205

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

DISTRICT OF OREGON

EUGENE DIVISION

THE HON. MICHAEL J. McSHANE, JUDGE PRESIDING

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )

)

Government, )

)

v. ) No. 6:14-cr-00482-MC-1

)

DANIEL STEPHEN JOHNSON, )

 )

Defendant. )

___________________________________)

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

EUGENE, OREGON

WEDNESDAY, MAY 2, 2018

VOLUME 2B - AFTERNOON SESSION

PAGES 205 - 319

 Kristi L. Anderson

 Official Federal Reporter

 United States Courthouse

 405 East Eighth Avenue

 Eugene, Oregon 97401

 (541) 431-4112

 Kristi_Anderson@ord.uscourts.gov

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APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

FOR THE GOVERNMENT:

Jeffrey S. Sweet

United States Attorney's Office

405 E. Eighth Avenue, Suite 2400

Eugene, OR 97401

541-465-6771

Fax: 541-465-6917

Email: jeff.sweet@usdoj.gov

Lauren E. Britsch

U.S. Department of Justice

Criminal Division

1400 New York Ave NW, 6th Floor

Washington, DC 20530

202-514-2220

Fax: 202-514-1793

Email: lauren.britsch@usdoj.gov

Ravi Sinha

United States Attorney's Office

1000 SW Third Ave, Suite 600

Portland, OR 97204

503-727-1014

Fax: 503-727-1117

Email: ravi.sinha@usdoj.gov

FOR THE DEFENDANT:

Craig E. Weinerman

Office of the Federal Public Defender

859 Willamette Street, Suite 200

Eugene, OR 97401

541-465-6937

Fax: 541-465-6975

Email: craig_weinerman@fd.org

Lisa A. Maxfield

Pacific Northwest Law LLP

1255 NW Ninth Avenue, No. 11

Portland, OR 97209

(503) 222-2661

Fax: (503) 222-2864

Email: lamaxfield@pacificnwlaw.com

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GENERAL INDEX

WITNESS INDEX DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

Suzanna Brand 216 238 262

LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX 266 297 316

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PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY, MAY 2, 2018

THE COURT: You don't have to stand. Who is our

next witness?

MR. SWEET: The next witness is Suzy Brand, Your

Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. We are ready for the jury.

All right. We'll bring them in.

MR. SWEET: Actually, Your Honor, can I have 35

seconds to clean up before we bring the jury in, please?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: And Judge, I may want to make some

preemptive objections. I don't know exactly where counsel

is going with her, but I am looking at her 302 and there

seems to be a number of things that the government asks her

to testify to that would be objectionable.

So let me -- well, like many witnesses, she

apparently can testify that there was a disclosure of sexual

abuse by BT XXXXXXX. We would object to that on hearsay.

She also had numerous phone conversations with PE

XXXXXX. We would also object to that as hearsay.

She kind of characterizes things she sees

without -- going beyond describing what she saw. She kind

of reads into it what it is. So let me give you an example

here.

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She thought it was weird that one evening she saw

Daniel sleeping in a mosquito net with two of the boys. She

thought it was weird. We would object to that

characterization.

She apparently is going to testify that Daniel

Johnson tried to separate the English-speaking boys from the

Brands. That seems to me it calls for speculation how she

would know that, so we object to that.

I have a few others, so bear with me, please.

She apparently is going to testify that

Mr. Johnson wanted nothing to do with God or the ministry.

We object to that on relevancy and 403 grounds, and calling

for a conclusion and calling for speculation.

That he didn't participate in Bible stories,

church songs, and didn't go to church. We would object to

that.

And then she is also -- in this 302, talks about

things she has heard about Mr. Johnson from various sources,

not even alleged victims in the case. Her cousin, Melody.

She heard rumors that Johnson misappropriated

money. It seems to me that that's objectionable as being

speculative, calling for a conclusion, lack of personal

knowledge.

She heard that LT XXXXXXX went back to live with

his mom. That would seem to be hearsay.

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She heard that LT XXXXXXX was sexually abused by

Johnson. That seems to be also hearsay, lack of firsthand

knowledge.

She apparently is willing to say that LS XXXXX was

Johnson's favorite boy and got everything he wanted. You

know, again, that calls for conclusion and speculation.

And she is going to get into this, and I think

Ms. Comstock got into this, in that how she thought it was

strange that Daniel would sometimes -- Daniel Johnson, I'm

sorry -- would sometimes walk around with just a very thin

towel around his waist. We just don't think that that's

relevant.

So those are our preliminary objections to the

testimony.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Sweet, I assume you

are expecting that the hearsay statements and her

speculation based on observations would generally stay out?

MR. SWEET: Yes, Your Honor. And I think I can

respond more or less one by one because there are a couple

that needed clarification.

Statements from PE XXXXXX or BT XXXXXXX, I agree

at this point there's been no impeachment of them so there's

been no prior consistent statement.

The cousin or nephew [sic], Melody, same thing;

nothing from her.

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Rumors regarding Daniel Johnson, we are not

intending on asking about that.

I am not sure how she knows about LT XXXXXXX

leaving. That wasn't something I planned on asking her

about.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. SWEET: Whether she starts to talk about that

as part of something else, I don't -- we can certainly stop

her. But that was wasn't an intended question.

What we do want to get into, Your Honor, is her

specific observation that Mr. Johnson at night was lying

down with both LS X and RT XX under -- basically cradling

each of them. And she can talk about her observation of him

cradling, and she can talk about her observations of other

people cradling; the differences, how she felt about it, and

how she thought they were essentially rewarded the next day

for sleeping with him.

So I think she has more than just, "I thought that

was weird." She has thoughts and opinions based on her

experience as a parent and what she saw. So I would ask

that that come in.

Regarding being kept separate from the boys, you

know, to the extent she can say it appeared that Daniel

Johnson was trying to keep certain boys away from us or from

being alone with us, I think that's -- I think that's

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appropriate, given, I am sure, legitimate concern about

disclosure.

Likewise, to the extent she talks about

Mr. Johnson -- and I think she will -- not really

participating in the ministry, that it was Pastor Sopheak

who was doing these things and Mr. Johnson was not really

part of it, well, part of his defense, Your Honor, is that

he is traveling over there for the ministry, so we think

that is relevant.

LS X. LS X getting gifts. She has a specific

example of when LS X got special treatment for gifts. I

don't think that's speculative.

The towel. She can talk about how many people she

saw wearing towels in Cambodia like Mr. Johnson.

And finally, the money. She did loan -- or, I

think, gave a large amount of money to Mr. Johnson. That is

not the focus of what we are talking about. It certainly

may come up. But to the extent she gave money for a certain

purpose and she believes that money wasn't used for that, I

think that's something that she could go into.

But, again, that's not the focus of what we are

talking about. I expect the defense to potentially raise

it. But she did provide money for certain boys and for

certain projects, and apparently that didn't -- that money

may not have been used for the ministry but for other

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purposes.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. WEINERMAN: So, Judge, I have no issue with

observations; what she sees, hears, thinks -- but what she

thinks about things she sees, what her opinions are, it just

seems to me that that is not relevant and she is not

qualified. At least it's not relevant. And she is not

qualified, in essence, to make these opinions, what's

normal, what's not normal. So we don't think anything

falling in the realm of thoughts and opinions about things

that she sees should come in.

THE COURT: I think to a degree that's true, but

often observations are based on or remembered because there

was something unusual about the situation. And I think she

can testify that she felt -- she remembered an event; for

instance, maybe seeing Mr. Johnson in a towel, as an unusual

set of circumstances that caught her attention and made her

question what was going on.

But going into the deeper speculation about why

things were happening and what's underlying the motivation

for why they are happening, I agree, I would sustain

objections to that kind of speculation. But if something

caught her as odd or unusual, I think she can testify as to

that.

I would sustain objections to statements by BT

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XXXXXXX or PE XXXXXXX regarding prior abuse.

Rumors that she has heard from others would not

come in.

I think her testimony about Mr. Johnson's

participation in the ministry and church activities is

relevant to his motivation for being there, so I would allow

that testimony.

I think her -- the fact that she has given money

to the ministry and she feels wronged by how it was spent, I

would sustain relevance arguments as to that. Her

connection, though, to the ministry, that she supported it

financially when she was there, physically to support it,

she can testify to that.

MR. SWEET: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Have the jury in.

MR. SWEET: I am sorry. Were you asking us to

bring her in first?

THE COURT: Oh, you can bring her in now. That's

fine. Just have her in the courtroom. We will call her up

when the jury gets seated.

MR. SWEET: Okay.

(Jury in.)

THE COURT: All right. Please be seated

everybody.

Next witness, then, for the government.

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MR. SWEET: Thank you, Your Honor.

Your Honor, the government calls Suzy Brand.

THE COURT: Ms. Brand, if you could step up to the

witness stand here to my left. Ms. Brand, go ahead and step

up to the witness chair. Remain standing for just a moment

and raise your right hand.

(The witness was sworn.)

THE COURT: Please have a seat. I am going to

have you please state your full name for us, and spell your

first and last name.

THE WITNESS: My first name is Suzanna,

S-U-Z-A-N-N-A. And my last name is Brand, B-R-A-N-D.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, Ms. Brand.

Mr. Sweet?

MR. SWEET: Thank you, Your Honor.

And Your Honor, just as a preliminary matter,

there are approximately 15 exhibits which I discussed with

defense counsel which they have no objection to, that we are

going to be going through with Ms. Brand. They are 2, 71,

4, 25, 31, 43, 50, 57, 58, 68, 78, 79, 120, 123, -4, and -5.

I believe there's no objection to those being admitted and

published.

THE COURT: If there's no objection, those will be

admitted and published.

THE CLERK: Can you read that again? I am sorry.

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Suzanna Brand - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

MR. SWEET: Yes. I am going to give you a sheet.

THE CLERK: That would work.

MR. SWEET: I just need it back. Thank you,

Ms. Pew.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Brand.

A. Good afternoon.

Q. And Ms. Brand, you stated and spelled your name. And

do you have a nickname that you go by?

A. I do. Call me Suzy.

Q. And I am going to call you Ms. Brand, however, here

today.

Where do you live, please?

A. I live in Clovis, California, right next to Fresno,

California.

Q. And what do you do, please?

A. I am a public school teacher. I teach first grade at

an inner-city school.

Q. About how long have you been doing that?

A. Oh, I have been teaching probably for about eight

years.

Q. And do you have a family?

A. I do. I have a wonderful husband, Phillip, and three

little girls; five, three, and 15 months.

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Suzanna Brand - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

Q. And Ms. Brand, do you know Daniel Johnson?

A. I do.

MR. WEINERMAN: Your Honor, I am sorry to

object -- to interrupt, but can the witness speak a little

closer to the mic?

THE WITNESS: Oh, sure.

THE COURT: So that little button in front of you

is actually a microphone.

THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And do you know Daniel Johnson?

A. I do.

Q. Have you ever been to one of his orphanages in

Cambodia?

A. I have.

Q. Do you know about when it was that you went to

Cambodia?

A. I want to say in 2012.

Q. And about how many years before that did you first meet

Mr. Johnson?

A. I knew him for a couple years before that, maybe around

three. I really got to know him probably the year of 2012.

We became pretty good friends.

Q. And how is it that you first met him?

A. Daniel used to come to our church, and he would bring

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Suzanna Brand - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

videos of what he was doing in Cambodia and pictures of the

kids, and would tell us about all the needs that they had

overseas. And he was pretty much raising support to bring

back to support the kids.

Q. And did that strike a chord with you?

A. Oh, of course.

Q. And so did you become involved with Hope Transitions

Center?

A. I did. We started off just giving support, money.

Whenever he would come down, we would give him checks. And

then whenever he would come down we would take him to

dinner, hang out with him, find out everything there was to

know. He would tell us about the kids.

And he invited us one time. He -- we were at

dinner and he said, "You and Phillip love people very well."

He said, "You guys should come to Cambodia. The kids would

love you guys." So we did.

Q. And were you excited to hear that, that you were

invited?

A. I was. I was.

Q. And so when you said you were giving money, were you

sponsoring children?

A. I did. I sponsored Pong, I sponsored Ravy's. And then

if there was, you know, any bigger needs, like if they

needed to build a well. You know, we always gave wherever

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Suzanna Brand - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

there was a need.

Q. Approximately how much money were you giving a year?

A. Thousands.

Q. Thousands of dollars?

A. (Nodded head.)

Q. And what was your first impression of Mr. Johnson?

A. Well, what a great work that someone is doing, giving

up their life to go overseas to help these vulnerable

children. I wanted to be a part of it.

Q. And does your church play an important role in your

life, Ms. Brand?

A. It does.

Q. So did -- I believe you said you became friends with

Mr. Johnson and closer in 2012; is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you know approximately what time of year you

went to Cambodia in 2012?

A. In the spring. I want to say like April. I want to

say April, actually.

Q. Okay. And who went on your trip, please?

A. My mom, my husband, and a friend of ours. We went to

the same church but we also worked at the same school

together. Her name is Nicole.

Q. So -- and your husband is Phillip Brand; is that right?

A. Yes.

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Suzanna Brand - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

Q. Okay. And Nicole and --

A. My mom.

Q. And your mom?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. I am going to pull up, please, or ask that Exhibit 272

should be pulled up. And it should pop up to your left.

Do you recognize that?

A. There's no picture.

Oh, yes, I do.

Q. Okay. And what is -- what is that photo of, please?

A. That's the boys' home in Phnom Penh.

Q. Okay. And did you go there?

A. I did.

Q. And is that where you stayed?

A. No. We stayed across the street in the girls' home, I

would say like on the second floor.

Q. Did you regularly go to the boys' home?

A. Oh, yeah. Every day.

Q. And I want to show you Exhibit 71, please.

And do you remember this photo, Ms. Brand?

A. I do. That was at the boys' home.

Q. And do you know the boys in this photo?

A. I know all the boys.

Q. If you touch the screen, it should mark when you touch

them. Could you go ahead and identify the people in there,

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

please.

A. Yes. Here is RT XX, and CC X, PE XX, me, Nicole, Tola,

Pong, Wattana.

Q. Okay. And let's take a look at Exhibit 4, please.

And do you recognize those boys?

A. I do.

Q. And who are they, please?

A. ES XXX and LS X.

Q. And 31, please. Do you know that boy?

A. CC X.

Q. And 43, please.

Do you know who that is, please?

A. RT XX.

Q. And 50?

A. PE XX, Tola.

Q. PE XX is on the left, Tola is on the right?

A. Yes.

Q. And 57, please.

There's a name on there, so that helps.

A. LT XXXXXXX.

(Reporter interrupted.)

THE WITNESS: LT XXXXXXX.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Is it LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX?

And does LT XXXXXXX have a brother?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. Yes.

Q. What's his brother's name?

A. RT XX.

Q. And 58, please.

Do you know those boys?

A. Mm-hmm. Pong, SESX.

Q. So Pong is on the left?

A. Yes. SESX is on the right.

Q. And do you also know the name SS XX for Pong?

Does that --

A. We called him Pong, so that's what I know him by.

Q. I understand.

And 68, please.

A. BT XX.

Q. And 78.

And do you know where this photograph was taken?

A. Mm-hmm. At the boys' home in Phnom Penh.

Q. And that looks like -- is that the ground floor?

A. Yes.

Q. And 79, please.

You are in there somewhere. Is that you in the

back?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And 123, please.

Do you know where this photo is from?

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Suzanna Brand - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. Yes. That's in Kampot.

Q. Is that a different province than the city of --

A. It is. It's more in the countryside.

Q. And did you ever go to Kampot?

A. I did.

Q. And 124, please.

Do you recognize that?

A. I think that's the girls' home, actually.

Q. Okay. How about 125?

A. Yes, that is the girls' home.

Q. And 120.

Do you recognize that room?

Sorry. Go ahead and have a drink of water.

A. I think that's at the boys' home.

Q. Do you know whose room that is?

A. I think it's Daniel's.

Q. Have you been in his room?

A. Yes.

Q. If we could go back to 125 for a second, it may not

have popped up for everyone. So let's go back to 125.

Do you recognize that?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Brand, what was your impression of -- well,

what was life like at the orphanage?

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Suzanna Brand - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

What was a typical day?

A. The boys would go to school.

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection, unless a foundation is

laid as to how many times she has been there, what she

observed.

THE COURT: All right. Do you want to ask

foundational questions?

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Ms. Brand, how long were you at the orphanage in

Cambodia?

A. Almost three weeks.

Q. And did you have an opportunity to observe the boys go

about their daily activities?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you see them doing during those daily

activities?

A. When we first got there, the boys, they would go to

school in the morning. And then we actually did a lot of,

like, traveling. And we came there to do a lot of fun stuff

with the kids, so we went to the beach.

And we did ministry. We did ministry in Prey

Veng, we did ministry in Kampot, but we also saved time do a

lot of fun activities with the boys. Like we took them to

the arcade and we took them to the beach.

And we went to -- I don't know. It was like

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Suzanna Brand - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

another beach. So we also had fun with them, too. Took

them out for ice cream.

Q. And so you said Kampot. We talked a bit ago about

Kampot. Was that the place with the pink netting?

A. Yes.

Q. And is Prey Veng, is that a separate location?

A. Yes.

Q. And so you talked about ministry. Do religion and the

church play a large role in the boys' life of the boys at

the orphanage?

A. Yes.

Q. Could you describe that a little bit, please.

A. Yes. The boys absolutely love the Lord. They pray --

they will pray for anybody. They are always telling people

about Jesus. They are friendly. They are kind.

When we were in Phnom Penh one time, on the

ceiling [sic] we had a worship session and all the kids were

singing to God. And it just -- it was from that point on

where I was, like, in. They were singing and, I don't know,

I was like overwhelmed. And I just started to weep. And I

cried and I cried. And I didn't really know why, but I was

just like crying. And I just -- from that point on I said I

will always be a part of these kids' lives. It was just --

it was beautiful. It -- the way they sing.

Yeah, God is very important to them.

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Q. And there are a couple boys we talked about. One of

them was BT XX. What was BT XX's role?

First, do you know BT XX's full name?

A. BT XXXXXXXXXX.

Q. Okay. And do you know his last name?

Do you know the last name BT X?

A. BT X, yes.

Q. And what was BT XXXXXXX's role in the orphanage?

A. He helped Daniel a lot. He took us to the slums. He

took us in the tuk-tuks. He actually played like a

leadership role, I would say. Like Daniel, I think, trusted

him. And so he would, you know, take us around. And he

always rode with us and --

Q. You said a tuk-tuk. What is a tuk-tuk, please?

A. Tuk-tuk is like a little motor, and on the back it's --

there's an attachment. And you can sit in it and they take

you places all around the town.

Q. What -- do you know Pastor Sopheak?

A. I do.

Q. And what was his role, please?

A. Pastor Sopheak is incredible. He takes care of the

kids. He does Bible stories with them. He does worship

with them. He speaks Khmer. And he -- I feel like he did

mostly all of the church stuff, all of the Christian stuff.

Q. And what was Mr. Daniel Johnson, what was his role when

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you were there?

A. Daniel would, like, set everything up. So like he

would say, Oh, we are going to be in this village from this

time to this time. And we would all go there together and

he would, like, book hotels and kind of tell us what we

would do at the places.

Q. Was he involved in the ministry with the boys like

Pastor Sopheak and BT XX?

A. No. Like he never did worship with us or Bible study,

or he didn't -- like when we were praying for sick people in

the village, he wasn't with us. Or when we went into the

slums, BT XX and PE XX took us.

Q. Did that surprise you?

A. Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; relevancy.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. How did Mr. Johnson treat the boys?

A. They had a roof over their head and they had clothes on

their back. When we first got to Phnom Penh, LS X was

curious and he was -- he came over to the girls' home. And

he was wanting to see my husband and talk to him, and just

being a curious little boy.

And Daniel came over and we were talking to him

and, like, doting over him. He was just the most adorable

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thing you have ever seen. And Daniel looked at him and was

really angry and was like, "Why aren't you at school?" And

he, like, took him into the other room and, like, you could

hear him talking to him in Khmer and kind of being harsh

with him. And he spanked him. We didn't see it, but he

spanked him. And he came back into room --

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; lack of personal

knowledge. If she didn't see it --

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. If you didn't see it -- I'm sorry.

If you didn't see it --

A. Well, we heard a spanking. We heard a spanking. And

he came into the room crying, and we gave him a hug.

And Daniel was like, you know, I just got to let

you know -- he was upset because he had skipped school. And

he was like, you know, I just got to let you know right off

the bat, you know, I have to be firm with these boys. And

they need it, and it's good for them. I said okay.

Q. And you said "Khmer." Is Khmer the national language

of Cambodia?

A. Yes.

Q. And how did the -- how did the boys act around

Mr. Johnson?

A. He was the boss. You don't talk back to him. You

don't question him. They respected him very much, but you

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wouldn't dare talk back to him.

Q. And how did the boys behave, generally?

Were they out of control? Were they generally

well behaved? Were they just boys?

A. Like wild boys, but respectful to anybody that would

come in. Very -- you know, "What can I" -- "Can I get you

anything?" Or just very hospitable.

Q. And you said you stayed at the girls' dorm; is that

correct?

A. Yeah.

Q. About how many girls were there?

A. I want to say like four or five.

Q. And did you have an opportunity to observe Mr. Johnson

interact with the girls?

A. He really didn't.

Q. He didn't?

A. He didn't interact with the girls, really.

Q. Did you see him around them much at all?

A. I mean, they would come and eat, but not really.

Q. What about -- did Mr. Johnson seem to have some

children who were favorites or that he gave more attention

to than others?

A. Yes.

Q. And who were those, that you observed?

A. I would say RT XX, SO XXX, and especially LS X.

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Q. And what makes you say that?

What treatment makes you say that?

A. LS X never really had to do -- like if all the boys had

to clean or like move stuff, he really never had to do that.

When we traveled to Kampot in the truck, all the boys were

in the back and LS X got to sit in front with the air

conditioning.

When we were there, one of the ministries brought

all kinds of stuff and clothes and toys, and LS X got to

pick what he wanted first. And, yeah, he just -- of

everyone, I felt like he got -- was treated the best.

Q. What about -- did you have any observations regarding

SO XXX or RT XX?

A. Yeah. He didn't -- I never -- with the older boys, he

was pretty harsh with them. But I would say I didn't really

ever see him harsh with LS X, SO XXX, or RT XX.

Q. And did you -- I believe earlier you said you went to

Mr. Johnson's room. Did you go once? Several times?

Often?

A. Yeah. I was going to ask Daniel a question. And I

went over to the boys' home and I was like, "Where's

Daniel?" They're like, "Oh, he's upstairs."

And I went upstairs and I -- they are like, "Oh,

his room is right there."

And I walked in, and he had his shirt off and he

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was laying on the bed and a bunch of the boys were giving

him a massage. And then I asked him this question and then

he answered it, and then I went back and told everyone what

the plan was.

Q. You said a bunch of boys. What's a bunch of boys?

A. It was probably like four of them. Four or five.

Q. And they were giving him a massage.

Were they giving him a massage at the same time?

A. Yeah. They were like rubbing his back. They were

sitting on him. He was laying face-forward. Sitting on

him, massaging him.

Q. Ms. Brand, obviously you are sitting here in a trial

now, so it's easy to look at things through different

colored glasses, but did you notice that at the time?

Did that strike you at the time?

A. It did. I just -- we were guests there. And, I mean,

I know they loved him like a father and all of that. But

for me, if I had guests there, I just would be, like, "Boys,

we are not going to give massage."

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection as to what she would do.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. WEINERMAN: Move to strike.

THE COURT: Please strike the last statement.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Ms. Brand, did Mr. Johnson encourage the children to

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spend time with you and your husband and your group?

A. No. Some of -- I felt like he wouldn't let them get

too close to us. Like one -- one night, PE XX and BT XX,

they were in a room and we were joking round with them. And

we were laughing and cracking up and just having fun getting

to know one another, asking about each other's countries and

just things that were similar and different. And Daniel

walked in and he was not happy. He, like, yelled at them

and kicked them out.

And, yeah, I just -- we couldn't get -- ever get

too close.

Q. And was there a mother figure at the orphanage?

A. No.

Q. How long did you spend in Kampot, approximately?

A. I don't remember.

Q. Was it just a day trip?

A. We spent the night, for sure.

Q. And Kampot is 123. Would you mind -- or would you mind

pulling up 123 to make sure that's --

Let me ask you, is that Kampot?

I am sorry. Is there a picture on your screen?

A. Not yet. Not yet.

MR. WEINERMAN: I am sorry, I didn't hear. That's

not Kampot?

THE COURT: Not yet. There's no picture.

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MR. SWEET: It just hasn't popped up yet.

MR. WEINERMAN: Oh, it hasn't come up. I am

sorry.

THE WITNESS: Yes, that is Kampot.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And I believe you just said you spent at least one

night there?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you stay?

A. In this room.

Q. Sort of this open -- okay. So this is one large room?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you observe anything that night that you

recall?

A. Yes. We were exhausted that night, and we all went to

bed. We -- under the mosquitoes nets. Each of us had one.

And some of the boys -- there's like a room on the side.

They went and slept in there. And then the other half of

the boys, they had to sleep outside the building. And

Daniel came to bed, and RT XX and LS X went to sleep, one on

each side of his arms.

Q. And -- okay. Ms. Brand, you have a husband, correct?

A. I do.

Q. And you have daughters?

A. I do.

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Q. Does your husband ever lie down with his daughters in

his arms?

A. He does.

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; relevancy.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: He does. It's different. He

doesn't snuggle with them the way Daniel was snuggling with

the boys. It's different. Like cuddling and -- but it's

not like -- I don't know. It was -- something was a

little -- I felt a little bit uncomfortable when I saw it.

Q. Could you describe --

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection as to her feelings.

THE COURT: Overruled as to the last statement.

MR. SWEET: I didn't -- so the objection is

overruled?

THE COURT: Correct.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. I am sorry.

Could you describe how he was holding them?

A. Yeah. So Daniel came in and he laid down, and he said

something in Khmer. And then right away LS X and RT XX

came, and he just went to bed. And he had each boy, like,

on the side.

And even -- I mean, I was -- yeah. It was just

one on each side, and it was a little -- it was a little a

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little weird.

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection as to weird. Move to

strike.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

THE COURT: Sustained. The jury can draw their --

THE WITNESS: I thought it was a little bit --

THE COURT: Just wait a second. I am talking for

a moment.

Just describe things, what you saw and what you

heard.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

THE COURT: Thank you.

THE WITNESS: And then the next morning when we

all woke up, Daniel, I noticed, was letting LS X and RT XX

play video games on his phone and playing games. And

something just didn't feel right about that.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Let me ask --

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection as to "something didn't

feel right." Move to strike.

THE COURT: Sustained. It will be stricken.

MR. SWEET: But the first part of the sentence

remains, about the video game?

THE COURT: Yes.

BY MR. SWEET:

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Q. And Ms. Brand, were other boys playing video games?

A. No.

Q. Ms. Brand, did you ever see boys spend the night in

Mr. Johnson's room at the orphanage in Phnom Penh?

A. No, because I wasn't sleeping in the boys' home.

Q. Ms. Johnson -- excuse me. Ms. Brand, you said you were

friends with Mr. Johnson. What was your relationship like

with Mr. Johnson during your time in Cambodia?

A. We had a good relationship.

Q. When you came back from Cambodia, did you continue to

support the boys?

A. I did.

Q. Did you have concerns about what was happening in

Cambodia?

A. I did.

Q. And how did that impact you?

Let me ask you this: Did you take any steps

regarding what you saw?

A. I prayed to the Lord a lot. I also told my husband

that I wanted to make sure that I stayed -- that we both

stay a part of the boys' lives and that we, you know, have

an opportunity to go down there and, you know, be a part of

them, just because some things I felt could be better.

Q. Who was it that you were sponsoring?

A. I sponsored Pong. I sponsored Ravy. That was like a

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monthly thing. And then when Daniel would come down and

there was bigger needs for like churches and wells and

whatever else is going -- whatever other needs they had, we

would also support in that area directly. We would give it

directly to Daniel.

Q. And Ms. Brand, when you were in Kampot, was there a

time when you saw Mr. Johnson -- what was Mr. Johnson

typically dressed like in either Phnom Penh or outside?

A. In Kampot he -- just in shorts and a T-shirt. But in

Prey Veng, when we stayed there, Daniel would walk around in

a little towel. And nobody else was.

Q. When you say "little," how little is little?

A. I mean he was covered.

Q. When you say nobody else was, do you mean no other

westerners were?

A. There was no Khmer people walking around like that

either.

Q. And Ms. Brand, are you still in contact with the boys

or, now, young men?

A. I am.

Q. And are you still friendly with the boys who you

identified or do you still stay in contact with many of the

boys you identified in the photographs?

A. I do.

MR. SWEET: Thank you, Ms. Brand. I have no

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further questions?

THE COURT: All right. Cross-examination.

MR. WEINERMAN: Thank you.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So Ms. Brand, you -- your relationship with Daniel

started as one where you are donating money to his ministry

and to Hope Transitions, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And I assume you donate to other religious causes

besides Daniel's ministry; is that right?

A. No.

Q. Just to Daniel's ministry?

A. I mean, I will give an offering to my church, but

not -- I don't give the kind of money that I was giving to

Daniel to my congregation.

Q. And your congregation, you are from Fresno; is that

correct?

A. I am.

Q. And did the congregation in which you heard Daniel make

a recitation, is it called the church of Fresno?

A. No. Actually, I no longer go to the church that Daniel

used to come visit. I don't go to that church anymore.

Q. Okay. So did Daniel visit the new church that you are

a member of now?

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A. No.

Q. So just the Church of Fresno?

A. Yes.

Q. That's where he made the presentation?

A. It was called Fresno Church Triumphant, not Church of

Fresno.

Q. Thank you. All right.

So your contact with Daniel started in around

2012? That's when he made the presentation?

A. Yeah. That's when we got the invite to go to Cambodia.

Q. And you were in Cambodia in April of 2012, I believe

you testified to?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were there for three weeks?

A. Approximately.

Q. And you weren't with -- you weren't in the actual Hope

Transitions Center building 24/7; is that right?

A. We were there a lot. Like we did everything together.

So we ate together. The only thing that -- the only time we

were not together is when we were sleeping at night.

Q. Okay. You slept in, I think, the girls' quarters?

A. Yes.

Q. In the same building, just a different floor?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, you talked about some of the things you sponsored.

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So you actually sponsored, it sounds like, two of

the boys?

A. Consistently, yes.

Q. And that involved sending a monthly stipend for the

boys?

A. Yes.

Q. And you also sponsored projects such as building of

wells?

A. Wells, churches, anything that they needed.

I -- when we were in Cambodia, one thing we

noticed was that they heavily relied on support from

America. And so we thought -- Daniel and my husband and I,

we were talking. And Daniel told us, you know, we need to

get a business started here in Cambodia to where we don't

have to rely on Americans and we can bring in our own money.

And we were all for that.

And so Daniel told us -- PE XX is one of the boys

who --

MR. WEINERMAN: I am going to stop to object now

as nonresponsive, Judge.

THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, we also gave him --

MR. WEINERMAN: The judge has to rule on the

objection.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

THE COURT: Let's go ahead and we'll stop here.

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Let's ask a question.

MR. WEINERMAN: Thank you.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So if we could bring up Exhibit 615, Page 48.

I am going to show you a few photos, and hopefully

that will come your way soon. That's already admitted, so

that should be published to everyone.

THE COURT: It will be published.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. Just tell me if you see it.

A. I see the picture.

Q. All right. Do you recognize that as the Kampot church?

A. Yes. It's a different angle. Yes, I do.

Q. All right. And that's the one you stayed in that one

evening when you saw Daniel in the mosquito net?

A. Yes.

Q. And could we pull up Defense Exhibit 616.

MR. WEINERMAN: Well, we can -- we can -- that's

not 616, is it?

MS. MORROW: No.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. All right. Well, why don't we talk about this one when

you were at Kampot?

A. This is Prey Veng.

Q. This is Prey Veng. I apologize.

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THE CLERK: What exhibit is this, Counsel?

MR. WEINERMAN: This is Exhibit 616, page 49,

that's been admitted.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. While we are here, I will ask a few questions about

that.

So you are familiar with Prey Veng, obviously?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you contribute to its -- to the building of the

Prey Veng complex?

A. Yes.

Q. And that kind of started from scratch. That wasn't a

remodel. That was buying land and making model drawings and

then building one structure at a time, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. So did you visit Prey Veng?

A. We did.

Q. All right. The same trip?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. And when you went to Prey Veng, were there

people at the church, in the courtyard? In the housing?

A. No. We were actually painting the church. So when we

were all in Prey Veng, the work that we were doing there is

we were painting the church.

Q. So you were helping put the finishing touches on the

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construction?

A. Yes.

Q. And when you went there on this trip, others went with

you from Hope Transitions Center?

A. Yes.

Q. So some of the kids?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Did Daniel go?

A. Yes.

Q. Sopheak?

A. Hmm?

Q. Sopheak? Pastor Sopheak. I pronounce his name wrong,

and I apologize. Sopheak, the pastor?

A. Sopheak?

Q. Sopheak.

A. I don't remember Sopheak.

Q. How many boys went?

A. All the older boys. And then the younger ones were

just RT XX and LS X were the younger -- only younger ones

that went.

Q. All right. So did you all go in the same vehicle?

Different vehicles?

A. Yeah. We went in two. So there was a van that we

rent -- or they rented, Daniel rented for us. We were in

there with some of the boys, and then Daniel had a big Ford

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truck.

And we brought a bunch of stuff: Food, drinks,

water, and all of that.

Q. All right. So who was in the van with you?

A. Oh, I -- do you have the picture?

For sure I can't remember.

Q. Definitely don't have a photo of you on that trip. I

am sorry.

A. Okay.

Q. But you don't remember who was there?

A. It was all -- a lot of the older boys were with us.

Q. Okay. And you are saying the younger boys went with --

in the --

A. Daniel.

Q. -- pickup truck?

A. They were in the --

Q. Who else was in that truck besides Daniel?

A. I want to say Pong. And I don't remember. I know for

sure Daniel, and then the two younger boys.

Q. When you say the two younger boys, do you mean LS X?

A. LS X and RT XX.

Q. Okay. And any adults?

A. I don't remember.

Q. We are going to show you a photo of the pickup. Okay.

We are going to have to -- you know what? We'll

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maybe get to it later. We'll move on to something else.

All right. So you worked on the Prey Veng complex

doing some painting and things like that, correct?

A. Mm-hmm.

Q. How many -- did you stay overnight or did you just go

for the day?

A. We stayed the night.

Q. Stayed the night?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. And where did you sleep?

A. There was a room upstairs. My husband and myself were

on one bed, and then my mom and Nicole were on the other

bed. And then Karla was in the room right behind us, by

herself.

Q. And where did everybody else sleep?

Where did the others sleep?

A. Like the boys and Daniel? I don't know. We all just

said goodnight and went to bed.

Q. So you didn't walk down and see how the sleeping

arrangements were at any time?

A. (Shakes head.)

Q. No?

A. No.

Q. So you have to -- when you answer a question, you have

to kind of say yes or say no --

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A. No.

Q. -- because the court reporter can't see you shaking

your head.

A. No.

Q. Thank you.

So getting back now to Kampot, where you stayed

overnight as well.

Could we put up the photo of the government's

exhibit, and I apologize for not remembering but the one

with the mosquito nets.

All right. There we go. We have it.

So there were three separate mosquito nets set up.

I can't tell -- looks like there's one behind the one in the

foreground, but I can't tell.

Were there two or three set up?

A. This was -- this is not when we were there. But I

would say there was like three or four.

Q. Three or four mosquito nets with mattresses set up --

A. Yes.

Q. -- when you stayed there?

A. Yes.

Q. So you stayed in one with -- who stayed with you in

one?

A. My husband -- my husband and I were in one mosquito

net. Nicole and my mom were in another mosquito net. And

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then Daniel and the two boys were in another one.

Q. And the other kids were sleeping somewhere else?

A. Outside. And then some of them were in that -- there

was a side room with bunk beds, and some of them slept in

there.

Q. So you talked about what you saw in terms of Daniel

holding -- having two of the kids maybe fall asleep in his

arms.

Were you up all night to see all the positions, if

any --

A. No.

Q. -- that they slept through the night?

A. No.

Q. All right. So you don't know if that changed during

the night?

A. No.

Q. And you don't know what it looked like in the morning?

A. I did. I know what it looked like in the morning.

Q. All right.

A. We all woke up together.

Q. Okay. All right.

A. And I woke up to Daniel getting up and giving the boys

a cell phone to play with. And they sat there for about a

good 20 minutes under the mosquito net playing the game

together.

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Q. So the boys were playing video games for a while. For

an hour?

A. 20 minutes.

Q. All right. Then he took them back?

A. No. Then we all tore everything down --

Q. All right.

A. -- and got up and started the day.

Q. Did Daniel take the cell phones back from the kids?

A. Eventually, yeah.

Q. So you don't know whether these were cell phones that

the kids owned and Daniel was just supervising --

A. It was Daniel's.

Q. Let me finish the question.

A. Okay.

Q. You will get a chance to answer.

A. Sorry.

Q. So you don't know whether these were Daniel's phones or

whether these were phones that the kids belonged and Daniel

was supervising their use?

A. I know it was Daniel's because he took it out of his

pocket and gave it to them.

Q. That doesn't rule out that Daniel had in his pocket

phones belonging to the two kids, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. I mean, some of the donors were very generous and gave,

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as gifts to kids that they sponsored, cell phones, right?

A. I didn't. But yes, maybe other people did.

Q. All right. You talked about BT XX leading your group

around, I think, Phnom Penh, right?

You have to say yes or no.

A. Yes.

Q. And he -- did BT XXXXXXX accompany you when you went to

Prey Veng or Kampot?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. I mean, BT XXXXXXX spoke English pretty well,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. So he was a good person, if Daniel wasn't there or even

if Daniel was there, to explain what Hope Transitions Center

was doing in the city and out in the country?

A. Yes.

Q. You testified about some of Daniel's discipline, how he

interacted with the boys or what your observations were.

Do you recall that testimony?

A. Yes.

Q. Would you agree that -- well, first let me ask you

this: Hope Transitions Center had approximately 25 to 30

boys and approximately five girls during the time you

visited in 2012?

A. Yes.

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Q. So would you agree that, particularly when it comes to

boys, you need to have rules?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. You let 25, 30 boys run wild, it's anarchy?

A. Yes.

Q. So Daniel had rules, right?

A. I wouldn't say rules. When he told them to do

something, they did it. It wasn't like these are the rules

of the house. You know, this is the structure, here's what

we do. It was like whatever he says, they just do it.

Q. Sometimes the boys didn't follow the rules and Daniel

punished them?

A. When I was there, they always listened to him.

Q. You never saw -- I think you testified earlier that

you -- that there was punishment for minor things, breaking

the rules. Daniel raised his voice, and I believe you

testified that you thought he spanked someone --

A. Yes.

Q. -- who broke the rules, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you get the impression that Daniel was overwhelmed?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Overwhelmed when it came to interacting with the

kids?

A. No.

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Q. Did you feel that Daniel needed more support?

A. Accountability, yes.

Q. He needed maybe additional adults supervising the kids?

A. There were adults there. They were -- the people that

would come and cook. There were adults there.

Q. But they didn't live there?

A. No.

Q. Okay. We are talking now about people who were

actually on the premises.

A. Yes.

Q. That was pretty much Daniel and Sopheak, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And 25 to 30 boys and approximately five girls, that's

not a very good parent or adult-to-child ratio. Would you

agree?

A. Yes.

Q. He needed more help?

A. Yes.

Q. And one of the reasons that ministries came, people

visited like you, was to help out --

A. Yes.

Q. -- for short periods of time?

A. Yes.

Q. And that's what you tried to do when you were there?

A. Yes.

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Q. Now, as far as -- you testified about Daniel's -- the

massages, okay? You testified about the massages.

When you saw Daniel being massaged, I assume he

wasn't wearing a shirt?

A. Yes.

Q. But he was wearing shorts?

A. Yes.

Q. And the kids were wearing clothes?

A. Yes.

Q. Would you agree that Cambodia is a little -- is pretty

informal in terms of dress compared to, maybe, Fresno?

A. Informal? What do you mean by that?

Q. People walk around without T-shirts -- without a shirt

on?

A. When I was there, the boys all wanted to cover up

because I noticed when I was there they all have this

complex about being so dark. And I continually tell them

that brown is beautiful, and in America we love tan skin.

So the boys were always covered up. Long-sleeve

shirts on hot days, because they didn't want their skin to

be brown.

Q. Okay. So let me ask you a question, then, about the

climate. Cambodia is a pretty warm climate?

A. Yes.

Q. Very humid?

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A. Yes.

Q. And the boys, for whatever reason, who you saw wear

shirts, they -- you indicate they did that -- you -- well,

let me ask this: Did you talk to the boys about why they

wore shirts?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. You -- you also talked about Daniel walking

around with just a towel, and you thought that that was

inappropriate.

A. Yes, because nobody else was.

Q. Okay.

A. And there was women there. My mother, who is older.

Older Khmer women around.

Q. So we are going to show you Exhibit 616, page 115.

And that is --

(Counsel conferred with tech. support staff.)

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So I'd like you to look at that photograph. And first, do you recognize the person in the

photograph?

A. It's blurry. I can't really see.

Q. Did you ever meet Pastor Kim San in Prey Veng?

A. Yes.

Q. Would you look at that photo and tell me if that

appears to be Pastor Kim San?

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A. Oh, yes.

Q. Okay. And what is he wearing?

A. A towel.

Q. Okay. Did you ever see him wearing a towel when you

were in --

A. No.

Q. All right. Okay.

So after you got back, you -- let me ask this:

You know who Karla Comstock is?

A. I do.

Q. Okay. So she is a woman who also supported the church

and visited Hope Transitions Center and a lot of the other

places; Prey Veng, Kampot, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And do you recall chatting on Facebook with

Karla Comstock about some of these things we just talked

about, the massage and Daniel just wearing a towel?

A. I don't remember.

Q. All right. So I am going to ask you to look at your

screen. It's not an exhibit. We are not publishing it to

the jury, but if we can just publish this to Ms. Brand's

screen?

And just for identification, it's Johnson 08840.

(Counsel conferred with tech. support staff.)

MR. WEINERMAN: And we'll also see it here, and

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the Court will see it.

THE COURT: I believe so.

MR. WEINERMAN: This is the first time I am trying

this, so --

THE COURT: Okay.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. Now, the writing is kind of small. I don't know if we

can make it a little bigger.

All right. So I am just going to show you a small

exchange of chats you had with Karla Comstock on June 2nd, I

am presuming that would be 2012, a few months after you got

back from visiting Daniel's ministry in Cambodia.

A. Yes, I did. Yes, I remember this.

Q. All right. And then -- go ahead. I am sorry.

A. I do remember this.

Q. All right. And then we are going to show you another

portion of your chat exchange with Karla Comstock about it.

A. Okay.

Q. All right. So you discussed with Karla Comstock in

this chat about Daniel getting massages from some of the

kids?

A. Yes. Straddling him, yes.

Q. All right. And Karla Comstock replied that she saw the

same thing and didn't think it was that big of a deal.

A. She is talking about the massages that the boys would

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come give us. They would come behind our neck and they

would massage us real fast like that. And we would be like,

"Oh, thank you." They would say, "For hard work," and they

would come around, they would just rub all our necks. We --

they weren't straddling us.

Q. All right. And you also told her what you saw about

the four boys giving Daniel a massage, right?

You talked about that?

A. Yes. But the straddling, no.

Q. And her response was that he would give -- he,

referring to Daniel, would give the kids like a dollar or

something small for giving him, Daniel, a back massage,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. And she also mentioned that the kids would also come

down and give back massages to the visitors.

A. Yes. The massage was different because I got one, too.

Q. All right. And did you give the kids a little money

for doing that?

A. No.

Q. And Karla Comstock, when -- her response was it seemed

to make sense for Daniel to, in essence, tip the kids for

giving him a massage, or the visitors tipping the kids to

give them a massage.

MR. SWEET: Objection; hearsay, Your Honor. What

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Ms. Comstock says is --

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. Did you also discuss with her about when Daniel got a

massage, he had his shirt off and only shorts on, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And you didn't think -- you didn't express any

concern that that was weird or inappropriate?

A. I did. The message said I did. If you pull it up

again, I can --

Q. Okay. Go ahead. Let's pull it up.

A. I said it made me feel uncomfortable, if you pull it up

again.

Q. All right. Yeah, we will.

A. Make it bigger.

Q. I think you said your mom was uncomfortable, if you

look at the third paragraph down. That was with the Prey --

that was with the towel. I am sorry.

So correct me if I am wrong. You didn't say

anything about thinking it was -- that it made you

uncomfortable?

A. I can't read it because it's blurry and you have all

the text. If you can blow it up again?

Q. All right. Yes, we will.

A. Yes. The part that you are bringing up is me saying

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that the boys were straddled on him on the bed massaging

him. And -- and then Karla just -- on the other part, where

I said we felt uncomfortable.

Q. And you didn't say you felt uncomfortable?

A. Yeah. My mom was uncomfortable when we -- yeah, when

he was walking around with the towel.

Q. So you are agreeing with me or not?

A. Yes.

Q. So getting back to Daniel Johnson's role at Hope

Transitions Center, would it be fair to call him a director?

A. Yes.

Q. So he supervised other people, not only volunteers but

the kids who lived there, and then other people who lived at

the -- who lived at Hope Transitions Center?

A. When you say "supervise," I would say he scheduled

things for us and he was definitely in charge of

fundraising.

Q. All right. And when he was there, he was in charge of

the everyday operations of Hope Transitions Center in terms

of --

A. In terms of --

Q. -- delegating?

A. Delegating, yes.

Q. So he delegated things to other people --

A. Yes.

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Q. -- who either worked there or volunteered?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. So you mentioned that he didn't go to

church when you were there, but somebody else was there,

Pastor Sopheak, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And by virtue of him being called Pastor Sopheak, would

it be fair to say that he had a more understanding of the

doctrines of Christianity than Daniel, who was not a pastor?

A. When Daniel would come to our churches and talk about

God and how --

THE COURT: You need to start focusing on the

question and answering the question that's been asked of

you.

THE WITNESS: Okay. Okay. Can you repeat the

question?

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. Yes, I will.

So would it be fair to say that delegating the

teachings, the religious teachings, running services, to

Pastor Sopheak made more sense because Pastor Sopheak was

trained as a pastor?

A. Yes.

Q. And as far as you know, Daniel Johnson had no formal

training as a pastor?

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A. Not to my understanding. He was with YWAM, very well

trained.

(Reporter interrupted.)

THE WITNESS: He was with YWAM, very well trained.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. As a pastor?

A. As a missionary for Christ.

Q. But not as a pastor, someone who would lead religious

services?

A. Yes, I guess.

Q. So when you are there for three weeks, you -- well,

when you leave your three-week visit, you don't know if

Daniel's role on the day-to-day operation of Hope

Transitions Center changes?

A. No.

Q. And you took a short period of time, three weeks, and

you are testifying what you observed during that three-week

period?

A. Yes.

Q. You don't know what his role was before you arrived and

after you arrived?

A. No.

Q. I think you testified that you observed some of the

boys -- I think you used the word "wild," and I am trying to

recall the context. I think you testified that you did

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observe the boys just kind of acting wild, like normal boys

would?

A. Like no structure. Like they'd get up in the morning

on a weekend, and there was like -- they were just kind of

hanging around, hanging out. There was no, like, this time

we do this. No structure.

Like at lunchtime, everyone needs to be here at

12:00, or dinnertime, or worship starts at this time. There

was none of that. It was like Daniel came and said, "Here's

what we are going to do," and everyone is like, "Yes, sir."

Q. Okay. You testified that in your opinion Daniel gave

special treatment to LS X?

A. Absolutely.

Q. LS X was one of the youngest, if not the youngest kid

at Hope Transitions Center?

A. Yes.

Q. And he was, in stature, one of the smaller, if not the

smallest boy?

A. Yes. There was a few others too. RT XX and --

Q. And when you said -- when you went to Kampot, you went

in a van and Daniel went in a pickup truck --

A. Yes.

Q. -- or you went -- all right.

So you went in a separate vehicle?

A. Yes.

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Redirect Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

MR. WEINERMAN: Thank you. I have no further

questions.

THE COURT: Redirect.

MR. SWEET: Thank you.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Ms. Brand, I just have a few short questions.

You saw a picture a few minutes ago. I believe it

was Pastor Kim wearing a towel?

A. Yes --

Q. Was the towel that you saw Mr. Johnson wearing, was it

similar to Pastor Kim's towel?

A. Pull it up, please.

Q. Can you pull up Pastor Kim's picture, please.

Thank you.

A. No. It was a shorter -- the towel was shorter. It was

like a -- like a towel that we would use in America, but it

wasn't as long. It wasn't to the knees. It was up a little

higher.

Q. And Ms. Brand, you -- in talking about massages, I

would like to just go back to that conversation with

Ms. Comstock -- excuse me. Yes. With Karla Comstock for a

minute.

And we can pull it up if need be, but let me ask

you if this is -- did you raise the issue of the massages

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Redirect Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

with Ms. Comstock?

A. Yes.

Q. And after she said, well, it didn't appear sexual, did

you say some people mentioned that Daniel -- well, let me go

to a different part.

"One morning I went over to the boys' house and he

had the door closed and LT XXXXXXX and most of the younger

boys were straddled on him on his bed massaging him."

Is that what you wrote back to Ms. Comstock?

A. Yes.

Q. And why is it that you were bringing that up?

A. I felt a little bit uncomfortable about it.

Q. And when you -- you said American missionaries received

massages from some of the boys; is that correct?

A. Yeah. The boys, after we'd paint, they would come up

behind us and they would put their -- I mean, it was -- they

weren't up close. They weren't straddling. It wasn't

anything. They would just come behind us and they would

give us a quick, like, neck massage. And we would be like,

"Oh, thank you." And it was just this friendly, like happy

thing.

Q. And let me ask you this: How many of the missionaries

that were receiving massages from the boys received them at

night in bed?

A. None.

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Q. How many had their shirt off?

A. None.

Q. How many were being straddled by the boys?

A. None.

Q. Ms. Brand, is your testimony here today influenced by

any feelings you have about Mr. Johnson?

A. No. I hold no hard feelings against Mr. Johnson.

MR. SWEET: Thank you. I have nothing further.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You are free

to step down.

Next witness for the government.

MR. SWEET: Your Honor, would it be possible to

take a five- or ten-minute break between this witness?

THE COURT: Yes, we can do that.

Folks, we'll be in recess for five minutes.

(Jury out.)

THE COURT: Is there anything we need to discuss

or just taking a break?

MR. SWEET: No, Your Honor. I just wanted to --

before bringing in the next witness, if I could have just

have a minute with the next witness.

THE COURT: Sure.

MR. SWEET: Thanks.

(Recess.)

THE COURT: All right. Should we bring the jury

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in?

THE CLERK: I think so.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. SINHA: Your Honor, we had one housekeeping

question.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. SINHA: So I don't know how long the next

witness is going to be going. But, if possible, we are

hoping to avoid having a witness straddle the night because

I think it's stressful for them to come back. So I asked

the defense -- or Mr. Johnson's team, rather, if we could

end after this witness, whether it's at 4:00 or whether it's

whatever, because the next witness is one of the kids who

lived at the orphanage. So we are asking the court if

perhaps we could end whenever this witness ends and start

him tomorrow.

THE COURT: Sure. Are we generally on track for

where we need to be?

MR. SINHA: I think we are doing okay. Yeah, I

think we are doing pretty well.

THE COURT: Okay. Yeah, that's fine.

(Jury in.)

THE COURT: All right. Please be seated,

everybody.

Next witness for the government.

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LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

MR. SWEET: Thank you, Your Honor. The government

calls LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

THE COURT: Sir, if you'd like to step up to the

witness stand here to my left. Just come on up. If you can

stay standing for just a moment, Ms. Pew will have you sworn

in.

THE CLERK: Raise your right hand.

(The witness was sworn.)

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Yes.

THE CLERK: Please be seated. State your name for

the record.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Yes. My name

is LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

THE CLERK: If you could spell your first and your

last.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): LT XXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Good afternoon, LT XXXXXXX.

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And LT XXXXXXX, what is your date of birth, please?

A. (By the interpreter) I was born in the month of

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, 1997.

Q. And where were you born, please?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) In the province of Kraches.

Q. And is that in the Kingdom of Cambodia?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Where do you live now, please?

A. (By the interpreter) I live in Kraches.

Q. And what do you do there?

A. (By the interpreter) I stay home.

Q. Do you have a job?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Are you in school?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. And tell us about your family, please.

Do you have any brothers?

A. (By the interpreter) I have a younger brother.

Q. Any sisters?

A. (By the interpreter) One younger sister and two older

sisters.

Q. And do you live with either of your parents?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And who is that, please?

A. (By the interpreter) My mom.

Q. And I am going to show you a picture.

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

MR. SWEET: And Your Honor, there were a series of

exhibits which we discussed with counsel and with Ms. Pew.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

I believe there's no objection to that list being admitted.

THE COURT: Those will be published. Thank you.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And do you recognize -- first, do you see something on

the screen to your left?

A. (By the interpreter) I see.

Q. And what is that, please?

A. (By the interpreter) This is my identification.

Q. And it has you being born on XXXXXXX, 1997?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Okay. And LT XXXXXXX, do you know Daniel Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) I know.

Q. How did you first meet him, please?

A. (By the interpreter) I know him through Ma Ta or Ma Na.

Q. And who is Ma Na?

A. (By the interpreter) That person is someone who lives

in a different church.

Q. And so how is it that Ma Na introduced you to Daniel

Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) At that time he went to visit my

town.

Q. Mr. Johnson went to visit your town?

A. (By the interpreter) No. Ma Na is the one.

Q. And so was Ma Na a friend of your family or you just

met him when he came to your town?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) He knows my cousin. He is a

friend.

Q. And LT XXXXXXX, did something happen to your father

when you were young?

A. (By the interpreter) My father passed away.

Q. And about how old were you when that happened?

A. (By the interpreter) Around ten years old.

Q. And at that time, was it just your mom taking care of

you, your brother, and your sisters?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. Yes.

Q. Was it easy or hard for her to support you all?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, difficult.

Q. And so is that part of why Ma Na was introducing you to

Daniel Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And so at some point did you go live at a location with

Mr. Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And I'd like to show you what's marked as Exhibit 271.

Do you recognize that?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Okay. What is that location, please?

A. (By the interpreter) This is the first place in which I

lived.

Q. And did Mr. Johnson live there as well?

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LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And about how old were you when you first moved there?

A. (By the interpreter) Around 11 or 12 years old.

Q. And did anybody from your family join you?

A. (By the interpreter) Daniel.

Q. And what about any of your brothers or sisters? Did

they go to this location as well?

A. (By the interpreter) No. Only two of my siblings. Two

of my sibling and I.

Q. Okay. And who were those two siblings, please?

A. (By the interpreter) RT XX and I.

Q. Okay. So did you make friends when you were living at

this location?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, I did.

Q. Who were some of the people you were friends with?

A. (By the interpreter) Everybody that lived there.

Q. And could you name some of the people that lived there,

please.

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, I can.

Q. Please, go ahead.

A. (By the interpreter) Older sibling, SESX.

Q. Let me ask one question. Is that Pastor Sopheak or SES

XXXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) My older, SESX.

Q. And let me show you Exhibit 45, please.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

And who is that, please?

A. (By the interpreter) Vy.

Q. Okay. And 47, please.

And who is that?

A. (By the interpreter) RT XX.

Q. And is he your little brother?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Okay. And 272, please.

Did you ever live at this location?

A. (By the interpreter) I have.

Q. And 139, please.

Did you ever live at this location?

A. (By the interpreter) I have.

Q. Okay. So LT XXXXXXX, could you tell me a little bit

about what you did at the orphanage?

Did you go to school?

A. (By the interpreter) I went.

Q. And did you like school?

A. (By the interpreter) I like.

Q. Did you go to school the whole time you were at the

orphanage? All three locations?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you have chores?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you play with friends?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And who were some of the boys who were about the same

age as you at these orphanages?

A. (By the interpreter) The name is Cha. Vy. I forgot

most of them and others.

Q. And do you know ES XXX?

A. (By the interpreter) I know.

Q. Do you know LS X?

A. (By the interpreter) I know.

Q. SO XXX?

A. (By the interpreter) I know.

Q. Do you know BT XXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) I know.

Q. So let's talk about BT XXXXXXX for a minute.

What was BT XXXXXXX's role at Hope Transitions

Center?

A. (By the interpreter) He's like, you know, the one who

run the place or a manager or supervisor.

Q. And what about Pastor Sopheak? What was his role?

A. (By the interpreter) He is the -- the preacher of the

Bible.

Q. And Daniel Johnson, what was his role at the orphanage?

A. (By the interpreter) He's the leader. He's the -- he's

the head.

Q. And where did he stay?

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LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) He -- he stayed in the house.

Q. Did he have his own room?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did other people stay in his room sometimes?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did other boys go to his room?

A. (By the interpreter) I have seen some.

Q. And who did -- you said you have seen some. Who have

you seen?

A. (By the interpreter) Sometimes I have seen the names

like Cha, and two or three of them.

Q. Did you see people giving Mr. Johnson massages?

A. (By the interpreter) I have seen.

Q. And have you seen people -- where did you see people

give -- what room did they give Mr. Johnson massages in?

A. (By the interpreter) In the room.

Q. I am sorry?

A. (By the interpreter) In the room.

Q. And which room is that, please?

A. (By the interpreter) His room where he sleeps.

Q. Daniel Johnson's room?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And would people who give massages, would they get any

money or food or gifts?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection without laying a

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

foundation as to personal knowledge.

THE COURT: Go ahead; lay a foundation.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Do you know if anyone received gifts or money in

exchange for giving massages?

A. (By the interpreter) Sometime he gives the weekly money

for study.

Q. And did everybody get money for studying?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And was there sometimes separate money for giving a

massage?

A. (By the interpreter) No. I don't know.

Q. You said you saw some boys giving Mr. Johnson a massage

in his room. Who did you see giving him a massage?

A. (By the interpreter) LS X.

MR. SWEET: I'd like to pull up for just a

second -- this is a different one that we discussed. This

is Exhibit 4. It's already been admitted.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Do you know the boys in that photo, LT XXXXXXX?

INTERPRETER LAURENT: No, some -- excuse me.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Yes, I know.

Q. Who is in the left, please, in the red sweatshirt?

A. (By the interpreter) ES XXX.

Q. And who is on the right, the smaller one?

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LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX - 5/2/2018

Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) LS X.

Q. LT XXXXXXX, when you talk about people giving

Mr. Johnson massages, which location of the orphanage did

you see that at?

The first? The second? The third? Or any

combination?

A. (By the interpreter) I see in his room.

Q. Okay. And let's clarify. Let's talk about --

MR. SWEET: Could we pull up 271, please?

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And how about this location, LT XXXXXXX? Did you see

boys giving Mr. Johnson massages in his room here?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. How about 272, please.

How about at this location?

A. (By the interpreter) No. No, no, no.

Q. How about -- was it "no" or "I don't know"?

INTERPRETER LAURENT: No. No, no.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And how about 139, please?

A. (By the interpreter) Saw.

(Reporter interrupted.)

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): I see or I saw.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. LT XXXXXXX, did you see boys go into Mr. Johnson's room

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

to watch movies?

A. (By the interpreter) I have.

Q. Have you ever watched a movie in Mr. Johnson's bedroom?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And sometimes would boys watch movies in the evening or

at night in Mr. Johnson's room?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you ever see boys fall asleep in Mr. Johnson's

room?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did you ever fall asleep -- actually, let me ask one --

let me back up.

LT XXXXXXX, was there a night when you walked --

was there a day or a time where you walked into

Mr. Johnson's room, just opened the door?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you see Mr. Johnson in that room?

A. (By the interpreter) I saw.

Q. Was there anyone else in the room with Mr. Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) I saw LS X and --

(Reporter interrupted.)

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): And --

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And was Mr. Johnson doing something to LS X?

A. (By the interpreter) I don't know because I opened and

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

I closed. I open and I saw and I closed.

Q. So you opened, you saw, and you closed; is that right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Okay. So I want to talk to you about the "saw" part

for just a minute. Okay?

Okay. Was LS X standing or sitting?

A. (By the interpreter) He was sleeping. He was sleeping

on.

Q. What was he sleeping on?

A. (By the interpreter) On the bed or mattress.

Q. And what was Mr. Johnson doing?

A. (By the interpreter) Because I open, I saw. Then I

close it back up.

Q. Did you see LS X's clothes being taken off by

Mr. Johnson?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; leading.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): I saw that

there was no shirt.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. LT XXXXXXX, did you talk to LS X about that afterwards?

A. (By the interpreter) I have.

Q. And did LS X tell you something that Mr. Johnson did to

him?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. I heard -- he told me

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

that --

MR. WEINERMAN: I'd object as hearsay.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Mr. Daniel

Johnson touched his penis.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And did -- so LS X told you that Mr. Johnson touched

LS X's penis. Is that what you are saying?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Did LS X say anything about sucking -- Mr. Johnson

sucking LS X's penis?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; leading.

THE COURT: I will let it go a little bit here.

Overruled.

Go ahead.

INTERPRETER LAURENT: I am sorry. I could not

hear him. Speak slowly, I said.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Yes, he did

tell me once.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. LS X told you that Mr. Johnson sucked LS X's penis

once. Is that what you are saying?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled. It's clarifying.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Yes.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Did you talk to SO XXX about sex activity with

Mr. Johnson or did you not?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did SO XXX ever talk to you about being abused by

Mr. Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. So when you talked to LS X about being abused, did you

go ask him about it?

Let me clarify. Did you go ask LS X about being

abused by Mr. Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) Asked.

Q. You went and asked LS X?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Is there a reason you went and asked LS X if he was

being abused by Mr. Johnson?

INTERPRETER LAURENT: Excuse me for a second.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): I saw -- when

he came, I saw his face and his face was unhappy.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And was that soon after you opened the door, saw, and

closed the door?

A. (By the interpreter) After closing the -- after the

closing and he came out, you know, for a short while, and

then I went to ask.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

Q. So did something you see when you opened the door lead

you to go ask him?

I am sorry. Did something you see when you opened

the door lead you to go ask LS X?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. It's because I saw him

laying there, and after he came outside he was not happy.

So I went to ask him -- in a -- in a --

(Reporter interrupted.)

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): I went to ask

him in a jokingly manner.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. When you saw LS X lying on Mr. Johnson's bed, were his

pants off or on?

A. (By the interpreter) I did not see because the blankets

was covered. The cover -- the blanket was made.

(Reporter interrupted.)

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Covered. There

was a cover. The blanket covered.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Was Mr. Johnson under the blankets or somewhere else?

A. (By the interpreter) Inside the blanket. He was

sleeping on the bed.

Q. What words do you remember LS X saying to you about

Mr. Johnson touching or sucking his penis?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; asked and answered.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

Hearsay.

THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): He only told me

once. That's all I remember.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Do you remember the words he used to you?

A. (By the interpreter) He said, "He sucked my dick once."

Q. In which location was this at, that LS X said that to

you?

A. (By the interpreter) It was the place in which I -- in

my bedroom where I slept.

Q. And is that -- put up 139, please.

Was that this location?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. LT XXXXXXX, how long did you live at this location?

A. (By the interpreter) Two to three months.

Q. Did you move to this location from the second location?

Did the whole group move?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. But you only stayed two or three months?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Two quick things that I want to clear up, LT XXXXXXX.

When I showed you Exhibit 4, the boy in the red

sweatshirt, you say "ES XX" or "ES XX." Is that the same

person as ES XXX?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Same person, different pronunciation of the name?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And could you pull up 151, please.

And on your passport, LT XXXXXXX, I just want

to -- I want to clarify your birthdate.

Is it XXXXXXX, 1997?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. Yes.

Q. Thank you.

And so LT XXXXXXX, I want to ask you about -- I

want to ask you if you remember what time of year it was you

left the orphanage, you left Hope Transitions Center. Was

it before Christmas? Was it after Christmas?

A. (By the interpreter) Before.

Q. Do you -- I'd like to talk to you about why you left

Hope Transitions Center. Is that something you can talk

about, LT XXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) At that time, at that time I left

there, I left there because there was some kind of problem

or issues.

Q. Okay. I'd like to talk to you a little bit about the

problem. Okay?

So LT XXXXXXX, can you tell me where the problem

happened, please?

A. (By the interpreter) In the house.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

Q. And did it -- where in the house did it happen?

A. (By the interpreter) Inside the house, once and for

all.

Q. And was the problem with Daniel Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And were you asleep when the problem happened?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Were you awoken?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And what woke you up?

A. (By the interpreter) He touched me, and then I was

awoken.

Q. Is "he" Daniel Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And can you tell us where he touched you?

A. (By the interpreter) He touched my penis, and I was

awakened.

Q. And what did you do?

A. (By the interpreter) I opened the door and left.

Q. Were you in someone's room?

Did you leave someone's room?

A. (By the interpreter) I was in my -- in my sleeping

area.

Q. Were -- when he touched you, was it under your shorts

or -- was it under your pants or over your pants?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) On my pants. On top of my pants.

Q. Did you say anything to Daniel Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did it happen a second time?

A. (By the interpreter) He touched two to three times.

Q. And where did it happen the second time?

What room were you in?

A. (By the interpreter) In the bedroom with him.

Q. And were you awake or asleep?

A. (By the interpreter) I was asleep.

Q. And what woke you up?

A. (By the interpreter) He touched himself. He touch me.

I -- I was awakened.

Q. And did you say he also touched himself? Daniel

touched himself?

A. (By the interpreter) He touched me.

Q. Where did he touch you?

A. (By the interpreter) In the bedroom.

Q. Okay. And what part of your body did he touch you?

A. (By the interpreter) He touched my penis on top of my

pants.

Q. And what did -- and did that wake you up?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Did you say anything to Daniel Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) No. I opened -- no. Opened the

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

door and left.

Q. How did you feel?

A. (By the interpreter) Angry and -- angry, open the door,

and left.

Q. And can you tell us about the third time?

Where did it happen?

A. (By the interpreter) In his room.

Q. And were you awake or asleep?

A. (By the interpreter) Sleep.

Q. And did something wake you up?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. What woke you up, LT XXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) My body was touched, so I was

awoken.

Q. And who touched you?

A. (By the interpreter) Daniel.

Q. Where did he touch you?

A. (By the interpreter) Touched nearby my penis, and I was

awakened or awoken.

Q. Was -- when you say he touched nearby your penis, was

it your leg? Was it your testicles? Where was it?

A. (By the interpreter) My thigh. Right here.

Q. And what was Daniel wearing?

A. (By the interpreter) He has a pants for sleeping at

night.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

Q. And after you woke up, what did you do?

A. (By the interpreter) Left outside.

Q. Outside the room or outside the building?

A. (By the interpreter) I went outside -- outside the room

and went to the -- my sleeping quarter.

Q. And how did you feel about that? How did you feel

towards Mr. Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) I was angry at him because he was

touching in that way.

Q. When you say "in that way," can you describe it? In

what way was he touching you?

A. (By the interpreter) Touching. Before he's touching my

penis, he touched in that way. I was angry.

Q. And while this was happening, did you ever see Daniel

Johnson touch his own penis?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. And when he was touching you, was he using his hand or

was he using something else?

A. (By the interpreter) He used his hand to touch.

Q. Did you talk to Mr. Johnson about this after any of

these three incidents?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did you tell anyone else?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did you think about telling the police?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. And why not? Is there a reason why not?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Other than Mr. Johnson touching your penis, were you

happy at the orphanage at Hope Transitions Center?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. You were -- so were you happy going to school?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you have friends at Hope Transitions Center?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you have enough food?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you get presents from sponsors?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, I did.

Q. So were most things at the center good?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. So what is it that made you decide to leave?

A. (By the interpreter) When I think about things, think

about things over, think it over, and then I have all these

issues or problems, I just don't want to live there anymore.

Q. Because of the touching?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And so how did you leave?

Did you -- did you tell Mr. Johnson you wanted to

leave?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) The previous time I told him. And

when the first time I told him, he said he doesn't want me

to go. And then I didn't.

Q. When you say the previous time, is that after the first

time Mr. Johnson touched you?

A. (By the interpreter) No. No. I just said I don't want

to -- I want to -- I want to stop living here. I want to go

back to my town.

Q. And -- but this time when you left, did you tell

Mr. Johnson or did you just go?

A. (By the interpreter) I did not tell him. I just left.

Q. And where did you go live, LT XXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) I went to live in Kraches.

Q. And who did you go live with?

A. (By the interpreter) With my mom.

Q. And were you still able to go to school?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. After you left -- let me ask -- stop. Back that up,

please.

How did you feel about leaving and your brother

still being there?

A. (By the interpreter) I was worried about him having

problems.

Q. About being touched by Mr. Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) No. Like whatever problems he has

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

and I am not around, and I am his older brother.

Q. After you left the orphanage, did Mr. Johnson call you

a lot or send you messages a lot right after you left?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, he did call -- he did ask or

call me to come back and say, "Hey, you are still in school.

Come back and go to school."

Q. Okay. And when you left the orphanage, was that about

a year or six months -- about how long was that before

Mr. Johnson was arrested?

A. (By the interpreter) I do not know. I forgot.

Q. Once Mr. Johnson was arrested, did he start sending you

a lot of Facebook messages?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, he sent me messages.

Q. And did he ask you to come see him in jail?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you go see him?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And who did you go with?

A. (By the interpreter) With SO XXX and --

(Reporter interrupted.)

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): With SO XXX

and --

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. SO XXXXXXXX.

A. (By the interpreter) And Piseth.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

(Reporter interrupted.)

INTERPRETER LAURENT: P-I-S-E-T-H.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And when -- did you talk to Mr. Johnson when you saw

him at jail?

A. (By the interpreter) No. I just sat and looked at his

face.

Q. Did he say anything to you about what he did, about the

touching?

A. (By the interpreter) He didn't say anything. He just

said, "I am sorry."

Q. He told you he was sorry?

A. (By the interpreter) He didn't tell me any story. He

just said, "I am sorry," but I don't know what he's sorry

about.

Q. Did he tell you what -- did he talk about the FBI?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did he say anything -- do you remember if he said to

not talk to the FBI?

A. (By the interpreter) He did.

Q. Did he say that to you or was it a Facebook message?

A. (By the interpreter) Facebook.

Q. And what do you recall him saying on Facebook?

A. (By the interpreter) He just said, Don't say anything

to the FBI -- don't say anything to the FBI. I only said

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

that -- I only read it briefly.

Q. And LT XXXXXXX, did you have two Facebook accounts that

you used?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did Mr. Johnson send you messages on both accounts?

A. (By the interpreter) No. Only the one on LT XXXXXXX

XXXXXXX.

Q. Did you get some money sent to you by anyone after

Mr. Johnson was arrested?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did Gary Johnson -- do you remember if Gary Johnson

sent you any money?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. Yes, he -- he had for me

to -- for spending and to pay rent and et cetera.

Q. And did he send you money before Mr. Johnson was

arrested or after Mr. Johnson was arrested?

A. (By the interpreter) Before.

Q. And what about a phone? Did you get -- did Mr. Johnson

get you a phone or give you money for a phone?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did you talk to the police or the FBI after Mr. Johnson

was arrested?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Did you want to talk to the police or the FBI?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

Q. Why not?

A. (By the interpreter) Oh, I am too lazy to -- to be

involved in such messiness.

Q. Is it something you didn't want to talk about?

A. (By the interpreter) Frankly speaking, I don't want to

get involved.

Q. I want to ask you -- I want to make sure I understand

something.

Could we pull up Exhibit 43, please.

Do you see that, to your left?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And this has been previously admitted.

And who is that, please?

A. (By the interpreter) My younger sibling.

Q. And what's his name?

A. (By the interpreter) RT XX.

Q. And he also lived with you?

Did he also live with you at Hope Transitions

Center?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And when you left Hope Transitions Center, was it RT XX

that was still staying there?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, sir.

Q. Did Mr. Johnson ask you to come see him in jail a lot,

if you remember?

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

A. (By the interpreter) Got to twice.

Q. You went twice?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. I'd like to show you a few Facebook messages for a

minute. Okay?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

MR. SWEET: If you could pull up Exhibit 164.

And, Your Honor, this has been admitted.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. And can you see that, LT XXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. It will get bigger. Just one second. Can you -- can

you see that clearly, LT XXXXXXX?

Do you need it bigger?

A. (By the interpreter) That's good.

Q. Okay. So at the top it says LT XXXXXXX. Is that your

Facebook account?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And that's actually one of your two Facebook accounts?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, just the name changing.

Q. Okay. And then it says "Author, Johnson Daniel."

Do you see that?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And does it say, "I tried calling you but it off. I

will call you tomorrow about 9:00 p.m., LT XXXXXXX."

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

I should have said, "LT XXXXXXX, I love you very,

very, very much."

Is that -- did Mr. Johnson send you a lot of

messages like that?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And at the bottom there's another message, June 25th,

2014: "I will hold your hand and walk with you forever."

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. Yes.

Q. And did Mr. Johnson send you a lot of messages like

that?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Go to page 10, please.

And at the top, to PoZz Ra from Johnson Daniel,

"You are my light."

And then down at the bottom, "And my life."

Is that the kind of message he sent you?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Just a couple more.

On page 11, I have a question for you. Top of

page 11.

At the top, from Johnson Daniel, it says, "Love

Jayden."

What does Jayden mean to you?

A. (By the interpreter) That is a name that he called me

teasingly.

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

(Reporter interrupted.)

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Teasingly or

jokingly.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Did he talk to you about switching your name to Jayden

Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And was it -- did he ask you to come see him a lot in

the jail?

A. (By the interpreter) He asked me once to go -- he asked

me to go see him once, and after that I never got to look at

the messages.

Q. So would he send you a lot of messages and you would

only respond pretty rarely?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Would he count the number of days it had been since he

had seen you?

"Love you, LT XXXXXXX. I haven't seen you in 23

days."

Would he send you messages like that?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. I don't know because I

didn't -- I never got a chance to look at it.

Q. So you didn't look at all the messages he sent you?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And LT XXXXXXX, did you talk to the FBI in Cambodia

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Direct Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

about two months ago about the problems?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. LT XXXXXXX, the FBI wanted to talk to you a few years

ago, and you said you didn't want to go through the trouble.

You didn't want to be involved; is that right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And what changed your mind, LT XXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) Because I was called to come and

talk. I wanted to come. You -- you wanted to talk, so I

just wanted to come and tell you.

Q. And did your brother ask you to come talk to us?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, my younger sibling asked me

and said, "Whatever you know, just tell them."

Q. And so did you come to Phnom Penh and talk to the FBI

and the prosecutors?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, I went to speak with them at

the embassy.

Q. Was it comfortable for you? I mean, was it hard for

you to talk about Daniel Johnson touching you?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And LT XXXXXXX, we -- you, me, the FBI, we talked about

this a few days ago, too; is that right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And you talked to the FBI about two months ago in Phnom

Penh; is that right?

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Cross-Examination by Craig Weinerman

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And LT XXXXXXX, those -- and including today, the three

times we have talked, there's some things you have given

more detail on and some things you have given less detail

on. Is that correct?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; leading.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Yes.

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. LT XXXXXXX, when you say that Daniel Johnson touched

your penis, are you telling the truth?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

MR. SWEET: Thank you. I have no further

questions.

THE COURT: All right. Cross-examination.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. Is it all right if I call you Mr. LT XXXXXXX as well?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. My name is Craig Weinerman. I represent Daniel

Johnson. I have some questions.

You are now 19 years old?

A. (By the interpreter) 20.

Q. Sorry.

And the abuse that you say happened was five, six

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Cross-Examination by Craig Weinerman

years ago?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And you never told anyone about it until you met with

the FBI on March 9th of this year?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. No one? No one? You didn't tell anyone?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Not your brother?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Not your good friend, BT XXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. No adults?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. You didn't tell your mother?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And you testified a minute ago that the reason you

didn't say anything is you didn't want to get involved.

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And then you were asked what changed your mind, right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And you said you changed your mind because the FBI

wanted to talk to you.

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. But the FBI has wanted to talk to you for many years

and you didn't respond to them, correct?

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Cross-Examination by Craig Weinerman

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. But what changed your mind was you became aware that

many of your friends were coming to the United States to

testify in the trial of Daniel Johnson?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, because I want to be here to

talk about what is the truth.

Q. Okay. And there are other reasons you want to be here,

correct?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. So you heard when you were still in Cambodia that your

brother, BT XXXXXXX, and some of your other friends were

coming here and the trip was being paid by the FBI.

Is that true?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. So you knew they were offering to pay for the travel

expenses?

A. (By the interpreter) Generally speaking, I really

didn't want to be here. I didn't want to come. It's

because I want to come here and tell all about what

happened, what's going on.

And also when I am -- like in the middle of my

work they would often call me to question about this, about

that. And I just want to be done with it, once and for all.

Q. But for years and years you never talked to them and

just ignored them.

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Cross-Examination by Craig Weinerman

A. (By the interpreter) It is because when I started to

work and then the questioning made it really troublesome for

me, and it's hard for me, and I -- it's hard for me. And so

then when I come here, I don't get to work.

Q. You work?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. What type of job do you have?

A. (By the interpreter) I am sorry?

Q. What type of job do you have?

A. (By the interpreter) I work with gold, like necklaces,

making -- and bracelet -- you know, normal stuff.

Q. And how much do you get paid?

A. (By the interpreter) What kind of money?

Q. Yes. How much money?

A. (By the interpreter) It's depending on the days,

whether the -- what's the profit is little or a lot.

Q. What's the most money you have ever made at that job,

in American dollars?

A. (By the interpreter) In a month, $700.

Q. How much?

A. $700.

Q. Seven hundred American dollars in a month?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. How many times has that happened?

A. (By the interpreter) I work there for almost a year,

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and sometimes I get $600; a hundred dollar less, normally,

but mostly 700.

Q. A month?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. What's the name of the place where you work?

A. (By the interpreter) Open the store to make gold.

Q. And that's in what town or what city?

A. (By the interpreter) In Phnom Penh.

Q. Phnom Penh?

INTERPRETER LAURENT: Phnom Penh, mm-hmm.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So this is a financial sacrifice for you to come here

to testify in this case?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. I lost.

Q. Okay. So you could make more money staying in Cambodia

than coming here to testify. Is that what you are saying?

MR. SWEET: Objection, Your Honor. I don't think

counsel's laid a proper foundation that LT XXXXXXX actually

knows how much money he will be getting. I mean, I think he

can get there. I just think it takes another question or

two first.

MR. WEINERMAN: I think he can answer that.

THE COURT: If he can answer it, he can answer it.

If not, we may need to lay more of a foundation.

INTERPRETER LAURENT: I don't remember the

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question.

MR. WEINERMAN: That's all right. I don't either,

so.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So you -- have you been told by any of the gentlemen

and ladies sitting over there, or the FBI agent sitting back

here, how much money you are going to get per day to be here

to testify in the Daniel Johnson case?

A. (By the interpreter) No. I -- I -- they never told me

the amount or how much I would get, you know. In fact, I

had to prepare my own money for spending, just in case.

They didn't give a chance -- they didn't tell me the amount

at all until we got here.

Q. So no one told you that you are going to get $99 a day?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. No one told you? No one?

A. (By the interpreter) No -- yes.

INTERPRETER LAURENT: I am sorry.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): I didn't hear

him. What did you say?

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. Before you left Cambodia, did anybody from the

government tell you you would get witness fees and expenses

in the amount of $99 per day if you came to the United

States to testify?

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A. (By the interpreter) I want to tell you I swear with my

right hand that no one told me anything about the amount of

money about -- for this, for that, at all. I came here

freely and voluntarily.

Q. Since you have been here, has anybody told you you are

going to get $99 a day to testify?

A. (By the interpreter) Even -- even up to this moment, I

don't know about the money for testifying. I just know

about the money for food and other things to -- to -- for

sustenance.

Q. Okay. How much are you getting for that?

A. (By the interpreter) 500.

Q. 500 a day? A week? A month?

A. (By the interpreter) A week. A week.

Q. 500 a week?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. So you are going to make a lot more money if you are

here for a month than you would if you would be working in

Cambodia where you say you make $600 a month?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. That's a lot because I work

for a month.

Q. So 500 a week is 2,000 a month, right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. So who told you that?

A. (By the interpreter) Once I arrived here, when I got

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here they took us to cash the money for food and stuff like

that. That's when I found out the amount.

Q. Can you tell us who told you that?

A. (By the interpreter) The -- the older lady sitting over

there.

Q. Well, I am not even going to try to figure out who that

is.

It's somebody back there, right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. I think her name is Kee or

Keeley or something like that. She told me her name, but I

forgot.

Q. Okay.

A. (By the interpreter) There are so many names, I can't

remember them all.

Q. I know how you feel.

So you are telling us that your good friend -- and

BT XXXXXXX is a good friend of yours, right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. He is like my own flesh and

blood.

Q. BT XX?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And you have been communicating him -- with him on

Facebook ever since he left the United States about five

years ago?

A. (By the interpreter) I do not have any contact with

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BT XX. I do not know his Facebook name.

Q. When is the last time you Facebooked BT XX?

A. (By the interpreter) When I came to the United States

and he came to visit, and that's when he asked me for my

Facebook name.

Q. Came to visit you where?

A. (By the interpreter) In the hotel. And he came, he

said, "How come I don't know your Facebook name? I wanted

to chat and visit you on the -- my chitchat, and I don't

know it. So can I have it?" And I gave it to him.

Q. So you just talked to him since you have been in the

United States, right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Before this time, when's the last time you communicated

with him?

I will ask that again. That wasn't a good

question.

When was the last time you communicated with BT

XXXXXXX when you were in Cambodia and he was in the United

States?

A. (By the interpreter) I never chat with him with -- with

older BT XX, I never have any contact or relation.

Q. All right. Can we show -- this is Defense Exhibit

70 -- no. I am sorry. 700 and -- no, this will be

published and the government -- well, it has writing on it.

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Cross-Examination by Craig Weinerman

So, Judge, we would move this as defense next in

order. I think it's 702.

THE COURT: Any objection?

MR. SWEET: I am sorry. Was there a question?

THE COURT: Is there an objection to the exhibit?

MR. SWEET: No objections, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. It will be received.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So this is a Facebook page from one of your Facebook

accounts?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Do you recognize it?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And on your Facebook page you have a photo of you and

BT XX together, right?

A. (By the interpreter) No. That's just my face. My

picture.

Q. Yeah. Well, unfortunately we have a miscommunication

here. Sorry.

A. (By the interpreter) My Facebook page never have older

BT XX's picture.

Q. All right. We are trying to find it. You are correct

that the one you looked at does not have BT XX's photo. We

are trying to find it.

MR. SWEET: Your Honor, before we publish

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something we have not seen, I am not sure what we are

talking about.

(Counsel conferred.)

MR. SWEET: No objection, Your Honor. Hang on one

second. Actually --

(Counsel conferred.)

MR. SWEET: I guess just in terms of foundation,

Your Honor, whose account -- Your Honor, I am not sure we

know whose account this is.

THE COURT: Let's ask. Don't publish it to the

jury. Let's ask before we publish it to the jury.

MR. WEINERMAN: Excuse me, Judge?

THE COURT: Let's ask before we publish it to the

jury.

MR. WEINERMAN: So can the witness see the --

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. WEINERMAN: He can. All right.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. Is that the Facebook page for the account of LT XXXXXXX

XXXXXXX?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Okay. That's you, right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Okay. And on the Facebook page is a photograph of you

with BT XXXXXXXXXXXXX?

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A. (By the interpreter) Where? Which one is BT XX?

Q. Well, there's some text that says LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX is

with BT XXXXXXXXXXXXX and 76 others. And there's

photographs underneath that.

MR. SWEET: Your Honor, I object. They are

talking about a photo of BT XXXXXXX, and there's apparently

no photo of him on here. It's a minuscule photograph from

August of 2014 for a different Facebook account that we are

talking about to begin with, and with 76 other people in

this photograph. This is premature, and a foundation has

not been laid for this.

THE COURT: I think we have got to allow Mr.

Weinerman to lay a foundation, so --

MR. SWEET: And Your Honor, Mr. Sinha knows

Facebook, but I don't. I am going to let him --

THE COURT: Let's let Mr. Weinerman ask a few

questions if he can establish foundation.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. All right. So this is not a photograph of BT XXXXXXX,

I am now told.

A. (By the interpreter) That's my friend's picture.

Q. Okay. But you mentioned BT XXXXXXX on your Facebook

page, right?

A. (By the interpreter) No, I never. I never have it.

THE COURT: He is not laying a foundation. Fine.

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I understand what's going on on the Facebook page.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So when you say on the Facebook page that you, LT

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, is with BT XXXXXXXXXXXXX, it means you are

tagging him?

THE COURT: Mr. Weinerman, that's Facebook saying

that.

MR. WEINERMAN: Okay.

THE COURT: It's not -- it's not --

MR. WEINERMAN: I am as familiar with Facebook as

Mr. Sweet, so --

THE COURT: I end up being with all sorts of

people without writing notes on Facebook. It just happens.

MR. SWEET: So is this withdrawn? Is 702

withdrawn?

MR. WEINERMAN: Yes, we will withdraw it. I

apologize for not knowing more about Facebook than I should.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So before you came over to the United States to

testify, you knew your brother, RT XX, had talked to the

FBI?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And you knew he was coming over?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And he wanted you to come as well?

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A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And did you talk to him about what you were expected to

say if you were going to be able to come to the United

States?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. That you were going to have to testify that Daniel

Johnson sexually touched you?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And you decided that you were going to talk to the FBI

and tell them that?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. So I want to ask you some questions about Gary Johnson.

You met Gary Johnson at Hope Transitions Center

when he was visiting a few years ago?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And he took a liking to you?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And this all happened before Daniel Johnson was

arrested?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And he started sending you sponsorship money every

month, correct?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. Yes.

Q. A hundred dollars a month?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

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Q. And that helped you with your expenses in Cambodia?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And that started in 2012?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Maybe even earlier?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. So Daniel Johnson's family, or at least his brother,

has taken an interest in you for a very, very long time?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And that continued after Daniel Johnson was arrested?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And that hundred dollars a month continued until very

recently; is that true?

A. (By the interpreter) I -- I am forgetting most of it,

sir, because the contact via the Facebook page, mostly I let

my younger brother is the one who play with it or respond

with it. And whatever money or sponsorship that are

involved or being sent, I let him use it for his expenses

because I don't want to get -- yes, because I already have

my own work. And I thank him so much for him helping me

with my education, with housing, and paying for the rent and

stuff like that. I thank you.

Q. When did he stop sending money?

A. (By the interpreter) I do not know when it stopped

because my -- I heard my brother said -- because he is the

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one who receive the money to go pay for the school and

et cetera.

Q. Did it stop before you went to see the FBI in Cambodia

on March the 9th of this year?

THE INTERPRETER: I am sorry, Your Honor. I could

not make sense of what he just said.

THE COURT: Okay. Ask for clarification.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): I think he

supported my -- me for about a year. However, my younger

brother took that money to pay for his school and I did not

get. And then my younger sibling said thank you for helping

him to -- and having the opportunity to go to school.

And once the supporting stopped, I also provided.

I helped out with some of the expenses, money for the

expense to help pay for the school.

Q. When did the Gary Johnson money stop?

MR. SWEET: Your Honor, I think this has been

asked and answered.

MR. WEINERMAN: He's never answered the question.

He's never answered.

THE COURT: Let's see if he can answer the

question directly. Go ahead.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): I do not know

because my younger sibling is the one who received it.

THE COURT: Okay.

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BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So I know you don't know when the money stopped, but

when you were getting the money, were you getting it through

Western Union?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And when you were collecting --

THE INTERPRETER: Uh --

MR. WEINERMAN: Sorry.

THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, I apologize once

again. The witness's answer doesn't make since.

THE COURT: All right. Ask for clarification.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): I am trying to

say that he helped me with the money. And now that I am

here to testify and you are bringing the money that he

helped me to talk about it. If I knew that, I wouldn't -- I

wouldn't take the money.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. So does your brother use your Facebook and your ID card

to collect the money from Western Union?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. Yes.

Q. So your brother is using your Facebook account, right?

A. (By the interpreter) Only my younger sibling, that's

the one who is chatting and -- but my ID is also with him.

Q. We are talking now about RT XX?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

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Q. Now, you testified that you left Hope Transitions

Center sometime after Daniel touched you, correct?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Isn't it true that you were having problems at school

with some boys who were fighting you or threatening you?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes. When I was in school, you

know, I -- we were arguing, we were fighting with friends

among friends, and we fight.

Q. Okay. But weren't you threatened more seriously?

A. (By the interpreter) I don't know. I forgot about it.

Q. Okay. Did any boys threaten you with knives?

A. (By the interpreter) No.

Q. Has Daniel Johnson been interested in you going to

school?

THE INTERPRETER: I am sorry, Counselor. I

couldn't hear you because I was fiddling with this.

MR. WEINERMAN: That's okay. I am going to

rephrase the question.

BY MR. WEINERMAN:

Q. Has Daniel Johnson always encouraged you to go to

school?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. He thought it was important for you to get a good

education?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

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Q. And he pushed you to do that?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And that's the word he used? Pushed you? Or pushed

you to do better, to go to school?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. So after all this is over and you are done testifying,

are you going to try to stay in the United States?

A. (By the interpreter) Not at all. I want to go back and

live in Cambodia.

Q. Okay. You are not going to -- you don't have any plans

to talk to anybody after your testimony to see if you can

stay in the United States?

A. (By the interpreter) Because I think, whether I live in

the United States or in Cambodia, it's the same because I

have my job, my -- my define job.

Q. When BT XXXXXXX visited you at the hotel the other day,

did he tell you that he is staying in the United States?

MR. SWEET: Objection; hearsay, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. WEINERMAN: Well, BT XXXXXXX is going to

testify, so he can be cross-examined on that.

THE COURT: He hasn't testified yet.

MR. WEINERMAN: So Judge, I would say it's not

being admitted for the truth but to establish the state of

mind of the witness.

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Redirect Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

THE COURT: Sustain the objection.

MR. WEINERMAN: Thank you. No further questions.

THE COURT: Any redirect?

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. SWEET:

Q. Just a few things, LT XXXXXXX. This won't take long.

I just want to clarify, when you said you were

thankful to Gary Johnson for giving you support, is that

Daniel Johnson's brother you are thankful to?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, I thank Gary Johnson for

helping me. However, if I knew he would bring that money

and wish that he help me to question me about it in the

court, I would not have taken that money.

Q. But you are thankful to Gary for what he did for you

and your brother; is that right?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes, I will always be thankful to

him for his help.

Q. And LT XXXXXXX, when you spoke to the FBI in Phnom Penh

in March and you told the FBI that Daniel Johnson touched

your penis, was that the truth?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; asked and answered,

beyond the scope of direct.

THE COURT: Sustained. He has answered the

question.

BY MR. SWEET:

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Redirect Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

Q. You said a minute ago you knew if you came to America

you would be testifying; is that correct?

A. (By the interpreter) I knew.

Q. And LT XXXXXXX, you arrived in America last week; is

that correct?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. And you are scheduled to leave, I believe it's

May 20th; is that right?

A. (By the interpreter) Can you say it again, please?

Q. And your return flight is scheduled May 20th, correct?

Or on or about May 20th?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Okay. Your witness fee and your daily expense fee,

those are set and those aren't going to change. Do you

understand?

A. (By the interpreter) Yes.

Q. Okay. So since that's not going to change, let me just

ask you this: Did Daniel Stephen Johnson touch your penis

in Cambodia at Hope Transitions Center?

MR. WEINERMAN: Objection; asked and answered.

MR. SWEET: He's been accused --

THE COURT: It has been asked and answered.

Sustained.

MR. SWEET: I have nothing further. Thank you,

LT XXXXXXX.

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Redirect Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

THE COURT: All right. Thank you very much, sir.

Feel free to step down. You may have to be available later

if you are needed.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Yes, sir.

May I step down now?

THE COURT: Yes.

THE WITNESS (By the interpreter): Yes, sir.

THE COURT: The translator can step down, too.

Folks, that concludes our testimony for today. We

will start back up tomorrow morning at nine o'clock and

continue with testimony at that time. So we'll see all of

you at nine o'clock.

Again, please remember the rules about talking to

other people about the case and about looking up any

information with the case. With that, thank you very much

for your patience with us today.

(Jury out.)

THE COURT: Anything we need to discuss?

MR. SWEET: Nothing from the government.

MR. WEINERMAN: Not from the defense, Judge.

THE COURT: Okay. We'll see everybody in the

morning at nine o'clock. Thank you.

MS. BRITSCH: Thank you, Judge.

(The proceedings were concluded this

2nd day of May, 2018.)

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Case 6:14-cr-00482-MC Document 274 Filed 10/24/18 Page 114 of 115
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LT XXXXXXXXXXXXXX - 5/2/2018

Redirect Examination by Jeffrey Sweet

I hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and

correct transcript of the oral proceedings had in the

above-entitled matter, to the best of my skill and ability,

dated this 2nd day of May, 2018.

/s/Kristi L. Anderson

_______________________________________________

Kristi L. Anderson, Certified Realtime Reporter

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Case 6:14-cr-00482-MC Document 274 Filed 10/24/18 Page 115 of 115