1 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL 

+ + + + + 

NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR OCCUPATIONAL 

SAFETY AND HEALTH 

+ + + + + 

ADVISORY BOARD ON RADIATION AND 

 WORKER HEALTH 

+ + + + + 

 95th MEETING 

+ + + + + 

TUESDAY 

DECEMBER 17, 2013 

+ + + + + 

The meeting convened telephonically at

12:00 p.m., Eastern Standard Time, James M.

Melius, Chairman, presiding. 

PRESENT: 

JAMES M. MELIUS, Chairman

HENRY ANDERSON, Member

JOSIE BEACH, Member

BRADLEY P. CLAWSON, Member

R. WILLIAM FIELD, Member

DAVID KOTELCHUCK, Member

WANDA I. MUNN, Member

JOHN W. POSTON, SR., Member

DAVID B. RICHARDSON, Member

GENEVIEVE S. ROESSLER, Member

PHILLIP SCHOFIELD, Member

LORETTA R. VALERIO, Member

PAUL L. ZIEMER, Member

TED KATZ, Designated Federal Official 

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 2 

REGISTERED AND/OR PUBLIC COMMENT PARTICIPANTS 

AL-NABULSI, ISAF, DOE

BATT, CRISTINA, CDC

CRAWFORD, CHRIS, DOL

HARTSFIELD, DEKEELY, HHS

HINNEFELD, STU, DCAS

MCKEEL, DAN

NETON, JIM, DCAS

RAMSPOTT, JOHN

RUTHERFORD, LAVON, DCAS

STIVER, JOHN, SC&A 

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 3 

TABLE OF CONTENTS 

AGENDA 

Roll-call...................................5 

Special Exposure Cohort (SEC) ............... 6 

Petition Status Update -

Mr. Rutherford, DCAS 

Updates from Work Groups and Subcommittees -

WG/SC Chairs 

Mound Work Group ............................ 7 

Josie Beach, Chair

Dose Reconstruction Subcommittee...........11 

David Kotelchuck, Ph.D., M.P.H.

Fernald Work Group ......................... 11 

Bradley P Clawson, Chair

Procedures Review Subcommittee.............12 

Wanda I. Munn, Chair

TBD-6000 Work Group ........................ 16 

Paul L Ziemer, Ph.D., Chair

Idaho National Laboratory Work Group ....... 18 

Phillip Schofield, Chair

Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

Work Group ................................. 18 

Paul L. Ziemer, Ph.D., Chair 

Plans for the January 2014 Board Meeting -

All Members................................21 

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 4
 

1 
 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 
 12:00 p.m. 

3 
 MR. KATZ: So let's just do 

4 
 roll-call. We don't need to address conflict 

5 
 of interest because we don't have any actions 

6 
 today for this meeting. So I'm just going to 

7 
 run down the line. And I'll name those that 

8 
 I already know are on. 

9 
 (Roll-call.) 

10 
 MR. KATZ: Okay, then. Dr. 

11 Melius, it's your agenda. 

12 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Thanks. 

13 
 And I believe we have a relatively short 

14 
 agenda today. So, first of all, welcome, 

15 
 everybody. I will admit, Brad, that it is 

16 snowing here in New York today. 

17 
 MEMBER CLAWSON: That's nice, Jim, 

18 
 because it's warm here, beautiful blue sky. 

19 It's wonderful. 

20 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Well, 

21 you'll get yours. 

22 
 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: I think 

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 5



1 
 they've already gotten theirs. 

2 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I know. I've 

3 
 been watching that. 

4 
 Okay. Anyway, the first item on 

5 
 the agenda is SEC petition update from Lavon 

6 
 Rutherford. 

7 
 MR. RUTHERFORD: All right. Yes. 

8 
 This is Lavon Rutherford. We have two SEC 

9 
 reports that we plan to present at the 

10 
 January meeting, first at the Kansas City 

11 
 plant, and we have an Evaluation Report, 

12 
 addendum, for Joslyn. The Kansas City Plan 

13 
 Evaluation Report right now is in internal 

14 
 review. We hope to have the report to the 

15 
 Advisory Board and then out to the 

16 
 petitioners by the end of December or early 

17 January at the latest. 

18 
 We also are working on an addendum 

19 
 for Joslyn. The decision to do an addendum 

20 
 for Joslyn recently came up. We made the 

21 
 determination we needed to extend the Class 

22 
 about six or seven months for Joslyn. Again, 

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 6



1 
 we are working on that addendum and are 

2 
 trying to get it completed in time for a Work 

3 
 Group meeting in January. I believe it is 

4 
 January 16th. 

5 
 Worst case, we will present our 

6 
 findings from this addendum to the Work 

7 
 Group. And the actual report will come out 

8 
 shortly after the meeting. The schedule is 

9 
 really tight right now. It's got it coming 

10 
 out about the time of the meeting, but, like 

11 
 I said, at worst case, we will present the 

12 
 findings of that addendum to allow the Work 

13 
 Group -- you know, I think it's pretty 

14 
 straightforward. So I don't think it will be 

15 a problem. 

16 
 And that's all we have for the 

17 
 January meeting, is two reports. And that's 

18 all I have. 

19 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Any 

20 questions for Lavon? 

21 (No response.) 

22 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Let me 

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 7



1 
 get the right agenda. I was just peeking 

2 
 ahead to the other one. Okay. 

3 
 Okay. Next on our agenda is any 

4 
 updates from Subcommittees or Work Groups. 

5 
 And I won't go through the list. So just if 

6 
 anybody has something they want to update, 

7 
 speak up. 

8 
 MEMBER BEACH: Jim, this is Josie. 

9 
 I have a brief one from Mound. 

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Go ahead. 

11 
 MEMBER BEACH: So the Mound Work 

12 
 Group held a brief phone call on November 

13 
 26th to discuss some very specific concerns 

14 
 that were raised by the Mound petitioners 

15 
 regarding the MESH data and whether NIOSH had 

16 
 adequately justified its decision not to use 

17 
 the MESH tritium entries as evidence of 

18 
 monitoring and whether NIOSH had 

19 
 independently validated the tritium logbooks 

20 
 as being adequate and sufficiently complete 

21 
 to be used in the intended way for the 1959 

22 to 1980 SEC. 

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 8



1 
 The petitioner brought it up 

2 
 before the Board at our last two meetings. 

3 
 Some of the concerns were -- and they were 

4 
 are the names sufficiently legible, complete, 

5 
 identifiable to be used to identify which 

6 
 workers ought to be included in the SEC? And 

7 
 the worker concerns would be whether that 

8 
 validation was adequate under the 

9 
 circumstances. 

10 
 We held the meeting. NIOSH agreed 

11 
 to look into how the validation was handled 

12 
 for the logbooks. We got that report from 

13 
 NIOSH on Friday. And the Work Group Members, 

14 
 it was very brief. Did anybody have a 

15 chance to review that? 

16 
 MEMBER CLAWSON: I am sorry, 

17 
 Josie. This is Brad. I didn't have a chance 

18 to look at that yet. 

19 
 MEMBER BEACH: Okay. How about 

20 
 you, Paul? Did you get a chance to look at 

21 it? 

22 
 MEMBER ZIEMER: No. We have been 

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 9



1 
 out of town, and I have not had a chance to 

2 
 look at that. 

3 
 MEMBER BEACH: Okay. Well, then I 

4 
 won't close out other than I looked at it. 

5 
 It seemed pretty basic. And it also seemed 

6 
 complete to me. 

7 
 I checked in with Joe. And SC&A 

8 
 agreed that it was pretty standard and 

9 
 complete. And they had no issues for it. 

10 
 So that's my report. Let me also 

11 
 say that I did talk to Deb. She indicated at 

12 
 the meeting that she was happy with the phone 

13 
 call and the information that was presented. 

14 
 And she agrees that the meeting met her 

15 concerns. 

16 
 So I don't know, Ted, if we need 

17 
 to report out more officially than that or, 

18 
 of course, wait for the Work Group Members to 

19 
 take a look at that. And maybe I can update 

20 again at the next meeting. 

21 
 MR. KATZ: Yes. I think that will 

22 work. 

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 10



1 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. I think 

2 
 that would be fine, Josie. I think maybe do 

3 
 a quick Work Group call to go over 

4 
 everybody's review of the report. 

5 
 MEMBER BEACH: Yes. It's pretty 

6 
 brief. I think we can probably do it via 

7 
 email if everybody agrees with that. But we 

8 
 could also do a call, too. So I'll leave 

9 
 that up to your discretion, Ted. 

10 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: This is Jim. 

11 
 And, again, I haven't seen the report and 

12 
 don't know how brief it is. But it might be 

13 
 just better to have something on the record 

14 
 with a call or we could do it at a -- or, you 

15 
 know, you could just report back at a Board 

16 Meeting after --

17 MEMBER BEACH: Okay. 

18 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: -- you talk to 

19 
 the other, heard from the other Work Group 

20 Members. 

21 MEMBER BEACH: Okay. 

22 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Either one would 

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 11



1 
 be fine. 

2 
 MEMBER BEACH: Yes. 

3 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Just as long as 

4 
 we get something on the record. 

5 
 MEMBER BEACH: Okay. Sounds 

6 
 perfect. Thanks. 

7 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. 

8 
 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Jim, on the 

9 
 Dose Reconstruction Subcommittee, we met last 

10 
 on November 20th. And we're going to meet 

11 
 next on February 6th. We couldn't schedule 

12 anything for December or January among us. 

13 
 I can give you a report now or, if 

14 
 you'd like, maybe I should wait for the 

15 
 Kansas City meeting, Board meeting. And then 

16 
 it would be the same report now or later. So 

17 if you --

18 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: We have time in 

19 
 Kansas City. And I think more Board Members 

20 
 hopefully will be on. So why don't we wait 

21 until --

22 
 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: That sounds 

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 12



1 
 fine. 

2 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. Thanks. 

3 
 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Suffice it to 

4 
 say progress is being made. 

5 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Great. 

6 
 Any other Work Group or Subcommittee reports? 

7 
 MEMBER CLAWSON: Yes, Jim. This 

8 
 is Brad. I just wanted to kind of report on 

9 
 Fernald and Nevada Test Site. I've been in 

10 
 contact with Ted and also with DCAS. And 

11 
 we're trying to finish up these two sites, 

12 
 mainly Site Profile issues, DCAS due to their 

13 
 work schedule and stuff, it's going to be 

14 
 later in January or February, but we're 

15 
 working to finish up these Site Profile 

16 issues and close these sites out. 

17 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Good. Anybody 

18 else? 

19 
 MEMBER MUNN: I can give you a 

20 
 quick brief on what we've been doing in 

21 Procedures if you'd like. 

22 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Go ahead, Wanda. 

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 13



1 
 MEMBER MUNN: As you probably 

2 
 know, we tend to focus pretty clearly on the 

3 
 PERs. We have a total of 46 now done. 

4 
 Twenty-three of them have been assigned. And 

5 
 so we have a significant body of work 

6 
 involved in those alone. 

7 
 Among the PERs that we are looking 

8 
 at are 31, which is the Y-12 TBD revision. 

9 
 There are thorium issues there that we are 

10 
 still dealing with, PER-14, construction 

11 
 trade workers with adjustment factors that 

12 
 are still under discussion; PER-20. At 

13 
 Blockson there's an inhalation tool issue. 

14 
 Everything else is closed out there long 

15 since. 

16 
 And 11 is K-25 TBDs and the TIB 

17 
 revisions. There are just some selection 

18 
 criterion issues with respect to selection 

19 
 criteria. We have had significant amounts of 

20 
 discussions in the Subcommittee recently on 

21 
 selection criteria for case reviews and 

22 
 different documents that we are dealing with. 

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 14



1 
 And I think most of those are about to come 

2 
 to agreement. There doesn't seem to be too 

3 
 much of an issue. It's just a matter of 

4 
 working out the details. 

5 
 PER-37, Ames, is in Work Group 

6 
 discussions. So that is postponed for us 

7 
 until those discussions are finished. And we 

8 
 still have some -- PER-38 came before us and 

9 
 created a little bit of a discussion for us 

10 
 with respect to how to handle the entries in 

11 
 our Board reports simply because that was one 

12 
 of several that we have looked at where there 

13 
 are no findings and we are set up, of course, 

14 
 to deal with findings. So we have I think 

15 
 agreed that we will issue a finding of no 

16 
 findings in those cases where we do find 

17 ourselves with a review that is completed. 

18 
 We have had a technical call on 

19 
 the 3rd to talk about PER-9, the lymphoma 

20 
 issues. That was I think going to resolve 

21 
 itself very nicely. OTIB-54 is internal 

22 
 gross alpha and beta analyses. That was one 

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 15



1 
 of those procedures that had an enormous 

2 
 number of findings. Seventeen of them are 

3 
 closed. We have ten of them still in 

4 
 progress. They're proceeding. 

5 
 We have also been looking at IG6 
 001. The latest revisions, as you may 

7 
 remember, I think we have had at least three 

8 
 revisions of that very basic document. There 

9 
 are still some discussions going on with 

10 
 respect to the dose correction factors and 

11 
 geometry. But, again, that's close to 

12 resolution. 

13 
 We have just had released from 

14 
 SC&A PER-25, subtask 4. It was a case rework 

15 
 evaluation of shallow dose at the Huntington 

16 plant. So that is on our plate. 

17 
 And coming up soon is -- actually, 

18 
 most of the work I think has been done on 

19 
 OTIB-83 and 34, the latter being, both of 

20 
 them, with respect to internal dosimetry, the 

21 latter being X-10, I believe. 

22 
 And our next meeting is scheduled 

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 16



1 
 for February 13th. 

2 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Great. Thanks, 

3 
 Wanda. 

4 
 Anybody else, Work Group leaders? 

5 
 MEMBER ZIEMER: I can report on 

6 
 TBD-6000 Work Group. 

7 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Go ahead, 

8 
 Paul. 

9 
 MEMBER ZIEMER: The Work Group has 

10 
 a meeting scheduled for this week, for 

11 
 Thursday, December 19th. And the focus of 

12 
 that meeting will be on General Steel 

13 
 Industries. We will be looking at the skin 

14 
 dose calculations. We will be looking at the 

15 
 MCNP calculations for betatron exposures, 

16 
 also on the resuspension factor for the 

17 
 residual period, trying to reach closure on 

18 
 all of these items. Also, we hope to deal 

19 
 with the findings matrix for Appendix BB, 

20 
 which is the General Steel Industries 

21 
 findings matrix, and to deal with all of the 

22 remaining open issues on that. 

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 17



1 
 I'll report at the next full Board 

2 
 meeting where we stand in terms of all of 

3 
 these issues. 

4 
 Also, the Work Group, as LaVon 

5 
 Rutherford indicated, has a conference call 

6 
 meeting scheduled for January 16th. The 

7 
 focus of that will be the Joslyn SEC. And 

8 
 whether or not we will have any formal 

9 
 recommendation on that remains to be seen. 

10 
 So that is very briefly what we are working 

11 on. 

12 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. That 

13 explains the multiple meeting notices. 

14 
 MEMBER ZIEMER: Right, right. The 

15 
 Joslyn one will be touch and go as to whether 

16 
 or not they actually have their 

17 
 recommendation ready for the Work Group. 

18 
 But, as LaVon indicated, it seems to be 

19 
 fairly straightforward, but one is not always 

20 certain on that. 

21 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Well, we have 

22 
 faith in LaVon. We know how hard he is going 

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 18



1 
 to work over the holidays to get this done 

2 
 for us. 

3 
 MEMBER ZIEMER: Yes. That is what 

4 
 worries us. Just kidding, LaVon. Okay. 

5 
 That is my report. 

6 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Thanks, 

7 
 Paul. 

8 
 Any other Work Group? 

9 
 MEMBER SCHOFIELD: Yes. This is 

10 
 Phil Schofield. This is for INL. On the 1st 

11 
 of October, Pete Darnell issued a paper on 

12 
 the Work Group issue summary. Then SC&A 

13 
 issued another paper on the updated matrix 

14 
 for the issues on the 23rd of October. Then 

15 
 on March 25th, we're scheduled for a Work 

16 Group meeting in Cincinnati. 

17 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Good. 

18 Thanks, Phil. 

19 
 Anybody else? Mark I know isn't 

20 
 on the phone. I know the Savannah River Work 

21 
 Group has a meeting scheduled, I believe 

22 sometime in February. 

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 19



1 
 MEMBER ZIEMER: Well, this is 

2 
 Ziemer again. I probably should give a brief 

3 
 update on Lawrence Berkeley also. 

4 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Go ahead. 

5 
 MEMBER ZIEMER: Yes. Just this 

6 
 past week, we have received two White Papers 

7 
 from DCAS dealing with some of the findings 

8 
 that SC&A had on the findings matrix. I am 

9 
 uncertain -- and I just emailed Lara Hughes 

10 
 to find out whether there were -- a couple of 

11 
 additional White Papers I think are still 

12 
 due, but we will be able to schedule a Work 

13 
 Group meeting fairly soon. SC&A will need an 

14 
 opportunity to review those White Papers, but 

15 
 at least that seems to be moving ahead now. 

16 
 So we'll keep you posted at the next meeting. 

17 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: All right. And 

18 
 I've got to schedule a conference call of our 

19 
 Hanford Work Group to get -- we have some 

20 
 updates on that that we need to discuss. So 

21 I will --

22 
 MEMBER CLAWSON: Jim? Jim, the 

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 20



1 
 Savannah River Work Group is I believe 

2 
 February 6. 

3 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. I 

4 
 remember it was that week. I couldn't 

5 
 remember the exact date. 

6 
 MEMBER SCHOFIELD: Brad, is it the 

7 
 6th? Is it the 6th? 

8 
 MEMBER CLAWSON: It is either 5th 

9 
 or 6th. I was just --

10 
 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Oh, okay. 

11 
 Because we have a Dose Reconstruction 

12 Subcommittee meeting on the 6th. 

13 
 MEMBER CLAWSON: Yes. So it is 

14 the 5th because I --

15 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Oh, okay. 

16 
 MEMBER CLAWSON: I have the stuff 

17 there until I get back. 

18 MR. KATZ: It is the 5th. 

19 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: No problem. 

20 
 MEMBER SCHOFIELD: Okay. I just 

21 wanted to make sure I hadn't screwed up. 

22 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Well, make sure 

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 21



1 
 we keep everybody awake. All right. 

2 
 Anybody else with updates? 

3 
 (No response.) 

4 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. The next 

5 
 item on the agenda is the agenda for our 

6 
 January 14th meeting, which will be a one-day 

7 
 meeting in Kansas City. I don't know if we 

8 
 have a hotel yet. Do we or --

9 
 MR. KATZ: Well, we almost do, 

10 yes, almost. 

11 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Are you going to 

12 
 tell us that on the day before the meeting, 

13 that we almost have a hotel? 

14 
 MR. KATZ: Sooner than that. It 

15 
 should be pinned down in a few days. I mean, 

16 
 we have a tentative hotel, but it's not legal 

17 yet. 

18 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. 

19 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: Which day is it 

20 going to be? 

21 MR. KATZ: It is the 28th. 

22 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: Okay. Because I 

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 22



1 
 was holding the 29th and 30th as well. 

2 
 MR. KATZ: Right. No. I think I 

3 
 sent out a notice, but it's the 28th. And it 

4 
 will be a very full day but just that day. 

5 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: Okay. So we 

6 
 should be able to leave the 28th? 

7 
 MR. KATZ: Well, in the evening. 

8 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes. 

9 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: We are 

10 
 scheduled. The draft schedule, we have 

11 
 tentatively an update on General Steel, the 

12 Joslyn petition --

13 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes. 

14 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: -- and then the 

15 
 Kansas City petition. And then we have a 

16 public comment period on the --

17 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes. 

18 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: -- well, mostly 

19 focus on the Kansas --

20 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: So plan to leave 

21 on the 29th? 

22 
 MR. KATZ: Yes. Andy, I think 

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 23



1 
 that would be safer --

2 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: Okay. 

3 
 MR. KATZ: -- because there may be 

4 
 a lot of people from the local Kansas City 

5 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes. 

6 
 MR. KATZ: -- that may come for 

7 
 comment and we need --

8 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: Okay. Great. 

9 
 Thank you. 

10 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Or later in the 

11 evening of the --

12 MEMBER ANDERSON: Yes. 

13 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: -- 28th. You 

14 Midwesterners can 

15 
 MEMBER ANDERSON: It may work. 

16 I'll have to check it out. 

17 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. 

18 
 MEMBER MUNN: This is Wanda. I 

19 
 would like a little guidance if you 

20 
 anticipate some sort of Procedures 

21 presentation in Kansas City. 

22 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I don't think 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 24



1 
 we'll have a -- given how tight the schedule 

2 
 is, we will not do a Procedures presentation 

3 
 at this meeting. 

4 
 MEMBER MUNN: That's why I asked. 

5 
 It sounded like it was very tight, I mean. 

6 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Yes. Any 

7 
 questions or comments on the agenda? 

8 
 Anything else you think that we've missed? 

9 
 (No response.) 

10 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Any other 

11 
 Board business anybody would like to discuss? 

12 (No response.) 

13 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: If not, I'll 

14 entertain a motion to adjourn. 

15 MEMBER MUNN: So moved. 

16 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Wanda. 

17 Is there a second to that? 

18 
 MEMBER BEACH: I'll second it. 

19 
 This is Josie. 

20 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Anybody 

21 opposed? 

22 (No response.) 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
 

 

 

 

-- 

 

 

 

 25



1 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Okay. Everybody 

2 
 have a happy holidays. 

3 
 MEMBER MUNN: Same to you. 

4 
 MEMBER BEACH: Thanks, Jim. You, 

5 
 too. 

6 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: I guess some of 

7 
 you will be talking in a day or two with TBD 

8 
 6000, but the rest of us I guess will be 

9 
 talking to each other, seeing each other in 

10 
 January. So, again, have a good holidays and 

11 

12 MEMBER KOTELCHUCK: Same. 

13 
 CHAIRMAN MELIUS: Thank you. 

14 
 MR. KATZ: Have a great holidays, 

15 
 everyone. Take care. 

16 
 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 

17 
 was concluded at 12:24 p.m.) 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
 26 

1 
 

2 
 

3 
 

4 
 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com