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UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATIOMET OPEHATiOi\lS 

In the Matter of: '}~ ''t 

r.u .l 21 2: 13 

COASTAL AIR 

TRANSPORTATION, INC. 

FDMS No. FAA-2011-1005 

11:05 a.m. 

Suite 600, Conference Room 

Heritage Reporting Corporation 

1220 L Street, N.W. 

Washington, D.C. 

Monday, 

June 11, 2012 

The parties met, pursuant to the notice, at 

BEFORE: HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN 

Administrative Law Judge 

APPEARANCES: (Via Telephone) 

On Behalf of Respondent: 

MICHAEL FOSTER, President 

Coastal Air Transport, Inc. 

P.O. Box 3985 

Christiansted, St. Croix, Virgin Islands 00822 

(340)773-6862 

On Behalf of Agency: 

RASHAWN RICH 'GEORGE, Esquire 

Office of the Regional Counsel, 

Southern Region 

Federal Aviation Administration 

P.O. Box 20636 

Atlanta, Georgia 30320 

(404) 305-5200 

AS0-7 

Rc IV ED 

JUN 2 0 2012 

\-\EAR\NG DOCKET 

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2 (11:05 a.m.) 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the record in the 

4 matter of Coastal Transport, Inc. This is Docket No. 

5 FAA-2011-1005. Today is Monday, June 11, 2012, and 

6 the parties have convened for a second Civil Rule 16 

7 litigation scheduling conference. 

8 The Federal Aviation Administration, which 

9 I'll hereinafter abbreviate as the "FAA" is 

10 represented by its attorney-of-record, Ms. Rashawn 

11 Rich George. Also present in her office sitting as an 

12 observer today is Andrew Serota, a law student intern 

13 with the FAA. 

14 Appearing on behalf of Coastal Air 

15 Transport, Inc. is its president, Michael Foster. 

16 And, Mr. Foster, remind me again, are you a layperson 

17 or an attorney who serves as the president? 

18 MR. FOSTER: I'm a layperson. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you very much. 

20 I'll note that prior to convening today, this Court 

21 issued an order on May 23, 2012 which granted the 

22 Respondent's motion for a continuance of the second CR 

23 16 conference. I'll also note that prior to issuing 

24 that order on May 22, 2012, the parties submitted a 

25 joint Rule 26-F report. Thank you all . 

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1 What I need to do is talk a little bit about 

2 some housekeeping matters if I may. And I'm going to 

3 start with you, Mr. Foster. We apparently don't have 

4 a good telephone number of record for you since we 

5 tried the number of record that you had given us for 

6 today's conference and it didn't work. 

7 And as a result, Ms. George stepped in and 

8 was able to give us an alternate number. Can you tell 

9 us for our records, what phone number we should have 

10 for you in order to reach you for these kinds of 

11 conferences? 

12 

13 

MR. FOSTER: Okay. It's (340)773-6862. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And is that the 

14 number that my secretary called you to reach you at 

15 today? 

16 MR. FOSTER: Yes. Oh, I don't know, but 

17 that's the only number we have. We only have one 

18 number. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Is there another 

20 number that you have utilized in the past because 

21 that's the number that she tried to reach you at 

22 originally, and Ms. George ended up giving us a 

23 different number for today's conference? 

24 

25 now . 

MR. FOSTER: This is my cell phone I'm on 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. All right. Thank 

2 you. We'll continue to use it as the phone number of 

3 record. 

4 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's talk a little bit 

6 about the CR-26-F report, and let's start with a 

7 couple different things. There is, within this 

8 CR-26-F report, what appears to be a dispute about 

9 venue with the FAA suggesting San Juan, Puerto Rico 

10 and the Respondent suggesting Saint Croix, Virgin 

11 Islands. 

12 Starting with you, Ms. George, have you 

13 reached any kind of agreement about the venue? 

14 MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, I indicated to Mr. 

15 Foster at the time we had our discussion that it was 

16 preferable for the Agency for San Juan. Our witnesses 

17 would be coming out of the San Juan area, and for 

18 travel purposes we --

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I'm going to 

20 interrupt you. It sounds to me like you haven't 

21 reached an agreement on venue since you filed this 

22 report. Would that be a fair statement? I'm hearing 

23 no response. That was addressed to you, Ms. George. 

24 MS. GEORGE: Yes, I'm sorry. There was a 

25 siren that we heard on our end. You might not have 

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1 heard me over that. I indicated that we have not 

2 discussed it since the date that we originally 

3 discussed the issues that we have on May 17. So we 

4 have not come to an agreement. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And as I understand 

6 it from your original notice of complaint, you have a 

7 total of 16 alleged safety violations? 

8 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And I wasn't able to 

10 quite figure out from your notice of complaint or the 

11 other materials, how you reached the $59,600 amount 

12 for the proposed civil penalty. Have you been able to 

13 exchange that specific information with Mr. Foster 

14 yet? 

15 MS. GEORGE: On May 17 during our 

16 conference, I indicated to him how we reached the 

17 $59,000. We had previously provided to him a copy of 

18 our sanction, got it matrixed with our motion for 

19 judgment on the pleadings. 

20 And in that document, we explained how the 

21 air carrier violations were comprised based upon the 

22 FAA has its materials matrixed. Under our penalty 

23 guidelines, Mr. Foster is being charged with 

24 violations of regulations for improper acceptance of 

25 hazardous materials. There's in fact --

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm going to stop you. The 

2 question before you was: Have you provided a specific 

3 statement to Mr. Foster about you reached that amount? 

4 And it sounds like the answer is yes. 

5 MS. GEORGE: Yes, ma'am. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Foster, let me 

7 turn to you. There was previously a motion filed by 

8 the FAA on February 23, 2012 which was a motion for 

9 hearing on sanction only. And as you may recall, I 

10 subsequently took a look at that motion as well as 

11 your motion to dismiss and some other matters, and I 

12 reserved that particular motion for discussion for 

13 today. Did you and Ms. George talk about that at all 

14 during your CR-26-F conference that you convened and 

15 held on May 17, 2012? 

16 MR. FOSTER: No, we did not. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have any 

18 particular position on that motion that you would like 

19 to talk about today? 

20 MR. FOSTER: Well, as I pointed out in the 

21 motion to dismiss, there were numerous contradictions 

22 in Ms. George's charges. She actually contradicts her 

23 own charges in the filings that she's made. And that 

24 was the objection I had. And also, we really didn't 

25 talk that much about the matrix and how it affected 

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1 us. 

2 I had considered this, of course, it's my 

3 first offense, and it's a very minor offense. And I 

4 questioned why we were at the top of the matrix for a 

5 minor first offense, and she really didn't explain it 

6 to me. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So it sounds to me 

8 like you are objecting then to the motion for hearing 

9 on sanction only. Would that be a fair statement? 

10 MR. FOSTER: That's correct. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

12 MR. FOSTER: The sanction was from the date 

13 of the original conference? 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: There is a sanction in the 

15 amount of $59, 600 proposed as a total sanction for an 

16 alleged 16 safety violations. 

17 MR. FOSTER: Okay. No, I am objecting to 

18 that. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I'm sorry, sir. I'm 

20 going to continue. When you want to object to 

21 something like that and you don't reach an agreement 

22 about it prior to today's date, then essentially you 

23 have to file a written response and explain what your 

24 objections are in writing. And I'll set a deadline 

25 for you to do that before we conclude today. 

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1 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me ask you this, Mr. 

3 Foster, is it your intent to continue representing 

4 your company on your own? 

5 MR. FOSTER: That's correct, Your Honor. 

6 We're a very small company with limited finances right 

7 now. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Just so that I have 

9 a sense of what your level of expertise is in 

10 appearing as a representative, I'm going to ask you a 

11 couple of questions about your background. Do you 

12 have any experience serving as a legal representative 

13 on behalf of your company before this office on other 

14 matters? 

15 MR. FOSTER: We're violation-free, Your 

16 Honor. We haven't had any -- I've been in business 35 

17 years, and we haven't had anything like this happen. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So I would assume 

19 from that response the answer is no. You have no 

20 experience appearing as a legal representative before 

21 this forum. 

22 

23 

24 

25 

MR. FOSTER: That's correct. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have any 

experience appearing as a legal representative for 

your company in an Article 3 court like in a state 

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1 court or a federal district court for example? 

2 MR. FOSTER: No, we do not. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. How familiar are 

4 you, if at all, with the Code of Federal Regulations, 

5 the Rules of Civil Procedure or the Rules of Evidence? 

6 And if you're not familiar, just say so. 

7 MR. FOSTER: No, I have no background in 

8 that. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That helps me quite 

10 a bit. In essence, Mr. Foster, when you appear before 

11 me in this particular forum, you are required 

12 essentially to play by the rules, and there are lots 

13 of different rules that govern the way we do things in 

14 this litigation forum. 

15 And I can provide you with information about 

16 how to do certain things, but then you also have to 

17 spend some time reading the rules and becoming 

18 familiar with them so that you can utilize them to 

19 your own benefit because I cannot give you advice nor 

20 can I advocate for your company. Does that make sense 

21 so far? 

22 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You are always 

24 welcome to consult privately with an attorney without 

25 hiring an attorney to represent you. And some people 

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1 do that. Usually companies like yours have someone 

2 that they utilize on occasion for business purposes. 

3 You may find that it's very helpful to talk 

4 to an attorney on occasion about how to navigate 

5 through the dispute resolution process. There are 

6 people who also utilize -- they see experts who may or 

7 may not be as helpful as an attorney, but it's up to 

8 you to decide. 

9 In.essence, what you're doing right now is 

10 that you're appearing for the purpose of setting the 

11 litigation schedule on my calendar and setting up a 

12 calendar time line for you and the other side to work 

13 comfortably towards either trial or resolution. 

14 And we call the trials "hearings" because 

15 this is an adjudicative function under the executive 

16 branch, but we are required to provide you with the 

17 same type of process that you would see in a trial 

18 that you would see on television. 

19 And I say that with some caution because 

20 television trials are often quite dramatic and don't 

21 really give you the sense of all the hard work that 

22 people have to do to get there. 

23 

24 

25 

MR. FOSTER: I see. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Having said that, one of 

the first things that would be very helpful to know is 

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1 how much information you and Ms. George need to 

2 exchange and talk about in preparation for the trial. 

3 And the amount of information that would 

4 need to be exchanged would be very different if the 

5 motion for hearing on sanction only was granted versus 

6 if it were denied because what that motion does is ask 

7 this Court to substantially narrow the issue that 

8 would be in litigation before me. 

9 In essence, this motion is asking me to find 

10 that all the violations occurred and that the only 

11 thing that is in controversy is the amount of money 

12 that should be paid as a penalty. So it seems to me 

13 

14 

15 

that the very first thing that needs to be done is to 

decide what the scope of the dispute is. 

And before I go on, I just want to check in 

16 with you, Mr. Foster, and see if you understand what 

17 I'm talking about so far. 

18 MR. FOSTER: I believe so. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have in front 

20 of you a copy of that motion that was filed on 

21 February 23, 2012 by Ms. George? 

22 

23 

24 

25 

MR. FOSTER: No, I do not. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have a file 

that you have in your office somewhere that's perhaps 

not at your fingertips right now in which you would 

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1 have placed your copy of that document? 

2 MR. FOSTER: Sure. I do have a file. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Is it close at hand? 

4 Could you get up from the phone and go get it and come 

5 back? 

6 MR. FOSTER: I'm in my car right now. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You're in your car. 

8 That's not good. Are you talking while you're 

9 driving? 

10 MR. FOSTER: No, I'm parked at the Home 

11 Depot. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In the future, when 

13 you appear for these kinds of conferences, you should 

14 be prepared to answer any question the Court has of 

15 you about any of the documentation that the Court has 

16 before it. 

17 So I particularly have no preference as to 

18 where you sit when you're talking on the phone with 

19 me, but I do have a preference and a requirement that 

20 you have all the documentation with you. So for 

21 future conferences, you might want to start carrying 

22 around your file. Does that make sense? 

23 

24 

25 

MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What I'm inclined to 

do is this: It seems to me that before we set up all 

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1 the litigation in this case/ we set up a time frame 

2 for you 1 Mr. Foster/ to file a formal response to the 

3 motion for hearing on sanction only. 

4 And then I will give Ms. George an 

5 opportunity to file a reply to your response. She 

6 doesn 1 t have to file a replyr but I always like to 

7 give the moving party an opportunity to do that. 

8 And then I can set up a second telephone 

9 conference/ not only to talk to you all about the 

10 motion if I need to 1 but also to set up the second 

11 conference so that we can reach some of these other 

12 issues which is the discovery issues/ the dispositive 

13 motion/ and those kinds of things. 

14 The other way to go about it is to set up a 

15 whole bunch of different dates and times with you 

16 folks not knowing today about what the scope of the 

17 litigation is. 

18 And given the factr Mr. Foster 1 that you are 

19 the lay representative/ I think it 1 s better to take 

20 the whole litigation process one step at a time so 

21 that you don 1 t get too confused because it 1 s easy to 

22 be confused. 

23 

24 

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Ms. George 1 let me check-in with you. Do 

you have any objection to doing this on a step-by-step 

basis? 

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1 MS. GEORGE: No, Your Honor. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Foster, turning 

3 back to you. How soon or how much time do you think 

4 you would need to read that motion for hearing on 

5 sanction only? Maybe chat with someone privately 

6 about it and then write a formal response and have it 

7 served, not only served to me, but to Ms. George, to 

8 the hearing docket clerk, and so forth. What's your 

9 time frame for something like that? 

10 MR. FOSTER: Oh, I guess two weeks would be 

11 enough time. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have access, 

13 sir, to your calendar while you're sitting in your 

14 car? 

15 MR. FOSTER: I don't, no. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have a sense 

17 of what your calendar is like in your head? Many 

18 people have that ability. 

19 MR. FOSTER: I do. I'm generally, like I 

20 say, available Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I'm thinking 

22 in terms of how much time you're going to take to read 

23 the case law that's cited here and the rules and 

24 figure out what you want to say in response. Have you 

25 had a chance to read this material in depth prior to 

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1 today? 

2 MR. FOSTER: Yes, I have. I didn 1 t quite 

3 understand what the sanction only was. And, of 

4 course, we object to that now that we know because 

5 we,re objecting to the charges as a whole, not just 

6 the sanctions. We also are objecting to the 

7 sanctions. So that would be my response in that 

8 respect. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You have basically 

10 filed a motion to dismiss, and that was filed in this 

11 office on March 23, 2012. And I took that motion to 

12 dismiss, and I converted it into what I thought it 

13 really was which was an answer, and I accepted the 

14 motion to dismiss on its face. 

15 But I also found that this was, in large 

16 part, an answer to the motion for sanction. So what 

17 would be helpful, and I,m not quite sure that you know 

18 how to do this, is if you can look at that motion for 

19 hearing on sanction only and take a look at what,s 

20 actually in dispute. 

21 There may be some things that the two of 

22 you, that being you and Ms. George can actually agree 

23 to are undisputed. So, for example, this motion for 

24 

25 

hearing on sanction only talks about the fact that 

there,s an allegation that you sent something by 

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1 shipment on a day and at a place and at a time. 

2 I think it was October 21, 2009. There's an 

3 allegation that your company accepted a shipment of 

4 gas, oil, Class 3 flammable liquid for air 

5 transportation onboard a passenger aircraft. And then 

6 it goes on to talk about some other things leading to 

7 the safety violation. 

8 It's really helpful if you can decide what's 

9 actually in dispute so that when you answer this 

10 motion for hearing on sanction only, you can state 

11 something to the effect of, and I'm going to just make 

12 this up, Coastal Air Transport, Inc. did not engage in 

13 business on October 21, 2009 because I gave everybody 

14 the day off. 

15 As a result, this factual allegation is 

16 untrue on its face across the board. Or you could say 

17 something like Coastal Air Transportation, Inc. was 

18 doing business on October 21, 2009 and accepted a 

19 shipment of gas, oil, Class 3 flammable liquid for air 

20 transportation, but we did not do A, B, and C. 

21 That kind of thing so that you hone in on what the 

22 actual issues in dispute are. Does that make sense so 

23 far? 

24 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does, and I think we've 

25 pretty much done that in the motion to dismiss that we 

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1 had sent you. We took it item by item and objected, I 

2 believe, to each individual item. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I have the motion to 

4 dismiss in front of me, and I see what you've done a 

5 little bit here. But it would be helpful if you could 

6 state in writing what your position is on the motion 

7 for hearing on sanction only. You do have to respond 

8 to that. 

9 So it may be that you can utilize your 

10 motion to dismiss in a way that helps you answer the 

11 motion for hearing on sanction only or it may be that 

12 you'll need to add some information. 

13 It sounds to me when I read this motion to 

14 dismiss that there are a lot of things that you don't 

15 disagree with, but maybe I'm misreading this. It 

16 sounds to me in reading your motion to dismiss that 

17 you agree that you were in business on October 21, 

18 2009. 

19 That you were engaged in accepting shipments 

20 of certain types for air transportation onboard a 

21 passenger aircraft, that you do have some matters that 

22 you might ship that could be potentially labeled as 

23 hazardous material, maybe not. I don't know. 

24 

25 

But you want to, in looking at this motion 

for hearing on sanction only, see if there are places 

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1 in this litigation where you can come to an agreement 

2 without giving up what you think is what's in dispute 

3 because the more narrow you can get, the more narrowly 

4 you can frame your issues, the better off you are. 

5 MR. FOSTER: I understand and I do agree 

6 with you on that. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So what I'd like to 

8 have you do is take a look at the motion for hearing 

9 on sanction only and one of the ways that you can do 

10 this is to do draw a line down the vertical -- the 

11 middle of the page. 

12 And you start taking the notice of complaint 

13 and all of the different information that is 

14 identified in the notice of complaint and then you 

15 compare it to what you agree to or don't agree to. 

16 And then you can kind of come up with your response, 

17 which is, yes, we agree to the hearing on sanction 

18 only. 

19 Or, no, we don't agree to the hearing on 

20 sanction only because of A, B, and C. But everything 

21 else, we think is fine. You now? That kind of thing 

22 

23 

24 

25 

so that you give both myself and Ms. George an idea of 

where you really want this litigation to go. 

And at that point, then I can say to you 

folks, okay, since you have, let's say, you have the 

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1 hazardous material issue in dispute, but there is no 

2 dispute about the company being in business or the 

3 date that this occurred et cetera, et cetera. 

4 This is how much time I'm going to give you 

5 to exchange documentation on the rest of the case. 

6 This is how much time I'm going to give you to 

7 propound interrogatories to each other. 

8 This is how much time I'm going to give you 

9 to put a motion together for motion on dispositive 

10 issues such as a summary judgment motion or a motion 

11 to have a decision on written material or that kind of 

12 thing. 

13 In the meantime then, you and Ms. George 

14 should also be talking about how much time you want to 

15 reserve for trial and how many people you think you 

16 want to call for each side of the case. And I didn't 

17 see any of that in your CR-26-F conference material. 

18 And I suspect that you haven't gotten down 

19 to those nitty-gritty issues yet. You should be 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

talking to each other about how much time you think 

this trial is going to take, who you think might be 

called, how much time it will take to elicit these 

witness's testimony, which would then inform me as to 

how much time to reserve for trial for you all. 

In addition, I would really like you all to 

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1 talk about the venue a little bit more. You can avoid 

2 some work for yourselves, and I address this to both 

3 of you, if you talk substantially about who you're 

4 going to call, where they're located, and why a 

5 certain place is better than another place. 

6 So I have to travel to you. When I say, "to 

7 you," I'm talking about to both of you no matter who 

8 you call. So really, I'm happy to travel to either 

9 Puerto Rico or to the Virgin -- Saint Croix. Am I 

10 mispronouncing that? Is it Saint Croix? 

11 MR. FOSTER: Saint Croix, Your Honor. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Saint Croix. Thank you. 

13 Happy to travel to either place. It would be helpful 

14 if the two of you talk a little bit more substantially 

15 about the merits of one place over the other. 

16 So, Mr. Foster, do you have access to a law 

17 library by any chance? 

18 MR. FOSTER: I do, Your Honor. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Hopefully, there's a 

20 law library up there as well, is there by any chance? 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

MR. FOSTER: In Saint Croix? Yes, there is. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Wonderful. What I'd like 

you to do is go to the law library with the February 

23, 2012 motion by the FAA for hearing on sanction 

only, and I want you to have the law librarian help 

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2 particular motion, specifically on page 3, which 

3 references under Paragraph 6 of the Code of Federal 

4 Regulations that talks about the civil penalty. 

5 In addition, there are various numbers of 

6 citations both to case law and other materials in this 

7 particular document that you may find to be of 

8 interest to you because of how the material is cited 

9 and what support it's giving for this kind of 

10 complaint. 

11 There are lots of different things that this 

12 Court has to take into account for looking at a civil 

• 13 penalty assessment. But before I go to the civil 

14 penalty assessment, I have to decide whether a 

15 violation actually occurred, and in order to do that, 

16 I look at the federal regulations. 

17 In the notice of complaint that was issued 

18 long before February 23, 2012, there are specific 

19 citations in that notice of complaint which you've 

20 denied, talking about the transportation of hazardous 

21 material, the type of plane that the allege hazardous 

22 material was transported on, and so forth. 

23 You really should read all of those 

24 citations to see whether or not you actually have 

25 ground to deny it. Information is power essentially, 

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1 and when you make a general denial like you have so 

2 far, I'm concerned, given your lay status, that you 

3 may not have read the material that you need to read 

4 in order to reach those perceptions. 

5 That's not to say that you're not correct. 

6 You may be very well correct, but typically some of 

7 this material could just as easily be admitted without 

8 interfering with your defense against the civil 

9 penalty. 

10 So I want to give you a chance to do that, 

11 and then file a written response. And I'm going to 

12 err on the side of caution just in case, and I'm going 

13 to set a time for you to file a written response on 

14 the motion for hearing on sanction only to July 9. 

15 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then are you aware of 

17 the service requirements that we have in this office 

18 where you have to file a notice or certificate of 

19 service of who you file it with? 

20 MR. FOSTER: Well, that's the individuals 

21 that have to be mailed copies? 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. Yes, you'll see 

23 on the May 23, 2012 order that I sent to you and Ms. 

24 George and several other people that page 2 of that 

25 order is called a service list. And you'll see that I 

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1 sent a copy to the Federal Aviation Administration/ to 

2 the hearing docket clerk. 

3 I sent a copy to you. I sent a copy to Ms. 

4 George. I sent a copy to George Loganr your companyrs 

5 agent for service/ and then I also kept a copy in my 

6 file. And you could replicate that service list just 

7 the way it is and use it. 

8 So whenever you send me anything/ you have 

9 to send the same material to everybody else that I 1 ve 

10 just mentioned. And you should also attach to that 

11 material that you sendr the service list showing that 

12 everybody has been notified. 

13 And part of the reason is so that there is a 

14 record for everyone to show that everybody had notice 1 

15 and part of the reason is that that way you have 

16 complied with the rules which essentially require you 

17 to do that. 

18 If you donrt have a copy of the May 23 1 2012 

19 order that I issued1 any order that I 1 Ve issued in 

20 this case will have the service list attached. So you 

21 can use it. And Ms. George also has attached service 

22 lists to any of the material that she 1 s sent as well. 

23 So yourll see that theyrre pretty much the same. 

24 So July 9 1 2012 for the Respondent 1 S answer 

25 to the motion for hearing on sanction only. And 1 Ms . 

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1 George, can you respond to that, if you so choose, by 

2 July 20? 

3 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then, folks, what 

5 I'm going to do is I'm going to set this up for 

6 another litigation scheduling conference. Ms. George, 

7 I'm going to start with you. Do you have time 

8 available on either July 30 or July 31? 

9 MS. GEORGE: I'm available both days, Your 

10 Honor. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Foster, you had 

12 indicated that Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays are 

13 best for you. Is either July 30 or July 31 good for 

14 you? 

15 MR. FOSTER: Yeah. Monday, Tuesday or 

16 Thursday, Your Honor. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Oh, okay. Well, July 30 is 

18 a Monday. July 31 is a Tuesday. 

19 MR. FOSTER: I'm available for both of 

20 those. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't we try to 

22 do this on Monday, July 30 at 11:00 eastern time. 

23 Okay? 

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MS. GEORGE: Okay. 

MS. GEORGE: Okay. 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm going to ask you 

2 both to talk one more time. I'd like to have you talk 

3 again about venue. I'd like to have you talk about, 

4 assuming that all matters are going to go to trial, 

5 how much tim~ each side thinks it's going to take, how 

6 many witnesses each side would take. 

7 And then let's assume that the trial does 

8 not encompass everything. Let's say it only 

9 encompasses part of the violations alleged and all of 

10 the sanctions just as a hypothetical, then you also 

11 want to talk about how that might reduce the time that 

12 you think the trial would take and/or reduce the 

13 number of witnesses it would take. 

14 And then if there are other things that you 

15 want to talk about privately, that's fine. You're 

16 free to do that at anytime. But I will look forward, 

17 I'm not going to set any other litigation matters 

18 today. You're welcome to continue to exchange initial 

19 discovery requests. Mr. Foster, are you aware of what 

20 that means when I say "initial discovery"? 

21 MR. FOSTER: Yes, I am, Your Honor.JUDGE 

22 SULLIVAN: Okay. You're also welcome at this point, 

23 since this is really the first litigation scheduling 

24 conference, to start exchanging general discovery 

25 according to your original plan. And general 

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1 discovery would include, but is not limited to, 

2 notices of deposition, propounding interrogatories, 

3 request for production of documents, the request for 

4 disclosure of expert witnesses. Any and all of those 

5 kinds of things. 

6 If there are objections, there should be 

7 objections noted to me. Well, noted to me only after 

8 an objection has been filed to the other side and a 

9 CR-37 discussion has not resolved the matter I should 

10 say. 

11 But hopefully, the discovery exchange will 

12 go smoothly in between now and July 30, 2012. We'll 

13 have some additional time after that to do discovery 

14 so it's not as though Your Honor has a tight deadline 

15 for that. 

16 What really what I think is critical is for 

17 you, Mr. Foster, to review the Code of Federal 

18 Regulations specifically about the regulations that 

19 your company is accused of violating so that you can 

20 kind of see what exactly you want to fight on and what 

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you don't need to fight on because you want to 

conserve your energy for those things that are really 

in dispute. 

In addition, it's very important for the two 

of you to talk again before July 30, 2012 to discuss 

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1 more fully the issue of venue, and to also talk about 

2 how much time this trial is going to take first if no 

3 issues are resolved and the whole matter goes to 

4 trial, and second, if, in fact, you can narrow the 

5 issues and create a more finely honed dispute about 

6 what's in controversy. 

7 Mr. Foster, starting with you, is there 

8 anything that I need to address then at this point for 

9 your company or are you pretty clear about what you 

10 need to do between now and July 30? 

11 MR. FOSTER: No, I think I'm pretty clear, 

12 Your Honor. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Ms. George, anything 

14 I need to address for your client before we conclude 

15 today? 

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MS. GEORGE: No, Your Honor. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What I'm going to do 

is I'm going to send out an order, basically codifying 

the due dates that I've given to you orally today. 

When we reconvene on July 30, 2012, we will pick up 

where we left off and continue with litigation 

scheduling. 

If I have material before me as of July 20, 

2012 that gives me enough information where I can 

issue an order immediately on that motion, I'll do it. 

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1 If I have some questions, I'll reserve the motion 

2 until the top of the hour on July 30, 2012 just to ask 

3 those questions before I make a ruling. Ideally, I'll 

4 have a ruling out to you before July 30, 2012. 

5 With that, it appears our business today is 

6 complete. Thank you all very much for your presence. 

7 I'm going to wish you a good day, and we can go off 

8 the record. 

9 (Whereupon, at 11:46 a.m., the telephone 

10 conference in the above-entitled matter was 

11 concluded.) 

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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 

DOCKET NO.: FAll- 2..0!1- /OOS 

CASE TITLE: Coasfa.t A/r Transpovt-; /TIC/ • 

HEARING DATE: (pjJijJZ.. 

LOCATION: IZZO L ~f Nk./1 /A)ASHJtJCiTDN, DC 2..0005 

SU!TG (.{)00 

HIZC CO!VFe.f2CJVUE. 120011 

I hereby certify that the proceedings and 

evidence are contained fully and accurately on the 

tapes and notes reported by me at the hearing in the 

21 

above case before t/on. J.£. Su/1/Va.n; ALJ J l\.CS. 'wCt~i\+ of. 

)ro.qs, p::,r~-h' 0'\ 

Date; (p j 1 Z/ J 2. 

Official Reporter 

Heritage Reporting Corporation Suite 600 

1220 L Street, N.W. 

Washington, D.C. 20005-4018 

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