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01:34PM

UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

SAN JOSE DIVISION

FINJAN, INC.,

PLAINTIFF,

VS.

CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.,

DEFENDANT.

CASE NO. CV-17-0072-BLF

SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA

APRIL 30, 2020

PAGES 1 - 124

TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONIC PROCEEDINGS

BEFORE THE HONORABLE BETH LABSON FREEMAN

UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

A-P-P-E-A-R-A-N-C-E-S (TELEPHONICALLY)

FOR THE PLAINTIFF: FISH & RICHARDSON P.C.

BY: JUANITA R. BROOKS

MEGAN A. CHACON

ROGER A. DENNING

KELLY N. WILLIAMS

12390 EL CAMINO REAL

SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 92130-2081

BY: AAMIR A. KAZI

1180 PEACHTREE ST

21ST FLOOR

ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30309

(APPEARANCES CONTINUED ON THE NEXT PAGE.)

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: IRENE L. RODRIGUEZ, CSR, RMR, CRR

CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074

PROCEEDINGS RECORDED BY MECHANICAL STENOGRAPHY,

TRANSCRIPT PRODUCED WITH COMPUTER.

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UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS

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A P P E A R A N C E S: (CONT'D)

FOR THE DEFENDANT: DUANE MORRIS LLP

BY: LOUIS N. JAMESON

ALICE E. SNEDEKER

DAVID C. DOTSON

ROBIN L. MCGRATH

1075 PEACHTREE STREET, N.E.

SUITE 2000

ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30309-3448

BY: MATTHEW C. GAUDET

DUANE MORRIS - ATLANTA

1180 WEST PEACHTREE ST

SUITE 700

ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30309-3448

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UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS

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OUT.

THE OTHER THING THAT YOU HAVE DONE IS THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN

EACH OTHER A CHART OF YOUR EXHIBITS AND THEN THE OBJECTIONS TO

THEM. I DON'T GO THROUGH IT AND JUST RULE ON THEM BECAUSE MOST

OF THOSE EXHIBITS WILL NEVER BE ADMITTED. SO I JUST WANT YOU

TO KNOW THAT YOU WON'T GET A RULING BASED ON THAT CHART.

THAT'S A CHART FOR YOU, NOT FOR ME, AND IF YOU HAVE OBJECTIONS

TO THE EXHIBITS, SOME YOU'LL OBJECT WHEN THE EXHIBIT IS

OFFERED, OTHERS YOU MAY BRING ON THE MORNING AT 8:30, BUT I

WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I DON'T TAKE THAT AS A DOCUMENT THAT I

HAVE TO CHECK OFF "SUSTAINED" AND "OVERRULED" ON THE

OBJECTIONS.

OKAY.

MR. GAUDET: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS MATT GAUDET. COULD

I ASK JUST A COUPLE OF FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS ON THOSE?

THE COURT: YES, SURE.

MR. GAUDET: WITH RESPECT TO THE THREE-PAGE

SUBMISSIONS THAT WOULD BE IN BY 5:00 P.M., WOULD THE IDEA BE

THAT BOTH SIDES, WHATEVER THE COMPETING VIEWS ARE, BOTH SIDES

WOULD PUT IN THEIR THREE PAGES OR IS IT A COMMON --

THE COURT: THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. I'VE

ACTUALLY NEVER HAD ANYTHING IN WRITING FROM THE OPPOSING SIDE.

IT'S USUALLY THE -- BECAUSE THERE'S NO TIME TO DO IT REALLY.

AS I SAY, I DON'T REQUIRE ANYTHING IN WRITING. YOU CAN

COME IN AND DO IT ORALLY. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT I FOUND IS

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UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS

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TOGETHER, AND I'M HAMPERED BY NOT HAVING IT. SO I'M GOING TO

WAIT ON THAT.

SO THE REMAINDER OF THIS MOTION WILL BE WITHDRAWN.

IT LOOKED LIKE THE '154 WAS MOOT ANYWAY BASED ON MY

SUMMARY JUDGMENT RULING. AND THEN ON THE '633 AND THE '780,

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS LATER, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO RULE ON

THOSE.

OKAY. THAT THEN COMPLETES THE PLAINTIFF'S MOTIONS.

LET'S TAKE A TEN MINUTE BREAK AND COME BACK AT 3:20, AND

THEN WE'LL FINISH UP WITH THE CISCO ONES, OKAY?

MR. JAMESON: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

(RECESS FROM 3:10 P.M. UNTIL 3:19 P.M.)

THE COURT: I THINK WE HAVE EVERYONE, AND WE CAN GET

STARTED AGAIN. SO WE'LL TURN TO CISCO'S MOTIONS. I THINK

ACTUALLY THE HARDER ONES ARE OUT OF OUR WAY. AT LEAST THAT'S

THE WAY IT SEEMED TO ME.

OKAY. SO CISCO'S IN LIMINE MOTION NUMBER 1 IS TO EXCLUDE

PHIL HARTSTEIN'S TESTIMONY REGARDING FINJAN'S CORPORATE HISTORY

AS HEARSAY.

LET ME JUST CUT THROUGH THIS A LITTLE BIT. I APPRECIATE

THAT MR. HARTSTEIN MIGHT VEER INTO INADMISSIBLE TESTIMONY BASED

ON HEARSAY, BUT, FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GIVE ANY

LIMITATION ON HIS TESTIMONY UNTIL I HEAR IT.

IT WILL DEPEND ON HOW THE QUESTION IS ASKED, IT WILL

DEPEND ON THE BASIS FOR HIS ANSWER.

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UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS

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WHAT HE KNOWS FROM 2013 TO THE PRESENT IS -- BUILDS ON THE

SHOULDERS OF EVERYTHING THAT CAME BEFORE HIM AND ISSUES LIKE

THE STRENGTH OF THE PATENT ARE THINGS THAT HE'S BEEN LIVING

WITH FOR YEARS, MATTERS THAT HE KNOWS FROM TALKING TO FORMER

CEO'S NOT SO MUCH. THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE TRADITIONAL HEARSAY.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT WE CAN DISCUSS

HERE OTHER THAN I NEED TO DEFER RULING ON THIS.

SO, MR. GAUDET, WHO ON YOUR TEAM WAS TAKING THE LEAD ON

THIS ONE?

MR. GAUDET: YOUR HONOR, MS. MCGRATH WAS TAKING THE

LEAD, BUT I THINK IN THE INTEREST OF TIME WE CAN SAY THAT WE

UNDERSTAND YOUR RULING AND THAT MAKES SENSE.

THE COURT: OKAY. AND HAVING SEEN MR. HARTSTEIN

TESTIFY A FEW TIMES, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD ONLY WANT

HIM TO TESTIFY FOR A SHORT TIME, HE'S A VERY NICE MAN.

MR. GAUDET: I HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE SITTING WITH

HIM FOR A DAY AT HIS DEPOSITION. HE IS CHARMING, THERE'S NO

DOUBT ABOUT IT.

THE COURT: AND EVERY COMPANY NEEDS TO TELL ITS

ORIGINATION STORY IN SOME WAY. YOU MAY THINK IT'S AN

ORIGINATION MYTH, BUT WE WILL STICK TO THE STORY.

I'VE HEARD A LOT OF GOOD ONES OVER THE YEARS, AND IT CAN

BE THE JURY'S FAVORITE PART OF THE TRIAL, MAINLY BECAUSE THEY

CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.

OKAY. SO LET'S GO ON TO NUMBER 2, AND THIS IS CISCO'S

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UNITED STATES COURT REPORTERS

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

I, THE UNDERSIGNED OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER OF THE UNITED

STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA,

280 SOUTH FIRST STREET, SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA, DO HEREBY

CERTIFY:

THAT THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT, CERTIFICATE INCLUSIVE, IS

A CORRECT TRANSCRIPT FROM THE RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS IN THE

ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER.

______________________________

IRENE RODRIGUEZ, CSR, RMR, CRR

CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074

DATED: MAY 5, 2020

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