This transcript of the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health, Teleconference Board 

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1

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL

+ + + + +

NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR OCCUPATIONAL

SAFETY AND HEALTH

+ + + + +

ADVISORY BOARD ON RADIATION AND

WORKER HEALTH

+ + + + +

93rd MEETING

+ + + + +

THURSDAY

SEPTEMBER 5, 2013

+ + + + +

The meeting convened telephonically 

at 11:00 a.m., Eastern Daylight Time, James M. 

Melius, Chairman, presiding.

PRESENT:

JAMES M. MELIUS, Chairman

HENRY ANDERSON, Member

JOSIE BEACH, Member

BRADLEY P. CLAWSON, Member

R. WILLIAM FIELD, Members

RICHARD LEMEN, Member

JAMES E. LOCKEY, Member

WANDA I. MUNN, Member

DAVID B. RICHARDSON, Member

GENEVIEVE S. ROESSLER, Member

PHILLIP SCHOFIELD, Member

LORETTA R. VALERIO, Member

PAUL L. ZIEMER, Member

TED KATZ, Designated Federal Official
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REGISTERED AND/OR PUBLIC COMMENT PARTICIPANTS2

ADAMS, NANCY, NIOSH Contractor

AL-NABULSI, ISAF, DOE

BARRIE, TERRIE

BEHLING, HANS, SC&A

CARROLL, STEPHANIE

FITZGERALD, JOE, SC&A

HARTSFIELD, DEKEELY, HHS

HINNEFELD, STU, DCAS

KOTSCH, JEFF, DOL

LIN, JENNY, HHS

MAKHIJANI, ARJUN, SC&A

MARSCHKE, STEVE, SC&A

MAURO, JOHN, SC&A

NETON, JIM, DCAS

RUTHERFORD, LAVON, DCAS

STIVER, JOHN, SC&A
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3

T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S

PAGE

Roll Call

by Mr. Katz, DFO ..................... 4

Welcome

by Dr. Melius, Chair ................. 8

Recording Absent Members Votes from July Meeting

by Mr. Katz, DFO ..................... 9

Recording Board Letters for SEC Recommendations 

from July Meeting: Fernald (2 letters) and 

Pantex "non-add" Class

by Dr. Melius, Chair ................ 11

Special Exposure Cohort (SEC) Petition Status 

Update

by Mr. Rutherford, DCAS ............. 36

Updates from Work Groups and Subcommittees (as 

necessary)

by WG/SC Chairs ..................... 38

Board Correspondence

by Dr. Melius, Chair ................ 46

Plans for the October 2013 Board Meeting

by All Members ...................... 53
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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 4

2 (11:01 a.m.)

3 MR. KATZ: This is the Advisory Board 

on Radiation and Worker Health, it is the 93rd 4

5 meeting, let's begin with roll call, and to deal 

6 with conflicts of interest. We have one item on 

7 the agenda for which conflicts are relevant.

8 And that is a new task, a possible 

9 tasking of SC&A of new procedure reviews. And

10 one of those procedure reviews addresses X-10. 

11 And there are three Board Members who have 

12 conflicts with X-10. And that is Drs. Lockey, 

13 Poston and Ziemer.

14 So I will just say up front here. We 

15 have conflicts for that, and they will recuse 

16 themselves from discussion of the tasking of 

17 that item.

18 But otherwise we have no conflict 

19 issues. Now, let me run through roll call. And 

20 I already have Dr. Melius. Let me just go 

21 alphabetically for the rest.

22 (Roll Call)
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1 MR. KATZ: Okay. At least we have 5

2 a quorum then if the others don't show. Let me 

3 just go on then, roll call for the rest of the 

4 groups.

5 (Roll Call)

6 MR. KATZ: Very good. And we now 

7 have two more Board Members. So that was 

8 Richardson and Anderson. And let me just check. 

9 So, Dr. Poston, are you on the line now? Okay. 

10 Very good.

11 The agenda for the meeting is posted 

12 on the web site, under the Board section under 

13 meetings page for today's date. So anyone who 

14 wants to follow along with the agenda, that's 

15 there. There are no materials posted 

16 associated with that. 

17 Well, actually, there might be. 

18 There might be the procedures that we're 

19 considering tasking today. Those may be posted 

20 there. I haven't checked. And let me just, 

21 before we go on and I turn it over to Dr. Melius, 

22 Mr. Hinnefeld wants to make an introduction of 
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1 new staff. 6

2 MR. HINNEFELD: Yes. Thanks, Ted. 

3 If you were listening carefully you heard 

4 probably a new name during the other federal 

5 staff introductions.

6 That was from DeKeely Hartsfield, 

7 who is beginning a one year detail with the 

8 Office of General Counsel, and will be providing 

9 legal assistance to the program during that 

10 time.

11 This is in response to a detail that 

12 Jenny Lin is embarking on, which I believe is 

13 actually an active duty mobilization, so to 

14 speak, or call up. And she'll be working at the 

15 Pentagon for a year, starting October 1st.

16 And so, to provide us legal 

17 assistance DeKeely has agreed, and has been 

18 detailed to the Office of General Counsel to 

19 perform service.

20 DeKeely came to NIOSH in 2004 as a 

21 Presidential management fellow. And has worked 

22 on a number of policy and budget issues for 
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1 NIOSH, including served as the Special Assistant 7

2 to the Director in administering the World Trade 

3 Center program.

4 She's fairly recently, not terribly 

5 recently, completed law school. And during and 

6 after law school she worked with the OGC on 

7 things like FOIA, HIPAA, and several other 

8 matters.

9 And most recently she completed a 

10 detail in the Office of Management and Budget, 

11 which is, of course, in the Executive Office of 

12 the President, dealing with appropriations and 

13 policy issues.

14 So she'll be supporting us from the 

15 part of the NIOSH legal team, which is a part of, 

16 of course, HHS OGC, for the coming year it looks. 

17 And then who knows after that

18 I expect you'll all get a chance to 

19 meet DeKeely at the Board Meetings during the 

20 year. I think she'll probably attend most or 

21 all of the Board Meetings, in person Board 

22 Meetings during the year.
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1 And may likely attend some Work 8

2 Group meetings as well. So I want to thank

3 DeKeely for joining the team, and welcome her to 

4 the program.

5 MS. HARTSFIELD: Okay. Thank you.

6 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: And this is Jim 

7 Melius. I'll just add, I've worked with DeKeely 

8 for a number of years on the World Trade Center. 

9 So welcome. And I know she'll be a big help.

10 And I really thank Jenny for all of 

11 her work with us, and wish her luck on her detail, 

12 or whatever it's called, active duty or 

13 whatever, or drafted, whatever's happened to 

14 you.

15 MS. LIN: Yes, active duty is 

16 deployment.

17 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Oh, okay. Well 

18 sound good. I think I know a little bit about 

19 it. And it sounds exciting also, from what I 

20 understand. So anyway, very good. Ted, I 

21 think you're up for recording absent folks, 

22 absent Member folks. 
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1 MR. KATZ: Right. Thank you. 9

2 Okay, so at our Idaho Falls meeting there were 

3 a number of members who were absent for some of 

4 the votes, Lemen, Griffon and Richardson. And 

5 all of their votes came in by August 7th.

6 So let me just, I'm going to report 

7 out the votes now. Several of the actions were 

8 taken, and they remain unanimous. But for 

9 several of these votes, three of them, the last 

10 three, we didn't actually read into the record 

11 the final recommendation.

12 So Dr. Melius will take care of that 

13 after I cover how the votes went. So the first 

14 two, which were read into the record, one was 

15 Baker Brothers.

16 And that was, the Board already 

17 voted. So unanimously 16 to zero in support of 

18 the NIOSH recommendation to deny adding in 

19 another Class at Baker Brothers for the 

20 remaining period, which was 45 to 96.

21 And then Pantex, that was also, the 

22 results on vote unanimous. One Member recused, 
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1 Ms. Valerio. And that was to add a Class from 10

2 84 to 91. So that's done.

3 And those motions were read into the 

4 record by Dr. Melius during the Board Meeting. 

5 So the remaining three need to be read into. But 

6 let me just cover them quickly.

7 The first is also a Pantex vote for 

8 the early period. That's contract 51 to 57. 

9 And the Board voted unanimously in support of the 

10 NIOSH recommendation to not add a Class for that 

11 period.

12 For Fernald there were two votes, 

13 one also -- oh, and Pantex, Valerio recused, 

14 right. So, Fernald two votes. These were 

15 unanimous as well, with Lockey recused for both 

16 of them.

17 The first Fernald was to add a Class 

18 from 51 to 83. In effect, for subcontractors. 

19 But Dr. Melius will explain that further, how 

20 that recommendation is written.

21 And the second vote, also unanimous, 

22 was to add a Class from 54 to 67, all employees. 
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1 And Dr. Melius will read that too. So that 11

2 covers the votes for Idaho.

3 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Thank 

4 you, Ted. And I will now proceed with the three 

5 letters. And I'll do, the one Fernald one is a 

6 little more complicated. I'll save that for 

7 last.

8 And we may want to have a little 

9 explanation. And Stu may want to weigh in on 

10 that also. So giving you a heads up, Stu. So 

11 the first letter is the Pantex one.

12 The Advisory Board on Radiation and 

13 Worker Health, the Board, has evaluated Special 

14 Exposure Cohort, SEC petition 0068 concerning 

15 workers at the Pantex Plant, in Amarillo, Texas, 

16 under the statutory requirements established by 

17 the Energy Employees Occupational Illness 

18 Compensation Program Act of 2000, incorporated 

19 to 42 CFR, Section 83.13.

20 The National Institute for 

21 Occupational Safety and Health, NIOSH, has 

22 recommended that individual dose 
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1 reconstructions are feasible for all employees 12

2 of the Department of Energy, it's predecessor 

3 agency, for their contractors and 

4 subcontractors who worked at the Pantex Plant in 

5 Amarillo, Texas, from January 1st 1951 through 

6 December 31st 1957.

7 NIOSH found they had access to 

8 adequate exposure monitoring, other information 

9 necessary to do individual dose reconstruction, 

10 with sufficient accuracy for members of this 

11 group. And therefore, a Class covering this 

12 group should not be added to the SEC.

13 The Board concurs with this 

14 determination. Based on these considerations 

15 and discussions at the July 16th and 17th, 2013 

16 Board Meeting, held in Idaho Falls, Idaho. The 

17 Board recommends that this Class not be added to 

18 the SEC.

19 Enclosed is documentation of the 

20 Board Meeting where this SEC Class was 

21 discussed. Documentation includes copies of 

22 the petition, the NIOSH review thereof, and 
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1 related materials. If any of these items aren't 13

2 available at this time. They will follow 

3 shortly.

4 So that was basically, completed our 

5 work on Pantex SEC. So as you may recall, the 

6 basis for that, at least as I recall was, 

7 essentially there were very little exposures 

8 during that early time period. And we completed 

9 the other part to the SEC there.

10 The second letter is the letter on 

11 Fernald, one of the two. It reads, the Advisory 

12 Board on Radiation Worker Health, the Board, has 

13 evaluated Special Exposure Cohort Petition 0046 

14 concerning workers at the Feed Materials 

15 Production Center, FMPC, in Fernald, Ohio, under 

16 the statutory requirements established by the 

17 Energy Employee Occupational Illness 

18 Compensation Program Act of 2000, incorporated 

19 into 42 CFR, Section 83.13.

20 The Board respectfully recommends 

21 that SEC status be accorded to all employees of 

22 the Department of Energy, it's predecessor 
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1 agencies and their contractors and 14

2 subcontractors, who worked at the Feed Materials 

3 Production Center in Fernald, Ohio, from January 

4 1st 1954 through December 31st, 1967, or a number 

5 of work days aggregating at least 250 work days 

6 occurring solely under this employment, or in 

7 combination with work days within the parameters 

8 established for one or more other Classes of 

9 employees included in the Special Exposure 

10 Cohort.

11 This recommendation is based on the 

12 following factors: Workers at this facility 

13 during the time period in question were involved 

14 in operations related to nuclear weapons 

15 production.

16 The Board's review of available 

17 monitoring data, as well as available process 

18 and source term information for this facility, 

19 found that NIOSH lacked the sufficient 

20 information to allow it to estimate with 

21 sufficient accuracy the potential internal 

22 doses from exposures to thorium, which employees 
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1 working at this facility may have been 15

2 subjected.

3 The Board determined that health may 

4 have been endangered for these FMPC employees 

5 during the time period in question. Based on 

6 these considerations and discussion at the July 

7 16th and 17, 2013 Board Meeting, held in Idaho 

8 Falls, the Board recommends that this Class be 

9 added to the SEC.

10 Enclosed is the documentation from 

11 the Board Meetings where this SEC Class was 

12 discussed. Documentation includes copies of 

13 the petition, the NIOSH review thereof, and 

14 related materials. So if any of these items are 

15 unavailable at this time, they will follow 

16 shortly.

17 So that's the first. The last 

18 letter is the other part of the Fernald Class 

19 that we added at the last meeting. And if you 

20 recall, we circulated one letter.

21 And then based on some discussions 

22 with NIOSH, and NIOSH's discussions with the 
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1 Department of Labor, we made some changes to the 16

2 Class Definition.

3 I think these are, you know, 

4 consistent with what we had voted for, and had 

5 decided at the Board Meeting. It just made it 

6 much more direct, and easier to administer this.

7 And I also circulated this modified 

8 letter, or something pretty close to it, to 

9 everyone about a week after the last letter. So 

10 you all should have received this letter on time. 

11 So let me read it into the record.

12 The Advisory Board on Radiation 

13 Worker Health, the Board, has evaluated Special 

14 Exposure Cohort Petition 0046 concerning 

15 workers at the Feed Materials Production Center, 

16 FMPC, in Fernald, Ohio, under the statutory 

17 requirements established by the Energy Employee 

18 Occupational Illness Compensation Program Act 

19 of 2000, incorporated into 42 CFR, Section 

20 83.13.

21 The Board respectfully recommends 

22 that SEC status be accorded to all employees of 
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1 the Feed Materials Production Center in Fernald, 17

2 Ohio, who were not employed by National Lead of 

3 Ohio, NLO, or the Department of Energy or its 

4 predecessor agencies who worked at FMPC from 

5 January 1st 1951 through December 31st, 1983, or 

6 a number of work days aggregating at least 250 

7 work days solely under this employment, or in 

8 combination with work days when the parameters 

9 established for one or more other Classes of 

10 employees included in the Special Exposure 

11 Cohort.

12 This recommendation is based on the 

13 following factors: Workers at this facility 

14 during the time period in question were involved 

15 in operations related to nuclear weapons 

16 production.

17 The Board's review of available 

18 monitoring data, as well as available process 

19 and source term information for this facility 

20 found that NIOSH lacked the sufficient 

21 information to allow it to estimate with 

22 sufficient accuracy potential internal doses 
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1 from exposure to uranium, which employees at 18

2 FMPC working at this facility may have been 

3 subjected.

4 The Board also determined that 

5 health may have been endangered for these FMPC 

6 employees during the time period in question. 

7 Based on these considerations and discussion at 

8 the July 16th and 17th, 2013 Board Meeting held 

9 in Idaho Falls, the Board recommends that this 

10 Class be added to the SEC.

11 Enclosed is the documentation from 

12 the Board Meetings where this SEC Class was 

13 discussed. The documentation includes copies 

14 of the petition, the NIOSH review thereof, and 

15 related materials. If any of these items are 

16 unavailable at this time, they will follow 

17 shortly.

18 As you may remember, the initial 

19 version of this letter was in our, in what we had 

20 discussed and decided at the Board Meeting was, 

21 it was for basically subcontractor employees.

22 So we're trying to capture where 
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1 those that, particularly construction workers 19

2 that had come on to the facility and been 

3 exposed, for which there was not adequate 

4 monitoring information on them.

5 So the problem was that was, the way 

6 it was worded was confusing, and could have been 

7 difficult to administer. And there was a 

8 changeover in terms of some of the contractors 

9 involved also early on.

10 So basically did the definition by 

11 exclusion, rather than, you know inclusion here. 

12 And, I don't know, Stu, do you want to add 

13 anything to that?

14 MR. HINNEFELD: Well I can usually 

15 say something. During the, as Jim said, during 

16 the discussion of Fernald we talked mainly about 

17 subcontractors and their exposure potentials.

18 And how they may not be similar 

19 enough to the prime contractors in order for the 

20 co-worker data set, which is all prime 

21 contractors, to be sufficiently accurate for the 

22 subcontractors. So that was the nature of the 
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1 discussion. 20

2 And we did look at a number of 

3 claims. And we asked DOL to look at a number of 

4 claims. And both DOL and we concluded that 

5 certainly during the years that we're talking 

6 about, it's pretty clear from the claim files 

7 whether someone worked for NLO, the prime 

8 contractor, or for some other employer.

9 It looks like, you can tell that. 

10 So when we sent the Class Definition of 

11 subcontractors to DOL, they responded that it 

12 might be programmatic, because apparently they 

13 have a defined set of companies that they know 

14 had subcontracts with, at the Fernald Site.

15 And that apparently there is a 

16 category of claimants who have verified 

17 employment, in some fashion, who don't fall into 

18 one of those subcontracts, or an employer of NLO.

19 And so they were afraid that there 

20 might be some people who would not be swept in 

21 to a subcontractor Class. So based on that we 

22 proposed defining the Class by exclusion.
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1 And it also addresses another issue 21

2 that actually we didn't think about, I don't 

3 think. Or I hadn't thought about it until we 

4 started talking about it. Is that the original 

5 constructor of the Fernald Plant was probably 

6 not a subcontractor, it was probably a direct 

7 contractor to the DOE.

8 And so even though they would have 

9 been building, and they didn't just build a clean 

10 building and then turn it over. It's pretty 

11 clear that some of the building continued in some 

12 buildings.

13 And when a portion of a building 

14 would be built radiological activities would 

15 start. And the constructor would still be 

16 building another part of the building.

17 And it didn't seem to be a very, a 

18 real clear exclusion of radiological materials 

19 from places where there were builders. So based 

20 on all those things we felt that the exclusion 

21 definition would more likely capture everybody 

22 we wanted to capture.
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1 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Thank you, Stu. 22

2 Anybody have any questions on that? I know, 

3 Paul, you had -- Paul had questions initially.

4 MEMBER ZIEMER: Yes. I've been 

5 trying to understand the sort of double negative 

6 way of understanding this. And I'm just, I'm 

7 okay with that. As long as DOL is okay with it. 

8 And I assume they are now. I do have one other 

9 question.

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.

11 MEMBER ZIEMER: And that is -- And 

12 maybe you can just remind me why on this 

13 particular one we mention only the uranium, and 

14 not the thorium?

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I believe -- 

16 Someone can correct me. But my recollection is 

17 that it was, that was the co-worker model.

18 MR. HINNEFELD: Yes, this is Stu. 

19 There were essentially two technical issues that 

20 spanned different sets of years. And the 

21 uranium co-worker model was the one that spanned 

22 '51 to '83.
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1 MEMBER ZIEMER: Oh, thank you. 23

2 That answered the question. I couldn't 

3 remember the reason for it. Yes. 

4 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Anybody else with 

5 questions? Okay, good. Next item on our 

6 agenda is tasking SC&A procedure reviews. And 

7 Ted circulated the three reviews. It came out 

8 of the Procedures Subcommittee, and some 

9 discussions.

10 There was originally a somewhat 

11 longer list. And given the way the contract is 

12 set up, the SC&A contract, and they're scheduled 

13 to end at the end of December. And so trying to 

14 task only items that would fit within that time 

15 period.

16 So we have three items here that are 

17 for discussion. The other two that dropped off 

18 were related to the chronic lymphocytic leukemia 

19 dose reconstruction issues.

20 And we will presume that we will 

21 eventually get to those. But it just, for 

22 administrative reasons it's difficult to do that 
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1 now. So, I don't know, Wanda, do you have 24

2 anything to add to this?

3 MEMBER LEMEN: This is Dick Lemen, 

4 joining your conference call.

5 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Welcome, Dr. 

6 Lemen.

7 MEMBER LEMEN: Thank you.

8 MEMBER MUNN: Can you hear me all 

9 right?

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, we can.

11 MEMBER MUNN: All right. Sounded 

12 strange to my ear. We did discuss these items 

13 in the Subcommittee. And I can't imagine that 

14 we had any additional information, unless 

15 someone has some specific question.

16 We have vetted these, and we've 

17 discussed them. And these are the three items 

18 out of the slide that have shaken down to the 

19 Board's decision making process. And we 

20 recommend them to you. We've agreed with SC&A 

21 that these are appropriate.

22 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. I think the 
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1 one -- I sort of had a question. And then Stu 25

2 also raised an issue, which I agree with the 

3 concern. That's on the internal dosimetry 

4 co-worker for S-10.

5 One is, we have a Work Group that's 

6 dealing with X-10. And I'm not sure where they 

7 stand now, in terms -- certainly we need to 

8 coordinate with them.

9 And then secondly, we also have 

10 another -- the SEC evaluation Work Group that I 

11 chair is working with NIOSH on those evaluations 

12 of co-worker issue. And I'm not sure what our 

13 schedule will be.

14 We have a meeting scheduled for the 

15 end of this month. But it -- I'm not sure if SC&A 

16 would be in sort of position to do much with the, 

17 or do something appropriate with the co-worker, 

18 evaluation of co-worker model until, for X-10, 

19 until we've made some more progress on sort of 

20 our overall approach to evaluating co-worker

21 models.

22 I'm going to hate to have them spend 
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1 time doing the evaluation, and then sort of 26

2 change the parameters or focus. Now, it may not 

3 do that, you know, it's hard to predict. But it 

4 is an issue on that, that I think we need to keep 

5 in mind.

6 MEMBER MUNN: Reasonable concern.

7 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.

8 MEMBER MUNN: When we have more than 

9 one group working on material that overlaps on 

10 issues. And we can get into that issue very 

11 easily. I think it's amazing we've managed to 

12 avoid it so far.

13 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Oh, yes, we do 

14 pretty well. You're right, Wanda.

15 MEMBER ROESSLER: Yes, this is Gen, 

16 speaking for the Oak Ridge ORNL Work Group. But 

17 certainly this needs to be tasked to SC&A. But 

18 I agree with you, Jim. I think that would be --

19 we'd really need to get the general guidelines 

20 on co-worker data.

21 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. So if we 

22 didn't task that one at this point, and I'm not 
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1 sure of all the details on this one. So whether 27

2 there are parts of that that could be started 

3 beforehand or not. Or whether it's better to 

4 wait. But I suspect it's better to wait. So 

5 that would just leave the other two.

6 MR. STIVER: Jim, this is John 

7 Stiver. If I can just weigh in for a minute? 

8 There are, if I could just generally give you a 

9 back story. We did review Revision 0 of the 

10 TIB-34 several years ago. And there are still 

11 a couple of open issues, open findings.

12 So that first round is still in play. 

13 And looking at Revision 1 there were some 

14 statistical manipulations that were done. But 

15 so far as I can see, there's nothing in that, at 

16 least in Revision 1, that relates back to Report 

17 53, in terms of the open methodology or 

18 stratification.

19 So it would probably be -- now, I 

20 don't know, maybe Gen or Stu can weigh in on this. 

21 But I don't know if there's another revision 

22 planned, you know.
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1 I presume that once a Report 53 28

2 emerges in whatever form it does, and that would 

3 be applicable to all co-worker models. So there 

4 is that issue. But I think as far as Revision 

5 1 goes, it doesn't really come into play much.

6 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, Stu, do you 

7 have any, or Jim?

8 MR. HINNEFELD: Well I'll defer to 

9 Jim on that one.

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay.

11 DR. NETON: This is Jim. I just had 

12 to get off mute.

13 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay.

14 DR. NETON: You know, what John said 

15 makes some sense to me I guess. I mean they 

16 could do that without treading into the general 

17 issues that we're talking about at the end of 

18 September.

19 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. And I 

20 think with, you know, sort of, you know, maybe 

21 one way of handling it is, okay, do those issues. 

22 Just sort of concentrate on those issues.
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1 And then once the Board has decided 29

2 on some, and NIOSH get on some guidelines on 

3 co-worker models in general, and stratification 

4 issues like that, then that, you know, continue 

5 the review. Or, you know, take up that part of 

6 the review with a separate task, if that's 

7 appropriate. Does that make sense to --

8 DR. NETON: Sounds good to me. I 

9 mean, they've done this before in like a focus 

10 type review.

11 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.

12 MR. STIVER: That makes sense to me. 

13 This is Stiver.

14 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. So in that 

15 case we would be tasking SC&A to do a, sort of 

16 a focused review on OTIB-34, as we've just 

17 discussed, on the X-10. Plus a review on 

18 Revision 1 of OTIB-12, which would be internal, 

19 external dosimetry target organs for lymphatic 

20 hematopoietic cancers.

21 And a review on OTIB-83, dissolution 

22 models for insoluble plutonium U-238. So that 
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1 would be essentially, leave a recommendation 30

2 from the Procedures Work Group. Is this their 

3 -- I don't know if you made this formally, or if 

4 this was --

5 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, this was a 

6 recommendation from --

7 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay.

8 MEMBER MUNN: This was an agreement 

9 from the Subcommittee. Yes, following 

10 discussion. One correction, your oral 

11 description of OTIB-83 said plutonium U-238.

12 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Oh, okay.

13 MEMBER MUNN: It's plutonium 238, 

14 specifically.

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: That U-238 neuron 

16 just fired automatically.

17 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, I know. It has 

18 a tendency to roll off the tongue.

19 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, just --

20 MEMBER MUNN: It's plutonium 238. 

21 Dissolution models for insoluble plutonium 238.

22 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay.
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1 DR. NETON: Dr. Melius? 31

2 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.

3 DR. NETON: This is Jim. I had one 

4 question on the review of TIB-12. TIB-12 had 

5 been reviewed as part of PER-009. We have one 

6 in particular.

7 And I was wondering what the actual 

8 difference there would be in this review of 

9 TIB-12, versus what we've done in the review of 

10 PER-009, which incorporated a review of TIB-12? 

11 That question is for SC&A.

12 MR. STIVER: Yes. I was just 

13 looking at the Board Review System. And it 

14 helps to look through some of the previous 

15 transcripts.

16 And Jim is right. The version of 

17 TIB-12 that we would be tasked to review has, in 

18 fact, been reviewed under the umbrella of 

19 PER-009.

20 And there was, actually I believe in 

21 April of 2008 almost an entire Procedures 

22 Subcommittee meeting was dedicated to 
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1 discussing the two issues, which were 32

2 subsequently closed in 2011, January of 2011 

3 meeting.

4 So I don't, based on my review, I 

5 don't see that there's really much to be gained 

6 by doing a second review. But I'm not usually 

7 in a position to turn down work. But I think in 

8 this case, I don't think we really, it would be 

9 in our interest to do that.

10 MEMBER MUNN: It's true. We've 

11 spent a great deal of time already on these 

12 issues.

13 DR. BEHLING: This is Hans Behling. 

14 I kind of joined you late. And I just want to 

15 make a comment here. I think the main issue on 

16 the lymphoma PER-009 was one issue that we 

17 decided we weren't going to address.

18 And that is the variability of 

19 smoking, as it pertains to the lymphoma issue. 

20 And I think it was, if I recall, decided that this 

21 would require a new committee that would have to 

22 obviously go through a lot of work to get to the 
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1 point where they could offer a profound opinion 33

2 on the issue of how smoking would affect the 

3 lymphoma issue.

4 And I think we dismissed it. And 

5 then I think, as far as I'm concerned, all of the 

6 other issues were resolved. And I'm not sure. 

7 I agree with John Stiver that there's really 

8 nothing for us to do at this point. 

9 MEMBER MUNN: Well we were very 

10 clear on the Subcommittee that taking up the 

11 issue of smoking contributions to the health of 

12 our workers and co-workers was far beyond the 

13 purview of our Subcommittee.

14 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: So we're, if I 

15 understand correctly, we're -- the motion would 

16 now be for SC&A to review, a focused review on 

17 internal dosimetry co-worker data for X-10, and 

18 a review of OTIB-83, dissolution models for 

19 insoluble plutonium 238. I controlled my 

20 neuron there.

21 MEMBER MUNN: Very good.

22 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.
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1 MEMBER MUNN: That's my 34

2 understanding of --

3 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay.

4 MEMBER MUNN: -- the recommendation 

5 so far.

6 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: That's a 

7 recommendation/motion from the Subcommittee.

8 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

9 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: And I guess, I 

10 don't think we need to call. Everybody in 

11 favor, say aye.

12 (Chorus of Ayes)

13 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Anyone opposed?

14 MEMBER ZIEMER: Just for clarity, 

15 you know, this is nay or aye. I vote in favor 

16 of 083. But I have to abstain on the other one, 

17 because I'm recused. I think some others may be 

18 too.

19 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. Thanks for 

20 -- we forgot, from the beginning of the meeting. 

21 So I think we consider them as two separate 

22 motions, with --
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1 MEMBER ZIEMER: With appropriate 35

2 recusals.

3 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, that would 

4 be fine. Is that okay, Ted?

5 MR. KATZ: Yes. This is fine. 

6 There are no dissenting votes, in any case.

7 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, very 

8 straightforward, yes.

9 MR. KATZ: Right.

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay, very good. 

11 And it's LaVon Rutherford.

12 MR. RUTHERFORD: Thanks.

13 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I hope everyone 

14 has their coffee and a comfortable chair for this 

15 presentation.

16 MR. RUTHERFORD: Actually, this is 

17 going to be a pretty short presentation. I'm 

18 going to give the SEC update, basically what we 

19 plan to discuss at the October Board Meeting.

20 So for the October meeting we will 

21 be presenting an 84.14 SEC evaluation for Sandia 

22 National Lab. And that's Livermore. The 
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1 evaluation is in internal review, and is on 36

2 schedule to be sent to the Advisory Board late 

3 this month.

4 We will also be presenting a revised 

5 Rocky Flats Evaluation Report and 

6 recommendation. The report will include our 

7 evaluation of neptunium and uranium 238. The 

8 report will not be out until about two weeks 

9 prior to the October meeting.

10 But we will be presenting a summary 

11 of the Evaluation Report, basically what the 

12 Evaluation Report will say and why, to the Work 

13 Group next week at the Rocky Flats Work Group 

14 meeting.

15 We had hoped to have the Oak Ridge 

16 National Lab addendum ready for the meeting. 

17 But just due to this, so many radionuclides 

18 involved with this evaluation, we just couldn't 

19 quite get through it all.

20 And so the addendum is not going to 

21 ready until later on this year. But it will be 

22 ready for the January meeting. We will also be 
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1 presenting at the January meeting the Kansas 37

2 City Plant Evaluation Report. And that's an 

3 83.13.

4 In addition we have a, we should have 

5 the Nuclear Metals Incorporated addendum 

6 completed for that Board Meeting as well. So 

7 again, the October meeting, we'll just be 

8 presenting the Sandia National Lab, Livermore 

9 83.14 and the revised Rocky Flats evaluation. 

10 That's about it.

11 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Any 

12 questions for LaVon? Okay. Updates from Work 

13 Groups and Subcommittees. No need to go through 

14 all of them. But if anybody has updates they'd 

15 like to present? Maybe I'll start the --

16 MEMBER ANDERSON: Hi, this is Andy. 

17 The AWE, I'm looking at calendars. We're hoping 

18 to finalize one of our reviews before the next 

19 meeting. I'll be getting back with calendar 

20 schedules pretty soon.

21 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. And we 

22 have that tentatively scheduled for the next 
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1 meeting. 38

2 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes.

3 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Good. Paul, 

4 TBD-6000?

5 MEMBER ZIEMER: Yes. TBD-6000. 

6 We've scheduled a meeting for Friday. In fact, 

7 we have two NIOSH White Papers to review, where 

8 we're getting the reviews of those from SC&A.

9 We also have some recent input from 

10 the co-petitioner that we'd be looking at as 

11 well. So our focus on, you know, for TBD-6000 

12 Work Group, beyond the, you know, General Steel 

13 Industries, Appendix B issues.

14 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Joe Fitzgerald, I 

15 don't know if you're on the line?

16 MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, I am.

17 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Mark 

18 volunteered you.

19 MR. FITZGERALD: Yes. He warned me 

20 ahead of time though.

21 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. For both, 

22 I guess, Rocky Flats and Savannah River.
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1 MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, I mean, with 39

2 respect to, let's take Rocky first. We do have 

3 two issues that we were to get back to the Work 

4 Group on. And the piece on allegations I think 

5 went to the Work Group yesterday.

6 And we have some lengthy analysis on 

7 tritium, which is actually at DOE right now for 

8 declassification review. And we're hoping to 

9 have that ready for the Work Group next week.

10 But in any case, we're certainly 

11 prepared to, you know, go through our review, and 

12 support the Work Group's discussion next week on 

13 Rocky. Also a company, LaVon, to Hanford on the 

14 neptunium issue. And spent a good amount of 

15 time looking at that issue.

16 So I think we're in a good place, as 

17 far as having, you know, certainly having a

18 position on some of those issues. On Savannah 

19 River, we had I thought a fairly successful on 

20 site visit.

21 Pretty good interviews addressing 

22 neptunium and thorium issues at Savannah River. 
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1 And that was done in conjunction with NIOSH, Tim 40

2 Taulbee and one of his support staff attended.

3 So we're already scheduling a return 

4 visit for the very first part of November to nail 

5 down some remaining issues. So that's moving 

6 ahead pretty well, which is good news. It's taken 

7 a fair amount of time to get to this point. But 

8 we are making progress now.

9 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Great.

10 DR. MAKHIJANI: Dr. Melius, this is 

11 Arjun Makhijani. Since Savannah River came up, 

12 I just wanted to give a little update on that, 

13 if I might.

14 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay.

15 DR. MAKHIJANI: Since Mr. Griffon 

16 is not there. The neptunium report had gone out 

17 some time back, review of the co-worker model. 

18 And yesterday our review of Addendum 3 of the 

19 Evaluation Report went out to the Work Group. 

20 And so we are prepared for a Work Group meeting, 

21 should the Work Group decide it wants one.

22 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Yes, I'll 
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1 remind Mark on that. Any questions or other 41

2 Board Members about either of those two sites?

3 MR. KATZ: Hi, this is Ted. I just 

4 have a little question about the last bit. 

5 Because I guess I'm confused over what Joe just 

6 reported, and then what you just said. Because 

7 I thought what Joe was saying was that neptunium 

8 is in review at DOE. So it's not released yet. 

9 Is that right?

10 MR. FITZGERALD: This is Joe. That 

11 -- no, no. What is at DOE is tritium.

12 MR. KATZ: Oh, tritium.

13 MR. FITZGERALD: For Rocky Flats. 

14 That's the one that's --

15 MR. KATZ: Oh, okay, okay. But 

16 then you're going back in November to the site. 

17 Is that still on issues of neptunium and --

18 MR. FITZGERALD: You know, they 

19 have -- as you may recall, they were pulling 

20 documents. And they pulled a fair number of 

21 documents, which Tim and I reviewed when we were 

22 there a week ago.
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1 And made some adjustments as far as 42

2 which ones we want to spend some more time with. 

3 And that's what the purpose of the November --

4 because it would be to do, at least in part, to 

5 finish up that review.

6 DR. MAKHIJANI: And, Ted, just to 

7 clarify. As you remember, you know, we've been 

8 having a great deal of difficulty, for budgetary 

9 and other reasons, with site access.

10 And it was decided quite some time 

11 back, I think late last year, that we should 

12 proceed to review the methodological issues that 

13 were not dependent on these things. And at 

14 least give that to the Working Group, so that we 

15 could make some progress on the review of the 

16 issues, which had already been much delayed, 

17 which is why it's a little bit in pieces.

18 But neptunium and thorium reports 

19 that have gone out have all been cleared by the 

20 DOE for clarification purposes. And gone out to 

21 the Work Group. Neptunium some time back, and 

22 thorium yesterday. And they involved 
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1 essentially methodological issues, and review 43

2 of the materials put forward by NIOSH.

3 MR. KATZ: Okay, good. Thank you, 

4 Arjun.

5 DR. MAKHIJANI: Sure.

6 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Any other 

7 Work Group updates?

8 MEMBER MUNN: This is Wanda. I can 

9 say a few words about procedure. We had a rather 

10 extensive meeting, maybe at least following the 

11 Idaho Falls meeting in July. And we're 

12 beginning to look at a significant number of PERs 

13 now. And more apparently coming down the pike.

14 So at this juncture, what we're 

15 looking at in terms of statistics for our total 

16 overview remains pretty good. Our total number 

17 of findings that we've dealt with in the 

18 Subcommittee are in excess of 600 now.

19 And of those, 80 percent are 

20 complete for all intents as purposes, as far as 

21 the Subcommittee is concerned. That does 

22 include something like 84 findings, which will 
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1 be eliminated when new revisions of upcoming 44

2 procedures are actually released.

3 So we're working on a large number 

4 of PERs, and doing a good job, I believe, on the 

5 outstanding issues that are before us. We'll be 

6 loading all of the PERs on our database for our 

7 next time out.

8 And again, to address, in small 

9 quantity, many of the overarching issues, which 

10 of course have to come back to many of the Work 

11 Groups that are working on those things 

12 themselves. So we're moving along.

13 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Good. Any 

14 questions? Any other Work Group updates? 

15 Okay. Next item on our agenda is Board 

16 Correspondence. And I have one item, which Ted 

17 has circulated to the Board.

18 As you recall, at the last meeting 

19 we had discussed, due to some of the delays in 

20 getting access to records and information at 

21 Savannah River, we had talked about doing a 

22 letter to Department of Energy regarding our 
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1 concern about those delays. 45

2 I guess, just talking about the 

3 letter got it resolved, I know. Maybe they were 

4 already working on it. So that got resolved. 

5 But after the, as we're finishing up our meeting 

6 I was talking to Joe Fitzgerald.

7 And I also thought, you know, he and 

8 I talked, and thought it would be, given that we 

9 had essentially finished up our work with 

10 Pantex, and had gotten a lot of support from 

11 people at that site.

12 And given some of the, you know, 

13 security concerns there, and so forth, that it 

14 was important that we do, that we thought it 

15 would be nice and appropriate for us to write a 

16 letter to the site thanking them for their, you 

17 know, cooperation and assistance during our work 

18 there.

19 So Joe Fitzgerald drafted a letter, 

20 and made a few minor changes in it. And let me 

21 read into the record and ask for comments. So 

22 it's to John Woolery, General Manager at Pantex.
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1 Dear Mr. Woolery: On behalf of the Advisory 46

2 Board on Radiation and Worker Health, I want to 

3 express our appreciation for the considerable 

4 support that you and your staff have provided to 

5 the Board and its support personnel over the past 

6 six years.

7 In particular, we appreciate the 

8 assistance given by Robin McLaurin and Michelle

9 Stoddard who, in conjunction with Greg Lewis of 

10 DOE - HSS and the resources provided by his 

11 office, facilitated our onsite visits and 

12 various document searches and retrievals. In a 

13 time of constrained resources, they found ways 

14 to be responsive to our information needs and 

15 were a pleasure to work with. 

16 We also want to recognize the 

17 following Pantex employees who all have played 

18 an integral role in supporting and advancing the 

19 Board's work at Pantex:

20 Tony McCreary, Karin Goodfellow, 

21 Frank Skrabits, Bob Barr, Don Gerber, Opal 

22 Taylor, Stan Stambaugh, Julie Maggi, Colleen 
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1 Walerczyk, Monica Graham, Scott Wilson, Gary 47

2 Britten, David Pompa, Sophie DeLosSantos, 

3 Mark Prather, Bill Hayes, John E. Cartwright 

4 former employee - still at Pantex), and Tom 

5 Jones (former employee - still at Pantex). 

6 Please extend our thanks to them.

7 The bulk of our site research is now 

8 completed with the Board's recommendation and 

9 HHS Secretary Sebelius approvals of a Special 

10 Exposure Cohort classes for Pantex workers for 

11 1958-1991.

12 Given the number of years and 

13 records involved, it has been a challenge, but 

14 one that proved successful with the support that 

15 everyone has provided us.

16 As we have grown familiar with the 

17 operational history of Pantex, we understand the 

18 pride that all of you have in what has been 

19 accomplished over the years and the continuing 

20 importance of your national security mission for 

21 our Nation. Thank you from all of us. Signed, 

22 myself, the Chairman.
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1 I don't know if anyone has any 48

2 comments or questions about that. But again, 

3 it's not something we've commonly done. But I 

4 thought given those circumstances. And Joe and 

5 I talked. I thought it was something, we should 

6 be doing it at Pantex.

7 MEMBER MUNN: Well, I guess I have 

8 a question here. And that is, certainly the 

9 letter is appropriate. If we are going to do 

10 that, I guess the question that came to my mind 

11 when we received the draft was whether we are, 

12 whether it's the Board's intention to establish 

13 a precedent here.

14 I know this has been a very, very 

15 tough site to get through. And I understand 

16 that these folks have been extremely helpful. 

17 But that's, it's not limited to that site.

18 And I am wondering whether it's the 

19 intent for us to undertake this type of 

20 appreciation, which of course is felt many 

21 times, under many circumstances, but has not 

22 been formally expressed in the past. So I guess 
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1 the question from here is, is this the intent of 49

2 the Board to establish a precedent by doing that?

3 MEMBER CLAWSON: Wanda, this is 

4 Brad. I don't think that that would be a bad 

5 idea at all. Because, you know, seeing what a 

6 lot of these sites go through, and especially 

7 these bigger ones.

8 You know, we get done with it, and 

9 we basically walk away. But there's a lot that 

10 we don't see. And a lot of pressures that these 

11 people go through.

12 I think it's just a good, I think it 

13 would be very good for the Board to be able to 

14 thank these sites, you know. It's a difficult 

15 thing. And I think, I wouldn't have a problem 

16 with it being a precedent.

17 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Anybody else, 

18 comments?

19 MEMBER SCHOFIELD: This is Phil. I 

20 kind of back Brad on that. Because, I mean, a 

21 lot of times we couldn't get any work done 

22 without the coordination and the help from 
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1 people at these different facilities. And many 50

2 times it takes a lot of their time and effort to 

3 assist us.

4 MEMBER MUNN: I don't think anyone 

5 would argue with that. And it's certainly 

6 appreciated. My point is, it is anticipated 

7 that this would be a requirement each and every 

8 organization that assists us.

9 We really do have to rely on people 

10 to do their jobs well, in order to fulfill our 

11 responsibilities. And I'm not questioning the 

12 appropriateness of thanking people. I'm 

13 questioning whether it is appropriate in 

14 professional situations of this sort for us to 

15 establish this as a precedent.

16 And my question was, is it a 

17 precedent? Or is this a one off situation? And 

18 I can see arguments on both sides of that coin. 

19 Just wanted clarification as to whether or not 

20 we intend to do this as a regular thing.

21 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Well, when I 

22 suggested, this is the first time we've done 
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1 this. So why don't we consider it on a, for now, 51

2 time being, on a case by case basis, and see where 

3 it comes up again?

4 And then we can decide whether we do 

5 it routinely, or whatever. I don't think we 

6 need to spend a lot of time worrying about it.

7 MEMBER MUNN: No, I don't either.

8 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: And then, and do 

9 that. So let's do it on a case by case basis, 

10 and see if -- there are a lot of other sites we've 

11 worked at, and have been helpful, and so forth.

12 But I think we've finished up at 

13 other sites where there's been as much, you know, 

14 I won't say difficulty, but challenges in terms 

15 of access, and so forth. And there may be others 

16 that are coming up. And let's deal with it on 

17 a case by case basis --

18 MEMBER MUNN: Right.

19 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: -- for now. Is 

20 that fair for everybody?

21 MEMBER MUNN: Fine for me.

22 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay.
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1 MEMBER CLAWSON: Sure. 52

2 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Good. On that, 

3 plans for October 13th Board meeting. Ted ran 

4 a, sort of a quick mock agenda, trying to figure 

5 out what was on the, would be on the agenda. And 

6 I think you've already heard from LaVon on one 

7 83.14.

8 And it looks, appears as if NIOSH 

9 will also be presenting a report on the Rocky 

10 Flats SEC petition at our meeting in Denver next 

11 month. So those are on. We'll also have an 

12 update on the co-worker sufficient accuracy 

13 issues.

14 So it will be part -- and that, from 

15 looking at what, you know, on the, you know, 

16 potentially on the agenda, and so forth, it 

17 appears as if our meeting would be at most a day 

18 and a half. I'm not sure we're going to be able 

19 to, or it would be appropriate to try to fit it 

20 into one day.

21 But it certainly looks as if, at this 

22 point, that we would be doing approximately a day 
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1 and a half for the Denver meeting. So that would 53

2 be on the, starting on the 16th, and going a half 

3 day on October 17th. Ted, do you think that 

4 still holds?

5 MR. KATZ: Yes. I don't think I can 

6 really do better in predicting right now, on the 

7 items that are somewhat uncertain, in terms of 

8 how much time they'll take, or whether they'll 

9 happen at all. So, yes, that's my best guess for 

10 now.

11 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. And so, 

12 unless, you know, LaVon has been, you know, 

13 misleading us, or something, and reports get 

14 delayed, we'll, I think we should all plan on, 

15 you know, in terms of your calendar, a day and 

16 a half.

17 And as we get a little bit closer we 

18 will -- or, in fact, if we have indications 

19 that's changing, we'll let everybody know. And 

20 we'll finalize it at some point as we're making 

21 arrangements, and so forth. Any questions --

22 MEMBER MUNN: Jim, I have one 
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1 question for you with respect to the agenda.54

2 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.

3 MEMBER MUNN: A couple of weeks ago 

4 I sent you a list of proposed presentations from 

5 the Procedures Subcommittee, and have not had 

6 any information back. Is it your intent to 

7 continue to have those presentations made? And 

8 if so, are we going to select two or more for the 

9 Denver meeting?

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: And the answer is 

11 that the Procedure Reviews update is on the 

12 agenda, or this mock agenda, draft agenda, 

13 whatever you want to call it. And so you should 

14 plan on presenting two.

15 MEMBER MUNN: Very good. Will we 

16 have information about which two will be chose?

17 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, I'll get 

18 back to you on that.

19 MEMBER MUNN: Okay. I think it --

20 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, I was 

21 actually waiting. I wanted to see what this 

22 agenda looked like, and where we were, in terms 
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1 of, you know, timing, and so forth. But we have 55

2 that listed on the agenda now.

3 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, that's good. 

4 Because it is helpful for SC&A to be able to start 

5 putting together those presentations well in 

6 advance, so that the Board Members can have them 

7 also a couple of weeks in advance, and take a look 

8 at them.

9 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Good.

10 MEMBER MUNN: Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Any other 

12 questions? Okay, everybody, thank you all. 

13 And we will see you in October, in Denver.

14 MEMBER MUNN: Good.

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay, thanks. 

16 Bye.

17 (Whereupon, the meeting was 

18 concluded at 12:03 p.m.)

19

20

21

22
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