REDAC Subcommittee on Airports

Summer Meeting July 30 -31, 2019

FAA - William J. Hughes Technical Center

Building 300 – Technical Director’s Conference Room

Note Taker: Erin DeBarth

The meeting began at 12:47 p.m. Mr. Christopher Oswald (Airports Subcommittee Chair) greeted 

and thanked the Subcommittee members for attending. He explained that the agenda had been 

reformatted with less deep dives, not going into the individual research program areas (RPAs), and 

more overviews. Mr. Oswald stated if there were any questions about ongoing research, or if there 

was something a Subcommittee member would like information on that was not listed in the 

agenda, to please let him know.

Ms. Shelley Yak, Director, FAA William J. Hughes Technical Center, R&D Executive 

Welcome and Remarks

Ms. Yak began by explaining the meeting had been streamlined and updated based upon a

Research and Development (R&D) perspective. She stated the usual topics have been budget 

related and emerging and developing issues. Ms. Yak explained a few years ago, that there were 

discussions of a 50% cut in budget and she was pleased to report the budget was staying at a decent 

level for FY20. She credited the Subcommittee for being instrumental in the redesign of the FAA 

National Aviation Research Plan (NARP), and the 2017-2018 NARP was approved and published 

on the FAA Website. Ms. Yak explained the Landscapes will be discussed and Mr. Steve Summer 

will present an update on the Subcommittee input. She stated that she wanted the Subcommittee 

to think about where the Landscapes and Research Plan fit in the REDAC. Ms. Yak continued by 

informing the Subcommittee the National Aviation Research Park is open and the FAA Research 

Team has space in the first completed building. She informed the Subcommittee that the local 

ACY (Atlantic City Airport) identified itself as interested in becoming a Smart Airport, and 

received a grant. Ms. Yak explained Smart Technology continues at the forefront of research and 

this was part of a deal with the FAA and ACY when the FAA turned the airport over to private 

entities.

Mr. John Dermody, Airports Designated Federal Official (DFO)

HQ Office of Airports (ARP) Update

Mr. Dermody welcomed all in attendance. He explained there was a lot going on in the world of 

R&D. He explained that the budget was in good shape and R&D has been able to prioritize and 

defer tasks while focusing on the priority tasks. Mr. Dermody credited Dr. Michel Hovan, Mr. Jeff 

Gagnon, and Mr. Jim Patterson for assisting with the prioritization task and being flexible within 

their programs. Mr. Dermody cited Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) and Commercial Space as 

being some of the hot topics for R&D. Mr. Dermody stated the budget was in good shape with half 

going to the Safety Program and half going to the Pavement Program. He said a big portion of 

funding for Pavements was going to the new National Airport Pavement Test Facility (NAPTF)
and the support contractor. Mr. Dermody stated FY20 looked to be in good shape in order to 

accomplish what was needed, and with the support of Dr. Hovan, Mr. Gagnon, and Mr. Patterson 

prioritizing tasks should keep moving along. Mr. Dermody continued speaking to Fluorinated

Firefighting Foams research, stating that it had been questioned regularly about what the FAA was 

doing to combat this. He explained the dilemma was finding alternatives and asked if aviation was

doing their part. Mr. Dermody stated the Aircraft Rescue & Fire Fighting (ARFF) project topped

everything right now explaining the new building was in the construction phase. He informed the 

Subcommittee there will be a visit to the facility on Day Two. He stated this will help move the 

research forward, adding that R&D has been looking to Europe to observe what they were doing.

Mr. Dermody explained an alternative was needed that must be environmentally friendly and meet 

safety recommendations. He stated this was started in October 2018 and he was hoping by January

R&D will be able to look at testing without dispensing foam. Mr. Dermody stated there was a 

pressing need for legislation and this work has been performed under a congressional mandate.

Mr. Oswald interjected stating this was definitely on the top of the issues due to airport findings 

and media attention. Mr. Oswald stated it was not just a concern of the airport industry and it was 

important to get good science in place and appropriately develop strategies. Mr. Oswald added it 

was important to communicate and provide realistic expectations of the research. He explained 

there were many people in industry who would be willing to help. A Subcommittee member asked 

if the FAA was tracking State bills, explaining some bills go too far and will be difficult to comply 

with. Mr. Dermody stated the FAA was aware, but not all bills come to the FAA. Mr. Dermody 

informed the Subcommittee that FAA HQ had two vacancies to fill. He mentioned that Greg Kline 

and Doug Johnson were retiring. Mr. Dermody continued highlighting the Safety Database -

Runway Incursion Mitigation work that Ms. Lauren Vitagliano has done. He explained the 

program had evolved and was three years old and puts out substantial benefits. Mr. Dermody cited 

the most recent stats which were 435 runway incursions prior to the mitigation being implemented, 

and since then, there have been only 30 occurrences. Mr. Dermody stated as issues popped up they 

were being added to the list. The Subcommittee asked if all the information was available on the 

Airports website. Mr. Dermody confirmed that it was. Mr. Dermody spoke to UAS and praised 

Mr. Patterson and his team for the work that has been performed. He stated he believed this work 

will lead to specifications on using drones at airports. Mr. Dermody explained counter UAS was 

right on the doorstep of R&D and FAA was very focused on this. He stated the R&D Department 

was working very closely with the FBI and DoD, and there were intense discussions on authority 

and who would test and exercise what. Mr. Dermody explained the first step was to test at ACY 

and move to five different airport locations. He stated airports was where R&D will have a 

significant role, but there needed to be discussions on what roles everyone will play, and there will 

be a lot of collaboration with different offices. The Subcommittee asked if there had been any 

issues working with ATO. Mr. Patterson explained that the plan needed to be very scripted and if 

it is then it should usually be well received.

Dr. Michel Hovan, FAA WJHTC Airports Division Manager 

ATR Update

Dr. Hovan informed the Subcommittee that R&D signed an agreement with Iowa State University

and the FAA continued to push agencies to work together. He stated FY19 looked good and R&D 

still has money that needs to be allocated by August 29, 2019. Dr. Hovan explained R&D was 

working with universities and grants and if the funding does not get allocated by August 29, it will 

impact the research. Mr. Oswald interjected asking what can be done. Dr. Hovan stated funding 
issues needed to be resolved in a timely manner. Mr. Murphy Flynn interjected that the new 

Pavement Lab approval was still with the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) and there were strict 

timelines for which the package submitted would be accepted. He expressed his confidence but it 

was a lengthy process. Mr. Hovan noted there were four vacancies, two in each Pavement and 

Safety. He explained in FY21 he would like to dedicate one vacancy to UAS and another for the 

Pavement Lab Manager. Mr. Hovan stated there were positive things to report for Aircraft Rescue 

and Fire Fighting (ARFF), Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS), Noise, and Aircraft Braking 

Friction. A Subcommittee member interjected that they would like to commend Mr. Gagnon and 

Dr. Hovan on the great work that was done with the Department of Federal Highway and R&D. It 

was explained there was a meeting where half of the day was spent preparing research notes and 

discussions to ensure there was not a duplication of efforts.

Mr. Eric Neiderman, Manager, FAA WJHTC Research and Development

Smart Airports

Mr. Neiderman stated ACY was a designated smart airport test bed, and starting November 18, 

2019 testing of technologies will begin. He stated there was a $930K grant that was available, and 

ACY won. Mr. Neiderman explained ACY will get $250k over the next three years for research.

Mr. Steven Summer, Branch Manager, Research Portfolio Branch

Update on the Technical Center Research Landscape

Mr. Summer began by stating that input from the Subcommittee helped the development of the 

FAA Landscape. He discussed the definition of R&D Landscape the planning phases, and the use 

of the Subcommittee’s input. Mr. Summer explained the Subcommittee was given a list of 25

research drivers and asked the Subcommittee to review what was missing, identify the impact, 

and list what other agencies were doing similar work. He stated with the Subcommittee’s help,

the FAA was able to validate the drivers, develop a timeframe of maturity, and identify drivers 

for future reference. Mr. Summer reviewed the three categories of drivers and explained next 

steps. He noted that the R&D landscape document would be updated regularly for consistency on

latest industry needs. Ms. Yak interjected that the FAA was trying to embed how prioritization 

was done and how to keep it updated and fresh. A Subcommittee member asked Ms. Yak if the 

document can be taken and distributed to industry for feedback. Ms. Yak responded in agreement

that this approach was permissible. Mr. Oswald mentioned that the Subcommittee needed to 

define how the document should be used and to focus discussions on research areas, prioritize and 

look ahead two to three years to make the best of funding. He explained there needed to be a 

definition of the Subcommittee boundaries and how the Subcommittee can make use of this to 

most effectively get information back to the FAA.

Mr. Jim Patterson, Airport Safety R&D Section Manager

Review of REDAC Recommendations

Mr. Patterson provided an overview of the REDAC recommendations. He informed the 

Subcommittee that there were recommendations from spring and fall 2018 pending. The 

Subcommittee reviewed all open recommendations.
Overview of Safety RPAs

Mr. Patterson reviewed the FY19 Projects and Research requests. He highlighted the five new 

requests, citing the Solar Project. Mr. Patterson stated there was a lot more technology than there 

was ten years ago. He explained Mr. Joe Breen was the lead on that project and he was working 

with Cape May Airport. Mr. Patterson presented the Runway Incursion Mitigation (RIM) video 

and reviewed major accomplishments to include the Fire Test Building and 12 new report 

publications since last REDAC. Mr. Patterson informed the Subcommittee that all reports are on 

the website. Dr. Hovan informed the Subcommittee that the website was revised and Mr. Ryan 

Rutter has been working on publishing documentation from 1999 to present.

Mr. Joseph Breen General Manager, Airport Safety

Aircraft Braking Friction Program Update

Dr. Hovan provided an overview of the program and explained there was a Technical Working 

Group Meeting at MIT and the group developed a new approach to the research. Mr. Breen began 

his presentation by giving a brief history of the program which included the FAA partners in 

research and the shortcomings of the program. He explained at the recommendation of the 

Subcommittee, a Technical Working Group was formed. Mr. Breen stated the Working Group has 

compiled a white paper and it was presented to all Subcommittees for the spring and fall 2018 

meetings. Mr. Breen distributed a modified version of the white paper for the Subcommittee to 

review. Dr. Hovan indicated the goal was to improve or refine information used by airports to 

report conditions. He explained Take Off and Landing Performance Assessment (TALPA) was an 

effective way of organizing the data from aircraft and airports and assessing runway conditions.

Dr. Hovan stated the Working Group recommended data mining to look at large scale data analysis 

and compare that data or merge with what was out there to come up with a model to integrate or 

improve. Dr. Hovan stated he believes this is a valid approach. He explained Office of Commercial 

Space (AST) is ready for share the data they have for a cost, and Airbus will not give much. Dr. 

Hovan stated if AST cooperated, R&D could get 4 million data points between 2017 and 2018 (2

million/year). Dr. Hovan stated the verification of the data would be controlled testing combined 

with weather data. Mr. Breen gave a history of the Trapezoidal Groove program and explained 

the cost was the deciding factor in not continuing the research at ACY. He explained R&D has 

been working with Office of Airports to come up with a revised research request. Mr. Breen stated 

performing Full Depth FAA Standard Groove Testing would require testing to be done at other 

locations. He informed the Subcommittee that Denver International Airport would be an ideal test 

location. Dr. Hovan asked the Subcommittee to look at the white paper and provide feedback. Mr. 

Oswald interjected that the white paper has no mention of how the 727 will be used. Mr. Oswald 

asked to have the paper revised to give details on the testing that will be performed with the 727. 

Mr. Dermody explained that he believed Trapezoidal Groove Testing was a valid pathway to get 

what was needed as well as using what was already out there. Mr. Dermody stated the paper can 

be revised to include the 727 testing.
Mr. Jeff Gagnon Airport pavement R&D Section Manager

Overview of Pavement RPA’s

Mr. Gagnon began by discussing the outline of the presentation. He cited the International 

Agreements, R&D was working on were still under legal review. Mr. Gagnon informed the 

Subcommittee of a conference that he attended in Greece and presented FAA PAVEAIR (FAA 

Pavement Management System for Airports). Mr. Gagnon informed the Subcommittee the new 

Pavement Lab was at 60% lab design and anticipated to be at 90% by November 2019. He 

explained that if funding was approved in August 2019, construction would begin in spring of 

2020. Mr. Gagnon cited that the Reauthorization Act of 2018 required use of geosynthetic 

materials. He stated the CC9 (Construction Cycle 9) project in progress has placed fabric within 

the material and he hoped the results would become available next year. Mr. Gagnon explained 

R&D used both fabric and a geogrid in the test beds. These were the first test beds to use these 

materials. Mr. Gagnon highlighted Dr. Navneet Garg on his Practioners Award that he received at 

the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) Conference in Chicago. Mr. Gagnon presented 

new technologies to include Sinusoidal Designs, Smart Rocks, and Wireless Sensors. He explained 

Charlotte Airport was using 1000 ft. of sinusoidal joint in the busiest runway they have. He stated 

the Smart Rocks measure pressure and the movement can be tracked, and they were about the size 

of 1 inch aggregate, similar to what was being used in CC9. Mr. Gagnon explained the Wireless 

Gauges came from a grant with Michigan State. Dr. Garg stated they were about $800/ gauge, but 

if they go commercial the cost will be around $10/gauge. Mr. Gagnon explained Michigan had 

already installed some in France, and had nowhere to install them in the US, so R&D gave them 

the Technical Center location. Mr. Gagnon informed the Subcommittee that FAA Rigid and 

Flexible Iterative Elastic Layered Design (FAARFIELD) 2.0 was delivered last week, and over

time, it will replace the Aircraft Classification Number – Pavement Classification Number

(ACN/PCN) currently used.

10 Year Pavement R & D Plan

Mr. Gagnon presented the plan overview. He explained the plan included Airport Pavement 

Design, Airport Pavement Materials, and Pavement Evaluation. Mr. Gagnon stated he added a list 

of tables and an introduction on how this fit in the National Aviation Research Plan (NARP), 

Office of the Secretary of Transportation (OST), Department of Transportation (DOT), and FAA

along with cost tables that will be finalized by next FY. Mr. Gagnon stated he was hoping to have 

the draft completed by August 2019, and the final by September 2019.

Day One adjourned 5:05 p.m.
Day Two

Meeting commenced 8:45a.m.

Mr. Christopher Oswald, Airports Subcommittee Chair

Mr. Oswald asked the Subcommittee to think about how to turn future needs into projects, and 

what value they may have. Mr. Dermody commented that recommendations are always welcome.

He explained they will look at a recommendation to see how it align to what exists in the queue

and write a research request. Mr. Oswald asked if the discussion of the Landscape Report with the 

top three to five priorities helped bring forth a recommendation. Mr. Dermody stated that it 

depended upon the alignment with the research being done, but he welcomed input.

Mr. Isidore Venetos

Cybesecurity R & D Plan Update

Mr. Venetos began his presentation by giving the project background, to include the need for 

cybersecurity on the aviation side. He explained there was a need for public and private partnership 

in order to open communication channels. Mr. Venetos stated the research element was not just 

with aircraft, but that airports needed to be included as well. He noted that this was a solutionbased approach, not a regulatory body. Mr. Venetos gave an overview of the Cyber Safety CAT

Approach to include the vision, mission, and the goal. He explained the goal was to reduce risk 

with the aviation community with a deliverable to develop best practices, harmonize with 

international partners, and to work to understand the cyber risk. Mr. Venetos stated the Aviation 

Safety Framework was already out there, and this was not to dismantle or reinvent the wheel. He 

stated the plan was to integrate into existing aviation safety controls. Mr. Venetos presented a list 

of possible private sector partners to the research and he stated he was hopeful to have this ready 

to go by 2021. Mr. Venetos presented the Operational Construct to include analysis, 

implementation of changes needed in industry, and reasons for partnership for more efficiency and 

better opportunity to work “end to end”. He explained the goal was an increased layer of protection 

across the aviation ecosystem. Mr. Venetos presented the program summary to include the 

contacts, reports to be made available, and possible partners. He reiterated that this was being 

approached as a non-regulatory set, and it will only become regulatory if government feels the 

need for it, but it was not the key factor. Mr. Oswald noted the deliverable would be the best option 

depending on the risk. Mr. Venetos stated there was still a need to work out who would get the 

information. He informed the Subcommittee he would distribute the Concept Document, but he is 

open to ideas on how to share information. Mr. Dermody asked if industry already had something 

in place without having to go into a regulatory role. A Subcommittee member suggested getting 

in contact with the Israeli Airport Security, explaining Cyber Security was taking on a completely

new level over there and it may be beneficial to look into. Mr. Oswald stated it might be a good 

idea to revise the Concept of Operation document with the Subcommittee and to see where it can 

fit in. He stated there may be place for this in another subgroup, or there may be a need to build 

off as a supplement to areas where there was not funding. Mr. Oswald stated he observed a 

potential in terminal disruption, smart escalators, email, etc., but was unsure on how to proceed. 

Mr. Oswald stated the Subcommittee will review the concept document and provide 

recommendations on how to engage the airport sector more effectively.

The Subcommittee decided the next meeting is to be held:
March 3-4, 2020, same location 

Dr. Hovan asked the Subcommittee if they agree to this meeting format. The Subcommittee agrees.

August 25-26, 2020, same location 

Membership Review and Discussion

Mr. Oswald informed the Subcommittee members that resumes were needed to formalize their 

memberships. He stated that he would like a proposal to get someone from the Philadelphia 

International Airport for logistical reasons, National Airport Pavement Association (NAPA) as 

well as possibly someone with a background in wildlife on the Subcommittee

Ms. Roundtree-Coleman provided an overview of the membership process as it pertained to

existing, new and retiring REDAC members. It was noted that it was a two-year membership 

rotation with an annual review process. Ms. Roundtree-Coleman stated that membership proposals 

are taken into consideration by the REDAC Chair and REDAC Executive Director which is then 

reviewed by the Ethics Organization and Legal Counsel. She also added that there were new 

guideline rules in effect as such:

1. If the meeting is to be held at a non-FAA-DOT location, there must be a request for approval 

submitted with justification in advance.

2. A Subcommittee member is responsible for taking notes/minutes at the meetings. If outside 

support is requested, there must be justification submitted for approval in advance.

Day Two Meeting adjourned 12:10 p.m.

Actions

 Cyber Security Concept Plan – review and provide comments. Identify key contacts that 

could assist, as well as airport recommendations.

 Research Landscape – possible embellishments to some landscape items. Mapping to RPA 

level. Within a week coordinate with Dr. Hovan on what is needed for feedback and 

distribute between now and next meeting. 

Review of Recommendations 

Spring 2017 – still open pending approval 

Spring 2018 – tentatively approved 

Fall 2018 – tentatively approved
Research, Engineering and Development Advisory Committee

PPT Briefing to Sub-committee on Airports: July 30-31, 2019

Technical Center Director’s Conference Room

Day 1: July 30, 2019

Time Presenter(s) Topic

12:30 pm Christopher Oswald Introduction

ACI-NA, Subcommittee Chairperson

12:45 pm Shelley Yak Welcome and Remarks

Director, FAA Technical Center

1:00 pm Shelley Yak/Steve Summer Update on the Technical Center Research Landscape

1:30 pm John Dermody HQ ARP Update

Director

FAA Office of Airports Safety and Standards

1:45 pm Michel Hovan ATR Update

Manager, Airports Technology Research Branch

2:00 pm Subcommittee Members and FAA Review of REDAC Recommendations

2:30 pm Jim Patterson Overview of Safety RPA’s

Airport Safety R&D Section Manager New Research Requests 19 (Safety and Environment)

2:45 pm Break

3:00 pm Michel Hovan/Joe Breen Aircraft Braking Friction Program, update

Runway Grooving Program, update

3:45 pm Jeff Gagnon Overview of pavement RPA’s

Airport pavement R&D Section Manager

4:00 pm Jeff Gagnon 10 year pavement R&D Plan

Presentation of main elements

4:30 pm Subcommittee Members and FAA Wrap-up Day 1

5:00 pm Adjourn
Day 2: July 31, 2019

Time Presenter(s) Topic

8:30 am Subcommittee Members and FAA IOU’s from Day 1

8:45 am Isidore Venetos Cybersecurity R&D plan Update

9:00 am Visit to the new ARRF Research Facility

10:30 am Break

10:45 am Subcommittee Members and FAA Membership review and discussions

11:15 am Subcommittee Members FAA Recommendations

12:00 am Adjourn
Airports Subcommittee

Summer/Fall 2019

July 30, 2019 July 31, 2019

Name Affiliation Name Affiliation

Rich Speir ARA Erin DeBarth GDIT

Lauren Vitagliano FAA John McGrath GDIT

Mike DiPilato FAA Holly Cyrus FAA

Joe Breen FAA Tong Vu FAA

Erin DeBarth GDIT John Barkowski AAAE

John McGrath GDT Frank F. Frank F., LLC

Chris Seher ARA Sarah Hubbard Purdue

Steve Summer FAA Scott Marsh PANYNJ

Murphy Lynn FAA Shailesh Gongal MASSPORT

Jonathan Torres FAA Chris Oswald ACI-NA

Wilfredo Villafane FAA Al Pollard Martin State

Ryan Rutter FAA Jeff Gagnon FAA

David R. Brill FAA Jim Paterson FAA

Qingge Jia FAA Jim Mack CEMEX

Navneet Garg FAA Isidore Venetos FAA (Phone)

Hossein Eghbali FAA Dan Deissner Boeing (Phone)

Jaime Figueroa FAA Matt Griffin ACC (Phone)

Shamir Short Gemini/FAA Chinita Roundtree-Coleman FAA

Holly Cyrus FAA

Shailesh G. MASSPORT

Matt Griffin ACC

Frank F. Frank F. LLC

Jeff S. ALPA

Justin Barkowski AAAE

Sarah H. Purdue

Al Pollard Martin State

Jim Patterson FAA

Jeff Gagnon FAA

Jim Mack CEMEX

Evanigio Costa Boeing

Gary L. Mitchell ACPA

Shelley Yak FAA

Michel Hovan FAA

Chris Oswald ACI-NA

Angela Campbell FAA

Keith Bagot FAA

Scott M. ARA

Chinita Roundtree-Coleman FAA