EXHIBIT D

Case 5:17-cv-00551-LHK Document 387-4 Filed 01/24/20 Page 1 of 15
Page 1 ·1· · · · · · · ·UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

·2· · · · · · · NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

·3· · · · · · · · · · ·SAN JOSE DIVISION

·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--

·5· ·CHRISTINA GRACE AND KEN POTTER,

· · ·Individually and on Behalf of All· Case No.

·6· ·Others Similarly Situated,

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 5:17-cv-00551-LHK-NC

·7· · · · · · · · · · ·Plaintiffs,

· · ·vs.

·8

· · ·APPLE, INC.

·9

· · · · · · · · · · · ·Defendant.

10· ·________________________________/

11

12

13· · · · ·HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY

14· · · · · · · · · VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF

15· · · · · · · · · ·DALLAS BLAKE DE ATLEY

16· · · · · · · · ·WEDNESDAY, APRIL 18, 2018

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19· ·Reported by:· LUCY CARRILLO-GRUBBS, CSR #6766

· · · · · · · · · ·RPR-RMR-CRR-RPR-CCRR

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GRACE: DALLAS BLAKE DE ATLEY - HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL/ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY

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Case 5:17-cv-00551-LHK Document 387-4 Filed 01/24/20 Page 2 of 15
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·1· · · ·BE IT REMEMBERED that on WEDNESDAY, APRIL 18,

·2· ·2018, commencing at the hour of 8:58 a.m. in the

·3· ·law offices of KIRKLAND & ELLIS, 3330 Hillview

·4· ·Avenue, Palo Alto, California, before me, LUCY

·5· ·CARRILLO-GRUBBS, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in

·6· ·and for the State of California, personally

·7· ·appeared

·8· · · · · · · · ·DALLAS BLAKE DE ATLEY

·9· ·called as a witness herein, who, having been duly

10· ·sworn, was thereupon examined and interrogated as

11· ·hereinafter set forth.

12· · · · · · · · · · · ·---oOo---

13· · · ·VIDEOTAPE OPERATOR:· Good morning.· We're now

14· ·going on the video record.· Today is April 18,

15· ·2018.· The time is approximately 8:57 a.m.

16· · · · · ·The location is 3330 Hillview Avenue, Palo

17· ·Alto, California.· My name is Mariah Nieves.· I'm

18· ·the video specialist representing HG Litigation

19· ·Services.

20· · · · · ·The civil action number is

21· ·5:17-cv-00551-LHK NC in the matter of Christina and

22· ·Ken Potter versus Apple, Inc., and the deponent is

23· ·Dallas De Atley.

24· · · · · ·The video deposition is requested by the

25· ·plaintiffs' counsel -- counsel.

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·1· · · · · ·Will counsel please identify themselves

·2· ·for the record.

·3· · · ·ATTORNEY CURRY:· Austin Curry for plaintiffs.

·4· ·With me is Warren McCarty and Jill Manning.· Warren

·5· ·McCarty and I are with Caldwell Cassady & Curry and

·6· ·Ms. Manning is with Steyer Lowenthal.

·7· · · ·ATTORNEY PILMER:· Alex Pilmer with Kirkland &

·8· ·Ellis on behalf of Apple.· Present also is Gabe

·9· ·Zeldin from Apple.

10· · · ·VIDEOTAPE OPERATOR:· Thank you.

11· · · · · ·Will the court reporter please swear in

12· ·the witness.

13· · · · · · · · ·DALLAS BLAKE DE ATLEY,

14· · having been first duly sworn by the Reporter to

15· · tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but

16· · · · · · the truth, testified as follows:

17· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-o18· · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION

19· · · ·BY ATTORNEY CURRY:

20· · · ·Q.· Good morning.

21· · · ·A.· Good morning.

22· · · ·Q.· Please state your name and address for the

23· ·record.

24· · · ·A.· My name is Dallas Blake De Atley.· My

25· ·address is , that's in

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·1· ·morning and completed sometime around 3:00 in the

·2· ·afternoon.

·3· · · ·Q.· And were the people you met with

·4· ·Mr. Pilmer and Mr. Zeldin?

·5· · · ·A.· Yes, the two gentlemen sitting to my left

·6· ·today, I met with yesterday.

·7· · · ·Q.· Anyone else?

·8· · · ·A.· I don't believe so, no.

·9· · · ·Q.· And when did you speak with Mr. Knight?

10· · · ·A.· I spoke with Mr. Knight last week.

11· · · ·Q.· And was that on the phone or in person or

12· ·through some other means?

13· · · ·A.· I spoke with Mr. Knight on the phone.

14· · · ·Q.· How long was that call?

15· · · ·A.· I think that call was a few minutes.

16· · · ·Q.· Who all was on that call?

17· · · ·A.· I believe it was Mr. Knight and myself and

18· ·counsel to my left.· I don't recall who else was on

19· ·the call.

20· · · ·Q.· And what did you speak with Mr. Knight

21· ·about in your call with him?

22· · · ·A.· I asked Mr. Knight about an e-mail that he

23· ·had sent.

24· · · ·Q.· And what was your question to Mr. Knight?

25· · · ·A.· If I remember, I wanted to understand what

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·1· ·Mr. Knight had referred to in his e-mail about --

·2· · · ·Q.· Excellent exec visibility?

·3· · · ·A.· Yes, that was the phrase, yes.

·4· · · ·Q.· And what was Mr. Knight's response to you?

·5· · · ·A.· Mr. Knight believed that that was in

·6· ·reference to a conversation he had with Patrick

·7· ·Gates.

·8· · · ·Q.· Was Mr. Knight telling you that the exec

·9· ·visibility referred to Mr. Gates in that e-mail?

10· · · ·A.· Mr. Knight believed that Patrick Gates had

11· ·updated other people on the issue at hand.

12· · · ·Q.· I want to make sure I understand this.

13· · · · · ·You asked Mr. Knight about an e-mail in

14· ·which he had written about excellent exec

15· ·visibility, correct?

16· · · ·A.· If I remember correctly, the e-mail itself

17· ·was written by David Biderman.

18· · · ·Q.· I see.

19· · · · · ·So Mr. Knight hadn't written the -- the

20· ·phrase "excellent exec visibility"?

21· · · ·A.· I would have to look at the e-mail again

22· ·to see if that had been a quote Mr. Biderman made

23· ·of another e-mail Mr. Knight made.· I cannot

24· ·remember the exact syntax.

25· · · ·Q.· And who is Mr. Biderman?

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·1· · · ·A.· David Biderman is an engineer at Apple.

·2· · · ·Q.· Do you know his job title?

·3· · · ·A.· I do not know his exact job title.

·4· · · ·Q.· So in any event, regardless of who wrote

·5· ·the phrase "excellent exec visibility," is it true

·6· ·that you asked Mr. Knight about that e-mail and

·7· ·Mr. Knight indicated that what was being referred

·8· ·to was that Mr. Patrick Gates had spoken with

·9· ·executives at Apple?

10· · · ·A.· I don't know if Mr. Gates directly spoke

11· ·with executives or communicated with them via

12· ·e-mail or another method.

13· · · ·Q.· Regardless of the method of communication,

14· ·is it your understanding that in the e-mail that's

15· ·referring to excellent exec visibility, that is

16· ·referencing Mr. Knight's understanding that Patrick

17· ·Gates had spoken with or communicated with in some

18· ·form to executives at Apple?

19· · · ·ATTORNEY PILMER:· I'll object to the form.

20· · · · · ·But you can answer.

21· · · ·THE WITNESS:· It is my understanding that

22· ·Mr. Knight believed that Patrick Gates had

23· ·communicated with executives about the issue.

24· · · ·BY ATTORNEY CURRY:

25· · · ·Q.· Do you know which executives?

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·1· · · ·A.· I do not know which specific executives

·2· ·Patrick may have been communicating with.

·3· · · ·Q.· Did you look at any documents in

·4· ·preparation for your deposition today?

·5· · · ·A.· I did review documents in preparation for

·6· ·my deposition today.

·7· · · ·Q.· Which documents?

·8· · · ·A.· I do not recall the specific names or

·9· ·identifiers of the documents themselves.

10· · · ·Q.· What do the documents that you reviewed

11· ·generally relate to?

12· · · ·A.· The documents, in general, were e-mails.

13· · · ·Q.· How many documents did you review in

14· ·preparation for your deposition today?

15· · · ·A.· I don't remember the exact number of

16· ·documents.· I know it was more than three, I think

17· ·less than ten, but I don't remember the exact

18· ·number.

19· · · ·Q.· And they were all e-mails?

20· · · ·A.· I believe most of the documents were

21· ·e-mails.· I don't know exactly which ones may not

22· ·have been an e-mail.

23· · · ·Q.· And what do the e-mails you refer to or

24· ·relate to that you reviewed in preparation for your

25· ·deposition today?

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Page 100

·1· ·me just restart, then.

·2· · · ·Q.· There was a period of time, probably,

·3· ·what, June of 2013 when device certificates start

·4· ·expiring, correct?

·5· · · ·A.· I don't recall the original expiration

·6· ·dates that we were made aware of when we were

·7· ·investigating the FaceTime call failures in October

·8· ·of 2013.

·9· · · ·Q.· Okay.

10· · · · · ·Well, let's just jump to October 2013.· At

11· ·that time, you're saying that that was the first

12· ·time you understood that the expiration of device

13· ·certificates was causing FaceTime calls to fail,

14· ·correct?

15· · · ·A.· I believe that is the time when I

16· ·realized, yes, the expiration of the device

17· ·certificate was affecting FaceTime calls, yeah.

18· · · ·Q.· And as part of that investigation in

19· ·October of 2013, you also realized that the Apple

20· ·iPhone device CA was going to expire, and that was

21· ·going to cause a problem for FaceTime as well,

22· ·correct?

23· · · ·A.· I don't remember if that was the first

24· ·time we recognized that the iPhone device CA was

25· ·going to expire.· But it did come up during the

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Page 101

·1· ·subsequent investigations into the FaceTime call

·2· ·failures.

·3· · · ·Q.· How long did those subsequent

·4· ·investigations take place after October of 2013?

·5· · · ·A.· The investigations into -- into which

·6· ·issue?

·7· · · ·Q.· The expiration of the Apple iPhone device

·8· ·CA.

·9· · · ·A.· Well, from that point in October until the

10· ·expiration itself occurred the next year, we were

11· ·discussing the expiration of the iPhone device CA.

12· · · ·Q.· Who was involved in those discussions?

13· · · ·A.· The primary discussions that I had were on

14· ·my team with a manager who reported to me named

15· ·Jacques Vidrine.

16· · · ·Q.· Who else?

17· · · ·A.· Another manager who reported to me was

18· ·Andrew Whalley.

19· · · ·Q.· W-h-a-l-l-e-y?

20· · · ·A.· Yes.

21· · · ·Q.· Who else?

22· · · ·A.· I believe we had conversations with Erik

23· ·Neuenschwander.· I do not --

24· · · ·ATTORNEY PILMER:· Spelled just like it sounds.

25· · · ·ATTORNEY CURRY:· I made that same joke like

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·1· ·would be about a year away from that point, when

·2· ·the iPhone device CA would expire.

·3· · · ·Q.· And you realized this, but who else

·4· ·realized this in February of 2013 that the Apple

·5· ·iPhone device CA certificate was going to expire in

·6· ·April of 2014?

·7· · · ·A.· I believe it was brought to our attention

·8· ·by the PKI services team or an engineer reporting

·9· ·to Erik Neuenschwander's team.

10· · · ·Q.· So what actual people had awareness at

11· ·that time in February 2013 that the Apple iPhone

12· ·device CA was going to expire?

13· · · ·A.· At that time it would have been myself and

14· ·Mr. Whalley and Mr. Vidrine and the engineers from

15· ·the PKI services team, and Erik Neuenschwander's

16· ·team.

17· · · ·Q.· What is Erik Neuenschwander's team?

18· · · ·A.· At that time he managed a team that

19· ·focused on privacy and product security.

20· · · ·Q.· At that time was Mr. Neuenschwander's team

21· ·all based out of Cupertino?

22· · · ·A.· I believe most of his team was based out

23· ·of Cupertino.· I don't know if all of them were

24· ·based out of Cupertino.

25· · · ·Q.· Who were the engineers at PKI services in

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Page 169

·1· · · ·A.· Could you repeat your previous question as

·2· ·a result?

·3· · · ·Q.· I will, and I'll restate it.

·4· · · · · ·If you were to compile a list of the most

·5· ·responsive and most involved people in responding

·6· ·to the April 16th, 2014 Apple iPhone device CA

·7· ·expiration, who would be on your list?

·8· · · ·ATTORNEY PILMER:· Same objections, form and

·9· ·scope.

10· · · ·THE WITNESS:· If I were to compile a list of

11· ·the people who responded to the expiration of the

12· ·iPhone device CA in April of 2014, I would start

13· ·with myself, Jacques Vidrine, and Andrew Whalley.

14· · · ·BY ATTORNEY CURRY:

15· · · ·Q.· Anyone else?

16· · · ·A.· I would include Erik Neuenschwander.

17· · · ·Q.· You're just doing that to mess with the

18· ·court reporter.

19· · · · · ·Anyone else?

20· · · ·A.· At that --

21· · · ·ATTORNEY PILMER:· Same objections.

22· · · ·THE WITNESS:· -- point I would have to go look

23· ·at my communications regarding that issue and see

24· ·whom else I was communicating with.

25· · · ·ATTORNEY CURRY:· Okay.

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·1· · · ·THE WITNESS:· I don't recall other features

·2· ·that I've worked with Patrick on in particular.

·3· · · ·BY ATTORNEY CURRY:

·4· · · ·Q.· Did you ever discuss the certificates

·5· ·expiring with Mr. Gates?

·6· · · ·A.· If I recall, we had a conversation around

·7· ·the time the iPhone device CA expired in April of

·8· ·2014.

·9· · · ·Q.· What was the nature of that conversation

10· ·that you had with Mr. Gates?

11· · · ·A.· If I remember, I wanted to double-check

12· ·that the FaceTime call failures that were being

13· ·reported at that time were related to users who had

14· ·not upgraded to newer versions of iOS, and that we

15· ·weren't looking at a different issue we weren't

16· ·aware of.

17· · · ·Q.· And how did you communicate with Mr. Gates

18· ·for that discussion?

19· · · ·A.· I don't recall if that conversation was

20· ·specifically in e-mail or iMessage.

21· · · ·Q.· And what did Mr. Gates respond to you?

22· · · ·A.· I believe he confirmed that it was not a

23· ·different issue than the one we had expected.

24· · · ·Q.· Do you have a list of deposition topics,

25· ·can you find that in your pile?

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Page 231

·1· · · ·A.· Yes.

·2· · · ·Q.· Can you tell us, please, who those

·3· ·executives were and what you understand that to

·4· ·mean?

·5· · · ·A.· In the context of our conversation with

·6· ·Kurt, he was referring to a conversation that

·7· ·Patrick Gates had with Craig Federighi, Eddy Cue

·8· ·and Greg Joswiak.

·9· · · ·Q.· And are those three gentlemen the

10· ·executives that you understood that e-mail to be

11· ·referring to?

12· · · ·A.· Based on my conversation with Kurt, yes.

13· · · ·ATTORNEY PILMER:· Okay, I have no further

14· ·questions.

15· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-o16· · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION

17· · · ·BY ATTORNEY CURRY:

18· · · ·Q.· Did Mr. Knight tell you what was discussed

19· ·between Patrick Gates and Craig Federighi, Eddy Cue

20· ·and Joswiak?

21· · · ·A.· No, I don't believe he did.

22· · · ·Q.· Did you ask him?

23· · · ·A.· I don't recall asking him, no.

24· · · ·ATTORNEY CURRY:· Okay.· Subject to my other

25· ·comments about leaving the deposition open, I have

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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

I certify that the foregoing proceedings in the 

within-entitled cause were reported at the time and 

place therein named; that said proceedings were 

reported by me, a duly Certified Shorthand Reporter 

of the State of California, and were thereafter 

transcribed into typewriting

I further certify that I am not of counsel 

or attorney for either or any of the parties to 

said cause of action, nor in any way interested in 

the outcome of the cause named in said cause of 

action.

 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 

this 23rd day of April, 2018.

Witness did not request to read and sign. 

 

 

 LUCY CARRILLO-GRUBBS, CRP, CSR 

 Certified Shorthand Reporter 

 Certificate No. 6766 

 Dallas: 69

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