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### ;;;rRARl'MEN TO F UNITE D STATE S O F AMERICA• ^i;j^f(-^JSE W

+ + + + + 

### 'Oi

l FEB- ! P U:2 1 DEPARTMENT O F TRANSPORTATION OFFIC E O F HEARING S
+ + + + + HEARIN G
+ + + + + 

# RECEIVED

DE C 

### 2020 « 

## HEAWN G DOCKE T

I nth e Matte r of : SKYWES T AIRLINES , IN C ^ 

### FA

ADocke t Nos . CP09NM001 2 2009NM06004 2 DM S No . FAA-2009-097 9 Thursday , Decembe r 2 , 201 0 U.S . Ta xCour t Wallac e F . Bennet t Federa l Bldg . Courtroom

522 3 12 5 S . Stat e Stree t Sal t Lak e City , Uta h8413 8
Th e above-entitle d matte r came o n fo r furthe r hearing , pursuan t t o Recess , a t 9:0 0 a.m . BEFORE : RICHARD C . GOODWI N Unite dState s Administrativ e LawJudg e U.S . Departmen t o f Transportatio n Offic e o f Hearings , Room 541 1 40 0 Sevent hStreet , S.W . Washington , D.C . 2059 0

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APPEARANCES : O nbehal f o f th e Complainant : SCOT T R . MORRIS , ESQ . Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n Northwes t Mountai nRegio n Offic e o f Regional Counse l 160 1 Lin dAvenue , S W Renton , Washingto n9805 7 (425 ) 227-141 7 O nbehal f o f th e Respondent :



# r ^ TOD D C . EMERSON , ESQ . Directo r - Governmen t & SkyWes t Airline s 44 4 Sout hRive r Roa d St . George , Uta h8479 0 (435 ) 634-353 0 Lega l Affair s

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WITNESSES : Joa nPeterso n Jaso nGrai n (recalled ) CONTENT S

DIREC T CROS S REDIREC T RECROS S 36 8 39 3 39 8 40 2 40 5 41 3

EXHIBITS : MAR K REC D COMPLAINAN T 1 3 40 8 41 3 RESPONDEN T 1 28 4 38 4

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 PROCEEDING S (9:0 6 a.m . JUDG E GOODWIN : Counsel , ar e yo u read yt o proceed :

MR . EMERSON : Yes , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , You'r e goin g t o cal l th e witnes s then ?

MR . EMERSON : Ye s JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . A s w e discusse dyesterday , that' s ho wwe'l l handl e it . S o yo u wan t t o cal l th e witness , please .

MR . EMERSON : Yes . SkyWes t call s Joa nPeterson .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Rais e you r righ t hand . JOANPETERSON , RESPONDENT' S WITNESS , SWOR N

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Pleas e b e seated . Woul dyo u stat e you r ful l nam e an d spel l you r firs t an dlas t name , please .

TH E WITNESS : Joa nPeterson , J-o
a-n , P-e-t-e-r-s-o-n .

JUDG EGOODWIN : Than k you .

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S t 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Counsel . TH E WITNESS : Sa ytha t again , JUDG E GOODWIN ; I jus t sai d "Counsel. " Fro m

tim e t o time , Ms . Peterson , i f w e sto p wit htestimony , it' s s o th e cour t reporte r ca nspel l certai nthings .

TH E WITNESS : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : G o ahead . MR . EMERSON : You r Honor , d o yo u min di f I remai nseate dfo r th e examination ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : That' s fine . MR . EMERSON : Ms . Peterson , ca n yo u se e me ? TH E WITNESS : I can ,

DIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . EMERSON :

Q

Office . Ms . Peterson , wher e d o yo u work ?

A t th e FAA— Ho wlon g - - I' msorry . G o ahead .

• - SkyWes t Certificat e Managemen t

Ho wlon g hav e yo u worke dthere ?

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2 

### 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Twent yyear s Wha t ar e you r jo bdutie s and responsibilitie s a t the FAA ? A Presently , I a mth e Ai r Cre w ProgramManager , whic hoversee s chec k airme n anddesignate d examiner s a t SkyWes t an d the training program . Q Ho wlong hav e yo u hel dtha t position ? ASinc e abou t 2003 . Q I s on e o f you r jo b responsibilitie s t o performElemen t Performanc e Inspections ? AYes . Q Ho wmanyo f thos e hav e yo u performe dove r the cours e o f you r career ? AI couldn' t tel l yo u that . Q Ca nyo u estimate ? A Eigh t t o ten , approximately . Q You'v e receive d training o nho wt o performanElemen t Performanc e Inspection ? AYes .
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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q D o yo u fee l competen t an d

qualifie dt o perfor mthose ? AYes . Q Fro mtim e t o time , ar e yo u stil l calle do nt o perfor ma nElemen t Performanc e Inspection ? AYes . Q Di dyo u d o a nElemen t Performanc e Inspectio ni nFebruar yo f 2009 ?

Ye s Q O no r abou t Februar y10th ? AYes . Q Ca nyo u tel l m e wha t yo u recal l abou t tha t Elemen t Performanc e Inspection ? Wha t tim e di di t begin ? ARoughl yabou t eigh t o'cloc k til l
aroun dte nt o 9:00 . Q Wher e di di t occur ? AA t th e Sal t Lak e Cit yAirport , wes t o f th e E concourses . Q D o yo u remembe r th e spo t o r location ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 A

that . No , I don' t remembe r th e numbe r o f

There' s a ma p you'l l se e her e o f th e Sal t Lak e Internationa l Airport . I f yo u loo k closely, you'l l se e a re dstickl e note , a gree nstickl e note .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Ms . Peterson , i f yo u nee dt o ge t u p lik e me , i f yo u nee dt o g o

TH E WITNESS : Well , I probabl ydo . JUDG E GOODWIN : I don' t kno wabou t you , bu t eve nwit hglasse s o nI' mhavin g troubl e seein g th e map .

TH E WITNESS : No wI nee dthes e othe r glasses .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Loo k a t th e ma p an dthe ni f yo u woul dg o t o th e stan d becaus e - - th e reaso ni s th e cour t reporte r ha s difficult ypickin g u p you r voic e whe n you'r e there .

TH E WITNESS : Okay . I' mtryin g t o fin dth e E concourse .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 (Pause. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Emerson , yo u ma ywan t t o mov e th e ma p ove r close r s o - - i n cas e - - i f you'r e goin g t o refe r t o i t again . Se e i f yo u ca nd o i t withou t droppin g it .

Okay . Now , Mr . Emerson , yo u ma y repea t you r question . B YMR . EMERSON : Q Ms . Peterson , d o yo u remembe r wha t spo t o r locatio nyo u performe dyou r Elemen t Performanc e Inspectio no nFebruar y10th , 2009 ? AI t wa s approximatel yi nth e are a wher e th e re d th e re dsticke r i s ther e

concourse?

location ?

car . Q Tha t woul dhav e bee nwes t o f th e E

Yes . Ho wdi dyo u arriv e a t tha t

I drov e ove r i nth e Governmen t

Di dth e Governmen t ca r hav e marking s o ni t tha t - •

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 A Yes . woul didentif yi t a s

Governmen t car ? AYes , i t did . Q Okay . An djus t fo r proces s here , Ms . Peterson , g o ahea dan dle t m e finis hth e questio nan dthe nyo u ca nanswe r an dtha t wil l hel p th e cour t reporte r kee p i t straight .

You'r e smar t enoug ht o kno wth e answer s befor e I eve nfinish , bu t yo u stil l hav e t o le t m e finish .

Di dyo u se e anyothe r - - di dyo u se e anyvehicle s i ntha t are a othe r tha n airplane s bein g de-iced? AYes . Q Wha t di dyo u see ? AI sa wa SkyWes t va nparke dther e

Q Wa s ther e anybod yi nth e van ? AYes . Q D o yo u kno wwh o wa s i nth e van ? ATylo r Lewis . als o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Di dyo u kno whi mb ysight ?

ANo . Q Ho wdi dyo u com e t o kno wtha t Tylo r Lewi s wa s i ntha t van ? AI ha d- - whe nI firs t pulle dup , I
sa wth e va nthere . I wen t ove r an daske di f wher e I wa s parke dwoul db e oka yan dh e introduce dhimsel f a t tha t time . Q Wer e - - di dyo u physicall ywal k
ove r t o hi s ca r o r jus t - - AYes . I did . Q Yo u did . An yothe r exchang e i n tha t conversation ? A No t i ntha t conversation , n o Q Yo u simpl yaske di f you r locatio n wa s okay , an dwh ydi dyo u as k tha t question ? AWell , I jus t wante dt o mak e sur e tha t I wasn' t goin g t o b e i nth e wa yo f any othe r vehicle s drivin g aroun dthere . Q Okay . Wh ywer e yo u performin g a n EP I o nFebruar y10th ? AI t wa s assigne dt o me .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Wer e th e condition s als o favorabl e

fo r a n EPI ? Ye s

Wha t wer e th e weathe r condition s lik e o n th e 10th ?

W e ha d ligh t sno wan d mist . Wa s sno waccumulatin g o n th e ground ;

airplanes ? Yes , i t wa s

Wa s i t accumulatin g o n th e

Ye s Q Coul dyo u tel l abou t ho wmuc hwa s accumulatin g o n th e airplanes ? AJus t a ver yligh t amount . Q Wa s i t enoug ht o cove r th e marking s o n th e airplane ? ANo . Q markings ? Yo u coul dstil l se e pain t an d

Ye s 

### Wa s i t als o raining ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 ATher e wa s - - yes .

Q Di dyo u mak e observation s the no f de-icin g operation s performe db ySkyWes t Airline s o nth e 10th ? AYes . Q Wha t di dyo u observe? AI observe dte naircraft , o f whic h si xaircraf t wer e de-ice dfro mth e win g roo t t o th e win g ti p an dth e remainin g wer e de-ice d fro mth e win g ti p t o th e win g root . Q Di dyo u tak e - - wh ydidn' t yo u tak e notic e o f th e directio no f th e spra y pattern ? Well , I notice don e wa s on e directio nan dthe nth e nex t on e wa s anothe r direction , s o tha t go t m yattention . Q Why ? AI t wa s different . Q Doe s i t hav e anysignificanc e t o yo u th e directio no f th e - - o f th e applicatio n o f th e de-icin g material ? AYes .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Why ?

ASpraying de-icing flui d fromth e roo t t o th e ti p coul d possibl yallo wflui d o r allo wic e and contaminant s t o come bac k int o th e win g roo t area . Q Wer e yo u familia r wit hStandar d Practic e 2800 , whic har e th e OpSpec s fo r SkyWes t de-icing procedures ? A Ye s Q Di d yo u believ e tha t spraying roo t t o ti p violate d th e OpSpecs ? A Sa

ytha t again , Q Di d yo u believ e tha t spraying the de-icing materia l from roo t t o ti p wa s a violatio no f th e SkyWes t OpSpec s fo r de-icing protocol ? AWell , 280 0 state s tha t theywil l sprayfromth e roo t ti p - - o r fromth e win g ti p t o th e roo t unles s it' s okaye d byth e PI C andth e OpSpec s stat e tha t SkyWes t wil l follow thei r de-icing procedure s i n thei r manual . Q I s tha t wh

yyo u too k specia l not e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 o f th e roo t t o ti p de-ic e application ? Ye s Q Di dyo u hav e a radi o wit hyo u tha t day ? AYes . Q Wer e yo u abl e t o monito r th e communication s betwee nth e cockpi t an dth e de

icin g crew ? AYes . Q Di dyo u eve r hea r a pilo t i n comman dorde r a deviatio nfro mth e standar d SkyWes t de-icin g protocols ? A No . Q Di dyo u hav e anyfurthe r contac t wit hTylo r Lewi s tha t day ?

Ye s Wha t wa s th e natur e o f tha t A

contact ? AA t on e point , h e cam e ove r t o m y vehicl e an daske dfo r m ynam e an daddres s an d phon e number . Q Di dyo u giv e i t t o him ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AYes , I did .

Q Di d yo u hav e an y othe r communicatio nwit hhim ?

No t tha t I believe , s o - - no t tha t I recal l Q Di d h e introduc e himsel f t o you ? AWell , h e di d initiall yth e firs t tim e tha t I wen t ove r t o th e vehicle . Q Di d h e tel l yo u wha t h e wa s doing ? ANo . Q H e didn' t tel l yo u hi s jo btitle ? ANo . Q H e didn' t tel l yo u wha t hi s responsibilitie s tha t da ywere ? ANo . Q Ha d yo u eve r me t hi mbefor e tha t day ? ANo . Q Yo u don' t kno wi f h e wa s a membe r o f managemen t

Q No ,

- - o r a front-lin e worker ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 A No . Di dh e giv e yo u hi s contac t information ? A

th e job ?

Q No . Di dh e tel l yo u tha t h e wa s ne wt o

No . D o yo u remembe r an yothe r interactio nwit hhi mtha t day ?

No . S o no wyou'v e ha d tw o interactions . Whe nyo u firs t go t there , yo u wante dt o chec k t o mak e sur e yo u weren' t i n th e wa yan d h e said , Yo u ar e fine . An d the n we'r e no wtalkin g abou t a secon dinteractio n wit hMr . Lewis . Abou t ho wlon g betwee nthos e tw o interactions ? A I don' t recal l Q Ca n yo u estimate ? ATwent yminute s maybe . I don' t reall yrecall . I don' t know . Q Okay . Som e tim e lapse dbecaus e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 there' s tw o differen t contact s wit hMr . Lewis ;

i s tha t right ? AYes . Q Wer e yo u abl e t o monito r de-icin g activitie s betwee nthos e tw o interaction s wit h Mr . Lewis ? AYes . Q I ntha t time , di dyo u vie wwha t yo u believe dt o b e deviation s fro mth e de

icin g OpSpecs? AI wasn' t sur e ther e wa s a deviatio na t tha t time . I jus t notice dtha t i t wa s differen t tha nwha t I ha drecalle d bein g i nthei r manual . Q Okay . An dth e difference s tha t yo u noticed , yo u ha dsee nthos e difference s b y th e tim e tha t Mr . Lewi s introduce dhimsel f t o yo u an daske dfo r you r contac t information?

Ye s 

### QDi dyo uinfor mMr
. Lewi s a t th e tim etha t

yo uha dobserve dthes edeviations ? No

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Abou t ho wlon g di d yo u continu e t o

observ e SkyWes t de-icing ? AApproximatel ysomewher e clos e t o nin e - - nin e o'clock . Q S o abou t 4 5 minutes ? AYes , approximately . Q The nwha t happened ? AI wen t bac k t o th e office . Q Woul dyo u tak e tha t blu e binde r that' s i n fron t o f you , th e smalle r one , an d fli p t o Ta b1 . D o yo u recogniz e thi s document ? A Q A Q A Ye s Ca nyo u tel l u s wha t i t is ? It' s a n inspector' s statemen t Wh o create dthi s statement? I did . I s tha t you r signatur e o n it ? Ye s Q An ddi d yo u creat e i t o n Februar y 10th , 2009 ? 

### Iactuall y typedthi s o nFebruar

y

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 17th . I date di t Februar y10t hbecaus e tha t

wa s th e dat e o f m yobservation . Q There' s tw o date s there , s o th e - - o nth e top , i t say s o nth e mornin g o f Februar y 10th . You'r e talkin g abou t whe ni t happened . AYes . An dthe n an dthe nyou r handwritin g o nth e botto mi s th e 10t ha s well ?

Q Ye s Bu t th e documen t itsel f wa s create do nth e 17th .

Ye s Q D o yo u kno wtha t - - tha t othe r inspector s fro myou r offic e observe dsimila r deviation s o nFebruar y17th ? AYes . Q I s tha t wh yyo u create dthi s documen t o nth e 17th ?

N o I create dthi s documen t o n th e 17t hbecaus e tha t wa s roughl yabou t th e tim e tha t I becam e awar e - - I wa s abl e t o ge t bac k int o th e manua l an dverif ytha t - - th e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 procedure s an dtha t I becam e awar e tha t ther e

wa s a deviatio nfro mthos e procedures . Q Th e las t lin e - - well , befor e w e ge t int o th e statemen t - -

MR . EMERSON : You r Honor , SkyWes t offer s Ta b1 a s Respondent' s Exhibi t 1 .

MR . MORRIS : N o objections . JUDG E GOODWIN : Respondent' s 1 fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Respondent' s 1 .

MR . EMERSON : Than k you . B YMR . EMERSON : Q statemen t Pleas e rea dth e las t lin e o f you r

A" I informe dth e Principa l Operation s Inspecto r tha t de-icin g an danti

icin g crew s wer e no t followin g procedure s outline di nthei r manua l regardin g spra y pattern s an dtechniques. " Q Wh o wa s th e Principa l Operation s Inspecto r o nFebruar y10th ? ANoa l Johnston .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Ho wdi dyo u infor mhi mo f you r

observations ? AI verball ytol dhi mo nth e 10t h whe nI cam e bac k t o th e offic e tha t I ha d observe dsom e procedure s I didn' t recal l an d tha t I woul dloo k int o it . An do nth e 17t h whe nI ha da chanc e t o ge t bac k int o th e manual , mad e tha t determinatio ntha t th e procedure s o nthos e si xaircraf t wer e contrar y t o thos e outline di nth e manual .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t wa s th e nam e o f th e gentlema ntha t yo u verball ytold ?

TH E WITNESS : Noa l Johnston . JUDG E GOODWIN : An dwh o i s he ? TH E WITNESS : Operation s Inspector . Th e Principa l

JUDG E GOODWIN : For ? TH E WITNESS : Fo r th e SkyWes t Certificat e Managemen t Office .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o wa s h e a FA A employee ? TH E WITNESS : Yes .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay ,

B YMR . EMERSON ; Q Ca nyo u spel l Noa l Johnston' s name , please ? AN-o-a-1 , J-o-h-n-s-t-o-n . Q Wa s Mr . Johnsto nyou r boss ? ANo . Q Wh o wa s you r boss ? Wh o wa s you r direc t superviso r mayb e I shoul dsay ? AW e ha da nactin g superviso r a t tha t time . I believ e i t wa s Pau l Ramirez . Q Di dyo u als o infor mPau l Ramire z o f you r observations ? AYes , I did . Q Wha t di dyo u tel l Mr . Ramirez ? AExactl ywha t I tol dNoal , tha t I ha dobserve dsom e procedure s differen t tha n wha t I ha drecalle dan dI wa s goin g t o loo k int o it . Q Yo u informe dhi m tha t yo u sa w-- JUDG E GOODWIN ; 

### Hol don . Ms 

### Peterson , Iknow thi s sound s lik eit' s turnin g

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### 38 7

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 int o a spelling bee , bu t Pau l i s P-a-u-1 .

Woul dyo u - -

TH E WITNESS : P-a-u-1 , Ramirez , R-a-m-i-r-e-z .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Thank you . B YMR . EMERSON : Q Di d yo u tel l Mr . Ramire z tha t yo u ha dsee nsi xSkyWes t aircraf t bein g de-ice d roo t t o ti p o nthe mornin g o f February10th ? AI don' t recal l i f I tol dhi mho w many , bu t I d o recal l tha t I tol d hi mI saw some airplane s tha t wer e de-ice d differentl y thanwha t I ha d recalled . Q Di dyo u vie wan yairplane s bein g -

- wher e th e de-icing procedure s starte do nthe righ t win g insteado f the lef t wing ? ANon e o nthe righ t wing . Q W e - - I'l l cal l i t a deviatio nfo r now , i f you'r e comfortabl e wit hthat . Th e onl ydeviatio ntha t yo u sawwa s de-icing material s being applie droo t t o ti p si xtime s o nthe mornin g o f the 10th ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Ye s

Q Ho wdi dMr . Ramire z respon dt o th e informatio ntha t yo u offere dhim ? AH e sai dokay . I tol dhi mI woul d loo k int o i t an di t wa s a ver ybus ymornin g whe nI go t bac k int o th e office . I recal l ther e bein g a lo t o f chaos . W e ha dactin g position s an dh e wa s fin e wit hwha t I ha d state dt o him , Q D o yo u kno wa t th e tim e whethe r Mr . Ramire z - - h e wa s you r supervisor ; i s tha t right ? - - a t th e time . AA nactin g supervisor . Q Wa s h e als o Jaso nGrain' s actin g supervisor ? I don' t kno wtha t

Ho wabou t Be nBlauer' s actin g supervisor ? AI don' t kno wthat . Q D o yo u kno wwh o thei r supervisor s wer e o nFebruar y10th , 2009 ? ANo .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Wher e doe s Noa l Johnsto nfi t int o

th e chai no f comman da t you r office ? AWell , he' s th e Principa l Ops . Inspecto r fo r th e certificate . Q D o yo u hav e a nunderstandin g wha t hi s jo bdutie s an dresponsibilitie s are ? AFo r th e mos t part . Q Wha t ar e those ? AT o overse e everythin g connecte d wit hth e certificate . An di f w e nee dguidanc e o nanything , h e sign s letters , h e ha s communication s wit hth e company , telecons . Q D o yo u eve r hav e communication s wit hth e company ? AYes . Q Wha t ar e th e natur e o f you r whe nI sai dth e company, I mea nSkyWes t Airline s A Q Ye s What' s th e natur e o f you r communication s wit hth e company ?

Mainl ywit hth e Directo r o f

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Training , overseein g chec k airme nan dexamine r

issues . Q I s i t you r practic e t o notif yth e compan ywhe nyo u se e potentia l violation s o f th e FAR s o r OpSpecs ? AYes . Q Doe s sometime s Mr . Johnsto nmak e thos e contact s a s wel l wit hth e compan yt o infor mo f potentia l violations ? ASometimes . Q Wh ydi dyo u tel l Mr . Johnsto n abou t th e discrepancie s tha t yo u ha dsee no n Februar y10th ? AWh ydi dI tel l hi mthat ? Q Yes . ABecaus e that' s wha t I observe dan d I ha dintention s o f researchin g th e manua l t o se e i f i nfac t i t wa s a deviatio nfro m thos e procedures . Q D o yo u hav e a responsibilit yt o repor t tha t t o him ? AWell , I fee l a nobligatio nt o d o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 that . Q I' mjus t intereste di nwh yyo u

informe dhim . Yo u hav e a direc t report , you r boss , Mr . Ramirez . I understan dwh yyo u woul d infor mhi mo f that . Wha t I' maskin g i s ther e a protoco l o r procedur e i nyou r offic e wher e th e PO I i s mad e awar e o f variation s - - A Wel l - - Q - - tha t th e inspector s se e a s the y d o surveillance ? AWell , w e wan t t o mak e th e PO I
awar e o f issue s goin g o nwithi nth e certificate . Q An dthe nd o yo u kno wwha t th e PO I doe s wit htha t informatio nonc e it' s received ? AI don' t alway s kno wtha t answer . N o . I don ' t know . Q Yo u didn' t notif yanybod ya t SkyWes t Airline s o nth e 10t ho f th e deviation s tha t yo u observe di nth e de-icin g procedures , di dyou ? ANo .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q D o yo u kno wi f Mr . Johnsto n

informe danybod ya t SkyWes t o nth e 10th ? AI don' t believ e tha t h e did .

A Ho wabou t Mr . Ramirez ? I don' t believ e h e di deithe r Q D o yo u kno wwhe nth e CM O firs t gav e notic e t o SkyWes t o f th e deviation s i t
wa s observin g an dcoul dpotentiall yb e violations ? AI t wa s aroun dth e 17th , Q Ar e yo u familia r wit hOrde r 2150.3B ? AYes . Q Ca nyo u tel l u s generall ywha t tha t orde r is ? ATh e Complianc e an dEnforcemen t Manual . Q An di s tha t somethin g tha t FAA inspector s ar e traine don ? AYes . 

### QWer eyo utraine do nth e Enforcemen t

an dComplianc eManual ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 AYes .

Q D o yo u believ e you'r e require dt o follo wOrde r 2150.3B ? AYes . (Pause. ) MR . EMERSON : questions . You r Hono r N o furthe r

JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Morris . CROS S EXAMINATIO N B YMR . MORRIS : Q Inspecto r Peterson , I jus t hav e a coupl e follow-u p question s here . S o yo u g o t o th e airport . Yo u se e observations . An dyo u com e bac k o nth e 10t hbecaus e yo u se e som e possibl e discrepancie s whe nyo u ge t bac k t o you r office ; i s tha t a quic k summary ? AYes , Q An dthe no nth e afternoo no f th e 10t h- - an dI' mno t goin g t o ge t int o detail s

- - yo u receive dnotificatio no f a persona l tragedy ; i s tha t correct ?

Yes .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q An dbecaus e o f tha t an dothe r

persona l tragedie s tha t ar e happenin g durin g tha t tim e period , yo u wer e basicall you t o f th e offic e fro mth e 10t hunti l - - yo u ma yb e i nan dout , bu t yo u wer e prett ymuc hou t o f th e offic e unti l th e 17th ; i s tha t correct? AYes . Q Okay . Now , o nth e 10th , becaus e o f thes e othe r matters , yo u ha daccumulate da larg e amoun t o f wor k o nyou r des k whe nyo u di d
com e bac k i nth e offic e i nFebruary ; i s tha t correct? AYes . Q S o you r focu s wa s no t onl y performin g you r EPI s bu t gettin g caugh t u p o n al l thi s additiona l work ; i s tha t correct? A Yes . Q Okay . An di nyou r conversation s wit hyou r managers , wa s tha t mor e o f a passing . Hey , I sa wthes e deviations . I'l l ge t int o thi s later ? A Sa ytha t again .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q You r conversation s wit hNoa l

Johnsto nan dPau l Ramirez , whe nyo u tol d the m tha t yo u ha dobserve dthing s tha t wer e differen t tha nyo u ha dthough t yo u ha d- - tha t shoul dhav e bee ndone , i s i t th e practic e a t th e CM O the nfo r th e inspecto r wh o observe s thi s t o actuall yfollo wthroug han danalyz e i t t o determin e whethe r o r no t there' s a violation ? Yes . Q Okay . An donc e there' s a violation , i s tha t whe nyo u g o t o you r manage r an dyou r - - o r th e PO I an dsay . Okay , no wI
wan t t o ope nu p a nEI Rher e becaus e I thin k I'v e go t a violatio nnow ? AYes . Q Okay . An da s par t o f ou r process , th e forma l notificatio ntha t goe s t o th e compan yo f a possibl e violation , i s tha t submitte d- - somethin g calle da nLO I o r lette r o f investigation ? AYes .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Okay . S o ther e i s a procedur e t o

notif yth e compan ydurin g th e investigativ e proces s tha t ther e i s a potentia l violation ? AYes . Q An dpar t o f th e LO I - - th e reaso n fo r th e LO I i s t o ge t a respons e fro mth e compan ybecaus e the yma yhav e som e additional salien t fact s wher e ther e ma yno t i nfac t b e a violation ? A Ye s Q Okay . An dt o b e clear , a t th e 10th , prio r t o departur e o nth e - - yo u lef t th e offic e fo r thi s persona l matte r i nth e afternoo no f th e 10th ; i s tha t correct? AYes . Q I s i t fai r t o sa yyo u di dno t ge t
a chanc e t o determin e whethe r o r no t a nactua l violatio nha doccurre do nth e 10th ? AThat' s correct . Q Okay . Yo u kne wtha t ther e wa s - - yo u ha dobserve dsomethin g tha t wa s differen t tha nwha t yo u though t i t shoul dhav e been , bu t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 yo u wer e no t sur e tha t ther e wa s a violation ?

Q Tha t i s correc t Okay . An dgettin g t o I believ e it' s - - i s i t Ta bA , Mr . Emerson ?

MR . EMERSON : Ye s - - 1 . MR . MORRIS : Ta b1 JUDG E GOODWIN : Respondent' s 1 B YMR . MORRIS : Q Respondent ' s 1 , you r agen t statement , thi s i s a statemen t yo u sai d yo u ha dprepare do nth e 17th ? AYes . Q Okay . Now , o nth e botto mhere , it' s date dth e 10th , though . Ca nyo u tel l m e agai nwh ytha t - - wh ytha t is ? AWell , I date di t th e 10t hbecaus e tha t wa s th e dat e o f th e observations . Q Okay . ATha t wa s m yerror . I shoul dhav e date dtha t th e 10t h- - o r th e 17th . O nth e 17th , whe nI becam e awar e afte r reviewin g th e manua l tha t th e procedure s wer e contrar yt o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 th e manual , I di dinfor mth e Principa l Ops .

Inspecto r tha t thos e procedure s wer e no t i n thei r manual .

Okay , S o yo u fille dthi s ou t afte r yo u talke dt o th e PO I o nth e 17t han d said . Hey , I'v e go t a proble mhere ? AYes . Q Okay . An djus t t o b e clear , whe n yo u wer e a t th e tarma c an deve nu p throug h- - unti l th e 17th , yo u di dno t kno wtha t wha t yo u observe dwa s a violation ? AThat' s correct . MR . MORRIS : Nothin g further , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : An yredirec t base d
o nth e question s fro mCounsel ?

MR . EMERSON : Yes . REDIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . EMERSON : Q Ms . Peterson , Mr . Morri s aske dyo u a questio nabou t you r absenc e an dtha t tha t
wa s du e t o som e persona l famil ytragedy .

Yes .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Di dyo u mak e Mr . Ramire z o r Mr .

Johnsto nawar e o f th e fac t tha t yo u wer e sufferin g persona l traged ytha t wa s gonn a tak e yo u awa yfro m

th e office ? AYes , I did .

10th ? Di dyo u infor mthe mo f tha t o nth e

Yes , I did . Q Di dthe yunderstan dyo u woul db e doin g n o wor k o nth e 10t ha t least ? AYes . Q An dlikel yfo r th e res t o f th e week ? I don ' t kno wwha t the ywer e thinkin g there . I - - I tol dthe mI woul dge t t o thi s a s soo na s I could . I ha da lo t o f issue s goin g o ni nm ylif e a t tha t tim e an dI didn' t ge t bac k t o thi s cas e o r t o reviewin g tha t manua l unti l th e 17th . Q Bu t yo u gav e the mnotic e tha t yo u woul db e doin g n o wor k o nth e deviation s tha t yo u ha djus t observe ddu e t o thi s persona l

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 tragedy '

A I tol dthe mI woul dloo k int o thi s jus t a s soo na s I could , Q Bu t tha t certainl ywasn' t goin g t o b e o nth e 10th . ANo . Q O r th e 11th ? AI ha dplanne dt o ge t t o i t jus t a s soo na s I could . I t wa s th e 17t hbefor e I coul dge t bac k t o it , Q Wer e you r - - wa s Mr , Ramire z awar e the ntha t yo u wer e no t i nth e offic e o nth e 11th ? AI don' t kno wthat , Q Di dyo u - - well , o nth e day s yo u missed , i t sound s lik e yo u misse dabou t seve n day s o f work ? AI wa s i nan dou t o f th e office . I
wa s no t focuse do n- - o nwor k whe nI wa s i n th e office . I ha da numbe r o f occurrence s goin g o ni nmylif e tha t ha dm e distracted . Q I understand , Ms , Peterson . An dI

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 a mno t goin g t o as k yo u abou t those . Bu t I am

intereste do nwhethe r you r supervisor s ha d notic e tha t yo u woul db e doin g n o wor k becaus e o f thos e tragedie s a t leas t i nth e nea r future ? AI' msur e the ywere . I tol dthe mI woul dle t the mkno wjus t a s soo na s I foun d
ou t wha t I eventuall yha dcom e u p with . Q Yo u gav e the mtha t notic e s o tha t the ywoul dkno wtha t yo u wouldn' t b e aroun dt o d o th e wor k tha t woul db e assigne dt o yo u tha t week ; i s tha t right ?

Probably . Sur e Hav e th e opportunit yt o manag e th e caseloa di nyou r absence ? AM ycas e - - myworkloa dsa t o nm y des k unti l I - - til l I returned . Q S o you r caseloa dan dwor k wa s not , a s fa r a s yo u know , redistribute do r assigne d t o othe r agent s i n- - ANo . 

### Q- - you r

absence ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 ANo .

Q Yo u sai dyo u wer e i n an d ou t o f th e offic e tha t week . Di d yo u eve r spen don e ful l da ya t th e CM O betwee n- -

I did . Q A Q A th e 10t han d th e 17th ? I did . Whic hda ywa s that ? I don' t recal l MR . EMERSON : That' s all . Than k

TH E WITNESS : Okay , JUDG E GOODWIN : That' s all ? MR . MORRIS : No , sir . I hav e som e follow-o nbase do n thos e question s you .

questions . JUDG E GOODWIN : Jus t base do n th e

MR . MORRIS : Yes , si r RECROS S EXAMINATIO N B YMR . MORRIS : Q Dealin g wit hth e supervisors , th e supervisor s the ndidn' t hav e you r statemen t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 abou t wha t yo u observe dunti l th e 17th ; i s

tha t correct? AThat' s correct . Q Al l the yha dwa s som e generalitie s tha t yo u ha d- -

MR . EMERSON : Objection . Leading . B YMR . MORRI S

- - notice dsom e discrepancies , MR . MORRIS : I' mcrossing . Ha d

som e discrepancies .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , bu t it' s als o beyon dth e scope . She' s testifie d repeatedl ytha t sh e wrot e th e statemen t o nth e 17th , date di t th e 10th , an di t reflecte dwha t sh e - - th e informatio ntha t sh e ha dconclude d afte r doin g a ninvestigation .

MR . MORRIS : Well , le t m e rephras e i t thi s way . You r Honor . B YMR , MORRIS : Q Prio r t o th e 17th , woul dyou r supervisor s hav e anyide a a s t o th e discrepancie s tha t yo u observe dbac k o nth e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 10th ? A No , Okay , MR . EMERSON : Well , Ms . Peterson , tha t can' t b e true .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Well , that' s th e Court' s hear denough . We'r e goin g ove r groun dtha t we'v e plowe dbefore . M s Peterson , than k yo u fo r comin g in . I' m goin g t o excus e th e witness . I' mgoin g t o instruc t you , Ms . Peterson , no t t o discus s you r testimon ywit hanybod yprio r t o th e conclusio n o f th e hearing .

TH E WITNESS : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : Than k you . Unles s anybod yha s reaso nfo r he r t o stay .

MR . MORRIS : No , sir . (The witnes s wa s excused. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : D o yo u hav e any- - anybod yhav e anyrebutta l o r - -

MR . MORRIS : D o yo u hav e an ymore ? MR . EMERSON : N o . I don ' t hav e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 an yfurthe r witnesses . You r Honor , MR , rebuttal , sir . MORRIS : hav e shor t

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Okay . Ms . Peterson' s stil l i nth e courtroom . Sh e doesn' t hav e t o sta yunles s sh e want s t o i f she' s go t - -

MR . MORRIS : We'r e he r ride , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , okay . Tha t wil l teac hher . Al l right .

MR . MORRIS : I recal l Inspecto r Grain . JASO NGRAIN , COMPLAINANT' S WITNESS , PREVIOUSL YSWORN

JUDG E GOODWIN : Inspecto r Grain , I'l l remin dyo u tha t you'r e stil l unde r oath ,

TH E WITNESS : Yes , sir . Than k you . DIREC T EXAMINATIO N B YMR . MORRI S 

### QInspecto r

Grain , Ijus t

wan t some clarificatio nbase do nth etestimon yo f

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 anothe r witnes s i nth e Respondent' s case .

Describ e fo r us , jus t t o b e clear , wha t wa s th e weathe r an dth e exten t o f anycontaminant s tha t yo u sa wo nth e aircraft s o nFebruar y 17th ? I believ e I state dpreviousl yi n testimon ytha t th e - - th e temperatur e varie d betwee n3 3 an d3 6 degrees . Tha t wa s verifie d throug ha blu e ribbo npackag e o f th e weathe r fro mth e Nationa l Weathe r Servic e o r NOAAt o b e specific . Th e weathe r durin g th e tim e fram e tha t I wa s ther e o nth e 17t hshowe d ligh t sno wonl yan dtha t i s als o wha t w e observed . A s fa r a s contaminant s o nth e airplane , the ywoul dhav e bee ns o minima l tha t i t wa s no t eve nvisibl e t o th e nake dey e a t 4 0

- - 3 0 t o 4 0 yard s away . Q Okay . An ds o di dyo u se e any contaminant s blo wove r fro mth e lef t win g t o th e righ t win g roo t are a durin g th e - - durin g th e tim e o f you r observations ?

No .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q S o ther e wa s n o reaso nt o star t a t

th e roo t are a o f th e righ t win g give nth e weathe r tha t occurre dtha t day , eve ni f yo u accep t th e premis e tha t the yma ydea l wit h that ? N o Tha t woul dno t hav e bee n applicabl e for , a s w e pointe dout , th e "may " claus e that' s i nparagrap h1 4 o f tha t manua l tha t wa s brough t up . State s tha t the y"may " spra yfro mth e rea r i nth e even t tha t ther e i s contaminan t i nth e cavitie s o f th e fligh t control s i nth e back . I t doe s no t addres s th e root , bu t ther e wa s nothin g observe d t o b e sprayin g i ncavitie s o r a nee dt o b e sprayin g a t th e roo t du e t o blowover . Q Okay . Now , ther e wa s testimony, i f I recal l correctly, fro mth e superviso r - - th e groun dcre wsuperviso r tha t h e recalle d th e sno wha dactuall ypicke du p durin g th e secon dbatch . I s tha t you r recollectio no r reflecte di nth e Nationa l Weathe r report ? AAr e yo u sayin g th e secon dtim e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 tha t Inspecto r Blaue r an dI wer e a t Spo t 21 ? Ye s N o Th e sno wintensit yha dno t change da t al l no r - - no r wa s ther e al l o f a sudde na nee dt o b e lookin g a t alternativ e procedure s du e t o a larg e amoun t o f contaminan t o r blowove r o r anythin g lik e it .

C-13 . A her e Okay . Now , I wan t yo u t o tur nt o

I d o no t hav e a C-1 3 i nth e binde r

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u ca napproach . MR . MORRIS : I'v e go t anothe r one . MR . EMERSON ; Yo u d o It' s th e las t pag e o f you r whit e binder . It' s i n there . TH E WITNES S O h okay . It' s jus t - - I'l l pu t i t i nthere . I d o hav e that . B YMR . MORRI S 

### QOkay
. Now, yo ureceive dthi s a s par t o f you r investigation ; i s tha t correct ? A 

### Yes , sir
.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 An dthi s wa s - - yo u receive dthi s

sometim e afte r Februar y17th ?

Q Yes . Correct . I nfact , thi s wa s receive d sometim e afte r yo u ha dalread yprepare dyou r agent' s statemen t i nthi s case ; i s tha t correct? I d o no t recal l that , bu t m y- - I don' t recall . Q Okay . Now , lookin g a t th e statemen t dealin g - - ther e - - Mr . Lewi s indicate s abou t tw o third s o f th e wa ydow ni n thi s statemen t o r reads , " I wa s stil l workin g o ntryin g t o fi xth e issue s wit hsom e peopl e o nth e de-ic e tea mtha t wer e stuc k i nthei r ol dway s an dmos t o f the mwer e fixin g thes e issues. " Yes . Q I nyou r conversatio nwit hMr . Lewis , wa s ther e anyintimatio nwhatsoeve r tha t yo u wer e talkin g abou t personne l issue s a s oppose dt o th e de-icin g procedures ?

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 APersonne l wa s no t mentioned . Th e

onl ythin g tha t reall ysupporte dth e ide a o f thi s statemen t tha t yo u rea dher e o f "fixe di n ol dways " an d"fixin g th e issues " i s h e commente dtha t th e compan yha dbee ninvolve d i nsendin g ou t multipl e memo s t o th e de-ic e crew s basicall yi nhelpin g the mthroug hthei r problems . Ha dther e bee npersonne l issues , I don' t thin k the ywoul dhav e bee nsendin g ou t genera l memos . Obviousl ywit hprocedur e issues , the nther e coul db e reminder s abou t th e procedure s tha t wer e i nthei r approve d manual . Q Durin g you r conversatio nwit hhim , wa s ther e anythin g t o dea l wit hth e personne l
a s oppose dt o th e procedure s tha t yo u observe d
o nth e 17t ha s fa r a s goin g fro mroo t t o tai l
o r fro m

lef t t o righ t wing ?

Q Nothin g regardin g personnel , no . Okay . An di f you' dtur nt o you r statemen t o nC-3 , secon dparagraph , abou t tw o third s o f th e wa ydown , i s thi s - - again , thi s

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1 - - C- 3 i s you r statement ? 2 ACorrect . 3 Q You r statemen t says , "H e state d 4 tha t h e wa s awar e o f th e proble man di s 5 workin g t o clea nu p th e procedura l area s o f 6 noncompliance. " S o wa s th e substanc e o f you r 7 conversatio nth e procedura l area s o f 8 noncomplianc e o r wer e the ysom e othe r topi c 9 whe nyo u wer e talkin g wit hhi m o nth e 17th ? 1 0 AW e didn' t ge t int o a lo t o f 1 1 specifics . Ou r conversatio nwa s somewha t 1 2 brief . Basically , th e wa yI worde di t her e 1 3 wa s mor e o r les s - - a t leas t t o my 1 4 recollectio n- - certainl yhavin g thi s bee n 1 5 writte ntw o day s afte r th e fac t wher e detail s 1 6 wer e ver yclear , I recal l hi s statemen t bein g 1 7 somewha t a s o f tha t tha t I wrote , tha t h e wa s 1 8 awar e o f th e issue s whe nw e notifie dhi mtha t 1 9 w e ha dsom e problems . H e state dtha t h e wa s 2 0 aware , tha t h e wa s workin g wit hhi s crew s t o 2 1 fi xthose , an dtha t h e hope dt o hav e al l o f 2 2 the mresolve db yth e en do f th e season .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Okay . An dthos e issue s i nth e

contex t o f you r conversatio nwer e th e procedure s o f th e de-icing ; correct? AYes . Q Dealin g wit hth e OpSpec s o f thi s case , OpSpec s accepted ? ar e the yapprove do r

Well , OpSpec s ar e issues .

A Issued . Issued . Th e thing s tha t ar e containe dwithi nth e OpSpec s sometime s dea l wit happrove dprograms , neve r accepted . Q S o i nlayman' s terms , i s th e OpSpec s basicall yth e contrac t betwee nth e FAA
an dth e - - an dSkyWes t ho wit' s authorize dt o conduc t it s operations ?

Q That' s correc t An di t i s no t fre e t o deviat e fro m tha t i nan yfashion , i s it ? AAn dI shoul dclarif ysomething . I sai dneve r something' s accepted . Tha t migh t b e a littl e bi t bold , s o I'l l sa yusually .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Bu t - - you r questio nagain ?

Q Th e compan yi s no t fre e t o deviat e fro mthos e approve do r accepte dprocedures , ar e they ? ANo t anythin g withi nthei r OpSpec , no . Ther e ar e regulation s tha t requir e the m -

- i nSectio n11 9 o f 1 4 C.F.R. , the yrequir e the mt o follo wthos e OpSpecs .

MR . MORRIS : Sir , I offe r C-1 3 fo r identificatio na s C-13 .

TH E WITNES S C.F.R , i s Cod e o f Federa l Regulations , i nth e even t w e nee d that . JUDG E GOODWIN : An yobjection ?

MR , EMERSON : No . MR . MORRIS : That' s al l I have , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : Complainant' s 1 3 - Complainant' s 1 3 fo r identificatio ni s receive dint o evidenc e a s Complainant' s 13 ,

CROS S EXAMINATIO N B YMR . EMERSON :

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Q Mr . Grain , I' m- - I gues s I' m

confused . Yesterda yyo u testifie dtha t a t th e tim e yo u talke dt o Mr . Lewis , yo u weren' t sur e tha t ther e wa s a violation . AThat' s correct . Q S o hi s respons e t o yo u yo u als o sai dwa s a naggravatin g circumstanc e becaus e i t seeme dt o yo u tha t the ykne wther e wa s a violatio nan dthe yweren' t doin g anythin g t o correc t it . AI don' t believ e I state dtha t the y kne wther e wa s a violation . I sai dtha t h e wa s awar e o f procedura l deviation s an dthat , a s a supervisor , di dno t mak e actio nt o correc t it . Q Bu t a t tha t time , yo u didn' t - - you'r e sayin g tha t yo u didn' t kno wtha t tha t
wa s a violatio n AThat' s correc t Wha t di dh e tel l yo u then ?
mean , we'r e talkin g procedura l violation s o r -

- we'r e usin g - - di dh e loo k a t yo u an dsay .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Yeah , I know . We'r e sprayin g th e airplan e i n

th e wron g direction? I s tha t wha t h e said ? ANo . H e didn' t sa ythat . Q An ddi dyo u tel l him . You'r e sprayin g th e airplan e i nth e wron g directio n an dh e said . Yeah , I know , I' mtryin g t o fi x it ? AI don' t believ e w e referre dt o direction . I believ e tha t w e sai dtha t spra y patter nprocedure s tha t w e ha dobserved , tha t
som e o f th e airplane s wer e no t don e properly . An dh e mentione dtha t h e wa s awar e o f th e issue . Q Yesterda yyo u wer e i nth e courtroo mwhe nMr . Lewi s testified ; i s tha t right ? AYes , sir . Q Yo u hear dhi msa ytha t yo u approache dhi man dsaid . Look s great . There' s on e smal l thin g I wan t t o brin g t o you r attention . Tha t soun dabou t right ? ASor t of . W e tol dhi mtha t overal l

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 41 6

tha t thing s looke doka yregardin g th e aircraf t departin g wit hclea nwin g concept . Bu t a s fa r a s procedurally , tha t w e ha dsom e issues .

MR . EMERSON ; N o furthe r question s

that ?

down .

Honor , JUDG E GOODWIN : Redirec t base do n

MR . MORRIS : Nothing . JUDG E GOODWIN : Sir , yo u ma yste p

TH E WITNESS : Than k you . You r

(The witnes s wa s excused, ) JUDG E GOODWIN ; An yfurthe r witnesse s o r testimon yo r evidence ?

MR , MORRIS : No , sir , MR , EMERSON : No , sir , JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , I assum e -- yo u don' t wan t t o brie f this , d o you , M r Emerson? MR . EMERSON ; I woul dlov e t o brie f this . You r Honor .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : I wan t t o mak e

sur e he' s payin g attention , Mr . Morris . I n th e pas t cases , yo u an dI hav e talke dabou t January . Yo u wan t t o - - I'm-
- a s I ge t older , I' mgettin g t o th e poin t tha t I don' t
wan t anybod yworkin g o nholidays . W e ge t s o fe wo f them . Mr . Emerson , I' mgoin g t o giv e Mr . Morri s th e firs t bit e her e becaus e I kno w you'v e go t tw o brief s du e th e en do f January , don' t you ? MR . MORRIS : I ca nd o the m finis htha t sam e wee k a s well , sir , becaus e I'v e go t tha t whol e wee k reserve dan dI' m wel l alon g o nth e - - on e o f thos e two .

JUDG E GOODWIN : D o yo u remembe r whic hcas e tha t was ?

MR . MORRIS : Yes , sir . Tha t wa s th e Federa l Expres s case . I' mwel l alon g i n tha t on e alread yan dth e - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Whic hFedE xcase ? MR . MORRIS : I ca ntel l yo u i non e secon dhere , sir . D o yo u wan t th e cas e

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 number , sir ?

number . JUDG E GOODWIN : Jus t th e DM S

MR . MORRIS : Jus t th e what , sir ? JUDG E GOODWIN : DM S fo r th e cas e number , yeah .

MR . MORRIS : Cas e Numbe r i s CP09NM0010 . Th e DM S numbe r i s FAA-2009-0721 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Mr . Emerson , let' s se e i f thes e date s wor k fo r you , Mr . Morri s ha s go t a cas e wher e I di da pre-hearin g - - post-hearin g briefin g schedul e wher e th e Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio nwoul dfil e thei r post-hearin g brie f o no r befor e Januar y 28th . M ythough t i nthi s situatio nwoul db e t o revers e th e sequenc e becaus e I assum e yo u wan t t o brie f - - d o yo u wan t t o brie f firs t o r second , Mr . Morris ?

MR . MORRIS : A s lon g a s I ge t las t bite , sir , I don' t care .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u alway s - - well , the nyo u probabl yshoul dg o first .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . EMERSON : H e ha s th e burden ,

That' s fine ,

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , Mr , Morris , i f acceptabl e t o Counsel , wha t w e woul dd o i s th e Agency' s post-hearin g brie f woul db e du e Januar y2 8th , Mr , Emerson , you r respons e woul db e du e Februar y14th , An dan yrebutta l woul db e du e b yth e Agenc yo nFebruar y21st , Doe s tha t wor k fo r th e tw o o f you ?

MR , MORRIS : Yes , sir . Work s fo r

me . MR , EMERSON : Yes , sir .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Now , normall yth e transcrip t ha s go t - - normall y th e cour t reporte r ha s abou t tw o week s t o d o th e transcript , bu t sh e send s i t t o Nea l Gros s wh o the nsend s i t t o ou r offic e wh o the nsend s i t t o docket , s o yo u tw o see mt o wor k wel l together . Wh ydon' t yo u coordinat e t o mak e sur e th e tw o o f yo u kno wwhe nth e transcrip t i s available . M yunderstanding , Mr . Morris , i s i t take s u p t o fou r week s befor e yo u ge t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 th e transcript . I gues s everythin g goe s t o

D.C . an dthe nD.C . mail s i t ou t t o Northwes t Mountain , I suspec t b yeithe r nex t wee k o r th e wee k after , th e exhibit s wil l b e i n docket s an dposted . Anythin g tha t w e nee dt o redact ? MR . MORRIS : I don' t thin k so , si r

MR . EMERSON : No , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . The nI wil l ge t a post-hearin g briefin g schedul e ou t hopefull yb ynex t wee k i norde r - -

MR . MORRIS : Sir , d o yo u wan t t o tak e tha t o r d o yo u wan t a photograp ho f it ? Ho wd o yo u wan t that ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Ca nI fol dit ? MR , MORRI S I don' t - - it' s o na background . JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , I'l l - - ho w di dyo u ge t - - yo u di di t locally , didn' t you ?

MR , MORRIS : Yes , sir . MR . EMERSON : Yo u hav e a cop yi n

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1 th e exhibits , 2 MR , MORRIS : C-1 . It' s jus t - - i t 3 i s a littl e bi t different . 4 JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , thi s one' s - 5 - I'v e go t a camera . I' m goin g t o tr ytakin g 6 a coupl e o f photo s o f it . An d i f I decid e t o 7 g o tha t way , I'l l shar e th e phot o wit hth e tw o 8 o f you . I'v e go t a digita l camer a wit hm e 9 tha t ma ywork . I f not , I ma yjus t tak e i t i n 1 0 an dsay . Listen , here . Say , Here , yo u figur e 1 1 ou t ho wt o mai l it . Yo u shoul dhav e see nth e 1 2 on e I ha di nLAX-3 , abou t fou r time s th e siz e 1 3 o f that . I ende du p leavin g i t i nth e 1 4 courtroo mt o pu t i nth e trash . 1 5 Anythin g els e i nthi s case ? 1 6 MR , MORRIS : No , sir , 1 7 MR , EMERSON : No , sir , 1 8 JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . Than k 1 9 you , gentlemen . An dwe'l l g o of f th e record . 2 0 Tha t conclude s th e hearing . 2 1 (Whereupon , a t 9:5 8 a.m. , th e hearin g 2 2 wa s adjourned. )

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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.co mabl e378: 6 381: 4

383:2 1 above-entitle d 364:1 8 absenc e398:2 0 401:15,2 2 accep t 407: 4 acceptabl e419: 4 accepte d412:7,1 2 412:21413: 3 accumulate d394: 9 accumulatin g 375:7,10,1 4 actin g 386:1 0 388:7,13,14,1 7 actio n414:1 4 activitie s 381: 5 actua l396:1 7 additiona l394:1 6 396: 7 addres s 378:2 0 407:1 2 adjourne d421:2 2 Administratio n 365: 4 418:1 3 Administrativ e 364:2 2 Affair s 365:1 5 afternoo n393:1 8 396:1 4 Agenc y419: 8 Agency' s 419: 5 agen t 397: 9 agent s 401:2 0 agent' s 409: 6 aggravatin g 414: 7 ahea d368:8,1 9 373: 6 Ai r 369: 4 aircraft 376:7, 8 385: 9 387: 8 416: 1 aircraft s 406: 4 Airline s 364:1 0 365:1 6 376: 4 389:1 8 391:1 9 airme n369: 5 390: 1 airplan e375:1 7 406:1 5 415:1, 5 airplane s 373:1 4 375:11,1 4 387:1 2 387:14415:1 1 airpor t 370:1 9 371: 4 393:1 3 allo w 377:3, 4 alternativ e408: 5 AMERIC A364: 1 amoun t 375:1 5 394:1 0408: 6 analyz e395: 7 answe r 373: 7 391:1 6 answer s 373:1 0 anti384:1 6 anybod y373:1 9 391:1 8 392: 2 404:12,16,2 0 417: 6 APPEARANCE S 365: 1 applicabl e407: 7 applicatio n376:2 0 378: 1 applie d387:2 1 approac h408:1 2 approache d415:1 9 approve d410:1 2 412:6,1 2413: 3 approximatel y 369:1 9 372:1 2 382:3, 6 are a 372:1 2 373:1 3 377: 5 406:2 0 407: 2 area s 411:5, 7 arriv e372:1 7 aske d374:6,1 5 378:2 0381:1 8 398:1 9 askin g 391: 5 assigne d374:2 2 401:11,1 9 assum e416:1 8 418:1 6 attentio n376:1 6

415:21417: 2 authorize d412:1 5 availabl e419:2 1 Avenu e365: 7 Aviatio n365: 4 418:1 3 awar e383:2 1 384: 1 391:7,1 2397:2 1 399: 2400:1 1 411:4,18,2 0 414:1 3 415:1 2 a- n367:2 1 a. m364:1 9 367: 2 421:2 1 B bac k 377: 4 382: 8 383:2 2385:4, 7 388: 6 393:14,1 5 394:1 1 399:1 8 400:1 0403:2 2 407:1 2 backgroun d 420:1 8 base d398:1 4 402:15,1 6 405:2 2 416: 6 basicall y394: 3 410: 7 411:1 2 412:1 4 batc h407:2 0 be e387: 1 behalf365:2,1 2 believ e377:10,1 3 379: 4 386:1 1 392:3, 5 393: 2 397: 3 406: 6 414:11415:8, 9 believe d381: 9 Be n388:1 7 Bennet t 364:1 5 beyon d403:1 2 binde r 382: 9 408:10,1 5 bi t 412:2 2421: 3 bit e417: 8 418:2 0 Blaue r 408: 1 Blauer' s 388:1 7 Bld g 364:1 5 blo w 406:1 9 blowove r 407:1 5 408: 7 blu e382: 9 406: 9 bol d412:2 2 bos s 386:6, 8 391: 4 botto m383: 8 397:1 3 brief411:1 2416:1 9 416:22418:14,1 7 418:1 7 419: 5 briefin g 418:1 2 420:1 1 brief s 417: 9 brin g 415:2 0 brough t 407: 9 burde n419: 1 bus y388: 5 C 364:2 2365:1 4 367: 1 cal l367:7,1 1 387:1 8 calle d370: 5 395:2 0 call s 367:1 2 camer a421:5, 8 ca r 372:20,2 1 373: 3 374:1 0 car e418:2 0 caree r 369:1 6 cas e372: 4 399:1 8 401:1 6 406: 1 409: 6 412: 6 417:16,18,20,2 2 418:5,7,11421:1 5 caseloa d401:15,1 8 case s 417: 3 caugh t 394:1 5 cavitie s 407:11,1 4 certai n368: 6 certainl y400: 4 411:1 4 certificat e368:2 0 Pag e42 2 385:1 9 389:4,1 0 391:1 3 chai n389: 2 chanc e385: 7 396:1 7 change d408: 4 chao s 388: 7 chec k 369: 5 380:1 3 390: 1 circumstanc e 414: 7 Cit y364:1 7 370:1 9 clarificatio n 405:2 2 clarif y412:2 0 claus e407: 8 clea n411: 5 416: 2 clea r 396:1 1 398: 8 406:2411:1 6 clos e382: 3 closel y371: 5 close r 372: 3 CM O 392: 6 395: 6 402: 4 cockpi t 378: 7 Code413:l l com e374: 3 377: 4 393:1 4 394:1 1 401: 8 comfortabl e 387:1 9 comin g 404: 9 comman d378:1 1 389: 2 commente d410: 5 communicatio n 379: 3 communication s 378: 7 389:12,1 3 389:2 1 compan y389:1 2 389:14,17,2 1 390:4, 8 395:1 9 396:2, 7 410: 5 413: 2 competen t

370: 1 Complainan t

365: 2

Nea l R . Gros s & Co. , In c

202-234-443 3366:1 6

Complainant' s 405:1 3 413:18,1 9 413:2 0 Complianc e392:1 6 392:2 2 concep t 416: 2 conclude d403:1 5 conclude s 421:2 0 conclusio n404:1 2 concours e371:2 2 372:1 5 concourse s 370:2 0 condition s 375:1, 4 conduct412:1 6 confuse d414: 2 connecte d389: 9 contac t 378:14,1 8 380: 2381:1 8 contact s 381: 1 390: 8 containe d412:1 1 contaminan t 407:11408: 7 contaminant s 377: 4 406:3,14,1 9 CONTENT S 366: 4 contex t 412: 2 continu e382: 1 contrac t 412:1 4 contrar y385: 9 397:2 2 control s 407:1 2 conversatio n 374:13,1 4 409:1 9 410:14411:7,1 1 412: 2 conversation s 394:1 8 395: 1 coordinat e419:1 9 cop y420:2 2 correc t 393:2 1 394:6,12,1 6 396:14,1 9 397: 2 398:1 2403:2, 3 408:2 1 409:3, 7 411: 2412:3,1 7 414:5,10,15,1 9

correctl y407:1 7 Counse l365: 6 367: 3 368:1, 4 398:1 5 419: 4 coupl e393:1 2 421: 6 cours e369:1 6 cour t 364:1 4 368: 5 371:1 8 373: 8 419:1 5 courtroo m364:1 5 405: 5 415:1 5 421:1 4 Court' s 404: 7 cove r 375:1 6 CP09NM001 0 418: 8 CP09NM001 2 364: 9 Crai n366:1 0 405:12,13,15,2 1 414: 1 Crain's388:1 4 creat e382:2 0 create d382:1 6 383:11,17,1 9 cre w 369: 4 378: 8 407:1 8 crew s 384:1 7 410: 7 411:2 0 CROS S 366: 6 393:9413:2 1 crossin g 403: 9 C-1421: 2 C-1 3 408:9,1 0 413:9,1 0 C-3410:2 1 411: 1 C.F.R413:7,1 1 D D 367: 1 dat e383: 2397:1 7 date d383: 1 397:1 4 397:16,2 0403:1 4 date s 383: 3 418:1 0 da y378:4,1 5 379:14,1 7 380: 9 402:4, 8 407: 3 day s 400:15,1 7 411:1 5 de378: 7 381: 9 dea l407: 4 410:1 5 412:1 1 dealin g 402:2 1 409:11412: 5 Decembe r

364:1 3 decid e421: 6 degree s 406: 8 departin g 416: 2 Departmen t

364: 3 364:2 3 departur e396:1 2 Describ e406: 2 designate d369: 6 des k 394:1 0401:1 7 detail s 393:1 9 411:1 5 determinatio n 385: 8 determin e395: 8 396:1 7 deviat e412:1 8 413: 2 deviatio n378:1 1 381:1 2384: 2 387:18,2 0390:1 8 deviation s 381:9,2 1 383:1 5 391:1 9 392: 7 394:2 0 399:21414:1 3 de-ic e378:1409:1 5 410: 6 de-ice d373:1 4 376:8, 9 387:8,1 2 de-icin g 376:3,2 1 377:2,8,14,15,2 1 378:1 2381: 4 382: 2384:1 6 387:15,2 0391:2 0 409:2 2412: 3 difference s 381:1 5 381:1 6 differen t 376:1 8 381:1,1 3 386:1 7

395: 4 396:2 1 421: 3 differentl y387:1 2 difficult y371:1 9 digita l421: 8 direc t 366: 6 368:1 5 386: 9 391: 3 405:1 9 directio n376:12,1 5 376:16,2 0415:2, 5 415: 9 Directo r 365:1 5 389:2 2 discrepancie s 390:1 2393:1 5 403:8,10,2 2 discus s 404:1 1 discusse d367:1 0 distracte d400:2 1 DM S 364:1 0418: 2 418:5, 8 docke t 364: 8 419:1 8 docket s 420: 6 documen t

382:1 2 383:10,18,1 9 doin g 379: 9 399:1 0 399:21401: 3 403:1 6 414: 9 drivin g 374:1 9 droppin g 372: 5 drov e3 72:1 9 du e398:2 1 399:2 2 407:1 5 408: 6 417: 9 419:5,7, 8 dutie s 369: 2389: 6 D. C 364:2 5 420:2, 2 E E 367:1, 1 370:2 0 371:2 2 372:1 4 eigh t 369:1 9 370:1 6 EI R395:1 4 eithe r 392: 5 420: 4 Elemen t 369:12,2 1 

### I

Pag e42 3 370:5,8,1 4 372:1 0 Emerso n365:1 4 367:5,8,1 2368: 9 368:12,1 6 372:2, 6 372: 8 384:5,11,1 2 386: 2387: 6 393: 6 397:4, 5 398:16,1 8 402:1 0403: 6 404:4,2 2408:1 4 413:15,2 2416: 4 416:17,20,2 1 417: 7 418:9419: 1 419:6,1 2420:9,2 2 421:1 7 employe e385:2 1 ende d421:1 3 Enforcemen t 392:16,2 2 EP I374:2 1 375: 2 EPI s 394:1 5 erro r 397:1 9 ES Q365:3,1 4 estimat e369:1 8 380:1 9 even t 407:1 0 413:1 2 eventuall y401: 8 evidenc e384: 9 413:20416:1 5 Exactl y386:1 6 examinatio n 368:10,1 5 393: 9 398:1 7 402:1 9 405:1 9 413:2 1 examine r 390: 1 examiner s 369: 6 exchang e374:1 2 excus e404:1 0 excuse d404:1 8 416:1 3 Exhibi t 384: 6 exhibit s 366:1 4 420: 5 421: 1 Expres s 417:1 8 exten t 406: 3 ey e406:1 6

Nea lR
. Gros s & Co
.

202-234-443 3 I n cF364:1 5

FA A364: 8 368:1 8 369: 3 385:2 0 392:1 8 412:1 4 FAA-2009-072 1 418: 8 FAA-2009-097 9 364:1 1 fac t 390:1 8 396: 8 399: 2409: 4 411:1 5 fact s 396: 8 fai r 396:1 6 familia r 377: 6 392:1 1 famil y398:2 1 fa r 401:1 9 406:1 4 410:17416: 2 FAR s 390: 5 fashio n412:1 9 favorabl e375: 1 Februar y370:9,1 1 372:1 1 374:2 1 382:20,2 2383:1, 4 383:1 5 384:2 1 387: 9 388:2 1 390:1 3 394:1 1 406: 4 409: 2419: 7 419: 8 Federa l364:1 5 365: 4 413:1 2 417:18418:1 3 FedE x417:2 0 feel370: 1 390:2 2 figure421:1 0 file418:13 filled398: 4 find371:2 2 fine368:1 1 380:1 4 388: 8 419: 2 finish373:6,10,1 1 417:1 2 first 367:1 9 374: 5 379: 7 380:1 2 392: 6 417: 8 418:17,2 2 fit

389: 1 fix409:14 411:2 1 415: 6 fixed410: 3 fixing 409:1 6 410: 4 fiight407:ll flip 382:1 1 fluid377:2, 3 focu s 394:1 4 focuse d400:1 9 fol d420:1 6 follo w 377:2 0 393: 3 395: 7 413: 8 followin g 384:1 7 follow-o n402:1 5 follow-u p 393:1 2 forma l395:1 8 foun d401: 7 fou r 419:2 2421:1 2 fram e406:1 2 free412:1 8 413: 2 fron t 382:1 0 front-lin e379:2 2 ful l367:1 8 402: 4 furthe r 364:1 9 378:1 4 393: 6 398:1 3 405: 1 416:4,1 4 futur e401: 5 G367: l genera l410:1 0 generalitie s 403: 4 generall y392:1 4 gentlema n385:1 2 gentleme n421:1 9 Georg e365:1 8 gettin g 394:1 5 397: 3 417: 5 giv e378:2 2380: 2 417: 7 give n407: 2 glasse s 371:12,1 5 g o 368:8,1 9 371: 8 371:1 7 373: 6 393:1 2395:1 2 418:2 2421:7,1 9

goe s 395:1 8 420: 1 goin g 367: 7 372: 4 374:1 8 386:1 8 391:1 2393:1 9 399:1 7 400:4,2 1 401:1404:7,9,1 0 410:17417: 7 421: 5 gonn a399: 3 GOODWI N 364:2 2367:3,6, 9 367:14,17,2 2 368:3,8,1 1 371: 7 371:11,1 6 372: 2 384: 8 385:11,1 4 385:17,2 0386: 1 386:2 1 387: 5 393: 8 397: 7 398:1 4 402:13,1 6 403:11404:6,1 5 404:1 9 405:4,9,1 5 408:12413:14,1 8 416:6,9,14,1 8 417:1,15,2 0418: 2 418:5,9,2 1 419: 3 419:1 3 420:10,1 6 420:1 9 421:4,1 8 Governmen t 365:1 5 372:19,2 1 373: 3 great415:1 9 gree n371: 6 Gross419:1 6 groun d375: 8 404: 8 407:1 8 gues s 414: 1 420: 1 guidanc e389:1 0 H han d367:1 5 handl e367:1 0 handwritin g 383: 8 happene d382: 7 383: 5 happenin g 394: 2 hea r 378:1 0 hear d404: 7 415:1 8

hearin g 364:6,1 9 404:1 3 421:20,2 1 Hearing s 364:4,2 4 hel d369: 8 hel p 373: 8 helpin g 410: 7 He y394:2 0398: 6 Hol d386:2 1 holiday s 417: 6 Hono r 367: 5 368: 9 384: 5 393: 7 403:1 8 405: 1 416:12,2 2 hope d411:2 1 hopefull y420:1 2

I ic e377: 4 icin g 378: 8 381:1 0 384:1 7 ide a403:2 1 410: 2 identificatio n 384: 9 413:10,1 9 identif y373: 2 indicate s 409:1 2 infor m381:2 0 385: 1 386:1 2 390: 9 391: 5 398: 1 399: 6 informatio n380: 3 381:1 8 388: 3 391:1 5 403:1 5 informe d384:1 5 386:2 0391: 3 392: 2 initiall y379: 7 Inspectio n369:2 1 370:6,9,1 4 372:1 1 Inspection s 369:1 3 inspecto r 384:1 6 384:2 1 385:1 6 389: 4 393:1 1 395: 6 398: 2 405:11,15,2 1 408: 1 inspector s 383:1 4 Pag e42 4 391: 9 392:1 9 inspector' s 382:1 5 instruc t 404:1 0 intensit y408: 3 intention s 390:1 7 interactio n380: 9 380:1 5 interaction s 380:1 2 380:1 7 381: 5 intereste d391: 2 401: 2 Internationa l 371: 4 intimatio n409:2 0 introduc e379: 6 introduce d374: 8 381:1 7 investigatio n 395:21403:1 6 408:2 1 investigativ e396: 2 involve d410: 5 issu e415:1 3 Issue d412:9,1 0 issue s 390: 2391:1 2 399:1 7 409:14,1 7 409:21410:4,8,1 1 411:18412:1, 8 416: 3
Januar y417:4, 9 418:14419: 6 Jaso n366:1 0 388:14405:1 3 Joa n366: 8 367:1 3 367:16,2 0 jo b 369:2,1 1 379:1 1 380: 6 389: 6 Johnsto n384:2 2 385:1 3 386: 6 389: 1 390:7,1 1 392: 1 395: 2399: 2 Johnston' s 386: 3 Judg e364:2 2367: 3 367:6,9,14,17,2 2

Nea lR
. Gros s & Co
.

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.Pag e 42 5

368:3,8,11371: 7 371:11,1 6 372: 2 384: 8 385:11,1 4 385:17,2 0386: 1 386:2 1 387: 5 393: 8 397: 7 398:1 4 402:13,1 6 403:11404:6,1 5 404:1 9 405:4,9,1 5 408:12413:14,1 8 416:6,9,14,1 8 417:1,15,2 0418: 2 418:5,9,21419: 3 419:1 3 420:10,1 6 420:1 9 421:4,1 8 J- o 367:2 0 J-o-h-n-s-t-o- n 386: 5 K kee p 373: 8 kne w 396:2 0414: 8 414:1 2 know371:l l373: 9 373:2 1 374:1, 3 379:1 9 380:2 1 383:1 3 386:2 2 388:10,16,19,2 0 391:14,16,1 7 392:1, 6 398:1 0 399:1 4 400:1 4 401:7,10,1 9 414:17415:1, 6 417: 8 419:2 0

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Nea l R . Gros s & Co .

202-234-443 3 Inc ,388: 4 394:8,1 8

395:11,13,1 7 396:1,11,2 0397: 3 397:13,1 8 398:4, 8 402:1 2404:3,1 4 405:4, 9 406:1 8 407:1 6 408:8,1 7 408:2 0409:1 0 410:2 0412: 1 416:1,18419:1 3 420:1 0 okaye d377:1 9 ol d409:1 6 410: 4 olde r 417: 5 once391:1 5 395:1 1 one' s 421: 4 ope n395:1 4 operation s 376: 3 384:16,2 0385:1 6 412:1 6 opportunit y401:1 4 oppose d409:2 2 410:1 6 Op s 389: 3 398: 1 OpSpe c 413: 5 OpSpec s 377:7,1 1 377:15,2 0381:1 0 390: 5 412:5,6, 8 412:11,14413: 8 orde r 378:1 1 392:11,1 5 393: 3 420:1 2 outline d384:1 8 385:1 0 overal l415:2 2 overse e389: 9 overseein g 390: 1 oversee s 369: 5 o'cloc k 370:1 6 382: 4
P367: 1 packag e406: 9 pag e408:1 5 pain t 375:1 9 paragrap h407: 8 410:2 1

parke d373:1 7 374: 7 par t 389: 7 395:1 7 396: 5 408:2 1 passin g 394:2 0 patter n376:1 3 415:1 0 pattern s 384:1 9 Paul386:ll,1 2 387: 1 395: 2 Paus e372: 1 393: 5 payin g 417: 2 peopl e409:1 4 perfor m369:12,2 1 370:2, 5 Performanc e 369:13,2 1 370:5, 8 370:1 4 372:1 1 performe d369:1 6 372:1 0376: 3 performin g 374:2 0 394:1 5 perio d394: 3 persona l393:2 0 394: 2396:1 3 398:2 1 399:3,2 2 personne l409:2 1 410:1,8,15,1 9 Peterso n366: 8 367:13,16,2 0 368:4,12,1 7 371: 7 372: 9 373: 6 386:2 2393:1 1 398:1 9 400:2 2 404:4,9,1 1 Peterson' s 405: 5 phon e378:2 1 phot o 421: 7 photograp h420:1 4 photo s 421: 6 physicall y374: 9 PI C 377:1 9 picke d407:1 9 pickin g 371:1 9 pilo t 378:1 0 planne d400: 8 pleas e367:11,17,1 9 384:1 3 386: 4 plowe d404: 8 PO I391:7,11,1 4 395:1 3 398: 5 point378:1 9 417: 5 pointe d407: 7 positio n369: 9 position s 388: 8 possibl e393:1 5 395:1 9 possibl y377: 3 poste d420: 6 post-hearin g 418:12,14419: 5 420:1 1 potentia l390:4, 9 396: 3 potentiall y392: 8 practic e377: 7 390: 3 395: 5 premis e407: 4 prepare d397:1 1 409: 5 Presentl y369: 4 prett y394: 5 previousl y405:1 4 406: 6 pre-hearin g 418:1 1 Principa l384:1 5 384:2 0385:1 5 389: 3 398: 1 prio r 396:1 2 403:2 0404:1 2 probabl y371:1 0 401:1 3 418:2 2 proble m398: 6 411: 4 problem s 410: 8 411:1 9 procedura l411:5, 7 414:13,2 1 procedurall y416: 3 procedur e391: 6 396:1410:1 0 procedure s 377: 8 377:2 1 384:1,2,1 7 385:5, 9 386:1 7

387:1 5 390:1 9 391:2 0397:2 2 398: 2408: 6 409:2 2410:12,1 6 412: 3 413: 3 415:1 0 procee d367: 4 proces s 373: 5 395:1 7 396: 3 progra m369:5, 7 program s 412:1 2 properl y415:1 1 protoco l377:1 6 391: 6 protocol s 378:1 2 pulle d374: 5 pursuan t 364:1 9 put408:1 8 421:1 4 P-a-u-1387:1, 3 P-e-t-e-r-s-o- n 367:2 1 qualifie d370: 2 questio n372: 7 373: 7 374:1 6 398:2 0413: 1 question s 393:7,1 2 398:1 5 402:15,1 7 416: 5 quic k 393:1 6 R R365: 3 367: 1 radi o 378: 3 rainin g 375:2 2 Rais e367:1 4 Ramire z386:11,1 2 386:1 5 387:3, 7 388:2,1 1 391: 4 392: 4 395: 2399: 1 400:1 1 rea d384:1 3 410: 3 read s 409:1 3 read y367: 4 reall y380:2 1 410: 2 rea r 407:1 0 Pag e42 6

reaso n371:1 8 396: 5 404:1 6 407: 1 rebutta l404:2 0 405: 3 419: 7 recal l370:1 3 379: 5 380:18,2 1 385: 5 387:10,1 1 388: 6 402: 9 405:1 1 407:1 7 409:8, 9 411:1 6 recalle d366:1 1 381:1 3 386:1 8 387:1 3 407:1 8 REC D 366:1 4 receive d369:2 0 384: 9 391:1 5 393:2 0408:2 0 409:1, 4 413:2 0 Reces s 364:1 9 recogniz e382:1 1 recollectio n407:2 0 411:1 4 recor d421:1 9 RECROS S 366: 6 402:1 9 red371: 5 372:1 3 372:1 3 redac t 420: 7 redirec t 366: 6 398:14,1 7 416: 6 redistribute d 401:1 9 refe r 372: 4 referre d415: 8 reflecte d403:1 4 407:2 1 regardin g 3 84:1 8 410:19416: 1 Regio n365: 5 Regiona l365: 6 regulation s 413: 6 413:1 2 remai n368:1 0 remainin g 376: 9 remembe r

370:2 1 371: 1 372: 9 380: 8

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. Gros s & Co
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202-234-443 3 Inc ,417:1 5

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202-234-443 3 Inc
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i

Nea l R . Gros s & Co .

202-234-443 3 In c43 0 CERTIFICAT E

Thi s i s t o certif ytha t th e foregoing transcrip t

I nth e matte r of : skywes t Airlines , Inc .
Before : U S Dept . o f Transportatio n

Date : 12-02-1 0

Place : Sal t Lak e City , U T

wa s dul yrecorde dandaccuratel ytranscribe dunde r m ydirection ; further , tha t sai dtranscrip t i s a tru e andaccurat e recor do f th e proceedings .

Cour t Reporte r

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

. GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W

. WASHINGTON , D.C

. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.co m