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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL

+ + + + +

NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR OCCUPATIONAL

SAFETY AND HEALTH

+ + + + +

ADVISORY BOARD ON RADIATION AND

WORKER HEALTH

+ + + + +

89th MEETING

+ + + + +

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 2013

The meeting convened 

telephonically at 11:00 a.m., Eastern Time, 

James M. Melius, Chairman, presiding.

PRESENT:

JAMES M. MELIUS, Chairman

HENRY ANDERSON, Member

JOSIE BEACH, Member

BRADLEY P. CLAWSON, Member

R. WILLIAM FIELD, Member

DAVID KOTELCHUCK, Member

RICHARD LEMEN, Member

JAMES E. LOCKEY, Member

WANDA I. MUNN, Member

JOHN W. POSTON, SR., Member

DAVID B. RICHARDSON, Member

GENEVIEVE S. ROESSLER, Member

PHILLIP SCHOFIELD, Member

LORETTA R. VALERIO, Member

PAUL L. ZIEMER, Member

TED KATZ, Designated Federal Official
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REGISTERED AND/OR PUBLIC COMMENT PARTICIPANTS2

ADAMS, NANCY, NIOSH Contractor

AL-NABULSI, ISAF, DOE

BARRIE, TERRIE

FITZGERALD, JOE, SC&A

HINNEFELD, STU, DCAS

KOTSCH, JEFF, DOL

LIN, JENNY, HHS

MAKHIJANI, ARJUN, SC&A

McKEEL, DAN

NETON, JIM, DCAS

OSTROW, STEVE, SC&A

RAMSPOTT, JOHN

RUTHERFORD, LAVON, DCAS

STIVER, JOHN, SC&A

WARREN, BOB
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CONTENTS 3

Roll-call - Mr. Katz, DFO .................. 4

Welcome - Dr. Melius, Chair ................ 4

Recording Absent Member Votes from December 

Meeting and Board GSI Recommendation -

Mr. Katz, DFO, Dr. Melius, Chair

Review of September Board Meeting Public 

Comment Responses - All Members ............ 8

Special Exposure Cohort (SEC) Petition Status 

Update - Mr. Rutherford, DCAS ............. 16

Board Correspondence - Dr. Melius, Chair .. 17

Plans for the March 2013 Board Meeting

Agenda - all Members ...................... 18

Updates from Work Groups and Subcommittees

(as necessary) - WG/SC Chairs ............ 23
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4

1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

2 (11:00 a.m.)

3 MR. KATZ: This is the Advisory 

4 Board on Radiation and Worker Health 

5 teleconference. Let's get started with roll 

6 call, Board Members.

7 (Roll Call.)

8 MR. KATZ: Okay. The agenda for 

9 the meeting is posted on the NIOSH website 

10 under the Meeting section and Jim, it's your 

11 meeting.

12 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, and I 

13 guess I, according to the agenda, I get to 

14 say welcome and then I turn the agenda back 

15 over to you for recording the absentee, 

16 absent member votes from the December 

17 meeting. 

18 MR. KATZ: Exactly. Okay, thank 

19 you. So, we had five petitions at the 

20 December meeting that we voted and acted on 

21 and we had a number of absentee members, a 

22 different number for different votes but, I 
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5

1 am going to register those votes now all and 

2 I think in order. 

3 For Hanford -- and the votes were 

completed on January 7th 4 , 2013. So, for 

5 Hanford, the final vote was 14 to 1. The one 

6 opposed being Gibson to deny the petition. 

7 And Battelle it was unanimous to approve the 

8 petition. For GSI it was 9 to 8 to deny the 

9 petition. And the yeas were Anderson, Field, 

10 Griffin, Lockey, Melius, Munn, Poston 

11 Roessler and Ziemer. And the nays were 

12 Beach, Clawson, Gibson, Kotelchuck, Lemen, 

13 Richardson and Schofield and Valerio. 

14 Joslyn, the final vote was unanimous to 

15 approve the petition for a limited Class and 

16 the Board will continue to consider the 

17 remainder of the petitioning Class. And for 

18 Baker Brothers, the same, unanimous. The 

19 Board is going to consider the remainder of 

20 the petitioning Class. And that covers all 

21 the votes. And I think Dr. Melius will read 

22 the letter into the record, as we do 
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6

1 traditionally.

2 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. This is 

3 the letter on GSI, which we, is pretty 

4 standard, but I'll read it into the record 

5 relatively quickly. The Advisory Board on 

6 Radiation and Worker Health, The Board, has 

7 evaluated Special Exposure Cohort petition 

8 00105 concerning workers at General Steel

9 Industries in Granite City, Illinois under 

10 the statutory requirements established by the 

11 Energy Employees Occupational Illness 

12 Compensation Program Act of 2000 incorporated 

13 into 42 CFR 83.13. The National Institute 

14 for Occupational Safety and Health, NIOSH, 

15 has recommended that individual dose 

16 reconstructions are feasible for all 

17 individuals who worked in any location, the 

18 General Steel Industry site, located on 1417 

19 State Street, Granite City, Illinois from 

January 1st 20 1953 through, January, excuse me, 

through June 30th 21 1966 and/or during the 

residual radiation period from July 1st 22 1966 
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7

through December 31st 1 1992. NIOSH has found 

2 that it has access to adequate exposure 

3 monitoring and other information necessary to 

4 do individual dose reconstructions with

5 sufficient accuracy for members of this group 

6 and therefore a Class covering this group 

7 should not be added to the SEC. The Board 

8 concurs with this determination. Based on 

9 these considerations and the discussion at 

10 the December 11th-12th 2012 Board meeting 

11 held in Knoxville, Tennessee, the Board 

12 recommends that this Class not be added to 

13 the SEC. Enclosed is the documentation from 

14 the Board meetings where this SEC Class was 

15 discussed, documentation includes copies of 

16 the petition NIOSH review thereof and related 

17 materials. If any of these items are 

18 unavailable at this time they will follow 

19 shortly. So again, that pretty much is our 

20 standard letter on, for this type of action.

21 MEMBER ANDERSON: Hi, it's just 

22 to log me in, this is Andy, I'm sorry I'm a 
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8

1 little late. 

2 MR. KATZ: Oh great, welcome 

3 Andy. CHAIRMAN MELIUS: 

4 Welcome, yes. 

5 MEMBER ANDERSON: We lost all of 

6 our phones yesterday so I'm on an alternative 

7 phone service. Somebody cut the major cable 

8 during construction. 

9 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: We have some 

10 sympathy. A lot of the phone service in 

11 lower Manhattan is still out.

12 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes, I know 

13 right. 

14 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Anyway, we are 

15 glad you reconnected.

16 MEMBER ANDERSON: Okay.

17 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: The next item 

18 on our agenda, is the review of the September 

19 Board Meeting public comment responses and 

20 those were sent to you by Ted a few weeks 

21 ago, I believe, when he sent them. I am 

22 going to refer to the, there is a spreadsheet 
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9

1 that is about five pages that lists a total

2 of sixty-nine separate comments. I'll 

3 probably go through them in groups cause I 

4 don't think we necessarily need to spend a 

5 lot of time there, on them, because most of 

6 the referrals are pretty straightforward on 

7 these. So I'll go through by groups and if 

8 anybody has, and I'll ask if anybody has 

9 comments on that particular group. 

10 The first three are related to 

11 Los Alamos, it was Congressman Luhan and 

12 Michelle Ortiz speaking on behalf of Senator 

13 Udall and then the petitioner and it was I 

14 don't think any response was necessary on 

15 those. Thanking the Board or NIOSH for the 

16 support on that petition. The next number, 

17 there are a large number going from number 

18 four to number forty-seven, that are related 

19 to, mostly to Rocky Flats and a few to the 

20 Savannah River site. But most of them, 

21 almost all of the others, all of the others 

22 are Rocky Flats. These were essentially all 
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10

1 referrals, many of them were informational 

2 and were referred to both DCAS and the Work 

3 Group as they are following up. I don't know 

4 if anybody, Mark's not on the phone, but I 

5 know Ted brought these to his attention also 

6 and I think we can, I know they are following 

7 up on Rocky Flats, there has been activity 

8 related to that. Anybody have questions or 

9 comments on those? 

10 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Yes, Dave 

11 Kotelchuck. On number 31, if [identifying 

12 information redacted] from Rocky Flats, she 

13 alleges bonuses for claim denials, poor 

14 oversight, et cetera. There was no response. 

15 My feeling is that it would be a good idea to 

16 send her a letter saying no there are no 

17 bonuses for claims denials or approvals and 

18 if she has evidence of such, she should 

19 present it to the appropriate legal folks. I 

20 don't, I mean I think a charge of corruption 

21 is serious and I think it deserves a 

22 response. It may just be a response that 
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11

1 there are no bonuses for claims denied. 

2 There are no bonuses for claim denials or 

3 approvals. What do others think? Jim, what 

4 do you think?

5 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I don't have 

6 any problems with responding. I don't recall 

7 details of the comments, but I would agree 

8 with you that some sort of response would be 

9 in order. Rather than to sort of ignore the 

10 claim and if she does have specific 

11 information --

12 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Well, if she 

13 does of any corruption, then it should be 

14 reported.

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Right

16 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: I have the 

17 text here if you want.

18 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I have it too 

19 online, here.

20 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: But I would 

21 urge you to write a note to her just saying, 

22 really denying that claim, that charge.
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12

1 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.

2 MEMBER CLAWSON: This is Brad. I 

3 agree with what Dave is saying. You know by 

4 not making a comment on it, is just as, you 

5 know, it looks just as bad, we have tried to 

6 do such openness with this program and 

7 everything else. I do feel it deserves a 

8 comment. 

9 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I agree and we 

10 will follow up on that then.

11 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Okay.

12 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. Thank 

13 you. Any other comments on the Rocky Flats? 

14 Almost all the others look to be mostly 

15 informational.

16 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Yes.

17 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Which is 

18 appropriate.

19 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Yes.

20 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay, starting 

21 with number 48, there are comments from Dr. 

22 McKeel. Four comments there that related to 
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13

1 basically the actions that have been taken on 

2 GSI. Again, I don't think again any response 

3 is in order there. Starting on the number 

4 52, there was a [identifying information 

5 redacted] who is the -- was speaking 

6 relationship to the Pantex and while there is 

7 no response, there is action underway on that 

8 through Brad's Work Group. So I think in 

9 essence, that is the response on that. Is 

10 that fair Brad?

11 MEMBER CLAWSON: Yes, yes it is, 

12 I was just going to suggest, you know, and I 

13 guess I don't know how to how to put this in 

14 or whatever else like that, but some of the 

15 questions that are being raised that she's 

16 brought up, we are trying to take care of in 

17 -- well in actually a phone call this 

18 afternoon and also a site data capture that 

19 we is going to help with that so. 

20 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: And yes, so 

21 she is aware of that, correct? 

22 MEMBER CLAWSON: Yes, she is.
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14

1 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, that's 

2 what -- so again I think that is the response 

3 and maybe that, Ted, maybe that should be 

4 noted in the description of the response. 

5 MR. KATZ: Yes, I'll take care of 

6 that. 

7 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, that way 

8 we've done that.

9 MEMBER CLAWSON: Jim, that does 

10 bring up a question because when I saw this 

11 like this. Should we, if we have, should we 

12 just send them to Ted? Is that what it is? 

13 I thought this was kind of being taken care 

14 of by a different group and I just wanted to 

15 make sure that if we have comments like what 

16 was just made today, how to share them.

17 MR. KATZ: Yes Brad, especially 

18 if you been in communication with a commenter 

19 like that, that's helpful for me to know. 

20 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay yes, that 

21 sounds good.

22 MR. KATZ: Thanks Brad.
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15

1 MEMBER CLAWSON: I wanted to make 

2 sure. Okay, thank you. 

3 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Items number 53 

4 through 58 really were relating to a comments 

5 from -- that Ted read into the record, from 

6 one of the petitioners related to Weldon 

7 Spring. And again I think these responses 

8 were appropriate. Any comments on those? 

9 MEMBER SCHOFIELD: Hey Jim, this 

10 is Phil, I'm on the line now. 

11 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay, good.

12 MEMBER SCHOFIELD: Thanks.

13 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Welcome. The 

14 next again, sort of a post-decision comment 

15 from a petitioner related to United Nuclear. 

16 Where we, I believe we had already taken 

17 action by that time. Again, another response 

18 on Rocky Flats just the relationship to 

19 submitting additional information on that. 

20 There was then 61-62 are related to Hangar 

21 481. Again, where we had taken action. I 

22 think it sort of more related to sort of the 
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16

1 facility definition issues, and which we had 

2 talked about. So again, I think that was 

3 referred properly for followup. Again two 

4 more comments from United Nuclear and then 

5 one more from Rocky Flats which were again, 

6 one was, the last one for Rocky Flats was 

7 giving additional information and has been 

8 referred to the Work Group and DCAS. Any 

9 comments on those? 

10 And then the final one, the final 

11 few are related to again, nuclear metals. And 

12 again was sort of information and so forth 

13 related to that and again I think. Any 

14 questions on those responses? So, again then 

15 I think that the two action items sort of out 

16 of this will be first we will look at the 

17 comments related to Rocky Flats and a 

18 response to that that is comment number 32 

19 and then Ted will also clarify the response 

20 on Pantex. Okay, LaVon, SEC petition status 

21 update.

22 MR. RUTHERFORD: All right. 
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17

1 Thank you, Dr. Melius. It's going to be a 

2 pretty quick report. I indicated at the last 

3 Board meeting that we did not have any new 

4 petitions in the qualification or evaluation 

5 phase and that has not changed. I also 

6 mentioned at the last meeting we have a 

7 couple of 83.14s to work that will make 

8 adjustments to current SECs because of 

9 changes and some other things. But those we 

10 are waiting for a claim to serve as the 

11 petitioner. We are still at that status with 

12 those 83.14s. Therefore the only SEC work 

13 for the next Board meeting will have to come 

14 from the Work Groups making recommendations 

15 to the full Board on existing petition 

16 reviews. And that, so that will be it from 

17 the SECs. I don't expect this to change much 

18 for the following Board meeting either 

19 considering that we have no new petitions in 

20 house. So that's about it from the SECs.

21 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Any 

22 questions for LaVon? Glad you found some 
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18

1 other work then LaVon on Rocky Flats.

2 MR. RUTHERFORD: Just in time 

3 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yep. Next item 

4 is Board correspondence and I don't have 

5 anything to report there. Ted, are you aware 

6 of anything?

7 MR. KATZ: No, I am not 

8 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. And 

9 then the last item is plans for the March 

10 2013 Board meeting agenda. Ted, do you want 

11 to update us on that?

12 MEMBER MUNN: Oh, you are not 

13 going to do --

14 MEMBER ZIEMER: This is Ziemer. 

15 I have a question on the, do you see the Work 

16 Group agenda item?

17 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I apologize. I 

18 was jumping too quick. Let's do the agenda 

19 and then we will come back to the Work 

20 Groups. 

21 MR. KATZ: Okay, very good. 

22 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.
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19

1 MR. KATZ: I've sent to the Board 

2 Members and the staff, an initial draft of 

3 the agenda. It is a very full day but it is 

4 just at this point one full day. We will 

5 hold off, I mean I don't think you have a 

6 hotel yet anyway. But we will hold off on 

7 travel plans until the end of this week, 

8 where we should be able to sort out. We have 

9 two SEC petitions potentially to come before 

10 the Board in March. Brookhaven, that seems 

11 likely almost certain. But the other one is 

12 Pantex and that's a little bit less certain 

13 than and in part that depends upon us sorting 

14 out we are going to achieve in an upcoming 

15 data capture. 

16 I guess there will be a data 

17 capture, the question is what that will cover 

18 and whether that relates, whether that is 

19 necessary for a reporting out on any part of 

20 the remaining parts of the Pantex SEC 

21 petition. So, we have a technical call this 

22 afternoon with the staff working on Pantex 
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20

1 and by tomorrow this should be sorted out and 

2 I'll let everybody know if this stands as is. 

3 But in any event, while it is a tight 

4 schedule, I think it can be all accomplished 

5 in a day, barring the unforeseen. So are 

6 there any questions or suggestions at this 

7 point about the agenda? I haven't heard any 

8 in writing except comments that it's a full 

9 day, which it is for sure. Okay then.

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I guess the 

11 only, I mean at least, I am assuming 

12 everyone, most people's preference would be 

13 to have a full day, rather than to go into 

14 the next day, just simply for making flight 

15 arrangements and so forth. 

16 MEMBER MUNN: The only concern 

17 that one might have given what we have to 

18 deal with is the big unknown relative to 

19 public comment. You know we always assume 

20 that we can get done what we need to get done 

21 in the hour allotted and most of the time 

22 that's true. On the rare occasion that it 
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21

1 isn't then we find ourselves, on more than 

2 one occasion of course earlier in our 

3 history, with a serious overlap of time and 

4 it's a -- I guess the question is whether or 

5 not going from 8:30 in the morning to 6:00 at 

6 night is really conducive to paying attention 

7 to what we are doing. And to add a public 

8 comment on the bottom of that I, granted it 

9 is an unknown. We are well aware of that. 

10 It is questionable as to whether or not 

11 another half day would be a reasonable thing 

12 to do for the sake of the Board Members. 

13 MR. KATZ: So Wanda I was just 

14 trying to balance that against the 

15 possibility that Pantex would fall off and it 

16 is a possibility. In which case, you know, I 

17 think we will be tidily done within a day and 

18 Augusta isn't easy to get to because you're 

19 having to come through Atlanta or drive from 

20 Atlanta, one way or the other, so I just 

21 thought for some of the Board Members who 

22 have a lot of other commitments it seemed 
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22

1 like it would be easier to get them out first 

2 thing in the morning from Augusta, you know,

3 then carry them over until midday or 

4 whatever.

5 MEMBER MUNN: And I haven't 

6 checked the schedules, but you are correct, 

7 it is not an easy place to get in and out of, 

8 it's as bad as Hanford. But it's just 

9 worrisome when you see that schedule for our 

10 work run into 6:00.

11 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: But, I would 

12 also add that in terms of the timing, these 

13 are all, I think where's there more of an 

14 issue will, sort of be how much time there is 

15 for the Board to do things is when we run 

16 into problems predicating is how long an SEC 

17 presentation slash you know discussion slash 

18 you know vote is going to take and those can 

19 sometimes go on longer than, they are very 

20 hard to estimate. 

21 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, well that's 

22 true for almost everything we do but I'm not 
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23

1 resisting strongly just raising the concern 

2 that it's more than a long day if we end of 

3 with significant public comment it runs well 

4 into the evening.

5 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Anybody else 

6 wish to comment on that issue? 

7 MEMBER ANDERSON: Most of our 

8 first days have been long days. So, I am 

9 not sure this is any different. 

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. 

11 MEMBER ANDERSON: Clearly we 

12 can't, except for a few, couldn't get out 

13 that night. But, I think it makes it easier 

14 to get out the next day --

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.

16 MEMBER ANDERSON: -- quite easy, 

17 so I like this the way it is. 

18 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, thanks. 

19 Okay, we'll continue the plan that way and 

20 now Ted just has to find a hotel for us. 

21 MR. KATZ: Exactly, and we are 

22 making good progress there. 
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24

1 MEMBER MUNN: Good.

2 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Thank you. Now 

3 I will go back, I apologize. I was actually 

4 trying to pull up on my computer the draft 

5 Board agenda. I got ahead of myself and 

6 skipped the Work Groups and Subcommittees, so 

7 any Work Group Chairs or Subcommittee Chairs 

8 wish to give an update?

9 MEMBER BEACH: Jim this is Josie, 

10 I'll just give a real quick one for BNL. As 

11 it is on the March Agenda, one of the things 

12 we are going to be looking at actually the 

only issue for discussion on the 14th 13 is the 

14 issue of the SEC end dates. As you remember 

15 it is 1993 at this time and we are looking at 

16 additional years.

17 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. 

18 MEMBER BEACH: So we hope to 

19 bring a recommendation on that. 

20 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Good, thank 

21 you. Anybody else? 

22 MEMBER CLAWSON: Jim, this is 
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25

1 Brad. I might as well give one on Pantex, 

2 where we are headed with it. Where we are at 

3 right now is, we are looking at later years, 

4 do you remember when we put in the first part 

5 of the petition we cut out five years 

6 basically at the very end. We are looking at 

7 that and the earlier years depending upon 

8 what comes out of our phone conversation, our 

9 technical call this afternoon. It'll kind of 

10 focus down on what we really need to 

11 accomplish and go from there. It's just 

12 bringing, connecting all the dots right now 

13 and going from there. But while I'm here 

14 also too on Fernald, we have a Work Group 

coming up and on March 7th 15 we've got three to 

16 four outstanding issues that we're covering 

17 on Fernald and we got this Work Group planned 

18 and hope to make head way there. 

19 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Very good.

20 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Mark is not 

21 on the phone but the Dose Reconstruction 

22 Subcommittee met and we went over, Brad was 
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26

1 there and myself, and we went over a number -

2 - sets eight and nine, reviewed them and I am 

3 sure that Mark will give a report at the 

4 Augusta meeting.

5 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Good. 

6 MEMBER MUNN: And I was on the 

7 phone for that meeting Dave. 

8 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Oh, yes 

9 indeed, I, yes indeed. Pardon me that is 

10 absolutely true. 

11 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Anybody else? 

12 I have an update, the SEC Evaluation Work 

13 Group will be having a conference call, I 

believe it's the 22nd 14 of February, to 

15 discuss, we have two reports from NIOSH on as 

16 far as the ten year review we are dealing 

17 with the issue of sufficient accuracy. We've 

18 gotten the last few weeks, two reports from 

19 NIOSH related to that, so we will have a 

20 discussion of those reports and then the plan 

21 is then to come back to the Board at the 

22 Augusta meeting to sort of present not a 
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27

1 conclusion, but sort of some idea of issues 

2 and how, some options on how we might go 

3 forward on that and get input from all the 

4 Board members on sort of how we should handle 

5 that, where we would go, who should be 

6 involved and so forth. 

7 So we have set aside about half 

8 hour at the March Board meeting to report on 

9 that and for full Board discussion. Again, I 

10 don't think it will be to try to reach a 

11 conclusion. It's more, you know, is there 

12 additional work we should have done, how 

13 should we approach this issue, so. Any 

14 other Work Group or Subcommittee chairs wish 

15 to report? 

16 MEMBER SCHOFIELD: This is Phil. 

17 On Santa Susana Field Lab, things are going 

18 to slowed down just a little bit. They just 

19 received a large volume of exposure records, 

20 but these are all on cards that they can't 

21 scan in, so they are going to have to be 

22 transcribed by hand so that is going to take 
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28

1 them quite a while. 

2 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes.

3 MEMBER SCHOFIELD: That's really, 

4 I mean, you know, the only update there is 

5 right now. 

6 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay, anybody 

7 else? 

8 MEMBER MUNN: Yes Jim, this is 

9 Wanda. Procedures has quite a significant 

10 report and an issue to bring before the full 

11 Board. If we are ready for that, I will be 

12 glad to give it now. We met Tuesday this 

13 week in Cincinnati. We had a quite full 

14 agenda. A number of the outstanding findings 

15 that we had were formally closed after we had 

16 significant discussion with NIOSH and our 

17 Contractor and the Subcommittee. And included 

18 among those final items that we were able to 

19 close were TIB-9 and TIB-70. TIB-9 is the 

20 estimation of ingestion intakes and TIB-70 

21 was the dose reconstruction during the 

22 residual radioactivity period for the AWEs. 
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29

1 Those two are fairly close. We linked them 

2 with regard to one of the items and we were 

3 able to close those out. 

4 TIB-13 geometric exposure 

5 scenario consideration for external dose 

6 reconstruction at uranium facilities and TIB7 10 which is the best estimate of internal 

8 dose reconstruction for glove box workers had 

9 been considered together for a number of 

10 issues. Those were resolved and closed. 

11 TIB-79 the occupational X-ray dose for X-rays 

12 that were taken offsite.

13 (Pause.)

14 MR. KATZ: Wanda did we lose you?

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. 

16 MR. KATZ: I'm afraid she might

17 not even realize that she is disconnected 

18 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, I think 

19 that's --

20 MEMBER ZIEMER: This is Ziemer, I 

21 can report on TBD-6000 while we are waiting 

22 for Wanda to get back or is she back now?
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30

1 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Wanda are you 

2 back yet? Wanda we can't hear you if you're 

3 on, listening. Go ahead Paul, why don't we 

4 do --

5 MEMBER ZIEMER: Okay, TBD-6000 will 

be meeting on February 22nd 6 . We have some open 

7 issues on Appendix BB, which is General Steel 

8 Industries now to consider --

9 MEMBER MUNN: Are you still there?

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, we are here 

11 now. You were, we lost you.

12 MEMBER MUNN: I had a dial tone. 

13 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay and then 

14 while we were waiting for you to call back in, 

15 Paul was starting on his TBD.

16 MEMBER MUNN: Oh good, go ahead 

17 Paul --

18 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Then we will come 

19 back to you Wanda. 

20 MEMBER ZIEMER: I will just 

21 indicate what's on our agenda for February 

22nd 22 , it's --
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31

MR. KATZ: Paul it's February 21st 1 . 

2 MEMBER ZIEMER: Okay, okay right. 

3 I better check my calendar here. Anyway, I 

4 don't want to show up a day late and a dollar 

5 short. 

6 MEMBER MUNN: We'd have trouble 

7 Paul, believe me. 

8 MEMBER ZIEMER: Appendix BB, some 

9 open issues on the issues matrix to consider. 

10 We also will have our initial look now at the 

11 issues matrix for Simonds Saw which the Board 

12 assigned to TBD-6000 at the last meeting. And 

13 then we also have Baker Brothers' residual 

14 period to consider and there's a possibility 

15 that may be on the agenda for the upcoming full 

16 Board Meeting. Those are the items before us 

17 on TBD-6000. 

18 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Good, thank you 

19 Paul. Wanda do you want to? 

20 MEMBER MUNN: Yes I'll be glad to. 

21 I trust, did you hear me through OTIB-79, the 

22 Occupational X-ray dose for --
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32

1 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: It was right in 

2 the middle of that I think you started to, lost 

3 you. 

4 MEMBER MUNN: Okay, that's fine. 

5 That essentially was the basic list of 

6 documents that we were able to close out. 

7 Earlier we had initiated our look at the 

8 overarching issues. We had wanted to make sure 

9 that what we had called the global issues or 

10 overarching issues that affected more than one 

11 side had been captured in a place where we 

12 could reconstruct what had happened. 

13 And Jim Neton has been giving us a 

14 hand with our decisions as to how to summarize 

15 what has taken place with those. He has given 

16 us, I believe we are tracking eight. I have to 

17 check that number, but I think that is correct. 

18 And we took a look at the first draft of 

19 information that we intend to populate into the 

20 database to make sure that we are able to 

21 review what has transpired and have a permanent 

22 record of how those particular issues were 
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33

1 dealt with across the complex. We also 

2 discussed several matters that were related to 

3 two newly-issued documents that SC&A has 

4 provided us relative to Hanford. The PER 

5 program reviews on Hanford TBD revisions and 

6 PER-5 as well, misinterpreted applications of 

7 external dose factors. For the Hanford dose 

8 reconstructions, those items were discussed and 

9 they are continuing along with multiple 

10 findings that we have derived from other SC&A 

11 reviews and previews of documents. Among 

12 those, we had quite a number in January that 

13 were provided by the contractor. Among them 

14 were OTIB-5. That is internal and external 

15 choice of dosimetry organ and IREP model 

16 selection by ICD-9 code. Two PROCs, two 

17 procedures, 31, Site Profile and Technical 

18 Basis Document is one and Number 61, 

19 Occupational Medical X-ray dose reconstruction 

20 for DOE sites. 

21 There was, there were a couple of 

22 other OTIBs. Twenty, use of coworker dosimetry 
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34

1 data for external dose assignment and the 

2 technical basis for MCNP report thirty-eight 

3 neutron quality factors to ICR publication 60, 

4 radiation weighting factors for respective IREP 

5 input neutron energy ranges. Now the title of 

6 that one alone is practically the entire 

7 report. So, Procedure 66 is also in that 

8 group, Quality Assurance Records Management. 

9 One of the other things that we looked at is 

10 the issue that the Subcommittee would like to 

11 bring to the Board for its consideration and 

12 its direction. We have SC&A's preliminary 

13 review of Program Evaluation Report 37, PER-37 

14 covers Ames Laboratory, TBD revisions. The

15 position that SC&A has taken and I think the 

16 Subcommittee agrees with that is that we have a 

17 problem there. The essential question has to 

18 do with the depth and level of the contractor 

19 effort that is going to be necessary to 

20 complete the assignment for this PER. 

21 There have been multiple revisions 

22 of the Site Profile review for Ames. It is not 
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35

1 long but it can be fairly complex. They've 

2 been issued prior to the revision that is being 

3 covered by the PER but none of those preceding 

4 revisions has ever been reviewed by SC&A. This 

5 is the contractor's first look at Ames 

6 Laboratory and the Site Profile. So, they feel 

7 that without reviewing the preceding documents 

8 it is not feasible to do the kind of in-depth 

9 review for the PER that is necessary. So the 

10 review, the reviews of all those preceding 

11 documents hasn't been authorized in our current 

12 budget and weren't considered, I believe, when 

13 we put together our instructions for SC&A to 

14 begin their work on the PERs. So we have 

15 brought that question to the Board for 

16 instructions on how to proceed and help with 

17 SC&A, so that they will know what we expect out 

18 of them. Is that issue clear for everyone?

19 MR. KATZ: Wanda, can I just add 

20 something?

21 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, please do Ted. 

22 MR. KATZ: So one of the things 
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36

1 that the Subcommittee discussed was, as opposed 

2 to having SC&A go and look at all these 

3 revisions and revisions of documents that they 

4 never reviewed in the first place, one 

5 suggestion at least was that we may just task 

6 SC&A to review the current Site Profile as it 

7 is. In other words, updated, and start there 

8 rather than digging through all this, this 

9 history of changes. 

10 MEMBER MUNN: No, it can, it will 

11 probably require a significant effort either 

12 way and we are at a loss. We feel that it is 

13 within the purview of the Board's oversight to 

14 make the decision for us.

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Background noise. 

16 So Ted, where are we budget-wise in terms of 

17 authorizing that? 

18 MR. KATZ: So we are okay, I mean 

19 we are okay either way, I guess. But, we were 

20 just thinking that since this wouldn't affect 

21 the tasking of SC&A to do a Site Profile review 

22 that would be something that the Board would 
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37

1 do, if it wants, for Ames. But there is no 

2 problem with handling that within the budget, 

3 if that's a question. 

4 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Then I guess the 

5 question, to me it seems reasonable that we 

6 should be doing this and probably should do it 

7 now.

8 MR. KATZ: Right.

9 MEMBER CLAWSON: Jim, this is Brad. 

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Go ahead, Brad. 

11 MEMBER CLAWSON: I was just 

12 thinking, you know, every time we've looked at 

13 one of these Site Profiles and there have been 

14 numerous changes to it, in the process it is 

15 sort of like a jigsaw to me. You've got to 

16 start at the very beginning and understand how 

17 they got to these points or you are not going 

18 to get the full picture. I understand that it 

19 is quite a large task for them, to be able to 

20 end up getting a good final product, they need 

21 to know how they came to where they were at 

22 now, instead of starting right then, my 
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1 personal opinion and SC&A can weigh in on 

2 this, but I think they have to be able to start 

3 at this so that all the questions can be 

4 answered up to there because if there have been 

5 numerous changes it would be very hard, I feel, 

6 to start here and go forward. That's my 

7 opinion.

8 MR. KATZ: Brad, what we discussed 

9 in the meeting and my point is that in effect 

10 we have a new, it's a new pretty completely 

11 renovated Site Profile. And so again my 

12 suggestion was just, what the Subcommittee 

13 talked about was just having SC&A start by 

14 doing a Site Profile review with what's there 

15 which includes everything that is relevant but 

16 not all the things that have been dropped out 

17 and so on from past history. 

18 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay well I've 

19 just seen on so many sites Ted, that one of the 

20 questions that usually comes up is how did you 

21 guys come up with this certain part of it. And 

22 to do that you have to go back to and I am sure 
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1 SC&A would be able to do that. I was just, you 

2 know, my opinion is it's always good to see 

3 what everybody's work was up to there to help 

4 understand how they got to this part in the 

5 Site Profile. But, you know, that comes up to 

6 us as the Board and also SC&A. 

7 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I think if SC&A 

8 reviewed the current profile and then it seemed 

9 to me if the past versions were relevant they 

10 would be relevant in terms of where SC&A found 

11 a problem with the current profile or an issue 

12 that it needed to help resolve. So I think you 

13 know, working with -- SC&A working with a Work 

14 Group could then figure out if additional, you 

15 know, work needed to be done in order to 

16 address the current profile. But why don't we 

17 get them started on the current profile. 

18 MEMBER CLAWSON: I agree with you. 

19 I just think this a little bit in reverse I 

20 guess. I am kind of seeing what you're saying 

21 there on that because if they do need to 

22 understand they can go back to previous changes 
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40

1 would help them understand where they've gone.

2 MR. STIVER: This is John Stiver, 

3 if I could step in for just a minute. I think 

4 the issue that kind of makes this a little 

5 different is that because the PER is really 

6 what triggered this decision that we really 

7 need to go back and look at the TBD and because 

8 there have been so many revisions where doses 

9 went up in one revision and some went down in 

10 the next and then up again for others and the 

11 third and so forth. In terms of determining 

12 for the PER the number of cases that are 

13 ultimately affected we would probably need to 

14 also look at those earlier revisions. 

15 However, strictly looking at the 

16 TBD review aspect of it, it would make sense to 

17 start with the latest and see, you know, and 

18 get that and then as needed I suppose we could 

19 go back and look at some of the earlier ones.

20 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, to me it 

21 seems that you couldn't judge the, the quality 

22 or the need for the revisions PER part of it, 
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41

1 how it affects dose reconstructions until you 

2 really decide well is the current Site Profile, 

3 you know --

4 MR. STIVER: Yes, that's a logical 

5 place to start. 

6 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: -- adequate. 

7 MEMBER MUNN: This is Wanda. I 

8 think a good argument can be made for either 

9 case, but the problem as I see it, is that with 

10 a PER one of our driving motivators here is to 

11 assure that anything that was done at the time 

12 was done appropriately in the confines of the 

13 instruction that existed at the time. And 

14 since we have a situation where we have evolved 

15 over a period of years as to how we approach 

16 many, many issues that are involved in dose 

17 reconstruction. 

18 Although our current views may be 

19 different than others, it is a real problem to 

20 look at our processes today and indicate 

21 whether or not processes that were accomplished 

22 three years ago were accomplished 
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42

1 appropriately. They may have been accomplished 

2 for that period given the instruction that 

3 existed for the dose reconstructor at that 

4 time. Does that make sense?

5 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: It makes sense, 

6 but I still think the more important goal is to 

7 make sure that what is being done now and going 

8 forward with the current Site Profile is of 

9 appropriate quality.

10 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, well of course.

11 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: So I think that 

12 would be the --

13 MEMBER MUNN: That's the ultimate 

14 accomplishment.

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Right, so I think 

16 starting there is probably a little bit more of 

17 a priority. But, I agree you can argue, you 

18 can make a case either way.

19 MEMBER MUNN: I really think you 

20 can and I think, I think that the contractor 

21 personnel who were looking at this felt that 

22 they couldn't truly evaluate this current 
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43

1 revision without better review of the preceding 

2 revisions. I don't think I am 

3 mischaracterizing that, am I John? 

4 MR. STIVER: No, I think you've 

5 kind of captured our concerns there. 

6 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, so we felt it 

7 was a Board decision rather than a Subcommittee 

8 decision to make. 

9 MEMBER BEACH: Jim, this is Josie. 

10 The other issue that we discussed is we weren't 

11 sure, there is not a Work Group for Ames at 

12 this time. I know the 250 Work Group looked at 

13 the blowout issue. So, who would actually 

14 review SC&A's work is another question we had. 

15 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: And what I was 

16 thinking and I, first of all I was trying to 

17 remember if there was a Work Group and I 

18 couldn't remember.

19 MEMBER MUNN: No, there isn't.

20 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: But I think what 

21 we should, I know that the SEC evaluation group 

22 looked at the 250 day issue but I think that 
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44

1 what we would do would be to appoint a new Work 

2 Group to handle that, and to monitor Ames and 

3 that that we will do that at our next Board 

4 meeting in March. Meanwhile, let's get SC&A 

5 started on the current Site Profile review and 

6 then we'll have the Work Group be able to take 

7 over and they, that Work Group could coordinate 

8 with the Procedure Subcommittee and figure out 

9 what needed to be done in terms of dealing with 

10 the PER issue and what further evaluation that 

11 SC&A needed to do. Does that make sense? 

12 MEMBER MUNN: My concern with that 

13 is that they have in effect already looked at 

14 this current revision, that's what triggered 

15 the PER, and they attempted to do so and what 

16 they are saying to us in their report, which is 

17 a rather good report, it is by the way posted 

18 on the website if anyone wants to go take a 

19 look at their PER report wherein they say 

20 essentially that they don't feel they can go 

21 any further with that until they have some kind 

22 of indication with respect to the previous 
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45

1 documents. So I am not sure how -- whether we 

2 move anything forward with the exception of 

3 appointing a Work Group. 

4 MEMBER BEACH: Wanda, this is Josie 

5 again. I thought they indicated that they 

6 needed to do a full review of the PER and not -

7 - in addition to going back, which I am in 

8 favor of them starting that.

9 MEMBER MUNN: Well let's take a 

10 quick look at the actual wording that we had in 

11 that, hold on just a moment, it will only take 

12 me a second to pull that Ames document up and I 

13 believe we that we can get the wording of what 

14 we were told. Subcontractor Reports and Ames, 

15 it is right here. The date of the report is 

16 January 2013. The draft was released on 

January 2nd 17 . And if I am not mistaken, I 

18 believe that comment is fairly early in the 

19 dialogue. 

20 It says that, it lists the changes 

21 and it says the need to throughly evaluate the 

22 above-cited documents prior to our review of 
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46

1 DCAS-PER-37 is supported by SC&A's very 

2 preliminary review of the Ames Laboratory TBDs 

3 including their 055 presented below, but is a 

4 sample of potential issues that the 

5 Subcommittee on Procedures Review Board may 

6 have to address. They went on to say later 

7 that they felt they could not proceed without a 

8 more thorough review. The search for the word 

9 assumed, assumption and presumed include 144 

10 instances and it's a -- I took away from the 

11 language that SC&A felt that they couldn't 

12 proceed with their current review absent 

13 information from the previous documents. If I 

14 am mistaken in that John, please tell me. 

15 MR. STIVER: No, no it's true. In 

16 order to really address all the issues that 

17 affected the outcome of the dose 

18 reconstructions, you know, there were several 

19 revisions, all of which were pertinent in 

20 different ways which is why we felt that we 

21 should really look at all the revisions in the 

22 context of the PER review. 
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47

1 MEMBER MUNN: They said based on 

2 the time periods of the facility operations of 

3 Ames Laboratory and changes introduced in the 

4 revisions they identify two discrete groups of

5 claimants in PER-37 whose previous dose 

6 reconstructions may have been affected by 

7 changes in the final revision, and they 

8 identify what those groups are. But it says 

9 SC&A concludes that a credible evaluation of 

10 PER-37 will have to await a decision by the

11 Subcommittee on Procedures Review on the need 

12 to include a full review of all documents 

13 relevant to the genesis of PER-37.

14 MEMBER MUNN: Am I still --

15 MR. STIVER: That pretty well sums 

16 up our opinion. 

17 MEMBER MUNN: So I wanted to make 

18 sure you were clear on the language. It was 

19 not just a tentative request being made here. 

20 I interpreted that as being fairly concrete.

21 MEMBER ZIEMER: This is Ziemer, can 

22 I add a couple of comments. 
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48

1 MEMBER MUNN: Please do Paul.

2 MEMBER ZIEMER: Yes, it seems to me 

3 that it makes sense to focus the review on the 

4 current version. What we don't want is 

5 findings from the older versions but it seems 

6 to me that in doing the review of the current 

7 version, that does not close the possibility of 

8 SC&A looking at the earlier versions and 

9 understanding how even those revisions 

10 occurred. If we ask them to review the current 

11 version and any findings would be based on 

12 that, why would we imply necessarily that that 

13 would restrict them to looking only at that, it 

14 seems to me that they have to look at whatever 

15 documents they need to make the proper 

16 evaluation. In my mind the door is open for 

17 them to look at the earlier documents as well. 

18 MEMBER MUNN: I thought it was too. 

19 However from our discussion I took away the 

20 fact that level and depth of study was what was 

21 really at issue. I think -- 

22 MEMBER ZIEMER: Right, but we don't 
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49

1 need findings from the earlier documents, but 

2 certainly they need to be available for 

3 appropriate reference and appropriate 

4 understanding of what's in the final document. 

5 MEMBER MUNN: I think the 

6 Subcommittee agrees with you on that Paul. 

7 Yes.

8 MR. STIVER: This is John, as I 

9 said earlier I think the problem we are 

10 struggling with here is that if we are just 

11 looking at a TBD revision or review in itself, 

12 it would perfectly make sense to look at the 

13 very last one, the most recent. The wrinkle 

14 there is that the PER really is affected by all 

15 of them and I don't see any problem as long as 

16 we can start say with the latest in this 

17 revision and then coordinate with the 

18 Procedures Subcommittee on the need for looking 

19 at the earlier versions in the context of 

20 completing the PER. As long as we have that 

21 leeway to do that, I don't see that there's a 

22 problem. 
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50

1 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes, my only 

2 caveat on that is that I think it should be 

3 done stepwise. 

4 MR. STIVER: Yes, it will be 

5 stepwise. 

6 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: What if you find 

7 that you do the TBD what if you find that the 

8 whole, you know, major way they are approaching 

9 dose reconstruction are not appropriate or need 

10 further revision and then, you know, then 

11 another PER, you know, there are a lot of 

12 contingencies, it is very hard to tell since we 

13 are just alerted to this right during this 

14 meeting, so I don't have the details. But, 

15 let's look at what we are doing going forward 

16 and then if it's appropriate to go back, we can 

17 go back. That's fine. 

18 MEMBER MUNN: Well, all right good. 

19 I assume John you feel that that's adequate 

20 instruction for proceeding. 

21 MR. STIVER: I think that's a good 

22 starting point. 
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1 MEMBER MUNN: Alright, very good. 

2 MR. STIVER: As we need to make a 

3 little incremental adjustments as we go along, 

4 we will notify someone on the Board. 

5 MEMBER MUNN: Alright, thank you 

6 and thank the other members of the Subcommittee 

7 for their comments, that's appreciated. If we 

8 are happy with the resolution of that 

9 particular item then I will go on with two very 

10 quick items to close out Procedures. The 

11 Subcommittee now has dealt with a total of 580 

12 findings and we have resolved over 85 percent 

13 of those. In March at our meeting we intend, 

14 in response to the request we have made to give 

15 you better information about we are doing and 

16 more detailed information, we'll have a report 

17 that more clearly identifies details of OTIB-52 

18 which you may recall we reported on briefly 

19 along with other information about our process 

20 during our last meeting. That was the 

21 parameters considered when we process claims 

22 for construction trade workers. So we will 
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1 give you more information on that and we intend 

2 to touch also on OTIB-70. 

3 We will have a report on dose 

4 reconstruction during residual radioactive 

5 periods for the AWEs and how we have dealt with 

6 those issues. It is my hope to also bring you 

7 a list of the completed procedure reviews from 

8 which you might choose potential future reports 

9 you want to hear about. And with that I think 

10 I can turn it back over to the Chair. Unless 

11 there are questions, I'll be glad to address 

12 whatever I can. 

13 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Any questions for 

14 Wanda? Ted do we need a motion for the --

15 authorize the Site Profile review? 

16 MR. KATZ: No, we don't really. If 

17 you are all, as long as everyone is basically 

18 in favor, that's fine and I am here so it's 

19 tasked.

20 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Good. Any 

21 other Work Group Chairs wish to report?

22 MEMBER CLAWSON: Dr. Melius, I know 
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53

1 Mark isn't here. I just wanted to touch base 

2 with everybody. The Savannah River Work Group 

3 had a teleconference here a little while ago 

4 with NIOSH and we went over a paper that Tim 

5 Taulbee had, it was actually Arjun put together 

6 and I just we were working forward on that and 

7 I just wanted people to be aware of that.

8 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay, thanks. 

9 Any others? Okay, any other business? If not 

10 then, I think we can adjourn.

11 MEMBER MUNN: Thank you all.

12 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Thank you 

13 everybody. We will see you in Augusta.

14 (Whereupon, the above-entitled 

15 matter concluded at 12:03 p.m.)