1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

2 FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS

3 SHERMAN DIVISION

4

5 USA FOOTBALL, INC.,

6

7 Plaintiff, Case No. 4:23-CV-00465-ALM and

8 4:23-cv-00516-ALM

9 vs.

10 FFWCT, LLC; USA FLAG, LLC; and

11 TRAVIS BURNETT,

12

13 Defendants.

14 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _/

15

16 DEPONENT: J. SCOTT HALLENBECK

17 DATE: Wednesday, March 20, 2024

18 TIME: 10:30 a.m.

19 LOCATION: Zoom Video Conference

20 REPORTER: Shari J. Pavlovich, CSR-5926

21 VIDEOGRAPHER: Bailey Wellman

22 JOB NO: 29294

23

24

25

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 1 of 10 PageID #: 2764
Page 2

1 APPEARANCES:

2 MS. AMIE N. PEELE

3 MS. ANNE K. RICCHIUTO

4 Peele Law Group

5 49 Boone Village, Box 299

6 Zionsville, IN 46077

7 202.964.4500

8 apeele@peelelawgroup.com

9 aricchiuto@peelelawgroup.com

10 Appearing for Plaintiff

11

12 MR. MARK D. NIELSEN

13 MR. TAYLOR L. HARRIS

14 Scheef & Stone, L.L.P.

15 2600 Network Blvd., Suite 400

16 Frisco, TX 75034

17 214.472.2100

18 mark.nielsen@solidcounsel.com

19 taylor.harris@solidcounsel.com

20 Appearing for Defendants

21 - - -

22

23

24

25

Page 3

1 TABLE OF CONTENTS

2 WITNESS: J. SCOTT HALLENBECK PAGE

3

4 Examination By Mr. Nielsen 6

5 Examination By Ms. Ricchiuto 178

6 - - -

7

8 QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER

9 Page 141, Line 7

10 Page 142, Line 11

11 Page 152, Line 3

12 Page 153, Line 16

13 - - -

14 EXHIBITS

15 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT PAGE

16 Exhibit 513 Amended Notice of Deposition 8

17 Exhibit 514 LinkedIn page 12

18 Exhibit 515 USA Football application to 30

19 USOC Membership, USAFB0582-96

20 Exhibit 516 7/24/2017 Proposal for USA 62

21 Football, USAFB_1101-16

22 Exhibit 517 Event Collaboration Agreement, 80

23 USAFB_0700-08

24 Exhibit 518 USA Football Overview 122

25 Document, USAFB_668-669

Page 4

1 EXHIBITS (continued)

2 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT PAGE

3 Exhibit 519 7/10/2015 Email string with 125

4 attachment, USAFB_1480-87

5 Exhibit 520 4/11/2022 Email string, 135

6 FFWCT8263

7 Exhibit 521 Texts, USAFB_879 and 136

8 USAFB_908.

9 Exhibit 522 Texts, USAFB_820 and USAFB_869 136

10 Exhibit 523 2/8/2018 Email string, 144

11 USAFB_679-681

12 Exhibit 524 **AEO, USA Football Flag 147

13 Document, USAFB_1536-1540**

14 Exhibit 525 Draft Proposed Partnership 156

15 Terms, USAFB_1078

16 Exhibit 526 7/26/2018 Email with 159

17 attachment, USAFB_844-845

18 Exhibit 527 5/18/2020 Letter, USAFB224-27 163

19 Exhibit 528 6/8/2020 Letter, USAFB_003-004 166

20 Exhibit 529 9/21/2022 Letter, Exhibit J to 169

21 USA Football Complaint

22 Exhibit 530 10/3/2022 Letter, USA 172

23 Football's Exhibit K to

24 Complaint

25 - - -

Page 5

1 Wednesday, March 20, 2024

2 About 10:30 a.m.

3 - - -

4 VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We are now

5 on the record at 10:30 a.m. on Wednesday,

6 March 20th, 2024. This begins the videotape

7 deposition of Scott Hallenbeck taken in the matter

8 of USA Football versus FFWCT, USA Flag, and Travis

9 Burnett Case Number 4:23-cv-00516-ALM.

10 My name is Bailey Wellman. I'm your

11 remote videographer today. Our court reporter is

12 Shari Pavlovich. We are both representing Fortz

13 Legal Support.

14 As a courtesy, will everyone who is not

15 speaking, please mute your audio. And remember to

16 unmute your audio when you're ready to speak.

17 Counsel, will you please state your name

18 and whom you represent, after which our court

19 reporter will swear in the witness.

20 MR. NIELSEN: Mark Nielsen, representing

21 FFWCT, LLC, et al.

22 MS. RICCHIUTO: I'm Anne Ricchiuto from

23 Peele Law Group for USA Football.

24 MS. PEELE: I'm Amie Peele for Peele Law

25 Group for USA Football.

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 2 of 10 PageID #: 2765
Page 6

1 MR. NIELSEN: Taylor, did you want to

2 note your appearance before we go forward?

3 MR. HARRIS: Sure. Taylor Harris on

4 behalf of FFWCT, et al, as well.

5 - - -

6 J. SCOTT HALLENBECK,

7 having affirmed or been duly sworn, was

8 examined and testified as follows:

9 EXAMINATION

10 BY MR. NIELSEN:

11 Q Good morning, Mr. Hallenbeck. How are you?

12 A Good. How you doing?

13 Q Good, thank you.

14 Have you ever had your deposition taken

15 before in a legal proceeding?

16 A Yes.

17 Q So you're familiar with the basic approach. I ask

18 questions. Your Counsel may object to my

19 questions, and you'll give me your best answers.

20 You understand that?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And unless your Counsel specifically instructs you

23 not to answer, you understand you need to answer my

24 questions to the best of your ability; correct?

25 A Yes.

Page 7

1 Q And just for the court reporter's sake, I know

2 these things can get a little bit conversational.

3 We might nod our heads or shake our heads.

4 We need to do our best to give answers so

5 the court reporter can get the verbal down. They

6 can't transcribe a head nod or a head shake.

7 Is that okay?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And doing this remotely, presents one modest

10 challenge. I think we'll be fine with it.

11 We'll do our best not to interrupt each

12 other. You'll let me get through my questions.

13 I'll do my best to -- you know, both of

14 us will do our best; right?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Okay, great. And I'm going to mark some Exhibits

17 during the deposition. And the videographer will

18 put them up on the screen for you to see.

19 And at times I may say, Hand over control

20 to the witness. And you can literally scroll and

21 look through the Exhibit. If you need it zoomed or

22 anything, just say the word, and we'll make that

23 happen.

24 And if you need a break for any reason,

25 restroom, just need to stretch, unless I'm right in

Page 8

1 the middle of a line of questioning, not a problem.

2 Just let me know.

3 A Yeah, appreciate that.

4 Q Can you state your full name for the record,

5 please?

6 A Yes. So J., just the letter "J", Scott Hallenbeck.

7 Q And is that H-A-L-L-E-N-B-E-C-K?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Where are you located right now?

10 A Caramel, Indiana.

11 Q Okay. Is anyone in the room with you where you

12 are?

13 A No.

14 Q Are you at the USA Football offices?

15 A No. I'm in my home office.

16 Q Okay.

17 MR. NIELSEN: So what I want to do first

18 is, Ms. Videographer, if you would be so kind as to

19 just put up tab 1, which we will mark as

20 Exhibit 513.

21 This is the just the Amended Notice of

22 Deposition of Mr. Hallenbeck.

23 (Deposition Exhibit 513 was marked for

24 identification.)

25

Page 9

1 BY MR. NIELSEN:

2 Q And Mr. Hallenbeck, have you seen this document

3 before right now?

4 A No. I don't believe so.

5 Q Okay. But you understand you're here today to give

6 a deposition in these two cases that are sort of

7 merged together between USA Football and FFWCT,

8 et al; correct?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And do you know who my clients are, FFWCT, LLC;

11 correct?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And USA Flag, LLC; correct?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And Travis Burnett?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And you understand that there are essentially

18 lawsuits going in each direction between the

19 parties to this case; correct?

20 A Yes.

21 Q And you understand that my clients, FFWCT, et al,

22 are a Defendant -- or Defendants, excuse me, in the

23 case that you all filed for trademark infringement;

24 correct?

25 A Yes.

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 3 of 10 PageID #: 2766
Page 18

1 summer is the '24 men's and women's flag world

2 championships in Finland. So we would have worked

3 a number of years ago with the Finnish Federation

4 to say, you know, Are you prepared to host this?

5 What kind of a venue do you have? What

6 would the television strategy be, et cetera.

7 Things like that.

8 So sort of business-oriented things to

9 help improve the overall quality of the growth of

10 the sport, you know, how we operate and run the

11 federation. Not unlike, you know, how we have to

12 run our own federations.

13 Let's see, and then -- then ultimately,

14 again, coordinating with the roughly 70 members in

15 various shapes and forms. I mean some, you know,

16 need grants because they're just getting -- just

17 trying to grow football whether it be flag or

18 tackle in Africa.

19 So how can we help them? So there's

20 ways, whether that's the International Federation

21 or some of the member federations, like USA

22 Football or Football Canada, that have more

23 experience and might even have more capacity to try

24 to help out. It's those kind of things.

25 MR. NIELSEN: Ms. Videographer, you can

Page 19

1 take down that Exhibit. Thank you.

2 BY MR. NIELSEN:

3 Q And who decides at IFAF which organization in a

4 particular member country is going to be the IFAF

5 recognized entity, if you will?

6 Let's use flag football, for example.

7 Who decides -- well, let me strike that.

8 Is USA Football the IFAF-recognized

9 entity for football in the United States?

10 A Yes. So we're the sole member of the International

11 Federation of American football for the

12 United States of America.

13 Q Who decides who is the member for a particular

14 country?

15 A Ultimately, it is the Congress, itself. So at the

16 Congress meeting, meaning a combination of the

17 board, the continental representatives, and the

18 full membership, membership is presented.

19 And there is a qualification process that

20 you have to go through. And ultimately, it is put

21 up for a vote by the membership.

22 And they -- the membership decides if

23 that respective country -- or I should say, I

24 guess, entity within that respective country is

25 worthy and meets all the requirements and

Page 20

1 ultimately should be approved to be the member.

2 Q Okay. And with respect to your position at IFAF,

3 do you have any ability to, like, as vice

4 president, to veto or sort of reject, separate and

5 apart from the membership, a particular entity

6 trying to become the IFAF-recognized, you know,

7 entity for a particular country in flag football?

8 A No.

9 Q And when did USA Football become recognized for

10 football in the U.S.?

11 A The best of my recollection it was -- well, so I

12 believe 2004. So before my time with USA Football.

13 You probably know this, but USA Football

14 was endowed by the NFL and the Players' Association

15 as an independent nonprofit organization back in

16 December of 2002.

17 I believe my predecessor, at some point

18 between that December of 2018 -- and I think

19 sometime in 2004, you know, it had engaged with

20 IFAF at the time and became -- they became the

21 member.

22 And as best I recall, my predecessor

23 actually was on the board. So when he departed to

24 go back to USA Hockey, I was asked to join the

25 board in his place.

Page 21

1 And I've been, again, in some capacity on

2 that board ever since. So roughly sort of that

3 August, September, October, call it the fall of

4 2005. But we were already -- so USA Football was

5 already a member.

6 Q And just for reference, who was your predecessor at

7 USA Football that you referenced?

8 A Dave Ogrean.

9 Q Okay.

10 A He was the first.

11 Q Do you know how to spell that last name?

12 A O-G-R-E-A-N, I believe.

13 Q Okay. And does a member country that's recognized

14 by IFAF ever come up for, like, sort of a renewal

15 where their membership has to be, for lack of a

16 better word, revalidated?

17 Or is it, like, once you're a member,

18 you're always a member, and that's it?

19 A Generally speaking, you're a -- you continue to be

20 a member as long as you're in what we call good

21 standing.

22 You know, if you pay your annual

23 membership dues, if you follow the basic

24 requirements of membership, then there really

25 shouldn't be a situation where you are, I guess,

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 4 of 10 PageID #: 2767
Page 98

1 pursue that and, you know, rebrand themselves USA

2 Flag, that crossed the red line as far as we're

3 concerned. And again, we had to take action.

4 So separate issues I would tell you very

5 clearly, but again, unfortunately, within --

6 there's a whole series of things that FFWCT had to

7 do here that we were -- had to do.

8 We felt -- and you know, I wasn't at all

9 these events. My team manages this stuff. They're

10 responsible for this.

11 They would come back and report that at

12 the events where you -- I think you touched on it

13 earlier, the section that referred to, you know,

14 cross-promotion, sort of, proactive collaboration;

15 an understanding and again, a communication out to

16 the constituents that USA Football has this role.

17 They're the Governing Body. They're here to scout.

18 They have a national team program.

19 We're FFWCT. We're putting on this

20 event, et cetera. We're a strong event -- adult

21 tournament amateur operator. You know, they

22 often -- FFWCT wouldn't do it.

23 They wouldn't actually send out the

24 communications. They didn't have a space for us on

25 site. There was a series of issues where they just

Page 99

1 didn't meet the requirements of the agreement.

2 And ultimately, we said they just aren't

3 operating in a collaborative way and as a good

4 partner. And we're going to end the agreement.

5 It -- at the time it wasn't about USA

6 Flag because obviously, they didn't choose to go

7 down that path yet. It was about their lack of

8 performance per the agreement and recognizing each

9 other. So that was the concern.

10 Ultimately, quite candidly, I say this

11 with respect but very candidly, as I reflect on

12 now, all of the history of this, I believe Travis

13 was intending to move towards USA Flag and

14 intending to try to become the Governing Body and

15 all these things that we, you know, tried to

16 respectfully counsel them against.

17 That was his intention all along. And I

18 don't think he was operating in a professional or

19 respectful business manner. That's the way I look

20 at it.

21 BY MR. NIELSEN:

22 Q Do you believe USA Football being the National

23 Governing Body for flag football in the

24 United States is a right that you have?

25 A USA Football --

Page 100

1 MS. RICCHIUTO: Objection to the extent

2 it calls for a legal conclusion.

3 THE WITNESS: Yeah. USA Football is the

4 Governing Body, given that it's the sole member of

5 the International Federation in the U.S.

6 We've been operating, as you saw, since

7 2004, really, as that member. And we've had -- we

8 have a history within that certainly before my

9 time, but 2005 thereafter.

10 I think 2007 was at least the first time

11 I was involved in a national championship where you

12 put national teams together, et cetera.

13 It started more with tackle than it did

14 flag. But over the course of my entire tenure,

15 we've had multiple tackle-related national team

16 world championships, continental championships, as

17 well as flag.

18 So we've operated clearly with great

19 precedence in this space, as that. And lo and

20 behold, nowhere, even after respectful education,

21 counsel, Travis and Charles chose to pursue USA

22 Flag.

23 MR. NIELSEN: Ms. Reporter, can you read

24 back my question, please.

25 (Record repeated.)

Page 101

1 MS. RICCHIUTO: And I'll state my same

2 objection and object as to form.

3 BY MR. NIELSEN:

4 Q Right. Mr. Hallenbeck, kind of a "yes" or "no"

5 question, if you'd be so kind. Do you believe --

6 A We're not -- we -- again, we are not the National

7 Governing Body. We're the Governing Body, number

8 one.

9 And number two, we do have the right to

10 operate in that capacity as the sole member of the

11 International Federation and a regional -- excuse

12 me, recognized sport organization of the USOPC.

13 Q Okay. Earlier you had mentioned there was a point

14 in time when the USOPC, in some manner, contacted

15 USA Football and asked that you not refer to

16 yourselves as National Governing Body.

17 Do you recall saying that?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Approximately when did that happen? Was that the

20 2020, early 2021 time frame you had referenced?

21 A Yeah. I don't -- I don't recall the exact time. I

22 believe it was around that because that's when,

23 again, the Ted Stevens Act was changed.

24 And ultimately, the USOPC was given the

25 very specific responsibility of quote, unquote

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 5 of 10 PageID #: 2768
Page 102

1 certifying NGBs.

2 So again, to be clear, they had not had

3 that responsibility in the past. That was, sort

4 of, newly, I guess, required of them. And again,

5 you'd have to talk to USOPC, specifically.

6 But I believe it really formally started

7 in '21 where they literally had to take every

8 existing Governing Body back through this quote,

9 unquote certification process.

10 And then that's obviously what we've been

11 invited to participate in now.

12 Q Do you recall how that was communicated to USA

13 Football by the USOPC in terms of not saying

14 "National"?

15 A I just recall them -- I think it was with our --

16 probably Ryan Horning at the time, I presume, our

17 in-house general counsel at the time would have --

18 there would have been some, sort of, probably just

19 a -- I imagine a phone call. I don't believe

20 there's anything in writing.

21 It's a phone call, I believe, where they

22 just say, basic things have evolved, things have

23 changed. You are an RSO. Here's all the rights

24 and, you know, obligations and opportunities around

25 RSO.

Page 103

1 You cannot call yourself a National

2 Governing Body until which time the sport or

3 discipline of the sport is in the Olympics. So

4 they simply explained how that whole process had

5 been, I guess, more official now than ever around

6 that time.

7 Q And you mentioned Ryan Horning. He's no longer at

8 USA Football; correct?

9 A No.

10 Q And he was the in-house general counsel for some

11 period of time at USA Football?

12 A Correct.

13 Q Approximately how long ago did he leave USA

14 Football?

15 A Good question. So I'd have to go back and

16 double-check that. I want to say it's either near

17 the end of '21 or '22, in that general time frame.

18 Q Okay. Now, does -- I believe you mentioned this

19 before but I just want to confirm.

20 USA Football does not run adult flag

21 tournaments. Would that be correct? Or operate

22 might be a better one.

23 A So depends on the context. So we don't run -- we

24 will run tournaments that are specific to our high

25 performance pathway, which basically means our

Page 104

1 pathway to our national championship and/or our

2 national team development program.

3 So our events could include, for example,

4 adults -- men's and women's; youth 17, because we

5 have a national team at the youth 17, girls and

6 boys; as well as 15s, boys and girls. And now

7 we're expanding it to include USA Select Teams.

8 So anyway, that will continue to grow.

9 And so there will be adult teams participating at

10 our national championship.

11 We call it The One, but not in the same

12 context, at least from my view, as a traditional

13 tournament operator -- one that runs, like, you

14 know, many tournaments throughout a season or a

15 year.

16 We don't do it that way. It's very

17 specific to our high performance pathway and to our

18 national team pathway.

19 Q What is USA Football's target market in terms of

20 flag, adult flag?

21 A Yes.

22 MS. RICCHIUTO: Object to form.

23 THE WITNESS: I mean, so first and

24 foremost, it is to identify the quote, unquote,

25 elite athletes that would be eligible and invited

Page 105

1 to participate in our high performance pathway,

2 hopefully up to and including making the national

3 team.

4 BY MR. NIELSEN:

5 Q When you say identifying these elite athletes, is

6 that through scouting them at tournaments run by

7 other entities?

8 A That is certainly one way to do it, yes.

9 Q What are the other ways?

10 A There's something called talent transfer in the

11 Olympic movement. So a good example is bobsled,

12 USA bobsled. Not a sport that you necessarily grow

13 up participating in.

14 So they actually do -- they solicit

15 football players, as an example. So we're doing a

16 similar thing. We're looking at, Well, I mean,

17 just about anyone -- basketball, volleyball,

18 basketball.

19 We're in the process, certainly learning

20 what are the certain type of biomechanics and, you

21 know, body shape, size, movement, skills. Like,

22 all this, again, is somewhat new to us.

23 So we're working with a lot of these

24 movement experts and sport development and human

25 development experts that are helping to counsel us,

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 6 of 10 PageID #: 2769
Page 106

1 these are the kind of athletes you need to be

2 successful in your sport.

3 But there is something called talent

4 transfer. So we will do something, like, called a

5 digital combine where we'll invite athletes around

6 the country to, you know, execute a version of a

7 combine. Measurable testing and other things,

8 movement skills.

9 And potentially invite them to come. So

10 basically we're trying to cast as wide a net as

11 possible. But certainly the existing, again, adult

12 amateur community or marketplace is a -- is a

13 natural place for us to go scout.

14 Q And would that be, what you just said, a good

15 synopsis of USA Football's role in the flag

16 football industry?

17 MS. RICCHIUTO: Object to form and to the

18 extent it misstates the testimony.

19 THE WITNESS: So I mean, again, certainly

20 part of what our responsibility is. Not all of it,

21 but it's certainly part as it relates to the high

22 performance and national team pathway. There's a

23 combination of things. It's again, building out

24 the pathway, itself.

25 So we're doing that and getting in

Page 107

1 concert with experts in sport performance, sport

2 development, et cetera, nutrition, mental health,

3 et cetera, et cetera.

4 And then ultimately trying to figure out

5 where and how we can, sort of, apply that to the

6 marketplace -- whether that's through standards;

7 whether that's through educational events; whether

8 that's through camps and clinics.

9 All of those things are, sort of, in the

10 works, trying to figure out the best way to do

11 that. But specifically to -- trying to scout and

12 ultimately bring athletes in its current form, to,

13 like, at trials, that -- then yes, we will -- one

14 of the things we'll do -- which I guess, at least

15 two of the things.

16 We look at talent transfer opportunities

17 and/or scouting opportunities to identify

18 prospective candidates for that pathway.

19 BY MR. NIELSEN:

20 Q Does USA Football engage with kind of the

21 community-level flag football organizations at some

22 level, even like our client, FFWCT?

23 A I mean, yeah. I think we --

24 MS. RICCHIUTO: Objection to form.

25 THE WITNESS: -- have an example right

Page 108

1 here. Yeah. We have -- we're certainly looking to

2 do it.

3 But again, as I've tried to articulate,

4 we have to maintain and promote and, you know,

5 frankly, try to get established, what I call

6 sanctioning guidelines and standards, best

7 practices.

8 Things to ensure that the -- that

9 frankly, there's a tier or two or three above what

10 at least I've experienced and we've experienced.

11 And again, respectfully, is what I'll refer to as

12 adult amateur play, like, we're not -- we're not

13 suggesting for a second that that should go away.

14 There's a place for that. It's a great

15 outlet for people to go experience sport and

16 activity and so forth.

17 What we ultimately need in terms of the

18 quality of the athlete, the discipline of the

19 athlete, you know, passing drug tests, those kind

20 of things.

21 You know, there just needs to be a

22 different tier. So yes, we want to and will

23 continue to seek out opportunities to have

24 conversations.

25 I mean, an example is the -- again, that

Page 109

1 group I referenced, the American Flag Football

2 League, you know refers to themselves as a

3 professional league.

4 We're in discussions with them,

5 identifying athletes. A lot of our national

6 athletes actually play in that.

7 At the youth level, if you're asking

8 entirely at the youth level, it's a different

9 strategy. It's more about how can we support that

10 growth of what I refer to as the bottom of the

11 pyramid, the foundation of the pyramid.

12 Whether that's grants; whether that's

13 coaching, education; whether that's, again, rules.

14 The myriad of things that will try to help them,

15 again, both grow the sport, but also grow it in a

16 quality, meaningful, standard-based way.

17 So we try to do all those things. And at

18 least at the moment, the focus would be, you know,

19 sort of, just have fun, stay in the sport. Be

20 developed from five years old to 10 or 12 years

21 old.

22 And then roughly around that 12-year-old

23 age range -- again, we're working through these

24 things. But roughly around that time we start

25 to -- this is the way most sports work.

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 7 of 10 PageID #: 2770
Page 178

1 EXAMINATION

2 BY MS. RICCHIUTO:

3 Q So Scott, this is taking back pretty early in the

4 deposition. You were talking about a conversation

5 that you had in your office with Travis. And you

6 were talking about expressing concerns to him about

7 creating confusion around NGB.

8 Do you remember giving that testimony?

9 A Um-hmm, yes.

10 Q And I want to make sure that the record is clear

11 about, kind of, the scope of the concerns that were

12 expressed to Travis during that meeting.

13 For example, is one of the concerns that

14 you expressed during that meeting around just

15 simply their use of the name "USA Flag"?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And tell me if you remember what you shared with

18 him about those concerns.

19 A So again, the context was we were getting to know

20 each other. So I think it was a respectful and, at

21 least in my view, a moment to educate.

22 And I say that, again, respectfully and

23 humbly, that, you know, while I appreciate your

24 ambitions with this notion of calling yourself USA

25 Flag, please understand that USA Football already

Page 179

1 serves in that capacity.

2 We've already executed and attended five

3 world championships and tackle world championships.

4 And while our name is USA Football, football --

5 under football are multiple disciplines.

6 This is not unlike USA basketball that

7 has disciplines of fives and threes and wheelchair

8 basketball. Not unlike hockey that has in-line

9 skating and, you know, ice hockey and other various

10 forms that I don't know.

11 Beach volleyball and regular volleyball.

12 This is just the way it is, certainly in

13 international sport and Olympic sport.

14 I was simply trying to say, Hey, this --

15 this isn't a good way to move forward. This would

16 be a concern.

17 And Oh, by the way, we're already doing

18 this. We're already in this role, as was asked of

19 me earlier. I mean, that's why we simply said no.

20 This is a nonstarter. You presenting this kind of

21 structure to us, this proposal is a nonstarter

22 because as far as we're concerned, it already

23 exists.

24 We can look at quote, unquote

25 collaboration and strategic alignment and other

Page 180

1 ways. Again, as I've stated to you, are at the

2 time, certainly a growing adult amateur tournament

3 operator. There's value in that space.

4 We want to figure out more about it and

5 how we can eventually collaborate and work

6 together, but that was really the message.

7 And what I'll call, you know, an

8 educational opportunity or learning opportunity for

9 him, unfortunately seemed like it fell on deaf

10 ears. But that was basically the prep and the

11 conversation.

12 Q So is this a fair summary, Scott, to say, that the

13 concerns you shared that day included any kind of

14 misunderstanding that he might have about the

15 Governing Body concept and USA Football's position

16 in that space. That's one concern; correct?

17 A Yes.

18 MR. NIELSEN: Objection --

19 THE WITNESS: Made that very clear.

20 BY MS. RICCHIUTO:

21 Q And then --

22 MR. NIELSEN: Objection, leading to the

23 last question.

24 BY MS. RICCHIUTO:

25 Q And then did you also communicate to Travis

Page 181

1 specifically that you were concerned about use of

2 the name USA Flag?

3 A Yes.

4 MR. NIELSEN: Same objection.

5 MS. RICCHIUTO: That's all the questions

6 I have.

7 MR. NIELSEN: I do not have any further

8 questions.

9 So Mr. Hallenbeck, thank you for your

10 time. I think we formally just kind of --

11 MS. RICCHIUTO: Sorry, I just wanted to

12 make sure, read and sign, while we're still on.

13 MR. NIELSEN: Yeah.

14 VIDEOGRAPHER: Are we all set to go off

15 the record?

16 MR. NIELSEN: Do you want to put any kind

17 of stipulation on the record, Anne?

18 MS. RICCHIUTO: Regarding?

19 MR. NIELSEN: Well, the only thing I

20 would note is if after, let's say, 21 days, there

21 is no signature, it will be deemed signed with no

22 changes.

23 MS. RICCHIUTO: In my -- usually don't we

24 get 30 days for signature?

25 MR. NIELSEN: Okay. 30 days. Is that

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 8 of 10 PageID #: 2771
Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 9 of 10 PageID #: 2772
Page 186

1 DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET

2

3 Reason for change:_____________________

4 Page No.____Line No.___Change to:______

5 _______________________________________

6 Reason for change:_____________________

7 Page No.____Line No.___Change to:______

8 _______________________________________

9 Reason for change:_____________________

10 Page No.____Line No.___Change to:______

11 _______________________________________

12 Reason for change:_____________________

13 Page No.____Line No.___Change to:______

14 _______________________________________

15 Reason for change:_____________________

16 Page No.____Line No.___Change to:______

17 _______________________________________

18 Reason for change:_____________________

19 Page No.____Line No.___Change to:______

20 _______________________________________

21

22 SIGNATURE:_________________DATE:_______

23 J. SCOTT HALLENBECK

24

25

Case 4:23-cv-00465-ALM Document 75-4 Filed 06/22/24 Page 10 of 10 PageID #: 2773