IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS

DALLAS DIVISION 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ( NUMBER 3: 04-240-G 

(

(

VERSUS ( 

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HOLY LAND FOUNDATION, ET AL. ( October 22, 2007

__________________________________________________________

VOLUME 33

TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL

BEFORE THE HONORABLE A. JOE FISH

__________________________________________________________

A P P E A R A N C E S:

For the Government: MR. JIM JACKS

MR. BARRY JONAS

MS. ELIZABETH SHAPIRO

MR. NATHAN GARRETT

Assistant United States Attorney

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS

U.S. Courthouse 

1100 Commerce Street

Dallas, Texas 75242

214/659-8600

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For the Defendant and Shukri Abu Baker:

MS. NANCY HOLLANDER 

MS. TERESA DUNCAN

FREEDMAN BOYD DANIELS 

HOLLANDER 

20 First Plaza, Suite 700 

Albuquerque, NM 87102

505/842-9960 

For the Defendant El-Mezain:

MR. JOSHUA DRATEL

LAW OFFICE OF JOSHUA L. DRATEL

14 Wall Street, 28th Floor

New York, NY 10005

212/732-0707 

For the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader:

MS. MARLO CADEDDU

LAW OFFICE OF MARLO P. CADEDDU

3232 McKinney Avenue, Suite 700

Dallas, Texas 75204

214/744-3015 

For the Defendant Elashi:

MS. LINDA MORENO

LAW OFFICE OF LINDA MORENO

PO BOX 10985 

Tampa, Florida 33679

 813-247-4500 

For the Defendant Odeh: 

 MR. GREG WESTFALL

WESTFALL PLATT CUTRER

Mallick Tower

One Summit Avenue, Suite 910

Fort Worth, Texas 76102

817/877-1700

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Court Reporter: Cassidi L. Casey, CSR No. 1703

1100 Commerce Street, Rm 15D6L

Dallas, Texas 75242

214/354-3139

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P R O C E E D I N G S:

THE COURT: Before we start, let me put this on 

the record that what we're meeting about is a note I saw 

for the first time this morning. Evidently, it was 

delivered before my arrival at the courthouse my 

Ms. Kristina Williams. 

"Judge Fish, I am writing you to ask you some 

questions. One, are we going to be polled. 

"Two, does undecided mean not guilty? If we are 

not going to be polled, I would like to give my statement 

with the court reporter there on some of the charges with 

the defendants. Will you please let me know? Thank you, 

Kristina Williams, Number 7(sic)."

MR. WESTFALL: I have not discussed this with 

the government, but we would suggest a very simple answer 

to at least the not guilty question: Undecided does not 

mean not guilty. And then on the issue of polled, you 

know, poll, obviously is provided for. It's possible. It 

just seems like particularly that last paragraph there is 

a chance that something could go haywire unless her 

concerns are kind of addressed. 

THE COURT: Counsel for the government have a 

view? 

MR. JACKS: Judge, I believe I agree with Mr. 

Westfall in terms of how these questions could be 

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answered. I think also in addition one of the reasons 

that we sought to have this meeting with the Court is that 

there is still this note from Thursday, and just for 

clarification, as far as how the Court intended to 

proceed. I don't know if there is anymore to discuss with 

regard to that. 

THE COURT: Well, actually there were two notes 

Thursday that I found. It had been reported to me by 

telephone by Judge Stickney that there was one note, but 

actually there were two notes. So which one are you 

referring to? 

MR. JACKS: The first one that talks about their 

decisions and breaks it down by defendant. So I guess we 

were just kind of wanting clarification as to how the 

Court intended or wanted to proceed. Obviously, it's a 

partial verdict. Before going into the courtroom, we were 

looking for any kind of guidance as far as how it wanted 

to proceed. 

THE COURT: Well, what I was planning to do 

based on my knowledge of what occurred in my absence last 

week is to bring the jury into court, read these two notes 

into the record which were sealed by Judge Stickney I 

understand last week and to say that it was my 

understanding that the jury had reached a decision on at 

least some counts of the indictment and to ask for 

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affirmation of that from the foreperson and then to say 

that the partial verdict was received by Judge Stickney 

and placed under seal last week -- which I have not 

opened. It's in this envelope here. So I don't know what 

to expect when I open the envelope. But to open it and 

publish whatever verdict they have reached. And my 

ordinary practice is to poll the jury on my own motion 

after that. I don't know what we will get in light of Ms. 

Williams's note after we do that, but that's my normal 

practice. 

MR. JACKS: Well, your Honor, does the Court 

intend to answer that note before doing that? 

THE COURT: The note you are referring to? 

MR. JACKS: The note from today, from Ms. 

Williams. 

THE COURT: Well, I can if you want me to. I'm 

not sure how you want me to do that, whether to bring her 

back from the juryroom into my office or talk to her 

individually or send her a note directed to her or what. 

This is so irregular to have a note other than the 

foreperson, I'm not sure of the proper procedure. 

MR. WESTFALL: The entire panel I suppose could 

be told what the effect of an undecided verdict is; it's 

not "not guilty." And then you can tell them your regular 

practice in terms of being polled. That might take care 

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of it. 

THE COURT: What would be the preamble to my 

telling them that? Do you think I should read the note 

to the jury? 

MS. CADDEDU: I don't see that you need to read 

the notes. 

MR. WESTFALL: In the record before the verdict 

is read, it might create chaos because you can unseal it 

after the verdict.

MS. HOLLANDER: There were other notes that I 

thought your Honor was going to unseal, all of them after 

the verdict. What if you just sent a note back? 

THE COURT: One reason I was thinking about 

publishing these notes which have been under seal is to 

explain to the press and any members of the public who 

were here why we were receiving a partial verdict because 

the jury does say in one of these notes that they don't 

think further deliberations would be productive. 

MR. JACKS: Judge, I would propose that you just 

answer this note from today from Ms. Williams in writing 

and address it to the jury as a whole saying one of your 

number has asked the following questions and these are the 

answers to those questions. 

Partly, rather than bringing them in -- bringing 

them in and doing it in open court. It gives some privacy 

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to Ms. Williams that might be appropriate. But then the 

question becomes okay after you answer that, what affect 

does that have? Does it change her vote? Where do we go 

from there? I guess. 

MS. HOLLANDER: We find out when we poll them. 

If the Judge were to answer the question, "No, undecided 

does not mean not guilty, and yes, you will be polled," 

then I guess we find out when they are polled. 

MR. JACKS: And listen to her prepared 

statement. 

THE COURT: If I answer in writing to this note 

from Ms. Williams, as you suggest, that's going to require 

some delay. I see it's ten o'clock now when everybody was 

supposed to be here, and Ms. Piwoni, my assistant, is on 

leave this week, and so I have to find somebody to type a 

response to this. I want to advise you of that. 

MR. WESTFALL: Couldn't they just be told as a 

group, your Honor? 

THE COURT: That's fine with me. I'm willing to 

be guided by your thoughts on that. 

MR. WESTFALL: You said your normal practice is 

to poll the jury. That would answer what seems to be her 

biggest question, and to the extent there are undecided 

counts, the effect of that I think could be easily 

explained.

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MS. HOLLANDER: That might be easier, especially 

since we don't have to wait for a typist. 

MR. GARRETT: So yes, you will be polled, and 

the second one, yes, undecided does not mean not guilty. 

MS. MORENO: And get out of the room, Judge. 

THE COURT: Good advice. 

(Jury in)

THE COURT: Good morning, Ladies and Gentlemen. 

Welcome back to the courtroom. It's been a while since we 

have all been together. For the parties and the jury, 

they are aware I think that I was out of town last week. 

The members of the public who are here or members of the 

press may not be aware of that fact. I wanted to review 

what I understand happened last week in my absence under 

the supervision of Magistrate Judge Stickney of our Court. 

On Thursday of last week which was the 18th of October, we 

received two notes from the jury. The first says 

"10-18-07, Concerning the verdict forms, we have two 

defendants on whom we have reached unanimous decisions on 

some of the counts. Do I sign and date even though all 

counts are not decided?"

And then someone has written in -- I'm not sure 

who -- the word "yes" below that. It seems to be a 

different handwriting than the question. And then below 

that, "Do I sign the verdict forms where no unanimous 

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decisions were reached?"

And then again the word "yes" is written in, 

although it seems to be in a different hand, and the note 

is signed by the foreperson. 

And then the second note is also dated 10-18-07. 

It reads "After extensive deliberation, review of the 

admitted exhibits and consultation of the Court's 

instructions to the jury, we, the jury, have reached the 

following decisions:

"Unanimous decisions on all counts on one 

defendant. Unanimous decisions on some of the counts on 

two defendants. We are unable to reach unanimous 

decisions on any of the counts on the three remaining 

defendants. We do not believe that any further 

deliberations would lead to any further unanimous 

decisions on any of the undecided counts on any of the 

defendants." This note is also a signed by the 

foreperson. 

And then I have an envelope which was signed and 

sealed by Judge Stickney which apparently contains the 

partial verdicts referred to in the notes. Also, this 

morning, I received a note from a member of the jury which 

I will read in part. It's dated 10-22-07. It says, 

"Judge Fish, I am writing you to ask you some questions. 

One, are we going to be polled? Two, does undecided mean 

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not guilty?"

The answers to those questions are, yes, you 

will be polled after I have published the jury's partial 

verdict, and the second question "does undecided mean not 

guilty," the answer to that is undecided does not mean not 

guilty. 

With that background, I am going to open the 

envelope that Judge Stickney sealed last week containing 

the partial verdict that was referred to in these notes. 

The first set of pages here is the verdict form 

relating to the Defendant Holy Land Foundation for Relief 

and Development, and it is signed by the foreperson, but 

no verdicts are recorded in any of the spaces. 

The second set of papers is the verdict form for 

the Defendant Shukri Abu Baker, and again it is signed by 

the foreperson, but there are no entries in any of the 

blanks. 

The next set of papers is the verdict form for 

the Defendant El Mezain, and there is no entry for him on 

Count 1 of the indictment. However, as to Count 2 of the 

indictment, the foreperson has recorded that the verdict 

of the jury is not guilty. 

On Count 3 of the indictment, similarly the 

foreperson has recorded a not guilty verdict. 

On Count 4 of the indictment, the foreperson has 

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recorded a not guilty verdict. 

On Count 5 of the indictment, the foreperson has 

recorded a not guilty verdict. 

On Count 6, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 7 of the indictment, the foreperson has 

recorded a not guilty verdict. 

On Count 8, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 9, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 10, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 11, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 12, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 13, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 14, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 15, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 16, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

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On Count 17 the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 18, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 19, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

In Count 20, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 21, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 22, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 23, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 24, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 25, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 26, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 27, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 28, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

On Count 29, the foreperson has recorded a not 

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guilty verdict. 

On Count 30, the foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict. 

And on Count 31, the foreperson has recorded a 

not guilty verdict. 

And on Count 32, the foreperson has recorded a 

not guilty verdict. 

The verdict form on Mr. El Mezain is dated 

September 18, 2007 (sic) and signed by the foreperson. 

The next set of papers is the verdict form for 

the Defendant Ghassan Elashi, and although it is signed by 

the foreperson and dated September 18 (sic) there are no 

entries in any of the blanks. 

The next set of papers is the verdict form for 

the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader. The foreperson has 

recorded a not guilty verdict as to Mr. Mufid Abdulqader 

on Counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 

15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 

29, 30, 31 and 32 of the indictment. And the verdict form 

is signed by the foreperson and dated October 1st, 2007. 

The next set of papers is the verdict form for 

the Defendant AbdulRahmin Odeh. It is signed by the 

foreperson and dated September 18, 2007, although I wonder 

if that should be October 18. And the foreperson has 

recorded a not guilty verdict on Count 2. There is no 

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entry for Count 1. The foreperson has recorded a not 

guilty verdict for Counts 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. There 

is no entry for Count 11. The foreperson has recorded a 

not guilty verdict for Counts 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 

19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, and 32. 

Now, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, as I told 

you in response to the note I received this morning from a 

member of the jury, it is my intention to poll each of you 

to tell me if what I have just read constitutes your 

verdict. I will begin -- And I am going to only address 

you as Juror Number such and such in an effort to protect 

your anonymity since there has been some media interest. 

Madam Foreperson, is this your verdict?

FOREPERSON: Yes.

THE COURT: Juror Number 2, is this your 

verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 2: No. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 3, is this your 

verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 3: Yes. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 4, this your verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 4: Yes. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 5? 

JUROR NUMBER 5: Yes.

THE COURT: Juror Number 6?

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JUROR NUMBER 6: No. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 7, is this your 

verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 7: Yes. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 8, is this your 

verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 8: Yes. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 9, is this your 

verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 9: Yes. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 10, is this your 

verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 10: No. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 11, is this your 

verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 11: Yes. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 12, is this your 

verdict? 

JUROR NUMBER 12: Yes. 

THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen, as I told you 

in my initial instructions, your verdict must be 

unanimous, and it is apparent to me from the answers of 

three members of the jury in response to the question that 

the verdicts that I read earlier do not represent the 

unanimous view of the juror. So I guess I need to 

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inquire, Madam Foreperson, whether there is the 

possibility that further deliberations might produce a 

unanimous decision on any of these counts.

FOREPERSON: Your Honor, when we voted, there 

was no issue in the vote, and no one spoke up any 

differently throughout this whole process. Now, when we 

spoke up, we deliberated. There was arguments, and we 

went through everything that we thought we needed to do. 

At that certain point when the vote was done, there was no 

speaking up saying any differently. So I'm not 

understanding -- I don't understand where it's coming 

from, and I'm not sure about the further deliberations 

because that two -- All twelve made that decision that we 

were at the end of the deliberations. 

THE COURT: Well, let me ask you to do this. 

Let me ask you to retire to the juryroom to discuss this 

matter to see whether the jury believes that further 

deliberations might be productive in reaching a further 

decision. And once you have talked about that, I'll ask 

you to send me a note reflecting what your consensus on 

that is, and we'll wait for your decision. 

(Jury out)

THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen, we'll be in 

recess while the jury caucuses on this matter about 

whether further deliberation might be productive, and once 

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I hear from them, I'll communicate with counsel for the 

parties. 

THE COURT: I have just been handed a note by 

Mr. Kiblinger. I'll read it. "10-22-07, "Eleven out of 

twelve jurors have agreed that further deliberations will 

not change the results." Signed by Ms. Lopez-Rogina as 

foreperson. If you would like, I will make copies of this 

and make them available. 

MR. DRATEL: Your Honor, that note, I'm not sure 

what it means. But it occurred to us -- thinking about 

what occurred in the courtroom -- that there is a 

possibility that because of perhaps the way the jurors 

misperceived the question on polling that they may have 

been talking about undecided counts as to whether this is 

their verdict because they obviously disagreed on 

undecided counts, and the verdict for not guilty would 

say, no, that's not my vote if they had voted on decided 

counts. We don't know whether the unanimous counts are in 

contest or it's the undecided counts. This note doesn't 

tell us that answer. It could be that eleven of twelve 

would say we can reach on the others, but I'm not going 

further. I'm where I am, but not further on the undecided 

counts. We don't know the answer to that question. So I 

don't know whether that applies to the entirety of the 

verdicts or just the counts that they couldn't reach 

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verdicts on. I think further exploration would assist us 

perhaps in getting some closure in this case. Perhaps 

also polling on each defendant might work to that effect 

as well. They may not be in dispute about Mr. Abdulqader. 

MR. JACKS: Well, your Honor, that's just 

speculation, and I don't think we can sit here and try to 

figure out what they meant. You've got three of the 

twelve that said it's not their verdict, and to sit there 

and try to decipher what they meant by that, I don't 

really think that if the answer doesn't come back the way 

somebody expected it -- You almost are going to end up 

having a dialogue with them trying to figure out what they 

are thinking. And even at that, now it says that eleven 

out of twelve don't think any further deliberations would 

be of benefit. I just think that a mistrial is 

inevitable, and I don't know that you could ever unravel 

this thing where it makes sense. 

MR. DRATEL: Back to the notes. On the 

undecided counts or decided counts, if it's only undecided 

we have a verdict that has integrity. If it's undecided, 

we have an issue. And as to the defendants, what if they 

are undecided on a question as to Mr. El Mezain but they 

are as to Mr. Mufid Abdulqader? He's already acquitted --

MS. CADDEDU: Your Honor, I would make a 

specific request to poll jurors as to my client. I think 

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clearly he has the most to lose from mistrying his case, 

and I think that at least is warranted based on the facts. 

THE COURT: Well, it seems to me that the 

polling of the jury did probably produce an ambiguous 

result, and that's really a separate question in my mind 

from whether further deliberations would be productive, 

and I think the overwhelming indication there is that 

further deliberation would not be productive which is my 

sense, too. I have given the jury an Allen charge two 

weeks ago, and to do it again, I think would probably be 

futile. I don't know that I need the necessity of polling 

the jury with respect to all of the defendants because 

there were some as to whom there were no answers recorded. 

I think that seems to be fairly clear to me. But as to 

the ones that some verdicts were recorded, I think it 

might be worthwhile to go back through and just clarify 

with the jury whether their answers meant what I initially 

thought, whether everybody agreed with those or maybe they 

were referring to the undecided counts when they said this 

was not their verdict. 

MR. DRATEL: I think we all agree, as we did on 

Thursday, that we don't think further deliberation is 

fruitful. We just want to see whether we have an actual 

verdict as to some of the defendants. 

MS. HOLLANDER: The way your Honor seeks to 

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proceed from my prospective makes sense. 

THE COURT: Well, to spell it out again, to be 

sure there was no misunderstanding as to those defendants 

from whom we received some verdicts, I will poll the jury 

individually about those. As to others for who there were 

no verdicts recorded, I'm not going to question them about 

those. 

MR. CLINE: Does your Honor intend to declare a 

mistrial as to those three defendants? 

THE COURT: I think that is the only choice I 

have. 

MR. CLINE: We agree. I wanted to be clear. 

MR. JACKS: Your Honor, will you do it count by 

count, as to Count 2 for Mr. El Mezain or will you do it 

in groups or do you know? 

THE COURT: I guess I hadn't gotten that far in 

my thinking. The easiest I guess as to Ms. Cadeddu's 

client since he had a verdict recorded on all counts, and 

as to the others I hadn't really thought about that. 

MR. JACKS: Thank you, your Honor. 

(Jury in)

THE COURT: I'm sorry for the false start, 

Ladies and Gentlemen. But Ms. Casey told me that counsel 

for the government wanted to put something on the record. 

MR. JACKS: Your Honor, as we were filing out 

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about two minutes ago, we learned from Ms. Casey that on 

Thursday after the verdict came out that Ms. Williams, 

Juror 7 I believe -- I'm not sure if I have the number 

correct -- approached Magistrate Stickney and informed him 

this is not her verdict, that she felt pressure. I think 

when you take that statement in conjunction with our note 

this morning, in conjunction with what Mr. Holmes said 

about Juror William Neal, I think, your Honor -- I think 

you need to speak to Ms. Williams yourself and find out if 

she feels pressured. Maybe away from the jury she can 

give you an honest answer. 

THE COURT: I'm not really inclined to do that. 

What we have said is consistent with my understanding of 

the conversation I had with Judge Stickney on Thursday 

afternoon. He told me at that time as best I can 

remember -- I don't know if he identified Ms. Williams to 

me by name but that a female member of the jury was almost 

in tears or was in tears and very emotional and asked if 

the jury would be polled, and he told her yes, and either 

he inferred or she said that she was under pressure from 

other jurors, but I don't think I knew until this morning 

that was Ms. Williams. 

MR. WESTFALL: I don't know if the Court noticed 

she was crying just now. 

THE COURT: But I think that's inherent in this 

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process, that people are always under some peer pressure 

to reach a result, and so I don't know that I see it being 

productive to interview her or any other member of the 

jury individually. 

MR. DRATEL: Thank you, your Honor. 

(Jury in)

THE COURT: Good morning, Ladies and Gentlemen. 

After the last recess, I received a few minutes ago 

another note from the jury foreperson which reads as 

follows: "10-22-07, Eleven out of twelve jurors have 

agreed that further deliberations will not change the 

results." And that note is signed by the foreperson. I 

think that I must necessarily accept the judgment of that 

number of jurors that further deliberations would not be 

productive. However, before moving on, I would like to go 

back to the poll that I did of the jury this morning 

because I was afraid on reflection that may be there was 

some ambiguity in the question when I asked each member of 

the jury to tell me whether or not the results recorded by 

the foreperson represented their verdict. Obviously, 

there was some disagreement among the jury on some of 

these counts where no answer was recorded. I think that's 

reasonably clear. But on some of the defendants there 

were answers recorded, and I would like to go back to that 

part of our proceedings in the poll this morning. For 

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example, as to the Defendant Mufid Abdulqader, the 

foreperson recorded a not guilty verdict for Mr. Mufid 

Abdulqader on all counts in which he was accused in the 

superseding indictment. So I would like to focus on Mr. 

Mufid Abdulqader for just a moment and ask the three 

members of the jury who told me this morning that this 

does not represent their verdict -- I'd like to ask that 

question again, but before I do, let me say that I am not 

seeking to get you to change your answer, if that's not 

appropriate. I'm really only trying to understand your 

answer and see whether you meant that the verdicts that 

were recorded on these defendants, where there were 

verdicts, that that didn't represent your opinion or 

whether you were referring to many of the counts in the 

indictment against some defendants were not answered at 

all and whether you were in disagreement with that. So 

I'm trying to understand your answer. I'm not necessarily 

seeking a different answer. 

Juror Number 2, you told me no this morning. Do 

you disagree with the verdicts of not guilty respecting 

Mr. Mufid Abdulqader? 

JUROR NUMBER 2: I agree with it. 

THE COURT: Juror Number 6, do you disagree with 

the verdict regarding Mr. Mufid Abdulqader? 

JUROR NUMBER 6: I don't agree with the verdicts 

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that are on that paper. 

THE COURT: And Juror Number 10, do you disagree 

with the verdicts recorded? 

JUROR NUMBER 10: I agree with them. 

THE COURT: There were also partial verdicts 

rendered against some other defendants. Mr. Odeh. 

Juror Number 2, do you disagree with the 

verdicts recorded on Mr. Odeh? 

JUROR NUMBER 2: Yes, I do disagree with it. 

THE COURT: And Juror Number 6, do you disagree 

with the verdicts recorded on the form related to Mr. 

Odeh? 

JUROR NUMBER 6: Yes, I disagree with it. 

JUROR NUMBER 10: I agree. I disagree on no 

verdicts -- on not filling out verdicts on all. So you 

don't have to ask me anymore questions about that. 

THE COURT: And I believe there was one other 

defendant on which we received a partial verdict, that 

being Mr. El Mezain. 

Juror Number 2, do you disagree with the 

verdicts recorded on Mr. El Mezain? 

JUROR NUMBER 2: No, I do not. 

THE COURT: Juror 6, do you disagree with those 

verdicts? 

JUROR NUMBER 6: I do not disagree. 

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THE COURT: On Mr. El Mezain, Juror Number 10, 

you said that you did not disagree with the verdicts? 

JUROR NUMBER 10: I wanted it all verdicts. 

THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen, as I said 

earlier, I respect the judgment you have reached that 

further deliberations will not produce unanimous 

agreement, and so you are I think at the end of your 

service in this case. It's been a while now since we had 

closing arguments, but my memory is that counsel for all 

the parties took the opportunity during that closing 

argument to thank you for your service in this case, and I 

would now like to take my opportunity to join them in 

thanking you for your service. It's been a long trial. I 

recognize there has been no doubt dislocation in every one 

of your daily lives because of your service in this case. 

You have rendered a valuable service to your community and 

to your government by serving as jurors in this case. 

This is one of the few ways these days that individuals 

like yourselves can personally participate in the affairs 

of your government, and I think you should be proud of the 

service that you have rendered. I hope that we have made 

you as comfortable as possible during your time with us 

and that you have found this to be an educational 

experience. 

The local rules of our Court provide that the 

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parties to this case or the lawyers or other 

representatives are not allowed to discuss this case with 

you unless they have my permission to do so, and so you 

should not discuss this case with any of those persons 

unless you hear from me beforehand that it's okay. 

Otherwise, it's up to you to decide now that your service 

is over whether you want to discuss this case with anyone 

and if so to what extent. 

As I mentioned earlier this morning, there has 

been media interest in this case which is probably not 

surprising to you, and I have had some requests from 

members of the media to have the opportunity to visit with 

you about your service in this case. I have told them 

that is all right with me, but it is up to you to decide 

whether you want to visit with them or not. So I wanted 

to tell you that the procedure I expect to follow is when 

you leave the courthouse today you will be given a list of 

the members of the media who have requested the 

opportunity to visit with you, and it will have their 

names and telephone numbers on there, and we will rely on 

you to take the initiative if you want to visit with any 

of them to make contact with them. I'm doing this in an 

effort to preserve your privacy and anonymity if you want 

that. However, if you want to speak to the media, you can 

do so by making a telephone call and talking with them. 

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I think as we were coming in the courtroom I was 

told by Mr. Kiblinger someone wanted to ask me a question. 

So I said I would give -- 

MS. WILLIAMS: It was me. I wanted to know if 

we have a question if we can ask while we're inside the 

Court. But no, I don't have a question. It was just if I 

had a question. 

THE COURT: I would like to make the request 

that once you leave the courtroom if you feel so disposed 

to stay for a few minutes in the juryroom because I would 

like to come back and visit informally with the jurors 

about the case. On the other hand, if you don't want to 

participate in that, I will certainly understand. You 

have given us a lot of time already, and if you want to go 

ahead and leave, I certainly understand your feelings. 

Again, Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you for your 

service, and you may be excused from the courtroom at this 

pointed. 

(Jury out)

THE COURT: Ladies and Gentlemen, I think the 

law gives me no choice but to declare a mistrial on all of 

the counts of the indictment on those defendants for whom 

no valid verdict was reached in this case, and that will 

be the Defendants Holy Land Foundation, Shukri Abu Baker, 

Ghassan Elashi, Mufid Abdulqader and Abdulrahmin Odeh. 

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And then as to the Defendant Mohamed El Mezain, 

I understood the three members of the jury this morning 

that dissented from the verdict actually did not dissent 

from the verdicts recorded on the verdict form relating to 

Mr. El Mezain. Those were Counts 2 through 32 of the 

indictment. So as to those counts of the indictment, I 

will adjudge Mr. El Mezain not guilty in accordance with 

the -- partial verdict of the jury and declare a mistrial 

as to Mr. El Mezain on Count 1 of the indictment. 

Given the fact that a mistrial has been declared 

on most of the counts of the indictment against most of 

the defendants, that leaves the case in the same posture 

as it would be before this trial commenced. That is the 

government has the option of bringing this prosecution 

again. 

Mr. Jacks, do you know whether the government 

intends to bring these charges to another trial? 

MR. JACKS: Yes, your Honor, my expectation is 

that we will. 

THE COURT: Well, for the benefit of the parties 

and counsel -- and I may have told this to counsel 

already, but I intend to send the case to random 

reassignment among my colleagues if the case is to be 

tried again. So it will be presided over by a different 

judge the next time around. It has been my pleasure to 

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preside over this case, and I want to publically commend 

counsel for the excellent jobs they have each done in 

representing their respective clients. 

It is ordinarily my practice when we receive a 

verdict to order the court reporter to take custody of the 

documentary and tangible exhibits which were received in 

evidence if those documents are eight and a half by eleven 

in size or smaller. However, if there is to be a retrial 

in this case -- She tells me she does until there is a 

transcript completed. So I will order that she take 

custody of the exhibits and tangible exhibits at this 

time. If there are documentary exhibits larger than eight 

and a half by eleven in size, I will order those be 

returned to custody of the counsel for the offering part 

to be held pending further order of this Court. 

Is there anything else that we need to talk 

about while we're all together this morning? 

MR. DRATEL: Your Honor, just a housekeeping in 

terms of if we could maybe get an order on the record for 

the Court permitting defendants to travel back to their 

home residences. 

THE COURT: I really would prefer to defer that 

motion to Judge Stickney, who has handled the matters 

relating to release pending trial. I don't necessarily 

have any disagreement with that, but I'm more comfortable 

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having Judge Stickney handle it, given his familiarity 

with the conditions of their release. 

MR. JACKS: Your Honor, in that the bulk of 

these charges are still unresolved, there is a question 

regarding the Court's gag order, and if that I guess still 

in place. I'm sure both sides have been bombarded with 

questions and requests from the media, and I want to find 

out what is the order of the Court. 

THE COURT: Yes, my belief is that order is 

still in effect and will be unless and until the 

government decides not to prosecute this case further or 

until these charges are resolved after another trial. 

If there is nothing else, court will be in 

recess at this time. 

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C E R T I F I C A T I O N

I, Cassidi L. Casey, certify that during the 

proceedings of the foregoing-styled and -numbered cause, I 

was the official reporter and took in stenotypy such 

proceedings and have transcribed the same as shown by the 

above and foregoing Pages 1 through 32 and that said 

transcript is true and correct.

I further certify that the transcript fees and format 

comply with those prescribed by the court and the Judicial 

Conference of the United States.

__________________________

CASSIDI L. CASEY

UNITED STATES DISTRICT REPORTER

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS

DALLAS DIVISION

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