STEVEN RAY GREEN AND ASSOCIATES 

NATIONALLY CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS 

404/733-6070 

THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES 

PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE 

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION 

NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH 

convenes 

WORKING GROUP MEETING 

ADVISORY BOARD ON 

 

RADIATION AND WORKER HEALTH 

WORKER OUTREACH

 

The verbatim transcript of the Work Group 

Meeting of the Advisory Board on Radiation and 

Worker Health held at the Marriott Airport Hotel, 

Cincinnati, Ohio, on Mar. 13, 2008. 
2

C O N T E N T S

Mar. 13, 2008 

WELCOME AND OPENING COMMENTS 6 

DR. CHRISTINE BRANCHE, DFO 

INTRODUCTION BY CHAIR 9 

MR. MIKE GIBSON, ABRWH 

OCAS UPDATE 11 

MR. LARRY ELLIOTT, NIOSH 

WORKERS, WORKER REPRESENTATIVES/ADVOCATE COMMENTS 21 

COURT REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE 30 

 
3

TRANSCRIPT LEGEND

The following transcript contains quoted material. Such 

material is reproduced as read or spoken. 

In the following transcript: a dash (--) indicates 

an unintentional or purposeful interruption of a 

sentence. An ellipsis (. . .) indicates halting speech 

or an unfinished sentence in dialogue or omission(s) of 

word(s) when reading written material. 

-- (sic) denotes an incorrect usage or pronunciation 

of a word which is transcribed in its original form as 

reported. 

-- (phonetically) indicates a phonetic spelling of 

the word if no confirmation of the correct spelling is 

available. 

-- "uh-huh" represents an affirmative response, and 

"uh-uh" represents a negative response. 

 -- "*" denotes a spelling based on phonetics, 

without reference available. 

-- ^/(inaudible)/ (unintelligible) signifies speaker 

failure, usually failure to use a microphone. 
4

 P A R T I C I P A N T S 

(By Group, in Alphabetical Order) 

DESIGNATED FEDERAL OFFICIAL

BRANCHE, Christine, Ph.D. 

Principal Associate Director 

National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health 

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 

Washington, DC 

BOARD MEMBERS

GIBSON, Michael H. 

President 

Paper, Allied-Industrial, Chemical, and Energy Union 

Local 5-4200 

Miamisburg, Ohio 

MUNN, Wanda I. 

Senior Nuclear Engineer (Retired) 

Richland, Washington 
5

PARTICIPANTS

ADAMS, NANCY, NIOSH 

BREYER, LAURIE, NIOSH 

BURGOS, ZAIDA, NIOSH 

ELLIOTT, LARRY, NIOSH 

HINNEFELD, STUART, NIOSH 

HOMOKI-TITUS, LIZ, HHS 

HOWELL, EMILY, HHS 

KOTSCH, JEFF, U.S. DOL 

LEWIS, MARK, ATL 

MCKEEL, DAN, SINEW 
6

P R O C E E D I N G S

(3:00 p.m.) 

WELCOME AND OPENING COMMENTS

DR. CHRISTINE BRANCHE, DFO

1 DR. BRANCHE: I’m Dr. Christine Branche, and 

2 I’m from NIOSH. And we’re about to begin now 

3 the Outreach Working Group meeting of the 

4 Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health. 

5 Mr. Michael Gibson is the Chair, and I’d like 

6 to begin by having each of the Board members 

7 on the phone announce themselves, please. 

8 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): This is Mike, 

9 Dr. Branche. I’m here. 

10 DR. BRANCHE: In the room, please. 

11 MS. MUNN: Wanda Munn, here. 

12 DR. BRANCHE: We’ll go on to the other 

13 information here before we check on the other 

14 two Advisory Board members. NIOSH staff in 

15 the room, would you please announce 

16 yourselves? 

17 MR. ELLIOTT: Larry Elliott, Director of 

18 OCAS. 
7

1 MR. HINNEFELD: Stu Hinnefeld, Technical 

2 Program Manager for OCAS. 

3 MS. ADAMS: Nancy Adams, Office of the 

4 Director. 

5 DR. BRANCHE: NIOSH staff who are 

6 participating by phone, would you please 

7 announce yourselves? 

8 MS. BURGOS (by Telephone): Zaida Burgos. 

9 MS. BREYER (by Telephone): This is Laurie 

10 Breyer. 

11 DR. BRANCHE: ORAU staff who are on by 

12 phone, please announce yourselves. 

13 MR. ELLIOTT: Maybe ATL staff. 

14 DR. BRANCHE: Okay, ATL staff who are 

15 participating by phone would you please 

16 announce yourselves? 

17 MR. LEWIS (by Telephone): This is Mark 

18 Lewis with ATL. 

19 DR. BRANCHE: SC&A staff who are 

20 participating by phone please announce 

21 yourselves. 

22 (no response) 
8

1 DR. BRANCHE: Other federal agency staff who 

2 are in the room, please. 

3 MS. HOWELL: This is Emily Howell with HHS. 

4 DR. BRANCHE: And those by phone, please. 

5 MS. HOMOKI-TITUS (by Telephone): Liz 

6 Homoki-Titus with HHS. 

7 MR. KOTSCH (by Telephone): Jeff Kotsch with 

8 Labor. 

9 DR. BRANCHE: Petitioners or their 

10 representatives who would like to announce 

11 their names please do so now. 

12 DR. McKEEL (by Telephone): This is Dan 

13 McKeel. 

14 DR. BRANCHE: Workers or their 

15 representatives who would like to announce 

16 themselves please do so now. 

17 (no response) 

18 DR. BRANCHE: Members of Congress or their 

19 representatives would you please indicate your 

20 names now? 

21 (no response) 

22 DR. BRANCHE: Others who’d like to mention 
9

1 their names please do so now. 

2 (no response) 

3 DR. BRANCHE: Are either Josie Beach or 

4 Philip Schofield on the line? 

5 (no response) 

6 DR. BRANCHE: Zaida, would you please call 

7 them? 

8 MS. BURGOS (by Telephone): I will. 

9 DR. BRANCHE: Thank you. 

10 All right, for those of you 

11 participating by phone, if you would please 

12 mute your phones now. If you do not have a 

13 mute button, then please use star six to mute 

14 your phones, and then when you’re ready to 

15 speak, please use the same star six that will 

16 allow us to hear you. I appreciate everyone’s 

17 participation in muting their lines so that we 

18 can all enhance the quality of the call. 

19 Mr. Gibson, I turn the microphone over 

20 to you. 

21 INTRODUCTION BY CHAIR

22 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Okay, thank you, 
10

1 Dr. Branche. 

2 I’d like to welcome everyone to the 

3 second meeting of the work group on Worker 

4 Outreach. I don’t anticipate this being a 

5 very long meeting. It’s basically just a 

6 little bit more of a status check. What I 

7 think we had in mind here was no formal 

8 presentations but OCAS is going to give us an 

9 informal update on their new procedure they’re 

10 developing as a database. And then we’re 

11 going to hear from SC&A if they had any 

12 further comments or updates from the last 

13 meeting. 

14 And then I’d like to hear if there are 

15 any additional comments or concerns from 

16 workers or their representatives or their 

17 advocates, and then we can hear from the 

18 members of the work group if they’ve attended 

19 any outreach meetings and how that went. So 

20 if there’s no other questions, we’ll get 

21 started. I’ll turn it over to Larry or one of 

22 his staff and they can give us an informal 
11

1 update on the new procedure database they’re 

2 preparing. 

3 DR. BRANCHE: Again, this is Dr. Christine 

4 Branche from NIOSH. If you are not speaking 

5 and you are on the phone, if you could please 

6 mute your phone. If you do not have a mute 

7 button, then please use star six to mute your 

8 phone. I’m saying this again because there’s 

9 a person that’s breathing rather heavily on 

10 the line that’s distorting the phone. 

11 Mr. Elliott. 

12 OCAS UPDATE

13 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you. 

14 Thanks, Mike. 

15 Yes, our two action items from your 

16 last working group meeting were to report 

17 progress on our revision of our outreach 

18 procedure protocol, if you will, and a 

19 database that is being developed in support of 

20 that. J.J. Johnson, who is the OCAS staff 

21 member who’s leading this effort, couldn’t be 

22 with us today, and Laurie, if you have details 
12

1 beyond what I have, feel free to add them 

2 here. 

3 But it’s my understanding from J.J. 

4 that work is proceeding on both of these, the 

5 revision and the database development. We 

6 don’t have much more to say than that, just 

7 that work is proceeding. I think our intent 

8 is still to have this put in some final form 

9 for the working group’s examination by the -- 

10 I don’t know -- did we say the June meeting? 

11 I don’t recall. 

12 MR. HINNEFELD: I don’t recall if he gave, 

13 he gave us -- 

14 DR. BRANCHE: Does Laurie know? 

15 MR. ELLIOTT: Do you know, Laurie? 

16 MS. BREYER (by Telephone): I don’t think 

17 that we had a specific timeframe that I 

18 remember. I know we talked about having an 

19 update for this meeting, but I’ll look through 

20 my notes though. 

21 MR. ELLIOTT: I will look into that, Mr. 

22 Gibson, so that I can get back to you and the 
13

1 working group members with a little bit 

2 clearer understanding of our timeline on this 

3 effort. 

4 The other thing that we were asked to 

5 report progress on, or report back about, were 

6 a calendar of events, outreach events, that we 

7 understood were scheduled. And at this point 

8 in time there’s only one event that we are 

9 actively involved in scheduling and that is a 

10 training workshop that organized labor reps 

11 have asked for a variety of sites. And labor 

12 representatives from sites across the complex 

13 have asked for us to give them a training on 

14 SEC procedures and dose reconstruction 

15 probability of causation calculation. 

16 We’ve done similar kinds of these 

17 workshops in the past where we brought in 

18 interested parties, workers, labor 

19 representatives, activists and advocates and 

20 sat down in a one-and-a-half day session. And 

21 that’s kind of what we’re planning here except 

22 we’re, through the good works of Vern 
14

1 McDougall and ATL and Mark Lewis, we’re asking 

2 these labor folks to help set the agenda for 

3 that day and a half or whatever it turns out 

4 to be. 

5 That is coming up, I believe we had it 

targeted for the 28th and 29th 6 ? 

MR. HINNEFELD: I think it’s the 29th 7 and 

30th 8 . 

MR. ELLIOTT: Twenty-ninth and 30th 9 . And 

10 then the only other thing that I would say is 

11 tentatively being scheduled right now is SEC 

12 outreach for Savannah River. 

13 And in that I’ll remind this working 

14 group and members of the public that are on 

15 the line that we have a variety of outreach 

16 forums from town hall meetings to focus 

17 groups, and for an SEC interaction we will 

18 probably be looking at a far more likely focus 

19 group where we take in a series of questions 

20 that come out of the petition and try to gain 

21 some insight from former or current workers 

22 about the operations at that site that are 
15

1 relevant to the petition. I don’t know when 

2 that’s going to be planned. That’s just in 

3 the conceptualization right now stage. 

4 I guess that’s all I have to say 

5 unless Laurie has something else to offer. 

6 MS. BREYER (by Telephone): The only thing 

7 that I have to offer is I did look in my 

8 notes. I don’t see where we gave a specific 

9 month where we would try to have these new 

10 procedures done other than J.J. commenting 

11 that it would probably take several months to 

12 get it done. 

13 And just a little clarification on 

14 J.J.’s progress on getting those procedures 

15 written was delayed some because he was 

16 waiting for our technical support team to get 

17 that database up and running which will help 

18 us out writing the procedures. And one of the 

19 guys working on that was out for awhile 

20 because of an illness in his family. 

21 So both of those, the database and the 

22 procedures, are like Larry said, up and 
16

1 running, and we’ll be working on those. And 

2 the only other future outreach is NIOSH staff 

3 are going to be attending some DOL outreach 

4 meetings in support of a couple of outreach 

5 meetings they’re doing in areas where a newly 

6 added SEC class is now in effect. And other 

7 than that I don’t have any other comments. 

8 MR. ELLIOTT: I guess that raises a question 

9 in my mind with regard to the calendar of 

10 events. Mr. Gibson, do you, or Ms. Munn, do 

11 you feel that we should include those kinds 

12 of, there are DOL-sponsored meetings, and we 

13 typically are invited to participate to 

14 explain our role. Sometimes we may not be. 

15 Sometimes we are invited, and we choose not to 

16 go. So is that something you want to see on 

17 the calendar, what Laurie just described as 

18 DOL-sponsored event? 

19 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): I would say I 

20 think we might see them on the calendar 

21 although while we are interested in how these 

22 meetings take place I don’t know that we’d 
17

1 have any input since the Department of Labor 

2 is just initiating the meeting. 

3 MR. ELLIOTT: Okay, well, we’ll make sure we 

4 then speak and add those types of events to 

5 the calendar if that’s, you think that would 

6 be helpful. 

7 I think it’s probably helpful to know 

8 that the ones Laurie just mentioned are 

9 Lawrence-Livermore -- 

10 MR. HINNEFELD: Lawrence-Livermore and Los 

11 Alamos. Los Alamos is the week before the 

12 next Board meeting, and Lawrence-Livermore is 

the week of April 21st 13 . 

14 MS. MUNN: This is Wanda. It’s always 

15 informative for me to see how these meetings 

16 are conducted and the kind of material that is 

17 covered. Specifically, it’s of great interest 

18 to see where the workers’ concerns lie most 

19 clearly and which of the worker groups express 

20 the most concern and the most desire for 

21 further information. 

22 It’s sometimes difficult to go to 
18

1 these, but sometimes well worth the effort. I 

2 found it, the few that I’ve attended 

3 personally, have been very helpful for me 

4 especially when we as a full Board begin to 

5 discuss that particular site. 

6 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Yeah I’ll just 

7 add on to that. I was able to attend the 

8 worker outreach SEC meeting at Pinellas in 

9 February that Laurie Breyer and Denise Brock 

10 put on and had Pete Darnelle there with them 

11 to answer health physics questions. And for 

12 the SEC-type meeting like that, it was very 

13 well conducted and for the most part very well 

14 received by the people, very informative to 

15 them. And I think those type of meetings seem 

16 to be going fairly well as opposed to some of 

17 the others that we’ve seen, now there’s more 

18 worker concerns as Wanda said. 

19 MR. ELLIOTT: We appreciate hearing the 

20 Board members’ thoughts and reflections about 

21 their attendance at these meetings and 

22 certainly welcome any comments or thoughts you 
19

1 may have as toward where we can improve, how 

2 we can do these things better. 

3 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): So is there any 

4 other comments or anything on the OCAS 

5 procedures or database at this time? 

6 (no response) 

7 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): We’ll move on to 

8 SC&A. Does SC&A have any further comments or 

9 updates they’d like to share at this point? 

10 DR. BRANCHE: Has anyone from SC&A joined 

11 the line? 

12 (no response) 

13 MS. MUNN: This is Wanda. In the absence of 

14 SC&A, I can comment that I did go to Argonne 

15 East with Kathy Robertson-DeMers and Chick 

16 Phillips when they went down to conduct worker 

17 interviews in an effort to obtain 

18 clarification and more detailed information on 

19 the site profile and to check the records that 

20 are there which were voluminous by the way and 

21 extremely interesting for anyone who has any 

22 interest at all in the history of nuclear 
20

1 technology. 

2 It’s hard not to be fascinated by what 

3 goes on at Argonne East and what they have in 

4 their record systems there. We were there for 

5 three full days, and although I did very 

6 little other than observe and comment with 

7 some of the workers from time to time, found 

8 it extremely interesting and I think it was 

9 very productive for Kathy and Chick. 

10 MR. ELLIOTT: I was just reminded that there 

11 was one other interaction I will say with a 

12 group of workers. It’s at their request. I’m 

13 not sure if it falls under our outreach 

14 rubric, but certainly we will be, Jim Neton 

15 and I, will be going down to the Portsmouth, 

16 Ohio, area and talking to a group of guards 

17 down there that have some questions and issues 

18 that they have raised up about the Portsmouth 

19 Gaseous Diffusion Plant’s site profile. And I 

20 believe we communicated those to the Board to 

21 Dr. Ziemer. So we will be visiting with those 

22 folks onsite. 
21

1 WORKERS, WORKER REPRESENTATIVES/ADVOCATE COMMENTS

2 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Moving right 

3 along here, we had some comments by Dr. McKeel 

4 and [Identifying Information Redacted] and one 

5 of the gentlemen from the security force at 

6 Fernald in the last meeting. If any of those 

7 are on the line, and they still have concerns 

8 or anything they want to bring up at this 

9 point or any other workers who are out there. 

10 DR. McKEEL (by Telephone): This is Dan 

11 McKeel. I just had some further input on one 

12 of my concerns last time that I found 

13 something and maybe you all could benefit from 

14 this. 

15 As you know part of the problem with 

16 outreach is to try to -- and I would say this 

17 is not exclusively directed at outreach -- but 

18 one of the problems to try to get records to 

19 verify testimony that the workers give at 

20 their meetings with NIOSH and with SC&A. And 

21 that necessarily involves getting information 

22 from the CDC Atlanta FOIA Office. 
22

1 I have been concerned for a long time 

2 at the long delays experienced. I had a 

3 conversation yesterday with Brenda Schumer, 

4 and it was very illuminating because it highly 

5 clarified for me that that office is operating 

6 under what they call the first-in first-out 

7 principle. And the principle derives from a 

8 case called Open America versus the Watergate 

9 -- and I can’t remember the last part -- 

10 Special Prosecution Force is what it’s called. 

11 That’s the court name of the case. 

12 And in that case I think the committee 

13 from Watergate, the Congressional committee, 

14 was deluged with information requests under 

15 FOIA. And the Court granted to them a special 

16 exemption whereby they didn’t have to answer 

17 requests within 20 days like the law 

18 stipulates for everybody else because there 

19 were extraordinary volumes of material 

20 submitted. And so that ruling which was very 

21 narrowing for that situation where an agency 

22 suddenly gets overwhelmed with requests and 
23

1 cannot meet the 20-day response time ^ to 

2 catch up on the backlog and to take 20 days to 

3 give the requestor a response ^ handle the 

4 request. And so basically the 20-day delivery 

5 requirement is waived. 

6 So I went yesterday to ask what the 

7 FOIA office in Atlanta has been operating 

8 under for quite some time, and I was directed 

9 to where that document is. And I certainly 

10 could furnish that to the committee if they’re 

11 at all interested. But it gives us a reason 

12 and explanation as to why it’s taking so long 

13 for Atlanta FOIA to process materials that 

14 were related to the issues that workers were 

15 very interested in, and that we only have 

16 access to really through the FOIA process. 

17 My reading of that ruling -- and I’m 

18 no lawyer -- but it seems very clear to me 

19 that the Court intended that only for 

20 situations which were truly exceptional 

21 increases in FOIA requests, and I frankly 

22 don’t understand where that has occurred for 
24

1 HHS in the CDC FOIA office unless it’s some 

2 extraordinary bump up that they’ve gotten from 

3 just the whole program itself. But I would 

4 imagine EEOICPA is a very small part of their 

5 overall task. 

6 The other thing that the Court said 

7 was that that exception is granted for first8 in first-out only if the agency can show that 

9 they are drawing down the backlog and dealing 

10 with it. And I don’t know if that’s true at 

11 all or not. So anyway, that was my insight 

12 that I thought I’d pass along to everybody and 

13 if at least a possible explanation for why a 

request made December the 14th 14 for three 

15 documents has not been delivered here on March 

the 13th 16 . 

17 I guess that’s all I have to say. I’m 

18 happy to be participating and have a chance to 

19 have input into these outreach meetings of the 

20 work group which I think are very important. 

21 Thank you. 

22 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Thank you, Dan. 
25

1 Larry, could we possibly maybe at our 

2 next meeting have someone from CDC’s Legal 

3 Department answer this in some more detail as 

4 far as do they think this first-in first-out 

5 policy is applicable to NIOSH in this program 

6 or -- 

7 MS. HOMOKI-TITUS (by Telephone): We don’t 

8 do public presentations from the Legal 

9 Department. As you know we haven’t done them 

10 in the past, and we won’t do them now. If we 

11 need to have a closed session or some other 

12 type of session to address this issue for you, 

13 we will. But you really should be asking for 

14 somebody from the FOIA office to come and 

15 explain their policy. 

16 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Okay, I’ll 

17 revise my request and ask someone from FOIA to 

18 give us their policy and their position on 

19 this. 

20 MR. ELLIOTT: You’d like that to the working 

21 group or to the full Board? 

22 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): It’s probably a 
26

1 question for the whole Board. 

2 MR. ELLIOTT: I think it would be. 

3 DR. BRANCHE: This is Christine. I’ll make 

4 the request. It wouldn’t be able to happen 

5 until the June meeting at the earliest. 

6 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): That’s fine. 

7 MS. HOWELL: And, Mike, you may want to 

8 convey this concern to Dr. Ziemer if the full 

9 Board presentation will be needed. 

10 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Okay. I just 

11 feel like this is an ongoing issue and the 

12 more information we can get on it I think the 

13 better we can try to deal with it. 

14 DR. BRANCHE: Or at least understand it. 

15 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Right. 

16 Are there any other workers that are – 

17 [Identifying Information Redacted] or anyone 

18 else on the line? 

19 (no response) 

20 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Any other 

21 workers or their advocates that would like to 

22 make a comment? 
27

1 (no response) 

2 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): If not, Josie or 

3 Phil joined us? 

4 DR. BRANCHE: Mr. Gibson, Zaida would have 

5 called, and they would have joined the line 

6 based on her having prompted them. Given that 

7 they have not joined the call I suspect that 

8 she was unable to reach them. And I don’t 

9 have an e-mail indicating that either of them 

10 -- 

11 MS. BURGOS (by Telephone): Dr. Branche, 

12 this is Zaida. Yes, I was unable to get a 

13 hold of them. I left messages. 

14 DR. BRANCHE: Okay, thanks so much for 

15 verifying that. 

16 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Thank you, 

17 Zaida. 

18 Wanda, do you have any other comments 

19 as far as this working group or any of the 

20 meetings that we’ve attended? 

21 MS. MUNN: I don’t believe so, Mike. You 

22 heard my report from Argonne, and that’s the 
28

1 only personal interaction that I had. 

2 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Well, with that 

3 being said I don’t see a whole lot more to do 

4 here today, and I don’t really see any 

5 concrete issues that we can set another 

6 meeting of this work group yet. 

7 MR. ELLIOTT: I think you need to have our 

8 revised procedure and database before we can 

9 really have something to chew on. 

10 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Correct, yeah. 

11 So maybe we can, members of the work group get 

12 together sometime during our Tampa meeting and 

13 maybe discuss another little informal phone 

14 call. But other than that I think we’re 

15 waiting on this new procedure and database. 

16 MS. MUNN: Perhaps at the Tampa meeting we 

17 can identify when our next phone call needs to 

18 happen. 

19 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Right. And 

20 other than that, is there any other comments 

21 from Board members or NIOSH or Dr. Branche? 

22 DR. BRANCHE: No other comments from me. 
29

1 What I’ve done, if Mr. Gibson, if you would 

2 want to inquire of Dr. Ziemer about wanting to 

3 have this on the June agenda, if you want to 

4 do that by e-mail you can feel free to copy 

5 me, and then I’ll pursue that formally based 

6 on his response. 

7 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Okay, I will do 

8 that. 

9 DR. BRANCHE: Thank you very much. 

10 MR. GIBSON (by Telephone): Other than that 

11 as far as I’m concerned I think this meeting’s 

12 adjourned. I’d like to thank everyone for 

13 their participation. 

14 (Whereupon, the meeting was adjourned at 

15 3:36 p.m.) 

16 
30

1 CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER 

STATE OF GEORGIA 

COUNTY OF FULTON 

 I, Steven Ray Green, Certified Merit Court 

Reporter, do hereby certify that I reported the 

above and foregoing on the day of March 13, 

2008; and it is a true and accurate transcript 

of the testimony captioned herein. 

 I further certify that I am neither kin 

nor counsel to any of the parties herein, nor 

have any interest in the cause named herein. 

 WITNESS my hand and official seal this the 

9th day of Dec., 2008. 

___________________________________ 

STEVEN RAY GREEN, CCR, CVR-CM, PNSC 

CERTIFIED MERIT COURT REPORTER 

CERTIFICATE NUMBER: A-2102