1 

NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL

+ + + + +

NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR OCCUPATIONAL

SAFETY AND HEALTH

+ + + + +

ADVISORY BOARD ON RADIATION AND

WORKER HEALTH

+ + + + +

115th MEETING

+ + + + +

WEDNESDAY

JANUARY 25, 2017

The meeting convened via teleconference at 

11:00 a.m. Eastern Time, James M. Melius, Chair, 

presiding.

PRESENT:

JAMES M. MELIUS, Chair

HENRY ANDERSON, Member

JOSIE BEACH, Member

BRADLEY P. CLAWSON, Member

R. WILLIAM FIELD, Member

DAVID KOTELCHUCK, Member

RICHARD LEMEN, Member

WANDA I. MUNN, Member

JOHN W. POSTON, SR., Member

DAVID B. RICHARDSON, Member

GENEVIEVE S. ROESSLER, Member

PHILLIP SCHOFIELD, Member

LORETTA R. VALERIO, Member

PAUL L. ZIEMER, Member

TED KATZ, Designated Federal Official
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REGISTERED AND/OR PUBLIC COMMENT PARTICIPANTS

ADAMS, NANCY, NIOSH Contractor

AL-NABULSI, ISAF, DOE

ANIGSTEIN, BOB, SC&A

BARTON, BOB, SC&A

BROCK, DENISE, DCAS

KOTSCH, JEFF, DOL

LIN, JENNY, HHS

MCKEEL, DAN

NETON, JIM, DCAS

OSTROW, STEVE, SC&A

RUTHERFORD, LAVON, DCAS

STIVER, JOHN, SC&A
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Contents

ROLL CALL......................................... 5

NOVEMBER BOARD MEETING FINAL VOTE TALLIES......... 5

SCHEDULING OCTOBER BOARD TELECONFERENCE........... 6

HOOKER ELECTROCHEMICAL SITE PROFILE REVIEW........ 9

TASKING SC&A REVIEWS OF RECENT NIOSH PROCEDURES UPDATES

................................................. 12

PANTEX SEC CLASS EXPANDED BY HHS TO INCLUDE 1954-1957

................................................. 15

SPECIAL EXPOSURE COHORT PETITION STATUS UPDATE... 26

UPDATES FROM WORK GROUPS AND SUBCOMMITTEES....... 27

PLANS FOR MARCH 2017 BOARD MEETING............... 34
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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 10:59 a.m.

3 MR. KATZ: Welcome everyone to the 

4 Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health. 

5 It's out biannual teleconference meeting to 

6 prepare for the next Board meeting in person.

7 The agenda for today's meeting is on the 

8 NIOSH website, Scheduled Meetings, today's date, 

9 so you can follow along with the agenda.

10 There's also one document there that 

11 relates to just making some taskings to SC&A 

12 possibly in this meeting. That's the only 

13 attachment there.

14 So for roll call, conflict of interest. 

15 Because there's not much to deal with, and there's 

16 no reason for individuals to have to disclose their 

17 own.

18 We only have one agenda item. It's 

19 that tasking that I mentioned that could involve 

20 any conflicts. There are a couple of those 

21 taskings that relate to Y-12, and Dr. Lockey and 

22 Dr. Poston, if they're on this call, have conflicts 
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1 with Y-12, so they just shouldn't speak for that 

2 motion.

3 But that said, the rest of the agenda 

4 items don't involve really any potential for 

5 conflict matters, so we don't need to go into 

6 conflicts with the Board Members.

7 Let me run roll call now.

8 ROLL CALL 

9 MR. KATZ: Okay, well, we have 13 out 

10 of 15. We have our quorum. And, Jim, it's your 

11 meeting.

12 CHAIR MELIUS: And, I turn it back over 

13 to you for the November Board Meeting roll call.

14 NOVEMBER BOARD MEETING FINAL VOTE TALLIES 

15 MR. KATZ: All right, thank you.

16 So at the November Board Meeting out in 

17 New Mexico, we had one major action, which was the 

18 addition of -- the extension of the Class at Santa 

19 Susana Area 4 for the years 1965 through 1988.

20 And that passed at the Board meeting, 

21 but we had a couple of absentee Board Members, and

22 they all completed voting on December 7th, so that 
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1 was a unanimous action.

2 And that Class went forward to the 

3 Secretary, and I believe the Secretary already took 

4 action on that.

5 MS. ADAMS: Yes.

6 MR. KATZ: Yes, thank you, Nancy.

7 You know, it just -- I just recalled, 

8 I didn't do a roll call for anyone but the Board 

9 Members. That's my oops. But let me go back to 

10 that, the NIOSH ORAU team.

11 (Roll call.)

12 MR. KATZ: Not the first time I've done 

13 that, dropped that ball. But that takes care of 

14 that.

15 And, so, I've covered the November vote 

16 tally.

17 SCHEDULING OCTOBER BOARD TELECONFERENCE 

18 And the next item is me, too, which is, 

19 at the last Board meeting in November, we didn't 

20 manage to schedule a teleconference that we need 

21 late in the fall of this year, before our December 

22 Board Meeting at the end of this year coming.
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1 So, I've put out some possible dates. 

2 What I have is the week of the 16th is open as a 

3 possibility; for the week of the 23rd, it's only 

4 the 26th and the 27th that are actually available; 

5 or the week of the 30th is also open.

6 So I'm hoping folks have managed to look 

7 at their calendars. Anyone speak up. If one of 

8 those weeks is completely out of the question, let 

9 me know now.

10 I know a couple Board Members, probably 

11 here, I think Brad and Josie will not be here. But 

12 there's nothing that can be done about that.

13 But for other Board Members, are either 

14 -- any of those weeks out of the question?

15 CHAIR MELIUS: Except for Doctors 

16 Anderson, Lemen, and Melius the week of the 22nd.

17 MR. KATZ: Okay, that's out of the 

18 question.

19 CHAIR MELIUS: Yes, especially the 

20 26th, 27th.

21 MR. KATZ: Right, great, okay.

22 So let's talk about the week of October 
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1 16th. Does anybody have trouble with that? The 

2 16th is a Monday, so typically we do the 18th, but 

3 it doesn't have to be that day.

4 CHAIR MELIUS: I cannot do the 18th. 

5 But I can do other days that week.

6 MR. KATZ: Okay.

7 Anyone else have any limitations on 

8 that week?

9 CHAIR MELIUS: The week of the 18th?

10 MR. KATZ: So, that's the week of 

11 October 16th, not including the 18th.

12 MEMBER MUNN: I'm here.

13 CHAIR MELIUS: Yes, I'm okay.

14 MEMBER ANDERSON: I'm okay.

15 MR. KATZ: Okay. So, why we do the 

16 19th? Is that good with everyone? October 19th?

17 MEMBER MUNN: Yes. That's good.

18 MEMBER ANDERSON: That's going to be a 

19 call or a --

20 MR. KATZ: That's a teleconference, 

21 right. 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time.

22 MEMBER ANDERSON: Okay.
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1 MR. KATZ: That's the usual. Very 

2 good, okay, got that behind us. Then, the next, 

3 oh, back to you, Jim.

4 HOOKER ELECTROCHEMICAL SITE PROFILE REVIEW

5 CHAIR MELIUS: So, our next item is a 

6 followup on Hooker Electrochemical's Site Profile 

7 Review by Dr. Anderson.

8 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes, we had a review 

9 from our Committee about one open point, number 4, 

10 that was discussed at the last face-to-face 

11 meeting.

12 And, we learned a bit more that this was 

13 a somewhat unique site because there were some 

14 specific Secretary directions from the review of 

15 the initial petition that then carried over into 

16 methodologic issues for the residual period that 

17 we were addressing in the Site Profile.

18 So while the feeling was that the 

19 methodology used to estimate the ongoing exposures 

20 from the settled dust using the coffee cup analogy 

21 of dust's process out of the air and the remainder 

22 from other sources.
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1 We felt that that was probably a -- it 

2 was clearly an overestimate. But that it was a 

3 practical approach that could be used. Or there 

4 were other approaches as well, given the issue with 

5 the Secretary's Directive.

6 We closed it out, and it's going with 

7 NIOSH was recommending, which is what the 

8 Secretary's recommendation was or Secretary's 

9 Office Directive was.

10 And just a note that, if -- that this 

11 was a validating approach that would be -- it 

12 overestimates the exposure, but the feeling was, 

13 if there was some very -- even with that 

14 overestimate, we feel this was not very 

15 substantial, in any instance.

16 And the only concern with it is that 

17 adding that little bit in could put the person over 

18 to refind it or be compensated, when there might 

19 need to be a more careful detailed review of an 

20 individual case. But we felt that was very 

21 unlikely.

22 So with that long explanation, we 
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1 closed it out. And so we would now recommend or 

2 state that our whole review has been concluded, and 

3 all of the points raised have been resolved.

4 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay, thank you, Henry.

5 Any Board Members have any questions or 

6 comments?

7 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Dave Kotelchuck 

8 from the Working Group. I agree.

9 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes.

10 CHAIR MELIUS: Anybody else?

11 Not that I -- think they would take that 

12 as a motion from the Work Group?

13 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes.

14 CHAIR MELIUS: And so I guess we can do 

15 this over the phone. All in favor, say aye.

16 (Chorus of aye.)

17 CHAIR MELIUS: Opposed? Okay.

18 MR. KATZ: Okay.

19 CHAIR MELIUS: Good. Ted, you're up.

20 MR. KATZ: Okay, thanks. And let me 

21 note, before I talk about tasking, Dr. Richardson 

22 has joined us. Welcome, Dr. Richardson.
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1 MEMBER RICHARDSON: I know I'm a bit 

2 late.

3 TASKING SC&A REVIEWS OF RECENT NIOSH PROCEDURES UPDATES

4 MR. KATZ: And Wanda is welcome to jump 

5 in and elaborate or anyone else in the Procedures 

6 Subcommittee.

7 But over the past couple of Procedures 

8 Subcommittee Meetings, we've had a number of 

9 procedures and PERs recommended, or they were 

10 finally recommended at this last meeting, for 

11 review.

12 I've sent those materials around. 

13 They're also posted on the website. But I sent 

14 them around to all the Board Members.

15 They include two TIBs, Technical 

16 Information Bulletins, relating to Y-12, that are 

17 basically substantial revisions in the existing 

18 methods that were recommended to get reviewed.

19 And one is on evaluation of film and 

20 badge dosimetry, and the other one is on the 

21 coworker external dosimetry data.

22 And then four PERs, three of which --
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1 for three of these PERs, we -- the SC&A has never 

2 examined the base dose reconstruction methodology. 

3 For one of them, they did under a sort of expanded 

4 DR case review to the Dose Reconstruction 

5 Subcommittee.

6 But for those three, they have not. 

7 And so the recommendation is that they not just 

8 review the PER but review the full methodology for 

9 dose reconstruction for those sites. And these 

10 are all smaller sites, I think.

11 But so, about the thumbnail on the use, 

12 and, I don't know if you want to take them one at 

13 a time or all together, and I don't know, Wanda, 

14 whether you have more you want to elaborate about 

15 these? Or anyone else.

16 MEMBER MUNN; No, I really don't have 

17 anything further to say, Ted. And thank you very 

18 much for wrapping the issues so neatly, and for 

19 putting together the specifics for the remainder 

20 of the Board's review.

21 There was really not much discussion 

22 necessary on these items when we took a look at them 
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1 in Procedures. They are all fairly clearly items 

2 which I think all of the Members of our Subcommittee 

3 agree were not only reasonable but preferred items 

4 that need to be reviewed.

5 So you have them in front of you, and 

6 it would be my wish that we simply accept them as 

7 is unless specific Board Members have some question 

8 or comment with regard to any of them.

9 CHAIR MELIUS: Any Board Members with 

10 questions?

11 (No audible response.)

12 MEMBER MUNN: If not, then I move that. 

13 The Subcommittee requests that each of these items 

14 be accepted for the designation of review by our 

15 contractor.

16 CHAIR MELIUS: Yes so it's essentially 

17 a motion from the Subcommittee?

18 MEMBER MUNN: It is.

19 CHAIR MELIUS: I think. Anybody 

20 opposed?

21 (No audible response.)

22 CHAIR MELIUS: Then we'll go forward.
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1 MEMBER MUNN: Thank you.

2 CHAIR MELIUS: Go ahead, Ted, to tasks.

3 MR. KATZ: Okay, great, thanks.

4 CHAIR MELIUS: Thank you.

5 MR. KATZ: And, just for the record, 

6 the sites are Norton Company, Bridgeport Brass, 

7 Aluminum Company of American, and Anaconda, I think 

8 that is.

9 MEMBER MUNN: And the PERs, yes.

10 MR. KATZ: Right.

11 Okay, so, now, we're on to the next 

12 item.

13 PANTEX SEC CLASS EXPANDED BY HHS TO INCLUDE 1954-1957

14 CHAIR MELIUS: Yes, and this is a 

15 report on the Pantex SEC Class. Jim Neton will 

16 explain.

17 Dr. Neton?

18 DR. NETON: Okay, thanks, Dr. Melius.

19 Yes, in September of 2013, the 

20 Secretary of HHS, following the Board's 

21 recommendation, made a determination not to add a 

22 Class of employees at Pantex to the SEC covered in 
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1 the time period from January 1st, '51 through 

2 December 31st, '57. That's the beginning of the 

3 covered period.

4 Subsequent to that, in November, a 

5 petitioner filed a challenge to that 

6 determination. And pursuant to the requirements 

7 in 42 CFR Part 83, a review panel was appointed by 

8 the Secretary to conduct an administrative review 

9 of that determination.

10 The panel met a number of times over a 

11 few years, and in its final report and a in 

12 subsequent addendum, they concluded that, although 

13 HHS did comply with the regulatory procedures in 

14 Part 83, the administrative record did not 

15 sufficiently support the fact that reconstruction 

16 indeed could be done for internal exposure during 

17 that time period.

18 They raised a couple of points. One 

19 was, you know, certain data did not exist in that 

20 time period, or in fact, some of the data that were 

21 presented in the report ER were substantially 

22 conflicting.
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1 So they were very confused about what 

2 was in the -- well, they were concerned about the 

3 administrative record not supporting the 

4 conclusion, not necessarily that the conclusion 

5 was wrong.

6 Based on this, the panel recommends the 

7 Secretary revise the decision not to add a Class. 

8 And, in fact, on January 4th, the Secretary issued 

9 a designation adding the Class to the SEC during 

10 the time period, that early time period.

11 And that's all I have to comment on 

12 that.

13 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay. Thank you, Jim.

14 Any questions about that?

15 MEMBER ZIEMER: Is that --

16 CHAIR MELIUS: Do you have questions? 

17 MEMBER ZIEMER: Is it okay to ask my 

18 question?

19 CHAIR MELIUS: Who is this?

20 MEMBER ZIEMER: This is Ziemer.

21 CHAIR MELIUS: Oh, okay, Paul, I'm 

22 sorry, I couldn't hear you. Your voice is really 
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1 --- what you said was -- go ahead, Paul.

2 MEMBER ZIEMER: Okay. One of the 

3 concerns that I would address is classified 

4 material. And I am aware, I think, in the report 

5 of the review panel's claim -- and they had no 

6 access to classified material.

7 Whereas, some of our Board folks do 

8 have. So do we have any assurance that this 

9 decision did not require the access to the 

10 classified material? Would that have affected 

11 their decision at all, or do you know the answer 

12 to that?

13 DR. NETON: This is Jim.

14 I don't know the answer to that. It 

15 certainly didn't come up in their report.

16 MEMBER ZIEMER: Well, under the 

17 convention that they had no access to classified 

18 material, they could only look at what they -- only 

19 work with the unclassified information available 

20 to them.

21 DR. NETON: Yes, that is true. I don't 

22 know if that was in reference to the fact that the 
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1 Board had access.

2 MEMBER CLAWSON: This is Brad. Could 

3 I make a comment on this?

4 MEMBER ZIEMER: Yes.

5 CHAIR MELIUS: Paul, this is 

6 pertaining a lot to depleted uranium. And what our 

7 stance was on it, and I spent a lot of time trying 

8 to locate information pertaining to the depleted 

9 uranium there, and I could not -- all the records 

10 were gone from that.

11 I could find part numbers and 

12 everything else that pertained to that, but I could 

13 not prove that it was there because the records had 

14 been destroyed.

15 And that is not classified, but see, the 

16 way we've always looked at it is, it's like, if we 

17 can't prove that it was there, then we have to go 

18 off the stance that it really wasn't.

19 And this was a hard thing to do, but we 

20 couldn't -- we had no documentation. We had no 

21 proof. All we had was records of certain weapons 

22 that contained this and their numbers.
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1 And, we could find those numbers for the 

2 site, but not -- but we couldn't find anything for 

3 sure.

4 And I think this is kind of where they 

5 went off on it. That's kind of what I got from what 

6 the report was, especially with what they were 

7 looking at.

8 DR. NETON: This is Jim.

9 Actually, in our report, we did assume 

10 that depleted uranium was present during those 

11 years.

12 MEMBER CLAWSON: Right.

13 DR. NETON: It might not have not been, 

14 and we could find no evidence of any bioassay or 

15 air monitors to support the fact that the exposures 

16 were actually small.

17 Our Evaluation Report indicated that if 

18 it were there, the quotas would have been very small 

19 because they were handling freshly-made depleted 

20 uranium that hadn't oxidized. That didn't hold 

21 any water with the review panel. They felt that, 

22 unless you have bioassay or air monitoring to prove 
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1 that, that it was pure speculation on our part.

2 MEMBER CLAWSON: Right. And that's 

3 kind of what I was trying to get to is this kind 

4 of speculation. We knew that it was there. We 

5 could go from there, but you know, this was part 

6 of the fight that we had, was that it was new, and 

7 it hadn't had a chance to oxidize.

8 MEMBER MUNN: This is Wanda.

9 I can't help but comment that in the 

10 absence of hard data on these, known to be small 

11 levels, so potential contamination, plutonium, 

12 neptunium, and some tritium were mentioned in the 

13 reports, and knowing what we know about it from 

14 other places and common knowledge with respect to 

15 how these things operate, we have to recognize the 

16 fact it was no more likely that they were there in 

17 significant quantities than it is that they were 

18 not.

19 So it's really disheartening when we 

20 have to rely on an administrative finding rather 

21 than a technical one with respect to these things. 

22 Because it creates such a false impression with all 
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1 of the people involved, not just the public, but 

2 the claimants as well.

3 But we have gone through the duly 

4 constituted process and I think, I, personally, 

5 have to maintain that I believe the panel has 

6 incorrectly made their finding. But they have 

7 their finding, and due process has been undertaken.

8 It appears to me that we have no 

9 recourse other than to accept it.

10 CHAIR MELIUS: Any other Board Member 

11 comments?

12 MEMBER BEACH: Yes. Jim, this is 

13 Josie.

14 I have a question for Jim on the 

15 surrogate data. I noticed in the report it says 

16 that it didn't -- that the surrogate data wasn't 

17 appropriately applied to the earlier years. Can 

18 you comment on that at all, and does that bring into 

19 question how we're using surrogate data?

20 DR. NETON: I don't recall that we used 

21 surrogate data. We actually assigned no exposure 

22 to the handling of the uranium, the depleted 
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1 uranium, during that period, because it was fresh 

2 and we assumed that exposures were almost 

3 nonexistent.

4 MEMBER BEACH: Yes.

5 DR. NETON: There was an issue related 

6 to extrapolation of the air monitoring from burning 

7 in that era. And we had some older or earlier data 

8 -- or later data, like in the 1960s, I think, that 

9 we said we could extrapolate back in time to cover 

10 that exposure pathway.

11 And I think that's what they were 

12 commenting on in the report. But I don't recall 

13 specifically where we mentioned the use of 

14 surrogate data in that Evaluation Report.

15 MEMBER BEACH: Okay, thanks.

16 CHAIR MELIUS: Any other Board Member 

17 comments?

18 (No audible response.)

19 CHAIR MELIUS: All right. I would 

20 just, Jim, I would add just two things.

21 One is, I mean, the panel did put effort 

22 into this. So I don't think we can fault them for 
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1 being, you know, overly superficial, and given how 

2 complicated this program is and so forth, it's hard 

3 to -- for people outside to get a handle on it.

4 But you know, they did make some effort 

5 on this.

6 I think the other thing I would add is 

7 that it just behooves us to make sure that what we 

8 put into the administrative record is, you know, 

9 sufficient. And we make an effort, but you know, 

10 we've been doing this for so long, and we, you know, 

11 we tend to, I think, at times, you know, make some 

12 assumptions about that or take some, I won't say 

13 shortcuts, but not this thoroughly documenting 

14 certain things.

15 The fact that you can do those dose 

16 reconstruction, or the methods and data that back 

17 that up, we just need to keep that in mind, and make 

18 sure that we make the effort to, you know, put this 

19 -- put all of our, you know, rationale and our facts 

20 behind that. Give rationale to use, and get those 

21 on the record as we make, you know, recommendations 

22 on these sites.
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1 DR. NETON: Yes, this is Jim Neton.

2 I might add that subsequent to that 

3 decision, we have really ramped up our packages 

4 that go back to the Secretary to include a very 

5 detailed summary of the logic behind the decisions 

6 that was made, to help any potential review panels 

7 evaluate the record a little better and a little 

8 easier, actually.

9 CHAIR MELIUS: Yes, yes, thanks, Jim.

10 Yes, I think that's important, and it's 

11 important that we, you know, do that and take the 

12 time and effort to, mainly the time, to go through 

13 some of this, even though we sort of -- you know, 

14 we've been doing it long enough, and many of the 

15 sites and situations are similar enough that we 

16 take things for granted or whatever.

17 So but, you know, not always -- it isn't 

18 always how other people would look at it when they 

19 can only rely on an administrative record.

20 And in this site, I think we're probably 

21 a little more careful about what we're saying in 

22 open meetings and Work Group meetings because of 
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1 the interpretation issues.

2 So I suspect that contributed to it in 

3 some way. But anyway, we just need to move on from 

4 this situation.

5 Any other comments?

6 (No audible response.)

7 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay. We'll move on. 

8 Moving on, you'll tell us what's next.

9 SPECIAL EXPOSURE COHORT PETITION STATUS UPDATE

10 MR. RUTHERFORD: Yes, okay.

11 Well, we plan to present two addendums 

12 at the March Advisory Board Meeting, one for Los 

13 Alamos, and one for INL.

14 We recently got access to DOE's, the 

15 Occurrence Reporting Database, and are polling the 

16 Los Alamos reports now. That was the final item 

17 needed to complete the addendum.

18 It's going to be close, but I think we 

19 can get it out in time.

20 The INL addendum addresses the 

21 remaining areas that were reserved in the initial 

22 evaluation. And that report in final review now 
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1 and should be out within the next couple of weeks 

2 at the latest.

3 And those are the only two evaluations 

4 we will have for the meeting.

5 And that's it. Questions?

6 CHAIR MELIUS: Questions or comments 

7 for --

8 (No audible response.)

9 CHAIR MELIUS: Move on. Yes, try not 

10 to make them too close. That's all.

11 MR. RUTHERFORD: Like I said, INL will 

12 be no problem. That one should be out next week 

13 or shortly thereafter. The other one, it's just 

14 going to start the review process probably by the 

15 end of next week. And as long as the report, you 

16 know, goes through that initial review, I think 

17 we'll be fine. But I'll keep you guys informed.

18 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay, great.

19 UPDATES FROM WORK GROUPS AND SUBCOMMITTEES

20 Updates from Work Groups and 

21 Subcommittees, as necessary. Any updates people 

22 would -- Board Members would like to provide?
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1 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Dave Kotelchuck, 

2 Rocky Flats.

3 We do have now a paper from NIOSH on the 

4 last item for the Rocky Flats, and we are planning 

5 to hold a meeting in February on that last item.

6 I believe we can -- may be able to give 

7 a recommendation at the March meeting for the SEC 

8 application.

9 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay.

10 Is this Josie?

11 MEMBER BEACH: We may be able to hold 

12 a conference call for KCP for the last Site Profile 

13 issues in the next -- maybe the next couple weeks 

14 or a month. We should have -- should be getting 

15 ahold of Ted to schedule something soon.

16 MR. KATZ: Right. And on that, I'm 

17 just waiting to hear back. I asked a couple weeks 

18 ago, John Stiver to take a look at the scope of that 

19 and see whether they can report out, so that we can 

20 -- on their review of that, so that we can schedule 

21 the Work Group meeting.

22 So as soon as -- I know John's on the 
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1 line, but I'm not putting you on the spot now, John, 

2 just as soon as we hear back from you, we'll take 

3 care of that scheduling.

4 MEMBER ROESSLER: This is Gen on 

5 Carborundum.

6 MEMBER STIVER: So I should be able to 

7 get back to you later today.

8 MR. KATZ: Okay, that's good.

9 CHAIR MELIUS: Go ahead, Gen.

10 MEMBER ROESSLER: Okay. As the Board 

11 may recall, at the November 30th meeting, our Work 

12 Group presented a report and a motion to find dose 

13 reconstruction feasible for Carborundum, and, 

14 therefore, deny the proposed SEC.

15 However, the motion was tabled because 

16 the Board requested that NIOSH complete the work 

17 that they had talked about on the surrogate data 

18 values for external exposures. And wanted that 

19 before we hold the vote.

20 So NIOSH has worked on this, and reports 

21 that it plans to complete the necessary work in late 

22 February. And then we expect that you'll give SC&A 
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1 time to review the responses and then present it 

2 -- we're holding a Work Group meeting, and, Ted, 

3 you can help on this.

4 I wrote down on my notes here March 

5 10th, but I think I got the wrong date there.

6 MR. KATZ: So this is Ted.

7 I'm not sure. I'm trying to remember 

8 which I've booked. I have a meeting on March 10th. 

9 It might be the Carborundum.

10 MEMBER ROESSLER: No, the March 10th, 

11 I looked it up, and that's the ANL.

12 MR. KATZ: Yes, let's add that to ANL 

13 East, but Carborundum complaint, that's what I was 

14 just -- I'm just waiting for Jim Neton to respond, 

15 and then I can book it.

16 But we have -- everyone else can make 

17 a date, so we will have a date sort of middle of 

18 March for that Work Group meeting.

19 MEMBER ROESSLER: Okay, no wonder I 

20 couldn't find it.

21 MR. KATZ: Yes, no, I haven't sent it 

22 out yet because I was waiting on Jim.
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1 MEMBER ROESSLER: Okay. So we hoped 

2 they'll brief the Board then after our meeting in 

3 March.

4 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay, great.

5 MEMBER CLAWSON: This is Brad on 

6 Savannah River.

7 CHAIR MELIUS: Go ahead.

8 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay. Just to bring 

9 people up to speed, I guess if you guys didn't know, 

10 there was some funding issues for Savannah River 

11 that have to be worked out, which Greg Lewis is 

12 taking care of.

13 We're still minus a declassifier at the 

14 site. Greg's said that he's trying to work on to 

15 that.

16 We also received from the ORAU Team, 

17 it's 0072, which is location of stable metal 

18 tritides used at Savannah River. We just received 

19 it, so that's out for review for SC&A.

20 And we're just proceeding forward.

21 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay, thank you, Brad.

22 Anybody else?
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1 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, this is Wanda for 

2 Procedures Review Subcommittee.

3 We did meet on January 10th, as I think 

4 Ted alluded to earlier. The first time in a number 

5 of months.

6 We had a rather full agenda covering 

7 most -- all of the major sites and a significant 

8 number of small ones, one type of procedure or other 

9 before us.

10 So as you know from the action we've 

11 just taken, there are a variety of new actions now 

12 in the hands of SC&A for review. And a number of 

13 follow-up actions awaiting completion of attention 

14 from NIOSH.

15 So when we meet again, the date not yet 

16 certain, we will again have a quite full agenda. 

17 I think there are no major glitches in the work 

18 process that we can foresee right now.

19 So you'll all be advised, of course, as 

20 soon as we have a date certain.

21 Thanks.

22 CHAIR MELIUS: Great, thank you.
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1 Anybody else?

2 MEMBER ZIEMER: This is Paul. I can 

3 give you a brief report on TBD-6000 Work Group.

4 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay, great. Go ahead, 

5 Paul.

6 MEMBER ZIEMER: The Work Group met on 

7 December 14th to go over the SC&A review of Appendix 

8 BB, which is General Steel Industries. We have 

9 concluded that SC&A review and have 

10 recommendations to make to the Board at the March 

11 meeting.

12 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay. Great, thanks, 

13 Paul.

14 Anybody else?

15 (No audible response.)

16 CHAIR MELIUS: Well, I'll just mention 

17 the Surrogate Data Work Group will be having a, 

18 hopefully, a short meeting, conference call 

19 meeting some time between, hopefully, now and the 

20 next Board meeting of Allied Chemical Site that --

21 a small site that we need to be able to look at and 

22 we got the documentation that we need from NIOSH 
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1 and so forth and SC&A. So, we'll be -- I'll be 

2 scheduling that, hopefully, before the March 

3 meeting.

4 Anybody else?

5 (No audible response.)

6 CHAIR MELIUS: Okay. Ted, do you want 

7 to talk? Go back to plans for the March meeting?

8 PLANS FOR MARCH 2017 BOARD MEETING

9 MR. KATZ: Yes, thank you.

10 So I have sort of an initial draft of 

11 what our agenda might look like. And right now, 

12 for all of you, you might recall we were planning 

13 to meet in Naperville, which is where -- I have not 

14 been there before, but the Board has. Naperville, 

15 Illinois, it's just a little bit outside of 

16 Chicago. And we don't have a hotel yet.

17 And if anyone has any comments about the 

18 place you stayed at last, that's one of the hotels 

19 in the running. So if anybody, for example, 

20 thought it was a terrible place, let me know. But 

21 we'll get that sorted out soon.

22 So for members of the public, this is 
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1 March 22nd and March 23rd.

2 Right now, the agenda's looking like 

3 about a day and a half. Some things could fall 

4 away, but we have other things we could add in, too.

5 So let me just sort of run through the 

6 non-regular pieces.

7 So as Paul just mentioned, we have the 

8 TBD-6000 Work Group reporting out on GSI Site 

9 Profile Review.

10 We have, as Gen reported, Carborundum 

11 SEC petition that will either be an update or a 

12 recommendation. It's a little bit unclear at the 

13 moment, but it could be either.

14 And if it's just an update, then this 

15 may fall off as an agenda item and come under the

16 Work Group reports. But there's a reasonable 

17 chance that it'll be a recommendation.

18 Then we have the, as Lavon noted, we 

19 have the LANL SEC petitions, the addendum updates. 

20 So, that's a presentation to the Board. And I 

21 don't know whether LANL Work Group wants to hear 

22 it first or just going to hear it there.
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1 And similarly, we have the INL. We 

2 have an addendum for that. That'll also be a report 

3 from NIOSH to the Board for that addendum.

4 And then there's also -- and this is 

5 something for the Work Group to sort out -- there's 

6 other work underway, the reports that have come out 

7 on INL since the last Board meeting.

8 So, the Work Group may also have things 

9 to report on, depending on whether it gets together 

10 and goes over any of those materials that have come 

11 out recently.

12 We have also then Argonne East. We'll 

13 just get an update from -- the Work Group will have 

14 met once shortly before.

15 And I think, just to remind everyone, 

16 I think our aim, one of our aims in that Work Group 

17 will be to identify if there's any matters to which 

18 we would particularly like public input at that 

19 point. And the Work Group can sort that out in that 

20 meeting.

21 And when we get to the public session 

22 that day, at the end of that day, you know, we can 
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1 solicit particulars, too.

2 And we'll need an effort from NIOSH, as 

3 well, to help sort of advertise, and NIOSH and DOL 

4 advertise this meeting so that we can get good 

5 attendance from claimants in the area. That would 

6 be great.

7 That's running through the first day. 

8 The second day, the items I have so far, I don't 

9 know whether we'll get to this, Jim, but Dose 

10 Reconstruction Review, methods for future reviews.

11 We still have the consistency matter to 

12 address.

13 CHAIR MELIUS: On that, we're waiting 

14 for, I think, the report that Stu has been reviewing 

15 for a while.

16 MR. KATZ: That's right. That's 

17 right.

18 CHAIR MELIUS: I haven't -- I don't 

19 know the status of that. I know Stu's away on 

20 vacation. And so, but, Jim Neton, if you could 

21 remind him when he gets back?

22 DR. NETON: I will do that.
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1 CHAIR MELIUS: Yes, I'm not sure. As 

2 of a couple weeks ago, he -- I know that he was still 

3 reviewing it.

4 MR. KATZ: Okay, good.

5 So that's, anyway, that's then it 

6 sounds like it may be a tentative or iffy

7 proposition. Yes, if it's already, then we'll 

8 have it --

9 CHAIR MELIUS: -- know the status of 

10 that, then we can schedule a Work Group meeting.

11 MR. KATZ: Right. And if that doesn't 

12 make it under the wire, then we can just update 

13 folks during the Work Group updates instead of 

14 having this as an agenda item I guess. Right?

15 CHAIR MELIUS: Yes.

16 MR. KATZ: Yes, okay.

17 And then we're also wanting an update 

18 on Savannah River Site SEC. So right now, I guess 

19 that's etched in, because I don't know really --

20 at this point, I don't know who will have the 

21 material, whether it will be Brad reporting for the 

22 Work Group or Brad and Tim, if there's material for 
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1 Tim to report, or Joe, who is also doing work on 

2 this.

3 And he's, I believe he's scheduled to 

4 go to Savannah River Site. He said god and SRS 

5 willing, probably in February. So we'll see how 

6 we're -- things are going there.

7 But we'll have an update anyway at the 

8 session.

9 Rocky Flats I've got in there, too, as 

10 Dr. Kotelchuck mentioned.

11 And then I also have in there, for now, 

12 Kansas City Plant, assuming we can get our work done 

13 for the Work Group so that the Work Group can meet 

14 in advance.

15 So some of those items are a bit iffy, 

16 but it looks like we'll certainly be into a second 

17 day.

18 And right now, I have us ending around 

19 1:00.

20 What I don't have in here, which can 

21 either fill in or add on if we want to go longer, 

22 but we haven't had any reports from the Procedures 
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1 Review Subcommittee on their reviews in a while. 

2 And certainly that can substitute for something, 

3 or I don't know if you want to make the day longer, 

4 Jim, given that people on the second day, if they 

5 can, like to get out of town.

6 MEMBER MUNN: We can make it pretty 

7 long, if you'd like.

8 (Laughter.)

9 MR. KATZ: Thank you, Wanda.

10 CHAIR MELIUS: So a day or two, right?

11 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, exactly.

12 MEMBER CLAWSON: Hey, Ted, this is 

13 Brad.

14 I was wondering, it seems like we're 

15 going out there for this ANL West or East. I was 

16 wondering if there's any way if we came in early, 

17 if we could have a tour?

18 MR. KATZ: Well, that's an excellent 

19 question, which I'll follow up on, Brad. I know 

20 nothing about the situation there, but actually, 

21 we have Isaf on the line, too. So Isaf, if you 

22 could sort of give a heads-up, and I can send an 
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1 email to Greg about that.

2 DR. AL-NABULSI: I will, Ted. And, 

3 also, with regard to Savannah River Site, if I can 

4 say something?

5 MR. KATZ: Absolutely.

6 DR. AL-NABULSI: It's now scheduled 

7 for you to visit the site February 13. And with 

8 regard to classification, review of documents, the 

9 site informs us those are a priority for them, and 

10 they will be glad to release some of the documents 

11 shortly to the Board and to NIOSH.

12 MEMBER CLAWSON: Thank you.

13 DR. AL-NABULSI: But about the site

14 visit, I will let Greg aware of it.

15 MR. KATZ: Okay. And I will, Isaf, I 

16 will also send an email so that it's not just --

17 DR. AL-NABULSI: Great.

18 MR. KATZ: -- you. But thank you.

19 Okay so, and if we have a site visit, 

20 I think I'll try to get it for before the meeting. 

21 Right? Brad, the day before? I mean, that's 

22 generally what we've tried to do.
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1 MEMBER CLAWSON: Okay, yes, I 

2 appreciate that. Thank you.

3 MR. KATZ: Okay.

4 So that covers it for what I have for 

5 plans for March.

6 MEMBER LEMEN: Ted?

7 MR. KATZ: Yes?

8 MEMBER LEMEN: This is Dick Lemen.

9 Before we close, I have a question. 

10 Over the last years that I've been on the Board --

11 this might be true of other Members -- I have 

12 complied or collected a lot of data that you all 

13 send us for the Board meetings.

14 And I don't know what to do with it. 

15 Some of it's classified. I don't know -- I don't 

16 want to just throw it away.

17 MR. KATZ: None of it is classified, 

18 Dick. But some of it is probably Privacy 

19 Act-protected. And that material needs to be 

20 shredded. But I'll be happy to chat with you 

21 offline on that, too.

22 But I mean --
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1 MEMBER LEMEN: Okay.

2 MR. KATZ: -- this data thing is, a lot 

3 of materials we send to you are PA-cleared, in which 

4 case, you can actually just toss it when you're done 

5 with it.

6 If it's Privacy Act-protected, and they 

7 always say it at the bottom of the document, those 

8 would need to be shredded. You can mail them if 

9 you don't want to both shredding them, send them 

10 back to us. We can -- by FedEx, but one way or the 

11 other, you need to --

12 MEMBER LEMEN: What about -- well, I 

13 can ask you this separately, but what about the CDs 

14 that, you know, I've probably got two or three dozen 

15 CDs that are --

16 MR. KATZ: Right, and again, you can 

17 destroy them, or you can send them back.

18 MEMBER LEMEN: Okay.

19 MR. KATZ: Thanks, Dick.

20 MEMBER LEMEN: I just noticed a lot of 

21 them said not cleared, and so that's why I thought 

22 --
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1 MR. KATZ: Exactly, not cleared means 

2 they're predetermined to include Privacy 

3 Act-protected information.

4 MEMBER LEMEN: Okay. Thank you.

5 MR. KATZ: Thanks.

6 MEMBER MUNN: A good pair of scissors 

7 takes care of CDs.

8 MEMBER LEMEN: Now, Wanda, you would 

9 not say that.

10 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, I would.

11 MEMBER LEMEN: You're going to get in 

12 trouble.

13 MEMBER MUNN: That's how I dispose of 

14 mine.

15 CHAIR MELIUS: Can we take control?

16 MEMBER LEMEN: You might get in 

17 trouble.

18 CHAIR MELIUS: Can we get back on the 

19 agenda, which is, the agenda is to adjourn the 

20 meeting.

21 MEMBER LEMEN: I suggest, and I 

22 recommend and motion that we adjourn the meeting.
45 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

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1 CHAIR MELIUS: And, I think everyone 

2 agrees. So anyway, we'll see you all in March if 

3 not before.

4 Thanks.

5 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 

6 went off the record at 11:45 a.m.)