202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 1

 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY 

 + + + + + 

 PUBLIC MEETING ON THE 

 TEST PROCEDURE FOR TELEVISION SETS 

 + + + + 

 THURSDAY 

 APRIL 4, 2013 

 + + + + + 

 The public meeting convened in 

Room 8E-089, U.S. Department of Energy, 1000 

Independence Avenue, S.W., Washington, D.C., 

at 9:00 a.m., Doug Brookman, Moderator, 

presiding. 

PRESENT 

DOUG BROOKMAN, Public Solutions, Inc., 

 Moderator 

ASHLEY ARMSTRONG, Department of Energy 

BILL BELT, Consumer Electronics Association 

LOUIS-BENOIT DESROCHES, Lawrence Berkeley 

 National Laboratory 

JEREMY DOMMU, Department of Energy 

JON FAIRHURST, Sharp 

KURT KLINKE, Navigant Consulting 

BIJIT KUNDU, Energy Solutions 

MICHAEL McMANUS, Fuse 

KEVIN MORRISSEY, Navigant Consulting 

FRANCINE PINTO, Department of Energy 

VERENA RADULOVIC, EPA 

GREGORY ROSENQUIST, Lawrence Berkeley 

 National Laboratory 

ANTHONY ROTOLO, Navigant Consulting 

BILL SCHINDLER, Panasonic 

CHARLIE STEPHENS, NEEA 

JARID STRIKE, UL LLC 

CHRISTOPHER WOLD, CLASP 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 2

PRESENT VIA WEBINAR 

RANDY BANTON, Corporate R&D 

THOMAS BOLIOLI, Terra Novum 

RICHARD FASSLER, Power Integrations 

ANTHONY FRYER, Appliance Standards Awareness 

 Project 

JEFF HOWELL, Toshiba 

DAVID MACIEL, Sony Electronics 

JIM MORGAN, Sony Electronics 

V. SMART, C&R 

MATTHEW SWINK, Department of Justice 

EDSON TAKEI, Best Buy 

ALLEN TSAO, Navigant 

LINDA WILSON, NYS OAG 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 3

 TABLE OF CONTENTS 

 Page 

Welcome, Introductions and 

Opening Statements 

 Doug Brookman and Jeremy Dommu.... 4 

Rulemaking History & Timeline 

 Jeremy Dommu..................... 12 

Summary of SNOPR 

 Jeremy Dommu..................... 16 

On-Mode Test with Automatic 

Brightness Control Enabled 

 Anthony Rotolo................... 19 

Illuminance Values 

 Anthony Rotolo................... 61 

Definitions 

 Anthony Rotolo................... 87 

Test Conditions 

 Kurt Klinke...................... 141 

Accuracy of Equipment 

 Kurt Klinke...................... 171 

Standby-Active, High and 

Standby-Active Low Mode 

 Kurt Klinke...................... 175 

Energy Efficiency Metrics and Ratings 

 Louis-Benoit Desroches........... 204 

Next Steps and Closing Remarks 

 Jeremy Dommu..................... 236 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 4

1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 (9:01 a.m.) 

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, please take 

4 yours seats. We are going to get going here. 

5 Good morning everyone and welcome. 

6 This is the U.S. Department of Energy's 

7 supplemental notice of proposed rulemaking 

8 public meeting on the test procedure for 

9 television sets. Today is April 4, 2013 here 

10 in Washington, D.C. at the Forrestal Building. 

11 My name is Doug Brookman from 

12 Public Solutions in Baltimore. I'm glad you 

13 are here this morning. We are going to start 

14 off this morning with welcoming remarks from 

15 Jeremy Dommu. 

16 MR. DOMMU: Hello, everyone. Good 

17 morning. I am Jeremy Dommu. I am the project 

18 manager overseeing DOE's rulemaking activities 

19 to establish a test procedure for television 

20 sets. As Doug mentioned, today's meeting is 

21 the meeting for the supplemental notice of 

22 proposed rulemaking. So I welcome everyone's 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 5

1 continued involvement in DOE's activities. 

2 As many of you know, I have been 

3 fortunate enough to meet many of you over the 

4 past year since I took over the rulemaking 

5 activities from my former colleague, Victor 

6 Petrolati. If anyone is interested, I 

7 actually did reach out to Vic and said hey we 

8 are having this public meeting. Why don't you 

9 come as a citizen? He said, unfortunately I 

10 am doing a little spring skiing up in New 

11 England. 

12 MR. BROOKMAN: That is very 

13 unfortunate. 

14 MR. DOMMU: So he is clearly doing 

15 well in retirement. So I look forward to the 

16 conversation today, getting feedback from 

17 interested parties both those in person and 

18 via the webinar. And I think we could go 

19 ahead and begin. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Great. So let's 

21 start with introductions. That is what we 

22 typically do. And I will start to my 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 6

1 immediate left and you can get used to turning 

2 these microphones on and off. Please say your 

3 name and organizational affiliation. 

4 MR. WOLD: This is Christopher 

5 Wold from the Collaborative Labeling and 

6 Appliance Standards Program. 

7 MR. SCHINDLER: This is Bill 

8 Schindler with Panasonic. 

9 MR. FAIRHURST: This is Jon 

10 Fairhurst from Sharp Labs of America. I am 

11 also involved in chairing some related groups 

12 in CEA and IEC. 

13 MR. KUNDU: This is Bijit Kundu 

14 from Energy Solutions on behalf of the 

15 California Investor-Owned Utilities. 

16 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens 

17 from the Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. 

18 MS. PINTO: Francine Pinto from 

19 the General Counsel's Office of DOE. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Ashley, do you want 

21 to introduce yourself? 

22 MS. ARMSTRONG: Ashley Armstrong, 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 7

1 DOE. 

2 MR. DESROCHES: Louis Desroches, 

3 Lawrence Berkeley Lab. 

4 MR. KLINKE: Kurt Klinke, Navigant 

5 Consulting. 

6 MR. ROTOLO: Anthony Rotolo, 

7 Navigant Consulting. 

8 MR. ROSENQUIST: Greg Rosenquist, 

9 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. 

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Please introduce 

11 yourself. 

12 MR. STRIKE: Jarid Strike, UL. 

13 MR. MORRISSEY: Kevin Morrissey, 

14 Navigant Consulting. 

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks to 

16 all of you for being here so we can get an 

17 early start on the day. All of you received a 

18 packet of information as you checked in this 

19 morning, an agenda, a PowerPoint slide packet 

20 and the Federal Register notice. 

21 I will do a very brief agenda 

22 review here. Immediately following this 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 8

1 agenda review, there is an opportunity for 

2 anybody who wishes to do so to make an opening 

3 statement, brief summary remarks about issues 

4 that matter to you that you might wish to 

5 emphasize here at the outset. 

6 Following that, a rulemaking 

7 history and timeline overview. And then 

8 immediately following on the following subject 

9 matter, summary of the SNOPR, on-mode test and 

10 automatic brightness control enabled. We will 

11 take a break mid-morning, around about 11:00 

12 or so. 

13 Following the mid-morning break, 

14 illuminance values, then definitions. We will 

15 take lunch right about 12:30 or so today. 

16 And then following lunch or 

17 whenever we get there, test conditions. And 

18 then accuracy of equipment and then finally -- 

19 oh, not finally -- standby-active mode, high 

20 and standby-active low mode. 

21 And the agenda that I have -- here 

22 we go. And then following, if we get to a 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 9

1 mid-afternoon break around about 3:00 or so, 

2 then following the mid-afternoon break, energy 

3 efficiency metrics and ratings, and then 

4 finally next steps and closing remarks 

5 whenever we get there, 3:45 or so. And yet 

6 another opportunity for anybody that wants to 

7 to make a concluding statement, concluding 

8 remarks, to make sure your issues are covered 

9 today sufficiently. 

10 So that is the plan. Okay? 

11 Questions or comments on any of that? 

12 I would ask for your 

13 consideration. Please speak one at a time, if 

14 you would today. Please say your name for the 

15 record each time you speak. There will be a 

16 complete transcript of this meeting made 

17 available to you. If you could be concise and 

18 share the air time, there is lots to be said. 

19 We don't want to waste anyone's time here. 

20 Please keep the focus here. Turn 

21 your cell phones on silent mode. Limit the 

22 sidebar conversations. You have already 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 10

1 gotten used to turning these microphones on 

2 and off. 

3 Webinar participants, we welcome 

4 you. How many do we have, Jack, on the web? 

5 JACK: Seven. 

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Seven joining us 

7 via the web. The Department of Energy is 

8 trying hard to make these meetings accessible 

9 to folks via the web. Please keep your 

10 telephones on mute so that we don't get 

11 feedback here in the room. And if you wish to 

12 speak, raise a question, or make a comment, 

13 please raise your hand on the software -- on 

14 the webinar system and we will try and get you 

15 in this conversation. 

16 So that is all I have here at this 

17 time. Do you want to -- 

18 MR. DOMMU: Sure. 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeremy Dommu. 

20 MR. DOMMU: Hello, everyone. For 

21 the welcome slide, it looks like Doug just 

22 went through it. We did introductions and 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 11

1 discussed the ground rules. We have gone over 

2 the agenda, provided guidance for those 

3 listening via the web. So the purpose of 

4 today's test procedure public meeting is to 

5 present the changes that DOE has made to the 

6 proposed test procedure for television sets. 

7 We will be inviting comment on the test 

8 procedure supplemental notice of proposed 

9 rulemaking, often referred to as an SNOPR 

10 throughout the day. We will discuss next 

11 steps in this rulemaking and invite 

12 participants to raise any additional issues 

13 for discussion. So we look forward to a 

14 lively and fulfilling conversation today. 

15 So throughout today's 

16 presentation, we will see these issues boxes 

17 pop up. So when we see the issue box, it will 

18 be an invitation to present an issue that we 

19 are specifically requesting comment on. The 

20 issues boxes have a letter and then they also 

21 have a footnote that corresponds to the list 

22 of issues on which DOE seeks comment in the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 12

1 SNOPR. So at the end of the actual SNOPR 

2 document, there is a list of specific issues 

3 and we will note how those correspond within 

4 the issue boxes. 

5 The deadline for submitting 

6 comments is in several weeks on April 26. 

7 So at this time, DOE welcomes 

8 opening remarks on the test procedure. So if 

9 anyone in person or via webinar wants to make 

10 any opening remarks, now is your opportunity. 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Opening statements 

12 at this time? I guess we have none. Okay, 

13 you may proceed. 

14 MR. DOMMU: Okay, so I will begin 

15 with a rulemaking history and timeline. So as 

16 you can see here, this is kind of a summary of 

17 what has transpired as DOE has looked to 

18 establish a test procedure for televisions. 

19 So the original test procedure for TVs was 

20 first adopted in 1979. It was repealed in 

21 2009, after the FCC transitioned from analogue 

22 to digital. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 13

1 In 2010, DOE began rulemaking 

2 activities to establish a modernized test 

3 procedure for televisions that began with a 

4 Request for Information publication. Then in 

5 2012, there was an original notice of proposed 

6 rulemaking. Over the last year, DOE has done 

7 quite a bit of additional analysis and 

8 investigation. And last month we published 

9 the supplemental notice of proposed rulemaking 

10 for the TV test procedure. And we are here at 

11 the public meeting on April 4th and we will be 

12 accepting written comments. 

13 And the next step will likely be a 

14 final TV test procedure, bearing having to 

15 publish an additional SNOPR but we are looking 

16 to move forward with this rulemaking as 

17 quickly as we can and we will publish the 

18 final TV test procedure as soon as we are able 

19 to. 

20 For a background and overview, you 

21 will see here the Federal Register notice. It 

22 could be found in the Federal Register. It is 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 14

1 available on the regulations docket, EERE2 2010-BT-TP-0026. 

3 You could also find links to the 

4 documents on DOE's website, which I could 

5 hopefully pull up here. So if you haven't 

6 seen this, I have just pulled up DOE's 

7 rulemaking website. This website has links to 

8 all the important documents related to this 

9 rulemaking. You could see the notice of 

10 proposed rulemaking, documents from last year 

11 and now down here in the table is a 

12 supplemental notice of proposed rulemaking, so 

13 you would see a link to the actual NOPR. 

14 There is a link to the agenda and today's 

15 presentation here as well. So if you are 

16 following along on the webinar, you could go 

17 to the rulemaking web page and pull up the 

18 presentation if you want to follow along at 

19 your own pace. And then there is a number of 

20 supporting documents that provide test results 

21 and test reports for some of the additional 

22 analysis and testing that we performed in 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 15

1 support of today's SNOPR. And those documents 

2 are also - you could find links to them here 

3 on DOE's website. 

4 Okay, so DOE activities since the 

5 SNOPR. So in the last year, there has been 

6 quite a few developments in the world of 

7 establishing test procedures for televisions 

8 that DOE has been reviewing and following 

9 along actively. Those include the ENERGY STAR 

10 Program Requirements for Televisions version 

11 6.0, a draft of CEA-2037-A, and IEC 62087. 

12 Some of these documents have provided further 

13 specification and input into developing test 

14 procedures for televisions. DOE has followed 

15 them and has incorporated some of the aspects 

16 of those test procedures into today's SNOPR. 

17 Additionally following the NOPR, 

18 there were several comments about providing 

19 additional specification for television 

20 testing, particularly as it relates to testing 

21 on-mode with automatic brightness control 

22 enabled by default. So DOE has performed 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 16

1 additional testing to evaluate different test 

2 setups. We also did investigative testing on 

3 the effect of room conditions on automatic 

4 brightness control, investigative testing on 

5 the use of an ND and an IR/UV filter. That is 

6 neutral density and an infrared ultraviolet 

7 filter when performing automatic brightness 

8 control testing. Investigative testing on 

9 input terminals. 

10 And all of the test results from 

11 this investigative testing are available on 

12 regulations.gov, which could be accessed 

13 through the DOE rulemaking website which I 

14 just showed you. So, we will be going through 

15 all of that investigative testing and 

16 discussing the results and the conclusions 

17 that we reached from it throughout today's 

18 presentation. 

19 Well now I will move forward and 

20 what I am going to do is provide a brief 

21 overview of the SNOPR before we get into the 

22 details. I will preface to say that the way 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 17

1 we structured today's public meeting is we 

2 will first provide an overview of what was 

3 originally proposed in the NOPR. We will then 

4 discuss any additional investigative testing 

5 or any additional research that DOE performed. 

6 And then we will get into the new proposal 

7 that has been made in the SNOPR. So we are 

8 going to be focusing today's conversation only 

9 on those areas of the test procedure that have 

10 changed since we last published the NOPR, held 

11 a public meeting and solicited public comment. 

12 So let me provide an overview. 

13 Based on the testing and comments that DOE 

14 received from the NOPR, we have updated the 

15 following sections. 

16 So many of the changes are to 

17 testing on-mode with automatic brightness 

18 control enabled by default. This includes 

19 additional specification on the test setup, 

20 the room setup, the use of filters, light 

21 sources, TV placement. We also updated the 

22 illuminance values for testing. In the NOPR 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 18

1 we proposed to test on-mode of ABC enabled by 

2 default at room illumination of 10, 50, 100, 

3 and 300 lux but now in the SNOPR we have since 

4 changed that proposal and we are now proposing 

5 to test at 3, 12, 35, and 100 lux. We also 

6 have updated a number of definitions and test 

7 conditions in the SNOPR, specifically some are 

8 related to the input terminal and the video 

9 input device. We have added new 

10 specifications on the accuracy of the 

11 measurement equipment to be used in testing. 

12 For standby mode, previously in 

13 the NOPR DOE proposed a test to test standby 

14 mode -- standby active high mode, but that 

15 test has been removed from the SNOPR. We are 

16 no longer proposing a standby active high 

17 test. 

18 We have added a new test to test 

19 standby active low mode. So we will be 

20 discussing that as well. 

21 We have updated energy efficiency 

22 metrics that are reported outputs of the test 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 19

1 procedure. This now includes an output for an 

2 annual energy consumption metric. So we will 

3 get into that today. And then finally we have 

4 provided a sampling plan and rounding 

5 requirements to report the certified 

6 representative rating of television. So those 

7 are all the areas that we have made changes to 

8 since the NOPR and we will be spending today's 

9 meeting to go through those in more detail. 

10 So with that introduction, moving 

11 right along throughout the day, I will welcome 

12 Anthony Rotolo to begin our conversation of 

13 the on-mode with ABC test setup. 

14 MR. ROTOLO: Thanks, Jeremy. I am 

15 Anthony Rotolo from Navigant Consulting. 

16 The first issue that I would like 

17 to talk today is on the test setup for on-mode 

18 with ABC enabled by default. 

19 So in the NOPR, DOE proposed using 

20 a direct light setup, which consisted of a 100 

21 watt halogen incandescent lamp positioned in 

22 front of the TV's ABC sensor, allowing the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 20

1 light to be focused directly into the sensor. 

2 The halogen incandescent lamp also needed to 

3 be capable of delivering between 10 and 300 

4 lux measured at the sensor. 

5 So from there, that is the basis 

6 for our analysis. 

7 In the figure on the right, this 

8 provides a high-level overview of the 

9 chronological testing process, which DOE 

10 conducted following the NOPR. Each one of 

11 these steps represents the analysis which we 

12 did. So that kind of helped set the stage for 

13 this overview. 

14 The first [step] in this research 

15 was to identify the variables of the test 

16 setup, which would impact the power 

17 consumption of the TV. Additional 

18 specification from this research was used to 

19 create two distinct test setups which built 

20 upon the NOPR's specifications. 

21 Both of these test setups were 

22 examples of a direct light test setup and 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 21

1 throughout this discussion we have referred to 

2 them as the adjacent and the distance test 

3 setup. 

4 DOE conducted a round robin 

5 testing to evaluate the repeatability of each 

6 of these test setups as well. And then 

7 following the round robin testing, DOE looked 

8 into several observations, which led to 

9 additional evaluation of infrared and ultra 

10 violet light spectrum testing. These non11 visible light spectrums were determined to be 

12 possible causes for any differences in power 

13 consumptions between the two test setups 

14 observed during testing. 

15 Following this analysis and the 

16 cumulative analysis of this ABC testing, DOE 

17 proposed a new direct light test setup, which 

18 built upon the specification in the NOPR. 

19 Additionally, DOE is including figures which 

20 helped create guidance for lives of 

21 manufacturers for these test setups. 

22 So now we would like to go over 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 22

1 the analysis which helped specify the distance 

2 and the adjacent test setup. 

3 The ABC test setup proposed in the 

4 SNOPR included many new specifications and, 

5 therefore, DOE believes that it would be 

6 beneficial to walk through each of these in 

7 this phase. 

8 First, DOE received feedback from 

9 stakeholders. And although they agreed with a 

10 proposal of a direct light setup, they 

11 requested additional specification and 

12 guidance to help create the [ABC] test setup. 

13 DOE performed evaluation testing 

14 of several variables which were involved in 

15 the ABC test setup. These variables included 

16 the distance between the lamp and the ABC 

17 sensor, the angle from the lamp in relation to 

18 the ABC sensor, the lamp type, and the method 

19 of varying the illuminance of these. 

20 During this investigation, DOE 

21 discovered that all of these variables played 

22 a significant role in the way that ABC sensors 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 23

1 interpret the light and, therefore, impact the 

2 power consumption. 

3 And based on this testing, DOE 

4 believes that these requirements need to be 

5 specified in order to create a repeatable ABC 

6 test setup. 

7 The adjacent and distance setup 

8 were based on this initial research and DOE 

9 believes that they provide additional 

10 specification that improves the repeatability 

11 of this test setup. 

12 Both the adjacent and distance 

13 setup use a 1000 lumen halogen incandescent 

14 lamp. This lamp was used in place of the 100 

15 watt halogen incandescent lamp specified by 

16 the NOPR. The reason for this shift is that 

17 DOE's energy conservation standard for 

18 incandescent reflector lamps is currently 

19 phasing out many 100 watt halogen incandescent 

20 lamps, which makes it difficult for 

21 manufacturers and labs to acquire. 

22 Additionally, DOE believes that a 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 24

1 specification based on lumens ensures a 

2 greater repeatability that the lamp produces 

3 the same light output. Finally, both test 

4 setups use a regulated voltage source to vary 

5 the input voltage of the lamp. 

6 In our initial testing, DOE 

7 discovered that small fluctuations in the 

8 input voltage can affect the light output of 

9 the lamp and, therefore, using a regulated 

10 voltage source ensures that the illuminance 

11 values remain constant throughout the entire 

12 on-mode test. 

13 Finally, both test setups position 

14 the lamp perpendicular to the ABC sensor. 

15 Again, DOE discovered that in their 

16 investigation, variation in angle of the light 

17 entering into the ABC sensor impacts the power 

18 consumption of the TV. 

19 And from there, these test setups 

20 begin to deviate. With the adjacent test 

21 setup that is on the right, it uses a PVC22 reducing pipe to direct the light into the ABC 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 25

1 sensor. Attached to the front housing of the 

2 lamp, this PVC pipe focuses the light into the 

3 ABC sensor with a two-inch outlet that is 

4 pressed flush against the TV's ABC sensor in 

5 front of the bezel of the TV. 

6 The test setup in the figure on 

7 the right, referred to as the distance test 

8 setup, is placed at a fixed distance of five 

9 feet from the ABC sensor and uses a direct 

10 light setup to shine light directly into the 

11 ABC sensor. 

12 It is important to note that in 

13 the distance test setup, the TV has to be 

14 parallel to a vertical reference plane to 

15 ensure that the light entering the ABC sensor 

16 is perpendicular to the sensor. 

17 So after these test setups were 

18 clearly defined, DOE began a round robin 

19 testing, which was designed to evaluate the 

20 repeatability and reproducibility of each of 

21 these test setups. This testing was conducted 

22 at four labs using eight different TVs. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 26

1 Each lab tested the adjacent test 

2 and distance test setup 3 times at 8 different 

3 illuminance points, being 0, 10, 12, 35, 50, 

4 75, 100, and 300 lux. During this testing, 

5 the IEC dynamic broadcast content was 

6 displayed for a ten-minute period, while the 

7 average power consumption was measured and 

8 recorded over that duration. 

9 Upon completion of testing and 

10 data collection, this data was evaluated to 

11 determine which test setup had greater 

12 repeatability and reproducibility. 

13 DOE used a coefficient of 

14 variation as one of the main metrics to 

15 perform this analysis. The coefficient of 

16 variation is a ratio of the standard deviation 

17 to the average value in a specific data set. 

18 This calculation measured the relative 

19 variation in a relative data set. 

20 Specifically, this was looked at, at specific 

21 illuminance values. 

22 The full data set and round robin 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 27

1 report can be found at the regulations.gov 

2 website, if you would like to view it in its 

3 entirety. 

4 Here we have our analysis of the 

5 round robin testing. The figure on the top 

6 compares the average coefficient of variation 

7 for each illuminance value by specific test 

8 setup. The blue bars are the distance setup, 

9 whereas the green bars are the adjacent test 

10 setup. And as you can see, in many cases, the 

11 distance test setup had a lower coefficient of 

12 variation than the adjacent test setup. 

13 The table beneath this shows the 

14 specific values for each illuminance value 

15 with a direct comparison. The average 

16 coefficient of variations value was calculated 

17 over all illuminance values for the distance 

18 in the adjacent test setup. The distance test 

19 setup had an average of 2.2 percent variation; 

20 whereas, the adjacent had a 3.5 percent 

21 variation. 

22 Based on this analysis, DOE 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 28

1 concluded that distance test setup was more 

2 repeatable and reproducible than the adjacent 

3 test setup and, therefore, is proposing to use 

4 the distance test setup for ABC testing. 

5 Specifically, DOE is proposing 

6 that a 1,000 lumen halogen incandescent PAR 

7 30S shall be used as the lamp for this test 

8 setup. The light output of this lamp shall be 

9 a standard spectrum. Standard spectrum is 

10 defined by EPCA as a lamp which does not have 

11 a special coating or other features that 

12 modify the light wavelengths that exit the 

13 lamp or change a perceived color of the lamp's 

14 light. 

15 DOE is also specifying that the 

16 illuminance values shall be varied using a 

17 voltage regulated source. The lamp shall be 

18 placed a fixed distance of five feet from the 

19 ABC sensor and align perpendicular to the ABC 

20 sensor. And all four corners of the TV shall 

21 be aligned equidistant from a vertical 

22 reference point. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 29

1 At this time, DOE would like to 

2 seek comments from interested parties on these 

3 specifications of the ABC test setup. 

4 Specifically, the specification for a 1000 

5 lumen halogen incandescent APR 30S lamp, the 

6 fixed distance which the lamp is placed from 

7 the TV, the alignment of four corners to a 

8 vertical reference plane and the variation of 

9 the illuminance values using a regulated 

10 voltage source. 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Who would like to 

12 start? Jon. 

13 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, this is Jon 

14 Fairhurst from Sharp Electronics Corporation. 

15 Let's see. There are a few 

16 concerns that have come up in this area. None 

17 of them major concerns. They are more minor 

18 issues, potentially anyway. So one concern 

19 from my colleagues in Japan was the 

20 availability of a PAR 30S-type lamp 

21 internationally. As I mentioned, I am 

22 involved in IEC as well, so I am doing my best 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 30

1 to make sure that we have harmonized standards 

2 throughout the world, and much of the testing 

3 for televisions manufactured from the U.S. 

4 will be done outside of the U.S. 

5 My colleagues did not find, at 

6 least in their searches -- I don't know how 

7 long they searched, how deeply they searched -

8 - but they didn't find that in the Japanese 

9 market. It is difficult to prove a negative 

10 so I can't say that there aren't any but care 

11 should be taken to make sure that whatever 

12 light is chosen that it is available globally. 

13 Another concern, this is again an 

14 international item and it is fairly minor is 

15 that the distances quoted are in feet and 

16 inches. In order to harmonize, IEC is 

17 required to do things in metric values and so 

18 in my written comments I will propose that 

19 rather than 2 feet from a nearest surface, it 

20 would be 1.5 meters -- or excuse me, 0.5 

21 meters minimum and that instead of 5 feet, 

22 that it be 1.5 meter plus or minus 0.1 meter. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 31

1 I don't believe that would have a material 

2 effect on the test but it would allow 

3 international harmonization. I think that is 

4 a positive thing. 

5 I see that you have a plus or 

6 minus 3 degrees, the latest draft within IEC 

7 is plus or minus 5 degrees but I don't believe 

8 that it would be difficult to incorporate 3 

9 degrees into the international test procedure. 

10 So I will be looking to do that. 

11 In fact if I put on my industry 

12 hat, rather than my international hat, one 

13 thing that industry is concerned about and I 

14 think that this is a concern that is shared 

15 within the overall community is that we have a 

16 very repeatable, robust standard. So 

17 tightening up to the 3 degrees rather than 5 

18 is one that doesn't cause difficulty should be 

19 no problem. But we do want to make sure that 

20 from lab to lab, from day to day, that we get 

21 as close to the same as what was possible. 

22 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. If you 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 32

1 look at the comment box, there are four 

2 specific items there. I hope we can get 

3 comments, should that be useful, on any or all 

4 of them. 

5 Yes, please, Bill. 

6 MR. SCHINDLER: Hi, this is Bill 

7 Schindler. 

8 I agree with nearly everything 

9 that Jon said. Our colleagues in Japan have 

10 problems with a PAR 30S availability for point 

11 number one and their solution was to use the 

12 same specification as used in ENERGY STAR 

13 displays version 6.0, which I believe is a 980 

14 lumen plus or minus 5 percent. So that is 

15 what they are currently using for ENERGY STAR 

16 displays. They would like to keep using that. 

17 However, because of the 

18 variability of this ABC testing, we certainly 

19 appreciate the utmost specifications are 

20 needed for getting repeatability and 

21 reproducibility. That is our mantra. That is 

22 what we really, really need. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 33

1 So it is conflicted. They want 

2 repeatability, which would, I think, lend 

3 itself towards using a PAR 30S but the problem 

4 is that they can't get PAR 30S or it might be 

5 available, a hard time to get. So there has 

6 got to be some solution in the middle there. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeremy Dommu. 

8 MR. DOMMU: This is Jeremy. So 

9 originally, as Anthony went over, we proposed 

10 the 100 watt halogen incandescent lamp from 

11 the NOPR, as we discussed. We wanted to 

12 provide more specification. We also wanted to 

13 ensure that the incandescent reflect a lamp 

14 standard, which DOE put into place, that those 

15 type of lamps will be phased out. So we want 

16 to make sure that obviously the lamp is 

17 readily available. 

18 So the question is, do you have 

19 any suggestions or potential solutions of a 

20 lamp that would meet those requirements to 

21 ensure that repeatability and reproducibility 

22 is not affected but is available worldwide or 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 34

1 are you suggesting that we go with the EPA 

2 definition from the displays test procedure. 

3 Do we know any way we could be more specific 

4 to make a lamp available that is available 

5 everywhere? And is it really that big of a 

6 concern that this type of lamp is not 

7 available? Is it possible that people could 

8 ship them to labs from the United States or 

9 obtain them in any other way? 

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

11 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, this is Jon 

12 Fairhurst from Sharp. 

13 I can take an action on the 

14 various mailing lists within both the CEA 

15 standardization and IEC standardization 

16 communities and ask people to look for 

17 solutions. Being that I think all of us are 

18 residing in the U.S., we don't necessarily 

19 have as much experience in what is available 

20 worldwide but I can hopefully get that 

21 information, if we could find some 

22 international standards. And frankly, through 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 35

1 IEC, there may be some lamp standards that 

2 would give us something very specific and with 

3 worldwide availability. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie Stephens. 

5 MR. STEPHENS: I'm Charlie 

6 Stephens. Might I suggest that we ask the 

7 lamp manufacturers to come up with an idea, 

8 Phillips, Osram, those folks? I think some of 

9 them will be sitting in this room next 

10 Tuesday. So maybe they have some suggestions 

11 about products that they sell in international 

12 markets that are equivalent to another. And 

13 like I said, in less than a week, I think they 

14 will be sitting here at the table with us. So 

15 that might be handy. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

17 Nothing now, Jon, that you know 

18 of, just to be crystal clear. Yes, nothing 

19 now. Okay. 

20 MR. FAIRHURST: However, I will do 

21 my best to get a result before the comments 

22 are due, which is in what, April -- 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 36

1 MR. DOMMU: April 26th. 

2 MR. FAIRHURST: -- 26th. 

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, so take 

4 another quick peek at the comment box. 

5 Distance test, the alignment issue, and 

6 illuminance values. Any other comments on 

7 those? 

8 Jon. 

9 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes. Once again, 

10 Jon Fairhurst from Sharp. In the IEC draft 

11 that we have, we do have an additional 

12 requirement that -- well the unit under test 

13 can use its integrative stand and it can be on 

14 a table that the table not protrude beyond the 

15 edge of the stand because that could be 

16 potentially a reflective surface. But the 

17 table itself might fall within two feet or 

18 half a meter of the IR sensor. So it seemed 

19 to be a reasonable compromise that there be 

20 allowance for a table but as long as it can't 

21 protrude beyond the stand that that would 

22 minimize any impact of reflection. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 37

1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

2 Additional comments before we move on? 

3 MR. ROTOLO: So based on the 

4 initial round robin testing that DOE 

5 performed, there were some observations made 

6 in this testing. Specifically, many TVs 

7 saturated at relatively low illuminance 

8 values, seen as low as 10 lux. Just to put 

9 this in perspective, when we say saturate, 

10 what we are referring to is the power 

11 consumption which the TV reaches. It reaches 

12 the max power consumption at a given value and 

13 that is no longer increasing as you increase 

14 illuminance values. 

15 So what that means is at 10 lux 

16 the TV reached its maximum power consumption 

17 for this ABC response and increasing from 

18 there in illuminance values, the TV no longer 

19 increases in power. We found that this 

20 [saturation] was relatively low and most 

21 likely was not typical of what you would see 

22 under real world conditions. Therefore, DOE 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 38

1 investigated this. 

2 We also noticed that the response 

3 between the two setups varied as well. So 

4 further testing was done to look into these. 

5 As you can see in figure of TV 1 

6 and TV 5, they show the power consumption 

7 response curves for both the adjacent and 

8 distance test setup. The adjacent is the blue 

9 curve whereas the distance tested up is the 

10 red curve. For TV 1, you can see that there 

11 is some variation between the two curves but, 

12 in comparison to TV 5, they are significantly 

13 closer in relation. The reason these TVs were 

14 selected for follow-on testing was because of 

15 this range. For TV 1, the curves tended to be 

16 a bit closer together; whereas for TV 5, we 

17 had a larger range between the response 

18 curves. 

19 From there, DOE looked into the 

20 light spectrum of each test setup and the 

21 corresponding effects which it had on the 

22 ABC's sensor. Research into the ABC sensor 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 39

1 technology showed that many less expensive ABC 

2 sensors are sensitive to the near infrared 

3 spectrum and by sensitive we mean that it 

4 would respond to an increase in power 

5 consumption similar to visible light. 

6 The figures below show the test 

7 setups and that the near infrared spectrum 

8 produces significantly more intensity than the 

9 visible light spectrum. 

10 Further evaluation of the light 

11 spectrum associated with each test setup 

12 showed that the adjacent test setup produced a 

13 significantly higher IR to visible light 

14 ratio. This was seen especially true at lower 

15 illuminance values for the adjacent test 

16 setup. The higher ratio was most likely due 

17 to the close proximity the lamp is to the ABC 

18 sensor. At this distance, the lamp is 

19 required to be dimmed significantly more than 

20 the distance test setup in order to achieve a 

21 similar illuminance value. This issue is 

22 compounded when you measure at lower 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 40

1 illuminance values. The lamp has to be 

2 further dimmed to reach the lower illuminance 

3 values. The high amount of IR light was 

4 believed to have caused this early saturation 

5 at 10 lux for many of these TVs. 

6 Based on this analysis, DOE 

7 performed testing using a IR and UV blocking 

8 filter, which allowed only the visible light 

9 spectrum to enter the ABC sensor. This 

10 testing was performed using the distance test 

11 setup at 8 illuminance values which were 3, 

12 10, 12, 35, 50, 75, 100 and 300. 

13 We would just like to note again 

14 that this testing occurred after the round 

15 robin testing. And we would also like to note 

16 the spectrum which the filter allowed to enter 

17 into the TV's ABC sensor was between 390 

18 nanometers and 710 nanometers, which is 

19 typically considered the visible light 

20 spectrum. 

21 This figure shows the distance 

22 test setup which use the IR filter placed over 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 41

1 the TV's ABC sensor. And this was the test 

2 setup that was used in our follow-on testing. 

3 Based on this testing, these are 

4 our results for TV 1 and TV 5. The red curve 

5 shows the power consumption response with the 

6 distance setup without the IR filter and the 

7 blue curve shows the response with the IR 

8 filter. And you can see in both cases, they 

9 respond to the light a little bit differently. 

10 And the result is that the TV saturates at a 

11 higher illuminance value. For TV 5, in order 

12 to conserve space, we went to the 100 

13 illuminance value but the blue curve continues 

14 on to saturate at 300 lux. 

15 For TV 1, it saturated at 35 lux 

16 without the IR sensor and shifted to 50 lux 

17 with the IR filter. And for TV 5, it shifted 

18 from 75 lux to 300 lux. 

19 DOE believes that saturation at 

20 higher illuminance values is more 

21 representative of real world conditions and, 

22 therefore, is proposing to use a 67 mm IR/UV 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 42

1 blocking filter, which will be placed over the 

2 TV's ABC sensor in addition to the use of the 

3 distance test setup. 

4 At this time, DOE seeks comments 

5 from interested parties on the proposal of the 

6 test setup which places the IR/UV blocking 

7 filter over the ABC test sensor. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon? 

9 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, this is Jon 

10 Fairhurst of Sharp. 

11 I guess the first thing I wanted 

12 to ask about, if I can ask some questions 

13 first for clarification before we get into the 

14 discussion of the point, I am interested in 

15 the pages in the -- let's see it is the 

16 analysis it shows page 26. It seems that the 

17 early saturation -- let's see, it is the graph 

18 previous -- there. It shows the early 

19 saturation that we experienced that we have 

20 been so concerned about may have been more due 

21 to the test procedure which had the close 

22 proximity and no IR filter as compared to 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 43

1 maybe how the televisions were acting in the 

2 real world. So that is possibly an 

3 interesting discovery that we might have been 

4 seeing, rather than a design flaw or a design 

5 issue, a testing issue in the past. 

6 So I was wondering if you had any 

7 comment on that. 

8 MR. ROTOLO: We did some research 

9 into the ABC sensors themselves. We noticed 

10 that certain sensors do compensate for the 

11 fact that they may receive a high amount of 

12 infrared light. And on these sensors, 

13 essentially they have a filter which doesn't -

14 - it essentially is an analogue output and it 

15 doesn't relay that into the analogue output. 

16 But for many of these other 

17 sensors, as we showed, the test setup produces 

18 a high amount of the infrared spectrum. And 

19 it does relate that into what it may think as 

20 the visible light spectrum. 

21 MR. FAIRHURST: Very good. And 

22 this is Jon Fairhurst, still. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 44

1 Then with the -- I guess another 

2 thing that I am wondering about is if the 

3 difference in the curves do you believe might 

4 be between adjacent and the distance setup be 

5 that the distance setup is more of a small 

6 point source while the adjacent setup is a 

7 broader angle or more diffuse light source? 

8 MR. ROTOLO: I guess, based on our 

9 testing, that is hard to say. 

10 I do, going back to your first 

11 question, I do believe that the close 

12 proximity to the sensor is what did cause the 

13 saturation because it required the right 

14 output to be considerably more in the IR 

15 spectrum than in the visible light spectrum. 

16 But in terms of looking at more 

17 diffuse, it is hard to say if that was an 

18 issue. We do know that because the light was 

19 further back, it could be operating at more of 

20 the specified voltage range. So it would be 

21 producing light which would be closer to the 

22 visible light rather than the infrared 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 45

1 spectrum. 

2 MR. FAIRHURST: I see. And then 

3 let's see, finally I am wondering when 

4 applying the IR filter do we believe that 

5 this, in a sense, converts the test setup, 

6 which is synthetic, if you will, if that 

7 improves the modeling of this setup to look 

8 more like what we expect in the consumer's 

9 home. So I know that when you are looking at 

10 sunlight, the ratio of IR actually goes down. 

11 There is IR spectrum, of course, but it is a 

12 bluer, higher temperature light. And that is 

13 the condition of where we actually want the 

14 ABC sensors to respond to make the television 

15 bright, while viewing under bright daylight. 

16 And then but in the home where at 

17 night when you are using the typical home 

18 lighting, I am wondering when inserting the IR 

19 filter, are we making it look more or less 

20 like the light that would actually be in the 

21 home. And of course this will vary, depending 

22 on if you have incandescent or florescent or 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 46

1 LEDs. And then with LED lighting I know there 

2 is a big variety in the spectra from what you 

3 will see from different models in 

4 manufacturer's lights. 

5 So anyway but the question is, 

6 does the IR filter, do you believe, help make 

7 the model look more like the home or 

8 potentially diverge a bit from the home? 

9 MR. ROTOLO: So I think when 

10 creating this test setup it was always this 

11 compromise between what is a real world 

12 condition and what is a repeatable test setup. 

13 I think the IR filter allows us to 

14 reach what we believe is a more representative 

15 test setup, allowing that like we pointed out 

16 the filter allowed 390 nanometers to 710 

17 nanometers, those wavelengths to enter. 

18 Essentially it was a band pass filter, which 

19 allowed those wavelengths to enter the ABC 

20 sensor. 

21 In terms of the other side of 

22 those, the ultraviolet spectrum which tends to 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 47

1 be produced a little bit more by natural 

2 sunlight and on the other side of that you 

3 have artificial light, which tends to produce, 

4 in terms of incandescent, more of the infrared 

5 spectrum. 

6 So I think this is a good 

7 compromise between those two sides of the 

8 spectrum, while still allowing the visible 

9 spectrum to enter into the ABC sensor. 

10 MR. FAIRHURST: And then my final 

11 question has to do with the specification of 

12 the IR/UV filter. I was wondering did you do 

13 any study to find if they varied from 

14 manufacturer to manufacturer if we needed to 

15 have some tighter specification than use a 

16 IR/UV filter because different manufacturers 

17 might have different cutoff points, different 

18 losses and so forth. 

19 MR. ROTOLO: I think this is 

20 something that we will probably look into a 

21 little bit. Right now, I don't have a good 

22 response but I think this is something that we 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 48

1 would like to look into a little bit. 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Very good. Charlie 

3 Stephens? 

4 MR. STEPHENS: Yes, to follow up 

5 on Jon's question a little bit and your 

6 answer, you have got the IR filter downstream, 

7 essentially, of the illuminance meter. And so 

8 I am just wondering how much of the 

9 illuminance is changed -- the level of 

10 illuminance is changed by the filter, how much 

11 reduction in illuminance you would get on the 

12 other side of the filter. 

13 If you put a second illuminance 

14 meter on the other side of the filter, what is 

15 the actual value when you are down at the 12 

16 lux area, 35 lux area? What percentage have 

17 you lost when measuring in front of the filter 

18 instead of downstream? 

19 MR. ROTOLO: So we actually did 

20 testing to look into that. Let me bring that 

21 up. I put it in the background in case such a 

22 question arose. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 49

1 MR. DOMMU: While Anthony is 

2 pulling this up, this is a document that DOE 

3 has posted on regulations.gov. It is called 

4 the IR or the effective infrared and neutral 

5 density filters on testing. So this is 

6 currently available on regulations.gov. You 

7 will find a link to it on the rulemaking 

8 website. 

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Jeremy. 

10 MR. ROTOLO: So we looked into two 

11 test setups. And actually, this was one of 

12 the test setups which we looked into for the 

13 distance. 

14 This is the first test setup which 

15 we looked into where, like what you were 

16 saying, the filter is downstream from the 

17 illuminance meter. And then we looked into it 

18 at on the other side of it where we measured 

19 the illuminance and then placed the filter in 

20 front of it to see really what the illuminance 

21 meter was measuring. 

22 Our thoughts were the illuminance 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 50

1 meter should be modeled based on visible light 

2 and should not be affected but we wanted to 

3 verify. We did this with two TVs. We also 

4 looked into this with the adjacent test setup 

5 and we have results, which I will just briefly 

6 touch on these first. They showed as what we 

7 would have expected, that the infrared light 

8 because it was so close was causing the sensor 

9 to saturate at a lower level, whereas when we 

10 place the filter in front of it, it caused it 

11 to saturate at a higher level. 

12 But going back to the comparison 

13 between the two distance test setups, we found 

14 that for the most part, they were measuring 

15 the same values. We did find some small 

16 fluctuation in power consumption between the 

17 two test setups, but we do believe that the 

18 illuminance meters are designed to see the 

19 visible light spectrum. So it should be the 

20 same on either side of the filter. 

21 I guess in a case where you do see 

22 small fluctuation, I think it is okay, as long 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 51

1 as you specify where the filter is placed. So 

2 if all testing is conducted with the filter 

3 placed in front of the sensor, it makes that a 

4 repeatable setup regardless. 

5 MR. DOMMU: And one more note on 

6 that. Keep in mind so the results that 

7 Anthony showed, I think they are very close to 

8 one another but the setups were slightly 

9 different if you go back to the diagram in the 

10 sense that instead of one, the filter is 

11 actually placed right in front of the lamp. 

12 Where in setup two, if you go to the next 

13 slide, the filter now is right in front of the 

14 TV. So I don't believe that we actually -- we 

15 might have done some spot testing, I'm not 

16 sure if we have the results, where we kept the 

17 filter and the meter right next to the TV but 

18 swapped the order. But I think the test 

19 comparison, which Anthony just showed is at 

20 least a pretty good proxy that supports our 

21 belief that the illuminance meter is designed 

22 in a way that it would only recognize the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 52

1 illuminance in the visible light spectrum. 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Bijit. 

3 MR. KUNDU: Bijit Kundu with 

4 Energy Solutions. 

5 I am curious with this question 

6 for DOE on the graphs on slide 31 -- it was 

7 26. I know DOE presents it in terms of 

8 average power and I understand why. I am just 

9 curious if DOE also measured the screen 

10 luminance for throughout the ABC testing. 

11 And, if so, if that data was available or DOE 

12 can make a comment on what the data looked 

13 like for screen luminance. 

14 MR. ROTOLO: We did not measure 

15 screen luminance at these values. 

16 MR. KUNDU: I'm talking about 

17 slide 26. 

18 MR. KLINKE: Sorry. This is Kurt 

19 Klinke from Navigant. And to elaborate a 

20 little bit more, the reason that we didn't 

21 measure luminance because it is a dynamic 

22 content, so the luminance is constantly 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 53

1 changing throughout the ten-minute period 

2 because it is actually a video. 

3 So, depending on where you are 

4 point a luminance meter at a certain corner, 

5 directly in the center, it is going to vary so 

6 widely across the test that we couldn't really 

7 give you a value for the luminance over this 

8 ten-minute period. 

9 MR. KUNDU: A follow-up question, 

10 then. I guess when you observed the test, did 

11 you see this kind of saturation that you see 

12 in slide 26 in terms of the brightness of the 

13 screen? Did you see it go jump from one spot 

14 to another and it stayed there or any 

15 observations? 

16 MR. KLINKE: Yes, especially in 

17 the situations where it went from testing at 

18 zero and then saturating immediately to one of 

19 the lower lux. Yes, there was a large jump in 

20 overall brightness from the screen. So there 

21 was a general correlation between screen 

22 brightness and then overall power consumption 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 54

1 seen during the test. 

2 MR. KUNDU: Sorry, one last 

3 follow-up on this issue. 

4 So is DOE's assumption then that 

5 the power consumption that is being shown here 

6 is directly related to screen luminance? 

7 MR. ROTOLO: Yes, we believe that 

8 is the case. We also we do have -- I believe 

9 we do have some amount of data showing a 

10 correlation to that effect that at -- you can 

11 see it in a more gradual response shows it a 

12 bit better but we do have some data that 

13 points to that conclusion as well. 

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Bill? 

15 MR. SCHINDLER: Hi, this is Bill 

16 Schindler. In general, I would think that an 

17 IR filter, if it could be specified really 

18 well in the meters and all that, would be a 

19 good idea because it would cut out the 

20 infrared and the UV. And as the lamp voltage 

21 changes, obviously the ratio of the infrared 

22 changes, the spectrum changes. So that is 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 55

1 all, in theory a great idea. 

2 My concern is again in 

3 repeatability and reproducibility. Two issues 

4 that we are introducing which may have 

5 unforeseen consequences. One, as Jon already 

6 quickly mentioned, the IR band pass's filter 

7 itself, not only is the cutoff frequency very 

8 important, the lower frequency to higher 

9 frequency as you pointed out, the transmission 

10 of what is actually being passed, and you 

11 alluded to that, that some of these filters 

12 might have a 70 percent transmission in that 

13 band pass. Some might be 50 percent. It 

14 depends upon the coatings that they are using. 

15 So it almost like requires that 

16 either get really tightly specked in terms of 

17 that transmission as well as the frequency, 

18 the percentage transmitted in the band pass 

19 region and how that is done. Otherwise, 

20 different filters are going to have really 

21 different results. 

22 The same thing would be true of 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 56

1 the illuminance meter. Although your data 

2 showed your auxiliary report there, the IR/ND 

3 filter report showed very little difference on 

4 test setup one and test setup two, whereas one 

5 had the filter in front of the illuminance 

6 meter and one didn't, well that Minolta meter 

7 must not be sensitive to IR. But I am not 

8 sure that every illuminance meter is that way. 

9 Do you know why is it not sensitive to IR? 

10 If it is a silicon detector and we are using 

11 silicon detectors in the ABC sensor, what is 

12 the deal here? Do they have IR band pass 

13 filters over the illuminance meter? Is it 

14 built-in or is it part of the spec? And 

15 because I don't know the answer to that, I am 

16 just saying like wow, we are putting a new 

17 layer in here which really needs to be 

18 controlled, not only in terms of the filter 

19 but in terms of the meter as well. Otherwise, 

20 we could have real disconnects from labs 

21 around the world. And I am scared about doing 

22 that. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 57

1 The round robin test was great. 

2 You guys put in a lot of effort. It is really 

3 great data. And you know with the distance 

4 setup without the IR filter, it wasn't so bad. 

5 So maybe if we get too fancy and put more 

6 stuff into it, unless we have done a lot of 

7 tests and know that every lab is going to have 

8 the same IR filter and the same meter, I think 

9 there is a potential problem there. 

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis. 

11 MR. DESROCHES: Just to address 

12 your comment on the illuminance meter itself. 

13 The illuminance meter is designed to output 

14 in lux and by definition lux is weighted 

15 according to the human response function. So 

16 even though you may have two different 

17 illuminance meters from two different 

18 manufacturers, they use different silicon, but 

19 they should be doing some sort of internal 

20 correction to get back to just the human 

21 response function, which is mostly visible 

22 light. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 58

1 So I think the concern on the 

2 meter side is that there shouldn't be 

3 variation from meter to meter based on that 

4 output definition. I just wanted to address 

5 that. 

6 MR. SCHINDLER: That is very 

7 helpful. If that is the case that they are 

8 all weighted to a certain frequency response 

9 which you are saying they are. 

10 MR. DESROCHES: Yes, if they are 

11 outputting a value in lux, then it should be 

12 a standard definition of the weight. 

13 MR. SCHINDLER: Great. That is 

14 something I didn't know. 

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

16 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, this is Jon 

17 Fairhurst from Sharp. 

18 I’m wondering if there would be an 

19 objection to having the test procedure where 

20 you put the IR sensor -- IR filter in front of 

21 the lux meter when you calibrate so if there 

22 is any pass band loss or if the transition 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 59

1 bands are slightly different than what the 

2 meter is seeing, that that could be 

3 essentially calibrated out so that when the 

4 meter says it is seeing 12 lux or something, 

5 then the television is being measured in 

6 exactly the same condition behind the IR 

7 filter. 

8 I am wondering if anyone believes 

9 that that would harm the measurement. 

10 MR. ROTOLO: I think that is 

11 something we could consider. 

12 MR. FAIRHURST: Because that would 

13 reduce concerns about you know if there is a 

14 meter that has an improper weighting or 

15 something like this. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis. 

17 MR. DESROCHES: Just one quick 

18 comment. There was some spot testing that was 

19 done just above and behind the illuminance 

20 meter that is not quite the image that was 

21 shown there. The one reason why the filter is 

22 placed directly against the television is 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 60

1 because once you take the illuminance meter 

2 out, there is now a gap if the meter is in 

3 front. And so to do the test you either have 

4 to hold the filter or you have to put the 

5 filter back up against the TV. So that is why 

6 the test was chosen, so that the filter was 

7 directly adjacent, flush against the 

8 television and the meter is in front of it. 

9 So that is the reason for that testing. 

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. These are 

11 good comments. Charlie? 

12 MR. STEPHENS: I just have, you 

13 know I want to echo an earlier comment about 

14 trying to get some confidence. And I have no 

15 reason to believe this is not true but I would 

16 like to make sure to the extent we can that 

17 whatever setup we use and whatever results 

18 come out of it somewhat resemble what the 

19 television is predictive of what the 

20 television will due in a consumers home. We 

21 are spending a lot of time and effort to 

22 understand that, to measure that. And we are 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 61

1 hoping that the test procedure, however you 

2 design it, the results come out of it that are 

3 predictable. So we can use it for power 

4 planning. 

5 MR. BROOKMAN: Got you. Okay. 

6 Have we covered this sufficiently? 

7 MR. ROTOLO: Yes, I think we have. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: We are moving on. 

9 MR. ROTOLO: So the next issue I 

10 would like to discuss is illuminance values. 

11 So in the NOPR, DOE proposed testing ABC at 

12 four illuminance values, weighting them 

13 equally in our output metric. The proposed 

14 values were 10, 50, 100, and 300 lux. 

15 So based on feedback which DOE 

16 received from the NOPR public meeting, and the 

17 results from the round robin testing, DOE 

18 wanted to reevaluate the proposed illuminance 

19 values. And in this reevaluation, they looked 

20 into a report conducted by CLASP, which 

21 released a report on the analysis of 

22 background illuminance levels during 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 62

1 television viewing conditions. This report 

2 indicated that 89 percent of viewership 

3 occurred between the zero and 100 lux values 

4 and that viewership rarely occurred at the 300 

5 lux condition. 

6 DOE would also like to note that 

7 CEA has proposed the 3 lux illuminance value 

8 in their recent version of CEA-2037-A. 

9 Based on this additional input and 

10 analysis, DOE is now proposing four new 

11 illuminance values, which are 3, 12, 35, and 

12 100. DOE is also retaining its proposal to 

13 equally weight testing at these points for the 

14 output metric. And at this time, DOE seeks 

15 comment from interested parties on this 

16 proposal. 

17 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon, I see you are 

18 nodding your head. 

19 MR. FAIRHURST: Right. So anyway 

20 I guess I can say -- this is Jon Fairhurst -- 

21 that we concur. 

22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 63

1 That is helpful to the Department. 

2 Bijit? 

3 MR. KUNDU: Bijit Kundu with 

4 Energy Solutions. Actually we would agree 

5 with the Department on these, on the level of 

6 the illuminance values. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

8 So additional comments before we move on? 

9 Yes, Bijit. 

10 MR. KUNDU: I guess I do have 

11 another follow-up question not related to the 

12 actual values in terms of the weight of 

13 proposing to equally weight the values. 

14 Can the Department comment on why 

15 they decided to weight the values and, 

16 instead, just have manufacturers report at 

17 each of the illuminance values. I understand, 

18 based on some CEA study and class study that 

19 these illuminance values are representative of 

20 the home. However, we do recognize that these 

21 are relatively limited studies and so I was 

22 just curious on some of the rationale from the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 64

1 Department. 

2 MR. DOMMU: Yes, this is Jeremy. 

3 I mean we weight them in order to calculate 

4 the average power and on-mode when ABC is 

5 enabled by default, which is one of the 

6 primary outputs of the test procedure. 

7 If we just reported them 

8 individually, I don't think you can 

9 necessarily make any clear outputs of what the 

10 average power mode is because of the variation 

11 in room illuminance or when people are 

12 watching television. 

13 We also are proposing the AEC 

14 metric which uses the P , the power in on-

 on

15 mode when ABC is enabled by default as an 

16 input into that. So we really need to have 

17 that on-mode power output, which is the 

18 weighted average of the on-mode in those four 

19 illumination points in order to provide the 

20 outputs of our test procedure that we are 

21 proposing. 

22 MR. KUNDU: So then I guess my 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 65

1 follow-up question would be then how did you 

2 decide to weight them equally. 

3 MR. DOMMU: I know that there have 

4 been a number of room illumination studies 

5 that we relied on that showed that in most 

6 cases that these are illuminance points that 

7 represent approximately 25 percent of viewing. 

8 MR. ROTOLO: Also a lot of studies 

9 indicated that there was heavy viewership that 

10 occurred at the lower lux values. And these 

11 points weight heavier because there are more 

12 of them on the lower end. So that also kind 

13 of concurs with what we have seen in studies. 

14 Also another side note. By having 

15 an output metric of P with all of these 

 on

16 illuminance values calculated, it is also 

17 comparable to a TV that does not have ABC18 enabled by default. So regardless between the 

19 two cases if your TV doesn't have an ABC 

20 sensor or if doesn't have it enabled by 

21 default, you still get a single value for the 

22 on-mode power. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 66

1 MR. KUNDU: Sorry. A little 

2 clarification on your statement. You 

3 mentioned something about heavier weighting at 

4 the lower ends. 

5 MR. ROTOLO: Because there are 3 

6 points of 35 lux and beneath it, it kind of 

7 lends itself to. 

8 MR. KUNDU: Okay and I guess one 

9 more last follow-up I think -- I hope. 

10 Because the output here is a 

11 weighted average, would another policymaking 

12 organization be able to weight ABC differently 

13 once, this test procedure went final? 

14 MR. DOMMU: I could answer that 

15 question. So once this becomes a final 

16 regulatory test procedure, then the 

17 manufacturers must comply with the test 

18 procedure when making representations of the 

19 energy consumption of televisions. 

20 So as our output of on-mode with 

21 ABC enabled by default would, therefore, need 

22 to be used when making that representation. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 67

1 MR. BROOKMAN: I want to clarify 

2 one thing. If you look at slide 36, that 

3 first bullet in the green box, just make sure 

4 we are all aware of that. Four equally 

5 weighted illuminance values. Right? Okay. 

6 MR. ROTOLO: So as I mentioned in 

7 the previous slides, CEA is proposing the 3 

8 lux illuminance value. And based on our 

9 illuminance points, we are also proposing the 

10 3 lux illuminance value. 

11 In CEA-2037, they proposed two 

12 methods of coming to or arriving at the 3 lux 

13 value. The first method is a more 

14 conventional approach, which is measuring this 

15 value at the ABC sensor. 

16 The second method uses a neutral 

17 density filter which uniformly blocks light to 

18 the ABC sensor. So an example of this in 

19 practice would be to use a 2 stop neutral 

20 density filter. These filters block 75 

21 percent of light. 

22 So how this would work, you would 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 68

1 measure 12 lux at your ABC sensor. Then by 

2 placing your neutral density filter in front 

3 of the sensor, your resulting value by you TV 

4 would be 3 lux. 

5 DOE wishes to harmonize with these 

6 methods with CEA. And in order to do this, 

7 DOE has performed testing to verify these test 

8 methods. 

9 So this figure shows the more 

10 conventional approach where the illuminance is 

11 measured directly at the ABC sensor. And this 

12 was done at the 3 lux value. 

13 Now this test setup shows the ND 

14 filter placed in front of the ABC sensor. 

15 Prior to this, you would measure 12 lux at 

16 your ABC sensor, then place your filter in 

17 front of it. 

18 So DOE tested both of these test 

19 setups with three TVs and the resulting values 

20 were that in two cases we saw that there was 

21 little to no difference between the test 

22 setups but in one case we did see a difference 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 69

1 of 9.38 percent between the two test setups. 

2 The most probable reason for this 

3 difference was due to, we are assuming that, 

4 infrared light at the lower illuminance value. 

5 So you can see that in the case where the ND 

6 filter was used, 12 lux was measured first and 

7 potentially reduced the amount of infrared 

8 light to the ABC sensor. 

9 So in an attempt to normalize 

10 testing that in either case measuring in front 

11 of the ABC sensor or using the ND filter, 

12 testing was repeated using the IR blocking 

13 filter to determine if our hypothesis was 

14 correct. 

15 These results show that the most 

16 significant differences between the two test 

17 setups were again with TV 5, but in this case 

18 we saw only a difference of 0.37 percent 

19 between the two test methods. 

20 So based on this testing, DOE 

21 believes that using either method to arrive at 

22 the 3 lux illuminance value is sufficient when 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 70

1 using the IR UV blocking filter. 

2 So at this time, DOE requests 

3 comment on its proposed specification. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon? 

5 MR. FAIRHURST: This is Jon 

6 Fairhurst from Sharp. The earlier concerns 

7 when we were initially proposing a 3 lux 

8 measurement were that the -- of course some 

9 were concerned that zero was not 

10 representative. So they wanted something 

11 higher. And then as CEA and CLASP testing 

12 showed, there was significant viewing down at 

13 these very low lux levels and one of the 

14 arguments against testing at the low lux 

15 levels was it was difficult to measure 

16 repeatability, that the meters had a large 

17 variation and so forth. And so then the ND 

18 filter was proposed as a way to gain consensus 

19 at measuring at the low lux levels. 

20 So now I am wondering with further 

21 study is the ND filter solution something we 

22 see as helpful in that some meters we are 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 71

1 finding that are maybe unreliable down at the 

2 low lux levels or is it something that is 

3 possibly adding more variation. 

4 I think at the time we didn't have 

5 as much experience, so the ND filter was, once 

6 again, suggested as a way to gain consensus 

7 but with more information we might see that it 

8 is actually the world is a little simpler than 

9 we thought. 

10 So I don't have a position whether 

11 it should or shouldn't be in there, other than 

12 wanting to have the best technical results and 

13 the best repeatability. 

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

15 MR. DOMMU: And I would just -- 

16 let me just respond to that quickly. I mean 

17 our testing shows, as Anthony just discussed 

18 that power consumption doesn't vary in either 

19 method. So I mean I think it is certainly a 

20 reasonable comment to make that maybe we just 

21 pick one or the other. But I also think that 

22 as our testing indicated we are allowing the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 72

1 choice because, based on what we saw, the 

2 results were the same. 

3 MR. FAIRHURST: So I think it 

4 would be interesting if we could find an 

5 instance where it is problematic or where we 

6 get different meters measuring. And really 

7 maybe that is the analysis that is the most 

8 important here is with a single meter what you 

9 found is what the single accurate meter, that 

10 the ND method is acceptable. And maybe the 

11 testing that could be done to see if the ND 

12 filter method continues to be necessary is do 

13 we find that two different meters are very 

14 different at the 3 lux level. I don't know if 

15 that analysis has been done. 

16 But we don't know that that 

17 variation doesn't exist. 

18 MR. DOMMU: Sure. Thanks for the 

19 comment. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

21 MR. ROTOLO: So now we -- 

22 MR. BROOKMAN: Before we move on, 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 73

1 Bill has a comment. 

2 MR. SCHINDLER: Hi, this is Bill 

3 Schindler. Is it allowable to put up that IR 

4 ND study that you had before? I just I have a 

5 question about the data that is being 

6 presented on the IR and ND filter. At page 22 

7 that shows with and without the ND filter and 

8 is very clear that there is no effect, at 

9 least with TV 1 and TV 3. 

10 And if you just remember the 

11 number 71.6, which is what it is showing for 

12 the wattage for TV 1, I assume there is no IR 

13 filter in this situation. 

14 Now if we go to page 26, the last 

15 page, it still shows 71.6 for TV 1 but the IR 

16 filters are on. So it is like the IR filter 

17 didn't do anything but in all the other study 

18 of the IR filter, it does drop the power. 

19 So I am not sure -- maybe if it -- 

20 I don't know. That is my question. 

21 MR. ROTOLO: So our impression of 

22 this is that being at the 0 lux, or relatively 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 74

1 close to the 0 lux point, that the impact may 

2 have been minimal. 

3 MR. KLINKE: This is Kurt Klinke 

4 from Navigant Consulting. And just to 

5 elaborate on what he is saying is we basically 

6 believe that for that TV that if you are still 

7 within the below the lowest level at which the 

8 TV will have an ABC response. So it is going 

9 to have, each TV is going to have a minimum 

10 threshold of light that it needs to have in 

11 order to really kick in any increasing 

12 brightness or any actual ABC response. And so 

13 our belief here is that at 3 lux, even without 

14 an IR filter, that that is not enough light 

15 for the TV to respond. And so in this case 

16 when you add and take out the IR filter that 

17 there is still no difference. You know, when 

18 you add the IR filter, you are still reducing 

19 the light even further. So there is still no 

20 response. 

21 MR. SCHINDLER: Yes, I understand. 

22 Great. Thank you. That is kind of like gone 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 75

1 into its saturation mode on the other end. 

2 MR. KLINKE: Yes, that is correct. 

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis, go ahead. 

4 MR. DESROCHES: Louis Desroches, 

5 LBL. And one other thing, too, is the TV 1 as 

6 was shown earlier is one of the televisions 

7 where if you go back to the distance versus 

8 adjacent data they were actually relatively 

9 close to each other, which suggested this TV's 

10 ABC sensor is actually doing a good job of 

11 taking out the IR. And so whether or not you 

12 put an IR filter in front of it, it may not 

13 make that much of a difference. 

14 Whereas, if you go to TV 5 which 

15 did show quite a bit of difference between the 

16 adjacent and the distance method, suggesting 

17 that its sensor is quite susceptible to IR, 

18 there was a difference between the ND filter 

19 only versus the ND filter and IR filter. 

20 So that may explain some of the 

21 numbers that you are seeing as well, in 

22 addition to what he was saying. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 76

1 MR. SCHINDLER: Great, thank you. 

2 MR. ROTOLO: So now moving on to 

3 the definitions section. 

4 MR. DOMMU: Yes, I would just 

5 comment right now. So we are already well 

6 ahead of schedule. We weren't scheduled to 

7 get to the definitions section until 11:45. 

8 It is now 10:23. So we are about an hour and 

9 20 minutes ahead of schedule right now. 

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, so I was going 

11 to suggest we take a break. 

12 MR. DOMMU: So take a break and 

13 then we can get back to it. 

14 MR. BROOKMAN: It is, we will say 

15 10:25. And we will take a 15-minute break, 

16 which means we will resume at 10:40. 

17 You must wear this badge visible 

18 in the building. There are restrooms on both 

19 ends of the hallway. There is a coffee shop 

20 down on the ground floor just about underneath 

21 us. If you get off the elevator and hang a 

22 left, you will be there. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 77

1 Go quickly if you are going to get 

2 coffee or some other beverage. And we will 

3 resume here at 10:40. We have got a good 

4 start on the day, good content we are covering 

5 here. And we will see you back here then. 

6 (Whereupon, the foregoing meeting went off the 

7 record at 10:24 a.m. and went back 

8 on the record at 10:41 a.m.) 

9 MR. BROOKMAN: So let's resume. 

10 You didn't get a chance to introduce yourself 

11 before. Would you do so and use the 

12 microphone? 

13 MS. RADULOVIC: Sure. This is 

14 Verena Radulovic with the U.S. EPA, Project 

15 Manager for the television specification for 

16 ENERGY STAR. 

17 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Please 

18 say your first name again. 

19 MS. RADULOVIC: Verena, V-E-R-E-N20 A and the last name is Radulovic. 

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

22 MS. RADULOVIC: Yes, thanks. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 78

1 MR. BROOKMAN: I guess we are 

2 going to hear first from Jeremy. 

3 MR. DOMMU: Hi, everyone. This is 

4 Jeremy again. We are going to jump into a 

5 little bit more on the test data and 

6 statistical analysis from the testing we did 

7 as part of the round robin test report. Prior 

8 to the meeting there was a couple requests 

9 from stakeholders to provide the actual raw 

10 data of power consumption in watts that 

11 resulted from doing the round robin testing 

12 and that data is available on regulations.gov. 

13 If you actually go to the round robin test 

14 report on the docket, there is now a separate 

15 attachment that actually has the raw data if 

16 you are interested in looking at that. But I 

17 will go over that quickly with you right now. 

18 So what we did is the slides 

19 provide the power consumption results and 

20 statistical analysis round robin testing of 

21 the distance test setup only. So I want to go 

22 through some of the -- review the results of 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 79

1 only the distance because that is one we are 

2 proposing. We are not going to get into the 

3 test results of the adjacent method now. 

4 I will preface it to say that as 

5 we have heard this morning, the round robin 

6 testing was not performed using the final 

7 SNOPR test procedure. There were additional 

8 specifications incorporated into the SNOPR 

9 after reviewing the round robin test results 

10 in order to further improve reproducibility, 

11 repeatability and are representative of the 

12 test. 

13 So I wanted to preface that when 

14 we do some of this analysis I don't think you 

15 necessarily could draw conclusions on the 

16 variation of what our SNOPR is based on simply 

17 looking at the data from the round robin. 

18 Particularly, I will note what some of the 

19 differences are. The round robin testing, as 

20 Anthony talked about this morning, was not 

21 conducted at 3 lux. We didn't begin 

22 considering 3 lux until after we started doing 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 80

1 the round robin. So that is why we didn't 

2 actually do the round robin at 3 lux. 

3 As we discussed, power in on-mode 

4 with ABC enabled by default in the SNOPR is 

5 the weighted average of 3, 12, 35 and 100. 

6 But since the round robin did not test at 3 

7 lux, for the purposes of what I am going to 

8 show you, we are calculating P with TVs for 

 on

9 ABC enabled by default by taking the weighted 

10 average of 0, 12, 35, and 100. So we are 

11 using the zero power measurement instead of 

12 the 3 lux power measurement to perform this 

13 calculation. So that is one difference. 

14 And then obviously as we discussed 

15 this morning, we are proposing to use an IR/UV 

16 blocking filter in our test in the SNOPR. We 

17 did not use an IR/UV blocking filter as part 

18 of the round robin. As Anthony discussed, 

19 that came about by looking at the test results 

20 of the round robin led us to include the 

21 higher UV blocking filter into the results. 

22 And then finally, we haven't 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 81

1 gotten into it but the DOE SNOPR does provide 

2 a sampling plan, where a minimum of two units 

3 of a TV basic model must be tested for any 

4 value used for a representative rating when 

5 the representative rating is the higher of the 

6 sample mean in the upper competence limit 

7 divided by 1.05. 

8 So we will get into that later and 

9 welcome comments but what we did for the 

10 purposes of this presentation of some of this 

11 data is we calculated -- even though the 

12 sampling plan requires at least two TV basic 

13 models to be tested, so you would actually 

14 take two TVs, two different TVs that were the 

15 same model and then perform the test 

16 procedure, for the purposes of this analysis, 

17 we calculated the rep unit by taking the 

18 average of the three tests results performed 

19 on the same TV by the same lab. 

20 So in the round robin test report, 

21 you will see these box and whisker plots 

22 results in one of the appendix. And this just 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 82

1 shows, again, this is for the distance method, 

2 that this example is TV 1 where it shows the 

3 box in the middle -- the line through the box 

4 in the middle is the median. The top part of 

5 the box is the 75 percent quartile. The 

6 bottom part of the box is the 25 percent 

7 quartile. And then the whiskers represent the 

8 max and the min. 

9 So you would see this and it is a 

10 way to assess the variability of the test 

11 results from the round robin. And you could -

12 - I am not going to go through every TV now. 

13 They are all on these slides but they are also 

14 available on the round robin test report. 

15 Now I know this might be a little 

16 bit hard for people to see but this is the 

17 actual raw data and all of this is available 

18 on regulations.gov. So as Anthony explained, 

19 there were four different labs who performed 

20 the test procedure three times each at eight 

21 different illumination points using both test 

22 methods. Obviously, we are just focusing here 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 83

1 on the distance test method. So you could 

2 actually see what the raw results of the round 

3 robin testing are. It is all up here in this 

4 top left part of this table. 

5 And then on the bottom part, for 

6 each of those lux levels of 0, 10, 12, 35, 50, 

7 75, 100, 300, we calculated of the 12 that 

8 were reported the median, the mean, the 

9 standard deviation, the coefficient of 

10 variation, the max value, the min value, the 

11 percent difference between min and max. 

12 So you will see that here. And 

13 you could look at this to kind of assess the 

14 variability that we observed in the round 

15 robin testing. 

16 What I also did as I kind of 

17 explained earlier, this P , so this is the 

 on

18 weighted average of 0, 12, 35, and 100 for 

19 each lab. So you could see this testing 

20 result well. 

21 So then, as I explained, we took 

22 the mean of Pon from each lab. So like for 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 84

1 lab A, test 1, 2, 3 with a mean of Pon, the 

2 upper competence limit, then the 

3 representative rating would be the higher of 

4 the mean and the upper competence limit. So 

5 we calculated those well. 

6 And I think really the key values 

7 to look at on this analysis are right down 

8 here on the bottom right, where if you use the 

9 12 calculations of power in on-mode, you could 

10 see that the median we 127.74, the mean was 

11 129.43. So standard deviation is 4.23. So 

12 the coefficient of variation, which is a good 

13 way to assess it, was 3.27 percent. That is 

14 the standard deviation of 4.23 divided by the 

15 mean of 129.43. The max value was 137 for 

16 this TV and the min value was 124. And so 

17 then you could see the percent difference 

18 between min and max. 

19 And then we basically did the same 

20 thing using the representative rating of power 

21 consumption. So all of this is available on 

22 the docket. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 85

1 Then we go through and it is the 

2 same thing for each TV. We have the distance 

3 method, the whisker, the box and whisker, and 

4 the raw data on statistical analysis as I just 

5 walked through. 

6 So you could review -- I don't 

7 think it really makes sense to try to focus on 

8 all of this right now. But I will bring up 

9 this final slide, which is kind of the summary 

10 statistical analysis. 

11 So on the top up here, this is the 

12 mean, medium, standard deviation, coefficient 

13 of variation, max, min, and percent difference 

14 for the power in on-mode. So of the 12 power 

15 in on-mode calculations of the 12 tests, 3 by 

16 each of the 4 different labs, you could see 

17 the statistics. And then the bottom part here 

18 is essentially the same thing but instead of 

19 using the 12 different results, we just use 

20 the 4 different records and ratings. 

21 So I think looking at the 

22 coefficient of variation for Pon, it ranged 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 86

1 anywhere for the distance method from 1 

2 percent to 3.27 percent. The representative 

3 rating ranged from a coefficient of variation 

4 of 0.9 to 3.3, 3.31 and then the percent 

5 differences between min and max values for Pon 

6 were from 3 to 9, approximately, percent and 

7 the min max differences for the rep rating 

8 were lower, ranging from 1.74 percent to the 

9 highest one of 6.95 percent. 

10 So that is available if you want 

11 to look at it. I think it does show that 

12 there is very limited variability in the round 

13 robin testing. Again, to preface this, this 

14 was not conducted using the IR/UV blocking 

15 filter; as we discussed, that should reduce 

16 variability even more. 

17 Any questions on this before we 

18 move forward? 

19 Okay. Well then with that, we 

20 will move back into the definitions section of 

21 the public meeting. 

22 MR. BROOKMAN: That was helpful. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 87

1 That was good, yes. 

2 Okay, back to Anthony. 

3 MR. ROTOLO: Okay, so to summarize 

4 the proposals for a definitions section, we 

5 have updated several definitions. We first 

6 would like to start by just going over a high 

7 level of all these updates. 

8 For the definition for a 

9 television set, this was updated from the NOPR 

10 to help clarify the scope. Some stakeholders 

11 expressed some confusion around language of 

12 “manufactured with”. This has been updated to 

13 provide clarification. And we will discuss 

14 this in greater detail in this section. 

15 Definitions for special functions 

16 and additional functions, these definitions 

17 have been incorporated by reference in today's 

18 SNOPR. In the NOPR, there was a definition 

19 for additional functions but to harmonize with 

20 IEC 62087, this definition has been 

21 incorporated by reference. Special functions 

22 has been added as a new definition. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 88

1 For dark room conditions, we have 

2 added additional clarification. There were 

3 comments that in the NOPR, the requirement 

4 surrounding this may be insufficient. So we 

5 performed testing which evaluated our 

6 specifications and we determined that it [dark 

7 room conditions] had a sufficient tolerance. 

8 One statement that I believe Jon made was that 

9 the desk which the TV would sit on had to be -

10 - couldn't protrude out so that any possible 

11 reflection would be interpreted by the ABC 

12 sensor. 

13 In our testing we saw a similar 

14 situation which we wanted to specify that the 

15 ABC sensor needed to be at least two feet away 

16 from any room surface. And by that we meant 

17 you can't place a TV in a corner of room where 

18 the ABC sensor is possibly susceptible to any 

19 reflection of wall surfaces. So our 

20 clarification to dark room is that it must be 

21 at least two feet away from any room surface. 

22 Input connections, we have added 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 89

1 definitions for this just to harmonize with 

2 other rulemakings. And we have used industry 

3 standards to create those definitions. 

4 And then finally preset, brightest 

5 selectable and default picture setting, all of 

6 these we have added definitions for all of 

7 these and we will discuss those in greater 

8 detail in this section as well. 

9 And so the reason those, in 

10 addition to television sets are highlighted, 

11 is because we are only discussing those 

12 updates. Special functions, additional 

13 functions, dark room and input connections 

14 will not be discussed but we are open to any 

15 discussion if anyone would like to comment on 

16 those. We can talk about those later or if 

17 someone would like to comment now. 

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

19 MR. FAIRHURST: Regarding the 

20 details of the television set definition, 

21 there are -- well I guess before I get into 

22 that, let me mention that in IEC and CEA when 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 90

1 we make definitions, we have a little bit of a 

2 different philosophy. And in fact in IEC 

3 there are directives that make the definitions 

4 very simple. So there may not be a one-to-one 

5 correspondence between what DOE does and what 

6 IEC does. But for instance in IEC we are not 

7 allowed to have a verb. There is no period at 

8 the end, no shall statements. So we have 

9 minimized the normative effect of the 

10 definitions. So the definitions are really 

11 just for clarification and understanding. 

12 So for instance for the DOE 

13 specification of a television set, it is 15 

14 inches or larger. Well, that is not actually 

15 true. You can have a TV that is smaller than 

16 15 inches but it is acceptable that the DOE's 

17 scope for televisions is 15 inches and larger. 

18 So IEC would tend to do things 

19 differently where we would say in the scope 

20 statement it would have to be 15 inches or 

21 larger. DOE has done things a little bit 

22 differently in saying the scope as it covers 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 91

1 televisions, and then it defines televisions 

2 maybe more tightly than televisions are known 

3 to be. That is mainly the style difference. 

4 And so that is an expected difference that we 

5 might have just because of style. 

6 For the content, I think the 15-

7 inch or larger scope is just fine. I think 

8 that tends to eliminate things like tablets 

9 and things like that. So that seems very 

10 reasonable to do. 

11 There is one area that has been 

12 put into the recent IEC draft that might be of 

13 interest to DOE having to do with batteries. 

14 So we have defined in the latest draft 

15 auxiliary batteries, which are batteries that 

16 would maintain let's say a clock or allow the 

17 IR to be detected or something like this. 

18 From a main battery, a main battery would 

19 actually power the television for its normal 

20 use to make sound and picture. 

21 And so what we have done in our 

22 scope we said that you can measure the power 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 92

1 of a TV with a main battery but it must be 

2 removable and it must be removed during the 

3 test. You don't have to remove auxiliary 

4 batteries. Clearly, we wouldn't want to do 

5 that. 

6 The reason is that once we have a 

7 main battery in the television set, you don't 

8 know if the power or the TV is coming from the 

9 main battery. If you are charging the main 

10 battery, it is not really determinable. 

11 So for the IEC scope we said if 

12 you can't remove the main battery, then it is 

13 out of scope. And if you can remove the main 

14 battery, then do so when you do the test, so 

15 that we eliminate this charging/discharging 

16 variability. 

17 We discussed in the IEC meeting 

18 about are there ways to test televisions with 

19 main batteries and we decided it was just too 

20 complex. So we decided to punt. 

21 Anyway, that concludes my 

22 discussion on definitions, including the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 93

1 television set definition. 

2 MR. DOMMU: That was very helpful. 

3 Thanks. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: So, go ahead. 

5 MR. ROTOLO: So I will just go 

6 into a bit more detail on our proposed update 

7 for the definition for televisions. 

8 So in the NOPR, DOE proposed that 

9 a television is a product that is manufactured 

10 with a TV tuner, in addition to being 

11 primarily powered by mains, having a diagonal 

12 screen size of 15 inches or greater. 

13 And so this specific portion is 

14 what some stakeholders expressed some 

15 confusion surrounding. In the SNOPR today we 

16 are proposing to remove that section and that 

17 a TV is defined as a product which contains an 

18 internal TV tuner encased in a single housing 

19 of the unit. So the reason for this language 

20 in the NOPR was that it was designed to cover 

21 products which had an internal or external TV 

22 tuner. In the SNOPR we are now only including 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 94

1 products which have a TV tuner internal to the 

2 product. 

3 So at this time, we would like to 

4 seek comment from interested parties on this 

5 updated definition of television set. 

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Bijit. 

7 MR. KUNDU: A question for the 

8 Department. Is the Department aware of TVs 

9 that might be shipped or TVs that are marketed 

10 -- or units that are marketed as TVs that do 

11 not contain a tuner? 

12 MR. ROTOLO: So this kind of went 

13 into the background of our original 

14 definition. At the time of the proposed 

15 definition, we were not aware of a television 

16 or a product marketed as a television which 

17 included a separate external tuner. I think 

18 the reason for this incorporation was we were 

19 aware of the product itself, which was an 

20 external tuner. It offered the possibility of 

21 this, although we never specifically saw this. 

22 It also brings up the issue of, at what point 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 95

1 is it considered to be manufactured. 

2 In the NOPR, we referenced, I 

3 believe it was a definition by EPCA which 

4 defines the term manufactured. So you could 

5 have a retailer which receives a product that 

6 does not have a TV tuner but has an external 

7 TV tuner. When they bundle the two, are they 

8 now the manufacturer? This was part of the 

9 confusion that some stakeholders had in the 

10 NOPR. 

11 And just to clarify, for the 

12 SNOPR, we were not aware of such a product. 

13 And, therefore, this led us to remove this 

14 from the definition. So now they [TV tuners] 

15 are only encased in a single housing in this 

16 product. 

17 MR. KUNDU: Thanks but just to be 

18 clear, I guess not only a unit that is shipped 

19 with an external tuner but just a unit that 

20 doesn't come with any tuner either, internal 

21 or external, that could be connected to a set22 top box that does have a tuner. I'm just 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 96

1 curious if the Department knows of products 

2 like that. 

3 MR. DOMMU: This is Jeremy. You 

4 are getting into the distinguishment between a 

5 display and a television at that point, I feel 

6 like. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Bill. 

8 MR. SCHINDLER: This is Bill 

9 Schindler. Didn't the FCC, when we were 

10 converting to HD back 8 years ago or whenever 

11 it was, didn't they say that any TV bigger 

12 than 21 inches or something sold in America 

13 had to have a tuner? 

14 MR. DOMMU: I believe that as 

15 well. 

16 MR. SCHINDLER: In order to be 

17 called a TV, it had to have a tuner. You 

18 know, it was a long time ago but I think that 

19 is true. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: I see Louis is 

21 ready. 

22 MR. DESROCHES: Yes, Louis. Yes, 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 97

1 there is an All Channel Receiver Act which 

2 specifies that so if it is sold, if it is 

3 marketed as a television, it has to have a 

4 tuner in it. 

5 MR. SCHINDLER: Yes, I think we 

6 are covered okay, then. 

7 MR. DESROCHES: Yes, which is 

8 another reason why we went back to that 

9 definition. 

10 MR. SCHINDLER: But I think it had 

11 to be above a certain size, too, if I remember 

12 correctly. 

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

14 Jon. 

15 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, this is Jon 

16 Fairhurst from Sharp. Yes, that is the FCC 

17 Tuner Mandate if you want to do a search on 

18 the web, that should be able to find it. 

19 In addition in the early days 

20 tuners were not integrated into chips. They 

21 could be relatively expensive. So Sharp 

22 manufactured some TVs with an external box 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 98

1 early on. The market had some TV monitor 

2 products. These tended to cause confusion for 

3 consumers. And since then, we have had the 

4 FCC mandate. 

5 Today the tuner components tend to 

6 highly integrated into chips that are 

7 available in the marketplace. And so between 

8 eliminating confusion for the consumer, the 

9 FCC Act and then also the available chip sets, 

10 I think it is unlikely. 

11 However, some number of years in 

12 the future, there is talk about ultra-high 

13 definition. So of course this is not going to 

14 happen within the next three to five years but 

15 could happen later. That may introduce new 

16 market dynamics but DOE will have time to 

17 respond to that. 

18 MR. BROOKMAN: And that wouldn't 

19 be an internal tuner? 

20 MR. FAIRHURST: It would be -- 

21 there would be some new rules. This would not 

22 be an ATSC tuner. This would be some new ATSC 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 99

1 -- 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: I am trying to 

3 elicit comments on the salience of this 

4 particular -- these words here. 

5 MR. FAIRHURST: So there is no 

6 problem with the salience of these words. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

8 Yes, Bill, please. 

9 MR. SCHINDLER: I have a problem 

10 of the salience of one word. 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Good. 

12 MR. SCHINDLER: It is the word 

13 primarily. I would say that should be only by 

14 mains power for providing sound and picture. 

15 And that would take off the table any battery 

16 operated devices, which I think is the 

17 intention of this ruling is to be primarily 

18 mains power. I would just say only by mains 

19 power for providing sound and picture. That 

20 allows you to have a small auxiliary battery 

21 to keep alive whatever status functions you 

22 need but not for providing your sound and 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 100

1 picture. 

2 Because otherwise, you have to get 

3 into, like Jon was saying, how do you test 

4 with the battery? Is it fully charged or does 

5 it have to come out? And that is just 

6 muddying the waters, I think. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Good. Other 

8 comments here before we move on? 

9 Bijit. 

10 MR. KUNDU: Well I am curious. 

11 This may be a question more for Jon Fairhurst 

12 regarding the CEA-2037 document. It notes a 

13 tuner/receiver. And I am just curious what 

14 the differences are because it looks like the 

15 DOE test procedure just has tuner. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

17 MR. FAIRHURST: There is no 

18 fundamental difference. In CEA we assume that 

19 a receiver is an ATSC receiver, which would 

20 mean that it is a television with a tuner. 

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

22 So we are moving on. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 101

1 MR. ROTOLO: So now we would like 

2 discuss the updates to the picture setting 

3 definitions. 

4 In the NOPR, DOE proposed testing 

5 luminance in the home and retail picture 

6 setting. So first we have to define these 

7 terms. The home picture setting is defined in 

8 the NOPR as a picture setting recommended by 

9 the manufacturer from the forced menu or as 

10 the as shipped picture setting. The retail 

11 picture setting was defined as the picture 

12 setting in which it produced the highest 

13 screen luminance. 

14 There was some confusion which 

15 arose with retail picture setting, many 

16 stakeholders commented that the retail picture 

17 setting isn't in all cases the brightest 

18 picture setting. This is slightly where the 

19 distinction is between our intention, which 

20 can be seen in the figure below that you would 

21 select either the home picture setting or 

22 retail picture setting from the forced menu 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 102

1 and the definition itself for retail picture 

2 setting which was commented that is not always 

3 the picture setting with the highest 

4 luminance. 

5 So based on these comments, DOE 

6 proposed defining the preset picture setting 

7 as a means of helping to clarify the other 

8 picture settings. DOE defines preset pictures 

9 setting as the picture setting which is 

10 preprogrammed by the manufacturer, can be 

11 found within the home menu from the initial 

12 forced menu, and has predetermined parameters, 

13 such as brightness, contrast, color, and 

14 sharpness. 

15 So this figure shows an example of 

16 what some possible preset picture settings 

17 would be and how they were found within the TV 

18 setting structures. 

19 Based on the addition of a 

20 definition for preset picture setting, DOE is 

21 proposing to remove the definition for retail 

22 picture setting and add the definition for 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 103

1 brightest selectable preset picture setting. 

2 The proposed definition is a 

3 picture setting which can be found within the 

4 home menu and produces the highest luminance. 

5 So from there, the definition for 

6 home picture setting was also reevaluated. 

7 DOE is proposing to remove the definition for 

8 home picture setting and add the definition 

9 for default picture setting, which is proposed 

10 as the picture setting which can be found 

11 within the home menu, is entered into 

12 immediately following the home menu selection 

13 and if a forced menu is not available, the 

14 default picture setting is the picture setting 

15 which the TV enters into as shipped. 

16 This figure shows the proposed 

17 picture setting structure in the SNOPR. Both 

18 the default picture setting and the brightest 

19 selectable preset picture setting are found 

20 within the home menu and it can also be seen 

21 that the retail menu is not tested in this 

22 test procedure. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 104

1 So at this time, DOE requests 

2 comments on the addition or the new 

3 definitions for preset picture setting, 

4 brightest selectable preset picture setting, 

5 and default picture setting. 

6 DOE also requests comments on the 

7 removal of the home and retail picture 

8 setting. 

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Verena. 

10 MS. RADULOVIC: Hi, this is Verena 

11 Radulovic from EPA. And thanks, guys. This 

12 is very helpful. 

13 And looking at it from the 

14 perspective of the ENERGY STAR program and how 

15 we address these kinds of definitions, I do 

16 think it is very helpful to have this kind of 

17 a tree or a breakdown. And one of the things 

18 that I think is really valuable is this idea 

19 of the preset picture settings. It is 

20 something that we encountered in our 

21 development of version 6.0. 

22 The only thing I would add, I 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 105

1 think, is when you are not testing the retail 

2 picture setting, it might be helpful to have 

3 that definition in there anyway or at the very 

4 least from our programmatic perspective, it is 

5 helpful, even though it is not tested, the way 

6 that people come to or sort of when we -- we 

7 acknowledge that in the case of when retailers 

8 do want to showcase their products in stores, 

9 they will have it in a setting that it is just 

10 helpful to know what that is. So it might be 

11 good to have just that definition there, even 

12 though it is not tested. And we found that in 

13 some cases the retail setting is the same as 

14 the brightest pre-selectable but not always. 

15 So I appreciate the way that it is 

16 laid out here and I do think -- the only 

17 comment that I have would be maybe to have an 

18 additional definition parked so that people 

19 can understand what it is in retail but that 

20 it can be but it is not necessarily the 

21 brightest selectable preset. And again, I 

22 think it is helpful when we look within the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 106

1 home, I don't know if I want to call it 

2 picture setting, it is not quite a mode, sort 

3 of home -- what would you say -- home 

4 settings, within that there is the default 

5 preset which is in the case of energy star 

6 what we would call the home picture setting. 

7 In previous versions, before you had things 

8 like vivid or sports or cinema or things like 

9 that. 

10 So it is just adding a layer of 

11 complexity but I appreciate what DOE has 

12 proposed. 

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Jon? 

14 MR. FAIRHURST: This is Jon 

15 Fairhurst of Sharp. 

16 I have some real concerns about 

17 this in terms of measuring the brightness in 

18 the brightest home setting, rather than in the 

19 retail mode. 

20 So as I mentioned, I chair a group 

21 in the IEC so I am concerned about keeping 

22 things internationally harmonized and this 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 107

1 would be at odds with what we are doing 

2 internationally. 

3 There are also some unintended 

4 consequences in that this doesn't really meet 

5 the initial goal of why we are measuring 

6 brightness in the first place. So the 

7 original goal, as I understand it, and Verena 

8 can correct me if I am not right on, not spot 

9 on, but the goal was that when the consumer 

10 sees the television at retail, they will 

11 perceive a certain brightness and then they 

12 will take that television home and the reason 

13 that we measured retail and the home default 

14 brightness and made a 65 percent maximum ratio 

15 between the two was to ensure that the 

16 consumer didn't get home and find a very 

17 different experience and then be disappointed 

18 with the brightness, turn the brightness up, 

19 and then have a different power rating in 

20 their house than is on the label. 

21 So that is my understanding of why 

22 this was done in the first place. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 108

1 Now industry actually opposed this 

2 requirement. Industry said well we want to 

3 make sure that yes we do want to have people 

4 have reasonably bright televisions in the home 

5 that we believe is happening today. If your 

6 television isn't bright, you will get a black 

7 eye and the market feedback will kind of fix 

8 things and also there are difficulties in 

9 measured brightness versus perceived 

10 brightness. 

11 But what I see here is the 

12 possibility for some unintended consequences. 

13 So for instance, this is kind of a worst case 

14 situation, I don't know that any manufacturer 

15 would do this but this would be a potential. 

16 A manufacturer makes a 1,000 nits television. 

17 At retail it is 1,000 nits. It is just 

18 screaming. It is the brightest TV on the 

19 wall. 

20 Someone purchases this television, 

21 brings it home, plugs it in, and they get 65 

22 nits and that is how the power is measured. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 109

1 So it is very power efficient but it is -- 

2 MS. RADULOVIC: Was that 650 or 

3 65? 

4 MR. FAIRHURST: Sixty-five. So it 

5 is extremely dim. I am not going to say 

6 whether or not this is too dim but much, much 

7 dimmer than what they experienced at retail. 

8 And then they say well this isn't what I saw 

9 at the store and they flip through the presets 

10 in home mode and they get now the highest 

11 allowable preset in home mode because of the 

12 65 percent requirement would be 100 nits. So 

13 it is 1,000 nits at retail, 100 nits at the 

14 highest at home and 65 nits is out of the box 

15 at home. So that would be a very odd thing. 

16 And the other thing is the manufacturer would 

17 say on the specification 1,000 nits. This TV 

18 is capable of 1,000 nits. Of course, not at 

19 home mode, only at retail mode. 

20 MS. RADULOVIC: But it would 

21 still, but in the case of ENERGY STAR, it 

22 would still have to -- 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 110

1 MR. BROOKMAN: Verena. 

2 MS. RADULOVIC: Sorry. This is 

3 Verena Radulovic. In the case of ENERGY STAR, 

4 if it is 1,000 nits for the retail, it would 

5 have to be 65 percent of that, so it would 

6 still be pretty bright. 

7 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, that is 

8 right. And this depends on if EPA then makes 

9 the ratio between not what they are doing here 

10 between home mode and retail but DOE is saying 

11 don't measure retail, measure the brightest in 

12 home model. 

13 MS. RADULOVIC: Oh, okay. 

14 MR. FAIRHURST: So there is this 

15 disconnect between the intent and what EPA is 

16 doing and what DOE is recommending to actually 

17 test. 

18 I do see a -- 

19 MS. RADULOVIC: Sorry. The only 

20 time where that wouldn't be an issue is when 

21 it is currently retail and then brightest 

22 selectable preset picture is synonymous if it 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 111

1 is the same. Whereas, here I think what Jon 

2 is saying is that there is an opportunity for 

3 retail to be different. If it is not measured 

4 then brightest selectable preset picture 

5 setting at home could actually be much dimmer 

6 than what you see in the store. 

7 MR. FAIRHURST: Exactly. 

8 MS. RADULOVIC: Okay. All right. 

9 MR. FAIRHURST: So I struggled for 

10 a while to figure out how to solve this 

11 problem because I know that DOE was concerned 

12 that the difficulty is that you do all this 

13 testing in home mode and then there is no way 

14 to get back to retail mode. I think that is 

15 what prompted this. 

16 And so a possible solution would 

17 be for DOE to say to test in retail mode when 

18 possible. In other words, if the retail mode 

19 is now accessible, test the luminance not in 

20 the brightest selectable mode in home but in 

21 retail. And for some televisions it may be 

22 impossible and it is not tested. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 112

1 EPA, on the other hand could, or 

2 in addition, could set a performance 

3 requirement that says the television must be 

4 testable in retail mode after the fact. And 

5 then this DOE kind of recommended test of 

6 measuring the brightness in retail mode would 

7 be done as a requirement by EPA. 

8 So it is a way where, yes, if you 

9 don't want the TV to be ENERGY STAR rated, 

10 then you wouldn't have to make it testable in 

11 retail mode. But if you did, then you would 

12 need to provide that capability that the reset 

13 is there to get back into retail mode. 

14 Anyway, it is a simple solution 

15 that might make everyone happy. The other 

16 solution that would make manufacturers happy, 

17 of course, is well just don't test the 

18 luminance but I don't know that that would be 

19 acceptable to all. 

20 But I do see this current proposal 

21 as not solving either situation. It doesn't 

22 eliminate it, which would make the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 113

1 manufacturers happy. And it doesn't compare 

2 it to retail mode, which would make EPA and 

3 maybe some of the advocates happy. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie Stephens. 

5 MR. STEPHENS: On a follow-up to 

6 Jon. Jon, you had mentioned international 

7 harmonization in your introductory part of the 

8 question. Is there an international 

9 harmonization issue here as well? 

10 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes. Currently, 

11 IEC 62087 3.0 doesn't include this in the 

12 test; 4.0, the current draft does include 

13 luminance testing. 

14 And internationally, it is 

15 measured in Australia, Europe, and Canada, and 

16 maybe some other locations as well. That is 

17 not done in the test procedure today but by 

18 government regulation. And in each case, it 

19 is retail mode not the brightest selectable 

20 mode in the home mode selection. 

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Verena. 

22 MS. RADULOVIC: What about if 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 114

1 another idea is what if you had kind of an 

2 additional definition for retail and well you 

3 could say something like if retail is not the 

4 same thing as brightest selectable preset 

5 picture setting, then you could sort of have 

6 some caveat for how you -- where the 65 

7 percent ratio is, whether you do it for retail 

8 or whether you do it for the brightest 

9 selectable preset picture setting. And this 

10 is really more from a programmatic 

11 implementation but I think it is helpful to 

12 sort of walk through these sort of scenarios 

13 because once the definitions are set, ENERGY 

14 STAR really tries to harmonize. We want to 

15 harmonize and we are really going with 

16 whatever DOE does. And so it is important 

17 that this is something that can then be 

18 translated into a program. 

19 So in other words, could you have 

20 retail and brightest selectable preset mean 

21 the same thing and if they don't, then you are 

22 in the situation here where brightest 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 115

1 selectable preset picture might be retail. It 

2 might not be. 

3 And then if it is not, then you 

4 test according to the most -- 65 percent of 

5 the brightest. 

6 MR. DOMMU: This is Jeremy. One 

7 other thing to consider is we are having -- we 

8 are proposing to have an output of the SNOPR, 

9 which is the luminance ratio, which would be 

10 calculated as the default picture setting, 

11 divided by the brightest selectable preset 

12 picture setting. So that ratio is going to 

13 be, as proposed, an output of the test 

14 procedure. 

15 MS. RADULOVIC: But just sort of 

16 to Jon's point, if it is brightest selectable 

17 in the home, that might be a different -- 

18 MR. DOMMU: I definitely 

19 acknowledge that point and hear that comment. 

20 MS. RADULOVIC: Okay. 

21 MR. DOMMU: I think there are a 

22 couple of good solutions that you guys were 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 116

1 both passing around. So we will certainly 

2 give some more thought to this. 

3 Do stakeholders want us to 

4 continue to test luminance in retail mode? It 

5 sounds like from what I am hearing that that 

6 is something that would be helpful. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Bijit? 

8 MR. KUNDU: Yes, I mean at least 

9 from my perspective, I think if a consumer can 

10 select -- if a TV can be in that mode in the 

11 home, then yes, I would say it should be 

12 tested. So even if it is a retail option that 

13 a consumer can go to somehow either upon first 

14 set up or scrolling back, then yes. 

15 MR. DOMMU: Okay. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeremy, there is a 

17 question on the table and others may wish to 

18 respond. Christopher? 

19 MR. WOLD: This is Chris Wold from 

20 CLASP. I just wanted to add that we had one 

21 of our consultants, Keith Jones, look into the 

22 harmonization aspect of it. And I think it 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 117

1 his understanding that Australia actually has 

2 changed it to the proposed definition change 

3 that DOE is making. And I think also he said 

4 that it looks like Europe may have the same 

5 change as well and Australia may have this 

6 newer definition. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Verena. 

8 MS. RADULOVIC: For those 

9 manufacturers in the room, I am just wondering 

10 if you have any feedback from the last couple 

11 of years where consumers have had this choice, 

12 I think since ENERGY STAR version 4 or version 

13 5, where they have had this choice between 

14 home and retail. And from a consumer 

15 standpoint, it is really easy. In lay terms 

16 they can just see home or retail. 

17 Have the manufacturers gotten any 

18 feedback over the last couple of years as to 

19 whether or not that is a feature that 

20 consumers go to or whether or not that is 

21 something you might continue to do in the 

22 future? Because a lot of what is happening 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 118

1 here, these definitions are sort of born out 

2 of a programmatic implementation where ENERGY 

3 STAR acknowledged that you had a different 

4 brightness that was optimized for in-store 

5 viewing and then optimized from the home. And 

6 I am just wondering if that is something that 

7 is going to continue or if that is something 

8 where you are going to start to see a consumer 

9 going to the TV and saying brightest possible 

10 and then like for your living room. Because 

11 that is part of what I think we are wrestling 

12 with here is that you have got this already in 

13 place. 

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie Stephens. 

15 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

16 There is another concern that we have and I 

17 will be honest, we don't have any data yet 

18 because we have only just started to look into 

19 this but we are thinking that there is an 

20 awful lot of televisions that are used in 

21 public places where retail mode, quite 

22 frankly, is not only preferred but in some 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 119

1 cases, due to the brightness levels of the 

2 ambient conditions, almost necessary to make 

3 whatever is on the thing attractive, I guess 

4 you could say. 

5 Places like retail settings and 

6 bars and restaurants and some things where 

7 sometimes ambient light levels are quite high, 

8 especially in the vicinity of the TV. And we 

9 think that there may be a considerable 

10 opportunity for folks to just select retail 

11 because in that commercial setting, that is 

12 what you need to get the content on the 

13 television to display brightly enough to be 

14 noticeable. 

15 And so again, I don't have any 

16 data on this yet because we are not sure 

17 sometimes whether what we are looking at is a 

18 display or a TV. But we think there is enough 

19 instances potentially where we may really want 

20 to know what the energy consumption of these 

21 things is in a retail mode because we may find 

22 enough stuff out there in the marketplace. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 120

1 We are just getting ready to start 

2 up our commercial survey and start measuring 

3 some of these things. So we will see what we 

4 find when we get out there but we are 

5 concerned a little bit that there will be 

6 settings out there where the retail mode is 

7 what they want. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis? Anthony. 

9 MR. ROTOLO: Just one comment. 

10 Some stuff that we have noticed in testing is 

11 that when the retail mode is selected, 

12 oftentimes we have seen tickers displayed on 

13 the bottom of the TV, on the side of the TV, 

14 and periodically these will pop up to the full 

15 screen. For one, it makes it difficult to, 

16 actually nearly impossible to determine the 

17 luminance value. It will display content at 

18 the same time but as part of this ticker 

19 function or it is often called demos, it will 

20 obstruct the luminance measurement. 

21 So it makes it one, difficult to 

22 test and then two, oftentimes you are 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 121

1 commenting that in a real world situation, it 

2 is not highly desirable to have your content 

3 frequently interrupted by more or less 

4 displayed kind of showcasing the TV's 

5 functions. 

6 And then one other, I guess kind 

7 of add-on was that in the NOPR we received 

8 comment from some manufacturers saying that 

9 this luminance ratio shouldn't be calculated 

10 at all. They had never received comments 

11 saying that their TVs they had an issue being 

12 too dim. 

13 So in the event that they were to 

14 have a TV that retailed one brightness level 

15 and then was only capable of another, I think 

16 it is the potential to kind of prompt this 

17 issue, which they say they have never 

18 encountered. 

19 So those are just some side notes 

20 that I made. 

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Louis. 

22 MR. DESROCHES: I was going to 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 122

1 make the same comment that Anthony just made 

2 about the ticker demo, which is another reason 

3 why the proposed luminance testing is at the 

4 brightest selectable in the home. 

5 MR. BROOKMAN: One of our web 

6 participants wants to join us. He has raised 

7 his hand. David Maciel, if I pronounced that 

8 correctly. David, speak clearly and loudly 

9 and hopefully we will hear you. 

10 MR. MACIEL: Can you hear me now? 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, we can. 

12 MR. MACIEL: This is David from 

13 Sony Electronics. 

14 I basically had a question about 

15 that. We have the same concern that Jon 

16 Fairhurst just explained. And quite honestly, 

17 we believe that there isn't sufficient data at 

18 the moment to continue to measure luminance or 

19 power consumption at the retail mode. 

20 But the one question that I had 

21 and it may be more towards the member from 

22 CLASP that is in this meeting, is there any 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 123

1 data to support that some consumers are 

2 switching to the retail mode? And one other 

3 comment that I have in regards to that is that 

4 back when this issue was first raised in 

5 discussions with ENERGY STAR, I made a request 

6 to our service department to see if it was 

7 possible to collect this kind of data. 

8 And for the past year, we have 

9 only received one inquiry about one consumer 

10 switching from home mode to retail mode. So 

11 he mentions, I believe, that in essence it is 

12 not really necessary to measure the retail 

13 mode but I do understand the consequences of 

14 not doing it because of harmonization and 

15 other things and because of what is required 

16 from ENERGY STAR. 

17 And the last comment that I have 

18 is that in regards to the televisions that are 

19 used in public spaces, I wonder what 

20 percentage of those units composed the entire 

21 population of TVs on the market. I would 

22 assume that it is relative small. And so, in 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 124

1 essence, is it really important to continue to 

2 measure energy in luminance at the retail 

3 mode? 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Chris, you 

5 are next in the queue. 

6 MR. WOLD: I would just also ask 

7 the question -- this is Chris from CLASP -- 

8 when we did our data collection, we did not 

9 measure or look at what mode the televisions 

10 were in. We just measured the background 

11 lighting levels. So we don't have any 

12 information on what mode those televisions 

13 were viewed in when we collected our data. 

14 I did have one kind of question 

15 though is that in terms of looking at the 

16 menu, is the way that it is worded, it says 

17 home selectable menu, is it possible that a 

18 manufacturer could create a category that says 

19 home and then has different viewing levels, 

20 and then retail and has different lighting 

21 viewing levels? I'm just not sure what it 

22 means in terms of the language is that 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 125

1 whatever level that the consumer has access to 

2 or whatever lighting level they can switch to, 

3 that is what you are suggesting it gets 

4 measured in, not that there is like a category 

5 called home and then they can select a 

6 lighting level within that category. 

7 MR. DOMMU: Yes, this is Jeremy. 

8 I mean the intent is that for a television 

9 that has a forced menu that pops up that 

10 prompts the consumer to either select or home 

11 or retail that they select home. And then 

12 within that home, after they have selected 

13 home, the brightest selectable preset picture 

14 setting and the default picture setting would 

15 be the ones that luminance is measured at. 

16 MR. ROTOLO: Some of the -- just a 

17 little bit of background on the forced menu 

18 itself, the forced menu kind of originally 

19 arose from a specification in ENERGY STAR, 

20 which kind of specified that it had to have 

21 these two options and that is why we see it in 

22 so many TVs. Not that they have to do it but 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 126

1 it is a specification for ENERGY STAR. 

2 And I would just like to also 

3 comment that the default picture setting, 

4 which is the picture setting which we are only 

5 measuring power in, we are not proposing to 

6 measure the power consumption in the brightest 

7 selectable picture setting. This is only 

8 measured -- the luminance is only measured in 

9 this setting for the sake of producing 

10 luminance ratio. 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Verena. 

12 MS. RADULOVIC: And so I think it 

13 is interesting because when you have for 

14 anything for DOE's purposes or just for 

15 reporting, if you are just testing the on-mode 

16 power in the default picture setting, in the 

17 default and home, that is one thing. When you 

18 are trying to, from an ENERGY STAR 

19 perspective, from an energy efficiency 

20 performance levels in a voluntary program, 

21 then you need to make sure that the default is 

22 within a certain ratio to the brightest so 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 127

1 that you can, I guess, compare -- yes, so that 

2 you can make sure that you are getting at 

3 least a certain percentage of the brightest 

4 for what you are measuring. 

5 So I think from our perspective, I 

6 like the levels of definitions because we sort 

7 of, we are seeing a lot more nuances and a lot 

8 more details in what kind of settings are 

9 available to the consumers. And I think it is 

10 valuable to have this level of detail and 

11 these different definitions. 

12 I would advocate in having an 

13 additional definition for retail so a program 

14 like ENERGY STAR can use that when we are 

15 setting ratios or we can have more flexibility 

16 in understanding what the differences between 

17 retail and brightest, pre-selectable, and 

18 home. 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Chris. 

20 MR. DOMMU: Could I just jump in 

21 for one second? 

22 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeremy, please. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 128

1 MR. DOMMU: Just to clarify right 

2 now we are not proposing to add a definition 

3 for home or retail within the SNOPR. We do 

4 have these new definitions for default picture 

5 setting and brightest selectable preset 

6 picture settings. 

7 So from your standpoint you are 

8 requesting that we add those back in. And to 

9 follow up on that, would it also be helpful to 

10 add in a definition of forced menu? 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Verena. 

12 MS. RADULOVIC: I think from the 

13 ENERGY STAR perspective, yes, so long as TVs 

14 are designed the way they are. I guess if DOE 

15 is silent on that, then we would probably want 

16 to determine whether or not ENERGY STAR would 

17 then have additional flexibility to add those 

18 in if it is not in the -- you know as part of 

19 a federal definition. 

20 So I guess I could see -- I could 

21 find a way. Either way would work. I think 

22 it would be cleaner and easier if there was 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 129

1 more definitions and more clarity, rather than 

2 less. But if there is an interest in having 

3 just the default and then the brightest 

4 selectable, I could see a situation where 

5 ENERGY STAR might specify if retail is a lot 

6 brighter than brightest pre-selectable, then 

7 we can account for it that way. 

8 So my preference would be to keep 

9 the definitions in there but if it is not 

10 something that will happen, then we can work 

11 with that. 

12 MR. DOMMU: Okay. One more 

13 follow-up question for everyone, if you guys 

14 don't mind. 

15 So would it be helpful -- I am 

16 hearing two potential solutions or two 

17 potential suggestions. One is to keep the 

18 definition or the tests for the brightest 

19 selectable preset picture setting but also 

20 have retail within the scope, so the brightest 

21 selectable preset picture setting would either 

22 be the brightest one in home or retail. Or to 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 130

1 keep the brightest selectable preset picture 

2 as we currently have it proposed where it is 

3 only the brightest selectable preset picture 

4 setting within home but then to also have a 

5 separate test for retail. 

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon first. 

7 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, I would hope 

8 that we wouldn't test the brightest in-home 

9 and retail because I think it is extra costs 

10 that wouldn't necessarily add anything. 

11 I also think it is important that 

12 when there will be a ratio requirement applied 

13 that it is between what people are seeing in 

14 retail, which is typically very bright, and 

15 what people are seeing at home. 

16 I was at the meeting, the DEFRA 

17 meeting in London when the forced menu was 

18 invented around the table. And I think that 

19 this innovation has been the most effective 

20 and least expensive energy saving technology 

21 that we have developed. We didn't need new 

22 factories to make more efficient televisions 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 131

1 but prior to that, the manufacturers would 

2 compete to get the brightest TV to draw your 

3 attention. The brightest television appears 

4 to have the best picture, the best contrast 

5 and everything, so it sells well. And then 

6 without the forced menu, people were bringing 

7 the television home and viewing the television 

8 in this very consumptive mode. 

9 So by having the forced menu, we 

10 have decreased power consumption in the U.S. 

11 immeasurably. It has been huge. So we want 

12 to -- so, therefore, I think DOE should define 

13 forced menu home mode or the home selection 

14 and the retail selection from the forced menu. 

15 If we are going to test it all, it 

16 makes sense to test in retail mode when 

17 available. And if it is not available, you 

18 could say well if you can't get into retail 

19 mode, then test the brightest selectable mode 

20 in home mode. And that would be a way for DOE 

21 to solve it and it would allow EPA to 

22 potentially require that yes, you might have 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 132

1 tested in brightest selectable but if you want 

2 to pass EPA's ENERGY STAR, you have to have 

3 tested in retail. 

4 MS. RADULOVIC: I mean I think 

5 there is -- this is Verena from ENERGY STAR -- 

6 from EPA. I mean there might be a way to keep 

7 it simple where you do have separate 

8 definitions, one for retail and one for 

9 brightest pre-selectable. Those could be the 

10 same thing but may not necessarily be the same 

11 thing. And that is, I think, if they are the 

12 same thing, then you don't have a problem. 

13 Then you have got your testing, at least from 

14 a programmatic standpoint, you would have 65 

15 percent of whatever essentially is the 

16 maximum. And if they are different, then you 

17 allow for that difference to be there. 

18 So that might be a way to address 

19 it. And that might also sort of future proof 

20 it, where if you -- you know I think the 

21 forced menu sounds like it will be here for a 

22 while. But if it ever is not, then you at 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 133

1 least have that option that you have the 

2 brightest pre-selectable, if that forced menu 

3 is not there. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis. 

5 MR. DESROCHES: Louis Desroches, 

6 LBL. A quick question for Jon. 

7 In cases where the television does 

8 have a retail menu, but it also has this 

9 ticker demo overlay on top of that, what would 

10 you suggest for those cases? 

11 MR. FAIRHURST: So the demo mode 

12 that you are talking about or the ticker, is 

13 that covering the middle of the screen? 

14 Because that would surprise me. 

15 MR. ROTOLO: We have seen it in 

16 cases where there will be something from the 

17 bottom of the ticker that will pop up and 

18 cover the entire screen. We have also seen 

19 cases where the ticker itself will just be on 

20 either the bottom bar or the side bar. 

21 The implications on this, on the 

22 three-bar test, which is used to determine 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 134

1 screen luminance is that it tends, even though 

2 if there is a black region on the bottom of 

3 the screen, the bottom middle part does tend 

4 to have some repercussions even on the center. 

5 So even if it is the brightest, it might be 

6 different if the ticker was not there. That's 

7 just a comment. 

8 MR. FAIRHURST: So it would be 

9 possible then for DOE to say to test in the 

10 retail mode when possible, allowing for some 

11 of these things that might happen. 

12 One other comment I have, 

13 internationally in the latest draft for IEC 

14 4.0 draft, it measures the retail mode, not 

15 the home mode. And I hadn't heard from the 

16 Europeans or even from Keith in these meetings 

17 about changing within the regulatory 

18 environment. So that is new information for 

19 me. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Charlie? 

21 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

22 Our concern is where we measure 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 135

1 the power consumption of the TV, actually. 

2 And I remember a meeting I attended way back 

3 around the turn of the century, I think, where 

4 a researcher, and I can't remember if it was 

5 Panasonic or Sharp, basically shared some of 

6 his research about energy consumption during a 

7 typical hour of television. And he noted that 

8 about 50 some percent, 54 percent or something 

9 of the power consumption of the television 

10 during any given hour was during the 27 

11 minutes of commercials. And he noted that the 

12 reason for that was both because the 

13 television was louder and brighter during the 

14 commercials. 

15 So from that, I took the notion 

16 that the content does matter but I also took 

17 from that that the screen brightness matters a 

18 lot to the power consumption of the television 

19 and probably always will. So my biggest 

20 concern, again, is where are we measuring the 

21 power consumption of the television? What 

22 mode is the television in when we are 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 136

1 measuring its energy consumption? 

2 And so I hear all the arguments 

3 here about measuring screen luminance and 

4 everything else. I get that and I am kind of 

5 ambivalent. Whatever works for people is, I 

6 think, okay with me. But I am really 

7 concerned that we measure the television in 

8 the right setting, the right home setting, so 

9 that it is somewhat representative of what we 

10 are going to find in the field. 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: One of our web 

12 participants, Jeff Howell, wishes to raise a 

13 question or a comment. Jeff, speak clearly. 

14 MR. HOWELL: Yes, this is Jeff 

15 Howell at Toshiba. 

16 So I just had a comment for the 

17 suggestion that if you are going to say that -

18 - 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Hey, Jeff, it 

20 sounds like you are on a speaker phone. Can 

21 you get off the speaker? We can't hear you 

22 now, if you are trying. Nothing yet. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 137

1 Jeff you are not coming through. 

2 Jeff, my web guy says you are not coming 

3 through. You are not connected. Our web guy 

4 says when your audio comes back on, we will 

5 get you back into this conversation. In the 

6 meantime, we are going to proceed. 

7 Additional comments here? Yes, 

8 Bill. 

9 MR. SCHINDLER: Hi, this is Bill 

10 Schindler. All of our TVs today have the same 

11 brightness in retail as they do in the 

12 brightest setting in the whole menu. So it 

13 would be a nonissue. Okay? And we are okay 

14 with it either way. That is what our factory 

15 is saying. But they prefer to go and measure 

16 the retail mode because that is a well17 established ENERGY STAR, California Energy 

18 Commission approach over the last five years. 

19 And as Jon pointed out, the home retail menu 

20 does save a lot of power in that people, for 

21 the most part, you are saying where is it that 

22 people would gravitate towards well we find 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 138

1 that home is a lot more obvious for a consumer 

2 to go into as opposed to retail. 

3 And yes, there are issues that 

4 retail -- some are, not ours but others, give 

5 these little clips on the bottom or something. 

6 They can't be huge clips because when you are 

7 at a retailer and you are trying to evaluate 

8 the performance of that TV next another, it 

9 really yes, it may occasionally jump into some 

10 advertisement but it better most of the time 

11 be a normal TV. 

12 And along that same line, real 

13 quick, it should be available to get back into 

14 retail mode, even if you are in home mode. 

15 There should be a factory reset and we have 

16 found this to be true. In other IEC meetings 

17 we had people saying that, that they haven't 

18 found cases where you couldn't. Part of the 

19 reason is that if you have a TV at a major 

20 retailer and it is set up by someone who is 

21 having a bad day and just presses home by 

22 mistake, you want to back up and get back into 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 139

1 retail mode. You want to have a factory 

2 reset. 

3 So I would say measuring in retail 

4 mode, where possible, and if not possible, 

5 then go into the home menu and do the 

6 brightest selectable setting, which in our 

7 case is the same thing. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Jon. 

9 MR. FAIRHURST: yes, and if the 

10 DOE does have this option where you should do 

11 it this way and if it is not possible, do it 

12 this other way, then it is advisable that that 

13 be noted in any report so that that can be 

14 traced back. For instance, ENERGY STAR could 

15 note how it was tested and so forth. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeff Howell, let's 

17 try you again. Try it. 

18 MR. HOWELL: Yes, can you hear me 

19 now? 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, we can. Good. 

21 MR. HOWELL: Yes, my only comment, 

22 so we share some of the same concerns as 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 140

1 everybody else and we appreciate Verena's 

2 suggestion. But we would be concerned. So if 

3 you said that well as long as retail mode and 

4 the brightest selectable mode are the same, 

5 you don't have to do anything. And that is 

6 fine but the only way you can prove that is 

7 you would have to test the luminance in retail 

8 mode and brightest selectable mode. And we 

9 are all for an accurate test procedure but we 

10 would like to keep it as simple as possible. 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

12 MR. HOWELL: Thank you. 

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Have we covered it 

14 now? That seemed like that was pretty 

15 complete. In fact, we are starting to get a 

16 little redundant, I think. We are about to 

17 move on. Okay? Everybody comfortable? We 

18 are moving on. 

19 MR. ROTOLO: Also, just one more 

20 comment, are there any additional comments on 

21 special functions, additional functions, dark 

22 room or input connections, which we did not 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 141

1 discuss here? 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. 

3 MR. ROTOLO: So now I would like 

4 to turn it over to Kurt Klinke. 

5 MR. KLINKE: Thank you, Anthony. 

6 Again, my name is Kurt Klinke and I am with 

7 Navigant Consulting. 

8 Next we would like to go over some 

9 changes that we have proposed to the test 

10 conditions. 

11 In the SNOPR, DOE has proposed 

12 changes to the following test conditions: the 

13 supply voltage and frequency, the input cable 

14 type, input terminals, and video input device 

15 used for testing, the stabilization required 

16 before testing, and the actual test order. 

17 Again, similar to the definitions 

18 section, we won't be going into more detail 

19 for some of these. We will be going into more 

20 detail on the bolded items. So I will give 

21 you a short summary here of all the items. 

22 DOE has proposed updating the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 142

1 supply voltage and frequency requirements to 

2 incorporate the requirements from IEC 62301 by 

3 reference to allow for international groups to 

4 use this test procedure for testing. However, 

5 again, the voltage and frequency requirements 

6 for the U.S. will still remain the same. So 

7 at 150 volts, 60 hertz. 

8 We removed DVI and VGA as possible 

9 input cables for testing, since they are 

10 intended to be used for displays as opposed to 

11 TVs. DOE included a requirement that the 

12 input terminal designated for typical TV 

13 viewing should be used during testing. DOE 

14 has also specified that the TV and video input 

15 device manufacturers shall not be the same 

16 during testing. 

17 We updated the stabilization 

18 requirements to incorporate IEC 62087, Edition 

19 3.0 by reference. And finally, we updated the 

20 test order. And this goes along with the 

21 conversation that we just had about the new 

22 definitions for the luminance mode tests. We 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 143

1 updated the test order to align with, again, 

2 IEC 62087 and CEA 2037. 

3 And so now we would like to go 

4 over the two topics input terminals and the 

5 video input device in a little bit more 

6 detail. 

7 In the NOPR, DOE did not specify 

8 what input terminal to use during testing. 

9 During the round robin testing, DOE actually 

10 discovered that using different input 

11 terminals could alter a TV's power 

12 consumption. Based on the round robin 

13 testing, we again did additional testing to 

14 investigate this issue. 

15 DOE performed additional testing 

16 with the ABC sensor disabled and found that 

17 some input terminals are designated for 

18 specific uses, in this case, such as gaming. 

19 In these cases, the default picture setting in 

20 which the TV entered changed based on the 

21 input terminal being used, resulting in 

22 changes in power consumption. As such, DOE 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 144

1 has proposed to include the requirement that 

2 the primary input terminal designated for 

3 viewing dynamic content or live TV with a Blu4 ray disc player or set-top box shall be used 

5 for testing. So here are a couple of examples 

6 of possible input terminal designations on a 

7 TV that would be and would not be acceptable 

8 during testing. 

9 At this time, DOE would like to 

10 request comment from interested parties on the 

11 proposal to perform testing using the primary 

12 input terminal. 

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

14 MR. FAIRHURST: This is Jon 

15 Fairhurst from Sharp. I support this 

16 strongly. I think this is a good improvement 

17 in terms of eliminating, as commented 

18 previously, not only eliminating the DVI and 

19 VGA, but then additionally, since that time, 

20 eliminating game inputs and alternate inputs 

21 of that nature. 

22 In addition by requiring that the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 145

1 manufacturer of the source be different than 

2 the manufacturer of the television, that is a 

3 good discovery. We had seen that but didn't 

4 know what was causing the effect at a previous 

5 IEC meeting. So I will be making a comment to 

6 IEC to incorporate the same requirement. 

7 Oh actually, come to think of it, 

8 I put it in the last draft. So it is already 

9 there. So thanks for that input and it 

10 doesn't increase burden for testing 

11 significantly. 

12 One other thing I would like to 

13 introduce, though is that -- oh, I also 

14 appreciate the internationalization by 

15 allowing 50 hertz, 240 volts. To further 

16 that, I would suggest that DOE allow 50 hertz 

17 video sources to be used, prioritizing 60 

18 hertz because that is the -- or 59.94, which 

19 is the U.S. standard. So that should be the 

20 top priority for U.S. testing. But some 

21 televisions manufactured for Europe and other 

22 places in the world might not have 60 hertz 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 146

1 inputs. And so similarly, one would want to 

2 allow that. 

3 I have some additional comments on 

4 some of the definitions for composite video 

5 and so forth regarding what specification 

6 numbers. I'm not sure if you are going to get 

7 into that later. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: What is the best 

9 place to have that comment? 

10 MR. KLINKE: Do we have that in 

11 the backup slides? So we can actually go over 

12 that now because that was not something that 

13 we were originally going to -- 

14 MR. DOMMU: Let's maybe continue 

15 this conversation and see if there is any 

16 other stakeholders who have feedback on this 

17 particular issue before we get into that. 

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you, 

19 Jeremy. Yes, so additional comments on test 

20 conditions, input terminal, this content? 

21 MR. KLINKE: Okay, so now we can 

22 go into discussing specifically -- oh, sorry. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 147

1 MR. BROOKMAN: Bill, go ahead. 

2 MR. SCHINDLER: I'm not sure 

3 whether -- Hi, this is Bill Schindler. 

4 I need to make a statement about 

5 video input device. 

6 MR. KLINKE: Yes, we will get to 

7 that. 

8 MR. SCHINDLER: Is that coming up? 

9 MR. KLINKE: Yes, that is 

10 something that we will discuss. 

11 MR. SCHINDLER: I'm sorry. 

12 MR. DOMMU: Let's get into that, 

13 the video input device and then we will go 

14 back to the VGA. 

15 MR. BROOKMAN: But before we do, 

16 Charlie. 

17 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

18 I understand why you are doing this but it 

19 kind of highlights what I was saying earlier 

20 about being concerned about what mode we test 

21 the power consumption of the television in. 

22 Next month we will have some data on gaming, 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 148

1 console use and television use, and hours of 

2 use. And we will probably be able to know at 

3 least for our statistical sample, how many -- 

4 what fraction of television hours, primary 

5 television, secondary television, and tertiary 

6 television, actually, are used for gaming and 

7 what fraction is used for viewing and which 

8 devices in the home are on, whether it be a 

9 DVD player or a set-top box, or a game 

10 console, or whatever, in conjunction with the 

11 television. And it may be that we may find 

12 that if 40 percent of the primary television 

13 viewing is done in the gaming mode, then it 

14 really matters measuring the television 

15 consumption that you get when you plug 

16 something in to the gaming terminal. 

17 So again, I will be providing all 

18 of that data. 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: That's next month. 

20 It is after the submission date. 

21 MR. STEPHENS: Well yes and no. I 

22 mean, it is not necessarily the test 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 149

1 procedure. It is what you do with the output 

2 of the test procedure, potentially. It might 

3 have more to do with standards or whatever. 

4 But anyway, the idea here is I am 

5 going to -- I will get it as quickly as I can 

6 but there is quite a lot of data that is 

7 coming out and it is about a month slower than 

8 we thought. But I will provide it to DOE 

9 whether you want or not. There is going to be 

10 enough data there to be useful. 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeremy. 

12 MR. DOMMU: Well, we certainly 

13 welcome any data that you are willing to 

14 share. I mean, I would point out that not all 

15 TVs have specific input terminals for game 

16 versus set-top box versus live TV. 

17 MR. STEPHENS: True but we've got 

18 about 230 televisions. So somewhere in there 

19 we will probably find some. 

20 MR. DOMMU: No, absolutely. And 

21 we welcome that data. And we are also trying 

22 to perform a repeatable, reproducible test 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 150

1 procedure. 

2 So I mean if you are proposing 

3 that okay well you test in game mode, you take 

4 a weighted average of the two based on 

5 whatever data you have, I mean I guess that is 

6 one thing to consider. But in terms of the 

7 repeatability, reproducibility, which I think 

8 we all want to make sure we get right and the 

9 representation of energy consumption, we are 

10 trying to figure out a test that is going to 

11 get us there. So I think that is where we are 

12 coming from when we want to provide additional 

13 specification on the input terminal. 

14 MR. STEPHENS: This is Charlie. I 

15 will have more to say on that when we get 

16 toward the end of the meeting and how you can 

17 maybe step around this. 

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. And so were 

19 you going to take us in a slightly different 

20 direction here? 

21 MR. KLINKE: No. So we are going 

22 to move forward with what we were planning to 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 151

1 discuss, which the next topic is the video 

2 input device used during testing. And then 

3 after that discussion, we can go into then Jon 

4 Fairhurst's question about the specific 

5 definitions used for each of the input cable 

6 types themselves. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Probably after 

8 video input device we will break for lunch. 

9 MR. KLINKE: Okay. During other 

10 testing, DOE discovered that when certain TVs 

11 were plugged into a Blu-ray player of the same 

12 manufacturer, the TV entered into a new 

13 proprietary preset picture setting. This 

14 issue occurred only when the TV and Blu-ray 

15 player shared the same manufacturer. This new 

16 picture setting, this new proprietary picture 

17 setting altered the power consumption of the 

18 TV and was also not available when the TV was 

19 plugged into a Blu-ray player of a different 

20 manufacturer. So it was only seen and only 

21 available when plugged into a Blu-ray player 

22 of the same manufacturer. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 152

1 DOE evaluated this issue by 

2 testing two TVs known to have this proprietary 

3 picture setting and, just as a note, both of 

4 these TVs were made by the same manufacturer. 

5 DOE tested both TVs with five 

6 different Blu-ray players, one of which was 

7 from the same manufacturer. The other four 

8 were made by differing manufacturers. 

9 Blu-ray player, BD Player 1 and 

10 the TV manufacturer were the same and then BD 

11 Players 2 through 5 were of different 

12 manufacturers. 

13 DOE tested both TVs in the picture 

14 setting entered by default when plugged into 

15 each Blu-ray player. When testing with Blu16 ray Player 1, the Blu-ray player with the same 

17 manufacturer, both TVs entered the proprietary 

18 picture setting by default. The power 

19 measured during this test is indicated by the 

20 blue bar on both graphs. 

21 When testing with Blu-ray players 

22 2 through 5, both TVs entered into the same 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 153

1 default picture setting, which was labeled 

2 standard but again, this was different than 

3 the proprietary picture setting seen with Blu4 ray Player 1. 

5 DOE also tested the TV with Blu6 ray Player 1 in the standard TV picture 

7 setting. And please note that no measurements 

8 were taken in the proprietary picture setting 

9 when testing with Blu-ray Players 2 through 5 

10 because that picture setting was not available 

11 at that time. 

12 As can be seen, both TVs consume 

13 the same amount of average power when plugged 

14 into Blu-ray Players 2 through 5 but the TVs' 

15 average power consumption varied, depending on 

16 the picture setting used when plugged into 

17 Blu-ray Player 1. TV 2 consumed the same 

18 average amount of power in the proprietary 

19 picture setting as with Blu-ray Players 2 

20 through 5 but less in the standard picture 

21 setting. Whereas, with TV 12, the TV consumed 

22 more power in the proprietary picture setting 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 154

1 and then the same amount when placed in the 

2 standard TV picture setting. 

3 The percent difference between the 

4 average power consumption seen using Blu-ray 

5 Players 2 through 5 and the power consumption 

6 seen using each picture setting using Blu-ray 

7 Player 1 for each TV are shown in the two 

8 tables at the right. 

9 Based on this testing, DOE has 

10 proposed that the video input device used for 

11 testing and the TV under test shall not have 

12 the same manufacturer to prevent any device 

13 interaction entering into this proprietary 

14 picture -- any proprietary picture setting. 

15 So at this time, DOE requests 

16 comment from interested parties on the 

17 additional specifications for video input 

18 device. 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

20 MR. FAIRHURST: So, as mentioned 

21 before, I support this. 

22 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Bill? 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 155

1 MR. SCHINDLER: As not mentioned 

2 before, I don't support this. Apparently I 

3 missed the memo. 

4 The test labs that I deal with, 

5 they wanted to use their own manufacturer Blu6 ray. It probably was not an expense issue 

7 other than the fact that they get them for 

8 free but they know what that Blu-ray player is 

9 doing and they don't want to use someone 

10 else's Blu-ray player where they are not sure 

11 whether or not this particular issue is even 

12 happening with some other player. They don't 

13 understand someone else's equipment as well as 

14 they do their own. And that is why they have 

15 asked me to state that they would like to 

16 continue using their own equipment. And I 

17 doubt that they are doing -- the particular 

18 company that I am talking about Panasonic, I 

19 doubt that they are doing this proprietary 

20 Blu-ray issue that you have identified. I 

21 have never heard of that. 

22 MR. DOMMU: Could you go back, 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 156

1 Kurt, to the previous slide? 

2 So I mean the issue that we want 

3 to get to when you look at TV 2, you would 

4 expect to have a 50 watt power measurement, 

5 where on TV 12 it is about 200 where all the 

6 TVs are pretty much are measuring out at. 

7 So I mean I guess the issue, Bill, 

8 would be if you want it to be acceptable to 

9 use the same manufacturer video input device 

10 as the TV, we saw two cases. One where even 

11 if you switched it back to the standard 

12 picture setting after it entered the 

13 proprietary picture setting, now we are 

14 getting different results based on TV 2 versus 

15 TV 12. If you turned TV 2 back to the 

16 standard picture setting, then you are not 

17 getting a consistent result. Whereas, if you 

18 turn TV 12 to the standard picture setting, 

19 you are getting a consistent result. So there 

20 is this variability that we noted that we want 

21 to try to address. 

22 So I guess the question I have for 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 157

1 you, and if you don't have an answer now, we 

2 certainly welcome it in the public comments, 

3 is if we do want to allow the same 

4 manufacturer video input device as the TV 

5 manufacturer, how do we prevent this from 

6 happening? 

7 MR. SCHINDLER: Yes, I will 

8 certainly get back to you on that. I will ask 

9 them if there is a way, a test that they can 

10 do to prevent or make sure that this isn't 

11 happening. 

12 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie Stephens. 

13 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

14 This is an interesting effect but I think I 

15 had the opposite reaction. It seems to me 

16 that you would want to force a manufacturer to 

17 use their own Blu-ray player if they had one. 

18 MR. DOMMU: Do you want to 

19 elaborate? 

20 MR. STEPHENS: Well, I think it 

21 presents a worst case. 

22 MR. DOMMU: Not in TV 2. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 158

1 MR. STEPHENS: Well it is no 

2 worse. It is either the same or it is worse. 

3 I mean and I think there is an incentive 

4 there for a manufacturer. It looks like this 

5 manufacturer, at least in one case, is 

6 enhancing the picture in some fashion when you 

7 use their stuff but it won't do that in the 

8 presence of somebody else's equipment. 

9 So to me that, is a worst case 

10 sort of circumstance. It either doesn't 

11 matter or if it does matter, it uses more 

12 energy. And to me, that to me is I would say 

13 use your own and it either matters or it 

14 doesn't. 

15 MR. DOMMU: Point taken. I mean, 

16 one quick follow-up would be with TV 12, if 

17 you used your own then you would get a 

18 different result than if you used someone 

19 else. So then that is the repeatability issue 

20 there. So how would we fix that based on what 

21 you are suggesting? 

22 MR. STEPHENS: Well it is not 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 159

1 repeatability outside the lab. I mean, you 

2 get the same result every time in the lab. 

3 Right? 

4 MR. DOMMU: Yes. If a 

5 manufacturer made a claim with the 

6 representation of the power consumption of the 

7 TV using their own and then someone spot 

8 checked it using a different, you are going to 

9 get different results. 

10 MR. STEPHENS: You are going to 

11 get different results. But from what I am 

12 seeing here, you are going to get -- it will 

13 be less. It will use less than what it is 

14 advertised, which is a better circumstance 

15 than having it use more. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Anthony. 

17 MR. ROTOLO: Yes, I would just 

18 like to point out that so you have this 

19 interaction. It is only occurring when you 

20 have a player of the same manufacturer with a 

21 TV of the same manufacturer. We don't have 

22 statistics to point in one direction but we 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 160

1 can infer that you have a high probability 

2 that in a typical situation you have a 

3 selection of multiple other manufacturers of 

4 players so that even if this is the tested 

5 situation, it may not be and you can infer 

6 that it most likely won't be a situation that 

7 a customer would see. 

8 And it can go either way. So the 

9 TV 2 and TV 12 are actually opposite cases. 

10 So in one case, it is a worst case scenario, 

11 whereas in the other case, it is aligning with 

12 the rest of the average power consumption of 

13 the other TVs. I think that the main issue 

14 that we are concerned about is just this 

15 communication between the two. And we see the 

16 TV as more or less a black box. So it is 

17 difficult to tell what is happening between 

18 the two and the fact that there is some type 

19 of external communication that we can't 

20 control is what concerned us. 

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeff Howell, you 

22 are next in the queue. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 161

1 MR. HOWELL: Yes, I guess my 

2 comment is just I didn't know -- I don't have 

3 the definition of manufacturer for DOE in 

4 front of me but I wonder if you mean 

5 manufacturer brand. Because I would expect it 

6 doesn't matter where it is manufactured. It 

7 matters what brand it is. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

9 Yes. 

10 MS. RADULOVIC: I just have a 

11 question for Kurt. This is Verena Radulovic 

12 from EPA. 

13 So when this was happening, if you 

14 are using the same manufacturer of the TV and 

15 the Blu-ray player, when it would go into the 

16 proprietary picture setting, was there a way 

17 for the lab practitioners to really easily go 

18 into standard? So it automatically went into 

19 the proprietary and were they stuck there? 

20 MR. KLINKE: No. You could then 

21 change into other preset picture settings as 

22 you would normally, just with any other Blu-
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 162

1 ray player. It was just using the same 

2 manufacturer Blu-ray player. It just 

3 basically added another preset picture setting 

4 onto your list of available settings. 

5 MS. RADULOVIC: So is there a way 

6 -- in other words, if you weren't specific on 

7 the Blu-ray player, could you just be specific 

8 on if there is a proprietary setting that you 

9 change it to standard? 

10 MR. KLINKE: Yes, that is a 

11 possibility but that gets into the same 

12 repeatability issue as testing in the 

13 proprietary picture setting. 

14 MS. RADULOVIC: Oh, okay. 

15 MR. KLINKE: And in this case with 

16 TV 2, when switching back to standard, the 

17 power consumption was then lower than standard 

18 with other Blu-ray players, whereas with TV 12 

19 it was the same. So it is, unfortunately, 

20 there is that variation between the two TVs 

21 where they don't show the same reaction. And 

22 so either case that you go with, you are going 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 163

1 to have the same repeatability issue. 

2 MS. RADULOVIC: Okay. 

3 MR. KLINKE: In one case you are 

4 going to get the difference between the 

5 standard of the other Blu-ray players or 

6 whatever you use with, in this case, Blu-ray 

7 Player 1. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Anthony. 

9 MR. ROTOLO: Just another note is 

10 that these picture settings they were 

11 additional, as they were not seen in any other 

12 cases with Blu-ray player-TV combinations and 

13 that they were the default picture setting in 

14 both of those cases. 

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

16 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, two responses 

17 to some things that were said. In terms of 

18 Bill's concern about using a third party Blu19 ray player where maybe the test lab isn't as 

20 comfortable that it is performing properly, we 

21 do include color bars as part of the IEC test 

22 disc. So it would be possible, with some 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 164

1 professional test equipment, to monitor the 

2 output of the color bars and make sure that it 

3 truly is putting out the correct digital test 

4 levels. So that could be verified. 

5 And then in terms of Charlie's 

6 concern that maybe -- suggestion that maybe we 

7 should use the same one, the intent for the 

8 IEC test disc is to make sure that we are 

9 putting out the calibrated levels so that when 

10 you use, let's say a set-top box or your tuner 

11 to view off air or the typical television 

12 streams, that this will be representative of 

13 that. I believe, I don't have the data right 

14 here, that most of the viewing is done with 

15 television broadcast or cable channels, 

16 satellite channels, and so forth, rather than 

17 watching DVD movies or Blu-ray movies. So we 

18 don't want to have a test that would not be 

19 representative when you are watching the 

20 broadcast television. 

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, have we 

22 covered this? So additional and perhaps final 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 165

1 comments on this subject because we are about 

2 to go to lunch. Okay, I think we have done 

3 it, then. 

4 It is now ten minutes after 12:00 

5 -- one additional. Yes, Bill, please. 

6 MR. SCHINDLER: Yes, this is Bill 

7 again. I mean I certainly understand we don't 

8 want crazy things happening or gaming or 

9 whatever. I mean I very much agree with Jon 

10 on that issue. 

11 So unless there is some way to 

12 guarantee that the gaming or this proprietary 

13 action isn't going on, then yes, it would make 

14 sense to use someone else's Blu-ray player. I 

15 am just talking about the folks that are doing 

16 the test. They wanted to use their own 

17 because they knew their own and they knew it 

18 was a good unit and it was calibrated. 

19 Well Jon suggests that you could 

20 take some other unit and calibrate it. Maybe 

21 that is the workaround. 

22 MR. DOMMU: Yes, I appreciate your 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 166

1 concern. I think that makes certainly a lot 

2 of sense. So thank you. 

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, let's go to 

4 lunch. It is 12:10. We will resume here in 

5 this room in an hour at 1:10. 

6 (Whereupon, at 12:10 p.m., a lunch 

7 recess was taken.) 

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 167

1 A-F-T-E-R-N-O-O-N S-E-S-S-I-O-N 

2 (1:16 p.m.) 

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Welcome back, 

4 everyone. A few individuals are new that have 

5 joined as we introduced ourselves this 

6 morning. Do you want to introduce yourself, 

7 please? 

8 MR. BELT: Sure. Bill Belt from 

9 Consumer Electronics Association. 

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Anybody 

11 else that didn't get a chance? Okay, then we 

12 are going to proceed where we left off and we 

13 are hearing from Kurt. 

14 MR. KLINKE: Yes. So again, my 

15 name is Kurt Klinke. I am with Navigant 

16 Consulting. And we are actually going to take 

17 a slight detour from the original presentation 

18 to address, I believe, Bill Schindler, it was 

19 your comment regarding the actual definitions 

20 of the input cables -- or sorry -- Jon, was 

21 that you? 

22 So these are the definitions that 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 168

1 we would like to use for the input cables. 

2 For HDMI, an audio-video interface that meets 

3 the HDMI specification version 1.0. For 

4 component video, a video display interface 

5 that meets the specification in CEA-770.3-D. 

6 For S-video, a video display interface that 

7 transmits analog video over two channels, 

8 luminance and color. And finally for 

9 composite video, a video display interface 

10 that uses a RCA or Radio Corporation of 

11 America connection to transmit National 

12 Television System Committee, NTSC analog 

13 video. 

14 MR. FAIRHURST: Very good. This 

15 is Jon Fairhurst from Sharp. Regarding HDMI, 

16 it should probably be 1.0 or newer because 

17 there are many specifications that have been 

18 released since then. I believe they are all 

19 compatible with 1.0 but they meet the others. 

20 For component, that is correct. 

21 That is the correct CEA standard. For S-video 

22 -- and I will put this in writing in my 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 169

1 comments so that people don't have to notate 

2 them exactly but there is IEC 60933-5 that 

3 happens to specify S-video. So that will be 

4 more specific. 

5 And regarding the composite video, 

6 yes, it doesn't actually transmit the NTSC 

7 analog video and that kind of implies a 

8 transmitter like a broadcast station. But 

9 there is the SMPTE 170M is the standard for 

10 composite in the U.S. And that reminded me 

11 that there is also ITU BT.470.6. And once 

12 again, I will put these in writing. And that 

13 is for the PAL analog video. And that does 

14 raise the issue of 50 and 60 hertz. So 

15 overall, one would want to specify the 

16 preference for 60 and if not possible, then to 

17 use 50 hertz as the alternative. 

18 And I would propose that this 

19 hierarchy would come first. So first 

20 instance, does it have HDMI? Yes, then use 

21 HDMI. Then is 60 hertz available, yes or no? 

22 And you use the correct frequency after that. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 170

1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 

2 MR. KLINKE: One question for you 

3 as we are talking about different standards 

4 that define things. In regards to the 50 

5 versus 60 hertz video signals, similar to 

6 62301 where it has specific voltage and 

7 frequency combinations for different areas, is 

8 there a similar standard that has 

9 specifications for frequency of the video or 

10 is that just more of an ad hoc, depending on 

11 where you are? 

12 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, I think it is 

13 depending on where you are. But for DOE's 

14 situation, I would say simply state that 60 is 

15 the preference and that is mainly for the U.S. 

16 and if that is not available, then to use 50 

17 and that would be a very simple way to solve 

18 it. 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Other comments on 

20 these definitions? 

21 MR. KLINKE: All right, now we 

22 will be moving back to the original 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 171

1 presentation. So now we would like to move on 

2 to changes proposed for the measurement 

3 equipment accuracy requirements. 

4 In a NOPR, DOE proposed the 

5 following accuracy requirements for light 

6 measurement devices or I may refer to them as 

7 LMDs from here on out. An accuracy of plus or 

8 minus 2 percent, plus or minus 2 digits, a 

9 repeatability of plus or minus 0.4 percent, 

10 plus or minus 2 digits, as well as an 

11 acceptance angle of 3 degrees or less. 

12 Some stakeholders requested 

13 clarification of how to calculate the required 

14 accuracy, specifically how to calculate the 

15 plus or minus two digits portion of the 

16 specification. In the SNOPR, DOE has provided 

17 two examples of how to calculate LMD accuracy, 

18 one of which is recreated below. 

19 In this case, an LMD is displaying 

20 a value of 300 candelas per meter squared. In 

21 this case, or in all cases, calculating 

22 accuracy requires two steps. First we 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 172

1 multiply the displayed value by 2 percent, 

2 giving plus or minus 6 candelas per meter 

3 squared. 

4 Secondly, since the display shows 

5 300 candelas per meter squared, we can see 

6 that the resolution is at 1 candela per meter 

7 squared. We then multiply this resolution by 

8 2, coming from the 2 digits portion of the 

9 accuracy requirements to get plus or minus 2 

10 candelas per meter squared. 

11 The two values are then added 

12 together to get a total required accuracy of 

13 plus or minus 8 candelas per meter squared for 

14 displayed value of 300. 

15 Other stakeholders requested 

16 clarification to what kind of LMDs these 

17 requirements apply. As such, in the SNOPR DOE 

18 has clarified that LMD requirements cover both 

19 illuminance and luminance measurement devices. 

20 DOE has also removed the repeatability 

21 requirement as it is not appropriate for all 

22 LMDs and has clarified that the acceptance 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 173

1 angle requirement applies only to luminance 

2 measurement devices. And in this case, that 

3 is for both contact and non-contact 

4 measurement devices. 

5 At this time, DOE seeks comment 

6 from interested parties on the clarification 

7 of the LMD accuracy requirements and the 

8 removal of the LMD repeatability requirement. 

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Maybe you could 

10 just go to the preceding slide, please, as a 

11 cue. Comments? Yes, Jon. 

12 MR. FAIRHURST: Jon Fairhurst from 

13 Sharp. The way it is written in SNOPR right 

14 now 3.1.3 might be a bit confusing in that it 

15 says luminance meters shall also have an 

16 acceptance angle of 3 degrees or less. And 

17 the following statement is this specification 

18 covers all types of luminance meters, both 

19 contact and non-contact, as well as 

20 illuminance meters, which makes it confusing. 

21 It makes it sound as if the 3 degrees applies 

22 to the illuminance meters as well, which it 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 174

1 clearly shouldn't. And in fact I wonder if 

2 the 3 degrees or less is appropriate for 

3 contact meter. 

4 I think it very appropriate for 

5 non-contact where you are essentially shooting 

6 a beam at the screen but for a contact meter, 

7 it is more about the contact patch than the 

8 angle. 

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Anthony. 

10 MR. ROTOLO: We, in one of the 

11 contact meters that we have used, we saw that 

12 it had a specification that it had an 

13 acceptance angel of 1 percent or less, I 

14 believe it was. So we thought that it would 

15 still be appropriate that it was far under the 

16 3 percent but it still met that requirement. 

17 I would assume that in cases of all contact 

18 meters, they would be under that 3 percent 

19 acceptance angle. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon? 

21 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, I am not sure 

22 that contact meters always use an acceptance 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 175

1 angle that is so narrow. If you back up and 

2 you record a distance, you would have a 3 

3 degree angle on a non-contact meter. That can 

4 be a sizeable patch and cover a number of 

5 pixels. If you are literally right on top of 

6 the screen with a three degree acceptance 

7 angle, you might be reading a half a pixel or 

8 something like this. So it seems 

9 inappropriate for contact meter. Because it 

10 is really, the end goal is to cover an 

11 appropriate amount of the screen, not so much 

12 that you are getting into the black bar areas 

13 and so forth, and not so little that you are 

14 seeing only a single pixel that might be 

15 anomalous. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, good. Other 

17 comments on light measurement devices? Okay. 

18 MR. KLINKE: All right, we would 

19 now like to move on to some proposed changes 

20 that we have made in standby mode testing. 

21 In the NOPR, DOE proposed to test 

22 standby-active, high mode and incorporated by 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 176

1 reference CEA's test procedure for download 

2 acquisition mode, or in this case I may refer 

3 to it as DAM. 

4 Following the NOPR, DOE attempted 

5 to provide clarification for the CEA DAM test 

6 procedure. Based on this research, DOE 

7 determined that the DAM test procedure was not 

8 appropriate for testing standby-active, high 

9 mode for a number of reasons. First, the test 

10 was originally designed to test hospitality 

11 TVs, which as DOE understands it, represent a 

12 very small percentage of the total TVs market. 

13 Secondly, the test is not designed for the 

14 networks most commonly used by network-enabled 

15 TVs today, such as Wi-Fi and Ethernet. 

16 The test would also require that 

17 manufacturers either provide specific 

18 workloads and equipment in order to perform 

19 the testing or that manufacturers participate 

20 actively in testing. In addition, the types 

21 of workloads may vary significantly, which 

22 could significantly alter the power 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 177

1 consumption of the TV, based on the workload 

2 used during the test. 

3 Finally, the test provides two 

4 possible approaches for measuring power 

5 consumption: the practical and the 

6 theoretical. 

7 The practical approach requires 

8 knowing the amount of time a TV spends in this 

9 download acquisition mode per day and then you 

10 test the power measurement in download 

11 acquisition mode and then apply that to the 

12 certain number of hours. The data for the 

13 amount of time a TV spends in DAM per day is 

14 not available to the public. The theoretical 

15 approach then requires that the power 

16 consumption of a TV be measured for an entire 

17 24 hours so that any power -- just to be able 

18 to model the power consumption in DAM over a 

19 full day, which would significantly increase 

20 test burden. 

21 DOE was unable to find any other 

22 test procedure that could accurately test 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 178

1 standby-active, high mode. So as such, DOE 

2 has proposed to remove the standby-active, 

3 high mode test in the SNOPR. 

4 At this time, DOE requests comment 

5 from interested parties on the removal of the 

6 standby-active high mode test while still 

7 maintaining a definition for that mode. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon? 

9 MR. FAIRHURST: I support removing 

10 the standby-active, high test for exactly the 

11 reasons stated here. And similarly, on the 

12 specification teams both for IEC and CEA, I am 

13 going to recommend that we remove those test 

14 procedures from the normative part and put 

15 them in an informative annex, so that it would 

16 be available for third parties if they are 

17 interested in making the test but it is not a 

18 normative part of the public's standards 

19 either. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

21 Additional comments here? Oh, 

22 yes, Bill. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 179

1 MR. SCHINDLER: Hi, this is Bill 

2 Schindler. We are also in support for the 

3 same reasons of removing the DAM procedure 

4 from the DOE. But my understanding and just 

5 to make sure that I understand it correctly, 

6 other regulators like ENERGY STAR, for 

7 example, they can have a DAM test but they 

8 will have to provide the procedure for it. 

9 And that is just -- am I roughly paraphrasing 

10 correctly? 

11 MR. DOMMU: Yes, so once -- if and 

12 when DOE finalizes its test procedure, it gets 

13 codified in the Code of Federal Regulations 

14 and the manufacturers must use the test when 

15 making representations of the energy 

16 consumption of a television, if there is an 

17 entity who wants to provide additional testing 

18 or requirements that are outside the scope of 

19 DOE's test procedure, that would be their 

20 choice to do so. But when making a 

21 representation of any output from the DOE test 

22 procedure, an entity would have to use the DOE 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 180

1 test procedure in order to make that 

2 representation. 

3 MR. SCHINDLER: Thank you. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Yes, Bijit. 

5 MR. KUNDU: Bijit Kundu with 

6 Energy Solutions. Just to clarify, just 

7 because the standby-active, high mode will be 

8 defined in -- if the standby-active, high mode 

9 is defined in a final test procedure, that 

10 does not mean it is in the scope. Is that 

11 correct? Because it is not an output of the 

12 test procedure. 

13 MR. DOMMU: Yes, I think that 

14 would be accurate to say that we are defining 

15 it but we are not providing a test for it. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Jeremy. 

17 Those last two comments were from Jeremy. 

18 Additional comments here? Okay. 

19 Yes, Bill? 

20 MR. SCHINDLER: Maybe this is the 

21 time because I don't know that we will cover 

22 it otherwise, California requires a power 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 181

1 factor measurement and it is not defined 

2 exactly how to do it in the DOE procedure. At 

3 least, I didn't see it. In California they 

4 have to do it over ten minutes averaging it. 

5 It is not just a single measurement. There is 

6 a procedure involved. And I don't believe 

7 there is any procedure for the power factor in 

8 the DOE test. Is that something that should 

9 be addressed or is California just going to do 

10 their own thing? 

11 MR. DOMMU: Well the DOE test does 

12 have an output for the power factor as part of 

13 the test. Do you feel like there is not 

14 enough information in order to output that 

15 within the test procedure? 

16 MR. SCHINDLER: Perhaps. The 

17 power factor will vary upon the load. And for 

18 example, in Canada, I know we are not in 

19 Canada, but in Canada they put in the three20 bar test pattern and it is a simple pattern 

21 and they measure the power factor. Done. 

22 That's it. California requires -- I don't 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 182

1 have it in the top of my head but is about a 

2 ten-minute multiple through the IEC test loop. 

3 I think you are running the IEC test loop for 

4 ten minutes and you are averaging it over that 

5 period of time. You have to measure it once 

6 every minute. I think that is what it was. 

7 It was like ten measurements once every 

8 minute. 

9 The issue we have there is 

10 repeatability. If the technician has got a 

11 stopwatch, you know the scenes are changing on 

12 that tape. They are going left and right, you 

13 know, into bright and dim. And so your power 

14 factor could potentially also be varying. And 

15 one technician might be, you know his 

16 stopwatch might be hitting these numbers on 

17 bright settings and someone on dim settings. 

18 Whereas, we would feel that it would be 

19 simpler and more accurate and repeatable just 

20 to put up the three-bar pattern and shoot it 

21 one time. That's it. It is not that critical 

22 of a number, quite frankly, and we would 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 183

1 prefer to see something simple like that be 

2 stated for the power factor. 

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

4 Yes, Charlie? 

5 MR. STEPHENS: Yes, I think we 

6 have done a little bit of research on this, 

7 too, and I would agree with Bill. I think we 

8 get an accurate enough measurement of a good 

9 power factor versus a not-so-good power factor 

10 with a three-bar test. And I think 

11 repeatability is an issue when you are trying 

12 to actively or periodically measure something 

13 that is going by and changing at that kind of 

14 a rate. So it might be helpful if DOE were 

15 just to specify when or how that is taken and 

16 that it be in very simple terms, similar to 

17 what Canada is doing, I think. We would 

18 support that. 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Jon. 

20 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, and I also 

21 support the two previous statements. It 

22 should be a simple measurement, not timed with 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 184

1 the ten-minute test loop. 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks. 

3 Bill? 

4 MR. SCHINDLER: And I believe that 

5 Canada says it is going to be the standard 

6 default mode and I think the ABC, I believe it 

7 is disabled but you might want to decide 

8 whether you leave the ABC just in its default 

9 state, however it is that you are going to 

10 perhaps consider that. You would want to 

11 consider both the mode and the ABC, whether it 

12 is enabled or disabled. 

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 

14 MR. KLINKE: Okay, great. 

15 For the NOPR, DOE considered 

16 including a test for standby-active, low mode, 

17 but ultimately did not. However, the ENERGY 

18 STAR version 6.0 TV's test method published in 

19 September of 2012 does include a test for 

20 standby-active, low mode. In addition, DOE 

21 believes that this mode is more representative 

22 of normal operation for network-enabled TVs 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 185

1 than a standby-active, high mode. 

2 As such, in this SNOPR, DOE has 

3 proposed to include the standby-active, low 

4 mode test from the ENERGY STAR version 6.0 

5 test method and to require that all network6 enabled TVs be tested in standby-active 

7 active, low mode rather than standby-passive. 

8 In addition, as part of the 

9 standby-active, low mode tests, DOE has also 

10 proposed to use the same network connection 

11 hierarchy as again the ENERGY STAR version 6.0 

12 TV specification and test procedure. 

13 Also, the TV shall be connected 

14 only to a local area network or LAN, to ensure 

15 that the connection is on but not actively 

16 transferring data. And we have also included 

17 here the network connection hierarchy from the 

18 ENERGY STAR version 6.0 test procedure, which 

19 includes Wi-Fi at the top, followed by 

20 Ethernet, coax, RJ-11, and then other. 

21 At this time, DOE requests comment 

22 from interested parties on the addition of a 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 186

1 standby-active, low mode power measurement 

2 test. DOE also requests comments on the 

3 proposed network hierarchy. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon? 

5 MR. FAIRHURST: This is Jon 

6 Fairhurst from Sharp. 

7 The standby-active, low definition 

8 is that you can turn the television on from an 

9 external source. So it is not clear that that 

10 is exactly what we are testing. And it might 

11 be just fine in that you connect the network 

12 and enable it, but that doesn't necessarily 

13 mean that you can turn it on from an external 

14 source. So what we are essentially doing is 

15 testing standby with the network-enabled. So 

16 maybe that is not formally standby-active, 

17 low, as defined by IEC and so forth. It is 

18 more of a standby with network connected. 

19 I'm not sure of the right way to 

20 resolve this. However, there is the -- I 

21 guess on one hand you would say if you are 

22 really going to test in standby active low you 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 187

1 have to test that you can turn the TV on and 

2 off from an external source, configure it to 

3 do that and so forth, which could be -- but 

4 that might not be really what you are looking 

5 for. I think what is typically going to 

6 happen in the television world is the consumer 

7 brings home the television, connects the 

8 network because they want to watch some IP 

9 service. And they connect it, they enable the 

10 network, they view the TV, then they hit the 

11 off button on the remote. It goes into 

12 standby and they go to sleep. And that is, I 

13 think, the mode that you want to test it in, 

14 which is the typical standby when the 

15 television happens to have the network 

16 connected. 

17 So I think you are probably doing 

18 exactly the right thing but it is not formally 

19 standby-active low. 

20 MR. DOMMU: So are you suggesting 

21 that we change the definition, change the test 

22 or neither? 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 188

1 MR. FAIRHURST: I would recommend 

2 maybe it is a new word that needs to be like 

3 standby-network connected or something like 

4 that. Standby-active, low has been defined 

5 for a number of years I know before I started 

6 working on things on this in 2005, standby7 active, low has been defined by IEC. So I 

8 would recommend not changing the definition of 

9 standby-active, low. And maybe it is okay, 

10 maybe I am just picking a nit here, but maybe 

11 a different name like standby-network enabled 

12 would be more appropriate. 

13 MR. DOMMU: Okay, thank you. 

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

15 Charlie? 

16 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

17 We have one concern. One of the folks that 

18 does a lot of lab testing for us tested one 

19 television where there was actually more than 

20 one standby mode, as Jon described it, and 

21 when you were in the less than one watt 

22 standby mode, essentially I will describe it 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 189

1 as, and you turned the television on, it would 

2 bring up a menu and it would say you are not 

3 operating in the quick start mode, would you 

4 like to operate in the quick start mode. And 

5 if you answer yes to that question and the 

6 television shifts into that mode, it now 

7 consumes 24 watts in standby. 

8 And so I am trying to understand 

9 how it is that we can capture that 

10 circumstance in a standby mode because the 

11 difference there, there was a large 

12 difference. I think it was 30 times more 

13 power consumption -- or no less than that -- 

14 20 times more consumption in the quick start 

15 mode. 

16 And so I think you need to somehow 

17 make sure that that television gets tested in 

18 the most consumptive of the standby modes or 

19 off mode that it can be in when there is more 

20 than one. And there is obviously at least one 

21 case here where we have tested it and it does 

22 do that. And if it were the difference 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 190

1 between a half a watt and 1.5 watts or 

2 something like that, I don't know that I would 

3 worry too much about it. But when you go from 

4 something like 0.7 to 24 watts, that is of 

5 concern to us. 

6 MR. DOMMU: Could you comment at 

7 all on the performance of that TV? Like by 

8 putting it in quick start mode, what exactly 

9 does that mean compared to not being in quick 

10 start mode? 

11 MR. STEPHENS: Everything -- if 

12 you didn't put it in quick start mode, it 

13 would take somewhere between 20 and 30 seconds 

14 before the screen came up to full brightness, 

15 you had your menu options on the screen and 

16 everything was essentially functional and you 

17 could actually do something with the remote 

18 and change something on the screen. If you 

19 put it in quick start mode, all of that would 

20 happen in less than five seconds. 

21 MR. DOMMU: So it sounds like 

22 there is likely to be some consumer utility of 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 191

1 having it in quick start mode. 

2 MR. STEPHENS: The reason, I think 

3 the way the language in the option as 

4 presented to the consumer sort of made it a 

5 very attractive thing to want to do. You 

6 would sit there as a consumer thinking well of 

7 course I want quick start. It is like well of 

8 course I want a racing car here to do away 

9 with this Yugo here that I have got. 

10 So anyway, I think it is of some 

11 concern to us that there could be more than 

12 one standby mode or low power mode, sleep 

13 mode, whatever you want to call it and wake up 

14 time, which is also a concern in the set-top 

15 box world, where we are working also, they are 

16 trying to get the wake up time as quick as 

17 possible but right now it is very difficult, 

18 sometimes to get full functionality in less 

19 than 30 seconds if you are staring from say 

20 something less than five watts. 

21 So it ships. It appears to ship 

22 in the 0.7 watt mode and then this menu thing 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 192

1 comes up and says do you want to be in the 

2 quick start mode. Of course you do. I want 

3 it now. So this is -- and from then on, it is 

4 24 watts in standby. 

5 We think this is kind of a problem 

6 and the test procedure needs to somehow at 

7 least reveal what this is or the existence of 

8 it and test it or maybe you should mandate 

9 that it be tested in the highest consumption 

10 standby mode or whatever. But somehow we 

11 think it needs to be accounted for in the test 

12 procedure. 

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Anthony. 

14 MR. ROTOLO: So I can only kind of 

15 shed light on how the current test procedure 

16 would address this. And by the description, 

17 it sounds like it would fall under a special 

18 function as defined by we are currently 

19 proposing to reference IEC 60287 for that. 

20 And for such a function, you would test it in 

21 its default configuration. So if by default, 

22 like you said, it was not enabled, therefore, 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 193

1 we would see it as 0.7 watts, whereas if a 

2 customer were to enable it, it would be in 

3 like you said, 24 watts. So that is how the 

4 current procedure would address that. 

5 MR. STEPHENS: That's what we are 

6 afraid of. Because as shipped, it appears to 

7 ship at 0.7 but the menu, the way the menu is 

8 worded the consumer doesn't know that they are 

9 about to select the difference between 0.7 

10 watts and 24 watts, 24/7. 

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeff Howell, Jeff 

12 do you have a question or a comment? 

13 MR. HOWELL: Yes, so we agree with 

14 Jon's comments. I think the definition the 

15 DOE uses for standby-active, low is correct 

16 but the test description, it could be 

17 measuring the two different things that Jon 

18 points out. And you know there isn't any 

19 interest by regulators in knowing both. I 

20 mean, you could have a TV that is connected to 

21 a network and then when you hit the off 

22 button, it goes to standby-passive. Or it 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 194

1 could be in some artificially high mode due to 

2 poor design or quick start. 

3 So and I guess the other comment 

4 we would have, I think the current test for 

5 this is it is 40 minute test, basically 30 

6 minutes stabilization and you do the 

7 measurement over the last 10. So we 

8 questioned why do we really need 30 minutes. 

9 That is a long time for a standby test like 

10 this. And it would seem like, you know, I 

11 don't know if a ten-minute test stabilization 

12 would be more appropriate. 

13 Thank you. 

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Jon? 

15 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, I would agree 

16 with Jeff that the 30-minute stabilization 

17 seems longer than necessary. I don't know if 

18 DOE had any data that showed that 30 minutes 

19 was needed but it does add to the cost and 

20 complexity of the test if it is that long. I 

21 would think that ten minutes would be 

22 adequate. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 195

1 And then in response to Charlie 

2 brought up the quick start, I don't know if 

3 that was going to be part of another 

4 discussion with the special functions and so 

5 forth. I guess we already discussed special 

6 functions as part of the definitions part. 

7 So the difference between an 

8 additional function, a special function, an 

9 additional function might be something like a 

10 set-top box, a toaster, helicopter, something 

11 connected to the TV that is not normally used 

12 for typical television viewing. So you would 

13 turn those off by default. But the special 

14 functions are things like super bass boost, or 

15 beautiful picture, or something like this that 

16 directly has to do with the viewing of the 

17 television. And appropriately so, DOE has 

18 said if it is on by default, leave it on by 

19 default. 

20 But there is a question area and I 

21 think Charlie raises this indirectly, which is 

22 what if when you turn on the TV there is a 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 196

1 user prompt? So in the set-up menu, the 

2 initial set-up menu, there is a user prompt 

3 that says do you want super bass boost or do 

4 you want quick start mode. And I think the 

5 correct way to model what the consumer will do 

6 is to enable all of those. 

7 So in other words, it is not just 

8 if it is on by default. If it is on by 

9 default or presented in a user prompt during 

10 the initial setup menu, then you would enable 

11 it. 

12 And for the manufacturers, that 

13 clears up a gray area because it is not clear 

14 if you are prompted for something is it on or 

15 off by default. And so I think the 

16 manufacturer's interest is we would like it 

17 defined either on or off if you are prompted 

18 at the setup menu. 

19 And frankly, I think it would 

20 address Charlie's concern is if you are 

21 prompted in the setup menu for quick start or 

22 any other special function, then enable it. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 197

1 If it is not presented to the user, then leave 

2 it in the default. 

3 MR. STEPHENS: That sounds like a 

4 reasonable proposal. I think if you did that, 

5 it would ease our minds a lot. 

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Charlie. 

7 And now to Jeremy. 

8 MR. DOMMU: One question I have on 

9 that and I am just trying to think of 

10 potential hypotheticals would be what happens 

11 if that forced menu popped up and said do you 

12 want super energy efficient mode. And by 

13 enabling that, you now are actually going from 

14 a mode that is more power consumptive to a 

15 mode that is less so. Would you enable or you 

16 would disable that? I mean it could go both 

17 ways. A special function could increase or 

18 decrease power consumption. 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

20 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, I think if 

21 you are offering the consumer to turn 

22 something on, in general they will. But yes, 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 198

1 there may be some gray areas like that. And 

2 regardless, currently that could still happen 

3 and so you would hit the setup menu and you 

4 would say, oh no, what do I do. 

5 So I think maybe you could say if 

6 it is presented in the setup menu that you 

7 would choose the most energy consumptive but 

8 then you have got to test multiple situations. 

9 So, I think typically I have seen it where 

10 you are turning something additional and I 

11 haven't seen the thing where you are prompted 

12 to turn stuff off. 

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie. 

14 MR. STEPHENS: Well and then I 

15 would come back and say okay, if we go with 

16 Jon's suggestion about if it is prompted in 

17 the setup menu, what if the consumer is 

18 prompted with do we want to go in the energy 

19 conserving mode and then two bars later is do 

20 you want to go in the quick start mode? I 

21 mean, okay? So which do you do? 

22 You know, I guess it depends on 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 199

1 what your definition of what eco mode is or 

2 what energy conservation mode is. Is that an 

3 active mode or is that in standby? That 

4 depends on who defines what that mode is, 

5 which could be different with every 

6 manufacturer. 

7 The other things is that it is our 

8 understanding, generally, that performance 

9 costs energy, whether it be quick or bright, 

10 or loud or whatever it is, vivid, however you 

11 define performance, it generally costs more 

12 energy to get more performance. 

13 And so I think a lot of what 

14 consumers are often prompted for mostly 

15 because manufacturers are concerned about 

16 consumers' perception of performance is 

17 performance. I mean do you want this 

18 performance mode? And they will generally 

19 cost some energy, I think. 

20 If it is there and consumers are 

21 aware that they can change something, that 

22 doesn't necessarily mean that they will change 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 200

1 it or that it is energy using or not. It is 

2 just different. But if you are prompted with 

3 something like do you want quick start, I mean 

4 to me that is performance and we are seeing 

5 this in a lot of other devices, you know, how 

6 fast can it wake up. And it generally has to 

7 consume more power if you want it to wake up 

8 faster. 

9 And so there are certain features, 

10 I think, that are going to be an issue. And 

11 again, I would not be concerned about this if 

12 it was the difference between one or two 

13 watts, you know. But it is not. It is two 

14 orders of magnitude, in some cases I swear, 

15 depending on the device we are talking about. 

16 So anyway, I think we need to sort 

17 through it because the differences are so big. 

18 MR. DOMMU: Yes, I would just -- 

19 let's -- you know we will certainly give this 

20 some thought as we are moving forward with the 

21 rulemaking. I would imagine that you guys 

22 will submit some written comments as well and 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 201

1 I would encourage you in your written comments 

2 to give it some critical thought of what 

3 language should exactly be used to kind of get 

4 at where we are going, what you are 

5 recommending. 

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Additional 

7 comments? Bill. 

8 MR. SCHINDLER: Hi, this is Bill 

9 Schindler. 

10 If we are talking about the DOE 

11 also requests comments in the proposed network 

12 hierarchy, there is five possibilities, Wi-Fi, 

13 Ethernet, a 75 ohm coax, the RJ-11 and the 

14 other. I totally agree with the Wi-Fi and the 

15 Ethernet and I think that is the whole push in 

16 the market. Obviously, the smart TV is trying 

17 to get connected to the Ethernet either 

18 wirelessly -- to the worldwide web either 

19 through the Ethernet or the Wi-Fi. That is 

20 great. And ENERGY STAR TVs version 6 goes 

21 through quite a bit of detail of how to set 

22 that up with Wi-Fi and Ethernet. I know 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 202

1 because DOE probably wrote the procedure. It 

2 is about a page or so. 

3 I don't see any procedure in the 

4 DOE document today on anything, especially the 

5 75 ohm coax and the RJ-11 and other. My 

6 recommendation is just limit it to the Wi-Fi 

7 and the Ethernet because that is containable. 

8 It is 99.9 percent of the market. I don't 

9 know any TVs that connect to the internet 

10 through those other things. 

11 The 75 ohm coax cable is really a 

12 connection for hospitality TVs. They go 

13 through the coax in the hotel room to get to 

14 the server. A lot of those are starting to 

15 convert to Wi-Fi. And the RJ-11 and the 

16 other, I don't know what those are at all. So 

17 think it is just -- it is okay maybe to have 

18 it on the list because I guess most smart TVs 

19 are going to have Wi-Fi and Ethernet. Given 

20 the hierarchy, they are going to just have to 

21 test Wi-Fi if they have it. And probably you 

22 will never get down to three, four, and five. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 203

1 So maybe it is okay to leave it 

2 there but I'm not sure why it is there. One 

3 and two I definitely agree should be there. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

5 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, Jon Fairhurst 

6 from Sharp. 

7 I would agree. I think the 75 ohm 

8 coax cable could be confusing to some because 

9 you will typically have a 75 ohm coax cable 

10 there for your antenna but that is really an 

11 obsolete networking protocol. I think I 

12 haven't used that in well over ten years or 

13 so. And so new televisions use this and older 

14 televisions didn't have networking capability 

15 anyway. 

16 RJ-11 is usually for modems and 

17 that would be unlikely in any modern 

18 television as well. 

19 The one nice thing for other is it 

20 is future-proof because if some future 

21 networking technology comes along but I don't 

22 know of any that are likely. So yes, I would 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 204

1 recommend removing items three and four. 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

3 Have we covered this one? Great. 

4 MR. KLINKE: In that case, I would 

5 like to pass things on to Louis. He will be 

6 going over the energy efficiency metrics. 

7 MR. DESROCHES: So I will just 

8 cover very quickly the metrics in the proposed 

9 SNOPR but just to refresh your memory, in the 

10 NOPR DOE proposed the following output 

11 metrics. They included the power consumption 

12 in the on-mode, standby-active, high mode, the 

13 standby-passive mode, and the off-mode, as 

14 well as a luminance ratio. And as we have 

15 just finished discussing, some of these 

16 standby tests have changed. 

17 So DOE is proposing the following 

18 updates. Remove the standby-active, high mode 

19 as an output metric and add instead the 

20 standby-active, low mode. In addition, the 

21 power factor is now proposed to be an output 

22 metric of the test procedure. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 205

1 The SNOPR, as well as the NOPR did 

2 require power factor to be measured but it was 

3 not an output metric in the NOPR. So it has 

4 been added in the SNOPR. 

5 DOE also considered an annual 

6 energy consumption metric in the NOPR. It was 

7 an appendix to calculate the AEC. As part of 

8 the SNOPR, DOE is now incorporating the AEC as 

9 part of the output metrics. 

10 The annual energy consumption is 

11 calculated according to this equation, where 

12 you take the power values in each of the four 

13 modes, multiplied by an hour waiting, which I 

14 will get to in a minute, and you multiply by 

15 365 divided by 1,000 to get an AEC in kilowatt 

16 hours per year. 

17 So in the original DOE NOPR, DOE 

18 considered hourly weightings of 7 hours in the 

19 on-mode and 17 hours in the standby-passive, 

20 and 0 in the off-mode. This was based on 

21 analysis of Nielsen data. However, further 

22 analysis of the Nielsen data indicates that 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 206

1 five hours is more typical of an average over 

2 all televisions; whereas the NOPR considered 

3 the analysis was mostly on the primary 

4 television in the home. And so DOE now feels 

5 that five hours is a better representation of 

6 all televisions averaged over all potential 

7 rooms in the home, for example. 

8 So the new proposed SNOPR hourly 

9 weightings are 5 hours in the on-mode; 19 

10 hours in the standby-passive or standby11 active, low mode; whichever one is appropriate 

12 for a given unit; and 0 hours in the off-mode. 

13 So just to recap, the SNOPR, the 

14 output metrics, power consumption: on-mode, 

15 standby-active, low, standby-passive, and off, 

16 as well as the calculated luminance ratio, the 

17 annual energy consumption metric with updated 

18 hourly weightings and the power factor. 

19 And so at this time, DOE requests 

20 comment from interested parties on the 

21 multiple output metrics, including the annual 

22 energy consumption metric. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 207

1 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie Stephens? 

2 MR. STEPHENS: Yes, we would like 

3 to strongly suggest that DOE not convert the 

4 power consumption in watts to annual energy. 

5 Our own data has shown that annual energy 

6 depends just like it does in a heat pump or an 

7 air conditioner where annual energy depends 

8 highly on location of where the thing is. It 

9 is the same for televisions. It depends on 

10 where the television, even though it is where 

11 it is in the house, typically, and who is 

12 watching it. 

13 You are going to be -- the numbers 

14 you are going to end up with on these 

15 televisions are going to be very highly 

16 misleading, potentially. The number that goes 

17 on it will be wrong in almost every case. It 

18 will either be too low because the television 

19 we are talking about is going in the main 

20 living space where the family is and where it 

21 gets watched for seven hours a day or it is 

22 wrong because it is in somebody's bedroom who 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 208

1 watches it on average one hour a day, or in 

2 some households where it is watched one hour a 

3 week. 

4 So the problem is, when you are 

5 taking something like this and trying to come 

6 up with an annual number, you are going to be 

7 wrong in every case. And you are going to be 

8 misleading, therefore, every time you label 

9 it. 

10 We would suggest that you come up 

11 with a watt metric and leave it at that. And 

12 as things change and as people know where they 

13 are going to put it, they at least know that 

14 okay, it matters because we are going to watch 

15 this thing a lot or it doesn't matter that 

16 much because it is going to be in somebody's 

17 bedroom where it only gets watched an hour 

18 every couple of days. But I think you are 

19 going to be very misleading in the marketplace 

20 if you start putting a number like this on a 

21 television. 

22 And I would strongly -- we are 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 209

1 going to make the same recommendation for air 

2 handlers for some of the same reasons. But we 

3 think you are going to come up with a much 

4 more useful metric if you just publish an on5 mode -- you know, publish the power 

6 consumption in the modes and leave it at that. 

7 MR. DOMMU: Okay, so just a couple 

8 of points that I could get out. I appreciate 

9 the comment. 

10 One is there are multiple outputs 

11 here. So we are requiring that the output of 

12 the test procedure is the power consumption in 

13 on-mode and standby mode and off-mode. So 

14 that is part of this. 

15 By including the annual energy 

16 consumption metric what we are doing is once 

17 this becomes a final test procedure, any 

18 representation of the annual energy 

19 consumption would be made using this equation. 

20 So that helps consistency of reporting the 

21 annual energy consumption metric. 

22 Now I know you could argue well 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 210

1 does it make sense or not to report the annual 

2 energy consumption metric of a television but 

3 at least by putting this in the test 

4 procedure, what we are achieving is 

5 consistency. So one person can't claim 

6 applies -- so one entity could apply usage 

7 profile, another applies a different usage 

8 profile and could make claims that the TV has 

9 various energy consumption over the course of 

10 a year; whereas, by putting it in here, it 

11 would help improve consistency of reporting. 

12 MR. STEPHENS: I guess I am not -- 

13 I think you are going to have just as good a 

14 consistency of reporting if you are reporting 

15 on-mode watts and standby-passive or -active, 

16 low watts and off-mode watts. There is 

17 nothing inconsistent about that. But you are 

18 literally misleading people. It is like 

19 putting the annual energy consumption on a 

20 heat pump, which DOE does not do. And that is 

21 appropriate that you not do it. 

22 If I am not mistaken, the statute 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 211

1 requires not necessarily a representation of 

2 annual energy use but also efficiency, 

3 either/or. And I think efficiency here is 

4 what you should be reporting consistently not 

5 annual energy use because like I said, every 

6 number you put on a television, except by 

7 accident, is going to be wrong for the 

8 television that somebody buys because you have 

9 no idea where they are going to put that and 

10 how many hours they are going to use it. And 

11 that may change over time. 

12 And it has changed over time. And 

13 Nielsen may not be entirely appropriately 

14 measuring what they measure. I am sure they 

15 are getting television viewing. I am not sure 

16 they are getting all the other functions that 

17 people use the television for. 

18 In any case, in all the cases we 

19 have seen, we think you are going to be 

20 misleading people by publishing that number. 

21 We would rather figure it out ourselves, based 

22 on the watts that we have, based on our 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 212

1 knowledge of how many hours each TV in the 

2 house may be used and we will take care of the 

3 annual energy use number if you just give us 

4 the means to do that. Because you know, one 

5 number on a television is just plain 

6 misleading. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: We have a couple of 

8 individuals that would like to join us via the 

9 web. Jeff Howell, you are first. 

10 MR. HOWELL: Yes, I would only add 

11 that we are already required to report annual 

12 energy consumption on the FTC energy guide 

13 label. And while I agree that that number may 

14 not be perfect for every TV in use in the 

15 United States at a particular time, I think it 

16 is representative of if you are looking at two 

17 different models of TVs, the numbers are 

18 representative of which one uses more power 

19 consumption. Thank you. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

21 Verena, you are next. 

22 MS. RADULOVIC: Hi, can you hear 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 213

1 me okay? 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. 

3 MS. RADULOVIC: Great. I would 

4 just echo what Jeff had asked as well. I was 

5 just curious to see how does this proposed AEC 

6 compare to what needs to be reported on the 

7 FTC energy guide label for TVs. 

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Jeremy. 

9 MR. DOMMU: Yes, I don't know the 

10 exact usage profile that the FTC uses. 

11 MR. DESROCHES It is five. 

12 MR. DOMMU: It is five. Okay, so 

13 then this is consistent with what is currently 

14 being put on the FTC energy guide label. 

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Go ahead, Bill. 

16 Get closer. 

17 MR. SCHINDLER: It is, except the 

18 19 standby-passive -- 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Bill, get the 

20 microphone on and get it closer to you. 

21 MR. SCHINDLER: Sorry. This is 

22 Bill Schindler. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 214

1 Yes, the FTC requires 5 hours in 

2 the on-mode, which is the same with DOE, but 

3 the 19 hours of standby is only passive 

4 standby because they don't -- at the time no 

5 one was measuring this active, low. 

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Jon, do you 

7 want to add on? 

8 MR. FAIRHURST: Yes, I was at the 

9 FTC public meeting when this was debated and 

10 they chose at that time to do the average 

11 annual energy use as compared to wattage or 

12 these other numbers. And there was debate 

13 about doing that but I think that was settled 

14 by the FTC. And the FTC did have a second 

15 comment period most recently. I don't know 

16 that they -- I believe the comment period has 

17 closed and they haven't yet responded to that. 

18 So it seems to me that for what 

19 the most appropriate thing to report to 

20 consumers that is really an FTC topic and then 

21 how to measure is what we are discussing here. 

22 The last thing I would like to 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 215

1 mention is that at retail, because consumers 

2 can see the same measure from television to 

3 television, whether it is watts or dollars or 

4 whatever, it does level the playing field, so 

5 that they can make an educated choice and I 

6 would hope that the consumer is smart enough 

7 to know that if they watch TV a lot, well the 

8 number will be higher. In fact the FTC label 

9 even says that, that it is just 

10 representative. And if it is going to go in a 

11 back bedroom, then your annual energy usage 

12 will be lower. 

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Bijit. 

14 MR. KUNDU: Bijit Kundu with 

15 Energy Solutions. I fully support the FTC 

16 having labeling on annual energy use. I think 

17 -- I don't know if this is actually the case 

18 but you know, you could know that this is 

19 based on an average of five hours of viewing 

20 per day. And so in terms of representing and 

21 that, we are okay with that being on a label 

22 with the FTC. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 216

1 You know, this is not -- annual 

2 energy consumption isn't a measurement that 

3 the test procedure does. You know, what the 

4 test procedure does is measure the different 

5 modes and this is a calculation. 

6 So I would think that this annual 

7 energy consumption value would be more 

8 appropriate for just the FTC label, rather 

9 than the actual DOE test procedure. 

10 MR. DOMMU: Okay, I appreciate the 

11 comments. I will make one or two additional 

12 points just to consider as you guys give this 

13 a little bit more thought. 

14 So by putting the AEC metric in 

15 our test procedure, then FTC would have to 

16 adopt what our AEC is in the test procedure. 

17 So that helps consistency. If it was out of 

18 the DOE test procedure, then FTC would then 

19 have to come up with their own usage profile, 

20 as I believe it. 

21 Do you want to? 

22 MS. PINTO: Yes, this is Francine 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 217

1 Pinto. The FTC is required to use our test 

2 procedure. We do the test procedure. They 

3 are in charge of the labeling. So if it is 

4 going to be on a label, they need to have a 

5 test procedure and ours it the one that they 

6 have to use. 

7 MR. DOMMU: So then the other 

8 thing is if we don't have AEC as part of our 

9 test procedure, then every entity, whether it 

10 is a utility rebate program, a state program, 

11 a voluntary program, FTC would then be, if 

12 they want to have annual energy consumption as 

13 part of their metric, then they would be 

14 responsible for providing the usage profile. 

15 If it is not part of our test procedure, then 

16 that is the inconsistency that I was trying to 

17 get at before. 

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Bill. 

19 MR. BELT: Thank you. Jeremy, 

20 what you just said, so let me ask. If the FTC 

21 had a usage profile, which they do today, 

22 would other entities be required to use 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 218

1 theirs? 

2 MR. DOMMU: I would have to get 

3 back to you on that. I don't believe so but I 

4 don't want to speak on the record until I know 

5 that. 

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie Stephens. 

7 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

8 We have done a substantial amount of work in 

9 the television area in recent years. We don't 

10 use their usage profile, necessarily. We do 

11 our own research and we find out what the 

12 actual energy use and energy savings are at 

13 any given level for any given television. And 

14 we do that by finding out how many televisions 

15 there are per household and how many hours 

16 each one is used. And we actually go and get 

17 the data to convert it. And it is changing. 

18 Just in 2007, for instance, we 

19 looked at how many televisions there are per 

20 household and there were 2.6. Just this last 

21 year, we looked at the same thing and it is 

22 2.3. So things are shifting. And if you want 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 219

1 to really start taking all that stuff into 

2 account, we are really, quite frankly, better 

3 prepared and in a better position to take 

4 account of regional numbers than DOE is. That 

5 is like publishing. You know, DOE also uses 

6 to -- when they go to source energy, they use 

7 a national number. It is utterly irrelevant 

8 in most of our service territories for our 

9 utilities. And what it has done is it has 

10 created a lot of confusion where we live 

11 because that number you are using is not 

12 relevant for most of the people where we live. 

13 And so we are not all that pleased 

14 about that because we have to spend a lot of 

15 money to un-confuse people and if you publish 

16 the wrong numbers on this stuff, we are going 

17 to have to spend a lot of time and energy 

18 undoing all those numbers and telling people 

19 what the right numbers are for our region as 

20 we understand them and as we have measured 

21 them in the field. 

22 So it is really not helpful for us 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 220

1 for you to put the wrong number on things 

2 because we have to spend a lot of money and a 

3 lot of effort to change them for our purposes. 

4 MR. DOMMU: So do you disapprove 

5 of the usage profile? Is there a better 

6 number that you are suggesting? 

7 MR. STEPHENS: Well we will have a 

8 usage profile for you, like I said, in about a 

9 month. We will have some data for you that is 

10 fairly recent but we also would suggest to you 

11 that it is changing, which is why we go out 

12 and measure this stuff pretty regularly to 

13 catch all those changes. People are not 

14 watching television in the same way they used 

15 to or watching content, I guess I should say, 

16 in the same way they used to. And that is 

17 shifting and it is shifting fast enough that 

18 your numbers will be out of date probably 

19 within five years. 

20 So we would highly recommend that 

21 you not put those numbers on there. We think 

22 the watts that you come up with in the power 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 221

1 consumption of a television will allow 

2 consumers to adequately and fairly compare one 

3 television against another for any given size. 

4 And you don't need the annual energy 

5 consumption for a consumer to pick the more 

6 efficient television. 

7 But we need to know, we need to 

8 understand what those numbers are in order to 

9 do our power planning and understand what 

10 these things use. And we know how to do that. 

11 And we will do that, given the tools. And we 

12 think your test procedure will provide those 

13 tools. But we would recommend that you stop 

14 short of misleading folks at that point. 

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Bill. 

16 MR. BELT: Charlie, what do you do 

17 with this information you gather? You use it 

18 internally? 

19 MR. STEPHENS: Oh, it is available 

20 publicly on our website. 

21 MR. BELT: But how is it used? 

22 MR. STEPHENS: We actually look at 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 222

1 how people consume energy and what devices in 

2 their homes, lighting, televisions, consumer 

3 electronics, all the devices that we measure, 

4 and we use it to understand trends in power 

5 consumption. We use it to inform our energy 

6 efficiency programs for how and whether we 

7 should be providing incentives for the more 

8 efficient stuff and how big the incentive 

9 should be. 

10 And we try to understand when we 

11 don't have to do that anymore, where the 

12 market has been moved far enough that we can 

13 move on and find larger targets for our 

14 investments. But we use this in a lot of 

15 different ways. 

16 MR. BROOKMAN: final comments on 

17 all of this? We are moving on. 

18 MR. DESROCHES: Next up is a 

19 sampling plan. So to ensure the consistency 

20 and accuracy of any values that are reported 

21 as part of the test procedure, DOE proposes 

22 the following sampling plan. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 223

1 A minimum sample size of two TVs 

2 shall be used in all testing. And any 

3 represented on-mode power value shall be the 

4 greater than or equal to the higher of the 

5 mean of the sample or the upper confidence 

6 limit divided by 1.05. The upper confidence 

7 limit is defined by this equation, where t0.95 

8 is the t statistic for the 95 percent one9 tailed confidence interval for n minus 1 

10 degrees of freedom. And just to repeat again, 

11 this is just for on-mode power consumption. 

12 Similarly for non-on-mode power 

13 consumption, DOE proposes again that the 

14 represented value shall be the greater than or 

15 equal to the higher of the mean or the upper 

16 confidence limit divided by 1.10. Where in 

17 this case, the upper confidence limit is 

18 defined by the equation shown here, where 

19 t0.90 is the t statistic for the 90 percent 

20 on-tailed confidence internal with n minus 1 

21 degrees of freedom. 

22 So at this time, DOE requests 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 224

1 comment regarding this proposed sampling plan. 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Bill. 

3 MR. SCHINDLER: Hi, this is Bill 

4 Schindler. 

5 I believe that ENERGY STAR and 

6 CEC, at this point, only requires a single 

7 representative sample to be measured. And I 

8 see people shaking their head, yes. 

9 This would essentially double the 

10 amount because the sampling requirement is 

11 two. Is that correct? So you know it is -- I 

12 don't know that it is necessary to double the 

13 amount of testing for this. You know there 

14 are clearly verification procedures that all 

15 the regulating agencies have. And each one is 

16 different. It depends upon what type of 

17 enforcement and verification they want to 

18 perform. 

19 But as far as the initial test, we 

20 are in favor of just having the individual 

21 regulatory bodies decide what the numbers are 

22 required. But apparently, because they now 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 225

1 have to use the DOE site -- I mean 

2 requirement, you feel it necessary to specify 

3 that sampling number. But just bear in mind 

4 that two is twice the amount of effort that is 

5 going to have to go into the testing. So from 

6 a cost standpoint, it doubles. 

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

8 Charlie. 

9 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

10 We are supportive of the proposal. So I don't 

11 know of any products where you test fewer than 

12 two. So I think that is a reasonable thing to 

13 do and we are supportive of what we see here 

14 right now. 

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

16 Additional -- Jon. 

17 MR. FAIRHURST: I have I think two 

18 concerns. One is I especially think that 

19 testing two televisions for standby mode is 

20 very much not needed. You are looking at such 

21 low power levels and low variability that that 

22 is a cost that could easily be avoided without 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 226

1 much difficulty. 

2 And then the other concern is the 

3 specifying the divisor of 1.05. In general, 

4 the manufacturer knows the variations within 

5 their line. We have got I think there are two 

6 issues here. There could be some variability 

7 in actual test from different labs or 

8 different times of the day, I don't know what. 

9 And then there are the variabilities from 

10 unit to unit. So a manufacturer will tend to 

11 know that if does a given model need more 

12 margin to where when we publish something we 

13 are assured that the next television that is 

14 tested will fall within that limit. If we 

15 apply the divisor of 1.05 to all, then we are 

16 assuming that all models have the same 

17 variation, unit to unit. And that might not 

18 be the case. 

19 So what I am concerned about is 

20 some stacking of margins. So you measure 

21 multiple televisions. We do the divisor. And 

22 then are there some other worst case 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 227

1 situations and then variations within the 

2 test? So in other words, how conservative 

3 does the manufacturer now have to be to 

4 produce televisions that are going to be 

5 repeatedly meeting what is published? 

6 So for instance, if there is a 

7 large amount of variation built in, I think 

8 Bill in a previous conversation you had used 

9 the thing of if the cop's speed gun on the 

10 freeway is plus or minus ten miles an hour, to 

11 make sure that you don't get a ticket on a 60 

12 mile an hour road, you need to drive at 50 

13 miles an hour. And so overall, we are 

14 concerned that the end solution here be 

15 realistic and not give an extra burden such 

16 that if there is a requirement for a 50 watt 

17 television by let's say EPA for a given thing 

18 that we don't have to start making 40 watt 

19 televisions in order to ensure that we can 

20 pass it. 

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

22 Charlie? 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 228

1 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. 

2 We have been through this with a lot of other 

3 manufacturers, with a lot of other products 

4 when it gets into compliance. And I think in 

5 the end they discover that it actually isn't 

6 quite as bad as they think. Because when they 

7 require you to test two TVs, when you go to 

8 compliance testing, they will have to test two 

9 as well. And so the requirement isn't really 

10 that no TV can exceed that, it is that if you 

11 do the test, the same test that the 

12 manufacturers have to do, does it come out 

13 within compliance. So you can actually end up 

14 with a TV that might not quite comply but that 

15 isn't the end of the game. It doesn't mean 

16 you don't comply overall. 

17 So I think you will find when you 

18 get into this, it is less onerous but it is 

19 always up to the manufacturer. We have talked 

20 to AHAM over and over. They get to be as 

21 conservative as they think they want to be in 

22 putting a label on the TV. And it is up to 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 229

1 them to decide what is safe, based on their 

2 own testing and what kind of variation they 

3 see. And to some extent, that is a good 

4 reason to test more than one. 

5 MR. FAIRHURST: This is Jon 

6 Fairhurst from Sharp again. Internally, of 

7 course, many sets may be tested in a more 

8 casual way in that it is not for compliance so 

9 it can be done more quickly and easily, as 

10 needed, to characterize the sets. 

11 A challenge that we have with EPA 

12 ENERGY STAR is that they are compliance bodies 

13 and third-party testing houses. So every time 

14 we have to do another TV, there is real money 

15 involved, rather than having one person work a 

16 little bit longer on a given day. 

17 So that is another concern we 

18 have. 

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

20 Bill? 

21 MR. SCHINDLER: Yes, I believe it 

22 says zero tolerance. You can't go over the 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 230

1 limit with ENERGY STAR. Some of these 

2 regulations are different terms but most of 

3 them don't give you any tolerance. So we 

4 actually measure many, many units in the 

5 course of production but then we only supply 

6 one to the outside laboratory for their final 

7 blessing that they stand behind. Before we 

8 report the number, we then go back to the 

9 statistics that we have taken over the line 

10 and incorporate the sufficient tolerance so 

11 that we never go over that zero tolerance that 

12 is allowed by the EPA. 

13 So we actually under report or 

14 let's say we over report the power to make 

15 sure that it never goes over that number. We 

16 build a lot of line statistics into what -- 

17 and so the 1.05, I don't know if that is 

18 right. It depends upon the line. It depends 

19 upon the technology involved. So we have to, 

20 with our engineers, figure out what that 

21 number is so that we don't go over the line. 

22 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 231

1 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie. Yes, I 

2 will throw one more thing in here, too. You 

3 are talking about EPA and ENERGY STAR and that 

4 sort of thing. But remember that every one of 

5 those televisions is in compliance with 

6 whatever DOE might specify. The only ones 

7 where this really matters are the ones that 

8 are at the very bottom and so close to the 

9 maximum allowed energy use that it might be a 

10 problem. 

11 Any other television that is more 

12 efficient than that, there are no monetary 

13 stakes involved, except for testing costs. 

14 You can report anything you want and they all 

15 comply. You know if it is 20 percent more 

16 efficient than what any standard might comply, 

17 whether it is ENERGY STAR or anybody else's 

18 standard, you are not going to be in violation 

19 of anything if it is 20 percent better. It 

20 will cost you to test it but the only real 

21 issue comes in where you are at the very 

22 bottom of the scale and you are so close to 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 232

1 non-compliance that it becomes an issue. And 

2 I would think that would only be a very small 

3 fraction of your line. 

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon. 

5 MR. FAIRHURST: Actually, DOE 

6 isn't setting a compliance level with this 

7 ruling. Right? 

8 But for EPA ENERGY STAR, let's say 

9 it is very difficult, for instance, to qualify 

10 for the most efficient. So even an excellent 

11 TV might be on the edge and then the 

12 manufacturer wants to guarantee that when we 

13 do qualify for most efficient and then ENERGY 

14 STAR says we want to do a random sample 

15 validation that you do, that they do a random 

16 sample and we still pass. 

17 So that is why this is interesting 

18 and important for all televisions, not just 

19 the least efficient. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Jeremy. 

21 MR. DOMMU: So one point. I mean, 

22 obviously the reason we have the sampling plan 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 233

1 is we want to reduce variation of the test 

2 results. So obviously by having at least two, 

3 we are going to be reducing variation, as 

4 compared to only testing one. 

5 The other point I would make would 

6 be the sampling, as Louis said, calls for the 

7 represented value of power consumption for 

8 which a consumer would favor lower values 

9 would be the greater of or equal to the higher 

10 of the mean or the upper confidence level 

11 divided by the 1.05. 

12 So unless there is significant 

13 variation between those two test results, in 

14 most cases, it is going to be the mean of the 

15 two that you are reporting as the 

16 representation of the representative value. 

17 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Jon. 

18 MR. FAIRHURST: One question for 

19 DOE. Let's say that you just do the mean. 

20 Imagine that we have removed the 1.05 divisor. 

21 And so a given television set, let's say 

22 measured by DOE, says 50 watts would be the -- 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 234

1 is that what you shall report is 50 watts or 

2 the minimum you shall report? 

3 So in other words, if a 

4 manufacturer says well it is 50 but looking at 

5 my own statistical information, I know that I 

6 have got some variation and I actually want to 

7 add a little bit more padding. Can a 

8 manufacturer then say no, we want to report 55 

9 watts on these televisions to ensure 

10 compliance across the board? 

11 MR. DOMMU: Yes, so it is the 

12 greater than or equal to the higher of the 

13 mean or the upper confidence limit divided by 

14 1.05. 

15 MR. FAIRHURST: Okay. 

16 MR. DOMMU: So it could be greater 

17 than or equal to. The higher of those two. 

18 MR. FAIRHURST: Okay. Very good. 

19 Thanks. 

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, I think now 

21 we are moving on. 

22 MR. DESROCHES: Last we will just 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 235

1 cover the rounding requirements in 

2 representing these values. 

3 So all values made for 

4 representation shall be rounded. And an 

5 important point is that all the input values 

6 that go into the AEC calculation, those input 

7 values are what you get from the sampling plan 

8 and they are, themselves, rounded prior to 

9 calculating the AEC. 

10 So in the SNOPR, these are the 

11 rounding requirements. For the modes of 

12 operation, values of 10 watts or less shall be 

13 rounded to the nearest hundredth of a watt. 

14 And values greater than 10 watts and up to a 

15 100 watts shall be rounded to the nearest 

16 tenth of a watt. And values greater than 100 

17 watts shall be rounded to the nearest watt. 

18 And then as part of the AEC 

19 calculation, values less than 100 kilowatt 

20 hours shall be rounded to the nearest tenth of 

21 a kilowatt hour and values greater than 100 

22 kilowatt hours shall be rounded to the nearest 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 236

1 kilowatt hour. And again, the AEC uses as 

2 inputs value that are already rounded. 

3 So DOE requests comment on the 

4 proposed rounding requirements. 

5 MR. BROOKMAN: Jon, no comment? 

6 How does the IEC do it? 

7 MR. FAIRHURST: I don't believe 

8 that the IEC requires any specific rounding. 

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Additional 

10 comments on rounding requirements? 

11 Jeff Howell, did I leave you out 

12 of the queue? 

13 MR. HOWELL: No, that's fine. My 

14 point was covered. 

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. I 

16 didn't think I did. 

17 Okay, so I think that then, for my 

18 part, that ends what I was intending to do 

19 here this afternoon and I will turn it back to 

20 Jeremy. I thank you all. This was a very 

21 productive meeting. Back to Jeremy Dommu. 

22 MR. DOMMU: Hi, everyone. So, 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 237

1 yes, as Doug just said, we have finished the 

2 formal presentation. I just have a couple 

3 more slides with just some last minute 

4 comments. But before I get to them, I do want 

5 to give everyone in attendance and on the 

6 webinar an opportunity to bring up any other 

7 issues or any concerns with any aspect of the 

8 SNOPR that haven't already been covered? 

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Jon. 

10 MR. FAIRHURST: I believe that 

11 there is one important missing item, which is 

12 the automatic brightness control when 

13 measuring luminance of the default mode. It 

14 is not specified that the ABC be disabled. 

15 That would be one way to do it. I don't 

16 believe that is specified. Another way is to 

17 require that 300 lux, I believe that the 

18 current way for ENERGY STAR -- I can't recall 

19 if ENERGY STAR disables or uses 300 lux. Do 

20 you remember Bill? 

21 MR. SCHINDLER: They disable but 

22 if you can't disable, they put in 300 lux. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 238

1 You are talking about the luminance measure? 

2 MR. FAIRHURST: For the luminance 

3 measurement, right. 

4 So in that case where you -- 

5 MR. BROOKMAN: Repeat that. He is 

6 not on the record. So repeat back what he 

7 said. 

8 MR. FAIRHURST: Very good. So 

9 what Bill Schindler just said is that to his 

10 recollection for ENERGY STAR, when testing the 

11 luminance in the default home mode, you 

12 disable ABC. If it cannot be disabled through 

13 the menus, then you apply 300 lux to the ABC 

14 sensor. 

15 This does bring up a bit of a 

16 challenge when you are measuring luminance in 

17 that the current method, unless you use a tube 

18 or a shroud between the screen and the light 

19 source will pollute the luminance from the 

20 screen. You will have potentially a 

21 reflection of the light source on the ABC back 

22 to the luminance meter. So this is another 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 239

1 area that needs to be considered. 

2 In IEC and CEA right now we do 

3 allow for a tube or a shroud, specifically for 

4 this application. 

5 MR. BROOKMAN: I see. Okay. 

6 Okay, any other comments here as we move -- 

7 MR. KLINKE: Sorry. This is Kurt 

8 Klinke with Navigant. In regards to the 

9 luminance test, we actually do specify in 

10 section 5.7.1 the ABC sensor -- at the very 

11 bottom of that section we say the ABC sensor 

12 must be disabled during this test specifically 

13 for luminance testing as part of the 

14 regulatory language. 

15 MR. FAIRHURST: Thank you. I 

16 missed that. 

17 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Bill. 

18 MR. SCHINDLER: Yes, that's good. 

19 And do you mean that it is acceptable to 

20 through the menu disable it or putting 300 lux 

21 in, in the case that the menu doesn't have a 

22 disabling feature? I mean that is why we 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 240

1 spelled out both scenarios. 

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Kurt, back to you. 

3 Anthony. 

4 MR. ROTOLO: So we actually don't 

5 distinguish between the two in this 

6 specification. I think we could think about 

7 this a little bit more and see if that would 

8 be appropriate. 

9 MR. SCHINDLER: Thank you. 

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Jon. 

11 MR. FAIRHURST: Briefly. I think 

12 when using the 300 lux or greater than the 

13 specifics of how the light was applied for 

14 these very particular 3, 12, 35, and 100 might 

15 not apply. For instance, you wouldn't 

16 necessarily need IR filters and so forth. The 

17 idea is simply to saturate the circuit. 

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, these are 

19 useful final comments. Additional final 

20 comments? Then back to Jeremy. 

21 MR. DOMMU: Okay, great. So there 

22 is a couple slides here, really quickly. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 241

1 Again, this is the slide of how to submit 

2 comments. You could refer to this later on as 

3 you are drafting your comments. The same 

4 information is available on the DOE rulemaking 

5 website of where to email it. Comment closes 

6 April 26th. How to send it by mail, submit it 

7 on regulations.gov docket. 

8 Again, here are some links to some 

9 of the relevant web pages that has more 

10 information on the rulemaking activities and 

11 additional information. 

12 And then finally here is my 

13 contact information and the contact 

14 information of Celia Sher in the General 

15 Counsel Office. Francine is here today 

16 because Celia is on maternity leave. But if 

17 there is questions, you could contact me and 

18 if there is any legal questions, I will 

19 certainly be able to get you some input on 

20 those as well. 

21 So thank you all so much for all 

22 the valuable insight that you have provided 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 242

1 today. It is 2:30 and we are wrapping up a 

2 bit ahead of schedule. I recommend you go 

3 check out the cherry blossoms if you have some 

4 time to kill, a ten minute walk away. 

5 And thank you all so much for 

6 being here. I very much appreciate your 

7 comments today and the comments that you will 

8 be making on the docket. 

9 Thank you. 

10 MR. BROOKMAN: The last page of 

11 your packet has an evaluation form. So please 

12 take a minute and fill out the evaluation 

13 form. 

14 Thanks to all. Safe travels. 

15 (Whereupon, at 2:32 p.m., the 

16 foregoing meeting was adjourned.) 

17

18

19

20

21

22
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 243

A

ABC 18:1 19:13,18

19:22 21:16 22:3

22:12,15,16,18,22

23:5 24:14,17,22

25:3,4,9,11,15

28:4,19,19 29:3

32:18 37:17 38:22

39:1,17 40:9,17

41:1 42:2,7 43:9

45:14 46:19 47:9

52:10 56:11 61:11

64:4,15 65:17,19

66:12,21 67:15,18

68:1,11,14,16

69:8,11 74:8,12

75:10 80:4,9

88:11,15,18

143:16 184:6,8,11

237:14 238:12,13

238:21 239:10,11

ABC's 38:22

able 13:18 66:12

97:18 148:2

177:17 241:19

absolutely 149:20

acceptable 72:10

90:16 112:19

144:7 156:8

239:19

acceptance 171:11

172:22 173:16

174:13,19,22

175:6

accepting 13:12

access 125:1

accessed 16:12

accessible 10:8

111:19

accident 211:7

account 129:7

219:2,4

accounted 192:11

accuracy 3:14 8:18

18:10 171:3,5,7

171:14,17,22

172:9,12 173:7

222:20

accurate 72:9

140:9 180:14

182:19 183:8

accurately 177:22

achieve 39:20

achieving 210:4

acknowledge 105:7

115:19

acknowledged

118:3

acquire 23:21

acquisition 176:2

177:9,11

Act 97:1 98:9

acting 43:1

action 34:13

165:13

active 18:14,16,19

185:7 186:22

188:7 199:3

206:11 210:15

214:5

actively 15:9

176:20 183:12

185:15

activities 4:18 5:1,5

13:2 15:4 241:10

actual 12:1 14:13

48:15 63:12 74:12

78:9 82:17 141:16

167:19 216:9

218:12 226:7

ad 170:10

add 74:16,18

102:22 103:8

104:22 116:20

128:2,8,10,17

130:10 194:19

204:19 212:10

214:7 234:7

added 18:9,18

87:22 88:2,22

89:6 162:3 172:11

205:4

adding 71:3 106:10

addition 42:2 75:22

89:10 93:10 97:19

102:19 104:2

112:2 144:22

176:20 184:20

185:8,22 204:20

additional 11:12

13:7,15 14:21

15:19 16:1 17:4,5

17:19 20:17 21:9

22:11 23:9 36:11

37:2 62:9 63:8

79:7 87:16,19

88:2 89:12 105:18

114:2 127:13

128:17 137:7

140:20,21 143:13

143:15 146:3,19

150:12 154:17

163:11 164:22

165:5 178:21

179:17 180:18

195:8,9 198:10

201:6 216:11

225:16 236:9

240:19 241:11

additionally 15:17

21:19 23:22

144:19

address 57:11 58:4

104:15 132:18

156:21 167:18

192:16 193:4

196:20

addressed 181:9

add-on 121:7

adequate 194:22

adequately 221:2

adjacent 21:2 22:2

23:7,12 24:20

26:1 27:9,12,18

27:20 28:2 38:7,8

39:12,15 44:4,6

50:4 60:7 75:8,16

79:3

adjourned 242:16

adopt 216:16

adopted 12:20

advertised 159:14

advertisement

138:10

advisable 139:12

advocate 127:12

advocates 113:3

AEC 64:13 205:7,8

205:15 213:5

216:14,16 217:8

235:6,9,18 236:1

affect 24:8

affiliation 6:3

afraid 193:6

afternoon 236:19

agencies 224:15

agenda 7:19,21 8:1

8:21 11:2 14:14

ago 96:10,18

agree 32:8 63:4

165:9 183:7

193:13 194:15

201:14 203:3,7

212:13

agreed 22:9

AHAM 228:20

ahead 5:19 75:3

76:6,9 93:4 147:1

213:15 242:2

air 9:18 164:11

207:7 209:1

align 28:19 143:1

aligned 28:21

aligning 160:11

alignment 29:7

36:5

alive 99:21

ALLEN 2:7

Alliance 6:17

allow 31:2 91:16

131:21 132:17

142:3 145:16

146:2 157:3 221:1

239:3

allowable 73:3

109:11

allowance 36:20

allowed 40:8,16

46:16,19 90:7

230:12 231:9

allowing 19:22

46:15 47:8 71:22

134:10 145:15

allows 46:13 99:20

alluded 55:11

alter 143:11 176:22

altered 151:17

alternate 144:20

alternative 169:17

ambient 119:2,7

ambivalent 136:5

America 6:10

96:12 168:11

amount 40:3 43:11

43:18 54:9 69:7

153:13,18 154:1

175:11 177:8,13

218:8 224:10,13

225:4 227:7

analog 168:7,12

169:7,13

analogue 12:21

43:14,15

analysis 13:7 14:22

20:6,11 21:15,16

22:1 26:15 27:4

27:22 40:6 42:16

61:21 62:10 72:7

72:15 78:6,20

79:14 81:16 84:7

85:4,10 205:21,22

206:3

angel 174:13

angle 22:17 24:16

44:7 171:11 173:1

173:16 174:8,19

175:1,3,7

annex 178:15

annual 19:2 205:5

205:10 206:17,21

207:4,5,7 208:6

209:15,18,21

210:1,19 211:2,5

212:3,11 214:11

215:11,16 216:1,6
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 244

217:12 221:4

anomalous 175:15

answer 48:6 56:15

66:14 157:1 189:5

antenna 203:10

Anthony 1:20 2:3

3:9,10,12 7:6

19:12,15 33:9

49:1 51:7,19

71:17 79:20 80:18

82:18 87:2 120:8

122:1 141:5

159:16 163:8

174:9 192:13

240:3

anybody 8:2 9:6

167:10 231:17

anymore 222:11

anyone's 9:19

anyway 29:18 46:5

62:19 92:21 105:3

112:14 149:4

191:10 200:16

203:15

apparently 155:2

224:22

appears 131:3

191:21 193:6

appendix 81:22

205:7

Appliance 2:3 6:6

application 239:4

applied 130:12

240:13

applies 173:1,21

210:6,7

apply 172:17

177:11 210:6

226:15 238:13

240:15

applying 45:4

appreciate 32:19

105:15 106:11

140:1 145:14

165:22 209:8

216:10 242:6

approach 67:14

68:10 137:18

177:7,15

approaches 177:4

appropriate 172:21

174:2,4,15 175:11

176:8 188:12

194:12 206:11

210:21 214:19

216:8 240:8

appropriately

195:17 211:13

approximately

65:7 86:6

APR 29:5

April 1:6 4:9 12:6

13:11 35:22 36:1

241:6

area 29:16 48:16

48:16 91:11

185:14 195:20

196:13 218:9

239:1

areas 17:9 19:7

170:7 175:12

198:1

argue 209:22

arguments 70:14

136:2

Armstrong 1:13

6:22,22

arose 48:22 101:15

125:19

arrive 69:21

arriving 67:12

artificial 47:3

artificially 194:1

Ashley 1:13 6:20

6:22

asked 155:15 213:4

aspect 116:22

237:7

aspects 15:15

assess 82:10 83:13

84:13

associated 39:11

Association 1:13

167:9

assume 73:12

100:18 123:22

174:17

assuming 69:3

226:16

assumption 54:4

assured 226:13

ATSC 98:22,22

100:19

Attached 25:1

attachment 78:15

attempt 69:9

attempted 176:4

attendance 237:5

attended 135:2

attention 131:3

attractive 119:3

191:5

audio 137:4

audio-video 168:2

Australia 113:15

117:1,5

automatic 3:8 8:10

15:21 16:3,7

17:17 237:12

automatically

161:18

auxiliary 56:2

91:15 92:3 99:20

availability 29:20

32:10 35:3

available 9:17 14:1

16:11 30:12 33:5

33:17,22 34:4,4,7

34:19 49:6 52:11

78:12 82:14,17

84:21 86:10 98:7

98:9 103:13 127:9

131:17,17 138:13

151:18,21 153:10

162:4 169:21

170:16 177:14

178:16 221:19

241:4

Avenue 1:9

average 26:7,17

27:6,15,19 52:8

64:4,10,18 66:11

80:5,10 81:18

83:18 150:4

153:13,15,18

154:4 160:12

206:1 208:1

214:10 215:19

averaged 206:6

averaging 181:4

182:4

avoided 225:22

aware 67:4 94:8,15

94:19 95:12

199:21

Awareness 2:3

awful 118:20

A-F-T-E-R-N-O-...

167:1

a.m 1:9 4:2 77:7,8

B

back 44:10,19

50:12 51:9 57:20

60:5 75:7 76:13

77:5,7 86:20 87:2

96:10 97:8 111:14

112:13 116:14

123:4 128:8 135:2

137:4,5 138:13,22

138:22 139:14

147:14 155:22

156:11,15 157:8

162:16 167:3

170:22 175:1

198:15 215:11

218:3 230:8

236:19,21 238:6

238:21 240:2,20

background 13:20

48:21 61:22 94:13

124:10 125:17

backup 146:11

bad 57:4 138:21

228:6

badge 76:17

Baltimore 4:12

band 46:18 55:6,13

55:18 56:12 58:22

bands 59:1

BANTON 2:2

bar 133:20,20

152:20 175:12

181:20

bars 27:8,9 119:6

163:21 164:2

198:19

based 17:13 23:3,8

24:1 27:22 37:3

40:6 41:3 44:8

50:1 58:3 61:15

62:9 63:18 67:8

69:20 72:1 79:16

102:5,19 143:12

143:20 150:4

154:9 156:14

158:20 176:6

177:1 205:20

211:21,22 215:19

229:1

basic 81:3,12

basically 74:5

84:19 122:14

135:5 162:3 194:5

basis 20:5

bass 195:14 196:3

batteries 91:13,15

91:15 92:4,19

battery 91:18,18

92:1,7,9,10,12,14

99:15,20 100:4

BD 152:9,10

beam 174:6

bear 225:3

bearing 13:14

beautiful 195:15

bedroom 207:22

208:17 215:11

began 13:1,3 25:18

behalf 6:14

belief 51:21 74:13

believe 31:1,7

32:13 44:3,11

45:4 46:6,14

50:17 51:14 54:7
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 245

54:8 60:15 74:6

88:8 95:3 96:14

108:5 122:17

123:11 164:13

167:18 168:18

174:14 181:6

184:4,6 214:16

216:20 218:3

224:5 229:21

236:7 237:10,16

237:17

believed 40:4

believes 22:5 23:4,9

23:22 41:19 59:8

69:21 184:21

Belt 1:13 167:8,8

217:19 221:16,21

beneath 27:13 66:6

beneficial 22:6

Berkeley 1:14,19

7:3,9

best 2:7 29:22

35:21 71:12,13

131:4,4 146:8

better 54:12 138:10

159:14 206:5

219:2,3 220:5

231:19

beverage 77:2

beyond 36:14,21

bezel 25:5

big 34:5 46:2

200:17 222:8

bigger 96:11

biggest 135:19

Bijit 1:16 6:13 52:2

52:3 63:2,3,9 94:6

100:9 116:7 180:4

180:5 215:13,14

Bill 1:13,20 6:7

32:5,6 54:14,15

73:1,2 96:7,8 99:8

137:8,9 147:1,3

154:22 156:7

165:5,6 167:8,18

178:22 179:1

180:19 183:7

184:3 201:7,8

213:15,19,22

217:18 221:15

224:2,3 227:8

229:20 237:20

238:9 239:17

Bill's 163:18

bit 13:7 38:16 41:9

46:8 47:1,21 48:1

48:5 52:20 54:12

75:15 78:5 82:16

90:1,21 93:6

120:5 125:17

143:5 173:14

183:6 201:21

216:13 229:16

234:7 238:15

240:7 242:2

black 108:6 134:2

160:16 175:12

blessing 230:7

block 67:20

blocking 40:7 42:1

42:6 69:12 70:1

80:16,17,21 86:14

blocks 67:17

blossoms 242:3

Blu 144:3 152:15

153:3,5 155:5

161:22 163:18

blue 27:8 38:8 41:7

41:13 152:20

bluer 45:12

Blu-ray 151:11,14

151:19,21 152:6,9

152:15,16,21

153:9,14,17,19

154:4,6 155:8,10

155:20 157:17

161:15 162:2,7,18

163:5,6,12 164:17

165:14

board 234:10

bodies 224:21

229:12

bolded 141:20

BOLIOLI 2:2

boost 195:14 196:3

born 118:1

bottom 82:6 83:5

84:8 85:17 120:13

133:17,20 134:2,3

138:5 231:8,22

239:11

box 11:17 32:1 36:4

67:3 81:21 82:3,3

82:5,6 85:3 95:22

97:22 109:14

144:4 148:9

149:16 160:16

164:10 191:15

195:10

boxes 11:16,20

12:4

brand 161:5,7

break 8:11,13 9:1,2

76:11,12,15 151:8

breakdown 104:17

brief 7:21 8:3 16:20

briefly 50:5 240:11

bright 45:15,15

108:4,6 110:6

130:14 182:13,17

199:9

brighter 129:6

135:13

brightest 89:4

101:17 103:1,18

104:4 105:14,21

106:18 108:18

110:11,21 111:4

111:20 113:19

114:4,8,20,22

115:5,11,16 118:9

122:4 125:13

126:6,22 127:3,17

128:5 129:3,6,18

129:20,22 130:1,3

130:8 131:2,3,19

132:1,9 133:2

134:5 137:12

139:6 140:4,8

brightly 119:13

brightness 3:8 8:10

15:21 16:4,7

17:17 53:12,20,22

74:12 102:13

106:17 107:6,11

107:14,18,18

108:9,10 112:6

118:4 119:1

121:14 135:17

137:11 190:14

237:12

bring 48:20 85:8

189:2 237:6

238:15

bringing 131:6

brings 94:22

108:21 187:7

broadcast 26:5

164:15,20 169:8

broader 44:7

Brookman 1:9,12

3:4 4:3,11 5:12,20

6:20 7:10,15 10:6

10:19 12:11 29:11

31:22 33:7 34:10

35:4,16 36:3 37:1

42:8 48:2 49:9

52:2 54:14 57:10

58:15 59:16 60:10

61:5,8 62:17,22

63:7 67:1 70:4

71:14 72:20,22

75:3 76:10,14

77:9,17,21 78:1

86:22 89:18 93:4

94:6 96:7,20

97:13 98:18 99:2

99:7,11 100:7,16

100:21 104:9

106:13 110:1

113:4,21 116:7,16

117:7 118:14

120:8 121:21

122:5,11 124:4

126:11 127:19,22

128:11 130:6

133:4 134:20

136:11,19 139:8

139:16,20 140:11

140:13 141:2

144:13 146:8,18

147:1,15 148:19

149:11 150:18

151:7 154:19,22

157:12 159:16

160:21 161:8

163:8,15 164:21

166:3 167:3,10

170:1,19 173:9

174:9,20 175:16

178:8,20 180:4,16

183:3,19 184:2,13

186:4 188:14

192:13 193:11

194:14 197:6,19

198:13 201:6

203:4 204:2 207:1

212:7,20 213:2,8

213:15,19 214:6

215:13 217:18

218:6 221:15

222:16 224:2

225:7,15 227:21

229:19 230:22

232:4,20 233:17

234:20 236:5,9,15

237:9 238:5 239:5

239:17 240:2,10

240:18 242:10

brought 195:2

BT.470.6 169:11

build 230:16

building 4:10 76:18

built 20:19 21:18

227:7

built-in 56:14

bullet 67:3

bundle 95:7

burden 145:10

177:20 227:15

button 187:11

193:22

Buy 2:7

buys 211:8
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 246

C

cable 141:13 151:5

164:15 202:11

203:8,9

cables 142:9

167:20 168:1

calculate 64:3

171:13,14,17

205:7

calculated 27:16

65:16 81:11,17

83:7 84:5 115:10

121:9 205:11

206:16

calculating 80:8

171:21 235:9

calculation 26:18

80:13 216:5 235:6

235:19

calculations 84:9

85:15

calibrate 58:21

165:20

calibrated 59:3

164:9 165:18

California 6:15

137:17 180:22

181:3,9,22

call 106:1,6 191:13

called 49:3 96:17

120:19 125:5

calls 233:6

Canada 113:15

181:18,19,19

183:17 184:5

candela 172:6

candelas 171:20

172:2,5,10,13

capability 112:12

203:14

capable 20:3

109:18 121:15

capture 189:9

car 191:8

care 30:10 212:2

case 48:21 50:21

54:8 58:7 68:22

69:5,10,17 74:15

105:7 106:5

108:13 109:21

110:3 113:18

139:7 143:18

157:21 158:5,9

160:10,10,11

162:15,22 163:3,6

171:19,21 173:2

176:2 189:21

204:4 207:17

208:7 211:18

215:17 223:17

226:18,22 238:4

239:21

cases 27:10 41:8

65:6,19 68:20

101:17 105:13

119:1 133:7,10,16

133:19 138:18

143:19 156:10

160:9 163:12,14

171:21 174:17

200:14 211:18

233:14

casual 229:8

catch 220:13

category 124:18

125:4,6

cause 31:18 44:12

98:2

caused 40:4 50:10

causes 21:12

causing 50:8 145:4

caveat 114:6

CEA 6:12 34:14

62:7 63:18 67:7

68:6 70:11 89:22

100:18 143:2

168:21 176:5

178:12 239:2

CEA's 176:1

CEA-2037 67:11

100:12

CEA-2037-A 15:11

62:8

CEA-770.3-D

168:5

CEC 224:6

Celia 241:14,16

cell 9:21

center 53:5 134:4

century 135:3

certain 43:10 53:4

58:8 97:11 107:11

126:22 127:3

151:10 177:12

200:9

certainly 32:18

71:19 116:1

149:12 157:2,8

165:7 166:1

200:19 241:19

certified 19:5

chair 106:20

chairing 6:11

challenge 229:11

238:16

chance 77:10

167:11

change 28:13 117:2

117:5 161:21

162:9 187:21,21

190:18 199:21,22

208:12 211:11

220:3

changed 17:10 18:4

48:9,10 117:2

143:20 204:16

211:12

changes 11:5 17:16

19:7 54:21,22,22

141:9,12 143:22

171:2 175:19

220:13

changing 53:1

134:17 182:11

183:13 188:8

218:17 220:11

Channel 97:1

channels 164:15,16

168:7

characterize

229:10

charge 217:3

charged 100:4

charging 92:9

charging/dischar...

92:15

Charlie 1:21 6:16

35:4,5 48:2 60:11

113:4 118:14,15

134:20,21 147:16

147:17 150:14

157:12,13 183:4

188:15,16 195:1

195:21 197:6

198:13 207:1

218:6,7 221:16

225:8,9 227:22

228:1 230:22

231:1

Charlie's 164:5

196:20

check 242:3

checked 7:18 159:8

cherry 242:3

chip 98:9

chips 97:20 98:6

choice 72:1 117:11

117:13 179:20

215:5

choose 198:7

chose 214:10

chosen 30:12 60:6

Chris 116:19 124:4

124:7 127:19

Christopher 1:22

6:4 116:18

chronological 20:9

cinema 106:8

circuit 240:17

circumstance

158:10 159:14

189:10

citizen 5:9

claim 159:5 210:5

claims 210:8

clarification 42:13

66:2 87:13 88:2

88:20 90:11

171:13 172:16

173:6 176:5

clarified 172:18,22

clarify 67:1 87:10

95:11 102:7 128:1

180:6

clarity 129:1

CLASP 1:22 61:20

70:11 116:20

122:22 124:7

class 63:18

cleaner 128:22

clear 35:18 64:9

73:8 95:18 186:9

196:13

clearly 5:14 25:18

92:4 122:8 136:13

174:1 224:14

clears 196:13

clips 138:5,6

clock 91:16

close 31:21 39:17

42:21 44:11 50:8

51:7 74:1 75:9

231:8,22

closed 214:17

closer 38:13,16

44:21 213:16,20

closes 241:5

closing 3:19 9:4

coating 28:11

coatings 55:14

coax 185:20 201:13

202:5,11,13 203:8

203:9

Code 179:13

codified 179:13

coefficient 26:13

26:15 27:6,11,16

83:9 84:12 85:12

85:22 86:3

coffee 76:19 77:2

Collaborative 6:5

colleague 5:5

colleagues 29:19

30:5 32:9

collect 123:7
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 247

collected 124:13

collection 26:10

124:8

color 28:13 102:13

163:21 164:2

168:8

combinations

163:12 170:7

come 5:9 29:16

35:7 60:18 61:2

95:20 100:5 105:6

145:7 169:19

198:15 208:5,10

209:3 216:19

220:22 228:12

comes 137:4 192:1

203:21 231:21

comfortable

140:17 163:20

coming 67:12 92:8

137:1,2 147:8

149:7 150:12

172:8

comment 10:12

11:7,19,22 17:11

32:1 36:4 43:7

52:12 57:12 59:18

60:13 62:15 63:14

70:3 71:20 72:19

73:1 76:5 89:15

89:17 94:4 105:17

115:19 120:9

121:8 122:1 123:3

123:17 126:3

134:7,12 136:13

136:16 139:21

140:20 144:10

145:5 146:9

154:16 161:2

167:19 173:5

178:4 185:21

190:6 193:12

194:3 206:20

209:9 214:15,16

224:1 236:3,5

241:5

commented 101:16

102:2 144:17

commenting 121:1

comments 9:11

12:6 13:12 15:18

17:13 29:2 30:18

32:3 35:21 36:6

37:2 42:4 60:11

63:8 81:9 88:3

99:3 100:8 102:5

104:2,6 121:10

137:7 140:20

146:3,19 157:2

165:1 169:1

170:19 173:11

175:17 178:21

180:17,18 186:2

193:14 200:22

201:1,7,11 216:11

222:16 236:10

237:4 239:6

240:19,20 241:2,3

242:7,7

commercial 119:11

120:2

commercials

135:11,14

Commission

137:18

Committee 168:12

commonly 176:14

communication

160:15,19

communities 34:16

community 31:15

company 155:18

comparable 65:17

compare 113:1

127:1 213:6 221:2

compared 42:22

190:9 214:11

233:4

compares 27:6

comparison 27:15

38:12 50:12 51:19

compatible 168:19

compensate 43:10

compete 131:2

competence 81:6

84:2,4

complete 9:16

140:15

completion 26:9

complex 92:20

complexity 106:11

194:20

compliance 228:4,8

228:13 229:8,12

231:5 232:6

234:10

comply 66:17

228:14,16 231:15

231:16

component 168:4

168:20

components 98:5

composed 123:20

composite 146:4

168:9 169:5,10

compounded 39:22

compromise 36:19

46:11 47:7

concern 29:18

30:13 31:14 34:6

55:2 58:1 118:16

122:15 134:22

135:20 163:18

164:6 166:1

188:17 190:5

191:11,14 196:20

226:2 229:17

concerned 31:13

42:20 70:9 106:21

111:11 120:5

136:7 140:2

147:20 160:14,20

199:15 200:11

226:19 227:14

concerns 29:16,17

59:13 70:6 106:16

139:22 225:18

237:7

concise 9:17

concluded 28:1

concludes 92:21

concluding 9:7,7

conclusion 54:13

conclusions 16:16

79:15

concur 62:21

concurs 65:13

condition 45:13

46:12 59:6 62:5

conditioner 207:7

conditions 3:13

8:17 16:3 18:7

37:22 41:21 62:1

88:1,7 119:2

141:10,12 146:20

conducted 20:10

21:4 25:21 51:2

61:20 79:21 86:14

confidence 60:14

223:5,6,9,16,17

223:20 233:10

234:13

configuration

192:21

configure 187:2

conflicted 33:1

confusing 173:14

173:20 203:8

confusion 87:11

93:15 95:9 98:2,8

101:14 219:10

conjunction 148:10

connect 186:11

187:9 202:9

connected 95:21

137:3 185:13

186:18 187:16

188:3 193:20

195:11 201:17

connection 168:11

185:10,15,17

202:12

connections 88:22

89:13 140:22

connects 187:7

consensus 70:18

71:6

consequences 55:5

107:4 108:12

123:13

conservation 23:17

199:2

conservative 227:2

228:21

conserve 41:12

conserving 198:19

consider 59:11

115:7 150:6

184:10,11 216:12

considerable 119:9

considerably 44:14

consideration 9:13

considered 40:19

95:1 184:15 205:5

205:18 206:2

239:1

considering 79:22

consisted 19:20

consistency 209:20

210:5,11,14

216:17 222:19

consistent 156:17

156:19 213:13

consistently 211:4

console 148:1,10

constant 24:11

constantly 52:22

consultants 116:21

Consulting 1:16,17

1:20 7:5,7,14

19:15 74:4 141:7

167:16

consume 153:12

200:7 222:1

consumed 153:17

153:21

consumer 1:13

98:8 107:9,16

116:9,13 117:14

118:8 123:9 125:1

125:10 138:1

167:9 187:6

190:22 191:4,6

193:8 196:5

197:21 198:17
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 248

215:6 221:5 222:2

233:8

consumers 60:20

98:3 117:11,20

123:1 127:9

199:14,16,20

214:20 215:1

221:2

consumer's 45:8

consumes 189:7

consumption 19:2

20:17 23:2 24:18

26:7 37:11,12,16

38:6 39:5 41:5

50:16 53:22 54:5

66:19 71:18 78:10

78:19 84:21

119:20 122:19

126:6 131:10

135:1,6,9,18,21

136:1 143:12,22

147:21 148:15

150:9 151:17

153:15 154:4,5

159:6 160:12

162:17 177:1,5,16

177:18 179:16

189:13,14 192:9

197:18 204:11

205:6,10 206:14

206:17,22 207:4

209:6,12,16,19,21

210:2,9,19 212:12

212:19 216:2,7

217:12 221:1,5

222:5 223:11,13

233:7

consumptions

21:13

consumptive 131:8

189:18 197:14

198:7

contact 173:3,19

174:3,6,7,11,17

174:22 175:9

241:13,13,17

contain 94:11

containable 202:7

contains 93:17

content 26:5 52:22

77:4 91:6 119:12

120:17 121:2

135:16 144:3

146:20 220:15

CONTENTS 3:1

continue 116:4

117:21 118:7

122:18 124:1

146:14 155:16

continued 5:1

continues 41:13

72:12

contrast 102:13

131:4

control 3:8 8:10

15:21 16:4,8

17:18 160:20

237:12

controlled 56:18

convened 1:8

conventional 67:14

68:10

conversation 5:16

10:15 11:14 17:8

19:12 137:5

142:21 146:15

227:8

conversations 9:22

convert 202:15

207:3 218:17

converting 96:10

converts 45:5

cop's 227:9

corner 53:4 88:17

corners 28:20 29:7

Corporate 2:2

Corporation 29:14

168:10

correct 69:14 75:2

107:8 164:3

168:20,21 169:22

180:11 193:15

196:5 224:11

correction 57:20

correctly 97:12

122:8 179:5,10

correlation 53:21

54:10

correspond 12:3

correspondence

90:5

corresponding

38:21

corresponds 11:21

cost 194:19 199:19

225:6,22 231:20

costs 130:9 199:9

199:11 231:13

Counsel 241:15

Counsel's 6:19

couple 78:8 115:22

117:10,18 144:5

208:18 209:7

212:7 237:2

240:22

course 45:11,21

70:8 98:13 109:18

112:17 191:7,8

192:2 210:9 229:7

230:5

cover 93:20 133:18

172:18 175:4,10

180:21 204:8

235:1

covered 9:8 61:6

97:6 140:13

164:22 204:3

236:14 237:8

covering 77:4

133:13

covers 90:22

173:18

crazy 165:8

create 20:19 21:20

22:12 23:5 89:3

124:18

created 219:10

creating 46:10

critical 182:21

201:2

crystal 35:18

cue 173:11

cumulative 21:16

curious 52:5,9

63:22 96:1 100:10

100:13 213:5

current 112:20

113:12 192:15

193:4 194:4

237:18 238:17

currently 23:18

32:15 49:6 110:21

113:10 130:2

192:18 198:2

213:13

curve 38:9,10 41:4

41:7,13

curves 38:7,11,15

38:18 44:3

customer 160:7

193:2

cut 54:19

cutoff 47:17 55:7

C&R 2:6

D

DAM 176:3,5,7

177:13,18 179:3,7

dark 88:1,6,20

89:13 140:21

data 26:10,10,17

26:19,22 52:11,12

54:9,12 56:1 57:3

73:5 75:8 78:5,10

78:12,15 79:17

81:11 82:17 85:4

118:17 119:16

122:17 123:1,7

124:8,13 147:22

148:18 149:6,10

149:13,21 150:5

164:13 177:12

185:16 194:18

205:21,22 207:5

218:17 220:9

date 148:20 220:18

David 2:5 122:7,8

122:12

day 7:17 11:10

19:11 31:20,20

77:4 138:21 177:9

177:13,19 207:21

208:1 215:20

226:8 229:16

daylight 45:15

days 97:19 208:18

deadline 12:5

deal 56:12 155:4

debate 214:12

debated 214:9

decide 65:2 184:7

224:21 229:1

decided 63:15

92:19,20

decrease 197:18

decreased 131:10

deeply 30:7

default 15:22 17:18

18:2 19:18 64:5

64:15 65:18,21

66:21 80:4,9 89:5

103:9,14,18 104:5

106:4 107:13

115:10 125:14

126:3,16,17,21

128:4 129:3

143:19 152:14,18

153:1 163:13

184:6,8 192:21,21

195:13,18,19

196:8,9,15 197:2

237:13 238:11

define 101:6

131:12 170:4

199:11

defined 25:18

28:10 91:14 93:17

101:7,11 180:8,9

181:1 186:17

188:4,7 192:18

196:17 223:7,18

defines 91:1 95:4

102:8 199:4

defining 102:6

180:14
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 249

definitely 115:18

203:3

definition 34:2

57:14 58:4,12

87:8,18,20,22

89:20 93:1,7 94:5

94:14,15 95:3,14

97:9 98:13 102:1

102:20,21,22

103:2,5,7,8 105:3

105:11,18 114:2

117:2,6 127:13

128:2,10,19

129:18 161:3

178:7 186:7

187:21 188:8

193:14 199:1

definitions 3:11

8:14 18:6 76:3,7

86:20 87:4,5,15

87:16 89:1,3,6

90:1,3,10,10

92:22 101:3 104:3

104:15 114:13

118:1 127:6,11

128:4 129:1,9

132:8 141:17

142:22 146:4

151:5 167:19,22

170:20 195:6

DEFRA 130:16

degree 175:3,6

degrees 31:6,7,9,17

171:11 173:16,21

174:2 223:10,21

delivering 20:3

demo 122:2 133:9

133:11

demos 120:19

density 16:6 49:5

67:17,20 68:2

department 1:1,8

1:13,15,18 2:6 4:6

10:7 63:1,5,14

64:1 94:8,8 96:1

123:6

depending 45:21

53:3 153:15

170:10,13 200:15

depends 55:14

110:8 198:22

199:4 207:6,7,9

224:16 230:18,18

describe 188:22

described 188:20

description 192:16

193:16

design 43:4,4 61:2

194:2

designated 142:12

143:17 144:2

designations 144:6

designed 25:19

50:18 51:21 57:13

93:20 128:14

176:10,13

desirable 121:2

desk 88:9

Desroches 1:14

3:18 7:2,2 57:11

58:10 59:17 75:4

75:4 96:22 97:7

121:22 133:5,5

204:7 213:11

222:18 234:22

detail 19:9 87:14

89:8 93:6 127:10

141:18,20 143:6

201:21

details 16:22 89:20

127:8

detected 91:17

detector 56:10

detectors 56:11

determinable

92:10

determine 26:11

69:13 120:16

128:16 133:22

determined 21:11

88:6 176:7

detour 167:17

developed 130:21

developing 15:13

development

104:21

developments 15:6

deviate 24:20

deviation 26:16

83:9 84:11,14

85:12

device 18:9 141:14

142:15 143:5

147:5,13 151:2,8

154:10,12,18

156:9 157:4

200:15

devices 99:16 148:8

171:6 172:19

173:2,4 175:17

200:5 222:1,3

diagonal 93:11

diagram 51:9

difference 44:3

56:3 68:21,22

69:3,18 74:17

75:13,15,18 80:13

83:11 84:17 85:13

91:3,4 100:18

132:17 154:3

163:4 189:11,12

189:22 193:9

195:7 200:12

differences 21:12

69:16 79:19 86:5

86:7 100:14

127:16 200:17

different 16:1

25:22 26:2 46:3

47:16,17,17 51:9

55:20,21 57:16,17

57:18 59:1 72:6

72:13,14 81:14

82:19,21 85:16,19

85:20 90:2 107:17

107:19 111:3

115:17 118:3

124:19,20 127:11

132:16 134:6

143:10 145:1

150:19 151:19

152:6,11 153:2

156:14 158:18

159:8,9,11 170:3

170:7 188:11

193:17 199:5

200:2 210:7

212:17 216:4

222:15 224:16

226:7,8 230:2

differently 41:9

66:12 90:19,22

differing 152:8

difficult 23:20 30:9

31:8 70:15 120:15

120:21 160:17

191:17 232:9

difficulties 108:8

difficulty 31:18

111:12 226:1

diffuse 44:7,17

digital 12:22 164:3

digits 171:8,10,15

172:8

dim 109:5,6 121:12

182:13,17

dimmed 39:19 40:2

dimmer 109:7

111:5

direct 19:20 20:22

21:17 22:10 24:22

25:9 27:15

direction 150:20

159:22

directives 90:3

directly 20:1 25:10

53:5 54:6 59:22

60:7 68:11 195:16

disable 197:16

237:21,22 238:12

239:20

disabled 143:16

184:7,12 237:14

238:12 239:12

disables 237:19

disabling 239:22

disappointed

107:17

disapprove 220:4

disc 144:4 163:22

164:8

disconnect 110:15

disconnects 56:20

discover 228:5

discovered 22:21

24:7,15 143:10

151:10

discovery 43:3

145:3

discuss 11:10 17:4

61:10 87:13 89:7

101:2 141:1

147:10 151:1

discussed 11:1

33:11 71:17 80:3

80:14,18 86:15

89:14 92:17 195:5

discussing 16:16

18:20 89:11

146:22 204:15

214:21

discussion 11:13

21:1 42:14 89:15

92:22 151:3 195:4

discussions 123:5

display 96:5 119:13

119:18 120:17

168:4,6,9 172:4

displayed 26:6

120:12 121:4

172:1,14

displaying 171:19

displays 32:13,16

34:2 142:10

distance 21:2 22:1

22:16 23:7,12

25:7,8,13 26:2

27:8,11,17,18

28:1,4,18 29:6

36:5 38:8,9 39:18

39:20 40:10,21

41:6 42:3 44:4,5

49:13 50:13 57:3

75:7,16 78:21

79:1 82:1 83:1
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 250

85:2 86:1 175:2

distances 30:15

distinct 20:19

distinction 101:19

distinguish 240:5

distinguishment

96:4

diverge 46:8

divided 81:7 84:14

115:11 205:15

223:6,16 233:11

234:13

divisor 226:3,15,21

233:20

docket 14:1 78:14

84:22 241:7 242:8

document 12:2

49:2 100:12 202:4

documents 14:4,8

14:10,20 15:1,12

DOE 6:19 7:1 11:5

11:22 12:7,17

13:1,6 15:4,8,14

15:22 16:13 17:5

17:13 18:13 19:19

20:9 21:4,7,16,19

22:5,8,13,20 23:3

23:8,22 24:6,15

25:18 26:13 27:22

28:5,15 29:1

33:14 37:4,22

38:19 40:6 41:19

42:4 49:2 52:6,7,9

52:11 61:11,15,17

62:6,10,12,14

68:5,7,18 69:20

70:2 81:1 90:5,12

90:21 91:13 93:8

98:16 100:15

101:4 102:5,8,20

103:7 104:1,6

106:11 110:10,16

111:11,17 112:5

114:16 117:3

128:14 131:12,20

134:9 139:10

141:11,22 142:11

142:13 143:7,9,15

143:22 144:9

145:16 149:8

151:10 152:1,5,13

153:5 154:9,15

161:3 171:4,16

172:17,20 173:5

175:21 176:4,6,11

177:21 178:1,4

179:4,12,21,22

181:2,8,11 183:14

184:15,20 185:2,9

185:21 186:2

193:15 194:18

195:17 201:10

202:1,4 204:10,17

205:5,8,17,17

206:4,19 207:3

210:20 214:2

216:9,18 219:4,5

222:21 223:13,22

225:1 231:6 232:5

233:19,22 236:3

241:4

DOE's 4:18 5:1

14:4,6 15:3 23:17

54:4 90:16 126:14

170:13 179:19

doing 5:10,14

29:22 56:21 57:19

75:10 78:11 79:22

107:1 110:9,16

123:14 147:18

155:9,17,19

165:15 183:17

186:14 187:17

209:16 214:13

dollars 215:3

Dommu 1:15 3:4,5

3:7,20 4:15,16,17

5:14 10:18,19,20

12:14 33:7,8 36:1

49:1 51:5 64:2

65:3 66:14 71:15

72:18 76:4,12

78:3 93:2 96:3,14

115:6,18,21

116:15 125:7

127:20 128:1

129:12 146:14

147:12 149:12,20

155:22 157:18,22

158:15 159:4

165:22 179:11

180:13 181:11

187:20 188:13

190:6,21 197:8

200:18 209:7

213:9,12 216:10

217:7 218:2 220:4

232:21 234:11,16

236:21,22 240:21

double 224:9,12

doubles 225:6

doubt 155:17,19

Doug 1:9,12 3:4

4:11,20 10:21

237:1

download 176:1

177:9,10

downstream 48:6

48:18 49:16

draft 15:11 31:6

36:10 91:12,14

113:12 134:13,14

145:8

drafting 241:3

draw 79:15 131:2

drive 227:12

drop 73:18

due 35:22 39:16

42:20 60:20 69:3

119:1 194:1

duration 26:8

DVD 148:9 164:17

DVI 142:8 144:18

dynamic 26:5

52:21 144:3

dynamics 98:16

D.C 1:9 4:10

E

earlier 60:13 70:6

75:6 83:17 147:19

early 7:17 40:4

42:17,18 97:19

98:1

ease 197:5

easier 128:22

easily 161:17

225:22 229:9

easy 117:15

echo 60:13 213:4

eco 199:1

edge 36:15 232:11

Edition 142:18

EDSON 2:7

educated 215:5

EERE 14:1

effect 16:3 31:2

54:10 73:8 90:9

145:4 157:14

effective 49:4

130:19

effects 38:21

efficiency 3:18 6:17

9:3 18:21 126:19

204:6 211:2,3

222:6

efficient 109:1

130:22 197:12

221:6 222:8

231:12,16 232:10

232:13,19

effort 57:2 60:21

220:3 225:4

eight 25:22 82:20

either 50:20 55:16

60:3 69:10,21

71:18 95:20

101:21 112:21

116:13 125:10

128:21 129:21

133:20 137:14

158:2,10,13 160:8

162:22 176:17

178:19 196:17

201:17,18 207:18

either/or 211:3

elaborate 52:19

74:5 157:19

electronics 1:13 2:5

2:5 29:14 122:13

167:9 222:3

elevator 76:21

elicit 99:3

eliminate 91:8

92:15 112:22

eliminating 98:8

144:17,18,20

else's 155:10,13

158:8 165:14

231:17

email 241:5

emphasize 8:5

enable 186:12

187:9 193:2 196:6

196:10,22 197:15

enabled 3:8 8:10

15:22 17:18 18:1

19:18 64:5,15

65:18,20 66:21

80:4,9 184:12

185:6 188:11

192:22

enabling 197:13

encased 93:18

95:15

encountered

104:20 121:18

encourage 201:1

ends 66:4 76:19

236:18

energy 1:1,8,13,15

1:16,18 3:18 6:14

6:17 9:2 10:7

15:9 18:21 19:2

23:17 32:12,15

52:4 63:4 66:19

77:16 104:14

106:5 109:21

110:3 112:9

114:13 117:12

118:2 119:20

123:5,16 124:2

125:19 126:1,18

126:19 127:14

128:13,16 129:5
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 251

130:20 132:2,5

135:6 136:1

137:17,17 139:14

150:9 158:12

179:6,15 180:6

184:17 185:4,11

185:18 197:12

198:7,18 199:2,9

199:12,19 200:1

201:20 204:6

205:6,10 206:17

206:22 207:4,5,7

209:15,18,21

210:2,9,19 211:2

211:5 212:3,12,12

213:7,14 214:11

215:11,15,16

216:2,7 217:12

218:12,12 219:6

219:17 221:4

222:1,5 224:5

229:12 230:1

231:3,9,17 232:8

232:13 237:18,19

238:10

Energy's 4:6

enforcement

224:17

engineers 230:20

England 5:11

enhancing 158:6

ensure 25:15 33:13

33:21 107:15

185:14 222:19

227:19 234:9

ensures 24:1,10

enter 40:9,16 46:17

46:19 47:9

entered 103:11

143:20 151:12

152:14,17,22

156:12

entering 24:17

25:15 154:13

enters 103:15

entire 24:11 123:20

133:18 177:16

entirely 211:13

entirety 27:3

entities 217:22

entity 179:17,22

210:6 217:9

environment

134:18

EPA 1:18 34:1

77:14 104:11

110:8,15 112:1,7

113:2 131:21

132:6 161:12

227:17 229:11

230:12 231:3

232:8

EPA's 132:2

EPCA 28:10 95:3

equal 223:4,15

233:9 234:12,17

equally 61:13

62:13 63:13 65:2

67:4

equation 205:11

209:19 223:7,18

equidistant 28:21

equipment 3:14

8:18 18:11 155:13

155:16 158:8

164:1 171:3

176:18

equivalent 35:12

especially 39:14

53:16 119:8 202:4

225:18

essence 123:11

124:1

essentially 43:13

43:14 46:18 48:7

59:3 85:18 132:15

174:5 186:14

188:22 190:16

224:9

establish 4:19

12:18 13:2

established 137:17

establishing 15:7

Ethernet 176:15

185:20 201:13,15

201:17,19,22

202:7,19

Europe 113:15

117:4 145:21

Europeans 134:16

evaluate 16:1 21:5

25:19 138:7

evaluated 26:10

88:5 152:1

evaluation 21:9

22:13 39:10

242:11,12

event 121:13

everybody 140:1

140:17

everyone's 4:22

exact 213:10

exactly 59:6 111:7

169:2 178:10

181:2 186:10

187:18 190:8

201:3

example 67:18 82:2

102:15 179:7

181:18 206:7

examples 20:22

144:5 171:17

exceed 228:10

excellent 232:10

excuse 30:20

exist 72:17

existence 192:7

exit 28:12

expect 45:8 156:4

161:5

expected 50:7 91:4

expense 155:6

expensive 39:1

97:21 130:20

experience 34:19

71:5 107:17

experienced 42:19

109:7

explain 75:20

explained 82:18

83:17,21 122:16

expressed 87:11

93:14

extent 60:16 229:3

external 93:21

94:17,20 95:6,19

95:21 97:22

160:19 186:9,13

187:2

extra 130:9 227:15

extremely 109:5

eye 108:7

F

fact 31:11 43:11

90:2 112:4 140:15

155:7 160:18

174:1 215:8

factor 181:1,7,12

181:17,21 182:14

183:2,9,9 204:21

205:2 206:18

factories 130:22

factory 137:14

138:15 139:1

Fairhurst 1:15 6:9

6:10 29:13,14

34:11,12 35:20

36:2,9,10 42:9,10

43:21,22 45:2

47:10 58:16,17

59:12 62:19,20

70:5,6 72:3 89:19

97:15,16 98:20

99:5 100:11,17

106:14,15 109:4

110:7,14 111:7,9

113:10 122:16

130:7 133:11

134:8 139:9

144:14,15 154:20

163:16 168:14,15

170:12 173:12,12

174:21 178:9

183:20 186:5,6

188:1 194:15

197:20 203:5,5

214:8 225:17

229:5,6 232:5

233:18 234:15,18

236:7 237:10

238:2,8 239:15

240:11

Fairhurst's 151:4

fairly 30:14 220:10

221:2

fall 36:17 192:17

226:14

family 207:20

fancy 57:5

far 174:15 222:12

224:19

fashion 158:6

FASSLER 2:3

fast 200:6 220:17

faster 200:8

favor 224:20 233:8

FCC 12:21 96:9

97:16 98:4,9

feature 117:19

239:22

features 28:11

200:9

federal 7:20 13:21

13:22 128:19

179:13

feedback 5:16

10:11 22:8 61:15

108:7 117:10,18

146:16

feel 96:5 181:13

182:18 225:2

feels 206:4

feet 25:9 28:18

30:15,19,21 36:17

88:15,21

fewer 225:11

field 136:10 215:4

219:21

figure 20:7 25:6

27:5 38:5 40:21

68:9 101:20

102:15 103:16

111:10 150:10

211:21 230:20
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 252

figures 21:19 39:6

fill 242:12

filter 16:5,7 40:8

40:16,22 41:6,8

41:17 42:1,7,22

43:13 45:4,19

46:6,13,16,18

47:12,16 48:6,10

48:12,14,17 49:16

49:19 50:10,20

51:1,2,10,13,17

54:17 55:6 56:3,5

56:18 57:4,8

58:20 59:7,21

60:4,5,6 67:17,20

68:2,14,16 69:6

69:11,13 70:1,18

70:21 71:5 72:12

73:6,7,13,16,18

74:14,16,18 75:12

75:18,19,19 80:16

80:17,21 86:15

filters 17:20 49:5

55:11,20 56:13

67:20 73:16

240:16

final 13:14,18

47:10 66:13,15

79:6 85:9 164:22

180:9 209:17

222:16 230:6

240:19,19

finalizes 179:12

finally 8:18,19 9:4

19:3 24:3,13 45:3

80:22 89:4 142:19

168:8 177:3

241:12

find 14:3 15:2 30:5

30:8 34:21 47:13

49:7 50:15 72:4

72:13 97:18

107:16 119:21

120:4 128:21

136:10 137:22

148:11 149:19

177:21 218:11

222:13 228:17

finding 71:1 218:14

fine 91:7 140:6

186:11 236:13

finished 204:15

237:1

first 12:20 17:2

19:16 20:14 22:8

42:11,13 44:10

49:14 50:6 67:3

67:13 69:6 77:18

78:2 87:5 101:6

107:6,22 116:13

123:4 130:6

169:19,19 171:22

176:9 212:9

five 25:8 28:18

98:14 137:18

152:5 190:20

191:20 201:12

202:22 206:1,5

213:11,12 215:19

220:19

fix 108:7 158:20

fixed 25:8 28:18

29:6

flaw 43:4

flexibility 127:15

128:17

flip 109:9

floor 76:20

florescent 45:22

fluctuation 50:16

50:22

fluctuations 24:7

flush 25:4 60:7

focus 9:20 85:7

focused 20:1

focuses 25:2

focusing 17:8 82:22

folks 10:9 35:8

119:10 165:15

188:17 221:14

follow 14:18 48:4

128:9

followed 15:14

185:19

following 7:22 8:6

8:8,8,13,16,22 9:2

14:16 15:8,17

17:15 20:10 21:7

21:15 103:12

141:12 171:5

173:17 176:4

204:10,17 222:22

follow-on 38:14

41:2

follow-up 53:9 54:3

63:11 65:1 66:9

113:5 129:13

158:16

footnote 11:21

force 157:16

forced 101:9,22

102:12 103:13

125:9,17,18

128:10 130:17

131:6,9,13,14

132:21 133:2

197:11

foregoing 77:6

242:16

form 242:11,13

formal 237:2

formally 186:16

187:18

former 5:5

Forrestal 4:10

forth 47:18 70:17

139:15 146:5

164:16 175:13

186:17 187:3

195:5 240:16

fortunate 5:3

forward 5:15 11:13

13:16 16:19 86:18

150:22 200:20

found 13:22 27:1

37:19 50:13 72:9

102:11,17 103:3

103:10,19 105:12

138:16,18 143:16

four 25:22 28:20

29:7 32:1 61:12

62:10 64:18 67:4

82:19 152:7

202:22 204:1

205:12

fraction 148:4,7

232:3

Francine 1:18 6:18

216:22 241:15

frankly 34:22

118:22 182:22

196:19 219:2

free 155:8

freedom 223:10,21

freeway 227:10

frequency 55:7,8,9

55:17 58:8 141:13

142:1,5 169:22

170:7,9

frequently 121:3

front 19:22 25:1,5

48:17 49:20 50:10

51:3,11,13 56:5

58:20 60:3,8 68:2

68:14,17 69:10

75:12 161:4

FRYER 2:3

FTC 212:12 213:7

213:10,14 214:1,9

214:14,14,20

215:8,15,22 216:8

216:15,18 217:1

217:11,20

fulfilling 11:14

full 26:22 120:14

177:19 190:14

191:18

fully 100:4 215:15

function 57:15,21

120:19 192:18,20

195:8,8,9 196:22

197:17

functional 190:16

functionality

191:18

functions 87:15,16

87:19,21 89:12,13

99:21 121:5

140:21,21 195:4,6

195:14 211:16

fundamental

100:18

further 15:12 38:4

39:10 40:2 44:19

70:20 74:19 79:10

145:15 205:21

Fuse 1:17

future 98:12

117:22 132:19

203:20

future-proof

203:20

G

gain 70:18 71:6

game 144:20 148:9

149:15 150:3

228:15

gaming 143:18

147:22 148:6,13

148:16 165:8,12

gap 60:2

gather 221:17

general 6:19 53:21

54:16 197:22

226:3 241:14

generally 199:8,11

199:18 200:6

getting 5:16 32:20

96:4 120:1 127:2

156:14,17,19

175:12 211:15,16

give 35:2 53:7

116:2 138:4

141:20 200:19

201:2 212:3

216:12 227:15

230:3 237:5

given 37:12 135:10

202:19 206:12

218:13,13 221:3

221:11 226:11

227:17 229:16

233:21

giving 172:2
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 253

glad 4:12

globally 30:12

go 5:18 8:22 14:16

19:9 21:22 34:1

51:9,12 53:13

73:14 75:3,7,14

77:1 78:13,17,21

82:12 85:1 93:4,5

116:13 117:20

137:15 138:2

139:5 141:8 143:3

146:11,22 147:1

147:13 151:3

155:22 160:8

161:15,17 162:22

165:2 166:3

173:10 187:12

190:3 197:16

198:15,18,20

202:12 213:15

215:10 218:16

219:6 220:11

225:5 228:7

229:22 230:8,11

230:21 235:6

242:2

goal 107:5,7,9

175:10

goes 45:10 142:20

187:11 193:22

201:20 207:16

230:15

going 4:4,4,13

16:14,20 17:8

44:10 50:12 53:5

55:20 57:7 74:8,9

76:10 77:1 78:2,4

79:2 80:7 82:12

87:6 98:13 109:5

114:15 115:12

118:7,8,9 121:22

131:15 136:10,17

137:6 141:18,19

146:6,13 149:5,9

150:10,19,21

159:8,10,12

162:22 163:4

165:13 167:12,16

178:13 181:9

182:12 183:13

184:5,9 186:22

187:5 195:3

197:13 200:10

201:4 202:19,20

204:6 207:13,14

207:15,19 208:6,7

208:13,14,16,19

209:1,3 210:13

211:7,9,10,19

215:10 217:4

219:16 225:5

227:4 231:18

233:3,14

good 4:5,16 43:21

47:6,21 48:2

51:20 54:19 60:11

75:10 77:3,4

84:12 87:1 99:11

100:7 105:11

115:22 139:20

144:16 145:3

165:18 168:14

175:16 183:8

210:13 229:3

234:18 238:8

239:18

gotten 10:1 81:1

117:17

government 113:18

gradual 54:11

graph 42:17

graphs 52:6 152:20

gravitate 137:22

gray 196:13 198:1

great 5:20 55:1

57:1,3 58:13

74:22 76:1 184:14

201:20 204:3

213:3 240:21

greater 24:2 26:11

87:14 89:7 93:12

223:4,14 233:9

234:12,16 235:14

235:16,21 240:12

green 27:9 67:3

Greg 7:8

GREGORY 1:19

ground 11:1 76:20

group 106:20

groups 6:11 142:3

guarantee 165:12

232:12

guess 12:12 42:11

44:1,8 50:21

53:10 62:20 63:10

64:22 66:8 78:1

89:21 95:18 119:3

121:6 127:1

128:14,20 150:5

156:7,22 161:1

186:21 194:3

195:5 198:22

202:18 210:12

220:15

guidance 11:2

21:20 22:12

guide 212:12 213:7

213:14

gun 227:9

guy 137:2,3

guys 57:2 104:11

115:22 129:13

200:21 216:12

H

half 36:18 175:7

190:1

hallway 76:19

halogen 19:21 20:2

23:13,15,19 28:6

29:5 33:10

hand 10:13 112:1

122:7 186:21

handlers 209:2

handy 35:15

hang 76:21

happen 98:14,15

129:10 134:11

187:6 190:20

198:2

happening 108:5

117:22 155:12

157:6,11 160:17

161:13 165:8

happens 169:3

187:15 197:10

happy 112:15,16

113:1,3

hard 10:8 33:5 44:9

44:17 82:16

harm 59:9

harmonization

31:3 113:7,9

116:22 123:14

harmonize 30:16

68:5 87:19 89:1

114:14,15

harmonized 30:1

106:22

hat 31:12,12

HD 96:10

HDMI 168:2,3,15

169:20,21

head 62:18 182:1

224:8

hear 78:2 115:19

122:9,10 136:2,21

139:18 212:22

heard 79:5 134:15

155:21

hearing 116:5

129:16 167:13

heat 207:6 210:20

heavier 65:11 66:3

heavy 65:9

held 17:10

helicopter 195:10

Hello 4:16 10:20

help 22:12 46:6

87:10 210:11

helped 20:12 21:20

22:1

helpful 58:7 63:1

70:22 86:22 93:2

104:12,16 105:2,5

105:10,22 114:11

116:6 128:9

129:15 183:14

219:22

helping 102:7

helps 209:20

216:17

hertz 142:7 145:15

145:16,18,22

169:14,17,21

170:5

hey 5:7 136:19

Hi 32:6 54:15 73:2

78:3 104:10 137:9

147:3 179:1 201:8

212:22 224:3

236:22

hierarchy 169:19

185:11,17 186:3

201:12 202:20

high 3:16 8:19

18:14,16 40:3

43:11,18 87:6

119:7 160:1

175:22 176:8

178:1,3,6,10

180:7,8 185:1

194:1 204:12,18

higher 39:13,16

41:11,20 45:12

50:11 55:8 70:11

80:21 81:5 84:3

215:8 223:4,15

233:9 234:12,17

highest 86:9 101:12

102:3 103:4

109:10,14 192:9

highlighted 89:10

highlights 147:19

highly 98:6 121:2

207:8,15 220:20

high-level 20:8

history 3:5 8:7

12:15

hit 187:10 193:21

198:3

hitting 182:16

hoc 170:10

hold 60:4

home 45:9,16,17,21
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 254

46:7,8 60:20

63:20 101:5,7,21

102:11 103:4,6,8

103:11,12,20

104:7 106:1,3,3,6

106:18 107:12,13

107:16 108:4,21

109:10,11,14,15

109:19 110:10,12

111:5,13,20

113:20 115:17

116:11 117:14,16

118:5 122:4

123:10 124:17,19

125:5,10,11,12,13

126:17 127:18

128:3 129:22

130:4,15 131:7,13

131:13,20 134:15

136:8 137:19

138:1,14,21 139:5

148:8 187:7 206:4

206:7 238:11

homes 222:2

honest 118:17

honestly 122:16

hope 32:2 66:9

130:7 215:6

hopefully 14:5

34:20 122:9

hoping 61:1

hospitality 176:10

202:12

hotel 202:13

hour 76:8 135:7,10

166:5 205:13

208:1,2,17 227:10

227:12,13 235:21

236:1

hourly 205:18

206:8,18

hours 148:1,4

177:12,17 205:16

205:18,19 206:1,5

206:9,10,12

207:21 211:10

212:1 214:1,3

215:19 218:15

235:20,22

house 107:20

207:11 212:2

household 218:15

218:20

households 208:2

houses 229:13

housing 25:1 93:18

95:15

Howell 2:4 136:12

136:14,15 139:16

139:18,21 140:12

160:21 161:1

193:11,13 212:9

212:10 236:11,13

huge 131:11 138:6

human 57:15,20

hundredth 235:13

hypothesis 69:13

hypotheticals

197:10

I

idea 35:7 54:19

55:1 104:18 114:1

149:4 211:9

240:17

identified 155:20

identify 20:15

IEC 6:12 15:11

26:5 29:22 30:16

31:6 34:15 35:1

36:10 87:20 89:22

90:2,6,6,18 91:12

92:11,17 106:21

113:11 134:13

138:16 142:2,18

143:2 145:5,6

163:21 164:8

169:2 178:12

182:2,3 186:17

188:7 192:19

236:6,8 239:2

illuminance 3:10

8:14 17:22 22:19

24:10 26:3,21

27:7,14,17 28:16

29:9 36:6 37:7,14

37:18 39:15,21

40:1,2,11 41:11

41:13,20 48:7,9

48:10,11,13 49:17

49:19,20,22 50:18

51:21 52:1 56:1,5

56:8,13 57:12,13

57:17 59:19 60:1

61:10,12,18,22

62:7,11 63:6,17

63:19 64:11 65:6

65:16 67:5,8,9,10

68:10 69:4,22

172:19 173:20,22

illumination 18:2

64:19 65:4 82:21

image 59:20

imagine 200:21

233:20

immeasurably

131:11

immediate 6:1

immediately 7:22

8:8 53:18 103:12

impact 20:16 23:1

36:22 74:1

impacts 24:17

implementation

114:11 118:2

implications

133:21

implies 169:7

important 14:8

25:12 55:8 72:8

114:16 124:1

130:11 232:18

235:5 237:11

impossible 111:22

120:16

impression 73:21

improper 59:14

improve 79:10

210:11

improvement

144:16

improves 23:10

45:7

inappropriate

175:9

incandescent 19:21

20:2 23:13,15,18

23:19 28:6 29:5

33:10,13 45:22

47:4

incentive 158:3

222:8

incentives 222:7

inch 91:7

inches 30:16 90:14

90:16,17,20 93:12

96:12

include 15:9 80:20

113:11,12 144:1

163:21 184:19

185:3

included 22:4,15

94:17 142:11

185:16 204:11

includes 17:18 19:1

185:19

including 21:19

92:22 93:22

184:16 206:21

209:15

inconsistency

217:16

inconsistent 210:17

incorporate 31:8

142:2,18 145:6

230:10

incorporated 15:15

79:8 87:17,21

175:22

incorporating

205:8

incorporation

94:18

increase 37:13 39:4

145:10 177:19

197:17

increases 37:19

increasing 37:13

37:17 74:11

Independence 1:9

indicated 62:2 65:9

71:22 152:19

indicates 205:22

indirectly 195:21

individual 224:20

individually 64:8

individuals 167:4

212:8

industry 31:11,13

89:2 108:1,2

infer 160:1,5

inform 222:5

information 7:18

13:4 34:21 71:7

124:12 134:18

181:14 221:17

234:5 241:4,10,11

241:13,14

informative 178:15

infrared 16:6 21:9

39:2,7 43:12,18

44:22 47:4 49:4

50:7 54:20,21

69:4,7

initial 23:8 24:6

37:4 102:11 107:5

196:2,10 224:19

initially 70:7

innovation 130:19

input 15:13 16:9

18:8,9 24:5,8 62:9

64:16 88:22 89:13

140:22 141:13,14

141:14 142:9,12

142:14 143:4,5,8

143:10,17,21

144:2,6,12 145:9

146:20 147:5,13

149:15 150:13

151:2,5,8 154:10

154:17 156:9

157:4 167:20

168:1 235:5,6

241:19

inputs 144:20,20
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 255

146:1 236:2

inquiry 123:9

inserting 45:18

insight 241:22

instance 72:5 90:6

90:12 108:13

139:14 169:20

218:18 227:6

232:9 240:15

instances 119:19

insufficient 88:4

integrated 97:20

98:6

Integrations 2:3

integrative 36:13

intended 142:10

intending 236:18

intensity 39:8

intent 110:15 125:8

164:7

intention 99:17

101:19

interaction 154:13

159:19

interest 91:13

129:2 193:19

196:16

interested 5:6,17

29:2 42:5,14

62:15 78:16 94:4

144:10 154:16

173:6 178:5,17

185:22 206:20

interesting 43:3

72:4 126:13

157:14 232:17

interface 168:2,4,6

168:9

internal 57:19

93:18,21 94:1

95:20 98:19

223:20

internally 221:18

229:6

international 30:14

31:3,9,12 34:22

35:11 113:6,8

142:3

internationalizat...

145:14

internationally

29:21 106:22

107:2 113:14

134:13

internet 202:9

interpret 23:1

interpreted 88:11

interrupted 121:3

interval 223:9

introduce 6:21

7:10 77:10 98:15

145:13 167:6

introduced 167:5

introducing 55:4

introduction 19:10

introductions 3:3

5:21 10:22

introductory 113:7

invented 130:18

investigate 143:14

investigated 38:1

investigation 13:8

22:20 24:16

investigative 16:2,4

16:8,11,15 17:4

investments 222:14

Investor-Owned

6:15

invitation 11:18

invite 11:11

inviting 11:7

involved 6:11

22:14 29:22 181:6

229:15 230:19

231:13

involvement 5:1

in-home 130:8

in-store 118:4

IP 187:8

IR 36:18 39:13

40:3,7,22 41:6,7

41:16,17 42:22

44:14 45:4,10,11

45:18 46:6,13

48:6 49:4 54:17

55:6 56:7,9,12

57:4,8 58:20,20

59:6 69:12 70:1

73:3,6,12,15,16

73:18 74:14,16,18

75:11,12,17,19

91:17 240:16

irrelevant 219:7

IR/ND 56:2

IR/UV 16:5 41:22

42:6 47:12,16

80:15,17 86:14

issue 11:17,18 12:4

19:16 36:5 39:21

43:5,5 44:18 54:3

61:9 94:22 110:20

113:9 121:11,17

123:4 143:14

146:17 151:14

152:1 155:6,11,20

156:2,7 158:19

160:13 162:12

163:1 165:10

169:14 182:9

183:11 200:10

231:21 232:1

issues 8:3 9:8 11:12

11:16,20,22 12:2

29:18 55:3 138:3

226:6 237:7

item 30:14 237:11

items 32:2 141:20

141:21 204:1

ITU 169:11

I’m 58:18

J

Jack 10:4,5

Japan 29:19 32:9

Japanese 30:8

Jarid 1:21 7:12

Jeff 2:4 136:12,13

136:14,19 137:1,2

139:16 160:21

193:11,11 194:16

212:9 213:4

236:11

Jeremy 1:15 3:4,5

3:7,20 4:15,17

10:19 19:14 33:7

33:8 49:9 64:2

78:2,4 96:3 115:6

116:16 125:7

127:22 146:19

149:11 180:16,17

197:7 213:8

217:19 232:20

236:20,21 240:20

JIM 2:5

job 75:10

join 122:6 212:8

joined 167:5

joining 10:6

Jon 1:15 6:9 29:12

29:13 32:9 34:10

34:11 35:17 36:8

36:10 42:8,9

43:22 55:5 58:15

58:16 62:17,20

70:4,5 88:8 89:18

97:14,15 100:3,11

100:16 106:13,14

111:1 113:6,6

122:15 130:6

133:6 137:19

139:8 144:13,14

151:3 154:19

163:15 165:9,19

167:20 168:15

173:11,12 174:20

178:8 183:19

186:4,5 188:20

193:17 194:14

197:19 203:4,5

214:6 225:16

229:5 232:4

233:17 236:5

237:9 240:10

Jones 116:21

Jon's 48:5 115:16

193:14 198:16

jump 53:13,19 78:4

127:20 138:9

Justice 2:6

K

keep 9:20 10:9

32:16 51:6 99:21

129:8,17 130:1

132:6 140:10

keeping 106:21

Keith 116:21

134:16

kept 51:16

Kevin 1:17 7:13

key 84:6

kick 74:11

kill 242:4

kilowatt 205:15

235:19,21,22

236:1

kind 12:16 20:12

53:11 65:12 66:6

74:22 83:13,16

85:9 94:12 104:16

108:7,13 112:5

114:1 121:4,6,16

123:7 124:14

125:18,20 127:8

136:4 147:19

169:7 172:16

183:13 192:5,14

201:3 229:2

kinds 104:15

Klinke 1:16 3:13

3:15,17 7:4,4

52:18,19 53:16

74:3,3 75:2 141:4

141:5,6 146:10,21

147:6,9 150:21

151:9 161:20

162:10,15 163:3

167:14,15 170:2

170:21 175:18

184:14 204:4

239:7,8

knew 165:17,17

know 5:2 30:6 34:3

35:17 44:18 45:9

46:1 52:7 56:9,15
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 256

57:3,7 58:14

59:13 60:13 65:3

72:14,16 73:20

74:17 82:15 92:8

96:18 105:10

106:1 108:14

111:11 112:18

119:20 128:18

132:20 145:4

148:2 155:8 161:2

180:21 181:18

182:11,13,15

188:5 190:2 193:8

193:18 194:10,11

194:17 195:2

198:22 200:5,13

200:19 201:22

202:9,16 203:22

208:12,13 209:5

209:22 212:4

213:9 214:15

215:7,17,18,18

216:1,3 218:4

219:5 221:7,10

224:11,12,13

225:11 226:8,11

230:17 231:15

234:5

knowing 177:8

193:19

knowledge 212:1

known 91:2 152:2

knows 96:1 226:4

Kundu 1:16 6:13

6:13 52:3,3,16

53:9 54:2 63:3,3

63:10 64:22 66:1

66:8 94:7 95:17

100:10 116:8

180:5,5 215:14,14

Kurt 1:16 3:13,15

3:17 7:4 52:18

74:3 141:4,6

156:1 161:11

167:13,15 239:7

240:2

L

lab 7:3 26:1 31:20

31:20 57:7 81:19

83:19,22 84:1

159:1,2 161:17

163:19 188:18

label 107:20 208:8

212:13 213:7,14

215:8,21 216:8

217:4 228:22

labeled 153:1

labeling 6:5 215:16

217:3

laboratory 1:14,19

7:9 230:6

labs 6:10 23:21

25:22 34:8 56:20

82:19 85:16 155:4

226:7

laid 105:16

lamp 19:21 20:2

22:16,17,18 23:14

23:14,15 24:2,5,9

24:14 25:2 28:7,8

28:10,13,17 29:5

29:6,20 33:10,13

33:16,20 34:4,6

35:1,7 39:17,18

40:1 51:11 54:20

lamps 23:18,20

33:15

lamp's 28:13

LAN 185:14

language 87:11

93:19 124:22

191:3 201:3

239:14

large 53:19 70:16

189:11 227:7

larger 38:17 90:14

90:17,21 91:7

222:13

latest 31:6 91:14

134:13

Lawrence 1:14,19

7:3,9

lay 117:15

layer 56:17 106:10

LBL 75:5 133:6

leave 184:8 195:18

197:1 203:1

208:11 209:6

236:11 241:16

led 21:8 46:1 80:20

95:13

LEDs 46:1

left 6:1 76:22 83:4

167:12 182:12

legal 241:18

lend 33:2

lends 66:7

letter 11:20

let's 5:20 29:15

42:15,17 45:3

77:9 91:16 139:16

146:14 147:12

164:10 166:3

200:19 227:17

230:14 232:8

233:19,21

level 48:9 50:9,11

63:5 72:14 74:7

87:7 121:14 125:1

125:2,6 127:10

215:4 218:13

232:6 233:10

levels 61:22 70:13

70:15,19 71:2

83:6 119:1,7

124:11,19,21

126:20 127:6

164:4,9 225:21

light 17:20 19:20

20:1,22 21:10,11

21:17 22:10 23:1

24:3,8,16,22 25:2

25:10,10,15 28:8

28:12,14 30:12

38:20 39:5,9,10

39:13 40:3,8,19

41:9 43:12,20

44:7,15,18,21,22

45:12,20 47:3

50:1,7,19 52:1

57:22 67:17,21

69:4,8 74:10,14

74:19 119:7 171:5

175:17 192:15

238:18,21 240:13

lighting 45:18 46:1

124:11,20 125:2,6

222:2

lights 46:4

limit 9:21 81:6 84:2

84:4 202:6 223:6

223:7,16,17

226:14 230:1

234:13

limited 63:21 86:12

LINDA 2:8

line 82:3 138:12

226:5 230:9,16,18

230:21 232:3

link 14:13,14 49:7

links 14:3,7 15:2

241:8

list 11:21 12:2

162:4 202:18

listening 11:3

lists 34:14

literally 175:5

210:18

little 5:10 41:9 47:1

47:21 48:1,5

52:20 56:3 66:1

68:21 71:8 78:5

82:15 90:1,21

120:5 125:17

138:5 140:16

143:5 175:13

183:6 216:13

229:16 234:7

240:7

live 144:3 149:16

219:10,12

lively 11:14

lives 21:20

living 118:10

207:20

LLC 1:21

LMD 171:17,19

172:18 173:7,8

LMDs 171:7

172:16,22

load 181:17

local 185:14

location 207:8

locations 113:16

London 130:17

long 30:7 36:20

50:22 96:18

128:13 140:3

194:9,20

longer 18:16 37:13

37:18 194:17

229:16

look 5:15 11:13

32:1 34:16 38:4

45:7,19 46:7

47:20 48:1,20

67:2 83:13 84:7

86:11 105:22

116:21 118:18

124:9 156:3

221:22

looked 12:17 21:7

26:20 38:19 49:10

49:12,15,17 50:4

52:12 61:19

218:19,21

looking 13:15

31:10 44:16 45:9

78:16 79:17 80:19

85:21 104:13

119:17 124:15

187:4 212:16

225:20 234:4

looks 10:21 100:14

117:4 158:4

loop 182:2,3 184:1

loss 58:22

losses 47:18

lost 48:17

lot 57:2,6 60:21

65:8 117:22

118:20 127:7,7

129:5 135:18

137:20 138:1
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 257

149:6 166:1

188:18 197:5

199:13 200:5

202:14 208:15

215:7 219:10,14

219:17 220:2,3

222:14 228:2,3

230:16

lots 9:18

loud 199:10

louder 135:13

loudly 122:8

Louis 7:2 57:10

59:16 75:3,4

96:20,22 120:8

121:21 133:4,5

204:5 233:6

Louis-Benoit 1:14

3:18

low 3:16 8:20 18:19

37:7,8,20 70:13

70:14,19 71:2

184:16,20 185:3,7

185:9 186:1,7,17

186:22 187:19

188:4,7,9 191:12

193:15 204:20

206:11,15 207:18

210:16 214:5

225:21,21

lower 27:11 39:14

39:22 40:2 50:9

53:19 55:8 65:10

65:12 66:4 69:4

86:8 162:17

215:12 233:8

lowest 74:7

lumen 23:13 28:6

29:5 32:14

lumens 24:1

luminance 52:10

52:13,15,21,22

53:4,7 54:6 101:5

101:13 102:4

103:4 111:19

112:18 113:13

115:9 116:4

120:17,20 121:9

122:3,18 124:2

125:15 126:8,10

134:1 136:3 140:7

142:22 168:8

172:19 173:1,15

173:18 204:14

206:16 237:13

238:1,2,11,16,19

238:22 239:9,13

lunch 8:15,16

151:8 165:2 166:4

166:6

lux 18:3,5 20:4

26:4 37:8,15 40:5

41:14,15,16,18,18

48:16,16 53:19

57:14,14 58:11,21

59:4 61:14 62:3,5

62:7 65:10 66:6

67:8,10,12 68:1,4

68:12,15 69:6,22

70:7,13,14,19

71:2 72:14 73:22

74:1,13 79:21,22

80:2,7,12 83:6

237:17,19,22

238:13 239:20

240:12

M

Maciel 2:5 122:7

122:10,12

magnitude 200:14

mail 241:6

mailing 34:14

main 26:14 91:18

91:18 92:1,7,9,9

92:12,13,19

160:13 207:19

mains 93:11 99:14

99:18,18

maintain 91:16

maintaining 178:7

major 29:17

138:19

making 45:19

66:18,22 117:3

145:5 178:17

179:15,20 227:18

242:8

manager 4:18

77:15

mandate 97:17

98:4 192:8

mantra 32:21

manufactured 30:3

87:12 93:9 95:1,4

97:22 145:21

161:6

manufacturer

47:14,14 95:8

101:9 102:10

108:14,16 109:16

124:18 145:1,2

151:12,15,20,22

152:4,7,10,17

154:12 155:5

156:9 157:4,5,16

158:4,5 159:5,20

159:21 161:3,5,14

162:2 199:6 226:4

226:10 227:3

228:19 232:12

234:4,8

manufacturers

21:21 23:21 35:7

47:16 57:18 63:16

66:17 112:16

113:1 117:9,17

121:8 131:1

142:15 152:8,12

160:3 176:17,19

179:14 196:12

199:15 228:3,12

manufacturer's

46:4 196:16

margin 226:12

margins 226:20

market 30:9 98:1

98:16 108:7

123:21 176:12

201:16 202:8

222:12

marketed 94:9,10

94:16 97:3

marketplace 98:7

119:22 208:19

markets 35:12

material 31:1

maternity 241:16

matter 8:4,9

135:16 158:11,11

161:6 208:15

matters 135:17

148:14 158:13

161:7 208:14

231:7

MATTHEW 2:6

max 37:12 82:8

83:10,11 84:15,18

85:13 86:5,7

maximum 37:16

107:14 132:16

231:9

McMANUS 1:17

mean 39:3 64:3

71:16,19 81:6

83:8,22 84:1,4,10

84:15 85:12

100:20 114:20

116:8 125:8 132:4

132:6 148:22

149:14 150:2,5

156:2,7 158:3,15

159:1 161:4 165:7

165:9 180:10

186:13 190:9

193:20 197:16

198:21 199:17,22

200:3 223:5,15

225:1 228:15

232:21 233:10,14

233:19 234:13

239:19,22

means 37:15 76:16

102:7 124:22

212:4

meant 88:16

measure 39:22

52:14,21 60:22

68:1,15 70:15

91:22 110:11,11

122:18 123:12

124:2,9 126:6

134:22 136:7

137:15 181:21

182:5 183:12

211:14 214:21

215:2 216:4

220:12 222:3

226:20 230:4

238:1

measured 20:4

26:7,18 49:18

52:9 59:5 68:11

69:6 107:13 108:9

108:22 111:3

113:15 124:10

125:4,15 126:8,8

152:19 177:16

205:2 219:20

224:7 233:22

measurement

18:11 59:9 70:8

80:11,12 120:20

156:4 171:2,6

172:19 173:2,4

175:17 177:10

181:1,5 183:8,22

186:1 194:7 216:2

238:3

measurements

153:7 182:7

measures 134:14

measuring 48:17

49:21 50:14 67:14

69:10 70:19 72:6

106:17 107:5

112:6 120:2 126:5

127:4 135:20

136:1,3 139:3

148:14 156:6

177:4 193:17

211:14 214:5

237:13 238:16

median 82:4 83:8

84:10
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 258

medium 85:12

meet 5:3 33:20

107:4 168:19

meeting 1:3,8 4:8

4:20,21 5:8 9:16

11:4 13:11 17:1

17:11 19:9 61:16

77:6 78:8 86:21

92:17 122:22

130:16,17 135:2

145:5 150:16

214:9 227:5

236:21 242:16

meetings 10:8

134:16 138:16

meets 168:2,5

member 122:21

memo 155:3

memory 204:9

mention 89:22

215:1

mentioned 4:20

29:21 55:6 66:3

67:6 106:20 113:6

154:20 155:1

mentions 123:11

menu 101:9,22

102:11,12 103:4

103:11,12,13,20

103:21 124:16,17

125:9,17,18

128:10 130:17

131:6,9,13,14

132:21 133:2,8

137:12,19 139:5

189:2 190:15

191:22 193:7,7

196:1,2,10,18,21

197:11 198:3,6,17

239:20,21

menus 238:13

met 174:16

meter 30:22,22

36:18 48:7,14

49:17,21 50:1

51:17,21 53:4

56:1,6,6,8,13,19

57:8,12,13 58:2,3

58:3,21 59:2,4,14

59:20 60:1,2,8

72:8,9 171:20

172:2,5,6,10,13

174:3,6 175:3,9

238:22

meters 30:20,21

50:18 54:18 57:17

70:16,22 72:6,13

173:15,18,20,22

174:11,18,22

method 22:18

67:13,16 69:21

71:19 72:10,12

75:16 79:3 82:1

83:1 85:3 86:1

184:18 185:5

238:17

methods 67:12

68:6,8 69:19

82:22

metric 19:2 30:17

61:13 62:14 64:14

65:15 204:19,22

205:3,6 206:17,22

208:11 209:4,16

209:21 210:2

216:14 217:13

metrics 3:18 9:3

18:22 26:14 204:6

204:8,11 205:9

206:14,21

MICHAEL 1:17

microphone 77:12

213:20

microphones 6:2

10:1

middle 33:6 82:3,4

133:13 134:3

mid-afternoon 9:1

9:2

mid-morning 8:11

8:13

mile 227:12

miles 227:10,13

min 82:8 83:10,11

84:16,18 85:13

86:5,7

mind 51:6 129:14

225:3

minds 197:5

minimal 74:2

minimize 36:22

minimized 90:9

minimum 30:21

74:9 81:2 223:1

234:2

Minolta 56:6

minor 29:17 30:14

minus 30:22 31:6,7

32:14 171:8,8,9

171:10,15 172:2,9

172:13 223:9,20

227:10

minute 182:6,8

194:5 205:14

237:3 242:4,12

minutes 76:9

135:11 165:4

181:4 182:4 194:6

194:8,18,21

misleading 207:16

208:8,19 210:18

211:20 212:6

221:14

missed 155:3

239:16

missing 237:11

mistake 138:22

mistaken 210:22

mm 41:22

mode 3:16 8:19,20

9:21 18:12,14,14

18:19 64:10,15

75:1 106:2,19

109:10,11,19,19

110:10 111:13,14

111:17,18,20

112:4,6,11,13

113:2,19,20,20

116:4,10 118:21

119:21 120:6,11

122:19 123:2,10

123:10,13 124:3,9

124:12 131:8,13

131:16,19,19,20

133:11 134:10,14

134:15 135:22

137:16 138:14,14

139:1,4 140:3,4,8

140:8 142:22

147:20 148:13

150:3 175:20,22

176:2,9 177:9,11

178:1,3,6,7 180:7

180:8 184:6,11,16

184:20,21 185:1,4

185:7,9 186:1

187:13 188:20,22

189:3,4,6,10,15

189:19 190:8,10

190:12,19 191:1

191:12,12,13,22

192:2,10 194:1

196:4 197:12,14

197:15 198:19,20

199:1,2,3,4,18

204:12,13,18,20

206:11 209:5,13

225:19 237:13

238:11

model 46:7 81:3,15

110:12 177:18

196:5 226:11

modeled 50:1

modeling 45:7

models 46:3 81:13

212:17 226:16

modems 203:16

Moderator 1:9,12

modern 203:17

modernized 13:2

modes 189:18

205:13 209:6

216:5 235:11

modify 28:12

moment 122:18

monetary 231:12

money 219:15

220:2 229:14

monitor 98:1 164:1

month 13:8 147:22

148:19 149:7

220:9

MORGAN 2:5

morning 4:5,13,14

4:17 7:19 79:5,20

80:15 167:6

Morrissey 1:17

7:13,13

move 13:16 16:19

37:2 63:8 72:22

86:18,20 100:8

140:17 150:22

171:1 175:19

222:13 239:6

moved 222:12

movies 164:17,17

moving 19:10 61:8

76:2 100:22

140:18 170:22

200:20 222:17

234:21

muddying 100:6

multiple 160:3

182:2 198:8

206:21 209:10

226:21

multiplied 205:13

multiply 172:1,7

205:14

mute 10:10

N

n 223:9,20

name 4:11 6:3 9:14

77:18,20 141:6

167:15 188:11

nanometers 40:18

40:18 46:16,17

narrow 175:1

national 1:14,19

7:9 168:11 219:7

natural 47:1

nature 144:21

Navigant 1:16,17

1:20 2:7 7:4,7,14
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 259

19:15 52:19 74:4

141:7 167:15

239:8

ND 16:5 68:13 69:5

69:11 70:17,21

71:5 72:10,11

73:4,6,7 75:18,19

near 39:2,7

nearest 30:19

235:13,15,17,20

235:22

nearly 32:8 120:16

necessarily 34:18

64:9 79:15 105:20

130:10 132:10

148:22 186:12

199:22 211:1

218:10 240:16

necessary 72:12

119:2 123:12

194:17 224:12

225:2

NEEA 1:21

need 23:4 32:22

64:16 66:21 99:22

112:12 119:12

126:21 130:21

147:4 189:16

194:8 200:16

217:4 221:4,7,7

226:11 227:12

240:16

needed 20:2 32:20

47:14 88:15

194:19 225:20

229:10

needs 56:17 74:10

188:2 192:6,11

213:6 239:1

negative 30:9

neither 187:22

network 185:5,10

185:14,17 186:3

186:11,18 187:8

187:10,15 193:21

201:11

networking 203:11

203:14,21

networks 176:14

network-enabled

176:14 184:22

186:15

neutral 16:6 49:4

67:16,19 68:2

never 94:21 121:10

121:17 155:21

202:22 230:11,15

new 5:10 17:6 18:9

18:18 21:17 22:4

56:16 62:10 87:22

98:15,21,22 104:2

128:4 130:21

134:18 142:21

151:12,15,16

167:4 188:2

203:13 206:8

newer 117:6 168:16

nice 203:19

Nielsen 205:21,22

211:13

night 45:17

nit 188:10

nits 108:16,17,22

109:12,13,13,14

109:17,18 110:4

nodding 62:18

non 21:10

nonissue 137:13

non-compliance

232:1

non-contact 173:3

173:19 174:5

175:3

non-on-mode

223:12

NOPR 14:13 15:17

17:3,10,14,22

18:13 19:8,19

20:10 21:18 23:16

33:11 61:11,16

87:9,18 88:3 93:8

93:20 95:2,10

101:4,8 121:7

143:7 171:4

175:21 176:4

184:15 204:10

205:1,3,6,17

206:2

NOPR's 20:20

normal 91:19

138:11 184:22

normalize 69:9

normally 161:22

195:11

normative 90:9

178:14,18

Northwest 6:17

notate 169:1

note 12:3 25:12

40:13,15 51:5

62:6 65:14 79:18

139:15 152:3

153:7 163:9

noted 135:7,11

139:13 156:20

notes 100:12

121:19

notice 4:7,21 7:20

11:8 13:5,9,21

14:9,12

noticeable 119:14

noticed 38:2 43:9

120:10

notion 135:15

not-so-good 183:9

Novum 2:2

NTSC 168:12

169:6

nuances 127:7

number 14:19 18:6

32:11 65:4 73:11

98:11 175:4 176:9

177:12 182:22

188:5 207:16

208:6,20 211:6,20

212:3,5,13 215:8

219:7,11 220:1,6

225:3 230:8,15,21

numbers 75:21

146:6 182:16

207:13 212:17

214:12 219:4,16

219:18,19 220:18

220:21 221:8

224:21

NYS 2:8

O

OAG 2:8

objection 58:19

observations 21:8

37:5 53:15

observed 21:14

53:10 83:14

obsolete 203:11

obstruct 120:20

obtain 34:9

obvious 138:1

obviously 33:16

54:21 80:14 82:22

189:20 201:16

232:22 233:2

occasionally 138:9

occurred 40:14

62:3,4 65:10

151:14

occurring 159:19

odd 109:15

odds 107:1

offered 94:20

offering 197:21

Office 6:19 241:15

off-mode 204:13

205:20 206:12

209:13 210:16

oftentimes 120:12

120:22

oh 8:19 110:13

145:7,13 146:22

162:14 178:21

198:4 221:19

ohm 201:13 202:5

202:11 203:7,9

okay 4:3 7:15 9:10

12:12,14 15:4

35:16,19 36:3

37:1 50:22 60:10

61:5 62:22 63:7

66:8 67:5 71:14

72:20 86:19 87:2

87:3 97:6,13 99:7

100:21 110:13

111:8 115:20

116:15 121:21

124:4 129:12

134:20 136:6

137:13,13 139:8

140:11,17 146:18

146:21 150:3,18

151:9 159:16

161:8 162:14

163:2 164:21

165:2 166:3

167:11 170:1

175:16,17 178:20

180:4,18 183:3

184:2,13,14 188:9

188:13 198:15,21

202:17 203:1

204:2 208:14

209:7 212:20

213:1,12 214:6

215:21 216:10

225:7 227:21

229:19 232:20

233:17 234:15,18

234:20 236:9,15

236:17 239:5,6,17

240:18,21

older 203:13

once 36:9 60:1

66:13,15 71:5

92:6 114:13

169:11 179:11

182:5,7 209:16

onerous 228:18

ones 125:15 231:6

231:7

one-to-one 90:4

on-mode 3:8 8:9

15:21 17:17 18:1

19:13,17 24:12

64:4,17,18 65:22

66:20 80:3 84:9

85:14,15 126:15
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 260

204:12 205:19

206:9,14 209:13

210:15 214:2

223:3,11

on-tailed 223:20

open 89:14

opening 3:3 8:2

12:8,10,11

operate 189:4

operated 99:16

operating 44:19

189:3

operation 184:22

235:12

opportunity 8:1

9:6 12:10 111:2

119:10 237:6

opposed 108:1

138:2 142:10

opposite 157:15

160:9

optimized 118:4,5

option 116:12

133:1 139:10

191:3

options 125:21

190:15

order 23:5 30:16

39:20 41:11 51:18

64:3,19 68:6

74:11 79:10 96:16

141:16 142:20

143:1 176:18

180:1 181:14

221:8 227:19

orders 200:14

organization 66:12

organizational 6:3

original 12:19 13:5

94:13 107:7

167:17 170:22

205:17

originally 17:3

33:9 125:18

146:13 176:10

Osram 35:8

outlet 25:3

output 19:1 24:3,8

28:8 43:14,15

44:14 57:13 58:4

61:13 62:14 64:17

65:15 66:10,20

115:8,13 149:1

164:2 179:21

180:11 181:12,14

204:10,19,21

205:3,9 206:14,21

209:11

outputs 18:22 64:6

64:9,20 209:10

outputting 58:11

outset 8:5

outside 30:4 159:1

179:18 230:6

overall 31:15 53:20

53:22 169:15

227:13 228:16

overlay 133:9

overseeing 4:18

overview 8:7 13:20

16:21 17:2,12

20:8,13

P

P 64:14 65:15 80:8

83:17

pace 14:19

packet 7:18,19

242:11

padding 234:7

page 3:2 14:17

42:16 73:6,14,15

202:2 242:10

pages 42:15 241:9

PAL 169:13

Panasonic 1:20 6:8

135:5 155:18

PAR 28:6 29:20

32:10 33:3,4

parallel 25:14

parameters 102:12

paraphrasing

179:9

parked 105:18

part 50:14 56:14

78:7 80:17 82:4,6

83:4,5 85:17 95:8

113:7 118:11

120:18 128:18

134:3 137:21

138:18 163:21

178:14,18 181:12

185:8 195:3,6,6

205:7,9 209:14

217:8,13,15

222:21 235:18

236:18 239:13

participants 10:3

11:12 122:6

136:12

participate 176:19

particular 99:4

146:17 155:11,17

212:15 240:14

particularly 15:20

79:18

parties 5:17 29:2

42:5 62:15 94:4

144:10 154:16

173:6 178:5,16

185:22 206:20

party 163:18

pass 46:18 55:13,18

56:12 58:22 132:2

204:5 227:20

232:16

passed 55:10

passing 116:1

passive 214:3

pass's 55:6

patch 174:7 175:4

pattern 181:20,20

182:20

peek 36:4

people 34:7,16

64:11 82:16 105:6

105:18 108:3

130:13,15 131:6

136:5 137:20,22

138:17 169:1

208:12 210:18

211:17,20 219:12

219:15,18 220:13

222:1 224:8

perceive 107:11

perceived 28:13

108:9

percent 27:19,20

32:14 55:12,13

62:2 65:7 67:21

69:1,18 82:5,6

83:11 84:13,17

85:13 86:2,2,4,6,8

86:9 107:14

109:12 110:5

114:7 115:4

132:15 135:8,8

148:12 154:3

171:8,9 172:1

174:13,16,18

202:8 223:8,19

231:15,19

percentage 48:16

55:18 123:20

127:3 176:12

perception 199:16

perfect 212:14

perform 26:15

80:12 81:15

144:11 149:22

176:18 224:18

performance 112:2

126:20 138:8

190:7 199:8,11,12

199:16,17,18

200:4

performed 14:22

15:22 17:5 22:13

37:5 40:7,10 68:7

79:6 81:18 82:19

88:5 143:15

performing 16:7

163:20

period 26:6 53:1,8

90:7 182:5 214:15

214:16

periodically 120:14

183:12

perpendicular

24:14 25:16 28:19

person 5:17 12:9

210:5 229:15

perspective 37:9

104:14 105:4

116:9 126:19

127:5 128:13

Petrolati 5:6

phase 22:7

phased 33:15

phasing 23:19

Phillips 35:8

philosophy 90:2

phone 136:20

phones 9:21

pick 71:21 221:5

picking 188:10

picture 89:5 91:20

99:14,19 100:1

101:2,5,7,8,10,11

101:11,15,16,18

101:21,22 102:1,3

102:6,8,9,16,20

102:22 103:1,3,6

103:8,9,10,14,14

103:17,18,19

104:3,4,5,7,19

105:2 106:2,6

110:22 111:4

114:5,9 115:1,10

115:12 125:13,14

126:3,4,7,16

128:4,6 129:19,21

130:1,3 131:4

143:19 151:13,16

151:16 152:3,13

152:18 153:1,3,6

153:8,10,16,19,20

153:22 154:2,6,14

154:14 156:12,13

156:16,18 158:6

161:16,21 162:3

162:13 163:10,13

195:15

pictures 102:8

Pinto 1:18 6:18,18
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 261

216:22 217:1

pipe 24:22 25:2

pixel 175:7,14

pixels 175:5

place 23:14 33:14

50:10 68:16 88:17

107:6,22 118:13

146:9

placed 25:8 28:18

29:6 40:22 42:1

49:19 51:1,3,11

59:22 68:14 154:1

placement 17:21

places 42:6 118:21

119:5 145:22

placing 68:2

plain 212:5

plan 9:10 19:4 81:2

81:12 222:19,22

224:1 232:22

235:7

plane 25:14 29:8

planning 61:4

150:22 221:9

played 22:21

player 144:4 148:9

151:11,15,19,21

152:9,9,15,16,16

153:4,6,17 154:7

155:8,10,12

157:17 159:20

161:15 162:1,2,7

163:7,19 165:14

players 152:6,11,21

153:9,14,19 154:5

160:4 162:18

163:5

player-TV 163:12

playing 215:4

please 4:3 6:2 7:10

9:13,14,20 10:9

10:13 32:5 77:17

99:8 127:22 153:7

165:5 167:7

173:10 242:11

pleased 219:13

plots 81:21

plug 148:15

plugged 151:11,19

151:21 152:14

153:13,16

plugs 108:21

plus 30:22 31:5,7

32:14 171:7,8,9

171:10,15 172:2,9

172:13 227:10

point 28:22 32:10

42:14 44:6 53:4

74:1 94:22 96:5

115:16,19 149:14

158:15 159:18,22

221:14 224:6

232:21 233:5

235:5 236:14

pointed 46:15 55:9

137:19

points 26:3 47:17

54:13 62:13 64:19

65:6,11 66:6 67:9

82:21 193:18

209:8 216:12

policymaking

66:11

pollute 238:19

Pon 83:22 84:1

85:22 86:5

poor 194:2

pop 11:17 120:14

133:17

popped 197:11

pops 125:9

population 123:21

portion 93:13

171:15 172:8

position 24:13

71:10 219:3

positioned 19:21

positive 31:4

possibilities 201:12

possibility 94:20

108:12 162:11

possible 21:12

31:21 34:7 88:10

102:16 111:16,18

118:9 123:7

124:17 134:9,10

139:4,4,11 140:10

142:8 144:6

163:22 169:16

177:4 191:17

possibly 43:2 71:3

88:18

posted 49:3

potential 33:19

57:9 108:15

121:16 129:16,17

197:10 206:6

potentially 29:18

36:16 46:8 69:7

119:19 131:22

149:2 182:14

207:16 238:20

power 2:3 20:16

21:12 23:2 24:17

26:7 37:10,12,16

37:19 38:6 39:4

41:5 50:16 52:8

53:22 54:5 61:3

64:4,10,14,17

65:22 71:18 73:18

78:10,19 80:3,11

80:12 84:9,20

85:14,14 91:19,22

92:8 99:14,18,19

107:19 108:22

109:1 122:19

126:5,6,16 131:10

135:1,9,18,21

137:20 143:11,22

147:21 151:17

152:18 153:13,15

153:18,22 154:4,5

156:4 159:6

160:12 162:17

176:22 177:4,10

177:15,17,18

180:22 181:7,12

181:17,21 182:13

183:2,9,9 186:1

189:13 191:12

197:14,18 200:7

204:11,21 205:2

205:12 206:14,18

207:4 209:5,12

212:18 220:22

221:9 222:4 223:3

223:11,12 225:21

230:14 233:7

powered 93:11

PowerPoint 7:19

practical 177:5,7

practice 67:19

practitioners

161:17

preceding 173:10

predetermined

102:12

predictable 61:3

predictive 60:19

preface 16:22 79:4

79:13 86:13

prefer 137:15

183:1

preference 129:8

169:16 170:15

preferred 118:22

prepared 219:3

preprogrammed

102:10

presence 158:8

present 1:11 2:1

11:5,18

presentation 11:16

14:15,18 16:18

81:10 167:17

171:1 237:2

presented 73:6

191:4 196:9 197:1

198:6

presents 52:7

157:21

preset 89:4 102:6,8

102:16,20 103:1

103:19 104:3,4,19

105:21 106:5

109:11 110:22

111:4 114:4,9,20

115:1,11 125:13

128:5 129:19,21

130:1,3 151:13

161:21 162:3

presets 109:9

presiding 1:10

pressed 25:4

presses 138:21

pretty 51:20 110:6

140:14 156:6

220:12

prevent 154:12

157:5,10

previous 42:18

67:7 106:7 145:4

156:1 183:21

227:8

previously 18:12

144:18

pre-selectable

105:14 127:17

129:6 132:9 133:2

primarily 93:11

99:13,17

primary 64:6 144:2

144:11 148:4,12

206:3

prior 68:15 78:7

131:1 235:8

prioritizing 145:17

priority 145:20

probability 160:1

probable 69:2

probably 47:20

128:15 135:19

148:2 149:19

151:7 155:6

168:16 187:17

202:1,21 220:18

problem 31:19

33:3 57:9 99:6,9

111:11 132:12

192:5 208:4

231:10

problematic 72:5

problems 32:10

procedure 1:3 4:8

4:19 11:4,6,8 12:8
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 262

12:18,19 13:3,10

13:14,18 17:9

19:1 31:9 34:2

42:21 58:19 61:1

64:6,20 66:13,16

66:18 79:7 81:16

82:20 100:15

103:22 113:17

115:14 140:9

142:4 149:1,2

150:1 176:1,6,7

177:22 179:3,8,12

179:19,22 180:1,9

180:12 181:2,6,7

181:15 185:12,18

192:6,12,15 193:4

202:1,3 204:22

209:12,17 210:4

216:3,4,9,15,16

216:18 217:2,2,5

217:9,15 221:12

222:21

procedures 15:7,14

15:16 178:14

224:14

proceed 12:13

137:6 167:12

process 20:9

produce 47:3 227:4

produced 39:12

47:1 101:12

produces 24:2 39:8

43:17 103:4

producing 44:21

126:9

product 93:9,17

94:2,16,19 95:5

95:12,16

production 230:5

productive 236:21

products 35:11

93:21 94:1 96:1

98:2 105:8 225:11

228:3

professional 164:1

profile 210:7,8

213:10 216:19

217:14,21 218:10

220:5,8

program 6:6 15:10

104:14 114:18

126:20 127:13

217:10,10,11

programmatic

105:4 114:10

118:2 132:14

programs 222:6

project 2:4 4:17

77:14

prompt 121:16

196:1,2,9

prompted 111:15

196:14,17,21

198:11,16,18

199:14 200:2

prompts 125:10

pronounced 122:7

proof 132:19

properly 163:20

proposal 17:6 18:4

22:10 42:5 62:12

62:16 112:20

144:11 197:4

225:10

proposals 87:4

propose 30:18

169:18

proposed 4:7,22

11:6,8 13:5,9

14:10,12 17:3

18:1,13 19:19

21:17 22:3 33:9

61:11,13,18 62:7

67:11 70:3,18

93:6,8 94:14

101:4 102:6 103:2

103:9,16 106:12

115:13 117:2

122:3 130:2 141:9

141:11,22 144:1

154:10 171:2,4

175:19,21 178:2

185:3,10 186:3

201:11 204:8,10

204:21 206:8

213:5 224:1 236:4

proposes 222:21

223:13

proposing 18:4,16

28:3,5 41:22

62:10 63:13 64:13

64:21 67:7,9 70:7

79:2 80:15 93:16

102:21 103:7

115:8 126:5 128:2

150:2 192:19

204:17

proprietary 151:13

151:16 152:2,17

153:3,8,18,22

154:13,14 155:19

156:13 161:16,19

162:8,13 165:12

protocol 203:11

protrude 36:14,21

88:10

prove 30:9 140:6

provide 14:20

16:20 17:2,12

23:9 33:12 64:19

78:9,19 81:1

87:13 112:12

149:8 150:12

176:5,17 179:8,17

221:12

provided 11:2

15:12 19:4 171:16

241:22

provides 20:8

177:3

providing 15:18

99:14,19,22

148:17 180:15

217:14 222:7

proximity 39:17

42:22 44:12

proxy 51:20

public 1:3,8,12 4:8

4:12 5:8 11:4

13:11 17:1,11,11

61:16 86:21

118:21 123:19

157:2 177:14

214:9

publication 13:4

publicly 221:20

public's 178:18

publish 13:15,17

209:4,5 219:15

226:12

published 13:8

17:10 184:18

227:5

publishing 211:20

219:5

pull 14:5,17

pulled 14:6

pulling 49:2

pump 207:6 210:20

punt 92:20

purchases 108:20

purpose 11:3

purposes 80:7

81:10,16 126:14

220:3

push 201:15

put 31:11 33:14

37:8 48:13,21

57:2,5 58:20 60:4

73:3 75:12 91:12

145:8 168:22

169:12 178:14

181:19 182:20

190:12,19 208:13

211:6,9 213:14

220:1,21 237:22

putting 56:16

164:3,9 190:8

208:20 210:3,10

210:19 216:14

228:22 239:20

PVC 24:21 25:2

P-R-O-C-E-E-D-...

4:1

p.m 166:6 167:2

242:15

Q

qualify 232:9,13

quartile 82:5,7

question 10:12

33:18 44:11 46:5

47:11 48:5,22

52:5 53:9 63:11

65:1 66:15 73:5

73:20 94:7 100:11

113:8 116:17

122:14,20 124:7

124:14 129:13

133:6 136:13

151:4 156:22

161:11 170:2

189:5 193:12

195:20 197:8

233:18

questioned 194:8

questions 9:11

42:12 86:17

241:17,18

queue 124:5 160:22

236:12

quick 36:4 59:17

133:6 138:13

158:16 189:3,4,14

190:8,9,12,19

191:1,7,16 192:2

194:2 195:2 196:4

196:21 198:20

199:9 200:3

quickly 13:17 55:6

71:16 77:1 78:17

149:5 204:8 229:9

240:22

quite 13:7 15:6

59:20 75:15,17

106:2 118:21

119:7 122:16

149:6 182:22

201:21 219:2

228:6,14

quoted 30:15

R

racing 191:8

Radio 168:10
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 263

Radulovic 1:18

77:13,14,19,20,22

104:10,11 109:2

109:20 110:2,3,13

110:19 111:8

113:22 115:15,20

117:8 126:12

128:12 132:4

161:10,11 162:5

162:14 163:2

212:22 213:3

raise 10:12,13

11:12 136:12

169:14

raised 122:6 123:4

raises 195:21

random 232:14,15

RANDY 2:2

range 38:15,17

44:20

ranged 85:22 86:3

ranging 86:8

rarely 62:4

rate 183:14

rated 112:9

rating 19:6 81:4,5

84:3,20 86:3,7

107:19

ratings 3:18 9:3

85:20

ratio 26:16 39:14

39:16 45:10 54:21

107:14 110:9

114:7 115:9,12

121:9 126:10,22

130:12 204:14

206:16

rationale 63:22

ratios 127:15

raw 78:9,15 82:17

83:2 85:4

ray 144:4 152:16

153:4,6 155:6

162:1 163:19

RCA 168:10

reach 5:7 40:2

46:14

reached 16:17

37:16

reaches 37:11,11

reaction 157:15

162:21

readily 33:17

reading 175:7

ready 96:21 120:1

real 37:22 41:21

43:2 46:11 56:20

106:16 121:1

138:12 229:14

231:20

realistic 227:15

really 32:22,22

34:5 49:20 53:6

54:17 55:16,20

56:17 57:2 64:16

72:6 74:11 84:6

85:7 90:10 92:10

104:18 107:4

114:10,14,15

117:15 119:19

123:12 124:1

136:6 138:9

148:14 161:17

175:10 186:22

187:4 194:8

202:11 203:10

214:20 219:1,2,22

228:9 231:7

240:22

reason 23:16 38:13

52:20 59:21 60:9

60:15 69:2 89:9

92:6 93:19 94:18

97:8 107:12 122:2

135:12 138:19

191:2 229:4

232:22

reasonable 36:19

71:20 91:10 197:4

225:12

reasonably 108:4

reasons 176:9

178:11 179:3

209:2

rebate 217:10

recall 237:18

recap 206:13

receive 43:11

received 7:17 17:14

22:8 61:16 121:7

121:10 123:9

receiver 97:1

100:19,19

receives 95:5

recess 166:7

recognize 51:22

63:20

recollection 238:10

recommend 178:13

188:1,8 204:1

220:20 221:13

242:2

recommendation

202:6 209:1

recommended

101:8 112:5

recommending

110:16 201:5

record 9:15 77:7,8

175:2 218:4 238:6

recorded 26:8

records 85:20

recreated 171:18

red 38:10 41:4

reduce 59:13 86:15

233:1

reduced 69:7

reducing 24:22

74:18 233:3

reduction 48:11

redundant 140:16

reevaluate 61:18

reevaluated 103:6

reevaluation 61:19

refer 171:6 176:2

241:2

reference 25:14

28:22 29:8 87:17

87:21 142:3,19

176:1 192:19

referenced 95:2

referred 11:9 21:1

25:7

referring 37:10

reflect 33:13

reflection 36:22

88:11,19 238:21

reflective 36:16

reflector 23:18

refresh 204:9

regarding 89:19

100:12 146:5

167:19 168:15

169:5 224:1

regardless 51:4

65:18 198:2

regards 123:3,18

170:4 239:8

region 55:19 134:2

219:19

regional 219:4

Register 7:20 13:21

13:22

regularly 220:12

regulated 24:4,9

28:17 29:9

regulating 224:15

regulation 113:18

regulations 14:1

179:13 230:2

regulations.gov

16:12 27:1 49:3,6

78:12 82:18 241:7

regulators 179:6

193:19

regulatory 66:16

134:17 224:21

239:14

relate 43:19

related 6:11 14:8

18:8 54:6 63:11

relates 15:20

relation 22:17

38:13

relative 26:18,19

123:22

relatively 37:7,20

63:21 73:22 75:8

97:21

relay 43:15

released 61:21

168:18

relevant 219:12

241:9

relied 65:5

remain 24:11 142:6

remarks 3:19 4:14

8:3 9:4,8 12:8,10

remember 73:10

97:11 135:2,4

231:4 237:20

reminded 169:10

remote 187:11

190:17

removable 92:2

removal 104:7

173:8 178:5

remove 92:3,12,13

93:16 95:13

102:21 103:7

178:2,13 204:18

removed 18:15

92:2 142:8 172:20

233:20

removing 178:9

179:3 204:1

rep 81:17 86:7

repealed 12:20

repeat 223:10

238:5,6

repeatability 21:5

23:10 24:2 25:20

26:12 32:20 33:2

33:21 55:3 70:16

71:13 79:11 150:7

158:19 159:1

162:12 163:1

171:9 172:20

173:8 182:10

183:11

repeatable 23:5

28:2 31:16 46:12

51:4 149:22

182:19

repeated 69:12
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 264

repeatedly 227:5

repercussions

134:4

report 19:5 27:1

56:2,3 61:20,21

62:1 63:16 78:7

78:14 81:20 82:14

139:13 210:1

212:11 214:19

230:8,13,14

231:14 234:1,2,8

reported 18:22

64:7 83:8 213:6

222:20

reporting 126:15

209:20 210:11,14

210:14 211:4

233:15

reports 14:21

represent 65:7 82:7

176:11

representation

66:22 150:9 159:6

179:21 180:2

206:5 209:18

211:1 233:16

235:4

representations

66:18 179:15

representative 19:6

41:21 46:14 63:19

70:10 79:11 81:4

81:5 84:3,20 86:2

136:9 164:12,19

184:21 212:16,18

215:10 224:7

233:16

represented 223:3

223:14 233:7

representing

215:20 235:2

represents 20:11

reproducibility

25:20 26:12 32:21

33:21 55:3 79:10

150:7

reproducible 28:2

149:22

request 13:4 123:5

144:10

requested 22:11

171:12 172:15

requesting 11:19

128:8

requests 70:2 78:8

104:1,6 154:15

178:4 185:21

186:2 201:11

206:19 223:22

236:3

require 131:22

176:16 185:5

205:2 228:7

237:17

required 30:17

39:19 44:13

123:15 141:15

171:13 172:12

212:11 217:1,22

224:22

requirement 36:12

88:3 108:2 109:12

112:3,7 130:12

142:11 144:1

145:6 172:21

173:1,8 174:16

224:10 225:2

227:16 228:9

requirements

15:10 19:5 23:4

33:20 142:1,2,5

142:18 171:3,5

172:9,17,18 173:7

179:18 235:1,11

236:4,10

requires 55:15

81:12 171:22

177:7,15 180:22

181:22 211:1

214:1 224:6 236:8

requiring 144:22

209:11

research 17:5

20:14,18 23:8

38:22 43:8 135:6

176:6 183:6

218:11

researcher 135:4

resemble 60:18

reset 112:12 138:15

139:2

residing 34:18

resolution 172:6,7

resolve 186:20

respond 39:4 41:9

45:14 71:16 74:15

98:17 116:18

responded 214:17

response 37:17

38:2,7,17 41:5,7

47:22 54:11 57:15

57:21 58:8 74:8

74:12,20 195:1

responses 163:16

responsible 217:14

rest 160:12

restaurants 119:6

restrooms 76:18

result 35:21 41:10

83:20 156:17,19

158:18 159:2

resulted 78:11

resulting 68:3,19

143:21

results 14:20 16:10

16:16 41:4 50:5

51:6,16 55:21

60:17 61:2,17

69:15 71:12 72:2

78:19,22 79:3,9

80:19,21 81:18,22

82:11 83:2 85:19

156:14 159:9,11

233:2,13

resume 76:16 77:3

77:9 166:4

retail 101:5,10,15

101:16,22 102:1

102:21 103:21

104:7 105:1,13,19

106:19 107:10,13

108:17 109:7,13

109:19 110:4,10

110:11,21 111:3

111:14,17,18,21

112:4,6,11,13

113:2,19 114:2,3

114:7,20 115:1

116:4,12 117:14

117:16 118:21

119:5,10,21 120:6

120:11 122:19

123:2,10,12 124:2

124:20 125:11

127:13,17 128:3

129:5,20,22 130:5

130:9,14 131:14

131:16,18 132:3,8

133:8 134:10,14

137:11,16,19

138:2,4,14 139:1

139:3 140:3,7

215:1

retailed 121:14

retailer 95:5 138:7

138:20

retailers 105:7

retaining 62:12

retirement 5:15

reveal 192:7

review 7:22 8:1

78:22 85:6

reviewing 15:8

79:9

RICHARD 2:3

right 8:15 19:11

20:7 24:21 25:7

44:13 47:21 51:11

51:13,17 62:19

67:5 76:5,9 78:17

84:7,8 85:8 107:8

110:8 111:8 128:1

136:8,8 150:8

154:8 159:3

164:13 170:21

173:13 175:5,18

182:12 186:19

187:18 191:17

219:19 225:14

230:18 232:7

238:3 239:2

RJ-11 185:20

201:13 202:5,15

203:16

road 227:12

robin 21:4,7 25:18

26:22 27:5 37:4

40:15 57:1 61:17

78:7,11,13,20

79:5,9,17,19 80:1

80:2,6,18,20

81:20 82:11,14

83:3,15 86:13

143:9,12

robust 31:16

role 22:22

room 1:8 10:11

16:3 17:20 18:2

35:9 64:11 65:4

88:1,7,16,17,20

88:21 89:13 117:9

118:10 140:22

166:5 202:13

rooms 206:7

Rosenquist 1:19

7:8,8

Rotolo 1:20 3:9,10

3:12 7:6,6 19:12

19:14,15 37:3

43:8 44:8 46:9

47:19 48:19 49:10

52:14 54:7 59:10

61:7,9 65:8 66:5

67:6 72:21 73:21

76:2 87:3 93:5

94:12 101:1 120:9

125:16 133:15

140:19 141:3

159:17 163:9

174:10 192:14

240:4

roughly 179:9

round 21:4,7 25:18

26:22 27:5 37:4

40:14 57:1 61:17
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 265

78:7,11,13,20

79:5,9,17,19 80:1

80:2,6,18,20

81:20 82:11,14

83:2,14 86:12

143:9,12

rounded 235:4,8,13

235:15,17,20,22

236:2

rounding 19:4

235:1,11 236:4,8

236:10

rulemaking 3:5 4:7

4:18,22 5:4 8:6

11:9,11 12:15

13:1,6,9,16 14:7,9

14:10,12,17 16:13

49:7 200:21 241:4

241:10

rulemakings 89:2

rules 11:1 98:21

ruling 99:17 232:7

running 182:3

R&D 2:2

S

safe 229:1 242:14

sake 126:9

salience 99:3,6,10

sample 81:6 148:3

223:1,5 224:7

232:14,16

sampling 19:4 81:2

81:12 222:19,22

224:1,10 225:3

232:22 233:6

235:7

satellite 164:16

saturate 37:9 41:14

50:9,11 240:17

saturated 37:7

41:15

saturates 41:10

saturating 53:18

saturation 37:20

40:4 41:19 42:17

42:19 44:13 53:11

75:1

save 137:20

saving 130:20

savings 218:12

saw 68:20 69:18

72:1 88:13 94:21

109:8 156:10

174:11

saying 49:16 56:16

58:9 74:5 75:22

90:22 100:3

110:10 111:2

118:9 121:8,11

137:15,21 138:17

147:19

says 59:4 112:3

124:16,18 137:2,4

173:15 184:5

192:1 196:3 215:9

229:22 232:14

233:22 234:4

scale 231:22

scared 56:21

scenario 160:10

scenarios 114:12

240:1

scenes 182:11

schedule 76:6,9

242:2

scheduled 76:6

Schindler 1:20 6:7

6:8 32:6,7 54:15

54:16 58:6,13

73:2,3 74:21 76:1

96:8,9,16 97:5,10

99:9,12 137:9,10

147:2,3,8,11

155:1 157:7 165:6

167:18 179:1,2

180:3,20 181:16

184:4 201:8,9

213:17,21,22

224:3,4 229:21

237:21 238:9

239:18 240:9

scope 87:10 90:17

90:19,22 91:7,22

92:11,13 129:20

179:18 180:10

screaming 108:18

screen 52:9,13,15

53:13,20,21 54:6

93:12 101:13

120:15 133:13,18

134:1,3 135:17

136:3 174:6 175:6

175:11 190:14,15

190:18 238:18,20

scrolling 116:14

search 97:17

searched 30:7,7

searches 30:6

seats 4:4

second 48:13 67:16

127:21 214:14

secondary 148:5

Secondly 172:4

176:13

seconds 190:13,20

191:19

section 76:3,7

86:20 87:4,14

89:8 93:16 141:18

239:10,11

sections 17:15

see 11:16,17 12:16

13:21 14:9,13

27:10 29:15 31:5

37:21 38:5,10

41:8 42:15,17

45:2,3 46:3 49:20

50:18,21 53:11,11

53:13 54:11 62:17

68:22 69:5 70:22

71:7 72:11 77:5

81:21 82:9,16

83:2,12,19 84:10

84:17 85:16 96:20

108:11 110:18

111:6 112:20

117:16 118:8

120:3 123:6

125:21 128:20

129:4 146:15

160:7,15 172:5

181:3 183:1 193:1

202:3 213:5 215:2

224:8 225:13

229:3 239:5 240:7

seeing 43:4 59:2,4

75:21 127:7

130:13,15 159:12

175:14 200:4

seek 29:2 94:4

seeks 11:22 42:4

62:14 173:5

seen 14:6 37:8

39:14 54:1 65:13

101:20 103:20

120:12 133:15,18

145:3 151:20

153:3,12 154:4,6

163:11 198:9,11

211:19

sees 107:10

select 101:21

116:10 119:10

125:5,10,11 193:9

selectable 89:5

103:1,19 104:4

105:21 110:22

111:4,20 113:19

114:4,9,20 115:1

115:11,16 122:4

124:17 125:13

126:7 128:5 129:4

129:19,21 130:1,3

131:19 132:1

139:6 140:4,8

selected 38:14

120:11 125:12

selection 103:12

113:20 131:13,14

160:3

sell 35:11

sells 131:5

send 241:6

sense 45:5 51:10

85:7 131:16

165:14 166:2

210:1

sensitive 39:2,3

56:7,9

sensor 19:22 20:1,4

22:17,18 24:14,17

25:1,3,4,9,11,15

25:16 28:19,20

36:18 38:22,22

39:18 40:9,17

41:1,16 42:2,7

44:12 46:20 47:9

50:8 51:3 56:11

58:20 65:20 67:15

67:18 68:1,3,11

68:14,16 69:8,11

75:10,17 88:12,15

88:18 143:16

238:14 239:10,11

sensors 22:22 39:2

43:9,10,12,17

45:14

separate 78:14

94:17 130:5 132:7

September 184:19

server 202:14

service 123:6 187:9

219:8

set 20:12 26:17,19

26:22 87:9 89:20

90:13 92:7 93:1

94:5 95:21 112:2

114:13 116:14

138:20 201:21

233:21

sets 1:3 4:9,20 11:6

89:10 98:9 229:7

229:10

setting 89:5 101:2,6

101:7,8,10,11,12

101:15,17,18,21

101:22 102:2,3,6

102:9,9,18,20,22

103:1,3,6,8,9,10

103:14,14,17,18

103:19 104:3,4,5

104:8 105:2,9,13

106:2,6,18 111:5

114:5,9 115:10,12
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 266

119:11 125:14,14

126:3,4,7,9,16

127:15 128:5

129:19,21 130:4

136:8,8 137:12

139:6 143:19

151:13,16,17

152:3,14,18 153:1

153:3,7,8,10,16

153:19,21,22

154:2,6,14 156:12

156:13,16,18

161:16 162:3,8,13

163:13 232:6

settings 102:8,16

104:19 106:4

119:5 120:6 127:8

128:6 161:21

162:4 163:10

182:17,17

settled 214:13

setup 17:19,20

19:13,17,20 20:16

20:22 21:3,17

22:2,3,10,12,15

23:6,7,11,13

24:21 25:6,8,10

25:13 26:2,11

27:8,8,10,11,12

27:18,19 28:1,3,4

28:8 29:3 38:8,20

39:11,12,16,20

40:11,22 41:2,6

42:3,6 43:17 44:4

44:5,6 45:5,7

46:10,12,15 49:14

50:4 51:4,12 56:4

56:4 57:4 60:17

68:13 78:21

196:10,18,21

198:3,6,17

setups 16:2 20:19

20:21 21:6,13,21

24:4,13,19 25:17

25:21 38:3 39:7

49:11,12 50:13,17

51:8 68:19,22

69:1,17

set-top 144:4 148:9

149:16 164:10

191:14 195:10

set-up 196:1,2

seven 10:5,6 207:21

shaking 224:8

share 9:18 139:22

149:14

shared 31:14 135:5

151:15

Sharp 1:15 6:10

29:14 34:12 36:10

42:10 58:17 70:6

97:16,21 106:15

135:5 144:15

168:15 173:13

186:6 203:6 229:6

sharpness 102:14

shed 192:15

Sher 241:14

shift 23:16

shifted 41:16,17

shifting 218:22

220:17,17

shifts 189:6

shine 25:10

ship 34:8 191:21

193:7

shipped 94:9 95:18

101:10 103:15

193:6

ships 191:21

shoot 182:20

shooting 174:5

shop 76:19

short 141:21

221:14

show 38:6 39:6

69:15 75:15 80:8

86:11 162:21

showcase 105:8

showcasing 121:4

showed 16:14 39:1

39:12 43:17 50:6

51:7,19 56:2,3

65:5 70:12 194:18

showing 54:9 73:11

shown 54:5 59:21

75:6 154:7 207:5

223:18

shows 27:13 40:21

41:5,7 42:16,18

54:11 68:9,13

71:17 73:7,15

82:1,2 102:15

103:16 172:4

shroud 238:18

239:3

side 46:21 47:2

48:12,14 49:18

50:20 58:2 65:14

120:13 121:19

133:20

sidebar 9:22

sides 47:7

signals 170:5

significant 22:22

69:16 70:12

233:12

significantly 38:12

39:8,13,19 145:11

176:21,22 177:19

silent 9:21 128:15

silicon 56:10,11

57:18

similar 39:5,21

88:13 141:17

170:5,8 183:16

similarly 146:1

178:11 223:12

simple 90:4 112:14

132:7 140:10

170:17 181:20

183:1,16,22

simpler 71:8

182:19

simply 79:16

170:14 240:17

single 65:21 72:8,9

93:18 95:15

175:14 181:5

224:6

sit 88:9 191:6

site 225:1

sitting 35:9,14

situation 73:13

88:14 108:14

112:21 114:22

121:1 129:4 160:2

160:5,6 170:14

situations 53:17

198:8 227:1

Sixty-five 109:4

size 93:12 97:11

221:3 223:1

sizeable 175:4

skiing 5:10

sleep 187:12

191:12

slide 7:19 10:21

51:13 52:6,17

53:12 67:2 85:9

156:1 173:10

241:1

slides 67:7 78:18

82:13 146:11

237:3 240:22

slight 167:17

slightly 51:8 59:1

101:18 150:19

slower 149:7

small 24:7 44:5

50:15,22 99:20

123:22 176:12

232:2

smaller 90:15

smart 2:6 201:16

202:18 215:6

SMPTE 169:9

SNOPR 3:6 8:9

11:9 12:1,1 13:15

15:1,5,16 16:21

17:7 18:3,7,15

22:4 79:7,8,16

80:4,16 81:1

87:18 93:15,22

95:12 103:17

115:8 128:3

141:11 171:16

172:17 173:13

178:3 185:2 204:9

205:1,4,8 206:8

206:13 235:10

237:8

software 10:13

sold 96:12 97:2

solicited 17:11

solution 32:11 33:6

70:21 111:16

112:14,16 227:14

solutions 1:12,16

4:12 6:14 33:19

34:17 52:4 63:4

115:22 129:16

180:6 215:15

solve 111:10

131:21 170:17

solving 112:21

somebody 158:8

211:8

somebody's 207:22

208:16

somewhat 60:18

136:9

Sony 2:5,5 122:13

soon 13:18

sorry 52:18 54:2

66:1 110:2,19

146:22 147:11

167:20 213:21

239:7

sort 57:19 105:6

106:2 114:5,12,12

115:15 118:1

127:6 132:19

158:10 191:4

200:16 231:4

sound 91:20 99:14

99:19,22 173:21

sounds 116:5

132:21 136:20

190:21 192:17

197:3

source 24:4,10

28:17 29:10 44:6

44:7 145:1 186:9

186:14 187:2
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 267

219:6 238:19,21

sources 17:21

145:17

space 41:12 207:20

spaces 123:19

speak 9:13,15

10:12 122:8

136:13 218:4

speaker 136:20,21

spec 56:14

special 28:11 87:15

87:21 89:12

140:21 192:17

195:4,5,8,13

196:22 197:17

specific 12:2 26:17

26:20 27:7,14

32:2 34:3 35:2

93:13 143:18

149:15 151:4

162:6,7 169:4

170:6 176:17

236:8

specifically 11:19

18:7 26:20 28:5

29:4 37:6 94:21

146:22 171:14

239:3,12

specification 15:13

15:19 17:19 20:18

21:18 22:11 23:10

24:1 29:4 32:12

33:12 47:11,15

70:3 77:15 90:13

109:17 125:19

126:1 146:5

150:13 168:3,5

171:16 173:17

174:12 178:12

185:12 240:6

specifications

18:10 20:20 22:4

29:3 32:19 79:8

88:6 154:17

168:17 170:9

specifics 240:13

specified 23:5,15

44:20 54:17

125:20 142:14

237:14,16

specifies 97:2

specify 22:1 51:1

88:14 129:5 143:7

169:3,15 183:15

225:2 231:6 239:9

specifying 28:15

226:3

specked 55:16

spectra 46:2

spectrum 21:10

28:9,9 38:20 39:3

39:7,9,11 40:9,16

40:20 43:18,20

44:15,15 45:1,11

46:22 47:5,8,9

50:19 52:1 54:22

spectrums 21:11

speed 227:9

spelled 240:1

spend 219:14,17

220:2

spending 19:8

60:21

spends 177:8,13

sports 106:8

spot 51:15 53:13

59:18 107:8 159:7

spring 5:10

squared 171:20

172:3,5,7,10,13

stabilization

141:15 142:17

194:6,11,16

stacking 226:20

stage 20:12

stakeholders 22:9

78:9 87:10 93:14

95:9 101:16 116:3

146:16 171:12

172:15

stakes 231:13

stand 36:13,15,21

230:7

standard 23:17

26:16 28:9,9

31:16 33:14 58:12

83:9 84:11,14

85:12 145:19

153:2,6,20 154:2

156:11,16,18

161:18 162:9,16

162:17 163:5

168:21 169:9

170:8 184:5

231:16,18

standardization

34:15,15

standards 2:3 6:6

30:1 34:22 35:1

89:3 149:3 170:3

178:18

standby 18:12,13

18:14,16,19

175:20 186:15,18

186:22 187:12,14

188:6,20,22 189:7

189:10,18 191:12

192:4,10 194:9

199:3 204:16

206:10 209:13

214:3,4 225:19

standby-active

3:16,16 8:19,20

175:22 176:8

178:1,2,6,10

180:7,8 184:16,20

185:1,3,6,9 186:1

186:7,16 187:19

188:4,9 193:15

204:12,18,20

206:15

standby-network

188:3,11

standby-passive

185:7 193:22

204:13 205:19

206:10,15 210:15

213:18

standpoint 117:15

128:7 132:14

225:6

star 15:9 32:12,15

77:16 104:14

106:5 109:21

110:3 112:9

114:14 117:12

118:3 123:5,16

125:19 126:1,18

127:14 128:13,16

129:5 132:2,5

137:17 139:14

179:6 184:18

185:4,11,18

201:20 224:5

229:12 230:1

231:3,17 232:8,14

237:18,19 238:10

staring 191:19

start 4:13 5:21,22

7:17 29:12 77:4

87:6 118:8 120:1

120:2 189:3,4,14

190:8,10,12,19

191:1,7 192:2

194:2 195:2 196:4

196:21 198:20

200:3 208:20

219:1 227:18

started 79:22

118:18 188:5

starting 140:15

202:14

state 155:15 170:14

184:9 217:10

stated 178:11 183:2

statement 8:3 9:7

66:2 88:8 90:20

147:4 173:17

statements 3:3

12:11 90:8 183:21

States 34:8 212:15

station 169:8

statistic 223:8,19

statistical 78:6,20

85:4,10 148:3

234:5

statistics 85:17

159:22 230:9,16

status 99:21

statute 210:22

stayed 53:14

step 13:13 20:14

150:17

Stephens 1:21 6:16

6:16 35:4,5,6 48:3

48:4 60:12 113:4

113:5 118:14,15

118:15 134:21,21

147:17,17 148:21

149:17 150:14

157:12,13,13,20

158:1,22 159:10

183:5 188:16,16

190:11 191:2

193:5 197:3

198:14 207:1,2

210:12 218:6,7,7

220:7 221:19,22

225:9,9 228:1,1

231:1

steps 3:19 9:4

11:11 20:11

171:22

stop 67:19 221:13

stopwatch 182:11

182:16

store 109:9 111:6

stores 105:8

streams 164:12

Strike 1:21 7:12,12

strongly 144:16

207:3 208:22

structure 103:17

structured 17:1

structures 102:18

struggled 111:9

stuck 161:19

studies 63:21 65:4

65:8,13

study 47:13 63:18

63:18 70:21 73:4

73:17

stuff 57:6 119:22

120:10 158:7

198:12 219:1,16
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 268

220:12 222:8

style 91:3,5

subject 8:8 165:1

submission 148:20

submit 200:22

241:1,6

submitting 12:5

substantial 218:8

sufficient 69:22

88:7 122:17

230:10

sufficiently 9:9

61:6

suggest 35:6 76:11

133:10 145:16

207:3 208:10

220:10

suggested 71:6

75:9

suggesting 34:1

75:16 125:3

158:21 187:20

220:6

suggestion 136:17

140:2 164:6

198:16

suggestions 33:19

35:10 129:17

suggests 165:19

summarize 87:3

summary 3:6 8:3,9

12:16 85:9 141:21

sunlight 45:10 47:2

super 195:14 196:3

197:12

supplemental 4:7

4:21 11:8 13:9

14:12

supply 141:13

142:1 230:5

support 15:1 123:1

144:15 154:21

155:2 178:9 179:2

183:18,21 215:15

supporting 14:20

supportive 225:10

225:13

supports 51:20

sure 9:8 10:18 30:1

30:11 31:19 33:16

51:16 56:8 60:16

67:3 72:18 73:19

77:13 108:3

119:16 124:21

126:21 127:2

146:6 147:2 150:8

155:10 157:10

164:2,8 167:8

174:21 179:5

186:19 189:17

203:2 211:14,15

227:11 230:15

surface 30:19

36:16 88:16,21

surfaces 88:19

surprise 133:14

surrounding 88:4

93:15

survey 120:2

susceptible 75:17

88:18

swapped 51:18

swear 200:14

SWINK 2:6

switch 125:2

switched 156:11

switching 123:2,10

162:16

synonymous

110:22

synthetic 45:6

system 10:14

168:12

S-E-S-S-I-O-N

167:1

S-video 168:6,21

169:3

S.W 1:9

T

t 223:8,19

table 3:1 14:11

27:13 35:14 36:14

36:14,17,20 83:4

99:15 116:17

130:18

tables 154:8

tablets 91:8

tailed 223:9

take 4:3 8:11,15

34:13 36:3 60:1

74:16 76:11,12,15

81:14 99:15

107:12 150:3,19

165:20 167:16

190:13 205:12

212:2 219:3

242:12

TAKEI 2:7

taken 30:11 153:8

158:15 166:7

183:15 230:9

talk 19:17 89:16

98:12

talked 79:20

228:19

talking 52:16

133:12 155:18

165:15 170:3

200:15 201:10

207:19 231:3

238:1

tape 182:12

targets 222:13

teams 178:12

technical 71:12

technician 182:10

182:15

technology 39:1

130:20 203:21

230:19

telephones 10:10

television 1:3 4:9

4:19 11:6 15:19

19:6 45:14 59:5

59:22 60:8,19,20

62:1 64:12 77:15

87:9 89:10,20

90:13 91:19 92:7

93:1,9 94:5,15,16

96:5 97:3 100:20

107:10,12 108:6

108:16,20 112:3

119:13 125:8

131:3,7,7 133:7

135:7,9,13,18,21

135:22 136:7

145:2 147:21

148:1,4,5,5,6,11

148:12,14 164:11

164:15,20 168:12

179:16 186:8

187:6,7,15 188:19

189:1,6,17 195:12

195:17 203:18

206:4 207:10,18

208:21 210:2

211:6,8,15,17

212:5 215:2,3

218:9,13 220:14

221:1,3,6 226:13

227:17 231:11

233:21

televisions 12:18

13:3 15:7,10,14

30:3 43:1 66:19

75:6 90:17 91:1,1

91:2 92:18 93:7

108:4 111:21

118:20 123:18

124:9,12 130:22

145:21 149:18

203:13,14 206:2,6

207:9,15 218:14

218:19 222:2

225:19 226:21

227:4,19 231:5

232:18 234:9

tell 160:17

telling 219:18

temperature 45:12

ten 165:4 181:4

182:4,7 194:21

203:12 227:10

242:4

tend 90:18 98:5

134:3 226:10

tended 38:15 98:2

tends 46:22 47:3

91:8 134:1

tenth 235:16,20

ten-minute 26:6

53:1,8 182:2

184:1 194:11

term 95:4

terminal 18:8

142:12 143:8,21

144:2,6,12 146:20

148:16 150:13

terminals 16:9

141:14 143:4,11

143:17 149:15

terms 44:16 46:21

47:4 52:7 53:12

55:16 56:18,19

63:12 101:7

106:17 117:15

124:15,22 144:17

150:6 163:17

164:5 183:16

215:20 230:2

Terra 2:2

territories 219:8

tertiary 148:5

test 1:3 3:8,13 4:8

4:19 8:9,17 11:4,6

11:7 12:8,18,19

13:2,10,14,18

14:20,21 15:7,13

15:16 16:1,10

17:9,19 18:1,5,6

18:13,13,15,17,18

18:18,22 19:13,17

20:15,19,21,22

21:2,6,13,17,21

22:2,3,12,15 23:6

23:11 24:3,12,13

24:19,20 25:6,7

25:13,17,21 26:1

26:2,11 27:7,9,11

27:12,18,18 28:1

28:3,4,7 29:3 31:2

31:9 34:2 36:5,12

38:8,20 39:6,11

39:12,15,20 40:10
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 269

40:22 41:1 42:3,6

42:7,21 43:17

45:5 46:10,12,15

49:11,12,14 50:4

50:13,17 51:18

53:6,10 54:1 56:4

56:4 57:1 58:19

60:3,6 61:1 64:6

64:20 66:13,16,17

68:7,13,18,21

69:1,16,19 78:5,7

78:13,21 79:3,7,9

79:12 80:6,16,19

81:15,20 82:10,14

82:20,21 83:1

84:1 92:3,14,18

100:3,15 103:22

110:17 111:17,19

112:5,17 113:12

113:17 115:4,13

116:4 120:22

130:5,8 131:15,16

131:19 133:22

134:9 140:7,9

141:9,12,16 142:4

142:20 143:1

146:19 147:20

148:22 149:2,22

150:3,10 152:19

154:11 155:4

157:9 163:19,21

164:1,3,8,18

165:16 175:21

176:1,5,7,9,10,13

176:16 177:2,3,10

177:20,22,22

178:3,6,10,13,17

179:7,12,14,19,21

180:1,9,12,15

181:8,11,13,15,20

182:2,3 183:10

184:1,16,18,19

185:4,5,12,18

186:2,22 187:1,13

187:21 192:6,8,11

192:15,20 193:16

194:4,5,9,11,20

198:8 202:21

204:22 209:12,17

210:3 216:3,4,9

216:15,16,18

217:1,2,5,9,15

221:12 222:21

224:19 225:11

226:7 227:2 228:7

228:8,11,11 229:4

231:20 233:1,13

239:9,12

testable 112:4,10

tested 26:1 38:9

68:18 81:3,13

103:21 105:5,12

111:22 116:12

132:1,3 139:15

152:5,13 153:5

160:4 185:6

188:18 189:17,21

192:9 226:14

229:7

testing 14:22 15:20

15:20 16:1,2,4,8,8

16:11,15 17:4,13

17:17,22 18:11

20:9 21:5,7,10,14

21:16 22:13 23:3

24:6 25:19,21

26:4,9 27:5 28:4

30:2 32:18 37:4,6

38:4,14 40:7,10

40:14,15 41:2,3

43:5 44:9 48:20

49:5 51:2,15

52:10 53:17 59:18

60:9 61:11,17

62:13 68:7 69:10

69:12,20 70:11,14

71:17,22 72:11

78:6,11,20 79:6

79:19 83:3,15,19

86:13 88:5,13

101:4 105:1

111:13 113:13

120:10 122:3

126:15 132:13

141:15,16 142:4,9

142:13,16 143:8,9

143:13,13,15

144:5,8,11 145:10

145:20 151:2,10

152:2,15,21 153:9

154:9,11 162:12

175:20 176:8,19

176:20 179:17

186:10,15 188:18

223:2 224:13

225:5,19 228:8

229:2,13 231:13

233:4 238:10

239:13

tests 57:7 81:18

85:15 129:18

142:22 185:9

204:16

thank 31:22 35:16

37:1 49:9 62:22

63:7 71:14 72:20

74:22 76:1 77:17

77:21 97:13 99:7

100:21 106:13

140:11,12 141:5

146:18 154:22

161:8 166:2

167:10 178:20

180:3,16 183:3,19

188:13,14 194:13

194:14 197:6

204:2 212:19,20

217:19 225:7,15

227:21 229:19

236:15,20 239:15

240:9 241:21

242:5,9

thanks 7:15 19:14

72:18 77:22 93:3

95:17 104:11

145:9 184:2

234:19 242:14

theirs 218:1

theoretical 177:6

177:14

theory 55:1

thing 31:4,13 42:11

44:2 55:22 67:2

75:5 84:20 85:2

85:18 104:22

109:15,16 114:4

114:21 115:7

119:3 126:17

132:10,11,12

139:7 145:12

150:6 181:10

187:18 191:5,22

198:11 203:19

207:8 208:15

214:19,22 217:8

218:21 225:12

227:9,17 231:2,4

things 30:17 90:18

90:21 91:8,9

104:17 106:7,8,22

108:8 119:6,21

120:3 123:15

134:11 163:17

165:8 170:4 188:6

193:17 195:14

199:7 202:10

204:5 208:12

218:22 220:1

221:10

think 5:18 31:3,14

33:2 34:17 35:8

35:13 43:19 46:9

46:13 47:6,19,22

50:22 51:7,18

54:16 57:8 58:1

59:10 61:7 64:8

66:9 71:4,19,21

72:3 79:14 84:6

85:7,21 86:11

91:6,7 94:17

96:18 97:5,10

98:10 99:16 100:6

104:16,18 105:1

105:16,22 111:1

111:14 114:11

115:21 116:9,22

117:3,12 118:11

119:9,18 121:15

126:12 127:5,9

128:12,21 130:9

130:11,18 131:12

132:4,11,20 135:3

136:6 140:16

144:16 145:7

150:7,11 157:14

157:20 158:3

160:13 165:2

166:1 170:12

174:4 180:13

182:3,6 183:5,7

183:10,17 184:6

187:5,13,17

189:12,16 191:2

191:10 192:5,11

193:14 194:4,21

195:21 196:4,15

196:19 197:4,9,20

198:5,9 199:13,19

200:10,16 201:15

202:17 203:7,11

208:18 209:3

210:13 211:3,19

212:15 214:13

215:16 216:6

220:21 221:12

225:12,17,18

226:5 227:7 228:4

228:6,17,21 232:2

234:20 236:16,17

240:6,6,11

thinking 118:19

191:6

third 163:18

178:16

third-party 229:13

THOMAS 2:2

thought 71:9 116:2

149:8 174:14

200:20 201:2

216:13

thoughts 49:22

three 68:19 81:18

82:20 98:14 175:6

181:19 202:22

204:1
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 270

three-bar 133:22

182:20 183:10

threshold 74:10

throw 231:2

THURSDAY 1:5

ticker 120:18 122:2

133:9,12,17,19

134:6

tickers 120:12

ticket 227:11

tightening 31:17

tighter 47:15

tightly 55:16 91:2

time 9:13,15,18,19

10:17 12:7,12

29:1 33:5 42:4

60:21 62:14 70:2

71:4 94:3,14

96:18 98:16 104:1

110:20 120:18

138:10 144:9,19

153:11 154:15

159:2 173:5 177:8

177:13 178:4

180:21 182:5,21

185:21 191:14,16

194:9 206:19

208:8 211:11,12

212:15 214:4,10

219:17 223:22

229:13 242:4

timed 183:22

timeline 3:5 8:7

12:15

times 26:2 82:20

189:12,14 226:8

toaster 195:10

today 4:9 5:16 8:15

9:9,14 11:14 19:3

19:17 93:15 98:5

108:5 113:17

137:10 176:15

202:4 217:21

241:15 242:1,7

today's 4:20 11:4

11:15 14:14 15:1

15:16 16:17 17:1

17:8 19:8 87:17

tolerance 88:7

229:22 230:3,10

230:11

tools 221:11,13

top 27:5 82:4 83:4

85:11 95:22 133:9

145:20 175:5

182:1 185:19

topic 151:1 214:20

topics 143:4

Toshiba 2:4 136:15

total 172:12 176:12

totally 201:14

touch 50:6

traced 139:14

transcript 9:16

transferring

185:16

transition 58:22

transitioned 12:21

translated 114:18

transmission 55:9

55:12,17

transmit 168:11

169:6

transmits 168:7

transmitted 55:18

transmitter 169:8

transpired 12:17

travels 242:14

tree 104:17

trends 222:4

tries 114:14

true 39:14 55:22

60:15 90:15 96:19

138:16 149:17

truly 164:3

try 10:14 85:7

139:17,17 156:21

222:10

trying 10:8 60:14

99:2 126:18

136:22 138:7

149:21 150:10

183:11 189:8

191:16 197:9

201:16 208:5

217:16

TSAO 2:7

tube 238:17 239:3

Tuesday 35:10

tuner 93:10,18,22

94:1,11,17,20

95:6,7,19,20,22

96:13,17 97:4,17

98:5,19,22 100:15

100:20 164:10

tuners 95:14 97:20

tuner/receiver

100:13

turn 9:20 107:18

135:3 141:4

156:18 186:8,13

187:1 195:13,22

197:21 198:12

236:19

turned 156:15

189:1

turning 6:1 10:1

198:10

TV 13:10,14,18

17:21 20:17 24:18

25:5,13 28:20

29:7 37:11,16,18

38:5,6,10,12,15

38:16 41:4,4,10

41:11,15,17 51:14

51:17 60:5 65:17

65:19 68:3 69:17

73:9,9,12,15 74:6

74:8,9,15 75:5,14

81:3,12,19 82:2

82:12 84:16 85:2

88:9,17 90:15

92:1,8 93:10,17

93:18,21 94:1

95:6,7,14 96:11

96:17 98:1 102:17

103:15 108:18

109:17 112:9

116:10 118:9

119:8,18 120:13

120:13 121:14

131:2 135:1 138:8

138:11,19 142:12

142:14 143:20

144:3,7 149:16

151:12,14,18,18

152:10 153:5,6,17

153:21,21 154:2,7

154:11 156:3,5,10

156:14,15,15,18

157:4,22 158:16

159:7,21 160:9,9

160:16 161:14

162:16,18 177:1,8

177:13,16 185:12

185:13 187:1,10

190:7 193:20

195:11,22 201:16

210:8 212:1,14

215:7 228:10,14

228:22 229:14

232:11

TVs 12:19 25:22

37:6 38:13 40:5

50:3 68:19 80:8

81:14,14 94:8,9

94:10 97:22

121:11 123:21

125:22 128:13

137:10 142:11

149:15 151:10

152:2,4,5,13,17

152:22 153:12,14

156:6 160:13

162:20 176:11,12

176:15 184:22

185:6 201:20

202:9,12,18

212:17 213:7

223:1 228:7

TV's 19:22 25:4

40:17 41:1 42:2

75:9 121:4 143:11

184:18

twice 225:4

two 20:19 21:13

36:17 38:3,11

47:7 49:10 50:3

50:13,17 51:12

55:3 56:4 57:16

57:17 65:19 67:11

68:20 69:1,16,19

72:13 81:2,12,14

81:14 88:15,21

95:7 107:15

120:22 125:21

129:16,16 143:4

150:4 152:2 154:7

156:10 160:15,18

162:20 163:16

168:7 171:15,17

171:22 172:11

177:3 180:17

183:21 193:17

198:19 200:12,13

203:3 212:16

216:11 223:1

224:11 225:4,12

225:17,19 226:5

228:7,8 233:2,13

233:15 234:17

240:5

two-inch 25:3

type 22:18 33:15

34:6 141:14

160:18 224:16

types 151:6 173:18

176:20

typical 37:21 45:17

135:7 142:12

160:2 164:11

187:14 195:12

206:1

typically 5:22

40:19 130:14

187:5 198:9 203:9

207:11

t0.90 223:19

t0.95 223:7

U

UL 1:21 7:12

ultimately 184:17

ultra 21:9

ultraviolet 16:6
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 271

46:22

ultra-high 98:12

unable 177:21

underneath 76:20

understand 52:8

60:22 63:17 74:21

105:19 107:7

123:13 147:18

155:13 165:7

179:5 189:8

219:20 221:8,9

222:4,10

understanding

90:11 107:21

117:1 127:16

179:4 199:8

understands

176:11

undoing 219:18

unforeseen 55:5

unfortunate 5:13

unfortunately 5:9

162:19

uniformly 67:17

unintended 107:3

108:12

unit 36:12 81:17

93:19 95:18,19

165:18,20 206:12

226:10,10,17,17

United 34:8 212:15

units 81:2 94:10

123:20 230:4

unreliable 71:1

un-confuse 219:15

update 93:6

updated 17:14,21

18:6,21 87:5,9,12

94:5 142:17,19

143:1 206:17

updates 87:7 89:12

101:2 204:18

updating 141:22

upper 81:6 84:2,4

223:5,6,15,17

233:10 234:13

usage 210:6,7

213:10 215:11

216:19 217:14,21

218:10 220:5,8

use 16:5 17:20

23:13 24:4 28:3

32:11 36:13 40:22

41:22 42:2 47:15

57:18 60:17 61:3

67:19 77:11 80:15

80:17 84:8 85:19

91:20 127:14

142:4 143:8 148:1

148:1,2 155:5,9

156:9 157:17

158:7,13 159:13

159:15 163:6

164:7,10 165:14

165:16 168:1

169:17,20,22

170:16 174:22

179:14,22 185:10

203:13 211:2,5,10

211:17 212:3,14

214:11 215:16

217:1,6,22 218:10

218:12 219:6

221:10,17 222:4,5

222:14 225:1

231:9 238:17

useful 32:3 149:10

209:4 240:19

user 196:1,2,9

197:1

uses 24:21 25:9

64:14 67:16

143:18 158:11

168:10 193:15

212:18 213:10

219:5 236:1

237:19

usually 203:16

utilities 6:15 219:9

utility 190:22

217:10

utmost 32:19

utterly 219:7

UV 40:7 54:20 70:1

80:21

U.S 1:1,8 4:6 30:3,4

34:18 77:14

131:10 142:6

145:19,20 169:10

170:15

V

V 2:6

validation 232:15

valuable 104:18

127:10 241:22

value 26:17 27:7,14

27:16 37:12 39:21

41:11,13 48:15

53:7 58:11 62:7

65:21 67:8,10,13

67:15 68:3,12

69:4,22 81:4

83:10,10 84:15,16

120:17 171:20

172:1,14 216:7

223:3,14 233:7,16

236:2

values 3:10 8:14

17:22 24:11 26:21

27:14,17 28:16

29:9 30:17 36:6

37:8,14,18 39:15

40:1,3,11 41:20

50:15 52:15 61:10

61:12,14,19 62:3

62:11 63:6,12,13

63:15,17,19 65:10

65:16 67:5 68:19

84:6 86:5 172:11

205:12 222:20

233:8 235:2,3,5,7

235:12,14,16,19

235:21

variabilities 226:9

variability 32:18

82:10 83:14 86:12

86:16 92:16

156:20 225:21

226:6

variables 20:15

22:14,15,21

variation 24:16

26:14,16,19 27:6

27:12,19,21 29:8

38:11 58:3 64:10

70:17 71:3 72:17

79:16 83:10 84:12

85:13,22 86:3

162:20 226:17

227:7 229:2 233:1

233:3,13 234:6

variations 27:16

226:4 227:1

varied 28:16 38:3

47:13 153:15

variety 46:2

various 34:14

210:9

vary 24:4 45:21

53:5 71:18 176:21

181:17

varying 22:19

182:14

verb 90:7

Verena 1:18 77:14

77:19 104:9,10

107:7 110:1,3

113:21 117:7

126:11 128:11

132:5 161:11

212:21

Verena's 140:1

verification 224:14

224:17

verified 164:4

verify 50:3 68:7

version 15:10

32:13 62:8 104:21

117:12,12 168:3

184:18 185:4,11

185:18 201:20

versions 106:7

versus 75:7,19

108:9 149:16,16

156:14 170:5

183:9

vertical 25:14

28:21 29:8

VGA 142:8 144:19

147:14

Vic 5:7

vicinity 119:8

Victor 5:5

video 18:8 53:2

141:14 142:14

143:5 145:17

146:4 147:5,13

151:1,8 154:10,17

156:9 157:4 168:4

168:4,6,7,9,9,13

169:5,7,13 170:5

170:9

view 27:2 164:11

187:10

viewed 124:13

viewership 62:2,4

65:9

viewing 45:15 62:1

65:7 70:12 118:5

124:19,21 131:7

142:13 144:3

148:7,13 164:14

195:12,16 211:15

215:19

violation 231:18

violet 21:10

visible 21:11 39:5,9

39:13 40:8,19

43:20 44:15,22

47:8 50:1,19 52:1

57:21 76:17

vivid 106:8 199:10

voltage 24:4,5,8,10

28:17 29:10 44:20

54:20 141:13

142:1,5 170:6

volts 142:7 145:15

voluntary 126:20

217:11

V-E-R-E-N 77:19

W

waiting 205:13

wake 191:13,16
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 272

200:6,7

walk 22:6 114:12

242:4

walked 85:5

wall 88:19 108:19

want 6:20 9:19

10:17 14:18 31:19

33:1,15 45:13

60:13 67:1 78:21

86:10 92:4 97:17

105:8 106:1 108:2

108:3 112:9

114:14 116:3

119:19 120:7

128:15 131:11

132:1 138:22

139:1 146:1 149:9

150:8,12 155:9

156:2,8,20 157:3

157:16,18 164:18

165:8 167:6

169:15 184:7,10

187:8,13 191:5,7

191:8,13 192:1,2

196:3,4 197:12

198:18,20 199:17

200:3,7 214:7

216:21 217:12

218:4,22 224:17

228:21 231:14

232:14 233:1

234:6,8 237:4

wanted 33:11,12

42:11 50:2 58:4

61:18 70:10 79:13

88:14 116:20

155:5 165:16

wanting 71:12

wants 9:6 12:9

122:6 179:17

232:12

Washington 1:9

4:10

wasn't 57:4

waste 9:19

watch 187:8 208:14

215:7

watched 207:21

208:2,17

watches 208:1

watching 64:12

164:17,19 207:12

220:14,15

waters 100:6

watt 19:21 23:15

23:19 33:10 156:4

188:21 190:1

191:22 208:11

227:16,18 235:13

235:16,17

wattage 73:12

214:11

watts 78:10 189:7

190:1,4 191:20

192:4 193:1,3,10

193:10 200:13

207:4 210:15,16

210:16 211:22

215:3 220:22

233:22 234:1,9

235:12,14,15,17

wavelengths 28:12

46:17,19

way 16:22 22:22

34:3,9 51:22 56:8

70:18 71:6 82:10

84:13 105:5,15

111:13 112:8

124:16 128:14,21

128:21 129:7

131:20 132:6,18

135:2 137:14

139:11,12 140:6

157:9 160:8

161:16 162:5

165:11 170:17

173:13 186:19

191:3 193:7 196:5

220:14,16 229:8

237:15,16,18

ways 92:18 197:17

222:15

wear 76:17

web 10:4,7,9 11:3

14:17 97:18 122:5

136:11 137:2,3

201:18 212:9

241:9

webinar 2:1 5:18

10:3,14 12:9

14:16 237:6

website 14:4,7,7

15:3 16:13 27:2

49:8 221:20 241:5

week 35:13 208:3

weeks 12:6

weight 58:12 62:13

63:12,13,15 64:3

65:2,11 66:12

weighted 57:14

58:8 64:18 66:11

67:5 80:5,9 83:18

150:4

weighting 59:14

61:12 66:3

weightings 205:18

206:9,18

welcome 3:3 4:5,22

10:3,21 19:11

81:9 149:13,21

157:2 167:3

welcomes 12:7

welcoming 4:14

went 10:22 33:9

41:12 53:17 66:13

77:6,7 94:12 97:8

161:18

weren't 76:6 162:6

we've 149:17

whichever 206:11

whisker 81:21 85:3

85:3

whiskers 82:7

widely 53:6

willing 149:13

WILSON 2:8

wirelessly 201:18

wish 8:4 10:11

116:17

wishes 8:2 68:5

136:12

Wi-Fi 176:15

185:19 201:12,14

201:19,22 202:6

202:15,19,21

Wold 1:22 6:4,5

116:19,19 124:6

wonder 123:19

161:4 174:1

wondering 43:6

44:2 45:3,18

47:12 48:8 58:18

59:8 70:20 117:9

118:6

word 99:10,12

188:2

worded 124:16

193:8

words 99:4,6

111:18 114:19

162:6 196:7 227:2

234:3

work 67:22 128:21

129:10 218:8

229:15

workaround

165:21

working 188:6

191:15

workload 177:1

workloads 176:18

176:21

works 136:5

world 15:6 30:2

37:22 41:21 43:2

46:11 56:21 71:8

121:1 145:22

187:6 191:15

worldwide 33:22

34:20 35:3 201:18

worry 190:3

worse 158:2,2

worst 108:13

157:21 158:9

160:10 226:22

wouldn't 92:4

98:18 110:20

112:10 130:8,10

240:15

wow 56:16

wrapping 242:1

wrestling 118:11

writing 168:22

169:12

written 13:12

30:18 173:13

200:22 201:1

wrong 207:17,22

208:7 211:7

219:16 220:1

wrote 202:1

Y

year 5:4 13:6 14:10

15:5 123:8 205:16

210:10 218:21

years 96:10 98:11

98:14 117:11,18

137:18 188:5

203:12 218:9

220:19

Yugo 191:9

Z

zero 53:18 62:3

70:9 80:11 229:22

230:11

0

0 26:3 73:22 74:1

80:10 83:6,18

205:20 206:12

0.1 30:22

0.37 69:18

0.4 171:9

0.5 30:20

0.7 190:4 191:22

193:1,7,9

0.9 86:4

1

1 38:5,10,15 41:4

41:15 73:9,12,15

75:5 82:2 84:1

86:1 152:9,16

153:4,6,17 154:7
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 273

163:7 172:6

174:13 223:9,20

1,000 28:6 108:16

108:17 109:13,17

109:18 110:4

205:15

1.0 168:3,16,19

1.05 81:7 223:6

226:3,15 230:17

233:11,20 234:14

1.10 223:16

1.5 30:20,22 190:1

1.74 86:8

1:10 166:5

1:16 167:2

10 18:2 20:3 26:3

37:8,15 40:5,12

61:14 83:6 194:7

235:12,14

10:23 76:8

10:24 77:7

10:25 76:15

10:40 76:16 77:3

10:41 77:8

100 18:2,5 19:20

23:14,19 26:4

33:10 40:12 41:12

61:14 62:3,12

80:5,10 83:7,18

109:12,13 235:15

235:16,19,21

240:14

1000 1:8 23:13 29:4

11:00 8:11

11:45 76:7

12 3:5 18:5 26:3

40:12 48:15 59:4

62:11 68:1,15

69:6 80:5,10 83:6

83:7,18 84:9

85:14,15,19

153:21 156:5,15

156:18 158:16

160:9 162:18

240:14

12:00 165:4

12:10 166:4,6

12:30 8:15

124 84:16

127.74 84:10

129.43 84:11,15

137 84:15

141 3:13

15 90:13,16,17,20

91:6 93:12

15-minute 76:15

150 142:7

16 3:7

17 205:19

170M 169:9

171 3:15

175 3:17

19 3:9 206:9 213:18

214:3

1979 12:20

2

2 30:19 67:19 84:1

152:11,22 153:9

153:14,17,19

154:5 156:3,14,15

157:22 160:9

162:16 171:8,8,10

172:1,8,8,9

2.2 27:19

2.3 218:22

2.6 218:20

2:30 242:1

2:32 242:15

20 76:9 189:14

190:13 231:15,19

200 156:5

2005 188:6

2007 218:18

2009 12:21

2010 13:1

2010-BT-TP-0026

14:2

2012 13:5 184:19

2013 1:6 4:9

2037 143:2

204 3:18

21 96:12

22 73:6

230 149:18

236 3:20

24 177:17 189:7

190:4 192:4 193:3

193:10

24/7 193:10

240 145:15

25 65:7 82:6

26 12:6 42:16 52:7

52:17 53:12 73:14

26th 36:1,2 241:6

27 135:10

3

3 18:5 26:2 31:6,8

31:17 40:11 62:7

62:11 66:5 67:7

67:10,12 68:4,12

69:22 70:7 72:14

73:9 74:13 79:21

79:22 80:2,5,6,12

84:1 85:15 86:6

171:11 173:16,21

174:2,16,18 175:2

240:14

3.0 113:11 142:19

3.1.3 173:14

3.27 84:13 86:2

3.3 86:4

3.31 86:4

3.5 27:20

3:00 9:1

3:45 9:5

30 189:12 190:13

191:19 194:5,8,18

30S 28:7 29:5 32:10

33:3,4

30S-type 29:20

30-minute 194:16

300 18:3 20:3 26:4

40:12 41:14,18

61:14 62:4 83:7

171:20 172:5,14

237:17,19,22

238:13 239:20

240:12

31 52:6

35 18:5 26:3 40:12

41:15 48:16 62:11

66:6 80:5,10 83:6

83:18 240:14

36 67:2

365 205:15

390 40:17 46:16

4

4 1:6 3:4 4:9 85:16

85:20 117:12

4th 13:11

4.0 113:12 134:14

4.23 84:11,14

40 148:12 194:5

227:18

5

5 30:21 31:7,17

32:14 38:6,12,16

41:4,11,17 69:17

75:14 117:13

152:11,22 153:9

153:14,20 154:5

206:9 214:1

5.7.1 239:10

50 18:2 26:3 40:12

41:16 55:13 61:14

83:6 135:8 145:15

145:16 156:4

169:14,17 170:4

170:16 227:12,16

233:22 234:1,4

54 135:8

55 234:8

59.94 145:18

6

6 172:2 201:20

6.0 15:11 32:13

104:21 184:18

185:4,11,18

6.95 86:9

60 142:7 145:17,22

169:14,16,21

170:5,14 227:11

60287 192:19

60933-5 169:2

61 3:10

62087 15:11 87:20

113:11 142:18

143:2

62301 142:2 170:6

65 107:14 108:21

109:3,12,14 110:5

114:6 115:4

132:14

650 109:2

67 41:22

7

7 205:18

70 55:12

71.6 73:11,15

710 40:18 46:16

75 26:4 40:12 41:18

67:20 82:5 83:7

201:13 202:5,11

203:7,9

8

8 26:2 40:11 96:10

172:13

8E-089 1:8

87 3:12

89 62:2

9

9 86:6

9.38 69:1

9:00 1:9

9:01 4:2

90 223:19

95 223:8

980 32:13

99.9 202:8
NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 

C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: 

Before: 

Date: 

Place: 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

 

 ----------------------- Court Reporter 

274

Test Procedures for Television Sets

US DOE

04-04-13

Washington, DC