IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS

DALLAS DIVISION

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) CAUSE NO. 3:04-CR-240-P

 (

vs. )

( OCTOBER 2, 2008 

) DALLAS, TEXAS 

HOLY LAND FOUNDATION, ET AL ( 9:00 A.M.

______________________________________________________________

VOLUME 12 OF 37

______________________________________________________________

STATEMENT OF FACTS 

BEFORE THE HONORABLE JORGE A. SOLIS

UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

and a jury

______________________________________________________________

A P P E A R A N C E S

 FOR THE GOVERNMENT: UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

 1100 COMMERCE, 3RD FLOOR 

 DALLAS, TEXAS 75242

 BY: MR. JIM JACKS

 MR. BARRY JONAS

 MS. ELIZABETH SHAPIRO

FOR THE DEFENDANT: FREEDMAN, BOYD, HOLLANDER, 

(SHUKRI ABU BAKER) GOLDBERG & IVES, P.A. 

 20 FIRST PLAZA, SUITE 700 

 ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO 87102 

 BY: MS. NANCY HOLLANDER

 MS. TERESA DUNCAN

Shawn M. McRoberts, RMR, CRR

Federal Official Court Reporter

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FOR THE DEFENDANT: LAW OFFICE OF JOSHUA L. DRATEL

(MOHAMMAD EL-MEZAIN) 14 WALL STREET, 28TH FLOOR

 NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10005

 BY: MR. JOSHUA DRATEL

 MR. AARON J. MYSLIWIEC

FOR THE DEFENDANT: LAW OFFICE OF MARLO P. CADEDDU

(MUFID ABDULQADER) 3232 McKINNEY AVENUE, SUITE 700

 DALLAS, TEXAS 75204

 BY: MS. MARLO P. CADEDDU

FOR THE DEFENDANT: LAW OFFICE OF LINDA MORENO

(GHASSAN ELASHI) P.O. BOX 10985

 TAMPA, FLORIDA 33679

 BY: MS. LINDA MORENO

 JONES DAY

 555 CALIFORNIA ST., 26TH FLOOR

 SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94104

 BY: MR. JOHN D. CLINE

FOR THE DEFENDANT: WESTFALL, PLATT & CUTRER

(ABDULRAHAM ODEH) ONE SUMMIT AVENUE, SUITE 910

 FORT WORTH, TEXAS 76102

 BY: MR. GREG WESTFALL

COURT'S LAW CLERK: MS. JENNIFER HELMS

 1100 COMMERCE, RM. 1654

 DALLAS, TEXAS 75242

COURT COORDINATOR: MS. BRENDA WEBB

 1100 COMMERCE, RM. 1654

 DALLAS, TEXAS 75242

 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: SHAWN M. McROBERTS, RMR, CRR

 1100 COMMERCE STREET, RM. 1654

 DALLAS, TEXAS 75242

 (214) 753-2349 

Shawn M. McRoberts, RMR, CRR

Federal Official Court Reporter

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INDEX

EXAMINATION

Witness Name Page

LARA BURNS

Direct By MR. JONAS............................................. 6

Government's Exhibits

Government's Exhibits Page

Mushtaha Search No. 9 Admitted into Evidence 22

Mushtaha Search No. 2, 7 Admitted into Evidence 24

Elbarasse Search No. 32 Admitted into Evidence 24

HLF Search No. 127 Admitted into Evidence 27

HLF Search No. 14 Admitted into Evidence 29

HLF Search No. 114 Admitted into Evidence 37

HLF Search No. 16 Admitted into Evidence 40

HLF Search No. 112 Admitted into Evidence 41

Abdulqader Wiretap 1, 1-A Admitted into Evidence 43

Baker Wiretap No. 6, 6-A Admitted into Evidence 47

Abdulqader Wiretap No. 2, 2-A Admitted into Evidence 48

AMEX No. 2 Admitted into Evidence 49

HLF Search No. 15 Admitted into Evidence 52

HLF Search No. 17-20 Admitted into Evidence 53

Baker Wiretap No. 7, 7-A Admitted into Evidence 56

HLF Search No. 21-23, 142-147 Admitted into Evidence 60

Demonstrative No. 19 Admitted into Evidence 61

HLF Search No. 124 Admitted into Evidence 67

Mushtaha Search No. 15 Admitted into Evidence 70

HLF Search No. 109 Admitted into Evidence 74

InfoCom Search NO. 7-9 Admitted into Evidence 77

InfoCom Search No. 10 Admitted into Evidence 80

HLF Search No. 25 Admitted into Evidence 84

HLF Search No. 93 Admitted into Evidence 86

HLF Search No. 94 Admitted into Evidence 87

HLF Search No. 148 Admitted into Evidence 88

InfoCom Search No. 72 Admitted into Evidence 91

El Mezain Wiretap No. 1 Admitted into Evidence 93

HLF Search No. 87 Admitted into Evidence 107

El Mezain Wiretap 4, 4-A Admitted into Evidence 113

El Mezain Wiretap No. 12, 12-A Admitted into Evidence 131

HLF Bank Account No. 6 Admitted into Evidence 132

Bank Secrecy Form Admitted into Evidence 134

HLF Search No. 28 Admitted into Evidence 139

El Mezain Wiretap No. 7 Admitted into Evidence 141

HLF Search No. 29 Admitted into Evidence 143

HLF Search No. 30 Admitted into Evidence 147

HLF Search No. 31 Admitted into Evidence 149

HLF Search No. 32 Admitted into Evidence 151

El Mezain Wiretap No. 7-A Admitted into Evidence 151

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Baker Wiretap No. 37, 37-A Admitted into Evidence 152

InfoCom Search No. 73 Admitted into Evidence 155

Baker Wiretap No. 10, 10-A Admitted into Evidence 156

HLF Bank Account No. 1 Admitted into Evidence 156

HLF Search No. 11, 12 Admitted into Evidence 157

Islamic Relief Account No. 1 Admitted into Evidence 157

HLF Search No. 111 Admitted into Evidence 158

HLF Search No. 125 Admitted into Evidence 158

Mushtaha Search No. 8 Admitted into Evidence 158

HLF Search No. 49 Admitted into Evidence 158

HLF Foreign Account No. 2 Admitted into Evidence 159

HLF Foreign Account No. 6 Admitted into Evidence 159

HLF Search No. 62 Admitted into Evidence 159

HLF Search No. 76 Admitted into Evidence 159

HLF Search No. 84 Admitted into Evidence 160

HLF Search No. 83 Admitted into Evidence 160

HLF Search No. 82 Admitted into Evidence 160

HLF Search No. 81 Admitted into Evidence 160

HLF Search No. 77 Admitted into Evidence 161

HLF Search No. 75 Admitted into Evidence 161

HLF Search No. 70 Admitted into Evidence 161

HLF Search No. 113 Admitted into Evidence 162

HLF Search No. 105 Admitted into Evidence 162

HLF Search No. 36 Admitted into Evidence 162

InfoCom Search No. 31 Admitted into Evidence 163

InfoCom Search No. 47 Admitted into Evidence 163

InfoCom Search No. 58-64 Admitted into Evidence 163

InfoCom Search No. 65 Admitted into Evidence 164

InfoCom Search No. 79 Admitted into Evidence 164

Elbarasse Search No. 22 Admitted into Evidence 164

Baker Wiretap No. 13 Admitted into Evidence 165

Baker Wiretap No. 34, 34-A Admitted into Evidence 165

Baker Wiretap No. 38, 38-A Admitted into Evidence 165

El Mezin Wiretap No. 13, 13-A Admitted into Evidence 165

Payments to IC/Hebron Admitted into Evidence 167

Chart Payments to IC/Hebron Admitted into Evidence 168

InfoCom Search No. 77 Admitted into Evidence 172

HLF Search No. 48 Admitted into Evidence 172

HLF Foreign Account No. 2 Admitted into Evidence 173

InfoCom Search No. 19 Admitted into Evidence 173

HLF Search No. 41 Admitted into Evidence 173

InfoCom Search No. 21 Admitted into Evidence 173

Islamic Association of Gaza Acct. Admitted into Evidence 174

HLF Search No. 43 Admitted into Evidence 174

InfoCom Search No. 57 Admitted into Evidence 174

HLF Search No. 33 Admitted into Evidence 174

InfoCom Search No. 13 Admitted into Evidence 174

InfoCom Search No. 74 Admitted into Evidence 175

HLF Search No. 45 Admitted into Evidence 175

HLF Search NO. 35 Admitted into Evidence 176

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InfoCom Search No. 14 Admitted into Evidence 176

Jenin Zakat Account No. 1, 3 Admitted into Evidence 177

HLF Search No. 37 Admitted into Evidence 177

InfoCom Search No. 15 Admitted into Evidence 177

Nablus Zakat Account No. 1, 2 Admitted into Evidence 177

Tulkarem Zakat Account No. 1 Admitted into Evidence 177

InfoCom Search No. 18 Admitted into Evidence 178

Qalqilia Zakat Account No. 3 Admitted into Evidence 178

HLF Search No. 40 Admitted into Evidence 178

HLF Search No. 39 Admitted into Evidence 178

HLF Search No. 38 Admitted into Evidence 179

InfoCom Search No. 16 Admitted into Evidence 179

InfoCom Search No. 17 Admitted into Evidence 179

Tulkarem Zakat Account No. 3 Admitted into Evidence 179

Payments to Nabulus Zakat Comm. Admitted into Evidence 193

Payments to Tulkarem Zakat Com. Admitted into Evidence 199

Payments to Jenin Zakat Comm. Admitted into Evidence 202

Payments to Ramallah Zakat Com. Admitted into Evidence 205

Payments to Qalqilia Zakat Comm. Admitted into Evidence 206

Payments to Islamic Culture and Sc Admitted into Evidence 206

Payments to Islamic Society of Gaz Admitted into Evidence 208

Payments to Bethlehem Orphan So Admitted into Evidence 209

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Federal Official Court Reporter

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THE COURT: Good morning. 

Mr. Jonas? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, sir. Your Honor, I am about to 

start with Agent Burns the issues involving Abdullah Azzam so 

I need a ruling whether we can get into.

THE COURT: I am overruling the objections and you 

can get into that.

Anything else before we get started? 

MS. HOLLANDER: Ms. Duncan is not here today. 

THE COURT: Sure. That is fine.

Go ahead and bring in the jury. 

(Whereupon, the jury entered the courtroom.)

THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, good 

morning. We are ready to proceed.

Mr. Jonas? 

MR. JONAS: Thank you, sir.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Good morning, Agent Burns. 

A. Good morning.

Q. How do you feel this morning?

A. Better, thanks.

Q. If you recall, when we broke on Tuesday we were looking 

at these IAP magazines called Illa Falistine Do you remember 

that?

A. I do.

MR. JONAS: And just to re refresh our recollection, 

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if we can pull up the last one that we looked at, Illa 

Falistine 5, page 5. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see that, Agent Burns?

A. I do.

Q. What does this page depict?

A. This is an Illa Falistine, which is a publication by the 

Islamic Association for Palestine, the IAP and in it this page 

includes a statement by the Islamic Resistance Movement, 

Hamas.

MS. HOLLANDER: Can we have a date, please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you know the date of this issue?

A. The date of the statement here is January 20th, 1989. I 

believe the actual magazine article was dated February 1989.

Q. And below that is?

A. Just below the statement by the Islamic Resistance 

Movement, Hamas is an ad for the Occupied Land Fund that 

merely says "Send your tax deductible donations."

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, were there any Illa Falistine 

magazines that had articles in it referencing the Occupied 

Land Fund or the Holy Land Foundation?

A. In addition to the ones we have already discussed? 

Q. Correct.

A. Yes, there were others.

Q. Okay. Do you have before you what has been marked as 

Illa Falistine No. 2?

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A. I do.

Q. Is that one of these magazines that we have been 

referring to, the IAP publications?

A. It is.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I offer into 

evidence Government's Exhibit Illa Falistine No. 2?

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Thank you, sir.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, if we can first put on page 

1 so we can see the cover, is that the cover of the magazine?

A. It is.

Q. Do you know the date of this particular issue? 

MR. JONAS: And if we can turn to page 7?

THE WITNESS: Yes. According to page seven this was 

the November-December 1989 issue.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And to be clear, what language is the 

original magazine in?

A. It is in Arabic, as were the other Illa Falistines, and 

we had portions of them translated.

Q. Do you see under in the title page it says picture of 

Abdullah Azzam?

A. Yes. That is the individual that is depicted on the 

front cover of the magazine, if you want to go back to page 1.

Q. Have we seen him referenced in any of the videos we have 

seen so far, in the songs?

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A. Yes, we have.

Q. If you recall, I asked you about the name during one of 

the songs being played by the Al Sachra Band?

A. Yes. In the video we watched late Tuesday, I guess it 

was, where they were singing about Sheik Ahmad Yassin, they 

were singing about Abdullah Azzam.

Q. Okay. In asking about this issue, I asked you if there 

were any articles that referenced the Holy Land Foundation or 

the Occupied Land Fund. Is there such an article in this 

issue?

A. There is.

MR. JONAS: If we can turn to page 8, please. 

THE WITNESS: Mr. Jonas, on my copy mine ends at 7, 

so if you can show me the original. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Sure. 

A. Thank you.

Q. Agent Burns, can you do a little reading today, or would 

rather me do it?

A. I can do it. Again, this is the translation of page 2 of 

the original in the magazine. And it says on top the Islamic 

Association for Palestine, which is the IAP and then it says, 

"A statement issued by the media office of the Islamic 

Association for Palestine in North America, the third year of 

the Intifada."

Q. Let me stop you and ask you a few questions on that. 

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Could you remind us again what the Islamic Association for 

Palestine is?

A. That organization was the media organization which was a 

part of the Palestine Committee along with the Holy Land 

Foundation.

Q. And what document has that organization published in 

English and Arabic in the United States that we have referred 

to?

A. I am sorry. Can you repeat that? 

Q. What document has that organization published both in 

English and Arabic?

A. The Hamas charter.

Q. Were any of the Defendants at this time associated with 

the IAP?

A. Yes.

Q. Who?

A. Well, this was in 1989, as we said, and according to the 

Defendant Shukri Abu Baker's deposition he was on the advisory 

board during this time period. In addition, we saw Mohammad 

El-Mezain identified in a 1988 video as being a part of the 

IAP.

Q. Did we also see any IAP documentation indicating another 

Defendant was associated with it?

A. We did. 

Q. What was that?

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A. The articles of incorporation for the IAP from 1986 

showed Ghassan Elashi as an officer and incorporator.

Q. Okay. Where it says "the third year of the Intifada," is 

that consistent with the date of this issue?

A. It is.

Q. And if you could continue reading, please.

A. Okay. It says, "The Intifada of our people knocks on the 

door of its third year with more determination, persistence, 

and heroism.

"The Intifada of our people in blessed Palestine came 

with the dawn of the 8th of December, 1987 as an explosion of 

a volcano of anger which filled the Palestinian heart for 

several decades; an anger resulting from the conspiracy of 

colonialism, the establishment of the Zionist state on the 

pure land of Palestine" --

Q. I am sorry. Let me pause for a moment and ask you a 

question. What is the Zionist state?

A. That would be -- That is the terminology that they use to 

describe the state of Israel.

Q. Continue. 

A. "...the practices of the occupation gangs against our 

people and the shameful Arab neglect which reached its peak 

and turned into a conspiracy of treason against the 

Palestinian cause. 

"Yes, the Intifada of our people in blessed Palestine 

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came as an eruption of overwhelming Palestinian anger which, 

God willing, will remove the abomination of the Jews, the sons 

of Israel from above the pure land of the Night Journey, the 

land of Palestine. 

"This is the Intifada of our people. It is the mosques' 

revolution knocking the door of its third year while it grew 

stronger. Its fire burned brighter. Its banners rose higher. 

The resources of our struggling people have exploded and our 

masses in Palestine have gathered around the leadership of the 

Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, giving it their 

confidence, moves along with it and by it in the most 

wonderful jihad march which brings anxiety and worry to the 

enemy and shakes the ground from under its feet. 

"As it knocks on the door of the third year of its 

blessed Intifada under the leadership of the Islamic 

Resistance Movement, Hamas, our people in Palestine assure the 

Palestinian masses abroad in the foreign countries and all 

Arabs and Muslims that it rushes towards its jihad revolution 

on a firm ground of a sound comprehension of the nature of the 

fight with Zionism and its allies which can [sic] explained 

through these facts: 

"One: The cause of Palestine is one eternal field battle 

between the right that the Muslims represent and the wrong 

that the Jews and their allies represent.

"Two: The only way to liberate Palestine--all of 

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Palestine--is the path of jihad, and any other path other than 

the path of jihad will only serve to affirm the detested 

Zionist occupation.

"Three: The land of Palestine is an Islamic endowment, 

and no government or organization, body, or a human being, 

whoever he is, may give up one speck of its soil or recognize 

for the Zionist enemy the legality of seizing one speck of 

it."

Q. Agent Burns, let me interrupt you. In the Hamas charter 

does it talk about how much land Hamas wants to take over with 

regard to the West Bank, Gaza, and Israel?

A. Yes.

Q. What does it say?

A. All of it.

Q. Continue, please. 

A. "Four: The cause of Palestine is a trust in the neck of 

every Arab and Muslim, and jihad for the sake of God in order 

to liberate it is a duty for every male and female Muslim. 

The struggling Palestinian people is the head of the spear in 

the march of jihad to liberate Palestine--all of Palestine, 

from the sea to the river.

"Five: The Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, the 

conscience of our struggling people. It is the ember of hope 

which lit up from under the ashes of neglect and conspiracy 

practiced by the negligent and the conspirators against the 

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Palestinian cause. 

"O, our Palestinian people everywhere, O, our Arab people 

everywhere, O, the people of our Muslim nation everywhere. 

"Everyday, your people in Palestine offer their blood, 

their children, thousands of prisoners, thousands of houses 

that the enemy's bulldozers demolish, and thousands of olive 

trees that the Jews uproot. They offer all that as fuel for 

their Intifada so as to continue and escalate. They have 

pledged to God to continue with this giving until God allows 

his victory over the Jews and their allies, and over the 

negligent and the conspirators from our own kind, the Arabs.

"You people in Palestine look up to you with eyes of hope 

and expectation, and demand their right from you and their 

right is great as they are the ones who restored for their 

Arab and Islamic nation its dignity which was smeared with mud 

by the negligence and the conspiracies of conspirators who 

appointed themselves guardians over the Palestinian cause and 

the Palestinian people through many decades. They are the 

ones who raised your head after the Zionist occupation lowered 

it down for many decades. It is the right of those people in 

Palestine that we be faithful to the blood of their martyrs 

and be faithful to their blessed Intifada. 

"The Islamic Association for Palestine in North America 

calls upon all of you to do the following in support of the 

Intifada of the people of the homeland, and to make the 

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blessed cause of Palestine victorious: 

"First: We call upon all of you to perform jihad with 

your money for the sake of God by donating the maximum amount 

you can to support the Intifada of your people in Palestine. 

You may send your donations in the name of Occupied Land Fund, 

P.O. Box 928, L.A., California, 90232-9028.

"Two: We are planning a fast on Thursdays December 7th, 

1989 and December 4th, 1989, and to make a lot of 

supplications on that day for our people in Palestine so that 

God can strengthen their hearts, shake the ground from under 

the feet of their enemy, have mercy on their martyrs, head 

their wounded and free their prisoners, and stand up to the 

craftiness of their enemies, the manifest among them and the 

hidden ones. 

"Three: We call upon our teachers and sheikhs, the imams 

of the mosque, to dedicate the sermon of the Friday 

corresponding to the December 8 or December 15, 1989 to speak 

about the Intifada of our people, what suffering and 

persecution they suffer on the hands of soldiers of the 

Zionist occupation, and to urge Muslims to perform their duty 

by donating their money to support their people in Palestine.

"Finally, a greeting of appreciation and glorification to 

our struggling people in the land of Palestine. God is great 

and victory to Islam. 

"Islamic Association for Palestine in North America."

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Q. Thank you, Agent Burns. 

If you recall, on the front page of this issue there is a 

picture of Abdullah Azzam. 

A. That is correct. 

Q. Was there also an article about him in this issue?

A. Yes.

Q. And does that article also reference the Occupied Land 

Fund or Holy Land Foundation?

A. It does.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, may I have a very, very 

quick sidebar?

THE COURT: Sure. 

(The following was had outside the hearing of the 

jury.)

MR. JONAS: I just want to be clear before we get 

into this article, we did not redact anything because that was 

our understanding at the end of the day on Tuesday that the 

Defense did not want the words Afghanistan redacted, so this 

issue is not redacted, and I want to make sure there is no 

misunderstanding to that. 

MR. DRATEL: Just so long as we are not going to get 

into anything beyond the affiliations or anything like that.

MR. JONAS: We are not.

(The following was had in the presence and hearing 

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of the jury.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, if we can look at that 

article, please. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put page 9 on the screen. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Is that correct, page 9?

A. That is where we were.

Q. Page 10, then. 

A. Page 11.

Q. You have my copy so I can't say the page. 

A. Page 11 is where the article begins.

Q. If we can start with the top, again can you do some 

reading?

A. I can.

Q. All right.

A. It starts with the Islamic Association for Palestine. Do 

you want me to read the verse? 

Q. No, you don't need to do that. 

A. "The Sheik of Mujahideen Dr. Abdullah Azzam is with God, 

His guard and contentment. 

"The Islamic Association for Palestine in North America 

brings the Muslim nation the good news of the martyrdom of the 

sheik of Mujahideen brother Dr. Abdullah Azzam and his 

children Mohamed and Ibrahim. 

"As we celebrate the passing of our beloved sheik to the 

guardianship of Good and His contentment, we remember his 

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extreme love for Palestine whose land knew him as a Mujahed 

leader who carried his soul on his palm for jihad for the sake 

of God in order to cleanse it from the abomination of God's 

enemies the children for Zion and their manifest and hidden 

allies, as much as the struggling land of Afghanistan knew him 

a Mujahed leader in order to cleanse it from the abomination 

of God's enemies the communists and their allies. 

"If the enemies of Islam were tricked by their demons 

into believing that the assassination of our beloved sheik 

Abdullah Azzam will stop the high tide of the Islamic 

renaissance or put a stop to the march of Islamic jihad, we 

are certain that these enemies will be disappointed and that 

their arrow will miss its target when they find out that the 

blood of our beloved martyr and sheik, the blood of our 

righteous martyrs on the land of Palestine, the land of 

Afghanistan, and every land on which the banners of jihad 

flew, will not go in vain but that this pure blood will water 

the blessed tree of jihad so that it bears thousands upon 

thousands of heroes and martyrs who will follow the footsteps 

of our beloved sheik so that the march of Islamic jihad 

continues, sweeping in its way the enemies of God and the 

enemies of Islam from all the Islamic land.

"Here is the march of Islamic jihad on the pure land of 

Palestine, loved by our beloved sheik Abdullah Azzam advances 

and its fire rises, its banner sores, and volcanoes of Islamic 

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anger explode through them through the leadership of the 

Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, which grew out of the same 

blessed tree which produced our martyr sheik Dr. Abdullah 

Azzam the blessed tree of the struggling Islamic Movement. 

"Here we see the march of the Islamic jihad in 

Afghanistan, God willing, about to tear down the fortresses of 

the assaulting tyrants, the communists, the agents of Moscow 

who set heavily on the struggling Afghani land. 

"The Islamic Association for Palestine in America appeals 

to the masses of our Muslim nation in the corners of the earth 

to be faithful to the blood of our hero martyr and his two 

hero martyr sons, and to the blood of thousands of righteous 

martyrs in the land of Palestine, Afghanistan, Philippines, 

and every Muslim land, and to translate this faithfulness into 

non-tiring work to support the march of Islamic jihad in 

Palestine and Afghanistan and everywhere, either by actual 

participation in jihad, if that is possible, or by financial 

support so that the Islamic jihad march may continue until it 

bears its fruits as a confirmed victory for Islamic and 

Muslims.

"On this occasion we remind our brothers and sisters, the 

Muslims of North America, that they can express their 

faithfulness to the blood of our hero martyr who loved 

Palestine, the blood of his two hero sons, the blood of our 

righteous martyrs in blessed Palestine through the support to 

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the Occupied Land Fund so that you can support your people in 

Palestine. Its address is Occupied Land Fund, P.O. Box 928, 

Los Angeles, California."

Q. And this was the address of the Holy Land Foundation at 

that time?

A. It is.

Q. Agent Burns, besides the video that we referenced a few 

moments ago where there is a song that Abdullah Azzam's name 

comes up in, have we seen Abdullah Azzam's name in any of the 

exhibits you have already testified about?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have Ashqar Search No. 1?

A. I do.

MR. JONAS: If we can put Ashqar Search No. 1, page 

5 on the screen. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And while we are doing that and you are 

looking up, can you remind us what Ashqar Search No. 1 is? 

A. Yes. This was a list of Palestinian Committee members 

taken from Abdel Haleem Ashqar's home, or a picture was taken 

of it, in December of 1993. 

There were two pages to the original document. The first 

page were the Palestinian Committee members in North America. 

The second page the title is "important phone and fax numbers 

for the Palestine section outside of America."

Q. And why did we look at this particular page earlier?

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A. We looked at this particular page earlier because the 

individual, No. 1, Khari al-Agha, was the individual to whom 

the HLF sent over $250,000 in 1988 or 1989. We used it to 

show that he was the first on this list.

MR. JONAS: And if we can enlarge the bottom half of 

the page, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see Abdullah Azzam's name on the 

list?

A. I do, under No. 33.

Q. Besides the Illa Falistine articles and the Ashqar phone 

list, have we seen Abdullah Azzam, or have you seen in the 

material you have reviewed Abdullah Azzam anywhere else?

A. Yes.

Q. Where would that be?

A. Among other things, in some videotapes.

Q. Were some of those videotapes ones that were buried in 

the backyard of Fawaz Mushtaha?

A. They were.

Q. And remind us again, when were they recovered from his 

backyard?

A. In 2005 or 2006. It was recently.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's Exhibit Mushtaha Search No. 9. 

THE COURT: And that is admitted. Nothing beyond 

what you stated previously? 

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MS. HOLLANDER: Yes.

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) On these videotapes that you have seen 

Abdullah Azzam appear on, are there other individuals on these 

tapes as well, other scenes?

A. Yes.

Q. Do some of the scenes involve any of the Defendants?

A. They do.

Q. So when we play this tape, are we going to see some of 

those clips as well?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: If we can play Mushtaha Search No. 9.

(Whereupon, Mushtaha Search No. 9 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Who do we see on the screen here?

A. The Defendant Mufid Abdulqader is the individual who 

appears on the screen.

Q. There is a double image of him here. Did the FBI create 

that double image?

A. No. That was apparently the fancy work of whoever 

produced the tape.

Q. Have you seen that on a number of tapes, this fancy 

editing? 

A. Yes, they do. They have edited the tapes with different 

scenes like we have looked at before.

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Q. Also the split screen and --

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Please continue. 

MS. CADEDDU: Can we get a time frame for this 

video? 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you know what year this 

video was created?

A. It would have been 1988. 

Q. Agent Burns, what is that? 

A. That is an ad for you to send your tax deductible 

donations to the Occupied Land Fund at the same address that 

we saw in the Illa Falistine articles.

Q. Again, what is the subsequent name to the Occupied Land 

Fund?

A. HLF.

Q. Agent Burns, besides this tape, were there other tapes 

with Abdullah Azzam on it?

A. Yes. We see him speaking on some other tapes as well.

MR. JONAS: Your, Honor at this time I would offer 

into evidence Mushtaha Search No. 2. 

THE COURT: I show that the tapes we went over 

Tuesday afternoon is Mushtaha Search No. 9, 7, 2, and 1, and 

then Elbarasse Search No. 32. Are those the ones you are 

getting ready to play? 

MR. JONAS: I am not going to play all of them now 

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with Agent Burns. 

THE COURT: Which ones are you getting ready to 

play?

MR. JONAS: I just did No. 9, and I am getting ready 

to do No. 2. 

Your Honor, since we are discussing it, I would offer 

into evidence those other tapes. Mushtaha Search No. 1 is 

already in evidence. I played part of that. So at this time 

I offer in Mushtaha Search No. 2, Mushtaha Search No. 7, 

Elbarasse Search No. 32. 

THE COURT: And those are tapes we discussed Tuesday 

afternoon. Correct? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Any objection beyond what we discussed 

that afternoon? 

MS. HOLLANDER: No, sir.

THE COURT: Those have been overruled, and those 

exhibits are admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can Play Mushtaha Search No. 2.

(Whereupon, Mushtaha Search No. 2 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, who is Ahmed Yassin? 

A. He was the Hamas founder and former spiritual leader 

there at the top of your chart.

Q. Okay. For the record, I held up Demonstrative No. 17. 

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MS. HOLLANDER: What are the dates of this tape? 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you know the date of this 

tape?

A. Late 1987 or early '88.

Q. Agent Burns, do you know what an RPG rocket is? 

A. Yes. That is short for rocket propelled grenade.

Q. Agent Burns, did you see where Abdullah Azzam near the 

end of the clip talked about taking a week off from 

refreshments, a week off from fruit, a week off from meat? 

A. I did.

Q. Have you seen any videotapes where the Defendants refer 

back to Abdullah Azzam making that speech?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. Is that part of one of the tapes we have already viewed?

A. Yes. A part of the tape that we reviewed on Tuesday 

morning where the children were on the stage dancing to the 

Hamas songs with Shukri Abu Baker down below.

Q. The band on the stage?

A. Right; leading the children singing.

Q. Mahmoud Zahar in the audience?

A. That is correct.

Q. Is this a clip we didn't play yet on Tuesday?

A. We did not play this clip on Tuesday.

MR. JONAS: Can we play Mushtaha Search No. 1, clip 

B, please? 

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(Whereupon, Mushtaha Search No. 1, Clip B, was 

played while questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, who is doing the speaking 

here?

A. That is the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain at the podium 

there.

Q. Okay. 

MR. DRATEL: Can we get a time frame, please? 

Q. Agent Burns, approximately what year is this conference?

A. Approximately 1990. 

Q. Again, when was this tape found?

A. This was a Mushtaha tape as well, so it was 2005 or 2006.

Q. A couple of moments ago the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain 

mentioned a coin box. Did you see that?

A. I did.

Q. Did Abdullah Azzam also mention a coin box in his speech?

A. He said that every family should set up a Palestinian 

jihad box in their family to put money into.

Q. Agent Burns, the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain just 

referred to being on the board with Abdullah Azzam of the 

Muslim Arab Youth Association. Does that have an acronym that 

we have seen?

A. It does. That is MAYA, M-A-Y-A, that we saw on the 

Muslim Brotherhood documents during the first days of my 

testimony. And also we saw it on the chart with the Defendant 

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Shukri Abu Baker listed out beside MAYA as a member of MAYA.

Q. Do you recognize who is walking across the screen?

A. Can we rewind it just a bit? 

Q. That is okay. Agent Burns, do you recognize who is now 

on the screen? 

A. Yes. The individual walking on the screen in the bottom 

with the tie with his hand to his ear is the Defendant Ghassan 

Elashi.

Q. Agent Burns, when we started talking about Abdullah 

Azzam, I asked you if we saw a video with the band singing his 

praises. Was that more than just that one video where the 

band sang his praises? 

A. Yes, there were.

Q. Should we watch another one?

A. Sure.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 127. 

THE COURT: Counsel, anything beyond what we 

previously discussed? 

MS. HOLLANDER: No.

THE COURT: Those are admitted. 

MS. CADEDDU: Can we get a time frame, please? 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you know what year this 

video was created, about?

A. I believe we will see something on the tape indicating 

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1992.

(Whereupon, HLF Search No. 127 was played, while 

questions were propounded.) 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, who do we see on the stage, 

if you recognize anybody?

A. In the middle is the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader.

Q. And remind us again, where was this tape taken from?

A. This was taken from the HLF offices.

Q. When?

A. In 2001, December 2001.

Q. Thank you.

Is that where we see Abdullah Azzam being praised?

A. Yes.

Q. And Ahmed Yassin is who again?

A. The Hamas founder, former spiritual leader.

Q. Agent Burns, do you see there is sort of a double image 

on the screen now? 

A. I do.

Q. Did the FBI do that?

A. No.

Q. Is that the way it was found?

A. Yes.

Q. Agent Burns, moving away from Abdullah Azzam, you 

testified just not that long ago that Shukri Baker had a 

relationship with the IAP, Ghassan Elashi, Mohammad El-Mezain 

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all had relationships to the IAP. Other than that, have the 

two, and other than everything we have seen so far, have you 

seen anything else where the two had been linked up in one 

item? 

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as HLF Search 

No. 14?

A. I do.

Q. What is that item?

A. This is a book taken from the office of the Defendant 

Abdulrahman Odeh.

Q. Where would that office have been?

A. In New Jersey.

Q. Remind us, whose office is it. I don't mean the 

Defendant but --

A. The HLF New Jersey office.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 14.

MR. WESTFALL: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can get the first page of the book 

on the screen so we can see the cover. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, I am holding it up. Do you 

see this?

A. I do.

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Q. Is this the original of HLF No. 14?

A. It is.

Q. What language is it in?

A. It is in Arabic.

Q. If we can turn to page 22. 

A. Okay.

Q. Is that the first page of the translation?

A. It is. This is the translation of the cover.

Q. Okay. And what is the title of the book?

A. "The Jihadist School, Izz Eddin Al Qassam."

Q. What is Izz Eddin Al Qassam?

A. Well, in this context he is a Palestinian martyr who died 

I think at the hands of the British in the mid 1900s. But it 

is also -- He was the martyr for whom Hamas named its military 

wing, which are the Izz el-Din al Qassam Brigades.

Q. Has the whole pamphlet been translated by the FBI, or 

just a portion?

A. We are exhibiting a portion of the translation.

Q. Okay. And the portion that is translated, what is that 

referencing? There are several pages so I am not going to 

have you read it, but just tell us what that is about. 

A. It is about Izz el-Din al-Qassam, and his experience in 

jihad and martyrdom.

MR. DRATEL: Can we get a time frame for the book? 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, were you able to date when 

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this book was --

A. It was from either late 1987 or early 1988, because in 

the back, which we are about to get to, the Palestinian Relief 

Fund was the name used by the HLF, and they stopped using that 

name around March or so of '88.

Q. What year was this book found? 

A. This book was found in the Defendant Abdulrahman Odeh's 

office in December of 2001. 

Q. Okay. If we can turn to page 31, what is it about this 

book, and in particular this page, that links up the IAP and 

the HLF?

A. In the back of the book that was published by the Islamic 

Association for Palestine, there is a page, and we can look at 

the original Arabic as well if you want, but it says 

"addresses that are important to you." And again, this book 

was published by the IAP. And under addresses that are 

important to you, it lists several addresses for the IAP. And 

it says under No. 6, "Financial support for the Association, 

the Islamic Association for Palestine," and it lists a P.O. 

Box in Culver City, California, "Or the Palestine Relief Fund, 

P.O. Box 38 Plainfield, Indiana."

MR. JONAS: Just so we are clear on what that P.O. 

Box in Plainfield, Indiana is, if we can go to Baker 

Deposition page 6 for the screen purposes and page 111 of the 

deposition page. 

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, in the sworn statement of 

the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker, what does he say about 

Plainfield, Indiana, and this particular address found in this 

jihadist school book?

A. He is questioned about it. And although the print is 

terribly hard to read on this screen, I will try. 

It says, question: "Are you able to tell that Occupied 

Land Fund, is that an HLF address at some point, Plainfield, 

Indiana? I think you had testified earlier you lived there 

for some time." 

Answer: "P.O. Box 38. What is the date of this? 1988?" 

Question: "Other than the date you read to us earlier, I 

don't know. There's no date in English."

Answer: "Yeah, that would have been the Occupied Land 

Fund address in Plainfield, Indiana."

Q. Okay. Thank you. 

Agent Burns, I want to talk for a moment about the 

Defendant Mufid Abdulqader with you. Did you interview him? 

A. I did.

Q. And where was that interview?

A. In the office of his attorney.

Q. Was his attorney present at the time?

A. He was.

Q. When was the interview?

A. The interview was in I believe 2002, 2003.

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Q. During the course of the interview did he state when he 

started working for the HLF as a volunteer, or in any manner?

A. He did.

Q. What did he state about that?

A. When questioned about his affiliation with the Holy Land 

Foundation, he told us that he had not worked with them until 

after he moved to Dallas, which was in approximately 1995. 

When questioned further, he stated that in fact he didn't even 

know anyone from the Holy Land Foundation prior to that time, 

with the exception of his cousin Akram Mishal.

Q. Do you recall Mushtaha Search No. 1? That was a tape we 

played on Tuesday, several segments of, we just played another 

segment today with the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain on the 

stage talking about Abdullah Azzam. 

A. That is correct.

Q. The portions we played on Tuesday, and I am not going to 

may any of them again, but was there any portion where any of 

the Defendants identify Defendant Mufid Abdulqader on the 

stage?

A. Yes.

Q. And just remind us what that was. 

A. Okay. That was a tape that we were able to date to 1990. 

And you will remember from Tuesday it was the tape where the 

Hamas songs were being sung and the children were on stage and 

Shukri Abu Baker was below the stage. He took the stage and 

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introduced the band members by name and asked for the audience 

to applaud them, and one of those was the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader.

Q. What year was that again?

A. That was in 1990, five years before the Defendant told us 

that he had any affiliation with any of the individuals from 

the Holy Land Foundation.

Q. Besides playing in the band, do you recall we saw a tape 

during some point in your testimony where the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader was on the stage and was in a skit where he I 

believe shot someone pretending to be a Jewish individual?

A. Yes. He was holding a gun and pretended to shoot the 

Jewish individual.

Q. Did you see other skits like that in other videos?

A. I did.

MR. JONAS: If we can play Elbarasse Search No. 32, 

clip H.

(Whereupon, Elbarasse Search No. 32, Clip H, was 

played, while questions were propounded.)

MS. MORENO: Is that in evidence? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, it is. I moved it in earlier when 

we were talking about the Abdullah Azzam videos. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) In fact, on this video, Agent Burns, is 

there one of the clips with Abdullah Azzam on it?

A. Yes.

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Q. Who is it that just came on the screen?

A. This is the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader.

Q. Are you able to date the video?

A. What was the video exhibit number? 

Q. This is Elbarasse Search No. 32? Do you have a cheat 

sheet you are looking at?

A. I do, because the dates are usually ascertained from 

content so we had to study the content. Based upon the 

content of this one, I think we were dating it to 1988.

Q. And when was it found and where was it found?

A. This was found at Ismail Elbarasse's home, and that 

search was in late 2004.

Q. Agent Burns, this individual who is identifying himself 

as I guess a Jew and a Zionist? 

A. Yes.

Q. Anywhere from what he says, from what you reviewed of 

this tape, does he identify himself as an Israel soldier?

A. No, he does not. He is dressed in a suit. He is not 

dressed in military fatigues. 

MR. JONAS: Play clip F from Elbarasse Search No. 

32.

(Whereupon, Elbarasse Search No. 32, Clip F, was 

played, while questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you recognize that 

individual? 

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A. I do.

Q. Who is that?

A. The Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.

Q. The individual -- 

A. On the top of the chart, yes.

Q. Agent Burns, do you see where he just said that a 

peaceful solution is not acceptable? 

A. I do.

Q. Where else have we seen that?

A. In the Hamas charter.

Q. Agent Burns, was there anything about this tape that was 

used to encourage people to donate money to the HLF? 

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: Can we play Segment I? 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And before we do that, Agent Burns, this 

tape was found, you said, at the home of Ismail Elbarasse in 

2005?

A. 2004, I believe.

Q. Was this tape altered in any way by the FBI? 

A. No. We just selected portions to play, but its content 

was as it was when we seized it.

MR. JONAS: If we can play segment I, please.

(Whereupon, Elbarasse Search No. 32, Clip I, was 

played, while questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, who was that on the screen 

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in the last segment?

A. Abdullah Azzam.

Q. Agent Burns, these videos were in the late 1980s, some of 

the ones in the early 1990s that we looked at so far?

A. That is correct.

Q. Did you see any videos later?

A. I did.

Q. And so we are clear, the videos we looked at so far all 

predated the Philadelphia meeting. Correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. All right. I believe you testified the videos after the 

Philadelphia meeting the rhetoric was toned down?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. Is HLF Search No. 114 a videotape?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Where was that taken from?

A. That was taken from the HLF offices.

Q. Do you know which office, which location, if you know?

A. I would have to look at the tape sleeve.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 114. 

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play segment A of that, 

please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Before we play that, are you able to date 

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this tape?

A. Yes. This was dated to approximately 1996.

Q. So this was after Hamas was designated as a terrorist 

organization?

A. That is correct.

MR. JONAS: Please play this.

(Whereupon, HLF Search No. 114, Clip A, was played, 

while questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, who do you see on the screen 

there?

A. That is the Defendant Abdulrahman Odeh.

Q. Thank you. 

Agent Burns, do you recognize these two individuals?

A. Yes.

Q. Who are they?

A. The individual singing there on the left of the screen is 

Mohammed Mustafa, the HLF's agent in Detroit at the time.

Q. Have you personally met him?

A. I did.

Q. Is that how you recognize him on this picture?

A. It is.

Q. Who is the individual on his right as you face the 

screen?

A. That is the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader.

Q. Do you see where it says, "A span of a hand in it"? Have 

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we seen that phrase or that reference before?

A. Yes. In a number of the videotapes that we have watched 

where Abdullah Azzam spoke, he said that if a span of a hand 

of Muslim land is occupied, then jihad is a mandate. 

Q. Ahmed Yassin, Agent Burns, who was that again? 

A. Again, that was the Hamas founder that we identified on 

the top of that demonstrative on a number of occasions.

Q. Agent Burns, besides seeing the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader in the band singing songs and in those skits that 

we saw, did he do anything else for the HLF? 

A. He did.

Q. What else did he do?

A. In the mid to late 1990s, after he moved to Dallas, he 

also, in addition to singing with the band at these 

fundraisers, he also took on the role as a speaker for the HLF 

where he would actually go and make speeches in order to raise 

money for the Holy Land Foundation.

Q. Have you seen any documents in the search warrant 

material that you reviewed that show that?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as HLF Search 

No. 16?

A. I do.

Q. What is that document, without telling us the contents?

A. It is a list of speakers for the HLF.

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Q. Where was that found?

A. It was found in the HLF Dallas office.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 16. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we could put page 2 on the screen, 

please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you see the Defendant 

Mufid Abdulqader's name anywhere?

A. I do. He is about halfway down the list. You see Mufid 

Abdulqader with a 972 telephone number as well as a 214 

telephone number.

Q. Do you see any other Defendants on this list?

A. Yes. The Defendant Shukri Abu Baker is the last 

individual on the list.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, have you seen any videotapes of the 

Defendant Mufid Abdulqader speaking?

A. I have.

Q. Is HLF Search No. 112 one of those videotapes?

A. It is.

Q. Where was that taken from?

A. The HLF offices.

Q. When?

A. In 2001.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

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into evidence HLF Search No. 112. 

THE COURT: Any objection? 

MS. CADEDDU: No, Your Honor, not beyond what was 

already stated.

THE COURT: All right. That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play those clips.

(Whereupon, HLF Search No. 112 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader 

on the stage anywhere?

A. I do. He is on the stage in the back wearing the wrap on 

his head. And I guess he is third from the left as you are 

looking at the screen.

Q. Okay. Who is Doctor al-Rantisi? 

A. He is one of the Hamas leaders on the chart here.

Q. I am holding up Demonstrative No. 17. Do you see where 

he is?

A. The second from you there.

Q. The one I am pointing to here?

A. That is correct.

Q. The middle row, the second from the right?

A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, I am not going to pick up the chart 

again, but Dr. Mousa Abu Marzook is on the chart. Correct? 

A. Mousa Abu Marzook is the Hamas leader that we have been 

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talking about at length who was the head of the Palestine 

Committee, and also gave money to the HLF, and was arrested in 

1995 at JFK Airport. And he is sending him greetings in 

prison.

Q. So are you able to date this tape from that?

A. It would have been after July of 1995 when Mousa Abu 

Marzook was arrested.

Q. Was that after Hamas was designated as a terrorist 

organization by the United States?

A. Yes.

Q. Thank you.

Agent Burns, when you interviewed the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader, did you discuss with him his fundraising and the 

money he raised for the HLF?

A. Yes.

Q. Did he say anything about handling of the money; in other 

words, what happened to the money once it was raised?

A. He did.

Q. What did he say?

A. Well, we asked him how much he raised on occasion, and 

how the money was delivered, and he said that he didn't know 

really how much he received because he did not personally 

handle the money, especially the cash, and so he was not able 

to tell us how much money he raised on a particular occasion.

Q. Did you review any intercepted phone calls where the 

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Defendant Mufid Abdulqader was a participant where he actually 

discussed how much he raised?

A. Yes.

Q. Are those phone calls consistent with the statement he 

made with you?

A. They were not.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as Abdulqader 

Wiretap No. 1?

A. I do.

Q. Is that one of the phone calls where the Defendant 

discusses raises funds for the HLF? 

A. It is.

Q. Who were the participants on that call?

A. The Defendant Mufid Abdulqader, along with HLF employees 

Ibrahim Khalil and Moataz Hindawi.

Q. What is the date of the call?

A. The date of the call is January 2nd, 2000.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Abdulqader Wiretap No. 1 and the accompanying 

audiotape 1-A. 

THE COURT: Any objections beyond what have been 

stated? 

MS. CADEDDU: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: That is admitted. .

MR. JONAS: Play that, please. 

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(Whereupon, Abdulqader Wiretap No. 1 was played 

while questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, who is the MU on the screen?

A. MU is the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader and IB is HLF 

officer Ibrahim Khalil.

Q. Agent Burns, were there more calls where the Defendant 

Mufid Abdulqader talked about how much money he raised?

A. Yes, there were.

Q. Do you have before you Baker Wiretap No. 6?

A. I do.

Q. And who is on that call?

A. That is the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader and Haitham 

Maghawri.

Q. Who is Haitham Maghawri?

A. One of the HLF officers.

Q. What is the date of the call?

A. January 16, 1989.

THE COURT: Let's take the morning before you play 

that. Let's take the morning break. Be back at 11:00. 

(Whereupon, the jury left the courtroom.) 

THE COURT: We will be in recess until 11:00.

(Brief recess.)

THE COURT: Was there something we needed to take up 

before we bring the jury in? 

MS. HOLLANDER: Can we approach? 

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THE COURT: All right. 

(The following was had outside the hearing of the 

jury.)

MS. HOLLANDER: We don't really need to approach for 

one of them, but for one of them we do. 

You asked us to remind you to admonish the jury.

THE COURT: Yes. I will do that at the lunch hour.

MS. HOLLANDER: Because she is back.

THE COURT: I saw her. 

MS. HOLLANDER: We didn't need to approach for this 

other one, but Agent Burns has something she called her cheat 

sheet that she is relying on, and pursuant to 612 we are 

entitled to see that.

MR. JONAS: They have a copy. We gave it to them 

last week I think. 

MS. HOLLANDER: I would like to see the one she has.

MR. JONAS: If you want to see the one she has now, 

that is fine.

THE COURT: You can see it before cross. You are 

entitled to see that. He says you have a copy.

MS. HOLLANDER: Can I see if she has any other 

marks? 

MS. CADEDDU: Can I ask, if we have another copy, 

what it is called? The names are confusing.

MS. HOLLANDER: I need to know what it is. I just 

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didn't want to interrupt. 

THE COURT: That is fine.

MR. HOLLANDER: Okay. Actually Barry gave this to 

me.

THE COURT: Is that the one you handed out? 

MR. JONAS: Yes.

MS. HOLLANDER: He just gave me one.

MS. MORENO: I didn't see that.

MS. CADEDDU: I didn't see it either.

MR. JONAS: I gave it to you two weeks ago.

MS. HOLLANDER: But I didn't know what it was. Now 

I know what it is. We have it.

THE COURT: Okay. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Thank you. 

(The following was had in the presence and hearing 

of the jury.)

THE COURT: Bring in the jury.

(whereupon, the jury entered the courtroom.)

THE COURT: Mr. Jonas? 

MR. JONAS: Thank you, sir.

MR. JONAS: Before the break, Agent Burns was 

describing Baker Wiretap No. 6. At this time I offer into 

evidence No. 6 and 6-A.

THE COURT: Any objections, beyond what has been 

tendered? 

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MS. HOLLANDER: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Those are admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, just to remind us, who are 

the participants of the call and the date of the call.

A. The Defendant Mufid Abdulqader and HLF officer Haitham 

Maghawri. The date of the call was January 16th, 1999.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: Play that call, please.

(Whereupon, Baker Wiretap No. 6 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Can you tell us who HA is and MU is on 

the screen?

A. HA is Haitham Maghawri and MU is the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, this call and the prior call, did 

they take place before or after Hamas was designated as a 

terrorist organization? 

A. Several years after.

Q. Okay. Do you have Abdulqader Wiretap No. 2 before you?

A. I do.

Q. What is the date of that call?

A. This is January 3rd, 2000.

Q. Again, is that before or after Hamas was designated?

A. That is almost five years after Hamas was designated.

Q. Who are the participants on this call?

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A. The Defendant Mufid Abdulqader and an individual named 

Sabri.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

Abdulqader Wiretap No. 2 and 2-A.

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play that call, please.

(Whereupon, Abdulqader Wiretap No. 2 was played, 

while questions were propounded.) 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, could you just identify the 

speakers by their initials?

A. Sabri is SA and the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader is MU.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, did the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader, 

individually for his fundraising and the band that he was 

playing in, incur travel expenses, things like that? 

A. He did.

Q. Did you see who paid for those expenses?

A. He said the HLF did.

Q. He said that?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you see -- Was that during the interview of him?

A. It was.

Q. Did you see any documents taken from the HLF that support 

that?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as AMEX 

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Records or AMEX No. 2?

A. I do.

Q. And what is AMEX No. 2?

A. Those are American Express records.

Q. Does the fact that there is a 2 versus the AMEX Records 

No. 1 we already admitted mean they are a separate set of 

cards, or separate card?

A. They are definitely a separate set of records.

Q. Okay. Whose records are they, by the way? Whose AMEX 

records?

A. For the Holy Land Foundation. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence AMEX No. 2. 

MS. HOLLANDER: No objection.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put page 1 on the screen, 

please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see it says Occupied Land Fund?

A. I do.

Q. What is the time period?

A. The beginning records are from November 16th, 1990, and 

it looks like this set of records goes through 1994, but I 

don't believe these are complete records. These are just 

selected records from this time period.

Q. And just so we are clear, you testified that AMEX No. 1 

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is also a credit card for the Holy Land Foundation? 

A. That is correct.

Q. Is this separate set of AMEX records a different card 

number or account number?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that correct, a different account number?

A. That is correct.

Q. That is why there is an AMEX No. 1 and an AMEX No. 2?

A. That is correct.

Q. If you can turn to page 3, please. Do you see on this 

page anywhere where the Holy Land Foundation is paying for the 

expenses of the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader?

A. Yes. If you will go to the middle there where the arrow 

is and enlarge that one, you can see that for this account on 

October 5th, 1990, an airline ticket was purchased on American 

Airlines for M. Abdulqader from Oklahoma City to Chicago, to 

Boston, to Dallas, and back to Oklahoma City.

Q. Was he living in Oklahoma City at this time?

A. Yes, the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader was living in 

Oklahoma City during October of 1990.

Q. Remind us again, what did he say about when he started 

working for the HLF?

A. He said he was not affiliated with them until after he 

moved to Dallas in 1995.

Q. Do you see the HLF on this page paying for other band 

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members' expenses?

A. I do.

Q. Whose?

A. Just below that record for Mufid Abdulqader we have the 

band or the HLF purchasing a ticket on Delta Airlines for band 

member Munzer Taleb from Dallas to Boston.

Q. And throughout these AMEX records, do you see other 

expenses that are being paid for on behalf of the Defendant 

Mufid Abdulqader on behalf of the HLF?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: Let's go to page 5 and look at one more. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see where these expenses are being 

paid here?

A. Yes. On the right hand column third from the top, again 

you can see where the HLF purchased an airline ticket on 

American Airlines for Mufid Abdulqader on October 20th, 1990 

from Oklahoma City to Dallas, Phoenix, back through Dallas, to 

Oklahoma City.

Q. So if you look through the AMEX records, would you see 

other samples of these type of payments?

A. Yes, you would. I don't know if in this one there are 

additional records for Mufid, but there are more records that 

show that.

Q. Do you have before you what is marked as HLF Search No. 

15?

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A. I do.

Q. What is that item?

A. This is an invoice from Al-Nujoom Band to the Holy Land 

Foundation.

Q. What is the date?

A. September 1st, 1998.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 15. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put that on the screen, 

please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you recognize -- I know it is a little 

tough to read on the screen. Do you recognize who the band 

members are?

A. I do.

Q. Who are they?

A. Here you have Munzer Taleb, Kifah Mustapha, who was also 

the HLF's Chicago representative, the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader, and a man named Sabri Sabri.

Q. Okay. And is this bill addressed to the Holy Land 

Foundation?

A. It is. If you go up to the top, it says "bill to Holy 

Land Foundation."

Q. Was this bill before or after Hamas was designated as a 

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terrorist organization?

A. After.

Q. Was the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader a salaried employee of 

the HLF?

A. No, he was not.

Q. Did he receive any compensation at all for his 

fundraising?

A. He said that -- In his interview he said that he only 

received reimbursement for expenses, but some of the material 

from the search warrant indicates that he received additional 

payments.

Q. Okay. Do you have before you what has been marked as HLF 

Search No. 17? I am going to ask you for a series of 

exhibits, HLF No. 17, 18, 19, and 20. 

A. I do.

Q. Do those all relate to each other?

A. They do.

Q. Do they relate to any compensation provided to Mufid 

Abdulqader by the HLF?

A. Yes, they do.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 17, 18, 19, and 20. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put HLF Search No. 17 on the 

screen, please.

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what is this item?

A. This is a check to the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader from 

the Holy Land Foundation dated January 4th, 2000 in the amount 

of $1,000. And if you look on the back of the check, it 

actually has Mufid Abdulqader's signature, which, if you will 

recall, we identified on the hotel room voucher from the 

Philadelphia meeting.

Q. The Marriott record?

A. The Marriott records. That is correct.

Q. Who signed this check?

A. If we go to the first page, the Defendant Shukri Abu 

Baker.

Q. And does HLF Search No. 18 relate back to this page? To 

this check?

A. It does.

MR. JONAS: If we can put HLF Search No. 18 on the 

screen, please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is it about this document that 

relates to that check?

A. This is a list of Eid bonuses. Basically the Holy Land 

Foundation paid bonuses to its employees and volunteers for 

their work during a fundraising effort. And if you will look 

at No. 10 on the list, it indicates that Mufid Abdulqader 

received $1,000. And again, if you scroll back up to the top 

you will see the title of this is Eid bonus.

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Q. And are there other Defendants who are also on this list?

A. There are.

Q. Who?

A. No. 2 is the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain and No. 5 is 

the Defendant Abdulrahman Odeh.

Q. Is HLF Search No. 19 and 20 also an Eid bonus with 

accompanying documentation?

A. Well, HLF Search No. 18 I believe is multiple pages, and 

it actually has the checks supporting those Eid bonuses. And 

HLF Search No. 19 is another check for something different.

MR. JONAS: Let's put HLF search 19 on the screen, 

please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is that?

A. HLF Search No. 19 is a check to Mufid Abdulqader from the 

Holy Land Foundation, April 27th, 2000, in the amount of 

$1,000.

Q. Does HLF Search No. 20 relate to this check?

A. It does.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put HLF Search No. 20 on the 

screen, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what does this document indicate the 

check is for? 

A. It indicates that the $1,000 check to Mufid Abdulqader 

was for services during the Eid.

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Q. Just so we are clear, he was not a salaried employee?

A. He was not.

Q. But he was receiving some bonuses for his work?

A. That is correct. For his services, as opposed to his 

expenses.

Q. Were there any phone calls from Mufid Abdulqader and an 

HLF employee where they discussed him receiving more than just 

these bonuses?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what is marked as Baker Wiretap 

No. 7?

A. I do.

Q. What is the date of that call?

A. July 9th, 1998.

Q. Who are the participants? 

A. The Defendant Mufid Abdulqader, his cousin Akram Mishal 

who was also an HLF officer, and HLF employee Ayman Ismail.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Baker Wiretap No. 7 and 7-A.

MS. HOLLANDER: Nothing further, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play that call, please.

(Whereupon, Baker Wiretap No. 7 was played, while 

questions were propounded.) 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Who is AK?

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A. This is Akram Mishal.

Q. Agent Burns, did you come across any other phone call or 

document in all the material you reviewed that indicates 

whether or not the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader actually started 

receiving a percentage of the money he raised?

A. Yes.

Q. You did?

A. Well, other than in addition to the ones we have looked 

at? 

Q. Right.

A. I don't recall anything in addition to the ones we have 

looked at.

Q. Okay. So you don't know whether or not they actually 

followed through?

A. I do not know that they followed through on that phone 

call.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, were there other documentation taken 

from the Holy Land Foundation that shows the Defendants Mufid 

Abdulqader's fundraising and travel on behalf of the HLF?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. I want to run through the series of exhibits with 

you, but before I do that let me ask you this one other 

question. 

Did you assist in creating a demonstrative chart that 

shows an example of some of the activity that he performed on 

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behalf of the HLF? 

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And is that chart based upon some of the documents that I 

just asked you about that were taken from the HLF search 

warrant? 

A. That, and some of the videotapes we have seen.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I would like to offer into 

evidence the supporting documentation for this demonstrative 

chart. And I will Agent Burns just quickly the item is as we 

go through them.

THE COURT: All right.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, HLF Search No. 21, what is 

that?

A. It is a travel itinerary for the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I will run through these and 

then I will offer them into evidence. 

THE COURT: All right.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 22? 

A. It is also a travel itinerary for the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader.

Q. Okay. HLF Search No. 23?

A. This is a document taken from the HLF computers 

indicating a number of individuals who raised money for the 

HLF--dates and amounts.

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Q. Okay. HLF Search No. 142?

A. I am looking for that one in my binder, and you will have 

to bear with me. I don't see No. 142. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, may I approach?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Let me hand you the original stack.

A. Okay. 

Q. HLF Search No. 142?

A. This is a page from a calendar relating to Mufid 

Abdulqader's fundraising activities.

Q. HLF Search No. 143?

A. This is a page from a daily planner again relating to the 

fundraising activity of Mufid Abdulqader.

Q. HLF Search No. 144?

A. This appears to be the same document that we saw in HLF 

Search No. 18. It is just one page as opposed to the multiple 

pages in HLF Search No. 18.

Q. HLF Search No. 145?

A. This is a check relating to the fundraising activity of 

Mufid Abdulqader.

Q. Who is it made out to?

A. Mufid Abdulqader.

Q. Is it one of the checks we looked at already?

A. Well, it is actually the record stub from -- It is not 

the actual check. And it is for a different amount. It is a 

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different item.

Q. A different check?

A. Yes.

Q. HLF Search No. 146?

A. This would be a calendar entry relating to the 

fundraising activities of the band.

Q. The band that the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader is part of?

A. That is correct.

Q. HLF Search No. 147?

A. This is a document taken from the HLF Chicago office 

relating to an IAP convention where the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader took part.

Q. Agent Burns, are the dates for these items, do they range 

over several years, or are they all the same time period?

A. They range over several years. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 21, 22, 23, 142, 143, 144, 145, 

146, and 147. 

THE COURT: Any objections? 

MS. CADEDDU: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Those are admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, you said that you created or 

assisted in creating a demonstrative chart that sort of 

summarized some of the activity that the Defendant Mufid 

Abdulqader conducted on behalf of the HLF?

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A. That is correct.

Q. Agent Burns, I am holding up an enlargement. Is this the 

chart you assisted in creating?

A. It is.

Q. Would this chart assist the jury in understanding your 

testimony?

A. It will.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I would offer as a 

demonstrative exhibit what has been marked as Demonstrative 

No. 19. 

MS. CADEDDU: Your Honor, I would like to look at 

it, because I think I may have a different version.

THE COURT: Sure. Come take a look. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I will put it in the easel 

in one moment.

THE COURT: Any objection? 

MS. CADEDDU: Well, I am trying to get a corrected 

copy, Your Honor. As a demonstrative I don't have an 

objection.

THE COURT: Okay. Admitted. 

Q. Agent Burns, does this demonstrative chart reflect all 

the activity of the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader on behalf of 

the Holy Land Foundation?

A. No, it does not.

Q. Can you just run through it real quick with us, if you 

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can?

A. What we did in creating this was try to give an example 

of his activities throughout the time period of the activities 

discussed in the indictment, beginning in 1988 with videos 

where we see him performing, and then going through 2001 which 

was the date that the HLF stopped operating. 

So in this for 1988 you will have the exhibit number 

listed first where one can go and look at that exhibit to 

determine that it is in fact what it says it is supposed to 

be. For example, in 1988 Mushtaha Search No. 7 is a video 

which features Mufid Abdulqader singing in the band at one of 

these festivals that we have talked about.

Q. So if someone were to look at the exhibits, they would 

see either a video of some of which I assume we saw already?

A. That is correct.

Q. And then the documents you talked about, the calendar 

entry, for example, HLF Search No. 142 in 1999, the Baker 

Wiretap No. 6, the one we played, and all this relates back to 

one shape or another the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader, the band 

singing for the HLF, him fundraising for the HLF, HLF paying 

for his expenses. Is that correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. Just so we are clear, this isn't everything. 

A. No, this is just a sample.

Q. Okay. Let me put this down now. 

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Agent Burns, you said that there was an HLF Search No. 23 

that was a multiple page document.

A. Yes.

Q. And could we turn back to that real quick? And what is 

that document?

A. I have too many binders.

Q. That is okay. 

A. This is I guess you would call it a spreadsheet that was 

taken from the HLF computers that indicates -- I don't know if 

we want to put it on the screen so I can describe it better. 

It is hard to describe without looking at it.

MR. JONAS: If we can put page 145 on the screen. 

THE WITNESS: Well, on the first page it actually -- 

On the title the first line says "solicitor," which indicates 

the fundraiser, the individual who was soliciting funds. Do 

you see that on the top? And then there is a date, and then 

there is a city, and then there is a sum, and it says amount 

received. So this is the document as it was on the computer.

On the left hand side you will see the names of the 

different solicitors, the individuals who were raising the 

money, the dates, sometimes there is a location noted, and 

then there is an amount received noted.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Is this in chronological order, this 

document?

A. Yes.

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Q. What is the date range?

A. This document ranges from it looks like December of '89 

through August 29th of 2000.

Q. Do you see the same person multiple times?

A. Yes. You will see many of the same individuals listed 

many times.

Q. Is the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader listed in here?

A. He is.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: Can we turn to page 145, please? 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see the Defendant on this page?

A. Yes. If you will look about two thirds of the way down 

the page you will see the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader's name 

listed under solicitor with the date of January 6th, 1999, and 

an amount $1,650. If you look about seven lines above that 

you will see his name for January 4th, 1999 and the amount of 

$3,650.

Q. So is his name in this document more than just those two 

times that you identified?

A. Yes, many times. You can go through and look.

Q. Well, we are not going to do that. 

A. Okay.

Q. But I do want to talk about another fundraiser for the 

HLF. Were any of the other Defendants fundraisers besides the 

Defendant Mufid Abdulqader?

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A. Yes. Many of the Defendants were credited with 

fundraising activity in one form or another.

MR. JONAS: If we can stay with HLF Search No. 23 

and go back to page 1, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see any other Defendants on this 

page?

A. Yes. On the second line is the Defendant Shukri Abu 

Baker.

Q. Any others?

A. The third line is the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain noted 

there. It says Mezain plus Jabar.

Q. In fact, you see El-Mezain's name several pages on this 

page. Is that correct?

A. That is correct. And then throughout the document the 

New Jersey regional office is noted or credited with having 

raised money.

MR. JONAS: Turn to page 17. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see the New Jersey regional office 

anywhere on this page?

A. Yes. Close to the top there is an example. It says New 

Jersey regional office, 17th October, 1995, and I believe that 

is $380 across from that entry. And then there is another 

entry about eight or nine names down for the 20th of October, 

1995, $350.

Q. Who was the New Jersey office?

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A. Abdulrahman Odeh was the manager of that office, and as 

far as I know there were no other employees there.

Q. Now, I want to talk about the Defendant Mohammad 

El-Mezain for a moment. We have seen him in a few videotapes 

fundraising. Is that correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. And do you recall the phone call that we played, Baker 

Wiretap No. 5, between the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker and Omar 

Ahmad from the Palestine Committee discussing how much money 

to pay to the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain for his 

fundraising?

A. I do.

Q. Okay. Besides what we have seen and heard, have you seen 

other videotapes of the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain doing 

fundraising?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. Okay. Do you have HLF Search No. 124 before you?

A. It is a videotape so I do not have it before me, but I 

know what you are talking about.

Q. And what is the year of that tape, if you can date it?

A. That one can was dated to October 29th, 1995.

Q. Okay. Where was this tape taken from?

A. The HLF offices.

Q. And when was it taken?

A. In December of 2001. 

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MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 124. 

MR. DRATEL: Your Honor, the prior objections.

THE COURT: Those have been overruled, and HLF No. 

124 is admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Before we play this tape, you said the 

date is what again?

A. HLF Search No. 124 is October 29, 1995.

Q. And was this before or after Hamas was designated as a 

terrorist organization?

A. Hamas was initially designated in January of '95, so this 

was approximately ten and a half months or ten months after 

the designation.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: Can we play HLF Search No. 124, please? 

(Whereupon, HLF Search No. 124 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Mousa Abu Marzook who was that again?

A. Well, Mousa Abu Marzook is the Hamas leader who was 

detained at the time of this tape. He said Mahmoud, but 

Mahmoud Abu Marzook was not detained at the time of this tape.

Q. So it has to be Mousa he is referring to, or would you 

assume?

A. In the context of this and the other videotapes it would 

be Mousa Abu Marzook who was detained.

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Q. Okay. Here he says Mousa Abu Marzook? 

A. He gets it right in this one.

Q. Is this the same Mousa Abu Marzook that is the head of 

the Palestine Committee and on Demonstrative No. 17 that is 

one of the leaders of Hamas that we have talked about many 

times?

A. Yes.

Q. This individual just said, "...for the legality in the 

making of the donations," and I may not be getting every word 

exactly right. At this time in October 1995 was Marzook 

himself designated as a terrorist?

A. Yes. At the time of this videotape Mousa Abu Marzook had 

been personally designated as a terrorist because of his role 

with the Hamas terrorist organization.

Q. Okay. He said, "There is no reason to hesitate to make a 

donation." Were people allowed to make donations for 

Marzook's defense? 

A. They were.

Q. Why was that?

A. There was a committee who went to the United States 

Treasury department and obtained a license to raise funds for 

his legal defense.

Q. And the license gives them permission to do so?

A. That is correct.

Q. Who do we see on the screen now? 

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A. The speaker is the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, what is the Bank and what is the 

Strip that he just referred to? 

A. The Bank is the West Bank and Gaza -- the Strip is the 

Gaza Strip.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, did you see where the Defendant 

Mohammad El-Mezain asked for $500 to liberate a prisoner? 

A. I did.

Q. And was there anything in the Hamas charter about 

supporting prisoners or special segments of this society?

MR. DRATEL: Objection, Your Honor; relevance.

THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what does the Hamas charter say about 

doing those sort of things, if you recall?

A. It said that they wanted to support that portion of their 

population.

Q. That is what the Hamas charter said?

A. If we can pull it up, we can look at the exact language 

if you would like to.

Q. No, that is okay. We can move on. 

I want to show you an earlier tape of Mohammad El-Mezain 

Is there a video Mushtaha Search No. 15? 

A. There was.

Q. What is the year of that video?

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A. That one was dated between 1988 and 1992. It was before 

the Oslo Accords were signed during the Intifada.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Mushtaha Search No. 15. 

MR. DRATEL: Objection again, Your Honor, as 

previously stated.

THE COURT: That is overruled, and Mushtaha Search 

No. 15 is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play those two clips, please.

(Whereupon, Mushtaha Search No. 15 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see where he said the term 

Mujahideen in Palestine?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that term, Palestinian Mujahideen, one we will discuss 

in a few moments?

A. Yes.

Q. Who are the two individuals that are on the screen?

A. The individual that is speaking right there in the center 

of the screen is Fawaz Mushtaha, the person whose yard the 

tapes were found in and also a member of the Palestine 

Committee. And to his left is the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, are there other methods of 

fundraising that we are going to cover later in this trial? 

A. Yes. The HLF used several different methods.

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Q. Okay. In reviewing the body of material that you saw, 

the search warrant material, et cetera, did you come across 

anything that indicates a reaction by the audience of some of 

these conferences to the HLF?

A. It did.

Q. And what sort of item did you review that showed their 

reaction to the rhetoric espoused by the band and by the 

speakers?

A. There were pieces of correspondence addressed to the Holy 

Land Foundation indicating what those donors or potential 

donors thought of the Holy Land Foundation. In addition, 

there were checks that were made out to the Holy Land 

Foundation with comments on them indicating where they wanted 

their money to go.

Q. Okay. Let's start with the checks. 

A. Okay.

Q. If you have the NAIT records before you.

A. I do.

Q. It is already in evidence. 

MR. JONAS: And if we can put page 110 of the NAIT 

records on the screen, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see check No. 188 on this page 

anywhere, the bottom right hand corner?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. This check is made out to MAYA. How do you know -- Was 

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this check for the HLF?

A. Yes, it was. The records that make up this exhibit, this 

NAIT exhibit, were records produced to me by NAIT in response 

to my request for all records relating to the Holy Land 

Foundation. These were checks that were deposited into the 

account of the Holy Land Foundation, which was at that time 

known as the Occupied Land Fund, the account at NAIT.

Q. Now, the check is made out to MAYA, M-A-Y-A. Have we 

seen that name before, just this morning?

A. Yes, we have.

Q. Where?

A. Well, it is one of the Muslim Brotherhood organizations 

on several of those lists that we saw. It also sponsors some 

of the conferences that the HLF raised money.

Q. Was this the organization that the Defendant Mohammad 

El-Mezain referred to in one of those tapes when he was 

talking about him and Abdullah Azzam?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. What does it say in the memo section?

A. It says "for Palestinian Mujahideen only."

Q. Were there other checks that said Palestinian Mujahideen 

on them?

A. Yes, there were a number of them.

MR. JONAS: If we could look at check No. 250. Is 

that on this page as well in the center? 

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Okay. This is also made out to MAYA. 

Was this part of the response by NAIT for the HLF records?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. In the memo section, I know it is difficult to 

read, but can you see the language?

A. It is in Arabic.

MR. JONAS: If we can turn to page 115. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Is the Arabic translated?

A. It is.

Q. This is check 250. What does the memo section, or what 

does it say in the memo section of 250?

A. It says, "Donation to the martyrs a and Mujahideen of 

Palestine."

MR. JONAS: If we can turn to page 111, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do we see check 1119? This check is made 

out to the Islamic Association for Palestine. How do you know 

this check is for the HLF?

A. It was deposited into the HLF account that the HLF held 

at NAIT through ISNA so they deposited it into that HLF 

account.

Q. This document in the memo section, what language is that 

the writing in the memo section?

A. The memo section is Arabic.

MR. JONAS: If we can turn to page 126. Do we see 

the translation for that check? I may have the wrong check 

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number. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) We see another check 156 where it says 

Mujahideen -- 

A. That is correct.

Q. -- of Palestine. Okay. Did you come across any material 

that identifies what the Palestinian Mujahideen is?

A. I did.

Q. Do you have before you HLF Search No. 109?

A. I do.

Q. What is that document?

A. This is a book that was published by the United 

Association for Studies and Research found in the Defendant 

Abdulrahman Odeh's office that relates to the Palestinian 

Mujahideen.

Q. Who published the book?

A. The United Association for Studies and Research, the 

UASR.

Q. UASR is who again?

A. One of the three organizations that made up the 

Palestinian Committee, the one that Mousa Abu Marzook actually 

was one of the original officers of.

Q. What language is the book in?

A. The book is in Arabic. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 109.

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MR. WESTFALL: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what is the title of this 

book?

A. The title of the book can be found on page 138 of the 

exhibit, or at least that is my page number. It says, "A 

study about the Islamic resistance movement, Hamas."

Q. Is there anything in the translation or anything in the 

book that has been translated by the FBI that identified what 

the Palestinian Mujahideen is?

A. Yes.

Q. What page is that on?

A. Page 140.

MR. JONAS: Page 140, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What does it say?

A. Well, the beginning, and again we just exhibited a 

portion of this book because it was quite lengthy, it 

discusses in the first paragraph an interview with Hamas 

founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, and it identifies him as the head 

of the Hamas movement in the occupied territories, which are 

the Palestinian territories. 

It is a question and answer session. And you will see 

where he goes on to ask him when the Hamas movement was 

established, and Sheikh Ahmed Yassin says, "In the beginning 

of the Intifada in December of 1987." 

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The next question is, "Does this apply to Hamas in both 

the West Bank and the Gaza Sector?" 

Sheikh Ahmed Yassin's answer is, "Yes."

Question: "Can you tell us how Hamas was formed?" 

Answer, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin says, "we contacted several 

people in every region and we spoke with them and they agreed. 

We then started to work." 

Question: "How can wings the movement had [sic]?"

Sheikh Ahmed Yassin says, "Hamas is a political movement. 

As for the military and security wings, they were formed prior 

to the Intifada, but Hamas is a new thing." 

Question: "What was the name of the military wing?"

Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, "Says the Palestinian Mujahideen."

Q. So the Palestinian Mujahideen, which we have seen on 

these memo sections or checks for the HLF was the name of the 

military wing of Hamas?

A. That is correct. The original name that they said even 

predated the official creation of Hamas.

Q. Okay. You mentioned earlier that there were letters sent 

by some donors to the HLF. Do these letters also talk about 

the Mujahideen?

A. They do.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as InfoCom 

Search No. 7, infoCom Search No. 8, and InfoCom Search No. 9?

A. I have InfoCom Search No. 7. If you will let me look at 

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the originals of No. 8 and 9.

Q. Sure. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, if I may approach?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you have No. 8 and 9?

A. I do.

Q. What are those three items?

A. These are pieces of correspondence relating to the Holy 

Land Foundation that were taken from InfoCom in September of 

2001.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence InfoCom Search No. 7, infoCom Search No. 8, and 

InfoCom Search No. 9.

MS. MORENO: Subject to our previous objections, 

Your Honor.

MS. HOLLANDER: These are hearsay, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Those have been overruled. Those 

exhibits are admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, I am going to hold up HLF 

Search No. 7 for a moment. Do you see this is the original 

letter. Is that correct?

A. That is correct. With the envelope attached.

Q. InfoCom Search No. 7. My mistake. And the letter is in 

what language?

A. The letter is in Arabic.

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MR. JONAS: If we can turn to page 5 of the exhibit 

which should be the English translation. 

THE WITNESS: That is correct.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Okay. And who is this letter addressed 

to?

A. To the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker. The Fund's executive 

director. 

Q. What is the first paragraph, what does it say?

A. It just says, "May God bless you and all the honorable 

brothers who perform the best of charitable deeds which is 

supporting the Mujahideen in the occupied land."

Q. Okay. Are you able to date this letter? If it would 

help, I can show you the envelope. 

A. I have the envelope. It was postmarked May 30th, 1990.

Q. Okay. And this was found when?

A. It was found or it was seized from InfoCom in September 

of 2001.

Q. And InfoCom Search No. 8, what is that?

A. This is a copy of a handwritten letter in Arabic to the 

Holy Land Foundation. It says, "To whom it may concern."

MR. JONAS: If we can put that on the screen, 

please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is the page for the --

A. Page 2.

Q. Do you know the date of this letter?

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A. This letter was undated.

Q. And does it indicate anywhere in this letter about the 

Palestinian Mujahideen?

A. Yes. In the second paragraph this individual notes, "I 

am enclosing with this letter of mine a small money transfer 

for my Mujahideen brothers in Palestine, and I ask God to 

bless it for them and to help them, keep them steadfast, and 

to support them with victory."

Q. Okay. Were there any -- I am sorry. InfoCom Search No. 

9, what is that?

A. This is a handwritten letter on Occupied Land Fund 

letterhead.

Q. Okay. What language is that in?

A. It is in Arabic.

Q. Is it written by someone that you recognize as being an 

employee of the Occupied Land Fund or the HLF?

A. Actually if you look at the context of the letter in 

English, the translation, it indicates that it is sent from a 

representative of the Fund in Canada, and this individual 

identifies himself as Ibrahim Al Kurdi. I do not know that 

individual.

Q. What page is the English?

A. Page 2.

Q. What does this individual say about Mujahideen?

A. In the second paragraph he actually talks about jihad as 

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opposed to Mujahideen. "Attached is a check in the amount of 

$9,873 to the Occupied Land Fund as a contribution to support 

to jihad in Palestine."

Q. Did you come across any letters that actually talked 

about Hamas, letters sent to the Holy Land Foundation that 

talked about Hamas?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as HLF No. 

25?

A. I do.

Q. I am sorry. I skipped ahead. InfoCom Search No. 10. 

A. I need the original of that one. 

Q. Okay. 

A. Thank you.

Q. What is that document?

A. This is a letter to the Holy Land Foundation and a 

response from the Holy Land Foundation.

Q. Where was this letter found?

A. At the Holy Land Foundation -- Excuse me. InfoCom.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence InfoCom Search No. 10. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Nothing further, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. That exhibit is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put the first page on the 

screen, please.

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) This letter is also on letterhead of the 

Occupied Land Fund. Was this written by someone who works for 

the Occupied Land Fund?

A. Yes. This is a response to the original letter which is 

attached, and it is -- This particular letter was sent from 

the Holy Land Foundation by Shukri Abu Baker.

Q. Okay. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Can we have a date, please? 

THE WITNESS: The response that we are discussing 

right here was sent or dated May 15th, 1991.

MR. JONAS: Can we go to the original letter that this is 

responding to? 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What page is that?

A. Page 2 is the original letter.

Q. What language is this in?

A. It is also in Arabic.

Q. Have both these letters been translated?

A. They have.

Q. Which page is the translation for this current exhibit, 

this current page, page 2?

A. For the original letter on page 2, the translation begins 

on page 8.

MR. JONAS: Let's go to page 8. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is this person writing to the 

HLF about?

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A. This lady writes and addresses her letter to the director 

of the Occupied Land Fund there on top. After greetings she 

says, "You used to send me publications about Hamas' 

communiques and about the activities of the Islamic Office, 

then you stopped. I presented to some of our brothers in God, 

my colleagues at work, the idea of supporting the Uprising. 

By God's grace it was accepted by them.

"We will send you an undetermined amount quarterly as 

much as they are able to give, and that is in support of the 

blessed Islamic Uprising in Palestine. 

"I would like to inquire about Hamas' books by Ahmed 

Yousef and also his book about Ahmad Yasin. I would like to 

obtain them. Please advise me of the cost with my thanks."

Q. Okay. What was the response by Shukri Baker?

A. On page 7, Shukri Abu Baker acknowledges the receipt of 

her letter. And the year is noted. It should be translated. 

But obviously that was August 10th of it should be 1990, I am 

assuming, "...which transmits your noble feelings and generous 

support in benefit of our steadfast people in occupied 

Palestine." So in the first paragraph he is acknowledging 

receipt of the original letter. 

He says, "As for the books you are inquiring about, we 

contacted the Islamic Association for Palestine which is the 

distributing party of statements, publications, and books 

relating to the Palestinian cause. They promised us well. I 

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hope that some of their publications have reached you along 

with this letter mine [sic] or sooner.

"It's important to me, while you and your friends are 

about to start supporting our relatives in the occupied 

territory, to assure you that the Occupied Land Fund is your 

trustworthy organization to which the hearts of thousands of 

people of charity everywhere look up to, hoping and taking 

advantage of the historic opportunity to support the 

resistance of a nation and the jihad of a people. May God 

protect you and guide your steps on the path of charity." 

Signed "Your brother, Shukri Abu Baker."

Q. Does this letter say anything about distancing himself or 

the Occupied Land Fund from Hamas?

A. No, it does not.

Q. What was the Occupied Land Fund/Holy Land Foundation 

supposed to be at this time?

A. It was supposed to be a Muslim charity.

Q. Did you come across any letters of similar nature found 

at the HLF?

A. I did.

Q. Do you have HLF Search No. 25 before you?

A. I do.

Q. And where was this letter found?

A. This was found in the office of the Defendant Abdulrahman 

Odeh.

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Q. Where was that office again?

A. In New Jersey.

Q. That is an HLF office?

A. That is correct.

Q. What is the date of the letter?

A. It is dated November 28, 1996. 

Q. Is that after Hamas is designated as a terrorist 

organization?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 25.

MR. WESTFALL: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put the letter on the screen, 

the first page. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is that? That is the envelope, 

Agent Burns?

A. That is the envelope that the letter was sent in.

Q. So the envelope was found with the letter at HLF?

A. Yes, at the HLF New Jersey office.

Q. This letter is in English?

A. That is correct. This is the original.

Q. It is not a translation by the FBI?

A. That is correct.

Q. Can you read this letter, please?

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A. It says, "Salam Alikum. 

"Enclosed is modest contribution for our people suffering 

from Jewish/Christian Western crimes. In s'allah both will be 

defeated, slaughtered, and kicked out of Islamic lands. This 

is for relief supplies and weapons to crush the hated enemy. 

Thank you. Sultan Mahmoud. 

"P.S. Today the Western criminals celebrate 

Thanksgiving. Who once helped their ancestors survive harsh 

winter then stole their land and killed most all natives? 

Whoever was left was as effective slaves in reservations. The 

Islamic Ummah must not let this happen to us. We must destroy 

Israel and unite and get nuclear weapons to kill the West if 

they attack our member nations of the Ummah. Unity means must 

restore Kalafa."

Q. Did this individual who wrote this letter send a donation 

to the HLF?

A. I am sorry? 

Q. Did this individual who wrote the letter send a donation 

to the HLF?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. Please let me finish the question. Along with the 

letter?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. Okay. Do you have before you HLF Search No. 93?

A. I do.

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Q. What is that document?

A. This is a ledger basically for the Holy Land Foundation.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 93.

MR. WESTFALL: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Put that on the screen, please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what does this ledger page reflect 

with regard to that letter we just read from Sultan Mahmoud?

A. It shows on December 4th, 1996 that the payee Sultan 

Mahmoud, this is the second entry on the page, and it shows 

that he gave a $25 donation.

Q. Was there any indication that the HLF rejected his 

donation because of his letter?

A. No. This seems to indicate that they accepted it.

Q. Okay. The fact that the HLF -- that the letter was found 

in the HLF offices six years after it was written -- It I was 

written in '95 or '96? 

A. '96.

Q. For five years after it was written, does that indicate 

they kept the letter or threw it out?

A. They kept it for five years.

Q. In response to the letter and the donation, what did the 

HLF do?

A. I located additional solicitations by the HLF of this 

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donor for additional contributions.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked HLF Search 

No. 94?

A. I do.

Q. And what is that item?

A. These were the solicitations from the HLF addressed to 

Sultan Mahmoud, the author of that letter.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 94.

MR. WESTFALL: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put page 5 on the screen, 

please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, look at the top. Who is it 

addressed to?

A. The letter is addressed to Sultan Mahmoud.

Q. Where is it addressed to?

A. It is addressed to P.O. Box 2115, Paterson, New Jersey.

Q. Do you know what P.O. Box 2115, Paterson, New Jersey is?

A. That is one of the mailing addresses for the HLF's New 

Jersey office.

Q. And where was this letter sent from, which HLF office?

A. The Holy Land Foundation in Richardson, Texas.

Q. So does that mean, then, that the New Jersey office must 

have transmitted the donation down to Richardson?

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A. The original donation, is that what you are discussing? 

Q. Yes. The $25 donation. 

A. Yes.

Q. Does this appear to be a form letter?

A. It does.

Q. Did you come across any evidence that Sultan Mahmoud then 

continued to contribute money to the HLF?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked HLF Search 

No. 148? 

A. I need the original of that one.

Q. Sure. What is HLF Search No. 148?

A. It is a list of donors from March 10, 1998.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 148.

MR. WESTFALL: Your Honor, may I inquire how many 

pages is that? 

THE WITNESS: It is one page.

MR. WESTFALL: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put that page on the screen, 

please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see anywhere on this page where 

the individual who wrote that letter that was found in the New 

Jersey office continued to make contributions to the HLF in 

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response to the donations solicitation?

A. The second entry on this chart shows Sultan Mahmoud and 

it indicates, if you scroll over to the right, the $25 

donation in 1996 that we discussed in that original letter, 

and then it indicates $95 for the year 1997.

Q. Agent Burns, did you come across anything in the body of 

materials that you reviewed that indicates that the HLF 

rejected this donation from the individual who wrote that 

letter?

A. No.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I am at a good 

breaking point if you want to break for lunch.

THE COURT: Let's take the lunch break. Be back at 

a quarter till. 

And let me just say one thing to the members of the jury, 

to remind you, of course, not to discuss the case with anyone. 

And be sure when you are here that you wear these tags that 

you are given so when you are in the hall people know that you 

are a juror and they should stay away from you. You should 

stay away from you. Of course, you should stay away from 

anyone that is connected in this case. And no one should be 

talking to you about this case. If anyone should try to talk 

to you about this case in any way, you should report that to 

me immediately. 

(Whereupon, the jury left the courtroom.)

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THE COURT: All right. We will be in recess until 

1:45.

(Lunch recess.)

THE COURT: Mr. Jonas? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, sir. Thank you.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, in addition to the 

videotapes we have seen of the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain 

raising funds, and that one we saw the other day where someone 

was spray painting Hamas on the wall, did you see any Hamas 

communiques being sent to the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain?

A. I did.

Q. And where did those communiques come from? In other 

words, who was the sender?

A. Generally the IAP.

Q. Did you see any documents that indicate that the IAP 

would be the one sending out these communiques?

A. Yes. As we have seen Shukri Abu Baker's letter before we 

broke for lunch when the lady from Saudi Arabia was requesting 

Hamas books and statements, Shukri Abu Baker responded and in 

his reply said the IAP was the one responsible for sending 

those things.

Q. Okay. Do you also have before you InfoCom Search No. 72?

A. I do.

Q. And what is that document?

A. This is a grant request from the Islamic Association for 

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Palestine to the HLF.

Q. Where was this found?

A. At InfoCom.

Q. Does this item reference communiques being sent out by 

IAP?

A. It does.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence InfoCom Search No. 72. 

THE COURT: Objection? That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can get page 3 on the screen, 

please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see the middle of the page, Agent 

Burns, where it says "daily fax report"?

A. I do.

Q. If you can just read that one paragraph?

A. It says, "IAP is keeping the readership well-informed of 

the situation in the occupied territories and daily basis 

through a fax network that covers 80 recipients at a monthly 

cost of $500. Due to many requests from individuals to be 

added to the list, we wish to accommodate about 50 more 

institutions and individuals, who like others will pay certain 

monthly fees."

Q. Was the FBI intercepting or getting copies of faxes sent 

to the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain?

A. At some point in 1994 they did begin to monitor some of 

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Mohammad El-Mezain's phone lines, including a fax line.

Q. Was this part of the intelligence investigation into him?

A. It was.

Q. And was the monitoring of the phone and fax lines 

pursuant to a court order?

A. It was.

Q. Was this the FISA that we talked about earlier?

A. That is correct. It was a FISA court order.

Q. Okay. Did you compile some of the El-Mezain faxes that 

the FBI received into one exhibit?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what is marked as El-Mezain 

Wiretap No. 1?

A. I do.

Q. What is that?

A. This is a collection of faxes that the Defendant Mohammad 

El-Mezain received that were captured by the FBI's monitoring 

of his fax line.

Q. Were these all the faxes that he received that the FBI 

monitored?

A. Oh, no.

Q. Do these faxes have something in common?

A. Yes.

Q. What is that?

A. They generally relate to Hamas, the HLF matters that we 

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have been discussing in this case.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence El-Mezain Wiretap No. 1?

MR. DRATEL: Your Honor, just --

THE COURT: Subject to the previous objections? All 

right. Those have been overruled. El-Mezain Wiretap No. 1 is 

admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you see what I am holding 

up? It is a binder. 

A. I do.

Q. Do you recognize this as El-Mezain Wiretap No. 1?

A. I do.

Q. We put a sleeve in there that says El-Mezain faxes. Is 

that correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. Can you just briefly describe how the binder is divided. 

And I can hand it to you, if you prefer. 

A. My copy is not divided, so if you want to that would be 

great.

MR. JONAS: If I may approach, Your Honor? 

THE COURT: Yes. 

THE WITNESS: Okay. Basically the faxes that we 

have in this exhibit are organized by date, and they are 

separated with little tabs that indicate the date.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Okay. If I may retrieve that. 

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A. Okay.

Q. Can you approximate the number of faxes you put in here?

A. I can't recall the exact number. There are about 182 

pages, but those include the faxes themselves and the 

translations of the faxes, as a majority of them, if not all, 

were in Arabic.

Q. Do you recall the time frame that the faxes are contained 

in this exhibit?

A. 1994 and 1995, I believe; maybe some from '96.

Q. We aren't going to go through every one, but I want to go 

through a few with you. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put page 27 on the screen, 

please. And if we -- Let's go back to page 25 for a moment 

just so we can see. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, is this what the faxes 

looked like?

A. Yes.

Q. Do they all look like this?

A. Most of them.

Q. Most of them. And do you know -- 

MR. JONAS: If we can go to page 27 now. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is the date of this particular one?

A. Well, there are several dates on there. The report is 

from Monday October 10th, 1994.

Q. What is the information contained above where it says 

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"the report"?

A. It has a sent by Xerox with a telecopier date and time 

stamp, a telephone number for the IAP information office, and 

there is another date and time stamp. It is my understanding 

that the fax machine that was originally collecting these 

faxes had incorrect dates so that the date printed out by the 

actual fax machine was sometimes incorrect. So when possible 

we rely on the printed date on the document itself, October 

10th, 1994.

Q. The fax machine you are referring to, would that be the 

FBI fax machine or the El-Mezain fax machine?

A. It was my understanding that it was the Defendant 

El-Mezain's fax machine that sometimes printed the wrong date.

Q. Did the FBI put this information on the top, this fax 

information?

A. That information is on the original.

Q. Are you up for doing some reading?

A. I am.

Q. Okay. Can you read us at least the first page and a half 

and the title of this report?

A. Okay. And again, this is an IAP information office 

report dated October 10th, 1994, and it is entitled "A special 

report about the jihadist heroic operation in the midst of the 

city of West Jerusalem.

"Sources of the occupation police said that the armed 

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attack which took place shortly before midnight last night in 

the west side of Jerusalem resulted in the death of 2 and 

injury of 16 others, according to initial statistics, and 

mentioned that four of the injured are still in critical 

condition. According to occupation authority sources, the 

attack took place when two armed individuals in black 

uniforms, one wearing a redhead band, opened automatic gunfire 

and threw hand grenades towards restaurant patrons and coffee 

shop customers and Zionist by-passers in the neighborhood of 

Nalat Shaffa'a adjacent to Jaffa Street which is the 

commercial street in the midst of the west part of Jerusalem. 

The attack took place around 11:30 p.m. last night. There 

were conflicting news reports about the number of the injured 

and the dead resulting from the attack which was carried by 

two suicide at attackers from Al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' 

military wing, according to the enemy's radio which said that 

an unknown person called them and announced Al-Qassam Brigades 

responsibility for the attack. The unknown caller emphasized 

this attack was carried out on the fifth anniversary of 

al-Aqsa mosque massacre, which took the lives of tens of 

Palestinians. Ha'aretz newspaper said today that 20 Israelis 

were injured during the attack while two people were killed, 

one of whom is an Israeli recruit called Lisyan Levy from the 

Beit Zayet settlement located in the area of Bab El-Wad, which 

is the western entrance of Jerusalem. Israel sources 

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indicated that the two armed fighters were martyred during a 

forty-minute fight with members of special units of the 

Zionist's entities border guard and police. At 11:30 p.m. the 

two armed fighters had arrived to car by a street near Jaffa 

Street and the Government press office. They were armed with 

automatic Kalashenkoff machine guns, about eight hand 

grenades, and many ammunition magazines. They got down and 

walked towards a paved road in Nahlat Shaba'a, Yomal Moshe 

Slomon Street where there are many restaurants and coffee 

shops that were crowded with customers at the time. 

Eyewitnesses said that the two armed men approached the place 

of the attack from the Ma'man Allah cemetery, and they 

immediately started to fire at hundreds of by-passers and 

restaurant and coffee shop customers. They were emptying the 

ammunition magazines and replenishing them one after another 

until police and border guards arrived on site, at which time 

a very intense firefight broke out between the two sides which 

resulted in the martyrdom of the two attackers. Sources of 

the enemy's police said that the identities of the two armed 

fighters were known to them and that they were not wanted by 

the security force, noting that they came from the Gaza 

Strip."

Q. Agent Burns, let me interrupt you. In the context of 

this article that you are reading, this report that you are 

reading when it says the enemy's police, who would be the 

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enemy?

A. According to the IAP, the enemy would be the state of 

Israel.

Q. Okay. Continue.

A. "Sources of the enemy's police said" -- Excuse me. 

"Evacuation of the wounded and searching the site continued 

until 3:30 a.m. today where the accident site was closed. A 

helicopter and a large number of police force and border 

guards joined the search operations looking for other armed 

men believed to have participated in the attack. Eyewitnesses 

Yehdiot Ahronot"--excuse my pronunciation--"newspaper 

described what happened last night as, 'real hell,' where 

Jerusalem's commercial district was turned to a fighting zone. 

It added that a state of fear and terror prevailed the 

situation and that the restaurant and coffee shop patrons in 

the area acted in a completely hysterical manner as they were 

running in horror and stampeding each other inside the 

restaurant and coffee shops' halls and kitchens where they 

took refuge while facing the two attackers' hail of bullets. 

In his report during the morning news from an accident report, 

an enemy TV reporter said that the psychological and mental 

damage caused by the attack greatly exceeds the bodily harm 

resulting from it. Al-Qassam Brigades said in their statement 

that two martyrdom-seekers had stormed all the Zionist 

security barricades and reached Jaffa Street in the heart of 

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the occupied city of Jerusalem and opened fire on a huge 

number of soldiers and Zionist settlers. One of our heroes 

then threw several hand grenades which resulted in killing and 

injuring tens in enemy lines. This heroic battle which lasted 

forty minutes coincides with the commemoration of al-Aqsa 

massacre which was carried out by Zionist soldiers following a 

careful planning by Rabin's terrorist government. What we 

want to stress in this statement is the following: 

"First: The armed resistance on Palestinian soil will 

continue on the soil of Palestine until the despised 

occupation is completely driven away from every grain of sand 

in the land of Palestine. Our daring armed operations will 

not stop as long as there is one Zionist soldier remaining on 

our occupied land.

"Second: Heavenly religions, international protocols, 

and sound and national logic grants every Palestinian the 

right to resist Israeli occupation of our Palestinian land 

until we free every yard of our homeland. All calls for 

weakness and defeat which are repeated here and there will be 

trodden under our feet and we will offer blood and sweat as a 

price for Palestine and dowry for its pure soil.

"Third: Rabin's terrorist government which plans day and 

night to annihilate our people and to annihilate the Muslim 

nation, this government will be the first to pay the price and 

the first to be burnt with al-Qassam's fire and Hamas' holy 

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flames. 

"The statement added that, with all pride and 

appreciation, we bring to you the glad tidings about the two 

martyrs of Ezz Eddin al-Qassam Brigades, hero Hassan Abbas 

from Hashem's Gaza, and martyr Issam Mahni Ismail al-Johari 

from Egypt, the Quiver. We pledge our righteous martyrs that 

we will remain truthful to their righteous blood and that we 

will draw a quiet smile on the map of Palestine with the 

openings of our rifles. That is not too hard for Almighty God 

to do. Palestinian sources said martyr Issam Mahni Ismail 

al-Johari, who was martyred during the attack on Jerusalem 

last night is an Egyptian citizen born in 1975 and he came to 

the Gaza Sector under the pretext of tourism on 14 June, 1994. 

Sources said that during his presence in the Gaza Sector 

al-Johari made attempts to contact the Hamas movement where he 

told officials in it that he came to martyr on the land of 

steadfastness, and that he studied the site where the 

operation was carried out and planned for it in coordination 

with Hassan Mahmoud Issa Abbas who participated in the attack 

with al-Johari and martyred during it. Palestinian sources 

said that al-Johari entered Gaza legally using his Egyptian 

passport No. 360595 issued by Shoubra al-Khima passport 

office. Sources said that al-Johari was a soldier in the 

Egyptian army before his service was terminated due to his 

activity in the Islamic group which is opposed to the Egyptian 

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government. Al-Johari is considered the first Egyptian martyr 

to take part in the Islamic resistance operations inside the 

occupied territories since the start of the Palestinian 

Intifada in the year 1987. Israeli security sources say that 

al-Johari is a member of Ein Jalout which came over from Egypt 

and that he was working as a guard in the offices of the 

Palestinian Authority in the Gaza Sector. Security circles do 

not overrule the possibility that al-Johari procured the 

weapon used in yesterday's attack from the Palestinian police, 

according to the information of the occupation's radio. On 

the other hand, Israeli sources said that the second martyr 

Hassan Abbas is from al-Daraj district in Gaza City, and he 

was arrested before by the Israeli security police for 

allegedly providing aid to al-Qassam Brigades where he worked 

as a driver for martyr Imad Akel, the Brigades' leader in the 

sector who was martyred last November by the bullets of the 

occupation soldiers."

Q. Agent Burns, just remind us, how did this report entitled 

describe this attack?

A. "Heroic."

Q. If you can turn to the next communique that is dated 

October 12th, 1994, specifically page 32. I don't think you 

need to read the whole thing, but I want you to read the first 

paragraph; the title, the date, and the first paragraph?

A. Okay. Again this is a translation. The title is "a 

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special report about the kidnapping of a Zionist soldier by 

the Hamas movement." And just to note, if you look at the 

original of this document, and we don't have to turn there, 

but I just wanted to point out that when you say Hamas in 

parentheses here it is in parentheses in the original.

MR. JONAS: Page 30. 

THE WITNESS: I just wanted to note that that was 

not something that was added by the FBI. If you look up here 

where it says -- You can see the title in Arabic there and at 

the end there is the parentheses and a word in Arabic. That 

is what I am talking about.

MR. JONAS: Okay. Back to page 32. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Just read the first paragraph, please?

A. "The Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, called upon the 

enemy's government in the Zionist entity to release 

Palestinian and Arab prisoners detained by the occupation 

forces in exchange for the release of an Israeli soldier it 

said it is detaining. A statement issued by the martyr Izz 

al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas military arm, said that the 

soldier Nehson Mordecai Faxman, who carries I.D. number"--and 

I won't read that--"is detained by the Movement after being 

kidnapped by its fighters. It promised to release him if the 

occupation authorities agree on a number of its demands. In 

its handwritten statement, the Movement demanded an immediate 

and quick release of the head of the Islamic Resistance 

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Movement, Hamas, Sheik Ahmad Yasin, founder of the former 

military apparatus of the Hamas movement, Sheik Salah Shehata, 

Sheik Abdul Karim Ebeid, and Sheik Mustafa Dirani, both of 

whom are leaders of a Lebanese-based Hezballah organization. 

The Movement also demanded the release of al-Qassam Brigades 

detainees. Among the conditions listed in the Movement's 

release is the demand that the occupation authorities release 

180 Palestinian detainees distributed as follows."

Q. That is fine. Does the rest of this communique discuss 

the kidnapping of the soldiers?

A. It does.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put up demonstrative 14, the 

first page. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you see this event 

timeline that Doctor Levitt discussed?

A. I do.

Q. Do you see the highlighted one, highlighted incident?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that kidnapping on October 9th, 1994, the IDF, the 

Israeli Defense Forces soldier, the same kidnapping that is 

discussed in this communique received by the Defendant 

Mohammad El-Mezain?

A. It is. There is a difference in the spelling of the 

names, because his name was translated from Hebrew into 

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English, so there is a variation. But based on the context, 

you can determine that it is the same individual.

Q. Agent Burns, I want to turn to page 37. What is the date 

of this one?

A. October 15th, 1994.

Q. What is the title?

A. "Heroes of al-Qassam were victorious from the security, 

military, and behavioral aspects."

Q. If you can read just that first paragraph. 

A. "Just as the beginning of operation of our heroes in 

which they detained the Zionist soldier Faxman was heroic and 

superb, so was the final outcome with similar heroism and 

superbness, and contrary to what Zionist war general Rabin had 

wished and planned for. It ended in a way contrary to all 

similar operations which encouraged the general to repeat the 

method. This method, which he will change forcibly under the 

heavy blows of al-Qassam, Salah Jadallah, Taysir Al-Natashah 

Abdel, Abdul-Karim Badr, our al-Qassam heroes, wrote the end 

with their blood and smeared it with general Rabin's forehead 

and all of those who surrender."

Q. Does the rest of this communique go on and talk about 

these actions as well?

A. It does.

Q. Okay. Does this communique identify several individuals 

as Hamas members? Do you see that?

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A. I do.

Q. It says Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, and we have seen his name 

multiple times throughout the course of your testimony. Is 

that correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. And Sheikh Raed Salah, do you recognize that name as 

well?

A. I do.

Q. Do you know if he is connected with any particular 

organization?

A. He is connected with a relief organization, the Islamic 

Relief Committee. In addition, we saw in the videotapes that 

we played just before lunch, Mohammad El-Mezain was talking 

about a prisoners project that was presented by Raed Salah. 

That was this man.

Q. Which committee is he affiliated with?

A. The Islamic Relief Committee.

Q. Is that a committee that you already discussed with your 

financial schedules as the HLF giving money to?

A. Yes.

Q. If you go down on this sheet near the bottom half, do you 

see where it says, "The Hamas movement accused the Arafat 

authority," and you see it says Dr. Mahmoud Al-Zahar?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Let me show you Demonstrative No. 17. Do we see 

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Mahmoud Zahar in this chart anywhere?

A. We do. He is the one closest to you there on the second 

row.

Q. Where I am pointing?

A. That is correct.

Q. Does this communique identify him as affiliated with any 

particular organization?

A. It identifies him as being involved with Hamas.

Q. Have we seen him somewhere else in this case already?

A. We have seen him in several different places, most 

notably in the video from 1990 in Los Angeles where Mohammad 

El-Mezain was seated next to him in the audience, and at the 

end of the tape Shukri Abu Baker thanked the Mujahideen who 

had traveled to be with them, or the guests, and Doctor Zahar 

was one of them.

Q. Okay. Are you aware if Doctor Zahar raised any funds for 

the HLF?

A. He was listed as a fundraiser, yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as HLF Search 

No. 87?

A. I don't have the original of that one.

MR. JONAS: May I approach, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Now do you have HLF Search No. 87?

A. I do.

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Q. What is that document?

A. This is a list of overseas speakers for the HLF.

Q. Where was that taken from?

A. It was taken from an HLF computer.

THE COURT: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 87. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Your Honor, this is not one that was 

on the list, so we haven't really discussed it. Assuming it 

is accurate, we have no objection.

MR. JONAS: I mentioned to Ms. Hollander this 

morning that I would be showing Agent Burns this document.

THE COURT: All right. Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, is there an enlargement of 

this document that was created?

A. There was.

Q. Is this that enlargement that I am holding up?

A. It is.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, for the record I will put 

this on the easel.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, per the Holy Land Foundation 

computer where this was printed off of, that the FBI found it 

on, what date was this document created?

A. July of 1999.

Q. And what date does this communique that was sent to the 

Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain identifying Mahmoud Zahar as a 

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member of Hamas?

A. This was 1994.

Q. Five years before this overseas speakers list was 

created?

A. That is correct.

Q. On this overseas speakers list, do you see Mahmoud 

Zahar's name anywhere?

A. I do.

Q. What number would that be. You have the original there. 

A. I don't think the original -- The original is not 

numbered. That is what I was looking for.

Q. So the numbers were added by the FBI?

A. Yes, that is correct. No. 41.

Q. No. 41. 

Agent Burns, I want you to turn on El-Mezain Wiretap 

No. 1 to page 57, please. 

A. I have it.

Q. What is the date of this report, this communique?

A. November 10th, 1994.

Q. And if you can turn to the second paragraph on this same 

page. The other paragraphs are noted with a dot next to them 

on the left. The second middle paragraph, if you can just 

read that paragraph?

A. It says, "Israeli sources reported new and sensitive 

information about the bus bombing operation which took place 

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in the Dizengoff Square in the midst of the commercial area in 

the city of Tel Aviv last month whose responsibility was 

claimed by the Hamas movement. Member of Israeli Parliament, 

Dayla Yitzhak from the Likud Bloc said that the initial 

information indicated that parts of the explosive material 

which disappeared in the mysterious circumstances from an 

ammunition warehouse of the occupation army in a training camp 

in the al-Nabi Mousa area near Jericho were used in the 

bombing operation that took place in bus number 5 in the heart 

of Tel Aviv. Yitzhak questioned the reasons behind ignoring 

the results of the investigation conducted by the Israeli 

military police into the case of the disappearance of 

ammunition and explosives from the military camp at the 

al-Nabi Mousa which occurred last July and August. Deputy 

Minister of Defense of the Zionist entity said it has not 

confirmed that the explosives and the materials that 

disappeared from the camp have reached the hands of Al-Qassam 

cells, but he added saying, 'It is difficult to know that.'"

Q. Okay. Thank you, Agent Burns.

I want to move on to another one. Page 60. 

A. Okay.

Q. What is the date of this one?

A. November 13th, 1994.

Q. If we can read the top paragraph of this one, please. 

A. "An authorized Palestinian source said that a delegation 

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from the Hamas movement started an official visit to the 

Syrian capital of Damascus yesterday where it will meet with 

ranking Syrian officials and a number of leaders from the 

Palestinian opposition. The source reported that the 

delegation includes the head of the Movement's political 

office, Mousa Abu-Marzouk, and the official spokesman, 

engineer Ibrahim Ghosheh. The delegation is scheduled to meet 

with Syrian Vice President Abd al-Halim Khaddam, and Assistant 

Secretary General of the Ba'ath Arab Communist Party Abdullah 

al-Ahmar. In addition, Abu-Marzouk And Ghosheh will attend 

the meetings of the leaders of the coalition of the ten 

opposition factions."

Q. This document identifies the head of the Movement. What 

is the Movement?

A. The Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas.

Q. Okay. Identifies Mousa Abu Marzook. 

A. That is correct.

Q. Is that the same Mousa Abu Marzook that you testified 

about extensively the past several days?

A. That is the same individual.

Q. And it identifies the official spokesman, engineer 

Ibrahim Ghousheh. Have we seen his name in this case?

A. Yes, we have.

Q. And is he on Demonstrative No. 17, this picture?

A. He is in the very center on the second row.

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Q. Do you recall -- 

MR. JONAS: If we can put Hamas letter 1 on the 

screen real quick. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you recognize this letter, Agent 

Burns?

A. I do.

Q. This is in evidence already, but just remind us what this 

is. 

A. This is a letter from Hamas to the Senate Judiciary 

Committee regarding the detention by the U.S. government of 

Mousa Abu Marzook, and it is signed Ibrahim Ghousheh, the 

Hamas spokesman.

Q. That is consistent with the communique that we just 

looked at?

A. That is correct.

MR. JONAS: If we can go back to El-Mezain Wiretap 

No. 1 and I want to jump to page 123. 

THE WITNESS: Okay.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is the date of this report?

A. January 22nd, 1995.

Q. What is it entitled?

A. "A special report about the heroic operation on the 

intersection of Beit Lod.

Q. Just read for us the first paragraph, please. 

A. "Zionist sources mentioned that a big explosion occurred 

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around 9:30 this morning at the Beit Lod intersection inside 

the green line near Tulkarm. The explosion resulted in no 

less than 18 dead and 62 wounded. Identical Zionist sources 

said that the explosion which occurred this morning was the 

result of the exploding a booby-trapped white car model Fiat 

which was near the bus station and that the explosion was 

followed by another one near the station restaurant which 

doubled the injuries. According to the count, the majority of 

those killed are male and female recruits who were on their 

way to their barracks and posts in the West Bank and the 

Zionist entity."

MR. JONAS: If we can pull up Demonstrative No. 14, 

the second page. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you see on this event 

timeline of Hamas attacks the bombing you just described in 

the communique referenced anywhere?

A. I do.

Q. Where is that?

A. It is referenced in the one that is highlighted, January 

22nd, 1995.

Q. It discusses the Beit Lod double bombing?

A. It does, although the communique we were just addressing 

notes that Hamas also claimed responsibility for the attack.

Q. Is this the one where there was a joint responsibility 

claimed?

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A. That is correct.

Q. Did the FBI intercept any phone calls involving any of 

the Defendants where they discussed this bombing?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was on that call? Who were the participants?

A. Mohammad El-Mezain and Abdulrahman Odeh.

Q. Do you have before you El-Mezain Wiretap No. 27?

A. I do.

Q. I am sorry. Not 27; No. 4. I got the number wrong. 

A. I do.

Q. Okay. Is that the phone call you referenced?

A. Yes.

Q. What is the date of the call?

A. The same date as that fax as the suicide bombing, January 

22nd, 1995.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence El-Mezain Wiretap No. 4. 

MR. DRATEL: Your Honor, same objection as 

previously made. 

THE COURT: Have been overruled and -- Are you also 

offering 4-A? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, No. 4 and 4-A. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play that call, please.

(Whereupon, El-Mezain Wiretap No. 4 was played, 

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while questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Can you first identify who AB and UM are?

A. AB is the Defendant Abdulrahman Odeh. Unknown male is 

someone who answered the phone, who apparently is a child of 

the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain.

Q. Agent Burns, what was happening right around that time 

with Hamas with regard to the U.S. government?

A. Shortly after this suicide bombing, the United States 

designated Hamas as a terrorist organization.

Q. Right after the designation, was there another call 

between the Defendant Odeh and El-Mezain where they discussed 

concealment of some of the HLF money?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as El-Mezain 

Wiretap No. 27?

A. I do.

Q. And who is on that call?

A. Mohammad El-Mezain and Abdulrahman Odeh.

Q. What is the date of the call?

A. February 27th, 1995.

Q. How soon after -- I got the exhibit number wrong. 

No. 12. Sorry. My mistake. El-Mezain Wiretap No. 12, which 

may be the same call you are referring to. 

A. Okay. It is labeled here No. 27. So if No. 27 is now 

No. 12, then I have it.

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Q. Yes, No. 12. I am sorry. My last question to you I 

believe, you said who the participants were. The date of the 

call was? 

A. The date of the call was February 27th, 1995.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence El-Mezain Wiretap No. 12 wand 12-A. 

MR. DRATEL: Your Honor, we have to approach on this 

one.

THE COURT: All right. 

(The following was had outside the hearing of the 

jury.)

MR. DRATEL: This is the call having to do with --

THE COURT: With the money laundering? 

MR. DRATEL: Yes. And the Court had not ruled on 

that as of -- You were going to look at it.

THE COURT: Remind me of the issue.

MR. DRATEL: The issue, it is really threefold. One 

is Mr. El-Mezain was acquitted on the money laundering counts, 

so in that context this is really double jeopardy as well as 

collateral estoppel. But, I mean, there is no argument that 

he can be part of a money laundering conspiracy at any time 

because he was acquitted of all those charges. 

Second is, it really is a prejudicial variance as well 

because it gives the Government an opportunity to argue 

something about money laundering that is not part of the money 

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laundering charges in the indictment. The specific money 

laundering is the payments from Holy Land to the zakat 

committees, not the structuring, not deposits, not where the 

contributions are coming from. It is where the contributions 

are going to. So I think that would be a prejudicial 

variance. 

Also it is 403 around all of that as well. And it really 

doesn't even make structuring because structuring has to be 

illegal. I mean, you have to know it is illegal. It is a 

willful -- Ratzlaf is the Supreme Court case from '95 that 

establishes that you have to have an illegal purpose to 

structure, and here this conversation doesn't give any of 

that, so it really is a 403, the unfair prejudicial value 

substantially outweighs any probative value.

MR. WESTFALL: I join in that objection; not only 

the same double jeopardy issues, but on the issue, the fact 

that it is, you know, it is not an indictment count. It is 

not stated in the indictment anywhere. And it is a serious 

403 issue, particularly if they intend to refer to it as 

structuring and have her opine about structuring and all of 

that, which I think would very much compound the harm under 

403, rather than just lay the fact out. 

Saying that this was structuring, drug dealers do this, 

or whatever she may be ready to talk about, I think would, 

just like I said, exponentially compound the harm. I don't 

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know what they intend to do. 

MS. HOLLANDER: I will wait.

THE COURT: I think it involves these two. Of 

course, it can apply.

MS. CADEDDU: Once again, this is something that I 

would request a limiting instruction on.

MS. HOLLANDER: Yes, I would, too, and a 

contemporaneous limiting instruction, if this is going to come 

in. It has nothing to do with my client.

MR. JONAS: This has nothing to do with the money 

laundering charges as charged. Okay? What this really is is 

about a month after Hamas is designated, the Defendants Odeh 

and El-Mezain talk about cash that Odeh has, HLF cash he has 

raised that he has, and El-Mezain tells him to structure it -- 

He doesn't use that term, but he talks about there is a form 

that will be filled out, and they talk about their bank 

accounts being watched. 

So our position is this is part of the whole concealment 

of the conspiracy. This is all part of that. Hamas has just 

been designated. They know they are being watched. He tells 

them not to put all the money in at once because a form is 

going to be filled out. So it goes to --

THE COURT: To knowledge and intent.

MR. JONAS: Knowledge, state of mind, intent, all of 

that.

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MR. DRATEL: Mr. El-Mezain was acquitted of that 

conspiracy. This is collateral estoppel. They can't start 

proving a conspiracy that he was acquitted on.

THE COURT: But as I understand, it is not just the 

money laundering conspiracy, but --

MR. DRATEL: But he was acquitted of that 

conspiracy, the '95 conspiracy, too.

THE COURT: But Mr. Odeh -- 

MR. DRATEL: Then I would ask for a limiting 

instruction that it not be considered against Mr. El-Mezain.

MR. JONAS: I think it also goes to intent.

THE COURT: That is what I was getting at. He is 

arguing that it goes to the bigger conspiracy; not just the 

money laundering, but the bigger conspiracy of Hamas.

MR. DRATEL: I understand. But the whole joint 

venture issue as to why something before it is illegal for Mr. 

El-Mezain doesn't apply here because they are already alleging 

there is a conspiracy. It is not an illegal joint venture. 

This is between '95 and '97. 

THE COURT: We will deal with the limiting 

instructions later. I think it comes in. Certainly it comes 

in as to Mr. Odeh. He is offering it for a broader purpose, 

for the broader conspiracy, and I think it goes to that as 

well because it is right after the designation to show 

knowledge. That is their spin on it. Of course, you can 

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argue whatever you want to, but I think that is ultimately up 

to the jury.

MR. DRATEL: Well, I can't argue -- 

THE COURT: Well, everybody.

MR. DRATEL: Also, Your Honor, I just have some 

concern about leaving limiting instructions to the point where 

they don't have an impact because they are too late in the 

case and the evidence has come in and the jury has been 

assimilating it in a way without proper direction from the 

Court.

THE COURT: I am just not ready to give those 

limiting instructions because I have to make the 

determinations of the conspiracy and furtherance of and the 

course and scope. I understand this is a joint venture, but 

it is the same rules. So I am just not ready to give those 

limiting instructions.

MR. DRATEL: But you understand what I am saying is 

the joint venture won't apply to this period of time where 

they say there is already a conspiracy because Mr. El-Mezain, 

he is just not part of it.

THE COURT: Yes, I understand your argument.

MR. WESTFALL: How far do you intend to go with it? 

MR. JONAS: I will tell you exactly. We are going 

to play the call, I was going to ask her if she knows what 

structuring is -- Let me rephrase that. I am going to ask 

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Your Honor if you can maybe even instruct the jury not what 

structuring is, but if in fact more than $10,000 is deposited 

into an account at one time, that a form is required to be 

filed with the U.S. government. I think either she or Your 

Honor can tell it to the jury. And then I was going to show 

her the fact that we have a certified document that shows that 

no form was filed with regard to this transaction.

THE COURT: So you are not getting into the fact 

that it is criminal; just that a form is required and that no 

form was filed.

MR. JONAS: Correct. If Your Honor even just wants 

to just let the jury know --

MR. WESTFALL: We can stipulate that cash deposits 

over $10,000 require a form to be filled out.

THE COURT: Or you can get her to testify and then 

you can stipulate to it.

MR. WESTFALL: We will stipulate to that. 

MR. DRATEL: That there is a requirement.

MR. JONAS: Do you want me to ask her, or just -- 

MR. WESTFALL: Let's just stipulate.

MS. CADEDDU: Just one other objection for the 

record. I think that this is 404(b). We weren't given notice 

of it in advance of trial. So for that reason also. I mean, 

it is not -- I am speaking for them, I guess. It is 404(b) 

material that they were not given notice of in advance of 

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trial. It is an extraneous -- 

THE COURT: Did this come in the last time? 

MR. JONAS: No. We didn't even -- It wasn't part of 

our plan last time. It is our position that it is 

inextricably intertwined with what was going on in this case.

MS. HOLLANDER: I have one other thing when we are 

finished, while we are here.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

MR. WESTFALL: Your Honor, can we request the jury 

out so we can hash out kind of the rest of it. They have been 

sitting over there for a while.

THE COURT: I don't think we need to send them out 

for this. The stipulation is just simply that a deposit or 

cash -- 

MR. DRATEL: Cash deposits of more than $10,000 in 

one day require a form to be filled out.

MR. JONAS: That gets filed with the Government.

MR. DRATEL: Yes. 

MR. JONAS: And when the appropriate time comes up 

after the call -- 

THE COURT: Why don't you write that out and hand it 

to them when you get a chance, and you can just read it.

MR. WESTFALL: And then you are going to do the 

redacted one, the redacted conversations.

MR. JONAS: The one I am about to play? 

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MR. WESTFALL: Yes. That is the redacted one.

MR. JONAS: I know there are concerns you have.

MR. WESTFALL: I received two different versions of 

it. One is the long one; one is the short one.

MR. JONAS: It is redacted. I will show you my 

transcript. I know what you are thinking of. 

Just to inform Your Honor, Mr. Odeh made some statements 

that can be viewed by some people on the jury as racial, 

racist.

MR. WESTFALL: Racist or realistic depending on 

where you live. He was worried about getting mugged because 

he had the cash by a black guy.

MR. JONAS: So we are mindful of that, and it is not 

in the transcript. 

And Mr. Westfall, I will show you the transcript before 

you play it.

MR. WESTFALL: That is fine. Well, I want to double 

check.

MS. CADEDDU: I want to cite a Fifth Circuit case, 

United States versus Sumlin, a 404(b) reversal in the Fifth 

Circuit from 2007. 

MS. HOLLANDER: We join that. 

MS. MORENO: Join that objection. Ask for a 

limiting instruction, Your Honor. And again, I don't know if 

it has been said because I couldn't hear it, but, Your Honor, 

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I think really the limiting instruction whenever it comes, if 

it comes after the evidence is in, loses its effectiveness.

THE COURT: I am not sure -- The jury has heard a 

lot of information over the last couple of weeks. They are 

going to hear a lot more. I am not what any effect any of 

this, if we gave them a limiting instruction, that they would 

remember later on what it applies to. I am not worried about 

that. And we will give a proper limiting instruction when the 

time comes. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Your Honor, if I can, I would like a 

continuing objection, because I don't want to have to keep 

getting up, but Mr. Jonas continually prefaces his questions 

with long-leading questions, then goes back and replays things 

the jury has already seen to tie things up. Now, I mean it is 

really not proper to introduce something and introduce it 

again and introduce it again and introduce it again. He just 

did it with this Hamas letter. Everyone of those is prefaced 

with leading questions.

THE COURT: You might want to watch the leading. I 

would allow some of that linking it, because this is a lot of 

evidence. And I know the jury is confused, so they are 

entitled to try to put it together for that jury. So I am 

going to give him some latitude.

MS. HOLLANDER: And I get that latitude, too.

THE COURT: Yes. But watch the leading. That 

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doesn't entitle you to lead. But I do think it is proper. I 

think it helps the jury to keep things straight, and so I will 

let that happen.

MS. MORENO: I just wanted to add my voice to that 

particular issue as well, Your Honor. I have not been 

objecting to the leading questions, but I do think that it has 

gone way over connecting the jury and assisting the jury. I 

understand that, and I haven't gotten up on my feet, but this 

is direct. It is not cross examination. And I would ask the 

Court to -- 

MR. JONAS: I will try, Your Honor. 

There is one thing, a housekeeping matter. This is 

something I mentioned the other day. I have got a series of 

exhibits that I need to admit through Agent Burns for the 

testimony of later witnesses, and I am getting to the point 

where I can probably do that, Your Honor.

THE COURT: It is time to do that? 

MR. JONAS: Not quite yet, but soon, because I am 

getting near the end of her testimony. I may finish with her 

today.

MS. HOLLANDER: The zakat committee thing? 

MR. JONAS: I am talking about another set of 

exhibits which is on the list that we gave you. The zakat 

committee schedules that she is going to testify about are 

just to show the transactions. But there is a series of 

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exhibits she is not going to say a word about other than to 

get them into evidence.

THE COURT: What are they about? 

MR. JONAS: Just different things. There are some 

phone calls, some of the same phone calls -- 

THE COURT: That other witnesses will discuss? 

MR. JONAS: Yes. That need to come in through her.

MS. CADEDDU: Why can't we do them when she comes 

next time? 

MR. JONAS: Because some of those witnesses may 

testify before she comes back next time.

MS. CADEDDU: Are they on the list? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, they are.

MS. HOLLANDER: They are on the list, but I am 

assuming that -- I have talked to Mr. Jonas about this and he 

agrees to me. Since we are not really getting into these now, 

we are not going to cross her on them now.

THE COURT: I understand.

MR. JONAS: But you are confusing something, Ms. 

Hollander. There are financial schedules that I am going to 

end her testimony with which show where the HLF sent the money 

to the zakat committees, which is the crime here. And she is 

going to -- I am going to put those on the screen, and I am 

going to have her walk through and explain to the jury some of 

those schedules and the transactions so that the jury 

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understands. That is one thing.

MS. HOLLANDER: That is what we are not going to 

cross about.

MR. JONAS: Right. 

THE COURT: That is what you are not going to cross 

about is this second -- If he goes into the zakat committee -- 

You don't want him to cross on that either? 

MR. JONAS: Let me just clarify. Agent Burns is 

going to come back a second time to testify. The second 

testimony she will get into the substance of the zakat 

committees and how they are related to Hamas. This sort of 

sets that up. So all she is going to say is -- My questions 

are going to be, "Where did the HLF send its money to?" And 

then we will go through, I don't know how many schedules, six 

or seven, and I will put them on the screen and she will walk 

the jury through it.

THE COURT: And you won't cross on that either? 

MR. JONAS: That is up to them.

MS. HOLLANDER: We prefer not to cross on that.

THE COURT: I think that is a better way to do that.

MR. WESTFALL: Are we going to do all the financial 

transactions that underlie the indictment with her right now, 

and we aren't going to be allowed to cross? 

THE COURT: Eventually you will. 

MS. HOLLANDER: I was going to wait.

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THE COURT: He is just getting them in now. 

MR. JONAS: I am going to get them in now, and she 

will get in the second testimony the zakat committee evidence. 

MS. MORENO: I am sorry. I was under a different 

impression. I am so sorry, Mr. Jonas. I was under a 

different impression. I thought the whole substance of the 

zakat evidence you were going to get in the second go round, 

and I thought you and I discussed that. Now I am learning you 

are going to get into the financial transactions that underlie 

the indictment.

MR. JONAS: Then you misunderstood.

MS. MORENO: If that is true, I would just ask leave 

of Court that if I decide not to cross her on those 

transactions, then I can the second time she appears.

THE COURT: That is when she is really going to get 

into the substance of it.

MR. JONAS: Right now it is just to let the jury 

know there are these transactions out there going to these 

zakat committees, and here are some of the documents that 

support it.

THE COURT: And why do you think you need to put 

that on before she comes back the second time? 

MR. JONAS: In is separate from what I talked about 

a moment ago. This is a bridge for us. The jury has heard a 

lot of evidence of what is going on here in the United States, 

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and we want to show the jury, look, now they sent this money 

to the zakat committees, so the jury knows there is something 

going on overseas, and then she is going to stop.

THE COURT: And then you will establish that you 

will bring her back later on? 

MR. JONAS: Yes. And she is going to pick up, as 

well as other witnesses later on, now the money goes to the 

zakat committees. What happens? Who are these zakat 

committees? How are they linked to Hamas? 

And Your Honor, I did not -- You know, I apologize if you 

misunderstood.

THE COURT: We have had this conversation before, 

because I remember it. 

MR. JONAS: Separate and apart from that there are a 

series of exhibits that she will not say a word about, other 

than, "Agent Burns, what is" -- 

THE COURT: Identify them and offer them. 

MR. JONAS: "What is El-Mezain No. 50?"

"El-Mezain No. 50 is a phone call." 

And I offer it into evidence. I will not pay the phone 

call. 

"What is InfoCom No. 50?"

"InfoCom No 50 is a document."

"I offer it into evidence."

She won't say a word about it, but just to get it into 

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evidence so witnesses later on can talk about it.

THE COURT: Okay. 

MS. HOLLANDER: When we cross her this time, I may 

want to on my cross make clear in my cross to her in front of 

the jury that we are going to be talking about these zakat 

committees later on that she did all this stuff.

MR. JONAS: That is fine with me.

MR. WESTFALL: Including the financial transactions? 

MR. JONAS: She is going -- When she comes back the 

second time -- 

MS. MORENO: It is up to the Court to allow it. 

That is why I ask leave of the Court if you will let me do 

that. 

THE COURT: That is why he is wanting to do it. You 

will be entitled to cross at some point.

MS. HOLLANDER: I will cross her later, but I want 

to bring it up now so the jury doesn't wonder why we are not 

crossing her on it. 

THE COURT: You can do that.

MS. CADEDDU: I do want to register an objection. I 

don't know exactly what she is going to testify to the second 

time around, but I don't think that Agent Burns is qualified 

to testify that these zakat committees are Hamas, and I would 

strenuously object to that. She is not qualified as an 

expert. She is the case agent.

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THE COURT: Remind me of that before we get to that 

point, like at some point -- 

MS. HOLLANDER: I think he may have mentioned that 

today.

MR. JONAS: That she is an expert? 

MS. HOLLANDER: No; that these are Hamas.

THE COURT: That these zakat committees are Hamas, 

are you planning on getting into that today? 

MR. JONAS: No.

THE COURT: Okay. So just remind me before we get 

to that point, and we will take that up outside the presence 

of the jury. 

MS. MORENO: Finally, Your Honor, I was also under 

the impression, because I have asked Mr. Jonas this several 

times because I will be the first to cross examine Agent 

Burns, when he was going to finish, and I was told it would be 

the end of the today. So I have always anticipated beginning 

tomorrow. Now I hear that perhaps it might be earlier, and I 

would ask if we can begin cross examination tomorrow.

THE COURT: Just remind me. I don't want to break 

too early. But if we are close, then we can go ahead and 

break.

MR. JONAS: Are you faulting me for going a little 

faster than anticipated? 

MS. MORENO: Go as fast as you want, counsel.

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THE COURT: Okay. That is it. Okay. 

(The following was had in the presence and hearing 

of the jury.)

MR. JONAS: I believe I was offering Government's 

exhibit El-Mezain Wiretap No. 12 and 12-A. 

THE COURT: Yes. And Mr. Dratel, those objections 

have been noted. They are overruled. And No. 12 and 12-A are 

admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Can you play that call? 

(Whereupon, El-Mezain Wiretap No. 12 was played, 

while questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, who is AB and who is MO?

A. AB is the Defendant Abdulrahman Odeh and MO is the 

Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain.

Q. And it has been a few minutes since I asked you this. 

What is the date of the call again?

A. It was February 27th, 1995.

Q. And how soon prior to this call was Hamas first 

designated as a terrorist organization?

A. Hamas was designated on January 24th, 1995, so 

approximately a month.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would like to 

read a stipulation of the parties into the record.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. JONAS: By agreement of the parties, "Bank 

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deposits of more than $10,000 in cash in a single day require 

that a form be filled out, and that form is filed with the 

U.S. government."

THE COURT: And counsel, you agree with that 

stipulation? 

MR. DRATEL: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: And as I have explained to you before, 

once the parties have made a stipulation, then you can accept 

that as a fact without hearing any additional evidence on that 

point.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, did you look at the HLF bank 

account for New Jersey to see if in fact cash was deposited on 

two separate days in the amounts discussed during that phone 

call?

A. I did.

Q. Do you have HLF Bank Account No. 6?

A. I do.

Q. What is that bank account?

A. This is one of the HLF bank accounts ending in 1581.

Q. Where is that bank account -- What bank is that from? 

A. It is from Hudson United Bank, and that is in Paterson, 

New Jersey.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Bank Account No. 6. 

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

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MR. JONAS: If we can put just the first page on.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this document?

A. This is the signature card for the bank account.

Q. Whose signatures are on the signature card?

A. For president it appears to be Mohammad El-Mezain, vice 

president Shukri Abu Baker, and treasurer Ghassan Elashi, 

although I cannot read that first signature for Mohammad 

El-Mezain.

MR. JONAS: If we can turn to page 4 of this 

exhibit, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What does this page represent?

A. This is a deposit slip.

Q. For how much?

A. $8,950.

Q. Was this cash or check?

A. Cash.

Q. What is the date?

A. The same day as the phone call, February 27th, 1995.

MR. JONAS: And page 5, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What does this document, this page 

represent?

A. This is another deposit slip.

Q. For how much?

A. For $8,000.

Q. What is the date of this deposit?

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A. February 28th, 1995, the next day.

Q. Okay. Do you know if a form was ever filled out with the 

government and filed with the government reflecting these two 

cash deposits?

A. There was no currency transaction report that was filled 

out relating to this transaction.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as Bank 

Secrecy Form?

A. I don't believe I have that one.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, may I approach?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is that document?

A. This is a certification of search for Bank Secrecy Act 

forms.

Q. It is a certified document?

A. It is.

Q. Does it relate to any of the Defendants in this case?

A. It does; the Defendant Abdulrahman Odeh.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's Exhibit Bank Secrecy Form. 

THE COURT: Any objections to that? That is 

admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put the second page on the 

screen, please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what does this document reflect?

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A. It reflects -- This is from the Internal Revenue Service, 

the IRS, and it says that the subject is "Certification of 

search for Bank Secrecy Act forms." It says, "As the 

custodian of records, I have conducted a diligent search of 

the Internal Revenue Service records maintained at the Detroit 

Computing Center for Abdulrahman Odeh. The above search 

indicated no record for the following Bank Secrecy Act forms 

were filed for the above information for the period of January 

1st, 1995 through December 31st, 2001." And included on that 

is the first document a CTR, which is a currency transaction 

report.

MR. JONAS: If we can go back to the El-Mezain 

Wiretap No. 1 which were those communiques we were looking at 

earlier. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Did the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain 

continue to receive these communiques, these reports after 

Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: And if we could turn to page 143. I am 

sorry, page 142. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is the date of this report?

A. April 13th, 1995.

MR. JONAS: And if we can turn to the next page now. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Can you read that paragraph on this page. 

A. Yes. This would be the last paragraph of this report. 

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And it says, "Zionist sources said that representatives of the 

U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation will take part in the 

investigations on the suicide attack which occurred last 

Sunday near Kfar Darum settlement in the Gaza strip. 

According to the sources, having the investigators of the U.S. 

Federal Bureau of Investigation join the investigation is due 

to the death of an American citizen of a Zionist origin. The 

American citizen had come to the Zionist entity to study the 

Torah in a Jewish religious institute in the city of 

Jerusalem. U.S. State Department's spokesman had said that, 

'Sending representatives of the federal intelligence to the 

Zionist entity comes in accordance with a U.S. law enacted in 

1986 which allows the U.S. authorities to investigate 

"terrorist crimes" carried out against Americans outside the 

United States and bringing the defendants to trial before 

American courts.'"

Q. Agent Burns, as an FBI agent are you aware if the FBI 

travels to other countries to investigate terrorist attacks 

when Americans are killed?

A. Yes, they are.

Q. And does that include traveling to Israel?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Agent Burns, of the faxes that the Defendant 

Mohammad El-Mezain received regarding Hamas, were any of them 

in handwriting; in other words, not a printed report like we 

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have seen so far?

A. There were a few that were in handwriting.

Q. If you can turn to page 152.

A. Okay.

Q. What language is that in?

A. That is in Arabic.

Q. Is there a translation done?

A. There is.

Q. And if you will turn to page 154, please. Is this 

document -- Does this translation identify where this fax came 

from or the information came from?

A. Can I see the full page just to confirm? On the 

translation it does not, but on the original it has a date and 

time stamp, and then apparently from the fax machine Gaza 

Press is located.

Q. Do you know anything about the Gaza Press?

A. Nothing.

Q. Were there additional faxes from the Gaza Press?

A. There may have been one or two.

Q. Turn to page 158. This is a translation of one. Is this 

also from the Gaza Press?

A. It is.

Q. Do these items from the Gaza Press also discuss Hamas?

A. They do.

Q. And even after -- What is the date of this one?

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A. May 20th, 1995.

Q. Did the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain continue to receive 

faxes, communiques in the same nature of the ones that we have 

been discussing?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Up through when? When was the last one that the 

FBI has?

A. The last fax that we have that is being exhibited? 

Q. Yes. 

A. Sorry. The last one in my collection is out of date 

order, so bear with me. I want to be accurate.

Q. If it will be easier, let me just hand you the exhibit. 

A. Okay. Thank you. The latest date that we are exhibiting 

is June 28th, 1995.

Q. Okay. You can put that down.

A. Okay.

Q. Agent Burns, did you come across anything in the Holy 

Land Foundation material where suicide bombers were discussed?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you HLF Search No. 28?

A. I do.

Q. What is that document?

A. This is a transcript of an audiotape.

Q. Was the audiotape found at the HLF?

A. It was.

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Q. What is the date? Do you have a date for it?

A. I don't believe I do. Let me check my cheat sheet. It 

discusses acts inside it that allow you to know that it 

happened after a certain date, but the tape itself was not 

dated.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's exhibit HLF Search No. 28. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Objection, Your Honor; unless we 

have some idea of time.

THE COURT: She says you can tell from the tape. 

Overrule that objection. Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, from the content of this 

audiotape are you able to determine the date?

A. I think it was approximately 1996.

Q. Why do you say that?

A. Again, because of the content of the tape. It discusses 

several Hamas activities, including some suicide bombers and 

also a martyr Yehia Ayyash.

Q. Who is that?

A. He was known as the engineer. He was Hamas bomb maker 

basically, and he was killed in early 1996.

Q. So does the content of the tape discuss him being dead 

already?

A. Yes, it does.

Q. So if this is 1996 or later, is this after or before 

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Hamas was first designated as a terrorist organization by the 

United States?

A. After.

Q. How many pages does the translation go for?

A. The translation is eight and a half pages long.

Q. I am not going to have you read it, but have you read 

this prior to testifying today?

A. I have.

Q. Could you just generally summarize what this is about?

MR. DRATEL: Objection, Your Honor.

MS. HOLLANDER: Objection, Your Honor. That calls 

for a narrative from the witness. We ask for a question to 

the witness.

THE COURT: Overrule that objection. You may 

summarize.

THE WITNESS: Okay. The content of the tape, it 

includes songs, and in there they are praising people like the 

engineer bomb maker Yehia Ayyash. On page 4 they discuss 

several individuals who are involved in a bombing, Raed 

Zakarnah Amar Amarnah, things like that. In here they praise 

martyrdom, they praise these acts, and describe them as 

heroes.

Q. What language was the audiotape in?

A. Arabic.

Q. So this is an English translation done by the FBI?

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A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. Where was this found again?

A. This was found in the HLF offices.

Q. Do you know which office?

A. I do not know.

Q. Dallas or New Jersey is my question. 

A. I can't tell from the transcript.

Q. Okay. In addition to the communiques seized by the 

Defendant El-Mezain regarding the suicide bombing, were there 

other calls -- We played one call so far. Were there other 

calls where the Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain gets a call about 

a suicide bombing?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you El-Mezain Wiretap No. 7?

A. I do.

Q. And who are the participants on this call?

A. Mohammad El-Mezain and Riyad Mustafa, also known as Abu 

Ahmad.

Q. What is the date of this call?

A. February 25th, 1996.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's Exhibit El-Mezain Wiretap No. 7. 

THE COURT: And that is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play that call, please. 

(Whereupon, El-Mezain Wiretap No. 7 was played, 

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while questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Can you identify who the UM, AB, and MO 

are?

A. UM is an unknown male, AB is Abu Ahmad, and MO is the 

Defendant Mohammad El-Mezain.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, did something happen on that date in 

Tel Aviv? 

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: If we can pull up Demonstrative No. 14 

again. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you see the February 

25th, 1996 Jerusalem No. 18 suicide bus bombing?

A. I do.

Q. What was the date of the call in relation to that 

bombing?

A. It was the same day. And just to note, I think we said 

Tel Aviv. It was Jerusalem instead. That was the city.

Q. I am sorry. 

Agent Burns, do you -- In reviewing the body of material 

that you reviewed, the search warrant material and everything 

else, did you come across something that was called a Fatwa? 

A. I did.

Q. Do you know what a Fatwa is?

A. It is basically an edict, a religious ruling.

Q. And do you have before you what has been marked as HLF 

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Search No. 29?

A. I do.

Q. Where did that document come from?

A. This came from the HLF San Diego office, which is the 

office of the Defendant El-Mezain.

Q. And was it in a loose piece of paper? A folder? How did 

you find it?

A. There was a folder containing several documents, and the 

exhibit is the front cover of the folder and one of the 

documents that was contained therein.

Q. What was the label on the folder?

A. HLF Fatwa, which means HLF edicts.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 29. 

MR. DRATEL: Objection; hearsay grounds, Your Honor.

THE COURT: And that is overruled, and HLF Search 

No. 29 is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put the first page on the 

screen, please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this that we are looking at?

A. That is a copy of the front cover of the folder. You can 

see on the tab there at the top where it says HLF Fatwa.

MR. JONAS: The next page, please. 

THE WITNESS: And that is the translation of the 

folder cover.

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MR. JONAS: Okay. Next page, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) This page that you see here, what is it 

entitled?

A. Fatwa.

Q. Was this found in English or Arabic?

A. This page was originally in English. 

Q. Can you read this document please?

A. Yes. It says, "Paying zakat to those who work to restore 

the Shar'a of Allah.

"We believe that the meaning of, 'in the path of Allah,' 

includes supporting Islamic da'wa and making the word of Allah 

high (prevail). This is strongly supported because it is a 

general term that includes jihad with arms to fight the 

enemies which is more important than other things. The same 

term also includes everything that pleases Allah because of 

the term's generality, and there is nothing to support its 

specificity to jihad only, therefore it remains a general term 

that includes all interests of Muslims, especially anything 

that makes them victorious.

"There is no doubt that working to restore Islamic life 

and to re-establish the Islamic state is a tremendous task and 

a duty on everyone, to the best of his or her abilities, and 

if the first opinion or meaning of them in the path of Allah 

is applied to today's situation, it would mean to support 

every effort that stops Kufr and its regimes and 

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re-establishes the Islamic state.

"It is therefore allowed to pay zakat to those parties, 

groups, and Islamic societies in the West, for example, 

because they aspire to restore Islamic life, erase Kufr 

regimes, and replace them with the sharia'a of Allah. It is 

in fact enough that they would most likely influence the 

realization of that goal even in a partial manner, for that 

partially would grow through the years to become big, and at 

that time zakat will be paid to every action that could be 

considered as a means to reach that goal, because means are 

considered that same as goals, and whatever is a precondition 

or requirement to a duty 'wajid' is considered a duty 'wajid' 

provided that means themselves or Islamically lawful. This 

opinion is supported by Sayid Rashid Rida, Dr. Yousef El 

Karadawi, Sheikh Sayid Sabiq, and others."

Q. Agent Burns, I am going to put back up on the easel 

Government's HLF Search No. 87. I don't know if you can see 

that. 

A. I can.

Q. Okay. What is this document again?

A. That is a list of the HLF's overseas speakers.

Q. The name of the person on the bottom of HLF Search No. 

29, the Fatwa that you just read, Yousef El Karadawi, is his 

name anywhere on this overseas speaker list?

A. It is, No. 65, second from the bottom there.

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Q. I see that the last name spelled slightly differently. 

A. Again, it is just a phonetic translation. It is 

pronounced the same way. 

Q. Did you find anything else in HLF Search No. 29, the 

Fatwas, that are connected to the Defendants?

A. Yes. There was a note attached to this or with this 

Fatwa.

Q. Was the note in English or Arabic?

A. It was in Arabic.

Q. Did you have it translated?

A. I did.

MR. JONAS: If we can put the note on the page, 

please, page 4. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Is that it?

A. That is the Arabic version.

MR. JONAS: Page 5, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) If you can read that. 

A. Yes. It says, "Honorable brother/Rasmi Al Mallah, Abu 

Omar, may God protect him." 

After greetings it says, "My greetings to you and to all 

the brothers working with you in the school. Attached with 

this are the copies of the edicts as requested by brother 

Marawan. May God reward him, all that is good, to be sent to 

brother Mufid. 

"Asking the Almighty One to make you benefit from them 

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and to bring goodness to your hands. 

"Your brother, Abu Ibrahim. 

"12/1/1999."

Q. And was Hamas designated as a terrorist organization at 

this point?

A. It was.

Q. Have you ever seen -- Again, in the body of material that 

you reviewed from the search warrants, did you come across 

anything else involving Qaradawi?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as HLF Search 

No. 30?

A. I do.

Q. What is that item?

A. It is a clipping from a newspaper that includes a 

photograph of Qaradawi.

Q. Okay. Where was it found?

A. At the HLF New Jersey office.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's Exhibit HLF Search No. 30.

MR. WESTFALL: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Put that on the screen, please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, there is writing on the 

bottom. Do you see that?

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A. I do.

Q. What language is that writing?

A. In Arabic.

Q. Does that Arabic writing describe who is in this picture?

A. It does.

Q. Is that translated?

A. It was.

Q. Do you have the translation before you?

A. On page 2.

Q. Agent Burns, if you can read the translation you have 

while we keep the picture on the screen. 

A. Okay. The caption under the photo says, "Sheik Hasan 

Nasrallah is between the Muslim Egyptian preacher Sheik Yussif 

al-Qaradawi and the official in Hamas movement Khaled Mishal 

during their partition in the Islamic National Conference in 

Beirut on Friday (Reuters.)".

Q. Have we seen Khalid Mishal in this case before?

A. We have.

Q. For the record, I am putting up Demonstrative No. 17. Is 

he on this chart of Hamas leaders in the '90s?

A. He is closest to me on the top row.

Q. The individual I am pointing to?

A. That is correct.

Q. And then on this picture where would he be on this 

newspaper clipping that was found in New Jersey?

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A. He is on the left.

Q. According to the translation you read, which one would be 

Yousef Qaradawi?

A. The individual on the right with the glasses.

Q. Was there anything else, any other pictures or anything 

of that nature found at the New Jersey office that references 

any Hamas leaders?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you what has been marked as HLF Search 

No. 31?

A. I do.

Q. And without describing the contents, what is that 

document?

A. It is a flier that was taken from the HLF New Jersey 

office containing photographs of a Hamas individual.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence HLF Search No. 31.

MR. WESTFALL: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put that on the screen, 

please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Was this in English when the FBI found 

it?

A. It was.

Q. What does this say?

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A. It says it was published by the Islamic Association for 

Palestine in North America. And to the right you can see 

where it says, "One year anniversary of imprisonment Ahmed 

Yassin." And it indicates he was imprisoned May 18, 1989 

through May 18, 1990, which would be the date of this because 

his imprisonment extended past that date.

Q. What year was this found?

A. This was found in December of 2001 in Abdulrahman Odeh's 

office. 

MR. JONAS: One moment, Your Honor? 

THE COURT: Yes. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, could we take our recess at 

this time? I know it is a few minutes early, but I just need 

to confirm one thing.

THE COURT: Let's take a recess. Be back at 3:30. 

(Whereupon, the jury left the courtroom.)

THE COURT: All right. We are in recess until 3:30.

(Brief recess.)

THE COURT: Mr. Jonas? 

MR. JONAS: Thank you, sir.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, we were talking about items 

found in New Jersey office of HLF. 

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have with you HLF Search No. 32?

A. I believe that is a videotape.

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Q. Do you know where that videotape was found?

A. The HLF New Jersey office.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

HLF Search No. 32. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: I offered Baker Wiretap No. 7 and 

El-Mezain Wiretap No. 7. I wanted to make sure I also offered 

No. 7-A.

THE COURT: And you had not, so you are offering No. 

7-A? 

MR. JONAS: Right.

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play HLF Search No. 32. 

(Whereupon, HLF Search No. 32 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, are you able to date this 

videotape? 

A. This videotape came from the period of the first 

Intifada, so sometime between 1989 and 1992.

Q. Agent Burns, you said you were able to date it 

approximately '89 to '92, but when was this tape seized?

A. December of 2001.

Q. Agent Burns, were there any phone calls intercepted by 

the FBI between the Defendants where they discussed any Hamas 

leaders in the news? 

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A. Yes.

Q. Do you have before you Baker Wiretap No. 37?

A. I do.

Q. And what is that?

A. This is a phone call between Defendants Shukri Abu Baker 

and Ghassan Elashi.

Q. What is the date of the phone call?

A. August 2nd, 1995.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Baker Wiretap No. 37 and 37-A. 

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play that phone call, please.

(Whereupon, Baker Wiretap No. 37 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, who is the SH and who is the 

GH?

A. SH is the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker and GH is the 

Defendant Ghassan Elashi.

Q. With regard to Hamas and their leaders, what was going on 

at this time, at the time of this call?

A. Hamas leader Mousa Abu Marzook, who we have talked about 

extensively, was arrested the end of July of 1995 in New 

York's JFK Airport by Immigration, and he was placed into 

extradition proceedings.

Q. And what was the date of this call in relationship to 

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that?

A. August 2nd, 1995, so shortly thereafter.

MS. MORENO: Your Honor, may we approach briefly? 

THE COURT: Yes. 

(The following was had outside the hearing of the 

jury.)

MS. MORENO: I actually had a question of counsel, 

because I can't tell from this particular excerpt. Is this a 

portion of the entire transcript? 

MR. JONAS: I believe so, yes. 

MS. MORENO: Okay. I wasn't sure of that, Your 

Honor, because it is a bit confusing to go back and forth. 

I would just bring to the Court's attention that I would 

in cross examination be raising a 106 issue with the witness 

on this particular transcript.

THE COURT: That is fine. You can go into it. 

MS. MORENO: I couldn't tell from my notes, but I 

thought that it was a portion, but I couldn't tell.

MR. JONAS: From a practical point, if there are 

portions that Ms. Moreno wants to raise to question Agent 

Burns and you want us to play that portion, we need to know in 

advance because we are not going to have it ready to go at 

that very second.

MS. HOLLANDER: I am assuming we can do the 106 on 

cross and just have her read them.

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MR. MYSLIWIEC: Use the transcripts.

MR. JONAS: That is fine. Of course, we may object. 

It may not meet the grounds for 106. But putting that aside, 

if you want us to play portions I need advanced notice.

MS. MORENO: I just couldn't tell, because I was 

trying to match up the different conversations. So I 

apologize, but I just wanted to clear it up.

THE COURT: All right. 

MS. MORENO: Thank you. 

(The following was had in the presence and hearing 

of the jury.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, in your review of the 

materials seized during the various search warrants, did you 

come across a particular article that was read by the 

Defendant Ghassan Elashi?

A. I did.

Q. Do you have before you InfoCom Search No. 73?

A. I do.

Q. What is that item?

A. This is a copy of the article that the Defendants Baker 

and Elashi were discussing.

Q. Where was this found?

A. At InfoCom, Ghassan Elashi's company. 

Q. When was it found?

A. In September of 2001.

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MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's exhibit InfoCom Search No. 73. 

MS. MORENO: Objection to hearsay, Your Honor.

THE COURT: That is overruled, and InfoCom Search 

No. 73 is admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Is that the copy of the article on the 

screen?

A. It is, the first half.

Q. The first half of the screen?

A. That is correct.

Q. All right. Agent Burns, were there other phone calls 

between the Defendants where they discussed Hamas being 

referenced in the media?

A. Yes.

Q. Do have before you Baker Wiretap No. 10?

A. I do.

Q. Who are the participants on that call?

A. The Defendants Shukri Abu Baker and Ghassan Elashi.

Q. And what is the date of that call?

A. August 1st, 1997.

Q. What was happening with Hamas around that time, if you 

know?

A. Two individuals had been arrested in New York in a 

bombing plot, and in the media it was initially published that 

they were part of Hamas. 

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MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's Exhibit Baker Wiretap No. 10 and 

10-A. 

MS. HOLLANDER: No further objections, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Those two exhibits are admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can play the segments of that 

call.

(Whereupon, Baker Wiretap No. 10 was played, while 

questions were propounded.)

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, could you just tell us who 

GH and SH are in this call?

A. GH is the Defendant Ghassan Elashi and SH is Shukri Abu 

Baker.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I need to do 

the housekeeping matter we talked about with Agent Burns.

THE COURT: Yes. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, I want to just have you 

identify certain exhibits, if you can, to offer them into 

evidence, but I don't believe you will be testifying about 

these particular exhibits. And if you need to see them or a 

listing of them to refresh your memory as to what they are, 

that is fine.

HLF Bank Account No. 1. 

A. That is one of the HLF's bank accounts.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

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into evidence HLF Bank Account No. 1. 

THE COURT: Any objection? Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, if I may, so we don't have 

to keep bringing these exhibits up to Agent Burns, the list 

may refresh her recollection as to what the item is, so if I 

may hand her my list.

THE COURT: All right.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 11 and HLF Search No. 12. 

A. HLF Search No. 11 is a phone bill and No. 12 is an 

Airfone bill.

Q. Whose phone bills are those?

A. The first is for the HLF and the second is for El-Mezain, 

the Defendant.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 11 

and HLF Search No. 12.

THE COURT: Those are admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Islamic Relief Account No. 1.

A. That is a bank account for the Islamic Relief Committee.

Q. Does that relate to the schedule we looked at the other 

day of the payments to the Islamic Relief Committee?

A. Yes, it is.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I would offer into evidence 

Islamic Relief Account No. 1?

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 111. 

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A. That is a videotape.

Q. Taken from where?

A. Taken from the HLF offices.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I would offer into evidence 

HLF Search No. 111.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 125. 

A. Also a videotape taken from the HLF offices.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search 

No. 125. 

THE COURT: Admitted. .

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Mushtaha Search No. 8. 

A. That is a videotape as well taken from the yard of Fawaz 

Mushtaha.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence Mushtaha Search 

No. 8. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 49?

A. These are records taken from the HLF or during the HLF 

search warrant relating to some financial transactions that we 

will be discussing.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 49.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Your Honor, we are not objecting, 

assuming that when we get a chance to look at them that they 

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are accurate.

THE COURT: All right. And you will have that 

chance. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Thank you.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Foreign Account No. 2. 

A. That would be an HLF foreign bank record.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, offer into evidence HLF 

Foreign Account No. 2.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Foreign Account No. 6?

A. That is also an HLF foreign bank account record.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, offer into evidence HLF 

Foreign Account No. 6.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: I apologize for jumping around, Agent 

Burns. My list isn't in a great order. HLF Search No. 62. 

A. These are documents seized during the HLF search warrant 

relating to financial transactions that we will discuss.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I offer into evidence HLF 

Search No. 62.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 76?

A. This is correspondence relating to an organization to 

whom the HLF was sending money, seized during an HLF search 

warrant.

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MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 76.

THE COURT: Admitted. .

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 84?

A. This is a manual relating to an entity to whom the HLF 

was sending money taken from the HLF search warrant.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 84.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 83?

A. This is material taken from the HLF search warrant 

relating to an individual within whom the HLF had a financial 

relationship.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 83.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 82?

A. These are documents taken from the HLF or during the HLF 

search warrant relating to an entity with whom the HLF had 

financial connections.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 82. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 81?

A. Same thing. HLF search warrant material that relates to 

financial transactions with an entity. 

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 81.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 62. I am sorry Before I 

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do that -- I am trying to keep some sort of order here. HLF 

Search No. 77? 

A. This is a document taken during the HLF search warrant 

relating to an entity with whom the HLF had financial 

transactions.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 77.

THE COURT: Admitted. .

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 75?

A. This is a videotape taken from the HLF offices.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 75.

MS. HOLLANDER: We will have objections later, Your 

Honor.

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 70?

A. This is also a videotape taken during the HLF search 

warrant.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 70. 

THE COURT: Okay. Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: HLF Search No. 62. 

THE COURT: I think you started off with No. 62. I 

show that in.

MR. JONAS: Thank you, sir.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 49. 

MR. JONAS: I am sorry, Your Honor. I am told that 

is already in. 

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THE COURT: Yes. 

MR. JONAS: That saves that one.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 125. 

MR. JONAS: That is in? 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Okay. HLF Search No. 113? 

A. This is a videotape taken during the HLF search warrant.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 

113.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 109. I think that one is 

in. HLF Search No. 105? 

A. This is material taken during the HLF search warrant 

relating to the Islamic Center of Gaza.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 

105.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 32. 

THE COURT: I show that one in.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Okay. HLF Search No. 36. 

A. HLF Search No. 36 are documents relating to financial 

transactions taken from the HLF during the search warrant.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 36.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 28?

MS. HOLLANDER: It is in.

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MR. JONAS: Okay. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 31?

A. This is a set of correspondence from the Defendant Shukri 

Abu Baker taken during the InfoCom search warrant.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 31.

THE COURT: Admitted. .

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 47? 

A. These are documents relating to HLF financial 

transactions taken from InfoCom.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 47.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 58 through 65. 

A. InfoCom Search? 

Q. Yes. InfoCom Search No. 58 through 65.

A. Okay. InfoCom Search No. 58 through 64 are letters 

relating to entities with whom the HLF had a financial 

relationship.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence InfoCom search 58, 

59, 60, 61, 62, 63, and 64. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Your Honor, so I don't have to keep 

getting up, we may have objections to all of these that we 

will raise at a later time. 

THE COURT: We will give you that opportunity. 

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Those are admitted for now. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Thank you.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 65?

A. That is a videotape taken from InfoCom.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 65.

THE COURT: That is admitted. .

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 79. 

A. This is also a videotape taken during the InfoCom search 

warrant.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 79. 

THE COURT: Admitted. .

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Elbarasse Search No. 22. 

A. This is a letter to the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker taken 

during the Elbarasse search warrant. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I offer into evidence 

Elbarasse Search No. 22. 

THE COURT: Admitted. .

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Okay. Baker Wiretap No. 13 and 13-A. 

A. This is a conversation that was recorded during the Baker 

Wiretap No. 13 that was from January of 1997. 

MR. JONAS: Okay. Your Honor I offer into evidence 

Baker Wiretap No. 13 and 13-A. 

MS. HOLLANDER: It was a conversation? I thought it 

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was a fax. Is it a fax? 

THE WITNESS: I am sorry. It is a fax. There is no 

13-A. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I offer into evidence Baker 

Wiretap No. 13. 

THE COURT: All right. And that is admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Baker Wiretap 34 and 34-A. I think if 

you go to the very back you may find it. 

A. This is a conversation, the transcript and audio for a 

conversation from Shukri Abu Baker's wiretap dated December 

2nd, 1999.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence Baker Wiretap No. 

34 and 34-A. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Baker Wiretap No. 38 and 38-A. 

A. This is also a conversation recorded on the Shukri Abu 

Baker wiretap from December 3rd, 1999.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence Baker Wiretap No. 

38 and 38-A. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And finally El-Mezain Wiretap No. 13. 

A. No. 13 and 13-A are the transcript and audio of a 

conversation captured on the El-Mezain wiretap dated October 

28, 1994. 

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence El-Mezain Wiretap 

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No. 13 and 13-A. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Okay. Your Honor, thank you very much. 

That takes care of that housekeeping matter.

THE COURT: All right.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, you have identified a number 

of ways that the HLF and individual Defendants have raised 

funds. Did you examine where those funds went? 

A. I did.

Q. Okay. Did you create schedules of where those funds 

went?

A. I assisted in creating schedules, yes.

Q. Can you tell us how you divided that up?

A. Yes. In preparing the schedules, we made them similar to 

those charts that we talked about earlier on where there was a 

line for each transaction, and they were in chronological 

order with the date being first, the payee, you know, all 

those different things on the chart.

Q. I am sorry. I don't think my question was clear. 

A. I am sorry.

Q. That is okay. It is my fault. Did you create schedules 

for every penny that the HLF sent?

A. No, we did not.

Q. Did you just focus exclusively on where some of the money 

went?

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A. Yes.

Q. How did you identify where to focus on where some of that 

money went?

A. We looked at the primary recipients of the HLF's money, 

organizations in the West Bank and Gaza primarily, and 

identified specific entities that we focused on.

Q. For purposes of your testimony, did you create a chart 

with some of these entities that the HLF sent money to in the 

West Bank and Gaza Strip?

A. We did.

Q. Do you have before you those charts which are identified 

as payments to certain organizations?

A. I do.

Q. Let's take the first one which is marked Payments to 

IC/Hebron. Do you have that before you?

A. I do.

Q. And what is that based on?

A. The chart is based on bank records and search warrant 

material.

Q. Does this chart summarize the search warrant material and 

the bank records that support these financial transactions?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence exhibit marked Payments to IC/Hebron. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Your Honor, again, these are going 

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to come up later, and we would like to reserve our objections.

THE COURT: That is admitted conditionally. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Thank you, Your Honor. 

THE COURT: You have that under your summary charts? 

Is that where you have it listed? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, sir.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what does it say on the 

sticker?

A. The sticker says Payments to IC/Hebron.

Q. And on the top of the chart what does it say?

A. Payments to Islamic Charitable Society/Hebron.

Q. Was Islamic Charitable Society too big to fit on the 

sticker?

A. It was.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

the into evidence the summary chart Payments to IC/Hebron. 

THE COURT: And that is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we could put the first page on the 

screen, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) This chart is based upon bank records and 

search warrant material, Agent Burns?

A. That is correct.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I will move into evidence 

those items. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what is HLF Search No. 33? 

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A. Those are search warrant materials that relate to the 

transaction on this schedule.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I will offer into evidence 

HLF Search No. 33.

THE COURT: Why don't just you have her identify 

each of those that are supporting documents, and we will do 

that all at once.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) I know some of them repeat, but can you 

say them one time?

A. Okay. I will try. And I don't have a list of what has 

already been admitted, so bear with me. 

HLF Bank Account No. 3 would be an HLF bank account. 

InfoCom Search No. 13 would be records obtained from InfoCom 

during the search warrant relating to these transactions. 

If we can scroll down. I think those are all the same 

exhibits. 

If we could go to the next page. InfoCom Search No. 12 

are records obtained during the InfoCom search warrant that 

relate to this transaction. HLF Bank Account No. 1, again, 

bank records of the HLF relating to these transactions. 

If we can go to -- I am looking to see if there are any 

additional exhibits. Page 4.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see any foreign bank accounts?

A. I just found one on page 4. The Islamic charity account, 

which would be bank records relating to the Islamic Charitable 

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Society of Hebron.

Q. Okay. 

A. I see a Bank One WRES. It would be bank records relating 

to these transactions.

Q. Okay. 

MS. HOLLANDER: Can you say that again, please? I 

am sorry. I was writing the last one.

THE WITNESS: It says Bank One WRES at the bottom of 

page 4.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Is that supposed to be wires?

A. It probably is. I can't see the I on my copy.

Q. Is that all you identified?

A. I want to make sure there are no others on page 7. That 

appears to be it.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence I think the ones that have not been admitted 

already, HLF Search No. 33, InfoCom Search No. 12, Bank One 

Wires, the exhibit number is Bank One Wires, the Islamic 

Charity Account, which is a bank account for the Islamic 

charitable account of Hebron.

THE WITNESS: Excuse me, Mr. Jonas. This chart is 

quite lengthy, so just bear with me for a second. There was 

HLF Foreign Account No. 4 we have not mentioned, which are HLF 

foreign bank records relating to these transactions. And I 

believe HLF Foreign Account No. 5, again an HLF foreign bank 

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record relating to these transactions.

MR. JONAS: So I offer in addition HLF Foreign 

Account No. 4 and 5?

THE WITNESS: And I see HLF Foreign Account No. 6 

and 8, again relating to this.

MR. JONAS: And HLF Foreign Account No. 6 and 8. 

THE COURT: Why don't you take some time and just 

put -- I am not sure I have it all right.

MR. JONAS: Can I propose another way? I have got a 

little bit of a cheat sheet of my own. If I can just go 

through those with Agent Burns. And this covers not just this 

schedules but the additional schedules I am about to show her.

THE COURT: At some point, so counsel can have all 

this written down. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I was just requested to go 

slow. So I am going to try to admit all the bank records and 

the search warrant material that support the financial 

transactions, get them out of the way, and then I will move 

onto the schedules.

THE COURT: Right.

MR. JONAS: Thank you, sir.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you still have the 

exhibit list that I handed you before so you can identify what 

these documents are as we go through them?

A. Yes, I do.

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MR. JONAS: And I apologize, Your Honor, if I 

identify something that has already been admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, InfoCom Search No. 77?

A. These are documents relating to financial transactions of 

the HLF.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 77. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MS. MORENO: Counsel, are we still on the IC/Hebron? 

MR. JONAS: No, ma'am. I am just admitting all the 

financials now, both search warrant and bank accounts, to 

cover all the schedules that are coming up in the next few 

minutes.

MS. HOLLANDER: And these are part of the 

conditional admissions? 

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 48. 

A. Documentation relating to the HLF's financial 

transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 48.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Foreign Account No. 2. 

A. That is an HLF foreign bank account.

Q. When you say foreign bank account, can you describe what 

you mean?

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A. A bank account that the HLF had somewhere else, and in 

this instance it would be either the West Bank or Gaza.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Foreign 

Account No. 2. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 19?

A. Documents relating to the HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 19.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 41?

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions. 

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 41.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, HLF Foreign Account No. 4 

and 5 are in?

THE COURT: Yes. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 21?

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions. 

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 21. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Islamic Association of Gaza Account. 

A. That is a foreign bank record relating to the Islamic 

Association in Gaza with which the HLF had financial 

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transactions. 

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence Islamic Association 

of Gaza Account.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 43. 

A. Documents relating to the HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 43. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 57. 

A. This is a videotape.

Q. Does it pertain to financial transactions in any way?

A. It does. It relates to financial transactions at the 

HLF.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 57?

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 33?

A. I am sorry. You said No. 33? 

Q. HLF Search No. 33. 

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 33.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 13?

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: I Offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

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No. 13. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: InfoCom Search No. 12 I believe, Your 

Honor, I offered a little while ago.

THE WITNESS: This is a newspaper article.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 12?

A. According to this list.

MR. JONAS: Then I will not offer that one if that 

is what it is.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Islamic Charity Account. 

MR. JONAS: I believe that one I offered already. 

THE COURT: You had offered 12 and 13. So are you 

withdrawing No. 12? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, sir. I am withdrawing No. 12.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Islamic Relief Account, which may also be 

in, I believe. InfoCom Search No. 74. 

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 74. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 45.

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 45. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 35. 

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A. Documents you relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: I Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 35.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 14. 

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 14.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, just explain to us why there 

are various InfoCom search exhibits and HLF search exhibits 

that relate to financial transactions, how you broke it out. 

A. Well, generally there is a separate exhibit if there is a 

separate item. For the financial schedules, we tried to 

combine all the materials from one search location that 

related to financial transactions with a particular entity 

into one exhibit.

Q. Okay. So if it is an HLF search number that is financial 

transactions, that particular one would relate to one 

particular schedule that we are going to talk about?

A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. Jenin Zakat Account No. 1? 

A. That would be foreign bank record for the Jenin zakat, 

which is an entity with which the HLF had financial dealings.

Q. Same for Jenin Zakat Account No. 3?

A. That is correct.

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MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I offer into evidence Jenin 

Zakat Account No. 1 and Jenin Zakat Account No. 3?

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 37?

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence HLF Search No. 37.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 15?

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 15.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Nablus Zakat Account No. 1 and Nablus 

Zakat Account No. 2, two separate exhibits? 

A. Those are bank account records for the Nablus zakat, 

which is an entity for which the HLF had financial dealings. 

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence Nablus Zakat Account 

No. 1 and Nablus Zakat Account No. 2. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Tulkarm Zakat Account No. 1? 

A. That is a foreign bank record for an entity with which 

the HLF had financials transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence Tulkarem Zakat 

Account No. 1. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 18? 

A. Those are financial documents relating to an entity with 

which the HLF dealt.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 18. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Qalqilia Zakat Account No. 1 and Qalqilia 

Zakat Account No. 3?

A. Those are bank records relating to an entity with which 

the HLF had financial dealings.

Q. Two separate accounts?

A. That is correct.

MR. JONAS: I offer into evidence Qalqilia Zakat 

Account No. 1 and Qalqilia Zakat Account No. 3. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Also Qalqilia Zakat Account No. 2.

THE COURT: Those are admitted.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 40? 

A. Financial documents relating to HLF transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 40.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 39?

A. Financial documents relating to HLF transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 39.

THE COURT: Admitted. .

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) HLF Search No. 38?

A. Financial documents relating HLF transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence HLF Search No. 38. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 16?

A. Documents relating to HLF financial transactions.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 16. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) InfoCom Search No. 17?

A. The same thing.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence InfoCom Search 

No. 17.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Tulkarem Zakat Account No. 3?

A. That is a foreign bank record for an entity with which 

the HLF had financial dealings.

MR. JONAS: Offer into evidence Tulkarem Zakat 

Account No. 3. 

THE COURT: How do you spell that? 

MR. JONAS: T-U-L-K-A-R-E-M.

THE COURT: Which ones did you offer? 

MR. JONAS: Tulkarem Zakat Account No. 3.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I think that is all I have. 

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I appreciate the Court's patience. I think this will save 

time down the road. In the event that I missed one or two, I 

will just come back later on and ask if we can admit them.

THE COURT: All right. 

MR. JONAS: If we can get back to the schedules, 

Payments to Islamic Charitable Society/Hebron schedule on the 

screen, please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, could you just walk us 

through again and remind us how this schedule is set up? 

A. Yes. This schedule deals specifically with HLF 

transactions, financial transactions with an entity called the 

Islamic Charitable Society of Hebron. And the columns are 

organized by date of the transaction the first column. The 

second column is the source, who the payment was from. And on 

this chart all of the payments will be from the Holy Land 

Foundation. The next column is like we saw in some of those 

earlier charts, for the authorization it will note either a 

check number or it will note that it was a wire transaction, 

and if certain individuals were linked to that transaction 

they are noted in this column. Next we have an amount column. 

Generally you will have one number indicating the amount of 

the transaction. 

As we spoke about earlier, in the later years sometimes 

large transactions, large wire transfers were made to the 

HLF's foreign bank accounts. And from that smaller amounts 

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would be distributed to the ultimate recipient, so in that 

instance you may see a larger amount with a slash and then the 

smaller amount that actually ended up with the committee that 

is the subject of the chart.

Q. And how would you determine how much went from the HLF 

foreign account to the committee?

A. It could be -- We might look at the HLF foreign bank 

records, if those indicate what exactly went. Also we looked 

at the internal search warrant documents to see where they 

said the money was actually supposed to end up.

Q. Okay. 

A. The next column is the destination. That is to whom the 

payment was made. And on this chart these should all be the 

same recipient, the Islamic Charitable Society of Hebron. And 

it notes there if there is a bank account affiliated with that 

committee that we could identify, it will be in this column as 

well. 

Finally, the last column is your reference column. That 

has all the exhibits noted with page numbers where you can go 

and actually see the evidence that we used to create this 

specific transaction on this chart.

Q. On the top, the first transaction, May 1st, 1991 under 

the exhibit number where it says HLF Search No. 33. 

A. Yes.

Q. Could you explain that in conjunction with the question I 

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asked you earlier about the search warrant material and how 

you organized it to support your charts?

A. Yes. There was a large volume of material that we 

gathered from the various search warrants, especially the HLF 

search warrant, that related to financial transactions. In 

order to try to make it more understandable, we tried to 

select all of the items that related to the HLF's financial 

transactions with the Islamic Charitable Society of Hebron and 

made those documents one exhibit. In this case that exhibit 

is HLF Search No. 33. So that exhibit is going to contain a 

number of HLF search warrant documents that will go to support 

what is stated in this schedule.

Q. So would there be any financial records from the search 

warrant pertaining to payments to any other zakat committee in 

HLF Search No. 33?

A. There could be, if a specific page from the search 

warrant material dealt with multiple transactions. So you may 

see a document that deals with HLF transactions with a number 

of entities on a specific page, but, you know, that is how it 

was.

Q. Would that also include, then, that particular document, 

as an example, of payment to Islamic Charitable Society of 

Hebron?

A. Yes.

Q. There is also InfoCom Search No. 13. Would you explain 

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that?

A. Yes. We did the exactly same thing with the InfoCom 

search warrant material. We tried to take all documents that 

were seized in the InfoCom search warrant that related to 

transactions on this schedule and make them one exhibit. In 

this case that exhibit would be InfoCom Search No. 13.

Q. So, for example, when we go to another schedule we would 

see HLF search 34, and that would pertain to that particular 

zakat committee?

A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. Let's look at -- Let's pick the transaction 

October 31st, 1991 for $17,600 and look at the supporting 

documentation. 

MR. JONAS: If we can pull up InfoCom Search No. 13, 

page 10. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And can you explain that?

A. Yes. This document was again found at InfoCom, and it 

notes -- It is what they call a project summary report for the 

HLF, and on it it notes that it sent -- If you look at the 

bottom under payment method, full payment, amount granted 

$17,600. And if you look up above, the organization that was 

supposed to receive it under organization is the Islamic 

Charity Society at Hebron. And below that it indicates what 

the money was supposed to go toward.

MR. JONAS: And if we can turn to HLF Bank Account 

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No. 3, page 126. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is this item?

A. This is the actual check that was issued by Ghassan 

Elashi for the HLF transaction with the Islamic Charity 

Society of Hebron in the amount of $17,600.

Q. Okay. This check is made out to cash, though.

A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. How do you know it went to the Islamic Charitable 

Society of Hebron?

A. There are several ways. Based upon the other documents 

referenced on this exhibit, it appears that they basically 

cashed the check and wire transferred the money over.

Q. And what do you see in paren next to the word cash?

A. It says Islamic Charity Society of Hebron.

Q. Pretty good clue?

A. That is one clue.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: And if we can turn to HLF Bank Account 

No. 3, page 117. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is this?

A. This is the HLF's bank statement from that time period.

Q. Would the statement reflect the $17,600 check?

A. It does. If you will look about the middle of the page, 

check No. 681, $17,600.

MR. JONAS: If we can go back to the Schedule 

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Payments to IC/Hebron schedule. Let's go to page 4. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, could you explain the double 

line that is in the middle of this page?

A. Yes. Again, these transactions are noted in 

chronological order, and we noted on the schedules the dates 

of the Hamas designation as a specially designated terrorist, 

as well as the Hamas designation as a foreign terrorist 

organization in a chronological order so that you can 

determine what transactions occurred prior to the designation 

and what transactions occurred after the designation.

Q. Let's look at the first transaction right after the 

designation. It has a tab on the right after the last column. 

A. I see that.

Q. And what does that mean?

A. In the indictment in this case, certain transactions were 

listed as part of the indictment, the charges that were made. 

If one of these transactions relates specifically to a count 

in the indictment or an overt act in the indictment, it is 

noted to the right of that transaction. 

In this instance, this particular transaction on April 

3rd, 1995 relates to Count 11 of the indictment, Overt Act 1, 

and Count 22, Overt Act 1.

Q. Why don't we look at the supporting documentation. 

MR. JONAS: If we can pull up HLF Search No. 33, 

please, page 14. 

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this on the screen?

A. This is an HLF request for transfer of funds, and it 

notes the date April 3rd, 1995, the amount $30,000, and the 

recipient Young Men Muslim Association, care of Islamic 

Charity S, which would be Islamic Charity Society in Hebron, 

signed by Ghassan Elashi and stamped Shukri Abu Baker.

MR. JONAS: Let's go to HLF Bank Account No. 1, page 

627, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, while we are waiting for 

that page to come up, were most of the transactions in the 

form of checks or wire transfers?

A. A majority were in the form of wire transfers.

Q. What is this document we are seeing here?

A. This is a copy of the wire transfer.

Q. Okay. And how do you know that this copy matches with 

that same $30,000 transaction?

A. Well, you can look at the bank statement for one, but 

actually if you are looking at this particular form, you can 

see the send date, and it says April 3rd, 1995. And if you 

look down a little bit farther it says "Okayed per S. Baker," 

which would be the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker. And continuing 

on down you can see the amount of the transaction is $30,000. 

And I believe if you go on to the next page of the wire, 

if you look at the bottom it indicates the originator of the 

wire, which is the Holy Land Foundation, and it gives bank 

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information, and then it shows the beneficiary at the bottom, 

the Islamic Charity Society.

Q. Okay. And then the last item marked on this supporting 

documentation is HLF Bank Account No. 1, page 621. And what 

is this?

A. This is a copy of the bank statement during that time 

period.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: If we can go back to the schedule. If 

we can go to page 6, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Now, there is another double line on this 

page. 

A. Yes.

Q. What is this double line?

A. This double line indicates the Hamas designation as a 

foreign terrorist organization, which occurred on October 8th, 

1997, which is different from the Hamas designation as a 

specially designated terrorist which took place on January 

23rd, 1995.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, let's look -- If you see on the 

second transaction, and then all the transactions going down 

under the destination payment to column. 

A. Yes.

Q. There were names in bold. 

A. Yes.

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Q. What does that mean?

A. If certain individuals from the recipient company could 

have been identified as being directly connected to this 

particular transaction, their names are noted under the 

destination section. 

For example on the November 7th, 1997 transaction that 

you see there, you see an individual's name in bold under the 

destination column. That individual was linked directly to 

that transaction. He is a part of the Islamic Charity of 

Hebron. And the documents referenced in the exhibit column 

will show you how he is connected to that transaction.

MR. JONAS: Let's look at that. HLF Search No. 33, 

page 54, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is this document?

A. This is a fund transfer notification from the HLF to the 

Islamic Charity Society of Hebron for the transaction 

referenced here in the amount of $21,699. At the bottom is a 

receipt.

Q. Is this document translated?

A. It is.

MR. JONAS: If we can go to page 55. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is this?

A. This is the translation of that document along with the 

receipt at the bottom. And you can see at the bottom that the 

individual Saleh Salim Abdel Nabi signed the receipt on behalf 

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of the Islamic Charity Society of Hebron. Therefore, his name 

appears in the destination column.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: Let's go to HLF Bank Account No. 1, page 

1067. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is this document?

A. This would be the bank statement for that time period for 

the HLF.

Q. Without going through -- Are the bank statements multiple 

pages?

A. Yes, they are.

Q. We won't go through every page. 

Did you also look at the bank account of the recipient, 

if you had the bank account? 

A. If we had those records available to us, we analyzed 

those as well.

MR. JONAS: Let's go to Islamic Charity Account, 

page 63. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this item?

A. This would be the item from the Islamic Charity Society 

of Hebron's account that indicated the receipt of that amount 

of money.

Q. Do you know if this page was translated?

A. It was.

MR. JONAS: Let's go to the next page, please. 

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is this?

A. This is the translation of that particular item in the 

Islamic Charity Society's bank account records showing -- If 

you will look on November 8th, 1997, a wire received in the 

amount of $21,684.

Q. The wire received is about $15 short of the wire sent. 

Do you have any idea why?

A. Wire transfer fees, generally.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: Let's go back to the schedule, please. 

Let's go to page 8. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see -- At the bottom half, do you 

see there is a transaction on August 21st, 1998?

A. I do.

Q. This is after or before Hamas was designated?

A. This is after Hamas was designated.

Q. On the far right side of this column it says Count 3 on 

this row. And what is that?

A. That means that this particular transaction is relevant 

to Count 3 in the indictment in this case.

MR. JONAS: Let's look at HLF Search No. 33, page 

148, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this item?

A. This item is a request for transfer of funds from the HLF 

to the Islamic Charity Society of Hebron in the amount of 

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$11,686. And if you will look -- Do you want me to explain 

how we get to the ultimate amount? 

Q. Sure, yes. 

A. Often you will see multiple requests for transfer of 

funds in smaller amounts, and to the same entity on the same 

date for different purposes. And if you add all those up you 

will come up with the total. This is the first page of 

several. And if you will note, to the right they had noted 

that the total of these wire transfers was going to be 

$24,211. So if you scroll on through there should be several 

more of these, and if you total them up they add up to this 

amount.

MR. JONAS: Let's look at HLF Bank Account No. 1, 

page 1363. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this document?

A. This is the record of the wire transfer itself.

Q. Does the date match up on the top right hand side?

A. It does.

MR. JONAS: If you can scroll down, and enlarge the 

center. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see the amount for the total wire?

A. Yes, the amount being $24,211.

Q. And does that match the amount on the schedule?

A. It does.

MR. JONAS: And let's look at the Islamic Charity 

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Account, page 81. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, you have the schedule in 

front of you. Is that correct?

A. I do.

Q. Am I identifying every exhibit or document identifying 

this transaction?

A. No, you are just selecting certain ones. There are more 

referenced in there that you can look at.

Q. What is this item before us, Islamic Charity Account, 

page 81, I believe?

A. This is the Arabic version of the item that indicates the 

deposit of that money to the Islamic Charitable Society's 

account.

MR. JONAS: Page 82, please.

THE WITNESS: This is the translation.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And where do you see the wire of $24,211?

A. Okay. If you will look are at the August 23rd, 1998 

entry, it notes that a wire was received in the amount of 

$24,196.

Q. Okay. Agent Burns, did you create a schedule of payments 

to an entity known as Nablus zakat committee?

A. I did.

Q. Do you have that schedule before you?

A. I do.

Q. Is this schedule a summary of the search warrant material 

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and bank records which support the transactions of this entity 

from the Holy Land Foundation?

A. Yes.

Q. And those items are now in evidence, the supporting 

items?

A. They are.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I would offer into evidence 

what has been marked as Payments to Nablus Zakat Committee. 

On the sticker it says Payments to Nablus Z. 

THE COURT: Any objections? The same? 

MS. HOLLANDER: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: That is admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, is there anything different 

about the way this chart is set up from the last one?

A. No. This chart is set up the same way as the last one.

Q. Okay. Why don't we look at a transaction that is on the 

page, October 31st, 1991 for $11,600.

A. Okay.

Q. Where did this one go to?

A. This payment went to the Nablus zakat committee.

Q. Do you see where it says -- Under destination it says 

"Cash (Nablus zakat committee), then it says "Arab Bank UK" 

and "Tulkarem account" underneath that. Can you explain that?

A. Yes. There was -- Some of these committees have a 

relationship, and in this instance the money actually went to 

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a bank account under the Tulkarem zakat committee's name.

Q. How do you know or why do you have it under the Nablus 

zakat committee schedule?

A. Because the search warrant material and the note on the 

check indicate that the money was ultimately determined for 

the Nablus zakat committee.

Q. This says Tulkarem zakat had an account at the Arab Bank 

U.K. What and where is that?

A. That is in the United Kingdom in England, I believe in 

London.

Q. Did several of the zakat committees have bank accounts in 

London?

A. That would be in the early 1990s they did.

MR. JONAS: InfoCom search page 56, please. I am 

sorry. InfoCom Search No. 15, page 56. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this document?

A. This is a piece of correspondence in Arabic taken from 

InfoCom relating to this transaction.

Q. Was this translated?

A. It was.

MR. JONAS: If we can turn to the next page, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what is this?

A. This is notification of a transfer of money from the HLF 

signed by Haitham Maghawri. The date at the top is November 

5th, 1991, and it is addressed to the Nablus zakat committee. 

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Would you like me to read it? 

Q. No. 

Is this the translation from the prior page.

A. It is.

MR. JONAS: Okay. If we can go to HLF Bank Account 

No. 3, page 122, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) I am sorry. Before I ask you a question 

about this, does the dollar amount in that last correspondence 

match up with the dollar amount on the schedule?

A. It does.

Q. What is this on the screen?

A. This is a check signed by Ghassan Elashi on behalf of the 

Occupied Land Fund, which is the HLF, to cash for the same 

amount, $11,600, noted for the Nablus zakat committee on 

October 31st, 1991.

Q. Okay. And again, does the amount match the 

correspondence as well as what is on your schedule?

A. It does.

MR. JONAS: Let's go to page 4, please, the second 

transaction. I am sorry. My mistake. Back to the schedule 

Payments to Nablus Zakat. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) The second transaction from the top dated 

November 20th, 1996, this is after Hamas is designated?

A. That is correct.

Q. Without going to it on the prior page of the schedule, do 

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you have this double line identifying the date that Hamas is 

designated?

A. Yes, we do.

Q. Is that on every schedule you have?

A. Yes.

Q. I don't need to keep asking you about it, do I?

A. Yes.

Q. Yes, I do?

A. No.

Q. Okay. This particular payment, what is the date and the 

amount?

A. The November 20th, 1996 transaction is from the HLF to 

the Nablus zakat in the amount of $8,023.

Q. And this one under the authorization says, "Wire okay per 

policy, Mohamad Tahir." Do you know who that is or what that 

means?

A. It is -- We would have to pull up the item to really 

explain specifically what okay per policy means, but Mohamad 

Tahir was a representative of the HLF.

MR. JONAS: If we can pull up HLF Search No. 37, 

page 44 of that exhibit. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) This is an Arabic document. Was it 

translated?

A. It was.

MR. JONAS: Go to the next page, please. 

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) And what does that document say?

A. It is addressed to the Nablus zakat committee indicating 

that $8,023 was transferred for social services, and it is 

dated November 15th, 1996.

MR. JONAS: Okay. If we can go to HLF Bank Account 

No. 1, page 873. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this document?

A. This is the wire transfer of that amount of money on that 

date.

Q. Where do you see the amount?

A. Down at the bottom. And then on the second page the 

sender and recipient are noted at the bottom. It says that 

the originator is the Holy Land Foundation and the beneficiary 

is the Nablus zakat committee, and it gives their account at 

the bottom.

MR. JONAS: If we can go to Nablus Zakat Account No. 

2, page 45. 

Your Honor, I am not sure if that account has been 

scanned in, so I will move to another transaction.

THE COURT: All right. 

MR. JONAS: It is there.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this?

A. This is the statement from the account of the Nablus 

zakat indicating this transaction. This part is in Arabic and 

then the next is in English.

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MR. JONAS: The next page, please. 

THE WITNESS: And you will see it notes again for 

the Nablus zakat committee that there was a wire on November 

24th, 1996 with a credit of $8,009.98.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: If we can go back to the schedule for 

the payments in Nablus zakat, and go to page 7.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see, Agent Burns, there is a 

transaction on April 18th, 2000? 

A. I do.

Q. Who is that transaction from? Who is the originator?

A. The Holy Land Foundation. However, it is from their 

foreign bank account.

Q. Were you able to trace that wire back to Dallas as 

starting in Dallas?

A. Not this one in particular.

Q. Okay. Did you find any supporting documentation for it 

in any of the search warrant material?

A. I wasn't able to link it specifically to specific 

documentation, so that the only exhibit referenced in this is 

the actual item out of the foreign bank record.

MR. JONAS: Let's look at HLF Foreign Account No. 4, 

page 336. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) I realize that it is in Arabic, but do 

you know what that is?

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A. I do.

Q. What is that?

A. This would be the check out of the HLF foreign bank 

record for this transaction, and the next page should be the 

translation.

MR. JONAS: The next page, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) So that indicates what?

A. It indicates the transaction on April 18th, 2000 in the 

amount of $10,583 paid to gentlemen of the Nablus alms 

committee, which alms is a different translation for the word 

zakat.

Q. Did you create a schedule of payments to an entity known 

as the Tulkarem zakat committee?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I offer into evidence 

Government's Exhibit Payments to Tulkarem Zakat Committee, or 

payments to Tulkarem Z, as the sticker reflects.

MR. WESTFALL: Your Honor, just to be clear, these 

are being conditionally admitted subject to objections? 

THE COURT: Subject to your being able to review 

them, and we will take objections at that time.

MR. WESTFALL: Very well. 

THE COURT: And that is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put the first page on the 

screen. 

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, do you see the transaction 

March 14th, 1994? 

A. I do.

Q. And what does that indicate?

A. That indicates that the HLF sent $8,075 to the Tulkarem 

zakat committee on March 14th, 1995.

Q. All right. What account did it go to? Where was the 

account?

A. The account was in the United Kingdom, in England.

MR. JONAS: Let's go to HLF Search No. 39, page 11. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is this document?

A. Well, this is -- The way the records were presented to 

us, the electronic payments advice, often they were like 

multiple ones per page, so the one on top here is the one that 

is relevant to this transaction. Okay? And it shows that the 

HLF wired $6,075 to -- If you will look up here, it says to 

Arab Bank, London, England, in favor of, and there is an 

account number and Tulkarem zakat committee. So it shows that 

the HLF sent the Tulkarem zakat committee $6,075 on March 

14th, 1994, and that was to a bank account in London, England.

Q. This document itself, where did it come from?

A. This came from the HLF Dallas office from the HLF search 

warrants.

MR. JONAS: If we go to Tulkarem Zakat Account No. 

1, page 65. 

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Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what is this?

A. This is an item from the Tulkarem's bank account there in 

London, England indicating the receipt of that money that we 

were talking about.

Q. This identifies it -- This one identifies Holy Land 

Foundation. Correct?

A. It does.

Q. Agent Burns, on the last page of the schedule is there a 

total what was paid to the Tulkarem zakat from the Holy Land 

Foundation?

A. Yes. On most of the schedules you will see at the very 

end there will be a total amount sent from the HLF to the 

zakat committee, in this instance to the Tulkarem zakat 

committee.

Q. Does that total amount include both payments made before 

Hamas was designated a terrorist organization and after?

A. It does.

Q. What is the total paid to the Tulkarem zakat committee?

A. If you want to go to the last page, it is $366,585. That 

is the amount that I could identify as having gone to the 

Tulkarem zakat committee.

MR. JONAS: If we can jump back to ICS Hebron 

schedule and go to the last page as well. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) What is the total amount that the HLF 

paid to the ICS Hebron?

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A. Between April of 1991 and -- Excuse me. I have the wrong 

chart. Between May of 1991 and November 2001, the total was 

$1,674,594.

Q. And jumping to the Nablus zakat committee chart, on the 

last page what was the total?

A. From May of '91 through October of 2001, $475,715.

Q. Did you create a chart of payments to the Jenin zakat 

committee?

A. I did.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's Exhibit Payments to Jenin Zakat or 

Jenin Z. 

THE COURT: Okay. Just one of those? One chart? 

That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Thank you, sir.

MR. JONAS: If we can put the first page on the 

screen, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, if we walk through a sample 

of some of these transactions, would we be seeing the same 

documentation as we saw with the other schedules?

A. Yes. The schedule is set up just like the others, and 

the same types of documentation are used to support what is 

asserted in this chart.

Q. Agent Burns, the authorization for many of these 

transactions, and I am looking at the Jenin zakat committee 

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chart in particular, often seem to be either Ghassan Elashi or 

the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker. Is that accurate?

A. That is -- 

Q. Let me rephrase the question. I am sorry. Who 

authorized most of the transactions from the HLF to these 

zakat committees?

A. A majority of the transactions were authorized by either 

Shukri Abu Baker and/or Ghassan Elashi.

Q. Did you see other names on occasion?

A. Yes.

Q. In particular, in this chart we see the name Basman 

Elashi on some of the first few schedules, first few 

transactions. Do you know who Basman Elashi is?

A. I do.

Q. Does he have a relationship to the HLF?

A. He does.

Q. As what?

A. Well, during the early years Basman Elashi was -- we see 

him signing some of the HLF checks. He obviously had some 

power of authority over some of the financial transactions for 

the HLF. 

In addition, I believe on one of the IAP records that we 

have already introduced, he is listed as an officer. And also 

he is noted as having involvement with the ICC, which was the 

predecessor to InfoCom, the company that Ghassan Elashi was 

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affiliated with. And finally, he is the brother of the 

Defendant Ghassan Elashi.

MR. JONAS: If we can jump to page 3 on this 

schedule. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Do you see in this page all the 

authorizations say Sam Baker?

A. I do.

Q. Who is Sam Baker?

A. That is the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker. For a short time 

during the early years he used the name Sam occasionally.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: And going to the last page, page 9. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) How much did the Holy Land Foundation pay 

to the Jenin zakat committee?

A. Between May of 1991 and October of 2001, we were able to 

identify $554,500.

Q. Did you create a schedule of payments to the Ramallah 

zakat committee?

A. Yes, we did.

Q. By the way. These zakat committees we have identified so 

far, where are they located?

A. The ones that we have been discussing this afternoon are 

located in the West Bank.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

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into evidence Government's Exhibit Payments to Ramallah Zakat 

Committee. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put the first page on the 

screen.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, again, is this chart set up 

the same way as the other charts?

A. It is.

Q. Okay. And Agent Burns, how much did the Holy Land 

Foundation pay in total to the Ramallah zakat committee?

A. From September 1991 October of 2001, we were able to 

track $494,252 to the Ramallah zakat.

Q. And Agent Burns, the schedules we looked at so far all 

end in 2001? 

A. That is correct.

Q. Why is that?

A. Because the HLF ceased operations in December of 2001.

Q. Agent Burns, did you create a schedule of payments to the 

Qalqilia zakat committee?

A. We did.

Q. Could you spell Qalqilia?

A. There are is several ways you may see it spelled. The 

way we have it here is Q-A-L-Q-I-L-I-A, but you will often see 

it spelled with a Y instead of an I. 

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

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into evidence Government's Exhibit Payments to Qalqilia Zakat 

Committee schedule.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what is the total amount 

that the HLF paid to the Qalqilia zakat committee?

A. From February of 1992 October of 2001, we were able to 

track $295,187.

Q. And just for clarification purposes, do you see where it 

says in the exhibit column HLF Search No. 40?

A. I do. I see it.

Q. Is that all the internal search warrant material that was 

seized from the HLF pertaining to the financial transactions 

to the Qalqilia zakat committee?

A. It is all the records that relate to the ones that we 

found relevant in this schedule right here.

Q. All right. Agent Burns, did you create a payment of 

payments to the Islamic Science and Culture Committee?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I would offer into evidence 

Government's Exhibit Payments to Islamic Society Science and 

Culture Committee. 

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If we can put the first page on the 

screen, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what time period and how 

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much money did the Defendants HLF pay to the Islamic Science 

and Culture Committee?

A. From May 1st, 1991 through July 18th, 1996 we were able 

to track $485,468.

Q. There were no payments after Hamas was designated as a 

foreign terrorist organization. Were there any payments made 

after it was designated as a specially designated terrorist?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: Go back one page, please. 

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Are those three of the four payments on 

this page?

A. Yes. There were four payments made that we were able to 

track after the designation of Hamas as an SDT, a specially 

designated terrorist.

Q. Agent Burns, did you make a schedule of payments to the 

Islamic Society?

A. I did.

Q. Did we cover that one already in your testimony?

A. Islamic Society of Gaza, no, we did not.

Q. Do you have that schedule before you?

A. I do.

Q. Agent Burns, what is the full title of this schedule?

A. The title or the sticker? 

Q. The title.

A. Payments to Islamic Society/Islamic Association of Gaza.

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Q. Why does it have two names?

A. I think I testified earlier that the Arabic word that 

translates into society also translates into association, so 

often you will see this entity referred to as the Islamic 

Society of Gaza and the Islamic Association of Gaza.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's Exhibit Payments to Islamic 

Society/Islamic Association of Gaza. Just for the record, the 

exhibit sticker says Payments IS Associate Gaza.

THE COURT: Okay. That is admitted. 

MR. JONAS: Put the first page on the screen.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what time period and how 

much in total did the HLF pay to the Islamic Society/Islamic 

Association of Gaza?

A. From November of 1992 through August 23rd of 2001, we 

were able to track $201,196, plus an additional 68,792 Israeli 

shekels.

Q. Just so we are clear, does the $201,000 include the 

68,000 converted into dollars?

A. No, it does not.

Q. Agent Burns, did you create a schedule of payments to 

Bethlehem orphan society?

A. Yes, we did.

Q. Do you have that before you?

A. I do not believe I have that one in front of me.

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MR. JONAS: Your Honor, if I can approach?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Is that based upon the same records, bank 

accounts, search warrant material that you testified about?

A. Yes.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, at this time I would offer 

into evidence Government's Exhibit Payments to Bethlehem 

Orphan Society.

THE COURT: Admitted. 

MR. JONAS: If you can put the first page on the 

screen, please.

Q. (BY MR. JONAS) Agent Burns, what time period and how 

much in total did the HLF pay to the Bethlehem orphan society?

A. From June of 1991 through October of 2001, we were able 

to track $429,006.

Q. Okay. 

MR. JONAS: One moment, Your Honor. 

Your Honor, given the hour, I am at a real good breaking 

point.

THE COURT: Let's break here for the day. 

Be back at 9:00 tomorrow morning. Please recall the 

instructions that we have been over. 

(Whereupon, the jury left the courtroom.)

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I am just about finished 

with Agent Burns. I didn't want to pass her now because I 

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wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. So if I pass her 

in the morning, we need to deal with the issue of the 

Defendants' exhibits. I don't know if you want to do that 

tonight.

THE COURT: We can do that in the morning. Be back 

at 8:30 in the morning, and go ahead and email to Jennifer 

your objections. Do you have their list? 

MR. JONAS: We have their list.

THE COURT: So email us your objections so that I 

can go ahead and start taking a look at those, and we will 

take those up at 8:30 in the morning. 

I was a little confused when you started going through 

that list of exhibits. You need to go back and get that in a 

better -- You were bouncing around back and forth. Get that 

in a better format. But some of those are on the list you 

provided to the Defense. Right? 

MR. JONAS: Most if not all of them.

THE COURT: But you said some of them were not. Did 

I understand that? 

MR. JONAS: No, I believe all of them were. I think 

there was one document I showed Agent Burns this afternoon 

that I informed Ms. Hollander of this morning.

THE COURT: That was new? 

MR. JONAS: That was new, that I wasn't planning on 

showing Agent Burns when I created that list. I think other 

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than that, I think everything was on that list.

MS. HOLLANDER: Your Honor, we just didn't -- He had 

said that there were a lot of them that were just going to be 

offered and then we were going to deal with later, so we 

didn't deal with them yet, because we weren't able to deal 

with all of them. There is a huge amount of documents for us 

to deal with. 

THE COURT: It is true, except you have had them now 

since Sunday. I thought maybe some of this wasn't on the 

list, but if it has been there since Friday when you mailed 

the list to everybody. Of course, I didn't know that either, 

and it is confusing, just to format. 

MS. HOLLANDER: It may have been misunderstanding, 

Your Honor, but I thought we needed to deal with the ones that 

we were going to deal with this time since she is not going to 

come back for I guess -- 

THE COURT: Right. But here at the end, obviously, 

he has been dealing with some of those, and if you -- 

MS. HOLLANDER: We didn't understand he was going to 

do that. That was the confusion. We thought he was going to 

offer them and we were going to deal with them later. That 

was the confusion that I think Ms. Moreno was explaining also.

MR. JONAS: Your Honor, I explained to Ms. Hollander 

in an email -- I am not blaming anybody. Apparently there is 

a misunderstanding. I thought I was clear in the email to 

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her, and I thought I was clear earlier when I spoke with 

Defense counsel about what my plan was. 

My understanding of what their concern was that I was 

going to get into Agent Burns -- the substance of the zakat 

committees in that their relationship to Hamas. That is her 

second testimony. All I wanted to do today was just to show 

that the HLF is sending money to the zakat committees to take 

care of that, so the jury can see, "Okay. Now we have heard a 

little bit about zakat committees through Doctor Levitt. Now 

we see HLF is sending some money there," and later on we will 

get into the meat -- 

THE COURT: I think it wasn't clear. Frankly, I 

wasn't sure what you were going to do either, so it was 

unclear I think to everybody. But you are about through with 

that part of it, then? 

MR. JONAS: Yes, sir. I just want to make sure I 

haven't missed anything, and then if I have I will cover it 

first thing in the morning. If I have not missed anything, I 

will pass her.

THE COURT: Go back through and group those 

exhibits. You know, you bounced back and forth, InfoCom 

Search and then go to something else and come back to InfoCom 

and back to HLF. Just get us a list of everything that is 

there. That may be what you have here. I don't know. I 

couldn't keep up with the way you were going.

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MR. JONAS: I apologize.

THE COURT: I am going to have to go back and do 

that. But I would rather you just furnish me something like 

that, and then I can go back and check that and make sure what 

is in is in, and that way I will have a good record of it.

MR. JONAS: Yes, sir. There is a method to that 

madness. I know it seems like it is crazy, but they all 

relate -- I did it by zakat committee.

THE COURT: Right. But when you are admitting them, 

it is just easier -- I mean, nobody knew that method at the 

time, and it was just very confusing.

MR. JONAS: I understand, sir. I also realize it 

was very boring for the jury.

THE COURT: That, too. But I mean, it just made it 

hard for us, I think for everybody to keep up in terms of what 

was going on in terms of just admitting them. Just get us a 

better form for that. 

Go ahead and get your objections to us and to counsel, 

and then we will take that up at 8:30 in the morning.

MR. WESTFALL: You weren't the only one confused, 

Your Honor. The representation that was made, you know, 

misunderstandings aside, was that she was going to say, "Oh, 

yeah, basically those are the schedules," and then we are done 

with that. But they went way into those schedules, and I am 

afraid that that is all the evidence that they intend to put 

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on about what is in those schedules. 

And I mean, are you going to revisit those schedules in 

front of the jury? 

MR. JONAS: First of all, Mr. Westfall, I thought I 

was very, very clear in my email to Ms. Hollander, and I can 

produce that email to every Defense attorney as to my 

intention. I did not mislead any defense attorney in this 

case as to what I was doing. I clearly explained myself, and 

I believe I lived up to my explanation, one. 

Two, yes, we are going through the schedules. We are not 

done with them.

MR. WESTFALL: Okay. It seemed like a pretty in 

depth bridge. That is all. And so I was concerned about a 

scope objection later on. And also some of the stuff that was 

in those schedules is going to be objected to, and I mean, 

they were being published all over the place.

THE COURT: They were. But those schedules were on 

that list, though. That is the concern that I had. And so, 

you know, I had asked for objections on everything that was on 

the list and I didn't get any, so I assume you had looked at 

those. You have had them now for a week almost.

MR. WESTFALL: I mean, that is I guess the root of 

the misunderstanding. There are an awful lot of exhibits on 

there, and all those different classes, and then the schedules 

that -- 

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THE COURT: Right. And I understand that, but like 

we discussed the other day, this isn't the first time you have 

seen these exhibits. You had an exhibit list long ago, and of 

course you had them the last time. So none of this is new 

except maybe one or two today.

MR. WESTFALL: The schedule has been changed.

MS. HOLLANDER: It has been changed considerably, 

Your Honor.

MR. JONAS: If I can address this, they had the 

schedules for a long time. The changes that were made in the 

schedules, some of the page numbers were off so we corrected 

those items. But the substance of the transactions have been 

the same since we turned over to them, you know, prior to 

trial.

THE COURT: Mr. Dratel? 

MR. DRATEL: My understanding back from when we 

received this last weekend was that a list -- the 13-page list 

of exhibits was that essentially the last two pages were not 

going to be part of her testimony this time, but really would 

be admitted in terms of housekeeping, and as a result there 

was less reason to be substantively concerned with those 

because the volume of exhibits was so many to begin with. I 

am not suggesting that we have gone beyond that, or what the 

intention was. What I am suggesting is that those were 

not -- I didn't interpret that as meaning that we were going 

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to get into the admissibility of those in the detailed level.

THE COURT: But he has been saying all along, 

regardless of the misunderstanding, and I think I was confused 

as well as to how much you were going to get into them, but he 

was saying all along he wanted to introduce them and get them 

out of the way.

MR. DRATEL: But purely a technical matter and not 

an admissible matter.

THE COURT: Admissibility is admissibility. If you 

are going to object, that would be the time to do it. Anyway, 

I assume admissibility -- We were going to deal with 

admissibility issues.

MR. JONAS: If I could just address that. The last 

two pages of the list were the items that I entered into 

evidence before I even started the schedules, and she did not 

testify about any of that, so you are correct in your 

assumption. The schedule and the supporting documentation for 

the schedules were before those last two pages. And I noted 

on the list where it was going to be purely -- And that is 

what it was. So I don't think I deviated from what I told 

you. 

THE COURT: Okay. All right. 

See you back at 8:30 in the morning.

MR. DRATEL: May we approach on a scheduling matter?

THE COURT: Sure. Come on up. 

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THE REPORTER: Mr. Dratel, do you want this on the 

record? 

MR. DRATEL: It doesn't need to be.

(discussion at the bench, out of the hearing of the 

reporter.)

THE COURT: We are in recess.

(End of day.)

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I HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING IS A 

CORRECT TRANSCRIPT FROM THE RECORD OF 

PROCEEDINGS IN THE ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER. 

I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT THE TRANSCRIPT FEES 

FORMAT COMPLY WITH THOSE PRESCRIBED BY THE 

COURT AND THE JUDICIAL CONFERENCE OF THE 

UNITED STATES.

S/Shawn McRoberts 06/04/2009

__________________________DATE____________

SHAWN McROBERTS, RMR, CRR

FEDERAL OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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