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and a lot of people dying, and it's not about the
money, you know. It‘s about my health. I got my
paperwork right here with me ‘cause they did me
the same way, writing all that bull junk talking

about ain't nothing wrong with me, and there

something is wrong with me. I got all my -- all -
- I done (Inaudible). JT done went to three or
four different doctors. Now... So what is DO

(sic) going to do? Y’all can have all that
Advisory Board to meet and committee meeting.
That ain’t worth nothing if you ain‘t going to
compensate them employees over there. You know
you're just playing games. That's what it seems
like to me You can have 20 different meetings.
You can have a meeting every month. That’s not
comprehending (sic) nobody and that ain’t helping
nobody. What is the deal? What you going to get
out of it? You ge to tour or five different --
and then another thing, DOE want to send them ro
they own doctors ‘cause they -- they pay them by
the government ‘cause the government going to
stick by one another.

DR. ZIEMER: Okay, thank you. Any further
comments tonight?

(No responces)

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out by mistake, actually when a maintenance worker
was changing fluorescent light bulbs in the
office. We had been getting real horrendous odors
in that office and no other office on that
hallway, and they would be so bad that you could
only be in the room about five minutes before you
developed a severe headache. And I asked the
worker to lift the ceiling tile to see if he could
see where those odors may be coming from, and at
that point we discovered there wasn’t a wall
separating our office from that laboratory.

I guess the thing that concerns me the most
is both my claim and Ms. Gantz’s has been denied,
and it seems that that was based primarily on our
TLD readings. We believe that we were exposed to
something, that the probability of four people
working in the same office all developing cancer
is just a little bit fur me to believe that it
wasn't due to something we were exposed to, and
that’s all I’ve got to say.

DR. ZIEMER: Thank you. Let me again ask for
questions.

(No responses)
Okay, thank you very much. Do we have any

others yet this evening?

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have seen reports where a man that worked in a
radiation area lot of times during the month would
have the same exposure record as the man that
never went into radiation, that worked in the tool
room on the outside of the buildinys and what-not,
So as construction workers, we were doubtful about
whether records were accurate or not.

DR. MELIUS: Thank you.

MR. ROWE: Okay.

DR. ZIEMER: Okay, thank you very much. Are
there others who wish to make comments?

MS. GANTZ: Hello, I’m Julie Gantz. I worked
out at Savannah River Site approximately four and
a half years. Iwas clerical. The office -- the
last office that I worked in backed up to a fab

lab where they were constantly melting stuff.

There was no retaining wall. Myself and two other
women and wy boss all came down with cancer. My
boss has since died, two years ago. You know, we

were always told we were safe, but we weren’t.
There were -- we always had to monitor out when we
left the building, and a lot of times those
monitors would go off and tell you, you know, that
a part of your body was contaminated. And we were

always told if -- if the monitor went cff, to go

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Again, we thank all those who made comments

and participated. We will recess until tomorrow
morning, as indicated, and declare this session
adjourned.

(Whereupon, an adjournment was taken to

Friday, February 6,

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Federal payroll step up and say we're going to
take a look at it. And since the record remains
silent, I quess it speaks for itself.

DR. ZIEMER: Thank you. Michael?

MR. GIBSON: I’m not certain, Paul, but I
believe that the Department of Energy was
instructed not to oppose Workers Comp claims --
Subtitle D claims, and I was wondering if there's
any Department of Energy officials in the
audience, or will be tomorrow, that could address
this, which seems to be in direct violation of
what then-Secretary Richardson ordered when this
law was being enacted.

DR. ZIEMER: Is there anyone here that -- DOE
people that can speak to that, or can any of the
other Feds?

MR. ELLIOTT: I don’t believe there‘s any DOE

folks here tonight, and I -- I'm -- I don’t know
if L. P. Singh will be here -- is L. P. here
tonight?

UNIDENTIFIED: (Inaudible)

DR. ZIEMER: I‘m sorry, we -- we’re not
picking that up on the transcript here. We‘ll
need to have you use the mike again.

MS. MILLER: Again, my name is Kay Miller.

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any belenium (sic) on the site, and after going
through some of these physicals, these 37,000
people, they found about sight that did have it.
But to date these people still haven't received
any compensation and the families don’t know who
to go to, who to talk to. And you go over and you
file a claim, everybody help you -- they even come
to your house Lo help you file a claim. Well,
once the claim is filed, they say everything is up
to NIOSH. And all these other areas except
Savannah River Plant, the bomb factory, the one
that did the thing that was supposed to be done to
defend this country, and now the families and the
relatives of gets nothing except committees,
committees, committees. I think this is the fifth
year, and that‘s my comments.

DR. ZIEMER: Thank you for your comment.
Again, let’s see if there's any follow-up
questions here,

MR. HILLS: I'm sorry?

DR. ZIEMER: No, that’s okay. I guess there
are none. You're okay.

MR. HILLS: I apologize.

DR. ZIEMER: Perhaps there are no comments.

Okay, thank you, sir.

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samples. There were other -- other people that
worked back in the area where I did, they had to
do that, but I never had to get an-- only testing
I ever had out there was a drug test, right before
I Jett.

MR. GIBSON: That seems to be more important
to them. Thank you.

DR. ZIEMER: One more question, I think.

Dr. Andrade?

DR. ANDRADE: I’m curious, without revealing
a name or any sort of information about your
supervisor or personal information, can you tell
us what type of cancer the person passed away
from?

MS. GANTZ: Cancer of the esophagus.

DR. ANDRADE: Esophagus?

MS. GANTZ: Uh-huh. Thank you.

DR. ZIEMER: Okay, thank you very much. Are
there others?

MR. HILLS: I’d like to say good evening
again, and my name is Warren Hills, Sr. I just
want to make some comments for the benefit of the
committee here with our screening program here in
Augusta. Charles I think explained pretty well

what we did and what we went through with the

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back around and if it gave you the all clear sign,
you were free to go. Or health protection would
stick their head out and say oh, the monitors
aren't working right today; go on and go, you’re
fine. You never knew what was going on out there.
Tt was always a need-to-know basis, and if you
didn’t need to know it, you did not know it, so...

DR. ZIEMER: Thank you very much. Again,
follow-up question -- here’s one, if you --

MR. GIBSON: Did the company do any
additional monitoring on you like they did the
production workers?

MS. GANTZ: No. And also in the area that I
worked in, they had -- the way the hallway was
shaped, it was kind of like a U-shape with labs in
the middle of the hallway, and I could stand and
talk to a lab worker who was fully dressed out,
aud all there was was a door in botwoen us with a
glass window. She was fully dressed out and I was
not, and it was as -- and we could talk as if we
were standing right next to each other.

MR. GIBSON: And so you -- you folks were
never afforded the same opportunity to bioassay
testing --

MS. GANTZ: I never did any kind of bioassay

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We received a letter stating that workers -- our
state Workers Comp had been notified that our
claim was denied, and our understanding is that if
your claim is denied you do not receive any
benefits from state Workers Comp. That was the
gist of the letter that I received.

DR. ZIEMER: Okay, Lhank you. The other
question had to do with the opposition in the
testimony. Right? And I -- again, we -- I guess
we don't have anyone here from DOE to respond to
that,

MR. GIBSON: Paul, I was mainly referring to
-- well, not only to this case, but the case that
the brother -- that the gentleman brought up from
Fernald.

MR. ANFIELD: My name is Isaiah Anfield. I’m
a former employee with £.I1. duPont, local 1137
union. Referring to the lady just stepped up tiv
the ball plate, they did me the same way, and I
don’t see why DOE keep playing with all these
people that really actually something that
happened. I done been to three or four different
doctors. You’re still getting the same -- same
correspondence. You know, it’s clear to me

they‘re just playing simple ball game. You know,

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that plant at least six, seven, eight, nine, ten
years, some of them 20 years, and there's still no
settlements. Some of the folks even had colon
Cancer and we know that cigarettes has a lot to do
with lung cancer, but the thing is that these
people worked at Savannah River Plant most of
their lives.

We understand that Oak Ridge, Tennessee and
Portsmouth, Ohio; Paducah, Kentucky, even Alaska -
- all the uranium workers in the Paducah and in
the Oak Ridge area have been paid -- their
families have been paid or whatever. Over $13
million has been paid out to date for this program
in all of these areas I just mentioned. Nothing
has been spent -- not one penny, I think -- as far
as compensation for any worker in the Savannah
River area. We feel that we should be under that
Special Exposure Cohorts. And the other reason we
feel that they’re just leoking over Savannah River
Plant ‘cause when duPont was there, even after
duPont left in ‘89 and Westinghouse-Bechtel took
over, duPont supposed to have been the most safest
plant in the world, and right now we're under the
star program. So if this plant was so safe, how

can anyhnody get exposed? They say there wasn’t

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areas, the facilities and the people that they
worked with. And I imagine that’s the same thing
that's going on --

MR. JERNIGAN: It’s a very big problem, and
especially when you get into, in your case,
survivors having to get involved in placing
claims. Like Mr. Dennis said -- Mr. Rocque said,
years ago they were not allowed to even talk to
their families about what they did on that plant.
Even pecple come in tnday to go through the
screening process, they want to know if we have
permission for them to talk to us. And they never
told anybody where they worked. They just knew
they -- families just knew they worked at Savannah
River Site, so unless -- I don’t know, you'd have
to have a crystal ball with those people to figure
out where -- where those people worked. And from
my experience with DOE and Savannah River Site,
you get very little help from out there.

DR. MELIUS: Just along the same lines, when
you use various -- I don't know exactly what you
use. I know I’ve helped with the -- when they set
up the Fernald program in terms of sort of
pictures and buildings and -- from the past to

help people remember where they might have worked

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Federal program he was compensated or not. It
doesn't really matter at this point on -- on this
particular issue that I’d like to share with the
Board. But he has applied through the Workers
Compensation or the Subtitle D, as I’m informed
that -- upon the time of his hearing, and I'd like
for my brothers and sisters to hear this very
clearly -- you do get an opportunity to go before
a panel and te hear your case heard. Watch and
see just how many adversaries come to that same
table. It happened to my friend at the Fernald
site, where the subcontractor that’s there now
came there and opposed his application for this
fee -- or this -- for this award, and he's -- he’s
been there for over 20 years. That
subcontractor’s been on our site for 12 years. He
is affected with beryllium disease and this has
all been documented by the tests and various
things in Colorado. He shared a great deal of
this information with me personally, but I was
under the impression talking with him that that
sort of adversarial result was not supposed to
happen, and this subcontractor did this. They
sent their own industrial hygienist to the

hearings to oppose his application. So please

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Now others?

(No responses)

There will be another public comment period
tomorrow, late morning. It's scheduled for the
end of our morning session at 11:30, so if there's
anyone here this evening that has second thoughts
and said you know, I really should have said
something, you can come back tomorrow and we'd be
glad to hear you. Again, I don’t want to cut
things short. Tf anyene else has a comment they
wish to make -- another gentleman. Thank you.

MR. BEATTY: Again, my name is Ray Beatty.
I’m from Fernald site, and the reason I hesitated
coming to the mike, I wanted to not infringe upon
my brothers and sisters of the unions here. This
is, you know, your site, your time to speak. But
a couple of things were mentioned -- specifically
one Board member mentioned Fernald site -- and we
do have some baseline summaries, books that shows
what went on in specific buildings, what those
people did in those buildings, and it’s probably
very helpful. But I’d like to tell you another
side of the story where an individual on our site
has been there for over 20 years, he applied

through the program. And I'm not sure if in the

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screening, until the point of filing the claim.
Going through the screening, after explaining
everything to those that were interviewing --
where you worked at, how long you were there,
whatever you was in, was it under the area, was it
in the reactor area, whether you were around
radiation, was it inside, outside, was there a lot
of dust or whatever the case may be. After having
done all that, they send you to get a physical.
After the physical -- the physical comes back,
most time when they come back they say you had a
hearing loss or you have an enlarged heart. As
far as skin cancer, nothing was mentioned there if
you had any type cancer on your skin. We hada
lot of folks that had lung cancer. In my local we
had about three that worked at Savannah River
Plant. They found a spot on their lung. They
removed the spot. A couple of years later they
died from lung cancer. Those cases haven’t been
settled yet, and that’s what a lot of the families
in this area are wondering why that Savannah River
Plant is being, we feel, looked over as far as
settling these claims or NIOSH finding come way to
figure out a dose and say if you do have cancer

and yaur decter say you had it and you worked at

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workers, they would have been more careful and
therefore would have probably -- the health
conditions would have been better in the long run.

DR. ZIEMER: Okay, thank you. Follow-up
questions?

DR. MELIUS: Just one quick question. When
you were working alongside production workers,
were -- were there situations whoro they were
being monitored, they had film badges or whatever,
and were you monitored in those -- those
situations?

MR. ROWE: Yeah, we were given -- whenever we
had to dress out and go into a -- a danger or
radiation -- where there was radiation, we were
given commonly a radiation monitor, a pencil
badge, as we normally called it. And -- but we
had to turn it in when we left the plant site and
then we'd pick it up, and at times there -- we
found out that these monitors were not always
accurate, you did not always get the same monitor,
and when you turned it in -- in short, there was
- there was room for a lot of mistakes. And I
personally have seen reports where at the end of -
- you get a quarterly report as to how many rems

of radiation exposures you had, and I personally

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(No responses)

It appears that we have no other individuals
to make public comment, in which case we will
recess for the evening. Again remind you that the
Board will reconvene in the morning. We reconvene
at 8:00 o’clock. Our actual session will formally
begin at 8:30. The Board will be discussing a
number of matters and then have another public
comment session at the end of the morning. Our
session in the afternoon is a closed session that
will involve discussion and review of a task order
proposal and independent government cost estimate
and therefore will be a closed session.

With that, again, I thank all of Lhuse who
came out tonight. We appreciate the input that
you provided, your comments. Again, you recognize
that on an individual basis, the Board does not
deal with those cases, but in a collective basis
those experiences that you have and have relayed
to us will help us as we go forward in doing our
tack, and we appreciate your all taking the time
to come and be with us and share with us this
evening. And with that, I'll declare that we‘re -
- oop, yes, Richard Miller. I know --

MR. MILLER: I -- I -- I promised I wouldn’t

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to make about the testimony we’ve heard today to
figure out whether your site profile missed the
specific circumstances in that case by a mile? Is
anybody going to look into that, or is this just
going to stay on the record and collect dust and
people can read it on the web site if they’re
duterested? What -- what specific follow-up will
take place, if anything?

DR. ZIEMER: Richard, you pose a question
that probably is not answered on the spur of the
moment but certainly is a thought-provoking
question in terms of saying could in fact this
kind of exposure not be captured, is what you're
asking, in the assumptions made.

MR. MILLER: I’m making no assumption about
the individual's case or her story --

DR. ZIEMER: No, I understood --

MR. MILLER: -- but I aw saying an unshielded
circumstance, if as-described is true, is a very
interesting item uncaptured and clearly will be
well disposed of through the efficiency methods --
very efficiently disposed of, And I don’t know
whether NIOSH or anybody in this room is going to
make a commitment to deal with that situation, but

1 would really like to hear semebody on the

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the Savannah River plant for approximately 15
years. As construction workers, we were moved
about to various areas wherever they needed help,
wherever there was a need for workers at a certain
time, depending on what areas were building up or
revamping and what-not. We were told to go into
various buildings and what-not. There was -- lot
of times we were -- there was no markings. We
would dress out, go into various areas --
radiation cxposure areas, but there was no
markings as to what we were exposed to or anything

like that, And a lot of times we worked in areas

that the maintenance people -- the production
workers, we helped them out. There was areas that
they didn’t -- didn’t have worker for -- workers

enough to do it or for various reasons, we were
loaned out to preduction doing work that they were
supposed to do. We as workers just went in and
did our jobs. Then when we -- when I came down
and went through this screening program, I was
asked about various chemicals, all kind of
situations and products that I had never heard of
before, had -- had there been -- my point is, if
Savannah River Plant had pointed out the exposure

or the things that were harmful to construction

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or where a project took place. Have you used
that, and also have you -- to what extent have you
tried to piece together what happened in a
particular job out there that -- you know, from
fellow workers or from what information people
have that at least --

MR. JERNIGAN: We go through a process, like
we do have overviews of every area oul there that
has all the buildings on it. We have maps on the
wall which we walk them through and -- and you ask
them questions like do you remember if the
building was above ground or below ground, was it
a tall building or a short building. You know,
you go through a pretty lengthy process of trying
to help them remember anything they can -- do you
remember your foreman’s name, do you remember
anything about the people you worked for. We --
we train our interviewers to really do an in-depth
interrogation with these people, and we start off
with maps and pictures. And sometimes you get
very little.

DR. ZIEMER: Thank you very much. Again we
have another comment here.

MR. ROWE: I’m Gordon Rowe, construction

electrician out of Augusta, Georgia T worked at

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take note of that for what it’s worth. It did
happen. Verification is there. Thank you.

DR. ZIEMER: Thank you for that comment.
Let’s see if there’s any questions any Board
members have.

(No responses)

Was there someone else? Yes.

MS. MILLER: I’m a little short. I'ma
little bit nervous so please bear with me. I just
wanted to reinforce what Ms. Gantz --

DR. ZIEBMER: Identify for the record, please,
your name and --

MS. MILLER: Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Kay
Miller, and I just wanted to reinforce what Ms.
Gantz had previously said. Three of us clerical
ladies worked in the same office. Within about a
year’s time of being in that office, we all
developed cancer. As she said, our boss had
worked in there prior to the three of us. He died
about two years ago.

There was no retaining wall het.ween our
office and a fabrication laboratory in the
basement underneath us that was classified as an
RCA. We were not told the wall was not there and

had no knowledge that it wasn’t there. I found

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speak this evening.

DR. ZIEMER: No, I --

MR. MILLER: My name is Richard Miller with
the Government Accountability Project. I have a
procedural question for both the Board, for NIOSH,
for ORAU, for the audit cuntractor, and ail the
people who are getting paid to work on this
program.

Yhe woman who just spoke raised a really,
really, really interesting and important question,
I don’t know what the causes of her or her
colleagues’ cancer were or whether she was exposed
to chemicals or radiation. We don’t even know the
details. But what we do know is this much: That
the Savannah River site profile probably skirted
over that issue at about 25,000 feet.

And the second thing that sort of strikes me,
just from having listened to Dr. Neton’s
presentation today about the efficiency guidelines
that are developed is they assume that where you
have unmonitored dose it couldn't possibly exceed
more than ten percent of the maximum permissible
body burden.

Now the procedural question I guess I have is

this. What inquiry is anybody in this room going

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