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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL

NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR OCCUPATIONAL

SAFETY AND HEALTH 

+ + + + +

ADVISORY BOARD ON RADIATION AND

WORKER HEALTH 

+ + + + +

SUBCOMMITTEE ON DOSE RECONSTRUCTION REVIEWS

+ + + + +

MONDAY

MAY 10, 2010

+ + + + +

The Subcommittee convened via 

teleconference at 3:00 p.m., Mark Griffon, 

Chairman, presiding.

PRESENT:

MARK GRIFFON, Chairman

MICHAEL H. GIBSON, Member

WANDA I. MUNN, Member

JOHN W. POSTON, Member

ROBERT W. PRESLEY, Member
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ALSO PRESENT:

TED KATZ, Designated Federal Official

NANCY ADAMS, NIOSH Contractor

ISAF AL-NABULSI, DOE

DOUGLAS FARVER, SC&A

STU HINNEFELD, DCAS

EMILY HOWELL, HHS

JENNY LIN, HHS

BRANT ULSH, DCAS
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C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S

Welcome 3

Roll Call 3

Case Selection 5

Adjourn 60
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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

2 3:03 P.M.

3 MR. KATZ: Welcome, everybody to 

4 the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker 

5 Health. This is the Dose Reconstruction 

6 Subcommittee. And beginning with roll call, 

7 Board Members first.

8 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Mark Griffon, 

9 Chair of the Subcommittee.

10 MEMBER PRESLEY: Robert Presley, 

11 Alternate.

12 MR. KATZ: Welcome, Bob.

13 MEMBER MUNN: Hi, Bob, that's 

14 great. Wanda Munn, Member.

15 MEMBER GIBSON: Mike Gibson, 

16 Member.

17 MR. KATZ: Okay, then NIOSH ORAU 

18 Team?

19 MR. HINNEFELD: Stu Hinnefeld and 

20 Brant Ulsh from DCAS.

21 MR. KATZ: Okay and anyone from 

22 SC&A?
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1 MR. FARVER: Doug Farver, SC&A.

2 MR. KATZ: Doug, hey. Is someone 

3 else trying to say something? Okay, any 

4 members of the public on the line?

5 Other HHS or other government 

6 officials or contractors to the government?

7 MS. HOWELL: Emily Howell, HHS.

8 MS. LIN: Jenny Lin, HHS.

9 DR. AL-NABULSI: Isaf Al-Nabulsi, 

10 DOE.

11 MS. ADAMS: Nancy Adams, NIOSH 

12 contractor.

13 MR. KATZ: Welcome to all of you. 

14 That should be it. Okay, Mark?

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: All right. 

16 Yes, as Wanda mentioned earlier, we didn't 

17 really have -- I didn't put an agenda out. I 

18 thought at some point I had said this was a 

19 one issue meeting, but maybe not. The only

20 thing scheduled for this call is to do the 

21 case selection for the 13th set of cases. 

22 Everyone should have received a 
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1 couple of spreadsheets from NIOSH. Well, 

2 there's two versions of the one listing of 

3 what we're calling full internal and external 

4 dose reconstruction cases and that should have 

5 33 pages in it. 

6 I'm pretty sure this is right, one 

7 is sorted by PoC and the other one, I don't 

8 know how the other one is sorted, but --

9 MR. HINNEFELD: Just by selection 

10 number.

11 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: By selection, 

12 yes, that's what I thought. Okay. I actually 

13 worked from the one that was sorted by the PoC 

14 and then there's -- so that's the one listing 

15 with two different versions of a spreadsheet 

16 that was sent out. And the other listing is a 

17 random set of cases which would not only be 

18 full internal external but would be a random 

19 selection of some additional cases.

20 And what we've done in the past is 

21 to start from the best estimate cases and I 

22 think we would like to get, come up with 
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1 probably around 40 cases. That way if we 

2 lose some, it can be narrowed down. Is that 

3 correct, Stu, each set? I know if this 

4 matters really, but --

5 MR. HINNEFELD: It matters very 

6 much. We usually do this in a two-step 

7 process.

8 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

9 MR. HINNEFELD: Step one. But 

10 however many we select today, we will provide 

11 to ORAU for them to add those additional 

12 columns of information.

13 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Right.

14 MR. HINNEFELD: For the second 

15 step of the selection process. If you want to 

16 keep doing that process.

17 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, I do, yes. 

18 And the idea is to do that in Buffalo, if we 

19 have enough time.

20 MR. HINNEFELD: I don't think I 

21 can get that information --

22 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: That quickly --
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1 MR. HINNEFELD: For Buffalo, no. 

2 In fact, I would guess that it will be middle 

3 of June.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Maybe the next 

5 Board phone call then or whatever, the full 

6 Board.

7 MR. HINNEFELD: I would think it 

8 would be the middle of June at least before 

9 I'll be able to get it.

10 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay, okay. So 

11 this is the first step. The only thing I'm 

12 asking is for the 13th set, how many cases 

13 should we be shooting for SC&A tasking 

14 purposes? Maybe we want to end up with 20, 

15 like we usually do.

16 MEMBER MUNN: Well, maybe it would 

17 be a good idea for us to kind of run through 

18 them and see how many jump out on our first 

19 cut.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Well, yes. We 

21 want more than that in our first cut.

22 MEMBER MUNN: Oh, yes.
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1 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: But I think 

2 what we want to end up with if we want to 

3 stick with the normal -- I'm just asking from 

4 a tasking -- I don't know if there's any 

5 limitations in that way.

6 MR. KATZ: Doug?

7 MR. FARVER: Mark, this is Doug. 

8 I didn't receive copies of these and you may 

9 have sent them to John and John is traveling 

10 today.

11 MR. HINNEFELD: I'll send them.

12 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Stu sent them 

13 around actually.

14 MR. FARVER: I know John was 

15 looking for about 30 cases.

16 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay, 30,

17 MR. FARVER: So I imagine anywhere 

18 in that range, 20 to 30, whatever you can pick

19 out.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay.

21 MR. HINNEFELD: We'll want to go 

22 bigger than that.
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1 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Exactly, for 

2 our preliminary slice through here, we should 

3 look at 40 to 50 maybe.

4 MR. FARVER: Okay.

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: And then -- all 

6 right, so with that in mind, maybe I can --

7 MEMBER PRESLEY: Hey, Stu?

8 MR. HINNEFELD: Yes.

9 MEMBER PRESLEY: Send those to me 

10 here at my government address.

11 MR. HINNEFELD: That's your DOE 

12 address?

13 MEMBER PRESLEY: Yes. I thought I 

14 had them and I can't find them.

15 MR. HINNEFELD: Okay, I've got 

16 that one.

17 MR. KATZ: Let me remind everybody 

18 that this is transcribed and Eric who is our 

19 transcriptionist won't know who is speaking 

20 unless you identify yourself.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay, this is 

22 Mark Griffon again. The one thing I was going 
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1 to suggest and I agree with what Wanda said. 

2 We should just go through them and see how 

3 many jump out at us. The only thing that I 

4 was going to suggest is to start, if this 

5 makes sense to people, to start in the middle

6 of the PoC sorted matrix. So on page 19, I 

7 was looking at the ones between 40 and 50 to 

8 start with and sort of see how many we end up 

9 with there and then go back and work through 

10 the rest of them.

11 MEMBER MUNN: Well, that's the 

12 next big question, really. This is Wanda. 

13 Whether there are additional criteria that we 

14 need to have in mind as we do this or are we 

15 specifically going to be looking almost 

16 entirely at PoC?

17 We discussed this at our last 

18 meeting and to save me I can't remember what 

19 decision we reached.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, I think we 

21 ended up with basically saying that we were 

22 going to get the best information from the 
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1 best estimate cases which end up being around 

2 the 40 to 50 range. But also, the other 

3 criteria --

4 MEMBER MUNN: But not always, 

5 right, would you assume?

6 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Well, I mean, 

7 you know, think about what we get out of these 

8 reviews. When it's a 20 percent PoC, a lot of 

9 times they are under estimate cases and even 

10 these ones that -- I'm surprised the ones on 

11 this list that are like 1 and 2 percent PoC, 

12 I'm betting that they're partial best 

13 estimate. 

14 I may be wrong, Stu, on this, but 

15 I'm betting that they did one part best 

16 estimate and then they threw in as high as 

17 possible internal dose and it was an over 

18 estimating for one part of it and best 

19 estimate for one part of it. 

20 MR. HINNEFELD: Yes, some of them 

21 might be dose models. Some people might have 

22 full dosimetry records, but essentially non-
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1 radiation workers. So something that's done 

2 by a dose model it shows up and usually it's a 

3 full internal and external.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. This is 

5 Mark Griffon again. 

6 Wanda, the way I went through was 

7 look at PoC, but also look at sites. And then 

8 obviously other things play into it too, if 

9 there's a case that looked particularly 

10 interesting. This is the pre-screening step, 

11 too. So we can just pull them and get some 

12 more information about it. So I think that's 

13 -- everything is on the table now. 

14 I was just offering that. We 

15 might want to start with those ones in the 

16 middle. As I went through, I got maybe 20 

17 some just in the 40 to 50 range or I think it 

18 was 15 to 20 that looked reasonable in that 

19 range. So it was just offered as a possible 

20 place to start, you know.

21 MEMBER MUNN: As good as any, I 

22 guess.
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1 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. All 

2 right, let's try that. And then the other 

3 thing that if you've got your notes in front 

4 of you, I did notice when I looked at the 

5 whole list that there's some place that I had 

6 never seen before and those are obviously good 

7 choices for us because, you know, it's those 

8 many Site Profile Reviews that we can look at 

9 one case and it's probably the only time we'll 

10 look at that site through the --

11 MEMBER MUNN: That's interesting.

12 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. So 

13 there's a couple of -- a bunch that that 

14 actually --

15 MEMBER PRESLEY: Hey, Mark. This 

16 is Bob Presley. 

17 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

18 MEMBER PRESLEY: I thought that we 

19 talked about before, you know, on places like 

20 that right there where there was one, if it 

21 had been compensated, we weren't going to take 

22 the time to go back through that thing.
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1 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: That may be 

2 something to consider too, Bob. The only 

3 thing, if it's one case for one for the site, 

4 and it was compensated, then yes. But I think 

5 a lot of these smaller places end up being 

6 modeled in a reconstruction model so by 

7 reviewing a particular case you're actually 

8 reviewing the entire way they do it for all 

9 the cases. But if it's only -- if we find out 

10 it's only one, there's only one claim and it's 

11 one site and they've been compensated, you're 

12 right. I'm not sure it's worth our time. But 

13 okay, let's start with -- if it's okay, let's 

14 start with page 19 and just go through some of 

15 those and then we'll work our way through the 

16 rest of the spreadsheet after that.

17 MEMBER POSTON: Hey, Mark?

18 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

19 MEMBER POSTON: John Poston. I've 

20 been listening. I just got here. Sorry, I'm 

21 late.

22 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: That's okay. 
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1 I'm glad you could make it, John. 

2 You have the spreadsheets, right?

3 MEMBER POSTON: Yes.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay.

5 MEMBER MUNN: So we're going to 

6 start on page 19 of which of the three?

7 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Page 19 of the 

8 one sorted by PoC is the one I'm working from. 

9 The one, full internal/external sorted by 

10 PoC.

11 So if I go -- the first one I have 

12 in that regard is I'm looking at the last 

13 three numbers, case number 596. It's about 

14 two-thirds of the way down the page. Rocky 

15 Flats.

16 MEMBER MUNN: Hold on a minute. 

17 I'm still getting to the right page. What 

18 page did you say?

19 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Page 19.

20 MEMBER MUNN: Nineteen. Go ahead.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I'm looking at 

22 the one PoC is 40.125, pretty good precision 
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1 on that PoC too. It's for Rocky Flats, case 

2 number 596.

3 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Any objections 

5 to that? Again, this is our preliminary shot 

6 through so we can get 40 or 50. We just don't 

7 want to overburden NIOSH with too many.

8 MEMBER MUNN: 596, correct.

9 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I'm going to 

10 check that one off, if there's no objection. 

11 At any time, if I pass over one that you 

12 wanted, speak up. Make sure we identify 

13 ourselves though. This could be a little 

14 tricky.

15 I have 604 which is an X-10 case.

16 MEMBER MUNN: Do you want to give 

17 us a couple of minutes to scan this page 

18 ourselves? I really and truly have not 

19 scanned through these.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay, I 

21 apologize.

22 MEMBER MUNN: And your next one 
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1 was?

2 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: 604.

3 MEMBER MUNN: 604.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Is everybody 

5 okay with that one? All right.

6 My last one on this page is 728, 

7 the last one at the bottom. Ames Laboratory. 

8 That was for a double reason, 40 PoC at Ames, 

9 think -- we may have done or two of those 

10 cases, but certainly not many.

11 MEMBER MUNN: 728. 

12 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay, I'm going 

13 to page 20 now, unless I hear any other 

14 suggestions. And I have 446 right at the top, 

15 Savannah River, 34 years almost, of exposure. 

16 And let me know if you object to any of 

17 these, 364, General Steel. There were several 

18 General Steels in here throughout this 

19 spreadsheet. I'm assuming, Stu, correct me if 

20 I'm wrong, I'm assuming General Steel is a 

21 model, right? So if we look at one, we should 

22 really get a sense of any of the ones.
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1 MR. HINNEFELD: Yes, I believe 

2 that it is a dose model.

3 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: So there may be 

4 others that -- I'll put a check by that, but 

5 if we see another General Steel that we like 

6 better, we can cross this one off and do 

7 another one.

8 MEMBER MUNN: It's kind of 

9 interesting to have those two twins there 

10 together. Simonds Saw.

11 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. Simonds 

12 Saw I skipped.

13 MEMBER MUNN: That would be kind 

14 of interesting to see.

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. We can do 

16 that. You want the Simonds Saw one? I 

17 skipped that one because I thought we had done 

18 one before.

19 MEMBER MUNN: Let's do 405 and 

20 406. They'd be interesting to compare, I 

21 think.

22 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Wait, 405. 
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1 MR. HINNEFELD: Mark, she's 

2 reading the Excel line number.

3 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay.

4 MEMBER MUNN: I'm sorry. Yes. 

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: 364 and --

6 MEMBER MUNN: It's just an unusual 

7 thing to see, two similarities on the sheet. 

8 It must be similarity as a whole on the cases. 

9 This is interesting to see it.

10 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Right. All 

11 right, the next one I have was another 

12 Savannah River one, 169, PoC 41.66. 

13 MEMBER MUNN: I like that for some 

14 reason.

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: And then 545 

16 which is a W.R. Grace. So this was for two 

17 reasons. The high PoC, it's not many years of 

18 exposure, but I don't think we've done any 

19 W.R. Grace cases, I'm pretty sure of that.

20 MEMBER MUNN: I don't remember 

21 them.

22 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: So I think this 
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1 might be useful just from that standpoint. 

2 The next one I have is 610 which is a Nevada 

3 Test Site, almost 40 years of -- 38.8 years. 

4 Thyroid, which we don't see that often, so 

5 several reasons for that one.

6 And that was the last one I had on 

7 that page, if there any others on that page.

8 MEMBER MUNN: 694 has an 

9 interesting site that we haven't looked at 

10 before. 

11 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, and that 

12 comes up later too. I did pick up one of 

13 these DuPont Deepwater, but we can check this 

14 one off. I agree with that, Wanda. And I'm 

15 imagining again this is a dose model of some 

16 sort. I don't know that we can do multiple 

17 ones of this, but we can check that one for 

18 sure.

19 Okay, anybody else? Any others on 

20 that page?

21 I've got a whole lot on the next 

22 page. Let's see --
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1 MEMBER MUNN: Mine is not broken 

2 down by pages.

3 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Oh, yes. I'm 

4 on page 21, but I'm on case number 733 which 

5 is Nuclear Materials and Equipment, NUMEC, 

6 Parks Township. 

7 And then 460, again Savannah 

8 River. And another reason for the Savannah 

9 River, number one, there's a lot of claims at 

10 the site, but number two, we have had some 

11 experience with some close cases at Savannah 

12 River where we had some lengthy debates and 

13 they're usually Savannah River is not coworker 

14 modeled. It's their own data. So I think 

15 these are good ones to review for all those 

16 reasons.

17 MEMBER MUNN: Disease site is the 

18 primary. Interesting.

19 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, yes. The 

20 next one I had, I skipped Bethlehem, because I 

21 know we've done Bethlehem.

22 MEMBER MUNN: Many.
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1 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: So I took the 

2 next one though, Blockson and I may be wrong, 

3 but I don't know that we did a Blockson case. 

4 MEMBER MUNN: I think we've done 

5 one.

6 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I know we've 

7 discussed it a lot. Then 288, Hanford. It's 

8 lung and pancreas. 339 which is Portsmouth.

9 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, any reason?

10 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: The main reason 

11 on this one was the high number of years 

12 worked as well as the high PoC. It's probably 

13 -- it looks like a multiple skin cancer kind 

14 of thing.

15 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, it does.

16 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I'm not too --

17 I can drop that one. As a matter of fact, the 

18 more I look at it, it's not that -- I'll drop 

19 that one.

20 MEMBER MUNN: Okay.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Next one I have 

22 was 683, but we have had several Savannah 
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1 Rivers, so I'm willing to drop that one off 

2 the list too actually.

3 MEMBER MUNN: Yes. 

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Although like I

5 said these are unusually individual data which 

6 makes them a little more unique, but I'll drop 

7 that one.

8 681 is the next one I had. And I 

9 don't think we've done ElectroMet at all.

10 MEMBER MUNN: No, we just talked 

11 about that.

12 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Right, right. 

13 So we'll check that one?

14 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Now here's the 

16 General Steel with a higher PoC, but I think 

17 one General Steel is enough. If I'm looking 

18 at this correctly, I'm pretty sure it's a 

19 single model approach.

20 MEMBER MUNN: What was that number 

21 again?

22 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Well, that was 
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1 472, but I'm going to skip that one. I was 

2 just pointing out that it's another General 

3 Steel case.

4 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: The next one 

6 I've selected was 661, Rocky Flats. Kind of 

7 unique here because it's other respiratory and 

8 a lot of years worked there. It's not lung, 

9 but it's -- I thought it was a fairly easy 

10 case.

11 MR. KATZ: Hey, Mark?

12 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

13 MR. KATZ: Just to remind you, I 

14 don't know, but maybe Stu needs to feed into 

15 this question, but what do you think about GSI 

16 being a model? It is a TBD-6000 site. There 

17 has been a lot of complexity to that site in 

18 the discussion.

19 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: That is true, 

20 yes.

21 MR. KATZ: I wanted to mention

22 that and also mention that there have been, I 
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1 believe, three or four dose construction 

2 reviews for that site so far, but prior to 

3 this.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. I think 

5 we selected it before. Okay. The next one, 

6 since I did drop that last Portsmouth one, I 

7 think this is a much more interesting 

8 Portsmouth one. Forty-one years. It's number 

9 484, I'm sorry. 484, 44.9 PoC and 41 years of 

10 experience.

11 MEMBER MUNN: That's a great one.

12 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I think that's 

13 a much better Portsmouth case. 

14 And then 719 is a Hanford leukemia 

15 -- excluding CLL, yes, leukemia.

16 336, well, this is a skin cancer, 

17 a lot of years, at K-25. I'm not sure.

18 MEMBER MUNN: Which number?

19 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: 336.

20 MEMBER MUNN: 336.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: It's Oak Ridge 

22 Gaseous Diffusion Plant K-25, 43.635 PoC. 
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1 It's probably a multiple skin --

2 MEMBER MUNN: It's another one of 

3 those multiple skin things.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I'm willing to 

5 drop that one.

6 MEMBER MUNN: Yes. We see a lot 

7 of those in the ordinary course of events.

8 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: All right, the 

9 last one I have on the page is 570. And this 

10 does have some skin, but it's also got urinary 

11 organs excluding bladder, kind of interesting. 

12 And it's X-10 and Y-12. All right.

13 I'm moving on to the next page, 

14 well, if you have pages demarcated. This is 

15 page 22. I've got 754 which is 46.99 PoC. 

16 Thyroid from Savannah River Site.

17 MEMBER MUNN: Thyroid.

18 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: We've had quite 

19 a few lung cases, I believe.

20 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: And these are 

22 also getting above 45 percent PoC, too. So 
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1 we're right -- these are very close to the --

2 the next one I have is 629.

3 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Which is 

5 Blockson, but it also had Argonne East, so 

6 it's kind of -- a couple of reasons for that 

7 one.

8 And then 744, Savannah River lung. 

9 We have had several of those, but this is a 

10 very close borderline. We've also had a few 

11 that were close to the 50 percentile. That 

12 was the interest there. 744.

13 And 358, the very next one, Los 

14 Alamos.

15 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

16 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Not a very long 

17 job period, but it gets into a decade that we 

18 often don't see and then you have 80 Los 

19 Alamos. So a little different.

20 Then I had 666. That's a Fernald. 

21 It is a skin cancer. Again, it's 43 years of 

22 experience. It could be a multiple skin, but 
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1 where it's so close that you just -- you know. 

2 Looks like an interesting case.

3 Next, the very next one too, 517, 

4 Sandia National Laboratory. I don't think 

5 we've had very many cases from Sandia and it's 

6 really close to the 50 percentile. 

7 And then I have the next one 

8 checked of, 648, which is General Steel again. 

9 I would actually say drop my other General 

10 Steel and put this one in. It's really close 

11 to the cut off end.

12 MEMBER MUNN: That might not hurt 

13 to leave the other one in.

14 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Especially for 

15 the preliminary round, maybe leave both. 

16 Alright, I'm going on to the next page. 

17 Actually, that's all I had and that was only 

18 looking between 40 and 50. Now let me just 

19 get a count, unless somebody is keeping track.

20 MEMBER MUNN: I have 25.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I have 26, so -

22 -
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1 MEMBER MUNN: I missed one.

2 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: We're close in 

3 there somewhere. I think I've got 26. So we 

4 should probably at least get 40, if we're 

5 going to try to come out with 30 because we 

6 could lose cases for a number of reasons. 

7 They could be under review or they could --

8 MEMBER MUNN: Forty is a lot safer 

9 number.

10 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Right, right. 

11 So going back to the beginning of the 

12 spreadsheet, I actually, and I can be talked 

13 out of this, but I actually did not go all the 

14 way back to the beginning. I started at about 

15 page eight, fairly random cutoff, but all 

16 these PoCs, most of them are one through five, 

17 I thought a PoC of one through five, how much 

18 are we going to get out of those reviews, 

19 unless it's a unique site. And I must admit 

20 there may be some on there that we would want 

21 to consider for that reason. 

22 MEMBER MUNN: Even in that case, 
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1 the circumstances would be -- have to be 

2 extraordinary for a dose reconstructor to have 

3 gone higher.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Right, and I 

5 think usually the policy, if they don't --

6 these say full internal and external, but my 

7 guess is a lot of them are going to have maybe 

8 full external because they had their badge 

9 data, but then they used an overly generous 

10 internal dose.

11 MEMBER MUNN: In order to even get 

12 what they had.

13 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Right, even to 

14 get up to the very low PoCs. I would say if 

15 it's okay, if you have any cases on the first 

16 -- prior to this, certainly put them on the 

17 table, but I was starting at page eight, 

18 number 680 which was an 8.2 PoC. And the only 

19 reason I picked that was for the site and the 

20 same reason for the next one, Heppenstall. I 

21 don't think we've had anything from there.

22 MEMBER MUNN: I haven't heard 
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1 anything from there either.

2 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Very low PoC, 

3 but I thought it was worth at least a 

4 consideration to review.

5 MEMBER PRESLEY: Hey, Mark?

6 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

7 MEMBER PRESLEY: This is Bob. One 

8 of the things that I've been looking at on 

9 here, nothing I've got jives with what you've 

10 got, so I've been going through by location 

11 and looking. When you talk about these places 

12 where we have this reduction pilot plant, 

13 they're all very, very low PoC. But there's a 

14 couple of them have got -- there's quite a few 

15 of them, a couple of them have a lot of years.

16 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Right.

17 MEMBER PRESLEY: With lung and 

18 urinary and bladder problems.

19 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I did pick one 

20 from there. It's coming up. I know I picked 

21 one from there, Bob.

22 MEMBER PRESLEY: That's one of the 
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1 places I was looking at.

2 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, I'm with 

3 you. I'm with you. I definitely selected one 

4 from there. As we're going through, if you 

5 don't like the one I took, if you have another 

6 one in mind.

7 MEMBER PRESLEY: I think we just 

8 ought to check that out.

9 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. All 

10 right. So I'm going to check for now anyway, 

11 680 and 438, on that page eight.

12 MEMBER MUNN: I see 680 also. 

13 Although that one -- well. We're going to be 

14 -- that site is going to be covered pretty 

15 well, hopefully.

16 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: That's the 

17 other questions, yes. Some of these could 

18 fall under SEC -- yes.

19 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I'll put a 

21 question mark next to that. If we get way 

22 over the 40 mark, then we can go back and tone 
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1 this down a little bit.

2 MEMBER MUNN: If I were doing it 

3 all by myself, I probably wouldn't do 680.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

5 MEMBER MUNN: Just because I know 

6 that site is going to be well covered.

7 MR. HINNEFELD: This is Stu 

8 Hinnefeld. General Atomics, I don't know that 

9 there's been a lot of work there. General 

10 Atomics, isn't that the one down in La Jolla?

11 MEMBER MUNN: I think it's going 

12 to end up being -- it could be.

13 MR. HINNEFELD: The site in Santa 

14 Susana is Atomics International.

15 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

16 MR. HINNEFELD: And I think 

17 General Atomics is a site down by La Jolla.

18 MEMBER MUNN: It is the site down 

19 by La Jolla. I'm quite sure you're right 

20 about that. I think --

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Did one of 

22 those get an 83.14?
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1 MR. HINNEFELD: That was Santa 

2 Susana. That's all the sites associated with 

3 Santa Susana, Downey, De Soto, Canoga.

4 MEMBER MUNN: Okay. I withdraw my 

5 concern. 

6 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: The next one I 

7 have is on the next page, PoC of 10.69. See 

8 if you can find it, Wanda, 541.

9 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

10 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: That's the 

11 Aluminum Company of America, Alcoa.

12 MEMBER MUNN: That makes sense.

13 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Just that we 

14 haven't looked at that site at all before. 

15 And that probably will be the last time.

16 The next one I have was 742, 

17 solely based on the site again, Westinghouse 

18 Nuclear Fuels Division.

19 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I don't think 

21 we've done any cases there.

22 MEMBER MUNN: I don't think we 
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1 have done any.

2 MR. HINNEFELD: Mark, this is Stu. 

3 To facilitate finding that, what's the PoC on 

4 that one?

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: 11.118.

6 MR. HINNEFELD: I've got it. 

7 Thanks.

8 MEMBER MUNN: 204.

9 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: This is Mark 

10 again. Sorry, I'm not saying my name each 

11 time. The next one I have is PoC of 11.52 and 

12 it's for Hooker Electrochemical and now I 

13 would ask Doug if we've done any cases from 

14 this site because if we have, I would withdraw 

15 this case?

16 MEMBER MUNN: I'm pretty sure we 

17 have.

18 MR. FARVER: You've done at least 

19 one Hooker Electrochemical.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Well, for that 

21 reason this doesn't look that interesting if 

22 we've done one case. I'll drop that one.
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1 And the next one I have is exactly 

2 what Bob was pointing out, a PoC of 11.82, 

3 Reduction Pilot Plant.

4 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Case 117.

6 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

7 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: So I am up to 

8 30 total so far. Moving on to the next page, 

9 the next one I have was PoC of 12.46, case 

10 number 711, the S-50 Oak Ridge Thermal 

11 Diffusion. I don't think we've done the S-50 

12 facility. It's 3.7 years, but that might be 

13 the whole extent of that operation.

14 MEMBER MUNN: I'm not familiar 

15 with the site. 

16 MEMBER PRESLEY: This is Bob 

17 Presley. I don't think it was that long.

18 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I don't think 

19 it was that long either. So yes, 3.7 years is 

20 pushing it, right, Bob?

21 MEMBER PRESLEY: Yes.

22 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: So this -- I 
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1 know it's something we haven't looked at a 

2 lot. It is covered with -- it's a skin cancer 

3 again, but it is kind of a unique facility to 

4 look at, a unique part of the K-25 complex.

5 MEMBER MUNN: Well, if we look at 

6 it as being something different than Oak 

7 Ridge, all right.

8 MR. FARVER: Mark, this is Doug.

9 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

10 MR. FARVER: Going back one about 

11 the reduction pilot plant, there's also a case 

12 to contrast the one you picked, it up just 

13 over 50 percent and I don't know if you'd like 

14 to do both of those to like contrast it.

15 I'm trying to find the case 

16 number.

17 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Alright, if you 

18 find that. We might want to pick it to look 

19 in our first round here. And then maybe we 

20 can find out more when NIOSH pulls all the 

21 information because if they're using the same 

22 exactly model, I'm not sure how much, what we 
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1 would gain from one versus the other. But one 

2 is real low and one is over 50, so --

3 MR. FARVER: It's 208.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Do you have the 

5 50 point what, we're all sorting by PoC right 

6 now?

7 MR. FARVER: 50.43.

8 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Alright, I'm 

9 willing to check that. I'm not sure we want 

10 to end up with both cases, but --

11 MR. FARVER: I thought it was 

12 interesting; they're both about 30 some years.

13 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

14 MR. FARVER: And vastly differed.

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: This is a skin. 

16 It may be multiple skin cancer too.

17 MR. FARVER: I have no idea.

18 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: But anyway, 

19 right.

20 MR. FARVER: Since we haven't done 

21 that site at all.

22 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay. I'll put 
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1 that on the list for now.

2 MEMBER MUNN: So we're comparing 

3 208 with which one?

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: With the last 

5 one we have which is 11.82 PoC. They're just 

6 the same plant. They both had 30 some years' 

7 experience, but there are different types of 

8 cancer, both at that reduction pilot plan.

9 MEMBER PRESLEY: Hey, Mark?

10 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, I'm not 

11 sure. We may not including the -- keeping 

12 that one, but -- or keeping both of those, but 

13 --

14 MEMBER PRESLEY: This is Bob. 

15 There's one 12.7. There's been quite a few of 

16 these to pop up, this Birdsboro Steel & 

17 Foundry?

18 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, that was 

19 my next one, actually.

20 MEMBER PRESLEY: Okay.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Do you agree 

22 with that?
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1 MEMBER PRESLEY: Yes, I don't 

2 think we've done any of those at all.

3 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I don't think 

4 so either. And it may be a TBD-6000 kind of 

5 thing, but it's worth --

6 MEMBER PRESLEY: Looking into.

7 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, yes. I 

8 agree with that, 138. And the next one I have 

9 was the DuPont Deepwater Works, but didn't we 

10 just select one of those?

11 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, we chose one of 

12 the higher PoCs.

13 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I think this 

14 one can be dropped. The next one I have was 

15 not so interesting. I'll drop that. It was 

16 the very next one, 14.02, but the only 

17 interest was because it was at all three, but 

18 there's a lot of people, a lot of claims of 

19 workers that worked at all three of those 

20 sites.

21 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

22 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I'll drop that 
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1 one. That brings me up to 33, I believe. And 

2 I'm going on to the next one I have -- did you 

3 have one? I'm sorry?

4 MEMBER MUNN: I'm looking at 752.

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: 52.

6 MEMBER MUNN: It's another one of 

7 those, gosh, we've never done anything like 

8 that?

9 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: What PoC is it?

10 MEMBER MUNN: 16.16.

11 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Oh yes, I 

12 missed that one. Uranium mill. Oh, I know 

13 why I sort of went over them because of the 

14 limited -- it's not even a year of experience 

15 there.

16 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

17 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: So I thought we 

18 might wait on that one.

19 MEMBER MUNN: Okay. 

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: The next one I 

21 have is -- the PoC is 22.28. I think I get 

22 confused because Bridgeport Brass, they have 
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1 an Adrian plant and they have the other plant 

2 and I forget -- then it includes this 

3 extrusion plant which I think is a different 

4 place.

5 MEMBER MUNN: I don't know.

6 MR. HINNEFELD: This is Stu. 

7 MEMBER MUNN: We've done several 

8 Bridgeport Brass.

9 MR. HINNEFELD: Bridgeport Brass, 

10 there's a Bridgeport and Adrian and then 

11 there's a Bridgeport Brass, Havens Lab.

12 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Right.

13 MR. HINNEFELD: And the extrusion 

14 plant is also a plant called Reactive Metals, 

15 RMI.

16 MEMBER PRESLEY: That's what I was 

17 going to say --

18 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: That's a 

19 separate facility, is that right?

20 MEMBER PRESLEY: That's a total 

21 separate facility because that's where I used 

22 to go up and do a lot of work.
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1 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: So that's why I 

2 was going to select that one because we 

3 haven't looked at that at all as far as I 

4 remember.

5 MEMBER PRESLEY: Yes.

6 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay.

7 MEMBER PRESLEY: That's a total 

8 different outfit up there.

9 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Alright, that 

10 brings my rough count up to 34. And --

11 MR. KATZ: Mark, what's the number 

12 of the Bridgeport Brass case? This is Ted.

13 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I'm sorry --

14 MEMBER MUNN: 525.

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, case 525, 

16 PoC 22.28.

17 The next one I have goes all the 

18 way up to -- PoC, 27.52, a different company. 

19 That's the main reason on this one.

20 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Any others in 

22 between, let me know. Here is one I picked 
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1 for uranium mill in Monticello. It has four 

2 years of experience, breast cancer, 28.65. I 

3 thought that was a little, a little more work 

4 history there.

5 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

6 MR. HINNEFELD: This is Stu. The 

7 last one you selected as for American Bearing 

8 Corp., right?

9 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

10 MR. HINNEFELD: Selection 137?

11 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

12 MEMBER PRESLEY: Hey, Mark? This 

13 is Bob. PoC 26.2 is from Ames Laboratories, 

14 Spencer Chemical, Jayhawk Works, Iowa National 

15 Lab. Is that part of INL or is that a 

16 separate facility?

17 MR. HINNEFELD: This is Stu. Iowa 

18 National Lab is INL. Ames Laboratories is at 

19 University of Iowa.

20 MEMBER PRESLEY: Okay.

21 MR. HINNEFELD: And Spencer 

22 Chemical is an AWE; it is -- I want to say 
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1 it's in Kansas, but I won't swear that that's 

2 true.

3 MEMBER PRESLEY: I don't think we 

4 have done any --

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, we haven't 

6 done Spencer Chemical.

7 MEMBER PRESLEY: That's a new 

8 outfit.

9 MEMBER MUNN: But then this is 

10 just another one of those cases where somebody 

11 has worked many places. I don't know how much 

12 it's going to tell us our Spencer Chemical or 

13 Jayhawk.

14 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: True. We'd 

15 have to look into Spencer Chemical by looking 

16 at this person, I guess, is what Bob's point 

17 is.

18 MR. HINNEFELD: Yes.

19 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: It may be that 

20 he just went there for a month or something, 

21 you know. We don't know.

22 MEMBER MUNN: Yes. 
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1 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I mean I'll put 

2 it on this preliminary cut through.

3 MEMBER PRESLEY: Yes.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: And then, Stu, 

5 I don't know if you got that last one, 753, 

6 28.65 PoC, the uranium mill one.

7 MR. HINNEFELD: Yes, I do have 

8 that.

9 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay. The next 

10 one I have was the International Minerals and 

11 Chemical Corp, PoC 28.74. Again, the main 

12 reason was the facility. The next one I have 

13 was 564, its PoC is 30.42. And this was 

14 because of -- it's got the Oak Ridge Paducah 

15 stuff, but also SAM Laboratories.

16 MEMBER PRESLEY: Yes, I've not got 

17 any problem with that. Let me ask you a 

18 question. How many have we done on Iowa 

19 Ordnance?

20 MEMBER MUNN: Couple.

21 MEMBER PRESLEY: Have we? Okay.

22 MEMBER MUNN: Early on as I 
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1 recall.

2 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, yes. I 

3 think we did do a couple of that, yes.

4 Alright, and the next one I have 

5 is -- well, this gets a little out of the 

6 unique site stuff now because we're getting a 

7 little higher with the PoC, 32.14 PoC. It's 

8 Los Alamos. And a lot of years of experience 

9 starting in the '50s. I thought that was 

10 worth looking at anyway.

11 Next one I have was two down from 

12 that, Savannah River, nervous system. A 

13 little different organ of interest. Thirty14 eight years work there. Case 572.

15 The next one I have was 642, which 

16 is PoC 33.65, esophagus at Mound, 30 years of 

17 experience, 1960. Unique for the work history 

18 anyway.

19 My rough count, I may be off by a 

20 few right now, I think I'm up to 38 on my 

21 cases.

22 MEMBER MUNN: We're getting pretty 
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1 close.

2 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

3 MEMBER PRESLEY: Mark, let me ask 

4 you something?

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Go ahead.

6 MEMBER PRESLEY: How many of the 

7 Mallinckrodt at Destrehan Street in Weldon 

8 Springs have we done? I know we've done a 

9 few, but it looks like that's going to crop 

10 back up on our chart here.

11 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I don't 

12 remember actually doing many.

13 MEMBER PRESLEY: Three's a 38.363 

14 which is bladder, ten years, early on. And he 

15 said he worked both those places; bladder and 

16 genitalia.

17 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: 38.363.

18 MEMBER PRESLEY: Yes.

19 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay. I think 

20 even more interesting is, I don't think we've 

21 done any at the Destrehan Street Plant. So 

22 yes, we'll check that off. That's 38.363, 
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1 case number 396.

2 MEMBER MUNN: Even though it's 

3 skin, number 374.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: What's the PoC, 

5 Wanda?

6 MEMBER MUNN: 3694.

7 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay.

8 MEMBER PRESLEY: Pacific Proving 

9 Grounds?

10 MEMBER MUNN: Yes.

11 MEMBER PRESLEY: We haven't done 

12 anything on that, have we?

13 MEMBER MUNN: Short period, but I 

14 don't think we've looked at it.

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, very short 

16 period, but I don't think we looked at it. 

17 Okay, let's add that one.

18 And the last one I have was PoC 

19 39.379 which was the Savannah River. It's a 

20 lung and all male genitalia, 33 years. That 

21 was all I had. That actually brings us right 

22 up to 40.
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1 MEMBER PRESLEY: I got one more.

2 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay.

3 MEMBER PRESLEY: PoC of 41.92, 

4 W.R. Grace.

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I didn't get 

6 that one.

7 MEMBER MUNN: 41.92.

8 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I got that one 

9 already.

10 MEMBER PRESLEY: We got it on 

11 there? All right.

12 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I did not even 

13 look at the random list. If you want to take 

14 a minute and look at the random list.

15 The other thing -- we can do this 

16 when we get all these -- when NIOSH gives us 

17 the additional information on this. The one 

18 thing I'm going to pay attention to for our 

19 final selection is the date that they were 

20 done because I know that that's one criteria. 

21 Wanda, you talked about some of the material.

22 Now if it's a unique site, it may 
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1 not matter that much, a site that we've never 

2 looked at before, but if it's things like 

3 Savannah River, we want to get more current 

4 cases because we want to see if -- we don't 

5 want to review the same findings again, 

6 basically.

7 MEMBER MUNN: No.

8 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: We want to get 

9 the more current dose rate constructions where 

10 we can, but that's something I will pay 

11 attention a little more in the next -- as we 

12 look through the next round.

13 MEMBER MUNN: That's wise.

14 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Does anyone 

15 have any more on this list?

16 MEMBER PRESLEY: I'm looking at 

17 one at the random list. This is Bob. And 

18 it's 016 and it's the Clarksville facility. 

19 It's got quite a few years.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Four and a half 

21 years. We can certainly --

22 MEMBER PRESLEY: I don't know if 
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1 that place was in existence or not, but maybe 

2 it was.

3 MEMBER MUNN: That's new.

4 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Let's add that 

5 on to the list. So that's -- Stu, you 

6 tracking these too. I'll send you my list.

7 MR. HINNEFELD: Okay, just send me 

8 your list today or early tomorrow.

9 MEMBER PRESLEY: That's all I've 

10 got.

11 MR. HINNEFELD: Sent it to Brant, 

12 too, if you will, please.

13 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I will, I will.

14 MR. HINNEFELD: Okay.

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: And I'm just 

16 looking through the random list really quick 

17 one more time, just to take a couple of 

18 minutes if anybody else has any others. 

19 Sometimes these overlap too, as we know.

20 I think that Alcoa lung case is 

21 the same one we just picked.

22 MEMBER MUNN: Yes, probably, yes.
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1 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: There is a 

2 Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. I'm on 

3 the last page which I'm pretty sure we never 

4 looked at that.

5 MEMBER PRESLEY: Probably haven't. 

6 We did a lot of research over there.

7 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. I think I 

8 want to add that one on there if that's okay.

9 MEMBER MUNN: 036, right?

10 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, case 

11 number 036, yes, the last page. And that's 

12 all I have.

13 MEMBER PRESLEY: This is Bob. I 

14 didn't see anything else.

15 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay. John, 

16 any others that you had?

17 MR. POSTON: I'm fine.

18 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Okay. What I 

19 can do also is I'll send out all the -- to Stu 

20 and Brant, but also to everyone on the 

21 Committee just to make sure I didn't, you 

22 know, mess up on my notes here, but I'll send 
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1 out and I'll put the three digits to the left, 

2 three digits of the case number so if you look 

3 through there and see something that -- or 

4 something missing, just ship me an email and 

5 this is our preliminary cut, so it doesn't 

6 really matter if we add one or two more.

7 But I think we're like 42, Stu, so 

8 that should be a reasonable number for you 

9 guys to manage and we can still hopefully get 

10 around 30 cases for SC&A. I think we're all 

11 set.

12 MEMBER MUNN: Great. If you'll do 

13 all the work, that's super.

14 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, well, this 

15 is not that much work. So I can handle this.

16 MEMBER MUNN: You and Stu do all 

17 the work.

18 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes. NIOSH can 

19 do all the work they are going to pull all the 

20 cases, that's the hard part. Okay, that's it. 

21 That's one of our shortest Dose 

22 Reconstruction Subcommittee meetings ever.
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1 MR. KATZ: Mark, can you hear me?

2 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes.

3 MR. KATZ: This is Ted. I just 

4 want to be clear about the path going forward. 

5 Did I understand correctly what you said in 

6 the beginning, or Stu, that these cases would 

7 not be ready for the May Board Meeting for 

8 Board selection but a teleconference following 

9 that meeting?

10 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, I was 

11 being overly ambitious and we scheduled this 

12 too close to the full Board meeting for that 

13 to be a reality, because NIOSH has to open up 

14 each one of these cases to find out that 

15 additional information that we want and to 

16 open and go through each case in the short 

17 amount of time is not realistic.

18 So yeah, we'll have to wait until 

19 our next phone Board meeting to do the final 

20 selection.

21 MR. KATZ: Okay, I just wanted to 

22 be clear because we had it tentatively on the 
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1 agenda for the working time at the Board 

2 meeting, so --

3 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: I think we'll 

4 stick with our process though. That was my 

5 hope to try to get that in, but -- yes.

6 MR. HINNEFELD: This is Stu. What 

7 will happen the next step is that either Brant 

8 or I will send to all the Subcommittee Members 

9 and to Doug the cases that were selected 

10 today, along with another five or six columns 

11 of additional information, once we've opened 

12 up the claims and populated those fields.

13 So those will be available to the 

14 Subcommittee.

15 Or if it's preferred, I can send 

16 it to the entire Board, however.

17 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Yes, I think we 

18 should probably do it to the entire Board at

19 this point.

20 MR. HINNEFELD: Okay.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: You can say 

22 these are the cases that the Subcommittee 
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1 preselected.

2 MR. HINNEFELD: Preliminarily --

3 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: -- additional 

4 information on those cases.

5 MR. HINNEFELD: Okay. And I'll

6 sort of -- I can run the discussion on that 

7 and explain what we did in the first round, 

8 but then I don't think we need that middle 

9 step of having us come back together again 

10 with the additional information and then 

11 bringing it back to the Board. Let's just go 

12 right to the full Board at this point on a 

13 phone meeting.

14 MEMBER PRESLEY: Well, either that 

15 or Stu, did you say there's no way in the 

16 world that you can get anything ready like 

17 that?

18 MR. HINNEFELD: For next week, not 

19 a chance, Bob.

20 MEMBER PRESLEY: All right.

21 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Just the way 

22 the schedule worked out, we couldn't get a 
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1 meeting set before this because of all the 

2 other meetings. So, yes.

3 MEMBER MUNN: There's too much 

4 going on.

5 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: We'll proceed 

6 as fast as we can.

7 MR. HINNEFELD: And everybody, I 

8 would like everybody to recognize that the 

9 people who are going to have to open these 

10 cases and look at them and pick these -- find 

11 that additional piece of information have to 

12 be relatively experienced dose reconstructors 

13 and we're now in our last three weeks of 

14 trying to meet our June 1st deadline for the 

15 old claims. So we're going to be putting 

16 experienced dose reconstructors on this, 

17 unless they're conflicted on all the remaining 

18 June 1st claims.

19 MEMBER PRESLEY: No problem.

20 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Alright, that's 

21 our path forward and we'll bring the full list 

22 to the next phone meeting of the Board and go 
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1 from there.

2 Thank you all. I think we're all 

3 set here.

4 MEMBER PRESLEY: Alright, we'll 

5 see you all.

6 CHAIRMAN GRIFFON: Thanks very 

7 much and meeting adjourned.

8 (Whereupon, the above-entitled 

9 matter went off the record at 4:01 p.m.)

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1