1

1 Environmental Protection Agency

2

3

4

5

6 Public Hearing on

7 Proposed Clean Power Plan for

8 Existing Power Plants

9

10

11

12 9:00 a.m. to 7:15 p.m.

13 Tuesday, July 29, 2014

14

15

16 Room B

17 Environmental Protection Agency

18 William Jefferson Clinton East Building

19 1201 Constitution Avenue, N.W.

20 Washington, D.C. 20004

21

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1 PAGE

2 EPA PANEL 1: 10

3 BETH CRAIG, EPA, Chair

4 BILL STEVENS, EPA

5 MISHA ADAMANTIADES, EPA

6

7 EPA PANEL 2: 188

8 ALEX BARRON, EPA, Chair

9 ERICH ESCHMANN, EPA

10 CRHIS SHERRY, EPA

11

12 EPA PANEL 3: 347

13 STEVE PAGE, EPA, Chair, Director

14 Office of Air Quality Planning & Standards, 

15 Office of Air & Radiation 

16 ERICH ESCHMANN, EPA

17 Office of Atmospheric Programs

18 BARRY ELMAN, EPA, Office of Planning

19

20 Morning Session 10

21 Afternoon Session 188

22 Evening Session 347

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1 I N D E X PAGE

2 Michael Langford, President of the

3 Utility Workers Union of America 16

4 Logan Hollers, Environmental Attorney 23

5 Steve Cheney, Chief Executive Officer

6 of the American Security Project 30

7 David Scott, President, Sierra Club's

8 National Board of Directors 35

9 Ann Gray Haynes, Health Educator 41

10 Alexander G. Fassbender, CEO of EcoVia

11 Corporation 43

12 Marty Hayden, Vice President of Policy

13 and Legislation at Earthjustice 47

14 Joanna Diamond, Director of Environment

15 Maryland 52

16 Cristobal Alex, President of the

17 Latino Victory Project 57

18 David Doniger, Director, Climate & Clean

19 Air Program, Natural Resources Defense

20 Council. 62 

21 Derek Murrow, Director of Federal

22 Energy Policy for NRDC 67

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1 I N D E X (Continued) PAGE

2 Jeffrey Bloczynski, Associate VP, Economic

3 Analysis, American Coalition for

4 Clean Coal Electricity 71

5 Samantha Ahdoot, Practicing Pediatrician 76

6 Rev. Lennox Yearwood, President, 

7 Hip-Hop Caucus 80

8 Mark Magana, President of GreenLatinos 85

9 Kimberly Glas, Executive Director of the

10 BlueGreen Alliance 89

11 Danny Lutz, West Virginia resident 94

12 John Christensen, West Virginia resident 100

13 Dick Wilson, International Brotherhood of

14 Electrical Workers 107

15 Regina Hendrix, West Virginia resident 112

16 David Belote, Retired Air Force Colonel 115

17 Megan Severson, State Advocate for

18 Wisconsin Environment 119

19 Martha Ehlman, Owner, Harper’s Ferry 124

20 Jonathan Jacoby, Concerned citizen 129

21 Sasha Tenenbaum, Mom's Clean Air Force 129

22 Frances Crutchfield, Concerned citizen 135

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1 I N D E X (Continued) PAGE

2 Richard Kennedy, Economic Analyst, CIA 136

3 Stan Boyd, Concerned citizen 140

4 Adam Tiffen, U.S. Army Veteran 144

5 David Berry, Sustainable Water Resources

6 Roundtable 150

7 Ron Edelstein, Director, Regulatory &

8 Government Relations with the Gas

9 Technology Institute 156

10 James Griffin, International Brotherhood

11 of Electrical Workers Local Union 1900 158

12 Meredyth Gottschall (For Jay Cancellor) 163

13 Walter Tsou, Philadelphia Physicians

14 for Social Responsibility 167

15 Cindy Parker, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg

16 School of Public Health 170

17 Victor Goldberg, Concerned citizen 174

18 Anna Aurilio, Office for Environment

19 America 175

20 Terry Wiliams, Concerned citizen 181

21 Mya Jefferson, Saul Agricultural School,

22 Philadelphia 184

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1 I N D E X (Continued) PAGE

2 Nicola Bastian, West Virginia resident 185

3 Frank Sturges, (For Robert D. Brown) 194

4 Ralph Grove, Sierra Club. 200

5 Michelle Freeman, Pennsylvania resident 203 

6 Larry Roussell, Concerned citizen 208

7 Dr. Jonathan Arnon, Concerned citizen 209

8 Joe Cook, Virginia resident 212

9 Regina Neblott, Concerned citizen 217

10 Ellis W. James, Concerned citizen 220

11 Marjorie Leach-Parker, Concerned citizen 223

12 Thomas Burkett, Concerned citizen 228

13 Trisha Sheehan, Concerned citizen 235

14 Susan Bonney, Virginia resident 240

15 Dr. Bryan Crenshaw, Biomedical Scientist,

16 Children's Hospital in Philadelphia 244

17 Zach Drennen, Concerned citizen 246

18 Ethan Spaner, National Wildlife Federation 253

19 Sara Chieffo, Concerned citizen 257

20 Linda Tsang, American Forest & Paper

21 Association & American Wood Council 263

22

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1 I N D E X (Continued) PAGE

2 Kendyl Crawford, Concerned citizen 267

3 David Burns, National Wildlife Federation 270

4 James Lytle, Concerned citizen 280

5 Allison Homer, Virginia resident 282

6 Brent Murcia, Concerned citizen 287

7 Reed McGinley-Stempel, Concerned citizen 292

8 Phoebe Long, Concerned citizen 295

9 Turner Lott, Concerned citizen 298

10 Kristina Lynn, Concerned citizen 302

11 Dr. Janet Miller, Science Teacher

12 in Delaware 305

13 Reverend Dr. Jim Ball, Evangelical

14 Environmental Network 309

15 Alfonso Lopez, Member of the

16 Virginia House of Delegates 314

17 Eric Klein, Concerned citizen 321

18 Gerry Fuller, Concerned citizen 322

19 Jim Schulman, Sierra Waste Committee 325

20 Claudia Malloy, National Wildlife

21 Federation 331

22

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1 I N D E X (Continued) PAGE

2 Teja Sathi, Thomas Jefferson High School

3 for Science and Technology 335

4 Lara Levison, Concerned citizen 338

5 Mollie Simon, Concerned citizen 344

6 Charles Rories, Virginia resident 355

7 Spencer Schecht, Concerned citizen 360

8 Samantha Spaccasi, Sophomore at

9 Oberlin College 365

10 Kathleen Holbrook McLeod, D.C. chapter

11 of the Sierra Club 369

12 Jane Kirchner, Concerned citizen 374

13 Wendy Fleit, Concerned citizen 379

14 Steph Davis, Cell Biologist 383

15 David Smedick, The Sierra Club 387

16 Ann Darwicki, Registered Nurse 391

17 Kirk Bowers, Conservation Chair of the

18 Piedmont Group of the Sierra Club 394

19 Amery Fischer, Concerned citizen 397

20 Aaron Phillips, District of Columbia

21 Resident 400

22

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1 I N D E X (Continued) PAGE 

2 Ryan Crowley, Washington, D.C.

3 Chapter of the Sierra Club 402

4 Arthur Elkins, Delaware Sierra Club 405

5 Bradley Green, District of Columbia

6 Resident 410

7 Tom Vincent, Clean Energy Association 412

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 EPA Panel 1

3 MS. CRAIG: Good morning.

4 ATTENDEES: Good morning.

5 MS. CRAIG: My name is Beth Craig and I'm 

6 one of the Chairs of today's public hearing. 

7 Thank you for coming today.

8 Joining me on the panel this morning are 

9 Bill Stevens and Misha Adamantiades. 

10 We're here today to listen to your 

11 comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 

12 pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 

13 of these proposed rules on June 2nd, 2014. 

14 Power plants are the largest source of 

15 carbon pollution in the U.S. accounting for, 

16 roughly, one-third of all domestic greenhouse gas 

17 emissions.

18 The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 

19 Power Plan for existing power plants. This 

20 proposal consists of two main parts: state21 specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 

22 power plants and guidelines to help states 

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1 develop their plans for meeting the goals.

2 This proposal gives states flexibility in 

3 determining how to meet their goals. States will 

4 choose what goes into their plans that show how 

5 they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 

6 their goals by 2030.

7 The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 

8 address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 

9 and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 

10 set emission limits for two groups of power 

11 plants: those that make physical or operational 

12 changes that increase the plant's maximum 

13 achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 

14 that replace components to such an extent that 

15 the new components exceed 50 percent of the 

16 capital cost of an entirely new comparable 

17 facility.

18 If you'd like more details on either of 

19 these proposed rules, they are fact sheets 

20 available near the registration desk.

21 Today's hearing is one of four public 

22 hearings across the country this week on the two

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1 proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 

2 in each of the hearings, and I'd like to thank 

3 you for taking time out of your day today to join 

4 us and share your comments.

5 We have a lot of people signed up to 

6 speak and we want to hear from all of them. So 

7 before we get started, I'd like to go through a 

8 few housekeeping items and ground rules that will 

9 help make today's hearing run smoothly.

10 First, please be sure that you checked in 

11 at the registration desk even if you're not 

12 planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 

13 speak online or by phone, but haven't told us 

14 that you're here, please step out to the 

15 registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 

16 you've arrived.

17 Second, if you're a speaker, you were 

18 given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 

19 or B, and this is Room B.

20 So here's how the tiering will work. I 

21 will call speakers up in pairs and when your name 

22 is called, please come to the table at the front 

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1 of the room.

2 Depending upon how many people have 

3 checked in, I may be able to tell the second 

4 group of people that they're going to be next in 

5 line, so you can get prepared for that, as well.

6 And when I call on you to speak, please 

7 state your name and spell it for the court 

8 reporter. Your comments will be transcribed and 

9 included in the record of comments on the 

10 proposed rule.

11 Each speaker will have five minutes to 

12 give comments. We have a light to help you know 

13 how much time you have left to speak. 

14 When the light turns from green to 

15 yellow, that means you have one minute remaining. 

16 When it turns red, that's a signal to wrap up 

17 your testimony. And then then the light will 

18 flash red and beep is when you have spoken for 

19 five minutes and it's time to stop.

20 When you are finished speaking, please 

21 remain at the table until the person next to you 

22 has completed his or her testimony.

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1 We're here to listen today; however, the 

2 panelists may ask you questions to clarify your 

3 comments. 

4 And then I'll call up -- as I said 

5 before, I'll call up the next person, and if I 

6 have the names, be able to tell who is coming 

7 after that.

8 If you have brought a written copy of 

9 your testimony, please give it to the staff at 

10 the registration desk before you leave so it can 

11 be included in the docket.

12 Because of the large number of people who 

13 signed up to speak today and to be fair to 

14 everyone, we're going to strictly enforce the 

15 five-minute limit.

16 And then if you have additional comments 

17 you'd like to make, you can submit them in 

18 writing. There are actually cards out on the 

19 registration desk, as well, as, obviously you can 

20 submit them later for the docket.

21 And please let me ensure you that EPA 

22 gives as much consideration to comments we 

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1 receive in writing, as we do to comments we 

2 receive at public hearings like this one. So if 

3 you have more that you'd like to say, please 

4 submit it and your comments will be reviewed.

5 There is still plenty of time to get 

6 written comments in. Comments must be received 

7 by October 16th, 2014, and we'll put any written 

8 comments submitted today in the official docket.

9 We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 

10 tonight, and we'll take a lunch and dinner break 

11 so everyone can get something to eat. Right now, 

12 the lunch break is scheduled for noon and the 

13 dinner break is scheduled for 5:00.

14 In addition, we may take occasional short 

15 breaks throughout the day, as needed, and we'll 

16 let you know when we're going to be taking a 

17 break.

18 If you have any questions during the day, 

19 please see the staff at the registration desk and 

20 someone will try to help you.

21 And, finally, I'm sure I don't need to 

22 say this, but I want to ask each of you to be 

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1 respectful of everyone who speaks today. We will 

2 have people with a wide variety of views in the 

3 audience, and we want to hear from everyone. 

4 So we ask that everyone listen quietly, 

5 and even applause can slow folks down. So we 

6 want to hear from everyone who is signed up 

7 today. 

8 So thank you, again, for taking time out 

9 to join us today. 

10 And we're going to get started, and the 

11 first two speakers are D. Michael Langford and 

12 Logan L. Hollers. 

13 And then -- do I have the right room? No 

14 one has moved -- yes, okay. That's good, because 

15 I was afraid since I could have been given the 

16 wrong names or the wrong room.

17 And then the next team will be -- the 

18 next pair will be David Scott and General Chang.

19 So, Mr. Langford, would you please go 

20 first?

21 MR. LANGFORD: Okay. My name is David 

22 Michael Langford, L-A-N-G-F-O-R-D. I'm President 

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1 of the Utility Workers Union of America.

2 I wish to thank EPA for this opportunity 

3 to provide our views on the Proposed Clean Power 

4 Plan, and its likely impacts on utility workers, 

5 especially for the thousands of UWUA members 

6 employed in the electric power generating 

7 facilities.

8 The UWUA represents 50,000 employees in 

9 the electric generation, distribution and other 

10 utility industries.

11 The future of our members employed in 

12 power-generating facilities including the welfare 

13 of their families and their communities will be 

14 vitally impacted by the final rule adopted by EPA 

15 in this matter.

16 UWUA members will also be directly 

17 affected by the State Implementation Plans the 

18 states will ultimately adopt in order to comply 

19 with EPA proposed rule.

20 Given the enormous stake our members have 

21 in these decisions, we would like to offer our 

22 recommendations for how our nation can 

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1 substantially reduce carbon emissions while also 

2 protecting existing jobs in utilities and related 

3 industries.

4 First, we urge the final rule should 

5 encourage the states to embrace in their State 

6 Implementation Plans, concrete support for new 

7 technologies that will protect existing jobs 

8 while reducing emissions.

9 We strongly support the flexibility given 

10 to the states in the proposed rule to determine 

11 how best to reduce carbon emissions.

12 In addition, however, we believe that the 

13 rule should specifically encourage the states to 

14 embrace policies that will support the 

15 modernization of existing power generation 

16 infrastructure so critical to many of our states' 

17 economies.

18 This should include a recognition that 

19 coal will continue to play an important role in 

20 meeting our essential power needs. In our view, 

21 technology such as carbon capture and 

22 sequestration are essential not only to protect 

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1 the thousands of family-supporting jobs 

2 associated with coal-fired generation, but also 

3 as an essential component of any workable plan to 

4 address climate change. 

5 With power demand surging around the 

6 globe and with countries such as China and India 

7 expected to continue to build new coal-fired 

8 plants to power their growing economies, 

9 effective carbon capture and sequestration will 

10 be essential if we have any chance of reducing 

11 carbon emissions on a global level.

12 And just as we believe the U.S. should 

13 play a leading role in developing and exporting 

14 renewable energy technologies such as wind and 

15 solar, the U.S. should also take the lead in 

16 developing carbon capture and sequestration, as 

17 well as other technologies, to significantly 

18 reduce emissions from coal-fired power plants.

19 With federal support, NRG Energy 

20 recently began construction of a 1 billion carbon 

21 capture project designed to remove 1.6 million 

22 tons of carbon dioxide a year from emissions from 

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1 a power plant near Houston, Texas. This will be 

2 one of the largest carbon capture projects 

3 operating at a commercial scale and is an 

4 important first step, but much more needs to be 

5 done.

6 Other technologies are also available to 

7 increase the efficiency of coal-fired plants so 

8 that the total carbon emissions are reduced.

9 Similarly, our nation's electric power 

10 grid desperately needs modernization. One 

11 important benefit of grid modernization is that 

12 transmission over the grid will become more 

13 efficient, which, in turn, will reduce overall 

14 emissions from power generation.

15 In short, we urge that the final Clean 

16 Power Plan should encourage the states to include 

17 concrete support for technologies designed to 

18 modernize and sustain existing generation 

19 facilities as part of the overall plans to reduce 

20 carbon emissions while also protecting jobs. 

21 Second, we urge that the final rule should 

22 encourage the states to conduct state-specific 

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1 job impact assessments in their State 

2 Implementation Plans and to provide detailed 

3 plans for mitigating any expected adverse impacts 

4 stemming from implementation of the rule on 

5 dislocated workers and their communities.

6 In our view, federal and state regulators 

7 must plan in advance for the economic 

8 dislocations that will inadvertently occur 

9 whenever new regulatory policies are introduced. 

10 This includes the need to identify adequate 

11 funding sources for programs to assist workers 

12 and communities that may find themselves the 

13 innocent victims of the shift toward low-carbon 

14 energy. 

15 In the proposed rule itself, EPA 

16 estimates that up to 50 gigawatts of coal-fired 

17 generation could be taken offline by 2030 as a 

18 result of implementation. The proposed rule also 

19 implicitly recognizes that, while this historic 

20 shift in national energy policy will create new 

21 jobs in new industries, there's no guarantee that 

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1 related industries will be the beneficiaries of 

2 these new jobs.

3 We believe that any regulatory policy 

4 that transfers the full cost of compliance onto 

5 standard workers and communities is bad policy.

6 We, therefore, recommend that the final 

7 rule should urge the states to include in their 

8 State Implementation Plans state-specific job 

9 impact assessments coupled with specific plans to 

10 mitigate any adverse job impacts. These should 

11 include transitional programs and designated 

12 sources of funding to support --

13 MS. CRAIG: Mr. Langford, can you wrap 

14 up, please.

15 MR. LANGFORD: -- oh, I'm sorry. I 

16 wasn't looking at your light there. I just have 

17 a few more points -- wage benefits, and 

18 retraining for utility workers, mine workers and 

19 others who may become displaced as a result of 

20 the shift toward lower-carbon energy; expansion 

21 of existing economic development programs that 

22 enable communities to respond to power plant 

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1 closures or downsizing; and, support for the 

2 development of new energy projects and 

3 technologies in communities most impacted by this 

4 shift in national policy, and guarantees.

5 In summary, we don't want this to become 

6 a Rust Belt issue. We would like to work with 

7 EPA to encourage the new technologies and to be 

8 able to work on stranded workers and communities.

9 Again, thank you.

10 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much, Mr. 

11 Langford. Mr. Hollers.

12 MR. HOLLERS: Good morning. First of 

13 all, I'd like to start by thanking the EPA and 

14 today's panel for --

15 MS. CRAIG: Would you please spell your 

16 name for the court reporter.

17 MR. HOLLERS: Oh, I apologize. Logan 

18 Hollers, L-O-G-A-N, H-O-L-L-E-R-S. Thank you.

19 I'm an environmental attorney that lives 

20 here in beautiful D.C. and I'm here today on 

21 behalf of the D.C. Chapter of the Sierra Club 

22 testifying in support of the proposed Clean Power 

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1 Plan. I also want to thank the panel and the EPA 

2 for allowing the public to comment on such a 

3 vitally important issue.

4 As I'm sure the panel is aware, the U.S. 

5 is rapidly running out of time to address climate 

6 change and, more specifically, to address the 

7 problem of greenhouse gas emissions from existing 

8 coal-fired power plants.

9 We need a solution that ensures the power 

10 generation our country needs and also purges us 

11 of the unnecessary pollution and toxins our 

12 country must get rid of. The EPA's proposed 

13 Clean Power Plan is about achieving precisely 

14 that balance. 

15 I want to take just a brief moment to 

16 address a few kind of introductory points. 

17 Regardless of what some on Capitol Hill would 

18 have us believe, there's no longer a debate over 

19 the role of carbon emissions and climate change. 

20 It's now a near universally-accepted scientific 

21 fact that in the words of NASA, "Increased 

22 atmospheric CO2 concentration is the most 

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1 important long-lived 'forcing' of climate change.

2 In its recently released Fourth 

3 Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on 

4 Climate Change, which is a group of over a 

5 thousand independent scientific experts from 

6 countries across the world, concluded there's a 

7 more than 90-percent probability that fuel8 produced greenhouse gases, the principal of which 

9 is carbon dioxide, are responsible for much of 

10 the observed increase in the planet's temperature 

11 over the past 50 years.

12 Now, this carbon pollution has a 

13 multitude of effects. It exacerbates climate 

14 disruption and contributes to more frequent and 

15 more violent weather occurrences that cost local 

16 communities, the federal government and our 

17 economy billions of dollars per year.

18 And carbon pollution is also a 

19 significant threat to public health. According 

20 to the American Lung Association, nearly half of 

21 all Americans now live in areas where the air is 

22 unsafe to breathe.

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1 In light of all of this information about 

2 the negative externalities and destructive power 

3 of carbon emissions pollution from coal-fired 

4 power plants, the single most important fact 

5 remains that these power plants account for 

6 nearly 40 percent of all carbon pollution in the 

7 United States.

8 Clearly, the nation is in desperate need 

9 of a common sense, environmentally sound 

10 solution. And that's exactly what the EPA's 

11 proposed Clean Power Plan offers.

12 The best thing in the Sierra Club's 

13 perspective about the Clean Power Plan is that it 

14 achieves multiple goals from a holistic 

15 perspective. 

16 First and foremost, the plan will 

17 drastically reduce one of the most pressing 

18 threats to humanity today, carbon pollution from 

19 power plants fueling climate change; second, the 

20 plan will have far-reaching and concrete impacts 

21 on public health by preventing up to 150,000 

22 asthma attacks and over 6,000 premature deaths 

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1 annually by 2030 and by combating and reducing 

2 nearly 12,000 visits to the emergency room and 

3 more than $100 billion in health costs per year 

4 resulting from coal pollution.

5 Clearly, the plan will drive innovation 

6 in developing and building clean energy sources 

7 that will power the 21st century growing both the 

8 nation's economy and creating jobs, two goals 

9 that transcend sides of any political act.

10 Finally, the plan will lead to public 

11 benefits in terms of healthy climate estimated at 

12 over $60 billion per year in 2030, far 

13 outweighing the costs of implementing the plan.

14 Now, these costs associated with 

15 implementing the Clean Power Plan are likely to 

16 provoke some heated discussion both at these 

17 discussions and in the coming months. However, 

18 numerous independent studies have reached the 

19 conclusion that impacts on electricity rates will 

20 be modest and can be accompanied by long-term 

21 benefits. 

22 The Clean Power Plan recognizes that 

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1 every state is different. While naturally 

2 requiring significant reductions in CO2 

3 emissions, the Clean Power Plan is unique in 

4 allowing each state the flexibility to determine 

5 its preferred method of complying with these new 

6 requirements, and that flexibility is key. 

7 It ensures that states will be able to 

8 prepare and implement their state plans that fit 

9 their own circumstances minimizing the state cost 

10 of compliance. And in the end, the states remain 

11 in control. 

12 Thankfully, states have a long and 

13 demonstrated track record of using various 

14 regulatory tools, whether those are tax, 

15 reliability, labor or environmental in nature, to 

16 encourage utilities in investments that minimize 

17 the cost of electric service.

18 Members of the panel, the Clean Power 

19 Plan is long overdue and vitally important and 

20 must be implemented nationwide without further 

21 delay. This Administration, with its promises of 

22 "strong action" on climate change, has a moral 

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1 obligation to address this issue. 

2 This agency with its stated mission to 

3 "protect human health in the environment" has a 

4 moral obligation to address this issue.

5 The Clean Power Plan both will allow 

6 states the flexibility they need to develop 

7 customizable plans to reduce carbon emissions, 

8 keep American energy affordable, reliable and 

9 sustainable and ensure that every person has 

10 clean air to breathe.

11 I, on behalf of the Sierra Club, applaud 

12 and support the EPA's efforts and intent to 

13 establish strong national limits on carbon 

14 pollution from existing coal-fired power plants, 

15 and I thank you for your leadership and action on 

16 this important issue.

17 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much.

18 Our next panel is David Scott and General 

19 Cheney. And after that, it's Ann Haynes and 

20 Alexander G. Fassbender.

21 MR. CHENEY: I might be alone. I'm 

22 Cheney.

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1 MS. CRAIG: Okay. And would you please 

2 spell your name.

3 MR. CHENEY: I will. I'm Steve Cheney, 

4 C-H-E-N-E-Y. I'm the Chief Executive Officer of 

5 the American Security Project.

6 Thank you for the opportunity to comment 

7 on the Environmental Protection Agency's Clean 

8 Power Plan and proposed rule.

9 I'm here today to commend the EPA for its 

10 effort to address climate change. I am not a 

11 regulatory expert, so I will not comment on the 

12 specifics of the rule, but I do support the EPA 

13 for its ambition and goals.

14 My three decades of service in the 

15 Marines taught me that we cannot wait to address 

16 the looming threats. For too long, America's 

17 leaders and congress have failed to address the 

18 challenge of climate change. This failure of 

19 leadership means that we are behind in addressing 

20 this specific challenge.

21 Our armed forces are already acting to 

22 address the very real threats imposed by climate 

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1 change. The military understands the true nature 

2 of this threat. This is not because the military 

3 has suddenly determined that it wants to save the 

4 environment. It is because they see that climate 

5 change presents a clear danger to our national 

6 security.

7 So the military is faced with three 

8 distinct challenges. First, climate change is a 

9 global threat multiplier. That means it will 

10 make already existing threats like political 

11 instability, ethnic tensions, food and security 

12 and poverty worse and more dangerous. 

13 Specific threats to security vary around 

14 the world depending on both the climate and on 

15 the society. For example, in places like South 

16 Asia, sea level rise, diminishing fresh water 

17 resources and increasingly dangerous storms are 

18 combining with ethnic, religious and economic 

19 stresses in a region of the world with highly 

20 militarized borders and too many nuclear weapons.

21 There will be massive migration of people 

22 in this region if climate change continues 

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1 leading people to move into areas where they 

2 could come into conflict with people already 

3 living there.

4 The effects of climate change around the 

5 world will cause resources like food, water and 

6 energy to become more scarce. As the effects of 

7 climate change worsen, states will seek to secure 

8 resources for their own populations at the 

9 expense of their neighbors.

10 While conflict is not inevitable, it is 

11 certainly possible. This is not just the future 

12 we are talking about. Extreme weather events are 

13 already demanding a military response. Typhoon 

14 Haiyan, which made landfall in the Philippines 

15 with maximum-sustained winds estimated at 195 

16 miles an hour, the highest in recorded history, 

17 over 13,000 soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines 

18 from the USS George Washington battle group 

19 responded and they saved lives.

20 Second, climate change will affect 

21 homeland security and that is a growing military 

22 mission. In 2012, active duty and National Guard 

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1 troops responded to New York and New Jersey after 

2 Sandy. 

3 Defense support to civil authority is a 

4 growing mission for our military where our 

5 active-duty troops provide logistical aid, 

6 humanitarian relief and law enforcement support 

7 to civilian authorities. These types of 

8 operations are growing as extreme weather grows 

9 across the country.

10 And third, climate change is a threat to 

11 our military bases at home and around the world. 

12 The United States military manages property in 

13 all 50 states and in seven U.S. Territories and 

14 40 foreign countries.

15 Rising sea levels already are causing 

16 millions of dollars of damage to the Navy's 

17 coastal installations, but they're not alone. 

18 Wildfires have caused evacuations this year at 

19 the Marine Corps at Camp Pendleton, while the 

20 Army has seen extreme rain events wash out areas 

21 of the National Training Center at Fort Irwin. 

22 The military is adapting to these changes, but at 

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1 a cost to taxpayers.

2 For those who question the science, I 

3 would say that reducing greenhouse gases while 

4 implementing measures to adapt to the effects of 

5 climate change is just basic risk management.

6 Military planners routinely operate under 

7 uncertainty and make decisions based on 

8 incomplete information. 

9 In 2001, Dick Cheney said if there is 

10 only a one-percent chance of a terrorist 

11 acquiring a weapon of mass destruction, we have 

12 to act. 

13 Well, today, we have over 99 percent of 

14 scientific papers telling us that human emissions 

15 are causing climate change. Why is it that we 

16 dismiss them?

17 The EPA's proposed rule is an important 

18 step forward in addressing the challenges of 

19 climate change, and I commend them for their 

20 efforts. 

21 If we fail in addressing climate change, 

22 we know that our military will have to respond to 

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1 more disasters, terrorists will have more 

2 recruits to draw from, and the world will see 

3 more conflicts over increasingly scarce resources 

4 and ordinary Americans will pay the price.

5 I thank you very much for listening.

6 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much. 

7 Did David Scott come -- yes. You were 

8 supposed to be part of this panel. 

9 Could you join the General and do your 

10 five minutes, please? If you could, spell your 

11 name for the court reporter, please.

12 MR. SCOTT: Yes. My name is David Scott, 

13 D-A-V-I-D, S-C-O-T-T. I'm the President of 

14 the Sierra Club's National Board of Directors. I 

15 appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today 

16 about why the Sierra Club supports the EPA's 

17 proposed Clean Power Plan.

18 The Clean Power Plan's carbon pollution 

19 standards for existing power plants are an 

20 important and historic step toward addressing one 

21 of the most daunting challenges of our time, 

22 climate disruption.

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1 As superstorm Sandy and other extreme 

2 events have shown the costs of climate inaction 

3 are already too high. We face risks that no 

4 responsible officials would ignore, and we have 

5 no time to lose. 

6 If we are to stem the climate crisis and 

7 protect our children's future, we must move 

8 quickly to climate solutions such as wind and 

9 solar power and energy efficiency.

10 Power Plants are responsible for 40 

11 percent of the carbon pollution in the U.S. By 

12 cleaning up and modernizing power plants, we will 

13 begin to clean up our air, reduce pollution14 related illnesses and curb climate disruption. 

15 Reducing carbon pollution from power 

16 plants will not only save billions of dollars 

17 each year, it will save lives. In fact, for 

18 every dollar of investment under the Plan, we'll 

19 see, roughly, seven dollars in health benefits.

20 The Clean Power Plan will spur 

21 innovation, accelerate the clean energy economy 

22 and create good American jobs because it allows 

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1 states the flexibility to achieve their targets 

2 by increasing renewable energy sources and energy 

3 efficiency. This means more jobs in 

4 manufacturing and installing solar panels, 

5 erecting wind turbines, upgrading the grid and 

6 making homes and businesses more energy7 efficient. 

8 And clean energy jobs tend to be good 

9 jobs. They pay much more than median wage levels 

10 across the economy, and nearly half of them 

11 employ workers who have less than a four-year 

12 college degree.

13 By taking this step to cut carbon 

14 pollution, the Administration is setting the 

15 stage for a shift in how we power our society. 

16 If we are to grow our economy and shift to a 21st 

17 century renewable model for energy production, we 

18 must modernize our infrastructure and diversify 

19 our sources. 

20 Many states are already leading the 

21 change to transition to clean energy. For 

22 example, according to the American Wind Energy 

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1 Association, Iowa and North Dakota now receive 

2 20 percent of their energy from wind power, and 

3 38 states have utility-scale wind installations.

4 The Clean Power Plan creates a strong 

5 framework that will enable states to move towards 

6 clean energy, a framework that puts states in the 

7 driver's seat to create plans to limit carbon 

8 pollution. The carbon pollution standards 

9 present a huge opportunity to improve our 

10 environment, public health and the economy. 

11 The U.S. is well on its way to meeting and 

12 exceeding the EPA-proposed goal, and the states 

13 can be leaders in making the transition to a 

14 clean energy future.

15 The Sierra Club will be working with 

16 allies to strengthen the EPA's carbon standards 

17 for existing power plants. With improvements 

18 that Sierra Club recommends, the Clean Power Plan 

19 could achieve two important ends: reduce power 

20 plant emissions by 35 to 40 percent from 2005 

21 levels by 2020. This is necessary to meet the 

22 president's goal of a 17-percent reduction in 

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1 U.S. carbon emissions from 2005 levels by 2020. 

2 Second, promote energy efficiency and renewable 

3 energy without incentivizing nuclear energy, 

4 natural gas and other dangerous and climate5 disrupting energy sources.

6 In 2012, wind energy and solar 

7 photovoltaics were two of the fastest growing 

8 electric generation technologies in the United 

9 States. Cumulative installed wind energy 

10 capacity increased by nearly 28 percent and 

11 cumulative installed solar photovoltaic capacity 

12 grew more than 83 percent from the previous year. 

13 EPA rightly includes these resources in 

14 setting the state targets, but the availability 

15 and quantity of available opportunities assumed 

16 is too low. With the current account of 

17 retirements of dirty power plants and a more 

18 accurate estimate of growth in the renewable 

19 energy and energy efficiency sectors, the Clean 

20 Power Plan could produce deeper reductions in 

21 carbon emissions.

22 The Sierra Club is determined that the 

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1 Clean Power Plan will result in state carbon 

2 pollution standards that are not only strong, but 

3 just. 

4 This means we will also be working with 

5 our partners to ensure that the most vulnerable 

6 communities are protected by the standards, that 

7 they are consulted throughout the standard8 setting and state plan development process, and 

9 that sufficient public and private resources are 

10 made available to help workers and affected 

11 communities make the transition to the clean 

12 energy economy.

13 MR. CRAIG: Mr. Scott, if you could wrap 

14 up, please.

15 MR. SCOTT: Yes. Poll after poll 

16 demonstrates that the public supports 

17 implementation of the Clean Air Act. We strongly 

18 support EPA’s efforts to clean up dangerous 

19 carbon pollution and we strongly support this 

20 rule. Thank you.

21 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much, panel. 

22 So our next panel is Ann Haynes and 

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1 Alexander G. Fassbender. And the panel after 

2 that is Marty Hayden and Joanna Diamond. 

3 And just a reminder, if you want to leave 

4 your notes with the registration desk, they will 

5 be included in -- from this hearing.

6 Ann Haynes.

7 MS. HAYNES: Yes. My name is Ann Gray 

8 Haynes. My last name is spelled H-A-Y-N-E-S.

9 I'm a health educator – a retired health 

10 educator, but I want to speak about the health 

11 issues.

12 MS. CRAIG: And you may need to speak up 

13 a little.

14 MS. HAYNES: I'm sorry. I have a little 

15 bit of a cold, so --

16 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

17 MS. HAYNES: Climate change and rising 

18 temperatures expose more Americans to conditions 

19 that result in illness and death due to 

20 respiratory illnesses, heat-related stress and 

21 insect-borne diseases.

22 Climate change raises the temperature and 

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1 makes smog pollution worse, triggering asthma 

2 attacks and permanently damaging and reducing 

3 lung function.

4 These negative health effects fall most 

5 heavily on our most vulnerable communities, 

6 including children, older adults, and those with 

7 serious health conditions and the poor.

8 By cleaning up carbon pollution and other 

9 harmful pollutants, including ozone and 

10 particulate matter, will also be reduced.

11 Eliminating these additional pollutants 

12 will prevent up to 150,000 asthma attacks, 6,600 

13 premature deaths and 3,300 heart attacks annually 

14 and will save us up to $93 billion in public 

15 health and climate benefits.

16 You know, I've been struck by people 

17 making the argument about the economy versus the 

18 environment. And I don't know if you saw an 

19 article, an editorial by Robert Rubin in the 

20 Sunday Washington Post. I'd like to read the 

21 last paragraph of his statement: "We do not face 

22 a choice between protecting our environment or 

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1 protecting our economy. We face a choice between 

2 protecting our economy by protecting our 

3 environment or allowing environmental havoc to 

4 create economic havoc." 

5 And a major step towards changing the 

6 debate is to change the way we measure the health 

7 of our economy, our fiscal conditions and the 

8 health of individual companies and businesses to 

9 better reflect the world as it will be.

10 Unfortunately, people are looking at 

11 current economic impacts without thinking about 

12 the larger costs that we're going to have when 

13 climate change really affects us.

14 Thank you.

15 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much.

16 MR. FASSBENDER: My name is Alexander G. 

17 Fassbender. That's F-A-S-S-B-E-N-D-E-R.

18 I am the CEO of EcoVia Corporation, a 

19 registered chemical engineer, and have 

20 affiliations with the EuroCounsel Alliance and 

21 the World Alliance to Produce Centralized Energy.

22 Secretaries -- Energy Secretaries Bodman, 

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1 Chu and Moniz have appointed me to the National 

2 Hope Council since 2007. 

3 I make the point that my comments are my 

4 own and not the position of any of the previously 

5 mentioned organizations.

6 I'm here in support of the EPA 

7 regulations and also President Obama's all of the 

8 above strategy. 

9 Coal is a major source of electricity, 

10 not only in the United States, but around the 

11 world. And all we really need is a conversion 

12 device to create electricity and to deal with the 

13 emissions that come out of it.

14 My background is I worked at the Pacific 

15 Northwest National Laboratory for many decades, 

16 and I was the CTO of a technology and development 

17 company. I’m very familiar with technology 

18 development. 

19 And I look at it as basically the 

20 technology is out there. We can do this. If you 

21 look at patents number 6196000 and 6918253, they 

22 describe a pressurized oxy-fuel technology, which 

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1 is now the study in Canada and China, Italy and 

2 the UK. I know that because I invented it.

3 And I also received two-and-a-half 

4 million dollars-worth of support from the U.S. 

5 EPA and from the Department of Energy and led 

6 studies that involved international major 

7 institutions -- research institutions where we 

8 did –- worked hard with material science work, 

9 carbon dioxide, argon, liquid and vapor 

10 equilibrium studies, heat transfer that support a 

11 complete Aspen model of the technology.

12 The technology is out there. All of the 

13 components are already made and we just need to 

14 put them together and go do it. 

15 So why has this not happened over the 

16 last decade? And I wanted to speak to that a 

17 little bit because I've been an observer of this.

18 You have many capable teams out there. 

19 And while I have come up with one technology, 

20 there are many others that are in the running to 

21 do this and they haven't yet emerged.

22 And I think part of that is that there 

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1 are folks that don't want this to happen because 

2 if you come up with a technology, they feel like 

3 we're compelled to use it and that upsets their 

4 apple cart.

5 So the delay and avoidance is not only 

6 something that you'll find coming from the 

7 utility industry. It's something that's also 

8 somewhat pervasive in some of the research 

9 institutions because if they actually solve this 

10 problem, then they have to find a new mission. 

11 And right now, they have a big mission to do, so 

12 it helps them justify a lot of funding. And 

13 sometimes the preservation of that funding may be 

14 more important than the mission itself. So I 

15 just want to point that out.

16 So I think that the clarity of the 

17 regulations and the flexibility of the 

18 regulations that you've put forward is 

19 extraordinary. It's brilliant and I think it's 

20 workable, and I think that, you know, we just 

21 need to get on with it because this is not 

22 something that requires new science. 

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1 This is just something that requires us 

2 to get on with the task of getting it done 

3 because when these regulations are in place, they 

4 will create a new paradigm, a new profit motive. 

5 And that new profit motive will drive the 

6 implementation of these technologies, and they 

7 will happen much quicker than anyone anticipates 

8 just like catalytic converters and solenoid 

9 starters did. 

10 Thank you very much.

11 MS. CRAIG: Thank you. 

12 The next panel is Marty Hayden and Joanna 

13 Diamond. And the panel after this will be 

14 Cristobal Alex and Derek Murrow.

15 So, Marty Hayden, you can start by giving 

16 us your name.

17 MR. HAYDEN: My name is Marty Hayden. 

18 It's M-A-R-T-Y, H-A-Y-D-E-N. 

19 I'm the Vice President of Policy and 

20 Legislation at Earthjustice. And on behalf of 

21 Earthjustice, I want to thank EPA for moving 

22 forward with the Clean Power Plan.

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1 As we learn more each day about the 

2 threat and pace of climate change, the need for 

3 rapid and significant reductions in U.S. carbon 

4 pollution becomes more imperative.

5 The buzz targets of this rule can and 

6 must be strengthened. The goal to obtain power 

7 plants should be to at least reduce emissions 35 

8 to 40 percent below 2005 levels by 2020, and, 

9 obviously, far more beyond the proposed 30 

10 percent by 2030.

11 Doing less in the power sector frankly is 

12 calling into question the ability of the 

13 President to meet his overall pledge to reduce 

14 U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by 17 percent by 

15 2020.

16 The ten-year schedule for compliance is 

17 far too long. It needs to be broken down into 

18 more than one compliance schedule so short-term 

19 gains can be realized and the program stays on 

20 track to meet its goal.

21 It's also important that the standard be 

22 reviewed at least every eight years similar to 

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1 the performance standard for new sources, 

2 including coal plants, so that the reduction 

3 goals keep pace with the climate science, 

4 technological advancements and actual emission 

5 reductions.

6 Earthjustice will submit written comments 

7 on a number of issues, but today I'm going to 

8 focus on a few key areas that will be critical 

9 for delivering on any reduction targets and their

10 final role, specifically enforcement, monitoring 

11 and verification and reporting. 

12 In the final rule, the EPA must make it 

13 clear who ultimately has the responsibility for 

14 meeting the targets, taking the actions required 

15 by state plans to meet those, from getting the 

16 targets and taking the actions required by state 

17 plans to meet the goals of those plans. 

18 Ambiguous responsibility will lead to emission 

19 reduction goals not being met.

20 Progress reducing pollution and the Clean 

21 Air Act has not only been the result of 

22 independent actions by EPA states, but also the 

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1 citizens holding responsible the parties 

2 accountable to Section 304 of the act. Together 

3 we need to be able to hold accountable power from 

4 these states and third parties for making the 

5 target plans work.

6 Here the programs intended to achieve 

7 state targets must be directly enforceable by 

8 citizens against sources and other parties 

9 responsible for achieving reductions under the 

10 provisions of the state or federal implementation 

11 plans. 

12 States must also be required to show that 

13 they have adequate resources and authority to 

14 implement and verify actual reductions and 

15 enforce their plans. 

16 To aid states and to ease future 

17 implementation, EPA should establish model 

18 federal plans that are published and confirmed in 

19 the final rule. States that propose 

20 implementation plans that are generally 

21 consistent with the model of federal plans should 

22 have a fair level of confidence that their plans 

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1 would be approved.

2 EPA must also provide explicit 

3 requirements in the final rule to assess 

4 quarterly agencies that are promoting obligation 

5 and timing for establishing a plan for states 

6 that have inadequate plans or that fail to submit 

7 any plan. 

8 EPA also needs to create a consistent 

9 accounting framework that applies to each state 

10 for making projections and monitoring progress 

11 toward meeting production targets. Simply put, a 

12 ton of carbon emissions reduced or reported in 

13 one state must be the same as in any other state. 

14 EPA is proposing that it let states figure out

15 how they want to do it within their monitoring 

16 and verification and to put out monitoring and 

17 guidance on this crucially relevant plan. We 

18 need a uniform, reliable methodology for doing 

19 tracking and confirming emission reductions to 

20 ensure this rule delivers the meaningful 

21 reductions intended. 

22 EPA assumes in each state’s role it will 

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1 engage in interstate trading under the Clean 

2 Power Act. The agency needs to establish its 

3 own tracking system for independent trades and 

4 credits and should have (inaudible) program.

5 If states have a good track record of 

6 administering trade programs, for example the 

7 RGGI states, it may be appropriate for the EPA to 

8 delegate its authority provided that there are 

9 thorough requirements of tracking and reporting 

10 emission reductions.

11 Robust requirement for monitoring for 

12 reporting verification and enforcement are 

13 essential for realizing the success for the 

14 elements that are seeing the Clean Power Plan 

15 achieved. 

16 Thank you for the opportunity to share 

17 our views today.

18 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much. Joanna. 

19 MS. DIAMOND: Good morning. My name is 

20 Joanna Diamond, J-O-A-N-N-A, D-I-A-M-O-N-D. And 

21 I am the Director of Environment Maryland.

22 Here in Maryland global warming is not 

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1 some distant threat. It's here right now. 

2 Already sea level rise is threatening the 

3 wetlands and marshes that help make the 

4 Chesapeake Bay one of the most diverse and 

5 productive ecosystems on earth.

6 And an increasing number of extreme 

7 weather events, especially flooding, has taken a 

8 toll in taxing on our already strained roads and 

9 bridges and, of course, extreme heat or extreme 

10 cold have also taken a toll on our utility bills.

11 And that's why Environment Maryland, on 

12 behalf of its 15,000 supporters and members, are 

13 in strong support of the Clean Health Plan as a 

14 vital step and supports the finalization of this 

15 strongest possible plan to cut carbon pollution.

16 Power plants are the single largest U.S. 

17 carbon pollution source. There was a report that 

18 found that 50 dirtiest power plants emit more 

19 carbon each year than all but six countries. 

20 Unfortunately, we're not starting from 

21 scratch. The Clean Power Plan builds on nearly a 

22 decade of investment in clean energy. In 

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1 Maryland, we know we can produce more energy 

2 without any impact to our health. 

3 For years, Maryland has been part of the 

4 Regional Greenhouse Gas Corp., the nation's first 

5 cap on global warming and pollution. And in the 

6 last five years since RGGI went into effect, 

7 power plant emissions from global warming have 

8 fallen more than 30 percent and at the same time 

9 RGGI has helped invest $277 million in Maryland's 

10 energy efficiency programs.

11 And last summer, Governor Mark O'Malley 

12 released Maryland's Greenhouse Gas Reduction Plan 

13 which will result in a 55 million metric ton 

14 reduction of greenhouse gas emissions and $1.6 

15 billion in economic benefits. And this plan 

16 includes many key programs including 

17 strengthening Maryland's Renewable Portfolio 

18 Standard, continued existence in RGGI and 

19 building on the work from EmPOWER. 

20 And Environment Maryland applauds the EPA 

21 for responding to the urgent need, and the huge 

22 scope of the problem means that we actually 

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1 should be doing more. 

2 And according to a recent analysis, the 

3 Clean Power Plan does fall far shy of the 

4 emissions reductions already set by Maryland that 

5 it will achieve through the Greenhouse Gas 

6 Reduction Plan. 

7 So at a minimum, we do ask that 

8 Maryland's Clean Power Plan target shouldn't be 

9 weaker than the targets that Maryland is already 

10 set to achieve.

11 And we know that clean energy works to 

12 cut pollution. Solar energy is thriving in 

13 Maryland. It is twelfth in the nation for solar 

14 energy. 

15 And next month, the Bureau of Ocean 

16 Energy Management will release a wind energy 

17 aerial large enough for 800 to 1,200 megawatts of 

18 offshore wind power. That's about two mid-size 

19 coal plants. 

20 And more clean energy will help reduce 

21 health impacts that are caused by burning dirty 

22 energy for electricity that cost the average 

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1 American household about $73 a month. 

2 And we can build on a future for 

3 generations that is harnessing electricity from 

4 clean sources like solar and wind, and we know 

5 that it can be good for our health, our economy 

6 and our environment. 

7 Thanks so much for your time.

8 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both.

9 Our next panel is Cristobal Alex and 

10 Derek Murrow. And the panel after that, Jeff 

11 Bloczynski and David Doniger.

12 MS. CRAIG: I'm sorry, David. I can't 

13 hear you.

14 MR. DONIGER: I think the list was for 

15 David Doniger to go before me just in terms of

16 -- do you mind if we just swap?

17 MS. CRAIG: You are Derek?

18 MR. MURROW: Yeah.

19 MS. CRAIG: Oh, of course. That would be 

20 fine.

21 So, Cristobal, did you want to go first?

22 MR. ALEX: Yes.

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1 MS. CRAIG: And, if you would, spell your 

2 name for the court reporter, and then Minister 

3 Doniger.

4 MR. ALEX: Thank you. Good morning. My 

5 name is Cristobal Alex, C-R-I-S-T-O-B-A-L. The 

6 last name is A-L-E-X. I'm the President of the 

7 Latino Victory Project. Thank you so much for 

8 the opportunity to testify today.

9 The Latino Victory Project supports the 

10 EPA's rule on carbon emissions for existing power 

11 plants. We believe it is an important step 

12 towards protecting our environment and mitigating 

13 the negative effects that pollution has on the 

14 Latino community.

15 The Latino Victory Project is an 

16 ambitious, non-partisan effort to build power in 

17 the Latino community to ensure that our voices 

18 are reflected at every level of government and in 

19 the policies that drive our country forward. It 

20 was founded by Eva Longoria and Henry Munoz to 

21 fill a void. 

22 We are 17 percent of the U.S. population, 

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1 the nation's largest minority group, and among 

2 the fastest growing, but we do not yet have a 

3 voice commensurate with our shared population.

4 There are more than 53 million Latinos in 

5 the U.S., but we have only eight Latinos elected 

6 to statewide office and only 28 Latinos in the 

7 House of Representatives when it should be more 

8 than twice that. We have never had a Latino 

9 elected to the U.S. Senate. 

10 And what this means is that our voice, 

11 our vote has not been fully heard when it comes 

12 to important policy debates that matter so much 

13 to our community. This is especially true when 

14 it comes to the environment.

15 For us, this rule isn't political. It's 

16 a public health issue and it's an economic issue. 

17 It means that our families are safer and 

18 healthier, that we have an environment, a planet 

19 that we can leave to future generations.

20 And the rule can make a positive 

21 difference in whether or not we have a job. My 

22 parents came to the United States in search of 

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1 the American dream. Like so many others, they 

2 worked hard for their children to have the 

3 opportunity, the chance that they didn't have.

4 My mom, Consuelo, was the eldest of ten 

5 children and worked with her family in the fields 

6 picking cotton from Bakersfield to the panhandle 

7 of Texas. The work was extremely dangerous and 

8 it still is. As each harvesting season becomes 

9 hotter and the temperatures soar, workers in the 

10 fields and in other industries suffer the 

11 consequences. This rule will make our working 

12 conditions safer. 

13 My mom ended up settling her family in El 

14 Paso, Texas. By the time when my brother, 

15 Richie, and I came along, she wasn't working in 

16 the fields, but she was working three jobs so 

17 that we'd have the chance that she didn't have. 

18 She is what Eva Longoria calls the "CEO of the 

19 family." 

20 And growing up in El Paso, you noticed a 

21 few things: the beautiful dessert, the Franklin 

22 Mountains and, unfortunately, a great deal of 

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1 smog and pollution. Some days you can't even see 

2 the mountains and it's getting worse.

3 The skyline is dominated by smoke stacks. 

4 It's a poor community and we suffer greatly from 

5 the effects of dirty air. This rule would make 

6 our air cleaner and improve the health of our 

7 community.

8 No other group scores as high as Latinos 

9 when it comes to the environment, especially in 

10 unclean air and water. Nationally, nine in ten 

11 Latinos want the government to take action 

12 against the dangers of global warming and climate 

13 change. 

14 Eight in ten Latinos want the President 

15 to curb the pollution that causes climate change, 

16 and this is because we are uniquely impacted by 

17 carbon pollution and climate change. It is both 

18 a public health issue and an economic one.

19 Nearly half of all Latinos live in areas 

20 with unhealthy air. Climate change further 

21 exacerbates this unhealthy air quality with an 

22 extreme rise in heat days. The impacts include 

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1 asthma attacks from which Hispanics are three 

2 times more likely than whites to end up in a 

3 hospital.

4 Shockingly, Hispanic children are 40 

5 percent more likely to die from asthma as 

6 compared to non-Hispanic whites.

7 Moreover, Latinos play a large role in 

8 the clean energy economy, and adding more clean 

9 energy jobs will greatly impact and benefit our 

10 community which has a disproportionately higher 

11 unemployment rate.

12 Latinos see and feel the impact of 

13 climate change in the most fundamental areas of 

14 their lives, their health and their economic 

15 well-being.

16 In 2012, we saw the power of the Latino 

17 vote and what happens when nearly 12 million 

18 Latinos' voices are heard. We have a ways to go, 

19 but we know Latinos continue to exercise that 

20 power to ensure that Latino voices are heard.

21 And an overwhelming number of Latinos 

22 support the Administration's efforts to limit 

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1 carbon pollution from power plants. 

2 The Latino Victory Project will continue 

3 to engage Latino voters and leaders to elevate 

4 and advance values that are important to the 

5 Latino community and to all Americans, including 

6 a healthy and sustainable environment that we can 

7 leave to future generations.

8 Thank you.

9 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much. 

10 Mr. Doniger.

11 MR. DONIGER: Thanks very much. 

12 I'm David Doniger, D-A-V-I-D, D-O-N-I-G13 E-R. I'm the Director of the Climate and Clean 

14 Air Program of the Natural Resources Defense 

15 Council. 

16 Thanks for the opportunity to speak today 

17 on behalf of our 1.4 million members and 

18 activists in support of the Clean Power Plan.

19 Several of our colleagues will be 

20 testifying over the course of the hearings here 

21 and in other locations on different aspects of 

22 the proposal.

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1 The EPA's proposal is a giant leap 

2 forward in implementing President Obama's Climate 

3 Action Plan announced in June 2013.

4 The question the President said then is 

5 "whether we'll have the courage to act before 

6 it's too late and how we answer will have a 

7 profound impact on the world we leave behind not 

8 just to you, but to the children and 

9 grandchildren. As the President, as a father, as 

10 an American, I'm here to say we need to act."

11 The President has set out a specific 

12 timetable for proposing and promulgating these 

13 standards for the nation's more than 1,500 

14 existing power plants. 

15 Power plants are the most important place 

16 to act because they account for nearly 40 percent 

17 of the nation's carbon pollution, more than two 

18 billion tons of carbon dioxide each year.

19 We limit all the other air pollutants 

20 that come from power plants, the sulphur, the 

21 nitrogen compounds that form dangerous soot and 

22 smog, as well as mercury and dozens of other 

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1 hazardous air pollutants, but there are no 

2 federal limits on the carbon pollution that 

3 drives dangerous climate change threatening our 

4 health and well-being and that of our children 

5 and grandchildren and our future generations. 

6 So NRDC applauds the EPA for proposing 

7 these standards. With hundreds of thousands of 

8 others, our members are raising their voices in 

9 strong support of what you're doing.

10 And we're all going to be working with 

11 state and local officials, power companies and 

12 other stakeholders across the country to begin 

13 developing smart and flexible state plans that 

14 advance energy efficiency including energy 

15 sources to protect our health in the future while 

16 creating jobs and reducing electrical bills.

17 The carbon reductions that these 

18 standards will achieve, 26 percent below 2005 

19 levels by 2020, and 30 percent by 2030, are 

20 substantial.

21 In our view, even the larger reductions, 

22 30 to 35 percent below 2005 by 2020 are 

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1 achievable and cost-effective in these time 

2 periods.

3 We'll have more to say later in these 

4 hearings and detailed comments on that 

5 opportunity.

6 EPA's legal authority and responsibility 

7 to curb carbon pollution under the Clean Air Act 

8 is rock solid. The Supreme Court has upheld 

9 EPA's authority three times: in 2007, in 2011 

10 and, again, last month.

11 Under Section 111(d), EPA is on solid 

12 ground in proposing state-specific targets that 

13 recognize differences in how power is generated 

14 across the country. 

15 EPA is on solid ground setting targets 

16 based on reductions achievable using the range of 

17 methods available across the electric system to 

18 reduce power plant carbon emissions including 

19 cleaning up existing plants, using clean air 

20 resources more intensively, expanding zero21 emitting generation and reducing energy waste.

22 Each of the four building blocks effectively 

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1 reduces the emissions of the affected facilities.

2 And EPA is also on solid ground giving 

3 states and affected facilities substantial 

4 flexibility to achieve the performance target 

5 through different combinations and measures than 

6 those EPA used to set the target.

7 Contrary to some, there is nothing in the 

8 statutory language that limits EPA to consider 

9 only measures implemented at each affected source 

10 itself when setting the level of the emission 

11 reductions required by the documents. 

12 To the contrary, the term "best system of 

13 emission reduction" and other features of the 

14 statutory language indicate EPA's discretion to 

15 set targets based on the reductions achievable 

16 using the full range of measures available across 

17 our electricity system. 

18 So, in sum, we strongly support the steps 

19 EPA is taking under the Climate Action Plan and 

20 the Clean Air Act to place meaningful first-ever 

21 limits on the carbon pollution in the existing 

22 power plants. 

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1 And we look forward to continuing 

2 collaboration of states, industry and other key 

3 stakeholders to craft and implement strong 

4 effective carbon pollution standards to protect 

5 our children's health in the future. 

6 Thanks.

7 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both.

8 The next panel is Derek Murrow and Jeff 

9 Bloczynski. 

10 And if you could start by spelling your 

11 name for the court reporter, please.

12 MR. MURROW: Thank you. My name is Derek 

13 Murrow, D-E-R-E-K, M-U-R-R-O-W. 

14 I'm the Director of Federal Energy Policy 

15 for NRDC. And building on my colleague, David's, 

16 comments, I am here also to support EPA in their 

17 proposal to make the case or even make it 

18 stronger to ensure we limit pollution and protect 

19 future generations of Americans from the impacts 

20 of climate change.

21 I'm going to discuss really briefly our 

22 response to your proposal on the establishment of 

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1 the best system of emissions reduction and the 

2 building blocks of EPA to set the state emissions 

3 goal.

4 I'm going to focus on building blocks one 

5 and two, and my colleague is testifying tomorrow 

6 and will talk about blocks three and four.

7 EPA's proposed targets can and should be 

8 strengthened. The pollution reductions could be 

9 greater at a reasonable cost in both the near 

10 term and the long term. 

11 It's important to note, though, that the 

12 amount of reductions identified as feasible for 

13 each block does not indicate the amount that 

14 block should or will be relied on for a state, 

15 meaning for a state to meet its target. 

16 Each block is simply an inventory of the 

17 available tools to cut power sector carbon 

18 pollution. And when EPA admits or underestimates 

19 the potential contribution of a block, it's 

20 underestimating the amount of pollution cleanup 

21 that's feasible in a state when a state has 

22 significant flexibility in terms of the tools it 

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1 uses to achieve the standard.

2 So in terms of block one, coal plant 

3 efficiency, this block is currently limited to 

4 coal plant efficiency improvements of 6 percent, 

5 but it ignores capital projects such as turbine 

6 wind replacements or coal-firing of other fuels.

7 We're in the process of reviewing your 

8 analysis to determine whether higher levels of 

9 efficiency and other operational changes at power 

10 plants should have been included.

11 In terms of natural gas and coal 

12 dispatch, block two, this block has a significant 

13 impact on the relative stringency of each state's 

14 target and the block produces coal generation 

15 based on the amount of underutilized natural gas 

16 and combined capacity in the state.

17 In assessing the emissions reduction, 

18 this block can achieve state-by-state, the 

19 proposal fails to account for the existing trend 

20 of the retiring role of the high-emissions 

21 fossil-fired plants, primarily coal, in favor of 

22 new lower zero-emission resources.

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1 This means that EPA has set 2030 as a 

2 goal that some states can easily achieve, 

3 particularly states that are coal-dominated and 

4 coal-intensive.

5 To ensure that this block in the proposal 

6 has achieved additive reductions in carbon 

7 pollution, it should be adjusted to account for 

8 the planned and anticipated coal and other fossil 

9 plant retirements and general rates of generation 

10 change from coal to lower-emitting resources. 

11 In other words, EPA should ensure that 

12 block two will drive additional emissions 

13 reductions. And all states should be expected to 

14 transition from hot coal, high-emitting coal and 

15 gas plants to cleaner resources over time.

16 EPA has specifically asked for comment on 

17 whether states can use the new natural gas plants 

18 to comply with emission targets, but you haven't 

19 factored these plans into the establishment of 

20 new targets. We believe there must be symmetry 

21 between the resources considered in setting the 

22 target or the standard and the resources allowed 

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1 for compliance. 

2 Just to repeat that, there needs to be 

3 symmetry between the resources considered in 

4 setting the target and the resources allowed for 

5 compliance. 

6 If not, some states with modest targets 

7 will achieve their goals simply as a result of 

8 implementing their existing plans to close old 

9 coal plants and replace them with new natural gas 

10 plants. I think it's essential that this 

11 symmetry be fixed.

12 Finally, I want to thank you for all of 

13 your hard work in developing the proposal and the 

14 leadership of this coal environment issue.

15 Thanks.

16 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

17 MR. BLOCZYNSKI: Jeffrey Bloczynski, J--

18 E-F-F-R-E-Y, B-L-O-C-Z-Y-N-S-K-I. 

19 Good morning. I'm Jeff Bloczynski. I am 

20 the Associate Vice-President of Economic Analysis 

21 at the American Coalition for Clean Coal 

22 Electricity.

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1 Our members include investor-owned 

2 utilities, rural electric cooperatives, coal 

3 producers, railroads and manufacturers that are 

4 involved in providing affordable and reliability 

5 electricity from coal. 

6 Thanks for the opportunity to speak today 

7 about EPA's proposal. 

8 Because of the many serious flaws we see, 

9 ACCCE urges EPA to withdraw the proposal. I'll 

10 highlight a few of these flaws briefly in the 

11 short time I have.

12 First, the Clean Air Act does not allow 

13 the EPA to regulate greenhouse gas emissions from 

14 existing coal-fired power plants under Section 

15 111(d) because coal-fired power plants are 

16 already regulated by the EPA under Section 112 of 

17 the Clean Air Act.

18 Recently, attorneys general from nine 

19 states filed an amicus brief to stop EPA's 

20 proposal for this very reason, saying that the 

21 proposal violates the literal terms of the Clean 

22 Air Act. 

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1 Even if the EPA believes it has the basic 

2 authority to regulate, Section 111(d) allows EPA 

3 to set emission standards based solely on 

4 emission reductions that can be achieved inside 

5 the fence; however, this proposal requires 

6 substantial reductions outside the fence.

7 Last year, before the proposal was 

8 issued, attorneys general from 17 states warned 

9 EPA that the agency does not have authority to 

10 require emission reductions outside the fence.

11 Second, the EPA's proposal will cause 

12 unacceptable economic impacts including higher 

13 energy prices. ACCCE sponsored extensive 

14 analysis of an NRDC proposal which served as a 

15 blueprint for EPA's proposal.

16 Our analysis projected, among other 

17 impacts, double-digit electricity price increases 

18 in most states and substantial increases in

19 natural gas prices nationwide.

20 Higher energy prices have a 

21 disproportionately greater impact on lower-income 

22 and middle-income families. Lower-income 

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1 families are especially vulnerable to higher 

2 energy costs because energy represents a larger 

3 portion of their budgets and reduces the amount 

4 of income they can spend on food, housing, 

5 healthcare and other necessities.

6 It is also worth noting that states with 

7 carbon constraints are already experiencing 

8 significantly higher electricity prices. Three 

9 months ago, electricity prices in California were 

10 17 percent higher than the national average. 

11 The New England states, part of the 

12 Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, had 52 

13 percent higher electricity prices than the 

14 national average.

15 Third, EPA has proposed to substitute its 

16 judgment for that of public utility commissions, 

17 utility companies, grid operators and consumers 

18 across the nation by presuming the appropriate 

19 amounts of electricity from coal, natural gas, 

20 nuclear, renewables, as well as presuming how 

21 much electricity consumers should use in each 

22 state. 

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1 In fact, Administrator McCarthy testified 

2 recently that EPA wants consumers to use less 

3 energy.

4 Although EPA claims states have 

5 flexibility to determine how to meet their goals, 

6 the method used for emission reductions leaves 

7 most states little alternative but to follow 

8 EPA's mandates.

9 Fourth, EPA bases its proposal on flawed 

10 information and assumptions for its four building 

11 blocks that are the basis for each state's 

12 target.

13 Finally, despite enormous economic 

14 impacts, the proposal will have no meaningful 

15 effect on global climate change because the 

16 proposal will reduce global greenhouse gas 

17 emissions by less than one percent.

18 If EPA's own scientific assessments are 

19 correct, the emission reductions from this 

20 proposal will result in a meaningless one percent 

21 reduction in atmospheric CO2 concentrations, an 

22 insignificant reduction in global average 

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1 temperature of two one-hundredths of a degree and 

2 a trivial reduction in sea level rise of one one3 hundredth of an inch, the thickness of three 

4 sheets of paper.

5 In conclusion, EPA's proposal has 

6 fundamental flaws that cannot be fixed by simply 

7 making changes to it. Instead, we urge EPA to 

8 withdraw the proposal.

9 Thank you, again, for the opportunity to 

10 speak.

11 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both.

12 So the next two panels are Reverend 

13 Lennox Yearwood and Samantha Ahdoot, and then the 

14 panel after that -- thank you -- is Kim Glass and 

15 Mark --

16 MR. MAGANA: Magana.

17 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much.

18 So if you could spell your name for the 

19 court reporter.

20 MS. AHDOOT. Thank you. My name is 

21 Samantha Ahdoot. That's A-h-d-o-o-t. And I'm a 

22 practicing pediatrician in Alexandria, Virginia, 

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1 a Fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics or 

2 AAP, and a member of the AAP's Council on 

3 Environmental Health.

4 I am speaking here today on behalf of the 

5 AAP, a non-profit professional organization of 

6 62,000 primary care pediatricians, pediatric 

7 medical sub-specialists and pediatric surgical 

8 specialists dedicated to the health, safety, and 

9 well-being of infants, children, adolescents, and 

10 young adults. 

11 I am here to express AAP's strong support 

12 of the EPA's effort to reduce carbon pollution 

13 from existing power plants and to urge the EPA to 

14 enact the strongest possible standards to protect 

15 the health and development of children.

16 Children are not little adults. They 

17 have unique physiologic, behavioral and 

18 developmental differences that amplify their 

19 exposure to environmental contaminants. Children 

20 breathe at a faster rate than adults, spend more 

21 time outside, and have proportionately greater 

22 skin surface area exposed to the environment. 

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1 All of this contributes to children's 

2 disproportionate exposure to environmental 

3 contaminants. 

4 Children of all ages spend more time on

5 the floor or ground than do adults and come into 

6 more contact with contaminants on these surfaces.

7 Additionally, as children grow and 

8 mature, their bodies can be particularly 

9 vulnerable to environmental exposures during 

10 specific developmental windows.

11 Children disproportionately bear the 

12 burden of negative health effects of climate 

13 change. According to the World Health 

14 Organization, over 80 percent of the current 

15 health burden from the changing climate appears 

16 in children less than five years old. 

17 Climate change has broad-reaching health 

18 impacts that are especially detrimental to 

19 vulnerable populations including children. They 

20 include weather disasters, increases and poleward 

21 migration of climate-sensitive infections, 

22 increases in allergic and asthmatic diseases, 

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1 food and water insecurity and increased heat2 related deaths. 

3 Power plants contribute approximately 

4 one-third of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions 

5 serving as a leading contributor to climate 

6 change. Reducing the carbon emissions of 

7 existing fossil fuel-fired power plants 

8 represents a major step forward towards 

9 addressing a key component of climate change in 

10 the U.S. and stemming the tide of climate change 

11 and the myriad attendant negative health impacts.

12 In the near term, there are also 

13 extremely positive co-benefits to reducing carbon 

14 pollution that have an immediate impact on child 

15 health, such as reducing emission of other 

16 pollutants and the resulting creation of harmful 

17 ozone. 

18 When fully implemented by 2030, EPA's 

19 proposal will result in 6,600 fewer premature 

20 deaths, 150,000 fewer child asthma attacks, 

21 180,000 fewer missed school days and 3,700 fewer 

22 cases of child bronchitis.

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1 The AAP applauds the EPA for considering 

2 the unique vulnerabilities of children in its 

3 development of this proposed rule. 

4 The AAP urges the EPA to adopt the 

5 strongest possible carbon pollution standards for 

6 existing power plants to ensure the rule provides 

7 the optimal possible child health benefit.

8 Thank you for your time and for allowing 

9 the AAP to provide comments on this critically 

10 important rule.

11 Thank you.

12 MS. CRAIG: Thank you. 

13 REVEREND YEARWOOD: Good morning. My 

14 name is Reverend Lennox Yearwood. That's R-E-V. 

15 L-E-N-N-O-X, Y-E-A-R-W-O-O-D. I am the President 

16 of the Hip-Hop Caucus. I'm from the great State 

17 of Louisiana and a former U.S. Air Force Officer.

18 This past spring, the Hip-Hop Caucus 

19 organized the Act on Climate Campus tour that 

20 visited historically black colleges and 

21 universities and African-American neighborhoods 

22 around the country.

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1 Armed with the knowledge of the 

2 disproportionate life-threatening impacts of 

3 carbon pollution on our communities, African4 American communities have joined the call for 

5 climate action.

6 That is why young people of color in 

7 urban communities are leading and acting to curb 

8 the impacts of climate change that our 

9 communities are suffering from now. 

10 From people, particularly poor African11 Americans drowning in the aftermath of Hurricane 

12 Katrina to our elderly passing away in the 

13 extreme heatwave in Chicago over the recent 

14 summers to the homes and small business destroyed 

15 in our communities in the wake of Superstorm 

16 Sandy, the devastation and destruction of 

17 increasingly extreme weather caused by global 

18 warming is getting worse and more dangerous 

19 before our eyes.

20 Currently, the biggest source of carbon 

21 pollution in the U.S. are power plants. They do 

22 not have any limits on the amount of carbon 

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1 pollution they generate. These unregulated power 

2 plants directly affect the health of African3 Americans.

4 The African-American community suffers 

5 disproportionately from higher rates of asthma 

6 and other respiratory and heart-related diseases, 

7 as well as cancer.

8 We live closer to sources of carbon 

9 pollution like power plants, which is a major 

10 contributor to our higher rates of lung and heart 

11 disease and cancer, which is why we support the 

12 proposed standards from EPA, because the proposed 

13 standards from EPA would decrease pollution that 

14 is causing illness and death in our 

15 neighborhoods.

16 There is no doubt that the cost of life, 

17 the cost of health, and the economic cost of 

18 natural disasters and increasingly expensive 

19 energy and food, all of which disproportionately 

20 impact communities of color, is making it 

21 imperative for us to act on climate, short-term 

22 and long-term. 

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1 These carbon pollution standards are good 

2 for African-American communities and it's good 

3 for America. They will create jobs, save money 

4 and protect public health. 

5 The tales of energy rate increases by 

6 those who oppose these standards are widely 

7 speculative. More importantly, they only tell 

8 one part of the story because they do not account 

9 for the cost to communities of color of not 

10 implementing these standards. 

11 There is great economic cost of inaction. 

12 We are already paying more for air conditioning 

13 in a warming world; we are already paying more 

14 for water and food produced in times of drought; 

15 and we are paying more for the cost of rebuilding 

16 after increasingly violent natural disasters. 

17 Curbing climate change through these power plant 

18 standards will also curb these cost-of-living 

19 increases that our communities are ultimately 

20 experiencing. 

21 Further, the pain that our communities 

22 will suffer, job losses if the proposed standards 

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1 are approved do not account for the economic 

2 benefit from the resultant job creation and green 

3 innovation. 

4 Every dollar put into clean energy 

5 creates three times as many jobs as putting that 

6 same dollar into fossil fuels. 

7 This is a moment for great leadership. 

8 This is a moment for our country to stand up. 

9 This is our moment. This is our clean energy 

10 moment for our country.

11 I know that our community will lead the 

12 fight and use our voices and talents in our great 

13 continuous struggle in this country for freedom, 

14 for civil rights and for actions for economic 

15 opportunity and livable communities. 

16 I conclude with this: In the 20th 

17 century, many of those who fought for equality. 

18 But in the 21st century, we are now fighting for 

19 existence. Let us not miss this moment to fight 

20 for future generations.

21 Thank you.

22 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both.

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1 And a reminder, if you-all want to leave 

2 your prepared statements with the registration 

3 desk, we would appreciate that.

4 Okay, so I think our next panel was Kim 

5 Glas and Mark --

6 MR. MAGANA: Magana.

7 MS. CRAIG: -- Magana, okay. I just 

8 needed –- there’s no...

9 MR. MAGANA: No tilden on it?

10 MS. CRAIG: No, there's not. That's why 

11 I was so confused.

12 Thank you both. And if you could start 

13 by spelling your name for the court reporter.

14 MR. MAGANA: I'm Mark Magana, M-A-R-K, 

15 M-A-G-A-N-A. 

16 Good morning. My name is Mark Magana and 

17 I'm the President of GreenLatinos, a national 

18 non-profit organization that convenes a coalition 

19 of Latino environmental and conservation leaders 

20 from across the country.

21 I'm also a board member of the League of 

22 Conservation Voters and of Children's 

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1 Environmental Health Network.

2 As a member of the Latino community, I 

3 know that setting carbon limits is not just for 

4 the sake of future generations, but will help 

5 protect Latinos and other vulnerable groups 

6 today.

7 EPA's Clean Power Plan will protect our 

8 public health immediately and in the future. The 

9 proposed carbon pollution limits for existing 

10 power plants are long overdue.

11 There are standards for arsenic, mercury 

12 and lead, along with smog- and soot-forming 

13 emissions from power plants, and there should be 

14 standards for carbon pollution, as well.

15 Regrettably, Latino communities are 

16 shouldering an unequal share of poverty, asthma 

17 and other dangers. For example, dirty power 

18 plants are increasingly likely to be located near 

19 Latino neighborhoods filling the air and water 

20 with high levels of mercury and other 

21 intoxicants. 

22 In fact, the Centers for Disease Control 

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1 found that nearly half of Latinos live in 

2 counties that are in frequent violation of 

3 ground-level ozone standards.

4 The EPA must protect these communities 

5 from carbon pollution. Scientists warned that 

6 the buildup of carbon pollution will create 

7 warmer temperatures which will increase the risk 

8 of an unhealthy ozone level. 

9 An increase in the ozone pollution, a 

10 well-known trigger asthma attacks, will lead to 

11 deadly results for Latinos. Asthma rates in 

12 America have doubled in the past 30 years, and 

13 Latinos are 30 percent more likely to visit the 

14 hospitals for asthma and 40 percent more likely 

15 to die from asthma, as compared to non-Latino 

16 whites.

17 The health benefits of the Clean Power 

18 Plan are significant. By 2030, the standard will 

19 save up to 6,600 lives and prevent 150,000 asthma 

20 attacks each year because cleaning up carbon 

21 pollution will reduce other pollutants from power 

22 plants. These pollutants cause asthma attacks, 

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1 heart attacks, lung cancer, developmental harm 

2 and premature death.

3 Polling we conducted for the League of 

4 Conservation Voters following release of the 

5 Clean Power Plan found that the public supports 

6 the plan by a margin of 65 to 28. In fact, 

7 support has seen 60 percent in every region of 

8 the country and by voters in all age and income 

9 brackets with younger voters and middle- and 

10 lower-income households especially support it. 

11 And the recent National Climate 

12 Assessment highlights other critical health 

13 impacts from carbon pollution and climate change 

14 that are already being felt today across the 

15 nation and are likely to pose even greater 

16 threats in the future, including heatwaves, 

17 wildfires, extreme changes in weather, such as 

18 drought and excessive precipitation, flooding, 

19 dust storms and the spread of infectious 

20 diseases.

21 All of these events have very serious 

22 public health consequences for thousands of 

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1 Americans including people with lung disease, 

2 such as asthma, chronic arthritis, emphysema and 

3 children whose airways are still developing.

4 People who are exercising outdoors, seniors and 

5 low-income communities and all Latino communities 

6 are threatened by this.

7 Thank you for your time.

8 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

9 MS. GLAS: Good morning. My name is 

10 Kimberly Glas, G-L-A-S. 

11 I am the Executive Director of the 

12 BlueGreen Alliance, and I thank you for the 

13 opportunity to testify about the EPA's proposed 

14 rule to limit carbon pollution from existing 

15 power plants.

16 Just to give you some background, the 

17 BlueGreen Alliance is a national partnership of 

18 both our largest labor unions, as well as our 

19 most influential environmental organizations.

20 We represent 16 million members and supporters 

21 working to turn today's environmental challenges 

22 into job-creating and economic opportunities.

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1 The BlueGreen Alliance was founded in 

2 2006 with the recognition that it can no longer 

3 be forced to choose between good jobs and a clean 

4 environment and that, now, we can and must have 

5 both.

6 It is our responsibility to ensure that 

7 these policies create the conditions for a 

8 sustainable economy and environment in order to 

9 enrich the lives of individuals, families and 

10 communities.

11 We support EPA's authority to limit 

12 carbon pollution from power plants. We are 

13 pleased that this proposed rule permits each 

14 state to craft a compliance plan that is tailored 

15 to the specifics of its local and regional 

16 economy that will protect existing jobs while 

17 reducing emissions and that can create 

18 opportunities to grow new jobs, encourage 

19 investment and jumpstart new technologies.

20 This proposal can be a significant step 

21 forward if we all engage in developing and 

22 implementing it. There are three points I'd like 

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1 to emphasize: first, the proposed rule sets 

2 reasonable targets for reducing carbon pollution 

3 that the final rule should retain; second, the 

4 proposal's flexible compliance approach is 

5 essential to its success; and third -- very 

6 important -- community and workforce stability 

7 and development should be integral elements of 

8 any carbon reduction strategy.

9 I will just say a few words on each 

10 point. The reduction targets are reasonable. 

11 Not only were these targets individually designed 

12 for each state, but the EPA provided a common 

13 sense, measured timetable for their achievement.

14 Each state has ten years to see if its plan in 

15 action and make any needed adjustments before 

16 it's is responsible for meeting its final 

17 reduction goal.

18 Second, the proposal offers maximum 

19 flexibility for compliance. Each state can 

20 determine for itself which carbon reduction 

21 mechanisms make the most sense for its citizens, 

22 its workers and its economy. 

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1 For example, a state with multiple coal 

2 plants can encourage improvements in both supply 

3 and demand. Technological changes can increase 

4 the supply of power produced by each ton of coal. 

5 According to the American Council for Energy 

6 Efficient Economy, industrial end-use energy 

7 efficiency investments could create 611,000 full8 time jobs and increase USGDP by $17.2 billion by 

9 2030. A state whose power comes principally from 

10 gas plants may institute diversification 

11 incentives. In addition, a state can authorize 

12 carbon capture and storage mechanisms to reduce 

13 emissions from existing coal plants. 

14 The Department of Energy is helping to 

15 fund construction of the largest carbon capture 

16 project in the world, the Petra Nova Project in 

17 Texas, which is projected to capture 90 percent 

18 of the carbon dioxide emissions from one of the 

19 plant's generators. 

20 The BlueGreen Alliance urges the EPA to 

21 include in its final rule language encouraging 

22 states to use carbon capture mechanisms as a 

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1 compliance tool.

2 Finally, I'd like to address community 

3 and economic stability and development. 

4 Regardless of any action to address climate 

5 change, the U.S. is in the midst of an energy 

6 transition that, in some cases, can lead to job 

7 loss. While we believe that states can craft 

8 comprehensive implementation plans that result in 

9 net job creation across the country, we must be 

10 prepared to provide direct support to workers and 

11 communities, extending to ancillary and support 

12 sectors, as well as to the utility sector, if and 

13 when a power plant shuts down. 

14 A proper transition means direct support 

15 for workers by providing wages, benefits, 

16 training, education and recognition of our basic 

17 workers' rights. It also means providing a 

18 community with resources to redevelop its 

19 economy.

20 We believe that if well-crafted, the 

21 Clean Power Plan has the potential to create and 

22 sustain quality, family-sustaining jobs across 

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1 this country. This potential can be realized by 

2 engagement with stakeholders to develop a plan 

3 that adequately addresses funding programs to 

4 meet the needs of workers and their industries.

5 We at BlueGreen Alliance applaud the EPA 

6 for moving forward and addressing the threat of 

7 climate change.

8 Thank you for this opportunity.

9 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both.

10 So our next panel is Danny Lutz and John 

11 Christensen.

12 MR. LUTZ: I'm Danny Lutz and I'm from

13 Charles Town, West Virginia.

14 MS. CRAIG: And you're going to spell 

15 your name for the court reporter, please.

16 MR. LUTZ: I'll spell it phonetically, 

17 lima, uniform, tango, zulu.

18 MS. CRAIG: Perfect. Thank you.

19 MR. LUTZ: And I'm from Charles Town, 

20 West Virginia and the commercial is that I am a 

21 candidate for the House of Delegates of West 

22 Virginia. And I'm running on the Mountain Party, 

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1 affiliated with the U.S. Green Party ticket. And 

2 I'm the first of our party to receive the 

3 endorsement of the United Mine Workers even 

4 though I oppose mountaintop removal.

5 And, parenthetically, yesterday I asked 

6 our attorney general in a public conference if he 

7 would, and I quote, "work with us to implement 

8 these carbon regulations that we might have a 

9 win-win situation for West Virginia and create 

10 jobs." Mr. Morrisey refused. 

11 So with those parenthetical remarks, I 

12 thank the agency for this opportunity to speak, 

13 and I wish to seek the leave of the panel to 

14 extend my remarks which are considerable.

15 My comments will be directed along these 

16 lines --

17 MS. CRAIG: Sir, we're going to keep each 

18 speaker to five minutes, and you can submit your 

19 comments afterwards.

20 MR. LUTZ: And that's why I said leave to 

21 extend our remarks. Believe it not, just a page 

22 and a half.

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1 MS. CRAIG: Perfect. Thank you.

2 MR. LUTZ: The thrust of my remarks are 

3 how West Virginia can lead the nation to a 

4 smaller carbon footprint while benefitting from 

5 such practices.

6 I speak about coal, very important in our 

7 state, addressing coal extraction, the uses of 

8 its byproducts and funding the compliance with 

9 the carbon regulations.

10 Coal must be directed to its highest, 

11 best and most efficient uses. Burning it can 

12 generate steam and heat, do not fit these three 

13 criteria.

14 We must eliminate surface extraction of 

15 coal called "mountain top removal." And we must 

16 employ subsurface extraction of coal while 

17 safeguarding the well-being of the miners and 

18 containing the pollutants that inevitably result 

19 from such mining activities.

20 We must prepare the coal at extraction 

21 sites to be usable by its ultimate end users and 

22 then ship directly there and all of this work can 

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1 already be done by members of the United Mine 

2 Workers International.

3 Coal presents challenges. Of that, there 

4 is no doubt. Its byproducts include carbon 

5 dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrogen and sulphur 

6 compounds and heavy metals and salts, among 

7 others.

8 All of these are valuable commodities 

9 that have fantastic industrial applications if 

10 captured and directed. These products should be 

11 oriented to their highest and best uses, also.

12 In studies that I'm going to append to 

13 these remarks and confirmed by the Pennsylvania 

14 State University Department of Soil Sciences, an 

15 of acre of farmland sequesters about 120,000 

16 pounds. That is 60 tons of carbon per acre.

17 There are, approximately, three billion 

18 acres of farmland under cultivation in America, 

19 so the simple arithmetic shows that annually the 

20 potential is to sequester 180 billion tons of 

21 carbon in farmland alone. 

22 And then if we were to employ interstate 

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1 highway medians and other such lands, we could 

2 sequester even more and make a huge dent in our 

3 carbon footprint.

4 Carbon in crops harvested does not enter 

5 the atmosphere. Converting carbon byproducts to 

6 agricultural uses has its multiple benefits, and 

7 sequestration is the first one; the second is 

8 from cropping; the third is jobs from creating 

9 converting carbon to agricultural uses; the 

10 fourth, creating from carbon dioxide and sodium 

11 bicarbonate and calcium carbonate, otherwise 

12 known as lime, to buffer streams with low pH from 

13 acid mine runoff, fish and such.

14 Fisheries and recreational users would 

15 benefit by eliminating the acids from these 

16 waters, and ultimately we could see a reduction 

17 -- or, that is, a raising of the pH of our ocean 

18 levels.

19 Parenthetically, the Allegheny Highlands 

20 of West Virginia are the birthplace of some of 

21 the water sources for West Virginia, 12 other 

22 states and our own District of Columbia. 

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1 Funding is a problem, and I realize it is 

2 not the purview of the Environmental Protection 

3 Agency; however, the Congress of the United 

4 States somehow, some way must enact a transfer 

5 fee upon exchange and electronically-traded 

6 financial instruments of one-half of one percent 

7 of the traded value, 20 percent of which would be 

8 earmarked to pay for the equivalent of a 

9 Manhattan project to achieve sustainable energy 

10 self-sufficiency for America within five years. 

11 It can be done.

12 The value of these instruments exceeds 

13 one quadrillion dollars annually now. Now, for 

14 those of you not versed in arithmetic, that's a 

15 one followed by 15 zeros. And just figure what 

16 one-half of one percent is.

17 Finally, these technologies marketed and 

18 shared with the rest of the world and vice-versa 

19 will result in a more livable world for all of 

20 us.

21 Thank you so much for your time.

22 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

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1 MR. CHRISTENSON: Good morning. My name 

2 is John Christensen, C-H-R-I-S-T-E-N-S-E-N.

3 Good morning. My name is John 

4 Christensen. I am a long-time resident and 

5 taxpayer of the great State of West Virginia, and 

6 I am living proof that a retired shifts engineer 

7 of 30 years can transition into a renewable 

8 energy job utilizing the same principles to keep 

9 the lights on while employing a different power 

10 source, namely, the sun.

11 I work for a small solar company that 

12 designs, procures and installs solar energy 

13 systems for our neighbors, businesses and 

14 government buildings in eight states and the 

15 District of Columbia.

16 We want to grow the industry at a steady 

17 pace, but we want to branch out into business 

18 heretofore thought to be out of our comfort zone. 

19 Our work is a direct result of science, 

20 technology, engineering and math curriculum that 

21 has been emphasized in our high schools lately.

22 We hire local college grads, teach them 

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1 how to do solar installations, permitting, 

2 customer assurance, customer care, 

3 troubleshooting and problem-solving with a team 

4 spirit that gives them the sense of how to 

5 succeed in business and be part of the growing 

6 trend in America today.

7 We started with three people only six 

8 years ago and, now, we have grown to 40 sometime 

9 last year when we were particularly busy.

10 We have been honored to win several 

11 awards in business in this short time and have 

12 trained several former employees to be able to 

13 start their own businesses in direct competition 

14 with us. And we are proud that we trained them 

15 and got them started.

16 There is plenty of work to go around in 

17 order to ramp up our industry to become the 

18 guiding force for future energy production in 

19 America. According to the National Renewable 

20 Energy Laboratory only one-quarter of residential 

21 and commercial rooftops in America are suitable 

22 for solar. That creates a big opportunity for 

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1 crowd solar to community solar, two models that 

2 are gaining attraction in the country.

3 Clean Energy Collective, a Colorado-based 

4 community solar developer, suggests that shared 

5 solar could more than triple customer access to 

6 PV in the U.S., but with only 50 megawatts of 

7 community and crowd-source solar installed, it 

8 will take a lot of regulatory and policy change 

9 to unlock that market potential.

10 Think of all the empty rooftops on 

11 buildings, warehouses, stadiums, big-box stores 

12 and the potential for growth is literally 

13 overwhelming.

14 We are in the midst of something special 

15 here. I'm glad that I have lived during this 

16 time of solar energy expansion like no other time 

17 in the 60-year history of solar energy in 

18 America.

19 We invented it, we've researched and 

20 developed it, we lowered the price through 

21 technological advances and economies of scale and

22 we almost gave it all away during the Bush-Cheney 

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1 Administration. 

2 The solar industry has thrived during 

3 this Administration. When it came time for 

4 government help to see what government can do 

5 when it puts its collective mind to it, the DoE 

6 has given competitive grants that have helped to 

7 pave the way for lower cost, faster and safer 

8 installations. The USDA has also provided much 

9 needed grants to small business and agriculture 

10 in hard-pressed regions. And the 30 percent tax 

11 credit uncapped has given the industry and its 

12 customers a much needed shot in the arm to 

13 compete with traditional energy sources.

14 The President, through the Federal Trade 

15 Commission, has stopped illegal dumping of 

16 Chinese panels on our domestic markets. This is 

17 a government that is doing its job.

18 We decided early on to use American-made 

19 modules, inverters and hardware when we install 

20 our systems and we bid our jobs accordingly.

21 We are proud to install Solar World panels and 

22 we're proud to promote and emphasize ownership to 

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1 our customers.

2 When Americans invest in their own best 

3 interest, like buying a home, why not include a 

4 sticker price for how much the home costs to 

5 operate? If a home is energy-efficient and 

6 produces its own power on the roof, it stands to 

7 reason that it's more valuable than the home next 

8 door which doesn't do any of these things.

9 Higher value means higher taxes to support the 

10 local economy.

11 My personal story is a bit unusual, but 

12 not for us. Our company decided early on that 

13 electric cars were going to be a big hit, and 

14 powered by the sun made it even better.

15 I can produce most of my residential 

16 power needs, and I drive an electric vehicle 

17 which I charge from my rooftop panels. My 

18 savings is noticeable, about $140 a month on 

19 electricity and $2,000 a year on not buying 

20 gasoline. What's not to like?

21 MS. CRAIG: Mr. Christensen, can you --

22 MR. CHRISTENSEN: Yeah, I'll wrap it up. 

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1 I'll wrap it up.

2 To deny the existence of climate change 

3 in the face of overwhelmingly convincing facts is 

4 not in the best interest of humanity. The planet 

5 will survive. We humans may not. 

6 I stand in support of the new carbon 

7 rules issued by our Environmental Protection 

8 Agency in Washington, D.C. Unlike the 

9 politicians from my state that have agreed with 

10 the coal industry war on coal rhetoric, many 

11 thousands of West Virginia citizens are 

12 disappointed and embarrassed by the claims of our 

13 electric leaders in support of their benefactors 

14 through the legacy of lucrative campaign 

15 contributions. They do what they are told in 

16 order to continue to receive largess of these 

17 industries. On the ships, we used to call this 

18 blood money.

19 Most folks I talk to today are disgusted 

20 with the lack of progress on climate change 

21 legislation.

22 MS. CRAIG: We need to --

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1 MR. CHRISTENSEN: I've got one more 

2 sentence.

3 MS. CRAIG: Okay

4 MR. CHRISTENSEN: The future is brighter 

5 thanks to your new rules. 

6 Let the people breathe cleaner air, drink 

7 fresh, pure water and watch our economy thrive 

8 and become healthier once again. Let the deniers 

9 be damned.

10 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both. 

11 And just a reminder to all panelists, if 

12 you want to leave your prepared remarks at the 

13 registration desk, we would appreciate that.

14 Thank you so much. 

15 We have the next panel and that's Dick 

16 Wilson and Martha Ehlman. And if you could both 

17 come up, that would be great. 

18 Is Martha here? If not, if you could 

19 just spell your name for the court reporter 

20 before you get started --

21 MR. WILSON: Will do.

22 MS. CRAIG: -- that will be great. Thank 

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1 you.

2 MR. WILSON: Dick Wilson, D-I-C-K, 

3 W-I-L-S-O-N.

4 Good morning. My name is Dick Wilson. 

5 I'm an international representative with the 

6 International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 

7 and a member of Local Union 753 in Springfield, 

8 Missouri.

9 On behalf of the, approximately, 750,000 

10 active members and retirees of the IBEW, I thank 

11 you for the opportunity to testify.

12 For the following reasons, the IBEW 

13 opposes the Clean Power Plan as proposed: 

14 EPA reports within six years the Clean 

15 Power Plan will lead to the closure of 41 to 49 

16 gigawatts of coal-fired generator capacity by 

17 2020. According to the government's own figures, 

18 this will result in the loss of 52,000 permanent 

19 direct jobs in the utility, rail and coal mining 

20 sectors.

21 In addition, closing this much coal 

22 generation will cost an additional 100,000 

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1 indirect jobs. That equals 152,000 good-paying, 

2 middle-class jobs and jobs that are critical to 

3 our nation's economic recovery.

4 However, coming from the "Show Me" state, 

5 I believe the EPA's numbers must be viewed with 

6 some suspicion. During the Mercury and Air Toxic 

7 standards rule-making process, the EPA claimed 

8 MATS would close only 4.7 gigawatts of coal 

9 generation. 

10 The IBEW and others told EPA their 

11 numbers were off-base and out of touch and that 

12 MATS would close 56 gigawatts of coal. As it 

13 turned out, we were the ones that were correct. 

14 Experts now confirm that 56 gigawatts of coal 

15 generation will be lost by 2016.

16 Taken together, MATS and the Clean Air 

17 Plan will close approximately 40 percent of 

18 today's coal fleet. Gone with those plants will 

19 be, approximately, 400,000 American jobs at a 

20 time when our nation continues to recover from 

21 the worst recession since the Great Depression.

22 Unfortunately, given the IBEW's experience with 

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1 MATS, these numbers could be far worse. 

2 As a former business manager, I've seen 

3 first-hand the jobs that were created by coal4 fired power plants and the importance they play 

5 in small towns and communities across the 

6 country.

7 In my hometown of Springfield, Missouri, 

8 having our own base load power supply, which is 

9 owned by the municipal utility, has been crucial 

10 to helping southwest Missouri weather the Great 

11 Recession far better than most communities of its 

12 size.

13 According to one of the proposed plans 

14 put forth by the EPA with the Clean Power Plan, 

15 the City of Springfield, Missouri, and its 

16 municipal utility, City Utilities of Springfield, 

17 will lose close to one-third of its base load 

18 generation. This would force the utility and its 

19 rate payers to buy power from another source 

20 outside of the community and a source that is in 

21 the business of making a profit, not providing 

22 reliable and economical electricity to the rate 

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1 payers and citizens of the community.

2 We ask that the EPA take a common sense 

3 approach through the rule-making process. We ask 

4 that EPA not sacrifice our nation's economy and 

5 electric reliability by developing a rule that 

6 does not take into account current commercially7 proven and economically-viable technology to 

8 reduce CO2 such as an American Electrical Power 

9 Turk plant in Fulton, Arkansas. 

10 Along with the steps to reduce CO2 

11 emissions that have already been taken in states 

12 due to market-driven conditions such as increased 

13 natural gas use, retirements of older coal plants 

14 and/or the construction of new nuclear 

15 generation, the IBEW recommends a delay in the 

16 implementation of a Clean Power Plan until a 

17 common sense approach can be developed to reduce 

18 CO2, an approach that will give sites and 

19 utilities adequate time to develop and implement 

20 compliance strategies.

21 And, in closing, we understand that it's 

22 the EPA's responsibility to determine 

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1 environmental policy and our nation's role in 

2 addressing climate change. However, we do not 

3 believe that it is the EPA's role to set energy 

4 or economic policy as this rule clearly does.

5 We believe that the only way to have a 

6 meaningful impact in climate change would be to 

7 require the full cooperation of nations like 

8 China and India. 

9 Without their participation and 

10 commitment, this rule will accomplish no 

11 measurable results in the global perspective and 

12 will only serve to harm our nation's economic and 

13 electric reliability.

14 Thank you.

15 MS. CRAIG: Thank you. 

16 So did Martha Elman join us?

17 We have Regina Hendrix and David Belote.

18 MS. HENDRIX: I'm Regina.

19 MS. CRAIG: Okay.

20 MR. BELOTE: And I'm David.

21 MS. CRAIG: Okay. And if you could join 

22 us at the table, that would be great.

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1 And if you would, start by spelling your 

2 name for the court reporter. So, Regina, would 

3 you like to go first?

4 MS. HENDRIX: Okay. My name is Regina 

5 Hendrix.

6 MS. CRAIG: And you're going to need to 

7 use the mic so the court reporter can hear you, 

8 as well as everyone else.

9 MS. HENDRIX: Okay.

10 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

11 MS. HENDRIX: My name is Regina Hendrix, 

12 R-E-G-I-N-A, Hendrix, H-E-N-D-R-I-X, and good 

13 morning.

14 I was born in the Kanawha Valley in 

15 Southern West Virginia into a family of eight. 

16 Six of my family members have had cancer. 

17 Through the years, numerous friends and relatives 

18 have suffered with cancer, asthma and other 

19 maladies brought on by the poisoned water and air 

20 in the coal fields.

21 I became so concerned about the pollution 

22 from chemicals and the extractive industries that 

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1 I left the Charles Town area in 2009, and I came 

2 to live in the eastern panhandle of West 

3 Virginia.

4 As a West Virginian living in the 

5 panhandle, I'm free of the polluted air and 

6 water; however, I'm not free from paying the 

7 price of cleanup for our extractive industries 

8 which are being allowed to externalize the costs 

9 of mining.

10 The cost of mining is passed on to 

11 taxpayers because there is an insufficient bond 

12 put up by the companies at permit time. The 

13 companies then spin off their subsidiaries into 

14 separate entities.

15 When the coal is gone, the company is 

16 bankrupt. They forfeit the bond and leave a 

17 large cleanup bill for the taxpayer. Many of 

18 these sites will belch out selenium, mercury and 

19 all forms of acid drainage in perpetuity.

20 In the 1940s West Virginia, there were 

21 130,000 coal mining jobs. Today, there are 

22 19,000 mining jobs. When I left Southern West 

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1 Virginia in the 1950s, there were 83,000 people 

2 living in Charles Town. When I returned in the 

3 1990s, there were just over 50,000 people. 

4 The tonnage of coal being removed was way 

5 up, but people were leaving the area and the 

6 economy was in shambles.

7 The extractive industries have taken a 

8 big toll on my home state. Mountaintop removal 

9 mining has not only sickened our citizens, but it 

10 has cost us jobs because the coal is removed with 

11 heavy machinery operated by a few surface 

12 workers. 

13 To destroy the mountains and poison the 

14 water desecrates creation. Since God made all of 

15 creation good, raping the land and poisoning the 

16 water becomes a direct assault on the God-given 

17 goodness of creation. It becomes our own special 

18 form of blasphemy.

19 Recently, the water supply for 300,000 

20 people in Southern West Virginia was poisoned by 

21 the coal cleaning compound MCMH. You might ask 

22 why 300,000 people were all on the same water 

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1 system. The answer is because the wells in the 

2 southern counties have been poisoned. The 

3 taxpayer paid the price to furnish water to the 

4 southern counties and then we poisoned these same 

5 citizens with our city water.

6 This EPA rule means we finally do 

7 something serious to control greenhouse gases. 

8 It will save thousands of lives and is justified 

9 by the health benefits alone.

10 We can help bring prosperity back to West 

11 Virginia with the jobs created by our investment 

12 in energy efficiency and renewables.

13 Thank you.

14 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

15 MR. BELOTE: My name is David Belote, B, 

16 as in boy, E-L-O-T-E, and I'm speaking very much 

17 to argue in favor of the EPA rule to send a 

18 strong signal.

19 I'm a retired Air Force colonel. I

20 graduated both the School of Advanced Airpowers 

21 Studies and National War College and a former 

22 Commander of Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas. 

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1 I had the great good fortune as the 

2 commander of Nellis to inherit the -- what was 

3 then the largest photovoltaic array in the 

4 continent and have on the Air Force base almost 

5 30 percent of the annual electricity produced by 

6 a behind-the-fence photovoltaic array. So I saw, 

7 both academically and in person, how important 

8 economically and as a matter of extra security 

9 renewable energy is. 

10 You will see that back in about 2005 with 

11 the publication of a letter from Marine General 

12 Zilmer sent back from Afghanistan, that the 

13 military started a major culture change 

14 recognizing that climate security is a national 

15 security imperative.

16 And in my hometown of Virginia Beach, 

17 Virginia, the Hampton Roads area, about three 

18 hours south of here, Norfolk Naval Base and 

19 Langley Air Force Base, in incredibly low-lying 

20 areas that involve the Chesapeake Bay and the 

21 mouth of James River, are probably going to be 

22 under water sometime between 2050 and 2070.

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1 Now, the United States Department of 

2 Defense has a long history in sending market 

3 signals and doing incredible innovation. The 

4 reason that we have jet engines, radar, GPS, the 

5 integrated circuit chip and the Internet is 

6 primarily the United States Department of Defense 

7 pushing forth an innovation and then bright 

8 innovators, entrepreneurs, capitalists in America 

9 taking that and running with it. This is 

10 precisely what the EPA's rule has the chance of 

11 doing, and that's exactly what the military 

12 needs.

13 After retiring from the military, I spent 

14 two years overseeing renewable energy policy laws 

15 in the Pentagon, and then I spent two years 

16 developing wind and solar projects for behind17 the-fence energy sharing for the military. And 

18 because there is not yet a clear market signal, 

19 nor is there Congressional appropriations 

20 available, the behind-the-fence energy security 

21 for the military is basically flat.

22 It has been our experience that if you 

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1 use something like the EPA goal with the 

2 flexibility to allow all states to produce their 

3 own plans on how to reach those 30-percent 

4 reductions by 2030, that bright innovators are 

5 going to jump out there and do something. And 

6 right now, if you take a look at all of the 

7 official studies of the Department of Defense, 

8 that are trying to figure out how to reverse the 

9 effects of climate change and how to stop 

10 spending American lives protecting fossil fuels 

11 and their supply lines.

12 So in as strong as possible terms, I ask 

13 you to approve this rule and send a very strong, 

14 ardent signal and then let American capitalists 

15 figure out how to sell their systems internally, 

16 to the Chinese, to the Indians, to the entire 

17 world.

18 Thanks for your time.

19 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much.

20 Okay. So our next panel is Megan 

21 Severson and Martha Ehlman. And then the panel 

22 after, which will be in waiting, is Sasha 

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1 Tenenbaum and Jonathan Jacoby.

2 So, Megan Severson, if you want to start, 

3 and you could start by spelling your name for the 

4 court reporter.

5 MS. SEVERSON: Sure. It's 

6 S-E-V-E-R-S-O-N, Severson.

7 So my name is Megan Severson, and I'm the 

8 State Advocate for Wisconsin Environment. In 

9 Wisconsin, global warming just isn't a distant 

10 threat. It's certainly here. Now, in the 

11 present, we've already seen severe droughts, 

12 extreme storms and flooding throughout the state.

13 I grew up on a farm in the western part 

14 of the state about ten miles from the Mississippi 

15 River. It's surrounded by bluffs and river 

16 valleys, and the farm has been in my dad's side 

17 of the family since the 1860s.

18 In 2012, in the summer, our region 

19 experienced a record-breaking drought that killed 

20 off a lot of our crops and throughout Wisconsin. 

21 The following spring, we experienced record 

22 flooding which delayed planting season by a few 

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1 weeks.

2 I would really like to be able to say 

3 that my kids and grandkids will be able to 

4 experience the same farm and quality of life that 

5 I did with my sisters as a kid, but I am 

6 increasingly nervous that that's not going to be 

7 a possibility.

8 You know, scientists are very clear that 

9 unless we act now to reduce the pollution fueling 

10 global warming, most importantly the carbon 

11 dioxide, that things really are just going to get 

12 much worse for our children and we won't be able 

13 to turn back. 

14 So that is why Wisconsin Environment 

15 believes that the Clean Power Plan is a vital 

16 step, and we support the finalization of the 

17 strongest possible plan to cut carbon pollution.

18 You know, scientists are warning that if 

19 we allow the planet to warm above two degrees 

20 Celsius, the likelihood greatly increases that we 

21 will not be able to prevent the worst impacts of 

22 global warming. That requires cutting carbon 

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1 pollution in half by 2050. And wealthy countries 

2 need to cut carbon emissions much more deeply 

3 than emerging nations like China and India.

4 To do its part and leverage the 

5 leadership, we really need to compel other 

6 countries to act, and so that's why the United 

7 States must reduce its global warming pollution 

8 at least 80 percent by 2050.

9 Power plants are the largest single 

10 source of U.S. carbon pollution, and while we 

11 must move quickly to limit carbon from all 

12 sources, the power plants – you know, this is 

13 really our best opportunity in the near term to 

14 achieve dramatic reductions in carbon.

15 Our recent report, America's Dirtiest 

16 Power Plants, found that the 50 dirtiest power 

17 plants emit more carbon each year than all but 

18 five other countries. Fortunately, the solutions 

19 to global warming really are at our fingertips 

20 and many of them in Wisconsin. We have the 

21 technology to dramatically reduce emissions of 

22 carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases by 

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1 using energy more efficiently and generating 

2 energy that we do use from, you know, truly clean 

3 sources, such as the wind and the sun.

4 Wisconsin's power plants contribute 

5 43 percent of our state's carbon pollution, and 

6 the Clean Power Plan would actually clean up our 

7 power plants by at least 13 percent.

8 Wisconsin Environment applauds the EPA 

9 for responding to the urgent need to protect 

10 public health and our children's future by 

11 reigning in unlimited carbon pollution. But 

12 certainly given the scope of the problem and the 

13 urgent need to act, we know we can do even better 

14 by really harnessing the power of clean energy.

15 Fortunately, in Wisconsin, we're not 

16 starting from scratch. The Clean Power Plan will 

17 build on nearly a decade of investment in clean 

18 energy. It's not the first step, but it can be 

19 the last. But Wisconsin has made great strides 

20 already. We've passed renewable energy standards 

21 to get 10 percent clean energy by 2015 and 

22 programs like Focus on Energy have been 

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1 successful in incentivizing energy efficiency and 

2 solar programs in the state.

3 We know that clean energy works to cut 

4 pollution and already clean energy policies have 

5 cut carbon pollution in Wisconsin in 2012, the 

6 equivalent to taking 5.2 million cars off the 

7 road. And, you know, we just have the potential 

8 to get even more of our energy from solar and 

9 wind, and we're working on that.

10 I can, you know, really clearly envision 

11 a future in which all of our electricity comes 

12 from the wind that rolls across our fields and 

13 the sun, you know, that shines on our rooftops 

14 and our barns and businesses. And I know that we 

15 can make our homes and businesses so efficient 

16 that with solar panels on top, they would 

17 actually produce even more electricity than they 

18 consume. 

19 This really is the future that I envision 

20 for my family and for all Wisconsinites. I think 

21 it's the future we deserve. It’s certainly one 

22 we can make possible, and it's one that the Clean 

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1 Power Plan really has the potential to take us 

2 one step closer toward.

3 So I thank you so much for your time.

4 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

5 MS. EHLMAN: Hello. Good morning. My 

6 name is Martha Ehlman. The last name is spelled 

7 E-H-L-M-A-N.

8 I am the owner of Harpers Ferry, West 

9 Virginia's Green America business, Tenfold Fair 

10 Trade Collection. 

11 I am here before you today as a proud 

12 American, a West Virginia resident and business 

13 owner, and the granddaughter of two great men who 

14 both made their living in the coal mines of 

15 Southern West Virginia. 

16 I am grateful for the opportunity to 

17 speak with you today to show my support of the 

18 President's Climate Action Plan. I applaud the 

19 EPA's Clean Power Plan to reduce carbon pollution 

20 in the power sector.

21 As a small business whose focus is 

22 lifting up marginalized artisans, spanning the 

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1 globe, I often hear the worst of how climate 

2 disruption is affecting the poorest of the poor, 

3 from Indonesia's devastating Tsunami, to Haiti's 

4 mudslides, not to mention the plight of so many 

5 small farmers fighting to keep their crops alive 

6 in Central and South America, as well as Africa 

7 and other continents. It is important to our 

8 very existence that we do everything we can to 

9 halt climate disruption. I am here today because 

10 I am committed to the care of our planet, as well 

11 as the care of our global neighbors.

12 As a resident of West Virginia, I know 

13 all too well the dependency our state has on King 

14 Coal, and as the granddaughter of men that both 

15 died way too young of complications having to do 

16 with their line of work. I also know that our 

17 state's and our country's dependency on coal and 

18 other dirty energy has gone on for way too long. 

19 The illness that our miners and their 

20 communities suffer has to stop. The mass exodus 

21 from our state for greener pastures, for 

22 opportunity has to stop. The destruction of our 

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1 mountains has to stop. The poisoning of our 

2 rivers and streams has to stop. The pollution of 

3 our air has to stop.

4 I would love to see West Virginians given 

5 the opportunity to be leaders in new and 

6 renewable energy sources. I would love to see 

7 West Virginia's schools fitted with solar panels 

8 and more energy-efficient heating and cooling 

9 units as many of the school buildings in our 

10 neighboring State of Maryland have done.

11 In West Virginia, energy-efficiency 

12 programs could create as many as 19,500 new jobs 

13 in construction, installation, technology 

14 development, and other related fields within 

15 three years of aggressive investments by 

16 utilities. 

17 Energy efficiency creates more jobs per 

18 dollar spent than investments in any other part 

19 of the economy, including coal plants. 

20 Utility energy-efficiency programs make 

21 updating lighting, replacing outdated appliances, 

22 weatherizing homes and other money-saving 

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1 building upgrades more accessible to customers. 

2 I, myself, would love to be able to 

3 purchase my own electricity and my business' 

4 electricity from renewable sources. Sadly, at 

5 present, the only alternative I have is to 

6 purchase carbon offsets, which I do.

7 I support your commitment to a 30-percent 

8 drop in sector-wide carbon emissions by 2030, 

9 although I'd like to see it happen more quickly 

10 and in other sectors, as well, particularly 

11 industrial. 

12 I support your plan to put Americans to 

13 work making the U.S. electricity system less 

14 polluting and our homes and businesses more 

15 efficient, shrinking electricity bills by roughly 

16 8 percent in 2030; although, this, too, I would 

17 like to see happen more quickly. 

18 I would caution us not to move to less 

19 dirty energy sources such as natural gas or 

20 nuclear power. Nuclear power is not a climate 

21 solution. It may produce lower carbon energy, 

22 but it is not clean energy. Natural gas may have 

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1 a smaller carbon footprint, but it is not clean 

2 energy.

3 I do understand that in the political 

4 landscape in which we find ourselves it is 

5 impossible to enact a progressive carbon tax 

6 capable of funding renewable energy 

7 infrastructure. I also understand that this 

8 Administration is doing what it can without the 

9 blessing of Congress. 

10 I truly hope that with the improvements 

11 that the Clean Power Plan can make, we will be 

12 lead to turn our energies toward the technologies 

13 and strategies that can truly make a difference, 

14 that being solar power, wind power and energy 

15 conservation.

16 Thank you so much.

17 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both.

18 Our next panel is Sasha Tenenbaum and 

19 Jonathan Jacoby.

20 MR. JACOBY: Good morning.

21 MS. CRAIG: Good morning. And if you 

22 could start by spelling your name for the court 

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1 reporter, please.

2 MR. JACOBY: Sure. It's Jonathan Jacoby, 

3 J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N, Jacoby, J-A-C-O-B-Y.

4 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

5 MR. JACOBY: I'll spell it for her. 

6 Sasha, S-A-S-H-A, Tenenbaum, T-E-N-E-N-B-A-U-M.

7 Thank you for inviting our family to 

8 speak at the EPA's public hearings on the Clean 

9 Power Plan.

10 As a note of introduction, we are 

11 obviously here as a family. Our daughter, Simone 

12 Dafney, is here with us. Today was her second 

13 birthday. We also have another child here, 

14 although, in utero. She makes her debut in the 

15 wide world in, roughly, four months.

16 MS. TENENBAUM: As a mom active with the 

17 Mom's Clean Air Force and a former communication 

18 strategist for the Climate Group, I know that the 

19 biggest stakeholders when it comes to the future 

20 of our world are our children, my children, your 

21 children, our children. 

22 If we continue to allow carbon to be 

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1 spewed into the air unchecked, with each passing 

2 day, we will be leaving our children with 

3 uncertain, unhealthy and unsafe futures. In 

4 short, my message to you is to give our children 

5 clean air to breathe.

6 The facts are catching up with us. The 

7 American Lung Association tells us that up to 

8 100,000 asthma attacks and 4,000 premature deaths 

9 could be avoided in the first year alone when the 

10 Clean Power plan goes into effect.

11 Now, last Wednesday Simone and I were 

12 among a group of concerned moms with the Clean 

13 Air Force who, with their children, attended the 

14 packed Senate Hearing in which your EPA Chief, 

15 Gina McCarthy, issued a resoundingly strong 

16 defense of proposed curbs in carbon emissions 

17 from power plants.

18 Now, admittedly, I didn't catch every 

19 word that day, as my toddler, who is quite 

20 fidgety, didn't allow such privileges during the 

21 two-plus hour hearing. But what I heard both 

22 dismayed me and encouraged me. The continued 

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1 climate skepticism expressed by some senators is, 

2 indeed, worrisome. The open questioning of EPA's 

3 authority is plain absurd. Didn't Justice Scalia 

4 settle that score?

5 But I was deeply encouraged, even 

6 uplifted, by the Obama Administration's steadfast 

7 commitment to reduce pollution from power plants. 

8 But a real uplift for me would be to see the EPA 

9 go even more boldly in the direction of its 

10 mandate and not stop at 30 percent by 2030. 

11 While 30 by 2030 has a nice ring to it, we need 

12 an even deeper cut to carbon pollution. I would 

13 like to see emissions cut by 40 percent. That 

14 number is more in line with what the scientists 

15 are telling us we must do this without delay if 

16 we are to safeguard a bright future for Simone 

17 here and Junior here and billions of girls like 

18 them around the globe. 

19 Thank you very much.

20 MS. JACOBY: Good morning. When my 

21 grandmother, amusingly known as Dodo, was a spry 

22 98 years old, she became a climate refugee. 

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1 Superstorm Sandy wreaked enormous havoc on her 

2 historic apartment building on Lido Beach, New 

3 York.

4 Dodo and her friends and neighbors were 

5 displaced for nine months. Ever the resilient 

6 spirit, Dodo managed to weather the storm and the 

7 support of family and friends and the feds made 

8 that adaptation possible. Here's a photo of her.

9 Born earlier that year, our daughter, 

10 Simone Dafney, is celebrating her second birthday 

11 today, and Dodo will be celebrating her 100th 

12 birthday in a couple of months.

13 While Simone's spirit is as resilient as 

14 Dodo's, I cannot help but wonder what the weather 

15 will be like at her beloved Lido Beach on the day 

16 that Simone turns a hundred. After all, humanity 

17 is causing irreparable damage to our planet 

18 through the carbon emissions from our industrial 

19 and agricultural activities.

20 Former Treasury Secretaries, Robert 

21 Rubin, Henry Paulson, and former New York City 

22 Mayor Michael Bloomberg are the latest messengers 

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1 for both political parties to deliver a clarion 

2 call for climate action. 

3 In the Washington Post last week, Rubin 

4 summarized the new report that his triumvirate 

5 developed along a prestigious group of economists 

6 and scientists, quote: "The report's conclusions 

7 demonstrated a significant harm that climate 

8 change is causing now, and that will most 

9 certainly be far more severe in the future to the 

10 agricultural, energy and coastal-property 

11 sectors, as well as to public health and labor 

12 productivity more generally." No wonder the 

13 report is entitled, "Risky Business."

14 American businesses, large and small, are 

15 investing in both climate change mitigation and 

16 adaptation having seen the real world risks that 

17 extreme weather from droughts in the Midwest to 

18 floods in Thailand poses to their bottom line. 

19 Just yesterday, General Mills announced a bold 

20 new climate change policy. Oxfam, the 

21 international development and humanitarian 

22 organization for which I work, has invested years 

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1 in catalyzing its commitment from this all2 American food and beverage giant. After all, we 

3 see first-hand the impact that climate change is 

4 having on the world's most vulnerable people. 

5 Climate change being the insult to the injury of 

6 poverty.

7 If America's companies can take a lead, 

8 so, too, can America’s government. I commend the 

9 EPA for taking the lead to reduce our nation's 

10 carbon pollution. After all, leading by example 

11 is our best chance at prompting the other 192 

12 nations on the planet to join us in attacking the 

13 global challenge of climate change at the global 

14 scale that is required.

15 Thank you.

16 MS. CRAIG: Thanks to you both and happy 

17 birthday to Simone.

18 MR. JACOBY: Thank you.

19 MS. CRAIG: So our next panel is Frances 

20 Crutchfield and Richard Kennedy.

21 And if you could, start by spelling your 

22 name.

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1 MS. CRUTCHFIELD: Yes. My name is 

2 Frances Crutchfield, and it's 

3 C-R-U-T-C-H-F-I-E-L-D.

4 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

5 MS. CRUTCHFIELD: To the EPA, crucial 

6 institution, this isn't meant as a revolution and 

7 it is in no way prosecution. Please give heed to 

8 my elocution. We beg you to work for dissolution 

9 of bad air quality from pollution. For climate 

10 disruption's evolution, we must soon find a good 

11 solution such as a wind energy institution or 

12 solar power substitution for there can't be any 

13 restitution for damage for power plants’ carbon 

14 pollution.

15 The benefits of the Clean Power Plan mean 

16 better health for woman, child and man. Each 

17 state must develop its customized plan to meet 

18 challenges in ways that only it can.

19 Reduced emissions, the immediate goal; 

20 less soot and smog pollutions from coal; no more 

21 need for criticizers, fewer inhalers and 

22 nebulizers; and the hope that someday everywhere 

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1 children will be able to breathe clean air.

2 Thank you. 

3 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

4 MR. KENNEDY: My name is Richard Kennedy. 

5 I also spoke here at the 2012 hearing.

6 As an economic analyst at CIA for 31 

7 years, I occasionally worked on energy and 

8 environmental issues.

9 MS. CRAIG: Would you please spell your 

10 name for the court reporter.

11 MR. KENNEDY: Richard, R-I-C-H-A-R-D, 

12 Kennedy, like the well-known president, 

13 K-E-N-N-E-D-Y.

14 As I said, I worked a little bit on 

15 energy and environmental issues at CIA. Other 

16 people there did it full-time. My recollection 

17 is that by about 20 years ago, we had no doubt 

18 that climate change was a serious problem. So 

19 I'm here to support you in taking action.

20 I have one handout which is an update 

21 from the 2012 hearing. I call it global warming 

22 in one easy picture. It's just a chart from the 

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1 Northern Hemisphere. 

2 The blue line is average surface 

3 temperature going back to 1880 and the red line 

4 is the sea ice extent also going back to 1880. 

5 And as you can see, the temperature is going up 

6 and the sea ice is falling precipitously. So 

7 that, to me, is the really convincing evidence 

8 that the problem is real. 

9 I was personally convinced back about 

10 1992 by the "Economics of Global Warming." It 

11 was written by a very good economist named 

12 William Cline who looked at the evidence, 

13 evaluated it and came to the conclusion that the 

14 case for climate change was very strong and it 

15 was logical in that situation to start taking 

16 remedial action.

17 He came back to the issue three years ago 

18 with a book called, "Carbon Abatement Costs and 

19 Climate Change Finance," in which he argues that 

20 the costs of dealing with the problem are high, 

21 but manageable. It's not something that would, 

22 by any means, break the backs of our economy.

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1 Looking at this as an economist, the 

2 problem is that CO2 emissions are what we would 

3 call an "externality"; that is, it's a cost that 

4 some activity imposes on society and that cost is 

5 not incorporated in the price of the products 

6 that people buy. This is why the free market 

7 does not work in this situation, even though it's 

8 a marvelous institution that works very well in 

9 most places.

10 Even conservative economists would agree 

11 that there's a reason for government 

12 intervention. They would also agree that the 

13 best intervention would be a carbon tax which, 

14 obviously, is beyond EPA's powers, but steps in 

15 the right direction are a lot better than doing 

16 nothing.

17 What it would suggest is that any actions 

18 you take, you should rely on markets and 

19 individual initiative as far as possible because 

20 people have an extraordinary ability to find 

21 solutions when they have a financial incentive.

22 I saw this first-hand because I had a 

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1 very small part in the CIA's analysis of the 1973 

2 oil price hike when the price of crude went from 

3 $3 a barrel to $12 a barrel. And in hindsight, 

4 we badly underestimated how much both supply and 

5 demand would respond to that price increase. 

6 Of course, a 300-percent increase in a 

7 key commodity overnight was not a good idea, and 

8 the shock of that basically threw the world in a 

9 recession in 1974, but it did produce a big 

10 response from both consumers and producers.

11 Finally, the U.S. obviously can't solve 

12 the climate change by itself; but for the last 

13 century we have not hesitated to lead the world 

14 in dealing with big issues, and problems don't 

15 get much bigger than this. So I encourage you to 

16 take what steps you can and hope that others will 

17 follow.

18 And this final note, since the CIA 

19 basically is an organization that serves the 

20 executive branch of the government, it's perhaps 

21 within the power of your administrator to ask 

22 them for an assessment of the situation and you 

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1 would get a very objective, unbiased assessment 

2 because it's a very intellectually honest place, 

3 and that's what we do. 

4 Thank you very much.

5 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

6 And just a reminder to the panelists 

7 that, if you want, you can leave your written 

8 comments with the registration desk. 

9 And thank you for that suggestion. We 

10 appreciate it.

11 So our next panel is Stan Boyd and Adam 

12 Tiffen.

13 So if you would start with spelling your 

14 name, that would be great. Thank you.

15 MR. BOYD: Yes. My name is Stan, 

16 S-T-A-N, Boyd, B-O-Y-D. And thank you so much 

17 for allowing us, as citizens, to come and speak 

18 with you and express our concerns.

19 I am a fundamentalist Christian who will 

20 speak from my heart. I don't have a list or 

21 nothing to read. 

22 I just want to say that I think God has 

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1 created a beautiful, beautiful planet here, the 

2 most beautiful planet in our solar system. And I 

3 just hate to see mankind destroying it. And I 

4 see that happening as our air gets more polluted 

5 and our water is getting more polluted and our 

6 species are being killed off. And I think coal7 fired power plants are a major contributor to 

8 this. 

9 And as a child and young man in 

10 Washington, D.C., I saw the billows of smoke just 

11 coming up from the Benning Road Station, and I'm 

12 like, "Why do people permit this? Something 

13 should be done about this." 

14 And so I'm shocked to learn a few years 

15 ago there are no restrictions on coal power 

16 plants. How could that be when it's destroying 

17 this planet? 

18 So I'm really happy to hear that at last 

19 maybe there will be some steps taken to limit the 

20 pollution that is coming out. 

21 And I know that there are all kinds of 

22 profits for those who benefit from pollution, you 

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1 know, the industries that make money. But we 

2 have to think about this planet, and we have to 

3 think about our legacy to our children and the 

4 fact that all over the world the ice is melting. 

5 You know, what will happen when the 

6 rivers dry up and all the ice is gone? You know, 

7 we are headed for disaster. And this is what all 

8 of this means. I’m here as an individual. I'm 

9 not a paid lobbyist. I'm not working with any 

10 organization. I just care as an individual. 

11 I was a teacher for 37 years, and I 

12 started teaching back in 1970. So in any case, I 

13 know that the EPA is the Environmental Protection 

14 Agency, so I figure you are the ones that should 

15 be protecting our environment from pollution. 

16 And I'm glad that you are here to listen to what 

17 we have to say. 

18 I want to applaud this first step that 

19 you're taking, but I think it's such minuscule 

20 step compared to the great need. I mean, we've 

21 got to take urgent action. This has to be a 

22 world priority, and I've read that all round the 

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1 world leaders are ready to act and do much more, 

2 but the U.S. has been holding back. And we are 

3 the leader. If we don't rule, then there's not 

4 much that can be done. 

5 So I will say that, really, the first 

6 thing, I think we should close all of our coal7 fired power plants and move immediately to a 

8 crash program for solar power and wind power, 

9 clean energy. And I have read that it is 

10 possible to do this. It might take 20 to 30 

11 years, but we could actually move that fast if we 

12 have the will to that fast. 

13 And I'm saying that as the Environmental 

14 Protection Agency, you should be able to bank on 

15 urging, urging to the President, urging it 

16 wherever you can because we have so many other 

17 agencies and powers that are urging not to do 

18 much of anything.

19 So if the EPA does take bigger steps and 

20 the government mandates things, industry will be 

21 able to adjust. They always have when they've 

22 had to do it. 

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1 And we've seen much more fires in 

2 California and across the country. And, you 

3 know, they can do it, but they need the will to 

4 do it. And I would urge you to show them the 

5 will, show them people care, you know, that we 

6 really need to take much bigger steps than just 

7 this one that's being proposed. But at least 

8 thank you for taking a first step.

9 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much.

10 MR. TIFFEN: My name is Adam Tiffen, 

11 alpha, delta, alpha, mike. Tango, India, fox, 

12 fox, echo, November.

13 Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the 

14 opportunity to discuss how climate change poses a 

15 direct threat to our national security and why 

16 the Clean Power Plan is a critical policy that 

17 will not only make us safer as a nation, but also 

18 ensure global stability.

19 My name is Adam Tiffen. I am a U.S. Army 

20 Veteran. I served three tours of duty in Iraq 

21 and Afghanistan as an infantry officer.

22 It was during my first deployment in 2005 

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1 when, as a rifle platoon leader, I was 

2 responsible for providing security for fuel 

3 convoys throughout Al Anbar province. 

4 It was then that I first came to realize 

5 how dependent the U.S. military, and by 

6 extension, the United States has become on fossil 

7 fuels. Without energy, we could not fight. 

8 Combat outposts, tanks, Humvees, aircraft 

9 and radios were all dependent on one thing, 

10 energy.

11 Due to the enormous demands placed on our 

12 supply chain, we could not alter our routes. We 

13 could not alter our schedule. Insurgents could 

14 literally set their watches by our convoys. This 

15 was the weak link in our supply chain, and it 

16 took enormous economic and personal sacrifice by 

17 our combat troops to secure the delivery of this 

18 energy to the warfighter. It is not an 

19 exaggeration to say that to secure the vital 

20 lifeblood of our forces, fuel, service members 

21 often, and in many cases, unnecessarily lost 

22 their lives.

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1 Beyond my direct areas of responsibility,

2 I saw first-hand the impacts of war on innocent 

3 civilian populations and the violence and chaos 

4 that occurs when some of the most impoverished 

5 places in the world are destabilized by conflict. 

6 The strong prey upon the weak. Civil society 

7 breaks down, replaced by extremism. Nations 

8 break into tribes, and tribes turn upon each 

9 other. 

10 The most vulnerable bear the brunt of the 

11 conflict. In Baghdad, suicide bombs killed 

12 indiscriminately, turning market places into 

13 slaughter pens. In Kabul, high in the Hindu Kush 

14 Mountains, children froze to death during the 

15 winters in refugee camps.

16 As costly as Iraq and Afghanistan proved 

17 to be in both blood and treasure, they are a 

18 microcosm of what could be a new normal worldwide 

19 as a result of climate change.

20 Climate change exacerbates every struggle 

21 and challenge to global security and prosperity 

22 from increased frequency and intensity of extreme 

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1 weather events, such as droughts, floods and 

2 storms, to resource scarcities, the impacts of 

3 climate change are already accelerating the risk 

4 of violence and conflict from Africa to the 

5 Middle East to the Pacific Rim.

6 And while the impacts will be felt 

7 worldwide, it is the poorest, most vulnerable 

8 populations that will disproportionately suffer 

9 the most form the effects of climate change. 

10 Resource scarcity will lead to the 

11 destabilization of already weak governments, 

12 increasing refugee populations and spreading 

13 armed conflict.

14 Moreover, severe weather events have left 

15 these populations vulnerable to recruitment by 

16 extremist organizations that are poised to take 

17 advantage of the resulting economic and societal 

18 chaos. 

19 Nature abhors a vacuum, and where civil 

20 society breaks down as a result of unrest caused 

21 by increased poverty and scarcity, fundamentalism 

22 and authoritarianism that poses a clear threat to 

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1 our national security will assume control.

2 Recent and ongoing crises in places like 

3 Syria, Nigeria and Pakistan illustrate how a 

4 confluence of factors, exacerbated by climate 

5 impacts, has been a catalyst for conflict. If we 

6 as a nation have learned anything over the last 

7 decade, surely it is that events in far-flung 

8 places have a direct impact on our security at 

9 home. Therefore, climate change isn't just a 

10 risk abroad; it poses a direct threat to our 

11 national security.

12 The impacts of climate change are also 

13 expanding areas of responsibility for our 

14 military. Recently, Secretary of Defense, Chuck 

15 Hagel, stated that the melting of polar ice caps, 

16 a result of climate change, is enhancing 

17 "dangerous potential for conflict in the Arctic." 

18 In an era of significant fiscal constraints, our 

19 military will be required to respond to these 

20 global challenges by spending precious resources 

21 and placing our men and women in harm's way.

22 At a speech to the graduating cadets at 

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1 West Point, President Obama called climate change 

2 "a creeping national security crisis that will 

3 help shape your time in uniform as we're called 

4 on to respond to refugee flows, natural 

5 disasters, and conflicts over water and food."

6 Climate change is not only increasing the 

7 risk of conflict, but also the frequency of 

8 climate-related disasters that will require 

9 humanitarian assistance from the U.S. Whenever 

10 natural disasters occur around the world, nations 

11 look to the United States to react. In 2013, 

12 after Typhoon Haiyan devastated the Philippines, 

13 the U.S, Navy deployed marines and soldiers to 

14 conduct rescue missions and offer assistance 

15 within the first 36 hours. These humanitarian 

16 ventures are important because they uphold 

17 America's image around the world, and they 

18 undeniably detract from primary missions. 

19 Climate change means more of these 

20 natural disasters, but as Secretary of the Navy 

21 Ray Mabus noted, our military already receives a 

22 request for aid or disaster relief every two 

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1 weeks. This burden will only increase if climate 

2 change continues unchecked.

3 And the impacts aren't just felt abroad, 

4 but also right here at home. Rising sea levels 

5 and extreme weather events threaten critical 

6 infrastructure and reduce the operational 

7 capability of our military's installations. 

8 Rising numbers of weather events are reducing 

9 training needs and impacting mission readiness. 

10 Thank you for your time.

11 MS. CRAIG: Thank you so much. We 

12 appreciate it.

13 And just a reminder for the panelists, if 

14 you want to, leave your remarks with the 

15 registration desk. Thank you so much.

16 So our next panelist is David Berry.

17 MR. BERRY: Good morning. My name is 

18 David, D-A-V-I-D, Berry, B-E-R-R-Y.

19 I currently run the Sustainable Water 

20 Resources Roundtable, a forum for government 

21 agencies from federal, state and occasionally 

22 local and municipal sector. Major corporations 

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1 appeal to us from time to time, but that’s to 

2 make sure we not up to anything too impactful. 

3 And academia and some people consulting or 

4 working in the world of water.

5 We have heard in our meetings from major 

6 corporations that their CEO gets the impact of 

7 climate change. A manufacturer of soft drinks, 

8 one of the most known, said we are in the 

9 business of selling water. Climate change is 

10 affecting our ability to get water. It's 

11 destabilizing the areas in which we are 

12 operating, and our public image depends on what 

13 we do in communities to help solve problems.

14 We've heard from several branches of the 

15 U.S. military, and I'd like to give a nod to him 

16 -- or I think he just left. 

17 We've heard the U.S. Corps of Army 

18 Engineers, the Department of Defense, 

19 specifically the Strategic Initiative for 

20 Research and Development on Environment, that one 

21 of the major threats to the national security of 

22 the United States is, indeed, climate change. 

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1 The U.S. Navy is spending a lot of money looking 

2 at what does it need to do its bases, which I 

3 quipped in the meeting, "Aren't Navy bases close 

4 to the sea, generally speaking?" 

5 Having never been in the Navy, I'm not an

6 expert on this. But storm surge is the immediate 

7 problem. Rising sea level is a long-term 

8 problem. If you loved your grandchildren, that 

9 one matters. 

10 But more frequent, more violent storms 

11 was predicted by NOAA in the 1990s as one of the 

12 key indicators of the impact of climate change. 

13 So this is happening. 

14 I am very grateful that EPA is doing 

15 this. In the unfolding process of implementation 

16 and manifestation, I hope you already are, and 

17 I'd invite you to continue, reaching out to other 

18 government agencies, like DoD, like NOAA, like 

19 the Department of Interior, other experts who 

20 also have their relationships and constituencies 

21 to improve the odds of implementing this. 

22 It's stunning to me that after all of 

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1 these years, this is still considered sometimes 

2 to be a partisan issue. Fifteen to 20 years ago, 

3 I was in the government. I had meetings with 

4 scientists. I served on a couple of the 

5 committees of our Academy of Science and key 

6 people form the Russian Academy of Science. 

7 Fifteen to 20 years ago the Russians thought that 

8 climate change might be good for Russia. 

9 And I said, You don't have any low-lying 

10 sea coasts? Not so many. 

11 After many fires, many floods, many 

12 droughts, destabilization of their food supply, 

13 from their point of view, the main issue is the 

14 unpredictability and instability of climate 

15 change. And it isn't just getting warmer. It's 

16 getting more chaotic, which makes business 

17 decisions hard, agricultural decisions hard, 

18 government budgeting issues hard, and it's 

19 potentially more harmful to human populations and 

20 our environment than just a gradual change. We 

21 don't know what happens next or what impact.

22 Personally -- and I came here not because 

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1 of any professional association, but I care about 

2 this a lot. I left U.S. Government service in 

3 August of 2001. And three days later, I flew to 

4 the Arctic, and I walked on the Greenland Ice 

5 Cap. I walked in the Canadian Northern – the 

6 very northern Ireland islands, farther north than 

7 north shore of Alaska, in the company of 

8 scientists, geologists and lots of interested 

9 people. 

10 Eight weeks later, I went to Antarctica 

11 and, again, there was a Russian scientist on the 

12 ship, and an American scientist on the ship. 

13 And I saw it with my own eyes, before and after, 

14 the glaciers and patterns of the ecosystem. 

15 I have a house on the Chesapeake Bay, and 

16 I would like to hand it off to my descendants. 

17 It's our summer home. This affects me personally 

18 through my network of friends in my own world and 

19 in the developing world. 

20 I want to conclude by thanking you for 

21 your patience, each of you, and our Board to come 

22 here and listen to testimony after testimony. I 

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1 encourage you to be as effective as an 

2 organization as you can.

3 I was at the Kennedy Center a couple of 

4 weeks ago when I heard Dennis Miller say, "I 

5 don't believe in climate change," and he made 

6 some sort of funny, little sarcastic humor about 

7 how clean the sheets are, even in the hotel.

8 And I felt the poor man doesn't know, and he's on 

9 record trashing something that our own military 

10 says is a threat to our national security.

11 So part of what we all need to do, those 

12 that are testifying and government agencies, is 

13 giving the people that are making public 

14 declarations that this is not real a little room 

15 not to be totally painted into the corner. 

16 That's a matter of finesse. 

17 But I think it's possible because this is 

18 a threat to all of us regardless of political 

19 strife or what generation we're in, and we have a 

20 responsibility to be skillful in making these 

21 changes. 

22 Thank you for what you do.

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1 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much.

2 So our next speaker is Ron Edelstein.

3 MR. EDELSTEIN: Thank you very much. I 

4 appreciate being able to present my views.

5 MS. CRAIG: Could you please spell your 

6 name for the court reporter.

7 MR. EDELSTEIN: Sure. E-D-E-L-S-T-E-I-N, 

8 first name Ron. I'm the Director of Regulatory 

9 and Government Relations with the Gas Technology 

10 Institute. We're the R&D arm for the natural gas 

11 industry and gas consumers.

12 So we're very excited about 111(d), and

13 I'm here to urge two things for EPA to consider.

14 One is in the bucket that represents 

15 energy efficiency. We think it's very, very 

16 critical to allow the substitution of natural gas 

17 for direct use, in particular with respect to 

18 electric resistance water heating. Every 

19 electric resistance water heater you take out 

20 gives you 3000 kilowatt hours of savings. 

21 Electric resistance water heaters are 27 percent 

22 efficient in full fuel cycle. In essence, 

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1 electric resistant water heaters can be 

2 90 percent efficient for a full fuel cycle, plus, 

3 you know, a 92 percent efficiency of transmission 

4 and distribution of the gas. So you are talking 

5 about 80 percent overall efficiency, so a major 

6 savings there. 

7 And of course, electric resistance 

8 heating, extremely low efficiency. Again, 27 to 

9 30 percent full fuel cycle efficiency, a 

10 tremendous savings for those that areas that have 

11 electric resistance heating.

12 So we urge the inclusion of fuel 

13 substitution at the end use to displace electric 

14 energy, especially in space and water heating, 

15 and, of course, if there is anything left, the 

16 waters.

17 The second point, combined heat and power 

18 to distribute generation. We think this is a 

19 very, very important option. And we would urge 

20 the inclusion of these to displace kilowatt hours 

21 from major power plants. We think this is 

22 important. It also helps resiliency of the 

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1 agents. 

2 And so we think that both of these 

3 options combined with power to distribute and 

4 generation and then fuel substitution, if you 

5 will, at the engine site are very, very critical 

6 to help the states meet their CO2 reduction and 

7 kilowatt hour reduction goals. 

8 Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

9 MS. CRAIG: Thank you. We appreciate it.

10 So our next two speakers are Jim Griffin 

11 and Meredyth Gottschall.

12 MR. GRIFFIN: James Griffin, J-A-M-E-S, 

13 G-R-I-F-F-I-N.

14 Good morning. I am the president, 

15 business manager and financial secretary of the 

16 International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 

17 Local Union 1900 here in Washington, D.C.

18 MS. CRAIG: I'm sorry. I didn't hear 

19 what you said right before that.

20 MR. GRIFFIN: I am the president, 

21 business manager, financial secretary of the 

22 International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, 

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1 Local Union 1900 here in Washington, D.C.

2 On behalf of the, approximately, 1,500 

3 members of Local 1900, I thank you for this 

4 opportunity to testify regarding the EPA's Clean 

5 Power Plan.

6 Local 1900 is a utility local union that 

7 represents 330 employees at three NRG Energy 

8 coal-fired plants in Maryland. The Dickerson 

9 plant is in upper northwest Montgomery County, 

10 the Chalk Point Plant is in Southern Prince 

11 George's County, and the Morgantown Plant is in 

12 Charles County near the -- actually, at the 

13 Maryland-Virginia line on Route 301. These 

14 employees live in Maryland, D.C., Virginia and 

15 Pennsylvania. Local 1900 also represents two 

16 other companies, PEPCO here in D.C. and Maryland, 

17 and a Washington Gas office in Frederick, 

18 Maryland.

19 I'm here today to urge you to consider 

20 the economic, social and reliability impact that 

21 would result from our three generating plants 

22 shutting their doors.

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1 Our 330 members at those three plants are 

2 currently paid between $20 million and $22 

3 million annually in straight-time wages. These 

4 jobs are well-paid with very good benefits. They 

5 have a defined pension, contribute to 401(k) 

6 accounts and have a robust health insurance plan.

7 The loss of these jobs would have a 

8 devastating impact on the communities in which 

9 these plants are located, as well as the 

10 hometowns of these employees. There would be a 

11 loss of tax revenue to the federal and state 

12 governments. Sales tax dollars would be lost. 

13 Some would be forced to seek government help to 

14 even feed their families.

15 Their job skills could not easily be 

16 transferred to other occupations. Running and

17 maintaining a power plant is very specialized, as 

18 I am sure you know.

19 In the recent past, Local 1900 has 

20 experienced the loss of jobs at generating 

21 plants. The former Potomac River Plant in 

22 Alexandria, Virginia, employed 80 Local 1900 

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1 members until it closed in 2012.

2 I received calls and emails from these 

3 employees as they faced the loss of jobs that 

4 they faithfully held for 20, 25, 30 years and 

5 longer. The desperation in their voices was 

6 heartbreaking.

7 Last year, NRG Energy laid off 55 more of 

8 our members at those three Maryland plants and, 

9 while this was eventually achieved through a 

10 voluntary severance, there were many younger 

11 employees just starting out in life with young 

12 families who experienced a lot of anxiety over 

13 their job security until the voluntary severance 

14 was eventually completed.

15 These real-life job losses are not 

16 limited to union positions in the plants. 

17 Management employees, contractors and suppliers 

18 will all lose. More jobs will be lost in the 

19 railroad, mining, electrical and service 

20 industries.

21 Not only will this rule devastate the 

22 communities that depend on power plant jobs, it 

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1 threatens the reliability of the electrical grid, 

2 meaning higher electrical bills for consumers and 

3 businesses across the country and increased 

4 blackouts and brownouts.

5 Now, during this past winter's polar 

6 vortex, the plants Local 1900 represents in 

7 Maryland were running full till. I know I was 

8 very appreciative to come home from work each 

9 evening to a warm home, and I suspect you would 

10 also.

11 Thank you for this opportunity to 

12 testify. I know that my international union is 

13 ready to work with you toward a climate change 

14 solution that keeps the best interest of 

15 consumers, workers and the environment in mind. 

16 Unfortunately, the Clean Power Plan is not that 

17 solution.

18 Thank you, again.

19 MS. CRAIG: Thank you so much. 

20 Meredith Gottschall.

21 MS. GOTTSCHALL: Hi. I'm speaking on 

22 behalf of Jay Chancellor, who is a sportsman from 

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1 Virginia.

2 MS. CRAIG: Yes. And could you spell 

3 your name for the court reporter, please.

4 MS. GOTTSCHALL: Sure. It's 

5 M-E-R-E-D-Y-T-H. My last name is Gottschall, 

6 G-O-T-T-S-C-H-A-L-L.

7 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

8 MS. GOTTSCHALL: Thank you for the 

9 opportunity to submit formal testimony regarding 

10 EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. My name is Jay 

11 Chancellor and I live, hunt and fish in 

12 Virginia's New River Valley.

13 I'm extremely pleased to see the 

14 Administration taking action on one of the 

15 greatest threats facing our society today, and I 

16 applaud the EPA's efforts to reduce carbon 

17 emissions from power plants.

18 The Clean Power Plan is a major step in 

19 the right direction toward protecting fish, 

20 wildlife, habitat and people from the devastating 

21 impacts of climate change.

22 Working as a hunting guide out west after 

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1 college, I saw these impacts first-hand: poor 

2 habitat, fewer moose and elk and fewer clients 

3 willing to pay for hunts with a much lower 

4 success rate.

5 Back home in Virginia, some reports have 

6 estimated that we could lose as much as 90 

7 percent of our native trout population in this 

8 century. Even abundant species like turkey and 

9 whitetail could be impacted as climate shifts 

10 expose them to invasive species and increased 

11 disease.

12 Changing climate and habitat are bad for 

13 wildlife and bad for sportsmen, but they are also 

14 a threat to local economies. Everyone from the 

15 local guide or outfitter to the hotels and 

16 restaurants that cater to out-of-town visitors 

17 are affected.

18 Here in Virginia outdoor recreation 

19 generates $13.6 billion in consumer spending and 

20 directly supports 138,000 jobs. Most of the 

21 hunting and fishing guides I know support efforts 

22 to reduce carbon pollution because, at the very 

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1 least, they understand that climate change is bad 

2 for business.

3 Reducing carbon emissions from fossil 

4 fuels is undeniably important. As our nation 

5 continues to grow and prosper, industrial 

6 development and energy consumption will 

7 necessarily increase. That is why, looking 

8 forward, it is critical to ensure that America's 

9 energy demands are increasingly met by cleaner 

10 renewable sources like wind and solar.

11 In finalizing your plan, I urge you to 

12 achieve the greatest possible reductions by 

13 requiring the use of these technologies which are 

14 less harmful to human health, wildlife and 

15 habitat.

16 I learned to hunt and fish on my 

17 grandfather's farm in rural Illinois. When I 

18 have children and grandchildren of my own, I hope 

19 I will be able to provide them with the same 

20 wonderful outdoor opportunity as I had growing 

21 up.

22 In 25 or 50 years, I hope to see cold 

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1 water streams filled with brook trout, lakes and 

2 rivers teaming with small-mouth bass and skies 

3 darkened by abundant ducks and geese.

4 I will close with the words of President 

5 Theodore Roosevelt: "To waste, to destroy our 

6 natural resources, to skin and exhaust the land 

7 instead of using it so as to increase its 

8 usefulness will result in undermining the days of 

9 our children, the very prosperity which we ought 

10 to, by right, hand down to them."

11 Thank you for the opportunity to express 

12 my views today. I hope you will keep these words 

13 in mind as you finalize the Clean Power Plan.

14 MS. CRAIG: Thank you very much.

15 So our next panel is Walter Tsou and 

16 Cindy Parker, and the panel after that will be 

17 Anna Aurilio and Victor Goldberg.

18 And I apologize profusely for massacring 

19 people's names.

20 So you can start however you want. Just 

21 make sure that you spell your name for the court 

22 reporter.

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1 MR. TSOU: Thank you. My name is Walter 

2 Tsou, T-S-O-U. 

3 I chair the board of Philadelphia 

4 Physicians for Social Responsibility and have 

5 served in the past as Health Commissioner of 

6 Philadelphia. 

7 I applaud the EPA for forwarding your 

8 Clean Power Plan that sets achievable goals for 

9 states in order to reduce carbon pollution 

10 nationwide. We are also likely to have 

11 additional benefits of reducing sulphur dioxide, 

12 mercury, PM 2.5, ground-level ozone and nitrogen 

13 oxide.

14 The National Climate Assessment leaves no 

15 doubt that the burning of fossil fuels has 

16 produced carbon pollution that has made climate 

17 change and global warming a public health threat 

18 of epic proportions. As a public health 

19 physician, I have witnessed permanent 

20 environmental destruction from fracking, extreme 

21 weather changes forcing serious displacement of 

22 people and property across the world, island 

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1 countries at risk of being submerged as sea 

2 levels rise, asthma as the leading medical reason 

3 for school truancy, heat-related deaths after 

4 prolonged heatwaves, fish contaminated by 

5 mercury, and tropical diseases previously unseen 

6 in temperate climates. And these are only within 

7 my personal limited lifespan which is a mere 

8 speck of Earth's lifespan. In short, we are 

9 seeing seismic changes unraveling before our very 

10 eyes.

11 As stewards of our planet and as 

12 responsible parents to our children, we cannot 

13 sit on our hands while we know that we are facing 

14 a global crisis of immense proportions.

15 These proposed regulations are important, but are 

16 the bare minimal steps that need to be taken. 

17 Indeed, I would argue that these measures do not 

18 go far enough. 

19 In crafting these regulations, we 

20 recognize that how states achieve these goals 

21 will vary, but we also know that these 

22 restrictions will force renewed attention to 

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1 renewable energy sources. It is the latter goal 

2 of moving us toward renewable sources that could 

3 transform how we prepare America for our energy 

4 needs for future generations. 

5 Electric cars will transform how we 

6 consume fossil fuels. Future homes will have 

7 geothermal wells, energy-efficient windows and 

8 appliances, and solar panel roof shingles, and I 

9 should add more great jobs to create those. And 

10 more of us will be vegetarians.

11 Opponents of these regulations will argue 

12 that the cost of energy will go up and that we 

13 are decades away from the utopian dream of 

14 renewable energy. 

15 In terms of cost, consider the economic 

16 cost of the drought in California, the rebuilding 

17 of New Orleans, New York and New Jersey after 

18 their hurricanes, the bleak future for our 

19 children on a planet that is two degrees warmer. 

20 And in terms of the, quote, "pie in the 

21 sky," renewable energy, well, I think we are up 

22 to the challenge. America does best when we have 

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1 our eyes on a goal and we use our creativity to 

2 achieve it. 

3 The technology exists today. I repeat 

4 the technology to do this exists today. These 

5 rules will start moving us in the right 

6 direction. 

7 Thank you.

8 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

9 MS. PARKER: Hi, I'm Cindy Parker, 

10 C-I-N-D-Y, P-A-R-K-E-R.

11 I'm on the faculty at the Johns Hopkins 

12 Bloomberg School of Public Health. I'm a 

13 physician. 

14 I took the train down from Baltimore 

15 today actually not to quote more facts and 

16 figures to you because you already know those. I 

17 came because I know you're getting a lot of push18 back from those who benefit financially from the 

19 status quo. And I want to make sure that you 

20 know that there's also a lot of support out there 

21 for this rule.

22 It's a great starting point. I would 

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1 love to see it stronger. I definitely don't want 

2 to see it weaker.

3 When we talk about the numbers of people, 

4 lives saved and, like, 150,000 asthma attacks 

5 avoided every year -- that's from the EPA 

6 documents -- sometimes I think we forget that 

7 there are actually individuals behind those 

8 numbers.

9 And I don't know if you've actually 

10 witnessed or sat with someone having an asthma 

11 attack -- and as a physician, I have experience 

12 that way too much. It's remarkable. It sticks 

13 with you because people are working. That person 

14 having an asthma attack is working and struggling 

15 to get that air into those squeezed-up airways, 

16 and then they have to work just as hard to get 

17 that air back out again to make more room for the 

18 next breath and trying to get that in. And it's 

19 terrifying to not be able to breathe. 

20 And you can see that in their eyes, that 

21 they're terrified. And you wait for the medicine 

22 to work, and you hope that it will work and it 

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1 just doesn't work fast enough.

2 And so when we talk about 150,000 asthma 

3 attacks avoided every year, just keep in mind 

4 that, you know, that's huge. That's really 

5 significant. That's 150,000 of those terrifying 

6 attacks that aren't going to happen, and that 

7 might be your own child or your own family member 

8 who is not having that asthma attack.

9 The 6,600 lives that would be prevented 

10 from being lost every year as a result of this 

11 plan, that's 6,600 children, parents, 

12 grandparents, colleagues, friends that we won't 

13 have to lose every year. So I just wanted to 

14 just sort of remind everybody that there is real 

15 people behind those numbers.

16 We have data to show that the public 

17 actually supports this kind of action. Survey 

18 data from the State of Maryland that was 

19 conducted by the George Mason University Climate 

20 Change Communication Center in conjunction with 

21 the State Department of Health and Mental Hygiene 

22 of Maryland actually shows that there is a 

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1 majority of Marylanders who are concerned about 

2 climate change and how it is already impacting 

3 their health and how that will get worse. 

4 They're concerned about fossil fuel energy 

5 affecting their health. 

6 They actually want their government 

7 officials and their state authorities to take the 

8 actions necessary to prevent the climate change 

9 from getting worse and to clean up the air. And 

10 that's actually the majority of Marylanders 

11 surveyed, depending on sort of which questions, 

12 up to 85 percent of Marylanders surveyed are 

13 supportive of this type of action.

14 We do need to make sure that the poor are 

15 protected from their bills getting so high that 

16 they can't pay them or that they have to forego 

17 something else important to pay them.

18 And we know that, actually, that can be done. 

19 But we definitely need to keep those in mind. 

20 We also need to keep in mind the loss of the 

21 dirty energy jobs and make sure that there are 

22 policies in place to transition those people into 

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1 clean jobs because what affects our economy and 

2 loss of jobs also affects our health.

3 But despite the push-back that you'll get 

4 from some, I want to support you and want to make 

5 sure that you know that there are a lot of people 

6 out there supporting you and wanting this plan to 

7 go into effect and wanting it to get stronger and 

8 definitely not weaker, and then wanting it to get 

9 built upon.

10 So thank you for the opportunity.

11 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both.

12 So our next panel is Anna Aurilio and 

13 Victor Goldberg. And then the panel after that, 

14 so you all are prepared, is Terry Williams and 

15 Mya Jefferson.

16 MR. GOLDBERG: Victor Goldberg, G-O-L-D, 

17 like gold, B-E-R-G, Goldberg.

18 MS. CRAIG: Thank you.

19 MR. GOLDBERG: We have been listening to 

20 all of these problems that coal produces. And

21 the argument usually is made that coal is cheap.

22 The reason that is it cheap is because the states 

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1 are not yet reducing the compounds or the users 

2 of the compounds, especially those that are 

3 affected the problems that coal produces.

4 So I suggest there should be a legal 

5 arrangement so that those that actually create 

6 all of these health problems pay directly for 

7 those problems that are produced and pay for the 

8 expenses that are related for their use of coal.

9 Thank you.

10 MS. CRAIG: Thank you. We appreciate 

11 that.

12 MS. AURILIO: Good morning. My name is 

13 Anna A-N-N-A, A-U-R-I-L-I-O.

14 I run the Washington, D.C., Office for 

15 Environment America. We're a federation, 29 

16 state-based environmental advocacy organizations 

17 active across the country.

18 I wanted to say three things today. 

19 First, is to talk a little bit about Environment 

20 America's work on this issue which is the number 

21 one environmental threat facing the country and 

22 world; second, is to talk about my own personal 

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1 experience with global warming; and third is to 

2 talk about the solutions that we know that we 

3 have at our fingertips.

4 First and foremost, Environment America 

5 wholeheartedly supports EPA's Clean Power Plan. 

6 We think this has been a long time coming and, if 

7 we do it right, it will be the largest single 

8 step that any country has ever taken to cut 

9 carbon pollution. And you don't need to look at 

10 the headlines every single day to know that we 

11 cannot wait another minute to take this action.

12 The second thing is Environment America 

13 has been organizing around the country for years 

14 to tackle global warming and pollution. We've 

15 been working at the state level and the federal 

16 level to build the public support for limiting 

17 carbon pollution, power plant pollution and 

18 eliminating pollution from cars, as well.

19 Our vision is that, ultimately, we re20 power the country with a hundred percent clean 

21 energy and then people can travel from home to 

22 their school or their business either with 

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1 alternative transportation, biking and walking, 

2 or with cars that are so clean they emit no 

3 pollution and they're powered by renewable energy 

4 generated by their homes. Our vision is that we 

5 have homes and buildings and schools that are so 

6 energy efficient that the only energy you need is 

7 generated right there on site.

8 It's in the future, but we've been making 

9 great progress. We have five states that are 

10 represented here in D.C. today at these hearings, 

11 so we have representatives from Environment 

12 Maryland, Wisconsin Environment, Environment New 

13 Jersey, Penn Environment, and Environment 

14 Virginia, and our executive director testified 

15 today. We'll also be participating at the 

16 hearings that are happening in Pittsburgh, Denver 

17 and Atlanta. So we know people support this. 

18 That's our work.

19 My own personal experience with global 

20 warming is ongoing. I moved here from Boston in 

21 1993, and I was shocked by the hot and humid 

22 summers. And the last thing I want as a bike 

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1 commuter is hotter and more humid summers and 

2 more air pollution. As the mom of a nine-year3 old daughter, I also worry greatly about the 

4 future that she's going to inherit. 

5 And then just this past couple of weeks, 

6 it got even more personal for me. My brother and 

7 his three young children live out in Leavenworth, 

8 Washington. He's a volunteer firefighter, and he 

9 had to be stationed along the roads leading into 

10 his town to make sure that the huge wildfire that 

11 was approaching the town didn't jump over the 

12 river and burn their house. Luckily, they're 

13 okay and he's okay, but it does make a person 

14 worry.

15 My sister lives in California and they 

16 have to worry about water conservation. My 11-

17 year-old nephew was very excited that he doesn't 

18 have to shower as frequently, but nobody else is.

19 So we don't need any more of these 

20 problems. And, obviously, all of the health 

21 impacts that people talked about are real and 

22 unacceptable in the year 2014 where we have the 

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1 technology to do so much better.

2 So let me spend just a minute or two 

3 talking about the promise of the future and how 

4 far we've come.

5 We already know that solar power, as 

6 President Obama has said, every four minutes a 

7 home or business goes solar. The price of solar 

8 has gone down dramatically. States that have put 

9 in place incentives like solar panels and 

10 incentives for homeowners are reaping the 

11 benefits both in terms of clean air quality and 

12 lower electricity bills for people who have the 

13 solar panels. 

14 We know that wind energy can power our 

15 homes and our businesses. In fact, we have so 

16 much wind power already installed that we're 

17 powering the equivalent of 15 million homes. 

18 To me, as an engineer by background, it's a 

19 travesty that this country doesn't have a single 

20 offshore wind turbine spinning to generate power. 

21 We could power a large part of the cities and the 

22 eastern seaboard if we developed the existing and 

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1 available wind energy. And the Obama 

2 Administration has started making great strides 

3 in that direction.

4 So in closing, we know we have the 

5 technology. We know we can do better. We urge 

6 EPA to finalize the strongest possible Clean 

7 Power Plan, maximize the clean power and the 

8 Clean Power Plan by assuming more renewables that 

9 perhaps you used originally. 

10 But we wholeheartedly support it, and 

11 we'll be working as hard as we can to push this 

12 over the finish line.

13 Thank you.

14 MS. CRAIG: Thank you. 

15 So our next panel is Terry Wiliams and 

16 Mya Jefferson. And then the last panel before we 

17 have lunch is Nicola Branham. 

18 MS. BASTIAN: Nicola Bastian?

19 MS. CRAIG: It says B-R-A-N-H-A-M. Is 

20 there someone with that name?

21 MS. BASTIAN: I'm Nicola Bastian. 

22 MS. CRAIG: Okay. So you will be 

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1 after -- 

2 MS. BASTIAN: After this one? 

3 MS. CRAIG: Yes. You will be after this 

4 panel.

5 MR. WILIAMS: Good morning. 

6 Initially, I want to thank President 

7 Obama for his courage and his strident 

8 initiatives to safeguard our nation and our world 

9 from the dangerous implications of climate 

10 disruption.

11 MS. CRAIG: Excuse me. Could you start 

12 by spelling your name?

13 MR. WILIAMS: Okay.

14 MR. CRAIG: Thank you.

15 MR. WILIAMS: Terry, T-E-R-R-Y, Wiliams, 

16 W-I-L-I-A-M-S.

17 MS. CRAIG: Okay, thank you. I'm sorry 

18 to interrupt.

19 MR. WILIAMS: Again, I want to thank 

20 President Obama for his courage and his strident 

21 initiatives to safeguard our nation and our world 

22 from the dangerous implications of climate 

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1 disruption due to increased carbon emissions. 

2 I also want to thank the EPA and its 

3 administrators for facilitating these hearings, 

4 giving us all an opportunity to express our 

5 support for President Obama's Climate Action 

6 Plan. And thanks to the Sierra Club for its 

7 intrepid advocacy concern for our precious 

8 environment.

9 Again, my name is Terry Wiliams and I 

10 serve as president of the Eastwick Friends and 

11 Neighbors Coalition. Ours is a unique coalition 

12 of neighbors, environmentalists, educators and 

13 related professionals deeply concerned about our 

14 immediate regional, national and global 

15 environment.

16 Philadelphia's Eastwick community is a 

17 community of approximately 5,000 residents 

18 located in a 100 year flood plain confluent to 

19 the Schuylkill and Delaware Rivers and the Darby 

20 Creek, all of which are tidal to the Atlantic 

21 Ocean. 

22 As an urban community, arguably a coastal 

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1 neighborhood, Eastwick dodged a bullet during the 

2 onslaught of Hurricane Sandy. The threat of 

3 Sandy was so immediate to Eastwick that our 

4 mayor, the Honorable Michael Nutter, called for 

5 the complete evacuation of our beloved 

6 neighborhood.

7 Ladies and gentlemen, I am not a 

8 scientist; however, it is crystal clear to me 

9 that what occurred in the New Orleans Ninth Ward 

10 and in Eastwick's 40th Ward and what Sandy did to 

11 New Jersey and New York certainly suggests that 

12 our climate is changing.

13 If we, as stewards of the Earth, have 

14 altered/disrupted our air, water and land, then 

15 we must be strident to take the corrective 

16 measures necessary to repair and to safeguard our 

17 precious environment right now and for future 

18 generations. 

19 And I would like to have the members of 

20 the Eastwick team stand up. These are young 

21 people that have done incredible work in our 

22 neighborhoods in cleaning and conserving the 

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1 environment with their bare hands in some very 

2 nasty situations that even adults would not go 

3 near. God bless you all. 

4 The Eastwick Friends and Neighbors 

5 Coalition supports President Obama's Climate 

6 Action Plan and we urge you to support the plan, 

7 too. 

8 And I'll turn it over to you. 

9 MS. JEFFERSON: My name is Mya Jefferson, 

10 M-Y-A, J-E-F-F-E-R-S-O-N. I am a student of the 

11 Saul Agricultural School in Philadelphia. 

12 Initially, I want to thank President 

13 Obama for taking action to protect our future. 

14 Reducing carbon emissions through his Climate 

15 Action Plan and his encouraging clean energy 

16 offers a promising direction for the future.

17 As a young person, I want to have clean 

18 air, clean water and clean lands. I want clean 

19 green jobs and green technological careers to 

20 decrease unemployment while protecting the 

21 environment. I want a future that is 

22 sustainable. My generation did not create this 

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1 problem, but with your support, we can be part of 

2 the solution.

3 Thank you.

4 MS. CRAIG: Thank you both and thank you 

5 to all of you who volunteered.

6 And so I think you are our last speaker 

7 before lunch, so please join us.

8 MS. BASTIAN: N-I-C-O-L-A, B-A-S-T-I-A-N.

9 MS. CRAIG: And you may want to speak 

10 into the microphone so everyone can hear you, but 

11 I heard the spelling.

12 MS. BASTIAN: All right. I'm usually too 

13 loud for any public gathering, but I will use the 

14 mic.

15 Nicola Bastian is my name. I come from 

16 Millville, West Virginia, Jefferson County.

17 I have a speech prepared. I will hand it 

18 in. I will make it short to give you good people 

19 the gift of time which is probably just as 

20 precious as the gift of clean air these days.

21 I have prepared because I have read in 

22 order to understand these people who claim not to 

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1 believe that there is climate change.

2 I was trying to see what research they 

3 might use to make their point, which got me to 

4 the point that I said the last argument that they 

5 cannot refute is the acidification of the ocean 

6 that is measurable. That is not as complicated 

7 as the atmosphere with the water, steam, et 

8 cetera, et cetera.

9 I'm realizing there is so much incredible 

10 knowledge in this room, and I also envisioned it 

11 different. I thought there would be all these 

12 negative people telling all these negative 

13 stories, and that is why I had prepared my 

14 argument. 

15 I will leave it at the door. I will not 

16 make it now because you people amaze me in your 

17 caring. I've been sitting there watching you. 

18 You are not letting up listening. And with all 

19 that, what you have done in the past, that, to 

20 me, is unbelievable. I think I almost saw you 

21 cry at some point. 

22 So I only want to add two personal 

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1 experiences. I come originally from Germany. We 

2 have cleaned up our coal industry to the point 

3 that the women can hang out their laundry again 

4 because before it would come in blacker than they 

5 put it out; and number two, I was flying over 

6 Germany again this spring, and it just made 

7 visible what it's doing. Almost every roof has 

8 solar power. Sometimes the barns are huge 

9 covered with solar power. We know we can do it.

10 Thank you very, very, very much. And 

11 thanks for all of these people who came here. 

12 That is why I moved to America.

13 MS. CRAIG: Well, this concludes the 

14 morning public hearing. 

15 Thank you so much, especially for those 

16 of you who stayed for almost every minute and 

17 everyone who came from so far. We truly 

18 appreciate it. 

19 The session will be reconvened at 1:00 

20 with a new panel.

21 (Luncheon Recess taken to reconvene at 

22 1:00 p.m.)

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1 AFTERNOON SESSION

2 EPA PANEL 2

3 MR. BARRON: Good afternoon. My name is 

4 Alex Barron, and I'm one of the Chairs of today's 

5 public hearing. So thanks everyone for coming 

6 today. Please come in if you're filtering past 

7 the door.

8 Joining me on the panel this afternoon are 

9 Erich Eschmann and Chris Sherry. And we're here 

10 today to listen to your comments on two proposed 

11 rules to reduce carbon pollution from power 

12 plants. EPA announced both of these proposed 

13 rules on June 2nd, 2014. 

14 Power Plants are the largest source of 

15 carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 

16 roughly one-third of all domestic greenhouse gas 

17 emissions. 

18 The first rule we'll be talking about 

19 today is EPA's Proposed Clean Power Plan for 

20 Existing Power Plants. This proposal consists of 

21 two main parts: state specific goals to lower 

22 carbon pollution from power plants and guidelines

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1 to help states develop their plans to meet those 

2 goals.

3 This proposal gives states flexibility in 

4 determining how to meet their goals. States will 

5 choose what goes into their plans that show how 

6 they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 

7 their goals by 2030.

8 The second rule is EPA's Proposed Rule to 

9 Address Carbon Dioxide Emissions from Modified 

10 and Reconstructed Power Plants. This rule would 

11 set emissions limits for two groups of power 

12 plants: Those that make physical or operational 

13 changes that increase the plant's maximum 

14 achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 

15 that replace components to such an extent that 

16 the new components exceed 50 percent of the 

17 capital cost of an entirely new comparable 

18 facility.

19 If you would like more details on either of 

20 these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 

21 available near the registration desk.

22 Today's hearing is one of four public 

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1 hearings across the country this week on the two 

2 proposed rules. And we've had tremendous 

3 interest in each of these hearings, and I'd like 

4 to thank you for taking the time out of your day 

5 to come here and join us and share your comments. 

6 We really appreciate it.

7 We've had a lot of people signed up to speak 

8 today, and we want to hear from all of them, so 

9 before we get started, I'd like to go through a 

10 few housekeeping items and ground rules that will 

11 help make today's hearing run smoothly.

12 First, be sure, if you haven't already, that 

13 you've checked in at the registration desk even 

14 if you're not planning to speak today. And if

15 you are signed up to speak online or by phone but 

16 haven't told us that you're here, please step out 

17 to the registration desk and let the EPA staff 

18 know that you've arrived.

19 Second, if you're a speaker, you were given a 

20 room letter to which you were checked in, Room A 

21 or Room B. This is Room B. Are you in the right 

22 room? If not, now is a great time to switch -- a 

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1 little bit like when you've been told that the 

2 airplane you're on is not going to your intended 

3 destination, so please let us know if you need to 

4 be in the other room.

5 All right. So, here's how today's hearing 

6 will work: I will be calling up speakers in 

7 pairs. When your name is called, please come to 

8 the table at the front of the room. When I call 

9 on you to speak, please state your name and spell 

10 it for the court reporter. Your comments will be 

11 transcribed and included in the official record 

12 of comments on the proposed rule.

13 Each speaker will have five minutes to give 

14 comments. We have a light to help you know how 

15 much time you have left to speak which will be 

16 right over here. When the light turns from green 

17 to yellow, that means you have one minute 

18 remaining. When it turns red, that's a signal to 

19 wrap up your testimony. The light will flash red 

20 and beep when you have spoken for five minutes, 

21 and then it's time to stop.

22 When you're finished speaking, please remain 

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1 at the table until the person next to you has 

2 completed his or her testimony.

3 We are here to listen to you today; however, 

4 a panel member may ask you for -- ask you 

5 questions to clarify your comments. I will then 

6 call up the next pair of speakers and so on and 

7 so on throughout the afternoon.

8 If you've brought a written copy of your 

9 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 

10 registration desk before you leave today.

11 Finally, because of the large number of 

12 people who have signed up to speak today and to 

13 be fair to everyone, we're going to have to 

14 strictly enforce the time limit just so that 

15 everyone has an opportunity.

16 If you have additional comments you would 

17 like to make, you can submit them in writing. I 

18 just want to assure everyone that EPA gives as 

19 much consideration to comments that we receive in 

20 writing as we do to comments that we receive at 

21 public hearings like this one. So if you have 

22 more than the five minutes that you would like to 

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1 say, please submit it in writing; and your 

2 comments will be reviewed.

3 There's still plenty of time to get written 

4 comments in, and there are comment cards 

5 available at the registration desk. Comments 

6 must be received by October 16th, 2014. We will 

7 put any written comments submitted today in the 

8 official docket for the proposed rule.

9 Instructions for submitting written comments 

10 in other ways are available at materials near the 

11 registration desk.

12 We're scheduled to go until 8 p.m. tonight. 

13 We'll take a dinner break so everyone can get 

14 something to eat. Right now the lunch break has 

15 concluded and the dinner break is scheduled for 

16 5:00 o'clock. In addition we may take occasional 

17 short breaks throughout the day as needed. We'll 

18 keep you posted as the day goes on.

19 If you have any questions during the day, 

20 please see the staff at the registration desk, 

21 and someone will try to help you. That will help 

22 us to keep the momentum going here in the room.

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1 Finally, I want to ask each of you to please 

2 be respectful to everyone who speaks today. We 

3 have people with a wide variety of views in the 

4 audience, and we want to hear from all of you. 

5 So -- so we can do that and to be fair, we ask 

6 that everyone listen quietly. Even applause can 

7 slow things down, and we want to hear from 

8 everyone who has signed up to speak.

9 So thanks again for taking time today to 

10 share your comments on the proposed rules, and I 

11 think we'll get under way.

12 So the first two speakers are Frank Sturges 

13 and Ralph Grove, if you could please take a seat 

14 up there. And just by way of heads up, the next 

15 two names are Michelle Freeman and Colin Reese.

16 So I think we'll start with Frank Sturges.

17 MR. STURGES: My name is Frank Sturges, 

18 spelled F-R-A-N-K, last name S-T-U-R-G-E-S. And 

19 today I’m going to be reading testimony on behalf 

20 of Robert D. Brown, R-O-B-E-R-T, middle initial 

21 D, last name Brown, B-R-O-W-N.

22 Good day, I am speaking from testimony 

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1 prepared by Robert D. Brown. Dr. Brown holds a 

2 Ph.D. in wildlife Biology and Wildlife 

3 Management. He recently retired as Dean from the 

4 College of Natural Resources of N.C. State 

5 University, has served as President of The 

6 Wildlife Society, served as Education Chair of 

7 the Boone and Crocket Club, and currently serves 

8 on the Board of Directors of the North Carolina 

9 Wildlife Federation.

10 This month our news media abounds with the 

11 debate over the new rules posted by the 

12 Environmental Protection Agency governing carbon 

13 pollution by existing power plants and the Clean 

14 Power Plan. The administration is promoting 

15 these rules as a means of improving air quality 

16 and human health, yet somewhat downplaying the 

17 impact on climate change. Apparently we still 

18 have climate change deniers in both our state and 

19 federal legislatures who will oppose these new 

20 rules. But that accelerated global warming is 

21 happening, and that we humans caused it is 

22 irrefutable.

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1 We've all read about the impacts of climate 

2 change on sea level rise, warming and 

3 acidification of the ocean, droughts, floods, 

4 wildfires, and more severe and unpredictable 

5 storms. Dr. Brown's daughter-in-law likes to 

6 call this Global Weirding. 

7 But wildlife biologists in the field are also 

8 now detailing the current and future impacts on 

9 our wildlife resources.

10 The North Carolina Wildlife Federation and 

11 National Wildlife Federation recently hosted the 

12 Wildlife Habitat and Networking roundtable in 

13 Huntersville, North Carolina. The speakers 

14 pointed out that North Carolina wildlife, from 

15 fresh water fish like trout to migratory birds to 

16 coastal animals like sea turtles are all under 

17 threat from climate change. One biologist 

18 commented, wildlife in North Carolina and across 

19 the country are suffering from heat waves, 

20 drought, and flooding brought on by heavy 

21 rainfall. And these weather events threaten

22 wildlife and wildlife habitat as well as our 

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1 sportsman heritage.

2 NWF has produced a series of booklets on 

3 current and future impact of global warming on 

4 North American birds, fish, and big game animals 

5 which are available at nwf.org.

6 Much of the focus of the meeting, however, 

7 was on steps being taken to help wildlife survive 

8 and adapt to increasing temperatures. Erin 

9 McCombs, Natural Resources Scientist and 

10 Associate Director of Southeast Conservation for 

11 American Rivers stated, North Carolina's rivers 

12 and the aquatic species that live in them are 

13 already suffering the impacts of climate change. 

14 That is why the state of North Carolina and 

15 American Rivers are working together to remove 

16 dams where appropriate to improve resilience to 

17 climate change in species like trout and species 

18 like otter. She indicated that removing dams 

19 gives aquatic fish and mammals species more 

20 flexibility in their ability to move to colder 

21 waters when temperatures rise.

22 Ann Berry Somers, Senior Lecturer, noted that 

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1 -- noted author and herpetologist at UNC -

2 Greensboro and Member of the North Carolina 

3 Wildlife Resources Commission Non-game Wildlife 

4 Advisory Committee said, the new State Wildlife 

5 Action Plan is a key step towards protecting our 

6 state's wildlife from climate change. The new 

7 plan covers actions on climate adaptation such as 

8 wildlife corridors and coastal ecosystem 

9 restoration, which the state and conservation 

10 groups can use as a roadmap to protect our 

11 wildlife from climate change. The NC Wildlife 

12 Action Plan is available at 

13 ncwildlife.org/plan.aspx.

14 The fact that these professional wildlife 

15 biologists are seeing detriments to the very 

16 existence of the wildlife and wildlife habitats 

17 is compelling. These projects are expensive and 

18 stop gap efforts to mitigate the impacts of 

19 climate change. It points to the fact that we 

20 need to begin to cut to the root cause of climate 

21 change which lies in the reduction of greenhouse 

22 gas emissions. These new EPA rules are a major 

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1 step towards action to reduce carbon pollution at 

2 the national level. They are not perfect. 

3 And both industry and some conservation 

4 groups are on record as opposing them. Many 

5 industry representatives say the rules will cost 

6 jobs and increase the cost of electricity. 

7 Economic pundits say it is hard for the economic 

8 costs and benefits of the new rules, but there 

9 will be a shift in energy economics and jobs as 

10 the country gradually shifts from a carbon-based 

11 energy economy towards power by solar and wind 

12 power and other forms of renewable energy.

13 Biologists in the field report that our 

14 streams are warming, that floods, droughts, 

15 wildfires, and severe storms are reducing 

16 wildlife habitat, that out of control pests like 

17 fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes are impacting our 

18 wild animals and that bark beetles are chewing 

19 our forests.

20 In North Carolina global warming threatens 

21 our parks for game animals, our non-game 

22 endangered species, and our recreational 

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1 industries in our mountains and in the Outer 

2 Banks which in North Carolina, outdoor recreation 

3 generates $19.2 billion of consumer spending, 1.3 

4 billion in taxes and supports 192,000 animals.

5 Dr. Brown and the professional wildlife 

6 community, and the North Carolina Wildlife 

7 Federation support the adoption of the Clean 

8 Power Plan and the associated rules. Thank you.

9 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. And you 

10 mentioned a number of other documents. You 

11 should feel free to submit those with your 

12 written comments.

13 MR. STURGES: I will leave a written copy 

14 which has a little bit more detailed as well.

15 MR. BARRON: All right. Thank you very much.

16 MR. STURGES: Thank you.

17 MR. BARRON: And our next speaker today is 

18 Ralph Grove.

19 MR. GROVE: R-A-L-P-H, G-R-O-V-E. I am from 

20 Harrisonburg, Virginia, where I'm a volunteer 

21 with the Sierra Club..

22 My family and I strongly support the proposed 

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1 EPA rules to regulate carbon pollution from power 

2 plants. Global climate change presents a 

3 significant threat to our health, our 

4 communities, our economy, and our future in 

5 general. Sea level rise, droughts, extreme 

6 weather, disease, and disruptions to food supply 

7 are all consequences of climate change and have 

8 the potential to inflict catastrophic damage in 

9 this country and around the world.

10 If we expect to pass on to future generations 

11 the quality of life that we take for granted, we 

12 must also pass on a healthy ecosystem and planet. 

13 So it's imperative that we act now to mitigate 

14 the effects of climate change by reducing 

15 greenhouse gas emissions, including methane and 

16 carbon dioxide from all sources.

17 Since electrical power generation is the 

18 leading source of greenhouse gas emissions in the 

19 country, it makes sense to start there by 

20 requiring a reduction in carbon emitted from 

21 power plants.

22 The proposed rules are a step in the right 

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1 direction, but ultimately we have to go even 

2 further if we expect to prevent serious climate 

3 disruption by greatly increasing energy 

4 efficiency and expanding development of renewable 

5 energy sources such as solar and offshore wind.

6 My friend Bruce and I drove up from the 

7 Shenandoah Valley today. I could tell you first 

8 hand that we see the effects of the power plants 

9 and their emissions where we live. Smoke that 

10 rolls in from West Virginia and the Midwest 

11 dirties the air. It kills the trees in the 

12 mountains, and it kills the fish in the streams. 

13 And we experience that on a day-to-day basis and 

14 have for a long time.

15 So we appreciate all that the EPA is doing. 

16 We wish you success and we'll do everything we 

17 can to support you. Thank you.

18 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much for taking 

19 the time to come here today. Thanks to both of 

20 you. And our next two speakers are Michelle 

21 Freeman and Colin Reese. 

22 You can leave any written testimony with the 

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1 registration desk. That's the easiest way to do 

2 it.

3 So if Michelle Freeman and Colin Reese are 

4 here? And the next two names I have are Jonathan 

5 Arnon and Larry Roussell, so -- and we have Colin 

6 Reese?

7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can someone else move 

8 up if someone is not here?

9 MR. BARRON: I'll -- I'm just going to try 

10 and keep track of missing people separately, and 

11 then we'll bring the next folks up just a little 

12 bit sooner as a result of that. Okay? That 

13 should work. Great.

14 So, Michelle, you can go ahead.

15 MS. FREEMAN: Good afternoon, my name is 

16 Michelle Freeman, and I am from Philadelphia, 

17 Pennsylvania. 

18 I have the misfortune of being born with 

19 asthma and eczema. These -- there is no cure 

20 that we know of for asthma. And there are just 

21 simple, every day disadvantages to having asthma, 

22 and they are coupled with the emissions of 

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1 certain pollutants in the air.

2 In the morning I try to turn on the 

3 television somewhere around 5:30 and 6:00 so that 

4 I can hear the weather report. There have been 

5 many days where the weather report, as you know, 

6 says people with respiratory problems should not 

7 come outside. And unfortunately, for me, my 

8 background is mortgage lending underwriting. I 

9 underwrite mortgage loans, and I have a real 

10 estate license. I started performing real estate 

11 in 1986. And when I was a little girl, there 

12 were many houses that were fueled by coal. And 

13 those emittents would come in through the house, 

14 and they would come out through the vents, and I 

15 would suffer severe asthma attacks, and I would 

16 show up in the emergency room quite often.

17 As I grew, I understood that there are other 

18 things that create those things such as smokers, 

19 people that for some reason just have to smoke 

20 cigarettes, and they typically just smoke them 

21 wherever they can. And we have those issues to 

22 deal with as well.

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1 I have to take public transportation to and 

2 from work, and sometimes I'll see a bus coming. 

3 And the fumes greet me at the bus stop, and I 

4 have to find some type of way to shield myself 

5 from them. And sometimes it's just quite 

6 impossible to do so.

7 The ground level ozone, the toxic home smog, 

8 ozone triggers -- and it triggers asthma attacks, 

9 and it makes the asthma worse. Then you move 

10 along the street, and you will have your sulfur 

11 dioxide which is a respiratory irritant, and that 

12 is associated in the onset of asthma. Sulfur 

13 dioxide is produced when coal and crude are 

14 burned together.

15 Then we have -- I'm from North Philadelphia. 

16 On holidays people like to come out and they like 

17 to burn -- they like to cook their food on the 

18 grill. And when people are burning coals in the 

19 grill, and they like to get up and do that early 

20 in the morning, I have to make sure my windows 

21 are closed because I'm greeted by those fumes as 

22 they come in the window in the morning.

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1 And you add to those just particular matter 

2 such as cleaning household products and just dirt 

3 and dust the trees collect, and I'd like to sit 

4 under the tree for shade sometimes, and the wind 

5 blows and the pollen and the ragweed and that 

6 kind of thing blows on me. And I can't do that 

7 anymore.

8 My eczema is triggered by many things. Sun 

9 has something to do with it. The sun, as we 

10 know, is coming closer to the earth, and it burns 

11 some of these emittents that we have put into our 

12 environment.

13 And then we have the nitrogen oxide which is 

14 a gas emitted from tailpipes and power plants. 

15 And sometimes I actually perform appraisals in 

16 the Scranton areas. And I remember driving up 

17 through the coal mountain areas and the -- it was 

18 very difficult to breathe. I thank God for air 

19 conditioning and the ability to close the windows 

20 and get some type of air there.

21 Because we have many older heaters and they 

22 have not been cleaned out properly, they collect 

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1 during the summer and then we turn them on 

2 without having them being serviced, and then we 

3 just emit all those pollutants in the air again. 

4 So having to deal with just the everyday energy 

5 pollutants -- we add to it when we have our 

6 trucks drive through that have not been properly 

7 serviced, and they drive through our areas, and 

8 our children are restricted to certain areas 

9 simply because we just didn't service our 

10 mechanicals properly.

11 So it would be very important to millions of 

12 people suffering from asthma -- and then there is 

13 the ability to develop asthma in the older age. 

14 So on behalf of all asthmatics and people who 

15 have respiratory problems or other --

16 particularly COPD -- it would be extremely 

17 important for us to try to lower the emittance 

18 into our environment.

19 Thank you for the opportunity to share that.

20 MR. BARRON: Thank you for taking the time to 

21 come here today.

22 And the next two names I have here are 

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1 Jonathan Arnon and Larry Roussell.

2 I'm going to let the folks at the door know 

3 about the other names. So I have Jonathan Arnon 

4 and Larry Roussell. I'm also still looking for -

5 - are you wanting to speak?

6 MR. ARNON: Jonathan Arnon.

7 MR. BARRON: Oh, great. Thank you very much. 

8 You can leave hard copies with the folks at the 

9 registration desk. So you can just go ahead and 

10 have a seat. Yes, right there.

11 MR. ROUSSELL: Thank you very much.

12 My name is G. I have no written comments.

13 MR. BARRON: That's quite all right.

14 MR. ROUSSELL: My comments will be brief.

15 I'm a former math teacher and solar 

16 installer, and so I was a solar installer simply 

17 because I knew that it was a good idea way back 

18 in the '70's. It's been obvious to me that 

19 there's just way too much pollution for many 

20 years, most of my 71 years I've been aware of 

21 this. 

22 And the fact that it's now become a climate 

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1 change issue is just adding fuel to the fire. I 

2 do know that it will take a hundred years to 

3 reverse it if we stop everything now, so we're 

4 stuck whether we like it or not. It seems only 

5 the act of an idiot not to change the way we 

6 behave. If the obvious behavior that we have now 

7 is causing so much trouble -- I don't need list 

8 all of the things that all of us observe. It's 

9 obvious that the climate is changing. It's 

10 obvious we need to do something, and that's my 

11 statement.

12 MR. BARRON: Well thank you very much.

13 MR. ARNON: Hello, my name is Dr. Jonathan 

14 Arnon. I recently retired after a career as a 

15 systems engineer.

16 MR. BARRON: Could you -- pardon me. Could 

17 you spell your name for the --

18 MR. ARNON: Sure. J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N, 

19 A-R-N-O-N. I recently retired after a career as 

20 a systems engineer for a major defense 

21 contractor. In my student days I worked for two 

22 of the pioneers of climate research, Dr. Suki 

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1 Manabe at NOAA and Dr. Jim Hansen at NASA.

2 Today these scientists are known for their 

3 warnings of the dangers of climate change. Who 

4 can forget the Bush administration's efforts to 

5 silence Dr. Hansen? But when I worked for them, 

6 they were just starting to develop the 

7 mathematical models and computer simulations of 

8 Earth's atmosphere. In the 1970's, 

9 supercomputers built by IBM and Amdahl became 

10 powerful enough to run these massive simulations 

11 for students like me to program them. Dr. 

12 Manabe's equations modeled the atmosphere, the 

13 oceans, and the interactions between them at the 

14 surface. That last part is the most complex. 

15 Dr. Hansen sought to find the unifying principles 

16 that could explain atmospheric phenomena on every 

17 planet, including Earth.

18 These scientists didn't start their research 

19 with preconceived notions or a point of view to 

20 advocate. They ran their models and drew 

21 conclusions from the results. I remember one of 

22 Dr. Manabe's experiments. He flattened the 

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1 Himalayan Mountains to observe the effect on 

2 monsoons. Don't try that at home. After years 

3 of study, they both concluded that increased 

4 carbon dioxide caused by burning fuels, 

5 deforestation, and destruction of aquatic life 

6 from pollution, would cause harmful changes to 

7 Earth's climate.

8 The rules we're discussing today won't solve 

9 these problems, but they are an important step. 

10 And they give our country credibility in 

11 international forums. When we talk to Brazil 

12 about deforestation or China about their 

13 pollution that's reaching our west coast, it 

14 helps to be able to say America's doing its part. 

15 Thank you.

16 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. If you 

17 could please make sure that the registration desk 

18 has a copy of your comments?

19 MR. ARNON: Thank you.

20 MR. BARRON: I'm just going to go back and 

21 check in to see if Colin Reese is in the room. 

22 (No response.)

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1 MR. BARRON: Moving on, the next names are 

2 Joe Cook and Regina Neblott.

3 MS. NEBLOTT: Good afternoon.

4 MR. COOK: Good afternoon.

5 MR. BARRON: Please go ahead.

6 MR. COOK: Hello, my name is Joe Cook. I'm a 

7 residential homeowner in Norfolk, Virginia, and 

8 let me give you the spelling of my name. It's J9 O-E, C-O-O-K. 

10 MR. BARRON: Thank you.

11 MR. COOK: And I'm Clean Energy Chair for the 

12 Sierra Club's Chesapeake Bay Group. And I've 

13 come today to speak out strongly in favor of the 

14 EPA's Clean Power Plan and urge its adoption with 

15 some amendments that I'll call out later to 

16 benefit the people and the planet.

17 To that end I advocate that EPA accelerate 

18 the timetable from 2030 to 2020 for reaching not 

19 just a 30 percent but a 35 to 40 percent 

20 reduction below 2005 carbon pollution levels, 

21 especially since we've already made some 

22 progress, as I understand maybe 15 percent. Half 

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1 of that though has already been met.

2 This proposal will better protect public 

3 health, move the United States toward a cleaner 

4 environment, and fight climate change while 

5 supplying Americans with reliable and affordable 

6 power.

7 I wanted to speak to you from a personal 

8 perspective as one who lives in a coastal area 

9 already at risk of flooding from sea level rise 

10 and severe weather events. Both of these factors 

11 are linked to climate change and global warming, 

12 largely caused by carbon pollution from existing 

13 dirty fossil fuel burning power plants.

14 One such coal fired plant operates just 

15 12 miles from my home and belches soot and 

16 aerosols of mercury, arsenic, chromium, nickel, 

17 sodium dioxide, and nitrogen oxides, pollution 

18 that adversely affects my health. It contributes 

19 to my suffering from sinusitis and a lupus 

20 compromised immune system. 

21 Carbon pollution from the over 1,100 

22 currently unregulated coal plants like the one 

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1 nearby threatens communities across this nation, 

2 especially high risk coastal cities like Norfolk, 

3 the second most at risk behind New Orleans in 

4 this country. Those plants and the poisonous 

5 toxins spewed from their smokestacks cost 

6 taxpayers billions of dollars each year by 

7 worsening climate disruption, increasing health 

8 care costs, and causing premature deaths, none of 

9 which are factored into the cost per kilowatt 

10 hour for coal plants.

11 A February 2011 report entitled Mining 

12 Coal, Mounting Costs: The life cycle 

13 consequences of coal was led by associate 

14 director of the Center for Health and the Global 

15 Environment at Harvard Medical School, Dr. Paul 

16 Epstein. That report found that accounting for 

17 the full costs of coal power would double or 

18 triple its price from 12 cents per kilowatt hour 

19 to 24 to 36 cents per kilowatt hour, which makes 

20 it more costly than wind, solar, or geothermal. 

21 The study released in the Annals of the New York 

22 Academy of Sciences tallied the economic, health 

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1 and environmental costs associated with each 

2 stage in the life cycle of coal -- extraction, 

3 transportation, processing, and combustion -- and 

4 estimated those costs borne by the public at 

5 large may go as high as $500 billion per year.

6 Reducing carbon pollution from power 

7 plants would not only save billions of dollars 

8 each year, it will save lives. In fact, for 

9 every dollar invested under the Plan, we'll see 

10 roughly seven dollars of return in health 

11 benefits. The plan will spur innovation, 

12 accelerate the clean energy economy, and create 

13 American jobs. Just the build-out of Virginia's 

14 offshore wind industry could produce over 10,000 

15 good, local, high-paying jobs. According to the 

16 Department of Energy, the potential offshore wind 

17 resource off the lower 48 states exceeds the 

18 country's entire electricity demand. Developing 

19 all of that area would add tens of thousands more 

20 jobs.

21 Therefore, I and the Sierra Club urge

22 adoption of the Clean Power Plan at an 

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1 accelerated pace while strengthening it in three 

2 attainable ways: bigger carbon pollutions as I 

3 mentioned before, from 20 to 35 to 40 percent; 

4 renewables and energy efficiency that can meet 

5 new standards through renewable energy and 

6 efficiency, the fastest, cleanest, and most 

7 effective path without increasing our use of 

8 dirty and dangerous energy sources like nuclear 

9 or natural gas. Empower affected workers and 

10 communities -- let's not forget about them. 

11 Ensure that affected communities are engaged 

12 throughout the process and that public resources 

13 are available to help workers and communities as 

14 they make the transition to a clean energy 

15 economy.

16 Let's move beyond coal to clean energy 

17 while saving lives, money, and Mother Earth. 

18 Thank you.

19 MR. BARRON: Thank you. And you 

20 mentioned a number of studies in your testimony, 

21 a Harvard Medical School study. So you would be 

22 welcome to submit those for the record if you 

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1 wanted.

2 MR. COOK: Yeah, to give them outside?

3 MR. BARRON: At the registration desk.

4 MR. COOK: I will. Thank you.

5 MR. BARRON: Please go ahead.

6 MS. NEBLOTT: Okay. Tuesday, July 29th, 

7 2014. My name is Regina Neblott, and I am the 

8 mother of three children -- one son, two 

9 daughters. I am also a grandmother of four 

10 grandchildren -- two grandsons and two 

11 granddaughters who keep me very busy.

12 MR. BARRON: Could I ask you to spell 

13 your name for the record just so we make sure we 

14 get it right?

15 MS. NEBLOTT: Sure. 

16 MR. BARRON: Go ahead.

17 MS. NEBLOTT: R-E-G-I-N-A, B-period, N-E18 B-L-O-T-T.

19 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

20 MS. NEBLOTT: I was asked by the Sierra 

21 Club to come to speak at the EPA hearing and 

22 climate change rally. True, we do need a plan 

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1 -- a plan for clear air. Where I live in the 

2 Commonwealth of Richmond, Virginia, myself and 

3 other citizens were realizing that there were 

4 planes flying around our apartments and homes 

5 where we live and putting chemicals in our 

6 airspace. So some of us called the airport in 

7 our community and was told that the airport did 

8 not keep flight plans for private planes.

9 It is our opinion that citizens of the 

10 Commonwealth of Richmond, Virginia, that the 

11 airport should keep flight plans of every plane 

12 that flies in the Commonwealth of Richmond, 

13 Virginia, airspace or at least someone should. 

14 Since this was reported to the news and airports, 

15 it's still happening but not like before.

16 Environmental Protection also means 

17 protecting human life. I live in the community 

18 of Richmond, Virginia, where the poor, the 

19 seniors are being abused in senior high rises and 

20 the Richmond homes and apartments every day. And 

21 I, myself, was threatened if I came to 

22 Washington, D.C., today to speak today, they 

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1 would run the van I was riding in off the road; 

2 but I came anyway. Thank the Lord.

3 I have -- I have been in electric shock. 

4 Electric shocks pushed through my body and 

5 there's the chemical smells coming through my air 

6 conditioning vents and massive heat pushed on me. 

7 Sometimes the air coming through the AC vents was 

8 so cold and felt as if my body was frozen. When 

9 I reported this to apartment management, nothing 

10 was done. When I reported it to the Mayor's 

11 office and left messages for him asking what was 

12 happening, nothing was done.

13 These things have -- these things I have 

14 listed are taking place all over the City of 

15 Richmond. And for some it's a mighty big 

16 inconvenience while others are living in danger.

17 Yes, we all need clean air. We also, as 

18 Americans, need to do something to help sustain 

19 the human life, not just in the Commonwealth of 

20 Richmond, Virginia, or other countries but all 

21 over America.

22 And I thank you all for listening to me 

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1 today, and I came here, and I don't know what's 

2 going to happen when I go home, but I came here 

3 because I've got grandchildren. And what I've 

4 been through, I do not want them to have to go 

5 through when they get to be my age.

6 MR. BARRON: Thank you for thoughts and 

7 for your words today. 

8 We have Ellis James and Marjorie Leach9 Parker next. And while they're making their way 

10 up, the next two names just so you can get ready 

11 are Clinton Cobb, Trisha Sheehan, and Thomas 

12 Burkett.

13 MR. JAMES: Good afternoon, gentlemen. My 

14 name is Ellis W. James, E-L-L-I-S, middle initial 

15 W, the last name Biblically speaking, 

16 J-A-M-E-S.

17 MR. BARRON: Thank you.

18 MR. JAMES: It's interesting. You have 

19 just heard eloquent testimony already in this 

20 hearing. I'm a young fellow who believes in the 

21 KISS theory. I know you know the expression.

22 The plan, the Clean Power Plan is an 

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1 opportunity that we must take now. We are way 

2 beyond the time where we could do little tweaks 

3 and ask the power companies to please do their 

4 best to protect our children and our 

5 grandchildren. We are losing children and 

6 grandchildren, not to mention young people like 

7 me, because we are being hammered with the 

8 pollution from the power plants.

9 Now, I wish my friends who operate those 

10 plants no malice or harm. I know they have a 

11 tradition, and I know they have problems, too; 

12 but please don't tell me that these people can't 

13 do a better job as outlined by the 376 pages --

14 yes, I went to the library and pulled it up. 

15 The outline given by EPA is an excellent 

16 beginning to try to do more effectively the job 

17 that needs to be done to protect our citizens. I 

18 noted with interest that in the plan it discusses 

19 the calculations that the states can make and the 

20 building blocks that were enumerated in that part 

21 of the plan. I would recommend highly to you 

22 those building blocks. They say it all. I don't 

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1 need to repeat it here.

2 It is, in my opinion, time for us to stop 

3 beating up on EPA and start listening to the 

4 scientific facts that are laid before the public 

5 -- all of the public in the United States, 

6 including the denials of climate change. Those 

7 people need protection, too.

8 We have the opportunity at this moment to 

9 be able to do something that this country has 

10 been a long time coming to, and that is to more 

11 efficiently, effectively, and honestly evaluate 

12 how we can protect the public health of our 

13 citizens. And I would highly recommend that, 

14 too.

15 For those of you who have not had the 

16 opportunity to read the 376 pages, I commend them 

17 to you. Actually, knowing a little something 

18 about the subject as a proud member of the Sierra 

19 Club, as well as a Norfolk Environmental 

20 Commissioner from the City of Norfolk, Virginia, 

21 I have some knowledge of what the implications of 

22 this are, and I would urge us to support the plan 

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1 without equivocation. Thank you, gentlemen.

2 MR. BARRON: Thanks for making it up from 

3 Norfolk. Please go ahead and spell your name for 

4 the reporter. Thank you u.

5 MR. LEACH-PARKER: Good afternoon. My 

6 name is Marjorie Leach-Parker, M-A-R-J-O-R-I-E, 

7 L-E-A-C-H, hyphen, P-A-R-K-E-R.

8 I sit here this afternoon not as a 

9 business owner or someone that represents any 

10 special group. I do volunteer with the Sierra 

11 Club, but I'm sitting here today as an elderly 

12 person, which was mentioned as one of the groups 

13 most affected, as a grandmother, young children. 

14 My grandson was born -- grandson was born 20 

15 years ago, but oh, wow, my great grandson was 

16 born in January, so he's just coming to this 

17 earth. And I'd like to think that he will have a 

18 chance to grow up in an environment that is free 

19 of all these pollution substances that we have 

20 today and he will be able to walk outside and 

21 breathe. 

22 So I would have told these sci-fi new 

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1 visionaries that says, oh, this is what the 

2 future is going to look like. The scary thing is 

3 when you look at some of those things and you 

4 think about what's going on in the world today, 

5 and you're going, oh, my, it's right around the 

6 corner. The day when people are afraid to go 

7 outside because they can't breathe; they have to 

8 have a mask on to be able to breathe. Oh, they 

9 have to drink bottled water because there's 

10 nothing running out of the fountain and God 

11 forbid you try and go down to the ocean or to a 

12 lake or anything like that and just dip your 

13 hands in the water.

14 By the way, I do live out in Virginia 

15 Beach. So I think about, you know, my great 

16 grandson not being able to walk on the beaches 

17 because of the rising water, not being able to 

18 put his feet into the water because of pollution.

19 I do support, as a grandmother, as an 

20 elderly person, the proposed EPA goals. I would, 

21 however, suggest that we try and move the 

22 timeline up. This is 2014. Why wait till 2020 

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1 or 2030? Let's start now, and let's push as hard 

2 as we can to get rid of some of these plagues 

3 that are making our environment unlivable.

4 And yes, we need to make existing coal 

5 plants more efficient. My understanding is that, 

6 you know, a lot of coal plants didn't have to 

7 worry about the rules that were put into effect 

8 because they were already, you know, in 

9 existence. We need to make them go back right 

10 now and come up to standards right now, not 10 

11 years from now, right now.

12 Then the same thing with the gas place. 

13 Make them come up to standards right now. Don't 

14 wait and say, well, you've got 5 years; you've 

15 got 10 years. Make them start right now. It's -

16 - this didn't happen overnight, and it's not 

17 going to be fixed overnight. So we need to start 

18 right now making things better.

19 The other thing, of course, is to 

20 increase the use of renewable energy. Oh, my 

21 gosh, nothing could be more important. I sit and 

22 I say all the time, and I read a lot, and like I 

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1 said, I'm a sci-fi buff, so I read everything and 

2 -- but I'm looking at the real reality. I'm 

3 looking at countries all over the world, and I'm 

4 looking at their renewable energy, things that 

5 they are doing. I'm looking at other countries 

6 that are so far ahead of us when it comes to 

7 clean energy. And, you know, I'm sort of old, 

8 so, you know, '50s, '60's, you know, I remember 

9 that stuff, when the United States used to be 

10 number one in a lot of these things. Now here we 

11 are, almost at the bottom. And one of the most 

12 important things of our lifetime if there is no 

13 environment, then there is no -- there are no 

14 humans. There is no species. We're old -- so 

15 this is very important.

16 So I support what you're doing. I urge 

17 you to push, push, push it forward and let's get 

18 it done a little quicker. Thank you so very 

19 much.

20 MR. BARRON: Thank you for taking the 

21 time to come today.

22 Next up, Trisha Sheehan and Thomas 

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1 Burkett. And I noticed there's a couple of 

2 people standing on the wall. You can feel free 

3 to find a seat if you'd like one. 

4 And then next up will be Susan Bonney and 

5 Tim Whitcomb.

6 MS. SHEEHAN: I actually have a banner to 

7 present to the EPA along with my testimony. Can 

8 I do that now and not have it cut into my five 

9 minutes?

10 MR. BARRON: Sure, you can --

11 MS. SHEEHAN: Okay. So, and I -- can I 

12 have some people join me?

13 MR. BARRON: Thank you. We can just take 

14 a quick look at it here and then --

15 MS. SHEEHAN: So this is a sign that we 

16 had children from all over the country 

17 -- it's full -- with their handprints in 

18 recognition of the Clean Power Plan, and we 

19 support the EPA's work that they've done since we 

20 know that they've done a lot of hard work to get 

21 the plan where it is now and this is just to show 

22 our support and to say please consider our 

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1 children's future when you are finalizing these 

2 rules and to make them as strong as possible. So 

3 we just want to thank you from our -- the bottom 

4 of our hearts. Thank you.

5 MR. BARRON: Thank you.

6 MS. SHEEHAN: This is for you guys.

7 MR. BARRON: I'm not sure what the 

8 procedures are for docketing banners, but we'll 

9 work it out if you leave it at the registration 

10 desk. Thank you.

11 We'll scan it somehow.

12 MS. SHEEHAN: Oh, I'm sorry.

13 MR. BARRON: And do we have Thomas 

14 Burkett? Thank you.

15 MR. BURKETT: Hello, I'm Thomas Burkett. 

16 That's T-H-O-M-A-S, B-U-R-K-E-T-T.

17 I came here today from Richmond, 

18 Virginia. I'm speaking as the Director of 

19 Virginia River Healers. Virginia River Healers 

20 operates as a citizen directing independently 

21 monitoring soil and water testing facility for 

22 concerned Virginians dealing with soil, water, 

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1 and air toxicity issues. The VRH is producing 

2 public documents and data through specific 

3 testing and analyzing that are not otherwise 

4 available to the public.

5 At this point the VRH has put out coal 

6 ash analysis reports from various Dominion Power 

7 coal ash ponds and landfills. The documents are 

8 made available online at virginiariverhealers.com 

9 and you can pull it down and make comments.

10 The VRH also provided these coal ash 

11 samples to inorganic scientists at universities 

12 along Virginia with the hope of fingerprinting 

13 material and by fingerprinting the samples the 

14 toxicity in residents' water wells and watersheds 

15 can possibly trace to Dominion's leeching ponds 

16 and landfills scattered across the state.

17 In 2005 the four string of hurricanes 

18 which has devastated Florida and the Caribbean 

19 leaving more than 2,000 Haitians dead and 

20 thousands of humans homeless -- the usual 

21 response: God, you made your point, you're all 

22 powerful and change is coming. The glory period 

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1 of tolerant environmental enlightenment that bred 

2 a post-environmental state. Post3 environmentalism is a hybrid form of 

4 environmentalism of the rising sell of global 

5 economy and a special mix of business that 

6 rationalized the future of our environmental 

7 actions meaning more resource extraction and 

8 energy development.

9 This new environmental enlightenment 

10 with business identified itself as a solution to 

11 climate change. Environmentalism then became a 

12 point of the new economic development by the 

13 climate and for economic revenue for potential 

14 business growth and development. Post15 environmentalism has continued to ignore the 

16 social injustices involved with climate change 

17 and industrial displacement. Ultimately, the 

18 promise of national economic growth became the 

19 primary reason the campaign for [inaudible].

20 But with -- this industrialism has 

21 continued to develop because of the laissez-faire 

22 integrating the structure of the energy industry 

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1 and capitalistic economists for its foundation.

2 The constant fluctuation of cultural 

3 intelligibilities and current hold on developing 

4 environmental problems are interacting toward a 

5 state of balance between an idealized global 

6 environmental initiative and the loss of human 

7 dignity.

8 In early January there were 18,000 

9 gallons of NCHN waste filling the tanks of 

10 Freedom Industries' chemical facility who work 

11 directly into the area, the Delaware River, the 

12 fresh water source of residents and citizens in 

13 Charleston, West Virginia, and the Greater Basin 

14 was turned into a hazardous mixture of chemicals 

15 testing above the DEP safety standards as 

16 residents continued to live with the polluted 

17 wells and the government that didn't ensure the 

18 proper regulation and oversight to prevent 

19 disaster.

20 As the clean-up continues the Freedom 

21 Industries' tanks continue to show in line with 

22 the town of Charlestown, West Virginia; however, 

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1 at this point the take on a different 

2 psychological implication, but the future of 

3 environmentalism is not just a conversation of

4 environmental infamy but an industry burdening 

5 population of people that are being subjected and 

6 displaced by industry.

7 I wanted to open to talk about how 

8 political rationale is a form of post-environment 

9 where human rights are compromised. 

10 Environmental dispossession is both physical and 

11 psychological abuse of human rights. Being 

12 dispossessed refers to being in a state of 

13 feeling disowned and rejected by powers of 

14 cultural intelligibility.

15 Through the political framework of this 

16 environmentalism industry has been given the 

17 highest capital power. As cultural 

18 intelligibility is ordered through its industrial 

19 power, industries we will construct a legitimacy 

20 through the use of land and potentially 

21 dispossessed people that live near industrial 

22 property. This act of disposition turns people 

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1 into illegitimate subjects and second-class 

2 citizens.

3 Disposition originally refers to the 

4 practice of land encroachment, but the escalation 

5 expanded us and the structure of the world into 

6 something much higher. It now speaks for how 

7 human bodies through power structures originating 

8 from an inherent Virginia property have become 

9 materialized and dematerialized through various 

10 histories of slavery, composition, Apartheid, 

11 capitalist alienation, and now climate change.

12 Post-environment -– post-environmentalism 

13 has strengthened the current industrial order of 

14 power, the sphere it conducts rather than 

15 instability and to choose industry and displaced 

16 by industrial forces.

17 The Elk River spill and the rising 

18 coastal level of Virginia and toxic residential 

19 levels by Dominion's coal ash plants present 

20 environmental issues that displace large amounts 

21 of people as a result of ongoing deregulated 

22 energy. The lack of regulation and current 

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1 government policy continues to give industries 

2 the power to drastically impair the homeostasis 

3 of the place to the point that citizens are 

4 subjected to a competitive environmental and 

5 economic struggle for survival.

6 Any qualities attributed to economic 

7 struggle can just as easily be attributed to the 

8 inequalities and the climate change.

9 MR. BARRON: I'm afraid your time is up, 

10 so I'm going to --

11 MR. BURKETT: Can I just close quick?

12 MR. BARRON: Very quickly.

13 MR. BURKETT: Thank you. The article 

14 ends with I hope you champion the potential goals 

15 of best environment emissions and specifically 

16 ways to clean energy the way the clean energy 

17 bill can direct environmental waste, regulation, 

18 and action towards a local agenda that 

19 acknowledges individuals' rights. Thank you.

20 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. You 

21 can remain seated and we'll move on. Thank you 

22 very much.

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1 And, Trisha Sheehan, and spell any 

2 relevant names for the record, please.

3 MS. SHEEHAN: Hi, our names are Trisha 

4 Sheehan, T-R-I-S-H-A, S-H-E-E-H-A-N, and this is 

5 Logan Sheehan, L-O-G-A-N.

6 My name is Trisha Sheehan. I'm a mother 

7 of two young boys, and my oldest, Logan, is 

8 joining me today. I am also the New Jersey Field 

9 Organizer from Clean Air Force, a force of over 

10 340,000 parents fighting for clean air. I first 

11 would like to thank you guys for allowing me and 

12 my colleagues to be here today because I believe 

13 our most important stakeholders are our children; 

14 and it's important for moms like me to be able to 

15 share our real concerns over climate change, 

16 carbon pollution, and our children's health and 

17 their futures.

18 I work and live in New Jersey, a state 

19 whose air quality in all but one county received 

20 Fs in the American Lung Association's 2012 State 

21 of the Air Report for the number of high ozone 

22 days indicating that the air in New Jersey is a 

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1 real health concern.

2 Over 500,000 adults and 200,000 children 

3 suffer from asthma in my state, according to the 

4 New Jersey Department of Health, but ozone 

5 pollution is only a small part of the health 

6 issues we are facing due to the unregulated 

7 amounts of carbon pollution that is being 

8 released into our air. Increased carbon dioxide 

9 emissions are causing our climate to grow 

10 unstable. 

11 We are experiencing a kind of high energy 

12 weather in New Jersey and throughout our country. 

13 I am here to tell you that climate change is 

14 real. It is affecting my state, my community, my 

15 children, and I'm going to talk to you about the 

16 way that it's affected my -- my parents' 

17 business.

18 My father owns and farms over 5,000 acres 

19 of vegetation in Gloucester County, New Jersey. 

20 His father was a farmer, and he's a farmer, and 

21 his children now farm on this family farm.

22 According to the State of New Jersey 2014 

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1 Hazard Mitigation Plan there are 669 farms in 

2 Gloucester County and 10,000 throughout the 

3 state. There are over 46,000 acres of land of 

4 which 75 percent is used for farming in 

5 Gloucester County alone. 

6 However, climate change is changing the 

7 way that my father is able to run his farm. 

8 Extreme weather events in New Jersey are 

9 happening more frequently and with more intensity 

10 than I can ever recall. From June until 

11 September of 2010 New Jersey experienced a 

12 statewide drought. A total of 16 counties, 

13 including the one where I live and the one where 

14 my father owns his farm, were declared to be 

15 natural disasters by the USDA because of drought 

16 and heat conditions.

17 In August of 2011 Hurricane Irene caused 

18 damage to many crops across the state. From June 

19 to November of 2012 we saw numerous extreme 

20 weather events such as drought, high winds, hail, 

21 excessive heat, excessive rain, flash flooding, 

22 Super Storm Sandy, a snowstorm, a Nor'easter, all 

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1 within five months.

2 Extreme weather events forced farmers to 

3 modify two things on a daily basis be it blowing 

4 rainwater on their sensitive plants or applying 

5 additional pesticides for insects.

6 I grew up playing in the tomato fields 

7 and eating Jersey tomatoes right from the plant, 

8 juice dripping down my arms, and using my dirty 

9 shirt to wipe my face as family members picked 

10 tomatoes around me to be sold to the local 

11 market. This is such an emotional and happy 

12 memory for me, and I really wish that my children 

13 would be able to experience this same memory from 

14 my childhood; but unfortunately, my children will 

15 not have the same experience. Because of the 

16 impact that climate change is having on my 

17 father's crops it is no longer safe to be in the 

18 fields where this food is grown. Many 

19 communities rely heavily on locally grown produce 

20 for human consumption in New Jersey, but because 

21 of the extreme weather he's having to use more 

22 toxic pesticides and fungicides that I don't want 

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1 my children being anywhere near in the fields.

2 As a parent -- or to counter the 

3 offensive and toxic need for pesticides and 

4 fungicides in New Jersey, many farmers are no 

5 longer growing Jersey tomatoes, or blueberries, 

6 or asparagus, or any of the other common fruits 

7 and vegetables that have been grown so 

8 effortlessly in the past in our Garden State.

9 Farmers are now turning to grape growing 

10 and the wine-making business as our warmer 

11 climate is now more appropriate for wineries and 

12 no longer appropriate for growing tomatoes, but 

13 it doesn't have to be this way. My father 

14 doesn't want to grow grapes. He wants to 

15 continue doing what he knows, growing Jersey 

16 tomatoes and asparagus and more fruits. And you 

17 can help him do that.

18 I'm asking that the EPA strengthen the 

19 Clean Power Plan and finalize a rule that reduces 

20 CO2 emissions 40 percent below 2005 levels by 

21 2020. Please help my children have the same 

22 memories of the farm that I had as a child. And 

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1 Logan just one thing he would like to say.

2 LOGAN SHEEHAN: Please, please help Mom's 

3 Clean Air Force and bring back clean air.

4 MS. SHEEHAN: Thank you.

5 MR. BARRON: Thanks to both of you for 

6 making the trip down here.

7 Next up we have Susan Bonney and Tim 

8 Whitcomb. And then following them will be 

9 Jonathan Arnon and Bryan Crenshaw.

10 You are Susan?

11 MS. BONNEY: Yes.

12 MR. BARRON: Do we have Tim Whitcomb 

13 here?

14 (No response.)

15 MR. BARRON: It doesn't look like it. 

16 Just go ahead whenever you're ready.

17 MS. BONNEY: Thank you. My name is Susan 

18 Bonney, S-U-S-A-N, B-O-N-N-E-Y. I'm a Fairfax 

19 County, Virginia, long-time resident; and I'm a 

20 volunteer with my local Sierra Club group, the 

21 Great Falls Group.

22 I support EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan 

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1 to cut carbon pollution, build a more resilient 

2 nation, lead the world in our global climate 

3 fight. The national framework it uses to set 

4 achievable state specific goals to cut carbon 

5 pollution per megawatt hour of electricity 

6 generated can work for us in Virginia. The plan 

7 empowers Virginia to chart our own customized 

8 path to meet the goals.

9 I grew up in Virginia Beach, and we know 

10 that carbon pollution exacerbates climate change 

11 and has contributed and is contributing to more 

12 frequent and more violent extreme weather. 

13 Virginia Beach and the entire region, Hampton 

14 Roads, are at risk for sea level rise as a result 

15 of climate change. Sea levels could rise 8 to 11 

16 inches by 2100.

17 Every year more of our dollars are going 

18 to addressing the impact. Rising sea levels 

19 raise the cost of keeping drinking water clean, 

20 and extreme weather hurts businesses that depend 

21 on tourism. Hampton Roads is second only to New 

22 Orleans in its vulnerability to sea level rise 

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1 impacts.

2 I am here because I strongly believe 

3 my state and the rest of the U.S. can work within 

4 the Clean Power Plan to curb carbon emissions. 

5 Power plants are the largest source of carbon 

6 dioxide emissions in the U.S., accounting for 

7 one-third of all domestic greenhouse gas 

8 emissions.

9 And in the U.S. we limit the amount of 

10 arsenic, and mercury, and soot that power plants 

11 emit but not carbon. So I’m thrilled to see that 

12 limits will be placed on carbon pollution.

13 In Virginia we have made progress with 

14 biomass, wind, and solar energy. Within the 

15 Clean Power Plan we could move more quickly to a 

16 strong clean energy economy. Neighboring states 

17 around Virginia have installed solar capacity at 

18 rates 10 to 100 times higher, so we have a lot of 

19 catching up to do.

20 But the plan doesn't just give states 

21 more options. It gives entrepreneurs and 

22 investors options, too, unleashing marked forces 

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1 to drive innovation, and investment, and energy 

2 efficiency, cleaner power, and low carbon 

3 technologies.

4 I strongly support and will continue to 

5 spend hours as a volunteer to help the economy 

6 grow through increasing investments in clean 

7 energy sources like solar, wind, and energy 

8 efficiency. Energy efficiency is the most cost 

9 effective way for a utility to meet their own 

10 demand for electricity. Efficiency programs 

11 create local jobs that cannot be outsourced, that 

12 put money back into customers' and ratepayers' 

13 pockets that can be reinvested.

14 And I want to see the U.S. refocus our 

15 energy policies to support energy efficiency and 

16 zero emission energy sources like solar and wind.

17 I do not support that carbon regulation 

18 is an opportunity to develop nuclear power due to 

19 its costs, the risks, the shortage of clean 

20 water, and the lack of any long-term plan for 

21 radioactive waste.

22 Down the road in 2030 when states meet 

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1 their goals under the Clean Power Plan, if 

2 approved it will have resulted in about 30 

3 percent less carbon pollution from the power 

4 sector across the U.S. when compared with 2005 

5 levels.

6 The longer we delay taking substantial 

7 steps to curb carbon pollution, the worse the 

8 health and economic impact for climate change 

9 will become. We must act now. I thank you for 

10 the opportunity to speak today.

11 MR. BARRON: Thank you. And we Have 

12 Jonathan Arnon and Bryan Crenshaw. The next pair 

13 will be Mary Louise Collench [phonetic] --

14 apologies -- and Zach Drennen -- Drennen?

15 DR. CRENSHAW: Good afternoon. My name 

16 is Dr. Bryan Crenshaw, B-R-Y-A-N, C-R-E-N-S-H-A17 W. I am a biomedical scientist at Children's 

18 Hospital in Philadelphia. Today I am testifying 

19 as a scientist, as a medical -- as a pediatric 

20 professional and as a father. 

21 So, first of all, I'd like to thank you 

22 for putting forward these rules. I understand 

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1 that it takes a great deal of fortitude to do 

2 this in the current political environment. 

3 Having said that, though, I would encourage you 

4 to strengthen the mandatory tone.

5 Although I'm not a climate scientist, I 

6 do read the primary scientific literature. I 

7 realize that a priori 30 percent carbon reduction 

8 sounds like a significant impact, but the science 

9 tells us that it's not enough. Importantly, this 

10 rule still appears to allow a great deal of 

11 dependence on natural gas. And natural gas is a 

12 bridge field to nowhere, we need to do better.

13 As a pediatric professional I am dismayed 

14 with problems of asthma in our current 

15 environments. And asthma, of course, is 

16 exacerbated by the types of emissions that occur 

17 from coal fueled power plants.

18 And particularly in Philadelphia we have 

19 a significant impact of asthma on urban 

20 population which can be as much as one in four 

21 children. And this is much greater than the 

22 overall impact on the citizens of the United 

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1 States as a whole, so -- you've heard this 

2 earlier from my fellow citizens of Philadelphia.

3 So, for those that argue about the costs 

4 of this rule, I would remind them of the 

5 pricelessness of a child's quality of life to 

6 play outside and to grow up without the burden of 

7 this terrible disease.

8 As a father and as parents we all hope to 

9 leave behind a world that is safer and healthier 

10 than the earth that we inherited. These power 

11 plant rules that we are discussing today are a 

12 small step in that direction. For this reason I 

13 do support them, nonetheless, I encourage you to 

14 pass more stringent reduction that scientists --

15 that science tells us is necessary. Thank you 

16 very much.

17 MR. BARRON: Thank you. I'm going to try 

18 one more time for Jonathan Arnon.

19 (No response.)

20 MR. BARRON: Then Mary Louise Collench 

21 and Zach Drennen? Please go ahead.

22 MR. DRENNEN: Good afternoon, my name is 

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1 Zach Drennen, D-R-E-N-N-E-N. And I'm here today 

2 to speak in support of the EPA's historic action 

3 setting limits on carbon pollution for existing 

4 power plants.

5 The National Climate Assessment released 

6 this year tells us that the changing climate has 

7 already led to the strongest downpours in 50 

8 years. Downpours that dump more than 70 percent 

9 -- 70 percent more precipitation than they had 

10 half a century ago in the northeastern United 

11 States.

12 In real terms this means that my family's 

13 house in western New York has flooded three times 

14 in the past four years. On each occasion water 

15 overflowed the normally dry gully next to our 

16 neighbor's house and ran instead through our back 

17 into the basement, leaving caked mud in its wake, 

18 and washing portions of the road into the lake. 

19 And my dad actually told me that last night it 

20 rained 5.5 inches again.

21 Until recently when this became a nearly 

22 annual phenomenon, it had not happened since 

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1 Hurricane Agnes in 1972.

2 Climate change is also disrupting winter 

3 sports like skiing. Most ski mountains across 

4 the United States have been forced to invest in 

5 snow machines to compensate for shorter winters 

6 and lower snowfall. And those that have not, 

7 like Mad River Glen in Vermont have struggled to 

8 compete.

9 Snow sports are both a way of life and a 

10 central source of income across much of the 

11 northeast, but this spring the New York Times 

12 reported that within three decades as many as 

13 half of the slopes in that region will be forced 

14 to cease revenue with this.

15 These are ways in which climate change 

16 has touched my life, and they obviously pale in 

17 comparison to the people who lost homes in the 

18 largest fire in the history of Washington State 

19 this summer or those who lost lives and loved 

20 ones in one of the strongest ever typhoons 

21 slamming the Philippines last fall.

22 These are climate change-fueled 

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1 catastrophes that require action to treat not 

2 just the symptoms but the underlying disease. 

3 Any solution beyond capping emissions is no more 

4 than a mandate.

5 The EPA's Clean Power Plan is a critical 

6 step on the road to fixing this problem. If the 

7 wealthiest nation on the planet is unable or 

8 unwilling to address the causes of climate 

9 change, then who will?

10 Coal power plants are the largest source 

11 of carbon pollution in the United States today, 

12 and they currently have a free license to pollute 

13 our atmosphere. We are near limit levels of 

14 other powerful pollutants like lead, mercury, and 

15 arsenic, and the time has come to do the same for 

16 the pollution levels warming our planet and 

17 exacerbates health conditions as you've heard 

18 today like childhood asthma.

19 I encourage the EPA to release the 

20 strongest possible final rule, including 

21 increasing its assumptions about the growth rate 

22 of energy efficiency and clean energy 

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1 technologies. Thank you very much.

2 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. And my 

3 apologies for not prompting. We have Glen Besa 

4 and Ethan Spaner.

5 MR. BESA: Good afternoon. My name is 

6 Glen Besa. I'm the Director of Sierra Club, the 

7 Virginia Chapter -- very pleased to be here today 

8 and just want to say that we're very appreciative 

9 of the fact that the EPA has taken this 

10 initiative, and we'd like you to do this and 

11 more.

12 I would like to share --

13 MR. BARRON: Just as housekeeping, could 

14 I get you to spell your name?

15 MR. BESA: Sure. I'd be happy to do 

16 that. 

17 MR. BARRON: My apologies.

18 MR. BESA: Glen, G-L-E-N, last name is 

19 Besa, B-E-S-A. I live in Richmond, Virginia.

20 So, let me cover a few things first on a 

21 personal level. Okay. 

22 A lot of people are being impacted by 

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1 climate change in their everyday lives. 

2 Hurricane Irene, the possibility of more frequent 

3 and more severe storms, Hurricane Irene put two 

4 trees on my house. Okay? So I had to deal with 

5 that. 

6 Okay. My mother-in-law who lives in 

7 Hampton, the second most vulnerable region of the 

8 country relative to sea level rise -- has 

9 experienced flooding in her house three times in 

10 the last eight years. And when I say flooding 

11 experience, she had -- she basically -- her house 

12 was destroyed on the first flood and they had to 

13 rebuild it three times. The next time I suspect 

14 they may not let her stay there. And she's lived 

15 there for over 50 years. Those are the kinds of 

16 impacts that we're experiencing more frequently 

17 as a result of sea level rise.

18 From the perspective of the Sierra Club, 

19 we would like to see you do more. We would like 

20 to see a reduction of 35 to 40 percent below 2005 

21 levels by 2020. We need to get on with this 

22 work. It's very important.

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1 We need to push hard for renewable 

2 energies. Living in Virginia, I'm in a state 

3 that has not done its fair share. We have a 

4 utility that has blocked efforts -- Dominion 

5 Virginia Power by name, and others as well, have 

6 done their best efforts to block renewable 

7 energies from Virginia. And these rules will 

8 help change that.

9 We also need to recognize that these 

10 changes will impact some people 

11 disproportionately. We have coal fields -- a 

12 coal field in Virginia, and we need to do things 

13 to address the equity situations here as this 

14 country moves away from fossil fuels like coal. 

15 And we realize it's happening because of gas as 

16 well, but there certainly is a need to recognize 

17 that with the transition to a clean energy 

18 economy there will be some economic dislocation 

19 and it's important to recognize that.

20 The last thing I'll share with you is 

21 -- is that the State of Virginia right now is --

22 has had a series of listening sessions to take 

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1 testimony from Virginians relative to what they 

2 should be saying about these rules. And I'll let 

3 you know first off that the Sierra Club will be 

4 pressing the state bar to actively support these 

5 rules and to push you to go even further.

6 But as a result of those three hearings, 

7 one in Wytheville, Virginia, in southwestern 

8 Virginia, one in Arlington, Virginia, and one in 

9 Virginia Beach, so far 69 people have testified 

10 in favor of these rules and more; and only 10 

11 have spoken in opposition.

12 With that I'll conclude my testimony and 

13 thank you so much for providing us with this 

14 opportunity.

15 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. And 

16 feel free to give a copy of your testimony at the 

17 registration desk.

18 Please go ahead.

19 MR. SPANER: I am Ethan Spaner, 

20 E-T-H-A-N, S-P-A-N-E-R. I do work as a Project 

21 Specialist on international issues at the 

22 National Wildlife Federation, but I also speak on 

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1 behalf of myself here today.

2 And we've heard a lot about the effects 

3 of climate change, but I'm going to go ahead and 

4 talk about the process of some of these rules, so 

5 sorry about the boredom.

6 I would specifically like to take this 

7 opportunity to describe how the EPA's Clean Power 

8 Plan can support another role within the 

9 President's Climate Action Plan -- that being on 

10 the very last page of the plan. It's entitled 

11 Leading Efforts to Address Climate Change Through 

12 International Negotiations. And climate change 

13 is a global problem with global solutions, which 

14 is why the U.S. works together with other 

15 governments to find solutions through 

16 international negotiations. And the United 

17 States has long been regarded as the villain, if 

18 not public enemy number one in these 

19 international climate change negotiations, 

20 especially the multinational negotiations held on 

21 the highest scale at the United Nations Framework 

22 Convention on Climate Change.

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1 I'm happy to report that the scrutiny of 

2 the U.S. efforts has begun to wane. And when 

3 asked, most global climate change professionals 

4 attribute the U.S.'s improving reputation 

5 directly to the President's Climate Action Plan, 

6 particularly its commitment to stricter carbon 

7 pollution standards for both new and existing 

8 sources.

9 The tune is changing as governments such 

10 as Canada and Australia ramp up their climate 

11 denial rhetoric. The plan citizens have once 

12 again turned to America for hope and for action. 

13 I may be the first one to say this, but we are no 

14 longer the bad guys, but we're not yet the good 

15 guys either. The final section of the plan is 

16 not entitled Improve Our International Reputation 

17 Within International Negotiations, but it's 

18 specifically tasked the administration to take 

19 the lead.

20 How do we do this? Do we send our 

21 savviest statesmen? Do we invest in clean power 

22 abroad? That's not how it's set up. It all 

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1 starts at home, and it's simply not possible to 

2 lead internationally in these negotiations unless 

3 we can have ambitious action on carbon pollution 

4 here at home.

5 EPA's Clean Power Plan is the first step 

6 of this process. Strong action by the United 

7 States will encourage other major emitters such 

8 as China and India to adopt similarly ambitious 

9 rules. We can be the trendsetter, and we can 

10 reap the social, economic, health, and 

11 environmental benefits that go hand in hand with 

12 that role.

13 In terms of the negotiations themselves, 

14 we know that the next global climate change 

15 agreement will largely take a bottom-up approach, 

16 meaning that domestic actions like the Clean 

17 Power Plan will be used to fulfill commitments 

18 made within an international system, commitments 

19 that are due in about eight months at the end of 

20 first quarter 2015.

21 Barring new legislation, it is unlikely, 

22 if not impossible, for the U.S. to propose an 

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1 emissions reduction target that is drastic enough 

2 to solve the climate crisis. There is no quick 

3 fix, no single solution, but the answer is to 

4 diversify the cuts from different sectors --

5 define the low hanging fruit and the biggest 

6 causes for concern and chip away until reductions 

7 have been realized on an economy-wide scale.

8 That's the beauty of the Clean Power Plan 

9 because not only does it provide flexibility to 

10 the states and to industry; it also sets a model 

11 for how to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in a 

12 federalist, inclusatory way.

13 Yes, we can do more. We can always do 

14 more, but with this plan, we are setting an 

15 example for our economy, for the world, and for 

16 our future. This is what a foundation for 

17 leadership looks like. Thank you.

18 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. Next 

19 up we have Sara Chieffo and Linda Tsang. And 

20 after this group, the next two names are Kendyl 

21 Crawford and David Burns.

22 MS. CHIEFFO: Good afternoon. How are 

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1 y'all holding up? Thank you. So my name is Sara 

2 Chieffo, S-A-R-A, last name C-H-I-E-F-F-O.

3 And first, let me say thank you for this 

4 opportunity to speak in support of the 

5 Environmental Protection Agency's proposed Clean 

6 Power Plan. 

7 As you've heard from us today, as you 

8 know this plan sends the first national limits on 

9 carbon pollution from existing power plants. I'm 

10 here first, as a mom, and unlike some of the 

11 other moms here, my daughter is in the middle of 

12 nap time at daycare, so I brought a photo. It's 

13 much less disruptive for a parent and everyone 

14 here.

15 I'm also here as an asthma sufferer, and 

16 I'm here as a Legislative Director for the League 

17 of Conservation Voters.

18 I want to commend President Obama's 

19 leadership in addressing the challenge of our 

20 time which is climate change. And I strongly 

21 support the Comprehensive Climate Action Plan 

22 that he unveiled at my alma mater in June of 

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1 2013. A port pillar, as you know, of that plan 

2 is limiting the pollution driving climate change 

3 in the nation's power plants. You know this as 

4 well as we do. The science is clear. Climate 

5 change is here, and human actions are the main 

6 cause.

7 Across the country people are seeing the 

8 impacts right outside their windows and in their 

9 back yards. The devastation brought by Super 

10 Storm Sandy, as you've heard from a mom earlier 

11 this afternoon, the drought gripping my homestead 

12 of California, or the wildfires and subsequent 

13 floods that ravaged Colorado this past summer.

14 Now our nation is already footing the 

15 bill for climate change. In 2013 there were 

16 seven separate weather and climate disasters 

17 whose price tags exceeded one billion -- that's a 

18 billion with a B. Taxpayers are stuck picking up 

19 the vast majority of this tab.

20 Now doctors, nurses, scientists, and 

21 other experts have sounded the alarm. If we 

22 don't act, carbon pollution will lead to 

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1 catastrophic impacts, and we're already seeing 

2 some of those impacts today. Climate change is 

3 also a clear threat to our health. Climate 

4 change's rising temperatures will make smog and 

5 pollution worse, triggering asthma attacks and 

6 even permanently damaging our children's 

7 developing lungs like my daughter Stella's.

8 Now, fossil fuel fired power plants are 

9 the single largest source of carbon pollution in 

10 the United States, accounting for roughly 40 

11 percent of annual global warming emissions. 

12 Until now these polluters have been free to dump 

13 unlimited amounts of carbon pollution into our 

14 air.

15 The EPA's proposed standards will finally 

16 change that. These state-by-state pollution 

17 reduction guidelines are exciting for a number of 

18 reasons. It puts states back in the driver's 

19 seat when it comes to deciding what pollution 

20 reduction measures will work best for them. We 

21 commend you for putting in the four building 

22 blocks that you've outlined. They're really 

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1 based programs that have a proven track record in 

2 many states across the country.

3 I'm here to tell you you're on solid 

4 ground. As you know, limiting carbon pollution 

5 is widely supported including -- overall four out 

6 of five young people -- and this shouldn't be 

7 surprising because this is the generation with 

8 the most at stake in climate change. In fact, 

9 it's -- it would be funny if it weren't such a 

10 tough challenge, but reducing carbon pollution 

11 from the nation's largest polluters is so common 

12 sense that people already think these limits are 

13 in place. When they find out that they're not, 

14 and they think well, we already limit the sources 

15 of pollution like mercury, arsenic, and lead from 

16 power plants. They demand that we do the exact 

17 same thing for the pollution driving climate 

18 change.

19 So this proposed standard will protect 

20 public health. It will spur innovation and clean 

21 technologies. It will create new jobs. It will 

22 save consumers on their electricity bills despite 

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1 what the Chamber of Commerce is trying to say out 

2 in the airways. And it will start us down a path 

3 of stopping dangerous climate disruption. It 

4 will also help ensure that the current market 

5 trends we're already seeing towards a cleaner, 

6 and safer, and more modern power sector continue.

7 This standard builds on successful actions of 

8 this administration, the EPA, and that the 

9 Department of Transportation have already taken 

10 to modernize our vehicle fleet and to limit the 

11 amount of carbon pollution from cars and trucks.

12 LCV is proud to have already gathered 

13 over 150,000 comments in support of the Clean 

14 Power Plan. Our members are part of the record15 breaking millions of citizens across the country 

16 that have said, EPA, we have your back; be bold 

17 and limit carbon pollution from both new and 

18 existing power plants.

19 We commend you for the proposal, and we 

20 encourage the Agency to issue the strongest final 

21 standard possible this coming June, including 

22 increasing the assumptions about what reductions 

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1 are achievable through investments in energy 

2 efficiency and renewable energy.

3 I feel very lucky to get up every day and 

4 fight for a safer planet and for cleaner air. I 

5 want to say thank you to the EPA and to you, 

6 Chris, Alex, and Erich for your time listening to 

7 all of us. And I just want to say, you know, I 

8 have a whole new-found perspective on fighting 

9 for climate change and why this problem is so 

10 pressing. I have such a moral obligation when I 

11 am chasing my daughter around every day, so thank 

12 you for this opportunity.

13 MR. BARRON: Thank you. 

14 MS. TSANG: Good afternoon, my name is 

15 Linda Tsang, L-I-N-D-A, T, as in Tom, S-A-N-G, 

16 and I'm the Director of Air Quality and Climate 

17 for the American Forest and Paper Association and 

18 the American Wood Council. I don't have a 

19 picture of my kids, but all this wood will 

20 represent me today.

21 We appreciate this opportunity to provide 

22 our views on EPA's Clean Power Plan. AF&PA 

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1 primarily represents pulp and paper manufacturers 

2 and AWC primarily represents wood product 

3 manufacturers.

4 EPA's Clean Power Plan affects all users 

5 of electricity. The forest products industry is 

6 an energy intensive industry and spent over $5 

7 billion on purchase of electricity in 2011. 

8 Because we operate in a highly competitive global 

9 market increases in our energy costs can 

10 significantly harm the competitiveness of the 

11 U.S. forest products industry. 

12 We have stated before that the Clean Air 

13 Act is not the right tool to address greenhouse 

14 gas emissions and we are concerned that EPA's 

15 proposal could have unintended consequences that 

16 negatively impact our economy.

17 For the time being the plan treats 

18 biomass CO2 emissions the same as fossil fuel 

19 emissions even though EPA acknowledges that using 

20 biomass for energy can have climate benefits 

21 compared to using fossil fuels and can help 

22 reduce greenhouse gases.

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1 Our industry's products and the manner in 

2 which we produce and use biomass energy are all 

3 part of the sustainable carbon cycle. CO2 is 

4 stored as carbon in trees and then released when 

5 the trees die, decay, or are combusted. Wood 

6 residuals from forest products mills such as bark 

7 would have decayed and released CO2 to the 

8 atmosphere anyway if they had not been used to 

9 produce energy and displaced fossil fuels. 

10 The use of biomass for energy reduction 

11 is not the same as burning fossil fuels or 

12 purchasing fossil fuel based electricity. Now 

13 the time has come for EPA to fully recognize this 

14 in the regulations and policy.

15 In the plan EPA clearly signals that they 

16 anticipate that states will consider using 

17 biomass to help meet emission reduction 

18 requirements of the rule and says that the 

19 accounting framework for biogenic CO2 emissions, 

20 when finalized, will be a resource to help inform 

21 states in developing their plans.

22 Parties interested in biomass-related 

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1 issues are deprived of their rightful opportunity 

2 to fully comment on the plan until EPA issues the 

3 revised accounting framework that will determine 

4 the central issue of biomass carbon neutrality. 

5 We believe that EPA's accounting framework should 

6 be simple and practical and be based on the best 

7 available data. The framework should reflect 

8 data that shows the use of manufacturing 

9 residuals for energy generates greenhouse gas 

10 reduction benefits.

11 In addition, the framework should avoid 

12 the use of an anticipated baseline based on 

13 modeling assumptions because it is inaccurate, 

14 unduly complicated, and costly to implement.

15 In contrast, a reference point baseline 

16 that uses historical and current data more 

17 accurately assesses if there are any atmospheric 

18 impacts from the use of biomass for energy.

19 AF&PA and AWC urge EPA to complete its 

20 accounting framework, acknowledge these carbon 

21 neutrality principles, apply them consistently to 

22 its regulations, and provide clear guidance on 

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1 how the framework should be incorporated into 

2 state implementation plans.

3 Given the importance and the far-reaching 

4 impact of EPA's regulation of greenhouse gases 

5 from the power sector, EPA must fully examine the 

6 plan's impact on various manufacturing industries 

7 and commit to addressing biomass use for energy. 

8 Thank you for your time and consideration.

9 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much for your 

10 input. 

11 Next up we have Kendyl Crawford and David 

12 Burns.

13 MS. CRAWFORD: Hi, my name is Kendyl 

14 Crawford. That's spelled K-E-N-D-Y-L, Crawford, 

15 C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D. And I am coming from Richmond, 

16 Virginia.

17 The National Climate Assessment, released 

18 this past June, announces that children, the 

19 elderly, the sick, the poor, and some communities 

20 of color are the most at risk of the negative 

21 health impacts of climate change. The assessment 

22 reports that the impacts of climate change are 

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1 here today and that they are producing threats to 

2 health.

3 One threat predicted to worsen is 

4 respiratory stress from poor air quality. This 

5 does not look good for those like me with 

6 conditions like asthma and allergies with the 

7 report predicting increased smog, more wildfires, 

8 longer pollen seasons, higher pollen 

9 concentrations, and worsening indoor air quality 

10 due to increased fungi and molds.

11 We cannot afford to let climate change 

12 amplify our health risk when it will come at the 

13 expense of the most vulnerable among us. 

14 According to the U.S. Office of Minority 

15 Health, African-Americans are three times more 

16 likely to die from asthma-related causes than 

17 Caucasians. And African-American children are 

18 3.6 times more likely to visit the emergency room 

19 for asthma than Caucasian children.

20 According to the Energy Economics and the 

21 Environment, effects on African-Americans report 

22 released by the American Association of Blacks 

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1 and Energy, approximately 78 percent of African2 Americans live within 30 miles of a coal fired 

3 power plant. Although coal is often hailed as 

4 being the most cost effective energy solution, 

5 this does not take into account all of the 

6 burdens that weigh down communities closest to 

7 the plants.

8 Unfortunately, African-Americans with 

9 lower ways of health insurance coverage have 

10 fewer resources to manage these added impacts. 

11 These communities suffer from increased rates of 

12 asthma, lost school and work days, not to mention 

13 lead exposure which has been linked to attention 

14 deficits and higher incidents of violent crime. 

15 Surely these expenses should be calculated as a 

16 part of the true cost of our energy production. 

17 And while these health disparities need 

18 to be addressed, the vulnerable need to be 

19 protected, and we, as a society, need to become 

20 serious about finding climate change. We cannot 

21 ignore the alarming health disparities within our 

22 community. 

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1 With carbon pollution being the chief 

2 cause of climate change and with power plants 

3 being the chief source of that pollution, I 

4 support the Clean Power Plan and call for it to 

5 be strengthened to reduce our carbon emissions by 

6 at least 35 percent based on 2005 levels by 2020.

7 The vulnerable, our children and future 

8 generations, are too important for us to not take 

9 strong and decisive action by embracing clean and 

10 renewable energy. Thank you.

11 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. 

12 MR. BURNS: Thank you. My name is David 

13 Burns. That's B-U-R-N-S. I'm a resident of 

14 D.C., and I work for the National Wildlife 

15 Federation. Normally I work on international 

16 policy, and I've seen firsthand the impacts of 

17 climate change and carbon pollution, especially 

18 in the tropics on wildlife and people, but today 

19 I'll be sharing the experience of someone closer 

20 to home. I'm reading the testimony of Josh Nease 

21 -- that's N-E-A-S-E -- of the New River Valley 

22 Trout, Unlimited, in southwestern Virginia.

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1 These are his words: I thank you for the 

2 opportunity to submit this formal testimony 

3 regarding EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. I am 

4 pleased with this administration's proposed 

5 action to combat climate change by setting limits 

6 on carbon pollution from existing power plants. 

7 I am eager for a time when the existence of 

8 climate change is no longer a political debate, 

9 and this country can become a leader in climate 

10 change mitigation and adaptation. I applaud EPA 

11 for taking much needed steps to reverse the 

12 course we are on.

13 My name is Josh Nease, and I live and 

14 fish in Virginia's New River Valley. I believe 

15 that we have a social, environmental, and 

16 economic obligation to take steps to mitigate 

17 climate change. These actions will help to 

18 protect the ecosystem's services on which we rely 

19 and conserve our natural resources for use by 

20 future generations.

21 One natural resource facing the greatest 

22 threat is our native wildlife. And as a 

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1 fisherman, paddler, birder, and naturalist, I 

2 applaud EPA for taking action to combat the 

3 cause, carbon pollution.

4 I have been fly fishing for trout in the 

5 mountains of West Virginia and Virginia for many 

6 years. In my short lifetime the impacts of 

7 climate change, specifically a warming planet and 

8 changing weather patterns have taken a toll on 

9 wild native trout populations. Increasing stream 

10 temperatures are forcing wild brook trout 

11 populations further and further upstream to the 

12 smallest coldest streams in the watershed. In 

13 these headwater tributaries food supplies and 

14 habitat are often limited, and populations of 

15 fish are isolated from other populations reaping 

16 the genetic diversity of the species.

17 The U.S. EPA's Clean Power Plan is a 

18 major step in the right direction. This plan 

19 will help define the way towards a future in 

20 which we invest more in clean energy and less in 

21 fuels that pollute our air and water and harm our 

22 global climate.

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1 By reducing reliance on coal burning for 

2 power generation in the U.S., the Clean Power 

3 Plan will help protect wildlife by reducing not 

4 only carbon pollution but other harmful 

5 pollutants like mercury that poisons fish and 

6 threatens all who eat them. This rule will 

7 reduce the need for more coal mining that's 

8 destroying precious wildlife habitat, including 

9 our waterways.

10 As you finalize this standard, I ask that 

11 you work to ensure that it achieves the deepest 

12 reductions possible by requiring states to focus 

13 on increasing energy efficiencies and renewable 

14 energy sources and not solely on transitioning to 

15 natural gas.

16 Virginia can and should do more to 

17 generate power from renewable sources like wind 

18 and solar and reduce energy demand through energy 

19 efficiency. EPA should strengthen the standard 

20 to reflect this potential.

21 Thank you for the opportunity to comment 

22 today, and we look forward to working with you to 

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1 finalize and implement the Clean Power Plan. To 

2 mitigate climate change we know what we need to 

3 do and we have an ever improving technology to do 

4 it. Now we need the political will to make the 

5 transition and keep America moving forward.

6 We hope you will do everything you can to 

7 ensure it stays strong through the process. 

8 Wildlife and future generations are counting on 

9 your leadership. Thank you.

10 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much, both of 

11 you.

12 Next up we have Sarah Ucic, U-C-I-C, and 

13 then Janet Miller. And then after that would be 

14 James Lytle.

15 MS. UCIC: Good afternoon. My name is 

16 Sarah Ucic. Last name would be U-C-I-C. 

17 I'm here today in Washington, D.C., as a 

18 34-year resident of New Castle County, Delaware. 

19 I'm here as a Registered Nurse of 13 years, and 

20 I'm here as a mother of a six-year-old who is 

21 anxiously awaiting in the hallway.

22 So why am I here today to testify? 

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1 Growing up, I never thought much about the 

2 environment to be honest. My great grandparents 

3 were from Eastern Europe, and they worked in coal 

4 mines upon arriving to the United States. My 

5 grandmother and her father worked in the coal 

6 mines of Pennsylvania. Many of my family have 

7 worked either in factories or in chemical 

8 production. Industry and chemicals have always 

9 been part of my life.

10 I was born on Grand Island, New York, in 

11 1978, and while my mother was pregnant with me, 

12 seven miles away the Love Canal neighborhood was 

13 being evacuated. I spent the first three years 

14 of my life in upstate New York, and when I was 

15 three, I moved to New Castle County, Delaware.

16 Eight years ago I moved next to one of 

17 the largest sour crude refineries in the United 

18 States. Industry in Delaware is so prevalent it 

19 actually felt familiar.

20 When I was 29, I had a daughter. And 

21 when she was three months old, an event occurred 

22 at our local refinery. So people in my community 

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1 reported a substance on their cars. I called our 

2 local Natural Resources Agency, and I was told 

3 not to worry about my baby.

4 When I was 30, I had a growth on my neck 

5 that continued to grow. After requiring surgery 

6 I was told I had carcinoma on my thyroid gland. 

7 I go back now for yearly ultrasounds and require 

8 daily medication. And I am fortunate that unlike 

9 many other cancer patients, I did not require 

10 radiation and separation from my child for 48 

11 hours at a time.

12 Over the last five years I've wondered 

13 about where I was born, where I've grown up, and 

14 I don't get answers. Here's what I do know: I 

15 do know my town in New Castle, Delaware, is a 

16 nonattainment zone, particulate matter 2.5, which 

17 is the very small stuff that goes into my 

18 daughter's lungs very deeply. It's also a

19 nonattainment for eight-hour ozone. I do know 

20 interstate air pollution contributes to our 

21 nonattainment. I know that where I was born had 

22 legacy contamination, and where I continue to 

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1 live has legacy contamination.

2 In 2011 after speaking to our local 

3 refinery, I was subsequently asked to join the 

4 Community Advisory Panel to report back their 

5 progress to the community since I had started an 

6 environmental Facebook page about our area.

7 I recall most vividly a year into my 

8 being on their panel the night I attended their 

9 monthly meeting. I sat and I listened to how 

10 clean they were, how much better they were than 

11 their many prior owners, and I believed them. 

12 However, it provided little comfort to me as this 

13 was the same day I found out my daughter had a 

14 reactive airway disease. 

15 That day I was given two inhalers and a 

16 pediatric spacer. This is for a toddler. It 

17 goes over their nose and their mouth. I was very 

18 frightened.

19 There were changes that had taken place 

20 in her lungs by age three and a half. And these 

21 were visible on basic X-ray. These changes are 

22 referred to as bronchial cuffing, and I am not 

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1 sure what this means for future lung functioning.

2 Carbon pollution is not a problem to our 

3 children, our grand or great grandchildren. It's 

4 my problem; it's our problem. My family in the 

5 past experienced the financial benefits of 

6 industry. We have also experienced health 

7 consequences. We have experienced black lung 

8 disease. We have experienced leukemia. I will 

9 also add to that list my cancer and my daughter's 

10 now diagnosed asthma. And these are prices that 

11 are not calculated when decisions are made.

12 Asthma can be life-threatening if it's 

13 not properly managed. In Delaware alone from 

14 1994 to 2001 a study done by our Division of 

15 Public Health and our Natural Resources Agency 

16 concluded 113 fatalities directly linked to 

17 asthma in Delaware alone. We can no longer rely 

18 on the ignorance of the consequences to calculate 

19 costs. We need to consider many costs. What is 

20 the cost if you lose your head of household? 

21 What does it cost to lose your parent, your 

22 child? Many of these aren't even in dollars. We 

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1 cannot allow any longer the false choice of jobs 

2 versus the environment. This is a false choice 

3 to ask citizens to choose between their own 

4 health and their own finances, and this is not a 

5 real choice.

6 This problem can be solved and I look to 

7 the EPA to strongly regulate in order to protect 

8 not only families who live near facilities but 

9 for their workers and families as well. If 

10 people can't work jobs due to their health, 

11 whether the job exists or not, will not be 

12 relevant any longer.

13 We can't ask people any longer to work in 

14 the polluted communities as a normal American 

15 practice. The projected health impacts of not 

16 imposing this new carbon standard will be 

17 disabling and deadly. And I urge anyone who 

18 considers the costs of the standard to consider 

19 that people's lives will be saved by the proposed 

20 standard and to those -- those individuals, the 

21 cost would be immeasurable. Thank you.

22 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

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1 Are you James Lytle?

2 MR. LYTLE: I am.

3 MR. BARRON: Great. Thank you very much.

4 MR. LYTLE: Hi, my name is James Lytle, 

5 L-Y-T-L-E. I'm here to speak in support of the 

6 Clean Power Plan.

7 I come to you -- I cannot tell you how 

8 strongly I can relate to the previous speaker's 

9 adult life. I recently found out -- well, about 

10 10 years ago I found out I have asthma, didn't 

11 have that until 10 years ago. And only in the 

12 last month or so I found out that I have a 

13 strange form of skin cancer. 

14 We are probably in a situation where 

15 we're on the verge of a huge mass extinction. 

16 Water will soon be completely unavailable to the 

17 vast majority of our Great Basin, the entire --

18 the entire west coast, west of the Sierras. 

19 We're in a real crisis situation, and I would 

20 urge the EPA to really stand strong on this power 

21 plan and resist the monied interest in our 

22 country which seem to think that they can deny 

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1 their way out of our current -- our current --

2 it's a cataclysm we're heading towards.

3 And so, I -- I don't -- I won't belabor 

4 the fact, but I hope strongly that the EPA will 

5 consider people like me, people like the woman 

6 who spoke before me. We -- we have to live. We 

7 have to pay for this crap that we're going 

8 through. And it's not a lot of fun. So at least 

9 limiting carbon that goes into the air, CO2 

10 pollution which can increase the radiation of the 

11 sun, increase the heat -- at least that gets us 

12 started turning the ship. It's -- it's going to 

13 take a long time, and we may never be able to 

14 avoid this cataclysm towards which we are headed. 

15 I'm not positive that we can, but we have to take 

16 some action. And this appears to me to be a 

17 reasonable one.

18 And I would also like to -- to echo what 

19 I heard earlier. It's time for the United States 

20 to lead on this instead of taking up the rear in 

21 all instances. I'm tired of that. I'm an 

22 American. I'd like to see my country start to 

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1 lead among nations again.

2 Thank you. That's all I need to say to 

3 you.

4 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. Next 

5 up we have Allison Homer and Brent Murcia. And 

6 then after that would be Reed McGinley and Phoebe 

7 Long.

8 MS. HOMER: Hello, my name is Allison 

9 Homer, and I am from Blacksburg, Virginia James 

10 Lytle. As a graduate student of urban 

11 environmental planning and policy and as an 

12 informed and concerned citizen, I stand in 

13 support of the Environmental Protection Agency 

14 for taking this critical step towards reducing 

15 toxic carbon emissions. However, with 

16 nearly half of the people in the U.S. breathing 

17 air that contains unhealthy levels of pollution 

18 according to the American Lung Association and 

19 with our climate on a rapidly accelerating, 

20 nearly uncontrollable trajectory, these rules 

21 must be stronger.

22 Further, considering the unbearably 

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1 unjust facts that our African-American citizens 

2 have a death rate from asthma that is 172 percent 

3 higher than that of Caucasians, most likely 78 

4 percent live within 30 miles of a power plant and 

5 are at disproportionate risk from climate change 

6 due to population concentration in areas of high 

7 risk, these rules absolutely must address 

8 environmental justice concerns raised within the 

9 current proposal.

10 I can personally attest to the verity of 

11 the statistics of the disproportionate health 

12 risks among communities of color and lower 

13 socioeconomic status. Like many of my fellow 

14 Americans, I have been fortunate enough to have 

15 been raised in a tight knit family that is 

16 racially, culturally, and economically diverse. 

17 It is beautiful. 

18 Here is the tragic part. My blood19 related family members who happen to be of Latino 

20 or African-American descent or of lower socio21 economic status face serious health issues that 

22 I, as a middle class Caucasian, have never had to 

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1 face. These health issues can be directly 

2 correlated with the proximity of their 

3 neighborhoods to toxic emission sites. This is 

4 great and grotesque injustice and is morally and 

5 legally unacceptable.

6 The EPA is obligated to address these 

7 random issues under Executive Order 128.98, 

8 Federal Actions to address environmental justice 

9 in minority populations and low income 

10 populations. And they are working in the right 

11 direction, I believe.

12 As the rule stands now, however, it is 

13 very slanted towards cap and trade as the most 

14 viable option to meet carbon emissions. Cap and 

15 trade, while it looks good on paper, has 

16 potential to create hot spots where toxic power 

17 plants remain likely those in community of color 

18 or in low socioeconomic status. There are 

19 currently no systems to ensure that greenhouse 

20 gas reductions occur in communities that would 

21 benefit the most from co-pollutant reductions.

22 Further, the rule currently adopts a 

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1 number of misleading claims about the benefits of 

2 fracking. These projects are, again, largely 

3 housed in communities of low socioeconomic status 

4 and create harmful emissions similar to those 

5 coal fired power plants.

6 Concerning climate, we have now reached 

7 the highest carbon -- the highest CO2 levels in 

8 800,000 years. That is not a cycle. We are 

9 altering the only environment we have ever known.

10 If we were to miraculously cease all 

11 emissions today, our climate would continue 

12 warming for nearly 1,000 years. While the EPA is 

13 moving in a very admirable and critical 

14 direction, unfortunately 30 percent reductions by 

15 2030 comes nowhere close to what we need to 

16 -- to where we need to be in order to address 

17 this climate crisis.

18 States who have already taken initiative 

19 like Delaware and Minnesota have easily reduced 

20 emissions and have seen economic growth. These 

21 are proof that we can and must do better with 

22 stronger standards.

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1 The economic benefits associated with the 

2 Clean Power Plan have also been shown in evidence 

3 in the past three decades. From 1970 to 2001 

4 emissions dropped 68 percent while GDP rose by 

5 200 percent, and the private sector rose by 88 

6 percent.

7 The claims that the rules will create 

8 economic hardship are unfounded. These rules, in 

9 summary, while a critical first step are -- fall 

10 far short of what we know from insurmountable 

11 science to be necessary. The rules must hold 

12 standards higher than 30 percent and must include 

13 the input of all communities within the United 

14 States regardless of race or socioeconomic status

15 That being said, I want to thank the EPA 

16 for taking the initiative on creating these 

17 carbon pollution standards under the direction of 

18 President Obama and for launching our United 

19 States' initiative to address climate change and 

20 air pollution.

21 MR. BARRON: Thanks very much for your 

22 input. And you're welcome to elaborate further 

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1 on the environmental justice or anything else 

2 from your testimony for the record and further 

3 suggestions.

4 MR. MURCIA: My name is Brent Murcia, M5 U-R-C-I-A. I just want to start by saying that 

6 I'm really grateful that as a young person and a 

7 relatively ordinary person, I have the ability to 

8 offer input on something like this. The EPA's 

9 open and transparent process is something to be 

10 very proud of. 

11 And then I guess I -- so I am a student 

12 and I intern as an occasional environmental 

13 activist, but today, I'm just talking from my 

14 personal perspective as a 19-year-old growing up 

15 with the looming threat of climate change. So 

16 I'll share some of my experiences with you and 

17 hopefully my perspective can be useful.

18 I grew up in Connecticut where we are no 

19 stranger to extreme weather are especially 

20 recently. In 2011 we Hurricane Irene. That 

21 storm hit us with 754,000 power outages -o- about 

22 half the state's customers. A tree fell on my 

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1 house, like many, and I went eight days without 

2 power or running water in one of the hottest 

3 weeks of the summer. Irene was the 7th costliest 

4 hurricane in U.S. history, $15.6 billion, and 49 

5 people lost their lives. 

6 Two months later in October we were hit 

7 by a historic early season snowstorm. Because it 

8 hit when the leaves were still on the trees, 

9 thousands of trees came down, and this time more 

10 than half the state, 830,000 customers, lost 

11 power. Outages lasted as long as 11 days, 

12 leaving some people huddling together for warmth 

13 in shelters. Another two trees fell on my house, 

14 one right over the bed I was sleeping in. That 

15 storm cost the U.S. as much as $3 billion; 10 

16 people in Connecticut lost their lives. 

17 And then there was Super Storm Sandy, $65 

18 billion in damage, the second costliest storm in 

19 history. 625,000 power outages in Connecticut, 

20 72 people were killed, 4 of them in Connecticut. 

21 What else can I say about Sandy that hasn't 

22 already been said?

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1 And I was personally fortunate that for 

2 the most part I was never in any immediate danger 

3 in these storms. But for millions of people on 

4 the front lines of climate change, extreme 

5 weather is the difference between life and death, 

6 between having a home and having it washed away.

7 So I'll be honest: As a 19-year-old 

8 seeing all of this happen, I'm -- I'm really 

9 scared. I'm scared because I hear scientists 

10 saying that storms like these, heavy 

11 precipitation events and extreme temperatures, 

12 are becoming more and more frequent and will get 

13 worse. I'm scared because the town that I grew 

14 up near, where my friends live, are predicted to 

15 be under water within my lifetime. So my friends 

16 may lose their houses.

17 I'm scared because models predict that 

18 temperatures may get up to 10 degrees Fahrenheit 

19 warmer if we don't do something. And most of 

20 all, I'm scared because as I've learned about it 

21 from teachers as far back as elementary school, 

22 our government has still not done anything. SO 

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1 this proposal gives me some hope that this is 

2 changing, that we still can prevent the future 

3 that I'm afraid of.

4 But my support of the proposal does not 

5 just rest on fear. I am genuinely excited by the 

6 possibilities it opens up for us. I've had the 

7 chance to do some work in the renewable industry, 

8 and I know that the potential for jobs and growth 

9 is there. 

10 I'm also excited about what this proposal 

11 can do for our air. My father is a physician 

12 who's done some work in public health. He's told 

13 me about the massive number of health problems 

14 that come from air pollution. Currently, 44 

15 percent of people in the U.S. are regularly 

16 exposed to dangerously polluted air. And as a 

17 Latino, this hits very close to home because 

18 minorities are 38 percent more impacted directly, 

19 and 40 percent of Latinos live within 30 miles of 

20 a power plant. 

21 These proposed standards will help to cut 

22 dangerous pollution from these power plants, and 

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1 I really appreciate that. This is one thing I 

2 love about the proposal. It recognizes that our 

3 problems do not stand alone but are 

4 interconnected, and that it will take a 

5 coordinated approach to solve them.

6 The proposed rule is not perfect. I 

7 think that EPA should do more to take into 

8 account environmental justice concerns about 

9 nuclear energy and fracking. There are costs 

10 there that aren't being counted. And I also think 

11 someone not far from where I go to school said 

12 that there are changes in the atmospher.

13 And I also think that there are 

14 definitely winners in our attempt to have cleaner 

15 energy; there are also inevitably some losers. 

16 But when net benefits far outweigh the costs, we 

17 have to remember that there are some costs, and I 

18 believe there should be a mechanism in place for 

19 those who are hit by the costs to be helped. 

20 That's more of a job for the states. That's one 

21 thing I appreciate about this rule, that states 

22 have flexibility to use it and that's really a 

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1 great feature.

2 So yes, I'm concluding that this proposal 

3 isn't perfect; but solving climate change and 

4 cleaning our air will take many steps, and this 

5 is one of those. To me, this rule is a huge step 

6 in the right direction, one that we'll 

7 undoubtedly have to build on, but one that can 

8 get us going. For that I sincerely thank the EPA 

9 for what you've done, and I hope that you 

10 continue for all of us.

11 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. Next 

12 we have Reed McGinley and Phoebe Long. And then 

13 next up would be Zach Gargura [phonetic] and Jim 

14 Ball.

15 MR. MCGINLEY-STEMPEL: Hi, my name is 

16 Reed McGinley-Stempel. I and I am happy to be 

17 here today.

18 MR. BARRON: Can you spell that for us?

19 MR. MCGINLEY-STEMPEL: Reed, R-E-E-D, 

20 McGinley-Stempel. I won't make you spell that, 

21 and I am happy to --

22 MR. BARRON: Can you spell that for us?

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1 MR. MCGINLEY-STEMPEL: I'd be happy to 

2 spell it, I guess. 

3 Reed, R-E-E-D, McGinley, M-C-capital G-I4 N-L-E-Y, hyphen, S-T-E-M-P-E-L.

5 I am happy to speak in strong support of 

6 the EPA's proposed carbon emission standards for 

7 power plants. Cutting emissions for our nation's 

8 largest polluter is an essential step in the 

9 matter of climate change. As the likelihood 

10 increases that our planet will surpass the 2 

11 degrees Celsius mark in temperature increases, 

12 ambitious efforts like the Clean Power Plan aimed 

13 at curbing significant carbon pollution are 

14 increasingly needed.

15 I grew up in southern Nevada, and I 

16 witnessed the negative impacts of climate change 

17 firsthand. My hometown of Henderson depends on 

18 the Lake Mead reservoir, which is fed by the 

19 Colorado River for virtually all of its water 

20 needs. Therefore, it was disconcerting to learn 

21 from a recent article in the Desert Sun newspaper 

22 that Lake Mead's water level is now rapidly 

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1 declining at one foot per week, largely caused by 

2 a 14-year drought we are experiencing. 

3 One study conducted a few years ago by 

4 scientists from the University of California in 

5 San Diego gives us 50-50 odds that Lake Mead will 

6 run dry by 2021. To put this in perspective, the 

7 reservoir provides water to more than 20 million 

8 people, including the entirety of the Las Vegas 

9 Valley.

10 Although drought is not necessarily 

11 uncommon in the region, climate change has 

12 contributed to many of these ill effects. 

13 According to the EPA, temperatures in the 

14 Southwest have increased 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit 

15 in the past century causing mass decreases in 

16 snow packing and the Colorado River's flow, 

17 Therefore jeopardizing the lake -- the Lake Mead 

18 Reservoir. 

19 These abnormally high temperatures have 

20 contributed to a dwindling water supply and 

21 worsened drought. In order to cope, Las Vegas is 

22 currently working on an $817 million project 

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1 aimed at temporarily extending the reservoir 

2 lifespan. While it is unlikely that my 

3 community's specific plight can be solved by 

4 these ambitious carbon reductions, I hope the 

5 lesson of Lake Mead serves to underpin the 

6 importance of taking swift action against climate 

7 change to avoid similar fates for other 

8 communities.

9 We have already seen the economic cost of 

10 the inaction in Southern Nevada, and there will 

11 be additional human costs in the form of higher 

12 smog and air pollution if we continue to ignore 

13 the problem.

14 Thank you to the EPA for taking this 

15 critical step in securing a healthier and more 

16 stable future forever.

17 MR. BARRON: Thank you. Thank you very 

18 much.

19 If you could spell your name?

20 MS. LONG: Phoebe Long, P-H-O-E-B-E, 

21 L-O-N-G. So I'm Phoebe Long, and I'm here to 

22 speak in favor of the Clean Power Plan because I 

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1 believe it is well planned, efficient, and 

2 possible. I am from Western Massachusetts, and I 

3 commend the efforts that my Congressman and 

4 senators have taken so far to reduce carbon 

5 emissions within my state. 

6 If the nations continue having carbon 

7 levels of emission, actions will be adversely 

8 affected. By 2100 the temperature will rise on 

9 average between 5 and 10 degrees. The sea level 

10 could rise anywhere between 11 to 79 inches. The 

11 consequences of these changes will alter bird 

12 migrations and endanger coastal towns and 

13 Massachusetts economy.

14 Beyond Massachusetts, cutting carbon 

15 pollution would have wide-reaching positive 

16 effects for people in any state as it works to 

17 protect health of American residents. The plan 

18 would cut carbon and particle pollution, thus 

19 making the air we breathe cleaner and safer.

20 The Clean Power Plan works to reduce 

21 risks for asthma. Such actions will help 

22 protect vulnerable populations such as the 

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1 elderly and the young who are most sensitive to 

2 the asthma-inducing particles in the air. These 

3 reductions will avert between 140,000 to 150,000 

4 asthma attacks in children, thus saving between 

5 2,700 and 6,600 more lives from premature deaths.

6 The Clean Power Plan also works towards a 

7 more sustainable power sector. The United States 

8 should lead the pack in innovative energy, not 

9 trail behind others. Modernizing energy 

10 production would create jobs in varying sectors 

11 from construction, to engineering, to service 

12 providers, and to programming. The Clean Power 

13 Plan will help Americans get jobs and retain our 

14 position at the forefront of the sustainable 

15 energy movement and solve climate change.

16 The EPA's plan is common sense. It's not 

17 radical. It varies from state to state to ensure 

18 that each state has a fair standard and helps 

19 protect the air. Power plants are the absolute 

20 largest source of carbon pollution in America. 

21 And the Clean Power Plan works to lessen the 

22 currently unlimited amount of carbon pollution 

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1 that power plants are currently allowed to dump 

2 into the air. It's sensible. It's good law, it's 

3 good policy, and it's good for our environment. 

4 And thank you for your time.

5 MR. BARRON: Thanks very much for your 

6 input. 

7 Next up Zach Gargura and Jim Ball. Are 

8 you here -- either of them?

9 (No response.)

10 MR. BARRON: Zach Gargura [phonetic], Jim 

11 Ball?

12 (No response.)

13 MR. BARRON: Is there a Turner Lott here?

14 MR. LOTT: Hi, my name is Turner Lott, 

15 and that's spelled T-U-R-N-E-R, L-O-T-T. And I 

16 appreciate this opportunity today to be in 

17 support of the Environmental Protection Agency's 

18 standards on limiting carbon pollution for power 

19 plants.

20 As a Mississippian I witnessed firsthand 

21 one of the most destructive storms that has hit 

22 the United States, Hurricane Katrina. On the 

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1 morning of August 29th, 2005, Hurricane Katrina 

2 pummeled the Mississippi gulf and brought with it 

3 a massive storm surge that completely flooded 

4 buildings and homes, left 10 million stranded and 

5 in need of assistance.

6 Katrina's storm surge was the highest 

7 ever recorded on the U.S. coast. 27.8 feet at 

8 Pass Christian, Mississippi. In its wake Katrina 

9 damaged some 90,000 square miles and took the 

10 lives of 2,000 people. People had never 

11 witnessed and had not anticipated a storm so 

12 powerful.

13 You may describe Katrina as a natural 

14 disaster, a product of nature that was completely 

15 unaffected our actions; however, I know that

16 operating under the assumption that we play no 

17 part in increasing the severity of storms and 

18 other disasters only further harm cannot help us. 

19 We would not cause disasters to occur more 

20 frequently, but would not decrease their potency 

21 and would not help save lives of Americans.

22 As I speak, people are coping with 

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1 climate change impact. Prolonged heat waves, 

2 more severe droughts that lead to extended 

3 wildfire seasons, and rises in sea level that 

4 threaten to inundate coastal cities and 

5 ecosystems. These disasters do not go unnoticed. 

6 Record does not acknowledge our contribution to 

7 climate change only engenders inaction. And 

8 inaction on climate change will prove too costly.

9 Fortunately, the EPA is fully aware that 

10 climate change is occurring, and human actions 

11 are the main cause. The new proposed standards 

12 seek to cut carbon pollution from its primary 

13 source, power plants. Coal and gas fired power 

14 plants are the single largest source of carbon 

15 pollution in the United States, accounting for 

16 roughly 40 percent of annual global warming 

17 emissions. That is why reducing power plant 

18 emissions is essential in heralding a cleaner 

19 health environment and EPA's new rule to limit 

20 power plants' carbon pollution is the biggest 

21 step our country has taken to reverse climate 

22 change's harmful trend. 

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1 Climate change is the most pressing 

2 problem our nation faces, and I commend the work 

3 EPA has done and continues to do to nurture a 

4 cleaner, safer, and healthier climate. 

5 Now we must turn to our representatives 

6 in Congress and to our state leaders to ease this 

7 critical transition to a cleaner energy policy. 

8 I hope they support EPA's plan without any 

9 objections and seek to implement the plan to the 

10 best of their ability for it is what is best for 

11 our environment, our economy, and our well being. 

12 Thank you.

13 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. I'm 

14 going to check in on a few people whose names 

15 came up earlier now. Is Jonathan Arnon here?

16 (No response.)

17 MR. BARRON: How about Tim Whitcombe?

18 (No response.)

19 MR. BARRON: Okay. Colin Reese?

20 (No response.)

21 MR. BARRON: Janet Miller? It looks like 

22 Janet Miller may come in a moment. Looking for 

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1 Julia Brooks and Chris Lynn. Great.

2 MS. LYNN: Good afternoon, and thank you 

3 for this opportunity to speak to the EPA.

4 My name is Kristina Lynn, and I am a 

5 resident and the face of a community most 

6 impacted by emissions and then so in climate 

7 change. I live one mile from the fence line of 

8 the Delaware City PBF Refinery and one mile from 

9 the Delaware River. My property line backs to a 

10 tidal wetland.

11 Since living in Delaware City for 25 

12 years I have been sheltered and placed twice and 

13 refused entrance into the town due to a refinery 

14 explosion on another occasion. The aquifer that 

15 supplies our drinking water is very close to 

16 becoming compromised.

17 During increasingly severe storms roads 

18 are flooding worse than I have ever seen. The 

19 exits out of Delaware City -- we have three, and 

20 at the present time only two are available.

21 As a former Red Cross volunteer during 

22 Katrina and an oil burner first responder --

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1 response team member with Tri-State Bird Research 

2 and Rescue. I can testify that sea level change 

3 is a real and dangerous thing.

4 Eating crabs and fish from the Delaware 

5 River, once a local staple, is discouraged. Our 

6 local politicians, the industrial complex execs, 

7 the Tar Sands trains execs, and right on up to 

8 the Governor of the State of Delaware assure us 

9 that these operations are clean and safe. Yet in 

10 this Twitter age we do not have real time fence 

11 line emission data collection or reporting.

12 Even with the darn system of emergency 

13 reporting, sometimes it takes days or weeks to 

14 hear of toxic emissions. In January of 2013 we 

15 suffered a toxic release that lasted over a week. 

16 We didn't hear about this release until June of 

17 2013. We didn't hear about it for six months. I 

18 am probably a walking time bomb.

19 The entire state of Delaware is basically 

20 a coastline. Climate change affecting sea level 

21 rise affects every citizen of my state. Progress 

22 is too slow. Aging plants and revolving door 

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1 holding companies offer no long-term safety nets.

2 My local power company, a company held by 

3 PEPCO Holdings, Inc., and soon Exelon, legally 

4 must let customers know what their fuel mix 

5 consists of. The current publication lists the 

6 breakdown as follows: coal, 42.3 percent; gas, 

7 16.9 percent; nuclear, 33.4 percent; and oil, 0.2 

8 percent. The total in renewable energy sources 

9 is 7.3 percent. Let me repeat that. The total 

10 is 7.3 percent.

11 I retired from working in the energy 

12 industry and now work as an elementary and 

13 special education teacher. The school is located 

14 one mile from the refinery and one mile from the 

15 new five-lane Department of Motor Vehicle 

16 inspection station with five lanes of cars 

17 spewing exhaust. Many of the kids and a rising 

18 number of the kids suffer from asthma, and yet 

19 there is no warning system to let the schools 

20 know if the air is clean or spewing toxins. If 

21 it smells bad, the kids stay in. But as you well 

22 know, toxins don't always smell. I suffer 

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1 from a number of ailments which limit the time I 

2 can spend outdoors, especially when air quality 

3 is bad. I come here today to say one main thing. 

4 We can do better than this.

5 You can strengthen the standards for 

6 clean power, raise the bar for sustainable energy 

7 sourcing, and enforce the implementation of 

8 standards that will give our children a brighter, 

9 cleaner, future. Thank you.

10 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

11 Please come on up. We'll work through 

12 the other names shortly.

13 DR. MILLER: I was trying to briefer.

14 Hello, my name is Dr. Janet Miller. I am 

15 a high school science teacher in Delaware. Thank 

16 you for the opportunity to speak about this issue 

17 and these long overdue regulations on carbon 

18 emission.

19 Four years ago I became aware of the 

20 climate change issue as I studied to change 

21 careers and become a science educator. As I read 

22 the data -- as I read about science in general 

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1 and the data on climate change, I was shocked at 

2 the seriousness of the situation. And I couldn't 

3 understand why there was no media attention. 

4 This was during the presidential debates, and I 

5 couldn't understand why it was not part of the 

6 presidential debates, why there wasn't massive 

7 coverage on the condition of our atmosphere.

8 I have tried to understand the lack of 

9 attention to this issue, which in my mind is the 

10 mother of all issues. If we don't have an 

11 ecosystem or a biosphere that supports human 

12 life, then all the other issues don't seem to 

13 matter as much. 

14 And I know there are many, many factors 

15 that determine what causes social change or why 

16 we would address this. The factor I wanted to 

17 talk to you about today was the issue of 

18 scientific literacy, that science processes study 

19 the physical environment that many of those 

20 processes take longer time or a shorter time than 

21 we can observe; they're bigger or smaller than we 

22 can see, and it's very difficult for the average 

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1 person to really understand what's going on, and, 

2 therefore, it's difficult to respond to it. And 

3 I've struggled to figure out how to bring 

4 people's awareness to it and how to educate 

5 students about it without frightening them in 

6 such a way that they don't function.

7 One of my friends is the CEO of a gas 

8 company. And he said to me, Janet, do you know 

9 what percentage carbon dioxide makes -- that 

10 makes up the atmosphere. He said it's less than 

11 one percent. It's too small to make a 

12 difference. And that says to me that this is a 

13 person that really lacks some basic scientific 

14 understanding about how physical processes occur 

15 and how small changes can impact systems and how 

16 one or two degrees change in body temperature can 

17 determine whether you're alive or dead and how a 

18 small change in a complex system can have a 

19 cascading effect that ultimately impacts us all 

20 in a very significant way.

21 Much like a rock that comes down a 

22 mountain and hits other rocks that hit other 

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1 rocks, that hit other rocks and cause an 

2 avalanche, when you're at the top of the 

3 mountain, you don't necessarily realize the 

4 downward impact of what you're doing. And I 

5 think that's one of the challenges that we face 

6 is helping people understand that.

7 So what I'm going to say to you today is 

8 thank you for doing this, for looking into this, 

9 for looking to take action on this. Thank you 

10 for my children. Thank you for my grandchildren, 

11 for all the children that are down the hill from 

12 us.

13 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. And 

14 before you leave, could I just get you to spell 

15 your name for the court reporter?

16 DR. MILLER: J-A-N-E-T is the first name. 

17 M-I-L-L-E-R is the last name.

18 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. And 

19 also, about Kristina Lynn, I just want to make 

20 sure when you head on your way out, make sure 

21 that you have your name spelled correctly for the 

22 record as well.

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1 MS. LYNN: Thank you. It's Kristina, K2 R-I-S-T-I-N-A, Lynn, L-Y-N-N. 

3 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

4 Just checking again for Zach Gargura and 

5 Jim Ball. 

6 Okay. Great, thank you very much. If 

7 you would like to come forward.

8 And is there a Colin Reese here or Kevin 

9 -- he can come in the next group. 

10 DR. BALL: I have written copies. Do you 

11 guys want them?

12 MR. BARRON: You can leave any written 

13 copies of testimony with the registration desk.

14 DR. BALL: Registration desk, okay.

15 MR. BARRON: And before you start, next 

16 up will be Alfonso Lopez and Eric Klein.

17 Please go ahead.

18 DR. BALL: My name is the Reverend Dr. 

19 Jim Ball, Executive Vice President of the 

20 Evangelical Environmental Network. I ask that my 

21 full written statement be included in the record.

22 MR. BARRON: Okay, certainly.

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1 DR. BALL: Thank you for the opportunity 

2 to testify before you today and for your service 

3 to our country.

4 Climate change is one of the great moral 

5 challenges of our age, but overcoming this 

6 challenge also represents one of the most 

7 strategic opportunities to create a better world 

8 that will come before us in our lifetimes.

9 We are grateful that President Obama has 

10 risen to meet this challenge. His Climate Action 

11 Plan will help overcome climate change in ways 

12 that could position America to lead the world in 

13 the coming clean energy revolution, create good 

14 jobs here in America, reduce pollution that fouls 

15 our air and makes our water impure, protect the 

16 health of our children, and build resiliency to 

17 the consequences of climate change both here and 

18 in vulnerable poor nations.

19 A key part of President Obama's climate 

20 efforts is the EPA's Clean Power Plan. When 

21 coupled with proper EPA regulation of methane 

22 leaks in the oil and gas sector, the plan is an 

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1 essential step, the most important one we will 

2 have made to date in overcoming climate change.

3 More than anything, this shows our 

4 nation's resolve that we are finally getting 

5 serious, that our journey has now begun in 

6 earnest, and there's no turning back. This by 

7 itself will spur innovation and investment in the 

8 marketplace.

9 The plan itself should provide states 

10 with maximum flexibility to meet their carbon 

11 reduction goals. EEN's carbon reduction policy 

12 preference is to utilize market-based mechanisms 

13 to price carbon. As such, we ask the EPA to 

14 include in the final rule explicit language 

15 assuring states that a carbon tax -- slash --

16 pollution fee would be an acceptable way to meet 

17 its obligations if it chose to do so.

18 While the Clean Power Plan is essential, 

19 many more steps would be needed to ensure it is 

20 America that leads the clean energy revolution, 

21 our country must make much bigger investments in 

22 basic R and D, not only in energy efficiency and 

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1 clean energy technologies but in how our thinking 

2 can be set free from the self-imposed silos we've 

3 created between energy research and, say, 

4 information technology.

5 During the Cold War years our country 

6 spent 6 percent of GDP on national defense. 

7 Overcoming climate change and leading the clean 

8 energy revolution are arguably as important as 

9 winning the Cold War. We must be ready to spend 

10 Cold War level funding if that's what it takes.

11 We haven't even begun to scratch the 

12 surface of one of the greatest assets a free 

13 country like ours possesses, our own creativity. 

14 And it is our inquisitive freedom loving nature 

15 that should have us leading the way. 

16 Every single one of our ancestors, 

17 beginning at least 18,000 years ago when groups 

18 traversed the land bridge over the Bearing Strait 

19 came from somewhere else in search of a better 

20 life. It's literally in our DNA to look beyond 

21 the horizon, to sail oceans and ford rivers, and 

22 climb mountains, and even go to the moon. It's 

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1 who we are as a people, as Americans.

2 We may be a nation of settlers, but we're 

3 not a nation of those who settle for second best, 

4 for the status quo. We're strivers. We believe 

5 we can create a better future. We believe also 

6 that each person is created equal, that all 

7 should be free to use our God-given gifts, and 

8 abilities, and creativity to make a better life.

9 It is these qualities and values we share 

10 that make us the ones to lead the world in the 

11 clean energy revolution, a revolution that will 

12 benefit every single person, indeed every single 

13 creature on the plant.

14 Overcoming climate change and leading the 

15 clean energy revolution is the next cause of 

16 freedom. Efforts like the President's Climate 

17 Action Plan and the EPA's Clean Power Plan are, 

18 therefore, profound acts of patriotism. Thank 

19 you.

20 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. Do 

21 make sure we get your copies for the record. 

22 Great. Excellent.

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1 Next up we have Alfonso Lopez. Then we 

2 have Virginia and Eric Klein.

3 MR. LOPEZ: Good afternoon. I'm Alfonso 

4 Lopez. I'm a member of the Virginia House of --

5 MR. BARRON: Hold one moment, please. We 

6 have another speaker. We've been trying to do 

7 them in pairs. And then you can go ahead and 

8 join them and then we'll just go on.

9 MR. LOPEZ: Okay. She goes first?

10 MR. BARRON: No, no, you can.

11 MR. LOPEZ: Okay. Hello, I'm Alfonso 

12 Lopez, and I'm a member of the Virginia House of 

13 Delegates. Despite the best efforts in some 

14 corners to ignore it, climate change is a problem 

15 that threatens the Commonwealth of Virginia. Now 

16 whether it's the economic repercussions of sea 

17 level rise on Virginia's coastline, the health 

18 consequences of breathing polluted air, or the 

19 threat of more extreme weather conditions, 

20 climate change is having an impact on the day-to21 day lives of citizens of the Commonwealth.

22 At this time Virginia's coastal region is 

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1 experiencing the highest rates of sea level rise 

2 along the entire east coast of the United States. 

3 In fact, Hampton Roads area is second only to New 

4 Orleans in its vulnerability to sea level 

5 impacts. The Norfolk-Virginia Beach Metropolitan 

6 area is ranked 10th in the world in the value of 

7 assets exposed to the increase in flooding from 

8 sea level rise.

9 We cannot afford to wait any longer to 

10 take action on climate change in Virginia. Our 

11 economy, health, and long-term quality of life 

12 rest in the balance.

13 According to the most recent estimates by 

14 the CDC 8.7 percent of Virginia's adult 

15 population suffers from asthma. In the past 

16 three decades the percentage of Americans with 

17 asthma has more than doubled, and climate change 

18 is putting those Americans at greater risk of 

19 landing in the hospital.

20 In 2012 25 million metric tons of carbon 

21 pollution were emitted from power plants in the 

22 Commonwealth, equal to the year pollution from 

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1 over 5 million cars. This is simply 

2 unacceptable.

3 We have a moral obligation to address 

4 this crisis now so that we do not leave our 

5 children in an environment that's polluted and 

6 damaged beyond repair. 

7 For these reasons I have already strongly 

8 urged the Virginia Department of Environmental 

9 Quality to adopt the guidelines of the 

10 President's Clean Power Plan to address climate 

11 change in the U.S.

12 The EPA's goal is to reduce nationwide 

13 carbon emissions 30 percent below 2005 levels by 

14 2030. This is a reasonable and modest goal that 

15 we can help achieve. Our recent carbon emissions 

16 in Virginia, 32 percent below 2012 levels by 

17 2030.

18 Fortunately, Virginia is already working 

19 to cut emissions in these areas by increasing 

20 renewable energy generation and improving energy 

21 efficiency throughout the Commonwealth. We have 

22 a stated goal of generating 15 percent of our 

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1 electricity from renewable energy by 2025. In 

2 2009 the Obama administration supported or has 

3 supported 87 renewable energy projects in the 

4 Commonwealth. They're now generating enough 

5 energy to power more than 2,000 homes. However, 

6 we should be doing a great deal more to expand 

7 Virginia's solar and offshore wind capacity.

8 Virginia is already currently working to 

9 boost energy efficiency across the Commonwealth 

10 with a goal of cutting energy waste by 10 percent 

11 in 2022 relative to 2006 levels.

12 Virginia’s localities are also taking the 

13 initiative to increase energy efficiency as well. 

14 One example is my home in Arlington County. The 

15 county has committed to reducing its energy 

16 intensity in public buildings 20 percent by 2020 

17 as part of the President's Better Buildings 

18 Challenge. To date Arlington has already 

19 achieved improved energy performance of 12 

20 percent.

21 One other example is our flagship 

22 university, the University of Virginia, which is 

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1 committed to the same goal in 15 million square 

2 feet of university buildings.

3 In recent years Virginia's utility 

4 companies have also determined that it is more 

5 cost effective to convert or shut down 20 of 

6 their oldest and dirtiest coal fired power 

7 plants. In fact -- in fact, between 2008 and 

8 2011 carbon emissions from Virginia's power 

9 sector decreased by over 20 percent.

10 However, while we take -- have taken some 

11 important first steps to shrink carbon emissions 

12 in the Commonwealth, we can and should be doing 

13 so much more to build on this momentum and reduce 

14 carbon pollution.

15 Luckily, the Clean Power Plan gives 

16 Virginia the flexibility and autonomy to continue 

17 our success in crafting Virginia's specific plan 

18 to meet our goals. In addition to helping avoid 

19 the negative consequences of climate change, 

20 bringing down carbon emissions will create new 

21 clean energy jobs and grow our economy in 

22 Virginia.

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1 Neighboring states have already installed 

2 solar capacity at rates 10 to 100 times higher 

3 than the Commonwealth. This untapped solar 

4 capacity means that there is a tremendous 

5 opportunity for Virginia to develop a robust 

6 solar energy market that will create new jobs 

7 throughout Virginia.

8 Virginia's offshore wind resources are 

9 also abundant and unused. The build out of 

10 offshore wind lease area for the first such lease 

11 in the mid Atlantic could provide as many as 

12 10,000 clean energy jobs and power 700,000 homes 

13 with pollution-free energy.

14 Additionally, energy efficiency programs 

15 are the most cost effective way for utility 

16 companies to meet growing demand for electricity. 

17 This program can also reduce -- or strengthen our 

18 economy by creating local jobs that cannot be 

19 outsourced. 

20 Moreover, according to the NREC, modeling 

21 by 2020 alone limits on carbon pollution could 

22 create more than 5,600 new jobs in Virginia and 

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1 contribute 517 million in energy savings for 

2 Virginia households.

3 The solution is great. Implementing this 

4 proposal is an important opportunity for the 

5 Commonwealth of Virginia to address the impacts 

6 of climate change while growing our economy, 

7 creating a more sustainable energy future, and 

8 preserving our environment for future 

9 generations. 

10 I have already urged DBQ and the 

11 McAuliffe administration to give this proposal 

12 every consideration. As a proud member of the 

13 Virginia General Assembly, I look forward to 

14 working with you to fully enact the guidelines 

15 for President Obama's Clean Power Plan here -- or 

16 across the river in the Commonwealth. Thank you 

17 very much.

18 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

19 Could you spell your name, please? 

20 Sorry.

21 MR. LOPEZ: Alfonso Lopez, A-L-F, as in 

22 Frank-O-N-S, as in Sam-O, L-O-P-E-Z.

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1 MR. BARRON: Thank you.

2 MR. KLEIN: Hi, I just want to say that 

3 this clean energy proposal for power plant 

4 regulation of CO2 is an important but small first 

5 step in helping to switch over to a green economy 

6 which is strongly needed because climate change 

7 is the biggest issue that we face right now. 

8 It's an extinction level event which has just 

9 started; and it is something that we need to take 

10 very seriously. Switching to a green economy 

11 will not only create jobs and help the economy, 

12 but it will help future generations who otherwise 

13 will be threatened seriously in their very 

14 survival.

15 And I guess that's all I have to say. I 

16 yield the remainder of the time.

17 MR. BARRON: Great.

18 MR. KLEIN: Thank you.

19 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. Before 

20 you leave, could we get you to spell your name as 

21 well?

22 MR. KLEIN: Okay. Eric Klein, E-R-I-C, 

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1 K-L-E-I-N.

2 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

3 MR. KLEIN: Thank you very much.

4 MR. BARRON: Next up we have Gerry --

5 Gerry Fuller and Jim Schulman. And following 

6 them will be Claudia Malloy and Teja Sathi.

7 And just a reminder, if you can state 

8 your name and spell it before you start?

9 MR. FULLER: Yes, my name is Gerry 

10 Fuller. It's spelled G-E-R-R-Y, F-U-L-L-E-R.

11 Regulations that promote clean power are 

12 important to me. I am an asthmatic. I know 

13 better than most people what it's like not to be 

14 able to breathe clean air, what it's like to gasp 

15 because airways have shut down in response to bad 

16 air. Most of the time it's so easy to take 

17 breathing for granted. We do it about 20 times a 

18 minute day and night and never give it a thought.

19 But when you can't -- when you have to 

20 gasp and strain and are unable to do anything 

21 else -- even think -- because you can't get a 

22 good breath, then you know just how important it 

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1 is to have regulations to protect clean air.

2 I like too bicycle and jog. I have 

3 learned that they are essential to my mental and 

4 emotional health, but when a Code Orange alert is 

5 announced, I can't. I have to stay inside and 

6 guard carefully what I do.

7 I realize that there are people who don't 

8 care much about clean air. Some choose to smoke. 

9 Some have businesses that produce pollution. 

10 Many want the cheapest energy possible. It might 

11 seem that my asthma is a personal problem that 

12 doesn't affect them, but over the course of my 

13 lifetime we have learned that despite the deniers 

14 smoking does kill.

15 Even my brother-in-law Dick who was 

16 convinced that smoking wasn't hurting him and 

17 besides he just couldn't stop until lung cancer 

18 stopped him.

19 I have come to think that we asthmatics 

20 may be the canaries in the coal mine. We are 

21 here to remind you that despite the deniers, 

22 clean air does matter. It is a matter of life 

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1 and breath.

2 I'm also a grandfather. Here's a picture 

3 of my daughter's two children, Tobin and Camwin 

4 [phonetic]. What we do -- what you do matters to 

5 my grandchildren. The world is changing. Cities 

6 grow ever larger. The demand for more energy 

7 seems insatiable knowing how much the world has 

8 changed in my lifetime, it's hard for me to 

9 imagine the world that Camwin and Tobin will live 

10 in when they are my age.

11 But I do know for certain that I don't 

12 want that world to be dirtier, smog filled, or 

13 more polluted.

14 Individually, I try to do my part. Even 

15 though I live in a high-rise condo I participate 

16 in Arlington County's Urban Composting Program. 

17 I routinely separate recyclables from garbage. I 

18 take care to properly dispose of batteries and 

19 computer components.

20 That's not how I grew up. When I was a 

21 kid, we just took everything to the dump. But 

22 now we know that that approach is no longer good 

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1 enough. 

2 Human beings are capable of change even 

3 though it may be hard, even though change might 

4 seem unnecessary or uncomfortable for some, today 

5 I'm asking you to do your part to make the 

6 changes. We can transition from dirty to clean 

7 energy. We can do it aggressively. States can 

8 and should meet new standards for clean, cost 

9 efficient renewable energy. We must empower 

10 workers and communities to transition to a clean 

11 energy economy.

12 As we continue to learn about what 

13 impacts our environment, that knowledge must be 

14 incorporated into new stronger and more effective 

15 regulations. My grandchildren, Tobin and Camwin, 

16 need a sustainable, strong, clean power plan, one 

17 that encourages and, when necessary, requires 

18 that everything and everyone do all they can to 

19 protect, indeed to restore this wonderful blue 

20 wide marble planet. Thank you.

21 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

22 MR. SCHULMAN: Good afternoon, EPA 

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1 leaders and staff. My name is Jim Schulman, 

2 formally spelled J-A-M-E-S, S-C-H-U-L-M-A-N.

3 I am an active member of the D.C. Sierra 

4 Club, the Sierra Waste Committee. I am also the 

5 Treasurer and a member of the Board of Directors 

6 of the Building Materials Reuse Association. The 

7 BMRA is the leading proponent for the 

8 deconstruction and building material reuse 

9 industries.

10 Community Forklift, a used materials 

11 business in the Hyattsville, Maryland, area, 

12 which I founded is a typical BMRA member. 

13 Community Forklift is a net negative carbon 

14 emitter due to the fact that extraction of virgin 

15 raw materials and energy for manufacturing are 

16 not used in the processing of the large quantity 

17 of salvaged building materials sold there.

18 I believe that building material reuse is 

19 a significant element of our energy future. And 

20 the building materials ought to be designed and 

21 manufactured for multiple useful lives. 

22 The BMRA itself is a proud member of the 

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1 American Sustainable Business Council. The ASBC 

2 currently represents over 175,000 large and small 

3 triple bond buying businesses in America. 

4 The ASBC was extremely pleased to be able to 

5 host Administrator Gina McCarthy as a keynote 

6 speaker at its annual business summit last year. 

7 The ASBC is highly supportive of the EPA's 

8 efforts to regulate greenhouse gas emissions from 

9 power plants. The ASBC has also urged the State 

10 Department to disapprove construction of the 

11 Keystone XL Pipeline to pump tar sands oil from 

12 Canada.

13 In general, the BMRA and ASBC are 

14 supportive of EPA's significant and comprehensive 

15 efforts to regulate gases and contribute to 

16 climate change.

17 I speak now regarding some particulars of 

18 the Clean Power Plan not representing any 

19 organization but as a citizen.

20 First, the inclusion of the option for 

21 states to work together in regional groups is 

22 extremely important. It reflects the economic 

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1 and ecological realities of the retail wielding 

2 of power and pollution across state lines.

3 I appreciate the coal ash waste disposal 

4 reductions could be a major silent epithet of the 

5 standard. It will reduce the toxicity of 

6 citizens' land, air, and water over and above 

7 smokestack emission reductions.

8 I also note the reference in the plan to 

9 the consideration that EPA will give to possible 

10 greenhouse gas reductions from land use and 

11 agricultural waste management improvements. 

12 Acknowledging that better land use and waste 

13 management planning can be ways for states to 

14 minimize overall emissions is a route that I hope 

15 some states will take to address the emissions 

16 cost of sprawl and unnecessary ag waste burning 

17 that they create.

18 I am extremely pleased to see that there 

19 is not a strong emphasis in this plan on carbon 

20 capture and storage or enhanced oil recovery for 

21 that matter. Since EPA has identified the high 

22 cost of retrofitting existing plants for this 

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1 purpose, the long term efficacy of carbon capture 

2 and storage is, I believe, unproven. 

3 Because the generation of energy from 

4 burning waste is proven to be less efficient than 

5 burning fossil fuels, I hope that the proposed 

6 standard will also lead to a reduction in waste 

7 to energy projects otherwise known as 

8 incineration. This would be a major enhancement 

9 to U.S. environmental protection.

10 As a resident of the Capitol Hill 

11 neighborhood of Washington, D.C., I urge that the 

12 proposed standard be amended to include in its 

13 scope the regulation of existing government-owned 

14 or operated power plants like the Capitol -- the 

15 Capitol Power Plant. That facility still 

16 occasionally burns coal near where we are today. 

17 Please do not exempt federal or any 

18 unused District of Columbia based facilities from 

19 this standard. There is no question in my mind 

20 that the architect of the Capitol should be 

21 required to comply with National EPA regulations.

22 Ultimately, if fossil fuel generating 

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1 capacity, including natural gas keeps growing 

2 along with the efficiency with which it is 

3 produced, the U.S. will fail to achieve the 

4 objective of cleaning our air. We need to reduce 

5 the burning of fossil fuels, not merely make 

6 burning them more efficient.

7 As a nation I have every confidence that 

8 we can break our addiction to dirty energy, dirty 

9 electricity, and gas-powered automobile use, but 

10 we have been unsuccessfully applying the 

11 equivalent of a nicotine patch for a generation. 

12 It is time to go cold turkey and implement this 

13 flexible carbon reduction plan.

14 Thank you for this opportunity to share 

15 my views.

16 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much. Please 

17 feel free to leave copies of your remarks with 

18 the registration desk if you haven't done so 

19 already.

20 I think we're going to -- we'll proceed 

21 with the group we have before us and then the 

22 next two will be Lara Levinson -- Levison, sorry 

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1 -- and Mollie Simon. And then we may adjourn for 

2 a brief break at that point so everyone can have 

3 a little stretch.

4 So, whenever you're ready, please spell 

5 your name so we can have it accurate in the 

6 record.

7 MS. MALLOY: Sure. My name is Claudia 

8 Malloy, C-L-A-U-D-I-A, M-A-L-L-O-Y. I’m with the 

9 National Wildlife Federation, and I'm here today 

10 to give the testimony of Elizabeth Dell from 

11 Traverse City, Michigan. And Elizabeth's name is 

12 Elizabeth and then D-E-L-L.

13 An April 2014 survey by Yale Climate 

14 Project on Change Communication shows that 68 

15 percent of Americans support regulating carbon 

16 dioxide as a pollutant. Reducing carbon 

17 pollution is essential to avoid the worst 

18 consequences of global warming.

19 In my hometown of Traverse City, 

20 Michigan, we felt these consequences deeply two 

21 years ago when our region's cherry crop was 

22 devastated. March temperatures soared to the 80s 

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1 causing early bud development followed by many 

2 nights of below freezing temperatures that killed 

3 the buds.

4 Michigan's changing climate has made a 

5 negative impasse besides to agriculture. Warmer 

6 and shorter winters harm our snow sport industry. 

7 While ski areas can sometimes make snow, 

8 snowmobiling is completely dependent on snowfall. 

9 The weather's unpredictability can be a deterrent 

10 for all users.

11 Michigan's sport fishing industry valued 

12 at $4 billion is at risk due to rising water 

13 temperatures on lakes, streams, and rivers. It 

14 is harmful to many sport fishing species.

15 Our state has experienced major 

16 infrastructure damage due to extreme rain events, 

17 washing away roads and bridges.

18 We have understood for decades the 

19 detrimental impacts of carbon pollution on our 

20 health. Reducing emissions from coal plants will 

21 save lives and improve the quality of life in our 

22 communities.

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1 Global warming is a crisis unlike many 

2 we've known and demands a response commensurate 

3 with its urgency. However, since Congress has 

4 failed to lead on this problem, the EPA must step 

5 in to do what it can. 

6 The Clean Power Plan offers states the 

7 flexibility to achieve carbon pollution 

8 reductions in ways that can adjust their state's 

9 particular situation. Many states are already 

10 actively moving forward to reduce emissions. And 

11 this will further support their efforts.

12 It creates an opportunity to innovate, 

13 increase investment in clean energy and advance 

14 the United States to become a leader in the new 

15 energy economy.

16 We must stop throwing money and lives 

17 away through our own actions. As Lau Tzu said, 

18 if you do not change direction, you may end up 

19 where you are heading. It's long past time to 

20 change direction, but better now than later.

21 I support the EPA's Clean Power Plan. 

22 Thank you.

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1 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

2 MS. SATHI: Hi, my name is Teja Sathi, 

3 and I'm spelled T-E-J-A, S-A-T-H-I.

4 MR. BARRON: Thank you.

5 MS. SATHI: My name is Teja Sathi, and I 

6 am a senior at Thomas Jefferson High School for 

7 Science and Technology in Alexandria, Virginia. I 

8 am the President of the Environmental Impact Club 

9 at my school and a Youth Leader with the Alliance 

10 for Climate Education or ACE.

11 I can't trace my identity as a climate 

12 optimist to one particular event in my life. 

13 Environmentalism came culturally to me. I grew 

14 up with grandparents who harvest rainwater, take 

15 bucket baths, and creatively recycle. 

16 Conservation is instinctive to me.

17 So when I learned about the Clean Power 

18 Plan, I thought that makes sense. Why hasn't it 

19 already been done?

20 Citing Albert Einstein: Problems cannot 

21 be solved with the same mindset that created 

22 them. We have already established that the 

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1 problem we face is the unacceptable level of 

2 carbon emissions from coal fired power plants, 

3 the largest source of carbon dioxide emissions in 

4 the U.S. The mindset that made this problem 

5 worse is putting the economy first and people's 

6 health second during industrialization. 

7 Now that we have technology that doesn't 

8 endanger consumer health it's time to break free 

9 from that mindset and reduce carbon emissions 

10 from power plants.

11 In order to do this we need to reduce our 

12 demand for dirty energy. We should look into 

13 demand response strategies and smart grid systems 

14 that monitor the usage of electricity by 

15 consumers in order to lower energy consumption.

16 An even more sustainable option is using 

17 renewable energy sources. I'm a huge solar power 

18 enthusiast. It's the largest energy resource on 

19 earth, and we're not taking advantage of it.

20 The solar industry has been the fastest 

21 growing industry in the power sector during the 

22 past eight years. At the same time, the price of 

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1 solar energy has been steadily decreasing from 

2 over to 20 to about 11 cents per kilowatt hour.

3 Energy efficiency programs have typically 

4 delivered cost effective savings of 2.5 cents per 

5 kilowatt hour or less than half the cost of 

6 fossil fuel alternatives.

7 This industry is also responsible for 

8 creating jobs at a greater rate than the general 

9 rate of jobs in America. 

10 We need more encouragement for projects 

11 like the Sunshine Initiative put forth by the 

12 Department of Energy. While designing new solar 

13 technology is not in the hands of every person in 

14 the United States, advocating for the 

15 installation of solar panels is. And that's what 

16 I have been working on during high school.

17 I am a student. I spend most of my time 

18 during the school year at school or thinking 

19 about school. The 1.8 million youth that I 

20 represent through ACE today are students as well. 

21 Schools are big places where we can make change 

22 happen. My school has solar panels, but there 

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1 are very few other schools in the county that do 

2 -- in my county that do.

3 We traced the reason for this back to 

4 soft costs which are the expenses that are not 

5 directly related to the construction of solar 

6 panels. In order to lower soft costs and 

7 encourage more schools and people to go solar, we 

8 need easier and more efficient cost fees in place 

9 to deal with permitting and integration.

10 My club and I are working with our School 

11 Board to make these positive things happen. But 

12 other counties across the nation can benefit from 

13 authority telling them to do so.

14 The EPA has taken the right step with the 

15 Clean Power Plan that is projected to reduce 

16 carbon emissions by 30 percent of the 2005 levels 

17 by the year 2030. I urge the EPA to issue an 

18 ambitious final carbon pollution standard for 

19 existing power plants to address the main cause 

20 of climate change and to protect our health from 

21 its devastating impacts. 

22 I am here today leading the fight against 

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1 climate change and doing my part by testifying at 

2 this public hearing and the previous one engaging 

3 in our democratic process by campaigning for more 

4 just, more sustainable future for all of our 

5 schools and communities.

6 I am hopeful that the EPA will do its 

7 part in protecting my generation and those yet to 

8 come by issuing the strictest carbon standard 

9 possible. Thank you.

10 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

11 I think we'll have two more speakers and 

12 then we'll take a short break. The first is Lara 

13 Levison, and the second is Mollie Simon.

14 MS. LEVISON: Hi, my name is Lara 

15 Levison. That's L-A-R-A, L-E-V-I-S-O-N. Thank 

16 you for this opportunity to testify. First, let 

17 me say that I am testifying as a private citizen 

18 not on behalf of my employer, the U.S. Climate 

19 Action Network, which doesn't take positions.

20 Thank you to EPA and the Administration 

21 for moving forward with standards to reduce 

22 carbon pollution from power plants. 

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1 This morning I ate breakfast with my 

2 four-year-old Goddaughter, Johanna, who is 

3 visiting me for a few days, and I wondered what 

4 her future will be like as climate change 

5 transforms human society and the planet. Johanna 

6 is in her princess phase, and she came to 

7 breakfast wearing her tiara. So she has quite a 

8 rosy view of her own future right now.

9 I fear for my Goddaughter and her 

10 contemporaries, yet the solutions, both 

11 technological and social, are at hand. To quote 

12 a TV show of my youth and to really date myself, 

13 we have the technology. You know what that show 

14 is, guys? All right.

15 MR. BARRON: You're welcome to -–

16 (Laughter)

17 MS. LEVISON: Sorry?

18 MR. BARRON: You're welcome to state it 

19 for the record if you would like.

20 MS. LEVISON: Six Million Dollar Man. 

21 What we need to do is overcome the 

22 political and institutional barriers to energy 

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1 efficiency, renewable energy, and distributed 

2 energy based in our communities, and the 

3 technologies will continue to develop.

4 I'd like to give an example from my own 

5 experience, which is the tremendous growth of 

6 renewable energy in the State of Iowa. In the 

7 1990's I worked for an organization called the 

8 Union of Concerned Scientists which issued a 

9 study called Power Grid Midwest and launched a 

10 public education program called Renewables are 

11 Ready.

12 Iowa already had a renewable electricity 

13 requirement in law thanks to a far-sighted state 

14 legislator, Dave Osterberg, who pushed it through 

15 in 1983. Twelve years later in 1995 the electric 

16 utility serving Iowa under were pressure to 

17 comply with the law, and they had exhausted their 

18 methods of appeal.

19 So they went to the legislature to get 

20 the law repealed. My organization joined with 

21 Renewable Energy Support in Iowa to block repeal 

22 of that law, and it was kept. Now Iowa is a 

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1 leader nationwide and worldwide in wind energy 

2 and politicians across the spectrum in Iowa 

3 support wind energy and renewable energy. So, 

4 this is a stay the course story here.

5 Just as public support and public policy 

6 drove renewable energy development in Iowa, the 

7 Clean Power Plan can drive renewables and 

8 efficiency around the country.

9 I applaud EPA for BSER building blocks 3 

10 and 4 and encourage EPA to strengthen them. For 

11 renewable energy block 3, EPA's assessment of 

12 renewable energy potential can be significantly 

13 higher. Renewables are ready. The 29 states 

14 with renewable portfolio studies have been 

15 achieving renewable targets that increase at 1 to 

16 1.5 percent of state retail electricity sales per 

17 year.

18 U.S. solar total of voltaic's capacity 

19 has increased significantly, nearly tenfold since 

20 2009. We are truly on the verge of the solar 

21 revolution.

22 The vehemence with which electric 

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1 utilities and fossil fuel companies are fighting 

2 distributed solar power is an indicator of the 

3 potential it has to displace polluting 

4 centralized power stations with distributed solar 

5 power that is clean, safe, reliable, and 

6 affordable.

7 MR. BARRON: Better --

8 MS. LEVISON: -- skip some parts.

9 For BSER block 4 on energy efficiency, 

10 EPA has rightly recognized that energy efficiency 

11 is the most cost effective resource to reduce 

12 emissions. This building block should also be 

13 strengthened.

14 EPA set the annual state efficiency 

15 targets at 1.5 percent, but the utility energy 

16 programs have been demonstrated to deliver over 2 

17 percent in annual energy savings. Other 

18 opportunities for energy efficiency, including 

19 transmission and distribution system efficiency 

20 should also be included.

21 Sustainable energy technologies can help 

22 transform our society to a healthier and more 

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1 equitable one by providing community jobs, 

2 cleaning up the air, reducing energy costs, and 

3 turning over the generation of electrical power 

4 to families, churches, and schools.

5 I encourage EPA to examine this draft 

6 also through an environmental justice lens to 

7 make sure that the standard is designed to 

8 maximize its benefits for all Americans including 

9 frontline communities located next to polluting 

10 power plants.

11 And I want to second what Jim Schulman 

12 said about covering plants that aren't covered 

13 -- not currently covered like the Capitol Power 

14 Plant. 

15 But anyway, I wish we would, since I also 

16 live on Capitol Hill.

17 Finally, in light of the global challenge 

18 on climate change, I encourage EPA to increase 

19 the total emissions reductions under the Clean 

20 Power Plan. The goal of the Clean Power Plan 

21 should be to reduce emissions by 30 to 40 percent 

22 below 2005 emissions by the year 2020. That's 30 

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1 to 45 percent below 2005 emissions by 2020.

2 My four-year-old Goddaughter and her 

3 friends are counting on you. So is my 14-year4 old niece, Antonia, though she would be deeply 

5 mortified if she knew I had mentioned her here.

6 Thank you for considering my views.

7 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much.

8 MS. SIMON: Hello, my name is Mollie 

9 Simon. That's M-O-L-L-I-E, S-I-M-O-N.

10 Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to 

11 speak today. My name is Mollie Simon, and I'm a 

12 recent graduate of Villanova University. I 

13 currently work as a Climate and Energy Intern at 

14 National Wildlife Federation.

15 I'm here today to speak in favor of the 

16 EPA's Clean Power Plan and the limits on carbon 

17 pollution for existing power plants.

18 I, among millions of conservation 

19 advocates across the country, am alarmed by what 

20 the future holds for our nation's people, 

21 wildlife, and the natural resources on which we 

22 all depend if we do not act now to address 

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1 climate change and carbon pollution. Our 

2 wildlife and natural places are suffering. It is 

3 passed time that we change course and reshape our 

4 energy future so that we are not dependent on 

5 climate altering pollution.

6 I am proud to be a native of 

7 Pennsylvania. It is biking through Fairmont Park 

8 and hiking in the Poconos where I developed the 

9 conservation values that guide me each day. It is 

10 with this on my mind that I speak to urge the EPA 

11 to finalize a bold and impressive plan to reduce

12 the carbon pollution that fuels climate change 

13 and threatens the treasured landscapes that I 

14 know and love.

15 I also speak today as a person of faith. 

16 I believe that acting to address climate change 

17 and pollution which often disproportionately 

18 plagues the most vulnerable in our communities is 

19 a responsibility that we all share as stewards of 

20 creation.

21 I along with many other millennialists 

22 see climate change as the challenge of our 

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1 generation, a challenge that touches issues 

2 beyond just conservation -- from natural security 

3 to the economy. 

4 I would like to urge the EPA to continue 

5 to work with states to put in place plans that 

6 will encourage even more renewable energy and 

7 energy efficiency development rather than 

8 incentivizing the expansion of other fossil fuels 

9 like natural gas that only furthers our 

10 dependence on carbon polluting fuels.

11 Now is the time to set forward a bold 

12 energy vision for this country using all the 

13 tools we have at our disposal. 

14 I want to thank the EPA for showing 

15 leadership on addressing climate change and 

16 moving forward with setting standards for carbon 

17 pollution from existing power plants. I look 

18 forward to a day when America is no longer bound 

19 to the dirty fossil fuel energy but powered by 

20 clean renewable energy. Thank you.

21 MR. BARRON: Thank you very much for 

22 taking the time today, both of you.

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1 I think it might be appropriate to take a 

2 short break. So I think we'll take a 15-minute 

3 break and that would have us reconvening at 4:10 

4 for any --

5 (Brief recess.)

6 EVENING SESSION

7 EPA PANEL 3

8 MR. PAGE: Good evening, everybody. 

9 Thank you for being here. My name is Steve Page, 

10 and I am the Director of the Office of Air 

11 Quality, Planning, and Standards in the Office of 

12 Air and Radiation, the office -- one of the 

13 office that had primary responsibility for 

14 developing the proposal for the Clean Power Plan.

15 And with me tonight we've got a couple of 

16 other folks who -- you guys introduce yourselves 

17 and --

18 MR. ESCHMANN: My name is Erich Eschmann 

19 in the Office of Atmospheric Programs.

20 MR. ELMAN: And I'm Barry Elman in the 

21 Office of Policy.

22 MR. PAGE: And the reason we're speaking 

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1 so officially into the microphone is that we have 

2 a court reporter, which is relevant for you all 

3 because everything that you say tonight will be 

4 in your testimony will be transcribed and 

5 submitted as part of the record.

6 And I've got a little bit more 

7 information on that before we get started. I 

8 have to, which is part of my formal duties, read 

9 the opening statement here as is the custom for 

10 all of the -- the hearings that have been taking 

11 place.

12 The other thing I'll tell you before we 

13 start is, speaking for myself, but I think for 

14 the other two, some people consider this one of 

15 the most important aspects of our jobs at EPA. 

16 We develop a proposal, there are lots of 

17 different options we could have come out with, 

18 but for us putting it out there and getting 

19 public comment on it to us is really the most 

20 important part of the process for us.

21 And then we come back and we take what 

22 comments we get, and we shape it up, and we 

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1 provide a sense of that to our bosses, the 

2 administrators, about the kind of public comment 

3 we got on the various issues, and then that's how 

4 the proposal then turns into a final. All right?

5 And that's -- makes it sounds very 

6 simple. It's a long process, and it's very 

7 complicated, but this is essentially it. All 

8 right.

9 So I am going to read this statement and 

10 then we're going to start in. We're here today 

11 to listen to your comments on two proposed rules 

12 to reduce carbon pollution from power plants. 

13 EPA announced both of these proposed rules on 

14 June 2nd, 2014.

15 Power plants are the largest source of 

16 carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 

17 roughly one third of all domestic greenhouse gas 

18 emissions. The first rule is EPA's proposed 

19 Clean Power Plan for existing power plants. This 

20 proposal consists of two main parts: state 

21 specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 

22 power plants and guidelines to help states 

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1 develop their plans for meeting the goals.

2 This proposal gives states flexibility in 

3 determining how to meet their goals. States will 

4 choose what goes into their plans that show how 

5 they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 

6 their goals by 2030.

7 The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 

8 address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 

9 and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 

10 set emissions limits for two groups of power 

11 plants, those that make physical or operational 

12 changes that increase the plant's maximum 

13 achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 

14 that replace components to such an extent that 

15 the new components exceed 50 percent of the 

16 capital cost of an entirely new comparable 

17 facility.

18 If you would like more details on either 

19 of these proposed, there are fact sheets 

20 available near the registration desk where you 

21 came in.

22 Today's hearing is one of four public 

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1 hearings the EPA is holding across the country 

2 this week on the two proposed rules. We've had 

3 tremendous interest in each of these hearings, 

4 and I would like to thank you all again for 

5 taking time out of your day -- and in this case 

6 evening -- to join us and share your comments.

7 We have many people signed up to speak, 

8 and we want to her from all of them, so before we 

9 get started, I will go through a few housekeeping 

10 items and ground rules that will make today's 

11 hearing run smoothly.

12 First, please be sure that you've checked 

13 in with the registration desk even if you're not 

14 planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 

15 speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 

16 you're here, please step out to the registration 

17 desk and let the EPA staff know there that you've 

18 arrived.

19 Second, if you are a speaker, you were 

20 given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 

21 or Room B. This is Room B. Are you -- so the 

22 question for you is are you in the right room. 

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1 If not, this is a good time to switch.

2 All right. Here's how we're going to 

3 work the hearing coming up. I will call the 

4 speakers up in pairs, and when your name is 

5 called, please come to the table at the front of 

6 the room. When I call on you to speak, please 

7 state your name and spell it for the court 

8 reporter. Your comments will be transcribed and 

9 included in the record of -- in the record of 

10 comments on the proposed rule as I said earlier.

11 Each speaker will have five minute to 

12 give comments. We have a light to help you know 

13 how much time you have left to speak. 

14 Barry, where is the light?

15 MR. ELMAN: It's right over here.

16 MR. PAGE: Okay. Very good. Okay. 

17 There's where the light is.

18 When the light turns from green to 

19 yellow, that means you have one minute. When it 

20 turns red, that's a signal to wrap up your 

21 testimony. The light will flash red and then 

22 beep when you have spoken for five minutes and 

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1 it's time to stop.

2 When you're finished speaking, please 

3 remain at the table until the person next to you 

4 has completed his or her testimony. 

5 We are here to listen to you today, 

6 however, a panel member may ask you some 

7 questions to clarify any -- some of your comments 

8 that you might have made.

9 We will then call up the next pair of 

10 speakers and then so on.

11 If you've brought a written copy of your 

12 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 

13 registration desk before you leave today. Those 

14 are very helpful for us.

15 Because of the large number of people who 

16 signed up and to be fair to everyone, we're going 

17 to have to strictly enforce the five-minute 

18 limit. If you have additional comments you'd 

19 like to make, you can submit them in writing. 

20 And let me assure you that EPA gives just as much 

21 consideration to comments we receive in writing 

22 as we do comments we receive at the public 

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1 hearings like this one.

2 So if you have more that you would like 

3 to say, please submit it. Your comments will be 

4 reviewed.

5 There is still plenty of time to get 

6 written comments in, and there are comment cards 

7 available at the registration desk. Comments 

8 must be received by October 16th, 2014. We'll 

9 put any written comments submitted today in the 

10 official docket for the proposed rule.

11 Instructions for submitting written 

12 comments in other ways are available at the 

13 materials table near the registration desk.

14 We are scheduled to go till 8:00 o'clock 

15 tonight and -- let's see. If -- yeah, and if you 

16 have any questions during that time, please see 

17 the staff at the registration desk. Someone will 

18 try to help you.

19 Finally, I want to ask each of you to 

20 please be respectful of everyone who speaks 

21 today. We have people with a wide variety of 

22 views in the audience, and we want to hear from 

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1 all of you.

2 We ask that you listen quietly and 

3 respectfully to everybody else so they can be 

4 heard. Even applause can slow things down, and 

5 we want to hear from everyone who has signed up 

6 to speak.

7 Thank you again for taking the time to 

8 share your comments on EPA's proposed rules. 

9 Let's get started.

10 The first speakers that we have tonight 

11 coming up two at a time are Charles Rories and 

12 Spencer Schecht.

13 So just as a reminder, when I call on you 

14 to speak, please state your name and spell it for 

15 the court reporter.

16 Charles, please begin.

17 MR. RORIES: Charles Rories, 

18 R-O-R-I-E-S.

19 Good evening, my name is Charles Rories, 

20 and I live in Burke, Virginia. I am a biologist. 

21 I have done biomedical research at the Mayo 

22 Clinic's School of Medicine and the National 

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1 Cancer Institute, worked as a patent examiner at 

2 the U.S. Patent Office, and recently taught 

3 evening classes in introductory biology at 

4 Northern Virginia Community College.

5 I want to thank the EPA for this 

6 opportunity to present my comments on the new 

7 proposed rule to limit carbon emissions from 

8 existing power plants.

9 I believe that sharply reducing our 

10 emissions of carbon dioxide and methane is 

11 critical for our health and well being, for the 

12 economic future of our country, and to preserve 

13 the rich diversity of plant and animal life in 

14 our environment.

15 I strongly approve of the new proposed 

16 rule and see it as a vital step towards reducing 

17 our use of fossil fuels.

18 Global warming imposes on us an extensive 

19 list of harms to our health, our quality of life, 

20 our property, and the environment. In view of 

21 the high costs of these damages I ask that the 

22 proposed rule be made even stronger before it is 

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1 finalized.

2 To reduce our emissions of greenhouse 

3 gases we must increase our use of renewable 

4 sources of electricity such as wind and solar 

5 energy. Clean energy sources such as wind and 

6 solar power in combination with the smart grid 

7 can provide a significant share of energy demand, 

8 thereby reducing reliance on carbon emitting 

9 fuels.

10 So I urge you to finalize the rule and 

11 strongly encourage the states to use renewable 

12 energy in compliance so that by 2030 the carbon 

13 emissions of the power sector can be reduced by 

14 up to 50 percent or more from today's levels.

15 Coastal flooding, sea level rising is one 

16 of the most damaging effects of global warming. 

17 We can predict that millions of Americans who 

18 live in coastal areas will have to abandon their 

19 homes and move inland to escape flooding caused 

20 by rising sea levels. Enormous costs will be 

21 imposed as coastal cities recover from and 

22 protect against flooding. 

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1 Many effects of global warming cannot be 

2 predicted. Some areas will receive more rain 

3 while other areas where people live and have 

4 farms may experience years of drought and 

5 desertification. Increasing temperatures, 

6 reduced yields of wheat and corn would stimulate 

7 the growth of many invasive weeds. Warmer 

8 temperatures and higher CO2 levels not only make 

9 poison ivy grow faster, but they stimulate it to 

10 produce higher levels of the oil that causes 

11 itching and blistering.

12 Higher temperatures also increase the 

13 spread of insect-borne diseases. Mosquitoes that 

14 carry Dengue fever, West Nile virus, and malaria, 

15 and tics carrying Lyme disease are able to expand 

16 their ranges to higher latitudes and altitudes as 

17 temperatures rise.

18 Warmer temperatures also allow invasive 

19 and disease-carrying insects to be active for 

20 more months of the year to survive the winters in 

21 greater numbers. And these entail with many 

22 health costs.

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1 Likewise, the reaches of many plant pests 

2 and pathogens and the amount of harm that pests 

3 and pathogens do to crops also increase as 

4 temperatures grow warmer.

5 The plants and animals in environmental 

6 ecosystems interact with each other in ways that 

7 are critical for their survival. Rising 

8 temperatures disrupt these networks of

9 interactions in unpredictable ways with the 

10 inevitable result that many species that cannot 

11 adapt to the changing environment will become 

12 threatened and may go extinct.

13 We see this happening already. For 

14 example, in Greenland many caribou calves died 

15 from lack of food because when the animals arrive 

16 at the feeding grounds, the plants that were once 

17 lush and plentiful there can no longer be found. 

18 The arrival of the caribou at the feeding grounds 

19 is regulated by day length, but the plants' 

20 growth is regulated by temperature. As a result 

21 of warming temperatures, the caribou's food 

22 plants have already flourished and died by the 

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1 time that the caribou arrive. So the calves must 

2 go hungry.

3 For many years the U.S. and other 

4 industrialized nations have produced and used 

5 enormous quantities of fossil fuels and enjoyed 

6 the economic benefits thereof with no thought to 

7 the consequences of releasing carbon into the 

8 atmosphere. Those times are passed.

9 As the world's greatest democracy, the 

10 U.S. must demonstrate foresight, responsibility 

11 and innovation in leading the world to develop a 

12 healthy economy that does not depend on burning 

13 carbon-based fuels.

14 Again, I want to applaud the EPA for 

15 developing these new proposed rules and urge you 

16 to continue boldly in this direction and set as 

17 high a standard as possible to reduce fossil fuel 

18 emissions and stimulate the use of renewable 

19 energy by the states. Thank you.

20 MR. PAGE: Thank you, Mr. Rories. Mr. 

21 Schecht?

22 MR. SCHECHT: Thank you for that perfect 

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1 pronunciation of my name. My name is Spencer 

2 Schecht, S-P-E-N-C-E-R, S-C-H-E-C-H-T.

3 Thank you all so much, everyone in this 

4 room and especially to you three who I presume 

5 have been here for many hours listening to people 

6 talk. That can be very trying.

7 I did not plan on being here today. I 

8 was just walking by and I felt it was my -- my 

9 duty to be here and sacrifice the time, my life 

10 to be here and talk about this issue because it 

11 is the most important issue of our time, and 

12 indeed of our species.

13 I don't have a prepared statement, but I 

14 wrote down some things that I believe are very 

15 important. I -- I grew up in Long Island, and I 

16 was there when Hurricane Sandy passed through and 

17 we were without power for five days. And I saw 

18 the gas lines that were going for hours and 

19 hours. 

20 It was -- it was kind of like this 

21 glimpse of what the apocalypse might look like. 

22 People were really freaked out, and then the 

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1 power came back on, and the gas came back, 

2 everything was fine. We just went on with our 

3 lives and -- and made me really realize that this 

4 -- this is what we can expect with climate 

5 change. And that compounded across the country 

6 and stretching our resources thin having to deal 

7 with these not on a century basis but on a decade 

8 or possibly yearly basis.

9 We live in extraordinary times, and we 

10 have extraordinary opportunities available to us. 

11 We have massive control over the atom, over our 

12 bodies, and now over the fundamental habitability 

13 of this planet.

14 The science has settled that releasing 

15 greenhouse gases into the atmosphere changes what 

16 we regard as nature, what we have thought to 

17 relinquish to the winds and the gods we know we 

18 cannot control over. And the biggest variable in 

19 these climate models is what are we going to do 

20 about it.

21 So, what are we going to do about it? 

22 The fate of the habitability of the planet is in 

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1 our hands, and that is not hyperbole. And it is 

2 more diabolical than the threat faced during the 

3 Cold War where we might have blown ourselves up. 

4 Instead, we are silently releasing the invisible 

5 and odorless gas into the atmosphere that is 

6 threatening us in diabolical ways. So what are 

7 we going to do about it?

8 This is an amazing opportunity for us to 

9 take a stand and say this is right, say that this 

10 is good policy; this is good for America; this is 

11 good for the world; this is good for future 

12 generations. It makes sense on so many levels, 

13 and we shouldn't let a noisy well-funded minority 

14 tell us otherwise.

15 We must act before the unavoidable 

16 becomes the overwhelming. Personal action can 

17 only go so far. I went to graduate school to 

18 study climate policy, and I am now paid to be a 

19 climate communicator. But I can only do so much. 

20 If I never drove or took a plane, or ate a piece 

21 of meat again in my life, it would have a zero 

22 impact on greenhouse the gas emissions that are 

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1 causing climate change. It is the structural 

2 change that we need to see. 

3 And this is exactly that. This is the 

4 opportunity to make the changes that we need to 

5 see in order to avoid the worst scenarios in 

6 life. It's also an opportunity for America to 

7 take a stand, and I'm going to echo Charles' 

8 sentiments on that. This is an opportunity for 

9 America to lead, to show responsibility, and to 

10 show pro-activeness.

11 But I would also like to mention I think 

12 it should be put into the rhetoric of this -- of 

13 these actions that it is acceptable for states to 

14 impose a carbon tax as part of their 

15 -- as part of their plan, particularly the model 

16 where a tax is imposed upstream in the economy 

17 where the fuel is extracted and then returned 

18 evenly to all households and by the free market. 

19 Thank you all very much for your time.

20 MR. PAGE: Thank you, Mr. Schecht. All 

21 right. Thank you. Gentlemen, thank you.

22 The next speakers are Samantha Spaccasi, 

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1 and Kate McCloud. And I'll apologize right now 

2 for wrangling any names in advance, but you'll 

3 have a chance to correct the record.

4 Very good. Which one is Samantha?

5 (Indicating.)

6 MR. PAGE: All right. And you'll please 

7 correct the pronunciation of your name if you 

8 need to.

9 MS. SPACCASI: No, you pronounced it just 

10 fine. 

11 MR. PAGE: Okay. Great. All right. All 

12 right. If you'll spell it then, that would be 

13 great for the court reporter.

14 MS. SPACCASI: Sure. My name is Samantha 

15 Spaccasi. That's S-P-A-C-C-A-S-I. I'm a 

16 sophomore at Oberlin College majoring in 

17 environmental studies with a concentration in 

18 environmental justice. And my hometown is 

19 Darnestown, Maryland. I'm also the Clean Water 

20 intern at the Sierra Club Maryland Chapter.

21 At school I campaign against the 

22 dangerous process of fracking. If it isn't 

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1 already obvious, protecting the environment is my 

2 passion. I would like the EPA for this 

3 opportunity to testify.

4 My family roots, I am Hawaii. My great 

5 grandmother, a Korean picture bride, was shipped 

6 off to marry my great grandfather and start a 

7 home on the plantation. Growing up I heard 

8 fantastic stories about this beautiful land with 

9 its lush forests, with crystal clear waters, and 

10 diverse wildlife. I've had the fortune to visit 

11 this land many times, and each time I return, I'm 

12 amazed by how much these people care about and 

13 work with the land they live in.

14 Walking off the airplane, the air 

15 immediately smells of flowers and feels 

16 refreshing and healthy. Breathing in Hawaii is 

17 unlike breathing anywhere else. 

18 When I come back to Maryland, I 

19 immediately feel suffocated. No, it's not 

20 because of the natural humid climate. It's 

21 because -- and I quote -- Maryland suffers from 

22 worst air quality on the Atlantic coast. And 

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1 that's a quote from the Maryland Beyond Coal 

2 Campaign. Only 5 out of the 13 coal plants have 

3 modern pollution-cutting technology for both 

4 sulfur dioxide and smog-causing nitrogen oxides. 

5 What's most disappointing, however, is that none 

6 of these five are using their technology to the 

7 maximum extent possible to reduce pollution.

8 I live a mere 10 miles away from one of 

9 my state's dirtiest coal plants, the Dickerson 

10 Power Plant. And for 19 years -- 19 years -- I 

11 have been breathing the air from this toxic power 

12 plant. My entire family, from my grandparents to 

13 my little baby cousins, live in Maryland, too --

14 very close to the power plant as well.

15 They, too, have been breathing this 

16 dangerous air most or all of their lives. But 

17 thanks to the good work done by the EPA maybe 

18 something will finally be done to increase the 

19 air quality in my home state. 

20 EPA, I laud you for taking action on 

21 climate change and protecting Americans' health 

22 while still making it possible to maintain an 

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1 affordable energy system. Thank you for seeing 

2 that cutting carbon emissions will not hurt our 

3 economy. These actions are so significant 

4 towards taking a step in the complicated battle 

5 of climate change.

6 Reducing emissions is important but also 

7 is taking the time to promote and increase 

8 subsidies for renewable energy. Renewables are 

9 clean, healthy, and can be adopted to our 

10 infrastructure. The installation of these 

11 healthy energy sources are also sources for much12 needed jobs. They can make the U.S. energy 

13 independent in a clean and powerful way.

14 I beg you not to bend to the winds of the 

15 greedy coal industry, intent on increasing profit 

16 at the expense of the health of thousands of 

17 Americans. These rules proposed are beyond 

18 reasonable and practical. 

19 Thank you so much for taking initiative 

20 to protect my generations and future generations' 

21 ability to breathe easy. And thank you again for 

22 allowing me this opportunity to testify before 

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1 you.

2 MS. PAGE: Thank you. 

3 MS. HOLBROOK MCLEOD: Hi, my name is 

4 Kathleen Holbrook McLeod. It's K-A-T-H-L-E-E-N, 

5 Holbrook, H-O-L-B-R-O-O-K, McLeod, M-C-L-E-O-D. 

6 And that's capital L-E-O-D. I am a volunteer in 

7 the D.C. chapter of the Sierra Club. I have 

8 lived in Washington, D.C., for at least 30 years.

9 The Washington, D.C., Baltimore area is 

10 rated a ninth in the nation for high ozone 

11 levels. WebMD online said the following: 

12 Commuters spewing exhaust from their cars cause 

13 most of this area's worst ozone pollution days 

14 during the last few years.

15 But the problem isn't just home grown. 

16 Dirty air also blows in from coal fire plants as 

17 far away as Georgia and Ohio. It is stunning to 

18 think that coal power plants from Georgia and 

19 Ohio could be polluting the very air we breathe 

20 right now. Toxic chemical pollution for coal 

21 powered plants can travel hundreds of miles, 

22 impacting places far from the original plant 

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1 site.

2 Living in a place with such high levels 

3 of air pollution can lead to high rates of asthma 

4 and other respiratory problems. D.C. has a very 

5 high rate of asthma, especially among inner city 

6 children.

7 I grew up in Pennsylvania and never had 

8 asthma there, but I have had allergic asthma 

9 while living in Washington, D.C. At times it was 

10 so serious that I took off work, and I could not 

11 go outside, especially on days with poor air 

12 quality. What helped most was getting away to 

13 where the air was much cleaner. I no longer had 

14 to carry an asthma inhalator, but I also try to 

15 limit my exposure to air pollution as much as 

16 possible. There are days in D.C. where I just 

17 can't get a breath of fresh air.

18 Coal-powered plants are described as the 

19 dirtiest type of energy. The American Lung 

20 Association reported in 2011 that coal power 

21 plants produced more hazardous air emissions than 

22 any other industrial pollution source. These 

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1 dangers and dirty emissions include 386,000 tons 

2 of 84 separate air pollutants from over 400 

3 plants in 46 states. 

4 The acid gases create acid rain. There 

5 are hazards from benzene and other compounds --

6 from dioxin and furans, formaldehyde, lead, 

7 arsenic and other heavy metals. And one of the 

8 heavy metals released is mercury. Coal-powered 

9 plants are a major source of mercury pouring into 

10 waterways. 

11 A Sierra Club Magazine article reported 

12 the following: When EPA researchers tested 

13 predatory and bottom-dwelling fish in 500 U.S. 

14 lakes and reservoirs in 2009, they found mercury 

15 in each and every one. Close to half of the fish 

16 and levels so high they were unsafe to eat.

17 Another 2009 study by the U.S. Geological 

18 Survey found mercury-contaminated fish into the 

19 291 streams and rivers tested. Mercury pollution 

20 causes U.S. waters to be closed to fishing more 

21 than it does any other source of contamination.

22 Seafood is a major source of mercury 

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1 exposure and mercury poisoning in the U.S. Tuna 

2 is the fish most associated with mercury 

3 poisoning, including sushi. Many doctors and 

4 researchers believe that tuna has such high 

5 levels of mercury that pregnant women and young 

6 children should not eat tuna at all. And some 

7 doctors now advise patients to avoid seafood 

8 altogether.

9 This is one of the high prices of coal

10 powered plants spewing so much mercury into the 

11 environment along with other dangerous toxins. 

12 Moving away from coal-powered plants and moving 

13 toward as much cleaner sources of energy such as 

14 solar could dramatically reduce the amount of 

15 mercury in the environment over time.

16 The National Resources Defense Council 

17 advises not consuming the following seafood due 

18 to the very high level of mercury: ahi tuna, 

19 bigeye tuna, swordfish, marlin, orange roughy, 

20 king mackerel, tilefish, and shark. 

21 The NDRC recommends eating the following 

22 only a few times a month if at all. These are 

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1 fish high in mercury: canned albacore tuna, 

2 yellow fin tuna, Chilean sea bass, bluefish, 

3 grouper, Spanish mackerel, Gulf mackerel.

4 The NDRC recommends eating six or less 

5 servings of the following each month due to the 

6 moderate level of mercury -- and some of these 

7 have gone up in levels: carp, Alaskan cod, white 

8 Pacific croaker, Atlantic halibut, Pacific 

9 halibut, silverside Jacksmelt, lobster, mahi 

10 mahi, monk fish, freshwater perch, sable fish, 

11 skate, snapper, canned chunk light tuna, skipjack 

12 tuna, and sea trout.

13 Please note that seafood is too high in 

14 mercury for us to eat, also poisons wild fish --

15 wildlife such as eagles, river otters, common 

16 loons, great egrets, raccoons, minks, and even 

17 the nearly extinct Florida panthers. 

18 I strongly believe that moving to cleaner 

19 sources of energy will mean less burdening other 

20 toxins in the waterways. I also believe it will 

21 mean cleaner air and support the EPA proposals. 

22 Thank you for your time.

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1 MR. PAGE: Thank you all very much for 

2 your testimony.

3 Jane Kirchner and Wendy Fleit. 

4 (Pause.) Great. Thank you. Jane?

5 MS. KIRCHNER: How did you know that I 

6 was Jane?

7 MR. PAGE: What's that?

8 MS. KIRCHNER: How did you know I was 

9 Jane?

10 MR. PAGE: You looked ready.

11 MS. KIRCHNER: I'm Jane Kirchner, 

12 K-I-R-C-H-N-E-R. And first of all, thank you 

13 very much for allowing me to submit comments 

14 tonight. And I will actually will be submitting 

15 testimony for Connor Bambrick of the 

16 Environmental Advocates of New York. 

17 Would you like me to spell his last name?

18 MR. PAGE: That would be good.

19 MS. KIRCHNER: B-A-M-B-R-I-C-K.

20 Carbon pollution is having a major impact 

21 on our health, our environment, and our economy. 

22 Poor air quality is making our children sick and 

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1 shortening the lives of some seniors. Rising 

2 temperatures, prolonged heat waves, and severe 

3 storms are costing our economy billions in lost 

4 production and infrastructure and property 

5 damage.

6 In directing the U.S. Environmental 

7 Protection Agency to move forward with the Clean 

8 Power Plan, President Obama has demonstrated the 

9 leadership needed to finally address one of the 

10 root causes of our changing climate. 

11 The proposed rule establishes the first 

12 national standard for regulating climate 

13 pollution from the country's power center. It 

14 comes on the heels of a previous rule that sets 

15 carbon standards for plant to be built in the 

16 future. That standard garnered the support of 

17 bipartisan groups of 50 New York State 

18 legislators.

19 The Clean Power Plan aims to cut power 

20 plant climate pollution by 30 percent of 2005 

21 levels by the year 2030. Since fossil-fuel 

22 fired power plants are responsible for one-third 

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1 of the nation's climate altering greenhouse gas 

2 emissions, it is only correct to target them for 

3 reduction.

4 These actions will benefit the health and 

5 safety of our most vulnerable populations, 

6 driving a 25-percent cut in soot and smog-causing 

7 pollution, key contributors to heart and 

8 respiratory diseases.

9 Asthma is especially prevalent in New 

10 York with an estimated 1.7 million people 

11 suffering from the disease. According to the New 

12 York State Comptroller, the state's asthma13 related Medicaid expenditures rose nearly 26 

14 percent in the last five years adding up to 1.3 

15 billion in health care costs and lost work-force 

16 productivity.

17 Reducing power plant pollution will help 

18 avoid 2,700 to 6,600 premature deaths, 150,000 

19 asthma attacks in children and billions of 

20 dollars in health care costs nationwide.

21 By setting state-by-state goals for 

22 climate pollution reductions, the EPA is 

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1 providing the states with the flexibility they 

2 need to develop innovative plans designed to spur 

3 job growth in the clean energy sector, lower 

4 consumer utility costs, and improved health 

5 outcomes.

6 New York State is uniquely positioned as 

7 a leader on this front. The state already has 

8 strict power plant carbon pollution standards for 

9 yet un-built plants and our participation in the 

10 Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, RGGI -- and 

11 the successful clean energy and energy efficiency 

12 programs it has spawned -- are being showcased as 

13 a national model.

14 Today in the RGGI region, climate 

15 pollutant emissions from the power sector are 

16 more than 40 percent lower than they were when 

17 RGGI was initiated in 2005. New rules 

18 implemented in 2014 lowered the regional carbon 

19 count by 45 percent, locking in emission 

20 reductions already achieved and placing the 

21 region on a path to cut carbon pollution by an 

22 additional 10 percent by 2018.

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1 The multi-state initiative operates as a 

2 carbon cap and trade program with power plant 

3 owners required to purchase allowances for each 

4 ton of CO2 produced. RGGI allowance auctions 

5 have, thus far, generated over 1.75 billion. 

6 Those funds have been sent back to the states 

7 where they have been invested in a variety of 

8 consumer benefit initiatives, including energy 

9 efficiency, renewable energy, direct bill 

10 assistance, and climate pollution reduction 

11 programs.

12 New York has benefitted from well over 

13 600 million in auction proceeds of which 400 

14 million has been allocated to renewable power, 

15 efficiency, and clean energy technology and 

16 market innovation programs -- creating jobs, 

17 lowering consumer costs, and driving further 

18 reductions in emissions.

19 To date, RGGI programs have provided 

20 energy bill savings and other benefits to more 

21 than 130,000 households and 2,500 businesses 

22 spanning all of New York State's 62 counties.

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1 Environmental Advocates supports the 

2 Clean Power Plan and strongly encourage the EPA 

3 to offer up New York's and the other northeast 

4 states' experience with RGGI as a demonstration 

5 of climate action driving positive economic, 

6 public health, and environmental outcomes. In 

7 addition, we urge EPA to establish carbon 

8 reduction targets for New York that will drive 

9 the state to continue to improve and expand its 

10 commitments to climate pollution reductions and 

11 investments in clean energy across all economic 

12 sectors. Thank you very much.

13 MR. PAGE: Thank you, Ms. Kirchner.

14 Wendy?

15 MS. FLEIT: Thank you. My name is Wendy 

16 Fleit, F-L-E-I-T. Thank you for holding these 

17 hearings on the Clean Power Plan. And I 

18 appreciate the opportunity to make my voice 

19 heard.

20 Though I am no expert on energy policy, I 

21 know that the sooner we take responsibility for a 

22 clean environment, clean air and water to go 

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1 along with our electric power, the better it will 

2 be for our people, our nation, and the world.

3 We can afford to be responsible for 

4 reducing our carbon emissions and other 

5 pollutants associated with power generation. As 

6 one of the richest nations in the world, it is 

7 our responsibility to take a leadership position 

8 on clean air, clean water, and a clean 

9 environment.

10 I am a mom, a wife, a daughter, a 

11 daughter-in-law, a sister, a sister-in-law, and 

12 if I’m lucky some day, I will be a mother-in-law 

13 and a grandmother. And everyone I am related to 

14 and everyone you are related to benefits by 

15 having clean air.

16 The literature -- the literature talks 

17 about how we can save $7 in health care costs for 

18 every dollar investment. To my mind though 

19 health care savings may be used to justify the 

20 monies invested, making the investment is, in 

21 fact, a responsibility as stewards of this 

22 incredible planet on which we live.

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1 All of us having a healthier place to 

2 live and breathe is more important than the 

3 monies the investment would cost each of us. The 

4 Clean Power Plan with cleaner power and cleaner 

5 air is the right thing to do.

6 As I think about the Clean Power Plan, my 

7 mind turns to China. A colleague of mine was 

8 visiting family there. I asked if she wanted to

9 learn -- to return to China to live. In reply 

10 she said that when she was in Beijing, the sky 

11 was gray and low due to pollution. No blue 

12 skies, no sunshine. And she, her son, and 

13 husband could not leave the hotel for all of the 

14 time they were there due to the unhealthy air. I 

15 am so thankful that we have pollution standards, 

16 pollution controls here in our country.

17 Yes, complying with pollution regulation 

18 costs money, but the result benefits all of us. 

19 We have been where China is. We have had burning 

20 rivers and acid rain killing lakes and forests. 

21 I hope China will wake up to the cost of their 

22 actions sooner rather than later.

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1 As I prepared my testimony, a recent trip 

2 to Spain also came to mind. As we drove through 

3 the countryside, we came upon wind turbines 

4 generating clean energy for Spain. They were in 

5 numerous places. We found them everywhere. As 

6 part of everyday life, Spain is taking 

7 responsibility for clean power.

8 As a resident of Maryland, neighbor to 

9 Pennsylvania, I also want to say that I have 

10 concerns about natural gas obtained through 

11 fracking. Not all natural gas is clean. The 

12 extraction of some of it poisons our groundwater. 

13 Please let us wake up to the long-term effects of 

14 our energy production not only in the air but in 

15 our waters as well. Please put a stop to 

16 fracking and the damage it does to our 

17 groundwater.

18 As I said earlier, it's time that we, as 

19 one of the richest nations in the world, to take 

20 a leadership position for a clean earth, a 

21 leadership position we have too often left to 

22 others. It is common sense to make the power we 

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1 consume clean power so that we can leave our 

2 country and the world in better condition for the 

3 generations to come.

4 For me, that image of burning rivers and 

5 forests damaged by acid rain are iconic of our 

6 low points of our environmental stewardship. We 

7 have made great strides, and the next step is to 

8 have clean energy now. Let us stop mortgaging 

9 our future for the sake of energy that's a few 

10 dollars cheaper today. Thank you.

11 MS. PAGE: Thank you very much for your 

12 testimony, appreciate it.

13 Next speakers are Stephanie Davis and 

14 David Smedick.

15 (Pause.)

16 Welcome. Stephanie, whenever you're 

17 ready.

18 MS. DAVIS: Yes. Hi, I'm Steph Davis. 

19 I'm a cell biologist and also a biochemist, and I 

20 have my own biotech store when I moved down here 

21 from Maryland -- from New York to Maryland. And 

22 it is true, and some days I thought I was making 

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1 it up -- the air quality in Baltimore feels like 

2 Jello. So I'm just realizing obviously something 

3 going on, so I decided to come here. 

4 It’s nice for you to give me an 

5 opportunity to speak. So I fully support the 

6 Clean Power Plan the EPA innovation and sound 

7 science can help power plants to use renewable 

8 energy. Reduction in power plant pollution can 

9 decrease DNA damage at the molecular and cellular 

10 level.

11 Power plant emissions have deadly health 

12 consequences. Oh, and I would like all 

13 politicians to notice this and not just focus on 

14 the money aspect because a lot of people are 

15 becoming sick.

16 Professors from Harvard Medical School 

17 concluded that emissions from nine Illinois power 

18 plant were responsible for an increase in asthma 

19 attacks and also premature deaths.

20 Studies in Germany also reveal that 

21 increased cancer risk of children occurred when 

22 those children lived near nuclear power plants. 

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1 And the type of cancers that were increased were 

2 a leukemia.

3 There also were studies done in Finland 

4 as well and in China. Now, power plants can 

5 change to using clean solar, wind power -- will 

6 have a lower exposure of -- of a lower chance of 

7 producing PAH which is polycyclic aromatic 

8 hydrocarbons. And these polycyclic aromatic 

9 hydrocarbons are also linked to prostate cancer. 

10 And rather than saying polycyclic aromatic 

11 hydrocarbons, just say PAH. This is a by-product 

12 of incomplete combustion of coal burning plants.

13 Studies from Columbia University 

14 indicated or showed prenatal exposure to power 

15 plant pollution caused children to be born with 

16 smaller heads -- listed their measurements. They 

17 had circumference of the head of these newborns 

18 also in Finland, and Harlem, and Upper Manhattan, 

19 and also in China. So these children were born 

20 with smaller head sizes at birth.

21 You have to ask yourself what are the 

22 medical implications of this. And it's clearly 

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1 they could have cognitive development problems, 

2 learning disability problems. This could cause 

3 an increase in medical expenses and also this 

4 puts a strain -- certainly an amount of strain on 

5 the education system when they come into the 

6 classroom. The teacher must be able to teach a 

7 variety of different ways to help the students 

8 learn. It takes a lot of time.

9 So what does this mean for the future? 

10 Increased fuel efficiency can result from hybrid 

11 or coal generating plants such as solar biomass, 

12 or wind solar plants. With solar energy there is 

13 a problem of expense, varied storage problems 

14 will also have to be worked on. MIT Is also 

15 doing research on developing and improving the 

16 batteries for storage in these facilities.

17 In the process of plant conversion, 

18 neighborhoods will be able to have more -- or the 

19 creation of green jobs -- green jobs will occur. 

20 This is especially needed in communities such as 

21 Baltimore. There's a high rate of unemployment. 

22 These communities such as this -- this will give 

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1 green jobs. 

2 It will also increase -- stimulate 

3 education in these areas as well. And thank you 

4 for this opportunity.

5 MR. PAGE: Thank you very much.

6 MR. SMEDICK: Good evening, and thank you 

7 for the opportunity to speak today. My name is 

8 David Smedick, and I'm with the Sierra Club. My 

9 land name is spelled S-M-E-D-I-C-K.

10 First and foremost, I want to thank the 

11 EPA for its commitment to carbon reductions 

12 through the Clean Power Plan. This is a 

13 critical of my generation, and we need to act 

14 right now.

15 I'm a Maryland native, an active member 

16 of the youth climate movement, and an advocate 

17 for clean energy and conservation.

18 I was inspired to act on climate in my 

19 teens because of my love of our natural 

20 environment. Growing up I spent my summers and 

21 winters enjoying the outdoors and visiting 

22 national parks, something I still enjoy whenever 

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1 I get the chance today. But my love of the 

2 natural world is just one of the many reasons why 

3 I am no engaged on this global problem.

4 I'm a part of this movement because 

5 climate disruption will have a deep impact on our 

6 natural environment, our economy, our health, and 

7 most importantly, our future generations.

8 I'm a part of this movement because one 

9 day I hope to be a father. 

10 The choices that we make today around 

11 energy and pollution will have a lasting impact. 

12 My generation, your children's generation, and 

13 generations to come will be the ones facing the 

14 implications of these decisions and bear the true 

15 cost of our inaction on this issue.

16 I've been listening to many passionate 

17 speakers today, and I know you've heard the 

18 plan's impacts stated over and over. You are 

19 well aware that the Clean Power Plan has the 

20 potential to improve public health. Up to 

21 150,000 asthma attacks prevented. More than 

22 6,000 premature deaths avoided. We cannot 

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1 overstate the improvements in health and quality 

2 of life that this plan will bring. Personally, I 

3 am not willing to accept a weakened version of 

4 this plan that could threaten my health and the 

5 health of future generations.

6 Those opposed to carbon emission 

7 regulations argue that our economy and our energy 

8 system isn't ready for this, but I would implore 

9 them, and I implore you: Ask my generation. Ask 

10 the future leaders of this nation. We are ready.

11 We are ready to take responsibility and

12 tackle this issue. We are ready to invent, and 

13 we are ready to innovate. We are ready to work 

14 tirelessly to move beyond a system and a society 

15 that revolves around carbon and carbon emissions 

16 because we know what's at stake and we have no 

17 other choice.

18 The Clean Power Plan is a critical first 

19 step for this country to show its commitment to 

20 action in the face of climate disruption. We 

21 have an expectation and an obligation to set the 

22 standard, and this plan is the first step in that 

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1 direction.

2 On behalf of my own generation, the kids 

3 that I hope to raise to appreciate the world 

4 around them, and the grandchildren I hope to see 

5 grow up in a place where they can breathe clean 

6 air and swim in clean water, I thank you for your 

7 dedication to a strong Clean Power Plan. And I 

8 challenge you to continue to push the envelope, 

9 to lead the way and advance these issues even in 

10 the face of opposition. The time is now for my 

11 generation and for everyone else to act. Thank 

12 you.

13 MR. PAGE: Thank you, Mr. Smedick.

14 Okay. Ann -- you're going to have to 

15 help me with this one -- Darwicki -- okay, thank 

16 you. I appreciate the help. And then I 

17 understand three speakers are going to share five 

18 minutes: Kirk Bowers, Amery Fischer, and Ann 

19 Lopez. Okay. 

20 You guys want to kind of assemble over 

21 toward that direction and we'll look forward to 

22 your testimony as soon as Ann is finished with 

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1 hers. Whenever you're ready.

2 MS. DARWICKI: Okay. Hello, my name is 

3 Ann Darwicki, D-A-R-W-I-C-K-I, and I am a 

4 Registered Nurse with 23 years of experience 

5 caring for women and children. I am a family 

6 member and current chair of Nurses Healing Our 

7 Planet, the environmental ad hoc committee for 

8 the Delaware Nurses Association.

9 I would like to thank you for the 

10 opportunity to speak with you today and to 

11 applaud the EPA on the proposed carbon pollution 

12 standards for coal burning power plants. I would 

13 also like to preface my conversation with you by 

14 saying that I love electricity. In fact, I often 

15 remind my husband after every camping trip that 

16 it is my favorite invention with indoor plumbing 

17 a close second.

18 With that being said, I am for 

19 responsible energy production that does not have 

20 the unintended effects of making us sick. I do 

21 not need to go over the statistics on coal 

22 burning power plants and the resultant air 

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1 pollution as you are very well aware of them.

2 As you know, we are intricately and 

3 intimately connected to our environment. And our 

4 health is directly impacted by it. We know that 

5 on days with higher pollution there are increased 

6 deaths from heart attacks, strokes, respiratory 

7 disease. We know that poor air quality is linked 

8 to prematurity and birth retardation of our 

9 babies as well as infant deaths. We know that 

10 asthma rates have doubled in the past 20 years, 

11 and it is now the most common childhood disease. 

12 I'm thrilled to see that you are showing 

13 how reducing soot and smog, reducing air 

14 pollution is going to reap savings in health care 

15 costs. These are not insignificant costs. The 

16 U.S. spends annually $10 billion a year treating 

17 asthma; $26 billion in pre-term births; chronic 

18 lung disease, $154 billion; and heart disease and 

19 strokes $432 billion.

20 Unfortunately, we can lose sight of what 

21 these facts and figures mean in human terms. I 

22 have often been told that my seat of Delaware is 

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1 designated a non-attainment area for ozone and 

2 consistently does not meet ambient air quality 

3 standards. 

4 Yet when a nurse that I worked with in 

5 the newborn intensive care had to move out of 

6 Delaware because her son, who is fit and 

7 athletic, couldn't breathe the air in Delaware 

8 without a rescue inhaler even after returning 

9 from a trip to Florida in hundred-degree weather 

10 where he could breathe fine. Or how shortly 

11 after her move her 42-year-old husband died 

12 unexpectedly of a heart attack. 

13 Or last year I had the privilege of being 

14 a Delaware Clean Air Ambassador, and someone 

15 shared this story of a 14-year-old honor student 

16 who had a bright future ahead of her and died of 

17 an asthma attack because her mother couldn't 

18 afford the medicine. I will be forever changed 

19 by these.

20 And in business as in medicine we are 

21 always adapting and improving as we know better. 

22 By no longer flushing our medicines down the 

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1 toilet, phasing out mercury thermometers, 

2 removing lead from gasoline and paint, we know 

3 that our actions, government actions work.

4 Our best approach is to be proactive. We 

5 cannot make a wrong decision by erring on the 

6 side of health and safety. Every effort is 

7 worthwhile. Please uphold your standards; do not 

8 waiver for an ounce of prevention is worth a 

9 pound of cure, for breathing is not an option. 

10 Breathing air that does not make us sick or kill 

11 us prematurely should not be an option either. 

12 Thank you.

13 MR. PAGE: Thank you, appreciate it.

14 All right. 

15 MR. BOWERS: Good afternoon, I'm Kirk 

16 Bowers, B-O-W-E-R-S. I am the Conservation Chair 

17 of the Piedmont Group of the Sierra Club which 

18 has over 1,100 members. I'm also District Chair 

19 of the Democratic Party, and worked under the 

20 Charlottesville Center for Peace and Justice, and 

21 I represent over 10,000 people. Okay.

22 The Piedmont Group's work strongly 

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1 supports the Clean Power Plan to cut carbon 

2 pollution from the power sector by 30 percent 

3 below 2005 levels. Power plants are a source of 

4 carbon pollution in the United States accounting 

5 for 42 percent of all domestic greenhouse gas 

6 emissions.

7 MS. LOPEZ: Hello, my name is Annie 

8 Lopez. I am a Lead Coordinator with the Piedmont 

9 Chapter of the Virginia Sierra Club, and I 

10 currently attend NC State University. Thank you 

11 for allowing me to speak here today.

12 Climate change changed my education 

13 during those formative years of my life. I was 

14 just 12 years old when The Inconvenient Truth 

15 came out. My whole generation has watched, 

16 soaking it all in as our parents, our teachers, 

17 and adults on the news discussed the issue of 

18 climate change.

19 Now we’ve talked enough. It is time for 

20 action. Students from my high school in 

21 Albemarle County, Virginia, have started a Solar 

22 Schools Initiative. They're petitioning a formal 

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1 press conference. They've advocated for solar 

2 panels on our county schools. This group has 

3 expanded to include students from all over the 

4 county at the elementary, middle, and high school 

5 levels as well as alumni such as myself.

6 The County Board of Supervisors and 

7 School Board have heard our voices. I have every 

8 confidence that these students will succeed. It 

9 will be a point pride for our whole community to 

10 have schools at the forefront of renewable energy 

11 use and emissions reductions.

12 The enforcement of the Clean Power Plan 

13 greatly supports this student movement and others 

14 like it. For children and young adults today 

15 climate change is not a new idea that we have to 

16 get used to. It's what we have grown up learning 

17 about, and we care. We are taking action at the 

18 grassroots level, but we need the federal 

19 government to take action with us.

20 I, as a student, fully support the Clean 

21 Power Plan. This plan makes me excited for the 

22 future. Thank you.

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1 MR. PAGE: Thank you.

2 MR. FISCHER: Hi, my name is Amery 

3 [phonetic] Fischer. I am a student at Virginia 

4 Tech and a Youth Coordinator for the Piedmont 

5 Group of the Sierra Club. Last name is F-I-S-C6 H-E-R.

7 During the summer of 2012 I worked as a 

8 field hand on a produce farm in southern 

9 Wisconsin. We were known throughout the area for 

10 our famous watermelon. And if I thought the 

11 security would let me bring some watermelon in 

12 for you guys, I would have.

13 However, like 80 percent of the nation's 

14 agriculture land that summer, we received the 

15 most severe drought in 25 years, according to the 

16 United States Department of Agriculture. Around 

17 us farmers without irrigation watched as their 

18 crops shriveled and their land cracked.

19 Thankfully, my boss did have irrigation, 

20 but I overheard him say that if they had to 

21 irrigate the melons for just a few more days, it 

22 would be better to let them -- to shrivel in the 

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1 field and cut their losses. Thankfully, we did 

2 not have to see that end.

3 But by September the USDA had designated 

4 over 2,000 counties across the country as 

5 disaster areas due to drought. Climate change 

6 has the potential to make extreme droughts like 

7 that become normal. We need a strong plan for 

8 climate action, otherwise, what would happen to 

9 the bread basket of America?

10 With that on my mind I came back in 2012

11 to Virginia to toil fervently for President 

12 Obama's reelection because he promised to work 

13 towards solving the climate crisis. I knocked on 

14 hundreds of doors and organized then high school 

15 students like myself to do the same.

16 And this administration is fulfilling 

17 that promise today. I stand here -- or sit here 

18 in support of the decision to put limits on the 

19 carbon pollution that causes climate change. 

20 Thank you and keep up the good work.

21 MR. PAGE: Thank you.

22 Mr. BOWERS: In conclusion, I'd like to 

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1 state more comments. The study released by 

2 Stanford University five days ago on July the 

3 24th, 2014, performed by international 

4 scientists. If you haven't seen it yet, it's 

5 great. And they concluded that the earth is on 

6 the brink of mass extinction. It should be equal 

7 in scale to when it killed off the dinosaurs 65 

8 million years ago.

9 Time is running out to avert the threat 

10 of mass extinction. If the crisis is to be 

11 avoided -- and this affects the entire world --

12 humans need to make large scale changes 

13 immediately.

14 In light of recent studies -- these 

15 recent studies proposed regulations. It's a good 

16 start, but it's not enough. The Climate Change 

17 Act of 2008 in the United Kingdom as enacted 

18 ensures that the net carbon count that came out 

19 in the year 2050 is at least 80 percent below the 

20 1990 baseline. The Act aims to make the United 

21 Kingdom become a low carbon economy.

22 Climate change -- the Climate Change Act 

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1 here in the United States and regulations to 

2 reduce emissions by 80 percent below the 1990

3 baseline is required if we are going to prevent 

4 mass extinctions.

5 And we're talking about one-third to one6 half of the entire human population on this 

7 planet. Thank you for your time.

8 MR. PAGE: Thank you all for your 

9 testimony, appreciate it.

10 Aaron Phillips and Ryan Crowley. Mr. 

11 Phillips, you're up first.

12 MR. PHILLIPS: First of all, my name is 

13 Aaron Phillips. Thank you for your time and 

14 allowing me to be here. 

15 I am a District of Columbia resident. 

16 I'm 23 years old. I'm very active, play a lot of 

17 sports, take part in local activities, but I do 

18 suffer from asthma, something that I've got to 

19 deal with on a daily basis, and even with my 

20 education, you know, the climate and the air does 

21 play a huge effect on how I can maneuver and 

22 participate in things day to day.

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1 I do speak on behalf of myself -- you 

2 know, my generation and also my future kids. I 

3 see the climate as being one of the most 

4 predominant issues that we face today, and it --

5 honestly, there's enough way to go around and say 

6 that they're trying to delegate as far as what's 

7 going to happen to the earth. It's pretty 

8 evident. The signs are here, but we do need to 

9 act immediately.

10 Things such as rain forest deforestation, 

11 forest fires, the mass extinction of aquatic 

12 life, how our waterways are becoming more and 

13 more acidic, the pollution and smut as far as 

14 being put into the air, it all plays a mass 

15 effect on what's going on, creating more 

16 greenhouse gas and just a warming of the earth of 

17 itself. And I do feel strongly that if nothing 

18 is done or if anything isn't being done as 

19 drastic as decreasing the carbon emissions, we 

20 will face a devastation as far as crops, our 

21 water supply, and human extinction.

22 This is the only earth that we have. 

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1 There is nothing else like it to be able to 

2 sustain our way of living as things sort of 

3 cohabitate with everything, and we're 

4 responsible.

5 Research does show that climate change 

6 did start around the industrial revolution which 

7 makes a lot of sense. With our -- moving forward 

8 with technology and our assembly lines, just 

9 steam powered this and steam powered that, we did 

10 put a dent in the earth. We are moving faster 

11 than the earth can restore properties. And if 

12 nothing is being done, we will be faced with a 

13 mass extinction on a level we've never 

14 experienced before.

15 So I do stand here in full support of the 

16 new Clean Power act, and that is -- thank you for 

17 your time.

18 MR. PAGE: Thank you, Mr. Phillips.

19 Mr. Crowley?

20 MR. CROWLEY: Hi, my name is Ryan 

21 Crowley, spelled C-R-O-W-L-E-Y. I'm a member of 

22 the Washington, D.C., Chapter of the Sierra Club. 

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1 I'm here today to express my support for 

2 the Environmental Protection Agency's Clean Power 

3 Plan. Power plants are the largest source of 

4 carbon, accounting for 40 percent of emissions 

5 and a major contributor to greenhouse gas 

6 pollutant.

7 The Clean Power Plan is a common sense 

8 step to toward cutting pollution and addressing 

9 climate change, one of the major threats to human 

10 and environmental health. The EPA already 

11 regulates mercury, arsenic, and other noxious 

12 power plant emissions. And by tackling carbon, 

13 the Agency is helping to assure that future 

14 generations can breathe easier.

15 Twenty-five percent of medical illnesses 

16 worldwide are tied to poor environmental quality. 

17 Climate change is a result of trapped greenhouse 

18 gas. It's a serious public health problem with 

19 significant consequences.

20 A recent study published in the Journal 

21 of Health Affairs identified six climate change22 related episodes that occurred between 2000 and 

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1 2009, including an increased number of hurricanes 

2 in Florida, a West Nile virus outbreak in 

3 Louisiana, and serious flooding in North Dakota. 

4 The authors concluded that these six events 

5 accounted for nearly 1,700 premature deaths and 

6 14 billion in associated health costs.

7 Exposure to power plant emissions can 

8 have a serious adverse effect on a person's 

9 health and well being. Power plant pollution 

10 affects breathing and exacerbates respiratory 

11 illnesses like asthma. By reducing harmful 

12 emissions, the Clean Power Plan can prevent 

13 150,000 asthma attacks and 6,600 premature deaths 

14 a year by 2030.

15 When fully implemented, the Clean Power 

16 Plan will reduce power plant carbon emissions by 

17 30 percent compared to 2005 levels. It will 

18 achieve this by providing states an opportunity

19 to develop a carbon reduction strategy that's 

20 workable and effective. 

21 I come from a family of coal miners. My 

22 great grandfather immigrated from Italy to West 

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1 Virginia to work the mines. I sympathize with 

2 those who are concerned about their livelihood. 

3 But climate change is real and is already having 

4 a negative effect our health, the environment, 

5 and our economy.

6 The Clean Power Plan represents an 

7 opportunity to mobilize coal-reliant states and 

8 others to develop their own plan to encourage 

9 energy efficiency and increase the use of 

10 renewable energy, creating new jobs and an 

11 industry centered on cleaning up our energy 

12 sources.

13 I urge the EPA to finalize and implement 

14 the Clean Power Plan, and thank you for the 

15 opportunity to testify.

16 MR. PAGE. Thank you. Thank you, 

17 gentlemen.

18 MR. Arthur Elkins, you're next.

19 MR. ELKINS: My name is Arthur Elkins, 

20 and I'm speaking on behalf of the Delaware Sierra 

21 Club. I want to thank you guys for letting me 

22 come out today and testify.

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1 First of all, my reason for being here -- 

2 I went to (inaudible) for the summer for 

3 vacations in Delaware, which is in the southern 

4 part of Delaware. And there's a big power plant 

5 there. And little did we know, you can't 

6 actually eat the crabs down there -- we didn't 

7 know that at the time -- but you can actually eat 

8 the crabs but you can’t eat aquatic life in most 

9 of all of Delaware because the rivers are so 

10 polluted.

11 And when I was in high school, I learned 

12 about a new program. They needed to generate 

13 more power in the State of Delaware to 

14 accommodate its growing population. And there 

15 were two plans. There's one sponsored by 

16 (inaudible) which has now been taken over by 

17 Ener-G, and they wanted to build wind turbines to 

18 power the state, and another one was coal powered 

19 -- coal-powered power plant.

20 And then I got involved in it because I 

21 thought it just made sense. Let's do wind 

22 turbines if it's free; it involves wind; it's 

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1 never going to run out, unlike coal. And I 

2 didn't realize the scale of what I was getting 

3 into because there were WinPacs all over the 

4 place.

5 And everything always goes to money, 

6 money, money. It was never about the health 

7 impact; it was never in long-term 

8 sustainability. It was always just how short 

9 term. And so that really got me started in 

10 politics, in general, and that interested me ever 

11 since. It's been over 10 years now.

12 In the United States we like to wage wars 

13 on things we deem to be valuable like crime and 

14 drugs, but there is no war on pollution -- at 

15 least not that I can see or they pretend it isn't 

16 actually happening; it doesn't really exist. 

17 It's just made up.

18 In Delaware clean air is a hot topic. 

19 The University of Delaware, which is my alma 

20 mater, as well as our Vice-President Joe Biden. 

21 He actually graduated with the same degree and 

22 the same minor. 

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1 And at his alma mater, they were 

2 proposing a plant which was going to be powered 

3 by gasoline. And everybody was laughing in 

4 Delaware. I started thinking, well, isn't there 

5 a better way to power it? So there was a lot of 

6 turmoil about this gas -- this gas-powered plant 

7 in Delaware. And it was all over the news. And 

8 again, same thing. There were a lot of expensive 

9 ads being place in newspapers and on the radio 

10 talking about how this was going to save money; 

11 this was going to create jobs. And nothing was 

12 talked about -- gasoline which everybody knows is 

13 definitely not going to save money. It takes 

14 millions of years to make fossil fuels.

15 So after a long turnout and within --

16 this was located in the City of Newark about this 

17 power plant. The University of Delaware decided 

18 that it was not a forward-thinking idea to have a 

19 gas-powered -- a gas-powered plant in Newark, so 

20 they and rescinded the idea, and everybody -- a 

21 lot of people in Delaware were definitely a part 

22 of that. 

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1 And just in my personal experience, I was 

2 with the Philadelphia Eagles for three years, and 

3 I knew all about their clean energy initiatives. 

4 I was there when they decided to install solar 

5 panels. It's all over the stadium. With the 

6 Eagles being the first football team in the whole 

7 country to be able to be taken off the grid. 

8 And, in fact, it was proposed to generate 

9 back into the grid for a profit. And there was 

10 an absolutely brilliant idea and it was 

11 completely voluntary. And I think if the 

12 Philadelphia Eagles can do that forward-thinking, 

13 why can't we ask the country to be that forward14 thinking? 

15 Regardless of one’s sports affiliations, 

16 it just makes sense. And it's -- it's very 

17 forward-thinking, and I think that that's 

18 something we need a little bit more of. Thank 

19 you very much for your time.

20 MR. PAGE: Thank you.

21 THE COURT REPORTER: Can you spell your 

22 last name, please?

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1 MR. ELKINS: My last name is Elkins, 

2 E-L-K-I-N-S.

3 THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you.

4 MR. PAGE: Okay. Very good. All right.

5 All right, the next two speakers are Brad 

6 Green and Tom Vincent. Mr. Green?

7 MR. GREEN: Thank you. My name is 

8 Bradley Green, and I am a resident of the 

9 District of Columbia. I support the proposed 

10 rule limiting carbon emissions from coal-fired 

11 power plants. This rule is a crucial start to 

12 the crucial task of addressing global warming.

13 I believe that the vast majority of the -

14 - I believe the vast majority of scientists are 

15 going to tell us that our greenhouse gas 

16 emissions are warming the earth. Further, this 

17 warming is already being felt, and will become 

18 more pronounced in the years ahead. Worse, the 

19 consequences of this warming will be costly in 

20 heating, including rising seas, species 

21 extinction, and crop failure to name a few.

22 The economic and the social cost of doing 

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1 nothing far outweighs the cost of limiting our 

2 greenhouse gas emissions. The displacement of 

3 hundreds of millions of people due to silent 

4 rising sea levels alone will have huge economic 

5 and social costs that may well be more than any 

6 regions that the countries can bear.

7 By comparison, the cost of transitioning 

8 from coal to more sustainable fuels is one that 

9 we would embrace.

10 The cost of renewable solar power, for 

11 example, has been declining over the years, and 

12 now it is increasing competitively with fossil 

13 fuels. I realize that my statement is filled 

14 with dire words and predictions, but this is the 

15 nature of the threat before us.

16 Consequently, I think this rule should be 

17 as aggressive as possible in reducing our 

18 dependence on coal.

19 Fortunately, I will not be around to see 

20 the more extreme consequences of the global 

21 warming should we choose to do nothing. Still, I 

22 feel it is our duty as a society to leave the 

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1 next generation a world that is at least as good 

2 as the one that was given to us. I hope that we 

3 do not fail. Thank you.

4 MR. PAGE: Thank you, Mr. Green.

5 MR. VINCENT: I'll see if I can lighten 

6 things up. I'm here as a solutions provider.

7 My name is Tom Vincent. I am here on 

8 behalf of the Clean Energy Association, but we 

9 represent over 1,000 citizens involved in all 

10 aspects of clean energy in the United States 

11 including biotech development operations, among 

12 others. EPA advises the states and power plant 

13 owners from various areas of the country and

14 already is bringing carbon reduction job 

15 development and job creation opportunities for 

16 renewable energy.

17 We endorse the use of the opportunities 

18 and state progress which EPA proposed to create 

19 building blocks for clean energy.

20 This is consistent and recognizes the 

21 greater emission reductions and cost 

22 effectiveness by taking advantage of renewable 

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1 systems.

2 The resulting emission reduction will 

3 mitigate climate change and we are also pleased 

4 that the EPA renewable energy plan has multiple 

5 state and regional options, sets a target for 

6 progress and supports existing state programs. 

7 We believe the details of the proposal cannot 

8 underestimate the reductions that are available 

9 now and as such the final rule can and should 

10 provide emission rules further as practical. 

11 Clean energy can reduce carbon emission 

12 reductions. What we did, we used the EPA's 

13 current model to calculate the current fleet of 

14 wind turbines’ reduced carbon emissions in 2013 

15 by nearly 127 million tons. Eleven states have 

16 already achieved reductions on renewable energy 

17 alone. Renewable energy alone in U.S. 

18 communities creates 50,000 U.S. jobs annually in 

19 more facilities in 44 states in the climate 

20 industry. 

21 There are 61 megawatts of energy in 39 

22 states and Puerto Rico with energy projects being 

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1 developed and several of those states are already 

2 buying energy from customers because it's the 

3 lowest cost option available when energy is 

4 affordable.

5 Cost of energy has fallen 43 percent over 

6 the last four years, and increased less than half 

7 as much in 10 states with the most energy 

8 compared to when energy wasn't reliable.

9 At a regional level, energy has provided 

10 upwards of 20 to 40 percent of the electric 

11 emission in plains states, Texas, California, and 

12 the Northwest.

13 Since the end of 2005 clean energy has 

14 doubled its capacity in the U.S. The U.S. yield 

15 is expected to increase energy efficiency each 

16 year. In preliminary findings, reports 10 

17 percent by 2020 and can reduce power emissions by 

18 90 percent by 2030. Additionally reducing other

19 pollutants by stocking up mercury and as a result 

20 reducing these levels will create 175,000 jobs by 

21 2030 and result in long-term savings to 

22 consumers. 

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1 For these reasons, clean energy can and 

2 should move forward for carbon emissions 

3 reduction. More detailed comments are available 

4 in the October deadline proposal.

5 MR. PAGE: Thank you very much, Mr. 

6 Vincent, appreciate it. Thank you both.

7 So, I've gotten the word from Amy that 

8 our speakers have been so concise and eloquent 

9 that we are now way ahead of schedule in terms of 

10 the folks that were scheduled to speak, and we're 

11 going to -- there are two hearing rooms going on 

12 at the same time, A and B. We're going to move 

13 the rest of the speakers over to A and will they 

14 be called up at their -- around their regular 

15 time then that they were signed up for if they 

16 were signed up for sometime between now and 8:00 

17 o'clock.

18 Amy, anything else that they should know?

19 AMY: That was it.

20 MR. PAGE: Okay. Great. Thank you all 

21 very much for coming. We appreciate it. I'm 

22 going to go over there and listen to some 

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416

1 testimony myself. All right. Thank you.

2 (Meeting concluded at 7:15 p.m.)

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OLENDER REPORTING, INC.

1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036

Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376