From: Terrie Barrie [ 

Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 1:08 PM 

To: To: . !; Munn, Wanda I. {CDC/NIOSH/DCAS); Phillip Schofield; Bill Field; Dr. James 

Melius 

Cc: Katz, Ted (CDC/NIOSH/OD); Rutherford, LaVon B. (CDC/NIOSH/DCAS); ; Dan McKeel 

Subject: Review of Rocky Flats worker interview concerning magnesium/thorium alloy 

Hello Dr. Kotelchuck, 

Please see the attached memo developed by myself and Dr. McKeel. Despite the short notice, we would 

appreciate ifthis could be discussed during the February 9, 2017 wqrk group teleconference. 

Thank you for your consideration. 

Terrie Barrie 

ANW AG/Rocky Flats SEC co-petitioner 

Daniel W. McKee!, Jr., MD 

SINEW cofounder 

Phone: 
Dear Dr. Kotelchuck: 

Dr. Dan McKee! recently received new evidence via the FOIA process from 

unclassified notes of a secure phone interview that NIOSH/SC&A/ORAU 

conducted with a Rocky Flats worker ( ,\ and shared the dopument with me. 

The worker interviewed is known to us. 

1. The secure interview concerns the suspected use of large quantities of 

magnesium-thorium alloy metal plates at the Rocky Flats CO plant in Building 

440 (Transport Modification Center or TMC). This worker had previously 

addressed the ABRWH in a Public Comment, stating he worked at the RF Mod 

Center for The worker requested the Board grant him a secure 

interview. 

2. The worker testimony (Name redacted PA-cleared copy attached) from Dan 

McKeel's CDC FOIA 17-00140) is that he bolted plates of metal housed in 4 x 4 

ft. wood boxes marked "RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL" to railroad cars and semitrucks for shielding and or strengthening during his work in Building 440 (TMC). 

His supervisor stated the metal in the wood boxes was safe and was NOT 

radioactive (see discussion of HK-31 and HM-21 alloys in [41). According to the 

interview notes, this process occurred at the Rocky Flats plant between 1984 

and 1989. Additionally, the worker relayed in the interview that he was well 

acquainted with depleted uranium and its use in Building 440. It is logical to 

assume that unidentified material housed in 4 x 4 ft. wood boxes marked 

"RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL" was not depleted uranium. 

3. The worker's description in item [2] fits perfectly the extant literature and 

affidavit testimony of a dozen Dow Madison, IL workers who manufactured 

magnesium-thorium (2.5-4.0%) alloys HK-31 and HM-21 and shipped same to 

many military, commercial and DOE EEOICPA sites. In particular, they are 100% 

certain a major client was the Rocky Flats Plant on CO, where Dow Chemical 

was prime contractor form 1952 to 1975. The same Dow IL workers testified RF 

shipped Mg-thor scraps.back to the Dow Madison IL site and ·remelted it. The 

workers cited the B-Mac and Anderson trucking companies as ones that shipped 

HK-31 Mg-thor alloy plates to RF. 

4. Moreover, certain NRC regulations exempt Mg-thor with less than 4% thorium 

for use in commercial product such as lantern mantles and welding rods. 

However, Mg-Thor is definitely radioactive, so the RF worker interview 

demonstrates that workers were being deliberately mislead by the supervisor. 
{ 

5. DOE HSS chief Glenn Podonsky on January 8, 2008, wrote a letterto DOL 

DEEOIC chief Peter Turcic urging that Dow Madison IL sit be designated as a 

thorium AWE EEOICPA site based on the use of mag-thorium HK-31/HM-21 type 

alloys in certain classified nuclear weapons. DOE knew that the mag-thor was 

used in nuclear weapons through 1969, but could not state it was used at Dow 

Madison IL site other than during years 1957-1960, which coincides with the 

current period for the Dow SEC-00079. 

6. You may also note that, as with Building 460, workers in Building 440 were 

i:1ot monitored for radiation exposure. 

Based on this new information, we ask that additional interviews be held with 

Rocky Flats personnel who were knowledgeable especially about shipping 

manifests of metal products that arrived in wooden boxes marked RADIOACTIVE 

that shipped both to and from Illinois from Dow Chemical plant {aka Dow Metal 

Products, Dow Madison site through 1975; later Conalco and Spectrulite 

Consortium). 

We also ask that the secure interviewee ( ) should be reinterviewed with these 

new more specific facts about the radioactive plates being magnesium-thorium 

alloy steel plates from the Dow Chemical plant located in Madison IL as the 

prime focus of the second interview. The first interview was alluded to as 

showing no evidence of mag-thor use at RF by ORUA co-authors Bogard and 

Stempfley. 

Sincerely, 

Terrie Barrie (RF SEC co-petitioner) 


Dan McKeel {Dow IL SEC co-petitioner) 


enclosure: secure - ·· _ 4 page interview from CDC FOIA 17-00140 

Terrie Barrie 

ANWAG 

Daniel W. McKee!, Jr., MD 


SINEW 

ICb)(S)Rooj FJats Interview , . December 13, 2013 

Interview Questions - RFP Mg-Th Plates .,,. 


Interyifw Participants: LaVon Rutherford (DCAS), James Bogard (ORAU1),Jo4F~ 


(SC&A, via secure telephone)~(b)(6) kintetviewee) · . . 


Required Proiect Statement: Please be informed that your participation in this discussion is 

voluntary. Information you provide will be treated in a confidentialttlalUler and will not be 

attributed to you in a public manner withoutyour express permission. P~exercise judgment 

myom answers and do not disclose or divulge any information that you know to be classffi.ecl or 

be security sensitiye. Thi$ project is based on working with unclassified information. However, 

the information you provide may be shared with officials from NIOSH. other fedCI8l agencies, 

.and the Advisory Board on Radiation and Wotker Health who are involved .in implementing 

E.EOICPA. In addition, information that you provide may be referenced (without identifying 

. your name or personal information) in technical documents that are posted on the NIOSH 

website and made available to the public. 

NIOS1IIIJCAS StaJemmt; Thank you for takhlg the time to speak with us today. We .really 

appreciate your help. This interview is being conducted as part ofthe follow up to an SEC 

Petition Evaluation for the RQclcy Flats Plant. You have been.selected as an~with 

intimate. knowledge ofthe operations at the RFP site. Please note this interview and your 

responses are not a formal affidavit, or legal document, but a tool to assist NIOSH and/or its 

contractors in understanding the site•s operations and/or radiation monitoring practices. Since 

ibis site was part ofthe DOE Nuclear Weapons comp~ex, there are certain restrictions as to what 

can be discussed here today in an uncontrolled area (open furu:rn). We ask that you not disclose 

any sensitive or potentially sens~ mfurmation with us today. Ifyou believe this type Qf 

information is necessary to 9ur understanding·of the site operations and/or radiation,monitormg 

practices, we will be happy to arrange a follow-up interview with you at a secure federal facility 

ofyour choosing where you will be allowed to discuss sensitive information. Do you have any 

questions? Do yau wish to continue or do you request we conduct this interview ina secure 

Federal facility? . 

General Questions; 

1. We are perfonmlig this interview to follow-up on issues related to the Board review of 

the SEC00192-RFP petition evaluation. Please inform us ofyour employment period(s) 

·at RFP and your work ~ocations/responsibilities/job titles during those periods. 

You indicated that you started at Rocky Flats onjCb)(6) ]as a V.ehicle modification 

mechanic working in Building 334 supporting uncl88sified work. You discussed that you 

were transferred to Building 440 in 1978 receiving a QCiearance supporting tJte ATMX 

rail car modijications on the ~ght shift. Your work involved the addition ofvarious deterrent 

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Flats lntemew 

December 13; 2013 

_Int , ons - RFP Mg-Tb Plates .,,. devices fur SSTs (safe. secure tramports) including tracto~-~ers and tailcars. You indicated 

there was an active R&D program involving armor and deterrem: designs. Test panels were 

fabricated at Rocky Flats and sent to fut destructive testing. The Modification Center 

grew from an operation working out ofthe parking lot at Building 334 to employing over 100 

people in Buildings 440 and 439 with some support work in Building 664. You informed us 

that the primary customer ofthe fucility was the Sandia Transportation Safeguards Division 

and principally involved SSTs. In 1984 a special project was petformed involving depleted 

uranium punching and fabrication. This was performed in the General Shop area ofBuilding 

440 and required 'DOD security cl~.Employees were assigned to 'Temporary 

' 	 Sheettnetal Worker Classification" for the duration ofthe work assignment. This work was 

usually concealed from other workers and perfonned during off-shift hours. Infotmation on 

this work was passed on a 'need-to--know' basis. You informed us that from 1984--1986 DU 

was worked in the Modification Center and workers were informed. that DU had no real 

hazards. A 110-ton Pacific press break used to perform "gang-punching" ofthe metal 

sheets. The processing mostly involved punching ofthe 118 inch thick DU plate$, and 

involved very little grinding. 

You informed us that Building 440 was originally used fur shipping of high level waste and 

pit staging. It had a tbree-stage HEPA ventilation system and a storage vault that was later 

turned into a shop. At the time the Building was used by the Vehicle Modification Group it 

was a 'cold' (i.e .• non-radiological) building. The plant Radiological Control Technici8IIS 

were unable to access the Modification Group work area because ofPSAP (Personal Security 

Awareness Program- high security) clearance requirements, which the 400-Area RCTs did 

not have. Because of.the clearance requirements, there was only intermittent RCT monitoring 

in the facility. You relayed as the project grew from the mid to 1980s, there were a 

number ofadditions made to the building (facility almost doubled in size) and included 

customers such as the Army and Air Force. The building additions required·penetrations into 

contaminated walls and into the vault - the walls that were contaminated had purple print on 

them that.marked they were contaminated. The limited surveys performed by the RCTs did 

identify some Pu and gross alpha contamination that required cleanUp. Even though some 

oontamioation was discovered during addition construction. the building was cleaned and 

decontaq:,ioated and·alwa,ys -~as a radiologically cold building. Over the operational 

period the workers wore security badges without dosimeters and had very little. ifany internal 

or external personal monitoring-maybe a bioassay sample every few yem:. but no routine 

bioassay monitoring. 

You informed us that you were reassigned to another group when the Mod Center closed in 

1993, and noticed that the press brake that was~in the DU punching was moved ol,lt$ide 

and WI.IS covered ~use it was contaminated. 

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• 

.Flats Interview 

December 13, 2013 

.lntem. estions - RFP M~.,.Th Plates 

... 

2. Are you aware of the existence ofMg-'i'b ADoy material at RFP? 

With the knowledge ofvast armor :installations in the majority ofbuildings, It's bard to say. 

Ouard shacks, vaults, vestibules, velμcles, barriers - ahnost all contained a sort ofannot or 

reinforced impenetrable material designed to protect and secure personnel or material.You 

indicated that you had never heard ofMagnesium-Thorium (Mg-Th) alloy and werenoi aware 

ofthe existence ofany Mg-Th alloy at RFP-Modification Cettter. You were aware of4x4 

foot square crates being brought in that were marked\~ " radioactive but you were not aware of 

what the composition ofthe material was. We were under the impression this was ~ 

armor plates. We formed this material into various shape configurations by shearing. 

punching and bending. When we did question what the material was. we were told w; did. not 

have the need to know. You informed us that you did not perfonn any welding on that 

material but that llllY scrap that was coll~ was shipped presumably to Sandia. You 

indicated that the management told you·that. this material was not monitor()() because .it was 

not radioactive; it was probably just coming from a radiologically controlled area. 

a. Ifso, are you aware ofwhere this material originated from (either on-site or offsitt)? 


Some material mbricated by punching and bending originated offsite and did not 


remain onsite. 


b. 	 Ifyou are aware, can you relay where this material was handled at RFP? 

Only at Mod Center Building 440. 

c. 	 Can yon explain the purpose of this material or what operation it is wu used for 

at.RFP? 

Test panels,-an:nor. 

d. Do you know the time frame .of operations relating to this material -at .RFP? 

1984 -. l 989 

e. Were there any special controls or monitoring related to operations at RFP? 

Restricted by RCT access. 

In your closing statements, you discussed a union concern regarding work with radioactive 

materials on Building 440,, that you did not do any grinding in 440, and that there was a fire 

hazard concern associated with uranium. You indicated that the test panel projects at Rocky 

Flats occurred from about 19&4 thro1,1gh about 1989. As far as incidents, you recalled that an 

SST and aspent fuel rod container had to be sandblasted for cleanup purposes aflet a deterrence 

system failure. There-was very little RCT coverage at the Modification Facility and you were . 

not clear ifthe trailers were surveyed every titne came to Rocky Flats; you had heard rumor 

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Flats Interview 


o_ec_. _em_be.r 13, 2013_ _
 lnteJ'VI esttons ... RFP ~g-Tb P1ates 

' 

thatsome trailers were contaminated with tritimn. You notedthat the Kansas Cit{~~ (KCP) 

and Sandia were major customets ofthe Modification Facility and that there· was acomidetable 

technology tJ:ansfer to KCP as the ·Rocky Flats Modification Facility winding down. 

operations. You informed- us that·nearing the. end ofthe op$1tions period at the Modifitlnion 

Center (1988-1990), metal tops were Welded to~.containers fille4 with contaminated w~­

-perfornied with R.CT coverage. 

. ' You indicated that moSt ofthe people that worked on the DOD special ro 'ect in the 

:Modification Shop with you were gone .now, bUt you did mentioned (b)(G) - -_· (manager)and 

~(b)(6) · las individuals that may have other pertinent info+31ion. · 

You also .indicated that the early for the work performed at th,~ Rocky Flats Modilicatio~ 

Center were developed at .Sandia;..Albuquerque. You discussed that there may be relevant -_ 

records at Sandia (the <fusfgn agency) ·$hd-Bendix/Kansas City (took over the Mo~on 

Contract after Rocky Flats). You informed us that the A.TMX 500 rail cars were built before 

Rocky Flats built the Modification Ccnt~r (which modified these rail cats}, but you were ri.ot 

aware·ofwlio originally designed or built~e cars; 

( 


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