BEFORE THE OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS

 STATE OF OREGON

 FOR THE

 SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION

IN THE MATTER OF THE EDUCATION

OF STUDENT AND GRANTS PASS

SCHOOL DISTRICT

 Case No.: DP 14-102

__________________________________

 HEARING

HELD ON

 TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2014

 9:05 A.M.

 1867 WILLIAMS HWY, SUITE 110

 GRANTS PASS, OREGON 97527

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1 APPEARANCES

2

3 Appearing on behalf of the Student:

4 PARENT OF STUDENT

5 IN PRO SE

6 1370 SW David Drive

7 Grants Pass, Oregon 97527

8

9 Appearing on behalf of Silver Falls School District:

10 RICHARD G. COHN-LEE, ESQUIRE

11 JOEL E. HUNGERFORD, ESQUIRE

12 The Hungerford Law Firm

13 Post Office Box 3010

14 653 South Center Street

15 Oregon City, Oregon 97045

16 503/706-7956

17 503/655-1429 Fax

18 rich@hungerfordlaw.com

19 joel@hungerfordlaw.com

20

21

22

23

24

25

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1 APPEARANCES (Continued)

2

3 Presiding:

4 A. BERNADETTE HOUSE,

5 SENIOR ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE

6 Office of Administrative Hearings

7 7995 SW Mohawk Street

8 Tualatin, OR 97062

9 503/612-4300

10 503/612-4340 Fax

11 bernadette.house@state.or.us

12

13 Also Present:

14 DOUG ELY

15 EMILY LUKA

16 PAM SCHWERDT, PH.D.

17 KIRK KOLB

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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1 HEARING

2 HELD ON

3 TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2014

4 9:05 A.M.

5

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Good morning. This is

7 Administrative Law Judge Bernadette House with the

8 Office of Administrative Hearings for the State of

9 Oregon.

10 We are convening a due-process hearing in

11 the matter of Student and Grants Pass School

12 District, and this is on DP Case 14-102. Today's

13 date is May 13th, and the hearing is set to convene

14 at 9:00. It's 9:05.

15 Ms. Yates has the names of the parties who

16 are present in the room, but I will for the purposes

17 of the record go over the -- and I used that word

18 inappropriately -- the individuals who are in the

19 room.

20 The parties that are in the room, the

21 Parent is representing himself, and that is

22 [Parent]; is that correct?

23 [PARENT]: Correct.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: And [Parent] is present.

25 And then representing the District is

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1 Richard Cohn-Lee, and Mr. Cohn-Lee has with him his

2 representative for the District, Kirk Kolb, Director

3 of Special Services.

4 And then I understand we have Joel

5 Hungerford assisting Mr. Cohn-Lee today; is that

6 correct?

7 MR. COHN-LEE: That's correct, Judge.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Is there anyone else that at

9 this point I need to be aware of? Okay.

10 The other individuals attending are here.

11 It's a public hearing at the request of the Parent.

12 So I just ask that you remain silent and don't use

13 cell phones.

14 And if there is a motion to exclude

15 witnesses, anyone that would be called later would

16 need to leave. I don't have that motion at this

17 time.

18 This motion was set pursuant to a Notice

19 of Hearing mailed to the parties, and I want to make

20 sure everyone got that. I believe that they did,

21 but a service date should have been the 5th of May,

22 2014.

23 In this matter, the prehearing conference

24 was held on -- I'm going to go back and look at the

25 -- okay. Got so many documents in this case.

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1 Prehearing in this matter was held on April 21st,

2 2014. And Mr. Cohn-Lee and the Parent participated

3 in that hearing.

4 At that time there were deadlines set, and

5 there were motions that were filed, and the rulings

6 in the case file -- there was a ruling on a motion

7 to compel, discovery, a motion to consolidate, and a

8 motion for summary determination. I'll set that out

9 in the case hearing.

10 The motion for summary determination was

11 denied. The motion to compel was granted in part,

12 denied in part. The motion to consolidate was

13 denied.

14 This hearing, the issues in this hearing

15 were set out, and they are based on the Due Process

16 Hearing Request filed March 19th, 2014:

17 Whether during the IEP meetings to address

18 the Student's IEP development -- including November

19 20th, 2013, and March 18th, 2014 -- District failed

20 to consider and provide for extended school-year

21 services to the Student in compliance with the

22 federal laws set out in the notice and the Oregon

23 Administrative Rules that implement that federal

24 law; if so, whether that failure to consider ESY at

25 that time resulted in a substantive violation of

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1 Student's rights under the IDEA, whether the

2 District prohibited discussion of ESY -- and that is

3 extended-year services -- at the November 20th,

4 2013, and March 18th, 2014, IEP meetings; and if so,

5 whether the District violated Parent's rights to

6 participate in the development, revision, and review

7 of Student's IEP under the federal rules and the

8 Oregon rules; and, if those alleged violations

9 occurred, if they resulted in a substantive

10 violation of the student's right under IDEA; and if

11 so, what is the appropriate remedy.

12 The Parent under case Schaffer vs. Weast

13 bears burden of proof, having brought the complaint,

14 and must show more likely than not that the facts

15 alleged occurred, that those facts are a violation

16 of a law or rule, and that law or rule --

17 MR. COHN-LEE: Do we want to -- given the

18 temperature -- I don't think a lot of people transit

19 this hall, Judge. I'm sorry for interrupting, but I

20 know it is going to get hot in here if we close that

21 door.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: And for purposes of the

23 record, what just happened is there are voices

24 outside. This room is small, and we may have some

25 interrupting noise. Let me ask Ms. Yates.

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1 On extraneous noise, is there a way you

2 can handle that in the written record?

3 THE REPORTER: No, there isn't. And we

4 can play it by ear, and if it gets to be too much,

5 we can close the door. But it's okay with me.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Just let me know.

7 THE REPORTER: Okay.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay?

9 And reason I'm speaking -- I sound rather

10 deliberative -- is I am actually speak at a very

11 fast speed. But what I've done is slowed down so

12 that the court reporter can hear me.

13 THE REPORTER: Thank you.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: And if I speed back up, she

15 has my permission to interrupt and say "Please,

16 excuse me, slow down." If she does that with you, I

17 would appreciate it if you would too.

18 The other thing that will happen with the

19 court reporter is we're used to using nonverbal

20 cues. We nod our heads to say "yes." "Yes" doesn't

21 show up on the record.

22 So we have to say "yes," "no," and if you

23 begin an explanation of something and you start to

24 use your hands to tell what it is, I'll ask you to

25 describe what you are doing so that it appears

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1 clearly on the record.

2 Simply, we have to create a visual verbal

3 record. All right.

4 So the Parent, as I was saying, has the

5 burden of proof. And the Parent chose to go first

6 in this case to present his case, and we have two

7 days set for this matter.

8 There's -- and I am going to paraphrase of

9 course. If I paraphrase incorrectly, the law

10 applies.

11 Essentially under the general rules of the

12 IDEA, there are procedural issues, and there are

13 procedural requirements to complying with the law.

14 If there is a procedural violation shown

15 by the standard of proof which is more likely than

16 not -- that's a 51.9 percent balancing test whether

17 a matter that's testified to did or did not occur.

18 If a procedural violation is shown, it

19 also must have resulted in a substantive violation

20 at the time we're talking about. So you can't look

21 to the future. You can't speculate what would

22 happen.

23 It has to be shown essentially that at the

24 time the Parent brought the complaint on the alleged

25 violations, that those violations -- if they're

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1 technical or procedural violations, that's a

2 substantive violation that shows that the District

3 did not provide a free and appropriate public

4 education, which is FAPE, under the Individuals With

5 Disabilities Act.

6 And since 2004, it's actually the

7 Individuals with Disabilities Improvement Act. I'm

8 the only one that gets hung up on that because I've

9 been in this a long time.

10 But it is at that time, and then whether

11 or not there is an appropriate remedy. So those

12 steps must be shown in order to prevail in this

13 case.

14 And the District has the -- if the witness

15 list -- and I do apologize. I'm going to ask the

16 parties to work with me very quickly on that. I

17 assume that the same witnesses or similar sets of

18 witnesses will be called.

19 And, [Parent], I'm going to ask you if you

20 can give me an estimate or tell me in order who

21 you're going to call and what you expect them to

22 testify to so we have an idea of where we're going

23 with this.

24 [PARENT]: Um --

25 JUDGE HOUSE: I have your witness list.

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1 THE REPORTER: [Parent], would you speak

2 up a little bit, please.

3 [PARENT]: Certainly.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Actually, [Parent], I have

5 your exhibit list. And if you can tell me where you

6 may have sent or placed that as your -- I apologize.

7 [PARENT]: It was a page right before the

8 exhibit list.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

10 [PARENT]: On the fax. I mean I don't

11 know how it all turned out in the end.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. I have -- Mr.

13 Cohn-Lee, did you receive a witness list from

14 [Parent]?

15 MR. COHN-LEE: I did, Judge, yes. I have

16 a copy here as well if you want to take a look at

17 it.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: I've got it. Thank you.

19 MR. COHN-LEE: Uh-huh.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: You're going to be calling

21 Doug Ely, and Mr. Ely will be testifying -- and you

22 also have Dorothy Jewell.

23 Normally I would have read every single

24 document in this case before today. I could not do

25 that last night. I read a lot of it, but not all of

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1 it. [Parent], how long do you expect to be

2 questioning Mr. Kolb? Do you have any idea?

3 [PARENT]: Minimum an hour.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: And is he your first

5 witness?

6 [PARENT]: No.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Who is your first witness?

8 [PARENT]: What was the name you read?

9 JUDGE HOUSE: Doug Ely and Dorothy Jewell.

10 [PARENT]: Is that it?

11 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

12 [PARENT]: Okay.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: And I assume -- this is

14 something that a pro se will frequently do, forget

15 to put themselves on the list. But you also have

16 the right to testify.

17 [PARENT]: Understood.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. So who are you

19 going to call first of those three?

20 [PARENT]: I'll call Mr. Kolb.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. And as I noted in my

22 prehearing order, because the District will also be

23 calling Mr. Kolb, you will not be restricted in your

24 case to cross-examination.

25 So I'll allow you to ask direct --

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1 questions on direct that are open-ended. You can't

2 tell the person what their answer is as to who,

3 what, when, where, and why.

4 And then Mr. Cohn-Lee will follow up, and

5 his questions may also be general. They're not

6 limited only to what you ask the witness. Normally

7 they would be, they won't be in this case.

8 We're going to go through each witness

9 that is a dual witness that way. All right?

10 [PARENT]: All right.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: And I'm trying to make sure

12 that I don't forget some basics.

13 As an administrative law judge with the

14 Office of Administrative Hearings, I'm independent

15 of either party. I'll make findings of fact after

16 this hearing, and I will apply the law as I find it

17 and then write an order that is a final order in

18 this case.

19 And the orders in these cases may be

20 appealed to either the local Oregon circuit court or

21 to the federal district court.

22 So there's two avenues of appeal, but mine

23 is a final order in this case.

24 And I do have special training. As I

25 said, I've been holding these cases since 2003.

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1 If you need anything during the hearing as

2 far as something that will make it easier for you

3 comfortwise or if there is something that I can help

4 explain the process for, please ask.

5 [PARENT]: Okay. Very good.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: But I can't help.

7 [PARENT]: Understood.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: And I can't give you legal

9 advice, and there's a very fine line. And I can't

10 give Mr. Cohn-Lee legal advice.

11 But to the extent that I can help

12 facilitate the development of a full and fair

13 inquiry, if there are some things that I need to

14 know, I will also ask questions.

15 So my job is to develop a full, fair

16 inquiry and create that record and write the

17 decision based on that.

18 Okay?

19 [PARENT]: Yes.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: And then because we have

21 limited time, if something begins to become

22 repetitive, I will call attention to that and say

23 "Is there anything new that we want to cover." And

24 then if there's not, we'll move on.

25 Okay?

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1 [PARENT]: Yes.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: And then Mr. Cohn-Lee may

3 object to a question that you ask. I would ask the

4 witness at that time to please stop, and I'll make a

5 ruling and then will either direct the witness to go

6 ahead or not answer.

7 And then you may object in the same

8 fashion. And I think we talked about that at the

9 prehearing conference. It's based on immaterial,

10 irrelevant, or unduly repetitious, or it's just

11 plain not reliable.

12 Okay? Do you remember that standard?

13 [PARENT]: I have my objections.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Okay. All

15 right. Before we get started, I do have a prehearing

16 brief from Mr. Cohn-Lee.

17 Did you have anything that you wanted to

18 say orally to me about the case before we start?

19 [PARENT]: Um --

20 JUDGE HOUSE: And it's not necessary.

21 [PARENT]: No. I had a motion. Do we do

22 that before?

23 JUDGE HOUSE: A motion at this time?

24 [PARENT]: Right.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. And the motion

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1 was not filed before today because?

2 [PARENT]: Well, I'm just moving to

3 exclude the witnesses from the room.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. The witnesses

5 from the room. Your motion is granted.

6 Mr. Kolb will not be excluded because he's

7 the representative.

8 THE WITNESS: Understood.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. And then this

10 gentleman that is leaving is?

11 MR. ELY: Doug Ely.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Mr. Ely. All right.

13 MS. JEWELL: Dorothy Jewell.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Thank you.

15 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge, could I just

16 ask quick, before Mr. Ely is excused --

17 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes --

18 MR. COHN-LEE: -- just more of a timing

19 and procedure issue? I was just wondering when

20 [Parent] anticipated calling Mr. Ely because I think

21 Mr. Ely does have a time limitation tomorrow. He

22 would need to leave by --

23 MR. ELY: By one o'clock.

24 MR. COHN-LEE: -- by one o'clock.

25 So, again, I don't know if [Parent] is

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1 anticipating calling Mr. Ely as the following

2 witness or not. We're hoping we can accommodate his

3 schedule if possible.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: If we have a feeling that

5 we're going to go longer with Mr. Kolb too, we can

6 also excuse the witnesses, and if you have a cell

7 phone, we can call you back.

8 Can we go off the record for a second just

9 for scheduling purposes.

10 (A discussion was held from 9:20 a.m. to

11 9:21 a.m.)

12 JUDGE HOUSE: We were just scheduling off

13 the record, calling the witness. [Parent] had asked

14 for Mr. Doug Ely to testify. He has just indicated

15 that he is not going to call Mr. Ely, and the

16 District is not intending to call Mr. Ely.

17 So I'm going to excuse the witness. Once

18 I do that, he won't be subject to re-call.

19 [PARENT]: Understood.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Mr. Ely, thank

21 you very much for your time to appear this morning.

22 And then Ms. Jewell would be your second

23 witness, [Parent]?

24 [PARENT]: Correct.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: So, Ms. Jewell, if you can

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1 wait, I would anticipate that it's possibly going to

2 be two hours before we need you. If there's a cell

3 phone and you could be close by, you don't have to

4 just sit outside.

5 MS. JEWELL: Should I leave my cell number

6 with you?

7 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm assuming Mr. Kolb has

8 that, but if you would leave that with us, that

9 would be great. And you can also provide it to Mr.

10 Hungerford, who can take care of the arrangements.

11 And, Ms. Erickson, because you'll be one

12 of our witnesses, you'll -- when we say a witness

13 will be recused or excused, it means that all the

14 witnesses have to step out.

15 So same rule applies to you. If you'd

16 like to go somewhere, I imagine it would probably --

17 JUDGE HOUSE: It would be all right. And

18 I'm going to ask I guess -- just a minute, Ms.

19 Erickson. We may be able to also do the same with

20 you. If we have a cell phone number, we can

21 anticipate that -- all right.

22 If you can be roughly within five to 10

23 minutes of the building, then that would be fine.

24 And if we get a better hold, we may be able to

25 release you until later.

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1 All right. Thank you.

2 MR. COHN-LEE: Thank you.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you. [Parent]?

4 [PARENT]: Ms. Picton is a witness also.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Ms. Picton is a witness for?

6 [PARENT]: The respondent.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: The District? Ms. Picton is

8 a witness.

9 MR. COHN-LEE: Although I don't believe

10 we'll be calling -- well, we can make that decision

11 at some point.

12 But for now, Ms. Picton, why don't we

13 excuse you.

14 MS. PICTON: Okay.

15 MR. COHN-LEE: My sense would be after

16 conversations with various staff, that just to save

17 time it's likely that we may not be calling Ms.

18 Picton.

19 But we'll kind of hold you in reserve, but

20 to be on the safe side, if we could also excuse you.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. So you're

22 released for right now but not permanently excused.

23 And if you can just be available if needed. All

24 right?

25 MS. PICTON: (No audible response.)

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you.

2 Okay. Then what I'm going to do, are you

3 going to go ahead and call Mr. Kolb?

4 [PARENT]: I have other questions.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

6 [PARENT]: Am I understanding that I can

7 call any of the District's witnesses on direct?

8 JUDGE HOUSE: When the District's

9 witnesses are testifying, if you did not actually

10 list them, you should be asking them cross11 examination questions.

12 If that somehow was unclear, then I will

13 allow you to ask them direct. You may not have

14 understood you needed to list them.

15 [PARENT]: I'm sorry. Bear with me. I

16 thought I read it in your latest order.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: And it may have been not as

18 clear as I would like to have said. I believe I

19 said if the witnesses are joint --

20 [PARENT]: That was it.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: And so it meant that you

22 would have had to have listed them also.

23 [PARENT]: Oh. Okay.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: And if there is an issue

25 with something that you want to ask and your not

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1 having understood that, I'd like you to tell me, or

2 you would end up having to tell me if I was unclear,

3 you didn't understand that to begin with.

4 But I meant joint witnesses would be

5 called subject to direct questioning.

6 [PARENT]: Is it my understanding that I

7 can directly question them anyway, I'm not limited

8 to cross? If Mr. Cohn-Lee, specifically in the case

9 of Ms. Erickson, calls her as a direct witness, I

10 can then directly question her as well?

11 JUDGE HOUSE: Is there a reason that you

12 didn't list her on your witness list?

13 [PARENT]: It didn't dawn on me. It was a

14 misstep.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: That would not be generally

16 appropriate. The District needed to know who you

17 were going to call on direct.

18 [PARENT]: All right.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: And that's why we asked

20 about it.

21 [PARENT]: It's all right.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: Because of the scope of the

23 questions that Mr. Cohn-Lee will ask, it probably

24 will not be a problem on your cross-examination.

25 This is not as formal as a court hearing.

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1 If it's within the scope of what was asked on

2 direct, you can ask on cross-examination.

3 [PARENT]: Okay.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Just don't bring something

5 out of left field that he didn't talk about.

6 [PARENT]: Okay.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: All right? Okay. So if

8 we're ready, we can have Mr. Kolb come --

9 MR. COHN-LEE: And actually, before we

10 begin with that, Judge, I don't know how you want to

11 handle things in this case, but did you want to

12 address the issue of exhibits now or as we progress

13 through the hearing? Either way is fine.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: If there's not -- we'll see

15 how many objections that we get, and thank you for

16 bringing that up.

17 The exhibits for the District that I have

18 in addition to the argument in brief -- [Parent], I

19 have 1 through 15 from the District.

20 MR. COHN-LEE: We actually have -- it's 1

21 through 12, and we just inserted some additional

22 tabs in case we need to insert new exhibits down the

23 road. But it's 1 through 12.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. D-12 is 1 of 1. All

25 right.

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1 Did you review those documents, [Parent]?

2 [PARENT]: Yes, Your Honor.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: Did you have any objection

4 to those documents? Provided there's some

5 foundation laid for them, and somebody will have to

6 tell me what they are and why they're relevant.

7 [PARENT]: The District's Exhibit D-8

8 through D-12.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. And what's the

10 basis for the objection?

11 [PARENT]: Irrelevant and immaterial.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Can you tell me, Mr. Cohn13 Lee --

14 [PARENT]: I don't believe they apply

15 toward determining or any evidence that would be

16 brought up for the complaint. They were after the

17 fact.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Mr. Cohn-Lee,

19 why don't we address those if you have a witness

20 that can address why these would be in here.

21 MR. COHN-LEE: Yes, and I can certainly

22 give you our initial responses to relevancy as well.

23 These documents D-8 through 12, all relate to the

24 IEP meeting that occurred on April 10th as set forth

25 in our brief.

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1 And while I agree with [Parent] that

2 today's hearing is not about the correctness of the

3 substantive decision made on April 10th regarding

4 ESY, it is certainly relevant, and the data in these

5 documents is certainly relevant as to why the

6 District felt it was necessary to wait before making

7 an ESY determination until April 10th.

8 And certainly the data for example

9 contained in D-10 -- that also contains information

10 relating to both the winter break, which is clearly

11 a relevant period according to [Parent] in this

12 case, and the period before and after the spring

13 break, which again relates to the reasonableness of

14 why the District decided in November that it needed

15 to wait across two break periods before gathering

16 sufficient data and accurate data concerning ESY

17 recoupment and regression.

18 So I think that information is directly

19 relevant to the issue, really the issue of timing I

20 think that's at issue in this case.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. I'm going to

22 defer ruling on those until the written order,

23 unless it becomes obvious to me, and I may exclude

24 them or not as I get testimony.

25 But at this point we'll go ahead and defer

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1 ruling. So Exhibits D-1 through 7 are admitted, and

2 D-8 through 12 I have a standing objection I have

3 not ruled on.

4 (Whereupon, District Exhibits D-1 through

5 D-7, respectively, were offered and admitted into

6 evidence.)

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Anything else? All right.

8 So that's the District's exhibits.

9 Mr. Cohn-Lee, the exhibits that you

10 received from the petitioner --

11 [PARENT]: Excuse me, Your Honor?

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

13 [PARENT]: I have an amended exhibit list

14 based on the exhibits I received only last Friday.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

16 [PARENT]: Or I received them past the due

17 date --

18 JUDGE HOUSE: They're the --

19 [PARENT]: -- because of the motion.

20 THE REPORTER: One at a time, please.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm sorry. My apologies.

22 I'm going to clarify I think what you're

23 referring to. You received documents in response to

24 your motion to compel.

25 [PARENT]: Correct.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: I gave you permission to

2 submit those late --

3 [PARENT]: Correct --

4 JUDGE HOUSE: -- up until and at the time

5 of hearing. You're saying that you have an amended

6 exhibit list that includes those documents?

7 [PARENT]: Yes.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Could you hand a

9 copy to Mr. Cohn-Lee and to myself.

10 [PARENT]: They're the new S-25, S-26, and

11 S-27.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: The exhibits themselves were

13 provided to the District prior to hearing; correct?

14 [PARENT]: The other -- the other --

15 everything else up through S-20 -- S-24 was provided

16 in advance.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: We have two additional

18 exhibits --

19 [PARENT]: Or three.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: Three? I'm sorry. There

21 was another one under there. Okay.

22 So I have the amended exhibit list through

23 S-27. And the copies that are being presented now

24 are S-25 -- which is labeled in your exhibit as

25 "Edmark Data"?

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1 [PARENT]: Yes, Your Honor.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: -- S-26, two pages, labeled

3 -- and it's a different date, 2014 date, of Edmark

4 Data. And then S-27 is one page, and it's a 9/16 of

5 2013 "Edmark Data"; is that correct?

6 [PARENT]: Yes, Your Honor.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Mr. Cohn-Lee, would you have

8 a look at those?

9 MR. COHN-LEE: I've completed my review,

10 Judge, and if I may respond.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. We're going to

12 have your objections. Do you want to start with

13 those documents in particular or --

14 MR. COHN-LEE: Sure. We can do that.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: Or should we just start with

16 the beginning?

17 MR. COHN-LEE: No, we can start with

18 these.

19 First of all, I would note that the

20 District actually did not get these to [Parent]

21 late. But we actually did provide [Parent] the

22 documents I believe on the day that was the due date

23 for the submission of exhibits.

24 So I have never seen these previously

25 before as part of [Parent's] exhibit presentation;

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1 and so I would object on that grounds. I think

2 submitting additional exhibits the day of hearing is

3 untimely.

4 Certainly if [Parent] was going to use

5 these, at a minimum I think they should have been

6 provided to me as District legal counsel at least at

7 some point before hearing, even if that was a

8 business day before hearing.

9 This is the first time I have seen these.

10 Accordingly, I have had no time to integrate these

11 or apprise witnesses as to their use by [Parent] as

12 part of his exhibits.

13 Beyond that, S-25, 1 and 2, I think some

14 of these are irrelevant as they do not necessarily

15 track the Student's IEP goals.

16 And as we explained in our prehearing

17 brief, ESY data is collected exclusively according

18 to the Student's then-existing IEP goals and

19 objectives, not generalized data. And that's what

20 S-26 is.

21 Regarding S-27, if you'll note on S-27 at

22 the top of the page, this is evidently a review of

23 information at a two-week progress meeting.

24 But the critical factor here is that this

25 meeting took place on September 16th, 2013.

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1 The evidence will demonstrate that at this

2 time, [Student], the student, was operating under

3 [Student's] old IEP that [Student] had received from

4 the prior school district in Hawaii and that in

5 November [Student's] IEP was substantially changed

6 by the Grants Pass School District and the team

7 developed a brand new IEP with different goals.

8 Accordingly, this document, which could by

9 definition relate only to the prior old IEP, is

10 completely irrelevant to the issue of whether or not

11 a timely ESY determination was made for this summer

12 because for this summer the operative IEP in place

13 was the one that was developed on November 20th,

14 2013, which is after this data was discussed.

15 That's for those exhibits. And I can

16 proceed with the other exhibits, or we can do these

17 piece by piece.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. I am going to at

19 this point again reserve ruling on those documents.

20 [Parent], I'll allow you to tell me when you

21 introduce those documents why they're relevant to

22 address the District's objection.

23 [PARENT]: Certainly.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: And we'll handle it that way

25 rather than have you try to give me testimony right

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1 now on those documents.

2 Okay?

3 [PARENT]: Okay.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: So you need to come back to

5 those to address that objection.

6 And, Mr. Cohn-Lee, on the Parent's other

7 exhibits, do you have specific exhibits that you

8 have objections to?

9 MR. COHN-LEE: Yes, Judge.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: Give me the numbers that you

11 have objection to.

12 MR. COHN-LEE: Sure. The first objection

13 starting from the beginning of [Parent's] exhibit

14 binders deals with Exhibit S-6.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: I have duplicate copies.

16 MR. COHN-LEE: Just let me know when

17 you're ready.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: I've got it.

19 MR. COHN-LEE: If you look at S-6, it's

20 apparent given there's -- I have yellow highlighting

21 in my copy from [Parent], but you may have grey

22 highlighting on yours.

23 There's a highlighted provision that I

24 assume [Parent] is trying to use this Exhibit for.

25 And I gather that [Parent] is going to be

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1 introducing this to try to suggest that the District

2 doesn't or systemically doesn't offer ESY services

3 to other students other than [Student].

4 As you've ruled previously before, the

5 central issue and the only issue for this hearing is

6 whether or not the District acted in accordance with

7 IDEA and ESY provisions with regard to this student.

8 Evidence regarding what was or was not

9 provided to other students is utterly irrelevant.

10 As I will discuss regarding another

11 exhibit, evidence of what other school districts

12 outside this school district do with other students

13 is completely irrelevant, and such information

14 should be stricken, or the whole exhibit should be

15 excluded.

16 I don't have an objection to the remaining

17 text in this, but it appears to me the sole issue or

18 the sole reason for its introduction is this

19 highlighted language, and I believe that's

20 completely irrelevant.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent], I can see things -

22 - I'm going to ask if you want to wait to present

23 your case to address this objection to the document.

24 Do you want to tell me what your response

25 is now, or do you want to wait until you introduce

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1 the document?

2 [PARENT]: I can tell you now.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: Just tell me what -- if

4 you're not using this -- as I had stated, you can't

5 show generally a District practice. It has to be as

6 pertaining to your student and why this would be

7 relevant.

8 And if you can, just briefly tell me why

9 you think it will be.

10 [PARENT]: I have no response.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: What I'm going to do is wait

12 because, Mr. Cohn-Lee, I do know in one way if the

13 Parent argues the case or is going to show a set of

14 evidence that this will be relevant, it's relevant

15 as to whether this Student either had a history or

16 needed ESY in a particular way. And that only data

17 of the Student didn't appear from nowhere. The only

18 place that data would show up is in the history of

19 the student.

20 So it's not as if we can ignore any

21 information about that Student prior to that

22 November 20th meeting. And I will not exclude it on

23 that basis.

24 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge, it depends too

25 on the purpose for which [Parent] tries to introduce

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1 that, but I guess I would ask that we wait and

2 reserve admission of that document because I think

3 it's up to [Parent] to try to make that argument.

4 But if it's solely to say a general

5 practice in the District, I would concur with you

6 that that is irrelevant.

7 I think the District also would take the

8 position that prior history -- and we will cover

9 this with Mr. Kolb and our witnesses.

10 Prior history actually would be legally

11 irrelevant because ESY data-gathering is dictated by

12 the student's current IEP.

13 Therefore, whether or not a student

14 received ESY in the past under a completely

15 different set of IEP goals and objectives is either

16 irrelevant or it has limited relevancy.

17 And we believe the testimony in this case

18 will show that the Student's IEP was changed in

19 November and that the data gathering that occurred

20 with regard to this summer had to be following those

21 goals and objectives.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. That was a mixed

23 argument on some issues, and what I'm going to hear

24 from Mr. Kolb won't be arguments of law, it will be

25 telling of facts I would assume.

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1 MR. COHN-LEE: And also the District

2 policy, which is based on the law.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: You can tell me about the

4 District policy. Okay. All right. So I will

5 reserve ruling on S-6.

6 Was there another document on the same --

7 MR. COHN-LEE: Yes. On the same -- I'm

8 going to jump around a little and these other --

9 [PARENT]: Excuse me. Oh. I'm sorry.

10 May I request a two-minute recess?

11 JUDGE HOUSE: Sure. We can go off the

12 record, and let's just do it for five minutes. If

13 anyone needs a rest room break, please take one now.

14 (A recess was taken from 9:41 a.m. to 9:49

15 a.m.)

16 JUDGE HOUSE: What I think might be more

17 efficient is that as -- [Parent], at some point

18 you're going to tell me why these documents need to

19 be admitted.

20 At that time we'll speak to the objection,

21 and then I'll either rule at that time or I'll rule

22 in the order. And so -- unless you have specific

23 ones you do not object to.

24 MR. COHN-LEE: Well, it probably makes

25 sense to just go through them, but there is one that

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1 was in a similar vein.

2 There is one other exhibit that I think

3 kind of stands out along a similar vein of what we

4 were just talking about, which is Exhibit S-6. If

5 you turn to Exhibit S-18.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. Yes.

7 MR. COHN-LEE: Exhibit S-18 appears to be

8 an email from Leah Dean, who again is an employee

9 from a completely different school district -- it's

10 the Eagle Point School District -- to [Parent].

11 And [Parent] had asked them for their

12 total student enrollment, number of students on an

13 IEP, and number of students receiving ESY services,

14 and Ms. Dean again responding generally as to the

15 number of students receiving either ESY or what she

16 calls a "summer school program" and the number of

17 students on an IEP within that subgroup.

18 Again, this is completely irrelevant, what

19 another school district does.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: I understand the objection.

21 [Parent], why would this be relevant to your

22 student?

23 [PARENT]: I have no objection to his

24 objection.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: In other words, you withdraw

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1 the exhibit?

2 [PARENT]: I withdraw the exhibit.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: So S-18 has been withdrawn.

4 (Whereupon, Exhibit S-18 was withdrawn

5 from evidence.)

6 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge, the remaining

7 exhibits, we can address them as [Parent] moves to

8 introduce them as evidence. I think that probably

9 would be more efficient.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. And I'll just

11 clarify, and there's a very fine line, and there

12 will be objections -- and actually if it comes to

13 that point, Mr. Cohn-Lee, I'll just give you a

14 standing objection on that.

15 I suspect that the evidence in this case

16 will walk a line between what should be covered

17 under the stated complaint, which is an allegation

18 that the District is not complying in general to the

19 requirements, and what is appropriate for a due

20 process hearing, which is whether or not the

21 District in this case provided FAPE to this student

22 as required under IDEA.

23 So there were elements of both in your

24 complaint, and I parsed those out.

25 If it starts during the hearing to go

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1 towards elements that allege a general failure to

2 comply, that won't be allowed in the hearing. But

3 information that shows that the District didn't

4 provide FAPE to your student would be allowed.

5 So that's just the line that we're going

6 to be walking during this hearing, and I have

7 already foreseen that. So we'll just deal with it

8 as it comes up.

9 [PARENT]: Okay.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay? All right. Are you

11 ready to call your first witness?

12 [PARENT]: Just procedurally, when I want

13 to present an Exhibit, am I moving to present an

14 Exhibit?

15 JUDGE HOUSE: No, just tell me we're going

16 to look at "S" whatever.

17 [PARENT]: Okay.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: And then I'll ask Mr. Cohn19 Lee if he has any objections.

20 I understand that you have offered all of

21 the exhibits that you have given me. So they're

22 offered in evidence at this point with the exception

23 of S-18.

24 If there's another one, something that

25 comes up that you want to withdraw, you can do that.

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1 Otherwise, all the exhibits that you sent are

2 considered offered at this point. I won't make you

3 go through that formality.

4 Okay?

5 [PARENT]: Okay.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: But Mr. Cohn-Lee will

7 generally probably do it because he's used to doing

8 it. He may or may not object to the exhibit. All

9 right.

10 (Whereupon, Parent's Exhibits S-1 through

11 S-17, respectively, and Exhibits S-19 through S-27,

12 respectively, were offered into evidence.)

13 JUDGE HOUSE: So may we call Mr. Kolb?

14 [PARENT]: Yes.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: Mr. Kolb, if you would

16 (indicating). I'll try to move my binders.

17 THE REPORTER: Here (indicating)?

18 JUDGE HOUSE: No, it's all right. I'll

19 find a spot. And I'll have it a little bit more

20 organized by the time we get back after the next

21 break.

22 Okay. Mr. Kolb, first thing I'm going to

23 do is swear you in.

24 (The witness is sworn.)

25 JUDGE HOUSE: Would you please state and

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1 spell your first and last name for the

2 transcriptionist.

3 THE WITNESS: Kirk Kolb, K-i-r-k K-o-l-b.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: And, Mr. Kolb, [Parent] is

5 going to ask you questions initially. And then if

6 there are objections, I would ask that you wait

7 until I rule on it and either answer or not answer.

8 And Mr. Cohn-Lee may have questions, and I may have

9 questions.

10 If Ms. Yates indicates that we need to

11 speak slower, louder, or anything, I've asked her to

12 just go ahead and let us know. So she'll interrupt,

13 and then let's go.

14 Okay?

15 THE WITNESS: Okay.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. [Parent], go

17 ahead, please.

18 KIRK KOLB, called as a witness on behalf of the

19 Student, having been first duly sworn, was examined

20 and testified as follows:

21 DIRECT EXAMINATION

22 BY [PARENT]:

23 Q. Mr. Kolb, what position do you hold with

24 the District?

25 A. I'm currently the director of special

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1 services.

2 Q. And, Mr. Kolb, were you present at the IEP

3 meetings on November 20th, 2013, and March 18th,

4 2014?

5 A. I was present at both of those meetings.

6 Q. And under what capacity were you at those

7 two meetings?

8 A. I was -- ultimately became the District

9 rep.

10 Q. So you were the District representative at

11 both those meetings?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. Were you there under any other capacity?

14 A. As a -- somebody who supported [Student]

15 over the summer, I felt I could contribute in that

16 fashion.

17 Q. All right. You say that you supported

18 [Student] over the summer.

19 Were you ever a teacher for [Student]?

20 A. Over the summer, technically, no.

21 Q. Did you ever provide direct -- did you

22 ever provide direct instruction to [Student]?

23 A. No.

24 [PARENT]: All right. I'd like to

25 reference Exhibit S-3. And I'm going to ask some

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1 questions about it, and I have a copy if Mr. Kolb

2 would like to look at it while I'm referencing it.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

4 MR. COHN-LEE: Yeah, he needs to look at

5 it.

6 [PARENT]: This is a copy just for him.

7 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay.

8 BY [PARENT]:

9 Q. Mr. Kolb, do you recognize this document?

10 A. I do.

11 Q. What is this document?

12 A. This is -- it appears to be the guidance

13 from our special ed handbook regarding the extended

14 school year for our special ed staff.

15 Q. And do you have any -- do you have any

16 idea how long this document has been in existence?

17 A. Since -- this particular document, in

18 August of 2013.

19 Q. So --

20 A. It was revised in August of 2013, is the

21 most recent copy, or version.

22 Q. And are you aware of who revised this

23 document for the District?

24 A. I did.

25 Q. And what did you base your revisions upon?

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1 A. Based it on the OARs.

2 Q. Did you as well base it on the federal

3 regulations or -- that's it. Did you as well base

4 it on federal regulations?

5 A. The federal regulations were reviewed as

6 part of the process for revising it, yes.

7 Q. So is it fair to say that when you revised

8 this document in August of 2013, you based this

9 document on the OARs -- which is the Oregon

10 Administrative Rules?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. -- and the federal guidelines of IDEA?

13 A. And the federal guidelines were reviewed

14 as part of the process.

15 Q. Would you say that you are very familiar

16 with the OARs?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Would you say that you are very familiar

19 with the federal regulations?

20 A. Not as familiar.

21 [PARENT]: Okay. I'm going to reference

22 this document now.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: Let me ask if -- Mr. Cohn24 Lee, any objection to S-3?

25 MR. COHN-LEE: No, Judge.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: S-3 is admitted.

2 (Whereupon, Parent Exhibit S-3 was

3 admitted into evidence.)

4 BY [PARENT]:

5 Q. Under "General Guidelines," No. 2, it

6 states, "ESY is intended to maintain a skill or

7 behavior directly related to one or more IEP goals."

8 Was that existing prior to the August, or

9 was that something that you revised in August?

10 A. I don't recall.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. I don't have the prior document in front

13 of me.

14 Q. Based on your knowledge of OARs -- (to

15 Judge House) and I'd like to reference my Exhibit S16 4 at this time. And I have a copy for Mr. Kolb as

17 well.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Mister --

19 [PARENT]: And she has a copy.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: I do have a copy.

21 THE WITNESS: Are we done with this?

22 [PARENT]: Oh, no.

23 THE WITNESS: Okay.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Just a moment. Mr. Cohn-Lee

25 hasn't objected, but this appears to be the Oregon

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1 Administrative Rule, and you have also ODE guidance

2 added.

3 Okay. For purposes of the record, that

4 portion of S-4, I'm just going to go ahead and

5 exclude it. It's not that it can't be referenced

6 right now. It is not technically evidence. It's

7 the law.

8 The law can be argued. You can refer to

9 it. We'll look at it. It's not a document in

10 evidence.

11 So as far as your just talking about it,

12 that's fine. It's not part of the evidentiary

13 record except for that portion of page 2 which

14 appears to reference ODE guidance regarding ESY.

15 Okay?

16 [PARENT]: Okay. I understand. So if

17 it's the law, it's not an exhibit. It's just the

18 law. But if I have a copy of it because I want to

19 make reference to it and ask a question, it's okay

20 to provide it?

21 JUDGE HOUSE: That's fine. So S-4, page

22 1, is excluded. S-4, page 2, paragraph beginning

23 "ODE guidance regarding ESY" and down -- let me ask

24 Mr. Cohn-Lee, do you have any objection to that

25 portion of this exhibit?

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1 MR. COHN-LEE: I do not, Judge. And I can

2 ask questions of Mr. Kolb that will clarify actually

3 how this document integrates with the first page

4 that I think will clarify this later.

5 It's in our exhibit book as well as an

6 integrated document. But we can address it at that

7 time.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. And if in another

9 context it's not a document [Parent] created but

10 it's one document that the District uses in this

11 combined format, it may be that it's relevant.

12 And so it may not be excluded. I may

13 change the ruling if that's what it is.

14 But let me ask Mr. Kolb the question.

15 Is this -- or actually, [Parent], where

16 did this document come from?

17 [PARENT]: It came, exactly as you stated,

18 from the District as part of a packet regarding

19 their ESY procedures and guidelines, and I can

20 clarify this to --

21 JUDGE HOUSE: That's all right. I'm going

22 to reverse my ruling. Excuse me. It's just

23 normally the law is not part of a record.

24 To the extent that this is a document that

25 the District provided and that they rely on, it is

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1 admissible.

2 So it doesn't mean it's the law. It may

3 even have typos. It may not be correct. It's

4 something they rely on, and that's what it's

5 admitted for.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. Go ahead and ask him

7 about it now.

8 BY [PARENT]:

9 Q. Mr. Kolb, did you create this document?

10 A. This was copied off the Oregon Department

11 of Education's web site.

12 Q. Okay. And to get back to S-3, who is this

13 provided to, this document, as a general matter of

14 course?

15 A. All of our special education providers.

16 Q. One time? Every year? Every time it's

17 amended or --

18 A. Every time it's amended or revised.

19 Q. And when is Exhibit S-4 provided to your

20 employees?

21 A. It would also be included with this

22 whenever -- whenever that guidance documents are

23 revised.

24 Q. And you stated earlier -- I'm sorry. I'm

25 going to backtrack.

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1 Are these the same documents that you

2 would normally provide a parent?

3 A. Upon request.

4 Q. Did you provide these documents to me as a

5 parent?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. To the best of your knowledge -- and I

8 think you stated it previously -- referencing

9 Exhibit S-4, OAR 581-015-2065, you basically just

10 copied and pasted that out of I would assume some

11 state database or state web site?

12 A. This was pulled off the Oregon Department

13 of Education's web site.

14 Q. Okay. As a copy, or did you transcribe

15 it?

16 A. As a copy.

17 Q. So to the --

18 A. Copy and paste.

19 Q. Sorry. So to the best of your knowledge

20 then, this is the actual Oregon Administrative Rule?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Okay. All right. To get back to Exhibit

23 S-3, No. 2, under "General Guidelines," "ESY is

24 intended to maintain a skill or behavior directly

25 related to one or more IEP goals" -- how did you

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1 come up with No. 2?

2 A. I don't recall if I came up with that or

3 that was in prior guidance.

4 Q. Or what? I'm sorry?

5 A. Or if it existed prior to -- I don't

6 recall the revisions that were made on this

7 document.

8 Q. Okay. Looking at No. 2 and referencing

9 Exhibit S-4, the OARs applying to extended school

10 year, do you find anywhere in the OARs where it

11 would provide that as law, that ESY is intended to

12 maintain a skill or behavior directly related to one

13 or more IEP goals?

14 And go ahead, take your time to review it.

15 A. To the best of my ability to interpret the

16 law, I believe it's Section (4). And the purpose of

17 extending the school year is to maintain the child's

18 learning skills or behavior, not the teaching of new

19 skills or behaviors.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: Can you be more clear when

21 you say "Section (4)"?

22 THE WITNESS: Section (4) of the OAR. And

23 I'm not an expert on referencing the law.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: So you're reading from S-4,

25 OAR 581-015- --

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1 THE WITNESS: Correct --

2 JUDGE HOUSE: -- -2065, Section (4)?

3 THE WITNESS: Correct.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

5 Go ahead, [Parent].

6 BY [PARENT]:

7 Q. So to clarify, you believe that the

8 Section (4) is just referenced, which states "The

9 purpose of" -- I'm going to abbreviate -- "ESY

10 services is the maintenance of the child's learning

11 skills or behavior, not the teaching of new skills

12 or behavior," relates to your general guidance

13 stating that "ESY is intended to maintain a skill or

14 behavior directly related to one or more IEP goals"?

15 A. Can you state that again?

16 Q. I'm trying to get out of you why you feel

17 -- let me restate this whole question. Okay?

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. What I'm trying to get from you is how did

20 you determine that in your "General Guidelines" of

21 "ESY is intended to maintain a skill or behavior is

22 directly related to one or more IEP goals" -- how do

23 you get to there from paragraph (4) under OAR 581-

24 015-2065, "The purpose of extended school year is

25 the maintenance of the child's skills or behavior,

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1 not the teaching of new skills or behavior"?

2 I'm trying to -- why do --

3 A. I'm going to do my best at this. Extended

4 school year is intended for students who are

5 eligible under IDEA.

6 The IEP is drafted as a comprehensive

7 document to address all of the student's needs,

8 identify -- skills and behaviors are determined by

9 the IEP team. Therefore, we collect data on those

10 skills and behaviors.

11 If new behaviors or skills need to be

12 introduced, we would expect that to happen through

13 the IEP process.

14 Q. Would you agree that nowhere in the OAR,

15 specifically paragraph (4) that you referenced, does

16 it state anything relating to IEP goals? Would you

17 agree?

18 MR. COHN-LEE: Well, I'm going to object

19 because I think it misstates the clear text of the

20 evidence in S-4.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Actually I think that's a

22 fair question if you're looking at Section (4). The

23 question would be: Do you see the reference in

24 Section (4) of the OAR-cited provisions that require

25 the language that the District used in stating

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1 "maintain a skill or behavior directly related to

2 one or more IEP goals" -- is that language in the

3 provision.

4 MR. COHN-LEE: And actually I think

5 [Parent] said in particular (4) but in the OARs in

6 general as well. I mean I can bring this out

7 through my examination, but the text of the document

8 in fact does have a reference to the IEP.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

10 But, [Parent], when you said -- did you

11 mean in the OARs in general, in the OARs provided in

12 specific numbers --

13 [PARENT]: I'll ask it as two separate

14 questions.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Go ahead,

16 please.

17 BY [PARENT]:

18 Q. Do you see a reference to -- do you see a

19 reference that ESY is intended to maintain skills or

20 behaviors only related to IEP goals as you noted in

21 No. 2 of your General Guidelines in Section (4) of

22 the OARs?

23 A. Not specifically in Section (4).

24 Q. Then I'll ask the next question.

25 Do you see anywhere in the OARs from

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1 Exhibit 4 where it would support your No. 2 General

2 Guideline that "ESY is intended to maintain a skill

3 or behavior related to only IEP goals"?

4 A. I would say that in Section (7), for the

5 purposes of this rule, "extended school ESY" means

6 "special education-related services that fall under

7 the category of Subsection (B) in accordance with

8 the child's IEP."

9 Q. So are you suggesting that the only thing

10 that matters in a child's IEP are the goals?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Do you agree that Section (7) of the OARs

13 that reads "For the purpose of this rule, 'ESY'

14 means 'special education and related services,'"

15 that Subsection (B) in accordance with the child's

16 IEP could have to do with anything that's in the

17 child's IEP, including FAPE?

18 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm going to object to the

19 term and use "FAPE."

20 [PARENT]: Free Appropriate Public

21 Education.

22 MR. COHN-LEE: I think that's vague.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: I think the question is

24 overbroad. So I'm going to sustain the objection.

25 [PARENT]: All right. Let me reask it.

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1 Q. So it's your contention that your General

2 Guideline or the District's General Guideline No. 2,

3 "ESY is intended to maintain a skill or behavior

4 directly related to one or more IEP goal," is in

5 accordance is the ESY OARs because in Section (7),

6 paragraph (B), it states that "'Extended school

7 year' means 'special education and related services

8 that are provided in accordance with the child's

9 IEP'"?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. So to clarify, you go from what the OARs

12 are stating -- which we just covered, that "'ESY'

13 means 'special education and related services that

14 are provided to a child with a disability in

15 accordance with the child's IEP'" -- using that and

16 using "The purpose of extended school year is the

17 maintenance of the child's learning skills or

18 behavior, not the teaching of new skills or

19 behavior" -- using both of those sections of the OAR

20 as a basis, you're maintaining that ESY is intended

21 to maintain a skill or behavior directly related to

22 one or more IEP goals?

23 A. Additionally, the guidance -- excuse me --

24 the OAR references to evaluate regression and

25 recoupment -- those are identified through IEP goals

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1 and objectives, hence, affording us a target to make

2 those determinations.

3 Q. Since you brought that up, maybe you could

4 point out to me in the OAR where it states

5 "regression and recoupment" -- how did you put it?

6 (To the reporter) Could you read back his

7 answer, please.

8 THE REPORTER: Sure can.

9 (The record was read by the reporter as

10 follows:

11 ANSWER: "Additionally, the guidance --

12 excuse me -- the OAR references to evaluate

13 regression and recoupment -- those are identified

14 through IEP goals and objectives, hence, affording

15 us a target to make those determinations.")

16 [PARENT]: Thank you.

17 THE REPORTER: You're welcome.

18 BY [PARENT]:

19 Q. So you're clear on how you answered that

20 question?

21 A. (No audible response.)

22 Q. Could you explain to me --

23 A. Yes, I believe I am understanding.

24 Q. I know you nodded. I didn't catch it.

25 So could you point out to me in the OARs

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1 where it states what you just said, that regression

2 and recoupment must be based on IEP goals?

3 A. So since we must -- we must base our ESY

4 determination on regression and recoupment, the IEP

5 is written to identify the needs of the student as

6 defined in goals and objectives.

7 Those are the data we collect to make ESY

8 determinations.

9 Q. Didn't answer the --

10 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to ask a question.

11 I apologize.

12 Did you say since we must base the ESY on

13 regression and recoupment?

14 THE WITNESS: Excuse me. Since the

15 criteria must include regression and recoupment data

16 according to the OAR Subsection (6). There is

17 usually five.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

19 [PARENT]: Well, I can't question him on

20 the "must," but I can clarify that.

21 Q. I'm going to repeat the question because I

22 don't believe I got an answer.

23 Could you please point out anywhere

24 specifically that OAR states that you must base

25 regression and recoupment on IEP goals?

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1 A. The term "IEP goals" is not cited directly

2 in the OAR.

3 Q. Okay. No. 2 under your "General

4 Guidelines," "ESY is intended to maintain a skill or

5 behavior directly related to one or more IEP goals"

6 -- as far as you're concerned as the director of

7 special education, that is an interpretation of the

8 OARs that you utilized as a General Guideline?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. And is it your -- let me rephrase that.

11 Do you feel that number -- "feel" is not

12 correct either.

13 Do you believe No. 2 under the "General

14 Guidelines" to be in alignment with the OARs?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Okay. I'm going to now reference -- it

17 was my Exhibit S-2, but it's not an exhibit is my

18 understanding. It's just federal regulation.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. We can look at

20 what you've marked as S-2, and you can reference it

21 again. It won't be a document in evidence. Yes.

22 [PARENT]: Okay.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: But please provide a copy to

24 the witness.

25 BY [PARENT]:

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1 Q. Mr. Kolb, on a copy of the federal

2 regulations that I just provided you, I'm looking

3 directly at 300.106, "Extended School Year

4 Services."

5 Are you with me on that on the top right?

6 A. I am.

7 Q. Are you familiar with this part of the

8 regulation?

9 A. I am mildly familiar.

10 Q. You told me earlier that your General

11 Guidelines for extended school year are based on the

12 OARs and the federal regulations?

13 A. Yes. The federal regulations inform our

14 guidance as well.

15 Q. Do you feel as a matter of fact that the

16 Oregon Administrative Rules supersede federal

17 regulations?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Okay. Do you see the federal regulations

20 as being as important as the Oregon Administrative

21 Rules?

22 A. I see the federal regulations, because

23 it's IDEA, is going supersede state guidance is my

24 understanding of the law.

25 Q. All right. In Section 106, and this is

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1 just -- 300.106, pardon me, and this is just a broad

2 almost definition of extended school year services,

3 do you see anywhere in "Extended School Year

4 Services" under 300.106 that might support your

5 General Guideline No. 2, where it states, "ESY is

6 intended to maintain a skill or behavior directly

7 related to one or more IEP goal"?

8 A. I'm going to have to read through the

9 document --

10 Q. Take your time --

11 A. -- once or twice here.

12 (Reading document.)

13 I believe in general that support or District

14 guidance -- let's see how to state this. I believe

15 it's Section (3), Subsection (1), Subsection -- I

16 don't know how to say -- (ii), in accordance with

17 the child's IEP as well as to meet the standards of

18 the SEA, um --

19 Q. I'm going to reask --

20 A. -- that first view. I believe those two

21 elements of the federal law support the guidance

22 that we have as a District.

23 Q. Okay. Now, to clarify, I'm not asking you

24 about the guidance. I'm asking do you see anywhere

25 in Section 300.106 where you could interpret this to

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1 state that ESY is intended to maintain a skill or

2 behavior directly related to one or more IEP goal?

3 A. So as I stated, we're required to consider

4 ESY in accordance with the child's IEP and meet the

5 standards of the State Education Agency.

6 Q. In 300.106, Section (2), it states that

7 "extended school year services must be provided on

8 an individual basis in accordance with 300.320

9 through 324" and that "the services are necessary

10 for the provision of FAPE to the child."

11 How do you interpret No. 2, Section (2) of

12 300.106?

13 A. IEP team determines student by student

14 that -- whether or not ESY is necessary for FAPE.

15 Q. Would you agree that it would be based on

16 Sections 300.320 through Sections 300.324 of the

17 federal regulation?

18 A. Excuse me?

19 Q. Would you agree based on what you just

20 said that, in determining the need and based on the

21 IEP, that you would use Sections 300.320 through

22 300.324 as guidance?

23 A. I'm not familiar -- I can't recite for you

24 the content or subject area of those two federal

25 statutes or, whatever you call them.

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1 Q. I have a copy of them, and I'm going to

2 give them to you, but I'm just asking if you agree

3 at this point, not whether you can, you know --

4 A. I can't agree that the District guidance

5 represents those without those in front of me.

6 Q. That wasn't the question. The question

7 was: Does this federal regulation require you to

8 provide ESY if the child's IEP team determines on an

9 individual basis in accordance with 320 through 324?

10 A. Yes. That's how the federal --

11 Q. Would you agree with that?

12 A. I agree with the federal law.

13 Q. Okay.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: Please, if you can, don't

15 talk over each other.

16 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: I do it too.

18 [PARENT]: My S-5 is just additional

19 federal regulations, inclusive of 300.320 through

20 300.324.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Do you have a

22 copy?

23 [PARENT]: I have a copy for Mr. Kolb.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. For clarity of

25 the record, S-2 is not admitted because it's a copy

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1 of the law, and S-4 to the extent that it's a copy

2 of the law is not admitted. We're just using it for

3 reference.

4 [PARENT]: S-5, Your Honor.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: S-5. Thank you.

6 BY [PARENT]:

7 Q. Mr. Kolb, if you could, turn to page 4 of

8 4, the last page in that packet that I just handed

9 you.

10 A. (Witness complies.)

11 Q. 300.324 of the Federal Regulations for

12 Development, Review, and Revision of IEP. 106 --

13 300.106 references 324 as how you determine if ESY

14 is necessary based on 324.

15 Would you concur with that statement?

16 A. I would concur that 324 is embedded in the

17 required part of 106.

18 Q. Thank you. I'm going to give you a few

19 moments to go through 300.324. And it just takes

20 that first column. And I believe if you go through

21 just that first column, everything past Section (4)

22 is agreements, amendments, and changes.

23 Well, I'm going to give you a few moments.

24 Okay? And you can look at as much as of it as you

25 want.

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1 But what I'm looking for is I'm going to ask

2 you the same question as I did regarding the OARs,

3 is: Do you see any section in 300.324 that would

4 support the General Guidelines as enumerated in No.

5 2, that ESY is intended to maintain a skill or

6 behavior directly related to one or more IEP goal?

7 A. I'm probably going to ask you to restate

8 the question after reviewing this.

9 Q. Okay.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: Off the record for just a

11 moment, please.

12 (A discussion is held off the record.)

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Housekeeping matter

14 discussed. [Parent], in the interest of having us

15 move a little faster, I think that your general

16 question is you're asking the basis of this

17 witness's knowledge based on his understanding of

18 the law whether or not the District is in compliance

19 with the federal laws and rules in its policy. And

20 you're asking very specific provisions.

21 But generally you could just ask that, but

22 the argument as to whether it is or is not is

23 actually going to be a legal issue.

24 The reason I've allowed the questions is

25 that he is an individual that is responsible as I

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1 understand it for the policy, revised policy.

2 So without going through to say "In each

3 case, do you see that language," you could just ask

4 the general question and then argue legally later

5 that it is or isn't in there.

6 [PARENT]: Okay.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Does that make sense?

8 [PARENT]: Yes. Like in post-hearing?

9 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes. As long as you have

10 his answer as to whether or not he believes it does

11 support it, that's sufficient. Whether it does or

12 does not is as a matter of law, question of law.

13 [PARENT]: Okay. So when would I address

14 that, or would that be up to the discretion of the

15 judge?

16 JUDGE HOUSE: That's legal argument. You

17 can do it as closing. It's something I have to look

18 at anyway.

19 [PARENT]: Okay. And we're doing a

20 written closing; correct?

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

22 [PARENT]: Okay.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: So I'm not saying that you

24 can't ask any more questions. But I think that what

25 --

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1 [PARENT]: It's okay --

2 JUDGE HOUSE: -- you're doing is -- you've

3 made the point.

4 [PARENT]: So I'll rephrase the question.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Go ahead.

6 BY [PARENT]:

7 Q. Do you, Mr. Kolb, believe that General

8 Guideline No. 2, ESY, is intended to maintain a

9 skill or behavior directly related to one or more

10 IEP goal --

11 A. Yes --

12 Q. -- is --

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Sorry. Just a moment. (To

14 the witness) He just read. He hasn't asked a

15 question.

16 THE WITNESS: Okay.

17 BY [PARENT]:

18 Q. -- is supported by Federal Regulation

19 300.324, that development, review, and revision of

20 an IEP?

21 A. I believe it is supported by federal law.

22 Q. Specifically -- and I'm going to ask this

23 specifically for clarification, that ESY should only

24 be directly related to one or more IEP goals as is

25 written in your General Guidelines?

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1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Okay. I'm going to reference your "ODE

3 Guidance Regarding ESY," which is on page 2 of 2 in

4 Exhibit 4.

5 Are you with me?

6 A. I am.

7 Q. Where did this come from?

8 A. Oregon Department of Education's web site

9 on special education.

10 Q. And you copied and pasted it off their web

11 site --

12 A. Correct --

13 Q. -- or it was already in there, in this

14 document?

15 A. Oh. This was already in there.

16 Q. So did you originally create this

17 document, or was this document in existence when --

18 I don't know when you took your position.

19 A. This document -- I don't know the

20 origination date of this. It did occur within the

21 last three years.

22 Q. So this document wasn't even in existence

23 three years ago? And I'm referring to Exhibit S-4,

24 the ESY, OAR, and ODE guidelines --

25 A. I can't necessarily speak to that. Let me

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1 correct my answer.

2 This document was revised in August. It

3 existed prior to, and I do not know the origination

4 date.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Clarification. When you say

6 "this document," which document are you referring

7 to?

8 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I would say the

9 entire "Guidance" section from our special ed

10 handbook which includes Exhibits S-3 and -- excuse

11 me -- 4.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: (To [Parent]) And now I need

13 you to answer that question again for me. S-3 and

14 S-4 -- you asked were they in existence when?

15 [PARENT]: I was just referencing S-4.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

17 [PARENT]: And I wanted to know was S-4 --

18 as a package, the ESY, OAR, and ODE guidance -- was

19 this in existence prior to he -- prior to Mr. Kolb

20 amending it in August.

21 THE WITNESS: Yes.

22 BY [PARENT]:

23 Q. When did you take the position of special

24 ed director for Grants Pass School District?

25 A. July of 2011.

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1 Q. So roughly three years ago?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. Had you ever amended this document

4 previous to August?

5 A. I had not.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Amended, again, "this

7 document"?

8 [PARENT]: This document, S-4.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you.

10 [PARENT]: Exhibit 4.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: S-4 prior to August of --

12 [PARENT]: 2013.

13 Q. Correct? Is that when you stated that you

14 amended it, August of 2013?

15 A. This was revised in August of 2013.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: And had you ever amended S-4

17 prior to August of 2013?

18 THE WITNESS: I had not.

19 BY [PARENT]:

20 Q. So it was in existence in its static form

21 when you started?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. When did you first see Exhibit S-4?

24 A. From actually going back to when I was a

25 special education teacher, South Middle School,

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1 approximately 10 to 12 years ago.

2 Q. Regarding directly the ODE guidance

3 regarding ESY, the second paragraph or section of

4 the Exhibit S-4 as a whole, was that in the

5 existence -- (to Judge House) are you clear?

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Yeah. I'm just looking at

7 something.

8 [PARENT]: Oh. Okay.

9 Q. Did you amend any portion of the ODE

10 guidance regarding ESY in August of 2013?

11 A. I can't tell you if only ODE amended it

12 because I took it directly from ODE's guidance page.

13 Q. So you did? The answer is yes because you

14 would have copied and pasted it in August of two --

15 correct me if I'm wrong. Did you copy and paste

16 what's now on ODE guidance regarding ESY on August

17 13th and placing it into document Exhibit S-4?

18 A. I updated it. I copied and pasted it as

19 an update should it have been revised.

20 Q. Okay. Referencing that ODE guidance, do

21 you feel that the ODE guidance section of Exhibit 4

22 supports your General Guideline No. 2, that is ESY

23 is intended to maintain a skill or behavior directly

24 related to one or more IEP goal?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. All right. I'm returning back to Exhibit

2 S-3.

3 Your General Guideline No. 3, "All members

4 of the IEP team can request ESY."

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Is there a question?

6 [PARENT]: Yes. I'm trying to phrase it

7 appropriately.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Sorry.

9 BY [PARENT]:

10 Q. Is it the District's policy that a member

11 of the IEP team must request ESY services?

12 A. Somebody has to initiate the consideration

13 of ESY.

14 Q. So No. 3 of General Guidelines is

15 basically -- No. 3 on Exhibit 3 under your "General

16 Guidelines" where it states, "All members of the IEP

17 team can request ESY," that suggested that someone

18 on the team must initiate looking at ESY? Is that

19 what you just said?

20 A. We're required to consider ESY under IDEA.

21 So we do that at least annually for every student

22 under IEP.

23 Q. Then what's the point of No. 3? If you're

24 required to do it and you do it as a matter of

25 policy, why is No. 3 under "General Guidelines"

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1 there?

2 A. There are multiple service providers.

3 Oftentimes data may be kept by -- primarily by one

4 or two providers, but there are multiple other

5 members of the IEP team, potentially.

6 Q. I'm not clear on that answer; so I'm not

7 clear on why No. 3 would be there just simply

8 because there's multiple providers. And let me

9 finish.

10 The reason I'm unclear is because you just

11 stated that IEP -- you're required to consider if

12 ESY is a requirement at least annually; is that

13 correct?

14 A. That is what I just stated.

15 Q. So I still don't understand, if you're

16 required to consider ESY, how there being multiple

17 team members pertains to No. 3, that "all members of

18 the IEP team can request ESY."

19 A. It may just be redundant in that it just

20 complies with the law.

21 Q. So to reiterate my previous question, it's

22 your understanding based on state and federal

23 regulations that you are required to consider ESY as

24 part of the development of an IEP?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. Moving on to No. 4 under "General

2 Guidelines," typically the initial -- I'm going to

3 read the General Guideline -- all right? -- on

4 Exhibit 3.

5 And it states, "Typically the initial or

6 annual IEP is when the IEP team discusses the need

7 for ESY." And I'm going to stop there real quick

8 and just ask you another question.

9 You just told me that it's your

10 understanding that ESY must be considered at the

11 development or at an IEP meeting; is that correct?

12 MR. COHN-LEE: I think that

13 mischaracterizes the testimony but --

14 [PARENT]: Okay. Well, then, could you --

15 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to -- just a

16 moment. I agree. I'm going to sustain the

17 objection.

18 So can you reask your question?

19 [PARENT]: Yeah. I was going to request

20 that his answer to the previous question where he

21 stated that be reread so I can clarify the question.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

23 (The record was read by the reporter as

24 follows:

25 "Is it the District's policy that a member

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1 of the IEP team must request ESY services?"

2 ANSWER: "Somebody has to initiate the

3 consideration of ESY.")

4 [PARENT]: And then what was my next

5 question, please?

6 (The record was read by the reporter as

7 follows:

8 "So No. 3 of the General Guidelines is

9 basically -- No. 3 on Exhibit 3 under your 'General

10 Guidelines' is where it states, 'All members of the

11 IEP team can request ESY,' that suggested that

12 someone on the team must initiate looking at ESY?

13 Is that what you just said?"

14 ANSWER: "We're required to consider ESY

15 under IDEA. So we do that at least annually for

16 every student under IEP.")

17 [PARENT]: Okay. Thank you.

18 THE REPORTER: You're welcome.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent], it's hard to do

20 this, but please try not to give a lengthy, what

21 would be your testimony or argument almost, in a

22 question.

23 I just heard that statement. It's very

24 long, and it's your interpretation, several

25 iterations. So it's a compound question; it's

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1 unclear; and it's a little argumentative.

2 So just try to ask a shorter, single,

3 direct question.

4 [PARENT]: Very good. Feel free to call

5 me out.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: I just noticed it when I

7 heard that read back.

8 BY [PARENT]:

9 Q. Okay. I'm going to get back to General

10 Guidelines No. 4. "Typically the initial or annual

11 IEP is when the IEP team discusses the need for

12 ESY." And again, I'm on Exhibit 3 under "General

13 Guidelines." "However, if a student is new to the

14 district school" -- "district or school," I guess,

15 "data will be necessary to make these decisions. "In

16 these cases teams can indicate on the IEP that the

17 team will reconvene at a later date to determine if

18 ESY is appropriate and in which objective goals

19 areas," and then it's referenced, says "See the

20 guidance below."

21 I'm going to reference the one sentence,

22 "However, if the school is new to the district or

23 school, data will be necessary to make these

24 decisions."

25 Why is that sentence in the General

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1 Guidelines for extended school year, "data is

2 necessary to make these decisions"?

3 A. We base our determination for ESY on the

4 identified needs of the students, and we rely on

5 data to inform that process.

6 Q. Is that all you rely on? You rely only on

7 data to determine if --

8 A. We rely on professional judgment and the

9 data.

10 Q. Okay. In Exhibit No. 4 of your document

11 under the OARs, Section (5) reads, "School districts

12 must develop criteria for determining the need for

13 extended school year services. Criteria must

14 include regression and recoupment time based on

15 documented evidence or, if no documented evidence,

16 on predictions according to the professional

17 judgment of the team."

18 So is it your understanding that the OARs

19 provide for there being no data?

20 A. My understanding would be ESY is typically

21 provided during the long break in the summer, and

22 whenever data is possible to support decisions, we

23 will ensure the opportunity to get that information.

24 Q. I'm going to repeat the question. (To

25 Judge House) Do I need to repeat the question, or

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1 can I just say he didn't answer the question?

2 JUDGE HOUSE: I think that you can go

3 ahead and ask again. I didn't hear an answer.

4 [PARENT]: Okay.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: I didn't hear your answer to

6 the question directly.

7 THE WITNESS: Okay.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Go ahead and ask the

9 question.

10 BY [PARENT]:

11 Q. I'm going to ask the question again then.

12 Would you agree that the OAR provides for

13 the instance that there may be no data?

14 A. It does provide for that opportunity.

15 Q. Okay. Then why are your General

16 Guidelines -- I'm going to retract that.

17 Since the OARs provide for an instance

18 where there is no data, do you believe that your

19 sentence, "If a student" -- your sentence in the

20 General Guidelines under Section 4, "If a student is

21 new to the district or school, data will be

22 necessary to make these decisions," is in line with

23 the Oregon Administrative Rules?

24 A. According to the OARs, the data is not

25 necessary. So this statement does use the word

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1 "necessary."

2 Q. Again, you didn't really answer my

3 question. Do you want me to repeat it?

4 A. Please.

5 [PARENT]: Could you repeat my last

6 question, please. I'm sorry.

7 THE REPORTER: Sure thing.

8 (The record was read by the reporter as

9 follows:

10 QUESTION: "Okay. Then why are your

11 General Guidelines -- I'm going to retract that.

12 "Since the OARs provide for an instance where there

13 is no data, do you believe that your sentence, 'If a

14 student' -- your sentence in the General Guidelines

15 under Section 4, 'If a student is new to the

16 district or school, data will be necessary to make

17 these decisions,' is in line with the Oregon

18 Administrative Rules?")

19 JUDGE HOUSE: I think you can answer that

20 "yes" or "no."

21 THE WITNESS: So the statement that it's

22 necessary, then the answer to that would be no.

23 BY [PARENT]:

24 Q. Thank you. (To Judge House) And I'd like

25 to apologize for having her have to reread my

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1 questions, but my short-term memory is really

2 kapooie.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: That's all right.

4 BY [PARENT]:

5 Q. Your No. 4, General Guidelines, then goes

6 on to say -- in Exhibit 3 under "General

7 Guidelines," Section 4, "In these cases teams can

8 indicate on the IEP that the team will reconvene at

9 a later date to determine if ESY is appropriate and

10 which objective" -- I'm going to stop there. I'm

11 going to stop after "reconvene at a later date prior

12 to the end of the school year to determine if ESY is

13 appropriate."

14 Do you believe that statement to be

15 supported by the OARs?

16 A. Yes --

17 Q. Yes or no.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Where do you find -- I'm sorry. May I ask

20 Your Honor something?

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

22 [PARENT]: I was going to ask where he

23 finds support for it, but did we agree that I'm not

24 going to do that?

25 JUDGE HOUSE: You can ask him if he has

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1 knowledge of a specific provision, if he has it at

2 the ready, or you can just say "Yes, I believe it

3 is."

4 [PARENT]: Okay.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Go ahead.

6 BY [PARENT]:

7 Q. Do you have specific knowledge of a

8 provision in the OARs that would support that

9 sentence?

10 A. I don't have specific OAR or federal

11 regulation numbers, but we must consider it at least

12 annually because of the required IEP process and all

13 of the factors and elements that need to be

14 addressed on an IEP. So yes.

15 Q. My question, to reask it, and I'm sorry to

16 do this -- the sentence reads, "In these cases teams

17 can indicate on the IEP that the team will reconvene

18 at a later date to determine if ESY is appropriate."

19 My question to you was: Do you believe that

20 sentence to be supported by the OARs? You stated

21 yes.

22 So I asked you -- the question was: Are you

23 familiar with where the support -- because the OARs

24 is pretty short -- where the support is for that

25 statement that you may reconvene at a later date to

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1 determine if ESY is appropriate?

2 A. I don't believe it would be embedded in

3 this OARs unless it states specifically, and I'd

4 need to read through it again. But it's directly

5 tied to our requirements in the OARs regarding the

6 development of an IEP.

7 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't understand that.

8 It's directly tied to whose requirements?

9 A. Federal and Oregon.

10 Q. And what is directly required -- the

11 federal and Oregon requirements?

12 A. The development of an IEP and

13 consideration of ESY in that process.

14 Q. And how does that relate to reconvening at

15 a later date?

16 A. It must be done at least once annually.

17 Q. All right. I'm going to leave it at that.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent]?

19 MR. COHN-LEE: Actually, Judge, can we

20 take a five-minute break at this point?

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes. And we can -- I just

22 was trying to, you know, we're all sitting and not

23 moving for a long time. Let's go ahead and take 15

24 minutes.

25 What time did we anticipate lunch?

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1 We can go off the record.

2 (A recess was taken from 10:57 a.m. to

3 11:17 a.m.)

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Go ahead, [Parent].

5 [PARENT]: Thank you.

6 Q. To get back to Section 4 of your General

7 Guidelines, which is under S-3, it finishes up, "The

8 team will reconvene at a later date to determine if

9 ESY is appropriate."

10 And you -- refresh my memory -- you had

11 stated that you felt that this portion of Section 4

12 was in alignment with state and federal regulations;

13 is that correct?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Under "Criteria For ESY Services," under

16 your extended school year document, which is S-3,

17 No. 1 states, "The student must demonstrate an undue

18 regression and recoupment of a skill or behavior

19 directly related to an IEP goal."

20 Do you contend that this is in alignment

21 with the OARs, the federal regulations --

22 A. Yes --

23 Q. -- and your guidance from the ODE?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. In No. 5 under "Criteria For ESY Services"

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1 on Exhibit S-3, it states, "If the team does not

2 have documented evidence, then the decision may be

3 made by predictions according to the professional

4 judgment of the team," and then you have

5 parenthesized, "(This is required by the OAR.)"

6 Earlier you stated that --

7 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm sorry, [Parent]. Was

8 that prior statement, was that a question --

9 [PARENT]: It wasn't a question. I was

10 just stating what it was stating.

11 MR. COHN-LEE: I see. Thank you.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: It might be a little bit

13 easier if you just refer to that section and then

14 ask the question in relation to it rather than read

15 it.

16 [PARENT]: Very good.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: It's in the record, this

18 piece.

19 Okay?

20 BY [PARENT]:

21 Q. So relating to Section 5 under "Criteria

22 For ESY Services," I believe earlier -- I'm going to

23 rephrase this.

24 Earlier did you state that data was

25 required to make an ESY determination?

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1 A. Whenever possible.

2 Q. So data is not required to make a

3 determination for ESY?

4 MR. COHN-LEE: I think it misstates Mr.

5 Kolb's testimony.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Actually his answer was

7 "whenever possible"; so there's some ambiguity.

8 Are you asking --

9 [PARENT]: I'm trying to clarify --

10 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to overrule the

11 objection. I think that is a fair question.

12 [PARENT]: I can rephrase it if you'd

13 like.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: Let me just ask it this way.

15 (To the witness) In consideration of what you said,

16 "wherever possible," does that leave room, or are

17 there some circumstances where data is not required?

18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I believe it does

19 indicate that data would not be required.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: And, [Parent], does that

21 answer the question?

22 [PARENT]: Yes.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

24 [PARENT]: And I have a follow-up

25 question.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

2 BY [PARENT]:

3 Q. So your extended school year criteria for

4 ESY, Exhibit 3, states that data is not required for

5 a determination of ESY?

6 MR. COHN-LEE: Again, I think -- in terms

7 of the criteria and what the policy states, I think

8 that mischaracterizes what the policy actually

9 states.

10 I think the testimony has been that when

11 data is possible to be gathered, it is required.

12 But only if it's not is it not required.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Your objection is that he's

14 misstating the testimony?

15 MR. COHN-LEE: (No audible response.)

16 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to overrule that,

17 but I'm going to try and clarify the question.

18 Are you asking, [Parent], whether

19 specifically as stated in this policy is there any

20 place that says situations may occur where data is

21 not required? Is that what you're asking?

22 [PARENT]: Yes, does under the criteria.

23 MR. COHN-LEE: Withdraw my objection if

24 it's stated that way. But to suggest that simply

25 data is not required, I don't think that accurately

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1 states what the policy says.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: If I restated that

3 correctly, if that's what you're trying to ask, I'll

4 ask the witness again. (To the witness) Looking at

5 the written policy, does the policy allow for a

6 situation where data is not required and a student

7 may be provided ESY?

8 THE WITNESS: Yes.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. [Parent]?

10 [PARENT]: Thank you, Your Honor.

11 Q. Would you agree that the state's OARs are

12 reflective of the same question as previously -- you

13 previously answered? What I'm trying to get to I

14 guess is: Is it your understanding that the Oregon

15 regulations state the same thing --

16 A. Yes --

17 Q. -- that if data is not available, it is

18 not necessary to make a determination for ESY?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. The same question for federal regulations.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. So for federal, state, and your policy, if

23 data is not available, it's your understanding and

24 your policy that an ESY determination can still be

25 made in the absence of data?

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1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Thank you. That was a long way to go for

3 that question.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Now a followup. (To the

5 witness) Looking at this extended school year

6 policy, can you tell me where it provides for that

7 possibility?

8 THE WITNESS: On "Criteria For ESY

9 Services," No. 5, "If the team does not have

10 documented evidence, a decision may be made by

11 predictions according to the professional judgment

12 of the team as required by OAR."

13 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Thank you.

14 BY [PARENT]:

15 Q. And I will follow up with that just to

16 concur with what you just stated, Mr. Kolb, that

17 when you said yes to the OARs, you were referencing

18 Section (5) of the OARs; is that correct?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. All right. Thank you. So then getting

21 down under your extended school year "Specific

22 Guidelines," what's the purpose of specific

23 guidelines in your mind? How do you see specific

24 guidelines? Please explain.

25 A. Let me review these before I answer.

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1 (Reading document.)

2 Can you state your question again?

3 Q. What are the purposes of the specific

4 guidelines in Exhibit S-3?

5 A. To further clarify direction for and

6 information for collecting data focused on skills or

7 behaviors, and then as well as ensuring the scope of

8 the laws included in the process for District staff.

9 Q. Under "Specific Guidelines," No. 2, it

10 seems to state that ESY -- well, actually it does

11 state "ESY must be based on measurable data."

12 Yet previously you told me that you

13 concurred that measurable data is not necessary to

14 make an ESY determination; is that correct?

15 A. State that again?

16 Q. Did you previously -- (To Judge House) I'm

17 sorry. What is it called when what he said?

18 JUDGE HOUSE: He testified.

19 BY [PARENT]:

20 Q. Did you previously testify -- sorry --

21 that ESY data is -- did you previously testify that

22 data is not required to make an ESY determination?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. But now No. 2 states, "ESY must be based

25 on data"; is that correct?

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1 A. That is what it reads.

2 Q. So in your opinion, is there conflict

3 there?

4 A. In my opinion that's part of the process

5 and guidelines that encompass the rest of this

6 document.

7 Q. Do you feel that there's conflicting -- is

8 it -- are you of the opinion that No. 5 under

9 "Criteria" conflicts with No. 2 under "Specific

10 Guidelines"?

11 A. In isolation they do.

12 Q. All right. Thank you.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Since you're here, I'm just

14 going to ask a question.

15 How do you reconcile No. 2 with No. 5?

16 THE WITNESS: How do I reconcile No. 2

17 with No. 5?

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

19 THE WITNESS: In the absence of documented

20 evidence, I guess No. 5 reconciles No. 2 as based on

21 OARs and federal regs.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm looking at "Specific

23 Guidelines," and No. 2 says, "ESY must be based on

24 measurable data such as DIBELS or" -- D-I-B-E-L-S,

25 which is an acronym -- "or behavior charts."

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1 How does the word "must" reconcile with 5

2 if there is no data available?

3 THE WITNESS: I believe that there's no --

4 left out of that sentence, No. 2, "ESY data must be

5 based on measurable data," then provided examples of

6 such types of data.

7 Does that make sense?

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes, but I'm not sure. Let

9 me make sure I can understand your answer.

10 If there's data for the ESY, it must be

11 measurable data, and that is a definition but

12 somehow the word "data" is left out of that

13 statement?

14 THE WITNESS: Correct.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: How would the person reading

16 this statement and attempting to follow the

17 guideline know that that's left out?

18 THE WITNESS: This guideline is -- is for

19 staff, for staff guidance. And training on in the

20 process of staff and considering ESY as part of the

21 IEP process would afford that opportunity.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Go ahead,

23 [Parent].

24 BY [PARENT]:

25 Q. So if this is a document for guidance for

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1 staff, was this the document that was guiding the

2 staff that was in the IEP team meeting on November

3 20th and March 18th?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And you said that this is just a guidance

6 document? You stated this is just a guidance

7 document and that it is provided in addition to

8 training relating to ESY -- ESY --

9 JUDGE HOUSE: Would that be training and

10 provided to staff members on ESY?

11 THE WITNESS: Yes.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: As well --

13 [PARENT]: Eligibility? That's the word I

14 was looking for.

15 THE WITNESS: Yes.

16 BY [PARENT]:

17 Q. How often is ESY training for eligibility

18 provided to staff?

19 A. Annually, based on the special ed handbook

20 that we provide to our special ed staff prior to

21 school starting.

22 Q. So you testified earlier that you amended

23 this in August --

24 A. Correct --

25 Q. -- of 2013? Is it your suggestion that

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1 the staff that was in the IEP meetings of November

2 and March for [Student] received training prior to

3 the beginning of the school year on ESY --

4 A. It's not my suggestion --

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Let [Parent] finish the

6 question, please.

7 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Go ahead.

9 BY [PARENT]:

10 Q. That they received training on ESY

11 eligibility prior to both those meetings?

12 A. Yes, would be my statement that they did

13 receive the training.

14 Q. Everybody that was in the IEP meeting?

15 A. No. The exception would be Doug Ely, and

16 I'm trying to recall who else may have.

17 And then Dr. Pam Schwerdt, our school

18 psychologist, was in attendance at those meetings,

19 but she was out with I believe a surgery during the

20 training.

21 Q. How about ESD employees? Were they

22 involved in the training?

23 A. I don't recall if ESD employees were at

24 that training.

25 Q. If not, let's make the assumption that --

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1 because there were two ESD employees at the IEP

2 meetings; is that correct?

3 A. Kirby Erickson.

4 Q. Kirby Erickson and -- is Cindy Picton in

5 the --

6 A. No, she works for us.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: And just in the event that

8 those names aren't spelled somewhere else, is it K9 i-r-b-y, Erickson, E-r-i-c-k-s-e-n?

10 THE WITNESS: O-n.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: O-n? And I think they're on

12 the list.

13 [PARENT]: They're on the list.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: I know, but I don't have

15 that list to recall. What was the second name?

16 THE WITNESS: Cindy, C-i-n-d-y, Picton, P17 i-c-t-o-n.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you. All right.

19 Those are ESD employees that were at the meeting and

20 may not have been in the training?

21 THE WITNESS: Kirby Erickson was the only

22 one that's a DSD employee. Cindy Picton was a

23 Grants Pass School District employee who was in

24 attendance at that training.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

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1 BY [PARENT]:

2 Q. So Kirby Erickson was part of the

3 training, or no?

4 A. I don't recall.

5 Q. Cindy Picton --

6 A. Yes, she was.

7 Q. And Dorothy Jewell?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. When did the training occur?

10 A. The Thursday before school started.

11 Q. Do you recall how much time was spent on

12 ESY eligibility --

13 A. I do not --

14 Q. -- as part of the training?

15 A. I do not recall the agenda or the -- I

16 recall ESY being on the agenda. I do not recall how

17 much time was spent on that training.

18 Q. Do you recall whether or not the "General

19 Guidelines Criteria," "Specific Guidelines," and

20 "When Parents Disagree" was covered in the training?

21 A. Yes, this document was covered in the

22 training.

23 Q. So everything that we've covered thus far

24 was reinforced in training? All the questions I've

25 asked you about this document was covered in the

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1 training and reiterated to the people that were in

2 the IEP meetings on November and March that this is

3 the policy of the school district?

4 A. Yes, this was covered in its entirety at

5 the meeting.

6 Q. And the people in the meeting were told

7 that "this is the policy and these are the

8 guidelines that you must follow for ESY

9 eligibility"?

10 A. I did not read this out loud to them.

11 They all read this for themselves, and then we

12 proceed with dialogue and questioning and practices

13 around this.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to ask this

15 question to have it a little bit more clearly

16 answered.

17 Were they told that this is the policy

18 whether they read it or not?

19 THE WITNESS: Yes.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: Were they told to follow

21 this policy?

22 THE WITNESS: Yes.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: Was that your question,

24 [Parent]?

25 [PARENT]: Yes. Thank you.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Go ahead,

2 [Parent].

3 BY [PARENT]:

4 Q. No. 3 under the "Specific Guidelines" gets

5 back to some of the questions we had before, and

6 ends, "ESY" -- "Only those needs that relate

7 directly to one or more IEP goals." So it's stated

8 in here.

9 Is it reflected in the training or

10 reinforced in the training that ESY services can

11 only relate to IEP goals?

12 A. The term "objectives" may have been left

13 out there, "goals and objectives."

14 Q. So it is --

15 A. So yes.

16 Q. So it is reinforced that ESY eligibility

17 can only be based on one or more IEP goals and/or

18 objectives --

19 A. Yes --

20 Q. -- and we'll say "objectives" was left

21 out?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Okay. No. 5, under "Specific Guidelines"?

24 MR. COHN-LEE: And, [Parent], are you

25 looking at page 2?

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1 [PARENT]: Page 2 of Exhibit 3. Actually

2 -- I'm sorry. I'll ask that as a follow-up.

3 So, again, I'm on No. 5 on page 2 of 2 for

4 Exhibit 3.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Beginning "ESY needs to be

6 planned and documented"?

7 [PARENT]: Yes, Your Honor.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

9 [PARENT]: I'm trying to avoid reading

10 them.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: That's all right.

12 [PARENT]: And now I'm getting lost.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: That's all right. Go ahead

14 and ask the question.

15 BY [PARENT]:

16 Q. Leaving the last sentence out, or just I

17 guess the last sentence out -- I have to read it,

18 I'm sorry, to have my question make sense.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

20 BY [PARENT]:

21 Q. But it says that the ESY plan, if there is

22 going to be one I would presume, needs to only

23 address the narrow issues of the skill that is

24 poorly recouped.

25 Is it your contention that that statement

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1 aligns with Oregon Administrative Rules pertaining

2 to ESY?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Is it your contention that that statement

5 -- that that statement aligns with federal

6 regulations pertaining to ESY?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. No. 6 on page 2 of 2, under Exhibit 3,

9 what does that mean?

10 A. "Related service areas on the IEP" --

11 maybe consultation, maybe services outside of -- can

12 be transportation, although I don't know how that

13 might fit.

14 Q. Let me redirect the question.

15 I'm not asking what is related service. I'm

16 asking: What does the sentence mean as far as the

17 specific guidelines go?

18 And it reads, "ESY may involve only

19 related services." So I guess what I'm looking for

20 is not what a related service is, but what are you

21 trying to say with that sentence because it's under

22 a "Specific Guidelines"?

23 A. The provision of ESY may only be as

24 determined a related service need.

25 Q. So I'm going to ask a follow-up question.

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1 Are you done?

2 A. Yeah.

3 Q. Okay. So are you saying that ESY services

4 may only be related services?

5 A. If deemed appropriate.

6 Q. Are you saying ESY services can only be

7 related services if deemed appropriate?

8 A. ESY services -- ESY services can be more

9 than just related services. But it is possible that

10 only related services may be deemed appropriate;

11 hence, yes.

12 Q. Do you think that No. 6 may be a little

13 ambiguous, reflecting on it now, that it may be

14 interpreted in multiple ways?

15 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm going to object as to

16 speculation.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to sustain that

18 objection.

19 You can argue that point if you want to.

20 You can ask this witness if he finds that statement

21 clear or does he see ambiguity in that statement.

22 He can answer either one of those questions.

23 BY [PARENT]:

24 Q. Do you find this statement clear?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. Do you find this statement clear in that

2 it is suggesting that it may involve only related

3 services as opposed to it can only involve related

4 services?

5 A. It may involve only related services.

6 Q. You missed the nuance in the question. My

7 concern is that it was interpreted by your staff to

8 suggest that it can only involve related services

9 because I believe --

10 JUDGE HOUSE: Let's me ask the question

11 this way.

12 [PARENT]: Am I -- thank you.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Just a moment. (To the

14 witness) Mr. Kolb, is it possible to interpret that

15 statement as an ESY is -- now I'm getting confused -

16 - is required to only provide related services?

17 (To [Parent]) Is that what you wanted?

18 You're trying to get to the opposite or the

19 exclusive?

20 [PARENT]: Correct.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: So you're asking if it could

22 be interpreted to say that ESY is provided only for

23 related services?

24 [PARENT]: Correct.

25 THE WITNESS: No.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

2 BY [PARENT]:

3 Q. Did anybody ever bring up any questions in

4 training relating to this question that you can

5 recall?

6 A. Not that I can recall.

7 Q. Or not question. Relating to this

8 guideline?

9 A. Not that I recall.

10 Q. And to reiterate, you're of the opinion

11 that No. 6 does not make ESY exclusive to related

12 services?

13 MR. COHN-LEE: Well, I am going to object

14 at that point, Judge. I think we have on multiple

15 occasions been straying into asked and answered.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent], I agree on this.

17 It's asked and answered.

18 [PARENT]: Okay. Very good.

19 I don't think I have any more questions

20 pertaining to Exhibit S-3. Bear with me for a

21 moment.

22 I'm going to present Exhibit 15. I'm

23 sorry. Before I do that, can I get those back in the

24 event that I need to provide them to another

25 witness?

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes. Would you hand the

2 exhibits back to [Parent]?

3 THE WITNESS: Yes. I need one more

4 paperclip. I got it.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: So you need a copy of S-15?

6 [PARENT]: S-15, yeah, for him.

7 Q. S-15 is IEP meeting notes from the

8 11/20/2013 IEP meeting?

9 JUDGE HOUSE: Is that correct?

10 THE WITNESS: That is correct.

11 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge, at this point I

12 would raise, not so much an objection, but a note

13 that I think this document is incomplete.

14 I think [Parent] has pulled out one page

15 out of the actual meeting minutes that were taken

16 for that meeting. And other than -- I think [Parent]

17 has inserted highlighting into the document, which

18 is not obviously part of the original document.

19 But the complete document is actually at

20 District's Exhibit D-4, and that includes a complete

21 collection of the IEP meeting notes.

22 I think it would be appropriate under the

23 Rule of Completeness to reference that document as

24 opposed to just a single page in isolation.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: Mr. Cohn-Lee, the Rule of

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1 Completeness? You mean the Best Evidence Rule?

2 MR. COHN-LEE: Also completeness. There's

3 also a Rule of Completeness which states that you

4 can't just selectively pull out individual pages or

5 statements from a document, that the document should

6 probably be reviewed in its entirety.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: I was just going to ask you

8 what the rule number was.

9 MR. COHN-LEE: Sure.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: But, you know, we don't have

11 -- administrative law doesn't have -- the Rules of

12 Evidence can be used as guides, et cetera. And I

13 understand what you're trying to say.

14 I think for purposes of [Parent's]

15 presentation or discussion, we'll stick with S-15 as

16 his reference. But when you question S-15, we'll

17 use the District's document.

18 And, [Parent], on the record, I'm just

19 going to have you remember that the witness has to

20 answer the question for it to be evidence.

21 So the way that you introduce this, you

22 said what it was. You can't testify right now

23 because you're not sworn in. So you need to just

24 ask, "Is this meeting minutes?" And his answer

25 would have been whatever it was.

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1 [PARENT]: Okay.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: So I'm just going to do that

3 preliminarily. This appears to be IEP meeting notes

4 for Student on 11/20/2013, page 27 and 28; is that

5 correct?

6 THE WITNESS: That is correct.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Does that indicate that

8 there are additional pages and this is not a

9 complete document?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes, there are additional

11 pages.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Are there shaded areas on

13 this document that are not the same as the

14 document's original?

15 THE WITNESS: I cannot answer that

16 question without reviewing the original.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: So you don't have -- let me

18 ask.

19 THE WITNESS: Mine's not shaded.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. I'm going to show you

21 what's been given to the Court on page 27 and 28.

22 Does that reflect the original?

23 THE WITNESS: Without discrepant review,

24 it appears to be in its original form.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. If there are

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1 discrepancies, we'll bring them out on cross2 examination.

3 THE WITNESS: Okay.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. [Parent], not to

5 over-complicate, we're looking at S-15.

6 [PARENT]: Sorry. I'm just comparing the

7 District's exhibit to mine.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Oh. You have S-15, 1 of 1,

9 printed at the bottom of 27 and 28 --

10 [PARENT]: 28, yeah. And District's

11 Exhibit D-4. MR. COHN-LEE: D-4.

12 [PARENT]: It appears to be their page 23.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. So we don't know

14 whether this is a complete first part of that

15 document; so that's noted. This appears to be a

16 portion of the document purporting to be minute

17 notes, and it's 27 and 28.

18 Go ahead and ask your questions about this

19 document.

20 [PARENT]: If I may, I only did the one

21 page that I needed because I knew that I was faxing

22 in my exhibit lists. If it pleases Your Honor, we

23 can reference the respondent's exhibit. It doesn't

24 matter to me.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: If you're not stating that

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1 they're different documents, if you'll agree that

2 what you're looking at is the same document that you

3 intended to offer -- and I just heard you say that

4 the page numbers are different.

5 Those page numbers were preprinted on

6 these meeting notes. So is the one that you're

7 going to look at preprinted page 27 of 28?

8 [PARENT]: No. It's preprinted page 23 of

9 24, and I think it has to do with how it was

10 delivered because it was delivered in an Excel

11 spreadsheet; so depending upon or something.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. So if you look at the

13 content and you agree that that District's Exhibit D

14 -- D-4?

15 MR. COHN-LEE: Correct.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: -- is the document that you

17 intended to refer to, we will use D-4.

18 [PARENT]: I would agree to that.

19 MR. COHN-LEE: Yeah, and in fact, Judge, I

20 think we probably should because, looking at the

21 pages and depending on how you printed them out,

22 even the content of the page is different --

23 [PARENT]: Right --

24 MR. COHN-LEE: -- from page to page.

25 [PARENT]: I have no problem with that.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: That's all right. So what

2 we're going to do for the record is S-4 won't be

3 admitted. MR. COHN-LEE: S-15?

4 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm sorry. S-15. We are

5 referring instead to District's D-4, which I assume

6 now is offered and accepted as the minutes taken or

7 provided for the meeting on 11/20/2013; is that

8 correct?

9 MR. COHN-LEE: (No audible response.)

10 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

11 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-4 was

12 admitted into evidence.)

13 BY [PARENT]:

14 Q. Do you have a copy of it?

15 A. I do.

16 Q. Who created these minutes?

17 A. Emily Luka, my administrative assistant,

18 took these minutes at this meeting.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: Emily?

20 THE WITNESS: Luka, L-u-k-a.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you.

22 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge House, just for

23 clarity, Ms. Luka is actually sitting in the room

24 here.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm sorry, Ms. Luka. And I

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1 should have known that, but the court reporter had

2 already asked your names. I apologize.

3 MS. LUKA: No problem.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. Go ahead.

5 BY [PARENT]:

6 Q. Would you agree that Ms. Luka did a good

7 job taking minutes?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Would you agree that if somebody spoke,

10 she made a note of it?

11 A. As much as possible, she would have made a

12 note of it.

13 Q. So these minutes would be reflective of

14 pretty much everything that occurred in the meeting?

15 A. I don't believe necessarily everything.

16 They summarize an attempt to indicate who referenced

17 what or said what.

18 Q. Would you agree that if -- if we agreed

19 that it's a summary, do you agree that if somebody

20 spoke, it's referenced in this -- in these meeting

21 notes?

22 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm going to object. I

23 think that has been asked and answered.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Not directly. I'm going to

25 overrule the objection.

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1 THE WITNESS: Yes.

2 BY [PARENT]:

3 Q. Okay. Referring to page 23 and 24 in the

4 District's Exhibit D-4, in the left-hand column, it

5 says, "Extended School Year."

6 Are you with me on that, Mr. Kolb?

7 A. I'm there.

8 Q. In the right-hand column, it states,

9 "Extended school year determination to be reviewed

10 on April 16th. Parent is not in consensus."

11 You're in agreement with that?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. In the "Discussion" and the "Action,"

14 which is the middle column, "JA stated to team" is

15 the first comment. "JA" is -- do you have any idea

16 who that refers to?

17 A. Julie Armbrust. She was the Oregon

18 Department of Education assigned facilitator for the

19 IEP meeting.

20 Q. Okay.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Let me ask for

22 clarification, because I've seen this word used in

23 two different places again. There's a technical

24 word for "mediator" as a term of art, and there's a

25 "facilitator."

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1 Was Ms. Armbrust a mediator or a

2 facilitator?

3 THE WITNESS: My apologies. She was a

4 facilitator.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: You said "facilitator."

6 It's not you that used the word differently. Okay.

7 And it wasn't you. It's just shown up somewhere.

8 Okay. So your question started to ask

9 about she says she's the first person mentioned.

10 BY [PARENT]:

11 Q. JA is mentioned as having a conversation

12 and -- I'm sorry. Let me back up. Prior to this

13 section is "Placement" -- and I'm moving up the line

14 -- "Placement," "Service Summary," "Service

15 Summary," "Service Summary," and below it is

16 "Special Factors," "Final Concerns," "Parent Input

17 For PLEPS."

18 So are you in agreement that this section

19 is the only section relating to extended school

20 year?

21 A. Without going through the entire document

22 at this time, I would have to say this is my only

23 current knowledge area without reviewing the entire

24 document to see if ESY was discussed anywhere else.

25 Q. To the best of your recollection, do you

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1 recall that we only discussed ESY at one point

2 during that meeting?

3 A. To the best of my recollection --

4 Q. Thank you --

5 A. -- yes.

6 Q. So it appears by looking at initials,

7 which -- it appears by looking at the initials under

8 "Discussion Action Area," that JA's initials are

9 there, RP's initials are there.

10 Would you agree that "RP" is referring to

11 me?

12 A. Yes, I would.

13 Q. And KK's initials are there.

14 Would you agree that "KK" refers to you?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. So the entire discussion pertaining to ESY

17 in the November 20th IEP meeting was by the --

18 included the facilitator -- we decided on

19 "facilitator"; right?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Myself and yourself, or you?

22 A. I cannot say for sure, but this portion of

23 the document indicates that only the three of us

24 were involved in that discussion.

25 Q. And to reiterate, I'm only asking based on

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1 what's here.

2 A. Based on what's here, yes.

3 Q. It would appear that --

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. Thank you.

6 Do you recall how many people were on that

7 IEP team for that meeting? Actually I retract that.

8 I'm going to bring up another exhibit because I have

9 that exhibit I think.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: Are you wanting to show how

11 many people were at the meeting?

12 [PARENT]: I thought I had the exhibit

13 that had exactly who was at that meeting but --

14 JUDGE HOUSE: Would it be at the end of

15 the document?

16 THE WITNESS: It's at the very beginning

17 of the document.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Sorry. I'm asking a

19 question here.

20 Would it be located somewhere in the

21 document, the beginning or the end?

22 [PARENT]: Yes, it's at the beginning,

23 Your Honor.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you. So it is D-4,

25 page 1.

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1 [PARENT]: Page 1.

2 Q. So looking at D-4, page 1, "Attendees,"

3 does that seem correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. So there was nine people that had worked

6 with [Student] and were involved in his education in

7 that meeting; is that correct?

8 A. No.

9 Q. How many people were in that meeting that

10 were --

11 JUDGE HOUSE: You asked a compound

12 question, and I'll separate them.

13 You asked a "number of people," and then

14 you included a statement "that had worked with" or

15 "provided services" -- you asked about how they were

16 related to [Student]. (To the witness) So were there

17 nine people at the meeting?

18 THE WITNESS: Yes.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent], are you asking if

20 everyone at that meeting taught [Student] or

21 provided services to [Student]?

22 [PARENT]: I can ask a different question.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

24 BY [PARENT]:

25 Q. Of those nine people -- of those nine

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1 people, how many had direct contact with [Student]?

2 A. Eight.

3 Q. And referring to "direct contact," I'm

4 referring to responsible for some provision of

5 [Student's] education.

6 A. It's a broad scope. One, two, three,

7 four, five, six, seven -- eight.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: So the answer is eight.

9 BY [PARENT]:

10 Q. So eight? So if the IEP team consisted of

11 eight people that were involved in [Student's]

12 education -- let me rephrase this.

13 The IEP team per your testimony consisted

14 of eight people that were involved in [Student's]

15 education, yet -- I'm going to -- strike that.

16 Were you one of those eight people in the

17 answer to the last question?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And I may have asked this previously, but

20 did you ever provide instruction to [Student]?

21 A. I frequently interacted with [Student]

22 during the provision of ESY last summer, including

23 spelling, staff support, lunch breaks, and direct

24 one-to-one interaction with [Student], as well as

25 observing on numerous occasions.

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1 Q. On page 1 it has you listed as "Director

2 of Special Services"?

3 A. That is correct.

4 Q. Please explain your role in that IEP

5 meeting.

6 A. My role in that IEP meeting, contribute

7 based on my knowledge of the student. Additionally,

8 when a disagreement should occur, I would serve as

9 the District representative.

10 Q. Is the purpose of the District

11 representative to -- strike that.

12 What's the purpose of the District

13 representative in an IEP meeting?

14 A. The purpose of the District representative

15 in an IEP meeting is pretty vast. It has to do with

16 knowledge and allocation of resources. Can be

17 knowledge of placement options, outside agencies.

18 Additionally, when disputes may arise, the

19 District representative would need to make a

20 determination.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Are you also the individual

22 who has the authority to authorize expenditures from

23 the District on behalf of services?

24 THE WITNESS: Yes.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent]?

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1 BY [PARENT]:

2 Q. You said that you felt that the District

3 representative's role was to mediate dispute?

4 "Mediate" was a word that I put in there. That

5 wasn't your word.

6 But resolve disputes? I forget the exact

7 word you used.

8 A. I believe that's part of my charge in my

9 role for the District, and at times mediation or

10 ultimately making a determination when two parties

11 can't agree to agree.

12 Q. Do you believe that's your role -- no, I'm

13 not going to say "your role," but the position that

14 you were in, or your role -- in that meeting did you

15 believe that that was your role based on the Oregon

16 Administrative Rules pertaining to IEP?

17 A. Certain moments in that meeting, yes.

18 Q. Do you deem that that was your role based

19 on federal regulations? And when I say "your role,"

20 I'm particularly just referencing --

21 A. That part of my role --

22 Q. That part of your role that you discussed,

23 when a -- a -- when a disagreement occurs.

24 MR. COHN-LEE: And I'm sorry. I just have

25 to object as vague. Which part of which role are

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1 you referencing?

2 JUDGE HOUSE: Are you asking whether his

3 role as I believe he stated was to try to resolve

4 disputes if there was disagreement, if they cannot

5 be resolved then to make a decision?

6 [PARENT]: That's the role I'm

7 referencing. And

8 I'm trying to get out: Does he believe that --

9 JUDGE HOUSE: That the federal and state

10 rules provide for him to act in that role?

11 [PARENT]: Yes.

12 THE WITNESS: Yes.

13 BY [PARENT]:

14 Q. Thank you. On page 23 of 24 in D-4,

15 discounting the facilitator, just your initials and

16 my initials are on this entire section for "Extended

17 School Year Conversations"; is that correct?

18 JUDGE HOUSE: I think you're speaking a

19 little fast for the court reporter.

20 [PARENT]: I'm sorry.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: And can I ask it a little

22 bit differently and see if I'm asking the same

23 thing?

24 [PARENT]: Yes.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: In the "Discussion" section

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1 of "Extended School Year" on page 23, is there an

2 indication that anyone other than yourself and

3 [Parent] of the IEP team discussed ESY?

4 THE WITNESS: No.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: And let me ask an additional

6 question: Was the facilitator's role to discuss ESY

7 as a factual matter? Let me back up. I want to ask

8 you a question.

9 What role did the facilitator play?

10 THE WITNESS: IEP development to include

11 where on the IEP we addressed this ESY.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Does the facilitator add

13 content to the discussion, or does the facilitator

14 enable conversation between the parties?

15 THE WITNESS: The facilitator does add

16 content to the discussion, did in this case for

17 sure.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. So the

19 facilitator -- I'm sorry, [Parent]. I apologize.

20 I'm --

21 [PARENT]: I'm coming up with a number.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: But in this instance, did

23 the facilitator actually discuss substantive issues

24 of the IEP, discuss the provision of services or

25 provided input on the provision of services to the

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1 Student?

2 THE WITNESS: No.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: So she provided structure --

4 did she provide structure for the discussion?

5 THE WITNESS: Yes.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. I'm not going to ask

7 any more questions right now. [Parent], go ahead.

8 BY [PARENT]:

9 Q. I'm going to bring up the facilitator.

10 The facilitator was not there -- was the

11 facilitator there because she knew anything about

12 [Student]?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Was the facilitator there because she was

15 familiar with [Student's] educational history?

16 A. No.

17 Q. In your mind why was the facilitator -- in

18 your opinion, why was the facilitator there?

19 A. In my opinion, the facilitator was there

20 as it was an idea I approached you with, to have an

21 ODE-appointed facilitator given some challenges that

22 our team has worked through prior to this November

23 meeting.

24 Q. The facilitator was not there -- was the

25 facilitator there to provide opinions relating to --

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1 strike that.

2 I have no further questions with this.

3 And I'm sorry. You had re-asked my

4 question very eloquently about -- and I don't know

5 if we ever got that answer.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Asked about was his role in

7 that meeting with the OARs in compliance?

8 [PARENT]: No, it was --

9 JUDGE HOUSE: Or was it about the

10 facilitator?

11 [PARENT]: It was involved in that. You

12 had asked more eloquently or more directly is it

13 Your Honor's -- was it just he and I.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. Just based on page

15 23, who was involved in the discussion of the ESY?

16 [PARENT]: That was it, and I don't know

17 the answer was ever given.

18 THE WITNESS: Based on this, it was only

19 [Parent] and myself.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

21 BY [PARENT]:

22 Q. Is it your understanding, Mr. Kolb, that

23 IEP decisions must be made by a team?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Is it your understanding that the team,

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1 the entire IEP team should have input on IEP

2 decisions?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. By looking at this on page 23, this

5 section, does it appear that the team was involved

6 in the decision relating to ESY in the November 20th

7 meeting, IEP meeting?

8 A. Having been there, yes.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: I think the question is just

10 on the face of the document.

11 THE WITNESS: On the face of this, no.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: And I'm going to go ahead

13 and just ask you to explain your answer.

14 THE WITNESS: They're based on District

15 procedures, prior discussion as to how to address

16 this on the ensuing IEP.

17 Although not rich in dialogue at the

18 meeting, I recall one team member -- and I do not

19 know exactly who it was -- reiterated there was a

20 need to collect data to make these decisions.

21 And it was not me unless I reiterated it

22 in there again, but -- so I don't know if that

23 helps.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: So your recollection is

25 someone at some point said that it was needed, but

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1 it's not reflected in the note?

2 THE WITNESS: Correct. That would be my

3 recollection.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. [Parent]?

5 BY [PARENT]:

6 Q. So these notes are not reliable?

7 A. These notes are reliable.

8 Q. But somebody said something pertaining to

9 -- it's your recollection that somebody said

10 something pertaining to extended school year other

11 than yourself or myself, and it's not reflected in

12 these notes?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Do you recall -- did the Parent ask to

15 discuss ESY at this meeting?

16 A. Did the Parent ask --

17 [PARENT]: Can I just refer to myself?

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

19 [PARENT]: I don't want to -- I don't want

20 to appear to be testifying.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: No, that's all right.

22 BY [PARENT]:

23 Q. Do you recall me asking you to discuss ESY

24 at this meeting?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. Do you recall your response?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Could you repeat what you recall as your

4 response?

5 A. My response was as per our District

6 guidelines on consideration of ESY with students who

7 were new to our District for which we don't have

8 sufficient data to help inform that decision, that

9 it would be typical of our practices that we would

10 defer this to a later date until --

11 JUDGE HOUSE: Just slow down just a little

12 bit.

13 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm sorry. There's a lot of

15 nuances to what you're saying. So can you start

16 "Pursuant to our District guidelines with students

17 who are new to our District" and go from there.

18 THE WITNESS: It's our practices to try to

19 collect data to inform ESY decisions.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. [Parent], did

21 you hear that?

22 [PARENT]: Yes.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Go ahead.

24 BY [PARENT]:

25 Q. So was there a discussion relating ESY

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1 other than that?

2 A. I believe Julie Armbrust attempted to

3 clarify with you common practices in the State of

4 Oregon as related to deferring the determination of

5 making the ESY determination --

6 THE REPORTER: Could you just -- I'm

7 sorry. I didn't hear that at the beginning. Do you

8 mind --

9 THE WITNESS: Okay. So I believe Julie

10 Armbrust referenced common Oregon practices in which

11 Districts may at a later date make the determination

12 for ESY.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

14 BY [PARENT]:

15 Q. So a decision was made to not discuss ESY

16 at the November IEP meeting?

17 A. No.

18 Q. So ESY was discussed at the --

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Can you please to the best of your

21 recollection relate what the discussion was about?

22 A. We very briefly touched on [Student] had

23 ESY when [Student] came to us; now that we're

24 drafting a new IEP, new objectives, that we would be

25 looking to defer the determination of ESY. So --

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1 Q. And why would we be deferring the

2 determination of ESY?

3 A. Based upon District practices.

4 Q. So District practice is not based upon

5 federal, state regulations, or your own -- or the

6 District's own General Guidelines, criteria or

7 specific guidelines?

8 MR. COHN-LEE: Well, I'm going to object

9 at this point. I think we are straying a bit into

10 testifying as opposed to asking a question.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: I think that there was a

12 question in there, but I think --

13 [PARENT]: I just went too far?

14 JUDGE HOUSE: No. I think that the

15 question that you're asking or that is relevant to

16 this IEP -- (to the witness) did you make that

17 decision based on [Student's] needs in this IEP to

18 defer that determination?

19 THE WITNESS: Yes.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: You just said it was based

21 on District practices. Why in [Student's] case?

22 THE WITNESS: To determine [Student's]

23 needs as related to ESY.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Why did it need to be

25 deferred? Not just "we needed data." Was there no

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1 data?

2 THE WITNESS: We had a brand new IEP we

3 were implementing. ESY would need to be determined

4 based on current IEP. So if we're just implementing

5 it, we do not have current data based on that IEP.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Do you consider

7 any data or any information on the Student's present

8 levels of performance and needs that may include --

9 sorry. I'm not going to speak without looking at

10 you. I'm thinking about how to phrase this. I'm

11 going to rephrase it.

12 Is it your statement that the only

13 information that you consider an IEP is information

14 that you collect from the point of the creation of

15 that IEP onward for determination of ESY services or

16 any other need of the child for education?

17 THE WITNESS: We would have a conversation

18 and professional input and parent input as related

19 to the student's needs based upon the IEP.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: If a student -- this is a

21 hypothetical because I don't know this history.

22 If a student had had ESY and had had ESY

23 for specific reasons that may pertain to a need for

24 ESY in a particular manner, would you have

25 considered that data?

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1 THE WITNESS: Yes, if we were afforded the

2 reasons and the data for that decision.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: Was that discussed by the

4 team during this meeting?

5 THE WITNESS: During this meeting, it was

6 brought up the continued difficulty we have had in

7 obtaining any prior documents other than only the

8 IEP that followed the Student.

9 We had substantial issues with acquiring

10 the permanent cum which Hawaii indicated they gave

11 to the Parent to deliver to us. We have no records,

12 no special education records that were provided by

13 other schools or agencies.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: So I think what you were

15 saying is if you have other information that might

16 indicate a necessity to discuss ESY to provide FAPE

17 at that meeting, you would have considered it?

18 THE WITNESS: Yes.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: Now, [Parent], you may not

20 have been asking that which -- it was triggered by

21 that question. So go ahead.

22 BY [PARENT]:

23 Q. So are you suggesting that at the November

24 20th meeting, you had no special education records

25 that were historical?

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1 A. No.

2 Q. Was there an evaluation, an initial

3 evaluation to determine special education

4 eligibility prior to this meeting?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Do you recall asking me to help you obtain

7 records from the Hawaii school district pertaining

8 to that evaluation?

9 A. On numerous occasions.

10 Q. Do you recall your staff receiving those

11 records?

12 A. Pieces and parts, yes.

13 Q. Did you have -- at the time of this

14 meeting on November 20th, did you have the IEP that

15 [Student] moved into the State of Oregon with that

16 was developed from Hawaii?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Did you provide ESY services with

19 [Student] during the summer of 2013 because it was

20 stated that [Student] received ESY services in

21 [Student's] IEP from Hawaii?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. So you did in fact have records,

24 historical in nature, that showed [Student] required

25 ESY services?

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1 A. Yes.

2 Q. You stated previously in response to

3 another question that the team would make the

4 decision of whether ESY -- [Student] is eligible for

5 ESY?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. However, in the November 23th IEP meeting,

8 the team did not make a decision relating to ESY?

9 JUDGE HOUSE: You had a question?

10 [PARENT]: Let me rephrase.

11 Q. Is it your contention that the team made

12 the -- let me rephrase again.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: May I ask?

14 [PARENT]: Yes.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: Is it your statement that

16 the team decided to defer the discussion of

17 eligibility?

18 THE WITNESS: Yes.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: At the November 20th

20 meeting?

21 THE WITNESS: The team, with disagreement

22 by the Parent.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. Then --

24 BY [PARENT]:

25 Q. If it's your statement that the team made

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1 the decision, why are no other members of the team

2 other than yourself and me, referenced under

3 "Discussion Action"?

4 A. I can't explain that.

5 Q. And you made a statement earlier that to

6 the best of your knowledge as you recall, maybe one

7 other person brought up something but that it wasn't

8 reflected in these notes?

9 A. Correct. That's what I recall.

10 Q. So even if one other person brought up

11 something pertaining to ESY, how do -- you still

12 deem it was a team decision when -- I'm sorry --

13 JUDGE HOUSE: You've asked the question.

14 Just let him answer.

15 BY [PARENT]:

16 Q. Yeah, I know. I'm waiting.

17 A. Yes. Yes.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. So he's answered

19 the question. You might not agree.

20 BY [PARENT]:

21 Q. The team decision can be made by two or

22 maybe three people, a team -- I'm going to stop

23 there. A team decision can be made by one, two, or

24 maybe three people in attendance at the IEP meeting?

25 A. They may be the only ones to speak up

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1 about it.

2 Q. Is it your understanding that development

3 of an IEP under federal and state regulations should

4 be based on a consensus of the IEP team?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Is it your belief two or maybe three

7 people out of nine is a consensus?

8 A. I believe I interpreted consensus at this

9 meeting and made the decision.

10 Q. So you interpreted consensus? There was

11 not a consensus of the team?

12 A. Is there a question?

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Did you interpret consensus?

14 THE WITNESS: Yes, I interpreted

15 consensus.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: And what data, from which

17 individuals, did you base consensus, the opinion of

18 consensus was formed?

19 THE WITNESS: What data from people?

20 JUDGE HOUSE: The team is discussing this,

21 and actually I think that at this point we don't

22 have evidence that more than one other person and

23 Parent.

24 You're saying you believe at that point

25 the team's consensus with the exception of Parent

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1 was to defer the IEP discussion. I think [Parent]

2 was asking what was the basis of that belief.

3 THE WITNESS: The basis of that belief I

4 would say based on no comments from others; my input

5 to, as part of the IEP team, to that; and minimal to

6 no comments from others on the school-represented

7 team to any disagreement with my opinion on that.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. [Parent]?

9 BY [PARENT]:

10 Q. So there was not consensus?

11 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent], his definition may

12 disagree with yours. At this point he said there

13 was consensus. You can tell me what you believe

14 later.

15 [PARENT]: Okay.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay?

17 BY [PARENT]:

18 Q. Was there meetings prior to this IEP

19 meeting -- planning, programming, anything like

20 that, prior to this IEP meeting in which ESY was

21 discussed amongst the District employees?

22 A. Not that I can recall.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to stop right

24 there. It's 12:30. That's a good stopping point,

25 and you can make a note of where we are. It's

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1 12:30, and we'll reconvene at 1:30.

2 (A lunch recess was taken from 12:30 p.m.

3 to 1:32 p.m.)

4 JUDGE HOUSE: We are back on the record.

5 And frequently some things will occur to

6 me while I'm at lunch. To maybe facilitate movement

7 a little bit -- I don't want to end up where we're

8 at the end of two days and we don't have what we

9 need.

10 And it's difficult when you're trying to

11 present a case from a parent who's not an attorney

12 and also from -- in a sense you're asking cross13 examination questions because there's pieces of

14 information that you want to get to that are really

15 -- in general, on direct you ask general questions,

16 and it's not -- you didn't ask for designation of a

17 District witness as hostile, meaning not that

18 they're hostile to you, but they're not your

19 witness.

20 I'm wondering if it wouldn't be more

21 helpful to either let Mr. Cohn-Lee go to general

22 questioning about the subject matter and then you

23 can follow up, or I'll just ask you to focus on --

24 what I've been understanding is that you're looking

25 at essentially questions of procedural defect at

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1 this point?

2 [PARENT]: Correct.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: And the essence is that even

4 if there is -- remember that even if there is a

5 procedural defect, that you have to have a

6 substantive effect or substantive failure for FAPE.

7 And I'm not saying you don't know law.

8 Actually you've done very well. It's just that's

9 what we need to show or what -- not "we." That's

10 your burden of proof.

11 And I want to make sure that you have the

12 opportunity to get to that.

13 So if there's a way that I can facilitate

14 questions -- not presenting your case. I might do

15 that just to kind of narrow -- or not narrow, but

16 ask the question in a general sense.

17 Or we could change the order of

18 questioning and allow the District to question the

19 witness, and then you would ask direct questions

20 following.

21 So I'll just give you that option. If you

22 want to proceed, just remember that you've kind of

23 got some time limitations.

24 [PARENT]: I'd prefer to proceed, if I

25 can, knowing that we have time limitations.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

2 [PARENT]: And obviously I'm a bad

3 estimator.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: No. It's hard. We don't

5 get it right. Lawyers don't get it right. Judges

6 don't get it right.

7 Just try to remember that, okay, if you've

8 gotten the answer, you've asked the question, the

9 witness won't necessarily answer the way you want

10 to.

11 What you're going to do later if you get

12 to that is testify and tell me what happened and why

13 you believe there is a failure. And it may be

14 different testimony. So you can testify as to what

15 you recall happening.

16 [PARENT]: Yeah.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: Rather than trying to get

18 the witness to say that for you if that makes sense.

19 [PARENT]: Uh-huh.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: If he recalls it one way,

21 that's what he recalls.

22 [PARENT]: Sure.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: It's his interpretation.

24 [PARENT]: Okay.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay? All right. So go

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1 ahead. And your last reference was to the prior

2 meeting --

3 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge, I'm just

4 wondering, along with that -- and I kind of

5 mentioned this to [Parent]. We were walking down the

6 hallway, and I mentioned a little bit about our time

7 limitations because I think the last spot we want to

8 be in is get to the end of two days and either the

9 District doesn't have time to complete his case or

10 [Parent] doesn't.

11 I'm wondering if we can build in maybe a

12 check-in point in a little bit just to kind of see

13 where we are, see if we're on pace, and then maybe

14 reevaluate.

15 Because my worry is, you know -- I totally

16 understand when you're asking questions, you tend to

17 get immersed in it and lose the track of time and

18 the flow of time.

19 But again, my worry is if we haven't even

20 really finished with [Parent's], you know, direct

21 today and then I get to ask my questions and we also

22 have other witnesses -- especially given the timing

23 importance of this case.

24 I mean one of the central tenets of

25 [Parent's] case is timing and getting a resolution

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1 within the due process timelines. And if we have to

2 schedule additional days, that's going to be shot.

3 So I'm just wondering if maybe we can

4 check in at some point and see where we are.

5 [PARENT]: I have no problem with a check6 in. I should wrap with Mr. Kolb fairly quickly.

7 I'm to a point where I don't have much left to ask.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

9 [PARENT]: And then I don't intend to call

10 myself. And that would leave me with only one other

11 witness.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. All right. And don't

13 let -- anything I've said doesn't mean that you

14 can't ask what you want to ask. I'm just saying

15 let's see if we can -- let's just see what we can do

16 about making sure we're on track.

17 Okay?

18 [PARENT]: I'd like to think I'm getting

19 quicker as we go.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: You're doing fine. Okay.

21 Go ahead. The last thing you had referenced was the

22 meetings prior to this IEP where the ESY was

23 discussed among the District.

24 And I believe the answer was something to

25 the effect of "No, not that I can recall." That's

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1 my "remembery" -- "remembery"? Good grief. Okay.

2 New words.

3 Anyway, so just starting somewhere in that

4 area.

5 [PARENT]: Okay.

6 Q. I'm not going to put "Mr. Kolb" in front

7 of every question. Okay? Is that all right with

8 you?

9 A. I'm okay with that.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: That's fine. Whatever's

11 faster.

12 BY [PARENT]:

13 Q. Would you agree that -- would you agree

14 that -- would you agree that parents have the same

15 rights as every other IEP member under federal and

16 state regulations?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Would you agree that parents have the

19 right to produce documentation and records that

20 should be reviewed by the IEP team under state and

21 federal regulations?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. All right. You previously -- am I correct

24 in assuming that you previously stated that -- you

25 previously stated ESY was not discussed at length in

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1 the November meeting due to lack of historical data,

2 that you made mention to the fact that you had no

3 records from Hawaii?

4 A. Very limited, yeah. We had the Priority

5 P.

6 Q. So do you recall us having conversations

7 prior to the November IEP meeting where we had

8 discussed that we were going to -- there was going

9 to be contention over ESY?

10 A. I do. I recall the topic coming up.

11 Q. Okay. So we discussed the fact that we

12 were probably not going to be in agreement on ESY

13 services prior to that IEP meeting?

14 A. I recall that being a definite concern

15 that was brought up by you.

16 Q. All right. And in the November 20th IEP

17 meeting, you had stated earlier that you had

18 consensus, so we scheduled the ESY review for the

19 April, wherever it happened to be, 20th; is that

20 correct?

21 MR. COHN-LEE: Well, I think that

22 misstates the record in terms of the April 20th date

23 but --

24 JUDGE HOUSE: It's April 16th.

25 BY [PARENT]:

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1 Q. April 16th?

2 A. 16th. According to the notes in front of

3 us, we agreed it didn't need to be determined then;

4 therefore we checked the box on the IEP, says "To be

5 determined at a later date," at which we identified

6 April 16th, by April 16th to determine the ESY.

7 Q. Okay. And would you agree that the final

8 point of the Discussion Action in "S" -- D-4 under

9 the "Discussion Action" is that the Parent is not in

10 consensus with that decision?

11 A. That date.

12 Q. Would you agree that the final statement

13 in the Discussion Action on this document is that

14 "The Parent is not in consensus with that decision"?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Okay. Would it have been within the law

17 as far as you understand federal and state

18 regulations to reconvene an IEP meeting in a couple

19 weeks or a month and include people from Hawaii that

20 had knowledge that you were lacking since you didn't

21 have the data that you wanted?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. But that was not a consideration? Was

24 that a consideration?

25 A. I don't know if it was a consideration by

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1 others on the team. It's not something I had

2 thought of.

3 Q. And to reiterate, others on the team

4 really didn't have much say that day in the ESY

5 discussion; is that correct?

6 A. And again, it was based on what I recall,

7 there was other -- at least one other had spoken to

8 it, but our notes don't reflect that.

9 Q. Would it have been within the law to

10 reconvene another IEP meeting in a couple weeks or a

11 month and have myself provide the documentation that

12 you were missing?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. That did not occur though; correct? No

15 additional IEP meetings --

16 A. Correct --

17 Q. -- were -- okay. Is that because the

18 decision had already been made in the IEP meeting to

19 not review ESY until April 16th, eligibility -- not

20 review ESY eligibility until April 16th?

21 A. As only one member of the IEP team, I can

22 only represent for myself that that could be a

23 contributing reason as to industry procedures as to

24 why other thoughts of considering ESY were not

25 entertained.

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1 Q. I'm only asking you because you had stated

2 that you had made the consensus. So I assumed you

3 spoke for --

4 A. I made a consensus for the meeting --

5 Q. -- a majority at the --

6 THE REPORTER: Okay. Would you please

7 wait until the question is --

8 THE WITNESS: Sure --

9 THE REPORTER: -- completely finished

10 before you answer. "I'm only asking you because you

11 had stated that you had made the consensus. So I"?

12 BY [PARENT]:

13 Q. You had made the consesus -- you stated

14 you had made the consensus previously for the team,

15 that it wouldn't not be discussed and that it would

16 be reviewed on April 16th?

17 MR. COHN-LEE: I am going to object to

18 that. I don't think that's an accurate statement of

19 testimony.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: I think it's possibly a

21 miss- -- it's too vague and too unclear.

22 [PARENT]: I retract, Your Honor.

23 JUDGE HOUSE: And I also think it's been

24 asked and answered.

25 [PARENT]: Bear with me while I move to --

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Sure --

2 [PARENT]: -- other.

3 Q. I'm going to refer to S-13. Do you need a

4 copy?

5 MR. COHN-LEE: Yeah, [Parent], you need to

6 provide the witness with a copy of the exhibits.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: It is standard. If you

8 don't have a copy --

9 [PARENT]: I have. I have copies of

10 everything.

11 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

12 BY [PARENT]:

13 Q. Do you recognize this document?

14 A. I do.

15 Q. What is this document?

16 A. "Prior Notice of Special Education

17 Action."

18 Q. Under "This action is proposed because a

19 meeting was held to discuss an FBA that was done and

20 Parent had requested to discuss transition at Grants

21 Pass High School and ESY."

22 Is that correct to the best of your

23 knowledge what the meeting was going to be about --

24 discuss the FBA, discuss transition to Grants Pass

25 High School, and discuss ESY?

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1 A. That is correct.

2 Q. Okay. To the best of your knowledge,

3 there was a meeting invitation -- correct? -- for

4 this meeting?

5 A. To the best of my knowledge.

6 Q. I had requested that in discovery, but I

7 don't believe I received a copy of it; so I can't

8 reference it.

9 But if -- these things under "Action is

10 Proposed Because" would have been on the notice of

11 meeting -- the review the FBA, that the Parent

12 requested to discuss the transmission to Grants Pass

13 High School, and ESY?

14 A. The purpose of the meeting?

15 Q. Right, in the meeting request, the meeting

16 notice, they would have had the same information as

17 this action is proposed?

18 A. Related information. I don't have it in

19 front of me. So --

20 JUDGE HOUSE: Let me ask a question. That

21 is one of the documents that would have been

22 requested was whatever you sent out to indicate this

23 meeting is going to occur and who's going to attend

24 and why it happens.

25 Is there a reason why we don't have it?

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1 THE WITNESS: That document was handed to

2 [Parent] last week Thursday.

3 [PARENT]: I didn't receive it.

4 THE WITNESS: It was in that stack.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Do you have that document

6 with you?

7 MS. LUKA: It's in the District exhibits,

8 I believe.

9 [PARENT]: I was looking for it, but I

10 only see meeting notice, the same prior notice that

11 we're looking at now.

12 MR. COHN-LEE: We've got the meeting

13 notice for the April 10th, but it didn't include the

14 March 18th meeting. We've got the meeting minutes

15 and then the prior notice as well, but we didn't

16 include the meeting notice.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: Just a moment.

18 MS. LUKA: That was the -- it's evidenced

19 by the emails. The emails were attached to it that

20 --

21 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm sorry. We can't have an

22 individual testifying. (To the witness) But your

23 testimony is that there was a meeting notice?

24 THE WITNESS: Yes.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: And that document was

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1 provided to [Parent] Thursday, last week?

2 THE WITNESS: It was provided prior to the

3 meeting, to the best of my knowledge. I'm not the

4 case manager.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Right.

6 THE WITNESS: To the best of my knowledge,

7 it would have been provided prior to the meeting

8 itself.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. But at this

10 point this was a question of discovery in which

11 [Parent] had asked for a copy of -- which would have

12 included that document.

13 Was a copy provided in response to the

14 direction of a motion?

15 THE WITNESS: Yes. Thursday afternoon a

16 stack of information was provided to [Parent] by my

17 administrative assistant, Emily Luka.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: But you didn't look at each

19 document, and so you don't know if it had that one

20 in it?

21 THE WITNESS: I looked at the stack of

22 documents prior to her asking "how do we need to get

23 these to them." I said, "At this rate we're going to

24 have to hand-deliver because it's too late to mail."

25 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. And --

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1 THE WITNESS: And I looked through those.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: And you believe it was in

3 that document --

4 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: And did you, [Parent],

6 submit that or have a copy of that now?

7 [PARENT]: No. I would have made it an

8 exhibit if I had been able to find it in the stack.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. We'll just have

10 to do without it. Apparently the testimony is under

11 oath right now he gave it to you.

12 BY [PARENT]:

13 Q. Do you recall -- no. I retract.

14 To the best of your knowledge, was I

15 coming to this meeting expecting that we would

16 discuss ESY?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Thank you. Same Exhibit, S-13, other

19 options we considered were -- well, let's go through

20 it. The actions from the meeting were spelled out,

21 and they had to do with the FBA.

22 Other options they considered were not

23 conducting a meeting and my request to determine ESY

24 at this meeting, the Parent's request to determine

25 ESY at this meeting.

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1 And then to discuss ESY is under "We

2 rejected these options because ESY will be

3 determined consistent with the dates indicated in

4 the current IEP"; is that correct?

5 A. That's how this document reads, correct.

6 Q. To the best of your knowledge, in that

7 meeting that was held on -- it was the 18th;

8 correct?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. My date for the prior written notice says

11 the 31st.

12 Do you recall the meeting of the 18th?

13 A. I do.

14 Q. Do you recall me wanting to discuss ESY at

15 that meeting?

16 A. I do.

17 Q. Was ESY discussed at that meeting?

18 A. Eligibility was not discussed at that

19 meeting. Whether or not to determine eligibility was

20 discussed at that meeting.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: You said "eligibility." Did

22 you say ESY?

23 [PARENT]: I said "ESY." He said

24 "eligibility."

25 THE WITNESS: Eligibility for ESY.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Now you answered him.

2 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

3 Eligibility for ESY was not discussed at

4 that meeting. Whether or not to consider

5 eligibility for ESY was discussed at that meeting.

6 BY [PARENT]:

7 Q. So what was the extent of the discussion

8 regarding ESY at that meeting to the best of your

9 recollection?

10 A. To the best of my recollection, a few

11 others may have chimed in regarding the need to

12 continue to collect data for a second break and

13 service and, as the District rep agreeing to

14 disagree on this, made a determination to adhere to

15 the determination of making the determination April

16 16 -- the determination by April 16th.

17 [PARENT]: I'm sorry. I have the minutes.

18 So are we going to do the same thing with your

19 minutes?

20 Do you have the minutes, Rich? Because I

21 have that one page of minutes again.

22 MR. COHN-LEE: Yeah, probably need to,

23 [Parent]. Again, I prefer we were dealing with a

24 complete document.

25 Yeah, D-5 is the complete minutes for the

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1 meeting.

2 [PARENT]: The pages are probably going to

3 be out of order again.

4 MR. COHN-LEE: They might, yeah.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: That's all right. We'll

6 deal with them. S-13, any objections from the

7 District?

8 MR. COHN-LEE: Yeah. I think we just

9 determined that it's incomplete; so I guess I would

10 object.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: No. "S" --

12 MR. COHN-LEE: Oh. S-13, no. Prior

13 notice? No objection to that.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you.

15 (Whereupon, Parent's Exhibit S-13 was

16 admitted into evidence.)

17 [PARENT]: So my S-14 is now D-5?

18 MR. COHN-LEE: And so we're withdrawing S19 14 --

20 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you --

21 MR. COHN-LEE: -- and using D-5 instead.

22 (Whereupon, Parent's Exhibit S-14 was

23 withdrawn from evidence.)

24 BY [PARENT]:

25 Q. So on page 8 of 9 in Exhibit D-5, it

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1 appears that on the left on "Extended School Year

2 Discussion," and then I assume the center part is

3 what occurred -- I retract.

4 Do you recall who was in that meeting, Mr.

5 Kolb?

6 A. Recall Kirby Erickson, Dorothy Jewell,

7 Doug Ely, myself, yourself. Lee Erickson? I think

8 that's -- no. Lee Savage, independent evaluator.

9 And off the top of my head, I don't recall anyone

10 else --

11 Q. The teacher? Teacher would have been in

12 there; right?

13 A. Yes, Dorothy Jewell.

14 Q. Okay.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: As a matter of procedure, is

16 it normal to list the attendees on the first page of

17 the --

18 [PARENT]: Apparently it is, yes. Sorry.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: That's all right. I'm just

20 doing it because I know that's where to look for it.

21 (To the witness) So if those individuals are listed,

22 did they attend?

23 THE WITNESS: "Attendees": yes, yes, yes,

24 yes, yes, yes, and yes.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. So we're looking

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1 at page 8 of 9?

2 BY [PARENT]:

3 Q. Under the "Extended School Year

4 Discussion," the first note is that "KK explained

5 that the IEP is accepted on 11/20 with the mediator,

6 was agreed that the team would meet on the 16th to

7 determine an ESY."

8 So ESY wasn't discussed -- was ESY -- I'm

9 sorry. Let me rephrase this.

10 The extent of the discussion of ESY in

11 this meeting was you stating that ESY would not be

12 discussed until April 16th; is that fair to say?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Okay.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: And a more general question.

16 THE WITNESS: Sure.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: What was discussed about ESY

18 at this meeting to your memory?

19 THE WITNESS: To my memory it was rehashed

20 of the original determination of why the District

21 team noted [Parent's] disagreement on November 20th,

22 indicated why they needed to make a determination

23 after spring break.

24 So that was refreshed at the meeting at

25 that point. Without hearing any further input from

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1 the school team, hearing -- again noting [Parent's]

2 desires, recognizing that they're in conflict, made

3 District rep determination to afford the District a

4 second break to collect data and make the

5 determination by April 16th.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent]?

7 BY [PARENT]:

8 Q. Again, as in the meeting in November, it

9 appears that the only people according to this

10 record that were discussing ESY were you and I;

11 would you agree to that?

12 A. I agree, according to this record.

13 Q. And would you agree that the record is

14 correct on that?

15 A. It's my recollection, again, cannot recall

16 specific comments from others.

17 Q. So you would agree that the record is

18 correct?

19 A. I would agree that the record is

20 reasonably correct.

21 Q. Would you agree that data existed on March

22 18th?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. If data existed on March 18th, why could a

25 discussion about ESY not have occurred?

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1 A. So regression/recoupment data was

2 collected for the winter break. The most recent IEP

3 had just been developed and had fewer than probably

4 three total, four total weeks of implementation,

5 substantial changes, and instructional goals.

6 And so data was collected and existed.

7 And your question is why -- can you please

8 restate that question. I'm trying to --

9 JUDGE HOUSE: He asked why not talk about

10 it then.

11 BY [PARENT]:

12 Q. If it existed, why couldn't ESY have been

13 discussed at that meeting?

14 A. Data -- ESY could have been further

15 discussed at that meeting.

16 Q. And it was not discussed. Why was it not

17 discussed?

18 A. There was a disagreement between the

19 District and the Parent, yourself, on whether or not

20 additional regression/recoupment data was necessary.

21 Q. Do you feel that, in your opinion, that

22 disagreement regarding whether additional data was

23 required -- let me rephrase this. Strike that. I'm

24 sorry.

25 You mentioned previously in your statement

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1 that as of March 18th, only three to four weeks of

2 data was gathered?

3 A. No.

4 Q. There was --

5 A. As of Christmas break, the first

6 regression/recoupment data collection, only three to

7 four weeks of the new IEP was implemented prior to

8 the start of that break in instruction.

9 Q. And you contend that ESY can only be

10 determined on the currently active IEP?

11 A. That ESY -- our -- that ESY decisions are

12 based on the identified needs of the Student on the

13 current IEP, yes.

14 [PARENT]: Okay. I have a question for

15 the court.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: Go ahead.

17 [PARENT]: I have data that -- I have data

18 to show that there was data in a manner that could

19 be --

20 JUDGE HOUSE: That's why I asked you about

21 testifying.

22 [PARENT]: So I can't get it in unless I

23 testify, is that --

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Well, I can't help you with

25 your case.

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1 [PARENT]: I understand.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: The District is giving you

3 the answers the District is giving you. So if

4 there's something else out there that's pertinent

5 they're not telling you, it has to come from you.

6 [PARENT]: So since we didn't decide on

7 whether they were going to accept all the exhibits

8 in the beginning -- correct?

9 JUDGE HOUSE: Right.

10 [PARENT]: -- does my S-20 through S-27

11 become part of the record anyway without me

12 questioning somebody about it or without me

13 testifying to it?

14 JUDGE HOUSE: If there's no foundation

15 from anyone as to what these are, they wouldn't be

16 admitted. So someone has to tell me what they are,

17 and if the District doesn't offer them, that would

18 be --

19 [PARENT]: Okay. I understand --

20 JUDGE HOUSE: -- you.

21 [PARENT]: Bear with me, please.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: Sure. If there's something

23 in these cases, [Parent] -- it's not strictly

24 adhered to. If something comes to you that you need

25 to ask a witness -- and the District can do the same

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1 thing -- you can ask them later.

2 Just make a note of it if you recall it

3 and then go, "I didn't ask this, but it's relevant

4 to what I was trying to get to."

5 It won't go on forever, and it won't go

6 past two days. But I don't want you to get hung up

7 in thinking that's it's life or death that you ask

8 every single question right now.

9 [PARENT]: Okay.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: You need to ask your

11 questions, but to the extent one or two items come

12 up later, you can ask those, or they may come up in

13 cross-examination. I don't know if that helps you

14 get to the next phase.

15 [PARENT]: Sure, it does. I don't think I

16 have any further questions for Mr. Kolb.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. What we'll do is

18 I want to see if -- it's only been 35 minutes, but I

19 do want to take into account the court reporter.

20 Will you let me know if you need a break?

21 THE REPORTER: Okay. I'm okay now.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. We'll continue

23 with Mr. Kolb, and I'll keep an eye out, and maybe

24 by 3:00 if not earlier. All right?

25 [PARENT]: I'm sorry. I have another

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1 matter.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: Oh.

3 [PARENT]: So I have another opportunity

4 to ask questions of Mr. Kolb after Mr. Cohn-Lee is

5 finished?

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes. It's called

7 "Redirect," or it could be "Re-cross." In these

8 situations, the name of it is not important. If

9 it's to clarify what has been testified to, that's

10 allowed.

11 If it's completely not been addressed, I

12 just gave you permission to ask some of those.

13 [PARENT]: Okay.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: Not too many because Mr.

15 Cohn-Lee will always have the right to cross-examine

16 on that point.

17 [PARENT]: Okay.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. Go ahead.

19 CROSS-EXAMINATION

20 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

21 Q. So, Mr. Kolb, are you okay continuing now,

22 or do you want to take a little break?

23 A. Yeah, I'm okay.

24 Q. Are you sure?

25 A. Yeah.

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1 Q. I'm going to try to fill in some of the

2 gaps that [Parent] covered with you, and let's start

3 at the beginning regarding your background. [Parent]

4 already covered your current position but didn't

5 really touch on some of the other background

6 information.

7 If you could, paint us a thumbnail sketch

8 of your responsibilities as director of special

9 education for the District.

10 A. Sure. I'm oversight of all District-wide

11 programs for special education, hiring staff,

12 evaluating staff, implementing, you know, ensuring

13 compliance with IDEA.

14 And additionally implementing new

15 programs, directing resources. How else. Yeah. So

16 conclude there.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. Did you ask my history?

19 Q. Yeah, I'm going to get into that in just a

20 moment, yeah.

21 So let's go back a little further though

22 and paint a thumbnail sketch of your education

23 starting with college forward?

24 A. Okay. So graduated with a degree in

25 special education. I went out and taught selfCase 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 157 of 335
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1 contained, sight-based classrooms for special

2 education in the State of Oregon and resource room

3 programs, general education teacher in Oregon.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: If you can slow down just a

5 bit.

6 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: It's okay.

8 THE WITNESS: Then became an

9 administrator. Was actually a special education

10 coordinator for Medford School District for a year,

11 at which time I was recruited back to Grants Pass

12 School District to be an assistant principal at the

13 middle school for three years.

14 Then assistant principal at the high

15 school for three years. I've been an elementary

16 principal for a year, and then was asked to be the

17 director of special education services with Grants

18 Pass, and have been serving in that capacity for the

19 past roughly three years.

20 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

21 Q. And I want to shift gears now a little bit

22 and talk specifically about the student, [Student].

23 What has been your involvement or

24 responsibilities with regard to [Student's]

25 educational services?

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1 A. I was initially contacted by [Parent],

2 notifying us of their move to Grants Pass School

3 District and his inquiry about resuming extended

4 school year services and basically beginning the

5 conversations of what next school year might look

6 like, but the priority being establishing extended

7 school year services as our best effort to implement

8 the Hawaii IEP.

9 At which time location services deemed --

10 or the District office actually. We were able to

11 provide support staff in an empty office at the

12 District office, which happened to be right next to

13 my office.

14 And so as a result I got to see [Student]

15 on a daily basis while [Student] was attending ESY

16 as well as spelling staff. Specifically during

17 lunch, doing observations of [Student] on one or two

18 occasions, may have blocked his attempts to bolt

19 from the building or the staff [Student] was working

20 with at the given time.

21 Q. Okay. And just quickly, what is

22 [Student's] disabling condition or category?

23 A. [Student] is currently identified as a

24 student significantly impacted with autism spectrum.

25 Q. When exactly did [Student] move to Oregon?

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1 A. [Student] -- I think the plane landed on

2 June 27th of 2013.

3 Q. And when did [Student] first enroll in the

4 District?

5 A. The first Monday after the 4th of July; so

6 I believe that would have been Monday, July 7th.

7 Q. Now, as a general matter, how does the

8 District handle out-of-state transfers?

9 A. We -- we take a look at the IEP that comes

10 with the student and implement the services as

11 listed in that IEP.

12 Q. Okay. And a related question: Why did

13 the District provide ESY for [Student] during the

14 summer of 2013?

15 A. [Student's] Hawaii IEP indicated

16 [Student's] need for extended school year service,

17 and we wanted to make no haste in immediately

18 implement that IEP as we were -- had the student

19 arrive during -- when [Student] would normally have

20 been scheduled for services according to the Hawaii

21 IEP.

22 Q. Okay. Again, I want to shift gears once

23 again and move a little bit forward in time to

24 November of 2013.

25 Okay?

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1 Take a look at Exhibit D-3, so the black

2 binder in front of you.

3 And before we even do that, take a look at

4 Exhibit D-2.

5 A. (Witness complies.)

6 Q. What's D-2?

7 A. D-2 is notice of the team meeting, IEP

8 team.

9 Q. And for which meeting?

10 A. This [Student's] would be for the meeting

11 scheduled for Wednesday, November 20th, 2013.

12 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. I'd offer Exhibit D13 2.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: Any objections, [Parent]?

15 [PARENT]: No objections.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: It's admitted.

17 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-2 was

18 offered and admitted into evidence.)

19 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

20 Q. Let's move to D-3. What is D-3?

21 A. D-3 is the IEP that was developed at the

22 meeting on November 20th, 2013.

23 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. I offer D-3.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent]?

25 [PARENT]: No objections.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. It's admitted.

2 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-3 was

3 offered and admitted into evidence.)

4 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

5 Q. What was the purpose of D-3?

6 A. D-3, [Student] was a new student to the

7 State of Oregon. An eligibility was conducted. An

8 eligibility determination was conducted the day

9 prior on November 19th.

10 And we wanted not to waste any time,

11 comply with statutes, and get a new IEP developed

12 and implemented according to Oregon standards and

13 processes and procedures.

14 Q. And when you mean "eligibility," you're

15 referring in this particular instance to [Student's]

16 eligibility for special education services in

17 Oregon; is that correct?

18 A. In Oregon, that is correct.

19 Q. Okay. Okay.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: And I want to just make sure

21 I understand that correctly.

22 There was an eligibility determination the

23 prior day?

24 THE WITNESS: Correct.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

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1 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

2 Q. Now, we've already heard from your

3 colloquy with [Parent] that there was an ODE4 appointed facilitator at this meeting named --

5 actually for the record it's Julie Gentili-Armbrust.

6 There's a hyphen in there, and I think it's spelled

7 out in the meeting notes.

8 But why did you decide to contract with a

9 mediator -- rather, facilitator from ODE?

10 A. The reason for that -- it was my idea

11 because I knew it was available through the Oregon

12 Department of Education. [Parent] and the District

13 had -- I guess things hadn't gone super smooth in

14 terms of communication and his interpretation of

15 services being provided.

16 And quite possibly my perception of his

17 unhappiness with how things were going, I initiated

18 with [Parent] the opportunity to have a facilitated

19 IEP meeting by somebody appointed through the Oregon

20 Department of Education, a neutral party, in hoping

21 that might be more productive in getting --

22 accomplishing a quality IEP for [Student].

23 Q. And was it your understanding and

24 impression that Ms. Armbrust was someone that was

25 appointed and was essentially a representative from

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1 ODE?

2 A. Yes, that is correct.

3 Q. And was it your impression that Ms.

4 Armbrust was familiar with generalized special

5 education law and procedure, including ESY?

6 A. She came across as extensively

7 knowledgeable.

8 Q. Again, within this IEP meeting, I want to

9 hone in further on the specific discussions

10 regarding ESY. And I'm going to have you take a

11 look at Exhibit D-4.

12 And in the interest of time-saving, we've

13 previously identified this as meeting minutes from

14 the November 20th, 2013, IEP meeting, and I think

15 you used this during your colloquy with [Parent].

16 I'm going to have you shift forward to

17 page 23 of 24.

18 A. (Witness complies.)

19 Q. And have you focus in on the paragraph

20 regarding "Extended School Year" under "Agenda

21 Item."

22 Do you see that there?

23 A. I do.

24 Q. So did you in fact discuss ESY at the

25 November 20th meeting?

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1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What was the substance of the discussion?

3 A. The substance of that discussion was

4 ultimately the District felt that data was necessary

5 to make ESY determinations if at all available. And

6 so I think [Parent] agreed with that in essence.

7 And as this statement here indicates, I

8 believe my understanding of this statement and

9 recall of what happened is [Parent] agreed that it

10 did not need to be determined that day but at a date

11 to be determined later.

12 As that discussion went on --

13 Q. Let me stop you there for one moment.

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. In looking at the particular entries in

16 here, there is an entry indicating, "RP indicated he

17 does not want to determine that now but is agreeable

18 to discuss ESY after spring break."

19 That was [Parent's] statement?

20 A. That was his initial statement.

21 Q. When you said, "he does not want to

22 determine that now," "that" was ESY?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. So in fact it was your understanding at

25 that meeting that there was agreement by the entire

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1 team, including the Parent, that it was not

2 necessary to determine ESY at that November time

3 point; correct?

4 A. That is correct.

5 Q. Now, I'd like to talk a little bit about

6 Julie Gentili-Armbrust's feedback and comments

7 during this colloquy. Okay?

8 Using these notes as a reference, what

9 exactly -- how did Julie Gentili-Armbrust assist the

10 team in this discussion?

11 A. Julie shared related practices based on

12 her knowledge of other districts in the State of

13 Oregon.

14 And what she noted was accepted practices

15 by the Oregon Department of Education as needing to

16 collect data to support ESY decision-making and that

17 a date -- a later date in time could be determined

18 to make those decisions.

19 Q. Okay. During this colloquy, did the

20 Parent have the opportunity to provide input?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And in fact based on these entries, did

23 [Parent] provide input?

24 A. Yes, he did.

25 Q. Now, we'd indicated that there was at

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1 least some -- there was agreement that November --

2 at that point did not require an ESY determination,

3 but then we discussed spring break, and there's some

4 commentary from [Parent] about "He's agreeable to

5 discuss ESY after spring break."

6 But ultimately there was disagreement by

7 the Parent regarding the selection of April 16th as

8 the date by which ESY would be considered; correct?

9 A. Yes, that is correct.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to back up and ask

11 a question, Mr. Cohn-Lee.

12 MR. COHN-LEE: Yeah.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Because this is wording,

14 notes taken by a District individual. "KK indicated

15 that if we address ESY prior to April, it will only

16 include data results for winter break. RP indicated

17 he does not want to determine that now but is

18 agreeable to discuss ESY after spring break."

19 MR. COHN-LEE: Correct.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: I understood your testimony

21 to say that Parent is referring to the discussion of

22 ESY and the -- as being the "that."

23 Is that your recollection, or is that from

24 your reading of this statement?

25 THE WITNESS: Can you identify which

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1 sentence you're referring to?

2 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. It's the second and

3 third statements. It's actually the whole

4 paragraph.

5 THE WITNESS: "RP indicated he does not

6 want to determine that" --

7 JUDGE HOUSE: "That" --

8 THE WITNESS: -- "now" --

9 JUDGE HOUSE: -- "now" --

10 THE REPORTER: Okay. One at a time,

11 please. "RP indicated [Student] does not want to

12 determine that now."

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Sorry. "That" is an unclear

14 antecedent, and it could refer to a lot of things.

15 My question is: From your memory, do you

16 remember what "that" was, or are you interpreting it

17 from this note?

18 THE WITNESS: No, I recall that.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. And so your

20 recollection is now that Parent didn't want to

21 discuss ESY at this time?

22 THE WITNESS: Correct. Make the

23 determination.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Can you further explain

25 that?

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1 THE WITNESS: As Ms. Julie Gentili2 Armbrust shared, she actually opened the dialogue

3 for this topic area with this common practices for

4 students who are new to the state and District.

5 Conversation quickly went to it was

6 acceptable to not make a determination of ESY by

7 [Parent] and the District.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. So in this case Ms.

9 Armbrust is actually saying to the parties "this is

10 what is within the parameters of acceptable."

11 And then Mister -- or Parent responded,

12 essentially responded to that information.

13 Was it your understanding that if Parent

14 could have had ESY discussion at this time, he

15 wanted that, or was there a negative inference that

16 if it was determined now it wouldn't happen? Was

17 there any --

18 THE WITNESS: No --

19 JUDGE HOUSE: -- inferences to that --

20 THE WITNESS: -- no.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: So when you are writing --

22 or the note said "he did not want to determine that

23 now," go ahead and tell me what "that" was.

24 THE WITNESS: A determination for extended

25 school year services.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

2 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

3 Q. And flowing from the judge's questioning,

4 so we established that at that time there appeared

5 to be consensus that it was not necessary to make

6 the ESY determination as of November 20th. [Parent]

7 had a concern with waiting until April 16th; is that

8 correct?

9 A. That is correct.

10 Q. Okay. And in fact what was [Parent's]

11 concern when he heard about the proposal to have a

12 consideration date of April 16th?

13 A. His concern was that didn't afford him

14 time to file due process and render a decision as to

15 the substantive outcome should they not be in his

16 favor.

17 Q. And you indicated previously that in fact

18 you did recall at least one other person had brought

19 up this issue of a need for data collection. We'll

20 hear from other witnesses about team participation.

21 But at a minimum, during his colloquy, do

22 you recall any member of the team, other than

23 [Parent], speaking up and disagreeing with that

24 colloquy?

25 A. Disagreeing with the colloquy of --

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1 Q. The need to collect data and the need to

2 prudently wait until April 16th.

3 A. Yes. I -- I recall others speaking up. I

4 do not know exactly who. But data was referenced by

5 one or more of the Grants Pass team members at the

6 table at that time.

7 Q. And bottom line, at the end of that

8 colloquy, did any of those team members from the

9 District -- I understand [Parent] did not agree.

10 But any other District members, did any of

11 them voice disagreement with that ultimate proposal

12 to have a decision by April 16th?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Again, focusing in on how this District

15 determines ESY in the first place, generally, what

16 is your understanding as to the basis for

17 determining whether a student qualifies for ESY in

18 Oregon?

19 A. In Oregon, based on the OARs, the OARs

20 looked at progression --

21 [PARENT]: I object.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: Pardon?

23 [PARENT]: I object.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. And why?

25 [PARENT]: Object to the question in the

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1 inference of how it's determined in Oregon, plays no

2 specific role in how it's determined in this

3 specific District.

4 MR. COHN-LEE: Actually, [Parent] had

5 extensive colloquy about what the Oregon regulations

6 do or don't require with regard to ESY. I think

7 it's fair for the witness to respond to that.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to overrule, and

9 for another reason: As a director of special

10 services, he has to have knowledge of what he

11 believes Oregon's policies are.

12 [PARENT]: Okay.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Go ahead.

14 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

15 Q. So, I'm sorry.

16 A. Please restate the question.

17 Q. Sorry. Yeah. What is your understanding

18 as to the basis for determining whether a student

19 qualifies for ESY in Oregon?

20 A. The basis for determining ESY is

21 regression and recoupment of targeted skills and

22 behavior.

23 Q. And just generally, are you aware from

24 trainings and from reading decisions, are you aware

25 whether other states or different states may have

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1 different standards or bases for making ESY

2 determinations?

3 A. Yes. I am aware things are done

4 differently state by state, possibly region by

5 region around the country.

6 Q. Okay. What I'd like to do is have you

7 focus in on Exhibit D-1. And you've looked at this

8 document previously, the copy that was in the

9 Parent's binder while I'm using the District

10 reference.

11 And could you just identify D-1.

12 A. D-1 is the school year guidance and the

13 special education handbook provided to all special

14 education providers in our District.

15 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. I'd offer Exhibit --

16 actually, you know what? Let's proceed.

17 Q. So that's page 1 and 2. What's on page 3?

18 A. Page 3 is the ESY plan. It shows a

19 student being identified as needing extended school

20 year services. This would be the plan to implement

21 those services and provide to ensure they get ESY.

22 Q. Page 4 and 5, these are the same pages

23 that [Parent] brought up. I think he had labeled

24 them as a separate Parent Exhibit.

25 But in fact these four documents, are they

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1 an integrated, as far as the District's special

2 education --

3 A. Yes, they are.

4 MR. COHN-LEE: I'd offer Exhibit D-1 at

5 this time.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Any objections?

7 [PARENT]: No.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: It's entered.

9 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-1 was

10 offered and admitted into evidence.)

11 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

12 Q. Looking at page 1 of D-1, when you talk

13 about the need to measure recoupment and regression

14 information data, what is your understanding of what

15 "regression" means?

16 A. "Regression" would be a loss of skills or

17 abilities to demonstrate identified areas that we

18 measure.

19 Q. Is it your understanding that regression

20 means any loss of skills?

21 A. The term "regression" in and of itself is

22 a loss of skills.

23 Q. Okay. And can it be any loss or

24 regression, however small?

25 A. However small or however, yeah, dramatic,

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1 a loss is considered a regression. We have kids

2 with reading summer regression, both special ed and

3 non-special ed. So --

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. And if you look above under "Criteria For

7 ESY Services" in the No. 1, there's a reference to

8 "Student must demonstrate undue regression and

9 recoupment of a skill."

10 Again, what is your understanding of the

11 term "undue"?

12 A. "Undue," I believe -- I believe and we

13 provide guidance to discuss as an IEP team --

14 significant, a large amount of regression, and an

15 inability to recoup or regain those skills or

16 behaviors back within a reasonable period of time.

17 Q. Based on your experience as an educator

18 both in and out of the Grants Pass School District

19 and your experiences within the District, is it

20 unusual for all students, whether or not special ed

21 or otherwise, to demonstrate some regression after a

22 significant break such as a summer break?

23 A. It is not unusual.

24 Q. Okay. And therefore, when we're talking

25 about the term of "RESY" and whether a student

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1 qualifies for ESY, is that the kind of regression

2 we're talking about?

3 A. No.

4 Q. What is regression, "undue regression" as

5 defined by the regulations?

6 (Cell phone rang.)

7 [PARENT]: Sorry.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: It's all right.

9 THE WITNESS: Substantial, to the point at

10 which it's evident by the professionals and the team

11 involved in supporting that child that without

12 maintenance it significantly impacts their ability

13 to receive FAPE.

14 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

15 Q. Okay. Would you describe it as an unusual

16 --

17 A. Unusual, significant, yes.

18 Q. And likewise would the same apply for the

19 recoupment?

20 A. Yes, yes.

21 Q. And to you what does "recoupment" means?

22 A. "Recoupment" means to be able to re-access

23 or re-demonstrate or move back to a level of

24 performance or performance range just prior to the

25 break in service.

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1 Q. Okay. There was a -- let me ask you this:

2 I think there was a suggestion by [Parent] that it

3 would be sufficient to base the ESY decision --

4 whether in November or after the winter break, at

5 some point before April -- that would have been

6 sufficient to base an ESY decision on the fact that

7 [Student] had received services in the summer of

8 2013.

9 In your opinion, why would or wouldn't

10 that be appropriate?

11 A. I don't believe that would be appropriate

12 because hopefully things -- kids are getting better.

13 They're able to recoup and recover and gain skills

14 over time pending the individual growth of that

15 student.

16 So the need for ESY, it should be

17 revisited annually to identify what are the areas of

18 skill and need specifically for that student based

19 on the comprehensive development of the IEP.

20 Q. I think you testified before that the

21 District stood in the position to provide ESY

22 services because it received the Hawaii IEP and it

23 was still the current IEP in effect when [Student]

24 arrived during the summer of 2013.

25 But in order to make a determination of

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1 that continuing ESY services for summer of 2014,

2 what would be your concerns about using that -- the

3 document you did receive from the Hawaii school

4 district?

5 A. There was no reference to data,

6 determination, what was determined that the student

7 needed to continued maintenance and support in. It

8 only stated that ESY services need to be provided

9 after a ten-day break in service.

10 Q. And for example, did the Hawaii IEP

11 contain any actual data such as recoupment or

12 regression data?

13 A. No.

14 Q. You had mentioned that you had received

15 relatively few documents from the Hawaii school

16 district, either from the school district or from

17 the Parent.

18 In fact had you made efforts to retain the

19 full records from the Hawaii school district?

20 A. Yes. Records request from every building

21 that was associated with the Kailua school and/or

22 district at multiple levels and efforts. We had a

23 request for records to everybody we possibly could,

24 and to no avail.

25 Q. Okay. What did the Kailua, Hawaii, School

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1 District inform you about the status of records and

2 how you could obtain them?

3 A. That they provided the records to the

4 Parent to bring to the new school district since the

5 student would be resuming services immediately upon

6 enrolling with us.

7 Q. And in fact did you ever receive the type

8 of information you're referencing from the Parent?

9 A. No.

10 Q. So was there any way in your view or the

11 team's view to validate whether or why the District

12 concluded that [Student] needed ESY services?

13 A. No. There was no way for us to be -- have

14 that information as to why that determination was

15 made for ESY.

16 Q. And staying on this topic a little bit

17 more and just talking about this general concept,

18 [Parent] I think is making the argument that

19 historical data could serve as the basis for

20 qualifying Student for extended school year

21 services.

22 Let me just ask you as an initial

23 foundational question, in your position, are

24 children -- are students static? Do they stay the

25 same over time necessarily?

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1 A. No. Hopefully we're educating them, and

2 they're growing and gaining skills and improving.

3 Q. Well, I'm going to turn around the

4 question I guess a little bit.

5 In your view as a special education

6 director, would it be defensible for the District to

7 say that, for example, because a student did not

8 qualify for extended school year services during the

9 summer of 2013, that based on that information, that

10 student should not qualify for ESY during the summer

11 of 2014?

12 A. That wouldn't be reasonable.

13 Q. Why not?

14 A. Based on that student's needs throughout

15 the year, the identified needs based on the team's

16 decisions, development of goals, objectives, and

17 services should guide that determination as to

18 whether or not the identified skills are recoupable,

19 or recouping.

20 Q. And in your experience and certainly in

21 this particular case, is it not true that students'

22 educational needs change over time?

23 A. Absolutely.

24 Q. And in fact in this case, while [Student]

25 arrived with a Hawaii IEP that was in effect for

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1 roughly -- September, October, and part of November,

2 so maybe about three months, in fact the team did

3 convene an IEP meeting on November 20th, 2013;

4 correct?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. And during that time were [Student's]

7 goals and objectives substantially revised?

8 A. Significantly, absolutely.

9 Q. So would it be comparing apples and

10 oranges to be necessarily looking at what his needs

11 were under the Hawaii IEP --

12 A. Yes --

13 Q. -- with regard to the Grants Pass pass

14 IEP?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And again, stepping back a moment, just a

17 general matter, is it your understanding that under

18 the IEP, for example, when convening an annual IEP

19 or a regular IEP meeting, that there are something

20 called the "Present Levels of Educational

21 Performance"; correct?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And is it not true that the needs of the

24 student, including the goals and objectives, are

25 determined based upon current information regarding

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1 the student, not necessarily historical data in the

2 past regarding student performance?

3 A. That is correct, it would be present

4 performance.

5 Q. Okay. And so this really leads to my next

6 question. I think this is really the fundamental

7 question in this case. I know the judge is

8 interested in this. [Parent] is as well.

9 Why did the team decide not to make an ESY

10 determination? Why did the team feel it was

11 necessary to wait until April 10th, 2014, to make

12 that determination?

13 A. It was necessary to gain the data and

14 information to support such a decision.

15 Q. Okay. And let's start out with some

16 comments that [Parent] had for you about winter

17 break. And I think you touched on this briefly, but

18 he raised the fact that, well, you testified that

19 you had collected winter break -- pre- and post20 winter break information; so that would have been

21 the Christmas, the holiday, Christmas holiday.

22 Can you tell us roughly, or can you tell

23 us -- actually I have a calendar here. (To [Parent])

24 I'm going to show the witness what has been labeled

25 as "Grants Pass School District No. 7 Calendar,"

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1 school calendar for the 2013/2014 school year. And

2 I'll show that to you as well.

3 [PARENT]: Is this an Exhibit?

4 MR. COHN-LEE: No. I'm just going to use

5 it to refresh his recollection.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: As a matter of formality, he

7 can't hand something to the witness without showing

8 it to you first.

9 [PARENT]: Okay.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: So he's showing it to the

11 witness for reference.

12 MR. COHN-LEE: And I will put in the

13 record it's just to simply jog Mr. Kolb's memory so

14 we have specific dates set forth in the record

15 without him guessing.

16 [PARENT]: Fair enough.

17 MR. COHN-LEE: Judge, would you like to

18 look at this?

19 JUDGE HOUSE: No.

20 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

21 Q. Okay. Mr. Kolb, I'm going to hand you --

22 we're not marking this as an Exhibit, but it looks

23 like a 2013/2014 calendar.

24 Now, if you could, frame for the judge a

25 little bit some of our timelines in this case.

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1 A. Sure.

2 Q. So you had an IEP meeting on November

3 20th, 2013; correct?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. And then what was the first day of winter

6 break?

7 A. First day of winter break would have

8 started on Saturday, the 21st of December.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. If you want to go technical school days

11 off, it would be Monday, December 23rd.

12 Q. Okay. And how many days were there before

13 winter break from the day when the team newly minted

14 the November 20th IEP?

15 A. According to this, it was 19 and a half

16 days of school scheduled.

17 Q. When you say "scheduled," what happened

18 during that period?

19 A. There were three days of which it froze

20 over. And it was pretty significant. Snow days

21 cancelled school District-wide.

22 Q. And on what days did those snow days

23 occur?

24 A. It occurred on Friday, December 6th, and

25 Monday, December 9th, and Tuesday, December 10th.

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1 Q. So actually there were four consecutive

2 calendar days of a break during that period?

3 A. Correct. Also in there was a break of

4 four and a half calendar days for -- excuse me --

5 for Thanksgiving break.

6 Q. Oh. Okay. Oh. Thank you. Yeah.

7 And when did the Thanksgiving break occur,

8 what days?

9 A. About four days -- there were four school

10 days after the first day of implementation of the

11 new IEP.

12 Q. Okay. And so total how many actual

13 instructional days were there during that period

14 from November 20th to the start of winter break?

15 A. Sixteen and a half.

16 Q. And how did this length of time play into

17 the team's decision about the -- I guess the

18 fidelity or the confidence it had in the pre-break

19 data it was collecting?

20 A. The IEP changes were substantial. His a

21 pretty significantly impacted student. A lot of

22 strategies were changed.

23 So essentially we've got a lot of very new

24 things for [Student], new strategies, new tools.

25 That's a big adjustment for [Student].

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1 So regarding the IEP being implemented,

2 had its challenges. Breaks in services compounded

3 that. And then -- but we did have data prior to

4 this break.

5 It was data based on very new

6 implementation, very unique, amazing kid with some

7 unique challenges. And so that adjustment period

8 for [Student] was particularly tough.

9 And so -- but we had data prior to and

10 then data following. I believe that's probably

11 something that would be called into question or

12 maybe brought up here and what that essentially

13 looked like at that time.

14 To my knowledge, this is the -- when we

15 did look at that data, it actually substantiated

16 that [Student] was able to recoup after the 16-day

17 break.

18 Q. So able to recoup; so that would actually

19 in fact support a determination that [Student] did

20 not qualify?

21 A. [Student] would not have qualified based

22 on my input or opinion of the data that I'm aware

23 of.

24 Q. So in fact by waiting -- and the next

25 following break where the District could collect

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1 that kind of recoupment and regression was what?

2 A. Spring break.

3 Q. On the calendar, when did spring break

4 occur?

5 A. Spring break occurred -- the first day off

6 was technically March 21st. It was a

7 clerical/conference day. So March 21st was the first

8 day of seven, eight -- nine consecutive days, 10

9 consecutive days with no school.

10 Q. So essentially what was the District

11 trying to do by -- it already had data. The data

12 perhaps suggested a determination of no services.

13 So what was the District trying to do by

14 waiting to gather additional data?

15 A. Well, one, provide some additional. So

16 concerned a little bit of implementing a new IEP and

17 seeing -- we wanted more data to verify that our

18 winter data was accurate and/or disprove that data

19 that said no, now that we have -- things are in flow

20 and -- for the Student -- routines, practices,

21 strategies, that let's now take another look at

22 [Student's] ability to recoup skills and target

23 areas.

24 Q. Would it be fair to say that the District

25 was holding out for additional data to see if

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1 [Student] could qualify for ESY services?

2 A. I would say that's a fair statement.

3 Q. And you touched on this briefly, but the

4 pre-winter break data, I think we've heard maybe

5 that referred to in the documents as the "baseline

6 data"?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. Again, you indicated you had some concerns

9 and the team had some concerns about the fidelity or

10 the confidence in that baseline data, and you

11 identified a couple of factors such as the length of

12 time you had to implement that new IEP and the fact

13 that under this IEP you were actually changing some

14 instructional strategies that [Student] was not used

15 to.

16 Just again based on your general

17 knowledge, your knowledge of the documents, and

18 having worked with [Student] before, albeit briefly,

19 did [Student] struggle and have challenges with re20 establishing new routines or breaking from already

21 established routines?

22 A. Yes. [Student] struggles greatly with

23 change in routines, change in staff, change in even

24 the presentation of materials set in front of

25 [Student].

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1 If he's used to a certain way of that

2 being done, he's really going to struggle with

3 understanding or processing what the expectations

4 are for [Student]. So oftentimes that could result

5 in just resistant behavior.

6 THE REPORTER: Is now a good time for a

7 break?

8 JUDGE HOUSE: I was thinking that also.

9 MR. COHN-LEE: Sure.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: It's 2:45. Can we go ahead

11 and take a 15-minute break?

12 MR. COHN-LEE: Of course.

13 (A recess was taken from 2:45 p.m. to 3:04

14 p.m.)

15 JUDGE HOUSE: We just had a rescheduling

16 issue.

17 There's an imminent need for the Parent to

18 leave to take care of an issue with the Student and

19 for health reasons. And at 4:30 we're going to stop

20 for the day. We will reconvene at 8:30 tomorrow

21 morning.

22 All right. Now we're going to continue

23 with direct examination from Mr. Kolb.

24 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

25 Q. And, Mr. Kolb, where we last left off was

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1 talking a little bit about the data fidelity for the

2 winter break and how the team had made a decision to

3 get additional data, kind of err on the side of

4 caution, gather additional data after spring break.

5 But even before then, take a look at

6 Exhibit D-5.

7 And what is D-5?

8 A. D-5 are the meeting notes from the March

9 18th, 2014, meeting.

10 Q. And in fact there was an IEP meeting

11 convened on March 18th; correct?

12 A. That is correct.

13 Q. And you discussed that meeting a bit with

14 [Parent] during your dialogue with [Parent]?

15 A. Correct.

16 MR. COHN-LEE: I'd offer Exhibit D-5.

17 JUDGE HOUSE: Any objections, [Parent]?

18 [PARENT]: No objections.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. D-5 is admitted.

20 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-5 was

21 offered and admitted into evidence.)

22 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

23 Q. And again, why was the March 18th, 2014,

24 meeting convened?

25 A. That meeting was convened to review the

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1 independent education evaluation for functional

2 behavior assessment to inform the development of

3 behavior for the future planning for [Student].

4 Additionally, the Parent wanted to discuss

5 I believe it was transitioning to the high school,

6 and additionally the Parent had requested that ESY

7 consideration be on the agenda.

8 Q. Okay. And did the District honor the

9 request for the Parent to include ESY on the meeting

10 agenda?

11 A. Yes, we did.

12 Q. Okay. And in fact did you discuss ESY at

13 the March meeting?

14 A. Yes, we did.

15 Q. What was the substance of the discussion?

16 A. The substance of the discussion was the

17 Parent wanted ESY determination to be made at that

18 meeting.

19 At which time the District still

20 disagreed, stating the need for additional

21 regression/recoupment data, which would be afforded

22 by the upcoming spring break.

23 Q. Okay. And during that colloquy, did the

24 Parent have an opportunity to provide input?

25 A. Yes.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Since we've discussed this

2 twice, I'm going to ask a question.

3 What was the Parent saying about the

4 Student's specific need for a break no longer than

5 10 consecutive school days?

6 THE WITNESS: At this meeting?

7 JUDGE HOUSE: In general.

8 THE WITNESS: In general, the Parent

9 claims that -- and as documented in the Hawaii IEP,

10 Student needs ESY services for breaks longer than 10

11 days.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Why?

13 THE WITNESS: That was never afforded to

14 to us.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: In no way was it referenced

16 at all --

17 THE WITNESS: In general --

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Sorry. I should have just

19 asked this a little bit better.

20 Did the Parent say it was regarding a

21 specific issue, more than one issue, or no issue?

22 Just I want ESY. So I just asked it in three forms,

23 but if you can, answer.

24 THE WITNESS: I believe I can attempt to.

25 Much of that, the premise for the Parent's

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1 request for ESY is the ability to pair with adults,

2 relationships which would -- may reduce the number

3 of protests, whether they're physical or verbal,

4 whether they're eloping, flopping, pinching or

5 verbal protests -- for transitioning to nonpreferred

6 or engaging in nonpreferred activities.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

8 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge, were you done

9 with your inquiry?

10 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes, thank you.

11 MR. COHN-LEE: Of course. I just wanted

12 to ask a follow-up on that precise issue.

13 Q. And you had indicated however that

14 regarding the documentation you received in the

15 Student's records that you received from either the

16 Parent or Hawaii, Kailua School District, it did not

17 contain data to actually explain or support that

18 conclusion?

19 A. Correct. We have never received any data

20 as to why ESY was determined to be appropriate for

21 [Student].

22 Q. Okay. And I'm going to jump forward now.

23 You had an IEP meeting on April 10th;

24 correct?

25 A. Correct.

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1 Q. And again, using the calendar we've shown

2 you before, approximately how many instructional

3 days did that meeting occur after the end of the

4 spring break?

5 A. That occurred five, six, seven, eight --

6 that was the ninth instructional day following the

7 spring break.

8 Q. Okay. And if you could take a look back

9 at Exhibit D-1.

10 A. (Witness complies.)

11 Q. And on page 1 of D-1, if you look under

12 the middle section entitled "Criteria For ESY

13 Services," the guidelines set forth, periods for

14 looking at recoupment for various breaks.

15 So for example under "2-A," it talks about

16 more than eight weeks, looking at eight-week

17 recoupment period after a summer break, more than

18 two to three weeks after a winter break, or more

19 than one to two weeks after spring break.

20 A. (No audible response.)

21 Q. Your meeting to consider ESY on April

22 10th, did that fall within the District guidelines

23 for that recoupment period?

24 A. It fell right in the middle of the one to

25 two weeks after spring break for instructional

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1 recoupment.

2 Q. Okay. And long story short -- and I know

3 we're walking a line here between the substantive

4 decision and the timing issue, but following up on

5 Judge House's inquiry -- after reviewing the

6 information at the April 10th IEP meeting regarding

7 recoupment and regression -- let me ask you, was

8 data for both winter break and spring break reviewed

9 at that April 10th meeting?

10 A. Yes, it was.

11 Q. As a result of that meeting, was there any

12 evidence in your view that [Student] actually

13 suffered undue recoupment or regression if [Student]

14 did not receive services for a period of 10 -- well,

15 actually more than 10 calendar days?

16 A. No.

17 Q. And just to make sure again we're framing

18 our time periods for the judge so she has accurate

19 information, how many school days did [Student] not

20 receive services over winter break?

21 A. Sixteen consecutive days.

22 Q. So those were 16 calendar days?

23 A. Sixteen calendar days.

24 Q. What about over spring break?

25 A. Ten calendar days.

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1 Q. Okay. Now, again, during that April 10th

2 meeting, did the Parent raise any position or

3 arguments at the April 10th meeting in support of

4 why [Student] would unduly regress or be unable to

5 recoup if [Student] went, you know, 10 or more --

6 more than 10 calendar days without services?

7 A. The Parent raised an issue of concern of

8 significant behavioral implications that [Student]

9 would not be able to recoup from.

10 Q. And the did the Parent reference any data

11 that you collected?

12 A. The Parent had paperwork in front of

13 [Parent] and reference data and held up a chart in

14 that meeting that was not afforded to the rest of

15 the team.

16 Q. When you say wasn't afforded, did the

17 District actually ask to see a copy of that

18 information?

19 A. Yes, we asked for a copy of that

20 information.

21 Q. And was that provided to the District by

22 the Parent?

23 A. No.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm sorry, [Parent] held up

25 -- how did you describe it?

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1 THE WITNESS: Um, charts.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

3 THE WITNESS: From what I recall, a graph

4 of sort.

5 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

6 Q. And again, did the District affirmatively

7 ask for that information?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And was it provided by the Parent?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Mr. Kolb, I want to shift gears, and I

12 apologize in advance because we're going to be

13 jumping around now a little bit. But I wanted to

14 touch on a couple of topics that [Parent] brought up

15 in [Parent's] examination of you.

16 If you could, take a look at -- have you

17 go back and -- (To Parent) [Parent], I'm sorry. I'm

18 going to have to have you look at -- it's okay.

19 I think I might be able to use the

20 District version of some of the documents you used

21 for my questions. So unless I absolutely have to get

22 something from you, I'll try to use my documents.

23 (To the witness) Before we do that, Mr. Kolb, I

24 wanted you to authenticate some documents for me.

25 A. Okay.

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1 Q. Take a look at Exhibit D-6.

2 A. (Witness complies.)

3 Q. And what is D-6?

4 A. Prior notice of special education action

5 as related to the March 18th, 2014, meeting.

6 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. I'd offer Exhibit D7 6.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Any objections?

9 [PARENT]: No objection.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: It's admitted.

11 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-6 was

12 offered and admitted into evidence.)

13 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

14 Q. Take a look at Exhibit D-7.

15 A. (Witness complies.)

16 Q. And what's D-7?

17 A. Notice of the team meeting for the meeting

18 scheduled for April the 10th, 2014.

19 MR. COHN-LEE: I'd offer D-7.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: Objection?

21 [PARENT]: No objection.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: Admitted.

23 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-7 was

24 offered and admitted into evidence.)

25 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

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1 Q. And what is Exhibit D-8?

2 A. D-8 is the agenda that was presented for

3 the April 10th, 2014, meeting.

4 Q. And there's a second page to D-8 with some

5 handwritten notations.

6 Do you recall who made those handwritten

7 notations?

8 A. Dorothy Jewell.

9 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. I'd offer Exhibit D10 8.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: And if I could ask that date

12 again?

13 THE WITNESS: April 10th, 2014.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent], any objection?

15 [PARENT]: Yes. What does this have to do

16 with the questions posed as to -- I don't understand

17 how the stuff that happens on April 10th apply to

18 the questions at hand from November 20th and March

19 18th.

20 MR. COHN-LEE: If I may?

21 JUDGE HOUSE: Go ahead.

22 MR. COHN-LEE: Judge, they clearly relate.

23 One of the primary, probably the primary

24 issue -- now that we've had evidence that there was

25 essentially agreement that ESY determination did not

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1 need to be made in November, the key question is

2 whether or not the District was reasonable in

3 waiting until April 10th to convene a meeting to

4 make an ESY determination.

5 And that is one of the central -- that's

6 probably the central issue in this case.

7 And documents reflecting that we did

8 conduct a meeting that was within our guidelines for

9 recoupment and regression data, and as we'll hear

10 from other witnesses discussing data that showed why

11 it was necessary and reasonable to wait given the

12 data that was collected over spring break, that is

13 the central theme and issue in this case.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to sustain the

15 objection.

16 The IEP, to use the legal -- the phrase

17 used in case law as a "snapshot."

18 And we're looking at the sufficiency of

19 the ESY consideration of November 10th and March

20 18th, decisions made at that time, whether if there

21 is a procedural defect, then it resulted in a

22 substance to the defect that in some way impacted

23 FAPE.

24 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge, may I be heard

25 on that?

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

2 MR. COHN-LEE: Because we're talking about

3 the November IEP, I would refer the judge to -- this

4 is an exhibit that's already been admitted into

5 evidence. It's Exhibit D-3, page 21 of 28.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

7 MR. COHN-LEE: If you look at page 21 of

8 28 on D-3. And it is true that at that time the

9 District did develop an IEP with goals and

10 objectives that was based on present levels at that

11 time.

12 But as the team -- obviously with -- I

13 would even take the position that with the Parent

14 agreement, as of that day, they did not need to

15 determine ESY.

16 And the team with the Parent objection

17 indicated on the bottom that it would be appropriate

18 to wait and to have ESY to be considered by no later

19 than April 16th.

20 So by definition, the IEP document itself

21 is creating a window of time.

22 And that window of time obviously is in

23 question, and that's in dispute in this case,

24 whether or not it was reasonable for the District to

25 wait until April 10th to make an ESY determination.

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1 But I would submit that the IEP document

2 itself, the team at that particular moment in time,

3 at that snapshot on November 20th, made that

4 determination that it would need to wait to make an

5 ESY determination until that time.

6 So it is directly relevant.

7 [PARENT]: I would disagree. Mr. Cohn8 Lee, I think he's extending some things pretty far

9 when he says that the team made an agreement because

10 we've heard testimony that it wasn't a team

11 agreement, that it was a consensus of one.

12 Additionally, again, I fall back on the

13 fact that we're talking about procedural flaws in

14 November and procedural flaws in March. We're not

15 talking about whether or not they held a meeting and

16 what was the outcome of that meeting in April.

17 MR. COHN-LEE: And I'm not taking the

18 position that the outcome is at issue. The outcome

19 is at issue in our second due process.

20 But again, the only issue for hearing

21 today is whether or not the IEP team, the District,

22 unreasonably delayed an ESY determination.

23 And it is going to be directly relevant to

24 have information in the record showing that there

25 was data gathered that demonstrated that the winter

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1 break data was in fact suspect, that the data that

2 was collected later did not actually reinforce that

3 data.

4 So the decision to wait until after spring

5 break instead of making a decision right after

6 winter break, it was in fact reasonable and

7 necessary given the quality of the data that the

8 District collected.

9 So it is directly germane, not to the

10 substantive outcome, but to the timing.

11 And in terms of [Parent's] comment about a

12 comment of only Mr. Kolb -- first of all, he did not

13 say that, and we are going to have testimony from

14 other witnesses who are actually going to

15 corroborate that in fact that was a team discussion,

16 that was a team decision.

17 So at a minimum I think we should at least

18 wait until those witnesses can discuss these

19 documents and address some of information in these

20 documents.

21 [PARENT]: Unreasonable delay is not at

22 issue here. What's at issue is procedural failures.

23 Now, whether they unreasonably delayed -- you kind

24 of threw that out in the beginning of the motions.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: Mr. Cohn-Lee, what happened

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1 at the meeting of April 10th is not relevant to

2 whether or not at the time the decision was made to

3 postpone a determination on ESY in some way if that

4 was a procedural defect, if, did it result in some

5 substantive impact on the ability of the Student to

6 access education.

7 And the Parent -- I understand that the

8 Parent is arguing that ESY determination needed to

9 be made in a time, and I'm not going to say what

10 else. But there's a timing issue, and there's a

11 reason that the timing had to be sooner than it was.

12 So what happened on April 16th, I have not

13 heard that the Parent agreed on that timing. And if

14 he did, we wouldn't be here.

15 So what happened as far as this IEP, the

16 IEP that eventually resulted -- I'm sorry. Now I'm

17 going to get the dates wrong -- the April IEP.

18 What happened at that IEP meeting isn't

19 going to affect whether the Parent meets the burden

20 of proof on those first two issues. The Parent's

21 due process request referenced a November 20th IEP

22 as amended in March 18th.

23 And so the burden is to show that those,

24 and specifically ESY consideration or not, at that

25 time substantively impacted the Student in some way

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1 or created a substantively deficient IEP.

2 Parent hasn't had the opportunity to argue

3 that. I'm not going to pre-argue it. I don't know

4 exactly what he's going to say. But it's not based

5 on what happened at this meeting.

6 So no, I'm going to exclude the documents

7 that refer to the April IEP meeting.

8 MR. COHN-LEE: And just so I'm clear on

9 the record, so we are excluding Exhibit D-8 forward?

10 [PARENT]: If they're all referencing what

11 happened -- all right. Rather than make a broad

12 exclusion, I'm going to reserve ruling.

13 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay.

14 JUDGE HOUSE: Because that's the tendency

15 in this type of hearing is to let me look at it.

16 But that is what I'm going to be looking at, is

17 whether or not the first two IEPs fit what's at

18 issue and how did that affect the Student.

19 However or whatever happened at that next

20 meeting, as you said, is not in issue or has been

21 appealed.

22 MR. COHN-LEE: But I'm assuming that the

23 District can still argue that it decided not to make

24 -- if we're thinking about it as a timeline, it

25 decided not to make a decision on November 20th --

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Right --

2 MR. COHN-LEE: -- or March because at that

3 point in time it had not yet reached a point where

4 it had gotten sufficient data -- I'm assuming that's

5 still --

6 JUDGE HOUSE: That's great.

7 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. And the other point

8 I'm making is actually when you look at some of

9 these documents, including D-10, it actually does

10 include data from the winter break period.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: That --

12 MR. COHN-LEE: So it's commingled. So I

13 think we're probably going to have to look at the

14 exhibits, you know, piece by piece.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: To the extent that they will

16 be interpreted or related to that issue, I

17 understand that, yes.

18 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: That it shows data that

20 you're relying upon to support the position that you

21 took at that time, District took at that time, and

22 I'll look at it that way.

23 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: May be the only place I see

25 that data. But it's just the determination and

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1 outcome of the April meeting is not at issue.

2 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. So we're holding off

3 on those. And we can address those with the

4 individual witnesses when we get to those.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. I think Exhibit D-8

6 is just an agenda, and it doesn't -- it shows

7 prevent regression and recoupment data; so it means

8 that they had it.

9 MR. COHN-LEE: Yeah.

10 JUDGE HOUSE: Just for what it's worth,

11 I'll allow it.

12 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: It's admitted. I understand

14 Parent's objection, and I'll take that into account.

15 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-8 was

16 offered and admitted into evidence.)

17 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay.

18 Q. And Mr. Kolb, what is Exhibit D-9?

19 A. Exhibit D-9 would be the amended IEP as a

20 result of the meeting on April 10th, 2014. And the

21 substance of change on the IEP is that a decision

22 was made regarding eligibility for the ESY services.

23 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. And just to the

24 extent that the document is being introduced to show

25 that a decision was made on that date, for

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1 completeness of the record, we'd introduce D-9 for

2 that limited purpose, not necessarily to get into --

3 JUDGE HOUSE: What the decision was?

4 MR. COHN-LEE: Correct, but simply that a

5 meeting was convened on that date and a decision --

6 ESY was addressed on that date.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Well, let me ask, you said

8 that there's data in here that was preexisting this

9 date that the District was already looking at?

10 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm not sure if there's

11 actually the raw data. The raw data, the data the

12 team considered, is actually D-10.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

14 MR. COHN-LEE: I just want to introduce D15 9 as a just placeholder to show in fact that's when

16 the meeting was convened and a decision was made

17 without getting into the substance.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. It's admitted for

19 that limited purpose.

20 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-9 was

21 offered and admitted into evidence.)

22 MR. COHN-LEE: And again, D-10 is the

23 underlying data, but it does include the data from

24 not only spring break, but the winter break.

25 So we can certainly focus in on the winter

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1 break data. And I'd appreciate your guidance when

2 we get to that point.

3 I'd offer D-10 at this time.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. And [Parent], when

5 I've addressed the objection I think you would have

6 to D-10 also, do you understand what I'm looking at

7 it for, or what the District's offering it for and

8 why I think right now unless you tell me otherwise I

9 think it is relevant?

10 [PARENT]: Yes, I understand.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. And just for

12 purposes of the record, do you still object to it?

13 You can.

14 [PARENT]: No.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. So D-10 is

16 admitted.

17 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-10 was

18 offered and admitted into evidence.)

19 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

20 Q. And Mr. Kolb, what is D-11?

21 A. D-11 is --

22 [PARENT]: I'm sorry. I had another

23 question.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes.

25 [PARENT]: So I may change my objection if

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1 Mr. Kolb is the one that's verifying its

2 authenticity.

3 Or is it just being admitted, or is Mr.

4 Kolb verifying its authenticity?

5 JUDGE HOUSE: I think if he's saying

6 that's what it is, it's the IEP from that date.

7 [PARENT]: No. On D-11 -- or D-10. D-10

8 is data. D-10 is all raw data?

9 MR. COHN-LEE: Correct. But I think I can

10 lay a foundation and that this witness can

11 authenticate that as a special education director.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

13 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

14 Q. Mr. Kolb, are you familiar with the

15 education records in this file, and in fact was this

16 document generated and made part of the Student's

17 file?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And are you familiar with this document?

20 A. Yes.

21 MR. COHN-LEE: I would offer the Exhibit.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: Do you maintain your

23 objection?

24 [PARENT]: I would state that he had

25 nothing to do with the creation of the data nor

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1 would he have validated to determine whether the

2 data was correct prior to the --

3 JUDGE HOUSE: That's not the purpose. Let

4 me just explain that.

5 When a foundation is laid for admission as

6 a business record, someone can say basically "This

7 is a record that we keep in the normal course of

8 business. I look at these records as part of my

9 job. I look at this. This is what it appears to

10 be."

11 [PARENT]: Okay. I withdraw my objection.

12 JUDGE HOUSE: It's not as to whether or

13 not you agree with the data.

14 [PARENT]: Okay. I withdraw my objection.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. So it's admitted.

16 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-11 was

17 offered and admitted into evidence.)

18 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

19 Q. What is D-11, Mr. Kolb?

20 A. D-11 are the meeting minute or notes from

21 the April 10th, 2014, meeting.

22 MR. COHN-LEE: Okay. And again, strictly

23 for the limited purpose of reflecting that the

24 meeting occurred but also that the prior data was in

25 fact reviewed and considered, including the winter

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1 break data, I would simply offer this to reflect

2 that.

3 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent], with that

4 limitation, do you have an objection to D-11?

5 [PARENT]: Not with that limitation, no.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. It's admitted

7 for that purpose.

8 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

9 Q. And, Mr. Kolb, what is D-12?

10 A. D-12 is a prior notice of special

11 education action form to follow up the meeting from

12 April 10th, 2014.

13 MR. COHN-LEE: And again, just to simply

14 reflect that the meeting occurred and that a

15 decision was made, we would offer at this time.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent]?

17 [PARENT]: No objection to that exhibit.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. It's admitted.

19 (Whereupon, District's Exhibit D-12 was

20 offered and admitted into evidence.)

21 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

22 Q. Mr. Kolb, I want to shift gears now. Like

23 I said, I'm going to apologize in advance because

24 we're going to hop around a little bit. So I'm

25 going to have you bounce around a little bit.

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1 You were shown Parent's Exhibit S-4 on

2 page 1. And I think that's the same thing as Exhibit

3 D-1. And so if you turn to Exhibit D-1, if you

4 could, take a look at page 4 of 5 of D-1.

5 And you were asked some questions about

6 whether and how the ODE cut-and-paste guidance you

7 inserted on here made reference to the IEP goals and

8 objectives and tracking goals and objectives for

9 purposes of ESY.

10 And you had mentioned a couple of provisions in

11 here: Subsection 4 and I believe Subsection 7 as

12 well, sub (B).

13 Take a look at subsection 6?

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. What does the "Recoupment and Regression

16 Standards" refer to?

17 A. "Regression" is the loss of skills or

18 behaviors in an area specified on the IEP. And

19 "recoupment" is recovery of skills or behavior

20 specified on the IEP.

21 Q. And [Parent] had you walk through a bunch

22 of regulations and the CFRs, is the Code of Federal

23 Regulations, on Exhibit S-2, page 1 of 1.

24 And he referred you to 300.106, Sub (2) --

25 actually (A), Sub (2), "Extended school year

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1 services must be provided only if a child's IEP

2 determines on an individual basis in accordance with

3 Subsections 300.320 through 300.324 that the

4 services are necessary for the provision of FAPE to

5 the child." Okay.

6 Then [Parent] had you look at another set

7 of CFRs, Code of Federal Regulations and,

8 specifically, 300.320.

9 And this subsection, which is incorporated

10 in the other section we looked at, talks about the

11 components of the IEP.

12 And under the "Components," it lists various

13 things: "alternative assessments" -- what are

14 "alternative assessments"?

15 A. "Alternative assessments" would be

16 alternative to the standardized assessments utilized

17 to assess the progress of all students adopted by

18 the State of Oregon.

19 For State of Oregon, it's OAKS -- Oregon

20 Assessment of Knowledge and Skills -- to determine

21 progress as compared to other students at that grade

22 level.

23 Q. Okay.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Just from prior knowledge, I

25 know that "OAKS" is an acronym. Can you tell me

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1 what it stands for?

2 THE WITNESS: "Oregon Assessment of

3 Knowledge and Skills."

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Thank you.

5 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

6 Q. And as part of this list of components of

7 the IEP, it does list the IEP would include "a

8 statement of measurable annual goals" -- this is in

9 the Subsection (2)(i), lower case "i" -- "a

10 statement of measurable annual goals, including

11 academic and functional goals, designed to" --

12 Subsection A -- "meet the child's needs that result

13 from the child's disability to enable the child to

14 be involved in and make progress in the general ed

15 curriculum and meet each of the child's other

16 educational needs that result from the child's

17 disability."

18 Having heard that, in your view, really

19 what are the function of the goals and objectives in

20 the IEP?

21 A. The function of the goals and objectives

22 in the IEP are the comprehensive effort to identify

23 students' needs as related to the identified goal

24 areas as -- in order for the student to receive

25 FAPE.

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1 Q. In your opinion, more than any other

2 section of an IEP -- present level state

3 assessments, nonparticipation justification, that

4 sort of thing -- do the goals and objectives really

5 define the educational needs of the student?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Okay. Do those goals and objectives

8 instruct the team about what skill areas that are

9 necessary in order for an IEP to deliver a FAPE?

10 A. Yes.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: I wanted to make sure I

12 heard the question two questions back.

13 Do you think the goals and objectives

14 define did you say the "educational needs of the

15 student"?

16 MR. COHN-LEE: Correct.

17 Q. And as a related question from what Judge

18 House said, those are needs that a school district

19 would be obligated to provide the student as part of

20 FAPE?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. Bear with me, Mr. Kolb. I'm jumping

23 through my notes now; so we're going to hop around

24 subject-wise.

25 A. Okay.

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1 Q. Okay. And again, you were shown Exhibit

2 S-4 at 1, and I'm going to refer you back to the

3 District's Exhibit D-1 at 4. So Exhibit D-1, page

4 4.

5 A. Okay.

6 Q. And in particular you were shown in the

7 middle of that page, Subsection 5, "School districts

8 must develop criteria for determining the need for

9 extended school year services. Criteria must

10 include regression and recoupment time based on

11 documented evidence or, if no documented evidence,

12 on predictions according to the professional

13 judgment of the team."

14 How do you interpret that provision?

15 A. I interpret that as we need data, and if

16 we can't get data, then we would move to predictions

17 according to the professional judgment of the team.

18 Q. In your opinion, however, as in this case,

19 if a team can reasonably defer making a decision in

20 order to gain that data, would it be obligated to

21 obtain that recoupment and regression data?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Paint us a picture. What types of

24 scenarios would there be in your view when a team

25 could not obtain that kind of data?

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1 A. It would be very rare. It would be

2 potentially a student who was initially identified

3 at the very end of the school year where there

4 wasn't a break in service where we could have gotten

5 pre- and post-data for a period of time off.

6 Q. So for example if a student was just made

7 eligible for special education services and had an

8 IEP developed after the spring break in May for

9 example --

10 A. Correct --

11 Q. -- would that be one scenario where that

12 would apply --

13 A. That would be one scenario where that

14 would apply.

15 Q. But to be clear, if in your view the team

16 could engage in a process to obtain that data, in

17 your view would it be prudent and required for the

18 team to obtain data?

19 A. Yes, ensuring it's timely in order to

20 provide services appropriately.

21 Q. Let's go back to the original November

22 IEP. We were talking about this earlier in my

23 discussion with Judge House. Take a look at D-3.

24 Take a look at page 21 of D-3.

25 And now, before we even begin, the IEP

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1 forms that the Grants Pass School District uses, are

2 they in fact patterned after the model forms

3 developed by the Department of Education?

4 A. Yeah. We're required to use forms that

5 have been approved by the Oregon Department of

6 Education.

7 Q. And you were asked some questions by

8 [Parent] about whether or not it was possible for a

9 team to make a decision regarding ESY at the time an

10 IEP was developed.

11 On the bottom of this page, on page 21, in

12 fact how many options are there regarding extended

13 school year?

14 A. There are three options: either yes, ESY

15 services will be provided; no, they will not; or "to

16 be considered" with a blank spot in which we would

17 be obligated to insert the date.

18 Q. And so on this form that tracks the ODE

19 model forms and rules, the IEP in fact does provide

20 and recognize that in fact there is another

21 alternative option for a team to consider, which is

22 to wait and defer beyond the date when an IEP is

23 drafted when it will consider ESY services?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. And it's your understanding that that is

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1 consistent with Oregon regulations and federal law?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. I may have already touched on this, and if

4 so, people can chime in and let me know.

5 But I think there was a coloquy with

6 [Parent] or Judge House about District maybe having

7 some selected documents from [Student's] prior

8 school district, the Kailua School District.

9 I think you mentioned that we had the

10 prior IEP. I just wanted to be clear though.

11 What was the quality of the information in

12 the documents you had regarding actual ESY data?

13 A. It was only a statement that the Student

14 would receive ESY, a description of what that

15 Student would receive, but no foundational

16 statements or data to support the decision for the

17 ESY.

18 JUDGE HOUSE: Mr. Cohn-Lee, I've got a

19 question that's in mind because you asked what

20 you're understanding Mr. Kolb has said of the

21 requirements.

22 From the Parent's requests for ESY, was

23 there an indication that the request for ESY was

24 based on something that may have been a related

25 service, related to behavior, related to something

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1 other than the specific educational goal or goals or

2 objectives, but more towards ESY designed to

3 maintain the Student's ability to access education,

4 in other words, impacting behavior?

5 MR. COHN-LEE: And, Judge, I just want to

6 be clear, I actually -- I don't know if you were

7 looking at another document.

8 I actually asked Mr. Kolb a follow-up

9 question as to whether or not it would be any goal

10 areas that would be considered necessary to provide

11 FAPE.

12 So that would be -- I did not say the term

13 "academic." I meant any goal area. That could

14 include behaviors that were necessary for the child

15 to access their education.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: And I think what I'm asking

17 directly is: Was that a concern expressed by the

18 Parent?

19 THE WITNESS: Yes.

20 JUDGE HOUSE: Was there anything in the

21 IEP from the previous year that said, if not the

22 data, what was to be provided to address the

23 Student's ability to access education?

24 In other words, if not just the goal of

25 some rote task nine or 10 times, but the area of

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1 behavior, the area of the Student's ability to

2 interact with another person -- was that addressed

3 in the IEP services?

4 THE WITNESS: Yes, as well as in the

5 Present Levels of Performance.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: Was there data in there that

7 could have been discussed in November to address

8 Parent's concern about the timing of the ESY

9 decision?

10 THE WITNESS: There was data in there that

11 was relevant to discussion of [Student's] overall

12 educational program and planning, whether it's

13 behavioral, social, emotional, academic.

14 So we don't by any means discard the

15 content of the PLEP from Hawaii.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: And what did the team, if

17 you will, do with that discussion in November?

18 Where was it discussed that the Student had been

19 determined to have ESY because at some point

20 something was needed for that student to access

21 education? Was that discussion held in November?

22 THE WITNESS: That part of the ESY

23 discussion was not held.

24 What was held was making a determination

25 in the new IEP based on what [Student's] new team --

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1 [Student's] new team's knowledge, [Student's] new

2 team's experiences, [Student's] goals and objectives

3 and identified needs based on -- based on our

4 District moving forward and our experts in the areas

5 of behavior and autism communication.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: And did those individuals

7 discuss the behavioral needs of the student to be

8 part of the ESY decision and discussion at a later

9 time?

10 In other words, were they saying, "We are

11 considering those things. We're going to determine

12 that later"?

13 THE WITNESS: The Student's goals and

14 objectives were built around all of those pieces --

15 behavior and communication and academic.

16 And development of those goals and

17 monitoring the progress of those goals would inform

18 that determination at a later point in time.

19 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. Thank you for bearing

20 with me.

21 MR. COHN-LEE: And actually I think that's

22 a really good question. I wanted to follow up.

23 Q. Just to be clear, as of November 20th,

24 2013, the IEP team had served [Student] for a couple

25 of months?

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1 A. Correct.

2 Q. They had data directly from their time

3 serving [Student] directly; and so Grants Pass

4 School District staff had their own data to draft a

5 new IEP?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. And that was drafted. And in fact those

8 goals were substantially different from the goals in

9 the Hawaii IEP?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. So just to be clear, to use the data from

12 the Hawaii IEP, was that apples to oranges, or would

13 that have been something that would correlate at

14 all?

15 A. They would not correlate based on how the

16 goals were written and the target skills, many of

17 the goals.

18 Q. Mr. Kolb, I think that's all I have for

19 you.

20 A. Okay.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: And, [Parent], do you have

22 any further questions at this time for Mr. Kolb?

23 [PARENT]: Yes, I do. Give me just a

24 second, please.

25 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

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1 BY [PARENT]:

2 Q. You stated that the goals and objectives

3 define educational needs.

4 Do you stand by that statement?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Do you feel that the PLEP drives the goals

7 and objectives?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. So would it then be the PLEP that drives -

10 - defines the educational needs and not the goals

11 and objectives?

12 A. I believe they go together hand in hand.

13 Q. You stated earlier -- and correct me if

14 I'm misquoting you because I'm not as fast as the

15 stenographer -- "[Student] struggles with routine

16 and changes."

17 Does that sound familiar?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Would this not apply to the need for ESY?

20 A. It directly applies to the need for ESY.

21 Q. You -- not you, but it was discussed that

22 there was only 16.5 days when the new IEP was

23 developed until the winter break began.

24 And a lot of emphasis was put on the fact

25 that the new IEP was black-and-white different from

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1 the old Hawaii IEP. The goals and objectives were

2 dramatically different.

3 Was that I reasonable statement? Would

4 you agree with that?

5 A. I believe my statement was along the lines

6 of it's substantially different.

7 Q. Okay. In the event that everything was

8 substantially different, wouldn't that have provided

9 for lower baselines when looking at -- you know,

10 lower baseline scores when looking at the scores

11 from that period when you're trying to determine a

12 baseline?

13 If [Student] struggles with the changes

14 and everything is now different, a baseline

15 generated from prior to winter break -- one could

16 presume that it would be lower?

17 A. I was not there to implement; so I can't

18 comment to that relative to [Student] and the

19 implementation of the IEP.

20 Q. You said something to the effect that your

21 goal or the goal -- and with some students do not

22 stay static, that they're -- do you recall this

23 conversation?

24 A. I recall Mr. Cohn-Lee asking me if --

25 Q. They're always changing and they don't

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1 stay static?

2 A. I recall that.

3 Q. Okay. Would you agree that some problems

4 do in fact stay static or are ever-present

5 throughout a child's education?

6 A. I believe that some areas of progress,

7 growth is much slower for some than others.

8 [PARENT]: Am I allowed to introduce

9 additional evidence at this time?

10 JUDGE HOUSE: What --

11 [PARENT]: Well, it would be on my stuff

12 that I said I was going to --

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Right. If you want to show

14 us something else --

15 [PARENT]: Offer an exhibit?

16 JUDGE HOUSE: You can if this witness

17 knows what it is and can -- you have to ask the

18 witness if he's seen it, if he knows anything about

19 it. If he's never seen it --

20 [PARENT]: Oh, okay. Okay. I will be

21 referencing S-16 I believe.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: So S-16 looks to be the --

23 it's three pages, "Confidential Information,

24 Functional Behavior Assessment and Behavior

25 Intervention Plan."

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1 BY [PARENT]:

2 Q. Do you recognize this document?

3 A. Yes.

4 [PARENT]: And I'm sorry. What was the

5 other thing I was supposed to ask?

6 JUDGE HOUSE: It's just laying a

7 foundation so --

8 [PARENT]: Can I offer this?

9 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent] wants to offer this

10 -- the what, the FBA?

11 [PARENT]: The Functional Behavioral

12 Assessment and Behavior Intervention Plan developed

13 -- well, this report was dated 10/30/13.

14 MR. COHN-LEE: I guess I'd have to defer

15 on that until I know what the purpose of the exhibit

16 is; for example, you know, how would it relate to

17 actual extended school year as opposed to just

18 general background information about the Student. I

19 just don't know.

20 [PARENT]: Well, it goes to the question

21 that I was just asking Mr. Kolb about related to his

22 staying static or had difficulties.

23 MR. COHN-LEE: I don't object if that's

24 the only question.

25 JUDGE HOUSE: I'm going to admit the

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1 document for that purpose.

2 (Whereupon, Parent's Exhibit S-16 was

3 admitted into evidence.)

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Go ahead.

5 [PARENT]: On the first page under

6 "Behaviors of Concern," it's reflected that

7 "[Student] has a history of leaving school staff

8 supervision without permission. Previous and current

9 staff hypothesize that this occurs to escape task or

10 environment."

11 I only bring this up because it seems that

12 in this instance they are relying on historical data

13 from Hawaii. And then in the next paragraph --

14 MR. COHN-LEE: Well, I --

15 JUDGE HOUSE: Let me ask -- I'm sorry, Mr.

16 Cohn-Lee. I'm just going to ask the witness -- you

17 might have an additional objection. (To [Parent])

18 Could you ask the wintess if that's what that was?

19 MR. COHN-LEE: That was my objection,

20 Judge.

21 BY [PARENT]:

22 Q. Well, when it says "Previous and current

23 staff hypothesize," who is that referring to?

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Can you answer that

25 question?

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1 THE WITNESS: I can't. I didn't write

2 this report.

3 BY [PARENT]:

4 Q. If you had to make a conjecture, knowing

5 that [Student] had been in your school district for

6 three months at the time that this was written, when

7 you read "Previous and current staff hypothesize,"

8 who would you presume that this report is referring

9 to?

10 MR. COHN-LEE: And I would object that I

11 think [Parent's] question on its face calls for

12 speculation, for assumption or a guess.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: Given the witness's

14 background and his position as director of special

15 services, I would assume that he would know what

16 this was based on or would ask.

17 So I'm just going to ask you if you read this

18 and this is a document -- let me ask it this way:

19 Have you seen this type of a document? Is this

20 familiar?

21 THE WITNESS: Yes.

22 JUDGE HOUSE: And if you saw that

23 reference, would you assume that that means staff

24 other than the first three months?

25 THE WITNESS: Yes.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. And so might that be

2 staff in the previous district?

3 THE WITNESS: Yes, it might be.

4 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

5 BY [PARENT]:

6 Q. And might that be referencing data from a

7 previous district?

8 MR. COHN-LEE: Well, I would --

9 JUDGE HOUSE: At that point I'm going to

10 sustain Mr. Cohn-Lee's objection. You're asking him

11 to infer or guess what the author meant.

12 [PARENT]: Okay.

13 JUDGE HOUSE: And I asked it in a general

14 way --

15 [PARENT]: Withdrawn.

16 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. You need to ask the

17 person who created these documents. All right.

18 BY [PARENT]:

19 Q. "[Student] has a history of regression" --

20 in the next paragraph, it states, "[Student] has a

21 history of regression." And then in the second

22 sentence it goes on again to say "previous and

23 current staff."

24 Would you answer similarly to the first

25 question?

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1 A. I would.

2 Q. And the same thing on the third paragraph

3 where it states, again, "[Student] has a history of

4 dropping on the floor" and "previous and current

5 staff hypothesize"?

6 A. I'd make a reasonable, educated assumption

7 that would include staff prior to [Student's] last

8 school district.

9 Q. So then when you stated earlier that you

10 did not expect to see Student stay static or carry

11 through problems and needs from year to year, would

12 you care to --

13 A. I didn't make that statement. The

14 questioning earlier was do some students stay

15 static, and my comments were some students make

16 minimal growth in progress areas.

17 Q. Reading this, would you presume that these

18 behaviors have been with [Student] longer than at

19 Grants Pass School District?

20 A. Absolutely.

21 Q. This report was created for what reason?

22 Do you know?

23 A. This one is a functional behavior

24 assessment as related to eligibility consider of --

25 part of our comprehensive evaluation for eligibility

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1 in the State of Oregon.

2 Q. And this report was reviewed by the IEP

3 team prior to the November 20th IEP meeting?

4 A. This report was submitted as part of the

5 November 19th eligibility meeting.

6 Q. Okay. So this report was available to the

7 IEP team November 20th?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. Thank you. Do you recall me requesting an

10 ESY determination in the 11/20 meeting, IEP meeting?

11 A. No.

12 Q. So you don't recall at all that I wanted

13 to make an ESY determination?

14 A. Are you asking for my recollection of the

15 meeting?

16 Q. Yes.

17 A. My recollection of the meeting is pretty

18 accurately stated in the meeting minutes which you

19 accepted and agreed that ESY did not need to be made

20 at that time.

21 Q. That wasn't --

22 A. And you disagreed --

23 Q. That wasn't the question.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: What I heard -- and let me

25 ask for clarification. What I heard you ask was:

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1 Do you recall me asking prior to that meeting to

2 have ESY determination -- was it at the meeting or

3 talk about ESY?

4 [PARENT]: I actually asked: Do you

5 recall me requesting an ESY determination in the

6 meeting of 11/20? It's a yes-or-no question.

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

8 THE WITNESS: No.

9 BY [PARENT]:

10 Q. If I didn't request an ESY determination,

11 how did ESY get brought up?

12 A. It's in the Oregon IEP. We're obligated

13 to address it annually in the development of the

14 IEP. It was facilitated by Ms. Armbrust.

15 Q. In a response to the question Mr. Cohn-Lee

16 made to you, you stated, "The entire team concurred

17 on 11/20," including yourself, "to put off of an ESY

18 determination."

19 Do you recall stating that?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Yet you had previously stated to me that

22 you had made the consensus determination and that

23 maybe you could recall one additional person brought

24 up something but did not concur with anything; is

25 that correct?

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1 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm going to object as to

2 vague and compound --

3 [PARENT]: Did you --

4 THE REPORTER: Okay. One at a time,

5 please.

6 JUDGE HOUSE: You're objecting to vague

7 and compound.

8 MR. COHN-LEE: Yes.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: I believe [Parent] is

10 recounting what he recalls an answer on direct

11 testimony was from this witness to him versus the

12 testimony in a similar question to you and that, to

13 [Parent], he had actually said it was -- (to

14 [Parent]) you -- (to Mr. Cohn-Lee) the Parent and he

15 who talked about it, there was maybe one other

16 person who mentioned it, they didn't agree, and he

17 as the District representative made the decision.

18 It was not a consensus.

19 And I think he's representing that the

20 testimony would say in the beginning on the record

21 it was not a consensus and, in his testimony to you,

22 he used the word "consensus" and affirmed that there

23 was consensus.

24 I noted that difference, but I'm not going

25 to say that I know that's true. I'd have to look at

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1 the record.

2 MR. COHN-LEE: Again, just to be clear,

3 we're talking about the November 20th meeting?

4 JUDGE HOUSE: Yes, as to whether there was

5 consensus to defer the decision. And I believe the

6 answer to [Parent's] question was "No, there was

7 not." And then it was asked by you, it was "Yes,

8 there was."

9 MR. COHN-LEE: And the only reason I

10 raised the compound objection -- it may be that was

11 the right objection to raise.

12 But actually I believe what I talked about

13 was the section of the meeting notes where there was

14 an agreement about not needing to decide on November

15 20th, and then we talked about deciding to meet by

16 April 16th. And I think then we talked about

17 disagreement by the Parent.

18 So it's actually -- there are two layers

19 to that, and that was my question.

20 So I guess I would object as I don't think

21 that accurately states the testimony as well, but

22 certainly if [Parent] wants to reask it with that

23 clarification, I would not have any idea.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

25 [PARENT]: I think the record will show

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1 that --

2 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay.

3 [PARENT]: I don't need to go into it any

4 further because I think the record will bring to

5 light the answer to my question.

6 So I have no further questions for Mr.

7 Kolb. Thank you.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: Redirect?

9 MR. COHN-LEE: Very briefly.

10 RECROSS-EXAMINATION

11 BY MR. COHN-LEE:

12 Q. Let's stay on -- do you still have that

13 16th -- S-16. If you want to stay on S-16.

14 And just as a general matter, do you

15 remember the purpose and kind of the genesis of why

16 this document was generated?

17 A. As part of a comprehensive assessment. A

18 student with significant behavioral challenges,

19 compelled to be comprehensive and develop a

20 functional behavior assessment looking at historical

21 information to inform behavior intervention plan

22 moving forward to strategies to utilize with this

23 student.

24 Q. And in your experience, is that type of

25 assessment information, is that germane or does that

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1 align with regression and recoupment data for ESY?

2 A. Behavior in and of itself would -- would

3 align with goals and objectives in the IEP, hence,

4 the evaluation in the area of behavior.

5 Q. And as of the date this report was

6 generated, 10/30/13, would the team have had any

7 opportunity to gauge any breaks in instruction to

8 generate recoupment and regression data?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Okay. In fact just to note, it says here

11 the "facilitator of this report."

12 Does that mean the person who drafted the

13 report?

14 A. Yes, drafted the report.

15 Q. And that's listed here as "Pamela

16 Schwerdt"?

17 A. Schwerdt.

18 Q. Okay. And was there a reason why Ms.

19 Schwerdt was being asked to draft this report?

20 A. Clearly [Student] needed behavior

21 intervention planning. Us wanting to contribute our

22 expert analysis of behavior, one of our experts on

23 behavior, wanting to inform the IEP presents levels

24 and hence informing the development of goals and

25 objectives for the upcoming eligibility in IEP

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1 meetings.

2 Q. Okay. But not ESY?

3 A. Not ESY.

4 Q. And again, just to be clear, simply having

5 static information about a student's behavioral

6 needs, would that be relevant or germane to a

7 measurement of regression or recoupment?

8 A. Not necessarily. If a student is

9 demonstrating over a long period of time limited

10 growth in an area, we still want to take a look at

11 is it the result of a lack of -- or a break in

12 service that may cause a significant or undue

13 regression and an inability to recoup within a

14 reasonable period of time.

15 Q. So just as a hypothetical, let's say a

16 student is demonstrating on a behavioral goal

17 clearly below progress or even regression on a

18 behavioral goal, so not a strict academic goal, but

19 that regression or low progress occurs during a

20 period when the student is in school or receiving

21 instruction, so no breaks in instruction.

22 Would that data be meaningful at all for

23 an ESY determination?

24 A. Not ESY because it's not relevant to a

25 break in service.

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1 When we're looking at an ESY, we want to

2 know is a break in service significantly impacting

3 the student.

4 If the student is receiving services the

5 entire time and regression is occurring potentially,

6 we've got a lot of things to look at in terms of

7 strategies and go back to our ongoing FBA work and

8 such to really take a look at it -- look at

9 medications and look at environmental factors and

10 the array of antecedents.

11 So -- but not relative to ESY.

12 Q. You were similarly asked a question by

13 [Parent] about whether or not [Student] had problems

14 with change. You indicated I think in the

15 affirmative that [Student] did have.

16 But again, related question: A student simply

17 having problems with change, how would that

18 necessarily be relevant to ESY and looking at breaks

19 in instruction?

20 A. Probably be talking to other witnesses who

21 can speak more expert to behavior and students who

22 are on the autism spectrum.

23 But as far as change, for students it's an

24 adjustment whether a student's going from one school

25 to another, from a new state to another. Might be a

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1 totally upside down routine, new person.

2 But as far as regression and recoupment,

3 given a change, is a student able to re-engage into

4 routines and activities, is it the result of the

5 break, break in service is the question that needs

6 to be asked -- answered.

7 Q. Okay. Mr. Kolb, that's all I have for

8 you. Thank you.

9 JUDGE HOUSE: [Parent]?

10 [PARENT]: I just have one.

11 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

12 RE-REDIRECT EXAMINATION

13 BY [PARENT]:

14 Q. Referring to Exhibit S-16, and to my S-4

15 --

16 MR. COHN-LEE: D-1 I think?

17 [PARENT]: What did we determine --

18 MR. COHN-LEE: It's all part of our D-1.

19 [PARENT]: In your D-1 under the OARs?

20 MR. COHN-LEE: Yeah. So D-1, and you're

21 looking at, yeah, page 4.

22 BY [PARENT]:

23 Q. Okay. So referring to the FBA and the BSP

24 and referring that information to the OARs, could

25 predictions be made utilizing this type of

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1 information according to the professional judgment

2 of the educators and the team?

3 A. Could predictions be made?

4 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm going to object as to

5 the vagueness. "Could" theoretically or could they

6 have been --

7 JUDGE HOUSE: Sustained. I'm sorry. I

8 should have let you finish the objection.

9 The question asks for general speculation.

10 Could you be more specific?

11 BY [PARENT]:

12 Q. "Predictions according to the professional

13 judgment of the team are to be on" -- is this the

14 type of information, "predictions according to the

15 professional judgment of the team"?

16 MR. COHN-LEE: I'm so sorry.

17 [PARENT]: No, that's okay. I'm having

18 trouble phrasing it, and I'll retract, and let me

19 think about it for a second.

20 MR. COHN-LEE: Sure.

21 BY [PARENT]:

22 Q. If no data exists, what would predictions

23 be made on? The professional judgment of the team

24 is going to make predictions. If no data exists,

25 what would those predictions be based on?

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1 MR. COHN-LEE: And I'm going to object as

2 to vague and speculative.

3 [PARENT]: And speculative?

4 JUDGE HOUSE: It's a hypothetical question

5 is what he's trying to ask. And I think I'm going

6 to allow it, but I'm going to try to get it a little

7 bit more clearly.

8 Are you asking if in the instance of a

9 student who has behavioral issues and a history of

10 behavioral issues, could an IEP decision be made

11 based on professional judgment of the team under

12 Section 5 to rule out ESY?

13 [PARENT]: Yes, that's what I'm pretty

14 much trying to say.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: It's a hypothetical, could

16 that happen.

17 THE WITNESS: Can you restate the entire

18 question for me. I heard it --

19 BY [PARENT]:

20 Q. Is this not the type of data?

21 JUDGE HOUSE: When you say "is this" -- I

22 think [Parent] is referring to the type of behavior

23 information that's in the FEA BIP.

24 Is that what you were referring to?

25 [PARENT]: Yes.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. Referring to that,

2 could the IEP make as provided under Section 5 a

3 prediction based on their professional judgment

4 about the Student's needs for ESY?

5 MR. COHN-LEE: Judge, just so I

6 understand, we're -- is [Parent] asking is the

7 specific information in this FBA, or is he asking --

8 [PARENT]: The specific --

9 MR. COHN-LEE: -- any potential FBA ever

10 made? That's what I'm --

11 JUDGE HOUSE: I believe he's asking if he

12 had this FBA (indicating) in the EIP, could a team

13 make professional judgment as to whether ESY was

14 needed or not.

15 [PARENT]: Could it be used as a basis?

16 JUDGE HOUSE: Can that be used as a basis

17 for the professional judgment?

18 THE WITNESS: I would not support that as

19 a special ed director to use this report as a basis

20 for ESY determination.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: All right.

22 BY [PARENT]:

23 Q. You would not -- is there instance where

24 you would as a special ed director support an ESY

25 determination with a lack of documented data?

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1 A. Yes.

2 JUDGE HOUSE: That has been asked and

3 answered.

4 [PARENT]: Okay. Sorry. I'm done then.

5 JUDGE HOUSE: Okay. I'm going to assume

6 this witness will remain because he's here.

7 MR. COHN-LEE: He has to.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: And he'll be subject to

9 probably more questioning if needed. (To [Parent]) I

10 know that you needed to leave at 4:30. It's 4:17.

11 Is there anything that can be accomplished in 10

12 minutes?

13 [PARENT]: I can begin testifying, but I

14 actually have to use the restroom.

15 JUDGE HOUSE: Why don't we do that

16 tomorrow, and we'll start with you at 10:30 --

17 10:30. That would be nice. 8:30.

18 MR. HUNGERFORD: After talking to them, we

19 could begin even at 8:00. They open the doors at

20 7:45.

21 JUDGE HOUSE: I don't want to make it

22 impossible for everyone. Can we be here earlier?

23 THE REPORTER: Yes.

24 JUDGE HOUSE: 8:00. [PARENT]?

25 [PARENT]: I can do 8:00.

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1 JUDGE HOUSE: Mr. Cohn-Lee?

2 MR. COHN-LEE: (No audible response.)

3 JUDGE HOUSE: The question will be the

4 ALJ. We will reconvene then at 8:00. It's 4:18.

5 Is there anything else I need to address

6 on the record?

7 MR. COHN-LEE: No, Judge.

8 JUDGE HOUSE: All right. Let's go ahead

9 and go off the record.

10 (The proceedings was adjourned for the day

11 at 4:18 p.m.)

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 246 of 335
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1 CERTIFICATE

2

3 I, Cecily A. Yates, certify that the foregoing

4 was repoted and reduced to written form; that the

5 prepared by me or under my direction, is a true and

6 record of same to the best of my knowledge and ability;

7 there is no relation nor employment by any attorney or

8 counsel employed by the parties hereto, nor financial or

9 otherwise interest in the action filed or outcome.

10

11 IN WITNESS HEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

12 this 21st day of May, 2014.

13

14

15

16

17

18 /S/ Cecily A. Yates

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 247 of 335
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0

015-2065

49:24

1

1 22:19 22:20

22:23 22:24

22:24 28:13

44:22 58:15

80:17 103:8

103:8

110:25

111:1 111:2

113:1

173:17

174:12

175:7

194:11

213:2

213:23

213:23

217:2

1:30 131:1

1:32 131:3

10 18:22 68:1

187:8 192:5

192:10

195:14

195:15

196:5 196:6

221:25

245:11

10/30/13

228:13

238:6

10:30

245:16

245:17

10:57 80:2

106 57:25

61:12 61:17

10th 23:24

24:3 24:7

143:13

182:11

184:25

193:23

194:22

195:6 195:9

196:1 196:3

198:18

199:3

199:13

199:17

200:3

200:19

201:25

204:1

207:20

211:21

212:12

11/20 150:5

233:10

234:6

234:17

11/20/2013

100:8 102:4

105:7

11:17 80:3

12 22:21

22:23 23:23

25:2 68:1

12:30

130:24

131:1 131:2

13 4:3

13th 4:13

68:17

14 148:19

14-102 4:12

15 22:19

79:23 99:22

15-minute

189:11

16 147:16

195:22

16.5 225:22

16-day 186:16

16th 28:25

107:10

137:24

138:1 138:2

138:6 138:6

139:19

139:20

140:16

147:16

150:6

150:12

151:5 167:7

170:7

170:12

171:2

171:12

201:19

204:12

236:16

237:13

18th 6:19 7:4

40:3 89:3

143:14

146:7

146:12

151:22

151:24

153:1 190:9

190:11

190:23

198:5

199:19

200:20

204:22

19 184:15

19th 6:16

162:9 233:5

2

2 28:13

43:5

44:13 44:22

47:23

48:1 48:8

51:21

52:1 53:2

56:3

56:13

58:5 59:6

59:11 59:11

62:5 64:8

65:3 65:3

68:22

86:9

86:24

87:9

87:15 87:16

87:20 87:23

88:4

94:25

95:1 95:3

95:3 96:8

96:8 161:13

173:17

213:24

213:25

2)(i 215:9

2:45 189:10

189:13

2003 13:25

2004 10:6

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 248 of 335
Hearing - Held On May 13, 2014 NDT Assgn # 018221-1 Page 249

2011 66:25

2013 6:19 7:4

27:5

28:25 29:14

40:3

41:18 41:20

42:8

67:12 67:14

67:15 67:17

68:10 89:25

126:19

160:2

160:14

160:24

161:11

161:22

164:14

177:8

177:24

180:9 181:3

184:3

223:24

2013/2014

183:1

183:23

2014 4:3 5:22

6:2 6:16

6:19 7:4

27:3 40:4

178:1

180:11

182:11

190:9

190:23

198:5

198:18

199:3

199:13

207:20

211:21

212:12

2065 49:2

20th 6:19 7:3

29:13 32:22

40:3 89:3

109:17

119:6

125:24

126:14

127:19

137:16

137:19

137:22

150:21

161:11

161:22

164:14

164:25

170:6 181:3

184:3

184:14

185:14

199:18

202:3

204:21

205:25

223:23

233:3 233:7

236:3

236:15

21 201:5

201:7

218:24

219:11

21st 6:1

184:8 187:6

187:7

23 103:12

104:8 107:3

115:14

116:1

118:15

119:4

164:17

23rd 184:11

23th 127:7

24 104:9

107:3

115:14

164:17

27 102:4

102:21

103:9

103:17

104:7

27th 160:2

28 102:4

102:21

103:9

103:10

103:17

104:7 201:5

201:8

2-A 194:15

3

3 58:15

69:3

69:14 69:15

69:15 69:23

69:25

70:7

70:17

71:4 72:8

72:9 72:9

73:12

77:6 83:4

94:4 95:1

95:4 96:8

173:17

173:18

3:00 155:24

3:04 189:13

300.106

57:3 58:1

58:4

58:25

59:6

59:12 61:13

213:24

300.320

59:8

59:16 59:21

60:19 214:3

214:8

300.324 59:16

59:22 60:20

61:11 61:19

62:3

64:19 214:3

31st 146:11

320 60:9

324 59:9 60:9

61:13 61:14

61:16

35 155:18

4

4 43:16 48:16

48:21 48:22

49:2 49:8

49:23 50:15

50:22 50:24

51:5

51:21 51:23

52:1 61:7

61:8

61:21

65:4

66:11 67:10

68:21 71:1

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 249 of 335
Hearing - Held On May 13, 2014 NDT Assgn # 018221-1 Page 250

73:10 74:10

75:20 76:15

77:5 77:7

80:6

80:11

173:22

213:4

213:11

217:3 217:4

241:21

4:17 245:10

4:18 246:4

246:11

4:30 189:19

245:10

4th 160:5

5

5 74:11 80:25

81:21

85:9

85:18

87:8

87:15 87:17

87:20

88:1

94:23

95:3 173:22

213:4 217:7

243:12

244:2

51.9 9:16

581 49:23

581-015 48:25

581-015-

2065 47:9

5th 5:21

6

6 55:16

96:8

97:12 99:11

198:7

213:13

6th 184:24

7

7 25:1 52:4

52:12

53:5 182:25

213:11

7:45 245:20

7th 160:6

8

8 148:25

150:1

199:10

8:00 245:19

245:24

245:25

246:4

8:30 189:20

245:17

9

9 148:25

150:1

208:15

9/16 27:4

9:00 4:14

9:05 4:4 4:14

9:20 17:10

9:21 17:11

9:41 34:14

9:49 34:14

9th 184:25

A

a.m 4:4 17:10

17:11 34:14

34:15

80:2 80:3

abbreviate

49:9

abilities

174:17

ability 48:15

176:12

187:22

193:1 204:5

221:3

221:23

222:1

able 18:19

18:24 145:8

159:10

176:22

177:13

186:16

186:18

196:9

197:19

241:3

absence 84:25

87:19

absolutely

180:23

181:8

197:21

232:20

academic

215:11

221:13

222:13

223:15

239:18

accept 154:7

acceptable

169:6

169:10

accepted

105:6 150:5

166:14

233:19

access

204:6 221:3

221:15

221:23

222:20

accommodate

17:2

accomplished

245:11

accomplishing

163:22

accordance

31:6 52:7

52:15

53:5 53:8

53:15 58:16

59:4 59:8

60:9 214:2

according

24:11 28:17

55:16 74:16

75:24

81:3

85:11 138:2

151:9

151:12

160:20

162:12

184:15

217:12

217:17

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 250 of 335
Hearing - Held On May 13, 2014 NDT Assgn # 018221-1 Page 251

242:1

242:12

242:14

Accordingly

28:10 29:8

account

155:19

207:14

accurate

24:16

140:18

187:18

195:18

accurately

83:25

233:18

236:21

acquiring

125:9

acronym 87:25

214:25

across

24:15 164:6

act 10:5 10:7

115:10

acted 31:6

action 107:13

109:8 128:3

138:8 138:9

138:13

141:17

141:18

142:9

142:17

198:4

212:11

actions

145:20

active 153:10

activities

193:6 241:4

actual

47:20

100:15

178:11

185:12

220:12

228:17

actually 8:10

10:6 11:4

20:9 22:9

22:20 27:20

27:21 33:10

36:12

45:2

45:15 50:21

51:4

62:23 67:24

79:19

82:6 83:8

86:10

95:1 100:19

105:23

110:7

116:23

129:21

132:8 158:9

159:10

163:5 168:3

169:2 169:9

172:4

173:16

182:23

185:1

186:15

186:18

188:13

193:17

195:12

195:15

196:17

203:2

203:14

206:8 206:9

208:11

208:12

213:25

221:6 221:8

223:21

234:4

235:13

236:12

236:18

245:14

add 116:12

116:15

added 44:2

addition

22:18 89:7

additional

22:21 26:17

28:2

60:18 102:8

102:10

116:5 135:2

139:15

152:20

152:22

187:14

187:15

187:25

190:3 190:4

191:20

227:9

229:17

234:23

additionally

53:23 54:11

113:7

113:18

157:14

191:4 191:6

202:12

address

6:17

22:12 23:19

23:20 29:22

30:5

31:23

36:7 45:6

50:7

63:13 95:23

119:15

167:15

203:19

207:3

221:22

222:7

234:13

246:5

addressed

78:14

116:11

156:11

208:6 209:5

222:2

adhere 147:14

adhered

154:24

adjourned

246:10

adjustment

185:25

186:7

240:24

administrativ

e 4:7 4:8

6:23

13:13 13:14

42:10 44:1

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47:20 57:16

57:20 75:23

76:18

96:1 101:11

105:17

114:16

144:17

administrator

158:9

admissible

46:1

admission

33:2 211:5

admit 228:25

admitted 25:1

25:5

34:19

43:1 43:3

46:5

60:25

61:2

105:3

105:12

148:16

154:16

161:16

161:18

162:1 162:3

174:10

190:19

190:21

198:10

198:12

198:22

198:24

201:4

207:13

207:16

208:18

208:21

209:16

209:18

210:3

211:15

211:17

212:6

212:18

212:20

229:3

adopted

214:17

adults 193:1

advance 26:16

197:12

212:23

advice 14:9

14:10

affect 204:19

205:18

affirmative

240:15

affirmatively

197:6

affirmed

235:22

afford

88:21 151:3

170:13

afforded

125:1

191:21

192:13

196:14

196:16

affording

54:1 54:14

afternoon

144:15

agencies

113:17

125:13

Agency 59:5

agenda

92:15 92:16

164:20

191:7

191:10

199:2 207:6

ago 65:23

67:1 68:1

agreeable

165:17

167:4

167:18

agreed 106:18

138:3 150:6

165:6 165:9

204:13

233:19

agreeing

147:13

agreement

107:11

108:18

137:12

165:25

167:1

199:25

201:14

202:9

202:11

236:14

agreements

61:22

ahead 15:6

20:3

24:25 39:12

39:17

44:4 46:6

48:14

49:5

51:15

64:5 75:3

75:8 78:5

79:23

80:4

88:22

90:8 94:1

95:13

103:18

106:4 117:7

119:12

121:23

125:21

134:1

135:21

153:16

156:18

169:23

172:13

189:10

199:21

229:4 246:8

albeit 188:18

align 238:1

238:3

alignment

56:14 80:12

80:20

aligns 96:1

96:5

ALJ 246:4

allegation

36:17

allege 37:1

alleged 7:8

7:15 9:24

allocation

113:16

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allow 12:25

20:13 29:20

84:5 132:18

207:11

243:6

allowed

37:2 37:4

62:24

156:10

227:8

already

37:7

65:13 65:15

106:2

139:18

157:4 163:2

187:11

188:20

201:4 208:9

220:3

alternative

214:13

214:14

214:15

214:16

219:21

am 8:10 9:8

20:6

29:18 37:13

54:23

57:6 57:9

65:6

98:12 99:13

136:23

140:17

173:3 227:8

amazing 186:6

ambiguity

82:7 97:21

ambiguous

97:13

amend 68:9

amended 25:13

26:5

26:22 46:17

46:18

67:3 67:6

67:14 67:16

68:11 89:22

204:22

207:19

amending

66:20

amendments

61:22

among 135:23

amongst

130:21

amount 175:14

analysis

238:22

and/or

94:17

178:21

187:18

annual 71:6

73:10

181:18

215:8

215:10

annually

69:21 70:12

72:15 78:12

79:16 89:19

177:17

234:13

answer 13:2

15:6 39:7

39:7 54:7

54:11

55:9

55:22 63:10

66:1

66:13 68:13

70:6

71:20

72:2

72:14

75:1 75:3

75:5 76:2

76:19 76:22

82:6

82:21 85:25

88:9

97:22

101:20

101:24

102:15

112:8

112:17

118:5

118:17

119:13

128:14

133:8 133:9

135:24

140:10

192:23

229:24

231:24

235:10

236:6 237:5

answered

54:19 84:13

93:16 99:15

99:17

106:23

128:18

140:24

147:1 241:6

245:3

answers 154:3

antecedent

168:14

antecedents

240:10

anticipate

18:1

18:21 79:25

anticipated

16:20

anticipating

17:1

anybody 99:3

anyone 5:8

5:15

34:13 116:2

149:9

154:15

anything 14:1

14:23 15:17

25:7

39:11 50:16

52:16

117:11

130:19

135:13

221:20

227:18

234:24

245:11

246:5

anyway 21:7

63:18 136:3

154:11

anywhere

48:10 51:25

55:23

58:3 58:24

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108:24

apologies

25:21 108:3

apologize

10:15

11:6

55:11 76:25

106:2

116:19

197:12

212:23

apparent

30:20

Apparently

145:10

149:18

appeal 13:22

appealed

13:20

205:21

appear

17:21 32:17

110:3 119:5

120:20

appeared

170:4

appears

8:25

31:17

35:7

41:12 43:25

44:14 102:3

102:24

103:12

103:15

109:6 109:7

149:1 151:9

211:9

apples

181:9

224:12

applies

9:10

18:15

225:20

apply 13:16

23:14

176:18

199:17

218:12

218:14

225:19

applying 48:9

appointed

163:4

163:19

163:25

appreciate

8:17 209:1

apprise 28:11

approached

117:20

appropriate

7:11 10:3

10:11 21:16

36:19 52:20

73:18

77:9

77:13 78:18

79:1 80:9

97:5 97:7

97:10

100:22

177:10

177:11

193:20

201:17

appropriately

69:7 218:20

approved

219:5

approximately

68:1 194:2

April 6:1

23:24

24:3 24:7

107:10

137:19

137:22

137:24

138:1 138:6

138:6

139:19

139:20

140:16

143:13

147:15

147:16

150:12

151:5 167:7

167:15

170:7

170:12

171:2

171:12

177:5

182:11

193:23

194:21

195:6 195:9

196:1 196:3

198:18

199:3

199:13

199:17

200:3

201:19

201:25

202:16

204:1

204:12

204:17

205:7 207:1

207:20

211:21

212:12

236:16

area 59:24

108:23

109:8 136:4

169:3

213:18

221:13

221:25

222:1 238:4

239:10

areas 73:19

96:10

102:12

174:17

177:17

187:23

215:24

216:8

221:10

223:4 227:6

232:16

aren't 91:8

argue 63:4

97:19 205:2

205:23

argued 44:8

argues 32:13

arguing 204:8

argument

22:18

33:3

33:23 62:22

63:16 72:21

179:18

argumentative

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73:1

arguments

33:24 196:3

arise 113:18

Armbrust

107:17

108:1 122:2

122:10

163:24

164:4 169:2

169:9

234:14

arrangements

18:10

array 240:10

arrive 160:19

arrived

177:24

180:25

art 107:24

assess 214:17

assessment

191:2

214:20

215:2

227:24

228:12

232:24

237:17

237:20

237:25

assessments

214:13

214:14

214:15

214:16

216:3

assigned

107:18

assist 166:9

assistant

105:17

144:17

158:12

158:14

assisting 5:5

associated

178:21

assume

10:17 12:13

30:24 33:25

47:10 105:5

149:2

230:15

230:23

245:5

assumed 140:2

assuming 18:7

136:24

205:22

206:4

assumption

90:25

230:12

232:6

attached

143:19

attempt

106:16

192:24

attempted

122:2

attempting

88:16

attempts

159:18

attend 142:23

149:22

attendance

90:18 91:24

128:24

attendees

111:2

149:16

149:23

attending

5:10 159:15

attention

14:22

attorney

131:11

audible 19:25

54:21 83:15

105:9

194:20

246:2

August

41:18 41:20

42:8 43:8

43:9 66:2

66:20

67:4

67:11 67:14

67:15 67:17

68:10 68:14

68:16 89:23

authenticate

197:24

210:11

authenticity

210:2 210:4

author 231:11

authority

113:22

authorize

113:22

autism 159:24

223:5

240:22

avail 178:24

available

19:23 84:17

84:23

88:2 163:11

165:5 233:6

avenues 13:22

avoid 95:9

aware 5:9

41:22

172:23

172:24

173:3

186:22

B

background

157:3 157:5

228:18

230:14

backtrack

46:25

bad 133:2

balancing

9:16

base 41:25

42:2 42:3

55:3

55:12 55:24

74:3 129:17

177:3 177:6

based 6:15

14:17

15:9 25:14

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34:2 42:1

42:8

43:14

55:2

57:11 59:15

59:19 59:20

61:14 62:17

70:22 74:14

86:11 86:24

87:20 87:23

88:5

89:19 94:17

109:25

110:2 113:7

114:15

114:18

118:14

118:18

119:14

123:3 123:4

123:17

123:20

124:4 124:5

124:19

129:4 130:4

139:6

153:12

166:11

166:22

171:19

175:17

177:18

180:9

180:14

180:15

181:25

186:5

186:21

188:16

201:10

205:4

217:10

220:24

222:25

223:3 223:3

224:15

230:16

242:25

243:11

244:3

baseline

188:5

188:10

226:10

226:12

226:14

baselines

226:9

bases 173:1

basically

47:9

69:15

72:9

159:4 211:6

basics 13:12

basis 23:10

32:23 53:20

59:8 60:9

62:16 130:2

130:3

159:15

171:16

172:18

172:20

179:19

214:2

244:15

244:16

244:19

Bear 20:15

99:20

140:25

154:21

216:22

bearing

223:19

bears 7:13

became 40:8

158:8

become

14:21

154:11

becomes 24:23

begin 8:23

21:3

22:10

218:25

245:13

245:19

beginning

27:16 30:13

44:22

90:3 95:5

110:16

110:21

110:22

122:7 154:8

157:3 159:4

203:24

235:20

begins 14:21

behalf

39:18

113:23

behavior 43:7

47:24 48:12

48:18 49:11

49:12 49:14

49:21 49:25

50:1 51:1

52:3 53:3

53:18 53:19

53:21

56:5 58:6

59:2 62:6

64:9

68:23 80:18

87:25

172:22

189:5 191:2

191:3

213:19

220:25

221:4 222:1

223:5

223:15

227:24

227:24

228:12

232:23

237:20

237:21

238:2 238:4

238:20

238:22

238:23

240:21

243:22

behavioral

196:8

222:13

223:7

228:11

237:18

239:5

239:16

239:18

243:9

243:10

behaviors

48:19

50:8

50:10 50:11

51:20

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86:7 175:16

213:18

221:14

229:6

232:18

belief

129:6 130:2

130:3

believe

5:20 19:9

20:18 23:14

27:22 31:19

33:17 48:16

49:7

54:23 55:22

56:13 58:13

58:14 58:20

61:20

64:7

64:21 75:18

76:13 77:14

78:2

78:19

79:2

81:22 82:18

88:3

90:19

98:9 106:15

114:8

114:12

114:15

115:3 115:8

122:2 122:9

129:8

129:24

130:13

133:13

135:24

142:7 143:8

145:2 160:6

165:8

175:12

175:12

177:11

186:10

191:5

192:24

213:11

225:12

226:5 227:6

227:21

235:9 236:5

236:12

244:11

believes

63:10

172:11

Bernadette

4:7

best 47:7

47:19 48:15

50:3

101:1

108:25

109:3

122:20

128:6

141:22

142:2 142:5

144:3 144:6

145:14

146:6 147:8

147:10

159:7

better

18:24

177:12

192:19

beyond

28:13

219:22

binder

161:2 173:9

binders 30:14

38:16

BIP 243:23

bit 11:2

38:19 81:12

93:15

115:22

121:12

123:9 131:7

134:6

134:12

158:5

158:21

160:23

166:5

179:16

180:4

183:25

187:16

190:1

190:13

192:19

197:13

212:24

212:25

243:7

black 161:1

black-andwhite

225:25

blank 219:16

blocked

159:18

bolt 159:18

book 45:5

bottom

103:9 171:7

201:17

219:11

bounce 212:25

box 138:4

brand 29:7

124:2

break 24:10

24:13 24:15

34:13 38:21

74:21 79:20

147:12

150:23

151:4 152:2

153:5 153:8

155:20

156:22

165:18

167:3 167:5

167:16

167:18

175:22

175:22

176:25

177:4 178:9

182:17

182:19

182:20

184:6 184:7

184:13

185:2 185:3

185:5 185:7

185:14

186:4

186:17

186:25

187:2 187:3

187:5 188:4

189:7

189:11

190:2 190:4

191:22

192:4 194:4

194:7

194:17

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194:18

194:19

194:25

195:8 195:8

195:20

195:24

200:12

203:1 203:5

203:6

206:10

208:24

208:24

209:1 212:1

218:4 218:8

225:23

226:15

239:11

239:25

240:2 241:5

241:5

breaking

188:20

breaks 112:23

186:2

192:10

194:14

238:7

239:21

240:18

brief 15:16

22:18 23:25

28:17

briefly

32:8 122:22

182:17

188:3

188:18

237:9

bring 22:4

51:6 99:3

103:1 110:8

117:9 179:4

229:11

237:4

bringing

22:16

broad 58:1

112:6

205:11

brought

7:13 9:24

23:16

54:3

125:6 128:7

128:10

137:15

170:18

173:23

186:12

197:14

234:11

234:23

BSP 241:23

build 134:11

building

18:23

159:19

178:20

built 223:14

bunch 213:21

burden 7:13

9:5

132:10

204:19

204:23

business 28:8

211:6 211:8

C

calendar

182:23

182:25

183:1

183:23

185:2 185:4

187:3 194:1

195:15

195:22

195:23

195:25

196:6

cancelled

184:21

capacity 40:6

40:13

158:18

care 18:10

189:18

232:12

carry 232:10

case 4:12

5:25 6:6

6:9 7:12

9:6 9:6

10:13 11:24

12:24

13:7

13:18 13:23

15:18

21:8

22:11 22:22

24:12 24:20

31:23 32:13

33:17 36:15

36:21

63:3 116:16

123:21

131:11

132:14

134:9

134:23

134:25

144:4

153:25

169:8

180:21

180:24

182:7

183:25

200:6

200:13

200:17

201:23

215:9

217:18

cases 13:19

13:25 73:16

77:7

78:16

154:23

catch 54:24

category 52:7

159:22

cause 239:12

caution 190:4

cell 5:13

17:6 18:2

18:5

18:20 176:6

center 149:2

central

31:5 134:24

200:5 200:6

200:13

certain

114:17

189:1

certainly

11:3 23:21

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24:4 24:5

24:8 28:4

29:23

180:20

208:25

236:22

cetera 101:12

CFRs 213:22

214:7

challenges

117:21

186:2 186:7

188:19

237:18

change

45:13

132:17

180:22

188:23

188:23

188:23

207:21

209:25

240:14

240:17

240:23

241:3

changed

29:5

33:18

185:22

changes 61:22

152:5

185:20

225:16

226:13

changing

188:13

226:25

charge 114:8

chart 196:13

charts

87:25 197:1

check 135:4

135:5

checked 138:4

check-in

134:12

child 53:14

59:10

124:16

176:11

214:5

215:13

221:14

children

179:24

child's 48:17

49:10 49:25

52:8

52:10 52:15

52:17

53:8

53:15 53:17

58:17

59:4 60:8

214:1

215:12

215:13

215:15

215:16

227:5

chime 220:4

chimed 147:11

chose 9:5

Christmas

153:5

182:21

182:21

Cindy 91:4

91:16 91:22

92:5

C-i-n-d-y

91:16

circuit 13:20

circumstances

82:17

cited 56:1

claims 192:9

clarification

64:23

66:5 107:22

233:25

236:23

clarify 25:22

36:11

45:2 45:4

45:20

49:7

53:11 55:20

58:23 71:21

82:9

83:17

86:5

122:3 156:9

clarity 60:24

105:23

classrooms

158:1

clear 20:18

48:20 50:19

54:19

68:5 70:6

70:7

97:21 97:24

98:1

205:8

218:15

220:10

221:6

223:23

224:11

236:2 239:4

clearly 9:1

24:10 93:15

199:22

238:20

239:17

243:7

clerical/

conference

187:7

close 7:20

8:5 18:3

closing 63:17

63:20

Code 213:22

214:7

Cohn 23:12

37:18 42:23

202:7

Cohn-Lee

5:1 5:1 5:5

5:7 6:2

7:17

11:13 11:15

11:19

13:4

14:10

15:2

15:16 16:15

16:18 16:24

18:7 19:2

19:9

19:15

21:8

21:23 22:9

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22:20 23:18

23:21

25:9 26:9

27:7 27:9

27:14 27:17

30:6 30:9

30:12 30:16

30:19 32:12

32:24

34:1 34:7

34:24

35:7 36:6

36:13

38:6 39:8

41:4 41:7

42:25 43:24

44:24

45:1

50:18

51:4

52:18 52:22

71:12 79:19

81:7

81:11

82:4 83:6

83:15 83:23

94:24 97:15

99:13

100:11

100:25

101:2 101:9

103:11

104:15

104:19

104:24

105:3 105:9

105:22

106:22

114:24

123:8

131:21

134:3

137:21

140:17

141:5

143:12

147:22

148:4 148:8

148:12

148:18

148:21

156:4

156:15

156:20

158:20

161:12

161:19

161:23

162:4 163:1

167:11

167:12

167:19

170:2 172:4

172:14

173:15

174:4

174:11

176:14

183:4

183:12

183:17

183:20

189:9

189:12

189:24

190:16

190:22

193:8

193:11

197:5 198:6

198:13

198:19

198:25

199:9

199:20

199:22

200:24

201:2 201:7

202:17

203:25

205:8

205:13

205:22

206:2 206:7

206:12

206:18

206:23

207:2 207:9

207:12

207:17

207:23

208:4

208:10

208:14

208:22

209:19

210:9

210:13

210:21

211:18

211:22

212:8

212:13

212:21

215:5

216:16

220:18

221:5

223:21

226:24

228:14

228:23

229:14

229:16

229:19

230:10

231:8

234:15

235:1 235:8

235:14

236:2 236:9

237:9

237:11

241:16

241:18

241:20

242:4

242:16

242:20

243:1 244:5

244:9 245:7

246:1 246:2

246:7

Cohn-Lee's

231:10

collect

50:9 55:7

119:20

121:19

124:14

147:12

151:4

166:16

171:1

186:25

collected

28:17 152:2

152:6

182:19

196:11

200:12

203:2 203:8

collecting

86:6 185:19

collection

100:21

153:6

170:19

college

157:23

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colloquy

163:3

164:15

166:7

166:19

170:21

170:24

170:25

171:8 172:5

191:23

coloquy 220:5

column

61:20 61:21

107:4 107:8

107:14

combined

45:11

comes 36:12

37:8

37:25

154:24

160:9

comfortwise

14:3

coming 116:21

137:10

145:15

comment

107:15

203:11

203:12

226:18

commentary

167:4

comments

130:4 130:6

151:16

166:6

182:16

232:15

commingled

206:12

common

122:3

122:10

169:3

communication

163:14

223:5

223:15

compared

214:21

comparing

103:6 181:9

compel 6:7

6:11 25:24

compelled

237:19

complaint

7:13 9:24

23:16 36:17

36:24

complete

100:19

100:20

102:9

103:14

134:9

147:24

147:25

completed

27:9

completely

29:10 31:13

31:20 33:14

35:9

35:18 140:9

156:11

completeness

100:23

101:1 101:2

101:3 208:1

compliance

6:21

62:18 118:7

157:13

complies

61:10 70:20

161:5

164:18

194:10

198:2

198:15

comply 37:2

162:11

complying

9:13 36:18

components

214:11

214:12

215:6

compound

72:25

111:11

235:2 235:7

236:10

compounded

186:2

comprehensive

50:6 177:19

215:22

232:25

237:17

237:19

concept

179:17

concern

98:7 137:14

170:7

170:11

170:13

196:7

221:17

222:8 229:6

concerned

56:6 187:16

concerning

24:16

concerns

108:16

178:2 188:8

188:9

conclude

157:16

concluded

179:12

conclusion

193:18

concur 33:5

61:15 61:16

85:16

234:24

concurred

86:13

234:16

condition

159:22

conduct 200:8

conducted

162:7 162:8

conducting

145:23

conference

5:23 15:9

confidence

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185:18

188:10

Confidential

227:23

conflict 87:2

151:2

conflicting

87:7

conflicts

87:9

confused

98:15

conjecture

230:4

consecutive

185:1 187:8

187:9 192:5

195:21

consensus

107:10

129:4 129:7

129:8

129:10

129:11

129:13

129:15

129:17

129:18

129:25

130:10

130:13

137:18

138:10

138:14

140:2 140:4

140:11

140:14

170:5

202:11

234:22

235:18

235:21

235:22

235:23

236:5

consesus

140:13

consider 6:20

6:24 59:3

69:20 70:11

70:16 70:23

72:14 78:11

124:6

124:13

147:4

194:21

219:21

219:23

232:24

consideration

69:12

72:3

79:13 82:15

121:6

138:23

138:24

138:25

170:12

191:7

200:19

204:24

considered

38:2

71:10

124:25

125:17

145:19

145:22

167:8 175:1

201:18

208:12

211:25

219:16

221:10

considering

88:20

139:24

223:11

consisted

112:10

112:13

consistent

146:3 220:1

consolidate

6:7 6:12

consultation

96:11

contact 112:1

112:3

contacted

159:1

contain

178:11

193:17

contained

24:9 158:1

contains 24:9

contend 80:20

153:9

content 59:24

104:13

104:22

116:13

116:16

222:15

contention

53:1

95:25

96:4 127:11

137:9

context 45:9

continue

147:12

155:22

189:22

continued

125:6 178:7

continuing

156:21

178:1

contract

163:8

contribute

40:15 113:6

238:21

contributing

139:23

convene

4:13

181:3 200:3

convened

190:11

190:24

190:25

208:5

208:16

convening

4:10 181:18

conversation

108:11

116:14

124:17

169:5

226:23

conversations

19:16

115:17

137:6 159:5

coordinator

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158:10

copied

46:10 47:10

65:10 68:14

68:18

copies

26:23 30:15

141:9

copy 11:16

26:9

30:21

41:1 41:6

41:21 43:16

43:19 43:20

44:18 47:14

47:16 47:18

56:23

57:1 60:1

60:22 60:23

60:25

61:1

68:15 100:5

105:14

141:4 141:6

141:8 142:7

144:11

144:13

145:6 173:8

196:17

196:19

correct

4:22 4:23

5:6 5:7

17:24 25:25

26:3

26:13

27:5

40:12 42:11

46:3 49:1

49:3 56:9

56:12 63:20

65:12

66:1 67:2

67:13 68:15

70:13 71:11

80:13 85:18

85:19 86:14

86:25 88:14

89:24

91:2

98:20 98:24

100:9

100:10

102:5 102:6

104:15

105:8 111:3

111:7 113:3

115:17

120:2 128:9

132:2

136:23

137:20

139:5

139:14

139:16

141:22

142:1 142:3

146:4 146:5

146:8 146:9

151:14

151:18

151:20

154:8

162:17

162:18

162:24

164:2

165:23

166:3 166:4

167:8 167:9

167:19

168:22

170:8 170:9

181:4 181:5

181:21

182:3 184:3

184:4 185:3

188:7

190:11

190:12

190:15

193:19

193:24

193:25

208:4 210:9

211:2

216:16

216:21

218:10

219:24

224:1 224:6

224:10

225:13

233:8

234:25

correctly

84:3 162:21

correctness

24:2

correlate

224:13

224:15

corroborate

203:15

counsel 28:6

country 173:5

couple 138:18

139:10

188:11

197:14

213:10

223:24

course 9:9

46:14

189:12

193:11

211:7

court 8:12

8:19

13:20 13:21

21:25

102:21

106:1

115:19

153:15

155:19

cover 14:23

33:8

covered 36:16

53:12 92:20

92:21 92:23

92:25

93:4

157:2 157:4

create 9:2

14:16

46:9 65:16

created

45:9 105:16

205:1

231:17

232:21

creating

201:21

creation

124:14

210:25

criteria

55:15 74:12

74:13 80:15

80:25 81:21

83:3 83:7

83:22

85:8 87:9

92:19 123:6

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175:6

194:12

217:8 217:9

critical

28:24

cross 20:10

21:8

103:1

131:12

crossexamination

12:24 21:24

22:2 155:13

156:19

cross-examine

156:15

cues 8:20

cum 125:10

current 33:12

108:23

124:4 124:5

146:4

153:13

157:4

177:23

181:25

229:8

229:22

230:7

231:23

232:4

currently

39:25

153:10

159:23

curriculum

215:15

cut-and-paste

213:6

D

D-1 25:1 25:4

173:7

173:11

173:12

174:4 174:9

174:12

194:9

194:11

213:3 213:3

213:4 217:3

217:3

241:16

241:18

241:19

241:20

D-10 24:9

206:9

208:12

208:22

209:3 209:6

209:15

209:17

210:7 210:7

210:8

D-11 209:20

209:21

210:7

211:16

211:19

211:20

212:4

D-12 22:24

23:8

212:9

212:10

212:19

D-2 161:4

161:6 161:7

161:17

D-3 161:1

161:20

161:20

161:21

161:23

162:2 162:5

162:6 201:5

201:8

218:23

218:24

D-4 100:20

103:11

103:11

104:14

104:17

105:5

105:11

107:4

110:24

111:2

115:14

138:8

164:11

D-5 147:25

148:17

148:21

148:25

190:6 190:7

190:8

190:16

190:19

190:20

D-6 198:1

198:3

198:11

D-7 25:5

198:14

198:16

198:19

198:23

D-8 23:7

23:23

25:2

199:1 199:2

199:4 205:9

207:5

207:15

D-9 207:18

207:19

208:1

208:20

daily 159:15

data 24:4

24:8

24:16 24:16

26:25

27:4 27:5

28:17 28:19

29:14 32:16

32:18 33:19

50:9 55:7

55:15

70:3

73:15 73:23

74:1 74:5

74:7 74:9

74:19 74:22

75:13 75:18

75:21 75:24

76:13 76:16

81:24

82:2

82:17 82:19

83:4

83:11 83:20

83:25

84:6

84:17 84:23

84:25

86:6

86:11 86:13

86:21 86:22

86:25 87:24

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88:2 88:4

88:5 88:6

88:10 88:11

88:12

119:20

121:8

121:19

123:25

124:1 124:5

124:7

124:25

125:2

129:16

129:19

137:1

138:21

147:12

151:4

151:21

151:24

152:1 152:6

152:14

152:20

152:22

153:2 153:6

153:17

153:17

153:18

165:4

166:16

167:16

170:19

171:1 171:4

174:14

178:5

178:11

178:12

179:19

182:1

182:13

185:19

186:3 186:5

186:9

186:10

186:15

186:22

187:11

187:11

187:14

187:17

187:18

187:18

187:25

188:4 188:6

188:10

190:1 190:3

190:4

191:21

193:17

193:19

195:8

196:10

196:13

200:9

200:10

200:12

202:25

203:1 203:1

203:3 203:7

206:4

206:10

206:19

206:25

207:7 208:8

208:11

208:11

208:11

208:23

208:23

209:1 210:8

210:8

210:25

211:2

211:13

211:24

212:1

217:15

217:16

217:20

217:21

217:25

218:16

218:18

220:12

220:16

221:22

222:6

222:10

224:2 224:4

224:11

229:12

231:6 238:1

238:8

239:22

242:22

242:24

243:20

244:25

database

47:11

datagathering

33:11

date 4:13

5:21

25:17

27:3 27:3

27:22 65:20

66:4

73:17

77:9

77:11 78:18

78:25 79:15

80:8 121:10

122:11

137:22

138:5

138:11

146:10

165:10

166:17

166:17

167:8

170:12

199:11

207:25

208:5 208:6

208:9 210:6

219:17

219:22

238:5

dated 228:13

dates 146:3

183:14

204:17

dawn 21:13

day 27:22

28:2 28:8

139:4 162:8

162:23

165:10

184:5 184:7

184:13

185:10

187:5 187:7

187:8

189:20

194:6

201:14

246:10

days 9:7

131:8 134:8

135:2 155:6

184:10

184:12

184:16

184:19

184:20

184:22

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184:22

185:2 185:4

185:8 185:9

185:10

185:13

187:8 187:9

192:5

192:11

194:3

195:15

195:19

195:21

195:22

195:23

195:25

196:6

225:22

deadlines 6:4

deal 37:7

148:6

dealing

147:23

deals 30:14

Dean 35:8

35:14

death 155:7

December

184:8

184:11

184:24

184:25

184:25

decide

154:6 163:8

182:9

236:14

decided 24:14

109:18

127:16

205:23

205:25

deciding

236:15

decision

14:17 19:10

24:3 81:2

85:10 115:5

119:6 121:8

122:15

123:17

125:2 127:4

127:8 128:1

128:12

128:21

128:23

129:9

138:10

138:14

139:18

170:14

171:12

177:3 177:6

182:14

185:17

190:2 195:4

203:4 203:5

203:16

204:2

205:25

207:21

207:25

208:3 208:5

208:16

212:15

217:19

219:9

220:16

222:9 223:8

235:17

236:5

243:10

decisionmaking

166:16

decisions

73:15 73:24

74:2

74:22 75:22

76:17

118:23

119:2

119:20

121:19

153:11

166:18

172:24

180:16

200:20

deem 114:18

128:12

deemed 97:5

97:7

97:10 159:9

defect 131:25

132:5

200:21

200:22

204:4

defensible

180:6

defer 24:22

24:25

121:10

122:25

123:18

127:16

130:1

217:19

219:22

228:14

236:5

deferred

123:25

deferring

122:4 123:1

deficient

205:1

define

216:5

216:14

225:3

defined

55:6 176:5

defines

225:10

definite

137:14

definition

29:9 58:2

88:11

130:11

201:20

degree 157:24

delay 203:21

delayed

202:22

203:23

deliberative

8:10

deliver

125:11

216:9

delivered

104:10

104:10

demonstrate

29:1

80:17

174:17

175:8

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175:21

demonstrated

202:25

demonstrating

239:9

239:16

denied 6:11

6:12 6:13

Department

46:10 47:12

65:8 107:18

163:12

163:20

166:15

219:3 219:5

depending

104:11

104:21

depends 32:24

describe 8:25

176:15

196:25

description

220:14

designation

131:16

designed

215:11

221:2

desires 151:2

determination

6:8 6:10

24:7

29:11

55:4 74:3

81:25

82:3 83:5

84:18 84:24

86:14 86:22

107:9

113:20

114:10

122:4 122:5

122:11

122:25

123:2

123:18

124:15

147:14

147:15

147:15

147:16

150:20

150:22

151:3 151:5

162:8

162:22

167:2

168:23

169:6

169:24

170:6

177:25

178:6

179:14

180:17

182:10

182:12

186:19

187:12

191:17

199:25

200:4

201:25

202:4 202:5

202:22

204:3 204:8

206:25

222:24

223:18

233:10

233:13

234:2 234:5

234:10

234:18

234:22

239:23

244:20

244:25

determination

s 54:2

54:15

55:8

165:5 173:2

determine

49:20 61:13

73:17

74:7 77:9

77:12 78:18

79:1 80:8

123:22

126:3 138:6

145:23

145:24

146:19

150:7

165:17

165:22

166:2

167:17

168:6

168:12

169:22

201:15

211:1

214:20

223:11

226:11

241:17

determined

50:8

96:24 124:3

138:3 138:5

146:3 148:9

153:10

165:10

165:11

166:17

169:16

172:1 172:2

178:6

181:25

193:20

222:19

determines

59:13

60:8 171:15

214:2

determining

23:15 59:20

74:12

171:17

172:18

172:20

217:8

develop 14:15

74:12 201:9

217:8

237:19

developed

29:7

29:13

126:16

152:3

161:21

162:11

218:8 219:3

219:10

225:23

228:12

development

6:18 7:6

14:12 61:12

64:19 70:24

71:11

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79:6

79:12

116:10

129:2

177:19

180:16

191:2

223:16

234:13

238:24

dialogue

93:12

119:17

169:2

190:14

DIBELS 87:24

D-I-B-E-L-S

87:24

dictated

33:11

difference

235:24

different

27:3 29:7

33:15

35:9

104:1 104:4

104:22

107:23

111:22

133:14

172:25

173:1 224:8

225:25

226:2 226:6

226:8

226:14

differently

108:6

115:22

173:4

difficult

131:10

difficulties

228:22

difficulty

125:6

direct

12:25

13:1 15:5

20:7

20:13

21:5 21:9

21:17

22:2

39:21 40:21

40:22

73:3

112:1 112:3

112:23

131:15

132:19

134:20

189:23

235:10

directing

157:15

direction

86:5 144:14

directly 21:7

21:10 24:18

43:7

47:24 48:12

49:14 49:22

51:1 53:4

53:21

56:1 56:5

57:3 58:6

59:2 62:6

64:9 64:24

68:2

68:12 68:23

75:6 79:4

79:8

79:10 80:19

94:7 106:24

118:12

202:6

202:23

203:9

221:17

224:2 224:3

225:20

director

5:2 39:25

56:6

66:24 113:1

157:8

158:17

172:9 180:6

210:11

230:14

244:19

244:24

Disabilities

10:5 10:7

disability

53:14

215:13

215:17

disabling

159:22

disagree

92:20

130:12

147:14

202:7

disagreed

191:20

233:22

disagreeing

170:23

170:25

disagreement

113:8

114:23

115:4

127:21

130:7

150:21

152:18

152:22

167:6

171:11

236:17

discard

222:14

discounting

115:15

discovery 6:7

142:6

144:10

discrepancies

103:1

discrepant

102:23

discretion

63:14

discuss 31:10

116:6

116:23

116:24

120:15

120:23

122:15

125:16

141:19

141:20

141:24

141:24

141:25

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142:12

145:16

146:1

146:14

164:24

165:18

167:5

167:18

168:21

175:13

191:4

191:12

203:18

223:7

discussed

29:14 62:14

108:24

109:1

114:22

116:3

122:18

125:3

130:21

135:23

136:25

137:8

137:11

140:15

146:17

146:18

146:20

147:3 147:5

150:8

150:12

150:17

152:13

152:15

152:16

152:17

167:3

190:13

192:1 222:7

222:18

225:21

discusses

71:6 73:11

discussing

129:20

151:10

200:10

discussion

7:2 17:10

62:12

101:15

107:13

109:8

109:16

109:24

115:25

116:13

116:16

117:4

118:15

119:15

121:25

122:21

127:16

128:3 130:1

138:8 138:9

138:13

139:5 147:7

149:2 150:4

150:10

151:25

165:2 165:3

165:12

166:10

167:21

169:14

191:15

191:16

203:15

218:23

222:11

222:17

222:21

222:23

223:8

discussions

164:9

disprove

187:18

dispute 114:3

201:23

disputes

113:18

114:6 115:4

district 4:12

4:25 5:2

6:19 7:2

7:5 10:2

10:14 12:22

13:21 17:16

19:7

21:16 22:17

22:19

24:6

24:14

25:4

26:13 27:20

28:6 29:4

29:6 31:1

31:6

31:12

32:5 33:5

33:7 34:1

34:4 35:9

35:10 35:19

36:18 36:21

37:3

39:24

40:8

40:10 41:23

45:10 45:18

45:25 50:25

58:13 58:22

60:4

62:18 66:24

73:14 73:14

73:22 75:21

76:16

86:8

91:23

93:3

113:9

113:10

113:12

113:14

113:19

113:23

114:2 114:9

119:14

121:5 121:7

121:16

121:17

123:3 123:4

123:21

126:7

130:21

131:17

132:18

134:9

135:23

143:7

147:13

148:7

150:20

151:3 151:3

152:19

154:2 154:3

154:17

154:25

157:9

158:10

158:12

159:3

159:10

159:12

160:4 160:8

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160:13

163:12

165:4

167:14

169:4 169:7

171:9

171:10

171:14

172:3 173:9

173:14

175:18

175:19

177:21

178:4

178:16

178:16

178:19

178:22

179:1 179:4

179:11

180:6

182:25

186:25

187:10

187:13

187:24

191:8

191:19

193:16

194:22

196:17

196:21

197:6

197:20

200:2 201:9

201:24

202:21

203:8

205:23

206:21

208:9

216:18

219:1 220:6

220:8 220:8

223:4 224:4

230:5 231:2

231:7 232:8

232:19

235:17

districts

31:11 74:11

122:11

166:12

217:7

District's

20:7 20:8

23:7 25:8

29:22

53:2

69:10 71:25

100:20

101:17

103:7

103:10

104:13

105:5

105:11

107:4 123:6

161:17

162:2 174:1

174:9

190:20

198:11

198:23

207:15

208:20

209:7

209:17

211:16

212:19

217:3

District-wide

157:10

184:21

document

11:24

29:8

31:23

32:1 33:2

34:6 41:9

41:11 41:16

41:17 41:23

42:8 42:9

42:22 43:12

44:9 45:3

45:6 45:9

45:10 45:16

45:24

46:9

46:13

48:7 50:7

51:7

56:21

58:9

58:12 65:14

65:17 65:17

65:19 65:22

66:2 66:6

66:6 67:3

67:7 67:8

68:17 74:10

80:16

86:1 87:6

88:25

89:1 89:6

89:7

92:21 92:25

100:13

100:17

100:18

100:19

100:23

101:5 101:5

101:17

102:9

102:13

103:15

103:16

103:19

104:2

104:16

108:21

108:24

109:23

110:15

110:17

110:21

119:10

138:13

141:13

141:15

143:1 143:5

143:25

144:12

144:19

145:3 146:5

147:24

173:8 178:3

201:20

202:1

207:24

210:16

210:19

221:7 228:2

229:1

230:18

230:19

237:16

documentation

136:19

139:11

193:14

documented

74:15 74:15

81:2

85:10 87:19

95:6

192:9

217:11

217:11

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244:25

documents

5:25 23:1

23:4

23:23

24:5

25:23

26:6

27:13 27:22

29:19 29:21

30:1

34:18 46:22

47:1 47:4

104:1 125:7

142:21

144:22

173:25

178:15

188:5

188:17

197:20

197:22

197:24

200:7

203:19

203:20

205:6 206:9

220:7

220:12

231:17

document's

102:14

done 8:11

43:21 79:16

97:1

132:8

141:19

173:3 189:2

193:8 245:4

door 7:21 8:5

doors 245:19

Dorothy 11:22

12:9

16:13

92:7

149:6

149:13

199:8

Doug 11:21

12:9

16:11 17:14

90:15 149:7

DP 4:12

Dr 90:17

draft 224:4

238:19

drafted

50:6 219:23

224:7

238:12

238:14

drafting

122:24

dramatic

174:25

dramatically

226:2

drives

225:6 225:9

dropping

232:4

DSD 91:22

dual 13:9

due 6:15

25:16 27:22

36:19 135:1

137:1

170:14

202:19

204:21

due-process

4:10

duly 39:19

duplicate

30:15

during 6:17

14:1

36:25

37:6

74:21 90:19

109:2

112:22

125:4 125:5

126:19

159:16

160:13

160:19

164:15

166:7

166:19

170:21

177:24

180:8

180:10

181:6

184:18

185:2

185:13

190:14

191:23

196:1

239:19

E

Eagle 35:10

ear 8:4

earlier 46:24

57:10

81:6

81:22 81:24

89:22 128:5

137:17

155:24

218:22

225:13

232:9

232:14

245:22

easier 14:2

81:13

ed 41:13

41:14

66:9

66:24 89:19

89:20 175:2

175:3

175:20

215:14

244:19

244:24

Edmark

26:25

27:3 27:5

educated

232:6

educating

180:1

education

10:4

46:15 52:14

52:21

53:7

53:13

56:7 59:5

65:9

67:25

107:18

111:6 112:5

112:12

112:15

124:16

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125:12

125:24

126:3

141:16

157:9

157:11

157:22

157:25

158:2 158:3

158:9

158:17

162:16

163:12

163:20

164:5

166:15

173:13

173:14

174:2 180:5

191:1 198:4

204:6

210:11

210:15

212:11

218:7 219:3

219:6 221:3

221:15

221:23

222:21

227:5

educational

117:15

158:25

180:22

181:20

215:16

216:5

216:14

221:1

222:12

225:3

225:10

educationrelated

52:6

Education's

46:11 47:13

65:8

educator

175:17

educators

242:2

effect

132:6

135:25

177:23

180:25

226:20

efficient

34:17 36:9

effort

159:7

215:22

efforts

178:18

178:22

eight 112:2

112:7 112:8

112:10

112:11

112:14

112:16

187:8 194:5

194:16

eight-week

194:16

EIP 244:12

either

13:15 13:20

15:5

22:13 32:15

33:15 34:21

35:15

39:7

56:12 97:22

131:21

134:8

178:16

193:15

219:14

elementary

158:15

elements

36:23

37:1

58:21 78:13

eligibility

89:13 89:17

90:11 92:12

93:9

94:16 126:4

127:17

139:19

139:20

146:18

146:19

146:21

146:24

146:25

147:3 147:5

162:7 162:8

162:14

162:16

162:22

207:22

232:24

232:25

233:5

238:25

eligible 50:5

127:4 218:7

eloping 193:4

eloquently

118:4

118:12

else 5:8 25:7

26:15 90:16

91:8 108:24

149:10

154:4

157:15

204:10

227:14

246:5

Ely 11:21

11:21

12:9

16:11 16:11

16:12 16:16

16:20 16:21

16:23

17:1

17:14 17:15

17:16 17:20

90:15 149:7

email 35:8

emails 143:19

143:19

embedded

61:16 79:2

Emily

105:17

105:19

144:17

emotional

222:13

emphasis

225:24

employee 35:8

91:22 91:23

employees

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46:20 90:21

90:23

91:1

91:19

130:21

empty 159:11

enable 116:14

215:13

encompass

87:5

engage 218:16

engaging

193:6

enroll 160:3

enrolling

179:6

enrollment

35:12

ensuing

119:16

ensure

74:23

173:21

ensuring 86:7

157:12

218:19

entered 174:8

entertained

139:25

entire 66:9

108:21

108:23

109:16

115:16

119:1

165:25

234:16

240:5

243:17

entirety 93:4

101:6

entitled

194:12

entries

165:15

166:22

entry 165:16

enumerated

62:4

environment

229:10

environmental

240:9

E-r-i-c-k-se-n 91:9

Erickson

18:11 18:19

21:9 91:3

91:4 91:9

91:21

92:2

149:6 149:7

err 190:3

escape 229:9

ESD 90:21

90:23

91:1 91:19

especially

134:22

essence 132:3

165:6

essentially

9:11 9:23

131:25

163:25

169:12

185:23

186:12

187:10

199:25

established

170:4

188:21

establishing

159:6

188:20

estimate

10:20

estimator

133:3

ESY 6:24

7:2 24:4

24:7

24:16 28:17

29:11

31:2 31:7

32:16 33:11

33:14 35:13

35:15

43:6

44:14 44:23

45:19 47:23

48:11

49:9

49:13 49:21

51:19

52:2 52:5

52:13

53:3 53:5

53:12 53:20

55:3 55:7

55:12

56:4 58:5

59:1 59:4

59:14

60:8 61:13

62:5 64:8

64:23

65:3

65:24 66:18

68:3

68:10 68:16

68:22

69:4

69:11 69:13

69:17 69:18

69:20 70:12

70:16 70:18

70:23

71:7

71:10

72:1 72:3

72:11 72:12

72:14 73:12

73:18

74:3

74:20

77:9

77:12 78:18

79:1

79:13

80:9

80:15 80:25

81:22 81:25

82:3 83:4

83:5 84:7

84:18 84:24

85:8

86:10 86:11

86:14 86:21

86:22 86:24

87:23

88:4

88:10 88:20

89:8 89:8

89:10 89:17

90:3

90:10 92:12

92:16

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93:8 94:6

94:10 94:16

95:5

95:21

96:2 96:6

96:18 96:23

97:3 97:6

97:8 97:8

98:15 98:22

99:11

108:24

109:1

109:16

112:22

116:3 116:6

116:11

118:15

119:6

120:15

120:23

121:6

121:19

121:25

122:5

122:12

122:15

122:18

122:23

122:25

123:2

123:23

124:3

124:15

124:22

124:22

124:24

125:16

126:18

126:20

126:25

127:4 127:5

127:8

128:11

130:20

135:22

136:25

137:9

137:12

137:18

138:6 139:4

139:19

139:20

139:24

141:21

141:25

142:13

145:16

145:23

145:25

146:1 146:2

146:14

146:17

146:22

146:23

146:25

147:3 147:5

147:8 150:7

150:8 150:8

150:10

150:11

150:17

151:10

151:25

152:12

152:14

153:9

153:11

153:11

159:15

160:13

164:5

164:10

164:24

165:5

165:18

165:22

166:2

166:16

167:2 167:5

167:8

167:15

167:18

167:22

168:21

169:6

169:14

170:6

171:15

171:17

172:6

172:19

172:20

173:1

173:18

173:21

175:7 176:1

177:3 177:6

177:16

177:21

178:1 178:8

179:12

179:15

180:10

182:9 188:1

191:6 191:9

191:12

191:17

192:10

192:22

193:1

193:20

194:12

194:21

199:25

200:4

200:19

201:15

201:18

201:25

202:5

202:22

204:3 204:8

204:24

207:22

208:6 213:9

219:9

219:14

219:23

220:12

220:14

220:17

220:22

220:23

221:2 222:8

222:19

222:22

223:8

225:19

225:20

233:10

233:13

233:19

234:2 234:3

234:5

234:10

234:11

234:17

238:1 239:2

239:3

239:23

239:24

240:1

240:11

240:18

243:12

244:4

244:13

244:20

244:24

et 101:12

evaluate

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 274 of 335
Hearing - Held On May 13, 2014 NDT Assgn # 018221-1 Page 275

53:24 54:12

evaluating

157:12

evaluation

126:2 126:3

126:8 191:1

232:25

238:4

evaluator

149:8

event 91:7

99:24 226:7

eventually

204:16

everpresent

227:4

everybody

90:14

178:23

everyone 5:20

111:20

245:22

everything

26:15 61:21

92:23

106:14

106:15

141:10

226:7

226:14

evidence

23:15

25:6 29:1

31:8

31:11 32:14

36:5 36:8

36:15 37:22

38:12

43:3 44:6

44:10 50:20

56:21 74:15

74:15

81:2

85:10 87:20

101:1

101:12

101:20

105:12

129:22

148:16

148:23

161:18

162:3

174:10

190:21

195:12

198:12

198:24

199:24

201:5

207:16

208:21

209:18

211:17

212:20

217:11

217:11

227:9 229:3

evidenced

143:18

evident

176:10

evidentiary

44:12

evidently

28:22

exact 114:6

exactly 45:17

110:13

119:19

159:25

166:9 171:4

205:4

examination

20:11 39:21

51:7

103:2

131:13

189:23

197:15

224:25

241:12

examined

39:19

example

24:8 178:10

180:7

181:18

194:15

218:6 218:9

228:16

examples 88:5

Excel 104:10

except 44:13

exception

37:22 90:15

129:25

exclude

5:14 16:3

24:23 32:22

44:5 205:6

excluded 16:6

31:15 44:22

45:12

excluding

205:9

exclusion

205:12

exclusive

98:19 99:11

exclusively

28:17

excuse 8:16

17:6

17:17 19:13

19:20 25:11

34:9

45:22 53:23

54:12 55:14

59:18 66:10

185:4

excused 16:16

18:13 19:22

exhibit

11:5 11:8

23:7

25:13

26:6

26:22 26:24

27:25 30:13

30:14 30:24

31:11 31:14

35:2 35:4

35:5 35:7

36:1 36:2

36:4

37:13 37:14

38:8

40:25

43:2

43:15 44:17

44:25

45:5

46:19

47:9

47:22

48:9 52:1

56:17 56:17

65:4

65:23 67:10

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 275 of 335
Hearing - Held On May 13, 2014 NDT Assgn # 018221-1 Page 276

67:23

68:4

68:17 68:21

69:1

69:15

71:4 72:9

73:12 74:10

77:6 81:1

83:4 86:4

95:1 95:4

96:8

99:20 99:22

100:20

103:7

103:11

103:22

103:23

104:13

105:11

107:4 110:8

110:9

110:12

145:8

145:18

148:15

148:22

148:25

161:1 161:4

161:12

161:17

162:2

164:11

173:7

173:15

173:24

174:4 174:9

183:3

183:22

190:6

190:16

190:20

194:9 198:1

198:6

198:11

198:14

198:23

199:1 199:9

201:4 201:5

205:9 207:5

207:15

207:18

207:19

208:20

209:17

210:21

211:16

212:17

212:19

213:1 213:2

213:3

213:23

217:1 217:3

217:3

227:15

228:15

229:2

241:14

exhibits

22:12 22:17

22:22

25:1 25:4

25:8 25:9

25:14 26:12

26:18 27:23

28:2

28:12 29:15

29:16

30:7 30:7

36:7

37:21

38:1

38:10 38:11

66:10 100:2

141:6 143:7

154:7

206:14

existed

48:5 66:3

151:21

151:24

152:6

152:12

existence

41:16 65:17

65:22 66:14

66:19 67:20

68:5

existing 43:8

exists 242:22

242:24

expect

10:21

12:1

50:12

232:10

expectations

189:3

expecting

145:15

expenditures

113:22

experience

175:17

180:20

237:24

experiences

175:19

223:2

expert

48:23

238:22

240:21

experts 223:4

238:22

explain

14:4

54:22 85:24

113:4

119:13

128:4

168:24

193:17

211:4

explained

28:16 150:4

explanation

8:23

expressed

221:17

extended 6:20

41:13

48:9

49:24

50:3 52:5

53:6

53:16

57:3

57:11

58:2 58:3

59:7 74:1

74:13 80:16

83:3 85:5

85:21 107:5

107:9

108:19

115:16

116:1

120:10

149:1 150:3

159:3 159:6

160:16

164:20

169:24

173:19

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179:20

180:8

213:25

217:9

219:12

228:17

extended-year

7:3

extending

48:17 202:8

extensive

172:5

extensively

164:6

extent

14:11 45:24

61:1

147:7

150:10

155:11

206:15

207:24

extraneous

8:1

eye 155:23

F

face 119:10

119:11

230:11

facilitate

14:12 131:6

132:13

facilitated

163:18

234:14

facilitator

107:18

107:25

108:2 108:4

108:5

109:18

109:19

115:15

116:9

116:12

116:13

116:15

116:19

116:23

117:9

117:10

117:11

117:14

117:17

117:18

117:19

117:21

117:24

117:25

118:10

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facilitator's

116:6

fact 13:15

23:17

51:8

57:15

104:19

126:23

137:2

137:11

164:24

165:24

166:22

170:10

170:17

173:25

177:6

178:18

179:7

180:24

181:2

182:18

186:19

186:24

188:12

190:10

191:12

202:13

203:1 203:6

203:15

208:15

210:15

211:25

219:2

219:12

219:19

219:20

224:7

225:24

227:4

238:10

factor 28:24

factors 78:13

108:16

188:11

240:9

facts 7:14

7:15 33:25

factual 116:7

failed 6:19

failure

6:24 37:1

132:6

133:13

failures

203:22

fair 14:12

14:15

42:7

50:22 82:11

150:12

172:7

183:16

187:24

188:2

fairly 135:6

fall 52:6

194:22

202:12

familiar

42:15 42:18

42:20

57:7 57:9

59:23 78:23

117:15

164:4

210:14

210:19

225:17

230:20

FAPE 10:4

36:21

37:4

52:17 52:19

59:10 59:14

125:16

132:6

176:13

200:23

214:4

215:25

216:9

216:20

221:11

fashion

15:8 40:16

fast 8:11

115:19

225:14

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 277 of 335
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faster

62:15

136:11

favor 170:16

fax 11:10

faxing 103:21

FBA 141:19

141:24

142:11

145:21

228:10

240:7

241:23

244:7 244:9

244:12

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federal

6:22 6:23

7:7 13:21

42:2 42:4

42:5

42:12 42:13

42:19 56:18

57:1

57:12 57:13

57:16 57:19

57:22 58:21

59:17 59:24

60:7

60:10 60:12

60:19 61:11

62:19 64:18

64:21 70:22

78:10

79:9

79:11 80:12

80:21 84:20

84:22 87:21

96:5 114:19

115:9 123:5

129:3

136:15

136:21

138:17

213:22

214:7 220:1

feedback

166:6

feel 49:16

56:11 56:11

57:15 68:21

73:4 87:7

152:21

182:10

225:6

feeling 17:4

fell 194:24

felt 24:6

40:15 80:11

114:2 165:4

fewer 152:3

fidelity

185:18

188:9 190:1

field 22:5

file 6:6

170:14

210:15

210:17

filed 6:5

6:16 16:1

fill 157:1

final 13:17

13:23

108:16

138:7

138:12

findings

13:15

finds 77:23

97:20

fine 14:9

18:23 22:13

36:11 44:12

44:21

135:20

136:10

finish 70:9

90:5 242:8

finished

134:20

140:9 156:5

finishes 80:7

first 9:5

12:4 12:7

12:19 27:19

28:9

30:12 37:11

38:22

39:1

39:19

45:3

58:20 61:20

61:21 67:23

103:14

107:15

108:9

149:16

150:4 153:5

160:3 160:5

171:15

183:8 184:5

184:7

185:10

187:5 187:7

203:12

204:20

205:17

229:5

230:24

231:24

fit 96:13

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five 18:22

34:12 55:17

112:7 194:5

five-minute

79:20

flaws

202:13

202:14

floor 232:4

flopping

193:4

flow 134:18

187:19

flowing 170:3

focus

131:23

164:19

173:7

208:25

focused 86:6

focusing

171:14

followup 85:4

follow-up

82:24

95:2

96:25

193:12

221:8

foreseen 37:7

forever 155:5

forget

12:14 13:12

114:6

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 278 of 335
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form 67:20

102:24

212:11

219:18

formal 21:25

formality

38:3 183:6

format 45:11

formed 129:18

forms

192:22

219:1 219:2

219:4

219:19

forth 23:24

183:14

194:13

forward

157:23

160:23

164:16

193:22

205:9 223:4

237:22

foundation

23:5 154:14

210:10

211:5 228:7

foundational

179:23

220:15

frame 183:24

framing

195:17

free 10:3

52:20 73:4

frequently

12:14

112:21

131:5

Friday

25:14

184:24

front 43:12

60:5

136:6 138:2

142:19

161:2

188:24

196:12

froze 184:19

full 14:12

14:15

178:19

function

215:19

215:21

functional

191:1

215:11

227:24

228:11

232:23

237:20

fundamental

182:6

future 9:21

191:3

G

gain 177:13

182:13

217:20

gaining 180:2

gaps 157:2

gather 30:25

187:14

190:4

gathered

83:11 153:2

202:25

gathering

24:15 33:19

gauge 238:7

gears

158:21

160:22

197:11

212:22

general

9:11 13:5

33:4

36:18

37:1 43:5

46:13 47:23

49:12 49:20

51:6

51:11 51:21

52:1 53:1

53:2 56:3

56:8

56:13 57:10

58:5

58:13

62:4

62:15

63:4 64:7

64:25 68:22

69:3

69:14 69:15

69:25

71:1 71:3

72:8 72:9

73:9

73:12 73:25

75:15 75:20

76:11 76:14

77:5 77:6

80:6

92:18 123:6

131:15

131:15

131:21

132:16

150:15

158:3 160:7

179:17

181:17

188:16

192:7 192:8

192:17

215:14

228:18

231:13

237:14

242:9

generalized

28:19 164:4

generally

21:15

32:5

35:14

38:7

62:21

171:15

172:23

generate

238:8

generated

210:16

226:15

237:16

238:6

genesis

237:15

Gentili 169:1

GentiliCase 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 279 of 335
Hearing - Held On May 13, 2014 NDT Assgn # 018221-1 Page 280

Armbrust

163:5 166:9

GentiliArmbrust's

166:6

gentleman

16:10

germane 203:9

237:25

239:6

gets 8:4 10:8

94:4

getting 85:20

95:12 98:15

134:25

135:18

163:21

177:12

208:17

given 7:17

30:20 37:21

102:21

117:21

118:17

134:22

159:20

200:11

203:7

230:13

241:3

giving

154:2 154:3

goal 53:4

58:7 59:2

62:6

64:10 68:24

80:19

215:23

221:1 221:9

221:13

221:24

226:21

226:21

239:16

239:18

239:18

goals 28:15

28:18

29:7

33:15 33:21

43:7

47:25 48:13

49:14 49:22

50:16

51:2

51:20

52:3

52:10 53:22

53:25 54:14

55:2 55:6

55:25

56:1 56:5

64:24 73:18

94:7

94:11 94:13

94:17 152:5

180:16

181:7

181:24

201:9 213:7

213:8 215:8

215:10

215:11

215:19

215:21

216:4 216:7

216:13

221:1 223:2

223:13

223:16

223:17

224:8 224:8

224:16

224:17

225:2 225:6

225:10

226:1 238:3

238:24

gone 163:13

gotten

133:8 206:4

218:4

grade 214:21

graduated

157:24

granted

6:11 16:5

Grants 4:11

29:6

66:24 91:23

141:20

141:24

142:12

158:11

158:17

159:2 171:5

175:18

181:13

182:25

219:1 224:3

232:19

graph 197:3

great 18:9

206:6

greatly

188:22

grey 30:21

grief 136:1

grounds 28:1

growing 180:2

growth 177:14

227:7

232:16

239:10

guess 18:18

33:1

73:14 84:14

87:20 95:17

96:19 148:9

163:13

180:4

185:17

228:14

230:12

231:11

236:20

guessing

183:15

guidance

41:12

44:1

44:14 44:23

46:22

48:3

49:12 53:23

54:11 57:14

57:23 58:14

58:21 58:24

59:22

60:4 65:3

66:9

66:18

68:2

68:10 68:12

68:16 68:20

68:21 73:20

80:23 88:19

88:25

89:5 89:6

173:12

175:13

209:1 213:6

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 280 of 335
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guide 180:17

guideline

52:2 53:2

53:2 56:8

58:5 64:8

68:22

69:3 71:3

88:17 88:18

99:8

guidelines

42:12 42:13

43:5

45:19 47:23

49:20 51:21

56:4

56:14 57:11

62:4

64:25 65:24

69:14 69:16

69:25

71:2 72:8

72:10 73:10

73:13

74:1

75:16 75:20

76:11 76:14

77:5 77:7

80:7

85:22 85:23

85:24

86:4 86:9

87:5

87:10 87:23

92:19 92:19

93:8 94:4

94:23 96:17

96:22 121:6

121:16

123:6 123:7

194:13

194:22

200:8

guides 101:12

guiding 89:1

H

half 184:15

185:4

185:15

hall 7:19

hallway 134:6

hand 26:8

100:1 183:7

183:21

199:18

225:12

225:12

handbook

41:13 66:10

89:19

173:13

handdeliver

144:24

handed 61:8

143:1

handle 8:2

22:11 29:24

160:8

hands 8:24

handwritten

199:5 199:6

happen 8:18

9:22

50:12

169:16

243:16

happened 7:23

133:12

137:19

159:12

165:9

184:17

203:25

204:12

204:15

204:18

205:5

205:11

205:19

happens

142:24

199:17

hard 72:19

133:4

haste 160:17

haven't

134:19

having 7:13

21:1 21:2

39:19 62:14

76:25

108:11

119:8 137:6

188:18

215:18

220:6 239:4

240:17

242:17

Hawaii 29:4

125:10

126:7

126:16

126:21

137:3

138:19

159:8

160:15

160:20

177:22

178:3

178:10

178:15

178:19

178:25

180:25

181:11

192:9

193:16

222:15

224:9

224:12

226:1

229:13

head 149:9

heads 8:20

health 189:19

hear 8:12

33:23

75:3 75:5

121:21

122:7

170:20

200:9

heard 72:23

73:7

104:3 163:2

170:11

188:4

200:24

202:10

204:13

215:18

216:12

233:24

233:25

243:18

hearing 4:1

4:10 4:13

5:11 5:19

6:3 6:9

6:14 6:14

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6:16

13:16

14:1

21:25 22:13

24:2 26:5

26:13

28:2 28:7

28:8 31:5

36:20 36:25

37:2 37:6

150:25

151:1

202:20

205:15

Hearings

4:8 13:14

held 4:2 5:24

6:1 17:10

62:12

141:19

146:7

196:13

196:24

202:15

222:21

222:23

222:24

he'll 245:8

help 14:3

14:6

14:11 121:8

126:6

153:24

helpful

131:21

helps

119:23

155:13

hence 54:1

54:14 97:11

238:3

238:24

he's 16:6

38:7

83:13

128:18

167:4

183:10

189:1 189:2

202:8 205:4

210:5

227:18

227:19

235:19

243:5

244:11

245:6

high 141:21

141:25

142:13

158:14

191:5

highlighted

30:23 31:19

highlighting

30:20 30:22

100:17

hiring 157:11

historical

125:25

126:24

137:1

179:19

182:1

229:12

237:20

history 32:15

32:18

33:8

33:10

117:15

124:21

157:18

229:7

231:19

231:21

232:3 243:9

hold 18:24

19:19 39:23

holding 13:25

187:25

207:2

holiday

182:21

182:21

hone 164:9

honor 23:2

25:11

27:1 27:6

61:4

77:20 84:10

95:7 103:22

110:23

140:22

191:8

Honor's

118:13

hop 212:24

216:23

hopefully

177:12

180:1

hoping 17:2

163:20

hostile

131:17

131:18

hot 7:20

hour 12:3

hours 18:2

House 4:6 4:7

4:24 5:8

7:22 8:6

8:8 8:14

10:25

11:4 11:9

11:12 11:18

11:20

12:4 12:7

12:9

12:11 12:13

12:18 12:21

13:11

14:6 14:8

14:20

15:2

15:14 15:20

15:23 15:25

16:4 16:9

16:12 16:14

16:17

17:4

17:12 17:20

17:25 18:17

19:3 19:5

19:7

19:21

20:1 20:5

20:8

20:17 20:21

20:24 21:11

21:15 21:19

21:22

22:4 22:7

22:14 22:24

23:3 23:9

23:12 23:18

24:21

25:7

25:12 25:15

25:18 25:21

26:1 26:4

26:8

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26:12 26:17

26:20

27:2 27:7

27:11 27:15

29:18 29:24

30:4

30:10 30:15

30:18 31:21

32:3

32:11 33:22

34:3

34:11 34:16

35:6

35:20 35:25

36:3

36:10 37:10

37:15 37:18

38:6

38:13 38:15

38:18 38:25

39:4

39:16

41:3

42:23

43:1

43:15 43:18

43:20 43:24

44:21

45:8

45:21

46:6

48:20 48:24

49:2 49:4

50:21

51:9

51:15 52:23

55:10 55:18

56:19 56:23

60:14 60:17

60:21 60:24

61:5

62:10 62:13

63:7 63:9

63:16 63:21

63:23

64:2 64:5

64:13

66:5

66:12 66:16

67:6 67:9

67:11 67:16

68:5 68:6

69:5 69:8

71:15 71:22

72:19

73:6

74:25

75:2 75:5

75:8

76:19 76:24

77:3

77:21 77:25

78:5

79:18 79:21

80:4

81:12 81:17

82:6

82:10 82:14

82:20 82:23

83:1

83:13 83:16

84:2 84:9

85:4

85:13 86:16

86:18 87:13

87:18 87:22

88:8

88:15 88:22

89:9

89:12

90:5 90:8

91:7

91:11 91:14

91:18 91:25

93:14 93:20

93:23

94:1 95:5

95:8

95:11 95:13

95:19 97:17

98:10 98:13

98:21

99:1

99:16 100:1

100:5 100:9

100:25

101:7

101:10

102:2 102:7

102:12

102:17

102:20

102:25

103:4 103:8

103:13

103:25

104:12

104:16

105:1 105:4

105:10

105:19

105:21

105:22

105:25

106:4

106:24

107:21

108:5

110:10

110:14

110:18

110:24

111:11

111:19

111:23

112:8

113:21

113:25

115:2 115:9

115:18

115:21

115:25

116:5

116:12

116:18

116:22

117:3 117:6

118:6 118:9

118:14

118:20

119:9

119:12

119:24

120:4

120:18

120:21

121:11

121:14

121:20

121:23

122:13

123:11

123:14

123:20

123:24

124:6

124:20

125:3

125:14

125:19

127:9

127:13

127:15

127:19

127:23

128:13

128:18

129:13

129:16

129:20

130:8

130:11

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130:16

130:23

131:4 132:3

133:1 133:4

133:17

133:20

133:23

133:25

135:8

135:12

135:20

136:10

137:24

140:20

140:23

141:1 141:7

142:20

143:5

143:17

143:21

143:25

144:5 144:9

144:18

144:25

145:2 145:5

145:9

146:21

147:1 148:5

148:11

148:14

148:20

149:15

149:19

149:25

150:15

150:17

151:6 152:9

153:16

153:20

153:24

154:2 154:9

154:14

154:20

154:22

155:10

155:17

155:22

156:2 156:6

156:14

156:18

158:4 158:7

161:14

161:16

161:24

162:1

162:20

162:25

167:10

167:13

167:20

168:2 168:7

168:9

168:13

168:19

168:24

169:8

169:19

169:21

170:1

171:22

171:24

172:8

172:13

174:6 174:8

176:8 183:6

183:10

183:19

189:8

189:10

189:15

190:17

190:19

192:1 192:7

192:12

192:15

192:18

193:7

193:10

196:24

197:2 198:8

198:10

198:20

198:22

199:11

199:14

199:21

200:14

201:1 201:6

203:25

205:14

206:1 206:6

206:11

206:15

206:19

206:24

207:5

207:10

207:13

208:3 208:7

208:13

208:18

209:4

209:11

209:15

209:24

210:5

210:12

210:22

211:3

211:12

211:15

212:3 212:6

212:16

212:18

214:24

215:4

216:11

216:18

218:23

220:6

220:18

221:16

221:20

222:6

222:16

223:6

223:19

224:21

227:10

227:13

227:16

227:22

228:6 228:9

228:25

229:4

229:15

229:24

230:13

230:22

231:1 231:4

231:9

231:13

231:16

233:24

234:7 235:6

235:9 236:4

236:24

237:2 237:8

241:9

241:11

242:7 243:4

243:15

243:21

244:1

244:11

244:16

244:21

245:2 245:5

245:8

245:15

245:21

245:24

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246:1 246:3

246:8

Housekeeping

62:13

House's 195:5

hung 10:8

155:6

Hungerford

5:5 18:10

245:18

hyphen 163:6

hypothesize

229:9

229:23

230:7 232:5

hypothetical

124:21

239:15

243:4

243:15

I

i-c-t-o-n

91:17

I'd 21:1

40:24 43:15

76:24

79:3 132:24

135:18

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245:8

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246:1 246:3

246:7 246:8

judge's 170:3

Judges 133:5

judgment 74:8

74:17

81:4

85:11

217:13

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242:1

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242:23

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244:3

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Julie

107:17

122:2 122:9

163:5 166:6

166:9

166:11

169:1

July 66:25

160:5 160:6

jump 34:8

193:22

jumping

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justification

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K

Kailua 178:21

178:25

193:16

220:8

kapooie 77:2

key 200:1

kid 186:6

kids 175:1

177:12

Kirby 91:3

91:4

91:21

92:2 149:6

Kirk 5:2 39:3

K-i-r-k 39:3

KIRK 39:18

KK 109:14

150:4

167:14

KK's 109:13

knew 103:21

117:11

163:11

knowledge

43:14

47:7

47:19 62:17

78:1 78:7

108:23

113:7

113:16

113:17

128:6

138:20

141:23

142:2 142:5

144:3 144:6

145:14

146:6

166:12

172:10

186:14

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188:17

214:20

214:24

215:3 223:1

knowledgeable

164:7

known 106:1

Kolb 5:2 12:2

12:20 12:23

16:6 17:5

18:7 20:3

22:8 33:9

33:24 38:13

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60:23

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118:22

135:6 136:6

149:5

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K-o-l-b 39:3

KOLB 39:18

Kolb's 82:5

183:13

L

labeled 26:24

27:2 173:23

182:24

lack 137:1

239:11

244:25

lacking

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laid 23:5

211:5

landed 160:1

language

31:19 50:25

51:2 63:3

large 175:14

last 11:25

25:14

39:1 61:8

65:21

76:5

95:16 95:17

112:17

112:22

134:1 134:7

135:21

143:2 144:1

189:25

232:7

late 26:2

27:21

144:24

later 5:15

18:25

45:4 63:4

73:17

77:9

77:11 78:18

78:25 79:15

80:8 121:10

122:11

130:14

133:11

138:5 155:1

155:12

165:11

166:17

201:18

203:2 223:8

223:12

223:18

latest 20:16

law 4:7

6:24 7:16

7:16 9:9

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58:21 60:12

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132:7

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200:17

220:1

laws 6:22

62:19 86:8

Lawyers 133:5

lay 210:10

layers 236:18

laying 228:6

leads 182:5

Leah 35:8

learning

48:18 49:10

53:17

least 28:6

69:21 70:12

72:15 78:11

79:16 139:7

167:1

170:18

203:17

leave 5:16

16:22

18:5 18:8

79:17 82:16

135:10

189:18

245:10

leaving 16:10

95:16 229:7

Lee 23:13

37:19 42:24

149:7 149:8

202:8

left-hand

107:4

legal 14:8

14:10

28:6

62:23 63:16

200:16

legally 33:10

63:4

length 136:25

185:16

188:11

lengthy 72:20

let's 34:12

39:13 58:14

79:23 90:25

98:10

135:15

135:15

145:19

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173:16

182:15

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level

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levels

124:8

178:22

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238:23

life 155:7

light 237:5

likely 7:14

9:15 19:17

likewise

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limitation

16:21 212:4

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limitations

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limited

13:6

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33:16 137:4

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239:9

line 14:9

36:11 36:16

37:5

75:22 76:17

108:13

171:7 195:3

lines 226:5

list 10:15

10:25

11:5 11:8

11:13 12:15

20:10 20:14

21:12 21:12

25:13

26:6

26:22 91:12

91:13 91:15

149:16

215:6 215:7

listed

20:22 113:1

149:21

160:11

238:15

lists

103:22

214:12

little 11:2

34:8

38:19 62:15

73:1

81:12 93:15

97:12

115:19

115:21

121:11

131:7 134:6

134:12

156:22

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158:21

160:23

166:5

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187:16

190:1

192:19

197:13

212:24

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local 13:20

located

110:20

location

159:9

long 10:9

12:1

41:16

63:9

72:24 74:21

79:23

85:2

195:2 239:9

longer 17:5

192:4

192:10

232:18

lose 134:17

loss 174:16

174:20

174:22

174:23

175:1

213:17

lost 95:12

lot 7:18

11:25

121:14

168:14

185:21

185:23

225:24

240:6

loud 93:10

louder 39:11

low 239:19

lower 215:9

226:9

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Luka 105:17

105:20

105:23

105:25

106:6

144:17

L-u-k-a

105:20

LUKA 106:3

143:7

143:18

lunch 79:25

112:23

131:2 131:6

159:17

M

mail 144:24

mailed 5:19

maintain 43:6

47:24 48:12

48:17 49:13

49:21

51:1

51:19

52:2 53:3

53:21

56:4 58:6

59:1 62:5

64:8

68:23

210:22

221:3

maintaining

53:20

maintenance

49:10 49:25

53:17

176:12

178:7

majority

140:5

manager 144:4

manner 124:24

153:18

March 6:16

6:19 7:4

40:3 89:3

90:2 93:2

143:14

151:21

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marked 56:20

marking

183:22

materials

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matter 4:11

5:23 6:1

9:7 9:17

46:13 57:15

62:13 63:12

69:24

103:24

116:7

131:22

149:15

156:1 160:7

181:17

183:6

237:14

matters 52:10

may 4:3

4:13 5:21

7:24 11:6

13:5

13:19

15:2 15:7

18:19 18:24

19:17 20:13

20:17 24:23

27:10 30:21

34:10

38:8 38:8

38:13

39:8 39:8

45:11 45:12

45:12

46:2 46:3

70:3

70:19 75:13

77:19 78:25

81:2

83:20

84:7

85:10 90:16

91:20 94:12

96:18 96:23

97:4

97:10 97:12

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155:12

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maybe 54:3

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128:6

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135:3

155:23

181:2

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234:23

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mean 11:10

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96:9

96:16 101:1

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238:12

meaning

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meaningful

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means 18:13

52:5

52:14

53:7

53:13

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207:7

222:14

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meant 20:21

21:4 221:13

231:11

measurable

86:11 86:13

87:24

88:5

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215:10

measure

174:13

174:18

measurement

239:7

Medford

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mediate 114:3

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mediation

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mediator

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108:1 150:5

163:9

medications

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meet 58:17

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meeting 23:24

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89:2

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meetings 6:17

7:4 40:3

40:5 40:7

40:11 90:1

90:11 90:18

91:2 93:2

130:18

135:22

139:15

239:1

meets 204:19

member

69:10 71:25

119:18

136:15

139:21

170:22

members

69:3

69:16

70:5

70:17 70:17

72:10 89:10

128:1 171:5

171:8

171:10

memory 77:1

80:10

150:18

150:19

168:15

183:13

mention 137:2

mentioned

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108:11

134:5 134:6

152:25

178:14

213:10

220:9

235:16

middle

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107:14

158:13

194:12

194:24

217:7

mildly 57:9

mind 85:23

117:17

122:8

220:19

mine 13:22

103:7

Mine's 102:19

minimal 130:5

232:16

minimum

12:3 28:5

170:21

203:17

minted 184:13

minute

18:18

103:16

211:20

minutes 18:23

34:12 79:24

100:15

101:24

105:6

105:16

105:18

106:7

106:13

143:14

147:17

147:19

147:20

147:21

147:25

155:18

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245:12

mischaracteri

zes 71:13

83:8

misquoting

225:14

miss 140:21

missed 98:6

missing

139:12

misstates

50:19

82:4 137:22

misstating

83:14

misstep 21:14

Mister

43:18

169:11

mixed 33:22

model 219:2

219:19

moment

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64:13 71:16

98:13 99:21

143:17

157:20

165:13

181:16

202:2

moments 61:19

61:23

114:17

Monday

160:5 160:6

184:11

184:25

monitoring

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month

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139:11

months

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223:25

230:6

230:24

morning 4:6

17:21

189:21

motion 5:14

5:16 5:18

6:6 6:7 6:8

6:10 6:11

6:12

15:21 15:23

15:25

16:5

25:19 25:24

144:14

motions 6:5

203:24

move 14:24

38:16 62:15

140:25

159:2

159:25

160:23

161:20

176:23

217:16

moved 126:15

movement

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moves 36:7

moving 16:2

37:13

71:1

79:23

108:13

223:4

237:22

multiple 70:2

70:4 70:8

70:16 97:14

99:14

178:22

myself 26:9

109:21

118:19

120:11

120:17

135:10

139:11

139:22

149:7

N

narrow

95:23

132:15

132:15

nature 126:24

necessarily

28:14 65:25

106:15

133:9

179:25

181:10

182:1 208:2

239:8

240:18

necessary

15:20

24:6 59:9

59:14 61:14

73:15 73:23

74:2

75:22 75:25

76:1

76:16 76:22

84:18 86:13

152:20

165:4 166:2

170:5

182:11

182:13

200:11

203:7 214:4

216:9

221:10

221:14

necessity

125:16

negative

169:15

neutral

163:20

newly 184:13

nice 245:17

night 11:25

nine 111:5

111:17

111:25

111:25

129:7 187:8

221:25

ninth 194:6

nod 8:20

nodded 54:24

noise 7:25

8:1

nonparticipat

ion 216:3

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nonpreferred

193:5 193:6

non-special

175:3

nonverbal

8:19

nor 210:25

normal 149:16

211:7

normally

11:23

13:6

45:23

47:2 160:19

notations

199:5 199:7

note 27:19

28:21

100:12

106:10

106:12

120:1

130:25

150:4 155:2

168:17

169:22

238:10

noted 12:21

51:20

103:15

150:21

166:14

235:24

notes 100:7

100:21

102:3

103:17

104:6

106:21

120:6 120:7

120:12

128:8 138:2

139:8 163:7

166:8

167:14

190:8

211:20

216:23

236:13

nothing

210:25

notice 5:18

6:22 141:16

142:10

142:16

143:10

143:10

143:13

143:15

143:16

143:23

146:10

148:13

161:7 198:4

198:17

212:10

noticed 73:6

notifying

159:2

noting 151:1

November 6:18

7:3 24:14

29:5

29:13 32:22

33:19

40:3 89:2

90:1 93:2

109:17

117:22

119:6

122:16

125:23

126:14

127:7

127:19

137:1 137:7

137:16

150:21

151:8

160:24

161:11

161:22

162:9

164:14

164:25

166:2 167:1

170:6 177:4

181:1 181:3

184:2

184:14

185:14

199:18

200:1

200:19

201:3 202:3

202:14

204:21

205:25

218:21

222:7

222:17

222:21

223:23

233:3 233:5

233:7 236:3

236:14

nowhere 32:17

50:14

nuance 98:6

nuances

121:15

numerous

112:25

126:9

O

OAKS 214:19

214:25

OAR 47:9

48:22 48:25

49:23 50:14

53:19 53:24

54:4

54:12 55:16

55:24

56:2

65:24 66:18

75:12 78:10

81:5 85:12

OAR-cited

50:24

OARs 42:1

42:9

42:16 43:14

48:9

48:10

51:5

51:11 51:11

51:22 51:25

52:12

53:5

53:11 54:25

56:8

56:14 57:12

62:2

74:11 74:18

75:17 75:24

76:12 77:15

78:8

78:20 78:23

79:3 79:5

80:21 84:11

85:17 85:18

87:21 118:7

171:19

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oath 145:11

object 15:3

15:7 28:1

34:23

38:8

50:18 52:18

97:15 99:13

106:22

114:25

123:8

140:17

148:10

171:21

171:23

171:25

209:12

228:23

230:10

235:1

236:20

242:4 243:1

objected

43:25

objecting

235:6

objection

23:3

23:10

25:2

29:22

30:5

30:11 30:12

31:16 31:23

34:20 35:20

35:23 35:24

36:14 42:24

44:24 52:24

71:17 82:11

83:13 83:23

97:18

100:12

106:25

148:13

198:9

198:20

198:21

199:14

200:15

201:16

207:14

209:5

209:25

210:23

211:11

211:14

212:4

212:17

229:17

229:19

231:10

236:10

236:11

242:8

objections

15:13 22:15

27:12

30:8

36:12 37:19

39:6

148:6

161:14

161:15

161:25

174:6

190:17

190:18

198:8

objective

73:18 77:10

objectives

28:19 33:15

33:21

54:1

54:14

55:6

94:12 94:13

94:18 94:20

122:24

180:16

181:7

181:24

201:10

213:8 213:8

215:19

215:21

216:4 216:7

216:13

221:2 223:2

223:14

225:2 225:7

225:11

226:1 238:3

238:25

obligated

216:19

217:20

219:17

234:12

observations

159:17

obtain

126:6 179:2

217:21

217:25

218:16

218:18

obtaining

125:7

obvious 24:23

obviously

100:18

133:2

201:12

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occasions

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occur 9:17

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occurred

7:9 7:15

23:24 33:19

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211:24

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occurring

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occurs 114:23

229:9

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o'clock 16:23

16:24

October 181:1

ODE 44:1

44:14 44:23

65:2

65:24 66:18

68:2 68:9

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80:23 163:3

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213:6

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ODE-appointed

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ODE's 68:12

offer 31:2

104:3

154:17

161:12

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173:15

174:4

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offered

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38:2

38:12 105:6

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offering

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office 4:8

13:14

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oftentimes

70:3 189:4

Oh 20:23 34:9

43:22 65:15

68:8

103:8

148:12

156:2 185:6

185:6

227:20

okay 5:9 5:25

8:5 8:7 8:8

12:12 12:21

14:5

14:18 14:25

15:12 15:14

19:14

20:2

20:23

22:3 22:6

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22:24 26:21

30:2 30:3

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244:1 245:4

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old 29:3 29:9

226:1

O-n 91:10

91:11

ones 34:23

128:25

one-to-one

112:24

ongoing 240:7

onward 124:15

open 245:19

opened 169:2

open-ended

13:1

operating

29:2

operative

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opinion

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99:10

117:18

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216:1

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opinions

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opportunity

74:23 75:14

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205:2 238:7

opposed

98:3 100:24

123:10

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opposite

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option 132:21

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options

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orally 15:18

oranges

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order 10:12

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24:22 34:22

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orders 13:19

Oregon 4:9

6:22 7:8

13:20

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57:16 57:20

65:8

75:23 76:17

79:9

79:11 84:14

96:1 107:17

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122:4

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Oregon's

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organized

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original

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originally

65:16

origination

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others

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otherwise

38:1 175:21

209:8

outcome

170:15

202:16

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207:1

out-ofstate 160:8

outside

7:24 18:4

31:12 96:11

113:17

overall

222:11

overbroad

52:24

overcomplicate

103:5

overrule

82:10 83:16

106:25

172:8

oversight

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P

p.m 131:2

131:3

189:13

189:14

246:11

pace 134:13

package 66:18

packet

45:18 61:8

page 11:7

27:4

28:22 44:13

44:21 44:22

45:3 61:7

61:8 65:3

68:12 94:25

95:1 95:3

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pages 27:2

101:4 102:8

102:11

104:21

148:2

173:22

227:23

paint 157:7

157:22

217:23

pair 193:1

Pam 90:17

Pamela 238:15

paperclip

100:4

paperwork

196:12

paragraph

44:22 49:23

50:15

53:6 68:3

164:19

168:4

229:13

231:20

232:2

parameters

169:10

paraphrase

9:8 9:9

pardon 58:1

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parent 4:21

4:22 4:23

4:24 5:11

6:2 7:12

9:4 9:5

9:24

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11:1 11:3

11:4 11:7

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parenthesized

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parents 92:20

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Parent's

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parsed 36:24

participate

7:6

participated

6:2

participation

170:20

particular

27:13 32:16

41:17

51:5 124:24

162:15

165:15

180:21

202:2 217:6

particularly

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parties

4:15 4:20

5:19

10:16

114:10

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169:9

party 13:15

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pass 4:11

29:6

66:24 91:23

141:21

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158:11

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past 25:16

33:14 61:21

155:6

158:19

182:2

paste 47:18

68:15

pasted

47:10 65:10

68:14 68:18

patterned

219:2

pending

177:14

people 7:18

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110:6

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128:22

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per 112:13

121:5

percent 9:16

perception

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163:16

performance

124:8

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222:5

perhaps

187:12

period

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periods 24:15

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permanent

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permanently

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permission

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156:12

229:8

person 13:2

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128:7

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222:2

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pertain

124:23

pertaining

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96:6

99:20

109:16

114:16

120:8

120:10

126:7

128:11

pertains

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pertinent

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petitioner

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phase 155:14

phone 17:7

18:3

18:20 176:6

phones 5:13

phrase 69:6

124:10

200:16

phrasing

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physical

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Picton 19:4

19:5 19:7

19:12 19:14

19:18 19:25

91:4

91:16 91:22

92:5

picture

217:23

piece 29:17

29:17 81:18

206:14

206:14

pieces 126:12

131:13

223:14

pinching

193:4

placed 11:6

placeholder

208:15

placement

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108:14

113:17

places 107:23

placing 68:17

plain 15:11

plan 95:21

173:18

173:20

227:25

228:12

237:21

plane 160:1

planned 95:6

planning

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191:3

222:12

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play 8:4

116:9

185:16

plays 172:1

please 8:15

11:2 14:4

15:4

25:20 34:13

38:25 39:17

51:16

54:7

55:23 56:23

60:14 62:11

72:5

72:20

76:4 76:6

85:24

90:6

113:4

122:20

140:6 152:7

154:21

168:11

172:16

224:24

235:5

pleases

103:22

PLEP 222:15

225:6 225:9

PLEPS 108:17

point 5:9

19:11 24:25

28:7

29:19 34:17

35:10 36:13

37:22

38:2 54:4

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54:25 55:23

60:3 64:3

69:23 79:20

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100:11

109:1

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123:9

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166:3 167:2

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206:3 206:3

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222:19

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policies

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policy 34:2

34:4

62:19

63:1 63:1

69:10 69:25

71:25

83:7 83:8

83:19

84:1 84:5

84:5

84:22 84:24

85:6 93:3

93:7

93:17 93:21

poorly 95:24

portion

44:4

44:13 44:25

68:9

80:11

103:16

109:22

posed 199:16

position 33:8

39:23 65:18

66:23

114:13

157:4

177:21

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196:2

201:13

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possibility

85:7

possible 17:3

74:22

82:1 82:7

82:16 83:11

97:9

98:14

106:11

219:8

possibly 18:1

140:20

163:16

173:4

178:23

post 182:19

post-data

218:5

posthearing

63:8

postpone

204:3

potential

244:9

potentially

70:5

218:2 240:5

practice 32:5

33:5 123:4

practices

93:12 121:9

121:18

122:3

122:10

123:3

123:21

166:11

166:14

169:3

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pre 182:19

218:5

pre-argue

205:3

pre-break

185:18

precise

193:12

prediction

244:3

predictions

74:16

81:3

85:11

217:12

217:16

241:25

242:3

242:12

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242:22

242:24

242:25

preexisting

208:8

prefer 132:24

147:23

prehearing

5:23 6:1

12:22

15:9

15:15 28:16

preliminarily

102:3

premise

192:25

preprinted

104:5 104:7

104:8

present

4:16 4:24

9:6 31:22

37:13 37:13

40:2 40:5

99:22 124:7

131:11

181:20

182:3

201:10

216:2 222:5

presentation

27:25

101:15

188:24

presented

26:23 199:2

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presenting

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presents

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presume 95:22

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procedurally

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proceed 29:16

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proceedings

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process

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provisions

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prudent

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prudently

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psychologist

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pull 101:4

pulled

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questioning

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recounting

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recoup 175:15

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186:16

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187:22

196:5 196:9

239:13

recoupable

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recouped

95:24

recouping

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recoupment

24:17 53:25

54:5

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Hearing - Held On May 13, 2014 NDT Assgn # 018221-1 Page 315

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recover

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recovery

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Re-cross

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RECROSSEXAMINATION

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recruited

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recused 18:13

redemonstrate

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redirect

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reduce 193:2

redundant

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re-engage

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reflected

94:9

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reflecting

97:13 200:7

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reflective

84:12

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181:13

regarding

24:3

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31:8

31:10 41:13

44:14 44:23

45:18

62:2 65:3

68:2 68:3

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regression/

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regular

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rehashed

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reinforce

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reinforced

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94:16

reiterate

70:21 99:10

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reiterated

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rejected

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relate

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relates 24:13

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relating

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relation

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relationships

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relative

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relatively

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relevancy

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relevant 23:6

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remaining

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55:21 74:24

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represent

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234:10

requested

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191:6

requesting

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requests

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require 50:24

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Hearing - Held On May 13, 2014 NDT Assgn # 018221-1 Page 318

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required

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requirement

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requirements

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reread

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RE-REDIRECT

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rescheduling

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reserve 19:19

29:19

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resistant

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resolution

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resolve 114:6

115:3

resolved

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respectively

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responding

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responses

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responsible

62:25 112:4

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62:7

152:8

172:16

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restated 84:2

restricted

12:23

restroom

245:14

result 159:14

189:4

195:11

204:4

207:20

215:12

215:16

239:11

241:4

resulted 6:25

7:9 9:19

200:21

204:16

results

167:16

resuming

159:3 179:5

RESY 175:25

retain 178:18

retract 75:16

76:11 110:7

140:22

145:13

149:3

242:18

returning

69:1

reverse 45:22

review 7:6

23:1 27:9

28:22 48:14

61:12 64:19

85:25

102:23

137:18

139:19

139:20

142:11

190:25

reviewed 42:5

42:13 101:6

107:9

136:20

140:16

195:8

211:25

233:2

reviewing

62:8 102:16

108:23

195:5

revised 41:20

41:22

42:7 43:9

46:18 46:23

63:1 66:2

67:15 68:19

181:7

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revising 42:6

revision

7:6 61:12

64:19

revisions

41:25 48:6

revisited

177:17

rich 119:17

147:20

Richard 5:1

right-hand

107:8

rights 7:1

7:5 136:15

road 22:23

role 113:4

113:6 114:3

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room 4:16

4:19 4:20

7:24 16:3

16:5

34:13 82:16

105:23

158:2

rote 221:25

roughly 18:22

67:1 158:19

181:1

182:22

routine

225:15

241:1

routines

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188:21

188:23

241:4

RP 109:10

165:16

167:16

168:5

168:11

RP's 109:9

rule 7:16

7:16

18:15 34:21

34:21

39:7 44:1

47:20

52:5

52:13

100:23

100:25

101:1 101:3

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ruled 25:3

31:4

rules 6:23

7:7 7:8

9:11

42:10 57:16

57:21 62:19

75:23 76:18

96:1 101:11

114:16

115:10

219:19

ruling 6:6

15:5

24:22

25:1

29:19

34:5

45:13 45:22

205:12

rulings 6:5

S

S-1 38:10

S-13 141:3

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S-14 148:17

148:22

S-15 100:5

100:6 100:7

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S-16 227:21

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241:14

S-17 38:11

S-18 35:5

35:7 36:3

36:4 37:23

S-19 38:11

S-2 56:17

56:20 60:25

213:23

S-20 26:15

154:10

S-24 26:15

S-25 26:10

26:24 28:13

S-26 26:10

27:2 28:20

S-27 26:11

26:23

27:4

28:21 28:21

38:11

154:10

S-3 40:25

42:24

43:1 43:2

46:12 47:23

66:10 66:13

69:2 80:7

80:16

81:1 86:4

99:20

S-4 44:4

44:21 44:22

46:19

47:9 48:9

48:24 50:20

61:1

65:23 66:14

66:15 66:17

67:8

67:11 67:16

67:23

68:4

68:17 105:2

213:1 217:2

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S-5 60:18

61:4 61:5

S-6 30:14

30:19

34:5 35:4

safe 19:20

Saturday

184:8

Savage 149:8

save 19:16

saw 230:22

scenario

218:11

218:13

scenarios

217:24

Schaffer 7:12

schedule 17:3

135:2

scheduled

137:18

160:20

161:11

184:16

184:17

198:18

scheduling

17:9 17:12

school 4:11

29:4 29:6

31:11 31:12

35:9

35:10 35:16

35:19 41:14

48:9

48:17 49:24

50:4 52:5

53:6

53:16

57:3

57:11

58:2 58:3

59:7

66:24 67:25

73:14 73:14

73:22 73:23

74:1

74:11 74:13

75:21 76:16

77:12 80:16

83:3 85:5

85:21 89:21

90:3

90:17 91:23

92:10

93:3

107:5 107:9

108:19

115:17

116:1

120:10

126:7

141:21

141:25

142:13

149:1 150:3

151:1

158:10

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224:4

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239:20

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schoolrepresented

130:6

schools

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school-year

6:20

Schwerdt

90:17

238:16

238:17

238:19

scope 21:22

22:1 86:7

112:6

scores 226:10

226:10

se 12:14

SEA 58:18

second 17:8

17:22

68:3

91:15

147:12

151:4 168:2

199:4

202:19

224:24

231:21

242:19

section 48:16

48:21 48:22

49:2 49:8

50:22 50:24

51:21 51:23

52:4

52:12

53:5

57:25 58:15

58:25

59:6

59:11 61:21

62:3 66:9

68:3

68:21 74:11

75:20 76:15

77:7 80:6

80:11 81:13

81:21 85:18

108:13

108:18

108:19

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sections

53:19 59:16

59:16 59:21

seeing 187:17

seem 111:3

seems 86:10

229:11

seen 27:24

28:9 107:22

227:18

227:19

230:19

selected

220:7

selection

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selectively

101:4

self 157:25

sense 19:15

34:25

63:7 88:7

95:18

131:12

132:16

133:18

sent 11:6

38:1 142:22

sentence

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75:19 75:19

76:13 76:14

78:9

78:16 78:20

88:4

95:16 95:17

96:16 96:21

168:1

231:22

separate

51:13

111:12

173:24

September

28:25 181:1

serve 113:8

179:19

served 223:24

service

5:21 70:2

96:10 96:15

96:20 96:24

108:14

108:14

108:15

147:13

160:16

176:25

178:9 218:4

220:25

239:12

239:25

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services

5:3 6:21

7:3 31:2

35:13

40:1

49:10

52:6 52:14

53:7

53:13

57:4 58:2

58:4 59:7

59:9

69:11

72:1

74:13 80:15

80:25 81:22

85:9

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96:19

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99:12

111:15

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175:7 177:7

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186:2

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188:1

192:10

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196:6

207:22

214:1 214:4

217:9 218:7

218:20

219:15

219:23

222:3

230:15

240:4

serving

158:18

224:3

sets 10:17

seven 112:7

187:8 194:5

several 72:24

shaded 102:12

102:19

shared 166:11

169:2

she'll 39:12

she's 108:9

shift

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158:21

160:22

164:16

197:11

212:22

short 78:24

195:2

shorter 73:2

short-term

77:1

shot 135:2

showed 126:24

200:10

showing 183:7

183:10

202:24

shown 9:14

9:18 9:23

10:12 108:7

194:1 213:1

217:1 217:6

shows 10:2

37:3 173:18

206:19

207:6

sight-based

158:1

significant

175:14

175:22

176:17

184:20

196:8

237:18

239:12

significantly

159:24

176:12

181:8

185:21

240:2

silent 5:12

similar 10:17

35:1 35:3

235:12

similarly

231:24

240:12

simply 9:2

70:7

83:24

183:13

208:4 212:1

212:13

239:4

240:16

single

11:23

73:2 100:24

155:8

sit 18:4

site 46:11

47:11 47:13

65:8 65:11

sitting 79:22

105:23

situation

84:6

situations

83:20 156:8

six 112:7

194:5

Sixteen

185:15

195:21

195:23

sketch

157:7

157:22

skill 43:6

47:24 48:12

49:13 49:21

51:1 52:2

53:3

53:21

56:4 58:6

59:1 62:5

64:9

68:23 80:18

95:23 175:9

177:18

216:8

skills

48:18 48:19

49:11 49:11

49:25

50:1 50:8

50:10 50:11

51:19 53:17

53:18

86:6 172:21

174:16

174:20

174:22

175:15

177:13

180:2

180:18

187:22

213:17

213:19

214:20

215:3

224:16

slow 8:16

121:11

158:4

slowed 8:11

slower

39:11 227:7

small 7:24

174:24

174:25

smooth 163:13

snapshot

200:17

202:3

snow 184:20

184:22

social 222:13

sole 31:17

31:18

solely 33:4

somebody 23:5

40:14 69:12

72:2

106:9

106:19

120:8 120:9

154:12

163:19

somehow 20:12

88:12

someone 69:17

72:12

119:25

154:16

163:24

211:6

somewhere

18:16

91:8

108:7

110:20

136:3

sooner 204:11

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sorry 7:19

20:15 25:21

26:20

34:9

46:24 47:19

48:4

60:16 64:13

66:8 69:8

76:6

77:19 78:15

79:7 81:7

86:17 86:20

90:7 95:2

95:18 99:23

103:6 105:4

105:25

108:12

110:18

114:24

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118:3

121:13

121:14

122:7 124:9

128:12

143:21

147:2

147:17

149:18

150:9

152:24

155:25

158:6

168:13

172:15

172:17

176:7

192:18

196:24

197:17

204:16

209:22

228:4

229:15

242:7

242:16

245:4

sort 197:4

216:4

sound 8:9

225:17

South 67:25

speak 8:10

11:1

34:20 39:11

65:25 124:9

128:25

240:21

speaking

8:9

115:18

170:23

171:3

special 5:3

13:24 39:25

41:13 41:14

46:15

52:6

52:14

53:7

53:13

56:7 65:9

66:9

66:23 67:25

89:19 89:20

108:16

113:2

125:12

125:24

126:3

141:16

157:8

157:11

157:25

158:1 158:9

158:17

162:16

164:4 172:9

173:13

173:13

174:1 175:2

175:20

180:5 198:4

210:11

212:10

218:7

230:14

244:19

244:24

specific 30:7

34:22 51:12

62:20

78:1 78:7

78:10 85:21

85:22 85:23

86:3 86:9

87:9

87:22 92:19

94:4

94:23 96:17

96:22 123:7

124:23

151:16

164:9 172:2

172:3

183:14

192:4

192:21

221:1

242:10

244:7 244:8

specifically

21:8

50:15 51:23

55:24 64:22

64:23

79:3

83:19

158:22

159:16

177:18

204:24

214:8

specified

213:18

213:20

spectrum

159:24

240:22

speculate

9:21

speculation

97:16

230:12

242:9

speculative

243:2 243:3

speed 8:11

8:14

spell 39:1

spelled

91:8 145:20

163:6

spelling

112:23

159:16

spent 92:11

92:17

spoke 106:9

106:20

140:3

spoken 139:7

spot 38:19

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spreadsheet

104:11

spring

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167:3 167:5

167:18

187:2 187:3

187:5 190:4

191:22

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194:19

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195:8

195:24

200:12

203:4

208:24

218:8

stack 143:4

144:16

144:21

145:8

staff 19:16

41:14

86:8

88:19 88:19

88:20

89:1 89:2

89:10 89:18

89:20

90:1 98:7

112:23

126:10

157:11

157:12

159:11

159:16

159:19

188:23

224:4 229:7

229:9

229:23

230:7

230:23

231:2

231:23

232:5 232:7

stand 225:4

standard 9:15

15:12 141:7

standardized

214:16

standards

58:17

59:5 162:12

173:1

213:16

standing 25:2

36:14

stands 35:3

215:1

start 8:23

15:18 27:12

27:15 27:17

121:15

153:8 157:2

182:15

185:14

245:16

started 15:15

67:21 92:10

108:8 184:8

starting

30:13 89:21

136:3

157:23

starts 36:25

state 4:8

38:25 47:11

47:11 49:15

50:16 57:23

58:14

59:1 59:5

70:22 80:12

81:24 84:15

84:22

86:2

86:10 86:11

86:15 115:9

122:3 123:5

126:15

129:3

136:16

136:20

138:17

158:2 162:7

166:12

169:4 173:4

173:4

210:24

214:18

214:19

216:2 233:1

240:25

stated 32:4

36:17 45:17

46:24

47:8 59:3

67:13 70:11

70:14 71:21

78:20 80:11

81:6

83:19 83:24

85:16

89:6 94:7

107:14

115:3

126:20

127:2

136:24

136:25

137:17

140:1

140:11

140:13

178:8 225:2

225:13

232:9

233:18

234:16

234:21

statement

61:15 72:23

75:25 76:21

77:14 78:25

81:8

88:13 88:16

90:12 95:25

96:4 96:5

97:20 97:21

97:24

98:1

98:15

111:14

124:12

127:15

127:25

128:5

138:12

140:18

152:25

165:7 165:8

165:19

165:20

167:24

188:2 215:8

215:10

220:13

225:4 226:3

226:5

232:13

statements

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220:16

states 43:6

49:8 53:6

54:4 55:1

55:24

58:5 59:6

69:16

71:5

72:10

79:3

80:17

81:1 83:4

83:7 83:9

84:1

86:24 101:3

107:8

172:25

172:25

231:20

232:3

236:21

state's 84:11

static

67:20

179:24

226:22

227:1 227:4

228:22

232:10

232:15

239:5

stating 49:13

50:25 53:12

81:10 81:10

103:25

150:11

191:20

234:19

status 179:1

statutes

59:25

162:11

stay 179:24

226:22

227:1 227:4

232:10

232:14

237:12

237:13

staying

179:16

228:22

stenographer

225:15

step 18:14

stepping

181:16

steps 10:12

stick 101:15

stood 177:21

stop 15:4

71:7

77:10 77:11

128:22

130:23

165:13

189:19

stopping

130:24

story 195:2

strategies

185:22

185:24

187:21

188:14

237:22

240:7

straying

99:15 123:9

stricken

31:14

strict 239:18

strictly

154:23

211:22

strike 112:15

113:11

118:1

152:23

structure

117:3 117:4

struggle

188:19

189:2

struggles

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225:15

226:13

student

4:11 6:21

29:2 29:2

29:3 31:3

31:7 32:6

32:15 32:17

32:19 32:21

33:13 35:12

35:22 36:21

37:4

39:19 40:14

40:18 40:19

40:22

55:5

59:13 59:13

69:21 72:16

73:13 75:19

75:20 76:14

76:15 80:17

84:6 90:2

102:4 111:6

111:16

111:20

111:21

112:1

112:20

112:21

112:24

113:7 117:1

117:12

122:22

122:23

124:20

124:22

125:8

126:15

126:19

126:20

126:24

127:4

153:12

158:22

158:22

159:14

159:15

159:17

159:19

159:23

159:24

159:25

160:1 160:3

160:10

160:13

160:18

160:19

162:6 162:6

163:22

168:11

171:17

172:18

173:19

175:8

175:25

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182:1 182:2

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189:4

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191:3

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196:4 196:5

196:8 204:5

204:25

205:18

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216:5

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218:2 218:6

220:13

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223:7

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224:3

225:15

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229:7 230:5

231:19

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232:3

232:10

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239:8

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240:3 240:4

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241:3 243:9

students 31:3

31:9

31:12 35:12

35:13 35:15

35:17

50:4 74:4

121:6

121:16

169:4

175:20

179:24

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214:17

214:21

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226:21

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student's

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7:7 7:10

28:15 28:18

29:3 29:5

33:12 33:18

50:7

112:5

112:11

112:14

117:15

123:17

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192:4

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220:7 221:3

221:23

222:1

222:11

222:25

223:1 223:1

223:2

223:13

232:7 239:5

240:24

244:4

stuff

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227:11

sub 213:12

213:24

213:25

subgroup

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subject 17:18

21:5

59:24

131:22

245:8

subjectwise 216:24

submission

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submit 26:2

145:6 202:1

submitted

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submitting

28:2

subsection

52:7

52:15 55:16

58:15 58:15

213:11

213:11

213:13

214:9 215:9

215:12

217:7

Subsections

214:3

substance

165:2 165:3

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191:15

191:16

200:22

207:21

208:17

substantial

125:9 152:5

176:9

185:20

substantially

29:5

181:7 224:8

226:6 226:8

substantiated

186:15

substantive

6:25 7:9

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132:6 132:6

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195:3

203:10

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substantively

204:25

205:1

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195:13

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200:18

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24:16 63:11

121:8 177:3

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31:1

83:24 98:8

suggested

69:17 72:11

187:12

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52:9 98:2

125:23

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89:25

90:4 177:2

summarize

106:16

summary 6:8

6:10 106:19

108:14

108:15

108:15

summer

29:11 29:12

33:20 35:16

40:15 40:18

40:20 74:21

112:22

126:19

160:14

175:2

175:22

177:7

177:24

178:1 180:9

180:10

194:17

super 163:13

supersede

57:16 57:23

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229:8

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52:1 58:4

58:13 58:21

62:4

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77:23

78:8

78:23 78:24

112:23

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178:7

182:14

186:19

193:17

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206:20

220:16

244:18

244:24

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40:14 40:17

64:18 64:21

77:15 78:20

supporting

176:11

supports

68:22

supposed

228:5

sure 5:20

13:11 27:14

30:12 34:11

54:8 76:7

88:8 88:9

101:9

109:22

116:17

132:11

133:22

135:16

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150:16

154:22

155:15

156:24

157:10

162:20

184:1 189:9

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216:11

242:20

surgery 90:19

suspect 36:15

203:1

sustain 52:24

71:16 97:17

200:14

231:10

Sustained

242:7

swear 38:23

sworn 38:24

39:19

101:23

systemically

31:2

T

table 171:6

tabs 22:22

taking

106:7

202:17

talk 22:5

60:15 152:9

158:22

166:5

174:12

234:3

talked 15:8

235:15

236:12

236:15

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236:16

talking

9:20 35:4

44:11

175:24

176:2

179:17

190:1 201:2

202:13

202:15

218:22

236:3

240:20

245:18

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194:15

214:10

target 54:1

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187:22

224:16

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172:21

task 221:25

229:9

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157:25

teacher 40:19

67:25

149:11

149:11

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teaching

48:18 49:11

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team 29:6

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59:13

60:8 69:4

69:11 69:17

69:18

70:5

70:17 70:18

71:6 72:1

72:11 72:12

73:11 73:17

74:17

77:8

78:17

80:8 81:1

81:4 85:9

85:12

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110:7

112:10

112:13

116:3

117:22

118:23

118:25

119:1 119:5

119:18

125:4 127:3

127:8

127:11

127:16

127:21

127:25

128:1

128:12

128:21

128:22

128:23

129:4

129:11

129:20

130:5 130:7

136:20

139:1 139:3

139:21

140:14

150:6

150:21

151:1 161:7

161:8 166:1

166:10

170:20

170:22

171:5 171:8

175:13

176:10

181:2 182:9

182:10

184:13

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196:15

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202:21

203:15

203:16

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216:8

217:13

217:17

217:19

217:24

218:15

218:18

219:9

219:21

222:16

222:25

223:24

233:3 233:7

234:16

238:6 242:2

242:13

242:15

242:23

243:11

244:12

teams 73:16

77:7 78:16

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179:11

180:15

185:17

223:1 223:2

technical

10:1 107:23

184:10

technically

40:20

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temperature

7:18

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tend 134:16

ten-day 178:9

tendency

205:14

tenets 134:24

term 52:19

56:1

94:12

107:24

174:21

175:11

175:25

221:12

terms 83:6

137:22

163:14

203:11

240:6

test 9:16

testified

9:17

39:20 86:18

89:22 156:9

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182:18

testify 10:22

12:16 17:14

86:20 86:21

101:22

133:12

133:14

153:23

testifying

11:21

20:9 120:20

123:10

143:22

153:21

154:13

245:13

testimony

24:24 29:25

33:17 71:13

72:21

82:5

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112:13

133:14

140:19

143:23

145:10

167:20

202:10

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235:11

235:12

235:20

235:21

236:21

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50:19 51:7

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22:15 54:16

61:5

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67:9

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105:21

109:4 110:5

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115:14

141:11

145:18

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148:20

185:6

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233:9 237:7

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185:5 185:7

that's 5:7

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25:8

28:19 29:15

31:19

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44:12 44:21

45:13 45:21

46:4

50:21 52:16

52:22 60:10

63:11 63:16

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103:15

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114:12

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120:21

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211:3 213:2

220:19

223:21

224:18

228:23

229:18

235:25

238:15

241:7

242:17

243:13

243:23

244:10

theme 200:13

themselves

12:15 26:12

93:11

then-existing

28:18

theoretically

242:5

therefore

33:13

50:9

138:4

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there's 9:8

13:22

14:9

14:24

18:2

22:14

23:4

30:20 30:23

36:11 37:24

70:8 82:7

87:7 88:3

88:10 101:2

107:23

107:24

121:14

131:13

132:13

154:4

154:14

154:22

163:6 167:3

175:7

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189:17

199:4

204:10

204:10

208:8

208:10

they're

9:25 13:5

23:6

25:18 26:10

29:21 37:21

91:11 91:13

104:1

119:14

131:18

131:18

151:2 154:5

177:13

180:2 193:3

193:4

205:10

226:22

226:25

third 168:3

232:2

thoughts

139:24

threw 203:24

throughout

180:14

227:5

thumbnail

157:7

157:22

Thursday

92:10 143:2

144:1

144:15

thus 92:23

tied 79:5

79:8

timeline

205:24

timelines

135:1

183:25

timely

29:11

218:19

time-saving

164:12

today 5:5

11:24

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202:21

today's

4:12 24:2

tomorrow

16:21

189:20

245:16

tools 185:24

top 28:22

57:5 149:9

topic

137:10

169:3

179:16

topics 197:14

total 35:12

152:4 152:4

185:12

totally

134:15

241:1

touch 157:5

197:14

touched

122:22

182:17

188:3 220:3

tough 186:8

toward 23:15

towards

37:1 221:2

track 28:15

134:17

135:16

tracking

213:8

tracks 219:18

training

13:24 88:19

89:8 89:9

89:17

90:2

90:10 90:13

90:20 90:22

90:24 91:20

91:24

92:3 92:9

92:14 92:17

92:20 92:22

92:24

93:1 94:9

94:10 99:4

trainings

172:24

transcribe

47:14

transcription

ist 39:2

transfers

160:8

transit 7:18

transition

141:20

141:24

transitioning

191:5 193:5

transmission

142:12

transportatio

n 96:12

tries 32:25

triggered

125:20

trouble

242:18

true 180:21

181:23

201:8

235:25

try 29:25

31:1 33:3

38:16 72:20

73:2

83:17 115:3

121:18

133:7 157:1

197:22

243:6

trying

13:11 30:24

49:16 49:19

50:2 69:6

79:22

82:9 84:3

84:13 90:16

95:9

96:21 98:18

101:13

115:8

131:10

133:17

152:8 155:4

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187:11

187:13

226:11

243:5

243:14

Tuesday 4:3

184:25

turn 35:5

61:7

180:3 213:3

turned 11:11

twice 58:11

192:2

two-minute

34:10

two-week

28:23

type 179:7

205:15

230:19

237:24

241:25

242:14

243:20

243:22

types 88:6

217:23

typical 121:9

typically

71:2 71:5

73:10 74:20

typos 46:3

U

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11:19

133:19

ultimate

171:11

ultimately

40:8 114:10

165:4 167:6

um 10:24

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197:1

unable 196:4

unclear 20:12

21:2

70:10

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168:13

underlying

208:23

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5:4 21:3

35:20 37:20

44:16

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70:15

79:7 88:9

101:13

134:16

138:17

154:1

154:19

162:21

171:9

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204:7

206:17

207:13

209:6

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244:6

understanding

20:6 21:6

54:23 56:18

57:24 62:17

70:22 71:10

74:18 74:20

84:14 84:23

118:22

118:25

129:2

131:24

163:23

165:8

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169:13

171:16

172:17

174:14

174:19

175:10

181:17

189:3

219:25

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understood

12:17

14:7 16:8

17:19 20:14

21:1 167:20

undue 80:17

175:8

175:11

175:12

176:4

195:13

239:12

unduly

15:10 196:4

unhappiness

163:17

unique

186:6 186:7

unless

24:23 34:22

79:3 119:21

153:22

197:21

209:8

Unreasonable

203:21

unreasonably

202:22

203:23

untimely 28:3

unusual

175:20

175:23

176:15

176:17

upcoming

191:22

238:25

update 68:19

updated 68:18

upon 41:25

47:3 104:11

123:3 123:4

124:19

179:5

181:25

206:20

upside 241:1

usually 55:17

utilize

237:22

utilized 56:8

214:16

utilizing

241:25

utterly 31:9

V

vague 52:22

114:25

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140:21

235:2 235:6

243:2

vagueness

242:5

validate

179:11

validated

211:1

various 19:16

194:14

214:12

vast 113:15

vein 35:1

35:3

verbal 9:2

193:3 193:5

verify 187:17

verifying

210:1 210:4

version 41:21

197:20

versus 235:11

view 58:20

179:10

179:11

180:5

195:12

215:18

217:24

218:15

218:17

violated 7:5

violation

6:25 7:10

7:15 9:14

9:18 9:19

10:2

violations

7:8 9:25

9:25 10:1

visual 9:2

voice 171:11

voices 7:23

vs 7:12

W

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24:6

24:15 31:22

31:25 32:11

33:1 39:6

140:7 171:2

182:11

200:11

201:18

201:25

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203:18

219:22

waiting

128:16

170:7

186:24

187:14

200:3

walk 36:16

213:21

walking

37:6

134:5 195:3

wasn't 60:6

65:22

81:9

108:7 114:5

128:7 150:8

196:16

202:10

218:4

233:21

233:23

waste 162:10

ways 97:14

Weast 7:12

web 46:11

47:11 47:13

65:8 65:10

we'd 166:25

208:1

Wednesday

161:11

week 143:2

144:1

weeks

138:19

139:10

152:4 153:1

153:7

194:16

194:18

194:19

194:25

welcome 54:17

72:18

we'll 14:24

19:10 19:19

22:14 24:25

29:24 34:20

37:7 44:9

94:20

101:15

101:16

103:1 131:1

145:9 148:5

155:17

155:22

170:19

200:9

245:16

we're 8:19

9:20

10:22

13:8 17:2

17:5 22:8

27:11

37:5

37:15

59:3 61:2

63:19 69:20

72:14 79:22

103:5 105:2

122:23

124:4 131:7

134:13

135:16

143:11

144:23

148:18

149:25

175:24

176:2 180:1

183:22

189:19

189:22

195:3

195:17

197:12

200:18

201:2

202:13

202:14

205:24

206:13

207:2

212:24

216:23

219:4

223:11

234:12

236:3 240:1

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244:6

we've 92:23

143:12

143:14

163:2

164:12

185:23

188:4 192:1

194:1

199:24

202:10

240:6

whatever

37:16 59:25

101:25

142:22

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Whatever's

136:10

whenever

46:22 46:22

74:22

82:1 82:7

Whereupon

25:4 36:4

38:10

43:2 105:11

148:15

148:22

161:17

162:2 174:9

190:20

198:11

198:23

207:15

208:20

209:17

211:16

212:19

229:2

wherever

82:16

137:19

whether

6:17 6:24

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9:16

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31:6

32:15 33:13

36:20 59:14

60:3

62:18 62:22

63:10 63:11

83:18 92:18

93:18

103:14

115:2 127:4

146:19

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152:19

152:22

154:7

171:17

172:18

172:25

175:20

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177:4

179:11

180:18

193:3 193:4

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202:21

203:23

204:2

204:19

205:17

211:1

211:12

213:6 219:8

221:9

222:12

236:4

240:13

240:24

244:13

whole 31:14

49:17

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who's

131:11

142:23

whose 79:8

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201:22

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24:10 152:2

167:16

177:4

182:16

182:19

182:20

184:5 184:7

184:13

185:14

187:18

190:2

194:18

195:8

195:20

202:25

203:6

206:10

208:24

208:25

211:25

225:23

226:15

wintess

229:18

withdraw

35:25

36:2

37:25 83:23

211:11

211:14

withdrawing

148:18

withdrawn

36:3 36:4

148:23

231:15

witness 10:14

10:25 11:13

12:5 12:7

13:6 13:8

13:9 15:4

15:5 16:8

17:2

17:13 17:17

17:23 18:12

19:4 19:5

19:8 21:9

21:12 23:19

37:11 38:24

39:3

39:15 39:18

43:21 43:23

48:22

49:1 49:3

55:14 56:24

60:16 61:10

64:14 64:16

66:8

66:21 67:18

75:7

76:21 82:15

82:18

84:4 84:4

84:8 85:5

85:8

87:16 87:19

88:3

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88:14 88:18

89:11 89:15

90:7

91:10 91:16

91:21 93:19

93:22 97:20

98:14 98:25

99:25 100:3

100:10

101:19

102:6

102:10

102:15

102:19

102:23

103:3

105:20

107:1 108:3

110:16

111:16

111:18

113:24

115:12

116:4

116:10

116:15

117:2 117:5

118:18

119:11

119:14

120:2

121:13

121:18

122:9

123:16

123:19

123:22

124:2

124:17

125:1 125:5

125:18

127:18

127:21

129:14

129:19

130:3

131:17

131:19

132:19

133:9

133:18

135:11

140:8 141:6

141:11

143:1 143:4

143:22

143:24

144:2 144:6

144:15

144:21

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146:25

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149:21

149:23

150:16

150:19

154:25

158:6 158:8

161:5

162:24

164:18

167:25

168:5 168:8

168:18

168:22

169:1

169:18

169:20

169:24

172:7 176:9

182:24

183:7

183:11

192:6 192:8

192:13

192:17

192:24

194:10

197:1 197:3

197:23

198:2

198:15

199:13

210:10

215:2

221:19

222:4

222:10

222:22

223:13

227:16

227:18

229:16

230:1

230:21

230:25

231:3 234:8

235:11

243:17

244:18

245:6

witnesses

5:15

10:17 10:18

16:3 16:4

17:6

18:12 18:14

20:7 20:9

20:19

21:4

28:11

33:9 134:22

170:20

200:10

203:14

203:18

207:4

240:20

witness's

62:17

230:13

wondering

16:19

131:20

134:4

134:11

135:3

wording

167:13

work 10:16

240:7

worked

111:5

111:14

117:22

188:18

working

159:19

works 91:6

worry

134:15

134:19

worth 207:10

wrap 135:6

write 13:17

14:16 230:1

writing

169:21

written 8:2

24:22

55:5

63:20 64:25

84:5 146:10

224:16

230:6

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 334 of 335
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wrong 68:15

204:17

Y

Yates 4:15

7:25 39:10

yellow 30:20

yes-or-no

234:6

yet 86:12

112:15

206:3

234:21

you'll

18:11 18:12

28:21 104:1

yours 30:22

130:12

yourself

109:21

116:2

120:11

128:2 149:7

152:19

234:17

you've 31:4

56:20

64:2 128:13

132:8

132:22

133:7 133:8

173:7

Case 1:14-cv-01115-PA Document 2-5 Filed 07/14/14 Page 335 of 335