1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA

United States of America, )

 )

Plaintiff, )

 )

vs. )

)

Scott Daniel Warren, )

)

Defendant. )

______________________________) CR18-223-TUC-RCC (BPV)

 

 

 March 7, 2018

VIDEO DEPOSITION

Jose Arnaldo Sacaria-Goday

Transcribed by: Mass Transcription

Specializing in Legal Transcription

www.MassTranscription.com

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 1 of 58
2

APPEARANCES:

ANNA WRIGHT, Assistant U.S. Attorney

United States Courthouse

405 W. Congress Street, Suite 4800

Tucson, Arizona 85701

Attorney for Plaintiff

NATHANIEL JACOB WALTERS, Assistant U.S. Attorney

Attorney for Plaintiff

GREGORY JOHN KUYKENDALL, Attorney at Law

Gregory Kuykendall Law Offices

531 South Convent Avenue

Tucson, Arizona 85701

Attorney for Defendant

AMY PICKERING KNIGHT, Attorney at Law

Gregory Kuykendall Law Offices

531 South Convent Avenue

Tucson, Arizona 85701

Attorney for Defendant

MICHAEL JOHN MARTINEZ AREINOFF, Attorney at Law

407 W. Congress Street, Suite 501

Tucson, Arizona 85701

SCOTT DANIEL WARREN, Defendant

JOSE ARNALDO SACARIA-GODAY, Deponent

SANDY FRADY, Interpreter

CASE AGENTS

LEGAL STAFF

INDEX

WITNESS PAGE

Jose Sacaria-Goday, by Mr. Walters 4,50

Jose Sacaria-Goday, by Mr. Kuykendall 41

EXHIBITS

GOVERNMENT PROV. ADMISSION

3. Photo of Kristian Perez-Villanueva

4. Photo of Kristian Perez-Villanueva

5. Photo of 2nd Gas Station 33

6. Photo of House Deponent Stayed in

7. Photo of House Deponent Stayed in

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 2 of 58
3

8. Photo of House Deponent Stayed in

9. Photo of House / Bathroom

10. Photo of Inside of House

11. Photo of Inside of House w/ Map in it

12. Photo of Kitchen in House

13. Photo of Kitchen in House

14. Photo of Living Room, Entry to Bedroom of House

15. Photo of Signs in House

16. Photo of Room Deponent Stayed in

17. Photo of Room Deponent Stayed in

18. Photo of Room Deponent Stayed in

19. Photo of Bathroom Door in House

20. Photo of Bathroom in House

21. Photo of Bathroom in House

22. Photo of Bathroom in House

23. Photo of Bathroom in House / Shower

24.

25. Photo with Yellow Package in it

37. Photo of Deponent at 2nd Gas Station

38. Photo of Deponent at 2nd Gas Station

40. Photo of Deponent and Kristian at 2nd Gas Station 

41. Photo of Deponent at 2nd Gas Station

42. Photo at House w/ Deponent and Others

45. Photo at House w/ Deponent and Kristian

46. Photo at House w/ Deponent Cooking

48. Photo of 2nd Gas Station

49. Photo of 2nd Gas Station

50. Photo of Deponent at 2nd Gas Station

51. Photo of Deponent and Kristian at 2nd Gas Station

54. Photo of Deponent at 2nd Gas Station

55. Transcript of Border Patrol Interview w/ Deponent

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 3 of 58
4

1 THEREUPON:

2 MR. WALTERS: Good morning, sir.

3 MR. SACARIA-GODAY: Good morning.

4 MR. WALTERS: Do you recall being placed under 

5 oath this morning?

6 MR. SACARIA-GODAY: Yes.

7 MR. WALTERS: And did you promise to tell the 

8 truth?

9 MR. SACARIA-GODAY: Yes.

10 (JOSE ARNALDO SACARIA-GODAY, utilizing an interpreter 

11 translating English into Spanish and Spanish into 

12 English, was previously duly sworn.) 

13 DIRECT EXAMINATION

14 BY MR. WALTERS:

15 Q And just, going forward, it's important that 

16 you answer audibly, with a yes or a no, or -- instead of 

17 shaking your head or saying something like that, okay?

18 A Okay.

19 Q It's just all being recorded, so we want to 

20 make sure that we get a clear answer from you, okay?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Do you know what it means to tell the truth?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And do you understand that if you don't tell 

25 the truth that you could prosecuted for not telling the 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 4 of 58
5

1 truth?

2 A Yes. 

3 Q Sir, can you tell us your full name?

4 A Jose Arnaldo Sacaria-Goday.

5 Q And, sir, is it okay if I call you Jose?

6 A Yeah. Yes.

7 Q Thank you.

8 Jose, how old are you?

9 A Twenty-one.

10 Q Where were you born?

11 A Colón.

12 Q Where is Colón?

13 A Honduras.

14 Q So you were born in Colón, Honduras?

15 A Yeah. Yeah, it was that province of Colón, 

16 yeah.

17 Q Are you a citizen of the United States?

18 A No.

19 Q Of country are you a citizen?

20 A Honduras.

21 Q Do you have a home in Honduras?

22 A No.

23 Q Are you -- are you saying you're homeless then?

24 So I see him shaking his head no. 

25 Does that mean that -- do you have a place 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 5 of 58
6

1 where you were living when you were in Honduras?

2 A Well, I was renting a room.

3 Q And in what city were you renting a room in 

4 Honduras?

5 A Tocoa.

6 Q Do you know where your parents were born?

7 A No.

8 Q Do you know if they were also born in Honduras?

9 A Yes.

10 Q To your knowledge, are your parents also 

11 citizens of Honduras?

12 A Yes.

13 Q At some point in January of 2018, did you enter 

14 the United States?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Do you recall exactly what day that was?

17 A It was a Friday, the 12th.

18 Q How did you get across the border? Did you 

19 walk across, did you drive across? How did that happen?

20 A On foot. There were five of us.

21 Q And we'll get to that later.

22 Were there any obstacles that you had to cross 

23 in order to cross the border?

24 A Yeah, well, we jumped the wall. Yeah.

25 Q In your estimation, how tall was that wall?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 6 of 58
7

1 A Like the height of that?

2 Q And, for the record, do you mean the back wall 

3 of the courtroom?

4 A The height up there, yes.

5 Q Do you mean to the ceiling?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Okay. When you crossed the border, were you 

8 inspected by any United States immigration official?

9 A No.

10 Q Do you have -- when you crossed into the United 

11 States, did you have permission to be here?

12 A No.

13 Q And when you crossed into the United States, 

14 did you have any papers that allowed you to be here?

15 A No.

16 Q So, Jose, I want to talk about the time spent 

17 getting to the border, but before you crossed, okay?

18 A Before crossing?

19 Q Correct.

20 A Yes.

21 Q When did you leave Honduras on your journey to 

22 the United States?

23 A I don't remember. I just know that it was 

24 around the end of September, somewhere in that, but I 

25 don't recall.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 7 of 58
8

1 Q I understand. 

2 How did you get from Honduras to Mexico?

3 A Asking for a ride the whole way, since I left 

4 Honduras.

5 Q So did you hitchhike then all the way from 

6 Honduras to Mexico?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Where did you stay once you got to Mexico?

9 A At an immigrant house there at (Inaudible). I 

10 stayed there around two weeks.

11 Q Is that the place that you stayed before --

12 that you were staying before you crossed into the United 

13 States, or did you stay somewhere else before crossing 

14 into the U.S.?

15 A No. It's a long way, you know, even to the 

16 entrance to Mexico, and so then I had to travel all the 

17 way up to this country.

18 Q I understand. What I'm just trying to figure 

19 out is where you were staying directly before you entered 

20 the U.S.

21 A At an abandoned house.

22 Q How long had you stayed at that abandoned house 

23 before you crossed into the U.S.?

24 A Maybe a month, maybe almost two months. No, 

25 one month.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 8 of 58
9

1 Q Were you alone or were there other people 

2 staying with you?

3 A Alone.

4 Q And you mentioned earlier that five other 

5 people -- or five total people crossed with you, correct?

6 A Yes.

7 Q At what point did you meet up with those people 

8 in order to cross into the United States?

9 A They were at the immigrant house. I was in the 

10 abandoned house. And together, we agreed to jump the 

11 line.

12 Q So did you go to them, to the immigrant house, 

13 or did they come to you, to the abandoned house?

14 A We -- I went from the abandoned house, they 

15 went from the immigrant house, and we all went to a 

16 bridge.

17 Q And so it was by chance that you met those 

18 other four people; is that fair?

19 A We talked and we got to know each other. We 

20 would beg there under the bridge. They would go there to 

21 bathe. We would chat. And so then we made a plan and we 

22 jumped.

23 Q So when you say you would get together to 

24 bathe, was that just a common meeting place that you 

25 would go to? 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 9 of 58
10

1 A Yes.

2 Q So you didn't -- you didn't travel with any of 

3 those people from Honduras to Mexico?

4 A No.

5 Q Had you ever met any of those people prior to 

6 meeting them at the bridge?

7 A No, I met them there.

8 Q So I want to talk about what you did after you 

9 crossed the border, okay? Did you cross the border in 

10 the daytime or the nighttime?

11 A Nighttime.

12 Q And once you crossed the border, where is the 

13 first place that you went?

14 A I'm sorry?

15 Q Did you go to any locations, or specific 

16 locations that you remember after you crossed the border?

17 A We went there, we stayed there, we bathed. We 

18 ate our food and then we went to the border line. We 

19 went up the hill --

20 Q And I'll stop you right there. Sorry. 

21 I'm talking about after you crossed the border, 

22 where is the first place that you went?

23 A We didn't know where, so we just slept there 

24 out in the wild.

25 Q At one point did you get to any gas stations or 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 10 of 58
11

1 any other types of place where you could buy food, 

2 water, anything like that?

3 A We walked for one night, and the next day we 

4 rested, and we waited for night to fall again. And we 

5 stayed there and we walked again. We walked about eight 

6 or nine hours. We got to a town where you could see 

7 lights, and that was around 2:00 in the morning.

8 Q I'll stop you there. 

9 Did you end up going to that town with the 

10 lights?

11 A Well, we waited for morning. 

12 Q But --

13 A And we got there, and then immigration chased 

14 us. We threw the stuff away. We kept the water, and we 

15 kept on going. I had a jacket, and I had another jacket. 

16 I had something like this on, and then I put on a jacket. 

17 Q And I'll stop you there --

18 A I took the one that was on top of the --

19 Q So hold on. 

20 I'm talking about the town. So, the question 

21 was, did you ever end up going to the town where you saw 

22 the lights?

23 A Yes. We got there in the daytime. We went 

24 there in the morning, and we went to a gas station.

25 Q Okay. And when you got to the gas station, who 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 11 of 58
12

1 was with you?

2 A Kristian.

3 Q Where had the other three people gone at that 

4 point?

5 A We left them behind because they were 

6 complaining about the thorns that had gotten in through 

7 their shoes. 

8 Q So did --

9 A One sent me to hell. I said, no, I'm going on; 

10 if you want to stay behind, you do it.

11 Q Fair enough. 

12 What did you do once you got to that gas 

13 station?

14 A Well, I was with Kristian and we found this 

15 lady and she gave us a charger so we could charge the 

16 telephone. 

17 INTERPRETER: But, excuse me, I might have 

18 misunderstand, because she said no. 

19 THE WITNESS: We asked for a charger, but she 

20 said no. And we saw immigration going by, and so 

21 then we had changed and we got close to where the 

22 cars were --

23 BY MR. WALTERS:

24 Q Did you make any purchases while you were at 

25 the gas station?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 12 of 58
13

1 A No.

2 Q Did anybody give you any food, water, anything 

3 like that while you were there?

4 A If I was given?

5 Q Did you ask and did somebody give you food, 

6 water, supplies, anything like that?

7 A No, not there.

8 Q How long do you think you were at the gas 

9 station before you left?

10 A Maybe three, four hours, I think. A man got 

11 there, and I don't know if he seemed to recognize 

12 Kristian, and then we went to another gas station.

13 Q Okay, so stop right there.

14 How did you get to the next gas station? Did 

15 you walk? Did somebody give you a ride? Did you drive 

16 yourself? How did you get there?

17 A Well, we asked for a ride, but it was the 

18 second gas station where a friend, or I don't know what 

19 he was, was recognized.

20 Q Okay. And so we'll get there in a second. But 

21 when you went from the first gas station to the second 

22 gas station, how did you get there, to the second gas 

23 station? Sorry.

24 A A ride. We asked for a ride. We asked a 

25 gringo for a ride.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 13 of 58
14

1 Q All right. 

2 A We said to him, do you understand Spanish, and 

3 he said, a tiny bit, and we asked if he could give us a 

4 ride, and he said yes.

5 Q Did you know this person?

6 A No.

7 Q Did that person seem to know Kristian?

8 A No.

9 Q Okay. So how long do you think it took to get 

10 from the first gas station to the second gas station?

11 A Maybe five minutes. Well, he dropped us off, 

12 actually, before the second gas station. I don't know if 

13 it was a Shell or a Chevrolet. 

14 Q Okay. Well, let me ask you this --

15 A The gas station. We were walking and we saw 

16 immigration go by, and so then we pulled the cap down and 

17 covered our ears.

18 Q When you got to the second gas station, was it 

19 daytime or was it nighttime?

20 A Daytime.

21 Q And do you recall what kind of gas station it 

22 is? I know you started to talk about that a little bit.

23 A I know it was blue, that's all.

24 Q Okay. When you were at the -- I'm going to say 

25 -- blue gas station, did you speak to anyone while you 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 14 of 58
15

1 were there?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Who did you speak to?

4 A We asked for help from a gringo that was 

5 filling his car with fuel.

6 Q Did you make any phone calls while you were at 

7 the blue gas station?

8 A No.

9 Q Did Kristian make any phone calls?

10 A No.

11 Q How long were you at the blue gas station 

12 before you left?

13 A Well, there, that man recognized Kristian, and 

14 then he said, get in, and he took us and he dropped us 

15 off and said stay there, which was near his house, and we 

16 stayed there. And then we went into the house --

17 Q And we'll -- we'll get there in a second.

18 What made you believe that this man had 

19 recognized Kristian?

20 A Because Kristian told me. And, also, when he 

21 saw him, he said, hey, what are you doing here? Any 

22 other ones? Just us. The others stayed behind. Well, 

23 get in; I'll just drop you off at a house.

24 Q And those things that you're saying right now, 

25 is that what the driver said to you guys?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 15 of 58
16

1 MR. KUYKENDALL: I'm going to object on 

2 hearsay as to anything that the driver said. 

3 BY MR. WALTERS:

4 Q Those things that you were saying, were those 

5 things that the driver was saying to you?

6 A Well, he said to get in, that he would take us 

7 to a safe place, and left us there in front of that 

8 place.

9 Q Hold on. We'll get there. 

10 Specifically, what I was asking, the things 

11 that you were just talking about --

12 MR. KUYKENDALL: I'm sorry, but before you go 

13 on, can we just have an agreement that the same 

14 objection I made in the last deposition is going to 

15 continue in this one as to -- I won't continue to 

16 interrupt on hearsay --

17 MR. WALTERS: You just want a standing 

18 objection.

19 MR. KUYKENDALL: Pardon?

20 MR. WALTERS: You just want a standing 

21 objection --

22 MR. KUYKENDALL: That's --

23 MR. WALTERS: -- (inaudible) questioning.

24 MR. KUYKENDALL: Yeah.

25 MR. WALTERS: That's fine.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 16 of 58
17

1 MR. KUYKENDALL: All right.

2 BY MR. WALTERS:

3 Q So those things that you were mentioning 

4 earlier about asking about the other individuals, were 

5 those things the driver was saying to you and Kristian?

6 A He told both of us. Both of us.

7 Q Okay.

8 A He said, get in.

9 Q And what -- go ahead.

10 A And then -- so we got into the house and we 

11 went inside.

12 Q All right. Still not there yet.

13 What kind of car was this person driving?

14 A That I don't remember.

15 Q Do you remember if it was a car, a truck, a 

16 van, anything?

17 A It was just an ordinary car.

18 Q Do you remember what color it was?

19 A No, I don't. I wasn't paying attention. I 

20 just got in.

21 Q That's fine. When you got into this car, who 

22 else was in the car with you?

23 A Kristian and that guy.

24 Q By "that guy," do you mean the driver?

25 A Yeah.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 17 of 58
18

1 Q And where did he take you?

2 A To in front of the house. 

3 Q Did the driver make any stops between the blue 

4 gas station and the residence where he took you?

5 A No.

6 Q Did you hear the driver say anything to 

7 Kristian or anybody else?

8 A He just said that where he was taking us, for 

9 us to ask him for help.

10 Q Okay. Did he -- when you say "him," did he 

11 give you a specific name to ask for?

12 A No.

13 Q Did he just give a general, someone will help 

14 you here?

15 A He just said, you'll get help there, ask for 

16 help here.

17 Q Did the driver tell you to say or do anything 

18 if you were stopped by immigration?

19 A No.

20 Q I want to talk about that place you went to 

21 after the blue gas station, okay? What did you do when 

22 you got there?

23 A Well, we just stayed there. He came. We asked 

24 him for help and he said yes.

25 Q So before anybody came to the house, when you 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 18 of 58
19

1 first got there, was anybody there or was it just you 

2 and Kristian?

3 A There was nobody.

4 Q So was it just you and Kristian?

5 A Yes, and we went inside there.

6 Q Okay. How did you go inside? Did you go in 

7 through the front or the back, the side?

8 A The entrance.

9 Q The front entrance or the back entrance?

10 INTERPRETER: Counsel, I think that there may 

11 be a misunderstanding here --

12 MR. WALTERS: Okay.

13 INTERPRETER: -- between the entrance to the 

14 bathroom and the entrance to the house.

15 MR. WALTERS: Gotcha.

16 BY MR. WALTERS:

17 Q So this residence, it had two buildings, right?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Was one building a bathroom?

20 A I think so. Well, near that bathroom there was 

21 some trees, and we stayed there by the bathroom.

22 Q Did you actually go into the bathroom?

23 A We stayed there outside for a moment --

24 Q And what did you --

25 A -- and then we went inside, and then he came.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 19 of 58
20

1 Q And when you went inside, did you go into the 

2 bathroom or did you go into where the beds were, for 

3 example?

4 A The bathroom.

5 Q Okay. How long do you think you were at the 

6 residence before the man came?

7 A I don't remember.

8 Q That man that came, can you describe him?

9 A What do you mean?

10 Q Well, was he -- what color skin did he have?

11 A The one who got there when we were there in the 

12 bathroom?

13 Q Yes.

14 A Well, he was tall, skinny, hairy, white.

15 Q Do you see that person in the courtroom today?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And can you describe what that person is 

18 wearing? For example, can you describe what color his 

19 jacket is?

20 A Black.

21 Q And what color tie is he wearing?

22 MR. KUYKENDALL: We'll stipulate that Dr. 

23 Warren is the guy he's trying to identify.

24 MR. WALTERS: That's fine. Thank you.

25 INTERPRETER: The answer was, I can't see it.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 20 of 58
21

1 MR. WALTERS: That's okay.

2 BY MR. WALTERS:

3 Q What happened once the defendant got to the 

4 house?

5 A Well, we stayed there. We asked him if he 

6 could help us and he said yes.

7 Q Did you have -- did you have a conversation 

8 with the defendant about your journey into the United 

9 States?

10 A Yes.

11 Q What did -- what, specifically, did you tell 

12 him?

13 A Oh, I just told him the part of the story about 

14 the train and how a person suffers. He asked me how had 

15 we gotten there, and I told him, and he said that there's 

16 the bathroom if you want to bathe or shower.

17 Q When you told him how you got there, did you 

18 have a discussion about how and when you cross the 

19 border?

20 A He just asked us how we'd gotten there right 

21 where he was.

22 Q Did you ever have a discussion with the 

23 defendant about you climbing a wall to cross the border?

24 A Yes.

25 Q And did you ever have a discussion with the 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 21 of 58
22

1 defendant about the fact that you were from Honduras?

2 A I don't understand.

3 Q Did you ever tell the defendant that you were 

4 from Honduras?

5 A I don't remember.

6 Q Did the defendant give you water while you were 

7 at the house?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Did he give you food?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Did he give you any clothing?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Did he cook for you or did you cook for 

14 yourselves?

15 A We cooked, but he gave us the food and the 

16 kitchen was right there.

17 Q Did he ever instruct you on what to do if 

18 immigration officers came to the house?

19 A No.

20 Q Before the day you were arrested, had you ever 

21 seen Mr. Warren, the defendant, before?

22 A Who's that?

23 Q Had you ever seen the defendant prior to 

24 getting to the house for the first time?

25 A Oh, no.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 22 of 58
23

1 Q In the days leading up to your arrest, had 

2 you -- was Mr. Warren, the defendant, there at any other 

3 time?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Was he there all day or would he leave?

6 A He would leave. He hardly spent time there.

7 Q When he was at the residence, what would he do?

8 A Just there, and then friends of his would come 

9 and they would be chatting there.

10 Q How long were you at that residence?

11 A Two, three days.

12 Q How many nights did you stay?

13 A Two nights.

14 Q And you said two to three days?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Other than the defendant, how many people also 

17 went to the house, or also came to the house?

18 A Well, they would come, they would chat with 

19 him, then they would go, they would come back. There was 

20 a lot of fuss and noise.

21 Q How many people do you think came and went?

22 A Maybe five people.

23 Q When Mr. Warren, the defendant, was there, did 

24 he ever offer you medical assistance?

25 A No.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 23 of 58
24

1 Q Did he ever ask you if you needed medical 

2 attention?

3 A No.

4 Q Did he ever offer to drive you to the hospital?

5 A No.

6 Q Did you ever tell the defendant you needed 

7 medical attention?

8 A No, I did not tell him.

9 Q Did you ever -- did Mr. Warren, the defendant, 

10 ever give you instructions on how to continue your 

11 journey north into the United States?

12 A No.

13 Q Did he ever point out landmarks or places where 

14 you could safely cross into the United States?

15 A No.

16 Q Do you recall talking about El Cuadro with the 

17 defendant?

18 A El Cuadro?

19 Q A mountain?

20 A No.

21 Q Did he ever point out a mountain named El 

22 Cuadro to you?

23 A No.

24 Q Do you remember, at one point, ever standing 

25 outside with the defendant and being told where to cross 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 24 of 58
25

1 by him pointing?

2 A No.

3 Q Do you recall having an interview with Border 

4 Patrol where you stated that Mr. Warren, the defendant, 

5 pointed out landmarks to you?

6 A No.

7 Q No, that never happened, or, no, you don't 

8 remember?

9 A Well, I don't remember. 

10 Q Did Mr. Warren ever give you instructions about 

11 whether to stay inside the house or if you could go 

12 outside?

13 A No, he never did. No.

14 Q How long did Mr. Warren say you could stay at 

15 the house?

16 A We just asked him to let us rest for a few 

17 days, one or two days, and that we were going to leave.

18 Q Do you remember telling Border Patrol Mr. 

19 Warren --

20 A (Inaudible).

21 Q Hold on, hold on. 

22 MR. KUYKENDALL: I would object to not allowing 

23 the defendant -- or, I'm sorry, the witness, to 

24 continue answering his question.

25 MR. WALTERS: He did answer the question. He 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 25 of 58
26

1 said no.

2 MR. KUYKENDALL: He was answering the question 

3 when you cut him off and the court interpreter 

4 didn't have the chance to interpret his answer.

5 MR. WALTERS: I don't believe it was a response 

6 to a question, but go ahead.

7 THE WITNESS: In two days we told him we were 

8 leaving, and he said, you can stay another day if 

9 you want to or keep on going if you want to.

10 BY MR. WALTERS:

11 Q Do you remember speaking with Border Patrol and 

12 -- well, do you remember speaking with Border Patrol 

13 after you were arrested?

14 A No.

15 Q You don't remember having an interview with 

16 members of the United States Border Patrol?

17 A Where they did a video?

18 Q Yes.

19 A Yes.

20 Q And do you remember, in that interview, telling 

21 Border Patrol the defendant said you could stay as long 

22 as you wanted to?

23 A No, I don't remember that.

24 Q So to back up and -- I want to discuss all the 

25 people that were in the house. With all the people that 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 26 of 58
27

1 came to the house, did any one person appear to be in 

2 charge?

3 MR. KUYKENDALL: I'm going to object as it 

4 calls for speculation.

5 MR. WALTERS: Hold on. I'll just ask it again 

6 since he objected.

7 BY MR. WALTERS:

8 Q So out of all the people that came to the 

9 house, did any one person appear to you to be in charge?

10 MR. KUYKENDALL: And I'll object to the form. 

11 Calling for speculation.

12 THE WITNESS: No, I wasn't noticing that, 

13 because one would come, one would go. I don't know.

14 MR. KUYKENDALL: I'll withdraw the objection.

15 BY MR. WALTERS:

16 Q So I'm showing you what's been marked as 

17 Government Exhibits 37, 42, 38, 40, and 41. Take a look 

18 at those and then look up when you're done.

19 A Okay, I saw them.

20 Q So if you look on the back, you have a little 

21 yellow sticker. What's the first number that you have in 

22 front of you?

23 A Forty-one.

24 Q And what is that picture?

25 A Me.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 27 of 58
28

1 Q And where was that picture taken?

2 A At the gas station.

3 Q Which gas station, the first one or the second 

4 one?

5 A Second one.

6 Q And what's the next picture that you have?

7 A Forty.

8 Q And what is that a picture of?

9 A Us.

10 Q And by "us," who do you mean?

11 A Us two. Us two. That's us two. 

12 Q So is one of those individuals you?

13 A Yes, and Kristian.

14 Q Okay. And then the next picture?

15 A Thirty-eight.

16 Q What is that a picture of?

17 A Me.

18 Q Where was that picture taken?

19 A There at the gas station.

20 Q Which gas station?

21 A Second one.

22 Q And the next picture?

23 A Thirty-seven.

24 Q What is that a picture of?

25 A It was there at that gas station.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 28 of 58
29

1 Q Who is the picture of though?

2 A Me.

3 Q And what gas station was that picture taken at?

4 A The blue one.

5 Q Is that the first one or the second one?

6 A The second one.

7 Q Okay. And what's the final picture you have?

8 A Forty-two.

9 Q What is that a picture of?

10 A Where we were with them there.

11 Q Okay. So by "them," who do you mean?

12 A With those people --

13 Q So let's --

14 A -- (inaudible) people.

15 Q Who is in the picture that you know?

16 A Nobody.

17 Q Are you in the picture?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Is Kristian in the picture?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Do you know the three individuals in the back 

22 of that picture?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And who are those people?

25 A The ones who came by there.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 29 of 58
30

1 Q And when you say "there," where was this 

2 picture taken?

3 A There where we got caught.

4 Q Do you mean the house where you got caught?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Okay. I'm going to be showing you Exhibits 49, 

7 50, 51, 54, 46, and 45. And take a look at those and 

8 then look up when you're done.

9 MR. WALTERS: And while he's doing that, I'll 

10 show the camera, for the record, Exhibit 42, Exhibit 

11 37, Exhibit 38, Exhibit 40, and Exhibit 41.

12 BY MR. WALTERS:

13 Q So I'm going to start with Exhibit Number 49. 

14 What is that a picture of? 

15 A I think it's a gas station. Yes, it is.

16 Q And which gas station is that?

17 A The second one.

18 Q Moving on to Exhibit --

19 A The blue one. Excuse me, the blue one.

20 Q Okay. Moving on to Number 50, what is that a 

21 picture of, or do you recognize anybody in that photo?

22 A Me.

23 Q And do you know where that picture was taken?

24 A That was in that store, at that blue gas 

25 station.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 30 of 58
31

1 Q And the blue gas station was the second gas 

2 station you went to, correct?

3 A Yes. 

4 Q And moving on to Number 54, do you recognize 

5 anybody in that photograph?

6 A Me.

7 Q Do you know where that photograph was taken?

8 A There at that gas station, the blue one.

9 Q And now moving on to Number 46. Do you 

10 recognize anybody in that picture?

11 A Me.

12 Q and where was that picture taken?

13 A There at that house where we got arrested.

14 Q And what are you doing in that picture?

15 A Cooking. 

16 Q And now Number 45, do you recognize anybody in 

17 that photo?

18 A That's me and Kristian.

19 Q And where was that photograph taken?

20 A There at that house?

21 Q Do you guys know what you were doing when that 

22 photograph was taken? 

23 A Posing. Posing for the picture.

24 Q I'm going to show you Exhibits 12, 11, 10 -- I 

25 thought we did that one. 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 31 of 58
32

1 Number 51, do you recognize anybody in that 

2 photo?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Who do you recognize?

5 A Me and Kristian.

6 Q Do you know where that photograph was taken?

7 A There at that store.

8 Q Which store?

9 A At the gas station.

10 Q Which gas station?

11 A The blue one.

12 Q Okay. 

13 Okay, now I'm showing you Exhibits 12, 11, 10, 

14 9, 5, 3, 4, and 48. 

15 MR. WALTERS: And while he's doing that, this 

16 is Exhibit 51, Exhibit 45, Exhibit 46, Exhibit 54,

17 Exhibit 50, and Exhibit 49.

18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 

19 BY MR. WALTERS:

20 Q Starting with Exhibit Number 10, do you 

21 recognize that photo?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Where was that photo taken?

24 A It was there at the place we were staying, in 

25 that house.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 32 of 58
33

1 Q And Exhibit Number 9, do you recognize that 

2 photo?

3 A Yes.

4 Q What is that a photograph of?

5 A That house, and here's the bathroom on the 

6 left.

7 Q So this is the doorway that leads to the 

8 bathroom?

9 A Yes. Yeah, to the left is the bathroom, to the 

10 right is the house.

11 Q Okay. And moving on to Number 5, do you 

12 recognize that?

13 A Yes. This one, yes.

14 Q What is that a photograph of?

15 A That gas station.

16 Q Which gas station?

17 A The blue one. 

18 MR. WALTERS: I would, at this time, move to 

19 admit Exhibit Number 5.

20 (Thereupon, U.S. Exhibit Number 5 was 

21 provisionally moved for admission.)

22 BY MR. WALTERS: 

23 Q And looking at Exhibit Number 4, do you 

24 recognize anyone in that photograph?

25 A Kristian.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 33 of 58
34

1 Q Do you know where that photograph was taken?

2 A No. I don't recall. I don't know.

3 Q Okay. And looking at Exhibit Number 3, do you 

4 recognize anyone in that photo?

5 A Kristian.

6 Q Do you know where that photograph was taken?

7 A No. I don't recall.

8 Q Moving on to Number 48.

9 A It's the same gas station.

10 Q Which gas station?

11 A The blue one. It is the blue one.

12 Q Okay. And now looking at Exhibit Number 12.

13 A That's the house.

14 Q What --

15 A In the kitchen area, where we were kissing --

16 cooking. I'm sorry, cooking. In the kitchen, cooking.

17 Q And where is this kitchen located? 

18 A In that house.

19 Q In what house?

20 A Where we got caught.

21 Q And, finally, looking at Exhibit Number 11, 

22 what is that a picture of?

23 A Where we were staying, at that house.

24 Q Did you ever -- now, looking at that big map in 

25 the center of the photograph, do you know what I'm 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 34 of 58
35

1 talking about?

2 A Uh-huh.

3 Q Did you ever have a discussion with the 

4 defendant while looking at that map?

5 A No.

6 Q Did you have discussions with anyone in the 

7 house about your journey into the United States using 

8 that map? 

9 A No.

10 Q Now showing you Exhibit 16, 17, 18, 8, 7, 6, 

11 14, and 13. 

12 INTERPRETER: Counsel, I want to make clear 

13 that that was an interpreter's slip of the tongue, 

14 the word kissing. I mean to say kitchen.

15 MR. WALTER: And while he's doing that, Exhibit 

16 Number 10; Exhibit 9; Exhibit 3 -- or, sorry, 5; 

17 Exhibit 4; Exhibit 3; Exhibit 48; Exhibit 12; and 

18 Exhibit 11. Thank you. 

19 BY MR. WALTERS:

20 Q Have you had a chance to review those? 

21 Perfect.

22 A Yes.

23 Q And starting with Exhibit Number 16, do you 

24 recognize this photo?

25 A Oh, I don't -- oh, yeah, I do recognize it. 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 35 of 58
36

1 It's the room we slept -- I see the ladder there.

2 Q And when you say the room you slept, was that 

3 at the house where you were eventually arrested?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And looking at Number 17, Exhibit Number 17, do 

6 you recognize this photo?

7 A Yes, it's the room of that house.

8 Q What room?

9 A Where we slept.

10 Q And that's at the house where you were later 

11 arrested?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And looking at Exhibit Number 18, is that 

14 another view of the same room?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And is that also the same room located in the 

17 house where you were arrested?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And looking at Number 8, do you recognize this 

20 photograph? 

21 A Yes.

22 Q What is that a picture of?

23 A Where we were staying, there at that house.

24 Q And looking at Number 7, what is that a photo 

25 of?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 36 of 58
37

1 A Of that house where we were staying.

2 Q And, finally, Number 6, what is that a picture 

3 of?

4 A It's the house, that house.

5 Q And looking at Exhibit Number 14, what is that 

6 a picture of?

7 A The living room and the entry to that room 

8 where we stayed. 

9 Q And when you say "the room that we stayed," do 

10 you mean the bedroom or another room?

11 A Yes. Yeah, the bedroom, yes, where we stayed.

12 Q And then turning to Exhibit Number 13, what is 

13 that a picture of?

14 A Of the kitchen at that house.

15 Q I'm showing you Exhibits 25, 24, 19, 20, 21, 

16 22, 23, and 15. 

17 MR. WALTERS: Exhibit 16 -- is that the right 

18 way? Yeah. Exhibit 16, Exhibit 17, Exhibit 18, 

19 Exhibit 8, Exhibit 7, Exhibit 6, Exhibit 14, Exhibit 

20 13. 

21 BY MR. WALTERS:

22 Q Have you had a chance to look at those, Jose?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Starting with Exhibit Number 15, what is that a 

25 photograph of?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 37 of 58
38

1 A The room, and towards the back, I don’t know, 

2 where they kept stuff. And then part of the living room.

3 Q Is that a picture of the house where you were 

4 later arrested?

5 A Yes.

6 Q And now, if I could draw your attention to the 

7 center of the photograph, there are two -- do you see the 

8 two signs on the -- it looks like a white board?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Were those signs there when you were at the 

11 house?

12 A Yes. That's where they kept what we were 

13 eating.

14 Q Do you recall what those signs said?

15 A No.

16 Q And looking at Number 19, what is that a 

17 photograph of?

18 A Of the bathroom.

19 Q What part of the bathroom?

20 A Where we went in.

21 Q So is that the door to the bathroom?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Okay. Looking at Number 20, what is that a 

24 picture of?

25 A Of the bathroom.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 38 of 58
39

1 Q And so the bathroom of the house that you 

2 were staying?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And looking at Number 21, is that another 

5 picture of the same bathroom?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Looking at Number 22, is that a different view 

8 of the same bathroom?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And looking at Number 23, what is that a 

11 picture of?

12 A It's the bathroom. The shower.

13 Q Okay.

14 A Where we were staying. 

15 Q And looking at Exhibit Number 24, what is that 

16 a photograph of?

17 A Of the bathroom. It's the bathroom.

18 Q And, finally, Number 25, do you recognize 

19 anything in that photograph?

20 A In the bathroom.

21 Q Specifically, the yellow packages in the 

22 middle, do you know what those are?

23 A Well, underneath it says something what it is.

24 Q Okay, but have you ever seen those packages 

25 before?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 39 of 58
40

1 A No. No, I don't recall them.

2 Q Okay.

3 A I did see the writing that's underneath, on the 

4 bottom, I did see that.

5 Q Okay. But you didn't take any of those pills 

6 that are contained in the yellow package? 

7 A No.

8 Q Okay. Jose, when you spoke to the defendant, 

9 what language did he use?

10 A Spanish.

11 Q Were all of your conversations with him in 

12 Spanish?

13 A Yes.

14 Q When you were talking to him in Spanish, were 

15 you able to understand what he was saying?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Okay.

18 MR. WALTERS: I don't have anything else. Do 

19 you want to break for lunch, give Ms. Sandy a break?

20 INTERPRETER: I don't care.

21 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And the deputies.

22 MR. WALTERS: And the deputies.

23 MR. KUYKENDALL: Well, I'm not going to be very 

24 long, but as I understand it, we have to come back 

25 at 2:00 o'clock --

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 40 of 58
41

1 MR. WALTERS: Right.

2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's right.

3 MR. WALTERS: Yep.

4 MR. KUYKENDALL: I can do it my own self, but I 

5 don't want to mess with anybody -- the -- you guys 

6 can stay 10 minutes? Is that all right?

7 MS. WRIGHT: I mean, just because lawyers are 

8 never as short as they say they're going to be, 

9 between that and Mr. Walters' redirect, are you guys 

10 fine with staying a half-hour into the lunch hour?

11 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay.

12 MR. WALTERS: Ms. Sandy, are you okay?

13 INTERPRETER: I'm fine. I'm fine.

14 MR. WALTERS: Okay. All right.

15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr. Kuykendall. 

16 CROSS EXAMINATION

17 BY MR. KUYKENDALL: 

18 Q Mr. Sacaria, I'm the lawyer representing Dr. 

19 Warren; do you understand that?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And under our rules, I need to ask you some 

22 questions about what the Government prosecutor was asking 

23 you, okay?

24 A Yes.

25 Q You understand then, right?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 41 of 58
42

1 A Yes.

2 Q And if, at any time, you do not understand me 

3 or the interpreter, tell me and I'll start over. Fair?

4 A Okay. Yes.

5 Q You have spoken with Kristian since you two 

6 were arrested; is that right?

7 A Yes.

8 Q You guys are detained together up in Florence, 

9 right?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And you have opportunities every day to talk 

12 about this case, correct?

13 A No, because I'm in another area.

14 Q But you see him how often?

15 A When we go out to the yard. 

16 Q And you --

17 A That's the only place, and we chat. We play 

18 cards, ball.

19 Q Okay, that's fair. 

20 Now, this is not your first trip to the United 

21 States, is it?

22 A No. I've been here before.

23 Q You crossed illegally through Texas about four 

24 or five years ago, right?

25 A Yes.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 42 of 58
43

1 Q And, ultimately, you were reunited with your 

2 mother on that trip, right?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Ultimately, you were ordered to be deported 

5 from here and they sent you back to Honduras, right?

6 A I bought the ticket and I left.

7 Q So you left voluntarily and returned to 

8 Honduras.

9 A Yes.

10 Q And then you returned to the United States and 

11 you were arrested in January of this year?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Now, when you crossed the border this time, it 

14 was at night and it was cold, right?

15 A Yes.

16 Q And it was quite cold all the nights that you 

17 were in the desert; is that fair?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And you walked eight, nine hours, at night, 

20 through that cold desert, right?

21 A Yes. One night, yes.

22 Q And at one point, you lost your water; is that 

23 right?

24 A Yeah. When we saw immigration, we threw our 

25 stuff away and ran. And then we returned and we grabbed 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 43 of 58
44

1 the water but our backpacks were no longer there. All 

2 there was was the water.

3 Q So at that point, you had no more food; is that 

4 correct?

5 A No, we had no food.

6 Q So by the time you arrived at the house where 

7 Dr. Warren finally showed up, by the time you arrived at 

8 that house, you were hungry and cold; is that true?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And you were very tired; is that true?

11 A Very tired.

12 Q And that's true of Kristian, as well, right?

13 MR. WALTERS: Objection. Calls for 

14 speculation.

15 THE WITNESS: Yes.

16 BY MR. KUYKENDALL:

17 Q Now, you had a phone with you as you crossed 

18 the border and before you were arrested, right?

19 A Yes. I did have one, but when I got chased by

20 immigration, I threw it away, and Kristian had his own.

21 Q You threw your phone away when immigration was 

22 chasing you through the desert; is that right?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And the reason you threw your telephone is 

25 because you did not want immigration to find out what was 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 44 of 58
45

1 on your phone, correct?

2 A I don't understand.

3 Q You threw your phone away because you didn't 

4 want Border Patrol finding out what was on your phone.

5 A Well, it fell, but I threw it, and I threw my 

6 backpack. I don't know when it fell.

7 Q All right. So you don't know -- now you don't 

8 remember whether you threw it or whether it fell?

9 A It fell and I didn't notice it.

10 Q You told the Border Patrol, when they arrested 

11 you, that you threw the phone, right?

12 A Yes, I do remember that.

13 Q Okay. Were you lying to the Border Patrol when 

14 you told them that you threw the phone?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Were you lying to the Border Patrol when you 

17 told them the other things that you told them?

18 A Yes.

19 Q So sometimes you lie, sometimes you tell the 

20 truth?

21 A Well, the only thing I lied about was throwing 

22 the telephone.

23 Q And the reason you lied about telling the --

24 I'm sorry. The reason you lied about throwing the 

25 telephone is why?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 45 of 58
46

1 A I was mad.

2 Q So when you're mad, you lie?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Are you mad now?

5 A No.

6 Q So the only way for us to say for sure whether 

7 you're telling the truth or not is for us to know whether 

8 you're mad?

9 A I'm sorry, I don't understand.

10 Q If you're mad then you lie; is that what you're 

11 telling us?

12 A Yes.

13 Q So if I want to know whether you're telling the 

14 truth, I have to know whether you're mad; is that right?

15 A Mad, yes. And I'm not right now. Take it 

16 easy. 

17 INTERPRETER: English. Take it easy.

18 BY MR. KUYKENDALL:

19 Q You want me to take it easy on you?

20 A No, I'm calm. I'm calm. I just want to tell 

21 you that I'm calm.

22 Q When you arrived at the -- at the house where 

23 you were ultimately arrested, the only other person at 

24 the house was Kristian, right?

25 A Yes.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 46 of 58
47

1 Q How many minutes, or hours, were you at that 

2 house with Kristian alone before Dr. Warren arrived?

3 A When we first got there?

4 Q Right.

5 A I don't remember.

6 Q It could have been an hour?

7 A Maybe 40 minutes. I'm not sure.

8 Q Okay. That's fair. Thirty minutes to an hour, 

9 is that a fair range?

10 A I'd say about 40 minutes.

11 Q And during that time that you and Kristian were 

12 at the house by yourselves, before Dr. Warren arrived, 

13 you used the bathroom, right?

14 A Yes.

15 Q You drank water?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Did you use the shower?

18 A Yes.

19 Q And when Dr. Warren arrived, Kristian tried to 

20 speak English with him, right?

21 A No.

22 Q Did he try to speak Spanish with him?

23 A I think he asked him something. I don’t 

24 remember.

25 Q Is this a fair statement: Dr. Warren barely 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 47 of 58
48

1 speaks Spanish?

2 MR. WALTERS: Objection. Calls for 

3 speculation.

4 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes. That's why I hardly 

5 spoke to him.

6 BY MR. KUYKENDALL: 

7 Q You don’t speak English.

8 A No.

9 Q And he barely speaks Spanish.

10 A Yes.

11 Q So you barely spoke with Dr. Warren during the 

12 time that you were at that house, before you were 

13 arrested, corrected?

14 A Hardly any.

15 Q Now, you saw the picture of cooking the food 

16 inside the house, right?

17 A Yes.

18 Q You were cooking the food because you needed to 

19 eat, right?

20 A Oh, yeah.

21 Q You were extremely hungry by the time you 

22 arrived at that house; is that a fair statement?

23 A Yes.

24 Q And you were very, very tired also, right?

25 A Yeah.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 48 of 58
49

1 Q Did Dr. Warren ever give you a flashlight?

2 A No.

3 Q Did he ever give you a map?

4 A No.

5 Q Did he ever give you a ride anywhere?

6 A No.

7 Q Did he lock you inside the house?

8 A No.

9 Q You and Kristian could come inside and out of 

10 the house when you wanted to, right?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And sometimes you went outside and sometimes 

13 you stayed inside?

14 A Yes.

15 Q He -- Dr. Warren never told you to hide inside, 

16 did he?

17 A No.

18 Q I want to ask you some questions about what 

19 happened just before you were arrested, so let's focus on 

20 that period of time, okay? 

21 A Okay.

22 Q You and Kristian were hidden in the bathroom 

23 when the sheriff and Border Patrol arrived; is that 

24 right?

25 A Yes.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 49 of 58
50

1 Q Dr. Warren didn't tell you to hide in the 

2 bathroom, did he?

3 A I don't know where he was.

4 Q But Dr. Warren never told you to hide in the 

5 bathroom; is that correct?

6 A No.

7 Q You two decided to hide in the bathroom when 

8 you realized that Border Patrol was outside, correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And you locked the door to the bathroom, right?

11 A Yes.

12 Q And a Border Patrolman told you to open the 

13 door?

14 A Yes.

15 Q He didn't ask you politely to please open the 

16 door, he told you directly to open the door, right?

17 A Yes.

18 MR. KUYKENDALL: Just one minute.

19 Thank you.

20 MR. WALTERS: I will try to be quick. I 

21 promise.

22 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

23 BY MR. WALTERS:

24 Q Jose, you just testified that you were hungry 

25 and thirsty when you got to the house, right?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 50 of 58
51

1 A Yes.

2 Q How long had it been since you had eaten 

3 anything or drank anything?

4 A We hardly ate, just some beans, but very 

5 little. I think it had been about 11 hours since the 

6 last time we'd eaten.

7 Q I want to show you what's been marked as 

8 Government Exhibits 38 and 51.

9 INTERPRETER: He said something.

10 THE WITNESS: Well, we asked a man to give us a 

11 ride and -- and he gave us $40.00, and there we got 

12 some food. We bought a burrito and a Gatorade.

13 BY MR. WALTERS:

14 Q So in looking at Exhibit Number 38, where is 

15 that picture taken?

16 A At the gas station, the blue one. 

17 Q And is that the Powerade that you bought, or 

18 the Gatorade that you bought sitting next to you?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And the tin foil right next to the Gatorade, is 

21 that the burrito that you purchased?

22 A Yeah.

23 Q And was -- where was this picture taken?

24 A At the blue gas station.

25 Q So that was the gas station directly -- you 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 51 of 58
52

1 were at that gas station directly before you went to 

2 the residence, right?

3 A Yes.

4 Q So it had actually been -- is it fair to say 

5 then that it had been a lot less than 11 hours when you 

6 last ate something or last drank something?

7 A Yes, but what we ate was very little, because 

8 those beans didn't taste very good. Kristian was the one 

9 who ate more of it. I didn't.

10 Q Okay. Did you drink all your Gatorade?

11 A Yes.

12 Q I want to clarify something about your lying 

13 about the phone, about your cell phone. When you --

14 well, let me ask this way, is there anything else in your 

15 interview with Border Patrol that you lied about other 

16 than your cell phone? 

17 A Yes.

18 Q What else did you lie about?

19 A I had said that the man who took us had talked 

20 to him, and he hadn't. 

21 Q Talked to you about what?

22 A Talked to him.

23 Q The man had talked to you about what?

24 A The one who took us to that house, I said that 

25 he had talked to him, and that's not true. He just 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 52 of 58
53

1 dropped us off.

2 Q I understand. 

3 Did you lie about your conversations with the 

4 defendant?

5 A I don't understand.

6 Q When you had a conversation with Border Patrol, 

7 did you tell them that you had a conversation with the 

8 defendant?

9 A I don't remember.

10 Q Do you remember giving an interview, or doing 

11 an interview, with U.S. Border Patrol?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And that was videotaped?

14 A Yes.

15 MR. WALTERS: I am approaching the witness with 

16 what's been marked as Exhibit Number 55. 

17 BY MR. WALTERS:

18 Q Jose, if you could look at the first page, do 

19 you recognize any names?

20 A This one here.

21 Q And what name do you recognize?

22 A My name.

23 Q And do you remember -- you said earlier -- I'm 

24 sorry, go ahead.

25 A Jose Arnaldo Sacaria-Goday.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 53 of 58
54

1 Q And you said earlier you remembered doing an 

2 interview with Border Patrol, correct?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Do you recall having a conversation with the 

5 defendant about a mountain named El Cuadro?

6 A I don't remember.

7 Q Do you remember telling the Border Patrol that 

8 that conversation happened or no?

9 A I don't remember.

10 Q Let me ask you this, do you think if you were 

11 able to look at a transcript of your interview that would 

12 refresh your recollection as to what you told Border 

13 Patrol?

14 A Perhaps, yes.

15 Q Okay, so I'm showing you page 37 of Exhibit 55. 

16 On the left side is the Spanish translation. On the 

17 right side is the English translation. If you could just 

18 review that and then look up when you're done.

19 A Oh, yeah.

20 Q Does that refresh your recollection, Jose?

21 A Yeah. I did lie there.

22 Q You lied about the defendant talking about El 

23 Cuadro?

24 A I did lie there, yes.

25 Q Why would you lie about that?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 54 of 58
55

1 A I was mad. 

2 INTERPRETER: I'm not understanding. I need to 

3 ask him --

4 MR. WALTERS: That's okay.

5 THE WITNESS: Well, my baby had broken an arm. 

6 I was mad. I was thinking about that. 

7 BY MR. WALTERS:

8 Q You were thinking about that when?

9 A When I was asked about things. 

10 Q So I'll kind of ask you the same question that 

11 defense counsel then asked, which -- what else did you 

12 lie about in the Border Patrol interview?

13 A I don't remember now, but I did lie about 

14 several things. 

15 MR. WALTERS: I'll just have a minute.

16 I have no further questions, but I just need to 

17 put these on the video for the record.

18 Exhibit Number 15.

19 Exhibit Number 19. 

20 Exhibit 20.

21 Exhibit 21.

22 Exhibit 22.

23 Exhibit 23.

24 Exhibit 24.

25 Exhibit 25.

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 55 of 58
56

1 MS. WRIGHT: That's the end of the 

2 depositions for today. Before I stop the recording, 

3 two things. First, I'm going to put on the record 

4 who all was in the room today.

5 So, for the Government were Anna Wright and 

6 Nate Walters, ASUAs, as well as Case Agents Arjelia 

7 Robles (ph.) and Sam Cavillo (ph.).

8 The material witnesses were both here and 

9 testified, as long with their counsel, Michael 

10 Areinoff.

11 We have two deputies.

12 And we have Mr. Kuykendall, with Ms. Knight, 

13 the defendant, and their legal staff. 

14 The exhibit stickers for trial will be moved to 

15 the front of the exhibits, but, otherwise, I don't 

16 believe there's any other record to make.

17 MR. WALTERS: Just one more thing, Jose. Your 

18 -- do you have an address in Honduras?

19 THE WITNESS: No.

20 MR. WALTERS: Do you have relatives that you 

21 would stay with if you were sent back to Honduras?

22 THE WITNESS: All my family is up here.

23 MR. WALTERS: If you are removed from the 

24 country, would you be willing to give your attorney 

25 a phone number and a contact address for you?

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 56 of 58
57

1 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I don't have an 

2 address. I don't have a telephone number to give 

3 them. 

4 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Maybe you want to clarify 

5 that once he arrives somewhere and --

6 MR. WALTERS: Right. That's what I was going 

7 to do.

8 Once you arrive somewhere, would you be willing 

9 to share whatever information you have with your 

10 attorney?

11 THE WITNESS: I don't know.

12 MR. WALTERS: You don't know if you'd be 

13 willing to provide that information?

14 THE WITNESS: Well, I don't know what 

15 information you want.

16 MR. WALTERS: Phone number and an address.

17 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes.

18 MR. WALTERS: You'd be willing to give that 

19 information to your attorney. 

20 (Thereupon, the deposition concluded.)

21

22

23

24

25

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 57 of 58
58

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION

STATE OF ARIZONA

COUNTY OF PIMA:

The above and foregoing transcript is a true and 

correct typed copy of the contents of the file, which was 

digitally recorded in the proceeding identified at the 

beginning of the transcript, to the best of my ability, 

knowledge and belief.

WITNESS my hand and official seal this 10th day of 

May, 2018.

Tracy Corey

Notary Public-State of Arizona

My commission #258973

Expires August 24, 2019

/s/ Tracy Corey 

Case 4:18-cr-00223-RCC-DTF Document 315-2 Filed 08/26/19 Page 58 of 58