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PUB DATE 

NOTE 

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EDRS PRICE 

DESCRIPTORS 

IDENTIFIERS 

ABSTRACT 

DC>'-"11ElfT RESUME 

EA 023 164 

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. Hearing on H.R. 

3757 before the Subcommittee on Crime of the 

committee on the Judiciary. House of Representatives, 

one Hundred First congress, Second session. 

Congress of the U.S., Washington, o.c. House 

committee on the Judiciary. 

6 Sep 90 

93p.; serial No. 144. Some print may not reproduce 

adequately in paper copy. 

Legal/Le9islat1ve/R&gulatory Materials (090) -­

Guides - Non-Classroom Use (055) 

KF01/PC04 Plus Postage. 

Elementary Secondary Education, •Federal Legislation; 

Hearings, •School Security; ftViolence 

Congress 101st; •Firearms, Proposed Legislation 

This document presents federal legislation (H.R. 

3757) outlawing possession and use of firearms on school premises. 

Testimony for the "Gi. ,· -free School Zones Act of 1990" is offered in 

the form of discussion and prepared statements by panel members 

Edward P. Kovacic, Chief of Police, Cleveland, Ohio; Barbara Lautman, 

Director of the center to Prevent Handgun Violence (Washington, 

D.C.); Joel Packer, Legislative Specialist with the National

Education Association and National PTA; and Mark D. Widome, Associate

Professor of Pediatrics at Pennsylvania State University College of

Medicine. Based on the panel's evidence concerning gun violence on

school campuses across the u.s. and the traumatic effects on

schoolchildren� discussion was weighted over-whelmingly in favor of

the proposed legislation, with few suggested modifications.

Appendices contain a statement from the National PTA, a "Time"

magazine article entitled "Shootouts in the Schools," a statement

from the dational Rifle Associatior, Institute for Legislative Action,

and the center to Prevent Handgun Violence's 1990 report on gun

violence in American schools. (MLH)

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Reproductions supplied by EDRS are the best that can� maae

from tne original document. 

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EXHIBIT C

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GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT OF 1990 

HEARING 

BICPOU THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME 

OF THE 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FIRST CONGRESS 

SECOND SES.SION 

ON 

H.R. 3757 

GUN-FREE SCHOOL WNES ACT OF 1990 

SEPI'EMBER 6, 1990 

Serial No. 144 

OfflCe ol 

u.a. 

EducatloMI 

OIPAlffll.NT 

A--.,ct, 

OF IDUCATION

Ind l�nt 

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OI-.AL RESOURCES INFORMATION 

CENTER CEAIC) 

docul'leflt hal tieen ret)foduced H 

,ec .. .,.., f,om tl,e per■on or o,gan111t1on 

Ol''9'Nt1nc, ll 

□ t.t1nor ch•nee• have been made to improve

teorochlctlOn quat,ty 

• POintl of v ... or Oplfll()nl llltecl ,n 0111 docuBEST COPY AVAUlll �. ::.::::-::" -·· -···

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 

U .8. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

35-526 t:,; WASHINGTON : 1991 

for sail' >,y the Superintendent of Documents. Congreuional Sain Office 

US. Government PrintinR Office. W11Skinl(ton. DC io40:l 

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COMMI'ITEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

JACK BROOKS. Texas, Chairman 

ROBERT W. KASTENMEIER. Wisconsin 

DON EDWARDS. California 

JOHN CONYERS. Ja .• Michigan 

ROMANO L. MAZZOLI. Kentucky 

WILLIAM J. HUGHES. New Jersey 

MIKE SYNAR. Oklahoma 

PA TRICIA SCHROEDER, Colorado 

DAN GLICKMAN, Kansu 

BARNEY FRANK, Muuchusetta 

GEO. W. CROCKET!'. Ja .• Michigan 

CHAR� E. SCHUMER. New York 

BRUCE A. MORRISON, Connecticut 

EDWARD F. FEIGHAN, Ohio 

LA WREN CE J. SM1Tll, Florida 

HOWARD L. BERMAN. California 

RICK BOUCHER, Virginia 

HARLEY 0. STAGGERS. Ja .. West Virginia 

JOHN BRYANT. Texu 

MEL LEVINE. California 

GEORGE E. SANGMEISTER. Illinois 

CRAIG A. WASHINGTON. Texas 

HAMILTON FISH. JR., New York 

CARLOS J. MOORHEAD. California 

HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois 

F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER. Ja.,

Wilconsin

BILL Md,"'OLLUM. Florida 

GF.ORGE W. GEKAS, Pennsylvania 

WIWAM 

MICHAEL D11:WINE, Ohio 

E. DANNEMEYER. California 

HOW ARD COBLE, Nort� Carolina 

D. FRENr.H SLAUGHTER. JR .• Virginia

LAMA;, S. SMITH. TeltAl'

CHUCK DOUGLAS. New Hampehire

CRAIG T. JAMES. Florida

TOM CAMPBELL. California

WIWAM M. JONIS. Ge�ro/ Counsel 

RoauT H. BRINK, Deput_y �r.eral Counsel 

ALAN F. Corn:v. JR .• Mi.norit_v Chi.ef Counsel 

SU"COMMITl'EE ON CRIME 

WILLIAM J. HUGHES. New Jersey, Chairr:,an 

ROMANO L. MAZZ0LI. Kentuck� BILL McCOLLUM, Floria 

EDWARD F. FEIGHAN. Ohio GEORGE W. GEKAS. Pennsylvania 

LAWRENCE J. ciMITH. Florida MICHAEL DEWINE. Ohio 

RICK BOUCHER. Virginia CHUCK DOUGLAS. New Hampshire 

JOHN CONYERS. JR., Michigan 

HAYDEN W GREGORY, Chief Counsel 

DEBRA N. DIENER, Assi.stant Counsel 

LINDA C. HALL. Editor 

MARK BRINTON, Minorit_v Counsel 

I 111 

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CONTENTS 

HEARING DATE 

Page

September 6. 1990 ............................................................................................................ 1 

TEXT OF BILL 

H.R. 3757............................................................................................................................ 3 

OPENING STATEMENT 

Hughes. Hon. William J .. a Representat

i

ve in Congl'ess from the State of New 

Jersey. and chairman, Su'-committee on Crime .................................... ............... 1

WITNESSES 

Cook, Richard, Chief, Firearms Division, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and

Firearms, U.S. Department of the Treasury, accompanied by Bradley A.

Buckles, Deputy Chief Counsel ................................................................................. .

Kovacic, Edward P., chief of police, city of Cleveland, OH ..................................... . 

Lautman, Barbara, executive dirctor, Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, 

Pa�ks:�n

.r:e

· rc:··i�ti�;···��i;·i�:···N;ii���i"·Ed�·�ti��····�i;ti��··

··

�·�d 

National PI'A�ashington, OC ............................................................................... .

Widome, Mark 0., M.D., associate professor of pediatrics, Pennsylvania State 

University College of Medicine, Hershey, PA, on behalf of the American

Academy of Pediatrics, Wa1hington , OC ................................................................ . 

LE'ITERS, STATEMENTS, ETC .. SUBMl'M'ED FOR THE HEARING 

Cook, Richard, Chief, Firearms Division, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and

Firearms, U.S. Department of the Treasury: Pre�red statement ................... ..

Kovacic, Edward P., chief of police, city of Cleveland, OH: Prepared staten1ent

Lautman. Barbara, executive director, Center to Prevent Handgun Violence,

Pa�ks::in.f:C, �:f:r

��::n�:,n\;��ii���i"·Ed�·��ti��· .. ·�i�ti��··· ·��d

National Pl'A, Washington, OC: 

Article from the Education Week Newsletter entitled, "Survey of Teen

Health and Safety Finds Crime Prevalent at Schools," September 7,

1988 ........................................................................................................................ .

Data concerning percentage of boys who carried knives to school. ............... .

Data concerning violence in our Nation's schools ............................................ .

Prepared statement ................................................................................................ .

Statement on BATF's Outreach Program .......................................................... .

Widome, Mark D., M.D., usociate professor of pediatrics, Pennsylvania State

University College of Medicine, Hershey, PA, on behalf of the American

Academy of Pediatrics, Washington. OC: Prepared statement .......................... .

APPENDIXES 

Appendix 1.-Statement of the National Pl'A .......................................................... . 

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75 

74 

73 

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53 

77 

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IV 

Page 

Appendix 3.-Statement of James Jay Baker, director, National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action . ................. ... . . . . . . .. . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . . . . .. . . .. . . .. ... . . i9 

Appendix 4.-Caught in the Crossfire: A Report on Gun Violence in Our 

Nation·s Schools, September 1990, submitted by the Center to Preven� 

Handgun Violence................................................................................... .................... �l

,.. 

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GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT OF 1990 

THURSDAY. SEPTEMBER 6. 1990 

HOUSE OF REPkESENTATIVES, 

SUBCOMMITl'EE ON CRIME, 

CoMMITI'EE ON THE JUDICIARY, 

Washington. DC. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., in room 

2237, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. William J. Hughes 

(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Present: Representatives William J. Hughes, Romano L. Mazzoli. 

Edward F. Feighan, George W. Gekas, and Chuck Douglas. 

Also present: Hayden W. Gregory, chief counsel; Debra N. 

Diener, assistant counsel; Phyllis Hende!"son, secretary; and Mark 

Brinton, minority counsel. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN HUGHES 

Mr. HuGHF.S. The Subcommittee on Crime will come to order. 

The Chair has received a request to cover this hearing in whole 

or in part by television broadcast, radio broadcast, still photogra· 

phy, or by other similar methods. In accordance with committee 

rule 5(a, permission will be granted unless there is objection. Is 

there objection? 

[No response.] 

Mr. HUGHES. Hearing none, permission is granted. 

Good morning. Welcome to the hearing of the Subcommittee on 

Crime on H.R. 3757. the Gun•Free School Zones Act of 1990. This 

bill, sponsored by our esteemed colleague Ed Feighan, addresses 

the increasing problems and tragedies which occur all too regularly 

when guns are brought onto school property. We are bombarded by 

news reports of yet another student or teacher killing at the hands 

of either an armed and deranged person, or by an angry and armed 

fellow student. 

Equally tragic, the shooting is sometimes accidental, but with the 

same fatal and tragic result. The horror of the killings by Patrick 

Purdy in Stockton, CA, and Laurie Dann in Winnetka, IL, are trag• 

ically not isolated instances. Although recent shootings might not, 

fortunately, be of the same magnitude as in Stockton or Winnetka, 

that does not lessen our outrage and sadness upon learning of the 

loss of a life of any young person or teacher. 

We will hear today from witnesses who are confronted with the 

stark reality of children as shooting victims. A school shooting has 

a devastating impact upon everybody in the school system: Teachers, surviving children, and parents. Unfortunately, one of the 

most repeated themes in all of their statements is the fact that the 

(1) 

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volume of shootings within school facilities does not appear to be 

decreasing at all. 

Our witnesses from the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence and 

the National Education Association have provided us with chilling 

statistics in their written submissions. Barbara Lautman, on behalf 

of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence notes in her testimony 

ihat a 1987 survey by the National School Safety Center estimated 

that 135,000 boys carried guns to schools daily during 1987. 

Joel Packer, for the NEA, states that schools around the country 

report dramatic increases in gun incidents, but notes that this phenomenon is not limited or isolated to only our city school systems 

or to one area of the country. These disturbing trends are national 

in character. 

We correctly emphasize the importance of education in this country-the safety of our students and teachers must be insured. 

[The bill, H.R. 3757, follows:] 

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101ST CONGRESS H R 3757 1ST SESSION 

• • 

To amend title 18. United States Code. to prohibit the possession or dischargt> of 

a firearm in a public srhool zone. 

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

�OVEMBEH :?0, 1989 

Mr. FEIGHAN (for himself. }Ir. STARK, Mr. HOVER. Mr. GRAY, }Ir. FAWELL.

�fr. SMITH of Florida. �lrs. SAIKI. �Ir. BERMAN, Mr. MAZZOLI, Mr. FAZIO, 

and Mr. PuBTERl introduced the follo�;ng bill: which was referrt>ci to the 

Committee on the .Judiciar�· 

A BILL 

To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the 

possession or discharge of a fireann in a public 8"'iool zone. 

1 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa• 

2 lives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, 

8 SECTION I. SHORT TITLE. 

4 This A

�

t may be cited as the "Gun-Free Sehoo,�nes 

5 Act of 1990 , ft:.,1-',., 

t3 SEC. 2. PROHIBITIONS AGAINST POSSESSION OR DIS�ARGE 

7 OF A FIREARM IS A PUBLIC SCHOOL ZONE. 

8 (a) IN GENERAL.-Section 922 of title 18, United

9 States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: 

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1 "(q)(l)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual know2 ingly to possess a firearm at a pl&ee that the individual 

3 knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a public school 

4 zone. 

5 "(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to the possession 

6 of a firearm7 "(i) on private property; 

8 "(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is li9 censed to do so by the State in which the public school 

10 zone is located or a political subdivisfon of the State, 

i 1 and the lav..• of the State or political subdivision re12 quires that, before an individual obtain such a license, 

13 the l&.w �nforcement authorities of the State or political 

14 fUbdivision verify that the individua 1 is qualified under 

15 law to receive the license; 

16 "(iii) which is17 11(l) not loaded; and

18 11(Il) in a locked container, or a locked fire19 arms rack, which is in a motor vehicle; 

20 "(iv) by an individual for use in a program ap21 proved by a public school in the public school zone; or 

22 "(v) by an individual in accordance with a con23 tract entered into between a public school in the public 

24 school zone and the individual or an employer of the 

25 individual. 

eKB 3757 1H 

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1 "(2)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall 

2 be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disre3 gard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to 

4 discharge a firearm at a place that the person knows is a 

5 public school zone. 

6 "(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to the discharge 

7 of a firearms "(i) on private property; 

9 "(ii) as part of a program approved by a public 

10 school in the public school zone, by an individual who 

11 is participating in the program; or 

12 "(iii) by a.n indivicaal in accordance with a con -

13 tract entered into between a public school in the public 

14 school zone and the individual or an employer 'Jf the 

15 individual.". 

16 (b) DEFINJTIONs.-Section 92l(a) of such title 1s 

1 7 amended by adding at the end the following: 

18 "(25) The term 'public school zone' me&.ns19 "(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public school; or 

20 "(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the 

21 grounds of a public school. 

22 "(26) The term 'public school' means a public school 

23 which provides elementary or secondary education, as deter24 mined under State law. 

eHll 37.57 1H 1 (} 

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1 "(27) The term 'motor vehicle' has the meaning given 

2 such term in section 10102 of title 49, United States Code.". 

3 (c) PENALTY.-Section 924(a) of such title is amended

4 by adding at the end the following: 

5 "(4) \Vhoever ,·iolates section 922(q) shall be fined not 

6 more than $5,000, imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or 

7 both. Notwithstanding any other pro,;sion of law, the term of 

8 imprisonment imposed under this paragraph shall not run 

9 concurrently with any other term of imprisonment imposed 

10 under any other provision of law.". 

11 (d) EFFECTIVE DATE.-The amendments made by this

12 section shall apply to conduct engaged in after the end of the 

'3 60-day period beginning on the date of the enactment of this

•. Act. 

l 1

eHll 3i57 1H 

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Mr. HuGna. Before turning to our first panel I would like to ask 

if the ranking Republican perhaps has an opening statement, then 

I'm going to ask the sponsor of the bill if he has an opening statement. The gentleman from New Hampshire. 

Mr. DouGLAS. No, I don't. 

Mr. HUGHF.S. The gentleman from Ohio. 

Mr. Fl!!IGHAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me tell 

you how gratefui I am for your scheduling this bill and so quickly 

following the markup that we had a few weeks ago on the crime 

package. 

I have worked very closely with BATF, as all the members of 

this subcommittee have, over the past several years. I think we've 

all been consistently impressed with the professionalism and the 

expertise of those representatives, and I am delighted to have them 

testifying before us today. 

I am particularly pleased as well that the National Education 

Association, the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, and the 

American Academy of Pediatrics are able to join us as well. 

I would like to point out that one of our witnesses is the chief of 

police for the city of Cleveland, who is delayed due to a change in 

flight schedules, but I understand he will be here momentarily. 

Mr. Chairman, as your opening statement indicated, nothing 

really shocks the conscience of this country more than the news of 

a schoolroom shattered by gunshots. And I think we all have very 

vivid mental images of the incidents that you identified, involving 

Laurie Dann and Patrick Purdy. As you indicated, those are not 

isolated, unfortunately; though celebrated, they are not isolated 

instances. 

We are going to hear from several witnesses today and hear of 

studies that consistently find that thousands of students carry firearms to school each and every day. 

I would tell this audience that just last week in Cleveland, on the 

first day of school at one of our higJi schools, shots rang out in the 

schoolyard during the lunch hour. Eyewitness reports indicate that 

the weapon used w&a an assault pistol: An assault pistol in an 

American high school schoo�ard. 

In 1987. the National School Safety Center estimated that 

135,000 students carried handguns to school daily, and another 

270,000 carried handguns at least once. 

The National Education Association has found that some 282.000 

students are physically attacked in secondary schools each month. 

The NEA study found that about 8 percent of junior and senior 

high school students had missed at least 1 day of school a month 

the pre�ious year because they were simply afraid to go to school. 

And they have good reason, unfortunately, in many cues, since 

schools are no longer safe. 

Mr. Chairman, the Gun•Free School Zones Act is the tint Federal legislative proposal to address the devastating tide of firearm violence in our Nation's schools. The bill would make it iliegal to 

bring a gun within 1,000 feet of an elementary or secondary school. 

There would be an additional further �nalty for those who shoot 

their guns within those areas. The bill exempts school•appr·oved 

programs, schoo! security officers, unloaded guns that are locked in 

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cars, and those with State licenses obtained after a bacqround 

check. 

The Senate voted unanimously to include the Gun-Free School 

Zones Act in its comprehensive crime package. 

Again, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for calling th:..J hearing today and putting together the expert panels of witnesses that 

we have. Our childrens' ft!tures hinge on the quality of their education; certainly we owe the1n no less than a secure environm"'nt in 

which to learn. 

Thank you. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HUGHES. I thank the gentleman. 

We welcome back our first ·Nitness, Mr. Richard Cook, from the 

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearmr. of the Treasury Department. Mr. Cook has testified several times before this subcommittee in his capacity as thE: Chief of A TF Firearms Division. As Division Chief, Mr. Cook has suiJervisory oversight over the Firearms 

Enforcement Branch which is charged with the responsibility regarding investigative matters and in determining eligibility for restoration of rights to possess firearms; and for the Technology 

Branch, which tests and evaluates firearms. 

This is just the latest in a series of supervisory positions held by 

Mr. Cook during his some 19 years at ATF. 

Mr. Cook is accompanied today by Mr. Bradley Buckles. ATF's 

Deputy Chief Counsel since 1983. Mr. Buckles has been an attorney 

with the ATF since 1974. 

We welcome you. We have your prepared statement, which, without objection, wil1 be made a part of the record. 

Before you proceed, I am going to recognize the distinguished 

gentleman from Pennsylvania to see if he has an opening 

statement. 

Mr. GEKAS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, only to the extent tha+ we 

are, of course, eager to hear the testimony of the various witnesses. 

And, as best we can, we will keep our minllB open to all the various 

views so that we can eventually conclude the issue with the best 

minds possible helping to fold in the final resolution of the 

problem. 

We are all interested in safety. We're all interested in our school 

children; how to approach it, and how finally to resolve the problem yet remains to be seen. 

I thank the Chair. 

Mr. HUGHES. I thank the gentleman. 

Mr. Cook, we welcome you back. 

STATEMENT OF RICHARD COOK. CHIEF. FIREARI\IS DIVISION. 

BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY, ACCOMPANIED BY BRADL.EY A. 

BUCKLES, DEPUTY CHIEF COUNSEL 

Mr. CooK. Thank you, Mi". Chairman, members of the subcommittee, good morning. 

I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to 

discuss H.R. 3757, the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. And as 

you stated, appearing with me today is Mr. Bradley A. Buck1

.es, the 

Deputy Chief Counsel for A TF. 

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This proposad legislation would Qmend the Gun Control Act of 

1968 to rr.ake it a crime punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment 

for an individual to possess or discharge a firearm in a public 

sc,1001 zor ..e. 

Under this proposed bill, a public schocl zone would cover the 

school grounds as well as the area around the grounds up to 1,000 

feet. As you know, investigative jurisdiction with respect to the 

Gun Control Act Hes with the Secretan- of the Treasury, who has 

delegated the responsibility to ATF. Therefore, if the bill is enacted, ATF would have the primary jurisdiction of the enforcement 

of its provisions. 

To enforce these and other laws within its jurisdiction, A TF has 

approximately 1,800 special agents nationwide. They are concentrated in large urban areas of the country. 

Our firearms enforcement activities are focused on violent criminals and illegal drug traffickers. As you can see from these numbers. and the law enforcement demands placed upon us. ATF could 

not provide direct protection to all the Nation's schools, and could 

not be expected to be the first line of defense against guns and violence in schools. We believe that this function is, and should 

remain, primarily the respo1 .. sibility of State and local law enforcement officials. ._ 

ATF joins the sponsors of this legislation in deploring the increasing incidents of gun-related violence in and around schools, 

and we support the goal of reducing gun-related violenca in our 

schools. Our schools must be kept free from the horrors of gun-related violence so that our children can attend schools in safety. 

We know that State and local authorities are increasingly called 

upon b} schools when firearms are found in or around school property. While we believe that this problem is best handled by State 

and local authorities, we stand, as always, ready to assist them. 

Indeed, the primary purpose of the Gun Control Act is to assist 

State and local law enforcement in their fight against crime and 

violence. 

I'd like to address the substance of the bill by sharing with the 

subcommittee our preliminary thoughts on how the bill might be 

improved. 

F'irst, the exception relating to the transportation of an unloaded 

firearm is slightly different th&11 a similar provision of existing law 

relating to the transportation of firearms interstate contained in 18 

U.S.C., section 926A. 

The subcommittee may wish to compare the two i:--rovisions to determine whether there may be a benefit to having consistent ruJes 

relating to the transportation of a firearm. 

Second, we would point out that the bill contains no exception 

for the possession of firearms by law enforcement officials or per• 

sonnel of other governmental entities who carry firearrruJ in the exercise of official duties. Therefore, the subcommittee may wish to 

consider an amendment to 18 U.S.C. 925(a)(l), which would exempt 

the possession and use of firearms by these officials in the course of 

official duties. A similar amendment to the statute is proposed in 

the administration's crime bill, S. 1225. 

Third, while the bill curr�ntly contains an exception for persons 

lawfully po8Se88ing firearn1s under certain State licensing schemes 

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it may unnecessarily preempt other State firearms laws governing 

the tr3llSportation or possession of firearms which have been tailored to meet local needs. 

Finally, we would note that the source of constitutional authority 

to enact the legislation is not manifest on the face of the bill. By 

cont.�·ast, when Congress first enacted the prohibitions against possession of firearms by felons, mental incompetents and others, the 

legislation contained specific findings relating to the Commerce 

Clause and other constitutional bases, and the unlawful acts specifically included a commerce element. 

That concludes my testimony. I'd be happy to answer your 

questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Cook follows:] 

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Pt;.EPARED STATEMENT OF RICHARD CooK, CH·<:r. FIREARMS D1v1SION, BUREAU OF 

ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS, U.S. Ot;PARTMENT OF THE TREASURY 

Mister Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee: 

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to 

discuss H.R. 3757, the NGun-Free School Zones Act of 1990." 

Appearing with me is Bradley A. Buckles, Deputy Chief 

Counsel. 

This proposed legislation would amend the Gun Contcol Act of 

1968 to make it a crime punishable by up to 5 years 

imprisonment for an individual to possess or discharge a 

firearm in a •public school zone.• Under this proposed 

bill, a •public school zone� would cover the school grounds 

as well as the area around the grounds up to 1,000 feet. 

As you know, investigative jurisdiction with respect to the 

Gun Control Act lies with the Secretary of the Treasury who 

has delegated this responsibility to ATF. Therefore, if the 

bill is enacted, ATF would have the primary jurisdiction 

over the enforcement of its provisions. To enforce these 

and other laws within its jurisdiction, ATF has 

approximately 1,800 apecial agents nationwide. They are 

concentrated in large urban areas of the country. Our 

firearms enforcement activities are focused on violent 

criminals and illegal drug traffickers. As you can see from 

these numbers, and the law enforcement demands placed upon 

us, ATF could not pro�ide direct protection to all 

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of the Nation's schools, and could not be ezpected to be the 

first line of defdnse against guns and violence in schools. 

We believe that this function is, and should remain, 

primarily the responsibility of State and local law 

enforcement officials. 

ATF joins the sponsors of this legislation in deploring the 

increasing incidents of gun-related violence in and around 

schools, and we support the goal of reducing gun related 

violence in our schools. Our schools must be kept free from 

the horrors of gun-relate� violence so that our children can 

attend schools in safety. We know that State and local 

authorities are increasingly called upon by schools '"'hen 

firearms are found in or around school property. While we 

believe that this problem is best handled by State and local 

authorities, we stand ready to assist them. Indeed, the 

primary purpose of the Gun Control Act is to assist State 

and local law enforcement in their fight against crime and 

violence. 

I would like to address the sub�tance of the bill by sharing 

with the Committee our preliminary thoughts on how the bill 

might be improved. 

First, the exception r�lating to the transportation of an 

unloaded firearm is slightly different that a similar 

provision of existing law relating to the transportation of 

firearms interstate contained in 18 u.s.c S 926A. The 

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committee may wish to compare the two provisions to 

determine whether there may be a benefit to having 

consister.t rules relating to the transportation of a firearm. 

Second, we would point out that the bill contains no 

ezception for the possession of firearms by law enforcement 

officials or personnel of other governmental entities who 

carry firearms in the ezercise of official duties. 

Therefore, the Committee may wish to consider an amendment 

to 18 u.s.c. S 92S(a)(l) which would ezempt the possession 

and use of !irearms by these officials in the course of 

official duties. A similar amendment to the statute is 

proposed in the Administration's crime bill, S. 1225.

Third, while the bill curre"tly contains an ezception for 

persons lawfully possessing firearms under certain state 

licensing schemes it may unnecessarily preempt other state 

firearms laws governing the transportatio� or possessicn of 

firearms which have been tailored to meet local needs. 

Finally, we would note that the source of constitutional 

authority to enact the legislation is not manifest on the 

face of the bill. By contrast, when Congress first enacted 

the prohibitions against possession of firearms by felons, 

mental incompetents and others, �he legislation contained 

specific findinqs relating to the commerce Clause ,nd other 

constitutional bases, and the u�lawful acts specifically 

included a commerce element. 

I'll be happy to answer your questions. 

35-526 0 - 91 - 2

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Mr. HUGHES. Mr. Cook, has the administration taken a position 

on H.R. 3757 or its Senate counterpart, which is in their crime bill? 

Mr. Coox. I'm not aware of the position that the administration 

has taken as yet. However, in the past, I know the administration 

has been inclined to favor the penalty enhancement for existing 

provisions such as the drug.free school zone enhancements. 

Mr. HUGHES. This wo11ld be a major change, would it not, in Fed· 

eral jurisdiction, in that basically, we've played a supportive role in 

endorsement of gi,n laws throughout the •�ountry, supportive of 

local and State efforts to attempt to license and, as a matter of 

fact, to restrict and punish. This would, it seems to me, put us in 

the position of, for the first time, playing a direct role in the en• 

forcement of a p�rticular Federal law-a gun law-at the local 

level, the school district level. 

Mr. Coox. ATF has always been involved with supporting State 

and local people in their prosecutions. 

Mr. HUGHES. I say that's been our role-as supportive. Does this 

give us the original jurisdiction? 

Mr. Coox. In this particular instance, this legislation would give 

us original Federal jurisdiction, which would--

Mr. HUGHES. That would be a major departure from basicaUy 

what has been the practice in the past. 

Mr. Coox. As far as schools are concerned, yes, it is. 

Mr. HuGHF.S. A major departure fro1n a traditional federalism 

concept which basically defers to State and local units of govern· 

ment to enforce their laws. 

Mr. CooK. Yes. 

Mr. HUGHF..S. How many ATF agents would you have to have to 

enforce the law-assuming A TF had the original jurisdiction over 

enforcement? 

Mr. CooK. We have approximately 1,800 right now. We have 22 

district offices in major urban areas. Outside of the major urban 

areas, we have about 160 suboffices, which we call post of duties. 

Those locations were 1

)Y no means meant to locate in or around 

school facilities. 

Mr. HUGHES. Any idea how many school districts there are in the 

country? 

Mr. CooK. No, sir, I don't. 

Mr. HUGHES. I'm sure that there are tens of thousands. 

Mr. CooK. There are many, many school districts. Many more 

than we have the resources to address. 

Mr. HUGHES. Just recently I believe you assisted in some arrests 

in a drug.free school zone where some guns were involved. Where 

was that, can_ you tell us? 

Mr. Coox. Yes, Mr. Hughes, that was in Detroit within the last 6 

days so it's very topical. This happened on August 30, where ATF 

and other members of the Detroit Task Force, which consisted of 

the Detroit Police Department and the Wayne County Sherifrs 

Office, executed 31 Federal and State search warrants as part of 

the drug.free school zone's project. This project, which was under• 

taken by the members, was initiated to guarantee a drug.free pe-, 

rimeter around elementary and secon.1ary schools in the Detroit 

area. They had been plagued by narco·,: '!S and firearms trafficking 

violations around schools. We saw the young children a.nd teens 

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who were needlessly dying in large numbers-staggering numbers-each year because of the drug trafficking in that area.

This combined effort was developed to tackle these violations 

both on the State and Federal levels. Armed with Federal/State 

statutes involving drug trafficking, the crews presented specifics of 

cases to both Federal and State prosecutors for evaluation on how 

to proceed. When the warrants were all executed, the results were 

tallied. We made 58 arrests and seized 157 grams of cocaine and 

137 grams of heroin. We also seized some 21 firearms and ended up 

with several prosecutable firearms cases. 

Mr. HUGHES. What kind of firearms were they? 

Mr. CooK. They didn't give me the specific breakdown, but it was 

the normal array. There was a mixture of assault weapons, handguns . .-.. ,d rifles. 

Mr. HUGHES. Do you have the capacity at ATF to work what is, 

in essence. street crime at that level? Do you have the assets, informants, and other information available in sufficient numbers to 

attempt to work cases in school districts? 

Mr. CooK. No, we don't. We would have to divert from existing 

resources and our existing priorities in the violent crime and narcotics-related area. 

Mr. HUGHE.9. From where would you divert, because we're 

strained right now. We're lucky if we can inspect a firearms dealer 

once in 15 years at this point. 

Mr. CooK. That's correct. That would be a hard decision. Th�re 

are no good areas to divert from. Every single one of our agents is 

working on our highest priorities. To address this situation would 

either require additional resources or we'd have to take somebody 

off the things that were more imP?rtant.; not to say that these

cases wouldn't be important but we d have to look at the case individually and decide whether that had a higher priority than what 

we're already doing. 

Mr. HUGHES. Mr. Cook, you've been in this business 19 years-at 

least at the ATF level-and in law enforcement all of your adult 

life, really. Let me ask you, is this a role that the Federal Government should be playing? Should we be taking the lead in this area? 

Mr. CooK. Should the Federal Government be taking the lead? 

Mr. HUGHES. Yes, should we be in fact taking the primary role 

basically away from State and local law enforcement? 

Mr. CooK. I think that we should be supporting the State and 

local departments in their fights. 

Mr. HUGHES. The gentleman from Pennsylvania. 

Mr. GEKAS. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

As to your statement of how you would have to divert from existing resources, you say one of the priorities-I think you said-was 

dr�g-related violent crimes which is one of your top priorities. 

Mr. CooK. Exactly. 

Mr. GEKAS. So you're fearful in answer to the chairman's question about diverting from where there is specific work to be done. 

But in the Detroit situation that you mentionc.-d. it seems that 

that's a combination of what is already one of your priorities. It 

seems like the priority that you stated, drug-relatt:d violence, 

brought about your involvement in the Detroit situation which, incidentally, was a school problem as well. 

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So maybe if something of this order should ever evolve as reflected in this bill, it's really not a diversion that we're talking about 

but rather a folding in of the school problem into the drug violence 

priority that you've already set. 

Am I being too erudite for a change? 

Mr. CooK. The facts as they existed-and I'm not sure if you are 

or not, but--

Mr. GEKAS. Pardon me? 

Mr. CooK. I'm not certsin. 

Mr. GEKAS. You're not certain I'm erudite? 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. CooK. What I wanted to point out about the Detroit and 

other existing cases that we worked is that the statutes that we 

presently have and that we presently enforce would more or less 

overlap. We have a mandatory sentencing provision which provides 

the minimum mandatory se:'ltence for somebody trafficking drugs 

and possessing firearms, whether it be on school grounds or off 

school grounds. So that currently exists. 

Other ATF statutes prohibit unlicensed dealing in firearms. 

whether they occurred on school grounds or off. So there are existing things which would overlap. 

Mr. GEKAS. That's the point, that we already have a body of law, 

which if this bill had never seen the light of day, fully enforced 

could solve some of the problems which this bill seems to want to 

project to try to solve. Isn't that correct? 

Mr. CooK. That's correct. 

Mr. GEKAS. That brings me to just one other specific question. 

This particular bill calls for a magical zone of a thousand feet and 

so forth. 

Are there any statistics, or do you have any knowledge of anyone 

who within a thousand feet--maybe the Detroit situation is an example of it-within a thousand feet of the school who brought 

about injury to someone in the use of a revolver or the illegal use 

of firearms who has not escaped the net of prosecution or investigation for illegal use of firearm�? 

Mr. CooK. I don't have any information or statistics on that. 

Mr. GEKAS. And conversely, the statistics have to be garnered as 

to how many of these things happen 1,002 feet away from a school 

zone to see whether or not this is a practical-how shall I say, 

zone, there's no other way to put it. If the laws were fully enforced, 

whether it's 500 feet, 800 feet, or 1,008 feet, we have an adequate 

body of laws, do we not, to pursue those perpetrators? 

Mr. CooK. We have adequate laws in our jurisdiction to address 

what we think are the very serious crimes that are happening out 

there. 

Mr. GEKAS, I have no further questions. 

Mr. HUGHES. The gentleman from Ohio. 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Mr. Cook, for your testimony. I thought it was very 

thoughtful testimony, it's very h�lpfut and I particularly appreciate the time that you've obviously spent in your office looking at 

the legislath.>n and making what I think are very helpful comments 

and recommendations to improve it. 

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I don't know if you've had an or.

portunity to see the testimony 

that Chief Kovacic will give. I don t know if that has been distributed early to you or not. 

Mr. Coo&. No, I haven't. 

Mr. FEIGHA�. One thing that I think we all agree on is that 

there's a serious problem here and we need help in the local community-wherever that help can come from-in dealing with a 

phenomenon in the schools that just becomes more and more troubling every year. Chief Kovacic's testimony speaks to that issue. 

He has-and I'll just give you a very, very quick overview of itbut he has given just some data about the incidence of gun use in 

the Cleveland school -�ystem over the past 7 years. It is very disturbing information. We have seen an increase of 100 percent the 

nuinber of gun incidents on school property since 1986 alone. 

In 1989, we reported 29 incidents in the Cleveland schools. And 

this year so far we've reported 34, which in itself represents a 17-

percent ?ncrease just over last year, and obviously we're not finished with 1990. So we're very concerned that we will have perhaps 

a SO-percent increase just over last year. 

What I'd like to find out from you if you have that information, 

Mr. Cook, or if you're familiar with it, is how consistent the Cleveland experience over the past 7 years would be with national 

trends. 

Does this strike you as something that must be unique to Cleveland schools or is this consistent with what you understand to be 

ha_p_pening

.

at least in the urban school districts across the country?

Mr. CooK. I don't have any specific information and I haven't 

had a chance to look at the testimony that you're referring to. 

I think that what is stated there probably is not a localized phenomena. We have recognized that there's a problem and we have 

taken some limited steps to address that. We have a Treasury initiative which is named Project Outreach. And under Project Outreach, every ATF agent in the United States is tasked '1ith making 

a presentation either to a civic group or to a /SChool group 

nationwide. 

This year we've talked to over 41,000 -�pie, and 80, 85, 90 percent of those people are schoolchildren. While we primarily are addressing the drug issues in schools, we also are addressing the issue 

of firearms and how dangerous they can be. 

So havin� recognized that there is something happening in the 

schools, we re trying to address this within existing means. We feel 

Pr�ject Outreach has been successful in that nature. 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Just one other issue on the testimony that we're 

going to hear from Chief Kovacic a little later--he had suggested 

that if this bill is enacted that police and school otlicials be required to notify the appropriate A TF field office of any incidents. 

Do we keep such records now and is that a workable system? I 

assume that we have those records now. 

Mr. Coox. Of the fact that we've been notified? 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Yes. 

Mr. Coo&. No, we don't keep records on the notification, whether 

by a school official, or by some other type of citizen making notification of an A TF violation. 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Is that a workable system to collect the data? 

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Mr. Coox. To separate the incidents by the person notifying? 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Right. 

Mr. CooK. I think the computer could be programmed to obtain 

that information but it would take resources to do it. We don't capture that at the present time. 

Mr. F'E1GHAN. Let me tum to a couple of specific recommendations and items that you mentioned in your testimony. 

On page 3 of your testimony you state that the exemption regarding firearms and motor vehicles might be slightly different 

than a similar provision of existing law. 

I wonder if you could comment a little bit on what you might see 

as the inconsistencies of those sections. As I read it, section 926A 

requires that the firearm be unloaded and not readily accessible, or 

directly accessible, from the passenger compartment; and if there's 

no separate compartment, that the firearm be locked in a 

container. 

The bill before us would require that if there's a sel)arate compartment that it must be locked. 

Is your concern only that the identical language is not used or is 

it that you consider the bill before us to be a broader restriction 

than the one that might exist in existing law? 

Mr. CooK. I'm going to ask Mr. Buckles, if I could, to address 

that. 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Please. 

Mr. BUCKLES. Our primary is the fact that the two provisions do 

not use the same language. Also, your bill would permit the firearm to be in a locked gun rack. while this would not be allowed 

under section 926A. So in that sense, your exemption is somewhat 

broader. 

The other aspect of section 926A which precludes the passenger 

compartment is not included in yours. However, I think your bill is 

basically aiming at the same thing, other than the firearms rack. 

If two sections within the statute are to address locked containers and the circumstances under which they are to be locked, we 

would prefer the use of identical language. If there was a reason to 

add on the locked gun rack, that could be done separately. 

Mr. FEIGHAN. I can understood the benefit of having consistency 

in the law on that issue, and I appreciate that recommendation. 

Either witness: You had stated also in your testimony that the 

bill's current exemption for those who have received a State firearms license, if that licensing procedure includes some type of 

background check. may unnecessarily preempt other State firearms laws. 

I am wondering what you're thinking about there. The bill 

merely exempts certain persons whose background has been 

checked. 

Mr. BUCKLES. We examined some of the State laws in order to 

compare r,our provision against different State laws. I'm not sure 

"preempt ' is exactly the word that we should be using-but there 

seems to be some inconsistency. For exam�

le, it's our understanding that the Illinois system requires what s called an Illinois firearms owner's ID card. That is basically a license to purchase the 

firearm. It's not a license to possess a firearm. They do a back� 

ground check before the card is issued, so in one sense it would 

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meet the purpose of your statute. That is, it ensures compliance 

with State law. But, it's technically not a license to "possess" firearms. Consequently, someone in Illinois would technically be 

unable to meet the exemption of your stat.ute which requires a license to possess. 

possess 

In other States what we see most frequently is that licenses to 

firearms, or carry firearms, are primarily limited to handguns. So that in a particular State there may be no way in which a 

person could meet the exemption in your bill in the case of a long 

gun, the State will only issue that license to carry a pistol or a 

handgun. 

There were a lot of other State laws we looked at, regulating the 

transportation of firearms. We saw some differences within our 

statute here that we pointed out earlier with respect to section 

926A, and there are similar differences between your statute and 

various State laws that may have regulations on how a firearm can 

be lawfully transported in an automobile. 

I believe it was a California statute we looked at that was similar 

to yours except that it didn't require that it be unloaded. It required that it be locked in the trunk of the vehicle. So you could be 

in compliance with California law by transporting your loaded 

hunting rifle locked in the trunk of your vehicle. Nonetheless, this 

conduct still wouldn't be complying with your bill because the firearm was loaded. 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Right. 

Mr. BUCKLES. There were different twists in every one of the 

statutes on how the firearm could be transported. Some of them 

simply required that the firearm be unloaded as the only condition 

to transporting it in a motor vehicle. 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Again, thank you, Mr. Cook, and I appreciate your 

testimony very much. As this exchange has demonstrated, the 

thoughtful recommendations that you made are helpful. Thank 

you. 

Thank you. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HUGHES. The gentleman from New Hampshire. 

Mr. DouoLAs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Cook, I'm just curious what this law adds to your arsenal 

other than a lot of problems at this point. I read the Handgun Control Report on School Violence. And in every instance it's a minor. 

a ninth grader. Oakland. 14-year-old: Redondo Beach. 17-year-old; 

Fort Myers, 14-year-old. Third graders, fourth graders. 

What happens when this is law and a school calls up and says, 

"we just had a fourth grader shoot a fifth grader, send the ATF 

agent over?" What are you going to do with the ;cid? 

Mr. Coox. As you are aware, one example is that the penalty 

wouldn't apply. The person would be prosecuted under the juvenile 

offender statutes. 

Mr. DouGLAS. The 5-y�ar felony isn't going to apply anyway. 

Mr. CooK. That's correct. 

Mr. DouaLAs. See, that's my problem here. I agree with the PTA 

and with everyone else, there is a problem of guns in schools. I 

have a solution but this bill is certainly poorly drafted and in no 

way will help that solution. 

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You're not going to be able to do anything for any of the cases 

mentioned here because every one of them is a minor; correct? 

Mr. Q>og, I haven't had an opportunity to read that, but if 

they're all minors, certainly the penalty provision under this statute wouldn't apply. 

Mr. DouoLAS. Is the problem adults in the neighborhood, because 

this is a thousand foot zone? I live one block from a school, and I'm 

not aware we've ever had problems anywhere in my State with 

adults. If there are prob!ems, according to the handgun people, it's 

kids in the school grounds themselves. 

Are you aware of adults? Because now we're talking those who 

would be subject to the law, within a thousand feet of schools doing 

something to create school violence? 

Mr. Q>oK. The adults that we're primarily concerned with are 

covered under the existing statutes, which are normally related to 

narcotics traffickers who are armed at the time they're committing 

those violations; or those who are selling firearms to children, in 

other words, dealing in firearms without a license. They are covered under existing statutes. 

Mr. DouoLAS. How would this law even help the chief in Cleveland? This is a Federal law. He has no jurisdiction to make an 

arrest under a Federal law anyway, does he? 

Mr. CooK. If there were an existing Federal law and a violation 

occurred in their presence, they could detain and call ATF, and we 

would make the decision whether to prosecute. 

Mr. DouGLAS. But if this bill became law and I'm chief of police 

in Cleveland, I can't make a single arrest under this law anyway, 

can I? 

Mr. CooK. No, I don't believe so. 

Mr. Douous. Of course not, because I'm not a Federal la.w enforcement official. 

So if this becomes law, I've got to call ATF and say, will you guys 

come down? And you say, what's it, another 14-year-old? 

Yes. 

Well, thafs not on our watch, we don't have anything to do with 

kids. 

So the law can't be enforced by the local police, and it won't be 

enforced by you folks. And yet somehow we're going to pass a law 

to do something about handgun violence in schools. So there's a 

disconnect here. 

Mr. CooK. Yes, sir, we would have a hard time directing-resources to enforce that type of violation when there are other serious violations occurring. 

Mr. DouoLAS. Let me ask you this: The drug.free school zone is 

an enhanced penalty provision for what is already a.n illegal act; 

namely, having drugs anywhere, whether it's in school, church, 

this building, or anywhere else; am I correct? 

Mr. CooK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. DouoLAS. But it's legal to have guns within 1,000 feet, or 200 

feet, or 3 miles of the school; is it not? 

Mr. CooK. Yes, it is. 

Mr. DouoLAS. I live one block from the Kimball school in Concord, NH. When I get in my car and drive past that school with a 

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gun on the back seat of my car to go out target shooting, I've violated this law if it becomes law; am I correct? 

Mr. CooK. Yes, unless you're one of the exceptions, you've viob,t· 

ed the law. 

Mr. DouoLAS. I have an exception for a pistol because I'm licensed to carry a pistol. But there's no license in New Hampshire 

for rifles or shotguns. So you can make a good arrest under this-I 

get a 5-year felony conviction for driving past the Kim ball school, 

which I have to drive �t because I only live one block fro111 it.

Mr. 

Mr. CooK. 

DouoLAS. 

Unless 

It's 

you 

within 

ve met 

1,000 

the 

feet, 

provisionsyes. I'm one block from it. 

And it's from -"the outer edge of the property. In other words, if the 

school is on a 40- or 50-acre tract, it's the outer perimeter of the 

property that applies; am I correct? 

Mr. CooK. That's the way I understand the legislation. 

Mr. DouGLAS. Not the building itself? 

Mr. CooK. No, it's on the grounds and well within 1,000 feet from 

the property line. 

Mr. DouoLAS. As I BBY, we have a problem. 

Wouldn't the answer be the same one that we've had to do at 

Federal courthouses, and that's namely metal detectors. The only 

thing that works. We have laws against bringing guns into Federal 

courthouses and people still do it; do they not? 

Mr. CooK. That's correct. That's one solution. It depends on 

whether you consider it an infringement of a person's rights to 

search school children. 

Mr. DouGLAS. But if a school in an urban area had a real problem with firearms and wanted to make sure they had a gun-free 

school, the answer is a metal detector, not some law that can't be 

enforced against the kids anyway. 

Mr. CooK. That would be an answer. 

Mr. DouGLAS. OK. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HUGHES. I thank the gentleman. 

The g�ntleman from Kentucky. 

Mr. MAZZoLJ. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Cook, I was interested-you had said earlier that A TF does 

do some on the school premises seminars, mostly with res�t to 

drugs, but now the question of gun, and gun safety comes into it. 

Do you have any kind of estimate, or any sort of figures on 

whether or not in those schools to which ATF agents have gone or 

in which ATF seminars have been conducted there is any more 

awareness on the part of the local school authorities as to some 

things they can do, for example, metal detectors? 

Do you have any kind of wisdom for that? 

Mr. CooK. No, we don't keep any statistics, although we ha,·� re-­

ceived letters of appreciation and we've received some followup inquiries from some of the children that we spoke to relating to their 

interest in A TF and our jurisdictions. But no statistics are kept on 

the success or failure. 

Mr. MAZZOLJ. Because it's certainly especially grievous, it seems 

to me, that handgun violence, g1.1.n•related violence. takes place on 

school property, I think what this bill seeks to do is certainly 

commendable. 

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As a cosponsor of it, I generally agree with that. We're trying to 

find some answer to this very difficult problem. We have to be

aware of the good faith concerns raised by law enforcement-and 

you've expressed them today. But there does seem to be something 

to do more than just simply stand around and say, well, you could 

put metal detectors in. 

Have you got any ideas? De you think enhanced penalties would 

help? But as the gentleman from New Hampshire has pointed out, 

a lot of these ar� kids who are youngsters who aren't going to be 

penalized by the system even if they injured a 

playmate. 

Mr. Co>K. That's exactly the problem. I really don't have many 

solutionF. I'm not sure that if you've taken a juvenifo and even 

p�ated him under the juvenile provisions, whether when this 

person grows up-is a couple of years older-that that's going to 

have a deterrent effect. I don't have a good feel for how that would 

work with children. 

My enforcement, other than when I was a local officer, dealt primarily with the adult offenders. When I was a local police officer, 

of course we went after schools-and rnost of what we di _i, was try 

to educate. And I think that's what ATF has said to this point, that 

there is some value with focusing on the education of our children. 

Mr. MAZZOLI. Thank you very much. 

Thanks, Mr Chairman. 

Mr. HUGHF.S. I thank the gentleman. 

Just one ndditional question. 

Mr. Cook, when the local department has a problen,, whether it 

be a school district or a problem with the transportation of weapons, or the abuse of weapons in violation of laws, and a request is 

made of your department, what is the standard operating procedure when a request for assistance is made? 

Mr. CooK. A TF will, in all instances, try and res�nd. And wher 

ever there are resources available, we will responc'. 

Mr. HUGHF.S. Let's say Cleveland has a 

prob:em with existing 

law, their gun laws, whether it be a school district or otherwise, 

you would respond to that request? 

Mr. CooK. Yes, we would. We do respond it a firearm is found on 

a school ground 01 in the possession of a student and they want to 

know where the :irearm came from, ATF would always be called 

and we would trace the firearm back to the adult. If tt�ere were a

violation that occurred because the adult committed a violation 

within ATF's jurisdiction, or ma:. · within State jurisdiction, we 

would follow up in that reJpect. 

Mr. HUGHF.S. I know that that's your practice in all s:.ireas of jurisdiction. For inste.nce, you have special expertise in the area of 

arson, particularly incendiary devices; do 

you not? 

Mr. CooK. Yes, we do. 

Mr. HuouF.S. Over the years, your role has been a supportive 

role. 1'here was a time when you had to determine that an incendiary device was involved. Today you don't have to do that; you can 

move right in with your expertise and work with the local department if it's an arson-the same thing with firearms violations. Is 

that not so? 

Mr. CooK. That is correct. 

27 

.I 

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Mr. HUGHF3. And of course you send your experts in, they work 

with the local department, and you attempt to pursue an 

investigation. 

Mr. CooK. That is �orrc:t. 

Mr. HUGHES. Basically, if this law were enacted, it would give 

you the original jurisdiction, you would have primary jurisdiction 

in school districts? 

Mr. CooK. Yes. 

Mr. HuGHF.S. Which is just a total reversal of your role? 

Mr. CooK. Yes. 

Mr. HUGHES. Thahk you very much, I appreciate it. 

We all agrE.� that we have some serious prorlems in school districts around the country, and the question is how we c-an best address those problems. That's why this particular heariug is so important because I think we have to take some additional steps to 

deal with the increasing violence in school districts. It's unaccept­

:!ble and it's creating tragic results; so we look forward to working 

with ATF in trying to craft the very Lest response we can. 

Mr. CooK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the subcommittee. 

Mr. HUGHES. Thank you very much. 

Our next panel of witnesses consists of Chief Edward Kovacic, 

chief of police far ClPveland, OH; Ms. Bl,rl

;ara Lautman, executive 

director of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence; Mr. Joel 

Packer, l�lative specialist, National Education Association, and 

Dr Mark Widome, associate professor of pediatrics at the Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine. 

Mr. GEKAS. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HUGHES. The gentleman from Pennsylvania. 

Mr. GEKAS. A request for personal privilege to add to the credentials of Dr. Widome who is one of the panelists. 

Mr. HUGHES. I am going to do that-­

Mr. GEKAS. Good. 

Mr. HUGHES lcontinuing]. After I .ecognize the gentleman from 

Ohio to introduce the distinguished ch;ef of police from Cleveland, 

OH 

The _gentleman from Ohio. 

Mr. FEIGHAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

As I mentioned at the opening ,Jf the hearing, we have the privilege and the honor today to hs.ve testimony from the chief of 

police, Chief Kovacic, of the city of Cleveland. Chief Kovacic has 

serveti as police for about 1 year now, I believe. Mr. Kovacic has 

abtv:,i.utely an outstanding and distinguished record in law enforcem mt in the Great.er Cleveland area. I think that it is probably fair 

to t;ay that there is no single figure in law enforcement in the 

Greater Cleveland northern Ohio area who commands greater res

r

•, t from both his peers in law enforcement as well as the public 

·H. Jarge. 

I am delighted that he has taken t!·.e time to join us today to testify on this very important sut?ject. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. HUGHES. Chief, we're happy to have you, and I want to tell 

Jou th11t in Ed FeighP..n, you have one of the finest Members of the 

He ... se. Over the years Ed has worked on most of the crime initiativ"" that have come out of this subcommittee, whether it be for• 

28 

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24 

feiture, which this subcommittee wrote; or a money laundering 

statute, which Ed Feighan helped write; and about 36 other crime 

initiatives. So we are very happy that Ed Feighan is a member of 

this subcommittee. 

The gentleman from Pennsylvania. 

Mr. GEKAS. Yes, th&nk you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to add, too, to the credentials of a member of the panel. 

Dr. Widome. who comes to us from Hershey Medical Center. But 

he is not a newcomer to being a lobbyist or proponent for legislative matters. In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, he was one of 

the leading figures in a strong movement to enact car seat legislation to protect our youngsters in moving vehicles. And a highly 

successful venture it was on his part. So that what he tells us has a 

legislative context beyond some of the normal expectations that we 

would have from our medical community. 

So I am happy to welcome him personally as well as a Member 

of Congress. 

Mr. HUGHES. Dr. Widome, I don't know whether George here is 

your Congressman, but he is ou:- resident expert on the death 

penalty. 

Dr. W1DOME. Yes, he is my Congressman. 

Mr. HuGHF.S. He's a good one. He has other interests besides the 

death penalty but he is the foremost expert. 

Barbara Lautman is the executive director of the Center to Pre-

. vent Handgun Violence, which was established, I believe, in 1983, 

as a nonprofit education research group headquartered in Washington, DC. Among the center's many activities it has developed gun 

violence prevention and other school curricula. Ms. Lautman has 

held numerous positions with political and nonprofit groups and 

was the director of Communications for Handgun Control, Inc., for 

the 8 years prior to her present positi01 .. 

Mr. Joel Packer has been a legislative specialist with the National Education Association [NEA] since 1983. Mr. Packer is responsible for, among other areas, environmental hazards in the schools 

and gun control. Prior to joining the NEA, he was the assistant director of government relations with the National Asrociation of 

State Universities and Land Grant Colleges. 

While this is Mr. Packer's first appearance before this subcommittee, he has testified before Congress o:.i many, many occasionsproba�ly some 30 occasions. We are happy to have you with us this 

momu,g. 

We have your statements, which, without objection, will be made 

a part of the record in full. We hol)t' you can summarize. Why 

don't we start with you, Chief? We welcome you here this morning. 

STATEMENT OF EDWARD P. KOVACIC, CHIEF OF POLICE, CITY 

OFCLEVELA�D.CLEVELAND,OH 

Mr. KovACIC. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the 

subcommittee. 

My name is Edward P. Kovacic. I am chief of police for the city 

of Cleveland, OH. I am pleased to testify in support of the bill in• 

troduced by Congressman Edward Feighan. Congressman Feighan 

is a personal friend of longstanding and a strong supporter of the 

•

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25 

Cleveland Police Department and law enforcement. I thank him for 

the opportunity to testify on behalf of this bill, which has the backing and strong support of myself as well as the Honorable Michael 

R. White, mayor of the city of Cleveland.

I would also like to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to testify. 

"Cleveland city schools open with a bang.'' Those were the words 

of a local newscaster commenting on the events of the first day of 

school in Cleveland last week. A young man, armed with a handgun, fired several shots outside a crowded high school. 

Just days earlier, shots were fired at Cleveland police officers 

from armed gunmen from the safety of an elementary school playground. That incident resulted in the arrest of seven individuals 

and the seizure of two handguns, four shotguns, and one rifle. The 

seven confiscated weapons could have been directed at the students 

and teachers instead of the police officers. The two groups had 

been seeking each other out throughout the day in the area of that 

playground. Fortunately, they clashed late at night. 

Since 1�83, Cleveland police have recorded 203 incidents involving the use of firearms on school property. I have a breakdown by 

the year in the handout. In each of these years, with the exception 

of 1985, the number of incidents has shown an increase over the 

previous year. With 4 months remaining in 1990, Cleveland has already recorded a 17-percent increase over the total number of incidents reported in 1989. 

1990 is proving to be a record year, but it's a record that no community wants. A close examination of the reported incidents reveal 

that firearms have been used in a wide variety of offenses in and 

around the schools-offenses such as felonious assault, aggravated 

robbery, kidnaping, and rape have all been reported in which firearms were used. 

In previous years, the possession and use of firearms came to 

police attention primarily through the reporting of threats and 

assaults. 

In 1990, we now seize firearms from individuals involved in drug 

trafficking in and around the schools. Our experience indicates the 

predominant firearm use in school incidents is the handgun. There 

have been, however, incidents involving shotguns, rifles, and semiautomatic assault weapons. 

Since 1983, more than 200 firearn1s were seized in school-related 

incidents. 

The Ohio Legislature has reacted to the school firearms problem 

by introducing Ohio's senate bill 52 on January 24, 1989. Senate 

bill 52 makes possession of a firearm on school property a felony of 

the second degree punishable by a term of incarceration of 2, 3, 4, 

or 5 to 15 years. The proposed Ohio legislation differs from the 

Gun-Free School Zones Act in that it applies only to firearms in 

school or actually on school property. 

The Gun-Free School Zones Act establishes a zone which extends 

1,000 feet in any direction from the school. Its coverage is broader 

and would more directly address the problem of pushers attempting to solicit drug sales among children in areas adjacent to school 

property following possession of a firearm. 

3() 

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In addition to covering a wider geographic area than Ohio's 

senate bill 52, the act's provisions require that the term of imprisonment shall run consecutive to any other term of imprisonment 

imposed under any other provisions of law. This will serve as a 

potent deterrent to those who may contemplate engaging in armed 

criminal activity in and around schools. 

Therefore, those who are not deterred and are arrested and convicted, the aggregate period of incarceration for State and Federal 

offenses will keep them from committing any further crimes for a 

considerable period of time 

I would, however, suggest one modification to this act which 

would clarify the exceptions to the law's coverage. While providing 

protection in and around the schools, this act, as drafted, will not 

interfere 

possess 

with the lawful activities of anyone otherwise entitled to 

a firearm. Through explicit language the act excludes private residences, schools, security officers, and those legally transportir J firearms. 

It does not, however, specifically exempt Federal, State, or local 

law enforcement officers who are authorized to carry firearms and 

who at the time in question are acting within the scope of their 

duties. 

An examination of chapter 44, title 18, section 925, reveals language excepting firearms imported for, sold, or shipped to, or 

issued for the use of political subdivisions from coverage under 

chapter 44. The Gun-Free School Zones Act will fall under chapter 

44 but deals with possession and use of a firearm while the remaining provisions of chapter 44 deal with firearms, importation, and 

transactions. 

The inclusion of specific language in the act which excludes law 

enforcement officers acting within the scope of their duties would 

leave no doubt as tc, the act's intended coverage. 

If the Gun-Free School Zones Act is enacted into law, I would 

promulgate a directive which would require that in each case of a 

person being found in possession of a firearm in, on, or within 1,000 

feet of any school, the local field office of the Bureau of Alcohol, 

Tobacco and Firearms be advised so that the matter may be pre•• 

pared for presentation to the U.S. attorney for prosecution. 

In summary, conditions in Cleveland cannot be that different 

from the rest of our Nation's cities. Over the past 7 years, we have 

seen a marked, virtually continuous rise in the number of incidents 

involving firearms in or around school property. 

It is almost as if the purpose of our schools has been changed 

from a place devoted to education and preparing for the future to 

an open marketplace for drug dealers and those that prey upon 

children. Therefore, I urge you to act promptly and favorably consider passage of the Gun•Free School Zones Act of 1990. 

You have the power to restore confidence in the ability of goverr..ment to safeguard our children, our Nation's most valuable reaource. Passage of this ad will enable our children and their teachers to travel to and from and attend their schools without an overriding fear for their personal safety. 

I'd like to add here that what we are seeing in the city of Cleveland in an acceleration of violence, not only by juveniles but by 

young peufi!c up to the age of 21 who are banding together and 

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forming gangs and trying to take control of drug trafficking. And 

since these young people hang out primarily in the playgrounds 

around the schools, and have members that are attending schools, 

the incidence of weapons in the schools hm, risen, and the numbe1· 

of incidences being reported to the Cleveland police has rise:a 

accordingly. 

In regard to this, just the other day before yesterday, this article 

appeared in the Cleveland newspaper: "Curiosity played a dirty 

trick on Steven Lauter, 16, when shotgun pellets started flying 

Friday night near 55th and Central. 'I had my back to where the 

shooting was going on. I turned around to see who was doing it and 

something hit me in the eye and I couldn't see after that,' said 

Steven, an East Technical High School student, from his bed at St. 

Vincent Charity Hospital. He said doctors informed him yesterday 

following surgery he may regain normal sight in his right eye after 

some time. A juvenile and an adult from Cleveland are being held 

in connection with the shootings. 

"The first attack occurred. about 11:30 p.m. Friday when three 

youths, dressed in black jumpsuits, opened fire with shotguns on 

Clara Edgerson, 18, of Cleveland, and Steven, who were talking in 

a playgronnd on East 55th. He was treated for shotgun and pellet 

wounds to the head, neck, and cheek. Steven suffered pellet 

wounds to the chest and back in addition to the eye injury. The 

young lady was the one that was wounded in the back. 

"Witnesses say no words were spoken. They just began to fire. 

Steven said the three youths did not seem to have any specific 

target in mind, they were just firing the guns. They hit the girl 

standing, too. 'I don't remember much.' 

"The following night at 11:30, a carload of youths wearing black 

opened fire on a group of people near the 2400 block of Unwin 

Road. Michael Oats and William Williams, 19, both of Cleveland, 

were hit in the legs and back by shotgun pellets. 

"Police would wait until witnesses come forward to identify the 

suspects before any charges are filed. But Steven said the identification of the suspects may pose a problem since the attackers wore 

black scarves around their faces during the attack. 

"Martin said some who saw ·�he attack identified the youths as 

members of the street gang known as the 30th Street Crips." 

On our official police report, the victim of this crime says that 

this was in retaliation to a gang fight which had taken place at 

East Technical High School a couple of days ago. This was what we 

believe the shooting was about in front of that high school. And we 

believe that at almost anytime these two gangs could clash while 

school is in session and we could have serious injury done to a 

large group of innocent people on school property. 

Thank you. 

Mr. HUGHES. Thank you very much, Chief Kovacic. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Kovacic follows:] 

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PuPARED STATDIENT OF EDWARD P. KOVACIC, CHIU OF POLICC, CITY or CLEVELAND, 

OH 

tsr. CJ'uairaan. Maaber■ of the JucUc1arr Colmitt.•e. 

Thanll ¥OU for invit.ins • NPN-ntatl•• of the Cleveland 

Dlvi■lon of Police to t•■tifv on HouN of Rapreaentatlvea Bill 

3757, the "Gwi-Free School Zone Act of 1990.· My n&M i■ Edward 

kovacic. I U\ th• Chief of Police for the C1tV of Cleveland. 

Ohio. 

''CLEVELAND CITY SOIOOLS OPEN WITH A BA?:'l." Thoee were t.he 

worde of a la��l newaca■ter commentina on the ev•nt■ of th• fir■t 

day of achool in Cleveland where Hveral ahota -�• fired in 

clo■e proxi■ity of • hiah achool. Thi• c:loNlr foll011ed an 

A\\SU■t 13th incident where ■hot■ -re fired at CJ•v•land police 

0ff1c1ra from the aaffttY of u ele1Nntary ■c:h,,ol )'ard. We 

arreated -v•n (7) anal•• and conf1•eated tire (2) hand�•. four 

(4) llhotaun• and one (1) rifle.

Sine• 1983. the Cleveland Divi■ion of Police ha■ recor�•d

two hundred and t.hree (203) incident• invalvin, the ua• of 

fireaND■ in and on achool property. In each of th•- Year■• with 

th• exception of 1985, the nwnbar of ineid•nta ha• ahown an 

1nere&ae over t.hat ef th• previou• year. �!Toh four (4) mon�he 

remainin1 in 1990, the Divi■ior. hu already recorded a eeventeen 

percent (17%) 1nc:reaee over the total number cf incident■ for .11 

of 1;ee. It is for thia rea■on t�•t Jui encouraaed to learn 

that Con,r••• ha• raoosniz.ed that i.ber• ex:l■t• • n••d t.o ena\ll"e 

the aafety of our children and teacher■ vhil• t.hey are •naaaed in 

th• vital proc••• of education and ha■ moved to addre■■ thi• need 

throu1h the Gun-Pre• School Zone• Aet of 1990. 

Ohio·s atate leai■lature, a■ with other •�•te■, 1e currer.tly 

con&iderina ■imilar le&ialation, however, this dee■ not obviate 

th• need for le1i■lation at the federal level. Firet, Oh1� #

• 

propoaal 1a restricted te achool property, thua would have lesg 

cover••• &nd apply to fewer incident• than thia Act. Further, by 

re�uirinr conaecutive nntencinc of viol•��ra. th• Gun-Free 

School Zonea Act will operate •• • areater deterrent to these 

cont-a11platin1 ar1oed criminal activity on or r,e&r echoola. 

If any motHfication were to be made tc thi ... Act, 1 wculd 

aus•••t that a specific excluaion be incor�rated which would 

exempt federal, a�•t• and local law enforceme�t officera who �re 

authorized to carr)• a f1,rearm and at th• t.ilr.• in queation actin& 

within the ■cope of tb.eir dutie■. 

ln summary, condition■ in Cleveland cannot be that different 

from the re■t of our nation·• c1tiea. You· have the power to 

re■toro confidence 1n the ability of aovernme�t to aafesuard our 

children, our nation�• lhO■t valuable re90urce. Pa■■aa• of thie 

Act will enable our children and their teacher• to travel to and 

from and attend their aohool■ without an overr1d1na fear for 

their peraonal aafety. 

Thank you for allowins me the OPPOrt��ity to expreee my 

viewe on this important aubject. 

r,1 'l 

,J.) 

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Mr. Chainnan, Hembet'• of the Jw:11c1ary Co1Dltt••· 

Thank vou for 1nvit1n1 a repreNntttive of the Cleveland 

D1viaicn o! Police to teatify on Hou•• of bpr•••ntati�•• Bill 

3757, the "Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1990. ·· Hy name ia Edward 

Iovaeic. l am the Chief of Police for the City cf Cleveland. 

Ohio. 

On the 29th o� Au,uat of this Y••r, the Cleveland Public 

School• opened. A newscaster coaDented on the opanin1 day by

atat1n8, "'Cleveland City echools open with a bans", and tl\en went 

on to relate that aeveral ehota had been fired in th• iJr.mP.diate 

area cf the i&at Technical Hich School buildine on the first day 

of aehcol. Thie ia juat one incident in e 1rowin1 number of 

incident• 1nvolvin1 

Cleveland. 

firea�m• and echoole in the City of 

Since the ¥e•� 1983, the Cleveland Division of Poliee hag 

recorded two hundred and thr•e (203) incident• involvina the uee 

of firearms in &nd on echool property. as foliows: 

YEAR INCIDENTS 

1983 21 

1984 2◄ 

1985 17 

1986 23 

1987 �7 

1see 28 

1989 29 

1990 34 

35-526 0 - 91 - 3

HANDGUN 

25 

23 

15 

22 

31 

22 

31 

38 

SHOTGUN 

2 

l 

2 

2 

4 

' 

RIFLE FAKE GUS 

1

2 

l 

34 

1 

1 

1 

l

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In each of these years, with the xception of 1985, the number of

incidents has shown an incrase over that of the previous yar.

With four (4) months remaining in 1990, the Division has already

recorded a seventeen percent (17%) increase over the total number

of incidents for all of 1989. It is for this reason and with

this tierhge of urgency that I ask that Congress act with all due

speed to ensure the safety of our children and their teachere

while engaged in the vital process of education through passage

of the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990.

In looking more closely at the incidents, it is observed

that firearms have been employed in a wide variety cf offenses in

and around schools. Such offenses as Felonious Assault,

Aggravated Robbery and Aggravated Menacing to Kidnapping and

Rape. Witness Intimidation and Child Enticement have been

recorded. In previous years, the possession and use of firearms

came to the Division's attention mainly through the investigation

of threats and assaults. In 1990, we are now recording firearms

being possessed by persons arrested in connection with the

violation of state drug law offenses in and around schools.

The predominate firearm of choice in all classes of offensee

is the handgun; however, there have been incidenta recorded

involving the use of shotguns and rifles. To illustrate, on

August 13th of this year, Cleveland police officers were firad

upon 'rem an elementary school yard. A. a result. seven (7)

males were rrested and seven firearms were confiscated. Three

of these firearms were shotguns and one was a rifle. Of the two

2

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31

hundred and three (203) incidents recorded, total of two

hundred and thirty-ons (231) firearms were used.

As in the case of Congress, the Ohio Legialature has reacted

to the school firearm problem by introducing Senate Bill 52 on

January 24. 1989. Senate Bill 52 makes it a second degree felony

punishable upon conviction for a period of incarceration of 2, 3.

4 or 5 years to 15 years for anyone found in possession of a

firearm on wohool premises. It differs from the Gun-Free School

Zone Act in that it applies only to firearm possession in schools

or on school premises. A. the Oun-Free School Zone Act

establishes a "zone" which extends 1000 feet in any direction

from the school, its coverage is broader and would more directly

address the problem of "pushers" attempting to solicit drug sales

among children in areas adjacent to schooi property while in

possession of a firearm.

In addition to covering a wider geograph:c area than Senate

Bill 52 and therefore providing law enforcement with an

additional weapon against armed pushers whc would attempt to

market their poison to children while proceeding to nd from

school, the Act-n provision which requires that the term of

imprisonment shall run consecutive to -any other term of

imprisonment imposed under any other provision of law" will serve

as potent deterrent to those who may contemplate engaging in

armed criminal activity in and around schools. And for those who

are not deterred and ar arrested and convicted, the aggregate

period of incarceration for state and federal offenses will keep

3

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32

them from committing any ubsequent or like offenses for

considerable period of time.

If I might. I can suggest but one modification to this Act

which would clarify the exceptions to the law's coverage. While

providing protection in and around schools, this Act, as drafted,

will not -Interfere with the lawful activitiee of anyons otherwise

entitled to possess a firearm. Through explicit language, the

Act excludes private residences. school security officers and

those legally transporting firearms. It does not, however.

specifically xempt federal, state or local law enforcement

officers who are authorized tc carry a firarn and who at the

time in question are acting within the scope of their duties. An

examination of Chapter 44. Title le, Section 525 reveals language

excepting firearms imported for, sold or shipped to, or insuen

for the uso, of po:Atical subdivisions from coverage under Chapter

44. The Gun-Free School Zones Act will fall within Chapter 44,

but deals with possession and use of a firearm while the

remaining provisions of Chapter 44 deals with firearms

importation and transactions. 7he inclusion of epecific language

in the Act which excludes law enforcement officers acting within

the scope of their duties would leave no doubt as to the Act's

intended coverage.

If the Gun-Free School Zones Act is enacted into law,

would promulgate a directive which would require that in each

case of a person being found in possession cf a firarm in, on,

or within 1000 feet of any school that the local field office of

4

37

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33

the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms be advised so that

the matter may be prepared for presentation to the U.S.

Attorney.

In ummary, conditions in Cleveland cannot be that different

from the rest of our nation's cities. Over the past seven (7)

years.. we have seen a marked virtually continuous rise in the

number of incidents involving firearms in or round school

property. It is almost as if the purpose of our schools has

changed; from a place devoted to education and preparing for the

future to an open matketplace for drug dealers and thoss that

prey upon chiidren. Thrtrefore, I urge you ts act promptly end

favorably consider passage of the Gun-Free Sohool Zones Act of

1990. You have the power to restore confidence in the ability of

government to safeguard our children our nation's most valuable

resource. Passage of this Act will enable our children and their

teachers to travel to and from and attend their chccAs without

en overriding fear for their personal safety.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Judiciary

Committee, for allowing me the opportunity to express ry views on

this important subject.

5

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50

a)

30

445

L_

20

10

0

21

City of Cleveland

Gun Involvements on School Property

24 23

27 28 29

17

1983 1984 1985 1986 198 / 1988

+14% -29% +35% +17% +4%

Percent of Change

.3?

34

1989 1990

+4% +17%

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50

40

30

20

10

City of Cleveland

Gun Involvements on School Property

1 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990

4 0

Year

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Cit,y of Cleveland

Gun Involvements on School Property

50

40

30

25 25

20

10

0

1943 1144

24

17

45

32

111111 111111

1995 141111 1097 19611 1999

Year

44

Handgu n S otgun Rif le Fa ke g un Un known

1983

1984

1985

1984

1987

1988

1909

1990

25

23

15

22

31

22

31

38

2

12

2

2

4

12

1

3

11

1

1 41

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37

Mr. HUGHES. Ms. Lautrnan, welcome. Likewise, we have your

statement, we hope you can summarize.

STATEMENT OF BARBARA LAUTMAN, DIRECTOR, CENTER TO

PREVENT HANDGUN VIOLENCE, WASHINGTON, DC

MS. LAUTMAN. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. for inviting us to testify teday on H.R. 3757. As you know, the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence is a nonprofit education awl research organization. While we do not advocate passage of specific legislation or endorse specific legislation,

we appreciate the invitation to discuss the epidemic of guns in and

around our Nation's schools, and to share with this subcommittee

our research on the issue.

We commend the subcommittee and you, Mr. Chairman, for your

efforts in this area, and I especially want to thank Congressman

Feighan for his extraordinary work toward reducing gun .iiolence

in this country. As children across the country return to school this week, they

are facing a crisis in education that has reached epidemic propor-

:ions. While parents have always worried about their children's

education and their ability to read, write f ind do basic mathematics, many are horrified by a new threat: they fear their children

may not come home from school at all.

Today's children and teenagers are at greater risk of handgun

death and irejury than any other previous ge7,3ration of American

youth. Last tall, the Centers for Disease Control Lssued a study that

found that 1 of every 10 youngsters who died in 1987 was killed

with a gun. A recent study by a leeder of the American Academy of Pediatrics found that gunshot wounds increased 300 percent among

urban youth from 1986 until 1.988. In a statistical analysis of youth homicide which the Center released recently found that 1989 was the record year for gun murders among youngsters 19 and under. In fact, gun murders of

youngsters have increased 97 percent sce 1984.

Our Nation's schools, once thought to be safe havens, have fallen

victim to this increase in gun violence, and educators a: children

are caught in the crossfire. One old, but true, education adage goes,

"Schools are reflemions of their communities."

As we worked on a new study on gun violence that we have

issued today, one fact berame very clear. If a community suffers

from gun violence, its school children also suffer.

Even children playing in schoolyards and sitting in classrooms

are no longer safe from gorishot death and injury. In Houston, a

17-year-old was wounded as he turned in a math test, and dozens of

other students dove for cover when gunfire erupted outside Booker

T. Washington High School. Lindberg Junior High School in Long Beach, CA, another school

frequently sprayed by random gunfire from the neighboring community, constructed a 10-foot-high, 300-foot-long concrete wall to

protect teachers and students.

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38

Here in the Washington area, a 17-year-old student was shot in

the stomach while trying to break up a fight among outsiders at Fairmont Heights Senior High School in Hyattsville. The sad fact is that America's drug wars are being fought in and

around our Nation's schools. In two separate incidents, two stu- dents were murdered by gang members in front of hundreds of stu- dents in Detroit and Fort Lauderdale during the first day of school

in 1988.

In April of this year, a 16-year-old student was wounded as he

sat on his own front porch when gunfire erupted among rival gang members across the street at an El Paso, TX, high school. In California, the only State that publishes annual data on gun

confiscations in school, the number of gun incidents increased 40 percent in the 1988-89 school year over the previous year. In the

last 4 years, a 100-percent increase ih.,s reported. Other jurisdictions all across the country are experiencing similar increases in

gun confiscations among our Nation's schools. Our newest research shows that school shootings or hostage takings have occurred in 35 States and the District of Columbia during

the oast 4 school years. During this same period, 71 children, edu- cators, and other school employees have been shot and killed in

school, and 200 others have been wounded. Another 242 students

and school employees were held hostage at gunpoint. Seventy-five percent of the time, the weapon of choice was a handgun. We have also seen an increase in gun violence involving adults

in our Nation's schools. An estranged husband of a teacher in Texas shot his wife and raped two teachers in front of 100 pre- school students. Upset by a fight involving their daughters, moth- ers of two third grade girls carried guns on an elementary campus and shot each other and one of the children.

A 19-year-old man walked into an elementary school in Green- wood, SC, opened fire on a third grade class, killing two students and wounding seven others. Equally shocking is the fact that students themselves are com- mitting many of these crimes. What's causing this epidemic? Gun violence in schools we believe is fueled by any number of

reasons: Drugs, poverty, low self-esteem, lack of parental supervi- sion and interest, increased glorification of guns in the movies, and many kids' attitudes that having a gun will unlock many doors. Guns allow them to do anything that they wish and go any place

they want. One other fact that must not be overlookedthe sheer availability of guns in America. For every household in the country there

e two Funs in the hands of private citizens. Studies done on the

availability of guns to children and teenagers show that kids have

little or no trouble getting these weaponsmost often from their own homes.

A report issued by the Florida School Boards Association found

that 86 percent of the weapons confiscated from students came

from stuaents' own homes.

Our research that we conducted wl-th parents and students in Dade County, FL, revealed that mcot children of gun-owning par- ents believe they could take their parents' guns without detection

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39

because those weapons were kept unlocked and loaded. Parents

agreed. We at the center believe that we can take action to reduce this

threat to our children's lives. We feel we need to educate children

about the dangers of carrying handguns and the seriousness of

such offenses. We need to help parents understand their critical

role in protecting their children by educating adults on the need to

lock up guns in the home. And, we need gun-wielding individuals,

whether student or adult, to understand the serious consequences

of gunplay. Our research with 16 classrooms of students in Dade County, FL,

found that students do fear punishment for carrying weapons. It's

interesting to note also that many students reported a fear of ex- pulsion for bringing guns into the school and, therefore, told us

that many guns were Limply locked in students' cars, loaded and

ready for use, before school, after school, and during breaks. Surveys have found that adults, too, fear swift and sure punish- ment for breaking the law. In sum, gun offenders in and around

schools do fear strong penalties, and this would suggest to us that enactment of this legislation could well have a strong impact on

the use of guns in and around our schools and could well reduce

the viol once.

We all know that our children can't learn basic skills that are

necessary for adulthood if they attempt to learn in an environment

of fear. Rather than concentrating on English, math, and the sci- ences, many students are learning other lessonslessons in basic

survival. "You have to be careful in the hallways and who you mess with, because you don't know if they're carrying a gun or

not," said an Omaha, NE, high school student. A Baltimore student recently told a newspaper, "You've got to be preparedpeople shoot you for your coat, your rings, your chains,

anything."

In an era where schools teach students the old nuclear war duckand-cover drills to protect them from gunfire coming from the city

streets, where schools in. 15 States search students with metal detectors, and where an increasirm number of school systems are using gun sniffing dogs and SWAT teams, strong, effective action is necessary. We cannot tolerate our children dying in ever-increasing numbers. We cannot sit by while America's drug war is being

fought in our schoolyards. We again commend the subcommittee for airing this problem

and for searching for effective solutions. We feel we must make it known to drug dealers, armed and dangerous students, gang mem- bers and school intruders, that bringing guns into or around

schools will be treated with swift punishment. Our students in

schools are our future. If we don't act now, America's future may be filled with the constant crackle of gunfire and the sounds of

frightened students diving beneath their desks for cover.

Thank you. Mr. HUGHES. Thank you very much, Ms. Lautman. [The prepared statement of Ms. Lautman followsl

4 4

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40

CE\-111: 11) PUNE. \i FI:1 \IX ;UN V101 [ACE

TESTIMONY BEFORE THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES'

COMMITTEE ON ME JUDICIARY

SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME

September 6, 1990

BY

BARBARA 144UTMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

CENTER TO PREVENT HANDGUN VIOLENCE

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for inviting us to testify today on H.R. 3757, the Gun-Free

School Zones Act of 1990. As you know, the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence is a

nonprofit, education, research, and legal action organization located here in Washington,

D.C. While we do not advocate passage of specific legislation, we appreciate the invitation

to discuss the epidemic of guns in and around our nation's schools and to share with this

committee our research on the issue. The Center commends the Subcommittee and you,

Mr. Chairman, for your efforts in this area.

As children across the country return to school this week, they are facing a crisis in

education that has reached epidemic proportions. While parents have always worried about

their children's education and their abilities to read, write and do basic mathematics, many

are also becoming horrified by a new threat. They fear that their children may not come

home from school.

Today's children and teenagers are at greater risk of handgun death and injury than any

previous generation of American youth. Last fall, the Centers for Disease Control's

National Center for Health Statistics issued a study that found that one of every ten

youngsters who died in 1987 was killed with a gun. A recent study by a leader of the

American Academy of Pediatrics found that gunshot wounds increased 300 percent among

urban youth from 1986-88. A statistical analysis of youth homicide that the Center to

Prevent Handgun Violence recently issued found that 1989 was a record year for gun

murders among youngsters, 19 and under. In fact, gun murders of youngsters have

increased 97 percent since 1984.

Our nation's schools, once thought to be safe havens, have fallen victim to this increase in

gun violence, and educators and children are caught in the cross fire. One old, but true,

education adage goes, "Schools are reflections of their communities." This is particularly

true in this issue. As we worked on a new study on gun violence in schools that we are

issuing today, one fact became very dear. If a community suffers from gun violence, its

schoolchildren also suffer.

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41

Even children playing in schoolyards and sitting in classrooms are no longer safe from

gunshot death and injury. In Houston, a 17-year-old was wounded as he turned in a math

test, and dozens of other students in the second-story classroom dove for cover when gunfire

erupted outside Booker T. Washington High School Lindberg Junior High in Long Beach,

California, another school frequently sprayed by random gunfire from the neighboring

community, constructed a 10-foot-high, 300-foot-long concrete wall to protect teachers and

students. Here in the Washington metropolitan area, a 17-year-old student was shot in the

stomach while trying to break up a fight among outsiders at Fairmont Heights Senior High

in Hyattsville.

The sad iact is that America's drug wars are being fought in and around our nation's

schools. In two separate incidents, two students were murdered by gang members in front

of hundreds of students in Detroit and Fort Lauderdale during the first day of school in

1988. In April of this year, a 16-year-old student was wounded as he sat on his own front

porch when gunfire erupted among rival gang members across the street at an El Paso,

Texas, high school.

Based on a national survey of students, the National School Safety Center estimated that

135,000 boys carried guns to school daily in 1987. An estimated 270,000 others carried guns

to school at least once during the year.

In California, the only state that publishes annual data on gun confiscations in school, the

number of gun incidents increased 40 percent in the 1988-89 school year over the previous

year. In the last four years, a 100 percent overall increase was reported, including a 50

percent rise in elementary schools and 80 percent increase in middle schools. The increase

at the high school level was 142 percent.

In Florida, a 42 percent increase in gun incidents was reported during the 1987-88 school

year. The Chicago Public Schools reported a 50 percent rise in gun incidents in 1988.

Hundreds of other school systemsfrom the Seattle, Washington, school district to the

Charlotte-Mecklenburg school system in North Carolinahave reported similar trends. In

Little Rock, Arkansas, three school shootings were reported in a one-month period in early

1989. The shootings were the first ever in the city's schools.

Our newest research shows that school shootings or hostage takings have occurred in 35

states and the District of Columbia during the past four school years. During this same

period, 69 children, educators, and other school employees have been shot and killed in

school, and 190 others have been wounded.

A student in Woodbridge, Virginia, was shot because he was walking down the hall with a

girlfriend of a former student. An estranged husband of a teacher in Texas shot his wife

and raped two other teachers in front of 100 preschool students. Upset by a fight involving

their daughters, mothers of two third-grade girls carried guns on to an elementary school

campus and shot each other and one of the children. A 19-year-old man walked into an

elementary school in Greenwood, South Carolina, and opened fire on a third-grade class,

killing two students and wounding seven others.

2

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42

Equally shocking is the fact thzt smdents themselves are committing many of these crimes.

We all remember the horrifying Stockton shootings and the terrible crimes committed by

Laurie Dann in Winnetka, Illinois. But, what seems to go unnoticed is the tragic toll gun

violence committed by youngsters is taking on schoolchildren and educators.

An eight-year-old student in New Jersey pulled a gun on a teacher because he wanted to

be promoted. A 12-year-old Missouri boy shot and killed a daumate in class because he

was tired of being teased about his weight. A 15-year-old student in Norfolk, Virginia,

killed one teacher and wounded another before his assault weapon jammed as he tried to

shoot into a classroom full of third-grade students. A 10-year-old Texas boy, caught

skipping school, reportedly murdered the school bus driver that caught him and returned

him to schooL A 14-year-old student in Phoenix held her teacher and 13 other students

hostage at gunpoint after getting into a fight with her girlfriend. And, a seven-year-old boy

threatened two first-grade girls with a loaded gun in Lakeland, Florida.

Nearly 70 percent of the school shootings and hostage situations we examined in this study

were committed by youngsters either youngsters who are students at the schools or other

youngsters who come onto or near school campuses.

What's causing this epidemic? Gun violence in schools is fueled by any number of reasons -

- drugs, poverty, low self-esteem, lack of parental supervision and interest, increased

glorification of guns in the movies, and many kids' warped "make my day" attitudes about

life. Many youngsters look at guns as the key to unlocking many doors in their minds,

guns allow them to do anything they wish and go any place they want.

One other factor must not be overlooked the sheer availability of guns in America. For

every household in the country there are two guns in the hands of private citizens. Studies

done on the availability of guns to children and teenagers show that youngsters have little

or no trouble getting these weapons most often from their own homes. In fact, a report

issued by the Florida School Boards Association found that 86 percent of the weapons

confiscated from students in 1986-88 came from students' homes. Our research with

students and parents in Dade County, Florida, revealed that most children of gun-owning

parents believe they could take their parents' guns- without detection. Parents agreed. A

study by a Baltimore County grand jury found that one-third of the students knew where

their parents kept guns and the vast majority could take the guns without their parents ever

knowing.

We at the Center believe that we can take action to reduce this threat to our children's

lives. We need to educate children about the dangers of canying handguns and the

seriousness of such offenses. We need to help parents understand their critical role in

protecting their children by educating adults on the need to lock up guns in the home.

And, we need gun-wielding individuals, whether student or adult, to understand the serious

consequences of gunplay.

Our research with 16 classrooms in Dade County, Florida, found that students do fear

punishment for carrying weapons. Surveys have found that adults too, fear swift and sure

punishment for breaking the law. In sum, gun offenders in and around schools do fear

3

4 "1

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43

strong penalties. This would suggest to us that enactment of this legislation could well have

a strong impact on the use of guns in and around our schools. And, could well reduce the

violence.

We all know that our children cannot learn basic skills that are necessary for adulthood if

they attempt to learn in an environment of fear. Rather than concentrating on English,

math, and the sciences, many students are learning other lessons lessons in basic survival.

"You have to be careful in the halls and who you mess with, because you don't know if

they're canying a gun or not," said an Omaha, Nebraska, high school student. A Baltimore

student said, "You gotta be prepared people shoot you for your coat, your rings, chains,

anything."

In an era where schools teach students the old nuclear war duck-and-cover drills to protect

them from gunfire, where schools in 15 states search students with metal detectors, and

where an increasing number of school systems are using gun sniffing dogs and school SWAT

teams, strong, effective action is necessary. We cannot tolerate our children dying in everincreasing numbers. We cannot sit by while America's drug war is being fought in our

schoolyards.

We commend this Subcommittee for airing this problem and for searching for effective

solutions. We must make it known to drug dealers, armed and dangerous students, and

school intruders that bringing guns into or around schools will be treated with swift, severe

punishment Our schools and students are our future. If we don't act now, America's

future may be filled with the constant crackle of gunfire and the sounds of frightened

students diving under desks for cover.

4

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44

Mr. HUGHES. Mr. Packer, we welcome you.

STATEMENT OF JOEL PACKER. LEGISLATIVE SPECIALIST, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION AND NATIONAL PTA, WASHINGTON, DC

Mr. PACKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am Joel Packer, a legislative specialist for the National Education Association, which represents 2 million education employees around the country. On behalf of the NEA and the 6.8 million member National Parent-Teacher Association, which has also endorsed this statement, I appreciate the opportunity to speak on the

pressing need to assure the safety of America's school children. The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990, we believe, is directly

tied to the national goals in education, recently endorsed by Presi- dent Bush and the Nation's Governors. Goal six states, "By the year 2000, every school in America will be free of drugs and violence and will offer a disciplined environment conducive to

learning." The threat of gunfire impedes more than the accomplishment of

the national goal in education dealing with safety. The threat of violence is a significant factor in the dropout rate, the stress relat- ed to fear of violence threatens the educational goals related to stu- dent achievement, and fear of violence impedes the ability of schools to attract and retain qualified school personnel. Each month some 5,200 secondary schoolteachers are assaulted

at school; about 282,000 secondary school students are physically

attacked at school.

In 1989, some 5,600 Americans under the age of 19 were killed with firearmsmore than 15 children each day. A number of schools in California, including Los Angeles, Long Beach and Oakland, have scheduled "yellow code alerts" from kin- dergarten up, in which students are taught to hit the deck when

bullets start flying. The problem of guns in the schools has reached alarming

proportions:

Between 1988-89 and 1989-90 school year, the Los Angeles public

schools experienced a 36-percent increase in assaults with a deadly weapon against students. Over the same period, the number of guns recovered by school officials in Los Angeles rose by 29 percent. Across the Nation, thousands of guns are confiscated from stu- dents each year in diverse places around the country. In fact, in

1987-88, Miami; Jacksonville, FL; Portland and Detroit all reported more gun confiscations per 10,000 students than Los Angeles did. The incidence of the possession and discharge of firearms on

school grounds and environs are not limited to the "combat zones" of urban ghettos. In every State, in communities of every size, in

schools with populations of all socioeconomic strata, gun-related in- cidents in the schools can and do occur.

My written statement goes through several anecdotes from

States around the country: Alabama, Georgia, Arizona, Ohio, and

others of gun and shooting incidents in the schools.

4 9

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45

The National School Safety Center estimates that more than 5.5

million boys and 3.2 million girls have access to handguns. And as

we have already heard, 135,000 boys carry guns to school on a daily

basis.

The Census Bureau's National Crime Survey reported that 3 million incidents of street crimeassault, robbery, rape, and theft

took place in schools or on school campuses during 1986. NEA and PTA strongly support this legislation that would send

a strong signal nationwide that it is not acceptable for students,

staff, or adults and youth not connected with the school to carry

firearms on school grounds or in the vicinity of the school.

This measure, which passed the Senate unanimously, is part of

the omnibus crime billthanks to the efforts of Senator Kohl

builds on the success of the drug-free school zones. This proposed

law will not, by itself, stop the threat of violence in schools or in

our society in general. However, it would be a significant step for- ward in efforts to protect the safety of young people on school

grounds. Many other education groups have endorsed the bill, including

the American Association of School Administrators, the Council of

Chief State School Officers, the Council of Great City Schools, the

National Association of Elementary School Principals, and the National School Boards Association.

Preservation of school .,afety must be a national priority. Gun- free school zones would be a significant tool in the hands of law

enforcement officials assuring serious penalties for those who

knowingly and carelessly carry or discharge firearms on school

grounds or the immediate vicinity. The Gun-Free School Zones Act would be most effective in conjunction with enactment of two other legislative measures currently under consideration in this Congress: (1) Legislation to limit the

sale, manufacture, and distribution of assault weaponsalso

passed by the Senate as part of the crime bill and already reported

by the House Judiciary Committeeand (2) the Handgun Waiting Period Act, known as the Brady bill, also passed by the House Judiciary Committee and awaiting House floor action. NEA and PTA are actively working to secure passage of both of

these bills.

Together, we can eliminate violence in the schools. We appreci- ate Representative Feighan's leadership in introducing this measure and look forward to its enactment.

Thank you. Mr. FEIGHAN [presiding]. Thank you very much, Mr. Packer, for

your testimony. We appreciate it. [The prepared statement of Mr. Packer follows:]

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46

PREPARED STATEMENT or JOEL PACKER, LEGNIAnve SPECIALIST, NATIONAL

EDUCATION ASSOCIATION AND NATIONAL PTA, WASHINGTON, DC

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee:

I am Joel Packer, a legislative specialist for the

National Education Association, which represents 2 million

professional and classified education employees in the

nation.'s elementary, secondary, vocational, and

postsecondary schools. On behalf of the NEA and the 6.8

million-member National PTA, which has endorsed this

statement, I appreciate the opportunity to comment on th&

pressing need to assure the safety of America's

schoolchildren.

This Subcommittee is now considering legislation, the

Gun-Free School Zones AO- of 1990, H.R. 3757, that is

directly tied to the National Goals in Education, endorsed

by President Bush and the nation's governors. Goal 6

states, "By the year 2000, every school in America will be

free of drugs and violence and will offer a disciplined

environment conducive to learning."

The threat of gunfire impedes more than the

accomplishment of the national goal in education dealing

with safety. The threat of violence is a significant factor

in the dropout rate, the stress related to fear of violence

threatens the education goals related to student

achievement, and fear o! violence impedes the ability of

schools to attract and retain qualified school personnel.

Each month, some 5,200 secondary school teachers are

assaulted at school; about 282,000 secondary school students

are physically attacked at school. In 1989, some 5,600

Americans under the age of 19 were killed with firearms --

more than 15 children each day. Surely, the sheer volume of

guns in the U.S. increases the likelihood that young people

will obtain and use them. The more people who have guns,

including children in the lementary grades, the more people

believe they must carry guns in self-defense.

A number of schools in California, including Los

Angeles, Long Beach, and Oakland, have scheduled "yellowcode alerts" from kindergartfin up, in which -students are

taught to hit the deck when bullets fly.

According to an article in Tin magazine last year,

Fred Busher, the head of the Stockton, California, school

district's psychology staff says students "realize now that

school is not the safe place it used to be and that

something terrible can happen at any instant." Students in

Chicago, New York, Miami, and elsewhere are exhibiting signs

5 1

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47

2

of "post-traumatic stress syndrome." Young children exposed

to violence in the schools and in the neighborhood have

become numb -- seemingly immune to sights of brutality in

the same way as the children of Belfast, Beirut, or

Johannesburg.

The problem of guns in the schools has reached alarming

proportions:

Between 1988-89 and 1989-90, Los Angeles Public Schools

experienced a 36 percent increase in assaults with a

deadly weapon against students, from 278 to 379.

Over the same period, the nuabor of guns recovered by

school officials rose 29 percent, from 274 to 354. By

comparison, only 93 guns were confiscated in 1987-88.

Across the nation, thousands of guns are confiscated

from students each year in such places as Cleveland;

Houston; Jacksonville, Florida; Philadelphia; Portland,

Oregon; Atlanta; Durham; and Bridgeport, Connecticut.

In 1987-88, Miami, .T.-Inksonville, Portland, and Detroit

reported more gun cc...ifiscations per 10,000 students

than Los Angeles.

The incidence of the possession and discharge of

firearms on school grounds and environs are not limited to

the "combat zones" of urban ghettos. In every state, in

communities of every size, in schools with populations of

all socioeconomic strata, gun-related incidents in the

schools can and do occur.

In Birmingham, Alabama, a seventh-grader was wounded

when a handgun fell off his desk at Glenn Middle

School.

In Macon, Georgia, a 17-year-old rAccidentally wounded

himself while unloading a handgun in a Central High

restroom.

In Phoenix, Arizona, an eighth-grader held her teacher

and 13 classmates hostage for an hour at Cholla Junior

High.

In Orange, Ohio, a kindergartner took a loaded gun to

Moreland Hills Elementary and told his teacher, "I

brought something to school to show people, and I'd

like you to se it."

In Dolton, Illinois, a frshman at Thornridge High

School shot a math teacher.

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48

3

In De Kalb, Missouri, a 12-year-old, tired of being

teased about his weight, killed a classmate and himself

at Do Kalb High School.

In Hackensack, New Jersey, a 16-year-old was killed

following a regional basketball game. On the same day,

another regional final was played without spectators in

a secret location after threats of violence.

The National School Safety Center estimates that more

than 5.5 million boys and 3.2 million girls have access to

handguns. Almost 1 million boys carried a knife to school

daily, and 135,000 boys carried a gun to school daily.

According to the Census Bureau's National Crime Survey,

12- to 19-year-olds are more likely to be victims of crime

than any other segment of the population.

One in six youths was the victim of street crime,

compared with about one in nine adults.

One of every 18 young people was assaulted, robbed, or

raped in 1986 -- more than double the rate for adults.

Of the 1.6 million attempted or completed crimes

against juveniles, 40,000 were rapes, 230,000 were

robberies, 450,000 were aggravated assaults, and

875,000 were simple assaults.

Only about one-third of all violent crimes committed

against youths were reported to police.

The Census Bureau also reported that 3 million

incidents of "street crime" -- assault, robbery, rape, and

theft -- took place in schools or on campuses during 1986.

Anecdotal evidence would indicate the numbers will be much

higher for all of 1990.

NEA and PTA strongly support proposed legislation that

would send a strong signal nationwide that it is not

acceptable for students, staff, or adults and youth not

connected with the school to carry firearms on school

grounds or in the vicinity of a school. This measure, which

passed the Senate as part of the omnibus crime bill, S. 1970

-- thanks to the efforts of Sen. Kohl -- builds on the

success of the Drug-Free School Zones. This proposed law

will not, by itself, stop the threat of violence in schools

or in our society in general. However, it would be a

significant step forward in efforts to protect the safety of

young people on school grounds.

Many other education groups have endorsed the bill,

including the American Association of School Administrators,

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Council of Chief State School Officers, Council of Great

City Schools, Nacional Association of Elementary School

Principals, and the National School Boards Association.

The bill would make it unlawful for any individual

knowingly to possess a firearm ata place that the

individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a

public schosi zone.

Preservation of school safety must be a national

priority. Gun-Free School Zones would be a significant tool

in the hands of law enfork.Iment leficials assuring serious

penalties for those who knowingly and carelessly bring

firearms on to school grounds or their immediate vicinity.

The legislation is carefully crafted with exceptions for

persons who own or carry firearms in their own home,

unloaded and locked up in their own vehicle, or other

legitimate circumstances.

The Gun-Free School Zones Act would be most effective

in conjunction with two other legislative measures under

consideration in this Congress: 1) legislation to limit the

sale, manufacture, and distribution of assault weapons,

passed by the Senate as part of S. 1970, the omnibus

anticrime legislation; and 2) the Handgun Waiting Period

Act, H.R. 467, known as the Brady bill, passed by this

committee in July. NEA and PTA are actively working to

secure passage of both of these bills.

Together, we can eliminate violence in the schools. we

appreciate Representative Feighan's leadership in

introducing this measure, and pledge to support this

Subcommittee in efforts to see its enactment.

Thank you.

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Mr. FEIGHAN. Finally on the panel, Dr. Mark Widome.

STATEMENT OF MARK D. WIDOME, M.D., ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR

OF PEDIATRICS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE

OF MEDICINE, HERSHEY, PA. ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN

ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS, WASHINGTON, DC

Dr. WIDOME. Thank you very much, Mr. Feighan. Thank you for

inviting the American Academy of Pediatrics to testify before this panel. My name is Mark Widome. I am a pediatrician from Her- shey PA. I am testifying today on behalf of the American Academy of Pediatrics, whose 39 o°0 members are committed to protecting

children irom preventable injuries. Of course we're here today to underscore the academy's strong

support of the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. Firearms are a growing problem for our children and your subcommittee is to be

applauded for focusing sharper public attention on this problem. Every year in the United States approximately 3,000 children

and adolescents die as a result of gunshot injuries. It's a mix of homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings. In addition, there

is an unknown but very large number of children who are seriously

injured, often irreversibly, but who survive. It's estimated that in addition to the 10 gun deaths each day of children and adolescents, there are 30 or 40 who are wounded. One

in every 25 admissions to American Pediatric Trauma Centers is due to gunshot wounds; in fact, 10 or 11 percent of all pediatric deaths are due to firearms.

For inner-city black adolescent boys and young men, firearms are the leading cause of death in this country. I hope this hearing will mark the beginning of the end of this disastrous story. The legislation which we're discussing today would make the children's environments safer. Guns have no business being near children as they play in their homes, as they visit

their friends, or as they endeavor to study in school. We adults must do all we can to ensure that guns do not come in

contact with our children. But saying that guns do not belong in

your schools is not enough. Guns near and in schools are coming

from somewhere, mild by all indications they're mostly coming from

homes. Keeping guns away from schools must be just one part of getting guns entirely out of the environments of children. In listening to some of the stories of Stockton, CA, and Win- netka, IL, we may be misled to believe that this is a problem that's

just a matter of controlling a handful of deranged and disturbed in- dividuals. But this is clearly not the case. We'vo heard evidence this morning that it's a widespread problem. In fact, we could call it an epidemic. But it's an epidemic

that's being spread by people that are more like you and me than we might care to admit. Guns, in fact, are a part of our entire

society. Some say there are 100 million guns out there. Some say there

are 200 million. We don't really know. But they are used; they are bought casually. It's a state of affairs that's absolutely too shocking

to citizens of the rest of the industrialized world. It's a problem of epidemic proportions.

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Now it's not an epidemic of typhoid, scarlet fever, or polio. or diphtheriagratefully, those are relics of the past. Yet the effect is

the same and the epidemic is contagious and it's spreading. It's in- cubating in our towns and in our cities where the casual use of guns ta.ts everyday instruments of business and negotiation status, and the means of settling differences, are turning our school chil- dren into victims. They don't even know what's happeaing. We as a societyphysicians, educators, legislators, parents and

grandparentswe're all called upon to make some sense out of this

senseless waste of young lives. The position of the American Academy of Pediatrics on this issue

is very clear. Based on our background in public health and pre- ventive medicine, we conclude that children simply cannot coexist

in the same environment with firearms.

Children living in an environment with deadly weapons may die of gunfireaccidental or intentionalas surely as children playing

in the street will be run over by cars, and as surely as children

swimming during a thunderstorm will be hit by lightning. A public health principle that has withstood the test of time is

that you must separate in time and space children and the things

that will surely harm them. It's true for the measles virus, it's true

for drain cleaner, it's true for a contaminated supply of drinking water, and it's true for guns. Every other solution for the problem of gun violationand heav- ens knows, there have been no shortage of suggestions for how we might keep guns and keep our children, tooevery other solution

ignores this very basic principle. By ignoring this principle we are

sacrificing 10 children and adolescents today, tomorrow, and the next day. The question has been raisedand in fact, alluded to this morningwhether or not the limiting of guns from some geographic en- vironments would begin to impinge upon our personal freedoms. We say that it does notit does not if you will accept that with

freedom comes responsibility. Indeed, a safe society requires that we accept controls. We control automobile driving on our high- ways. We specify who can drive and under what conditions. We specify the kind of electrical wiring we can install in our homes. Copper is OK; aluminum is not. We specify what kinds of toys can be sold to our children. Those

that pose a choking hazard, those that have sharp edges, and those

that are painted with lead paint are restricted. In fact, some of

these toys may be far more difficult to find than to purchase a

handgun. Are we restricting personal freedom when we deny people access

to unpasteurized milk? Because we choose not to live with tuberculosis, we accept controls. And now we're called upon to decide whether we choose to live with brain injuries, paralyzed arms and legs of children; whether we choose with a morning newspaper that routinely reports 8- and

10-year-olds who have been gunned down on their way to school. Last year, the academy called together 30 experts from fields of medicine, public health, the law, and so forth, as well as pareilts of victims. Aye met in Chicago at a forum sponsored by the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. I can tell you that the central concluCase 1:23-cr-00010-MAC-ZJH Document 22-3 Filed 02/07/23 Page 56 of 93 PageID #: 296
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sion reached by that panel was that widespread availability of guns

is the singk factor most responsible for childhood deaths from

gunfire. It was determined and recommended that in incremental steps, if necessary, we as a society must begin to separate children from

guns. If we're going to take this problem seriously, if we believe that our kids are worth saving, isn't the schoolyard, the school bus, the classroom and the lunchroom, aren't these appropriate places to

start?

Isn't it time to send a message that we care enough about our childrenwhite children, black children, Hispanics, rich, poor we'll insist on separating them from weapons because these are barbaric relics of a less civilized society. Let me conclude by making a plea for the need for continuing to collect dataand I think that was also mentioned earlier this

morning. The data is scarce and sketchy. It's important that we keep records. It would be our recommendation that gun violence in

schools, and particularly in our school systems, be a reportable

event, much the way measles and AIDS are reportable diseases. It would be reasonable, for example, to add to the legislation

under consideration today, a requirement for schools to record and

report how often guns appear, and how often someone gets hurt. A

steady flow of this information would help keep us working on the

task at hand.

The greatest tragedy is that firearm deaths are among tht most preventable of all childhood fatalities. Were guns not so readily

available, most of these deaths would be avoided.

Pediatricians are prepared to support your leadership and that of

this subcommittee to ensure that further preventable firearm

deaths and disabling injuries do not befall our children simply be- cause we lack the political will to protect them. Thank you very much. I'll be happy to answer any questions. Mr. FEIGHAN. Thank you very much, Doctor. And I want to

thank all the members of this panel for their very helpful

testimony.

[The prepared statement of Dr. Widome follows:]

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PREPARED STATEMENT OF MARK D. WIDOME, M.D., ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF PEDIATRICS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSM COLLEGE or MEDICINE, HERSHEY, PA, ON

BEHALF OF THZ AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS, WASHINGTON, DC

mr. Chairman, my name is Mark D. Widome, M.D., and I am an associate

professor of pediatrics at the Pennsylvania State University College of

Medicine in Hershey, Pennsylvania. In addition to my full-time

practice of general academic pediatrics, I am also chairman of the

American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Injury and Poison

Prevention. I appreciate the opport-nity to appear today on behalf of

the Academy, whose 39,000 pediatricians have a longstanding and deep

commitment to protect infants, children and adolescents from

preventable injuries.

More specifically, I am here of course to underscore the Academy's

strong support of the "Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990" (H.R.3757),

which is sponsored by your colleague, Rep. Edward Feighan (D-Ohio).

Children and firearms are a growing problem in our society, end the

subcommittee is to be applauded for focusing sharper public attention

on this devastating area of childhood injury which too often goes

unmentioned. Under the "cloak" of Constitutional guarantees, our

children are being injured and worae--they are losing their lives and

their futures.

Relevant statistics offer little promise. For black adolescents and

young men, particularly, firearm injuries are the leading cause of

death. Overall, an estimated 135,000 students Tarried handguns to

school daily in 1987, and another 270,000 carried handguns to school at

least once, based on a survey of 11,000 students. Nearly 8.7 million

children and adolescents have access to handguns. Florida reported a

42-percent increase in gun incidents in schools auring 1987-88, and 86

percent of the guns that were traced came from the students homes.

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California schools reported a 43-percent increase in student gun

confiscations in middle schools, and a 50-percent increase in high

schools over the past three years.

I hope this hearing will mark the beginning of the end of this

disastrous cycle. Thousands of children carry guns to school each

year; chi)dren are killed in schools by handguns and in school yards by

semiautomatic weapons; major urban trauma centers are reporting an

increase of 300 percent in the numbers of children treated for gunshot

wounds; and young children are being shot in re aliation for the gang

activities of their older siblings.

The legislation which we are discussing today would make children's

environments safer. Guns have no business being near children as they

play in their own homes, as they visit their friends', or as they

endeavor to study and learn at school. We adults must do all that we

can to ensure that guns do not come in contact with our children. But

saying that guns do not belong il,ear schools is not enough. Guns near

and in schools are coming from somewhere, and indications are that

these guns mostly come from homes. Keeping guns away from schools must

be just one part of getting guns entirely out of the environments of

chldren.

For obvious reasons. In a survey conducted by the Academy, it was

determined that one in six pediatricians has treated injuries caused by

handguns. Sixty-two percent of those injuries occurred during

unsupervised play with a gun found in the household. Nearly

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three-fourths of the pediatricians surveyed strongly agreed that they

and their colleagues should support community efforts to enact

gun-control legislation.

The Academy is focusing increased attention on the scourge of childhood

and adolescent firearm injuries. We are alarmed by the degree to which

the American firearm injury epidemic intrudes into the child and

adolescent population. We believe that the time is right for our

society to undertake initiatives to reduce the frequency of firearm

injury and death. Pediatricians are becoming involved in efforts to

reduce the prevalence of firearm injuries--as educators of parents, as

experts on children and adolescents, and as advocates in the political

process.

In 1988, a deranged woman carried her legally obtained weapons into a

grade school in Winnetka, Illinois, and started shooting

indiscriminately. One child was killed and several more injcred before

the assailant killed herself. The children who saw the carnage and the

community in which they live are still recovering. The months that

followed saw a number of copy-cat assaults in schools around the

country, some with deaths, all of them traumatic to the children and to

the communities.

Early in 1989, a deranged man carried hiE legally obtained arsenal of

assault rifles and handguns to a school yard in Stockton, California.

When he finished firing two minutes later, five children were dead.

Nearly 30 other children and a teacher were injured.

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By such lurid accounts, the public might be misled that this is nothing

more than a problem of controlling a handful of deranged and disturbed

individuals--but it is not. We might believe that it is a problem

involving a small criminal elemen, that need only be eradicated from

our most desperate inner city neighborhoods--but it is not. It is an

epidemic that is being spread to, and being spread by, people who are

more like you and me than we perhaps care to admit. Guns, after all,

are a part of our general society, even a part of "polite" society.

They are bought and used casually throughout America, which disquieting

fact the rest of the civilized world regards with utter astonishment.

Firearms are a problem of epidemic proportion. I use the word epidemic

because it is, in the considered judgment of pediatricians, perfectly

apt. It is not an epidemic of typhoid, or of scarlet fever, or of..,

polio or diphtheria--those are gratefully behind us now. It is,

however, an epidemic that is spreading. It is incubating in our cities

and towns, where the accepted use of guns as everyday instruments of

business, negotiation, status, and as a means of settling differences,

are turning our schoolchildren into victims, usually at an age too

young to understand what is happening or why.

Every year . . thv United States approximately 3000 children and

adolescents die as the result of gunshot injuries. This is a mix of

howicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. In addi Aon, there is

an unknown but large number of children who are seriously injured

(often irrevers ibly) but who survive. It is estimated that in addition

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to the 10 gun deaths to children and adolescents that occur every day,

there are 30-40 children who are wounded. One in every 25 admissions

to American pediatric trauma centers is due to gunshot wounds. In

1987, gun injuries were the fourth-leading cause of unintentional

injury death for children ages 14 and under.

As a society, we are all of us--physicians, educators, legislators,

parents and grandparents--called upon to make some sense out of this

senseless waste of young lives. We are losing our children; bright

futures are being extinguished.

The position of the Academy on this issue could not be clearer. It is

the product of everything which we pediatricians know about the health,

growth, development and needs of our youngest citizens. It is based on

our background in public health and preventive medicine. It is simply

that children cannot coexist in an environment with firearms. Children

living in proximity to deadly weapons may die of gunfire (accidental or

intentional) as surely as children playing in the street may be run

over by cars, and as surely as children swimming during a thunderstorm

may be hit by lightning.

It is axiomatic, and instructive, that children must be separated, in

time and space, from things that harm them. It is true for the measles

virus, it is true for drain cleaner, it is true for a contaminated

supply of drinking water, and it is true for guns. Yet putative

"solutions" persist--hopeless proposals by persons who argue (in the

face of mounting evidence to the contrary) that we can keep all our

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guns and shield all our children. The result of this improvident

claim? We continue to sacrifice 10 children and adolescents today, 10

more tommorrow, and 10 more every day thereafter.

would prudent restrictions on guns in sone environments egregiously

curb our freedom? Not if one accepts that with freedom comes

responsibility: responsibility to our famines, our communities, our

schools and our children. Indeed, a safe society requires that we

accept some controls. We control automobile driving on our

highways--we specify who can drive and under what conditions. We

define the kind of electrical wiring that we can install in our

homos--copper is permitted, aluminum is not. We specify what kinds of

toys can be sold to our children--restrictions are placed on those that

pose a choking hazard, those that t re sharp edges and those with lead

paint. tIn fact, some of these toys may be far more difficult to

purchase than i a handgun.) Now we are called upon to decide whether

we choose to continue to live with brain injuries, paralyzed arms and

legs, and with morning newspaper reports of children gunned down on

their way to or from or during school.

Last year, the Academy called together 30 experts from fields including

medicine, public health, the law, and injury prevention, as well as

parents of victims. They gathered in Chicago to participate in a forum

cn guns and children sponsored by the Henry J. Kaiser Family

Foundation. The central conclusion reached by that distinguished group

was that widespread availability of guns is the single factor most

responsible for childhood deaths from gunfire. It was determined that,

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in incremental steps if necessary, we as a society must begin to

separate our children from guns.

If we are going to take this problem seriously, if we believe that our

children's lives are worth saving, aren't schoolyards, school buses,

classrooms and lunchrooms appropriate places to start? Isn't it time

to send out the message that we care enough about our children--white,

black, Hispanic, rich and poor alike--to insist on separating them from

weapons which the rest of the Western world views as relics of

barbarism, instruments of less civilized societies governed more by

impulse and violence than by thoughtfulness and reason?

Conclusion

The carnage caused by guns among children and adolescents

occasionally receives media attention. However, systematic and

sustained attention to the problem has been lacking. Part of the

reason for this is the scarcity of data concerning the involvement of

children in the gun epidemic, and a lack of necessary detail in the

data that are available. The Academy urges Congress to take steps to

ensure that proper records are kept, so that the gravity of the

situation can be properly assessed and that steps can be taken to end

the maiming and killing of our children. Gunshot injuries should be

reportable and reported, just as are cases of measles and AIDS. It would be reasonable, for example, to add to the legislation under

consideration today a requirement for schools to record and report how

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8

often guns appear at school, where they come from, and how often

someone gets hurt. A steady flow of this sobering infoxmation would

help to keep us working on the task of reducing gun injuries to

children.

The greatest tragedy in the facts which I have presented today is that

firearm deaths are among the most preventable of all childhood

fatalities. Were guns not so readily available, most of these deaths

would be avoided. Pediatricians are prepared to support your

leadership, and that of this committee, to ensure that further

preventable firearm deaths and disabling injuries do not befall our

children simply because we lack the political will to protect them.

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Mr. FEIGHAN. MS. Lautman, I wonder if you could address one of

the concerns that ri colleague from New Hampshire raised earli- er, and that is tly. incidence of gun use in school zones, schoolyards, involving either adult students, other adults, or students whose age would subject them possibly to the adult criminal justice

system. Apparently in one of your reports which my colleague has re- viewed, there was not significant evidence of incidence where there would be prosecution of someone as an adult. I wonder if that is a

fair interpretation of the data as you understand it, or if that data

actually is available. Ms. LAUTMAN. The report that Congressman Douglas was reading from was simply done to address the issue of kids victimizing other kids. That's why there are no reports of adults in that. We were looking simply at the increasing violence where the perpetrators were indeed children themselves.

As we look at the data we've collected from newspaper clippings, the reports that we've looked at that some persons do keep, we find

that while the majority of offenders in school buildings, on school grounds, are youthsthe majority between the ages of 14 and 17

there are large numbers, and I don't have the specific numbers here todaybut there are large numbers of kids between the ages of 17 and 21 and large numbers of adults standing on street corners dealing drugs. We see as many drive-by shootings that are committed by people who are not juveniles. So that the numbers of adults that are committing the offenses

in and around school grounds is very large from the data we've

seen. I'd be happy to provide the subcommittee with more complete data on that when we can pull it together. Mr. FEIGHAN. That would be very helpful if you could, just so

that we have a sense of the population that this legislation would

be impacting. [The information was not submitted.]

Mr. FiriGHAN. Chief Kovacic, I had the opportunityI think it might have been prior to your arrival in the committee room this morningto talk with Mr. Cook about a chart that you had sub- mitted as part of your testimony dramatizing the significant in- crease in the incidence of gun use in the Cleveland school systems. I don't have it immediately before me but I think that the chart reflected an almost 100-percent increase in incidence between 1985

or 1986 and 1990.

As you indicated in your testimony, Chief, so far in 1990 we have witnessed a 17-percent increase over last year, and there are sever- al months remaining in the year. Have you had the opportunity to reflect on this significant in- crease and arrive at any conclusions as to what you think is hap- pening in our system, which I suspect, and Mr. Cook suspected as well, was typical of what is happening in urban areas across the

country? What are the factors that are contributing to such a significant annual increase?

Mr. KOVACIC. Congressman, I believe that what we're witnessing

in Cleveland is the beginnings of organized gangs trying to take

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over drug trafficking, extortion of schoolchildren, and a myriad of

criminal activities that were scattered in the past. These are gang members who furnish school-age students with weapons and send them into the schools. They will frequent the

area of the schools to get together with those students who are still

there.

I think that the other side of it is, it almost becomes self-preser- vation the way other youngsters see this; they are being intimidat- ed by these hoodlums; and so in some cases they are carrying a weapon for self-preservation. That's what I feel is happening, coupled, of course, with the drug problem, which is what most gangs struggle overfighting for that trade. Mr. FEIGHAN. Chief, I want to address an issue that you raised in your testimony regarding the exemption for law enforcement officersFederal, State, and localwhich clearly we want to accom- plish and we don't want any ambiguity in the legislation on that. It was my understanding from speaking with our legislative

counsel's office in the preparation of this legislation that would

cover law enforcement officersthe language that we havein the

scope of their duties. Is it your interpretation as you read the legislation that just a very modest amendment would specifically exempt law enforcement officers and resolve any ambiguity that exists in this pro- posed statute? Mr. KONTACIC. Yes, it could lead to different interpretations by various layers of governmentschool government, so forth and so

on. This language would be very specific and take away that area

that sort of gray areathat seems to exist now under the present

law.

I have several police officers who are attorneys, and I asked

them to research the law. Their feeling was, yes, we probably are exempted but they, too, felt that a clear statement of that exemption is necessary. Mr. FEIGHAN. I appreciate your pointing that out and your com- mentary on it because we definitely want that exemption very

clear in our legislation. Ms. Lautman, if I could ask you again, I was told recently that Dade Countyor maybe I even saw this in the extended version of your testimonythat Dade County currently has a gun awareness

class.

Are you familiar with that curriculum requirement? Ms. LAUTMAN. Yes, I am. In fact, the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence wrote that curriculum in its program in conjunction with Youth Crime Watch of Dade County and the Dade County public

schools.

Mr. FEIGHAN. How long has that been in effect?

Ms. LAUTMAN. Since December of last year. Mr. FEIGHAN. Has anyone had the opportunity in that relatively

short timeframe to evaluate the impact of that curricula

requirement? Ms. LAUTMAN. There has been preliminary evaluations done. Our evaluation shows that students are learning a lesson that guns are dangerous, that the long-term effects of gun violence are tragic, and what can happen to them if they bring guns to school.

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The Miami Herald reported a decrease this year in the number of gun incidents and gun deaths among students since the program

kickoff. And they have partially credited the gun awareness pro- gram with that decrease in violence in Dade County schools. Mr. FEIGHAN. At what level is that curriculum requirement?

MS. LAUTMAN. It's kindergarten through 12th grade. Mr. FEIGHAN. Dr. Widome, if I could ask you, the written testi- mony that we had from the National Education AssociationMr. Packerreferred to post-traumatic-strew syndrome. Post-traumatic-stress syndrome is a condition with which I'm familiar with

regard to Vietnam veterans but not with regard to children. I wonder if you could address that issue from your professional perspective. Explain to us what that is, what the impact is on American schoolchildren.

Dr. WIDOME. I think over the past 10 or 15 years, we continue to

learn more about the emotional lives of children. And we've

learned how really some children give signals to express the emotional stress that they're having. It could be stress from an illness;

it could be stress from an automobile crash that they were involved

in; it could be stress from gunfire. And particularly harmful is the problem of stress associated with seeing a friend or a loved one, a parent, an older brother or sister, being hurt, or being killed. Children will sleep poorly, children will eat poorly, some children will even grow poorly. Children will be unable to do their school- work, will be unable to enjoy life. And it's a process that can be well documented, not only in the year after the occurrence, but even for years later. It's analogous to the post-traumatic-stress syndrome that you mentioned, Mr. Feighan, that we saw in people returning from

Vietnam. The problem is it's only been more recently recognized in

children, but the impact is the same or greater. We're particularly concerned about the effects of gun violence on

adults, the effect that that has on children. I think if you look at places like Winnetka, IL, for example, you will see an entire com- munity of children, many of whom did not witness what went on in

that school, who were having these kinds of problems. So I think our children are growing up in that environment. I

think, unfortunately, we're going to see more and more of it something we think about in New York City and Washington, DC, perhaps in Chicago and Los Angeles. But I was speaking the other day with a colleague of mine who spent 12 years as a pediatric sur- geon in Richmond, VAa town of 200,000, maybe a metropolitan

area of 600,000and it was a routine occurrence, he told me, to see

ambulances arriving from schools, and seeing entire families expe- riencing emotional turmoil through the hospitalization, through

the period of rehabilitation, and for months thereafter. Mr. FEIGHAN. Thank you. Again I want to thank the members of

this panel. I think you've been exceptionally helpful in a very chilling fashion, painting a very broad picture for us, explaining the di- mensions of this problem in our country. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. HUGHES [presiding]. I thank the gentleman. The gentleman from Pennsylvania.

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Mr. GEKAS. Yes, I thank the Chair. I suppose it's been apparent from the tenor of the questions that

we posed and some of the statements that we've made, and from

the accumulation of testimony that you've heard thus far from

yourselves, your colleagues, that we all are interested in doing

something about the subject; and how is the best way to approach

it becomes the overall problem. Education among the populous comes forward as a number one prerequisite, in my judgment, no matter what legislation we pass

or fail to pass here. I wanted to ask Mr. Packer if he had heard today, because I had not, about the existence of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and

Firearms outreach program in which it was stated that some 41,000 youngsters have been exposed to this kind of forum in the

past. Have you heard of that program? Mr. PACKER. I personally have not heard of it. Others in my asso- ciation might have, but perhaps at our local level. We have 12,000

local affiliates, and there might have been contacts there. Mr. GEKAs. I think it would be helpful for us if you would, through your association, determine where this has occurred, and wh!.t the results are, and how the administration of the particular school evaluates it, and what impact it might have had on the chil- dren if there are some conclusions drawn from these things. I think

that is an important feature, because an alternative to this legislatioA, which the chairman is advocating and which we were discussing, might be to further this outreach on the Bureau's part. So I

think, in conjunction with your work, we ought to be beneficiaries of what statistics you can give us on that.

Mr. PACKER. We would be happy to do that.

[The information follows:]

The NEA has not had any contact with the BATF Outreach Program to date. The Bureau apparently provides agents to speak at schools at the request of a local schooi adminib.L ator and has not worked with teacher groups. However, several NEA iepresentatives will be meeting with BATF staff in October to develop a working relationship in order to publicize the Bureau's outreach efforts among NEA

members and affiliates.

Mr. GEKAS That brings us in line with Ms. Lautman's report

that part of the curriculum in this one instance that you are talking about raises the awareness of our children as to the overall consequences of gun use, gun violence, et cetera. So, again, we are on the same beam in trying to get the message out. This is very

salutary, in my judgment, to see unanimity on talking about it more and making awareness a top priority. Dr. Widome, in his statement, was emphasizing increasing the volume or the tenor of data gathering. But what I want to ask you, Dr. Widome, is this. Right now, a physician in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and I suppose elsewhere, has to report a gunshot wound, of course. So we have that body of information already

lodged. You are suggestingand I am taking this into account, be- cause I think it is importantthat the school administrations be

mandated, if they don't undergo willingly the process of reporting

each incident of gun possession, gun use, or gun exposure of some

type in the schools. Is that what you are talking about?

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Dr. WIDOME. Exactly, Mr. Geke.s. I think, as in so many problems, we have got an iceberg with both the tip and the main mass of the problem, and we have heard some documentation today from

surveys about how frequently children take guns to school. But I think the data still needs to be collected with more specificitythe types of guns, where they are coming from, what grades, what geographic distribution. We collect data for a great number of

things in this country, particularly for a variety of reportable ill- nesses, and invariably this data has been helpful in directing us

toward strategies and countermeasures. I think we are little bit behind in terms of guns, and I 'Junk it would be a perfectly reason- able thing to do to have the appropriate government agencyand I don't know what that agency might bedevelop better data on ex- actly how much of a gun environment the school environment is. Mr. GEKAS. I think you may be correct. We heard testimony from the Bureau in which they, when re- sponding to a call from a school district, will trace the origin of a

firearm and so forth. So presumably they will have recorded then

that particular incident. But there are probably many other occa- sions in which the school district never contacts any agency but handles it on its own or somehow considers it so minor that it

doesn't bring in another agency, and that would go unrecorded. One other question. A physician, as we said, is required to give a

report on a gunshot wound in Pennsylvania and elsewhere, I trust. But there is no requirement, is there, for them to report a case in which they definitely make a diagnosis that this was emotional stress drawn from a gun incident? Is that correct? Dr. WIDOME. That is correct. That data is not collected.

Mr. GEKAS. I am wondering if, within the medical community, there ought to be some movement toward seeing if we can collate

that into the whole body of statistics having to do with gun

incidents.

Dr. WIDOME. I think that is a suggestion that clearly deserves

some consideration. It is more difficult because of a matter of definitions, obviously.

Mr. GEKAS. Yes.

Dr. WIDOME. But there is no question that we are seeing in the medical literature, which is a good reflection of what is happening on an underlying basiswe are certainly seeing, we are recognizing, stress syndromes and effects on families with far greater fre- quency than we did in the past. Mr. Gzx As. Would this, do you envision, violate the physician-patient relationship of confidentiality in any way? Dr. WIDOME. 'Well, you know, we report a great number of dis- eases, and there is opportunity to report product-related hazards without identifying information for epidemiologic purposes, and I don't see any reason why that couldn't be done to better define the

effects of gunfire. Mr. GEKAS. I thank the panel. Mr. HUGHES. The gentleman from New Hampshire. Mr. Dom!. As. Chief Kovacic, I take it, if senate bill 52 becomes

law in Ohio, you would have a law on the books that your police- men could enforce.

Mr. Kov Am. That is correct.

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Mr. DOUGLAS. If this bill, H.R. 3757, becomes law, there is nothing there that your policemen can enforce.

Mr. KOVACIC. No, sir.

Mr. DOUGLAS. So you support it, even though it won't have any

effect in the city of Cleveland in terms of your hundreds of police

officers.

Mr. KOVACIC. It will have an effect, sir.

Mr. DOUGLAS. How?

Mr. KOVACIC. We can hold and detain people for a variety of

things. If we find somebody counterfeiting U.S. money, we can haul them before the Secret Service. My program would be that in these areas where these weapons are deliberately taken into the school area and used in a crime, that we ask ATF' to prepare the Federal court cases. Sure, we can detain, we can hold, we can turn them

over to the Federal Government and give them additional cases. In Ohio, we had a law passed on using a weapon in an armed

robbery, and it was accompanied by a great deal of publicity, which

I feel a bill of this type would need. Our armed robberies with weapons dropped way down. I think this would have the same

effect that, with the proper publicity campaign, the bringing of weapons into that school area would diminish greatly. Mr. DOUGLAS. But it would be better, would it not, for you, as a

law enforcement officer, if you didn't have to split jurisdictionin

other words, if you could just keep it all within your own

department? Mr. KOVACIC. Oh, no, sir. I like the idea of going to the Federal Government on a variety of things. We work very closely in Cleveland with all the Federal agencies, and we find out that, when you

really want to drive something home, that is the way to go. If we were to try and cope with the drug problem on our own, we would be stymied. If we tried to go against the gangs on our own, we would meet with very little success, and what we are trying to do here is keep guns where they belong, in the fields, on the target range, and the last place in the world that a gun belongs is in a

school zone.

Mr. DOUGLAS. I agree with you, and that is why I am looking for what will work.

You heard ATF indicate that they don't have the manpower to

administer this law. Were you here when that gentleman testified? Mr. KOVACIC. I believe I caught something along that line, yes. Mr. DOUGLAS. What would happen to a typical 14-year-old, 15- to 16-year -ld, under Ohio law? Keep in mind that ATF said, under Federal law, even if you detain the kid, nothing is going to happen, so they are going to give them right back to you. Now what are you going to do with this kid-16, who pulled a gun on a teacher? A 14- year-old pulled a gun on a fellow student in a men's room? What will happen to that kid under Ohio law? Mr. KOVACIC. He would be turned over to the juvenile court, and

if it were judged by the juvenile court that the Ase was serious enough, and if he met a certain age criterion, he would be held

through the common police court. However, I think that what you have here is the aider and abettor statutes. I don't think that an 11- or a 15-year-old youngster is going to get a gun pretty much on his own. TI ?. kind that I am

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concerned about are when these gang leaders, who know the age differentials, present a youngster with a gun and send them into

that school. Under aider and abettor statutes, if the offense is serious enough that ATF feels they want to step in, they could go after

the person who furnished them with that weapon to bring into that school zone, and then the other end of it is, for the first time we

will get a national series of statistics on just exactly how serious

this problem is and what areas are being hit the hnrdest. Mr. DOUGLAS. If you have 100 kids involved in school gun inci- dents in your State, how many are under age? How many are

minors?

Mr. KOVACIC. The only thing I can tell you, Mr. Douglas, is that my observation of the past several years has been that they are all very close to the age of 18, the breaking point in Ohio for a

juvenile. Mr. DOUGLAS. But they are under it.

Mr. KOVACIC. Some are under; some are over.

Mr. DOUGLAS. What are most?

Mr. KOVACIC. I would have to say most are probably under the

age of 18. Mr. DOUGLAS. And Ms. Lautman's figures, all of her incidents were under the age, which leads me to my concern. Mr. Packer says we should pass this to send a signal. I am really concerned

that we do something about it, not that we just pass a signal and

say we have solved school violence when, in fact, ATF isn't going to prosecute because most of them are kids. You folks all know that

the juvenile system doesn't work very well. Isn't the answer perhaps a model law that the States could get passed that would cover both aiding and abettingnamely, adults arming kids that they know will go into the juvenile system and

therefore escape real justice, as well as to provide something that would be immediate, which would be that for kids violating the law

they are automatically treated as adults: There is no certification; you don't have a hearing. You are a kid in school above the age of

15 with a firearm; that's it; you are an adult; you are going to be

indicted, tried, and treated, and jailed exactly as if you were Mr. Kovacic's age or my age. Now that would send a strong message

and, in fact, would probably do a heck of a lot more to clean up the

system, don't you think, than having ATF handing these kids back

to you when they find out they are under age? Mr. KOVACIC. No, I have to disagree with you. I think that the ATF and the Cleveland Police Department working in this area would have an impact, a bigger impact than the Cleveland Police Department has alone. We also get into the area where these youngsters are crossing

city lines witi) a great deal of immunity. In my community alone, it would require the banding together of about 60 or 70 different

law enforcement agencies just to gat the intelligence information

that could be gotten by using a Federal agency as a central repository of the data collected and the information collected. Mr. DOUGLAS. Let me follow that up, because I want to deal with

the problem likewise. You think that the existing juvenile laws when you get these kids back are more than adequate to handle it,

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that the punishment fits the crime under our current juvenile

system such as in your State or mine? Mr. KONTACIC. I think that the biggest flaw in the juvenile system

is the lack of detention space, and that is a problem that cannot be

solved by passing laws. Mr. DOUGLAS. So I am still looking at down the road, assuming

the ATF agent comes, you have made an arrest, you are holding

the kid, and they say, "Well, he is only 16," and you heard the guy

say, "If they are under age, we don't want them," and a majority of

your problems are under age, all If Ms. Lautman's casesevery

single oneare under age. So I am talking about the real world

now. The ATF guy says, "Chief, he is back on your watch." Your

juvenile system isn't going to serve as a deterrent to that kid, be- cause that is why they armed the kids in the first place; they know

that it isn't going to work. They will be out on the street how soon?

Months?

Mr. KovAcic. Days sometimes.

Mr. DOUGLAS. Days?

Mr. KONTACIC. That is correct.

Mr. DOUGLAS. SO, in the end, after we have had this great media blitz, the kids will figure out, "Hey, this doesn't amount to anything any more than robbing a grocery store"you know. "We are back on the street, we are back in school, and the new law didn't do anything." Is that the answer, to certify these kids, or treat

them as adults instantly so that they do --It packed away for 5

years? Mr. KONTACTC. Mr. Douglas, I can agree with much of what you are saying, but I think that the point here is this. Most of the

weapons used are handguns. By establishing that zone, that 1,000- foot zone, around an urban school, you have insulated that school from the discharge of that firearm, be it accidental or purposeful. Most schools in the urban area consist ofa large portion of that school is made out of glass. A handgun fired at close proximity to

the glass will penetrate the glass and injure a child inside that school. This law, by establishing a 1,000-foot area around that school--and that is the basics of this law, not whether somebody is 15, or 18, or 50the basics of this law are to prevent a handgun, or a weapon, from being discharged within that area. Now we don't

want to wait until the gun is actually fired, and so you have this portion of the bill that deals with bringing it into this area. If you look at an urban area and an urban school and you get about 1,000 feet away from that school, you will find that it is very difficult to get a clear shot at the school; it is going to hit something else; it is going to hit a garage, it is going to hit another

house.

But I think that the purpose of this lawwhether they are 16 or 36, if they have that gun, the purpose of this law is to keep them

from discharging that gun within 1,000 feet of the school. Mr. DOUGLAS. OK. 13ut, Chief. this could be done under State

law. Ohio could pass such a law. What bothers me is your point: This is great for urban schools. But when Congress passes a law, it includes States like mine. Every time in a rural school district you drive by the rural school, you have committed a 5-year felony

under Federal law if you haven't complied with all the strictures of

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this. Now that is ridiculous. Every time we have hunting season in

New Hampshire, you could theoretically have a road block, and in

some little two-room schoolhouse out in Landaff, NH, that is 40

feet from the road, in a town of 300 people, everyone is going to get

arrested. That is why this should be lefc to the States or to a State

option, because it isn't going to work in rural areas. Mr. FEIGHAN. Would the gentleman yield on that point?

Mr. DOUGLAS. Yes.

Mr. FEIGHAN. I think that it is unlikely, since BATF has already

told us the burdens that they have, that they are likely to pursue a

case against a hunter in your community that is caught in a roadblock on his way to hunting. But, in any event--

Mr. DOUGLAS. But it could happen. Mr. FEIGHAN [continuing]. I am not so sure that it could happen.

But beside the point, it certainly is not something that is going to

lead to proseeution. I do think it is important that we recognize that in existing Fed- eral law we have provisions for the treatment of juveniles as adults. Essentially as young as age 15, for crimes of violence, a

youth can be tried as an adult and that should not be overlooked.

So while we are talking about what appears to be at least a prepon- derance of incidents involving children under the age of 18, the majority of them, in fact, would be prosecutable under Federal law.

I appreciate the gentleman's yield. Mr. DOUGLAS. If I also may ask just one other question, and then

I am through, what is the percentage of incidents in the Cleveland

schools involving the use of kr ives? Mr. Kovacw. I couldn't answer that question now. I would have

to go back and get it. Mr. DouGLAs. Is it only guns that are the weapon of choice in the Cleveland schools, or are there also knife incidents as well?

Mr. KOVACIC. No, there are cases where youths have used base- ball bats, hatchets, a variety of objects. But 'le devastating thing

about a gun is that those other weapons are pretty personal, it is very much one on one. You fire a weapon in a school, you don't know where that bullet is going to wind up, and I think that is why the firearms are so singled out, because it is so devastating

and the potential for striking a child is so great in the school. That

is why we go for stata on guns as opposed to knives. Mr. DOUGLAS. it is currently against the law, anyway, for kids to be having firearms, isn't it?

MT. KOVACIC. Yes.

Mr. DOUGLAS. So I guess you folks have more confidence that Congress passing a law will immediately change the behavior of kids who are already violating the law today. What I am concerned with is, wouldn't a metal detector at an urban school pick up the knives, the shivs, the guns, and everything else? If all the kids knew that they had to go through a metal detector, just as I am

sure your courthouses have laws against guns in courthouses, but if

I was a judge, I would not rely on that law, I would want a metal detector out in the hall, because I know that criminals aren't going

to obey the law, that is why they are coming in the buthrling. Wouldn't that be the most effective way to know, if you are a

teacher in a classroom, that the odds are now much higher, not

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that a Federal law was passed but that there is a metal detector

there and every morning they file through it? Mr. Kov AcIc. I don't think that the passage of law, in and of

itself, would deter too much of anything.

Mr. DOUGLAS. I agree with you. Mr. KOVACIC. But I think enforcement, maximum sentencing, and those kinds of things, coupled with a campaign that, if you

bring a gun into a school zone, you are going to do State time as well as Federal time, and it is going to be a long time. That kind of a campaign, I think, would have an impact, coupled with the fact

that some of these punks that supply these weapons would be going

away for a long period of time. As far as the metal detectors are concerned, if the schools

wanted to put those up, we would probably support them on that. But, again, the violence isn't just in the schools, it is in the school- yards, it is in the areas around the schools, and a metal detector would not in any way influence that kind of conduct outside of the

school.

Mr. DOUGLAS. OK.

All right. Thank you, Chief.

Mr. KOVACIC. Thank you.

Mr. HUGHES. I thank the gentleman. This has ')een an excellent panel, and I want to thank our colleague from Ohio for working with the staff and structuring this particular hearing. I have a number of questions. Chief, thank you. I understand from staff that you rearranged

your schedule to be here today, and we certainly appreciate that very, very much. I am interested in Ohio Senate bill 52 which you testified to earlier. I think the point you made was that you prefer the bill before

this subcommittee, the Feighan bill, over S. 52 because it is broad- er. S. 52 is just crafted to deal with the use of a firearm in a school facility. What is wrong with getting the legislature in Ohio to broaden thatthey obviously have the jurisdiction to do soto

cover 1,000 feet if that be their intent?

Mr. KW/AMC. I would support that too, Mr. Chairman. Mr. HUGHES. Have you contacted the legislature to make that suggestion to them? Because that would seem to be a very good

suggestion.

Mr. KOVACIC. I have not at this point, sir, but I will. Mr. HUGHES. I was very interested in some of the data you had

collected. That is about the most complete data I have seen from a police department on the number of firearms involved at school fa- cilities. I wonder if you can give me any idea about the average age of the youngsters involved in those incidents. It is obvious that since 1983, the period that you studied, from

1983 to 1990, that the incidence of the abuse of firearms in and

around school facilities has increased significantly. What can you

tell us about the average age of the youngsters? Mr. KOVACIC. Mr. Chairman, I didn't prepalre any data on that, but just based on my knowledge of the situation, I would say that

the majority are under the age of 18.

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Mr. HUGHES. Yes. The reason I ask that is as a follow up to the

questions from my colleague from New Hampshire, because I am

sure all of us agree that it is becoming increasingly a problem. We

all want to do the most effective thing, and the problem that I

have, which I have already indicatedI am not very discreet about

my questioningis that we are not structured at the Federal level

to run street investigations. Street crime is prosecuted generally by

State and local authorities. We don't have the assets, the informants, the capacity. We don't have the structure to deal with juveniles systematically throughout the country. We have some facilities here in DC. We have a special situation in DC, being that it is

the seat of our government. But, frankly, we are not equipped. We

have no juvenile facilities to speak of. In fact, we have inadequate

facilities for adult offenders, as you do in Ohio. You almost have to

make an appointment to go to jail today, because we don't have facilities. But we are not equipped; we don't have the U.S. attorneys

to prosecute juvenile cases. Our declination policyby that I mean dumping on local units of

governmentis terrible. In areas like bank robberies, we decline

prosecution in many instances. At one time, we had a declination

policy with regard to marijuana of a couple of tons. It has only

beenwhat? Eight years ago, Mr. Feighan, we had the policy. That

is because we didn't have resources to prosecute cases. Then you raise some additional questions. If you are 101 feet

from a schoolafter you get over the arguments as to whether it is

a Federal case under this bill or a State case, if you are 101 feet and you commit an offense, it is a State offense; if you are within

the 1,000 feet, it becomes a Federal offense. What policy do you use with regard to treating juveniles as adult

offenders? I frankly think the States should make that determination. My colleague from New Hampshire and I have a disagreement over what role we should play in the Federal Government,

but I happen to agree with him that we ought to be reviewing

throughout the country our treatment of adult offenders. I think

we need to start treating more youthful offenders as adult offenders, particularly with regard to heinous offenses. So those are all questions that concern me. We all want to try to

channel our energies and resources in the most effective manner to

deal with the problem. It is an increasing problem. But I wonder

whether the answer is not possibly attempting to develop more help through support help from ATF, which has expertise in working with units of government such as yours where you have a particular problem. For example, the Cleveland school system could

make a request for, let's say, a task force operation to come in and

assist you where you have a particular problem, or where we have

interstate problems, which happens, I am sure, to some degree. But

the problems you are describing are intergovernmental but not

necessarily interstate. I suspect that leg e have weapons crossing into your city from

other jurisdictions around you triggering a need for some coordination among the units of government. But, again, isn't that something that is best handled by State and local government? Mr. KOVAC1C. Mr. Chairman, it may well be. There is one element, however, that I think has been overlooked, and that is the

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fact that we have had gangs in the city of Cleveland for some time which have created some minor problems. We have identified gang mem'oers coming from Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, and other areas of the country, coming into the Cleveland area and trying to organize our gangs. In some instances, it is over the supply of drugs. We have reason to believe that they are also supplying them

with weapons. Our schools are deeply involved in the struggle to

keep these youngsters from joining these gangs. Very recently, we identified some members of the Cripps, which

is a California-based gang, recruiting members in one of our parks. We arrested 97 young people in that park. One of them had a weapon. There is no doubt that the Cripps would have access to weapons and be able to bring them into the Ohio area, as would people from Chicago and Detroit. Those are the kinds of things

that we would look to the Federal Government to help us with. Mr. HUGHES. And I think rightfully so. That is one of the reasons

I favor the expansion of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force operations. ATF becomes a very important adjunct, be- cause you can't talk about drugs today and not talk about guns, they art interrelated. It is unusual when you make a major bust if you don't seize some weapons at the same time. So I quite agree with you. I think that that is a problem that we need to deal with through our task force operations. We haven't done, in my judgment, at the Federal level the job

that we need to do in beefing up our task forces. So that when a

city like Cleveland has particular problems, it can make a request

to the Federal Government for assistance, and then we could move

a mobile task force in there to try to deal with the problems. Problems such as you have just described where there is interstate

transportation of weapons perhaps and controlled substances are

involved and there is a reason to try to develop some intelligence gathering on a regional basis that may cross State lines. You are

absolutely right. We need to do more in that area. But that is a different problem. I am talking about the average

if you can call itrun-of-the-mill case involving a youngster who walks to a corner store that happens to be located within 1,000 feet of a school, where kids hang out, and carries a firearm, and that concerns me. The question is: Who can best deal with that? I am

not persuaded that we should not be attempting to assist local police departments and State organizations in developing State

strategies to deal with that. S. 52 would be an ideal vehicle, it seems to me, to do precisely what Mr. Feighan wants to do, just like we have done. You have a drug-free school zone; that is a State statute. The Feds have come

in by way of support, but States have passed those laws, and it makes abundant good sense for us not to try to create another area of jurisdiction and then not adequately fund it. How many school districts do we have, Mr. Packer, in the

country? Mr. PACKER. There are 16,000 public school districts with about

100,000 schools.

Mr. HUGHES. Sixteen thousand.

Mr. PACKER. With 100,000 schools.

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Mr. HUGHES. With 100,000 schools. You see, we have more school

districts, far more school districts, than we have special agents. We

havewhat?-1,800 special agents I think was the testimony- 1,800 special agents, not to mention no facilities, no ability to deal with juvenile offenders. I mean we don't handle very many juvenile offenders in the Federal system. We would have to create a whige new system to deal with that. Do you have any idea, Mr. Packer, of the number of firearms

that are involved in the 5,200 secondary schoolteacher assaults in

schools each month?

Mr. PACKER. I don't have that information with me, but we can

try to find it. Mr. HUGHES. Can you furnish that to us? Also, the number of firearms that were involved in the some

282,000 secondary school student attacks, physical attacks, each month. The figures are astronomical, and it pomts up that there is a serious problem that we need to deal with. If you have the data

on how many of those assaults involve firearms, it would also be

interesting. [The information follows:]

The data we presented comes from a 1978 report to Congress by the National In- stitute of Education of the U.S. Depa rtment of Education. This report"Violent Schools-Safe Schools"is the most recant comprehensive study in violence in our Nation's schools. The report found that 282,000 secondary school students (out of a

total at the time of 21 million secondary school students) were attacked at school on

a monthly basis. While the report did not provide specific data on gun-related incidents, it found that only four percent of these attacks resulted in injuries requiring

medical attention.

Regarding teachers, 5,200 of the 1.1 million seconda*r schoolteachers were physically attacked in school in a 1-month period. Compared to students, a much larger proportion, 20 percent, required medical treatment.

Mr. HUGHES. For instance, I am aware in my own home town

that the kids congregate at lunch time. They are permitted in my

home town to go out to lunch. They walk to shops that are a little more than 1,000 feet away and that is where they congregate, and, of course, that presents the problems that I described previously. You would have, basically, no jurisdiction. If they happened to be

in that shop, they would be treated as a State offender, and if they were caught with a firearm, using it or not using it, just possessing

it, within 1,000 feet, why, it would be Federal. I am also very happy to learn that NEA has joined with the PTA

in supporting a number of bills, including the Brady billMr. Fei- ghan is the prime sponsor of that legislation and has worked very hard for its passage for a number of yearsand that you also sup- port the Senate assault weapons legislation, and I would invite you

to take a look at the House bill.

Mr. PACKER. And we support your version as well.

Mr. HUGHES. Which s even stronger. You know, you don't have to be a masterful gun manufacturer to modify any one of the nine weapons that the Senate has banned; you just make one minor modification, snd you are back in business agair., Mr. Packer. We have done something on the House side

which we think is much more effective in attempting to use the

factoring criteria used by ATF, and I would invite NEA to take a

look at that and start to promote that.

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Mr. PACKER. We agree with you, and, as you know, the Senate bill was a matter of compromise as to what could be passed, and, as you know, that weaker version only passed by one vote.

Mr. HUGHES. When you are over in the Senate side, you push the Senate bill; when you are over here, you know, we encourage you

to try to--- Mr. PACKER. We will be, before the bill comes to the House floor,

sending a letter to each member. Mr. HUGHES. It is coming, Mr. Packer. We need your help.

Mr. PACKER. We will be there.

Mr. HUGHES. It is coming in a couple of weeks.

Mr. PACKER. We will do that.

Mr. DOUG' As. Mr. Chairman, may I ask also for the figures on

knives as well?

Mr. HUGHES. Yes. That would be interesting. Mr. PACKER. One figure on knives that we do have which comes

from the same survey about guns shows that 135,000 boys carried a gun daily to school; the comparable figure for knives was 945,000. So about five or six times--

Mr. DOUGLAS. Carry knives?

Mr. PACKER. That is right.

I don't know the breakdown. Some of those may be simple pocket knives or Swiss Army knives.

Mr. DOUGLAS. I am just curious, because the concern is that this only deals with guns, and we are concerned about that. But if I were a teacher, a kid carrying a 7- or 8-inch knife, frankly, would

be of equal concern to me. I had a mother who was a teacher, and I would like to know that they are not running around just saying, "Fine; don't bring guns to school; bring knives," and a year from

now you are back here saying, "Well, now we have got a major knife problem in schools, and we want a knife-free zone." Mr. HUGHES. If you have those figures, would you submit them

also?

Mr. DOUGLAS. That would be helpful.

[The information followed

The National Adolescent Student Health Survey, funded by the Department of Health and Human Services, found that 23 percent of boys surveyed in secondary

schools carried a knife to school at least once during the school year in 1987 (com- pared to 3 percent who carried a handgun to school.)

Mr. PACKER. I agree with the problem with knives. I think, how- ever, there are certain legitimateyou know, people have pocket knives or Swiss Army knives that may be legitimate, they feel. I think also the point that the chief made that a gun presents a

threat to innocent bystanders and is just much more destructive

than a knifeit is very difficult, I think, for a student to conceal a

large butcher knife. I don't know, but I would just intuitively guess

that a large number of these are small pocket or Swiss Army

knives.

Mr. Dot.TGLAs. Do we have a copy of what you are reading from?

Mr. PACKER. I can provide it to the subcommittee. It is an article

from an education newsletter.

Mr. DOUGLAS. Thank you.

[The article follows:]

79

Case 1:23-cr-00010-MAC-ZJH Document 22-3 Filed 02/07/23 Page 79 of 93 PageID #: 319
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76

Mr. HUGHES. Ms. Lautman, I found some of your testimony also very, very interesting and very helpful. I wonder if you can share with us any more information about the 70 percent of the school shootings and hostage situations that you examined which were

committed by youngsters, the vast majority, in schools or on school premisesanything about the average age of those youngsters. Ms. LAUTMAN. The average age was 14 to 17 being most at risk.

The average age of the offender, 70 percent were over the age of 15, under the age of 19.

Mr. HUGHES. OK. Thank you.

Finally, Dr. Widome, your testimony too was, I think, very help- ful, and your suggestion about getting better data is an excellent one. We need to do that, and that is something I am going to ask

staff to pursue. Thank you. I want to thank the panel. They have been very, very helpful. That concludes today's hearing. We thank Mr. Feighan and his

staff and the Crime Subcommittee staff for their help, and we want

to welcome Mr. Mark Brinton, who is our new minority counsel, to

the staff. We are happy to have you aboard, and I can assure you

that you couldn't come at a more exciting time. We are going to

keep you busy.

The subcommittee stands adjourned. [Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned, to

reconvene subject to the call of the Chair.]

81

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APPENDIXES

APPENDIX 1.STATEMENT OF THE NATIONAL PTA

The National FoTA

Oft. of GovOmmooroa AP4atiOns

1201 16m Sow N W

Wasivoglon. DC 20036

1202/ 622.7678

STATEMENT OF THE NATIONAL PTA

IN SUPPORT or H.R. 3757,

THE GUN TREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT OF 1990

SEPTEMBER 6, 1990

The National PTA, the nation's largest child advocacy organization,

with 6.8 million members in over 27,000 local units in schools

around the country, the District of Columbia and Europe, urges

immediate passage of the Gun Free School Zones bill, H.R. 3757.

One of the main objectiveot of the national PTA is to "secure

adequate laws for the care ford protection of children and youth."

This includza advocating tor federal laws that promote gun safety

in the home, the community, and the school.

This bill does not infringe upon anyone's rights. Rather, creatIon

of gun free school zones would send the message that schools ar.4

serious about providing safe nvironments so children can learn.

Further, this bill is consistent with one of the national education

goals set forth by the nation's governors and Presidentthat "by

the year 2000, every school in America will be free of drugs and

violence and offer a disciplined environment conducive to

learning."

H.R. 3757 establishes tough penalties for individuals who possess

firearms within areas designated as public school zones. America

has the unique distinction of leading the world in the number of

children and youth killed with firearms. More than one out of

every ten childhood deaths in America during 1987 was caused by a

gun.

There are over 20 million unregistered handguns in the United

States in addition to the millions of legally licensed firearms.

Young people have access to these weapons and are carrying them in

increasing numbers. As a result, the number of gun-related

incidents at schools is rising dramatically. A 1988 survey in

Boston, Massachusetts, reported that over one-quarter of high

school students carried guns or knives, at least on occasion.

The Gun Free School Zones bill is not a panacea. It would build,

however, on other measures, including the proposed ban on assault

weapons and the Brady bill that would impose a waiting period

before purchasing a handgun. The National PTA also supports

schools working together with other community organizations to

provide students with counseling, education, and other services

they need to cope witA the fear they xperience because of gunrelated violence.

We thank Representative Edward Feighan and the other sponsors of

the Gun Free School Zones Act for their efforts to provide a safer

school environment for children.

471)

82

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78

APPENDIX 2.ARTICLE FROM TIME MAGAZINE ENTITLED,

"SHOOTOLJTS IN THE SCHOOLS," NOVEMBER 20, 1989

Education -- Shootoub in the Schools

Educators adopt tough tuttic., to cope tcrrh classroom viekncr

AIM TONI an_ At PS 93 a younr.tel

tells teacher Donald Mdkr. "Melt in has s

toy Sato toys are not allowed in Int

lunchroom. the teacher coefronts Mo.

Melvm and demands that lic

hand it over. Mame suddenly hoes not a

toy but $ "Saturday rucht special" punted at lus chest The gun turns out tn br

leaded. eceltori and ready for action

INASHINGTOPL A hamar of

gunfire erupts just outside

Woodrow Wilson High

School as clangs an Mammal far the day four students are anat, but all survive

Later, a men-alle la' ho a

not enrolled at Wilson n con-

+mood of meat with a deadly wawa The sl.trk for the

mayhem. en argument mar a

ma; on the school cafeteria.

=CAM At flinger High

School. two bays enter a math

clan and men & fight. Wbile

andante and the Umber try to

bomb it Jp, one tavola

tumor tamed Chaster Dunbar and stabs him in the back

with i krofe As the two boys

lot. Dunbar slums to tbe

classroom floor, fatally

atiunded

-If mboob ever wen *-

leach of misty within mbarwee violent ninghborheoll.

SKY certainly are no warms new boslint o( tame

hem the fectentlly fisatled Netiortaj School Safety Center at California's

Pepperdine Utuverany The renter toys .1

muIIs enmte a yew oxiar on school

pound& mak 183390 movies Tenoned in

1987. Armlets study amine* that on a

typscal dry it least 100.000 L'.S pufnls

miry 110a. sod thr firepower a pulp%

heavier

Schools, of comm. cannot be notated

front afighborhoods plegond by drup.

Asap. mhos aed poverty. Says MAW, the

meow who freed a lunderprtner s gun

"Whatever a Oa On the street amps into

the echelon '' %Mmes. however. le no

looser conSind to tough arms In an of.

Oul of Tallahawat km month one

manor shot another in death in front nf

about MO erode sehoolen Last (Or in

poets Woman's. His wombn maned firs

in lap elonemery ringworm killing an eight-year-old. Other recent ..noLl.

slayings at recurred an InnAlism. .

ca' Crn ?mood. Lario. Pla Lute

ffpnan Beach

At a result ot all the wruloww. a31001

administraian wan the US err merdt-

; mg thrtwit ught budgets lo 1usd WPM tc

beef up 16:tioni rant) If nothtng elm. the

Ulla* 'a 41 tact laltal tillittly If they haw

sot taion saes to ta mouse The Nes

mm IMMO),

Ir

la.

A nrelManals *Mr 06111601Mollen OWN.

cant memo* to Met Veriebh win In Mortud innausly. and melt owns so earlsoh

rho nowt pithhinse A1x wIsh the Mai

Am dna same Mak m Lis Aeolic

Long keels and Ointaad have whadidest

-yellow-ergs &WM' ha times km hisOugarsen IS "Ne haws to mach soalents

to hit the dock When the Wow lly." ea.

platm one emoothisem mesa

A ersekhelt maim isevy-imaded de.

tams daillaura. harsavor. ee main to de.

wk. "Wily call it Wool? Lott call it a

prom." ocoodame Robert Rubel who ewes the Teselossi Album Ix Sale

Schoch. s seam* agniory reapWild

he Sediesda. Md. He arms

ehat it is impish* ID prevent

yasslast wiolescs. Rubel

disks Moab should he ildageol is eammiling IS Wade d

disorder, handling violahoos

of Mee awe nibs and turnery;

ahem me: to the paha.

PM echooh Iss by MoodOhs& she elms Sago hog dew the Mai hase dow thou

jets Sicrinow. Calif. playLitdiming imi Hama

e path deed. Pred

bisheir, the had 011ie wheal

distfiet's psychology staff. milesis "Tasks sow

OM Wag I am the sib Mom it mei to he amd that

soosthing terrible ma hap pea at say Wow " The

youagners. he MO, ant 'dab

ing with thaws that wa hoped

they'd sewer haw to Imo: at

hael sot Ilalli they were

aditim." Hs Woman that

h saliog -will lab* ataults. Gm mac

Schoo: mebologati. MOM

anis= are lathed is hotstog or homily probIsm. Mho IMINsan spectalme to Mal with litehines' lerea-tradmauc

strew sradams." Tmchere and parents,

experts say. seed so bring hers unreelMay So tha swims Om a shaotres as

er vident epilogs owl allow Imago etude= in portioder so act ma sad talk act

the barren dwy maarissoed. Adults are

shaken as wall. At the Otiessatel. 11.0

echos& Principal baste Noe km IS Ns

in the months sitar a 10-moold sag

barged in. almocing a modem killed rev

wills lead stwasSed sins odor mph. To

hea.the new door !oche sad limhed mom

to Ow Mahal am hat guarsaihr semiso

future incidents. Mat they lam so WW1

conedesee la Madmen. pupas sad Parents "It hes Mem a mush find," dhe admits. but "we're IOU ID WIC Oa

bluer." 0,111sawelit Owls

almsraett by Awl= elodoraolae Imam ala

o iler beetrit

We hew so few* sradesera a Au Me ilee& when at be

York City schrs.0 WM Gestate us eleventh largest secunty has M ths VS Mow

toy salmon hem mad deem IS et them

um mem! daemon, ten wheals allow amp

only with computerized ID cards Cast of

all the arum), S60 mniRicwt aroma*

The forms mentality is taken Iticm)-

ly at Lmdbugh Junior Hign in Lone

Beach. Calif. After a bullet &Mod rest thr

head of DM toesiter Jaen *Nth lea mu

the sch;n1srent $60000 to !mild a 10-ft

wall to segarete the rear bounden from a

houruns project and its gang gunflahts

Reedy. for ant. is Massed "Tmehim here

.s so 6116:6 tome waled. les Irvin in

I MOW of safety. and %nu can feel the units

of the a:hoot growing and growths

Other mettrity messurm thy has%

been toted include staff training in hanWing emefgencies, patron by lushly **Mk

(mirth end mho/ vehleles. tval-vni) KattTIMi Nnt wome * len

r BE$T COPY MILAN

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79

APPENDIX 3.-STATEMENT OF JAMES JAY BAKER, DIRECTOR,

NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee:

Thank you for soliciting the views of the National Rifle

Association of America regarding H.R. 3757, the *Gun-Free School

Zones Act of 1990.* As you know, the NRA is the preeminent

organization in the world devoted to firearms safety and

education. The purposes and objectives listed in our Bylaws

include the following: "To promote public safety, law and order,

and the national defense; To train members of law enforcement

agencies, the armed forces, the militia, and people of good

repute in marksmanship and in the safe handling and efficient use

of small arms . . . " Tbe safety of our children in our schools

is, of course, of paramount importance to all honest Americans

and the nearly three million family-oriented members of the NRA.

In fact, similar measures have been enacted at the state level

without opposition from the NRA.

The NRA is also committed to the enactment of swift and

certain punishment for the criminal misuse of firearms. NRA

members were to a large degree responsible for the enactment of

tough mandatory penalties at the federal and state level for the

mere carrying of a firearm during a crime of violence. Such laws

have recently been used as part of the arsenal against gang

violence perpetrated.by the Crips a3d the Bloods. N. join with

Chairman Hughes and Ranking Minority Member McCollum in their

repeated calls to the Justice Department to step up application

of those minimum mandatory penalties. Unfortunately, felon-inpossession and penalty enhancement cases are too often seen as

nuisance cases by prosecutors.

Therein rests the central failure of H.R. 3757, as well as

the inclusion of similar language in the Senate-passed S. 1970

(Title XXXV). At a time whn federal tesources are stretched to

the breaking point and many potential cases against career

criinals and felons in possession of firearms are not being

made, H.R. 3757 preempts the states on intrastate

transport/carrying by creating a new federal offense in

duplication of or overriding many existing state statutes. There

is no state in which the carrying of a loaded firearm with

criminal intent is not a crime -- whether within the boundaries

of an arbitrarily designated school zone or on a public street.

Unless Congress intends to establish and fund a "Federal School

Patrol Division' within the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and

Firearms or within the Department of Justice -- something the NRA

would join the ACLU in adamantly opposing -- H.R. 3757 will

rr.main a political exercise completely devoid of any impact on

public safety or the lives of our children. It is not at all

surprisina that this hearing comes only two months from the

general elections. It is a symbolic gesture which will punish no

serious criminals but will likely wreck the lives of a few honest

citizens caught in a carelsmsly prepared and ineptly cast net.

This legislation is paterned after the "drug-free school

zones" measure, but the analogy is flawed. The "drug-free school

zones" statute makes a more serious federal crime of what is

8 4

Case 1:23-cr-00010-MAC-ZJH Document 22-3 Filed 02/07/23 Page 84 of 93 PageID #: 324
already a crime in all fifty states and the District of Columbia,

as well as at the federal level. H.R. 3737 creates a new federal

offense, and one which may not be an offense at the state lvel.

Indeed, it may be taking what the state constitution interprets

as a guaranteed right and making it a federal felony. The drugfree school zone concept attacks something generally outlawed --

drug possession -- and makes it a more serious felony. The gunfree school zone elevates something which is generally lawful,

indeed constitutionally protected -- firearms possession -- to

the level of a serious federal felony under certain

circumstances.

Thera are two areas in which this bill could have an impact.

First, it could provide grounds to prosecute otherwise lawabiding citizens who ar transporting firearms in compliance with

state and local law -- but in violation of this new federal

proposal. Second, it appears to give new powers to public

schools, powers previously held by the state or by the locality

in which the school is located. We are unaware of many other

fields in which public school officials have been given the

authority to regulate -- either restrictively or leniently --

activities in an area up to 1,000 feet from the grounds of a

public school. Yet H.R. 3757 appears to permit the possession cf

a gun within a public school zone -- but not on school property -

- if pursuant to a contractual relationship with the school or as

part of a program approved by the school.

While there are thus two good reasons to continue to leave

the regulation of firearms carrying and transportation to the

states by rejecting H.R. 3757, several amendments could lessen

the dangers this legislation poses to law-abiding firearms

owners.

Our principal concern is the potential prosecution of

parents who unwittingly violate the provisions of a new federal

law while dropping their children off at school on the way to the

range or a hunt. The drafters of H.R. 3757 may not realize that

their exemption for a "locke0 firearms rack" makes little sense

considering most, if not all, firearms racks are not equipped

with locks nor desisned in a way that makes addition of a padlock

a practical alternative.

The NRA recommends the following amendments:

* Prosecution should require a willful violation.

Tte penalty should be a misdemeanor that does not

prohibit otherwise law-abiding citizens from owning firearms as a

felony conviction would. This will not permit serious criminals

to escape as other felony charges will be available.

* The exemptions should be clarified by maktnq it a bar to

federal prosecution if the transporting or carrying was not

unlawful under state or local law.

* Finally, considerations of due process require

appropriate notice through posting. Signs should be posted on a

perimeter approximately 1,030 feet from each of the nation's

80,000 public schools on ach street at that point. A sign near

a school announcing a "Gun Free School Zone" with another sign

indicating "End School Zone" a few yards away would fail a due

process test since the notice provided would be conflicting and

confusing.

Thank you again for soliciting our views on this

legislation.

85

P.

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81

APPENDIX 4.-CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE: A REPORT ON GUN VIOLENCE IN OUR NATION'S SCHOOLS, SEPTEMBER 1990. SUBMITTED BY

THE CENTER TO PREVENT HANDGUN VIOLENCE

INTRODUC1TON

As children across the country return to school this week, they are facing a crisis in

education that has reached epidemic proportions violence in school. While parents have

always worried about their children's education and their abili ies to read, write and do

basic mathematics, many are also becoming horrified by a new threat. They fear that their

children may be severely injured or may not come home from school at all.

Our nation's schools, once thought to be safe havens, have fallen victim to an

increase in gun violence, and educators and children are caught in the crossfire. One old,

but true education adage goes, "Schools are reflections of their communities." This is

particularly true when it comes to gun violence. As the Center to Prevent Handgun

Violence worked on this rcport, one fact became very clear if a community suffers from

gun violence, its schoolchildren also suffer.

AiISTRACT

This report, "Caught In The Crossfire: A Report on Gun Violence In Our Nation's

Schools," focuses on the increasing gun violence occurring in and around our schools. In

the past four academic years, beginning in September 1986:

At least 71 people - 65 students and 6 school employees - have been killed with guns

at school; another 201 were severely wounded; and 242 individuals were held

hostage at gunpoint.

Shootings or hostage situations in schools have occurred in at least 35 states

and the District of Columbia.

Males are most freauently the offenders (93%) as well as the victims (76%).

Schoolchildren aged 14-17 are most at risk of gun violence at school.

Gun violence in schools occurs most often in hallways (25%) and in classrooms

(19%).

6

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82

Gang or drug disputes were the leading cause of school gun violence (18%). Longstanding arguments (15%), romantic disagreements (12%), fights over material

possessions (10%), and accidents (13%) are also common.

Handguns were the overwhelming choice of firearm (75%) for those who committed

gun violence in schools.

METHOD'

The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence examined gun violence in both public and

private schools during the past four academic years. beginning with September 1986. The

information in this report was abstracted from more than 2,500 news stories in our nation's

newspapers. For purposes of this study, we examined all incidents which we were able to

uncover where shootings occurred at school during school functions Of where individuals

held others hostage at gunpoint on school property during school functions. The Center

examined 227 such incidents in this report. It should be noted that tbe accuracy and

frequency of the information in this report is based solely on newspaper accounts. This

method was necessary because only the state of California requires that such information

be publicly disclosed.

RESULTS

During the past four school years, at least 71 people have been killed with guns at

school (Table 1). At least another 201 were severely wounded. In addition, at least 242

individuals were held hostage by gun wielding assailants.

Table I: Individual Deaths or Woundings

Ikailu Wounding& Tata

Students 65 186 251

School Employees _LI _21

Total 71 201 272

School shootings or hostage taking occurred in 35 states and the District of

Columbia (Table 2). Besides the most populated states having the most incidents, there

was no clear geographic pattern for gun violence in school. It seemed to strike every area

of the country.

2

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83

Table 2: Number of Incidents, Deaths, and Wounding: By State

SW{ ft Ineidenig Dzathi Mandl=

California 29 16 45

Florida 25 10 10

New York 23 3 21

Texas 17 4 10

Georgia 14 1 15

Maryland 10 1 9

Michigan 9 3 6

Missouri 8 3 6

North Carolina 7 0 12

Illinois 7 7 12

Alabama 5 1 4

Arizona 5 1 2

Arkansas 5 3 4

New Jersey 5 2

,

.., Oregon 5 1 0

South Carolina 5 2 9

Tennessee 5 1 2

Connecticut 4 0 2

Louisiana 4 2 2

Pennsylvania 4 0 3

Virginia 4 2 3

Washington 4 0 2

Mississippi 3 0 3

Ohio 3 0 2

Dist. of Columbia 2 1 4

Kentucky 2 1 0

Massachusetts 2 0 2

Oklahoma 2 0 2

Rhode Island 2 1 2

Colorado 1 0 1

Indiana 1 1 0

Iowa 1 0 1

Minnesota 1 0 0

Montana I 3 1

Nevada 1 0 1

Utah 1 ...1 _.0

Total 227 71 201

Most of these incidents took place in high schools (Table 3). Incidents were more

than twice as likely to occur in high schools than any other level.

3

R 8

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84

Pre-Selwat

Bersiam7 Saari

Table 3. Schools Affected wt.

By Gan Violence

Four types of gun violence were recorded in this report (intentional shootings of or

at other individuals, suicide, accidental shootings, and hostage taking at gunpoint).

Intentional shootings of or at other individuals were reported four times more frequently

than any other type (Table 4). Accidental shootings were the second most common form.

Table 4. Types of Gun Violence

Males were far more likely to be the offenders in school shootings and hostage

takings (Table 5). Males were also more likely to be the victims or targets of school

shootings (Table 6). Please note that one or more persons could have been the offenders

and victims of gun violence, and this is reflected in these numbers.

Table 5: Offenders

Males 260 (93%)

Females 20 (7%)

Table 6: Victims or Targets

Males 270 (76%)

Females 85 (24%)

Youngsters aged 14-17 were most likely to be the offenders and victims of gun

violence (Table 7). When students. 12 and under, were the victims of gun violence in

schools. 94 percent of the students were victimized by adults. When students. 13 and older.

4

8 ;)

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85 were victims, 82 percent of the offenders were other students or other teenagers who came onschool campuses. Table 7: Age Break lows of Offenders and Victims thsModem YistimaaLlausu Adults 2338 19

8

7 181718 174849 165346 154337 143130 131813 1212

4 11

1

2 10

2

7

9

012

8

125

7

217

6

110

5

1

3 Undetermined Teen 1920 Undetermined Child _Q

a TOTAL 280 355 There was not one major cause for gun violence inschools (Table IP. Rather, there were five causes that sparked most of the incidents gang-drug related activity, continuations of long-standing disagreements, playing with or cleaning guns inschools, fights over material possessions, and romantic disagreements. Table 8: Root Causes for Gun Violence inSchools Cams Incidints Emmet Drugs/Gangs 4018% Long-Standing Disagreements 3515% Playing with or Cleaning guns3013% Romantic Disagreements (continued onnext page) 2712%

5

9

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86

F 'its over Material

Possessions 22 10%

Depression 21 9%

Vendetta Against Society 14 6%

Racial 12 5%

Name Calling 10 4%

Vendetta Against School

Emplo Yee 8 4%

Undetermined 8 4%

Handguns were the weapon of choice for students and adults who committed gunrelated violence in schools (Table 9).

Table 9. Weapons

RI&

Activities during the regular school day were the most common for scnool shootings

and hostage takings (Table 10). Periods between classes were the most common times for

shootings, followed by actual classroom learning situations.

Table 10: Activities When Gun Violence in School Occurs

Act Ma lacidints PIECCIllan

Between Classes 72 32%

During Class 51 22%

After School 36 16%

Lunchtime 20 8%

Athletic Events 20 8%

Transporting to and

from SchXd (buses) 15 7%

Befzre School 11 5%

School Carnival 1 1%

Transporting to Field

Trip 1 1%

6

91

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JIM 87

Most of the shootings and hostage taking occurred inside schools, with hallway and

classroom being the most common locations (Table 11). A sizable number occurred on

school grounds and areas located adjacent to school grounds.

Table 11: Locations of Shootings or Hostage Takings

Lissa= laddenta bantam

Hallways 57 25%

Classrooms 44 19%

School Grounds 35 15%

Adjacent Property 20 9%

Athletic Facilities 19 8%

School Buses !.6 7%

School Parking Lot 11 5%

Cafeteria 8 4%

RestrOom 5 2%

Auditorium 1 1%

Undetermined 11 5%

PREVIOUS DATA ON GUN VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS

Based on a national survey of students, the National School Safety Center estimated

that 135,000 boys carried guns to school daily in 1987. An estimated 270,000 others carried

guns to school at least once during the year.

In California, the only state that publishes annual data on school gun confiscations, the number of gun incidents increased 40 percent in the 1988-89 school year over the

previous year. In the last four years, a 100 percent overall increase was reported, including

a 50 percent rise in elementary schools and 80 percent increase in middle schools. The

increase at the high school level was 142 percent.

In Florida, a 42 percent increase in gun incidents was reported during the 1987-88

school year. The rate in Florida has maintain this high level. The Clicago Public Schools

reported a 50 percent rise in gun incidents in 1988. Hundreds of other school systems,

from the Seattle, Washington, school district to the Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools in North Carolina, have reported similar trends in recent years.

CONCLUSION

Guns and gun violence are a growing concern among educators, students, and

parents. While this study examined actual violence, i.e. shootings and hostage taking at gunpoint, we must also be concerned with the potential for gun violence that exists in our nation's schools. With an estimated 400,000 boys carrying handguns to school yearly, there

is a tremendous potential for even greater rates of death, injury, and violence.

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There are many reasons why gun violence is increasing in our schools. But, one simple factor leading to these shootings must not be overlooked - the sheer availability of guns in America. For every household in the country there are two guns in the bands of private ci6sens. Often these suns are falling into the hands of younp stets sad they are ending up in schools. A repot.; issued by the Florida School Boards Association found that 86 percent of the weapons confiscated from students in 1986-88 came from students' homes.

Our nation's parents, educators, ial-i.makers and law enforcement officials must work together to reduce the gun violence in our schools. Students must be educated about the great danger involved in carrying guns and the real facts about gun violence. Parents must be informed about the steps they can take to reduce the making sure youngsters potential for violence - i.e., do not have access to guns in the home. And, lawmakers enforcement officials must work and law together to make sure that those who carry guns and those who commit gun violence on school property receive swift, severe punishment.

There is no place in our nation's schools for guns and gun violence. We must act now if we are going to reduce the tragic toll guns in schools are taking upon our children and our nation's future.

This report was written and supervieed by Dennis Smith, the Center's director of public education. Barbara Lantana, Vanessa Schener Center contributed to the and Jacqueline Sternberg of the completion of this report.

All information in this study is based solely on the accuracy and frequency of newspaper articles from across the country.

8

93

35-526 (96)

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