CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION

NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH

ADVISORY BOARD ON RADIATION AND WORKER HEALTH

MEETING 154

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 12, 2023

The meeting convened at 11:00 A.M. EST,

via video teleconference,

Dr. Henry Anderson, Chair, presiding.

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Members Present:

Henry A. Anderson, Chair

Beach, Josie, Member

Clawson, Brad Member

Frank, Arthur, Member

Lockey, James, Member

Martinez, Nicole, Member

Pompa, David, Member

Ziemer, Paul, Member

Registered and/or Public Comment Participants:

Roberts, Rashaun, DFO

Adams, Nancy, NIOSH contractor

Barton, Bob, SC&A

Behling, Kathy, SC&A

Buchanan, Ron, SC&A

Gogliotti, Rose, SC&A

Habighurst, Ashton, HHS

Mangel, Amy, SC&A

Ostrow, Steve, SC&A

Rafkey, Michael, HHS

Sundin, Dave, NIOSH/DCAS

Rutherford, LaVon, NIOSH/DCAS

Nelson, Chuck, NIOSH/DCAS

Registered and/or Public Comment Participants continued:

Frowiss, Al, Sr.
TABLE OF CONTENTS

Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health Meeting 154 ............................................ 1

Thursday, October 12, 2023.............................................................................................................. 1

Proceedings .......................................................................................................................................... 4

Welcome and Roll Call ................................................................................................................. 4

Update on Cybersecurity Modernization Initiative............................................................ 7

Special Exposure Cohort (SEC) Status Update.................................................................. 8

Updates from Work Groups and Subcommittees.............................................................. 9

Plans for the December 2023 Board Meeting...................................................................16
PROCEEDINGS

(11:00 A.M.)

WELCOME AND ROLL CALL

Dr. Roberts: So, good morning, everyone. I'm Rashaun Roberts. I'm 

the Designated Federal Official for the Advisory Board on Radiation and 

Worker Health, and I'd like to welcome you to this teleconference. The 

agenda for today's meeting is posted on the NIOSH website. There's a 

schedule of meetings, and you can access the agenda there under the 

October 2023 tab. 

As you know, this meeting is being conducted by telephone only. In 

order to keep the meeting moving forward without interruption, I do ask 

each of you to please mute your phone unless, of course, you need to speak. 

If you don't have a mute button, press star six to mute. If you need to take 

yourself off -- and I can hear that somebody isn't on mute, so if you could, 

please check your phone. So, if you don't have a mute button, press star six 

to mute; if you need to take yourself off, press star six again. 

Also, because we will be unable to see each other for this meeting, 

please identify yourself before comments and questions. And, again, I'm 

hearing some interference. If everyone can please make sure that they're 

on mute, that would -- that would be helpful.

Okay. So, the primary purpose of this meeting is to prepare for the 

Board's meeting in December, although there are other items, mainly 

updates, on today's agenda. Because this is primarily an administrative 

meeting, we don't need to cover conflicts of interest. So, with that said, let 

me move into role call now, starting with the Board Members in alphabetical 
order.

So, Anderson?

Chair Anderson: Present. 

Dr. Roberts: Beach? Okay. I think she said she was --

Member Beach: (Indiscernible.) I'm sorry about that. Can you hear 

me? 

Dr. Roberts: Oh, great. Yes, I can hear you. 

Member Beach: Oh, hi. Thanks. 

Dr. Roberts: Hi. Okay. And Dr. Cassano said that she was not able 

to make the meeting today. And again, I'm just going to remind people, 

please double-check your phones and make sure you're on mute. I'm 

hearing a computer in the background.

Clawson? 

Member Clawson: Here. 

Dr. Roberts: Frank? 

Member Frank: Here. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Kotelchuck, I believe he may be on travel. But 

Kotelchuck, are you here today? Lockey? 

Member Lockey: Here. 

Dr. Roberts: Martinez? 

Member Martinez: I'm here. 

Member Pompa: Pompa? 

Member Pompa: Here. Good morning. Yes. 

Dr. Roberts: Roessler? I believe she -- actually, I believe she said 

she couldn't make it today. Valerio? Okay. And Ziemer? Ziemer, I thought 
I heard you a little bit earlier. Are you still there? 

Member Ziemer: Yes. I thought I was off mute here. I -- I'm here. 

Are you hearing me? 

Dr. Roberts: Yes, I do hear you now. Okay. I do believe we have a 

quorum despite having a few people out. So, let me move on to here --

who's here for NIOSH/DCAS. 

Mr. Rutherford: This is LaVon Rutherford.

Mr. Sundin: Dave Sundin. 

Mr. Nelson: Chuck Nelson. 

Dr. Roberts: Anyone else for NIOSH/DCAS? Okay. Let's move on to 

SC&A. 

Mr. Barton: Bob Barton, SC&A. 

Ms. Behling: Kathy Behling, SC&A. 

Dr. Buchanan: Ron Buchanan, SC&A.

Ms. Gogliotti: Rose Gogliotti, SC&A.

Ms. Mangel: Amy Mangel, SC&A.

Mr. Ostrow: Steve Ostrow. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Anyone else for SC&A? Okay. Let's move on to 

the departments, HHS, DOL, DOE, other departments. 

Mr. Rafkey: Michael Rafkey, HHS. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. What about contractors? 

Ms. Adams: Nancy Adams, NIOSH contractor.

Dr. Roberts: And again, anyone from DOL, DOE, other departments? 

Okay. Are there any members of the public who are on who'd like to 

register their attendance at this time? 
Mr. Frowiss: Al Frowiss, advocate. 

Dr. Roberts: I'm sorry, I didn't catch the last name.

Mr. Frowiss: Frowiss, F.R.O.W.I.S.S., Sr. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Thank you so much. Any other members of the 

public who would like to register attendance today? Okay. Well, thank you. 

Let's go ahead and move on to the next item of the agenda. Again, 

please periodically check your phone to ensure that you're on mute. Again, 

if you don't have a mute button, press star six to mute; if you need to take 

yourself off, press star six again. And please remember to identify yourself 

if you're making comments or asking questions today. 

So, without further ado, I will turn the floor over to Dr. Henry 

Anderson, who's the Board Chair to lead us through the rest of the agenda. 

Chair Anderson: Thank you very much, Rashaun. I want to 

welcome everybody and hope the end of your summers are going well and 

appears every -- quite a number on travel and doing other things, but I 

appreciate everybody who's called in on this. 

UPDATE ON CYBERSECURITY MODERNIZATION INITIATIVE

Chair Anderson: Our first date is cybersecurity modernization 

initiative. I think LaVon, you're going to get the update for it? 

Mr. Rutherford: Yeah, Dr. Anderson. Grady's unable to attend 

today. Really nothing has changed since Grady's report at the August 

Advisory Board meeting. We are still processing claims manually, and we 

are maintaining steady state. As Grady mentioned at the August meeting, 

this means that dose reconstructions are being completed at the same rate 
that new dose reconstructions come in from DOL. Also, we continue to 

achieve our goal of having more than 90 percent of our dose reconstructions 

completed within five months of receiving the last data required for 

completing the dose reconstructions. 

On other -- other IT information, we continue to work on the data 

management systems like the site research database. I don't have a real 

good time line on that. Maybe Grady will have some more updates on that 

at the December Advisory Board meeting. 

And that's all I got. Any questions? 

Chair Anderson: Okay. Thanks a lot, LaVon. Not too much time has 

passed since August, so not surprising that a whole lot hasn't happened. 

So next, let's get an update on the special exposure cohorts 

statuses --

Unidentified Speaker: (Indiscernible) --

Chair Anderson: Everybody needs --

Dr. Roberts: Okay. 

Chair Anderson: -- to be on mute. 

SPECIAL EXPOSURE COHORT (SEC) STATUS UPDATE

Mr. Nelson: Thanks, Dr. Anderson. Hello, everyone. For the 

December 2023 Advisory Board meeting, we will not be presenting any new 

SEC petitions. I mentioned in the last Advisory Board meeting that we got a 

petition for Weldon Spring Plant, so it's currently under qualification review 

stage. So, other than that, we do have some upcoming work group 

meetings. One is for Pinellas on November 20th, and the other one's for 
Metals and Controls, and I believe that set for December 6th. And I'm sure 

that'll be discussed more when we get some updates from our work group 

chairs. 

Other than that, like I said, I expect the work group chairs will provide 

their updates today as needed on any current and ongoing SEC petitions. 

And with that, are there any questions? 

Chair Anderson: Hearing no other questions -- if you're on mute, 

take it off if you've got a question. So, thanks a lot, Chuck. 

UPDATES FROM WORK GROUPS AND SUBCOMMITTEES

Chair Anderson: Next, let's move on to any updates from work 

groups and subcommittees. 

Member Clawson: Henry, this is -- this is Brad. I've just got an 

update. We have finally got for Pinellas the paperwork that SC&A has been 

working on in the response. It's not -- it's not ready right now for 

publication. It's still going through the 508 review, I believe. And we've 

just sent in the -- NIOSH's last paper for Savannah River, and it's going 

through the 508 Privacy Act review at this time. They're --

Chair Anderson: And are you --

Member Clawson: -- (indiscernible) --

Chair Anderson: -- still trying to go ahead with a Pinellas meeting on 

November 20? 

Member Clawson: That is my understanding, yeah. Big thing was to 

be able to get this paperwork and get it put out there. 

Chair Anderson: Yeah. You need time to go through it. 
Member Clawson: Right. 

Chair Anderson: Any other updates? 

Member Beach: This is Josie. Can you hear me? 

Chair Anderson: Yes. 

Member Beach: Hi. So, I had a procedures subcommittee meeting 

scheduled for November 16th, and I believe we were working --

(Whereupon, an unidentified speaker coughs.) 

Member Beach: -- (indiscernible) meetings for December 6th. 

(Whereupon, an unidentified speaker coughs.) 

Member Beach: -- (indiscernible) scheduled or not. I guess that's a 

question for you, Rashaun. 

Dr. Roberts: Yes, that has been officially scheduled for December 

6th. 

Member Beach: Perfect. Okay. Then those are the two updates I 

have at this time. Thank you. 

Chair Anderson: Any other updates? I think some of the people are 

on travel. 

Member Ziemer: Well, my question has to do with Lawrence 

Livermore. I don't believe we have any -- have had any sort of action going 

on. I know the most recent things we have in Lawrence Livermore, maybe 

Dr. Lockey can update me on this, but I know that -- and I'm not the chair 

of the committee. I'm just asking you these questions. SC&A put out some 

documents on Lawrence Livermore in May 2021 and there may be one in 

2017. As far as I know, the NIOSH has not responded to those documents. 

I wonder if SC&A or NIOSH can confirm that, because I -- I'm wondering 
where we are on Lawrence Livermore. If we're going to go out there, and, 

you know, generally we're trying to focus on the facility where we're 

meeting. And I don't -- I'm not sure where we are on responding to SC&A's 

reviews. 

Mr. Rutherford: Chuck, are you gonna jump in on there, or you want 

me to? I can give an update --

Mr. Nelson: Yeah, I can give you a little update on that. Feel free to 

jump in after me, Bomber, but yeah. What we're doing is we're looking at 

Uranium-233 exposures at Lawrence Livermore. We're thinking --
Member Ziemer: Right, right. 

Mr. Nelson: -- we're going to be doing some additional interviews. 

So, right now, our team at ORAU's contacting the site in trying to determine 

if we could locate some people that worked in Building 251 to look at that for 

the period of after 1989. So, we're looking at DR feasibility for that period 

of time. So, we're looking at wrapping this up, but we do want to perhaps 

interview some people to lock down our feasibility of determination. So, 

that's where we are with it right now. If we have any interviews set up, 

we'll certainly invite the work group members to that -- to attend that. 

Member Lockey: Hey, Jim Lockey. We were waiting --

Member Ziemer: (Indiscernible) have at the time of the meeting, 

anything to present. And keep in mind. I don't know how many of you 

remember, some of the old timers, we've been to Lawrence Livermore in the 

past, two or three times, I guess, and hardly any of the people in that --

from the lab show up for the meetings in terms of the public. 

And also, I -- I just looked back in the records, and I know that there 

were -- there was a town hall meeting there and 2015. I think Stu Hinnefeld 

led that. Maybe LaVon you were involved with that as well. And from what 

I can tell, there were 15 people showed up for a townhall meeting. And 

there were -- there was another meeting led by Grady in 2006. So, it 

jumped back there. And there were like seven people attended that. 

So, we -- we don't get a -- we haven't had a record of getting a big 

response from the public at Lawrence Livermore. And if we don't have 

anything to present about Lawrence Livermore, I get -- and I may be re --

sort of getting ahead of the headlights here for the last item on the agenda, 
13

but I'm wondering why we will be going to Lawrence Livermore. 

Member Lockey: Paul? Can you hear me, Paul? 

Member Ziemer: Yes. 

Member Lockey: Jim Lockey. We are waiting -- before the work 

group would meet, we were waiting for NIOSH to finish the current work 

project. And what they can do is just present an update, what's been done 

in the past, what the current status is, and what the -- what the status is 

going forward. But you raised a good point. I don't think the work group 

will be meeting -- I don't think NIOSH will have anything completed for us to 

have a meeting before that December meeting. 

Mr. Nelson: That is true. This is Chuck. Just to give a little 

background. So, in 2016, a class was added for 1974 through 1989 that 

was due to infeasibility in reconstructing doses with Uranium-233. So, we 

reserved a period for evaluation, and that would be that same time period 

for non U-233 exposures. Then going forward from '90 to '95, we're going 

to be looking at all exposures. So, our focus right now, like I mentioned, 

was U-233 for the '90 to '95 time period. And the intention here is perhaps 

to get some interviews to tighten our -- what our final conclusions would be 

for U-233 for that time period. So that's -- that's an upcoming activity. We 

don't expect to be presenting anything with regard to that addendum. You 

know, we can certainly provide an update though. 

Chair Anderson: Any other committee updates? I know Dave 

Kotelchuck isn't on because he's traveling. And next set of case reviews, I 

think it's set 32, is about ready. And that will be coming to the committee, 

so that committee will be meeting before too long as well. Am I correct on 
14

that, Rashaun? 

Dr. Roberts: Yeah, they'll have to, of course, touch base with Dave 

when he is back. But yes, I think we do need to keep in mind that we have 

to do a Federal Register Notice since that's a subcommittee, and so it will 

probably be at least two or three months before the committee is able to 

meet.

Chair Anderson: All right. 

Unidentified Speaker: Is there any --

Chair Anderson: -- head up -- heads up. 

Ms. Gogliotti: Ah, --

Chair Anderson: Go ahead. 

Ms. Gogliotti: Rashaun, this is --

Member Clawson: -- Brad. 

Ms. Gogliotti: -- Rose Gogliotti. 

Chair Anderson: Go ahead, Rose. 

Ms. Gogliotti: We just submitted that set, but I don't think NIOSH 

has had a chance to respond to it. So, I think we're probably closer to six 

months out for a meeting for that subcommittee. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Yeah. Thanks for -- thanks for mentioning that. 

Chair Anderson: And while you're talking, Rose, we want to thank 

you for putting on the training. And if any of the Board Members want to 

say anything about how that went, I thought it went very well and 

appreciated all of the work you put into it, Rose. And I think everybody --

it's good to get a refresher on how things are done and what's going on. So, 

I thank you very much for doing that. 
15

Ms. Gogliotti: Thank --

Member Frank: Yeah, this is --

Ms. Gogliotti: -- -you. 

Member Frank: -- Arthur Frank. Yeah, Rose, thank you. It was 

very helpful, you know, for a new person like myself. It gave me great 

insight into how this all gets done. So, I was grateful for your time with us. 

Thank you. 

Ms. Gogliotti: Thank you. If --

Chair Anderson: Is anyone --

Ms. Gogliotti: -- anybody didn't participate and wants to listen, I did 

record it. So, I believe I send it out to Board Members, but if you still want 

that link, let me know and I can send it to you. 

Chair Anderson: Thank you. Okay. 

Member Pompa: (Indiscernible) --

Chair Anderson: Okay. Yeah, go ahead. 

Member Pompa: This is David Pompa. Yeah, the class was very 

beneficial -- I worked at the, of course, a nuclear power -- nuclear plant -- to 

help understand the other facilities and where everything comes together. 

But yes, it was very helpful. Appreciate all the time that you spent putting it 

together. Thank you very much. 

Chair Anderson: And it's good that we have it recorded, so now let's 

not lose that link. It is a complicated set of things, and it's worth going back 

and perusing that periodically to be sure you understand where everything 

fits in. So, --

Member Clawson: Andy, this is Brad. 
16

Chair Anderson: Yeah. 

Member Clawson: Andy, I just wanted --

Chair Anderson: Yes, go ahead. 

Member Clawson: I just wanted to mention -- I'm sure that 

Rashaun probably will -- but anyway, Rashaun just set out the set 33 for us 

to make our pick. I just wanted to remind everybody that we need to get 

those picked and get those back to her by the close of business, I think it 

was, the 13th or something like that. But we need to get those set 33 -- get 

our picks on those and send those back into Rashaun. That's all. 

Chair Anderson: Okay, thanks. So, if there's no other updates, 

Rashaun, on let's move on to discussion about December. 

PLANS FOR THE DECEMBER 2023 BOARD MEETING

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Yeah, that's -- that's fine. I did want to follow 

up. You know, there were questions raised about, you know, what could be 

presented at -- at Lawrence Livermore, but given a number of variables, the 

recommendation at this point is that the -- the meeting would need to occur 

virtually. And, you know, there are a couple of reasons for that. 

First of all, there's the issue of attendance and Board Members who 

are able to make it out for that travel versus Board Members who -- who 

aren't able to make it. And they're a sizable enough number -- there's a 

sizable enough number of folks who are not able to make it to, you know, 

transition the meeting to virtual -- to a virtual platform. 

The other issue is that the content for the agenda, at least what I'm 

projecting now will be the agenda, is the content is quite light. So, with 
17

those -- just those two things together, in addition to the fact that the 

Lawrence Livermore petitioners and staff don't tend to attend those 

meetings, it makes it very difficult to justify an in-person meeting and the 

travel costs that would come with that. And of course, we're -- the 

meeting's also scheduled around the holidays. Travel might be an issue 

from a weather standpoint and so forth and so on. So, we're transitioning to 

a virtual platform for that. Are there any questions about that? 

Member Clawson: This is Brad. 

Member Ziemer: This is Ziemer. Rashaun, I think that makes a lot 

of sense. I -- I'm glad you're able to do it that way because of the -- both 

the agenda and the travel issues that time of the year. And -- and again, 

the -- at least in the past, the -- the lack of interest in the general public out 

there in terms of what we would like to do. And the only other -- other way 

we've enhance those kinds of situations is a tour of the facility, and that 

wouldn't be doable at this late in the game for Lawrence Livermore. So, 

thank you. 

Dr. Roberts: Sure. Absolutely. A good point. 

Member Clawson: Rashaun, this is Brad. I just want to throw out --

Dr. Roberts: Go ahead. 

Member Clawson: I just want to throw out there that I hope that 

everybody remembers that this isn't really for us, our convenience. This is 

for the people that we're representing on this. I understand about the 

workload. I understand about this -- you know, this is -- I think a lot of our 

issues going out to these places, because there's not enough notification 

going out to them. Every place that we have gone out to and try to meet 
18

publicly, all of a sudden, after the meeting, people are saying we didn't even 

know that there was people coming into town. I hope that we'll take a look 

at that. 

But the other thing too is always remember that this isn't for us. This 

is for the people that we're representing and doing all this. And these inperson meetings are important. All I've got to say. 

Dr. Roberts: Sure. 

Chair Anderson: Yeah, I would --

Unidentified Speaker: (Indiscernible) --

Chair Anderson: -- face-to-face meetings are -- they're especially 

important if we're going to be voting on establishing a new definition. And I 

understand. I understand what you're saying about all of this Paul (sic), and 

I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm just -- another thing too is we have been basically 

on hiatus for the last couple of years, because nothing has really been 

moving with any of this stuff because of the cyber security, because of 

COVID. Because of all of this stuff, we have not had a lot of material coming 

in or going out. And we're just starting to get -- just like everybody else, 

we're starting to get started back up again. And I -- I do know the 

importance of these public meetings. Make sure that, you know, as we go 

forward, we think about that and we think about the people that we're 

representing on that. Thank you. 

Member Frank: This is Arthur Frank. I just have a question based 

on what Rashaun said. The meeting had been scheduled for two days on the 

6th and the 7th. Is it still going to be a two-day meeting, or should we plan 

on just one day since you said it was light? 
19

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Well, thank you. Yes, that's what we need to 

sort of move to if people don't have any more questions or comments about 

the virtual format. 

But so far, what we have in terms of an agenda are all the typical 

program updates. I am assuming that since the Pinellas work group will 

have met, that there will be some sort of work group update for that. And I 

can defer to Brad for that if we think we want to add an agenda item for --

for a quick work update --

Member Clawson: Yes, I would. 

Dr. Roberts: -- and if so, how long. 

Member Clawson: I -- I'm thinking 35 to 40 minutes. I'm just --

you know, until we get into the work group there, I -- I would least give us 

an hour to be able to go over there because I don't know of NIOSH's 

response or anything else, plus I don't know if NIOSH will have enough time 

to be able to respond with a level of confidence or whatever. So, if -- if we 

have -- if NIOSH has anything to say on it, I would say at least 45 minutes 

to an hour, what I would say. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. 

Member Clawson: Plus, I'd like -- I'd like to be able to have a time 

to be able to -- because this is the first Pinellas meeting we've had quite a 

long time. 

Chair Anderson: M&C will be --

(Whereupon, multiple Board Members speak simultaneously.) 

Chair Anderson: -- M&C will be meeting on December 6th, so that 

doesn't need to be everybody. 
20

Dr. Roberts: Okay. 

Mr. Nelson: If I could back up again, Brad. I did want to give you a 

little bit of a update on Pinellas. Can you hear me? 

Member Clawson: Okay. 

Mr. Nelson: I was gonna let you know that we are planning to 

respond to SC&A's interim review of our evaluation reports. So, we have 

that in the final stages. So, we'll get that to the work group, as well as the 

petitioner and IREP well prior to the meeting. 

Member Clawson: I understand that. Thank you, Chuck. I 

appreciate that. Yeah, that -- that -- I didn't know if you guys were able to 

go through it and stuff like that before it got out publicly or whatever. So, I 

appreciate that update. 

Mr. Nelson: Okay, thank you. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. And given that, Brad, you still think an hour on 

the December agenda is sufficient? 

Member Clawson: I -- yes, I do, at this time.

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Great. 

Unidentified speaker: Also, --

Dr. Roberts: -- other group --

Member Beach: Rashaun, this is Josie. Thinking about the 

procedure subcommittee. 

Dr. Roberts: Yeah. 

Member Beach: Have you got down for some time? 

Dr. Roberts: That's what I was about to ask is --

Member Beach: Okay. 
21

Dr. Roberts: -- whether or not you -- you wanted the agenda item 

and for how long. 

Member Beach: I think we were going to go with a -- like, a 

background on what the procedure subcommittee's been up to for the past 

year and a half. We haven't really done that. We're just been catching up. 

Kathy, I'm going to ask you -- defer to you for time -- time since you 

were putting together the presentation. 

Ms. Behling: Yes, Josie. This is Kathy. I am putting together the 

presentation. I would say we maybe need 30 minutes, 45 at the very most, 

but I think 30 minutes for this particular -- just the accomplishments that 

the subcommittee has been making in our tracking system and the new 

work that we're going to be working on. So, I think 30 minutes should be 

adequate. 

Member Beach: And Kathy, let me just -- and Rashaun. Let -- let's 

go with the 45 minutes just because there may be some questions about 

some of the different things that we've been working on and the -- the sub -

- or the Board hasn't really had a chance to weigh in on some of the 

different topics, I believe. And so, you feel like that would be okay? 

Ms. Behling: Yes. I can certainly talk for 45 minutes. 

Member Beach: And I don't even know if you need to talk, but 

maybe at least leave some time for questions. If your presentation's about 

30 minutes then... 

Ms. Behling: Okay, that's fine. 

Member Beach: Would that be okay? 

Ms. Behling: Sure. 
22

Member Beach: Thank you. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay, great. Let's see, in terms of Metals and Controls, 

would you want time, Josie, for an update for that? 

Member Beach: Boy, that's a tough one. Maybe a brief update. I 

don't know if we'll have time. It's -- it -- that's a tough one. I'm not sure. 

We may be ready to bring it to the full board by that meeting. It's just hard 

to say. 

Dr. Roberts: Well, logistically since the M&C would be meeting the 

day before, we would not have enough time to get the materials to --

Member Beach: Correct. 

Dr. Roberts: -- full Board that would be needed for them to get the 

background on it. 

Member Beach: That's -- yeah. At least maybe work for that, yes. 

Dr. Roberts: So, like 15 minutes? 30 minutes? 

Member Beach: Yes, I would -- I would say 15 unless SC&A and 

NIOSH wanna put some time in. 

(Whereupon, multiple attendees speak simultaneously.) 

Mr. Barton: This is Bob with -- this is Bob with SC&A. I -- we have a 

M&C response paper that's fairly imminent and certainly will be out before 

the meeting on the 6th. But I think it's -- again, that's the day before to 

really turn around and -- and present material that had been discussed the 

day before and maybe not adjudicated, I think a brief update would be wise 

rather than really trying to dig in and provide a broader context. 

Member Beach: Yeah, I -- I agree, Bob. Thanks. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. So, maybe a --
23

Mr. Barton: (Indiscernible) --

Member Beach: Okay. Yeah, 15 minutes. 

Dr. Roberts: Fifteen minutes, okay. Sounds good. We also have the 

Board work session, which is typically allocated for about an hour in the 

agenda. And that's what I have. Does anyone else have agenda items that 

they'd like on the December agenda beyond what we've already talked 

about?

Ms. Gogliotti: Rashaun, this is Rose. Dave Kottelchuck had asked 

me to put together a PowerPoint presentation for him, so I suspect he will 

want some time to present. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. And do you have an approximate number of 

minutes he'd like on the agenda or that you think he'd like for that? 

Ms. Gogliotti: I don't. Probably at least 30 minutes. 

Dr. Roberts: About 30 minutes. Okay. All right. We'll just put --

these are tentative, so we'll just put it down for now. All right. Anything 

else that would need to be added? Okay. So, --

Member Frank: -- gather -- are we talk -- are we talking about a 

one-day meeting now, and if it is one day, --

Dr. Roberts: Yeah. 

Member Frank: -- is it on the 6th or the 7th? 

Dr. Roberts: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to come to. So, if there 

aren't any additional agenda items that people have to propose, it seems to 

me that this isn't going to be any more than one day. So, given that Metals 

and Controls would be meeting on the 6th -- one thing that we do have to 

work in is an hour or so for annual ethics training, which we could probably 
24

do the afternoon of December 6th for all Board Members. And then 

December 7th would be the day of the full-Board meeting. 

Member Beach: Sounds good to me. 

Dr. Roberts: How does that -- okay. So, does that answer your 

question, Arthur? 

Member Frank: Yes, thank you. So, and -- and the meeting would 

run till 5:00 or 6:00 in -- in the afternoon? 

Dr. Roberts: Probably. I mean, I have to put the times to actual --

you know, --

Member Frank: Fair. 

Dr. Roberts: -- actual -- you know, to in order to -- to figure that 

out, but probably --

Member Frank: Well, and then --

Dr. Roberts: -- something like that. It would be ending 5:00 or 6:00 

on the 7th. 

Member Frank: Right. Okay. Thank --

Chair Anderson: That would be, remember, 6:00 on the East Coast. 

Member Frank: Yeah. 

Dr. Roberts: Yeah, East Coast time. 

Member Martinez: Hey, this is Nicole. Just a reminder -- not a 

reminder, probably ought to know. I -- my teaching schedule is Tuesday, 

Thursday, so the 7th is fine, but I'll have to step away for probably two 

hours during the day because it's finally presentations week. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. I think -- all right. Any other questions or 

comments related to the agenda for December? 
25

Unidentified Speaker: Right, right. (Indiscernible) --

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Well, thank you. Andy, back to you. 

Chair Anderson: Okay. Are there any other issues people want to 

raise? I think this discussion has shown us that it is wise to go with a virtual 

meeting in December, that it is a little light. There are gonna be some 

interesting discussions there, --

(Whereupon, an unidentified speaker speaks off the record in a 

separate conversation.) 

Chair Anderson: -- I think. I think we're -- we're in pretty good 

shape to look for -- start thinking about a spring meeting face to face for 

sure. 

Member Ziemer: Well, Andy, this is Ziemer. Could I ask one other 

question -- just popped into my mind. It seemed to me that there was 

another round of nominations for the -- for Board membership. Do we know 

what -- where that stands? 

Dr. Roberts: No. I'm sorry, Andy --

Chair Anderson: No. 

Dr. Roberts: -- but no, we haven't heard anything back yet. 

Chair Anderson: But you're --

Dr. Roberts: -- that's --

Chair Anderson: -- correct -- nominations were sent or the -- or 

potential nominees were all sent down and it's now just time passing. We 

haven't heard anything. 

Member Ziemer: Is it --

Chair Anderson: Hopefully, we would --
26

Member Ziemer: Is it in the hands of the White House now, or --

Chair Anderson: (Indiscernible) --

Member Ziemer: -- is it still in -- in seat -- in NIOSH, or do we know 

that? 

Dr. Roberts: No, it's not in NIOSH at this point. 

Unidentified Speaker: What? 

Member Ziemer: Okay. Just wondering. 

Unidentified Speaker: (Indiscernible) --

Dr. Roberts: I'm sorry, is somebody's trying to say something? 

Unidentified Speaker: I can't hear you. 

Dr. Roberts: Okay. Someone is off mute. If everybody could --

Unidentified Speaker: -- no, no, can you --

Dr. Roberts: -- please -- mute please? Yeah. 

Unidentified Speaker: -- any day, really. This -- this call is almost 

over, and I'll be down. 

Dr. Roberts: So, I was just gonna say we were hoping, you know, 

that we would be hearing something, you know, well in advance of the 

spring Board meeting, but there's no way to tell how long it'll take. 

Member Ziemer: Okay. Thank you. 

Chair Anderson: Hopefully, we'll have a budget by then. 

Okay. Any other issues? If not, free up the day for everybody, and I 

would accept a motion to adjourn. 

Member Frank: So moved. 

Member Beach: Second. 

Chair Anderson: Okay. Anybody opposed to adjourning the 
27

meeting? So, unanimously we will adjourn the meeting and look forward to 

the updates that will be coming along. So, thank you very much for calling 

in.

(Whereupon, the meeting was adjourned at 11:41 a.m. EST.)