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1 

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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL

NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR OCCUPATIONAL

SAFETY AND HEALTH

+ + + + +

ADVISORY BOARD ON RADIATION AND

WORKER HEALTH

+ + + + +

WORK GROUP ON PINELLAS

+ + + + +

THURSDAY

MARCH 10, 2016

+ + + + +

The Work Group convened telephonically 

at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time, Phillip Schofield, 

Chairman, presiding.

PRESENT:

PHILLIP P. SCHOFIELD, Chairman

BRADLEY P. CLAWSON, Member

R. WILLIAM FIELD, Member
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ALSO PRESENT:

TED KATZ, Designated Federal Official

BOB BARTON, SC&A

PETE DARNELL, DCAS

BRIAN GLECKLER, ORAU Team

DONNA HAND

JENNY LIN, HHS

JIM NETON, DCAS

MUTTY SHARFI, ORAU Team

MATT SMITH, ORAU Team

JOHN STIVER, SC&A

KATHY LUDWIG TALBOT
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Contents 

Welcome and Roll Call ............................ 4

Response to SC&A Memo on Issue #5 ................ 5

Response to SC&A Memo on Issue #6 ............... 15

Public Comments/Questions ....................... 23
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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 (11:06 a.m.)

3 Welcome and Roll Call 

4 MR. KATZ: So I want to say welcome to 

5 everyone on the line. This is the Advisory Board 

6 on Radiation and Worker Health. This is the 

7 Pinellas Work Group, and we're meeting to follow 

8 up on a meeting we had about a month ago to try to 

9 wrap up the Board's review of the Site Profiles. 

10 And we're down to a couple issues.

11 The agenda for this meeting is posted 

12 on the NIOSH website and was also distributed, I 

13 think, to some interested parties. And what 

14 materials are available are also posted there, 

15 related to the discussions today.

16 So let's do roll call and let's begin 

17 with Board Members, and you just need to speak to 

18 conflict of interest since we were talking about 

19 a specific site. And we'll begin with the Chair.

20 (Roll call)

21 MR. KATZ: Okay, then. So, again, the 
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1 agenda is posted on the website and the first item 

2 on the agenda, SC&A Matrix issue number 5. I don't 

3 know, Jim or Pete, how you want to handle this. Who 

4 wants to take the reins?

5 Response to SC&A Memo on Issue #5

6 MR. DARNELL: Well, this is Pete. In 

7 speaking with John Stiver, issue number 5 was, from 

8 their point of view, closed with the technical call 

9 discussion and the discussion regarding RTGs 

10 actually is no longer needed.

11 So I think I'll turn it over to John 

12 Stiver and let him cover the tech call and go from 

13 there, if that's all right with everyone.

14 MR. KATZ: Yes, I think that's good. I 

15 think just you or John need to just explain that 

16 in more full English so that everyone can 

17 understand.

18 MR. STIVER: Okay. Well, this is 

19 Stiver. I can go ahead and take this one. 

20 Sub-issue 5 was limit of detection for the film 

21 badge dosimeters that were used, I believe, in like 
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1 the '74 to '79 time frame.

2 And we had a concern that was like a 

3 sub-issue really of Finding 5 that came out back 

4 in 2012. We were kind of concerned about the fact 

5 that NIOSH had gone, in the revision about the TBD, 

6 TBD 6, I believe, they had changed the LOD from 20 

7 millirem to ten millirem and we were kind of 

8 concerned that might not be claimant-favorable for 

9 the workers who were handling RTGs inside the 

10 encapsulated plutonium-238 sources because we felt 

11 that, you know, the film badges might not be 

12 sensitive enough to higher energy spectrum like 

13 with respect from a hardened beam, hardened flux 

14 coming off of the heavily shielded source.

15 And so there was quite a bit of 

16 discussion on this and we enlisted Craig Yoder, Dr. 

17 Yoder, who is basically already one of the 

18 preeminent experts on film badge dosimetry and the 

19 history of it.

20 He was with Landauer for a number of 

21 years, back from like '83 up until just a couple 
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1 of years ago and actually had help develop the 

2 DOELAP Standards for Accreditation for film badge 

3 dosimetry. So he knows a few things about film 

4 badge dosimetry. 

5 And we posed this question to him. You 

6 know, is this detection limit that's stated, the 

7 limit of detection of ten millirem, is that more 

8 of a policy by the company, kind of, you know, or 

9 does it have real sound scientific basis behind it?

10 And each frame in detail, that's the way 

11 that the badges, the batches of film work, were 

12 calibrated, handled and so forth, and how the 

13 densitometry works was really kind of unique in the 

14 distribution of doses that you'd expect. It really 

15 doesn't follow a Gaussian. Really it's based on 

16 the densitometry increments, it's more of a step 

17 function.

18 And so each little click on the 

19 densitometry corresponds with high energy gammas 

20 to about a six millirem exposure. And so the way 

21 they did this at the time, so let's say you have 
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1 6, 12, 18 and so forth in increments of optical 

2 density that you've then converted over to 

3 exposure.

4 And they're -- rather than try to 

5 calibrate each for each separate energy, they kind 

6 of have a catch-all approach even though the film 

7 is more sensitive to lower energy.

8 Obviously it would be because the 

9 photoelectric effect basically could detect three 

10 millirem of low energy x-rays and claim they could 

11 detect about ten millirem, you know, actually 12 

12 to 14 for higher energy photons.

13 But the way they reported these doses 

14 out were: anything less than ten millirem was 

15 considered not significant, that was reported as 

16 a zero, and then ten to 15 was reported as ten and 

17 so forth, in 20 millirem increments.

18 And so my question for Dr. Yoder was, 

19 well, is that ten millirem, you know -- regardless 

20 of, you know, the degree of hardening in the 

21 spectrum, could you detect, you know, let's say one 
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1 MeV a year, 800 keV photons, with a degree of 

2 confidence at that ten millirem exposure?

3 And he explained how they did this. 

4 Basically, they controlled type I and type II error 

5 rates to five percent. So 95 percent of the time, 

6 you know, if they're reporting ten, you're going 

7 to see a ten or a 20.

8 And in my mind that provided, you know, 

9 his explanation provided the scientific basis that 

10 we were looking for, for whether that ten was really 

11 a good solid number.

12 And based on that we recommend go ahead 

13 and closing out that open sub-issue of finding 5.

14 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Anybody else have 

15 anything to comment?

16 MEMBER CLAWSON: Phil, this is Brad. 

17 I just wanted to get around this because reading 

18 these guides has mostly stopped.

19 You said that this was in increments of 

20 ten that they did this. But so if he had 15 

21 millirem it would go to ten? Is that, am I reading 
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1 that correctly or --

2 MR. STIVER: I think 15 we'd round up 

3 to the next highest number and we get up to 20.

4 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay.

5 MR. STIVER: So I guess like ten to 14 

6 would be ten and then so forth. Even though 

7 they're actually calibrated in six millirem. It's 

8 kind of confusing, but it was done basically just 

9 so they could have one set of standards they could 

10 use for all these different batches of film.

11 They all read, and Craig also 

12 described, you know, how they control for base fog 

13 for each group separately, each batch of film 

14 separately. That was the other thing we were kind 

15 of concerned with.

16 You know, whether a batch of film that 

17 was at Pinellas, or any other site for that matter, 

18 might have a different accrual rate kind of a base 

19 fog, I guess that's not really the best word, but, 

20 you know, the rate of the fogging over time might 

21 be different from one site to another due to 
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1 background differences and so forth. But they 

2 control for that too, so. But I think it's a pretty 

3 solid program in place.

4 MEMBER CLAWSON: Right. But, and just 

5 what I'm going through is what you guys' notes were 

6 in that. So they're still going to read 14 or 15 

7 but they're actually going to round them up or down, 

8 correct? Yet they were still reading them?

9 MR. STIVER: Right. Yes. So it would 

10 either be zero or ten or 20. If it's less than ten, 

11 say it's up to nine it would be reported as zero. 

12 You're not going to actually detect it, you know, 

13 at the lower energies. The ten to 12, 14 would be 

14 to come in as a ten.

15 Probably there might be some 

16 statistical variation. You got some ten, some 20, 

17 but the closer you got to 20, the more likely you 

18 would get to see more 20s and fewer tens.

19 DR. NETON: Hey John, this is Jim. 

20 Just a minor correction. I think if it was listed 

21 as less than ten it would be indicated, M, minimal, 
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1 on the -- not zero.

2 MR. STIVER: Yes. Minimal, I think 

3 basically it was considered, yes. None are really 

4 a zero, but, yes, you're right.

5 DR. NETON: It was listed as M, was the 

6 technical designation.

7 MR. STIVER: Yes. Yes, you're right. 

8 Yes, that was right.

9 MEMBER CLAWSON: So and this again, to 

10 what my point was, especially that below the ten 

11 millimeter -- ten millirem, you are still rounding 

12 up. So what my question kind of was, and I didn't 

13 quite see it in your notes and stuff, so if it was 

14 five or whatever, would that show up as zero or 

15 would it be showing up as ten?

16 MR. STIVER: It would -- anything less 

17 than nine, nine or below is just recorded as Jim 

18 said, as M, for minimal.

19 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay.

20 MR. STIVER: So anything like that like 

21 that, ten would be basically ten to 15 and so. The 
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1 question I was really concerned with was is that 

2 a solid number, that ten, does it have a solid 

3 basis?

4 And, you know, based on how they 

5 controlled the -- how they determine the detection 

6 limits, you know, I felt that it was adequate. It 

7 certainly is as good as you're going to get with 

8 film badging dosimetry.

9 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay. I'm just -- I 

10 offer nothing. I was just trying to follow you 

11 guys' notes and I was a little bit confused in it 

12 and I wasn't a part of that and I apologize but, 

13 okay. That answers what I wanted to know. Thank 

14 you.

15 MR. KATZ: Okay.

16 MR. STIVER: Thanks.

17 MEMBER FIELD: This is Bill Field. I 

18 thought it was a brilliant, brilliant informative 

19 discussion and really helpful. I had concerns 

20 about the impact of fogging but it sounds like that 

21 had very minimal effect on the interpretation.
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1 MR. STIVER: Yes, Dr. Yoder was very, 

2 very helpful, very clearly spoken and clearly one 

3 of the most knowledgeable people on the subject.

4 So without any further discussion I 

5 guess I could move on to the next item.

6 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Okay. The next 

7 item is on the matrix issue number 6 on the D&D.

8 MR. KATZ: Well, Phil, just formally, 

9 I think the Working Group needs just to close that 

10 matter.

11 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Oh, true. But I 

12 think we can close that issue. I think we've all 

13 come to agreement on it.

14 MR. KATZ: That's fine. You just need 

15 to state the thing and you're doing that, right? 

16 Thanks.

17 MEMBER CLAWSON: Well, I agree with 

18 you, Phil. This is Brad.

19 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Thanks, Brad.

20 MR. KATZ: Okay.

21 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: So, Pete, again, 
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1 which one of you want to take the next one? The 

2 response?

3 Response to SC&A Memo on Issue #6

4 MR. DARNELL: This is Pete. I'll go 

5 ahead and take it. Issue 6 was well, again, a 

6 holdover from the last matrix review that was done 

7 prior to the turn of the year.

8 SC&A commented, basically we heard from 

9 a site expert that there may be some issue or some 

10 records in Albuquerque. And they basically wanted 

11 NIOSH to go over and look for the records.

12 What we did was go through our Site 

13 Research Database and come up with all the records 

14 that have been found so far and ask for a finding

15 aid on the Sandia National Laboratory which has the 

16 Albuquerque holdings.

17 We received the finding aid on March 1st 

18 and I supplied that to everybody and emailed out 

19 the location of the actual finding aid.

20 And then we did a review on the finding 

21 aid looking for number of key words to try to find 
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1 information regarding decontamination and 

2 decommissioning it to an off-site.

3 As routine, the paper, we were quite 

4 thorough in looking through. What we found in 

5 those holdings were basically documents that were, 

6 could be indirectly valuable.

7 In other words, information regarding 

8 the processes or equipment at the site. One of the 

9 items we pointed out was the helium-3 release and 

10 retention rate characteristics of, in 

11 spectrometric behavior of H TRIGA uranium, uranium 

12 oxide, uranium and aluminum samples.

13 We get some information regarding how 

14 some of the materials reacted and what went on with 

15 those materials but very little information would 

16 we get towards site radiological operations or the 

17 radiological conditions on the site.

18 We did not find anything that would be 

19 related to the D&D or the radiation and safety 

20 programmatic knowledge.

21 And basically, on our review feel 
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1 there's no value in going out and try and pull these 

2 records to support anything that we haven't already 

3 done.

4 So yes, I mean, that's basically it in 

5 a nutshell.

6 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: The rest of you 

7 have any comments?

8 MR. STIVER: Yes, this is John. 

9 Basically, in our line we were thinking there might 

10 be some additional monitoring data and records out 

11 there at Sandia, basically the Albuquerque office, 

12 that possibly hadn't been captured yet.

13 It turns out, well, and, you know, as 

14 you can tell, I mean, you look at, you know, Pete's 

15 response and then the response from the February 

16 meeting.

17 It looks like they had done a due 

18 diligence so they run this thing to ground. You 

19 know, they got what there is out there, I think. 

20 There is no, you know, additional data to be found.

21 So, you know, it becomes kind of a 
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1 weight of evidence argument. I mean, you know, we 

2 have a good quantity of the monitoring data. We 

3 have an interviewee who was, you know, one of the 

4 principle health physicists and during that period 

5 of D&D he recalled a very, you know, detailed 

6 knowledge of the operations and how things were 

7 done back then.

8 So anyway, we have a very credible 

9 interviewee and a subject matter expert, if you 

10 will.

11 And so, you know, we have that, you 

12 know, and NIOSH has a good solid set of data, 

13 monitoring data. We have the word of the subject 

14 matter expert who was actually there during, in the 

15 operations.

16 And they also are going to apply the 

17 coworker dose which is the 95th percentile. 

18 That's a -- you can turn up with a D&D worker who 

19 didn't have monitoring data and that, remember, is 

20 a whole body dose, basically.

21 It's a combination of photon, neutron 
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1 and tritium and doses the 95th percentile during 

2 the operational period assuming continuous 

3 exposure.

4 For all we know at Pinellas the exposure 

5 were typically released to external radiation a 

6 very short term. It's either on or it's off, you 

7 know, that kind of thing.

8 So, yes, we have been through that 

9 before and we felt that that was, you know, a good 

10 claimant-favorable approach.

11 And so, you know, here you've got a guy 

12 who comes along who doesn't have a monitoring data 

13 log. They have the coworker dose that's going to 

14 be applied to the 95th percentile and we felt that 

15 that's adequate.

16 So, you know, in my mind there's really 

17 nothing more to do on this so I think we could 

18 probably go ahead and close it out.

19 MEMBER CLAWSON: Hey John, this is 

20 Brad. Dealing with Sandia stuff, we don't have, 

21 do we still have any notes or anything else that 
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20

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1 are still pending down with them?

2 I know that with some of the other sites 

3 that they have some information. We were kind of 

4 still waiting for some notes for them to release 

5 it.

6 But have we got all of our information 

7 from Sandia that we have requested? Or do we have 

8 anything still waiting?

9 MR. DARNELL: Brad, this is Pete. We 

10 received everything from Sandia that they have. 

11 That 60 page listing of documents was it.

12 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay. I guess -- and 

13 this pertained to another site. I was just, we 

14 just had some notes that were kind of tied up down 

15 there with their library down there and I just 

16 wanted to make sure that we'd received everything 

17 we were supposed to.

18 MR. DARNELL: Yes. We actually waited 

19 until we received their -- what they call their EDC 

20 review. I don't remember what the acronym stands 

21 for, but their complete review of the holdings and 
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1 then their technical review of the list. This 

2 completed, I'm sure, everything that they had was 

3 included on this before they sent it to us.

4 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay. I'm just, yes, 

5 I just wanted to make sure. Appreciate it.

6 MR. DARNELL: Not a problem.

7 MR. STIVER: So Phil, I guess maybe 

8 make a motion to go ahead and close out number 6?

9 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Yes, I mean, 

10 unless there's something outstanding that somebody 

11 knows about, I feel we should go ahead and just 

12 close it out and then allow the public to speak.

13 MR. DARNELL: I do want to point out 

14 that, you know, we will still be looking for 

15 documents and as we come across them we'll make them 

16 available to the Board and apply them as needed.

17 So while we're recommending closure 

18 it's still something that's ongoing as with all of 

19 our cases in all the different sites.

20 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: You know, that 

21 reminded me of one thing, Pete. Have you checked 
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1 with LANL?

2 MR. DARNELL: Los Alamos. I believe 

3 that's in the memo. That some of the stuff was 

4 found at Los Alamos.

5 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Yes, because I 

6 personally know some people who've, were involved 

7 in all that, so.

8 MR. DARNELL: Right.

9 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: I doubt if any of 

10 them are still around, but.

11 MR. DARNELL: Oh, you never know. Off 

12 the top of my head I'm almost positive what we did, 

13 but I'll do a quick check and make sure that we, 

14 and see if we've gotten anything from LANL.

15 MR. STIVER: Yes, Pete, in the memo you 

16 sent out for February?

17 MR. DARNELL: Yes?

18 MR. STIVER: They had 771 SRDB 

19 references captured from other sources and 

20 included LANL and some other -- NIOSH, SAIC, et 

21 cetera.
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1 MR. DARNELL: I am looking at my 

2 report, so I am not finding it. Yes, you're right.

3 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Okay. That was 

4 my only question.

5 MR. KATZ: Okay. So Phil, you just 

6 need concurrence from your Work Group Members.

7 MEMBER CLAWSON: Phil, this is Brad. 

8 I agree with you. We can go ahead and close this 

9 item.

10 MEMBER FIELD: This is Bill. Agree, 

11 okay.

12 Public Comments/Questions

13 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Well, and we'll 

14 open it up to the public if they have any questions 

15 or comments.

16 MS. HAND: This is Donna Hand. Your 

17 issue number 6 back in 06-11-2008, and they said 

18 that the Site Profiles even addressed the D&D era, 

19 [identifying information redacted] has stated that 

20 yes, we have a number of workers but we don't know 

21 if they were involved with the D&D time period.
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1 And, you know, you had -- but there was 

2 no information put up of what type of monitoring 

3 practices, procedures. And then Peter Darnell 

4 says, well, suppose 10 CFR 835 so they were under 

5 the rule. And Mr. Gibson has then just said just 

6 because they're under a rule that doesn't mean they 

7 followed it.

8 And there was, you had no, received no 

9 documentation of the swipes, and also the personnel 

10 remained, they stayed there and worked on a D&D time 

11 period from 1994 all the way up until September of 

12 1997.

13 They were the ones that acted as HPs. 

14 They did the swipes. You know, they cleared the 

15 house, they cut down the stacks. They sent it to 

16 the Nevada Test Site or to Savannah River depending 

17 on how much radiation it was, and you have no 

18 documentation of it.

19 So where are those records? And if you 

20 don't have any documentation, you know, your data 

21 integrity is questionable.
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1 And this is where you're really first 

2 Work Group meeting. And at that time you also ran 

3 this as classified. We still have not received any 

4 radiation dose from the HEATHER Project.

5 And we know for a fact that it did emit 

6 radiation and you just now are sending out those 

7 Q clearance interviews to the people that did the 

8 Q clearance.

9 And this was done back in, what, 2011, 

10 2012? It's taken this many years to do this? This 

11 is not a timely matter. And in the 2008 Work Group 

12 report it also says that you did not have a proper 

13 electronic data set.

14 The data changed from some claimants 

15 that have filed. And Brad Clawson then brought up, 

16 well, we need to look at the data adequacy and the 

17 integrity.

18 And Neton said the same thing. We will 

19 look into that and that still has not been done.

20 So I question you closing these issues 

21 when you're ignoring the fact at the very beginning 
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26

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1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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1 these issues are still outstanding.

2 So what is the Working Group, and what 

3 is the NIOSH, going to do to correct this because 

4 you do not have anywhere within the, you know, the 

5 -- what, about eight years came up with 

6 documentation to support your data.

7 And even Phil, you know, and according 

8 to Peter Darnell, who's the last meeting you had 

9 when he told the gentleman from Landauer, oh, we 

10 don't take opinion, we have to have reference and 

11 documents, who then told Pinellas Plant it's based 

12 off of his opinion that the workers don't know what 

13 they're talking about.

14 And that again is mentioned in 2008. 

15 So this has been going on for eight years and we're 

16 not being treated the same way as any other site.

17 So I would like for the Working Group 

18 and NIOSH, the upper people, you know, decide what 

19 are you going to do. Are you going to do the right 

20 thing and be fair or are you going to continue 

21 dragging us along, you know, and where, you know, 
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1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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1 somebody's going to have to take you to Federal 

2 Court. Thank you.

3 MS. TALBOT: This is Kathy Talbot. I 

4 would just like to add also that at the outreach 

5 meeting last week that they had that we attended, 

6 I think the first group was about 125 people. We 

7 ask an enormous amount of questions. We 

8 absolutely tried to validate our concerns and were 

9 shut down left and right.

10 The reason I bring this up is I just want 

11 to follow this up with these Q clearance interviews 

12 which have to go back to some of this not being

13 completed, the Site Profile as far as the Pinellas 

14 Plant employees are concerned, and there's a lot 

15 of them involved now.

16 You know, these workers knew what was 

17 going on. These workers were there. It's an open 

18 plant. You know, I think one of the things that 

19 needs to be brought to fruition on a lot of these 

20 points is it's the only, as far as I know and please 

21 correct me if I'm wrong, one of the only open 
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1 quality control manufacturing lines in the nation. 

2 And this is never really been addressed.

3 I'm sure all of you were aware and Ted, 

4 I'd like to direct a question to you and I know that 

5 Mr. Schofield is there.

6 I can't seem to get an email to send, 

7 you know, certain people certain things and I don't 

8 get any confirmation that they've been sent. Is 

9 that still the best way to get information to Phil 

10 and Brad, is through you, Ted, through that D --

11 MR. KATZ: Yes, that is and you should 

12 be getting, Kathy, you should be getting 

13 confirmation because I always respond to, I respond 

14 to the same mailbox that you send to. They send 

15 me emails, I respond back.

16 And I always tell them I've done this 

17 and that they should be forwarding that on to the 

18 original inquirer, like you, when you inquire about 

19 something.

20 MS. TALBOT: Okay, well, and again, not 

21 trying to be argumentative. I've never once 
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1 received a response except when I sent you some 

2 documents that were not in the proper format and 

3 I won't do that again. I'll send them PDF.

4 MR. KATZ: Yes, because I had an email 

5 directly from you so I just responded to you, right.

6 MS. TALBOT: You did, yes, you did.

7 MR. KATZ: And you can, I'm fine with 

8 you sending me an email directly, Kathy. That's 

9 not a problem.

10 MS. TALBOT: And do I send that one 

11 direct? Maybe I did eventually get an email --

12 MR. KATZ: Either you sent it to me or 

13 your email was on what I received but I remember 

14 responding to you or copying you or whatever.

15 MS. TALBOT: Yes, it's all right, it's 

16 all right.

17 MR. KATZ: Yes.

18 MS. TALBOT: I'm just trying to clarify 

19 this. And I, again, I understand that we're a bit 

20 off-subject on this. This is kind of an open forum 

21 for us. We have to jump in when we can, guys.
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1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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1 And we know this is a big meeting coming 

2 up in Tampa and we know that some of the Site Profile 

3 information on Pinellas will -- you know, will be 

4 discussed.

5 And as you can imagine we'll be there 

6 to listen carefully. And I'm sure that you're all 

7 aware, and if you're not I'm here to tell you or 

8 inform you, we did file a thick SEC.

9 It's, you know, I got a clarification 

10 or a notification that it's been assigned a 

11 tracking number.

12 You know, so we've tried to make this 

13 one strong. We, you know, tried to bring things 

14 to the attention of the Working Group and NIOSH and 

15 everyone concerned that, you know, we are concerned 

16 that the Pinellas plant is special in that it had 

17 some unique qualities and, you know, there are some 

18 things that's not been addressed in the prior four 

19 SECs.

20 So again, that's just my statement. So 

21 these are the things that we get nervous about when 
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1 they close things because SC&A -- and John, I know 

2 that you must be aware of this, I had a meeting with 

3 our group here in Pinellas and I saw the letters. 

4 They're dated the 25th of January on some of these 

5 interviews. That's a long time not to finish what 

6 was started.

7 And I, you know, I'm not looking for an 

8 explanation. I'm just looking for some of these 

9 things to be left open or to be added to at a later 

10 date.

11 When these were the top ten or 12 guys 

12 and some of them unfortunately are already passed, 

13 you know -- so what would have been a great 

14 interview for those very, very brilliant people 

15 that you chose to give you solid information, have 

16 already passed away.

17 And they're dropping like flies. I 

18 hate to say it that way, but, I mean, we're 

19 approaching 550 people.

20 And, you know, I just think that again, 

21 you know, you guys are really famous for opinion 
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1 so I'll give you one of mine. Pinellas Plant is 

2 not treated the same as a lot of the other plants 

3 although you refer to the surrogate by Pinellas, 

4 surrogate by Pinellas.

5 So, you know, and that's another issue 

6 to be brought up for in our SEC consultation. When 

7 I was on the phone with this conference I had a call 

8 from Cincinnati so that may have been it.

9 But, you know, that's just what I want 

10 to say. We just want to be treated fairly. And 

11 we want it scientific like everyone else. That's 

12 all we want.

13 MR. DARNELL: Excuse me.

14 MS. TALBOT: You talked about a

15 coworker dose, you talk about a coworker dose, a 

16 hundred millirems every year is not a fair coworker 

17 dose. It should be different for every year.

18 And you're doing straight across the 

19 board a hundred millirems for the coworker dose. 

20 I asked Grady Calhoun that question and he couldn't 

21 answer me. And then he lied and told me that every 
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1 single one of these things were closed.

2 And they had to come back 15 minutes 

3 later in the meeting and say I have to respond to 

4 Ms. Talbot's question. Some of the items are still 

5 open.

6 But he told 125 people that every single 

7 one of these items were satisfied and closed. I 

8 mean, you're talking about people who don't even 

9 know how to file a claim. Some of these people 

10 don't even know how to file a claim. Thank you.

11 MR. KATZ: Thank you, Kathy. A couple 

12 things. One, Donna, related to Donna's comment 

13 too. I think, John, are you preparing the sort of 

14 overall review of the Site Profile Review for the 

15 Board?

16 MR. STIVER: Yes, I'll be doing that.

17 MR. KATZ: So when you do that you'll 

18 be covering all the findings and how they were 

19 resolved, right?

20 MR. STIVER: Yes. I've got, planning 

21 on using the matrix, you know, we went through the 
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1 last meeting and just kind of, you know, give the 

2 highlights of that and then, you know, I can take 

3 questions that are related to it.

4 MR. KATZ: Right. So I'm just 

5 assuming that that's going to cover some of Donna's 

6 questions about how matters were closed on various 

7 findings?

8 MR. STIVER: Yes. Like I said, if you 

9 noticed the matrix that we sent around since the 

10 last meeting it's annotated with, you know, 

11 different transcripts.

12 MR. KATZ: Right.

13 MR. STIVER: And then when things were 

14 closed out and, you know, the discussions are 

15 there, you know, that led up to it.

16 MEMBER CLAWSON: John, this is also 

17 Brad. And you're going to cover the data adequacy 

18 question because you guys have checked into that, 

19 right, and explained what the process --

20 MR. STIVER: I'm kind of just talking 

21 off the cuff. I think you're talking about the 
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1 issue 1 and, you know, all of them, but.

2 MEMBER CLAWSON: I just want to make 

3 sure because I've been involved in a lot of the data 

4 captures and stuff with Pinellas.

5 But I also went down to Sandia on some 

6 of the interviews and we actually went in and looked 

7 at the process that was actually brought up from 

8 Pinellas and so forth.

9 And I just want to make sure that we'd 

10 let them know what, a lot of time's as a group we've 

11 all been involved in these, but I want to make sure 

12 the information -- and they understand what we have 

13 done and what, how deep we've dug into this to come 

14 to these conclusions.

15 MR. KATZ: Right. So this is Ted. 

16 So, I just, I would have this suggestion, I guess. 

17 John will have a presentation where he'll go 

18 through all of the matrices, matrix items.

19 But also I think, John, if we have it, 

20 we should have a finally updated version of the 

21 matrix with all the items, how they were closed and 
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1 we can put that out too and that might give more 

2 detail on some matters that you're not going to, 

3 you know, go into in detail in your presentation. 

4 Does that make sense?

5 MR. STIVER: Yes, just sort of a, like 

6 a final --

7 MR. KATZ: Yes, we always do anyway a 

8 final matrix with all the matters closed and how 

9 they were closed, how they were disposed.

10 MR. STIVER: Now are you talking like 

11 in the next couple of days from the meeting or this 

12 is going to be like a --

13 MR. KATZ: Well, no, I mean, well, the 

14 matrix normally is kept more or less up to date and 

15 it would just be for the Board meeting in -- is that 

16 a problem? I mean that, it would have to be done 

17 sometime, completed in sometime next week but we 

18 have a matrix, right, that's been --

19 MR. STIVER: We do but it's not a super 

20 detailed matrix. It doesn't cover every 

21 discussion that ever took place. We had --
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1 MR. KATZ: No, right. But I mean, 

2 they never do.

3 MR. STIVER: Yes. We had something 

4 like that back in like the 2011 time frame and it 

5 just got so cumbersome that, you know, it was too 

6 unwieldy to even deal with.

7 MR. KATZ: Okay. Well, I guess it's, 

8 I mean, if all you have is something that's very 

9 summary, then I think your presentation will do the 

10 job. But if your matrix as it stands now has more 

11 detail then I would just update it with these last 

12 few items.

13 MR. STIVER: Yes, I'll update it with 

14 the one we have now, with that.

15 MR. KATZ: Yes.

16 MR. STIVER: You know, I'm just afraid 

17 that, you know, if we put all the details from 

18 everything we got before why, you know, that's what 

19 the entire meeting is going to be.

20 MR. KATZ: Oh no, I don't think you can 

21 possibly do that, right.
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is for information only and is subject to change.

38

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1 MR. STIVER: Yes, yes.

2 MR. KATZ: You can't possibly do that 

3 for sure.

4 MR. STIVER: I'll give you the time 

5 I've got. I mean, we can certainly, you know, if 

6 petitioners or other folks are interested in, you 

7 know, some more of the details, well, we can provide 

8 it but probably not in real time but we can 

9 certainly get it to them.

10 MR. KATZ: Right.

11 MR. DARNELL: Hey, John, this is Pete. 

12 I have a matrix that I'll send you. It was the last 

13 one that NIOSH put out. All it's missing is the 

14 final updates for tritides, issue 5 and issue 6. 

15 Maybe that will help with your effort.

16 MR. STIVER: Yes, well, I have the one 

17 from 2009. I remember that was the last one we 

18 discussed for the 2011 meeting and --

19 MR. DARNELL: It's the one we put out 

20 January 12th of 2016.

21 MR. STIVER: I didn't catch that last 
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1 part. You broke up.

2 MR. DARNELL: We put it out in January 

3 12th of 2016.

4 MR. STIVER: Yes, I've got that one. 

5 Yes, I've got that one.

6 MR. DARNELL: Okay.

7 MR. STIVER: That's what I used to 

8 generate our responses.

9 MR. DARNELL: Yes. And I do have a 

10 question for Ms. Talbot.

11 MS. TALBOT: Yes.

12 MR. DARNELL: I understand that you're 

13 looking for some type of closure on the interviews 

14 and what I'd like to know is what would meet your 

15 expectations for closure on those?

16 MS. TALBOT: Well, you know, my 

17 expectation is that it would, that the interviews 

18 are done and completed.

19 I'll give you an example. Am I talking 

20 to John?

21 MR. STIVER: Yes, I'm here.
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1 MS. TALBOT: I just want to know who I'm 

2 talking to, that's all.

3 MR. DARNELL: You're speaking to Peter 

4 Darnell.

5 MS. TALBOT: Oh, okay.

6 MR. DARNELL: Yes, this is Pete.

7 MS. TALBOT: So, Pete, what I saw at 

8 this meeting, okay, were letters to the 

9 interviewees. And if you would like a name I'll 

10 give you the name of the gentlemen that I saw his 

11 paperwork.

12 MR. DARNELL: No, we won't use names in 

13 this meeting.

14 MS. TALBOT: I know you don't. So and 

15 it was a summary of the interview, you know, which 

16 he should have gotten years ago. And, you know, 

17 if there was anything they wanted to add or, you 

18 know, or update or whatever.

19 And he took that and he reviewed it and 

20 there was many, many things missing that he was 

21 going to try to fix or update before he signed it. 
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1 And I have not spoken to him in about a week so I 

2 don't know where he is at in that, Pete.

3 MR. DARNELL: Right.

4 MS. TALBOT: But, you know, I would 

5 like to see these interviews completed in part of 

6 the Site Profile or whatever you do with that 

7 information, to make it part of the Site Profile.

8 And there seems to be a lot of question 

9 and very documented about the intelligence or the 

10 knowledge that these Pinellas Plant employees had.

11 And you know, I don't know how these 

12 people were picked or how these folks were picked. 

13 You know, I couldn't agree with your picks based 

14 on what I, you know, I'm familiar with. I grew up 

15 at this plant so, you know, I know most of these 

16 people that haven't already passed.

17 So my answer is I'd like to see them 

18 completed in part of our Site Profile because it 

19 seems that's what SC&A was looking for, was any kind 

20 of information especially in the early years. In 

21 '57 to '74 there seems to be a lot of discussion 
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1 about, you know, the validity with any, of, you 

2 know, the records and, you know, quoting 

3 [identifying information redacted], our HP out 

4 there and everything else. So I hope that answered 

5 your question.

6 One question I want to ask before I 

7 forget along with that is, we think the metal 

8 tritide, the tritium issue was closed?

9 MR. DARNELL: Yes, ma'am.

10 MS. TALBOT: I mean that was not on 

11 today's schedule so you're considering that 

12 closed?

13 MR. DARNELL: That was finally closed 

14 during our last Work Group meeting.

15 MS. TALBOT: Okay. So back on 

16 February 11th?

17 MR. DARNELL: Yes, ma'am.

18 MS. TALBOT: Okay.

19 MR. DARNELL: I'd just like to point 

20 one thing out to you about the interviews. Those 

21 interviews were actually corrected by the 
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1 Department of Energy as soon as we got done writing 

2 on those. And all of that information was taken 

3 for classification review.

4 MS. TALBOT: Right.

5 MR. DARNELL: Some of the information 

6 I believe that you're talking about that's missing, 

7 the information that DOE deemed classified, we 

8 can't use it in the technical basis at all.

9 MS. TALBOT: Okay.

10 MR. DARNELL: And to tell you the 

11 truth, right now I couldn't tell you exactly what 

12 was in and what was out of those notes because of 

13 the classification review, you know, it happened 

14 in 2011.

15 But I just wanted to make sure that you 

16 understood that a lot of the information that we 

17 took was redacted and cannot be used, cannot be 

18 discussed in our Technical Basis Document.

19 However, the exposure information and 

20 information related to the radiological program 

21 have been incorporated. It's just not pointed out 
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1 that they came from such and such an interview.

2 MS. TALBOT: And if that's the case, 

3 and I appreciate the information, Peter, if that's 

4 the case then why after five years are they just 

5 getting the paperwork on, you know, and in the Work 

6 Group meeting back in 2011, it's an issue.

7 It's, you know, these were pending or 

8 this is still open or, you know. And again, 

9 understand, you know, over the last two or three 

10 years I'm just learning to navigate this, okay.

11 I've been navigating it for 20 years 

12 because that's how long my dad's been gone, okay, 

13 but really navigating it as an advocate for these 

14 Pinellas Plant workers.

15 So thank you for answering that. I 

16 understand about redacting. I've filed enough 

17 FOIAs to know about redacted information and it 

18 goes back to how much was classified. HEATHER and 

19 other, you know, classified projects.

20 I mean, at what point does it become an 

21 issue for the Pinellas Plant workers if there was 
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1 so much classified documents and you can't get the 

2 data? How can we feel comfortable that we're 

3 getting the, you know, the dose that we deserve?

4 You know, my father was extremely 

5 involved in the HEATHER and I just got his third 

6 dose reconstruction and they're giving him nothing 

7 for HEATHER.

8 And that's not an issue. I'm making a 

9 statement. I'm not talking about separate claims. 

10 I'm just making a statement.

11 MR. DARNELL: I understand.

12 MS. TALBOT: So with all the things 

13 that are redacted, I mean, I have a 180 page report 

14 and 78 pages are redacted, okay. It's kind of 

15 frightening, you know. So, and they give enough 

16 just to concern of ours.

17 You know, these concerns come from many 

18 people that you know and that you've talked to a 

19 number of times that have been to every meeting, 

20 you know. So, but I appreciate the explanation.

21 So basically you guys considered these 
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1 two interviews or these interviews closed and 

2 whatever data you could use you incorporate it into 

3 the Site Profile?

4 MR. DARNELL: The data has been 

5 incorporated. SC&A was the one that ran the 

6 interviews.

7 MS. TALBOT: Yes.

8 MR. DARNELL: I can't answer. Maybe, 

9 John, you can speak to this or put out why they're 

10 just now receiving interview summaries and things 

11 and that information. I can't answer that one for 

12 you. I'm sorry.

13 MR. STIVER: Yes, this is John. Yes, 

14 we had kind of a lengthy process. Back when we did 

15 these interviews the classification interview took 

16 quite a while. I believe it was like a couple years 

17 or so before we got everything together that we 

18 needed.

19 You know, so as far as getting the 

20 information back out, I mean, we looked through 

21 them, you know, there were some that were heavily 
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1 redacted. We identified areas that, you know, we 

2 wanted additional classification or clarification 

3 on.

4 And to be honest with you, it kind of 

5 was kept on the back burner because there were so 

6 many other hot button SECs going on at the time.

7 We were putting all our effort into that 

8 and we were kind of waiting on NIOSH to come back 

9 with the, before we could get moving on the tritides 

10 model. And that was going on for about three or 

11 four years.

12 And to be honest with you, it just kind 

13 of fell through the crack. You know, I take 

14 responsibility for that. You know, we brought it 

15 back to light, you know, once we got the light once 

16 that we got the word that the plant review of 

17 Pinellas was going to be revived again, once NIOSH 

18 indicated that the tritide model was nearing 

19 completion.

20 MS. TALBOT: Right.

21 MR. STIVER: And with that we went back 
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1 and so, yes, look we better, you know, close the 

2 loop on this to make sure that all these people have 

3 a chance to look at their notes and get that 

4 finished and get those summaries completed and put 

5 up into the SRDB.

6 MS. TALBOT: And I certainly 

7 appreciate your honesty, John, I really do. And 

8 I know that these guys are, you know, at least there 

9 are more of them that I know that they got their 

10 paperwork in late January, you know, are working 

11 feverishly to get those back to you and, you know, 

12 and anything that might be missing or that they're 

13 concerned about. I know they're right on top of 

14 it so I certainly appreciate your honesty. Thank 

15 you.

16 MR. STIVER: Yes, we've received about 

17 five or six responses so far.

18 MS. TALBOT: Sure, sure.

19 MR. STIVER: We need to get as many as 

20 possible before we go ahead and just decide, okay. 

21 You know, and so you can let the people know who 
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1 were working on getting those in that, you know, 

2 if they can go ahead and get it in as soon as they 

3 can we can go ahead finish this all up.

4 MS. TALBOT: Yes, I'm trying to be a 

5 fish wife and get them to get those in there for 

6 you, so I'll --

7 MEMBER CLAWSON: This is Brad. I'd 

8 like to make a comment too though. I want to make 

9 sure that you understand on this.

10 So when we talk about these being 

11 classified and a lot of the information kept, we 

12 kept out, I want you to understand that that is not 

13 kept from the Board.

14 The Board has a hundred percent access 

15 to everything. Several of us have Q clearances and 

16 this is part of the reason why we went to Sandia 

17 because of some of these interviews and the 

18 discussions of it.

19 It brought questions to us and part of 

20 the process was the tritium part and a lot of other 

21 things that we got into.
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1 I want to make sure that you understand 

2 we may not be able to put it in the Site Profile 

3 but the information that we glean from this is put 

4 into it because we have to keep security as a very 

5 high priority.

6 But I want you to also know that nothing 

7 has been held back from the Board. We have a 

8 hundred percent access to everything there are and 

9 that's why a lot of our questions that are done 

10 unfortunately behind closed doors.

11 But national security is important to 

12 us. But we have gone in great depth to a lot of 

13 this and a lot of it we can't, you know, we can't 

14 discuss outside those areas.

15 But I want you to know that the Board has done 

16 nothing, nothing is held back from us and we have 

17 a hundred percent access to everything that we need 

18 to.

19 MS. TALBOT: That's excellent. Thank 

20 you. Thank you for that.

21 MEMBER CLAWSON: Yes.
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1 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Are there any 

2 other comments?

3 MS. HAND: This is Donna Hand. I 

4 appreciate that, you know, the Board has seen all 

5 of this and I'm sure that the people at NIOSH and 

6 SC&A that has a Q clearance has seen, you know, and 

7 knows where the radiation was.

8 And then some of the issues that were 

9 still outstanding back in the 2011 was depleted 

10 uranium, you know, and it was, you know, they 

11 refilled the depleted uranium yet there was no 

12 uranium dose.

13 And again in 2008, the O: drive showed 

14 that there was uranium. Phil Schofield talking 

15 about the RTGs saying that yes, we had workers come 

16 in there, the maintenance and the crafts, they 

17 weren't monitored. So, and that yes, there was 

18 monitored workers and the plutonium.

19 All these issues and then yet, we find 

20 that there was exposures, re-exposures, 

21 re-exposures but there's no data.
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1 And then you go and you're seeing this 

2 Q clearance which is a classified metal tritide, 

3 the HEATHER, and I believe another project that was 

4 done in 126, as well as the hoods according to a 

5 DOD employee, a head guy that was assigned to 

6 Pinellas, he informed me that what was done in the 

7 hood cannot be talked about, it's classified.

8 So we, there was, you know, those 

9 incidents, there was radiation. But you can't 

10 talk about it because it was classified or the dose 

11 would be put at zero and no one knew.

12 And they made the neutron tube and the 

13 neutron generator. So, you know, so that was the 

14 main issue. And Sandia is making the neutron tube 

15 and the neutron generator and it was sent to them 

16 in the 90s, but yet they don't have the dose for 

17 it in that but yet Pinellas can get the dose? It 

18 doesn't make sense to us. It's not logical.

19 MR. KATZ: Donna, this Ted Katz. 

20 John, you know, first of all, with respect to 

21 classified as has been explained during this 
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1 meeting, where there's dose associated with 

2 classified information, the dose, even though the 

3 classified information is protected the dose is 

4 considered and included where it can be included 

5 where it belongs.

6 So, but that's how that gets addressed 

7 and there's nothing that can be done about 

8 classified remaining classified because that's 

9 protecting national security.

10 But as far as the closure of the 

11 findings are concerned, John, at the, John Stiver, 

12 for Phil at the Board meeting will be presenting 

13 all of the closures and how those were done.

14 So he will be presenting what the 

15 finding was and how they resolved the issue for all 

16 of the findings going back to the beginning of this 

17 review which has of course gone on for a long time.

18 MS. HAND: Yes, and the only thing is, 

19 is if, is that your findings scientifically valid? 

20 Is your findings based on documentation?

21 MR. KATZ: Donna, I understand.
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1 (Simultaneous speaking.)

2 MS. HAND: -- because we agree, no. 

3 You agreed because, you know, where's the 

4 references, you know, what documentation are you 

5 using? And if it's classified then just say it's 

6 classified whenever we do agree, you know.

7 But the thing is, is that we're closing 

8 these issues out and there's a disagreement between 

9 the whole time span that this Working Group has 

10 worked at Pinellas plant.

11 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: Donna, let me 

12 make comment. This is Phil. Part of the exposure 

13 information particularly on the RTGs is very well 

14 characterized.

15 There's been numerous studies, 

16 measurements done, on the different RTGs that have 

17 been manufactured over the years. That 

18 information is readily available to the health 

19 physics people to look at.

20 Even though publicly you can't get into 

21 discussion about certain aspects of RTGs but as far 
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1 as the measurements and characterization or the 

2 exposures, that is something that has been looked 

3 at for many years now.

4 MS. HAND: And I agree, Phil, because 

5 I've looked at those records with that information, 

6 you know. And Pinellas has two different sizes and 

7 whenever it was leaking when it was left in the 200 

8 D&P, they would reopen it, fix the leak and then 

9 reencapsulate it, you know.

10 And this is from a worker that did it, 

11 so that, it has cause for concern. And in the main 

12 issue is that you're not treating, the information 

13 that I can find on the internet, fine. I've done 

14 it.

15 But I also find reports underneath the 

16 OSPI like Sandia did in 2000 with the metal tritides 

17 and they had got those metal tritides from Pinellas 

18 Plant and they said that, and you can't deal with 

19 just one swipe. But yet you're doing resuspension 

20 with one swipe.

21 And Ted Katz at a meeting told, informed 
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1 me that, you know, Pinellas has five metal 

2 tritides. You don't know which one a worker was 

3 exposed to. And Neton said that, yes, it makes a 

4 difference of whatever metal is, the solubility of 

5 it of whatever that metal is connected to that 

6 tritium.

7 So you've got a lot of variables here 

8 that, you know, it doesn't work and you can't get 

9 the documentation for.

10 And that's all I'm asking you guys to 

11 do, is to go back and look at all your 

12 correspondence. Your O: drive from the very 

13 beginning in 2008 when you had your first Work Group 

14 committee meeting and that's when Presley informed 

15 everybody we can't talk about Pinellas. And 

16 that's very offensive to us.

17 And then you, you know, and Brad was 

18 talking about it and also Mauro was talking about 

19 it, we need to address the data, the validity of 

20 the data.

21 And, you know, all these years you still 
This transcript of the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health, Pinellas Work Group, has been 

reviewed for concerns under the Privacy Act (5 U.S.C. § 552a) and personally identifiable information has 

been redacted as necessary. The transcript, however, has not been reviewed and certified by the Chair of 

the Pinellas Plant Work Group for accuracy at this time. The reader should be cautioned that this transcript 

is for information only and is subject to change.

57

NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

1 haven't done it. But yet you closed it up. So 

2 then at the meeting we'll be prepared and that's 

3 all we're asking for is to be fair.

4 Fair, you know, if you're willing to 

5 treat a site and you're going to give them, you 

6 know, yes, we have the data or no, we don't have 

7 the data.

8 How we do the coworker model is for each 

9 year not one amount for the entire period for 20 

10 years. You know, all these issues are combined to 

11 be if their Pinellas Plant workers don't believe 

12 anything that NIOSH says.

13 MR. KATZ: Okay. Thank you, Donna. 

14 And Pete?

15 MR. DARNELL: Yes?

16 MR. KATZ: I think that if we have a 

17 plan going forward we have John preparing the 

18 presentation for you. I think that ends our agenda 

19 for today.

20 MR. STIVER: Yes, Ted, this is John. I 

21 have one other question. Was Pete going to have 
This transcript of the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health, Pinellas Work Group, has been 

reviewed for concerns under the Privacy Act (5 U.S.C. § 552a) and personally identifiable information has 

been redacted as necessary. The transcript, however, has not been reviewed and certified by the Chair of 

the Pinellas Plant Work Group for accuracy at this time. The reader should be cautioned that this transcript 

is for information only and is subject to change.

58

NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

1 a presentation also?

2 MR. KATZ: No.

3 MR. STIVER: Okay.

4 MR. KATZ: No, I think we talked about 

5 that the last meeting too but maybe not. But it 

6 doesn't make, if there's really no reason for Pete 

7 to do half and you do half of it.

8 MR. STIVER: Yes.

9 MR. KATZ: I think you, I mean, you can 

10 cover the waterfront.

11 MR. STIVER: Exactly.

12 MR. KATZ: And Pete will then be made 

13 available and Jim will be available for questions 

14 for sure.

15 MR. STIVER: Okay. All right, that's 

16 fine. Just want to make sure.

17 MR. KATZ: But thank you, thank you.

18 MR. STIVER: Okay.

19 MR. KATZ: So, Phil?

20 CHAIRMAN SCHOFIELD: If there's no 

21 more questions then I will call this meeting 
This transcript of the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health, Pinellas Work Group, has been 

reviewed for concerns under the Privacy Act (5 U.S.C. § 552a) and personally identifiable information has 

been redacted as necessary. The transcript, however, has not been reviewed and certified by the Chair of 

the Pinellas Plant Work Group for accuracy at this time. The reader should be cautioned that this transcript 

is for information only and is subject to change.

59

NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

1 adjourned.

2 MR. KATZ: Thank you, Phil. And thank 

3 you everyone for participating.

4 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 

5 went off the record at 12:05 p.m.)

6

7

8