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UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

CIVIL DIVISION

JOSEPH H. HUNT

Assistant Attorney General

RUTH A. HARVEY

Director

KIRK MANHARDT

Deputy Director

MATTHEW J. TROY (GABN 717258)

Senior Trial Counsel

P.O. Box 875

Ben Franklin Station

Washington, DC 20044-0875

Telephone: (202) 514-9038

E-mail: matthew.troy@usdoj.gov

DAVID L. ANDERSON (CABN 149604)

United States Attorney

ROBIN M. WALL (CABN 235690)

Assistant United States Attorney

Attorneys for the United States of America

UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

SAN FRANCISCO DIVISION

In re:

PG&E CORPORATION

- and -

PACIFIC GAS AND ELECTRIC

COMPANY,

 Debtors.

� Affects PG&E Corporation

� Affects Pacific Gas and Electric Company

◼ Affects both Debtors

All papers shall be filed in the Lead Case,

No. 19-30088 (DM).

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Bankruptcy Case

No. 19-30088 (DM)

Chapter 11

(Lead Case)

 (Jointly Administered)

 Date: December 17, 2019

 Time: 10:00 a.m.

 Place: United States Bankruptcy Court

 450 Golden Gate Avenue

 Courtroom 17

 San Francisco, CA 94102

 Judge: Hon. Dennis Montali

 RE: Docket No. 4553 

 

OPPOSITION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO NOTICE OF DEBTORS’ 

DESIGNATION OF CLAIMS FILED BY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, THE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND ADVENTIST HEALTH SYSTEM AS 

UNLIQUIDATED AND SUBJECT TO ESTIMATION UNDER SECTION 502(c) OF 

THE BANKRUPTCY CODE

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The United States of America, on behalf of the United States Department of Homeland 

Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (“FEMA”); the United States Department of 

Agriculture, United States Forest Service (“USFS”); the United States Department of the Interior, 

Bureau of Land Management (“BLM”) and the National Park Service (“NPS”); the United States 

Small Business Administration (“SBA”); and the Environmental Protection Agency (“EPA”), hereby 

files this opposition to the Notice of Debtors’ Designation of Claims Filed by the United States of 

America, the State of California and Adventist Health System as Unliquidated and Subject to 

Estimation under Section 502(c) of the Bankruptcy Code (the “Designation”) (Docket No. 4553).

1

BACKGROUND

Designated Claims Not Subject to the Estimation Proceeding Before the District Court

In the Designation, Debtors listed twenty claims filed by the United States. Of those, eight are 

Additional Wildfire Claims, i.e., “claims that do not arise from the Wildfires that are subject to the 

estimation proceedings before the District Court.” Designation at 9, lines 17-18. The wildfires 

underlying these eight Additional Wildfire Claims are El Portal, Railroad, and Murphy. Because these 

wildfires are not included in the definition of Wildfires in the Estimation Motion, the United States’ 

claims arising from them are not part of the estimation proceeding before the District Court. 

Accordingly, Debtors acknowledge that they are not seeking to estimate these Additional Wildfire

Claims in the estimation proceeding before the District Court. Id., line 19-22.

One additional claim, filed by the EPA and the Department of the Interior, is wholly unrelated to 

any wildfire and therefore, not subject to the estimation proceeding before the District Court as the 

Estimation Motion seeks only to estimate claims arising from the Wildfires specified therein. 

 1 Terms not otherwise defined herein shall have the meaning ascribed to them in the Designation.

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For ease of reference, these nine claims of the United States that the Debtors are not seeking to 

estimate are set forth, with claim numbers, on the attached Exhibit A -- Debtor Designated Claims of the 

United States Not Subject to Estimation Proceeding Before the District Court.

As the Debtors are not seeking to estimate the claims listed on Exhibit A, Designation at 9, the 

United States will not address whether those claims are unliquidated or otherwise subject to estimation 

under 11 U.S.C. § 502(c) and reserve all rights in that regard. And like the Debtors, the United States 

reserves all rights related to those claims’ allowance or disallowance and the determination of the 

amounts thereof.2

Eleven Remaining Designated Claims Subject to Estimation Proceeding

Before the District Court

Of the remaining eleven United States’ claims listed in the Designation, the Debtors listed the 

same claim twice – a BLM claim arising out of the Butte Fire. Designation at 4, lines 6-10. 

Accordingly, the Debtors have designated ten claims of the United States related to the Wildfires as 

unliquidated and subject to the estimation proceeding before the District Court. For ease of reference, 

these claims are set forth, with claim numbers, on the attached Exhibit B -- Debtor Designated Wildfire 

Claims of the United States Subject to Estimation Proceeding Before the District Court.

3

Of the ten claims listed on Exhibit B, the United States is not contesting the Debtors’ designation 

of five of those claims as unliquidated and subject to estimation in the estimation proceeding before the 

District Court but otherwise reserves all rights with respect to that proceeding as well as all rights related 

 2 In the Designation, Debtors purport to “reserve their rights to supplement” their list of claims. 

Designation at 10-11. Such reservation is ineffectual, as the Order provides no such right. Moreover, 

the trial in the estimation proceeding before the District Court starts only two months after this Court’s 

December 17 hearing on the Designation. What claims are part of that trial must be finalized and not 

subject to change based upon the Debtors’ purported reservation.

3 Each of the proofs of claim listed on Exhibit A and B are expressly incorporated into this 

opposition. Given the size of the proofs of claim and because PDFs of each can be easily downloaded 

from the official claims register on the claims agent’s website, the United States opted not file copies 

with this opposition.

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to those claims’ allowance or disallowance and the determination of the amounts thereof. Those five 

claims are listed in the below table.

Agency Claim No. Fire Amount

FEMA 59692 Camp $2,552,285,006.62

BLM 56756 Camp $7,721,234.36

BLM 63797 Butte $31,469,881.00

SBA 62342 North Bay Fires $11,641,027.004

SBA 86440 Camp $27,774,829.00

For the reasons set forth below, the United States opposes the Debtors’ designation of the remaining five 

claims listed on Exhibit B and maintains those claims are liquidated and therefore, not subject to 

estimation under 11 U.S.C. § 502(c). 

ARGUMENT

If a claim is neither contingent nor unliquidated, it is not subject to estimation under section 

502(c). In re Rhead, 179 B.R. 169, 172 (Bankr. D. Ariz. 1995) (citing In re Continental Airlines, 981 

F.2d 1450 (5th Cir. 1993)). The Court has already noted that wildfire related claims are not contingent, 

because the contingency, the fires, have already occurred. Hrg Transcript, August 27, 2019 Status 

Conference, at 126:20-21 (“And so I believe when a fire occurs, that’s the contingency.”).5 Debtors 

have asserted only that the United States’ wildfire claims are subject to estimation under section 

502(c) because they are unliquidated. Designation at 3, lines 12-14.

The Bankruptcy Code does not define the term liquidated, but Ninth Circuit law is clear: 

 4 This claim timely amended SBA’s previously filed Claim No. 86438, which is the claim 

Debtors listed in their designation.

5 The Court’s belief properly reflects Ninth Circuit authority. Nicholes v. Johnny Appleseed (In 

re Nicholes), 184 B.R. 82, 88 (B.A.P. 9th Cir. 1995) (section 109(e) case); In re Audre, Inc., 202 B.R. 

490, 492 (Bankr. S.D. Cal. 1996) (applying Nicholes analysis in interpreting contingent under section 

502(c)).

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“whether a debt is liquidated turns on whether it is subject to ready determination and precision in 

computation of the amount due.” Fostvedt v. Dow (In re Fostvedt), 823 F.2d 305, 306 (9th Cir. 1987) 

(citations omitted) (section 109(e) case). Moreover, a debt is liquidated even if liability has not been 

adjudicated or it is disputed. Slack v. Wilshire Ins. Co. (In re Slack), 187 F.3d 1070, 1075 (9th Cir. 

1999) (section 109(e) case). Courts have used the same definition from section 109(e) decisions in 

interpreting the term unliquidated in section 502(c). In re Audre, Inc., 202 B.R. at 492; In re Kennan, 

201 B.R. 263, 265 (Bankr. S.D. Cal. 1996).

Liquidated United States’ Claims 

NPS Fire Suppression Claims

Of the remaining five designated claims on Exhibit B, three are for fire suppression costs as set 

forth below. They aggregate $145,421.20.

Agency Claim No. Fire Amount

NPS 59682 Atlas $9,368.42

NPS 63744 Butte $33,749.97

NPS 65522 Tubbs $102,302.81

Each of these claims are for specific amounts NPS incurred and spent in suppressing the specified

wildfire. The amounts reflect two categories of costs – personnel and travel. Attached to the claims is 

supporting documentation for those costs such as fire fighter time reports, hotel receipts, credit card 

statements, fuel receipt and mileage logs, and gas station receipts. Simply by looking at this 

documentation and the amounts reflected thereon, the total amount of each claim is “subject to ready 

determination and precision in computation of the amount due.” These three claims are clearly 

liquidated and not subject to estimation.

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FEMA Claims

Of the remaining five designated claims on Exhibit B, two are FEMA claims for the recovery of 

disaster assistance provided pursuant to the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Assistance and Emergency 

Relief Act, 42 U.S.C.§ 5121 et seq., as set forth below. The two claims aggregate $1,388,185,764.03.

Agency Claim No. Fire Amount

FEMA 59734 North Bay Fires $1,227,587,473.81

FEMA 59783 Butte $160,598,290.22

As each claim makes clear, the claims asserted are for specific amounts falling within three 

categories: (1) public assistance, both direct and financial, to the State of California, local governments, 

tribal governments and certain non-profits for debris removal, emergency protective measures, and the 

permanent repair/replacement of damaged infrastructure;6 (2) individual assistance, both direct and 

financial, to individuals and households;

7 and (3) FEMA’s direct costs incurred in administering these 

two assistance programs. 

The tables in the attachment to the proofs of claim detail the different components of assistance 

provided under the three above categories. For example, public assistance is broken down into (1) 

financial assistance, which is then broken down between counties and the state, and (2) direct assistance, 

which is then broken down between mission assignment and FEMA commodities. As the claims 

 6 Direct assistance is different from financial assistance in that the federal government itself 

provides the assistance as opposed to reimbursing the state or a local government the federal share of 

eligible work performed by the state or local government. A prime example of direct assistance is 

FEMA, at the request of the State of California, tasking the Army Corps of Engineers with performing 

private property debris removal after the Tubbs Fire.

7 An example of direct individual assistance is FEMA providing temporary housing, e.g., mobile 

homes and trailers, whereas financial individual assistance is FEMA providing funds or vouchers for 

individuals to use in securing temporary housing.

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explain, each of these components of public assistance represents funds that FEMA has recorded as 

federal obligations in either the (1) Emergency Management Mission Integrated Environment (EMMIE) 

for financial public assistance, or (2) the Enterprise Coordination & Approvals Processing System 

(eCaps) for direct public assistance, for the fires identified in the proofs of claim. Both are electronic 

systems that tie directly into the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IMFIS) where 

all FEMA obligations are posted for financial reporting purposes. Funds are recorded in EMMIE as 

federal obligations only after FEMA has approved a state’s or local government’s Project Worksheet for 

specified eligible work. Similarly, FEMA records funds as federal obligations in eCaps only after the 

federal government has either (1) approved assistance for a state or local government and tasked another 

federal agency to perform the work or (2) provided commodities or equipment to a state or local 

government. Likewise, individual assistance and administrative costs are broken down in to subcomponents and further sub-components reflecting amounts recorded in IMFIS and actually obligated 

and expended in response to the fires identified in the proofs of claim.

Accordingly, like the NPS claims, the amounts of FEMA’s claims are subject to ready 

determination and precise computation and are therefore, liquidated.

CONCLUSION

For all of the foregoing reasons, the Court should rule that NPS Claim Nos. 59682, 63744, and 

65522, and FEMA Claim Nos. 59734 and 59783, are liquidated and not subject to estimation.

Date: November 15, 2019 Respectfully submitted,

JOSEPH H. HUNT

Assistant Attorney General

DAVID L. ANDERSON (CABN 149604)

United States Attorney

ROBIN M. WALL (CABN 235690)

Assistant United States Attorney

/s/ Matthew J. Troy

RUTH A. HARVEY

Director

KIRK MANHARDT

Deputy Director

MATTHEW J. TROY

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Senior Trial Counsel

Attorneys for United States

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I hereby certify that on November 15, 2019, I electronically filed the foregoing Opposition with the 

Clerk of the Court by using the CM/ECF system, which will send a notice of electronic filing to all CM/ECF 

participants.

/s/ Matthew J. Troy

Matthew J. Troy

Senior Trial Counsel 

Attorney for United States

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EXHIBIT A

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Debtor Designated Claims of the United States Not Subject to Estimation Proceeding Before the District Court

Agency Claim No. Fire Amount

U.S Department of 

Agriculture, Forest 

Service (“USFS”)

59662 El Portal $9,895,433.64

USFS 59712 El Portal $19,466,029.49

USFS 59664 Railroad $21,029,700.59

USFS 63837 Railroad $76,554,779.95

U.S Department of 

the Interior, Bureau 

of Land Management 

62632 Murphy $81,167.00

U.S. Department of 

the Interior, National 

Park Service 

(“NPS”)

63092 El Portal $3,763,144.49

NPS 63748 Murphy $14,170.15

NPS 63756 Railroad $90,415.07

EPA/Interior 64169 N/A $0.00

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EXHIBIT B

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Debtor Designated Wildfire Claims of the United States Subject to Estimation Proceeding Before the District Court

Agency Claim No. Fire Amount

FEMA 59692 Camp $2,552,285,006.62

FEMA 59734 North Bay Fires $1,227,587,473.81

FEMA 59783 Butte $160,598,290.22

U.S Department of 

the Interior, Bureau 

of Land 

Management 

(“BLM”)

56756 Camp $7,721,234.36

BLM 63797 Butte $31,469,881.001

U.S. Department of 

the Interior, National 

Park Service 

(“NPS”)

59682 Atlas $9,368.42

NPS 63744 Butte $33,749.97

NPS 65522 Tubbs $102,302.81

U.S. Small Business 

Administration 

(“SBA”)

62342 North Bay Fires $11,641,027.002

SBA 86440 Camp $27,774,829.00

 1 Without using claim numbers, the Designation listed this claim twice in the exact same amount 

for the same fire. BLM filed, however, only one claim in this amount – Claim No. 63797.

2

 This claim timely amended SBA’s previously filed Claim No. 86438.

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