone. They are summarized below. 

In August, there were 265 reports made to CyberTipline which was a slight decrease from 

the 280 reported in July. He indicated they are receiving more reports directly from 

users/public regarding content and he feels it is as a result of the increase in awareness. He 

feels the volume of reports made to the CyberTipline is going to continue to increase. Carl 

was happy to report the problem they were having with the time zones that appeared in 

CyberTipline reports has been fixed. This was a very large problem for law enforcement 

because it effected the information located as a result of a subpoena because the time zones 

were not accurately reported. 

In terms of feedback, Carl feels that about lZ:2 of the law enforcement they speak with love 

the reports they are receiving from Backpage through the CyberTipline and the other l.Z2 feel 

they are getting too many reports. When asked how many subpoenas they receive were a 

result of a CyberTipline report and how many were a result of an independently initiated 

investigations, Carl was unsure. He felt he would be able to get that information but didn't 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000668 

DOJ-BP-0004570682 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 28 of 34
know it off hand. He felt that off the top of his head that they receive more subpoenas from 

the FBI than local/state law enforcement. The "public awareness" also seems to be 

increasing the number of subpoenas Backpage is receiving. Carl said there was an increase 

from July to August but he didn't have the exact numbers handy. Backpage has incorporated 

the feedback provided by NCMEC and created an updated guide for law enforcement. Carl 

emailed the guide after the meeting so that it can be distributed to law enforcement with 

CyberTipline reports or when we receive questions. The guide is attached. 

The user safety section has launched on Backpage after receiving feedback from NCMEC 

and Polaris. Even though it is now "live" Carl encouraged any input or suggestions we might 

have for continued improvement. Carl is still unsure how they are going to address the need 

for 24 hour response to emergent requests. They are considering an answering service that 

will call someone when those requests come in after-hours. Carl felt the Dallas Conference 

was very helpful. Not only from the perspective of being able to give a presentation and 

provide information to law enforcement, but through his attending other sessions. He 

specifically mentioned the value he found in attending sessions presented by Facebook and 

another about undercover investigations on CraigsList. He noticed how law enforcement uses 

Craigslist for undercover stings because Craigslist will leave the ads posted, whereas 

Backpage removes them. Carl has had several instances where an ad was posted and 

removed several times due to a violation of their terms of service (specifically inappropriate 

text implying a child was involved) and then found out they were law enforcement sting ads. 

They have been reminding law enforcement of the need to comply with terms of service even 

when posting ads in an undercover capacity. 

According to Carl, although Facebook is very excited about the potential uses for PhotoDNA 

they are not sure whether it will work for Backpage's purposes. They are working on 

creating a system in-house Carl referred to as end gram analysis. This would look at portions 

of an image, store information and then be capable of looking for similar images. They have 

purchased new servers to assist with this more data intensive analysis. We provided feedback 

about a series of CyberTipline reports that were made that appeared unrelated however the 

reports included references by the moderator that the multiple ads were posted using the same 

credit card. Carl was very happy this proved helpful and indicated they are continuing to 

look at additional ways to data mine and link ads for reporting purposes. 

Backpage has continued their work with the DNA Foundation. Carl has asked them to 

create a PR campaign which the adult industry would accept and use, that warns individuals 

of the consequences of engaging in sex with children. The DNA Foundation has sent Carl a 

rough copy of their suggestions for this campaign. Carl and Don disagreed over who should 

create this campaign. Carl feels it should be outsourced to a 3rd party like the DNA 

Foundation and Don felt it should be created in-house as a model program to demonstrate 

actions taken by Backpage. Regardless, both Don and Carl felt this campaign needs to be in 

place by the end of this year. 

Finally, Carl discussed the fact that they are looking into systems that would verify users with 

driver's license information to determine identity. It is a product of LexisNexis and Carl 

indicated it would be very expensive for them to implement. At this point they are exploring 

other possibilities and also considering using registered sex offender data as a source. 

We asked Carl about the criteria being used to escalate certain reports they make to an urgent 

status. He explained that their focus with urgent reports was whether they were "rescue 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000669 

DOJ-BP-0004570683 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 29 of 34
oriented", imminent threats, or situations in which a user provided information that appeared 

authentic. Meghan provided a few examples of reports made that met this criteria but were 

not escalated, for example a user reported a child was being held hostage. Carl was very 

interested in reviewing these examples and happy to use them as training tools for improved 

reporting. 

We did not set a date for the next meeting at this time. 

Please let me know if you have any questions. 

Staca Urie 

Director, Case Analysis Division 

National Center for Missing & Exploited Children 

(703) 837-6446 

surie@ncmec org 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000670 

DOJ-BP-0004570684 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 30 of 34
Exhibit 19

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 31 of 34
From: 

To: 

Cc: 

Subject: 

Date: 

Ernie, 

Staca Urie 

Ernie Allen 

Michelle Collins; John Shehan ; Meghan Perkins; John Rabun ; Linda Krieg ; Lindsey Olson 

Meeting with Don Moon/Backpage 

Thursday, October 13, 20111:13:27 PM 

Yesterday Don Moon from Backpage met with Michelle Collins, John Shehan and I as a follow up to 

the September gth meeting. Carl Ferrer, Backpage Abuse, joined us via conference call. 

The meeting lasted about an hour with the majority of the information being shared by Carl over 

the phone. Don shared that Jim Larkin was in town as well because later in the day they were 

meeting with Goddard Claussen Public Affairs who specialize in issue/advocacy advertising to 

discuss an ad/PSA campaign. Don feels it would be very helpful to advertise the type and length of 

sentences people receive for prostituting children. 

The operational update from Carl is summarized below: 

Carl shared they are hoping to have PSA ads running within Backpage by the end of this year. The 

intent is to make users aware of the consequences for victimizing children through prostitution and 

to encourage reporting to CyberTipline. The ads may appear organically as users are searching, 

they could be hard linked in specific locations within the adult and personals areas, or they may 

appear within the ads themselves. Carl indicated traffic to the site and postings have seen a slight 

drop in September. As a result the number of reports made to CyberTipline dropped slightly as 

well. In September Carl indicated 187 CyberTipline reports were made and 17 were escalated as 

urgent. He expects the overall number of reports to go back to the 200 level in October. He has 

asked the moderators to focus on WA State and shared that they have finally received their first 

subpoena from King County, WA and they turned it around in an hour. 

In September, Backpage received 136 subpoenas which is an all time monthly high but 47 of them 

were from one officer. Of the 136 subpoenas, 16 specifically mentioned the case involved a 

possible minor and 1 specifically mentioned it was in response to a CyberTipline report. We 

discussed ways to improve the communication received via subpoenas to better track which are 

connected to CyberTipline reports. Backpage is considering adding language to their guide for Law 

Enforcement asking them to include the CyberTipline report number in the subpoena. Carl asked 

for any other Law Enforcement guides that include this type of language and John indicated he 

would share the Yahoo Guide with him. We also indicated we could review the template language 

appearing in Backpage CyberTipline reports to see if it could be adapted to include a reference to 

including CyberTipline report numbers with subpoenas. Carl also shared they have had to appear 

as witnesses in 2 recent court cases. One was a grand jury hearing in NY for a case involving a 

minor victim. The second was a criminal trial in GA in which the defendant was convicted of 3 

counts of prostitution of a minor. 

The Backpage User Safety section has been released on their site. It is located at: 

http,Uwashingtondc backpage com/online/classifieds/UserSafety Carl asked for any feedback or 

input for improvement to this section. The User Safety section covers a multitude of topics to 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000666 

DOJ-BP-0004570680 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 32 of 34
include safety concerns and tips for placing and responding to ads, various scams and frauds being 

perpetrated on classified sites, and finally human trafficking/child exploitation. Users are referred 

to the CyberTipline and National Human Trafficking Resource Center to report any suspected 

human trafficking or child exploitation. There are also links to Missingkids.com and 

Polarisproject.org. Brad Myles at Polaris has been in communication with Backpage and reviewed 

the User Safety section. At his request they will be adding a pop up that appears as you are 

searching adult content areas to make reports of possible child exploitation. Carl indicated Brad 

will be providing content for this pop up. 

Backpage is still working on developing their own image matching tool based on end gram analysis. 

At this point they are not using PhotoDNA but they will continue discussions with Microsoft and 

will keep it as an option for the future. They have spent over $100,000 to increase their storage 

capacity so they are able to main the images for a longer period of time. The goal is to make sure 

they can provide the images to law enforcement in response to a subpoena. Carl shared they are 

currently testing an age verification solution they have purchased from Aristotle. It is 99 cents for 

each query. As a test they are using it to verify new users attempting to make a posting in WA. 

They turned it on Friday and had 40 new users over the weekend. 36 failed the verification process 

and 4 passed. Carl believes the high failure rate is because of the personal information (name, date 

of birth, and zip code) that is requested in order to be verified. He does not feel the users are 

comfortable providing this information and fear it is a scam. As a result, they are not providing 

their real information. In the future the goal is to prevent anyone that fails from being able to 

make postings. Backpage will be maintaining the submitted information for the verification 

process to provide it to law enforcement with a subpoena. However, they will not be saving the ad 

the individual was attempting to post but failed to do so as a result of failing the verification 

process. 

Carl asked how the CyberTipline handles reports involving an international jurisdiction and was 

very happy to hear there are 49 International VPNs with law enforcement abroad. Carl also 

wanted to know whether CyberTipline would be interested in reaching out to other classified sites 

in an attempt to register them and encourage reporting. Carl and Don felt there are many other 

sites out there that are allowing pornographic images, nudity, and descriptive text that is now no 

longer permitted on Backpage. Don indicated they would like to share the company's contact 

information with CyberTipline but absolutely did not want anyone knowing the contact 

information came from Backpage. Michelle and John said that would not be a problem and 

explained the work of the ESP team proactively reaching out to electronic service providers. 

Already since the meeting Carl shared information regarding the site Reddit. Coincidentally, Reddit 

reached out to the CyberTipline at the same time yesterday to setup access to report. 

Lastly, we shared the information about the creation of the Child Sex Trafficking Team at NCMEC. 

While there would be no change from their perspective we wanted them to know how their 

reports would be handled internally by this new hybrid team. 

We did not set a date for the next meeting at this time. 

Please let me know if you have any questions. 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000667 

DOJ-BP-0004570681 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 33 of 34
Staca Urie 

Director, Case Analysis Division 

National Center for M issing & Exploited Children 

(703) 837-6446 

surle@ncmec.oriI 

CONFIDENTIAL MATERIALS PRODUCED PURSUANT 

TO 05-16-17 LETTER REQUEST FROM U.S. DOJ 

NCMEC 000668 

DOJ-BP-0004570682 

Case 2:18-cr-00422-DJH Document 782-3 Filed 10/18/19 Page 34 of 34