WPS Breaking Barriers Podcast

Episode 7: Argentina

Original Interview in Spanish

Lt. Col. Turner [1:09] Welcome everyone to our podcast Breaking Barriers. It’s a 

pleasure to have you with us for this new episode. Today we have the privilege of 

having Major Auditor Natalia Vazquez as our guest. She is the chief of the Gender 

Office for Argentina’s armed forces. Natalia was born in Bahia Blanca, where I had the 

great pleasure of visiting in 2015. Major Vasquez joined the Argentinian military in 2017 

and has played roles including chief of the Department of Military Justice of the

Command Corps. She has also served giving legal advice for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 

support of the Chief of Staff for the Argentinian armed forces. This year, in 2021, she 

leads the Gender Office full-time. She has established herself out as a UN

peacekeeper. She is a military officer who breaks barriers. Welcome, Major Vasquez. 

It’s a pleasure to have you with us.

Major Vazquez [2:15] Hello, I send you all my regards from here in Argentina in Buenos 

Aires. 

Lt. Col. Turner [2:22] What a pleasure. You know I had the opportunity to live in Buenos 

Aires for three months. The people were wonderful, and the military collaboration that 

we have with Argentina makes me very glad to have you here today. Can you tell us a 

bit about yourself and share some of your experiences as a military officer in Argentina?

Major Vazquez [2:40] In my experience with the military in Argentina, I can say that my 

first destination was to work with people in Command Corps, both men and women, and 

this shaped me in the sense that I am an auditor, a lawyer. So, in this case, after having 

spent 14 years with this group in the city of Mar de Plata, this formed me and showed 

me how the commando corps work. From there, in 2020, I was transferred to another 

office—first in the legal advice office and then in the gender office, now with a different 

feel, perspective, and specialization, helping women in situations of vulnerability. But 

having spent 14 years in the city of ciudad de Mar de Plata with the soldiers and military 

officers formed me and allowed me to be able to help in situations that you wouldn’t 

normally see in an office—you really must be in a combat unit.

Lt. Col. Turner [4:11] Yes, I agree. Many times, being together with our fellow service 

members who have been in combat roles, gives us a wider vision of what the true value 

and use of the armed forces is—managing the use of force, keeping peace. This way 

we can connect it to the many different functions that military personnel play. I’m glad to 

know that you had that opportunity, and that now you have the opportunity to be the first 

chief of the Gender Office, which is a new organization. We know that Argentina has 

made great strides towards the integration of women into the Armed Forces, as well as 

now this position that you’re in. We know that Argentina has made great progress 
 

towards the integration of women into the Armed Forces. Can you tell us about what 

circumstances are women's integration into the Argentinian Armed Forces, and what 

are some positive points of this integration?

Major Vazquez [5:18] Well, the integration of women into the armed forces has been 

seen in Argentina since 1994, where the incorporation of volunteer soldiers began in 

1997, when women from the commando corps entered. Then the most recent 

incorporation was into the infantry and cavalry. This was something new, something you 

couldn't. And it was a big step forward. This policy was carried out by Minister Garré in 

the presence of Néstor Kirchner. And well, they were great advances, among other 

advances that were the ones that also helped the male staff, like in not asking for me to 

get married and allowing pregnant women to continue their careers within military 

institutes. It is to generate maternal gardens for women in the military. With a lot of 

gender perspective. And well, these have been great advances for women, especially 

the creation of the Office of Gender and protocols for domestic violence. All these initial 

changes with Minister Nilda Garré, the big changes related to women in particular. 

Lt. Col. Turner [6:44] I am particularly pleased to hear about these important changes. 

These internal mechanisms are necessary for women to enter the Armed Forces. To be 

in the Armed Forces and that they can grow through the ranks. These internal 

mechanisms are therefore very important for formalizing the presence of women, the 

integration of women into the Armed Forces. A few months ago, we had an important 

high-level bilateral meeting between the United States and Argentina and among the 

number of issues that they discussed about defense and security, I was very pleased to 

hear that they also included gender inclusion. The role of women in the Armed Forces, 

that is, the road, seems to be quite positive. What is the current policy on the role of 

women in uniform in Argentina? 

Major Vazquez [7:41] Well, today with the current policy, uh, we are working together 

with the Ministry of Defense, with the Directorate for Gender Policy and from there we 

have the gender councils with which we meet monthly or periodically and from there we 

do policies, resolutions, directives to contribute our experiences in each meeting with 

different professionals. This year, professionals have also joined the command corps to 

give their perspective. Not only psychologists and auditors, but also people from the 

command corps, and what is done to work with new masculinities and try to ensure that 

women in a command corps are not so reluctant around gender issues, but to defend 

their rights, so to speak. I know it's harder for them. And in this case, I also must give 

what is labor violence and domestic violence, supporting people who are victims of 

domestic violence and sexual harassment, something like that. Well, that's what we're 

always working at the Ministry of Defense. In this case this year, has been very 

particular in terms of COVID a lot has been done quite a bit virtually on all different 

mediums, through email, by telephone, or any other means available, with phones 

available 24 hours, and always being as present as possible for staff who need help, 

who is vulnerable or in situations of vulnerability. 
 

Lt. Col. Turner [9:34] That educational part, those real programs is what we like to refer 

to as normalizing the presence of women not only as victims, because we know that is a 

problem that we need to solve. But we, too, women in uniform and men working to 

intervene to make interventions, so that such violence, and victims of it do not have to 

suffer. So, it's that paradigm where we have women who are victims, but we also have

women who are part of the defense of security and that is very important, to have that 

bond that maybe years ago we didn't have. Yes. From what you tell me, it's obvious that 

we've succeeded, that, Argentina has made great strides, progress in integrating

women into defense and security, but I think there remain obstacles. What do you think 

are the next steps to advance these goals? 

Major Vazquez [10:35] Well, the steps as usual is to continue the work being done on 

this issue, it obviously remains to eradicate the issue of domestic violence. But 

eradication is difficult. Using the tool of the Ministry of Defense, et cetera. We work 

continuously with new protocols, and so on. I think it is also important for women to 

have higher positions of command than they do not today and achieve equity and that 

there is equal opportunity between men and women. Today women have not yet 

reached command posts in Argentina within the years when they were incorporated. 

That is important. And also, work is under way by the Ministry of Defense with statistics

to determine that women can participate in peace missions and with time longer than six 

months and that they can be up to one year like male staff, since the large number of 

men going is not the same as the number of women on family matters or for different 

issues. Um, well, all these issues are still being worked on day by day.

Lt. Col. Turner [11:55] And that part of having the number of women is important, but 

sometimes when we talk about the integration of women into the Armed Forces, some 

people think that just add numbers, mix, and the problem has already been solved. But 

this point you highlight that it is important that women have a significant presence, that 

they have positions where they can lead, where they can ascend. That's very important. 

The formula is not quotas, they are not numbers. It goes further. It is more complex so 

that we can really create lasting change. I really like this point it makes. Thank you very 

much. Now I would like to change a little bit and to a more personal level and ask, what 

was a moment in your career as a woman in uniform that has brought you the greatest 

pride? Do you have any personal stories you'd like to share with us? 

Major Vazquez [12:55] Well, my greatest pride has been when I deployed to Cyprus and 

achieved, of course, with a different perspective. Months had passed and then, when I 

returned to Argentina, I managed to convert what, from the perspective of gender, 

masculinity or from what is the Argentine tradition, is considered weakness on the part 

of women. For example, having a family, having a two-year-old child when deploying to 

Cyprus, could have been considered a weakness. Then the death of my mother, too. 

She passed away while I was in Cyprus and I managed to turn those weaknesses into 

strengths and achieve the peace mission. People approached me and I realized that the 
 

people who approached me came close to me with bigger problems than mine and 

telling me their experiences. Then I also became a source of support, especially of the 

male staff, who many times and when already ending the mission, wanted to return to 

their country. I became support for them so that they did not repatriate and that was 

very, very interesting to help them, especially support the male staff because women 

were very strong and showed how, in the forces, women in situations that can 

considered vulnerable, can, like men, complete the mission, participate, finish and be at 

the same height as the male staff. 

Lt. Col. Turner [14:41] That point is very interesting, very important because for 

example, in my case, for more than 20 years I served was not mom. And then I became 

a mom and my whole career. Of course, I served my country with great pride, many 

times focusing on my accomplishments, but now that I'm a mom it's no longer about my 

achievements, that's what I want to leave to my children. So, my commitment to my 

uniform is even greater, my desire to do better, to leave a legacy for them that highlights

the achievements I have made, the uniform, the contributions to my country. No, it's no 

longer personal respect, but for my children. I give even more effort and I'm a better 

military person today because I'm a mom. Sometimes people can look at a mom and 

think, “How will you be able to do all that and be a mom?” It gives many of us even 

more strength. What do you really think? 

Major Vazquez [15:39] Being a mom gives us more strength. And well, me personally

when I flew from Cyprus, not only the male staff, but also many women considered it

bad for me to travel to Cyprus leaving my 6-month-old son in Argentina. In other words, 

the change must be not only in the mentality of men, but also of women, which often 

and especially in Argentina, is a sexist mentality. And it is not understood that a woman 

also wants to develop professionally, obviously accompanying the family, and bring that 

together, but change must come from both men and women. 

Diu [16:28] Yes. Here at Southern Command, we like to say that women, peace, and 

security, it's not something we do, but it's how we think and once that mindset 

changes— that's when we're going to see all those barriers break. We're going to break 

all those barriers when we changed the way we think. How you would define, as a 

woman, as an Argentinian, as a soldier, how would you define your leadership style? 

Major Vazquez [16:59] My style of leadership, I handle it with empathy. I try to be 

empathic and when I hear a problem, I listen to it, and I put myself in the other person's 

place. I also base it on situations I’ve experienced from age, from being a mother, and 

from professional experiences. So, I think with empathy one can manage to understand 

the other person, put yourself in place of someone else and work in this way, in a better 

way and be able to reach a solution where everyone is comfortable and can continue 

their profession accordingly. Solving the problems such as harassment at work, sexual 

harassment, etc., but always being a support, listening actively and always my way of 

working is empathically. Not listen and that’s it, but rather really listen to the person. 
 

Lt. Col. Turner [18:06] You know that I and I received book called Emotional Intelligence 

and talks a lot about leadership and one of the most important features of emotional 

intelligence is empathy. There are even companies here in the United States that is 

already a part of acquiring new employees— to consider their talent and their level of 

emotional intelligence, because that empathy is what can really change teams and 

moves the company forward. I think that in our armed forces, that characteristic of 

emotional intelligence is a force that can make our teams more cohesive, and our 

missions more effective. One of my first activities when I started as head of the Women, 

Peace, and Security program here at Southern Command, was to work with 50 cadets 

from Argentina who came on a ship and came here by Southern Command, where I 

had the great opportunity to introduce them to our program. And I saw that there was a 

lot of enthusiasm. That new generation has a lot of enthusiasm. So, my question to you 

is what would you say to young people, particularly women, who want to join the Armed 

Forces? 

Major Vazquez [19:26] Well, I'd tell women who wants to join the Armed Forces that this 

means a lifestyle. To bear the flag with pride, the country with pride. It means learning to 

work as a team, acquiring strengths, being part of the change that is already happening, 

having women in their day-to-day reflect their perspective and adding or advocating for

the incorporation of both men and women. For all of us to be part of this change that 

has come from a couple of years ago but is getting stronger and stronger. 

Lt. Col. Turner [00:20:19] We are now coming to the end of the episode, and we have a 

question that we always ask all our guests, which is as follows. When thinking about the 

gender perspective in the Defense and Security Forces, how do you think that each 

individual, men and women can participate in making the invisible visible? 

Major Vazquez [20:43] Well, from my point of view. I believe that this is achieved with 

the commitment of every individual and of high-ranking men and women engaging and 

becoming involved with— and this has a little to do with the previous question—

engaging with your neighbor. If there is no commitment to one another, to truth, justice, 

equality, and equity, one cannot achieve visibility of those who are invisible. 

Commitment, love of neighbor, empathy, and fearlessness. If we’re afraid, then we can't 

move forward. So, to make the invisible visible, we need that commitment to the other 

person. 

Lt. Col. Turner [21:28] I congratulate you on being an Argentinian soldier who operates 

fearlessly and breaks so many barriers. For all our listeners today, what a privilege to 

have with us today the Major Auditor, Natalia Vázquez, of the Argentine Armed Forces.

Major Vázquez, thank you again so much for sharing with us your experiences, for 

representing Argentina and for everything you do. You're truly, a great role model, and 

an inspirational one who breaks barriers. It was an honor. 
 

Major Vazquez [21:59] Thank you very much. It was a pleasure.