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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

DISTRICT OF OREGON

THE HON. MICHAEL J. McSHANE, JUDGE PRESIDING

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Government,

vs.

DANIEL STEPHEN JOHNSON,

Defendant.

)

)

)

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)

No. 6:14-cr-00482-MC-1

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

EUGENE, OREGON

Friday, May 4, 2018

Day 5, Morning Session

Volume 4A - PAGES 435 -508

DEBORAH COOK, RPR, CSR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

405 East 8th Avenue

Suite 2130

Eugene, Oregon 97401

(541) 431-4162

Deborah_Cook@ord.uscourts.gov

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APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

FOR THE GOVERNMENT:

Jeffrey S. Sweet

United States Attorney's Office

405 E. Eighth Avenue, Suite 2400

Eugene, OR 97401

541-465-6771

Fax: 541-465-6917

Email: Jeff.sweet@usdoj.gov

Lauren E. Britsch

U.S. Department of Justice

Criminal Division

1400 New York Ave NW, 6th Floor

Washington, DC 20530

202-514-2220

Fax: 202-514-1793

Email: Lauren.britsch@usdoj.gov

Ravi Sinha

United States Attorney's Office

1000 SW Third Ave, Suite 600

Portland, OR 97204

503-727-1014

Fax: 503-727-1117

Email: Ravi.sinha@usdoj.gov

FOR THE DEFENDANT:

Craig E. Weinerman

Office of the Federal Public Defender

859 Willamette Street, Suite 200

Eugene, OR 97401

541-465-6937

Fax: 541-465-6975

Email: Craig_weinerman@fd.org

Lisa A. Maxfield

Pacific Northwest Law LLP

1255 NW Ninth Avenue, No. 11

Portland, OR 97209

(503) 222-2661

Fax: (503) 222-2864

Email: Lamaxfield@pacificnwlaw.com

*****

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WITNESS INDEX

Page/Line

FOR THE GOVERNMENT

SES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 447 8

DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continuing)

BY MR. SWEET

447 16

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MS. MAXFIELD:

451 3

CC XXXXXX 460 14

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. BRITSCH

461 11

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

489 18

EXHIBIT OFFERED INDEX

EXHIBIT 274 OFFERED 483 11

EXHIBIT RECEIVED INDEX

EXHIBIT 27, 28, RECEIVED 464 23

EXHIBIT 88 RECEIVED 476 20

EXHIBIT 106 RECEIVED 477 10

EXHIBIT 103 RECEIVED 478 4

EXHIBIT 112 RECEIVED 478 15

EXHIBIT 113 RECEIVED 479 6

EXHIBIT 274 RECEIVED 483 14

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PROCEEDINGS

Friday, May 4, 2018, at 9:08 a.m.

THE COURT: Good morning, everybody.

MS. BRITSCH: Good morning, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Are we ready for the jury?

MR. SWEET: If we could have a minute to discuss a

few things, Your Honor. One, just to alert the Court, the

government learned the witness from yesterday, SES XXXXX,

wanted to speak to the government. So Ms. Maxfield, myself,

and an interpreter went to talk with him to see if there was

something significant. Both of us are satisfied it was not.

We do have a copy of the transcript from yesterday's

proceedings. There was something that all the parties are

checking on to see exactly what was said, because the

government would like to address that with a motion to limit

potential line of cross, and we're finding that now.

And finally, Your Honor, there was one very short

additional line of questioning, which I did want to get into

with Mr. SESX. And I realize I ended my questioning. I am

asking for permission to reopen my direct briefly.

Understanding that if they object, I may have to call him

back later for this, so for efficiency --

THE COURT: I am pretty flexible on reopening it. I

would give it some recross, even though I typically don't,

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but I'll allow both sides -- because there's been a lot of

difficulties with understanding through the translator

exactly what is said. I am trying to be flexible.

MR. SWEET: I will keep that brief.

MS. BRITSCH: If I may address one issue that is

relevant to our second witness. The government's proposed

Exhibit 274 has been provided to the defense and the Court.

I understand at this time defense is going to object on 403

grounds to some parts of that exhibit, so I wanted to alert

the Court so the Court has time to review it. And that will

be for the second witness, CC XXXXXX.

MR. WEINERMAN: Judge, I am sorry. I am ready to

make my case on that.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

MR. WEINERMAN: So, Judge, you had the exhibit in

front of you.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: I am objecting not to the text, I am

objecting to the Photoshop photographs of Mr. CCXX, Mr. CCXX

XXXX. Apparently those were Photoshopped by Mr. Johnson, and

e-mailed to CC XXXXXX. So I will read the numbers at the

bottom of the page, so 263, 265, 266, 268, 270, and 271, and

272.

And the basis is 403 -- the text of the Facebook

chats clearly make the government's case that Mr. Johnson was

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trying to contact CC XXXXXX and wanted him to visit him in

prison, and was encouraging, and said all sorts of things, he

loved him and all the rest.

I think the photographs start to get into the area

of kind of a disturbing, very prejudicial characterization of

what Mr. Johnson was doing -- disturbing, weird, some of

these photographs just are very strange, very weird.

And subject to a jury taking them the wrong way, I

mean, they are going to hear a lot of testimony. Mr. CCXX

XXXX is going to talk about having been sexually violated by

Mr. Johnson. So this seems to be unnecessary, and it will

confuse the issues and might get the jury to decide this

thing on an improper basis.

So we don't think the government needs it. We think

it's extremely prejudicial. The probative value is limited.

And the government proves the relationship and Mr. Johnson's

infatuation, if you want to call it that, with Mr. CC XXXXXX

by the text and all the other evidence, and they don't need

these photographs.

THE COURT: I will overrule the objection. I think

the photographs do go towards -- I think as counsel stated,

somewhat of an infatuation with the particular witness, which

I understand is prejudicial, but not unduly prejudicial.

It's very probative to one of the key issues in the case. I

think it also certainly suggests by sending the photos that

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Page 441

there's some continued grooming that is going on. That is at

the heart of the case, so the objection to the photographs

will be overruled.

MS. BRITSCH: Thank you, Your Honor.

MR. SINHA: So I think the next thing we were hoping

to raise with the Court is yesterday during testimony, the

government's last witness, SES XXXXX, mentioned about there

being rules put in place to stop adults -- to stop people

from touching each other in their private areas while at the

orphanage.

And my understanding is that Mr. Weinerman has

considered that that might open the door to leave the Court's

prior 412 ruling. So if the Court would allow me, I have a

transcript of yesterday that I would like to talk about.

May I approach?

THE COURT: Yes:

MR. SINHA: So this is on page 430, and I believe

Mr. Sweet's question starts at line 10.

THE COURT: (Reading document.)

MR. SINHA: So, Your Honor, our position is that we

don't believe that this opens the door. I think the Court's

ruling recognized that what was important from Mr. Johnson's

perspective is the notion that Mr. Johnson put in place

strict rules, that the boys didn't like those strict rules,

and that would be a reason for them to be biased.

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Page 442

This doesn't seem particularly to apply to the boys

insofar as Mr. SESX appears to be talking about adults to the

adults. And even insofar as it's ambiguous, I don't think it

changes the animating factors of the Court's prior ruling.

Mr. Johnson could before, and could now, continue to argue

that there was strict rules.

The content of the rules as it applies to the

victims' sexual behavior, I don't think is relevant, and I

think is precluded by 412, and by the things that have caused

412 to be adopted, which is it would needlessly embarrass the

victims for no particular purpose.

THE COURT: Okay.

MS. MAXFIELD: My position is -- My understanding of

the Court's 412 ruling, as I recall, I explained to the Court

that there's a -- the government is going to present evidence

of a confrontation that supposedly occurred between my client

and Pastor Sopheak. When Pastor Sopheak was interviewed by

the FBI, he talked about this rule where he said Daniel set a

rule about boys not being able to touch each other's penises

and not being able to sleep with each other, and that's what

I went and talked to Daniel about. Which is consistent with

what my client would say on the witness stand.

I believe that this corroborates our account of what

occurred there. And the Court told me I could question

Pastor Sopheak about that exchange with the FBI, and what

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that meant.

THE COURT: Correct. That's certainly a prior

consistent statement, and I think that would come in.

With regard to crossing this witness about other

children having sexual contact -- and my ruling has been that

that has to be limited. Looking at this transcript,

Mr. Sweet did not ask a very broad question. He narrowed it

specifically to touching of Daniel Johnson. The witness went

a little, obviously, further, and talked about a rule that

prevented touching between the different children in the

house.

I think still the heart of the defense is that the

children were punished for breaking rules, and therefore,

falsifying the allegations of sexual abuse. But I think the

key to that is there's been some over discipline for breaking

rules. I don't think we need to go into the fact that the

children themselves were behaving sexually with each other.

So I can have you cross examine him on Mr. Johnson's

response to the children breaking his rules, but I want to

stay away from the fact that the children were in some way

sexually active with each other.

MS. MAXFIELD: My proposed line of questioning, and

it sounds to me like part of it has been taken out, but I

wanted to talk to him about whether there was a rule, whether

that was a rule that he actually printed on a big sign, and I

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Page 444

don't know where that sign went. Whether there were times

that the rule was broken, not with specific children, and

what punishment was imposed.

THE COURT: I don't think whether it was -- well,

all right. I will allow you that in your line of

questioning, but without going into, were the kids in fact --

any particular kids, or the extent of how often things were

occurring between the children, that there were rules. One

of the rules had to do with the kids touching each other, was

that rule broken, and what was the response. All right.

MR. WEINERMAN: Judge, one other thing, sorry this

just came up. So this is now getting back to the testimony

of CC XXXXXX, C-C-X-X. CC XXXXXX has made many different

disclosures to many different people in -- initially after

the arrest in 2013, he made some limited disclosures to

either Cambodian National Police or APLE or both, of

touching. And then he was interviewed by the FBI forensic

examiner on November 9, 2014, where he made a little further

disclosure, said there was touching, skin to skin, and to

genitals.

Then he went and made disclosures recanting that to

a defense investigator twice, and to the FBI. And this was

in 2015 and 2016. And that brings us now to March 21st,

2017, where he was back saying that Daniel Johnson sexually

abused him, and for the first time got into more graphic

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Page 445

things like anal rape, and things of that nature.

The government wants to play a 30-minute videotape

of Mr. CC XXXXXX's forensic interview with the government.

We believe it's appropriate on the issue of him saying anal

rape for the first time, and being able to explain why he

came forward for the first time, but it seems to me the

government should not be allowed to play the entire tape

under these circumstances.

It's in essence allowing him to testify twice. Once

on the stand, in which he can explain the inconsistencies and

why he said what to who. But to again, right after that,

allow the government to play a 30-minute videotape where he's

essentially going to be repeating everything he says in his

testimony, it seems to me the Court should not allow it. All

of this is not a prior consistent statement, because it

happened on March 21st. And the things that happened before

really don't qualify as prior consistent statements.

So we think the Court should limit the government to

the one page of the transcript and the tape in which he says

for the first time to anybody that there was anal rape.

MS. BRITSCH: Your Honor, we have clipped this video

down. It is 30 minutes, but it's not the entire interview.

We clipped it down to what we believe is relevant, and he

will testify to everything that is in this video so it would

be a prior consistent statement.

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We only intend to offer it on redirect after

Mr. Weinerman presumably cross examines him on these multiple

statements. This video and transcript includes his

explanations for those statements, and the further sexual

abuse that he suffered from Mr. Johnson.

It is long, but I don't believe it is needlessly

long, and I believe it would all be a prior consistent

statement.

THE COURT: Let's take it up after cross, and if I

could have a copy of the transcript that would help.

MS. BRITSCH: Certainly, Your Honor. And Your

Honor, for the record, we did redact a portion of the

transcript. I discussed this with defense counsel. It's on

the bottom of page 28. There's some questions where CC X

inquires whether this has happened to boys in the United

States. I believe the discussion is about sexual abuse

generally, but it could have been interpreted to be specific

to Mr. Johnson so that's been redacted from the transcript

and the video.

THE COURT: Thank you. All right. Bring in the

jury.

(JURY IN.)

THE COURT: Please be seated, folks. Happy Friday.

We're at the final day of this week. We're going to return

to our previous witness, if we could bring him in, and

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DIRECT EXAM CONTINUING - SES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Page 447

Mr. Sweet is going to ask a few more questions.

MR. SWEET: Thank you. We recall SES XXXXX.

THE COURT: Mr. SESX, you can have a seat in the

witness stand, and you are still under oath in this case. I

will have Mr. Sweet ask you some additional questions, and

then Mr. Johnson's attorney will ask you some questions.

SES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,

produced as a witness, having been previously duly sworn, was

examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

(NOTE: Unless otherwise indicated, all answers

represented by "A" and "THE WITNESS" will be answers given by

the witness through the interpreter after translation.)

DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continuing)

BY MR. SWEET:

Q Good morning, SESX.

A Good morning.

Q SESX, when you were at the last location, where did you

sleep?

A I sleep in the second level.

Q And who else slept in the second level?

A I don't remember at all. I do remember some.

Q Were they adults or boys?

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DIRECT EXAM CONTINUING - SES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Page 448

A It's a combination of kids, young, small one and big

one.

Q Was it sort of a dorm room on the second floor?

A Yes.

Q What kind of beds were they?

A Bunk beds.

Q Bunk beds?

A Yes.

Q Was there a night when something happened in that room?

A Yes, there was a night that an incident occurred, but

that day -- that night I just came back from the province. I

did not recall exactly whether I came from province of Prey

Veng or Kampot, but most of the time I came from Prey Veng

province.

But that night he was looking -- nighttime he was

looking for the kids, but I don't know in what manner he was

looking at them for, to get a massage -- for them to get a

massage or --

Q So do you know about what time it was?

A I don't remember the hour, but it was around 10, 11, 12,

but it's within the time period of 10 to 12.

Q And were -- so who came into the room?

A What room? Who came to what room? What are you --

Q So we're talking about what you saw that night, right?

A Yes. Yes.

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DIRECT EXAM CONTINUING - SES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Page 449

Q Were you in the bunk room on the second floor?

A Yes.

Q And where were you in that room?

A I was sleeping on my bed.

Q And were the lights in the room on or off?

A Off. It's already at least -- it's already 10:00. Any

time after 10:00 we have to turn off the lights.

Q And who came into the room where you were sleeping with

the lights off?

A D came into the room looking for the kids. I don't know

whether it was for massage or what, but D came into the room.

Q When you say D, is that Daniel Johnson?

A Yes.

Q And how did he see if the lights were off?

A He has a flashlight that he carried with him.

Q So what did you see him do in the room with the

flashlight?

A He's just looking around for the person -- what I meant

to say, he's just looking for the person he wants to find.

Q And did he find someone?

A Yeah. He found that person, but I don't know who or

which of the person that he found. At that time I was

already -- like, I fall asleep, you know, briefly, and I was

also very, very sleepy.

Q Once he found a person, what did he do?

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DIRECT EXAM CONTINUING - SES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Page 450

A He lift -- he grab and lift and put like a cradle

manner, or over his shoulder to his bedroom.

Q Did he take -- so are you saying he took a person out of

the room and back to his bedroom?

MS. MAXFIELD: Objection; calls for speculation.

THE COURT: Could you repeat the question? I am

sorry.

MR. SWEET: I am basically echoing his words, and

clarifying.

Q BY MR. SWEET: Did he take a person and carry the person

out of the room that you were in?

MS. MAXFIELD: Objection; as to the last part.

THE COURT: If he can answer it, I don't know. But

I'll overrule the objection.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

Q BY MR. SWEET: Was the person he carried out of the room

a large person or a small person?

A Small. A small person of average size, not too small

like a child.

Q Like your size, SESX?

A No. No, sir.

Q Like one of the younger boys' size?

A Yes.

MR. SWEET: Thank you. I have no further questions,

but Ms. Maxwell might.

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CROSS EXAMINATION - SES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Page 451

THE COURT: Cross-examination.

MS. MAXFIELD: Thank you, Your Honor.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MS. MAXFIELD:

Q Good morning, SESX. We met yesterday, and then again

this morning. I am Lisa Maxfield, and I am one of the

lawyers representing Daniel Johnson.

A Yes.

Q Did you have a chance to talk with anyone last night

about your testimony, or your day in court?

A Not -- no.

Q You testified yesterday about a rule in the house

regarding older boys touching each other. Do you recall that

testimony?

A Yes.

Q And was this a rule that was written?

A Yes.

Q And was it written and printed on signs that were about

this big (indicating)?

A Yes.

Q And this big would be like two 8 by 11 sheets?

A Yes. But it's -- that paper might be bigger than that,

bigger, because it's -- you have to write pretty big. Or

yeah, but it's about this size, because there's so many

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CROSS EXAMINATION - SES XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Page 452

rules.

Q There are more rules?

A Yes.

Q Did you actually go to the print shop to have all the

rules printed?

A I am not the one who went to there, but I just saw that

they are posted on the wall. There were so many rules.

Q And were those rules posted on walls on every level of

the center?

A Yes. On the first level and the second level and, at

other places, also. Yes.

Q I want to talk to you a little about the last house.

And I would like to show him Government Exhibit 139.

A Yes.

Q Is that what you are talking about when you talk about

the last house?

A Yes.

Q And did the center occupy both sides of that building,

or one side?

A Only the one house.

Q And before you got into the center, or the grounds of

the center, was there a gate out to the main street?

A Yes.

Q And was that a gate that locked?

A Yes.

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Q Was that gate locked each night?

A Yes.

Q And was that a gate that was about ten feet tall?

A Yes, perhaps there is a path for cars to enter into, and

then also there's a passage for a person walking into.

Q So were there two gates or one?

A There's two doors. One is for the car to enter in, and

the other one is -- a smaller one is for motorcycles, or

bicycle, or people walking through.

Q And were all those entryways locked at night?

A Yes. It is a rule in there. It's in that rule of the

paper. The door must be closed and locked around 10:00,

9:30 -- 9:30 or 10:00, and around that time.

Q Who was in charge of locking those gates?

A If you are speaking in terms of the last house, it would

be Sambo who is one in charge of locking up that. And it

might be other people who has access to that, but I am not

sure.

Q Let me show you what's been marked as -- gosh, you guys,

I need better bifocals -- Defense Exhibit 604.

A JUROR: We can't see that.

THE COURT: Can you publish that?

COURT CLERK: I am.

MS. MAXFIELD: Page 7, I am sorry. There was a

page --

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Q BY MS. MAXFIELD: That's the breezeway that sits on the

side of the compound; is that right?

A Yes. Yes. That's on the bottom, the lower part.

That's in the area of the kitchen, or a place where you

eat -- the dining area.

Q So you had an outdoor kitchen and an outdoor dining

area?

A Yes. Yes. Yes.

Q Let me ask you this. Can you see what's been marked as

the same number, and I don't know what page we're at -- page

4? Now, is that the entryway into the center?

A Yes.

Q On either side of the men who are standing there, you

will see a red metal structure?

A Yes. There's -- on to the other side a little bit,

there's a swing, and there's like a little fish pond and

stuff like that that we keep.

Q Well, I want to talk to you about that red structure.

Is that another gate that closes to block access to the

center?

A That's not -- oh, the one that -- the metal thing where

the arrow is pointing? Yes, that is a door. And then

there's a glass that is behind that red door.

Q We're going to get there in a minute. First, I want to

talk about that red gate. Does that red gate close and lock

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at night?

A I am not certain. I am not clear about the red door,

the red gate. But I know, mostly, they close the glass door

and the front gate door is locked.

Q So behind that gate you are talking about a glass door

that was also locked at 9:30 at night?

A Yes.

Q And those locks were locked from the inside of the

center, not the outside; is that right?

A Yes.

Q The dorm that you were in on the second floor -- let me

ask you this: Were there two rooms up on the second floor

where there were bunks?

A Yes. Yes.

Q One of them was a smaller room, one larger?

A Yes. Yes, because on the second floor there's one room

that is, you know, it's designated for a bedroom, and the

other one is more like an open area. But we use it as a

bedroom. We put bunk beds in there, so that's how it is on

the second floor.

Q So in the smaller room, the one that's blocked off, not

the open area, can you see from that room into the open area

of the dorm?

A Yeah. Like a balcony on the bigger room, there is a

glass that you can see each other -- in front where the patio

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or the porch area, you can see each other through the glass.

Q All right. So let me show you -- can we look at 604,

page 7, again? How about Government Exhibit 107? Why don't

we just head there.

You are talking about a patio that surrounds the

second level?

A Yes, but I -- when I look at this picture, looking at

the size of the room it doesn't seem like it reflects the

second half -- the last house, I am sorry. The last house.

But I don't exactly recall. I don't remember.

Q Let me back up a little bit and ask a couple of

questions, okay.

You talked about a balcony that surrounds the second

floor dormitory.

A Yes.

Q And to get into that second floor dormitory, you have to

be out on a balcony?

A Yes.

Q And there's a single entry from that balcony into the

dormitory?

A Yes. In that room there's a door, and there's only one

passage to go into that room.

Q When you go in the entryway, was there a fellow who

slept there named Mott?

THE INTERPRETER: Counsel, can you repeat the

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question?

Q BY MS. MAXFIELD: When you come right into the entry,

right off the balcony in the dormitory area, was there a

fellow who slept there named Mott?

A A fellow named Mott. I don't remember him too well.

Q Do you remember if there was someone who slept right

near the entry to protect the entryway?

A Perhaps, I do not remember about that point. However,

mostly, according to what I remember and with my ways of

going in and out, I hardly see anybody waiting there at that

entry clearly.

Q Do you remember a man named Mott?

A Yes, I recall -- I remember a person named Mott.

Q And did Mott sleep up on the second floor?

A Yes. Yeah. Mott also sleep on the second level, yes.

Q But Mott did not sleep in that big dormitory area that

you are talking about?

A Yes. Yes, I think if I can go back to what I can

remember now, there might be three rooms. The one, you know,

there's the small room, my room, and then that area where

there's a patio-porch area.

And the bedroom that's right next to the passage to

that big -- the other big room, is like -- can sleep about

three -- three to four people at the most, but it's a small

room.

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Q You did not sleep in the little room?

A I did not sleep in the little room.

Q In the first -- this new room that we're talking about,

was there a bunk set up right by the door?

A Yes, there is bunk beds.

Q And is that where Mott slept?

A I saw Mott and his friend, and maybe another person, but

I don't remember their names because they all the new people.

And I mostly -- I go in and out -- I come and go through the

provinces, and I don't stay there all the time.

Q I understand. When the other doors were locked, were

the entries into this main dormitory also locked?

A I don't recall exactly. Mostly sometimes it's locked,

and sometimes it's not. If it is locked, it's in delay --

the hours that were locked was not the regular scheduled

hours, much later. Because the people who protect the doors,

they spend time studying.

So when they are into their studying, they lock the

door at a later time. I do not know whether Mott was the one

who's in charge of holding the keys. I just know that Sambo

is the one in charge of the keys most of the times.

Q But the keys that we're talking about fit the front gate

going into the compound?

A Yes.

Q Those same keys fit the door into the building on the

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ground level?

A Yes. Because it's in a key ring.

Q And then Sambo would have also had keys to go into that

dormitory once the doors were locked at night?

A Yes.

Q And do you recall that those doors were locked at night

at the same time as the lights went out?

A Like I said, mostly the person guards the door. They

are busy, so it's always at a later time. However, most of

us around 10:00 or 9:30, we request that the lights be turned

off -- or we ask the lights be turned off because we're tired

and want to go to sleep. Yes.

Q But we agree that Mott guarded that door?

A I do not know whether Mott has -- I do not know whether

Mott -- do I not know whether Mott's role is to guard the

door. I just know he has a room next to it.

MS. MAXFIELD: I have nothing further, thank you.

The COURT: Any redirect?

MR. SWEET: Your Honor, thank you. The government

has no further questions for this witness.

THE COURT: Thank you very much, sir. You are free

to go. Appreciate your time.

THE WITNESS: May I step down now?

THE COURT: Yes, you may.

MS. BRITSCH: We will be using the same translator

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for the next witness. Does she need a break, or are we good

to continue?

THE INTERPRETER: I am fine, but when you ask a

question, give me a chance to drink something.

MS. BRITSCH: The United States calls CC XXXXXX,

please.

Your Honor, may we have one minute before the

witness comes?

THE COURT: Yes. Folks, if you want to stretch in

place, that's fine.

Sir, if you would like to step up to the witness

stand. Go ahead and remain standing for just a moment.

Ms. Pew is going to swear you to tell the truth.

CC XXXXXX,

produced as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was

examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: Yes.

COURT CLERK: Please be seated. State your name for

the record, spelling your first and last.

THE WITNESS: My name is CC X, C-C-X-X -- and

nickname. CC XXXXXX, C-C-X-X, X-X-X-X.

MR. WEINERMAN: Judge, could we have Mr. CC X speak

into the microphone?

THE COURT: Sir, there's a microphone in front of

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 461

you. If you could move up towards it, we would appreciate

it.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MS. BRITSCH: The other translator is available if

the testimony goes on too long, and we need to switch. Thank

you.

(NOTE: Unless otherwise indicated, all answers

represented by "A" and "THE WITNESS" will be answers given by

the witness through the interpreter after translation.)

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. BRITSCH:

Q Good morning, CC X.

A Yes.

Q How old are you?

A 19 years old.

Q And when is your birthday?

A The month of the XXXXX, the XXXX, 1998, the year.

Q I am going to ask you to take a look at Government's

Exhibit 153. It will be on the screen to your left. Do you

recognize this?

A Yes.

Q And is that your passport?

A Yes.

Q And the birth date on the passport says XXXXXX, 1998.

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Do you see that?

A Yes.

Q Is that birth date correct?

A Yes.

Q So your birthday is XXXXXX, 1998?

A Yes.

Q Thank you. And CC X, where are you from?

A I live in Prey Veng.

Q Is that a province in Cambodia?

A Yes.

Q And do you have a family in Prey Veng?

A Have.

Q And who are the members of your family?

A My mom.

Q Do you have any brothers or sisters?

A Yes.

Q How many?

A Four.

Q And are you the youngest, or the oldest, or somewhere in

the middle?

A I have the youngest, and then after the youngest it's I.

Q And do you have a father, CC X, in Cambodia?

A I have; however, he left us since we were small.

Q And do you live in Prey Veng now, CC X?

A Yes.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 463

Q And are you studying something there? You can take a

minute, CC X. There's some water there.

Are you okay, CC X?

A Yes.

Q And if you need a break, just let me know, okay? Can

you tell me if you are studying in Prey Veng right now?

A No.

Q Were you studying to be an auto mechanic?

A Yes.

Q And where is that?

A In Phnom Penh.

Q And CC X, what do you do for fun?

A Kickballs.

Q Do you like to play volleyball, too?

A Yes.

Q And what about soccer?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; relevancy.

THE COURT: Overruled. Let's just have some basic

questions before --

THE WITNESS: I like it.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: CC X, did you ever live in a place

called Hope Transition Center?

A Yes.

Q Was that in Phnom Penh, Cambodia?

A Yes.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 464

Q How old were you when you started living there?

A 12 years old.

Q How did you end up living at Hope Transition Center?

A At first I meet him in my town.

Q And when you say "him," who are you referring to?

A Daniel.

Q Is that Daniel Johnson?

A Yes.

Q You said you met him in your town. Is that Prey Veng?

A Yes.

Q What were you doing at that time when you met him?

A I was helping someone work on a bathroom.

Q And at some point did you move to Phnom Penh with Daniel

Johnson?

A Yes.

Q And that was at Hope Transition Center?

A Yes.

Q I am going to ask you to look at a few photos, please.

First is Government's Exhibit 27.

MS. BRITSCH: And, Your Honor, these are about five

photos. I don't believe defense has any objection to them.

THE COURT: They will be published.

(EXHIBIT 27, 28, RECEIVED.)

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Do you recognize this photo, CC X?

A Yes.

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Page 465

Q Is that you?

A Yes.

Q Do you remember where that photo was taken?

A The first house.

Q Is that the first house of Hope Transition Center?

A Yes.

Q And about how old are you in this photo?

A 12.

Q Would you please look at Government Exhibit 28? Is that

also you?

A Yes.

Q Where was that photo taken?

A In the second home.

Q And that's the second home of Hope Transition Center?

A Yes.

Q And Government Exhibit 29, is that also you?

A Yes.

Q And who is with you in that photo?

A Younger.

Q Do you know that person's name?

A Yes.

Q What is his name?

A Khachai.

Q And where was that photo taken?

A At a beach -- at an ocean.

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Q And was that taken during the time you were living at

Hope Transition Center?

A Yes.

Q Government Exhibit 30, please. Is that you?

A Yes.

Q What is going on in this photo?

A Baptism.

Q And who is baptizing you?

A The pastor.

Q And was this -- did this baptism happen while you were

living at Hope Transition Center?

A Yes.

Q Do you recognize anyone else in this photo?

A Yes.

Q Can you tell us who?

A Daniel.

Q And can you touch the screen -- if you touch it, it will

make a mark where Daniel is, please?

A (Complies.)

Q Do you know the names of anyone else in this photo?

A I don't recall.

Q And Government Exhibit 31, please. Is that you?

A Yes.

Q And is that Christmastime?

A Yes.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 467

Q Who are the presents from that you are holding?

A It's from Daniel.

Q And do you know where this photo was taken?

A Perhaps it was the second -- the second home.

Q So you mentioned the first and second home of Hope

Transition Center. How many homes did you live at?

A Three.

Q I am going to ask you to take a look at Government

Exhibit 271, please. Do you recognize that?

A Yes.

Q And is that one of the homes of Hope Transition Center?

A The first house.

Q And Government Exhibit 272, please. Do you recognize

that one?

A Yes.

Q Which location is that?

A The second home.

Q And Government Exhibit 139, please. What about that

one?

A The third house.

Q And have you described that house as being near Sansam

Kosal?

A Yes.

Q Is that spelled S-A-N-S-A-M, K-O-S-A-L?

A Yes.

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Q You said you lived at all three of these locations?

A Yes.

Q And were you living at the third location when Daniel

Johnson was arrested?

A Yes.

Q What kinds of things did you do when you were living at

Hope Transition Center?

A At that time, after the problem occurred?

Q No, let's go back to when you first moved there. So

before the problem occurred, what kinds of things did you do

every day?

A I don't remember.

Q Did you go to school, for example?

A Yes.

Q Did you do chores around the house?

A Yes.

Q What kinds of things did you do for fun with the other

boys?

A Playing, run around, and we would climb up a tree to

pick mangoes and eat.

Q Did people from the United States ever visit Hope

Transition Center?

A Yes.

Q And was that a fun time?

A Fun.

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Q Now, CC X, I want to ask you about the time period

between August 2012 and December 2013. Were you living at

Hope Transition Center during that time?

A Yes.

Q And was that at the third location?

A Yes.

Q Now, I would like to ask you about some things that

happened there that you told the FBI about, okay?

A Yes.

Q Did you ever spend time in Daniel Johnson's bedroom when

you were at that third location?

A Yes.

Q What kinds of things did you do in his bedroom?

A Perhaps, I forgot.

Q Well, you don't have to tell me everything you did in

his bedroom. Can you give me an example? Did you ever watch

TV in his bedroom?

A Have.

Q Did you ever hang out with other boys in his bedroom?

A Yes.

Q And who are some of those other boys?

A I don't remember.

Q Did you ever give Daniel Johnson a massage in his

bedroom?

A Yes.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

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Q And where would Daniel be when you gave him that

massage?

A In the bedroom.

Q And where in the bedroom would he be? Would he be

standing up or sitting down somewhere?

A Sleeping.

Q Would he be on a bed?

A Yes.

Q And what would Daniel wear when you gave him a massage?

A He's wearing underwear or boxer or brief.

Q Was he wearing anything else?

A No.

Q And what part of Daniel's body did you massage?

A The whole entire body, all of it.

Q Did you ever touch Daniel Johnson's penis?

A Have.

Q Can you tell me about that?

A At that time he asked me for a massage.

Q Did he ask you to touch his penis?

A Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: Judge, I am sorry to interrupt, but

can we ask the witness to speak into the microphone again?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: Thank you.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Thank you, CC X. So you said that

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

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Daniel asked you to touch his penis; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q What part of your body did he ask you to touch his penis

with?

A Hand.

Q And was the skin of your hand on the skin of his penis?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; leading.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Did Daniel Johnson ever ejaculate when

you did that?

A Came.

Q So Daniel Johnson came?

A Yes.

Q Did you ever touch Daniel Johnson's penis with another

part of your body?

A Repeat, please.

Q Did you ever touch Daniel Johnson's penis with another

part of your body?

A Not yet.

Q Did that happen later, though?

A Yes.

Q Is that still at the third location?

A Yes.

Q Can you tell us about that?

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 472

A Yes.

Q How did that happen?

A At that time he asked me to go to the room.

Q And then what happened?

A And he asked for a massage.

Q What happened next?

A Afterward he asked -- I don't -- I don't remember.

Q So after he asked you to give him a massage, can you

remember what happened next?

A I don't remember; however, I already told you once

already.

Q You did, and I am sorry. I know this is hard to talk

about it. But we need you to explain it one last time here

in this courtroom. Can you do that for us?

A Sometime I forgot. Can you just read the words, what I

said already? You know, my transcript.

Q We can't, CC X. We need you to tell us here now.

THE COURT: Counsel, I don't mean to intervene, but

if you ask a more direct question like, Did you have oral sex

with Mr. Johnson, we might get an answer.

THE WITNESS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

MS. BRITSCH: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Did Daniel Johnson ever put his penis

in your mouth?

A Did.

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Page 473

Q And did you ever put your penis in Daniel Johnson's

mouth?

A No.

Q When he put his penis in your mouth, did he ejaculate?

A Came.

Q Did Daniel Johnson ever put his penis into your butt?

A Did.

Q How did that feel when he did that?

A Pain.

Q Did Daniel Johnson put anything on his penis before he

put his penis into your butt?

A Put.

Q And what did he put on his penis?

A It's like Allay.

Q Is that a brand of lotion?

A Yes.

Q And did his penis penetrate your anus?

A Penetrated.

Q And about how many times did this happen?

A Many.

Q And how many times did Daniel Johnson put his penis in

your mouth?

A Many times.

Q Did all of this happen in Daniel Johnson's bedroom at

the third location?

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Page 474

A Yes.

Q Did Daniel ever give you money after he did these things

to you?

A Did.

Q And did he ever give you gifts after he did these things

to you?

A Did.

Q What kinds of gifts did he give you?

A Like iPad, iPort.

Q And do you mean iPod?

A Yes, iPod.

Q So Daniel Johnson gave you an iPod?

A Yes.

Q Was anyone else around when Daniel Johnson did these

things to you?

A No.

Q How did you feel when these things happened to you?

A Sometimes very difficult.

Q So you felt difficult?

A Difficult.

Q Before Daniel was arrested, did you ever tell anyone

what Daniel was doing to you?

A No.

Q Why not?

A Ashamed.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 475

Q Any other reasons?

A Nothing except for shame.

Q Did Daniel Johnson ever apologize when he did these

things to you?

A Did.

Q What did he say to you?

A He apologized.

Q Do you remember the words he used?

A Yes.

Q What were those words?

A "I am sorry."

Q Now, CC X, I know you have talked to a lot of people

since Daniel's arrest. And you didn't always tell them

everything you told us today?

A Yes.

Q When you were first asked about sexual abuse by Daniel

Johnson, did you tell the Cambodian National Police

everything that he did to you?

A No. However, yes, but I did tell them that he touched

my sex organ.

Q And why didn't you tell them about the other things he

had done to you?

A Because I am embarrassed.

Q I am going to ask you to take a look at some more

photos, if that's okay.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 476

A Yes.

MS. BRITSCH: And, Your Honor, these are photos from

the day of the arrest. They are not any of the photos that

the defense has lodged an objection to, so I believe they can

be published.

MR. WEINERMAN: I don't think we have one, but I am

not sure which photos we're going to see. So if I have one,

I will let you know.

MS. BRITSCH: Government Exhibit 88, please.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Do you recognize this photo, CC X?

A Yes.

Q And do you see yourself in that photo?

A Yes.

Q Can you put a mark on the screen where you are sitting,

please?

A JUROR: Are we supposed to see this?

THE COURT: Not quite yet.

MR. WEINERMAN: No objections.

THE COURT: It will be published.

(EXHIBIT 88 RECEIVED.)

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Do you remember when this photo was

taken, CC X?

A When the problem happened.

Q And when you say the problem, are you referring to

Daniel Johnson's arrest?

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 477

A Yes.

Q And where was this photo taken?

A On top of the house, at the house.

Q And do you remember if this photo was taken before or

after you talked to the Cambodian National Police?

A Before.

MS. BRITSCH: Government Exhibit 106, please.

MR. WEINERMAN: No objection.

THE COURT: Received.

(EXHIBIT 106 RECEIVED.)

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Do you recognize this photo?

A Yes.

Q And who is that?

A Me.

Q Is that the same day of the arrest?

A Yes.

Q And do you remember what is going on in this photo?

A This is a time when they asked us questions.

MS. BRITSCH: Government Exhibit 103, please.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Do you recognize this photo, CC X?

A Yes.

Q And who is this in photo?

A There's police and I.

Q Is that you with the your head in your hand?

MS. BRITSCH: Your Honor, I haven't heard an

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 478

objection from defense. May I publish these?

MR. WEINERMAN: I am sorry. No objection.

THE COURT: It will be published.

(EXHIBIT 103 RECEIVED.)

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Sorry, CC X. Is that you with your

head in your hand?

A Yes.

Q And who are the people around you?

A There are police.

Q And that's the day of the arrest?

A Yes.

MS. BRITSCH: Government Exhibit 112, please.

MR. WEINERMAN: No objection.

THE COURT: It will be received.

(EXHIBIT 112 RECEIVED.)

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Is that you in this photo?

A Yes.

Q Are you the taller one?

A Yes.

Q And who is that with you?

A Luka.

Q Do you remember when this photo was taken?

A Don't remember. However, perhaps it's around the time

of the problem.

Q Do you know where the photo was taken?

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 479

A At the third house.

MS. BRITSCH: And Government Exhibit 113, please. I

don't hear an objection from the defense. May we publish?

MR. WEINERMAN: I have no objection.

THE COURT: It will be received.

(EXHIBIT 113 RECEIVED.)

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Is this photo taken in the same place

as the previous photo, CC X?

A Yes.

Q And do you know when this photo was taken?

A When there was the incident.

Q And is the incident the arrest of Daniel Johnson?

A Yes.

Q Do you remember what time of day it was when this photo

was taken?

A Night.

Q And who are the three people in that photo?

A It's I, LS X and Nick.

Q And is the person towards the front of the photo, do you

know who that is?

A It is the woman police.

Q And do you remember what was happening when this photo

was taken?

A I don't know.

Q Now, you said that you told the Cambodian National

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DEBORAH COOK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 480

Police that Daniel Johnson touched your sex organ; is that

correct?

A Yes.

Q And was that the day of the arrest that you told them

that?

A Yes. However, in the morning.

Q Did you later say that Daniel Johnson had never touched

you?

A Yes.

Q Was that the truth or a lie?

A A lie.

Q And why did you tell that lie at that time?

A Because I don't want them to ask me too many questions.

Q Was there any other reason you said Daniel didn't touch

you at that time?

A Because if I say that, they are going to ask me the same

thing over and over and over again.

Q And did you tell that lie after you visited Daniel

Johnson in jail?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; assumes facts not in

evidence, whether he visited him in the first place.

THE COURT: Overruled. We can establish that with a

follow-up question.

THE WITNESS: True.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: So you visited Daniel Johnson in jail

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 481

in Cambodia; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And how did he look in jail?

A When he was in jail?

Q Yes.

A Skinny.

Q And how did he act when you visited him?

A Gentle.

Q Did he apologize to you?

A Asked.

Q I am sorry, I don't understand your answer. Did he

apologize to you, when you saw him in jail?

A Can you please repeat it?

Q When you visited Daniel Johnson in jail, did he ever

tell you, I am sorry?

A Yes. Did.

Q And around this time, were you communicating with Daniel

Johnson on Facebook?

A No, but I did spoke with him on the telephone.

Q Did you ever talk to Daniel Johnson on Facebook?

A I don't know.

Q If I showed you some Facebook messages with Daniel

Johnson, would that help your memory as to whether you

communicated with him on Facebook yes?

A Yes.

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DEBORAH COOK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 482

MS. BRITSCH: Your Honor, may I show the witness

what's been marked for identification as Government's

Exhibit 274?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Can you see that on your screen, CC X?

CC X, if you will read it silently to yourself, and then let

me know if that refreshes your memory as to ever speaking on

Facebook with Daniel Johnson?

THE WITNESS: Can you read it?

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: I can't read it to you now, CC X.

MS. BRITSCH: But may the interpreter interpret it

for him?

THE COURT: Yes, please. Translate the English,

please.

(Interpreter Translating Facebook posts.)

THE WITNESS: Are you talking about Facebook then?

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: I am sorry. I may have confused you by

using the words "spoke on Facebook".

A I did not create this Facebook, because I was young.

Perhaps Daniel created it for me.

Q So did Daniel Johnson create you a Facebook account?

A Yes.

Q And was that in the name CC XXXXXXXXX?

A Yes.

Q And was that when you were living at Hope Transition

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 483

Center?

A Yes.

Q And do you recognize the Facebook in front of you as the

account, CC XXXXXXXXX?

A Yes.

Q And do you recognize the messages between CC XXXXXXXXX

and Daniel Johnson in that exhibit?

A Yes.

MS. BRITSCH: Your Honor, at this time I would move

to admit Government Exhibit 274.

(EXHIBIT 274 OFFERED.)

THE COURT: Any objection? It will be received.

MR. WEINERMAN: No, Judge, other than that, no.

(EXHIBIT 274 RECEIVED.)

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Can we please turn to page 2 of that

exhibit.

MS. BRITSCH: And, Your Honor, I am not sure if this

has been published, but if not, may we publish it, please?

THE COURT: It will be published. And I'm sorry,

for the court reporter if it was over objection, it will be

received.

COURT REPORTER: Thank you, Judge.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: On page 2 of this exhibit, CC X, do you

see the message that says, Author, Daniel Johnson, Miss you

my son. Hope you are doing okay.

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DEBORAH COOK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 484

A Yes.

Q And is that message dated December 18, 2013?

A Yes.

Q And above that message, do you see where there's a photo

of a moto?

A Yes.

Q Do you see the message that is authored by Daniel

Johnson that says, You want moto like this, question mark?

A Yes.

Q Is that message dated December 3rd, 2013?

A I see.

Q Can we please turn to the next page of this exhibit? Do

you see the message at the top that is authored by Daniel

Johnson that says, Hope to see you soon. If I don't have

problem here next week, I will go to USA and hope 4 or

5 months can come back. Pray for that.

A Yes.

Q Is that dated January 6, 2014?

A Yes.

Q Do you see the next message authored by Daniel Johnson?

MR. WEINERMAN: Could I ask a quick question in aid

of objection?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: Mr. CC X, do you recall receiving

any of the these messages?

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 485

THE WITNESS: Remember.

MR. WEINERMAN: You remember receiving those

messages?

THE WITNESS: Yes. But I don't know on what day.

MR. WEINERMAN: Thank you.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: But do you see the date there,

January 6, 2014?

THE COURT: The exhibit is in evidence. The date is

there. It speaks for itself. I don't need him to confirm

every --

MS. BRITSCH: Certainly, Your Honor.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: That's okay, CC X. I will move on.

Do you see the next message from Daniel Johnson that

says, I know they lie to you, I am sorry they do that to you.

Hope to see you soon. Love you and miss you.

A I see.

Q And I am going to direct your attention to the bottom,

the second-to-last message. It's authored by Daniel Johnson

and says, Miss you very much. Your mom says she wants you to

go back to the court with a different lawyer and answer

again. After you go back, you should be free. Then send me

your number, okay. Love you son.

A I see.

Q And then if we can turn to the next page, please.

MR. WEINERMAN: Can I ask another question in aid of

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DEBORAH COOK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 486

objection?

THE COURT: You may.

MR. WEINERMAN: This last message that was just read

to you by the interpreter, do you remember receiving it on

January 19, 2014?

THE WITNESS: Did.

MR. WEINERMAN: Thank you.

THE WITNESS: But --

THE COURT: We have not -- I am sorry, go ahead.

THE WITNESS: But I didn't play.

MR. WEINERMAN: Say that again. I didn't hear the

interpreter.

THE WITNESS: I did not play. I mean, I did not

respond back.

MR. WEINERMAN: You received it, but you didn't

reply?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: Thank you.

THE COURT: It's 11:00. I think the court reporter

and the translator would like a break. So folks, take a

brief morning break for 10 or 15 minutes.

(JURY OUT.)

(Brief recess taken from 10:52 a.m.

to 11:12 a.m.)

(JURY IN.)

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 487

THE COURT: Please be seated. Counsel, if you will

continue.

MS. BRITSCH: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Just a few more questions from me,

CC X.

A Yes.

Q Can you please take a look at page 8 of Government's

Exhibit 274, please.

A The pages are not marked here.

Q I apologize. It's the page that looks like this, CC X

(indicating).

MS. BRITSCH: Has it been published, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Over objection, I am receiving it.

Q BY MS. BRITSCH: Do you see that photo, CC X?

A See.

Q If you please turn to page 12, and it will show up on

that screen for you to the left. And page 13, please, and

page 14, please.

Do you see the message below the photo on page 14

that says, Miss you son so much. I love you.

A See.

Q Now, CC X, after Daniel Johnson was arrested, did you

ever talk to Calvey and Lindsay Alderson about what he had

done to you?

A Yes.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 488

Q What did you tell them Daniel Johnson had done to you?

A Perhaps, I forgot.

Q You forgot what you told them?

A Yes. Because it's been a long time.

Q I understand. Did they take a video of what you told

them?

A Perhaps.

Q And are Calvey and Lindsay Alderson Americans who had

visited the orphanage?

A Yes, they are the ones who support me.

Q They are your sponsors?

A Yes.

Q Did you later talk to a woman from the FBI that was

named Martha?

A Talking to in Prey Veng or here?

Q In Prey Veng?

A Yes.

Q Do you remember that interview?

A Yes.

Q And do you remember telling Martha that Daniel had

touched your penis?

A Yes.

Q Did you tell Martha about the other things Daniel had

done to you?

A No.

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CROSS EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 489

Q Why not?

A Because shame.

Q And did you later speak to a woman from the FBI who is

named Janetta, Janetta in Phnom Penh?

A I remember.

Q Did you tell Janetta about the things Daniel Johnson had

done to you?

A Did.

Q And did you tell her about all of the things he did to

you, the things you told us today?

A Did.

Q And was that last year, in March 2017?

A Yes.

MS. BRITSCH: Thank you, CC X. No further

questions, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I am going to have Mr. Johnson's

attorneys ask you some questions, now.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q Is it all right if I call you CC X?

A Yes.

Q So CC X, you were with Mr. Johnson for approximately

four years before he was arrested?

A Yes.

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CROSS EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 490

Q And he did much to help you during that time?

A Yes.

Q He sent you to school?

A Yes.

Q And in Cambodia school is not free, correct?

A Free.

Q So you don't have to pay teachers to attend school in

Cambodia?

A Yes. Because it's an organization, they don't take

money.

Q So you don't have to pay the teachers?

A Yes.

Q But Daniel made sure you went to school?

A Yes.

Q And did Daniel help you learn English?

A Yes, I did went to school, also, at the big school

learning English.

Q And did Daniel help your family with problems, did he?

A He did.

Q Your mother had a medical problem?

A Yes.

Q When she was pregnant?

A Yes.

Q Daniel took her to the hospital?

A Yes.

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CROSS EXAMINATION - CC XXXXXX

Page 491

Q And did Daniel help your mother start a farm?

A I don't know.

Q A farm on her property in Prey Veng?

A Don't know.

Q Did Daniel's ministry help build a well on your mother's

property?

A Yes.

Q You have seen the well?

A Where? What well? Where at?

Q The well on your mother's property?

A Oh, yes. Yes.

Q Did you help build that?

A I don't know.

Q You don't remember one way or the other whether you

helped build the well?

A Maybe not.

Q Did Daniel encourage you to go to the university, to

study long enough so you could be admitted to a university in

Cambodia?

A Yes.

Q I would like to show you Defendant's Exhibit 602.

MR. WEINERMAN: This has already been admitted so it

can be published.

THE COURT: It can be published, yes.

Q BY MR. WEINERMAN: Do you recognize that as the first

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place you lived?

A Yes.

Q That was -- was there a man living there for

approximately three years named Pilot?

A No, not three years.

Q Was there a man named Pilot living there part of the

time you lived there?

A Yes.

Q And he lived there with his wife?

A Yes.

Q And Pilot and his wife took care of the kids who lived

there?

A Yes.

Q And Daniel Johnson lived there as well, during that

time?

A Yes.

Q And then one day Pilot and his wife left?

A Yes.

Q And they were no longer taking care of the kids?

A Yes.

Q And is that when Daniel Johnson started taking care of

the kids?

A Yes.

Q And this location is also where the Coffee House

Ministry took place?

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A Yes.

Q And did you participate in the Coffee House Ministry?

A Yes, participated.

Q And in things like -- I am sorry. I am sorry.

A It was a very good thing, they are helping kids, you

know, kids that has no food.

Q So kids from the city, Phnom Penh?

A Yes.

Q They had no food, and they would -- and they would come

to the Coffee House Ministry to be fed?

A Yes.

Q I want to show you a few more pictures, Exhibit 602,

page 5. Does that look like the inside of the building of

the first house?

A Yes.

Q And would you -- you are not in this photograph,

correct?

A Yes.

Q But you participated in activities like studying and

Bible study where you would sit around the table and talk?

A Not on that table. Most of the time it's on the floor.

Q But what would they do on the table?

A I think it's for regular education, and drawing and

things like that.

Q Did you ever do that?

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A No, because I was young.

Q So how about Exhibit 602, page 4, is that one of the

classrooms at the Coffee House Ministry?

A At that time, but I have not been there yet.

Q Have you ever been in this room before?

A No.

Q Next, would be 602, page 16. Is this the courtyard of

the Coffee House Ministry building?

A Yes.

Q And this is a typical event that Daniel's ministry would

run at the Coffee House Ministry?

A Yes.

Q People are singing?

A Yes.

Q And there's some -- the upper part of the photograph,

there's some musicians, at least one musician, playing the

guitar?

A Yes, I see.

Q And you have attended events like this?

A Yes, I have.

Q Exhibit 602, page 14, is this one of the programs where

they fed kids from the city?

A Yes.

Q And you have attended events like that?

A Yes.

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Page 495

Q Exhibit 602, page 13, these are people cooking food for

the kids?

A Yes.

Q Did you get to eat the food, as well?

A I did.

Q Was the food good?

A Yes.

Q Did you ever cook?

A No.

Q All right. Not much different than America, I guess.

A Yes.

Q Exhibit 116, page 84 --

COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, give me that number

again.

Q BY MR. WEINERMAN: I'm sorry, I messed up that number.

I'm sorry. It's Exhibit 611, page 84, do you recognize this

as a well that Daniel helped build somewhere in Cambodia?

A Correct, but I was not there at that time.

Q You were there for some of the wells, but not all of the

wells?

A Yes.

Q Exhibit 616, page 52, do you recognize this church --

it's not up yet, sorry. So while we're putting that up, you

come from Prey Veng, correct?

A Yes.

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Q And that's in the countryside?

A Yes.

Q About two to three hours away from Phnom Penh?

A If you are driving, it's two hours, or an hour and a

half.

Q So is it true that Daniel's ministry built a number of

things in Prey Veng?

A Yes.

Q They built a church?

A Yes.

Q Did you help with any of the work?

A Helped.

Q Did you help with any of the chores in building the

church?

A Yes.

Q Showing you the exhibit, does that look like the church?

A This is the church, but the other side, no.

Q I am sorry. The last part?

A The other side, no.

Q What do you mean by the other side?

A I try and say there's -- this side is one side, and

there's another side to the right side of it.

Q That's not in the photograph, the one in the right side?

A Yes.

Q This is the church in Prey Veng that you helped build?

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A Yes.

Q Exhibit 616, page 56, do you recognize this as the

church and the church grounds?

A Yes.

Q And finally, Exhibit 615, page 48. And is that another

view of the church?

A Yes.

Q And did you go to services at the church?

A I did.

Q With other kids from Hope Transition Center?

A Yes.

Q Were -- we're getting back to when you were living at

Hope Transition Center, at all three locations --

A Yes.

Q -- and there were rules?

A Yes.

Q And if kids broke the rules, they would be punished?

A Yes.

Q And Daniel was strict?

A Yes.

Q And he sometimes would hit kids who broke the rules?

A When the kid does wrong, usually he slapped them in the

face, but the big ones only.

Q Did that ever happen to you?

A I have stand and watched the wall.

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Page 498

Q I am sorry. Would the interpreter repeat the answer?

THE INTERPRETER: "I have stand and watched the

wall."

Q BY MR. WEINERMAN: So you had to stand in the corner for

a few minutes if you broke the rules?

A Half an hour, or 20 minutes.

Q And you had to stand still?

A Yes.

Q Did Daniel ever do anything more than make you stand in

the corner?

A No. No, because I was young.

Q When Daniel was arrested in 2013, you were 16 years old?

A Around maybe around 15 or 16 years old.

Q So I want to ask you some questions now about the day

Daniel was arrested.

A Yes.

Q And that's the same day you were interviewed by the

Cambodian police?

A Yes.

Q So the police came to Hope Transition Center in the

morning?

A Yes.

Q And they arrested Daniel and took him away?

A Yes.

Q And then if we could publish Government Exhibit 88, and

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Page 499

this was you and other boys waiting to be questioned by the

police?

A Yes.

Q And there's a man standing in the back watching you and

the others?

A Yes.

Q And is that someone from the Cambodian police?

A Perhaps.

Q Well, he was someone from the authorities, correct?

A Yes.

Q He was telling you and the other boys who are sitting

that they had to wait?

A Maybe.

Q Did this man in the back tell you that you had to sit

there and wait?

A Don't know.

Q Were you free to get up and walk away, and go wherever

you wanted to?

A No.

Q You had to sit there and wait, correct?

A Yes.

Q Do you know why this man put so many of you in what

looks like a fairly small sitting area?

A I don't know.

Q You don't know, or you don't remember?

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Page 500

A Don't remember.

Q Are you scared of the Cambodian police?

A Scared.

Q They have a bad reputation, don't they?

A Yeah. They have bad attitude, in general. No good.

Q Aggressive?

A Yes.

Q Mean?

A Yes.

Q Dishonest?

A Not honest.

Q Not honest?

A Yes.

Q You can get in trouble if you don't do what they want

you to do, correct?

A Correct.

Q And you can get into trouble if you don't say what they

want you to say?

A Yes.

Q So on the day Daniel was arrested you made a statement

to the police?

A Yes.

Q And they asked you questions about Daniel?

A Yes.

Q And you were scared?

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Page 501

A Yes.

Q And you told them that Daniel touched you?

A Yes.

Q And you believed that is what they wanted you to say?

A Yes.

Q That --

A But --

Q But -- go ahead.

A Yes. I was scared so I said -- I told a lie, because I

don't want to have problems, you know, messy problems.

Q So you also said later, when you were talking to the FBI

about a year later, that you were in a panic because of the

police being there?

A Fear.

MR. WEINERMAN: Could we publish Government

Exhibit 106, please.

Q BY MR. WEINERMAN: So this is a photograph of you being

questioned?

A Yes.

Q And all the other people who are questioning you are off

to the side, not in the photograph?

A Yes.

Q You look tired?

A Yes.

Q You looked uncomfortable there?

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Page 502

A Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: Could we look at Government

Exhibit 103.

Q BY MR. WEINERMAN: That is another photograph of you

being questioned by the police?

A Yes.

Q Could you touch the screen where you are sitting?

A (Complies.)

Q So there were three people talking to you, or at least

listening to you?

A Listening and asking, and ask again and again and again

and again, over and over again.

Q Making you feel uncomfortable?

A Yes.

Q And afraid?

A Yes.

Q And the man who is actually sitting down, facing you, do

you know who that is?

A Perhaps it's a police agent, but I don't know who he is.

Q Was he asking you a lot of questions?

A Many.

Q Many?

A But --

Q But --

A Yeah. The words -- the questioning words is the same

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Page 503

words over and over and over and over again.

Q So next I would like to ask you about a conversation

that you had with an investigator for Daniel Johnson. Do you

remember talking to an investigator for Daniel Johnson in

Cambodia two different times?

A Yes.

Q So let me, before I get to the dates, you talked to the

Cambodian National Police on the day Daniel was arrested?

A Yes.

Q And then you talked to FBI Martha on November 9, 2014,

about what Daniel had done to you?

A Yes.

Q And you told her that Daniel Johnson touched you?

A Yes. Yes.

Q And you gave FBI Martha that statement at the office of

the Cambodian National Police?

A Yes.

Q And there were some people there listening or watching

from the Cambodian National Police?

A Yes, perhaps watching the video.

Q And everything you said was being recorded on the video?

A Yes.

Q And you were concerned that if you told FBI Martha

different than what you told the Cambodian police, you could

get into trouble?

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A Yes.

Q And you could get into trouble with the Cambodian

police?

A Yes.

Q So now I want to talk about your meeting with the

investigator Martine?

A Yes.

Q And that was after you talked to the Cambodian National

Police, right?

A Yes.

Q And after you talked to FBI Martha at the Cambodian

National Police office in Phnom Penh?

A Yes.

Q And you talked to Martine around June of 2015, or

approximately six, seven months after you talked to FBI

Martha?

A Please repeat.

Q I was afraid you were going to ask that. I will ask it

in smaller shots.

So you talked to Martine, around June 18, 2015,

correct?

A Don't remember, but, yes, I did get to speak to --

Q Let me ask you this way: You talked to Martine about

six months after you talked to FBI Martha?

A Yes.

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Page 505

Q And you talked to him in your home town in Prey Veng?

A Yes, at the province.

Q And it was near the church?

A Who?

Q When you talked to Martine, did you talk to him in Prey

Veng near the church?

A Who's Martine?

Q Let me back up. I will get to that. Martine is the

person, the investigator, who represents Daniel Johnson.

A Oh.

Q Remember him?

A Maybe I remember.

MR. WEINERMAN: I can't hear, I am sorry.

THE INTERPRETER: "Maybe I remember."

Q BY MR. WEINERMAN: He was tall?

A Old.

Q By your standards, probably, yes.

A Yes.

Q Skinny?

A Yes.

Q And your mother was close by when you talked to Martine?

A No. No.

Q She wasn't in the vicinity?

A No.

Q But he told you that you didn't have to talk to him if

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Page 506

you didn't want to?

A Yes.

Q And that you could leave at any time?

A Yes.

Q But you agreed to talk to him?

A Yes.

Q And was it a friendly atmosphere?

A Yes.

Q You weren't scared like you were when you talked to the

Cambodian police?

A Yes.

Q And he asked you about what happened when you talked to

the Cambodian police on the day Daniel was arrested?

A Yes.

Q And you told Martine that you felt pressured to talk to

the Cambodian police.

A Yes.

Q And you felt like you had no choice, you had to talk to

them?

A Yes. Yes.

Q And you told Martine you didn't tell the truth?

A Yes.

Q And you just told them what you believed they wanted to

hear?

A Yes.

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Page 507

THE WITNESS: May I go to the bathroom, please?

THE COURT: Yes. I think we're right at noon, so we

will go ahead and break for the next hour and 15 minutes, and

we will resume at that time. Thank you.

Folks, one more thing, I do want to make sure you

jurors do not look up any -- don't look up newspaper articles

locally. There is an article I noticed in one of the media

publications and I want to make sure you are not looking at

that. So do not read any local newspaper websites or local

papers. Thank you.

(JURY OUT.)

(Proceedings adjourned at

11:59 a.m.)

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Page 508

STATE OF OREGON )

)ss

COUNTY OF YAMHILL)

I, Deborah L. Cook, RPR, Certified Shorthand

Reporter in and for the State of Oregon, hereby certify that

at said time and place I reported in stenotype all testimony

adduced and other oral proceedings had in the foregoing

hearing; that thereafter my notes were transcribed by

computer-aided transcription by me personally; and that the

foregoing transcript contains a full, true and correct record

of such testimony adduced and other oral proceedings had, and

of the whole thereof.

Witness my hand and seal at Dundee, Oregon, this

4th day of May, 2018.

/s/ Deborah L. Cook

__________________________

DEBORAH L. COOK, RPR

Certified Shorthand Reporter

OREGON CSR #04-0389

CALIFORNIA CSR #12886

WASHINGTON CSR #2992

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