October 27, 2022 

The Meeting of the Advisory Committee on Economic Inclusion 

of the 

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 

Held in the Board Room 

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Building 

Washington, D.C. 

Open to Public Observation Via Webcast 

October 27, 2022 – 9:00 A.M. 

The meeting of the FDIC Advisory Committee on Economic 

Inclusion (ComE-IN or Committee) was called to order by Martin 

J. Gruenberg, Acting Chairman of the Board of Directors of the

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (Corporation or FDIC).

The members of ComE-IN present at the meeting were Marla 

Bilonick, President and CEO, National Association for Latino 

Community Asset Builders; Michael Calhoun, President, Center for 

Responsible Lending; Naomi Camper, Chief Policy Officer, 

American Bankers Association; Thomas Foley, Executive Director, 

National Disability Institute; Kenneth Kelly, Chairman and CEO, 

First Independence Corp and First Independence Bank; Margaret 

Libby, CEO and Founder, MyPath; Brandee McHale, Head of 

Community Investing and Development, Citi and President, Citi 

Foundation; Jonathan Mintz, President and CEO, Cities for 

Financial Empowerment Fund; and Jennifer Tescher, President and 

CEO, Financial Health Network. 

Steven L. Antonakes, Executive Vice President for 

Enterprise Risk Management, Eastern Bank; Raphael Bostic, 

President and CEO, Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta; and 

Christina Tetreault, Deputy Commissioner, Office of Financial 

Technology Innovation, California Department of Financial 

Protection and Innovation were absent from the meeting. 

Members of the Corporation’s Board of Directors present at 

the meeting were Martin J. Gruenberg, Acting Chairman, Michael 

J. Hsu, Director (Acting Comptroller of the Currency), and Rohit

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October 27, 2022 

Chopra, Director (Director, Consumer Financial Protection 

Bureau). 

 Corporation staff who attended the meeting included Xavier 

Adomatis, John M. Anderlik, Tawanta L. Brinson, Luke H. Brown, 

Susan Burhouse, Elissa Cohen, Karyen Chu, Jermaine Cunningham, 

Timothy J. Davin, Angela Dean, Debra A. Decker, Paola L. Diaz, 

Keith S. Ernst, Michael P. Farrell, Sheila R. Finlayson, Gregory 

Gelzinis, Shannon N. Greco, Patricia S. Gurneau, Deva Helmand, 

Edward J. Hof, Nicholas S. Kazmerski, Rosilyn L. King, Mark J. 

Kutzback, Jonathan N. Miller, Joyce M. Northwood, Elizabeth 

Ortiz, Yazmin E. Osaki, Mark E. Pearce, Nikita Pearson, Harrel 

M. Pettway, Ariana L. Rambuyan, Betty J. Rudolph, Marguerite 

Sagatelian, James P. Sheesley, Jacqueline R. Steller, Jocelyn 

Sutton, Mona L. Thomas, Jeffrey Weinstein, Meron Wondowosen, and 

Montrice G. Yakimov. 

 Acting Chairman Gruenberg presided over the proceedings. 

Elizabeth Ortiz, Deputy Director, Consumer and Community 

Affairs, Division of Depositor and Consumer Protection (DCP), 

and the Committee’s Designated Federal Officer, served as 

moderator. 

Opening Remarks 

 Ms. Ortiz opened the meeting by stating that the Government 

in the Sunshine Act (Sunshine Act) imposes notice and access 

requirements whenever a quorum of the FDIC Board of Directors 

meets to conduct or determine Agency business. Ms. Ortiz noted 

that the meeting is not held for such purposes and does not 

constitute a meeting under the Sunshine Act. She explained that 

the Board members present at the meeting would only engage in 

general or preliminary discussions that do not relate to 

specific proposals for action pending before the FDIC, and that 

any specific issues for Board resolution will remain open for 

full consideration by the Board at a later date. 

 

Ms. Ortiz then introduced Acting Chairman Gruenberg, who 

presided at the meeting. 

Acting Chairman Gruenberg welcomed the members of the 

Committee and noted that this is the first in-person meeting 

held since 2019. He next welcomed the newest member of the 

Committee, Marla Bilonick. Next, Acting Chairman Gruenberg 

provided an overview of the meeting Agenda and commented on the 

importance of the results and implications of the FDIC’s 2021 

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October 27, 2022 

National Survey of Unbanked and Underbanked Households (Survey). 

He also commented on the critical nature of the afternoon’s 

presentation on maintaining public confidence in banks and 

deposit insurance. Following that, he invited Acting Comptroller 

Hsu and Director Chopra to make brief opening remarks. 

Following these remarks, Acting Chairman Gruenberg invited 

Ms. Ortiz to introduce the first presentation. 

 

Results of the 2021 FDIC National Survey of Unbanked and 

Underbanked Households 

Ms. Ortiz introduced Karyen Chu, Chief, Banking and 

Consumer Research Section, Research and Regulatory Analysis 

Branch, Division of Insurance and Research (DIR), to moderate 

the presentation of the results of the Survey. Ms. Chu provided 

some background information regarding the Survey and then turned 

the presentation over to the panelists to discuss the Survey 

results: Mark Kutzbach, Senior Financial Economist, Financial 

Modeling and Research Section, Research and Regulatory Analysis 

Branch, DIR; Joyce Northwood, Senior Financial Economist, 

Banking and Consumer Research Section, Research and Regulatory 

Analysis Branch, DIR; and Jeffrey Weinstein, Senior Financial 

Economist, Senior Financial Economist, Banking and Consumer 

Research Section, Research and Regulatory Analysis Branch, DIR. 

Following the presentation, several Committee members asked 

questions regarding the availability of specific data. Several 

members asked how certain terms were defined for purposes of the 

survey or for other clarifications, including the definitions 

used for mobile banking, online banking, and prepaid cards. 

Committee members then discussed “other reasons” for not 

having a bank account, including lack of consumer trust in banks 

and the banking system. Committee members also suggested various 

ways to improve the Survey in the future to produce additional 

helpful data. 

 Acting Chairman Gruenberg then asked about the declining 

use of nonbank financial products by all households with members 

noting interesting drops in use of various nonbank financial 

products at different time periods. 

 The meeting then recessed from 10:22 a.m. to 10:35 a.m. 

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October 27, 2022 

Implications of the 2021 FDIC National Survey of Unbanked and 

Underbanked Households 

When the meeting resumed, Ms. Ortiz introduced Keith 

Ernst, Associate Director, Consumer Research and Examination 

Analytics, Policy and Research Branch, DCP, to moderate a panel 

presentation on the implications of the 2021 National Survey of 

Unbanked and Underbanked Households. Mr. Ernst’s fellow 

panelists were Susan Burhouse, Senior Consumer Researcher, 

Consumer Research and Examination Analytics, Policy and Research 

Branch, DCP, and Yazmin Osaki, Senior Consumer Research 

Associate, Consumer Research and Examination Analytics, Policy 

and Research Branch, DCP. 

Before beginning the formal presentation, Mr. Ernst 

acknowledged the outstanding contributions to the FDIC Household 

Survey made by Karyen Chu. Mr. Ernst noted Ms. Chu’s dedication 

to high standards and to keeping the survey relevant as critical 

to its success over the last decade. Following the presentation, 

Mr. Ernst then opened the floor for questions and discussion. 

Committee members discussed nonbank online payment 

services. Members made observations regarding consumers comfort 

with the control, speed and frequent communication provided by 

the apps, including how these payment apps represent a form of 

social engagement. Another member noted there is targeted, 

sophisticated marketing and messaging. 

Members also discussed the bankable moment created by the 

COVID-19 pandemic and highlighted other bankable moments. These 

included receipt of public benefits and employment. 

 

Several Committee members discussed the public-private 

partnerships, which emerged during the pandemic, and that 

improved economic inclusion. 

Acting Chairman Gruenberg agreed that it would be important 

to look deeper into the public-private partnerships and their 

impact on unbanked/underbanked households. He suggested the ad 

hoc partnerships from the pandemic could be a basis to create 

more formal partnerships moving forward. He noted that online 

and mobile banking have the same functionally, but access is not 

the same. He also agreed, that we want to understand the 

decreased use of nonbank products across income categories. 

Finally, he noted that the Survey has existed since 2009, during 

which time the economy has had steady economic growth and noted 

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October 27, 2022 

changes may occur in the next survey where the economic outlook 

is uncertain. 

Committee members also discussed specific results of the 

survey and asked about certain components of the Survey, with 

some suggesting ways to improve the Survey in the future. 

Mr. Ernst asked the group what kind of opportunities they 

see where they could bring people into the financial system. 

Several members responded that the education system, foster 

system, and first or new employment are good opportunities. 

Acting Chairman Gruenberg thanked the panelists for their 

thoughts and suggestions. 

 The meeting then recessed from 11:54 a.m. to 1:36 p.m. 

Members Roundtable 

 Ms. Ortiz next introduced the members’ roundtable 

discussion. Ms. Ortiz explained that the members’ roundtable 

provides an opportunity for the members to share information 

about what is happening in their organizations and in the 

communities that they serve. After providing this brief 

introduction, Ms. Ortiz then turned the meeting over to the 

Committee members for their individual updates. The Committee 

members discussed a broad range of topics, including the 

following: wealth gaps and disparities by race; financial health 

disparities across various groups, credit access challenges, and 

asset building issues among various segments of the population. 

One member discussed multiple economic challenges facing 

recently arrived immigrants. Another member focused his 

discussion on issues related to home equity stripping. Other 

members discussed the benefits of certain types of bank accounts 

including Bank On accounts, non-custodial accounts and ABLE 

accounts. Members also discussed a number of other topics 

including income and expense volatility, barriers to employment 

for persons with a disability, and responses to scams targeting 

bank customers. Additionally, each member provided an update on 

current happenings and work streams occurring at their 

organizations. 

Maintaining Confidence in Banks and Deposit Insurance

 Ms. Ortiz introduced Luke Brown, Associate Director, 

Supervisory Policy, Policy and Research Branch, DCP, to moderate 

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October 27, 2022 

a panel presentation on maintaining confidence in banks and 

deposit insurance. Mr. Brown was joined by fellow panelists 

Meron Wondwosen, Acting Chief, Supervisory Policy Section, 

Policy and Research Branch, DCP; Edward Hof, Senior Policy 

Analyst, Supervisory Policy Section, Policy and Research Branch, 

DCP, and Michael Farrell, Counsel, Consumer Enforcement Unit, 

Enforcement Section, Supervision, Legislation, and Enforcement 

Branch, Legal Division. 

 Mr. Brown began by noting that a recurring theme throughout 

the meeting was the issue of trust in banking systems, which 

impacts the unbanked and underbanked in their financial 

decisions. Mr. Brown emphasized the importance of consumers 

being able to clearly understand when they are dealing with a 

bank and where funds are protected by the FDIC's deposit 

insurance coverage. During the presentation, Mr. Brown and the 

panelists described the FDIC's mission and authority and the 

types of potential misrepresentations the FDIC has seen. The 

panelists also explained how misrepresentations can confuse 

consumers and cause consumer harm as well as how the FDIC has 

responded to these risks. The panelists closed the presentation 

by providing an overview of some of the public information that 

the FDIC has made available so that consumers can better 

understand deposit insurance. 

 Following the presentation, committee members provided some 

comments and asked a number of questions. Topics discussed 

included: how the structure of a bank account impacts deposit 

insurance coverage; consideration of possible deposit insurance 

disclosure requirements for entities that are not insured by the 

FDIC; restrictions on who can use the logo itself versus the 

words indicating coverage; the number of the misrepresentation 

complaints that the FDIC has received; and the application of 

pass-through deposit insurance in relation to bank failures. Mr. 

Brown responded that the FDIC is significantly concerned with 

what language is used to communicate with consumers about 

deposit insurance coverage from a bank or from a third-party. 

He also observed that the Federal Deposit Insurance Coverage Act 

provides the FDIC with authority with respect to the logo, FDIC 

associated terms and images. 

 Members also provided suggestions in response to the 

presentation, including that the FDIC consider doing focus 

group work with consumers to better understand some of the 

misrepresentation issues; clarification regarding who is 

responsible when a consumer is targeted by scammers; and 

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October 27, 2022 

improved collaboration amongst various responsible government 

entities to better educate and protect consumers. 

Closing Remarks

 Acting Chairman Gruenberg delivered closing comments on the 

content of the final presentation and thanked the members and 

the staff for their contributions to the meeting. 

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned 

at 3:55 p.m. 

 ____________________________________ 

 Debra A. Decker 

 Deputy Executive Secretary 

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 

And Committee Management Officer 

FDIC Advisory Committee on Economic 

Inclusion 

603
Minutes

of

The Meeting of the FDIC Advisory Committee on Economic Inclusion

of the

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation

Held in the Board Room

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Building

Washington, D.C.

Open to Public Observation via Webcast

October 27, 2022 – 9:00 A.M.

I hereby certify that, to the best of my knowledge, the attached minutes are accurate and 

complete.

________________________________

Martin J. Gruenberg

Chairman

Board of Directors

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation