PUBLIC HEARING ON

PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE

FEDERAL RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE

JUDICIAL CONFERENCE

ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON CIVIL RULES

U. S. District Courthouse, Special Proceedings Courtroom

401 Washington Street, Phoenix, AZ 85003

January 4, 2019 
List of Confirmed Witnesses for the

Public Hearing on Proposed Amendments to the 

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 

Judicial Conference Advisory Committee on Civil Rules 

U. S. District Courthouse, Special Proceedings Courtroom

401 Washington Street, Phoenix, AZ 85003 

January 4, 2019 – 9:00 A.M. 

Witness Name Organization Testimony / Comments

1 Jennie Lee Anderson Andrus Anderson LLP Tab 1

2 M. Nieves Bolaños Potter Bolaños LLC Tab 2

3 Michael R. Carey Bowman and Brooke No written testimony submitted

4 Gray T. Culbreath Gallivan, White & Boyd P.A. No written testimony submitted

5 A. J. de Bartolomeo Milberg Tadler Phillips Grossman 

LLP

Tab 3

6 Michael D. Denton, Jr. Denton Law Firm No written testimony submitted

7 Sandra Ezell Bowman and Brooke, LLP No written testimony submitted

8 Patrick Fowler Snell & Wilmer No written testimony submitted

9 Bina Ghanaat Lankford Crawford Moreno & 

Ostertag LLP

No written testimony submitted

10 John W. Griffin, Jr. Marek, Griffin & Knaupp Tab 4

11 Lisa LaConte Heyl, Royster, Voelker & Allen No written testimony submitted

12 James L. McCrystal DRI-The Voice of the Defense Bar Tab 5

13 Keith McDaniel McCranie Sistrunk Anzelmo Hardy 

McDaniel & Welch LLC

No written testimony submitted

14 Francis M. McDonald, 

Jr.

McDonald Toole Wiggins, PA No written testimony submitted

15 Mark J. Kenney Severson & Werson No written testimony submitted

16 Lee Mickus Taylor Anderson Tab 6

17 Donald Myles, Jr. Jones, Skelton & Hochuli, P.L.C. No written testimony submitted

18 Amir Nassihi Shook, Hardy & Bacon L.L.P. No written testimony submitted

19 Bradley W. Petersen Slattery Petersen PLLC Tab 7

20 Tim Pratt No written testimony submitted

21 Bill Rossbach Rossbach Law, P.C. Tab 8

22 Bradley W. Smith Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell 

& Berkowitz, PC

No written testimony submitted

23 John Isaac Southerland Huie, Fernambucq & Stewart, LLP Tab 9

24 John Sundahl Defense Lawyers Association of 

Wyoming

Tab 10

25 Philip L. Willman DRI–The Voice of the Defense Bar Tab 5
TAB 1 

TESTIMONY AND COMMENT OF 

JENNIE LEE ANDERSON ANDRUS 

ANDERSON LLP 
_________________________________________________________

155 Montgomery Street ∙ Suite 900 ∙ San Francisco, California 94104

T: 415.986.1400 ∙ F: 415.986.1474 ∙ jennie@andrusanderson.com

December 14, 2018

Via Email

RulesCommittee_Secretary@ao.uscourts.gov

Rules Committee Secretary 

Administrative Office of the United States Courts

Thurgood Marshall Federal Judiciary Building 

One Columbus Circle, N.E, Room 7-240

Washington, D.C. 20544

Re: Anticipated Testimony Regarding Proposed Amendment to FRCP 30(b)(6)

Dear Committee Secretary and Members, 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify before the Committee on January 4, 2019. By way of 

background, I am a founding member of Andrus Anderson LLP in San Francisco, California. We

represent consumers and employees in class and complex cases nationwide. 

While I will be submitting more detailed comments before January 4, I write today to identify 

the topics I intend to cover during my testimony. Specifically, I intend to discuss the following 

topics: 

1. Efficiencies Rule 30(b)(6) procedures provide in consumer and antitrust class actions,

particularly at the class certification stage;

2. Tensions between being precise in identifying the topics of testimony and limiting the

number of topics; and

3. Benefits of disclosing the identity of the witness(es) in advance of the deposition.

I look forward to testifying before the Committee on January 4. 

Sincerely, 

/s/ Jennie Lee Anderson
_________________________________________________________ 

155 Montgomery Street · Suite 900 · San Francisco, California 94104 

T: 415.986.1400 · F: 415.986.1474 · jennie@andrusanderson.com 

January 2, 2019 

Advisory Committee on Civil Rules 

Administrative Office of the United States Courts 

Thurgood Marshall Federal Judiciary Building 

One Columbus Circle, N.E., Room 7-240 

Washington, D.C. 20544 A 

Re: Comments on Proposed Amendment to Fed. R. Civ. P. 30(b)(6) 

Dear Members of the Committee: 

I am a partner at the San Francisco law firm Andrus Anderson LLP. My firm represents 

plaintiffs in class, individual and mass actions across the nation in the areas of employment, 

antitrust, product liability and consumer protection law. I respectfully submit the following 

comments regarding the proposed amendments to Rule 30(b)(6) of the Federal Rules of Civil 

Procedure. 

A majority of defendants named in the lawsuits my firm files are corporations, the structure 

and management of which we know very little about at the beginning of the litigation. Rule 30(b)(6) 

provides an efficient and effective means of gathering corporate information to lay a foundation for 

discovery for the duration of the litigation. In class actions, class certification may turn entirely on 

testimony elicited from a Rule 30(b)(6) deposition regarding core certification questions such as 

whether the conduct arose from uniform policies and practices, whether an injury is tied to a 

universal design or manufacturing defect or whether a common chain of distribution or pricing 

method existed throughout the class period. 

Efficiency is further served when the parties are transparent about identifying the witness 

and the topics he or she will be covering in advance. In many cases, a corporate defendant will 

designate different witnesses for different topics. In one international price-fixing case where my 

firm represented consumer plaintiffs, for example, having candid communications with opposing 

counsel regarding who would testify about which topics vastly improved the process. Knowing the 

identity of the witnesses allowed for better preparation and planning. I was able to quickly cover 

each witness’s background and experience and confirm the topics of inquiry to be covered at the 

outset of each deposition, allowing us to move on to the substantive topics at hand. Some of the 

witnesses covered very discrete topics. Others had worked at the company for decades and were 

addressing multiple topics. Because this was disclosed in advance, the parties were also able to more 

efficiently schedule the testimony, including scheduling more than one witness in a single day in 

some instances. 

 

 I agree with and applaud the Committee’s draft note acknowledging that, even under the 

amended rule, the responding party is still responsible for identifying and preparing an appropriate 

witness, and that the meet and confer process envisioned by the proposed amendment does not

require that the parties to reach any agreement. Rather, the amendment and accompanying note 
Advisory Committee on Civil Rules 

January 2, 2019 

Page 2 

recognize that by reducing surprises the parties can maximize discovery efficiencies and save 

resources. Indeed, the draft note is consistent with Rule 1’s requirement that the Rules be 

“construed, administered, and employed by the court and the parties to secure the just, speedy, and 

inexpensive determination of every action and proceeding” and is an important aspect of the 

proposed amendment. 

Some of the comments submitted in response to the proposed amendment encourage the 

Committee to abandon the current draft in favor of inflexible restrictions, such as a presumptive 

limit on the number of topics to be included in the notice. I support the Committee’s sound 

decision to avoid imposing such limitations, which would undermine many efficiencies achieved by 

the Rule. Limiting the number of topics would necessarily lead to broader and less precise 

descriptions, thereby eliciting new objections that the noticing party’s topics are too vague, 

incomprehensible or overbroad. The more specific the noticing party can be, the more effective the 

process. An example from the same international price-fixing case mentioned above comes to 

mind. There, plaintiffs served a 30(b)(6) deposition notice encompassing five general categories: 1) 

manufacturing and production, 2) sales and pricing, 3) costs and profits, 4) U.S. commerce, and 5) 

transactional data. Alone, these categories are very broad. But for each category, we identified 

anywhere from two to ten specific topics to let the defendants know precisely what we were looking 

for. The number of categories did not increase the burden on either party. On the contrary, it 

allowed defendants to identify and prepare appropriate witnesses and eliminated the guess work. 

Utilizing Rule 30(b)(6) should be encouraged, not discouraged. The procedure allows the noticing 

party to get a crash course in the inner workings of the company at issue in the case. This factfinding exercise provides information the parties need to proceed with discovery, narrow claims and 

defenses, present class certification arguments and propose a workable trial schedule. 

Overall, I believe the existing Rule works very well, but I appreciate the guidance the 

Committee seeks to include in the proposed amendments and, very importantly, the accompanying 

note. Thank you for your time and attention. 

Sincerely, 

/s/ Jennie Lee Anderson 
TAB 2

TESTIMONY OF

M. Nieves Bolaños

Potter Bolaños LLC
1 

December 14, 2018 

Submitted Via Email to: RulesCommittee Secretary@ao.uscourts.gov

Rebecca A. Womeldorf 

Rules Committee Chief Counsel 

Office of the General Counsel 

Administrative Office of the United States Courts 

Re: Written Testimony of M. Nieves Bolaños Regarding The 

Proposed Amendment To Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 30(b)(6) 

Dear Advisory Committee on Civil Rules: 

I respectfully submit this testimony both as a Partner at Potter Bolaños LLC and a member of the 

Executive Board of the National Employment Lawyers Association (NELA), regarding the 

proposed amendment to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 30(b)(6) (Proposed Amendment). I 

appreciate the Committee’s careful attention to the various perspectives provided throughout the 

process that led to the Proposed Amendment, and thank the Committee for the opportunity to 

offer my impressions. 

Our firm represents employees and labor organizations in individual and class actions, involving 

claims of employment discrimination, harassment, retaliation, whistleblowing, and wage and 

hour violations. NELA is the country’s largest professional organization that is exclusively 

comprised of lawyers who represent individuals in employment-related matters, with 69 state 

and local affiliates around the country. NELA advances employee rights and serves lawyers who 

advocate for equality and justice in the American workplace. 

Our clients come from all walks of life, from hourly workers to executives and other 

professionals. Like many NELA members and firms, as well as anyone who regularly or 

primarily represents employees, our cases almost always involve a substantial asymmetry in 

access to the information and witnesses essential to the claims and defenses at issue. In addition, 

organizational employers always have access to far greater resources than either our firm or our 

clients. 
2 

I. The Proposed Amendment, as Revised, Adopts Existing Best Practices 

Regarding Rule 30(b)(6) Depositions 

The imbalance in access to information, documents, witnesses, and resources between 

organizations and individuals necessitates rules that promote both efficiency and fundamental 

fairness. 

We regularly take Rule 30(b)(6) depositions in our cases, and have found them to be an essential 

vehicle for gathering information. As we described in earlier comments our firm submitted to the 

Rule 30(b)(6) Subcommittee, in our experience, the current rule is working well, including 

because in our jurisdiction (the Seventh Circuit), parties regularly meet and confer regarding 

discovery issues, including the number and description of matters for examination and the 

identity of witnesses for Rule 30(b)(6) depositions. Therefore, the Proposed Amendment makes 

an explicit requirement of what is already common practice among responsible counsel 

representing both individual plaintiffs and organizational defendants. 

II. The Committee’s Decisions Regarding What To Exclude Versus What To 

Include In The Proposed Amendment Will Serve The Legitimate Needs Of All 

Litigants & Promote More Cooperative Dispute Resolution 

We commend the Rule 30(b)(6) Subcommittee for its careful review of and ultimate rejection of 

a number of proposals that would have undermined many of the benefits of Rule 30(b)(6). The 

Proposed Amendment balances the legitimate concerns of both the defense bar and plaintiffsside counsel, and essentially codifies best practices that have in our experience improved 

efficiency, discouraged gamesmanship, reduced disputes, preserved judicial economy, and 

promoted the just, speedy, and inexpensive resolution of claims. 

A. Rejecting The Imposition Of Rigid Topic Limits 

Based on our experience, we agree with the Committee’s sensible decision to reject arbitrary 

limits on the number of topics for examination. That decision acknowledges the practical 

realities of cases and promotes fairness. Parties will not be bound by arbitrary caps, and will 

retain ultimate control of the subject-matter covered. Both parties will benefit from having clarity 

on topics that can be refined, narrowed, eliminated, or shifted to a later stage in the litigation in 

light of the particular circumstances of a given case. 

Any presumptive cap on the number of topics for examination would in practice be 

counterproductive. As a practical matter, it would serve to encourage counsel to broaden the 

definition of each topic in order to avoid exceeding the limit. This would make it more difficult 

for witnesses to prepare, which would undermine effective information gathering and lead to 

costly, wasteful disputes. 

While we are aware of the 100-topic 30(b)(6) deposition notices provided by members and 

representatives of the defense bar, such examples are in our experience anomalous. While such 

lists might be appropriate in certain cases, we have not found them to be necessary or efficient in 
3 

our practice. Engaging in such tactics where not necessary would represent a monumental waste 

of our firm’s and our clients’ time and other resources. Our firm, and those like it that operate 

with limited resources, recognize that serving such a notice unnecessarily would immediately 

devolve into a series of intractable disputes that would not be directed in any way towards 

furthering the resolution of the actual underlying claims. 

Our firm’s clients are largely working people under immense pressure to resolve their claims as 

equitably and cost-effectively as possible. As such, we carefully tailor the number and 

description of topics in our 30(b)(6) notices to gathering necessary information from the 

witnesses possessing it, and for the same reasons, our colleagues in the workers’ rights advocacy 

community do the same. Further, in our experience, judges would limit an overly broad notice on 

a motion for protective order, which could potentially subject our client to shifting of fees. See, 

Rickles v. City of South Bend, 33 F.3d. 785, 786-7 (7th Cir. 1994). 

Our firm has litigated against a number of public entities, which in general maintain systems and 

rules governing most of their employment practices. These systems and rules are most 

effectively discovered through initial 30(b)(6) depositions. However, they often need to be 

explored further, after we have established through fact witnesses whether the rules and formal 

policies were applied or followed. This is of particular import in section 1983 claims where 

plaintiffs might have the burden of demonstrating a de facto policy was being utilized, despite 

the existence of a contrary official policy, thus requiring a fact-intensive inquiry into policies 

both official and not. A rigid limit on topics would present a real risk of preventing plaintiffs 

from obtaining information essential to their cases. 

B. Requiring Advance Notice Of The Identity Of Witnesses 

Requiring advance notice of the identity of witnesses is a practical necessity, and in our 

experience, responsible counsel provide this information as a matter of course. Making the 

practice mandatory will eliminate wasteful gamesmanship and delays in which parties refuse to 

identify witnesses, thereby hindering counsel’s ability to adequately prepare, and causing 

depositions to be longer, less productive, and more costly. Of course, the party being deposed 

will retain ultimate control over the witnesses to be produced. We agree, as stated in the Draft 

Committee Note, that advance discussion should help avoid later disputes about whether the 

witness was appropriately knowledgeable or prepared. 

Knowing the identity of the witness in advance assists counsel in assessing what personal 

knowledge the witness will have, in addition to what they are required to discover and prepare to 

discuss as an organizational representative. This, in conjunction with the meet and confer 

requirements of the proposed rule, allows for more productive discussions about the scope, 

timing, and limitations of the deposition. For example, if a 30(b)(6) witness is also a regular 

witness, the parties can discuss how to structure the examination to ensure that the witness will 

not be required to attend multiple depositions. We have been able to reach such agreements with 

opposing counsel in the past, thus reducing the costs of the discovery process considerably. 
4 

C. Making Explicit The Ongoing Responsibility To Meet & Confer 

Finally, we agree with the Proposed Amendment’s clarification that the new meet and confer 

process will be ongoing, as necessary. As the Draft Committee Note makes clear, the process 

does not mandate that the parties reach an agreement on all issues. However, specifying that the 

process should be ongoing is in keeping with the spirit of the rules, will help ensure that all 

parties take their responsibilities seriously, and recognizes the practical reality that cases and 

their particular needs can evolve over time. 

In the many years’ experience of our firm’s attorneys, the most common issue that arises in the 

context of 30(b)(6) depositions is that 30(b)(6) witnesses come to their deposition unprepared to 

testify about the organization’s knowledge and information regarding the designated topics. The 

identification of a witness in advance of the deposition, coupled with an ongoing requirement to 

meet and confer, will provide the parties an opportunity to ensure the witness is an appropriate 

designee and is being properly prepared with respect to the scope of the deposition notice. This 

practice helps minimize the risk that the witness will come to a deposition unprepared to testify 

on the topics for which they have been designated. Making the practice an explicit part of the 

Rule will assist the parties in streamlining and properly preparing for depositions. 

III. The Committee Should Consider Amending The Draft Committee Note To 

Remove The Reference To Discussing Documents To Be Used During The 

Deposition 

We believe that the Committee should consider removing the following sentence from the Draft 

Committee Note: “At the same time, it may be productive to discuss other matters, such as 

having the serving party identify in advance of the deposition the documents it intends to use 

during the deposition, thereby facilitating deposition preparation.” During the initial discussions 

of the proposed rule change, there was a suggestion to mandate a pre-deposition exchange of 

exhibits. NELA, along with other groups, opposed this because it (1) would cause counsel to 

over-disclose numerous exhibits out of an abundance of caution, and (2) could effectively turn 

what should be a cross-examination into a mere live version of interrogatories. 

Discovery is a fluid and ongoing process and preparation goes on right up to the date of a 

deposition. As a practical matter, such a requirement does not recognize that, while not ideal, 

sometimes documents are produced very near to, or even on the day of, the deposition. A welltailored set of topics, accompanied by or identifying documents, should be at the discretion of 

the noticing party. Additionally, such a requirement would bar use of documents the relevance of 

which only becomes clear after the testimony is heard, for instance, for refreshment or 

impeachment. 

Including the suggestion of an early exchange of deposition exhibits in the Committee Note risks 

reading into the new rule a requirement that has already been considered and justifiably set aside. 

I once again thank the Committee for their hard work in developing the Proposed Amendment, 

and their attention to the various perspectives provided, including my own. 
5 

Respectfully Submitted, 

 

M. Nieves Bolaños 

Potter Bolaños LLC 

NELA Executive Board 
TAB 3

TESTIMONY OF

A. J. de Bartolomeo

Milberg Tadler Phillips Grossman LLP
A. J. de Bartolomeo

Direct Dial: 212-631-8669

ajdebartolomeo@milberg.com

One Pennsylvania Plaza ∙ New York, New York 10119 ∙ T 212.594.5300 ∙ F 212.868.1229 milberg.com

NEW YORK

LOS ANGELES

SAN FRANCISCO

December 12, 2018

SENT VIA E-MAIL

Re: Rule 30(b)(6) Public Hearing – January 4, 2019 in Phoenix, Arizona

.

Dear Members of the Committee on Rules of Practice and Procedure:

I am a partner at Milberg Tadler Phillips Grossman LLP in the San Francisco, California 

Bay Area, and I will be testifying on January 4, 2019 at the hearing in Phoenix, Arizona. 

Milberg Tadler is nationally recognized as a leader in defending the rights of victims of 

corporate and other complex wrongdoing. Milberg Tadler’s practice focuses on the prosecution 

of class and complex actions in many practice areas, including securities, antitrust, consumer, 

False Claims Act, mass tort, and qui tam. Our litigation and trial work has shown us that Rule 

30(b)(6) depositions are one of the most effective tools available to get to the heart of discovery, 

enabling us to prosecute the case more efficiently through written discovery, electronically 

stored information protocols and identifying other witnesses for deposition.

I would like to thank the Advisory Committee for its hard work in drafting the Proposed 

Amendments to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 30(b)(6). The Advisory Committee had 

requested comments from the public early on in its initial comment period, in the summer of 

2017. It is evident that the Committee carefully and thoughtfully considered the public 

comments because the final product presents a balanced and fair procedure with evenly imposed 

obligations on all parties in the litigation. The Committee’s measured and conservative approach 

to evaluating changes to existing Federal Rule 30(b)(6) is textbook “best practices” in 

rulemaking, where even the slightest change can have unintended consequences. We appreciate 

Committee on Rules of Practice and Procedure

Administrative Office of the United States Courts

One Columbus Circle, NE

Washington, DC 20544

RulesCommittee_Secretary@ao.uscourts.gov
Committee on Rules of Practice and Procedure

Administrative Office of the United States Courts

December 12, 2018

Page 2

MILBERG TADLER PHILLIPS GROSSMAN LLP

the precise and thorough approach the Advisory Committee took in crafting the Proposed 

Amendments. With a few comments and textual suggestion, I support the Proposed 

Amendments and believe that the Advisory Committee has achieved a fair and balanced rule that 

does not favor one side over the other.

Comments:

 A good faith meet and confer requirement as to the identity of the designated 

witness will facilitate efficiency and economy in the discovery process. The goal 

of Rule 30(b)(6) is to obtain testimony from a competent witness knowledgeable 

about the topics identified in the Rule 30(b)(6) Notice. The Proposed Rule’s 

requirement that the parties have a constructive discussion as to the identity of the 

witness who will testify on the given subjects should help parties avoid the 

disputes that arise when the designee cannot answer questions on the stated 

subjects. This unfortunate situation leads to delay, protracted litigation and often 

necessitates motion practice and court involvement. I support the Committee’s 

inclusion of the “identity of” requirement for the meet and confer process but I 

suggest the amendment would be strengthened if the Committee clarified, either 

in the Rule itself or the Committee Note, that the “identity of” of the witness for 

this purpose includes the witness’ qualifications to speak competently on the 

topics for testimony. Without this additional information, discussion of the 

witness’ name or job title may be meaningless.

 The Meet and Confer Process does not need the words “number and” in the text. 

The description of the matters for examination is what the parties should be 

discussing in order to resolve potential disputes before the deposition occurs. 

Competent testimony on the stated subject areas is the whole point of a Rule 

30(b)(6) deposition. The inclusion of “the number” of topics as a mandatory 

subject for discussion confers an unwarranted, independent level of importance on 

the form of the list. But one size does not fit all. In some cases, for example, 

there may be only 5 relevant subject areas for examination. In more complex 

matters, it may be more than 50. In addition, the number of topics listed is easily 

manipulated. The Proposed Amendment’s emphasis on the number of topics may 

encourage noticing parties to list a few broad topics rather than more specific 

topics that would be more informative but might encourage the receiving party to 

object to the number of topics. In short, the Amendment and Committee Note 

should encourage the parties to discuss substance, not form. 

 The text of the Proposed Rule makes clear that the witness is a person that “the 

organization designates” to testify. Paragraph 2 of the Draft Committee Note 

also makes clear that “the named organization ultimately has the right to select its 
Committee on Rules of Practice and Procedure

Administrative Office of the United States Courts

December 12, 2018

Page 3

MILBERG TADLER PHILLIPS GROSSMAN LLP

designees. . .”. Some of the comments submitted in response to the Proposed 

Amendments seem concerned that the Proposed Rule somehow removes the 

designation choice from the organization or otherwise imposes an outside 

influence into the mix. The Proposed Rule does no such thing and I believe these 

comments are unfounded. If the word “ultimately” is a basis for concern or 

ambiguity, the Committee may want to consider striking it from the Proposed 

Note.

Please do not hesitate to contact me should you need any additional information or have 

any questions.

Very truly yours,

A. J. de Bartolomeo
TAB 4 

COMMENT OF 

John W. Griffin, Jr. 

Marek, Griffin & Knaupp 
HOWARD R. MAREK***

JOHN GRIFFIN, JR*†"

LYNN KNAUPP**

DAVID C. GRIFFIN†m

 OF COUNSEL

ROBERT E. McKNIGHT, JR.

(ALSO LICENSED IN LOUISIANA) 

 ------------

* BOARD CERTIFIED • CIVIL TRIAL LAW

** BOARD CERTIFIED • FAMILY LAW

*** BOARD CERTIFIED • REAL ESTATE LAW

" BOARD CERTIFIED • CONSUMER AND COMMERCIAL LAW

† BOARD CERTIFIED • PERSONAL INJURY TRIAL LAW

 TEXAS BOARD OF LEGAL SPECIALIZATION

 ------------

m BOARD CERTIFIED • CIVIL TRIAL LAW

 NATIONAL BOARD OF TRIAL ADVOCACY

PORT LAVACA OFFICE

225 NORTH VIRGINIA, SUITE 3

PORT LAVACA, TEXAS 77979

TELEPHONE (361) 552-5050

FAX (361) 552-5522

MAREK, GRIFFIN & KNAUPP

ATTORNEYS AT LAW

The McFaddin Building

203 N. LIBERTY STREET

P.O. BOX 2329

VICTORIA, TEXAS 77902-2329

TELEPHONE (361) 573-5500

FAX (361) 573-5040

www.lawmgk.com

jwg@lawmgk.com

December 13, 2018

Comment to Advisory Committee on Civil Rules on the Proposed Amendment

to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 30(b)(6)

Dear Committee Members:

Wow what a difference there is in the lay of the land since the hearings the Committee held in 2014

regarding proportionality and preservation of evidence. Rule 30(b)(6) is a much more discrete topic, and I am

in support of the Committee’s work. 

Many of us are believers in periodic review of the Rules, so the Committee shouldn’t be criticized for

seeking input from the Bar and those we represent. No other country has this Rule, although many states have

some variation of it. In its 40 plus years, it has made few enemies and many friends among those who try

cases to a jury. The original version of the Rule improved what discovery is: a search for the truth. While I

am a firm believer in the “if it’s not broke, don’t fix it” concept, the tweaks and adjustments stand to make

the Rule work better.

As some of you know from the hearings in 2014, I litigate commercial cases, but now primarily litigate

disability rights cases, especially blanket bans against people with a specific disability like diabetes or hearing

loss. As some members may recall, from the 2014 hearing in Dallas, I have had the privilege of litigating

Court Security Officer cases with the United States Marshals Service, which is responsible for the security

of the federal courts and the public in federal courthouses around the United States. In the past, the USMS

would fire your CSOs if they needed hearing aids to pass their hearing tests. No more. Now they are tested

on how well they hear, period, with or without hearing aids. Why? Because these officers secured important

discovery from the USMS. That was important to this Committee in 2014. It’s important today, too, since

a Rule 30(b)(6) notice of deposition helped congeal the issues and get the case resolved in a manner that keeps

the judiciary safer and which prevents needless firings. Topics like which functions the employer thinks are

essential, whether the worker was qualified, whether the worker was a direct threat, how the employer

determines direct threat and risk, the basis for the Agency’s objection to hearing aids and the worker’s on the

job performance. 

Without this tool, the retired career law enforcement officers who serve as CSOs and were challenging

the USMS practices, would have had no way to obtain critical information. It turned out that removing these

officers compromised judicial security instead of enhancing it by banning use of hearing aids to pass the

hearing tests. They had chosen to weaken the actual hearing standards for CSOs, yet removed officers with
December 13, 2018

Page 2

MAREK, GRIFFIN & KNAUPP

ATTORNEYS AT LAW

virtually normal hearing with hearing aids. 

Other important doors were opened by the text of the Rule. Some in the DC area may recall the

Washington Post and NPR stories on the young veteran who the FBI hired as a Special Agent but then

removed from Quantico because of a war injury.1 His non-dominant hand was blown off by a grenade. He

served three tours during the war, as an Army Ranger, but when he showed up at Quantico, trainers got him

removed because they claimed that shooting with the off hand was required. He could shoot with his

prosthesis, but the FBI refused to allow him to demonstrate this, and it kicked him out of the Quantico

Training Academy. 

He brought suit, and a Rule 30(b)(6) deposition, not written discovery, brought out the facts and helped

decide the case. Here is how:

First, since the FBI claimed an agent had to be able to shoot with the non-dominant hand in order to

be qualified, the deposition notice included that topic. The designee testified that in the dozen or so occasions

when a Special Agent discharged a weapon with the non-dominant hand, mayhem ensued, with bullets going

into bathroom walls and even into the Special Agent’s dominant hand in one case. The designee explained

that the lesson learned was that this mishap would never occurred if the Special Agent had utilized his

dominant hand. 

Second, the FBI claimed they had never had anyone who had a serious hand injury who worked as a

special agent. Again, this was a topic of the notice. Because of Rule 30(b)(6)'s requirement to produce a

witness with knowledge, the jury heard what we had learned fromthat topic – that numerous on board Special

Agents had suffered the loss of a hand or the use of a hand and still were deemed qualified to work. 

Third, we learned something else in that Rule 30(b)(6) deposition. We learned that a Special Agent

can elect to pass on all the shots with the non-dominant hand, so long as they achieve enough points on the

firearms qualification test with the dominant hand. That is, points are points, regardless of how they

accumulate them. Finally, the designees confirmed that the FBI had no written requirement that Special

Agents be able to hit the broad side of a barn with the nondominant hand. Written discovery did not reveal

this evidence. It was because of the Rule that the truth was elicited. 

This testimony was the foundation for the jury’s verdict. Anthony Trenga, the district judge, ordered

reinstatement, and then Director James Comey decided not to appeal the case, and readmitted the young

1

https://www.npr.org/2013/07/25/205508566/federal-case-pits-wounded-warrior-against-fbi and

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/injured-veteran-wins-75000-in-lawsuit-against-fbi/2013/

08/07/67624f18-ff81-11e2-96a8-d3b921c0924a_story.html?utm_term=.60113b9b179c

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/judge-gives-fbi-deadline-to-resume-training-disabl

ed-veteran-justin-slaby/2013/11/22/a4e81d9c-53a8-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html?utm_ter

m=.599de2de7bea
December 13, 2018

Page 3

MAREK, GRIFFIN & KNAUPP

ATTORNEYS AT LAW

veteran to the academy, where he thrived. At graduation, he was elected by his class to be the class

representative. He now serves our country today, in large part because of the no nonsense provisions of Rule

30(b)(6). 

Parties can fudge and fence over written discovery requests, but a witness under oath is much more

forthcoming. The Rule, in the context of CSO cases and FBI cases, made our country safer since the USMS

and the FBI designated witnesses who candidly shared the organization’s true view of the topic, leading to

results that strengthen those Agencies and the public they serve. 

Yes, over the past 35 years, there have been sporadic issues about the scope and the parties’

understanding of the topics, so the meet and confer tweak should help avoid those occasional dustups. The

Rule will also be improved by having the organization identify the designees before the day of the deposition,

since last minute designations are the ones that have caused difficulties to both the party seeking discovery

and the organization as well. The draft amendment will discourage procrastination and prevent needless

dustups on the responding party’s diligence in complying with the notice. The Committee’s proposal is

consistent with the original Rule in insuring that responding organization gets to choose its designee, and

must properly prepare them to give testimony on the topics, and requires the party seeking discovery to

identify the topics with reasonable particularity.

The Texas Rule, 199.2(b)(1) is patterned on Rule 30(b)(6), and it features one of the tweaks that the

Committee is considering, in that the Texas Rule does require the organization to designate the witnesses on

the topics a reasonable time before the deposition. In the 35 years since the Rule was adopted in Texas, there

is not a single reported case arising out of that requirement. For Texas, that is significant. In fact, there is

only one case that actually discusses the utility and scope of the Rule.2 So the draft that the Committee is

considering has two important improvements. First, the organization will know that it has done what the

courts require: produce a witness who can speak for the organization. When I am defending cases, it’s good

for my client to face the topics and find the person who can speak about them and helps us evaluate the

exposure of our client. Second, it helps shorten the deposition when both sides know who the designee is

before the deposition, avoiding needless questioning and exploring that is avoided by identity ahead of time. 

Both these improvements will help counsel in streamlining the discovery process. The party noticing

the deposition must still draft topics with reasonably specificity, and the organization responding will still

have to designate and prepare a witness to testify on the topics, but the tweaks will make that process even

more streamlined. 

I tend to think that it would work better if we don’t apply an across the board rule that parties must

meet and confer on the precise number of topics, since that is a more granulated discrete subject than the

description of the matters to be addressed in the notice. It sort of invites bandying over something that would

not otherwise provoke a fight. In 35 years, I have never had any argument about the number of topics, while

there have been discussions over the propriety of the topics. In those cases, conferral invariably yielded

2Hospital Corporation of America v. Farrar, 733 S.W.2d 393 (Tex. App.–Ft. Worth

1987)
December 13, 2018

Page 4

MAREK, GRIFFIN & KNAUPP

ATTORNEYS AT LAW

resolution. 

The amendment makes it clear that parties who have no need to meet and confer can continue to

operate as they do under the existing Rule. And that’s good, since I have never ever heard a district judge say

that its docket is overloaded with Rule 30(b)(6) disputes.

My own view, having taken dozens of these depositions under Rule 30(b)(6), is that the Rule is

elegantly simple and has helped resolve many cases. In the 5

th Circuit, the leading case is now 15 years old.3

It is well settled for counsel and for our clients, whether they are seeking the 30(b)(6) deposition or defending

it. And the courts have been pretty good at keeping disputes to a minimum, rejecting arguments that Rule

30(b)(6) testimony is some sort of judicial admission, but also recognizing that there can be no ambush, and

that parties should supplement when it secures knowledge about a topic that was disclaimed during the

deposition.4 

So while the Rule isn’t broken in any sense, it can be improved, and the Committee’s draft is a move

in that direction. The best course is to continue that course, and avoid invitations to do mischief to the very

advantage the Rule has: direct testimony on topics that are important to the case. As a 35 year veteran of

discovery and 70 plus jury trials, my thought is that the Committee has faithfully considered the feedback

you’ve received, and have done what all of would hope: make the Rule a bit better. It wouldn’t be a problem

if this Rule remained unchanged, but the changes that the Committee proposes are a balanced and thoughtful

effort at making it work even better for the parties, and I commend the current draft for your consideration.

Sincerely,

John W. Griffin, Jr.

3Brazos River Authority v. GE Ionics, Inc., 469 F.3d 416 (5th Cir. 2006)

4Rainey v. American Forest and Paper Assn., 26 F.Supp.2d 82,95-96 (D.D.C 1996)
TAB 5 

COMMENT OF 

DRI-The Voice of the Defense Bar 
November 20, 2018

Rule 30(b)(6) Subcommittee of the Advisory Committee on Civil Rules

Administrative Office of the United States Courts

One Columbus Circle, NE, Suite 7-240

Washington, D.C. 20544

Dear Members of the Civil Rules Advisory Committee:

I am President of DRI – The Voice of the Defense Bar, (DRI), and am writing to you on behalf 

of our organization to respectfully comment on the changes recently proposed to Rule 

30(b)(6).

With a membership of 20,000 individual and corporate members, DRI is the world's largest 

international membership organization of lawyers involved in the defense of civil litigation. 

The history of DRI encompasses many years of effort by dedicated lawyers who see the 

need for a coordinated approach by defense lawyers to the challenges of a civil defense 

practice. We see Rule 30(b)(6) as one of those challenges. DRI is committed to anticipating 

and addressing issues germane to defense lawyers and the interests they represent, 

improving the civil justice system, and preserving the civil jury trial.

The suggested rule change, in the main, should be helpful to all litigants by imposing the 

duty to meet and confer concerning the number and description of the matters for 

examination which should help all parties clarify the scope of the deposition to hopefully 

allow better preparation by each side. What is missing is a framework for that discussion. 

It would be helpful to have Rule 30(b)(6) clarify that such depositions are subject to 

Rule 30(a) and (d), so that such depositions are included within the limited number of 

depositions and the time limits on them, unless otherwise provided by a stipulation of the 

parties or court order. In addition, it would promote further efficiency by providing a 

presumptive limit on the number of “matters for examination” at such deposition. 

In addition to those elements which, if added, would improve the rule, the proposed rule 

would impose a new unwarranted duty on organizations requiring them to confer about 

the identity of each person to be designated to testify. Organizations might be encouraged 

by way of the Committee Note to do so, but imposing that as a duty in each case is unwise,

and that language should be removed from the proposed amendment.

In most cases, once the subjects and the likely scope of inquiry are understood by both 

sides, the burden on the organization to designate who will testify on its behalf concerning 

“information known or reasonably available to the organization” is easily met and seldom 

is the designation of concern. After all, the designee is testifying to the organization’s 

information about the matters under examination, not the designee’s personal knowledge 

concerning those topics. Compelling the organization to confer in good faith about “the 

identity of each person the organization will designate to testify” implies that the party 
November 20, 2018

Page Two

issuing the notice has some right to participate in that choice, which contradicts the rule’s clear and 

unambiguous mandate that it is the organization that must designate who the witness will be. 

When a party wants a specific witness to testify, the party is free to depose that individual about their 

personal knowledge, which knowledge may include matters inquired of the organizational witness, but 

those depositions are subject to the limitations on the number and time length for such depositions 

contained elsewhere in Rule 30. 

In its 2017 comments, DRI identified other useful improvements to the rule which remain areas where 

we believe useful rulemaking should occur:

• Amendments to Rules 16 and 26(f) that would include Rule 30(b)(6) in party

conferences, pretrial conferences and scheduling orders;

• An amendment to Rule 26(e) allowing for supplementation of Rule 30(b)(6) depositions;

• An amendment to Rule 30(b)(6) that provides a mechanism for making and

resolving objections to the notice;

• An amendment to Rule 30(b)(6) that provides a presumptive limit of ten topics;

• An amendment to Rule 30(b)(6) that establishes a means for organizations to certify

that they have no knowledge beyond information contained in documents and,

where such certification is made, no deposition is required;

• An amendment to Rule 30(b)(6) clarifying that a deposition is not required on topics

that have been subject to deposition before and where the transcript is available; and

• An amendment to Rule 30(b)(6) prohibiting contention questions.

Some of these are included in the Committee Note, which is helpful; however, DRI continues to believe 

provisions allowing supplementation of responses to organizational depositions, setting a presumptive 

limit on the number of topics, allowing an organization to certify there is no information beyond 

documents available within the organization or submitting prior transcripts sufficiently responsive to a 

topic in the notice to remove that topic from the notice, remain worthy of further consideration because 

they are in the spirit of the Committee's 2015 discovery amendments which encourage cooperation, 

proportionality and early case management. 

Also, DRI supports the positions and reasoning provided by Lawyers for Civil Justice in their 

September 12, 2018 submission to the Advisory Committee. 

DRI respectfully urges the Advisory Committee to improve the proposed amendment by making further 

revisions as suggested here. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Toyja E. Kelley

DRI President
TAB 6

TESTIMONY AND COMMENTS OF

Lee Mickus

Taylor Anderson LLP
1670 Broadway, Suite 900 

Denver, Colorado 80202 

303.551.6660 P 

303.551.6655 F 

O F F I C E L O C A T I O N S 

D E N V E R 

O R A N G E C O U N T Y 

S A N D I E G O 

S C O T T S D A L E 

S A C R A M E N T O 

D A L L A S

December 13, 2018 

Advisory Committee on Civil Rules 

Administrative Office of the United States Courts 

Thurgood Marshall Federal Judiciary Building 

One Columbus Circle, N.E. 

Room 7-240 

Washington, DC 20544 

Re: Testimony on Proposed Amendments to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 30(b)(6) 

Dear Members of the Civil Rules Advisory Committee: 

 I look forward to presenting my testimony at the January 4, 2019 public hearing in 

Phoenix. My testimony will generally track the written comments I submitted on December 12, 

2018. My comments are posted at: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=USC-RULESCV-2018-0003-0141

 As discussed in my written comments, I urge the committee to reject the proposed 

amendment to Rule 30(b)(6) in its current form and reconsider concepts that would address 

functional inadequacies, such as the lack of a defined procedure for raising and resolving 

objections. The proposed amendment fails to address the real needs of Rule 30(b)(6), but will 

likely create new grounds for disagreement. In particular, the mandate to confer regarding 

witness identity creates an unnecessary new discovery obligation that provides no meaningful 

benefit, will confuse the parties’ responsibilities, and will encourage disputes. The Committee 

should reject any amendment to Rule 30(b)(6) that includes the requirement of conferral in 

advance of the deposition regarding the identity of the witness. 

 

Very truly yours, 

 Lee Mickus 

Lee Mickus 

lmickus@talawfirm.com

303.551.6657
1670 Broadway, Suite 900 

Denver, Colorado 80202 

303.551.6660 P 

303.551.6655 F 

O F F I C E L O C A T I O N S 

D E N V E R 

O R A N G E C O U N T Y 

S A N D I E G O 

S C O T T S D A L E 

S A C R A M E N T O 

D A L L A S

December 12, 2018 

Advisory Committee on Civil Rules 

Administrative Office of the United States Courts 

Thurgood Marshall Federal Judiciary Building 

One Columbus Circle, N.E. 

Room 7-240 

Washington, DC 20544 

Re: Comments on Proposed Amendments to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 30(b)(6) 

Dear Members of the Civil Rules Advisory Committee: 

 I appreciate the opportunity to respond to the Request for Comments on Proposed Rules 

Amendments and submit for your consideration my comments on the proposed amendments to 

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 30(b)(6). 

 My observations regarding the proposed amendments arise from my experience as a civil 

litigator, which primarily involves the representation of manufacturers and other corporations in 

product liability lawsuits. In this capacity, I have participated in the response to dozens of Rule 

30(b)(6) deposition notices, including identifying corporate representatives to act as witnesses, 

preparing those individuals to testify regarding the organization’s knowledge, interacting with 

opposing counsel to clarify the areas of inquiry and resolve objections, and defending the witness 

and the responding party at the deposition. 

 

 In my experience, Rule 30(b)(6) depositions generate disagreements at a particularly high 

rate. Disputes regarding issues such as the adequacy of notice to prepare the witness to address 

fully the corporate knowledge and the amount of deposition time appropriate for the needs of the 

case are common. More central to the functioning of the Rule 30(b)(6) procedure, parties 

frequently fail to reach a common understanding of the nature and scope of the identified areas 

for examination, leading to arguments and often motions pitting assertions of incomplete witness 

preparation against contentions that the topics set forth in the deposition notice were not 

described with sufficient particularity. 

Lee Mickus 

lmickus@talawfirm.com

303.551.6657
December 12, 2018 

Page 2 

 The proposed amendments to Rule 30(b)(6) will accomplish little to prevent the 

occurrence of such disputes. Practitioners will still receive no guidance about limits on 

testimony time or proper notice. Although conferring about the number of topics and the 

description of the areas of inquiry appropriately focuses the parties’ attention on issues critical to 

the functioning of the procedure and most likely to spark disagreements and even motions,1

many courts already require such conferral and most practitioners will undertake these efforts. 

Because pre-deposition conferral already occurs widely, building this requirement into the rule 

itself cannot be expected to yield significant improvement in Rule 30(b)(6) practice. 

 Far more problematic is the proposed amendment’s requirement to confer in advance of 

the deposition regarding the identity of the person who will testify. The addition of this 

provision offers no meaningful benefit, but will confuse the parties’ responsibilities, encourage 

more disputes, and create complexity and gamesmanship concerns. The Committee should reject 

any amendment that directs a party responding to a Rule 30(b)(6) notice to discuss the identity of 

the witness with the opposing party in advance of the deposition. 

 The proposed addition of a mandated conferral regarding witness identity will establish a 

new discovery obligation never before recognized.2 As with any discovery obligation, the 

existence of this requirement would create the opportunity for litigants to disagree and pursue 

motions necessitating court involvement. With the proposed witness identity provision, this 

likelihood is apparent from current practice: even though courts consistently recognize that 

determining the representative who will testify at a Rule 30(b)(6) deposition is the exclusive 

province of the party responding to the notice,3 some litigants who serve Rule 30(b)(6) 

 

1 The Rule 30(b)(6) procedure simply cannot operate as intended unless the parties share an understanding of the 

scope and boundaries of the areas of inquiry. See, e.g., Tri-State Hosp. Supply Corp. v. United States, 226 F.R.D. 

118, 125 (D.D.C. 2005)(“The purpose of designating matters for the 30(b)(6) deposition is to give the opposing 

party notice of the areas of inquiry that will be pursued so that it can identify appropriate deponents and ensure they 

are prepared for the deposition.”); Reed v. Bennett, 193 F.R.D. 689, 692 (D. Kan. 2000)(“the noticed party must 

designate persons knowledgeable in the areas of inquiry listed in the notice. Where ... the [deponent] cannot identify 

the outer limits of the areas of inquiry noticed, compliant designation is not feasible.”)(citations omitted). See also 

Federal Ins. Co. v. Delta Mech. Contractors, LLC, No. 11-048ML, 2013 WL 1343528, at *4 (D.R.I. Apr. 2, 2013) 

(“Delta’s list of twenty-four topics are sufficiently broad and amorphous as to run afoul of the requirement that Rule 

30(b)(6) topics must be described with reasonable particularity. . . . This is precisely the sort of overbroad Rule 

30(b)(6) notice that subjects the noticed party to an impossible task.”)(citations and quotation omitted). 

 

2 See Roca Labs, Inc. v. Consumer Opinion Corp., No. 8:14-CV-2096-T-33EAJ, 2015 WL 12844307, at *2 (M.D. 

Fla. May 29, 2015)(“Defendants are not required to identify their Rule 30(b)(6) witnesses prior to deposition.”); 

Klorczyk v. Sears, Roebuck & Co., Civ. No. 3:13CV257 (JAM), 2015 WL 1600299, at *5 (D. Conn. Apr. 9, 

2015)(“the Court will not require Sears to disclose the name(s) or resume(s) of its 30(b)(6) witness.”); Cruz v. 

Durbin, No. 2:11-CV-342-LDG-VCF, 2014 WL 5364068, at *8 (D. Nev. Oct. 20, 2014)(“the court denies Cruz’s 

motion to compel with regard to the identify of Wabash’s Rule 30(b)(6) deponent”).

3 See, e.g., Merriweather v. United Parcel Service, Inc., No. 3:17-CV-349-CRS-LLK, 2018 WL 3572527, at *4 

(W.D. Ky. July 25, 2018)(“By its terms, Rule 30(b)(6) does not permit the plaintiff to designate a deponent to speak 
December 12, 2018 

Page 3 

deposition notices nonetheless improperly demand their preferred individual appear as the 

witness.4 The proposed amendment would foster such disputes over the responding party’s 

witness selection by suggesting that a noticing party has a basis in the language of the rule itself 

for insisting on a particular person’s designation. Creating this new area of disagreement over 

Rule 30(b)(6) procedure would not improve the discovery process. 

 The proposed witness identity conferral requirement will also lead to confusion in some 

Rule 30(b)(6) depositions regarding the capacity of the witness and create the potential for sharp 

dealing. Rule 30(b)(6) depositions exist to provide discovery of the full information known to 

the responding organization, and not the information personally known by the specific witness.5 

Because Rule 30(b)(6) depositions only address what is known or reasonably available to the 

organization and may be learned by the representative in preparing to testify, the designated 

 

for the corporate defendants.”); Thermolife Int’l, LLC v. Vital Pharmaceuticals, Inc., No. 14-61864-CIV-ZLOCH, 

2015 WL 1119773, at *1 (S.D. Fla. Oct. 5, 2015)(“Under Rule 30(b)(6), the corporation has the obligation to select 

the individual witness.”); Quilez-Velar v. Ox Bodies, Inc., Civ. No. 12-1780(GAG/SCC), 2014 WL 12725818, at *1 

(D.P.R. Jan. 3, 2014)(“the noticed corporation alone determines the individuals who will testify on those subjects.”); 

Thompson v. Kawasaki Heavy Indus., Ltd., 291 F.R.D. 297, 304 (N.D. Iowa 2013)(“the corporation itself selects the 

deponent who will speak for it”); Galvan v. Mississippi Power Co., Civil Action No. 1:10CV159–KS–MTP, 2012 

WL 5873633, at *3 (S.D. Miss. Nov. 20, 2012) (“MPC has the right to designate its corporate representatives as it 

sees fit.”); Folwell v. Hernandez, 210 F.R.D. 169, 172 (M.D.N.C. 2002) (“One of the most important consequences 

of Rule 30(b)(6) is that under it, only the corporation selects the persons who will testify. . . . Rule 30(b)(6) does not 

allow for the opposing party to make the selection.”). 

4 See, e.g., Progress Bulk Carriers v. American Steamship Owners Mut. Prot. and Indem. Asso. 939 F. Supp. 2d 

422, 430 (S.D.N.Y. 2013) (“[Rule 30(b)(6)], however, does not permit the party issuing the notice to select who will 

testify on the organization’s behalf—which is exactly what Progress Bulk has attempted to do in this case.”); 

McPherson v. Wells Fargo Bank, N.A., 292 F.R.D. 695, 698 (S.D. Fla. 2013)(rejecting attempt to require 

presentation of the noticing party’s preferred witness, finding “Plaintiff cannot, however, dictate under Rule 30(b)(6) 

which individuals the corporation should designate, even if there is cause for Plaintiff’s position.”); Ash v. Ford 

Motor Co., No. 2:06CV210-B-A, 2008 WL 1745545, at *3 (N.D. Miss. Apr. 11, 2008)(the “party seeking discovery 

is not permitted to insist that [the responding party] choose a specific person to testify” as a Rule 30(b)(6) deponent 

and so “plaintiff was not entitled to insist on [the specified person’s] presence absent having served him with a 

subpoena.”); Booker v. Massachusetts Dept. of Public Health, 246 F.R.D. 387, 389 (D. Mass. 2007)(“Plaintiff may 

not impose his belief on Defendants as to whom to designate as a 30(B)(6) witness.”); Sanders v. Circle K Corp., 

137 F.R.D. 292, 294 (D. Ariz. 1991)(“Sanders’ motion to compel seeks to compel Circle K to designate Edmonds as 

the Rule 30(b)(6) deponent[,]” but the court concluded that “it would be clearly inappropriate to require Circle K to 

designate Edmonds as the corporate spokesperson[.]”). 

5 See Jarvis v. Carnival Corp., No. 16-CV-23727-MORENO/TURNOFF, 2017 WL 6987754, at *3 (S.D. Fla. Aug. 

29, 2017)(“The testimony of a Rule 30(b)(6) witness represents the collective knowledge of the corporation, not of 

the specific individual deponents.”); Richardson v. Rock City Mechanical Co., No. 3-09-0092, 2010 WL 711830, at 

*6 (M.D. Tenn. Feb. 24, 2010)(“The testimony of a Rule 30(b)(6) deponent represents the knowledge of the 

corporation, not the individual deponent, and thus the testimony of a Rule 30(b)(6) witness is different from that of a 

‘mere corporate employee[.]’”).
December 12, 2018 

Page 4 

representative need not have any personal knowledge pertaining to the topics of inquiry6 and his 

or her identity is not even considered relevant to the procedure.7 Once the identity of the witness 

becomes information mandated for disclosure, however, the noticing party can be expected to 

use that information to its advantage. As one example, the noticing party may use the advance 

notice of the witness’s identity to prepare an ambush in which a witness prepared to address 

corporate knowledge on topics identified in the Rule 30(b)(6) notice instead faces a barrage of 

questioning on matters within the witness’s personal knowledge but outside the scope of the 

topics listed in the Rule 30(b)(6) notice. The responding party cannot stop such questioning.8 

The record of such a deposition that mixes corporate representative and personal knowledge 

questions will be deeply confusing as to the capacity in which the witness is speaking at any 

given point, and will require frequently interjections by counsel to clarify the record and 

extensive jury instructions if presented at trial.9 

 Mandating pre-deposition conferral about witness identity does not address any need 

present in current Rule 30(b)(6) practice. This information has never been necessary for Rule 

30(b)(6) depositions to provide useful and efficient discovery on information known and 

available to an organization. Problematically, if conferral about the identity of the witness leads 

to disagreement between the parties,10 neither the proposed amendment nor the existing structure 

 

6 See Great American Ins. Co. of New York v. Vegas Constr. Co., 251 F.R.D 534, 538 (D. Nev. 2008)(“A Rule 

30(b)(6) designee is not required to have personal knowledge on the designated subject matter.”); Sprint 

Communications Co. v. TheGlobe.com, Inc., 236 F.R.D. 524, 528 (D. Kan. 2006)(“In other words, personal 

knowledge of the designated subject matter by the selected deponent is of no consequence.”). 

7 See Roca Labs, 2015 WL 12844307, at *2 (“the identity of Defendants’ corporate representatives is not relevant”); 

Cruz, 2014 WL 5364068, at *8 (“the Rule 30(b)(6) deponent’s name is irrelevant.”). 

8 See, e.g., Rivas v. Greyhound Lines, Inc., No. EP-14-CV-166-DB, 2015 WL 13710124, at *6, *8 (W.D. Tex. Apr. 

27, 2015), amended in part as to amount of the sanction at 2016 WL 11164796 (Jan. 11, 2016) (ruling that 

“depositions of corporate representatives designated pursuant to Rule 30(b)(6) are not limited to the topics listed in a 

Rule 30(b)(6) notice” and sanctioning counsel for instructing the witness not to answer questions outside the scope 

of the noticed Rule 30(b)(6) matters of inquiry); King v. Pratt & Whitney, 161 F.R.D. 475, (S.D. Fla. 1995)(“this 

Court concludes that Rule 30(b)(6) cannot be used to limit what is asked of a designated witness at a deposition.”). 

9 See, e.g., DeToy v. City and Cty. of San Francisco, 196 F.R.D. 362, 367 (N.D. Cal. 2000)(describing detailed 

objections and clarifications that defending counsel may make during a Rule 30(b)(6) deposition when questions 

beyond the scope of the noticed areas of examination are asked, and noting that jury instructions should be 

considered to indicate that responses to such questions “were merely the answers or opinions of individual fact 

witnesses, not admissions of the party.”).

10 The committee note seems to recognize the potential for disagreements to occur, noting that “the amendment does 

not require the parties to reach agreement.” Committee Note to Proposed Amendment to Federal Rule of Civil 

Procedure 30(b)(6), Preliminary Draft of Proposed Amendments to the Federal Rules of Appellate, Bankruptcy, and 

Civil Procedure, and the Federal Rules of Evidence - Request for Comment, August 2018, at 38.
December 12, 2018 

Page 5 

of Rule 30(b)(6) provides an objection mechanism for raising and resolving disputes. Rather 

than adopt the deeply flawed proposed amendment with its requirement to confer about witness 

identity, the Committee should reconsider concepts – such as a defined procedure for asserting 

and resolving objections – to address the functional inadequacies that have caused Rule 30(b)(6) 

to spawn a disproportionately large number of discovery disputes. 

 

Very truly yours, 

 Lee Mickus 
TAB 7 

COMMENT OF 

Bradley W. Petersen 

Slattery Petersen PLLC
Bradley W. Petersen 

2828 North Central Avenue, Suite 1111 

Phoenix, Arizona 85004 

bpetersen@slatterypetersen.com

602-507-6108

866-323-9593 (fax)

December 7, 2018 

Comment to Advisory Committee on Civil Rules on the Proposed Amendment 

to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 30(b)(6) 

Dear Committee Members: 

 I appreciate the opportunity to submit this comment in response to the proposed 

amendments to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure Rule 30(b)(6). While including a meet-and-confer 

requirement regarding the number and description of topics to be covered in a Rule 30(b)(6) 

deposition may be directionally helpful and is something I teach and endeavor to follow as part of 

my practice, I am very concerned about adopting a meet-and-confer requirement as to who the 

company chooses to vicariously represent it and testify as the company’s agent. Requiring a 

company to confer about its selection of a witness would be inappropriate and unhelpful because (1) 

it is and must be the company’s sole right and responsibility to select a representative of its 

choosing to speak for it vicariously as its agent; (2) allowing the noticing party select or even have a 

say in the selection of a company’s representative would contravene the purpose for adopting Rule 

30(b)(6), duplicate Rule 30(b)(1), and impose significant, unnecessary duties; and (3) it would be 

fundamentally unfair to allow a noticing party to force a company to prepare an undesirable 

representative to be knowledgeable and testify as the “face of the company.” Instead, the 

Committee should amend Rule 30(b)(6) to provide a better notice procedure, a formal procedure for 

making and resolving objections to noticed topics, a presumptive limit as to the number of topics, a 

clear statement regarding the use of multiple witnesses, and protection for work product used to 

prepare a company witness. 

Experience suggests that the proposed change to include a meet-and-confer requirement for 

selecting a company representative will lead to more problems, not less. 

By way of background, I have been practicing law for more than 19 years. I primarily 

represent large corporate clients in product liability, healthcare, and commercial litigation. In my 

career, I have had the privilege of trying cases throughout the United States. I began at Snell & 

Wilmer L.L.P., where I was a partner before leaving to grow Slattery Petersen PLLC, a trial and 

litigation boutique law firm with offices in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona. Our firm represents some 

of the largest companies in the United States and Arizona. 

I have significant experience with Rule 30(b)(6) depositions, including the preparation and 

defense of dozens of depositions as well as noticing and taking depositions. The depositions 
 

Page 2 

include not only federal courts but also state courts applying their concomitant rules. Given my 

experience, many years ago, I was asked to prepare and present a local continuing legal education 

course regarding preparation, problems, and suggestions associated with Rule 30(b)(6) depositions. 

Since that time, I have prepared and presented additional CLE courses through national webinars. 

The courses were generally titled something like Defending Rule 30(b)(6) Corporate Depositions 

and Successful Strategies and provided by the Clear Law Institute National CLE Webinar (April 

2015); Strafford National CLE Webinar (June 2014, April 2013, June 2012, and August 2011); and 

National Constitution Center CLE Webinar (October 2013). 

 I often introduce a Rule 30(b)(6) CLE by telling attendees that, while I love trying cases, the 

worst part of any trial is when my opponent plays a video of damaging testimony from my client’s 

company representative using a deposition taken in some prior case in which I was not involved. In 

the hands of a skilled trial lawyer, Rule 30(b)(6) can be a highly-efficient, highly-effective 

discovery device. It provides parties in multi-million-dollar, high exposure cases with a significant 

tool that can be used in program litigation for years and years. Unfortunately, the Rule gets 

abused—used as weapon to create discovery disputes that already over-worked courts often do not 

spend enough time trying to understand and fairly resolve thus leading to sanctions and a resolution 

based on something other than the true facts, evidence, and justice. 

 While the Committee has an opportunity to adopt changes to Rule 30(b)(6) that would 

provide better certainty to litigants and lawyers, which could avoid many of the discovery disputes 

that plague our courts, the proposed amendment is likely to have an opposite effect. More 

specifically, while meeting and conferring with counsel for the noticing party has long been a best 

practice that I advocate and follow when trying to understand the scope of the notice and deposition, 

it would be improper and counter-productive to meet-and-confer regarding my client’s proposed 

representative. As described below, identifying and selecting a representative to testify on behalf of 

a company must be the sole province of the company itself, particularly when the noticing party 

otherwise has an opportunity to select a company’s individual officer, director, or managing agent 

to testify by serving a Rule 30(b)(1) notice of deposition. 

It must be the company’s sole right and responsibility to select a representative of its choosing 

to speak for it vicariously as its agent. 

 Currently, Rule 30(b)(6) provides the company with the opportunity to “designate one or 

more officers, directors, or managing agents, or other persons who consent to testify on its behalf, 

and may set forth, for each person designated, the matters on which the person will testify.” The 

witness designated by a corporation “represents the corporation just as an individual represents him 

or herself at a deposition.” United States v. Taylor, 166 F.R.D. 356, 361 (M.D.N.C. 1996). “When 

a corporation or association designates a person to testify on its behalf, the corporation appears 

vicariously through that agent.” Resolution Trust Corp. v. S. Union Co., 985 F.2d 196, 197 (5th Cir. 

1993); see also Brazos River Auth. v. GE Ionics, Inc., 469 F.3d 416, 433 (5th Cir. 2006) (“When a 

corporation produces an employee pursuant to a Rule 30(b)(6) notice, it represents that the 

employee has the authority to speak on behalf of the corporation with respect to the areas within the 

notice of deposition.”). “In other words [due to this vicarious, agency relationship], the testimony 

of the Rule 30(b)(6) designee is deemed to be the testimony of the corporation itself.” State Farm 
 

Page 3 

Mut. Auto. Ins. Co. v. New Horizont, Inc., 250 F.R.D. 203, 212 (E.D. Pa. 2008) (citing Resolution 

Trust, supra). 

 When making a conscientious, good faith effort to select and prepare a representative to 

testify, under Rule 30(b)(6), companies face several duties: to be knowledgeable, to prepare, to 

designate more, and to supplement. Starlight Int'l, Inc., v. Herlihy, 186 F.R.D. 626, 638 (D. Kan. 

1999); Alexander v. FBI, 186 F.R.D. 148, 151 (D.D.C. 1999). While these duties may be onerous, 

courts generally view these burdens as the “concomitant obligation from the privilege of being able 

to use the corporate form in order to conduct business.” See United States v. Taylor, 166 F.R.D. 

356, 362 (M.D.N.C. 1996); see also AG-Innovations, Inc. v. U.S., 82 Fed. Cl. 69, 81 (2008). In 

most instances, it is not acceptable for a company’s representative to merely rely on “personal 

knowledge;” rather, the representative must be prepared to testify as to information that is known or 

reasonably available to the company, as a whole. Reed v. Bennett, 193 F.R.D. 689 (D. Kan. 2000). 

In that way, a Rule 30(b)(6) deposition of a company employee is considered to be a distinct, 

different deposition from the same employee as an individual because the depositions serve distinct 

purposes and impose different obligations. United States v. Taylor, 166 F.R.D. at 361. 

 Right now, Rule 30(b)(6) operates well in conjunction with other rules, like Federal Rules of 

Evidence 801 and 802. Rules 801 and 802 provide that a declarant’s out-of-court testimony offered 

for the truth of the matter asserted is inadmissible hearsay, except that an opposing party’s 

statement is not hearsay when it is made by the party in a representative capacity, by a person who 

the party authorized to make the statement, or by the party’s agent or employee on a matter within 

the scope of the relationship while it existed. See Fed. R. Evid. 801, 802. A party who takes the 

deposition of an opposing party’s representative may ultimately use that out-of-court deposition 

testimony at trial to prove the truth of the matter asserted because the testimony is made in the 

witness’s representative capacity, who the company authorized to speak on its behalf, while the 

agent was discussing matters within the scope of the company-representative relationship. See Fed. 

R. Evid. 801, 802. The admission of party opponent testimony is consistent with Federal Rule of 

Civil Procedure 32, which negates the effect of a hearsay objection under Rules 801 and 802, if the 

testimony is of a party; the party’s officer, director, or managing agent; or the party’s designee 

under Rule 30(b)(6). Fed. R. Civ. P. 32(a); Ueland v. U.S., 291 F.3d 993 (7th Cir. 2002). 

 It would make little sense for anyone other than the company to select or even have a say-so 

in the selection of a representative to testify vicariously for the company as its agent. By including 

a meet-and-confer obligation, it pre-supposes that the noticing party or the court could participate in 

choosing the witness or, at the extreme, impose their will and choose the company’s representative 

for it. In doing so, however, it would remove the vicarious, agency associations with the company. 

In other words, the deposition testimony would no longer be of the company itself. Further, if an 

employee was chosen to testify for the company by someone else—a representative whom the 

company did not vicariously adopt as its agent—the employee’s testimony would not be of the 

company but that of the employee; and if the employee’s testimony was based on something other 

than personal knowledge, like preparation provided by reading documents and talking to other 

employees, it would be inadmissible hearsay without foundation under Federal Rules of Evidence 

602, 801, and 802. Similarly, while the testimony of an employee with no associated vicarious, 

agency relationship should not qualify for Rule 32 admissibility, even if it did, Rule 32 cures only 
 

Page 4 

one layer of what would likely be “double hearsay” or “hearsay within hearsay” within the meaning 

of Federal Rule of Evidence 805; it may cure the “deponent” layer but not the “declarant” layer. 

Estate of Thompson v. Kawasaki Heavy Indus., 291 F.R.D. 297, 308 (N.D. Iowa 2013). If the 

company did not vicariously accept the employee as its agent, it would be improper and 

fundamentally unfair for the employee’s testimony to be use against it. 

Allowing the noticing party to select or have any say-so in the selection of a company’s 

representative would contravene the purpose for adopting Rule 30(b)(6), duplicate Rule 

30(b)(1), and impose significant, unnecessary duties. 

 For the last 80 years since the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure were first adopted, parties 

have been able take the deposition of a company through an officer, director, or managing agent of 

the noticing parties’ choosing through Rule 30(b)(1). Not surprisingly, this led to problems that the 

Advisory Committee sought to eliminate almost 50 years ago. Rule 30(b)(6) was designed as an 

optional discovery device to supplement the existing practice where the noticing party designates 

the specific company officer, director, or managing agent to be deposed. Cates v. LTV Aerospace 

Corp., 480 F.2d 620, 623 (5th Cir. 1973) (citing Advisory Committee Notes to Rule 30(b)(6), 48 

F.R.D. at 515.). The Advisory Committee Notes to Rule 30(b)(6) provide: 

This procedure supplements the existing practice whereby the examining party 

designates the corporate official to be deposed. Thus, if the examining party believes 

that certain officials who have not testified pursuant to this subdivision have added 

information, he may depose them. On the other hand, a court's decision whether to 

issue a protective order may take account of the availability and use made of the 

procedures provided in this subdivision. 

The new procedure should be viewed as an added facility for discovery, one which 

may be advantageous to both sides as well as an improvement in the deposition 

process. It will reduce the difficulties now encountered in determining, prior to the 

taking of a deposition, whether a particular employee or agent is a “managing agent.” 

See Note, Discovery Against Corporations Under the Federal Rules, 47 Iowa L. 

Rev. 1006-1016 (1962). It will curb the “bandying” by which officers or managing 

agents of a corporation are deposed in turn but each disclaims knowledge of facts 

that are clearly known to persons in the organization and thereby to it. Cf. Haney v. 

Woodward & Lothrop, Inc., 330 F.2d 940, 944 (4th Cir. 1964). 

Advisory Committee Notes to Rule 30(b)(6) (1970). 

 For almost 50 years, the Rules and courts applying the Rules have recognized the distinction 

between an individual deposition and a company representative deposition. If the noticing party 

wants to take a particular company employee’s deposition regarding that employee’s personal 

knowledge and can establish that the employee is a managing agent appropriate to sit for deposition, 

then the noticing party may choose to proceed under Rule 30(b)(1). GTE Products Corp. v. Gee, 

115 F.R.D. 67 68 (D. Mass. 1987); Sugarhill Records, Ltd. v. Motown Record Corp., 105 F.R.D. 

166, 169 (S.D.N.Y. 1985). 
 

Page 5 

Thus, if a noticing party wants information from a specific company officer, director, or 

managing agent, that party may proceed to obtain that witness’s personal-knowledge-based 

testimony. A company’s obligation to prepare a representative applies only to a deposition taken 

pursuant to Rule 30(b)(6); it does not apply to a deposition taken under Rule 30(b)(1). While a Rule 

30(b)(1) deposition of an officer, director, or managing agent may be used against the company, 

there is no duty for such a witness to review anything or to be prepared and able to 

answer questions. If the noticing party wants prepared, educated testimony regardless of the 

witness’s position in the company, then the noticing party can proceed under Rule 30(b)(6). And if 

still not satisfied, the noticing party may always pursue the deposition of a specific, “regular” 

employee (i.e., not an officer, director, managing agent, or Rule 30(b)(6) representative) under Rule 

45. Archer Daniels Midland Co. v. Aon Risk Servs., Inc., 187 F.R.D. 578, 587 (D. Minn. 1999). 

The differences between Rules 30(b)(1), 30(b)(6), and 45 provide options to the noticing party as 

well as balance, fairness, and appropriate protections to the responding party. 

It would be fundamentally unfair to allow a noticing party to force a company to prepare an 

undesirable representative to be knowledgeable and testify as the “face of the company.” 

 While the predominant rule across the country is that Rule 30(b)(6) testimony should be 

treated as an evidentiary (not judicial) admission which may be explained or rebutted, it is in all 

parties’ best interests to get it right the first time. In my experience, company defendants work very 

hard to identify appropriate witnesses who can be educated to testify as to the company’s 

knowledge regarding a host of topics and answer questions appropriately. Decisions regarding the 

selection of a company representative are not made in a vacuum and are often based on a variety of 

factors. In my experience, I consider: 

 Witness’s qualifications; 

 Witness’s personal knowledge and experience; 

 Witness’s prior experience testifying; 

 Witness’s disposition (potentially as it relates to the noticing attorney’s disposition); 

 Witness’s ability to be educated to testify regarding the depth and breadth of topics; 

 Organization’s interest in having someone with personal knowledge testifying (both 

good and bad); 

 The time and resources of the company, its counsel, and the witness to become 

knowledgeable through preparation; 

 Whether the witness may be pulled away from a day job and fulfilling normal 

responsibilities to the company; 

 Access to company resources, including present and potentially former employees; and 

 Witness as “the face of the company.” 

This analysis takes time before recommendations and decisions can be made. The inclusion of a 

meet-and-confer requirement as to the witness will only make this more difficult, time-consuming, 

and costly. Further, it begs the question as to how much of the analysis must be shared with the 

noticing party and the court, particularly when the analysis should be protected by attorney-client 

privilege and work product. 
 

Page 6 

The concerns about meeting and conferring regarding a company’s witness are magnified 

when the designated topics number in the dozens. In one recent extreme example, a notice of 

company representative deposition included 149 separate topics. It is not unusual for my clients in 

non-class-action, personal-injury product liability cases to receive a notice of deposition with 20 to 

60 topics, sometimes with subparts. It is too much. Company parties should not have to face those 

types of notices, let alone have to meet-and-confer as to the one or more witnesses the company 

must designate to testify in response. 

Nonetheless, if a company has to proceed in the face of these types of notices, the company 

should at least get to choose its witness to testify vicariously as its agent. It would be an awfully 

strange rule that would allow an opposing party to select or even have a say in making such a 

decision. When the company makes the decision to identify a particular company representative, it 

does so trying to get it right, both for the sake of defending the case on the merits but also to avoid a 

potential discovery dispute and possible sanctions. 

 Consider a situation in which an opposing party insists on have a specific company 

employee serve as the company’s Rule 30(b)(6) witness. Whether through some knowledge, 

guesswork, or sheer happenstance, it turns out that the employee has a learning disability or social 

anxiety or a bad temper—or all three. Perhaps the company may have to produce the employee 

under Rule 30(b)(1) or Rule 45. But doing so would be just one employee’s testimony limited to 

personal knowledge. The company would not pick that employee to try to educate, give testimony 

on dozens of topics, and be the face of the company, particularly against opposing counsel who may 

be aggressive and overbearing. 

Under the scenario described above or many others that could be contemplated, it is easy to 

foresee many issues: 

 Should the company have to publicly disclose its concerns about having a specific 

employee serve as its representative? 

 Will sharing information avoid having the employee deposed or simply invite more 

notices of deposition? 

 If the noticing party or court chooses the representative for the company, but the 

representative fails to give knowledgeable testimony despite the company’s best efforts 

to educate the employee, will it be admissible against the company? 

 How will any jury be able to set aside the earlier testimony? 

 Will the company be sanctioned for not giving knowledgeable, educated answers to 

questions about the proper topics of a Rule 30(b)(6) deposition when the noticing party 

chose the witness? 

 If the Committee is concerned about the discovery disputes still arising from Rule 

30(b)(6) almost 50 years after its inception, can the Committee imagine the discovery 

disputes that will arise if it takes away the company’s exclusive ability to select an agent 

to testify vicariously for it? 

While some concerns are easy to see coming, there will no doubt be others that arise and even more 

difficult to resolve. 
 

Page 7 

There are several changes that the Committee could make to Rule 30(b)(6) that would greatly 

help litigants and lawyers. 

 I spend a disproportionate amount of my time in discovery arguing about, preparing for, and 

defending Rule 30(b)(6) depositions largely because the Rule lacks clarity and the case law 

interpreting and applying the Rule varies greatly, sometimes diametrically, from jurisdiction to 

jurisdiction. The Committee should consider changes to Rule 30(b)(6) and related Rules. 

Meet-and-Confer: As indicated above, the Committee’s proposed change to include a 

meet-and-confer requirement regarding the scope of the deposition and topics may be directionally 

helpful, but falls short. It lacks clear guidance as to what must be discussed. Also, the discussion 

needs to happen sooner—at the Rule 26(f) conference stage and as part of the parties’ joint report 

for a Rule 16 scheduling conference. When I have been able to raise Rule 30(b)(6) depositionrelated issues early and discuss topics, timing, limitations, and other logistics, it has avoided later 

discovery disputes. 

Notice: There should be a better notice procedure that recognizes the significant differences 

between a Rule 30(b)(1) deposition based on a witness’s then-existing personal knowledge and a 

Rule 30(b)(6) deposition which requires preparation and education. The time and resources 

required to respond to a Rule 30(b)(6) deposition are often more significant than responding to Rule 

33 interrogatories, Rule 34 requests for production, and Rule 36 requests of admission, which give 

30 days to respond. Nonetheless, Rule 30(b)(6) does not give a presumptive notice requirement that 

would allow a company to timely respond. The Committee should amend Rule 30(b)(6) to include 

a presumptive, minimum 30-day notice requirement, while also giving the parties the latitude to 

meet-and-confer as to whether more or less time may be reasonable under the particular 

circumstances of the case. 

Response and Objection: There is no formal, efficient procedure for responding and 

objecting to Rule 30(b)(6) notice topics or resolving any differences. I generally advocate for and 

follow a process similar to Rule 45 whenever possible. Within a reasonable amount of time before 

the noticed deposition, I serve a response indicating the topics for which a witness will be produced 

to respond and any objections or limitations as to others. I then meet-and-confer with opposing 

counsel to try to reach an agreement that will allow the deposition to proceed. Often this is 

successful. But when it is not, the Rules are vague and the case law varies greatly. As to 

disagreements, either the noticing party could file a motion to compel or the responding party could 

file a motion for protective order and courts often punish parties who do nothing. The Committee 

should amend Rule 30(b)(6) to include a process similar to Rule 45 whereby the responding party 

must serve any objections at least 14 days before the noticed deposition and then allowing for a 

motion to compel to be filed if the parties cannot resolve their differences through a meet-andconfer process. 

Presumptive Limit on Topics: The Rules include presumptive limits for many forms of 

discovery, including the number and duration of depositions and the number of interrogatories. 

Given the significant time and resources required to respond to a properly noticed Rule 30(b)(6) 

deposition, there should be some presumptive limit as to the number of topics and discrete subparts. 
 

Page 8 

It is mind-boggling that a party would serve a notice of deposition with dozens of topics, let alone 

149 topics in the example described above. It is discovery abuse. The Committee should amend 

Rule 30(b)(6) to include a presumptive limit of 10 topics including discrete subparts, while also 

giving the parties the latitude to meet-and-confer as to whether more or less may be reasonable 

under the particular circumstances of the case. Further, limiting the number of Rule 30(b)(6) topics 

still allows the noticing party to pursue other depositions under Rules 30(b)(1) and 45. 

Scope of the Deposition and Counting: There is significant disagreement as whether a 

noticing party should be able to ask questions of a company representative that go beyond the scope 

of the topics. There also is significant disagreement as to how a Rule 30(b)(6) deposition with 

multiple witnesses should be counted toward the presumptive limits of 10 depositions and 

completion of a deposition in one day, not to exceed seven hours. These disagreements are related 

and stem from differences in the Committee notes and case law applying Rule 30(b)(6). The more 

recent Committee note, which suggests counting a Rule 30(b)(6) as one deposition but allowing 

deposition questioning of each witness for up to seven hours, is causing negative effects particularly 

in jurisdictions that permit questioning beyond the scope of topics. Companies should be 

encouraged to identify the right witnesses to testify on the designated topics and not be penalized by 

extending depositions and increasing costs. And a noticing party should not be allowed to take two 

depositions of a witness by exceeding the scope of the Rule 30(b)(6) notice and then later taking an 

individual deposition under Rule 30(b)(1) or Rule 45. 

There are legitimate discovery disputes that can easily be resolved by an amendment to the 

Rules that acknowledges the purpose of Rule 30(b)(6) as well as the practical availability of taking 

depositions via Rules 30(b)(1) and 45. The Committee should amend Rule 30(b)(6) to count as one 

deposition (one day, seven-hour limit), subject to a presumptive limit on topics and limited to the 

scope of the topics, regardless of the number witnesses. By doing so, it appropriately protects the 

responding party and witness, while still giving the noticing party an opportunity to proceed with 

another deposition of an individual witness under Rule 30(b)(1) or Rule 45. If a noticing party 

chooses to exceed the scope of the topics, it would then prevent the noticing party from taking 

another deposition of that witness under Rule 30(b)(1) or Rule 45. To that end, there could be an 

exception to the counting and scope rule that would allow the parties to agree that the deposition of 

individual company representative witnesses could exceed the scope of the topics and be expanded 

to the seven-hour limit so long as the deposition also counts as that witness’s individual deposition, 

which may otherwise have been noticed under Rule 30(b)(1) or Rule 45. For example, if a 

defendant company designates John and Jane to testify as company representatives, the plaintiff 

could elect to depose both John and Jane in their company representative and individual capacities 

to be counted as two depositions toward the presumptive limit with each deposition limited to seven 

hours on a single day; thus neither John nor Jane could be deposed for a second time without leave 

of Court. In other words, so long as each individual representative must only sit for one day of 

deposition, not to exceed seven hours, that day of deposition counts as one deposition for each 

witness, even if taken under Rule 30(b)(6) and Rule 30(b)(1) or Rule 45. If the noticing party will 

not agree to this process, then the Rule 30(b)(6) deposition must be limited to the topics and 

completed in one day, not to exceed seven hours. 
 

Page 9 

Documents: Rule 30(b)(6) depositions often concern company documents that are not 

specifically included as topics in a notice but does include a topic and request for production related 

to the materials and information the witness received and reviewed to prepare for the deposition. 

When I receive one of these notices, as part of my meet-and-confer efforts, I ask the opposing 

attorney to provide any documents that may be used in the deposition. The opposing attorney often 

refuses on the basis of work product protection, apparently wanting to “surprise” the witness and 

not give away any strategy. Yet the opposing party demands to know and obtain any documents 

used to prepare the witness, including those selected by attorneys which could similarly be argued is 

work product and reveals the company’s strategy. Many courts have correctly ruled that documents 

selected by an attorney to prepare a Rule 30(b)(6) witness are work product. Some have not and yet 

they allow a noticing attorney to use company documents to question a witness without identifying 

those documents before the deposition. The Committee should amend Rule 30(b)(6) to expressly 

protect from disclosure any attorney work product including the selection of documents used to 

prepare a company witness. Alternatively, the Rule should be amended to reflect a balanced 

approach. If the noticing party is going to ask a Rule 30(b)(6) witness about company documents, 

the noticing party must specifically identify those documents in the notice and only then can the 

noticing party demand that the company witness identify and produce the documents used to 

prepare for the deposition. 

Conclusion. 

 The Committee should not proceed with the proposed amendment to Rule 30(b)(6) requiring 

a company to meet-and-confer regarding the witness a company selects to vicariously represent it, 

as it is improper and will undoubtedly lead to even more discovery disputes and evidentiary issues. 

Instead, the Committee should adopt concrete amendments that can provide certainty to litigants 

and lawyers and will prevent future discovery disputes. 

 Thank you for your time and consideration. I have requested the opportunity to testify at the 

January 4, 2019 hearing in Phoenix, Arizona. 

Best regards, 

Bradley W. Petersen 
TAB 8

TESTIMONY OF

Bill Rossbach

Rossbach Law, P.C.





TAB 9 

COMMENT OF 

John Isaac Southerland 

Huie, Fernambucq & Stewart, LLP






TAB 10

TESTIMONY OF

John Sundahl

Defense Lawyers Association of Wyoming