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 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY 

 + + + + + 

 PUBLIC MEETING ON ENERGY CONSERVATION 

 STANDARDS FOR SMALL ELECTRIC MOTORS 

 + + + + + 

 FRIDAY, 

 JANUARY 30, 2009 

 + + + + + 

 The public meeting convened at 

9:00 a.m. in Room 1E-245 of the U.S. 

Department of Energy, 1000 Independence 

Avenue, S.W., Washington, D.C., DOUG BROOKMAN, 

Facilitator. 

PRESENT: 

 DOUG BROOKMAN, Facilitator 

 JIM RABA, Presiding Officer, Department 

 of Energy 

 CHRIS EARLY, Department of Energy 

 BRENDA EDWARDS, Department of Energy 

 MARK FRIEDRICHS, Department of Energy 

 MAHIMA GUPTA, Navigant Consulting 

 ASA HOPKINS, Lawrence Berkeley National 

 Laboratory 

 MICHAEL KIDO, Department of Energy 

 MICHAEL McCABE, Department of Energy 

 MATTHEW NARDOTTI, Navigant Consulting 

 MICHAEL SCHOLAND, Navigant Consulting 

 ROBERT VAN BUSKIRK, Lawrence Berkeley 

 National Laboratory 

 WILLIAM H. YEADON, Yeadon Energy Systems 

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STAKEHOLDERS PRESENT: 

 EMMANUEL AGAMLOH, Advanced Energy 

 JOHN ANDRLE, Emerson Motor Company 

 TIMOTHY BALLO, Earthjustice 

 JEFF BARTH, A.O. Smith Corporation 

 DALE A. BASSO, WEG Electric Corporation 

 ROBERT B. BOTELER, Emerson Motor Company 

 KITT BUTLER, Advanced Energy 

 BELINDA CARR, Energetics, Inc. 

 ROGER H. DAUGHERTY, Ph.D., Baldor 

 DAIN M. HANSEN, NEMA 

 TOM HINK, Regal-Beloit Corporation 

 JOHN W. HOLT, National Rural Electric 

 Cooperative Association 

 EDWIN A. HORNQUIST, Southern California 

 Edison 

 WILLIAM HOYT, NEMA 

 GLORIA PUMPUNI, Air-Conditioning, 

 Heating, and Refrigeration Institute 

 ALVIN M. RAZON, National Rural Electric 

 Cooperative Association 

 STEVEN J. ROSENSTOCK, Edison Electric 

 Institute 

 CHARLIE STEPHENS, Adjuvant Consulting 

 DANIEL TROMBLEY, ACEEE 

 MOLLY TROMBLEY-McCANN, Energy-Solutions 

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 TABLE OF CONTENTS 

AGENDA ITEM PAGE 

Welcome, Introductions, Opening............4 

 Statement 

Doug Brookman 

Rulemaking Overview.......................11 

Michael Scholand 

Market & Technology Assessment and........23 

 Screening Analysis 

Michael Scholand 

Engineering Analysis.....................139 

Matthew Nardotti 

Energy Use & End-Use Load................214 

 Characterization and Markup Analysis 

Robert Van Buskirk 

Life-Cycle Cost and Payback Period.......262 

 Analysis 

Robert Van Buskirk 

National Impact Analysis.................267 

Robert Van Buskirk 

Preliminary Manufacturer Impact..........289 

 Analysis and Other Rulemaking 

 Analyses 

Matthew Nardotti and 

Robert Van Buskirk 

Final Questions, Comments, and 

Discussion...............................320 

Doug Brookman 

Closing Remarks and Adjournment..........324 

Jim Raba 

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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 (9:04 a.m.) 

3 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Good 

4 morning and welcome back from yesterday. I 

5 hope it was very informative and enlightening. 

6 And certainly today we expect the same. 

7 I will be the presiding officer 

8 today. I am Jim Raba, Department of Energy. 

9 We've got some new people here today, good to 

10 see some faces that we didn't see yesterday to 

11 add to the discussion, appreciate that. 

12 We will do introductions shortly. 

13 I just want to welcome you today. We will be 

14 talking about standards work for small 

15 electrical motors. 

16 And, with that, again, we welcome 

17 and turn to Doug Brookman, our facilitator for 

18 today, who will then proceed with the meeting. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

20 WELCOME, INTRODUCTIONS, OPENING STATEMENT 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Good 

22 morning, everybody. Doug Brookman, Public 

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1 Solutions, Baltimore. 

2 It is our tradition to allow each 

3 person to introduce him or herself. If you 

4 would say your name and organization or 

5 affiliation? Not all of this will show up on 

6 the record. It is a matter of courtesy. 

7 Please? And I am going to go around the room. 

8 MR. BARTH: Jeff Barth, A.O. 

9 Smith. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

11 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty, 

12 Baldor Electric Company. 

13 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler, 

14 Emerson. 

15 MR. HINK: Tom Hink, Regal-Beloit. 

16 MR. BASSO: Dale Basso, WEG 

17 Electric. 

18 MR. HOYT: Bill Hoyt, National 

19 Electrical Manufacturers Association. 

20 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle, Emerson. 

21 MR. HANSEN: Dain Hansen, NEMA. 

22 MS. PUMPUNI: Gloria Pumpuni, 

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1 AHRI. 

2 MR. TROMBLEY: Dan Trombley, 

3 ACEEE. 

4 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Molly 

5 Trombley-McCann, PG&E. 

6 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

7 I'm representing the Northwest Energy 

8 Efficiency Alliance. 

9 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, 

10 Edison Electric Institute. 

11 MR. HORNQUIST: Edwin Hornquist, 

12 Southern California Edison. 

13 MR. AGAMLOH: Emmanuel Agamloh, 

14 Advanced Energy. 

15 MR. BUTLER: Kitt Butler, Advanced 

16 Energy. 

17 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE. 

18 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

19 DOE. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

21 Please? 

22 (Further introductions off the 

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1 record.) 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And Michael 

3 Scholand? 

4 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand, 

5 Navigant Consulting. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So thanks 

7 to all of you for being here on time so we got 

8 an early start on the day. We will try and 

9 push through today efficiently. I'm going to 

10 do a very brief agenda review. And then we're 

11 going to proceed with the meeting. 

12 I hope all of you got a copy of 

13 the pack as you walked in the door and 

14 registered at the registration desk. You can 

15 see we are doing the opening segment now. 

16 We will move from here to a brief 

17 rulemaking overview. From there, we will go 

18 straight into market and technology assessment 

19 and screening analysis. 

20 Around about 10:15 or so, we will 

21 take a break. Following that, we will have 

22 more detailed description of the engineering 

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1 analysis, followed by energy use and end-use 

2 load characterization and markup analysis. 

3 We will take lunch midday, around 

4 about noon. If we go faster than we 

5 anticipate, we will just keep going. And we 

6 will still observe the break times and the 

7 lunch times. 

8 Around about 1:00 -- and you're on 

9 your own for lunch. We'll describe for those 

10 of you who aren't familiar with the way it 

11 gets done around here, we're going to get 

12 lunch and all of that sort of thing when we 

13 get there. 

14 Around about 1:00 o'clock, we'll 

15 continue with descriptions of life-cycle cost 

16 analysis and payback period analysis, 1:30 

17 national impact analysis, 2:00 o'clock 

18 preliminary manufacture impact analysis and 

19 other rulemaking analyses. 

20 Around about 3:00 o'clock today, 

21 we will take final questions, comments, and we 

22 will have whatever discussion is necessary. 

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1 There is this opportunity at the end of the 

2 day for anybody to raise any additional issues 

3 you might wish to raise or to emphasize at 

4 that point in the meeting today. So that is 

5 your opportunity. 

6 We will have a few closing 

7 remarks. We intend to adjourn around about 

8 3:30 today. 

9 Questions, comments about the 

10 agenda? Any particular issues that don't fit 

11 in this format that are important you think 

12 you want to try and raise today? 

13 (No response.) 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: I see none. 

15 Okay. So, then, with your consideration, I 

16 will be doing everything I can to keep the 

17 meeting moving along. I will be queuing 

18 people to speak by name and also trying to 

19 encourage discussion ongoing exchange. 

20 I would ask for your 

21 consideration. Please listen as an ally. Use 

22 short, succinct statements to keep the point 

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1 moving. Please hold side bar conversations to 

2 a minimum. If they're going to be more than 

3 about 20 or 30 seconds, please take them 

4 outside of the room. 

5 I am going to be trying to 

6 recognize you, as I said, by name. And so all 

7 you need to do is look at me. And I will try 

8 and fit you in the queue. 

9 And if you would set your cell 

10 phones on silent or vibrate now, that would be 

11 helpful. 

12 This meeting, this public meeting, 

13 is on the record. There will be a complete 

14 transcript of this meeting. And so if you 

15 speak, if you would say your name? And I will 

16 be recognizing you. 

17 You don't need to say your 

18 organizational affiliation as well. You can 

19 just say, "John Doe," and that will be 

20 sufficient for our record. 

21 So, then, additional questions or 

22 comments? 

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1 (No response.) 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. So 

3 we provide, the Department provides, an 

4 opportunity for anybody that wishes to make a 

5 brief opening statement about issues that are 

6 of concern to them, issues they would like to 

7 emphasize, knowing that we will probably cover 

8 them in much greater detail as the day goes 

9 along. So there is an opportunity for that. 

10 Sometimes people provide written 

11 comments at the outset that they would like to 

12 summarize for the record now. Anybody wish to 

13 make a brief opening statement or should we 

14 just jump right in? Jump right in? Is that 

15 okay, everybody? Okay. We'll jump right in. 

16 MR. SCHOLAND: Well, thank you, 

17 Doug. 

18 RULEMAKING OVERVIEW 

19 MR. SCHOLAND: This is Mike 

20 Scholand from Navigant Consulting. Good 

21 morning, everyone. We are here today to talk 

22 about the preliminary analysis as conducted 

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1 for the small electric motors, energy 

2 conservation standard rulemaking. 

3 The purpose of today's meeting is 

4 to review the statute and DOE's actions for 

5 small electric motors. We're going to present 

6 DOE's preliminary analysis, which is on the 

7 Web. And hopefully some of you have had a 

8 chance to review some of that ahead of the 

9 meeting. 

10 I'm going to clarify any questions 

11 that you might have about the Department's 

12 approach. We're going to seek comment from 

13 you guys on the analysis to date, any new data 

14 sources and other recommendations you may have 

15 moving forward; and, finally, discuss the next 

16 steps for the rulemaking. That's our purpose. 

17 And, as you'll find in the 

18 presentations which you have, there are issue 

19 boxes that are contained through the slides. 

20 These are the issues that are sort of key 

21 issues the Department wants to make sure it 

22 gets comment on from stakeholders. 

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1 All of the analysis that is 

2 published is open for comment and the 

3 Department would like comment on, but there 

4 are certain key issues which the Department 

5 sees as sort of a higher priority to make sure 

6 that it definitely gets feedback on. So 

7 you'll find these in issue boxes. 

8 And what will happen during the 

9 presentation, when we get to these issue 

10 boxes, we'll stop. And Doug will open the 

11 floor. And we'll make sure that people have a 

12 chance to comment. 

13 So the first section here, I'm on 

14 slide 7, small electric motors. I just want 

15 to review the statutory language behind the 

16 Department's authority. 

17 As you may be aware, the Energy 

18 Policy Act of 1992 amended EPACT to direct DOE 

19 to prescribe energy conservation standards for 

20 those small electric motors for which the 

21 Secretary determines that standards "would be 

22 technologically feasible and economically 

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1 justified and would result in significant 

2 energy savings." 

3 DOE did conduct that analysis. 

4 The Secretary did make a positive 

5 determination, which was published July 10th 

6 of 2006. 

7 As a consequence of that positive 

8 determination, DOE initiated concurrently both 

9 a test procedure and an energy conservation 

10 standards rulemaking for small electric 

11 motors. 

12 The energy conservation standards 

13 rule was initiated with a framework document 

14 that some of you attended the kickoff meeting. 

15 That was published August 10th of 2007. I 

16 think the meeting was in September of '07. 

17 And DOE is, as you are aware -- 

18 many of you were at the meeting yesterday. 

19 DOE is conducting a separate rulemaking to 

20 establish test procedures for measuring the 

21 efficiency of small electric motors. That 

22 NOPR was published December 22nd of 2008. And 

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1 the comment period is open right now and is 

2 open through March 9th. 

3 Any questions on the statutory 

4 language or DOE's actions? 

5 (No response.) 

6 MR. SCHOLAND: This is a little 

7 flow diagram to help you visualize the energy 

8 conservation standards rule, which we're 

9 discussing today. 

10 There is a framework document 

11 stage, a preliminary analysis, a NOPR stage, 

12 and a final rule stage. And DOE publishes 

13 Federal Register notices in those four little 

14 chevrons, which you can see. 

15 Today DOE is right in the middle 

16 of that flow, having completed its preliminary 

17 analysis that published a Federal Register 

18 notice in December last year to announce the 

19 availability of that data for comment in 

20 today's public meeting. 

21 Steve, a question? 

22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Yes. Steve 

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1 Rosenstock, Edison Electric Institute. 

2 So since I have been to many 

3 rulemakings, this is kind of under the new 

4 process, there is not going to be an advance 

5 notice of proposed rulemaking, correct? 

6 MR. SCHOLAND: That's correct, 

7 Steve. Yes, yes. 

8 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. 

9 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

10 DOE. 

11 Actually, the new process replaces 

12 that. The information is all there in the 

13 technical support document, executive summary 

14 and chapter 2. But, nevertheless, we proceed 

15 this way to meet the new process. 

16 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. Steve 

17 Rosenstock. Thank you. 

18 MR. SCHOLAND: And so I just have 

19 a couple of bullets there that there are 

20 public meetings and oral comments, which are 

21 contributed through the end of the NOPR stage. 

22 That's represented by the green chevron. 

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1 Written comments and Federal 

2 Register notices, technical support documents 

3 and analytical spreadsheets are all posted for 

4 review. And, finally, DOE always welcomes 

5 data input from manufacturers and other 

6 interested parties. 

7 So this little flow diagram shows 

8 you as we break down those flow pieces, what 

9 is contained in today's discussion. Today 

10 we're talking about DOE's preliminary 

11 analysis. And, as Doug did the review of the 

12 agenda, he read out all of these things. 

13 These are all of the chevrons that 

14 represent the analyses that will be discussed 

15 today. So I won't bore you with it, but 

16 that's the overall flow. 

17 The next stage of the rulemaking, 

18 the notice of proposed rule, DOE will revise 

19 the analyses on the previous slide and then 

20 will also conduct new analyses that help it 

21 weigh out the seven factors in EPACT for 

22 determining and proposing a standard level for 

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1 public review. 

2 So that gives you all of the 

3 different pieces. Fourteen analyses and two 

4 reports are needed for the Department to move 

5 forward during a standard. 

6 And then, finally, the final rule 

7 stage, based on comments that DOE receives on 

8 the NOPR, it will revise the NOPR analyses and 

9 make a final decision and publish a final 

10 rule. 

11 This next slide is sort of a 

12 little schedule to help you visualize on a 

13 time line how small electric motors are going 

14 to be covered and analyzed. 

15 The Federal Register notice was 

16 published on December 30th of last year. So 

17 we are at this dot right here, NOPM and 

18 Preliminary TSD. That actually should say 

19 "preliminary analysis" on that dot. So we're 

20 at the second blue diamond moving along the 

21 time line. 

22 Then the NOPR is scheduled to be 

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1 published in July of 2009 approximately. And 

2 the final rule date is February of next year, 

3 so 13 months from now. 

4 Steve Rosenstock? 

5 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Again, sorry. I 

6 was unable to make yesterday's meeting. Is 

7 the test procedure basically the same time 

8 line as the conservation standard? 

9 MR. SCHOLAND: Thank you, Steve, 

10 for that question. 

11 No. The test procedure will be 

12 final, is scheduled to be final, on June 30th 

13 of 2009. So the test procedure, which gives 

14 you the metric by which you establish the 

15 standard, must be final before the NOPR stage 

16 of a product. So, hence, getting it done in 

17 June enables the Department to have a NOPR in 

18 July for the energy standard. 

19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. 

20 MR. SCHOLAND: Okay. And in the 

21 statute, there was a five-year minimum 

22 effective date for small electric motors. So 

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1 the regulations established in February 2010 

2 would become effective in February 2015. 

3 Okay? 

4 Any questions at all on the 

5 statute, time line, DOE's rulemaking stages? 

6 Yes? 

7 MR. HINK: Tom Hink, Regal-Beloit. 

8 This 2015 date is different than 

9 the pervious date you gave us the last time we 

10 visited. Isn't that correct? 

11 MR. SCHOLAND: That's absolutely 

12 correct. The framework document had three 

13 years. And when we reviewed the statute again 

14 with general counsel, it is actually five 

15 years for certain motors. And motors that 

16 have certain requirements, I think it's seven 

17 or eight years. It's slightly longer. So 

18 it's at least five years, yes. Thank you for 

19 that. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

21 please? 

22 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

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1 I just mentioned I think that you 

2 will see as we go through the discussion today 

3 that in the number of analyses that you have 

4 done, one that you have omitted is an analysis 

5 on the final application and the impact that 

6 these changes in motor designs might have on 

7 the application. I think that will become 

8 very clear as you go through the day. 

9 MR. SCHOLAND: Can you say more 

10 about the nature of the application? Say more 

11 about that. 

12 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

13 My point is that when you try to 

14 increase the efficiency of a motor, you may 

15 change its physical package. And you need to 

16 look at the application to the end user, 

17 whether or not that will be acceptable for use 

18 in that application, because you could end up 

19 with something that if you impose the 

20 requirement of the higher efficiency motor, 

21 you will make his application obsolete. You 

22 will have to redesign. Those who are looking 

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1 for replacement motors may become a hindrance 

2 because they will have to scrap their entire 

3 equipment just because they can't replace that 

4 motor. 

5 MR. SCHOLAND: Okay. 

6 MR. DAUGHERTY: So end user 

7 application can have a very significant 

8 impact. And that is missing from all of your 

9 analyses here. 

10 MR. SCHOLAND: Jim Raba? 

11 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

12 DOE. 

13 It's a good thing you brought up, 

14 Roger. I understand that this is only the 

15 beginning of our analyses, preliminary. We 

16 have more stages to go. And much of that will 

17 be addressed. 

18 The manufacturer impact analysis 

19 was to come later, which is part and parcel to 

20 what you're saying about manufacturers, the 

21 process, and the motors in the applications to 

22 fit the needs of the users. 

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1 So that will be coming up. I'm 

2 glad you brought it up at this time. And I 

3 will be taking a look at that as a matter of 

4 course in the next round. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Robert? 

6 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. Robert Van 

7 Buskirk, Lawrence Berkeley. 

8 Typically in analyses for the 

9 Department, the impacts on applications for 

10 the end user are addressed in the life-cycle 

11 cost analysis. So the consequences you just 

12 described incur economic costs on the end 

13 user. And those economic costs can be 

14 incorporated as factors in the consumer 

15 life-cycle cost analysis. So the Department 

16 looks forward to your input in that portion of 

17 the discussion. 

18 MR. SCHOLAND: All of which will 

19 be described in much greater detail. Okay? 

20 All right. Thank you, Doug. 

21 MARKET & TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENT AND 

22 SCREENING ANALYSIS 

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1 MR. SCHOLAND: Now, this next 

2 section of the slides is the market and 

3 technology assessment, the screening analysis 

4 and engineering analysis. I'm only going to 

5 speak about the market/tech and screening. 

6 And then we will depending on time take a 

7 break, coffee break. 

8 Then Rob Boteler from Emerson 

9 Motor will get up and present a couple of 

10 slides about the engineering of small electric 

11 motors. And then I'll switch over to my 

12 colleague Matt Nardotti will present the 

13 engineering analysis. So that's our game plan 

14 for this section. 

15 So let's talk about the market 

16 assessment. What is a market assessment? The 

17 purpose of a market assessment is to 

18 characterize the small electric motors market 

19 and manufacturers and to determine appropriate 

20 equipment classes. 

21 The forks, or key tasks, that the 

22 Department of Energy published in the market 

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1 assessment are to: one, try and clarify the 

2 scope of coverage for what is a small electric 

3 motor; second, to identify and characterize 

4 manufacturers of small electric motors; 

5 thirdly, to classify covered products into 

6 appropriate equipment classes -- I'll talk 

7 later about why that is important -- and, 

8 finally, to use historical shipment data that 

9 NEMA had provided for the determination 

10 analysis to generate an estimate of shipments 

11 for the current analysis. 

12 So let's begin by discussing the 

13 scope of coverage. This definition you may be 

14 familiar with. It's from the statute. It's 

15 the definition of a small electric motor, 

16 which reads a "NEMA," which is the National 

17 Electrical Manufacturers Association, "general 

18 purpose alternating current single speed 

19 induction motor built in a two-digit frame 

20 number series in accordance with NEMA 

21 standards publication MG1-1987." 

22 So, in order to more clearly 

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1 understand the scope, DOE sought to clarify 

2 three terms that are contained in that 

3 definition: general purpose alternating 

4 current as one; induction motor as a second; 

5 and two-digit frame number series as a third. 

6 So we're just going to drill down 

7 one slide on each of those three terms. So 

8 for general purpose alternating current, this 

9 is a NEMA term that is used in MG1-1987 for 

10 alternating current motors that are not 

11 designed with a specific application in mind. 

12 Okay? So it's not a definite purpose motor, 

13 which would be a motor designed for the 

14 specific application. 

15 Paragraph MG1-1.05 from MG1-1987 

16 defines the term as reads on this slide. I 

17 won't read you the whole thing, but you can 

18 see this is the scope. It's essentially rated 

19 up to 200 horsepower and less, which obviously 

20 small motors don't go that high. 

21 Open construction is the only type 

22 here, general purpose. So that removes 

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1 enclosed construction, rated for continuous 

2 duty service factor in accordance with MG1, 

3 paragraph 12-47, and two insulation classes, 

4 Class A insulation as specified in MG1 12-42 

5 for small motors; and then Class B, which 

6 doesn't apply because that is for medium 

7 motors. 

8 So it is designed in standard 

9 ratings with standard operating 

10 characteristics and mechanical construction 

11 reduce under usual service conditions without 

12 restriction to a particular application or 

13 type of application. So this whole sub-bullet 

14 is the definition of general purpose 

15 alternating current in MG1. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

17 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler, 

18 Emerson. 

19 I would just like to comment on 

20 one thing. In the definition where we say 

21 it's not designed for a specific application, 

22 that doesn't mean that it's not sold and 

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1 applied into a specific application. I think 

2 that's a point that we're going to talk about 

3 later because when we build this product and 

4 sell it to the OEM community that is building 

5 various pieces of equipment -- and open 

6 motors, a lot of times they don't go into 

7 industrial equipment, but they may go into 

8 medical equipment. 

9 There is a very specific 

10 performance that our customer is looking for, 

11 not only efficiency but also the torque 

12 characteristics and whether it can handle the 

13 load and starts and stops and all the various 

14 other things that are involved with the motor. 

15 So even though it's perhaps not 

16 designed for a specific application, it is 

17 actually sold for a specific application. And 

18 there is a very specific criteria that our 

19 customer has when we sell that motor. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Do you 

21 think what is written here is not sufficient? 

22 MR. BOTELER: I think what is 

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1 written here, I believe what is written here, 

2 is being lifted right off of -- 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Right out 

4 of the NEMA. 

5 MR. BOTELER: Right. But I think 

6 it needs to have the clarification that, like 

7 I say, while it's not designed for a specific 

8 application, it actually is used and applied 

9 in a specific application. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

11 Thank you. 

12 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

13 DOE. 

14 That's a good point you bring up, 

15 Rob. Understand, too, that, really, the 

16 statute goes to manufactured. And so the 

17 applications could be many-fold. I think 

18 we're concerned about we don't know where the 

19 motor is going. 

20 And even though a motor perhaps 

21 would be used in medical applications and have 

22 particular performance characteristics, it 

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1 could also find its way into the open market 

2 and be used elsewhere. 

3 I think in the current 

4 regulations, appendix A to subpart B of 10 CFR 

5 part 31 describes guidelines that, 

6 understandably, some motors, though they look 

7 like -- well, they have certain 

8 characteristics. For example, wash-down 

9 motors may be all stainless steel, but they 

10 still could be used in general purpose 

11 applications. 

12 That should be more clarified. 

13 And we would like to get more of industry's 

14 views on that. But we may be constrained by 

15 what we can do by our authority, too. 

16 So we would like to hear from 

17 everybody at the table to see how people feel 

18 about that, too, for the record. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: As we go 

20 along, yes. 

21 Roger? 

22 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

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1 Just a slight clarification on 

2 that. The very first item in this bullet that 

3 is referring to a specific application is an 

4 interpretation by DOE. That is not part of 

5 this definition that's in NEMA MG1. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So are you 

7 okay with that interpretation? 

8 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

9 I think, as you have just read, 

10 Rob was trying to make the point that that may 

11 not be an appropriate interpretation. 

12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

13 Thank you. 

14 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

15 DOE. 

16 Which bullet is that, please? 

17 MR. DAUGHERTY: The very first. 

18 It says, "A NEMA term used in MG1-1987 for 

19 alternating current motors that are not 

20 designed with a specific application in mind." 

21 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Okay. So 

22 that is on slide 17. Thank you. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

2 Thanks for those comments. 

3 MR. SCHOLAND: I guess I am just 

4 looking at the very last statement on that 

5 page, Roger, "designed in standard ratings," 

6 dot dot dot, "without restriction to a 

7 particular application or type of 

8 application." And I think, you know, perhaps 

9 we should have used exactly that phrase in 

10 that first bullet, rather than to say, 

11 "designed with a specific application in 

12 mind." 

13 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba 

14 again for DOE. 

15 It's a good point you raise in 

16 their interpretation, DOE. However, again, we 

17 don't know where these motors are going to be 

18 going. So we would like everybody to weigh in 

19 on that, too, that as their manufacture could 

20 be used in general purpose application, that 

21 was more the mind set. 

22 We bring up a specific design or 

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1 application in mind. That might be something 

2 that we would like to hear more comments from 

3 the table on that particular point. Thank you 

4 very much. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob? 

6 MR. BOTELER: Yes. I think we 

7 have to realize historically we have talked 

8 about IHP, integral horsepower, motors, where 

9 we do sell a general purpose motor that goes 

10 into a broader market, goes through the 

11 distribution channel. 

12 When we get into fractional 

13 motors, by and large, everything we build and 

14 sell goes to an OEM for a specific 

15 application. And for many of us, the 

16 aftermarket isn't even served through 

17 distribution. We sell the motor back to the 

18 OEM. When you need a motor for your 

19 ice-maker, you don't call us. You call the 

20 guy you bought the ice-maker from. And that 

21 becomes very, you know, specific to his 

22 application. 

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1 So the term "general purpose" is 

2 very different in how the fractional product 

3 goes to market than the integral part. The 

4 way we sell product is very different because 

5 we really have a very, very small amount of 

6 our business that is sold directly into the 

7 distribution market in this category. The 

8 very bulk of it goes back to the OEM, and the 

9 OEM then sells that to his customer. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

11 Thanks for that clarification. 

12 MR. SCHOLAND: On the next slide, 

13 we discuss the term "induction motor." 

14 Induction motor is a motor that converts 

15 electrical power into rotational mechanical 

16 power using electromagnetic induction for its 

17 operation and has one or more component 

18 members capable of rotary movement. 

19 Now, the statute requires that 

20 small motors be built in accordance with 

21 MG1-1987. And MG1-1987 has five categories of 

22 induction motors, which are split-phase; 

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1 shaded-pole; capacitor-start, which includes 

2 both capacitor-start induction-run and 

3 capacitor-start capacitor-run; permanent-split 

4 capacitor; and polyphase. Those are the five 

5 categories. 

6 DOE has come to the preliminary 

7 conclusion at this stage of its analysis that 

8 the capacitor-start induction-run, the 

9 capacitor-start capacitor-run, and the 

10 polyphase motors are the only categories that 

11 meet the statutory requirements. 

12 And the reason that split-phase 

13 don't meet them is that those are designed for 

14 specific purposes and applications. DOE is 

15 unaware of any general purpose split-phase 

16 motors that have been built. 

17 And, secondly, shaded-pole and 

18 permanent-split capacitor motors fail to meet 

19 the torque requirements for general purpose 

20 motors, which is in NEMA MG1-1987, paragraph 

21 12-32. 

22 Could we discuss induction motors 

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1 now, please? Thanks. 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. Is it 

3 Holly? 

4 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Molly. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Molly, 

6 please? 

7 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: So it sounds 

8 like you're saying that -- 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Molly, say 

10 your name, please. 

11 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Oh, sorry. 

12 Molly Trombley-McCann. 

13 It sounds like you're saying that 

14 shaded-pole and PSC motors don't qualify as 

15 general purpose motors, but they're included 

16 in the NEMA MG1 standard for general purpose 

17 motors. So what does that mean? 

18 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand. 

19 There are torque requirements for 

20 meeting the definition of a general purpose 

21 motor, right? And those torque requirements 

22 are in MG1 and in table 12-32. And the 

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1 shaded-pole and permanent-split capacitor 

2 motors cannot achieve those torque 

3 requirements. And so, for that reason, they 

4 cannot be considered as small electric motors. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Let's go to 

6 Jim Raba and coming back to you, Steve. 

7 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

8 DOE. 

9 Point of information, too. Good 

10 you raise that at this time, that comment. A 

11 little bit of background. The determination, 

12 the final determination, goes into great 

13 detail about the analysis that was performed 

14 as to what motors presumably are covered under 

15 this determination, this rulemaking, what were 

16 not. 

17 And they were screened out because 

18 of what Mike said before about the electrical 

19 and torque performance characteristics, that 

20 it was found that the scope at that time, the 

21 motors that were covered under all of the 

22 elements of general purpose and other 

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1 requirements under the NEMA definition boiled 

2 down to basically the capacitor-start 

3 induction-run, capacitor-start capacitor-run, 

4 and polyphase 2 digit NEMA frames. So that is 

5 kind of where that happened. 

6 So a lot of that has been covered. 

7 But, again, I am glad you raised it. This 

8 could be opened up, if need be, for further 

9 comments. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Steve, 

11 let's let John follow on. John? 

12 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

13 In general, split-phase motors 

14 also do not meet the torque requirement of 

15 that same standard. And, like the shaded-pole 

16 and PSC motors or the PSC and shaded-pole 

17 motors also are designed specifically for very 

18 specific applications. So, I mean, those two 

19 or three categories all are very similar in 

20 that. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

22 Let's let the manufacturers continue on here. 

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1 Please, Roger? 

2 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

3 To try to answer your question 

4 very directly with regards to the NEMA 

5 standard, under the definition of a small 

6 general purpose motor, it references a torque 

7 table of 10-5. That torque table is for 

8 motors other than shaded-pole and 

9 permanent-split. 

10 Then there is a different table of 

11 torque capabilities for those type of motors 

12 in table 10-6. So within the NEMA standard, 

13 those motors are not classified as general 

14 purpose. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

16 Okay. 

17 MR. SCHOLAND: Excuse me, Roger. 

18 Can you clarify? That is MG1-1987 you're 

19 discussing, correct? 

20 MR. DAUGHERTY: The reference for 

21 all the pages I have with me are the newest 

22 edition, but if you go back, while maybe a 

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1 table number changes, if you read the 

2 appropriate paragraph, then you'll find the 

3 definite reference. I still think it's 10-5, 

4 but it may have changed. 

5 MR. SCHOLAND: Okay. I've got a 

6 copy here, and I'll check during the break. 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

8 Steve Rosenstock? 

9 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock. 

10 Yes. I'm just kind of curious about the 

11 scale of the difference between the torque 

12 requirements. You know, are they within ten 

13 percent or is there a factor or a magnitude of 

14 two or three? I'm just kind of -- I haven't 

15 reread the determination lately. Sorry. 

16 MR. SCHOLAND: Steve, I'll get 

17 back to you on that one -- thank you -- 

18 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. Thank you. 

19 MR. SCHOLAND: -- unless the 

20 manufacturer wants to comment. 

21 MR. ANDRLE: We can certainly give 

22 you -- 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: John, 

2 please say your name. 

3 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. Sorry. 

4 We can give you specifics, 

5 obviously. You can look at the table 

6 yourselves. Well, the table is for the 

7 general purpose, but in general, the magnitude 

8 could be -- 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: You're 

10 going to speak up if you can't hear, right? 

11 Okay. 

12 MR. ANDRLE: The magnitude could 

13 be greater than 50:1 kind of deal. 

14 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Let's go 

16 back to Roger here. 

17 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

18 If I just use an example that is 

19 out of the present standard for the table 

20 10-5, which relates to the capacitor-start 

21 motors and capacitor-start capacitor-run and 

22 capacitor-start induction-run, for the 

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1 one-half horsepower motor of the 4-pole motor 

2 at 60 hertz, the required breakdown torque is 

3 between 40 and a half and 58. I believe 

4 that's in ounce-feet. 

5 But when you get to the 

6 permanent-split capacitor motors under that 

7 standard, the number ranges from 31 and a half 

8 to 47 and a half. So, as was just pointed 

9 out, that for the general purpose motor is 

10 significantly greater than it is for the 

11 permanent-split. So the permanent-split could 

12 not be used in the application if those 

13 torques are a requirement of that application. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

15 please, John? 

16 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

17 And one further clarification. 

18 Probably the most important -- obviously the 

19 breakdown torque is important, but the locked 

20 rotor torques are significantly less on a PSC 

21 and shaded-pole motor and probably at least 50 

22 percent less on a split-phase motor than on 

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1 capacitor-start or capacitor-start 

2 induction-run. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

4 I'm starting to look forward to Rob's brief 

5 tutorial, which will come later. 

6 (Laughter.) 

7 MR. BOTELER: Don't oversell it. 

8 (Laughter.) 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: He said he 

10 only had two slides. We may need more. Okay. 

11 Additional comments on scope of 

12 coverage? This is important. Additional 

13 comments? Yes, please? 

14 MR. HORNQUIST: Yes. Edwin 

15 Hornquist, Southern California Edison. 

16 Just John's comment from Emerson 

17 regarding the polyphase, I believe that the 

18 IEC specifically calls out the polyphase under 

19 subsection -- well, under type II, subtype II. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

21 MR. BOTELER: Rob. You have just 

22 moved into integral horsepower motors when you 

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1 go into subtype I and II. We are only talking 

2 about fractionals today. 

3 MR. SCHOLAND: Thank you. 

4 Appreciate that. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: It almost 

6 seems like we should have some graphic display 

7 for this. You know what I'm saying? 

8 MR. SCHOLAND: Yes. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: It's 

10 complicated enough. We should be able to kind 

11 of find some way to -- 

12 MR. SCHOLAND: Visualize this? 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 

14 Thanks for keeping us on track here. This is 

15 useful. Okay. 

16 MR. SCHOLAND: Just a point of 

17 information. I have looked at the MG1-1987 

18 document. And the tables are the same 

19 numerical numbers as they are in the 2006 

20 edition. 

21 Table 10-5 is induction motors 

22 except standard shaded-pole and 

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1 permanent-split capacitor motors. And table 

2 10-6 is shaded-pole and permanent-split 

3 capacitor motors for fan and pump 

4 applications. So it's the same. We confirm 

5 that. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Are we 

7 ready to move on? Yes, please? And your name 

8 is? 

9 MR. AGAMLOH: Emmanuel. Emmanuel 

10 Agamloh. 

11 I have a quick question on the 

12 coverage. So does it mean that if a 

13 manufacturer puts out a half-horse 

14 capacitor-start capacitor-run motor now and 

15 later in future years he has an insulation 

16 Class F, for some reason, they decide to put 

17 out an insulation Class F, is it a covered 

18 product or not covered? Because I see that 

19 you limit the definition of general purpose to 

20 insulation Class A and B. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: First, say 

22 what insulation Class F is. Michael? 

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1 MR. SCHOLAND: Well, these are 

2 different classes for the insulation and the 

3 windings to handle certain temperatures. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

5 MR. SCHOLAND: And we would 

6 appreciate your comments. The Department 

7 would appreciate your comments on your 

8 interpretation. What insulation classes 

9 should be included in its interpretation of 

10 coverage? 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Can you say 

12 now? Do you have a leaning whether it should 

13 be covered or not? 

14 MR. AGAMLOH: I think it should be 

15 covered because the activity, the time line 

16 that you showed us in your opening slides goes 

17 into 2016 or so. And every year insulation 

18 prices come down. And F is widely used now in 

19 most general purposes motors and absent in 

20 some single-phase motors, too, and although it 

21 might be a specific purpose. So I think it 

22 should be covered. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Michael 

2 Kido? 

3 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE. 

4 We certainly appreciate that 

5 comment. And to the extent that you submit 

6 any written comments on that issue -- and this 

7 is sort of a general observation for any other 

8 comment that folks might have -- please 

9 provide us with some detailed explanation for 

10 your basis for that view. And to the extent 

11 that you can provide any supporting data, that 

12 would be extremely helpful. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

14 Other issues that people want to 

15 raise with respect to coverage? Please? 

16 MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo with 

17 Earthjustice. 

18 If we could back up to slide 16 

19 very quickly? That language there, the 

20 statutory definition of a small electric 

21 motor, there are two reasonable 

22 interpretations of that provision. DOE has 

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1 taken the position tentatively that in 

2 accordance with NEMA publication MG1-1987 

3 applies to the entire provision. 

4 However, it's also perfectly 

5 reasonable to read that as the '87 version of 

6 the NEMA standard only applies and modifies 

7 everything after the comma. 

8 In other words, the NEMA 

9 publication MG1-1987 is only relevant for 

10 determining the two-digit frame number series. 

11 And DOE is free to expand coverage and 

12 interpret general purpose alternating current 

13 and induction motor differently than they are 

14 expressed in MG1-1987. 

15 We are obviously not very happy 

16 with the scope of coverage of this rulemaking. 

17 DOE is proposing to cover something like five 

18 to ten percent of small motors. Interpreting 

19 the statute this way would enable the 

20 Department to expand the scope of coverage. 

21 At the very least, my 

22 understanding is it would get at the issue of 

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1 enclosed motors, which if I read the 

2 preliminary TSD correctly, MG1 now covers 

3 enclosed motors. So it would potentially 

4 close the statutory loophole. And I encourage 

5 the Department to look again at how it 

6 interprets this provision. 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: You'll 

8 include your interpretation in your written 

9 comments for the Department's use. 

10 Roger? 

11 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

12 I would just like to point out 

13 that what was omitted in the present 

14 discussion was the very first word of the 

15 definition is "NEMA." It says that it's a 

16 NEMA general purpose motor. 

17 MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo, 

18 Earthjustice again. 

19 NEMA general purpose motor does 

20 not necessarily require it to be NEMA MG1-1987 

21 definition of a general purpose motor. If the 

22 Department wants to look at a more current 

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1 version of MG1, we would encourage them to do 

2 that. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

4 Additional comments on that 

5 definitional issue related to scope of 

6 coverage before moving on, the scope of 

7 coverage issues? 

8 (No response.) 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay, 

10 Michael. 

11 MR. SCHOLAND: Okay. I'm on slide 

12 19, talking about two-digit frame number 

13 series. This is essentially the physical size 

14 of a small electric motor. For small electric 

15 motors, it is the D dimension in inches 

16 multiplied by the number 16. 

17 The D dimension is measured from 

18 the center line of the shaft to the bottom of 

19 the mounting feet or foot. And, for example, 

20 a 48-frame motor would have a D dimension of 3 

21 inches, which would be 16 times 3 plus 48. 

22 So standard dimensions enable sort 

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1 of ease of replacement for motors. That's the 

2 intent behind it. The covered motors in the 

3 Department's interpretation of the scope of 

4 coverage here are only 42, 48, and 56-frame 

5 motors. And the reason for that is that 

6 MG1-1987 only gives standard dimensions for 

7 these 3 frame sizes. 

8 There are some other 2 different 

9 frame sizes; for example, a 66-frame, but 

10 that's likely to be a definite purpose motor 

11 or special purpose motor and unlikely to be 

12 used in general purpose applications. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

14 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

15 I think, once again, as we 

16 discussed in yesterday's meeting, it is very 

17 important to recognize that there are 

18 equivalent IEC motors that are brought into 

19 the U.S. in accordance with IEC standards and 

20 that, therefore, it is certainly desired that 

21 those motors also fall under any rulemaking 

22 and any standards. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

2 MR. SCHOLAND: Actually, the next 

3 slide is our first issue for comment. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So, Roger, 

5 let me ask you, Roger, to follow up. I wasn't 

6 here yesterday. So how does that get 

7 achieved? How do the IEC-rated motors fit? 

8 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

9 Well, what happened was, remember, 

10 we're dealing with a law that was passed in 

11 1992. And at the same time that this part on 

12 small motors was passed, there was also the 

13 part on the integral horsepower motors, one to 

14 200 horsepower. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Let me ask 

16 you this. So does that address Tim's concerns 

17 about scope of coverage? 

18 MR. DAUGHERTY: No. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

20 Sorry to take you off track. Keep going. 

21 MR. DAUGHERTY: Okay. Roger 

22 Daugherty continuing. 

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1 So during the rulemaking process 

2 on the integral horsepower motors, the 

3 Department of Energy did recognize that there 

4 were equivalent IEC motors of similar ratings, 

5 similar dimensions that were being brought 

6 into the U.S. for use and made a determination 

7 that those should also be covered. 

8 So within 10 CFR parts 4 through 

9 31, as they adopted the definition of electric 

10 motor that was in EPACT, they expanded that 

11 definition to also include not only NEMA 

12 T-frame but also IEC frame number series. 

13 They adopted the use of a kilowatt 

14 rating, in addition to the horsepower rating 

15 that is used in the U.S. and any similar 

16 relationships between IEC and NEMA motors so 

17 that now any motor that fit within the 

18 integral horsepower, whether it be in a 

19 kilowatt or a horsepower rating and whether it 

20 be in an IEC frame size or a NEMA frame size, 

21 those are considered covered motors and must 

22 comply with the standards. 

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1 So we were only asking that that 

2 same determination be made with respect to IEC 

3 motors when writing the standards for small 

4 motors. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Jim Raba? 

6 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

7 DOE. 

8 The Department would appreciate 

9 any comments on that and, actually, data or a 

10 comparison chart or an equivalency chart of 

11 the ratings, the frame size, and the like to 

12 see, actually, for the record how these 

13 compare. And if there's a side by side, we 

14 can examine it more carefully. 

15 So we would appreciate any data or 

16 information or, as I say, comparison 

17 equivalents that anybody would like to put 

18 forward on that. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Did you 

20 have any follow-up questions that would 

21 clarify this further or are you okay? 

22 MR. SCHOLAND: I'm okay. Later in 

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1 this slide when we present equipment classes, 

2 you will see the IEC ratings. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So this box 

4 on slide 20 request for comments is about the 

5 preceding four or five slides, all related to 

6 scope of coverage. 

7 Additional, perhaps final comments 

8 on this series? Yes, please, Molly? 

9 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Molly 

10 Trombley-McCann. 

11 As Tim stated earlier, the covered 

12 motors at this point constitute about five to 

13 ten percent of the whole market. We are 

14 wondering if you have an estimate of the 

15 percentage of energy use that that accounts 

16 for in terms of all energy use by small motors 

17 in the country. 

18 MR. SCHOLAND: Well, we will be 

19 presenting the preliminary analysis and the 

20 national impacts. 

21 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: So that is 

22 going to come later? 

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1 MR. SCHOLAND: Yes. 

2 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Okay. I 

3 just wondered. 

4 MR. SCHOLAND: Robert has the 

5 number for that. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Jim Raba? 

7 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Yes. 

8 Again Jim Raba, DOE. 

9 A lot of that was covered in the 

10 determination analysis that was published, but 

11 we will go over that again today. Thank you. 

12 Good review. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

14 Thank you. 

15 MR. SCHOLAND: Next I am going to 

16 talk about manufacturers of small electric 

17 motors. The Department understands that 4 

18 manufacturers account for more than 90 percent 

19 of the domestic market. They are A. O. Smith, 

20 Baldor Electric, Emerson Motor, and 

21 Regal-Beloit. 

22 All are members of NEMA, as far as 

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1 we understand. And they all have diverse 

2 portfolios of products, including many other 

3 categories of electric motors and related 

4 electrical equipment and switchgear. 

5 I guess a question here is, who 

6 are the competitors not listed? Are there 

7 others that we should be aware of and 

8 analyzing as well. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

10 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler. 

11 We would certainly also include 

12 WEG, who is represented here today. WEG is 

13 also a member of NEMA. I think one thing you 

14 have to be careful of when we say this is 90 

15 percent of the domestic market share, I think 

16 that we would tell you that that is of the 

17 product produced in the U.S. because when we 

18 get to the fractional product, one of the 

19 things we realize is there is a very 

20 significant amount that is embedded in 

21 equipment coming from offshore, whether it be 

22 Asia or from Europe. 

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1 And that is one of the reasons why 

2 we have raised the issue about IEC product 

3 because we know there is a lot of product that 

4 comes in from Italy and Germany that is IEC 

5 that doesn't necessarily meet these 

6 requirements. 

7 One of our concerns that we are 

8 going to voice later is enforcement and how 

9 DOE proposes to enforce that we are not 

10 putting the American manufacturers at a very 

11 distinct disadvantage because we are forced to 

12 comply with the regulation and the offshore 

13 manufacturers do not comply. And there is no 

14 enforcement mechanism and no resources from 

15 DOE to actually enforce any kind of 

16 regulation. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

18 Thank you. 

19 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE. 

20 With respect to that last issue on 

21 enforcement, if anyone around the table has 

22 some ideas or suggestions as to how DOE should 

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1 best approach that particular issue, we would 

2 certainly be interested in hearing that and 

3 reviewing any written comments on that issue. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

5 Steve Rosenstock? 

6 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Just curious. 

7 Isn't it with most federal standards that for 

8 products manufactured or imported, they have 

9 to meet the regulations, have to meet the 

10 efficiency regulations? 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Michael 

12 Kido? 

13 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE. 

14 Yes, there is a requirement, but I 

15 think, as the representative from Emerson 

16 indicated, there are also perhaps some 

17 practical issues in terms of I guess some of 

18 the logistics in being able to bring a lot of 

19 enforcement actions. And that's why we're 

20 sort of interested in hitting anything that 

21 folks here have to say on how we should best 

22 approach that issue. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

2 Thank you. 

3 Yes, Rob? 

4 MR. BOTELER: I would just comment 

5 that in the integral world, we have very real 

6 examples that we receive from the West Coast, 

7 from California periodically regularly, that 

8 we have equipment coming in from Asia that now 

9 the motor shows up at our distributor, at the 

10 repair center where our motors are repaired or 

11 replaced. 

12 And we get calls as to what should 

13 we do. This motor, the nameplate is not even 

14 consistent with NEMA. And it's not even 

15 nameplated as a 50 hertz or a 60 hertz, and it 

16 doesn't meet the efficiency levels. And then 

17 we have to try and replace that motor. 

18 And we've come to the conclusion 

19 that a lot of that product is coming in 

20 embedded in the piece of equipment. And there 

21 is no enforcement taking place. So we are 

22 losing the sale, and we are competing against 

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1 that lesser product. 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

3 Thank you. 

4 Additional comments on this 

5 series? 

6 (No response.) 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

8 MR. SCHOLAND: I just have two 

9 slides on equipment classes. For those of you 

10 who are not aware of the Department's process, 

11 the Department divides equipment classes using 

12 three criteria: the type of energy used, the 

13 capacity of the equipment, and any other 

14 performance-related features that require 

15 different standards levels, such as features 

16 affecting consumer utility. 

17 Why are equipment classes 

18 important? Because energy conservation 

19 standards may be different applying to 

20 different equipment classes. 

21 So, for example, as you're 

22 familiar with the integral horsepower, one to 

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1 two hundred horsepower, motors, there are in 

2 the standard, in the CFR right now, 113 

3 equipment classes, the combinations of numbers 

4 of poles and horsepower ratings. 

5 So for the preliminary analysis, 

6 we're discussing today the Department is 

7 proposing to establish equipment classes 

8 around the following three characteristics. 

9 The CSIR, the CSCR, and polyphase 

10 small electric motors would be classified 

11 separately. The horsepower ratings would be 

12 classified separately because horsepower has a 

13 direct impact on motor efficiency. And, 

14 finally, the number of poles also impact the 

15 rated speed and torque characteristics of the 

16 motor. So they will be classified separately. 

17 That results in 72 equipment 

18 classes for small electric motors. That is 

19 each a unique combination of horsepower number 

20 of poles and motors. And on the next slide, 

21 we just have one table showing you what it 

22 would look like for each of the three 

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1 groupings: the CSIR, the CSCR, and the 

2 polyphase. There would be three tables that 

3 look like this. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

5 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

6 I would just like to encourage 

7 and, yes, again referring to yesterday's 

8 discussion, where we were talking about the 

9 definition of a basic model that in that 

10 definition, you referred to the identification 

11 as a group as being either a polyphase fitting 

12 within the group of polyphase, the group of 

13 CSIR, or the group of CSCR. Here we seem to 

14 be using classes to refer to the same 

15 information. 

16 I would like to encourage settling 

17 on one identification and using that singular 

18 identification so it's easy to go from one set 

19 of documents to another set of documents. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Well, which 

21 would you prefer? And does NEMA have a 

22 preference or a -- 

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1 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

2 I would just group to me sounded 

3 good. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So I'm 

5 looking down -- 

6 MR. BOTELER: The other members of 

7 NEMA support Roger. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. So 

9 group sounds good. Okay. 

10 MR. SCHOLAND: Roger, Mike 

11 Scholand here. Sorry. 

12 We tried to actually use them. On 

13 this slide, the second bullet uses type, 

14 right? So equipment class is at the finest 

15 level of disaggregation, 72 classes and each 

16 of the motor type being polyphase CSIR or 

17 CSCR. I apologize that we're confusing the 

18 terminology. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Go ahead, 

20 Roger. 

21 MR. SCHOLAND: Go ahead. 

22 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

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1 Yes. But when we get to this 

2 table and we go back to the definition in the 

3 previous NOPR and try to apply this and 

4 establish the standards, these correspond to 

5 what is called a basic rating or a basic 

6 model. Each one of these is one of the basic 

7 models that is in that definition. So they're 

8 not really types. 

9 This table encompasses that set of 

10 basic models. 

11 MR. SCHOLAND: The equipment class 

12 -- that's right. The Department -- that's 

13 what I was saying. The equipment classes are 

14 important. Generally the Department has the 

15 flexibility of establishing a different 

16 efficiency level for each equipment class. 

17 So for small electric motors, 

18 there would potentially be 72 equipment 

19 classes, 72 efficiency ratings. Now, in each 

20 of those boxes, a manufacturer may produce 

21 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 different basic 

22 models. And the understanding, as we were 

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1 discussing yesterday, was that manufacturers 

2 would report on the least efficient basic 

3 model within that equipment class, which has 

4 one efficiency rating. 

5 So when you make a blueprint 

6 design, you are using the AEDM model to create 

7 your designs. You keep that data in-house. 

8 You only report to DOE on the least efficient 

9 basic model in an equipment class. So that is 

10 how they are meant to interface between the 

11 two. 

12 So it could be many basic models 

13 within one of these equipment classes, one of 

14 the 72 equipment classes, that you would 

15 report to DOE on the least efficient. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Go ahead, 

17 Roger. Follow on. 

18 MR. DAUGHERTY: It's not to 

19 follow-on. It's just a thank you for that 

20 explanation. 

21 (Laughter.) 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So does 

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1 that cause you to think that this typology is 

2 useful or descriptive enough? 

3 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

4 Yes, it's descriptive enough. I 

5 guess it is trying to become familiar with 

6 some of the DOE terms as I read one document, 

7 then I move to another document. I am so used 

8 to dealing with the basic rating since about 

9 1996 that it seemed to be being carried 

10 forward into the small. And now we introduce 

11 a new term that I don't recall ever having 

12 seen before in previous documents. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. Tom 

14 and then to you John, Tom first. 

15 MR. HINK: Tom Hink, Regal-Beloit. 

16 Just an observation. I noticed 

17 here in your tabulation you are now addressing 

18 poles and horsepower. Yet, in the scope 

19 section, nothing is mentioned at all in terms 

20 of horsepower range, nor poles applied or 

21 affected by this. 

22 Is that implying, you know, that 

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1 these types of charges can vary depending upon 

2 the classes in terms of poles affected and 

3 horsepowers affected and so on, just an 

4 observation, maybe your comment back? 

5 MR. SCHOLAND: It's a good 

6 comment. May I just respond to that, Doug? 

7 This is based off of manufacturers' 

8 catalogues. So when we were looking at the 

9 universe of manufactured product, we looked at 

10 the four manufacturers that we are focusing on 

11 today. We looked at all of the product 

12 offering. 

13 In the two-digit frame number 

14 series, these were the horsepower ratings that 

15 were there. These were the pole ratings that 

16 were there. And then we looked at the 

17 integral horsepower table, and we noticed a 

18 commonality of structure and said, "Look, this 

19 probably is a logical framework to apply for 

20 small." And that's why to set this 

21 preliminary stage, this is what DOE is 

22 suggesting. 

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1 You might notice that for the high 

2 horsepower rating, we have a greater than or 

3 equal to three horsepower because there are 

4 some five-horsepower two-digit frame number 

5 series manufactured in some catalogues. 

6 So, rather than cap out at three 

7 and then have no guidance on five, we just 

8 thought we would say greater than or less than 

9 or whatever the efficiency value is. Unit of 

10 analysis would be a three. That same 

11 efficiency would apply to the five. So that 

12 was a little subtle. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: John? 

14 MR. ANDRLE: I have a question 

15 about how these -- I'm sorry. John Andrle. 

16 I have a question about how these 

17 classes, then, will be related to as far as 

18 your consideration of efficiency and how they 

19 relate to the three different two-digit frame 

20 sizes that are being considered here, I mean, 

21 as they are going to be proposed, one 

22 efficiency standard for a class for, say, a 

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1 six-pole quarter-horsepower that covers all 

2 three frame sizes. 

3 MR. SCHOLAND: Correct, yes. Yes. 

4 That's a very good observation. The 

5 Department is not using frame size as a 

6 disaggregator or characteristic distinguishing 

7 between equipment classes at this stage. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger, go 

9 ahead. 

10 MR. DAUGHERTY: I guess what I 

11 would comment on now is the present comment 

12 that was just made. I know when we get into 

13 the engineering analysis, an example that you 

14 did on polyphase motor was a 56-frame. 

15 I think the point that is trying 

16 to be made, you have to realize that some 

17 ratings do appear in more than one frame size 

18 because there is no standardization on 

19 horsepower per frame, as there are in the 

20 integral horsepower motors. 

21 So it wasn't an issue with respect 

22 to medium motors that were covered by the 

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1 other part of EPACT, but when you get here and 

2 carry through an engineering analysis on the 

3 ratings put into different frames, you're 

4 going to find you're handicapped with trying 

5 to get the same efficiency in a 48 frame that 

6 you will get in a 56 frame. 

7 So it may be very important that 

8 any efficiency standard that you do establish 

9 is tied to a frame size and need to add that 

10 to your equipment class as part of the 

11 definition. 

12 MR. SCHOLAND: DOE would 

13 appreciate written comments on that and some 

14 data to support it as well if that is 

15 available. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Steve 

17 Rosenstock? 

18 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock. 

19 Looking at this table, again, 

20 you're saying that this rulemaking might go up 

21 to those motors that are actually sized as 

22 large as five horsepower. 

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1 I guess I am just kind of -- 

2 again, this is kind of looking down the road 

3 but just kind of curious. You know, we have 

4 the standards for the integral motors designed 

5 A and B that were done in federal law going 

6 into effect in 2010. 

7 And these might be going to -- the 

8 rulemaking, you know, for these would be in 

9 effect in 2015. I'm just kind of -- 

10 marketplace confusion possibly. You know, you 

11 have two different standards for one 

12 horsepower motor for I'll say the novice 

13 person looking at a table or catalogue. 

14 I know there are a lot of 

15 different applications in everything, but I 

16 guess there might be some concern that if two 

17 different design types -- I don't want to use 

18 the wrong word here -- one-horsepower motors 

19 have two significantly different efficiency 

20 levels. 

21 There might be some hopefully not 

22 -- you know, especially overseas some 

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1 substitution going on. I don't know. I don't 

2 know if that is going to play a role down the 

3 road but just something to consider possibly. 

4 MR. SCHOLAND: Thank you, Steve, 

5 for that comment. I think one of the things 

6 the Department has in its favor is that small 

7 electric motors are two-digit frame number 

8 series and the other electric motors are 

9 three-digit integral horsepower. 

10 So, Roger, did you want to add to 

11 that? 

12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger, yes, 

13 please? 

14 MR. DAUGHERTY: The item I wanted 

15 to address was a request for information on 48 

16 versus 56-frame. Back in 2007, when the 

17 Department was trying to make the 

18 determination, they requested that NEMA 

19 provide such information. 

20 So NEMA requested their technical 

21 committee to do a survey. And within the data 

22 that was requested, there were four different 

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1 ratings. And it happened that the second and 

2 third were half-horsepower motors, both 

3 4-pole, the one being in the 56-frame and the 

4 other being in a 48-frame. And so we did 

5 supply data at that time. That did show an 

6 efficiency difference that was attainable in 

7 those two different frame sizes for the same 

8 rating. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: I thought 

10 you had something else to say as well. You 

11 were just responding to that comment. Do you 

12 have another comment from previously? 

13 MR. DAUGHERTY: No. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

15 MR. SCHOLAND: Okay. Any more 

16 discussion on the equipment classes? 

17 (No response.) 

18 MR. SCHOLAND: Move on to 

19 shipments. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And let me 

21 just confirm. We confirmed that the wording 

22 here, the typology, that is going to work for 

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1 especially the manufacturers. This is 

2 important, I think. 

3 MR. SCHOLAND: Oh, it is. And 

4 here is a question perhaps for the 

5 manufacturers. If you were to modify this 

6 table to take into account frame number series 

7 because there is some scaling perhaps of frame 

8 number series between the horsepower ratings, 

9 please prepare a table that you would like to 

10 see and submit it in your comment. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Would it be 

12 a fourth element and it would multiply the 72 

13 by 4 essentially, yes? Yes. 

14 MR. SCHOLAND: At one extreme. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: At one 

16 extreme, yes. 

17 MR. BOTELER: This is Rob Boteler. 

18 Yes. I think what we're saying is 

19 if we have a -- and I don't know exactly what 

20 it is, but we have a 42 and a 48 frame that 

21 could both have a half-horsepower motor. 

22 So we would need to have an 

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1 efficiency level for a half-horsepower 

2 42-frame and a half-horsepower 48-frame. If 

3 we only did it on one or the other, then we 

4 would know which way to go with the other 

5 frame designation or I guess we would have to 

6 stay with the horsepower. And then we could 

7 not achieve it on the lower frame size. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. Okay. 

9 Thank you. 

10 Yes? Sorry. Thank you. Bill? 

11 MR. BASSO: This is Dale Basso, 

12 WEG Electric. 

13 You know, I thought we would 

14 probably get into it a little later, but this 

15 is all getting down to an issue of 

16 standardization and being able to write a 

17 standard around a standardized product. 

18 And in fractional horsepower 

19 motors, it is a very unstandardized product in 

20 the industry. And a lot of the motors are 

21 applied specifically. Even the general 

22 purpose catalogue product for WEG versus 

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1 Emerson could be a different frame size. 

2 The customer who buys our motor 

3 may not be able to buy their motor because 

4 it's in a different frame size. And they are 

5 very often frame size envelope-restricted in 

6 these products. 

7 I think, Rob, you are going to get 

8 into that. So Rob will get into some of that 

9 in his presentation. But the issue of setting 

10 this and expanding this from 72 to 3 times or 

11 4 times 72 basic ratings gets down to where we 

12 can set a standard for efficiency by frame 

13 size, but it won't help the customer, who was 

14 in a smaller frame and now has to go to a 

15 bigger one to get an efficiency level. 

16 So we're going to get into a real 

17 vicious circle here as far as the customer end 

18 of this. As motor manufacturers, we love 

19 premium efficiency. And we love to sell 

20 efficiency. I think you have probably seen 

21 that in our larger frames that it is a big 

22 part of our promotion and our efforts. 

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1 But when we get into this, we also 

2 are concerned about our customers. And there 

3 are a lot of issues related to the impact on 

4 our customers when we get into the fractional 

5 horsepower sizing and fitting things in and 

6 obtaining the efficiency. 

7 So we're struggling with the 

8 ability to how we set these standards via 

9 frame size. And I guess we will get into that 

10 a little more as we go forward. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: You can 

12 imagine that DOE would want to be sufficiently 

13 descriptive and adequate, though that tends to 

14 get more complicated if you have thousands of 

15 classes. So your ideas about how they could 

16 compose those classes in your written comments 

17 are very important to them because they are 

18 looking for a way to be sufficient here in a 

19 way that doesn't mess up your customers. 

20 Charlie? 

21 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens, 

22 Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. 

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1 I was looking in page 3-13 in the 

2 market assessment preliminary document. And 

3 there is a statement in there by DOE that they 

4 did not see significant differentiation and 

5 efficiency by frame size and, for that reason, 

6 chose not to differentiate by frame size in 

7 tables. 

8 Is that what is being taken issue 

9 with here, that you actually maintain there 

10 is, even though DOE did not appear to find it? 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Bill, go 

12 ahead. 

13 MR. BASSO: It's Dale Basso, WEG. 

14 Yes, that's what we would contend. 

15 And there is a significant difference. And 

16 because a lot of these are customer-specific 

17 once they apply it, when we tell them it now 

18 has to go up in efficiency, there's a good 

19 chance the motor will get longer, if not 

20 bigger diameter. And that will impact the 

21 customer in a very costly manner. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And, Rob, I 

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1 saw you nodding your head in agreement. It's 

2 useful to know if you agree. 

3 MR. BOTELER: I agree. Actually, 

4 one of the things that I am involved with -- 

5 and Dale mentioned that the motor 

6 manufacturers are very interested in premium 

7 efficient motors and we have come up with the 

8 NEMA premium and all of the things that we 

9 have done there. 

10 And I have been working 

11 internationally on IE3, which is the 

12 international standard for IEC product. And 

13 the issue that they face is exactly what we 

14 faced with our fractional product. And that 

15 is that they have the product on a smaller 

16 frame size, smaller diameter. 

17 And in order to achieve the level 

18 of efficiency, IE3, equivalent to NEMA 

19 premium, their only choices are to lengthen 

20 the frame or to go to a larger diameter frame 

21 or in some cases the technology of moving to a 

22 copper bar rotor, which is a very costly 

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1 process for them. 

2 And what we are talking about 

3 today on these frame sizes for the NEMA 

4 manufacturers is very similar to what is 

5 happening in Europe right now. In Europe, it 

6 has pretty much come to a standstill on 

7 implementing IE3 because the manufacturers 

8 have this issue. 

9 And the way around it is not good 

10 because it will produce product, as we have 

11 heard here, that is not acceptable for the 

12 application for the end use. So we don't 

13 achieve a whole lot. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

15 Thank you. 

16 Yes, Bill, again? Yes? 

17 MR. BASSO: Dale Basso, WEG. 

18 I will just for practical purposes 

19 give an example of a recent scenario. I was 

20 with a previous motor manufacturer that sold a 

21 lot more fractional motors. But we closed one 

22 of our facilities and had to move the designs 

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1 into another facility. 

2 And motor manufacturers aren't 

3 standardized on a particular lamination 

4 diameter. So Emerson might use a different 

5 lamination barrel than WEG does for a 

6 particular frame size. 

7 So 56-frame is a foot height 

8 thing, not a barrel diameter thing. So the 

9 frame can actually get larger around. And 

10 when we design motors, we do call it a D2 L or 

11 it's a length-to-diameter ratio coming up with 

12 a design. 

13 Well, we started out with larger 

14 diameter motors in the plant we were closing. 

15 When we transferred those into a plant that 

16 used a smaller diameter, all the motors got 

17 longer; well, not all but a high percentage of 

18 the motors got longer. 

19 And a significant number of our 

20 customers came back to us screaming and 

21 yelling. That was not acceptable. They could 

22 not handle that little bit of additional 

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1 length to move. Because we went a smaller 

2 diameter, we had to go longer just to get the 

3 same rating. 

4 And our goal was to get the exact 

5 same rating. We weren't increasing 

6 efficiency. It was strictly trying to match 

7 the performance of the previous motor. So 

8 barrel diameter itself within a manufacturer 

9 can make a difference in what we can get. 

10 So I guess the morale we learned 

11 to that story is that they are very sensitive. 

12 Customers are sensitive to the envelope size 

13 of the motor and that it is important. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. So, 

15 Dale, my apologies. I have been calling you 

16 Bill for about the last five to ten minutes. 

17 And I'm saying this to correct the record, in 

18 fact. So thank you. 

19 So additional? Yes, Michael? 

20 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE. 

21 I was wondering if the 

22 manufacturers could sort of quantify a 

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1 ballpark range as to the differences in 

2 efficiency among frame sizes. Are we talking 

3 about five percent, ten percent? What is this 

4 bottom line number if there is one? 

5 (Laughter.) 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, Dale, 

7 please? 

8 MR. BASSO: I think the issue is 

9 that because we are into the fractional 

10 horsepowers and, as Rob pointed out or as 

11 Roger pointed out earlier, in the NEMA frame 

12 size 140 and up, the 3-digit frame sizes, they 

13 are pretty much in a fixed length frame. And 

14 the core length can vary within that frame to 

15 get the rating. So the mechanical package to 

16 the customer doesn't change when you increase 

17 efficiency. 

18 In these ratings, to go from a 

19 48-frame and don't even change the frame size 

20 but just change the efficiency, it might go 

21 from an 8-inch-long to a 9-inch-long motor. 

22 So when you say the difference 

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1 between a 48 and a 56, we might be able to go 

2 up in frame to a 56, make it longer, and get a 

3 more significant increase in efficiency. But 

4 now we have not only increased the diameter 

5 but the length. 

6 So there isn't an exact number 

7 that we could say, "Well, a 48 can do, you 

8 know, 80 percent and a 56 will do 85." It's 

9 very dependent on how long we then make the 

10 next rating. 

11 MR. KIDO: Okay. Just to follow 

12 up, but there are efficiency differences among 

13 different products within the same frame range 

14 size or are they all the same? 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Dale? Yes. 

16 Keep going. 

17 MR. BASSO: Yes, there are 

18 differences even within the same frame range. 

19 And it will come down to a length. You know, 

20 if we wanted to make a motor, a half-horse 

21 motor, and a 56-frame more efficient, we can 

22 expand the length of it. And it will get more 

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1 efficient. 

2 And so the definition of how long 

3 you go with that length increase could change 

4 the amount of additional efficiency you have. 

5 If you went from a 48-frame -- and only to 

6 confuse issues further, -- 

7 (Laughter.) 

8 MR. BASSO: -- we can actually 

9 build a 48 and a 56 with the same laminations. 

10 So the actual barrel diameter of the motor 

11 might be the smaller laminations that would 

12 support a 48, but we put feet. That raised 

13 shaft height up to that of a 56. And now 

14 we've got a 56-frame motor by definition with 

15 the same laminations that would be in a 

16 48-frame motor. 

17 So it's just very dynamic in the 

18 fractional horse world. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

20 Rob? 

21 MR. BOTELER: Yes. Just to kind 

22 of reiterate on what Roger said a minute ago, 

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1 the numbers that we submitted to DOE, we 

2 actually looked at four examples. But, just 

3 taking one example, the 3-phase one-horsepower 

4 56-frame 4-pole, we determined that the 

5 standard efficient was 74 percent efficient. 

6 If we increased the length of the 

7 motor, we could go to what we considered 

8 energy-efficient or EPACT at 78.5. And if we 

9 went even longer, we could go to 85.5. 

10 In all cases, we're looking. And 

11 we looked at examples where we might go from 

12 one and a half-inch stack. And when we were 

13 done, we might be 250 percent of that. 

14 So, to Dale's point, we have now 

15 lengthened that motor to the point where our 

16 customer can no longer purchase that motor 

17 because it will not fit in his envelope, but 

18 we have achieved the energy goal. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. And, 

20 Roger, please? 

21 MR. DAUGHERTY: And just to follow 

22 up on that, a little bit of clarification. At 

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1 the time that DOE asked for the survey and 

2 that we provide the results, we weren't even 

3 thinking in terms of trying to explain what 

4 frame size these were in. We were just 

5 providing the numbers that were requested. 

6 So while we provided the standard 

7 efficiency with 74 percent, energy efficiency 

8 with 78 and a half, and premium was 85 and a 

9 half, it is possible within the 56-frame DOE 

10 is probably not aware, as what Rob just said, 

11 that over those 3 values, those are very 

12 different motors and very different overall 

13 package lengths. And one may be 200 and some 

14 percent as long as the lowest efficiency. 

15 So you may not have interpreted 

16 the information that we actually gave you 

17 correctly in making a determination that there 

18 was not a significant change in frame size 

19 corresponding to the efficiency values that 

20 you received. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

22 Tom, did you want to follow on? 

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1 MR. HINK: I was just going to 

2 make a follow-up comment that if you are 

3 looking at our various catalogues, we may just 

4 plainly say 56-frame, but you have no way of 

5 really knowing whether it's a smaller diameter 

6 lamination or the larger, which may refer to 

7 the comment that was stated earlier that they 

8 couldn't see any real difference. 

9 Well, the reason you can't see it 

10 is you can't really see behind the scenes 

11 which lamination is being used. That could be 

12 adding to some of the confusion there. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

14 MR. SCHOLAND: Very helpful 

15 comments. Thank you. 

16 Next I have just one slide to 

17 discuss the shipments estimate that the 

18 Department prepared for the preliminary 

19 analysis we're discussing today. 

20 Essentially the methodology 

21 followed for this was to use shipment data 

22 that NEMA provided to DOE for the 

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1 determination analysis that was published in 

2 2006. NEMA had provided that data, I believe, 

3 2002 or 2003. It was several years ago. 

4 DOE then used publicly available 

5 shipment data for the appropriate NAICS code 

6 from the Census and calculated an annual 

7 growth rate that projected the NEMA data 

8 forward to the year 2007. 

9 And, as I had mentioned earlier 

10 about a NEMA general purpose induction motor, 

11 DOE did only consider open construction motors 

12 here. There is a determination it was both 

13 open and closed construction. 

14 So it was just a portion of the 

15 shipments that were provided that we use to 

16 project forward. And the results are 

17 approximately six million small electric 

18 motors for the year 2007. 

19 Polyphase was about nine percent. 

20 Capacitor-start induction-run was the large 

21 one, with approximately 87 percent. And 

22 capacitor-start capacitor-run was about four 

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1 and a half. 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob, 

3 comments? 

4 MR. BOTELER: This is Rob Boteler. 

5 We have really struggled with 

6 these numbers because of the definition and 

7 how they're applied. And in this category of 

8 numbers, we build so many more that are 

9 definite and special purpose motors than we do 

10 that meet the definition of general purpose. 

11 And we have recently gone back to 

12 our members and the members sitting here and 

13 actually one other and asked for 

14 clarification. And we would adjust the 

15 numbers. 

16 I think we would tell you that the 

17 polyphase is likely to approach a million 

18 units, but we would tell you that the 

19 cap-start induction-run is more likely to be 

20 three million units. And part of that may be 

21 because of what has happened in the market. 

22 And we all watch the news and know what is 

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1 happening in the residential markets. And 

2 that is driving our markets. 

3 On the cap-start cap-run within 

4 our NEMA guidelines, if we have less than five 

5 members who report numbers, we cannot share 

6 those numbers amongst us. So we have to 

7 report nothing for sales in that category 

8 because we had so few members who reported in 

9 that category. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. It is 

11 Bill, is it not? 

12 MR. HOYT: Yes. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

14 MR. HOYT: Bill Hoyt with NEMA. 

15 I just want to amplify what Rob 

16 said about disclosure. The disclosure 

17 requirements for data provided to our business 

18 information services are grounded on antitrust 

19 law. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

21 Thank you. 

22 Steve Rosenstock? 

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1 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Again it might be 

2 in the analysis. You'll have to forgive me, 

3 but I am just kind of curious. Are there any 

4 horsepower sizes that dominate the shipments, 

5 you know, any one that really -- or are they 

6 all kind of across the board in terms of 

7 horsepower, there's no real, I'll say, market 

8 leader? 

9 MR. BOTELER: This is Rob Boteler. 

10 Four-pole ratings are primarily 

11 going to be in the 60 to 70 percent of the 

12 units sold. Two poles are probably the next 

13 one, at 12 or 13 percent. And then the rest 

14 are six poles. 

15 If you look in these categories, I 

16 think the one-horsepower is probably the 

17 dominant product that we sell. 

18 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: The figures 

20 you were giving, Rob, were they for '08, 2008, 

21 or 2007 or what were they? 

22 MR. BOTELER: They were recent 

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1 figures. They were really 2008. 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

3 MR. SCHOLAND: And just as a point 

4 of information for Steve's question, the 

5 Department's estimates are available in the 

6 TSD. Thank you. 

7 Okay. Technology assessment. So 

8 we are shifting gears now away from the market 

9 assessment. The technology assessment, the 

10 purpose is to develop a preliminary list of 

11 technology options that could improve the 

12 efficiency of small electric motors. 

13 Just a question, Doug, in terms of 

14 time. It's 10:25. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: You've got 

16 about four slides here? 

17 MR. SCHOLAND: I have a few more. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Five 

19 slides. 

20 MR. SCHOLAND: There are five. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Let's do 

22 them before the break. 

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1 MR. SCHOLAND: I'll try. 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: The method 

4 that the Department followed to identify 

5 technology options was to review the 

6 literature, including manufacturers' marketing 

7 brochures promoting efficient motors; 

8 determination analysis work that was 

9 performed; and comments from stakeholders from 

10 the framework document and the DOE technical 

11 contractors. 

12 DOE classified losses into four 

13 groups: conductor losses, core losses, 

14 friction and windage losses, and stray load 

15 losses. 

16 DOE did not identify any 

17 technology options to reduce stray load. So 

18 we didn't move forward with that. We just 

19 looked at options for the other three groups. 

20 So, just focusing on conductor 

21 losses, the measures DOE considered for the 

22 technology options include the copper diecast 

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1 rotor cage, removing skew on the conductor 

2 cage, increasing the cross-sectional area of 

3 the rotor conductor bars, increasing the 

4 end-ring size, changing gauges of copper wire 

5 in the stator, manipulating slot size 

6 geometry, and decreasing the air gap between 

7 rotor and stator. 

8 On the core loss side, DOE looked 

9 at adding stack to the length of the motor, 

10 changing grades of electrical steel, such as 

11 improved conventional grades, and exotic 

12 steel, annealing the laminations, thinning 

13 laminations using plastic bonded iron powder 

14 as a core material and using a permanent 

15 magnet electric motor. 

16 Comment there? 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Should we 

18 just finish? We've got a -- okay. Go ahead, 

19 Roger. 

20 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

21 I noticed that with regards to the 

22 core losses, the information the Department 

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1 appears to be using is given on page 3-33 of 

2 the TSD. And in that table, I have to assume 

3 that the watts per pound core loss that has 

4 been provided is possibly coming from 

5 electrical steel manufacturers' data. 

6 And I will only put to you that 

7 that kind of information is based on Epstein 

8 testing of nice strips, although they are cut 

9 from different orientations in the steel. 

10 In the electric motor, the 

11 distribution of the flux is not nice, like it 

12 is in the Epstein testing. And it's not nice 

13 like it is in power transformers. 

14 One thing that doesn't show up on 

15 the Epstein testing is the effect of the flux 

16 trying to go across the air gap and causing 

17 losses into the surface of the steel. And so 

18 these numbers that come from electrical steel 

19 manufacturers sometimes become misleading. 

20 And it's only by building prototype motors 

21 that we actually are able to evaluate what the 

22 true loss is in that material. 

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1 One that is a significant concern 

2 to me is that the Department has looked into 

3 this investigation of the Hiperco 50 material, 

4 which in this table is showing a very 

5 significant reduction in core loss. 

6 Well, having investigated similar 

7 materials, a lot of that is coming from the 

8 fact that it is a very thin lamination 

9 material. As I said, this information doesn't 

10 account for losses that are not evident in 

11 Epstein testing. 

12 So practical experiences indicated 

13 that the losses, this change in loss, going to 

14 this material is not as significant as 

15 indicated. The true value of that material in 

16 thin laminations comes into play when you go 

17 above 200 hertz. 

18 So it looks to be a very good 

19 advantage in variable speed equipment that is 

20 running from a variable frequency controller. 

21 But it has not necessarily proven of 

22 significant benefit at 60 hertz. 

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1 So I only caution that as you use 

2 data that you have some background that 

3 supports the amount of core loss that you are 

4 actually calculating. And I tried to go 

5 through your examples in your appendix 5 to 

6 try to see what you were coming up with. 

7 And I have got to conclude from 

8 some of your other charts, where you show that 

9 use of this steel caused a very significant 

10 rise in efficiency, that it's due to just 

11 purely using these numbers without any 

12 experience in this background. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Are you 

14 able to generalize or characterize the 

15 difference, the variability from the Epstein 

16 testing to the real world applications? 

17 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

18 I think what you will find is that 

19 probably each manufacturer has done his own 

20 prototype testing as he investigates a new 

21 steel. And according to the analysis of the 

22 program that he uses to do designs, how he 

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1 calculates core loss influences what 

2 relationship he may have found. 

3 So while I may have found a 

4 certain relationship in the factors that I 

5 use, other manufacturers may find different 

6 relationships related to the way that they 

7 calculate core loss. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: That 

9 suggests there is significant variability. 

10 MR. DAUGHERTY: Yes. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Charlie? 

12 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens, 

13 Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. 

14 Roger, could you comment a little 

15 further by talking about the differences in 

16 the deltas between the levels of losses that 

17 you see there? 

18 I realize you just told me the 

19 absolute numbers are probably not what you see 

20 in the actual motor. Could you talk about the 

21 differences between the various levels that we 

22 see in the table on that page that you 

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1 referenced in the TSD? 

2 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

3 Yes. What is shown in the table 

4 for this Hiperco 50, which has only a six 

5 thousandths of an inch lamination thickness, 

6 which is very thin -- and it's a side bar 

7 which means that the manufacturer would have 

8 to be punching about four times more 

9 laminations in order to build a stack out of 

10 that than it would out of the 24 M36 steel, 

11 for example. 

12 But in this table, you're showing 

13 one watt per pound against more normal steels 

14 that are used that are up to the two to three 

15 watts per pound. It's just that in very 

16 limited experience of looking into prototype 

17 situations, because of our interest -- and we 

18 build a lot of variable speed equipment and a 

19 lot of variable speed motors in the controls. 

20 And as we investigate trying to 

21 improve those efficiencies and looking at this 

22 material, we just find that you don't get this 

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1 two to one factor, like it shows here from a 

2 24 M19 down to the Hiperco 50. 

3 I can't give you an exact 

4 comparison because while we observe the bad 

5 comparison at 60, it's much closer than shown 

6 here. Our interest was really 200 hertz and 

7 higher because when you apply these 

8 higher-loss steels, they have a hysteresis, 

9 eddy current effects that as you go up in 

10 frequency, they give tremendously high loss. 

11 So we have to investigate these alternative 

12 materials. 

13 And so those alternative materials 

14 are really marketed and driven toward 

15 high-frequency applications, more so than they 

16 are at 60 hertz. 

17 So unless you gain experience and 

18 do prototype testing, it's very difficult to 

19 look at manufacturers of electrical steel and 

20 take their numbers. 

21 And we don't take any of them. We 

22 always build prototypes every time we 

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1 investigate a new steel. We go through the 

2 full IEEE 112 method B testing and find the 

3 effect on stray load loss that that steel has 

4 as well as the effect that it has on core 

5 loss. And it's that stray load loss component 

6 that is affected that is not shown in this 

7 table and not given through Epstein testing. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

9 Are there additional comments since we are 

10 here on technology options, as described in 

11 27? 

12 MR. SCHOLAND: Just a footnote. 

13 MR. ANDRLE: I would just like to 

14 make one other comment. 

15 MR. SCHOLAND: Sure. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: John, 

17 please? 

18 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

19 As far as changing steels and 

20 changing the thickness of laminations, I mean, 

21 based on the way that we're tooled, I mean, 

22 we're tooled for one thickness of lamination. 

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1 And basically we find it difficult to run 

2 more than one type of steel through our plant 

3 with one lamination. 

4 So going to exotic steels or going 

5 to exotic thicknesses probably means that the 

6 manufacturer would have to change all of the 

7 product coming from that lamination, which 

8 means that costs are going to be added to 

9 products that don't require it. 

10 And so now you're impacting more 

11 than what you're initially trying to regulate. 

12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

13 Thank you. 

14 MR. SCHOLAND: I just wanted to 

15 mention something relating to the technology 

16 assessment. A requirement of the statute for 

17 the Department is to develop what is called 

18 the maximum technologically feasible design. 

19 And that needs to be considered in the 

20 analysis, where cost is actually no option. 

21 And so DOE developed designs using 

22 the conventional steel and didn't feel that it 

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1 had achieve max. tech. and went back to see, 

2 okay, well, what other steels could be used or 

3 other design measures. And the Hiperco was a 

4 type of exotic steel that we felt would push 

5 to the absolute maximum technologically 

6 feasible. 

7 So what I would say to all of you 

8 if you have other suggestions, reasons why the 

9 Department should not be considering this as a 

10 technology option, please submit that in 

11 writing but also give other suggestions for 

12 how DOE can achieve maximum technologically 

13 feasible, we would love to hear it. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

15 please, Rob? 

16 MR. BOTELER: Within the max. 

17 tech., in that area, is that still within the 

18 definition of induction motor and general 

19 purpose or have we moved beyond that? 

20 MR. SCHOLAND: No. It's meant to 

21 be a small electric motor as defined and 

22 interpreted as we discussed earlier today. 

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1 MR. BOTELER: Okay. 

2 MR. SCHOLAND: Yes. 

3 MR. BOTELER: Then the next 

4 question I have is, in your technology 

5 options, you have permanent magnet electric 

6 motor as on of your options. 

7 MR. SCHOLAND: Correct. 

8 MR. BOTELER: So it's not an 

9 induction motor. 

10 MR. SCHOLAND: We realized that 

11 since publishing this. 

12 MR. BOTELER: Thank you. 

13 MR. SCHOLAND: Thank you. 

14 Okay. The next slide is on 

15 friction and windage. Is it windage or 

16 windage losses? Wind, windage. Thank you. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Although 

18 they are windings, are they not? Okay. 

19 That's why I'm looking forward to the 

20 tutorial. 

21 MR. SCHOLAND: The two technology 

22 options the Department considered to reduce 

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1 the friction and windage losses are to improve 

2 mechanical components and designs, such as the 

3 bearings and bearing lubricant and the 

4 efficiency of the cooling system. 

5 So just to have a slide here 

6 summarizing all of the technology options. 

7 Oh, excuse me. This slide is a comment the 

8 Department received in response to the 

9 framework document when we discussed 

10 technology options, summarizing factors, motor 

11 characteristics that the Department needs to 

12 keep in mind when looking at improving 

13 efficiency of the motor. 

14 So I just wanted to put this up 

15 here to emphasize that this comment was 

16 listened to and considered very carefully. 

17 And when we get to the engineering analysis, 

18 my colleague Matt Nardotti will talk about the 

19 constraints that were applied to the design 

20 software to make -- well, to try and 

21 accommodate this comment. 

22 So this last slide here is -- I 

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1 think this is the last one on technology -- is 

2 just an opportunity for stakeholders to make 

3 any final comments about the technology 

4 options in the tech assessment, the 

5 completeness, the description, and any other 

6 recommendations that we would have for max. 

7 tech. or other design options. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

9 MR. DAUGHERTY: Yes. Roger 

10 Daugherty. 

11 Back on slide 29, probably one of 

12 the things we forgot to add to that -- and I 

13 know where these items came from -- was a very 

14 important one, probably the very first one, 

15 that the motor can be manufactured. 

16 I'll leave you hanging with that 

17 one. We'll get to it later. 

18 (Laughter.) 

19 MR. SCHOLAND: Thank you. Thank 

20 you. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Other 

22 comments? Comments on technology options on 

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1 slide 29? No? No additional ones? 

2 (No response.) 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. So, 

4 then, let's take our break now. Okay. I'm 

5 just suggesting we take a break. It's now by 

6 my watch or by that watch up there, that 

7 clock, 20 minutes until 11:00. We'll resume 

8 at 5 minutes until 11:00, 10:55. 

9 Walking around in the Forrestal 

10 Building you must wear your badge. And 

11 there's a coffee shop one floor below us. On 

12 the opposite side of the hall, there are 

13 elevators at the center of the building. 

14 There are stairwells on both ends. 

15 There are also restrooms on both ends of this 

16 hall. Please don't go anywhere too far 

17 because we will start at 5 minutes until 

18 11:00. Thanks for a good start on the day. 

19 Did I forget anything? I think 

20 that's it. Okay. We'll see you back here in 

21 15 minutes. Wear your badges. 

22 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 

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1 went off the record at 10:40 a.m. and resumed 

2 at 11:00 a.m.) 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So let's 

4 begin, folks. Let's begin. Just for 

5 information purposes, I was thinking we're a 

6 few minutes behind. We are probably going to 

7 press on and work until, say, 12:30 before we 

8 pause for lunch. I hope that works for 

9 everybody. 

10 As we had said this morning, we 

11 were going to get a few slides from Rob. And 

12 we have them, two slides, mounted up here. 

13 So, Rob, it is yours. 

14 MR. BOTELER: I just wanted to 

15 make a couple of points. One of them I think 

16 that is important is that we're dealing with a 

17 regulation, proposed regulation, at this point 

18 that started out back in the early '90s. And 

19 things have changed a great deal for us as 

20 motor manufacturers since the early '90s. 

21 One of the things that I think we 

22 should be on the record as knowing is that 

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1 technology has advanced a great deal. And we 

2 as the motor manufacturers are spending a lot 

3 of resources on new technologies, all focused 

4 on energy savings and energy efficiency, in 

5 the same applications and kind of rating sizes 

6 that we're talking about today. 

7 We're really kind of focused on 

8 yesterday's technology when we talk about the 

9 products we have been talking about for the 

10 last few hours. 

11 And I wanted to just share that 

12 with you because I want you to know that the 

13 motor manufacturers, although we are opposed 

14 to this regulation, -- we'll go on record as 

15 saying that -- we are not opposed to energy 

16 savings. And we are spending a tremendous 

17 amount of resources in that area. 

18 That is one of our concerns 

19 because this regulation diverts those 

20 resources that we would use in other areas. 

21 We're working on permanent magnet motors. 

22 We're working on switch-reluctant motors. 

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1 Some of us are working on wind generators and 

2 alternative fuels. We're supporting 

3 alternative fuel-type applications with 

4 motors. 

5 One of the things that we do as a 

6 company now, not speaking as NEMA, we're 

7 working on removing gear boxes and belts and 

8 pulleys. Instead of the four-pole motor that 

9 we have been talking about, we're developing 

10 28-pole motors that go onto the washing 

11 machine directly onto the barrel of the 

12 washer. So we have eliminated all the belts 

13 in that efficiency that we lose in the belts. 

14 So we debate in this discussion 

15 where we talk about two or three points of 

16 efficiency. Yet, we have opportunities in 

17 other areas with multi-speed or with different 

18 applications where we can talk 10 or 15 points 

19 of efficiency or more. 

20 I think it is important to know 

21 that because that is part of the reason why 

22 you are going to see more and more push-back 

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1 from us because we want our resources where 

2 the real savings are. And it concerns us that 

3 we would be asked to put our resources where 

4 we really don't feel there's a lot of energy 

5 savings. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And where 

7 your products are going as well? 

8 MR. BOTELER: And where the market 

9 is going. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 

11 MR. BOTELER: Absolutely. In 

12 California, we have moved on pool pumps as an 

13 example. We have moved almost entirely to 

14 variable-speed pool pumps. 

15 So we are not really debating this 

16 product as it might have occurred two years 

17 ago as a pool pump because we have moved the 

18 market, and California has helped us move that 

19 market, of course. 

20 I wanted to show this just a 

21 little bit so that people understood. And 

22 this is to give you a kind of a grounding into 

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1 the categories of motors here. 

2 The general purpose motors that 

3 are covered today in the IHP area, the 

4 definite purpose motors that are not covered, 

5 but they are covered by NEMA premium. So they 

6 are not covered by a regulation, but they are 

7 covered by a standard. And most of us make 

8 and sell those motors every day as a NEMA 

9 premium. 

10 When we come over to the 

11 fractional motors, this is the guy we're 

12 talking about right here. Everything else 

13 that you see is an appliance motor. It's a 

14 partial motor or it's a different type of 

15 motor that is already covered in a different 

16 piece of product in the system. 

17 So we're really talking about one 

18 narrow focus. And that was pointed out by the 

19 young lady at PG&E this morning. You are 

20 absolutely right. That is where we are at. 

21 We are at that one small end of our product 

22 line. 

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1 The other thing that I wanted to 

2 point out, we're going to get into talking a 

3 little bit about the technical side. And 

4 we've tried to make the point that the stack 

5 of the rotor changes. And on our fractional 

6 product, that electrical performance is 

7 driving the mechanical configuration. 

8 What you see here is an enclosed 

9 motor. This is an IHP motor. And you see the 

10 stack, and you see the end turns. And what 

11 you see in this motor is that there is room. 

12 And this is actually a premium efficient 

13 motor, that there is room. 

14 This may be a five-horse or seven 

15 and a half. And on this frame size, we 

16 probably make two sizes. We make a seven and 

17 a half and a ten or we make a -- did I say 

18 that right? Yes. We make a three and a five. 

19 And we make it in the same frame size. 

20 So we have designed this so that 

21 we have room to move. In fractional motors, 

22 that is not the case. In fractional motors, 

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1 the frame is determined by the length of that 

2 stator core. And it changes every time we 

3 grow the motor. 

4 So I'm going to make that point. 

5 See, you all kind of understood what we were 

6 looking at here. All right? 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Are there 

8 questions following Rob's presentation? Okay. 

9 MR. BOTELER: We'll let Michael 

10 take over. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

12 MR. BOTELER: Thank you. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, Roger? 

14 MR. BOTELER: What did I say wrong 

15 there? 

16 (Laughter.) 

17 MR. DAUGHERTY: Nothing. Roger 

18 Daugherty. 

19 Because the question came up about 

20 this w-i-n-d-a-g-e and how to pronounce it and 

21 things and the reason it's windage is in this 

22 particular machine, what it is referring to is 

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1 the loss of that fan trying to push the air 

2 or, in other words, blow wind over the motor. 

3 And that's why the word "windage" and not 

4 windage. 

5 (Laughter.) 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. So 

7 now we're turning to where we left off, which 

8 is slide 31, screening analysis. 

9 MR. SCHOLAND: So Mike Scholand 

10 here. 

11 Continuing, slide 31. The 

12 screening analysis is essentially to apply 

13 certain screening criteria to determine which 

14 of the technology options discussed in the 

15 technology assessment should be screened out 

16 based on those criteria and which ones should 

17 be included and, therefore, considered in the 

18 engineering analysis, which, as you will 

19 recall the chevron diagram, the screening 

20 analysis feeds into the engineering analysis. 

21 So the four screening criteria are 

22 technological feasibility; practicability to 

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1 manufacturer install and service; adverse 

2 impacts on product utility or availability to 

3 customers; and, finally, adverse impacts on 

4 health or safety. 

5 I just want to point out that cost 

6 is not a factor for the screening analysis. 

7 That is an issue. Cost comes into analysis 

8 when you look at the engineering cost curves 

9 and when you get to the life-cycle cost 

10 assessment for customers. 

11 So the four criteria here are 

12 technological feasibility, practicability to 

13 manufacturer install and service, adverse 

14 impacts on utility, and health and safety. 

15 Roger? 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Please, 

17 Roger? 

18 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

19 I would like to just point out a 

20 couple of things in your screening analysis. 

21 Since you don't seem to be going on your 

22 slides into the actual things that you 

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1 screened but you are only going into those 

2 that are screened out in the later slides, if 

3 you look on page 4-5 of the TSD, there is an 

4 item 4.3.7, the air gap between rotor and 

5 stator. And there is a statement, the very 

6 first statement, "Reducing the radial air gap 

7 between the rotor and stator can improve motor 

8 efficiency." 

9 Well, it's my experience it's just 

10 the opposite, that by increasing the radial 

11 gap many times is a way that we influence 

12 stray load loss in a machine. And so that is 

13 the opposite of the criteria that we use in 

14 designing a motor. 

15 Another is on 4-7, item 4.3.11, 

16 "Additional stack height." I think we have 

17 gone over this a lot in the stuff that Rob 

18 just mentioned, but I think you really need to 

19 correct the statement that says near the end 

20 of the second paragraph, "However, DOE 

21 recognizes that the majority of small motor 

22 applications are not constrained by motor 

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1 length." 

2 I believe, as I said, if you did 

3 an application analysis, that that becomes 

4 very important in this condition, as you heard 

5 mostly this morning, is very important to the 

6 application, whether or not that motor can go 

7 into the application. 

8 So it really has to be a condition 

9 on any efficiency change that you come up 

10 with. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

12 Thank you. 

13 MR. SCHOLAND: Can I -- 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 

15 Michael, please? 

16 MR. SCHOLAND: -- just ask as a 

17 point of information, Roger, has NEMA done an 

18 application analysis? And on what basis do 

19 you find that the applications are, in fact, 

20 the majority are, constrained by how do you 

21 make that statement? 

22 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

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1 I don't know if I can answer that 

2 directly. It's just what you have been told 

3 today is that -- because some of your 

4 examples, you talk about increasing the core 

5 length by 105 percent. And you've got to 

6 realize that if you did that to someone's 

7 piece of equipment, you would produce a motor 

8 that, as you have been told, just won't fit in 

9 that piece of equipment. 

10 So the person who is trying to 

11 replace a motor because it burns out isn't 

12 going to be able to do so. An OEM that has 

13 been marketing that equipment for 15 or 20 

14 years now suddenly has to totally redesign his 

15 piece of equipment. 

16 I know you said you tried to 

17 include that in the life-cycle cost analysis, 

18 but unless you have an item in there that 

19 says, "Well, this is what it is going to cost 

20 for that person to redesign his equipment, 

21 that OEM, and this is what it is going to cost 

22 those users who can't do any replacements 

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1 anymore, then you have to question your 

2 life-cycle analysis." 

3 So it seems to me it's easier if 

4 you first screen out that because I increase 

5 the core length too much, I can't go into 

6 these applications. And so is it really 

7 feasible to even do a life-cycle cost analysis 

8 on it? 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Robert? 

10 Robert, can you just pop that stem up? Will 

11 it go up to -- thank you. 

12 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So Robert Van 

13 Buskirk. 

14 As Michael said, the Department's 

15 criteria for screening analysis does not 

16 include cost. The analysis that is available 

17 for this meeting is a preliminary analysis. 

18 The Department welcomes whatever 

19 comments interested parties may provide on the 

20 costs that would be incurred by consumers from 

21 the characteristics that motors would have 

22 resulting from these higher efficiency 

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1 designs. 

2 So even if the cost isn't included 

3 in the current preliminary analysis, the 

4 Department has the capability of including 

5 such costs in revised analyses. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

7 MR. BOTELER: Yes. I think where 

8 Roger was headed, not even getting to the 

9 costs yet but on the screening analysis, when 

10 we looked at the practicality to install and 

11 service what we mentioned is, as the 

12 dimensions change, it no longer can be 

13 installed. So it no longer performs any 

14 service. 

15 And I guess the product could 

16 still be serviced, but it doesn't fit into the 

17 OEM product. And the utility of the product 

18 is removed because it wouldn't be able to fit. 

19 I think another point, just 

20 talking about the type of product. Because 

21 this is open product, it is more likely to be 

22 in an OEM enclosure. 

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1 And the company that I work for, 

2 we build product for medical equipment. And 

3 in some cases, our dimensions are down to a 

4 thousandth of an inch for plus or minus if 

5 it's acceptable to our customer for his 

6 application. 

7 So when we start talking about 

8 things with increasing the stack length and 

9 changing the C dimension -- we have talked a 

10 lot about the D dimension, which is the shaft 

11 height, but our customers look at the other 

12 dimensions. And the C dimension is the 

13 overall length. If that starts to change, 

14 then we no longer have a product that they can 

15 use. 

16 MR. SCHOLAND: Great. Very 

17 helpful comments. Thank you. 

18 I am just going to mention here on 

19 slide 32, there were 3 technology options that 

20 were screened out. And I have one slide on 

21 each of these. 

22 I want to emphasize -- and Roger 

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1 has already studied that TSD chapter 4 is a 

2 good place to see the full analysis spelled 

3 out in terms of our application of these four 

4 criteria to the technology options. 

5 And now to Rob Boteler's point 

6 about the air gap and the constraints on stack 

7 height and the C dimension in addition to the 

8 D dimension, I'm wondering if industry could 

9 comment on the sort of degree to which some of 

10 these technology options to improve efficiency 

11 could be allowed, like, for example, you had 

12 provided to us that had a stack length 

13 increase of 250 percent. We thought that was 

14 a lot. 

15 And so the stack length constraint 

16 we applied to the engineering was 100 percent, 

17 a doubling. Should it only be 50 percent? 

18 And on the radial air gap, I 

19 understand you find that increasing air gap 

20 can improve efficiency. At this stage we 

21 believe it's the opposite but completely open 

22 to your input on it. 

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1 I'm wondering if there's a radial 

2 air gap constraint, like here we had said 

3 nothing below ten thousandths of an inch as a 

4 constraint. We're going to screen out below 

5 that because we don't think it's practicable 

6 to manufacture. 

7 Are there degrees of these 

8 technology options that are manufacturable and 

9 acceptable? And could you provide comment on 

10 those, either now or in your written comments? 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: John? 

12 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

13 I would just like to talk about 

14 the stack length changes and the examples that 

15 you gave us or that were being discussed. I 

16 mean, like for a 56-frame motor, we're talking 

17 about a motor that is sort of in the middle of 

18 the horsepower range that we build that motor 

19 at. 

20 Think about the motors that are at 

21 the upper end of that band, the 

22 two-horsepower, maybe the three-horsepower. 

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1 Now the stack length of those motors are at 

2 our maximum capability. 

3 Now, in order to go beyond what 

4 we're doing today, we now have to look at the 

5 equipment that we make for both winding and 

6 inserting the coils, making the frame lengths, 

7 and probably that requires a retooling of our 

8 equipment. 

9 So the examples don't necessarily 

10 relate to the entire product line that is 

11 coming off of a particular lamination. 

12 MR. SCHOLAND: I appreciate that. 

13 Thank you very much for that comment. I will 

14 use that comment to make a plug for the 

15 manufacturers' impact analysis, which Matt 

16 will be presenting later today. 

17 At that stage of the rulemaking, 

18 DOE will be soliciting input from you on 

19 retooling costs, new equipment cost. Should 

20 the Department go to this level, I have to 

21 retool my whole production line. Here's how 

22 many millions it's going to cost me. 

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1 And then we'll prepare for the 

2 Department a cash flow analysis of the impacts 

3 on manufacturers. And that becomes part of 

4 the rulemaking and part of the Secretary's 

5 decision in order to move forward with 

6 standards. 

7 So it is taken into consideration, 

8 just not here in this. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Dale? 

10 MR. BASSO: Dale Basso, WEG 

11 Electric. 

12 When we talk about the changes and 

13 what percentage you can live with, if you look 

14 at -- and I can't speak for all manufacturers, 

15 only what I have experienced. 

16 We had about four different frame 

17 lengths that we standardized down from six 

18 different frame lengths within a given 

19 diameter. And the goal for engineering was 

20 always to design -- they did the electrical 

21 design of a motor. And then they put it in 

22 the shortest frame they could. 

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1 So that there typically wasn't 

2 room to just add core length to a motor to get 

3 more efficiency out of it. You would change 

4 the frame when you added core length. 

5 So I don't know that we can come 

6 up with a number that says you can add 25 

7 percent more core because the whole factor was 

8 if we could fit it into something that was 

9 right on the edge, that's what it got because 

10 cost was always an important driver in 

11 fractional horsepower motors. And you didn't 

12 want to put any more into it than you had for 

13 the design. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob? 

15 MR. BOTELER: Yes. I think, to 

16 elaborate a little bit more on what Dale just 

17 said, when we look at some of the other 

18 options -- and adding copper and increasing 

19 slot fill is certainly one of the options -- 

20 one of the things that we try to do today with 

21 high-volume product is we run it through 

22 automated processes. We go through automated 

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1 winders. 

2 And we have a limit to the amount 

3 of fill that we can do with an automated 

4 winder. So if we decide that we can move to a 

5 higher efficiency but it moves us to a 

6 hand-winding operation, I can't speak for all 

7 of my colleagues here, but I can tell you that 

8 the company that I work for, we will be 

9 looking at low-cost countries. We will not be 

10 looking at North American operations because 

11 moving to a hand operation and more labor cost 

12 we can't be competitive and remain in North 

13 American facilities. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

15 Thank you. 

16 MR. SCHOLAND: Thank you. 

17 So slide 33 is discussing radial 

18 air gap. And DOE screened out radial air gaps 

19 below ten thousandths of an inch, finding that 

20 it is now practicable to install, manufacture, 

21 install, and service. Problems are concerned 

22 in manufacturing and service. The rotor could 

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1 come into contact with the stator. 

2 It was also screened out due to 

3 adverse impacts on customer utility and 

4 reliability and maybe higher failure rates 

5 with these tighter air gaps, particularly for 

6 motors that may have longer stack lengths and 

7 heavier rotors. 

8 Okay? Plastic bonded iron powder. 

9 This is an iron powder alloy suspended in 

10 plastic and shaped into motor components, 

11 eliminating a number of manufacturing steps. 

12 And cleaning the technology up could cut core 

13 losses by as much as 50 percent. 

14 DOE screened this technology out 

15 because we are not aware of it ever being 

16 incorporated into a working prototype of a 

17 small electric motor, as defined by the 

18 statute. And DOE is also uncertain whether 

19 the material has structural integrity to be 

20 formed into a small electric motor. 

21 Finally, DOE is uncertain whether 

22 the classic bonded iron powder would be 

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1 practical to manufacture, install, and service 

2 because there is insufficient information at 

3 this time. 

4 And then, finally, permanent 

5 magnet electric motors. And I apologize. 

6 This should not be in the screening, should 

7 not be a technology option. It is not an 

8 induction motor, as defined by MG1-1987. So 

9 this is not only screened out. It will not 

10 appear in the NOPR. 

11 So the next slide, 36, discusses 

12 technology options that were selected for 

13 further consideration. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Nora? Is 

15 it Nora? 

16 MS. PUMPUNI: Yes, Gloria Pumpuni, 

17 AHRI. 

18 I guess I need some more 

19 understanding of slide 36, the second option, 

20 -- 

21 MR. SCHOLAND: Yes. 

22 MS. PUMPUNI: -- technology option 

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1 there, -- 

2 MR. SCHOLAND: Yes. 

3 MS. PUMPUNI: -- where you want to 

4 remove the skew. I guess I am not quite sure 

5 how -- I don't have a good understanding of 

6 how that would work. Is it a design feature 

7 or is it a manufacturing result to have this 

8 skew? 

9 I am just trying to see how taking 

10 that out completely would impact. 

11 MR. SCHOLAND: There are many 

12 people more qualified than me to respond. And 

13 we'll take the first hand there. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: I see John. 

15 Yes, please? 

16 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

17 I would just like to say skew is 

18 in the rotor core itself, the lamination. 

19 There are slots in the lamination. And 

20 they're not basically being looked at from the 

21 end. The slot has an angle to it from one end 

22 to the other. 

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1 Basically, for a single-phase 

2 motor, which here we're talking about the 

3 capacitor-start induction-run, capacitor-start 

4 run motor. We need to skew for the motor to 

5 start. 

6 So if we removed it by making the 

7 skew from one end to the other straight on the 

8 single-phase motor, the motor will not start. 

9 So it's inherent in the design of the motor. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Gloria, do 

11 you have a follow-on there or are you okay? 

12 MS. PUMPUNI: I guess that is what 

13 I thought because it seemed to me to be 

14 something that would be part of the design. I 

15 guess in your other options, you are talking 

16 about reducing or increasing, and this is 

17 completely eliminating. And I just wanted to 

18 know about that. 

19 MR. SCHOLAND: Sorry. I 

20 appreciate the question, your context for that 

21 question. The Department does consider 

22 technology options that are design-based, 

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1 material-based, or otherwise. 

2 Anything a manufacturer could do 

3 to a motor to make it more efficient could be 

4 classified as a technology option and 

5 considered. So including adjusting dimensions 

6 of core things, adjusting the diameters, those 

7 could all impact, would all impact efficiency. 

8 And so those are called technology options. 

9 They may just be design-based, rather than a 

10 material. 

11 Yes? 

12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: I see 

13 several people wishing to comment. Michael 

14 did not run through all 15 or so of these 

15 items. Specific comments on them would be 

16 helpful now. 

17 Tom? 

18 MR. HINK: Tom Hink. 

19 I am just going to add to what was 

20 already said related to skew that not only 

21 does it impact the starting characteristics of 

22 the motor. It also can impact the noise level 

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1 of the motor. And so that is something else 

2 we have to take into consideration. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

4 Roger? 

5 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

6 Yes. Another concern about skew 

7 that maybe the Department of Energy didn't 

8 recognize in 4.3.2, where they discuss it, is 

9 that they seem to concentrate on the effect on 

10 the torque characteristics. 

11 As I went through the examples, I 

12 don't recall right now having seen an analysis 

13 of pull-up torque, which is the thing that is 

14 related to these cusps and things I referred 

15 to. But since we are dealing with efficiency, 

16 it's interesting there's no statement as 

17 actually what it does do to efficiency. 

18 And in your example for the 

19 three-phase motor that is in appendix 5A, you 

20 assumed a value of stray load loss, which 

21 suggests to me that you may not be calculating 

22 it. And if you do calculate it, skew is one 

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1 of the items that goes into the calculation of 

2 the stray load loss. 

3 So you may have inadvertently not 

4 recognized an effect of skew in making a 

5 determination. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. So 

7 the Department would like now for specific 

8 comments on these items listed, 36, technology 

9 options selected for further consideration. 

10 Yes, please, Molly? 

11 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Molly 

12 Trombley-McCann. 

13 I just wanted to clarify. John, 

14 it sounded like you were saying that skew is 

15 necessary in order for the motor to start so 

16 that removing skew entirely would make the 

17 motor nonfunctional. 

18 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

19 Yes, that's correct. On a 

20 single-phase motor, we need to skew to start. 

21 And, as Roger pointed out, the effect is on 

22 also pull-up torque, which is another 

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1 characteristic for mechanical loads, which 

2 these general purpose motors are intended for. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

4 There are 15 items here or so. 

5 MR. SCHOLAND: If you want me to 

6 read them, Doug? 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. You 

8 should do it for the record as well. Yes. 

9 MR. SCHOLAND: Sure. So just 

10 going down the list: use of a copper diecast 

11 rotor cage; removing skew on the conductor 

12 cage; increasing cross-sectional area of the 

13 rotor conductor bars; increasing end-ring 

14 size; manipulating state or slot size; 

15 decreasing the air gap between rotor and 

16 stator not less than ten thousandths of an 

17 inch; use improved grades of electrical steel; 

18 use thinner steel laminations; anneal steel 

19 laminations; add stack height; that is, more 

20 electrical steel; use high-efficiency 

21 lamination materials; install better bearings 

22 and lubricant; install a more efficient 

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1 cooling system. Okay? 

2 So those are all of the technology 

3 options screened in and considered in the 

4 engineering, but we're taking Roger's comment 

5 about the effect of removing skew on the 

6 torque and the assumptions. We will look into 

7 that, having stray load losses. 

8 Any other comments before we move 

9 on? Because the next speaker is on deck. 

10 (No response.) 

11 MR. SCHOLAND: Matt Nardotti will 

12 now take you through the engineering analysis. 

13 ENGINEERING ANALYSIS 

14 MR. NARDOTTI: Good morning. 

15 Thank you, Michael, for that. My name is 

16 Matthew Nardotti. And I am going to present 

17 the preliminary engineering analysis that was 

18 conducted for this rulemaking. 

19 The engineering analysis is one of 

20 the first major analyses conducted for the 

21 rulemaking. As part of the engineering 

22 analysis, we developed cost-efficiency 

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1 relationships that demonstrate the 

2 manufacturer's selling price necessary for 

3 achieving increased energy efficiency. 

4 The results of this analysis are 

5 used for a downstream analysis, such as the 

6 life-cycle cost analysis, the payback period 

7 analysis, and the national impacts analysis. 

8 I would like to start off by 

9 discussing to go through how we developed the 

10 engineering analysis. The first step in 

11 developing the cost-efficiency relationship is 

12 selecting representative units to perform the 

13 analysis on. 

14 Because there are so many 

15 equipment classes and DOE could not directly 

16 analyze all of them, selection of these units 

17 was critical to facilitate this analysis. 

18 When choosing representative 

19 units, DOE reviewed the small electric motors 

20 determination analysis and manufacturer of 

21 catalogues. While looking over this material, 

22 DOE focused on three variables: motor 

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1 category or polyphase CSCR and CSIR motors, 

2 the number of poles, and the horsepower 

3 ratings. These are the same three ratings 

4 that Michael talked about that define our 

5 equipment classes. 

6 DOE selected a representative unit 

7 from each of the motor categories. So we 

8 selected one polyphase, actually two CSIR 

9 motors and a CSCR motor. 

10 When considering horsepower, we 

11 tried to capture the most common horsepower 

12 ratings in the market for those motor types 

13 for categories. And when we selected a pole 

14 configuration, we only selected four pole 

15 motors. And we did this for two reasons. 

16 First, they have the highest 

17 shipment volume. And four-pole configuration 

18 falls within the middle of the range covered 

19 between two and six poles. So we figured that 

20 when we scale, that would introduce the least 

21 amount of error, when we scale to other 

22 equipment classes. 

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1 So, as I mentioned, we chose four 

2 representative units. And you can see them 

3 here: a polyphase one-horsepower power, 

4 4-pole 56-frame motor; a capacitor-start 

5 induction on half horsepower; 4-pole, 56-frame 

6 motor; a capacitor-start induction run 

7 half-horsepower, 4-pole, 48-frame motor; a 

8 capacitor-start capacitor run three-quarter 

9 horsepower, 4-pole, 56-frame motor. 

10 The horsepower ratings of the 

11 polyphase and CSIR motors was taken directly 

12 from determination analysis and considered to 

13 be the most common in market, as I mentioned 

14 before. 

15 The horsepower rating for the CSCR 

16 motor was taken as another common horsepower 

17 rating for that motor type and also happen to 

18 be right in the middle of the horsepower 

19 ratings for the other two. 

20 One thing I would like to note is 

21 that we chose two CSIR motors with the same 

22 horsepower, same pole configuration but a 

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1 different frame size. So, even though DOE is 

2 analyzing two different representative units, 

3 they still represent the same equipment class 

4 and would be subject to the same standard as 

5 we discussed before. 

6 The reason we did this was to try 

7 and determine some of the different 

8 relationships that frame size can have on the 

9 cost-efficiency relationship. 

10 When DOE conducted the engineering 

11 analysis, we attempted a sort of two-pronged 

12 approach in which manufacturers would provide 

13 their own cost-efficiency curves. And, in 

14 parallel, DOE would develop its own 

15 cost-efficiency curves that could be used to 

16 validate those given to us by the 

17 manufacturers. 

18 To do this, DOE used a 

19 subcontractor with proprietary software to 

20 create our curves. The software helped to 

21 develop an itemized bill of materials that, 

22 along with labor time estimates and markups, 

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1 allowed us to create manufacturer selling 

2 prices for those representative units and 

3 designs. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

5 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

6 Just a question. As I see you're 

7 going to be moving into it, the example 

8 designs in appendix 5A, are those from a DOE 

9 analysis of using this software to arrive at a 

10 design? 

11 MR. NARDOTTI: Yes. They're an 

12 example of this. 

13 So I would like to move on to the 

14 overall methodology that we used after 

15 selecting representative units. This slide 

16 shows step by step the general methodologies 

17 DOE used for the engineering analysis. DOE 

18 began by defining the baseline specifications 

19 for the four representative units that were 

20 shown on the previous slide. 

21 A baseline unit is a reference 

22 point against DOE measures changes in 

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1 manufacturing selling prices and energy 

2 efficiencies. The baseline unit in each 

3 equipment class represents the fundamental 

4 design, against which DOE would apply their 

5 design changes to improve the motors' energy 

6 efficiency. 

7 Because there are no minimum 

8 standards for small electric motors, the 

9 baseline efficiency was selected after 

10 reviewing efficiency ratings from the 

11 determination analysis from manufacturer 

12 catalogues in consultation with the 

13 manufacturers and some technical experts. 

14 More detail on the baseline units is given in 

15 the preliminary TSD chapter 5. 

16 After that, DOE developed design 

17 restrictions, which we have already mentioned 

18 several of them, for the subcontractor. These 

19 restrictions and criteria were used in the 

20 model to ensure that the final motor designs 

21 were both reasonable and manufacturable. 

22 After setting the restrictions, 

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1 DOE developed five designs of increasing 

2 efficiency for each of the representative 

3 units. Design option combinations were 

4 implemented in order of the shortest payback 

5 period to the longest. So we end up graphing 

6 a curve that has increased slope as you 

7 increase efficiency. In other words, DOE 

8 implemented the design options that give the 

9 greatest increase in efficiency for the least 

10 cost first. 

11 Next, DOE took the bill of 

12 materials, labor, time estimates and estimated 

13 manufacturer markups to convert production 

14 costs to a manufacturer selling price. 

15 Finally, DOE compared its curves 

16 to those that were provided by manufacturers. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

18 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

19 With the respect of trying to 

20 cover manufacturer markups and production 

21 costs, as was pointed out earlier, there is a 

22 possibility that you could arrive at a design 

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1 that doesn't fit into present tooling 

2 equipment. 

3 So was the replacement of 

4 equipment considered in doing those 

5 calculations? 

6 MR. NARDOTTI: As Michael 

7 mentioned before, that was not considered for 

8 this part. And in the manufacturer impact 

9 analysis when we come and visit you, we will 

10 talk about those costs and ask you for what 

11 they might be. 

12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: That's 

13 based on the standard designs that you have 

14 constructed. 

15 MR. NARDOTTI: Correct. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

17 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand, 

18 Navigant. 

19 Just to add to what Matt has said, 

20 that is the standard methodology the 

21 Department applies in all of the energy 

22 conservation standards rules, that the 

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1 engineering analysis is based on the 

2 presumption you have the equipment to do the 

3 work. And the manufacturer's impact analysis 

4 is where you quantify the change to equipment 

5 you have today and the equipment you need in 

6 the future. 

7 So they just quantify that cost in 

8 another of the 14 analyses. It is taken into 

9 consideration by the Secretary. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: John first, 

11 please. 

12 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

13 I have a question about your 

14 manufacturer data validation. Could you 

15 explain that a little more? The reason I ask 

16 this is that we have had experience with a 

17 number of different programs that have come 

18 from different sources because of 

19 consolidations that have happened. 

20 In every case, we have had to take 

21 the design program. And we have had to 

22 validate it against the actual production to 

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1 verify that the model that we're using does 

2 give us accurate results. 

3 So unless the actual model has 

4 been compared to an actual product, there is 

5 certainly room for error in the output. 

6 MR. NARDOTTI: The intent of the 

7 validation was that manufacturers provided us 

8 with curves. And then the curves that were 

9 generated by our subcontractor would be 

10 compared. And hopefully there wasn't too much 

11 difference between the two curves. 

12 Jim? 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Jim Raba? 

14 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

15 DOE. 

16 I just want to also mention where 

17 Matt alluded to when we visit you, which means 

18 that in the course of the manufacturer impact 

19 analysis, it has been a longstanding process 

20 here for the Department to actually visit 

21 manufacturers on a confidential basis that 

22 together the specific information about cost, 

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1 things like that, which will then be 

2 aggregated, whatever, masked and used 

3 thereafter in the analysis but to guess these 

4 numbers specifically about these process costs 

5 and all. 

6 So these interviews are very 

7 useful to us. We understand we do not 

8 disclose the data once it is received -- I 

9 don't see it -- but that it is very useful to 

10 know these exact numbers. 

11 Again, there is a presumption we 

12 go by because of our process, but it is 

13 refined more later on in the analyses. So 

14 there will be at some point in time interview 

15 guides sent out from the Department, just a 

16 list of things to discuss and go over what we 

17 can and gather some more data from your 

18 experience as well, too. So it's just the 

19 beginning of the process. We have to operate 

20 under presumptions and process. We, shall we 

21 say, take a closer look as we move along in 

22 our analyses. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: In that 

2 interview process? 

3 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: In the 

4 interview process. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

6 Okay. 

7 Yes, please, Dale? 

8 MR. BASSO: I'm just curious. In 

9 the modeling, did you take into account the 

10 various increments of frame length change or 

11 was it strictly a core length analysis and you 

12 assumed the rest of the mechanical package was 

13 the same for a frame size? 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Michael 

15 Scholand? 

16 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand here. 

17 I'm asking Bill Yeadon from Yeadon 

18 Energy Systems, who did the modeling on our, 

19 on the Department's, behalf, to respond to 

20 some of these comments. He did tell me just 

21 now that his software is validated against 

22 real designs that have been built. 

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1 Bill, could you step up and speak 

2 a little bit to that and the gentleman's 

3 question? 

4 MR. YEADON: Yes. Bill Yeadon 

5 from Yeadon Energy Systems. Our software 

6 basically is based off of algorithms done by 

7 Veinott, Trickey and people like that in the 

8 past. 

9 And we validated against real live 

10 motors. So we're fairly certainly that it is 

11 fairly accurate. Of course, you have to input 

12 the right information. 

13 What was the last question? When 

14 you say "frame," you're talking about the 

15 outside housing? No. We increase stack 

16 length, irrespective of the outside housing. 

17 That's correct. 

18 MR. BASSO: You assumed that one 

19 -- 

20 MR. YEADON: No. We assumed you 

21 had a housing that would fit it. That's 

22 correct. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

2 Thanks for that clarification. 

3 MR. SCHOLAND: Sorry, Matt. Mike 

4 Scholand again. 

5 Dale, if you could suggest ways 

6 that the Department could take into account 

7 housing, the C dimension issues into its 

8 engineering analysis, that would be greatly 

9 appreciated. 

10 MR. NARDOTTI: So I would like to 

11 move on to the design restrictions that we 

12 gave. This slide shows three of the nine 

13 design restrictions that we ultimately 

14 established for the motor designs. 

15 I mentioned that these design 

16 restrictions were meant to ensure a set of 

17 reasonable and manufacturable designs. The 

18 intent was that increasing the efficiency of 

19 the baseline motor, you don't sacrifice 

20 consumer utility. 

21 We also wanted to note that the 

22 manufacturability is on a large-scale. So, as 

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1 Rob Boteler mentioned, with slot fill and 

2 individual pulling of wires, we tried to avoid 

3 that in our first design restriction here. 

4 So the first design restriction 

5 was peak slot fill. The maximum value that we 

6 set for this parameter was 75 percent for an 

7 assumed, as I said, high-volume simultaneous 

8 insertion process. And we defined slot fill 

9 as the area of wire, including installation, 

10 divided by the total slot area available for 

11 the winding. 

12 For the air gap between the rotor 

13 and stator, the air gap between those two 

14 should not be less than ten hundredths of an 

15 inch. Having an air gap tighter than this, 

16 this minimum amount could be problematic and 

17 may cause contact between the spinning rotor 

18 and stator, especially as shaft length 

19 increases. 

20 For a stator slot opening, the 

21 opening in combination with the copper wire 

22 gauges used should graph to a point in the 

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1 level wind area of the blade gap chart taken 

2 from Alliance Winding. Unfortunately, we 

3 don't have that here. We don't show that 

4 chart. But it is available with Alliance 

5 Winding. 

6 Without this restriction, we 

7 expressed concern that there may be too many 

8 issues with wire breakage or jamming of the 

9 manufacturer's tools. 

10 So for the next three, stack 

11 height, as we have already started to discuss, 

12 we allowed a change of up to 100 percent 

13 relative to the baseline height. So that's 

14 doubling the length of the motor. This design 

15 option we felt would enable to regain in 

16 induction when steel grades were improved. 

17 For the locked rotor torque, we 

18 wanted the locked rotor torque to stay within 

19 ten percent of the baseline motor and also be 

20 kept within a specification set forth by NEMA, 

21 MG1-1987 in section 12-32.2 so as to maintain 

22 that it's still covered under the scope. 

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1 Similarly, the locked rotor current should 

2 fall within the specifications of NEMA. 

3 Roger? 

4 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

5 With respect to the locked rotor 

6 current, the reference that is provided here, 

7 design in, is for single-phase equipment only. 

8 It is a different table that applies to the 

9 polyphase. It is also covered by small 

10 motors. 

11 And the values are different in 

12 the two tables. 

13 MR. NARDOTTI: This was just an 

14 example of one of the numbers from the table. 

15 It wasn't meant to apply to one of the -- 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: However, 

17 the specifics can be very important. So I'm 

18 glad you raise them when you do. 

19 Yes, please? 

20 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

21 Yes. I wasn't questioning the 

22 value but the fact that you are referencing 

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1 the particular table. And you also did that 

2 over in chapter 5. 

3 MR. NARDOTTI: Okay. 

4 MR. DAUGHERTY: So my point is 

5 that you never discuss the table that applies 

6 to polyphase equipment. 

7 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you. This 

8 slide has the last three design restrictions 

9 we used: breakdown torque. Similarly, again, 

10 we wanted to keep it within the restrictions 

11 set forth in NEMA. 

12 The cooling system, we wanted the 

13 parameters that were directly related to the 

14 motors' cooling system, such as the 

15 ventilation openings in the laminations. They 

16 should not be modified in any manner that will 

17 increase the operating temperature of the 

18 motor. 

19 And rotor skew, the rotor skew may 

20 be altered, but it cannot be raised or lowered 

21 to a point that will introduce harmonics that 

22 adversely affect motor performance or 

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1 introduce cusps in the acceleration curve. 

2 This was brought up a few moments ago. 

3 And this is a design option that 

4 was very subjective to Bill's expertise in 

5 motor design. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

7 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

8 I think there is something else 

9 that you need to include in this 

10 manufacturability in addition to these items 

11 that you have. If we visit appendix 5A and we 

12 look at 5A.1.2, "Rotor Dimensions," I'll note 

13 that what is being discussed here is a 

14 56-frame motor. For a 56-frame motor, the 

15 NEMA standard diameter for the shaft is 

16 five-eighths of an inch. 

17 And it is common that the shaft 

18 diameter that goes under the bearings is 

19 greater than the external shaft diameter. It 

20 is also common that the bearings on both ends 

21 of the machine have the same ID. They can be 

22 different, but it is common that they are the 

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1 same. 

2 So we are at a value that, at 

3 least at the bearings, we are in excess of 

4 five-eighths of an inch. The value that is 

5 given for the rotor diameter in this design is 

6 half an inch. So pressing that rotor that has 

7 a half-inch diameter over those bearings that 

8 are in excess of five-eighths of an inch 

9 diameter would be very difficult to achieve. 

10 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you. 

11 In total, DOE developed 20 

12 designs. After the designs were created 

13 following these guidelines, the next step was 

14 developing costs for each design. 

15 At this point I would like to 

16 discuss the cost model and some inputs that 

17 DOE used to develop the manufacturer selling 

18 prices. As you can see from this graphic, 

19 full production costs along with manufacturer 

20 and markups or the nonproduction costs gives 

21 us a manufacturer selling price. 

22 The full production costs consists 

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1 of direct material, direct labor, factory 

2 overhead, and depreciation. The bulk of the 

3 full production costs can be attributed to 

4 direct material and direct labor costs. And 

5 those costs were calculated from the outputs 

6 of the subcontractor's software. So I would 

7 like to move on to talking about those two, 

8 starting with the bill of materials. 

9 The cost model inputs for 

10 materials are organized into three types of 

11 costs: fixed, variable, and semi-fixed costs. 

12 Fixed costs are for those materials or 

13 components that do not change from design to 

14 design; so, for example, your switches or ball 

15 bearings. 

16 Variable cost items represent 

17 those components that change in both the 

18 amount of material used and the material price 

19 paid from design to design. 

20 An example of this is stator 

21 lamination costs are variable because the 

22 steel grade changes from design-design. When 

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1 the steel grade changes, so, too, does the 

2 price paid per pound, but also so, too, does 

3 the amount of steel that goes into it. 

4 Semi-fixed costs are for those 

5 materials whose prices are constant but the 

6 amount of material used varies depending on 

7 the design. An example of this is the 

8 aluminum or copper used to diecast the rotor. 

9 The price paid for that aluminum or copper 

10 stays the same, but when you lengthen the 

11 motor, the amount of aluminum or copper used 

12 would then increase and change the amount paid 

13 for that. 

14 Here I would like to show a few 

15 specific material costs that we use and 

16 welcome any input to the prices that we used. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Steve 

18 Rosenstock? 

19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock 

20 with EEI. 

21 I am looking at slide 47. As 

22 everyone has seen, commodity markets have gone 

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1 pretty crazy the last couple of years. I 

2 think the recent price of copper on the 

3 exchange was like $1.50 a pound. And so I am 

4 sure aluminum probably went down -- I don't 

5 know -- not as far but significantly. 

6 I am kind of curious how DOE is 

7 going to model some of these pretty wild 

8 gyrations and metal prices over the next few 

9 years. I am not sure where the baseline is 

10 going to be over the next five or ten years. 

11 It's going to be kind of interesting or if 

12 they were going to reach their peaks that they 

13 were just a couple of years ago. 

14 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you for that 

15 comment. We welcome any input on accounting 

16 for those drastic changes in the prices. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Michael 

18 Scholand? 

19 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand. 

20 Just for a point of information 

21 and perhaps a request for input from 

22 manufacturers. We had a similar problem in 

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1 the rulemaking for distribution transformers, 

2 for which material costs are a significant 

3 part of manufacturers' costs. And at that 

4 time steel prices and copper prices and 

5 aluminum were all over the map. 

6 What the Department elected to do 

7 for the final rule was to create a five-year 

8 average price. And I believe it spanned 2001 

9 through 2006 and took a simple average of 

10 those years correcting for inflation over that 

11 time period. And that gave us a value that 

12 was used to create manufacturers' costs for 

13 the year of analysis. 

14 So that is a possible method. And 

15 if manufacturers believe it would be possible 

16 to provide historical trends in material 

17 prices, DOE could do a similar approach on 

18 this rule. 

19 Thank you. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Charlie? 

21 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens, 

22 Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. 

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1 I think when you get into the 

2 life-cycle cost analysis, if I'm not mistaken, 

3 you will be using a distribution of costs for 

4 the motor itself, the resulting motors, at the 

5 various efficiency levels. 

6 And it seems to me that a similar 

7 distribution could be used for the prices of 

8 the materials going into the motor, which 

9 would then produce a distribution of a 

10 different, different distribution perhaps and 

11 a wider distribution of motor costs at the 

12 other end. 

13 But it seems that that same kind 

14 of crystal ball approach could also yield some 

15 interesting information if we don't feel that 

16 things will settle down. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

18 Thank you. 

19 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you. That's 

20 a good comment. 

21 Anything else before I move on? 

22 (No response.) 

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1 MR. NARDOTTI: As I mentioned, the 

2 second major component of the full production 

3 -- 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Let me 

5 emphasize one thing. In your written 

6 comments, please do emphasize how the 

7 Department might deal with these differences, 

8 this variability in costs. Michael suggested 

9 one pathway. If you've got ideas, that would 

10 be very helpful to the Department. 

11 MR. NARDOTTI: The second major 

12 component of the full production cost is the 

13 labor cost. DOE starts with an unburdened 

14 labor rate per hour, shown in this slide, and 

15 then applies several subsequent markups to 

16 calculate the fully burdened labor rate. 

17 The unburdened labor rate was 

18 taken from the 2002 Economic Census of 

19 Industry. The markups for indirect 

20 production, overhead, and the assembly labor 

21 up time were all DOE estimates. The fringe 

22 markup was also taken from the 2002 Economic 

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1 Census of Industry. 

2 I would like to point out the last 

3 markup, the nonproduction markup, because you 

4 will see it again on the next slide. If you 

5 wish for any explanation of what those markups 

6 entail, it's in tiny font below the chart. 

7 It's also in the TSD chapter as well. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

9 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

10 Maybe you will say if I go read 

11 the information, but let me just ask. You 

12 give a markup percentage, and it's based on 

13 something. Could you just go through an 

14 example of how one item that is marked up 33 

15 percent ended up at $18.02 and one that was 

16 marked up 28 percent ended up at $29? 

17 Are you using some other base for 

18 each of these items and then marking that base 

19 up or are you using a common base and marking 

20 each of those items up? 

21 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand. I 

22 can respond as I helped Matt with this table. 

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1 In essence, it's compounding as 

2 you go down the column. So the 33 percent is 

3 applied to the $13.55, to arrive at $18.02; 

4 and then 30 percent, to arrive at $23.43; and 

5 then 28 percent markup to get to 29.99. 

6 As you go down, I'm sorry that the 

7 table is not very clear. I realize now that 

8 you're looking at it. We'll try and make a 

9 little clearer presentation for the NOPR. 

10 Thank you. 

11 MR. NARDOTTI: So this slide shows 

12 three cost model markups, three more cost 

13 model markups, that DOE developed. And 

14 numbers here represent industry averages or 

15 estimates of the industry average. 

16 Scrap factor is a markup used to 

17 account for unused material that is discarded 

18 in the factory. The factory overhead markup 

19 accounts for costs associated with production, 

20 indirect materials, energy use, taxes, and 

21 insurance. 

22 These two markups were only 

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1 applied to the bill of materials. They were 

2 applied in that order and with cumulative 

3 effect, just as the labor rate was marked up. 

4 The similar effect is to the bill of 

5 materials. So the factory overhead markup was 

6 applied to the bill of materials plus the 

7 additional cost of the scrap. 

8 Now, I mentioned that the 

9 nonproduction markup would be shown. And it 

10 is shown again here. DOE estimated this 

11 markup from publicly available financial 

12 information. 

13 Publicly held corporations file 

14 annual reports with the Securities and 

15 Exchange Commission called 10-Ks. Information 

16 contained in these reports, such as total 

17 revenues, allowed DOE to estimate 

18 corresponding markups for each of the 

19 manufacturers and, thus, in industry as a 

20 whole. 

21 This manufacturer markup is to 

22 account for costs associated with sales, 

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1 general administration work, research and 

2 development, interest payments, and profits. 

3 The nonproduction markup was 

4 applied to both the labor rate and the bill of 

5 materials that has been marked up by the scrap 

6 factor and the factory overhead markups. 

7 So when you finally add the 

8 marked-up bill of materials and the labor 

9 estimates, labor cost estimates, you get the 

10 full manufacturer's selling price. 

11 So now I would like to move on to 

12 some of the results that we received. Here we 

13 have the results of the polyphase 

14 one-horsepower 4-pole 56-frame motor. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

16 please? 

17 MR. HORNQUIST: Edwin Hornquist, 

18 Southern California Edison. 

19 I mean, it's a quite drastic 

20 change of course that is visible here. It's 

21 over a 100 percent increase between I guess 

22 premium plus and max. tech. What is driving 

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1 that? 

2 MR. NARDOTTI: The material cost 

3 used for the exotic steel Hiperco 50 that we 

4 used was extremely high. And that definitely 

5 skews the graph that we show here. 

6 In the preliminary TSD, we 

7 actually show this same graph without that 

8 max. tech., the max. tech. point. And you can 

9 see a relationship between those bottom four 

10 points. 

11 The reason we did that is because 

12 when you go from the fourth level to the fifth 

13 level, besides this motor, there was barely 

14 any gain in efficiency. So we thought that 

15 you would get a better idea of the cost 

16 efficiency relationship without seeing that 

17 last point. 

18 MR. SCHOLAND: Excuse me one 

19 second. Mike Scholand. 

20 Just as a point of information, 

21 the slide 47 does not mention the dollar per 

22 pound for Hiperco. The assumption was $75 a 

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1 pound. 

2 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you, Michael. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So if you 

4 are skeptical about such things, it would be 

5 good for you to speak up. 

6 MR. HORNQUIST: Edwin Hornquist 

7 again. 

8 Not that I'm skeptical, I like to 

9 just understand how the prices come about and 

10 what the source of the estimate is. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

12 Thank you. 

13 MR. NARDOTTI: Right. Thank you. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger, did 

15 you have a comment here? 

16 (No response.) 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

18 Thank you. 

19 MR. NARDOTTI: These are some of 

20 the major designs, design specifications that 

21 were found for the polyphase motor that we 

22 analyzed. 

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1 And, as you can see, the torques 

2 remained relatively constant, which was one of 

3 the performance characteristics we wanted to 

4 restrict. 

5 Are there any questions or 

6 comments about those? 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

8 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

9 To understand some of my 

10 questions, we will need to go to appendix 5A, 

11 where I believe the details are provided for 

12 what is listed in table 5.5.2. That's 

13 premium, the 85 and a half percent. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Does he 

15 need to look at it? 

16 MR. DAUGHERTY: I can try to read 

17 them as I go. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

19 MR. DAUGHERTY: As I already 

20 mentioned, I personally have a difficulty with 

21 a half-inch interior diameter rotor and 

22 getting it onto the machine. 

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1 So if I were to assume that it 

2 were to have to go to a more typical value of 

3 close to an inch, that will remove a lot of 

4 material under these rotor slots that are 

5 being used in the model. And something is 

6 going to have to be done with that. 

7 That leads me to look at the rotor 

8 diameter that is being used. And I find that 

9 that is not quite typical of what I see of 

10 four-pole machines, but I won't argue that 

11 there are ways that you can do designs and you 

12 can get different configurations. But once 

13 you raise that ID, I don't think you're going 

14 to be able to work with that OD. 

15 I noticed that in this appendix, 

16 while you do present some of the torque 

17 information and things, it is real interesting 

18 that there is no full load data here, that 

19 while some of that is summarized over in the 

20 main table, it doesn't appear in this analysis 

21 of the machine. 

22 So I tried to look at trying to 

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1 calculate some of the losses and things and 

2 make comparisons against what is in here. 

3 And, as I did those, I got a little concerned 

4 that when I looked at the full load current, I 

5 saw it said it was four amps. 

6 Typically for a standard efficient 

7 motor in this product range and even as we 

8 have looked into premium efficiency motors, we 

9 see levels that are down around three amps and 

10 less. 

11 So it led me to a power factor. 

12 And I found that when I tried to get power 

13 factor, which wasn't in the tables, that the 

14 power factor of this machine appears to be 

15 around 54 percent, which is a very, very low 

16 power factor. 

17 Manufacturers have been pushed 

18 upon by their users and their OEMs to keep 

19 that power factor up as high as possible. 

20 And, if I could just give you an example, my 

21 father had a motor repair business in a rural 

22 area in Ohio. It's probably 100-200 miles 

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1 away from the power plant. 

2 And although all he was doing was 

3 repairing farm motors and small motors and low 

4 integral horsepower, the power company came 

5 in. And they installed a power factor meter 

6 on his facility. So that if he tested one of 

7 those motors -- and the only other stuff in 

8 there is lighting and a few other pieces of 

9 equipment. 

10 So when he would try to test a 

11 20-horsepower motor, which was a rare build 

12 for him, that would drive his power factor 

13 down. And suddenly he would get penalized. 

14 And so we have these pushes from 

15 our customers that when you go from three to 

16 four amps, that is current. You're having to 

17 draw through the whole power system to get to 

18 that motor. And so power factors vary serious 

19 criteria in our designs. 

20 So I think that's another thing 

21 that I'm saying you have to look at when you 

22 are trying to arrive at these designs. So, 

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1 like I said, I was just amazed that it wasn't 

2 convenient. 

3 I couldn't find any of the loss 

4 breakdown in the data. So, like I said, I had 

5 to try to revive what that information was, 

6 how much was loss in stator, what the rotor 

7 loss was. I see stray load loss was an 

8 assumed value of one percent. 

9 If you go to the IEEE standard 

10 112, which is our recommended test procedure 

11 for polyphase motors, you will see that if you 

12 don't follow one of the test procedures for 

13 measuring stray load loss, the assumed value 

14 for one horsepower to -- I forget the upward 

15 number right now -- is 1.8 percent. It's not 

16 one percent. 

17 Of course, as we move into more 

18 highly efficient motors, we certainly are 

19 working to reduce that stray load loss. And 

20 that 1.8 percent, of course, is from a 

21 standard that was written well before my time. 

22 And I became involved in that standard. 

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1 The other thing I noticed, that 

2 when I was looking at the rotor resistance of 

3 the design, I was struck by that because I 

4 thought, "Well, wait a minute. I'm given a 

5 full-load speed here of 1,709 rpm." 

6 So I go to various product 

7 catalogues and things. And what I find is 

8 1,785 rpm. So I wondered, "Well, why is this 

9 speed so low?" Well, it's related to that 

10 rotor resistance. And that's rotor I squared 

11 R losses. 

12 An another instance, this has 

13 become a serious problem. As we moved into 

14 EPACT of '92 and went into the integral 

15 horsepower motors, DOE put together a 

16 committee of manufacturers, pump suppliers, 

17 users, et cetera, advisers, where we looked at 

18 how we could have improved system 

19 efficiencies. 

20 And we started getting feedback 

21 that as we pushed these more efficient motors 

22 onto the market, we tended to increase the 

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1 speed of the motor. And when we increased the 

2 speed of the motor, the user started getting 

3 more output out of his system. 

4 Well, that looked a benefit, but 

5 the trouble was he was so used to the amount 

6 of output that he did have if he couldn't use 

7 it, he had to throttle it all. 

8 And so now suddenly I see 

9 something that is just the opposite. And I 

10 don't know if this has been considered in your 

11 analysis when you get to your life-cycle costs 

12 and everything, but suddenly the speed here is 

13 way down from what is typical. 

14 So if you were to put this motor 

15 as a replacement motor into a user's 

16 application who is used to running at 1780 

17 rpm, his output of his system is going to go 

18 down. 

19 Now, will that provide the 

20 sufficient output he needs? I can't answer 

21 that. That is up to him to say. So when I 

22 look at this design that is presented, I can't 

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1 manufacture it. I think I would be concerned 

2 about the power factor is very low. I would 

3 be concerned that the speed is low compared to 

4 what is out there in replacements, let alone 

5 all the issues about the stack length and 

6 other criteria. 

7 So, number one, I would certainly 

8 like to see this information increased so that 

9 all of the information of the design is 

10 presented, the loss breakdown so you can get a 

11 feel of where they are at. But be 

12 knowledgeable of when you change things in 

13 this high full-load current. Well, where does 

14 that come from? 

15 You look at no-load current. That 

16 no-load current is high. And that means that 

17 if a customer throttles back and runs this 

18 thing at no load for an extended period of 

19 time, at which he is doing no useful work, he 

 2

20 is pulling more energy through I R losses in a 

21 power system than he would with the motor that 

22 he is replacing. 

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1 All these things are of concern to 

2 the user. And all of these needs to be 

3 addressed when you are trying to arrive at, is 

4 this a satisfactory design for this efficiency 

5 level? And what use is this design going 

6 into? 

7 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

9 Steve Rosenstock? 

10 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, 

11 Edison Electric Institute. 

12 Just to follow up on the power 

13 factor issue, typically, especially for 

14 industrial applications, where there are power 

15 factor meters, utilities want to see a 

16 facility-wide, not equipment by equipment but 

17 facility-wide power factor of greater than 90 

18 percent. 

19 And obviously the larger motors 

20 are well above 90 percent all the time, but, 

21 again, that would be useful information to 

22 have if certain motor designs have 

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1 significantly lower power factors and there is 

2 a possibility, especially in terms of the 

3 life-cycle cost analysis of power factor 

4 penalties, which would affect the economics. 

5 Thank you. 

6 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you. 

7 So here's the second cost 

8 efficiencies curve for the capacitor-start 

9 induction-run, half horsepower, 4-pole, 

10 56-frame motor that we analyzed. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: That's what 

12 I would call a steep increase. 

13 Go ahead. 

14 MR. NARDOTTI: Again, we have some 

15 of the specific design specifics, some of the 

16 major design specifications except, as you 

17 mentioned, power factor, which we will 

18 consider in the next phase. Thank you. 

19 This is the 48-frame CSIR motor 

20 and, as you can see, the efficiency values and 

21 manufacturer selling prices that we found; 

22 again the design specs. 

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1 I'm just running through these. I 

2 don't know if it's worth stating all of the 

3 efficiencies and selling prices that we came 

4 up with. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: I think 

6 it's useful to just briefly describe the 

7 characteristics of each result, of course, not 

8 the entire table but at least for the record 

9 identify them individually. I guess so why 

10 don't you do that. 

11 MR. NARDOTTI: Sure. 

12 MR. HORNQUIST: Edwin Hornquist, 

13 Southern California Edison. 

14 I'm wondering how the calibration 

15 of these estimates compared to the 

16 manufacturer's actual costs of these motors. 

17 MR. NARDOTTI: You mean the curves 

18 that they provided us? 

19 MR. HORNQUIST: Right. 

20 MR. NARDOTTI: Actually, we 

21 entered into nondisclosure agreements with the 

22 manufacturers and did not receive sufficient 

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1 response from them such that we could 

2 aggregate their data without exposing some 

3 sensitive material. So we can't disclose what 

4 those curves were. 

5 MR. HORNQUIST: Edwin Hornquist 

6 again. 

7 I am sure this is -- there is 

8 somewhere in between where information can be 

9 shared so that we know that what we're looking 

10 at is validated with real information from the 

11 market. 

12 I will just bring up -- this is 

13 more of a question, just for information 

14 purposes. If the manufacturers can address 

15 this or perhaps the consultant? 

16 On this Hiperco material, I am 

17 wondering, is this a theoretical motor or is 

18 there a motor that is actually manufactured? 

19 And what is the application? 

20 I mean, the cost is so immense why 

21 would they even be entertained. 

22 MR. NARDOTTI: As Mike mentioned 

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1 in the max. tech. model, we have to account 

2 for all technology options. So this is a 

3 theoretical model. It wasn't one that was 

4 actually built. It was an output of our 

5 subcontractors' design software and a function 

6 of his algorithms. 

7 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand. 

8 Just to add to Matt's response, my 

9 understanding is that this is used where cost 

10 is no object, such as in the space program. I 

11 believe NASA has used Hiperco in some motors 

12 in the space shuttle. That's my 

13 understanding. 

14 MR. NARDOTTI: That's the material 

15 itself, but the design, the max. tech. motor 

16 design, here is not one that was actually 

17 built. 

18 MR. HORNQUIST: Edwin Hornquist 

19 again. 

20 So, just to entertain this idea, 

21 is there any seriousness of ever entertaining 

22 this idea as a possible material for actual 

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1 motors for general service? 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? Do 

3 any of you work for NASA? 

4 MR. BOTELER: I think that for the 

5 applications that we're talking about, that 

6 the cost-benefit would just not be there. To 

7 my knowledge, none of the manufacturers are 

8 looking at this as a solution. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

10 please, Dale? 

11 MR. BASSO: Dale Basso. 

12 I will make a comment to that. 

13 You know, that is one technology they looked 

14 at as manufacturers. As Rob stated earlier, 

15 we have other technologies that will bring 

16 much more benefit to the cost that we're using 

17 to -- 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And they're 

19 not included in the list still? 

20 MR. BASSO: It's not in this list, 

21 things like permanent magnet rotor. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So those 

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1 are the things that would be helpful for the 

2 Department for you to note in your comments. 

3 Robert, please? 

4 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Robert Van 

5 Buskirk. 

6 Just to clarify why the maximum 

7 technologically feasible is included in those 

8 cost curves in this way, when you are doing 

9 the cost-benefit analysis, we have a few 

10 designs. 

11 And you want to be able to look at 

12 the cost curve, even beyond where the current 

13 market is. And you want to be able to 

14 characterize that and see at what point on 

15 increasing efficiency there is a very large 

16 increasing cost. So it's useful to have those 

17 maximum technologically feasible designs to 

18 define the upper end of the cost. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you, 

20 Robert. Okay? 

21 MR. NARDOTTI: If there are no 

22 more questions or comments about these 

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1 designs, I would like to move on to what was 

2 actually excluded from your original packet. 

3 There is the sheet, the single 

4 sheet, on scaling. So this is the last part 

5 of the engineering analysis that I would like 

6 to discuss. And it is how we develop the 

7 method for scaling. 

8 We started off by modeling the 

9 motor losses as a function of horsepower. To 

10 do that, we plotted the standard levels 

11 adopted by the Energy Independence and 

12 Security Act. 

13 The graph here shows a term that 

14 we dubbed as "delta," which represents 100 

15 minus the efficiency level. That was plotted 

16 against the horsepower on a logarithmic scale. 

17 As you can see from the equations 

18 on the graph, delta decreases according to a 

19 power law equation with an exponent value near 

20 -.25 for the 3 different: the 2, 4, and 

21 6-pole motors. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

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1 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

2 Over in clause 5.6.2, where you 

3 address this issue in chapter 5 of the TSD, 

4 you were defining two different deltas. One 

5 was the one that you just mentioned is based 

6 on 100 minus efficiency level. 

7 That is an interpretation, but the 

8 introduction to this, you talk about motor 

9 losses and that you're going to be looking at 

10 losses. But then you get to this delta, as 

11 you have defined it. 

12 It is a concern that manufacturers 

13 have always had that people continue to 

14 prosper with the notion that somehow 

15 efficiency or losses is 100 minus the 

16 efficiency level, which is not a correct 

17 interpretation of motor losses. 

18 But you do have a second 

19 representation of delta, which is essentially 

20 100 over the efficiency level minus the 

21 efficiency level. And that is the true 

22 representation of motor losses or the 

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1 percentage of losses in the machine. 

2 I note that I don't know if you 

3 made that conclusion about this .25 exponent 

4 in looking at delta in the second manner, but 

5 I will note that it is approximately that when 

6 I looked at it. 

7 I would just like to encourage 

8 that the Department of Energy when they're 

9 publishing information and they're trying to 

10 relate to losses and things in motors, that 

11 they use the industry standard relationships. 

12 If it's not necessary to introduce or 

13 continue trying to put out erroneous 

14 relationships, you will not do so. 

15 I think you will reach the same 

16 conclusion here with the way that you were 

17 doing this linearalization on a log-log plot 

18 if you use your second definition and just 

19 strike your first definition totally out of 

20 the document. 

21 I do notice that this chart that 

22 you handed out today does indicate I think 

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1 that the plot is different than it is in 

2 figure 5.6.2 in chapter 5 because in that one, 

3 the relationship you express for the y-axis is 

4 the other delta relationship assuming 

5 efficiency is given in a per-unit value, 

6 instead of a percent value. Yet, your chart, 

7 that value would always be below one. But you 

8 show in your plot that you went above ten as 

9 you got over to the axis. 

10 So that one was confusing to me, 

11 but today it appears that you may have cleaned 

12 it up by using this 100 percent minus 

13 efficiency. But, like I said, I would like to 

14 encourage that you go back and just use 

15 standard relationships for motor losses. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Robert? 

17 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So yes, the 

18 Department looked at both relationships. The 

19 standard relationship of the one over 

20 efficiency minus one yields a slightly 

21 different exponent for the horsepower. 

22 So I guess my question to you is, 

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1 the Department can interpret your comment to 

2 use the standard relationship. And the 

3 slightly different exponent would be your 

4 preference. 

5 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

6 I guess all I can say, the way the 

7 Department is manipulating these numbers, that 

8 yes, using the other relationship would be a 

9 slight change in the exponent. I would not 

10 necessarily say that I agree with the 

11 manipulation the way it is being done, that 

12 projecting information on three-digit frame 

13 sizes back into two-digit frame sizes of small 

14 motors, whether or not that is really a true 

15 projection. 

16 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So can the 

17 Department interpret that comment as saying 

18 that you would like the Department to validate 

19 the relationship for the smaller frame size 

20 motors? 

21 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

22 Yes, that you look into values in 

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1 present product and use those -- if you are 

2 going to in CSLs linearalize on a log-log 

3 scale and don't use integral horsepowers in 

4 three-digit frame sizes. 

5 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: That will be 

6 useful to the Department. Thanks. 

7 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

8 DOE. 

9 Again, just for clarity, if there 

10 is, as you say, just use standard industry 

11 relationships, spell it out. Let us know in 

12 your comments what those relationships are. 

13 I think we've said here, but, 

14 again, in writing, your written comments from 

15 the industry or anyone else who is 

16 understanding this more thoroughly make it 

17 very clear what the thoughts are on that 

18 standard industry relationship. 

19 MR. NARDOTTI: Continuing. So 

20 doing some math that Roger actually alluded to 

21 that's in the preliminary TSD chapter 5, we 

22 end up with the equation that you see at the 

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1 bottom of this page. I would like to point 

2 out two items, two terms from this equation. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: You're 

4 referring to supplement number 1, right, 

5 supplement slide 1? 

6 MR. NARDOTTI: Yes, yes. Excuse 

7 me. 

8 So I would like to point out two 

9 terms of this equation. One of them is that 

10 term "efficiency (1)." This value is the key 

11 to defining similar CSL levels for different 

12 motors. I will actually come back to this 

13 term in a couple of slides to describe how. 

14 The second term I would like to 

15 note is the constant “K," which I will go into 

16 more depth now. To scale from equipment 

17 classes analyzed in the engineering analysis, 

18 DOE needed to make three assumptions. 

19 The first was that efficiency can 

20 be defined as a function of horsepower. The 

21 second was that the standard for 

22 one-horsepower, four-pole open-constructed 

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1 motors was a valid reference point for the 

2 equivalence small electric motor that we 

3 analyzed. Again, that deals with the term 

4 "efficiency (1)," and I'll come back to. 

5 The last assumption that we needed 

6 to make was that a similar efficiency level, 

7 for example, a NEMA premium level, for 

8 different equipment classes can be described 

9 by some constant, which is this value K. 

10 K is used to describe changes when 

11 scaling from a polyphase motor to either a 

12 CSIR motor or a CSCR motor but also from 

13 scaling to a two-pole or six-pole from a 

14 four-pole motor. 

15 The ratio of the lead coefficients 

16 on the equations that were on the previous 

17 graph was taken. And that's how we developed 

18 or calculated the numbers that you see in the 

19 column for polyphase. 

20 When scaling to other motor 

21 categories, it was a little more complicated. 

22 DOE took an efficiency value near the max. 

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1 tech. level that was a result of the CSIR and 

2 CSCR engineering analysis results. 

3 This value along with the 

4 corresponding horsepowers were plugged into 

5 the scaling equation that we showed. And from 

6 there, we could solve for K. 

7 And those K values are on the row 

8 for four-pole motors. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

10 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

11 I would just like to ask why you 

12 went to the trouble of trying to create this K 

13 value when in a previous slide, number 1, you 

14 did a linearalization on two poles, four 

15 poles, and six poles. 

16 So why do you start at a four to 

17 move to a two or a six and just not use the 

18 information you had directly? 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Robert? 

20 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So the 

21 information that the Department has on the two 

22 poles, four poles, and six poles is from the 

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1 standard levels at the medium motors. 

2 So the question is, when the 

3 Department is developing new costs and new 

4 efficiency levels for the fractional 

5 horsepower motors or the two-digit frame 

6 sizes, what will the relationship be between 

7 the several efficiency levels being considered 

8 for the four-pole and analyzed with the 

9 engineering data for the four-pole and the 

10 corresponding efficiency levels for the two 

11 and six-pole. 

12 So the coefficient that is used to 

13 adjust between essentially a constant of 

14 proportionality that's equivalent to the 

15 constant of proportionality in the 

16 relationship for the medium motors. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

18 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

19 But that brings up a question. 

20 Why do you find four poles to be the most 

21 important criteria as your base, rather than 

22 use two, four, and six separate information? 

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1 Because a two-pole design, such as 

2 the rotor OD, is usually very different to the 

3 four-pole and a four-pole may be different 

4 than a six-pole. 

5 So why did you settle on four-pole 

6 as the base point? 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The Department 

8 selected a subset of all possible designs to 

9 analyze in the engineering analysis. My 

10 understanding is the four-pole is the most 

11 common design. And so when it was selecting a 

12 limited number of all possible designs, it 

13 selected the most common. 

14 Yes? 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Matthew, 

16 you would agree? Yes. 

17 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. But, in 

18 addition, your comment, the Department 

19 welcomes comments on the scope, on any piece 

20 of the analysis and the scope of the 

21 engineering analysis. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Robert, I 

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1 thought that you were a representative. The 

2 Department said earlier that you thought the 

3 four-pole was a good place to extrapolate 

4 from. Somebody did. 

5 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Well. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, yes. 

7 It's based on volume, you think? That was the 

8 -- okay. 

9 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: And based on the 

10 consistency of the relationship between the 

11 efficiency levels for the medium motors. Now, 

12 with new information, the Department can come 

13 up with -- 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So yes, 

15 Roger, do you want to follow on here? 

16 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

17 I guess a very important question, 

18 then, the implication that you have given to 

19 me is that the four-pole motors will be used 

20 through this design program to do analysis to 

21 determine possible efficiency levels, but when 

22 it gets to two and six, you are not going to 

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1 use that program. And you are just going to 

2 go off and use these relationships that were 

3 derived to extrapolate and come up with the 

4 efficiency levels that will go into the 

5 standard. 

6 Is that a correct interpretation 

7 of what you are saying? 

8 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: That is what the 

9 Department has done in the preliminary 

10 analysis. The Department welcomes comments on 

11 how to improve the analysis between the 

12 preliminary stage and the NOPR stage. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Just to 

14 confirm, you do not have the data presently 

15 for two-pole, four-pole, and six-pole? 

16 MR. NARDOTTI: The design? No, we 

17 do not. We did not. The representative units 

18 we selected were all four-pole motors. And we 

19 extrapolated from that polyphase 

20 one-horsepower, four-pole motor because it was 

21 also the most similar to a standard that is 

22 already in practice. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

2 Thank you. 

3 So additional comments from our 

4 bank of manufacturers here before we press on? 

5 (No response.) 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

7 MR. NARDOTTI: So now I'm going to 

8 go back to that "efficiency (1)" term that was 

9 in the preliminary equation. We have shown 

10 here preliminary CSL levels for the equipment 

11 classes that we analyzed. 

12 And one note I would like to bring 

13 up is that the frame size wouldn't necessarily 

14 need to be a part of this chart because the 

15 equipment classes that we defined earlier are 

16 independent frame sizes. 

17 I have highlighted 85.5 percent in 

18 red because this is the NEMA premium level for 

19 a four-pole one-horsepower open-constructed 

20 polyphase motor, the medium motors. 

21 DOE chose that as a reference 

22 point because it is a standard for a motor 

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1 very similar to the polyphase motor that we 

2 analyzed. We did not want that to be the 

3 lowest preliminary CSL level, however. So we 

4 chose another level a little bit lower and 

5 made that CSL level 1. 

6 An efficiency value near the max. 

7 tech. level for the polyphase motor analyzed 

8 was then taken as the upper bound for CSL 

9 level 5. And then CSL levels 3 and 4 were 

10 chosen as disbursed levels in between the NEMA 

11 premium level and the max. tech. level. 

12 Those values for the polyphase 

13 four-pole one-horsepower motor I used in the 

14 scaling equation that we saw. And they are 

15 plugged in as that term "efficiency (1)" to 

16 generate different CSL levels, other motor 

17 types. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

19 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

20 As I mentioned earlier, back in 

21 2007, you did request the information on four 

22 designs as to efficiency levels of three 

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1 classifications: standard efficient, energy 

2 efficient, and premium efficient. 

3 I would just suggest that this 

4 value that you have chosen for the polyphase 

5 of 85 and a half percent was the value that 

6 was given in that response coming from NEMA, 

7 from the motor manufacturers. 

8 When you select candidate level 

9 number one, the response that was returned to 

10 you as energy-efficient was 78 and a half 

11 percent, rather than 84.0. 

12 I would only make that point that 

13 when you are trying to do your cost-benefit 

14 analysis and make cost comparison analyses and 

15 things, that if you are looking for the 

16 support of manufacturers and you want to try 

17 to get some reasonable estimation of the cost 

18 of at least those two candidate levels which 

19 actually exist in the market, not necessarily 

20 to the same frame length but that they do 

21 exist in the market, that when you are trying 

22 to gather that data, if you were to choose 

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1 that value that was given to you of 78 and a 

2 half percent, you might be able to obtain 

3 information cost-wise of that size motor and 

4 the 85 and a half and start checking that 

5 against your models and things that you are 

6 trying to compare. 

7 So it may be of benefit that you 

8 go back and for candidate level number one, 

9 you use the values that NEMA supplied to you 

10 for energy-efficient in the selection of those 

11 values. 

12 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you very much 

13 for that comment. And we will definitely 

14 consider that. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

16 MR. NARDOTTI: Well, that's the 

17 end of the engineering analysis. And if there 

18 are any other comments on the engineering? 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

20 please, Gloria? 

21 MS. PUMPUNI: Gloria Pumpuni, 

22 AHRI. 

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1 I am just curious as to if you 

2 guys looked at any interactions between the 15 

3 technology options and tried to optimize that, 

4 if there's any analysis on that, whether you 

5 picked certain options, whether picking one 

6 option meant that other option wasn't 

7 available, and if you looked at all of that 

8 together to optimize the choice of technology. 

9 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand. 

10 To clarify what you're asking, 

11 you're asking, did we look at each of the 15 

12 options individually and then sort of create a 

13 prioritization? 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Or a 

15 hierarchy? 

16 MS. PUMPUNI: No. Gloria Pumpuni, 

17 AHRI. 

18 Actually, looking at the 

19 interactions between the 15 and trying to 

20 optimize which technologies to apply. 

21 MR. SCHOLAND: I guess I will take 

22 a first stab at that. And, Bill, feel free to 

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1 add. Mike Scholand again. Sorry. 

2 All of those options were in play 

3 in the software. And the objective that we 

4 asked Bill to come up with was to create the 

5 least-cost path to efficiency. So perhaps 

6 copper in the rotor bars was not something he 

7 considered first because he knew that was 

8 expensive. And he did other measures first. 

9 So I'm not sure how many 

10 iterations he did to come up with the designs 

11 that are in the engineering, but our direction 

12 was to find the least-cost path and to 

13 consider all 15 things as in play with the 

14 constraints that Matt mentioned in terms of 

15 manufacturability. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Please, 

17 Molly? 

18 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Molly 

19 Trombley-McCann. 

20 Realistically speaking, do you 

21 know if any of those 15 options are mutually 

22 exclusive? 

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1 MR. SCHOLAND: Sorry, Molly. Mike 

2 Scholand here. We're just checking. Thank 

3 you. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Does it 

5 come up later in the discussion, Michael? No? 

6 Okay. Just keep checking. We're going to go 

7 to lunch here shortly, folks, just so you're 

8 aware. 

9 I will allow you to check in, Tom? 

10 MR. HINK: Yes. Tom Hink, 

11 Regal-Beloit. 

12 I just did a very simple exercise 

13 of taking your chart number 3, where you had 

14 the preliminary -- 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: This is the 

16 supplement? 

17 MR. HINK: Right. This is the 

18 supplement, which is slide number 3, -- 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Number 3, 

20 yes. 

21 MR. HINK: -- the preliminary 

22 candidate standard levels. And I merely wrote 

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1 in all of the efficiency levels that you had 

2 on your larger charts that you previously had 

3 showed them. There doesn't seem to be a very 

4 good correlation when you compare each of the 

5 different five levels to the five levels that 

6 we had on those charts. 

7 You know, for example, if you're 

8 looking at the CSL 1 levels for the polyphase, 

9 on your slide 3, it says 84 percent. But on 

10 the analysis that was done earlier, it's only 

11 75.8. 

12 Likewise, if you look at the CSL 

13 level 1 for the CSIR, the capacitor 

14 induction-run, on your slide 3, it says 70.8. 

15 But on your previous analysis, it was 62.3. 

16 And so some numbers are fairly 

17 close, but there are some that are quite off. 

18 And I'm just curious if someone can comment 

19 on that. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Robert? 

21 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Robert Van 

22 Buskirk. 

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1 A key reason for the scaling and 

2 trying to get the levels to have a 

3 relationship between the different products is 

4 in a previous rulemaking, the Department had 

5 many different product classes. And when it 

6 independently selected levels for each of the 

7 different product classes, there became 

8 inconsistencies between the consumer economics 

9 in the levels between product classes. 

10 So in this particular case, the 

11 levels are being chosen by the Department to 

12 try to have a consistency on the consumer 

13 economic side of the equation, which means 

14 that there's an adjustment between the designs 

15 and efficiencies that are examined in the 

16 engineering analysis and the levels that are 

17 examined for the sake of the economic 

18 analysis. 

19 The Department used an 

20 interpolation to try to estimate what the 

21 equivalent costs would be for these 

22 intermediate levels. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, Roger? 

2 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

3 But if you're going to do that 

4 analysis and do the projection, probably the 

5 more troubling comparison of these two tables 

6 is the premium value. In chapter 5, for the 

7 premium value, if I read correctly, the 

8 purpose of appendix 5-A was to provide a 

9 design that had that premium efficiency level 

10 in its calculated value, although, again, I'll 

11 note that when you get to the appendix, there 

12 is no efficiency value for those ratings in 

13 there. So unless you read chapter 5, you're 

14 left with trying to wonder what this design is 

15 actually applied to. 

16 But it just seems that if you 

17 chose for the capacitor-start induction-run 

18 for a premium efficiency level -- and I assume 

19 that's CSL 2 of 73.6 percent -- why didn't you 

20 do the engineering analysis to find a design 

21 that was at that percent, that efficiency? 

22 Why is the engineering analysis at a different 

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1 efficiency level? 

2 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: In the 

3 preliminary analysis, the Department did the 

4 engineering analysis, did an adjustment of the 

5 levels for the economic analysis, and did not 

6 close the loop to recalculate the engineering 

7 designs based on the adjustment. 

8 Now, for the NOPR analysis, the 

9 Department welcomes comments on how to improve 

10 that process. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

12 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

13 Then perhaps someone would like to 

14 explain how you did the economic analysis, 

15 which included the cost of producing a motor 

16 if you didn't have the design for what you 

17 were doing the economic analysis for. 

18 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The Department 

19 had the cost characteristics of a more 

20 efficient design and a less efficient design 

21 and interpolated between those two. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So in those 

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1 two cases, you did have a -- 

2 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: We had a more 

3 efficient design, and we had a less efficient 

4 design. And the Department interpolated. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Basically a 

6 stock design for each of those? 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Right. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 

9 Michael Scholand? 

10 MR. SCHOLAND: Mike Scholand. 

11 Two comments. One to this 

12 discussion. I think the Department will be 

13 doing new designs for the NOPR, taking into 

14 account power factors that have been raised 

15 today and trying to get designs that are 

16 closer to the candidate standard levels that, 

17 as Robert explained, it is sort of a linear 

18 process to get a preliminary idea about what 

19 the candidate standard levels should be, get 

20 some feedback on those, and then go back and 

21 do the engineering to try and get designs that 

22 fall into the sweet spot. 

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1 Secondly, to Molly's question, 

2 whether any of the 15 designs or technology 

3 options are mutually exclusive, Bill's answer 

4 is no. So all 15 options were in play when he 

5 was looking at design improvements and 

6 creating the least-cost path to efficiency. 

7 Thank you. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: It's 

9 getting on toward lunch, past lunchtime, in 

10 fact. So let's take any final comments on 

11 this segment should there be any before we 

12 head out of here for a while. 

13 MR. HORNQUIST: A very quick one. 

14 Edward Hornquist, Southern California Edison. 

15 Just for the record, it's not 15, 

16 but it's 13. 

17 MR. SCHOLAND: Oh, thank you. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thirteen? 

19 What was it? 

20 MR. HORNQUIST: Technology 

21 options. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

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1 I misspoke in the beginning. I just made a 

2 guesstimate. Yes. Thank you. 

3 So it's now 12:45. It always 

4 takes just about an hour to eat lunch in the 

5 Forrestal Building, and that's if you go 

6 off-campus. You must stay on campus. 

7 Otherwise you won't be back when we start at 

8 1:45, back here in this room. 

9 This room will be locked. So you 

10 can leave all of your stuff here. Those of 

11 you who are familiar with the building, there 

12 is a big cafeteria, a full-service cafeteria, 

13 across the street. So you have to go down to 

14 the ground level and go underneath the street 

15 to get there. There's also a smaller snack 

16 bar one floor below where you got your coffee 

17 this morning if you went there. 

18 So we will resume. Wear your 

19 badges inside the building. We'll resume in 

20 an hour, 1:45. 

21 (Whereupon, a luncheon recess was 

22 taken at 12:46 p.m.) 

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1 A-F-T-E-R-N-O-O-N S-E-S-S-I-O-N 

2 (1:44 p.m.) 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So let's 

4 resume. Welcome back. Glad to have you here. 

5 I hope lunch was okay. Several people have 

6 mentioned that they have flights leaving in 

7 the 6:00 o'clock time frame-ish. 

8 So we're going to try and press 

9 ahead, as we did this morning, and cover as 

10 much ground as we can efficiently and try to 

11 be done, say, 4:00-ish, no later than 

12 4:00-ish. Okay? So that's the plan. 

13 And I think, unless anybody has 

14 anything that they wish to return to from the 

15 morning, we're going to move on to the next 

16 item on the agenda and to Robert. Okay? 

17 We're moving on. 

18 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Okay. Thank you 

19 very much. 

20 ENERGY USE & END-USE LOAD CHARACTERIZATION 

21 AND MARKUP ANALYSIS 

22 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So now we are on 

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1 to the more economic impact analysis pieces of 

2 the preliminary analysis. What I would like 

3 to emphasize is that this is the preliminary 

4 analysis stage. 

5 So for the sake of transparency, 

6 the Department endeavors to keep the analysis 

7 simple when it is possible to keep the 

8 analysis simple. But if there are important 

9 pieces of detail and important factors to 

10 include, then the Department welcomes comments 

11 that allows it to make more accurate estimates 

12 and to include all of those various factors or 

13 many of those various factors that interested 

14 parties would like included in the analysis. 

15 So please look at the talk as a 

16 framework for including all of your concerns 

17 and for framing the inputs that you would like 

18 the Department to consider when it looks at 

19 the benefits and costs of the standard. 

20 So this next section covers 

21 markups for equipment price determination. 

22 And right after that, we will discuss the 

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1 energy use and end use load characteristics. 

2 So the markups to determine 

3 equipment price have the purpose of 

4 determining consumer prices under a standard 

5 scenario based on manufacturer cost, 

6 characterizing the equipment distribution 

7 channels and market segments, describing small 

8 electric motor equipment distributor 

9 wholesaler direct cost expenses and profits. 

10 Our inputs, we tend to get inputs 

11 from firm balance sheets and various aggregate 

12 economic data; for example, from the U.S. 

13 economic census. 

14 The key output that we have for 

15 the markup analysis is the markup factors, 

16 both for the baseline equipment, the case of 

17 no standards and for incremental costs that 

18 may occur along the various steps of the 

19 distribution chain. 

20 So here we have a diagram that 

21 illustrates the distribution chain as it was 

22 described in the determination analysis and as 

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1 the Department has used it in the preliminary 

2 analysis. 

3 The different proportions of the 

4 pieces of the distribution chain or 

5 distribution channels are taken from the 

6 determination analysis. The Department, of 

7 course, welcomes comments as for whether or 

8 not those different distribution channels are 

9 larger or smaller compared to what the 

10 Department has put in the preliminary 

11 analysis. 

12 So let's go through the three 

13 distribution channels. One is to sell 

14 directly to an original equipment 

15 manufacturer, who then may be putting the 

16 small electric motor into a piece of 

17 equipment. 

18 That original equipment 

19 manufacturer then will have an equipment 

20 distributor. And depending upon the type of 

21 equipment, that equipment then may have 

22 installation costs. And adding up all of 

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1 those pieces of the chain will come up with an 

2 end use installed cost. 

3 In addition, sometimes the 

4 manufacturers will sell their motors through a 

5 wholesaler, who then will either sell to the 

6 original equipment manufacturers, or to more 

7 the separate motor to the consumer, we put 

8 between the motor wholesaler motor retail 

9 distribution and then an installation cost and 

10 a consumer. And then the other path is the 

11 wholesaler, OEM equipment, distribution, 

12 installation to consumer. So on the markups, 

13 relate consumer price... 

14 Yes? 

15 MR. BOTELER: This is Rob Boteler. 

16 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Why don't I stop 

17 for comments. 

18 MR. BOTELER: I would just say we 

19 would I think looking at your percentages to 

20 the channel in this particular product the way 

21 we now understand the definition, we would say 

22 I think more like 65 percent goes direct to 

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1 the OEM equipment manufacturer, 30 percent to 

2 a distributor that then goes into the 

3 equipment, and probably only 5 percent that 

4 actually get sold to an end user again because 

5 this type of product has a fairly short life 

6 span and so does the equipment that it is 

7 being used in. 

8 So there really isn't that much of 

9 an after-market. There is some, but not as 

10 much as 35 percent, I wouldn't say. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

12 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Thank you very 

13 much. 

14 So there are both baseline and 

15 incremental markups. The markups relate the 

16 consumer price, usually deriving it by 

17 analyzing the cost of goods sold for the 

18 distributor. Baseline markups relate price to 

19 cost prior to the change in efficiency. The 

20 incremental markups relate to incremental 

21 change in consumer price based on the 

22 incremental costs of efficiency. 

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1 So some distribution costs remain 

2 constant, with cost of goods sold increases. 

3 Incremental markups cover only expenses that 

4 vary with cost of goods sold, in this case 

5 expenses that increase due to an increase in 

6 equipment efficiency. 

7 Now, earlier today there was 

8 mention that some of the higher efficiency 

9 equipment may create additional costs for the 

10 original equipment manufacturers. So this 

11 would be a good section for stakeholders who 

12 are concerned about additional costs to 

13 equipment and original equipment manufacturers 

14 to make comments on: at what point, at what 

15 efficiency levels, and under what conditions 

16 these manufacturers would incur extra costs 

17 and how those costs would change with the 

18 characteristics of the motor. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

20 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

21 Just as an aid in trying to make 

22 comments because we're getting into -- I'm 

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1 trying to track what chapter we're in with 

2 various items. If you could just mention what 

3 chapter this information is in? 

4 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Chapter 6. 

5 MR. DAUGHERTY: Then we can refer 

6 to it to try to get to it. 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: It's chapter 6. 

8 Though if you make -- 

9 MR. DAUGHERTY: Chapter 6? That's 

10 not the title of what you're talking about. 

11 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Chapter 6 is 

12 markups. 

13 MR. DAUGHERTY: Chapter 6 is 

14 energy use. 

15 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Oh, sorry. 

16 Chapter 7. Sorry. 

17 MR. DAUGHERTY: So have you 

18 skipped over 6 or are you going back to 6? 

19 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: I'm going to go 

20 back to energy use. So I'm skipping over the 

21 chapters a little bit for the sake of logical 

22 presentation, though if you make a comment on 

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1 costs to equipment manufacturers, the 

2 Department will be able to put that in the 

3 right category. 

4 So onward. So this table presents 

5 the factors that the Department used, both 

6 baseline and incremental. And I think the 

7 table is pretty self-explanatory. 

8 You see that, for example, for 

9 equipment manufacturers, that a baseline 

10 markup is 1.37. The incremental is 1.27 

11 because some of the costs, sometimes for the 

12 incremental, if there is no additional labor, 

13 then that is a cost that doesn't need to be 

14 recovered in the markup. 

15 If the original equipment 

16 manufacturer incurs extra costs due to 

17 efficiency, then, instead of being less than 

18 the baseline markup, it's possible for the 

19 incremental markup to be bigger than the 

20 baseline markup. 

21 So down at the bottom, you see the 

22 range of overall markups goes from a low 2.17 

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1 for the baseline when you go via distributor 

2 to end users, 1.53 for the incremental. And 

3 then in the high case, where it's going 

4 through the maximum number of steps in the 

5 distribution chain, the baseline is 2.95 and 

6 2.93 for the incremental. So those are the -- 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Dale? 

8 MR. BASSO: Yes. Dale Basso, WEG. 

9 A question on evaluating the 

10 costs. We know you didn't consider the frame, 

11 and we'll talk about that. We'll give you 

12 some input on that. What about freight and 

13 the additional cost of moving product around 

14 with additional weight? 

15 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: We did not 

16 include freight in the preliminary analysis. 

17 If you believe freight is an important factor, 

18 please do feel free to comment on that. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: You didn't 

20 include it in the preliminary analysis. Will 

21 you include it in later analysis? 

22 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: I usually try 

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1 not to forecast the Department's analysis 

2 before it is done. In other analyses, the 

3 Department has included freight costs, no 

4 problem. The reason it was included in 

5 previous analyses and not this one was that 

6 the size of the motors is relatively small. 

7 And the Department did not know that the few 

8 pounds of difference due to the increased 

9 efficiency was going to have a significant 

10 impact on the freight costs. 

11 But if interested parties know 

12 that the increased weight does have a 

13 significant impact on the freight costs and 

14 approximately what those impacts might be, 

15 then that would be very useful information for 

16 the Department. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Jim Raba? 

18 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

19 Department of Energy. 

20 Yes. That was a good 

21 clarification, Robert. As I understand it, 

22 shipping is really incremental cost of a 

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1 standard motor, of an efficient motor by 

2 weight and other characteristics. So there 

3 would be a difference, a delta there that we 

4 would have to look at. 

5 And certainly if you have some 

6 ideas, rates, data, the actual data perhaps, 

7 within value and quantities shipped and what 

8 those are, even with tariff reductions by 

9 amount shipped or distances, which may be out 

10 there, be it rail or other trucks, too, 

11 certainly bring it to our attention, data. 

12 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. And 

13 freight costs may vary quite a bit depending 

14 upon the shipping channel. So if interested 

15 parties have information on what shipping 

16 channels tend to be used for shipping such 

17 motors, then that will assist the Department 

18 in estimating the freight costs. 

19 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: We 

20 appreciate the comment. Thank you, Dale. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: John? 

22 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

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1 I just had a question about the 

2 contractor cost. Does that include both the 

3 labor to install plus the markup of the 

4 product? 

5 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The Department 

6 examined the cost-estimating data in RS Means. 

7 And in the RS Means cost estimate for 

8 installation of the motors, the labor cost did 

9 not vary. So there is no -- the Department 

10 included the labor cost of installation as a 

11 separate item. That did not vary with 

12 efficiency. 

13 But a contractor that is 

14 installing the motor usually marks up the 

15 materials that they're installing. So the 

16 contractor markup here is on the cost of the 

17 motor, not including the labor of 

18 installation, which is added later as a 

19 separate installation cost. That is fixed 

20 with efficiency because RS Means had a range 

21 of estimates for a range of motor sizes. All 

22 of the two-digit frame motor sizes had a 

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1 constant installation labor according to the 

2 RS Means. 

3 Any other comments or questions? 

4 (No response.) 

5 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Now, energy use, 

6 which is chapter 6. So motor losses, as 

7 discussed in the engineering section, include 

 2

8 I R losses, both stator and rotor, core 

9 losses, stray losses, friction, and windage 

10 losses. 

11 For the mathematical description 

12 of the losses, the Department simplified it 

13 into a constant and a load-dependent component 

14 where the load-dependent component varied as 

15 the square of the load. 

16 Another factor that the Department 

17 recognizes is reactive power. And I think we 

18 have had some discussion about that today. 

19 And the Department is inviting comment on how 

20 best to deal with reactive power. 

21 Let me go to the next slide, which 

22 has a couple of graphs. So this slide has 

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1 some graphs. One is, the first graph on the 

2 left-hand side is, a plot pulling out data 

3 from motor catalogues showing the losses of 

4 the motor as a function of the square of the 

5 motor loading. So that demonstrates that 

6 given that data, the proportionality to 

7 loading squared is pretty good. 

8 The other plot on the right-hand 

9 side is a plot of reactive power versus motor 

10 loading. And the Department is inviting 

11 comments on how to address reactive power and 

12 its implications for losses in the surrounding 

13 electrical circuit, both at the customer level 

14 and at the utility level. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

16 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

17 On this particular figure, with 

18 regards to the reactive power, it's indicated 

19 to be watts. It's actually VARs for the units 

20 of measures for reactive power. 

21 I am a little troubled where you 

22 got your data from, that the combination of 

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1 these two plots indicate that at full load 

2 this particular motor is using or consuming, 

3 as you would say, in losses -- or I assume 

4 this is actual power of about 200 watts, a 

5 little greater than 200 watts. Yet, it's 

6 greater than 500 VARs of reactive power. That 

7 comes out to a power factor of about 34 

8 percent. 

9 That's a very low number. And so 

10 you may wish to check your data or your 

11 derivation in how you came up with these 

12 curves. 

13 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: These are 

14 one-horsepower motors. So the left-hand plot 

15 is only the losses, not losses plus mechanical 

16 load. So on the left-hand plot, if you were 

17 to estimate the entire power going through the 

18 motor, it would be -- I think one horsepower 

19 is approximately 750 watts. So it would be 

20 200 plus 750. So that would be 950 watts, 

21 compared to 500 watts. 

22 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

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1 A follow-up question again is on 

2 chapter 6 on page 6-2, under these curves that 

3 you presented, you have a definition that you 

4 say that you're evaluating efficiency to be 

5 equal to a factor called P of W, which is 

6 identified to be the motor-rated power in 

7 watts times L, which are identified to be a 

8 loading factor, which can be I assume this 

9 loading factor you are using in your plotting. 

10 That amount, which represents 

11 output power at some load, is divided by that 

12 same quantity, PW times L, plus losses. And 

13 losses are identified to be the power of 

14 load-independent losses at full load and 

15 watts. 

16 So if I let L be one, which is 

17 full load, then it's giving me an efficiency 

18 relationship that says that the efficiency at 

19 full load is the output power divided by 

20 output power plus independent, 

21 load-independent, losses. It does not include 

22 those losses which are dependent on load. 

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1 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So I have to 

2 look at the equations that are in front of you 

3 to answer your question. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Can you 

5 suggest offhand what the fix is? 

6 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

7 What is missing from it are the 

8 load-dependent losses, which are characterized 

9 by the result of this square motor loading 

10 curve. So, as is pointed out in the 

11 discussion within chapter 6, there are the 

12 load-dependent losses, which they found that 

13 if you plot losses versus a square motor 

14 loading, you see that those vary by the square 

15 of the load. Those are the stator and rotor 

16 losses and stray load loss in the machine. 

17 Then there are the independent losses 

18 generally, such as the friction and windage 

19 loss. And the core loss somewhat is being 

20 constant. 

21 The only thing that is in this 

22 relationship -- and by only referencing 

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1 independent -- are the core loss and 

2 friction/windage loss. It also needs the 

3 relationship of L2 times the dependent losses 

4 to correct the equation. 

5 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So I have to 

6 step through the equations with you. So the 

7 PW is the rated power of the motor, correct? 

8 The losses is the total losses. Okay? Okay. 

9 So "The load-independent in the 

10 definition of losses" is a typo. Okay. 

11 MR. DAUGHERTY: I guess what I 

12 would be trying to say is in your previous 

13 slide 66, you have your relationship for the 

14 annual energy consumed. And you have that as 

15 PNL, which are your load-independent losses. 

16 Then you have the PLL times L2, which are your 

17 dependent losses that vary by load squared. 

18 Those represent at any load the total losses 

19 at that load. 

20 So over in this new relationship 

21 that's on page 6-2, in place of losses, which 

22 are identified as those that are independent, 

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1 that needs to be replaced by this relationship 

2 that you have on slide 66 or on page 6-1, that 

3 it's PNL plus PLL times L2. And that will 

4 correct the relationship. 

5 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. I agree. 

6 My understanding is that when the Department 

7 performed the preliminary analysis, they used 

8 the correct equations, as you were describing 

9 them. And my understanding is that there may 

10 be errors in the documentation that are not 

11 describing the equations correctly. 

12 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

13 DOE. 

14 So where those are going to be 

15 picked up as refinements or just that they 

16 need to be addressed, mark it. Call attention 

17 to it. Provide what you view as the correct. 

18 And we will examine that, too, and clean up 

19 those areas. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: You 

21 finished describing these, right? 

22 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So 

2 additional comments on costs and losses from 

3 reactive power, these slides here, 65, 66, 67 

4 generally? Yes, Molly? 

5 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Molly 

6 Trombley-McCann. 

7 I asked this question earlier, but 

8 I think maybe this is a more appropriate 

9 section. I can't find the citation in the 

10 document. But the documents do state that the 

11 DOE finds that the motors covered by this 

12 rulemaking constitute a major fraction of the 

13 energy use of all small motors in the country. 

14 I'm wondering, what do you mean by 

15 a "major fraction"? Are we talking about 50 

16 percent, 70 percent? 

17 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The Department 

18 did not calculate that, the precise fraction 

19 in the preliminary analysis. If interested 

20 parties think it is an important piece of 

21 information to have in the analysis, then 

22 please do include that in your comments. 

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1 Yes? 

2 MR. AGAMLOH: Emmanuel Agamloh. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

4 MR. AGAMLOH: The square of motor 

5 loading and motor loading, are they per-unit 

6 quantities? 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. The square 

8 of motor loading, if I understand what you 

9 mean by "per-unit," it is a number that is 

10 zero with no loading and one at full loading. 

11 So at 50 percent loading, the square of motor 

12 loading is .25. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

14 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes? 

15 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

16 To follow up on that, then it's 

17 interesting that your distribution of values, 

18 which appears to be on a linear plot, are 

19 equally spaced, where the square of a half 

20 load is .25 and the square of three-quarter 

21 load, that those spread out a lot more as you 

22 go up in the square, -- 

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1 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Well, the three 

2 -- 

3 MR. DAUGHERTY: -- although what 

4 you are describing on this slide I guess 

5 appears different than what is in the report. 

6 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Well, let me try 

7 to describe. The point furthest to the right 

8 is the square of one. So it's 1.0. 

9 The next point is the square of 

10 .75. So it's between .5 and .6. The third 

11 point from the right is the square of .5. So 

12 it's .25. And the fourth point is the square 

13 of .25. So it's .0625. 

14 Does that seem to conform to the 

15 graph? 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

17 Thank you. 

18 Additional comments? We are going 

19 to keep moving along here. Yes, Jim? 

20 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

21 DOE. 

22 Good comment, Molly, about the 

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1 major part. I can't remember personally where 

2 I saw it. And I would like to know if you 

3 have a citation where we could go back and 

4 review, please. Submit it for a comment, if 

5 you would like, please. Thank you. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So an issue that 

8 the Department would like to highlight is the 

9 issue of how to properly account for reactive 

10 power losses and estimate what fraction of 

11 reactive power actually results in consumptive 

12 losses in the surrounding equipment customer 

13 and distribution system circuits and any 

14 suggestions that interested parties may have 

15 on valuing any differences in reactive power 

16 between motors that are designed for different 

17 efficiency levels. Level two was selected as 

18 the NEMA premium level. 

19 Level one was one percent below. 

20 Level two was set equal to the NEMA premium 

21 level. Level three was one percent above. 

22 Level four was set at 2.5 percent above. And 

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1 level five was selected as the max. tech. 

2 level. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

4 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

5 I would just suggest that if this 

6 were your selection of values, that you go 

7 back and revisit the table on slide 3 of the 

8 extra handout that the value of CSL 1 is given 

9 as 84.0 percent. That's more than one percent 

10 below the NEMA premium value. 

11 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. Thank you. 

12 We will examine that inconsistency. 

13 So next is the flow diagram that 

14 describes -- 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger wants 

16 to follow on. Go ahead, Roger? 

17 MR. DAUGHERTY: It was just 

18 pointed out to me by Rob that it may be 

19 important here to make a point that when you 

20 say that the efficiency is one percent below 

21 NEMA premium, you are actually referring to 

22 one percentage point because that one 

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1 percentage point below NEMA premium represents 

2 ten percent change of losses in the machine. 

3 So we like to talk in terms of percentage 

4 points if you're going to use actual 

5 percentage values. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Thank you for 

8 that. 

9 So the flow diagram describes the 

10 flow of information in the life-cycle cost 

11 calculation. Life-cycle costs starts with the 

12 baseline manufacturer cost, the standard level 

13 manufacturer cost, manufacturer markups, 

14 retail and distribution markup, sales tax, 

15 combine those into an equipment price. 

16 Then added to that equipment price 

17 is an installation cost, which in the 

18 preliminary analysis, the Department assumed 

19 that the installation cost is the labor 

20 component, did not vary with rating or size of 

21 the motor. 

22 That gives you a total installed 

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1 cost. And then that total installed cost is 

2 compared with the annual operating expenses. 

3 The annual operating expenses result from the 

4 energy consumption and energy prices, which 

5 gives the annual energy expense and any repair 

6 and maintenance costs that then flow into an 

7 annual operating expense. 

8 The Department again assumed that 

9 repair and maintenance costs did not vary with 

10 efficiency levels. Again, this is a 

11 preliminary analysis. And stakeholders should 

12 feel free at providing any additional 

13 information to the Department that they think 

14 would be useful. 

15 The annual operating expenses then 

16 are combined with inputs regarding lifetime, 

17 discount rate, and any trends in energy 

18 prices, to come up with a lifetime operating 

19 expense. This is the discounted present 

20 value. And that is combined with the total 

21 installed cost to come up with the life-cycle 

22 cost of the equipment. 

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1 Are there any questions or 

2 clarifications about this flow? 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

4 MR. BOTELER: This is Rob Boteler. 

5 So it's at this point where we as 

6 the stakeholders will put in our 

7 recommendations or estimates, I guess, on the 

8 impact on what we talked about as far as the 

9 stack length of the example, went up 200 

10 percent. So we're doubling the length of the 

11 motor or nearly. And we're going to then try 

12 and quantify that as to what the impact would 

13 be on the OEM, the user, and the contractor so 

14 that can be added to the life-cycle cost 

15 analysis. 

16 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. And a 

17 particularly useful way of organizing the 

18 input would be to take the population of 

19 consumers or end users and say I have one 

20 segment which is this fraction. I have 

21 another segment which is this other fraction. 

22 And I have another segment which is a third 

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1 fraction. And these different segments or 

2 categories of consumers then will have 

3 different types of impacts from these changes. 

4 Another component will discuss in 

5 the NOPR analyses that there is a life-cycle 

6 subgroup analysis that the Department performs 

7 for its rulemakings. And in the subgroup 

8 analysis, the Department can examine the 

9 peculiar or particular impacts on any subset 

10 of users of the equipment. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, John? 

12 MR. ANDRLE: I just had a comment. 

13 And it basically goes back to kind of the 

14 beginning, where we talked about the baseline 

15 manufacturing cost, also some of the 

16 assumptions that were placed in getting to 

17 these various levels of efficiency. 

18 Also just a comment that depending 

19 on what level of efficiency, there could be 

20 significant additional tooling costs, which 

21 you did mention we need to ensure we have in 

22 our manufacturing impact analysis. But 

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1 because depreciation is part of a motor cost, 

2 that portion of the motor cost may become 

3 significant if these levels were at a point 

4 where the tooling costs became significant. 

5 So it's a comment to understand 

6 that some of these manufacturing costs may be 

7 not valid because that wasn't considered in 

8 the preliminary analysis. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

10 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So if I may 

11 reflect some of my understanding, the comment 

12 is that a portion of the retooling costs would 

13 get passed on to the consumers as an increase 

14 in product price. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: John? 

16 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

17 Yes, that's correct. I mean, 

18 that's how normally it's done. The tooling is 

19 depreciated over the life of the production. 

20 So we could have a significant impact, tooling 

21 impact, which would start to be a depreciated 

22 annealing on the production of that product. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, Dale? 

2 MR. BASSO: Dale Basso, WEG. 

3 One of the other things we haven't 

4 really mentioned at this point, we mentioned 

5 that it could cause some redesign for the 

6 equipment manufacturers to get into their 

7 equipment. 

8 But the other area that often 

9 comes up with small motors like this is that 

10 they get them certified by a third party or 

11 they get their equipment certified by a third 

12 party with our motor in it. It could happen 

13 either way. 

14 And it's specific to that part 

15 number motor of that particular customer. It 

16 still could be a general purpose motor. It 

17 could still be a motor off the shelf for us. 

18 But now that customer is tied to 

19 if we ever make a change to that motor, they 

20 have to go get that motor recertified in their 

21 equipment. And so there is a certification 

22 expense that goes with that when that's a 

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1 change. 

2 It is not an uncommon occurrence 

3 in fractional horsepower motors. So that is 

4 something else we will try and quantify for 

5 you. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Got you. 

7 Thank you. 

8 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Just a question 

9 for clarification. That certification cost is 

10 borne by the OEM? 

11 MR. BASSO: Correct. 

12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Jim Raba? 

13 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

14 DOE. 

15 John or Dale, if you have data, 

16 your samples of different sizes or types of 

17 the motors, could you provide some examples, 

18 real-world, that you could share, either for 

19 tooling and retooling or the cost of, say, 

20 listing or certifying the motor? 

21 We're not saying for safety now. 

22 We're saying for efficiency if that's where 

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1 we're going. That's my point there. I mean, 

2 is this something we should factor in? And to 

3 what degree? Is there any data you could 

4 provide? 

5 I mean, it's something we should 

6 consider, nonetheless. That's a good point 

7 you bring up. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

9 follow-on, Dale. 

10 MR. BASSO: Just to clarify. It's 

11 not an issue of certification for the 

12 efficiency. It actually is typically a safety 

13 certification, but it's for that piece of 

14 equipment being certified and certified with a 

15 particular part number motor in it. And so if 

16 anything changes to that motor, it has to go 

17 through the recertification process. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And the 

19 additional cost? 

20 MR. BASSO: Yes. 

21 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: That's a 

22 good point. I agree. I mean, no question 

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1 there. It's got to be that part, that number, 

2 that number, that motor, and so on. So, 

3 again, factored in, again, I think we 

4 understand that this is all part of the I 

5 would say markup process, but it's all part of 

6 the costing-out process for sure. 

7 If there is any other segment 

8 along with that that you believe would have 

9 some impact on efficiency or the cost of 

10 incrementally increasing efficiency, add that, 

11 too, if you would. But, again, the data would 

12 be very helpful. Thank you very much. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Charlie, 

14 have a comment? 

15 MR. STEPHENS: No. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. Yes, 

17 Rob? 

18 MR. BOTELER: One other that just 

19 comes to mind when Dale made such comment is 

20 the vast majority of these products have 

21 thermal protection. So when we go through our 

22 process of redesign and retesting, there is 

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1 another incremental test that we would have to 

2 do on all of these thermal testing to make 

3 sure we had the right protectors on these. So 

4 the additional cost will include it. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

6 Thanks. 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So another issue 

8 I want to highlight as we start into the 

9 life-cycle cost analysis or review of the 

10 preliminary analysis is that in the 

11 preliminary analysis, the Department has one 

12 baseline efficiency, but any comments that 

13 interested parties may have on either the 

14 baseline efficiency value that the Department 

15 has or the distribution of efficiencies that 

16 it should consider in the market, that would 

17 be useful. 

18 So electricity prices. In the 

19 preliminary analysis, the Department considers 

20 that the electricity prices relevant for these 

21 motors are likely to be close to the average 

22 electricity prices. The Department, 

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1 therefore, used a distribution of electricity 

2 prices derived from EIA form 861, which is the 

3 reporting form for utilities, where they 

4 report revenues and volume of sales for three 

5 classes of customers: industrial, commercial, 

6 and residential. 

7 And then the Department did 

8 electricity price projections based on the 

9 Energy Information Administration's annual 

10 energy outlook 2008 reference case, and has 

11 scenarios for high growth and low growth cases 

12 of the EIA forecast. which has slightly 

13 different projections for future electricity 

14 price trends. 

15 Any comments, questions? Yes? 

16 MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo. 

17 Just quickly, something we raised 

18 consistently is that the AEO 2008 does not 

19 include price impacts of a carbon cap. And we 

20 encourage the Department to look to estimates 

21 of future electricity prices. It incorporates 

22 estimates of the impact of the carbon cap. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

2 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: I think a 

3 clarifying question I would like to ask is in 

4 recent rulemakings, the Department provided 

5 monetized estimates of the value of carbon 

6 emissions reductions. And would you like to 

7 see both estimates of emissions reductions and 

8 modified electricity price or what is the 

9 specific request? 

10 MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo. 

11 I'm not trying to get the 

12 Department to double count anything. And that 

13 is a tricky issue. I think, at minimum, you 

14 have to consider the impact of a carbon cap on 

15 electricity prices. 

16 At that point if you're 

17 considering that, I think the other economic 

18 benefit of an increase in efficiency and a 

19 reduction in energy use is the incremental 

20 change in the price of allowances under the 

21 carbon cap. 

22 If you consider those two things, 

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1 I think you have considered everything that 

2 you consider. If you're not going to assume 

3 for the sake of your projection of electricity 

4 pries a cap on carbon, I think that's when you 

5 have to get into analyzing the social cost of 

6 carbon dioxide emissions and calculating those 

7 values, which is something the Department has 

8 done to some extent in past rulemakings. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Charlie? 

10 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens, 

11 Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. 

12 I think dealing with the purpose 

13 of the carbon cap or carbon cap and trade 

14 system is to internalize those costs into the 

15 cost of energy. I think it's appropriate to 

16 put it in the cost of energy ultimately. 

17 I know the West Coast states have 

18 pretty much done this already. They've 

19 already got their own estimates of exactly--

20 based on the mix of generation out there--what 

21 the impact will be on electricity prices, for 

22 instance, out there at various levels of 

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1 carbon tax and carbon cap. 

2 And so it's being done in a lot of 

3 places. I don't think it's that hard to do. 

4 And I think it's appropriate. 

5 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE. 

6 Just sort of as a follow-up to 

7 those two comments, are there any particular 

8 studies or sets of data that you would 

9 recommend that the agency take a look at? 

10 MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo. 

11 Well, first off, there was an 

12 analysis done of the Lieberman-Warner bill, 

13 which did some projections of the impact of 

14 that legislation on electricity prices out to, 

15 I think, like 2030. 

16 Also, even in the absence of any 

17 nationwide legislation, there are regional 

18 caps on emissions that, for example, in the 

19 Northeast, there is currently a market for 

20 emissions. They are priced in the marketplace 

21 and incorporated into future values, will be 

22 incorporated into future values of 

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1 electricity. 

2 However, those, to my knowledge, 

3 are not reflected in AEO 2008. So if there 

4 will be a new version of that out, which will 

5 be used in the rulemaking and would reflect 

6 the RGGI impacts. That would address part of 

7 the concern. 

8 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE. 

9 Just to sort of follow up again. 

10 So are there any studies that actually take 

11 those particular factors into account that we 

12 could look at? 

13 MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo. 

14 There was some analysis done of 

15 the impacts of RGGI when it was being debated. 

16 And I can make sure those get to the 

17 Department. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Charlie, do 

19 you have specific ones to look at? 

20 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

21 There are some out there. They're 

22 often done state by state or region. The RGGI 

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1 ones were regional analysis. And those are 

2 available. In fact, I download them from 

3 online. 

4 It's not that hard to get a hold 

5 of them. The problem is that it isn't 

6 trivial. There are two ways to look at how 

7 this plays out. 

8 There was a recent study that was 

9 published in the last month and a half or so 

10 that is a little bit unrealistic and I think 

11 overestimated the cost of the carbon cap and a 

12 carbon tax because of the way it dealt with 

13 coal-fired power plants and how they were 

14 phased out of the system. It didn't look at 

15 the phaseout. It looked at alternatives for 

16 new power plants only. That's probably not 

17 the way to look at this. 

18 So it is a little bit tricky. And 

19 you have just got to be sure that it's 

20 consistent. As you pick up one study and 

21 another, you have to make sure they're all 

22 consistently looking at the methodology for 

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1 how you price carbon and its impacts in power 

2 prices. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Michael? 

4 Yes, please, Gloria? 

5 MS. PUMPUNI: Gloria Pumpuni from 

6 AHRI. 

7 I guess one comment I have is 

8 there seems to be a lot of uncertainty about 

9 this. And that is the whole point, that there 

10 is so much speculation as to what this -- if 

11 there is going to be a trading system or a cap 

12 program, what it is going to be. 

13 And I would caution DOE, including 

14 these analyses to make sure it's based on very 

15 solid evidence because there's a lot of 

16 confusion in the marketplace. 

17 And another point is as we go 

18 forward and try to monetize carbon emissions, 

19 we have to really look at how this value is 

20 allocated, you know, the benefits are 

21 allocated to the consumer, to the 

22 manufacturer, or who gets the monetary 

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1 benefit. And that I think would have a huge 

2 impact on the life-cycle cost analysis. 

3 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Thank you very 

4 much for the input and the clarification. We 

5 will have another chance to discuss this in 

6 the other NOPR analysis section. 

7 So other inputs into the 

8 life-cycle cost, DOE assumed a $252.90 

9 installation cost, again based on RS Means. 

10 Installation costs were assumed to not vary 

11 with equipment price for efficiency level 

12 except for the contractor markup and in this 

13 preliminary analysis. 

14 Discount rates were derived from 

15 estimates of the cost of capital of companies 

16 for commercial and industrial sectors. We 

17 used a weighted cost of capital model for 

18 doing that. 

19 Cost of capital and interest rates 

20 varies over time. We followed the methods of 

21 the Federal Reserve in taking a 40-year 

22 average of the cost of capital equation 

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1 parameters and the weighted average value. 

2 Real cost of capital was 5.92 percent for 

3 agricultural and industrial owners and 5.89 

4 percent for commercial. 

5 Any comments on these inputs? 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Why don't 

7 you finish with the other input? 

8 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Other inputs? 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 

10 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So for the 

11 equipment lifetime, the Department followed 

12 the same approach that it used in the 

13 determination analysis using an average of 

14 nine years for polyphase motors and seven 

15 years for capacitor-start motors based on a 

16 literature survey and industry input obtained 

17 during the determination analysis. And we 

18 used a range of lifetimes to characterize the 

19 variability. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So let's 

21 see if there are any comments on these other 

22 inputs listed on 76 and 77. How does this 

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1 track with manufacturers' experience? Rob? 

2 MR. BOTELER: Well, it's Rob 

3 Boteler. 

4 Explain to me the $252.90 

5 installation cost. I'm not exactly sure what 

6 you mean. 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: That's an adder. 

8 Because in the preliminary analysis it's not 

9 varying with the efficiency or characteristics 

10 of the motor, it doesn't have an impact on the 

11 incremental consumer economics. 

12 Now, when the Department examined 

13 the cost estimates in RS Means, there wasn't a 

14 variation in the installation labor for small 

15 electric motors because most of the labor 

16 apparently was going into other aspects of the 

17 installation. 

18 In RS Means, when you go to the 

19 medium motors, the installation cost does vary 

20 with motor size, but the variations stop at 

21 size levels above those being considered in 

22 this analysis. 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

2 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Onward. So when 

3 the Department runs through the analysis, it 

4 gets a distribution of results, some motors 

5 having a net life-cycle cost, others having a 

6 net savings. 

7 In this particular case, with 

8 polyphase one-horsepower motor, candidate 

9 standard level 2, 85.5 percent, the mean 

10 life-cycle cost savings is $29. 

11 On the next slide, this 

12 illustrates the variation of life-cycle cost 

13 with efficiency given the various inputs that 

14 have been described to you today. 

15 So you'll notice how the 

16 life-cycle cost curves turn sharply up as you 

17 approach the maximum technologically feasible 

18 level. And they are sort of broad, sloping 

19 downward, and then maybe flat or turning up 

20 slightly towards the max. tech. level. 

21 So there's a big, there's a broad 

22 flat area of the life-cycle cost. And then 

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1 these curves show a hard constraint at the 

2 highest levels. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

4 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

5 Perhaps you could just explain in 

6 layman's terms the difference between 

7 life-cycle cost in slide 79, what is meant by 

8 life-cycle cost savings, which is in 78. How 

9 do you get a life-cycle cost savings? 

10 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Versus 

11 life-cycle savings? It is relative to the 

12 baseline. So the difference between the 

13 life-cycle cost of the baseline unit and the 

14 life-cycle cost of the standard unit is the 

15 life-cycle cost savings. 

16 So because for some levels the 

17 operating cost, the present value of the 

18 operating cost, provides a savings due to 

19 decreased energy consumption, the life-cycle 

20 cost of some of the more efficient motors is 

21 lower because the savings in energy costs when 

22 discounted to the present is less than the 

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1 increase in cost due to the higher efficiency. 

2 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

3 I guess the question was trying to 

4 find where your base was at. 

5 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The base is the 

6 baseline. Yes. So in this graph, it's the 

7 far left dot. The farthest left dot is the 

8 baseline. 

9 MR. DAUGHERTY: The question is, 

10 what design is that? Were all of these at the 

11 same efficiency level? Is that what you are 

12 saying? What is your reference point? 

13 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: I will have to 

14 refer to the engineering folks, who did the 

15 design analysis for the baseline units. 

16 MR. NARDOTTI: Matthew Nardotti. 

17 The left-most design is the baseline unit that 

18 we examined in the engineering analysis. So 

19 the very first model, the very first point in 

20 the efficiency curves that we have is the 

21 baseline, is again the left-most point. 

22 That's the design. 

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1 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So in the 

2 engineering analysis, they started with a 

3 baseline efficiency. In the preliminary 

4 analysis, the Department did a very slight 

5 adjustment to make it match the market data we 

6 had. But it was the baseline design as 

7 assumed in the engineering analysis. 

8 Other questions, comments? 

9 (No response.) 

10 LIFE-CYCLE COST AND PAYBACK PERIOD ANALYSIS 

11 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Okay. For the 

12 payback period, this graph illustrates the 

13 distribution of payback periods resulting from 

14 this analysis. In this particular case, 

15 standard level 3 for a CSIR 0.5-horsepower 

16 motor, the mean value is approximately 6 

17 years. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

19 please, Rob? 

20 MR. BOTELER: And when you 

21 determined that mean value for six years, did 

22 you include that installation cost of $252? 

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1 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: It's the payback 

2 period on the incremental costs. So the 

3 installation cost in the preliminary analysis 

4 did not vary with the efficiency level. 

5 MR. BOTELER: So it is included in 

6 the base case and in the -- 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. So the 

8 difference is zero. 

9 MR. BOTELER: Zero. Okay. 

10 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: And then in 

11 graphical form is a function of the motor 

12 efficiency. This is illustrated in the 

13 current slide, slide 81. 

14 And, again, you can see the effect 

15 of the sharp increase in engineering and 

16 manufacturing costs as you approach the 

17 maximum technologically feasible level. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay? Yes, 

19 please? 

20 MR. BARTH: Jeff Barth, A. O. 

21 Smith. 

22 It appears to me that on these 

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1 charts, you're added in some confusion by 

2 going from one design to another. In one case 

3 you do a three-phase single or one-horsepower 

4 motor. And you're doing a payback analysis 

5 cost-wise. And in the next one, you're doing 

6 a three-quarter-horse or a half-horsepower 

7 CSIR motor and doing the payback in time on 

8 that. 

9 And you're not comparing apples to 

10 apples. You're more comparing apples to 

11 oranges and adding in some confusion. Stick 

12 to one model. If you're going to compare the 

13 payback cost on one model, do the payback in 

14 years on the other. 

15 Personally I find that a little 

16 confusing because you're saying that the 

17 payback is 6 years on the one model, but if 

18 you go back to the one-horsepower 3-phase 

19 motor and the way I understand it, the payback 

20 on that appears to be about 17 years, not 6 

21 years. Is that a correct statement? 

22 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: In the current 

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1 plot, the payback time, the average payback 

2 time, for CSL 3 for the polyphase motor is 

3 shown as approximately 17 years on the ground. 

4 And that is right. 

5 So during the preliminary analysis 

6 stage, the Department is vetting to a large 

7 extent the methodologies, rather than the 

8 results, with the understanding that between 

9 the preliminary stage and the notice of 

10 proposed rulemaking, there will be revisions 

11 to the analysis. 

12 So we have covered two -- yes? 

13 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle. 

14 Would you go back to that chart 

15 one more time and explain? You've got 

16 multiple points. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: This is 81 

18 you're looking at? 

19 MR. ANDRLE: Yes, chart 81. 

20 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes? 

22 MR. ANDRLE: You've got multiple 

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1 points. 

2 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The first one, 

3 the first point, on the left for each curve is 

4 the CSL 1. The second one is CSL 2. The 

5 third one is CSL 3. And the fourth one is CSL 

6 4. 

7 MR. ANDRLE: Okay. This is John 

8 Andrle again. But, then, one chart back we 

9 were talking about the data point being the 

10 baseline motor, not the CSL 1. So how do we 

11 know which chart has which starting point, 

12 then? 

13 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: We can add 

14 labels for the version of the presentation 

15 that goes on the Web to clarify. The 

16 Department welcomes comments on clarifying the 

17 presentation. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: How we 

19 clarify these. Jeff? 

20 MR. BARTH: I'm thinking about 

21 this. I personally think that maybe you 

22 should separate the charts out so that you 

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1 don't have three different types of data on 

2 the same chart? Payback in cost and payback 

3 in years for one design, another design, 

4 another design. 

5 So you keep them separate, and you 

6 take out some of that confusion. 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Thank you very 

8 much for that. 

9 We have gone through two sections. 

10 How are we doing, Doug? Time for a break or 

11 -- 

12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Let me see. 

13 Keep going? 

14 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Keep going? 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Is that 

16 okay with everybody? 

17 NATIONAL IMPACT ANALYSIS 

18 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Okay. National 

19 impact analysis covers both the shipments 

20 analysis and the national impact analysis. So 

21 I will discuss them both now. 

22 Purpose, shipments analysis is to 

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1 estimate small electric motor equipment 

2 shipments over time. National impact analysis 

3 has the purpose of estimating the national 

4 energy savings from more efficient small 

5 electric motor equipment at different 

6 efficiency levels. And it has the purpose of 

7 estimating the national economic impact in net 

8 present value terms of the increased 

9 efficiency equipment. 

10 National impact analysis 

11 calculation takes input from both the 

12 life-cycle cost analysis, where it gets the 

13 average values for distribution of consumer 

14 economics and input from the shipments model. 

15 National energy savings are 

16 calculated for the period 2015 through 2045. 

17 The NPV, the national net present value, is 

18 calculated from the period 2015 to 2055, where 

19 the shipments go until 2045. 

20 So the reason for the extended 

21 calculation period is that you will have 

22 shipments in 2045, but it will take time for 

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1 that equipment to cycle out of the stock. And 

2 so for consistent calculation, we include 

3 operating expenses from the equipment that is 

4 shipped in 2045 and before. 

5 So one issue that comes up in this 

6 analysis is that an increase in installed cost 

7 of small electric motors could reduce 

8 shipments due to migration to uncovered 

9 products. In the preliminary analysis, the 

10 Department does not include an elasticity only 

11 as a sensitivity, does not include this effect 

12 of a potential reduction in shipments due to 

13 increased cost. 

14 The Department welcomes any 

15 comments and data that would allow it to model 

16 such effects if they exist. 

17 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

18 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler. 

19 I think when we had this 

20 discussion back -- I don't know -- a year ago. 

21 There was some concern that lower efficient 

22 shaded-pole product, things like that, may be 

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1 an alternative to moving to the premium 

2 product. 

3 Actually, as we look at it now, 

4 the manufacturer didn't think that was going 

5 to happen, but that was a question. But I 

6 think if we looked at it now, we would tell 

7 you that the induction motor will continue to 

8 lose ground due to the more efficient, 

9 permanent magnet, switch reluctance, and 

10 variable speed applications. 

11 So I think that we would want you 

12 to be conservative in your growth numbers 

13 going forward to -- what was it? -- 2045. 

14 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. 

15 MR. BOTELER: Because this product 

16 is going to be replaced, but it is going to be 

17 replaced by a much more efficient product in 

18 those three categories: variable speed, 

19 permanent magnet, and switch reluctance. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

21 Thank you. 

22 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. In the 

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1 preliminary analysis, the shipment projection 

2 is continued growth of shipments. So that's a 

3 very useful comment. 

4 Another element of looking at 

5 shipments -- this also is used in the 

6 life-cycle cost analysis -- is how shipments 

7 break out to different types of applications. 

8 Since the Department didn't get additional 

9 detail between the determination analysis and 

10 the preliminary analysis, this breakout of the 

11 portion of shipments to different applications 

12 is essentially the estimates coming from the 

13 determination analysis. So yes. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

15 please? 

16 MR. BOTELER: Yes. I have a few 

17 comments on this one. It's Rob Boteler. 

18 Conveyors that would fall into 

19 this category, it's unlikely that the conveyor 

20 would be anything other than a C-face 

21 connection. It would not be a T-frame 

22 connection. 

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1 Farm machinery, speaking as a 

2 manufacturer who sells blower motors for 

3 farms, for hog farms and chicken farms, we 

4 wouldn't be using open motors. They wouldn't 

5 last because they would plug up immediately. 

6 And the other application is 

7 really screw conveyors for feed delivery to 

8 farms. And those would never be open motors. 

9 They wouldn't survive. 

10 Item number 6 is food machinery. 

11 In the food and beverage area, we would never 

12 use an open motor. We would only use an 

13 enclosed motor, more than likely a wash-down 

14 stainless steel definite purpose motor. 

15 I think in general industry -- 

16 what I would do is change that one maybe to 

17 medical because in the medical area, there are 

18 some applications in hospitals where there are 

19 blood pumps and oxygen generators and things 

20 like that that perhaps could use this product. 

21 Woodworking is another area. It 

22 would be very rare that we would put an open 

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1 motor into any kind of a dusty severe 

2 environment because of its life expectancy. 

3 We would have to change your life expectancy 

4 from seven years to about seven days. 

5 I would say that the area that you 

6 would add those items that I eliminated back 

7 into would be in small compressors. And I 

8 think that the difference that this would make 

9 in your calculations would then become in the 

10 -- and maybe that is coming up, but in the 

11 annual hours of operation when we look at 

12 compressors, particularly small compressors in 

13 residential and gas stations, small light 

14 commercial, the hours of application per year 

15 are very, very small, very low. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

17 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Thank you. The 

18 Department would welcome any comments, data, 

19 and estimates of what the hours of operation 

20 for a new category would be. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

22 please, Dale? 

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1 MR. BASSO: Yes. Dale Basso, WEG. 

2 Kind of to Rob's point, I think 

3 what we ought to do is just come up with the 

4 categories that really exist because I would 

5 agree with Rob. Most of them don't exist for 

6 open motors. Compressors, 

7 heating/ventilation, some general industry, 

8 and pumps and fans might be the only ones that 

9 actually qualify for the kind of products 

10 we're talking about. 

11 And so this mixture was really 

12 based off of all fractional motors, as opposed 

13 to the specific ones that are being discussed. 

14 So we really narrow the categories way down. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Charlie? 

16 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens, 

17 Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. 

18 In your table that you've got in 

19 chapter 2, it's table 2.7.1. You've got some 

20 strange categories there. I'm trying to 

21 understand what residential packaging 

22 machinery looks like. But you've got some 

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1 percentages of motors in there. 

2 I can't envision a piece of 

3 residential packaging machinery or machine 

4 tools in the residential setting. So I'm 

5 thinking there are some errors in there. 

6 And under pumps and pumping, we 

7 have pool pumps in here somewhere in the 

8 residential. No? Special purpose motors. 

9 They're the right type, but they're built with 

10 special components. 

11 MR. BOTELER: This is Rob Boteler. 

12 The pool pump motors are flange 

13 motors. They're not general purpose. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

15 please, Tom? 

16 MR. HINK: Tom Hink, Regal-Beloit. 

17 I just want to make one comment, 

18 too, that I think in our most recent request 

19 to supply the shipment by application, we were 

20 going to put zeroes in number two for 

21 commercial industrial air conditioning. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Would you 

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1 say again where you are? 

2 MR. HINK: Slide 87. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

4 MR. HINK: Number 2, we are 

5 talking about commercial/industrial heating 

6 and ventilating. I thought we were going to 

7 make those as zeroes for the purposes of this 

8 chart. 

9 Also, I just want to make the 

10 distinction that when we were asked to supply 

11 sales volume of all the general purpose open 

12 motors, they could include motors that we 

13 would sell into distribution channels that 

14 could eventually be into air conditioning 

15 applications. 

16 And so it would be misleading if 

17 you try and use all of these percentages and 

18 apply them back to the sales numbers that we 

19 had supplied in the past because some of the 

20 sales numbers may be too high because they may 

21 actually include air conditioning motors that 

22 are covered by some other standard. 

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1 I'm just saying if you're looking 

2 at impact in total savings and so on, you have 

3 to take that into account as well. 

4 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

5 DOE. 

6 Can you break that out for us? 

7 MR. HINK: We'll try. 

8 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Thank 

9 you. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Any other 

11 of these? I guess, Dale, your last comment 

12 was maybe you all should just bring back a 

13 chart with the applications that you think are 

14 most relevant that are most accurate and send 

15 that, rather than spending a lot more time 

16 with it here. 

17 I think we'll just do it that way. 

18 Okay. So that is on your to do list. 

19 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Okay. The next 

20 slide shows the distribution of sales by 

21 different sizes and number of poles for 

22 polyphase motors. 

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1 Again, this is adjusted from data 

2 from year 2000 data, that was obtained for the 

3 determination analysis and then projected 

4 forward using the growth factor. And similar 

5 tables are available in the TSD for this 

6 single-phase motor. Okay? 

7 So this plot on slide 89 shows the 

8 graph of the stock of motors which is affected 

9 by a standard. You see at the front of the 

10 plot a fairly steep ramp-up. That represents 

11 the change-out of the existing motors with the 

12 new regulated motors. 

13 Then you hit a long plateau, which 

14 increases slightly due to the assumption of a 

15 gradual sales increase in the preliminary 

16 analysis, which people commented on just a 

17 little while ago. 

18 Then the end of the analysis 

19 period for shipments is 2045. So the ramp at 

20 the end of the graph is the change-out of 

21 those motors as the motors sold on 2045 and 

22 before get replaced by the post-2045 motors. 

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1 This next slide, slide 90, 

2 illustrates the trade-off between the 

3 increased equipment cost and the operating 

4 cost savings. Again, in the preliminary 

5 analysis, we're just illustrating one example 

6 case. 

7 We expect, the Department expects, 

8 the details of the calculation will change 

9 between the preliminary analysis and the 

10 notice of proposed rulemaking. 

11 So you see that the effect of the 

12 increase of equipment price is fairly steady. 

13 The operating cost, the annual operating cost 

14 savings, ramped up, sort of increased 

15 gradually. And then there were some leftover 

16 savings after 2045. 

17 And the Department takes the 

18 present value of the net savings to calculate 

19 the net present value of the savings at the 

20 national level. 

21 So this again is a summary, 

22 putting perhaps a little too much information 

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1 on one slide, illustrating how for the 

2 different candidate standard levels how the 

3 energy savings increases more or less linearly 

4 with the increasing points of efficiency and 

5 the relative magnitude of the savings between 

6 capacitor-start induction-run motors, 

7 polyphase motors, and capacitor-start 

8 capacitor-run. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

10 MR. BOTELER: Robert, what annual 

11 hours of operation were used for this? 

12 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The average 

13 annual hours of operation were a little over 

14 2,500. 

15 MR. BOTELER: Okay. 

16 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: And any 

17 additional data on what the annual hours of 

18 operation are would be appreciated. 

19 So in terms of net present value 

20 of the impact on the country, these are the 

21 plots again, plotting all three on the same 

22 graph. You see the reflection of what we saw 

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1 in the life cycle cost analysis, where for CSL 

2 1 and CSL 2 and sometimes CSL 3, there is a 

3 sort of level impact of the economics. 

4 And then, as the engineering cost 

5 curve starts turning up steeply, then the net 

6 benefit of the economics drops steeply. 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: John? 

8 MR. ANDRLE: I just have another 

9 comment about the use on these charts. 

10 Instead of using the CSL levels, this chart, 

11 shouldn't the charts being used back here on 

12 some of the payback, shouldn't that have been 

13 based back to the baseline motor because, I 

14 mean, that is the motor that -- isn't that the 

15 motor that -- 

16 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Well, the chart 

17 is illustrating the net economic impacts of 

18 the standard. So back at the baseline motor, 

19 the net impacts will be zero. And in this 

20 analysis, the Department didn't interpolate 

21 between baseline and CSL 1. 

22 If interested parties want more 

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1 information on how those impacts are seen for 

2 a greater range of efficiencies, then the 

3 Department would appreciate comments to that 

4 effect. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, John? 

6 MR. ANDRLE: John Andrle again. 

7 Well, in the other document that 

8 -- is there enough detail that we can 

9 reconstruct these charts ourselves? I mean, 

10 is it enough -- 

11 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. Yes. 

12 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: In the TSD? 

13 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Each point on 

14 the chart should be both in chapter -- well, I 

15 can't remember if it's in the executive 

16 summary or chapter 2 -- and in the topic 

17 chapter of the TSD. In this case the national 

18 impact analysis chapter, which is chapter 10. 

19 MR. HOPKINS: Asa Hopkins, 

20 Lawrence Berkeley Lab. 

21 Also, the draft preliminary life 

22 cycle cost, Excel spreadsheets, and 

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1 instructions for using them are also 

2 available. So you can download the same Excel 

3 spreadsheets that we have. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And they 

5 find those where? 

6 MR. HOPKINS: Those are linked off 

7 of the announcement Web page for this public 

8 meeting, the same DOE Web page. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

10 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: And the 

11 Department is committed to assisting any 

12 interested parties in being able to understand 

13 and use the analyses. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, Tim? 

15 MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo, 

16 Earthjustice. 

17 A question on the national 

18 analysis. The Department selected one type of 

19 capacitor-start, one CSIR, one CSCR, and one 

20 polyphase motor for its analysis. 

21 So the national impact analysis, 

22 when you say, for example, that the CSIRs 

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1 would save something like 2.4 quads, you're 

2 talking about just for that one motor type 

3 that was analyzed. They're all CSIR. 

4 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The results from 

5 the example motor were scaled up to represent 

6 the whole population of motors. 

7 MR. BALLO: Thank you. 

8 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So this is the 

9 Department's estimate on regulating the whole 

10 population. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: And the 

12 population of all motors? 

13 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: All motors 

14 within that motor category. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. Tim? 

16 MR. BALLO: Sorry. Just to 

17 clarify, that's all CSIR motors -- 

18 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. 

19 MR. BALLO: -- or all CSIR motors 

20 at a half a horsepower? 

21 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: No. All CSIR 

22 motors. 

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1 MR. BALLO: Okay. Thank you. 

2 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: So comment on 

3 clarifying the labels is appreciated? 

4 (No response.) 

5 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: This is the same 

6 calculation calculated with a real discount 

7 rate of seven percent, rather than three 

8 percent. The previous calculation was using 

9 the three percent real discount rate. 

10 What you see is that the overall 

11 scale of the net present value of impacts has 

12 changed quite a bit, but the relative, you 

13 know, whether it's plus or minus, the 

14 intercept with zero is pretty similar between 

15 the two. And that's because the lifetime of 

16 the motors is seven and nine years on average, 

17 which is relatively short compared to the 

18 payback time when you're using either a three 

19 percent or a seven percent discount rate. 

20 And their NIA. I think I now -- 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 

22 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Any other -- 

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1 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Roger? 

2 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

3 This chart on slide 92, am I 

4 hearing that those things that are plotted 

5 there are the ones that are off of the Excel 

6 spreadsheet that was included at the Web site? 

7 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: They are in the 

8 NIA Excel spreadsheet. 

9 MR. DAUGHERTY: And how do you 

10 make a determination that if the net present 

11 value went negative but up above you've got 

12 national energy savings that are obviously 

13 positive in energy, which do you choose as 

14 being a determination that that particular 

15 efficiency should go forward? 

16 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: At this stage of 

17 the rulemaking, the Department presents the 

18 preliminary analysis. A proposed rule comes 

19 at the notice of proposed rulemaking stage. 

20 And it's at that time that the Department 

21 provides a proposal for the efficiency level 

22 and a proposed rationale for the efficiency 

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1 level. 

2 So at this stage of the rulemaking 

3 I can't say how the Department will choose at 

4 the next stage. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Jim Raba? 

6 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba. 

7 If you would like to address that 

8 in further comments as to, anybody, their 

9 views upon these graphs about the net present 

10 value discount rates and so forth and these 

11 savings, certainly we would entertain those to 

12 be submitted to us for further review and 

13 comment. 

14 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: As we go to the 

15 notice to proposed rulemaking. 

16 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: So right 

17 now we're presenting -- 

18 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The 

19 methodologies. 

20 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: -- the 

21 methodologies, the overall preliminaries. And 

22 this is where the information and the comments 

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1 gathered are very helpful to us. So these are 

2 preliminaries for now. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So if there 

4 was a logic for the decision-making rules, 

5 then that would be helpful? 

6 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Well, Jim 

7 Raba again. 

8 I say that. Again, one of our 

9 purposes was to provide to you, everybody, the 

10 thought processes, the methodologies, the data 

11 inputs we have been working with and would 

12 encourage anything better, data, as far as 

13 accurate and refinements. That would be 

14 appreciated. 

15 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob, do you 

16 have a comment? 

17 MR. BOTELER: I think the look on 

18 our faces was simply that we were expecting 

19 the guidance to come from the Department, not 

20 from us to the Department. 

21 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: But you 

22 understand the distinction we're making about 

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1 preliminary, the preliminary nature of this. 

2 MR. BOTELER: Yes. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: This is 

4 methodological at this point. 

5 MR. BOTELER: Yes. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Right. 

7 Okay. 

8 PRELIMINARY MANUFACTURER IMPACT ANALYSIS AND 

9 OTHER RULEMAKING ANALYSES 

10 MR. NARDOTTI: Hello again. I'm 

11 here to talk about the preliminary 

12 manufacturer impact analysis and some of the 

13 NOPR analyses that will be happening in the 

14 next stage of the rulemaking. 

15 You can see here a flow diagram. 

16 And we highlight the preliminary manufacturer 

17 impact analysis. The point here is that it 

18 was conducted in parallel with the engineering 

19 analysis. 

20 So the manufacturer impact 

21 analysis is actually a NOPR analysis, but the 

22 preliminary manufacturer impact analysis is 

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1 part of that which is done here in the 

2 preliminary analyses. And the point of it is 

3 to identify and quantify the potential impacts 

4 of energy conservation standards on 

5 manufacturers. 

6 DOE conducts an MIA in three 

7 phases, the first of which, as I said, is done 

8 in the preliminary analysis. Phases two and 

9 three are done during the NOPR phase. And 

10 we'll discuss that in a few more slides. 

11 DOE conducted the preliminary MIA 

12 by providing an interview guide to NEMA 

13 members, which can be found as appendices 12A 

14 and 12B on the Web site, the same Web site 

15 where the announcement was mentioned before. 

16 These interview guides requested 

17 information regarding the engineering 

18 analysis, efficiency and market data, 

19 manufacturer defined key issues, company 

20 niches, capital costs and investment, facility 

21 impacts, and impacts on consumers as a result 

22 of standards. When DOE received written 

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1 responses, we then contacted the manufacturers 

2 to try and discuss and clarify some of those 

3 responses. 

4 I would like to talk about some of 

5 the key issues that were identified by the 

6 manufacturers during that phase. The first is 

7 the issue with production and product mix. 

8 Implementing standards would mean a higher 

9 per-unit cost that could potentially cause 

10 consumers to switch to other less expensive 

11 motors. 

12 A second issue that they 

13 identified was compliance costs. In some 

14 cases manufacturers may be able to meet 

15 proposed standard levels by modifying existing 

16 products, but in other cases, the changes may 

17 result in a complete product line redesign. 

18 This will cause manufacturers to 

19 incur one-time conversion capital expenses and 

20 product conversion expenses. And so this 

21 could also mean an obsolescence of existing 

22 tools and assets that the companies have. 

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1 A third issue that they 

2 identified, which we already touched on, was 

3 how standards will affect export sales, the 

4 proportion of the domestic market that is held 

5 by the foreign competition and domestic 

6 production levels. 

7 There are two more issues that 

8 they mentioned. And the fourth was with 

9 respect to market shares and industry 

10 consolidation. New standards could alter the 

11 competitive dynamics of the marketplace, 

12 prompting companies to enter the market, exit 

13 the market, or even merge with other 

14 companies. 

15 The interview questions tried to 

16 focus on information and helps DOE assess 

17 disproportionate cost increases to some 

18 manufacturers, increased proportion of fixed 

19 cost, potentially increasing business risks 

20 and potential barriers to market entry; for 

21 example, proprietary technologies. 

22 The fifth issue was cumulative 

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1 burden. A single regulation might not impose 

2 a significant burden on manufacturers, but 

3 several impending regulations may have a 

4 combined effect with serious consequences for 

5 individual manufacturers, groups of 

6 manufacturers, or even the entire industry. 

7 So assessing this cumulative regulatory burden 

8 is something that DOE wishes to learn more 

9 about and seeks any comment on. 

10 As a result of the preliminary 

11 interviews conducted with manufacturers, DOE 

12 identified three major concerns of 

13 manufacturers. The first is capital expenses 

14 to produce standards-compliant motors. 

15 As has been discussed earlier, the 

16 vast majority of small electric motors market 

17 is dominated by the four manufacturers: A. O. 

18 Smith, Baldor, Emerson, and Regal-Beloit. 

19 These manufacturers produce many 

20 other categories of motors. And because of 

21 this, the small electric motors market is a 

22 relatively small portion of their business. 

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1 If standards are pushed too high, 

2 capital expenses to retool may not justify the 

3 continued production of small electric motors. 

4 And they may just leave the market. 

5 Another issue with capital 

6 expenses is for small businesses. They have 

7 fewer sources from which to raise capital. 

8 And so they, too, may just choose to leave the 

9 market, rather than dealing with the 

10 difficulty of trying to raise capital 

11 necessary. 

12 The second major issue of concern 

13 is maintaining product availability and 

14 futures. It is possible that if efficiency 

15 levels are pushed too high for some equipment 

16 classes, the motors become larger in diameter, 

17 length, or some other dimension, this could 

18 cause a consolidation of some horsepowers and 

19 eliminate some of today's market. 

20 Manufacturers also expressed 

21 concern about retrofitting these newer 

22 potentially larger motors into already 

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1 existing applications. So this would 

2 ultimately affect the end user. 

3 The last issue that was raised by 

4 the manufacturers was the enforcement of 

5 potential standards. They're concerned that 

6 motors embedded in other equipment, especially 

7 those imported, may be non-compliant and could 

8 put manufacturers producing 

9 standards-compliant motors at a distinct 

10 disadvantage. 

11 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Please do, 

12 Dale? 

13 MR. BASSO: Dale Basso, WEG. 

14 I would like to take that one step 

15 further when we talk about lack of enforcement 

16 and noncompetitive. It's not just us, the 

17 motor manufacturers, that puts it in a 

18 competitive situation. It's our customers, 

19 the domestic machine manufacturers, who now 

20 have a competitive disadvantage against 

21 someone who doesn't buy products that meet the 

22 standard. 

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1 So the offshore products may come 

2 in with a lower-cost product that doesn't 

3 comply and there's no enforcement. So it 

4 hurts not only us but them. 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: You raised 

6 issues of enforcement earlier, several of you. 

7 Do you want to elaborate on them now since we 

8 have reached this point? I thought we covered 

9 it somewhat this morning. 

10 MR. BASSO: Yes. This is Dale 

11 Basso. 

12 I guess I'm not sure how much more 

13 to elaborate other than the fact that we think 

14 it would be extremely difficult to enforce the 

15 regulation because of the equipment, the motor 

16 drop and buried-in equipment coming in from 

17 offshore. 

18 The motors that are coming in in 

19 the boxcar for OEMs might be less of an issue 

20 than the equipment coming in in the middle of 

21 a piece of equipment that nobody can get down 

22 and look at nameplates or do tests on. So it 

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1 will never happen. The motors are too small 

2 to be a significant enough target. 

3 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: I see. 

4 Okay. Yes? 

5 MR. BOTELER: The manufacturers 

6 would welcome the Department's recommendations 

7 on enforcement. 

8 (Laughter.) 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you, 

10 Rob. 

11 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: We will, 

12 of course, examine that issue. 

13 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thanks, Rob 

14 and then Jim Raba, both of you. Thank you. A 

15 little bit of humor in the afternoon. 

16 Okay. We're moving on. Yes? 

17 MR. NARDOTTI: Yes. 

18 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: I know. I 

19 think we're in good shape. This last segment 

20 goes rapidly. 

21 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: A brief 

22 interlude. This is Robert Van Buskirk. 

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1 Brief interlude to life cycle 

2 costs subgroup. I got ahead of myself. 

3 Preliminary analysis. As we go from the 

4 preliminary analysis, we go through several 

5 steps. 

6 In the first step, the Department 

7 will revise the preliminary analysis and then 

8 include a series of additional analyses for 

9 the notice of proposed rulemaking stage. 

10 Those additional analyses will 

11 include the life cycle cost subgroup analysis, 

12 the full manufacture impact analysis, the 

13 utility impact analysis, employment impact 

14 analysis, the environmental assessment, and 

15 the regulatory impact analysis. 

16 So when the Department revises the 

17 preliminary analysis, for engineering, it will 

18 consider comments and revise using the latest 

19 data and information. 

20 For the life cycle cost and 

21 payback period analyses, it will consider 

22 comments, revise using the latest data, and 

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1 create an analysis for the LCC consumer 

2 subgroups. And, similarly, for the national 

3 impact analysis, it will consider comments and 

4 revise using the latest available data. 

5 For life cycle cost subgroup 

6 analysis, we have had some discussion of this 

7 earlier today. The purpose is to evaluate 

8 impacts on any identifiable groups or 

9 customers who may be disproportionately 

10 affected by any of the national energy 

11 efficiency standards or the levels that might 

12 be chosen. 

13 The method is to create a 

14 specialized version of the life cycle cost and 

15 payback period analysis for those subgroups of 

16 customers that fall into the identifiable 

17 subgroups, have a spreadsheet tool that 

18 provides transparency for the calculation for 

19 the public. And a key issue is which 

20 subgroups should be included. 

21 I think as we evaluated the 

22 applications, we can cross out farmers since 

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1 that will be closed motors, but still there 

2 may be small business groups or particular OEM 

3 manufacturers. Earlier today people were 

4 mentioning, for example, medical equipment. 

5 And then the output is customer 

6 subgroup life cycle costs and payback periods 

7 for those who will be especially -- so 

8 particularly there may be groups that are 

9 particularly sensitive to the purchase price 

10 increases earlier in the day. Interested 

11 parties mention design constraints and 

12 equipment constraints that particular 

13 applications and subgroups might have. 

14 So now the next is the 

15 manufacturer impact analysis. I'll hand back 

16 to Matt. 

17 MR. NARDOTTI: So to expand on 

18 what I just talked about a few minutes ago, so 

19 the actual manufacturer impact analysis is one 

20 required by the statute. The purpose, as I 

21 said, is to assess the impacts of small 

22 electric motor manufacturers. 

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1 During this analysis, DOE will 

2 identify the manufacturer subgroups that 

3 should be considered in more detail, as Robert 

4 just mentioned. And DOE will also examine the 

5 impacts of the cumulative regulatory burden. 

6 Under method here, we see that DOE 

7 shows a couple of tools available to conduct a 

8 manufacturer impact analysis. The first one 

9 is the government regulatory impact model, or 

10 the GRIM, which is an industry cash flow 

11 analysis. It also calculates the industry net 

12 present value. 

13 The second tool available to DOE 

14 is manufacturer interviews. I will describe 

15 this in a little more detail and what it 

16 entails on the next slide. 

17 The output of the MIA is again the 

18 industry net present value, the subgroup net 

19 present value, and any other impacts that are 

20 relevant to manufacturers. 

21 One last point of emphasis, when 

22 we conduct a manufacturer impact analysis, we 

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1 stress confidentiality. So as a contractor to 

2 DOE, we will establish at NCI the 

3 nondisclosure agreement so that we can conduct 

4 the interviews. 

5 This slide shows that the MIA is a 

6 three-phase process. Phase one includes the 

7 industry profile. Phase two includes the 

8 development of the Straw-man GRIM and the 

9 development of the interview guide. 

10 In phase three, we include the 

11 conducting the manufacturer interviews and 

12 industry-wide subgroup analysis. We also 

13 assess direct employment competition and the 

14 cumulative burden. The last activity of phase 

15 three is finalizing MIA results for the NOPR. 

16 The MIA is current and coordinated 

17 with activities throughout the rulemaking 

18 process. And that is the purpose of this 

19 slide, just to show how the phases are 

20 conducted and the timing relative to the other 

21 analyses. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, 

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1 please, Rob? 

2 MR. BOTELER: Our next step is 12 

3 months away. Is that right? Is it February 

4 of -- July of '09? So the actual 

5 manufacturing, all of this, the impact and 

6 potentially plant visits and everything, would 

7 have to happen before July of this year? 

8 MR. NARDOTTI: That is correct. 

9 MR. BOTELER: Thank you. 

10 MR. NARDOTTI: So phase one is the 

11 industry profile. What DOE does here is look 

12 at all available public information to 

13 describe the manufacturing of small motors. 

14 Some of the things we analyzed to 

15 develop the industry profile include industry 

16 reports, company annual reports, and Web sites 

17 themselves. 

18 We also use the information 

19 gathered during the preliminary MIA. And we 

20 revisit that information and try and be more 

21 thorough with it. The combination of these 

22 things gives us a picture of what the 

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1 manufacturing world looks like for small 

2 electric motors. 

3 The second phase is to develop the 

4 Straw-man GRIM. DOE uses the industry profile 

5 developed in phase one as an input to the 

6 GRIM. That is the basis for our initial 

7 Straw-man GRIM. 

8 What happens is we will, after 

9 phase two starts, take the information we 

10 learned in the interviews and recalculate the 

11 GRIM based on what we have learned during the 

12 interviews. 

13 Continuing with phase two, the 

14 second step is to develop the interview guide. 

15 Basically DOE looks at some of the topics 

16 that are relevant to manufacture in small 

17 electric motors. 

18 And we will prepare an interview 

19 guide. This interview guide will be mailed 

20 out to manufacturers, who agree to have the 

21 interviews ahead of time so that they will 

22 have time to look over the questions and 

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1 prepare responses. 

2 Some of the topics that are 

3 included in the interview guide are, again, 

4 the engineering analysis results, shipments, 

5 numbers that were shown here today, cost 

6 structure and financial parameters, conversion 

7 costs, impacts of other regulations, direct 

8 employment impacts, export issues, 

9 consolidation of the industry, replacement 

10 parts, refurbishments, impacts of standards 

11 for the effective date, and other topics that 

12 manufacturers feel are important to the 

13 rulemaking. That has all been written up in 

14 an interview guide. And it is mailed ahead of 

15 time along with a nondisclosure agreement. 

16 Phase three includes the 

17 interviews themselves. Typically what happens 

18 is that after the comment period closes for 

19 the preliminary analysis stage, just so you 

20 know, that is March 2nd, which is different 

21 than the test procedures comment period. 

22 We will be scheduling interviews 

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1 with manufacturers. And typically that is 

2 done; the interview, that is, is done on site 

3 at the manufacturer's production facilities. 

4 It is typically a whole-day event so that we 

5 can discuss all topics that are in the 

6 interview guide that we will prepare. 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

8 MR. BOTELER: And that's why I was 

9 asking the question. You need to plan, start 

10 planning, now because in several of our cases, 

11 those sites are going to be offshore. And 

12 they may be in Asia. You may need visas and 

13 things to get to those plants. And we need 

14 some lead time to be ready for you there or 

15 something. 

16 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: That's 

17 fair. 

18 MR. NARDOTTI: Thank you very 

19 much. 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Typically 

21 it's the case that they really start 

22 scheduling these things soon, right? 

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1 MR. NARDOTTI: Yes. I was going 

2 to mention that we will be contacting you very 

3 shortly. 

4 After the interviews are 

5 conducted, we prepare a summary report, which 

6 we will provide to the manufacturers 

7 interviewed along with NEMA, who can then 

8 review the information and make sure 

9 everything is correct and we have recorded the 

10 information properly. 

11 We then take the information from 

12 the interviews and consolidate what we have 

13 learned from each manufacturer and update the 

14 government regulatory impact model to do a 

15 final run. 

16 Finally, we report that 

17 information in the notice of proposed 

18 rulemaking, the NOPR, and in the NOPR TSD. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

20 MR. NARDOTTI: Sorry. Are there 

21 any questions about the MIA? 

22 (No response.) 

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1 MR. NARDOTTI: Thanks. Robert is 

2 up to talk about the utility impact analysis. 

3 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: For the notice 

4 of proposed rulemaking, there are four more 

5 analyses. For the utility impact analysis, 

6 the purpose is to investigate the effects on 

7 electric utilities in the utility sector for 

8 reduced energy consumption and reduced peak 

9 load demand due to the new energy conservation 

10 standards. 

11 The method that the Department 

12 uses is it begins with results from the 

13 national energy savings analysis, which gives 

14 an annual time series of the energy savings. 

15 And then the Department uses that 

16 as an input into the national energy modeling 

17 system, which is maintained by the Energy 

18 Information Administration and produces the 

19 annual energy outlook. 

20 So the output that results from 

21 the utility impact analysis includes changes 

22 in electricity sales and potentially 

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1 electricity price, changes in the mix of 

2 electricity generation, and changes in the new 

3 capacity in the utility sector. 

4 Any comments or questions about 

5 the utility impact analysis? 

6 (No response.) 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

8 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The next is the 

9 employment impact analysis. Now, the purpose 

10 of the employment impact analysis is to report 

11 net jobs created or eliminated nationally as a 

12 consequence of new energy conservation 

13 standards. 

14 Now, the direct employment impacts 

15 for the manufacturers are addressed in the 

16 manufacturer impact analysis, which was 

17 presented a little while ago. 

18 The type of impacts that are 

19 calculated from the employment impact analysis 

20 is indirect employment impacts that result 

21 from a shift in expenditures in the national 

22 economy. 

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1 So the Department will use an 

2 employment impact model called the "Impact of 

3 Sector Energy Technologies" model for the 

4 evaluation of these indirect employment 

5 impacts. 

6 And the employment impacts will 

7 result from changes in equipment and energy 

8 expenditures that are input from the national 

9 energy savings analysis. 

10 The output is a change in the 

11 commercial and energy sector employment as a 

12 consequence of the new energy conservation 

13 standards given as an annual time series. 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes, Roger? 

15 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

16 What's the chance that this impact 

17 of sector energy technologies model covers the 

18 OEMs and producers of the equipment for the 

19 applications that we have listed and talked 

20 about previously? 

21 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The ImSET model 

22 starts from the expenditures that are provided 

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1 by the national impact analysis. Included in 

2 those expenditures are the increase in 

3 equipment expenditures, which include all of 

4 the costs, the incremental costs, for the 

5 consumer. 

6 I guess the question posed by your 

7 comment is whether or not increased equipment 

8 expenditures are properly distributed between 

9 all of the players in the distribution chain. 

10 So a portion of those equipment 

11 costs is coming from the markups from the 

12 OEMs. So if the equipment costs are properly 

13 allocated to the different sectors, including 

14 the OEMs, then the ImSET model will properly 

15 account for the employment impacts because the 

16 ImSET model divides the national economy into 

17 dozens of economic sectors. 

18 And the ImSET model takes as an 

19 input how expenditures are shifted between 

20 those dozens of economic sectors and then does 

21 the accounting of the resulting employment 

22 impacts for each of the sectors and adds them 

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1 up as a total. 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Do you want 

3 to follow on? Roger? 

4 MR. DAUGHERTY: Roger Daugherty. 

5 Just briefly. I guess it's okay. 

6 There are these energy sectors that it talks 

7 about that I guess -- 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Sectors of 

9 the entire economy? 

10 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Sectors of the 

11 entire -- 

12 MR. DAUGHERTY: Of the entire 

13 economy. And it's whether or not in creating 

14 those sectors that are in the model, is there 

15 a good likelihood that it will actually cover 

16 and analyze correctly those who use our motors 

17 and the impact that it may have on them that 

18 we have talked about. 

19 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Well, the ImSET 

20 tends to use average employment intensity 

21 numbers for the sector. So to the extent that 

22 any particular sector, like the OEM 

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1 manufacturers, may have an impact that is not 

2 reflected in the average behavior of their 

3 sector, the Department would appreciate 

4 comments, information, and data on what those 

5 employment impacts might look like. 

6 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: This 

7 section is to measure employment impacts? 

8 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Correct. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Yes. 

10 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Right. So 

11 stakeholders may have comments. These 

12 efficiency levels would have this type of 

13 employment impact that may not be included in 

14 the ImSET model. 

15 So given information about types 

16 of impacts that may not be captured in the 

17 model, DOE then may be able to take that into 

18 consideration. 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Charlie? 

20 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

21 This sounds like a question that 

22 ought to be on the manufacturer interview 

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1 sheet, being able to properly align their 

2 markets and their knowledge of their markets 

3 with whatever sectorization, if I can use that 

4 word, there is in the ImSET model so that they 

5 know which boxes their markets go into so that 

6 there can be accurate representation there. 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: That's a 

8 good point, good point. I'm sure that we 

9 captured that. Yes. Okay. Thank you, 

10 Charlie. 

11 Additional thoughts on this before 

12 we move on? 

13 (No response.) 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

15 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Okay. The next 

16 analysis is the environmental assessment. And 

17 in the environmental assessment, the purpose 

18 is to report environmental impacts as a 

19 consequence of the new energy conservation 

20 standards, including changes in power plant 

21 emissions. 

22 The method is to take the energy 

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1 savings results from the national energy 

2 savings analysis and use the Energy 

3 Information Administration's national energy 

4 modeling system, which provides power plant 

5 emissions to estimate the changes in 

6 emissions, especially sulfur dioxide, oxides 

7 of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and mercury that 

8 might result from the standard. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Tom? 

10 MR. HINK: Tom Hink. 

11 I just had a question. There's 

12 nothing in the environmental assessment that 

13 would take into account the possible addition 

14 of emissions to create new laminations, to 

15 create the additional copper wire that may go 

16 into these higher efficient motors? 

17 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Currently there 

18 is no accounting of emissions from laminations 

19 in the type of applications you mentioned. 

20 The Department welcomes comments from all 

21 interested parties on environmental impacts 

22 that should be considered in the environmental 

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1 assessment. 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Those 

3 outputs that you list at the bottom of the 

4 slide, are those the only ones you typically 

5 look for? 

6 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Yes. 

7 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Tim? 

8 MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo, 

9 Earthjustice. 

10 I just want to encourage you to 

11 look at particulate matter in addition. Also, 

12 I think the Department has given the reason 

13 before when faced with the question just 

14 raised by the manufacturers that it looks at 

15 the impact on emissions of the energy use of 

16 the product itself, that it has to draw the 

17 line somewhere. And that seems reasonable to 

18 me. 

19 Just then one quick more general 

20 comment, the utility impact analysis, 

21 environment impact analysis, and environmental 

22 analysis all tend to be calculated and then 

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1 disappear. 

2 And we again encourage the 

3 Department to incorporate these values with a 

4 dollar figure into the national net present 

5 value analysis of the rulemaking to arrive at 

6 a true assessment of the impact of the 

7 rulemaking monetarily nationwide. 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

9 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Thank you. 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: So any 

11 additional comments on environmental 

12 assessment issues? 

13 (No response.) 

14 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

15 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: Okay. Let's 

16 see. 

17 Additionally in the environmental 

18 assessment section, DOE invites comment on the 

19 monetary value of greenhouse gas emissions 

20 reduction and other emissions. DOE will use 

21 monetary values to represent the potential 

22 value of such emissions reduction. 

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1 DOE invites comments on methods 

2 for estimating these values and comments on 

3 which data and reports provide information 

4 regarding widely accepted values that may be 

5 useful to the analysis. 

6 So the final NOPR analysis we 

7 discuss is the regulatory impact analysis. 

8 The purpose of the regulatory impact analysis 

9 is to investigate the national impacts due to 

10 non-regulatory alternatives. 

11 The non-regulatory alternatives 

12 that may be considered include no new 

13 regulatory action, early replacement programs, 

14 prescriptive standards, customer tax credits, 

15 manufacturer tax credits, customer rebates, 

16 voluntary efficiency targets, and bulk up 

17 government procurement. 

18 The method is to -- 

19 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Rob? 

20 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler. 

21 On the tax credits and these other 

22 alternative methods, are they only in 

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1 reference to what we have talked about today 

2 as covered product or would this be an 

3 alternative product which offered greater 

4 energy savings and we could introduce that as 

5 something for a tax credit? 

6 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: The purpose of 

7 the regulatory impact analysis is to look at 

8 non-regulatory alternatives to the regulation. 

9 The method that is used in the 

10 regulatory impact analysis is there is a 

11 modification at the national impact analysis 

12 spreadsheet that includes energy prices and 

13 escalation factors and implicit market 

14 discount rates and customer purchase price 

15 effects and elasticities to model the impacts 

16 of those non-regulatory alternatives. 

17 The output from the regulatory 

18 impact analysis spreadsheet is the national 

19 energy savings and net present value of the 

20 various non-regulatory alternatives. 

21 And that's it. Any comments and 

22 questions? 

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1 (No response.) 

2 MR. VAN BUSKIRK: I will now hand 

3 it over to Jim Raba for closing remarks. 

4 FINAL QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, AND DISCUSSION 

5 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Please do. 

6 Yes? Please go right ahead, Molly. 

7 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: Molly 

8 Trombley-McCann. 

9 This is a question that actually 

10 relates back to the scope of the rulemaking. 

11 We're wondering, particularly in California, 

12 that because the scope of motors covered by 

13 this particular rulemaking is so small, we're 

14 wondering about the possibility of setting 

15 future standards for other motors that aren't 

16 currently covered by this rulemaking. 

17 In particular, we're thinking of 

18 small motors that aren't covered under the 

19 current scope. And we had a question about 

20 whether or not there would be a preemption 

21 concern for those other small motors that 

22 aren't covered under the current scope of the 

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1 rulemaking. 

2 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Are you 

3 asking what other motors might be covered 

4 subsequently? 

5 MS. TROMBLEY-McCANN: No. We're 

6 actually asking if it's a small motor, even if 

7 it's not covered by the rulemaking, it might 

8 still be preempted because it is a small motor 

9 and the title of the rulemaking is -- 

10 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Got you. 

11 Thank you. 

12 Tim, do you want to follow on 

13 there? 

14 MR. BALLO: Yes. Tim, 

15 Earthjustice. 

16 It would be helpful for the 

17 Department to clarify its position on that in 

18 the NOPR and in the final rule. We will be 

19 submitting comments that address. 

20 We think the statutory language on 

21 this point, although not very user-friendly, 

22 is clear that preemption would not apply and 

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1 California and other states could do standards 

2 for small motors not covered by the federal 

3 standards. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Is it Dan? 

5 MR. TROMBLEY: Yes. Dan Trombley 

6 with ACEEE. 

7 In a way, I would like to echo 

8 those comments just made. And I think 

9 everyone in this room pretty much agrees that 

10 the scope of this rulemaking is a very small 

11 subset of the total energy use by small motors 

12 in this country. 

13 So we think that it could lead to 

14 a misallocation of funds, even if the 

15 preemption is not an issue and it's open to be 

16 other small motors are open to be regulated. 

17 It's sort of somewhat of a 

18 distraction to focus all of these funds, both 

19 on DOE's part with regulatory and rulemaking 

20 enforcement and on the motor manufacturer's 

21 part with complying with these regulations 

22 that by focusing on this small percentage, it 

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1 leaves a very large percentage of energy use 

2 unregulated, which is sort of I guess, as I 

3 said, a misallocation of funds and resources. 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

5 Thank you. 

6 Jim? 

7 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Jim Raba, 

8 DOE. 

9 If you would like, please, to 

10 amplify when you say a large unregulated 

11 market perhaps? I don't want to put words in 

12 your mouth, but for the record and the record 

13 there, is there any data you could provide, 

14 like the magnitude of what else is out there? 

15 Is it feasible by our criteria as 

16 well, technologically feasible, economically 

17 justified? Would it save a significant amount 

18 of energy considering all of the analyses that 

19 would have to be examined in the meantime? 

20 It's a valid comment, but, again, 

21 we would need some data or some other criteria 

22 to substantiate that. We may or may not have 

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1 to look at that. But I just want to kind of 

2 put some more into that comment. 

3 MR. TROMBLEY: Dan Trombley. 

4 Yes. We will probably be 

5 submitting some comments with what data we 

6 have. And we recognize that in the scope of 

7 what you are entitled to do or regulated to 

8 do, that it still may be outside that scope, 

9 but we just want to recognize that this is a 

10 much larger issue. 

11 And this is a concern that wasn't 

12 working in this section for a number of years, 

13 over a decade or two. And this has been a 

14 longstanding concern with a lot of these 

15 regulations. 

16 And we don't want to miss anything 

17 big. Thank you. 

18 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Thank 

19 you. 

20 CLOSING REMARKS AND ADJOURNMENT 

21 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: It's been 

22 a good couple of days. Thank you very much 

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1 for your patience, not only your work, your 

2 input. 

3 We appreciate, the Department does 

4 appreciate, everything here. In my view I 

5 think 126 slides of this one presentation has 

6 been a record. Congratulations. 

7 (Laughter.) 

8 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: You held 

9 up very well. And we appreciate for our 

10 facilitator, Doug Brookman; Brenda Edwards, 

11 who has been behind the scenes preparing 

12 everything for you, the handouts, the cards, 

13 the setup for the room, things like that, the 

14 unsung heroine of our work effort here. We'll 

15 certainly look to your comments coming in. 

16 We have a very tight schedule 

17 throughout this as one of many rulemakings 

18 we're doing. So the better the data, the 

19 better the information. Most appreciated. We 

20 are working a tight schedule as well. But, 

21 again, to wish you all a safe journey home. 

22 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Do you want 

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1 to cover that? 

2 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: I'm 

3 sorry? 

4 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Do you want 

5 to cover that slide? 

6 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Which 

7 ones? 

8 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: The 

9 consensus recommendations slide. 

10 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: Oh. What 

11 Doug is pointing out to me here is slide 125. 

12 You see it on the screen right there. We 

13 have heard inputs from many views, all of 

14 which are very interesting to the Department. 

15 But the consensus recommendations, 

16 if there's something you've heard today where 

17 there can be consensus among a broad scale of 

18 interested parties and broad support for any 

19 of the standards work or the other -- 

20 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Test 

21 procedures. 

22 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: -- test 

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1 procedures and the like you have heard today, 

2 we would like very much to hear from you as a 

3 consensus of recommendations of a particular 

4 test procedure/procedures, such as. 

5 And, again, I note that in the 

6 second bullet, there are seven statutory 

7 criteria that must be satisfied for them, of 

8 which the baseline is technologically 

9 feasible, economically justified, resulting in 

10 a significant savings. 

11 But there are other criteria also 

12 enumerated, like utility and things like that, 

13 health and safety as well, which are in the 

14 statute. And it was covered today in part of 

15 the discussions in your TSD, your executive 

16 summary. 

17 So, anyway, with any 

18 recommendation, also we would ask that you 

19 would provide very good, substantiating data, 

20 and your rationale behind that data and how 

21 you arrived at your conclusion for your 

22 position, which will be very helpful for all 

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1 concerned. 

2 So any other things I should 

3 cover? Any questions, please? 

4 (No response.) 

5 PRESIDING OFFICER RABA: We've 

6 covered a lot. Thank you very much. And I 

7 look forward to your comments. Thank you. 

8 Give yourselves a round or applause. 

9 FACILITATOR BROOKMAN: Safe 

10 travels. 

11 (Applause.) 

12 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 

13 was concluded at 3:56 p.m.) 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22

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A

ability 78:8

able 44:10 59:18

76:16 77:3 85:1

97:21 99:14

121:12 123:18

173:14 186:11,13

203:2 222:2

283:12 291:14

313:17 314:1

absence 252:16

absent 46:19

absolute 100:19

105:5

absolutely 20:11

113:11 114:20

acceleration 158:1

acceptable 21:17

81:11 82:21 124:5

126:9

accepted 318:4

accommodate

107:21

account 56:18 75:6

98:10 151:9 153:6

167:17 168:22

184:1 211:14

237:9 253:11

277:3 311:15

315:13

accounting 162:15

311:21 315:18

accounts 55:15

167:19

accurate 149:2

152:11 215:11

277:14 288:13

314:6

ACEEE 2:13 6:3

322:6

achieve 37:2 76:7

80:17 81:13 105:1

105:12 159:9

achieved 52:7

87:18

achieving 140:3

Act 13:18 187:12

action 318:13

actions 12:4 15:4

59:19

activities 302:17

activity 46:15

302:14

actual 86:10

100:20 118:22

148:22 149:3,4

182:16 184:22

225:6 229:4 239:4

300:19 303:4

add 4:11 71:9

73:10 108:12

129:2,6 135:19

138:19 147:19

169:7 184:8 205:1

247:10 266:13

273:6

added 104:8 129:4

226:18 239:16

241:14 264:1

adder 258:7

adding 89:12 96:9

129:18 217:22

264:11

addition 53:14

125:7 158:10

197:18 218:3

315:13 316:11

additional 9:2

10:21 43:11,12

50:4 55:7 61:4

82:22 83:19 86:4

103:9 109:1

119:16 168:7

200:3 220:9,12

222:12 223:13,14

234:2 236:18

240:12 242:20

246:19 248:4

271:8 280:17

298:8,10 314:11

315:15 317:11

Additionally

317:17

address 52:16

73:15 183:14

188:3 228:11

253:6 287:7

321:19

addressed 22:17

23:10 180:3

233:16 309:15

addressing 67:17

adds 311:22

adequate 78:13

adjourn 9:7

Adjournment 3:20

324:20

adjust 91:14

196:13

adjusted 278:1

adjusting 135:5,6

adjustment 208:14

210:4,7 262:5

Adjuvant 2:13

administration

169:1 308:18

Administration's

249:9 315:3

adopted 53:9,13

187:11

advance 16:4

advanced 2:2,5

6:14,15 111:1

advantage 98:19

adverse 118:1,3,13

131:3

adversely 157:22

advisers 177:17

AEDM 66:6

AEO 249:18 253:3

affect 157:22 181:4

292:3 295:2

affiliation 5:5

10:18

aftermarket 33:16

afternoon 297:15

after-market 219:9

Agamloh 2:2 6:13

6:13 45:9,10

46:14 235:2,2,4

agency 252:9

agenda 3:2 7:10

9:10 17:12 214:16

aggregate 183:2

216:11

aggregated 150:2

ago 86:22 90:3

113:17 158:2

162:13 269:20

278:17 300:18

309:17

agree 80:2,3 191:10

197:16 233:5

246:22 274:5

304:20

agreement 80:1

302:3 305:15

agreements 182:21

agrees 322:9

agricultural 257:3

ahead 12:8 64:19

64:21 66:16 70:9

79:12 96:18

181:13 214:9

238:16 298:2

304:21 305:14

320:6

AHRI 6:1 132:17

203:22 204:17

255:6

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air 96:6 97:16

117:1 119:4,6

125:6,18,19 126:2

130:18,18 131:5

138:15 154:12,13

154:15 275:21

276:14,21

Air-Conditioning

2:10

algorithms 152:6

184:6

align 314:1

Alliance 6:8 78:22

100:13 155:2,4

163:22 251:11

274:17

allocated 255:20,21

311:13

allow 5:2 206:9

269:15

allowances 250:20

allowed 125:11

144:1 155:12

168:17

allows 215:11

alloy 131:9

alluded 149:17

192:20

ally 9:21

alter 292:10

altered 157:20

alternating 25:18

26:3,8,10 27:15

31:19 48:12

alternative 102:11

102:13 112:2,3

270:1 318:22

319:3

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318:10,11 319:8

319:16,20

aluminum 161:8,9

161:11 162:4

163:5

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amazed 176:1

amended 13:18

American 58:10

130:10,13

amount 34:5 57:20

86:4 99:3 111:17

130:2 141:21

154:16 160:18

161:3,6,11,12

178:5 225:9

230:10 323:17

amplify 92:15

323:10

amps 174:5,9

175:16

analyses 3:16 8:19

17:14,19,20 18:3

18:8 21:3 22:9,15

23:8 123:5 139:20

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148:8 150:13,22

202:14 224:2,5

242:5 255:14

283:13 289:9,13

290:2 298:8,10,21

302:21 308:5

323:18

analysis 3:7,8,10

3:12,14,16 7:19

8:1,2,16,16,17,18

11:22 12:6,13

13:1 14:3 15:11

15:17 17:11 18:19

21:4 22:18 23:11

23:15,22 24:3,4

24:13 25:10,11

35:7 37:13 55:19

56:10 62:5 69:10

70:13 71:2 89:19

90:1 93:2 95:8

99:21 104:20

107:17 117:8,12

117:18,20,20

118:6,7,20 120:3

120:18 121:17

122:2,7,15,16,17

123:3,9 125:2

127:15 128:2

136:12 139:12,13

139:17,19,22

140:4,5,6,7,7,10

140:13,17,20

142:12 143:11

144:9,17 145:11

147:9 148:1,3

149:19 150:3

151:11 153:8

163:13 164:2

173:20 178:11

181:3 186:9 187:5

193:17 195:2

197:9,20,21

198:20 199:10,11

202:14 203:17

204:4 207:10,15

208:16,18 209:4

209:20,22 210:3,4

210:5,8,14,17

214:21 215:1,2,4

215:6,8,14 216:15

216:22 217:2,6,11

223:16,20,21

224:1 233:7

234:19,21 239:18

240:11 241:15

242:6,8,22 243:8

248:9,10,11,19

252:12 253:14

254:1 256:2,6,13

257:13,17 258:8

258:22 259:3

261:15,18 262:2,4

262:7,10,14 263:3

264:4 265:5,11

267:17,19,20,20

267:22 268:2,10

268:12 269:6,9

271:1,6,9,10,13

278:3,16,18 279:5

279:9 281:1,20

282:18 283:18,20

283:21 286:18

289:8,12,17,19,21

289:21,22 290:8

290:18 298:3,4,7

298:11,12,13,14

298:15,17 299:1,3

299:6,15 300:15

300:19 301:1,8,11

301:22 302:12

305:4,19 308:2,5

308:13,21 309:5,9

309:10,16,19

310:9 311:1

314:16 315:2

316:20,21,22

317:5 318:5,6,7,8

319:7,10,11,18

analytical 17:3

analyze 140:16

197:9 312:16

analyzed 18:14

171:22 181:10

193:17 194:3

196:8 200:11

201:2,7 284:3

303:14

analyzing 57:8

143:2 219:17

251:5

Andrle 2:2 5:20,20

38:12,12 40:21

41:3,3,12 42:16

42:16 69:14,15

103:13,18,18

126:12,12 133:16

133:16 137:18,18

148:12,12 225:22

225:22 242:12

243:16,16 265:13

265:13,19,22

266:7,8 281:8

282:6,6

angle 133:21

anneal 138:18

annealing 96:12

243:22

announce 15:18

announcement

283:7 290:15

annual 90:6 168:14

232:14 240:2,3,5

240:7,15 249:9

273:11 279:13

280:10,13,17

303:16 308:14,19

310:13

answer 39:3 121:1

178:20 212:3

231:3

anticipate 8:5

antitrust 92:18

anybody 9:2 11:4

11:12 54:17

214:13 287:8

anymore 122:1

anyway 327:17

apologies 83:15

apologize 64:17

132:5

apparently 258:16

appear 70:17 79:10

132:10 173:20

appears 97:1

174:14 190:11

235:18 236:5

263:22 264:20

appendices 290:13

appendix 30:4 99:5

136:19 144:8

158:11 172:10

173:15 209:8,11

applause 328:8,11

apples 264:9,10,10

appliance 114:13

application 21:5,7

21:10,16,18,21

22:7 26:11,14

27:12,13,21 28:1

28:16,17 29:8,9

31:3,20 32:7,8,11

32:20 33:1,15,22

42:12,13 81:12

120:3,6,7,18

124:6 125:3

178:16 183:19

272:6 273:14

275:19

applications 22:21

23:9 29:17,21

30:11 35:14 38:18

45:4 51:12 72:15

99:16 102:15

111:5 112:3,18

119:22 120:19

122:6 180:14

185:5 270:10

271:7,11 272:18

276:15 277:13

295:1 299:22

300:13 310:19

315:19

applied 28:1 29:8

67:20 76:21 91:7

107:19 125:16

167:3 168:1,2,6

169:4 209:15

applies 48:3,6

147:21 156:8

157:5 165:15

apply 27:6 65:3

68:19 69:11 79:17

102:7 117:12

145:4 156:15

204:20 276:18

321:22

applying 61:19

appreciate 4:11

44:4 46:6,7 47:4

54:8,15 71:13

127:12 134:20

225:20 282:3

313:3 325:3,4,9

appreciated 153:9

280:18 285:3

288:14 325:19

approach 12:12

59:1,22 91:17

143:12 163:17

164:14 257:12

259:17 263:16

appropriate 24:19

25:6 31:11 40:2

90:5 234:8 251:15

252:4

approximately

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189:5 224:14

229:19 262:16

265:3

area 96:2 105:17

111:17 114:3

138:12 154:9,10

155:1 174:22

244:8 259:22

272:11,17,21

273:5

areas 111:20

112:17 233:19

argue 173:10

arrive 144:9

146:22 167:3,4

175:22 180:3

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assumed 136:20

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assumptions 139:6

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attainable 74:6

attempted 143:11

attended 14:14

attention 225:11

233:16

attributed 160:3

August 14:15

authority 13:16

30:15

automated 129:22

129:22 130:3

availability 15:19

118:2 294:13

available 71:15

90:4 94:5 122:16

154:10 155:4

168:11 204:7

254:2 278:5 283:2

299:4 301:7,13

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Avenue 1:10

average 163:8,9

167:15 248:21

256:22 257:1,13

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avoid 154:2

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axis 190:9

A-F-T-E-R-N-O-...

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A.O 2:3 5:8

B

B 2:4 27:5 30:4

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back 4:4 33:17 34:8

37:6 39:22 40:17

41:16 47:18 65:2

68:4 73:16 82:20

91:11 105:1

108:11 109:20

110:18 179:17

190:14 191:13

193:12 194:4

200:8 201:20

203:8 211:20

213:7,8 214:4

221:18,20 237:3

238:7 242:13

264:18 265:14

266:8 269:20

273:6 276:18

277:12 281:11,13

281:18 300:15

320:10

background 37:11

99:2,12

bad 102:4

badge 109:10

badges 109:21

213:19

balance 216:11

Baldor 2:6 5:12

56:20 293:18

ball 160:14 164:14

Ballo 2:3 47:16,16

49:17,17 249:16

249:16 250:10,10

252:10,10 253:13

253:13 283:15,15

284:7,16,19 285:1

316:8,8 321:14

ballpark 84:1

Baltimore 5:1

band 126:21

bank 200:4

bar 10:1 80:22

101:6 213:16

barely 170:13

barrel 82:5,8 83:8

86:10 112:11

barriers 292:20

bars 96:3 138:13

205:6

Barth 2:3 5:8,8

263:20,20 266:20

base 166:17,18,19

196:21 197:6

261:4,5 263:6

based 18:7 68:7

97:7 103:21

117:16 147:13

148:1 152:6

166:12 188:5

198:7,9 210:7

216:5 219:21

249:8 251:20

255:14 256:9

257:15 274:12

281:13 304:11

baseline 144:18,21

145:2,9,14 153:19

155:13,19 162:9

216:16 219:14,18

222:6,9,18,20

223:1,5 239:12

242:14 248:12,14

260:12,13 261:6,8

261:15,17,21

262:3,6 266:10

281:13,18,21

327:8

basic 63:9 65:5,5,6

65:10,21 66:2,9

66:12 67:8 77:11

basically 19:7 38:2

104:1 133:20

134:1 152:6 211:5

242:13 304:15

basis 47:10 120:18

149:21 304:6

Basso 2:4 5:16,16

76:11,11 79:13,13

81:17,17 84:8

85:17 86:8 128:10

128:10 151:8

152:18 185:11,11

185:20 223:8,8

244:2,2 245:11

246:10,20 274:1,1

295:13,13 296:10

296:11

bearing 107:3

bearings 107:3

138:21 158:18,20

159:3,7 160:15

began 144:18

beginning 22:15

150:19 213:1

242:14

begins 308:12

behalf 151:19

behavior 313:2

believe 29:1 42:3

43:17 90:2 120:2

125:21 163:8,15

172:11 184:11

223:17 247:8

BELINDA 2:5

belts 112:7,12,13

benefit 98:22 178:4

185:16 203:7

250:18 256:1

281:6

benefits 215:19

255:20

Berkeley 1:16,19

23:7 282:20

best 59:1,21 227:20

better 138:21

170:15 288:12

325:18,19

beverage 272:11

beyond 105:19

127:3 186:12

big 77:21 213:12

259:21 324:17

bigger 77:15 79:20

222:19

bill 5:18 76:10

79:11 81:16 83:16

92:11,14 143:21

146:11 151:17

152:1,4 160:8

168:1,4,6 169:4,8

204:22 205:4

252:12

Bill's 158:4 212:3

bit 37:11 82:22

87:22 113:21

115:3 129:16

152:2 201:4

221:21 225:13

254:10,18 285:12

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blade 155:1

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blow 117:2

blower 272:2

blue 18:20

blueprint 66:5

board 93:6

boiled 38:1

bonded 96:13

131:8,22

bore 17:15

borne 245:10

Boteler 2:4 5:13,13

24:8 27:17,17

28:22 29:5 33:6

43:7,21 57:10,10

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91:4,4 93:9,9,22

105:16 106:1,3,8

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113:8,11 116:9,12

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Boteler's 125:5

bottom 50:18 84:4

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bought 33:20

bound 201:8

box 55:3

boxcar 296:19

boxes 12:19 13:7

13:10 65:20 112:7

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break 7:21 8:6 17:8

24:7,7 40:6 94:22

109:4,5 267:10

271:7 277:6

breakage 155:8

breakdown 42:2,19

157:9 176:4

179:10

breakout 271:10

Brenda 1:15

325:10

brief 7:10,16 11:5

11:13 43:4 297:21

298:1

briefly 182:6 312:5

bring 29:14 32:22

59:18 183:12

185:15 200:12

225:11 246:7

277:12

brings 196:19

broad 259:18,21

326:17,18

broader 33:10

brochures 95:7

Brookman 1:10,13

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4:22 5:10 6:20

7:2,6 9:14 11:2

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28:20 29:3,10

30:19 31:6,12

32:1 33:5 34:10

36:2,5,9 37:5

38:10,21 39:15

40:7 41:1,9,15

42:14 43:3,9,20

44:5,9,13 45:6,21

46:4,11 47:1,13

49:7 50:3,9 51:13

52:1,4,15,19 54:5

54:19 55:3 56:6

56:13 57:9 58:17

59:4,11 60:1 61:2

61:7 63:4,20 64:4

64:8,19 66:16,22

67:13 69:13 70:8

71:16 73:12 74:9

74:14,20 75:11,15

76:8 78:11 79:11

79:22 81:14 83:14

84:6 85:15 86:19

87:19 88:21 89:13

91:2 92:10,13,20

93:19 94:2,15,18

94:21 95:2,3

96:17 99:13 100:8

100:11 103:8,16

104:12 105:14

106:17 108:8,21

109:3 110:3 113:6

113:10 116:7,11

116:13 117:6

118:16 120:11,14

122:9 123:6

126:11 128:9

129:14 130:14

132:14 133:14

134:10 135:12

136:3 137:6 138:3

138:7 144:4

146:17 147:12,16

148:10 149:13

151:1,5,14 153:1

156:16 158:6

161:17 162:17

163:20 164:17

165:4 166:8

169:15 171:3,11

171:14,17 172:7

172:14,18 180:8

181:11 182:5

185:2,9,18,22

186:19 187:22

190:16 193:3

195:9,19 196:17

197:15,22 198:6

198:14 199:13

200:1,6 201:18

203:15,19 204:14

205:16 206:4,15

206:19 207:20

209:1 210:11,22

211:5,8 212:8,18

212:22 214:3

219:11 220:19

223:7,19 224:17

225:21 228:15

231:4 233:20

234:1 235:3,13

236:16 237:6

238:3,15 239:6

241:3 242:11

243:9,15 244:1

245:6,12 246:8,18

247:13,16 248:5

250:1 251:9

253:18 255:3

257:6,9,20 259:1

260:3 262:18

263:18 265:17,21

266:18 267:12,15

269:17 270:20

271:14 273:16,21

274:15 275:14,22

276:3 277:10

280:9 281:7 282:5

282:12 283:4,9,14

284:11,15 285:21

286:1 287:5 288:3

288:15,21 289:3,6

295:11 296:5

297:3,9,13,18

302:22 306:7,16

306:20 307:19

309:7 310:14

312:2,8 313:6,9

313:19 314:7,14

315:9 316:2,7

317:8,10,14

318:19 320:5

321:2,10 322:4

323:4 325:10,22

326:4,8,20 328:9

brought 22:13 23:2

51:18 53:5 158:2

build 28:3 33:13

86:9 91:8 101:9

101:18 102:22

124:2 126:18

175:11

building 28:4 97:20

109:10,13 213:5

213:11,19

built 25:19 34:20

35:16 151:22

184:4,17 275:9

bulk 34:8 160:2

318:16

bullet 31:2,16

32:10 64:13 327:6

bullets 16:19

burden 293:1,2,7

301:5 302:14

burdened 165:16

buried-in 296:16

burns 121:11

business 34:6 92:17

174:21 292:19

293:22 300:2

businesses 294:6

Buskirk 1:19 3:11

3:13,14,17 23:6,7

122:12,13 186:4,5

190:17 191:16

192:5 195:20

197:7,17 198:5,9

199:8 207:21,22

210:2,18 211:2,7

214:18,22 218:16

219:12 221:4,7,11

221:15,19 223:15

223:22 225:12

226:5 227:5

229:13 231:1

232:5 233:5,22

234:17 235:7,14

236:1,6 237:7

238:11 239:7

241:16 243:10

245:8 248:7 250:2

256:3 257:8,10

258:7 259:2

260:10 261:5,13

262:1,11 263:1,7

263:10 264:22

265:20 266:2,13

267:7,14,18

270:14,22 273:17

277:19 280:12,16

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Butler 2:5 6:15,15

buy 77:3 295:21

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C

C 124:9,12 125:7

153:7

cafeteria 213:12,12

cage 96:1,2 138:11

138:12

calculate 100:7

136:22 165:16

174:1 234:18

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calculated 90:6

160:5 194:18

209:10 268:16,18

285:6 309:19

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calculates 100:1

301:11

calculating 99:4

136:21 251:6

calculation 137:1

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calculations 147:5

273:9

calibration 182:14

California 2:8 6:12

43:15 60:7 113:12

113:18 169:18

182:13 212:14

320:11 322:1

call 33:19,19 82:10

181:12 233:16

called 65:5 104:17

135:8 168:15

230:5 310:2

calling 83:15

calls 43:18 60:12

campus 213:6

candidate 202:8,18

203:8 206:22

211:16,19 259:8

280:2

cap 69:6 249:19,22

250:14,21 251:4

251:13,13 252:1

254:11 255:11

capabilities 39:11

capability 123:4

127:2

capable 34:18

capacitor 35:4,18

37:1 42:6 45:1,3

142:8 207:13

capacitor-run 35:3

35:9 38:3 41:21

45:14 90:22 280:8

capacitor-start

35:1,2,3,8,9 38:2

38:3 41:20,21,22

43:1,1 45:14

90:20,22 134:3,3

142:4,6,8 181:8

209:17 257:15

280:6,7 283:19

capacity 61:13

309:3

capital 256:15,17

256:19,22 257:2

290:20 291:19

293:13 294:2,5,7

294:10

caps 252:18

capture 141:11

captured 313:16

314:9

cap-run 92:3

cap-start 91:19

92:3

carbon 249:19,22

250:5,14,21 251:4

251:6,13,13 252:1

252:1 254:11,12

255:1,18 315:7

cards 325:12

careful 57:14

carefully 54:14

107:16

CARR 2:5

carried 67:9

carry 71:2

case 115:22 148:20

208:10 216:16

220:4 223:3

249:10 259:7

262:14 263:6

264:2 279:6

282:17 306:21

cases 80:21 87:10

124:3 211:1

249:11 291:14,16

306:10

cash 128:2 301:10

catalogue 72:13

76:22

catalogues 68:8

69:5 89:3 140:21

145:12 177:7

228:3

categories 34:21

35:5,10 38:19

57:3 93:15 114:1

141:7,13 194:21

242:2 270:18

274:4,14,20

293:20

category 34:7 91:7

92:7,9 141:1

222:3 271:19

273:20 284:14

cause 67:1 154:17

244:5 291:9,18

294:18

caused 99:9

causing 97:16

caution 99:1

255:13

cell 10:9

census 90:6 165:18

166:1 216:13

center 50:18 60:10

109:13

certain 13:4 20:15

20:16 30:7 46:3

100:4 117:13

180:22 204:5

certainly 4:6 40:21

47:4 51:20 57:11

59:2 129:19 149:5

152:10 176:18

179:7 225:5,11

287:11 325:15

certification

244:21 245:9

246:11,13

certified 244:10,11

246:14,14

certifying 245:20

cetera 177:17

CFR 30:4 53:8 62:2

chain 216:19,21

217:4 218:1 223:5

311:9

chance 12:8 13:12

79:19 256:5

310:16

change 21:15 84:16

84:19,20 86:3

88:18 98:13 104:6

120:9 123:12

124:13 129:3

148:4 151:10

155:12 160:13,17

161:12 169:20

179:12 191:9

219:19,21 220:17

239:2 244:19

245:1 250:20

272:16 273:3

279:8 310:10

changed 40:4

110:19 285:12

changes 21:6 40:1

115:5 116:2

126:14 128:12

144:22 145:5

160:22 161:1

162:16 194:10

242:3 246:16

291:16 308:21

309:1,2 310:7

314:20 315:5

change-out 278:11

278:20

changing 96:4,10

103:19,20 124:9

channel 33:11

218:20 225:14

channels 216:7

217:5,8,13 225:16

276:13

chapter 16:14

125:1 145:15

157:2 166:7 188:3

190:2 192:21

209:6,13 221:1,3

221:4,7,9,11,13

221:16 227:6

230:2 231:11

274:19 282:14,16

282:17,18,18

chapters 221:21

characteristic 70:6

138:1

characteristics

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30:8 37:19 62:8

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136:10 172:3

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characterization

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characterize 24:18

25:3 99:14 186:14

257:18

characterized

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charges 68:1

Charlie 2:13 6:6

78:20,21 100:11

100:12 163:20,21

247:13 251:9,10

253:18,20 274:15

274:16 313:19,20

314:10

chart 54:10,10

155:1,4 166:6

189:21 190:6

200:14 206:13

265:14,19 266:8

266:11 267:2

276:8 277:13

281:10,16 282:14

286:3

charts 99:8 207:2,6

264:1 266:22

281:9,11 282:9

check 40:6 206:9

229:10

checking 203:4

206:2,6

chevron 16:22

117:19

chevrons 15:14

17:13

chicken 272:3

choice 204:8

choices 80:19

choose 202:22

286:13 287:3

294:8

choosing 140:18

chose 79:6 142:1,21

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209:17

chosen 201:10

202:4 208:11

299:12

CHRIS 1:14

circle 77:17

circuit 228:13

circuits 237:13

citation 234:9

237:3

clarification 29:6

31:1 34:11 42:17

87:22 91:14 153:2

224:21 245:9

256:4

clarifications 241:2

clarified 30:12

clarify 12:10 25:1

26:1 39:18 54:21

137:13 186:6

204:10 246:10

266:15,19 284:17

291:2 321:17

clarifying 250:3

266:16 285:3

clarity 192:9

class 27:4,5 45:16

45:17,20,22 64:14

65:11,16 66:3,9

69:22 71:10 143:3

145:3

classes 24:20 25:6

27:3 46:2,8 55:1

61:9,11,17,20

62:3,7,18 63:14

64:15 65:13,19

66:13,14 68:2

69:17 70:7 74:16

78:15,16 140:15

141:5,22 193:17

194:8 200:11,15

208:5,7,9 249:5

294:16

classic 131:22

classifications

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classified 39:13

62:10,12,16 95:12

135:4

classify 25:5

clause 188:2

clean 233:18

cleaned 190:11

cleaning 131:12

clear 21:8 167:7

192:17 321:22

clearer 167:9

clearly 25:22

clock 109:7

close 49:4 173:3

207:17 210:6

248:21

closed 81:21 90:13

300:1

closer 102:5 150:21

211:16

closes 305:18

closing 3:20 9:6

82:14 320:3

324:20

coal-fired 254:13

Coast 60:6 251:17

code 90:5

coefficient 196:12

coefficients 194:15

coffee 24:7 109:11

213:16

coils 127:6

colleague 24:12

107:18

colleagues 130:7

column 167:2

194:19

combination 62:19

154:21 228:22

303:21

combinations 62:3

146:3

combine 239:15

combined 240:16

240:20 293:4

come 22:19 35:6

43:5 46:18 55:22

60:18 80:7 81:6

85:19 97:18

114:10 120:9

129:5 131:1 147:9

148:17 171:9

179:14 193:12

194:4 198:12

199:3 205:4,10

206:5 218:1

240:18,21 274:3

288:19 296:1

comes 58:4 98:16

118:7 229:7 244:9

247:19 269:5

286:18

coming 23:1 37:6

57:21 60:8,19

82:11 97:4 98:7

99:6 104:7 127:11

202:6 271:12

273:10 296:16,18

296:20 311:11

325:15

comma 48:7

comment 12:12,22

13:2,3,12 15:1,19

27:19 37:10 40:20

43:16 47:5,8 52:3

60:4 68:4,6 70:11

70:11 73:5 74:11

74:12 75:10 89:2

89:7 96:16 100:14

103:14 107:7,15

107:21 125:9

126:9 127:13,14

135:13 139:4

162:15 164:20

171:15 185:12

191:1,17 197:18

203:13 207:18

221:22 223:18

225:20 227:19

236:22 237:4

242:12,18 243:5

243:11 247:14,19

255:7 271:3

275:17 277:11

281:9 285:2

287:13 288:16

293:9 305:18,21

311:7 316:20

317:18 323:20

324:2

commented 278:16

comments 3:18

8:21 9:9 10:22

11:11 16:20 17:1

18:7 32:2 33:2

38:9 43:11,13

46:6,7 47:6 49:9

50:4 54:9 55:4,7

59:3 61:4 71:13

78:16 89:15 91:3

95:9 103:9 108:3

108:22,22 122:19

124:17 126:10

135:15 137:8

139:8 151:20

165:6 172:6 186:2

186:22 192:12,14

197:19 199:10

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228:11 234:2,22

236:18 248:12

249:15 252:7

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271:17 273:18

282:3 287:8,22

298:18,22 299:3

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318:1,2 319:21

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commercial 249:5

256:16 257:4

273:14 275:21

310:11

commercial/indu...

276:5

Commission

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committed 283:11

committee 73:21

177:16

commodity 161:22

common 141:11

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competitors 57:6

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complicated 44:10

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component 34:17

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components 107:2

131:10 160:13,17

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compose 78:16

compounding

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compressors 273:7

273:12,12 274:6

concentrate 136:9

concern 11:6 72:16

98:1 136:6 155:7

180:1 188:12

253:7 269:21

294:12,21 320:21

324:11,14

concerned 29:18

78:2 130:21 174:3

179:1,3 220:12

295:5 328:1

concerns 52:16

58:7 111:18 113:2

215:16 293:12

conclude 99:7

concluded 328:13

conclusion 35:7

60:18 189:3,16

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concurrently 14:8

condition 120:4,8

conditioning

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conditions 27:11

220:15

conduct 14:3 17:20

301:7,22 302:3

conducted 11:22

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289:18 290:11

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conducting 14:19

302:11

conductor 95:13,20

96:1,3 138:11,13

conducts 290:6

confidential 149:21

confidentiality

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configuration

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configurations

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confirm 45:4 74:21

199:14

confirmed 74:21

conform 236:14

confuse 86:6

confusing 64:17

190:10 264:16

confusion 72:10

89:12 255:16

264:1,11 267:6

Congratulations

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connection 271:21

271:22

consensus 326:9,15

326:17 327:3

consequence 14:7

309:12 310:12

314:19

consequences

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conservation 1:3

12:2 13:19 14:9

14:12 15:8 19:8

61:18 147:22

290:4 308:9

309:12 310:12

314:19

conservative

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consider 73:3

90:11 134:21

181:18 203:14

205:13 215:18

223:10 246:6

248:16 250:14,22

251:2 298:18,21

299:3

consideration 9:15

9:21 69:18 128:7

132:13 136:2

137:9 148:9

313:18

considered 37:4

53:21 69:20 87:7

95:21 104:19

106:22 107:16

117:17 135:5

139:3 142:12

147:4,7 178:10

196:7 205:7 243:7

251:1 258:21

301:3 315:22

318:12

considering 105:9

141:10 250:17

323:18

considers 248:19

consistency 198:10

208:12

consistent 60:14

254:20 269:2

consistently 249:18

254:22

consists 159:22

consolidate 307:12

consolidation

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305:9

consolidations

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constant 161:5

172:2 193:15

194:9 196:13,15

220:2 227:1,13

231:20

constitute 55:12

234:12

constrained 30:14

119:22 120:20

constraint 125:15

126:2,4 260:1

constraints 107:19

125:6 205:14

300:11,12

constructed 147:14

construction 26:21

27:1,10 90:11,13

consultant 183:15

consultation

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Consulting 1:16,18

1:19 2:13 7:5

11:20

consumed 232:14

consumer 23:14

61:16 153:20

208:8,12 216:4

218:7,10,12,13

219:16,21 255:21

258:11 268:13

299:1 311:5

consumers 122:20

241:19 242:2

243:13 290:21

291:10

consuming 229:2

consumption 240:4

260:19 308:8

consumptive

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contact 131:1

154:17

contacted 291:1

contacting 307:2

contained 12:19

17:9 26:2 168:16

contend 79:14

CONTENTS 3:1

context 134:20

continue 8:15

38:22 188:13

189:13 270:7

continued 271:2

294:3

continuing 52:22

117:11 192:19

304:13

continuous 27:1

contractor 226:2

226:13,16 241:13

256:12 302:1

contractors 95:11

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controller 98:20

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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conveyor 271:19

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cooling 107:4 139:1

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copper 80:22 95:22

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copy 7:12 40:6

core 84:14 95:13

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Corporation 2:3,4

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corporations

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233:17 243:17

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correcting 163:10

correctly 49:2

88:17 209:7

233:11 312:16

correlation 207:4

correspond 65:4

corresponding

88:19 168:18

195:4 196:10

cost 3:12 8:15

23:11,15 104:20

118:5,7,8,9

121:17,19,21

122:7,16 123:2

127:19,22 129:10

130:11 140:6

146:10 148:7

149:22 159:16

160:9,16 164:2

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167:12 168:7

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184:9 185:16

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218:2,9 219:17,19

220:2,4 222:13

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226:2,7,8,10,16

226:19 239:10,12

239:13,17,19

240:1,1,21,22

241:14 242:15

243:1,2 245:9,19

246:19 247:9

248:4,9 251:5,15

251:16 254:11

256:2,8,9,15,17

256:19,22 257:2

258:5,13,19 259:5

259:10,12,16,22

260:7,8,9,13,14

260:15,17,18,20

261:1 262:10,22

263:3 264:13

267:2 268:12

269:6,13 271:6

279:3,4,13,13

281:1,4 282:22

291:9 292:17,19

298:11,20 299:5

299:14 305:5

costing-out 247:6

costly 79:21 80:22

costs 23:12,13

104:8 122:20

123:5,9 127:19

146:14,21 147:10

150:4 159:14,19

159:20,22 160:3,4

160:5,11,11,12,21

161:4,15 163:2,3

163:12 164:3,11

165:8 167:19

168:22 178:11

182:16 196:3

208:21 215:19

216:17 217:22

219:22 220:1,9,12

220:16,17 222:1

222:11,16 223:10

224:3,10,13

225:13,18 234:2

239:11 240:6,9

242:20 243:4,6,12

251:14 256:10

260:21 263:2,16

290:20 291:13

298:2 300:6 305:7

311:4,4,11,12

cost-benefit 185:6

186:9 202:13

cost-efficiency

139:22 140:11

143:9,13,15

cost-estimating

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cost-wise 203:3

264:5

counsel 20:14

count 250:12

countries 130:9

country 55:17

234:13 280:20

322:12

couple 16:19 24:9

110:15 118:20

162:1,13 193:13

227:22 301:7

324:22

course 23:4 113:19

149:18 152:11

169:20 176:17,20

182:7 217:7

297:12

courtesy 5:6

cover 11:7 48:17

146:20 214:9

220:3 312:15

326:1,5 328:3

coverage 25:2,13

43:12 45:12 46:10

47:15 48:11,16,20

50:6,7 51:4 52:17

55:6

covered 18:14 25:5

37:14,21 38:6

45:17,18 46:13,15

46:22 51:2 53:7

53:21 55:11 56:9

70:22 114:3,4,5,6

114:7,15 141:18

155:22 156:9

234:11 265:12

276:22 296:8

319:2 320:12,16

320:18,22 321:3,7

322:2 327:14

328:6

covers 49:2 70:1

215:20 267:19

310:17

crazy 162:1

create 66:6 143:20

144:1 163:7,12

195:12 204:12

205:4 220:9 299:1

299:13 315:14,15

created 159:12

309:11

creating 212:6

312:13

credit 319:5

credits 318:14,15

318:21

criteria 28:18

61:12 117:13,16

117:21 118:11

119:13 122:15

125:4 145:19

175:19 179:6

196:21 323:15,21

327:7,11

critical 140:17

cross 299:22

cross-sectional

96:2 138:12

crystal 164:14

CSCR 62:9 63:1,13

64:17 141:1,9

142:15 194:12

195:2 283:19

CSIR 62:9 63:1,13

64:16 141:1,8

142:11,21 181:19

194:12 195:1

207:13 262:15

264:7 283:19

284:3,17,19,21

CSIRs 283:22

CSL 193:11 200:10

201:3,5,8,9,16

207:8,12 209:19

238:8 265:2 266:4

266:4,5,5,10

281:1,2,2,10,21

CSLs 192:2

cumulative 168:2

292:22 293:7

301:5 302:14

curious 40:10 59:6

72:3 93:3 151:8

162:6 204:1

207:18

current 25:11,18

26:4,8,10 27:15

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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curve 146:6 158:1

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curves 118:8

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cusps 136:14 158:1

customer 28:10,19

34:9 77:2,13,17

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customers 78:2,4

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C-face 271:20

D

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Dain 2:6 5:21

Dale 2:4 5:16 76:11

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83:15 84:6 85:15

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185:10,11 223:7,8

225:20 244:1,2

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247:19 273:22

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Dale's 87:14

Dan 6:2 322:4,5

324:3

DANIEL 2:13

data 12:13 15:19

17:5 25:8 47:11

54:9,15 66:7

71:14 73:21 74:5

89:21 90:2,5,7

92:17 97:5 99:2

148:14 150:8,17

173:18 176:4

183:2 196:9

199:14 202:22

216:12 225:6,6,11

226:6 228:2,6,22

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246:3 247:11

252:8 262:5 266:9

267:1 269:15

273:18 278:1,2

280:17 288:10,12

290:18 298:19,22

299:4 313:4 318:3

323:13,21 324:5

325:18 327:19,20

date 12:13 19:2,22

20:8,9 305:11

Daugherty 2:6 5:11

5:11 20:22,22

21:12,12 22:6

30:22,22 31:8,8

31:17 39:2,2,20

41:17,17 49:11,11

51:14,14 52:8,8

52:18,21,22 63:5

63:5 64:1,1,22,22

66:18 67:3,3

70:10 73:14 74:13

87:21 96:20,20

99:17,17 100:10

101:2,2 108:9,10

116:17,18 118:18

118:18 120:22,22

136:5,5 144:5,5

146:18,18 156:4,4

156:20,20 157:4

158:7,7 166:9,9

172:8,8,16,19

188:1,1 191:5,5

191:21,21 195:10

195:10 196:18,18

198:16,16 201:19

201:19 209:2,2

210:12,12 220:20

220:20 221:5,9,13

221:17 228:16,16

229:22,22 231:6,6

232:11 235:15,15

236:3 238:4,4,17

260:4,4 261:2,2,9

286:2,2,9 310:15

310:15 312:4,4,12

day 7:8 9:2 11:8

21:8 109:18 114:8

300:10

days 273:4 324:22

deal 41:13 110:19

111:1 165:7

227:20

dealing 52:10 67:8

110:16 136:15

251:12 294:9

deals 194:3

dealt 254:12

debate 112:14

debated 253:15

debating 113:15

decade 324:13

December 14:22

15:18 18:16

decide 45:16 130:4

decision 18:9 128:5

decision-making

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deck 139:9

decreased 260:19

decreases 187:18

decreasing 96:6

138:15

define 141:4

186:18

defined 105:21

131:17 132:8

154:8 188:11

193:20 200:15

290:19

defines 26:16

defining 144:18

188:4 193:11

definite 26:12 40:3

51:10 91:9 114:4

272:14

definitely 13:6

170:4 203:13

definition 25:13,15

26:3 27:14,20

31:5 36:20 38:1

39:5 45:19 47:20

49:15,21 53:9,11

63:9,10 65:2,7

71:11 86:2,14

91:6,10 105:18

189:18,19 218:21

230:3 232:10

definitional 50:5

degree 125:9 246:3

degrees 126:7

delivery 272:7

delta 187:14,18

188:10,19 189:4

190:4 225:3

deltas 100:16 188:4

demand 308:9

demonstrate 140:1

demonstrates

228:5

Department 1:1,10

1:13,14,15,15,17

1:18 4:8 11:3

12:21 13:3,4 18:4

19:17 23:9,15

24:22 46:6 48:20

49:5,22 53:3 54:8

56:17 61:11 62:6

65:12,14 70:5

73:6,17 89:18

95:4 96:22 98:2

104:17 105:9

106:22 107:8,11

122:18 123:4

127:20 128:2

134:21 136:7

137:7 147:21

149:20 150:15

153:6 163:6 165:7

165:10 186:2

189:8 190:18

191:1,7,17,18

192:6 195:21

196:3 197:7,18

198:2,12 199:9,10

208:4,11,19 210:3

210:9,18 211:4,12

215:6,10,18 217:1

217:6,10 222:2,5

224:3,7,16,19

225:17 226:5,9

227:12,16,19

228:10 233:6

234:17 237:8

239:18 240:8,13

242:6,8 248:11,14

248:19,22 249:7

249:20 250:4,12

251:7 253:17

257:11 258:12

259:3 262:4 265:6

266:16 269:10,14

271:8 273:18

279:7,17 281:20

282:3 283:11,18

286:17,20 287:3

288:19,20 298:6

298:16 308:11,15

310:1 313:3

315:20 316:12

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 338

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Department's

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depending 24:6

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depreciation 160:2

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depth 193:16

derivation 229:11

derived 199:3

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describe 8:9 182:6

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described 23:12,19

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describes 30:5

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describing 216:7

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descriptive 67:2,4

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design 32:22 66:6

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107:19 108:7

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133:6 134:9,14

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161:7 171:20

177:3 178:22

179:9 180:4,5

181:15,16,22

184:5,15,16 197:1

197:11 198:20

199:16 209:9,14

209:20 210:16,20

210:20 211:3,4,6

212:5 261:10,15

261:17,22 262:6

264:2 267:3,3,4

300:11

designation 76:5

designed 26:11,13

27:8,21 28:16

29:7 31:20 32:5

32:11 35:13 38:17

72:4 115:20

237:16

designing 119:14

designs 21:6 66:7

81:22 99:22

104:21 107:2

123:1 144:3,8

145:20 146:1

147:13 151:22

153:14,17 159:12

159:12 171:20

173:11 175:19,22

180:22 186:10,17

187:1 197:8,12

201:22 205:10

208:14 210:7

211:13,15,21

212:2

design-based

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design-design

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desired 51:20

desk 7:14

detail 11:8 23:19

37:13 145:14

215:9 271:9 282:8

301:3,15

detailed 7:22 47:9

details 172:11

279:8

determination 14:5

14:8 25:9 37:11

37:12,15 40:15

53:6 54:2 56:10

73:18 88:17 90:1

90:12 95:8 137:5

140:20 142:12

145:11 215:21

216:22 217:6

257:13,17 271:9

271:13 278:3

286:10,14

determine 24:19

117:13 143:7

198:21 216:2

determined 87:4

116:1 262:21

determines 13:21

determining 17:22

48:10 216:4

develop 94:10

104:17 143:14,21

159:17 187:6

303:15 304:3,14

developed 104:21

139:22 140:9

145:16 146:1

159:11 167:13

194:17 304:5

developing 112:9

140:11 159:14

196:3

development 169:2

302:8,9

diagram 15:7 17:7

117:19 216:20

238:13 239:9

289:15

diameter 79:20

80:16,20 82:4,8

82:14,16 83:2,8

85:4 86:10 89:5

128:19 158:15,18

158:19 159:5,7,9

172:21 173:8

294:16

diameters 135:6

diamond 18:20

diecast 95:22

138:10 161:8

difference 40:11

74:6 79:15 83:9

84:22 89:8 99:15

149:11 224:8

225:3 260:6,12

263:8 273:8

differences 84:1

85:12,18 100:15

100:21 165:7

237:15

different 18:3 20:8

34:2,4 39:10 46:2

51:8 61:15,19,20

65:15,21 69:19

71:3 72:11,15,17

72:19 73:22 74:7

77:1,4 82:4 85:13

88:12,12 97:9

100:5 112:17

114:14,15 128:16

128:18 143:1,2,7

148:17,18 156:8

156:11 158:22

164:10,10 173:12

187:20 188:4

190:1,21 191:3

193:11 194:8

197:2,3 201:16

207:5 208:3,5,7

209:22 217:3,8

236:5 237:16

242:1,3 245:16

249:13 267:1

268:5 271:7,11

277:21 280:2

305:20 311:13

differentiate 79:6

differentiation

79:4

differently 48:13

difficult 102:18

104:1 159:9

296:14

difficulty 172:20

294:10

digit 38:4

dimension 50:15

50:17,20 124:9,10

124:12 125:7,8

153:7 294:17

dimensions 50:22

51:6 53:5 123:12

124:3,12 135:5

158:12

dioxide 251:6

315:6,7

direct 13:18 62:13

160:1,1,4,4 216:9

218:22 302:13

305:7 309:14

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federal 15:13,17

17:1 18:15 59:7

72:5 256:21 322:2

feed 272:7

feedback 13:6

177:20 211:20

feeds 117:20

feel 30:17 104:22

113:4 164:15

179:11 204:22

223:18 240:12

305:12

feet 50:19 86:12

felt 105:4 155:15

fewer 294:7

fifth 170:12 292:22

figure 190:2 228:17

317:4

figured 141:19

figures 93:19 94:1

file 168:13

fill 129:19 130:3

154:1,5,8

final 3:18 8:21

15:12 18:6,9,9

19:2,12,12,15

21:5 37:12 55:7

108:3 145:20

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 343

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financial 168:11

305:6

find 12:17 13:7

30:1 40:2 44:11

71:4 79:10 99:18

100:5 101:22

103:2 104:1

120:19 125:19

173:8 176:3 177:7

196:20 205:12

209:20 234:9

261:4 264:15

283:5

finding 130:19

finds 234:11

finest 64:14

finish 96:18 257:7

finished 233:21

firm 216:11

first 13:13 31:2,17

32:10 45:21 49:14

52:3 67:14 108:14

119:6 122:4

133:13 139:20

140:10 141:16

146:10 148:10

154:3,4 189:19

193:19 204:22

205:7,8 228:1

252:11 261:19,19

266:2,3 290:7

291:6 293:13

298:6 301:8

fit 9:10 10:8 22:22

52:7 53:17 87:17

121:8 123:16,18

129:8 147:1

152:21

fitting 63:11 78:5

five 20:14,18 34:21

35:4 48:17 55:5

55:12 69:7,11

71:22 83:16 84:3

92:4 94:18,20

115:18 146:1

162:10 207:5,5

238:1

five-eighths 158:16

159:4,8

five-horse 115:14

five-horsepower

69:4

five-year 19:21

163:7

fix 231:5

fixed 84:13 160:11

160:12 226:19

292:18

flange 275:12

flat 259:19,22

flexibility 65:15

flights 214:6

floor 13:11 109:11

213:16

flow 15:7,16 17:7,8

17:16 128:2

238:13 239:9,10

240:6 241:2

289:15 301:10

flux 97:11,15

focus 114:18

292:16 322:18

focused 111:3,7

140:22

focusing 68:10

95:20 322:22

folks 47:8 59:21

110:4 206:7

261:14

follow 38:11 52:5

66:17 85:11 87:21

88:22 176:12

180:12 198:15

235:16 238:16

253:9 312:3

321:12

followed 8:1 89:21

95:4 256:20

257:11

following 7:21 62:8

116:8 159:13

follow-on 66:19

134:11 246:9

follow-up 54:20

89:2 230:1 252:6

font 166:6

food 272:10,11

foot 50:19 82:7

footnote 103:12

forced 58:11

forecast 224:1

249:12

foregoing 109:22

328:12

foreign 292:5

forget 109:19

176:14

forgive 93:2

forgot 108:12

forks 24:21

form 249:2,3

263:11

format 9:11

formed 131:20

Forrestal 109:9

213:5

forth 155:20

157:11 287:10

forward 12:15 18:5

23:16 43:4 54:18

67:10 78:10 90:8

90:16 95:18

106:19 128:5

255:18 270:13

278:4 286:15

328:7

found 37:20 100:2

100:3 171:21

174:12 181:21

231:12 290:13

four 15:13 55:5

68:10 73:22 87:2

90:22 94:16 95:12

101:8 117:21

118:11 125:3

128:16 141:14

142:1 144:19

170:9 174:5

175:16 195:14,16

195:22 196:20,22

201:21 237:22

293:17 308:4

Fourteen 18:3

fourth 75:12

170:12 236:12

266:5 292:8

four-pole 93:10

112:8 141:17

173:10 193:22

194:14 195:8

196:8,9 197:3,3,5

197:10 198:3,19

199:15,18,20

200:19 201:13

fraction 234:12,15

234:18 237:10

241:20,21 242:1

fractional 33:12

34:2 57:18 76:18

78:4 80:14 81:21

84:9 86:18 114:11

115:5,21,22

129:11 196:4

245:3 274:12

fractionals 44:2

frame 25:19 26:5

48:10 50:12 51:7

51:9 53:12,20,20

54:11 68:13 69:4

69:19 70:2,5,17

70:19 71:5,6,9

73:7 74:7 75:6,7

75:20 76:5,7 77:1

77:4,5,12,14 78:9

79:5,6 80:16,20

80:20 81:3 82:6,9

84:2,11,12,13,14

84:19 85:2,13,18

88:4,18 115:15,19

116:1 127:6

128:16,18,22

129:4 143:1,8

151:10,13 152:14

191:12,13,19

192:4 196:5

200:13,16 202:20

223:10 226:22

frames 38:4 71:3

77:21

framework 14:13

15:10 20:12 68:19

95:10 107:9

215:16

frame-ish 214:7

framing 215:17

free 48:11 204:22

223:18 240:12

freight 223:12,16

223:17 224:3,10

224:13 225:13,18

frequency 98:20

102:10

friction 95:14

106:15 107:1

227:9 231:18

friction/windage

232:2

FRIDAY 1:5

FRIEDRICHS

1:15

fringe 165:21

front 231:2 278:9

fuels 112:2

fuel-type 112:3

full 103:2 125:2

159:19,22 160:3

165:2,12 169:10

173:18 174:4

229:1 230:14,17

230:19 235:10

298:12

fully 165:16

full-load 177:5

179:13

full-service 213:12

function 184:5

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 344

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295:15

furthest 236:7

future 45:15 148:6

249:13,21 252:21

252:22 320:15

futures 294:14

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gain 102:17 170:14

game 24:13

gap 96:6 97:16

119:4,6,11 125:6

125:18,19 126:2

130:18 138:15

154:12,13,15

155:1

gaps 130:18 131:5

gas 273:13 317:19

gather 150:17

202:22

gathered 288:1

303:19

gauges 96:4 154:22

gear 112:7

gears 94:8

general 20:14

25:17 26:3,8,22

27:14 30:10 32:20

33:9 34:1 35:15

35:19 36:15,16,20

37:22 38:13 39:6

39:13 41:7,7 42:9

45:19 46:19 47:7

48:12 49:16,19,21

51:12 76:21 90:10

91:10 105:18

114:2 138:2

144:16 169:1

185:1 244:16

272:15 274:7

275:13 276:11

316:19

generalize 99:14

generally 65:14

231:18 234:4

generate 25:10

201:16

generated 149:9

generation 251:20

309:2

generators 112:1

272:19

gentleman's 152:2

geometry 96:6

Germany 58:4

getting 19:16 76:15

123:8 172:22

177:20 178:2

212:9 220:22

242:16

give 40:21 41:4

81:19 102:3,10

105:11 113:22

146:8 149:2

166:12 174:20

223:11 328:8

given 97:1 103:7

128:18 143:16

145:14 159:5

177:4 190:5

198:18 202:6

203:1 228:6 238:8

259:13 310:13

313:15 316:12

gives 18:2 19:13

51:6 159:20

239:22 240:5

303:22 308:13

giving 93:20

230:17

glad 23:2 38:7

156:18 214:4

Gloria 2:10 5:22

132:16 134:10

203:20,21 204:16

255:4,5

go 5:7 7:17 8:4 21:2

21:8 22:16 26:20

28:6,7 30:19 37:5

39:22 41:15 44:1

56:11 63:18 64:19

64:21 65:2 66:16

70:8 71:20 76:4

77:14 78:10 79:11

79:18 80:20 83:2

84:18,20 85:1

86:3 87:7,9,11

96:18 97:16 98:16

99:4 102:9 103:1

109:16 111:14

112:10 120:6

122:5,11 127:3,20

129:22 140:9

150:12,16 166:10

166:13 167:2,6

170:12 172:10,17

173:2 175:15

176:9 177:6

178:17 181:13

190:14 193:15

199:2,4 200:8

203:8 206:6

211:20 213:5,13

213:14 217:12

221:19 223:1

227:21 235:22

237:3 238:6,16

244:20 246:16

247:21 255:17

258:18 264:18

265:14 268:19

286:15 287:14

298:3,4 314:5

315:15 320:6

goal 83:4 87:18

128:19

goes 11:8 29:16

33:9,10,14 34:3,8

37:12 46:16 137:1

158:18 161:3

218:22 219:2

222:22 242:13

244:22 266:15

297:20

going 5:7 7:9,11

8:5,11 10:2,5 12:5

12:10,12 16:4

18:13 24:4 26:6

28:2 29:19 32:17

32:18 41:10 52:20

55:22 56:15 58:8

69:21 71:4 72:5,7

73:1,2 74:22 77:7

77:16 85:16 89:1

93:11 98:13 104:4

104:4,8 110:6,11

112:22 113:7,9

115:2 116:4

118:21 119:1

121:12,19,21

124:18 126:4

127:22 135:19

138:10 139:16

144:7 162:7,10,11

162:12 164:8

173:6,13 178:17

180:5 188:9 192:2

198:22 199:1

200:7 206:6 209:3

214:8,15 221:18

221:19 223:3

224:9 229:17

233:14 236:18

239:4 241:11

246:1 251:2

255:11,12 258:16

264:2,12 267:13

267:14 270:4,13

270:16,16 275:20

276:6 306:11

307:1

good 4:3,9,21 11:20

22:13 29:14 32:15

37:9 56:12 64:3,9

68:5 70:4 79:18

81:9 98:18 109:18

125:2 133:5

139:14 164:20

171:5 198:3 207:4

220:11 224:20

228:7 236:22

246:6,22 297:19

312:15 314:8,8

324:22 327:19

goods 219:17 220:2

220:4

government 301:9

307:14 318:17

grade 160:22 161:1

grades 96:10,11

138:17 155:16

gradual 278:15

gradually 279:15

graph 154:22 170:5

170:7 187:13,18

194:17 228:1

236:15 261:6

262:12 278:8,20

280:22

graphic 44:6

159:18

graphical 263:11

graphing 146:5

graphs 227:22

228:1 287:9

great 37:12 110:19

111:1 124:16

greater 11:8 23:19

41:13 42:10 69:2

69:8 158:19

180:17 229:5,6

282:2 319:3

greatest 146:9

greatly 153:8

green 16:22

greenhouse 317:19

GRIM 301:10

302:8 304:4,6,7

304:11

ground 213:14

214:10 265:3

270:8

grounded 92:18

grounding 113:22

group 63:11,12,12

63:13 64:2,9

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
(202) 234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 345

groupings 63:1

groups 95:13,19

293:5 299:8 300:2

300:8

grow 116:3

growth 90:7 249:11

249:11 270:12

271:2 278:4

guess 32:3 57:5

59:17 67:5 70:10

72:1,16 76:5 78:9

83:10 123:15

132:18 133:4

134:12,15 150:3

169:21 182:9

190:22 191:6

198:17 204:21

232:11 236:4

241:7 255:7 261:3

277:11 296:12

311:6 312:5,7

323:2

guesstimate 213:2

guidance 69:7

288:19

guide 290:12 302:9

304:14,19,19

305:3,14 306:6

guidelines 30:5

92:4 159:13

guides 150:15

290:16

GUPTA 1:16

guy 33:20 114:11

guys 12:13 204:2

gyrations 162:8

H

H 1:20 2:6

half 42:3,7,8 88:8,9

91:1 115:15,17

142:5 159:6

172:13 181:9

202:5,10 203:2,4

235:19 254:9

284:20

half-horse 45:13

85:20

half-horsepower

74:2 75:21 76:1,2

142:7 264:6

half-inch 87:12

159:7 172:21

hall 109:12,16

hand 130:11

133:13 300:15

320:2

handed 189:22

handicapped 71:4

handle 28:12 46:3

82:22

handout 238:8

handouts 325:12

hand-winding

130:6

hanging 108:16

Hansen 2:6 5:21,21

happen 13:8

142:17 244:12

270:5 297:1 303:7

happened 38:5

52:9 74:1 91:21

148:19

happening 81:5

92:1 289:13

happens 304:8

305:17

happy 48:15

hard 252:3 254:4

260:1

harmonics 157:21

head 80:1 212:12

headed 123:8

health 118:4,14

327:13

hear 30:16 33:2

41:10 105:13

327:2

heard 81:11 120:4

326:13,16 327:1

hearing 59:2 286:4

heating 2:10 276:5

heating/ventilation

274:7

heavier 131:7

height 82:7 86:13

119:16 124:11

125:7 138:19

155:11,13

held 168:13 292:4

325:8

Hello 289:10

help 15:7 17:20

18:12 77:13

helped 113:18

143:20 166:22

helpful 10:11 47:12

89:14 124:17

135:16 165:10

186:1 247:12

288:1,5 321:16

327:22

helps 292:16

heroine 325:14

hertz 42:2 60:15,15

98:17,22 102:6,16

hierarchy 204:15

high 26:20 69:1

82:17 102:10

170:4 174:19

179:13,16 223:3

249:11 276:20

294:1,15

higher 13:5 21:20

102:7 122:22

130:5 131:4 220:8

261:1 291:8

315:16

higher-loss 102:8

highest 141:16

260:2

highlight 237:8

248:8 289:16

highlighted 200:17

highly 176:18

high-efficiency

138:20

high-frequency

102:15

high-volume

129:21 154:7

hindrance 22:1

Hink 2:7 5:15,15

20:7,7 67:15,15

89:1 135:18,18

206:10,10,17,21

275:16,16 276:2,4

277:7 315:10,10

Hiperco 98:3 101:4

102:2 105:3 170:3

170:22 183:16

184:11

historical 25:8

163:16

historically 33:7

hit 278:13

hitting 59:20

hog 272:3

hold 10:1 254:4

Holly 36:3

HOLT 2:7

home 325:21

hope 4:5 7:12 110:8

214:5

hopefully 12:7

72:21 149:10

Hopkins 1:16

282:19,19 283:6

Hornquist 2:8 6:11

6:11 43:14,15

169:17,17 171:6,6

182:12,12,19

183:5,5 184:18,18

212:13,14,20

horse 86:18

horsepower 26:19

33:8 42:1 43:22

52:13,14 53:2,14

53:18,19 61:22

62:1,4,11,12,19

67:18,20 68:14,17

69:2,3 70:19,20

71:22 72:12 73:9

75:8 76:6,18 78:5

93:4,7 126:18

129:11 141:2,10

141:11 142:5,9,10

142:15,16,18,22

175:4 176:14

177:15 181:9

187:9,16 190:21

193:20 196:5

229:18 245:3

284:20

horsepowers 68:3

84:10 192:3 195:4

294:18

hospitals 272:18

hour 165:14 213:4

213:20

hours 111:10

273:11,14,19

280:11,13,17

housing 152:15,16

152:21 153:7

Hoyt 2:9 5:18,18

92:12,14,14

huge 256:1

humor 297:15

hundred 62:1

hundredths 154:14

hurts 296:4

hysteresis 102:8

I

ice-maker 33:19,20

ID 158:21 173:13

idea 170:15 184:20

184:22 211:18

ideas 58:22 78:15

165:9 225:6

identifiable 299:8

299:16

identification

63:10,17,18

identified 230:6,7

230:13 232:22

291:5,13 292:2

293:12

identify 25:3 95:4

95:16 182:9 290:3

301:2

IEC 43:18 51:18,19

53:4,12,16,20

54:2 55:2 58:2,4

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
(202) 234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 346

80:12

IEC-rated 52:7

IEEE 103:2 176:9

IE3 80:11,18 81:7

IHP 33:8 114:3

115:9

II 43:19,19 44:1

illustrated 263:12

illustrates 216:21

259:12 262:12

279:2

illustrating 279:5

280:1 281:17

imagine 78:12

immediately 272:5

immense 183:20

impact 3:14,15

8:17,18 21:5 22:8

22:18 62:13,14

78:3 79:20 127:15

133:10 135:7,7,21

135:22 147:8

148:3 149:18

215:1 224:10,13

241:8,12 242:22

243:20,21 247:9

249:22 250:14

251:21 252:13

256:2 258:10

267:17,19,20

268:2,7,10 277:2

280:20 281:3

282:18 283:21

289:8,12,17,20,22

298:12,13,13,15

299:3 300:15,19

301:8,9,22 303:5

307:14 308:2,5,21

309:5,9,10,16,19

310:2,2,16 311:1

312:17 313:1,13

316:15,20,21

317:6 318:7,8

319:7,10,11,18

impacting 104:10

impacts 23:9 55:20

118:2,3,14 128:2

131:3 140:7

224:14 242:3,9

249:19 253:6,15

255:1 281:17,19

282:1 285:11

290:3,21,21 299:8

300:21 301:5,19

305:7,8,10 309:14

309:18,20 310:5,6

311:15,22 313:5,7

313:16 314:18

315:21 318:9

319:15

impending 293:3

implemented 146:4

146:8

implementing 81:7

291:8

implication 198:18

implications

228:12

implicit 319:13

implying 67:22

important 9:11

25:7 42:18,19

43:12 51:17 61:18

65:14 71:7 75:2

78:17 83:13

108:14 110:16

112:20 120:4,5

129:10 156:17

196:21 198:17

215:8,9 223:17

234:20 238:19

305:12

imported 59:8

295:7

impose 21:19 293:1

improve 94:11

101:21 107:1

119:7 125:10,20

145:5 199:11

210:9

improved 96:11

138:17 155:16

177:18

improvements

212:5

improving 107:12

ImSET 310:21

311:14,16,18

312:19 313:14

314:4

inadvertently

137:3

inch 101:5 124:4

126:3 130:19

138:17 154:15

158:16 159:4,6,8

173:3

inches 50:15,21

include 49:8 53:11

57:11 95:22

121:17 122:16

158:9 215:10,12

223:16,20,21

226:2 227:7

230:21 234:22

248:4 249:19

262:22 269:2,10

269:11 276:12,21

298:8,11 302:10

303:15 311:3

318:12

included 36:15

46:9 117:17 123:2

185:19 186:7

210:15 215:14

224:3,4 226:10

263:5 286:6

299:20 305:3

311:1 313:13

includes 35:1 302:6

302:7 305:16

308:21 319:12

including 57:2 95:6

123:4 135:5 154:9

215:16 226:17

255:13 311:13

314:20

inconsistencies

208:8

inconsistency

238:12

incorporate 317:3

incorporated 23:14

131:16 252:21,22

incorporates

249:21

increase 21:14

84:16 85:3 86:3

122:4 125:13

146:7,9 152:15

157:17 161:12

169:21 177:22

181:12 220:5,5

243:13 250:18

261:1 263:15

269:6 278:15

279:12 311:2

increased 85:4 87:6

140:3 146:6 178:1

179:8 224:8,12

268:8 269:13

279:3,14 292:18

311:7

increases 154:19

220:2 278:14

280:3 292:17

300:10

increasing 83:5

96:2,3 119:10

121:4 124:8

125:19 129:18

134:16 138:12,13

146:1 153:18

186:15,16 247:10

280:4 292:19

incremental 216:17

219:15,20,20,22

220:3 222:6,10,12

222:19 223:2,6

224:22 248:1

250:19 258:11

263:2 311:4

incrementally

247:10

increments 151:10

incur 23:12 220:16

291:19

incurred 122:20

incurs 222:16

Independence 1:10

187:11

independent

200:16 230:20

231:17 232:1,22

independently

208:6

indicate 189:22

229:1

indicated 59:16

98:12,15 228:18

indirect 165:19

167:20 309:20

310:4

individual 154:2

293:5

individually 182:9

204:12

induction 25:19

26:4 34:13,14,16

34:22 35:22 44:21

48:13 90:10

105:18 106:9

132:8 142:5,6

155:16 270:7

induction-run 35:2

35:8 38:3 41:22

43:2 90:20 91:19

134:3 181:9

207:14 209:17

280:6

industrial 28:7

180:14 249:5

256:16 257:3

275:21

industry 76:20

125:8 165:19

166:1 167:14,15

168:19 189:11

192:10,15,18

257:16 272:15

274:7 292:9 293:6

301:10,11,18

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305:9

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

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industry's 30:13

industry-wide

302:12

inflation 163:10

influence 119:11

influences 100:1

information 16:12

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63:15 73:15,19

88:16 92:18 94:4

96:22 97:7 98:9

110:5 120:17

132:2 149:22

152:12 162:20

164:15 166:11

168:12,15 170:20

173:17 176:5

179:8,9 180:21

183:8,10,13 189:9

191:12 195:18,21

196:22 198:12

201:21 203:3

221:3 224:15

225:15 234:21

239:10 240:13

249:9 279:22

282:1 287:22

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298:19 303:12,18

303:20 304:9

307:8,10,11,17

308:18 313:4,15

315:3 318:3

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informative 4:5

inherent 134:9

initial 304:6

initially 104:11

initiated 14:8,13

input 17:5 23:16

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152:11 161:16

162:15,21 223:12

241:18 256:4

257:7,16 268:11

268:14 304:5

308:16 310:8

311:19 325:2

inputs 159:16

160:9 215:17

216:10,10 240:16

256:7 257:5,8,22

259:13 288:11

326:13

inserting 127:6

insertion 154:8

inside 213:19

install 118:1,13

123:10 130:20,21

132:1 138:21,22

226:3

installation 154:9

217:22 218:9,12

226:8,10,18,19

227:1 239:17,19

256:9,10 258:5,14

258:17,19 262:22

263:3

installed 123:13

175:5 218:2

239:22 240:1,21

269:6

installing 226:14

226:15

instance 177:12

251:22

Institute 2:10,12

6:10 16:1 180:11

instructions 283:1

insufficient 132:2

insulation 27:3,4

45:15,17,20,22

46:2,8,17

insurance 167:21

integral 33:8 34:3

43:22 52:13 53:2

53:18 60:5 61:22

68:17 70:20 72:4

73:9 175:4 177:14

192:3

integrity 131:19

intend 9:7

intended 138:2

intensity 312:20

intent 51:2 149:6

153:18

interactions 204:2

204:19

intercept 285:14

interest 101:17

102:6 169:2

256:19

interested 17:6

59:2,20 80:6

122:19 215:13

224:11 225:14

234:19 237:14

248:13 281:22

283:12 300:10

315:21 326:18

interesting 136:16

162:11 164:15

173:17 235:17

326:14

interface 66:10

interior 172:21

interlude 297:22

298:1

intermediate

208:22

internalize 251:14

international 80:12

internationally

80:11

interpolate 281:20

interpolated

210:21 211:4

interpolation

208:20

interpret 48:12

191:1,17

interpretation 31:4

31:7,11 32:16

46:8,9 49:8 51:3

188:7,17 199:6

interpretations

47:22

interpreted 88:15

105:22

Interpreting 48:18

interprets 49:6

interview 150:14

151:2,4 290:12,16

292:15 302:9

304:14,18,19

305:3,14 306:2,6

313:22

interviewed 307:7

interviews 150:6

293:11 301:14

302:4,11 304:10

304:12,21 305:17

305:22 307:4,12

introduce 5:3

67:10 141:20

157:21 158:1

189:12 319:4

introduction 188:8

introductions 3:3

4:12,20 6:22

investigate 101:20

102:11 103:1

308:6 318:9

investigated 98:6

investigates 99:20

investigation 98:3

investment 290:20

invites 317:18

318:1

inviting 227:19

228:10

involved 28:14

80:4 176:22

in-house 66:7

iron 96:13 131:8,9

131:22

irrespective 152:16

issue 12:18 13:7,9

47:6 48:22 50:5

52:3 58:2,20 59:1

59:3,22 70:21

76:15 77:9 79:8

80:13 81:8 84:8

118:7 180:13

188:3 237:7,9

246:11 248:7

250:13 269:5

291:7,12 292:1,22

294:5,12 295:3

296:19 297:12

299:19 322:15

324:10

issues 9:2,10 11:5,6

12:20,21 13:4

47:14 50:7 59:17

78:3 86:6 153:7

155:8 179:5

290:19 291:5

292:7 296:6 305:8

317:12

Italy 58:4

item 3:2 31:2 73:14

119:4,15 121:18

166:14 214:16

226:11 272:10

itemized 143:21

items 108:13

135:15 137:1,8

138:4 158:10

160:16 166:18,20

193:2 221:2 273:6

iterations 205:10

J

J 2:12

jamming 155:8

JANUARY 1:6

Jeff 2:3 5:8 263:20

266:19

Jim 1:13 3:21 4:8

6:18 16:9 22:10

22:11 29:12 31:14

32:13 37:6,7 54:5

54:6 56:6,8

149:12,13,14

192:7 224:17,18

233:12 236:19,20

245:12,13 277:4

287:5,6 288:6

297:14 320:3

323:6,7

jobs 309:11

John 2:2,7 5:20

10:19 38:11,11,12

41:1,3 42:15,16

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 348

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John's 43:16

journey 325:21

July 14:5 19:1,18

303:4,7

jump 11:14,14,15

June 19:12,17

justified 14:1

323:17 327:9

justify 294:2

K

K 193:15 194:9,10

195:6,7,12

keep 8:5 9:16,22

52:20 66:7 85:16

107:12 157:10

174:18 206:6

215:6,7 236:19

267:5,13,14

keeping 44:14

kept 155:20

key 12:20 13:4

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kickoff 14:14

Kido 1:17 6:17,17

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kilowatt 53:13,19

kind 16:3 38:5

40:10,14 41:13

44:10 58:15 72:1

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93:3,6 97:7 111:5

111:7 113:22

116:5 162:6,11

164:13 242:13

273:1 274:2,9

324:1

Kitt 2:5 6:15

knew 205:7

know 29:18 32:8,17

33:21 40:12 44:7

58:3 67:22 70:12

72:3,8,10,14,22

73:1,2 75:19 76:4

76:13 80:2 85:8

85:19 91:22 93:5

108:13 111:12

112:20 121:1,16

129:5 134:18

150:10 162:5

178:10 182:2

183:9 185:13

189:2 192:11

205:21 207:7

223:10 224:7,11

237:2 251:17

255:20 266:11

269:20 285:13

297:18 305:20

314:5

knowing 11:7 89:5

110:22

knowledge 185:7

253:2 314:2

knowledgeable

179:12

L

L 82:10 230:7,12

230:16

Lab 282:20

labels 266:14 285:3

labor 130:11

143:22 146:12

160:1,4 165:13,14

165:16,17,20

168:3 169:4,8,9

222:12 226:3,8,10

226:17 227:1

239:19 258:14,15

Laboratory 1:17

1:20

lack 295:15

lady 114:19

lamination 82:3,5

89:6,11 98:8

101:5 103:22

104:3,7 127:11

133:18,19 138:21

160:21

laminations 86:9

86:11,15 96:12,13

98:16 101:9

103:20 138:18,19

157:15 315:14,18

language 13:15

15:4 47:19 321:20

large 33:13 71:22

90:20 186:15

265:6 323:1,10

larger 77:21 80:20

82:9,13 89:6

180:19 207:2

217:9 294:16,22

324:10

large-scale 153:22

lately 40:15

latest 298:18,22

299:4

Laughter 43:6,8

66:21 84:5 86:7

108:18 116:16

117:5 297:8 325:7

law 52:10 72:5

92:19 187:19

Lawrence 1:16,19

23:7 282:20

layman's 260:6

LCC 299:1

lead 194:15 306:14

322:13

leader 93:8

leads 173:7

leaning 46:12

learn 293:8

learned 83:10

304:10,11 307:13

least-cost 205:5,12

212:6

leave 108:16

213:10 294:4,8

leaves 323:1

leaving 214:6

led 174:11

left 117:7 209:14

261:7,7 266:3

leftover 279:15

left-hand 228:2

229:14,16

left-most 261:17,21

legislation 252:14

252:17

length 83:1 84:13

84:14 85:5,19,22

86:3 87:6 96:9

116:1 120:1 121:5

122:5 124:8,13

125:12,15 126:14

127:1 129:2,4

151:10,11 152:16

154:18 155:14

179:5 202:20

241:9,10 294:17

lengthen 80:19

161:10

lengthened 87:15

lengths 88:13 127:6

128:17,18 131:6

length-to-diameter

82:11

lesser 61:1

let's 24:15 25:12

37:5 38:11,22

41:15 94:21 109:4

110:3,4 212:10

214:3 217:12

257:20 317:15

level 17:22 64:15

65:16 76:1 77:15

80:17 127:20

135:22 155:1

170:12,13 180:5

187:15 188:6,16

188:20,21 194:6,7

195:1 200:18

201:3,4,5,7,9,11

201:11 202:8

203:8 207:13

209:9,18 210:1

213:14 228:13,14

237:17,18,19,20

237:21,21,22

238:1,2 239:12

242:19 256:11

259:9,18,20

261:11 262:15

263:4,17 279:20

281:3 286:21

287:1

levels 60:16 61:15

72:20 100:16,21

164:5 174:9

187:10 193:11

196:1,4,7,10

198:11,21 199:4

200:10 201:9,10

201:16,22 202:18

206:22 207:1,5,5

207:8 208:2,6,9

208:11,16,22

210:5 211:16,19

220:15 237:17

240:10 242:17

243:3 251:22

258:21 260:2,16

268:6 280:2

281:10 291:15

292:6 294:15

299:11 313:12

Lieberman-War...

252:12

life 219:5 243:19

273:2,3 281:1

282:21 298:1,11

298:20 299:5,14

300:6

lifetime 240:16,18

257:11 285:15

lifetimes 257:18

life-cycle 3:12 8:15

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 349

23:10,15 118:9

121:17 122:2,7

140:6 164:2

178:11 181:3

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248:9 256:2,8

259:5,10,12,16,22

260:7,8,9,11,13

260:14,15,19

262:10 268:12

271:6

lifted 29:2

light 273:13

lighting 175:8

likelihood 312:15

Likewise 207:12

limit 45:19 130:2

limited 101:16

197:12

line 18:13,21 19:8

20:5 46:15 50:18

84:4 114:22

127:10,21 291:17

316:17

linear 211:17

235:18

linearalization

189:17 195:14

linearalize 192:2

linearly 280:3

linked 283:6

list 94:10 138:10

150:16 185:19,20

277:18 316:3

listed 57:6 137:8

172:12 257:22

310:19

listen 9:21

listened 107:16

listing 245:20

literature 95:6

257:16

little 15:6,13 17:7

18:12 37:11 69:12

76:14 78:10 82:22

87:22 100:14

113:21 115:3

129:16 148:15

152:2 167:9 174:3

194:21 201:4

221:21 228:21

229:5 254:10,18

264:15 278:17

279:22 280:13

297:15 301:15

309:17

live 128:13 152:9

load 3:10 8:2 28:13

95:14,17 103:3,5

119:12 136:20

137:2 139:7

173:18 174:4

176:7,13,19

179:18 214:20

216:1 227:15

229:1,16 230:11

230:14,17,19,22

231:15,16 232:17

232:18,19 235:20

235:21 308:9

loading 228:5,7,10

230:8,9 231:9,14

235:5,5,8,10,10

235:11,12

loads 138:1

load-dependent

227:13,14 231:8

231:12

load-independent

230:14,21 232:9

232:15

locked 42:19

155:17,18 156:1,5

213:9

logarithmic 187:16

logic 288:4

logical 68:19

221:21

logistics 59:18

log-log 189:17

192:2

long 85:9 86:2

88:14 278:13

longer 20:17 79:19

82:17,18 83:2

85:2 87:9,16

123:12,13 124:14

131:6

longest 146:5

longstanding

149:19 324:14

look 10:7 21:16

23:3 30:6 41:5

43:4 49:5,22

62:22 63:3 68:18

93:15 102:19

118:8 119:3

124:11 127:4

128:13 129:17

139:6 150:21

158:12 172:15

173:7,22 175:21

178:22 179:15

186:11 191:22

204:11 207:12

215:15 225:4

231:2 249:20

252:9 253:12,19

254:6,14,17

255:19 270:3

273:11 288:17

296:22 303:11

304:22 313:5

316:5,11 319:7

324:1 325:15

328:7

looked 44:17 68:9

68:11,16 87:2,11

95:19 96:8 98:2

123:10 133:20

174:4,8 177:17

178:4 185:13

189:6 190:18

204:2,7 254:15

270:6

looking 21:22

28:10 32:4 64:5

68:8 71:19 72:2

72:13 78:18 79:1

87:10 89:3 101:16

101:21 106:19

107:12 116:6

130:9,10 140:21

161:21 167:8

177:2 183:9 185:8

188:9 189:4

202:15 204:18

207:8 212:5

218:19 254:22

265:18 271:4

277:1

looks 23:16 98:18

215:18 274:22

304:1,15 316:14

loop 210:6

loophole 49:4

lose 112:13 270:8

losing 60:22

loss 96:8 97:3,22

98:5,13 99:3

100:1,7 102:10

103:3,5,5 117:1

119:12 136:20

137:2 176:3,6,7,7

176:13,19 179:10

231:16,19,19

232:1,2

losses 95:12,13,13

95:14,15,21 96:22

97:17 98:10,13

100:16 106:16

107:1 131:13

139:7 174:1

177:11 179:20

187:9 188:9,10,15

188:17,22 189:1

189:10 190:15

227:6,8,9,9,10,12

228:3,12 229:3,15

229:15 230:12,13

230:14,21,22

231:8,12,13,16,17

232:3,8,8,10,15

232:17,18,21

234:2 237:10,12

239:2

lot 28:6 38:6 56:9

58:3 59:18 60:19

72:14 76:20 78:3

79:16 81:13,21

98:7 101:18,19

111:2 113:4

119:17 124:10

125:14 173:3

235:21 252:2

255:8,15 277:15

324:14 328:6

love 77:18,19

105:13

low 174:15 175:3

177:9 179:2,3

222:22 229:9

249:11 273:15

lower 76:7 181:1

201:4 260:21

269:21

lowered 157:20

lower-cost 296:2

lowest 88:14 201:3

low-cost 130:9

lubricant 107:3

138:22

lunch 8:3,7,9,12

110:8 206:7 212:9

213:4 214:5

luncheon 213:21

lunchtime 212:9

L2 232:3,16 233:3

M

M 2:6,11

machine 112:11

116:22 119:12

158:21 172:22

173:21 174:14

189:1 231:16

239:2 275:3

295:19

machinery 272:1

272:10 274:22

275:3

machines 173:10

magnet 96:15

106:5 111:21

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
(202) 234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 350

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270:9,19

magnitude 40:13

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MAHIMA 1:16

mailed 304:19

305:14

main 173:20

maintain 79:9

155:21

maintained 308:17

maintaining

294:13

maintenance 240:6

240:9

major 139:20

165:2,11 171:20

181:16 234:12,15

237:1 293:12

294:12

majority 119:21

120:20 247:20

293:16

making 88:17

127:6 134:6 137:4

288:22

manipulating 96:5

138:14 191:7

manipulation

191:11

manner 79:21

157:16 189:4

manufacturability

153:22 158:10

205:15

manufacturable

126:8 145:21

153:17

manufacture 8:18

32:19 126:6

130:20 132:1

179:1 298:12

304:16

manufactured

29:16 59:8 68:9

69:5 108:15

183:18

manufacturer 3:15

22:18 40:20 45:13

65:20 81:20 83:8

99:19 101:7 104:6

118:1,13 135:2

140:20 144:1

145:11 146:13,14

146:20 147:8

148:14 149:18

159:17,19,21

168:21 181:21

216:5 217:15,19

219:1 222:16

239:12,13,13

255:22 270:4

272:2 289:8,12,16

289:20,22 290:19

300:15,19 301:2,8

301:14,22 302:11

307:13 309:16

313:22 318:15

manufacturers

5:19 17:5 22:20

24:19 25:4,17

38:22 56:16,18

58:10,13 66:1

68:7,10 75:1,5

77:18 80:6 81:4,7

82:2 83:22 95:6

97:5,19 100:5

102:19 110:20

111:2,13 127:15

128:3,14 143:12

143:17 145:13

146:16 149:7,21

162:22 163:3,12

163:15 168:19

174:17 177:16

182:22 183:14

185:7,14 188:12

200:4 202:7,16

218:4,6 220:10,13

220:16 222:1,9

244:6 258:1 290:5

291:1,6,14,18

292:18 293:2,5,6

293:11,13,17,19

294:20 295:4,8,17

295:19 297:5

300:3,22 301:20

304:20 305:12

306:1 307:6

309:15 313:1

316:14

manufacturer's

140:2 148:3 155:9

169:10 182:16

306:3 322:20

manufacturing

130:22 131:11

133:7 145:1

242:15,22 243:6

263:16 303:5,13

304:1

many-fold 29:17

map 163:5

March 15:2 305:20

mark 1:15 233:16

marked 166:14,16

168:3 169:5

marked-up 169:8

market 3:6 7:18

23:21 24:2,15,16

24:17,18,22 30:1

33:10 34:3,7

55:13 56:19 57:15

79:2 91:21 93:7

94:8 113:8,18,19

141:12 142:13

177:22 183:11

186:13 202:19,21

216:7 248:16

252:19 262:5

290:18 292:4,9,12

292:13,20 293:16

293:21 294:4,9,19

319:13 323:11

marketed 102:14

marketing 95:6

121:13

marketplace 72:10

252:20 255:16

292:11

markets 92:1,2

161:22 314:2,2,5

market/tech 24:5

marking 166:18,19

marks 226:14

markup 3:10 8:2

165:22 166:3,3,12

167:5,16,18 168:5

168:9,11,21 169:3

214:21 216:15,15

222:10,14,18,19

222:20 226:3,16

239:14 247:5

256:12

markups 143:22

146:13,20 159:20

165:15,19 166:5

167:12,13,22

168:18 169:6

215:21 216:2

218:12 219:15,15

219:18,20 220:3

221:12 222:22

239:13 311:11

masked 150:2

match 83:6 262:5

material 96:14

97:22 98:3,9,14

98:15 101:22

131:19 135:10

140:21 160:1,4,18

160:18 161:6,15

163:2,16 167:17

170:2 173:4 183:3

183:16 184:14,22

materials 98:7

102:12,13 138:21

143:21 146:12

160:8,10,12 161:5

164:8 167:20

168:1,5,6 169:5,8

226:15

material-based

135:1

math 192:20

mathematical

227:11

Matt 24:12 107:18

127:15 139:11

147:19 149:17

153:3 166:22

205:14 300:16

matter 5:6 23:3

109:22 316:11

328:12

Matthew 1:18 3:9

3:17 139:16

197:15 261:16

Matt's 184:8

max 105:1,16 108:6

169:22 170:8,8

184:1,15 194:22

201:6,11 238:1

259:20

maximum 104:18

105:5,12 127:2

154:5 186:6,17

223:4 259:17

263:17

McCABE 1:18

mean 27:22 36:17

38:18 45:12 69:20

103:20,21 126:16

169:19 182:17

183:20 234:14

235:9 243:17

246:1,5,22 258:6

259:9 262:16,21

281:14 282:9

291:8,21

means 101:7 104:5

104:8 149:17

179:16 208:13

226:6,7,20 227:2

256:9 258:13,18

meant 66:10

105:20 153:16

156:15 204:6

260:7

measure 313:7

measured 50:17

measures 95:21

105:3 144:22

205:8 228:20

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 351

measuring 14:20

176:13

mechanical 27:10

34:15 84:15 107:2

115:7 138:1

151:12 229:15

mechanism 58:14

medical 28:8 29:21

124:2 272:17,17

300:4

medium 27:6 70:22

196:1,16 198:11

200:20 258:19

meet 16:15 35:11

35:13,18 38:14

58:5 59:9,9 60:16

91:10 291:14

295:21

meeting 1:3,9 4:18

7:11 9:4,17 10:12

10:12,14 12:3,9

14:14,16,18 15:20

19:6 36:20 51:16

122:17 283:8

meetings 16:20

member 57:13

members 34:18

56:22 64:6 91:12

91:12 92:5,8

290:13

mention 104:15

124:18 149:16

170:21 220:8

221:2 242:21

300:11 307:2

mentioned 21:1

67:19 80:5 90:9

119:18 123:11

142:1,13 145:17

147:7 153:15

154:1 165:1 168:8

172:20 181:17

183:22 188:5

201:20 205:14

214:6 244:4,4

290:15 292:8

301:4 315:19

mentioning 300:4

mercury 315:7

merely 206:22

merge 292:13

mess 78:19

metal 162:8

meter 175:5

meters 180:15

method 95:3 103:2

163:14 187:7

299:13 301:6

308:11 314:22

318:18 319:9

methodological

289:4

methodologies

144:16 265:7

287:19,21 288:10

methodology 89:20

144:14 147:20

254:22

methods 256:20

318:1,22

metric 19:14

MG1 27:2,4,15

31:5 36:16,22

49:2 50:1

MG1-1.05 26:15

MG1-1987 25:21

26:9,15 31:18

34:21,21 35:20

39:18 44:17 48:2

48:9,14 49:20

51:6 132:8 155:21

MIA 290:6,11

301:17 302:5,15

302:16 303:19

307:21

Michael 1:17,18,19

3:5,7 6:17 7:2

45:22 47:1,3

50:10 58:19 59:11

59:13 83:19,20

116:9 120:15

122:14 135:13

139:15 141:4

147:6 151:14

162:17 165:8

171:2 206:5 211:9

252:5 253:8 255:3

midday 8:3

middle 15:15

126:17 141:18

142:18 296:20

migration 269:8

Mike 7:4 11:19

36:18 37:18 64:10

117:9 147:17

151:16 153:3

162:19 166:21

170:19 183:22

184:7 204:9 205:1

206:1 211:10

miles 174:22

million 90:17 91:17

91:20

millions 127:22

mind 26:11 31:20

32:12,21 33:1

107:12 247:19

minimum 10:2

19:21 145:7

154:16 250:13

minus 124:4

187:15 188:6,15

188:20 190:12,20

285:13

minute 86:22 177:4

minutes 83:16

109:7,8,17,21

110:6 300:18

misallocation

322:14 323:3

misleading 97:19

276:16

missing 22:8 231:7

misspoke 213:1

mistaken 164:2

mix 251:20 291:7

309:1

mixture 274:11

model 63:9 65:6

66:3,6,9 145:20

149:1,3 159:16

160:9 162:7

167:12,13 173:5

184:1,3 256:17

261:19 264:12,13

264:17 268:14

269:15 301:9

307:14 310:2,3,17

310:21 311:14,16

311:18 312:14

313:14,17 314:4

319:15

modeling 151:9,18

187:8 308:16

315:4

models 65:7,10,22

66:12 203:5

modification

319:11

modified 157:16

250:8

modifies 48:6

modify 75:5

modifying 291:15

Molly 2:14 6:4 36:4

36:5,9,12 55:8,9

137:10,11 205:17

205:18 206:1

234:4,5 236:22

320:6,7

Molly's 212:1

moments 158:2

monetarily 317:7

monetary 255:22

317:19,21

monetize 255:18

monetized 250:5

month 254:9

months 19:3 303:3

morale 83:10

morning 4:4,22

11:21 110:10

114:19 120:5

139:14 213:17

214:9,15 296:9

motor 2:2,4 21:6

21:14,20 22:4

24:9 25:3,15,19

26:4,12,13 28:14

28:19 29:19,20

33:9,17,18 34:13

34:14,14 36:21

39:6 42:1,1,9,21

42:22 45:14 47:21

48:13 49:16,19,21

50:14,20 51:10,11

53:10,17 56:20

60:9,13,17 62:13

62:16 64:16 70:14

72:12 75:21 77:2

77:3,18 79:19

80:5 81:20 82:2

83:7,13 84:21

85:20,21 86:10,14

86:16 87:7,15,16

90:10 96:9,15

97:10 100:20

105:18,21 106:6,9

107:10,13 108:15

110:20 111:2,13

112:8 114:13,14

114:15 115:9,9,11

115:13 116:3

117:2 119:7,14,21

119:22 120:6

121:7,11 126:16

126:17,18 128:21

129:2 131:10,17

131:20 132:8

134:2,4,4,8,8,9

135:3,22 136:1,19

137:15,17,20

140:22 141:7,9,12

142:4,6,7,9,16,17

145:20 153:14,19

155:14,19 157:18

157:22 158:5,14

158:14 161:11

164:4,8,11 169:14

170:13 171:21

174:7,21 175:11

175:18 178:1,2,14

178:15 179:21

180:22 181:10,19

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227:6 228:3,4,5,9

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258:10,20 259:8

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27:5,7 28:6 30:6,9

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33:13 34:20,22

35:10,16,18,20,22

36:14,15,17 37:2

37:4,14,21 38:13

38:16,17 39:8,11

39:13 41:21 42:6

43:22 44:21 45:1

45:3 46:19,20

48:18 49:1,3

50:15 51:1,2,5,18

51:21 52:7,12,13

53:2,4,16,21 54:3

54:4 55:12,16

56:17 57:3 60:10

62:1,10,18,20

65:17 70:20,22

71:21 72:4,18

73:7,8 74:2 76:19

76:20 80:7 81:21

82:10,14,16,18

88:12 90:11,18

91:9 94:12 95:7

97:20 101:19

111:21,22 112:4

112:10 114:1,2,4

114:8,11 115:21

115:22 122:21

126:20 127:1

129:11 131:6

132:5 138:2

140:19 141:1,9,15

142:11,21 145:5,8

152:10 156:10

157:14 164:4

174:8 175:3,3,7

176:11,18 177:15

177:21 180:19

182:16 184:11

185:1 187:21

189:10 191:14,20

193:12 194:1

195:8 196:1,5,16

198:11,19 199:18

200:20 218:4

224:6 225:17

226:8 229:14

234:11,13 237:16

244:9 245:3,17

248:21 257:14,15

258:15,19 259:4

260:20 269:7

272:2,4,8 274:6

274:12 275:1,8,12

275:13 276:12,12

276:21 277:22

278:8,11,12,21,21

278:22 280:6,7

284:6,12,13,17,19

284:22 285:16

291:11 293:14,16

293:20,21 294:3

294:16,22 295:6,9

296:18 297:1

300:1 303:13

304:2,17 312:16

315:16 320:12,15

320:18,21 321:3

322:2,11,16

motor-rated 230:6

mounted 110:12

mounting 50:19

mouth 323:12

move 7:16 18:4

45:7 67:7 74:18

81:22 83:1 95:18

113:18 115:21

128:5 130:4 139:8

144:13 150:21

153:11 160:7

164:21 169:11

176:17 187:1

195:17 214:15

314:12

moved 43:22

105:19 113:12,13

113:17 177:13

movement 34:18

moves 130:5

moving 9:17 10:1

12:15 18:20 50:6

80:21 130:11

144:7 214:17

223:13 236:19

270:1 297:16

multiple 265:16,22

multiplied 50:16

multiply 75:12

multi-speed 112:17

mutually 205:21

212:3

M19 102:2

M36 101:10

N

NAICS 90:5

name 5:4 9:18 10:6

10:15 36:10 41:2

45:7 139:15

nameplate 60:13

nameplated 60:15

nameplates 296:22

Nardotti 1:18 3:9

3:17 24:12 107:18

139:11,14,16

144:11 147:6,15

149:6 153:10

156:13 157:3,7

159:10 162:14

164:19 165:1,11

167:11 170:2

171:2,13,19 180:7

181:6,14 182:11

182:17,20 183:22

184:14 186:21

192:19 193:6

199:16 200:7

203:12,16 261:16

261:16 289:10

297:17 300:17

303:8,10 306:18

307:1,20 308:1

narrow 114:18

274:14

NASA 184:11

185:3

national 1:16,20

2:7,11 3:14 5:18

8:17 25:16 55:20

140:7 267:17,18

267:20 268:2,3,7

268:10,15,17

279:20 282:17

283:17,21 286:12

299:2,10 308:13

308:16 309:21

310:8 311:1,16

315:1,3 317:4

318:9 319:11,18

nationally 309:11

nationwide 252:17

317:7

nature 21:10 289:1

Navigant 1:16,18

1:19 7:5 11:20

147:18

NCI 302:2

near 119:19 187:19

194:22 201:6

nearly 241:11

necessarily 49:20

58:5 98:21 127:9

191:10 200:13

202:19

necessary 8:22

137:15 140:2

189:12 294:11

need 10:7,17 21:15

33:18 38:8 43:10

71:9 75:22 119:18

132:18 134:4

137:20 148:5

158:9 172:10,15

200:14 222:13

233:16 242:21

306:9,12,13

323:21

needed 18:4 193:18

194:5

needs 22:22 29:6

104:19 107:11

178:20 180:2

232:2 233:1

negative 286:11

NEMA 2:6,9 5:21

25:9,16,20 26:9

29:4 31:5,18

35:20 36:16 38:1

38:4 39:4,12 48:2

48:6,8 49:15,16

49:19,20 53:11,16

53:20 56:22 57:13

60:14 63:21 64:7

73:18,20 80:8,18

81:3 84:11 89:22

90:2,7,10 92:4,14

112:6 114:5,8

120:17 155:20

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EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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news 91:22

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nice 97:8,11,12

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nodding 80:1

noise 135:22

noncompetitive

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nondisclosure

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nonfunctional

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nonproduction

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non-compliant

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non-regulatory

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319:16,20

noon 8:4

NOPM 18:17

NOPR 14:22 15:11

16:21 18:8,8,22

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132:10 167:9

199:12 210:8

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256:6 289:13,21

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307:18,18 318:6

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Nora 132:14,15

normal 101:13

normally 243:18

North 130:10,12

Northeast 252:19

Northwest 6:7

78:22 100:13

163:22 251:11

274:17

note 142:20 153:21

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189:2,5 193:15

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notice 15:18 16:5

17:18 18:15 69:1

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265:9 279:10

286:19 287:15

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308:3

noticed 67:16

68:17 96:21

173:15 177:1

notices 15:13 17:2

notion 188:14

novice 72:12

no-load 179:15,16

NPV 268:17

number 21:3 25:20

26:5 40:1 42:7

48:10 50:12,16

53:12 56:5 62:14

62:19 68:13 69:4

73:7 75:6,8 82:19

84:4 85:6 129:6

131:11 141:2

148:17 176:15

179:7 193:4

195:13 197:12

202:9 203:8

206:13,18,19

223:4 229:9 235:9

244:15 246:15

247:1,2 272:10

275:20 276:4

277:21 324:12

numbers 44:19

62:3 87:1 88:5

91:6,8,15 92:5,6

97:18 99:11

100:19 102:20

150:4,10 156:14

167:14 191:7

194:18 207:16

270:12 276:18,20

305:5 312:21

numerical 44:19

O

O 56:19 263:20

293:17

object 184:10

objective 205:3

observation 47:7

67:16 68:4 70:4

observe 8:6 102:4

obsolescence

291:21

obsolete 21:21

obtain 203:2

obtained 257:16

278:2

obtaining 78:6

obviously 26:19

41:5 42:18 48:15

180:19 286:12

occur 216:18

occurred 113:16

occurrence 245:2

OD 173:14 197:2

OEM 28:4 33:14

33:18 34:8,9

121:12,21 123:17

123:22 218:11

219:1 241:13

245:10 300:2

312:22

OEMs 174:18

296:19 310:18

311:12,14

offered 319:3

offering 68:12

offhand 231:5

officer 1:13 4:3,7

6:18 16:9 22:11

29:12 31:14,21

32:13 37:7 54:6

56:7 149:14 151:3

192:7 224:18

225:19 233:12

236:20 245:13

246:21 277:4,8

287:6,16,20 288:6

297:11 323:7

324:18,21 325:8

326:2,6,10,22

328:5

offshore 57:21

58:12 296:1,17

306:11

off-campus 213:6

Oh 36:11 75:3

107:7 212:17

221:15 326:10

Ohio 174:22

okay 9:15 11:2,15

11:15 19:20 20:3

22:5 23:19 26:12

29:10 31:7,12,21

32:1 34:10 38:21

39:16 40:5,7,18

41:11 43:10 44:15

46:4 50:9,11

52:19,21 54:21,22

56:2,13 58:17

60:1 61:2,7 64:8,9

67:13 74:14,15

76:8 83:14 85:11

87:19 89:13 92:20

94:2,7 96:18

104:12 105:2

106:1,14,18 109:3

109:4,20 116:8

117:6 120:11

130:14 131:8

134:11 137:6

139:1 147:16

151:6 153:1 157:3

164:17 171:11,17

172:18 186:20

198:8 200:1,6

206:6 214:5,12,16

214:18 232:8,8,10

236:16 243:9

247:16 248:5

259:1 262:11

263:9,18 266:7

267:16,18 270:20

276:3 277:18,19

278:6 280:15

284:15 285:1

289:7 297:4,16

307:19 309:7

312:5 314:9,14,15

317:14,15 323:4

omitted 21:4 49:13

once 51:15 79:17

150:8 173:12

ones 109:1 117:16

253:19 254:1

274:8,13 286:5

316:4 326:7

one-half 42:1

one-horsepower

72:18 87:3 93:16

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opposite 109:12

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option 104:20

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107:6,10 108:4,7

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132:12 134:15,22

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oranges 264:11

order 25:22 80:17

101:9 127:3 128:5

137:15 146:4

168:2

organization 5:4

organizational

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organized 160:10

organizing 241:17

orientations 97:9

original 187:2

217:14,18 218:6

220:10,13 222:15

ought 274:3 313:22

ounce-feet 42:4

outlook 249:10

308:19

output 149:5 178:3

178:6,17,20 184:4

216:14 230:11,19

230:20 300:5

301:17 308:20

310:10 319:17

outputs 160:5

316:3

outset 11:11

outside 10:4 152:15

152:16 324:8

overall 17:16 88:12

124:13 144:14

222:22 285:10

287:21

overestimated

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overhead 160:2

165:20 167:18

168:5 169:6

overseas 72:22

oversell 43:7

overview 3:5 7:17

11:18

owners 257:3

oxides 315:6

oxygen 272:19

o'clock 8:14,17,20

214:7

P

P 230:5

pack 7:13

package 21:15

84:15 88:13

151:12

packaging 274:21

275:3

packet 187:2

page 3:2 32:5 79:1

97:1 100:22 119:3

193:1 230:2

232:21 233:2

283:7,8

pages 39:21

paid 160:19 161:2

161:9,12

paragraph 26:15

27:3 35:20 40:2

119:20

parallel 143:14

289:18

parameter 154:6

parameters 157:13

257:1 305:6

parcel 22:19

part 22:19 30:5

31:4 34:3 52:11

52:13 71:1,10

77:22 91:20

112:21 128:3,4

134:14 139:21

147:8 163:3 187:4

200:14 237:1

243:1 244:14

246:15 247:1,4,5

253:6 290:1

322:19,21 327:14

partial 114:14

particular 9:10

27:12 29:22 32:7

33:3 59:1 82:3,6

116:22 127:11

157:1 208:10

218:20 228:17

229:2 242:9

244:15 246:15

252:7 253:11

259:7 262:14

286:14 300:2,12

312:22 320:13,17

327:3

particularly 131:5

241:17 273:12

300:8,9 320:11

particulate 316:11

parties 17:6 122:19

215:14 224:11

225:15 234:20

237:14 248:13

281:22 283:12

300:11 315:21

326:18

parts 53:8 305:10

party 244:10,12

passed 52:10,12

243:13

path 205:5,12

212:6 218:10

pathway 165:9

patience 325:1

pause 110:8

payback 3:12 8:16

140:6 146:4

262:10,12,13

263:1 264:4,7,13

264:13,17,19

265:1,1 267:2,2

281:12 285:18

298:21 299:15

300:6

payments 169:2

peak 154:5 308:8

peaks 162:12

peculiar 242:9

penalized 175:13

penalties 181:4

people 4:9 9:18

11:10 13:11 30:17

47:14 113:21

133:12 135:13

152:7 188:13

214:5 278:16

300:3

percent 40:13

42:22 48:18 55:13

56:18 57:15 84:3

84:3 85:8 87:5,13

88:7,14 90:19,21

93:11,13 121:5

125:13,16,17

129:7 131:13

154:6 155:12,19

166:15,16 167:2,4

167:5 169:21

172:13 174:15

176:8,15,16,20

180:18,20 190:6

190:12 200:17

202:5,11 203:2

207:9 209:19,21

218:22 219:1,3,10

229:8 234:16,16

235:11 237:19,21

237:22 238:9,9,20

239:2 241:10

257:2,4 259:9

285:7,8,9,19,19

percentage 55:15

82:17 128:13

166:12 189:1

238:22 239:1,3,5

322:22 323:1

percentages 218:19

275:1 276:17

perfectly 48:4

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 355

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performance-rel...

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performs 123:13

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period 3:12 8:16

15:1 140:6 146:5

163:11 179:18

262:10,12 263:2

268:16,18,21

278:19 298:21

299:15 305:18,21

periodically 60:7

periods 262:13

300:6

permanent 96:14

106:5 111:21

132:4 185:21

270:9,19

permanent-split

35:3,18 37:1 39:9

42:6,11,11 45:1,2

person 5:3 72:13

121:10,20

personally 172:20

237:1 264:15

266:21

pervious 20:9

per-unit 190:5

235:5,9 291:9

PG&E 6:5 114:19

phase 181:18 290:9

291:6 302:6,7,10

302:14 303:10

304:3,5,9,13

305:16

phased 254:14

phaseout 254:15

phases 290:7,8

302:19

phones 10:10

phrase 32:9

physical 21:15

50:13

Ph.D 2:6

pick 254:20

picked 204:5

233:15

picking 204:5

picture 303:22

piece 60:20 114:16

121:7,9,15 197:19

217:16 234:20

246:13 275:2

296:21

pieces 17:8 18:3

28:5 175:8 215:1

215:9 217:4 218:1

place 60:21 125:2

198:3 232:21

placed 242:16

places 252:3

plainly 89:4

plan 24:13 214:12

306:9

planning 306:10

plant 82:14,15

104:2 175:1 303:6

314:20 315:4

plants 254:13,16

306:13

plastic 96:13 131:8

131:10

plateau 278:13

play 73:2 98:16

205:2,13 212:4

players 311:9

plays 254:7

please 5:7 6:21

9:21 10:1,3 20:21

31:16 36:1,6,10

39:1 41:2 42:15

43:13 45:7 47:8

47:15 55:8 73:13

75:9 84:7 87:20

103:17 105:10,15

109:16 118:16

120:15 133:15

137:10 148:11

151:7 156:19

165:6 169:16

185:10 186:3

203:20 205:16

215:15 223:18

234:22 237:4,5

255:4 262:19

263:19 271:15

273:22 275:15

295:11 303:1

320:5,6 323:9

328:3

PLL 232:16 233:3

plot 189:17 190:1,8

228:2,8,9 229:14

229:16 231:13

235:18 265:1

278:7,10

plots 229:1 280:21

plotted 187:10,15

286:4

plotting 230:9

280:21

plug 127:14 272:5

plugged 195:4

201:15

plus 50:21 124:4

168:6 169:22

226:3 229:15,20

230:12,20 233:3

285:13

PNL 232:15 233:3

point 9:4,22 21:13

28:2 29:14 31:10

32:15 33:3 37:9

44:16 49:12 55:12

70:15 87:14,15

94:3 110:17 115:2

115:4 116:4 118:5

118:19 120:17

123:19 125:5

144:22 150:14

154:22 157:4,21

159:15 162:20

166:2 170:8,17,20

186:14 193:1,8

194:1 197:6

200:22 202:12

220:14 236:7,9,11

236:12 238:19,22

239:1 241:5 243:3

244:4 246:1,6,22

250:16 255:9,17

261:12,19,21

266:3,9,11 274:2

282:13 289:4,17

290:2 296:8

301:21 314:8,8

321:21

pointed 42:8 84:10

84:11 114:18

137:21 146:21

231:10 238:18

pointing 326:11

points 110:15

112:15,18 170:10

239:4 265:16

266:1 280:4

pole 68:15 141:13

141:14 142:22

poles 62:4,14,20

67:18,20 68:2

93:12,14 141:2,19

195:14,15,15,22

195:22,22 196:20

277:21

Policy 13:18

polyphase 35:4,10

38:4 43:17,18

62:9 63:2,11,12

64:16 70:14 90:19

91:17 141:1,8

142:3,11 156:9

157:6 169:13

171:21 176:11

194:11,19 199:19

200:20 201:1,7,12

202:4 207:8

257:14 259:8

265:2 277:22

280:7 283:20

pool 113:12,14,17

275:7,12

pop 122:10

population 241:18

284:6,10,12

portfolios 57:2

portion 23:16

90:14 243:2,12

271:11 293:22

311:10

posed 311:6

position 48:1

321:17 327:22

positive 14:4,7

286:13

possibility 146:22

181:2 320:14

possible 88:9

163:14,15 174:19

184:22 197:8,12

198:21 215:7

222:18 294:14

315:13

possibly 72:10 73:3

97:4

posted 17:3

post-2045 278:22

potential 269:12

290:3 292:20

295:5 317:21

potentially 49:3

65:18 291:9

292:19 294:22

303:6 308:22

pound 97:3 101:13

101:15 161:2

162:3 170:22

171:1

pounds 224:8

powder 96:13

131:8,9,22

power 34:15,16

97:13 142:3

174:11,12,14,16

174:19 175:1,4,5

175:12,17,18

179:2,21 180:12

180:14,17 181:1,3

181:17 187:19

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

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practicable 126:5

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practical 59:17

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practicality 123:10

practice 199:22

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precise 234:18

preempted 321:8

preemption 320:20

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prefer 63:21

preference 63:22

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preliminaries

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preliminary 3:15

8:18 11:22 12:6

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223:16,20 233:7

234:19 239:18

240:11 243:8

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256:13 258:8

262:3 263:3 265:5

265:9 269:9 271:1

271:10 278:15

279:4,9 282:21

286:18 289:1,1,8

289:11,16,22

290:2,8,11 293:10

298:3,4,7,17

303:19 305:19

premium 77:19

80:6,8,19 88:8

114:5,9 115:12

169:22 172:13

174:8 194:7

200:18 201:11

202:2 209:6,7,9

209:18 237:18,20

238:10,21 239:1

270:1

prepare 75:9 128:1

304:18 305:1

306:6 307:5

prepared 89:18

preparing 325:11

prescribe 13:19

prescriptive 318:14

present 1:12 2:1

12:5 24:9,12

41:19 49:13 55:1

70:11 139:16

147:1 173:16

192:1 240:19

260:17,22 268:8

268:17 279:18,19

280:19 285:11

286:10 287:9

301:12,18,19

317:4 319:19

presentation 13:9

77:9 116:8 167:9

221:22 266:14,17

325:5

presentations

12:18

presented 178:22

179:10 230:3

309:17

presenting 55:19

127:16 287:17

presently 199:14

presents 222:4

286:17

presiding 1:13 4:3

4:7 6:18 16:9

22:11 29:12 31:14

31:21 32:13 37:7

54:6 56:7 149:14

151:3 192:7

224:18 225:19

233:12 236:20

245:13 246:21

277:4,8 287:6,16

287:20 288:6

297:11 323:7

324:18,21 325:8

326:2,6,10,22

328:5

press 110:7 200:4

214:8

pressing 159:6

presumably 37:14

presumption 148:2

150:11

presumptions

150:20

pretty 81:6 84:13

162:1,7 222:7

228:7 251:18

285:14 322:9

previous 17:19

65:3 67:12 81:20

83:7 144:20

194:16 195:13

207:15 208:4

224:5 232:12

285:8

previously 74:12

207:2 310:20

price 140:2 146:14

159:21 160:18

161:2,9 162:2

163:8 169:10

215:21 216:3

218:13 219:16,18

219:21 239:15,16

243:14 249:8,14

249:19 250:8,20

255:1 256:11

279:12 300:9

309:1 319:14

priced 252:20

prices 46:18 144:2

145:1 159:18

161:5,16 162:8,16

163:4,4,17 164:7

171:9 181:21

182:3 216:4 240:4

240:18 248:18,20

248:22 249:2,21

250:15 251:21

252:14 255:2

319:12

pries 251:4

primarily 93:10

prior 219:19

prioritization

204:13

priority 13:5

probably 11:7

42:18,21 68:19

76:14 77:20 88:10

93:12,16 99:19

100:19 104:5

108:11,14 110:6

115:16 127:7

162:4 174:22

209:4 219:3

254:16 324:4

problem 162:22

177:13 224:4

254:5

problematic

154:16

Problems 130:21

procedure 14:9

19:7,11,13 176:10

procedures 14:20

176:12 305:21

326:21 327:1

procedure/proce...

327:4

proceed 4:18 7:11

16:14

process 16:4,11,15

22:21 53:1 61:10

81:1 149:19 150:4

150:12,19,20

151:2,4 154:8

210:10 211:18

246:17 247:5,6,22

302:6,18

processes 129:22

288:10

procurement

318:17

produce 65:20

81:10 121:7 164:9

293:14,19

produced 57:17

producers 310:18

produces 308:18

producing 210:15

295:8

product 19:16 28:3

34:2,4 45:18

57:17,18 58:2,3

60:19 61:1 68:9

68:11 76:17,19,22

80:12,14,15 81:10

93:17 104:7

113:16 114:16,21

115:6 118:2

123:15,17,17,20

123:21 124:2,14

127:10 129:21

149:4 174:7 177:6

192:1 208:5,7,9

218:20 219:5

223:13 226:4

243:14,22 269:22

270:2,15,17

272:20 291:7,17

291:20 294:13

296:2 316:16

319:2,3

production 127:21

146:13,20 148:22

159:19,22 160:3

165:2,12,20

167:19 243:19,22

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

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profile 302:7

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profits 169:2 216:9

program 99:22

148:21 184:10

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programs 148:17

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project 90:16

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projecting 191:12

projection 191:15

209:4 251:3 271:1

projections 249:8

249:13 252:13

promoting 95:7

promotion 77:22

prompting 292:12

pronounce 116:20

properly 237:9

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proportion 292:4

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proportionality

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proportions 217:3

proposal 286:21

proposed 16:5

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proposes 58:9

proposing 17:22

48:17 62:7

proprietary 143:19

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prosper 188:14

protection 247:21

protectors 248:3

prototype 97:20

99:20 101:16

102:18 131:16

prototypes 102:22

proven 98:21

provide 11:3,10

47:9,11 73:19

88:2 122:19 126:9

143:12 163:16

178:19 209:8

233:17 245:17

246:4 288:9 307:6

318:3 323:13

327:19

provided 25:9 88:6

89:22 90:2,15

92:17 97:4 125:12

146:16 149:7

156:6 172:11

182:18 250:4

310:22

provides 11:3

260:18 286:21

299:18 315:4

providing 88:5

240:12 290:12

provision 47:22

48:3 49:6

PSC 36:14 38:16

38:16 42:20

public 1:3,9 4:22

10:12 15:20 16:20

18:1 283:7 299:19

303:12

publication 25:21

48:2,9

publicly 90:4

168:11,13

publish 18:9

published 13:2

14:5,15,22 15:17

18:16 19:1 24:22

56:10 90:1 254:9

publishes 15:12

publishing 106:11

189:9

pulleys 112:8

pulling 154:2

179:20 228:2

pull-up 136:13

137:22

pump 45:3 113:17

177:16 275:12

pumping 275:6

pumps 113:12,14

272:19 274:8

275:6,7

Pumpuni 2:10 5:22

5:22 132:16,16,22

133:3 134:12

203:21,21 204:16

204:16 255:5,5

punching 101:8

purchase 87:16

300:9 319:14

purely 99:11

purpose 12:3,16

24:17 25:18 26:3

26:8,12,22 27:14

30:10 32:20 33:9

34:1 35:15,19

36:15,16,20 37:22

39:6,14 41:7 42:9

45:19 46:21 48:12

49:16,19,21 51:10

51:11,12 76:22

90:10 91:9,10

94:10 105:19

114:2,4 138:2

209:8 216:3

244:16 251:12

267:22 268:3,6

272:14 275:8,13

276:11 299:7

300:20 302:18

308:6 309:9

314:17 318:8

319:6

purposes 35:14

46:19 81:18 110:5

183:14 276:7

288:9

push 7:9 105:4

117:1

pushed 174:17

177:21 294:1,15

pushes 175:14

push-back 112:22

put 45:16 54:17

71:3 86:12 97:6

107:14 113:3

128:21 129:12

177:15 178:14

189:13 217:10

218:7 222:2 241:6

251:16 272:22

275:20 295:8

323:11 324:2

puts 45:13 295:17

putting 58:10

217:15 279:22

PW 230:12 232:7

P-R-O-C-E-E-D-...

4:1

p.m 213:22 214:2

328:13

Q

quads 284:1

qualified 133:12

qualify 36:14 274:9

quantify 83:22

148:4,7 241:12

245:4 290:3

quantities 225:7

235:6

quantity 230:12

quarter-horsepo...

70:1

question 15:21

19:10 39:3 45:11

57:5 69:14,16

75:4 94:4,13

106:4 116:19

122:1 134:20,21

144:6 148:13

152:3,13 183:13

190:22 196:2,19

198:17 212:1

223:9 226:1 230:1

231:3 234:7 245:8

246:22 250:3

261:3,9 270:5

283:17 306:9

311:6 313:21

315:11 316:13

320:9,19

questioning 156:21

questions 3:18 8:21

9:9 10:21 12:10

15:3 20:4 54:20

116:8 172:5,10

186:22 227:3

241:1 249:15

262:8 292:15

304:22 307:21

309:4 319:22

320:4 328:3

queue 10:8

queuing 9:17

quick 45:11 212:13

316:19

quickly 47:19

249:17

quite 133:4 169:19

173:9 207:17

225:13 285:12

R

R 177:11 179:20

227:8

Raba 1:13 3:21 4:3

4:8 6:18,18 16:9,9

22:10,11,11 29:12

29:12 31:14,14,21

32:13,13 37:6,7,7

54:5,6,6 56:6,7,8

149:13,14,14

151:3 192:7,7

224:17,18,18

225:19 233:12,12

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

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radial 119:6,10

125:18 126:1

130:17,18

rail 225:10

raise 9:2,3,12 32:15

37:10 47:15

156:18 173:13

294:7,10

raised 38:7 58:2

86:12 157:20

211:14 249:17

295:3 296:5

316:14

ramp 278:19

ramped 279:14

ramp-up 278:10

range 67:20 84:1

85:13,18 126:18

141:18 174:7

222:22 226:20,21

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ranges 42:7

rapidly 297:20

rare 175:11 272:22

rate 90:7 165:14,16

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rated 26:18 27:1

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rates 131:4 225:6

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rating 53:14,14,19

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69:2 74:8 83:3,5

84:15 85:10 111:5

142:15,17 239:20

ratings 27:9 32:5

53:4 54:11 55:2

62:4,11 65:19

68:14,15 70:17

71:3 74:1 75:8

77:11 84:18 93:10

141:3,3,12 142:10

142:19 145:10

209:12

ratio 82:11 194:15

rationale 286:22

327:20

RAZON 2:11

reach 162:12

189:15

reached 296:8

reactive 227:17,20

228:9,11,18,20

229:6 234:3 237:9

237:11,15

read 17:12 26:17

31:9 40:1 48:5

49:1 67:6 138:6

166:10 172:16

209:7,13

reads 25:16 26:16

ready 45:7 306:14

real 60:5 77:16

89:8 93:7 99:16

113:2 151:22

152:9 173:17

183:10 257:2

285:6,9

Realistically

205:20

realize 33:7 57:19

70:16 100:18

121:6 167:7

realized 106:10

really 29:15 34:5

65:8 89:5,10 91:5

93:5 94:1 102:6

102:14 111:7

113:4,15 114:17

119:18 120:8

122:6 191:14

219:8 224:22

244:4 255:19

272:7 274:4,11,14

306:21

real-world 245:18

reason 35:12 37:3

45:16 51:5 79:5

89:9 112:21

116:21 143:6

148:15 170:11

208:1 224:4

268:20 316:12

reasonable 47:21

48:5 145:21

153:17 202:17

316:17

reasons 58:1 105:8

141:15

rebates 318:15

recalculate 210:6

304:10

recall 67:11 117:19

136:12

receive 60:6 182:22

received 88:20

107:8 150:8

169:12 290:22

receives 18:7

recertification

246:17

recertified 244:20

recess 213:21

recognize 10:6

51:17 53:3 136:8

324:6,9

recognized 137:4

recognizes 119:21

227:17

recognizing 10:16

recommend 252:9

recommendation

327:18

recommendations

12:14 108:6 241:7

297:6 326:9,15

327:3

recommended

176:10

reconstruct 282:9

record 5:6 7:1

10:13,20 11:12

30:18 54:12 83:17

110:1,22 111:14

138:8 182:8

212:15 323:12,12

325:6

recorded 307:9

recovered 222:14

red 200:18

redesign 21:22

121:14,20 244:5

247:22 291:17

reduce 27:11 95:17

106:22 176:19

269:7

reduced 308:8,8

reducing 119:6

134:16

reduction 98:5

250:19 269:12

317:20,22

reductions 225:8

250:6,7

refer 63:14 89:6

221:5 261:14

reference 39:20

40:3 144:21 156:6

194:1 200:21

249:10 261:12

319:1

referenced 101:1

references 39:6

referencing 156:22

231:22

referred 63:10

136:14

referring 31:3 63:7

116:22 193:4

238:21

refined 150:13

refinements 233:15

288:13

reflect 243:11

253:5

reflected 253:3

313:2

reflection 280:22

Refrigeration 2:10

refurbishments

305:10

regain 155:15

Regal-Beloit 2:7

5:15 20:7 56:21

67:15 206:11

275:16 293:18

regarding 43:17

240:16 290:17

318:4

regards 39:4 96:21

228:18

region 253:22

regional 252:17

254:1

Register 15:13,17

17:2 18:15

registered 7:14

registration 7:14

regularly 60:7

regulate 104:11

regulated 278:12

322:16 324:7

regulating 284:9

regulation 58:12

58:16 110:17,17

111:14,19 114:6

293:1 296:15

319:8

regulations 20:1

30:4 59:9,10

293:3 305:7

322:21 324:15

regulatory 293:7

298:15 301:5,9

307:14 318:7,8,13

319:7,10,17

322:19

reiterate 86:22

relate 69:19 127:10

189:10 218:13

219:15,18,20

related 50:5 55:5

57:3 69:17 78:3

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

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relatively 172:2

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reliability 131:4

reluctance 270:9

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remain 130:12

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remained 172:2

remarks 3:20 9:7

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remember 52:9

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remove 133:4

173:3

removed 123:18

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removes 26:22

removing 96:1

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138:11 139:5

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repaired 60:10

repairing 175:3

replace 22:3 60:17

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51:1 147:3 178:15

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report 66:2,8,15

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reported 92:8

reporting 249:3

reports 18:4

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represent 17:14

143:3 160:16

167:14 232:18

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representation

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representative

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141:6 142:2 143:2

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represented 16:22

57:12

representing 6:7

represents 145:3

187:14 230:10

239:1 278:10

request 55:4 73:15

162:21 201:21

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requested 73:18,20

73:22 88:5 290:16

require 49:20

61:14 104:9

required 42:2

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requirement 21:20

38:14 42:13 59:14

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requirements

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36:19,21 37:3

38:1 40:12 58:6

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requires 34:19

127:7

reread 40:15

research 169:1

Reserve 256:21

residential 92:1

249:6 273:13

274:21 275:3,4,8

resistance 177:2,10

resources 58:14

111:3,17,20 113:1

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respect 47:15 54:2

58:20 70:21

146:19 156:5

292:9

respond 68:6

133:12 151:19

166:22

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response 9:13 11:1

15:5 50:8 61:6

74:17 107:8 109:2

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171:16 183:1

184:8 200:5 202:6

202:9 227:4 262:9

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317:13 320:1

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responses 291:1,3

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rest 93:13 151:12

restrict 172:4

restriction 27:12

32:6 154:3,4

155:6

restrictions 145:17

145:19,22 153:11

153:13,16 157:8

157:10

restrooms 109:15

result 14:1 133:7

182:7 195:1 231:9

240:3 290:21

291:17 293:10

309:20 310:7

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resulting 122:22

164:4 262:13

311:21 327:9

results 62:17 88:2

90:16 140:4 149:2

169:12,13 195:2

237:11 259:4

265:8 284:4

302:15 305:4

308:12,20 315:1

resume 109:7

213:18,19 214:4

resumed 110:1

retail 218:8 239:14

retesting 247:22

retool 127:21 294:2

retooling 127:7,19

243:12 245:19

retrofitting 294:21

return 214:14

returned 202:9

revenues 168:17

249:4

review 7:10 12:4,8

13:15 17:4,11

18:1 56:12 95:5

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reviewed 20:13

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reviewing 59:3

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revise 17:18 18:8

298:7,18,22 299:4

revised 123:5

revises 298:16

revisions 265:10

revisit 238:7

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RGGI 253:6,15,22

right 11:14,14,15

15:1,15 18:17

23:20 29:2,3,5

36:21 41:10 62:2

64:14 65:12 81:5

114:12,20 115:18

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rise 99:10

risks 292:19

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60:3 75:17 77:7,8

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105:15 110:11,13

119:17 123:6

125:5 129:14

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row 195:7

rpm 177:5,8 178:17

RS 226:6,7,20

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258:13,18

rule 14:13 15:8,12

17:18 18:6,10

19:2 163:7,18

286:18 321:18

rulemaking 3:5,16

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16:5 17:17 20:5

37:15 48:16 51:21

53:1 71:20 72:8

127:17 128:4

139:18,21 163:1

208:4 234:12

253:5 265:10

279:10 286:17,19

287:2,15 289:9,14

298:9 302:17

305:13 307:18

308:4 317:5,7

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321:1,7,9 322:10

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rulemakings 16:3

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rules 147:22 288:4

run 104:1 129:21

134:4 135:14

142:6,8 307:15

running 98:20

178:16 182:1

runs 179:17 259:3

rural 2:7,11 174:21

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safe 325:21 328:9

safety 118:4,14

245:21 246:12

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sake 208:17 215:5

221:21 251:3

sale 60:22

sales 92:7 168:22

239:14 249:4

276:11,18,20

277:20 278:15

292:3 308:22

samples 245:16

satisfactory 180:4

satisfied 327:7

save 284:1 323:17

savings 14:2 111:4

111:16 113:2,5

259:6,10 260:8,9

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268:4,15 277:2

279:4,14,16,18,19

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287:11 308:13,14

310:9 315:1,2

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saw 80:1 174:5

201:14 237:2

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saying 22:20 36:8

36:13 44:7 65:13

71:20 75:18 83:17

111:15 137:14

175:21 191:17

199:7 245:21,22

261:12 264:16

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119:19 121:19

129:6 207:9,14

230:18

scale 40:11 141:20

141:21 187:16

192:3 193:16

285:11 326:17

scaled 284:5

scaling 75:7 187:4

187:7 194:11,13

194:20 195:5

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scenario 81:19

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scenes 89:10

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schedule 18:12

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seriousness 184:21

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service 27:2,11

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serviced 123:16

services 92:18

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setting 77:9 145:22

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settle 164:16 197:5

settling 63:16

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shaft 50:18 86:13

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shaped 131:10

share 57:15 92:5

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shares 292:9

sharp 263:15

sharply 259:16

sheet 187:3,4 314:1

sheets 216:11

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snack 213:15

social 251:5

software 107:20

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151:21 152:5

160:6 184:5 205:3

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34:6 81:20 93:12

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soliciting 127:18

solid 255:15

solution 185:8

Solutions 5:1

solve 195:6

Somebody 198:4

someone's 121:6

somewhat 231:19

296:9 322:17

soon 306:22

sorry 19:5 36:11

40:15 41:3 52:20

64:11 69:15 76:10

134:19 153:3

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221:15,16 284:16

307:20 326:3

sort 8:12 12:20

13:5 18:11 47:7

50:22 59:20 83:22

125:9 126:17

143:11 204:12

211:17 252:6

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source 171:10

sources 12:14

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specification

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270:10,18

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152:15 155:10

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19:15 35:7 68:21

70:7 125:20

127:17 199:12,12

215:4 265:6,9

286:16,19 287:2,4

289:14 298:9

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stages 20:5 22:16

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241:6 313:11

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19:15,18 27:8,9

32:5 36:16 38:15

39:5,12 41:19

42:7 44:22 48:6

50:22 51:6 62:2

69:22 71:8 76:17

77:12 80:12 87:5

88:6 114:7 143:4

147:13,20 158:15

174:6 176:9,21,22

187:10 189:11

190:15,19 191:2

192:10,18 193:21

196:1 199:5,21

200:22 202:1

206:22 211:16,19

215:19 216:4

225:1 239:12

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262:15 276:22

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starting 43:4

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29:16 34:19 48:19

104:16 131:18

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102:19 103:1,3

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75:6 102:20,21

109:4,5 116:10

133:13 136:2

139:12 148:20

150:21 151:9

153:6 204:21

212:10 241:18

252:9 253:10

267:6 268:22

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25:6 28:2 56:16

100:20 107:18

111:8 112:15,18

121:4 126:13

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188:8 215:15

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310:19 312:18

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114:12,17 115:2

123:20 124:7

126:16 134:2,15

152:14 160:7

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tariff 225:8

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130:19 138:16

154:14 155:19

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239:3 260:6 268:8

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288:17 296:13

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99:9 100:5 111:20

119:13 124:15

127:14 138:10,17

138:18,20 161:15

167:20 178:6

180:5 189:11,18

190:14 191:2

192:1,3,10 195:17

196:22 199:1,2

203:9 214:20

216:1,1 218:2

221:14,20 227:5

234:13 239:4

250:19 272:12,12

272:20 276:17

281:9 283:13

303:18 310:1

312:16,20 314:3

315:2 316:15

317:20 322:11

323:1

useful 44:15 67:2

80:2 150:7,9

179:19 180:21

182:6 186:16

192:6 224:15

240:14 241:17

248:17 271:3

318:5

user 21:16 22:6

23:10,13 178:2

180:2 219:4

241:13 295:2

users 22:22 121:22

174:18 177:17

223:2 241:19

242:10

user's 178:15

user-friendly

321:21

uses 64:13 99:22

304:4 308:12,15

usual 27:11

usually 197:2

219:16 223:22

226:14

utilities 180:15

249:3 308:7

utility 61:16 118:2

118:14 123:17

131:3 153:20

228:14 298:13

308:2,5,7,21

309:3,5 316:20

327:12

U.S 1:9 51:19 53:6

53:15 57:17

216:12

V

valid 194:1 243:7

323:20

validate 143:16

148:22 191:18

validated 151:21

152:9 183:10

validation 148:14

149:7

value 69:9 98:15

136:20 154:5

156:22 159:2,4

163:11 173:2

176:8,13 187:19

190:5,6,7 193:10

194:9,22 195:3,13

201:6 202:4,5

203:1 209:6,7,10

209:12 225:7

238:8,10 240:20

248:14 250:5

255:19 257:1

260:17 262:16,21

268:8,17 279:18

279:19 280:19

285:11 286:11

287:10 301:12,18

301:19 317:5,19

317:22 319:19

values 88:11,19

156:11 181:20

191:22 195:7

201:12 203:9,11

235:17 238:6

239:5 251:7

252:21,22 268:13

317:3,21 318:2,4

valuing 237:15

Van 1:19 3:11,13

3:14,17 23:6,6

122:12,12 186:4,4

190:17 191:16

192:5 195:20

197:7,17 198:5,9

199:8 207:21,21

210:2,18 211:2,7

214:18,22 218:16

219:12 221:4,7,11

221:15,19 223:15

223:22 225:12

226:5 227:5

229:13 231:1

232:5 233:5,22

234:17 235:7,14

236:1,6 237:7

238:11 239:7

241:16 243:10

245:8 248:7 250:2

256:3 257:8,10

258:7 259:2

260:10 261:5,13

262:1,11 263:1,7

263:10 264:22

265:20 266:2,13

267:7,14,18

270:14,22 273:17

277:19 280:12,16

281:16 282:11,13

283:10 284:4,8,13

284:18,21 285:2,5

285:22 286:7,16

287:14,18 297:21

297:22 308:3

309:8 310:21

312:10,19 313:8

313:10 314:15

315:17 316:6

317:9,15 319:6

320:2

variability 99:15

100:9 165:8

257:19

variable 98:19,20

101:18,19 160:11

160:16,21 270:10

270:18

variables 140:22

variable-speed

113:14

variation 258:14

259:12

variations 258:20

varied 227:14

varies 161:6 256:20

various 28:5,13

89:3 100:21

151:10 164:5

177:6 215:12,13

216:11,18 221:2

242:17 251:22

259:13 319:20

VARs 228:19 229:6

vary 68:1 84:14

175:18 220:4

225:13 226:9,11

231:14 232:17

239:20 240:9

256:10 258:19

263:4

varying 258:9

vast 247:20 293:16

Veinott 152:7

ventilating 276:6

ventilation 157:15

verify 149:1

version 48:5 50:1

253:4 266:14

299:14

versus 73:16 76:22

228:9 231:13

260:10

vetting 265:6

vibrate 10:10

vicious 77:17

view 47:10 233:17

325:4

views 30:14 287:9

326:13

visas 306:12

visible 169:20

visit 147:9 149:17

149:20 158:11

visited 20:10

visits 303:6

visualize 15:7

18:12 44:12

voice 58:8

volume 141:17

198:7 249:4

276:11

voluntary 318:16

W

W 2:7 230:5

wait 177:4

walked 7:13

Walking 109:9

want 4:13 9:12

13:14 47:14 72:17

73:10 78:12 88:22

92:15 111:12

113:1 118:5

124:22 129:12

133:3 138:5

149:16 180:15

186:11,13 198:15

201:2 202:16

248:8 270:11

275:17 276:9

281:22 296:7

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
(202) 234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 368

312:2 316:10

321:12 323:11

324:1,9,16 325:22

326:4

wanted 73:14 85:20

104:14 107:14

110:14 111:11

113:20 115:1

134:17 137:13

153:21 155:18

157:10,12 172:3

wants 12:21 40:20

49:22 238:15

washer 112:12

washing 112:10

Washington 1:10

wash-down 30:8

272:13

wasn't 52:5 70:21

129:1 149:10

156:15,21 174:13

176:1 184:3 204:6

243:7 258:13

324:11

watch 91:22 109:6

109:6

watt 101:13

watts 97:3 101:15

228:19 229:4,5,19

229:20,21 230:7

230:15

way 8:10 16:15

30:1 34:4 44:11

48:19 76:4 78:18

78:19 81:9 89:4

100:6 103:21

119:11 178:13

186:8 189:16

191:6,11 218:20

241:17 244:13

254:12,17 264:19

274:14 277:17

322:7

ways 153:5 173:11

254:6

wear 109:10,21

213:18

Web 12:7 266:15

283:7,8 286:6

290:14,14 303:16

WEG 2:4 5:16

57:12,12 76:12,22

79:13 81:17 82:5

128:10 223:8

244:2 274:1

295:13

weigh 17:21 32:18

weight 223:14

224:12 225:2

weighted 256:17

257:1

welcome 3:3 4:4,13

4:16,20 161:16

162:15 214:4

273:18 297:6

welcomes 17:4

122:18 197:19

199:10 210:9

215:10 217:7

266:16 269:14

315:20

went 83:1 86:5 87:9

105:1 110:1

136:11 162:4

177:14 190:8

195:12 213:17

241:9 286:11

weren't 83:5 88:2

West 60:6 251:17

we'll 8:9,14 11:15

13:10,11 108:17

109:7,20 111:14

116:9 128:1

133:13 167:8

213:19 223:11,11

277:7,17 290:10

325:14

we're 7:10 8:11

12:5,12 15:8

17:10 18:19 26:6

28:2 29:18 52:10

59:19 62:6 64:17

75:18 77:16 78:7

87:10 89:19

103:21,22 110:5

110:16 111:6,7,21

111:22 112:2,6,9

114:11,17 115:2

117:7 126:4,16

127:4 134:2 139:4

149:1 152:10

183:9 185:5,16

206:2,6 214:8,15

214:17 220:22

221:1 241:10,11

245:21,22 246:1

274:10 279:5

287:17 288:22

297:16,19 320:11

320:13,17 321:5

325:18

we've 4:9 60:18

86:14 96:18 115:4

192:13 328:5

wholesaler 216:9

218:5,8,11

whole-day 306:4

widely 46:18 318:4

wider 164:11

wild 162:7

WILLIAM 1:20

2:9

wind 106:16 112:1

117:2 155:1

windage 95:14

106:15,15,16,16

107:1 116:21

117:3,4 227:9

231:18

winder 130:4

winders 130:1

winding 127:5

154:11 155:2,5

windings 46:3

106:18

wire 96:4 154:9,21

155:8 315:15

wires 154:2

wish 9:3 11:12

166:5 214:14

229:10 325:21

wishes 11:4 293:8

wishing 135:13

wonder 209:14

wondered 56:3

177:8

wondering 55:14

83:21 125:8 126:1

182:14 183:17

234:14 320:11,14

Woodworking

272:21

word 49:14 72:18

117:3 314:4

wording 74:21

words 48:8 117:2

146:7 323:11

work 4:14 74:22

95:8 110:7 124:1

130:8 133:6 148:3

169:1 173:14

179:19 185:3

325:1,14 326:19

working 80:10

111:21,22 112:1,7

131:16 176:19

288:11 324:12

325:20

works 110:8

world 60:5 86:18

99:16 304:1

worth 182:2

wouldn't 123:18

200:13 219:10

272:4,4,9

write 76:16

writing 54:3

105:11 192:14

written 11:10 17:1

28:21 29:1,1 47:6

49:8 59:3 71:13

78:16 126:10

165:5 176:21

192:14 290:22

305:13

wrong 72:18

116:14

wrote 206:22

w-i-n-d-a-g-e

116:20

Y

Yeadon 1:20,20

151:17,17 152:4,4

152:5,20

year 15:18 18:16

19:2 46:17 90:8

90:18 163:13

269:20 273:14

278:2 303:7

years 20:13,15,17

20:18 45:15 90:3

113:16 121:14

162:1,9,10,13

163:10 257:14,15

262:17,21 264:14

264:17,20,21

265:3 267:3 273:4

285:16 324:12

yelling 82:21

yesterday 4:4,10

14:18 52:6 66:1

yesterday's 19:6

51:16 63:7 111:8

yield 164:14

yields 190:20

young 114:19

y-axis 190:3

Z

zero 235:10 263:8,9

281:19 285:14

zeroes 275:20

276:7

$

$1.50 162:3

$13.55 167:3

$18.02 166:15

167:3

$23.43 167:4

$252 262:22

$252.90 256:8

258:4

$29 166:16 259:10

$75 170:22

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
(202) 234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 369

0

0.5-horsepower

262:15

0625 236:13

07 14:16

08 93:20

09 303:4

1

1 193:4,5,10 194:4

195:13 200:8

201:5,15 207:8,13

238:8 266:4,10

281:2,21

1E-245 1:9

1,000 65:21

1,709 177:5

1,785 177:8

1.0 236:8

1.27 222:10

1.37 222:10

1.53 223:2

1.8 176:15,20

1:00 8:8,14

1:30 8:16

1:44 214:2

1:45 213:8,20

10 30:4 53:8 112:18

282:18

10th 14:5,15

10-Ks 168:15

10-5 39:7 40:3

41:20 44:21

10-6 39:12 45:2

10:15 7:20

10:25 94:14

10:40 110:1

10:55 109:8

100 125:16 155:12

169:21 187:14

188:6,15,20

190:12

100-200 174:22

1000 1:10

105 121:5

11 3:5

11:00 109:7,8,18

110:2

112 103:2 176:10

113 62:2

12 93:13 303:2

12A 290:13

12B 290:14

12-32 35:21 36:22

12-32.2 155:21

12-42 27:4

12-47 27:3

12:30 110:7

12:45 213:3

12:46 213:22

125 326:11

126 325:5

13 19:3 93:13

212:16

139 3:8

14 148:8

140 84:12

15 109:21 112:18

121:13 135:14

138:4 204:2,11,19

205:13,21 212:2,4

212:15

16 47:18 50:16,21

17 31:22 264:20

265:3

1780 178:16

19 50:12

1992 13:18 52:11

1996 67:9

2

2 16:14 38:4 51:8

179:19 187:20

209:19 227:7

259:9 266:4

274:19 276:4

281:2 282:16

2nd 305:20

2,000 65:21

2,500 280:14

2.17 222:22

2.4 284:1

2.5 237:22

2.7.1 274:19

2.93 223:6

2.95 223:5

2:00 8:17

20 10:3 55:4 109:7

121:13 159:11

20-horsepower

175:11

200 26:19 52:14

88:13 98:17 102:6

229:4,5,20 241:9

2000 278:2

2001 163:8

2002 90:3 165:18

165:22

2003 90:3

2006 14:6 44:19

90:2 163:9

2007 14:15 73:16

90:8,18 93:21

201:21

2008 14:22 93:20

94:1 249:10,18

253:3

2009 1:6 19:1,13

2010 20:1 72:6

2015 20:2,8 72:9

268:16,18

2016 46:17

2030 252:15

2045 268:16,19,22

269:4 270:13

278:19,21 279:16

2055 268:18

214 3:10

22nd 14:22

23 3:6

24 101:10 102:2

25 129:6 187:20

189:3 235:12,20

236:12,13

250 87:13 125:13

262 3:12

267 3:14

27 103:11

28 166:16 167:5

28-pole 112:10

289 3:15

29 108:11 109:1

29.99 167:5

3

3 50:20,21 51:7

77:10 88:11

124:19 187:20

201:9 206:13,18

206:19 207:9,14

238:7 262:15

265:2 266:5 281:2

3,000 65:21

3-digit 84:12

3-phase 87:3

264:18

3-13 79:1

3-33 97:1

3:00 8:20

3:30 9:8

3:56 328:13

30 1:6 10:3 167:4

219:1

30th 18:16 19:12

31 30:5 42:7 53:9

117:8,11

32 124:19

320 3:19

324 3:20

33 130:17 166:14

167:2

34 229:7

35 219:10

36 132:11,19 137:8

4

4 3:3 53:8 56:17

75:13 77:11 125:1

187:20 201:9

266:6

4-pole 42:1 74:3

87:4 142:4,5,7,9

169:14 181:9

4-5 119:3

4-7 119:15

4.3.11 119:15

4.3.2 136:8

4.3.7 119:4

4:00-ish 214:11,12

40 42:3

40-year 256:21

42 51:4 75:20

42-frame 76:2

47 42:8 161:21

170:21

48 50:21 51:4 71:5

73:15 75:20 85:1

85:7 86:9,12

48-frame 50:20

74:4 76:2 84:19

86:5,16 142:7

181:19

5

5 99:5 109:8,17

145:15 157:2

188:3 190:2

192:21 201:9

209:6,13 219:3

236:10,11

5A 136:19 144:8

158:11 172:10

5A.1.2 158:12

5-A 209:8

5.5.2 172:12

5.6.2 188:2 190:2

5.89 257:3

5.92 257:2

50 42:21 60:15 98:3

101:4 102:2

125:17 131:13

170:3 234:15

235:11

50:1 41:13

500 229:6,21

54 174:15

56 71:6 85:1,2,8

86:9,13

56-frame 51:4

70:14 73:16 74:3

82:7 85:21 86:14

87:4 88:9 89:4

126:16 142:4,5,9

158:14,14 169:14

181:10

58 42:3

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
(202) 234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 370

6

6 221:4,7,9,11,13

221:18,18 227:6

230:2 231:11

236:10 262:16

264:17,20 272:10

6-pole 187:21

6-1 233:2

6-2 230:2 232:21

6:00 214:7

60 42:2 60:15 93:11

98:22 102:5,16

62.3 207:15

65 218:22 234:3

66 232:13 233:2

234:3

66-frame 51:9

67 234:3

7

7 13:14 221:16

70 93:11 234:16

70.8 207:14

72 62:17 64:15

65:18,19 66:14

75:12 77:10,11

73.6 209:19

74 87:5 88:7

75 154:6 236:10

75.8 207:11

750 229:19,20

76 257:22

77 257:22

78 88:8 202:10

203:1 260:8

78.5 87:8

79 260:7

8

8-inch-long 84:21

80 85:8

81 263:13 265:17

265:19

84 207:9

84.0 202:11 238:9

85 85:8 88:8 172:13

202:5 203:4

85.5 87:9 200:17

259:9

861 249:2

87 48:5 90:21 276:2

89 278:7

9

9th 15:2

9-inch-long 84:21

9:00 1:9

9:04 4:2

90 56:18 57:14

180:17,20 279:1

90s 110:18,20

92 177:14 286:3

950 229:20

EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5
EERE-2007-BT-STD-0007 COMMENT 08.5