P.1 

OAR Box 1147 

Prepped by Ollie Stewart 

Document Number: 

206) IV-E-80 

Docket Number: 

A-87-11 

Printed 4/22/2008 2:42:58 PM Sheet 206 of 242 
P.2 

UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY 

ANN ARBOR. MICHIGAN 48105 

DEC 61988 

OFFICE OF 

AIR AND RADIATION 

MEMORANDUM 

SUBJECT: November 3, 1988 Meetings of the SAE Fuel Supply 

Systems Subcommittee and J285 Task Force on Nozzle 

Geometry 

FROM: 

TO: 

THRU: 

John W. Mueller, Mechanical Engineer 

Standards Development and Support Bra 

Public Docket A-87-11 

John F 

Standai 

. Anderson, Senior Project Manager ' IJf / Afe-JL—_ 

rds Development and Support Branch /'^ ' ./v*~^~- Suppo 

On November 3, 1988 I attended the meetings of the Society 

of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuel Supply Systems Subcommittee 

and J285 task force on fueling nozzle geometry specifications. 

The meeting announcements and agendas are included here as an 

attachment. Also included as attachments are copies of all the 

handouts received at the meeting and referred to in this 

memorandum. 

The meeting of the J285 task force was held in the 

morning. The purpose of the task force is to develop a more 

complete set of nozzle geometry specifications to possibly 

replace the current specifications in the SAE recommended 

practice J285. The meeting began with a discussion of whether 

the specifications to be developed would apply to new nozzles 

or be used as a standard for when in-use nozzles should be 

taken out of service. It was decided to develop design 

specifications for new nozzles first and address the issue of 

in-use nozzles at a later date, if desired. 
P.3 

The remainder of the J285 task force meeting consisted of 

discussion and derivation of an initial set of nozzle geometry 

specifications. Included with the meeting agenda is a summary 

of existing standards as well as proposed dimensions submitted 

by task force members at the April 14, 1988 meeting. Mike 

Harrigan of Ford provided drawings of nozzle spouts to 

demonstrate the variation in Ford's recommended dimensions. 

After lengthy discussions a consensus was reached on a set of 

geometry specifications (shown written in the final column of 

the table containing the previous proposals). It was agreed 

that all concerned should review the proposed dimensions and be 

prepared to discuss them further and approve or change them at 

the next task force meeting in early 1989. Finally, Mike 

Harrigan provided a handout, "Proposal to Revise SAE-J285," but 

there was no time left to discuss it. 

In the afternoon the full Fuel Supply Systems Subcommittee 

met. First, a handout on the 5 year review of documents was 

discussed. Next, Glenn Moore of OPW summarized the status of 

the J285 task force's work. Mike Harrigan then summarized the 

efforts of the refueling test task force, whose purpose is to 

develop tests to measure the fill quality of filler pipes and 

dispensing nozzles. Finally, I provided an update on the 

status of the EPA onboard vapor recovery rulemaking. In answer 

to a question I reaffirmed that the Agency is not presently 

considering mandating nozzle geometry specifications as part of 

the onboard rule but that we fully support the work of the J285 

task force and would likely adopt the revised J285 

specifications for the nozzle used in certification testing if 

there were a high degree of voluntary compliance with the 

specifications within the nozzle manufacturing industry. 

Following these updates a number of other topics were 

briefly discussed. These included working on a response to ISO 

concerning their recent adoption of nozzle geometry standards, 

the elevation of the Fuel Supply Systems Subcommittee to full 

committee status, and the formation of a task force to develop 

fuel tank performance specifications. It was decided that the 

next meetings of the Committee and task forces would be during 

the SAE World Congress in March, 1989. 

Attachments 

6552W 
P.4 

' The Engineering Society 

For Advancing Mobility 

Land Sea Ar and Space . DETROIT BRANCH OFFIC 

3001 WEST BIG BEAVER. SUITE 602. TROY, Ml 48084-3174 U.SA FAX NO. (313) 649-0425 TEL (313) 649-041 

OCTOBER 7, 1988 

J. 

\ 

To: Members: 

- SAE Fuel Supply System Subcommittee 

- SAE J28S Nozzle Spout Task Force 

- SAE J398 Refueling Test Procedure Task Force 

Subject: Fall Meeting Announcement and Agendas 

Because of the high degree of common interest in the Subcommittee and its Task 

Forces we have scheduled the meetings on the same day to minimize travel and time 

commitments. The meetings are scheduled as follows: 

Date: Thursday, November 3, 1988 

Location: Ramada Inn near Detroit Metro Airport 

8270 Wickham Rd. 

Romulus, Michigan 48174 313-729-6300 

Time: 9:00-11:00 AM' 

.Fuel Nozzle Task Force 

Fuel Fill Procedure Task Force 

1:00-3:00 PM 

Fuel Supply System Subcommittee 

while our meetings are opened to all, only Task Force leaders and those members 

of the task forces who are interested in other subcommittee business need to 

attended the Subcommittee meeting in the afternoon. 

A chart summarizing current and proposed nozzle spout dimensions has been 

included with the Nozzle Task Force Agenda so that members can come prepared to 

develop a consensus recommendation for SAE. 

We encourage all members to read the agendas and come prepared (with your own 

hand outs if appropriate) so that we can have meaningful discussions and begin to 

develop new SAE documents. 

Please fill out the attached form to indicate whether or not you can attend and 

return them by mail to Darlene Crocker at SAE Detroit Chapter Headquarters. 

UXM. JNJTiarrigan 

Chairman 

Sae Fuel Supply System Subcommittee 

SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS. INC. 
P.5 

/ 

1 

v. 

M E E T I N G ANN O U N C E M E N T /A G E N D A 

"\ 

1 

/ 

/ SUBJECT: SAE Fuel Supply Svstem Subcommittee - Fall Meeting 

MEETING DATE: 

TIME: 

Thursday Nov. 3. 1988 CONFIRM BY CALLING: M. J. Harrigan (313) 594-1062 

1:00 or Darlene Crocker (313) 649-0422 

DURATION: 2.5 Hours CHAIRMAN: Michael J. Harrigan 

LOCATION: Raraada Inn near Detroit Metro Airport 

V 

/ DESIRED OUTCOMES: 

1) Complete the 5 year review of documents 

2) Review progress of the Nozzle Spout Task Force and the Refueling Test Procedure Task 

Force. 

3) Review plans for On-Board Refueling Vapor Recovery 

4) Agree on meeting schedule and next meeting date 

/ ir-l |2. 

|3. 

|4. 

|5. 

|6* 

|5. 

|6. 

|7. 

|8. 

ORDER OF AGENDA ITEMS 

Introductions 

Approval of Feb. 29, 1988 

Meeting Minutes 

Status of 5 year Review of 

Documents 

- J285 Nozzle Spouts 

- J398 Fuel Filling 

- J829c Cam-on Cap 

- J1114 Threaded Cap 

- J1140 Stage II Emission 

Filler and Spout 

Status of Nozzle Spout Task 

Force. 

Status of Refueling Test 

On-Board Refueling Vapor 

Recovery 

- Status of Rule Making 

• SAE standards and the EPA 

- SAE actions to support 

Old Business 

ISO Nozzle Spout Std. 

New Business 

Next Meeting 

Adjorn 

PERSONS RESPONSIBLE 

Chairman 

Chairman 

All 

Glenn Moore 

Kieth Kerby 

Bill Crute 

Bill Crute 

Glenn Moore 

Glenn Moore 

Keith Kirby 

John Mueller 

All 

All 

Glenn Moore 

All 

All 

PROCESS 

Consensus 

Consensus 

Inform and Discuss 

Inform and Discuss 

Inform and Discuss 

n n 

Consesus 

Consensus 

Consensus 

TIME ALLoriATP.r 

5 min. 

10 

5 

5 

5 

10 

5 

15 

15 

15 

20 

15 

10 

10 

5* 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

min. 

2.5 hrs tota] 

1988SAE-F3C 

mjh/880930 
P.6 

PROPOSAL TO REVISE SAE-J285 

GASOLINE DISPENSCER NOZZLE SPOUTS. 

1. SCOPE: . . ' 

This recommended practice defines: 

- A system for differentiating between "UNLEADED FUEL" nozzle spouts and all 

other fuel nozzle spouts if vehicle emission control equipment requires 

unleaded fuel and other fuel not meeting .this specification is available. 

These differences establish a basis on which fuel filler inlets that will 

accept only "UNLEADED FUEL" can be designed. 

A set of dimensions for all nozzle spouts which are compatible with pump 

hanger requirements and complete enough to permit the design of uniform 

fuel filler inlets which will accept fuel in a satisfactory manner from all 

nozzles produced within the range of dimensions specified. 

- A standard test procedure for users of gasoline fuel dispenser nozzles to 

verify the proper, manufacturers specified performance of fuel dispenser 

nozzle automatic shutoff mechanisms. 

- A standard format for manufacturers to specify the flow rate vs pressure 

capability of fuel dispensing nozzles. 

SAE-noz-new 

mjh/881102 
P.7 

/ 

| M 

VE E T I H G A H H 0 U B C E H E B T / A G 

\ 

E H D A | 

/ 

/ SUBJECT: SAE J285 Nozzle Soout Task Fores 

MEETING DATE: 

TIME: 

<a^ rtyv. 3. 1988 CONFIRM BY CALLING: DarXflnft-Crogkay 313-649-0422_ 

MEETING LEADER(S):. Glenn Mooge S13-870-3202_ 

DURATION: 2-Ahou? 

LOCATION: Raaada Inn near Detroit Me.fiKQ-AUSloge 

V 

/TARTTCCWSKXS : " — 

| All interested members of the SAE Fuel Supply Systesa Subcommittee 

j All interested manufacturers and rebuilders of refueling nozzles 

I ••. ' 

\ • 

/*T5ESIttQT0in;C0MES: 

To develop and recommend to the SAE Fuel Supply System Subcommittee a more complete set of 

dimensions for a nozzle spout. 

To provide better control and improved refueling quality. (REF: SAE J398 Fuel Tank Filler 

Conditions) 

The new spout/dimensions may also provide a spout for use with on-board refueling vapor 

control 

( 

11. 

|2. 

|3. 

|4. 

|5. 

|6. 

|7. 

|8. 

\ 

—OKJER-OTT75GSINDA- XT£MS 

Introductions 

Approval of minutes from 

April 14, 1988 meeting 

Discuss new nozzle spout 

standard dimensions 

- what should dimension be? 

- what is the rationale ? 

Discuss potential nozzle 

performance standards 

- maximum flow rate? 

- minimum flow rate to trip 

- standard test fill pipe 

and tank and procedure ? 

- other ? 

Formulate responce to ISO 

New Business 

Arrange for next meeting 

Close 

""piisc^rTCESpMsisar 

Glenn Moore 

Glenn Moore 

all 

All 

? 

All 

^ROTHESS 

Consensus 

Consensus 

Consesnus 

Consensus 

-T^HBTAmJCATED • 

5 min. 

10 min. 

30 min. 

30 min. 

30 min. 

15 min. 

5 min. 

1988SAE-F3A/mjh/880930 
P.8 

/ 

1 n 

VE E T I H G A H B 0 U BI C E H E B T / A G S B D A | 

-J 

/ SUBJECT: SAE J398 Refueling Test Procedure Task Force 

MEETING DATE: 

TIME: 

Thursday Nov. 

9:00 

DURATION: 2 hours 

LOCATION: JEUaada_Jjm near Detroit Metro Airport: 

V 

/TSm^iPART^i : ; 

| All interested members of the SAE Fuel Supply System Subcommittee 

% 

1988 CONFIRM BY CALLING: Darlene Crocker 313-649-0422 ' \ 

MEETING LEADER(S): Kieth Kerbv 313-956-1,734 I 

J 

\ 

/T5E^RE)O3m^0HES: 

To develop and recommend to the SAE Fuel Supply System Subcommittee a refueling test 

procedure which will evaluate fill quality under typical conditions encountered by vehicle 

operators in addition to determining the actual refill capacity of a vehicle fuel tank. 

The procedure should provide a method to determine the contribution of the nozzle and the 

vehicle fill system to refueling quality. 

The procedure should have capability to be expanded into an On-Board Refueling Vapor 

Recovery test procedure. 

/ 

11. 

|2. 

1 "3 

1

 J * 

1*. 

6. 

|7. 

|8. 

\ 

6fttoER~DT~K5Hfi>A IfEHS 

Introductions 

Approval of minutes from 

April 14, 1988 meeting 

Discuss fill test procedure 

- what do we want to 

measure ? 

- how should it be measured 

- what equipment is req'd.? 

- what are the steps in 

the process ? 

- what are the acceptance 

criteria ? 

Divide.up the tasks and 

sign up members to draft 

proposals for distribution 

and review before next mtg: 

New Business 

Arrange for next meeting 

Close 

PERSONS REsMtfsraar 

Keith Kerby 

Keith Kerby 

all 

? 

Keith Kirby 

ttRSCESS 

Consensus 

Consensus 

Consensus 

TIME ALLOCATED' 

5 min. 

10 min. 

60 min. 

20 min. 

20 min. 

5 min. 

Ci 

1988SAE-F3B/mjh/880930 
COMPARISON Of PROPOSED SIANOAROS fON.UHltAPEO NOZZIE DIMENSIOHS 

A 

rtmoi. DESCRIPtlON 

EXISTIN8 SIANOARDS 

S U J285 er J1U0 ISO 9158 

PROPOSE D NE U SIANOAR O DIMENSION S 

CHCO-UHEATON BONG-UARNEt HUSKY OPU roeo 

ah/** 

Cfiat 4a(HaSt*ay 

°1 

0 

12 

Noitte Outelde Olaaeter 

OvalIty ef D| 

Nonlt Ujrmma>- (J^nxC 

Non I t Anchor Device Outside Olaaeter 

length of Straight Pert ef Notila Pipe 

Olstance tetween Non I a End and 

flre t Anchor Poaltlen 

Dlatance SatMeen Nettle End and Sensor 

Tfsartnra trim fil l Mi | nil Iin fint i I 

Any Pel ru f Nuaala Bedy 

20.6 *.?/• 7 set 

41.5 aa Bin. 

J285 • 74.0 uln. 

J1K0 - 90.0 aa 

*V Nasils Pips I Lid RaJlui 

•ending Angle ef Noitle Pipe 

21.1 sa awn. 

30 aa aax. 

80/9? aa 

ll<l}<95 sa 

22 aa aax. 

165 a * ain . 

100/250 aa 

I I * * I.S* 

20.9 1 .38 t a 

within .38 na tt* 

,8 aa It 43* chaaf. 

87.3 sa non. 

17.3 aa noa. 

23* • 26* 

20.7 t .18 ea 

93.8 aa noa. 

1U. 1 sa noa. 

17.(6 sa noa. 

M . 9 aa n 

23* • 25* 

20.625 1 .254 sa 

27.5 as noa. 

81 sa ain . 

77.8 aa noa. 

178 sa Bin. 

20* • 25* 

20.9 ± .38 sa 

ulthln .38 aa Ti l 

88.9 ea ain . 

I H aa ma . 

17.(6 aa ma . 

99.3 aa noa. 

23* • 23* 

21.J/20.5 aa 

ulthln die . Malt s 

.5 sa ful l 

30 sa sax. 

100/95 sa 

95/85 sa 

20/ K sa 

Consistent »lth_ 

SjE-JlUO^KfCr' 

<*joot fit* req't. 

150/90 aa 

I I * - 2(* 

Ls mm!***.. Utt^ft oik, np,',«Muf 

, 0*i* 4t*» Lt~) 

J.l.'i/'jtOaS'—a 

AS/.Hf-rt/ 10" 

~}ymla1 /"•**, 

? 

-as;/**'' 

7^"/t*f mit*. 

SAEnottl 

' alh/680928 

Ctiro. dtp«ei«ion« oi «K»>g 

ti lh« mtnultcluiti'l Oiscitlion 
TABLE 1 

SUMMARY STATUS OF DOCUMENT S 

SAE FUEL SUPPLY SYSTEM SUBCOMMITTE E 

Document 

Nunber 

Documen t Title Document Type Official Recorder Statu s - March , 1988 

J285 Gasolin e Dispence r Nozzle Spouts Recommended 

Pract i ce 

G . E . Moore 

O PU Divisio n 

Dove r Corporatio n 

Box 40500 3 

C i nc i nnat i , Oh i o 

513-870-320 2 

45240*500 3 

Reaffirmed . Publishe d 

February 1988 . Work is 

underwa y to develo p mor e 

extensiv e dimensiona l and 

performanc e standard s to 

improve compatibilit y 

uith filler pipes and in 

preparatio n for possible' 

EPA OBRVR regulations . 

J398 Fuel Tank Filler Conditio n • Passenge r Car, Recommende d 

Multi Purpos e Passenge r Vehicl e and Light Practic e 

Duty Trucks . 

Kieth A. Kerby 

Chrysler Corp . 

12800 Chrysler 

CIMS 418-36-0 6 

Highlan d Park, 

313-956-173 4 

D r. 

Nich . 4820 3 

Reaffirmed . Publishe d 

Februar y 1988 . Work is 

beginnin g to includ e 

fiI ling qualit y 

requi rements . 

J829c Fuel Tank Filler Cap and Cap Retainer Standard Willia m G. Crute 317-825-312 1 Reaffirmed . Publishe d 

Stant Mfg. Co . Februar y 1988 . 

1620 Columbi a Ave . 

ConnersviIle , Indiana 47331 

J1114 Fuel Tank Filler Cap and Cap Retaine r 

Threaded Pressur e - Vacuum Type 

Recommende d 

Practic e 

Ui11ia m G. Crute 

(Same as above ) 

5 year review ballot s 

returne d with comments . 

Revise d text, whic h 

included recognitio n of 

uniqu e Japanes e cap 

retaine r designs , was 

reviewe d by members . 

Method s to preven t 

interchangin g Vente d vs 

Non-Vente d cap design s is 

an open issue . 

J1140 Filler Pipes and Opening s 

Fuel Tanks 

of Motor Vehicl e Recommended 

Practic e 

SAEstatu s 

mjh/88100 2 

GIenn E . 

(Same as 

Moore 

above ) 

Reaffirmed . Publishe d 

Februar y 1988 . Wor k is 

underwa y to develo p mor e 

extensiv e dimensiona l 

standardizatio n of spout 

to improve compatibilit y 

with filler pipe s and in 

preparatio n for possibl e 

E PA OBRVR regulations . 

TJ 

o 
P.11 

^,;4J ly ^ 

MAX NOZZLE 

MIN NOZZLE